Cape of Good Hope

Parliament
Legislative Council

Select Committee on Ostrich
Feathers Theft Repression Bill

Report

THE LIBRARY
OF

THE UNIVERSITY

OF CALIFORNIA

LOS ANGELES

GIFT OF

THE ARCHIVES DEPARTMENT
UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA. *

CAPE OF GOOD HOPE.

REPQ^I

x"l -»

SELECT COMMITTEE

OP

OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT
REPRESSION BILL.

In/ Order »J the Leffislutinc ( •'•

AUGUST, mo 7.

i.t.M!'n:i>, <;o\

CAPE OF GOOD HOPE.

REPORT

OF THE

SELECT COMMITTEE

OX THE

OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT
REPRESSION BILL.

/V///W by Order uf the Legislative Com-ciL
AUGUST, 1907.

CAPE TOWN :

CAPE TIMES LIMITED, GOVERNMENT PRINTERS.
1907,

[C. l.-l'JOT.] -OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION' BILL.

ii

ORDER OF THE COUXC1L.
9th July, 1907.

ORDERED.— That the Ostrich Feathers Theft Rpjiwxxitm JJi/f
be referred to a Select Committee for Report : the Committee to
have power to take evidence and call for Papers, and to consist of
Messrs. Hurndall, P. D. de Yilliers, Bellingan, I. J. van Zyl, H. C.
van Zvl and Michau.

SF

CONTENTS.

PAGE.

( )rder of Council ... ... ... ... ... iu

Report ... ... ... ... ..^ ... v.

,, (Dutch) ... ... ... ..." ... viii.

Proceedings of Committee ... ... ... ... xL

Evidence : —

M. J". Aschman ... ... ... ... 1

M. 8. Lipschitz ... ... ... ... 10

W. Thomas, M.L.A. 14

F. J. van der Merwe, M.L.A. ... ... 1£

P. W. F. Weyer 24

J. H. Schoeman, M.L.A. ... ... ... 30

Hon. V. Sampson, K.C., M.L.A., Attorney-
General ... ... 3S

[C. ].-1907.]-Ostrk:h Feathers Theft Repression Bill.

REPORT

OF THE

SELECT COMMITTEE appointed by Order of the
Legislative Council dated the 9th July, 1907,
to report upon the Ostrich Feathers Theft
Repression Bill ; the Committee to have power
to take evidence and call for papers, and to
consist of Messrs. HUKKDALL, P. D. DE
VILLIEES, BELLINGAN, I. J. YAN ZYL, H. C.
VAN ZYL and MICHATJ.

Your Committee beg to report that they have
considered the Bill referred to them and also the
evidence which they have taken on the subject.
They are unanimously of opinion that Legislation
dealing with Ostrich Feather Thefts is urgently
required, and should be introduced this Session.

Your Committee do not think that the Bill as
introduced into the Council by the Honourable the
Attorney -General quite meets the case, and are of
opinion that it requires so many amendments that
they would recommend its withdrawal and the
substitution of another Bill in lieu thereof on the
following lines :—

(1) Licences to purchase Feathers and Ostrich
Feather Brokers' Licences should be issued
by Resident Magistrates upon being satisfied
that the applicants are fit and proper
persons to hold them.

(2) No licence as aforesaid should be issued
to any person who shall at any time previous
have been convicted of the theft of Ostrich
Feathers or of receiving Ostrich Feathers
knowing them to have been stolen, and no
licence should be issued to any person who,

VI

within throe years previous to and calcu-
lated up to the date of the application for
such licence, has been convicted of a con-
travention of any of the provisions of this
Act or of Act No. 32 of 1883.

(3) District Licences at (£5) each available
only in the district in which they are taken
out, and General Licences at (£25) available
any where in the Colony, should be issued
to buyers of Ostrich Feathers or Ostrich
Feather Brokers.

(4) Holders of a General Licence should be
required to notify the Civil Commissioner,
Resident Magistrate or Police at a Police
Station on entering any district for the
purpose of purchasing Feathers.

(5) Owners of Ostriches should be required to
register themselves as such within three
months after the promulgation of this Act,
such registration to be made by application
to a Eesident Magistrate, a Field Cornet,
or the Cape Police, and the certificate of
registration to be kept by the applicant.
The Register containing the* names of owners
of Ostriches should be kept in the office of
the Resident Magistrate of the district and
should be open to inspection by buyers of
Feathers.

(t>) Each travelling buyer should be required
to take out a licence to purchase Feathers
and to keep a register in the English and
Dutch language detailing his purchases.

(7) No purchasers of Feathers should be per-
mitted to buy from any but .registered
owners of Ostriches.

(8) The buyer of Feathers should be required
to give the seller a duplicate receipt describ-
ing the Feathers he has purchased.

Vll

(9) The Cape Police or any Field Cornet should
have the right at any time to inspect the
registers of any Ostrich Feather buyers and
brokers, and to check therewith any
Feathers in the possession of such buyers or
brokers.

.(10) The purchaser of the Feathers of Wild
Ostriches should be required to give satis-
factory proof to the Resident Magistrate of
the district that he has purchased them from
an owner of Wild Ostriches or from any
person who is in legal possession of the
feathers.

(11) Heavy penalties should be inflicted for
contravention of any Section of the Act.

P. W. MICHAU,

Chairman^

•Committee Rooms,

Legislative Council.
13th August, 1907.

RAPPORT

VAX HET

GEKOZEN COMITE, aaiigesteld op last van den
Wet-geveiiden Raad gedateerd 9 Juli. 1907. om
rapport uit tc brcngon over het Struisvederen
Diefstal Onderdrukkings Wetsontwerp, het
Comite macht to hebben getuigenis in te win-
nen en om papicren tc vragen en te bestaaii
uit de Heeren HUEXDALL. P. D. DE VILLIEKS,
BELLINGHAN. I. J. VAX ZIJL, H. C. VAN ZIJL
en MICHAU.

Uw Comite weiischt te rapportecron dat bet
•overwogen beeft bet Wetsontwerp naar zich ver-
wezen, alsook bet getuigenis door zich in deze
zaak genomen. Het is unaniem van gevoelen
dat AVetgeving handelende over het stelen van
Struisvederen hoogst noodzakelijk is en bfv
hoort nog met deze Sessie ingediend te worden.

T'w Comite is niet van gevoelen dat het Wets-
ontwerp. zooals ingediend bij den Eaad door Zijn
Edclen den Procureur-Generaal aan zijn doel be-
a-ntwoordt en is van gevoelen dat daar het zooveel
amendementen vereischt, het aanbevelcn zou dat
het worde teruggetrokken en dat ecu aiider Wets-
ontwerp in plaats crvaii wordc gesteld en wel op
-de volgende basis :—

(1) Liceiities ter kooping van struisvcderen en
strnisvederen makelaars licenties bchooreii
door dc Resident Magistrate!! te worden
uitgereikt wanneer zij ervan overtuigd zijn
dat de applicanten geschikte en behoorlijke
personen zijn om ze te houden.

(2) Gen licentie als voornoomd zal aan eeni-
geii pcrsoon wdtden uitgereikt. die te eeni-
gen tijd te voren schuldig bevonden is van

IX

het stolen van struisvogelvederen of van
struisvogelvederen ontvangen te hebbenr
wetende dat zij gestolen zijn, en geen
licentic zal wordeii uitgereikt aan eenigen
per soon, die binnen drie jaren te voren en ge-
rekend tot op den datum van de applicatie
voor zoodanige licentie veroordeeld werd
wegens de overtreding van eenige van de be-
palingen van deze Wet of Wet No. 32 van
1883.

(3) Distrikt Licenties tegen (£5) elk gang-
baar slechts in de distrikten waarin zij zijn
uitgenomen, en Algemeene Licenties tegen
(£25) gangbaar overal in de Kolonie, be-
hooren uitgereikt te worden aan koopers
van struisvederen of struisvederen make-
laars.

(4) Yan houders van eon Algemeene Licentie
behoort vereischt te worden dat zij kennis
zullen geven aan den Civielen Commis-
saris, Resident Magistraat of aaii de Politie
bij een Politie Station, wanneer zij eenig
Distrikt binnen komeii met het doel om
vederen te koopen.

(5) Yan eigenaars van struisvogels zullen ver-
langd worden dat zij zich als zoodanig
registreeren zullen binnen drie maandeii na
de afkoridigiiig van deze Wet, zoodanige
registratie te worden gedaan op applicatie
bij den Resident Magistraat, een Yeldkornet
of de Kaapsche Politie, en het certificaat van
registratie door den applicant te worden
gehouden. Het register bevattende de
namen van eigenaars van struisvogels
behooren gehouden te worden in het
Kantoor van den Resident Magistraat van
het distrikt en behoort open te zijn voor
inspectie aan koopers van vederen.

(6) Yan elk reizende kooper zal verwacht
worden een licentie uit te nemen om vcderen

te koopcu en eeii register tc koudcn in de
Engclsche of Hollandsche talon, uiteen-
zcttende het door hem gekochte.

(7) Geen koopers van vederen zullen too-
gelaten worden vederen te koopen van
eenigeen dan allecn van geregistreerde eige-
naars van struisvogels.

(8) Van den kooper van vederen zal verlangd
worden aan den verkooper een duplicaat
kwitantie te geven. beschrijveiidc de
vederen die hij gekocht heeft.

(9) De Kaapsche Politic of eenig Veldkornet
zal het recht hebben tc cenigen tijd do
registers te inspecteeren van eenig struis-
vederen koopers en makelaars en daarmede
te controleeren cenige vederen in het bezit
van zoodanige koopers of makelaars.

(10) De kooper van de vederen van wilde
struisvogels zal eeii bevredigcnd bewijs
mocten geveii aan den Resident Magistraat
van het Distrikt dat hij zc gekocht heeft
van een eigenaar van wilde struisvogels of
van eenigen persoon. die en wettig bczit is
van de vederen.

(11) Zwarc straffeii behoorcii tocgepast te
worden voor de overtreding van eenige
artikels van dc Wet.

P. AV. MICHAU,

Yoorzitter.
Comite Kamer,

"Wetgevcndc Kaad,

13 Augustus, 1907.

PROCEEDINGS OF COMMITTEE.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE appointed by Order
of the Legislative Council, dated the 9th July, 1907, to Report
upon the Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression Bill, the Com-
mittee to have power to take evidence and call for Papers,
and to consist of Messrs. HURNDALL, P. D. DE VILLIERS,
BELLINGAN, I. J. VAN ZYL, H. C. VAN ZYL and MICHAU.

Thursday, llth July, 1907.

PRESENT :

Mr. Michau.
Mr. Hurndall.
Mr. I. J. van Zyl.

Mr. Bellingan.
Mr. H. C. van Zyl.

Order of Council of 9th July, 1907, appointing Committee read.

Resolved : That Mr. Michau be Chairman of this Committee.

Resolved : That Messrs. Maurice S. Lipschitz and M. J. Aschman,
be summoned to give evidence at next meeting.

Resolved : That Mr. Philip "Weyer, of Darlington, be summoned
by wire to give evidence on Thursday, 18th July.

Adjourned until Friday, 12th July, at 10.30 a.m.

Friday, 12th July, 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MICHAU (Chairman).

Mr. Hurndall.
Mr. I. J. van Zyl.
Mr. P. D. de Villiers.

Mr. Bellingan.
Mr. H. C. van Zyl.

Minutes read and confirmed.

Messrs. N. J. Aschman and M. S. Lipschitz, examined.
Resolved : To examine Messrs. F. J. van der Merwe, M.L. A., and
Mr. W. Thomas, M.L.A., at next meeting.
Adjourned until Tuesday, 16th July, 1907, at 10.30 a.m.

[C. 1— 1907.]— Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression Bill. C

PROCEEDINGS OF COMMITTEE.

Tiiemluy. Kith ./;////, 1007.

PRESENT :
Mr. MICHAU (Ohairinan).

Mr. P. D. de Villiers.

Mr. Hurmlall.

Mr. I. J. van Zyl. Mr. Bellingan

Minutes read and confirmed.

The Chairman reported that Mr. F. J. van der Merwe, M.L.A.,,
had informed him that he had neglected to obtain leave from the
House of Assembly to give evidence and consequently regretted
that he would be unable to appear that day.

Mr. W. Thomas, M.L.A., examined.

Resolved : To examine Mr. F. J. van der Merwe, M.L.A., at next
meeting.

Resolved : To examine Messrs. J. H. Schoeman, M.L.A., and
H. J. Raubenheimer, M.L.A., on Friday, 19th July, 1907.

Adjourned until Thursday, 18th July, 1907, at 10.30 a.m.

Thursday i 18th July, 1007.

PRESENT

Mr. MlOHAU (Chairman.)

Mr. P. D. de Villiers.
Mr. I. J. van Zyl.
Mr. H. C. van Zyl.

Mr. Hurndall.
Mr. Bellingan.

Minutes read and confirmed.

Messrs. F. .7. van der Merwe, M.L.A., and P. W. F. Weyer,
examined.

Adjourned until Friday, the 19th July, 1907, at 10-30 a.m.

Friday, IQtli J-ttly. 1907..

PRESENT :

Mr. MlCH.VT- (Chairman.)

Mr. H. C. van Zyl. Mr. Hurndall.

Mr. I. J. van Zyl. Mr. P. D. de Villiers.

Mr. Bellingan.

Minutes read and confirmed.

The Chairman stated that Mr. Katibenheimer, M.L.A., was
absent from Cape Town and consequently would be unable to
appear that day to give evidence..

PKOCEEDIXG.S OF COMMITTEE. xmj

Mr. J. H. Schoeman, M.L.A.r examined.

Resolved : To examine the Honourable the Attorney-Genera!
and Mr. H. J. Raubenheimer, M.L.A,, (should that gentleman have
returned to Cape Town) at the next meeting.'

Adjourned until Tuesday, 2ttrd July. I'M)?, at 10.30 a.m.

i 23rd Jufy, 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman).

Mr. H. C.. van Zyl.
Mr. I. J. van Zyl.
Mr. P. 13. de Villiers.

Mr. Hurndall.
Mr. Bellingan.

Minutes read and confirmed.

The Clerk read a letter from the Private Secretary to the
Attorney-General intimating that Mr. Sampson was unable to
attend that meeting to give evidence, owing to indisposition.

The Clerk stated that Mr. H. J. Raubenheimer, M.L.A., had not
yet returned, and would consequently not be able to give evidence
that day.

The Committee adjourned until Tuesday, the 8th proximo.

Tlturnda.Ui 8tli August, 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman).

Mr. H. C. van Zyl. I Mr. Hurndall..

Mr. I. J. van Zyl. Mr. P. D. de Villiers.

Mr. Bellingan. |

Minutes read and confirmed.

The Honourable V. Sampson, K.C., M.L.A., Attorney -General,,
examined.

Witness put in the following documents : —

Letters from Secretaries Oudtshoorn Fruit Growers' Association,
Koonap Farmers' Association. Somerset East Farmers? Association
and Bath u rat (West) Farmers' Associations.

All offering suggestions with regard to the Ostrich
Theft, Reprexxion Bill, (not printed).

The Committee deliberated.

XIV 1'ROCEEDIXGS OF COMMITTEE.

- Resolved : That the Chairman, together with Messrs. Hurndall
and I. J. van Zyl, draft a report and submit it at the next meeting.
Adjourned until Tuesday, the 13th instant.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman).

Mr. I. J. van Zyl. 1 Mr. Hurndall.

Mr. Bellingan. Mr. P. D. de Villiers.

Minutes read and confirmed.

The Chairman brought up the Draft Report of the Sub-
Committee.

Draft Report considered and amended.

Resolved : That the Draft Report, as amended, be adopted.

,Resolved : That the Chairman report accordingly.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE OSTRICH
FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL.

Friday, 12th July, 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MiCHAU ( Chairman"; .

Mr. P. D. de

Yilliers.
Mr. Hurndall.

Mr. I. J. van Zyl.
Mr Bellingan.
Mr. H. C. van Zyl.

Mr. Mor-itz Jacob Aschiiian, examined.

1. Chairman.] Arc you an ostrich farmer or a
buyer of ostrich feathers? — At present I am a

buyer in Oudtshoorn, but I was an ostrich farmer July 12> 1907
for many years.

2. Do you know the object of this Committee ?—
Yes.

3. Have you read the Ostrich Feather* Theft Re-
pression Bill which has been introduced into the
Legislative Council ? — Yes.

4. Do you approve of it as a whole, or do you
take exception to some of the clauses ? — I take
exception to a good many of the clauses.

5. Have you any objection to Clause Two-
ostrich feather buyers' licences ? — No. I have 110
objection to that as far as the licence is concerned,
but. in order to suppress thieving, we should make
the Act of 1883 more stringent.

6. Do you think the £50 proposed for surety not
high enough V — On the contrary. I object to the
sureties altogether.

7. But are you in favour olf a licence fee ? — Yes,
certainly.

[C.I. '07.] Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression bill. i:

2 MIM'TKS OF EVIDENCE TAKEN ItKFOHE THE SELECT COMMITTEE:

MI-.M. j. (s. AVha t amount would you suggest V— -I feel it
my duty as an old feather buyer to assist Govern-

niy u. 1907. ment and tlie country to suppress thefts, but I am
afraid a large increase in the licence fee will not
catch the thief. Personally, I may say, and it is-
also the feeling of the general public, that the
licence should be increased to a moderate sum—
£10 — but not to any large extent.

9. Are you in favour of allowing travellers to
purchase 'feathers, or would you advise that only
local feather buyers should be permitted to pur-
chase feathers in the district ? — I am in favour of
free trade. Any person should be allowed to buy
so long as he conducts himself as an honest man,
and obeys the law.

10. If a buyer at Port Elizabeth takes out a
licence for Port jllizabeth. would you be in favour
of allowing him to go over the whole Colony to buy
feathers on that licence, or would lie have to take
out another for each district ? — Xo. the one licence
should be sufficient for all. as it will make com-
petition keener.

11. Are you in favour of any buyer reporting
himself to any magistrate, police station or J.P. 011
liis arrival in any district ? — Xo. I am opposed to
that, as it would impose unnecessary hardship, and
at the same time it would not suppress thieving or
be a check 011 the buying of stolen feathers.

12. Mr. Dcj YilUers'} Are you in favour of a
"smouser" — a pedlar of other goods — having a
feather buyer's licence and buying feathers at the
same time ? — Yes. I am in favour of that. It is
on account of these people that the ostrich feather
trade has reached its present important position.

13. But they are the people who buy feathers
from coloured labourers and >; bywoners " and the
owner of the ostriches knows nothing about it ? —
My opinion is that as long as a man conducts his
business in an honest and legitimate manner, and
keeps a register, it is beneficial for the producer as
well as the trade generally that lie should be

ON OXT1IK 1C 1'K.M I1KHS THEFT ItEl'ltESSIOX KILL. 3

allowed to carry on his business. As far as I can Mr.M.j.
gather this Bill aims at putting a good deal of
hardship on the producer and the buyer but not Jul.v l-'1007
011 the thief. I am in favour of making the
punishment very severe for the thief and the per-
son who buys the stolen feathers.

14. The '"smouser" buys the feathers from
" bywoners" and coloured people and takes them
to the village and sells them there to some one
else, and that is where the trouble comes in ? — Yes.
but if the buyer has to enter particulars as to
where he got the feathers. <fcc., in his register, it
would be all right.

15. You agree that if the police desire it he
should be compelled to show them the feathers
and give all particulars concerning their purchase?

—Yes, I fully agree with that as long as it is at a
reasonable time.

] 6. Mr. H. C. van Zt/L] You are not in favour of
the applicant for a licence having to procure
sureties ? — No, it would not work at all well, as it
would reduce competition.

17. Mr. HurndallJ] You say you are against
sureties, but in favour of the licence fee being-
higher. "What is the licence" fee at the present
time ? — £5.

18. Does that enable a firm to send a number of
buyers into the country to buy feathers on one
lice ace ? — No ; but I may say that in the Eastern
Province and Port Elizabeth particularly they do
practise that, but in Oudtshoorn. we take out a
separate licence for each buyer. The question
cropped up a fortnight ago at Port Elizabeth, and I
feel it my duty to bring the matter to your notice.

19. And each one should keep his own register ?
— Yes.

20. You think buyers would be satisfied to pay
a £10 licence ? — Yes. They would not grumble at
tha<.

21. Mr. Bellingan.] Do not you think if the
licence fee is raised it would reduce the number of

4 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEX BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr. M. ,T. buyers? — My opinion is that the licence can be
raised, but only moderately. If you make it too

niv 12. 1 1«>7. high the producer will have to pay for it and not
the trader.

22. Can you mention any cases of traders hav-
ing- bought feathers from servants? — Mb, not as
far as I know. We have many feather buyers at
Oudtshoorn, and if one buys a feather say for 10s.
he will enter all particulars in his register, and will
see that one of the family owns ostriches, but I do
not know of a case where a man has bought
feathers from servants or " bywoners " who have
no ostriches.

23. Mr. I. J. van Zyl} What do you think
would be a fair licence fee ? — £10.

24. Do you think it advisable that a feather
buyer who is duly licensed but goes into another
district than the one in which he has taken out
the licence, should first acquaint the magistrate of
that district that he is a registered buyer ? — Nb. I
do not think that it would work well, as it would
disclose his business.

25. But a person may take out a licence in Cape
Town, where there are no ostriches, and go to Oudt-
shoorn where he is not known. Do not you think
that it is advisable that such a person before he
gets into another district than that where he took
out his licence, should notify the magistrate that
he is a feather buyer V - No, I do not think so. I
have lived in Oudtshoorn for 26 years, and I go to
Port Elizabeth frequently to buy feathers. If I am
to acquaint the magistrate every- time I go it
would rather upset my arrangements.

26. Chairman.'} You buy in the public market ?
—No, from an ayent.

27. Mr. I. J. van Zyl.} I only asked the
question in order to place some check on illicit
feather buying. A buyer could give notice by
telegram if he likes to the magistrate, as long as
he gives notice ? — It would not work well. As the
law stands now the police have the right to
examine his register.

ON OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 5

28. Mr. Belli nyanJ] You said the licence should MI.M.J.
he raised to £10. Would you say the licence
should be £10 for each district ?— No, for the Jlll-v 12> 190T-
whole Colony.

29. There may be too many buyers then ? — So
much the better for the producer.

80. I think it ought to be £10 for each district ?
—Then the producer would have to pay for it.

31. Chairman,] Have you any objection to
Clause No. Three — disqualifications for licence
holders ? Do you think any person who has been
convicted of the theft of ostrich feathers, or of
receiving stolen ostrich feathers, should not be
given, a licence for three or four years after ? — No,
I object to law acting retrospectively. I think the
penalty is too- severe. I think after the first
conviction there should only be a mild penalty,
and after the second it should be more severe.
I consider it is an unjust clause as a man may
turn over a new leaf and become honest. If this
clause is adopted he would be deprived of his
living. I think it should be more lenient in 'case
of a first offence.

32. Clause Four — Power of Police Officers —
Sometimes it happens that the police do not
inspect the registers of buyers for months. Do not
you think that they should be compelled to
inspect the registers of all buyers at least once a
month ? — Yes. I am strongly in favour of that.

33. J/r. Hurnd0MJ\ Do you think that could be
carried out in the case of a person travelling about
the country ? — Yes, if he travels about any
constable can go and inspect his register, and put
down the date of the inspection and initial it.

34. Do you think it is practicable ? — Yes.

35. J/r. JBellinffon*] Do you think if a feather
buyer goes about buying feathers he should inform
the police of the district hew many feathers he
has bought, and give them all particulars ? — No, it
is the duty of the police to look for offenders.
When their suspicions are aroused they ought to

6 MINTTKS OK EVIDENCE TAKEX HEEOEE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

watch the suspicious characters. If they have to
be notified it would he a great drawback to free
trade, and I do not think that is workable.

,°>(3. You IIJIYC been an ostrich feather farmer as
well as a buyer? — Yes.

,°)7. As a buyer say you buy 10 Ib. of feathers
from a farmer and one Ib from one of his servants
and in your register you state that you bought 11
Ib. of featheis from the farmer, and say nothing
about the Ib. you bought from the servant. How
could that be checked ? — It would be unlawful to
do that.

38. But how are you going to check it? — The
feather buyer would be guilty of fraud if he did
that.

3U. Chairman.] Do not you think it would be a
good thing if a buyer was compelled to give the
farmer from whom he buys the feathers a
duplicate copy of the entry he has made in his
register? — Yes, that would be a check. I am
satisfied with that.

40. Mr. I. J. rail Z//L] Y^ou said you were in
favour of the police inspecting the books of the
feather buyers every month, but if a buyer from
Cape Town goes to Oudtshoorn and is back again
in Cape Town within the month, what would
be the use of the inspection by the police
in Cape TOAVII ? Do not you think it is advisable
that the books of such feather buyers should be
inspected in the different districts in which
they buy before he leaves them ? — No.
I do not agree with that. 'My opinion
is that as long as a buyer knows that his
books must be inspected once a month by the
police he will see that his books are kept in proper
order. I am not in favour of what you propose.

41. Chairman.] Clause Five — Registration, of
ostriches. You have been an ostrich farmer — •
would you be in favour of compelling every ostrich
farmer to register his birds ? — Xo. I do not see why
the producer who works hard should have this addi-

OX OSTJflCII FEATHEKS THEFT HEl'KESSIOX BILL. /

tional hardship imposed upon himself without it-
benefiting him in any way. It is his duty to sell his
feathers to men whom he considers honest. I am
in favour of ostrich farmers registering themselves
as owners of ostriches, so that if a buyer goes to a
farmer to buy feathers he should ask him whether
he is a registered owner of ostriches, and should
ask him to produce his certificate, if he deems
desirable.

42. Or a buyer could go to the magistrate and find
out who are the registered owners of ostriches in
the district V — That would be troublesome.

43. You are not in favour of owners registering
the number of birds they possess but only that they
possess ostriches '? — Yes, that is my opinion.

44. Mr. Hiu-ndalL'] Would you agTee that 110 buyer
should be allowed to purchase feathers from an
owner who is not registered as such ? — Yes. I
would make it that a buyer has no right to buy
from a man who is not registered.

45. In the event of a man not registering he is
bound to go and sell his feathers in the town ? —
Yes.

46. That would prevent any buyer purchasing
feathers from natives and coloured people V — Yes.

47. Mr. H. C. van ZylJ\ The man who is not regis-
tered must sell his feathers in a public market.
lie should not be allowed to sell to traders ? — He
should have the right, but the trader should not be
allowed to buy.

48. Chairman. ~\ Clauses Six to Twelve all deal
with the subject of registration. Clause Thirteen
—Exemptions. "Wild ostrich feathers. Under this
Bill owners of wild birds are exempt from
registering. Do j ou agree with that ? — No I do
not agree with that. He must register himself as an
owner of ostriches. There should be no class legis-
lation.

49. Mr. HurndaH.~\ But a large number of wild
ostrich feathers come down from the interior.
What about them ? — Those are feathers from out-

>S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEX BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

MI-.M.J. side the Colony. They go direct to the markets.

^an- and are sold by agents."

uly 12. HIM;. 50. C/ta/n/ian.~] Would yon be in favour of com-
pelling farmers to give notice to their neighbours
before they commence plucking ?— No. I am very
much against that. It would impose a hardship
without benefiting him in any way. My opinion,
it' I may express it. is that the producer and buyer
should not be hampered. I want to catch the
thief and the receiver of stolen feathers, but there
should be no restriction on free and legitimate
trade.

51. What is your opinion with regard to brands
for ostriches?" Do not you think it would be a
good thing to have registered brands approved by
(Jovernment ? — No. I am not in favour of that. In
regard to Oudtshoorn. I may say that there is not
a bird over a certain age which has not a brand.
The chickens of course are not branded.

."#. But the conditions in Oudtshoorn are of
course different from the rest of the Colony, as
there the birds live on lucerne, and the farmer is
always with his birds, but in other places where
the birds are not in camps and run about over a
large extent of country the neighbours may not be
honest, and they may brand the birds in some
other way. and it is to prevent that that I think a
brand register is necessary. Also, if a bird is sold,
1 must put a brand on it, and that brand should be
registered '.J — But how about registering wild birds ?
They also come under the Act.

5,'>. Have you any other suggestion to make ? —
My only suggestion is that the Act of 1883 as it now
stands should be made a little more stringent. I
think if the police are given a little more power to
deal with suspicious people it would be sufficient.
Many Oudtshoorn farmers have signed petitions
against the proposed new Bill. They say. "Stick to
the old Act. but make it more stringent." I wish to
make it clear to you that in Oudtshoorii there are
not manv feathers stolen.

GIST OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 9

54. In which way do you recommend that the MT.M.J.
old Bill should be made more stringent ? — In regard Asch

to the punishments for thieves and for the buyers Jul7l12. 190'
of stolen feathers.

55. You say the farmers of Oudtshoorn are
against the new Bill ? — Yes, against the whole
of it.

56. 3Ir. I. ./. ran Zyl.~\ Do not you think it is
advisable that provision should be made in the
Bill compelling a feather buyer not to buy feathers
from a '• bywoner " without the knowledge of the
owner of the farm ? — I would give him the right
to buy as long as he finds that the " bywoner " is a
registered owner of birds. I have heard it sug-
gested by a certain class that a Board should be
instituted, the same as under the General Dealers'
Licence Act. for the purpose of issuing the licences
to feather buyers. I may say that I am quite
against a Board, as it will not work well. The
magistrate should issue the licence.

57. J/r. Humdcttt.] In regard to the present Bill,
can you suggest any improvement in the class of
book you are keeping for registering the feathers
you purchase ? — I can suggest this much, that each
buyer should give the seller a duplicate receipt,
that would be sufficient.

58. You think the book you keep at present is a
sufficient check ? — Yes, it shows when the feathers
were bought, from whom they were bought, their
weight, etc.

59. Chairman.~\ Do the police as a rule inspect
your books ?— No. unless some query arises in the
district.

60. You are an old buyer, but in regard to new
buyers, do they inspect their books ? — If they have
any suspicions, they do. I may say that in the
Oudtshoorn and Calitzdorp districts ,210 feather
buyers' licences have been issued. From June,
1904, to June, 1907. there were only five cases
in regard to feather thefts brought before the
Magistrate's Court, and of these only two resulted

10 Mixr'iT.s OK EVIDENCE TAKEN HEKOUK TIIK SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr.M. j. in convictions. One was a F.uropean farmer and
1 the other a coloured man. I mention this to show
-hiiv 12. i<«>-. ]10W honestly the feather industry is conducted in
Oucltshoorn.

01. Mr. Hit.nuldll.] You are of opinion then that
tho Ostrich farmers in Oudtshoorn do not suffer
much from feather thefts? — Yes. Until three
years ago I farmed with two thousand birds, and
only on one occasion did I lose any feathers. Then
five male ostrich birds were plucked, and 1 found
after a searching enquiry that the thief was one of
my own men. The farm is about 4.000 morgcii.
All the thefts of feathers are done by •• bywoners "
or servants.

02. Do not you think that people in other dis-
tricts whose ostriches have to run on the veld
would be in favour of an alteration of the Act in
this connection ? — No. I do not think so.

08. C'hainnun.'] Have you any other suggestion
to make ? — I have heard it suggested that the
register should be kept in English and Dutch only,
but 1 am against that, as we often get Germans
and Frenchmen who come to purchase feathers in
this country for the manufacturers, and they keep
their books in their own language. If this were
not allowed, these people would keep away, and
competition would not be so keen. The same with
regard to Yiddish. The registers should be kept
in any European language the buyers please.

04. Mr. I. J. van Zi/L] Where would you get the
police who would understand all those languages?
—Well, you have police now who do not even
understand Dutch.

Mr. Maurice Sahse Lipschitz, examined.

Mr. M.S. 05. Chairman.'] You know the objects of this
Lipschitz. Committee ?— Yes.

.inly 12. lyo:. 00. Have you acquainted yourself with the pro-
visions of the Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression
BiU :>— Y^es.

OX OSTKTCII FEATIIEKS THEFT REl'TCESSIOX JULL. 1 1

67. I understand you arc an ostrich farmer in ^. M. s.
Oudtshoorn ?— Yes. * Llp8lhltz'

68. Are you a buyer of ostrich feathers as well ? Jllly 12' 1!)07
~I do buy a little, but my chief business is farm-
ing, which I have carried on for 15 years.

69. Have you much trouble in Oudtshoorn with
regard to the theft of ostrich feathers ? — No. I
personally have had one case, but there have only
been two convictions altogether in the last three
years. In my case the thief was my own neigh-
bour, and an ostrich farm owner.

70. With regard to this Bill, do you agree with
it, or are there clauses you object to ? — There are
clauses I object to.

71. In regard to Clause Two. are you in favour
of having a higher licence fee than at present for
feather buyers V — Yes, I think it should be raised
to £10.

7 2. Are you in favour of licence holders provid-
ing sureties ? — No. I am not in favour of that,
because strangers may find difficulty in obtaining
sureties, and would therefore be kept out of the
business. I think we should have as many buyers
as possible, in order to have competition.

7.3. Are you in favour of a' buyer who has been
convicted of stealing ostrich feathers or receiving
stolen feathers being prevented from obtaining a
licence within a few years after V- — Yes, he should
be prevented for two or three years.

74. With regard to the powers of police officers,
what do you think of that clause ? — I think the
police should have a little more power than they
have under the Act of 1883. Now, when feathers
are stolen one has to go to the village to get a
warrant from the Magistrate before the person
suspected can 1)0 searched, and by that time the
feathers are taken away or hidden. It would be
better if the police could go to the man suspected
without first having to get a warrant to search.

75. Do you agree that a person who takes out a
licence at" Port Elizabeth should be able on that

12 MIN'UTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFOBE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr. M. s licence to buy feathers anywhere in the Colony '.J —
Yes. I think it would 'be better to have one
July 12.1JM.7. licence for the whole Colony.

76. Would you then be hi favour of such person
who has taken out his licence in Port Elizabeth
being compelled to show it to the police oi' another
district when he wishes to buy feathers in
that district ? — That would mean delay and incon-
venience.

77. You kiiosv the purpose of this Bill is to
repress thieving. Xow. there is a clause in the
Dill that every ostrich farmer should register his
birds. Do you agree with that ? — Xo, but I should
think that every owner of ostriches should register
that he is an owner of ostriches. Then when a
buyer came to a farm he can say to the owner,
•• Are you a registered owner of ostriches ? "

78. Are you in favour of any buyer buying from
a man who is not a registered owner ? — -So. I am
also against a buyer buying from children. They
know they cannot buy from black children, but
they buy from white children. If a child has
feathers which it has picked up in a campT
they should be »iven to the father or ouardiaii to
sell.

79. Mr. BclUnyan:} What should be the age of
a child before it should be permitted to sell
feathers'? — Fifteen or eighteen years. But now
they begin to sell feathers as soon as they can
speak.

80. Chair man.'] Are you in favour of a farmer
being compelled to give1 his neighbours notice of
his intention to commence plucking ? — Xo. that
would be very troublesome.

81. Do you think it would be a check 011 thiev-
ing ? — I do not see that it would be. It would not
be in the Oudtshoorn district.

82. Do not you think it would be a good thing to
have a Brands llegistratioii Act in connection with
ostriches — that is that owners should have their
brands registered ? Do not vou think that would

ON OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION* BILL. 13

stop thieving ? — It would be a good thing, but I do Mr. M. s.
not think that it would have any effect in
stopping thieving. July 12' 190T

83. Have you any suggestions or proposals to
make to the Committee ? — Only that the Police
should have more authority.

84. Mr. Bellingan.'] Can you mention any cases
in your district of servants selling feathers to
feather buyers ? — No, not in the last three years.
In the case where I lost feathers my neighbour's
son was caught

85. Mr. Hurndall.'] You do not suffer much
from feather thefts in the Oudtshoorn district ? —
No, not very much. In the last three years there
have only been two or three convictions.

86. Are you acquainted with ostrich farming in
other parts of the Colony — in the Eastern Province,
for instance? — No, I have no knowledge of it.
Our birds feed on lucerne and are kept in small
camps. On rare occasions they run on the veld.

87. Then you can always detect if any feathers
are stolen ? — Yes, The only trouble is with the
children, and the parents encourage them, and it
tends to teach them to tell untruths.

88. Mr. I. J. van, ZyL] Do not you think it
would be a good thing that feather buyers who
have taken out a licence in one district should
give notice to the magistrate when they go into
another district to buy feathers? — Xo. I think
there would be great trouble and much incon-
venience in connection Avith that.

89. You might notify the magistrate by tele-
gram ? — There might not be a telegraph office there,
and this would cause a lot of trouble and incon-
venience.

90. Mr. dv Villiers. ] Do you think it is necessary
to make the old Act more stringent ? — Yes, as far
as the police are concerned. They should have
more power, and should be allowed to search with-
out a warrant on suspicion.

14 M1MTKS OF EVIDENCE TAKEX BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE.

TiK'xihnj. 16th July, 1007.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman'.

Mr. P. JD. do Yilliers.
Mr. II. C. Van Zyl.

Mr. Hurndall.

Mr. Bellingan.

Mr.w. Mr. William Thomas. M.L.A.. examined.

M.LJL" 91. Chairman.] You are a Member of the House
, „ - of A ssemblv ? — Yes.

llT 10. l*H/i. __ * •if* n -*r

92. Y ou are an ostrich farmer ? — Y es.

93. The object of this Committee is to enquire
into the Ostrich Feather Thefts Repression Bill
which has been laid before the Council. Are you
acquainted with it ? — Yes.

94. Do you approve of the Bill ? — I do not
approve of it altogether.

95. To which clauses do you take exception ? —
In the first place the clauses we objected to most
one has been struck out that is with regard
to giving neighbours notice of intention
to pluck and the other is the registration of birds.
In Central Albany and in Bathurst they only had
these two objections, further than that they agreed
to the Bill as it stands. I will put in a letter I re-
ceived from the Koonap Farmers' Association in
which they offer suggestions and alterations.

Koonap, June 25th, 1907.
W. Thomas, Esq., M.L A.,

Cape Town.
Dear Mr. Thomas,

As requested at the Meeting held yesterday I enclose you
results of Ostrich Feather Bill after it passed the Meeting.
There were about thirty-five at the Meeting including live
feather buyers, the remainder being all farmers who
farm ostriches including the Douglass's, Page's, Wilmot,
Kent, Bosch, from the Albany side, and all the principal
men interested in ostriches on our side.

I hope you, together with the members representing ostrich
men, will use your influence with the Attorney-General
and get him to alter the Bill in such a way as to meet the
men who have to farm under it.

I am. Sir, yours, &c.,

GEO. b. TOMLIXSON,
Hon. Sec. Koonap Farmers Association.

ON OSTRICH FKATIIERS THEFT HElMtESSION HILL. 15

Tlwft* of Ostrich Feathers Bill. Mr. W

Thoma:-,

Clause One. — Passed as printed. M.L.A.

Clause Two. — To delete all the words after " Fee " in the

third line and in place thereof add the following :— July 16' 1!)(
"That he shall first obtain permission from a Board
nominated by the Government, and any applicant being
refused a licence by the Board to have the right of
appeal to a Judges Court."

Clause Three. — Passed as printed.

Clause Four. — Af ter the word " produce " in the third line
delete- the words " The book referred to in section 2 of
Act 32 of 1883," and substitute for them the following: .
— " His book, which shall be a book with counterfoil.
The counterfoil to be filled in and signed by him on
purchase of Feathers and handed to the seller giving
exact weights of the different classes of Feathers pur-
chased. The farmer to keep this for thirty days and
produce it to any police officer when requested within
that period."

Clause Five to Clause Sixteen. — To be struck out.

Clause Seventeen. — Passed as printed.

Clause Eighteen.— Struck out and replaced with the follow-
ing : " That every person possessing or holding
ostriches shall once during every six months give all
his neighbours notice that he intends to collect his
ostriches on a certain day, and the neighbours to have
the right on that day to go to the farm and also to
watch the collecting.

New Clauses suggested : —

1. That no Licensed Feather "Buyer can employ an agent

to buy for him unless this agent is also in possession
of a Feather Buyer's.Licence.

2. No farmer be permitted to allow his ostriches to breed

indiscriminately on the veld and their chicks
allowed to grow up and remain wild.

3. That 110 Licensed Feather Buyer (except at auction

sales) shall buy feathers outside the district in which
he obtained his licence without first getting per-
mission from the Board, in any other district he
wishes to enter, for the purpose of feaiher buying.

Koonap Fanners' Association.

GEO. S. TOMLINSON,

Hon. Sec.

96. Do you approve of the suggestions made by
the Koonap people ? — Yes, fully.

97. The men who make them are all ostrich
farmers ? — Yes.

16 MIXL'TES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN HEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

MT. w. 98. In your part of the country do you suffer
TM.LT' losses from thefts of ostrich feathers ?— No, not
much, but we have had thefts.

99. Do you think it is necessary to have legis-
lation in that direction y — I certainly think so.

100. Have you any further suggestion to make
in addition to the letter you have handed in ? — I
thoroughly approve of what is suggested by the
Koonap .Association, except the second new clause
they propose. T do not quite know what they
mean. In the bush veld we often have birds
breeding without knowing it, and when we find
it out the birds are grown up. I do not fully
understand why they wish that stopped.

101. Besides this, have you any other objection
to the Bill as printed ? — No. "With regard to the
proposed Board for issuing licences. I would say
that some are of opinion that applications for
licences should be made from the DivisionaJ
Councils being the local body, and perhaps under-
standing the matter better than the Civil
Commissioner.

102. Do not you think by placing so many re-
strictions in the way of feather buyers of getting
licences we lessen competition ? — There is a danger
of that, but 1 do not think these suggestion's go too
far in that respect.

103. Are you in favour of limiting the rights of
licensed people to buy in a certain district or any-
where in the Colony y — I would limit them to one
district where they are licensed.

104. You see 110 objection that in doing that you
would limit the number of buyers y— There is a
danger of that I see. and at last they might form a
ring ; but 1 do not think limiting to a district
would have that effect.

105. You have to be careful not to create a
monopoly ? — Just so.

106 Mr. Hurndall,~\ You are aware that farmers
sustain heavy losses owing to the theft of
feathers y — Yes.

OX OSTKICH FKATIIK11S THEFT HEPRESSIOX BILL. 17

107. In what parts of the country ? — I know of Mr w
one case where 34 birds or £34 worth of feathers MiT1
were taken, and the thief was not trace 1.

108. Have you heard of other thefts being y
committed in other parts of the country ? — Yes, I
heard of another casa of one or two birds being
plucked in lower Albany.

109. Have you heard that it is a general complaint
throughout the midlands ? — Yes, I have heard a
good many complaints.

110. It is not only the loss of the feathers, but
damage done to the birds through the plucking of
green feathers that is complained of ? — Yes, I have
had birds come back with feathers cut off with a
knife ; it is very plain that a knife was used,
because with a clipper the cuts would not have
been so jagged.

111. If the owners of ostriches were registered
and buyers were compelled to buy only from
registered owners, that would be a safeguard ? —
Yes, to a certain extent, and if the registration
were done through the visiting police there would
be no difficulty. I find a difficulty in registering
because I have a bush farm and do not know
where all my birds are collected.

11.2. Are you in favour of owners registering
themselves as possessors of birds ? — Yes.

113. And buyers should be compelled only to
buy from registered owners ? — Yes.

114. That would prevent buyers purchasing from
natives?— Just so. I had to herd a lot of birds
once and my .servants used to bring feathers
tramped out and all of a sudden this stopped and
I believe this was because the feathers were sold
to passing buyers.

115. Chairman.'] Who are the greater sinners in
buving — the " smousers " or the local men ? — I
think those in the trade and " smousers " too. I do
not think it is done by any farmers or by any
shopkeepers.

116. Mr. HurndallJ] Have you any knowledge

[C.I.— '07.]— Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression Bill. C

18 MINUTES OK EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr. w. Of the registers these buyers are supposed to keep

M.^A*' under the present Act ? — No, I have no knowledge

— of them at all but I believe they are supposed to

>7' keep a register. My son is a feather buyer and he

certainly keeps a register,

117. In keeping that register do you think it
would be any hardship giving a counterfoil to the
farmer ? — In" some cases it would be because we
have one or two feather buyers who are good men
but not scholars. An entry in this case would
have to be made by the man selling the feathers or
somebody else ; but that would be an advantage
because it would give the police a chance of tracing
the feathers. I do not think if that was insisted
upon that it would lessen the number of buyers.

118. In giving that counterfoil would there be
any hardship in describing the weight or descrip-
tions of the feathers ? — There would be no hard-
ship at all because they thoroughly understand it
and can well describe the feathers.

119. Mr. Belli ngan.'] You said that feather
buyers who were licensed should only be permitted
to buy in the district in which they are licensed.
Should the amount of the licence remain at £5 or
should it be increased ? — I am afraid if the licence
were raised too much it would limit our buyers.

120. Chairman.'] Up to what amount would you
suggest that it should be raised ? — I am not much
in favour of raising it above what it is at present.
The question is in deciding who is to hold the
licence.

121. You have no further suggestidns to make ?
—No, but I would just say that one association
thought that the buyer should give the seller a
receipt on which he describes the feathers also.
That both the seller and buyer should have this
counterfoil showing exactly'the class and quality
of feathers bought and sold.

122. With reference to registration of ostrich
brands do you think that would help to suppress
thieving ? — No, but it would have a good effect in

OX OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 19

•enabling farmers to find their lost birds. As a Mr

rule every farmer has brands but the brands are

not registered. )nlv — ]y(J7

123. Do not you think farmers should also have
a " check " brand which they should use in case
they sell birds, and this should also be registered ?
You are not opposed to that ? — No.

Thursday, 18th July. 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman).

Mr. H. C. vail Zyl.
Mr. I. J. van Zyl.

Mr. Huriidall.
Mr. Bellingan.

Mr. P. D. de Yilliers.

.Mr. Frans Johannes van der Merwe. M.L.A., F j1^ d

examined. Mei-we, '

124. Chairman.] You are a Member of the
House of Assembly ?— Yes. July 18> lyo7'

125. You are a farmer in the Calvinia district ?
—Yes.

126. You know the object of the Committee ? —
Yes.

127. Are you acquainted with the Ostrich
Feathers Theft Repression Bill which has been
introduced into the Council ? — Yes, I have looked
through it.

128. You are also an ostrich farmer ? — Yes ; not
011 a very large scale, but I do go in for ostrich
farming as well.

129. Do you suffer much from thefts of ostrich
feathers ? — Not very much, but I have found that
feathers have been cut off my birds or plucked out,
but I do not know who the thieves were.

130. You think there is good reason for having
legislation to stop these thefts ? — Yes.

131. Do you agree with the Bill which has been
introduced? — I have certain objections to it, but
on the whole I agree with it. There should be
provision to deal with these thefts.

C2

20 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFOEE THE SELECT COMMITTEE.

^Ir 132. Will you tell the Committee to which

^MerwI-f' Clauses you ' object ? — To the Clause which pro-

M.L.A! vides that an owner of ostriches must give notice

July i*. mo?, it* any of his birds are missing. That is impossible

because often the ostriches are kept in very large

camps and probably a month has elapsed before

you know one is missing or is dead. It is also a

nuisance to have to give notice if a bird has died.

133. You are against the birds being registered ?
-Yes.

134. Are you in favour that the owner of ostriches
should be registered as such ? — Yes.

135. I will go through the Bill from the begin-
ning. Are you in favour of buyers' licences being
taken out. and that they should be higher ? — I
think they could be made a little higher, but not
too high, because then only a few people would be
able to take them out.

136. Would you say £10? — Not higher than
that.

137. Are you in favour that buyers should pro-
vide sureties of £50 before they are issued licences ?
—No, I do not see why they should have to
provide sureties.

138. Do you think a man who has one licence
should be able to purchase ostrich feathers any-
where in the Colony on that licence or only in the
district in which the licence has been taken out ?
—No, I think they should have the right to buy
anywhere in the Colony on the one licence.

139. Are you in favour of the buyers being com-
pelled to give notice to magistrates, field-cornets
or police officers when they come into different
districts for the purpose of buying feathers than
that in which they have taken out their licences ?

—Yes, I am in favour of that.

140. Would you be in favour of the buyer being
compelled to give a duplicate receipt, when he
buys feathers from any registered owner of
ostriches, to such registered owner ?. — Yes, that
would help to suppress thieving..

OX OSTIUC'IT FKATHKKS THEFT KKPKKSSIOX HILL. 21

141. Are you in favour of ostrich owners regis- F
tering their brands for ostriches in the same way M

as they do for cattle ? Will that help to stop MJ^A-
thefts ? — I am not against it. but I do not see that July is, 1907.
it would stop thieving.

142. It has been suggested that owners of
ostriches should give notice to their neighbours
before they collect their birds for plucking. Are
you in favour of that V — No I am not. and it would
be a nuisance. As far as I am concerned though
they may come and look at my camp any time
they please.

143. Arc you in favour of giving the police more
power so that they can search, any person they
suspect without first having to obtain a search
warrant y — Yes, 1 think that would be a good
thing.

144. Do they examine the registers of buyers
now ? — No. I do not think so.

145. Are you in favour of the registers which are
kept by buyers being kept in other languages than
Dutch and English ? — No. only in Dutch and
English. •

146. Not in German or Yiddish ? — No.

147. Are you in favour of children being allowed
to sell ostrich feathers ? — No.

148. Are you in favour of a buyer not being-
allowed to buy ostrich feathers from a person who
is not a registered ostrich owner ? — Yes.

149. Mr. J. J. ran Zi/l] In the proposed Bill
provision is made that no one who has been found
guilty of stealing feathers or of having bought
stolen feathers shall be given a licence until two
or three years afterwards. Are you in favour of
that ? — Yes.

150. Do not you think it advisable that pro-
vision should be made in the Bill that "bywoners"
who are registered as owners of birds in the way
we propose, shall not have the right to sell their
feathers, or that 110 one shall be allowed to buy the
feathers without the consent of the owner of the

'I'l MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFOBE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

MI. farm ? — Yes, I would be in favour of the owner of
FMer\v'ed the farm knowing about it before they were allowed
M.L.A.' to sell.

. 151. 1 understood that you said that if anyone
took out a licence he should have the right to. buy
anywhere in the Colony. Do not you think it
advisable that such a buyer when going out of one
district and into another should give notice either
by letter or telegram to the magistrate of the
district where it is his intention to buy ? — Yes. I
am in favour of that.

152. Would you make it compulsory for an
owner of ostriches to register himself as such
owner? — After the Act is in working order I
should say that he should register himself within
a certain time. I think it is advisable that it
should be made compulsory that they should be
registered.

153. 31 r. Hiu'ndallJ] Whom do you think it
would be better should issue licences to feather
buyers — the magistrate or the Divisional Council ?

— I think the Divisional Council.

154. That body would have the right to say
•• Yes '' or " ^No '' ? — Yes, I am in favour of that.

155. What is your veld ? — It is small bush veld.
15(5. I suppose your camps arc very large? — Yes.

one camp is very large.

157. Are there more such large camps in your
district ?— Yes.

158. Do the people who own them also complain
that their birds are plucked by thieves ? — Yes.

159. Where do you think the feathers are stolen ?
—The birds are tame and come to the road or the

thieves go into the veld and pluck the birds.

160. What do they do with the feathers which
they have stolen ? — They sell them to travelling
buyers and " smousers." of whom there are many.

161. Who are the biggest thieves ? — It is difficult
to say. The thieves may be your own '• bywoners 'r
or servants, or the people who come to see them.

162. Are you in favour of a farmer being allowed

ON osTiacn FKATHEKS THEFT KEPKESSIOX BILL.

to let his birds just grow up wild in the veld ? — Mr.
Yes. If he has a large camp, it cannot be helped. Merwe1'

163. Mr. H. C. van Zyl.] What do you think M.L.A.
would be the best way of discovering the thieves j«iy is, 190;
and putting a stop to the stealing of feathers ? — It
would help a lot if the buyer was not allowed to

buy from an unregistered owner.

164. The Chairman spoke about having registered
brands for ostriches, but if the farmer sells birds,
do not you think there would be trouble after-
wards, or would it be possible to erase the
brand or have a " check " brand ? — Yes, that should
be done.

165. You say you are of opinion that a feather
buyer should give a duplicate receipt to the seller
stating the weight and description of the feathers
he has bought. For how long do you think that
certificate should hold good ? — About eight months.

1 66. Do not you think that would be .too long to
have to keep the certificates ? — No, I do not think
so.

167. Mr. de Villiers.\ Are there wild ostriches
on your farm ? — Not in the camps, but there are
some on my property.

168. Do 'the tame birds -ever escape from the
camp and join the Avild ones ? — Yes.

169. Do you know whether these wild birds are
shot for their feathers ?— Yes, sometimes.

170. In order to get the feathers ? — Yes.

171. Those who shoot them are thieves ? — I can-
not say that, but if I shot birds on another man's
property I should consider myself such.

172. I suppose people pluck the feathers of tame
birds also which escape from your camp ? — Y^es.

173. Do you sell feathers to travelling buyers, or
do you send them to town ? — No, I sell to the
travelling buyers.

174. Do you think the ostrich owner who sends
his feathers to Port Elizabeth or Cape Town to sell
on the market should also be registered as an
owner ? — Yes, all owners should be registered.

'24 MIVt'TES Ol- EVIDENCE TAKEN" BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

ur- 175. C1hairntcm.'\ Have you any other suggestion

^eiwef' which you can make to the Committee ? — No, what

M.L.A! I have said is what I think should be done with

July ix, mo?, regard to the sale and purchase of ostrich feathers.

Mr. Mr. Philip Willem Ferdinand Wei/rr. examined,
p. w. F.

\voyer. 17^. Chair man.~] You are a farmer in the Dis-
juij i*. 1907. trict of Somerset East ? — Yes.

177. You go in a good deal for ostrich farming ?
-Yes.

178. You have large camps V — Yes. I have seven
or eight camps, and they extend over 16,000
morgen.

179. Have you any trouble with regard to
ostrich feather thefts ? — Yes, owing to the size of
my camps, it is impossible to watch all the birds.

180. By whom are these thefts committed ? —
Chiefly by poor whites.

181. Who put them up to stealing feathers? —
1 think the " smousers " and the travelling feather
buyers ; the difficulty of discovering the thefts
encourages them.

182. Do you think it is possible to introduce
legislation to put a stop to thieving ? — Yes. I have
lost- from £250 to £800 worth of feathers.

188. Are you acquainted with the Ostrich Feathers
Theft Repression Bill which has been introduced
into the Council ? — Yes.

184. Do you agree with it V — Not altogether, be-
cause it is too complicated, and too troublesome for
the farmer himself.

185. Will you state what is your objection to the
Bill ? — I should like to give my opinion as to what
I think should be done to improve the Bill and
shorten it. 1 think that it is very necessary that
the return of the sale should be made in duplicate
— the one to be signed by the buyer and the other
by the seller. The buyer should give the one he
has signed to the seller who should send it to the
the nearest police station as soon as possible there-
after.

ON OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 25

186. Within what time ? — 'Within 14 days of the Mr.
sale. The police shall have the right to inspect Pw^e^'
the buyer's books once a month. These books
should'be kept in English or Dutch.

187. You are not in favour of a buyer being
allowed to keep his book in any otlier language ?
—No. To continue — No farmer should have the
right to sell feathers, or no buyer should be allowed
to buy feathers from anyone who is not a regis-
tered land owner or a lessee of the land, except
when he has received permission from the owner
of the farm on which he is living. This also holds
good in the case of farm children, unless they
have written consent from their guardians. I am
in favour of there being a compulsory registration
of brands for ostriches, and also of "check'' brands
in case of sales of birds. Higher fines should be
inflicted on people who are found branding birds
with brands of wrhich they are not the registered
owriiers, and also having a registered branding iron
in their possession wThich does not belong to them.
I am also of opinion that no licences should be
issued to buyers without the consent of the
Divisional Council.

188. Are you in favour of people who apply for
buyer's licences being required to give sureties y —
I do not think that would help.

189. Are you in favour of the licence being
raised ? — It would be a good thing for the
Treasury, but would not affect the thefts of
feathers.

190. Are you in favour of the registration of
ostriches ? — Yes.

191. As provided in the Bill ?—* No, only that a
man is an owner of ostriches.

192. Not of the number of birds he possesses ?—
No, I do not think there is a farmer who farms 011
a large scale who can say how many birds he has.

193. Would you be in favour of a buyer not
being allowed to buy feathers from anyone who
is not a registered owner of ostriches?— Yes, I
would be in favour of that.

ft MIM'TES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN I5EFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr. 194, It would not be verv difficult to do that .J—

W. F.
Wever.

P'W-F- No.

]95. Mr. dr Villiers.] Are you in favour of
17 the birds belli" registered ?— No. The brands
should be registered, and there should be a Govern-
ment stamp as well on each registered branding
iron.

1J)6. If a farmer is registered as an ostrich
farmer, should he also register his brand V — Yes.

197. Are you in favour of an ostrich farmer
giving notice to his neighbours that he is collecting
his birds for plucking ? — It would be a good thing,
but it is not workable. I should say that if- a
neighbour desires to be present and lets £he owner
know it, he should tell him the day within a week,
but not any particular day he intends to pluck.

198. Mr.' IJ. C. ran Zt/L] What is the use of the
seller signing a duplicate copy of the certificate
setting forth the weight and description of the
feathers sold and giving it to the buyer, seeing
that the latter has to enter these particulars in his
book ? Is it not sufficient that the latter should
give the duplicate to the seller, so that when the
police examine the book and are suspicious they
can go to the seller and check it ? — No. I think
that would be troublesome, because if what I
suggest is carried out the policeman could examine
the copy which has been signed by the seller and
compare it with the copy signed by the buyer
which he would have in his pocket. I should say
if the seller keeps his certificate at home, and the
police have to go there to check it with
the books of the buyer, many cases would
go undetected/ My intention is' to get an Act
which would catch the buyer who buys stolen
feathers. We must protect the honest seller and
the honest buyer, but we have dishonest buyers
and sellers.

199. Mr. llurnd(iU~.\ You have been a heavy loser
through thefts of your ostrich feathers ?— Yes.
everv month I lose feathers.

OX OST1UC1I FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 2 I

200. You are aware that it is a general complaint
throughout the Midland districts y — Yes. and it is

very difficult to catch the thieves. We have only Ju]y 1907
had two convictions as far as I know altogether,
and there must be innumerable cases of thefts.

201. There has been a good deal of agitation by
Farmers' Associations in favour of some legislation
being introduced to deal with this ? — Yes.

202. You think that it is necessary that such
legislation should be introduced for the protection
of the farmer ? — Yes. or the farmers will be driven
to desperation, and I do not know what they will do.

203. Do you know Oudtshoorn? — I have travelled
through it.

204. The conditions with regard to ostrich farm-
ing are different there from what they are in the
Midlands ? — Yes, the ostriches there "are kept in
camps which I should say are a few thousand
yards square.

205. And in the Midlands ? — The camps extend
over miles of bush country, and river veld which
gives thieves a chance to steal as many feathers as
they like undetected.

206. You cannot detect losses of feathers until
some time after they have been -stolen ? — That is so.

207. Who purchases these stolen feathers ? —
Mostly travelling buyers.

208.* You do not think they are sent to towns ?—
]^o, I do not think so.

209. Are you aware of a man taking out a licence
in. a town and sending out agents to buy feathers
on the same licence ? —I have been told so, but
cannot say positively that it is so.

210. It is not only" the loss of the feathers Avheii
stolen that you complain of, but often the birds
are ruined for life through green feathers having
been plucked ? — Yes.

211. And sometimes the birds are killed for the
sake of the feathers V — Yes.

212. That is done by natives ? — In some instances
where they have a. buyer who suits them.

'

28 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN 18EFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Mr- 213. One Farmers' Association passed the folio w-

ing resolution : "That every person possessing or
iui HI i9o- holding ostriches shall once during every six
'"months give all his neighbours notice that he
intends to collect his ostriches on a certain day.
and the neighbours to have the right on that day
to go to the farm and also to watch the collect-
ing." Are you in favour of that? — No, it would
be impossible to carry that out.

214. Another resolution was that 110 farmer
should be permitted to allow his ostriches to breed
indiscriminately on the veld and their chicks
allowed to grow up and remain wild V — I am not
in favour of that because I allow mine to grow up
wild for the sake of not having their feathers
stolen.

215. Here is another resolution : •• That no licens-
ed feather buyer shall buy feathers outside the
district in which he obtained his licence without
first getting permission from the Board in any
other district he wishes to enter for the purpose of
feather buying ? — I am not in favour of that, but
he should get the sanction of the Divisional
Council.

216. You think every buyer when he enters
another district in order to buy feathers should
first obtain the sanction of the Divisional Council V

—Yes, and I should like to make that a little more
stringent. Even if the Divisional Council sanc-
tions it there should be some further check on that
buyer, and that is that when he comes to the
district or leaves it his feathers should be examined
and checked with the counterfoils in possession of
the police.

217. M r. BelUnyanJ] I understood you to say
that ostrich brands should be registered and that
there should also be a Government stamp on the
branding iron ? — Yes.

218. And if the birds are sold, what then? — I
would have another small brand put on the bird
which should also be registered. I think it is very

ON OSTKK II FEATIIEKS THEFT ItKl'UKSSIOX BILL. 29

necessary that the brand should be registered, Mr
because there arc almost as many birds stolen as Pw?j

219. Do not you think it would be a good thing July 18>
if the police had more power, so that they could
search suspected persons without first having to
obtain a warrant V — Yes, I am wholly in favour of
that.

220. J/r. I. J. van Zyl.'] I understand that you
said that you are not in favour of a buyer who has
a licence to buy in the whole Colony being allowed
to go out of one district into another without
giving notice to the Divisional Council ? — Yes. that
is my opinion.

221. Do not you think it would be advisable in
order not to make it too troublesome to the buyer
that when he goes out of a district he should give
notice to the Magistrate ? — I think if he gives
notice to the nearest police station it would be
better. .

222. If a buyer has to obtain the consent of the
Divisional Council of each district before he can
buy in such district, then he would not have a
licence for the whole Colony, ^because some Divi-
sional Councils only meet once in two months. Do
not you think that would be troublesome ? — I see
that ; but it might be made permissive in some
districts, but I should very much like to see the
travelling buyers beiog compelled to give notice.

223. The reason why I ask this Question is be-
cause it appears to me that it would be easier for
the buyer, as he could give notice by letter or tele-
gram to the magistrate, who is always in communi-
cation with the police station ? — I am in favour of
it, so long as there is a check on the buyer.

224. Chairman.'] You agree that the Bill should
be of such a nature as not to lessen competition
amongst buyers ? — Yes, I see the danger of that,
but all that I think necessary is that the buyer's
feathers should be inspected when he enters the
district and when he leaves it, otherwise we have
no check.

30 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

p ™f-F 2.25. Mr. Hurndall.] You do not think it would
•,Veyer.' be any hardship on the buyer having to give the
ii is" 1907 scUcr a counterfoil or duplicate receipt ? — There
would be 110 hardship whatever.

226. This duplicate stating the weight and de-
scription of the feathers ? — Yes.

227. That would prevent the buyer doing away
with rubbishy feathers and making up the weight
with good feathers ? — Yes.

228. Chairman.] Could the present register used
by the buyers be so arranged that a counterfoil be
added to it ? — Yes.

229. Mr. Bellingan.] Would it not be very
troublesome for farmers to have to send the dupli-
cate receipt or counterfoil given to them by the
buyers to a police station ? — No. I think it is our
duty to do all we can to put a stop to the thefts of
ostrich feathers.

230. Chairman.} Have you any other suggestion
to make ? — No.

Friday. July 19th. 1907.

PllE.SEXT :
ME. MICH ATI (Chairman.)

Mr. P. D. de Villiers.
Mr. Hurndall.
Mr. I. J. van Zvl.

Mr. H. C. van Zyl,
Mr. Bellingan.

. HMschoe. Mr. Johannes Hendrik Schoeman, M.L.A., examined.
.M.L.A. 23i, Chairman.} You are a Member of the House
,i -,iy is*. 1907. Of Assembly ?— \ es.

232. You farm and live in Oudtshoom ? — Yes.

233. You are an ostrich farmer ? — Yes.

234. 1 suppose you have made yourself acquainted
with the Ostrich Feather* Theft Repression Bill
which has been introduced into the Council ? —
Yes.

235. Do you agree with the Bill, or have you any
objections to it ? — I have objections.

ON OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 31

236. Will you state shortly to which clauses ^
you object? — If the Committee ivishes it then I m
should like to state shortly what are my wishes '

, ,, . , p ., <f , . ,, J , . , July lit. 1907.

and the wishes or those engaged in the ostrich
feather industry with regard to the Bill. First of
all, I must tell the Committee that at a meeting of
my constituents in Oudtshoorn the whole Bill was
condemned, with the exception of a few clauses
which it was thought could be accepted. What we
wish and what is the wish of every ostrich farmer in
the country is to catch the feather thieves and not a
Bill which would be troublesome to the ostrich
owner and to those who buy the feathers. Now, the
proposed Bill would be more of a trouble to these
people than it will be of use in catching thieves. We
have gone carefully into the Bill, and we have
agreed that the great thing to do is to get the thief
into such a position that he cannot sell the stolen
feathers, and in order to do this we propose that
each ostrich farmer should be registered as an
owner of ostriches — not that he should be regis-
tered as the owner of any particular number of
birds ; further, that every feather buyer who
travels about for the purpose of buying feathers
must keep a register, and that he shall not be
allowed to buy from a farmer or anyone else who
is not a registered feather buyer, but only from
those who are registered. Further, he must give a
duplicate receipt to the seller describing the
feathers he has purchased. Then all Magistrates,
field-cornets or police, should have the right at any
time if they have any suspicions to examine a
buyer's register to see whether his description of
the feathers agrees with that on the duplicate
receipt which the seller has. That is the best way
we consider to catch the thief, and that is owe of
the suggestions the Oudtshoorn people have made.
Then we thought the licence should continue to be
issued as it is to-day by the postmaster, and any-
one wishing it should be able to go to him and get
his licence ; but we are of opinion that it should be

32 MINTTKS OF KVIDKXCK TAKKX 11KFOKK THE SKLECT COMMITTEE

M raise(^ ^i'htl — from £5 to £10. If the licence is-

j uschc

man,'Mj,?A. made too high, it might happen that only a certain

Tui 19 iyo7 class 0*' people would be able to take out licences,
' and also there is the danger that farmers would
not get full value for their feathers.

237. It has been suggested that the seller should
send the duplicate receipt he receives from the
buyer to the nearest police station within a
certain time after the sale. Would you be
in favour of that ? — I do not know that
there would be much objection to that ; but
you know some farmers are rather backward
in their business, and I am afraid they might lose
their duplicate receipts if they keep them for any
time.

238. But if they are to be of any use to the
police they should be sent at once ? — That is so.

239. Are you in favour of a man applying for a
licence to buy feathers being required to provide
sureties ? — No, I do not think that would work
well. This is a free land, and every man should
have the right to do business, and if he is dishonest
in that business, he should be punished.

240. Are you in favour of one licence holding-
good for the whole Colony, or only for the district
in which it is taken out ? — For the whole Colony.
We have a large number of feather buyers in
Oudtshoorn, and they do not remain in that
district only, but go to Port Elizabeth, where they
buy feathers which they often bring to Oudtshoorn,
and there they are sold sometimes for a bigger
price.

241. Say a buyer buys a lot of feathers at Oudts-
hoorn and it may be that he has been dishonest in '
business, but he leaves the district the same night,
what check have the police at Port Elizabeth on
him, and how can they say whether he came
honestly or otherwise by the feathers ? Do not you.
think that before he leaves any district, he should
have his feathers examined by the Magistrate or
field cornets or the police, so as to have them

ON' OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT REPRESSION' BILL. 33

•checked ? — I do not know what the good of that Mr.

\\rnn Irl ho J. H. Schoe-

WO1 06. man M L A

24?. The duplicate given to the, farmer will of —
course help, but what is the use of that if a man cfiii Jv
leave a district without giving the police a chance of
examining his books or feathers? — You would put
such a buyer in a troublesome position if there is no
magistrate or police close by. Where is a man to
go ? Say, for instance, he goes from Somerset East
to Cradock, and on the first farm he comes to the
farmer has a parcel of feathers, which he buys.
Very likely there will not be a magistrate, a field-
cornet, Justice of the Peace, or any police there to
examine the feathers.

243. Are you in favour of the registration of
-ostrich brands ? — No, I do not know if that would
be necessary. Every farmer has his brand now,
and if you have an Act making it compulsory it
would be awkward when birds are sold. I do not
see what use it would be in catching the thief, and
the object of legislation should be to catch the
thief and riot trouble the farmer too much.

244. But there are thefts of ostriches as well as
of feathers ? — Yes, but an owner who has branded
his birds can always identify them.

245. The brands may be erased?— You can
always see that.

24(3. Are there many complaints in the Oudts-
hoorn district about ostrich feather thefts ?r— No,
not many.

247. The birds are kept in smaller camps there
than in the Midlands ? — I would not say that. We
have camps of from 2,000 to 3,000 morgen. During
the winter our birds go into the veld camps. If
you drive your birds into the veld you never get
the same number back again ; there are always a
few missing.

248. Mr. de Villiers.'] In order to get over the
difficulty of a feather buyer having to give
notice to the magistrate, or a field-cornet or
.the police before he leaves a district would

IC.l.— '07.] -Ostrich Feathers Theft Repression Bill. r>

34 MIXITKS O.f KVIDKXCE TAKEN BEFOKE THE SELECT COMMITTEE'

MT. it not be better if a feather buyer's licence remain -

i<™.' M.L?A. cd at £5. and was only available for the district in

which it was taken out ? — I do not know, business

19'1907' is «/ wonderful thing, and you cannot restrict it too
much. A buyer may get a telegram from a farmer
in another district stating that he has a parcel of
feathers for sale, how is he going to manage ? "We
say rather make the licence a little bit higher. We
have over 200 feather buyers in the Oudtshoorn
district alone, and if the licences are increased to
£10 each that means an addition of £1.000 to the
revenue of the Colony, and the feather buyers have
no objection to the increase.

249. Mr. H. C. van Zi/L~\ You said you thought
that it was a good thing that a feather buyer
should give a duplicate receipt to the seller
describing the feathers lie has bought. Do you
think the seller should in addition give the buyer
a copy of it ? — I do not see the use of that. He
could see that the buyer describes the feathers
correctly in his register.

250. Mr. Hurndall.} In the Oudtshoorn district
does every buyer take out a separate licence, or do
people nTthe town take out one licence and send
agents round to buy feathers 011 that licence ? — 1
think if a man takes out a licence he should go
out himself.

251. Have you heard that in Port Elizabeth firms
take out a licence and send several agents out to
buy 011 the one licence ? — I have heard that ; but it
is a wrong thing to do.

252. You are in favour of only one man being
allowed to buy on each licence ? — Y^es. and being-
registered as the owner of that licence.

253. You have probably heard that people in the
Eastern Province are heavy losers through ostrich
thefts ? — Yes, I understand so.

254. And that Farmers' Associations have been
asking for legislation to assist in putting a stop to
the thefts ?— Yes.

255. You say you are in favour of a man getting

ON" OSTIMCH KKATIIKKS THKl'T ItKf'KKSSIOX KILL. 3d

a licence from the postmaster. Do not you think M|-
it would be better if he had to apply to the magis- man,' M.L°A.
trate or the Divisional Council for it ? — Usually T —•
the magistrate has his hands so full that he has no
time to give much attention to that. I do not see
any harm in it, but the idea is that as many as
possible should get licences.

256. The Divisional Council would have the
right to refuse to issue a licence or otherwise V —
That would be dangerous, as it might lead to a
.monopoly, and where would the farmers come in
then ? I hope the Committee will not take such a
step as to advise that or the appointment of a
Board to issue licences.

257. You must know that farmers in the Eastern
Province have their camps in bush veld, and com-
plain largely of thefts of feathers, therefore, you
think it is necessary that legislation should bo
introduced to protect these people ? — Certainly.

258. Mr. I. J. van Zyl.~] I understand that you
are against feather buyers having different
licences for different districts. But do not you
think it is advisable that a feather buyer when he
goes from one district to another to buy
should give notice to the magistrate of the district
where he intends to buy, by telegram or letter at
the least, as the magistrate is in communication
with the different police stations, and they can,
therefore, inquire into the buyer's dealings? — I do
not see how it would help. We must try to have
a Bill that will work as easily as possible. It is
always difficult to make an Act to suppress thefts,
but we must try to put a stop to it as far as
possible.

259. I agree with you that it would be a good
thing to do as you suggested in regard to ostrich
farmers being registered as the owners of ostriches,
and that buyers should only buy from registered
persons, but you have not suggested how the thief
is to be caught ? — Only by means of the duplicate
receipt which the buyer has to give the seller.

36 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

j HMschoe ^^ ^U* y°u say ^e Duyer should be allowed to

man," M^T go out of the district without his books or feathers

jni ' i9 I'to- Caving previously been inspected ? — But you must

' understand that a thief may steal as cleverly as

possible, but the duplicate will be there, and if

there is any suspicion of unfair dealing the police

will know and will warn people to watch him.

You must trap him in his own district, not in the

district where he is going to buy.

261. How would you trap him ? — The police, the
magistrate and field- cornets are there.

26,2. But the farmer is not there ? — But you have
his duplicate receipt, and you can write to the
farmer or telegraph asking him to send a descrip-
tion of the feathers bought from him.

263. Chairman.'] Then the question arises,
should not the seller give a receipt to the buyer as
well ? — It would do no harm, but would be trouble-
some.

264. Mr. BellinganJ] A feather buyer leaves the
district of Uitenhage, for instance," and goes to
Steynsburg or Jansenville. If he buys feathers
there and then leaves that district, should it not
be his duty to go to the police and show
his books before he leaves the district, be-
cause otherwise how would you trap him? —
I understand the difficulty because such a man
could steal and clear out at once, but still you have
the check in the counterfoil.

. 265. In what language do you think the buyers'
register should be kept ? — In English or Dutch.

266. Not in any other language ?- — No. Some-
times a foreigner comes here who does not know
any English or Dutch, and he has to use some other
language, but I think in that case such a person
should employ some one to enter the particulars
in his book in either English or Dutch.

267. When a man is finished buying feathers in
a district do you think he should go to the police
and show his books to them ? — If they are needed.

268. We should not have legislation which would

OX OSTRICH FKATUKUS THEFT KEI'llESSIOX JSILL. o7

make it easy for a buyer to buy stolen feathers ? — Mr.
Yes, but we should iiot increase the buyers' ex- 'man; M.LJL
penses, because the farmer would feel it in the end, Jul 1<( 1907
because they will not pay so much for the feathers.
.269. The ostrich farmer should make his own
price ? — Yes, but you do no.t al # ays get it.

270. Chairman.'] Are you in favour of children ,
being allowed to sell feathers without the consent

of their guardians or the owners ? — Certainly not.

271. Are you in favour of " bywoners," although
owners of ostriches, not having the right to sell
feathers without the consent of the owner of the
farm ? — The proprietor of the farm always knows
what the " bywoners " own.

272. In the Eastern Province the camps are so
large, and there are '; bywoners " and poor whites
on farms who can dispose of feathers without the
owner of the farm knowing anything about it
You are, however, in favour of no buyer being able
to buy from a man who is not registered as an
owner of ostriches ? — Yes.

273. Mr. Belli ngan.~\ You say children should
not be allowed to sell feathers without the consent
of the owner of the ostriches — up to what age
would you say? — I should like to say I have a
number of people oil my farm. but. I will not
allow them to sell feathers. I sell the feathers for
them, and give them the money. They are quite
satisfied with the arrangement, because as a rule I
get more for the feathers than they would. Even
if they own birds I do not allow them to sell the
feathers themselves. Sometimes the children pick
up the feathers which fall 011 the ground during a
plucking and I buy these Ibr Id. or 3d., but 011 my
farm it is a rule that no servant may sell a feather.
I allow them to go into the kraal after a plucking
to pick up the loose feathers, but they have to bring
them to me ; so that the thieving is not there. It
is somewhere else.

274. Chain nan.] Have you any other suggestions
to make ? — No, but I do not know whether it is

38 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

the intention of the Committee to have a very long
Bill. A short Bill with one or two clauses "is all
that we require to catch the thieves.

275. You think the police should have more
power in regard to searching suspected persons ?—
Yes, and I go further, if they meet a feather buyer
on the road whom they suspect, they should have
the right to examine his feathers " without lirst
obtaining a search warrant.

Thursday, 8th Auyfist, 1907.

PRESENT :
Mr. MlCHAU (Chairman).

Mr. P. D. dc Yilliers.
Mr.

Mr. I. J. van Zyl.
Mr.H.C. vanZyl.
Mr. Hurndall.

The Honourable Victor Sampson, K.C.. M.L.A.,

examined :
Hon. 276. Chairman.^ You are the Attorney-General if

V. Sampson, "Vr»-
K.C.. M.L.A. ~ ts>

277. You introduced a Bill into the Council
Lug. s, UK,:. dealino with Ostrich Feather Thefts ?— Yes.

278. That Bill was circulated among Farmers'
Associations and others? — Yes.

279. Did you receive any comments or sugges-
tions with regard to that Bill ? — Yes, I received a
good many, and I have some here which I should
like to hand in. I hand in copies of letters from
the Secretaries of the Oudtshoorn • Fruitgrowers
Association. Koonap Farmers' Association, Somer-
set East Farmers' Association and the Bathurst
West Farmers' Association not printed], all
making certain suggestions with regard to
the Bill. These are all the amendments
I can find, and I think they cover pretty well
every one of the remarks that I have gathered
from different persons with regard to the
Bill. Some of them want licences to be issued by

O\ OSTKICllFrfllKltS Till-: FT IfKl'KESSIOX BILL.

•a Board, and SIM of them want the licences to

be increased it I'iees. Others arc strongly op-

posed to any ftifcering with the licences at all, or

with tlie nuiniJol' the buyers, especially gentle-

men like M-jfembeiiheimer and others from

Oudtshoorn, ail think the Bathurst people also.

They say it wjd be a mistake to have a Board or

increase the ] Je of the licence or to interfere in

any way witlte feather-buyer, because the re-

maining feaUJ-buyers will form a ring. They

strongly urge fat nothing should be done at all

and that thexfcould be as many feather-buyers

as possible, fuJthat the way in which they should

buy should klegulated. Then the next sugges-

tion is. that tfey think the feather-buyer should

give the selle»f the feathers a duplicate of his

entry in his blks showing the weight and price of

the feathers llight,the description and so on. and

the seller shold keep that duplicate. They think

further that ilicc should be entitled to go to a

tochganger. all examine his feathers. Suggestions

have also beq made that this might be extended

to Field-Corils and Justices of the Peace. Field

Cornets I thuk might do, but Justices of the Peace

are a body ™ might leave out. I do not object

to Field-Codets, but I do not want to put people

to too muchjrouble, and the Justices of the Peace

are a different class of men. Then with regard to

the registraron of birds, a great number of people

are against Bgistration of any kind whatever. I

do not thinlthey all understand what was meant.

I only wanfd to put registration in to get the

owner of bijrls to have something in his posses-

sion to shof a feather-buyer that he is an owner of

birds, so thlt the feather-buyer should not bo able

to buy fioii a coloured man or a bywoiier, or

along the riid from anybody, and it should be made

in my opiraon a crime for a feather buyer to buy

feathers ipm a man who is not an ostrich owner.

and it sblild rest on the feather buyer to show

that thoAian he bought from is an owner of

Hon.

1907.

40 MlXrTES OF EVIDEXCE TAKEX JSK1OKK TIIE|ELE( T COMMITTEE

Hon- ostriches, and to help him I wanted the ostrich

K.C.^MPL°A. farmer to have a certificate that h
but as there is so much misundors

Aug. 8. 1907.

is an owner ;
mding. let us
rs and merely
sell feathers

d to register
k-se, if you put

knock out all reference to nuiub
provide that any owner who wishes
to a feather buyer should be requi
himself as an owner of birds. Of c-o
registration in. you must do something about wild
ostriches. I put in a clause that it ajperson wants
to sell the feathers of wild ostriches, he must go to
the magistrate. Then you would have to put in
the Bill a clause that after a certain! date a man
would not be able to sell ostrich feathers without
registration. I think that covers thb alteration^
that are wanted.

280. You are giving, more or le>s. me opinions
of different meetings and the sugge^tiqns you have
received ? — Yes.

281. As to registration, any amount of complaints
have been made, but you are in favour of having
owners registered as owners ? — Yes. if you want to<
do away with buying from kafirs.

282. AVould you be in favour of no buyer bein<>
allowed to buy from anybody except registered
owners ? — Yes.

283. Even the children of registered owners must
get permission from the owners ? — Tou must not
make it too difficult. Children I lock upon as the
agents of the owner. I think you need not bother
about white children ; they will not steal. It is the
'• volk."

284. AVith reference to licences, would you be in
favour of a Board issuing them. 01 would you
prefer that the Civil Commissioner slould do sa?

—The idea of the Board is to try and ind out who
is the honest man and who the dishcncKt. It is
for them to distinguish between wii e people.
They cannot distinguish between a Y411- dressed
man and a badly dressed man, as po;sibly. the
well-dressed man is the greater scound el . * The
Board will lessen the number of bu ers.
thereby you lessen competition.

The
and

OX OSTRICH FEATHERS THEFT KV.l' IJKssiOX BILL. 41

285. Would you- be in favour of one licence . Hon.
covering the whole Colony, or would you have K.C.?»LLA.
different licences for different districts ?— Different
licences for different districts. We want to have

some hold on a man. I have seen a lot of it in
connection with prospecting. A man takes out his
licence in Cape Town, and buys feathers in Oudts-
hoorn, the Civil Commissioners do not know
whether lie has a licence or not, whereas, if he
took one out in Oudtshoorn, the police and every-
body would know it.

286. Would you he in favour of licences being
issued only to buyers who have a recognised place
of business, or would you allow anybody to go
about from farm to farm, and buy ? — If you are
going to search recognised places of business, it
would do, but it is a difficult thing to go into a
business place and ask for the books in order to
examine them. If a man must have a recognised
business in order to get a licence then a man might
set up a business near your farm, and you would
have a place where all your servants could go and
sell feathers at night. Now they do not know
when a man is coming, but if they had a shop the
t:volk" would know where to go to, to sell the
feathers.

287. If we had a clause in the Bill preventing
any buying from unregistered owners, that would
prevent what you fear ? — But you must remember
people break the laws.

288. The difficulty seems to be with the buyers
who go from farm to farm. If it is advisable to
limit licences so that only established places of
business could get them, 'that would stop illicit
buying at once, but, of course, we lessen competition
by that ?— Yes.

289. You would not be in favour of a permissive
Bill, in this way that where the majority of the
farmers wish to restrict licences only to recognised
established businesses— for instance, Oudtshoorn
would never consent to do away with " smousers,"

42 MIXl'TES OF EVIDEXCE TAKEX BEFORE THE

ELECT COMMITTEE

v sST'son ^l1^ *n °^lcr P^ts we find-large tiumlfcrs of farmers
K.'C.. MJLA! 'ire in favour of licences being issued only to
An 8 1907 °stablished business places — they should be per-
mitted to do so ? — If you issue licences for different
divisions, then you can easily make it permissible.

290. Would you be in favour of the buyer giving
a receipt to the seller containing the weights and
description of the feathers ?— Yes, and I think you
ought to have some provision that the farmer
must show it to the police if asked to do so.

291. Do not you think it advisable, in order to
make that effective, that the seller must hand the
receipt to the police within a certain time ? — That
interferes with the farmer's business, as he would
have to hunt after the police. If there is any sus-
picion, and the police want to see the receipt, the
seller would show it. I think you should say that
the seller must keep the duplicate receipt for three
or six months after he sold the feathers.

292. Do you think there would be any objection
to have a clause in the Bill to compel owners to at
least once -a year collect all their birds and give
their neighbours notice of their intention to do so ?
— There has been such a lot of trouble about that
that I had to withdraw Section 18. I think if a
man asked to be allowed to see the birds the next
time they are collected that he should have the
right to do so. but that is as far as you should go.
I must say that the farmers have been tremen-
dously against the whole of that provision, but 011
the other hand I was told that at Grahamstowii a
man asked his neighbour to let him know when
he was collecting his birds, and he replied in
fourteen days, but he collected them the next
morning, and plucked and re-marked three of that
man's birds. AVhat are you going to do with such
men V

293. Would you be in favour of a compulsory
registration of' brands of ostriches as a check ? — I
do not know enough about brands of ostriches,
but I have heard they are very difficult to dis-
tinguish.

OX OSTKTC1I FEATIIKUS TI1K1-T KKPKESSIO.V IU1.1.. 43

294. Would you bo in favour of giving the police Hon.
more power to search for stolen feathers without K.c.aMPL?A.
warrants in cases where they have strong sus-
picion ? — The police at the present moment have Al

the right to search on a warrant if they have
reasonable belief that the stolen feathers are there.
The only other thing you. could do is to give the
police the right to search although he has „ not
reasonable evidence ; but 'what is the objection to
the police getting a warrant if they have suspicion ?

295. Because by the time they got back to the
party concerned the feathers would be got rid of,
and there would be no possibility of tracing them ?
—Under the Bill you can call upon any buyers to
show feathers.

296. I mean private individuals and servants ? —
In that case you would have to alter the general
law, because it is not only with regard to feathers,
but also sheep skins, and I would like to consider
the question from a broader point of view than
ostrich feathers only.

297. You have some objection to that ? — I do not
think you should deal with it partly. You should
alter the general law, but it is a dangerous thing to
do.

298. Under the present Act, has a licence holder
power to engage an agent to act for him ? — All
people who have licences can have agents — for in-
stance a shopkeeper gets a retail licence, and you
cannot prevent an assistant serving over the
counter as long as it is done in the name of the
holder of the licence and what the assistant does
in his name, binds him ; but I think it would be
a good thing if no assistant were allowed to buy
feathers unless he had written authority from his
master.

299. Do the police ever inspect the registers
which are kept at the present time ? — I should not
think very often. In Port Elizabeth they may.
but I have no knowledge of what they do with re-
•gard to that.

44 MINUTES Or EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE

Hon. 3(M). At the present time the registers may only

K:cSaMPL°A. be kept in the English and Dutch languages ?— I

AH '~i o- am no^ sure-

301. Would you be in favour of the register

being kept in any language ? — Xo, you must keep
the register in such a language as the people who
have to look at it can understand.

302. Mr. de Villiers.] I understand you are in
favour of making licences available only for the
districts in which they are taken out y — Yes, I
think so, because you would be able to have more
control over the buyer.

303. The licence to be £5? — I would not alter
the amount of the licence now. Except from the
point of view of the revenue, it does not matter,
because whether the licence is £5 or £10, if it is a
paying business, it will be taken out.

304. With regard to wild ostrich feathers. I do
not quite understand you V — Well, in some districts
a nian will say. " The feathers I sold are wild
ostrich feathers, and will not come under the Act."
Now I want him to get a certificate from the magis-
trate or field- cor net that they are wild ostrich
feathers.

305. People go and shoot ostriches for the sake
of the feathers, and sell them as wild ostrich
feathers to general dealers in the village ? — A
feather buyer will not be able to buy them unless
he has satisfied the magistrate that they are bond
fide wild ostrich feathers.

306. But if a man shoots wild ostriches running
• on somebody else's farm IIOAV would- you prevent

that ? — That has not been provided for in the Act.
But you could prosecute him for trespass. It hasr
nothing to do with this Act. We are only protect-
ing the domesticated ostrich.

307. Mr. Hwndall.'] With regard to the licences
in some districts, each buyer has his own licence,
and in other districts, say. Port Elizabeth, one man
takes out a licence and sends out any amount of
agents to buy feathers on that one licence ? — I do

ox osTiacii FKATHKKS THEFT REPRESSION BILL. 45

not think they should do that, and for revenue Hon.
purposes you could make a law that a man should KcSSu
trade by himself, and if he wants assistants, he
should take out another licence for each. That Al
would be for revenue purposes. You object to a
man doing a large trade on a £5 licence. I think
it ought to be stopped, and Government should
get some more money out of it.

808. Mr. BellinganJ] If an agent gets feathers
from a farmer to sell, should he have a licence V —
Everyone who trades in feathers must have a
licence.

309. You would leave the registration in the
hands of a Field -cornet ? — Yes, it was never my
intention that a man should go to a Magistrate.
My intention was that a Field- cornet or Police
Officer would sit in every ward for a week, and
give the farmers certificates. Now I would sug-
gest that a Field -cornet should give such certifi-

*cate at any time during the year.

310. Will the Field-cornets be paid extra for this
work ? — Is it much trouble ? There would be a
book, and all he would have to do would be to
enter the man's name in that book.

311. But a Field- cornet "gets no salary, and he
may be called from his private work to attend to
this registration ? — Yes, there is something in
that, but we want to make it as. easy as possible
for the honest man and the white man.

312. Mr. L .1. van Zyl.~\ With regard to the
selling of wild ostrich feathers in my part of the
country a good many wild birds are destroyed for
the feathers, and I should be glad if you could see
a way to make provision in the Bill that anyone
who sells wild ostrich feathers should show that
the birds were shot on his own ground ? — That
is difficult because you might then prevent
a man going out of the Colony where there
are no farms at all to shoot wild ostriches, and sell
their feathers. If all wild ostriches were on farms
it would be all right, but you get lots in the

4() MIXITKX OF EVIDENCE TAKKN I5EFORE THE SELKCT COMMITTEE

Hon. Kalahari, and you would prevent men from selling
K.cSaMPL°A! their feathers. At the present moment you have
to take out a £10 licence to be able to shoot wild

, . ,

ostriches.

313. I have a farm and it is fenced in, and last
year I had '100 wild birds on it and now I have
found that the lot have been shot. I know who
did it, but cannot prove it. We must try to keep
a check on that sort of thing ? — You have a check
now. The Trespass Act provides that you can
punish anyone shooting anything1 within your
fences. I think the remedy would be if everyone
has to prove where he got the feathers which he
sells — that is. any one who is not a registered
owner. I quite see the point, but a man may
prove that he got the feathers from birds in the
Kalahari, but according to this Bill he would have
to prove to the Magistrate that they were wild
ostrich feathers, and the Magistrate should ask
him where he shot the birds, and if he found the
birds were shot on private property he could keep
him until lie made further inquiries.

314. Chairman.] It has been suggested that
every buyer should report himself to a Police
Officer, Justice of the Peace or Field-cornet before
leaving a district. If that is done, do not you
think it would be placing too many restrictions 011
the sale of feathery ? — I should like to see a check
on the buyers by simply making them take out a
separate licence for each district. Supposing they
had a licence to go all over the country and they
reported in each district, .you mean- to say each
time the books would be examined and their
feathers checked V

315. Yes, to find whether they correspond with
the registers ? — If you only limit them to one dis-
trict for each licence, you avoid that difficulty.

316. Then would you be in favour of making a
distinction between a general licence for the whole
district and a licence fora particular district only V
— I am in favour of a separate licence for each dis-

0\ OSTIJK [[ FKATIIKRS TlIKKT KKI'KTCSSIOX i'-ILL. 4<

trict, and not a general licence. It seems to me _ QH^
you would be able to have more control over the £(
buyers. According to mv Bill, a policeman can

i * • i * j_ -\ A • i « j i i Aus*. o, l!n)7.

drop upon a buyer at any moment, but if the latter
has to go to the policeman he would first adjust
his register and feathers. There would not be
any harm possibly in saying that a man before he
leaves a district must show his book and feathers
to the police. He ought to notify them before he
leaves a district to see his book, counterfoils and
feathers ; that is to say, if he is travelling about
the country.

317. The travelling buyers are the people who
give all the trouble, and it is the aim of this Bill
to try to stop it ? — Yes. But there are not always
opportunities of getting the police in a district.
For instance, if a buyer were travelling through
the Cradock district /and was at Quagga's Hoek
just before getting into the Graaff-Reinet district,
has he got to go all the way back to Cradock to
show his book ? — Of course, if there were police in
every ward, it might do. I do not know much
about the Cape Police, but I doubt if there are.

i

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