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««N- N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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HON. N. (LAHKK WALLACK. M.l»..
(Jraiut Ma>'tfr Lvual (irauiie Ai<Mici<ilhin vt' tiritit/i Aiiiyrica.
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE
GraiuJ Muter Uyal Orange Association of British America.
HIS ACTION ON THE "REMEDIAL BILL" AND WHAT LED UP TO IT.
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BY
REV, C. E. PERRY,
Past Grand Chaplain and Past Grand Organiser.
WITH AN APPENDIX BY REV. W. W. COLPITTS, Of Manitoba and North- West Conference.
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AUTHOR'S EDITION. J 897.
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AUTHOR'S PRIUv\( I
TiiK Hon. N. Clarkk Wallack, .i sketch of wliosr lifo ap[)Rars in tlicise paj^es, is the ri^litli (Jiuiul Master of tlie Loyal Oran<^(' Association of Iliitisii Anu^iea. Tho (irand Orange Lodgo was oi'gani/ed in Canada in 1830. Since tliat time we liave had a nunilnM- of einin(!nt men at the head of the Association, hut none more inlluenlial and truly loyal to the great |)rinci{)les of our nohle Association than Brother Wallace. The warrant author- izing the erection of this (J rand Lodg(! was signed hy Ernest, Duke of Cumberland, who, at that time, was Crand Master of the United Kingdom, and hrothcM' of William IV. The first Grand Master of liritish Amei-ica was Ogle R. Gowan, M.P. He swayed the sceptre from 1H30 to 184G. He was succeeded by George Benjamin, M.P., who occupied this honoraljle position for ten years. Then George L, Allen came into power, and for three years
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\r TFfoKS I'KEK/VrE.
ruird the < >nl(M'. The next to assumo tho insignia of this hi;,'li (tWwc was .loliii Millyard CaiiKifon, M.P. Among ihr tokens (»f n's|>«'ct accorded this rulor was the nam- iiif^ of one of the influential hnlf^es of tlie city for liiin, Caniei'oii L. O. L. (\\'.\. Following Cameron was Maeken/ie Howcli, M.P., who held the oftice for eight years. Ileniv Mei'rick, M.P.P., was Howell's successor, ;i.nd then W. .). I'arkhill, M.P. P., occupied the position for four years, and has now the honorable distinction of heing (Irand Treasurer of l^ritish America.
This Idings us to the subject of this sketch, Hon. N. Clarke Wallace, w ho now Knds himself at the head of an Order greatly increased in numbers, in intelligence and inllu<Mice. It is a matter for congratulation that our |)rineii)les are being better understood, both by adherents and outsideis ; and men aic discovering that the Orjinge Older does not exist simply to provoke Roman Catholics to ice. It has been a mattei- of general remark that rei'ont Twelfth of July celebrations have been characterized with that decorum that is befitting a great and growing orgiinizatioii whose eiiief profession is to " Fear God and honor the King.''
There are now under the jurisdiction of the Grand
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AITMOIIS I'HEI \«'K.
IX
liodi^o of British America, 1,(>!^0 Priiruiry L(Ml«^eH, 'JHO District Lodges, 90 County Lodges, 10 Provincial Orainl Lodges. Sixty of these Primary fiodges are in the ancient colony of Newfoundland. During the year 189G, 40 new lodges were oi-gani/ed, and 9,302 persons wei'c re(;eiv"rl into the lodges, and aftei- deducting all losses there remains a net gain of 8,.S45. The Association owns pro- perty to the amount of !$ 1,200,000. The expenditure last year vvas .S'H,8G8 ; of this amount thei'e was over $29,000 given to the widows and orphans of deceased Orangemen who belonged to the Grand l^odge lienefit Fund. Tn this regard we ai-e undei- great obligation to our present Grand Master, N. Clai'ke Wallace, for successfully pressing through Parliament the " Orangt; Incorporation Bill," by which we are able to hold our property and .administer our funds legally for the good of all concerned.
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HON. N. CLARK li WALLACE.
BIOGRAPHICAL
BY REV. C. E. PERKY.
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N. Clarke Wallace is the son of the late Nathaniel and Ann Wallace, both of Carney, in the County of Sligo, Iceland. The former came to Canada in 1884, the latter in 1883. They were married in Woodbridge (then called Burwick) in 1839. From this union there sprang seven children, five sons and two daughters.
The subject of this sketch is the fourth child, and was born on the 21st of May, 1844, in Woodbridge, where he has ever since resided. He married Belinda, seventh daughter of the late James Fillmore, of Ottawa, on the 7th of June, 1877. They have living four sons and three daughters. The eldest son, a lieutenant in the 36th Battalion, is seventeen years of age. The youngest is a little girl of nearly four years.
After attendance at the Public School and six
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACK.
months' training in the Weston Graniniar Scliool, Clarke Wallace engaged in the honorable occupation of teaching school, and for more than five years prose- cuted this work to the mutual advantage of teacher and scliolar. Whilst so employe*!, he had ample time and opportunity to see how under proper inspection the Pul)lic School.. can l)e made a power for good; and is it too much to say that here, employed as a teacher of youth, h(* imbibe<l those principles that he afterwards so grandly enunciated on the floor of the House of Connnons, wh.:n a political party sought to win the approbation of the hiei-archy by breaking down the Public Sch(X)l system of Manitoba ?
At the close of his engagement, he joined his brother, Thomas F. Wallace, in the business of gen- eral merchants in Woodbridge, which they established at Christmas, LSGT. Succeeding in this venture, ten years later they built the Woodbridge Roller Flour Mills, which they still continue, in addition to the general merchandise, both of which they have built up to large proportions and have made pi'ofitable by their enterprise and industry.
Both Thomas F. and N. Clarke have taken an active interest in all public enterprises, the former having been for many years, and is now, reeve of the town and chairman of the Public School Board,
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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as well as inanaijer of the fjreat Woodbridw Fair. Th(^ latter was first deputy-reeve oi' Vaugban from 1874 to 1878, and warden of the County of York the latter year, when he was also elected a member of the D(jnunion Parliament foi- the West Riding of York, the first Conservative elected in i straight contest for twcMity- four years. He had on this occa- sion a majority of 202. He was re-elected in 1882, in 1887, and again in 1891, each time by increased majorities, the last by the noble majority, 806.
On his appointment of Controller of Custonis of Canada, in Decend)er, 1892, he was re-elected by acclamation. This im])ortant office he retained till December, 1895, when the Bowell Government in an unwise and unprincipled attempt to capture the Roman Catholic vote, <letermined to coerce Manitoba and force Separate Schools upon an unwilling pro- vince. N. Clarke Wallace found himself face to face with either endorsing their plans and supporting their measures or resigning his position of power and emolument. He was not hmg in reaching a conclu- sion, but innnediately resigned and gave the Govern- ment Reminlial Bill tlu^ most determined and active opposition in the House of Commons, and with the aid and co-operation of a few othei" resolute men, succeeded in compelling the (Government to withdraw
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
tho ))ill. When tlio battle was transferred to the country in the general election of 1896, he fought on the side of Manitoba and the Public School with remarkable ability in many constituencies beside his own, a ici no doubt helped to turn the scale in favor of freedom.
In West York, though opposed by two candidates of widely divergent views, thus placing him between two fires which it was alleged would take away from him all the votes of both political parties, he secured the largest majority ever recorded in the history of this country, viz., 4,068. The country was not un- grateful. It saw a man for principle sacrifice power, give up large salary, and turn in this matter against the party under w^hose banner he had won so many victories, rather than see a young and rising province against its will put at the feet of Rome, and the verdict of posterity will join with that of West York in its splendid majority.
He has always taken a very active interest in parliamentary afffiirs : in no sense was he a mere " figure-head " or " voting machine," to do, and to do only, as he was told. He was chairman of the rJommittee of Parliament that investigated the opera- tions of combinations injurious to trade, aftcrwai'ds introducing and carrying through parliament a bill
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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to prevent their niiscl'levous praetiec. This hill, though einaseuiatecl l)y the Senate, had still sufficient Force to break up those in existence at that time (1889), and which were rapidly extending.
In 1890, he introduced and carried successfully through parliament " The Orange Incorporation Bill," which had been ti'ied hut without success in the old Parliament of Canada in 1857 and 1858, in the Local Legislature of Ontario on several occasions, and in the Parliament of the Dominion by John White, M.P., and by Hector Cameron, Q.C., IVI.P. On all these occasions, notwithstanding the able support of its friends and the righteousness of its cause, so many were afraid to provoke the ire of Rome that the bill was invariably lost, until N. Clarke Wallace, who could neither Vje cajoled nor intimidated, pushed it to a successful issue, and thereby won the everlasting gratitude of every true patriot and loyal Orangeman.
In 1884, Mr. Wallace was chairman of the Public Accounts Committee of Parliament. In the stormy times of 1891 and 1892 he conducted the proceedings of that committee when it became the centre almost of parliamentary business, and the investigations that took place there from day to day caused the most intense interest and excitement in the country. Here, as elsewhei'e, his was the master hand that gui<led.
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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In tl»e Loyal Orange Associatiun Mr. N. Clarke Wallace lias from his early years taken the most active part. It may be truly said, " He was born in the purple of that order." The first Oranjre Lodge, No. 28, was established by his father and a few other active spirits in 1847, having its place of meeting over his father's cooper shop. He served first as secretary after his initiation in 18G6, then in succes- sion to his father and his brother George in the Primary District and County Mastership. The latter position he held for very many years. He became Grand Treasurer of Ontario West in 1876, and retained that office for five or six years.
In 1885, he was by the votes of his brethren elected to the position of Deputy Grand Master of British America. In 1887, he was further promoted to M. W. G. M. and S. of the Order, succeeding Bro. W. J. Park- hill, whom he tried to induce to retain the office longer. In 1888, he attended the meeting of the Triennial Council at Carrickfergus, Ireland, repre- senting the Orangemen of Canada, and was there elected Vire- President. In 1891, he was elected in Toronto, President of that Great Council of the Orangemen of the World, and was re-elected to that position at the Triennial Meeting of that body held in Westminster Hall, London, England, in July, 1894, a
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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Lrke knost in in )(lge, )ther ;ting
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position he still holds, as weU as the office of ( iriind Master of British America. The latter position he lias held during the most stormy and trying times that the Association has experienced, and yet grate- fully we record the fact that to-day, having emerged from those trials, and overcome the difficulties by which it was environed, it is stronger in Canada than it ever was before, and its principles and practices more widely esteemed.
Mr. Clarke Wallace is a member of the Church of England, and was for about twenty-five years super- intendent of the Sunday School in Woodbridge, until acceptance of the ControUership compelled him to be continuously from home. He is a strong man, vigorous morally, mentally and physically ; his strong good native sense makes him much sought after at public gatherings, and as chairman or speaker he always adds to the enjoyment of the occasion. And it is earnestly hoped that his life and health may be spared many years to his family and his country, and should another crucial point in his history ever be reached, may he again be able to imitate Israel's great law-giver, who refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to suffer afflic- tion with the people of God than enjoy the pleasures of sill for a season.
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APPENDIX.
HY HEV. W. W. COLPITTS.
And should it be asked, " Wliy tliis brief sketcli of
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d life
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Diioi'eu iiie : several re.-isoiis nuiy oe oiveii. First, now tli.'it the " INfanitoba Sch(joi Question " may be reo;arded as fairly and honorably settled so far as Dominion politics are concerned, and our country saved from bein<^ set back centuries educationally, we think a «j;ood purpose is served to have placed before every true patriot and faithful ()rano;c'man in a suitable form some description of the man whose picture adorns this work, and wlu)se public life is here so brieHy sketched, and who under (lod was largely instrumental in defeat in<4' that tyrannical and iniquitous order usually styled the " Remedial Bill." And thouoh the matter is still fi'esh in most minds, yet a brief review (}f the same may be of some good to those into whose hands these pages may fall
It is now nearly fourtecni years since the writer Hrst crossed the Louise Bridge that spans the Red
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,„>>,.. N. ,-LAHKK WAUACK.
K afterwards «tepi.e«l "!'""
the platfonn «t Wnu up „• ^ii„„e,nberment ha.l
Ciavry. I thou^U the wo.K ^^.^^^.^^ ^^,,
t' '-T''"n:a":r^tay«.wu.u
"^'■'"'■""t;"- toop: to fin.Uhe place ovacu.
Wolseley -"■"f ^; ;^jj„„i ,„iotly Hlippea away. aU-.Uor Hi.'l an.1 Uis rebels 1 ^^^.^^^ ^^^ ,^^
Whatathrou, oi -"-'°"^ "".ad been confined. ,.,.. at tbe buUdin, wHo^^^^^^^^^
,„,Hro,n wh,ch he '-«^ J?'' " ^^,^, t^.t he was
an Orangen^an rhute n y ^^^^ ^^„, .h,,,
'^"^^ f : ; tr: 0 a ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^-^ ^'^-^ ^^
^vhcn Kiel led tnat sccon ^^^^^ ^
«. scaffold that he earned yea« be . ^^ ^.^_ ^^^
^0 patient P-P ^J- ^ ;;;,,„„ „„ the " School
^^^n.^^^ritotCU as one can trace a Question back to .^ ^ The
river back to the hiUs from ^^^^
-- i- ^^"^^iCuLl destinfes of what sought to grip fimly the po ^^^ ^^^^^ .^
after the sxveet ^vlll discussion
-^^«^'^-"trtreC->o: by ecclesiastical as well, as witness the supp ^^^^,^^,
,„,ncle.,ieiit o£ a French papei in Queb
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HON. y. CLAHKE WALLACE.
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upon Fort it had Isrs, an<l which evacu- 1 away, id as he ;onfincd, shot to he was icquaint- ait there nt him to id that a . him, the e " School n trace a ngs. The dove, that 3S of what i shape it een to-day discussion clesiastical that dared
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to r\|tr('ss itst'll' indopendeiit of l^oniish dict.it ion. .iiid Archldsliop L;m<;('vin now, as Arcld3ish(»)) 'I'.ichc tlici), Mrn)*rut('s to hiniselt' tho ri<jlit to conti'ol the schools wliicli the cliildren ol' Roman CMthoIics attciid. I>ut ;i little time u^^o, in Montmorency Comity, a I'cjtortci- ol' the Hendd was put to the door by ji priest to whom he hnd iTone to obtain information concern inLT pnblie instruction in his parish, and told him, "TIh' laity have nothinfj to do with the schools. Tiie <juestions of education concern the bishops alone."
The attitude which ^Monsoiffneur Lano-rvin has taken is based on this idea, that the ])arents have nothinir to do with the comhict of the schools. Tt is he and he alone who is the judfje of such a matter. When it comes to payin^^ the taxes, however, it is the father, the motlier, tlie whole family, who are con- cerned. The whole question, in short, resolves itself into the point w^hether the children belon(]r to their fathers and their mothers ; whether those who pay their taxes, by their money, for the teachers, the con- struction of the school buildino-s and their mainten- ance count for nothmp^.
His Grace is violently opposed to a loyal trial of the policy of conciliation offered by the Greenway CaV)inet. Will His Grace slionldei- the school ex- penses which he would ol)lige the Catholics of Mani-
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HON. N. CI.AKKK WALLACE.
tolta to p.'iy, uliilf all tiu' oIIkt inhabitants of that |iin\ iiicf iccfivc tln'ir ))ul)lic sulwiJios, to wliicli thu Catholics coiitriltut*' their .slian' ^ The I'csult of the (|i'l)l(>i-a))lt' attitude of Mot. Laiiocviii is easy to rort'se(!. Tlie r«'\v ( atliolic schools which lie wouhl luive tlieni maintain will he ahsolutely inl'erior, huiwh-ecls ol' children will he deprived ol' education, and the Cath(;lic jtopnlation, already poor, will be crushed nndt'r hui'dens too ^^reat for their resources. His (Jrace will he the cause when (catholic innni;;i'ation will not direct itself to Manitoba, and when even the population which is already there will decline day by day.
M*'i-. LMnLi-evin is a younii' man without laroe ex- perience of life. He will carry in the si^'ht of history responsihiliti(^s before which wisei* and more experi- enced men shrinh. He may live lon^- enou^^^h to realize the fault he is connuittinjj* at this moment.
If it he asked, " Why not i.n've the schools over to the control of the clei'^y >"' \v<' answer that a celibate clerey who ])Ut away from themselves the joys and responsibilities of paternity, from the very nature of thin<j;s can have hut little sympathy with the child,
and less foi- the
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ent. And theiv is little fear of
aiiv <lillieult\' arisino- in ai-ranainii" the Public School service where no denominational distinction is made,
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HON. N. cr.ARKE WALLACl-:.
2'A
tlwit
li the
1)1' tlu'
prest'i!.
tlu'in
|(ls of
id the
ruslicd
His
jration
hen the
hiy by
iriie ex-
history
experi-
ju{^h to
lent.
over to
celibate
oy.s and
ature of
he child,
L' fear of
c School
is made,
at least as far as tin* pjircnts ai-e ('oiicfniftl. if tlicy are not pushtMl to iii.ike ohjeetloiis l>y the clergy. Vol' what parent is lujt j;lad to see his child have a fair chance to secure an e<lucation nntraninieled ' Ami who that has ever liad an opportunity to jnd;^e l>ut has seen that Separate Schools intensify diiiioniina- tional l)i<.jotry, and fiv(juently enj^ender hat«'. until the terms *' Papist " and " Hei'etic " becomi; a l)atlle- cry as s<jon as they meet ott' their school j^rounds <* r>ut let the children sit at tlu^ same desk, ct)n the same lesson, recite to the same teachei", be Catholic or Protestant, and when they come to «;o out into the world they will carry with them mutual esteem and respect. But Manitoba under the Xonjuay ( Jovern- ment did have Separate Schools, and a fail* trial was made to meet the wishes of Mor. Tache. Why were they not continued i We answer witlujut hesitation, because they were most inefficient in every regard, unless their proficiency in the doj^mas of tlu; Church be accepted as education. Mrst, they were not pro- perly supervised or inspected. And what " Separ- ate School " ever w^as ? On this point Hon. Israel Tarte, speaking at Cornwall, Dec. Gth, says ; " When the Norquay Government was defeated, the position was this. During the whole time that the Separate School law had been in force, Mi-, (now Senator)
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HON. N. CI.AKKK WALLACE.
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fJci'iiU'i- was Su|)(.'rinteii(l(.'iii of the Separate Scliools. But \V(jul(l you beli vc it, he never once visited one of the Public Schools, I Kit he (h'ew his sahiiy of S4,000 a year re^'Milarly. But not only that, but in one year alone he uot SS.OOO for certain translations of EnWish into French on account of Separate Schools. I say after iiivesti;;,ation, that the Separate School funds were shamefully misapplied or misappropriated, just as y(Ki choose to put it. For my part, I call it fraud, pur(3 and simple. If an investigation were to be held, and I hope it will, it will be shown that I am not too strong in my language. Such an investigation, too, would show that the educational system of these Separate Schools was the most inefficient ever pre- tended to be given to a Christian conniuniity. And th. iv is no doubt on the minds of those who have liv«Ml '.u Manitoba and closely watched succeeding events in this regard, that when a full investigation is made the hon. gentleman's o])inion as expressed hen^ will l)e abundantly confirmed.
Is it not a fact that the Separate School always closes its door to ethcient inspection ? Not long since, at Ottawa, when the Government sent special inspectors to examine these schools, they met with determined resistance. 01 course, the I'esistance took a passive foi'm.luit tliey were told by the ecclesiastics in chai'ge
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that they luul received their ordei-s to retire when the inspectors entered. We are shnt u]) to the conchision that efficient inspection is not to i^e tolerated by the Roman CathoHc clergy, they liavin*^ no desire tluit their schools, conventual or otherwise, should have their teaching and methods of gcjvernment published to the world. And this, I take it, is really the great objection that Mgr. Langevin has to the present settlement. Then he sees further the old re<rime that has relegated to ignorance and comparative seclusion so many young people of the Church over which he reigns, that has put its iron heel of suppression on everything like mental and material progress, must now give way. That this is no fanciful statement, I point the reader to St. Boniface and other French settlements in IVIanitoba, that had the iirst hold com- paratively on the country, that made finest selections of soil and were secured in their titles, but which have been altogether outstripped in the race by those who had not these advantages. " When I contrasted," says Mr. Tarte, " St. Boniface with the modern city of Winnipeg, I could almost have cried. Winnipeg is a modern cit}'' with 40,000 people ; St. Boniface, which liad the start in the race, has probably a poj)ulation of 1,400. It is ooinii' back instead of movina' forward. The late Archbishop had tlie idea of rounding a great
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French-Canadian colony, which should be isolated from all other peoples and interests. Quite fatal. He obtained larj^e tracts of land, and held them against all outsiders. Look at the result to-day. I felt sick at heart to think of the way my countrymen had b<'en handicapped."
And handicapped they w^ere in those schools that existed in Manitoba previous to the Free School Act, passed by the (Jreenway Government. For any system of education that only proposes to teach what to think, and not hoio to think, must in the very nature of things dwarf the intellect. For these schools, true to the traditions of the Church all tlown the centuries, as seen in every land where their hand was laid with authority upon the education of the people, repressed, sternly repressed, fair investiga- tion both in science and religion. Italy itself has at last grown tired of priestly domination in its schools, and abolished the old system. And is it to be sup- posed now, when France, Italy, and many other Roman Catholic countries are throwing off the man- acles, that a young and vigorous province like Mani- toba is going (juietly to submit to have the cast-off shackles riveted to her ankles ?
But let not the reader imagine that we wish for a moment to deprive our fellow-countrymen of any
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privikge that we enjoy ourselves, aiid we tliink that the settlement now ottered Manitoba fjives to tlie ecclesiastic all the privileges that lie ought to ask. And we are glad that there is no discrimination between Protestant and Catholic, and that all the schools are to be inspected by an inspector that knows no denominational difference, We continue, as oi* yore, to advocate " Ei^.ual rights to all, special privileges to none."
There have been tw^o rebellions in the North- West, and none know^ better than the hierarchy the causes that led up to them. It is to be hoped that blind zeal and religious fanaticism will not so provoke the public mind as to lead to results that cannot fail to be disastrous to those who appeal to racial and sectarian prejudices. I am glad to believe that, so far as Dominion politics is concerned, the Manitoba School question is settled.
" They " (writes one a little time ago) " can tight within that province to their heart's content, but if Langevin or Lafleche, or Cameron, or O'Brien, or anyone else attempts to bring the matter within the arena of Federal politics again, he wdll be worthy of the execration and contempt of all Canadians. And I believe their efibrts will be met with such a storm of resentment as will make clear even to the
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hicnirchy that CanadH is for Canadians, and not t'oi- Rome."
I believe that Canada lias reached a new era in her history. We have a Premier, a French-Canadian, who coujljines in his person the best oi' both ty]ies ol' Canadian pn})lic life. The French people are follow- in^' him rather than the Church. Once havintr tasted of liberty, they will not easily become enslaved aoain. And in this way Wilfrid Laurier may become the saviour of French Canada. The moveii'ent for better schools in Quebec at the present time is tlie direct I'esult of tlui people's victory over the priest at the polls in June last. I expect turmoil and storm, and we may see temporary reaction, but I believe the power of Rcjme, Canada's worst public foe, is broken, and the day is coming when the splendid vivacity and bi-illiance of the Fi'ench mind will be set free t(j unite with the more sturdy (jualities of the English-speak- ing sections of our people. As a result of this move, there will grow up in this North land a nation remarkable foi' its high mental and moral character, and which shall give to the world the finest example of <lemocracy, governing itself in the interest of all its citizens and of all the world.
At pi'esent 1 look to Wilfrid Lauriei' as the hope of Canada, for J thiuk he will be able to attract to his
HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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side such men as N. Clarke Wallace and others of that class who prefer righteonsni'ss to power gained at the sacrifice of principle. Thus aided, he may help us to resolve our personal and national })re- judices into a larger unity, and will be abk; to give to the world an example of assimilated thought and purpose in national Hfe such as we have never had.
A second reason for this sketch of the life of Hon. Clai'ke Wallace lies in the stinmlus that it is calcu- lated to give every man of principle to stand l»y his colors.
The Orange institution has lono' been reo-arded as a kind of caudal appendage that would wag with delight whenever the political party was patte<l on tlie head. Astute politicians in nnistering forces and counting numbers, previous to electi(3ns, always seemed to tliink that Rome was one and indivisible, and as goes Rome so goes the country. Othei- peoples would break into factions, and could be flatteriMl or cajoled as circumstances demanded. And it nuist be admitted that there was to(j good reason in ')elieve that this was not far from the truth. But the last Dominion election was a wonderful awakening to many who had their little dream. Sir C/harles Tupper, trained as he was in the home of a l>a])tist ck'!*gyman, must from his earliest boyhood ha\ e hat!
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])riiicipk,'s iiiculcuted Jit utWr variance with those recently avowed on tlie platj'orni and in the House oi* Conunons. But he saw the exigencies of his party — a party hy the way that had on its roll honored names, and claimed the adherence of men of whom Canada may well be proud — and he chose in an evil hour to ally himself with the hierarchy, and stooped to do their bidding and coerce Manitoba, Had he but listened for a moment, surely the shade of his once Cireat Chief would have whispered, "You cannot check Manitoba." He evidently thought that his own party in the House would stand by him. Did he not know that some of his political associates were pledged men, pledged to stand by religious libertj^ to all classes and give to every child the opportunity cf obtaining a conunon school education ? What of such pledges ? Was he not familiar with men who had for the sake of honor and salary broken the most solemn pledges, and thrown the most sacred declara- tions to the winds, characterizing them as the offspring of moments of weakness ? Sir Charles was no stranger to the elasticity of the ordinar}- political conscience, an<l had reason to believe that those around him would, for the sake of continued office and salary, join him in the high bid he was making for the Catholic vote. What then must ha\e been
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his surprise and chagrin, when Sir Wilfrid Laurier moved the " six months' hoist," to see Hon. Clarke Wallace step boldly forth and second the motion, and that, too, in a short speech that will be r(!mem- bered for many years — remembered for its outspoken manliness, remembered as coming frcjm the lips of a man who was thereby leaving office and emolument that he might thereby preserve a conscience void of ort'ence toward God and man ?
I'he days of heroism are not all past. There are yet, when circumstances demand it, men who will so far forget all selfish considerations as to stand fear- lessly forth for the right when to do so brings not only loss of pecuniary kind, but contumely, misappre- hension and scorn.
" Here is a hero staunch and brave
Who fights an unseen foe ; Who puts beneath his feet
Selfishness, base and low ; Who stands erect in manhood's
Might, undaunted, undismayed ; A braver man than draws the sword
In fray or in raid. He may not win a hero's name
Nor fill a hero's grave, But truth will place his iianu-
Among the bravest of the brave, "
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HON. N. CLARK K WALLACE.
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That spei^ch adiveml by Hon. N. Clarke Wallace oil 'ruesday, March 8r(l, in the House of Connuons, had a wonderful effect not only on those who heai^l it, but as it came to us in the west, it seemed as if from the very ranks of the enemies of the Public Schools there had stepped forth a champion for Manitoba's ri<;hts, who would make his voice heard for good. And so it proved.
^ViJ
SPEECH OF HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE, M.I'., ON THE REMEDIAL BILL.
Ottawa, Tuesday, March 3rd, LS06.
Mr. Wallace — Mr. Speaker, I am sure that members of this House will set aside party feeling for the time to rejoice that we have the pleasure of having again with us the present leader of the House, the Hon. Secretary of State (Sir Charles Tupper). Though political lines divide us, we all recognize, I hope — at any rate the Conservative party in this House and throughout the Dominion recognize — the splendid servicec rendered to Canada prior to Con- federation and since then, by that honorable gentle- man, and recalled to our minds so vividly this afternoon. For my part, I have always admired his splendid courage, which has brought the Conservative party and the country as well through many difficult crises. I recall one particularly, that during the construction of the Canadian Pacihc Railway, and I remember with pride and pleasure the indomitable courage exhibited by the Hon. Secretary of State during tluit trying period. He, like oui" otlier great
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liuulor, Sir John Macdonald, always ha<l t'aitli in our country and its jwssibilitics. But, while I say that, and wliih' I have followed the honorable gentleman durinu- many years in this House with very <^reat pleasure, and thou<;'h t(j-day I closely adhere to the doctrines of the Conservative party, as I understand them — to the pi'inciple of Protection and those other and lai'^e principles leading to th<' confederation of the Kmpireand closer comiection with the Motherland — I regret that on the ([Uestion lie has brought bc^fore the House to-day I am unable to follow him. The honorable gentleman called to mind the fact that Canada before Confedei'ation was divided on racial and I'eligious lines, and tliat at (.Vnfeclcration those lines disappeared, and the ([Uestions which had seri- ously divided the old provinces wi^re left to be settled by the \ arious provinces, and, as he very aptly said, we have been a hapjiy family ever since, I regret that, by this ])ill, which, I presume, was left to him as a legacy, a pledge to bring which bc^fore the House was made before he became a nunnber of the House and a member of the (Jovernment, lie shouhl take such action as must (bvide the countiy on racial and religious lines. I believe that while these (piestions were kept in the domain to which they properly belong, that of the provinces, the provinces have always settle*] them fairly and satisfactorily, and each provinct' has been satisfied and has done its part to upbuild the Dominion, 'i'hat being so, I all the more regret that a bill sliould be brought forwai'd
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\vlii(!li will n'\i\«' Micsc I'uci.-il mikI rclin-ions (|iic,sl i<»ns ill tlu^ House oF Coiiiiiioiis and in (he Dominion, ami plunge us jij^ain into those vory (litlicultics wliicli ( 'onfudd'ation was intcii'Ietl to overcome. Now, sir, with reference to another nwittei" alhi»le<l to l»y lh«i honoral)le lejuler of tlie House, I have a lew words to say. He referred to tlie ])eopIe of l)in()trd and fanatical impulses, and hv. said the man who jn-o- m(jte<l a wai' of races or creeds is an enemy to Canafla. I quite coincid<! with that statement; 1 believe that tliose who ])romote tlms*' ditfieulties are enemies to Canada. But, wdiile that is mv Ixdief, I re])U<]iati^ the implication tliat those wlio are opposin;;' this hill are open to ]>e characterized l)y any such words. It is not upon us who may think pi-oper to oppose this l)ill tliat the char<j^e can l)e thi'own tliat we liave done anything to promote racial or reliiijious sti'ifc!. If we oppose this hill, as I shall o])pose it at every stage, at the sa,me time I repudiate the im])lica,- tion tliat I am responsible for bringing' this ([U(\stion before the Parliament of Canada. Sir, this is a very serious matter. The leader of the Covernmeut has told us, this afternoon, that this is the most impoi-tant 'juestion that has come up since Confederation. I agree with liim in that view, and I go this far in saying that before that (juestion w^as ever brought up to be foue'ht over in the Parliament of Canada, and to create disturbanc3 of a kind which we all must deprecate and deplore, I say, that every effort should have been made to prevent it. This is a new form of
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HON. N. CLAKKK WAI-F-ACK.
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Irnisl.il ion, it. is .sniiicMiiii^' uiikimwii licrchtt'orc It is Inic, iIh'Ic is ;i |>r()\ isioii {'or it on tli(^ statufcr-hook, (line is a icscrvcd powci" ; mikI tlic Iiij^licst courts liMVc (l('('lMn'<| (li.'it we liMVc tlic jtowcr to cimct soiiio sort of l(';j,islMl ion (o rcnicily (grievances, if oricvMiices exist. I5nt I say that Itel'ore we undei'took to let^is- late in tliis \va\', every resort sliould have Ixm'Ii e\haus((M|. (>\v\y ell'ort should liave l)een n»ade' to a\(>id it. 1 cannot auree with the ,staten>ent that <'vei*y effort has l)een made to liave the Province of Manitoba, settle tliis (juestion thi^niselves. I am forti- fied in tliat opinion by tli(5 docuuK'nts tliat liavi^ het;ii presented to the House, l»y the <h*astic ord«M' that was made last March, asking' tlie Province of Manitoba ])racti('.iily to i-e-enact a systt^m of Separate Scliools which previously (»xisted, and wliich were found to be wholly unsuitable to the circumstances and condi- tions ()( the country, whicli were found to <^ive a very ina<le( plate education to the children, and wliich was ])roductive of \ery poor results in every direction. So I say that, for my part, though I shall oppose this bill, I shall not (piietly rest under the implication that, by opi^osing- it, I am promoting racial and religious disturbance in the country. On the con- trary, 1 say that the full responsibility of so doing will rest upon the Government who have proposed this legislation, who have thrust it upon the Con- servative party: because the Conservative party, as I know it in the Province of Ontario, have not been, at any time in my i-ecollection at any rate, in accord
HON. N. CLARK P: WALLACE.
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witli (lie ]u-iiKM|>i»'s of this hill. Now, wh.it .ire tln' r.icls ol' tlio caHc ? W(3 hav(! hccii told to-day tiiat th«'ro is a h3<^al ohHpition, that there is m constitu- tional order, as it were, and we woro told l)y the lionorahle leader of the Government, tliat it is not ,'i (|uestion of Separate Schools, hut of the constitution. Well, sir, when that matter was first l)i-ou;;ht hefore the House; of Commons, by way of resolution declar- inn- in favor of the creation of a court to investioate these matters, a resolution moved hy the Hon. Mr. IJIake, and seconded, I think, hy the present leadei- of tlie Opposition, there was no lej^jal ol)li^^'ition contem- ])lated then, nor is there to-day, for enfoi-eini;' any leoislation tliat may be enacted. Sir John A. Macdonahl, who was then tlie leader of the Gov<'rn- ment, asked Mr. Blake al)out this i)oint, when the latter Ijrought in the res(jlution :
"Of course, my honorable friend, in his resolu- tion —
(the I'esolution upon which the Act of Parliament was
founded)
— " has guarded against the suspicion that such n, d<!cision is binding upon the Executive."
The reply was :
" Such a decision is only for the information of tlie Gcjvernment, the Executive is not relieved from its responsibility. The answer of the tribunal will he simply for the information of the Government. The Government may dissent from that position."
And that is the position of affairs in this case. An
opinion has been given by the Judicial Committee of
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tlic Privy ( -oiincil, liut tliat opinion is not a (locision l)in<lin^ upon us. In that decision the Privy CV/uncil (U'clai'LMl tlio constitutional powers of the Government but did not declare a policy at all. But, Mr. Speaker, because we have the power to legislate, coes that imply that we are under an obligation to legislate ? It tlit'U becomes, sir, a political ([uestion. We have p<»^\.•r to-<hiy to legislate U})on insolvenc3% but we are not doing so. We have power to-day to pass a ])n '.M itory li(|uor law, but that does not make it C'>ii: (ulsory on this Parliament to enact a prohibitory li(ju< /• law. And so, in this case, it is clear we have .1(0 power to enact some sort of. legislation, though it is (|uestionable whether we have the power to go as far as this bill goes, and sucli was the indication of the Privy Council, not in the line of the bill we hav(; ))efore us to-day, but some sort of legislation. But, for my part, I am not disposed to split hairs on that matter, because I am opposed to the principle of Separate Schools altogether. I do not believe they are good for any country, and experience has proved that. The Province of Manitoba, in their wisdom, abolished the Separate School system after nineteen years' experience, and, after five or six years' experience, have twice, T b?Heve, reaffirmed their adherence to that system, and on the last occasion by a majority {dip.; st unanimous, because l)oth political parties in the Province are connnitted to the maintenance of the Public School system. Therefore, I sfiy, that the people of Manitoba, who have the greatest interest in
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this matter, vvIioko wliolc legislation would 1)c .ifteeted by tlii.s bill, if pastsed, have, by an almost unanimous vote, decided that they are in Favor oi' a Public as against a Separate School system. Hut we are told that the rights that were granted ])revious to the union have been infringed upon by provincial legisla- tion. But, Mr, Speaker, the Privy Council, in the case of Barrett against the City of W innipeg, decided that there was no infringement of rights previous to the union ; that there were no rights existing, either by law or practice, that had been interfered with. They further dechired, that the legislation of 1890 establishing a Public School system was (juite within the powers of the Local Legislature. They have reaffirmed that in their later decision, so that the fact stands to-day, that the Local Legislature of Manitoba, who, in their wisdom, have enacted a Public School system, and abolished the Separate School system, were acting (juite within the powers which the Manitoba Act gave them. But we are told, that rights and privileges were affected, and that there was a grievance. But, Mr. Speaker, while there may have been a grievance, it does not follow that either a moral or a political wrong has been done. The legal grievance referred to in the bill, consists in the abolition of a privilege heretofore granted, irre- spective of whether that privilege was founded on justice or reason; and the privilege has been with- drawn. But a privilege was also given to tlui Vvo- testants of Manitoba that t'hey should have Pinicslant
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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scliools, because it said Protestants and Roman Catho- lics. That privilege has been withdrawn from the Protestants, so tliey have exactly, as I understand it, the same "-I'ounds for (grievance as the Roman Catho- lies. But is it a grievance ^ Is it a grievance that the children of the Roman Catholic population have supplied to them now efficient schools in place of inetlicient schools ? Is it a grievance that there is a better system of education in the Province of Mani- toba foi- all the children of the Province, both Protes- tant and Catholic, than there was before ? Because where two schools were established before, and where the p(jpulation was not sufficient to properly maintain those two schools, there is one efficient Public School to-day. But we are told : But these are Protestant schools, and therefore you are doing an injustice to the Roman Catholics by compelling them to send their children there. To that I have to reply that we have the opinion of the Privy Council exactly to the contrary. The Privy Council, in their first judgment of Barrett vs. City of Winnipeg, said as I'oUows :
" They cannot consent to the view wliich seems to be indicated by one of the members of the Supreme Court, that the Public Schools under the Act of 1S!)0 are in reality Protestant schools. The Legislature has declared in so many words; that the schools shall b(i entirely unsectarian, and that principle is carried out throughout the Act."
Thnv is the evidence of the Privy Council after exainiualinn as to what tin; law was, that the schools
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are entirely unsectarian, ami th'^ret'ore there is no .such thin<^ as compellint^ tlie children ot" Roman Catholics t(j attend Protestant schools. In their late decision the Privy Council reaffirmed, in almost similar phraseology, their decision. They said :
" It is true that religious exercises prescribed for the Public Schools are to be no^. distinctly Prott stant, for they are to be non-sectarian, and a parent may withdraw a child from them."
So the schools now established, according to the .statement of the Privy Council which examined into the question, are strictly non- sectarian.
Who are asking for the repeal of this Act ? They are not, as I have shown, the people of Manitoba, because they are almost a unit in favor of its main- tenance, and we have the best evidence to show, not only that the Protestant population but a large sec- tion of the Roman Catholic population are in favor of the Public School system, because they I now, as we know here, that where a Public School system is only in vogue there are more efficient schools, and better progress is made by the pupils, a result that every parent desires. Who, then, are they who are asking for the repeal of the Public Schools Act of Manitoba ^ They are not, I affirm, the people of the Province of Ontario. They are not the people of the great pro- vince and of the Territories to the west of Manitobn. I do not believe there is any province that would willingly desire to interfere in the affair's of ^fanitoba, because we had evidence in the J^-oNiiicc of Quebec
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Hon. N. CLAHlvK WAM.ACK.
(luriii<;tlu' hist byo-elections, wlieii tlie stronoe.st eflforts were made to secure th<' support of the electorate on the plea tliat Separate Schools were to be re-estab- lished ill Manitoba, that the (jlovernnient failed to receive support on that «;T(jund, though, as I say, strong appeals were made to the people. So we may safely conclude that the people of the Province of Quebec are not interested, as they should not be interested, in forcing Separate Schools on the Pro- vince of Manitoba. Then who are they who are forcing these schools on the Province ? We have evidence here, I am sorry to say, that the hierarchy are inter- ested in doing so, and have interested themselves very much. I will refer to that matter more particularly later on. But, Mr. Speaker, I wish to call attention to this fact, that if they succeed in forcing a Sepa- rate School system on the Province of Manitoba against the wishes of the people of that province, they are not going to stop there. They will immedi- ately demand that the same system be applied to the Territories as they are formed into provinces, and they will even make their demand without waiting for the formation of the Territories into provinces; and we have evidence before us to-day that the Legis- lature of the North- West Territories, or rather the North-West Council, passed a school Act during the last session of the council, but through some means which we do not (juite understand, although we know the fact, the signature of the Lieutenant-Governor was not gi\('ii (u the Act, and, therefore, it did not
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bt'COiiK'. law. 1 have not heanl ol' any ])ro])('r ivasoii j^iven why thu Governor <li(l not aiHx liis Hionature to the document, wliich it was ((iiitc witliin the power of the North- West Council to enact, and therefore I say there has been a miscarriage ol' law in some lespects, and we are told, and it has not been contra- dicted, that this course was taken because of the strong opposition of Archbishop Langevin, to the measure, and in consecpience of his protest. We do know that the same course was attempte<l with respect to legislation passed l»y the North-West Council some years ago. I have here a copy of the protest of Archbishop Langevin's predecessor, Arch- bishop Tache, sent to the Government against that law, and calling on the Government to disallow it ; but Sir John Thompson, who was then Ministev of Justice, refused to disallow it because the Council of the Territories, he said, had not exceeded the powers conferred on them by the Canadian Government ; and as, therefore, the law was intra vires, he had not the right to interfere. A strong feeling was aroused against him hj Archbishop Tache, because he refused to disallow the Act. The same state of things pre- vails to-day, and this explains the fact that the Act passed by the North-West Council is not a law on the statute books to-day. Not only will the hierarchy go to the North-West Territories, if this bill is carried in this House, and have the same law to establish Separate Schools enacted there, but they will gtit power to go back to the legislatures which have
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declared that they do not want Separate Scl tools. They will go to British Columbia. Why not ? It* this law is right for Manitoba it must be right for British Colundiia.
An hon. Member — No.
Mr, Wallace — An hon. member says " No." I pre- sume he thinks tliey would not want a Separate School system there.
Mr. Amyot — It is not in the constitution.
Mr. Wallace — They will go and ask to have the constitution altered.
Some hon. Members - Oh, oh.
Mr. Wallace — Why not i If they have tlie right to force this school system on Manitoba, they will claim the right to force it on British Columbia and Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island. We will then find ourselves in this position, that every year there will be interference with the edu- cational legislation of the various provinces. I hold that we should approach this subject with the greatest care — or rather we should not approach it at all — because there will be difficulties, and no man can see where the difficulties will end. Hon. gentlemen say that the passage of this Act now will settle the cjues- tion. The very Act of itself is evidence to the con- trary. What does the last clause say ? It reserves to the Dominion Government further power, and the power r.iiiy be giver as soon as it is shown that the powers conferred by this bill are inade([uate to the pi'oper cai-rying out of the tei'nts of the Act. W«5
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HON. N, CLARKE \VAI,LACE.
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ware told tliat bi;c S-^panilo iSchouLs were ^ranted to the Province of Manitoh"., First, Ijecause lliere was a treaty and by that treaty they were I'utitled to Sepa- rate Scliools. Mr. Speaker, tliere was no treaty tliat gave them that right. There were four treaties, so- called, or bills of rights, made up there. Two of these were by a convention or a mass meeting of the people ; there was one, at any rate, made by the pro- visional government of Louis Riel, and the fourth was said to be made, but I think the evidence is con- clusive that the fourth so-called treaty, or bill of rights, wa-! a forgery. But, even if it were not a forgery, and even if these third and fourth ti'eaties were in existence, the then Governor-General of Canada, Sir John Young, refused to treat upon tlu^ basis of these, because they were the product of a rebellious government. He consented to treat upon the basis of the first and second, which were from a convention of citizens assembled in Winnipeg, and this convention sent these Bills of flights down here, and had them brought before the people, and it w.'>", the second of these which was the basis upon which the Manitoba Act was founded. Therefcie there is no treaty. In the second Bill of Rights, and in the first and third there is no mention of Separate Schools of any form. In the fourth one, this bogus one, which we claim, and which the evidence amply proves was a bogils one, tliere is mention of Separate Schools : but that was never considered by Sir John Young or by the Cfovej-nment of that time. Now. wc ait' told,
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Mr. Speaker, (liat hy tlic law they shoiiM liavc Scpji- rate Schools. But, sir, the decision of the Privy Council, to which I have already alluded, does not bear out that pro|)osition. The decision of the Privy Council does not make it compulsory in any way that there should l)e a Separate School Act. Indeed, I should say that the Privy Council does not give a decision at all, but simply expresses an opinion to the effect that : If the Parliament of Canada chooses to enact such legislation within certain restricted limits, it has power to do so. I claim that this Parliament of Canada is as free as air to-day not to enact a single line of legislation upon this matter. It becomes a political question, and for the future prosperity of this Dominion, for the future (juietness of this Dominion and its peace, I think that the Government should stay their hand even now, and decide to with- draw this bill. I say that, because the bill will provoke disaster, it will provoke (quarrels, it will set province against province, and race against race, and I'eligion Jitrainst religion, and it will be of no benefit whatever to those whom it is intended or designed to serve. I say, sir, that the Government in this matter have made a great mistake, and that it is not too late yet for them to retrace t^^eir steps. Mr. Speaker, there is not a line in the Public Schools Act of Manitoba that interferes with the liberty of either the parent or the child. It does not interfere in any w^ay with the liberty of the people to educate their chililreii in leligious subjects as they may please. It
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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•Iocs not intcrfei'o in any way witli any of tlic pi'ivi- Icn^os that it is proper they should enjoy. Theiel'ore the conscientious convictions of Roman Catliolics amount to this. They say : We want our cliildren echicated in tlie dot^mas of our Church in tlie Public Schools. But, sir, I say that we have no rij^ht to teach the do^rmas of any Church in the Puljlic Schools of the country. If we acknowled<^e that ri<^ht we must concede it to every religious denomination. We nmst give the same rights to the Presbyterians, to the Methodists, to the Baptists, to the Mennonites and to all the religious denominations in that country. Then we would find ourselves in this position. One school teaches what another school denies, in one school the dogmas of one Church are taught, and in anothe?' school the dogmas of another Church directly in oppo- sition to it are taught. Sir, I say that they have no right to do that at the expense of the State. Each Church should do that at its own expense. I say it is not the duty of the State to engage in such work, and I say that the State which undertakes to do it is making a great mistake. Moreover, Mr. Speaker, what is the experience of all countries in this respect ? We know that in almost every country where they hav(^ tried it, they are endeavoring to abolish, or have aljolished it to-day.
The Separate School system — the ecclesiastical system it may perhaps be more properly called — has always been a failure in edn jating the people. It is not the object of these ecclesiastical schools to
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oduciitc Qw ])('()plo ill tlic ordinary hraiiclieH of oduca- tion, l»nt till' o))j('ct is to inculcate tlio dogmas of tlieir Clmnli ; an<l tlio liistoiy of all couiitries proves, that they have always failed when they have nndertakon to teach, not only the do*;nuis of their C'hurch but to n;ive a general education. Why, sir, look at our own country. We <io to foreiiiii countries, and we see the failure of such echication there, but come <lown to our own countiy, and what do we find ? I have here a copy of the Montreal Gazette having information bearing on the (piestion, but before I refer to that, I will speak of the failure of such an educational system in other countries. They have tried tlui education of the people by the Church in all countries, and it is not confined to the Roman Catholics, because the Church of England, and the Methodists, have all liad more or less of the idea in their minds, that their school should be a church school. I repeat that it has been a failure, wherever that has been tried. In Belgium, which is almost exclusively a Roman Catholic country, they have made the schools non- sectarian, 'i'hey have taken away the sectarian schools and established non-sectarian schools in their place. In Italy they have done the same thing, and they had great need for it, and I am told they find the most satisfactory results from the change, because Italy, Avhich was the cradle of the arts, had degener- ated until almost half of the people were illiterate. Now Italy has adopted the system of non-sectarian schools .-nid the ])i'o])le are getting a good ('(luca-
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(ion. Ill Iri'laiid tlic same result lias Ixcn roiind, Tlicy liave cHtahliHlied a Hystciii ol' national s(*li(»ols tluTc. In every ])rovince of Anstraiia, tlie non- sect;ii'ian system of schools has heen estal)lishe(l. Then a|;ain, in the Unite<l States, our nean^st nei<ji;h- l)or, wo know that the greatest eHbrts have ])eeii niadc^ l)y the archbishops, and ])isliops, and priests, an<l all th(^ di;.jnitaries of th(; Churcli to attempt to fasten upon the states of the union a sectarian syst(>m of education. But, I believe that in every State of thtj American union to-day, the non-sectarian is the system of schools established V)y law. Here in (^aiuuhi, in the Province of Nova Scotia, in New Brunswick, in Prince Edward Island, and in J^ritish (^)lumbia, we have non-sectarian schools and the people get along without Separate Schools, In the Province of Ontario we have sectarian schools, but the fact is, that two-thirds of the Roman Catholic popula- tion are to-day being educated in the Public Schools. My honorable friend beside me says " No." Well, I make the statement, and I make it on good evidence, and I would ask that honorable gentleman to product; proof to the contrary. In the Province of Ontario two-thirds of the Roman (Jatholic pupils are e(lucate<l in the Public Schools, and there is no interference with their religious convictions there. They get the same fair-play as the Protestant pupils. I have the evidence of Roman Catholic people in the lo^'ality where I live that they are the strongest advocates of the Public School system under which they were
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rdiicitcfl Mm'IiiscIvcs, aiiil tlicy nrc ^^ood iiirnilM'is ol" Mmmi* (■luircli, too. In the Pi'ovinec! of (^MuOxc we have a systoTu of Scparat*; Schools, or ratlicr of i-('li<ri()UH soliools, and I will road an extract I'roni the I'cport of the Su|)('rinton(k'nt of Education for that province, as published in the Montreal Gazetfe. In his report for ItSl)'), Mr. Doucher de la Bruere says :
" The country schools ai'e not as jfoot] as they niii;ht he. The children leav(^ them without hiving i('e('i\(Ml a sutKciently lasting impression to mal\(> them wish to increase their knowled«^e. . . . To quote from one inspector's n^port, the slow increase in ctHeieiicy is due to the apathy of most of the memhci's of the School Hoard — too many of whom an^ unahle to read — U) the in<liflerence of ])arents to thi; miserahNi salai'ies j)aid to teachers, which mak*'H it difficult to ohtain eonipetent ones. ... In one district, another ins])ector declares, where 106 schools were in opei'ation, 3S teachers were without certificate's, and (J() the year before. . . . Most of the teachers arc; entirely ignorant of the first principles of pedafifo<^ics, have no system in their work, and content themselves by makinc;; their pupils learn their books by rote. . . . Tlie pupils recite their lessons fairly well, but without understanding their meaning. ... As it is declared that the average salary to teachers is, in ;ome districts, SlOcS foi ten months' work, and as some nnist get considerably less than this, and as these small wages are not always promptly paid, it is not dif^cult to understand wliat is behind the teachers' indifference. . . . To put it briefly, the people, in too many cases, do not appreciate their duty to their children in the way of education. They are content to fit them to be hewers of wood and drawers of
HON. N. CI.AKKK WAI.IwXCK.
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wutfT for tlicii* iiioiT rortuii.'itv or Itrtt*'!' (•<luc!i(c<| rcllow-citizciis."
Ill the face ol' that, I think it is not uiilnir to ask
those priests wlio h.'ivc! intercste*! th«'iiis('lv<'s so much
in tlie e<hicational ufruirs ol' tlie Pj'ovince ol' M}initol)a
to pay a little more attention to the e<liicational
affairs ol" the Province ol' Quebec, wiicre it is so l)a(liy
n«'ede(l. I have also a re])()rt in m}' hand upon tlie
operation ol' tlu' Separate Schoi*! system in this city of
Ottawa. In response to .i complaint which was made,
tlie Hon. iivo. \V. Koss, Minister of Education for tlw
Province of Ontario, a])pointed three connnissioners to
visit the Separate Schools in this city, and l ive them
full powers to in\ cstie-ate and i-eport. In that report.
the first thinu' that atti'acts mv attention is that tlu;
teachers, whose <luty it is to teach lo^^dty to the
children undei' tluni" care, were themselves <lisloyal,
disobeying;- the instructions of the Minister of Kduca-
tion, who had ample ])ower conferred upon him, and
who <lele<i^ated amph; power to tlu'si; connnissioners to
make the incpiiry they did. lleiv is a portion of their
re])ort :
" On arriving' at this school the next morniiif^", P)rother Director Mark informed them that ' his higher superi(jrs had oivcn instructions that he was not to allow the connnissioners to examine the classes.' They next visited La Salle school. Here they were received by Brother Director Philadelphus, who said ' he had orders not to allow the iiKpiiry in this school.'
" The commissi(jnei's retired,
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HON'. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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to tlic cxtiMit of the resistaiico to 1)0 oH('1"(m1, tlioy ivtuincd to i^.'i Sullo scliool, aiul wore iiifonnud })v Jji-otliei' Phihidclplms, tliat 'as soon as tlic coininis- sioiiers ciiterrd a room, a ])rother in cliari^c would \viivo liis class. The ]mpils would be allowed to remain, and })e at the disposal of the connnissioners. Xothinj;' would be said to them (pupils), to set them aj;*aiiist the conuiiissioni^rs, the teacher would not answr any ((uestions the connnissioners mij^ht ask him. He (teacher) would }j;'ive them no information refjjarding his class. In fact, the resistance to tlie in(juiry meant eveiythin;LJ^ short of usin<»' force.' This view of the ofheial instructions to the Brothers was confirmed by Bi-other Director Mark, on whom your connnissioners cabed a second time, and both gentle- men assured thi^ connnissioners that the same order had been issued to all the Brothers in the city."
These gentlemen found they could not resist the
commissioners, but would have to submit. Then the
commissioners proceeded to examine the classes, and
they say :
" Thus, in a class of fifty-one boys of an average age of over ten years, working in multiplication with a multiplier of three figures, not one had the correct answer to 7x8x2-3x7-7, written en the black- board in this form. In a class of thirty-one boys, of an average age of eleven, none had the right anrvver ->7x8x4-6-2x9. In the other classes only a few^ pupils got the correct result."
I might go on all through this l)ook and show^ per- haps, not as bad a state of things as this, because it could nou be worse, but a general \vant of pi'ogress in these schools. Kor instance, in a class of fifteen
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pupils, seven f}iile<l to ^^ive a single correct answer : in a class of thirty-nine pupils, ten failed to give a single correct answer; in a class of twenty-four pupils, eleven failed to give a single correct answer ; an<l so on. But I will not take up the time of the House in detailino; these facts, I will siniplv sav that all through this book is to be found evidence of the utter failure of the Separate School system in the city of Ottawa. If that be the history of these schools here, we do not need to go to the Province of IManitoba for evidence of the inefficiency of the Separate Schools there. We have the evidence furnished by the ^Manitoba Government, by the inspectors there, by all those in authority, that the whole system of Separate School education in ]ManitoV)a was utterly inefficient — that the pupils did not get that education which they might properly be expected to get, and therefore the system was changed and the Separate Schools were abolished.
Now, I said a moment ago that I thought those o-entlemen, the members of the hierarcliA^ in the Pro- vince of Quebec and in other provinces who were interesting themselves so much, might well devote their energies to improving their own schools, instead of attempting to force upon Manitoba a system of Separate Schools, which is not wanted by the people of tliat province. The utterances of these gentlemen are, in my opinion, utterly uncalled for, and are sub- versive of the freedom of the peo}>le of Canada ; and, if they are not so already, such utterances should
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
})(' iii;i<l(' contrary to tlio law. In every election tliiit takes place an attempt is made by these (^'entle- men to interfere and force their views, illegally, as I contend, on the people of the country. I will just I'ead to you a small portion of a letter written by Bishop Cameron, of Antigonish, during the recent election contest in the County of Cape Breton. In this letter he says :
" And yet we meet the appalling spectacle of a nud- titude of men who are loud in their prayers of liberty and justice and religion arrayed against I'einedial legislation, the only available means under the consti- tution of redressing that wrong, and then doing all they can to perpetuate the monster evil, sid^versive of I'eligion. justice and liberty, in order to attain their own selfish ends. In defiance of God, and to our shame, among those hell-inspii-ed hyp(jcrites. Catholics are to l)e found."
N(jw, Ml'. Speaker, I object personally to be put in that class even in such good company.
Mr. Foster — Your objections may not hold.
Mr. Wallace — I think they will hold with the
eoT)le of Canada. X(
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ow, we have anotner irentleman
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Archbishop Langevin, who makes a statement as to the duty of Catholics, with which I have not so much to do, except to say that no archbishop has the right, nder the laws of this country, to interfere with the
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free exercise ol' mens Noting jwwei'. He has the right to exercise his fi-anchise without intei'l'ei'ence IVom anybody, but the laws ol' this country prevent an employer from intimidating an employee and prevent
HON. N. CLAKkE WALLACi:.
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one man interfering witli another. And tliey apply exactly to this case. Archbishop Langevin says as follows :
"It has been said, falsely, that the (Vitholic hie- rarchy in this Dominion of ours, is to settle the sehool ([iiestion. No, the Catholic heirarchy — you know it, and I can say it plainly — the Catholic hierarchy lead the Catholics in their religious convictions, and all those who do not follow the hierarchy aj-e not Catholic'>. When the hierarchy has spoken thei-c is no use for any Catholic to say the contrary, for if he does he is not longer a Catholic; such a man may carry the title, but I declare this as a bishop : I say to-night, and I say it with plain authority, a Catholic wlio does not follow the hierarchy on the school (juestion is no more a Catholic, and who will be the one to entitle such a one to the name of Catholic ^''
Now, I contend that that is an intolei-ablc species of intimidation. The Roman Catholic bishops have no right to intimidate any voter by any such penal- ties. We know that the members of the lioman Catholic Church, like the members of every other Church, desire to be in good standing with tlieii- Church; and therefore, when they ai'e read out of tliat body, when they are deprived of those adNantagcs which the Church says it confers on members in good standing, because they do not choose to follow the dictates of that Church upon any ([uestion, that is an intolerable interference with the liberty of the subject.
r«ut we ha\(' still fui'ther an ultimatum from the
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HON. N. CLAI{KE WALLACE.
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Rev. M. M. P«i(jU(3t, from Laval University, wlio writes to the press as follows :
" Rev. L. A. Paqiiet, of Laval University, in con- formity to the desire of the episcopal authority of his diocese, Archbishop Bej^in, and with his express approval wrote to L'Eve'xeitient a two-column letter on February 18th, from which the following is taken :
" Is it not infinitely better, therefore, that, haviiio- the right and tlie occasion, the central pcjwer should raise up a rampart of religious justice and protection, that will resist all winds and all tempest ? I may add that, given a party spirit which so profoundly divides our public men, it is not from a particular political group that we can look for the force of union necessary to rally under the same banner all Catholics. The hierarchy alone can hope to produce this union by calling upon our legislators, and especially upon those whose conscience it controls, to rise for a moment above the temporal interests which animate them to forget their political divisions and, taking the judg- ment of the Privy Council of England as their starting point to make it a solid basis of a truly remedial law. To the ecclesiastical power, then, belongs the right to judge whether the interference should take place in the form of conmiand or of counsel."
It evidently has taken the form of command in some cases :
" And when the interference takes an imperative form, as in the case of the Manitoba schools, only one thing r(!mains to l)e done by the faithful, and that is to obey."
An lion. Member — That strikes you.
Mr. Wallace — No, but I am afraid it does strike
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some ill tliis Houho, because I rtjineiiiber liearing that the lion. meinl)er for Ottawa County (Mr. Devlin) who went down to Cape Breton, was one of the loudest there in his desire to resent any attempt at interference.
Mr, Devlin — Were you tliere ?
^[r. Wallace — I was not, but I was told it by a member of Parliament who was there : and we are now told by the public press that the lion. g«uitleman is now in the position of Davy Crockett's coon who exclaimed, " Don't shoot. Colonel, I will come down." And the hon. gentleman has come down. Mr. Paijuet went on to say :
"And when that interference takes the imperative form, as in the case of the Manitoba schools, only one thing remains to be done by the faithful, and that is to obey."
Now, I see that the functionaries of the Roman Catholic Churcli claim that it is the duty, not only of the electors l)ut of members of Parliament, to obey them, and that is another interference or attempted interference with the rights and freedom of tlie Canadian people, which should not be tolerated, and will not be tolerated either.
NoAV, a good deal has been said about a commission to investigate this matter ; and I think the hon. member for Winnipeg (Mr. Martin) was loudest in his demand for a commission. Why, what does he want a commission U)v { Is it to get at the facts { I am told he is the author of this Act of iNitO, which we
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HON. N. CLAllKE WALLACE.
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are called on to abolish, and snrely he made a lull investi<^ation before framing that Act. If he did not, lie sluMild have, before he undertook to pass that law. We heaid that he made an investigation and that he Found th<( Separate Schools were very defective — not oidy defective but utterly useless — and should Ikj abolished, and they were abolished accordingly; and I cannijt st!e (ixactly why he should demand a com- mission or what good a commission could do him. 1 suppose his intention is to enlighten his fellow-mem- Ihm-s on this subject. But there is another way of proceeding. While I think a commission is utterly unnecessary, I believe that a convention or a meeting of the two governments, or of representatives of these two governments, would have smoothed away many of the difficulties which are now presented to us. But some say : But you are opposed to Separate Schools altogether. So I am. I do not think this bill should have been brought into the House of Connnons at all. I do not think that a Separate School Bill should be passed anywhere. But, if the Province of Manitoba, after passing a Separate School Bill, choose to reverse their decision, that is a thing with which the other provinces have no right to interfere. The Confedera- tion Act gives the various provinces power to establish Separate Schools if they so desire, and I presume it is not the business of any other province to interfere with them if they embody tlia- desire in the shape of a statute. So that, if there are any grievances of any kind — which I cannot see, for my pai't — the people of
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Hon. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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tlio Province of M{initol)<i aro tlie people to reiin'<ly tliose grievances. But they have stated that tliey will not establish a system of Separate Schools in the c<juntry, because they have had experience of Scj^arate Schools, and they have hail an experience of a Pul)lic ScIkjoI system, and they jirefei the latter to the former.
I am sorry that the (|Uestion has been brou^'lit before the House of Commons, and that it has bceomi; a bone of contention in every province of the Dominion. For this airitation is not confined to the Pro\inc»' of Manitoba, but is goino- on in every province. At .-i time when the people of Canada should l)e, if possible, more united than ever; at a time when the Old Land is menaceil and threatened by enemies who arc jealous of her greatness, her power, and her pre-ciiiinence among the nations, instead of bringing in here a [iro- posal that must divide the people of Cannula, wti should carefully avoid all such ([uestions an'3 should join together, as we did in the resolutions passed the other day, and, presenting a united front, should be ready to assure the people of Great Britain that we have sunk our minor differences, and are determined to do our duty as a portion of the great Empire In maintaining its supremacy both on sea and on lan<l. In this view, it is all the more unfortunate that we have this bill and this contentious subject thrust upon the people. I hope the bill will not become Irw, for, if it does, it will only mark the connuencement <jf litiii'ation and serious distuid)ance throui^hout the
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HON. N. (M.AIIKE WALLACE.
Dominion. The niattur (lous not end with the pussagts ol' tliis bill, for the bill itself provides for further le;;"islation. And we know that the people of Manitobji will resist as strongly as they can, le<4ally ami con- stitutionally, the attempt to force \i\Hm them a. system of education obnoxious to them. They will bring the bill before the courts, testing its constitu- tionality and in every other constitutional way they will resist it. I shall, therefore, have pleasure in recording niy vote against the bill and in favor of the six months' hoist, as moved by the lion, leader of the Opposition.
Then, when two days after, the news I'eached us i/hat T. S. Sproule, M.P.,had followed in the same line, going fully into the history of the whole matter, we felt assured that Manitoba would not be coei"Ced, and coerced she has not been. And now we deem it oidy I'ight to place that speech so able and opportune beside that the reader has already perused.
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SPEErH OF T. S. SPROULE, M.P., OX THE PtEME])IAL A("r, MAMToliA.
Ottawa, Tluu'sday, M;ircli '^tU, lSi)(j.
j\ri'. Spkoule — In rising to continue tliis debate I must first express the regret whicli I exi)erience in heing obliged to differ with political friends with wlioni I liave been associated for a longtime and with whose lines of policy I have usually worked in hearty accord. It is a matter for regret amongst politicians on either side of the House when they find themselves out of accord with the political j^arty with which they have worked many years, an<l you readily understand, Mr. Speaker, as I have no doubt the House does, that it is a very strong provocation which will induce any member of Parliament to go against his own political party. It is only the conscientious convictions which I hold on this ([uestion, and the inter[)retati(jn which I put upon the constitution that we ha\'e heard so much about of late, and the understa? ling I have with reii'ard to th(^ rijifhts of the majorities and ndnoriti(!S, that induce me to take the stand which
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for North Grey (Mr. Masson) my colleat^ue, who spoke on this (question last night, said that it is not usual for the Government to submit a ([Uestion to the people by way of a plebiscite : but they go up and down the country, and hold meetings; they watch the press of the country, and by that means endeavor to ascertain the sentiments of the people, and then to keep themselves in accord with those sentiments in discharo'inp- their duties as legislators or as a Government. Now, if that be the case, and I presume it is a fair exposi- tion of the case, I wonder how lion, gentlemen sup- porting the Government of the day and composing the Government of the day can justify their posi- tion upon this (|uestion, or pretend to say that they are in accord with the sentiment of the country. At the outset, I may say that I regret to find that the Government are, in my judgment, so much out of accord with the sentiment of the couin.i'y. Why do 1
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sny so ? How do I cstiinate or ^hu^c i>ul)lic scntinn-nt on this matter ? I take the press of the country, from one end of it to the other, especially that ])ress wliieli represents the political party to which I hrjonn-, and which <'ndeavorH to give voice to tlieir sentiments, to def(Mid their policy, to support their conduct; and I say that the Government nuist ret^rct to-day to find that there is scarcely an important Conservative paju-r which is dcn'endino- them and their policy in endeav- orin<^^ to pass the hill that is hefore the House. If vou ii'o from Pi-ince Edwanl Island in the east to Vic- toria, in the west, and look over the Conservative papei's in this country, I think you mio-ht count on the live tinkers of your hand all those that come out and *j;ive a straie-htforward support of this measure, and of the policy of the (iiovernment in attem])tinuj to ])ass it. Then I take the independent pivss of the country. I mio-ht mention a few of them, hut they are so well known to this House and to the people that it is scarcely necessary for me to do so. But it would not he out of place to ask, in reference to those |)apers that have supported the Government so strongly in the past, where ai-e they to-day ^ The only one that is giving even a half-hearte<l support to their policy is the Mail and Empire, of Toronto: and yet it has never, so far as my judgment enables me to understand it, adduced an}' respectable argument either to defend o'- justify their coui'se to-day. if v.-e leave out of account the Mail and Empire, where do we find the rest of the papers? Where do vve tind
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the World, (lie next ^^rcatcst exponent of the princi- ples of tlie ( /onscrvativo party? \\v find tlwit it is arrayed aijainst tluidloverinnent's eoursc on tlii.s (iU(;h- tion. W'henMlo we find tlie Toronto Newsl Where do we find the Toronto Tele<)rani ? Where do find wo the Toronto Star? Where do we find tlie Hamilton Spectator? I mi^ht f(o over the whole list, and T find in alnio.st every instance that those papers are arrayed against tlie [)arty, and they believe that they are voicinf]r the {)ul»lic sentiment. Then, it* they are voicinnj public sentiment, how can the Government to-day be in accord with that public sentiment ? It" it be the duty of the Government to reflect public si^nti- ment in their letrislation, then I ask how can they S(juare this le^isbition with the sentiment of the country, as expressed by these papers ? Now we are told by the hon. member for North Grey that in order to ascertain what public sentiment is, the Government go out into the country and hold poli- tical meetinf^s. Well, if I take the expression of the public meetings that have been held in this country, do I find any stronger evidence of public sentiment being with them than it is as expressed through the press ? I can assure you that the verdict of the people is to the contrary, as expressed in public meetings that have been held for the last two or three years in every part of the country. Why, they have scarcely gone upon a single platform and dared to say that in the end they were bound to pass reme- dial legislation, and asked the electorate of this
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coiiiilry to endorse ifc, Mild where the elector.ite h.i\e (Midnrso<l it. When tlioy went into North ()iitMrio Mini pnt up tlieir candidato, what Wi'vv, tliey o])liL,^ed to do ? They wcM'e ohli^ed to have thoir candi<lMl(! keep from th(! knowlcdjjf! oi' Mu» electoi'ato his int(^ii- tioii re;^ar<lin}^ remedial kMjislation, as they knew, othcrwisi!, that ho couhl not receive the support of tli(^ ])eo])lo. I ask tlie hon. gentleman fi'oni North ( )ntario (Mr. Mc(iillivrMy) what cour.se did lie take in tiyin;; to induce the electorate to sujiport him ? He sMi<l: J am not ^oinn^ to lie ])lod«^ed in this matter: hut 1 point you to my record in the past as to what you may exjiect from me in tlu; i'uture. Hav(^ I uot ^^()]\r. throueh two or three political ti^^lits in the i'rovince- of Ontario ?
Mr. McGlLLlVRAY — The hon. ^^entleman is mis- statinjjj my position in North Ontario.
Mr. Spkoule — In what respect, I would like to know, am I misstating the hon. gentleman's position ? I was going on to say that according to what I read in the papers which reported him pretty extensively, his lanfjuaore was to this effect : The electorate of this county know my record, because I have fought two political fights in provincial campaigns on this question. They know the stand I have taken on the question of Separate Schools ; they know what I have said. Now, then, I tell you that I am standing to-day upon the same ground that I have always stood. Now, Mr. Speaker, what was that ground ^ Was it in sup- port of a remedial law which would force Separate
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Scliools on Manitoba, or was it aj^ainst it ? Wliy, if I understand the ground the hon. gentleman has taken in the past, it was that when Ontario and Quebec entered into a compact at the tinic of Confederation, they accepted these Separate Scliools as an arrange- ment between the two provinces. They are here to stay, and we cannot help it. But I shall never sup- ])ort their extension into any other province or any othei" ])iivt of the country. Tliat was the record upon which that hon. gentleman sought election, and it was upon that record that the people accepted him. But had that hon. gentleman come out plainly and told tlic electorate of North Ontario : I am going downi to \ote for remedial legislation — I am assured by men wlio ought to know tlie situation, that he would liaxc been burie<l under a majority of nearly a thou- sand votes in his own riding. Is that an evidence that the (Government are fully entitled to accept as voicing public sentiment in favor of this legislation ? No; I say it is not. Then ii' I go to Cardwell, what does ])ublic sentiment tell me there ^ It te'ls me that the Government candidate who had apparently, at least, come out and adnutted that he was prepared to sup- port the policy laid down I)}' the Government upon this ([Uestion of reme<lial legislation, was buried under a hopeless mass of votes ; he was buried so far as his ])olitical life is concerned, never to rise again, at least in that constituency. But the hon. gentleman who frankly opposed the policy of remedial legislation, wa,s a,cco.rd(Ml the support of the majoi'ity of the
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voters of Cardwcll, aii<l })ul)lic Mcntiiiieni <lecl{ii-ed against interference witli Manitoba. Tlien the (Jov- ernnient went dovvni to Montreal Centi-e and tested public sentiment there. But did public sentiment endorse the h'gislation they ])ro])()se to-<lay? No, sir; but tin; candidate who was put uj) to oppose them now sits in this House in opposition to the (Jovernment. Then they tested public sentiment in Jac((ues Cartier, and met with the same response. Look also at the result of their efforts in Vercheres. In fact, in almost every constituency wIkmu' they have tested puV)lic sentiment up to the present tinie, they have been defeated. They went down to Cape Breton to elect the hon. Secretary of State, and by a here lean effort, by dint of exercising all the })owei- tlH3y could bring to bear, they did maiuifacture sutHcient public sentiment to endorse tlieir present coui'se. But I f ay there are many men of intelligence to-day who, as I read in the public press, are observing the signs of the times as indicated in the way w'e judge public sentiment, and who have come to the conclusion that the voice of the country is against the (iiovei-nmentin this attempt to interfere w'ith the rights of Manitoba. There is no mistaking it, and if hon. gentlemen consti- tuting the Government do not believe it to-day, a time wmII come when they will recognize it, when at the elections the people will speak with a voice so strong that they cannot misunderstand it, and many mem- bers who now fail to recognize t!;at Noiec, as indicated by public sentiment, will be left in the minority aftei'
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tlio vutos liavc buen counted, and they will then recog- nize that they misunderstood public sentiment and acted contrary to it.
Mr. Sproule — Mr. Speaker, in eontinuin^ij the de- bate on this most important subject, I may refer for a few seconds to the portion of it under consideration when you left the Chair at six o'clock. I was endeavorinfif to give then what, according to my judgment, was public opinion and public sentiment on this measure, and how far they were in accord with the action of the Government in dealin"; with this most important measure. There is no doubt that no (juestion which has engaged the attention of Parliament for a great many years in this country is regarded as of as much importance as the one before the House to-day. On this (juestion above all others, you might naturally look to the press of the country for an exposition of public sentiment, and also as manifested by public gatherings, through churcli assemblies and similar channels. I was endeavoring to show that if we examine the press of the country there can be no mistake as to what public sentiment is, because while the press supporting the Govern- ment in their policy, their National Policy, their measures relating to the fast steamship line and the development of trade, and on almost every other line of policy which has been under consideration during the last fifteen or sixteen years, those journals have been notably silent as reu-ards saving" anything endors-
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iiij'' tlic measure now under the consideration of tlie House. On tlie contrary, tliere is scarcely a Conser- vative paper in the country but lias given out some discordant sound, some note of warnini?;, some suij-ires tion which mioht induce the Government to abandon what very many regard as an insane course they ar<' following at the present time and desist I'rom seeking to force on an unwilling province a bill that will take away rights that every province has heretofore enjoyed, which the Province of Manitoba has hereto- fore enjoyed, and which in the opinion of the large majority of the people it should enjoy in the future. So far as my judgment goes, there can be no mistake as to what public opinion is. Then if the (Joveni- ment are running counter to public o])inion and thereby lose the support of their own friends, tlujy should not blame their friends, but rathei- blame their own blindness that leads them in a channel which compels their friends to desert them.
Why do I oppose this bill at the present time ? I oppose it because it is making a serious iiu'oad on principles which have been heretofore regarded as sound. What are those principles? This bill is interfering in the first place with the rights of the Province. There is no one who is ac(|uainted with the history of Canada and has watched closely afljni's during the last twelve or fifteen years who faile(l to regard with a good deal of suspicion anything that
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antagonism between any provi ice and the Federal
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Government, ],>ecause wc have had weveral fitjjlits in tin's country on that line, and the lesson taught is to avoid in t*UuUr<! as much as possil)le any interference with the rio-hts of the provinces. Only a few years a<;'o we had a very great struggle (^n provincial rights, it occurring on the Streams Bill. Two or three enactments were passed by the Provincial Legislature, Thry were disallowed by the Dominion Government on the ([Uiistion as to the right of a province to control streams within its own territories. What was the result? When the (question was taken tri the courts, the highest court of the Empire decided against the Dominion. In tlie meantime a very stronji" feelin"- had been aroused. The ai^itation that had l)een carried on against the Dominion Govern- ment for interfering with what a great many regarded as the rights of the Province had created a feeling of antagonism against the Dominion Government, which threatened to be very serious. But for the fact that the highest court of the Empire decided against the Dominion Government and i favor of the Provincial (lovernment controlling tho ights, we do not know how the aoitation would '>; e ended, or what dis- astrous results would have tlowed from it. Then we had a struggle as regards the claims of a province to own minerals and timber. This again involved the ((uestion of provincial rights, and ended in a decision against the Dominion, and the Province was secured in the rights which it enjoys to-day, and which the people thought they were entitled to enjoy at that
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time. Tluit coiiti^titioii also raist'<| a o^roat (Iml of agitation. This a»j;Mtation wliich went on, intensified and accentnatcd the feeling' that tlie ])i-ovinces shonld know what rights helongetl t(3 tlieni, and he accorded tliose rights witliout any interference. Tlien we luicl a (juestion of provincial rights soniewliat similar to the very important (|Uestion which is now nnder discus- sion. Hon. gentlemen will remember that we pa :,ed the Canadian Pacific Railway Act, and by that Act we practically took away the right of the Pro\'ince to charter local railways, a right which all the provinces had enjoyed up to that time; or, in other words, we put a monopoly clause in the charter of the company, which prevented the Manitoba Government from exercisino- what was the undoubte<l riaht of everv province, to grant charters for railways within iis own territory. What was the result ^ A very serious fight took place, a very strong agitation was carried on. It was considered a grievance which at the time was iilHcult to remove. And what was the result of that ao-itation, and what was the result of that strife ^ We were obliired to buv back that monopoly from the Canadian Pacific Railway at a very great cost, for the jjurpose of appeasing the feeling and the anxiety of Manitoba, and we were obliged to give them back the power which they thought, under the constitution, they should enjoy, and which they complained was unfairly taken from them. Until that was done we had nothing like a settlement of that ([Uestion. All these things ha\'e
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tended to orciiti' a reeling- ol* antnj^onisiii lu'twoon the Governineiil of Manitoba and the Doniiriion Parlia- ment. Then, after that, we liad what was known as the Jesuits' Estates Act. That was a question dealt with in this House and discussed at very great length. Upon what ground did we, who voted with the (Jos crnnieiit upon that occasion, justify the vote which we gave • It was solely upon the ground — I speak at least for myself — that we were upholding the rights of the Province of Quebec. We got our infoi'mation upon tliat <[uestion from a source whicli would be regarded as sufficient authority to s-itisfy most niend)ers of the House. We ii'ot our advice from the late Riaht Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald, W^e were told that at Confederation the rights of the pi'o- vinces were laid down, and amongst these undoubted rights were : first, the control of the land within their l)ounds, to sell that land, to give it away, or to use it as they saw tit. We were told that the right of the control of educational ati'airs rested with the pi-o- vinces. We were told that it did not mattei* whether it accorded with the views of the majority of the Dominion Parliament or not the rio'ht of the Province was to control its elucational affairs. We were told that, so long as the provinces raised money accoi'ding to the ways laifl down in the British North America Act, it did not matter how they spent it. It was said to us, that the ])rovinces might grant licenses to raise mone}', or they might sell their lands to raise mone}^ ; bul. so Ion:-' as llicv raised It nocoi'dino- to the mnsti-
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tutioii, they could use it for any purpose they desired, no matter whether it was agreeable to outsiders or not. I remember distinctly putting a ([uestion to the Right Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald about that. I said : Suppose that a Province should pass a law to use money for a purpose which, in the judgment of the Dominion Parliament, and in the judgment and the wisdom of the people of Canada, would be detri- mental to the interests of the Dominion, or to the interests of the other provinces, or even to the interests of the Province itself, wcjuld the Dominion Parliament be justitied in vetoing that law (* And Sii" John Macdonald's answer was : So long as they raised that money in the manner laid down under the con- stitution it is a matter of unconcern to us, and it is none of our business, if they pitched that money into the St. Lawrence or into the tire. And he further said : They have sold a portion of what was tlieir own land, and they have raised money ; tht^y are now using this money on educational lines, and they an; entitled to do so, and, whether it is agi-eeable or dis- agreeable to us, it is the right of the Province, ind we must be satisfied with it. Upon that understanding, ami believing the right hon. gentleman to be a greater authority than I on provincial rights, alth(nigh it was against my judgment, and although it was against the judgment of my constituents, I su})ported the Government on that occasion. And, sir, I remember that the Right Hon. Sir John Macdonald said, in answer to the same (|uestion ; It ma}' come
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liack to you in llic I'loviiicc^ ol ' )Mt;iri() to-morrow, and liow couM you !)(' so hieonsi. stent as to (Appose tho riij^ht of the Province ol' Quebec to deal with her own land, her own ntoney, and Iier own ducf'^ion, if, on a similar (juestion arising- in the Pro\ ' ' ' ; >t Gauirio, you were obligetl to vote the other way 'iiivsewere the arguments then used by Sir John Macdon{.i.>\ in the case ol" the Jesuits' Estates Act.
Now, sir, I re<;ard this present (juestion as being on the same lines. Manitoba has seen fit to deal w'ch education. It is the rij^ht oi' that province to deal with that matter. It is true, it is said, that Manitoba can deal with it only within certain limits. I admit, there is a proviso in that, but it has been the gener- ally accepted principle heretofore that every province had the uncontrolled right to deal with education, and every province had used that right according to its will, and there has been no interference with it up to the present time. This is the first time in Canadian history that we have been asked to interfere with that right of a province. We are asked now to endorse a principle, the very opposite of the principle we stood by, when the Province of Quebec was making a fight for her rights. We stood by the Pro- vince of Quebec then on a (piestion which was very unpopular with us, which, in the judgment of many, was wrong ; but we stood by the principle, believing that w^e stood up for the rights of a province. If that rule is applied to the Province of Quebec, then, why sh()n]<l it n<jt Ixi ap])li(Ml to the Province of
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Mi'Uiitohil lo-(l;iy '. 'I'lir sjuiic tliat aj)))li«'s to one should apply to tlic otlier: tliu same rinlits tlu- one province lias, the other ]ii(jvince oiioht to enjoy. Sir, I oppose this bill because it prevents the will of the majority from beino* carried out. 'i'he invarial)le principle is, that majorities nnist rule. Some say, that majorities should not always rule, but they do rule in every walk (jF life. If you o() into a business corporation, the majority rules; if you ^o to a church
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Mr. Devlin — If you ^o to Turkey, the majority rules, too.
Mr. Mills (Annapolis) — And the majority in heathen countries rules.
Mr. Sproule — I am talking- abcnit civilized life, as we understand it in the British Empire. I say that in every part of the British Empire it is re(;arded as the correct principle that the majority shall rule, and whatever decision the majority comes to, it is gener- ally recognized to be right. Now, it does not matter whether you apply the principle to a township council or to a municipal corporation, the principle that the majority rules "s the principle that liolds good. Why should a rule the reverse of this })e applied to the Province of Manitoba i In th<.' Pr(j- vincial Legislature there, the majority rules. In this very House the majority rules by their voi^e. Whether the minority acquiesces in the principle.-> pronuilgated or not, it does not matter: the majority
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rul(!s. '[Iw, I'roviiico of Manitoba lifts ri;^hts, oi- sho thinks she has ri^'hts, which sho was entitled to enjoy, rod, according to her understanding of her rights, she is dealing with a question in which slie is vitally intcn-ested. A large majority of her people hav^e come to the solemn conclusion, th.vt it is in their interests and the interests of their province, that tluy siiall in future have a different system of education from what they had had up to the year 1890. And yet to-day we are trying to prevent that inajoi'ity from ruling in the Province of Manitoba. We ai'o told, that this is something embodied in the constitu- tion, and that therefore it should be held most sacred, and we should not disturb it. Tliere is no doubt there is some show of argument for those who hold that view, and I will deal with it later on. I have here the debates which took place in 1865 and 1800, when they were trying to bring about Confederation, and 1 have looked at the discussions which took place upon the resolutions on which the Bi'itish Ncji'th America Act was l'>unded. I see here one of the; eminent men of that day, forecasting what might be the dangeious residl, if yo\i insist in taking away the rights of the majorities. And to-day, in the light of expei-ience, it seoris to me to be verified to the letter. John Sandfield Macdonald, who was a Roman Catholic, was speaking against that provision of this resolution, which was intended to place upon provinces rights for minorities which could never be changed, no iiiattei' what the changed condition of the country or
Hon. n. <'Iw\i{KK \vai-i,a( k.
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cliar.'icU'r of tlio pi'0])lc. Mt^ iiio\t«l a ii'solution in opposition to tluit, and, in supporting his n-solution, he 8aid :
"I rise, sir, to propose another anienthnent. I can assui-e the Hoiwe that I never i<new a measure oi" anytliinu- like this in importance <^o through witli so few attempts to amend it. Nor do I rise for the mere purpose of puttin*;* my amendment on record, for I do feel that the views I aui about to express, and which I have ever held since I have heen a mcmbei' of this House may not connnend themselves to any c(jnsider- able nund)er of the members. I liave no desire that the ri^-hts of tlie Roman Catholic nnnority of Upper Canada should be abridged."
He had no desire that they should be abridj^ed, but he refused to endorse the principle that the resolution ((ranting them should be perpetual.
" I have no desire that the rights and privilen;es of any other denomination sliall be interfered with in any respect; but I wish hon. memljers to bear in mind that the experience we have liad in this country, not to allude to that of the neighboriiiL;' State, ])roves that a denial of the right of the majority to legislate on any given matter has always led to grave con- sequences. I need only mention the Clergy Reserve (juestion. This, it must be recollected, was forbidden to be legislated upon by the Union Act; yet it was the cause of fierce strife and legislation for many vears. The oriofinal constitution of the Lhiited States prohibited the question of slavery from being inter- fered with by Congress ; yet an agitation for its sup- pression was early commenced, and has at last ter- minated in civil wai-. The agitation oi' the Clergy
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licsrivf i|iiustioii |»i<)iliRM'<| a rclx'llioii in r|>|)cr ('anada. I say, sir, (liut l)y inalsin;;" a coiistitutioiial restriction in respect to tlie scliools ol' the miiioi'ity, we am Howinir tlu3 seeds from vvliicli will in tlie end arise a serious conflict, unless tlie constitution ne anientjed. 'I'lie minority will lu* sale on a (juestion relatiuL;' to tlieir i'aith and tlieir education in a colony undei- tli(! sway of the IJritish Crown; hut if you expressly withdraw that questicjn fi'om the control of the majority, the ri<^hts of the minority will not be safe in either section of the Province, if you distrust the action of the majority. It is our duty, sir, to see that a (piestion which affects us so dearly as the edu- cation of our children — a (jUestion which has before now create(l no little excitement in l-pper Canada — shall not V>e withdrawn from the manaj^ement of the Local Legislature. We ouji^ht not to <leprive them of a power which they will want to exercise, just because they are deprived of it, and provoke a <lesire on their part to alter tlie system. You may rely upon it other religious bodies will be sure to protest a<^ain.st any particular creed having special rights, or an exclusiv(! monopoly of certain privileges, whatever they may be. 1 should l)e astonished if anyone in this House would say, either to the Protestant minority in Lower CMnada or to the Roman Catholic minority in Upper (Canada : " You are not to trust to the justice of the majority." Have they ever known a country where the majority did not control affairs and where the minority had not to submit ?
And yet we are asked to-day to prevent the majority in Manitoba controlling the affairs of that province, although we have never known a civilized country where it was not the case that the majority conti'olled and the minority submitted. He goes on :
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"Does not the iiiajority rule and tlie minority sul)- iiiit ill Kiit^land ami in Franco ? I liavf nover Iward of any caiso where thi.s was not the case. 'I'hr minority is safe a<^ainst uiuhic encroacluiient on its ri^lit, ami I am wiUin;^ to trnst to the s»'nse ol' justice of the majority of Upjier Canada to ])res('rve the rdi^'ioiis ami educational liberties oi* the Roman ('atholiesot' I pper Canada. I am now ^ettin^ somewhat ad- N'anciMl in years, and I am the more an.xious to put my opinions on record, because before lon;^ I shall have the satisfaction (jf sayiiifif, thou;^di |)eiha|>s not on the floor of this House, that I ])rotest(?<l a^^ainst resolutions intended to prevent the free exj)ression of opinion by the majority of tlie peo])Ie of CpjxM' ('ana<hi, and the exercise of a i)OWer which ouj^lit to be entrusted to them."
We can see to-(hiy, in the li^ht of experience, the foresififht and intelli^'ence of the late »Iolin SandtieM ]\Iacdonald in the forecasting what might be the result if the rights of the majority in a province were taken away, and tliey were not allowed to exercise the rights that belong to every civilized country. He went on to move a resolution as follows :
"That the following words be added to the original motion : ' And that it be an instruction to the said committee to consider whether any constitutional restriction which shall exclud from the Local l^egis- lature of Upper Canada the entire control and direction of education, .subject oily to the approval or disapproval of the general Parliament, is not calcu- lated to create widespread dissatisfaction, and tend to foster and create jealou.sy and strife between the various religious bodies in that section of the rrovmce.
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He goos on to say :
" If lion, gentlemen think they are going to silence the bitter feelings which have been engendered in Upper Canada in consetjuence of the attempt to make ])ermanent a certain system of education, they are mistaken : and I desire to liave the expression of the opinion of the members of this House on the subject, whether they think that the restriction in the pro- ])Osed constitution I have mentioned is calculated to bring aboi;L harmony, and whether it is not better to let the Catholics of Upper Canada and the Protestants of Lower Canada protect themselves, or rather trust for protection to the sense of justice of their fellow- subjects."
An hon. gentleman who opposed that motion said :
"Though I am against the Separate School system, I am willing to accept this Confederation, even though it perpetuates a small number of Separate Schools. Under the present legislative union we are powerless in any movement for the abrogation of the Separate system ; it is even very doubtful if we could resist the demands for its extension. We will not be in any worse position under the new system, and in one respect we will have a deci<led advantage, in that no further change can be made by the Separate School advocates. We w^ll thus substitute certainty for uncertainty. I deeply regret that the hon. mend)er should have tliought it necessary for any pur[)ose U) move this i-esolution."
He did not contemplate any further changes, but he was willing to accept what was then in existence in Upper and Lower Canada.
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Mr. J3EVL1N — Who held that hinmiiio-c ?
Mr. Sprg JLE — It was Mr. A. Mackenzie.
Mr. Devlin — The hite Hon. Alexander Mackenzie ?
Mr. Sproule — Yes, I think so. Now, I think I have made clear two things. The first is that it was never contemplated at Confederation to eompci any province that came into the union to acce})t Separate Schools, but only to accept the solemn com- pact made between Tipper and Lower ^'anada, and to act on the understan<lino- that that compact should be carried out. Acting;' on that understanding;, in two or three local elections in the Province of Ontario in which the school question engaged a great deal of attention, I steadily refused to say one word against Separate Schools in Upper or Lower Canada, because I considered that under the solenui compact made at Confederation, the rights enjoyed by the minorities in the two provinces should be maintained. P]ut 1 held that it was never contemplated, when Confederati(m was broucfht about, that simi\'ir rio;hts shoidd be extended to every province that came into the union, and I am justified in that belief by the resolutions that were moved at that time. Some say that we arc l)()und not (mly to give Separate Schools to cNcry province that comes into the union, but after it comes in, and it engrafts on its statutes some ])rivil<'g(' in regard to schools that may or may not be justitialde, that privilege nmst remain there forever. 1 say there is nothino; in the resolutions to warrant that e(jnten- tion. In readinii' the resolutions assigning to the
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h'^islaturcs of the provinces the sul>jects wliieli tliey could control, I find this laid down:
"The Local Legislature shall have power to maki^ laws respecting the t'ollowin|^ subjects:"
Aniono- these is :
" Education, saving the rights and privileges which the I'rotestant or Catholic minority in both Canadas may possess as to their denominational schools at the tinu' when the union goes into operation."
I)ut it says nothing about the same right being extended to any other province that may come in. That was the solemn understanding come to when these resolutions went to the Home (.jrovernment as a basis for legislation. But we are told to-day : " Oh, but the British North America Act says so-and-so." In the Legislature one honorable gentleman got np and contended that the bill that passed the Iinpei'ial Parliament should not become law until it was sub- mitted to the Parliament of Canada, and the Parlia- ment of C^anada had an opportunity of expressing its opinion upon it, and either assenting to or dissenting from it ; and also until there was an appeal to the people upon it. One reason he gave for that view was : We know b}^ experience, he said, that it some- times happens that we make laws on certain lines ; but if, after these laws have been made and become constitutional law\s, certain provisions are found in them that were never contemplated, we ought to have some opportunity of examining them before we are
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLA :E.
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asked k) MsstMit to tlx-iii. In opposition to tlmt, tlic Attorney-General, wlio wiis at'tervvanls Sii" ( icoi-o-c Cartier, spok(.' as follows :
" In reply to what tlie lionoral)l(' iiiemlxn- for ITochelaoa has just sai<l, I shall iiierely tell the hoiior- al>i(! members of this House that they need not take any alarm at the apprehensions and the predictions tliat the honorable «^entleman has made"
Tliat was the danger of something creepin*;' into tlie law which it was nevei- contemplated should be ' inbodie(] in it.
" I have already declared, in my own name and on behalf of the (government, that the d<'l('i^'ates who o'o to England will accept frcjiii the Imperial (ilovern- ment no act but one based on the resolutions Noted by tills House, and they will not break faith in order to brino- back any other. (Hear hear.) I will pled^-e my hoiioi' and that of the (jrovernment to that eti'ect, and I trust mv word of honor will, at least, have as much weio-ht with the House and the comitry as that of the honorable member for Ilochelaea, (Cheers,)"
And it was acu'epted on that i;-i'oiuid, but there was the resolution, thei'e was what the Provincial Lee-isla- ture was to have, the right to C(»ntrol education, save only as regards the compact entered into between the two Canadas. But afterwards, in clause D-S of the British North America Act, an impi-o\ement was introduced that j''oes exen further than that. It sa\'s :
" All the powers, privileges and duties at tin- union by law conferred and im])osed ju Tppei" C'lUMdj' o)>
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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the Separato Schools and scliool ti'ustet's of the ^^)U('Oirs KoiiiMii Catliolic subjects, sliall be, ami tlio same are liei'el»v extended to the dissentient schools of the Queen's Protestants and Roman Catliohcs in Quebec.
" Wliere in any ])rovince a system of sepai'ate or dissentient schools exists by law at the union, — "
That only ap])lied to the two Canadas, Upper and Lower Canada, and it did not contemplate any other province. It did not contemplate that the resolution I have read should extend to any other province. It did not contemplate that it was to extend to pro- vinces comin<^ afterwards into the union. It sa^'s :
" Where in any pi-ovince a system of sei)arate or dissentient schools exists by law at the union, or is thereafter establishe<l by the Legislature of the Province, an a])peal shall lie to the Governor-General in Council."
That does not give the right to establish them and then say that, once established, they arc never to be disturbed afterwards. Now, the delegates who were acting on behalf of Manitoba were not satisfied with what had taken place in New Brunswick about education, and they wanted to pass a law which would go further than the British North America Act went, and secur-". for themselves greater powers and improve their p<vsi*-i( i\. They passed what is known as the Manitolja Ac \ Here is the clause of that Act applying to th > subjool;
"In and for ; 'h I'n.vinee of Manitoba the said
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HON. X. PLARKE WALLACE.
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leiX'J^l'i^^ii"^- inay exclusivi-lv inai.e laws in I'cl.itioii to ('(lucatioii, subject and according to tlio followinn- provisions :
" Notliing in sncli law siiall pivjudicinlly att'cct any riij,lit or privilege with respect to denominational schools which any class of persons have Ijy law or ])i-actice in the Province at the union."
The}' went further than tlu' British North America Act, because that Act only provided that they shall enj<)\^ what they liave at the time of the union. lUit it was chano'ed because of the New I5runswick case. The miiKn'ity had not the right to have Scjiaratc Scliools in law, and, therefore, that right could not be gi\en back to them. The minority should I'njoy the rio-ht which they had on i^'oini-' into tlic union. Is any right taken away from them which they enjoyed when they came into the union :* Did the Priv}?' Council say so ? The Privy Council «lid not say any- thino- of tlie kind. The Roman Catholic minority in ]\ranitoba had not that right in practice, b< 'cause there were no Separate Scliools there in practice : they had \vliat is known as parocliial schools, which they might estal)lish to-day upon the same basis. And, therefore, we are not going beyond the hound of reason, when we say that they had not the i-ight, umlcr the Act ])rovidiiig for the ineorpoi-ation of Manitoba into C(jnfederation. to appeal against the Manitoba statute which did iway with Separate Schools, IxH'ause they did not eiijdy the riglit to Sepai'ate Schools whe!) *^hey eaiii' into the union.
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'I'liat i'i;4'lit w.is i;-iveii tliciii nftoi' tlioy canic into the nnioii. TIk' union v/jih consuniniated in 1870 and Se])ar}ite Schools wore given in 1<S71, and the Konian ( -atholic uiinoi-ity are enjoyino- to-<hiy al! the ri^-hts tlii'y enjoyed on coming' into the union, and no right which they enjoyed then is taken from them to-day. Tlicrct'oi'e, tliey cannot complain fairly on that line.
We are told that the constitution shows that they shall enjoy certain rights. Now, I would like to ask this House, what, are constitutions ^ They are oidy compacts between governments and Individuals, made to suit the necessities of the time and circumstances, and, as time goes on and conditions change, as people die and ])ass ofi' tlie stage of action and others take theii" places, as the necessities of the tim(> and chang- ing circutMstances and conditions may re(juire, those constitutions ma^' be changed. Constitutions are not .mmutable. At one time one of the provisions of the Jh'itish constitution was, that there should be Church and State. Wlu're is Churcli and State to-day ? Where; W( ;d<l it be to-day^ if that constitution never changed •! The old system of Church and State has been <lon«! away with by the very descendants of the men who were the strong advocates of it years ago, and wh(j regarded it then as one of tlu! safeguards of the IJi'itish constitution. But, as time, as conditions, as the circumstances changed, it was a wise act to do away with it. Thei'e was a time when a Roman Catholic could not hold any ijtllce. But is tliere any- one tf>-<lay wlu), in his wisdom, will say they have no
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Mr. Devlin — ?fas tlie Manitoba Oovcrnincnt the rio:ht to clianue tlie constitution aTanleil to it ^
Mr. Sproule — Yes, so tlie British \orth Aiiicriea Act says. It has the ri^ht to ehanoc its own consti- tution in certain lines. I shall not specify all the lines, but it has that riuht. Hut 1 say that constitu- tions are onlv co)n])acts, which onlv last so Icjii-i- as those compacts suit the situation, the circumstances, the conditions and the age in which they are a})]ili(Ml : and, when they are not In harmony with the age, they must be changed.
Mr. Amvot — Woi 'd the Province of Quebec have the right to change tlie constitution, so I'ar as Separate Scliools are concerned ^
Mr. Sproi'LE — I have sliown the honorable gentle- man that, under the solenni couip.cct they have entered into, they are pledged to Ontario to retain those schools, and I do not look at it as standing in tlie same relation at all. I have given the rf.'asoiis. J^ is because that compact was entered into before Confederation, under which that pi-ovince must have Sep.'irate Schools, but, as regards Manito])a. the com- pact was only that they shouhl enjoy what they had on going into the union ; and on going into the union, Manitoba had not Separate Sclujols.
Tht' seiirniorial tenure was. at one time, a \('i'\' Ijui'iiing (jUestion in tlu' Pr(?\ iiice of (^)iiebec. li was
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a( oiif time '-Mi(.'il)I«' to tlic wants of (lie jx-oplc, Ixit, jis time ;iii(l coiiditions clianwd, it was aholisliLMl hv law. We liad a Clergy Reserve fund tliat «;av(' a cer- tain portion of land i'or the benefit ot* the eleroy, and that was eiiihodied in the coni])act between llp])ei'and Lowci' Canada and ro;iiied part oi' our constitution. Is it standin<;' to-day ;* No, lon^- since the Clergy Reser\'e lands were taken aw^ay I'roni the clergy and used for the purposes of the country, because the changed conditi(jns of tlie day rendered the change neci'ssary. The constitution of the United States ]n.;vided that Congress should not interfere with slavery. Enlightened public opinion in that great republic, howevei", demanded that slavery should be <lone away with, because it was iid unian and not in consonance w^ith the advanced state of civilization, and not in harmony with human feeling and sympa- tliy : and, although the American constitution pro- viiled that it should not be changed, what did the people do ^ 'I'hey first made a compromise, wLiat is known as the Missouri compromise, and declared that slavt'i-y s.hould not go be^^ond certain bounds. ]3ut that was not sutficient : public opinion was too strong to stand slaveiy to any extent, however limited, and they al)olished slavery, though they wei'e obliged to do it bv chanmno- the constitution, thouiih, in order to efiect that chanm> thev had to resort to arms and cause tlic loss of tens of thousands of valuable lives an<l millions of money, a,nd though they had to accomplish that chaiim- b\' one of the ii'reatest civil
Hon. X. claUKK \VAl,l,Ari;.
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wars tlie world lias uNcr st'eii. 'I'lic coiistitiitioii, how- ever, had to ])(' changed, because the reiiuirements of the time demanded it. What are constitutions, ii' they are not made to suit the i'e(|uirements ol the times and of the aire in which we live ? If the con- stitution of Manitoba became t'litii'ely unsuiU'd for the requirements of Manitoba, would it be wise to insist that Manitoba should abide by it, and not efiect a chanf^e ? I say it would be most unwise. Because she saw tit to think otherwise, because she seeks to make this ehanu'e, are we <roin<»: to al)use her ^ No. I would like to ask honorable <>"entlemen : Su})pose that through some inadvertence or malicious design, or from any other cause, you had engrafted upon the constitution of that country a Separate Schocjl system that was entireb' unsuited to the civilization o'" the age, entirely unsuited to the re((uirements oi the rising' e'eneration, who ouaht to be mven a fair educa- tion. It is said that this Separate School system is a good one ; but sup])0se that the Separate School system had been the worst. Merely because that system had been engrafted upon the constitution, must it remain there forever / Would that be common sense or connnon wisdom { Would it justify any class of men in abiding by it? Would not these men rather be justified in so amending the constitution as to bring themselves into harmony with their environ- ments and with the requirements of the country in which they find themselves ? Why is this iiill objec- tionable? It is ol)jectional>le mainly because it
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cstaltlislics two Hysk'iiis ol" ((luoationjil hiw, and two systems i)\' education in a country where they can hardly afford to support one system. We hear it often said : Suppose tlie people of Quebec were to do with tlu^ir Sepai'ate Scliools tliere what the people of Manitoba have done with the Separate Schools there. But the cases are not at all the same, and the com- parison is not a reasonable one. Vou can only com- pare thini^s that are, to some extent, alike. I ^o to the Province of <^>ut!bec, and 1 find the people settled on nari'ow lots that e.xtend a mile and a (piarter in length, but are only, if I i-emend)er well, forty rods in width. A family lives on the front of each lot, and the front of the lots is like a continuous villafje. The people are con^jfreii^ated in lar<^e numbers in a small space. If tht> people want two schools they may be <|uite able to support them, for tliey are numerous enough and wealthy enough to do so. But compare that with the conditions in Manitol)a. Half of the land is kept as a reserve, and not settled at all in some places ; the people can get 1()0 acres each, instead of eighty acres each, and there? are only four families in a mile, instead of from eight to sixteen. Is it to be supposed that the same rules are applicable to the people of Quel)ec that are api)lied to the people of Manitoba ^ Not at all. The Provincial Government, in their wisdom, decide that the conditions were such that it is impossible to impose two school systems upon the people, that the people arc? too weak and camiot maintain them in etiicieney. That is the
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reason wliy tlicy did not wish to pfi-jx'tiialc tin' two systems tiiere. 1 have liere a paiiiphit't tliat deals witli the sul)ject, and it shows that the popuhition tliere is s))arse and scattered. Readin;^ this ]);iiiiphlet, one gets an idea of what it nienns for such a ])()puhi- tion to att(!nipt to maintain two scliool systems. 'Plus pamphlet takes 1!)(S scliool sections and shows that in 1894 the averaii'e attendance in no siiM'le one of them readied ten. Some of them arc as low as five, and the line of fiuures runs nine, five, eiiiht, seven, six, seven, nine, and so on. Every one of tlu'iii is lielow ten. What would be the condition in that countr\" if you were to insist upon the estahlishment of another school system amon<4'st these people wdio ari' strno-o-ljuM' to maintain one system of schools :' Would such a tliiiio- he wise ? A few years a<;'o we had an appeal from Quehec. I remember that a number of Pi'otes- tants from one part of that province came here and asked this House to provide means to transport them to the neighborhood of Calgary so that they might settle together where they could keep up their schools and churches. As an evidence of the ditliculty *>[' maintaining these institutions where populati(jns wei-e sparse, they showed us a ma}) of tliat countiy where the Protestants, one by one, had been bought out by tlie Roman Catholics until they had Vtecoine distributed in very small numbers, yet in much larger numbers than can be found in the settled country districts in Manitoba. And they said : We are unable to kee[) up our societies, we are unable tn maintain
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our clmrcljcs, we are uiiaV)le to suf)|)ort oiir schools, because we are so few in number. When tliey were asked: Wliy do you not attend the schools of the majority, as the Roman Catholics of Ontario attend the Public Schools there:* the answer was: If the' schools in (^)uebec were of the same nature as the Public Schools in Ontario where tlur object is to i;ive a secular e<lucation and not teach the religion of any particulai' Church tirst, we wouhl send our children to them. Hut in those schools they teach principles that are i"efrard(Ml as inimical to the belief of a Protes- tant denomination. Therefore, we cannot send our children to their schools, and we are too weak to keep up oui* own schools. Is not that the condition in Manitoba :* And if the (lovernment came to the conclusion that this condition of things overbur«lened the people, and <lecided that it would be better to <^ive them one system of national schools wdiere relioion w^as not taught, where the tenets of no particular Church were taught, have they not str<jng reason for doing so :* For whatever may have been said, I have never seen it proven that any religious creed or the tenets of any particuhir Cluirch were taught in these schools. They go through the form of reading the Lord's Prayer, and they occasionally rea<l a passage of Scripture ; but they havi; never introduced any catechism or the teaching of the dogmas of any Church. They have made a system of national schools in which the chief desire is to give the rising generation that secular education which is
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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necessary to til tlinii for Itccouiiiif^^ ^ootl citiz«'iis. We ui'e asked to compel tlie pciople of Maiiitol)ii to go l)ack to the dual system, and to cjiriy on tliat dual system undei' two sets oi" laws, one set oi' schools under tlu^ contiol (jI* their own laws, and one under laws passed hy this i'ai-Ii.-iment. What must he the result :" It nnist enoeuder a reelinu' ol* strife and resentment in tlui minds of the majoiity which, if aroused now, may not di«' out within the lifetime of the youne-est mendn'r of this House. We are told that we should pass this bill and settle' the (juestion tinally. If I could hope that this would he a final settlement of this (piestion, I confess that 1 should be inclined to do a <4Teat deal that I would not otherwise do. But I regard it as oidy the connnencement of this tight, if this is forced U])on the peo])le contrary to the will of the majority there.
Now, I object to Separate Schools on principle. But while saying that, I have no feeling against those who regard Separate Schools as the right schools. The principle which I I'egard as right in this countiy is to bring the children up together in one school, where they will learn, through the associations of youth to love ami respect each other, where they will play together, where they will learn to tolerate each other's eccentricities, and learn that human nature is human nature in one, the sanu' as the otlun- : where they will grow up together, having inculcated in their minds the same ])rinciples of eilucation, science and knowled'-f that must be usefid tn them tlirnughout
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HON. N. CI-AUKK WALLACE.
lite. I ivi;'ar<l it as a eorrcct |)rinci}>l(' in tlio iiitciTsts of tlu' Stato tliat in school tho cliildren sliall see nothin<4' ol' tlie diversity of religion, thou<;li tliat may I'omain, and tlic; Clmrcli has the rioht to teach it, l>iit tliat it sltall not keep the cliihh'ei' apart in two liostile camps as is now bein^ done. This is essentially why I oppose this hill, I do not care whether it is a weak bill or a strong- bill. The bill has in it the principle of forcing;- u[)on an unwilling province Separate Schools which were done away with because the people regarded them as unsuitable to the i-ecjuire- nients of the situation or the condition of things in their country. Then again I oppose it because 1 think the State ought to control education. I believe the trend of the age is toward the State controlling echication. Those of us who remember our schoolboy: days will no doubt recollect when we went to what w^ere called pay schools, and we paid so nuich a month for the support of the teacher. There was not much ditfei'ence in the amount of religion taught in those schools and that taught to-day; Init they were pay schools kept up by voluntary subscriptions, and kept up by those who wished to educate their children. The State in its wisdom afterwards thought it necessary to take over the control of education becaus(i there was a large number of poor children in the country whose parents were unable or too careless to give them an education, and this made it possible for a very large percentage of them to grow up in ign(jrance. Relieving tliat education ought to be the
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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l)irtl'i'iL,''lit <»r every citi/eii oT tlie IJrltisli Kiii))ii-e, .-nxl that iiitellio(>ncc is the best ^uaraiitei; for uood citizoMsliip, the State tlioujjflit it ri<.Hit to <^ive them an ('(lucation, and therefore, it took tlie schools oi' the country under its control. Instead of having- pay schools, instead of having parochial sclu^ols, iiistea<l of having church schools, we have what is known as free schools controlled by the State. As soon as the free school system was introduced in U]iper C anada it was regarded as the best system yet devised for the people, and it has been controlled b\'' the State from that time to the present. Now, then, I said that tlie trend of the age is toward the State taking control of I'ducation. Why do I say so ? Because the day of private schools and parochial schools has passed away. 1 am sti'engthened in that opinion by the histoiy of (jther countries as well as our own. T need not cite the ease of Upper Canada, because no one would pretend to stand up to-day and say that we should revert to the old system of allowing churches to keep up their schools and private individuals to keej) up their schools, instead of the State doing it. lUit we have s^'one further than that bv taxiiii"' ourseK es foi- the education of children whose parents are not able to i)ay for it, by giving money out of the public treasury to support poor schools where the people ai'e not able to tax themselves for it. In the Province of Ontario the development of our educational system has been alonii" that line for the last tliiitv or fortv N'ears, until it is a recoy"nize<l fact to-da\' that no mie
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wouM pretend to rlony. J nay Hpiin that tlu; trend ol* the iv^o is toward free scliools, as sliown hy what lias taken ])lace in otlier countries. I take a work that I liold in my liand, and in it I find facts drawn from tlie liistorv of other countries wliicli streniitlien my conviction in tliat re<.^ard. Accor(lin<( to the "Encyclopedia l>ritannica," Vol. 8, page 712, I find that all over Kurojie education is passinj^ from the control of the cler<jjy into the hands of the State. Europe^ is older than our country; it has learned, as every country leains, by the experience of the past, and their experience has taught the wisdom of taking the control of education from under the hands of the clergy, from under the hands of the Church, and transferrinuf it to the control of the State. The same is said to be true even in Mexico, and Central America, and in South America. Then when I come to look at some other countries I find that in Ireland, that benighted country, where it is sometimes said the people are steeped in ignorance, they ha\e a system of national schools. Under the National School system of Ireland, Roman Catholics and Protestants are educated together. They have learned by experience the folly of keeping children apart when they are educated, because separate education, instead of harmonizing opposing sentiments and feelings, tends to accentuate them, tends to make them worse. Therefore, the wisdom of the Adminis- tration (A' Ii'eland has led them to devise what miirht l»e ren'Mi'ded as a national school s\'stem. Australia
HON. N. OI.ARKE WALLACE.
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Iwis jilsij coiiu; lo tlic same conclusion, liccaiisc tlio Connnon Scliool system ol' Aiistnilia is l)}is»'<l on tlie principles of perfect relij^ioiis IVeedom, jmkI tlic non-est.'il>lisliment of any particular form of i-rlinious l)elier. I ueefl not mve tlie historv ol' the United States in regard to this (piestion, as it is douhtless well known to members ol* this Ilousr. Althoufjh attem])t after attempt has been maile by the Roman ('atholics, and in all honesty, in all sincerity, to brin^; the educational affairs of that country undei- the control of their Cliurch, as they luive no doubt a perfect rij^ht to attempt to do, I say that ^reat counti'y, which is regarded as in the forefront of advancement and civilization to-day, has never accepte<l the princi- ple of Separate Scliools, and has never allowed educa- tion to pass from under her control. To-day her schools are free to every cliild of the State, and the children must be educated together in all State-sup- ported schools. Denominational religion is not taught in her schools, Vjut the principles of religion that are common to all, are inculcated in many of them.
I know something about the schools in the United States, because I passed some time in her educational institutions ; and although the State teaches some of the doctrines of religion that are connnon to all creeds, the same as are taught in man\' parts of this country, I heard no objection fi'om any Roman Catholic. And although, as 1 say, api)lieatioii has been made from time to time for Scpai'ate Schools, the State has never abandoned hei- control of
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HON. \. CLARKE WATJ-ACE.
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<'<lu(*;iti()ii. No (lonl)t some lionoral)l(' ^ciitlt'iiicii will r<'iii('iiil)('r that two or three years a^o tlie <|ii('sti«)ii was asked of oiu^ of the hi^h difynitaries of tljo Roman (^itholic Church of the United States, Mons. Satolli, Would the Church in the United States allow the children of Roman Catholics to be educated in what were commonly called godless schools:' and the answer was that, under the circumstances they could <l(t so — under the circumstances they were at liberty to send their children to the Public Schools. The Roman Catholics do not enjoy the privilege of Separate Schools there, as they do here. Now, then, in Mexico also, free Public Schools have been estab- IIsIhmI, and whoever sends a child to the parochial school is tined. Experience has proven the wisdom of preventing parochial schools from controlling tlie education of the country, and the State has made it a punishable offence for anyone to send a child to a parochial scIkjoI. On this (|Uestion I tind some facts (juoted by ])r. Sidney. In the Re])ublic of Central America children between the aujes of eio-ht antl fourteen years are recpiired to attend Public Schools: education is free, compulsory, and under State control, 'i'hen I come to Scnith America, to the republics of that continent, with their fifty millions of population, and wdiat system do we find there ? Until twenty years ago the education of the children was cari-ied on in parochial schools and under the control of tlie clergy ; but experience has showni the unwisdom of that system of education, and they l^ave
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clian^^ed it. TIk ir schools now ai'e puMic, imdcr ' lio State control, and compulsory. The eclucation (►!' that j^reat couiitry is to-day closely modelled Ml'tcr the system prevailing- in the State ol' Michigan. In tliat great country ol' fifty millions ol' people, whoever sends a child to a parochial school is tinrd, and the parochial schools have hcen closed. Free schools have been established in Uruguay and Venezuela, under a system much the same as that prevailing in other republics I have mentionecl. Then we come to New Brunswick, and we find th.-it they have ])racti- cally State schools. They have State .schools in the Province of Nova Scotia. They have State schools in Prince Edwaro Island. Then, I say, I am justified in the conclusion that the trend of the age is toward the State controlling the education of the countr3^ Why, I ask, should Manitoba V)e compelled to go back to what is really an oUsolete, an unsatisfactory, an<l an unsuitable conditi(m of things for the neefls of that province ? For that reason, again, I am opposetl to thi.s bill. Now, .>^ir, we are told we have a right to legislate because there is a grievance. What law has ever been passed restricting a man's rights that docss not leave a grievance behind it :* Is there any law that restricts us in any walk of life that does not give rise to some grievance, if we are to consult our own feelings when rights have been taken away from us ? But if, in the interest of the State, in the interest of humanity, it is necessary even to create a <rrievance
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by taking away certain rights, the State is justified
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ill (jikiii«;' nway tliosc rij^lits in tlie interest ol' tlie whole. And thoufrh there may be a <;rievance behind it, it is no justiHeati(jn for ^oing back to the old condition ol' things simply because it is a grievance. Was there not a i^rievance in New Brunswick when tlie Provincial Government took control ol' the schools and change<l the system i Tlie Minister ol' Marine nnd Fisheries fought that (|uestion eloquently in this House, declai'ing there was a grievance and a very Kcrious gi'ievance. But when Sir John Macdonald was appealed to, he refused to give back what they regarded as their rights, liecause, h<» said, it was the right of a province to control that matter, and he informed them it was their duty to go to the highest trilumal, the people, and fight out the (piestion there. lie tol<l them to go first to the Provincial Legislature, an<l then to go to the })eople, because the pi^ople had t'iie power to change the representation in the Legisla- ture. He told the representatives of the minority to go before the people and convince tliem that their demand was a right and just (me, and, lie said, there was sullicient justice in bumanity to grant what is right.
Mr. CosTKiAX — Perhaps the lionorable gentleman will permit me an explanation, as be referred to me by name. II<j has stated that the late Sir John Macdonald, when appealed to by the minority of New Brunswick, told them that he could give them no relief, but to go to the Legislature. T think the honorable gentleman will find that they were sent,
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»t«»t l<» tilt' Lt'i^Msluturc, but to t.lir courts, iiinl tlir
.lu<liciul Connnittec of tlie !*ri\ y Council.
Ml". Sl'lloL'LF-: — I Wild tlic fliscussion n lew (|.i\s M'-o Tlic contention is that the courts ol" justice otlcr no I'cdi't'ss Mild, tlicret'orc, the people li.ive to conic litTr I'oi- redress, ,'ind that the Piritish North Ann lic.i Act contemplate<l that we should come here for i-cdress. l)Ut the understanding, as expi'cssrd hy Sir .lohn Macdonald, was that you must ljo hack to your own le;rislature, and it' you do not obtain relit'l' then', then app<'al to the electors, because they can ])Ut out the nuMubers of the Le^-islature ; but, in Sii- .b>lm Macdonald's o[)iiiion, wo had no I'ii^lit to inttrreic \ read the debate in this way, and lam in the judi;inent of those who have read it as well as myself.
Will Manitoba settle this (piestioii it' left alone '. \ believe, if Manitoba were left alom- she woul<l ulti- mately settle it; perhaps the minority would not ^et all they expect or claim, but the Piovince would settle it as satisfactorily as it was settled in New IJrunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and the other provinces. I have sufficient i'<'spect for the jud^'inent and fairness of the people of that ;^n"eat country, many of whom went there from Ontai-io and Quebec, to believe that they do lujt want to act unfairly to any of the people there, and if left, alone they would settle the f|uestion in a way that would be satisfactory to the minority after a tinu'. 'I'he minority are taking advanta;L?e of the law which exists there to-day, and I find tliey are brini;inn the
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HON. N. (;hA|{KK WALLACE.
Hclinols iindci' till" control of the law in incnasiiii: ninnhcrs rvny year. I have, thcrerore, the ri^dit to assume that not very ;4i't'at <lissatisracti()n exists tluTc.
W'lioaiv ciaiuoriii^" lor tiuH law:* Arc tlic jH'opIc of M.initol)}! cianiorin*^ I'or it :' It is true that a largely si^iMMl jH'tilion has Ix'cn sent hi-ro asking" I'oi' the chan^^c, ami I cannot shut my oycs to that fact; hut it was not up, 1 am crcdihly inrormod, hy the hie- rarchy, and was si<^ncd hy |)c()]>lc who were asked to si^n it, an<l they sent down the ])etition. Tins was all I'iiiht. I)Ut the <rreater clamor comes from tlie Trovinceof (Quebec, many of whose ])eo])le know little of the situation, wliether Separate Scliools joined with national schools can \)0 worked or not. They are forcino- the issue, and they are the party who are forcinji- the tii»ht on the .situation to-(hiv. I do not believe, if they knew the situation as well as the pe()])le there do, if they knew the ditiiculties that Manitoba has to contend with, they wouhl ti*j^ht stronnly and insist so vigorously in forcin<]^ on an unwilling- peo])le a measure that is not desired there, and compel them to restore the school system which was abolished because it did not suit them.
There are some features o^ this contest that attract my attention at the present tinu', and which nnist attract public attention. One is the voice of the l)isho]is and cleriiy on the (juestion. We all under- stand that it is a serious ottence to interfere with the riirlit of a member of Parliament in the dischariie of
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his l«*j,nsl;itivt' duties kc to iiit iiiii<l;ilr liiiii Tliu', ..!' us uiio loioNV ;iii\ tinii;; Mlmut I he itolliail ('.lllinllf n'li«;i()n, HIT uw.irr that it is a. \t\y snioiis liiiii^ (,■ tako away IVom any iin'iiil»rr dl" that ('hnich the rii^hts <>l' the (Miurch, Id t«'ll a man \\h«i hilir\rs ihat, thl'oui^'h that ('hiiirh alotw li<> can HikI saKalinn. Mi.il the ccch'siastica! autlioriiics will lakr away \'\><\\\ liim tlu' I'i^hts ol" the C'hurch. I hrlirsr it til Im a \iiy Horious tluvat when you tfll aii\' man •iischaiuiii'' his • hitii's as ft nit'iiibcr ol" INuliaiiicnt, or is ahoiil i(. <j;n hack to till' electors Tor eiidoi-salioii <n- nl hciw Im' llial il' you do so and so the ( 'hureli will deeho'- yoii !»» be no loiiii'er a Ilomaii ('atholic. 1 ha\e Imic a stale- uient which was put out a lew <lays a;;f», and it m • nis to me a very sei'ious niattei* with i-espict to lloman Catholics in this House. I am soiiy to neiilion it, and I do not do it ioi* th(^ jiurpose of <iv;it in;j any I'eelintr, because I know it ma\' make sDUie lion membei's wlio are Roman (atholics led thai I am doinn" ^vhat I should not, as a Protestant do^ in spi .d-;- in<^ of it. But I only sjjeak (jI* it because ol' tie- sentiments enunciate«l by the leaflei-of t In- 0|i|.<) it ion tlie other ni-iht. 'I'hat hon. nenlleinan said: Whili- I love mv Church an<l re\e|-r niv t'lnii-cli. and respect my Chui'cli, yet in the (|i>cliai-;^e n\' my duty as a Liberal in this li(juse, tVjJlowin;^- the jaincipj. ■-(,!■ Liljeralism as enunciated, know ji and caiii" I out \,y the f'Teat KeioJ'm<.'rs ol" the J>)iti^li lvii|)it< I refuse to be controlled in the dischai'^e i,\' my dnt,y even bv mv ( 'hurch. because I re<rard it as tl)<' lit--t
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<liil,y of ;i iiKiiiiH'r ol' l*;ii-li;i,nM'iit lo <1<) liis <liity In 111*' Slutc, ;ui<l wliih; I ;i,)n niiwillin;^ to vj>i\H', into coiillir't witli my (Jliiircli, I l»fli(;vc I luiovv tin; situutioii })(!t<,<'r lli;in tlicydo: I «lo not r(!;;ar<l it ;i.s ofl'cn.si\i! I)(!c;i,iisc, tli<-y iiii}i<^iii»' tlicy iU'c ri;;lit ir) <loiri;^' ho: ;umI I think tlii'V ;ii'<' ratlirr objects Tor syiii|»;i,l liy tliaii otliciAvisf. Kadifr liaconilx;, ji, very r(!Sp(j(;t;i.l)l(! missionai'y I <lo n(jt Maine him I'oi" his ntti'i'.'inci-, occ.'iiisf, he thoniiht h<! \v;i„s doiriir I'i^'lit, and <loin'''
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hat he (;(jn(tci\ <'(! to hi; his fluty (h'cjai-cd that no mnii who o|j|)cs<'(| this llcmcdial l>ill would Ix; ic";i.r(l('(| ;i,s a (JatJiolic. 11;- said :
" |i', wlii(;h m;iy (*od not ;^n";irit, you do not hdifvi' it, to he your duty t>o jicct'dc to our just demands jind th;it the ( lovcnnncnl, whic.li is anxious l,o <^i\(' us tJic proinisiil |;iw, 1m" h'f;ati;n and overthrown while keep- in;;- lirm to the end oi' th<; sti'U^'^le, I inform you, with r-e;^-r(;t,, th;it the I'jpiseopacy, like one man, united <,o the e|fr;4y, will r'ise t;0 sup[)ort t,hose who m;i,y h;i,\<; r.ijlen to defend us."
Arehhishop LanL^evin of Si-, Boniface lins stated his
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"It has hei'ii siiid, fals(dy, that the (!atliolie liie- r;irehy in this Dominion of ours is 1,o S(;ttle the school (piestion. .No, th(; ('athoiic hicirar. Iiy — you know it, and I e.-in say it j>lainly — th(i ( "atholic liier;i,rchy le;nl,s the (.'.it holies in tJieir re,liei(,us convi(;tion, Jind all those who do not follow the hierarcliy an; not
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ion(;s.
And he h;is instructed them that this was cle;irly their diil-y, hecnuse the (Miurch instructed I hem in
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tljoir line, of consciciicf, hy tcllin;^'' llicin liiat it. wuh their <liity to .su|){)ort, tlio hill vvhifh nivt,s hack these j-i^hts tf tliL' ( 'hureh.
" W^hen tlie hi(inirehy has spoken th<T(' is no use for any ('atholie to say to the contrary, tor if he docs Ik; is no h>n(^n!r a ( "athohe. Such a man may carry the tith;, })nt I (h^^lare this Jis a hisliop ; I say to-ni;(ht, and I say it with }>hiin authority, a (/atholie who docs not follow the hierarchy on the school (|Ucstion is no mor(; a (';i.t}iolic, and who will he the one to (entitle such a oru; to tin- iwuiie of (Catholic:' Where is the soci(!ty or tiovcrnmcnt, who will "ive him the ri^^httocall himself a (Catholic when I in my aul liority as a (/atholie hishop, de(;lare tlint su(;li ;i m.'in has no ri^^lit to the name;."
Then, I say, the hisliop is jjuttin;^' them outside the pale of the (Jhurch, and that is a very serious matter for (yatholi(!S. ' Sir, I re;4ard that, .*i,s ;i most uidorti mate thin;^, l»(!caus(; it is interfei'inn- with what, most peopit; in this (;ount,ry look upon as the liohi, of every mem- l)ei* of Parliament to do, namely, to follow the dict.ates of his own jud^rment in matt,ers where the St,ate must (control, and where; the St,a,t,<! nnist he ahove the (Jhurch, and ahfjve »-cli^ion, and where mehd»eis heliev*! that they know the condition of ihin^^s het.tcr than the men who ai'c at-tempt.in;^' to •/we a<l\ice, 1 do not hlanw^ the clcr^^y of the Koman ('atholie Church for doin;^" so. I do not, hiame them for hrini;- ine- every inllucnce tlay can to ! e.ir iijion the (yhur(rh to do so, hut I think it is lud'oi't unale that that intlu- ence sh(j(d"l he hroimht to heai'. /\ man who has the
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HON. N. CLARKE WALLACK.
couiM^o <)!' liis convictions, ;in<l who lias tlic inniiliood and the inti^^i'ity to say in tlic face of all that, I rc^anl my duty to the State as so and so, and I shall cany it out, notwithstanding the fact that I may he buried under the anathema of the Church, and not- withstanding that the whole Church shall be arrayed against me, and support the party opposed to me ; I say that the man who has the moral courage to say that will be endorsed by the people of this country. They will regard him with respc^ct and honor, and tli<;y will look upon him as a greater statesman than they did before. This is one of the features of this contest which makes me to-day so very strongly against this bill. We are told that if we do not legis- late in this case, Quebc^c may take away the I'ights from the Protestants of that province. I was glad to hear th(^ hon. nuMubei- for '^Phree Kivers (Sir Fbjctor Ijangevin) speak in the gent^rous and maidy tone he di<l this aftei-noon, when \u' said that whether the minoi'ity in Manitoba got their i'ights or not, Quelx^c would nevei- <lescend to any princi[)le so low. I always had a high o[)ini()n of tln^ Krench-( /anadian j)eople. I always regarded them as chivalrous, as honorable, and as <lispos(!d to do right to the minority down there. But above and beyond all that, I say that whether W(^ legislat(^ or do not legislate, the rights of the minority an^ not in <langer in that ])ro- vince. Th(U-e wasasoleiiin com])act entei'ed into with the l^rovince of Quebec in this mattei-, an<l I believe that no [terson would dare to break up the oi'iginal
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contract which was ontiirt'd into hctwccii the 'wo Canadas bolVm; Confederation, and ciuboditMl in thi; Confederation Act of ISG7. And slioidd tlie peo))le down in that country wisli to leo-islate upon that (|uestion, and if tliey felt as strono-ly on it as do the poopk^ of .Manitolja, would the p»;oi)le of Manitoba Ik; disposed to intei ' 'n^ witli tlieir ri<^lits '. [ tliiid< tliey would not. And if the peoi)lo of (^)u( hec came to this House, would they Ije inclined to reL;-ai-(| with ((uietness and courtesy any efibi-t that w;is made to interfere with their riohts ? I thiid< they would not. They would be the very stron<;-est to create an agita- tion that would be large in its proportions and dano-eroUH in its re^'ults if they were not allowed to control their ri<;hts as they were allowed in the Jesuits' Estates case. They would tell us that any le^nslation against them was an interference with the riohts belon<,dng to their province, and they would not brook any interference. Now, what shoidd the (lovernment do with this (jUestion at the ))resei!t time '. J say they should leave it to the peo))Ie of the Province of Manitoba to deal with as in their judg- ment they think best. That was what they slionld have done in the first place. While the Judicial Connnittee of the Privy Council said to the minority, Vou have the rio-ht to appeal, what <lid that mean '. Some say that the (Jovernment ai'e now only caiTV- ino- out the judo-ment of the Pi'ivy Council. 1 do not so undei-stand it. Althou<;-h that was \ery lieively contended a b-w months a;^'o, no member of llie Cabi-
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net to-day will say that the Government is ()])li<;o(l to take this course because of the judgment of the Privy Council. That judgment of the Privy Council was an opinion in the nature of advice to the Gover- nor-in-Council here. It told then that the minority had the right to appeal to them for a hearing of their case. That was all. They heard that case, and according to their judgment and wisdom they could say either " yes " or " no,"' you have a grievance and we will change that law, or, we will not changes it. It was e([ually their right to say : We will not inter- fere with Manitoba, or, w^e will interfere. It was the right of this Government to say : If the circumstances are such that we ought to interfere, then we can interfere with it ; or, if the condition of things are such in Manitoba tliat they cannot successfully carry on two educational systems, we shall not interfere with it, But, sir, this Government were e(|ually at liberty to say either one or the other. There is no judgment of the Privy Council telling this (Govern- ment to interfere or not to interfere.
Now, we are told that if this bill is passed the tight will be over. Well, sir, if I believed that I would be inclined to go a long way. I would be disposed to do many things I would not otherwise wish to do, if I thought the passing of this bill would be a finality in this matter. But, sir, can I shut my e^'cs to the agi- tation going on in the countiy to-day ? Can I shut my eyes to the unanimity of sentiment in Manitoba^ where three elections have been run on that <juestion.
HON. N. cr-AllKK \V.\l,r,A('K.
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and where tliere lias Iteeii a iiiajurity in t'aAorof tlie ri(j;lit.s oi' tlie Province every time :* C an I sluit my eyes to tlie fact, as we are told, that at least So per cent, of the people of Manitoha are in favor of allowino- that province to work out her own destinies according- to the law she has plaeeil on the statute book ^ Can I shut mv e\-es t<> the fact that all over the country there is no defence of the action of the Government hy the j)ress of the country who ^'autje and educate ]iulilic senti- ment { Can I shut my eyes to the fact that therti has been scarcely a gathering; all over tliis Dominion which says to this Government : Go on and do what you are <loing to-day. No, sir, it is the very reverse. I therefore say that I have no right to assume that the passage of this bill would be tlie end of the eon- test. I do not believe that the heart-bnrnin<fs and the strife that is I'aised to-day, would all die out in a few months if we force Manitoba to do as she is not inclined to do. I believe that the siintimeiit of the country does not justify any interference witli the Province of Manitoba in this matter. I belie\(! that the public sentiment of the country is, that there shall be no interference.
Now, then, what will be the result to the ])resent (iovernment if they persist in i)ressing this bill. It must, in my judgment, inevitably result either in their defeat in tliis House, or in their defeat in the country. It may be said that the country has not spoken. We have often asked them ol' late to appeal
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to the country, and wo have said tliat altliouoh wo believe public sentiment is against you, yet il' you appeal to the country, and if the voice of the country says pass that law, you will be justified in doinu- it. l^ut they have not appealed to the country, nor o-iven the electorate an opportunity to speak. If they are defeated in this House they must appeal to the country, and if then the judgment of tlie electorate is that the Government shall go on with the measure, then they will be justified. The Government will be fortified with public opinion behind them, and they will be fortified with the support of many friends in this House who are opposing them to-day. Sir, if I know anything about the public sentiment of the countr}^ I say it is all adverse to the policy of the Government in this matter. Mr. Speaker, I can only express regret, as I did at the beginning of this debate, that I am obliged to place myself in opposition to the (jtovernment of the day. However, I do not believe that I am in opposition to the sentiment of the Conservative party of this country when I op])ose the Government. I believe that the Government is against public opinion, and that I am with public opinion in doing as I am doing now. I believe I am in harmony with the sentiments of the people of Ontario to-day, when I am standing as I am against the Government on this question. I believe that I am also in harmony with the sentiments of the people of Manitoba when I stand up here to oppose the (Gov- ernment un this occasion, I believe, too. that I am
HON. N. CLARKE WALLACE.
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in harinoiiy witli the people of the North- West Ter- ritories hecause tlie same ditticultv i.s looiniiii: ui) there, and that i.s another reason wliieli leads me u> tliink tliat this Hiilit will not be ended .soon. li' we are .successful in forcino- Manitoba to-day, (he next thing will he to force us to repeal the law whieh gav^e national schools to the North-West Ten-itoi-ies The Catholics re(fard themselves as havine; a "j-rit^v- ance there the same as in Manitoba. Archbishop Langevin said so at Edmonton, I believe. He .said : We are not reconciled to the laws which have i)een put on the Statute Book of the North- West Terri- tories: the national schools there do not satisfy us any more than the national .schools in Manitoba. Therefore, I say that if the parties who are forcing on this remedial legislation .succeed in getting it, the tight will commence in the North- West Territories as soon as the bill is passed. The School Bill pas.sed in the North- W^est A.s.send3ly has been held in abeyance, and has not yet received the assent of the Lieutenant- Governor. Why is it held in abeyance :■ Because the clergy do not approve of it. Now, I would ven- ture to ask this Government, as the authority eithei* to veto that law or to allow it to go into o))ei-ation, what they intend to do with it ^ ]Jo they inti'ud to give the people of the North-W^est Teri-itoi'ies the right to control education or do they intend to \ eto that law ? And if thty veto it, will they start the fight there which they .started on behalf of the min- ority in Manitoba ^ Will they continue that tight
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also for five ycN'irs, until they Kcciire in the Nortli- West TerritorieH what tliey vvisli to secure in Mani- toba to-day:' I say that tlii.s justifies us in believin<j^ that tlie ti<i;;lit will not be ended by tliis bill ; l)ut that the passao'c of this bill would be only the coninience- ment of the tinht. The tight nuist go on, though this l^arlianient nuist go to the country, and though dozens of niend)ers who support the bill to-day may be left at home by an exasperated electorate. As John Sandfield Macdonald said at the time of the birth of Confederation, if you take from the majority the right to control education, you do not settle the cjuestion for ever. It will loom up again. Like l^an- (pio's ghost, it will not down : it will come to the front, and the tight will continue.
Therefore, in the interest of humanity, in the interest of the people of Manitoba, who think they ought to enjoy freedom, as every westerner thinks they ought, I ask you not to exasperate them too far. If you do, the conse<|uences may be something we do not wish to contemphite to-day. We all hope that the conse(|uences may not be serious; but we all know what the feeling of the people of Manitoba was when we were obliged to liark back and repeal the monopoly clause in the Canadian Pacific Railway Act; and if we force this measure upon them, the results may be serious, not only to that country, but to Confederation, beca ise it tends to destroy provincial autonomy. Then I say, in the interests of all the provinces of this gj-^at Dominion, in the interests of
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the p('(>[)lr ol" tliat country, wlio live uiulcr a comli- tion ()l' tliiiioH entirely ditterent from tlie condition of things here or in tlie Province of Qiie])ec, let tlieni enjoy tin ' ri_i,d its tliey are entitled to: let them adopt laws suited to their conditions and envii-onnicnts, and carry out those laws accordini;: to tlu'li- will, so lono- as they are doin^]^ no suhstantial injustice to any portion of tlu^ peopie. For these reasons I ;uii nhout to vote against this bill. I am sometimes told that, in voting against the Government on this bill, T am voting for the Opposition. Well, it is fortunate that we can sometimes meet, even if we do not always meet. If I tldnk the Opposition are riglit, I am generous enougli and <jlad enouu'h to record my vote with tlieirs. I want to see the bill killed : the Opposition are moving with the same end in vi(!\v, therei'ore we vote toij^ether. I do not rei»:ard it as an unmixed evil that I am voting with them. I do reirard it as an unmixed evil that I am votinu' against the Government, which I have loyally supporteil thesr seventeen years, because I tliiidv they are wrong on this (juestion, and it is my duty to vote as I think right. Feeling, as I do, that the best thing we can do in the interest of the country is to kill this bill, I intend to vote for the motion made by the leader of the Op})osition : and I was glad that hr. mtulc that motion, because it gives us an opportunity to vote straight against this bill, and to kill it, if possible. On other lines I am with the Government. Tliey may see fit to read me out of the party for taking the
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iiidcpondoiit step I do. If they do so, that is tlicir I'iglit, and tlioy can act according to tlieir own sweet will. Hnt, so lonf^ as I occupy a seat in this Hou.se, I sliall re^anl it as ni}- rij^lit to vote according to the dictates of niy conscience, and with sucli under- standin^r as I have, on every measure that conies before tliis House. Therefore, regarding tliis l)ill as a most obnoxious one, not only as doing away with a system of education that is the very best for the rising generation, but .as taking away from the Province of Manitoba the right of control in educa- tional matters, which .it ought to enjoy, I shall have much pleasure in voting for the six months' hoist.
And so from such men as these, .some of them Con- .servatives in politics, some of them Liberals, was the scheme to coerce Manitoba aborted. It never drew the breath of life, but its birth-pangs were sufficiently acute to Ijring upon its parents confusion and over throw. I have great faith in this grand Dominion, anil that faith has been greatly strengthened by the recent outspoken voice of the people, who arose in their might and sv/ept from power men who dared to form an alliance with the hierarchy for political gain. Catholic and Protestant, Quebec and Ontario, joined hands to say we will not have these men to reign over us. The fight may be kept up. A tyrannical
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mandamus may wipe out a few more papers in Quebec, an attempt may be much; to tlirottle free discussion, but the attitude of hostility now assumed by a stratrtrlinoj few must result in final defeat. And this country that has in it all the elements of future greatness will go forth upon its mission.
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CANADA: THE GREATER BRITAIN.
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CANADA: Till': GRHATIIR BRITAIN.
A 4,KCTURK BY HEV. r. K. I'KKKV.
Canada has been greatly und(3rvaluf'd \>y friends and foes. Many think of it as a country buried in snow. A little while ago when the President of the United States sent his bellicose niessage to the House of Representatives, the Americans boasted that they could take Canada any morning bcfoie breakfast. Their brag reminds one of the boy wlio was sent to set a hen. Being a long time gone his motli'M asked what detained him. He said that he had placed thirty- six eggs under the hen as he wished to give her a chance to spread herself. Was the President actuated by a simihir desire for the Eagles extension ! We are often reminded of the numbers that leave us for the United States. But we have lived to see many return, tired of grassho])])ers, cyclones, idixzards and (|ivorce courts,
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When we consider our great Dominion with its majestic mountains, fertile prairies, grand lakes, magnificent rivers and inexhaustihle mines, resources and possibilities, we have no hesitation in calling this the Greater Britain that is to be. Canada is forty times larger than Great Britain. You might roll England through Canada and not make a dent. Drop Ireland into on(j of our great lakes, and forever end " Home Rule." Lose Scotland in one of our forests and never know it was there unless the odor of its whiskey sliould betray its presence. Canada is lumnded on the north by the Artie Ocean, east by the Atlantic, south by the United States, west by the Pacific. In 1790, the United States had in round numbers a [)opulation of 4,000,000. Canada at the same time 200,000. In 1(S91 Canada had reached 5,000,000 and the United States 61,000,000. In 1790, for every one person in Canada there were twenty in the United States : now for every one in Canada there are but twelve in tlie United States. At the World's Fail' in Chicago, out of 150 awards given in daily exhibits, Canada carried off 126. In fruit Canada was ecjually fortunate and won 96 awards out of 105 against the world. Canadji exhibited a clK'ese .'it till- same f.'iir, of such colossal proportions t-hat broke down the platforn) built for it by their most
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skilled artisaiLs. Canada is one of the lar<^a'st conntries in the world, containing' ;iii area ot* 8,500,000 sf|nare miles, and is about one-thirtecnith of the land on the surface of the olol»<'. Laro-or than Australia, nearly as large as the whole of Europe, and exceeds the United States in si/e hy 127,000 squan- miles, and has as nmch fertile territory. It stretches 3,500 miles in one direction and 1,400 in the other. One of the lakes of Canada (Lake Superior) covers aii area of 32,000 scjuare miles, beino' 400 miles long, almost e([ual to the size of Ireland, and is the largest body of fresh water on the globe. This hike, with Huron, Erie, Ontario (unsalted seas), with the noble River St. Lawrence, forms unbroken connnunication for 2,140 miles. Canada has also a great coast line both on the Atlantic and Pacific. This is pierced by inlets, bays, and some of the finest harbors on the irlobe. Her fisheries are among the richest in the world, and double the annual value of the United States fisheries, and nearly e((ual to the rest of the British Em])ire, and is a source of great wealth and is well worth protecting. Our forests are very valuable, containing sixty-nine varieties of wood. The exports of the products of the forest was in one yeai* S21, 000,000. An Englishman once remarked to me, " You have no 9<dr] m>r>eM ill CanaiJa. *<> compare witli tli(>s<^ of
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Eiif^land." I had the pleasure of intWining him that whilst the coal area in his native land was 11,900 square miles, ours occupied 100,000. Our mines are only in their infancy, but English and American capitalists are just now awakening to the fact that the most extensive gold mines, and possibly the most productive in the world, are situated in Ontario at Rat Portage and on Lake of the Woods, and Rainy Lake, and Rossland, B.C., and it has long been known that the finest gold in the world is found in Nova Scotia. We also have some silver in the Lake Superior region. Lead and copper 1 The nickel mines at Sudbury are unrivalled in the world. And when the time comes, as is anticipated, to coat the warships with this metal, Canada can supply the world.
We have struck sufficient oil in Canada to throw light upon the subject. And make the whole ma- chinery run smoothly. We are also a manufacturing people, and from tlie toothpick to the splendid har- vester we are making so much that tens of thousands are finding employment in our factories. In agricul- ture we are not excelled by any portion of the world. In one year in Ontario 86,000,000 pounds of cheese was manufactured. And Manitoba's No. 1 hard wheat is without a peer. In Ontario alone there is
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invested in agricultural iniplemonts i? 1,000.000,000. In 1844, there were fourteen miles of railway. At Confederation 2,400 ; now the Dominion boasts of over 12,000 miles valued at J?625,000,000. In 18(i8 we possessed 8,500 miles of telegraph, now 50,000 — 15,000 miles of telephone wires with 7,292 post-offices. We have 650 regular publications, newspapers and magazines, 70 of which are daily papers, so that the world to-day in miniature is laid upon our breakfast table through the agency of the printing press. Our school system is the best in tlie world, as is proved in the intelligence of our people. The late Rev. Dr. Ryerson travelled through England, Germany and the United States and studied the schools of these countries as he saw them in operation. He then amal- gamated their excellent qualities, and gave us the best system in existence. In 1868, the total trade was $131,000,000 ; in 1883, it had grown to S230,000,- 000, an increase of 8100,000,000 or an average of nearly $7,000,000 a year. Of oui* public works we need not be ashamed. The Canadian Pacific Railway, stretching f/om ocean to ocean, binds in one the different provinces of this great Confederation, and is the longest railway in the world ; it is tlie most stupendous enterprise ever undertaken ;nid success- fully accomplished by any country of the population
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of the Dominion. The Intercolonial connecting Quebec with the Maritime Provinces is (S90 miles in length and cost over .$40,000,000. The (Jrand Trunk Rail- way was until the completion of the Canadian Pacific Railway, the longest railway in the world under one management, its total length being 8,300 milec.
Great things are confidently looked for in the way of Asiatic and Australian trade by the Canadian Pacific Railway, and the splendid steamers that con- nect at Vancouver. The route is becoming already the great highway to the East. The British Govern- ment, with its usual foresight, is making use of this route for the transhipment of its soldiers to its far- away possessions, and has granted the Canadian Pacific Railway a material subsidy of £45,000 sterling annually. Canada has constructed 73 miles of canals at a cost of $30,000,000. The noble bridge that spans the St. Lawrence at Montreal is one of the largest railway bridges in the world, costing So, 000,000, con- taining 3,000 feet of masonry and 10,000 tons of iron, is two miles long and is a triumph of engineering skill and one of the wonders of the world, and is fittingly named after our gracious queen, " Victoria Bridge." The magnificent pile of buildings at Ottawa is a tribute to the good taste and natural aspirations of our Canadian people. If our young people wish to
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leave Ontario, they need not {jjo to any foreign country : we have plenty of room irj our own Do- nninion. The district of Allierta that takes in the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains, has an area of over 100,000 scpiare miles oF l»eautiful land, and is especially fitted for })asturage. It is twice as lart^jeas Manitolia, four times as laroe as New Brunswick, five times as lar<j;e as Nova Scotia, and forty times as large as Prince Kdward Island, and can excel that province in its staple, a fai'mer having assured me that he has raised 750 hushels of potatoes to the acre. Some of the towns of this Dominion have grown with great rapidity and are yet I'etaining their prosperity. A few years ago on the Petitcodiac River in New Bruns- wick was a small villai>e called the " Bend," now the city of Moncton. It has now a population of 10,000, is lighted with electricity, has its street cars propelled by the same subtle fluid; V)esides its railway shops, emplo^'ing seven hundred men, it has a sugar refinery, cotton mills, two daily papers, seven fine churches, and erected a school-house that cost S30,000, and a Y.M.C.A. building to cost 825,000. And so we might speak of Winnipeg whose growth is still more remark- able, and of Vancouver, and many others in the west. Previous to Confederation tlu'iv werr differences in currency and in the tariti' among the several provinces/
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so that in pasfsin^ rroni one to another petty annoy- ances were enc(juntered. T. D'Arcy Magec voiced a trutli when in 1(S65, he said, " We want time to grow, we want more people, more families to develop our resources. We want more extensive trade and commerce, more land tilled. We of the British North American provinces want to be joined ; that if danger comes we can support each other in the day of trial. We come to your Majesty who has given us liberty, to give us union, that we may preserve and perpetuate our freedom." That boon was granted. Canada at that time had a population of 3,000,000 ; it has in- creased to more than 5,000,000. The revenue has risen from $13,000,000 in 1868 to S38,000,000. The imports and* exports have been increased from S131,- 027,532 in 18G8 to $218,607,390 or a total increase of $87,000,000.
The number of letters forwarded has increased from 18,000,000 to 92,000,000, and the total newspapers periodicals, books and parcels have increased from 18,884,000 to 87,830,000. The development of Mani- toba and the North-West, the creation of Winnipeg, Vancouver, Victoria, Calgary, Portage la Prairie, and Neepawa, and other commercial centres prove our ability to make a country. So that the Dominion of Canada, in the splendor of her cities, in the
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magnitude of her public works, in tin; conipletoness of her educational institutions, in the intclli^^ence of her people and indeed in all that <roes to make up the greatness of the nation,' (Canada to-day occupies a position of proud pre-emincnice. Its judicial system, its military organization, its superior ocean carrying trade, its excellent civil service, its nHuiicij)aI ' Home Rule,' its efficient postal -service, its admirable election laws, its beneficiary system of public charities, all combine to make Canada second to no country in the civilized world.
And so long as this country continues pre-eminent in virtue, intelligence, and the reward of that which is good — continues to produce such statesmen as the one that these pages desire to honor, we will go forward to abiding prosperity.
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Tht Author Is opin for ongagiments to Locture on tho following subjocts :
"Canada : thk (jIkkatkk liKiTAis," " Okanckism,"
"The Si-anism Ak.mai>a,'" " Sicckss is Litk,"
"TiiK SiKcB OK Dkrhy," -'Thk (iiNi-owuKR Plot,
iiiid "TiiK Hatti.k ok tmk Hoynk. ■ Fur tLTiiw and other information acidresH—
REV. CHA5. E. PERRY,
MIMICO, ONT.
TESTIMONIALS.
Ak'I'llRRHON, C'LAKK, CAMI'BKLL cSt .JaRV18,
Barristkhh, Solicitors, &c.,
okkicks: 27 Wrllinoton St. Kast,
ToKoNTo, Ffl). loth, 1897. To irhota it may concn'n :
Referring to tlie lecture tlolivered hy Rev. (". K. Perry, entitled "Canada: tlic (Jreater Britain," I have much ph'asure in saying tliat I have presided over a meeting wlien tliis leeture was delivered, and know tliat Mr. Perry \» a powerful and etl'ective speaker, well ver.sed in the subject-matter of his h-ctiire, and abh- to deliver it in a manner which is singularly well appivcialcd by his audience. In my judgment a lecture on this sid»ject, by Mr. Perry, is a high intellectual treat, and worthy tjf the [iatronage of all loyal citizens of Canada.
Yours truly,
W. D. mcphp:rson,
Count 1/ Master, Toronto.
23 Toronto Street,
Toronto, February 11th, 1897. To irhom it may concern :
I cheerfully testify to the eminent ability of the Rev. Chas. K. Perry, now pastor of the Mimieo Methodist Cliui eh. It has been my good pleasure to hear him freciueiitly during the past few yeais in his capacity as a public sj)eakei-, whos*; originality, ready humor, forcible arguments and pleasing manners meet with g 'neral ai)j)ro- bation and admiration. He is a true Canadian to tlic core, and never fails to impress upon his hearers tlu^ imi)ortan(c of those elements of cliaracter that tend to develop true nuiidiood.
Yours truly,
J. \V. ST, JOHN. M.IM'.
BOOKS BY THE SAME AUTHOR.
Errors of Romanism. The book contains over GOO pages. Price, $2.00.
Lectures on Orangeism and other subjects. Cloth, 50 cents ; paper, 35 cents.
Lecture on the Spanish Armada, the Siege of Derry, the Overthrow of the Gunpowder Plot and the Battle of the Boyne. Price, 10 cents.
Lecture on Rev. Father Chiniquy. Price, 10 cents.
Lecture on Canada: the Greater Britain. Price, 10 cents.
Tlie above works will be sent postpaid on receipt of price. Postage stamps taken.
Address —
REV. CHAS, E. PERRY,
MIMICO, ONT., CANADA.
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