WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:25.480 In the olden days, a pirate looked like this, and he stole treasure, jewelry, gold and silver. 00:25.480 --> 00:30.080 Nowadays, a pirate doesn't need a black eye patch, a sword or even a wooden leg. 00:30.080 --> 00:34.160 All you need is a floppy disk and maybe a little ingenuity. 00:34.160 --> 00:59.920 We'll take a look at software piracy, coming up on The Computer Chronicles. 00:59.920 --> 01:05.120 The Computer Chronicles is brought to you in part by McGraw-Hill, publishers of Popular 01:05.120 --> 01:10.760 Computing, the magazine that gives readers an understanding of the technology and applications 01:10.760 --> 01:21.840 of microcomputers and software in office, home and classroom. 01:21.840 --> 01:23.120 Welcome to The Computer Chronicles. 01:23.120 --> 01:25.200 I'm Stuart Shiffey, and this is Gary Kildall. 01:25.200 --> 01:27.320 And Gary, the subject today is software piracy. 01:27.320 --> 01:31.600 Now, Gary, I know a guy who at home has this tremendous collection of software disks piled 01:31.600 --> 01:35.360 high, and he proudly boasts to me, I didn't buy one of them. 01:35.360 --> 01:38.840 Now, from your perspective as somebody in the software business, how serious is the 01:38.840 --> 01:39.840 piracy problem? 01:39.840 --> 01:42.280 Well, Stuart, it's a very serious issue. 01:42.280 --> 01:45.680 The problem is that as a software producer, you can't tell how much you're going to sell 01:45.680 --> 01:47.480 versus how much is going to be stolen. 01:47.480 --> 01:50.720 And as a result, the prices just go up to take care of that difference. 01:50.720 --> 01:55.840 Now, if we can control piracy, then we can control the customer base we're working with, 01:55.840 --> 01:56.840 and we know how many we're going to sell. 01:56.840 --> 02:00.480 And as a result, that the industry will stabilize at probably a lower price level, much like 02:00.480 --> 02:01.760 the record industry. 02:01.760 --> 02:05.480 So I think the issue right now in terms of mass marketing of software is just how much 02:05.480 --> 02:08.080 can you control in terms of the piracy issue. 02:08.080 --> 02:09.080 Okay. 02:09.080 --> 02:11.040 On today's program, we're going to meet a software pirate. 02:11.040 --> 02:14.600 We'll meet somebody who sells a utility that helps you defeat copy protection. 02:14.600 --> 02:18.000 We'll meet a lawyer who raided one of the largest pirate groups here in the Bay Area, 02:18.000 --> 02:20.080 and we'll talk to a software company executive. 02:20.080 --> 02:24.400 Now, some people say one of the problems with piracy is that software is so expensive in 02:24.400 --> 02:25.400 the first place. 02:25.400 --> 02:26.640 Why is it so expensive? 02:26.640 --> 02:30.320 We have a report. 02:30.320 --> 02:35.240 Behind much of the discussion about the rights and wrongs of piracy is a recurring question. 02:35.240 --> 02:37.920 Why do software programs cost so much? 02:37.920 --> 02:43.200 What can possibly justify the $500 price tag on a floppy disk that took a few minutes to 02:43.200 --> 02:44.480 duplicate? 02:44.480 --> 02:48.780 In fact, except for the box it comes in, it looks like any other floppy disk. 02:48.780 --> 02:53.320 But for the publisher, the production costs of that disk are easily measured. 02:53.320 --> 02:56.480 The biggest expense, of course, is in programming development. 02:56.480 --> 03:01.600 A top category word processor can take a year and a half of development time, relying on 03:01.600 --> 03:03.880 a team of over 60 people. 03:03.880 --> 03:06.360 The development team shares activities. 03:06.360 --> 03:12.160 Source code development, screens and help systems, and instruction manuals are all interdependent 03:12.160 --> 03:14.000 at various stages. 03:14.000 --> 03:19.520 Prestigious software houses also stress their documentation and on-screen tutorials, all 03:19.520 --> 03:23.800 part of extensive customer product training. 03:23.800 --> 03:28.000 The impetus for the product's design comes from a large marketing department. 03:28.000 --> 03:34.640 Advertising, package design, and merchandising devices add another expensive layer of cost. 03:34.640 --> 03:40.320 And when you add the extra costs of disk reproduction, typesetting, printing, and distribution, 03:40.320 --> 03:46.000 the overall cost of getting the program to the customer rises to several million dollars. 03:46.000 --> 03:51.140 To an advanced user who buys software by word of mouth or by trying out a friend's copy, 03:51.140 --> 03:56.240 the elaborate ad campaigns and customer coddling may seem like overkill. 03:56.240 --> 04:00.640 On the other hand, the first-time computer user may demand it. 04:00.640 --> 04:04.680 In any case, the expenses are considerable and genuine. 04:04.680 --> 04:21.040 But for the user, that doesn't make the prices of software any easier to pay. 04:21.040 --> 04:22.680 With us now is Mark Pump. 04:22.680 --> 04:26.680 Mark is the president of AlphaLogic Business Systems, makers of a utility called LockSmith 04:26.680 --> 04:28.920 that helps you copy software. 04:28.920 --> 04:32.720 And next to Mark is Smith McKeithin, vice president of Activision, a company which makes 04:32.720 --> 04:35.600 software and probably would rather not have it copied. 04:35.600 --> 04:36.600 Gary? 04:36.600 --> 04:42.720 You know, Stuart, there is a difference between the audio and video dubbing or copying business, 04:42.720 --> 04:50.160 I suppose, and the software industry because the 20th copy of a program or data is just 04:50.160 --> 04:52.080 as good as the very first copy. 04:52.080 --> 04:56.800 Now I think of something like Activision as really being in the ROM cartridge business, 04:56.800 --> 04:58.120 but I guess you've moved away from that. 04:58.120 --> 05:01.480 How do you view the whole piracy issue from Activision's standpoint? 05:01.480 --> 05:06.800 Well, Gary, the issue of piracy is one of our intellectual property being essentially 05:06.800 --> 05:14.000 ripped off by people who haven't put the intellectual or financial investment into creating that. 05:14.000 --> 05:21.240 It takes from 1,500 to 2,000 hours to create a piece of quality software, and that's an 05:21.240 --> 05:26.160 investment just like the investment an author makes in writing a book or a producer or director 05:26.160 --> 05:28.400 makes in putting on a movie. 05:28.400 --> 05:34.080 And when someone takes that product and copies it and tries to market for cents on the dollar, 05:34.080 --> 05:38.800 it means that the creator of the software, such as a David Crane in our business, is 05:38.800 --> 05:39.800 working for nothing. 05:39.800 --> 05:43.600 Well, do you differentiate that between somebody who's going to copy and then resell versus 05:43.600 --> 05:45.760 somebody who's going to copy and give to their friend? 05:45.760 --> 05:50.240 No, I don't make any difference between the two, because I believe that both people suffer 05:50.240 --> 05:52.760 from essentially ethical blinders. 05:52.760 --> 05:58.080 It's as if I took a Porsche that I never wanted to drive, but I slipped it past a security 05:58.080 --> 05:59.080 guard. 05:59.080 --> 06:02.560 Even if I didn't drive it or if I gave it to a friend, that would be stealing. 06:02.560 --> 06:06.140 And that's the same thing that happens to a company like Activision when someone uses 06:06.140 --> 06:09.040 its software in an unauthorized manner. 06:09.040 --> 06:15.120 Okay, now, Mark, from your side, don't users sometimes have a legitimate need to make copies 06:15.120 --> 06:16.120 of a program? 06:16.120 --> 06:22.320 Yes, without a doubt, the user has a legitimate need to make a copy of a program. 06:22.320 --> 06:27.000 If he's using his original copy and for some reason the copy becomes unusable, he's left 06:27.000 --> 06:33.640 without a program that his business might very well depend on for its day-to-day operations. 06:33.640 --> 06:39.200 Being without the software is in many ways being without an important part of his company. 06:39.200 --> 06:43.000 Well, it seems like there's also just a very basic need that some people have in taking 06:43.000 --> 06:45.440 a diskette and copying it over to hard disk. 06:45.440 --> 06:49.640 It's a very simple operation that you need to do a lot of times, say, on an IBM PC. 06:49.640 --> 06:50.640 Yes. 06:50.640 --> 06:51.720 Okay, now tell us about Locksmith. 06:51.720 --> 06:52.720 What does it do? 06:52.720 --> 06:59.560 Well, Locksmith is a program that makes an identical copy of the original disk, unlike 06:59.560 --> 07:03.680 you might have heard about breaking a piece of software, breaking the protection, which 07:03.680 --> 07:09.280 involves removing the protection and in most cases removing any serial numbers and copyright 07:09.280 --> 07:11.720 notices that the software contains. 07:11.720 --> 07:17.360 Locksmith makes an identical copy, retains the protection, it retains the copyright notices, 07:17.360 --> 07:18.360 retains the serial numbers. 07:18.360 --> 07:23.000 It makes an identical copy, an identical protected copy of the original piece of software. 07:23.000 --> 07:27.600 Okay, now, Mark, I think you have here in the Apple a piece of software which we don't 07:27.600 --> 07:30.920 want to identify, but you're going to show us this piece, you're going to make a copy 07:30.920 --> 07:35.920 of it with Locksmith, even though we otherwise could not make a copy of this disk, right? 07:35.920 --> 07:40.600 Yes, Locksmith, because of the way it works, it is not a very fast utility. 07:40.600 --> 07:45.480 It takes between eight and ten minutes to make a backup copy of a piece of software. 07:45.480 --> 07:50.440 This does not easily lend itself to the pirate who needs to make copies much faster. 07:50.440 --> 07:55.200 Typically, the pirate, for this reason, will break the software. 07:55.200 --> 07:59.120 Still an eight minute backup is, for many people, a lot cheaper, I guess, than going 07:59.120 --> 08:01.320 out and paying the extra forty dollars, right? 08:01.320 --> 08:04.560 Well, yes, it is of course used for that. 08:04.560 --> 08:08.000 The idea of the backup diskette is you make one backup, store the original away and use 08:08.000 --> 08:09.000 the backup. 08:09.000 --> 08:13.240 When your backup becomes unusable, you have the original to make another backup copy. 08:13.240 --> 08:20.960 Isn't that the real issue, that if you could control the use of, say, Locksmith, then things 08:20.960 --> 08:21.960 would be a lot better. 08:21.960 --> 08:26.560 This is only used for backup purposes, not used for distribution of additional software. 08:26.560 --> 08:31.560 So some people would say that Locksmith would be, say, a pirate's tool for copying software. 08:31.560 --> 08:33.280 What would be your view of that? 08:33.280 --> 08:37.600 Well, in our advertisements, and in fact in the manual, we encourage users to use it only 08:37.600 --> 08:38.840 for legal purposes. 08:38.840 --> 08:43.080 Of course, there are people who use it for pirating, even though there are much better 08:43.080 --> 08:45.000 ways to pirate software than using Locksmith. 08:45.000 --> 08:49.320 Okay, show us how you make a copy of this uncopiable disk then. 08:49.320 --> 08:55.520 Basically, you identify the disk drive that your original is in, the disk drive that your 08:55.520 --> 09:02.280 copy diskette is in, the range of tracks that you want to copy, a few other questions answered, 09:02.280 --> 09:06.360 a prompt here to insert the disks, and it starts copying. 09:06.360 --> 09:09.960 Now that seems awfully easy, Smith. 09:09.960 --> 09:12.840 From your point of view, how do you react to a product like that? 09:12.840 --> 09:17.140 Well, the problem with a product like this is that this kind of product just facilitates 09:17.140 --> 09:21.600 people getting into intellectual property and stealing it. 09:21.600 --> 09:23.600 It makes it much too simple for them to do it. 09:23.600 --> 09:29.080 And if, in fact, a user of, say, one of Activision's products has a problem with this product, 09:29.080 --> 09:33.760 he only need call us on an 800 toll-free line or send the damaged product in and we'll replace 09:33.760 --> 09:34.760 it. 09:34.760 --> 09:36.640 We have a year-long warranty on our products. 09:36.640 --> 09:38.020 We stand behind them. 09:38.020 --> 09:42.440 We receive over 3,000 pieces of mail a week from people who use Activision products and 09:42.440 --> 09:44.560 want to know about upcoming products. 09:44.560 --> 09:49.360 And these people have formed a bond with us, which we will not ignore by not giving them 09:49.360 --> 09:50.360 good service. 09:50.360 --> 09:54.600 And all the responsible software manufacturers follow that same trend. 09:54.600 --> 10:00.240 So there's no need for a product like this in the event of someone having a damaged product 10:00.240 --> 10:01.240 that they want to use. 10:01.240 --> 10:05.080 Well, again, I think it goes back to the issue that maybe the software providers, people 10:05.080 --> 10:10.000 who write the software initially, aren't really allowing for the possibility of a backup for 10:10.000 --> 10:11.000 a legitimate user. 10:11.000 --> 10:15.040 At least, I've run into that particular problem myself, that we go back to the diskette over 10:15.040 --> 10:16.040 the hard disk. 10:16.040 --> 10:20.080 There's programs I just simply can't use because I have no way of getting them onto the hard 10:20.080 --> 10:23.680 disk system, which is where all my programs are located. 10:23.680 --> 10:25.320 But have you talked to the manufacturer about that? 10:25.320 --> 10:26.320 Oh, sure. 10:26.320 --> 10:29.760 And then they say, well, they have no way of controlling the distribution of that kind 10:29.760 --> 10:30.760 of thing. 10:30.760 --> 10:35.120 A backup, again, opens up the possibility of illegitimate copying. 10:35.120 --> 10:41.760 So there may be a tension in the system, but the problem is that a product like this and 10:41.760 --> 10:47.080 the wide use, the wider than we like to have use of illegitimate copies, really can, in 10:47.080 --> 10:54.040 the long range, spoil the production of creative intellectual product for everybody. 10:54.040 --> 10:55.640 And that's a zero-sum game. 10:55.640 --> 10:57.400 Well, Mark, what about that? 10:57.400 --> 11:01.840 I mean, do you have any feedback on how your product is, in fact, being used? 11:01.840 --> 11:06.600 Well, without programs like Locksmith, pirating would, in fact, still exist. 11:06.600 --> 11:11.260 Sophisticated computer users, so-called hackers, don't need programs like Locksmith. 11:11.260 --> 11:16.760 They have the technical expertise to break or remove the protection from the software 11:16.760 --> 11:21.840 without actually making an identical copy of the original disk. 11:21.840 --> 11:24.960 I'd say that's true for really dyed-in-the-wool pirates. 11:24.960 --> 11:28.320 But I think that they're, I mean, I've experienced this myself because I have a 15-year-old son 11:28.320 --> 11:29.320 who's involved. 11:29.320 --> 11:32.880 I've tried very hard to keep him from copying the software, and he's very good at that. 11:32.880 --> 11:38.280 But I see a community of, say, relatively unsophisticated users of that age group that 11:38.280 --> 11:40.560 do some copying. 11:40.560 --> 11:44.800 And I don't think, in many cases, they would be doing it if they didn't have programs available 11:44.800 --> 11:47.000 to unlock some of these things. 11:47.000 --> 11:52.160 Well, one of the largest users of Locksmith is schools. 11:52.160 --> 11:55.400 Educational software is not cheap. 11:55.400 --> 11:59.840 And teachers feel reluctant to take their only copy of an expensive piece of software, 11:59.840 --> 12:04.520 put it in their students' hands, and allow it to be either stolen or damaged by sharp 12:04.520 --> 12:07.080 objects, magnetic fields, what have you. 12:07.080 --> 12:10.860 Most schools that buy Locksmith use Locksmith to archive. 12:10.860 --> 12:14.800 They make a backup copy of the original, archive the original, and let the students use the 12:14.800 --> 12:15.800 backup copy. 12:15.800 --> 12:16.800 Thank you, gentlemen. 12:16.800 --> 12:20.040 Now, in just a minute, we're going to meet Captain Crunch, one of the original pirates. 12:20.040 --> 12:24.040 We'll meet a current-day pirate, and we'll meet a lawyer who busted the West Coast Computer 12:24.040 --> 12:26.560 Connection, an alleged band of pirates. 12:26.560 --> 12:40.400 That's coming up next. 12:40.400 --> 12:44.080 With us now is Captain Crunch, whose real name is John Draper. 12:44.080 --> 12:48.160 John was called a pirate when that referred to stealing long-distance telephone calls 12:48.160 --> 12:49.640 rather than software. 12:49.640 --> 12:51.560 And sitting next to John is Neil Smith. 12:51.560 --> 12:55.200 Neil is a partner in the firm of Limbuck, Limbuck & Sutton, and Neil might be called 12:55.200 --> 12:56.720 a pirate buster these days. 12:56.720 --> 12:57.720 Gary? 12:57.720 --> 13:03.240 Yeah, John, I guess the phone-freaking of the 60s is sort of the computer hacking of 13:03.240 --> 13:04.880 today's date. 13:04.880 --> 13:09.720 And you were, I guess, what we'd call a phone cracker, and you got into the system and so 13:09.720 --> 13:10.720 forth. 13:10.720 --> 13:12.120 I guess you'd be considered a pirate in those days. 13:12.120 --> 13:14.680 Now, you've moved into being a software vendor now. 13:14.680 --> 13:16.040 You're the author of EasyWriter. 13:16.040 --> 13:18.000 You're working on a lot of Mac software. 13:18.000 --> 13:19.560 How do you feel about software piracy? 13:19.560 --> 13:22.400 Well, it's definitely a problem. 13:22.400 --> 13:26.920 And the problem is probably because of the very high cost of software. 13:26.920 --> 13:30.840 And the reason for that, of course, is that programmers can't work for nothing, and the 13:30.840 --> 13:33.440 cost of development is very, very high. 13:33.440 --> 13:39.360 And with that in consideration, this is the reason why a lot of programmers are reluctant 13:39.360 --> 13:40.920 to come out with good software. 13:40.920 --> 13:44.280 Freeware seems to be the best way to go all around. 13:44.280 --> 13:49.600 It eliminates a lot of the problems caused by the copy protection thing. 13:49.600 --> 13:52.440 Now, Freeware has the problem of the support around it, though. 13:52.440 --> 13:53.440 Right, exactly. 13:53.440 --> 13:57.040 And you must really support the product in order to come out with Freeware. 13:57.040 --> 13:58.040 Takes a lot of dedication. 13:58.040 --> 14:03.000 And only for those people that mail in their $20 or $30 checks will get the support and 14:03.000 --> 14:04.560 the licensing to run the program. 14:04.560 --> 14:07.600 Neil, would you agree about this problem of expensive software? 14:07.600 --> 14:11.280 Well, I think we have somewhat of a chicken or egg problem, because if you look at the 14:11.280 --> 14:15.680 marketing of software, you'd find that one of the reasons software has to be marketed 14:15.680 --> 14:20.560 so high is to recoup those high development costs, the amount of money it takes to develop 14:20.560 --> 14:24.960 that software in order to get good software that has the bugs worked out. 14:24.960 --> 14:26.560 Or even a reasonable ad campaign. 14:26.560 --> 14:28.520 Well, that's right, to do that. 14:28.520 --> 14:34.440 And if the manufacturer could count on everybody who uses programs buying one, that cost could 14:34.440 --> 14:35.640 drop dramatically. 14:35.640 --> 14:41.040 And I think in many cases we're fooling ourselves in blaming the high price, because in many 14:41.040 --> 14:44.080 cases if that could be spread out, everybody would buy one. 14:44.080 --> 14:48.680 It would be very much like records, perhaps $10 a piece, rather than quite a bit much 14:48.680 --> 14:49.680 more. 14:49.680 --> 14:52.760 Neil, we've been trying to get a handle on the volume of this problem, and you happen 14:52.760 --> 14:55.400 to have a catalog there from the West Coast Computer Connection. 14:55.400 --> 14:56.400 Show it to us. 14:56.400 --> 14:57.400 Right. 14:57.400 --> 14:58.400 Let me show you this. 14:58.400 --> 14:59.640 This is one of the more brazen operations. 14:59.640 --> 15:06.800 This is a multi-page catalog listing just scads and scads of titles of pirated software 15:06.800 --> 15:11.240 documentation, including some of the cracking programs and locksmith. 15:11.240 --> 15:14.040 It's interesting, locksmith is on both sides of these. 15:14.040 --> 15:17.640 They have a problem with their proprietary software being pirated as well. 15:17.640 --> 15:20.800 Okay, what was the West Coast Computer Connection doing, and what happened to them? 15:20.800 --> 15:23.760 What they were doing was they were marketing mail order. 15:23.760 --> 15:26.680 They were making contacts, not through bulletin boards. 15:26.680 --> 15:28.200 This was a few months ago. 15:28.200 --> 15:32.400 Not through bulletin boards that we knew about, really, but through the advertising and through 15:32.400 --> 15:35.320 the marketing catalogs being distributed. 15:35.320 --> 15:39.800 And what we did there, it turns out this happened to be, and I'm not saying everybody's going 15:39.800 --> 15:44.520 to get by so easily, but it happened to be some juveniles, and because of the concern 15:44.520 --> 15:51.480 about that, we really went over and visited them and explained the seriousness of this, 15:51.480 --> 15:52.760 and they agreed to cut it out. 15:52.760 --> 15:55.880 We have a written agreement from them that they would discontinue it. 15:55.880 --> 16:01.160 The remedies under the law are much stronger, and we may want to talk about that. 16:01.160 --> 16:02.160 Thank you, gentlemen. 16:02.160 --> 16:03.160 We'll be back in just a minute. 16:03.160 --> 16:07.040 I heard some people suggest that if software were cheaper, then there wouldn't be the motivation 16:07.040 --> 16:08.280 to have piracy. 16:08.280 --> 16:13.560 Wendy Woods took a look at that idea. 16:13.560 --> 16:18.080 Overlooking the San Francisco Bay, and here in this little garage, is one of the most 16:18.080 --> 16:21.560 revolutionary software businesses in the United States. 16:21.560 --> 16:25.120 Welcome to Headland Press. 16:25.120 --> 16:30.400 This is the home of freeware, specifically PC Talk, a communications program that's not 16:30.400 --> 16:31.840 copy protected. 16:31.840 --> 16:34.680 In fact, each shipment encourages piracy. 16:34.680 --> 16:39.560 You can copy freely every single diskette in a unique approach to software sales. 16:39.560 --> 16:45.120 I think what we've done is just address the whole notion of copy protection and piracy 16:45.120 --> 16:50.800 in a different way, and rather than restricting access to the program and appealing to people's 16:50.800 --> 16:56.400 dishonesty, we're giving wide access to the program and appealing to their honesty. 16:56.400 --> 17:02.040 This mom and pop operation claims one out of ten people who copy PC Talk will pay the 17:02.040 --> 17:06.160 suggested $35 fee, and their letters tell the tale of appreciation. 17:06.160 --> 17:10.280 Well, all this is fine and good, but what does it mean for support? 17:10.280 --> 17:14.400 That's usually the biggest part of a software company's budget, and Headland Press stays 17:14.400 --> 17:16.280 on the phone quite a lot. 17:16.280 --> 17:19.200 What do they do if people haven't paid for the program? 17:19.200 --> 17:23.800 We really found that we did better business by giving out the information, and if someone 17:23.800 --> 17:28.280 was using it and hadn't paid, and we could help them use the program, then they'd be 17:28.280 --> 17:30.160 more likely to pay us. 17:30.160 --> 17:33.040 Flugelman thinks the rest of the industry should take a lesson. 17:33.040 --> 17:37.880 He's getting important feedback, business, and appreciation because of his philosophy. 17:37.880 --> 17:42.600 He's not getting rich, but he is getting a surprising amount of gratitude. 17:42.600 --> 17:46.880 Reporting for the Computer Chronicles, I'm Wendy Woods. 17:46.880 --> 17:47.880 Thank you, Wendy. 17:47.880 --> 17:50.940 Joining us now is a young man who we're going to call Frankie Mouse. 17:50.940 --> 17:54.720 That's not his real name, but the guy we're calling Frankie Mouse is a pirate, and he's 17:54.720 --> 17:56.440 going to show us quite an incredible demonstration. 17:56.440 --> 17:57.440 Gary? 17:57.440 --> 18:00.080 You know, Stuart, I think it's one of the important things we should mention is that 18:00.080 --> 18:03.600 by showing these activities on the show here, we're not really condoning them in any way. 18:03.600 --> 18:05.440 In fact, we're not condoning them at all. 18:05.440 --> 18:09.600 But I think it's a rare opportunity for us to get a chance to see just exactly what pirating 18:09.600 --> 18:10.600 is all about. 18:10.600 --> 18:12.160 Frankie, what's going on here? 18:12.160 --> 18:17.640 Okay, we're logged onto a bulletin board right now, and what you see on the screen are titles 18:17.640 --> 18:20.400 of text files that you can look at. 18:20.400 --> 18:24.560 The ones of interest right here are like basics of cracking 101, etc. 18:24.560 --> 18:27.040 If you're not already a pirate, these will tell you how to. 18:27.040 --> 18:29.440 It goes a little course in how to be a head of salesman. 18:29.440 --> 18:30.800 Basically, yeah, there's many, many parts to it. 18:30.800 --> 18:32.320 In fact, not all of it is displayed here. 18:32.320 --> 18:34.120 There's much more than what you see here. 18:34.120 --> 18:36.600 And these are Apple II oriented. 18:36.600 --> 18:40.520 If you want to look at one, just type the number of it, and it will start scrolling 18:40.520 --> 18:42.480 across the screen right here. 18:42.480 --> 18:44.240 I would like to have brought a 1200 baud modem. 18:44.240 --> 18:45.600 It would have gone a lot faster. 18:45.600 --> 18:49.080 Okay, so this is one of your how-to text files on a kind of cracking modem. 18:49.080 --> 18:50.080 Basically right. 18:50.080 --> 18:51.080 It's online. 18:51.080 --> 18:54.800 Somebody else has written these, and basically they go all over the country. 18:54.800 --> 18:59.520 This is a bulletin board, a local bulletin board that people dial into from, let's say, 18:59.520 --> 19:00.520 all over the country. 19:00.520 --> 19:03.880 So how many people, let's say, would be involved in this particular activity here? 19:03.880 --> 19:05.360 Well, it all depends on the board. 19:05.360 --> 19:07.280 Some boards have got as few as 100 members. 19:07.280 --> 19:09.480 Some boards have got 2,000 and 3,000 members. 19:09.480 --> 19:15.120 Okay, now, so can we go on this bulletin board and actually get a piece of pirate software? 19:15.120 --> 19:17.280 There are items like that that exist. 19:17.280 --> 19:19.900 For the Apple II especially, they're called AE lines. 19:19.900 --> 19:24.960 And that's not really a bulletin board, but it is a way of allowing you to call that computer 19:24.960 --> 19:28.020 and download files that have already been cracked. 19:28.020 --> 19:30.800 This particular bulletin board does not have anything like that. 19:30.800 --> 19:34.280 How many bulletin boards are like this across the country, just as a guess? 19:34.280 --> 19:35.640 Do you have any idea at all? 19:35.640 --> 19:36.640 Hundreds or? 19:36.640 --> 19:37.640 Hundreds, maybe thousands. 19:37.640 --> 19:39.400 I have really no idea. 19:39.400 --> 19:40.400 They're all over the place, though. 19:40.400 --> 19:41.400 How do you feel about that? 19:41.400 --> 19:43.280 I mean, do you feel like it's a... 19:43.280 --> 19:44.280 Why do you do this? 19:44.280 --> 19:45.280 What's the reason? 19:45.280 --> 19:52.600 Well, unlike West Coast Computer Connection here, we don't do anything like that for profit. 19:52.600 --> 19:55.920 Basically, it's just for fun and recognition. 19:55.920 --> 20:01.280 If you have a popular name, such as you mentioned the name Mr. Crack Man to any pirate, and 20:01.280 --> 20:02.280 they'll know who you're talking about. 20:02.280 --> 20:04.840 They won't know who he is personally, but they'll know who you're referring to. 20:04.840 --> 20:11.200 So your interest is, I guess, in the fun that you would have in actually cracking the program, 20:11.200 --> 20:13.160 and that's the activity that... 20:13.160 --> 20:14.160 It's kind of like a game. 20:14.160 --> 20:15.160 Right. 20:15.160 --> 20:16.520 It's a game about outsmarting the software makers. 20:16.520 --> 20:22.680 Do you feel like that has any moral issues at all that you're worried about? 20:22.680 --> 20:24.280 Well, you can't deny it. 20:24.280 --> 20:25.480 I guess it is stealing. 20:25.480 --> 20:27.920 I mean, you didn't pay for it, and now you have it. 20:27.920 --> 20:29.520 I mean, you've got it somewhere. 20:29.520 --> 20:32.520 That's stealing. 20:32.520 --> 20:37.520 I really can't say, though, how much software companies lose in revenue because, first of 20:37.520 --> 20:44.200 all, a copied program is like free advertising in a way because it goes out. 20:44.200 --> 20:48.560 And among me and my friends, we have sort of a code of honor that we follow. 20:48.560 --> 20:52.960 If we have a program and we use it a lot, we like it, we will go out and buy it simply 20:52.960 --> 20:56.240 so we have the manuals and the support and all that stuff. 20:56.240 --> 21:00.200 Frankie, if you could log off here, and I want you to show me your Pirate of DB master 21:00.200 --> 21:01.200 in a second. 21:01.200 --> 21:04.320 And, Neil, while Frankie's doing that, how do you react to what you just heard from Neil 21:04.320 --> 21:06.160 as a guy who represents software publishers? 21:06.160 --> 21:09.280 Well, I think there's both a moral issue here and a legal issue. 21:09.280 --> 21:14.760 We talked about before, and Frankie didn't hear that, but he may catch it later, really 21:14.760 --> 21:19.520 the fact that people are using this software and not paying for it really means the software 21:19.520 --> 21:20.520 is a lot more expensive. 21:20.520 --> 21:25.080 And I think that there's an economic issue here that they really...if everybody was using 21:25.080 --> 21:28.520 it paid a small amount, we'd probably have the price drop dramatically. 21:28.520 --> 21:32.480 The second part is the legal, and I'm happy to hear Frankie admit that it is, in fact, 21:32.480 --> 21:33.480 stealing. 21:33.480 --> 21:35.160 It is, in fact, a criminal act. 21:35.160 --> 21:39.280 Because a copyright infringement has been a crime and continues to be a crime. 21:39.280 --> 21:44.000 You can get a year in jail, perhaps more monetary fines, as well as use of trademarks. 21:44.000 --> 21:48.600 We do use the name of the trademark when you have a new criminal statute, criminal counterfeiting 21:48.600 --> 21:51.280 statute that provides up to five years in jail. 21:51.280 --> 21:52.280 So I'm sure. 21:52.280 --> 21:54.520 Okay, let's go back to Frankie. 21:54.520 --> 21:55.880 What do you have here now, Frankie? 21:55.880 --> 22:02.040 Okay, this is a popular program for the Apple II known as DB master. 22:02.040 --> 22:03.680 And it's protected like crazy. 22:03.680 --> 22:05.200 You can't copy it conventionally. 22:05.200 --> 22:06.840 What did you do? 22:06.840 --> 22:08.840 What we've done to it is we've totally opened it up. 22:08.840 --> 22:11.120 I mean, you can copy it from basic right now. 22:11.120 --> 22:12.600 There's no protection whatsoever. 22:12.600 --> 22:17.320 And one thing that we found that was interesting when we did it is that DB master is written 22:17.320 --> 22:19.440 for a large part in basic. 22:19.440 --> 22:23.440 I mean, most commercial programs are written in assembly language. 22:23.440 --> 22:26.520 So in the process of copying this right now, listing now. 22:26.520 --> 22:27.520 Right. 22:27.520 --> 22:31.280 What would it take, Frankie, for you to buy a program? 22:31.280 --> 22:32.280 I'm not sure I understand. 22:32.280 --> 22:38.000 So rather than steal it, is there any incentive that a manufacturer could provide for you 22:38.000 --> 22:39.280 to buy that program? 22:39.280 --> 22:43.280 Well, like I say, if I have a program that I use a lot, I'll buy it for the manuals and 22:43.280 --> 22:44.280 for the support. 22:44.280 --> 22:47.280 So I guess what I could say is to put out good manuals and support the product. 22:47.280 --> 22:50.160 Okay, gentlemen, Frankie and Neil, thanks a lot. 22:50.160 --> 22:54.120 Now, as we see, this is a complex issue with problems of morality and ethics and price 22:54.120 --> 22:55.120 and so on. 22:55.120 --> 22:58.560 Commentator Paul Schindler has some thoughts on the whole problem of piracy. 22:58.560 --> 23:00.320 I've asked. 23:00.320 --> 23:03.080 I bet you never thought of old Paul Schindler as a pirate. 23:03.080 --> 23:05.560 But you know, there are some people who do. 23:05.560 --> 23:08.340 And that takes us to the heart of the software piracy question. 23:08.340 --> 23:10.040 Is it moral or isn't? 23:10.040 --> 23:14.120 Now that's a hard question to answer, but I can tell you that software piracy is illegal 23:14.120 --> 23:16.080 and the definition is pretty simple. 23:16.080 --> 23:19.240 It's piracy if you give away a commercial software program. 23:19.240 --> 23:20.240 That's right. 23:20.240 --> 23:22.000 You're a pirate even if you give it away. 23:22.000 --> 23:26.160 Now most people don't think it's immoral unless you sell the program. 23:26.160 --> 23:30.040 Those two views are irreconcilable and they cause a great deal of controversy in the software 23:30.040 --> 23:31.040 industry. 23:31.040 --> 23:35.960 As a result, software developers are constantly looking for ways to prevent software piracy. 23:35.960 --> 23:39.760 One of the most common, and the dumbest, is copy-proofing. 23:39.760 --> 23:43.040 Copy-proofing causes a lot of problems that I'm not going to get into right now. 23:43.040 --> 23:46.640 But the fact of the matter is that what's worst about copy-proofing is that it attacks 23:46.640 --> 23:50.320 the symptoms, not the cause, of software piracy. 23:50.320 --> 23:53.360 In my opinion, high prices cause software piracy. 23:53.360 --> 23:58.280 Now I know that Lotus costs $700 because the developers want to make their money back. 23:58.280 --> 24:02.840 But the fact of the matter is that corporations can afford prices like that and private individuals 24:02.840 --> 24:03.840 can't. 24:03.840 --> 24:08.520 Whether it's moral or not, expensive software is pirated a lot more frequently than cheap 24:08.520 --> 24:09.520 software. 24:09.520 --> 24:14.200 So my solution to software piracy is for developers to figure out a way to make cheaper software. 24:14.200 --> 24:15.200 That's my opinion. 24:15.200 --> 24:27.000 I'm Paul Schindler. 24:27.000 --> 24:31.320 Using the random access file this week, imagine it's April 15th, almost midnight, and instead 24:31.320 --> 24:35.080 of rushing down to the post office to drop in your tax returns, you simply turn on your 24:35.080 --> 24:38.160 modem and download the old 1040 to Uncle Sam. 24:38.160 --> 24:42.180 The IRS says it is looking into electronic tax filing, including sending in a return 24:42.180 --> 24:43.520 on a floppy disk. 24:43.520 --> 24:47.520 One IRS analyst said he thought there could be electronic filing within five years. 24:47.520 --> 24:51.260 Meanwhile, just like Christmas, baubles in October, software store shelves are filling 24:51.260 --> 24:53.420 up with tax preparation programs. 24:53.420 --> 24:57.000 There are an estimated 50 tax programs in the market this year, ranging in price from 24:57.000 --> 24:59.680 about $50 to more than $300. 24:59.680 --> 25:01.280 Some just help you prepare your returns. 25:01.280 --> 25:03.480 Others actually help you in tax planning. 25:03.480 --> 25:06.800 Here's a list of five of the most well-known tax programs and their prices. 25:06.800 --> 25:11.680 Most of the tax software is available for the IBM PC and the Apple line. 25:11.680 --> 25:15.800 The IRS, by the way, has cracked down on the rules regarding tax deductions for home computers. 25:15.800 --> 25:19.820 Under the revised law, you can only take the full tax deduction for your PC if you use 25:19.820 --> 25:23.000 it at least 50% of the time for legitimate business purposes. 25:23.000 --> 25:27.640 And using your computer to analyze personal investments will not count as part of that. 25:27.640 --> 25:28.960 Best to check with your accountant. 25:28.960 --> 25:33.040 Well, along with electronic tax filing, electronic job finding is growing. 25:33.040 --> 25:36.400 There are now five online job databases in the country. 25:36.400 --> 25:40.320 Business Week magazine says employers are warming to the efficiency of doing online 25:40.320 --> 25:44.800 searches for prospects, since they can add or subtract qualifying criteria and so narrow 25:44.800 --> 25:46.880 or broaden the pool as needed. 25:46.880 --> 25:50.880 American computer manufacturers are poised for the impending invasion of the Japanese 25:50.880 --> 25:53.640 MSX computers, but no one seems too worried. 25:53.640 --> 25:57.480 Most analysts seem to think the Japanese PCs will offer too little, too late. 25:57.480 --> 26:01.560 MSX machines were introduced in Europe late last year and have so far received a cool 26:01.560 --> 26:02.560 reception. 26:02.560 --> 26:10.680 How about a warm reception for our software reviewer, Paul Schindler. 26:10.680 --> 26:13.960 If you don't recognize these moves, you probably never played pinball. 26:13.960 --> 26:15.640 Now, I'm not talking video games here. 26:15.640 --> 26:20.280 I'm talking the real thing, a little steel ball moving down through a gadget-filled field. 26:20.280 --> 26:24.440 You know, I can still remember the first time I found out that real pinball players deliberately 26:24.440 --> 26:28.560 bumped the game and felt the rhythm of the tilt detectors in order to try to avoid a 26:28.560 --> 26:29.560 tilt. 26:29.560 --> 26:31.040 Now, why am I telling you about all this? 26:31.040 --> 26:35.800 Because the true pinball experience has been captured by a game called Night Mission Pinball. 26:35.800 --> 26:39.640 Now, this is not one of those games where you get to design the pinball game. 26:39.640 --> 26:41.040 The basic design's locked in. 26:41.040 --> 26:45.060 But while you can install things just where you want them, you can control every other 26:45.060 --> 26:46.840 aspect of the game. 26:46.840 --> 26:50.440 Ball speed, friction, kicker power, bonus points, bumper resilience. 26:50.440 --> 26:54.400 I still remember at MIT, whenever people would start winning too many games, they'd deaden 26:54.400 --> 26:55.400 the bumpers. 26:55.400 --> 26:57.000 Talk about realism. 26:57.000 --> 27:00.240 When you start Night Mission Pinball, you see quarters on the screen dropping into a 27:00.240 --> 27:02.880 slot and you can bump this game. 27:02.880 --> 27:05.140 But if you bump it too hard, it tilts. 27:05.140 --> 27:08.400 This is the finest simulation of a physical game I've ever seen. 27:08.400 --> 27:13.200 Hats off to Suve Logic, Champaign, Illinois, the people who, for just $40, bring you Night 27:13.200 --> 27:14.200 Mission Pinball. 27:14.200 --> 27:16.960 For Random Access, I'm Paul Schindler. 27:16.960 --> 27:20.520 Commodore says it will lay off more than 500 workers from its plants in Pennsylvania and 27:20.520 --> 27:21.520 California. 27:21.520 --> 27:25.480 Commodore says inventories are high, due in part to slower than expected Christmas sales. 27:25.480 --> 27:29.440 Hewlett Packard reportedly will be coming out with an upgrade of its Model 110 portable. 27:29.440 --> 27:35.400 The new version will feature a 24-line display, 512K of RAM, and a price tag under $2,000. 27:35.400 --> 27:39.280 It reportedly will not come with bundled software in ROM. 27:39.280 --> 27:42.880 Software Access International just completed a survey of computer users to see what they 27:42.880 --> 27:44.240 do with their computers. 27:44.240 --> 27:45.240 Results? 27:45.240 --> 27:49.600 An average user spends 12.2 hours a week with his PC and about half of the time is spent 27:49.600 --> 27:52.760 on work, the other half on games. 27:52.760 --> 27:57.240 There's a new game out called Comex, the Game by the Commodity Exchange in New York. 27:57.240 --> 28:01.240 It's a sophisticated simulation of real commodities trading, where money can be made and lost 28:01.240 --> 28:02.360 real fast. 28:02.360 --> 28:05.840 The exchange says it is selling the software in the hopes that users will then move from 28:05.840 --> 28:07.680 the game to the real thing. 28:07.680 --> 28:11.600 Finally, you've seen those personals columns in the newspaper, you know, single white male, 28:11.600 --> 28:12.600 Sikhs, etc. 28:12.600 --> 28:16.920 Now, you guessed it, New York Magazine, the famed repository for the cryptic lust-wanted 28:16.920 --> 28:20.520 ads has a new electronic mail network called XNet. 28:20.520 --> 28:24.440 It is essentially a personals bulletin board in which New Yorkers can post their desires 28:24.440 --> 28:25.440 for dates. 28:25.440 --> 28:29.280 XNet says about 300 hungry hopefuls have signed up for the service. 28:29.280 --> 28:30.840 That's it for this week's Computer Chronicles. 28:30.840 --> 28:32.980 We'll see you next time. 28:32.980 --> 28:37.760 The Computer Chronicles was brought to you in part by McGraw-Hill, publishers of Popular 28:37.760 --> 28:43.520 Computing, the magazine that gives readers an understanding of the technology and applications 28:43.520 --> 29:11.560 of microcomputers and software in office, home and classroom.