April 191B] THE PEACE CONFERENCE AND AFTER

very pleased with it. Old Clemenceau said it was very good.
He is an old dog. He had heard it all before and so had I. The
position is very serious."

R. : It seems strange that after all the secrecy that has
been observed one of the Plenipotentiaries should appeal to
the peoples of the world over the head of one of his colleagues
with whom he has a difference of opinion, and in particular
to the nation represented by that colleague. Which of the
Fourteen Points does that come under ?

L. G. only laughed. I dashed off to communicate the in-
formation to the newspaper correspondents who had been
anxiously waiting for an hour. Later I telephoned a long
statement to London. Then I returned to the P.M.'s to
dinner, arriving there at 8.45 p.m.. Auckland Geddes and
young Spring-Rice1 were dining. L. G. full of facetious obser-
vations concerning the Press and the crisis. He said to me,
" This is a god-send to you. I saw you try to look miserable
when I told you what had happened. But it was a poor attempt
You were evidently delighted/'

The conversation turned on Wilson.

L. G. : I am one of the few people who think him honest.
I think he has a genuine love of liberty and is genuinely
anxious to improve the position of the under-dog. He is
against the domination of the rich. Occasionally he has to
deviate for political reasons, but every politician has to do that.
He has got to keep afloat in order to give effect to his prin-
ciples. Mr. Gladstone had to do that. Many people called him
an unscrupulous old scoundrel, but when all is said, he stood
for certain things, although in the course of fifty years of
political life he had become very wily in trying to secure his
objects and often had to make temporary sacrifices which he
considered justified by the end in view. (Then, laughing,) Do
you remember the cynical remark," If you want to succeed in
politics, you must keep your conscience well under control " ?

Somebody said, " Well, that would not give------much

trouble."

L. G. (laughing) : I don't agree. But he is a very fine

1Son of Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, British Ambassador to the United States,
1912-18,

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