WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:25.000 You can't do business with Hitler. 00:30.000 --> 00:46.000 We are now at war. There are but two alternatives. Total victory or total defeat. There can be no such thing as a military stalemate that would result in the survival of Hitlerism. 00:46.000 --> 01:00.000 That is the opinion of a man who knows. Douglas Miller, for 15 years commercial attache to the American Embassy in Berlin, presenting a radio series based on Mr. Miller's book. You can't do business with Hitler. 01:00.000 --> 01:13.000 Episode 4. Two for me, one for you. 01:13.000 --> 01:23.000 This is Douglas Miller speaking. I want to talk to you about Nazi barter methods. You know what barter is. You give me your goods and I give something just as valuable in exchange. 01:23.000 --> 01:35.000 A $50 radio for a $50 vacuum cleaner. Fair enough. And even exchange is no robbery. One for you and one for me. But Nazi barter is something different. 01:35.000 --> 01:49.000 Two for the Nazis and one for their customers. Or perhaps three for the Nazis and nothing for the customers. In other words, the Nazis used barter as a weapon of world conquest, attacking the trade markets of the world with its unscrupulous weapons. 01:49.000 --> 02:00.000 Just as they attacked their neighbors with dive bombers and 50 ton tanks. So let's get back to the beginning. When Hitler came to power, he announced Germany would trade with the world on a barter basis. 02:00.000 --> 02:09.000 That sounded all right and American businessmen wanted to give it a try. In 1934, the American Chamber of Commerce invited me to a meeting in Berlin. 02:09.000 --> 02:17.000 The meeting was called for the purpose of appointing a committee of American businessmen to negotiate barter deals with the Nazi Ministry of Economics. 02:17.000 --> 02:32.000 As far as I'm concerned, there's been too much spunkum about this whole business. Let's get down to brass tacks. You men know me and what I stand for. I'm a hard-headed businessman and I'm proud of it. 02:32.000 --> 02:49.000 Well, I've seen my business here in Germany cut to pieces since this fellow Hitler took over and I guess you're all in the same boat. Well, it all boils down to this. The Nazis can't buy American goods because they haven't any money. 02:49.000 --> 03:03.000 What are they building their war machine with? The garter pond? That, sir, is very funny. But we need more than 20 cracks to put our business on the street. 03:03.000 --> 03:17.000 The point I'm making is that the Germans won't pay off cash for our goods, whether they have money for their army or not. But by heavens, they have war to barter with us and if we have any brains, we'll look into it. 03:17.000 --> 03:30.000 What's the difference between a cash deal and a barter deal anyway? It all comes right down to the same thing. You trade your goods to the Germans, they give your German goods in exchange. 03:30.000 --> 03:37.000 You sell the German goods back home for American dollars and there you are. You make your profit barter and over. 03:37.000 --> 03:49.000 Gentlemen, I know we appointed a special barter committee. The committee will assist members in negotiating barter deals with the German Ministry of Economics. 03:49.000 --> 03:57.000 Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. The chair recognizes Mr. Miller. Gentlemen, Douglas Miller, our commercial artist, Jack. 03:57.000 --> 04:15.000 Gentlemen, you are apparently enthused in Mr. Brownell's motion that we set up a barter committee. I have no intention of being a wet blanket, but I must warn you that doing business with the Nazis either on a barter or any other basis is not going to be as profitable as you might hope it to be. 04:15.000 --> 04:28.000 Please realize that the Nazi policy is one of deliberate discrimination against American goods. And therefore, on Mr. Chairman, Mr. Brownell, Mr. Miller has the floor. 04:28.000 --> 04:39.000 That doesn't mean he can pull us up to the neck with a lot of rubbish. Mr. Miller, you don't seem to realize we have to eat a barter with the Nazis or go out of business. 04:39.000 --> 04:45.000 Mr. Brownell, it's quite possible you will save money in the long run if you do go out of business. 04:45.000 --> 04:52.000 Oh, calm down, Mr. Miller. To hear you talk, one would take Hitler Boys and American businessmen in oil and eat them for dinner with salt and pepper. 04:52.000 --> 05:03.000 Mr. Brownell, I'm only trying to point out that men who rule their country with blackjacks and submachine guns will think nothing at all of cheating American businessmen. 05:03.000 --> 05:09.000 You imagine they'll give you a square deal? What? Well, they'll very probably have your pants. 05:09.000 --> 05:15.000 Mr. Miller, if the Nazis will pay me courts and 10 percent, they can have my pants. 05:15.000 --> 05:23.000 Gentlemen, gentlemen, Mr. Miller is obviously confusing politics with business. 05:23.000 --> 05:29.000 Mr. Brownell, I'm afraid the same traits that make the Nazis so difficult to deal with politically make them choosers in business. 05:29.000 --> 05:37.000 Ah, Tommy Rocks. Gentlemen, I made a motion that we try to fix up some barter deals with the Germans. I'd like to have your response to that motion. 05:37.000 --> 05:44.000 Gentlemen, is there anyone any objections to taking a vote on Mr. Brownell's motion? 05:44.000 --> 05:49.000 Very well. All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. 05:49.000 --> 06:03.000 Aye. 06:03.000 --> 06:10.000 And so the motion was passed. I had been quite willing that American businessmen attempt to barter with the Nazis. 06:10.000 --> 06:15.000 I had only wanted to warn the Chamber of Commerce not to pin their hopes too heavily upon the success of such deals. 06:15.000 --> 06:19.000 However, the committee was organized and Mr. Brownell was elected as chairman. 06:19.000 --> 06:22.000 A few weeks later, the committee negotiated its first deal. 06:22.000 --> 06:31.000 An American walnut grower named Davidson was to barter $100,000 worth of walnuts for $100,000 worth of German barbed wire. 06:31.000 --> 06:37.000 Mr. Brownell asked me to go to the German Ministry of Economics with Mr. Davidson to help him arrange the final details. 06:37.000 --> 06:43.000 Unfortunately, I was detained. When I arrived at the ministry, Davidson was there before me. 06:43.000 --> 06:46.000 He and a Nazi official were engaged in a violent argument. 06:46.000 --> 06:56.000 Herr Miller, I'm so glad you're at me. Will you explain to your countrymen that I cannot ignore national socialistic regulations just to please him? 06:56.000 --> 06:58.000 Doug, Doug, he's trying to hijack. 06:58.000 --> 07:00.000 Hijack? What does that mean? That is not an English word. 07:00.000 --> 07:02.000 You're darn right it isn't. It's an American word. 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 Herr Davidson, will you please stop? 07:04.000 --> 07:09.000 Gentlemen, gentlemen, please. What is all about? He's trying to back out of the deep. 07:09.000 --> 07:12.000 We are not backing out of nothing. You are the one who is backing out. 07:12.000 --> 07:14.000 Gentlemen, please. 07:14.000 --> 07:16.000 Now let's talk this over quietly and calmly. 07:16.000 --> 07:23.000 Doug, let me explain. I came here in good faith to save my $100,000 worth of walnuts for the same value in German barbed wire. 07:23.000 --> 07:24.000 Follow me. Yes, go on. 07:24.000 --> 07:29.000 Well, now this fellow here tells me I have to put up $200,000 bucks cash on the side. 07:29.000 --> 07:37.000 Yes, David. How many times must I tell you that it is not on the side? It is all part of the same deed. 07:37.000 --> 07:38.000 Not for my money, it is. 07:38.000 --> 07:42.000 Now just a minute, gentlemen. Please. 07:42.000 --> 07:44.000 Let me see if I understand this. 07:44.000 --> 07:53.000 Herr Davidson, you came here expecting to trade $100,000 worth of walnuts for $100,000 worth of German barbed wire, right? 07:53.000 --> 07:59.000 That's right. But you understand my chief purpose wasn't to buy barbed wire. My chief purpose was to sell my walnuts. 07:59.000 --> 08:02.000 I'm only taking the barbed wire in the hope that I can sell it at a profit back home. 08:02.000 --> 08:14.000 Yes, yes. I understand that. Now then, L.B. Mueller is quite willing to make such a trade if you will in the kitchen buy an extra $200,000 worth of barbed wire and pay for it in cash. 08:14.000 --> 08:17.000 Yeah, naturally. It's a serious thing. 08:17.000 --> 08:18.000 That's what you think. 08:18.000 --> 08:23.000 Mr. Davidson, I'm just beginning to see the trouble here. You've made a mistake. 08:23.000 --> 08:25.000 That's what I have been saying to you. 08:25.000 --> 08:29.000 Now, wait a minute. How do you figure I made a mistake? 08:29.000 --> 08:36.000 Well, didn't you expect to put up cash? Nazi regulations don't permit Americans to secure barter deals on an even basis. 08:36.000 --> 08:45.000 The Nazis pay their share in good, yes. But you're permitted to pay only one third of your share in good. You must pay the balance, the other two thirds in cash. 08:45.000 --> 08:55.000 Oh, oh. I've said about enough. You think I'm absolutely crazy? Or is it just this stuffed brown shir here taking me for a fuck? 08:55.000 --> 08:56.000 What is this stuffing, sir? 08:56.000 --> 09:02.000 They're not paying me cash for my wallets. Why should I pay two thirds cash for their rotten barbed wire? 09:02.000 --> 09:09.000 I don't know anything about the barbed wire system. I don't mind trying to sell wire that I got from my wallets. Maybe I couldn't sell the wallets anyway. 09:09.000 --> 09:16.000 But $200,000 bucks cash for a lot of barbed wire I have any use for? Utterly impossible. It's fantastic. 09:16.000 --> 09:20.000 Well, but what did you expect, Davidson? Didn't the barter committee explain the Nazi regulations? 09:20.000 --> 09:21.000 No, they didn't. 09:21.000 --> 09:25.000 Well, they should have. Look, John, let's look at the whole thing. 09:25.000 --> 09:27.000 I'm sorry I cost you so much money. 09:27.000 --> 09:32.000 And as for you, Mr. V. Mueller, well, all I can say is that the deal's off. Good day, John. 09:32.000 --> 09:35.000 Here, Davidson. Just one minute. 09:35.000 --> 09:37.000 Huh? What is it? 09:37.000 --> 09:44.000 Why won't you take our barbed wire? It is very high quality, you understand, and you could totally sell it in America. 09:44.000 --> 09:48.000 Mr. V. Mueller, the market for barbed wire in America is very limited. 09:48.000 --> 09:51.000 But there are hundreds of things you can do with barbed wire. 09:51.000 --> 09:52.000 Name what? 09:52.000 --> 10:00.000 Well, in the right, we use thousands of feet of barbed wire to tent in concentration camps. 10:00.000 --> 10:07.000 Mr. V. Mueller, I think you have unconsciously stumbled onto the fundamental reason why you and I can't do business. 10:07.000 --> 10:25.000 You see, we don't believe in concentration camps in America. 10:25.000 --> 10:30.000 This was one of the first barter deals any American had attempted to negotiate with the Nazis. 10:30.000 --> 10:33.000 And as you've seen, the deal fell through. 10:33.000 --> 10:41.000 Over a period of several months, various American businessmen who had American goods they hoped to be exchanged for German goods were sent to the Ministry of Economics. 10:41.000 --> 10:44.000 But it was always the same story. 10:44.000 --> 10:49.000 Americans had to conform to Nazi regulations, and this, they discovered, was impossible. 10:49.000 --> 10:54.000 If you want proof of all of this, get a copy of the magazine Science Atlantic Trade in November 1934. 10:54.000 --> 10:58.000 This magazine was published by the American Chamber of Commerce in Berlin. 10:58.000 --> 11:03.000 See page two and read the story as told by the businessmen themselves. 11:03.000 --> 11:08.000 Well, the members of the barter committee finally gave up and discussed, except Mr. Brownell, the chairman. 11:08.000 --> 11:11.000 He was something of a diehard. 11:11.000 --> 11:14.000 I ran into him later at another meeting of the American Chamber of Commerce. 11:14.000 --> 11:19.000 The meeting had just ended, and the crowd was leaving the hall. 11:19.000 --> 11:23.000 Well, hello there, Mr. Brownell. How's the barter committee coming along? 11:23.000 --> 11:25.000 Oh, hello there, Mr. Mueller. 11:25.000 --> 11:30.000 Well, some of the members are a little impatient, dropping out, you know, but we're not doing so badly. 11:30.000 --> 11:33.000 Oh, come, come now. Don't you think it's a hopeless proposition? 11:33.000 --> 11:38.000 I wouldn't say that. We have completed a few deals, Mueller. Very satisfactory deals, too. 11:38.000 --> 11:43.000 Where were those deals, small affairs involving only a few thousand dollars at the most? 11:43.000 --> 11:46.000 Every deal that really amounted to anything failed, didn't it? 11:46.000 --> 11:51.000 Well, yes, but that wasn't my fault. The deals I had in mind were very good. 11:51.000 --> 11:54.000 The only trouble was they didn't conform to Nazi regulations. 11:54.000 --> 11:59.000 Well, that's the point. No deal satisfactory to Americans ever will conform to Nazi regulations. 11:59.000 --> 12:02.000 Oh, I don't know about that. Hey, Doug, just a minute. 12:02.000 --> 12:07.000 Oh, hello, Dudley. Brownell, you know Mr. Dudley? 12:07.000 --> 12:10.000 He's a representative here, one of our American machine tool manufacturers. 12:10.000 --> 12:12.000 Yes, we've met. 12:12.000 --> 12:16.000 Mueller and I were just having a little argument about barter, Mr. Dudley. 12:16.000 --> 12:21.000 Barter? Don't enter that word to me. My company just completed a barter deal with the Nazis, and I'm still groggy. 12:21.000 --> 12:24.000 Oh, you don't say. Was it a big deal? 12:24.000 --> 12:28.000 Big. Well, it went to the tune of about one million dollars on our side of the ledger. 12:28.000 --> 12:34.000 Ah, there you are, you femurist. Now, what have you got to say about barter deals? I was right all along, wasn't I? 12:34.000 --> 12:38.000 Ah, not so fast. Dudley, what did you get in exchange for that million dollars? 12:38.000 --> 12:41.000 Two hundred thousand canaries. 12:41.000 --> 12:43.000 Did you say canaries? 12:43.000 --> 12:49.000 I said canaries. The Brownsher told us a bill for a million dollars worth of machinery. So we took the canaries in payment. 12:49.000 --> 12:55.000 Why, in the name of pepper, you wouldn't ask that if your firm owned a subsidiary in Germany, as my firm does. 12:55.000 --> 12:56.000 You mean? 12:56.000 --> 13:03.000 I mean we're in no position to bargain. After all, we don't want our properties confiscated. 13:03.000 --> 13:30.000 You can't do business with Hitler. 13:30.000 --> 13:37.000 You have been listening to episode four in a radio series entitled You Can't Do Business with Hitler. 13:37.000 --> 13:47.000 This series is based upon the actual experiences of Douglas Miller, who was, for fifteen years, commercial attache to the American Embassy in Berlin. 13:47.000 --> 13:53.000 Listen to the next episode in this series, which is entitled Mass Murder. 13:53.000 --> 14:01.000 The program was prepared and directed by the author for emergency in Washington. 14:53.000 --> 15:03.000 .