This is a Toys R Us store in Redwood City, California, but from what you see hanging on the racks here, you think it ought to be called Software R Us.
Most of the titles being sold here are for the Commodore 64, one of the original home computers, but there's a lot of life left in that old machine.
New software titles still coming out for what is still a very large installed user base.
Today, we take a look at an oldie but goodie, the Commodore 64, on this edition of the Computer Chronicles.
Music
The Computer Chronicles is made possible in part by McGraw-Hill, publishers of Byte Magazine, and Bix, the Byte Information Exchange.
In print and online, Byte and Bix serve computer professionals worldwide with detailed information on new hardware, software, and technologies.
Music
Welcome to the Computer Chronicles. I'm Stuart Chaffee. This is Gary Kildall. And Gary, I'm playing this new game from Spectrum Holobyte called Tetris.
The interesting thing about it, it's the first game software sold in the United States written by Russian programmers.
But what's really interesting is here's a hot new piece of software. What machine does it come out for first? The good old Commodore 64.
This is the model T of personal computers, yet people are still buying them. People are writing new software for it. How come?
Well, Stuart, as you know, Jack Tramiel had a Commodore before he moved over to Atari. And Jack's philosophy is to minimize the end user price and just flood the market with the product.
He did it with a $10 calculator in the mid-70s. Remember that one? He did it also with a Commodore 64, less than $200. The competition was five times that price.
It's just a good basic computer for a very affordable price. The result is there's about, what, 7 million of these things in the United States alone.
It provides a real good hardware bed for software writers because they can take the software development costs and amortize it across millions of units.
The result is you get a lot of good software at a very affordable price.
Gary, today we're going to focus on the good old Commodore 64. We'll meet lots of C64 users and see the interesting applications they've developed for the computer.
Now, one of the reasons the Commodore 64 is still around is it got a new operating system a couple of years ago, something called GIS.
We begin today by visiting the man who wrote GIS, Brian Dougherty, at Berkeley Softworks.
The history of personal computers is marked by some spectacular successes and failures.
But the award for popularity must go to the Commodore 64, a little 8-bit machine that refuses to die.
The 64's commercial success and its enormous user base have inspired some software developers to take a second look at the 64's potential.
One of those companies is Berkeley Softworks, next to the university campus in Berkeley, California.
What we did is we looked at these markets, at the Commodore 64 market first and the Apple II.
And basically, it takes a while for people to really push a machine to its total limits.
And one of the things that we really believe in here that the rest of the software world, I think, has only really started to catch on to, is using very sophisticated development tools.
And the net of all that is we're capable now of developing applications for these machines that I don't think people really thought these machines were capable of performing.
Berkeley's most important product is the Geos operating system, a graphic interface for the 64 and 128 that features pull-down menus, icons, and windows.
The new operating system opens the door to some very sophisticated applications, like a spreadsheet called GeoCalc.
And GeoFile, a database with user-designed forms.
There's even a desktop publishing package, something usually requiring big memories and big budgets.
But at Berkeley Softworks, it's all in the code.
Mainly, it's by coding much more efficiently.
The theorem of computer science is any computer program can be implemented by a one-bit Turing machine.
That's actually a theory that's been proven in computer science.
So even this 8-bit processor is capable of doing all the things that a much more expensive computer, like, say, a Macintosh or an IBM PC, is capable of doing.
Now, it may not be able to do it as fast, although we try to make up for the limitations and the capability of the machine by programming more efficiently.
But you can actually do anything with a computer.
Joining us in the studio now is Lucy Morton.
Lucy is a member of the Diablo Valley Commodore 64 users group.
And next to Lucy is Mike Dunsmore, a member of the Commodore Owners of the Peninsula.
Gary.
Mike, the Commodore users groups, they're principally C64 users, or what's the composition?
There are some user groups that are just Commodore 64s.
And there might be some that have an Amiga N64.
Now, you communicate through bulletin boards over modems, is that correct?
Yeah, there's about two or three bulletin boards, or BBSs.
Are those bulletin boards run by C64s sometimes, or no?
Generally, on another machine, but they might have a Commodore 64 database and downloads.
Lucy, it may be a little presumptuous of me, but you don't appear to be the average game player.
He's using a Commodore 64.
Why did you buy a C64?
Well, we have always been interested in computers, and my husband also does some programming.
And the program is very easy on this machine, because you can edit it very easily, and we make mistakes very often.
So you're primarily programming in BASIC, then?
That's right, in BASIC.
Now, you have a program that you wrote that helps you make sweaters, is that correct?
Well, it helps me to chart them.
Making is something else.
Okay.
Can you tell us a little bit about it?
Yes.
This is an interactive program, and as you run through the program, it asks you what style you would like.
And you have to have one thing before you start, which is the number of stitches per inch and the number of rows per inch,
which you get from a swatch like this.
All right.
We've already decided that we're going to make a jacket, and that we're going to have a knit-on band that is knit right in one with a sweater.
And so we're going to have it in ribbing.
And now we have to decide if we want a V-neck.
I think we'll select the V-neck today.
And we're going to put the neck band right in one with the front band.
So the program leads you through this sort of thing.
It leads you through the whole thing, then what kind of sleeve do you want.
Well, let's take no sleeve for this.
Well, let's have a raglan sleeve.
Then it asks do you want long or short, and it will go on with this sort of thing.
Do you want a fitted sleeve or straight sleeve?
And it goes on through all the questions.
Then it will program.
Yeah, what do you end up with?
Show us.
Yes, it will do this on the screen also, but it will end up with something like this, which I guess is what you'd like to see.
Yeah.
This prints out all the directions for a sweater very similar to the one that I have on.
And the one you're wearing you designed using your own program.
Yes, that's right.
That's great.
I'm going to turn to Mike now.
If you could slide the computer over to Mike.
And Mike, you've been using the C64 to do some kind of artwork.
Tell me what you do.
Yeah, I've made a few pictures, screens.
For what particular purpose?
Well, just to make a picture.
Or sometimes I would put them in a – it would be a title screen for a program I was working on or for a menu.
And you use the C64 plus what else?
KoalaPad.
And what kind of software?
There's a KoalaPad – a KoalaPainter.
Okay, can you show us some of the things you do with KoalaPad?
Sure, let me load this KoalaPainter in.
Okay, I have the menu here.
What you would do is you could catalog the disk from that icon.
You could save, get, or name and save.
So we can just click on the get.
Okay, suppose we want to look at WACOs there.
So we click on get and go up to WACO, press the button.
I already have it loaded.
Okay.
This is the picture.
Okay, that's pretty good.
And that is what?
What did you create this for?
This was for a bulletin board that I knew the guy that was running it and he wanted to –
The WACO World Board.
Yeah, the WACO World, yeah.
Okay, can you pull up something else you're in the middle of working on?
Sure, I can just go to swap here, hit that.
This is for a program, a menu program.
All you would see is this screen here, and I could press A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
Suppose you wanted to add some artwork to that screen.
How would you do that?
Okay, there's a part down at the bottom I'm still working on.
Go to zoom here, put the window down here, and touch up these letters, select a color.
So I want to get rid of that green line.
I just do it pixel by pixel.
I could drag the pointer across.
And then you could just paint a graphic in that little space on the right if you wanted to?
Yeah.
This really, it takes – it's time consuming.
Well, one of the interesting things is that this is a video, composite video, same as your little camcorders and so forth.
So you could actually make titles and all sorts of things for your home videos.
An interesting thing, I guess, Mike, I mean you have your sort of graphics design station here for an investment of probably well under $400
compared to some of the expensive systems we've seen.
Well worth that.
Okay, Lucy and Mike, thank you very much.
As we've seen, users groups have been a very important element of the success of the Commodore 64.
We asked Wendy Woods to go visit a users group meeting in Foster City, California, and here's her report.
If you buy for price, you don't always get good service.
And that's especially true for Commodore 64 and 128 owners whose low-cost machines get no support from the mass merchandisers who sell them.
Enter the Commodore users group, like this one in Foster City, California, where people like Ralph Hornbrook try out programs,
trade tips, and just plain get the help that they need.
It's almost impossible to describe the help.
Me being an absolute neophyte three or four years ago, we knew nothing.
Where do you go? What do you do? How do you work these things?
We knew we wanted to get into it, but we didn't know how to get into it.
What we do is we offer an informal hand-holding type meeting where if somebody doesn't understand how to use a computer,
we'll sit down with them, show them how to operate it, show them how to do the various processes that are required to run programs,
and show them how to put everything together.
It's just how to use their computer and use it to productive advantage.
Despite the fact that the more powerful Amiga is now seen at the Commodore users group meetings, interest in the C64 is still going strong.
The price keeps dropping and people keep buying them, which is why it should come as no surprise that membership in groups like this has actually increased over the years.
In Foster City, California, for the Computer Chronicles, I'm Wendy Woods.
With us in the studio now is Malcolm Lowe with the Commodore West users group, and next to Malcolm is Kelly Flock with Electronic Arts.
Kelly, Electronic Arts is obviously a well-known software producer and game software producer.
How important is the Commodore 64 relative to your old marketing plan, like the Apple, relative to Apple IDNPC and so forth?
The Commodore is very important. I would say that it's our second most important format behind the IBM compatible format.
What is it about the Commodore that makes it a good target for a game?
It's probably the leading home computer with its installed base of like 7 million units, and it's very game intensive.
As you know, we make a lot of entertainment software. That's a natural place for us to be.
Malcolm, you've got a program in the tracked mode here in the background running called the Wine Steward.
Can you tell us a little bit about that program?
Yeah, sure. The Wine Steward is a program that's designed to help people who are unfamiliar with purchasing wines
to be able to make a choice based on the food that they're going to have for dinner.
Okay, and this is written for the 64, and it's used in supermarkets, I understand.
That's correct, yes.
Show us how you'd use it.
Yeah, sure. The basic screen is a menu of choices.
You move down the menu using a white button that's on a cabinet, and using the green button, you select a further menu.
Move down to the choice and select again, and you will be given a choice of a total of nine wines.
Okay, so it's making its decision as to what wines to recommend.
That's correct.
And there are three on the first screen, which are budget price wines.
The second screen offers you another three at popular price, and the third at premium price wines.
How do people like this?
They seem to take to it very well indeed.
Any particular reason why you wrote it for the Commodore 64?
Pretty well, an easy computer to program for.
It has lots of features, particularly color, and you can program different fonts for it.
Okay, Kelly, let's turn to you.
Electronic Arts has a new game for the 64 called Skate or Dine.
I want you to tell me about that.
This is a multi-event game where it's kind of like a skateboard simulation where you get to do all the things that you wouldn't normally do unless you…
You don't want to risk your knees and your elbow.
Right, all the fun and none of the scars, as we say.
Okay, Kelly, show me how you play Skate or Dine.
Okay, this is the half pipe, which is a regular skateboarding event, and you do it through a combination of a kick turn, a joystick moves, and button controls.
No need to look at the documentation.
Oh, you do that on purpose?
I wish.
I'm going to try and get up in the air on this one.
All right.
Beautiful.
Almost.
So it's a combination of joystick and the buttons.
Correct.
Oh, nice move.
However…
So there are like 12 different moves you can do in here, and you get points for the variety of your routine, and you get bonus points at the end.
So I got 8,000 points, which is a pretty good score.
You can get up to 15,000 points in here.
That's great.
Kelly, is Skate or Dine available on any machine other than the Commodore 64?
No, right now it's available only on the Commodore.
It was designed on the Commodore and takes advantage of some unique features, such as the sprites and the 16 colors and the three voices.
We're in the process of developing it for the machine.
Now, Kelly, are there more things you can do besides just skating on this ramp?
There's a total of five events.
The ramp is the only event modeled on real skateboarding, but there's a couple of downhill events where you can break bottles and skate through bushes and through a drain pipe.
And there's a pull-joust event where you have three computer opponents and you get to wop them with the little marine bobbins.
It's a pretty fun little game.
And what about the price?
It's just at retail on it.
It's $29.95.
Okay.
And is there something about the Commodore market that you just don't get more than $30 for a game?
As the Commodore market gets older, it becomes more price sensitive.
There's a lot more product developed for it as opposed to, say, a market like the Amiga where there are very few games right now.
So it's going to be something you're deemphasizing after a while?
No.
We make it up in volume.
Okay.
How do we do it?
Volume.
Kelly, Malcolm, thank you very much.
Gary, earlier this week I got a chance to talk to the new president of Commodore, Max Toy, and I started out by asking him if Commodore looks at the 64 as really a game machine.
Well, it would be real easy to say that.
What we have seen in the marketplace is that it's continuing to be used in business.
We're seeing it used on broader applications than we've ever seen before.
Commodore 64 is being used for desktop publishing.
It's being used in the small, tiny business.
It's having a resurgence back in the education marketplace.
So it is much more than a toy marketplace.
Now, I will tell you that we have seen a growth and enhancement in the entertainment marketplace due to some of the software.
But we're still seeing new business software being written for the product as well.
Is it a current machine?
Are people still buying Commodore 64s?
The incredible thing about the Commodore 64 is it does continue to grow, and the market continues to expand.
We sell worldwide between a million and a million and a half Commodore 64s every year.
And what we've seen is a whole new wave of customers coming into the marketplace.
Commodore 64 has always been strong in the small, tiny business marketplace.
And we're seeing a lot of young, first-time users coming into the marketplace.
In fact, I've heard it said that Commodore welcomes more first-time computers users than any other company in the world.
Brand-new software is coming into the marketplace.
And you've got to remember, it's not old technology to the first-time user.
And we're seeing a lot of people using this computer as their first entry into the power of computing.
And therefore, you're bringing new customers in every year coming to this marketplace.
So it is new technology as far as they're concerned.
And we see software people continuing to use the high-performance capabilities for a very high-value dollar.
Who do you see then right now as the competition for the 64?
I mean, is it the lower-cost Apple or is it the Atari ST?
Or are you going up against Nintendo and Sega in a way?
Well, the answer really is probably C, all of the above.
You know, at one end of the marketplace, you compete against the Nintendos, the game machines.
And what we're seeing, our parents are deciding that they would much rather have more than just a game machine for their children to use
and use the entertainment software and take it a step further with education and real use that the child can use it for.
But at the same time, we're still being seen used in business.
We're seeing it used in television production environment as well.
It's a very, very important part of our business.
It's continuing to grow.
We're continuing to spend our research and development dollars on the product and the peripherals and the support capabilities of that product.
So it's a very, very important part of Commodore's existence today and its future.
You look at our greatest assets.
They're an install base.
They're our manufacturing and design capability to build a machine from silicon up.
And the fact that we've got such a strong, active user group community,
the passion that the Commodore users have for the Commodore machines and for what they've been able to do with those machines is absolutely incredible.
And that's exciting.
That's fun.
Joining us in the studio now is Bill Morrow, a Commodore 64 user from Pacifica, California, and behind Bill, Gary, is a table full of synthesizers, all hooked up to a 64.
Bill, you're a very accomplished musician.
What is it about the Commodore 64 that makes it a good music computer?
Number one, it's very inexpensive.
The other thing is the SID chip, and that's the sound interface device.
Okay.
What does the SID chip do?
Well, it makes sound.
It has three musicians in it, you could say.
And these three musicians can play individual notes separate or they can play them simultaneously.
So we can have a flute and a bass and a violin playing all at the same time.
Okay, and you can experiment with the different sounds and mix them and so forth.
Right.
I can study the attack, delay, and sustain and release.
Okay.
Now, you've got some software in here, some composition software called Master Composer, is it?
Show us how that works using the SID chip, Bill.
Well, here you can see I've already entered a few notes over here.
And I have three voices.
I've got my musician number two here.
And you see I have some rest up there.
So I have about, I would say I have 16 positions that I can.
Okay, if you wanted to go ahead now and listen to that music, you would just put in there.
This is using only the SID chip, right?
Right.
No synthesizers.
No, just the Commodore.
Okay.
Okay, you want to listen to it?
Yeah.
All right.
And it's showing the notes that it's playing as it goes along.
And that's all just coming out of the 64.
Exactly, as they're playing.
That's all coming out of the 64, no help.
And they're the notes you had entered before.
Right.
Just a little piece of music you put in there.
Okay, can we turn that off just a second?
And I want to ask you now to give us the whole ballgame here and hook up all your synthesizers
and see if the 64 can handle all of that.
All right.
What do we do to do that?
Okay, first of all, I have the MIDI interface hooked up with the Commodore.
And from the MIDI interface, I go through my MIDI through box, which we can't see.
And from that, I'm hooked up to one, two, three keyboards, which all are multi-channels.
And I have about 14 channels or tracks.
A musician would think of them as tracks, different tracks running.
Then we have the drum machine and we have a sound generator over there, which gives me about 16 tracks.
And what's the software that's controlling all this?
The software is Dr. T's software.
And it's a very powerful software.
You can record with this just like you're recording in a studio.
Like they say, take one and you play.
Or you can insert the notes from...
Okay, how about take one?
Let's hear what it sounds like.
Let's take one and say, okay.
Tell us what you're doing.
I'm doing an original tune that I and James Anderson co-wrote.
Okay.
Let's hear it.
Okay.
That's pretty darn good.
Now, let me ask you.
You're a musician.
What's the pleasure of working with something like the C64?
You had told us before you were thinking about getting out of the music business, but now you're back in it.
Well, the pleasure is I don't have to have a lot of musicians to rehearse with.
I don't have to tell them, play my music simple.
I've got a drummer that this crazy machine will just play all day long.
And most of the time I will wear musicians out.
I like to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse.
And these guys, well, I'm tired.
So as a composer and as a musician, you have more control now.
I have more control.
With pretty little investment, as you said.
Oh, it's a very cheap investment.
Thanks so much for being here, Bill.
That's our look at the Commodore 64.
Hope we'll see you here again next week on the Computer Chronicles.
In the Random Access file this week, there are reports that the new D-BASE IV program has some bugs in the SQL mode.
White Magazine's Microbite service and a company called QuadBase have both reported that responses to SQL query statements
can lead to incorrect reports on the number of records or to an internal error message that prevents the execution of the query.
Ashton Tate says it is investigating the reports.
The Enver virus, which attacked the Macintosh community several months ago,
has been discovered on a Mac CD-ROM disk of public domain software.
The virus infected seven files on the disk, including a HyperCard stack and Stuff-It.
The disk is called the MegaROM and it's produced by Quantum Leap Technology.
The company says it has found and eliminated the virus and that new copies of the disk are clean.
The Enver virus was passed on through a hard disk utility.
It infects applications and eventually causes an unrecoverable systems crash.
The virus reportedly can be detected by the Virus Detective program, but can sneak by Apple's program called VirusRx.
The Russians say they have been hit by their first computer virus.
The virus, known as DOS-62, infected 80 computers at the USSR Academy of Sciences.
The Russians suspect the virus got into the system after some students who attended an international summer computer camp
attempted to copy some infected programs using the academy's computers.
IBM says it has developed a new experimental circuit that could lead to PCs with mainframe speed.
The CMOS circuit is 1 300th the thickness of a human hair.
It can switch on and off 30 billion times a second.
A memory chip using the new circuit could contain up to 256 megabits of information.
Time for this week's software review. Here's Paul Schindler.
In our available minute, we can't settle the age-old question of whether you really need an encyclopedia or not.
But if you decide to do for yourself or your children, which would you rather have?
These 20 volumes or this compact disk?
This is the Electronic Encyclopedia, and it contains all the text from the Academic American Encyclopedia.
That's 9 million words, 30,000 entries, 60 megabytes of data.
You can pay a dollar a minute to access this encyclopedia online via Dow Jones,
or you pay $300 once and have this in your home.
Now, we're not going to show any screens today, because screens full of text aren't very interesting to look at.
But I can tell you that when you give the Electronic Encyclopedia search program a word,
it finds every article in the encyclopedia that includes that word and tells you the headline of the article.
You can read it, print it, or put it in a disk file.
Now, be careful what you do with that disk file, because you don't want to plagiarize this work.
Now, I know in order to use this, you need an $800 CD-ROM player for your PC.
Believe me, this isn't the last CD-ROM program you'll want.
The Electronic Encyclopedia is $300 from Grolier Electronic Publishing in New York.
For the Computer Chronicles, I'm Paul Schindler.
Hewlett Packard has announced that it is introducing a new 386 computer that uses EISA bus architecture.
The bus will enable 32-bit throughput, but will be compatible with existing AT-type boards.
The new HP machine is set to ship in the second half of 1989.
SAC Technologies has introduced a new English-language DOS interface called DOStalk.
It's a piece of LISP software that lets you type in natural language commands for normal DOS functions.
The interface sells for $89.95.
Chartered Electronics of Singapore has introduced Faxility.
It's a black box which attaches to your computer and lets your fax board receive faxes, even if your PC is turned off.
The box will sell for $145. It's awaiting FCC approval.
Finally, what happens when two computerized machines mate?
You get an ATM machine that sells stamps.
Equibank of Pittsburgh is selling the new machines to banks.
And the nice part is you don't even need money.
The ATM will automatically charge your checking account for the stamps you buy.
That's it for this week's Random Access. I'm Cynthia Steele.
The Computer Chronicles is made possible in part by McGraw-Hill, publishers of Byte magazine,
and VIX, the Byte Information Exchange.
In print and online, Byte and VIX serve computer professionals worldwide
with detailed information on new hardware, software, and technologies.
For a transcript of this week's Computer Chronicles, send $4 to PTV Publications,
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