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iSTlGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES NEW YORK AREA— PART I
(TESTIMONY OF JEAN MUIR)
Since these hearings are consecutively paged ;hey are arranged by page number instead of ilphabe tic ally by title.
HEARING
BEFORE THE
MITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JUNE 15, 1953
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
Released by committee May 25, 1955 Ordered to be printed
439
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1956
HAtWARDCOLLEGf. LIURAK)
DEPOSITED BY TriC U*»IT€D STATES GOVERNMBNT
JUN 7 1955
ClI
I
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES HOUSE OF EEPEESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
FEBRUARY 28, MARCH 1, AND APRIL 25, 1955
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities INCLUDING INDEX
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 61497 WASHINGTON : 1955
BASTARD COlLEGf LJgRARY
DEPOSITED BY Tr^C
MWITEO STATES GOVERNaflSNT
JUN t4l955
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives FRANCIS B. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLE' H. VELDE, Illinois
CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERBR, Ohio
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk
n
CONTENTS
February 28, 1955, testimony of — Page
Julia Jacobs 20
Lawrence Cover 56
John Thomas Gojack 71
March 1, 1955, testimony of —
John Thomas Gojack (resumed) 91
April 25, 1955, testimony of —
David Mates 158
Eugene Maurice Shafarman 200
Index ~ i
in
Public Law 601, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 753, 2d session, which provides:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES *******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEE * * * * * * ♦
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- tee, is authorized, to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (ii) if the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person designated by any such chairman or member.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84th CONGRESS House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- gress, the following standing committees :
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of ni^e members. Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES *******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Uu-Ameriean Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to take such testimony as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommitee, or by any member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- nated by any such chairman or member.
VI
IMESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AEEA
MONDAY, rEBRUARY 28, 1955
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee
ON Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G. public hearing
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to notice, at 10 : 20 a. m., in the caucus room, 362, Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder (chairman) , Clyde Doyle, and Gordon H. Scherer.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
This subcommittee was appointed pursuant to the rules of the House as ordered by Francis E. Walter, chairman of the full committee, and it is composed of three members, the Hon. Clyde Doyle, of California, on my right, the Hon. Gordon H. Scheror, of Ohio, and myself as chair- man of the subcommittee. Mr. Scherer, of Ohio, is absent and will be present within the next few minutes.
There will be considered at this hearing testimony relating to Com- munist Party activities within the field of labor, the methods used by the Communist Party to infiltrate labor organizations, and the dis- semination of Communist Party propaganda.
We had expected to hear at this time the testimony of David Mates, an international representative of the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America. His appearance before this committee was continued twice at his own request. At this time the inability of the United States marshal to effect service of process strongly indi- cates an effort on the part of Mr. Mates to evade service. This matter will be investigated and, if the facts warrant, the House of Representa- tives will be requested to cause the issuance of a warrant for his arrest and production before this committee as a witness.
In the course of the investigation conducted by this committee at Dayton in September 1954, information was obtained indicating that one or more of the witnesses to be heard today should have firsthand knowledge of Communist Party activities in the area of Dayton and elsewhere.
Mr. Tavenner, are you ready to proceed ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
19
20 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Moulder. Call your first witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Julia Jacobs, ^\\\\ you come forward, please ?
Mr. DoNNER. My name is Frank Donner. I am counsel for Miss Jacobs and two other witnesses who have been subpenaed today. Be- fore Miss Jacobs is sworn in, may I file with the committee for incor- poration in the record a motion addressed as to the jurisdiction of the committee to proceed.
Mr. Moulder. You may file the motion; and then whatever action the committee desires to take upon it, we will take.
Mr. DoNXER. Will it be physically incorporated in the record, sir?
Mr. Moulder. We will decide that question after we have examined the motion.
Mr. Donner. I will file two copies with the committee.
Mr. Moulder. Let the record show that the motion by counsel is duly filed.
Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Miss Jacobs. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JULIA JACOBS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, FRANK J. DONNER
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please ?
Miss Jacobs. My name is Julia Jacobs.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. I believe you are accompanied by counsel.
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Donner. My name is Frank J. Donner. I am an attorney prac- ticing in New York City, 342 Madison Avenue.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Miss Jacobs?
Miss Jacobs. I was born in Dayton, Ohio, March 2, 1920.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ?
Miss Jacobs. I live in St. Joseph, Mich.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- cational training has been, that is, your formal educational training.
Miss Jacobs. Elementary school and high school.
Mr. Tavenner. At what place ?
Miss Jacobs. Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed, Miss Jacobs ?
Miss Jacobs. I am the office secretary of the UE Local 931 of St. Joseph, Mich.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been secretary of local 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. I have been employed twice there, once in 1950 and then I left in
Mr. Tavenner. Was that in 1950 that you first became employed by local 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Of what union is local 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. LTnited Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Tavenner. What time in the year 1950 were you employed ?
Miss Jacobs. As I recall, it was from about the middle of April 1950 until the end of 1951.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 21
Mr. Tavenner. Then what was your next employment with local 931, UE ?
Miss Jacobs. My next employment was, I believe, in March 1953 until presently.
Mr. Tavenner. How were 3"ou employed between the end of 1951 and March 1953?
Miss Jacobs. I was an organizer for this same union in the South.
Mr. Tavexner. Where in the South ?
Miss Jacobs. Mostly Magnavox at Greeneville, Tenn. Magnavox Co. in Tennessee.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you begin your assignment in Greene- ville, Tenn. ?
Miss Jacobs. I believe it was January 1952.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain there ?
Miss Jacobs. I left that job in January 1953.
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed between January of 1953 and March of 1953 ?
Miss Jacobs. I wasn't employed at all.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any work during that period of time?
Miss Jacobs. No. I was ill during that period.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the acceptance of the position of secretary of local 931 in April 1950, how were you employed ?
Miss Jacobs. Would you repeat that ?
Mr. Tavenner. Just prior to April 1950 when you took your posi- tion as secretary with local 931, how were you employed, and where?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I would like to make a correction here on my employ- ment date. I started to work in St. Joseph, JSIich., the first time, I believe it was July or August 1950, and from about April until that time I was the office secretary for district 9 in Fort Wayne, Ind.
Mr. Tavenner. That answer is a little confusing to me. You began employment in St. Joseph in July of 1950 ?
Miss Jacobs. Or August.
Mr. Tavenner. 'V^Hiat was the nature of your employment ?
Miss Jacobs. I was the office secretary.
Mr. Tavenner. Of what local ^
Miss Jacobs. Local 931.
Mr. Tavenner. The same local, 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. The only change in your testimony is that you began in July 1950 instead of April 1950?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand. Then prior to July 1950, how and where were you employed ?
Miss Jacobs. I was employed as the office secretary in the district office for our union from about April 1950 until I went to St. Joseph.
Mr. Tavenner. Where was that?
Miss Jacobs. In Fort Wayne, Ind.
Mr. Tavenner. What district was that ?
Miss Jacobs. District 9.
Mr. Tam^nner. You were office secretary in the district office?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
22 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. What was the reason for your transfer from the position of office secretary in the district office in Fort Wayne to the position of secretary of local 931 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. Well, it wasn't a question of transfer. The local in St. Joseph was having, I don't know whether it was a raid or some- thing like that, coming up from another union, and they needed some- one to work in the office. The secretary was ill, and they asked me to come up there and work.
Mr. Tavenner. You say the secretary got ill ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the reason you were assigned, just because there was a vacancy there ?
Miss Jacobs. No. They had an office secretary who during this — I don't know all the details, because they occurred before I got there, but at the time she got ill, they needed a secretary and they asked me to come there, so I did, temporarily. The secretary never did come back, and they asked me to take the job on a permanent basis.
Mr. Tavenner. You say they asked you. Wlio asked you ?
Miss Jacobs. The local executive board.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlio were on that local executive board ?
Miss Jacobs. I can't recall the names of the people at this time be- cause there were quite a few, 12, something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. We will talk more about that presently.
Prior to April 1950, how were you employed ?
Miss Jacobs. I was employed as the office secretary for the organi- zational department of our union in Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. TVhat district was that ?
Miss Jacobs. That was district 7.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you first become employed in that posi- tion?
Miss Jacobs. It is kind of hard to remember dates, because I worked on and off for the union. Occasionally I worked someplace else. I can give you a date, but I am not sure it would be correct.
Mr. Tavenner. The best you can.
Miss Jacobs. I would say in the spring of 1948.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Why were your services terminated at Dayton?
Miss Jacobs. Well, as I recall — I am not exactly sure. It may have had something to do with cutting the staff, something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time you left Dayton, had the UE lost an election which in any way affected your transfer ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. Yes, we lost an election at two General Motors plants there.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did that have anything to do with your transfer?
Miss Jacobs. Well, no. It isn't a question of transfer. At the time, the position of office secretary in the district 9 office was open, and it was offered to me, but it is not a question of transfer. I could take it or not take it, or do anything I pleased.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wlio was it who offered that position to you; that is, the transfer to Fort Wayne ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. John Go jack, who was district president.
Mr. Tavenner. District president of district No. 7 at that time?
COIMI^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 23
Miss Jacobs. District 9.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in any way in the Univis Lens strike at Dayton ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. May I have that question repeated, please? Will the reporter please read that question and answer ?
(^Vhereupon, the question and answer were read by the reporter as follows :)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in any way in the Univis Lens strike at Dayton?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Taa^nnek. A-VHiy do you decline to testify as to whether or not you took part in the Univis Lens strike in Dayton ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. I might state, Mr. Chairman, I did not know it was unlawful or a violation of law to participate in a strike.
INIr. Moulder. Let the record show that the witness is now consult- ing with her counsel.
Miss Jacobs. WiU you repeat your question, please ?
Mr. Tavenner. Eead the question, please.
(Whereupon, the question was read by the reporter as follows:)
Mr. Tavenner. Why do you decline to testify as to whether or not you took part in the Univis Lens strike in Dayton?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question, too, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness be directed to answer.
Mr. Moulder. Yes, Miss Jacobs, the committee directs you to an- swer that question for the reason tliat it appears that there is no vaild reason or cause which appears from the question which would involve you in any criminal prosecution as a result of having participated in a strike which is authorized by the laws of our country. Therefore, you are directed to answer the question.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Univis Lens strike have anything to do with the ultimate decision of your leaving Dayton, Ohio, and going to an- other place ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer tliat question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I tliink the record should show that the committee certainly has no objection to the witness conferring with her counsel. Let us make that clear to the witness and counsel. We do like the record to show when that is occurring. I wanted to make that statement so counsel and the witness would understand we were not making that record because we have any objection to it.
Mr. DoNNER. I would like to respond to that, that I know of rules which forbid me to. I understand tlutt.
24 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND,, AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Jacobs, did you learn that you were to be sus- penaed by the Ohio State Committee on Un-American Activities as a witness at any time prior to April 1950 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you influenced in any way in your decision to go to Fort AVayne, Ind., by the contemplated action of the Ohio State Committee on Un-American Activities in subpenaing you ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed prior to 1948 when you took your position as secretary for the organizational department of your union, district 7, at Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. I was employed by the White Motor Co., in Cleve- land, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there?
Miss Jacobs. I think I worked there for about 3 months or so.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that employment, what employment did you have ?
Miss Jacobs. I worked for the Himes Bros. Dairy in Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us that name ?
Miss Jacobs. Himes i3ros., H-i-m-e-s.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work there ?
Miss Jacobs^ About 3 months.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that, what employment did you have?
Miss Jacobs. I worked for the Adler & Childs department store in Dayton for about the same period.
Mr. Tavenner. For a period of 3 months ?
Miss Jacobs. As I recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Approximately?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that employment, what employment did you have ?
Miss Jacobs. Prior to that, I believe I worked for local 768 of the same union in Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner, In what capacity did you work for the local?
Miss Jacobs. As office secretary.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the number of the local ?
Miss Jacobs. 768.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work for the local on that occa-
sion
Miss Jacobs. I can't remember. I will have to guess. Say two and a half years.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold the same position during the entire period ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I believe so.
Mr. Tavenner. Approximately when did you begin that work?
Miss Jacobs. I can't remember the date.
Mr. Tavenner. You said about 2 years. Would that make it in 1945 or 1946 ?
Miss Jacobs. About that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you say as early as 1945 ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 25
Miss Jacobs. It could be.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time were you living m Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. So you lived in Dayton from 1945 up until approxi- mately— until sometime in 1947 or 1918, when you went to Cleve- land, and then you lived in Dayton again from 1948 on until 1950 when you went to Fort Wayne ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your address while living in Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. 1718 West Riverview.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the only address you had while living in Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Could I ask, Mr. Chairman, if that was the address at which she received the mail or where she lived, or if she received mail at some other place I
Miss Jacobs. Yes. I lived there, and I got my mail there, too.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what your duties were as office secretary in Dayton while 3"ou were secre- tary of the organizational department of No. 7 \
Miss Jacobs. It was an office with only one secretary. I just did everything. I took dictation and answered the telephone, filed, just anything there was to do.
(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. How was your salary paid, that is, by whom?
Miss Jacobs. By the organizational department ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Miss Jacobs. It was paid by the national office of the UE.
Mr. Tavenner. You were paid, then, by the international organiza- tion?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your superior in the office in Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, I had two, really, who you might say ran the office. Lem Markland, who was our district president at the time, and Arthur Garfield, who was the head of organization at the time.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the circumstaces under which Arthur Garfield came to Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. No ; I don't.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he brought there at the time of tlie Univis Lens strike from another locality ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. DoNNER. Let it be understood when the witness says "fifth amendment," she means the privilege against self-incrimination.
Mr. Moulder. It will be so understood.
Mr. Tavenner. You were the secretary to Mr. Lem Markland and Mr. Arthur Garfield ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your salary during that period ?
Miss Jacobs. I am sorry, I don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't know ? You served there quite a number of years. You certainly must be able
26 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
IVIiss Jacobs. I would say around $50 or $60.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it supplemented by contributions from any other source ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. So your entire pay for all your services was $50 to $60?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. For what period ; a week ?
Miss Jacobs. A week, per week.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that paid by the international organization?
Miss Jacobs. By our national office in New York.
Mr. Tavenner. When you moved to Fort Wayne, what salary did you receive ?
Miss Jacobs. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was similar to that.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your superior in Fort Wayne ?
Miss Jacobs. James Gojack.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Gojack have anything to do with your re- ceiving the appointment at that place, Fort Wayne ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, I think I said before, the position there was open, and he advised me that it was and if I chose to, I could take that job, that it was open for most anybody to apply.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your superior when you moved to St. Joseph ?
Miss Jacobs. In St. Joe, it is the top officers and the executive board.
Mr. Doyle. I did not hear that.
Miss Jacobs. The officers of the local and the executive board.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you were secretary to the board at that place, is that what you mean ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, again, that is the office with only one secretary in it, and whether it is the board or whether it is an officer, or what- ever
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your superior there ?
Miss Jacobs. My superior is the executive board and the officers. It may sound kind of odd, but
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Gojack connected in any way with the executive board in any capacity ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Gojack have anything to do with your transfer to that position?
Miss Jacobs. Before I took the job for the local, I was working in the district office in Fort Wayne, where Mr. Gojack's office is, but I was asked to come to St. Joe by the executive board of the local and the officers.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Was that at the suggestion of Mr. Gojack?
Miss Jacobs. I really don't know. I mean, I don't think he objected to it, as I recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Mr. Gojack did confer with the executive board about the matter in your behalf ?
Miss Jacobs. I couldn't say.
Mr. Tavenner. Who on the executive board who got in touch with you ?
Miss Jacobs. At the time, I don't recall, because it was a kind of unanimous opinion. Probably it was the president and 1 or 2 other officers who discussed it with me.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 27
Mr. Tavenner. Is the executive board to which you referred, at St. Joseph, under district No. 9 ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, there is a district executive board, but that is not this. This is the local union executive board. We are in the same district.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat position did Mr. Go jack hold in the district organization ?
Miss Jacobs. District president.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your salary increased while employed as sec- retary at 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. How much ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, at the time that I went there, I believe they were paying $45. Then we worked out a collective-bargaining con- tract with wage increases. I think it went up to about $60 or $65. I am not real sure now.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you receive the salary of $45?
Miss Jacobs. Just a short period. I would say a matter of weeks, several weeks, something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Whv would you have left a job which paid you $50 to $60 a week to take one at $45 ?
Miss Jacobs. Perhaps I should say that this $45 was paid, I don^t know, for a short period, 1 or 2 or 3 weeks, and then my salary went up beyond
Mr. Scherer. You had no assurance, did you, when you took the jcb at $45 that it would be increased to $65 ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, when they asked me to take the job, I had dis- cussed the matter with them, and they had indicated that they were willing to increase my salary.
Mr. Scherer. You said you got the salary increase as a result of a collective bargaining
Miss Jacobs. Contract with the local.
Mr. Scherer. That took place after you were employed, however, did it not ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. You alone did not participate in those negotiations, did you ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Do I understand you were the top secretary ?
Miss Jacobs. I was the only secretary.
Mr. Doyle. Do I understand that this union paid you only $45 a week, that small compensation, for top secretary, and then raised you to only $60 or $65 a week ? Is that your testimony ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes. As I recall, the contract at that time called for regular increases at periods of, I don't know, 6 months. At the end of a year, then you would receive $60 or $65. That isn't my salary now, but that is what the agreement was.
Mr. Doyle. The purport of my question was that I am quite sur- prised that you were getting paid so little. That is what amazes me.
Mr. Scherer. Were you the only party to that contract ?
Miss Jacobs. No. The executive board
Mr. Scherer. Of course they were the party on the other side.
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
28 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. ScHERER. You were the only party of the second part ?
Miss Jacobs. I am the only one who signed ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you perform practically the same functions and the same duties as secretary while you were with 931 that you did while you were at Fort Wayne and at Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. No. not exactly. In addition to being the office sec- retary, in the fall of 1950 1 was elected recording secretary of the local.
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that you acted as secretary of local 768 for about 2 years, beginning in 1945 or 1946 on up to 1948.
]Miss Jacobs. I don't believe the dates are just right. I don't recall the dates.
Mr. Tavenner. But that was the general period that you were sec- retary there.
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the nature of your duties then — substan- tially the same as later when you came back from Cleveland ?
Miss Jacobs. No. About the only diil'erence that I can recall was that for a period there, we issued a local paper, of which I was editor.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that ? Was that during your first em- ployment or later employment ?
jNIiss Jacobs. I would say it was sometime during this period of 1945, 1946, or 1947.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the name of the paper ?
Miss Jacobs. It was called Facts.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your superior during that period of time, that is, to whom were you secretary ?
Miss Jacobs. There were a number of people in the office. I believe Mr. Kirkendall.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is Mr. Kirkendall's name ?
Miss Jacobs. Kermit M. Kirkendall. '
Mr. Tavenner. Did he have a nickname ?
Miss Jacobs. I believe people called him Kirk.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he formerly State senator in Ohio?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you work for him during the entire period that you have spoken of, of approximately 2 years?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I believe so.
Mr. Tavenner. What about the payment of your salary during that period of time. Was that paid by the local or was it paid by the international union ?
Miss Jacobs. It was paid by the local.
Mr. Tavenner. What was that salary ?
Miss Jacobs. I don't really remember. I would say about $45 or $50, something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that salary supplemented from any other source ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Scherer. Did you have an expense allowance of any kind. Miss Witness ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the salary paid you while you were secretary of the local under Mr. Kirkendall considered at any time as payment
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND,, AREA 29
to you for services rendered by you for other causes besides the union ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you do any work for the Communist Party during the period of time that you were working as secretary to Mr. Kirkendall 'i
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenxer. Was the matter discussed with you and Mr. Kirken- dall as to whether or not the union should pay you for part-time services to the Communist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask, Mr. Chairman, if her work for the union was a full-time job '^
Miss Jacobs. Yes, it was.
Mr. Doyle. Then if you were doing any work for the Communist Party during the time you were secretary of the local and being paid the very small sum of $45 or $50 a week, you were doing it on the time of the local, were you not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. Did you receive any compensation from the Com- munist Party at any time ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Scherer. If you did not receive any compensation from the Communist Party, would you tell us ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Scherer. Was not your primary income from the Communist Party rather than your salary from this local ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Scherer. Is it not a fact that that is the reason you received such a small salary from the local, because the greater portion of your income came from the Communist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I think the record shows that the witness has sworn under oath that she received nothing in addition to the salary from the local ; that she received no other funds to supplement that in- come. In answer to my question she stated that her job for the local was a full-time job.
Mr. Moulder. That is correct, as I recall it. That is the testimony of the witness.
Mr. Moulder. Miss Jacobs, while acting as secretary for Mr. Kirk- endall in the union offices, did you there, that is, in the union offices, prepare leaflets for the Communist Party by use of the facilities afforded by the union, such as mimeograph machine, paper, and ink?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Melvin Hupman?
61497—55 2
30 COMMUNIST ACTRaTIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. ScKERER. Is lie the one who was convicted out in my town for viohition of the perjury statute under the Taft-Hartley law?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tayenner. Did you at any time attend a meeting at his home at which the matter of your duties as secretary was discussed?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you testify in his trial in the Federal court? I do not recall.
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. ScHERER. You know that he is now in the penitentiary, do you not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Jacobs, while at Dayton, this committee heard a witness by the name of Arthur Strunk. Mr. Strunk was a witness in tJie case just referred to by Congressman Scherer in the Federal court when Mr. Hupman was convicted under the Taft-Hartley Act.
Mr. Scherer. For perjury.
Mr. Tavenner. I think for perjury under the Taft-Hartley Act.
Mr. Strunk's identity as an employee of the Federal Bureau of Investigation first became known when he testified in Federal court in that case. It developed that Mr. Strunk had been a member of the Communist Party at Dayton for a number of years, and had risen there in the party to the position of treasurer or dues collector.
Mr. Strunk testified before this committee. I want you to under- stand what his testimony was, and I want your statement as to whether there is any part of it which is untrue.
Were you acquainted with Mr. Strunk?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. TA\nENNER. Mr. Strunk testified that you paid Communist Party dues to him. Is that true?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Scherer. I think we should say at the outset, for the benefit of the press and others, that Mr. Strunk was an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. What is his first name — Arthur ?
Mr. Tavenner. Arthur Strunk, S-t-r-u-n-k.
Mr. Strunk gave us this information regarding you:
Julie Jacobs, * * * 1718 West Riverview Avenue, Dayton, Ohio. When she was a party member in Dayton she was an office worker at 768.
Mr. Clardy. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Scherer. Yes, Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardt. This Julie Jacobs, according to the information I have, now lives in Michigan, Bay City, and is engaged at the moment in helping foment trouble that is going on at one of the companies engaged in guided missile work for the defense of our country, the Square D strike in Detroit I am referring to.
Do you have any idea as to whether she left this part of the country and moved into Michigan?
Mr. Strunk. Well, she, after the Univis strike, Julie was transferred to somewhere to Pennsylvania. I don't know exactly where.
May I ask you at this point, have you at any time lived in Bay City, Mich.?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 31
Miss Jacobs. No. I have never been to Bay City, Mich.
Mr. Tavenner. According to Congressman Clardy's information you had been connected in some way with the strike at the Square D plant. Were you active in any way in connection with that strike?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. No. I was not active in the Square D strike at all.
Mr. Travenner. Did you participate in any manner in it ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you have a sister ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment,
Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct her to answer that question as to whether she has a sister.
Mr. D0YI.E. It would not incriminate you, would it, if you had a sister or gave her name if we asked you that ?
Mr. ScHERER. She is worried about the next question I am going to ask her, but I think she should be directed to answer this question.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr, ScHERER. It is your sister who was identified with the Square D strike in Detroit, was it not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that.
Mr. ScHERER. That is the reason you decline to answer whether you have a sister or not ?
Miss Jacobs, I decline to answer that for the same reason,
Mr. ScHERER, Were you in Detroit at the time of the Square D strike ?
Miss Jacobs, No. As a matter of fact, I have been in Detroit only once in my life, and that was in 1950.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this, Mr. Chairman : What was your occupa- tion at the time of the strike in which you said you did not take an active part ? Where were you working ?
Miss Jacobs. I have been the office secretary of local 931 ever since April of 1953, 1 guess.
Mr, Doyle. Was that strike right in the same city where you were employed by the local, or how far away ?
Miss Jacobs. St. Joe is roughly 200 miles from Detroit.
Mr. Tavenner. Continuing with the testimony of Mr. Strunk, I asked him this question :
Let me ask you more about her. What position did she hold in the union ; do you know?
Mr. Strunk. She was an oflBce worker, paid by tlie union, as far as I under- stand.
That is correct, isn't it ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't that exactly what you testified to here, that you were paid by the union and that you were an office worker in the union? Isn't that exactly what I asked you a moment ago and what you testified to ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I testified that I worked for the union and that was mv total income.
32 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Ta^^nner. That is true, then, isn't it? You were testifying to the truth, weren't you? Miss Jacobs. Yes. _ Mr. Tavenner. This question :
Who was her superior?
Mr. Stbunk. Mr. Kirkendall. He was, I think, the secretary of 708 at that time.
Was Mr. Kirkendall the secretary of 768 at that time ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. You were his secretary, were you not ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. This statement is true in regard to that, isn't it?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. SciiERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that ques- tion, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder.. You are directed to answer the question, because there is no valid reason for your refusing to answer it.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner (reading) :
Mr. Tavennek. What was Mr. Kirkendall's first name?
Mr. Strunk. K. M. Kirliendall.
Mr. Tavennee. She worked in his office?
Mr. Steunk. Correct.
Mr. Tavenner. While he was secretary of the union?
Mr. Strunk. He was her boss.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, she was a member of the Communist Party?
That is in the form of a question. [Keading :] Mr. Strunk. Yes.
You see, Mr. Strunk had already identified you as a member of the Communist Party by his testimony. [Keading :]
Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Communist Party also, that is, Mr. K. M. Kirkendall?
Mr. Strunk. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Had both of them paid dues to you?
Mr. Strunk. Correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any time when any special services of Julie Jacobs were sought by the Communists?
Then Mr. Strunk replied :
Julie Jacobs was very active in the Communist Party, in the whole Dayton section. One meeting I remember ; it was in Hupman's residence. Mr. K. M. Kirkendall was present and Julie Jacobs was present. Kirkendall was advised to let Julie Jacobs do party work and to be paid by the union, her salary to be paid by the union.
Mr. Scherer. That meeting that Strunk testified about at Dayton, he also testified that it was a closed Communist Party meeting, did he not ? At least that is my recollection,
Mr. Tavenner. I do not recall it specifically, Mr. Congressman.
Miss Jacobs, is there anything untrue in that statement of Mr. Strunk as to the proposal that you be paid for Communist Party work out of union funds ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND,, AREA 33
Mr. Tavennek. Isn't it true that that conversation did take phice in your j^resence ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it true that you were paid for Communist Party work out of union funds ?
Miss Jacobs. I dechne to answer that for the same reason.'
Mr. ScHERER. If that wasn't true, wouldn't you tell us?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answ^er that for the same reason.
Mr. DoTLE. Mr. Chairman, how could she be paid for something else when she has testified that all the pay she got was from the local, and that that was a full-time job.
Mr. ScHERER. That is correct, but the question now, Mr. Doyle, is whether it was not for Communist Party work rather than for local nnion work.
Mr. DoYLE. But she has testified under oath that her full job was full-time for the local,
Mr. ScHERER. If that testimony was true, then she should answer my question rather than take the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. I do not counter that, but how could she be working for someone else if only one boss paid her and that took all her time.
May I ask, did you work for the Communist Party or any other em- ployer after hours, after your ordinary work hours for the local ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. Maybe that is the answer.
Did you work during the noon hour for the Communist Party and the rest of the time for the local ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Scherer. The fact is that your work for the local and your work for the Communist Party was synonymous, was it not?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. May I say again, Mr, Chairman, I just cannot believe that a great big, numerically strong local such as the local she worked for was paying her only $45 or $50 a week. That just seems unreason- able to me.
Mr. Scherer. I cannot believe that, either. That is the reason I think she was getting some additional compensation, and her taking the fifth amendment indicates that she was.
Mr. Doyle. I thought unions, organized labor, believed in decent pay for their emjiloyees and for other employees.
Miss Jacobs. But you have to fight for it like anybody else does. They have to fight for it like everybody else does.
Mr. Scherer. You mean with the union ?
Mr. Doyle. You mean you had to fight with your local officers to get a decent wage ?
Miss Jacobs, As I said, when I went to St, Joe we negotiated a con- tract, and it was negotiated like any other contract is, argument and everything else. As a result, I now get $75 a week.
Mr, Doyle, Isn't that big pay ?
Miss Jacobs. It is for that area.
Mr. Doyle. It is better than $45, 1 admit.
Mr. Scherer. Do you get any pay from the Communist Party today?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
34 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Moulder. Of course, that leads to the apparent conclusion that you have been dividing your time in work for the Communist Party and also for the union, or that they are both one and the same thing insofar as your services are concerned.
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Jacobs, in reply to further questioning about your activities, Mr. Strunk testified as follows :
She- referring to you —
did a lot of work for the Communist Party that time.
Ml'. Tavenner. And was she paid by the union for that work?
Mr. Strunk. She did not work full time, but she worked a lot of hours for the Communist Party and was paid by the union.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what union was that, do you know?
Mr. Strunk. It must have been 768. That is Kirkendall's union. It used to be on East Fifth Street.
Is there any error or falsitv of any character in that testimonv by Mr. Strunk?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. Mr. Tavenner (reading) :
Mr. Tavenner. Did the rank and file membership of that union know its funds were being used directly to pay for Communist Party work?
Mr. Strunk. Not the rank and file. Only a few knew that, those that were present at the Communist Party meeting.
Have you heard discussed in your union by any of its leaders that union dues were being used to pay members for work in the Com- munist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. This question was asked Mr. Strunk:
What was the character of work that Julie Jacobs was doing for the Com- munist Party while being paid by the union?
Mr. Strunk. Mimeographing leaflets, setting up the leaflets, and taking care of the work, pamphlets and stuff.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what kind of leaflets these were that she worked on?
Mr. Strunk. Definitely Communist Party leaflets.
Mr. Clardy. Did you say several?
Mr. Strunk. Definitely Communist Party leaflets, prepared in the oflSce, on a union mimeographing machine ; used union mimeograph paper and irfls, paid by the union, used for Communist Party purposes.
Did you engage in that type of activity ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Much has been said at different times about the op- portunity of a witness to deny or affii'm or to meet their accused or make explanations of charges that have been made against them. You have that opportunity here today. Do you wish to make any explana- tion or to deny or affirm any part of the testimony which has been quoted by Mr. Tavenner? You can answer that question "Yes" or "No."
Mr. ScHERER. Keeping in mind that the man who gave that testi- mony was an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investi- gation.
Mr. Doyle. You refer, Mr. Chairman, to Arthur Strunk ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Miss Jacobs. You are referring to this testimony ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 35
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Then I take it you do not wish to make any explana- tion or to deny or affirm any pa rt of it.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- tion whether she desires to make any explanation, deny or affirm. She certainly cannot invoke the fifth amendment on that question.
Mr. Moulder. I think you are right. The committee directs you to answer the question.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Strunk further testified as follows :
At the time Julie Jacobs was in Dayton, she was always a very active Com- munist Party member. She attended many meetings with me, went many times with me on the worker brigade to sell Sunday and Daily Workers. She attended many meetings. She paid me dues very regularly.
Is there any part of that statement which is incorrect ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever engage in selling the Sunday Worker and the Daily Worker or either of them ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay Communist Party dues at any time while living in Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
]\Ir. Ta\t:nner. What knowledge do you have, Miss Jacobs, of the financial operations of your union in your present position as secretary of local 931 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean you refuse to answer what opportunity yon have had to know of the financial operations of the union? I am not sure that you understood my question.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that she be directed to answer Mr. Tavenner's question.
Mr. Moulder. Yes. The Chair directs the witness to answer the question concerning wiiether or not she had an opportunity to obtain any knowledge on that question.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question for the same reason.
Mr. Scherer. I think the witness is clearly in contempt for refusal to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of contributions by local 9.31 to what are known as Communist-front causes ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, that question may suggest or assume that the witness knows what a Communist front is. I wonder if the ques- tion could be rephrased not to assume that she knows anything about Commimist fronts.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. If she does not, nobody else does.
Mr. Tam^nner. Let me ask you this : Have you any knowledge about contributions made by your local union to the National Negro Labor Council?
36 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner, Do you know of any donations or subscriptions to the March of Labor ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. In regard to that, I hand you a letter bearing the date October 8, 1951, addressed to "Dear Sister Jacobs," purportedly signed by Nathan Solomon, on the stationary of the March of Labor. I will ask you to examine it and state whether or not you received that letter.
(At this point Mr. Tavenner showed Miss Jacobs a document.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the letter in evidence and ask that it be marked "Jacobs Exhibit No. 1," for identification purposes only, and to be made a part of the committee files.
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. The letter states :
In your letter of August 31 you advised of the possibility of ordering 200 copies of the October issue.
Then in a postscript in ink appears this :
October 9. This letter was about to be sent when your telegram for 200 copies arrived. They are being shipped.
Did you wire for 200 copies of March of Labor ?
Miss Jacobs I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Who gave you authority to procure the March of Labor for dissemination in your local ?
Miss Jacobs I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did John (lojack have anything to do with it?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did John Gojack at any time encourage the acqui- sition of copies of March of Labor ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the money for the March of Labor to be paid out of your local treasury ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever issue ciiecks or draw any checks — I mean by that, write any checks, regardless of who may have signed them — on any funds of your local in payment for the March of Labor magazine ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. For donations to the National Negro Labor Council ?
Miss Jacobs, I decline to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Doyle. Mr, Chairman, may I ask Mr. Tavenner if he will tell us wliat the March of Labor is, who they are, if they have ever been declared subversive or a Communist front? Wlio is the March of Labor ?
Mr. Appell. We held a hearing on that, Mr. Doyle.
Mr, Doyle. I think I know exactly who they are, but I think the record here ought to show what that group is, should it not ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes, There should be some brief explanation,
Mr. Tavenner. There has been a full report on the March of Labor issued by this committee as of December 22, 1954, which shows that it was founded by John Steuben, who was one of the part owners of it, and who w- as a charter member of the Communist Party.
COMIMUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYXE, IXD., AREA 37
Mr. ScHEKER. The report of this committee indicates that the March of Labor is a Communist-dominated and controlled publication for the purpose of disseminating the Communist Party line, does it not, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Ta\t:xner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. This committee published a report as of what date ?
Mr. Tavenner. December 22, 1954.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenxer. Are you aware of contributions made of union funds by local 931 to the American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Scherer. That is also a Communist-front organization, and has been so cited, has it not, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Do you know whether contributions have been made of union funds to American Peace Crusade ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your local 931 send a delegation to Washington on March 15, 1951, which was part of the program of the Peace Crusade ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. How were the expenses of persons coming to Wash- ington paid, do you know ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a handwritten, pencil-written note ad- dressed to Julie Jacobs, and ask you to examine it, please, and state what it refers to.
(At this point Mr. Tavenner handed Miss Jacobs a document. The witness conferred Avith her counsel. )
Mr. Doyle. May the record show, Mr. Chairman, that the witness is carefully scrutinizing the exhibit and conferring with counsel in connection therewith.
Miss Jacobs. I don't really know what it is. I think it is a raffle.
Mr. Tavenner. You think it was the means used to raise some money ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose for which that money was to be used ?
Miss Jacobs. I don't know what it is exactly, but it is some raffle. The local has raffles every noAv and then.
Mr. Tavenner. When money is raised, it is usually raised for a definite purpose, isn't it ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, but I can't recall what it is.
]Mr. Tavenner. If you would read this carefully, it may refresh your recollection. Do 3'ou see the words "for Washington, D. C." m the third line?
Miss Jacobs. I can tell you what I think it is, but I may not be right. I think there was some unemployment in the plant at the time, and they sent a delegation to Washington to get material, or something like that, so they would have more jobs.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you think that had reference to legitimate union purposes?
38 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Miss Jacobs. Yes. Tliey have made a number of trips, I think once to get copper for tubs, and that type of thing,
Mr. Taa^nner. You are perfectly willing to tell the committee about this legitimate trip to Washington sometime after March 29. Why is it that you will not tell us about the trip to Washington on March 15 in connection with the American Peace Crusade ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not you have participated at any time in a plan to have persons employed in industry visit foreign countries ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Do you know the source of funds for the sending of people into Iron Curtain countries in 1951-52 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Taatenner. Do you know whether there was a plan emanating from Europe to permit certain selected individuals in the United States to travel in foreign countries behind the Iron Curtain?
Mr. Moulder, You are referring to Communist-dominated coun- tries, of course, are you not ?
Mr. Tavenner. By "Iron Curtain countries," yes, sir.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you known John Gojack ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that you were secretary to John Gojack, that you were acquainted witli him. You have testified at some length regarding him. Now I am asking you how long you have known him. Do you still persist in refusing to answer the question?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Mr, Chairman, I move that she be instructed to answer that question.
Mr. Moulder. Yes, the witness is so instructed, because she has opened up the subject. Therefore, she has no valid reason for claiming the fifth amendment,
Mr. Doyle. I assume she at least knew him during the time he was her employer, from her own testimony,
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner, I believe you told us in the beginning of your testi- mony that between July 1950 and the end of 1951, you were living in St, Joseph, and then there was a period when you were in the South working, and that you then returned in March 1953 to St, Joseph.
Miss Jacobs, Yes.
Mr, Tavenner, Specifically, where were you living in, say, Decem- ber 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I should add here that I was living in La Porte, Ind. I was there for about a month for an election campaign.
Mr. Tavenner. "What was the period that you lived in La Porte?
Miss Jacobs. It w^as just a matter of weeks.
Mr, Tavenner, In what year and in what month ?
Miss Jacobs, This was at the end of 1951. I believe it was Decem- ber 1951,
Mr, Tavenner, Was that around Christmastime, the latter part of the year, that you lived in La Porte ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 39
Miss Jacobs. Yes. I think it was during most of the month of December.
Mr. Tavenner. How far is La Porte from St. Joseph ?
Miss Jacobs. About 30 or 40 miles.
Mr. Tavenner. How far is it from Fort Wayne ?
Miss Jacobs. La Porte?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Miss Jacobs. I suppose one-hundred-and-something.
Mr. Tavenner. ^Vhere did you live in November 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I left; I quit my job as office secretary in the latter part of 1951. It was probably November. I can't recall the exact dates. From St. Joe I moved to La Porte. In St. Joe, I lived at that time, I believe I lived on State Street.
Mr. Tavenner. Then I think it would be accurate to state that you were living either in St. Joseph or in La Porte during the month of December.
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. You did not live in Fort Wayne at any time during that period ? ,
Miss Jacobs. I don't recall living there.
Mr. Tavenner. You know you didn't, as a matter of fact, don't you, if you were living at La Porte during that period of time.
Miss Jacobs. AVell, I mean to the best of my knowledge and my memory, that is the way I recall it.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you assist Mr, Go jack in any manner in making an arrangement to travel abroad in December 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. TA^T.NNER. Did Mr. Gojack confer with you and ask your as- sistance in any regard, such, for instance, as identifying him on his passport application ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on tlie same grounds.
Mr. Tavenntj?. I hand you a photostatic copy of an application for passport signed and sworn to on the l^th day of December 1951 to which you were a witness. Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not the signature, "Julia Jacobs," is your signature?
Mr. Appell. Here is the front half of it.
(At this point, the documents were placed before the witness.)
Mr. DoYLE. May the record show, Mr. Chairman, that the witness and her counsel are carefully scrutinizing the two documents handed her by counsel for the committee.
Mr. MouivDER. It is so ordered.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the document again and state what address appears under the name "Julia Jacobs" ?
(Witness examining document.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read into tlie record, please, what it is? I am not asking you whether it is true or false at this time.
Miss Jacobs. The address is 2303 Florida, Fort Wayne, Ind.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask, Mr. Chairman, under what name that ad- dress appears. That is in connection with what name ?
Mr. Ta\^nner. That address appears under the name of the wit- ness, Julia Jacobs.
Mr. DoYi.E. Thank you.
40 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. With a notation under the address of "Residence ad- dress of witness.''
Have you ever lived at 2303 Florida, Fort Wayne, Ind. ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you live tliere?
Miss Jacobs. I lived there for part of the period when I first went to St. Joe — to Fort Wayne.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness, did I not just hear you say a minute ago that you did not recall ever living in Fort Wayne ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Doyle, if you will permit me to say so, I asked her the question whether she lived there in December 1951.
Mr. Doyle. I see.
Mr. Tavenner. What type of residence was 2303 Florida, Fort Wayne, Ind., an apartment house?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. It was not your address on December 12, the date of this application, was it?
Miss Jacobs. It is a little difficult for me to remember exactly. I don't remember the exact date that I resigned as secretary of the local, and then I went to La Porte. I may have gone to Fort Wayne for a short period, a week or something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. 1 asked you specifically about that before, and you stated you had not. If you were in error in that, I would like you to correct it, if you desire to correct it. W^ere you living at Fort Wayne at the time of the execution of this document on December 12, 1951 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. As I said earlier, I didn't keep a diary or anything, but during this period of time there might have elapsed a period of a week or two that I wasn't working. I don't know. I just can't remem- ber the details. I could have gone from St. Joseph to Fort Wayne, and then to La Porte.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a contract of rental for 2303 Florida, Fort Wayne, Ind.?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat arrangements did you have for rooming quarters, if this were the true address of your residence?
Miss Jacobs. This is the apartment of the Gojack family.
Mr. Ta\-enner. You gave Mr. Go jack's family's apartment as your residence. Why did you do that?
Miss Jacobs. Evidently what must have happened here — I can't recall the details, as I said — probably when I left St. Joe and left this address and then went to La Porte, leaving this as my forwarding address.
Mr. Tavenner. You weren't actually living at Mr. Gojack's apart- ment, were you, with his family?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I have lived there.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you living there at any time in December 1951?
Miss Jacobs. If that is on there, I believe so. I would have to be able to check my employment record to know, because if I had been unemployed at that time, it is very well that I was living there.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 41
Mr. Moulder. At the point where you said "If it is on there," were you referring to this document which you refused to testify about a moment ago ? You say "If that address is on there." Are you refer- ring to the document which was handed to you by counsel?
Mr. Doyle. Let the record show the witness is again carefully scrutinizing the document.
Mr. Moulder. In response to the question by counsel, you said "if it was on there," referring to the address. Did you not assume that it was so? Were you referring to the document handed to you and referred to by counsel as an application for a passport? Is that so, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. You were referring to that document, were you not, when you said "if it is on there"?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Of course, the answer speaks for itself.
Mr. DoTLE. Mr. Chairman, the document was there in front of her, and she was referring to it.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Jacobs, how long have you known the Go jack family ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. You said you had lived with the family for a period of time. When did you first live with that family ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me remind you, please, that you told us that you did live with the family for a period of time. My only question now is : When did you first live with the family ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. TA^TNNER. I suggest that she be directed to answer the ques- tion, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Miss Jacobs, you are directed to answer that ques- tion.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Moulder. May I interpose this further question : If the address on there when you referred to the document was correct, then like- wise the signature on there is probably your signature, is it not?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr, Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness what family Mr. Gojack had when she was living with his family ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that she be directed to answer that question. She said she lived with the family. She has opened the door. If she doesn't answer Mr. Doyle's question, she is clearly in contempt.
Mr. Moulder. Yes. "You are so directed. May I further suggest, in line with Mr. Scherer 's statement, that further interrogation on the application for passport is probably in line now in view of her reference a while ago to having the correct address.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that she be directed to answer Mr. Doyle's ques- tion concerning of whom Mr. Go jack's family consisted of at that time.
42 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. ScHERER. You are clearly in contempt, Miss Witness. There is no question about it in my mind, if I know anything about contempt.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine, please, the identifying affidavit of the witness.
Mr. Moulder, Mr. Tavenner, are you handing her the same docu- ment
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. - — which was called to the attention of the witness and delivered to the witness a few moments ago, and which she re- ferred to as having the correct address on Florida Avenue?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not, on examination of it, it shows that you had known Mr. Gojack for a period of 25 years? Does it so indicate ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. In fact, the witness is directed to answer all questions concerning the doc- ument which has been handed to her, the application for passport.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you known him for a period of 25 years at the time of the execution of that document in December 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether at the time of the execution of that document, as a witness, I'y you, Mr. Gojack told you the purpose of his proposed trip to Europe?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that you first became employed as a secretary in the UE in 1945 or 1946. Had you been employed prior to that time in the United States ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr, Tavenner. I am sorry I didn't ask you that before. Will you tell us when and where ?
Miss Jacobs. I was the office secretary for local 754 for about the same period of time.
Mr. Tavenner. For a period of about 2 years ?
Miss Jacobs. Two or three years, something on that order.
Mr. Tavenner. When did that begin and end ?
Miss Jacobs, I don't know, I believe that it began around 1941, January 1941, but I am not positive.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you employed ? Was that in Dayton ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed at any time prior to 1941 in the labor movement ?
Miss Jacobs, Yes. I worked for 2 or 3 months for the National Maritime Union.
Mr. Tavenner. Where ?
Miss Jacobs. In Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that ?
Miss Jacobs. I believe it was 1940, but I haven't any idea
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Gojack prior to 1940 or 1941?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have the document presented to the wit- ness marked "Jacobs Exhibit No. 2" for identification only.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 43
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered.
(The document above referred to was marked "Jacobs Exhibit No. 2" for identification.)
Mr. Moulder. You are not offering that in evidence as a part of the proceeding at this time.
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
That is all that I have to ask, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Miss Jacobs, you will be excused until 1 : 15, at which time you will be recalled as a witness.
The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 15.
("Whereupon, at 12 noon, the hearing was recessed until 1 : 15 p. m., same day.)
AFTER RECESS
(The hearing was resumed at 1 : 20 p. m., pursuant to adjournment, Representatives Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde Doyle, and Gordon H. Scherer present.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
We will recall Miss Jacobs.
TESTIMONY OF JULIA JACOBS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL,
PEANK J. DONNER— Resumed
Mr. Tavexner. Miss Jacobs, are you now a member of the Com- munist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner, I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, do you have any questions ?
Mr. Doyle. Miss Jacobs, may I just make this statement to you preliminary to several questions I wish to ask you : I want to make it clear that none of my questions are intended to go into any political belief by you of any sort. Public Law 601 challenges this committee as a subcommittee to go into subversive activities and propaganda. It is expressly so. I want to frankly state that my few questions to you will be directed to you on that basis. That is to see the extent to which you will cooperate with your own United States Congress in ferreting out, uncovering, and revealing to Congress and the people any person or group of persons whether they are in the Communist Party or not, who may be subversive. I assume, unless you answer otherwise, that you, being an American citizen are more interested in your American Government than you are in the Communist Party. I also assume in my question that you, being an employee of a labor union, already know what this committee knows : that American "unionism" and the Communist Party objectives are not the same.
I wish, also to state for your information that my questions are directed to you because we are interested in finding out the extent and through what persons, and how, the Communist Party in your experi- ence has undertaken to influence labor unions wherever you know any- thing about them.
44 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
I made that frank statement to you so that you will know m advance what I am trying to get at.
I noticed a very good memory in your testimony this morning, dat- ing away back to 1945 and 1946 and 1951 ; and you remembered right down to the exact month in 2 or 3 places. I want to compliment you on the memory you have, apparently, for dates and incidents away back. I know you will be very helpful to me in my few questions.
May I make this further statement : I am not interested in asking any question or getting you to answer any question that deliberately or otherwise is intended to hurt any organization which is patriotic and law-abiding. That is whether it is a labor union, or whatever it is. But I am interested, as I stated before, in getting your cooperation if you will give it to us on helping to uncover any person or any group of persons who are undertaking to subvert the labor union of which you are secretary or any other group to their own Communist Party objectives.
The purpose of this committee sitting here under Public Law 601 is to get that information, if we can, from you and others, looking toward amendments to or strengthening of legislation dealing with subversive activities. I say that, contrary to what some of the publicity has been down in your neighborhood to the contrary.
I am referring to this document in which the picture of Mr. Go jack appears. This is the document which you identified as having your address thereon, 2303 Florida. Do you now recall the document that I refer to, or shall I bring it to you ?
Mr. Tavenner, will you present it to the witness, please ?
(A document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. DoTLE. That is the document that you referred to this morning, and you identified the address thereon as yours, as a place where you resided, at least for a short time, with the family of Mr. Go jack. Do you remember that this morning ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that on the grounds
Mr. DoTLE. That was about two and a half hours ago. Have you forgotten what your answer was then, or can I refresh your memory in any other way ? You remember this document as one that you and your counsel inspected this morning, do you not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that.
Mr. Doyle. You decline to answer ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. DoTLE. For the purpose of identification. Miss Jacobs, will you please sign your name, Julia Jacobs, just as you ordinarily sign it?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you order and direct the witness to comply with Mr. Doyle's request.
Mr. MomLDER. The witness is so ordered as requested by Mr. Scherer.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to.
Mr. DoTLE. To refresh your memory as to what you testified about 214 or 3 hours ago, at which time you did not decline, you identified 2303 Florida, Fort Wayne, Ind., as I recall it, as a place you resided with the family of Mr. Gojack. That address on this document ap- pears right under the name "Julia Jacobs."
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 45
You have not denied, as I recall it, that that is your signature as yet. Is that your signature ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. I will ask you again, in view of the chairman's instruc- tion that you sign it — I am asking you again if you will please sign your name, just the way you ordinarily sign it. I am asking you that for identification.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to. ' Mr. Doyle. All right.
Now, who was living there at the time that you lived a short time with the Go jack family ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. Was your sister living there with you ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. ^\'T[iere was your sister living at the time ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. "Were you paying rent at this address ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Were you paying rent any place else ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. You said this morning that you went down there in connection with an election, do you remember that? I wrote it down here, and I tliink that you said you weiit down there in connection with an election. Wliat election was that, in December of 1951?
(The Avitness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Doyle, You volunteered the evidence that you went down there in connection with an election.
Miss Jacobs. The election I referred to was an election we were having at the Whirlpool plant at LaPorte, Ind.
Mr. Doyle. What was your connection with that election ?
Miss Jacov.s. 1 had just been j)laced on our organizational staff and I was to help.
Mr. Doyle. Who gave you orders in connection with that election ? AVliat were you ordered or directed to do ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, the ordinary things that people do to win the election, put out leaflets.
Mr. Doyle. Who gave you the directions or instructions what to do ? This, as I understand it, was the time you were living v/ith Mr. Gojack's family. I presume he was living there at the same time, was he not, with his family ? Is that correct ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. All right. Now, who gave you your instructions as to what you shall do in connection with the election ? Who were you working for at that time ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. At that time, what sort of work did you do in connec- tion with the election ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, part of my work was office work, and part of it was organizational work.
Mr. Doyle. Where was your oflice in connection with that election?
Miss Jacobs. The offices in LaPorte, Ind.
46 COMMUlSriST activities in the fort WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. What office was that that yon worked out of, in connec- tion with the election ?
Miss Jacobs. One of onr local offices there.
Mr. Doyle. T\^iich local ?
Miss Jacobs. I believe the number of it is 119, but I am not certain.
Mr. Doyle. Who were the executive officers of that local ?
Miss Jacobs. I don't recall.
Mr. Doyle. Did you work with anybody in connection with that election ?
Miss Jacobs. We had a regular staff there.
Mr. DoYT.E. Wlio else was on the staff with you in that election ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. DoYLE. Was there anyone besides the union officers and the em- ployees working with you in that election ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. I do not understand why it would incriminate you there.
Miss Jacobs. No, there was not.
Mr. Doyle. Who were the officers of the union working with you, if there was no one other than officers of the union ? It was a legiti- mate union, was it not ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. Well, we had a staff' of several people, as I recall. One was Elizabeth Moore, who was our international representative, and another regular staff' member was Pete Reilly and Dick Mar- hanka ; and there may have been other people who helped, but I can't recall the names.
Mr. Doyle. Was Mr. Gojack working in connection with that elec- tion ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, as an officer of the district, I am sure he did, although I don't recall what it was.
Mr. Doyle. In connection with that election, did Mr. Gojack, as long as you are sure that he was working in connection with it, did he give you any directions ?
Miss Jacobs. He may have, but I don't recall any.
Mr. Doyle. As long as you recall that he may have given you direc- tions, but you are not sure, are you sure of anyone that did give you any instructions in connection with your duties in that election ? Wlio did ? You surely know who did.
Miss Jacobs. Well, the way that we conduct our business, we have a meeting, say a staff meeting, and everyone sits around and talks, and you decide who does what.
Mr. Doyle. Did Mr. Gojack meet at any of those staff meetings with you ?
Miss Jacobs. I don't recall, although it is possible.
Mr. DoyIjE. It is possible ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. You stated that Mr. Gojack was your superior at Fort Wayne. Do you rememlier doing that this morning ?
Miss Jacobs. Ye?.
Mr. DoYT.E. Was that in connection with this election that you re- ff rred to in any way ?
Miss Jacobs. When I took the job in Fort Wayne, they had nothing to do with it, and as a matter of fact, it was a period of 2 years in be- tween that time and the Whirlpool election at LaPorte.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 47
Mr. DoTLE. In coiuiection with your work as recording secretary, and secretary of the union, did you have authority to cosign the union checlvs as one of the signers of the checks issued by the union?
Miss Jacobs. I never had signed any checks, ahhough if I am not wrong or mistaken, there may have been, or I might have been re- quired to if another officer hadn't done it. We had two signatures, and if one had failed, I believe that I was authorized to, ahhough I never had.
Mr. Doyle. Who was the other person authorized to sign the checks?
Miss Jacobs. There were two authorized to sign checks regularly, the president and the financial secretary.
Mr. Doyle. Who was jn-esident and who was financial secretary?
Miss Jacobs. There have been a number of presidents, so I can't recall.
Mr. Doyle. The best you recall. Give me a few of the names of the people wlio have been president and financial secretary according to your recollection.
Miss Jacobs. Well, our financial secretary, I think, for either most or all of the time was James Dudley; and the president, I can't say for sure. I could name several names, but I can't remember for exact periods or anything like that.
Mr. Doyle. You tell me if I am in error, please, on this: In other words, you were secretary, recording secretary, and you were paid $45 to $50 a week by the union. You testified that your income was not supplemented from any other employment. Do you remember so testifying this morning ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I would like to make a correctioiL
Mr. Doyle. Yes, if you have a correction we would like to have it.
Miss Jacobs. As recording secretary of the local, I believe that I got about $10 a month or something like that.
Mr. Doyle. Ten dollars a month ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. That is a magnificent sum.
Now, I suppose that at times you did mimeograph work in the union office, did you not, in the local office, in connection with elections?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Now, the mimeographed material that was prepared and run off the machine by you, was prepared by whom? Who gave the text of it and who did the writing of it ? Who wrote the script?
Miss Jacobs. Different people.
Mr. Doyle. Name some of them, please i
Miss fJAc<»BS. Well, there would be a great many people.
Mr. DoYT.E. Yes, of course ; 5 or 6 would it be ?
Miss Jaco)5S. Well, it is dependent upon whether it is a leaflet, or de- pending upon what it is, and sometimes a rank-and-file member runs a script.
Mr. Doyle. Tell me your best recollection, because you remember, I see now, that there were leaflets at times, and there was one-page mate- rial at times. Who wrote the. one-page materials which you ran off on the mimeograph machine, or helped run off? Who provided the text in connection with any elections that you were working with ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, like I say, it could be an organizer; it could be a member of the board ; or it could be a member who had something to say in the election : or it could be almost anybody.
48 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. Who did it to your personal knowledge, in any one case ; who did it ? Just give me the name of one person.
Miss Jacobs. Well, I suppose sometimes Brother Gojack would write leaflets, and sometimes members of the negotiating committee for Whirlpool would write leaflets, and
Mr. Doyle. Can you think of anyone besides Brother Gojack who wrote a leaflet ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, our plant chairman sometimes helped.
Mr. Doyle. Who was that ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, that varies, too, because they elect a plant chair- man every year, and sometimes you have a chairman twice a year.
Mr. Doyle. I understand that, but you remember their names, do you not? You rejnember the name of Mr. Gojack, and who else?
Miss Jacobs. If you would show me something I would have a better idea. Well, I would say every organizer that we have on the staff writes leaflets.
Mr. Doyle. ^Is long as you expressly remember that Mr. Gojack wrote some of the leaflets which you helped run off and mimeogragh in the union office, during the w^orking hours that you were being paid by the union, you were doing that on union time, were you not ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Were any of those leaflets that Mr. Gojack supplied you tlie text for, and which you ran off on union pay, on the mimeo- graph in the union office, did they emanate from tlie Communist Party, or a Communist committee? They did, did they not?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. I thought so. And you knew at the time that Mr. Go- jack was a member of the Communist Party, did you not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
]\Ir. Doyle. Is it a fact tliat the Connnunist Party held committee meetings in tlie union office where you were employed, to your knowledge ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever receive any pay or compensation from the Communist Party directly or indirectly for any services you rendered to the Communist Party, or any Communist front ?
JNIiss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Well, if you had not received such money your answer ^^'ould be no, would it not ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. May I have that letter of this morning, please, that you had for the witness ?
(Mr. Tavenner handed a document to Mr. Doyle.)
]\Ir. Doyle. Keferring, Miss Jacobs, to this letter introduced this morning, of October 8, 1951, to you, on the stationery of the March of Labor — it was signed by Nate Solomon— w^iich was presented to you by our distinguished counsel, Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember that letter? I am holding it up now to refresh your memory.
Will you please hand it to the witness, Mr. Ta vernier, so that she can refresh her memory again ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I recall being shown this letter and I recall pleading the fifth amendment on it.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 49
Mr. Doyle. What was your position of employment with the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America, Local 931, on the date you received this letter, shortly after October 8, 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same ground.
Mr. Doyle. Were you employed by the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America on or about October 8, 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Well, this morning when our counsel asked you where each of the places were that you were employed, you gave him all of the places, did you not, that you recalled? Did you neglect or refuse to include the fact of your employment with the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America on or about the date of this letter?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Were you at any time employed by the United Electri- cal Radio and Machine Workers of America, Local 931 ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, I was.
Mr. Doyle. When ?
Miss Jacobs. I am presently employed by them.
Mr. Doyle. Were you employed back in October of 1951?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. Were you employed by the same group ?
Miss Jacobs. If it is in reference to the letter, I will reply "No" ; if that question is not in reference to the letter, I will rej^ly "Yes."
Mr. Doyle. Were you then employed on October 8, 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes ; I say that my answer is "Yes," if it is not in refer- ence to the letter.
Mr. Doyle. The reason I asked you about October 8, 1951, is because that is the date of this letter. I want to be perfectly frank with you. That is the date given in this letter and it is the basis of my question. Were you employed by the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America on or about October 8, 1951 ?
Miss Jacobs. I believe I have given my answer on that.
Mr. Doyle. I think that you have made it clear that you were em- ployed on that date by that concern.
Now, in what capacity were you employed by the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America on or about October 8, 1951 ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I believe I answered that question before.
Mr. Doyle. I do not mean to take up your time to ask you the same question twice, but I do not think that I understood your answer clearly.
Miss Jacobs. I think that I told you earlier that I was employed by the local from about July or August of 1950 until about the end of the year of 1951, and during that time when I was first hired I was the office secretary, and later I was both the office secretary and recording secretary.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any personal knowledge of any subversive activities by any person or any group of persons in any of the labor unions by whom you have been employed according to your own testi- mony ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. Would you please explain what you mean by sub- versive ?
50 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. Yes ; any person or group of persons that has as part of its program or propaganda the forceful overthrow or teaching of forceful overthrow by force and violence of our form of govern- ment
Miss Jacobs. No ; I do not.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I have not finished my question — When it suits their convenience. Have you any knowledge on your part of any such propaganda activities ?
Miss Jacobs. No ; I do not.
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meeting?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question under the terms of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever heard that subject discussed at any Com- munist Party meeting, or any Communist cell meeting?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. DoYi.E, Did you ever discuss it with any other citizen of the United States; that subject?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Well, if you had not discussed it with some other per- son, you would say no, would you not ? Plow could it incriminate you if your answer was ho if it was a truthful answer ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Scherer, of Ohio.
Mr. Scherer. Miss Witness, while you were in Dayton did you know Charles H. Markham ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer whether she knew Charles H. Markham, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs the witness to answer the question propounded by Mr. Scherer.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. How long have you known David Mates ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. ^ Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- tion as to how lone: she knew David Mates.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair so directs the witness to answer the ques- tion.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. Do you know where he is today ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that ques- tion.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed.
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Scherer. Is it not a fact that you dined with him in St. Louis last week?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. You know that he is avoiding a subpena by this com- mittee, do you not?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Scherer. I have just 1 or 2 observations to make, Mr. Chair- man, before we dismiss this witness.
Recalling the Dayton hearings, a witness by the name of Arthur Paul Strunk testified at length. Strunk was a" former member of the
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 51
Communist Party, and during the time that he was a member of the Communist Party he was an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Now this morning, the counsel for the committee read from Mr. Strunk's testimony. He read that part of Mr. Strunk's testimony which referred to you and your activities in the Communist Party, and to your other activities within the union. You did not deny that testimony, and in fact you refused to answer all questions with reference to Mr. Strunk, basing your refusal on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Strunk is referred to by you Communists as an informer.
I have before me an article appearing in the April 10 issue of the Nation. This article is entitled "The Informer" and it is written by your counsel, Mr. Frank J. Donner. In this article — I might say it is one of the worst distortions that I have ever seen, full of half-truths and misrepresentations, and I am going to proceed to prove that in a few minutes. In that article there is a vicious attack upon those individuals which the author refers to as informers, such individuals as Mr. Strunk.
I am wondering, after he counseled you with reference to your tes- timony today, whether or not he will write within a short time another similar article attacking Mr. Strunk as witnesses similar to Mr. Strunk were attacked in this article.
I particularly refer to the attack that is made upon Leonard Pat- terson, who testified against another client of Mr. Donner's before this committee some time ago. That client was the Rev. Jack McMichael. The article to which I referred was published after the testimony of Reverend McMichael, before the committee.
As I said, Leonard Patterson was one of the witnesses who testified with reference to his client, and he proceeds in this article to attempt to discredit Leonard Patterson, whom he refers to as one of these in- formers. It is under the heading of "How the Clergy Case was Fab- ricated." Of course, he infers that it was fabricated with the help of this committee.
I read from the article :
Another witness was Leonard Patterson, who identified the Rev. Jack Mc- Michael as having been a member of the New Yorli District of the Young Communist League in 1934 and 1935, although in fact, McMichael was enrolled at that time as a freshman at the University in Georgia, Emery University.
That paragraph is written, I suppose, in an effort to further dis- credit Patterson, and to prove that he lied.
Now, the testimony — and I have the McMichael testimony — shows very clearly that Reverend McMichael did not deny that he was in New York in the year of 19.34 and 1935, and this article does not point out at the conclusion of Reverend McMichael's testimony that it was referred by this committee, by unanimous vote to the Department of Justice for possible perjury prosecution.
Now, you get some idea of what I mean by tlie distortions that appear in such articles as this.
I might make this further observation: As I say, the particular paragrapli that I read appears under the heading of "How the Clergy Case was Fabricated," and I make this further observation. It was Leonard Patterson who testified that during the time he was active in the Communist Party in New York that two young ministers were sent or came from Union Theological Seminary in New York down
52 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
to Baltimore and received assignments for work in the Communist Party. He did not remember at that time the names of those two indi- viduals, but subsequent investigation by the staff of this committee determined who those two individuals were. Those two individuals were subpenaed before this committee.
One minister admitted that the testimony of Patterson was true; and the other one, not knowing that the other minister liad admitted it in executive session, came before this committee and perjured himself. The other minister's testimony was again unanimously referred by this committee to the Department of Justice for perjury prosecution, and the perjury in that case was obvious. There was additional testimony to substantiate the testimony of the first minister.
I point out in this attack on Patterson the article does not mention anything about Patterson's testimony in the Novak case, or the Hutch- inson case, and the results of those cases.
That is all I have to say.
Mr. Moulder. Miss Jacobs, I wish to make one very brief comment. Some accusation has been made and I have read in some newspaper articles where these hearings have been referred to as an effort on the part of the Committee on Un-American Activities to break or bust unions.
In defense of all of the members of the committee, including myself, I wish to say that there certainly is no desire on our part to interfere with any union functions or to bust or to break or destroy any labor union.
Mr. ScHERER. Except to help them relieve themselves of Communist domination.
Miss Jacobs. I am afraid it is having that effect in our election.
Mr. Moulder. My record as well as other members of the committee has been in support of organized labor throughout our careers in Con- gress. No one believes stronger in organized labor than I do, although I do not represent what you would call a labor-dominated congres- sional district. But it is our intention and purpose to point out to the public, as well as union members. Communist domination or Com- munist activities in such unions wherever it may exist.
I believe that the public as well as the labor members should be informed of that, because everyone knows that communism will even- tually destroy organized labor if it gains control of organized labor.
Therefore, I wish to ask you just one or two questions.
Assuming that the so-called Communist Party, or the Communist movement is an international conspiracy to dominate the world, as well as our own Government, and particularly their activities or efforts within such labor organizations as you have been employed by, assum- ing that to be a fact what is your opinion ? Do you believe in, or do you approve of known Communists dominating the labor union by which you are employed ?
Let us take the UE for an example. You are employed by the UE, I understand ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Is it your opinion, and I am asking you for your opinion, do you approve of the election of Communist officials to dominate and control the affairs and functions of that labor organiza- tion?
COlVrMUNlST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 53
Miss Jacobs. I can't speak for any other union. I can speak for our own. And that is I believe that our union should be run by the rank and file membership.
Mr. jMoulder. Do you approve of the election of Communist officers to control the afi'airs and functions of the union ?
(Witness conferred with covmsel.)
Miss Jacobs. No, I believe like I say ; I think unions should be run by the rank-and-file membership.
Mr. Moulder. If you know of any Communist who has been elected or in control of the UE, or that is actively employed by and in charge of the affairs and functions of the UE, why do you then refuse to inform this committee of that fact, if it is a fact ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Moulder. Counsel has a question to ask you.
Mr. Taat^nner. The question as presented to you was whether or not you approve of the election to offices in your organization of per- sons who are members of the Communist Party for the purpose of controlling the affairs of your union.
Now, may I limit that question this way by asking you whether or not you advocate the election of anyone to an office in your union who is a member of the Communist Party ?
(Witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. Would you please repeat that question.
Mr. Ta\-exner. Read the question.
(Question read by the reporter as above recorded. )
Miss Jacobs. I don't believe so.
Mr. Tavexner. Are there any officers in your union, known to you to be members of the Communist Party ?
Miss Jacobs. Well, I think our union, like all unions which use the Taft-Hartley Board, has signed the non-Communist affidavits.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please ? That is not an answer to it.
Miss Jacobs. Please repeat it.
Mr. Tavenner. Please read the question.
(Question read by the reporter as above recorded.)
(Witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. 1 have noticed that one or two of the communica- tions which were presented to you in the course of your testimony were addressed to you as "Sister Julia." I notice, also, that you referred to Mr. Go jack as Brother Go jack. Are those the terms of salutation that are customarily used in union work, in union activity ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You never referred to them as Comrade Julia, or Comrade Go jack ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You never do that, do you ?
Miss Jacobs. No, the term we used is "Brother" and "Sister."
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Moulder. I have just one question in continuation of what Mr. Tavenner said. You said that you would not vote for a candidate for an official position in your union if he was known to be a Com-
54 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
munist to you. I understand you said "I don't believe so" ; is that cor- rect ?
Miss Jacobs. No, I don't think that was the question as I recalL
Mr. Moulder. Do you, or have you voted for anyone who was a member of the Communist Party, as a candidate for an official posi- tion in your union ?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
(Representative Francis E. AValter entered the room.)
Mr. Moulder. Now, I do not want to interrogate you on this sub- ject, in an attempt to persuade you to divulge any communications or conferences that you have had with your counsel, as a privileged communication ; but now as I understand, your attorney, Mr. Donner, resides in New York?
Mr. Donner. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. I am asking the witness.
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Do you reside in Fort Wayne?
Miss Jacobs. I live in St. Joseph, Mich.
Mr. Moulder. Approximately how far is St. Joseph, Mich., from New York?
Miss Jacobs. I don't really know ; perhaps 900 to 1,000 miles.
Mr. Moulder. In St. Joseph, Mich., they have many attorneys, do they not, who are engaged in the practice of law there ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. But you have the right, of course, and the privilege, to select and employ any attorney you wish to appear here with you in proceedings before this committee.
May I ask you where you first met Mr. Donner ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Miss Jacobs. I met him here in Washington.
Mr. Moulder. For the first time ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. This week ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. After you were subpenaed to appear before this com- mittee, did you consult or confer with anyone in St. Joseph as to what action you should take with reference to your appearance here as a witness ?
MisSflAcoBS. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Not one person ?
Miss Jacobs. No, I didn't consult with anybody.
Mr. Moulder. Nor discuss ?
Miss Jacobs. I had conversation with members here and there, but I did not consult with anyone until I saw him.
Mr. Moulder. You did not consult with anyone on the subject of your appearance here before the committee ?
Miss Jacobs. No.
Mr. Moulder. Then how, and why, did you happen then to employ Mr. Donner, if you met him for the first time this week — If you had not consulted or conferred with someone there in St. Joseph?
Miss Jacobs. Well, I did not consult with anyone, but in discussing it with the union, it was handling the thing, and they hired Mr. Donner to handle my case, and Mr. Gojack's case, and Mr. Cover's case as well.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE FORT WAY2vE, IND., AREA 55
Mr. Moulder. Are you acquainted with Mr. (Dean) Robb, an at- torney in Detroit ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes!
Mr. Moulder. Did he represent you before today, before Mr. Donner was contacted ?
Miss Jacobs. What do you mean "did he represent me" ?
Mr. Moulder. Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether he was first employed to represent you ?
( The witness conferred with counsel. )
Miss Jacobs. Well, originally I had called Mr. Robb to see if he could handle the case and we had arranged he would meet me in Wash- ington to discuss what my rights would be, and it turned out that Mr. Donner
Mr. Moulder. Who represents the local union in St. Joseph — what attorney there represents them ?
Miss Jacobs. We don't have any attorney. I mean we hire an attor- ney for this, or an attorney for that case, and we don't have any reg- ular attorney.
Mr. Moulder. None who represents the union ?
Miss Jacobs. Mr. Robb has taken one or two cases for us on unem- ployment compensation, and that type of thing.
Mr. Moulder. All right. That is all.
Are there any further questions?
Mr. Doyle. I wish to ask one further question.
Miss Jacobs, a few minutes ago I asked you whether or not you had knowledge of any subversive activities on the part of any person or group of persons in any of the unions that you have been employed by. Do you remember that question ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. And then in answer to your question, I stated what I meant by subversive, and your answer was ""No." Do you remem- ber that?
Miss Jacobs. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Now, you also know, do you not, that for more than a year various Government boards and Government committees such as this committee which you are appearing before now, and the sub- committee of the main committee, publicly stated time and time that the Connnunist Party of America was subversive, and you have known for a year or so, have you not, that the Communist Party has been held to be subversive. That is true, is it not? You have known that?
Miss Jacobs, I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. You decline to answer it ?
Miss Jacobs. Yes, on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. You have also known, have you not, because of your leading of magazines and literature that in various parts of this coun- try— the United States Federal courts after trial before juries — there have been various cases held that the evidence showed substantially that the Communist Party was subversive and was advocating the forceful and violent overthrow of our Government. You have read such publicity, have you not, in the newspapers and magazines?
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. You have read that in the Peoples World and the Daily Worker, have you not ?
56 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Miss Jacobs. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Thcat is all.
Mr. Moulder. Are there any more questions ?
Mr. Scherer, do you have any questions?
Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions.
Mr. Moulder. You are excused as a witness.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lawrence Cover, will you come forward please, sir?
Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE COVER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, FRANK J. DONNER
Mr. Cover. I do.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name ?
Mr. Cover. Lawrence Cover.
Mr. Ta\t^nner. It is noted that you are accompanied by the same counsel who accompanied the previous witness.
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Cover?
Mr. Cover. I was born in Fulton County, Ind.
Mr. TA^^NNER. What date ?
Mr. Cover. July 18, 1902.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you tell the committee, please, briefly, what your formal educational training has been ?
Mr. Cover. Common grade school.
Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ?
Mr. Co\^R. I am now employed by the Square-D Co. at Pierre, Ind.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you reside at that same place ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir; I reside in Denver, Ind., which is a small sub- urb of Pierre.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your rec- ord of employment has been since 194:5 ?
Mr. Cover. I don't understand your question, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How have you been employed, and in what various ways have you been employed since 1945 ?
Mr. Cover. Well, sir, I have been an employee of the company for thirty-foiu- and a half 3^ears, and my employment has been the same all through the years.
Mr. Tavenner. That makes it very easy to answer. In what capaci- ties have you been employed ?
Mr. Cover. As a porcelain pressman.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold any official position in your union?
Mr. Cover. Yes. sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What is it ?
Mr. Cover. I am secretary of the local union, and also chief steward in the plant.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the number of the union ?
Mr. Cover. Local 905.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that of the UE ?
' COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 57
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been secretary ?
Mr. Cover. Ever since the UE was organized in the plant, in 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. How long- have you been steward ?
Mr. Cover. I would say approximately half of that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Does that mean that you are employed by the union rather than being employed by the Square-D plant ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir ; I am employed by the Square-D Co.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not sure you understood my question. During the period that you held these positions, have you been employed in the plant as a worker, or have you devoted your time to work of your local?
Mr. Cover. Sir, I get the magnificent sum of $15 a month for serving as secretary of my local, and working in the plant as chief steward the company pays my salary. I am paid on an hourly rate, the same as any other worker.
Mr. Tavenner. But you are actually an employee of your union and your salary is being paid by your company ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir ; I disagree with you. I am an employee of the Square-D Co., serving in the capacity of an elected chief steward.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat are your duties as a chief steward ?
Mr. Cover. To handle the grievances of the people in the plant with the various foremen, and with plant manager.
Mr. Tavenner. Other than your work as secretary, is that your full employment at the plant ?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Then, as a matter of fact you are performing the normal functions and duties of an officer, although they are not termed officers of your union, with your pay coming from the company ?
Mr. Cover. You may call it however you wish, but that is the setup that we have had for a good many years.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with the magazine known as March of Labor ?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with any of its owners ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time induce your local to subscribe to it?
Mr. Cover. We read it. Is there anything illegal about it ?
Mr. Tavenner. W}\o was tlie first person that conferred with you about the use of the March of Labor in your union ?
Mr. Cover. I wouldn't know. We got a sample copy, I think.
Mr. Tavenner. Maybe I can refresh your recollection about that, Mr. Cover. I have before me the issue of March of Labor for June of 1951, and printed in it is a letter from Lawrence Cover, recording secretary, U E Local 905, in which it was said —
was given a copy of your MOL by John Gojack, of UE, district 9. I think it is fine and it covers news we really need, and my local voted to subscribe to it for the next year. If you could send me some extra copies, will try and set you some subscriptions.
Does that refresh your recollection ?
Mr. CovEit. It could be, yes, sir; and we did subscribe to 16 copies, which are passed out to our officer-s and stewards. Mr. Tavenner. Was it paid for by the funds from the union ?
58 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir. Voted by the local.
Mr. Tavennt R. Did Mr. Goiack explain to you why he desired that this magazine be disseminated through your group ?
Mr. Cover. Keally, I don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Gojack advise you that the March of Labor was a publication which was designed to bring to its readers the Com- munist Party line, in connection with labor ?
]\Ir. Co\^K. No, sir ; absolutely not.
Mr. Ta-s^nner. Had you ever known that ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir ; except in what I heard you gentlemen talk about up here.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, as secretary of your local 905, I s ippose it would be correct to say that you were a member of the staff of the local?
Mr. Cover. Oh, surely, I am a member of the executive bo ird.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time have you been ;i member of the executive board ?
Mr. Cover. Ever since the local was organized in March of 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. How many people compose the membership nor- mally?
Mr. Cover. Of the executive board ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Cover. Well, it would take a little time to count up, but I would say about 16 or 17.
Mr. Tavenner. How frequently does it meet ?
Mr. Cover. Once a month, unless special occasions come up.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall your service in 1946 on that board, on the executive board ?
Mr. Cover. I don't know what you are referring to. You will have to make the question clearer.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the exact title of the executive board of which you say you were a member ?
Mr. Cover. The executive board,
Mr. Tavenner. Of what ?
Mr. Cover. Of local 905.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, is there another executive board on a higher level, such as your district 9 ?
Mr. Colter. Oh, surely, there is the district executive board.
Mr. Tavenner. How many compose membership to that board?
Mr. Cover. I would say 7 or 8.
Mr. Tavenner. Hoav frequently do they meet, do you know ?
Mr. Cover. Once every 3 months.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of it ?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir. '
Mr. Ta^tenner. And have you been a member since back in, I believe you said 1938?
Mr. CoA^R. Since 1938 for the local, and 1938 for the district.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, where did that executive board of district 9 meet during the year 1946 ?
Mr. Cover. I don't recall, sir; if you can refresh my memory?
]\Ir. Ta\'enner. Can you tell me where you were accustomed to meet ?
Mr, Cover. We met in various cities, and we met wherever it is decided that we will have the next district executive board meeting, or the next district convention, which might be any place within the area of Indiana or Michigan.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 59
Mr. Tavenner. You say your conventions would meet, and the board would meet first in one city and then in another ?
Mr. Co\rER. That is right, wherever we decided to have the next dis- trict convention, and usually it is left up to a vote of the convention where they will hold the next one.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the composition of the executive board of district 9 ? What type of officers make up that board ?
Mr. Cover. The president and vice president, and the financial sec- retary, and treasurer and recording secretary, and trustees, and execu- tive board members at large.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether any of the members of that board were members of the Communist Party to your knowledge ?
Mr. Cover. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you present at any time at one of its board meetings when the meeting was attended by a functionary or func- tionaries of the Communist Party i
Mr. Cover. I was not ; at least if they were, they never propositioned me, I can state that.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall anything of an unusual character about any of the meetings of that executive board which were held that would cause you to suspect Connnunist Party activities in the group!
Mr. Cover. I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. Was any umisual method of security ever adopted for its meetings that you know of ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir, our meetings were devoted to discussing union- ism and the best way to handle the district for union purposes.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall occasions on which the executive board took action for the appropriation or payment of money to Com- munist front organizations, or for Communist purposes?
Ml'. Cover. I don't know how you mean. 1 don't know all of the Communist front organizations, and we liave appropriated money for many causes.
Mr. Tavenner. Name some of them.
Mr. Cover. You name them, you're the one that is asking me the questions.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you the question now. What organi- zations did you contribute money to ?
Mr. Cover. I told you I didn't recall. I don't recall the names of the organizations we might have appropriated money to.
Mr. Tavenner. You do not recall the names of any ?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the last contribution that your organi- zation made outside of your union ?
Mr. Cover. We have appro})riated money for various strikes and things like that, to help out various locals, and it is customary.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the last appropriation that was made?
Mr. Cover. I told you I didn't remember. I don't carry a walking briefcase around with me, or an encyclopedic mind, and I don't have all of this in my memory.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether money was contributed to C!arl Marzani ?
Mr. Cover. I don't think so, but I don't recall it.
60 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. National Council of American- Soviet Friendship?
Mr. Cover. That I know there was never any money contributed to.
Mr. Tavenner. The National Negro Labor Council?
Mr. Cover. I don't recall that for sure,
Mr. Tavenner. American Peace Crusade ?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Defense of the Rosenbergs ?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. Tavenner. The defense of Carl Christofel?
Mr. Cover. Not that I know of, I don't recall. ' Mr. Tavenner. The defense of the 12 Connnunists on trial in New York City?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there a fund entitled "UE Defense Fund"?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the nature of that fund ?
Mr. Cover. It is limited to aid of the people that are out on strike, in the various areas.
Mr. Tavennp:r. It is limited to that purpose?
Mr. Cover. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Who is in charge of the administration of that fund in your union ?
Mr. Cover. The officers and they report to the trustees.
Mr. Tavenner. What particular officers are chargeable with that duty ?
Mr. Cover. The three top officers.
Mr. Tavenner. And they are who ?
Mr. Cover. The Fort Wayne officers.
Mr. Travenner. What are their names ?
Mr. Cover. I think that you have them.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please ?
Mr. Cover. The president and vice president, and financial secre- tary-treasurer.
Mr. Tavenner. What are their names ?
Mr. Cover. Mr. Go jack, Mr. (Charles) Kelly, and at the present time his name is Jack Anderson who is the secretary-treasurer.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any personal knowledge of how the funds of the UE defense fund are expended ?
Mr. Co\T3R. And auditing books, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You have engaged in an audit of the books yourself ?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir; expended toward aid for strikers.
Mr. Tavenner. For no other purpose ?
Mr. Cover. None that I know of.
Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time you took part in an audit of the books ?
Mr. Cover. It has been over a year ago. I had a heart attack last September and I didn't take part in the last audit or the last official — in fact, I haven't attended anything for practically a year.
Mr. Tavenner. Who has custody of the records of the Defense Fund?
Mr. Cover. The financial secretary-treasurer.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Dave Mates ?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 61
Mr. Tavenner. I believe he was district agent, business agent, for district 9 at one time?
Mr. Co^^K. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. He was not ?
Mr. Co\T>R. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he hold any official position in district 9?
Mr. Cover. He has not.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now ?
Mr. Cover. I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time you saw him?
Mr. Cover. Sir, I would say somewhere around a year ago, quite some time ago. I don't know exactly. I wall take that back and 1 would like to correct that.
Mr. Tavenner. You were mistaken about his official position?
Mr. Cover. No; I would like to correct when I saw him last. I think it was along early last December.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you see him?
Mr. Cover. Fort Wayne, at an executive meeting and staff meeting.
Mr. ScHERER. Whai was the date?
Mr. Cover. Early part of December, I don't recall exactly.
Mr. Tavenner. Try to refresh your recollection as nearly as you can as to the approximate date in December that the meeting was held.
Mr. Cover. Really, I just got out of a sickbed. I don't know. I think around the 17th or 19th.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he assigned any particular work or function at that executive board meeting?
Mr. Cover. Not that I know of.
Mr. Tavenner. That took place in Fort Wayne?
Mr. Cover. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you talk with him on this occasion?
Mr. Cover. Just barely spoke to him and passed the time of day was all.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he appear normal to you as far as health was concerned ?
Mr. Co\ter. As far as I know, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an conversation with him as to what his plans were for the period immediately following that date, the 17th or 19th?
Mr. Cover. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he make any statement to you about going to the hospital?
Mr. Cover. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he make any statement to you that he had been subpenaed along about that time for his ap})earance before this connnittee ?
Mr. Cover. He did not. As I said, w^e barely spoke and passed the time.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if I can refresh your recollection as to the position that Dave Mates once held in district No. 9. I have in front of me a letterhead of July 7, 1948, showing that he was business agent at that time. Will you examine it and see if that does not re- fresh your recollection and if so, I would like to give you an oppor- tunity to correct your testimony.
62 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Co\t:r. It doesn't say a thing about Dave Mates.
Mr. Ta\'enner. The list in the margin.
Mr. Cover. Yes, since you mention it, I do recall that Dave Mates served as business agent for a very short period of time. The district decided to put on two business agents and Gojack was serving as a business agent and the district decided to add another and we* soon found we were financially unable to carry two business agents and Mates went back to the International staff.
Does that answer your question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
I hand you a photograph and I will ask you to examine it, please, and state whether or not you have ever seen the individual whose like- ness is recorded there.
Mr. Cover. I may have, but I sure don't know him.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you if you know his name.
Mr. Cover. I don't recall ever seeing him. I saw a lot of people in my time, but don't recall seeing him. Naturally, being as active as I have been in the last 20 years, I can't recognize everybody.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the name of* the person who was chairman of the Communist Party for the State of Indiana in 1946?
Mr. Cover. I do not, I was never interested in it.
Mr. Tavenner. The photograph that I handed you is the photo- graph of Elmer Johnson, who was chairman of the Communist Party that year, 1946.
Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask of this witness now.
Mr. Cover. Could I get in and make just one statement?
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Just a minute.
I would like to have the fact explained to the witness that he is still under subpena, subject to call at some future time if the committee desires to call him, and of course he will be given abundant notice.
Mr. Cover. Could I make a statement now, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Moulder. "Wliat is the subject of your statement ?
Mr. Cover. I would like to state that I resent very much being called before this committee because I feel like I was called before this com- mittee because of my activities as a citizen of the United States, of wiring and sending wires and writing my Congressman and Con- gressman Walter. I feel that as a citizen of the United States, I have a right to contact my Congressman or any other Congressman at any time on any subject, and point out my views and I resent it very much that I was called before this committee.
Mr. Moulder. You certainly do have a right to contact your Con- gressman to exercise your rights as an American citizen, as you have stated. However, there is no knowledge on my part or I am sure on the part of any other members of the committee that you were sub- penaed because of your sending telegrams. You were subpenaed, I assume, for the purpose of the committee securing any information you may have concerning your knowledge, if any, of Communist ac- tivities, subversive activities which we wish to expose wherever it mav exist.
Mr, Tavenner hasn't asked you this question — ^I am sure you would wish to voluntarily so state vourself — whether or not you were ever a member of the Communist Party, now or at any time in the past.
Mr. Cover. I would like to make a statement on that.
COMMIINI^^T ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 63
Mr. MonLDEii. All right.
Mr. Cover. I don't think it is any of the connnittee's business, but I am not and have not and never will be.
Mr. ]\IouLDER. You do not consider it the committee's business as to whether you are or not ?
Mr. Cover. I don't think it is your business whether I am a Demo- crat or what.
Mr. Moulder. Do you consider it our business whether you are a Communist ?
Mr. Cover. I don't think it is under the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Moulder. In view of that statement, are you a Communist?
Mr. Cover. No, I said ''No," definitely "No."
Mr. Moulder. But if you were you would consider it none of our business ?
Mr. Cover. That is right.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have any questions ?
Mr. Scherer. I have a telegram here that was not signed by — your name is what?
Mr. Cover. Lawrence Cover. C-o-v-e-r.
Mr. Scherer. He may have some knowledge of it. You are an officer of what local ?
Mr. Cover. Local 905.
Mr. Scherer, Did you attend a meeting of the officers and board members of the joint UE council shortly before February 15?
Mr. Co%t:r. Repeat your question. I don't know just what you mean. Which meeting do you mean ?
Mr. Scherer. I am referring to a telegram that I received signed by the officers and board members attending the joint UE council meeting evidently on or before February 15, the date of the telegram is February 15.
Mr. Cover. February 15, from New York?
Mr. Scherer. The telegram evidently comes from Fort Wayne.
Mr. Cover. No, I did not attend that meeting.
Mr. Scherer. Do you know who those men would be ?
Mr. Cover. No, I do not.
Mr. Scherer. Do you have any idea who they would be?
Mr. Cover. I do not.
Mr. Scherer. You are from Fort Wayne ?
Mr. Cover. No, I am from Peru, which is 60 miles from Fort Wayne.
Mr. Scherer. Do you have anv knowledge who the officers are of locals 902, 903, 910, 9i6, 919, 933 ? "
Mr. Cover. I would probably know them if I met them, but offhand I don't know them.
Mr. Scherer. You cannot tell me the names of any of them ?
Mr. Cover. I couldn't tell you the names.
Mr. Scherer. What is at 1835 South Calhoun S.treet, Fort Wayne?
Mr. Cover. The district office.
Mr. Scherer. Have you ever been there ?
Mr. Co^^R. Oh, yes, many times.
Mr. Scherer. That is the district office of UE ?
Mr. Cover. That is right, district 9 office.
Mr. Scherer. Is that where the officers and board members of the joint T"E council would meet?
64 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Cover. That is right.
Mr. ScHERER. Are you a member of the joint council of the UE ?
Mr. Cover. Not what you would call the joint council. I am a mem- ber of the district council.
Mr. ScHERER. What is the joint council ''i
Mr. Cover. I assume it is a joint council of the locals in Fort Wayne alone. I am not sure of that, but I would assume that is what it is.
Mr. Moulder. May I pursue that a moment ?
Assume the same line of questioning w^e were discussing a moment ago about your position that it was no business of this conunittee as to whether or not you were a Communist or a member of the Communist Party.
The committee, of course, as stated by Mr. Doyle, is dedicated to expose communistic activities. In your official capacity as steward of your union, and with the company where you are now employed, would you employ or approve the employment of a known Communist in your plant?
Mr. Cover. Would have nothing whatever to do with it.
Mr. Moulder. I am asking you whether or not you would approve of it.
Mr. Cover. I am not sure that I would, but I am telling you I would have nothing to do with the employment. Our company employs who they wish.
Mr. Moulder. If there was an effort according to testimony pro- duced before this committee on the part of the Communist Party organization in this country to infiltrate strategic defense plants with Communist Party members and active Communists, do you approve or disapprove of that ?
Mr. Cover. Kepeat your question. I don't want to answer it in- correctly.
Mr. Moulder. There has been testimony before this committee indi- cating and proving in some cases the efforts on the j^art of the Com- munist Party organization in this country to infiltrate defense plants and some unions with active Communist workers. I say do you ap- prove or disapprove of that ?
Mr. Cover. In making, I started to say I would like to make my point clear. When I stated I did not think it was any of the com- mittee's business I would like to make it clear that I think we have governmental agencies that are well prepared and capable of taking care of any subversives we might have in this country.
Mr. Moulder. We are trying to assist those Government agencies in every way we can.
Mr. Cover. I don't think this committee has the right to inquire into a man's political ambitions, according to the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Moulder. Do you consider the Communist Party a political organization ?
Mr. Cover. So far, the Supreme Court has never ruled it otherwise. When they do I will abide by the Supreme Court.
Mr. Moulder. What is your opinion of the Communist philosophy ?
Mr, Cover. I don't approve of it.
Mr. Moulder. Do you not feel in your capacity as a leader of the union you represent that you would encourage Communist partici- pation in the affairs of your union ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 65
Mr. Cover. Could I answer you this way, sir? Our organization lias been organized for 18 years and I have been one of the leaders in the union. We have never had a strike in our plant but still we have one of the best records of any local within the district and I think that our record stands on itself .
I think we would disapprove of anybody coming in telling us how to run our local. We run our own local.
Mr. Moulder. If there was a candidate for an official position in your local, a known Communist or known to you to be a Communist, would you vote for him or oppose him ?
Mr. Cover. I would have to abide by the wishes of the membership. The membership votes by a secret ballot and if they voted him in I would have to live with it.
Mr, Moulder. How would you vote ?
Mr. Cover. I would probably vote against him. Does that suit you ?
Mr. Doyle. Did you give us the benefit of knowing where you worked these 33 years ?
Mr. Co^^r. Square D Co.
Mr, Doyle. What do they manufacture ?
Mr. Cover. Electrical products.
Mr. Doyle. I assume from your appropriate statement that you have been and are quite a student of matters affecting unions, trade unions and organizations so far as legislation is concerned,
Mr. Cover. I try to confine myself to the unions and legislation.
Mr. Doyle. I conclude that from your voluntary statement. I want to compliment you on your studies.
Are you familiar with Public Law 601 ?
Mr. Cover. No. I have written down here on my envelope to ask my Congressman for a copy of that as soon as I can get to see him. • Mr. 1>>0YLE. You be sure and do that because I am under the im- pression that when you read Public Law 601, you will realize then that tliis committee has an official job to do which is assigned it by your Congress. We are not here just as a voluntary group, as you realize. Congress back in the 79th session in 1946 enacted Public Law 601, whi^'h charged the Committee on L'n-American Activities, of which we three men are a subcommittee, with investigating sub- versive activities and propaganda wherever it was.
I want to make it clear to you that we are here discharging an official assignment.
Mr. Cover. I realize that, but I still think that the committee inter- feres in union affairs. Maybe it is unfortunate and at the wrong time, but I still think you interfere with union affairs.
Mr. DoYi.E. May I state this, that so far as I know, we in the com- mittee have had no notice and no knowledge of any oncoming elec- tions back in your area at the time the meeting was set. I was present, happened to l)e, when the date was set for the hearing to have occurred recently, but this hearing before your union or down in your area was a matter that we had planned last year, many months ago. Be- cause of workloads we didn't get to it. So at the first meeting of our group a couple of weeks ago we included the trip to your area as one of the places where we should promptly go to clean up what was hanging over from last j'ear.
You do notice that because among other things we did not want to Vje involved in a legitimate charge of trying to hurt any election
66 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
situation, we did not go tiiere and of course we have only called 2 or 3 of you folks here.
But may I state to you frankly that we intend to go to any area, including yours, where we believe there is reason to go. We believe there is reason to go to your area when the time comes. There are certain people there that we want to question, our investigators will have completed more of the job and we believe we will get more facts and more truth as a result of further investigation.
Xow I am sure that you heard my statement to Miss Jacobs.
Mr. Cover. That is right.
Mr. DoYT.E. I will not repeat it to you. I should like to add before I ask you 2 or 3 questions, so you will understand my attitude as a member of this committee, in private life I am a lawyer and have always taken the position that any patriotic American citizen has a right to think what he pleases, do what he pleases, and be what he pleases provided he does it within the four cornervS of the Con- stitution.
He has to do it in my book in accordance with law — that is, in my book. I want to supplement what Mr. Moulder said. I as a mem- ber of this committee serving my ninth year in the House here have always been favored with the endorsement of the CIO and the A. F. of L. Yet I have never been a member of a labor union, never have I been an attorney for a labor union. But may I make this clear : That we as a committee have had plenty of evidence over the Nation that the Communist Party in this country has had and does now have a continuous infiltration program to try to take control of the policies and functions of certain labor unions and our information is that the Communist Party has had that policy toward the union of which you are a member.
Mr. Cover. You mean my local union ?
Mr. Doyle. Well, in your area, the UE, the International UE. We wouldn't be having you and the other people here to help us in this investigation if we didn't have pretty definite information about cer- tain levels in UE. But we would not be having this investigation if we did not have pretty clear evidence of some sort of subversive activ- ity in your area.
Now, may I ask you just two or three questions, please, Mr. Cover. Again it is rather refreshing to have a person who has been sub- penaed, even though you find it unpleasant and inconvenient, to come and volunteer that you are not a Communist and never have l3een and never would be.
It is very refreshing to me as a Member of the Congress to hear that sort of voluntary testimony because I have seen so many people in these years who plead the amendment because they have been told to when they don't mean a s])eck of the words they state because they are not sincere in it many, many times. It is a flimsy curtain behind which they are hiding in many, many cases.
But may I ask you this: You have been steward of the company union and you have been secretary of your union for 10 or 15 years?
Mr. Cover. I would say 18 years.
Mr. Doyle. At any time during that 18 years have you taken notice of youi" own personal observation, knowledge of any effort on the part
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 67
of any Communist Party leader or leaders to get into your union membei'ship?
Mr. Cover. No, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Before any union meeting which you have ever at- tended, has your own local union or of district 9 of which you are a member now, you understand, have you ever been present wlien any man or woman known to you or introduced to you or believed by you to be a member of the Communist Party addressed the meeting ?
Mr. Cover. Sir, I don't know of any Communists within our dis- trict. That is a peculiar thing, and I have told my own members the same thing. I have been in this thing. I have helped form our own local, helped form the district, and I have been in it for 18 years and I have never had anybody ask me to join the Conmiunist Party or whis])er to me any kind of propaganda or anything like that. It is very peculiar, me being in the thick of all this, that I have never had anybodv proposition me in any way.
Mr. Doyle. I don't think it is peculiar. Now and then we see a man or woman stick out as prominently patriotic, vigorous, vigilant, and a sneaky, deceitful member of the Communist Party wouldn't approach that kind of person very often because they know they would not get by with it.
It may be that is the reason they have not approached you.
Mr. Cover. Certainly I have never been approached.
Mr. Doyle. If that is the reason I want to compliment you.
Mr. Cover. I would like to point out another thing : Our local prides itself that we run our local, the people do. For 18 years the member- ship has run it.
Mr. Doyle. Do you now have according to your knowledge, any member of the Communist Party in your union membership ?
Mr. Co\t:r. No, sir.
Mr, DoYi.E. So far as you know ?
Mr. Cover. So far as 1 know there is not one.
Mr. Doyle. Have j'ou ever seen any Comnmnist literature distrib- uted in your local?
Mr. Cover. No, sir ; never.
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever set-u any of it on tlic reading tables of the local ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir,
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever seen tlio People's "World there ?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. Doyle. The Daily Worker ?
Mr. Cover. No.
Mr. DoYT.E. Or the March of Labor ?
Mr. Cover. We get the March of Labor, and read it eAery month.
Mr. Doyle. Has there ever been to your knowledge any contribution directly or indirectly to the Communist Party or any Communist front ?
Mr. Cover. Not that I know of.
Mr. Doyle. Is there any group to which you have ever raised an objection about making any contribution on the ground that it might be a Communist front ?
Mr. Cover. Sir, we make very few contributions outside of civic contributions, and to locals who are out on strike and for, I would say the last 5 or 6 years we have had a policy of only contributing to locals
68 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
within our own district as near as possible. Unless some other local was in very bad straits we didn't even contribute to them when they were on strike.
Mr. Doyle. I presume — and I don't want to ask you the amount in that union defense fund — but I assume it is a sizable fund ?
Mr. Cover. You mean the local defense fund ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes, the union defense fund which you testified Mr. Gojack and two others controlled.
Mr. Cover. That is the district defense fund and not being in on the last audit, I wouldn't know how much is there.
Mr. Doyle. Has the subject of the Communist Party, its function- ing in the United States of America with respect to labor unions, ever been discussed in any of your locals or committees to your knowledge, in your presence in all the 18 years that you have been secretary of your local ?
Mr. Cover. What do you mean by "discussed" ?
Mr. Doyle. I mean discussed.
Mr. Cover. You mean the good parts of it or
Mr. Doyle. Yes, the good or bad.
Mr. Cover. Well, I can't say that it has actually been discussed, no. Once in a while groups get around and discuss what is going on, naturally. Various articles they read in the newspaper and things like that, they discuss that, sure, just like any other group of American citizens would discuss things that they read.
Mr. Doyle. That is good.
Now, in view of the fact that you offered the suggestion that there might be good parts about the Communist Party program as well as bad, I will ask you if it isn't a fact that the good parts of the Com- munist Party program have been discussed in your local in your presence.
Mr. Cover. Sir, I believe you misconstrued my statement there.
Mr. Doyle. I didn't intend to misconstrue it. You volunteered tliat language. Which did you mean, good or bad.
Mr. Cover. I didn't mean it in the sense that you are taking it. I asked you if you were asking us if we were discussing the good parts or the bad parts. I did not know how you were asking, putting the question.
Mr. Doyle. Discussing connnunism, leave it tliat way.
INIr. Cover. The only thing ever discussed was what we read in the papers. We read an article now and then and somebody gets to chewing the fat on it.
Mr. Doyle. You do it on the floor of the union ?
Mr. Cover. No, it doesn't, it comes up in the shop among the various little groups that sit around and talk during rest periods or lunch periods. Never has it been discussed on the floor of the union.
Mr. Doyle. Nor in committees of the union ?
Mr. Cover. No, sir. We don't have the issue in our shop so we don't bother with it. We have too much union issues to take care of that we don't need to enter into any of this other.
Mr. Doyle. I notice you said in answer to Mr. Tavenner and 1 wrote it down — "No, sir; our meeting was devoted to unionism and the best way to handle it." Those were your exact words. Let me ask you again, please. I am not trying to get you to say something that may not be a fact, because we on!}' want facts. Let me preface my
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 69
next question by saying this : When you tell us that or tell me in answer to my question that in all 18 years with the union numerically as strong as yours is and going through the various union plans and fights for control and so forth, that have gone through your union, when you tell me you have never discussed communism on the floor of the union I want to say to you it is the first such testimony I have heard befoi-e this committee in all the years I have been on it.
Mr. Cover. We don't have very many fights for control in our local unions.
Mr. Doyle. Apparently not.
Mr. Cover. We are pretty well in harmony. Otherwise we wouldn't stay the way we are for 18 years.
Mr. Doyle. You referred to a Supreme Court decision. You didn't refer to it, but you said when the Supreme Court rules that the Com- munist Partj^ is illegal then you will
Mr. Cover. I will abide by their decision ; yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Have you read the findings of various governmental boards that the Conmninist Party is subversive ?
Mr. Cover. I have read some of them, yes, naturally I read some of them.
Mr. Doyle. Of course you read them.
Mr. Cover. But as yeit, as I understand it the Supreme Court has not outlawed the Communist Party as a political party as such. That is the point I wish to make.
Mr. Doyle. Well, but your OAvn Government boards dealing with the subject of comnmnism have found, several of them, and this com- mittee— our full committee representing the United States Congress — declared their finding that the American Communist Party was part of an international conspiracy to violently overthrow our form of gov- ernment. You have read that, too, haven't you ?
Mr. Covt:r. I have read that, yes, sir.
Mr. Scherer. The Supreme Court so held.
Mr. Co\t:r. In the eyes of a lot of people in my home town — ^you gentlemen subpenaing me to appear before this committee — I am go- ing to be a Communist no matter what I can say. That is going to be hard for me to live down — I wish you would understand that. Even though I have testified that I am not — so by that same reasoning I figure that there is a lot of your committees and a lot of your govern- mental agencies that have declared certain organizations subversive and communistic that may not be.
I don't know. I am not saying they are not.
Mr. Doyle. Merely the fact that we subpenaed you is no indication and should not be taken by a sensible person that you are a Communist.
Mr. Cover. Some persons are not sensible.
Mr. Doyle. Your own community knows whether they can believe you under oath and you testified under oath you never have been. You have lived in that community for years.
Mr. Co\t:r. Fifty-three of them.
Mr. Doyle. If your community doesn't know enough to believe you and what you have testified to under oath then of course it is too late for tlie coimnunity to learn you now.
I want to make that clear. If there are cases where we subpena people whom we have no reason to make sure that they are Com- munists, but we also have reason to believe that if they tell the truth
70 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
they can help us uncover this conspiracy. Possibly you were in that class. You have testified that you were not a Communist, never have been and never would be. You testified you have never heard it dis- cussed on the floor of your union. Maybe we have other testimony that would contradict tliat.
Mr. Cover. I am willing to listen to it.
Mr. Doyle. If we have, that will come out eventually ; if not now, shortly.
Mr. CovEK. 1 can tell you I certainly don't fear any other testimony.
Mr. Doyle. I am not inferring, Mr. Cover, even if someone else swears under oath to the contrary, that your testimony is not to be taken with full faith and credit. I take it for granted a man who worked for the company 33 years and is a steward is not going to know- ingly mislead this committee.
I do wisli to ui'ge you, sir, because you are in a unique position as steward in tliat company of a bunch of American workers, men and women, I just Avant to add this one word to you as j^ou go home, I know about the American Communist Party and its conspiratorial nature and objectives and its determination to rule or ruin by force our constitutional form of government and do away with it when- ever they think it is time to make the move. When I went overseas last time to Asia and to Europe with the Armed Services Committee, I asked most of the American ambassadors and American consuls and our American intelligence as well as foreign intelligence what the}' thought of the proximity or tieup if there was one, between the pro- gram of the American Communist Party and the C^ommunist Party overseas in Europe and Asia.
I can just say to you tliat the answer w^as one and the same, unani- mous, one and the same international conspii'acy.
How in the world you, in the high position you hold, can give the edge to the American Communist Party and decide to wait until there is a ruling of the Supreme Court, which may not come for years on just that point, how in the world you can give the American Commu- nist Party the benefit of the doubt when so many of your own Govern- ment agencies have pronounced — and you have read it — that it is an international conspiracy, it is more than I can understand.
Mr. Cover. I am saying that the Supreme Court has not overruled them and I do think that we have adequate agencies to take care of it.
Mr. Doyle. But the FBI does not do the work we do. There is no other agency of Government who does the work that this congressional committee is challenged to do, not one. You cannot name one. They do not function the way our committee does or under the regulations our committee does. Tliey are not expected to function in this field the way we nre expected to function.
Mr. Cover. That is what I resent about this committee. I don't think the functioning of the committee is proper to indict people. If they are guilty it is different.
Mr. Doyle. I want to invite you to give your own Government the benefit of your consideration instead of giving the Communist Party the benefit.
Mr. Cover. I am not giving the Communist Party the benefit of any consideration.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 71
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Cover, you will be excused as a witness. You may remain here in the hearing^ room if you wish, and if you wish to voluntarily reappear after hearing other witnesses you may.
Mr. Cover. Am I still under subpena ?
Mr. Moulder. We will take a 5-minute recess.
(Brief recess.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Cover, the coimnittee in conference has decided not to excuse you as a witness. The subpena under which you are will be continued and you will be subject to call at any time.
Mr. Cover. I am excused at the present time ?
Mr. Moulder. You will remain here in Washington until tomorrow.
Mr. Cover. Thank you.
Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. John T. Gojack, will you come forward, please sir.
Mr. IVIouLDER. Hold up your right hand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. GojACK. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN THOMAS GOJACK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, FRANK DONNER
Mr. Moulder. Are you accompanied by counsel?
Mr. GojACK. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Counsel, state your name.
Mr. DoNNER. My name is Frank Donner, 342 Madison Avenue, New York City.
Mr. Ta%'enner. Please state your name.
Mr. Gojack. John Thomas Gojack.
Mr. Tavenner. AVhen and where were you born, Mr. Gojack?
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Congressman, before I answer any more questions I want it clearly understood in the record that I am protesting my appearance, my subpena before this committee, because this committee is not engaged in
Mr. Moulder. IVIr. Gojack, under the rules of the committee you are not permitted to make an opening statement preceding the testi- mony which you are about to give. If you have a statement we will be happy to receive it and file it.
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Congi'essman, I Avas subpenaed to come here, I am protesting my appearance here and before I answer any questions I want to state my protest and the grounds of my ]5rotest.
Mr. Moui.DER. You can file your protest as part of the proceedings. It will be received and filed. But the committee's rules prohibit your making a statement denouncing the committee and the conduct of the hearings or subpena under which you are appearing here.
Mr. Gojack. I liaven't denounced the committee yet.
Mr. INIouLDER. I assume you are about to, apparently.
Mr. Gojack. No, I am going to state my position before tliis com- mittee if you will permit me to explain my position.
Mr, Moulder. After you have been interrogated, then, if you want to make an explanation concerning any of the testimony or matter
72 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
broil fjht out by the testimony, you will probably be permitted to make a short statement if it is relevant to the questions and subject matter.
Mr. GojACK. If I know this is a union-busting venture and not a
Mr. Moulder. That is not tolerated. Such conduct on your part, or statement, is not tolerated by the committee.
Mr. GojACK. I can prove it.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed with your questioning, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. "\'Vnien and where were you born, Mr. Go jack?
Mr. GojACK. I was born in Dayton, Ohio, August 15, 1916.
Mr. TA^^NNER. "VAHiere do you now reside '?
Mr. GojACK. I reside in Fort Wayne, Ind.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your address in Fort Wayne ?
Mr. Gojack, My address is 2303 Florida Drive. Eight here I would like to express some resentment against the way in which insinua- tions were made in questioning the previous witness, who happened to be a guest of my wife in my home.
Mr. Tavenner. Since you have raised that question, how long had you known Julia Jacobs ?
Mr. Gojack. Before I answer that question I want to explain that this is not a legislative investigation for a bona fide legislative pur- pose.
Mr. Doyle. I submit the witness is reading a statement. His coun- sel and he are well informed of rule 9. If he wants to make the statement, under rule 9 he shoidd file it with the committee for the record of the proceeding.
I think we ought to proceed in regular order.
Mr. DoNNER. Under the practice of the committee you permit the witness to explain his answer.
Mr. Doyle, He is reading a prepared statement and you know he is.
Mr. Sctierer. The question is how long has he known Julia Jacobs.
Mr. Moulder. I think the witness should be further advised that this conduct on his part certainly might present foundation and basis for citation for contempt.
Proceed with your questioning.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please, which is: How long have you known Julia Jacobs ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall the exact number of years. It happens that she worked for our union, as she testified here, for a good many years, and as a representative of the same organization which em- ployed her for many years I had occasion to meet her at union con- ferences and to meet her in connection with our union's activities over a number of years. I don't recall the exact time and date.
Mr. Tavenner. As I understand, you say your acquaintanceship arose out of work in your union ?
Mr. Gojack. I happen to have known her family before that. I played with her brother as a child in Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to get the facts. When did you first meet her ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall. When I was about 6 years old I was placed in an orphanage and I have a hazy recollection of whom I knew before that. I don't even know the lady's age but I know that
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 73
some years after tliat because her family lived across the street from where my family lived and one of her brothers was a chum of mine.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know her prior to the time she was em- ployed by the union '(
JSIr. GojACK. I knew of her. I didn't know her personally.
Mr. Tavenner. How loner was it after she became employed in 1940 that you first met her persoiuilly and became personally acquainted with her ?
Air. GojACK. I went to work for this union after helping to organize the plant I woi'ked in in 1940, and it was some time after that that I came to know Miss Jacobs as an employee of one of our local unions.
Mr. Tavenxer. Will you tell the c<mmnttee, please, what your present occupation is ?
Mr. GojACK. My present occui)ation is in the capacity as general vice president and district president of the United Electrical, Kadio, and Machine Workers of America, union organization that your chair- man announced in the press he was out to put out of business. That is part of the reason why I think this whole investigation is a union- busting venture and not legitimate investigation.
Mr. Tavenxer. Are you an officer of district No. 9 ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes.
Mr. Tavenxer. What is that office ?
Mr. GojACK. I stated in answer to your first question, president of district 9.
Mr. Tavenxer. A district president. You didn't state what district.
Mr. Go.TACK. 1 happen to be elected president of district council 9.
Mr. Tavexxer. You didn't state what district. Will you tell the <'onimittee, please, what your formal educational training has been^
Mr. GojACK. Well, my formal education consists of 7 years in parochial and public schools and if you want to include other educa- tional experiences, I will be glad to recite them.
Mr. Tavenner. I am speaking of your formal educational training. That was the question. Did you attend any other schools besides those that have been mentioned ?
Mr. GojACK. I believe I went to school when I was in the Army some years ago, and I consider my 16 years in the labor movement somewhat of a schooling — starting with the original chairman of this committee.
Mr. Tavexner. Will you please tell me what your employment has been beginning, say, in 1935 ?
Mr. GojACK. Well, in 1935 I joined the United States Army. In 1937 while I was still in the United States Army when I was home on an emergency leave because my wife and child had been seriously ill in the hospital, and I was granted such emergency leave, I went to work for the General Motors Corp. in Dayton, Ohio, Delco Products plant because I couldn't feed my family on my $21 a month Army pay at the time. I was hired and went to work for that company,
Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the company ?
Mr. GojACK. Delco Products Corp., General Motors Division, Day- ton, Ohio.
Subsequently I went back to my Army base and
Mr. Tavenner. When did you go back to your Army base ?
Mr. GoJACK. I had l)een trying to secure a dependency discharge through my Congressman but there was too much redtape involved so, needing to earn more than $21 a month, I arranged for a purchase discharge in 1937.
74 COMMUNIST ACTRITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. You were discharged from the Army in 1937 ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, with an honorable discharge.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you then become a member of the Reserve?
Mr. GojACK. Then I, if I recall, at that time or shortly thereafter the Regular Army Reserve was organized and I was one of the first members in Ohio, according to some of the recruiting people, I became a member of the Regular Army Reserve.
This was in Inactive Reserve and I think it was a vei-y modest sum of a few dollars a year or a month, I don't recall which.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of the Reserve ?
Mr. GojACK. Well, some time in 1940 or 1941, I forget exactly,
1 received a communication from the Reserve with some inquiry about my family status, whether or not I had dependents, and I had to respond that I had a family at that time, that I did have dependents, whereupon I was given a discharge from the Reserve rather than being called up.
That was before there were arrangements being made for depend- ency allotments and those people who had dependents were given dis- charges, or so I was given to understand.
Mr. Tavenner. You were given a discharge when ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall the exact date. Some time in 1940 or 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. What Wiis the period of your enlistment when you entered the Army in 1935 ?
Mr. GojACK. I enlisted in Se])( ember, eitlier 5 or 9. I forget the exact date, 1935, and it was the latter part of March, if I remember correctly, when I was discharged.
^Ir. '^L'avenxer. ]\rarch of what vear?
Mr.GojACK. 1937.
Mr. ScHERER. The question was. What was the period of enlistment ?
Mr. GojACK. The enlistment in the Regular Army was December 1935 until approximately March 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you enlisted was it for a 1, 2, or 3-year term?
Mr. Go JACK. Three-year term.
Mr, Tavenner. You did not serve the 3 years?
Mr. Go.TACK. For the reasons that I stated, that my wife who had been employed, had to give up her job when she gave birth to our son, and there was a lot of talk about munificent salaries. I was making $21 a month. I had to go to work.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand you to saj^ you left the Delco Products Co. and went back into the Army and then were discharged.
Mr. GojACK. Yes. I got my job originally when I was home on leave.
Mr. Tavenxek. Did you go back to the same employment after you cauie back from the Ai'iny and received your discharge?
Mr. Go.TACK. Yes, I told my foreman I had to go back.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain employed by the Delco Products Co.?
Mr. GojACK. Off and on until sometime the summer of 1940. By off and on I mean that we had had considerable layoffs, I had worked
2 or 3 months and tlien I would go on work relief. I went on WPA,^ and didn't have any real long stretch of employment until we organ- ized the union in that plant.
' Reference refers to Works I'roffrt'ss Adiiiiiiistration.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 75
Mr. Moulder. That statement will be stricken from the record be- cause it was not responsive to the (luestion, and has no relevancy to the question asked or subject matter under investigation, and also the remark concernino; the $10,000 raise should be stricken from the record.
(Remarks In' the witness stricken from the record.)
Mr. Tavp:nxer, Did you make application for discharge from the United States Arm}^?
Mr. (xo.TACK. Yes.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you make application for discharge from thy Reserve Corps?
Mr. GojACK. Not the Eeserve Corps. I received a letter from the Reserve Corps asking me whether or not I had a family. As I remem- ber, it was a form letter. And I called some people in the Dayton Post Office and the Army office there and I asked them Avhether they had any arrangements for dependency allotments. This was in 1940, if I recall, it was before Pearl Harbor, of that I am positive. I was informed there was none. So I explained to them that I had a family to look after and that was it. I didn't volunteer anything either way. I wrote a letter answering the form letter, giving them the fact that I had a family to take care of.
Mr. Moulder. Did you have a family at that time ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, at that time I had a wife and son.
Mr. Tavenner. Possibly I can refresh your recollection about that. Our investigation shows that on December 31, 1940, you made an appli- cation for discharge on grounds of dependency, at which time you stated your salary was $110 a month. Do you recall that?
Mr. GoJACK. Sir, I answered that question. I recall receiving a form letter. To the best of my recollection it asked what my family status was and there was something in the letter about people with de- pendents having to declare that because there was no arrangement for allotments, whatever the information I got, because the letter itself didn't answer my questions.
I sought out what the regulations were. I was told that I would have to request consideration based on dependency, if that were the circumstances of my situation. I wrote them in response to the letter what my salary was at that time and if you say it was $110, it probably was.
Mr. Tavenner. You applied for discharge and furnished two affi- davits, did you not, to the Government as proof of your status ? Do you remember that ?
Mr. GojACK. No, I don't.
Mr. Tavenner. I will hand you herewith a copy of an affidavit by Arthur L. Garfield, and ask you to examine it and state if you did not submit that with your application for a discharge.
Mr. GojACK. Now that you sliow me this affidavit signed by Arthur L. Garfield, I recall that Arthur L. Garfield was the international representative of the union, under whom I was working at the time, and who would have to furnish evidence that I was employed and that I had dependents, as this affidavit says, my wife and son, who was at the time 3 years of age, were totally dependent upon my personal earnings as husband and father.
Mr. Tavenner. You did submit application and filed an affidavit in support of it. Was Mr. Garfield your superior at the time ? Mr. Go.TACK. Yes. sir.
76 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time was he your superior?
Mr. GoJACK. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Garfield was, as international representative, I wouldn't say my superior, -I worked under his guidance, from August 1, 1940, until about the early part of March 1941.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, he is again reading a statement and I object. If he wants to hie the statement, let him do it. The witness and counsel know it, he is reading a statement. I object to it as a violation of our committee rules,
Mr. Moulder. That part of his statement which he has just made will be stricken from the record and will not be a part of this proceed- ing. It is not responsive to the question asked by Mr. Tavenner.
(Remarks by the witness stricken from the record.)
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, what was your question ?
Mr. SciiERER. He asked about his employment background.
Mr. Tavenner. We are discussing the general question of his em- ployment backgi-ound. In the course of it I asked him over what period of time Mr. Garfield was his superior because the witness had Stated Mr. Garfield was his superior.
Mr. Scherer. Has he ansAvered yet ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. Gojack, going back to the question of your employment again, you came back to the Delco Products (^o., I understand, after your discharge from the Army ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir ; that is right.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Hoav long did vou remain employed by the Delco Products Co.?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall the exact months or dates, but as I stated in answer to a previous question, from about this time when I was first emplo3^ed, 19.S7, until August of 1040, I worked intermittently at the Delco products division of General Motors Corp. because in those days we were still in a depression. I worked a couple of months, I would be unemployed, I would go on work relief, I had to fight over that at times, I had to fight to get on WPA to earn $15 a week.
The exact dates I don't have with me. I will be happy to look up my WPA records. I have those.
Mr. Tavenner. What other employment did you have besides the employment at tlie Delco products division during this period?
Mr. GojACK. I did a number of odd jobs to feed my family.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the jobs ?
Mr. GojACK. I remember one job I worked as a dishwasher at the Biltmore Hotel for 26 cents an hour. I resented the fact that out of my pay envelope they deducted 2 hours' pay for eating a meal.
Mr. SciiERER. You did 6 cents better than I did. I only got 20 cents an hour for shelving books in a library.
Mr. Tavenner. What other jobs did you have ?
Mr. GojACK. Are you referring to any specific year ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; during the period of time that you say you were working intermittently at Delco products up to August 1940, 1937 to August 1940.
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall all the odd jobs I had. I went back to caddy ing for a living. I did that sometimes.
Mr. Tavenner. What else ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 77
Mr. GojACK. I recall slioveling snow in the winter time and mowing lawns and doing odd jobs for relatives.
Mr. Tavenner. What else ?
Mr. Go JACK. I remember working in a grocery, I remember scrnb- bing floors. I recall also doing volunteer work for the union in 1940 as a handbill passer. I was paid for that.
Mr. Tavenner. What union ?
Mr. GoJACK. United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Tavenner. At Dayton?
Mr. GojACK. Yes ; when they were trying to organize the General Motors plant. General Motors had driven such fear into the hearts of the workers that
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute.
Mr. GojACK. He is asking about a job and I am telling him about why I did it.
Mr. Doyle. It is a voluntary statement not responsive to the question.
Mr. GojACK. May I explain my answer ?
Mr. Tavenner. I haven't asked you anything except where you v^orked and you are making a very long story out of it. Please tell us what other jobs you had during that period of time.
Mr. Scherer. Do you have an^^thing to refresh his recollection ?
Mr. GojACK. I am searching my mind because in the years before that I had a lot of other employment.
I worked once in a hospital 12 hours a day 6 days a week, a dollar a week and my meals, during the depression. I remember that.
Mr. Moulder. ]Many of us suffered during the depression and none seem to have the attitude you have toward the Congress and Govern- ment of the United States.
Mr. GojACK. How do you know what my attitude is? I have a bitter attitude toward this committee because it is out to bust the union. This hearing was set 4 days before an election at Magnavox. Eight now this hearing is set to interfere in an election at the Whirlpool organization, St. Joseph, Mich., scheduled for Wednesday.
Mr. Moi LDER. What is your next question ?
Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to get an answer to this one.
What other places have you worked at between 1937 and August 1940 when you were intermittently working at Delco Products?
Mr. GojACK. I explained I worked for WPA.
Mr. Tavenner. You need not restate any that you have stated.
Mr. GojACK. Just a moment. During this period of the depression, if I remember correctly, there were other governmental agencies that provided work. I don't recall the exact period. I remember CWA and PWA.^ Along with most of the other unemployed in Dayton, Ohio, I worked on most of these projects and fought to get on them to earn a living and feed my family. I don't recall the exact periods, I don't recall every job I had.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the best you can recall ?
Mr. GojACK. If you will let me complete my answers, I could think of some others, probably.
1 Reference refers to Civil Works Administration and Public Works Administration. 61497 — 55 5
78 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavexner. The penalty is too great to wait that long.
Did voii work as a research editor in newspaper indexing l)etween 1939 and 1940^
Mr. GojACK. On a WPA project from which I graduated as a com- mon laborer to junior clerk, to senior clerk, to research editor I worked for the WPA in Dayton, Ohio, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. ^yhat period of time was that that you jjerformed that work ?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Tavenner, I explained I was laid oil' intermittently during this period and I had a number of assignments. Every time Delco Products would pick up a few months, I of coarse went back to private employment. Then I went back, if I recall correctly, I had 4 or 5 different classifications in WPA.
I distinctly remember having 1 job as common laborer, 1 job as a junior clerk, 1 job as senior clerk, 1 job as research assistant, 1 job as research editor, and another job I worked on the night shift for this project, assistant supervisor.
Mr. Tavenner. Where was this work of research editor performed?
Mr. Go JACK. To the best of my recollection, in a building known as the annex for one of the department stores, a vacated part of the building, U. B. annex, if I rememl)er correctly.
Mr. Tavenner. You called it tlie newspaper indexing. What news- paper ?
Mr. GojACK. This particular WPA project was to index the Dayton Journal if I remember correctly, which is now the Dayton Journal Herald. At that time we were indexing only the morning paper.
Mr. Tavenner. That is the paper on which you were working?
Mr. GojACK. To the best of my recollection, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you proceed, please, to give us your employment after August 1940, beginning with August 1940?
Mr. GojACK. In 1940 while still unemployed at Delco Products, but working for the union to get this plant organized I was given a job as a field organizer for tlie Ignited Electrical, Kadio and Machine Work- ers of America. I worl^ed as a held organizer with
Mr. Tavenner. Did that begin August 1940 ?
Mr. GojACK. August 1, 1940, if I remember correctly, yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You had no prior employment by UE ? You went there directly from the Delco Products Co. ?
Mr. GojACK. As a uiatter of fact, I was currently unemployed, I was on layoff frcmi Delco. Because I was one of the few workers who would get out at the plant and put out leaMets when the rest of the workers were totally fearful of doing this because of the wrath of General IVIotors, I was engaged to work as an organizer. They felt I had some courage in facing this giant coi'poration who had sought to keep a union out of its plant.
Mr. Tavenner. When was Delco organized ?
Mr. Go JACK. It was organized in 1940 in December. The election Avas held in January, if I rememl)er. I had been working voluntarily for the local and as I applied earlier I received some very modest amounts of money for organizing the handbill distribution and par- ticipating in handbilling.
If I remember correctly, at one point when they couldn't get work- ers to do it because of the fear of the cor]:)oration. they hired Western
COMMUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 79
Union boys and I offered to work for the same money as Western Union boys because I needed funds to supplement my WPA.
Mr. Tavenxer. Will you continue with your emplojnnent by UE beginning August 1, 1040. and the various positions held by you in that organization from that time to the present ?
Mr. GojACK. As I said earlier, I was engaged as a field organizer for that union about August 1, 19-tO. Sometime in 1942, I don't recall the exact date. I think the fall of 1942 — I would have to check the records to get the exact date — the executive board of district council 9 in the Fort Wayne area where I had by that time been sent by the national union, hired, asked the international union to give me a leave of absence to hire me as business representative of the distict council because of my experience in negotiation. At that point I went off thf^ payroll of the national union and went to work as an employee of district council 9.
Mr. Tavenxer. What experience had you had in negotiating con- tracts in 1942. when you had been employed only 2 years ?
Mr. Gojack. I had had the experience of negotiating a number of agreements in plants in Dayt<m, Ohio, such as the Simons, Wood & White Co., such as the Harold Seabold Pottery Co., a number of other plants in that city and I organized the plant that this hearing is set up to try to help the corporation get the union out of, the Whirlpool Corp., in St. Joseph, Mich.
Mr. Doyle. We are uot interested in you or anyone else attacking the committee on that. It is not true, a voluntary statement growing out of a myth of your mind. If you will answer the questions, it will save your own time and 3'OU will get back on the job much quicker, and so will we.
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Doyle, if I may explain my ansAver, 3 days before this committee was scheduled to come to Fort Wayne
]Mr. Doyle. I am not interested in sitting here hearing you give expression to your bitterness against any company, nor any person, nor any group of ])ersons. If you will answer that 3^011 will get home on the job nuich quicker, and so will we.
Mr. Gojack. I am oidy bitter at those people who seek to bust unions and when an industrial relations manager like McClaren of Magna vox announced 3 days before anyone else knew it he was bringing the com- mittee into Fort Wayne, I say that is union busting.
Mr. Doyle. If you will tell us the truth and the facts about the ex- tent to wliich there are Communists in your union, that will be help- ful.
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Doyle, I respectfully submit this hearing is not for tlie purpose of investigating my political beliefs or affiliations.
Mr. Doyle. We want to know if you are a Communist and the extent to wliieh you have been.
Mr. Gojack. I submit, sir, that you are not, for this reason
Mr. Doyle. We are not interested in your political registration at all. We want to know if you are part and party to the international Comimmist conspiracy. Are you or are you not 't
Ml-. (idJACK. ^Ir. Doyle, I respectfully submit that this hearing is not called for that purj^ose, for this reason : That you yourself said that tliis was a hearing called to investigate the Square D strike, a continuation of it.
Ml'. DoYf.E. I sait] notliiii}-- of tlie sort.
80 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. One of the other Congressmen did.
Mr. Doyle. Don't say I did because I didn't.
Mr. GojACK. One of the Congressmen said this was called to com- plete some work of last year and had reference to the Square D strike. I was in that strike, helped lead that strike, and wasn't subpenaed last year, so that the timing of this hearing — you could have subpenaed me last year — proves this is set up orily to
Mr. Moulder. You did not answer Mr. Doyle's question. He asked you if you were a member of the Communist Party and the conspiracy.
Mr. Doyle. That is right. No doubt your counsel ])lans to, but I make it clear we are not interested in having this a forum for you venting your spleen against any employer or anyone in my countiy. I still feel, whether you do or not, this is the greatest country in the world that gave you birth, and I have noticecl every time you got a chance you took a crack at something involving WPA or anything else.
Some of the rest of us passed out handbills to make a living, too. You ought to thank God that you are an American citizen instead of being bitter about it.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, I am not bitter about it. I am as proud as you are of my Americanism.
Mr. Doyle. Well, show it then.
JNIr. GojACK. I have a son in the United States Air Force, and he didn't wait until he was drafted, and I am proud of him and proud of this country, and I am fighting for this country right here.
Mr. Doyle. My son volunteered for the United States Air Force and lost his life in it. I hope yours doesn't lose his life.
Mr. GojACK. I am sorry for you, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. The witness is not answering the Congressman's question.
Mr. GojACK. Do you want me to answer the Congressman's ques- tion 'i
Mr. Tavenner. He wouldn't have asked it if he didn't want the answer.
Mr. GojACK. He said something about expecting you to ask it later on.
Mr. Doyle. You state it whenever you think it is proper. I did not mean to butt in.
Mr. Tavexner. That is perfectly all right, sir.
Since you have raised this question ahowt volunteering for service, did you volunteer for service during World War II ?
Mr. GojACK. No, sir ; I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. You were classified 1-A by your local board?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir ; I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you appeal it for deferment ?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I did not personally.
Mr. Tavenner. Who did you have to do it ?
Mr. Go JACK. At the time I received my classification in 1-A, I applied, I went to Dayton, Ohio, when I was called. I took an exami- nation, a physical examination and I passed that examination.
Mr. Scherer. Just a minute. It was a simple question. Who did you have appeal it? He said he didn't. He had somebody do it for him. You were asked who it was.
COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 81
Mr. GojACK. I am sorry, but I will have to answer the question fully.
Mr. JMouLDER. You answer the question and make any brief expla- nation you wish to make.
Mr. GojACK. I really don't know, sir. Let me explain my answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Would it surprise you if I tell you it was Mr. Fitz- gerald, president of the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers?
Mr. GojACK. Not at all. That is what I want to explain.
]Mr. Tavenner. Why didn't you tell us it was him if you knew ?
Mr. GojACK. I didn't know until you mentioned his name. I told you I didn't know. As I explained, when I w^as first classified 1-A, i went for my examination in Dayton, Ohio, transported to Dayton, Ohio, to the induction center; I passed the examination, and at the end of the table was given a choice of service. And I went up to one fellow and I said I was in the Army the last time, I will take the Marines this time.
As far as I was personally concerned, I was volunteering for the service. However, I wasn't called, if I remember they were keeping fathers out about that time. Subsequent to that when I was reclassi- fied and called up again, our union organization held a conference, discussion was held at the general executive board meeting, if I recall correctly, about some of the people heading the organization needing to be deferred for the reason that we had contracts in plants which were producing one-fifth of the w^ar material for the prosecution of World War II, and that in the interests of maintaining harmonious relations in our plants and maintaining the no-strike record of our union, that we were unique — it was cited by President Roosevelt under Secretary of War Patterson and others — that some of the leaders of this union would have to refrain from volunteering and would have to seek deferment because of their experience in negotiating and the need to have them avoid wildcat strikes and carry on the record of this organization in keeping the production going.
And I remember having discussed w itli the officers of our union and I objected to this on personal grounds because personally I didn't want to be in that position, but they convinced me that the decision of the oi'ganization should hold, that in the area I was working in I had had the most experience in negotiation and the record was clear that I had personally averted many strikes in our plants, in our dis- trict. We had none in that entire district during tlie entire war, not even any wildcat strikes.
For that reason, the officers, as you say, President Fitzgerald wrote the letter just as Jim Carey, who is secretary of the CIO, who was my age, himself, was deferred for sitting at a desk job here in Washington.
They felt that people actually in the field should be given the same consideration for remaining at their posts.
Mr. Tavenxer. In December 1942, just a little before you were given the 1-A classification, you were prominent and active in calling for the second front, were you not ?
Mr. GojACK. I wouldn't say I was prominent and active. All I re- call about that was there was a picture taken with the leaders of the CIO, including some people who are now in the A. F. of L. and officers of UAW-CIO, Amalgamated Clothing Workers, CIO, Hosiery
82 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Workers, now A. F. L., the Packinghouse Workers, CIO, Steelworkers, CIO.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you about yourself.
Mr, GojACK. I was inchided in that group at a meeting in Avhich someone had a banner tliat said something about the second front. The lUE-CIO, a rival organization, has been using that picture and circulating it throughout the country just like somebody circulating this pamphlet about Senator jNIurray in the campaign.
Mr. Tavenner. I have it in the Daily Worker, August 7, 1942. Will you examine it and state whether that is the photograph to which you refer ?
Mr. Go JACK. Just like the Daily Worker caption on the pamphlet against Senator Murray.
Mr. Doyle. We are not asking you about Senator ]Murrny.
Mr. GojAGK. This is the same propaganda.
Mr. Doyle. You are taking advantage and making propaganda speeches against the A. F. of L. and CIO and somebody else. Just answer for yourself, please.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the photograph to which you have referred ?
Mr. GojACK. This is the photograph that I described that included officers of many CIO and now A. F. L. unions in Fort Wayne. I was one of them.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the exhibit in evidence, copy of the Daily Workei-, and ask that it l)e marked "Gojack Exhibit No. 1," for identification purposes oiily a]id to be made a part of the committee files.
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered.
Mr. GojACK. I want to further explain that I never saw this pic- ture in the Daily Worker. The first time I saw it was in lUE-CIO propaganda and I have a copy of it here just like the material some- one put against Senator jMurray, the same purpose, same smearing.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, do you recall whether or not after Mr. Fitzgerald requested your deferment that you were granted a 2-A classification on June 21, 1944 ?
Mr. Go JACK. I don't recall the exact date.
Mr. Ta\-enner. Our information is that that is correct.
Mr. Go JACK. I am not denying it.
Mr. Tavenner. And that you were reclassified 1-A on January 10, 1945.
Mr. Fitzgerald appealed again on January 15, 1945. Do you recall that?
Mr. Go JACK. I don't recall the exact dates.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you given an induction order on January 18, 1945. directing you to report for service ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall, sir. As I said earlier, there were, I had been reclassified, classified, I was in and out. The regulations changed frequently and I was involved in the business of the organization seek- ing a deferment for me.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Our investigation showed that the induction order was withdrawn after the appeal had been granted. However, you were again classified 1-A on April 25, 1944. This time Mr. Julius Emspak appealed. Do yon recall that ?
COMMUNIST ACTRlTiES IX THE FOKT WAYNE, IND., AREA 83
Mr, Go JACK. I don't recall the exact dates or the persons involved.
Mr. Tavenxer. As a result of that appeal, yon were granted a 2-A classification on July 7, 1945. That is correct, isn't it ^
INIr. GojACK. I am not certain, I don't recall the exact dates.
Mr. Tavenxer. Finally, a 4-A classitication in October of 1945. Does that meet with your recollection ?
Mr. (tojack. Sir, I don't recall the exact dates or the exact order in which my classilication was changed. It was changed far more frequently tlnin that, to my recollection, including from the time when I first went down to take the examination and passed it.
Mr. Tavenxer. You raised considerable question here about volun- teering for action rather than waiting for induction.
Mr. (tojack. That was with respect to my son.
Mr. Tavex^xer. Not you ^ Your son ?
Mr. GojACK. The specific reference I made to volunteering was to my 18-year-old son who volunteered.
Mr. Tavexxer. That doesn't apply to you.
INIr. Doyle. Give him my compliments.
Mr. GojACK. I volunteered for the United States Army back in 1985 and I tried to get in the service generally in the war.
Mr. Moulder. That has been covered.
Mr. Tavexxer, It doesn't seem that you have taken any action here to try to get in World War II as far as these records are concerned.
Mr. Cjojack. You don't have all the records. I don't have the rec- ord where I passed my examination and took my choice of service and then wasn't called.
Mr. Ta\tenxer. As a result of the appeal that was given in your behalf?
Mr. GojACK. It was much before that.
Mr, Tavexxer. AVliat date ?
]\Ir. GojACK. I don't recall the time. It was early in the war, though, sir. It was later on that the union adopted a policy about deferments.
Mr. Tavexxer. You weren't classified 1-A until 1943, October 27, 1943.
Mr. Go JACK. Do you have a record of my medical in Cincinnati?
Mr, Tavexxer. An appeal was made very shortly after that.
Mr. Go JACK. If you have a record of my medical there, it will give you the chronology of it.
]Mr. Tavexxer. How old were you Avhen you were given a 1-A classification in 1943? I failed to make a note of the date of vour birth.
Mr. GojACK. August 15, 1916.
Mr. Tavexn^er. That is approximately 37 years of age.
Mr. Go JACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavexxer. Let's go back again to the period that you were em- ployed by the UE. The last that you told us was that in 1942 you were hired as business agent by the executive board of district No. 9. How long did 3^ou serve in that capacity ?
Mr. GojACK. Until the fall of 1943 at which time I was elected president of district council 9, if I remember correctly.
Mr. Tavexxer. How long did you remain president of district 9, the council of district 9 ?
84 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. I liave been elected annually, reelected annually, for every year since that time on a number of occasions in contested elec- tions, with opponents, but I received the majority vote in our district council meeting in which the elections take place annually, in the fall.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you still hold that position?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, the last reelection was in the fall of 1954.
Mr. Tavenner. What other positions have you held in the union be- sides the ones you have told us of ?
Mr. GojACK. According to the constitution of our union, by virtue of that office of district council president, I am automatically a general vice ])resident of the national union and a member of the general exe- cutive board. And I have held that office concurrent with the district council position in accordance with the constitution of our organiza- tion.
Mr. Tavenner. I think now I shall ask the question that the Con- gressman asked you a few moments ago : Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any time wliile occupying any of the posi- tions you have enumerated in the union ?
Mr. GojACK. In 1949 and 1950 and 1951 and 1952 and 1953 and 1954, on August 24, 1954, 1 signed an affidavit which said :
I am a responsible officer of the union named below, the UE. I am not a mem- ber of the Communist Party or affiliated with such party, I do not believe in and I am not a member of nor do I support any organization that believes in or teaches the overthrow of the United States Government by force or by any illegal or unconstitutional methods.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to answer Mr. Tavenner's question because obviously his answer was not responsive to the question.
Mr. Moulder. That is correct. The witness is directed to give a direct answer to the question propounded by counsel. As I recall, he asked you whether or not at any time while you have been employed by the ITE in any official caj^acity, were you at any time a member of the C'ommunist I^arty.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Moulder, I don't believe that this committee has any right to investigate my political beliefs or affiliations, especially so when its purpose is union-busting.
Mr. Tavenner. The answer is not responsive to the question.
Mr. GojACK. I will explain why. If you want to know my political beliefs, you can check the records in Allen County, Ind.
Mr. Moulder. The fact that you refuse to answer that question truthfully — would that have the effect of busting the union ?
Mr. GojACK. Every time I cast a ballot in the primary election I have had to register my party preference and those records are avail- able to you and that convinces me you are not interested in my political affiliation.
Mr. Moulder. You were asked a very simple question as to whether or not you had ever been a member of the Communist Party while you were employed by or actively engaged in any official capacity for the UE.
Mr. GojACK. I don't believe that Public Law 601
Mr. Moulder. You can answer that.
Mr. GojACK. Gives this committee the right to inquire into my
Mr. Doyle. I do not mean to interrupt you again, but you are pro- ceeding again to read that prepared statement. Why don't you come
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 85
out for the right and give us a forthright answer, an honest-to-God answer, and answer the question promptly and quickly ?
You know very well whether or not you have been a member of the Communist Party. That is our question.
Mr. GojACK. My forthright answer is this.
Mr. Doyle. You have taken about 3 minutes already trying to get out of answering that question.
Mr. GojACK. I haven't been hedging. You Congressmen have been taking the floor.
Mr. Moulder. You said 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1954
Mr. Doyle. Down to August 24, 1954.
Mr. Moulder. In 1948 were you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. This affidavit is still on file. I don't believe the resolu- tion which put you up in business, under the first amendment to the Constitution, gives you the right to inquire into my political beliefs.
Mr. Moulder. You have no hesistancy in answering the question as to 1949. That was after the law compelled you to sign this affidavit. Prior to that time, say 6 months prior to 1948, were you then a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Congressman, because these hearings were set up to interfere in labor board elections in Magnavox and Whirlpool
Mr. Moulder. Do you refuse to answer the question ?
Mr. GojACK. No, if you let me answer the question I will answer it. I will give you the ansM'er in my own way.
Mr. Moulder. Were you a member of the Communist Party in the year 1948 ?
Mr. GojACK. Look — it is not a simple question. When you have got paid liars like Matusow around here and you had a fellow from Ohio that was a lunatic that testified in one case, and this com- mittee
Mr. Moulder. You can tell the truth.
Mr. GojACK. This committee took the word of a lunatic and tried to frame some people, and Cecil Scott and Representative Walter
Mr. Tavenner. Cecil Scott never testified.
Mr, GojACK. The chairman of the committee said Cecil Scott was a lunatic and altered a document before this committee and Walter said he would recommend the matter be referred to the United States Attorney.
Mr. Tavenner. That doesn't excuse you from telling the truth. What is the truth ? Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time before you became a UE employee or since ?
Mr. GojACK. When you have a paid liar like Matusow
Mr. Tavenner. He is not testifying about you.
Mr. GojACK. Matusow tells in his revelations about going into Daj^- ton, Ohio, and meeting with the personnel manager
Mr. Scherer. I ask that this diatribe be stopped, Mr. Chairman. I don't have to take that from you even if the chairman — it is a simple quest i<m.
Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct him to answer the questioiL May I ask a question ?
Were you ever a member of the Communist Party? Let's get the record straight because I want to get this record just right. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. I am going to answer that question in my own way.
Mr. Moulder. The question calls for a civil answer.
86 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. Not while you have paid liars like Matusow and Strunk, who said this lad was running a strike in a guided missile plant in Detroit. I was involved in that strike. It is not a guided missile plant, in the first place. I tried to break that strike on that paid liar's testimony.
Mr. ScHERER. I am directing you to quit talking and answer the question, and if you don't you are in contempt.
Do you understand ?
Mr. GojACK. I think it is up to the courts to decide who is in cou- tempt, not you. We haven't reached a stage in this country where a Moulder or a Scherer can tell who is in contempt. I have some faith in the courts of this land yet.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer the question pro- pounded to you by Mr. Scherer. You have not answered the question, I understand.
Mr. Tavenner. Let's get together on the question because that is important.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, may I have the floor ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Gojack. My answer to that question is that since 1949 I have signed these affidavits, one on file now. McCarthy had an investiga- tion, which the Department of Justice said
Mr. Scherer. Just a minute.
Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct him to answer my question.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer the question.
Mr. Go JACK. I am going to answer your question if you will be patient.
Mr. Moulder. When ?
Mr. Gojack. If you will stop interrupting and let me answer, I will.
Mr. Moulder. How long do you think it will take you to answer?
Mr. Gojack. I think I can do it in about a minute and a half.
Mr. Moulder. That question calls for a simple "Yes" or "No."
Mr. Gojack. Not when you have paid liars like Matusow around who frame these hearings.
Mr. Moulder. That is enough.
Mr. Gojack. I think the first amendment to the Constitution pro- tects me in my right to challenge this committee asking me any ques- tions about my political affiliation or beliefs and especially when it is used for union busting.
Mr. Moulder. Do you claim the privilege under the fifth amend- ment now ?
Mr. Gojack. No ; I have not.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer the question : Were you ever a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Gojack. I am saying the first amendment to the United States Constitution gives me the right to challenge your committee using this hearing for union busting and for strike breaking as in the case of this paid liar, Strunk, who lied about the Square D strike.
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer the question ?
Mr. Gojack. I will answer the question my own way.
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer the question for the reasons you have just stated ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 87
Mr. Go JACK. For the reason that the first amendment
Mr. Moulder. Do yon decline to answer for the reason of the first amendment; is that right?
Mr. GojACK. No; for the reason that the first amendment of the United States Constitution
Mr. Moulder. That is enough. Proceed.
Mr. GojACK, I \vant to give my explanation.
Mr, ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I insist that you ask counsel to pro- ceed now.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed. However, I want to
Mr. GojAiK. You are not permitting me to give my explanation of the answer.
Mr. Moulder. You have not attempted to answer the question. You have been making a speech like an ordinary soapbox Communist orator.
Mr. GojACK. I haven't had the opportunity to vote myself a $10,000 raise.
]Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed.
Mr. (to.tack. I want the record to show I have not been given an opportunity to make an explanation.
Mr. Moulder. Are you refusing to answer the question because Congress voted itself a $10,000 raise ?
Mr. GojACK. No ; but I resent — and not with bitterness against my Government because I love my Government, although I dislike some of the people currently in control of it from Charlie Wilson on down.
Mr. ^louLDER. Can you
Mr. GojACK. Some of these other corporation people here are here for the sole purpose of using this hearing to bust our union.
Mr. Doyle. You have made a speech, so your members will know what you have said before the committee.
Mr. MoT'LDER. I want to resubmit the question whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party in the year 1948 or at any time prior to the time you signed the first affidavit referred to in your testi- mony.
Mr. GojACK. My answer to that is
Mr. Moulder. You answered the question as to 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1954.
Mr, Doyle. No. he has not. All he said was he swore to an affidavit. I do not take cognizance that the affidavit is an answer to the question.
Mr. Moulder. AVere you then a member of the Communist Party in 1948, at any time during the year 1948 ?
Mr. GoJACK, The purpose of this hearing clearly in my mind is not legislative in character,
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer ?
Mr. Go JACK. This hearing is designed to influence an election, designed to smear me. You have no right as a committee
Mr. Moulder. You are arguing with us. You have not answered the question, you have declined to answer it.
Mr. Go JACK. My answer to the question is when you have paid liars like Matusow, paid liars like Strunk, and paid liars like this lunatic, Cecil Scott, aroimd
Mr. Doyle. That is the fourth time you have given those as your reasons.
88 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Go JACK. There may be others.
Mr. Doyle. Don't repeat those same reasons. Start in on some new ones, if you have them.
Mr. GojACK. I think my reason is about the best one I can think of because I love the United States Constitution and I think that the first amendment ought to protect me, particularly insofar as the first amendment doesn't give or rather guards against the kind of an opera- tion this witch-hunting committee is engaged in.
^Ir. Moulder. Do you claim the privilege under that amendment and decline to answer? Do you decline to answer by claiming the privilege under the first amendment?
Mr. GojACK. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. Let's go to the next question.
Mr. Moulder. All right.
Mr. DoTLE. It is 4 : 30, Mr. Chairman . We talked about adj ourning.
Mr. GojACK. May I finish my explanation? I haven't finished yet. I mean in regard to this paid liar Matusow, this liar Strunk, Cecil Scott
Mr. ScHERER. I ask that we proceed with the next question. Matu- sow was a Communist.
Mr. GojACK. Also a union buster. He was your boy then. You loved him then.
Mr. Mot^LDER. I want to ask you one question : Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. I have this affidavit on file and that affidavit speaks for itself.
Mr. ScHERER. Wait a minute, I ask that you direct the witness to answer your question. Let's keep this record straight. I am going to make a motion to cite him for contempt.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer the question "Yes" or "No" : Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
It is a very simple question calling for a very simple answer.
Mr, Go JACK. I swore to an affidavit.
Mr. Moulder. What was the date of the affidavit ?
Mr. GojACK. August 24, 1954.
Mr. MoLTLDER. I am referring to this date.
Mr. GojACK. This covers this date. This affidavit is still on file.
Mr. DoYUE. It does not.
Mr. GojACK. It does.
Mr. Doyle. The chairman asked you whether or not you are a mem- ber of the Communist Party today, the date you are sitting in that chair.
Mr. GojACK. I am telling you this affidavit is on file here in Wash- ington and this affidavit, signed and notarized says I am not a mem- ber of tlie Communist Party or affiliated with such party and it also has the reference in there to not believing in or not being a member of nor supporting any organization that believes in or teaches the over- throw of the I'nited States by force or by any illegal or unconstitu- tional methods. That affidavit is on file and in effect.
Mr. ScHERER. Who do you think you are fooling? I ask you, Mr. Chairman, that you direct him to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair requests that you answer the question as to whether or not you are now a member of the Communist Party.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 89
Mr. Doyle. ^Mr. Chairman, I submit it is not a matter of requesting, that you as chairman under the law and under your assignment are directing him to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer.
Mr. GojACK. Under the first amendment to the Constitution you have no right to even have this hearing.
Mr. Doyle. That is your opinion.
Mr. GojACK. Yes, and I am entitled to my opinion in this country still, though we are getting dangerously close to the point when Rep- resentative Walter can tell people how to vote in an election.
Mr. Doyle. Why do j-ou decline to give an honest answer? You don't suppose we will take that affidavit as the answer to this question, do you ?
Mr. GojACK. I am not going to cooperate with union busters. My union is on record as the UAO-WAC, not a bad union, to fight back against McCarthys, McCarrans, Jenners, and Veldes.
Mr. MoiT^DER. Do you want to answer or do you decline to answer the question that has been asked ? Are you now a member of the Com- munist Party ?
]\Ir. GojACK. I am letting the record speak for itself,
Mr. ScHERER. Let's proceed. You have given him every op- portunity.
Mr. Tavexer. Do you want to go ahead any further this after- noon ? This is a good breaking place.
Mr. MoL'LDER. The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock in the morning, at which time Mr. Gojack will be recalled.
(Whereupon, at 4 : 45 p. m., the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. Tuesday, March 1, 1955.)
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AEEA
TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 1955
United States House of Kepresentatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on
Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
PUBLIC HEARING
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in the caucus room, 362, Old House Office Building, Washington, D, C, Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chair- man) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder (chairman), Clyde Doyle, and Gordon H. Scherer.
Stall' members present : Frank S. Taveimer, Jr., counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
The committee wishes to announce Mr. Cover is excused as a witness.
Will you call Mr. Gojack.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN THOMAS GOJACK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, FRANK DONNES— Kesumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, in the course of the hearing at Dayton in September 1954, testimony was received that during the progress of the Univis Lens strike in 1948 in Dayton, the Communist Party sent to Dayton certain of its functionaries to aid and counsel the strike committee which had been set up by the union to conduct that strike.
Do you have any knowledge of your own of the manner and extent of Communist participation in that strike?
Mr. Gojack. In 1948, to the best of my recollection, I was working in various areas of Indiana and Michigan where UE locals affiliated with District Council 9 are located. Upon occasion down through the years since I left Dayton in 1941, 1 visited my family. I have brothers and sisters residing in Dayton and a father there who is a patient in the chronic patients hospital home I visited upon occasion. I never had occasion to be near the Univis Lens strike or to consult with any- one actually in that strike.
I read about it in the newspapers and that is all the information I have, what I have read in the press, commercial press and union press.
Mr. Moulder. Were you in Dayton during the Univis strike?
91
92 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. I don't even recall how lono- the strike was. I might have been in Dayton visiting my father or brothers and sisters some time, but I have no recollection of it.
Mr. ScHERER. You would remember, I am sure, if you had been in Dayton at the time of the Univis Strike because there was a great deal of violence connected with it. Was not that the strike in which the National Guard was called out, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, I am positive I was not there at the time of the alleged violence, for if I had been I would have been on that picket line just as I have walked on CIO and AFL picket lines as re- cently as a few weeks ago. As an active trade unionist I never pass up an opportunity to help any union that is in struggle for its right to strike or its right to economic gains. I participated in a number of them.
Mr. Scherer. There were Communists on that picket line.
Mr. GojACK. I was not in Dayton at the time or nowhere near the Univis Lens strike. If I was in Dayton during the strike it must have been when the strike was at its quite early stages, but I am not sure of that.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in any manner in the conduct of that strike ^
Mr. GojACK. None whatsoever.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not speaking of the mere question of walking the picket line. That is a minor phase of it.
Mr. GojACK. I think walking a picket line is a major part of the strike.
Mr. Tavenner. It wasn't in that strike, according to the testimony we had.
Mr. Gojack. It is in every strike I have been engaged in.
Mr. Tavenner. I am speaking of the plans that were formed by the strike committee for the discussion of that strike. Did you have any- thing to do with that ?
Mr. Gojack. No, I didn't, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. According to the testimony, organizei-s from the TJE were sent into the area to participate in the conduct of that strike from various areas. Were any sent from your district ?
Mr. Gojack. There were no organizers from the UE district council 9 who were assigned to district council 9 who were loaned or trans- ferred or sent to the Univis Lens strike. None whatsoever, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Arthur Garfield ?
Mr. Gojack. At what period, sir?
Mr. Tavenner. During 1948.
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall. I knew Mr. Garfield, I kept in touch with him, he was in it, I knew him before the war, I kept in touch with him when he was in the Pacific and Philippines, I was at his wedding when he came back from the service. I don't remember 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him in 1948?
Mr. Gojack. I knew of him. Whether I met Arthur Garfield in 1948 or not, I don't recall. I rather doubt it.
Mr. Tavenner. Had he been assigned as an organizer in vour dis- trict prior to 1948 ?
That is, district No. 9.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 93
Mr. GojACK. No, Arthur Garfield was never assigned to district council 9 any time I was there.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, apparentlj^ you did become acquainted with him later.
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I knew Arthur Garfield in 1940. He organized the shop I worked in. I came to know him personally as an associate in our union work. As I testified, I kept in touch with him occasion- ally when he was in the service. As a matter of fact, ray wife baked cookies for him.
Mr. ScHERER. Why were you in doubt a few minutes ago about your knowing him in 1948? You indicate you may have known him in 1948. Now you tell us you have known him since 1940.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, I was not in doubt and I resent the im- plication here that I am in doubt just as much as I resent the evil in- sinuations brought out by Mr. Tavenner and Members of Congress here yesterday which resulted in the radios of my community suggest- ing something insidious in the fact that a previous witness, Miss Julia Jacobs, happened to be a house guest of my wife at a period I was mainly gone. My wife has a brother in the Fort Wayne Hospital. Her father is a respected, notable minister in a nearby community, and I resent this.
I resent it deeply and I think that it ill becomes and ill behooves a committee of Congress to allow its counsel to cast these evil insinu- ations and prey upon suggestive matter such as this.
Mr. Scherer. It was the witness, your friend Julia Jacobs, who brought it out. It wasn^t Mr. Tavenner. I remember the testimony very well. She brought it out, volunteered the information, not this committee.
Mr. GojACK. The record will show that the counsel and the com- mittee played upon the theme that she was a guest of the Gojack family, kept repeating the address, for whatever evil insinuations I don't know happened to be in j^our minds. I think it is dirty.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Gojack, I cannot think of anything, either, that you can construe as evil as a result of her being a guest or staying in your house, other than your own conclusions that you might draw irom it.
Mr. Gojack. You folks know how you feed your things to the press. You know how this committee stages its affairs.
Mr. Moulder. Like vShakespeare, methinks you protest too much about it. I saw nothing evil about it. They were interrogating her about the address on the application for a passport. Any conclusions you have reached about it are your own. It just related'to the appli- cation for the passport.
Mr. Gojack. I resent it.
Mr. Tavenner. The only purpose for asking the question was the witness had testified she did not live in Fort Wayne, that she lived at some other place in the State of Indiana, and we were wondering why the Fort Wayne address had been given on the application for passport. It appeared to be a false statement. It was the only purpose in the world, there was no personal relationship, as you indi- cated, that we had in mind at all. You are the only one I'know of that suggested it.
94 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK, I am happy to hear that, Counsel, and I think that I am just as entitled to the resentment I drew from that just as you were to my remark yesterday that all of you folks up there voted your- self a $10,000 raise and it ill behooves you to make snide remarks about wages paid to union office secretaries.
Mr. Moulder. I am sorry you brought that up again. That will just about make me break even as a Member of Congress, almost.
Mr. GojACK. You might treat 3^our witnesses better, too.
Mr. Moulder. That is not relevant to this hearing.
Mr. ScHERER. The only trouble you got yourself in was your own contemptuous conduct yesterday and it is well planned. We have been baited before by the Communists and union leaders who asso- ciate themselves with that group. It has been followed all over the country. So we expected you to do what you did. You do it as a show for the people back home.
Mr. GojACK. You stage your shows with lunatics like Cecil Scott and paid liars like Matusow and Strunk.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, a member of the subcommittee, is excused. It is necessary that he be absent from the hearing for approximately •20 minutes because of necessity of his appearance with Congressman Walter before the Committee on Rules.
(Representative Clyde Doyle left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. I believe, according to your earlier testimony, you ]-esided in Fort Wayne in 1916, is that correct ?
Mr. GojACK. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. While you were residing in Fort Wayne, was there a strike conducted in General Electric by a local of the UE ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir ; there was.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the number of the local ?
Mr. Go JACK. It was at that time UE Local 901.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party participate in any man- ner in the conduct of that strike ?
Mr. GojACK. That strike was voted by the membership of local 901. The membership voted upon a plan of strike action which included the establishment of committees for various activites in the conduct of the strike.
Each chairman of the various strike committees made up what was known as a strike strategy committee. That strike strategy committee met every morning in the office of UE Local 901. The entire conduct of that strike was in the hands of that strike strategy committee, the various stewards and picket captains meetings that were called and also the special membership meetings that were called.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Who was the secretary of local 901 at tliat time ?
Mr. GojACK. If I remember correctly, Miss Bertha Scott.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the strike committee ?
Mr. GojACK. No, sir; I was a member of another GE local at the time, but I served in a helpful capacity assisting the local in the con- duct of the strike.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend its meetings ?
Mr. GojACK. Some of them, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall attending a meeting on January 16, 1946, at which you ]Dresented a letter that had been written to you by the secretary of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall presenting a letter myself.
COaiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 95
I recall 1 incident in this strike, 2, as a matter of fact; 1 in which the local had received a communication with an offer from some- one to give them copies of this paper or to furnish them to people active in the strike. There was quite a discussion about this. At one strike strategy committee meeting as I recall, as a matter of fact, a heated discussion. The strike strategy committee took a vote on it. I was not a party to the vote. I was not a party to the discussion other than I was asked a question about this paper and as a matter of fact, I recall this very clearly. Someone raised the question about does reading this so-called Communist paper, I believe it was the Worker, or the Daily Worker, does that make you a Communist. I remember in response to a question saying that, well, I read the Wall Street Journal and that didn't make me a capitalist, and that I per- sonally read everything I could. I only had seven grades of formal schooling and I gave myself an education after that by reading a lot.
I have read a lot. I am sorry to say that there are certain things in this country that since the rise of McCarthy are now forbidden read- ing material and I think that is a sad thing for this country.
Mr. Moulder. I don't think you need to apologize about your educa- tion. You are a very brilliant man.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not the communication with respect to the making available of the Dail}^ Worker to your strike committee was addressed to you ?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I don't recall that at all and I might say this: that the lady who took those minutes of that meeting didn't like me at all and on many occasions I found that the minutes she took com- pletely distorted my position in meetings. As a matter of fact, the closest supporter of this woman, one Dallas Smith, who was involved ill another incident where some Communists gave them coffee for the strike, and I will be glad to give you the details on the use of Com- munist coffee in the strike, that this Dallas Smith later went on to break this union and later was engaged by the General Electric Co. and is today an employee in the personnel office paid off for helping to break that union.
That union in that plant ha])pens to be in a very weakened position with less than 500 members out of 9,000 workers in that shop, paying dues into the union.
It was the activities of people like Dallas Smith who was paid off by the company and this woman who distorted the minutes who are responsible for that.
Mr. ScHERER. Was this woman who you say distorted the minutes a fellow union member at the time ?
Mr. GojACK. She never worked in the shop. She w^as hired as a secretary. She was then elected to secretary.
Mr. ScHERER. Of the union ^
Mr. GojACK. Of the union.
Mr. ScHERER. You claim she was an employer's stooge for the pur- pose of sabotaging you ?
Mr. GojACK. I have no evidence to that effect. I merely stated my belief, my knowledge, that she never ]iassed up an opportunity to do a job on me and how she colored her minutes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have charged Miss Scott with altering the minutes or improperly reporting them because you see before me a typewritten statement. Is that the reason you are doing it? You
96 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
are anticipating that I am going to read you the minutes of that meet- ing?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know how many paid liars you have working for you. I know of three of my own knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
Mr. GojACK. As to what ?
Mr. Tavenner. As to whether or not the reason for your attacking Miss Scott is that you see that I have before me what appears to be a copy of the minutes ?
Mr. Go JACK. I don't see what you have before you. You have all kinds of papers before you.
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that the matter was presented to a meeting, and that the account of it was improperly stated by Miss Scott — before I have given you any facts in regard to it at all. Have you seen it before ?
Mr. GojACK. I know it from other reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you seen it before ?
Mr. GojACK. No, I know this because Mr. Dallas Smith and the group wnth him who are members of the lUE-CIO, the only McCarthyite union in America, a union that cooperates with you, you had material here yesterday tliat the lUE-CIO stole from our union office. You are using material stolen by a rival union. This same union, this same clique, Dallas Smith, who is now working for Gen- eral Electric as a boss, have used and distorted what happened dur- ing this strike.
Mr. Sciierer. What union did you call a McCarthyite union ?
Mr. GojACK. lUE-CIO.
Mr. Tavenner. Let's proceed.
Mr. GojACK. I haven't finished my answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You are not answering the question. You are arguing extraneous matters.
Mr. GojACK. I am explaining that I know of this distortion because the lUE-CIO and Dallas Smith had used this in their attempts to wreck the union in 1949 and subsequent to that.
Mr. Tavenner. You are saying the statement is false before you have heard me make any reference to it.
Mr. GojACK. I am saying it is false because the lUE-CIO have used this repeatedly.
Mr. Tavenner. You have stated you have never seen it before.
Mr. GojACK. I never have
Mr. Tavj:nner. In other words, you are swearing something false "which you liaven't seen and as to which I have not yet asked you a question.
Let me ask you the question and see whether you say it is false: According to the minutes of January 16, 1946, which I quote :
A letter was read addressed to Brother Gojack from the secretary of the Com- niunist Party stating that they would like to donate 100 copies of the Worker, weekly paper of the Communist Party.
Is that true or false?
Mr. Gojack. As I recall that meeting
Mr. Tavi:nner. Will you answer the question, please, and then you may explain your answer. Is it true or false ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall whether I read the statement. The sec- retary read the letter first, as I remember.
Mr. Tavenner. That isn't an answer to the question.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 97
Mr. GojACK. They asked me if I had a communication. It so hap- pened that I had received one.
Mr. Tavenner. You had received it. That is the question I have been trying to get you to answer. From whom did you receive it ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it from the secretary of the Commuriist Party?
Mr. GojACK, I don't know.
Mr. Taa-enner. Who was the secretary of the Communist Party of the State of Indiana at that time ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Ehner Johnson ?
Mr. GojACK. Let me explain my other answer — I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Ehiier Johnson ?
Mr. Go JACK. I will get to that later. I am going to explain my other answer. The reason I don't know whether this communication came from any Communist, I have received communications from the lUE-CIO and I have seen this McCarthyite union forge communica- tions allegedly from the Communist Party for just such purposes as this.
Mr. Scherer. You are charging another union with forgery now?
Mr. GojAGK. Just the same kind of forgery your lunatic Cecil Scott used.
Mr. Scherer. He has mentioned Cecil Scott. Cecil Scott testified before this committee I think 4 years before I became a Member of Congress, but it so happens I must say in defense of Cecil Scott, that wliat he said in that executive testimony has been corroborated over and over again by many competent witnesses. And the testimony of Cecil Scott was never released by this committee. I have to say that.
Mr. Tavenner. You made an explanation as to the lUE forging documents. lUE was not in existence in 1946, was it ?
Mr. GojACK. No; but people Avho later created this McCarthyite outfit were active in 1946 laying the groundwork for it. Dallas Smith and Bertha Scott were some of those people.
Mr. Scherer. Whatever you say about tlie lUE, at least I am of the opinion that it is not Communist dominated, no matter how viciously you attack it and charge it with forgery, et cetera.
Mr. GojACK. Why were 14 officers of the lUE-CIO fired at Sperry a year ago as security risks and haven't gotten their jobs back yet? They were some of your anti-Connnunist's friends. As a matter of fact, right today this committee is helping two security risks at Mag- navox, by your work here. You are helping two people declared se- curity risks, and are security risks today.
IVIr. Moulder. Tell us wlio tliese individuals are.
Mr. GojACK. William Ives and Leroy Williams, who were then president and chief steward of UE Local 910 at Magnavox were declared security risks.
Mr. Tavenner. Why ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know. Why were 250 people declared security risks at Republic Aviation and fired last year, members of A. F. of L. unions? There is something wrong, I think, with the whole program. But these two gentlemen somewhere along the line decided that the way to try to get pure was to attack this union and try to wreck it in the Magnavox plant and as recently as a couple of weeks ago they came out openly for one of the rival raiding unions, UAW-AFL. In
98 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
the first election UE led by a substantial vote and we face a runoflf with the UAW-AFL.
The leaders of the UAW-AFL whom you gentlemen are helping are still security risks. I feel sorry for them that they are innocent and have been framed.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss the matter with Ives ?
Mr. GojACK. At the time he became a security risk.
Mr. Tavenner, Since the time this question came up ?
Mr. GojACK. Last January I did, and went to Chicago with him.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you the nature of the charges ?
Mr. GojACK. I saw a copy of them.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you know why ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know what the details were in the hearing. I wasn't at the hearing.
Mr. Tavenner. You know the nature of the charges ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes,
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature ?
Mr. GojACK. Some vague guilt-by-association charges.
Mr. Tavenner. With whom ?
Mr. Gojack. One was for activity in the CIO strike at the Salem Furniture Co.
Mr, Tavenner. AYith whom? Answer that question, please.
Mr. GojACK. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner, Was it you ?
Mr, Gojack, I don't know that.
Mr. Tavenner, Wasn't it stated in the charges ?
Mr, Gojack, It was not. It most certainly was not,
Mr, Tavenner, Were you so told by Ives ?
Mr, Gojack. No. Not only that, Mr. Tavennei-, but since you are trying to imply that I was responsible for his security risk, I want to tell you something else. There is another plant in Fort Wayne, a Capehart plant, whose security officer was in this room trying to use this witch-hunting committee for his union-busting purposes.
In his plant the chief steward was also declared a security risk for the same kind of loose charges as Bill Ives, I was with that man when we met with the security people and he has been subsequently cleared, cleared for top-secret work,
Mr. Scherer. In view of your taking the first amendment as to whether you were a Communist or not, I would be in sympathy with those people who were trying to get rid of your influence in union activities. I really would.
Mr. Gojack. You don't understand the position I took here yester- day.
Mr, Scherer, I thoroughly understand.
Mr. Gojack, I read into this record my affidavits that are on file and I read them twice. My objection on the ground of the first amend- ment was to the entire hearing here. You people have no right, this committee has a right to operate only for the legislative purposes. You are not operating for a legislative purpose now. You are acting as prosecutor, court and jury — and my understanding of the American system — and despite my inadequate education I think I know more about American history and American traditions and tlie Constitution than some people in the room; it is quite different from the way this committee is operating.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 99
I don't think you have the right to ask me these questions about how I think ancffeel, for if you do, the next step will be your hands over my shoulder in tlie polling booth and I don't think we want to come to that.
When I referred to the first amendment I was referring to that fundamental objection to this hearing.
Mr. ]\IouLDER. Your education is not inadequate for the line of work that you are doing. In fact, as I said a while ago, you are plenty sharp and smart.
Mr. SciiERER. Too much so.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us get back to the question.
Mr. Go JACK. I resent your remark, Mr. Scherer. W^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ •''■ was plenty sharp and smart you said "too much so." Is it wrong to try to educate oneself in this country? Is it wrong for a labor union to try to be as smart as management ?
Mr. Moulder. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. You say there was considerable discussion and dif- ference of opinion about the acceptance of the copies of the Communist Daily Worker or Sunday Worker. I find this paragraph in the minutes :
A general discussion was held on this matter at which time opposition was expressed to such a donation and also those in favor of accepting expressed that people can get considerable information from this paper that they cannot get from any other labor or daily paper in the way of labor news.
Is anything false about that statement in the report in the minutest
Mr. GojACK. There was a yevy lengthy discussion, as I recall, and that paragraph describes part of that discussion, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And accurately; doesn't it?
Mr. GojACK. Xot completely. Accurate insofar as it goes, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't the report also accurate in that it stated the letter which was presented was a letter addressed to Brother Gojack from the secretary of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. I am not sure of that because if a letter had been ad- dressed to me in my capacity as HE district council president without some reference to the GE strike, as I recall it, there was something on the envelope and I don't know where it came from, about GE strike committee, something like that. That was my reason for taking my letter along there. As I remember, other people, someone in the local, received a similar letter.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was it ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall. If I remember correctly, it was ad- dressed to the district local.
Mr. T.\VENNf:R. This minute says the document was addressed to Brother Gojack. There isn't a reference to any other person. Was the vote finallv tliat of 10 in favor and 7 against accepting this type of assistance from the Communist Party?
Mr. GojACK. As I recall, I don't remember the exact vote; as I recall the strike strategy committee — I was not a membei- of it — after a very long debate voted to accept the contribution on the basis that they would accept a contribution from anybody, and if the Wall Street
100 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Journal would have sent out a bundle of their papers they would have accepted that.
\h\ Tavenner. Did you at the time, at this meeting, January 16, 1946, know the leaders of the Communist Party in the State of Indi- ana ? That is, the chairman and the State secretary ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't even know what the positions represent, I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not know who the chairman was and who the State secretary was?
Mr. Go JACK. Mr. Tavenner
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to make a direct answer to the question.
Mr. DoNNER. Will you repeat the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Repeat the question, please.
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Mr. GojACK. I am not at all certain who the chairman and secretary was at a given time. I could answer that by saying, and truthfully, that fc
Mr. Scherer. We assume it is truthfully. You are under oath. ■
Mr. Moulder. Proceed. *
Mr. Tavenner. Proceed, please.
]Mr. Moulder. ^\^iat period of time are you referring to as to who tlie chairman and secretary was?
Mr. Tavenner. January 16, 1946.
Mr. GojACK. As I started to say before I was interrupted by that snide remark from Congressman Scherer, I could answer that ques- tion truthfully by saying that I read the press, and the Indiana press often reported accounts of activities of the Communist Party, officials of it would issue releases or get in the press. I might have known at that time who these officials were. But when I start answering those kinds of questions I feel that we are getting to the heart of the funda- mental objective to this committee in its operation here. I don't be- lieve that this committee has a right to ask me who I know, what my political beliefs are.
Mr. Moulder. He did not ask you that question. He just asked you if you knew who was serving in the official capacity, and as you have stated, you may have acquired that knowledge by reading the papers.
Mr. GojACK. I don't think they have a right to ask me if I knew Wendell Wilkie, whom I knew in Indiana. I don't think you have a right to ask me questions relating to any political connections I may have, any friends I may have, I think we are getting into the heart of my dispute with the committee here. I don't think you have a right to go into any of this.
Mr, Moulder. He is not asking you about your political affdiation. He is asking you if you knew who was serving
Mr. GojACK. Here is what he is doing. He is trying to convict me on a guilt -by-association basis, and I don't think this committee has a right to indict me, let alone convict me. I think that is a job for the courts in this land. j
I think here this committee is getting too far afield from what Public Law 601 has laid out for it. You are doing the job of the courts here and I think you are usurping the rights of the court.
COIMMLTNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 101
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ScHERER. There are only two things this committee can do and that is cite 3^011 for contempt if you are guilty of contempt, and sec- ondly, if you would commit perjury or any witness commits perjury, refer the testimony to the Department of Justice. That is all this committee can do. It cannot do anything else. It cannot convict anybody.
Mr. DoNXER. Is the reporter recording the fact that I consulted with my client ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Doxxer. May I object to that, please ?
Mr. Moulder. The record will show your objection. As I under- stand the question, it has nothing to do with your association, political association, or any objection you have raised. The question is merel.y do you know who was serving in that period of time in a certain official capacity. Is that right ?
Mr. Tavex'xer. Yes, sir.
Mr. GojACK. Since Mr. Tavenner has mentioned this name of — what was it — Johnson? I recall knowing from newspapers or discus- sions that name of Johnson as some Communist official in Indiana. I don't know his position and I don't know when he was an official, and don't know the time.
Mr. Scherer. Is that the only way you know Johnson, because you read it in the newspaper? Is that the only way you know Johnson? Is that what you are telling us?
Mr. GojACK. No, that is not the only way.
Mr. Scherer. Tell us how well you knew Johnson.
Mr. GojACK. I didn't know Johnson well.
Mv. Scherer. Or how slightly you knew him. You have left us under the impression at this point that by reading the newspapers you knew that Johnson was chairman of the Communist Party of Indiana and I am asking you if that is the only way that you knew Johnson.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. DoxxER. I want to renew my objection if the record continues to show consultation.
^Ir. Moulder. AVell, also have the record show that the witness has a perfect right to confer and consult with you at any time.
Mr. Doxx-^er. I understand.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mv. GojACK. I want to decline to answer that question on the fol- lowing grounds. It is here where in this area of questioning that I grow fearful of the use of a paid liar like Matusow, a paid liar like Strunk, and a paid lunatic and convicted forger like Cecil Scott and {iny other paid informers that you may have, and because I feel as strongly
Mr. Scherer. Sounds like the article your counsel wrote for the Nation magazine. I remember reading those things in that magazine.
Mr. GojACK. If you will be patient I will give you my next com- ment.
Mr. Scherer. I am very patient.
Mr. Go.TACK. I agree with the Baltimore Sun and Time magazine which said that the Matusow case reminds us that stoolpigeons are as a class to be despised and not to be trusted
Mr. Moulder. Those are the reasons that you
102 COMMUNIST ACTRITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Go JACK. 1 haven't finished my reasons.
Mr. Moulder. You wish to list some more reasons for refusing to answer tlie question?
Mr. GojACK. Yes,
Mr. IMouLDER. How lono- do you think it will take ?
Mr. GojACK. About a half minute.
Mr. IMouLDER. All right.
Mr. (lOJACK. Because I fear the use of such paid informers who as a class are to be despised, I fear to answer that question and therefore I invoke the protection atforded by the first amendment to the United States Constitution and I reiterate my basic objection that the first amendment to the Constitution does not give this committee the right to inquire into any of my beliefs, any of my connections, any ideas I may have.
Mr. ScHERER. ]VIr. Chairman, I ask that you direct tlie witness to answer my question. The first amendment is no basis for refusal to answer tliat question.
Mr. Moulder. Is it your question ?
Mr. ScHERER. My question is
]Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs the witness to answer tlie question propounded by IMr. Scherer. As I understand it, you refuse to an- swer for the reasons stated,
Mr. GojACK, Yes,
Mr. Moulder, Proceed.
Mr. Scherer. Wait a minute. I want to pursue that fuither.
Is it not a fact, Witness, that you knew this man Johnson and had personal contact with him ?
Mr. Go JACK. To save everybody a lot of time here, to this question and to many, many, many questions that Mr. Tavenner can ask me from his fat files, a lot of wliich has been furnished the connnittee by the McCarthy ite lUE-CIO union, some of it stolen material when thugs from tliis union broke into a local union hall in St. Joseph, Mich., and stole material from the files; your committee now has that material, because of the distortions you can place upon that material, you can ask me and you undoubtedly may ask me many, many many questions.
On most, if not all of these questions, I am going to object on the ground that under the first amendment of the Constitution this com- mittee has no right, absolutely no right, to question my beliefs, my political affiliations, what ideas I have, my thoughts.
Mr. Scherer. Are you refusing to answer on the basis of the first amendment ?
Let me ask you this question. Isn't it a fact that you didn't tell the connnittee the truth a few minutes ago when you said you only knew Johnson as the chairman of the Communist Party in Indiana as the result of wliat you read in the newspapers ?
Mr. GojACK. I iiad not finished my earlier answer and I am going to continue to finish if I may.
Mr. Scherer. You are going to answer this question.
Mr. IMouLDER. The Chair directs you to answer the question pro- pounded by Mv. Scherer.
Mr. Go JACK. The answer to that question is the same as my previous unfinished answer,
Mr. Scherer. Do you mean you are going to take tlie first amend- ment in refusing to say whether you told the committee the truth a few minutes ago ? Is that a correct understanding of your answer ^
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 103
]\Ir. GojACK. To any question this committee ])ropounds that I feel might he a trap for a frameiip with tlie use of paid informers like Matusow, paid har Strunk, and the lunatic Cecil Scott and any other paid liars you may have, to any of those questions that I fear might result in my frameup — I will reiterate my basic objection on the ground of the first amendment that this committee has no right to go beyond the legislative investigation field, that if I have done any- thing of a criminal nature that is. a job for the courts to handle. This committee has no right to usurp the power of the courts, that this com- mittee is using this hearing and using these questions in an eti'ort to break a union, as your chairman openly stated, and that this commit- tee has no right to break a union and if the committee had such a right to break a union, tJiat is not authorized by the Public Law 601, if the connnittee had that right under Public Law 601 the first amend- ment to the Constitution would forbid it.
Mr. ScHERER. I understand. Witness, that you are refusing to an- swer the question as to whether you told the truth a few minutes ago when you said the oidy way you knew Johnson was through what you read in the newspapers.
Do I understand you are refusing to answer that question now for the reasons that you have just given ?
Mr. GojACK. You had better check the record. You are getting too anxious.
Mr. ScHEitER. All right. 1 will put it more bluntly then. Isn't it a fact that just a few minutes ago you lied when you said that the •only way you kneAv Johnson was through newspaper accounts?
Mr. GojACJK. You distorted my testimony here, you are distorting it now.
Mr. ScHERER. The record will show if I distorted your testimony.
Mr. GojA<'K. You had better check the record and read it back.
Mr. ScHERER. Will you answer the question?
Mr. (tojaok. I did nothing of the sort a few minutes ago and if you will let me finish my
Mr. SciiERER. 1 ask that you direct the witness to answer my <luestion.
Mr. Moulder. I do not recall the question.
Mr. ScnEJJER. My question was, was it not a fact that he lied a few minutes ago when he told us the oidy way he knew of Johnson as chairman of the Conmumist Party in Indiana
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ScHERER. Was through what he had read in the newspaper.
Mr. Moulder. I recall his answer, and I believe he said he did not lie.
Mr. GojACK. I said that— I said notliing of the sort. He is posing a fabricated question.
Mr, Moulder. He has answered that question by denying it.
Mr. GojACK. Xot only that, but his question distorts my previous testimony. I said nothing of the sort.
Mr. SciiERER. How do you know Johnson, then ?
(The witness conferred' with his counsel.)
Mr. GojACK. I just decline to answer that and I had not finislied my answer.
Mr. SciiERER. I thought you had declined.
Mr. (jo.jack. My further answer is that if Public Law 601 does give this committee the right to break unions, then that resolution is un-
104 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
constitutional and it is unconstitutional further because no one can determine from the boundaries of tliis committee.
Mr. ScHERER. Witnesses have made these arguments a thousand times in the last 2 years. Is it not a fact that you knew Johnson through personal association with him?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Go JACK. I have alreadj^ declined to answer that for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. ScHERER. All right. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who was the State secretary of the Communist Party in 1946 ?
Mr. GojACK. I frankly don't know, but to that question I am going to repeat my basic objection. I don't think you have a right to ask me that question.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to answer the question. Let's keep the record straight. He has no right to object to any question counsel asks.
Mr. Moulder. Do I understand you decline to answer that question for the reasons previously stated? That is the way I interpret it. However, maybe you didn't say that clearly.
Mr. ScHERER. He said ''I object to it. You have no right to ask me the question." He didn't decline to answer on the basis of the first amendment.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer that question.
Mr. Go JACK. Mr. Scherer is again distorting my testimony. What I said was I frankly don't know, but I am going to object to that ques- tion on the fundamental grounds that I have stated here, and that I repeat.
Mr. Moulder. You have no right to object to the question. As I understand, you decline to answer by saying frankly you don't know who the secretary was. Is that so?
Mr. GojACK. I think the record is clear.
Mr. Moulder. We understand you object to all the questions being- propounded here to you during this procedure, but I understand your answer is you do not know who the secretary was.
Mr. GoJACK. I didn't say that.
Mr. Scherer. I ask tliat you direct him to answer the question.
Mr. GoJACK. I think the record will speak for itself on this point.
Mr. Scherer. Who was the secretary of the Communist Party in Indiana at the time asked by Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. GojACK. So that we may have a consistent record here, I will re])eat it. I frankly don't know, but I object to the question and I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Scherer. Don't you know who the secretary was.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Henry Aron, A-r-o-n?
Mr. GojACK. To this and to every other question you ask me along these lines for the reasons I have stated earlier, I don't know what paid liar you have here to do a Matusow job on me.
Mr. Moulder. We do not have any paid liars, neither has the com- mittee ever employed any witness to testify or compensated any wit- ness for his testimony any more than you are going to be other than for your mileage and attendance before the committee.
Mr. GojACK. You had a Matusow who has said quite differently, from what I have read.
Mr. Scherer. We have heard about Matusow from you all day yes-
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 105
terday and all day today. He came from the Communist
Mr. GojACK. I don't know Strunk but I know he is a liar.
Mr. ScHERER. He came from the same Communist Party that you refuse to say under the first amendment whether you were a member of or not.
Mr. GoJACK. When you cite testimony here as the counsel for the committee did yesterday from a so-called underground agent, Strunk, that is so fantastically a lie as that this woman who was 200 miles away ran a strike at Bay City when Bay City is a long way from Detroit, and that the strike was at a guided missile plant where Square D never made guided missiles, and when Congressman Clardy used that paid liar's testimony to try to break that strike.
Mr. ScHERER. We are getting away from the question. The question was did he know this man Aron. He is dancing around. Do you know Aron? That is the only question.
Mr. GojACK. 1 have already declined. Aren't you with us^
Mr. Moulder. On the ground of the first amendment ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir ; for the reasons stated, and all of the funda- mental objections that I have on the ground the first amendment doesn't give you the right to even hold this hearing, let alone ask me these questions.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, in order that the record may be straight on it, this witness has referred several times to the testimony of Strunk as having been read by me and as having indicated that Miss Jacol)s was engaged in strike work at the Square D plant in Bay City, Mich. I did not read that from her testimony at all. That was a state- ment made by Mr. Clardy, one of the committee members at tliat time, as to information that he had. It was not testimony by Mr. Strunk.
Mr. GojACK. Then Congressman Clardy was a liar and I so told him in the telegram when he used that lie to try to break the Square D strike just as this committee is using this hearing to try to wreck a union a St. Joseph, Mich, and Fort Wayne, Ind.
Mr. IMouLDER. I can't understand, Mr. Gojack, why in response to questions where you are afforded the o])portunity of giving an ex- planation or of denying or affirming certain accusations or charges made, instead of giving the explanation or denying it in an intelligent way you make an embittered, violent statement of "Liar" or use some other violent language, which serves no one.
You hold an important, responsible position as a leader of a labor organization representing many, many members and their families and your action and your conduct is a direct reflection upon each of those individuals who are members, as well as the organization you represent. I think you make an unfavorable impression by pursuing that course instead of giving an intelligent explanation.
Mr. Scherer. You are attempting to hide behind the first amend- ment.
Mr. GojACK. Precisely, because I feel so strongly for these people do I take such a stand. I have no fear for myself here. I have no fear for the risk I take from the use of paid informers, as far as T am personally concerned. I do fear for the people who are involved and I will tell you why. Congressman Walter said on the floor of Congress in a speech in which he interfered in the Magnavox election in which he told the people how to vote that if they would get rid of my union
106 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
and get anotlier union, a CIO union, they would get stronger seniority and higher wages and this is not true, because in another Magnavox plant in Paducah, Ky.. where the workei-s did get rid of A. F. of L. union where the lUE-CIO McCarthyite union raided them, they went on strike 7 to 10 weeks and suffered a 9-cent wage cut and people lost their jobs.
A woman was Ih'ed by that company wlio spoke in a meeting in Fort Wayne a couple of weeks ago, and if oin- union siioidd be lost to the workers at Magnavox l)ecause of this hearing, because of this com- mittee's attack on our union, then workers will sufl'er.
There are older women in this Magnavox plant oidy working today because they have a strong UE Local 910 contract. Their wages and seniority and their very jobs are at stake, and I have seen people in this GE plant who liave lost tlieir jobs. I feel deeply for these people^ their security is at stake. I am here fighting for tliem, not for myself. I am here fighting for them.
Mr. ScHERER. We are not interested in your attacks on other unions or washing ditl'erent unions' dirty linen. We are interested in what- ever you know and whatever connection you might liave had with the Comnuinist conspiracy. Tliat is the reason you are here, and you won't tell us about that. You hide behind the first amendment.
Mr. GojACK. I am washing your dirty linen with Matusow, Strunk, and other paid informers. That is the only dirty linen I know of.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the questioning.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, did Mr. Elmer Johnson or Mr. Aron ever appear and address a group of people when you w^ere present ?
Mr. GojACK. To that question and to every other question like it, I repeat my basic objection that this committee has no right to ask me this question, the first amendment to the Constitution prohibits your inquiring into my political beliefs, what meetings I went to. My goodness, if you are allowed
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, we have heard this speech a dozen times.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Gojack, you have no right to object to a question being propounded to you during the proceedings of this hearing. You can decline to answer for legal reasons if you wish to do so. Why don't you give a direct answer, a direct response, rather, by answering the ({uestion or declining to answer instead of objecting to the com- mittee even existing or the act of Congress creating it, and answer the (Hiestions ])ropounde(l by counsel ^
We uncierstand your opposition to the committee, your bitterness against the committee functions. You have clearly ex])ressed yourself along that line, but I don't think you should proceed to make that statement every time you are asked a question.
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Moulder, this goes to the heart of my objections because
Mr. Moulder. Tlien decline to answer for tlie reasons ])reviously stated on the first amendment to the Constitution, as provided by the Hrst amendment to the Constitution if that is your reason.
Mr. Gojack. I will do that, but I w^ould like to finish my reply tO' this one. If this committee can ask me those questions, then you can ask me questions about meetings at which I attended with other trade unionists, A. F. of L. and CIO, Kepublican Labor Club, then some Democratic committee or itself can declare somebody being involved in 20 years of treason.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 107
Mr. ScHERER. We are only asking you about Communist meetings. That is all we are interested in.
Mr. Go JACK. To some people like your friend McCarthy, being active in another political party involves treason, and my point is that this goes to my basic objection. You have no right to ask me the question.
Mr. ScHERER. Direct the witness to answer Mr. Tavenner's question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.
Mr. GojACK. I decline to ansvN'er on the ground previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, referring again to the meeting held of the strike committee on January 16, 1946, 1 hnd this minute :
Biotber Brown dtiring the rtist-ussion asked Bi'otlier Gojiick whether he was a member of the Communist Party or not.
Do you recall that question having been asked you ?
Mr. Gojack. 1 recall a lot of questions being fired ;it that meeting. It was a lengthy discussion.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall that question ?
Mr. Gojack. Yes ; I believe that question was asked me.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you answer it ?
Mr. Gojack. I only recall the question being asked me, now that you have read it. I don't remember the details of answers I gave to questions in 1946. I have been asked many questions in the course of my work.
Mr. Tavenner. Did vou denv it or affirm it, or did vou answer it at all?
Mr. Gojack. Very honestly I don't recall what position I took. In union meetings when the question has been propounded, I have answered that question truthfully to the satisfaction of every mem- bership meeting where it was posed to me. I just don't recall how I })hi'ased the answer, what the answer was, or whether I even answered it. If you will read from the iniinites it miglit refresh my recollec- tion. 1946 is a long time ago.
Mr. Tav-enxer. I will ask you if this refreshes your recollection.
Direct answer was not given and the Chair ruled such a question out of order.
Does that refresh your recollection ?
Mr. Gojack. I just don't recall. As I testified earlier, there was lengthy discussion and debate and as I testified earlier there w^ere many questions answered. I don't recall what my response was. I wouldn't deny that that is the way the (}uestion was handled. I don't have a clear memory of what hai)pened in 194() at that particular meeting.
Mr. Moulder. Do you liave a transcript of the proceedings?
Mr. Tavexnp:r. Yes, sir.
Ml-. ^SIocLDEK. I suggest that you icad tlie questions and answers, and he can deny or affirm them.
Mr. Gojack. Thisw^as a local union meeting.
Mr, Tavexner. These are minutes, not a transcript.
Mr. Moulder. I am sorry.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall having attended a meeting of the international union on August 21, 1947 at 21.5 Sheldon Southeast, Grand Rapids, Midi. ?
Mr. Gojack. Yes.
Mr. Tavenx'er. I think vou understand what niv (juestion is going to be.
108 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. I certainly do, and you are going to get a surprise.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your answer to the question that was asked you at that meeting as to whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. The answer to that question was no, and here again you are using some of the worst type lUE-CIO propaganda.
Mr. ScHERER. You said the answer to that question was no. Were you telling the truth ?
Mr. GojACK. I am going to explain my answer and then get to you. Be patient, will you i I am allowed to explain my answer.
Since you have asked about that meeting I am going to tell you a little bit about it.
Mr, ScHERER. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that he answer this ques- tion and then he can tell about the meeting. My question was, when he answered "No" was he telling the truth at that time ?
Mr. Moulder. That speaks for itself.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, to your question I am going to invoke the first amendment. I want to answer Mr. Tavenner's question.
Mr. Scherer. Are you invoking the first amendment as to whether or not you told the truth when you answered no in 1946 to the question as to whether you were a Communist ?
Mr. GojACK. Because I don't want to cooperate wnth you in any way in your union busting, and with your use of paid informers, and for that reason especially I am going to invoke the first amendment to your particular question. I am going to explain my answer.
Mr. Scherer. Just a minute. I understand you won't even tell us now whether you w^ere telling the truth when you told the union that you were not a member of the Communist Party, will you ? You were not under oath at that time. So I can only infer that you lied when you told the union that you were not a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. GojACK. If you will be patient I will explain to you why a wit- ness before this committee has to use — and I have sympathy for those innocent people — -the fifth amendment which I am not using here today and did not use yesterday.
Mr. Scherer. You use the first.
Mr, GojACK. I am going to explain why that is necessary.
Mr. Moulder. What innocent people are you referring to ?
Mr. GojACK. The many people who come before McCarthy and you people and have to invoke this protection of the Constitution to avoid a frameup by paid informers like Matusow, Strunk, and others.
Mr. Moulder. I would like to know who in particular, what person you refer to. For example, would you refer to Alger Hiss as being one of those innocent people before this committee ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know the gentleman. Some General Electric officials know him better than I do. I don't know him,
Mr. Moulder. In other words, all people and all persons who have ever appeared before this committee you defend as being innocent people. Do I understand you to include every one as being innocent ?
Mr. GojACK, I am about to explain why this particular question makes it clear people have to resort to the protection of the Constitu- tion,
Mr. Moulder, What particular instance do you have in mind when you refer to innocent people ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND,, AREA 109
Mr. GojACK. If you let me make my explanation I may think of some. In this meeting there were about TOO people. It was a mem- bership meeting of the Lear, Inc., local union. One Carlton Sanford, who was out to bust that union and who succeeded and who was later paid off with a job in the personnel department was using the Mc- Carthy approach to wreck that union. He had a tape recorder at this
meeting. . nn. - ^
]Mr. ScHERER. Do you mean union members and union omcials use McCarthy methods ?
Mr. GojACK. This was a paid agent of the Lear Co., later rewarded with a job in the office.
Mr. ScHERER. In 1947 ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, a paid agent for the company. The companies are mostly responsible for you people being in the business.
Mr. ScHEKER. Was Joe in the Senate at that time ?
Mr. GojACK. General Motors brought Dies to my hometown in 1940 to keep us from organizing the union. There were 700 people at this meeting and I was asked the $64 question. I answered it "No." Then someone else asked a question. Yes, but you act like a Communist, or something like that, the usual McCarthy approach. You sound like one.
Mr. Moulder. I am sorry to interrupt. At the time you answered that question "No," were you then a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. GojACK. To that question and to all questions relating to my political beliefs and affiliations I am going to state the objection that I have elaborated earlier and stand on that. If you will let me finish the explanation why people have to use these amendments I will ex-» plain why. This is a good example of why it is necessary for a person like myself to do this.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the witness apparently is determined to make a speech here which is not responsive at all because he didn't answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. That is correct.
Mr. GojACK. It explains my answer.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, do you have any other questions ?
Mr. GojACK. Then when I was asked another question I said "Well, if fighting for higher wages, better conditions, and so forth, if that makes me a Communist, then I am a Communist and so are thousands of other people."
Mr. Moulder. Of course that doesn't make you a Communist and no one has made that assertion.
Mr. GojACK. Will you let me finish my explanation, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Moulder. That isn't an explanation.
Mr. GojACK. I am explaining why people have to use the Constitu- tion.
Mr. Moulder. You are praising yourself about the good work you claim to have done for the union.
Mr. GojACK. I am explaining why it is necessary for innocent people to use the protection of the Constitution. Sanford had the tape record- ing, he edited just like Matusow, edited the tapes of the Dayton hear- ings. The tape was edited then read to 23 people in another room who heard me say "Yes, I am a Communist and proud of it," but they didn't play the other part of the tape which said "So are thousands of other
110 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Americans," or the preceding part of the tape which said "If fighting for higher wages and better conditions, and so forth, makes me a Communist, then I am a Communist."
That tape was edited. I made the statement that if fighting for higher wages, better conditions, security for the people, that is com- munism, then I must be a Communist and so are thousands of other Americans.
Mr. Moulder. Did you also make a statement that you were a Com- munist and proud of it ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall my exact words but the tape was edited and played to the people and they signed an affidavit. Since 1949 the lUE-CIO has been peddling that dishonest and forged piece of alleged proof, and if that is the kind of material your committee uses then I am quite clear in my mind why many, many innocent people have to invoke the proper text of the United States Constitution before this committee.
Mr. ScHERER. I just think the CIO was trying to get rid of Com- munist-dominated unions and Communist leadership. I think the CIO is to be complimented.
Mr. GojACK. This was in the year 1947 when Lear, Inc., was trying to wreck a union and they succeeded.
Mr. Moulder. We could go on with this forever. Mr. Tavemier, do yovi have further questions ?
Mr. Tavenner. He refused to answer the question that I asked him. My question was whether it was true that he was not a member of the Communist Party. Do you want to have a recess or go straight ahead?
Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 30 this afternoon.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 30 a. m. the committee was recessed, to recon- vene at 1 : 30 p. m. the same day.)
afternoon session
Committee members present : Eepresentatives Morgan M. Moulder (chairman) and Gordon H. Scherer.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, I understand that you have been one of the vice presidents of the UE since about 1943; is that correct?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not your parent organiza- tion, the UE, is affiliated with the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions.
Mr. GojACK. I have no recollection of that, I don't believe so, sir. It is not affiliated with any international union body other than the fact that ours is by constitution an international union that encom- pases local unions in Canada and the United States. It is the only international body that our union is affiliated with.
Mr. Tavenner. Aren't you familiar with the World Federation of Trade Unions ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA HI
Mr. Go JACK. I have read about both these two federations of unions, internationally related.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the UE affiliated in any manner with the World Federation of Trade Unions ?
Mr. GojACK. No, sir.
Mr. Ta^'enxer. Does your union receive the bulletin which is issued by the World Federation of Trade Unions, a bulletin which bears the name of World Trade Union News ?
(Representative Clyde Doyle entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Moulder. The record will show the presence of Mr. Doyle, of California, member of the subcommittee.
Mr. Doyle. May the record also show that my absence from this h earing, ^ was occasioned by reason of my being personally present before the Rules Committee of the House of Representatives on an- other iriatter. Thank you.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Tavenner, I am not familiar with that precise publicc tion and I don't know what our international union subscribes to. I ]:now in our district office we get considerable unsolicited mail from many union organizations and from organizations unrelated to trade inions, but who seem to put trade unions on their mailing lists.
Mr. Tavexner. Are you acquainted, Mr. Gojack, with a person by the name of Irving Charles Belson, B-e-1-s-o-n ?
Mr. ' tojack. I don't recall such a person.
Mr. Tavexxek. An investigation which the committee has con- ducted discloses that in or about April of 1951, 18 American trade unionists traveled in Europe under passports issued in most instances for travel to France for business and pleasure. These individuals after arriving in France immediately started for the Soviet Union where they participated in May Day celebrations held in that country and many of them returned to the United States and engaged in rather extenfiive propaganda activities.
After the return of these people to the United States the State Department picked up their passports.
Now, that was in April 1951. In late June or July of the same year 10 more trade unionists departed from the United States under Ameri- can passports claiming they were going abroad to various countries of Western Europe as tourists when actually they went to the Soviet Union.
Investigations further disclose that funds for passage were handled by an organization known as the American Committee to Survey Trade Union Conditions in Europe, which was managed and oper- ated by the person I mentioned. Mr. Belson.
Have you had any association of any kind with the committee known as the American Committee to Survey Trade Union Conditions in Europe, or any representative of it ?
Mr. Gojack. Not to my knowledge and recollection, sir.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Chairman, our investigation regarding these trips behind the Iron Curtain further discloses that a number of those persons who obtained their passports from the State Department to travel in Europe did not advise the State Department in their applica- tions of any intention of traveling beliind the Iron Curtain or in the Soviet Union.
112 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, ESTD., AREA
On the contrary, their applications showed, I believe without excep- tion, that they proposed to travel in various countries in Europe for business, or for study, or for pleasure purposes.
When investigations were made of what was alleged to be fraudu- lent procurement of passports, many of these individuals, Mr. Chair- man, explained that at the time they prepared their applications for passport they had no intention of going into the Soviet Union, but that after they arrived in Paris they met representatives of the Metal Workers Trade Union ^ in Paris and that it was that organization which invited them to travel to the Soviet Union at their expense.
Due to this device, none of those persons have been prosecuted for procuring fraudulent passports or passports fraudulently.
Now, I want to ask this witness whether he filed an application for a passport in 1951.
Mr. Go JACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to filing your application for passport did you have any knowledge of the Metal Workers Trade Union in Paris ?
Mr. Go.TACK. I don't know anybody in Paris, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you whether you knew anyone indi- vidually, but had you any knowledge of that organization in Paris prior to your filing your application ?
Mr. Go JACK. No, I have no knowledge, I have a fragmentary knowledge of the French trade union movement, reading about the struggles and primarily reading the Labor Press, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, organs of that sort.
I may have somewhere read some such organization conducted a strike.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you had any connection with that organiza- tion either directly or indirectly ?
Mr. Gojack. Well, if you call, if you include as an indirect con- nection the possibility that some of our locals might have received a publication — as I testified earlier, we get reams of unsolicited publi- cations, most of which go in the wastebasket. Somewhere along the line some organization might have sent a circular or something like that. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an application for passport bearing date of December 12, 1951, and ask you whether or not that is a photostatic copy of an application filed by you.
Mr. Gojack. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose of your desire to travel to Europe ?
Mr. Gojack. To take a vacation that was long overdue.
Mr, Tavenner. In what countries ?
Mr. Gojack. France, Italy, and, as I indicated on the passport, time permitting, Switzerland.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any intention of traveling behind the Iron Curtain ?
Mr. Gojack. No, I had no intention, I had no plans to. I am sure I must have some distant relative there, for as my application points out my parents were born in Hungary, a part of Hungary that is now a part of lioumania, and I had hoped that some day conditions would be such in this world that I could visit these cousins and relatives of
This is a reference to Seine Metal Workers Union.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 113
Mr. Tavenner. Did you plan to do that on this trip ?
Mr, GojACK. No, because it was about this time that you had this case involving this fellow from ITT ^ and travel was cut off to Hun- gary and I was aware of that. There was no chance of any American citizen traveling to Hungary at that time. I distinctly remember the case.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you approached by any group in this country to interest you in taking that trip to Europe ?
Mr. GojACK. No, I was approached by no group. I was aware that many trade unionists were going, had gone to Europe, officers of our own union had gone. As a matter of fact, the State Depart- ment had arranged trips for a number of people to go to Europe. I was desirous of getting there too, if I could.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know if any of these people applied to the State Department to go to the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't know what these people did in their applica- tions.
Mr. Taat:nner. Did they go to the Soviet Union and particpiate in May Day celebrations of 1951, any of them ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't know anything about that.
'Mv. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the source of the proposed funds were for the taking of this trip by you ?
Mr. (tojack. I had planned to take a loan on my automobile to finance that trip. Having reached the point where I finally got my car paid for.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss the taking of this proposed trip with representatives from any travel organization ?
Mr. Gojack. I checked for information to some travel agencies; I got folders. I remember calling some of the airlines when I was in New York on a trip for our union attending the general executive board meeting. I remember checking the Air Force and learning that such lines as Air France you can do much better than some of the otlier lines. But I did very little except make a cursory check to see what was involved in costs.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss your proposed itinerary with any individual, outside of your own family ?
Mr. Gojack. Yes, I remember discussing the proposed trip with the members of our union. I remember discussing it with the mem- bers of my district executive board to make arrangements for time off or leave of absence if that was necessary if my vacation time would not cover the time needed for travel. I had 2 weeks vacation coming a7id I posed the question whether or not I could have 2 weeks, I was thinking in terms of 2 or 3 weeks. May I ask, is it a crime to travel these days ?
Mr. Tavettner. Not at all. We want to find out the purpose of your trip.
Mr. SciiERER. What was the year of that trip, counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. December 1951 was the date of the filing of the application and the application contains the statement that the ap- proximate date of departure is as soon as possible after the holidays.
Mr. Sciierer. Does it indicate in what countries he wanted to travel ?
1 Reference to Robert Vogeler, International Telephone & Telegraph Co. official imprisoned by the Hungarian Government in 1949.
114 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. He proposed to travel in France and Italy and, time permitting, Switzerland. Whsit was the purpose of the trip ?
Mr. GojACK. Vacation.
Mr. Tavenner. It so states on the application. It is noticed that the signature of the identifying witness is Julia Jacobs. Her address has been mentioned several times. Actually that was not where she lived. You have stated she was a guest there, merely, at that time. Her residence was at another place in Indiana, wasn't it ?
Mr. GojACK. No. Her residence was not in another place at that time and since the question was raised here yesterday, I have had a chance to clearly establish what was involved in this address business. It so happened, I welcome the opportunity to clear the record so that we need have no further handling of this matter that will give the newspapers and radio the opportunity'' to slur my family.
I was involved in some work in Michigan and Miss Jacobs was about to take an assignment in Greenville, Tenn. The matter was not yet worked out, she had not, final arrangements for her worlv there were not clear. She came by and at the request of my wife and I, agreed to remain at our place until something could be worked out.
In the meantime her assignment was worked out and during this period while I was working in Michigan I had to, I wanted to make application for this passport in Fort Wayne and I needed a witness who knew me over a period of time that could sign the necessary form. She being at our home at the time, she was good enough to go along and witness my application for passport.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the passport granted ?
Mr. GojACK. No, the passport was not granted. Mrs. Shipley turned me down.
Mr. Scherer. Do you know why you were turned down ?
Mr. GojACK. Mrs. Shipley said in her answer, the usual form le^^ter, that a lot of people have received besides me — I understand a judge here has had the same trouble. The form letter said after careful consideration of my request "The Department is of the opinion tiiat your proposed travel would not be in the best interests of the United States."
I tried to find out why but it was never explained to me why my travel would have not been in the best interests of the United States.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. I hand you a letter under date of February 4, 1952, and ask you whether or not you wrote that letter to Mrs. Shipley, inquiring as to the reasons why you were not granted a passport.
Mr. GojACK. I wrote this letter as the letter itself clearly indicates because when I reported to my executive board that I was denied a passport, by unanimous vote my executive board directed me to lodge a vicious protest with her department on the matter of this passport.
As I indicated in the letter before relaying to her the sentiments expressed by those who voted this protest, I asked her to advise me on what grounds she arrived at the opinion that my proposed travel would not be in the best interests of the United States.
Mr. Scherer. If this was a pleasure trip, why was your union inter- ested in the rejection of your application for passport?
Mr. GojACK. Because I reported it to them since everything I do I discuss with my union. You see I treat my union differently than I treat, for example, this committee here. I don't mind answering to
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 115
my union membership to my political beliefs and affiliations as I have done repeatedly.
Mr. ScHERER. You mean to tell us that is the only reason you re- ported to the union, because of their interest in you and your interest in the union, when this was nothing but a pleasure trip ?
Mr. GojACK. I even make arrangements with my union when I leave my duties for pleasure so that arrangements can be made to cover my work in my office. We operate on that basis. I am answerable to my union for what I do.
Mr. ScHERER. The union interceded on your behalf so you could take this pleasure trip ?
Mr. GojACK. The union asked me to lodge a protest and try to deter- mine why my passport was denied and I did just that.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive an answer from Mrs. Shipley?
Mr. Gojack. As I recall, I was informed that I might look into the matter further.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine that copy and state whether or not you received the original in answer to your letter of February 4, 1952?
Mr. Go JACK. Yes ; I recall receiving this.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read that, please.
Mr. GojACK (reading) :
In reply to our letter of February 4, you are informed that the decision of the Department declining to grant you a passport was due to its inability to obtain a security clearance in your name.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you report that to your union ?
Mr. GojACK. Not only that, I reported the further conference I had with someone in the Passport Division.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you report to your union that they had been unable to get a security clearance for you ?
(The witness conferred witli his counsel.)
Mr. Gojack. As a matter of fact, I don't recall receiving this letter. I, as I recall it, I was given an appointment with somebody in the Passport Division, and I fulfilled that appointment. I contacted them and had a conference with somebody in the Security Division or security officer in the Passport Division.
Mr. Tavenner. Copy of that letter is dated February 19, is it not?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Wliat year?
Mr. Tavenner. 1952.
Mr. GojACK. I am not denying it. I don't recall it.
Mr. Tavenner. Is this a copy of your letter of February 25, 1952, to Mrs. Shiplev in which you acknowledge receipt of that very letter of February 19?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, now that I see my letter I recall receipt of the letter, I acknowledge it, and I asked her whether the refusal, whether the decision of her Department refusing my passport was due to in- ability to obtain a security clearance, that it cannot, if this is still a free country, be accepted at face value and I asked her to please ex- plain from whom her Department requires a security clearance to act on passport applications and I asked her to explain why a security clearance was denied in my case. I also asked her to explain what right of appeal I have from such a dictatorial, unexplained decision and then I asked her to explain how and when our old tradition of
116 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
innocence until proven guilty has been changed by whomever is re- sponsible for my application in this case. In short, I am puzzled and shocked to find myself involved in a situation reminiscent of Hitler Germany and I would appreciate a complete and fair explanation from her on the questions posed above.
Mr. Tavenner. Going back to my former question that you have not answered, did you advise your local union of the receipt of the letter of February 19 that you had been denied a passport because they were unable to get a security clearance for you?
Mr, GojACK, As I testified earlier, I reported to my union not only on all the correspondence held on this, but with a conference I held with some one in the Passport Division.
Mr. Tavenner. You have not heretofore testified that you reported on this letter. You said you reported on the first letter which you received. Now, I am asking you whether you reported about the letter of February 19 which says that you were denied a passport because of the inability to secure a security clearance for you. Did you advise your union of that?
Mr. GojACK. At the next meeting of my district board, if I remem- ber correctly, which was held in March the following year, we met quarterly, I reported and I am certain that I discussed it with indi- vidual members of the board, as I came across them in the course of my work, that I had this further correspondence with someone in the State Department and by that, somewhere along the line I had given up the idea altogether since I liad passed the period that I would have been able to have taken my vacation,
Mr. Tavenner. Did you advise those members of your executive board that you had been denied a passjDort because you couldn't get a security clearance?
Mr. GojACK. Well, I still don't know at this point and I didn't know then that the question of security clearance was involved in travel,
Mr. Tavenner. You knew it by that letter of February 19 which specifically said that you couldn't be granted a passport because they couldn't get security clearance for you.
Did you advise the members of your executive board that you couldn't get a security clearance?
Mr. Go JACK. I reported that I was turned down because the State Department obviously didn't want me to travel. I gave other reasons why I felt they came to this conclusion.
Mr, Tavenner, Did you tell them why they wouldn't give you the security clearance ?
Mr. Go JACK. I told them why I thought tliey turned me down.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. What were the reasons you stated ?
Mr. GojACK. I thought it was because I had been on record in the State of Indiana and Slichigan in speeches before union bodies as a critic of the Marshall plan. I felt as some later trade unionist came to learn, that this plan made the rich richer and the poor poorer, as one CIO person expressed it.
We discussed it at conventions and we were critical of it, I felt that that might have had sometliing to do with it.
Mr. SciiERER. Mr. Witness, now you have told us the reasons why you thought the State Department turned down your application. Did you ever tell the members of the union the reason the State De- partment gave you for turning down your application ?
COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 117
Mr. GojACK. They never g-ave nie any i-eason, sir.
(Representative Francis E. Walter entered the hearing- room.)
Mr. SciiERER. Yes; they did. In their letter to you, the State De- partment informed you that your application was turned down because they couldn't get security clearance. I am asking you whether you reported that reason to the members of your union?
Mr. Go JACK. That was no reason.
Mr. ScHERER. Whether it was a reason or not, did you ever report that fact to the members of your union ?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, I have previously testified that I reported on what correspondence I had with someone in the State Department.
Mr. SciiERER. I ask you, Mr. Chairman, to direct the witness to an- swer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is being evasive. The Chair directs you to make a direct answer in response to his question.
Mr. GojACK. On that specific letter ?
Mr. jSIoulder. He asked you whether or not you reported to mem- bers of your union or executive board that you were turned down on jour application for passport for the reason that you couldn't get se- curity clearance.
Mr. GojACK. Yes ; I reported that.
Mr. Doyle. I notice, Mr. Go jack, in answer to our counsel's ques- tion, you said "I discussed it with individual members of the board." Do you remember that i
Mr. GojxVCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. In my thinking that is quite different than you dis- cussing the matter with the board in session.
Did you ever report the fact that you had been denied a security clearance with the board as such? I am not talking about individual members outside of the board meeting. You see clearly what I want to know, don't you ?
Mr. Go JACK. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. There is quite a difference, is there not ?
Mr. Go JACK. Xot the way you put it, sir. I did both for this reason, sir. Our board meets only every 3 months and when circumstances come up in the course of the interim period I frequently discuss matters with members of the board with whom I come in contact. For exam- ple, in Fort Wayne there happened to be a number of board members in that area. I consult with them and keep them posted on develop- ments more frequently than I did board members, let's say, who were in Michigan or in areas that I did not travel too frequently.
Mr. Doyle. I can understand that. That is practical. But now will you answer my question? At the first board meeting, official board meeting or at any board meeting after you received this letter stating that you couldn't get a security clearance, did you officially notify, as the general vice president of that organization, the fact that you had received this letter and that they had denied you a security clear- ance ; or did you tell the board as you stated a few minutes ago what you thonght they had turned you down for? There is quite a dif- ference.
Mr. Ctojack. Mr. Doyle, I distinctly recall reporting to you a subse- quent board meeting, I can't fix the date, that I was turned down, I reported on the correspondence, as I have testified repeatedly I even reported on the personal conference I had with someone here in Wash-
118 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
ington on it and that I had given up the project because by that time the opportunity for going on vacation was lost. The reason I asked for the api^lication to be granted immediately after the holidays was that tlie month of January happens to be a good month to be away. Contracts don't come up until spring and by the time of the next board meeting in INIarch this was a dead issue already. I couldn't have gone if I had gotten the passport.
Mr. Doyle. When you reported to the board your correspondence denying you a security clearance, did you officially thus inform the board, and what did the board do, if anything; what official action did tliey take if any? I mean as the board, not individually.
Mr. GojACK. I asked the board to do nothing for me in my behalf. This was a personal matter. When I was denied the passport applica- tion I felt obligated to report that to the board, let them know I wasn't goino; to go on the trip as I had discussed I would be going.
After that it was a dead issue as far as I was concerned because had the State Department reversed itself I could not have gone.
Mr. Doyle. There is one further statement. I was impressed yes- terday, Mr. Go jack, with your effort to make it clear to this commit- tee that everything you did really was part of the union ; the union was so much a part of you that there was hardly anything you could do that wouldn't involve the union. That is the impression I received yesterday from your wording.
Isn't that what you wanted us to feel about you, that you were so much in earnest and so much the leader of this group of men that nothing could happen to you or to the union that wouldn't hurt both of you ?
if that was your statement yesterday — I think the transcript will show that is what you told us yesterday — you must have felt that when the State Department denied you a security clearance it hurt the repu- tation of the union. Didn't that hurt the reputation of the union in your judgment, that the general manager, general vice president should be denied security clearance involving the security of your nation?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I did not consider it as such and as I told a num- ber of people, that it is obvious that the State Department only wants those people to travel abroad who will parrot the State Department line at the time and I mentioned that others were denied passports. I remember this fellow in California, this Doctor Pauley, I remember using his name to show our members other people were denied pass- ports and this person
Mr. Doyle. Other people were not the general vice president of your union.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, if I may further explain, if I — while all you say about your understanding that my work is such an integral part of the union is absolutely true. If I took the time in our district board meetings or district conventions just to relate the smears and attacks on our union and myself that occurred in the 3 months since we last met, we would never have time to get down to the business of higher wages and better contracts because we are constantly under attack.
Mr. DoYLE. This, sir, was not a smear. This was an official commu- nication from your own Government to you regarding your taking leave from your union as general vice president to go abroad. I think
COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, ESTD., AREA ] 19
]Mr. Gojack, there is quite a difference. I frankly am surprised that you, in view of your testimony yesterday, felt you were able to sc separate yourself from your own union that you didn't think it was a matter that affected the representation of your union.
Mr. Go JACK. Gosh, Mr. Doyle, if you could read our Fort Wayne News Sentinel on what they said about the State Department in that same period, you wouldn't raise the question. They said far worse than I ever have about the State Department.
Mr. Doyle. I have read some terrible attacks against our Govern- ment and against our State Department from unions, not many of them.
Mr. GojACK. I am speaking of a Kepublican newspaper in my home- town.
Mr. Moulder. I make reference to that part of your testimony con- cerning your activities, speaking in conventions and meetings in op- position to the Marshall plan. You stated that in j^our opinion it made the rich richer and the poor poorer, or something of that sort. Were you opposing the Marshall plan for the reason that you believed it was not being administered in a proper manner, or were you opposed to the overall plan which was the same line usecl by the Communists and Soviet Russia in opposing the Marshall plan ?
Mr, GojACK. I spoke at a number of our meetings about the ad- ministration of the plan because I had garnered a file at least fatter than the file Mr. Tavenner has on me here, from the New York Times and Wall Street Journal and various newspapers about the abuses of this plan, and I constantly referred to it. When called upon to explain by people who asked, "Well, why are you differing with the CIO on this policy, why don't you" — as a matter of fact, I was forced to part company with the Indiana State CIO over this issue. They asked me to go on record that I had to support Truman and I had to support the Marshall plan or get out of the State CIO. I thought this was political dictation. I accumulated these files and referred to a lot of these abuses, the way we sent tobacco and cigarettes and mothballs and Coca-Cola. We sent a lot of cola over there when they had heavy stockpiles. There was so nnich dishonesty we paid Marshall plan money to pay a detective agency to look into it.
Mr. Moulder. Was not the general objective of the Marshall plan to prevent spread of communism and help the laboring people in the countries, as well as to aid labor in this country which created em- ployment here ?
Mr. GojACK. When General Marshall enunciated his plan at the Boston CIO convention in 1947, I stood up with every other delegate and I applauded it, and I thought it was wonderful, because I was in favor of any plan that would feed the hungry and clothe the nakecl, I was for it.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know whether or not the Communist Party organization in this country was opposed to the Marshall plan at that time? ^
Mr. GojACK. No, I have no idea of that.
Mr. Tavenxer. Don't you know it wasn't until the meeting of the Commform that the Communist Party line changed and from that ininute on the Communists in this country opposed the Marshall plan ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't know anything about that, sir.
120 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. ScHERER. Maybe we can find out from a few questions I am go- ing to ask just why the State Department refused to grant the witness security clearance, and perhaps why he opposed the Marshall plan.
Do you know George Arnold of Peru, Ind. ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall.
Mr. ScHERER. He is the manager of the Dewey Shepherd Boiler Co. of Peru, Ind.
Mr. GojACK. Now that you mention Dewey Shepherd I know George Arnold, I know of him. He broke our union.
Mr. Doyle. He did what ?
Mr. GojACK. He broke our union at Dewey Shepherd Boiler Co.
Mr. Sciierer. Is it not a fact that you told Mr. George Arnold, and I quote :
If Russia controlled the United States, conditions here would certainly be better.
Mr. GojACK. That is a ridiculous lie.
Mr. Scherer. Did you say anything like that to him ?
Mr. GojACK. Nothing at all. George Arnold is about as sane as this lunatic Cecil Scott, especially on the question of unionism and this sort of business. In negotiations with him he raised fantastic charges that because we wanted a nickel an hour raise, we were try- ing to overthrow the Government. He would say crazy things like you are relating there, in negotiations.
Mr. Scherer. You say now that he said
Mr. GojACK. No, I am not saying what he said
Mr. Scherer. If Russia controlled the United States, things would be better ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall what he said. All I know is that he was a screwball employer who thought that every unionist was an agent of Moscow. He wasn't a sane person actually on this question.
Mr. Scherer. Do you deny that you ever made that statement?
Mr. GojACK. Oh, absolutely.
Mr. Doyle. I think in Mr. Gojack's letter back to the State Depart- ment he asked what were his rights of appeal. I think that was in the letter.
Mr. GojACK. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever prosecute your right of appeal from the ruling of the State Department that you were a security risk? If you did not, why did you not ?
Mr. GojACK. I didn't sir, for the reason that someone who had a conference with me in the Passport Division who was introduced to me as the security officer there — I don't recall his name — told me that there was no right of appeal ; that the Secretary of State by law could decide this without even giving any reasons. This gentleman would not even tell me why my security clearance was denied.
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever done anything since the receipt of that letter to ascertain or clear up the matter of your security? If so, what have you done ?
Mr. GojACK. I did nothing, sir, because this person informed me that there was nothing that I could do ; that there was no recourse to law or anything.
Mr. Doyle. You have done nothing from that date to this, have you ?
Mr. GojACK. No. It is a dead issue as far as I am concerned.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 121
Mr. Doyle. I should think any man's reputation or any union's reputation would be a very live issue. If the chief administrative officer or executive could not get a security clearance, I would not think that was a dead issue. I think it would be a very live issvie if it were me. Frankly, I am surprised that you consider it dead. I think it would be very much alive from the standpoint of your reputation and your standing in the country and with your union. I should think a patriotic labor union would not tolerate their executive officer being unable to get security clearance involving the safety of our own Nation. That worries me.
Mr. GojACK. It worries me, Mr. Doyle, that this committee by this liearing is helping a rival union which is headed by two security risks. You are not excited about that at all.
Mr. Doyle. I am worried if any head of any union in my Nation is a security risk. I want to make that clear to you.
Mr. ScHERER. Who are the two security risks to whom you refer?
Mr. GojACK. I read their names in the record this morning, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Are they in the record ?
Mr. GojACK. Let me say that my membership, I think, votes for me and supports me based on what I do.
Mr. Scherer. And what they do not know about 3- ou ?
Mr. GojACK. And not what someone here in Washington might say about me. I think that the bulk of our membership happens to be a little more sane on this question of loyalty than some of the people here in Washington. I say that in all sincerity, because I remember reading in the paper just the other day that they are revising the security program because of some abuses.
Mr. Doyle. How many members are there in your union of which you are the head, how many hundred members, approximately?
Mr. GojACK. Some thousands, sir.
Mr, Doyle. Approximately how many thousand ?
Mr. GojACK. Well, on the question of my union membership, sir, the figures of my union membership — I think this again goes to ques- tions which are outside the province of this committee. I am going to decline to answer that question
Mr. Doyle. If you have any objection, I withdraw it.
Mr. GojACK (continuing). For the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, I understood you to say that your meet- ings of the executive board were quarterly. Am I correct in that?
Mr. Go JACK. Yes, with the further explanation that upon occasion, special meetings might have been called at times.
Mr. Tavexxer. When was this first meeting held at which you say you talked Avith them about the matter of the refusal or denial of your passport ?
Mr. Go JACK. May I see this document ?
(Document passed to the witness.)
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall the exact dates. This last communica- tion to Mrs. Shipley was February 25. It was after that time that I had the conference here. Whether or not that was before our March meeting or afterwards, I just don't recall.
Mr. Tavexner. On what date in March was your meeting held?
Mr. Gojack. Usually the last of March, but I don't recall whether I had the meeting with the person in the Passport Division here in
122 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
March or in April. I just don't recall. I would have to check the records back home.
Mr. Tavenxer. But your meeting was in March?
Mr. Go JACK. The first meeting would have been in March ; yes, sir.
Mr. Tavexner. How long after that would it have been until you held your next meeting ?
Mr. GojACK. The following June, sir.
Mr. Tavexner. The last letter which we discussed here was your letter of February 25 to Mrs. Shipley. Did you receive a reply to that letter ?
Mr. GojACK. I recall receiving some word from them about the possibility of speaking to someone. I don't remember whether it was a letter or what.
Mr. Tavexner. I hand you a letter of March 20, 1952, in reply to that letter. Will you read it into the record, please ?
Mr. GojACK (reading).
The Department has received your letter of February 25, 1952, with further reference to the Department's decision declining to furnish you with passport facilities. I am unable to elaborate on the information set forth in the Depart- ment's letter of February 19, 1952, but if you desire to call at the Department an officer thereof will discuss your case with you in as much detail as is per- mitted under the security regulations. If you desire to submit any material in connection with a request for the reconsideration of your case the question of your membership or nonmembership in organizations listed as Communistic or subversive by the Attorney General would be pertinent.
Mr. Tavenxer. Wasn't that a plain indication to you that your difficulty arose out of your activity in organizations listed by the Attorney General as Communist, and weren't you given an opportu- nity to refute it if it was not true ?
Mr. Go JACK. I took advantage of the invitation to discuss this with someone, to try to get some more details. I was not aware that the measuring stick was the Attorney General's growing list, and I am fully aware that in the course of my years of activity in the union, I have participated in work in behalf of our membership and people generally, which has later become suspect, has been placed on this growing list.
Mr. Moulder. It is a fact, then, the reason you were not cleared for security was because of the State Department's investigation and the decision that you were a Communist?
Mr. GojACK. No. I was never given that understanding, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Well, were you a Communist at that time ?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, to that question and to every other ques- tion dealing with my political beliefs or affiliations, I am going to decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavexner. Did you report to your executive group what this letter said about your privilege of furnishing the State Department with further information regarding your membership or nonmember- ship in organizations listed as communistic or subversive by the At- torney General ? You didn't tell them that, did you ?
Mr. GojACK. As I recall, I explained to the board — as a matter of fact, to a district convention, a full council meeting — what the difficul- ties were with the passport, and that this was a dead issue at that time, but that people couldn't get a passport if they had signed peti- tions
COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 123
Mr. Tavenner. I am not talking about people. We are talking about you. Did you report that you were denied a passport because you were on the Attorney General's list of Communist or subversive organizations ?
Mr. GojACK. I did so report to my council, and on repeated occasions I reported to my union membership my activities, whether they be for peace, whether they be for civil rights. I happen to be a strong believer in civil rights, and I have supported many unpopular causes.
Mr. Tavenner. All right, one of the organizations on the Attorney General's list is the Communist Party. Did you advise your members that you were not a member of the Communist Party or that you were a member ?
Mr. GojACK. As I said here earlier this morning, sir, I treat my relationship with my union members differently than I do this committee.
Mr, Tavenner. Just answer the question. Did you report that to your executive board, or not ?
Mr. GojACK. Oh, on a number of occasions, not just my executive board but at membership meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Let's talk about the executive board. That is what we are asking now. Did you report to them that you were denied a passport and that you either were or were not a member of the Com- munist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. No one on that executive board ever asked me that question. I never thought of it.
Mr. Tavenner. You never told them ?
Mr, GojACK. The thought never occurred to me that I have to answer to my board on that. They know me for what I am, I have answered the question specifically, as I testified here this morning, when posed the question by various members of our union. I felt free to answer the question and to deny membership". I treat the question of my union differently^ than I do my relationship to this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you the fact in a particular instance, and it does not require a general answer. This is directed to a special matter. Did 3'ou furnish the State Department with any informa- tion or material bearing on your membership or nonmembership in organizations listed by the Attorney General as Communist or sub-
versive
Mr. GojACK. I don't know how many organizations are on that list.
Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Party is one of them. Did you furnish any information regarding it?
Mr. Go JACK. I recall telling this security officer, or whoever he was, in the State Department that I signed a non-Communist affidavit in 1949 and 1950.
Mr. Scherer. When you signed that affidavit, were you telling the truth?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, yesterday
Mr. Scherer. Not yesterday ; today, now.
Mr. GojACK. On this stand, I read into the record while under oath that I signed and notarized that affidavit.
Mr. Scherer. I remember that very well. My specific question now is, when you signed that affidavit to which you have just referred, say- ing that you were not a Communist were you telling the truth? The
124 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
statute of limitations has run afjainst any possible prosecution for per]\uy for signing that affidavit falsely, if you did sign it falsely. It has not run against the question I am asking you. Will you answer tliat question: whether or not when you signed that affidavit you were not a Communist, whether at that time you were telling the truth in that affidavit.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, you are wrong about the statute of lim- itations. As I testified here yesterday, I have an affidavit currently on file. I would like to say now, Mr. Scherer, that throughout this hearing you liave been
]Mr. Scherer. I am not wrong about the statute of limitations.
]\Ir. (lOJACK. You have been extremely provocative toward me. You have tried to provoke me into arguments here. At this point I refuse to be provoked any longer. I am going to decline to answer your spe- cific questions for the reasons previously stated at length.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Gojack, I am quite sure I have not tried to provoke you. I had not been aware that Mr. Scherer had. I think that is an erroneous appraisal by you of him.
I i-emember yesterday — and I am sorry I was not here this morning ; I was attending another committee — I do remember that yesterday I sincerely tried not to provoke you but to get from you a frank state- ment of whether or not you had been a member of the Communist Party. I am sure we did not get it while I was here, and I was here all day yesterday. I do not know whether you have answered tliat question frankly today or not.
Mr. Scherer. He has taken the first amendment a number of times.
Mr. Doyle. Today?
Mr. Scherer. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. As I stated to you yesterday, your statement that you filed that affidavit does not remove my sincere inquiry as a Member of Congress as to whether or not you have ever been a member of the Communist Party, because I have known of some people who filed that oath who became members of the Communist Party again within a few hours afterward. That oath which you filed was signed, as I recall, August 24, 1954. My memory is correct, is it not ? Have you been a member of the Communist Party since then? That is a fair question, is it not ? I do not mean whether you carry a card or not, but to all intents and purposes, in your own mind, are you a membei^ of tlie ( V)mmunist Party ?
The reason I feel justified in asking that question is that the Com- munist Party has been declared to be a subversive outfit. If I did not think it was, I would not sit here on this committee and ask you.
]Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, that is precisely why I have invoked the first amendment in this hearing. When you speak of wdiat is in my mind, that is the thing I am disturbed about, that a committee of Congress can ask me what is in my mind. I understand the Constitu- tion of the United States prohibits a search into people's minds.
Mr. Doyle. I only asked you that, sir, because deceit and fraud and misrepresentation come from a person's mind. In a preliminary way, I indicated to you that I have known of cases where men and women have signed those affidavits to get by the Taft-Hartley law, without ever intending to get out of the Communist Party except for the pur- pose of filing that affidavit.
COJVDMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 125
I think it is entirely possible that you might have been in that class, because this State Department letter challenged you with your mem- bership in Connnunist outfits, and I have not heard you ever deny that you were a member of a Communist outfit, not before this committee or before the State Department. You have not testified here that you went up there and denied to the State Department that you were a member of the Communist Party, have you? You have not told us that you went up there and tried to clear your skirts of being a mem- ber of Communist-front organizations. I do not believe that you did, because you have not volunteered the information that you did so. I just assume if you had not been a member of the Communist Party, the first thing you would have done would have been to go up to the State Department and say, "You have made a mistake. I have never been a member of the party,'' and put them to proof. You have never done that.
I think the burden is on you, young man, not on us.
Mr. JMouLDER. Will 3'ou repeat your question, Mr. Doyle, as to whether or not he has ever been a member of the Communist Party ? He has not answered it.
Mr. Doyle. I repeat the same question : Have you been a member of the Communist Party, either before you signed the affidavit or ckiring the time or period that you may have made your affidavit out, or since.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, I respectfully decline to answer your ques- tion because I believe that what that question does to me is to judge me guilty without benefit of trial. I have repeatedly reiterated my basic objections to this hearing.
Mr. Doyle. We are not adjudging anybody guilty. No, Mr. Gojack. Of course, if you think it is a matter of criminal intent and participa- tion in a conspiracy to be a member of the Comnuniist Party, then I understand Avhy you might conclude that you are being found guilty without a trial. But we are not here finding anybody guilty. We are here as a group of Congressmen trying to find out the extent to which Communists have infiltrated your union, if they have — the union of which you are the executive vice president. That is what we are here for, young man ; not to find you guilty of anything, but to find out the extent to which you know of (Communist domination or control in your union, if there is such domination and control or infiltration,
Mr. GojACK. INIr. Doyle, ma}^ I respectfully say that if this investi- gation occurred in 1949 or 1950, or something like that, 1951, your l)osition there would have some merit, in my judgment ; but the timing; of this hearing, just before a couple of labor board elections, convinces me that you are not seeking what you have stated is the purpose of this hearing. I am convinced that this is a union-busting venture.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, that is an excuse for your not answering. That is the way I appraise your answer.
Mr. GojACK. I am not answering it for the reason of any excuse. 1 want you clearly to understand my position on that. My position on declining to reply to questions concerning my beliefs and faiths* is based on my strong belief that this committee has no right to inquire into them.
Mr. DovLE. I do not intend to inquire into the question of your be- liefs or faiths, but I ask you frankly w^hether or not you have ever
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126 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
been a member of the Communist Party. That is not a question of belief or faith. It is a question of loyalty to the United States. In view of the fact that you know mighty well and you have known for years that the Communist Party in America is designed as part of an international conspiracy to overthrow our constitutional form of gov- ernment, I have concluded — and I want to be frank with you — I have concluded since hearing you yesterday and today that there was a time, whether today or not, I do not know, that you were entirely too intimately tied up with the Communist Party, because you have never denied it. You have never had the backbone as the leader of thousands of American men and women to stand out as clean as a hound's tooth when it came to the question of Communist Party membership and deny it or, if you had been a member, to get out of it and invite your union members to do the same thing.
Have you ever criticized the Communist Party ? If so, where and when have you ever criticized the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. The reason I am smiling, Mr. Doyle, is — the fact of the matter is someone once asked me — I don't know how to answer your question specifically because I have never dealt with the question. Someone once asked me if I ever criticized anything done in Russia. I don't know anything about Russia. I have never been there.
Mr. Doyle. The Communist Party of the United States is not in Russia. It is quite closely identified, I think, with some members in your union. You can't tell me that in all the 18 years, more or less, that you have been in that union, you have never discussed the subject of communism in connection with your labor union meetings or with your board.
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I can truthfully say to you that in every union meeting I have participated in, whether it be at a general executive board meeting, a local union meeting, or a district council meeting, the question of Communist activity was never a subject for discussion except where someone might have falsely accused this union of it and we were answering those accusations.
Mr. Moulder. Wasn't that question discussed at the time the CIO disassociated your organization from the CIO and kicked your organ- ization out of the CIO ? It was discussed then, was it not ?
Mr. OojACK. We withheld our per capita tax before we were kicked out. We departed company from the CIO before they expelled us. 1 was a member of the general executive board that voted, after receiving certain directions from our district convention, to withhold per capita tax, because we were being obligated to accept political dictation, and our union feels strongly that our constitution, which says the members run the union, must be our yardstick. ^Ylien the newspapers were full of this baloney about the CIO charge of Com- munist domination, we explained that at meetings, and we proved, I think to the satisfaction of our union members in our area, at least, that the real reason was that we would not accept political dictation from the top.
Mr. Doyle. Then, Mr. Go jack, you wish to correct your testimony of a minute ago when you said that it was never discussed in union meetings or board meetings, because now you say you explained it to your membership.
Mr. GoJACK. No. I say we explained the false charge of commu- nism.
COaiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 127
Mr. Doyle, Then you did discuss tlie subject of communism, did jou not, in your union ?
Mr. GojACK. We discussed the general false charge of communism against our union, yes.
Mr. Doyle. At the time you were explaining to your union that this charge of the CIO was false, it is a fact, is it not, at that very time you vrere a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, to that and every question about my polit- ical affiliations and beliefs, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Doyle. That is all. I hope the time will come, young man, while you are still a leader of American working men and women, when you will place the welfare of your Nation high enough up above your own personal convenience that you will see to it that the Com- munist influence in your own union is cleaned up wherever it exists.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, it is precisely because of my strong feeling for this countr}^ that I take the stand I do here to protect the right of an individual to think as he sees fit in this country, to have some freedoms left.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, in answer to one of the questions of Mr. Doyle you indicated that there never was a time when the question of communism was brought up in your union or \'Our board. 1 under- stood you further to say or to indicate that you had never endorsed communism or that you had never criticized communism in a union meeting. Am I correct in that latter statement ?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, we never discussed or criticized communism, so- cialism, capitalism, republicanism, knownothingism, and a million other isms you could think up.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the ninth district con- vention of your union in Fort Wayne on March 26 and 27, 1949 ?
Mr. Go JACK. Very likely, sir, yes. I don't recall the exact dates.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there a resolution offered at that convention in the following language :
Whereas it is now a well established fact that the work! movement of com- munism has the goal of violent overthrow of all opposing forms of government, destruction of all property and civil rights of individuals, and
Whereas, The American Communist Party is a part of this world organization and is subject to its policies and directions : Therefore be it
Resolved, That this union assembled in its 14th international convention does hereby declare that it is our decision that membership in the American Communist Party or in any organization controlled and directed by the Amer- ican Communist Party does not constitute a form of religious or political belief; and it is hereby
Resolved, That all officials or representatives of this union or subdivisions thereof shall render all rulings or interpretations in accordance with this resolu- tion.
It is hereby recommended that the above resolution be adopted by local 901 and recommended for adoption of the 14th international convention of the UERMWA.
Do you recall that resolution being offered ?
Mr. Gojack. Sir, the 14th international convention of the UE was not held in Indiana or in Michigan.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this resolution considered by district 9 before the 14th convention was held that we spoke of ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall whether when the group from local 901 headed by this Dallas Smith, who is now' working for the General Electric Co. in an employer capacity— whether they brought this same
128 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
resolution in to our district council, as the language there obviously indicates it was referred to the 14th international convention. I do recall some such resolution being i^resented at our district council, yes.
jMr. Tavenner. Weren't you chairman of the meeting?
j\Ir. GojACK. I was chairman of the meeting when such a resolution was brought forward.
Mr. Tavenner. You stepped down from the chairmanship and argued against the adoption of the resolution, didn't you ?
Sir. Gojack. Sir, the way our district councils operate, all resolu- tions are referred to a resolutions committee.
Mr. TxVA^ENNER. Will you answer the question, please? Did you step down from the chairmanship and take the floor and argue against the adoption of this anti-Communist resolution ?
]\Ir. Gojack. I don't recall the exact date, whether it was that con- vention or maybe a similar resolution at another convention, but I am certain that, along with many of our members and delegates to con- ventions, I took the floor; and whenever I took the floor to speak on it, I stei^ped down from the chair to debate an issue pro or con.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Gojack. I remember, sir, clearly engaging in a debate against some proposals by this Dallas Smith group. As to whether or not it Avas on that particular resolution or another one, I don't recall. I will be happy to check our minutes and refresh my recollection and give you a veiy specific and definite answer.
^Ir. Tavenner. Didn't you take the position before your union at that time that you were a candidate for election as a delegate to the national convention, and you wouldn't go if such a resolution were adopted ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall what position I took on that or any other resolution, sir. I am sure I had better reasons than that which Mr. Appell suggests to you now.
Mr. TAMiNNER. Is it true ? That is the point. Whether there was a better reason or not, is it true ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall all the reasons or whether that was one of the reasons I expressed. I don't even recall whether I took a posi- tion on that specific resolution. If you will give me a copy of the minutes — I see that Mr. Appell has the lUE-CIO propaganda leaflets in his folder there.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't see anything relating to minutes regard- ing that matter at all. You are drawing again on your imagination.
Mv. Gojack. I just saw Mr. Appell had some lUE leaflets there, and that is the reason I suggested that. The lUE leaflets were based on some minutes that were stolen from our files.
Mr. Tavenner. And therefore yoa surmise that I have obtained this information from that source, which idea is wholly untrue.
Mr. Gojack. No, sir. I am suggesting that if you have the minutes and can show them to me to refresh my recollection, I might be able to give you a more definite answer.
Mr. SciiERER. You mean you want to conform your testimony to those minutes.
Mr. Tavenner. You should be able to recall without difficulty whether you opposed in one of your conventions the adoption of an anti-Communist resolution.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 129
Mr. GojACK. Sir, in many conventions, national and district, I opposed any proposals for onr union to become a McCarthyite group.
Mr. Tavenner. You are convinced, then, that you did oppose the adoption of this resolution at a meeting of which you were chairman ?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I am neither denying nor affirming it, because I don't recall the specific resolution.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt here. While you were at the phone a minute ago, the witness volunteered very clearly that he would check on the minutes as to this resolution and see what posi- tion he did take.
Do you remember that, Mr. Go jack? You volunteered to check and refresh your memory as to what you had done in connection with this resolution.
Mr. GojACK. Yes; but I don't think that is necessary, because
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You volunteered.
Mr. GojACK. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee accept the offer of Mr. Go jack and have him furnish the committee with a certi- fied copy of the record of the minutes of that meeting where that reso- lution was discussed, and see what he did do, if anything.
You made the offer, sir, and we are merely accepting it.
Mr. ScHERER. I second the motion.
Mr. Moulder. Motion has been made and seconded that the offer made by Mr. Go jack be accepted by the committee.
Mr. Doyle. That will help you to refresh your memory and give us the record.
Mr. ScHERER. I ask, Mr. Chairman, that you direct the witness to furnish such a copy.
Mr. Moulder. And it is so ordered by the committee.
Mr. GojACK. We will be glad to send you those minutes. What convention is that, now ? The 14th international ^
Mr. Tavexner. It is in 1949. That is not only the minutes of your national convention, but it is the minutes of the meeting at which you were the chairman, where this resolution was offered.
Mr. GojACK. How soon do you want that ?
Mr. Tavexner. Just as soon as it is convenient for you to get it. In the next 3 or 4 days, if convenient, or a week.
Mr. Gojack, let us return to the subject on which I was interrogating you. You have read into the record Mrs. Shipley's letter to you of March 20, in which it was stated that if you desired to submit any material in connection with a request for reconsideration of your case, the question of your membership or nonmembership in organizations listed as communistic or subversive by the Attorney General would be pertinent. Did you furnish to the Department of Justice any in- formation regarding your membership or nonmembership in such organizations?
Mr. GojACK. No. sir. As I indicated earlier, I was given to under- stand that nothing could be done about it. The Secretary of State was supreme in this matter, so I dropped the issue.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you conferred with a representative of the State Department, did you not? Was that after the receipt of this letter on March 20, or before ?
Mr. GojACK. I presume it was after. I was given the invitation to consult. I don't recall the dates.
130 COIvIMIINIST ACTIVITIES ES THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Ta\'enner. How did you confer with the representative in the State Department ?
Mr. GoJACK. I appeared at the Passport Division and was referred to a gentleman whose name I don't recalL
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether it was Mr. Ashley J. Nicholas?
Mr. GojACK. I am sorry, I don't recall the gentleman's name.
Mr. Ta%-enner. Do you recall what he advised you ?
Mr. GojACK. I recall his telling me that it would be impossible for me to challenge this because the Secretary of State didn't have to give any reason at all, according to the law. If he said "no passport," that was it. There was no recourse.
Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you invited again and advised that you could submit materal to them which would be considered?
Mr. GojACK. As I recall, I started off by asking this gentleman whether or not I was denied this because of my registration as a Ke- publican in Fort Wayne.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gojack, you didn't discuss with them seriously the question of your subversive connections by referring to your having registered as a member of the Republican Party ?
(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left hearing room.)
Mr. GojACK. As a matter of fact, I started off the conversation by saying that I thought this country was coming to a pretty pass when an individual like myself could not get a passport, and 1 asked him, and I will admit quite frankly facetiously, whether or not it was be- cause I was a registered RepulDlican and the State Department at that time was controlled by Democrats.
Mr. Tavenner. To sum up the whole thing, did you advise the gentleman who spoke to you that you would submit a statement to the Passport Division upon your return to Indiana?
Mr. GojACK. A^ I recall, he suggested if I wanted to carry the thing further, I would have to write a detailed account of everything I ever belonged to and go into this whole matter. I told him I would give some thought to it, and I let it go at that.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you deny that you told him that you would make a report upon your return to Indiana ?
Mr. GoJACK. Sir, I don't recall indicating to him that T would send back a report.
Mr. Tavenner. You are certain of this : that you did not make any further report and followed the matter no further after your return to Indiana ?
Mr. Gojack. Yes, just as positive as I am that I am not permitting this committee to inquire into my political beliefs and affiliations.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Nicholas, in discussing your problem with you, discuss any organizations ?
Mr. GojACK. I recall him reading off some organizations, including some that I had long since forgotten about.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the Communist Party of tlie United States one of them ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall. The Boy Scouts might have been. I remember thinking it was pretty ridiculous, some of the organizations that were read off.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you consider it ridiculous
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, just a minute.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 131
Don't try to make a play on the Boy Scouts. You know full well that the Secretary of State's Office did not mention Boy Scouts to you. Why do you throw that into your testimony ^
Mr. GoJACK. Because in this conversation with this gentleman — I don't recall who it was — I made a point about the fact that, "Do you have my Boy Scout record in there?" They seemed to have every- thing that I had ever done in my life.
Mr. Doyle. I don't appreciate your bringing in the name of the Boy Scouts here as possibly a subject of discussion as to whether or not you were a member of that, because you know there never been any- thing subversive in connection with the Boy Scouts. He was only talk- ing to you about Communist- front organizations and the Communist Party.
Excuse me, Mr. Counsel and witnesses, but I felt that his use of the Boy Scout organization in that connection should not go un- challenged.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he discuss the Communist Party with you ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall, sir.
Mr. Ta^'enner. You stated that he had a list of various organiza- tions that you belonged to. That is when you made this reference to the Boy Scouts. Did he have a statement of your having belonged to the Communist Party ?
Mr. Go JACK. I don't recall. He had a folder there. He talked about organizations. I just don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. You wouldn't remember whether there was docu- mentary evidence relating to your membership in the Communist Party or not ?
Mr. GojACK. He didn't show me tlie folder, sir. As a matter of fact, when I asked hmi to indicate just what was in the folder, he said that the folder was classified information and he couldn't shoAv it to me.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire, Mr. Chairman, to offer in evidence, for identification purposes only, and to made a part of the committee files, the various documents relating to his passport, the application for passport and the correspondence. I request that the application for passport be marked "Go jack Exhibit No. 2."
Mr. Doyle (presiding) . It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. The letter of January 18, 1952, as "Gojack Exhibit No. 3."
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. The letter of February 4, 1952, as "Gojack Exhibit No. 4." ^ ' '
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. The letter of February 19, 1952, as "Gojack Exhibit No. 5."
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. The letter of February 25, 1952, as "Gojack Exhibit No.G." ^
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. And the letter of March 20, 1952, as "Gojack Exhibit No. 7."
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and received.
Mr. Tavenner. I asked you a few questions earlier in your testi- mony this afternoon regarding an organization in Paris by the name of Metal Workers Trade Union. When you filed your application for
132 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
passport, did you propose to make contact with that union on your arrival in Paris ?
Mr. GojACK. I knew nothing of that union in that connection, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You had no interest whatever in that union?
Mr. GojACK. Not in that union specifically. I would naturally have interest in the trade-union movement of any country I visited, as a trade unionist, but not any specific union, sir.
(Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to hearing room.)
Mr. Tavexner. The meetings of your executive board which you referred to as having attended were in 1952. Were the meetings of your executive board held on the same plan, that is, quarterly, during the year 1951 ?
Mr. Go JACK. Yes. As a matter of fact, since I have been in this district council.
]SIr. Tavexxer. "\^^ien was your meeting held just prior to March 27, 1951 ? When would the last meeting prior to that have been held ?
Mr. GojACK. Either December, or in some cases at the general ex- ecutive board meeting which was in December and which we tried to follow with our district council board meetings, if that were too close to the holidays, some years we would have that quarterly meeting early in January of the following year ; either in December or January.
Mr. Tavenner. When would the next meeting have been held after the January meeting ?
Mr. GojACK, The March meeting, which would be the day prior to the district council convention.
Mv. Tavenner. What would that date have been in 1951 ?
Mr. GojACK. That would have been the day before the district council meeting. If the district council meeting was March 2G, it would have been March 25.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you may have had a meeting of your executive board in March but prior to the 27th of March i
Mr. GoJACK. Oh, no doubt we did have. If the council meeting was March 26 and 27, tlie board meeting would have been held on the 25th. I am certain of that.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you attend your executive board meeting held in March of 1951 ?
Mr. GojACK. I am almost certain, sir. I don't recall missing any of our board meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Am I correctly stating that you also attended the one in Januarj^ of 1951 ?
Mr. GojACK. Or December 1950, whichever it was.
Mr. Tavenner. Whichever month it was held.
Mr, GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner, Do you recall whether at either of those meetings you discussed any desire on your part to establish contact with a trade- union organization in Paris?
Mr. GojACK. No, I don't recall discussing a specific contact. I remember one time — I am not even sure it was that year — the question came up of receiving information from trade unions in Europe because of the interest of our locality. We had plants in our district that had plants in Europe.
For example, the Harvester plant in Louisville, which at one time was in our district. There was a Harvester plant outside of Paris. We were organizing a Burroughs plant in Detroit, and they had one
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 133
in Scotland. There was a Wayne Pump plant in Fort Wayne ; there was a Wayne Pump plant in London.
On a number of occasions we discussed the advisability of making contact with unions in Europe for exchange of information, and actu- ally had such exchange. I remember specifically with Wayne Pump we received communications from the British trade unions about con- ditions and wages, and in fact, a copy of their contract at the pump plant in England.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any correspondence of any character with the organization I mentioned, the Metal Workers Trade Union in Paris?
Mr. Go JACK. Nothing of that nature, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Russell Nixon ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, I know Russ Nixon.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- munist Party?
Mr. GojACK. Russ Nixon is known to me to be a Washington repre- sentative, legislative representative of our union.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, we know that. Will you answer the question, please ?
Mr. Gojack. To this question, sir, and any question about any other individuals regarding political beliefs or afliliations. sir, I respectfully decline to reply on the grounds on which I am challenging the juris- diction of this committee.
Mr. Moulder. Do you not realize that the courts have held that the Communist Party is not a political organization, that it is not a politi- cal party 'i
Mr. Gojack. Frankly, 1 don't know what it is in terms of the court decisions. I read the other day where a fellow was convicted in Chi- cago for 5 years for being a member of it, under the Smith Act. I am not keeping pace with these court decisions.
Mr. Scherer. Then it would not be a political party if you could be convicted and sentenced for 5 years for belonging to it. It is a criminal cons})iracy as much as any other conspiracy on the Federal criminal statutes.
Mr, Doyle. Mr. Scherer, may I supplement your observation by saying, assuming that the finding of the Federal court was according to the evidence and law, it would mean that this committee could not possibly be inquiring into your political affiliations when we are ask- ing you whether or not you are a member of the Communist Party, because the court has held that the Connnunist Party is not a legiti- mate political party, as I understand Mr. Scherer's observation.
Mr. Gojack. Sir, I am neither a lawyer nor a Government expert on this question. I remember reading in the New York Times the other day where a Multer, one of your fellow Congressmen from Brooklyn, said that under this new law to outlaw Communists, the Communist Control Act of 1954, the one that Humphrey tacked some amendments onto — according to that one, he stated President Eisen- hower could be proven a Communist. I don't know what the legal
Mr. Doyle. May I just sincerely observe, Mr, Gojack, you may not be a lawyer, but you are a very able and very well-read young man, apparently. You are a very well-informed labor union leader. I say that because that is my impression from your testimony. You do not need to apologize for not being well read and well informed, because
«
134 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
manifestly you are, and you are a very able witness, very, very well informed^ in all the areas in which you are being questioned.
Mr. GojACK. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. |
Mr. SriiERER. The question still is
Mr. Moulder. May I ask the witness, do you know whether or not Russell Nixon is a member of the Communist Party ? I am just asking whether or not you know that.
Mr. GoJACK. Sir
]\Ir. INIotTLDER. Do you or do you not know ? I am not asking you to state whether or not he is, but whether or not you know.
Mr. GoJACK. Sir, I respectfully submit that that question cannot be propounded to me by this committee because it seeks to expose some- one, and I don't think that the law under which this committee oper- ates was set up for exposure purposes. My understanding is that that is wliat the courts are for, to expose people.
Mr. ScHERER. Their job is to judge, not to expose. It is the job of this committee to expose Communists. That is one of its primary duties, to expose Communists and the nature of the infiltration of the Communist conspiracy in every activity and agency of American life, which includes labor unions.
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer that question?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir, on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. May I suggest that he be directed to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I move he be directed to answer, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I respectfully decline on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. How long has Mr. Russ Nixon been legislative representative of the IJE?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall the exact year he was appointed, sir. It was sometime in the early forties, if I remember correctly, prior to his enlistment in the service. I came to know him as the legislative repre- sentative in the early forties. I just can't fix the exact date or year.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Nixon was identified by a witness before this committee as a member of the Communist Party and as having at- tended Communist Party meetings here in Washington, composed of representatives of various groups, sending labor representatives and other persons here to Washington for lobbying purposes. After that testimony was given and made public, did the UE ever bring Mr. Nixon before any of its bodies or committees to determine whether or not he had an answer to the accusation ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't understand your question at all, Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean, did we ever bring Mr. Nixon on trial in the union ?
Mr. TA^^F:NNER. Not on trial. Did you ever bring him in or request him to make any explanation of the testimony that was given against him before this committee ?
Mr. Go-TACK. Sir, our union is not in the business of
Mr. Tavenner. Just answer the question, please.
Mr. GojACK. No.
Mr. Tavenner. It doesn't require an argument. Did you say "No ?"
Mr. GojACK. I said "No," sir, and I want to explain my answer.
Mr. Tavenner. All right, then, explain it.
Mr. GojACK. If our union brought up on trial or called for some explanation on the part of every individual in it who has been
COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 135
slandered or smeared — take, for instance, just this fellow Matusow — if the people he named that he came across
Mr, Ta\^nner. The answer is not at all responsive to the question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. GojACK. I don't want to get argumentative.
Mr. DoTLE. Before counsel proceeds, may I say I am sure the three members of this subcommittee are delighted to have sitting with us this afternoon a distinguished Member of the House of Eepresenta- tives who does not happen to be a member of the Un-American Activities Committee — Mr. Forrester of Georgia. I am sure we are glad to have him sitting with us.
Mr. GojACK. And I am very glad to know the gentleman.
Mr. Tavenner. Due to the fact that you have gone out of your way so far as to mention three or four times during the course of your testimony that you had had only seven grades at school, and due to the emphasis that you have put on that, I think I should like to correct you on that. Didn't you have 4 years of high school, also ?
Mr. GojACK. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. Tavexner. Then why did you put it in your selective service •questionnaire, where it says :
I have completed 8 years of elementary school and 4 years of high school.
Was your recollection better then than it is now ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. ^laybe that is a fact that is not supposed to be within liis own knowledge.
Mr. ScuERER. Will you withdraw your question ?
Mr. Tavexner. Yes. I withdraw my question.
Mr, ScHERER. I am asking the witness which time was he telling the truth, today or when he signed his selective service application.
Mr. GojACK. About my education ?
Mr. ScHERER. Yes.
Mr. GoJACK. Every time I said I had seven grades of schooling, I was telling the truth. As to this typewritten business on my applica- tion, I don't even recall filling this thing out.
Mr. SciiERER. It is your application, is it not ?
Mr. GojACK. My signature is on it. I don't recall who typed it. I might have had my wife or someone else type it. It was filled out in 1941. I wasn't a very good typist then. Since then I have learned to type rather well.
Mr. SciiERER. Is that your answer ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, that is my answer.
Mr. ScHERER. May I see the application, Mr. Counsel ?
Do you remember, Mr. Witness, the circumstances of the signing of this application ?
Mr. DoYLE. Before the witness answers that question, I move that the voluntary remark by the" witness in which he referred to Mr. Scherer as the prosecutor be stricken out as purely an impertinent and improper remark, designed to facetiously approach the question which Mr. Scherer was going to ask.
Mr. Moui.DER. It is so ordered.
(Remarks by tlie witness stricken from the record. )
Mr. GojACK. May I say something in explanation, Mr. Doyle. I am very sorry. I have been on the witness stand in some labor injunc- tion hearings, and I have had questions shot at me by prosecutors, and inadvertently he sounded to me like a prosecutor, and I sJiould
136 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
I
have said "Mr. Congressman," but to me he has been acting like a prosecutor here today.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, your comeback to Mr. Scherer when you said, "Aren't you the prosecutor?" in my judgment belittles your expla- nation.
Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Doyle, may I add, I agree with you when you said you were not provocative. You were not here this morning. I felt I was under serious provocation on the part of Mr. Scherer. I am sorry if it has given you the impression that I have been argumenta- tive here. I am trying vary hard not to be.
]Mr. Scherer. You have behaved very well this afternoon, by com- parison.
Now, witness, do you recall the circumstances of the execution of the selective-service questionnaire ?
Mr. GojACK. No ; I do not recall, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. SciiERER. Even the fact that it was sent to you by your local board and that you filled it out and returned it to them ?
Mr. Go JACK. Sir, I would not have remembered the year had it not been for the fact that it was just handed to me and I saw that I signed it in 1940. I don't recall it.
Mr. Scherer. Irrespective of the year, don't you recall that the ques- tionnaire was sent to you by the selective-service board, and that you filled it out and returned it to them ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes ; I recall that. I notice also that it is typed, and I suggested the possibility that whoever typed it for me might have attributed to me more education than I have.
Mr. Scherer. Did you read it before you signed it?
Mr. GojACK. Well, I am not sure whether I read that document carefully, in the same way that I don't think a lot of people who deal with documents, like you Congressmen, yourselves, have the time to read every fine letter or, say, every bill that you vote on. I don't read every document that is in my office.
Mr. Scherer. It is pretty important when you fill out a question- naire for the draft, is it not ? That is not like any of the numerous documents you may sign in connection with your union activities, is it?
IMr. GoJACK. My tax reports are pretty important, too, but I don't read every fine print on the tax report. I don't make enough money to fill out the long forms.
Mr. Scherer. But you furnish the information, do you not?
Mr. GojACK. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. Let's see whether the other statements that you made in this questionnaire are correct.
You were living at 41 South Ludlow Street at that time, Dayton, Ohio, were you not ?
Mr. GojACK. To the best of my recollection ; yes. I was traveling away from home at that time, if I remember correctly. That was my home address. That is where my family was.
Mr. Scherer. That was your permanent registration address ?
Mr. GojACK. That was my home address, yes, sir, but I specifically recall working during that period in Michigan, away from home.
Mr. Scherer. If you did not type this questionnaire, you had to give to somebody your social-security number, did you not ? Your social- security number was 287-09-1208.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 137
Mr. GojACK. Franldy, sir, I just don't recall the circumstances under which that form was filled out.
Mr. ScHERER. You have your social-security card? Let us check and see.
Mr. GojACK. I was doing just that.
(Witness taking social-security card from his wallet.)
Mr. GojACK. It is 287-09-1208 ; March 17, 1937, date of issue.
Mr. ScHERER. Yes. And that is the number which appears in your questionnaire. So that was correct, too.
You say in this questionnaire that you were working at the time.
Mr. GojACK. Yes, I was.
Mr. ScHERER. It says that your duty was a field organizer or labor representative. You 'were such at that time, were you not?
Mr. GojACK. That is right, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. It asks for your duties, and jour duties at that time were, as you state, were they not : Organize and represent at collec- tive bargaining, employees in radio and machine industry?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. At that time you had been at that job for about 9 months, is that right ? It states that you had been at that type of work for about 9 months.
Mr. GojACK. Yes, approximately.
Mr. ScHERER. It also gives the history of your previous employ- ment and the dates thereof. I assume that those are correct. It gives the name of your wife and children and their ages and addresses, and a lot of other information that you alone could furnish. Apparently all the information is correct except your schooling, then, is that right?
Mr. GojACK. I would be happy to check it, Mr. Scherer.
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. GojACK. I might check it during a recess,
Mr. Tavenxer. Will you recess for 5 minutes ?
Mr. IMoulder. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(A short recess was taken.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order,
Mr. Tavenner. Are you ready to answer the question?
Mr. Gojack. Yes. I have examined tliis document, and the only error I can find in it in its entirety is the refei-ence to having completed 8 years of elementary school and 4 years of high school.
I also see, upon examining it, a perfectly logical reason for who- ever was responsible for the error.
Mr. Scherer, if you noticed, there were only 2 lines for occupa- tion; and while, as I testified here yesterday, I had many occupa- tions in the course of my life, the 2 listed were assembler — that was my factory experience — and research editor. That was my last WPA experience. Someone might have assumed that a research editor should at least have gone to high school. I just don't know what is responsible for it, but I would say, Mr. Scherer, that I believe if the FBI looked real carefully into your entire life, every document you signed, they probably would find a mistake or two somewhere along the line, and I tliink every human being could l)e found somewhere along the line to have signed the wrong statement or made some error.
138 COMI^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. ScHERER. All of US were pretty careful, though, in filling out our Selective Service questionnaire.
Mr. Moulder. Then it is your explanation that someone would naturally assume that most everyone is a graduate of high school in view of the experience and the position that you held ?
Mr. GojACK. I suggest that as a possible reason for the error, but I just don't recall. I just don't recall.
Mr. Tavenxer. Where did you attend elementary school?
Mr. GojACK. In the public schools and in the parochial schools of Dayton, Ohio.
]Mr. Tavenxer. What years did you attend public school m Dayton, Ohio?
Mr. GojAcK. I attended a few weeks of the first grade at the Edison Public School. My mother had died a few years before that, and my father was finding it difficult to
Mr. Ta-v^nner. That isn't necessary.
Mr. GojACK. I am explaining why I went to this public school for only a few weeks.
Mr. Tavenner. That is not responsive to the question. What other years did you attend public school ?
Mr. Gojack. Mr. Tavenner, I was going to save you some time by giving you my entire education in the course of my answer.
Mr. Ta\^nner. If you confine it to education, but you are going into the condition of your family, and so forth. Of course, I understand your purpose in doing it, but it is out of place.
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I went to Edison Public School for a few weeks, after which I went to school at the St. Joseph Orphanage for a number of years. I forget the exact year I left. I then went to Jefferson School in the fifth or sixth grade ; Holy Name School first, a parochial school. Then when I went to live with a sister in another neighbor- hood, I transferred to the Jefferson School. I remember going to the Orville Wright School, I believe it was, one of the Wright schools in Dayton.
Then the seventh grade at Roosevelt Junior High, and a few weeks in the eighth grade. Then a few weeks more, or months, I don't recall the exact time, at the Boys Prevocational School in Dayton, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. That was the name of the school ?
Mr. GojACK. It was a vocational school.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the last year of your attendance at ele- mentary school ?
Mr. GojACK. A few weeks in the eighth grade.
Mr. Tavenner. What year ?
Mr. GojACK. What year was that ? I would have to do some figur- ing; 1928, 1929, or 1930; 1929 or 1930 would be the better guess. I could figure it out for you if I sat down and did some studying.
Mr. Tavenner. I was asking you about Mr. Russell Nixon. Did he attend the executive board meetings that you said you attended in March 1951 and in either December or January preceding ?
Mr. Gojack. I don't recall, sir. I would like to explain that as legislative representative of our union, we invited Mr. Nixon upon occasion to address district council meetings. He never attended a district board meeting, but he might have attended a district council meeting. Whether or not he was there that year, I don't recall.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 139
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a letter bearing date of March 27, 1951, on the stationery of United Electrical, Kadio & Machine Workers of America, addressed to Mr. John T. Go jack, and over the signature of Russ Nixon. Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not you recall having received it ?
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. GojACK. Xow that you show me this letter, I recall having received some such letter from Brother Nixon.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read it into the record, please ?
Mr. Go JACK (reading) .
Last week we received, addressed to the International Union, a letter from the Metal Workers Union officials in Paris, copy of translation of which is attached.
Although I have not had a chance to talk with anyone here in the international union about this, since this is a general communication and you indicated an interest in some such contacts at the last general executive board meeting, I am informally sending this to you for whatever consideration you think it might justify in your district. Fraternally yours,
Russ NixoN.
Mr. Tavenner. You have previously told us that you had no in- terest whatever in the Metal Workers Trade Union of Paris and had no desire to make any contact with that organization. Will you ex- plain that testimony in light of the statement by Mr. Nixon that you had at the very previous meeting of the executive board indicated such an interest ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, I will be glad to, sir. The interest I indicated at the January executive board meeting was not with reference to con- tacting the Metal Workers Union officials in Paris or any other specific organization. As I recall, some time prior to then we had discussed on a number of occasions the possibility of officers of our union — at one time I remember strongly advocating that the president of our imion take a trip to Europe and that we see for ourselves what was happening over there in the trade-union movement, because we had been getting reports from other trade unionists, from people who were sent oyer there by the State Department, and I specifically re- member posing the question that we ought to have some of our own officials go over to get firsthand reports on what was happening.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the reason you were applying for a passport to go to Europe ?
Mr. GojACK. No. As a matter of fact, I advocated in our general executive board that we establish contacts with unions with whom we had relations. I gave the examples that I recalled here, Wayne Pump and Burroughs Adding Macliine, having plants. I remember as a result of my discussion in the general executive board meeting, for example, sir, that one of the other general vice presidents gave me the address of a union in England from which I could get some in- formation on the Burroughs Adding Machine Co. there, some wage- rate information which we could use in our organizing efforts in the Detroit plant of Burroughs which was then and is today unorganized. I have been a strong advocate of this ; and I remember also distinctly that in the course of one of these discussions at our general executive board meeting, having a clipping from either the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times from some official in General Motors or Ford, one of the bigger auto firms, suggesting that a way to ease the cold
140 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
war mip:ht be an excliange, a broad exchange of many people between here and Europe
Mr. Tavenner. And you desired to make an exchange with the Metal Workers Union, a trade union, in Paris ?
Mr. GojACK. Not specifically; no. Just the general question of international trade unions.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Nixon says it is a matter you were interested in and had inquired about, and he thought it important to send you a document from that organization. Doesn't that mean that you were interested in exchange with that very organization?
Mr. GoJAcK. No ; it means nothing of the sort. As a matter of fact, he says in this letter that since this is a general communication
Mr. Tavenner. A general communication from the INIetal Workers Trade Union.
Mr. GojACK. Right. I indicated an interest in some such contacts, plural. I don't recall any inference here that I was seeking contact with the Metal Workers Union but, quite the opposite, contacts with any possible union, all possible unions.
Mr. Tavenner. It was a trade union which you knew to be a Com- munist outfit, didn't you ?
Mr. GojACK. Which union?
Mr. TA\rENNER. The Metal Workers Trade Union.
Mr. ScHERER. Of Paris.
Mr. GojACK. I don't know what it is today, to be very honest about it. I don't know what it is.
Mr. Tavenner. You read the document that Mr. Nixon sent you, didn't you 'I
jNIr. GojACK. I believe I did, but I haven't the slightest recollection of what it was.
]VIr. Tavenner. I am going to give it to you in a moment and ask you whether or not, in your judgment, it is a Communist document.
Mr. GojACK. I will be ha])py to read it, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the letter again and see whether or not the letter sent you was a copy made by Mr. Nixon in which your address is filled in in original type ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What does that indicate to you ?
Mr. GojACK. It indicates clearly to me that this communication was sent to a number of other people, also.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how many vice presidents of your organization received a copy of that letter?
Mr. GojACK. I haven't the slightest, sir. Very frequently. Brother Nixon sends information that comes across his desk in New York or here in Washington, to all of the district presidents. It has been a custom of his down through the years. We get detailed information from him that it isn't practical to send out to every local union. It is sent to the district offices.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall more definitely now about the subject of conversation in your executive boaixl meeting that Mr. Nixon is referring to in that letter when you said you were interested in simi- lar contacts ?
Mr. GojACK. He uses the language "some such contacts." I testified liere, and I will repeat, that I raised this question in many board meetings, and I would like to consider myself a champion of the cause
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 141
for o;reater exchange between people thronoliout the world. I think it would help to bring about a little more stable peace if the common people of the various countries would get together a little more than tliey do.
We may learn something about them, and they may learn soinething about us.
Mr. SciiERER. In view of these letters and the subsequent testimony, Witness, do you say that your contemplated trip to Europe, for which 3^ou were denied a passport, was still a pleasure trip, a vacation?
Mr. Go JACK. Mr. Scherer, this communication was in March of 1951, and I would respectfully suggest that I
Mr. Scherer. You can say it was not. You can say no.
Mr. GojACK. No, it has no connection. I will explain why. I can show you communications from all kinds of unions all over, in any oiven year that you want to. We don't keep a file of all of them. We keep a file of some of them. To suggest the communication of IMarch 27 has some relationship to my deciding in December or November that I wanted to take a vacation, and to imply something evil, I think is stretching the point.
Mr. Doyle. Was it not about this time that you were approaching the State Department? What months were you at the State De- partment ?
Mr. Tavexxer. 1952.
Mr. D0Y1.E, 1952, a year later.
Mr. Moulder. Let's proceed and hurry along as expeditiously as possible.
Mr. Tavexxer. I desire to offer IMr. Nixon's letter in evidence, and ask that it be marked "Gojack Exhibit No. 8," for identification pur- poses only, and to be made a part of the committee files.
Mr. Moulder, It is so ordered.
Mr. Tavexxer. Attached to the letter which has been introduced in evidence is the following enclosure. In parentheses there appears at the top :
Followina; is translation of a letter received by UE International Office from French trade unionists in the metal manufacturing field :
Paris, March 12, 1951.
Dear Brother: I am sending you attached a copy of a letter sent on to the smelter workers which was sent by the Paris metalworkers to their American brothers.
I ask you to do all you can to make this letter known to the American metal- workers in order to rebuild the lines of international solidarity between the workers of our two countries.
You have, dear brother, our fraternal greetings,
H. JOURDAIJ.
And here is the letter :
Paris, February 9, 1951. Paris Metal Workers to American Metal Workers.
Dear Brothers : Meeting in conference on February .3 and 4, 19.51, the Paris metal workers send you their fraternal and friendly greetings.
They request that you be the bearer of their sentiments to all the metalworkers in New York.
At this time when the capitalists wish to push the people into a new war, the Parisian metalworkers address themselves to their American brothers and call upon them to lead together the struggfe against the warmakers.
They have learned with pleasure that their American brothers in the electrical workers union are leading, like themselves, the .same battle for peace and well- being.
61497—55 9
142 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
The Parisian metalworkers who have knowu on their own soil 3 wars in 75 years and the consequences which have resulted from these wars, the millions of dead, injured, widows and orphans, the piles of ruins which are not yet cleaned up, know well all the consequences which the policy of war threatens to their country.
The increase in taxes, high cost of living, depression, freezing of wages, in- creased speedup, poverty, are already for them (the Parisian metalworkers) the consequences of this policy.
The Parisian metalworkers know that like themselves, the American metal- workers are profoundly devoted to peace and do not confuse them with their capitalist government.
The Parisian metalworkers remember the tremendous sacrifices of the Soviet Union in the struggle against Hitlerism and are in agreement with the peaceful propositions formulated by her at Lake Success.
Conscious that the forces of peace are the strongest in the world, forces of which a part is the Soviet Union and the popular democracies as well as the people of the capitalist countries and the colonial countries, the Parisian metal- workers know that the war is not inevitable, that one can and one must prevent it.
The millions of signatures received by the Stockholm appeal condemning atomic arms have shown everyone the strength which is represented by the people desiring peace.
American metalworkers, the millionaires that make of your country an im- mense arsenal, source of materials of war, of death, would make of you the ac- complices of their crime and the associates of the Nazis whom you have fought with us.
The Parisian metalworkers struggle with all their strength against the prepa- rations for war, against the warmakers, against the rearmament of Germany, for the ending of the war in Vietnam and the return of the expeditionary corps as you fight for the return to the United States of the American Army in Korea.
The Parisian metalworkers associate themselves with the grief and sufferings of the American mothers whose children are dead in Korea, and will struggle with all their force in order that their country will not know the horrors which those valorous people now struggling for their independence know (in Korea). Pleven, provisional chief of the Government of France, in the course of his con- versations with Truman, conspired behind our backs the stepping up of the preparations of war and the increasing of the policy of poverty which expresses itself already amongst us by the wage freeze.
No people threaten peace, it is why the Parisian metalworkers call you over the frontiers to make, with them and the other workers of the world, the call for peace.
General Eisenhower, whom the Parisian people have applauded in 1944 with the Allied armies having struggled against Hitlerism, has received, in 1951, in our capital an entirely different welcome. The people of Paris do not want the re- armament of Germany nor an Atlantic army, nor a foreign commander in chief. It is why they have said to Eisenhower, "Go home and stay there."
In the other capitals of Europe the reception of the people was the same.
Brother American metalworkers, those of you who wish peace as we do from the depths of your heart, the security of your firesides, who do not wish to know on your land the horrors of war which we have known, let us establish amongst us the lines of brotherhood and comradeshii5 —
"and comradeship" is stricken out —
let us exchange experiences, let us learn to know each other better, let us unite our efforts in order to put a stop to the policy of war and poverty of our respec- tive governments.
Brother American metalworkers, the Paris metalworkers send you their frater- nal trade-union greetings. For the Conference. The Secretariat of the Seine Metal Workers Union.
Andre Lunet, Secretaire General.
And the names of eight other members of the union.
That is the document which Mr. Nixon transmitted to you and, as^ you say, no doubt to other vice presidents of your districts. Have you read any stronger propaganda document emanating from abroad than
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 143
that, contrary to and against the interests of this country and the for- eign policy of this country?
Mr. GojACK. Have I read any stronger ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Do you know of any document emanating from abroad of a more propagandist nature than that document?
Mr. GojACK. The most accurate answer I can give to that is, of course, in the New York Times I read the debates of people in the United Nations, and I read stronger denunciations of our foreign policy than that in some of the speeches in the U. N.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there any doubt in your mind now, after having heard that letter read, as to the Communist character of the organiza- tion known as the Seine Metal Workers Union or the Metal Workers Union of Paris ?
Mr. GoJACK. Sir, I couldn't answer that question with a simple "Yes" or "No" answer, for the reason that, as I testified earlier, I don't know what the organization is. I don't know whether it is a Catholic union, a Communist union, or the so-called third force that they have there. There are things in there, for example, that Eisen- hower got elected on. He got elected — at least he got the votes out our way based upon his strong stand against the Korean war.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you support the statement contained in that letter?
(Document handed to tlie witness.)
Mr. GoJACK. Sir. I couldn't say that I support the statements in this letter, because there is general language in here, there are things in here like the reference to increase in taxes and the high cost of living and the freezing of wages
Mr. Tavexxer. What about the Stockholm peace appeal ? ^
Mr. GojACK. I don't know anything about the Stockliolm peace appeal, sir.
Mr. Tavexxer. You never participated in that?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know anything about it. I know it has been condemned.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did you engage in tJie movement to bring the troops back from Korea ?
Mr. Go JACK. Did I engage in the movement ?
Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. Did you advocate it ?
Mr. GojACK. Oh, long before a lot of other people said that the Korean war was an error and that other things should have been done about it, I spoke out for peace and against useless killing. I believe strongly that that particular war, as it was settled ultimately by negotiations, should have been averted, if necessary by the same tech- niques.
I am against war. I am for peace. Is it a crime to be for peace in this country ?
Mr. Scherer. That was not the question. Mr. Tavenner asked you whether you participated in any movements to bring the men back from Korea.
Mr. GojACK. I don't know about any specific movements designed for that given end. I spoke out at district conventions and at the national convention of our union strongly on the question of peace, strongly on the question not only of averting the Korean war — I re- member asking Senator Homer Ferguson here last year, would he keep my boy out of the Indochina War. A lot of people felt that way.
* PoDiilar version of World Peace Appeal.
144 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. SciiERER. Mr. Go jack, you are just quibbling now and evading. That was not the question.
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, I respectfully submit that the question of peace or war is not quibbling. It is not to me, particularly in the light of some of the recent revelations about what we can expect from the next war if, heaven forbid, we should have one. It is a serious matter. It is not a quibbling matter.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to answer Mr. Tavenner's question.
Mr. Go JACK. I answered his question. I don't recall participating in any specific movement or organization designed or having as its name "Bring the Boys Back," or whatever it is. I have signed peti- tions. I have belonged to peace organizations. I have campaigned for peace. I have spoken to my Congressman for peace. I have writ- ten letters to the President. I have written letters to my Congressman. I wrote a letter to some of these fellows who were in the real minority the other day when they voted on this question of avoiding war.
Mr. Scherer. The question of bringing the boys back from Korea has nothing to do with whether you are for peace or war. We are all for peace.
Mr. GojACK. My answer to the question is that I don't recall any specific thing, and I explained in my answer that I have done many things, many things, and you probably have a lot of information in your file where I spoke out on the question of peace and I participated in delegations. I was active.
Mr. Tavenner. What use did you make of this document when you received it ?
Mr. Go JACK. I am not sure whether it was with reference to that particular document or not, Mr. Tavenner, but I recall one time hav- ing a message, a document like that, either in the circular mail from Brother Nixon or somewhere, a greeting from some workers some- where, and showing it to people and having requests from some mem- bers of the union that it be mimeographed and sent around to the locals. One local, I know, has a radio program, and they had a peace committee in this local, as a matter of fact.
Mr. Tavenxer. How many locals do you think this was sent to ?
IVIr. GojACK. If this was sent in accordance with my customary practice, it was sent to all the locals in my district.
Mr. Tavenner. How many would that be ?
Mr. GojACK. That would have been somewhere between, that year, between 22 and 25. I forgot the exact number at that particular time.
INIr. Tavenner. Representing a membership of approximately how many ?
Mr. GojACK. The question of the membership of my union, the number, I declined to answer Mr. Doyle's question on that, and I respectfully decline to answer yours.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking the question as he asked it. This is back in 1951. The records can be ascertained, but it would be of help to the committee if you gave it to us.
Mr. GojACK. Some thousands of members, perhaps fifteen or twenty. I am not even certain that I circularized that one. I don't remember. I don't know. I remember distinctly having the request from one local, would it be possible to mimeograph one of these mes- sages. Whether it was that one or another, I don't know.
COMI^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 145
Mr. Tavenner. Apparently other similar documents were received from Mr. Nixon which were disseminated by the method you describe.
Mr, GojACK. Much information we receive from the Washington office is in turn circulated to the local unions of the district and to the members of our district executive board. It is a customary practice if we get something in the office that we think should be drawn to the attention of the local unions, that we either get sufficient copies from the original source or we duplicate it and sent it around. We don't do this with all the material.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence, and ask that it be marked "Gojack Exhibit Xo. 9,'' for identification purposes only, and to be made a part of the committee hies.
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered.
Mr. Doyle. Do you do that, Mr. Gojack. as general vice president without awaiting action of the board? Do you have authority to do that detail administratively, to send a letter like this, a mimeographed copy, around to the locals ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You have volunteered that you engaged in many meetings in what you have termed in behalf of peace. You are familiar with the Communist Party line, I suppose, with regard to the Stock- holm peace appeal and various others that followed it, are you not? You are not {
Mr. GojACK. I am not even sure what you mean by the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take an active part in the peace pilgrimage to Washington which was organized by one of the "front" organiza- tions known as the American Peace Crusade ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Gojack. Sir, on this and all other questions that deal with my activity in any organizations, political or otherwise, what I think, how I feel, what I did about peace, whether I went on a specific dele- gation or not, and with whom — to all such questions I must respect- fully decline to answer on the ground that the first amendment to the Constitution does not give the committee the right to pry into mj beliefs.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct the witness to answer.
ISIr. Moulder. Yes, Mr. Gojack, you are directed to answer the ques- tion.
Mr. Gojack. I respectfully decline to answer for the reasons stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to make it clear, Mr. Gojack, that I am not interested at all in what your beliefs or opinions were about those mat- ters. What I am interested in is the extent to which the Communist Party was engaged in manipulating peace moves in this country in behalf of a foreign power. That is what I am interested in. My questioning of you is to determine what knowledge or information you had on the subject.
Mr. Moulder. May I say, Mr. Tavenner, in connection with your statement, that the so-called peace moves on the part of the Soviet Union were being instigated over here as propaganda so as to prevent any opi)osition to their aggression and domination of the free world.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I add to those two fine statements that I am also interested in knowing what the witness knows about
146 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
the extent to which the American Communist Party, in connection with these peace moves or otherwise, was using the leadership of American hibor unions, especially any labor union that the w^itness might have been a member of at that time or had any connection with. The question is the extent to which the Communist Party had infil- trated American labor unions, if you know anything about it, the ex- tent to which they were using it then and are using it now for their conspiratorial purposes.
That is all, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. The documents which I handed you have dates which are very significant. The letter from Mr. Nixon was on March 27, which was after the so-called peace pilgrimage to Washington, which occurred on March 15 ; but the letter which he enclosed from the Communist-dominated outfit in Paris w^as dated February 16, 1951. Normally it would have been expected to have been disseminated before your peace pilgrimage here.
May I ask you whether or not that letter had any influence upon your action then or later ?
Mr. GojACK. Wliich letter are you referring to ?
Mr. Tavenner. The letter from Mr. Nixon.
Mr. GojACK. The letter from Mr. Nixon had no influence on any actions I took with regard to peace. I have acted on my own initiative on that question — letters to the editor at home, and delegations, and many activities.
Mr. Tavenner. If you have disseminated among all your unions, representing thousands of members, this propaganda document from Paris, then you were performing a substantial chore for the Com- munist Party, weren't you ?
Mr. Gojack. Sir, I didn't testify that I circulated that. I testified that I remember vaguely that on one such communication from some trade union in Europe, which I showed around to people whom I met in my work, someone asked me if they could have extra copies of that. I remember mimeographing that, t am not at all certain — I didn't testify that it was this thing here, and it wouldn't have been circu- lated to thousands, sir. If it were a matter of something that came from our Washington office or our national office and didn't go di- rectly to the locals, we sent it to about 25 local unions. Then the local unions themselves decided what to do with it, whether to file it, read it at a meeting, or throw it in a waste basket.
Mr. Doyle. May I interpolate here. You testified very definitely that it was your custom to send those.
Mr. Gojack. Not this. It was my custom to send whatever comes across our desk that would be of interest to our local unions, to relay it to them. Most of the material comes directly from our national union or appears in our press. Such documents as this, if any of those were duplicated, I can only recall the one, and I am not even sure it is that one there.
I had reference, Mr. Doyle, to information on the voting record of Congressmen, information on legislative matters, information on wages and hours and other union contracts; more strictly, trade-union in- formation that we as a customary practive very frequently circulate to the local unions.
COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 147
Mr. Doyle. Of course, this concerned the international relationship between trade unions. Apparently you were very much interested in international peace, as we all are, thank God.
Mr. SciiERER. For different reasons, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. But not a peace without honor.
Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. INIr, Gojack, did it appear to you to be a very sig- nificant thing that Mr. Nixon should send you a document of the cliar- acter which I read, and to call your attention virtually to the fact that jou could use it ''for whatever consideration you think it might justify in your district" — plainly indicating that it should be dissemi- nated?
Mr. Go JACK. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That didn't raise any question in your mind ?
Mr. GojACK. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that because Mr. Nixon constantly sent docu- ments of that kind to you ?
Mr. GojACK. No. As a matter of fact, documents of that nature come from IMr. Nixon or Washington or national office very infre- quently. This would not be a usual and customary thing. He has sent us copies of, for example, the Economic Report to the President. That is one thing we get quarterly.
Mr. TxVVENNER. We are not talking about reports to the President. You know the type of documents that we are talking about. Did you report to your superiors or your executive board that such a document as this was received from Mr. Nixon ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't recall, but I should explain that we may very well have read it to the board, I don't know. We read communica- tions. If we read all the communications that we receive in the course of 3 months, we wouldn't have time to do anything else for the 1 day we meet except read communications. I don't recall whether that particular one was read to the board.
Mr. Tavenner. The document refers in detail to action being taken by people in this country regarding the bringing of the soldiers back from Korea. Did you publicly advocate that that should be done ?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, I publicly advocated that American boys should never have been in Korea.
Mr. Tavenner. I am talking about bringing them back from Korea during the progress of the war, in order to stop the war.
Mr. Gojack, I spoke out in many ways against the Korean war. I don't recall that specific formulation. I spoke out strongly on many occasions — incidentally, when it was quite unpopular to do so. Later on it became more fashionable, and people got elected on the basis of saying the same things I had said earlier. As a matter of fact, the Republican Party in Indiana posted signs on billboards throughout the State saying essentially the same things I said about the Korean war, only a little bit earlier. Maybe I was a premature peace advocate.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't the purpose of the peace pilgrimage to Washington to bring about a termination of the Korean war through the bringing back of troops from Korea ?
Mr. GojACK. I have no such understanding of that specific limited objective that you describe.
Mr, Tavenner. What was the objective ?
148 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. My purpose for everything I engaged in in connec- tion with peace was just that — to achieve peace.
Mr. Tavenner. You took part in the pilgrimage to Washington, didn't you ?
Mr. GojACK. To that question, sir, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Ta\^enner. Weren't you in Washington at the time of the peace pilgrimage ?
Mr. Go JACK. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. ScHERER. ]\Ir. Chairman, I request that you direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the American Peace Crusade organization ?
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. On a number of occasions didn't you serve as chair- man at meetings of that organization ?
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answ^er for the reason that you are asking me now about affiliations, beliefs.
JNIr. Tavenner. I am not asking you about beliefs. I am asking you about actions on your part, and only actions.
Mr. GojACK. Am I to conclude that it is legal to be for peace, to speak for peace, but not to act for peace ?
Mr. Tavenner. Of course it is legal to be for peace and to act for peace, but I want to know the extent to which the Communist Party influenced any action that you entered into or counseled any action that you entered into.
Mr. GojACK. I just want to say this, if I may, Mr. Moulder. I am answerable to my union membership. They tell we what to do. Out- side of that, I have a conscience of my own. I am motivated by the dictates of my consicence. On many, many questions regarding peace I did what I thought was best for this country because I felt deeply on the subject, and I do today.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the Government of the United States had to take public action in order to counteract the interference with the foreign policy of this Government because of the moves emanating from the Soviet Union on wliat have been frequently termed phony peace proposals ? Do you recall anything about that ?
Mr. GojACK. Honestly, sir, I don't know what the Government has done with regard to the Soviet Union. My Congressman hasn't told me about those things.
Mr. Tavenner. On February 20, 1951, the very period which we are discussing, after it had become known that the peace pilgrimage to Washington would take place — because it was first planned for March 1, and then was delayed to March 15 — the Secretary of State on that date, prior to the holding of this meeting here, made this statement :
In the latest manifestation of the Partisans of Peace, American Peace Ci'usade or Peace Pilgrimage, or whatever name it goes by at the time, the same people are calling for the same things, but this time they have added two more points. The first is that the Peace Crusade calls for the United Nations forces to with- draw from Korea. The Cominform has been calling for an immediate with- drawal from Korea, too. The Cominform wants us to withdraw from Korea be- cause if we do withdraw, it will mean that we are not willing to resist aggression wherever it may break out. Voluntary withdrawal from Korea would be a clear indication to the forces of international communism that the United States, as
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 149
the leader of the forces of the United Nations, was abdicating its responsibili- ties, abandoning its allies, and renouncing the moral force which has made this country what it is.
I believe the situation which was brought about by propaganda emanating from abroad created a situation whereby the Secretary of State had to make that statement.
Are there any facts within your knowledge as to the efforts of the Communist Party to sponsor that type of peace propaganda among the members of your union ?
Mr. GojACK. May I ask you whether or not this statement of Gov- ernment policy you were reading was enunciated by Mr. Dean Ache- son?
Mr. Taa-enner. Yes, sir.
Mr. M0UI.DER. That is not the question. His question was, Do you have aiw knowledge ?
Mr. GojACK. No ; I don't have.
Mr. Moulder. That answers that question.
Mr. GojACK. I would like to explain my answer. I thought I read all of Mr. Acheson's s])eeches, those which appeared in the Times. I don't recall having read anything or having seen this anywdiere.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the next question, please.
Mr. Tam^nxer. Now I hand you the February 1, 1951, issue of the Daily Worker, at least a pliotostatic copy of it. It relates to the Amer- ican Peace Crusade. It gives the names of those w'ho were the initial sponsors of it. I will ask you to state whether or not tliere appears among the list of sponsors the name of John Go jack, international vice president, UP^RMWA. Fort Wayne, Ind.
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. GojACK. This document appears to be a photostat of the paper you described, with the notation that 05 notables
Mr. Ta\t:xner. Will you answer the question, please. Your state- ment is not responsive to my question.
Mr. GojACK. I am sorry.
Mr. Tavexner. The question is : Will you examine to see whether or not your name is listed as one of the original sponsors of that organization?
Mr. Go JACK. On this paper you show me, this photostat, rather, my name is listed down there.
Mr, Tav-exxer. Does there not appear above your name the state- ment, "Other original sponsors include" ?
Mr. GojACK. After a listing of Thomas Mann, the Nobel Prize win- ner, four protestant bishops and leading scientists, writers, Negro lead- ers, and trade unionists, the language appears which you read on the paper you handed me : "Other initial sponsors include."
Mr. Tavexxer. Does your name appear among those included as original sponsors?
Mr. Go.TACK. Yes ; on this document here, my name appears along with some A. F. of L. and CIO leaders, also.
Mr. Ta\t.xxer. Yes, I know. That is a voluntary statement by you. What I want to find out is. Who solicited you as one of the origi- nal sponsors?
Mr. Go.TACK. On that question, sir, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Ta\i:xxer. Wliat method was used to get you as an original sponsor ?
150 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, for the reasons previously stated.
INIr. SciiERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the last question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.
Can we not eliminate this request for direction to answer at the be- ginning; by just assuming that every question asked of you, you are directed by the committee to answer? The committee, through the Chair, does direct the witness to answer tlie question.
Mr. DoNNER. Your statement about the assumption with respect to directions does not govern this hearing ?
JNIr. Moulder. That is correct.
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer for the reasons stated, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been instrumental, Mr. Go jack, in the dis- tribution of the March of Labor magazine among the membership of your union ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes, we subscribe to it.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know personally the owner, Mr. Steuben?
Mr. GojACK. No ; I don't know^ him.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he is a member of the Communist Party, or was a charter member ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know the gentleman.
Mr. Tavenner. What type of magazine do you consider the March of Labor to be ?
Mr. GojACK. It is a labor magazine that covers, as I know it to be from reading it, being one of a number of subscribers, that covers the broad labor field, CIO, A. F. of L., and independent union activities. They have had some special editions, for example, on 5 years of the Taft-Hartley law. There was another special edition on the workings of the McCarran- Walter Act. They had an article recently on the Square D strike in Detroit. They cover the strikes, one on the water- front. I read it for this reason : Our labor press, the UE News, covers only our own union's activities. I subscribe to the Auto Workers paper, the national CIO News, Labor, the railroad magazine; I get the machinists' paper, I get the lUE-CIO News.
Mr. Tavenner. You are getting rather far afield from the question.
Mr. GojACK. I am telling you that in all these papers you don't get the broad picture that you get in the March of Labor. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you read the report of the Committee on Un- American Activities on the March of Labor ?
Mr. GojACK. No. You don't send us your reports. Evidently I am not on your mailing list.
Mr. Tavenner. I will give you a copy of it.
Mr. GojACK. I will be happy to get a copy of all your reports.
Mr. Tavenner. Apparently you do not agree with the American Federation of Labor's and the CIO's criticism of that paper as a paper which carries the Communist line.
Mr. GojACK. I wasn't aware that that had happened. I have read articles in there written by A. F. of L. and CIO people.
COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 151
Mr. Tavenner. I notice a letter which was published in the Novem- ber 1950 issue of the March of Labor as follows :
Dear Brother Steuben : March of Labor is doing a bangup job and should be pushed by everyone who recognizes the need for an alert, militant, and united labor movement. Fraternally yours,
John T. Gojack, TJE District President.
Did you write that letter ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes. Shucks, Mr. Tavenner, I even wrote an article for the March of Labor on the Whirlpool raid, this very shop that is having the election tomorrow and on which this committee hearing has influenced the outcome and has interfered in. There is an article in March of Labor on the previous raid we had in the Wliirlpool plant. I am not much of a writer, but it told the story of that raiding election I thought pretty completely.
Mr. Moulder. You have made several comments on it. I do not want to prolong this hearing any longer than necessary, but I want to make it crystal clear again that this committee in no way whatsoever are intentionally interfering with any election. We had no knowledge of it at the time the hearings were set.
Furthermore, I want to make the statement that if it does have some effect upon the outcome of the election, then in accordance with your statement that the people who belong to your union are people of good judgment and want to exercise their rights and express their opinions in their elections, they can do so and, if it does affect you adversely, then there must be some good, sound, justifiable reason for its so affecting you.
Mr. CtOjack. Sir, because of the timing of this hearing just 2 days before the Whirlpool election, which takes place tomorrow, the press distortions on what happened here, some of which I related when I first came on the stand this morning
Mr. ScHERER. You said "press distortions." In what way has the press distorted anything you said at this hearing ?
Mr. Go JACK. I refer to press distortions on testimony yesterday.
Mr. ScHERER. I would like to know in what way they distorted your testimony.
Mr. Go JACK. They distorted the manner in which people con- ducted themselves here. The radio in my hometown, to the detriment of my family, has distorted something that you people here kept repeating yesterday, I thought quite unnecessarily. I commented on that this morning. I don't want to go into it again.
The very fact that the hearing is scheduled for 2 days before the election, at a time when we will not be able even to show our mem- bers the actual record of what was said here.
Another press distortion was in failing to report what I actually testified here to yesterday afternoon. The press in Fort Wayne and in St. Joseph, Mich., where we have these elections coming up, delib- erately distorted their accounts of this hearing by omitting important testimony I gave, purely for the
Mr. ScHERER. I have not seen those accounts, but I do not believe that the press distorted the hearings yesterday, particularly if they had an account of your conduct on the stand. I do not think they could have written strongly enough to give the public a true impres- sion of how you acted yesterday.
152 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA I
Mr. GojACK. Mr. Scherer, I am going to have to answer that. That calls for an answer. The very reason you staged these hearings, the whole timing and the staging is to give you an opportunity to inter- fere in labor unions, to bust unions. The very fact that George McClaren, the industrial-relations director, knew 3 days before any- body else that there would be a committee hearing. Who arranged it with him ? How was he able to announce it ?
Let me say this : I wired the chairman of this committee, as did other people, asking for a continuance of the date of this because of the timing of it for the Whirlpool election. I remember also that while tlie cliairman of the committee reported to the press that he ])ostponed the hearing initially because of the Magnavox election, the truth is that the clerk of this committee, Mr. Beale, sent a telegram to my counsel in New York saying that the original hearing in Fort Wayne could not be postponed, and later that night he reported to the press in Fort Wayne that it was indefinitely postponed.
Then subsequently, when word got up to Whirlpool that the hear- ing might be held beyond the Whirlpool election, something happened, and then the hearing was set for the 28th, 2 days before the Whirlpool election.
]\Ir. Moulder. This committee, as you will admit and everybody knows, has no jurisdiction or authority to bust unions. Let us proceed with the questioning and interrogation of the witness.
Mr. Tavenner. In the light of all this talk and the speeches made by the witness, may I make a brief statement for the record?
Mr. Moulder. Yes, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. It is true that a telegram was sent to counsel for Mr. Go jack, as we understood it at that time, Mr. David Scribner, stating that the hearings would not be postponed. Mr. Scribner called me and explained the reasons for his desire to postpone it, some of them personal reasons. The matter was taken up again with the chair- man, and the chairman changed his opinion about it and he was wired accordingly, as a result of that.
The committee had no knowledge whatever of the Whirlpool situa- tion which you have described, and the hearings were set without any regard to it at all and without any knowledge of it.
May I ask the witness a question ? When was this election at Whirl- pool announced ?
Mr. GojACK. It had to be held 30 days before, about February 5, 6, or 7, somewhere along there.
Mr. Tavenner. Please answer my question. When was it made public ?
Mr. GojACK. I don't know the exact date. The election was ordered before your hearing was announced for Fort Wayne.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it made public on last Thursday for the first time?
Mr. GojACK. No, it was set before that.
Mr. Tavenner. You are under oath. Do you state that to your definite knowledge, that it was before that ?
Mr. GojACK. Yes. I wired Chairman Walter last Thursday night telling him that the 28th date was interfering with the TOirlpool election and the local union
Mr. Tavenner. That is the first knowledge this committee had of it, I think. Isn't that the very date on which the election was set at
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 153
Whirlpool ? Isn't that the very date on which it was announced that it was set ?
Mr. GojACK. I am sorry, sir, the election at Whirlpool was set before that,
Mr. Tavenner. Was it publicly announced ?
Mr. GojACK. It was known. It was broadcast in the newspapers.
Mr. ScHERER. I have telegrams, Mr. Chairman, from various people in the Fort Wayne area saying nothing about the AMiirlpool election. They ask for postponement for the Magna vox election. They got that postponement, and now they are complaining about it.
Mr. Tav-enner. I may say that Mr. Scnbner, in calling me, had nothing whatever to say about any election at Whirlpool.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, at the beginning of the hearings, counsel for John Thomas Gojack, Julia Jacobs, and Lawrence Cover, filed a statement of objections to hearings and a motion to vacate the subpenas. At that time the members of the subcommittee unanimously voted to overrule the objections and the motion to vacate the sub- penas. Therefore, I want the record to show that at that time, nimc pro tunc, the objections and motion to vacate subpenas are overruled/
Mr. DoNxER. May the motion be incorporated in the record, sir?
Mr. Moulder. It is filed. It will be marked "Filed."
Ml-. Tavexxer. Mr. Gojack, were you a sponsor of a Bill of Rights conference held at the Henry Hudson Hotel in New York, July 16 and 17, 1949 ?
Mr. Gojack. I respectfully decline to answer that on the grounds that this committee has no authority to inquire into my political beliefs.
Mr. Tavexxer. I am not asking any question about your political beliefs. Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Gojack. As I said earlier, I respectfully decline to answer, because I think the first amendment to the Constitution gives me the right to have ideas and believe in the Bill of Rights which is involved in this, without any committee of Congress restricting my right to champion the enforcement of the Bill of Rights. I tliink the very hearing violates that.
Mr. Doyle. May I state to the witness, you know full well that this committee has never and does not now intend to restrict anyone's right to apply the Bill of Rights; but yesterday, Mr. Gojack, you very proudly volunteered the statement that you had worked for civil rights. You emphasized that yourself. You remember that.
Mr. Gojack. Absolutely.
Mr. Doyle. That comes'under the Bill of Rights does it ; not ? Why don't you cooperate with us and tell us the extent and the methods you used to apply your interest in the Bill of Rights. You volunteered yesterclay that you had been a fighter for the Bill of Rights. Now prove it. Help us to understand.
Mr. Gojack. Sir, I think I am fighting for the Bill of Rights by taking the position I am taking here : That this legislative committee of Congress, this investigating committee, set up for legislative pur- poses, has no right to be a court, jury, and prosecutor.
Mr. Doyle. No, we do not try' to do that. We are trying to get your cooperation as one of the labor leaders of our country, to give us facts which will help us more intelligently to legislate with reference, to the extent to which the Communist conspiracy has entered your union and either controlled it or tried to control it. That is our oiRcial
154 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
assignment, and that is what we are trying to do. You cannot side- track us or cover up our determination to get the facts, by bringing in these extraneous matters.
Mr. GoJACK. Sir, I don't feel that they are extraneous. I sincerely believe and I feel deeply that if you can question me about what I have done in some organization regarding the Bill of Rights, then you can question and challenge and castigate, say, a Supreme Court member for whatever position he may take on the Bill of Rights. I think the entire matter violates the first amenchnent. I am objecting on those grounds, sir.
Mr, Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I just want to remind the witness again that under Public Law 601, with which you are perfectly familiar — you made that very apparent yesterday — our official assignment is to go into the area of subversive propaganda and activities wherever it originates, whether it originates domestically or from foreign coun- tries. That is what we are doing, and you know it full well. That is under Public Law 601 which was passed in the 79th Congress.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, it is 5 o'clock. Do you think you ought to proceed further this evening ?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for five minutes.
(A short recess was had.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
Proceed with the interrogation of the witness, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Go jack, endeavoring to accommodate all per- sons involved here to make the rest of the interrogation as short as possible, you have indicated in response to prior questions that have been asked you that you would not testify regarding certain organiza- tions of which you were supposed to have been a member.
The committee has information indicating that you have been affili- ated with the following organizations. I am going to ask you, if there are any of these that we are wrong on :
American Youth for a Free World
National Negro Labor Council
Civil Rights Congress
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born
Committee to AVin Amnesty for the Smith Act Victims
National Committee to Secure Justice in the Rosenberg Case
American Peace Crusade
That is all that I have listed. Is there any one of the organizations that I have mentioned that you are not a member of ?
Mr. GojACK. To that question, sir, I respectfully decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. My purpose in asking you as to your membership in these organizations is not merely to find whether or not you were identified with those organizations, because the committee by its in- vestigation has certain facts regarding that, but the committee does desire to inquire as to what Communist Party methods have been used and what Communist Party assistance has been given in the operation of any of these groups.
You have indicated before that you would not answer any questions of that character. If that is your idea now, I will not waste time in asking you about each of these individual organizations.
Mr. GojACK. Yes, sir, that is my stand.
I
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Mr. Tavenner. You take the same position ?
Mr. GojACK. Absolutely, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Then it would be a mere waste of time on the part of everyone to ask you those questions if you now tell us you would not answer them.
Mr. GojACK. I agree with you, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I move that the chairman instruct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question con- cerning each of the organizations, both questions propounded by Mr. Tavenner,
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any official position in the Rosenberg Defense Committee in the State of Indiana ? I want to ask you that question.
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer that, sir, for the reasons stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I asked you earlier in your testimony about Arthur Garfield, who was an official in your union and who signed the affidavit which you presented on the filing of your dependency claim with the Army. Was he known to you to be a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, on the grounds previously stated, and for the additional reason that I don't want at any time in this country to be placed in the position of being an in- former. I agree with the Baltimore Sun that that is an odious pro- fession, and I don't want to become a party to that discredited pro- fession.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I request that the witness be directed to answer that question.
Mr. Moulder. The chair directs the witness to answer the question.
Mr. GojACK. I respectfully decline to answer for the reasons stated. I don't believe that this committee has a right under the first amend- ment of the Constitution to inquire into my beliefs or affiliations, about persons I know, and for the additional reason that as a trade unionist I resent even to be asked to be an informer, because I agree with the quote I gave you earlier from the Baltimore Sun that the Matusow case reminds us that the stool pigeons are as a class to be despised and not to be trusted. I don't want to become a stool pigeon and an in- former.
Mr. Moulder. Any further questions of this witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. One further question.
Mr. Go jack, are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. GojACK. Sir, that question was asked me yesterday. I replied to that question yesterday by repeating under oath my answer to that question as contained in my non-Communist affidavit, which is cur- rently on file.
Mr. Moulder. The chair directs the witness to answer the question.
Mr. GojACK. I stand on my previous answer, which is in the record.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. The committee will remain in session.
(Witness was excused.)
156 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr, ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I move that this subcommittee recom- mend to the full Committee on Un-American Activities that the wit- ness John Gojack be cited for contempt,
Mr, Doyle. Mr, Chairman, I second the motion,
Mr. Tavenner. And that the facts be presented to the committee.
Mr. ScHERER. Yes, and that the facts be presented to the committee and subsequently to the Congress.
Mr. Moulder. It has been moved and seconded that the subcommit- tee recommend to the full Committee on Un-American Activities that John Gojack be cited for contempt of Congress, and that the facts be presented to the full committee.
Mr. ScHERER. I call for the vote.
Mr. Moulder. A rollcall vote has been requested of the subcom- mittee on the motion. Those who are in favor will answer by saying "aye" ; those opposed, "no,"
Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Aye.
Mr. INIouLDER. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. Aye.
Mr. JMoulder. I as chairman vote "aye." Therefore, the subcom- mittee, having unanimously voted to cite the witness John Gojack, do recommend to the full Committee on Un-American Activities that John Gojack be cited for contempt of Congress. The facts and the report will be presented to the full committee as provided by the rules of the House.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 20 p. m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to call.)
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
MONDAY, APKIL 25, 1955
House of Kepresentati\^es, Subcommittee of the Committee
ON Un-American Actfv'ities,
Washington, D. C.
PUBLIC HEARING
Tlie subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 15 a. m., in the caucus room, 362, of the House Office Building, Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee) presidino;.
Committee members present: Eepresentatives Doyle (presiding), Frazier, and Scherer.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; and Donald T. Appell, investigator.
iSlr. Doyle. The subcommittee will be in order.
Let the record show that the Hon. Francis E. Walter, chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities, Committee of the House, pursuant to the provisions of Public Law 601, the law establishing the subcommittee, duly appointed James B. Frazier, Jr., of Tennessee, Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio, and myself, Clyde Doyle, as subcommittee chairman, to conduct this hearing.
This is a continuation of the hearing of February 28, 1955, which had for its purpose consideration of testimony relating to Communist Party activities within the field of labor, the method used by the Com- munist Party to infiltrate labor organizations, and the dissemination of Communist Party propaganda.
We expected to hear the testimony of one David Mates, whose ap- pearance before the committee had twice been postponed at his request, on February 28, but the United States marshal was not then success- ful in effecting service of the subpena.
It is understood that Mr. Mates has now been served and is now personally present. An additional purpose of this hearing today is to continue the committee's inquiry into the circumstances under which members of the Communist Party in the United States were recruited for military service in the Spanish Civil War, and to ascertain the method used by the Communist Party in securing assistance from the medical profession in carrying out its objectives.
Have you anything to add, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Taxtcnner. No, sir; I think not.
Mr. Doyle. Are you ready to proceed?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Will you please call the first witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. David Mates, will you p)lease come forward. 61497—55 10 157
158 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. Would you please raise your right baud and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth- ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. JNIates. I do,
]SIr. Doyle. Will you be seated then.
Mr. PoLLiTT. Might we have no photographs during the testimony, please ?
Mr. Tavenner. That is the rule of the committee and it will be abided by.
Mr. Doyle. The photographers always cooperate with us and desist taking pictures when we begin the testimony.
TESTIMONY OF DAVID MATES, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, BASIL K. POLLITT
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir?
Mr. Mates. David Mates, M-a-t-e-s.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel. Would counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. PoLLiTT. David Scribner and Basil R. Pollitt, 11 East 55th Street, New York 22, N. Y.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Mates?
Mr. Mates. I was born in Vilna, Lithuania, April 13, 1907.
Mr, Tavenner. When did you come to this country?
Mr. Mates. I was brought here at the age of 5.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen?
Mr. Mates. I am a citizen by virtue of derivative citizenship, and my father having become a citizen shortly after his arrival in this country.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date on which your father was nat- uralized, and where?
Mr. Mates. He was naturalized in the city of New York, Federal district court, in 1918, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner. Under what name was he naturalized ?
Mr. Mates. Under the name of Metropolitan.
Mr. Tavenner. "What w^as his first name ?
INIr. Mates. Morris.
Mr, Tavenner, Then your name would have been Metropolitan unless you have changed it by law. Have you done so ?
Mr. Mates. I have changed my name, I consider lawf\illy, and T have used the name for some 30 years, and married under that name, bore children under that name, and voted under tliat name.
Mr. Tavenner. So you are generally known as David Mates?
Mr. Mates. That is correct,
Mr, Tavenner, Did you have your name changed legally ?
Mr, Mates, I was advised that under Illinois statutes, when a citi- zen resides in that State for 5 years and uses a name legally, that is recognized by Illinois law as the legitimate name,
Mr, Tavenner. You have used the name of David Mates then since about 1025?
Mr. Mates. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what your formal educational training has been?
Mr. Mates. Eight grades public school.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 159
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ?
Mr. Mates. I reside in the city of Detroit, Mich.
Mr. Tavenner. ^AHiat is your occupation ?
Mr, Mates. I am the international representative of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been the international represen- tative of the UE ?
Mr. Mates. I have worked for the UE for some 12 years.
Mr. Tavenner. Then what would be the approximate date when you first became international representative?
Mr. Mates. Well, I started as a field organizer in July of 1943.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your offi- cial positions have been with the UE from your first position ?
Mr. Mates. I was field organizer since 1943 ; for about a year I was business agent of district council 9. That would be about 3 years ago. J'or the last 2 years or so I have been international representative.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to 1913, how were you employed ?
Mr. Mates. I was employed at the B. & G. Gage Co. as a machine- tool operator.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. How long were you employed there ?
Mr. Mates. Some 7 or 8 months.
Mr, Ta\t:nner. Will you give the committee, please, your record of employment from 1930 up to the employment that you just men- tioned?
Mr. Mates. That is quite a job, and I don't see how that relates to any legislative purpose, to go back some 25 or 30 years and remember all of the jobs that I had, or didn't have, and all of the periods of depression and unemployment.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your employment in 1930 ?
Mr. Mates. I feel that the question is not a proper one and I will claim tlie privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself,
Mr. ScHERER. I ask tliat you direct the witness to answer the ques- tion of counsel as to his employment in 1930.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, I think it goes to the point of identification of the witness, and I instruct the witness to answer the question.
(Witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Mates. Mr, Chairman, I feel that the answer is one that has no legislative purpose, and it is simply a violation of every basic right of the first amendment, and it is prying into the private life, and it has nothing to do with my activities iji the UE, wliich in the sense of being discussed in this hearing, and on the basis of that I vote the right under the first amendment and the available right under the fifth not to be a witness against myself, and therefore, I decline to answer the question.
Mr. D0YI.E. I instruct the witness again to answer, and in doing so, of course, the committee recognizes the right of a witness when he con- scientiously believes to invoke his constitutional privilege.
But again, I wish to say, Mr, Mates, that we feel as a committee that we always have the right to go into the question of identification of a witness, who he is, and where he has been, and what he has been doing.
That, of course, goes in part to the question of the extent of the activities of the Communist Party, possibly in different fields of en- deavor. What you were doing in 1930, and what work you were
160 COMMUNIST ACTR'ITIES EST THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
engaged in goes to the point of identification among other things, of your own activities during tliat period of time.
Mr. Mates. Well, Mr. Chairman, I know that this committee, be- cause the chairman of this very committee has made a public statement on the floor of ("ojjgress tliat he is out to destroy my union, an act or statement which I think is completely lawless and has no basis in law.. in fact, in Public Act 601, and if there are any powers granted to this committee to break unions, I would like to be informed of that right. In view of the fact that members of this committee, and I have black and white statements, said that when they have a witness before them they can always go to the woodshed and get a big stick and get a man on perjury or contempt or both, I don't see why I should waive my constitutional rights and not use the fifth amendment, which is granted to protect people against testifying against themselves.
Mr. Doyle. May I say to the witness that whatever statements you refer to as having read or heard being made by members of this com- mittee, were not made by any member of the subcommittee that is here this morning. We are a subcommittee of a committee of Con- gress, and I can say very truthfully that I, as a member of this com- mittee, and I am sure none of the members of this subcommittee, are out to break any union ; we are to break up, though, if we can, any Communist Party controls or efforts to control either your union or any other union. That is in line with our legislative assignment.. That is, to find the activities or the extent of the activities of the Com- munist Party at any level of American life, whether it happens to be in the union of which you are international representative, or any other union. I wish you, sir, as one of the foremost leaders of American organized labor to get that distinction. I sort of feel that you have- the distinction in mind, even though you made the statement that you did.
This committee is not out to break any union. It never has been. We are out to find the extent to which subversive activities are present in any union, or in any level of American life. Proceed Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed in 1936 ? Mr. Mates. For the same reason already stated, I decline to answer the question.
_ Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- tion as to the nature of his employment in 1936.
Mr. Doyle. For the same reasons, I instruct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Mates. As I indicated, while the Chair indicates this subcom- mittee has no intention of breaking my union or any other union, this committee did in fact act as a strikebreaker for the Square D management in 1954, which is the basis of this hearing, and I came to testify about the Square D strike and the extent of subversives, if any, and there was direct participation by this committee in the face ot a strike supported by the entire labor movement of Detroit, includ- ing the LAW, and AFL, and everybody, and Kit Clardy, the defeated Member ot Congress from this district, insisted it was a Communist- Jed strike, and a push-button strike, and you say you are not out to break unions.
For these reasons, I still invoke my right and privilege under the fifth amendment not to answer the question.
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 161
Mr. Doyle. Of course, Mr. Mates, again it is my duty to simply state tliat this committee is never out to break a miion, but we are out to break the Communist control of a union, or the ambition of the Communist Party to get control of a union. Now that you have made your talk on that point, let us proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Ta\'exxer. Mr. Mates, you were subpenaed to appear before^ this committee on December 6, 1954, and your appearance was post-' poned for your convenience or for that of your counsel, and you were directed to appear on December 15. That was in 1954. But you failed to appear. What was the reason for your failure to appear?
Mr. Mates. For the record, Mr. Chainiian, I don't remember any December 15 date, but I have all of the correspondence. I have been under subpena for a long, long, time. My original subpena was issued by Mr. Harold Yelde, November 19, 1953, requiring me to appear in the Federal Building in Detroit on January 23, 1954. I received a telegram telling me that the January 23 hearing was postponed and was set up for February 22.
I got a subsequent telegram dated February 23, telling me that the February 22 hearing was postponed to March 31.
I got another telegram telling me that the hearing was postponed from March 31 to May 5. I appeared on May 5, and at great har- assment to my union set through three days of 5th, 6th, and 7th, in room 859, Federal Building, and I was never called.
Then on November 11, in a manner which I consider strictly illegal, and an invasion of my right as a citizen, a marshal entered a private hearing of an arbitration case involving the discharge of 27 employees by the Square D Co., and in the fact of the admonition of the impartial arbitrator, Gabriel N. Alexander, that this was a private meeting and Avas closed to the public, the marshal insisted on coming in and handing me this subpena, ordering me to appear on November 17 in the city of Washington at 9 : 30 a. m.
I called my general counsel, my counsel, Mr. Scribner, and told him about the subpena, and he said he was trying a Federal court case in the city of Washington and for me to get a hold of the chairman, Mr. Velde, and see if I could get a postponement.
Mr. Tavexxer. And the postponement was given you?
Mr. ]\Iates. I don't know of my own knowledge. I'called Mr. Velde in Washington and he wasn't here. I called him in Peoria, and when I couldn't get him I talked to some gentleman of the committee offices, and he said he would contact my counsel.
Subsequently, I did fret these following telegTams from my counsel.
Advised by committee your hearing set for Monday.
No, the first one was dated November 15, and said :
Advised by subcommittee representative that your appearance tentatively set for next Monday. But specific information will not be known before this Wed- nesday. Will check committee Wednesday morning and will advise you ad- journed date.
Signed, "David Scribner."
Then on November 19, 1 received this wire :
Advised by committee your hearing set for Monday, December 6, at 10:. 30 a. m., in Washington.
David Scribnee. And that is the extent of my knowledge of the hearing.
162 COMjVIUNIST activities in the fort WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Then on December 1, 1954, you were wired that the hearing was being postponed from December 6 to December 15, and you had counsel appear here on December 15, but you were not here. Why weren't you here ?
Mr. Mates. Just the one point, I did not receive a copy of the wire and I don't dispute the facts otherwise. I did not appear on Decem- ber 15, if that be the date, for the reason that I was indisposed and was ill at home under a doctor's care, and my counsel was properly advised of the fact. He was asked to so advise this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first consult a physician with regard to your illness, because I understand that your physician sent a statement here regarding your condition of health?
Mr. JMates. I first consulted my family doctor on December 3, 1954.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was his name?
Mr. Mates. His name is Dr. Eugene Shaf arman.
Mr. Scherer. Was that before or after you were subpenaed that you consulted your physician ?
]\Ir. Mates. Mr. Scherer, I just told you I have been under a sub- pena practically 16 months, so obviously it was during the time I was under subpena.
Mr. Scherer. I understood all of your explanations. My question is whether or not you consulted your doctor before or after you were subpenaed to appear here the last time.
Mr. Mates. I still don't get the question, and he asked me if I consulted a doctor after having received a subpena, and I told him I have been under subpena since December of 1953.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask the reporter to read, jDlease, Mr. Scherer's last question ?
(Mr. Scherer's question read by reporter.)
Mr. Mates. As I recall, since I do not have the telegram for the final date, except the telegrams I gave, my answer would be that I consulted the doctor without knowing any specific date for a hearing.
I consulted my doctor, as I testified here, on December 3, and at that time I was not aware of any definite date.
Mr. Tavenner. You state you consulted your doctor on December 3. What was the next occasion on which you consulted him, if any, prior to December 15 ?
Mr. Mates. I was brought back the following day, December 4, for continued examination. I was given what they call a stigma, micro- scopic test, and I had to have a preliminary preparation the night before for it.
]Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat was the next occasion on which you saw the doctor ?
Mr. Mates. The next occasion was December 8, when I reported to find the findings of the various tests that he had made.
Mr. Tavenner. In the meantime, what were you doing?
Mr. Mates. In the meantime I was confined to bed, as per orders of the doctor.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you see the doctor again after December 8 ?
Mr. Mates. I saw him several times at my home.
Mr. Tavenner. How often do you think ?
Mr. Mates. I think the dates were December 13, 14, and 17, in that period.
Mr. Tavenner. But vou did not consult him after the 17th?
COIMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 163
Mr. Mates, Yes, I went back for a continued test in January some- time.
Mr. Ta\tnner. What date in January ?
Mr. Mates. I think it was the 21st or something around that date.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period from December 30, were you confined at any time to your home or to a hospital ?
Mr. ]VLa.tes. From about the 8th of December I was confined to my home in bed through around December 21 or 22, as I recall.
Mr. Tavexner. During the period from December 8 to December 21, did you leave your home?
Mr. Mates. What date was that again ?
Mr. Taa^enner. You said that you were confined from December 8 to December 21. Did you leave your home at any time during that period, from December 8 to December 21 ?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. IVLvTES. To the best of my recollection, if I did it would be to go down to the drugstore to get some medicine or something. I was not around, generally speaking.
Mr. Tavexner. You did not go any place other than to the drugstore, is that what I understand you to say ?
Mr. Mates. .Vs best as I recollect. I mean just around the house, but I don't remember anyplace else.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you known Dr. Eugene Shaf arman ?
Mr. Mates. About 4 years.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you consulted him professionally before De- cember 3, 1954 ?
Mr. ]\Iates. Yes. I consulted him in 1951, and I had some disability.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Had you known him prior to 1951 ?
Mr. Mates. I really don't know. I didn't know him. I had no occasion to be under his care. I have known of him, and I don't know if I ever had ocassion to meet him before that time, the 1951 date.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you ever met him before ?
Mr. Mates. I don't recall having met him before.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time j^ou consulted the doctor, were you aware that at one time he had engaged in giving medical examinations to persons recruited by the Communist Party for military service in
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. IVIates. I wouldn't know of my own knowledge. I was not in Detroit during that period, and I wouldn't know it as a fact.
Mr. Scht:rer. But did you learn about the doctor's giving this type of service through any other means ?
(Witness consulted Avith counsel.)
Mr. Sciierer. Was there any other means than your OAvn direct knowledge ?
Mr. Mates. My only knowledge, as I said, was not a matter of fact of my own knowledge, but I had occasion to study the proceedings of this committee in the city of Detroit in 1938, when this committee pulled again one of the lawless acts of interfering with a free election in Michigan, when they came in to clef eat the greatest governor Michi- gan had. Governor Murphy, and in the course of reading the news- paper accounts at my attorney's office after the hearings, I do recall
164 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA |
amon^ other things a mention of this doctor having something to do witli Spain.
IMr. Tavenner. Did his engaging in that type of practice inflnence yon in reqnesting a medical certificate from him for your failure to appear here before this committee on December 15, 1954?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. Mates. No more than my appearance before them in 1951, and 3 years later. I still went to the same doctor because I consider he is a Veiy fine doctor, and that was the reason I went to him.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Have you at any time since your naturalization resided outside of the continental limits of the United States?
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. Mates. In answer to that question, I would also claim the privilege of not to be a witness against myself, and will, therefore, have to respectfully decline to answer the question.
Mr. Scherer. Your charges against the committee, and the state- ments you have been making impress me very little now since you are beginning to invoke the fifth amendment to rather important questions.
I ask that you direct the witness to answer the question, whether he ever resided outside of the continental United States since his natural- ization.
Mr. Doyle. It is pertinent and material to this investigation, and I instruct you, Mr. Mates, to answer the question.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. Mai-es. I stand on my claimed privilege, which I invoked before.
Mr. Scherer. Have you ever been in Russia ?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason, the same answer.
Mr. Doyle. I instruct the witness to answer.
(Witness consulted with counsel.)
Mr. Mates. Mr. Chairman, I am compelled again to invoke my privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Doyle. You realize, Mr. Mates, that under Public Law 601, this committee is expressly charged with investigating the question of subversive activities, whether it is instigated from foreign countries, or fi'om domestic origin, do you not? That is the express language of the bill under which we are functioning. That is Public Law 601, 79th Congress.
Mr. Mates. As I understand Public Law 601, surely is so vague in nature that no person can ascertain the boundaries of the committee's power, and when you talk about subversive and un-American, I think there is a big area of discussion what constitutes good Americanism and bad Americanism. So that in itself doesn't clarify me any. Breaking a strike of 1,200 workers is not American.
]Mr. Doyle. I am going to take this position, that you have come here deliberately to make a speech because you are now reading a speech that you have prepared on a paper that you just read. You have come here to make a i-ecord for the benefit of your own union and we understand that. But if you go outside of the purpose of this hearing, I am going to strike from the record your voluntary state- ments thjit are not material and not pertinent. I feel that you are entitled to know that.
Mr. Mates. With all respect to your warning, Mr. Doyle, the fact is I feel pretty bad about this hearing being held today, when 2 days
COMMITNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 165
from now we have an important election at Fort Wayne, and by strange coincidence we always have the hearings in time to influence free Government elections.
Mr. SciiERER. We are having this hearing today because you have ducked subpenas, and have not showed up, and had requests for con- tinuance by doctors, and counsel, on a number of occasions. That is the reason we are having this hearing today. It has been tough to get you before this committee.
Mr. IMates. I don't think so.
Mr. Doyle. At any rate, we are taking just as little time as we can,, so that you can get wherever your business calls for. We are not interested in that.
Mr. Ta\tcnner. Where did you reside in 1935, 1936, and 1937 ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
JNlr. ]Mates. I would like to claim the privilege of the fifth amend- ment not to be a witness against myself in answer to that question.
Mr. Ta\-enxer. Were you living on Staten Island in New York?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I still claim the privilege of the fifth amendment to refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. I will instruct you to answer the question, ]Mr. Mates.
Mr. Mates. Mr. Doyle, you are not denying me the right of the use of the fifth amendment, which is still part of our Constitution, until this day?
Mr. ScHERER. We are not denying it, but I do not believe that you are using the fifth amendment in good faith. That is obvious. How could it possibly incriminate you in 1955 to answer where you resided in 1937, when even if you were engaged in criminal activity in 1937, every known statute of limitations would have run and you could not possibly incriminate yourself by any answer that you might make now.
So I do think that you are using the fifth amendment in bad faith.
Mr. Mates. Mr. Scherer, I am not an attorney but I know there are a lot of Matusows, and unless they are around waiting for that buck to testify for anything, whether they know a factor or not, and I don't know about the statute of limitations.
Mr. Scherer. I still say for any criminal act on your part in 1937, you could not be prosecuted, and, therefore, in my opinion, you are invoking the fifth amendment improperly, and invoking it in bad faith.
This committee is not depriving you of using the fifth amendment^ but we certainly have a right to comment as to our opinion as to whether or not you are properly invoking it. You have invoked it, and so we can proceed.
Mr, Tavenner. Mr. Mates, I hand you a photostatic copy of the passport application bearing date the 18th day of March 1937, and the name of David Metropolitan, with the notation stamped on it that the passport was issued March 18, 1937, by the Department of State,
Will you examine it, please, and look on the second page and state whether or not the signature of David Metropolitan is your signature? (Document handed to witness.) (Witness consulted counsel.)
166 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA ^
]\Ir. Mates. I will invoke my right of the fifth amendment to decline to answer the question asked.
Mr. TA^^;NNER. It is noted that the applicant gave the name of his father as Morris Metropolitan. You have told us that Morris Metro- politan was your father, and now will you state whether or not on that application you gave the name of Morris Metropolitan as your father ?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Tavenner, will you refresh my recollection as to the witness' testimony about when he started to use the name of Mates instead of his original name ?
Mr. Tavenner. Thirty years ago ; about 1925.
Mr. SciiERER. I thought that was the testimony, and this passport is dated when ?
Mr. Tavenner. 1937.
Mr. ScHERER. It looks like we have a little perjury here, do we not?
Mr. Ta^tsnner. Mr. Mates, will you examine the photograph ap- pearing on the second page and state whether or not it is a photo- graph of you?
Mr. Mates. I claim the privilege not to testify against myself.
Mr. ScHERER. I think he can properly claim the fifth amendment because the statute of limitations certainly has not run as to the per- jury committed a few minutes ago.
Ml-. Ta^t:nner. I would like for you to examine the top of page 2 of tliis passport application, please, sir.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
Do you see there the names of certain countries that are designated by the applicant as the countries which he desires to visit ? Will you look at that?
Mr. Mates. I have seen it.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you see the names ?
Mr. Mates. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. \Vliat countries are named there ?
Mr. Mates. England and France.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you look and see if right opposite those coun- tries appears the purpose for which the trip was desired to be taken by the applicant ? I believe it states, "Business."
Mr. Mates. It does.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that correct?
Mr. Mates. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat business did you have to conduct in France or England in 1937?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. PoLLiTT. Mr. Tavenner, I submit that the question assumes a fact not in evidence.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 167
Mr. Doyle. May I state to counsel that under our rules, because of tlie shortage of time, and for other reasons, our rules do not allow counsel to address the committee, such as you have just started to do. We realize this is your first appearance.
Mr. Tavenner. I will change the form of the question, Mr. Chair- man.
Did you have any business that you desired to conduct in France or England in 1937 ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify and be a witness against myself.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you visit England in 1937 under this pass- port?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason, I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you visit France ?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason, I invoke my same privilege again.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, actually, Mr. Mates, in March of 1937 you desired to go to Europe for the purpose of serving in the military forces in Spain, the civil w^ar there, didn't you?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself in that matter.
Mr. Tavenner. Actually, you filed this application for passport in order that you might get from France to Spain; isn't that true?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason, I will invoke my claimed privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Taa^nner. It is noted at the bottom of page 2 of the applica- tion there is an affidavit of an identifying witness, Abraham Dick- stein, who stated that he had known you for a period of 10 years.
When did you first become acquainted with Mr. Dickstein?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to answer the question and testify against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same Abraham Dickstein who w^as a Com- munist Party candidate for presidential elector in New Jersey in 1936?
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photostatic copy of the pass- port application of March 18, 1937, in evidence and asked it to be marked "Mates Exhibit No. 1."
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked.
(Document referred to above was marked "Mates Exhibit No. 1" iind received in evidence.)
168 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA MATES EXmr.IT NO. 1
jifiis;;;i;#iilpil£iii^^^
F iiSi<^^^ ^^ .■,l>-r-*|jr\11^
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 169 MATES EXHIBIT NO. 1
170 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of another applica- tion for passport, bearing the date the 3d day of January 1938, with a notation stamped on it that a passport was issued January 4, 1938, by the vice consul of the United States in Paris, France.
This application shows that it was authorized for immediate return to tlie United States. Will you examine the second page, please, and state whether or not the signature you find there of David Metropoli- tan is your signature?
Mr. Mates. I think that I will claim the privilege under the fifth amendment, and it would apply to this answer as well.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you examine the first page of the applica- tion, a little above the middle of the page, and state wdiether or not there is a statement on the application by the applicant that since his naturalization he has resided outside the United States in France, from April 5, 1937, to April 12, 1937. Do you see that?
Mr. Mates. Yes.
Mr. Ta^-enner. In Spain from April 12, 1937, to December 11, 1937, and in France from December 11, 1937, to the date of the application. Do you see that information there?
Mr. Mates. I see it on the form.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Does that statement in the application correctly recite the facts with regard to your residence outside of the United States since your naturalization?
Mr. Mates. I again claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the photograph appearing on the second page and state whether or not it is a photograph of you ?
Mr. Mates. 1 will have to decline to answer on the grounds of protection I have under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that a reference is given by you or by the applicant on this application to Mr. Morris Oken, 136 East 28th Street, New York City. Is Mr. Oken your father-in-law?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr, Mates. A Morris Oken, currently deceased, was my father-in- law.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Was that his address that I gave you in 1936 ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr, Mates. I don't recall the address.
Mr. Tavenner. Your wife's name was Lydia Oken ; was it not ?
Mr. Mates. Yes ; that is my wife's maiden name.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 171
Mr. Tavexner. She is the daughter of Mr. Morris Oken?
Mr. Mates. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the identifying witness to your application is Mr. Irving Schwab, who gives as his residence Hotel dii Louvre, Paris, France, and that he states in this identifying affi- davit that he has knoAMi you for a period of 6 years.
Will you tell the committee, please, how you became acquainted with Mr. Irving Schwab ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. JVL^TES. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to answer, and not to testifying about knowing Mr. Schwab.
Mr. Tavener. Is he the same Mr. Irving Schwab who was can- didate on the Communist Party ticket in 1936 for judge of the Court of Appeals for the State of New York?
Mr. Mates. I don't know. I couldn't answer the question, and I don't know whether he was or not.
Mr. Tavenner. What was Mr. Schwab's business in Paris in 1938, at the time of his execution of the affidavit of identifying witness on this application for passport?
(Witness consulated counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment and decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Leonard Lamb, of the Abraham Lincoln Battalion, publicly credited Mr. Irving Schwab with making it possible for numerous veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Battalion to reenter this country. Was this the business in which Mr. Schwab was engaged when you met him in Paris ?
Mr. Mates. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what Mr. Schwab did to make it possible for veterans to return to the United States, if you know ?
Mr, Mates. I do not know.
Mr. Taa^nner. Why was it necessary that you secure a passport to return to the United States when you were given a passport in the United States to travel to Europe ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I still claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the application for passport of January 3, 1938, in evidence, and ask it be marked as "Exhibit No. 2.'^
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked, without objection.
(Document referred to above was marked "Mates Exhibit No. 2," and received in evidence.
172 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
MATES EXHIBIT NO.
(PAKT I)
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 173 MATES EXHIBIT NO. 2
174 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tayenxer. "Slv. Mates, the committee's investigation has dis- closed that passports were taken up on arrival of recruits m Spam, and that in some instances these same passports were used by other persons in coming to Spain.
Do you have any knowledge of that practice?
Mr. :Mates. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to answer that question.
:Mr. TA^^3NNER. Mr. Mates, you have refused to answer any ques- tions that I have asked you regarding your participation in the civil war in Spain. But I desire to confront you with an item taken from the Januai-v 27, 1949, issue of the Daily Worker, in which you are quoted by Mr. William Allan, as having declared that on about Janu- ary 26, 1949, in this article, that you had fought in Spain.
i desire to explain the article to you a little more fully. This is an article entitled, "Detroit Unionists Assail Split in World Labor," and it begins with this statement :
Labor leaders here denounced tlie withdrawal of the CIO from the World Federation of Trade Unions. They urged CIO President Philip Murray to reverse the action taken by CIO Secretary-Treasury James B. Carey.
And then it quotes what various labor leaders have to say, including you. This is the paragraph relating to you :
David Mates, CIO industrial union organizer declared, "As one who fought in Spain and saw what divided labor ranks mean in Europe, I say pour the pro- tests into the CIO so that Carey and Murray will not get away with this."
Were you correctly quoted by Mr. William Allan in that article?
Mr. Mates. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the article in evidence and asked that it be marked as "Mates Exhibit No. 3."
JSIr. Doyle. It is so received and so marked.
(Document referred to was marked "Mates Exhibit No. 3" and re- ceived in evidence.)
COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES ITs THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 175 MATES EXHIBIT NO. 3 Daily Worker, January 27, 1949, p. 6
Detroit Unionists Assail Split in World Labor
By Willukm Allan
DETROIT, Jan. 26.-Labor leaders here d^iounced the withdrawal of .tfie CIO from the World Federation of Trade Unions. They urged CIO president Philip Murray to reverse the action taken by CIO secretary
treasurer James B. Carey.
Jerome Shore, regional director, United PubUc Workers, condemned "this disgraceful business of Carey speaking ostensibly for millions of us and splitting the world's work- ing classes. It should not go im- challenged, Murray should be told to send him back in and stay in."
David Miller, president. United Auto Workers, Cadillac Local 22, said: "There is nothing to justify this walkout unless someone wants war. By all means we will let Murray know how much we resent this."
Mort Fiu^y, regional director, United Public Workers, declared: "Ujiity of the world's working class against a third world war is at stake here. We will notify Murray how we feel and ask him to order Carey back in."
Chris Alston, UAW Negro leader from Packard Local 190, assailed
anti-imperialist front of the world's working class in this crucial period. He said Carey's action "must be rescinded."
Dave Mates, CIO Industrial Union organizer, declared: "As one who fought in Spain and saw what divided labor ranks means in Eu- rope, I say pour the protests into CIO" so that "Carey and Murray will not get away with this."
Vigil Lacey, president. Tool and
Die Unit, Ford Local 600, said:
Labor was imited during the war
and following the war and nxust be
kept that way now."
Fred Williams, business agent, UAW Local 208, assailed the walk- out as "a disgraceful action that the rank and file must rescind by its protests."
PreM Roandap, a •ammarj of editorial comment in the metro- poUtan preks, appears each dmj
the action as a "weakening of the in the Dailj Worker,
176 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Ta\'enner. Are you acquainted with William Allan? (Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. Yes, as a newspaperman, I am acquainted with him.
Mr. ScHERER. You said you were acquainted with him as a news- paperman. Is that the only way that you were acquainted with him?
Mr. Mates. That is right, sir. What was the question, Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. Is that the only way you were acquainted with Allan? (Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I misunderstood the question of Mr. Scherer. I said that 1 was acquainted with Mr. Allan as a newspaperman.
Mr. Scherer. And now my question is simply this, Is that the only way that you are acquainted with Mr. Allan, namely as a newspaper- man ?
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Scherer. I kind of thought that you would. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that question that I asked, namely, if that was the only way that he was acquainted with Mr. Allan.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Mates, I instruct you to answer that last question.
Mr. Mates. I will answer it in the manner I did before, I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself on this question asked me by Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, when the witness answers the ques- tion that he was acquainted with him as a newspaperman, and then invokes the fifth amendment when I ask him if that is the only way he was acquainted with him, he is clearly in contempt because he has waived his right with respect to that question to use the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Mates, you have told us that you have used the name David IMates since 1925, and that you considered it was your legal name from that time on. Why was it that the name of David Metropolitan was used in these applications for passport?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't the real reason the fact that you desired to deceive the State Department and to conceal from the State Depart- ment your true identity in making application for passport ?
Mr.' Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment in that and not answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Abraham Dickstein and Mr. Irving Schwab know you by any name other than David Mates in 1937 and 1938?
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. How did you induce them to be a party to this de- ception of the State Department?
COMMUIsTIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 177
Mr. Mates, I decline to answer for the same reason given.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Now, isn't it also true that you furnished false information to the State Department in stating that you desired to travel in France and England as a device to conceal your real purpose for going to Euro])e ?
Mr. ]\L\TES. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment in not answering the question.
Mr. TA^^NXER. Mr. Mates, will you tell the committee, please, how you were recruited, or under what circumstances you enlisted for mili- tary service in Spain ?
Mr. IVIates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment and not testify against myself.
Mr. TAVE>rNER. Were you given a medical examination prior to your leaving the United States ?
Mr. Mates. For the same reason I will decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenxer. Were you a member of the Communist Party on March 18, 1937, the date of application of David Metropolitan for a passport to travel in England and France on business ?
Mr. Mates. Well, I think when it comes into this area of discussing my political beliefs and associations, I will stand on my right of the first and fifth amendments to refuse to testify in these matters.
Mr. Ta\t^nner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an excerpt from the August 15, 1936, issue of the Daily Worker. That is entitled "Illinois in Drive To Put Communist Party on the Ballot."
This article states :
Eight leaders of the Communist Party in this city have pledged that by tomorrow they wiU collect 700 signatures to put the Communist Party on the ballot. These leaders, all section organizers, have decided to spur the members of the party to greater efforts in the signature campaign by the example of their own a(?hievement. Those who signed the pledge * * *
and a number of persons are stated, including "David Mates, section 5."
Will you examine the article, please, and state whether or not you were one of the leaders, as an organizer of section 5 of the Communist Party, who signed the petition as stated in that article ?
(Document was handed to the witness.)
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. For the same reason that when it comes to political affiliations and beliefs, I will invoke the privilege of the first and fifth amendments, and I think that it is clear that it is an invasion of the civil rights of people to question people about political beliefs and affiliations. I invoke the first and fifth and refuse to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask it to be marked as "Mates Exhibit No. 4."
Mr. Doyle. So received and so marked, without objection.
(Document referred to was marked "Mates ExhilJit No. 4" and re- ceived in evidence.)
178 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
MATES EXHIBIT NO. 4 Daily Worker, August 15, 1936, p. 2
Illinois in Drive To Put C.P. on Ballot
CHICAGO, 111., Aug. 14.— Eight leaders of the Commu- nist Party in this city have pledged that by tomorrow they will collect 700 signatures to put the Communist Party on the ballot.
These leaders, all section organizers, have decided to
spur the members of the party to^
greater efforts In the signature campaign by the example of their own achievement.
Thoee who have signed the pledge are Harry Shaw, Section 1; Joe Race, Section 3; O. Carlquist, Sec- tion 4: Dave Mates, Section 5; Pear- son, Section 6; Harry Haywood, Sec- tion 7; Martin Ruddy, Section 8; G. Paulson, Section 11; H. Lawrence, Section 12.
Increased efforts during the past few days have resulted in the com- pletion of the quota in six counties outside of Chicago. Present results indicate that 3,00 signatures have been raised in Chicago and about a similar number in other counties.
Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a photostatic copy of excerpts from pages 1 and 3 of the February 17, 1930, issue of the Daily Worker. This article is entitled "Demonstrate at the Stockyards," and the article refers to a demonstration in the Chicago stockyards, led by, and I quote :
Member.s of the Unemployed Council of the Trade Union Unity League, and the members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to read into the record two paragraphs from this document.
Mr. Doyle. Without objection, proceed. Mr. Tavenner (reading) :
While the unemployed workers were gathering at the door of the Swift em- ployment office, Dave Mates, section organizer of the Communist Party, mounted a running l)oard of a car and addre.'^sed the workers. At the same time banners demanding "work or wages," calling upon the workers to demonstrate on Inter- national Unemployment Day, and urging the workers to join the Communist Party and the Trade Union Unity League were mifurled by the workers.
No sooner did the speaker call upon the workers to fight against unemployment, when the police pulled him off the car and led him away from the gathering. C. A. Hathaway, district organizer of the Communist Party, immediately took the speaker's place and urged the workers to follow the leadership of the Com- munists and TUUL in the struggle against unemployment.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 179
Does that refresh your recollection, Mr. Mates, as to the occurrence in February of 1930 ^in Chicago?
Mr. ]^Iates. For the reason giyen, I will decline to ans^Yer for the reason of the first and fifth amendments, I will not discuss my political beliefs and affiliations, and it is quite noteworthy we are talking about 1930. There were a couple of unemployed in those days.
Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, sir, and at that" time, you were section organ- izer of the Communist Party in Chicago, were you not?
Mr. Mates. I take the position that as far as my political beliefs and mv conscience, that is my most cherished possession, and I am not go- ing to share it, and I claim the first and fifth amendment priyilege, not to discuss those.
Mr. Tavenxer. Were you also section organizer in 1936?
Mr. ScHERER. You are* not being asked about your political beliefs, you are asked whether the police pulled you off an automobile. Has that anything to do with your political beliefs?
Mr. Mates. Mr. Scherer, I am not a very smart lawyer, but I also knoAv little tricks and traps when I see them and I am standing on my right not to divulge my political beliefs and my religious beliefs and my conscience with Congress, or with anybody else. That is what you are asking me. I decline to do it.
^Ir. Doyle. We are not asking about your political beliefs or your religious beliefs, we are asking you whetlier or not you were an officer and leader of the Communist Party of the United States on that oc- casion. That is what we are asking you. What has that got to do with religion? I did not know they had much religion in the Com- munist Party. I had never heard of any.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavexxer. I also call your attention, jSIr. Mates, to an article entitled " 'Union Label' Fascists in Chicago," by David Mates. It is an article over the name of D. Mates. It appears in the March 5, 1930, i&sue of the Daily Worker.
May I hand it to vou and ask you whether or not you were the writer of that article?
( Document handed to witness. )
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will use my privilege of the fifth amendment to decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Chairman, I desire to read two paragraphs in the record from this document :
"Union Label" Fascists in Chicago by D. Mates
The Social-Fascists of the American Federation of Labor of Chicago are sliow- ing their true colors more clearly than ever before. Especially now, when the workers of Chicago are displaying the greatest militancy and when the Com- munist Party and the Trade Union Unity League are intensifying their activities and spreading their Influence over larger numbers of workers in the basic indus- tries, are the fakers of the Fitzpatrick-Nelson Chicago Federation of Labor ma- chine openly coming to tlie aid of the Capitalist class in an attempt to stem the growing influence of the Communists and the revolutionary trade unions of the Trade Union Unity League.
The open Fascist role played by the leaders of the Chicago Federation of Labor as seen in several events of recent date, will only help to mobilize the militant workers in a struggle to defeat and destroy these Social-Fascists and to build and strengthen the revolutionary trade union center — the Trade Union Unity League.
180 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, at this point, without objection, may the committee recess for 5 minutes ?
Mr, Tavexner. May I ask one question following that statement first?
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not at that time you were identified with the Trade Union Unity League, of which this article speaks?
Mr. Mates. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you still consider the American Federation of Labor as a Fascist organization, as stated in this article ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. ]\L^TES. I do not consider the American Federation of Labor by any characterization such as that today.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you at that time, at the time of the article, did you consider the A. F. of L. a Fascist organization ?
Mr. JVL^TES. I will claim the privilege of the first and fifth amend- ments not to discuss my political beliefs, or any other private beliefs of 25 years ago.
Mr. ScHERER. I ask, Mr. Chairman, that you direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr, Doyle. I instruct the witness to answer the question,
Mr, Mates, The question being whether I believe it then, is that a question ?
Mr, Scherer, To be a Fascist organization, yes,
Mr, Doyle, Apparently you wrote the article.
Mr, Mates, I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr, Doyle, The committee will stand in recess for not over 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
(Members present at the taking of the recess were Eepresentatives Doyle, Frazier, and Scherer. )
(Members of the committee present at the time of the reconvening were Representatives Doyle, Frazier, and Scherer.)
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order and let the record show that the full membership of the subcommittee is present.
Proceed, Mr, Tavenner,
Mr, Tavenner. Mr, Mates, in the 3 articles, portions of which I have read into the record, your activity in matters connected with the Trade Union Unity League were quite apparent, if they represent correct facts.
Because of your connection with the matters reported in those articles I want to ask you whether or not your own union at that time, in 1930, was affiliated with the Trade Union Unity League ?
Mr. Mates. The United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America was founded in 1950 and was affiliated only with the CIO, to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but I am speaking now of the period in 1930. Were you a member of a trade union in 1930 ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr, Mates, I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify in regard to this matter.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 181
]Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that question.
JNIr. Doyle. You are instructed to answer, Mr. Mates.
Mr. Mates, My answer was that I claim the privileoe of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself and be a witness against my- self in regards to this matter.
Mr. TA^^:KXER. Is that because the union with which you were asso- ciated was affiliated with the Trade Union Unitj^ League?
Mr. Mates. The same answer to this question, for the same reasons given.
Mr. Taatexner. It may be improper to leave the inference here that you were a member of a trade union at that time, if you were not. According to these documents which I have read, you were a func- tionary in the Communist Party at that time. It is not likely that you would have been a member of a union and a functionary in the party at the same time.
Will you clear that up for us, as to whether or not you were a member of a union at that time, in 1930 ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. INIates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify as to my membership.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. You are so instructed, ISIr. IMates.
Mr. IMates. Mr. Doyle, I am answering the question the best way I know how, and I am claiming the privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself as to membership in the Trade Union Unity League.
Mr. Scherer. It cannot possibly be incriminating to be a member of a trade union, and if it coidd the statute of limitations Avould run.
Mr. Mates. Mr. Scherer, you say it is not incriminating, but today we have a situation where one man, Attorney General, labels every- thing he doesn't like as subversive, in the face of fact, and I am not a lawyer but it would seem to me I shouldn't be a witness against myself.
Mr. Scherer. I d(m"t think the Attorney General does that, and if he does it has nothing to do with the question that was asked you, because no action of the Attorney General at this date could possibly do any- thing to harm you in any way as it pertains to the answers as to whether or not you were a member of a trade union in 1930.
Mr, Tavenner. The December 25, 1929, issue of the Daily Worker carries an article entitled "Textile Youth Meet and Plan to Win Masses." This article desf-ribes a meetiiig of delegates in New Bed- ford of the Textile Youth Conference of the National Textile Workers Union, In the course of the article there is a reference to reports made, discussed, and adopted on Trade Union Unity League Youth Department.
That report was made, according to this article, by D. Mates. Will you examine the last paragraph of the article and state whether or not you made a report on the Youth Department of the Trade Union Unity League at that time ? Will you answer the question, please ?
Mr. Mates, I am waiting until counsel gets through reading it.
(Witness consulted counsel.)
I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself in that matter.
182 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. The date of that report, Mr. Mates, by quick computa- " tion, shows that you were about 22 years of age at that time. Do you remember that birthday.
Mr. Mates. I remember I must have been that age at that year.
jNIr. D0Y1.E. So you were still a youth '?
Mr. Mates. I am still a young man now.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Mr. Mates, in recent hearings in Seattle just a few weeks ago, Mr. Eugene Dennett turned over to the committee staff a document entitled, ''The Trade Union Unity League, the American Section of the Red International of Labor Unions," and this organiza- tion of which 3'OU were reported in this article to have sponsored the Youth Department thereof, had affiliated with many of the labor unions at that time.
I want to read a part of that document put out by the Trade LTnion Unity League, and I read this paragraph :
The national center of the revolntionary industrial union movement in the United States is the Trade Union Unity League, organized in Cleveland August 31, 1929. The TUUL coordinates and binds all of the revolutionary union forces into one united organization. It leads and directs the general struggle of the new union movement. It is the American section of the Red International of Labor Unions.
Due to the fact that your name has been prominently mentioned in about four documents that I have read here in connection with the ac- tivities of that organization, I want to ask you to tell the committee what you know of its organization.
So my first question to you about it is. Were you identified with it ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I thought I answered the question. I claim the privi- lege of the fifth amendment not to testify against myself on that matter, and I repeat again.
]Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to read into the record another paragraph from this document. It reads as follows — it is on j)age 28
Mr. Doyle. May I ask what document you are reading ?
Mr. Tavenner. The Trade Union Unity League, American section oftheRILU:
The Trade Union Unity League fights militantly against the impending capital- ist war and for the defense of the Soviet Union. Its slogan is : Not a man, not a cent, not a gun for imperialist war. It seeks to mobilize the great masses of workers against war by organizing strikes, demonstrations, etc., in conjunction with all militant organizations fighting against war. In the event of an im- perialist war it will mobilize the workers to struggle against American impe- rialism and to transform this war into a class war against the capitalist system itself. The TUUL devotes special attention to organizing the workers in the war industries.
The Trade Union Unity League especially organizes and educates the masses to fight in defense of the Soviet Union.
Did vou understand those principles to be the guiding principles of the TUUL?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify in regard to this matter.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not within your experience you found that the Trade Union Unity League after years of effort was unable to sell the Communist Party under a Com-
COJSUMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 183
miinist label to the rank-and-file members of the unions which were affihated with it ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I am not too clear as to the question or its intent.
Mr. Tavexxer. I will try to break it down so that there can't be any question about understanding it.
Was the Trade Union Unity League able to sell communism to the rank-and-file members of the unions by use of the Communist label which it was giving in this pamphlet ^
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to discuss this problem and testify in regard to the matter.
]Mr. Tavexxer. When did the Trade Union Unity League go out of existence ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. JNIates. Frankly, I can't recall when the Trade Union Unity League went out of business.
Mr. Tavexxer. Wasn't it about 1935 ?
Mr. iVLvTES. I would think so, with the mass production industries.
Mr. TA^■EXXER. Didn't it go out of business for the vevy reason I indicated, which was that it couldn't sell communism under a Com- munist label to the rank-and-file members of labor ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
]Mr. ?»1ates. I will have to claim the privilege because I cannot testify in regard to this matter.
Mr. DoYT.E. As I understand it, ]\Ir. ]Mates, this pamphlet from which Mr. Tavenner read was a declaration by the Trade Union Unity League back in 1929 ; is that correct ?
Mr. Mates. As I understand it, and I don't know the date, that is what he implied it was.
Mr. Doyle. In that declaration they declared for and in support of the Soviet Union, in preference to the United States of America. That was their express language as you heard it read.
I do not care about your political beliefs, 1 am not interested in them, and it is not the purpose of this committee, but the thing that amazes me is your refusal to help us understand anything in connec- tion with that organization, with which you are manifestly expe- rienced ; it is my conclusion that back in 1929 to 1935 you were identi- fied with this Trade Union Unity movement. Do I understand that even though they declared in favor of the Soviet Union as distin- guished against your own adopted country, if you did adopt it, by reason of your father's naturalization, if he was naturalized, do I understand that you are refusing to help your own Congress under- stand the extent to Avhich the Red trade unions and the Soviet Union ■were undertaking to control the unions in the United States ? Isn't that what your answer amounts to?
Mr. Mates. I understood the question was: "Why did the Trade T'uion Unity League go out of business in or around' 1935?"
Mr. Doyle. Perhaps my question was too long. I intended my statement to be a combination of a statement and a question.
In other words, I am asking you if it is not a fact that when you refuse to tell us anything about the Trade Union Unity League, which was manifestly initiated into this country from Russia, you are re- fusing to help your own Congress understand the extent to which
184 COIVUVIUNIST activities in the fort WAYNE, IND., AREA
Soviet communism was then undertaking to infiltrate tlie unions in tlie United States. Is that not the situation, in spite of the fact that this constitution and bylaws and statement emanating from the So- viet communism policy clearly declares in favor of the Soviet Union as contrasted to our own country, and your own country ?
"\Anien you refuse to tell us anythin2: about your experiences in that, and the extent to which the Soviet Union Communist Party was infiltrating, or trying to infiltrate, for instance the Youth De])artment of which you were apparently an active leader, you are refusing to help your own Congress get at the inside of what the Soviet Union was then doing to control American labor. Is that not where it leavf s vou, as an American labor leader ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. Mr. Doyle, in claiming my fifth amendment privilege not to discuss an organization which the counsel has attempted to discuss time and time and time again, which existed somewhere in 1929 through 1935, you are im]:)Ugning some motives to me as far as my loyalty, and as far as my devotion to the interests of labor, and I have been a member of the trade-union movement for a long, long time, AFL, and CIO, and the
]\Ir. ScHERER. Are you a member of the Communist Party today?
Mr. Mates. I am trying to answer a question. Is that a question within a question ?
INIr. ScHERER. Just suspend the other question for a while. Are you a member of the Communist Party today ?
IMr. Mates. Were you withdrawing your question ? I can't answer two questions.
Mr. Doyle. I will withdraw mine temporarily.
Mr, Mates, Mr. Scherer, you know that I have told you at the very beginning that I claim the privilege of the first amendment, which guarantees to the people of this countiy the right of free speech and free assembly, and unmolested and unabridged by Congress or anvone else, and you are asking me a question of political beliefs and affilia- tions.
Mr. Scherer. You just said that we were impugning your loyalty and good citizenship and so on. I was wondering whether you were still a member of the party today.
Mr, Mates. I am answering your question, that on the basis of the constitutional guaranties which is the very foundation of our demo- cratic society, I am not obliged to discuss with the Congress or anyone else my political beliefs or affiliations, and surely not in the face of a committee that sets that as a goal, to trap a person who has been active for labor, and I am going to refuse to answer your question on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
IVIr. DoYT.E. May I state that we are not out to set a trap for any leader of labor, or any other leader. We are interested in exposing and divuliring the leaders of the Communist subversive movement in this country, whether it is in labor or wherever it is.
We are going to adjourn in just a few minutes for luncheon hour, but may I say to you that as an American citizen, one of the men that has always endorsed election by organized labor, both CIO and AFL in my State, m California, I am always amazed when you admitted leaders of organized labor, whether it is your union or any other union, sometime refuse in one way or another to cooperate with
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 185
Congress in giving Congress the basic history of the effort in the United States of the Soviet Commnnist Party to control hibor unions.
Mr. Mates. If you say you are endorsed by organized hibor, then I want to ask you, Do you not know that organized labor from the very beginning, from 1938 on, has been on record against the witch hunts of the Un-American Activities Committee, and as late as 1954 here is the official statement of the UAW-CIO, saying the Un-American Activities Committee should be abolished, and all Americans should work for its abolition.
Mr. Doyle. I undei-stand that is your declaration.
Mr. Mates. Not mine, I said the UAW-CIO.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, about 2 years ago Walter Reuther came out with a publication which no doubt you read, and which I put in the record of the hearings in Seattle. I do not have it on my desk here today. Mr. Walter Reuther made a public declaration in which he urged the leaders of labor, as far as they possibly could, conscientiously, to not plead the hfth amendment and to not claim the fifth amend- ment, but to cooperate with this very committee.
That was about 2 j'ears ago, because I read Mr. Reuther's statement. I don't understand that Mr. Reuther, for instance, the national leader of CIO, claims that this is a witch-hunting committee now. I know that the Communist dominated or infiltrated unions in this country still do.
Mr. Mates. Would you like some statements for the record of arch- bishops and presidents of CIO and AFL, and records from the Con- gress, conventions of the AFL and CIO, and I can give you it.
Mr. Doyle. That is back history.
Mr. Mates. 1950 isn't back history.
Mr. Doyle. That is 5 years ago. The functioning of this committee is quite different in some ways than it was 5 years ago, and you brought in a lot of back history. It is antiquated, and particularly as far as the procedures of this committee are concerned.
It is not witch hunting, but we are hunting ways and means to better legislate to defeat the Connnunist conspiracy.
Mr. Scherer. I would not say the procedures have changed that much. I think some people have become enlightened because of the light that this committee has thrown on this subject.
Mr. Doyle. That is quite so.
Mr. Mates. The three public papers in Detroit said regarding it that the purpose of the hearing here was to see the role of Connnunists in the Square D strike, and was an infiltrated strike, was for illegitimate objectives, and you have not subpenaed a single worker from the plant, nor the management.
Mr. Doyle. Sometimes there are erroneous statements even in news- papers.
Afr. Scherer. We would like to know whether you were still a mem- ber of tlie Communist Party?
Mr. Doyle. Just before we adjourn for luncheon, Mr. Mates, let me see if I understand the situation as far as you are concerned. I am not assuming anything, and I am just reading the record.
186 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
I think that you testified that you started to commence using the name of David Mates about 30 years ago, in 1925. That is correct,
is it not ?
Mr. Mates. I testified to that extent; yes, sir. nr^i.
Mr Doyle. And that you investigated and found under the Illinois law tiiat was O. K., and you didn't have to go into court and change
"^^Thircopv of a passport under the name of David Metropolitan, which was handed you by our distinguished counsel has a Pi9^^ire on t which seems to resemble you quite a lot, although you didn't identify it as your picture. I would identify it as your picture, to be frank
^' This copy shows that you were born in Russia, April 13, 1907. It show« that your father was born in Russia, too. It shows that at the time of these passport documents, dated when the passport was ssued ^larch 18, 1937, many years after 1925, you used the name of DavkvSpolitan. ' You did not tell the State Department that vou had ever claimed to have legally taken the name of David Mates. There is no reference to David Mates. He does not exist as tar as this passport application or records are concerned.
That is even though in 1925 you claim that you changed your name and commonly used that name. ..li-^/i
Many years later you did not tell the State Department that, and then again on the ot^her passport paper, you again used the name ot David Metropolitan and showed you were born m Russia, and your father was born in Russia and showed you were living at the Hotel Minerva, in Paris, in connection with your business to I^ ranee, l^ng-
^'^ It showedXe 'address of your father-in-law now deceased. Again you never used the name David Mates. Why didn't you? Wliy didn't you tell yoUr own Government, your State Department, that you were known under the name of David Mates ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. Wliat had you to hide or to conceal ^ ^ .-n -,
Mr Mates. Mr. Doyle, the answer to your question, I have testihed here as to the facts, and I invoke my right under the fifth amendment not to testify against myself. These things speak for themselves.
Mr. Doyle. But these two passport documents, as I take it, are deliberately in contravention of your own sworn testimony.
But my impression is that these written documents signed by you and with your picture on them, are in contravention of your own sworn testimony, and if you have an honest explanation this may be a situation where you should give it. ,, , ,. -n i ^^
Mr Mates. Mr. Doyle, I don't think that the testimony will show that i testified that I had never used the name before m my lite, before, since or after. I simply told Mr. Tavenner when he asked me, what my name was, and I gave it to him, and he said did 1 have a prior name, and I said, "Yes," and that appears m my selective- service application and everywhere else, and then he didnt ask me did I ever cease using anv other name, and now you make a big to-clo that at a certain point somebody, or I, or it wasn't testified to, used the name again. -, p -i t ^
I never testified that I had never used my family name. I never <lid, and the testimony won't show it in the record.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 187
Mr. Doyle. Well, the record speaks for itself.
Mr. Mates. I think it does.
Mr. Doyle. I felt it was rather important to call your attention to the fact as to how the record speaks. And now you are perfectly willing to let it stand that way, and that is O. K. by me.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Mates, we were talking about the Trade Union Unity League going out of existence in 1935. You refused to com- ment on the reason for it, which I asserted as being that it was un- successful in selling the Communist Party line under the Communist label to the rank and file members of labor unions.
Now, I want to ask you this question : Isn't it true that since that organization went out of existence around 1935, that the Communist Party has still endeavored to accomplish the same objectives by the method, however, of infiltrating the leadership of labor unions?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will have to claim the privilege and I am not in a position to answer what the great strategy was, and of my own knowledge I can't answer your question, and I will have to claim the privilege of the fifth to testify in regard to the whole thing.
]Mr. Tavenner. You say of your own knowledge, you can't answer. Well now, you have been an important labor leader since 1943, ac- cording to your testimony, in United Electrical, Kadio, and Machine Workers of America.
During that period of time, have you observed any effort on the part of the Communist Party to infiltrate the leadership in your union ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. ^Iates. I have been a member, as I indicated, of the AFL and of the CIO, and of the electrical workers, and I know that as far as you are talking about, your question was formulated around 12 3'ears of membership in the UE, and all I can tell you is that the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers is a legitimate labor organization, under the meaning of the Federal statute, and run by its membership and they do legitimate trade union problems, just as in the Square D strike, there was no pushbutton strike from Mos- cow, or Xew York, but it was people who struck for a living wage, for their contract, and if that is subversive in your mind, and that makes it infiltration, and it makes it the Communist conspiracy, it is just too unfortunate.
^Ir. Sciierer. I submit the witness has not answered the question.
Mr. Mates. What is the question ? I didn't get it.
Mr. Scherer. Apparently not. Will you read the question?
^Ir. Doyle. Before that question is read, may I make it clear, Mr. Elates, we know that you feel you are under aii obligation to make a record here that you can show the union and others.
But this committee does not hold or believe either directly or in- directly tliat legitimate labor-union striking is subversive.
Mr. ]\Iates. Your members have stated it publicly in tlic press time and time again, and the whole country took it up.
Mr. I)oYLE. That is a misstatement. No voluntary statement by a <ommittee member is tlie voice of all tlie committee members when "the statement has been authorized to be made.
188 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Proceed, Mr. Keporter, but I want the record to show that you are making a wrong statement, and the committee doesn't believe anything of the kind.
(Question read by reporter.)
Mr. Doyle. If any member of the committee makes a statement like that, he makes it without the express authority of the committee.
Mr. Mates. The chairman of the committee has some powers, and he has made statements like that time and time again.
Mr. ScHERER. He did not make that kind of a statement. I am very familiar with the statement made by the chairman of the com- mittee.
Mr. Mates. He went beyond strikebreaking, he is out to destroy this union entirely, and what law gives him that authority? Does Public Law 601 give him that authority? What law does he base that on ?
Mr. Scherer. He is out to destroy the Coimnunist Party. As the chairman of the subcommittee he said he is out to destroy, as we all are if we can, the Communist influence and domination of any activity in American life.
Mr. Mates. Mr. Scherer, that is not the statement Mr. Walter made in the Congressional Record. He is out to destroy UE, period.
Mr. Doyle. It may be that the chairman feels that the UE, or some union to which he referred, whatever it was, is presently dominated by the Communist Party in America. That may be the fact, Mr. Mates. If it is, the UE owes it to its members and the people of the United States to clean house.
Mr. Mates. McCarthy tried to take the law in his hand and Francis Walter is doing the same, and he should be a law-abiding legislator and not take things in his own hands.
Mr. Doyle. He is. Let us proceed, Mr. Reporter.
After this, Mr. Tavenner, let us adjourn for luncheon.
(Question read by reporter.)
(Witness consulted counsel.)
j\Ir. Mates. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment not to testify on this score.
Mr. Doyle. Let us adjourn at this time until 1 : 30. You will please be back, Mr. Mates, at that time.
The subpenas are all continued until 1 : 30 today.
(Whereupon, the committee recessed at 12: 15 p. m., to reconvene at 1 : 30 p. m.)
after recess ^m
(Members of the committee present at the reconvening of the session were Representatives Doyle and Frazier.)
JNIr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order.
Let the record please show the presence of Mr. Frazier and Mr. Doyle, and the temporary absence for a few minutes of Mr. Scherer, of Ohio. He has just sent us word it was agreeable with him to go ahead, but 2 of the 3 is a quorum, and so we will proceed without objection.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Ta MANNER. Mr. Mates, I have before me a photostatic copy of an article appearing on page 9 of the February 10, 1934, issue of the Daily Worker, showing that there were 100 steel workers in the Gary,
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 189
Ind., Workers School. The article states that the courses and teachers are as follows :
Classes are held in History of the American Labor Movement (instructor Eugene Bechtold) ; Trade Unionism and Strike Strategy (instructor John Law- son) ; Principles of Communism (instructor, Lydia Oken) ; Principles of Com- munist Organization (instructor, Dave Mates) ; and English, Advanced (instruc- tor, Albert M. Block) ; and English, Elementary (instructor, Marguerite Glaser).
Will you examine the article and state whether or not you took part as an instructor in the subject of Communist organization, as indicated by the article?
Mr. Mates. I think my answer would be that I would invoke the first and fifth amendments in answer to the question.
Mr. TA^^NXER. I desire to present the document and ask that it be marked "Mates Exhibit No. 5," for identification only.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and marked.
(Document referred to was marked "Mates Exhibit No. 5" for identification and filed with the connnittee.) ^
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Mates, at the period, or during the period when that school was operated, in 1934, were you a functionary of the Com- munist Party for the State of Indiana?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. IMates. I think this again enters the field that I have objected to before this, prying into my political beliefs and associations, and I will claim the privilege of the first and fifth amendments not to answer the question.
yiv. Ta\'exner. Do you have any knowledge, Mr. Mates, of the establishment of similar schools to that described at (niry, Ind., at- tended by members of the United Electrical Kadio and Machine Workers of America?
Mr. Mates. I am not clear on the question. Did you say similar schools ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, similar schools.
Mr. Mates. Attended by members of what ?
Mr. Tavenxer. Of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Work- ers of America. That was a later date, of course, and not in 1934.
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. The same answer for the same reason given.
Mr. Tavenner. From your testimony, it appears that you were em- ployed by the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America in 1946. What specifically was your employment at that time?
Mr. Mates. In 1946 1 was a field organizer for the United Electrical Radio and Machine AVorkers of America in the city of Detroit, Mich., and my main preoccupation was the organizing of a plant in the city of Detroit, known as Vickers, Inc.
]Mr. Tavenner. Was there an organized gi'oup or cell of the Com- munist Party within the Vickers plant at the time you were endeav- oring to organize it ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will invoke my right under the first and fifth amend- ments and all of the provisions thereof not to answer this question.
^ Retained in committee files. * 61497—55 12
190 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr, Tavenner. The committee is in possession of sworn testimony that in 1946 various industrial groups of the Communist Party were reorganized, of course in industry. According to this testimony, there was a chib organized at the Vickers phmt known as the Vickers Chib.
Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not this club of the Communist Party served as a caucus club for union problems within the shop at Vickers ?
(Vickers consulted counsel.)
( ]Mr. Scherer entered the room. )
Mr. Mates. Well, in making the answer, Mr. Counsel, that this matter of unknown, faceless witnesses, we have information, as a imion organizer, you know very well I have a lot of enemies and my union' has many, and these dime-a-dozen so-called nameless witnesses who gave you information mean nothing to me. There is a man by the name of Harold Dahl who was in our union and today is on the man- agement side trying to bust the union. Does that mean he is an au- thoritative side, an accredited witness? You can only answer a man by facing him to himself, and by cross-examining him and that is due process, and since this committee does not practice due process of law, I am compelled to invoke the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. You say that is your reason for refusal to answer. Is that the only reason?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. The answer to your later question is that I am answer- ing this question in good faith, and relying upon the first and fifth amendments not to be a witness against myself.
]Mr. Doyle. May I make this observation, as long as this witness has said this committee does not follow due process of law. Of course, ]Mr. ]Mates we are not a court and we do not presume to be a court, nor do we presume to strictly follow the rules of evidence. We are rightly expected to be fair and just, but not to be a forum for techni- cal ]>rocedures or rules.
Mr. ]Mates. That is the unfortunate feature. A man is innocent until proven guilty in my book.
^Ir. Doyle. Labor unions don't follow the rules of evidence in their committee hearings or investigations. You could not possibly do that. This committee is not a court of law, but a committee of inquiry of fact. You have not been charged with being guilty of anything.
Mr. Mates. That is not true ; we do.
Mr. Doyle. I just wish to remind the witness that you may be as- suming something when you mentioned one individual as your enemy in the labor union. By that I mean you may be assuming something that is not a fact, so far as this committee is concerned. We have many ways that actual facts and information come to us about the activities of the Communist Party or some members of the Communist Party that are labor leaders. So we would not want you to feel that this committee only has information from 1 person or 1 dozen persons.
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not there was in existence within the Communist Party in Detroit at any time between 1946 and 1949 a committee of the Communist Party known as the labor committee ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will use my right under the first and fifth amendment not to answer the question.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 191
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time cliairman of such a committee ?
(Witness consulted counsed.)
Mr. Mates. The same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you chairman of the \ ickers Club ot the Com- munist Party at any time?
(Witness consulted counsel.) . ^ ., 4t 4.u
Mr. Mates. The same answer to this question, for the reason ot ttie first and fifth amendment. «. • i j: ^i
Mr Tavenner. Mr. Mates, did your duties as an oliiciai ot tlie United Electrical, Eadio, and Machine Workers require your attend- ance at executive committee meetings at Fort Wayne, Ind. ?
Mr. Mates. Executive meetings?
Mr. Tavenner. Meetings of district 9 ?
Mr. JVIates. Oh, yes. . .
Air Tavenner. What is the correct description of the meeting i _
Mr! Mates. Well, we have a district council set up and the district council meets in convention twice yearly and elects for a period of 1 vear a district executive board, which board meets roughly quarterly, and as international representative I do report on the progress of or- ganization to the district executive board. ^ ^ Mr Ta\t5Nner. Do vou recall having attended a meeting of the emplovees of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America at Fort Wayne in December of 1946, or January of 194^, and after the meeting there was a meeting at a farmhouse attended by you, and a number of other persons, the farmhouse being out in the country
from Fort Wayne? .^ -, , -r i i
Mr. Mates. I couldn't specifically testify whether 1 remember be- ing there. I attended verv many meetings, quarterly meetings for 4 years, and I couldn't pinpoint December of 1946 or January of 1947 and mean anything. -, -, , ., -, •
Mr. Tavenner. If such a meeting had been attended by the chair- man of the Communist Party and the secretary of the Communist Party for the State of Indiana, you would recall that, wouldn't you ?
Mr. Mates. Attended a meeting of the district executive board?
Mr. Tavenner. Xo: a meeting made up of persons who had at- tended that district meeting.
Mr. PoLLrrr. Could I have the question again?
Mr. Tavenner. My question was whether or not you would now recall the meeting to which I referred, if the chairman and the secre- tary of the Communist Party for the State of Indiana had been present ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I don't get it.
Mr. TA^^5NNER. I am trying to refresh your recollection.
Air. Mates. You asked* me if I would remember if I told you something?
Air. Tavenner. Do you remember the meeting, since I have men- tioned the attendance of those two persons?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Air. AIates. I am going to claim the privilege of the fir^^t and fifth amendment not to answer this question.
Air. Taw>nner. Do you know Elmer Johnson? (Witness consulted counsel.)
192 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Mates. I shall invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment and decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavennek. Do yon know Henry Aron 'i
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. IVIates. Can you identify the person further?
Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes, Henry Aron was secretary of the Connnunist Party for the State of Indiana in 1946.
jMr. Mates. I shall invoke the privilege of the first and fifth amend- ments not to answer the question.
Mr. Ta-stnner. Did you attend any meeting at which Elmer John- son and Henry Aron, or either of them were present in the vicinity of Fort Wayne in 1946 or 1947 ?
Mr. Mates. I shall rely upon the first and fifth amendments not to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. After the beginning of the Square D strike in 1954, did you confer with any functionary of the Communist Party relative to the progi-ess of that strike ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will invoke the first and fifth amendment and refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Mates, there appeared before this committee as a witness in Detroit on May 4, 1954, a person by the name of Harold M, Mikkelsen. He served for a number of years as an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the city of Detroit, and he was one of the Government witnesses in the Detroit Smith Act case. Mr. Mikkelsen was asked the question as to whether or not he knew David Mates as a member of the Communist Party, to which he replied that he did, and that he met with David Mates at a state- wide meeting of the Communist Party in 1949, at 2705 Joy Koad. Were you acquainted with Mr. Mikkelsen?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I have to invoke the first and fifth amendments in answer to this question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the Communist Party in 1949, at 2705 Joy Koad ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will have to again claim the privilege of the first and fifth and not answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1949 ?
(Witness consvdted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I have to again decline for the same reasons.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Milton Joseph Santwire was a witness before this committee on April 28, 1954, in Detroit. Mr. Santwire was em- ployed in an undercover capacity by the United States Government and testified as a Government witness in the Detroit Smith Act cases. Mr. Santwire testified that lie had attended Communist Party meet- ings with David Mates. Was he correct in that statement, or is it erroneous and false?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. AVell, I will have to claim the privilege after saying that this man is the confessed perjurer, and he confessed in public court that he is a liar on the payroll of the Ford Motor Co.
Mr. SciiERER. You said he is a perjurer and a liar. Did he lie about 3'ou when he said you were a member of the Communist Party ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 193
Mr. Mates. I answered the question by invoking the first and fifth amendments against testifying against myself, with the statement that that man's public record shows him to be a perjurer and employee of the Ford Motor Co.
Mr. ScHERER. I am asking you specifically since you charged this man with being a perjurer, did he lie when he identified you as a membei' of the C'ommunist Party 'i
Mr. Mates. I have invoked my right not to testify against myself.
Mr. ScHERER. I am convinced in tliat instance he told the truth.
You have a lot of nerve calling a man a perjurer and a liar and then refusing to say whetlier he told the truth or lied about you.
Mr. Mates. If you followed that trial, he confessed to the judge when lie went before the grand jury for it, and it was in the newspaper.
Mr. Tavexxer. ]Mr. Mates, you have testified that you were with the CIO at one period of your leadership in union work. Was it during that period of time tli'at the CIO became one of the founders of the World Federation of Trade Unions?
Mr. M\TES. I really don't know, and I couldn't testify, and I don't know what or when the CIO's was in that.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, were you affiliated with the CIO in 1948?
Mr. Mates. My international union then was affiliated to the parent body of the CIO.
Mr. Tamsxner. I introduced in evidence "Mates Exhibit No. 3," which dealt with tlie subject of the witlidrawal of the CIO from the World Federation of Trade Unions. That is the document, you will recall, which I read and in which you were alleged to have stated opposition to the witlidrawal of the CIO from the World Federa- tion of Trade Unions.
^Vliat was the basis of your desire to oppose the withdrawal of the CIO from the World Federation of Trade Unions?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I don't get the purpose of the question. It would ap- pear to me simply prying into the mind of an individual about what he believes, and I don't know any world philosophy or trade-union philosophy is a matter that should be discussed here, and I don't know what the implications are here, and wdiat the purpose of the question is, and I don't know what you have in mind to prove with it, and I will have to decline on the grounds of the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Scherer. I suggest the witness be directed to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I so instruct you, Mr. Mates.
Mr. Mates. Will you tell me what the purpose would be, whether I believe in unions being affiliated with the CIO or AFL?
Mr. Scherer. I don't believe we should tell him anything, if he is going to invoke the fifth amendment no matter what questions you iiskhim.
Mr. Mates. Will you repeat the question again, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavexnp:r. Eead him the question.
(Question read by rej^orter.)
^Ir. Mates. I will claim the privilege of the first and fifth amend- ments in answering this question.
Mr. Tavexner. Were you aware at that time, at the time you took that action in opposition to the withdrawal of the CIO from the World Federation of Ti'nde Unions, that a disagreement had arisen within that organization between the CIO, the British, the Dutch, and the
194 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Scandinavian trade nnions on the one hand, and other trade unions within that organization.
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I claim the privilege of the first and fifth amendment in answer to this question.
Mr. Tavexner. Do you not recall, Mr. Mates, that differences did arise between those groups and that those differences led to a split in the organization, resulting in the CIO's withdrawal from the World Federation of Trade ITnions?
]Mr. Mates. I frankly don't recall the differences, if there were any. and I knoAv there Avas a split eventually.
Mr. Tavexner. You took a Yerj positive stand as one of the lalxvi' leaders in the country in opposition to the CIO withdrawing from tlie World Federation of Trade Unions, and yet you now profess no knowledge of the issues that were involved. Can you explain thar I
]Mr. Mates. My answer to you, ]\Ir. Tavenner, is that is not exactly a couple of days ago. I don't remember the specific issues that were at hand and that is why I am in no competent situation to discuss it.
INIr. Tavexner. Let me see if I can refresh your recollection on that point. Was not the basic reason for the split the opposition of the Soviet Union to the endorsement of the Marshall Plan b}^ the CK '> '.
Mr. Mates. Could I see the document ?
(A document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Mates. I don't recall, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it actually the opposition of the leader-hip of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers to this action; of the CIO and 3'our refusal to abide by the decisions of that organiza- tion which resulted in vi'Avt in the exjjulsion of your union from the CIO?
Mr. Mates. I don't think that was a factor, and as a matter of fa<t . the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America wa- never expelled l)\- the CIO. History will show that 3 months before the CIO convention we set certain conditions for the CIO to respeci: out autonomy as an international union, and unless we had assurance that it would respect our autonomy and cease raiding, we would not pay per capita, and we got no assurances and we didn't pay the per capita, arid when you don't pay per capita you are not a member.
So actually it is a question whether we are expelled oi- withdrawn. and I would say we withdrew from the CIO in September of 104<.).
Mr. Taat.xxer. But one of the basic differences between your union and the CIO was that you would not follow the CIO's action witli reference to the Marshall plan ; wasn't it ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I don't know whether that was the main i-eason, aiul I think autonomy was the main reason. That might be a secondary reason, and our union did oppose the Marshall plan and it is a matter of record, at conventions and democratically arrived at decisions.
Mr. Tavkxxer. It was not until after the Soviet Union opposed the Marshall plan that you and other leaders within the UE fought the Marshall plan within the CIO?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I don't recall the specific date, but I can tell you this, Mr. Tavenner, that you would have to attend a convention of our union to see that the delegates from the shops, and not the representa-
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 195
tives nor the paid oflicers determine the basic policies and resolntions of onr conventions. By majority vote they determined it. I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg, and I don't know the dates, and I don't remember the time, bnt that is what liappened at our conventions, the delegates from the plants and from the shops, they determined the policy, and if they didn't like the Marshall plan, it might have been a good thing because the rest of the Nation realizes now the Marshall plan didn't bring our Nation anything good, or anybody else.
As the saying is, they made the poor poorer and the rich richer, but that is just a matter of opinion.
Mr. Tavenner. You will recognize that it was the Communist Party decision at that time to oppose the Marshall plan ; do you not ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. ]Mates. T am not going to talk with any authority. I just claim the privilege of the first and fifth not to discuss what somebody be- lieves or don't believe.
Mr. Tavexxer. Let me put the question this way: Did you as a labor leader confer with any member of the Communist Party with regard to tlie position that you should take within the United Elec- trical Radio and ]Machine Workers of America with reference to the withdrawal of the CIO from the World Federation of Trade Unions ?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. I will assert the privilege of the first and fifth not to answer the question.
Mr. Tavexner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on January 26, 1949?
^Ir. Mates. I will again assert the privilege of the first and fifth not to discuss my political beliefs and associations nor to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Tav-exxer. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Mates. The same answer for the same reason.
Mr. Tavexxer. Have j'ou ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. ]\Iates. I will assert the same privilege.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr, Mates, will you tell us, please, when the execu- tive board of district 9 met in 1954 ?
Mr. Mates. I can tell you that pretty easily. In 1954, we met in October, I would say October 21 or so, just prior to the fall district convention.
Mr. Tavexxer. When was the fall district convention?
Mr. Mates. October 22-25, I believe.
Mr, Tavexxer. Did they meet again in December?
Mr. Mates. No ; they did not meet. They met in January of 1955^ to the best of my recollection.
Mr. TA^TXXER. Was there a meeting of the council in December of 1954?
Mr. Mates. I don't believe so; the council met in January to the best of my belief and information, and I am almost sure I am right on that.
Mr. Tavexxer. Was there a meeting of representatives of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers in Fort Wavne on December 17-19, 1954?
Ml". Mates. Not that I recall any meetings, sir.
196 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Ta\t3nner. Did you attend any meeting of representatives of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers on December 17, or 19, 1954?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Mr. Mates. What were those two dates again?
Mr. Tavenner. December 17-19.
Mr. Mates. I have no recollection of attending any meeting on that date.
ISIr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Lawrence Cover?
Mr. Mates. Surely.
]Mr. Tavenner. What position does he hold?
Mr. Mates. He is a member of the district executive board.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall having been at a meeting attended by Mr. Cover in December 1954? ' Mr. Mates. No ; I don't recall any meeting with Mr. Cover.
Mr. Tavenner. In the course of Mr. Cover's testimony before the committee, in referring to the last time that he saw you, he stated :
Mr. Cover. Early last december, I think was when I saw Dave Mates last.
Question. Where did you see him?
Mr. CovEE. Fort Wayne, at an executive meeting and staff meeting.
Does that refresh your recollection about the staff meeting?
Mr. Mates. Yes, sir; I have a distinct recollection it was a district executive board by my notes, and it is an old date back and it goes back a fcAv months. I show that on January 8, Saturday, there was a district executive board meeting and a staff meeting at Fort Wayne, Ind. That meeting I am sure I attended.
Mr. Ta\^nner. I asked Mr. Cover this question :
Try to refresh your recollection as nearly as you can, as to the approximate date in December that the meeting was held.
Mr. Cover. Really, I just got out of a sick bed and I don't know. I think around the 17th or 19th.
Does that refresh your recollection ?
Mr. Mates. I think his recollection is wrong, and my thoughts indi- cate that we had a district board and a staff meeting January 8 in Fort Wayne. My thoughts indicate no meeting in December at all, includ- ing the dates you cited.
Mr. Tavenner, I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Frazier. I have no questions.
Mr. ScHERER. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Mates, this morning you referred to this committee, and I think a CIO statement back in 1950, something about witch- hunting by the committee. I told you then that at the Seattle hear- ings I had read a statement by Walter Keuther, and during the noon hour I obtained a copy of the Seattle hearings at which I was a member of this committee, and I found that on June 14 and 15, 1954, I read this statement by Walter Reuther, president of the national UAW, CIO. It had just been released at Flint, Mich., a short time before. Here is what IMr. Reuther said : It is short and I will read it.
We have no quarrel with the professed purposes of the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Each witness appearing before these committees must, of course, make his own individual decision as to the course of action which he will follow in his testimony. This is a matter of individual conscience and judgment. However, we in UAW, CIO, .sincerely urge every witness called before
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 197
the House Un-American Activities Committee, if it is at all possible to do so, to avoid using the fifth amendment. Protecting the good name and reputation of innocent people and their families does not absolve the former Communist from his patriotic duty as a citizen to testify fully of his firsthand knowledge of the names and activities of any Communist Party functionary, of any illegal activities or any evidence of conspiracy, to overthrow the Government by force or violence, or evidence of a nature which would serve to strengthen the security of our Nation, while at the same time refusing to testify in any manner in which he has no direct firsthand knowledge, or any matter which happened so far in the past that his memory cannot be relied upon with any degree of accuracy.
We, the UAW, CIO, believe that this is the hour when America needs to take inventory and we dedicate ourselves to the basic principles and values which have been the source of our greatness.
UAW, CIO, through years of practical experience in the forefront of fighting against communism, fully recognizes and understands the danger of the Com- munist world conspiracy. We support and shall continue to support every effort of our Government to meet this threat.
We shall, however, resist every effort on the part of any possible fear, hatred or hysteria to try to destroy the very freedom we are dedicated to preserve. As a free people, you must demonstrate the courage and good sense to resist the use of communism and totalitarian methods under the guise of fighting communism.
and so forth.
This is the end of the quote. That isn't all of Mr. Reuther's state- ment.
Mr. Mates. I have the official statement, not a 1-man statement, but of 4 top officers of this ^reat union that you just quoted, and adopted in i\Iay of 1954, specifically in connection with the Michigan hearings of the House Un-American Activities Committee, and I can give you a very simple quote wliere he condemns tlie connnittee from the first chairman down and says that if members do use the fifth there should be no prejudice against them in the union. I have the black and white, and I am ready to give you a copy of it for your record.
Mr. ScuERER. ]Mr. Doyle may be interested, but I am not interested in what Reuther said or the CIO said.
Mr. Mates. He said the only purpose of the hearing was for Clardy to get headlines, and he got them and he was defeated.
j\Ir. Doyle. I know you have a speech you are anxious to make to try to get headlines, but we do not have time to hear it now, I did feel in view of my statement this morning, w'itli reference to your statement about Mr. Reuther, with reference to this committee gen- erally, and tlie use of the fifth amendment generally, that this state- ment should be read by me for your information and guidance.
Now, I want to ask Mr. Mates just a couple of questions.
Mr. Mates, I know that for myself, personally, I want to just make this brief observation to you. As a result of my several years of sitting on this committee I have come to feel that any man that claims to be a patriotic American citizen, whether he is a labor leader or not, who joins the Communist Party in the United States or who stays in the Communist Party in the United States approximately after May of 1945, when Earl Browder was deposed as leader of the American Communist Party, does so with his eyes open. The Duclos letter which came to this country and was presented to the American Com- munist Party convention in April and May of 1945, clearly showed by its text and intent, the intention of the international Communist con- spiracy to use force and violence when necessary in their judgment to overthrow constitutional government in the United States.
So my own tliought is that if you or any other labor leader stays in the American Communist Party now or have stayed in it since a rea- sonable time after Earl Browder was deposed, you have stayed in it
198 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYXE. IXD., AREA
with your eyes open to the fact that the international Connniinist con- spiracy, inchiding the American Communist Party, is dedicated to the proposition that when they find it convenient, if ever, tliey have no hesitancy in overthrowing by force and violence onr own form of constitutional government, the same as the statement read by Mr. Tavenner from that Trade Union Unity League, in which they state to that elf ect.
So I Avant to say to you, we certainly commend any man who con- scientiously pleads the fifth amendment when he can do it in truth and honesty and in good faith and conscience. That is the right of every American citizen. We uphold and defend it .
Personally, I make no conclusions when an American citizen pleads the first and fifth amendments, and I don't conclude the man is guilty of anything, if he does it in good faith and conscience, because that is our constitutional right and protection. It is not to be used lightly nor dishonestly.
Of course, I also know that it is still the Communist Party line in rlie United States to plead the fifth amendment, even though it is in violation of good faith and conscience.
Can I ask you a couple of questions about this passport data, be- cause you were born in Russia according to your statement. Yoiu* father was born in Russia. We know that, as a matter of record, Russia is still in control of the Communist Party conspiracy and according to the Bandung hearings in Indonesia in the last several days, some of the free countries of Asia are still afraid of the Com- munist conspiracy taking them over as colonies for the international Communist conspiracy.
]May I ask you this: Were you a member of the Comnnniist Party in any way in Russia before you came to this country? You Avere only a youngster, but had you in any Avay become identified through your parents, or in any way Avith the Communist Party in Russia before you came here ?
Mr. Mates. I testified that I came here about the age of 5 or so.
]\Ir. Doyle. Well, AA'ere you in the Communist Party kindergarten or children's school of any kind ? They had them over there tlien.
Mr. Mates. That Avas long before I. It Avas during the reign of the <yzars, as I recall.
Mr. Doyle. It may be. My information from reading is that they still had some underground Communist Party Avorkings. It is a fi-ank question, and Avere you in any Avay tied up through your parents Avith any Communist regime, even though as a youngster in kinder- garten 'I The Communist Party uoav in this country has Communist Party schools and kindergartens, and camps, and summer camps for youngsters 5 to 10 years old.
Mr. Mates. I don't think you get into kindergarten at the age of 5. Yow don't enter kindergarten at the age of 5.
Mr. Doyle. The Connnunist Party takes them pretty young. I am not referring to a public kindergarten. I am referring to a Commu- nist Party kindergarten or school or nursery.
Mr. Mates. You are joking about the year 1912, in a country which had completely — I don't knoAv any more than you do except from reading about what the Czars' type of government AAas, and I don't tliink it Avas an epitome of democracy.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 199
;Mr. Doyle. It is a question based on history, and I am asking you your information about it, if you liave any, from Avhat your parents told you, or from other sources.
( Witness consulted counsel.)
^Ir. Mates. Frankly, I can't even remember my age of 5, and I don't remember coming here, let alone what they tried to tell me or teach me.
Mr. Doyle. I am not suspecting that you do remember very much at the age of 5, but you remember in later years whether or not your parents had ever put you in any such kindergarten or school or class.
Mr. Mates. Mr. Doyle, do you think it is really too fair to ask a person to testify against his own parents, no matter what they did, right or wrong?
Mr. DoYLE. I didn't ask you that.
Mr. Mates. That is what you are implying.
Mr. Doyle. I am not assuming it was necessary-
Mr. Mates. Even in verbal claims, you don't have to testify against your father and mother and stuff like that.
Mr. Doyle. I am not asking you to testify against your parent; I am asking you as a matter of history wdiether or not you were a mem- ber of any such class or group as a youngster. I am not asking you to testify against your parents.
Mr. Mates. Well frankly, if I have got to answer it, I don't have any memory and I don't remember, as a child of 5, going to any schools as far as that goes.
Mr. Doyle. Can you testify as to where your father was naturalized in this country?
Mr. Mates. I think that I can testify, in the District of New York, Federal District Court, in the year lOl'S or 1919, and I have gotten the papers but I don't have them with me.
yir. Doyle. You have that record, Mr. Tavenner ?
]\Ir. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. May I take this occasion to say that which I have said to many, many labor leaders, ever since I have been on the committee, that if you are still in the Communist Party, or have any connection with it, why don't you as one of the labor leaders of the country get out of it. clean up your relations with it as soon as you can, and see that the labor union of which you are one of the leaders, gets just as far as possible away from the Communist layout in this country or any other country.
It makes me shiver no end when I realize that some of you labor leaders have been so closely identified and involved w4th the Com- munist conspiracy to take over American labor that you find it necessary in your own conscience and good faith to plead the fifth amendment.
So I want to urge you, as one of the labor leaders, to get so far away from it as soon as you can that you can help your own Govern- ment ])rotect itself against the subversive activities of the American Comnninist Party. I want to urge you to do that. Lead toward strength for your adopted comitry instead of weakness.
Are there any other questions, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. I have no questions, except this observation, Mr. Doyle. I think that in view of the testimony or the lack of testimony that has been adduced in this case, although this witness derived his citizenship throuerli his father, it still should be referred to the Depart-
I
200 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
ment of Justice to determine whether or not it is possible to commence' denaturalization proceedings when a person has derivative citizen- ship.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, I return these exhibits to you.
Thank you, counsel, and thank you Mr. Mates. Mr. Mates is excused. .
Mr. Tavexner. Dr. Shafarman, will you come forward, please?
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Dr. Shafarman. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Doctor, have a chair.
Dr. Shafarman. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE MAURICE SHAFARMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, DAVID REIN
Mr. Tavenner. IVliat is your name, please, sir ?
Dr. Shafarman. Eugene Maurice Shafarman.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it noted that you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Kein. David Eein, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. Tavenner. "WHiere were you born, Dr. Shafarman ?
Dr. Shafarman. In the city of New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien?
Dr. Shafarman. 1st of December, 1904.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ?
Dr. Shafarman. I am a doctor of medicine.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- cational training for your profession has been ?
Dr. Shafarman. After completing high school in the Bronx, New York City, I was out of school for 2 years, and then was admitted to the University of Wisconsin in the College of Letters and Science, in the year of 1926, where I had 3 years of premedical training and 2 years of medicine.
In 1931 1 transferred to the University of Michigan and completed 2 years of further training in medicine. I then served an internship at the Receiving Hospital in the city of Detroit, and was licensed to practice medicine in tlie State of Michigan.
Mr. Tavenner. What year?
Dr. Shafarman. In 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an office of your own in 1934 in Detroit?
Dr. Shafarman. I opened my office in Detroit in 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. What address?
Dr. Shafarman. 5320 John R Street, Detroit.
Mr. Ta\T3Nner. Dr. Shafarman, have you at any time traveled out- side of the continental limits of the United States ?
Dr. Shafarman. I traveled outside the continental limits of the United States many times.
]Mr. Tavenner. When was the first time ?
Dr. Shafarman. In 1924 I left the continental limits of the United States of America and traveled to Auckland and Wellington, and then across Tasman Sea to Sydney. I had already been in Vancouver, British Columbia.
In 1925 I went to Honolulu, Yokohama, Kobe, Nagasaki, Hongkong, Shanghai, and Manila several times. I went througli the Panama
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 201
Canal also in the same year. In 1931 I went to Sonthampton, Sher- borne, London, and Paris. In 1934 I went to England, France, the Netherlands, Gerniany. Poland, Lithnania, Latvia, and the Soviet Union. In 1941 I went to Mexico and Cuba, I think that about covers it.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were yon in the Soviet Union in 1934 when you visited that country?
Dr. Shafarman. To the best of my recollection, approximately 6 weeks.
Mr. Ta\-exxer. What was the purpose of your trip?
Dr. Shafarmax. The purpose of the trip was to study surgery, ^liich I did. at the Anglo-American Institute of the First Moscow University, and in the Cancer Eesearch Institute in Moscow.
Mr. Tavenner. "Was there any particular type of surgery that you took your training in ?
Dr. Shafarman. General surgery.
Mr. Tavexner. It is noted on your application for a passport that on your trip in 1934, you gave as the countries to which you desired to travel, "England, France, Denmark, Poland, and Germany."
Was there anj- reason for your leaving the Soviet Union out of your application ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I believe that the application included the infor- mation that I was going to the Soviet Union, because I obtained a visa to go there before I left the United States.
Mr. Tavexxer. I hand you the application and ask you to examine it and state whether you see any reference to an intent to travel in the Soviet Union ?
Dr. Shafarmax"^. There obviously is no reference to that on this passport, but I do not at this time know why. There is something crossed out here, which I can't identify.
Mr. Taa'exner. That is your passport application, is it not, or a copy of it ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I can recognize some of the handwriting as my own and some of the handwriting I cannot recognize.
Mr. Ta%-exxer. Is it your signature at the bottom of it, on page 2, or is it at the top ?
Dr. Shafarmax. This is my signature. The passport that I had was validated for Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the Soviet Union, and it was returned to the State Department in 1941, I believe.
Mr. TA^•EXXER. "VAHiat were the circumstances under which it was returned ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I used to use it as an identification paper when I would travel, and in that year, this is something that I have for- gotten, I went down into old Mexico, and when I returned across the border and presented the passport at the Mexican border, I was given a receipt for it.
Mr. Taaexxer. In other words, it was taken up ?
Dr. Shafarman. It was just picked up, and it had expired anyway, and I was just using it as an identification paper. I had used it as such when I went up to Canada, and it was not picked up, and when I returned from Mexico it was.
Mr. Tavenxer. What was the purpose of your travel to Mexico?
Dr. Shafarmax. I used to read Joseph Conrad, and I had wander- lust. I wanted to see the country.
Mr. Tavexxer. Dr. Shafarman, Mr. John D. McGillis appeared before this committee as a witness, in October of 1938. and he testified
202 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
that a young man by the name of William Wright became acquainted with Philip Eaym'ond, a Michigan State organizer for the Com- munist Party in 1936. Were you acquainted with Philip Raymond^
Dr. Shafarman. I am acquainted with Philip Eaymond.
Mr, TAVENiSrER. Did you know him in 1936 ^
Dr. Shafarmax. I Joelieve my acquaintance with him goes back that far.
Mr. Tavexxei;. Did you know him as the State organizer of the Communist Party at that time ?
Dr. SiiAFARMAN. I kuew him as a patient.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did you know him as State organizer of the Com- munist Party at that time?
(Witness consulted counsel.)
Dr. Shafarmax. I have no knowledge that he was a member of the Communist Party at that time, or at any time.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did he at any time talk to you in 1936 or 193T regarding Communist Party matters?
Dr. Shafarmax. Not to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. McGillis testified that Philip Raymond had this young man, William Wright, submit to a physical examination in your office at 5320 John R Street, Detroit, ]^reliminary to his embarking for Spain to take part in the Spanish Civil War. Do- you have anv recollection at this time of having examined Mr. William Wrights
Dr. Shafarman. I do not have any recollection of it.
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. McGillis further in the course of his testimony presented a letter written by William Wright, after arriving in Spain,. in which Mr. Wright stated, and I now quote from the letter :
There are more than 30 comrades from Detroit, anrl the majority of us are in the same company, Company 4, Abraham Lincoln Battalion, Infantry, 35th Division of Spanish Republican Army.
Were you personally acquainted with any of those who were recruited for service in Spain, from the area of Detroit?
nVitness consulted with counsel.)
Dr. Shafarmax. I persojially have no knowledge of those people' that you mentioned, and 1 have no recollection of it. I
Mr Sciierer. I didn't hear the answer. ■
Dr. Shafarman. Will you repeat the question ? *'
(Question read by reporter.)
Dr. Shafarmax. I have no recollection of being personally ac- quainted Avith anyone Avho was alleged to liave been recruited from the area of Detroit.
Mr. Sciierer. Were you acquainted with any of them, whether it was personally or not?
Dr. Shafarmax. I have no recollection of being acquainted with them, at this time, and this is 1955, and I don't even know who thev were. You mentioned how many?
Mr. Tavexxer. Thirty.
Di'. Shafarmax. I cannot recall from memory any who would tit into that category of my personal acquaintances or my professional acquaintances.
Mr. Tavexner. Did you meet any person professionally who desired an examination for military service in Spain?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 203
Dr. SiiAFAKiiAx. I did not meet anybod}' professionally who desired an examination for military service in Spain.
Mr. Tavknxer. Did you examine any persons sent to you for exam- ination preliminary to their embarkino- for Spain?
Dr. SnAFAKMAx. There was a committee to render medical aid to Spain, and attempts were made to get medical supplies and ambu- lances, and send them to Spain. I vao:uely remember that there Avere some personnel who wanted to be ambulance drivers. If that is the sense of military personnel, and not Red Cross personnel, it is possible that I examined somebody who wanted to go to Spain and drive an ambulance, or to be a medical-corps worker. There were docto) s who went to Spain, and there were nurses who went to Spain. I do not recollect the details.
Mr. Tavexxer. That is an indication that you examined doctors and luu'ses for service in Spain.
Dr. Shafarmax. I did not say that I examined doctors or nurses. I said that doctors and nurses went to Spain, and I do not
Mr. Tavexxer. I was asking about people that you had examined. Did you examine any doctors or did you examine any nurses who Avere destined to go to Spain ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I did not.
Mr. Tavexxer. Who did you examine, then, in connection with service in Spain?
Dr. Shafarmax. I do not recall individual identifications or names, l)ut I think there may have been some who wanted to be ambulance drivers or medical-service workers, and I can't recall their identity or any other details concerning them.
Mr. Tavexxer. Does that mean that you did not examine persons to determine whether or not they were fit for military service in Spain ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I did not examine anyone to determine whether or not he was fit for military service in Spain.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were any persons examined by you rejected for service, military service in Spain, as a result of your examination?
Dr. Shafarmax. I have no knowledge of having examined anyone for military service as such in Spain, and I don't know anything^ further about that.
Mr. Tavexxer. Then I understand you do say that you examined .persons for service in Spain, but not military service; is that the distinction that you are making?
Dr. Shafarmax. I just can't remember any specific person who may have come to my office for professional services, it is so Jong ago. I would make a distinction between military service and medical aid.
Mr. Tavexxer. That is the distinction that you are making, that you did examine individuals for that limited purpose, but not for military purposes?
Dr. Shafarmax. As I recollect, yes.
Mr. Tavexxer. How were you paid for your services in the exam- ination of those that you did examme for service in Spain?
Dr. Shafarmax. Professional services are usually paid for by the patient to the physician, and that is the way
Mr. Tavexxer. "What was it in this case, in these cases?
I)i-. Shafar:max. If my memoi-y serves me correctly, it would be the same thing. Tlie patient would pay for the services he got.
204 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. McGillis testified before this committee on that subject. He was asked if he knew who paid Dr. Shaf arman for med- ical examinations, and JSIr. McGillis replied, "We do know that the boys dicl not pay the doctor, nor did they know who paid the doctor, nor did they know whether or not the doctor was paid."
That was the result of an investigation which he had conducted. Do you still say that the persons who were examined paid you for their services ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I have examined probably as many as 10,000 peo- ple in the last 20 years, and I cannot recall the details of each exam- ination over a period of 20 years.
Mr. Tavenner. But if you were examining recruits for Spain, you would have no difficulty in remembering how you were compensated, if at all, for that service. Dr. Shaf arman.
Dr. Shafarman. I was not examining recruits for Spain for mili- tary service.
Mr, Ta\t:nner. Eegardless of what type of service they were to render, you would know today just as well as you laiew then the plan of compensation, if any, that you received.
Dr. Shafarman. Almost invariably, the patient pays for the pro- fessional services received, and that would be the plan.
Mr. Tavenner. You say that was the plan in these cases ?
Dr. Siiafarjian. That is to the best of my recollection ; any patient who comes to my office for professional service is charged for the pro- fessional services and ]3ays for it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you are making that in a very general form of statement. My question to you is whether or not these persons who were examined under discussion here paid you for your services.
Dr. Shafarman. To the best of my recollection at this time, they did.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Mr. INIcGillis produced before the committee a Communist Party membership card, made out to a young man by the name of William Young, whose party name he testified was James Kenneth Yochum, and advised that committee that Young was also examined for military service in Spain by you. Does that refresh your recollection as to your having examined AVilliam Young?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not recall anybody by the name of William Young in that period of time. It is about 19 years ago, or 18 years ago. Young was a very ordinary name, and William is an ordinary name, and I don't recall it.
Mr. Scherer. Doctor, did you make office records of examinations such as this ?
Dr. Shafarman. We try to keep records of every patient who comes to the office.
Mr. Scherer. Do you have your records back that far ?
Dr. Shafarman. Gee, I don't know. That is a long time ago, and we usually keep them for about 7 or 8 years, and we do the same things with examination X-ray films, and after a while you have to put them out in the garage for storage.
Mr. Scherer. You may still have your records. From what year was this, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. This was 1936.
Mr. Scherer. Possibly you have those records yet ; is that not pos- sible. Doctor ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 205
Dr. Shafarman. "Well, in 1936 I had not yet set up the kind of record system that I have now, which is a Mayo Clinic system, and I used to keep records in those days in a notebook. I can't recall where they would be right now.
Mr, ScHERER. Is it not a fact that the Communist Party paid you for these examinations ?
Dr. Shafarman. Mr. Congressman, it is not a fact that the Com- munist Party paid me for any examination at any time.
Mr. ScHERER. Did some individual representing the Communist Party then make those payments, rather than the individuals you examined for service in Spain ?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't know anybody whom I can identify as a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. SciiERER. You have no recollection then of anyone other than the individuals themselves making payment for these examinations to these individuals who went to Spain. Is that your testimony ?
Dr. Shafarman. I am trusting my memory to carry me back ap- proximately two decades, and I'm giving you my testimony as best I can in terms of what I can remember.
Mr. Scherer. I understand. That is the reason I started my ques- tion by saying, "As I understand your testimony." You have no recol- lection then of anyone other than the patients themselves making payments for these examinations.
Dr. Shafarman. That is the usual procedure in the office.
Mr. Scherer. I am not asking you whether that is the usual pro- cedure. I am asking you whether or not you have recollection.
Dr. Shafarman. I cannot recall specifically what might have hap- pened in any individual situation. ]\Iost of us who practice medicine do a great deal of professional work without any thought of compen- sation.
Mr. Scherer. I understand that, and I understand how difficult it would be to remember anything that happened in the usual course of the practice of medicine 20 years ago.
As Mr. Tavenner pointed out, I do not see how anyone could forget the circumstances surrounding the examination of a group of indi- viduals who were going to serve in some way in the Spanish Civil War. All I was asking was if your testimony is, or if I understand you cor- rectly, that you have no recollection of anybody paying you for the examination you made to these individuals who went to Spain.
Dr. Shafarman. I do not recall the details.
Mr. Scherer. You would not say that somebody did not make a payment for these examinations, would you, other than the individuals themsel ves (
Dr. Shafarman. To the best of my recollection, any payment that was made would have been made by the individual patient who came into the office in the usual manner.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask a couple of questions, Doctor ?
Twenty years ago you were a much younger doctor, and apparently you were keeping, as you said, your accounts in looseleaf books or notebooks rather than on cards. I have a great many friends that are members of the medical profession. In my law practice I became familiar with their customs and practices. As I recall, it is not un- usual that a group of persons will be examined by some one doctor by
61497—55 13
206 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
arningenieiit with someone else in the community, either some com- mittee or some organization. I am wondering if it is not a fact that in your early medical practice you did examine some people, say, a group of people that were going to a common objective, and that their medical examination fee was arranged for by some committee in the connnunity, not necessarily the Communist Party, but someone, some group of people, or some individuals in the community.
As I understand your testimony, you do remember making exam- inations of people that were going to be, as you said, ambulance drivers, so apparently you knew that they were going to enter the war in Spain, but, as you say, as ambulance drivers. Maybe they so represented to you. Maybe they did go as ambulance drivers. Maybe they went for some other purpose.
Dr. Shafarman. I have no knowledge. I have no knowledge that any one of them ever got there. Lots of people come to the office for examinations. We give them advice. If they don't take the advice, carry out their plans, I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. You say you have no knowledge of anyone getting there ?
Dr. SiiAFARMAN. I have no knowledge of any one of these people.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, you did not follow them to know whether or not they did arrive there, so it is quite understandable that you would not have any personal knowledge of them actually landing in Spain, but I remember from your testimony that you said you did examine some of them, who apparently told you they were going there as ambu- lance drivers, but not for military service, in your judgment. I am not mistaken in that, am I? They did represent that to you?
.Dr. SiL\FARMAN. As I cau recall, what I can recall, that is essen- tially so.
Mr. Doyle. That is right, and we appreciate your being helpful to us, so that now, as I understand your testimony, some of these people were examined by you. Someone represented to you, either they or someone else, that they were going as ambulance drivers. That is correct, is it not ?
Dr. Shafarman. As I remember.
Mr. Doyle. How many of those people did go as ambulance drivets as far as your examination is concerned ?
Dr. Shafarman. I have no knowdedge of that. I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. Here was the Spanish Civil War. It did not last very long, comparably, and I suppose that these ]:)eople came to your office within several months, one or the other, so it made an impression on you that they were going as ambulance drivers to Spain. Is it not a fact that someone other tlian those people paid for their examinations, either some local committee interested in the civil war in Spain or some labor union or some civic committee?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not remember those details.
Mr. Doyle. I am not surprised that you could not recall the details.
Dr. Shafarman. The collection of fees in the practice of medicine is not the most important thing in the practice of medicine.
Mr. DoyIvE. Of course, it was 20 years ago, and doctors, like lawyers, are kind of glad in the early days of their practice to get fair fees for their tests. I will ask you one more question : Wliile you said that the payment by the individauls getting the examination was the usual
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 207
custom in your office, you did make examinations foi" some individuals who were paid for by life-insurance companies, did you not ?
Dr. SiiAFARMAN. That liappens from time to time, suie.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, of course. That is part of the ordinai-y i)ractice all over the country. So it would not have been anytliing out of your line of practice if you had made these examinations of these several men or women going to Spain as ambulance drivers and some other organization made arrangements to pay for it ?
Dr. SHAFAR]MAivr. I just don't recall the details of that transaction.
Mr. Doyle. I did want to refresh your memory that in those early days you were paid for examinations by peo])le other than by the patients themselves.
Dr. Shafarman. Yes; that happens from time to time.
Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. ScHERER. Can you explain how these people came to see you for these examinations?
Dr. Shafarman. Well, if you hang out a shingle indicating that you are available for the practice of medicine, all kinds of people walk in. If you have friends they may refer their friends. There are various sources of patients.
Mr. SciiERER. I understand that, but suppose a group of 25 were going to serve in the Spanish Civil War. and there were about 1,500 you are from Detroit ; are you not I
Dr. Shafarman. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. About how many doctors in Detroit, 2,000?
Dr. Shafarman. There are 3,000 doctors in Detroit.
Mr. Scherer. Supppose there are 25 persons going to Spain and all 25 of them come to you to be examined. How could you explain that?
Dr. Shafarmax. I don't know that all 25, or liow many it was, came to me, or how many came to me. T don't remember the details.
Mr. Scherer. We have some evidence that practically all of them came to you. I would like to know how you explain that. AVlio made the arrangements. There are 3,000 doctors in the city of Detroit. With 25 Communists going to Spain, how is it that practically all of them came to you for an examination ? That is what I would like to know.
Dr. Shafar:man. I have no explanation for that.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one further question, Mr. Scherer ?
Were you on any local committee for the aid of the Spanish revolution ?
Dr. Shafarman. There was a North American Committee To Send Medical Aid to Spain.
Mr. Doyle. Were you a member of that ?
Dr. Shafarman. I helped that committee.
Mr. Doyle. Were you chairman of that committee, or secretary?
Dr. Shafarman. I was not chairman. I was not secretary.
Mr. Doyle. But you were active on it as a member of the board, the advisory board ?
Dr. Shafarman. No. I merely cooperated with the committee.
Mr. Doyle. Were you a member of the medical committee in con- nection with it ?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't really remember the details of the com- mittee, but it included professors from the University of Michigan.
208 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Doyle. At any rate, you were identified in the community as a member of that committee of medical men interested in the Spanish revohition ?
Dr. SHAFAiniAN. I was interested in what was happening in Spain, and I'm sure my interests were reasonably well known in the coni- munitv.
Mr.'TAVENiiTER. Were you acquainted with Dr. Frederick C. Len- drum, L-e-n-d-r-u-m ?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes; I was acquainted with him.
ISIr. TA\T:N]srER. Was he associated with you in your office in the practice of medicine?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes ; he was associated with me in my office.
Mr. Tavenxer. Mr. McGillis testified that Paul Padfi:ett— and Mr. Padgett also appeared as a witness and testified — was sent by Philip Raymond — he is another State organizer of the Communist Party in Michigan — to your office for a medical examination preparatory to going to Spain. It was further testified that this young man reported to your office, to you, and that he was told to come back that evening, and when he came back. Dr. Lendrum examined him. Do you recall any of the circumstances surrounding that ?
Di-. Shafarman. I do not recall that at all. You might ask Dr. Lendrum if he recalls.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. McGillis further testified that when Mr. Pad- gett returned to Philip Raymond after the medical examination, he was advised by Mr. Raymond that they were having considerable dif- ficulty in getting passports and that it would be necessary for him to use another name in order to secure a passport. Do you have any knowledge of the method used in getting passports for these men that were going to Spain to fight?
Dr. Shafarman. I have no knowledge of any such problem, never heard of it until just now.
Mr. Taatenner. Were you acquainted with a young man by the name of Emmett O. Collier— C-o-l-l-i-e-r?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not recall the name.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Collier testified before this committee that Philip Raymond gave him a note addressed to Dr. E. M. Shafarman on John R. Street and advised him to go over there, and if there was anything wrong with him, Dr. Shafarman would find it out. Collier testified that he went to see you as directed and during the course of the examination, he asked you why you gave such a stiff examination. He commented it was the strictest medical examination he had ever had, to Avhicli you replied r "It costs us an awful lot of money to send you Avhere you are going, and we want you to be in perfect physical condition to go there." Do you recall that?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not recall that.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you deny you made such a statement. Doctor?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not recall having made such a statement.
Mr. ScHERER. You do not deny you made such a statement, though; do you?
Dr. Shafarman. I can jieither affirm nor deny it. I don't recall it.
Mr. ScHERER. If you did not make such a statement, you ought to be able to deny it, if you were not identified in any way with the group that was sending these boys over, should you not? If you had no
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 209
<jonnection with the shipment of these boys to Spain, Doctor, then you would be in perfect position here today to deny making such a state- ment, because you could not have made it. You could only have made such a statement if you had been identified with that group. That leads me to believe that perhaps you were, when you say that you have no recollection of making such a statement. That is all.
Dr. Shafarman. I don't recall having made such a statement.
Mr. ScHERER. There would be ]io occasion for you to have made such a statement to that man if you had no knowledge or no connec- tion with the group that were sending these boys over there; would there?
Dr. Shafarman. As I indicated previously, I cooperated with the committee to send medical aid, ambulances, equipment, to Spain. I cannot recall having made that statement.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you know who was supplying the money to the committee with whom you cooperated or of which you were a part?
Dr. Shafarman. There were public meetings attended by many people, and contributions were taken up by the committee. They raised funds by voluntary contributions.
Mr. SciiERER. But you received none of 3'our payment for your services from that committee or from those funds, as I understand your testimony ^
Dr. SiiAFARiiAN. I usuall}' am paid for my professional services in a patient-physician relationship.
Mr. ScHKUKR. I know thai is your usual practice, but my question was: As I understand your testimony, you received no compensation or no funds from this conmiittee which you have just told us about?
Dr. Shafarman. I do not remember having received any funds from them.
Mr. Scher?:r. You would not deny that you received your compen- sation fi'om that group, would you. Doctor ^
Dr. Shafarman. I don't believe I ever received any compensation from them. I cannot recall having received any compensation from them.
Mr. Doyle. How large a committee was this, Doctor?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember. It was just a list of names on a letterhead that I can recall.
Mr. DoYEE. I mean about how many men in medicine were on it?
Dr. Shafariman. There might have been as many as 25 doctors.
Mr. DoYLE. Were there some members on the committee that were not in medicine?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't think so, because this was the North Amer- ican Medical Connnittee. It was a medical committee. It included some of the topflight personnel of tlie University of Michigan Medical School.
Mr. Tavenner. Doctor, Mr. Collier stated on oath to this committee that you said to him : "It costs us an awful lot of money to send you where you are going.'' Will you tell the committee how much it did cost to send a recruit to S]:)ain (
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember having made that statement or any statement remotely resembling it. I haven't the foggiest idea what it would cost to send anybody to Spain. I never had any idea of what it would cost to send anybody to Spain, or Switzerland, or anywhere else. I just don't know.
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210 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavennek. Did you have any financial connection whatever with the financing of the recruitment of men for service in Spain, whether it be military service or driving ambulances ?
Dr. Shafaemax. Would you repeat that question. Let me get it straight.
Mr. Taveistner. Read the question.
(The reporter read the question.)
Dr. SiiAFAKMAN. 1 believe I was asked personally to make financial contributions to this group, and I believe, as I recall at this time to the best of my recollection, that I made financial contributions. I don't remember how much.
Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you make the contributions ?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember the persons concerned.
Mr. Tavenner. Who solicited them?
Dr. Shafarman". I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Philip Raymond ?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember.
Mr. Ta\'enner. You don't remember whether he did or not ?
Dr. Shafarmax. To the best of my recollection at this time he did not, but I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Philip Raymond's wife, Vera Katz Raymond, solicit contributions for this purpose from you?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember who the persons were who solic- ited contributions from me. Mr. Tavenner, you will appreciate that this is a matter of some 18, 19 years, and I wouldn't begin to trust my memory on these things.
Mr. Tavenner. But there were circumstances which followed which should impress all of these matters on your memory as well as if they happened yesterday, Doctor ; isn't that true ?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't know.
Mr. Taa^nner. Mr. Collier further testified that the part of the examination which you gave him was a tuberculin test for which he signed a blue card which had on it the heading "City of Detroit, Pub- lic Health Department."
Did you use the blue card signed by Mr. Collier as a basis for com- pensation by the city for the test that you gave him ?
Dr. Shafarman. In 1936 the city of Detroit employed a group of public health physicians
Mr. Tavenner. Of whom you were one?
Dr. Shafarman. No; please take it easy — employed a group of public health physicians to visit individual doctors in their offices and enlist their aid in a campaign to wipe out tuberculosis, and one of these doctors came to my office and explained the purposes of this casefinding campaign. It was like a venereal disease casefinding cam- paign in which each doctor was asked if he would do certain routine procedures for each patient who came to the office and report the results of the procedures to the board of health.
There are certain things that we are required by law to do. There are certain things that we are asked to do. If a pregnant woman comes into the office, we are required by law to do a blood test. If two people come in to get marriage license certificates, we are required by law to do blood tests. In this situation we were requested to do a tuberculin skin test on every patient who would consent to have
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 211
the procedure carried out, and it was clearly indicated to the patient, as was also the case of the blood test, that there would be no charge to the patient for the serxace; and for approximately a year and a half or 2 years every patient who came to my office and would consent to such a procedure was subject to this skin test and asked to return so that the result of the test could be evaluated, and a report was then sent to the Board of Health.
Now, for those two services, for the performance of the skin test and for the readincr of it, and for the filing of the reports, the board of health paid a nominal fee of $1 for each service; total, $2, The patients were not charged for this. The board of health paid for it, and it was done for every patient who would consent to have it done. I don't recall the details concerning Mr. Collier or any other particu- lar patient who might have come in at that time, but I'm sure that if he ever came to the office in that period he would have been asked to return. He would have been asked to have this particular test performed, regardless of whatever he may have come in for, and to return within 48 hours if he could conveniently do so, to permit the test to be read. This was a perfectly simple straightforward profes- sional service that we were asked to carry out on behalf of the board oi' health. I participated in that campaign.
Does that answer your question^
Mr. S("iiEin:R. Plow many years ago was that?
Dr. Shafarman. This went on for about 3 years. From 1936 to 1939 we were asked to do these skin tests for ( verybody who came in and we did literally hundreds of them.
Mr. ScHERER. You remember the details of that extremely well, Doctor.
Dr. Shafarmax. I remember the campaign extremely well because it went on for about 3 years, and I was very active in it because the area where my office is located is a center of a liigh incidence of tuber- culosis, and the job the board of health wanted the doctors to do was to find the people who had TB and arrange for their care so as to wipe it out. When you do something over and over again for about 3 years, and over a thousand days, you probably would reniembi^r those details.
Mr. ScuERER. But sending Americans to participate in this Spanish war was also an unusual thing that would impress the details of any events connected therewith upon one's mind. In fact, that would be a little more sensational than the TB campaign that you partici])ated in.
Neverthless, go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that the city of Detroit made an in- vestigation relating to the question of your having submitted this type of bill for payment by the city of Detroit in cases where you had examined persons for overseas service in Spain?
Dr. Shafarman. The city of Detroit investigated the participation of several physicians in the cam])aign. To the best of my knowledge and belief it was not in reference to any particular group of patients. It was the Avhole participation program.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the result of the investigation as far as you were concerned ?
Dr. Shafarman. Well, the reports I sent in were accepted. The patients were treated. I was paid for my services, as I remembei", and I still practice medicine in the city of Detroit.
212 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Ta\^enner. Yes; but were you continued in participating in that plan after the investigation?
Dr. SiiAFARMAx. I think that by that time — I think that was, oh, 15 years ago or more — the whole plan had folded up or was folding up.
Mr. Ta\'enner. I am not speaking of the time Avhen the whole plan folded up, but prior to its folding up, were you not deprived of the benefit of that course of practice ?
Dr. SiiAFARMAN. I just dou't remember the details of that. I can't remember ; it may be.
Mr. SciiERER. What does the record show, Mr. Tavenner ^
Mr. Tavenner. There is a statement by the witness Sergeant Mikuliak to the effect that he was denied the privilege of continuing.
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember. That's probably what hap- pened, but I don't remember the details.
Mr. ScHERER. Another thing I would not forget — if the court would stop me from practicing in certain fields for a little while.
Mr. Tavenner. Doctor, you spoke of the ^Medical Bureau To Aid Spanish Democracy as being an organization
Dr. Shafarman. It was a medical committee to send medical aid to Spain. It was a committee. As I remember, it consisted almost entirely of physicians. I cooperated with that committee, as I have stated. Do you have a question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I do. Sergeant Maciosek, of the city of Detroit, testified about this conunittee and produced a letter dated November 1937 on the letterhead of the Medical Bureau To Aid Spanish Democ- racy. It was a request from that organization addressed to the city of Detroit to permit a procession of cars in the street as an escort.
Dr. Shafarman. Could you give me that date again ?
Mr. Tavenner. The date of the letter is November 1, 1937, request- ing a permit for a procession of care as an escort for the Hollywood caravan to Spain. This was a hospital ambulance donated by the Motion Picture Artists Committee To Aid Spanish Democracy.
There appeared on that letterhead the names of the Michigan committee, which I believe to be the same committee to which you refer. Your name appears on that letterhead as the treasurer of the organization.
Were you the treasurer of the organization ?
Dr. Shafarman. I may have functioned as treasurer for a brief moment. I don't recall the details with any precision. They had a Holly w^ood caravan ; did you say ? m
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. *
Dr. Shafarman. Of what? Would you repeat it, please?
Mr. Tavenner. It was a request for a permit for a procession of cars to be used as an escort for the Hollywood caravan to Spain, as it was called, which was a hospital ambulance donated by the Motion Picture Artists Committee To Aid Spanish Democracy, which went through the whole country from Hollywood.
During the time you were treasurer of this organization, what was the source of the funds you received ?
Dr. Shafarman. As I indicated before, the committee would get its funds from donations at public meetings when collections would be taken up. This is what I remember of the incidents of that period.
Mr. Tavenner. How w^ere the funds used which were so received?
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE. IND., AREA 213
Dr. Shafarmax. To buy medical supplies as nearly as I know; •ambulances,
Mr. TA^'EXXER. I hand you the February 28, 1940, issue of the Daily Worker which has a photograph on it, and under the photograph appear the names of those who are in the photograph. Will you examine it please and see whether or not you can identify your own likeness in the photograph?
Dr. SHArAR3iAX. I'm not very photogenic ; am I ?
Mr. Tavexxer. You apparently recognize your photograph.
Dr. Shafarmax. AA^iat was the question?
Mr. Tavexxer. Have you identined your photograph?
Dr. Shafar3iax. Well, there is a smudge there that could be any- body.
Mr. Scherer. Wait a mmute. That is no answer to that question, Counsel. Is that your photograph or is it not ?
Dr. Shafarmax. Let me take another look at that, would you, please ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Tavexxer. Answer the question, please.
Dr. Shafarmax. I shouldn't admit that I ever looked like that, but it may be I.
Mr. Tavexxer. There is no doubt about it; is there?
Dr. Shafarmax. I don't know. There is no doubt that there was such a situation in which I was probably photographed.
Mr. Tavexxer. And that is your photograph appearing in the picture; is it not?
Dr. Shafarmax. It could be.
Mr. Tavexxer. Are you in doubt about it ?
Dr. Shafarmax. Gosh, I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. Is his name under the alleged photograph ?
Dr. Shafarmax. They have my name spelled out there, sure.
Mr. Scherer. Did you know the woman in that picture, Miss Page?
Dr. Shafarmax. We were all in the same situation, together. There was such a woman. Miss Page.
Mr. Scherer. Did you know her?
Dr. Shafarjneax. I knew her as a result of a brief contact for a matter of minutes.
Mr. Scherer. Did you know Philip Raymond, who also appears in that picture?
Dr. Shafarmax. Sure.
Mr. Scherer. Do you know Joseph Clark ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I think I can remember a person by the name of Joseph Clark.
Mr. Scherer. Were you one of them arrested by the FBI ?
Dr. Shafarmax. Yes; I was.
Mr. Scherer. Doctor, this is the first time I saw you, but that picture is good enough for me to say that is you in your early days. It is a pretty good likeness.
Mr. Tavexxer. It is noted that you were 1 of 16 persons — it is stated under your photograph — who were arrested on charges of recruiting for the Spanish Republican Army. And those charges were dismissed.
Dr. Shafarmax. I was arrested. I think there were 16 altogether who were arrested. I don't know the precise wording of the charge.
214 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IK THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. You did recruit for service in Spain, did you not?
Dr. Shafarman. I cooperated with the medical committee to send medical aid to Spain.
Mr. TA^^NNER. And you cooperated with Phil Raymond, also; didn't you ?
Dr. Shafarman. To send medical aid to Spain ?
Mr. Tavenner. No ; to recruit for Spain.
Dr. Shafarman. Not to the best of my recollection, not to recruit military personnel. I don't remember ever having done anything like that.
Mr. Tavenner. "WHien did you first become acquainted with Phil Raymond ?
Dr. Shafarman. Probably about 19 years ago; 1930.
Mr. Ta\'enner. And you have known him through the years since then ; have you not ?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes, I have.
Mr. Tavenner. Has Phil Raymond solicited you for funds for any purpose ?
Dr. Shafarman. Not to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliy is it each time I ask you a question you say not to your recollection ? Don't you know whether he has or has not 'i
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Shafarman. I will stand by my answer. I don't recollect.
Mr. Tavenner. Has his wife, Vera Katz Ray*nond, solicited funds from you for any purpose ?
Dr. Shafarman. Not that I remember.
Mr. Ta\t;nner. And that's as far as you will commit yourself?
Dr. Shafarman. Events of many years ago I don't remember in sufficient detail to give any better answers.
Mr. Tavenner. Let's bring the matter up to a more recent date. Did Philip Raymond solicit you for funds in 1947 ?
Dr. Shafarman. 1947 ? Not that I can remember.
Mi\ Tavenner. In 1948?
Dr. Shafarman. Not that I can remember.
Mr. Scherer. You don't deny that you gave him funds or them funds in those years ; do you. Doctor ?
Dr. Shafarman. I cannot remember having given him any funds.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Tavenner asked you a few minutes ago why you always said you could not recollect or could not remember. I can answer that question. I learned that early in the practice of law. That's the answer given by somebody who doesn't want to answer and doesn't want to be caught on a perjury charge. I learned that in the first couple of years of jiractice, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make a contribution to Philip Raymond in 1947 for the Michigan Herald?
Dr. Shafarman. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever make any contribution for the benefit of the Michigan Herald ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Shafarman. I'll refuse to answer tliat question on the basis of the privilege accorded me under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Phil Raymond to be the State or- ganizer for the Communist Party of Michigan in 1947 ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 215
Dr. Shafarman. I have no personal knowledge of his political status.
Mr. ScHERER. Irrespective of whether it is personal knowledge or other knowledge, did you have any knowledge, either from a direct or indirect source, that Phil Raymond was a Communist organizer ?
Dr. Shafarmax. I have no knowledge of that.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Phil Ra3'mond ever discuss with you the matter of giving medical examinations to persons sent to you by him ?
Dr. Shafarman. Many people refer patients to me just as a personal favor to me, I suppose. I don't recall any specific discussion of such a referral.
Mr. Tavenxer. Did you ever attend a meeting of the Communist Party at which Phil Raymond was present?
Dr. Shafarman. I'll refuse to answer that question on the privilege granted me under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavtnxer. In 1936 when these various examinations were made in your office to which reference has been made, were you a member of the Comnuinist Party ?
Dr. Shafarmak. I'll refuse to answer that question on the basis of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner, Doctor, you prepared and caused to be filed with this committee a certificate regarding the pliysical condition of David Mates in December 1954.
Dr. Shafarmax. I did.
Mr. Tavenxer. "Wlien did you hrst become acquainted with David Mates '.
Dr. Shafarmax. To tlie best of my knowledge and belief and recollection, it was probabl}^ in 1951, about 4 years ago.
Mr. Ta\'exxer. What were the circumstances under which you then met him ?
Dr. Shafarmax. Well, he came to the office as a patient.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did you learn then or at any later date that Mr. David Mates had been a member of the Communist Party?
Dr. Shafarmax. Xo ; I did not.
Mr. Tavexxer. What was the first date on which you examined him as a basis for j'our letter of December 14, 1954 ?
Dr. Shafarmax. If my memor}' serves me correctly, it was the 3d of December or the 2d or the 4th, somewhere in the first few days of December.
Mr. Tavexxer. You knew at that time that Mr. Mates had been subpenaed as a witness before this committee, did you not?
Dr. Shafarmax. I did not know it at that time.
Mr. TA^^EXXER. You, of course, knew it on December 14 when you addressed this letter to the chairman of this committee ?
Dr. Shafarmax. That was when I found out that Mr. Mates had been asked to appear before this committee, but I had already advised him almost 2 weeks previously to go home and to go to bed and stay there, because I thought his physical condition warranted a complete rest, a complete cliange of his usual occupational activities: and I examined him in the first few days of December and sent him home to go to bed and stay there. I thought he needed some rest and needed it badly.
Mr. Scherer. What was wrong with him ?
216 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
Dr. Shafarman. As I indicated to the committee, he was in a state of exhaustion ; nervous exhaustion, severe, acute.
Mr. ScHEKER. Is that all that was wrong with him?
Dr. Shafarman. Well, that's plenty.
]Mr. ScHERER. I understand that is plenty, but I am asking if there was anything else wrong with him ?
Dr. Shafarman. I thought that all the physical findings and all the symptoms and all the laboratory studies that were done could be exphiined by that diagnosis. That was my opinion after I had taken a history.
Mr. ScHERER. Do laboratory findings show nervous exhaustion ?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes, Congressman, laboratory findings can con- stitute su])])ort of evidence of nei'vous exhaust ion.
Mr. ScHERER. In what way ?
Dr. Shafarman. By the elimination of such things as cardiac fail- ure, kidney failure, specific digestive diseases
Mr. SciiERER. Did he have any cardiac failure?
Dr. Shafarman. By the elimination of such organic symptoms as will explain the fatigue, the lassitude, the diarrhea, the irritability, the nervousness, the palpitation. If you have a patient who presents a certain problem, and you arrive at a certain conclusion, you can sup- port that conclusion by laboratory findings which are either negative or positive.
]\rr. ScHERER. Pardon me. In Mates' case were they all negative laboratory findings?
Dr. Shafarman. Except one very important one, and that was the basal metabolic rate which was very importantly depressed, and that's characteristic of this condition.
Mr. SciiERER. You mean you gave him a metabolism test ?
Dr. Shafarman. I gave liim 3 or 4 of them.
]\Ir. Scherer. That was the oidy positive one ?
Dr. Shafarman. The eJectrocardiagram was in the normal range, chest X-ray, urine, sigmoidoscopic.
Mr. ScjiERER. And with those negatives you concluded the things (hat he told you about his condition could be attributed only to nervous exhaustion then ?
Dr. Shafarman. That was my diagnosis.
Mr. Scherer. You cannot see nervous exhaustion, can you?
Dr. Shafarman. I stated in that communication a straight profes- sional opinion of a patient whom I examined, and I'll lend you all the textbooks you want if you want to read up on that subject, with all due respect to you.
I'll stand on my record and my professional qualifications on my diagnostic ability and training to arrive at a conclusion.
Mr. Tavenner. "V^Hien did you arrive at the conclusion that he had recovered from his difficulty?
Dr. Shafarman. Oh, 3 or 4 weeks later. I don't remember the date exactly.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you tell the committee that he was not able to come to Washington until 3 or 4 weeks after you examined him?
Dr. Shafarman. At the time that I examined him I advised him to go home and go to bed and stay there and take certain medicines, and at that time on those occasions when I visited him at home, I continued
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA 217
liim on that treatment, on that regimen. It is called the Weir-Mitchell treatment. I believe he recovered in about 3 or 4 weeks.
Mr. ScHEKER. He recovered right after he was due to testify here, Doctor.
Mr. Tavenner. How long was that after the date on which he was subpenaed to appear before this committee ?
Dr. Shafarmak. "N^liat was the date he was subpenaed ?
Mr. Tavenner. You saw him on December 3, 1954, 1 believe.
Dr. Shafarman. I saw him about five times after that.
Mr. Tavenner. How long was it after December 3 before he was well enough to have appeared before this committee ?
Dr. Shafarjsian. I arrived at the conclusion that he had had the maximum benefit of medical treatment along about the 24th of Jan- uary.
Mr. ScHERER. 'N^^ien you treated Mr. ]Mates. you were keeping medi- cal records, were you not ?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes, sir.
Mr. SoHEREE. Do you have such records in your office ?
Dr. Shafarman. Yes, sir.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Did the fact that he was subpenaed for appear- ance before this committee for interrogation on the subject of com- munism influence you in the giving of this certificate?
Dr. Shafarman. Of coui-se not. In the first place, I did not know that lie had a subpena until I got a call from him indicating that his lawyer would communicate with me to verify the advice that I had given to go home and go to bed. That was tlie first time I knew that he was under any obligation to appear before this committee.
Mr. Tavenner.' But you knew that, of course, when you wrote this letter to the committee on the 14th day of December, because it is referred to in the letter? I say when you wrote tl-.at letter, were you influenced in any way by the fact that he was to appear here as a wit- ness in a matter involving communism ?
Dr. Shafarman. I was not influenced in any way by any consider- ation other than the requirements of the patient's physical status.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on December 14, 1954, when you executed this certificate ?
Dr. Shafarman. I must refuse to answer that question on the basis of the provisions of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Shafarman. I must refuse to answer that question on the basis of the privilege conferred upon me by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it your position that Mr. Mates was not physically able to make the trip to Washington on December 14 ?
Dr. Shafarman. That was the professional advice that I gave him. Wliat was that date ?
Mr. Tavenner. December 14.
Dr. Shafarman. That was my professional advice to Mr. Mates. I would not have wanted him to go anywhere even by ambulance.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Frazier ?
Mr. Frazier. I have no questions.
Mr. Scherer. No questions.
Mr. Doyi.e. I haven't any questions. Doctor, but I am frank to say I am quite amazed to have heard all your testimony up until within
218 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE FORT WAYNE, IND., AREA
the last few minutes when, for the first time, you pleaded your con- stitutional privilege. I am amazed and shocked because it indicates at least there is some place in your experience within the last few years when something arose in connection with the Communist Party in our own country that makes you feel it your duty to yourself to plead the amendment.
I am always shocked when men with fine educations and opportuni- ties to serve the country find themselves in a position where manifestly your only justification in pleading the amendment is it might incrimi- nate you to tell the facts and answer the questions, frankly and fully.
If you are another one of those men who has been tied up in any way with the Communist conspiracy, why in heaven don't you get out of it ? I am not even inferring that you were a member because, as I understand it, there is no inference merely because a man in good faitli ])leads the amendment. I am frank to say to you that I think our information indicates pretty well that you had pretty close con- nections with the preparation for, and shipment of these American men and women to Spain, and that the Communist Party was pretty closely identified with it, also.
Then, with you pleading the amendment, as you did, the last minute, it cannot help but leave a big question mark in my mind. I just want to repeat, if you have found yourself in that environment, why in heaven don't you get out of it ?
I realize that there is no opportunity for you and I to discuss it here, but I would be less than frank as an American Congressman if I did not thus speak to you.
Thank you. Counsel. The witness is excused, Mr. Tavenner.
The committee stands in recess.
(Wliereupon, at 4 p. m., the committee recessed, subject to call.)
INDEX
Individuaxs
Fag«
Alexander, Gabriel N 161
Allan, William 174-176
Alston, Chris 175
Anderson, Jack 60
Arnold. George 120
Aron, Henry 104, 106, 192
Bechtold, Euyene 189
Belsou, Irving Charles 111
Block, Albert M 189
Carey, James B 174, 175
Carlquist, G 178
Christofel, Carl 60
Clark, Joseph 218
Collier, Emmett O 208-210
Cover, Lawrence 56-71 (testimony), 153, 196
Dalil, Harold 190
Dennett, Eugene 182
Dickstein. Abraham 167, 176
Donner, Frank J 20, 43, 51, 56, 71, 91
Dudley. James 47
Emspak, Julius 82
Furay. Mort 175
Garfield, Arthur 25, 75, 92, 93, 155
Glaser. Marguerite 189
Gojack. John Thomas 22, 26, 36, 38-40, 42. 44, 46, 57, 60,
71-89 (testimony), 91-156 (testimony)
Hathaway, C. A 178
Haywood, Harry 178
Hupman, Melvin 29, 30
Ives, William 97
Jacobs, Julia 20-56 (testimony), 72, 93, 158
Johnson, Elmer 62, 97, 101, 102, 106, 191
Jourdain, H 141
Kelly, Charles 60
Kirkendall. Kermit M 28,32
Lacey, Virgil 175
Lamb, Leonard 171
Lawrence. H 178
Lawson, John 189
Lendrum, Frederick C 208
Lunet, Andre 142
Mann. Thoma-s 149
Marhanka, Dick 46
Markham, Charles H 50
Markland, Lem 25
Mates. David (born Metropolitan, David) 19, 50, 60, 61, 158-200
(testimony), 215-217
McGillis. John D 201, 202. 204, 208
McMichael, Jack 51
Metroi»olitan. David. (See Mates, David.)
Metropolitan. Morris 166
Mikkelscn, Harold M 192
Miller, David 175
1
II INDEX
Page
Moore, Elizabeth 46
Murray, Phillip 174, 175
Nicholas, Ashley J 130
Nixon, Russell 134, 138-140, 146. 147
Oken, Lydia 170, 189
Oken, Morris 170, 171
Padgett, Paul 208
Patterson, Leonard 51
Paulson, G 178
Pollitt, Basil R 158
Race, Joe 178
Raymond. Philip 202, 208, 210, 213-215
Raymond, Vera Katz (Mrs. Philip Raymond) 210, 214
Reilly. Pete 46
Rein. David 200
Reuther, Walter 185, 196
Robb. Dean 55
Ruddy, Martin__ 178
Santwire, Milton Joseph 192
Schwab, Irving 171, 176
Scott, Bertha 94, 95, 97
Scott, Cecil 85, 97
Scribner, David 152, 158, 161
Shafarman, Eugene Maurice 162, 163, 200-218 (testimony)
Shaw, Harry 178
Shore, Jerome 175
Smith, Dallas 95-97, 127
Solomon, Nathan 36, 48
Steuben, John 36
Strunk, Arthur Paul 30. 34. 50
Williams, Fred 175
Williams, Leroy 97
Wright, William 202
Yochum, James Kenneth. (See Young. William.)
Young, William (alias Yochum, James Kenneth) 204
ORGANIZATIONS
Abraham Lincoln Batt-alion 171
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 37, 1.54
American Committee to Survey Trade Union Conditions in Europe 111
American Peace Crusade 37, 38, 60, 145, 148, 154
American Youth for a Free World 154
Civil Rights Congress 154
Committee to Win Amnesty for the Smith Act Victims 154
Communist Party :
Indiana 62
Michigan: Detroit, Vickers Club 190, 191
P>lectrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America, United 139, 159, 180, 195
District 9 58, 59, 73
Local 905 56, 58, 59
Local 931 20, 49
International Confederation of Free Trade Unions 110
Medical Bureau To Aid Spanish Democracy 212
Metal Workers Union, Seine 112, 131, 133, 139, 140, 142, 143
Motion Picture Artists Committee To Aid Spanish Democracy 212
National Committee To Secure Jn!=tice in the R<^>senberg Case 154
:sationiil Council of American-Soviet Friendship (JO
National Negro Labor Council 35, 36, 60, 154
Ohio State Committee on Un-American Activities 24
Red International of Labor Unions 182
Stockholm Peace Appeal. ( See World Peace Appeal. )
Textile Workers Union, National 181
I
INDEX iii
Page
Trade Union Unity League 178-183,187,198
Union Theological Seminary 51
United Public Workers 175
Vickers. Inc 189
AYorld Federation of Trade Unions 110, 111, 174, 175, 193-195
World Peace Appeal (popularly referred to as the Stockholm Peace Appeal
(or Petition) ) 143
Young Commuuist League 51
PUBLICATIONS
Facts 28
March of Labor 36, 37, 48, 57, 58, 150, 151
Michigan Herald 214
UB News 150
World Trade Union News 111
o
CD
I 1)
A.
ESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES NEW YORK— PART II
(YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS)
HEARING
BEFORE THE
IMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOUETH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MARCH 16, 1955
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1955
DEf'OSITED BY litC WNTEB STATES QOVERNMENT
.«1UN 2/1955
BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY
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