.WITH THE CALCUTTA STUDENTS 205
not require so many for transmission. The example of a few
true men or women if they have fully imbibed the spirit of non-
violence is bound to infect the whole mass in the end. This was
just what I experienced in the beginning of the movement. I
found that people actually believed that in my heart of hearts
I favoured violence even when I preached non-violence. That
was the way they had been trained to read'and interpret the
utterances of the leaders. But when they realized that I meant
what I said, they did observe non-violence in deed under the
most trying circumstances. There has been no repetition of
Chauri Chaura. As for non-violence in thought God alone is
judge. But this much is certain that non-violence in action can-
not be sustained unless it goes hand in hand with non-violence
in thought.
Q. Do you think co-operation between the exploited and
the exploiters is at all possible to attain the ideals you stand
for? Do you not think that time has come when Congress
should take a definite stand for the rights of the masses irres-
pective of the interests of the capitalists and the landlords ? Do
you not think that it is not possible to organize the masses
effectively on nationalistic programme and workers have no
need or no other alternative but to array themselves against
the capitalists and landlords for the exploited tenants and
labour ? Do you not think that a class war is inevitable and
interested classes must perish for the sake of a greater
humanity ?
A. I never said that there should be co-operation between
the exploiter and the exploited so long as exploitation and the
will to exploit persist. Only I do not believe that the capitalists
and landlords are all exploiters by an inherent necessity or that
there is a basic or irreconcilable antagonism between their inte-
rests and those of the masses. All exploitation is based on the
co-operation, willing or forced, of the exploited. However much
we may detest admitting it, the fact remains that there would
be no exploitation if people refuse to obey the exploiter. But self
comes in and we hug the chains that bind us. This must cease.
What is needed is not the extinction of the landlords and the
capitalists but transformation of the existing relationship bet-
ween them and the masses into something healthier and purer.
Y0u ask 'whether the time has not come when the Congress