WEBVTT

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This is going down.

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You had a mayor when they said he was going to be chief secretary, and then he arrived

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at the office.

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Hi everybody, welcome to Soapbox.

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This is a special edition.

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My name is Mauro Di Pasquale.

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I'm the host, moderator of today's show really.

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I'm not considering myself a host.

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Today is the moderator, because we have an informative panel discussion, if you will,

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on decision to run or not to run.

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And you're watching WCCATV 13 on cable channel 13 and also seen streaming in real time at

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WCCATV.com.

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And this program will certainly be archived so you can watch it on demand through WCCATV.com

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anytime you wish to.

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I want to first of all welcome my guest, city clerk David Rushford for joining us here today.

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Paul LaCava.

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Paul, what are you doing these days?

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You're doing a little bit of everything.

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You're a professor.

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I'm teaching and staying out of trouble.

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Mr. Levy is keeping me out of trouble.

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Guidance from Mr. Rushford, you know, it takes guidance.

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So a little bit, and you're at the courthouse.

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Yes.

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What are you doing there?

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Not as a client.

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Not as a client, right.

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I'm probate with Mr. Abraham who's doing a wonderful job for Worcester County.

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Absolutely.

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And of course the inimitable Mr. Jordan Levy.

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Thanks for being here, guys.

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It's good to see you all.

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And thank you, David, for taking time.

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I know you're about getting ready for, there's been redistricting issues going on so you have

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your attention all over the place.

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Busy time of the year tomorrow.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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This is a year for the council to run.

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School committee, mayor, council.

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Now the purposes of today's program is, you know, this was actually an idea Jordan had

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brought to my attention.

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He said, you know, why not talk about something, have a program of an educational value

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relative to running for office.

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So we decided let's do this.

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And what can we do to train people, so to speak, give them an idea about what's involved in

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running for any office, really.

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But if you want we can focus on the local office, I think that might be appropriate.

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See, we're in that year for the council to run, for example.

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And in this way I want to say at the outset here, that's what the program is for.

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It's not necessarily, what's the word I'm looking for?

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Endorse?

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Endorse anyone, okay.

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Because I know, Paul, are you considering running?

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No.

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You're not?

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No.

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Okay.

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I heard that you may have been, so.

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Well, after talking with the former mayor here, he brought me back to my senses.

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Oh, okay.

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It's all about timing.

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It's all about timing.

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And Paul's had some things in his life that have changed where he is, you know, on a personal

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basis.

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And I think that's when you run for public office, you have to have a clear mind and

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you have to give 100 percent.

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There's no other way around those things.

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If you're not capable of doing that, then do yourself a favor and don't run.

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And that's a great way to start the program off, the decision to run or not to run.

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You know, why even run in the first place?

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Well, let me start it off, and I tell you I want to capture this, because David was with

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me when I first ran, and Paul and I have known each other a long time.

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There's got to be something more than I want to be a city council or a school committee

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person.

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And that's one of the problems we've seen in the past number of years about the quality

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of the candidates who run and the lack of candidates that run, because they don't really

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have a mission of what purpose do they want.

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Everyone wants to run the ego.

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It's more ego-driven, yeah.

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Everyone wants to serve.

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We all say the same thing.

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There's got to be a driving force behind.

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You want to make changes, but what changes?

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And I think that discourse has been lacking.

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I think the fundamentals of what it takes to run for office has been lacking.

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And quite honestly, I think the quality of candidates has been lacking.

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Yeah.

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So what do we – go ahead.

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Funny, the quality of candidates.

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I remember when Joe Kasdan, Holmstrom, Alcott, and Sr., and they to me were statesmen, they

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were diplomats, they worked for the betterment of the city, they were able to come to consensus.

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They had a purpose of why they wanted to effectuate change.

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And the difference is, did not isolate them in any one camp, one corner, and take away

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from the entire process.

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And I'm not sure if we're not – if we're there today with the types of candidates and

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types of officeholders we have.

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Yeah.

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Go ahead, David.

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You want to say something?

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There's an awful – Jordan is correct.

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I mean, in running for public office, there's a great deal of give.

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There's not a lot of take.

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There's a time commitment from – by people who want to run for office, and then after

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you are successful, if you are successful, there's a time commitment involved in speaking

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to the constituency on a continuing basis to be a clearinghouse for people's problems,

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complaints, and concerns.

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And, of course, the commitment of time in public meetings is not to be underestimated.

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People who have young children should be considerate of the fact that nights out of

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the house during the week, as well as attending social events on the weekend, is all part

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of public service.

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It's a lot of give and not a lot of take back.

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And it really is a commitment.

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And when you say that, people kind of look at you a little strange.

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And if you step back after you've made that commitment, you do some soul searching, because

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you really want to know why did you give so much of yourself, because what you take away

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is from others.

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You take away from your children.

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You take away from your spouse or from your friends, because you really have – to do

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this job, you have to totally commit, because people will demand certain things, and if

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you fail to make that commitment, then you're just not going to be successful.

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So there's a lot to this.

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There's more than running.

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So do you have any regrets about that?

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Oh, sure.

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I have regrets.

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I wish I'd spent more time with my kids.

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I wish I'd spent more time with my wife.

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I wish I'd spent more time with my friends.

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But on the other side, I'll flip that pancake right over and say, boy, look at how lucky

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I've been.

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People have become part of my family.

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I have met people that I never would have met before.

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I was able to help people.

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I know I've helped people.

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I've reached out to the people that didn't have a voice.

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I was there for them.

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So I have received much more than I gave from so many people.

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But everyone has regrets in everything they do in life, whether you're running this

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radio – television station or whether I was in private industry.

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I have all sorts of regrets.

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Do the assets outweigh the negatives?

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Absolutely.

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I think public office is the greatest experience anyone could ever have.

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Yeah.

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Now, you mentioned earlier, you mentioned there's certain quality of – statesman-like

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qualities, and you mentioned some names earlier of people that really could effectuate change,

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and they had a mission, they had a purpose.

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Is there a commonality between those types of people that are missing now?

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Is there a certain background, prerequisite that may be missing?

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I think they had a vision.

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I think they were grounded in why they were running.

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And I think they really cared about the city.

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I believe the officeholders today care about the city.

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I think at times that they don't have a unified vision, and it's a very splinted

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type of approach.

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But the challenges today – and, Jordan, we were talking about that earlier – the

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challenges today are much different than 1990, 1980, 1970.

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And it takes more work on the part to unify, to go forward in the approach.

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I think an individual really has to have, as Jordan said, some burning desire to want

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to contribute to the community.

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If you don't have that, then you're not going to be in it for the long run.

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And I think we're finding that there is a great deal to talk about in Worcester.

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So if an individual out there has an area of interest they think is lacking on the

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11-member body, it now might be a good time to jump in.

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But you have to weigh all of the factors – the time commitment, the money that's needed to

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be raised to run for public office, and the fact that it's now getting a little bit

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late in the year to be on the ballot for a September preliminary and a November

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election.

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You know, Amaro, there's a couple of other just quick things here.

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Number one, it's all changed.

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I first ran in 19 – we started running in 1974.

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I was elected in 1975.

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No, November of 1974 I served – I was sworn in in 1975.

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That's like eons ago, the way we ran.

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We ran totally grassroots, totally door-to-door, neighborhood-to-neighborhood.

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No one knew anything.

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We were all babes in the woods.

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We just motivated an army of people.

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But there were issues with revaluation.

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There was a tax and spend thing, so nothing changes.

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But the media was different back then.

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And I'm not knocking the media.

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I'm part of the media, so I'm not knocking them.

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But you have a 24-hour news cycle now, even in Worcester, believe it or not, because a

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lot of things are streamed out there.

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And it's also a gutcher press.

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So, you know, the press spends a lot of time in the personal backgrounds, the personal

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lifestyles of people.

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And there are a lot of good people out there who say, I'm not going to subject my family

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to this.

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I'm not going to get out there and, you know, be an open book.

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That wasn't part of what life was about.

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We had the, you know, bob and weave of rumors that people put out there and try to destroy

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you.

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But it's different.

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And so I'm not sure they were great statesmen, Paul, back then.

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They were any different than the kind of people we have today.

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I think the portrayal has been so negative on people in the elective office for so long

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now with the media that good people just don't want to step into that fray.

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Yeah, and it's not necessary, is it?

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No, I don't think it's necessary at all.

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Fight your fight on the floor of the council, go out and have a beer.

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Right.

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I mean, we could do that.

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We could have those discussions back then.

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We don't have any more.

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As Mayor Judd would do that.

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I worked for the administration during that period of time.

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And we'd have some knockdown fights in the council chamber.

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Walking out of the council chamber, we were friends.

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We had very serious talk about how to move the city ahead and leave.

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We would have the battle that took place in the chamber, in the chamber.

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Yeah, you leave it right there and you go home and you anguish over other things.

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Dave and I would talk the next day and we're doing a recap of what happened at the council meeting last night.

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You know, where was I? What good things did we do? What good things didn't we do?

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So we were confident with each other and we built that kind of a relationship.

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And we look at ourselves introspectively.

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I don't see that happening up there anymore.

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I see individuals, 11 individuals on Tuesday night on the council side

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and seven individuals on the school committee side, they're all going in different directions.

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And they tend to hold that little bit of a grudge after work.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot of bad friction.

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I think the mayor is really going to be the baton leader up there.

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And then now the council is going to change dramatically with Councilor Clancy going out of there

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because like him or don't like him, he's a floor leader and they don't have a floor leader right now.

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So people have an opportunity, you know, get off your duff.

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It is a little late though. It is a little late.

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It is late. So when should have people made their decision to run?

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There are a lot of people who are community activists who would serve a great function being in the elected office.

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It's almost like the next step in their progression in being a fully integrated member of the community.

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But there are many people, as Jordan said, that the media tend to be in this gutcher mode.

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There are many people I've spoken with over the course of the last several years trying to encourage them to be more involved.

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They're well-spoken. They have passion for their neighborhood issues.

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They have passion for environmental issues.

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They have years of experience working on either a board or a commission or a neighborhood organization.

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And I actually have people who push back and say, oh, no, no, I wouldn't subject myself to that.

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I wouldn't subject my family to that.

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So there has to be a little bit of a softening as far as the media giving people a break.

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Let's embrace the idea that people bring many different positions and experiences to elective office

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and give people an opportunity to bring those forward.

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That's got to be related to just the economy itself.

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There's so many media channels out there.

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Everyone's fighting for attention, so they're going to go for the lowest common denominator.

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Yeah, and it's not the media's fault. It's the candidates' fault because they lack ideas.

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Everyone runs under the same premise of change.

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I'm running on change. What change?

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I have change in my pocket. I have three quarters and two nickels.

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What change? What specific thing do you want to do?

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When I ran in 1974 and 75, we came out and we had a platform.

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We had, I think, 50,000 cards, David, that we distributed around the city.

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It was a platform. There were actually things that I put down in black and white that we did when we sat down

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and decided what changes did we want to make.

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I wanted to change the form of government in 1974.

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And I said so. Oh, you know, people liked that. I didn't like that.

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You know, we wanted to do things in taxes. We wanted to do some things with spending.

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I'm telling you, this was in 1974. So people could pick me apart if they wanted in the campaign.

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Other people just put their name out there. We didn't do that.

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We went out and told people what we were going to do.

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And then when I got in office, I tried to do it.

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That's lacking out there. It's not really lacking.

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They have these ideas, but they just don't tell anybody.

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And that's because they don't have organization. That's because they're not ready.

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They don't know what it takes to get the job done.

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There's been a lot of criticism. Is this related?

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I hear a lot of criticism today where you see people say,

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well, they seem to be rubber stamping the city manager, for example.

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Is that because there's a lack of ideas or is it just that he's just batting a thousand right now?

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I mean, what is it really? What's the reality of all that?

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What do you see?

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I think it takes, in my opinion, I think it takes some courage to bring out different positions and live and die by it.

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You're going to win X amount, you're going to lose X amount,

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similar as the resident requirement that the current mayor is putting out there.

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The other thing I think is a common tug of war between administration and elected body, given our form of government.

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And I think, as Jordan mentioned, it's been 20, 30 in a span to say, is this the right way to go and push?

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Do we need that political leader that can hook the state and national institutions to our agenda in the community?

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And at the same time, do we have that manager that is a business minded person that can run a fiscal?

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And I need to say that Michael O'Brien is doing a wonderful job with the fiscal budget of our city.

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But that leaves a lot of room for idea, a lot of room for debate, a lot of room for agreement and disagreement.

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The candidates need to come forward and bring out that agenda, I believe.

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Yeah, we did some editing once for Congressman McGovern.

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He wanted to take George McGovern's visit to Worcester and he gave a speech.

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This was years ago. And the platform he was presenting was like, we're going to do this for the schools, we're going to do this for the cities.

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You could take that same videotape and play it today and put someone else's face on it.

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And it's the same issues that keep coming up.

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I have my 1974 campaign card and we could talk about the same issues.

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Because a lot of this stuff has been out there and no one does anything about it.

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There's the point. Is that another thing that's prohibiting people from running?

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I think a lot of people see that the only prize involved in running for office is the win.

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And then the lifetime career as a politician.

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The dialogue, the discussion, the conversation is as important to the community.

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There are so many people who don't sit in one of the 11 seats and never have,

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but they bring a great deal of talent and discussion and thought-provoking discussion to local issues.

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And those are many times the best pressure possible for those who are in elective office.

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So running is one thing, but being in office is a completely different story.

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And when we ran, it was a $5,000 salary with no benefits.

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It's not a bad job right now.

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They're paid $30,000, they have a retirement and they get health insurance.

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So the self-perpetuation of getting re-elected is critically important.

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So you're not going to take too many diverse opinions out there.

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They're going to tick off too many people because their fingers are all up in the air here where the breeze is going.

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So you're not going to polarize too many people and you're going to patronize your base.

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And I think that lacks dialogue, lacks challenge, lacks ideas.

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So not to go off into a different tangent, but does that mean, would it be better to go with a more controlled term limit?

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No, I'm not talking about term limits.

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What I think we should do is have better candidates to go out and challenge the status quo.

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People shouldn't be afraid to run for office with the fear of losing because it is about the dialogue.

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And ideas.

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Running the first time doesn't mean you have to be successful.

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Jordan ran and was successful. Many people have run a second or a third time, end up being great contributors to the public dialogue.

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But even once you win, it shouldn't matter if you have those ideas like Jordan was talking about,

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if you have ideas to make change and it's just not going to, it's not successful.

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That shouldn't deter you either.

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I mean, you might lose the next election, but at least you got your point out there.

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Yeah, you know, I'm sorry to jump into so much of this because, you know, Paul talked about where he was working for the administration at that time.

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Look at it. People thought, you know, I had a big mouth. I do have a big mouth.

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And people thought that I was argumentative, and I was argumentative, but I was passionate.

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I really believed in what I had to do. It wasn't a put on.

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I ended up to be the most popular politician during my tenure because people, even that didn't agree with me, respected the fact that I was taking on the positions.

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I was talking about the issues.

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But I never attacked the issue if I didn't have a resolution to it.

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So what they do now, they get it to the personal little contest going on up there, but they don't have any answers to anything.

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So this is wide open for new candidates. If they have the backbone, they have the gut, and they've got the stomach, and they have the willpower to get up there and mix them up.

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People want debate. They want debate. They want the issues debated.

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I think this is a perfect time for people to run for office, even though it's late.

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I think the public has an opportunity and a responsibility to get much more engaged than where they are at this present time.

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And I think if we look, and Dave would know this much better with these statistics, but if we look at the statistics of turnout in the past relative to the problems and challenges we have,

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I think the public is shirking their responsibility to make the elected officials more accountable.

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And I agree with Jordan that you don't need term limits if you have a very active, engaged public, because they will dictate what they want as a community.

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And I think up until this time, this point, that is missing in Worcester politics.

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I think there's a misnomer out there amongst the public that you have to have a whole closet full of new ideas to be a candidate.

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And that's not necessarily correct.

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Jordan is an ideas person. Jordan had a campaign slogan way back in the 70s that said, Jordan Levy cares. Jordan Levy can help.

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And what that motto says is that we might already have a raft of laws and ordinances and policies and procedures in place.

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Somebody needs to make certain that those are carried out effectively, and they might just need tweaking.

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You don't have to be an ideas person to be a great contributor.

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We might have already the best garbage pickup and leaf sweeping and street plowing program in the world, but someone has to continue the effort.

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It's feet to the fire.

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As these guys have both said, the ideas that the issues of 30, 40 years ago, they're still with us.

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Local government is not about reinventing the wheel.

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It's about providing direct public service over and over and over again and doing it perhaps more efficiently, cost effectively, with better customer service and people's input.

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But it doesn't necessarily change. The streets still need to be swept. The lights still need to come on.

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The police still need to do their thing.

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So being effective on the board of directors, that is the city council, might just involve taking the existing rules and laws and keeping the feet to the fire of those of us who are actually employed to carry them out.

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So that could be a platform for someone. They could say, you know, I like what's going on. I want to make sure it's there. That could technically be.

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You know, you tweak it. You're a caring person. You know your neighborhood well. You know your constituents.

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You might have a good background in business. You might have a good background in community activism.

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You also have to be ready to run. That means you don't reinvent yourself during the campaign.

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David's so right on the mark in what he just said. But you have to have – you don't – for instance, if you're just going to tweak the street sweeping program,

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you've got to go out and talk during the campaign about what you're going to do with the street sweeping program. This is not on-the-job training.

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You've got to get ready before you decide to run. You've got to understand the municipal budget. You've got to know where you're going after.

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You've got to go after the types of services. You've got to tell people how you'd like to make them better.

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You've got to go out and support the things that are good. You want to advocate for those. But you've got to go out there and identify yourself.

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My God, I mean, I've had these people on my show, these candidates. I'm not going to do it this election because they all – it's the most boring 15-, 20-minute interview

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because they all say the same thing. They run the tape on everybody. They're being careful. They're saying the same thing.

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Everyone wants change. I get up every morning, I change. I change my underwear. I change my clothes. You know, we want change.

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You know, we've had – this coming year, we're going to have the – 25th anniversary of district representation on the city council.

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Being a district city councilor is a very much different job than being an at-large councilor.

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And I think that people running for office really should know that difference, that a person who represents one-fifth of the city

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needs to know intimately the neighborhoods that are involved in that district, whereas the at-large has a bigger vision,

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macro vision of the city and its problems, where its direction is going, its economic development.

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So there are two different types of people on city council, so it isn't just a one-thought process that goes into running for elected office locally.

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I also think we have to have a discussion in this city. And if I was a candidate running,

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one of my prime platforms would be to have a discussion about the charter in the city of Worcester.

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This charter has to be reviewed, whether you change from the form of government or you don't.

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The charter is not an effective charter as it is. It's old, it's stale, and it has to be updated.

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It would be one of the major issues that I would talk about as you look at district representation, you're looking at large representation,

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you're looking at polarization, you're looking at the demographics, you're looking at the needs of the city now in five years and ten years from now.

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This charter has to be looked at again. And it shouldn't be revolutionary.

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So we shouldn't make it between the manager and a strong mayor.

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First of all, it would take five, six years to go through the process unless you did a legislative move.

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But the reticence to really have a discussion about the book that runs the city, this is nuts.

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And it's 25 years old.

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And because the mayor could hold many titles in redefined roles.

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Could all of them be from the president of the council to the strong mayor of the city.

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I was a strong first elected mayor. Was that an effective period of change in the city?

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Or is there a misnomer? And it has continued to perpetuate this misnomer through Ray Mariano, Tim Murray, Connie Moogs, and now Joe O'Brien.

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I mean, are we doing a disservice having the structure as it is right now?

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Yeah, what's the point of having a mayor if it's just ceremonial, really?

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It's one of 11, it's one of 11 votes.

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But, and I need to give Jordan some credit, because when I worked for the administration,

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we did not want to really identify that we had gang problems at one time in the city of Worcester.

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And though the power is ceremonial in oversight of the council, the agenda, so forth and so on,

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it can also set the course of public policy.

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And the gang problem was one of the bigger, if people look back 20 years, discussion that was brought forward through Jordan and the council,

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pushing the administration to come to terms with the problem that we had.

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And it gave, at that time, Chief Gardella some opportunity to bring some preventative types of programs.

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And at least keep our city within check.

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We're not absent that problem today, but that was a mayor-council push relative to public policy.

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And I think myself personally, our council need to do much more public policy, given the challenges we face as a community.

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So then, do you need any special requisites for that?

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Do I need to be an attorney? Do I need to have some certain background for this?

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Go ahead. You've held on to it.

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David, you've looked at it. You need to have a heart. You need to know the local, you need to know contemporarily what this city is comprised of.

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Are we a college town? Are we a city of working people?

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Are we a city where people actually reside but travel to work in 128 and 495?

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Are we a combination of all of those things? Are we a place for many different ethnic groups?

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Or are we, or what are we? What do we want to be?

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Paul is correct, Jordan is correct. Setting policy is the job of this board of directors, that is the city council.

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Moving forward, that's the crux of the discussion that needs to take place.

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So even whether you win or lose, if you've instigated a conversation, that's what's very important.

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And that highlights the fact why you need dialogue, why you need to have this kind of dialogue that you're talking about.

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There are no forums. I mean, the League of Women Voters does a forum. No one shows up on the League of Women Voters.

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You might carry it on your station. We might carry it live on our station.

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Everyone changes the turn on when they hear it. They don't want to hear it.

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I mean, I can, you know, I mean...

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Well, the viewers become kind of jaded. It's like, oh, they're just going to promote themselves.

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It's the same thing. Because we see the negative side. We see Sal DeMassi going on trial tomorrow.

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He just drags down everybody that's in public office to the lowest common denominator.

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Because the purpose comes across, everyone's a crook.

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Well, we know some people are crooks, but the majority of people that I've dealt with in public office

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in almost 40 years now have been honest, hardworking men and women that really give a damn about who they serve.

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They don't get a lot of play.

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What's the turnout? What was the last turnout? That's an interesting...

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Between 20 and 25 percent. And you know, in this morning's media, there was a study that was just released

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that talked about the fact that younger people have fallen victim by their own deed to what is called social autism.

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And it doesn't have anything to do with clinical autism. It has to do with the lack of engagement of so many people.

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And that is a very big problem. We have people who have vested interests in the future of this city.

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They're homeowners, they're taxpayers, they have children in the school system,

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they're older people who want a safe community to live in, and they are disengaged.

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Everyone is so busy doing this and on the web that there is a lack of engagement civically.

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And that is a very big problem. Someone who can go out and motivate people to become civically involved,

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whether it's through neighborhood organizations, crime watch groups, religious organizations.

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This is what we really need. We need people who are willing to get out there and reengage the public

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so that the job of government becomes something that everybody, the majority, are concerned with.

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And that's where the tea party concept has such a wonderful concept. Forget the national tea party.

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But here's a group of people that all of a sudden want to get involved in the government.

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Well, they agree with them, you don't agree with them left or right, it makes no difference.

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The problem they have is they identify themselves as one philosophy.

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But if they just did it for a broader philosophy and then could motivate and bring people to the point of taking out nomination papers,

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that's what's behind your candidate. Marching them through the process, doing the door to door.

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I mean, no one understands how big Worcester is until you start walking its neighborhoods.

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And we walk the neighborhoods.

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You know, Jordan, what's interesting in your statement, and I'm flashing back to the college campuses back in the late 60s and 70s,

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and the protests, the massive amount of young adults that would come out and protest the war in Vietnam.

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Excuse me for a second. No, we're going to go, this is a special edition, we're going to go longer today.

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So we hear the music, that's usually the cutoff point.

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But I just wanted to tell the viewers, you're watching WCC TV, a special edition of Sobox.

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We're continuing nonstop, so we're going to keep going right through with the show.

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So I want you to stay here because we're keeping going. We're going to pick up on that. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

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And I'd like to, you know, you look back and you would see that social movement on the campuses relative to the issues that were most important to them.

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Today we have some significant wars going on. We have significant issues.

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You do not, in my opinion, see that type of energy movement on the campuses of trying to effectuate change on the macro level.

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And I think what Dave said, it goes all the way down to the micro level in our neighborhoods.

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Where is the movement for change?

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Well, there is conversation out there, I guess, that I'm dating myself by casting a blanket over everything.

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There are plenty of blogs out there that will give you conversation, but there's a big problem with that.

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Blogs are anonymous. Blogs are hateful. Blogs have no accountability.

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When you come out as a community activist or a person who wants to be involved in your community, you have an identity.

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You're out in the community. It's physical. It's not virtual.

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To have virtual involvement as a cop-out, and it will not benefit this community in the long run, to effectuate policy with reference to the involvement of the colleges in Worcester,

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to talk about community policing and the effectiveness and the deployment of police and fire throughout the city.

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That's something that doesn't take place in a blog, because a blog is a hit, whack somebody, get off, go do something different.

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That doesn't serve an end result.

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You want someone speaking from their own experiences.

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You want someone who knows his individual. Like David talked earlier about the district council.

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If you're going to run at large and you hope to be mayor or whatever you're going to do, you've got to go out there and identify the neighborhood needs and the people's needs.

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I remember the time that we spent in Great Brook Valley, and the disappointment the first night of the September primary when we came in, I think there were 36 people on the ballot, I think, at that time.

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We came in like 17th and I had 11 votes. We spent like three days in the valley, got 11 votes or 7 votes or whatever it was.

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But you know something? Someone had to represent the voice, and you had to be willing to go out there.

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So I think, you know, if people are thinking about running, just, you know, get out there and just don't run.

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I mean, you've got to move around, you've got to talk about the issues, forget the blogs and the technical things.

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That's how you put together the campaign organization. The internet's a great vehicle to identify voters, make sure you do a voter poll, get them all to the polls, do all of those things.

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But if you don't go out and talk issues and force the debate, if you're waiting for the media to force the debate, it's not happening.

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The candidates have to force the debate.

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Challenging. Damn it, I just don't understand why people run for city council and school committee and don't challenge the incumbents.

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Individually. Individually. They pick out a couple of councilors who aren't doing their job.

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Well, even in the last statewide elections, you have people doing that, and some people just didn't want to show up.

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Yeah, that's fine. You know, then you have an empty chair on the stage, and you debate your empty chair.

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I mean, you do theatrics, but you know something? You do something.

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But no one wants to – they want to be – I understand there's one of six votes for at-large, so you don't want to lose Paul's vote, you don't want to lose David's vote.

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Keep everybody happy.

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So what happens? You lose. You lose. Because people go out, 25 percent, and they go, I remember his name.

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People still think I'm running for mayor. I just gave you a vote, and I leave the voting booth. They have no idea.

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We don't count those, George.

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I've been watching very carefully, David. But you know, I mean, that's pretty sad when the guy says, I just gave you one, let me know.

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I haven't been on the ballot in 20 years.

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But that's a big difference. You know, that's one of the big differences, I think, when you talked about how it's changed over the years, is the social media.

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I love that term, the social autism. Social autism.

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Because people are just focused on this one thing. It's a virtual world. But there's a good and bad about that, as you point out.

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You can use this media to maybe pull people to get the word out. But on the other hand, it is, in a way, it's disconnecting people when you think it would be connecting people, but it's not, really.

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When was the last time a candidate running for city council or school committee sent out a questionnaire to the voters about issues that were important to them?

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I mean, you put your name on top, you can do this for less money today than you could do even back when we were there.

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And you'd go out there and try to find out what really people want to say.

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If nothing more, it would be a hell of a campaign beginning point of reaching out to people and saying, hey, you know, here's my thoughts.

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Do you agree or disagree with this? And will you put in your comments below and get some insurance from the colleges?

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I mean, David knocked on my door when I first ran. We did not know David. And he didn't want to move in with us forever.

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But anyway, but you know, he knocked on the door. He's a young man. He was just a young man. I think he was 18 years old.

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He said, I want to work for him. And we had Dave, if you remember, this is not about me, but it's an interesting microcosm of what could happen today.

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We had we did not have a single person in our organization that knew how to work in a campaign.

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But Jordan, there have to be people out there in 2011 who have either disenfranchisement from the local scene or they have a burning interest for something in their neighborhood and want to come forward.

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So it's our job to say to people, this is how you do it. How do we inculcate that in people in this day and age?

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Do they see that fundraising is something they can't possibly accomplish?

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Do they see the bookkeeping that's involved in running for office as something they can't overcome?

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They don't have a talent or they don't have a connection to somebody who will help them with that.

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There needs to be an infusion of young people who are going to take over and be responsible for what happens in our neighborhoods and in our schools.

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You know, we haven't talked about schools, but my God, if there's lethargy and running for office, it's a disease with the school system.

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School committee.

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We sometimes have an inability to get more than the basic six who are going to be serious candidates for school committee.

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When they occupy 60 to 65 percent of the budget locally, that's an absolutely amazing lack of interest.

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And again, they get less of the media attention, I think.

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And the schools, an interesting point, the bulk of the children in school are minorities, the bulk.

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And one of the lowest turnout in our community per capita is from the minority community.

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And I think there needs to be a lot of engagement.

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I think 10 years from now, the city of Worcester is going to be quite different.

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We've spent a living fortune of time and energy and resources into the minority community to get them to register to vote into vote.

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And it perpetuates itself over and over and over again.

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This has to come from within the community.

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The community has to rise in the leadership within the community.

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If there's leadership in that community has got to decide that in order to get out of poverty and get out and get a fair shot in this community, the change of color has to take place.

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And that has to come from within the community.

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David Rushford took over the election commission and has done more of a voter registration and reaching out into the minority community than ever before.

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His predecessor worked on that.

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But, you know, we still see the voter turnout.

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We still see 5, 6, 7 percent of that community comes out.

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It's growing.

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It has to come from within the community.

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If it doesn't, it's not going to happen.

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Doesn't it just boggle your mind that people who have the most, the biggest vested interest, people who have students in the school system?

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They don't vote.

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We don't see them voting.

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Right.

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I just don't see why is there not a connection between participation at the voting booth and people's result in the classroom?

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Why is it that it's always a we versus them attitude?

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Lack of vote.

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Has there been any poll to that, to that nature?

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I mean, is it, is it people work?

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It's the reality.

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They can't make it?

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You don't need a poll to discern it.

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There's no excuse.

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There's no excuse.

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I wonder also, we have many immigrants coming here from different types of governments, different countries.

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And I want to go back to the charter.

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When I worked for the city, it was interesting.

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A number of people within the minority community looked at the mayor as the person that ran the city.

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He or she was the all power in our government, because that's the type of government that they did come from.

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And I think some of it, going back to the charter review, I think it needs to be looked at.

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How do we engage all communities?

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How do we?

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But you know, Paul, what we did then is we took the position.

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We understood the charter had certain precluding responsibilities.

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We went out and talked about that.

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But we also represented the people.

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You know, we had a bully pulpit.

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But we went out and made sure that what we stood for was what the people wanted.

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So I was an advocate.

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And I think that's OK.

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And you have to become an advocate.

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You just can't run out to left field and come up with some bird brain idea that is not relevant to the quality of life of the people in the city of Worcester.

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But you're going to go out there and go inside the communities and be the – and carry back for them.

37:35.000 --> 37:39.000
But you know, David Rushford, as a city clerk and head of the election commission,

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there's a clearinghouse folks out there that if you want to run for public office, you have any questions whatsoever.

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I mean, one of the purposes of you putting this show together was how do people run?

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Well, you know, this guy's got fortunes of knowledge and a –

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So this is one learning moment right now, another learning –

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Right now. And I'm going to tell people.

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Go ahead.

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I mean, there's a clearinghouse.

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And he's got an assistant that is fantastic up there.

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So people don't have to fear what are the regulations, what are the rules.

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David has tremendous – and I'm not topping him up.

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He just does this wonderful work.

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He has made it accessible.

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People don't have to fear.

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Call someone that was a former electorate official.

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Ask them to have a cup of coffee with them.

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Sit down with them.

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You don't have to take their ideas.

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What's it like?

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Go to the library.

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There's a raft of information at the public library.

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And maybe even the League of Women Voters.

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I don't know how active they are anymore, but it's another clearinghouse.

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The League actually held a pretty successful run-or-not-run forum at the library.

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It's the second or third time they've done it.

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We participated in that.

38:43.000 --> 38:47.000
Josh Madunor in our office actually is our representative.

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And we do see a number of people putting their foot in the water,

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trying to find out if this is something that is good for them.

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So there are glimmers of hope.

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And with Jordan, with your encouragement on the radio, and Paul, you from the trenches,

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having fielders out there all throughout the community,

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I hope that we do see some new people coming forward, at least for the discussion,

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and at least to engage the public in what goes on within the city government.

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It is a $500 million budget.

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And no one should ever run unopposed.

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No one should ever run unopposed.

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Now say you get in your mouth, okay, I know why I want to run.

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And I've discerned the fact that, okay, it's not a stepping stone.

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I'm not looking for a career, but I have these issues,

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and this is what I sincerely want to run for.

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What happens then?

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What's the first step I need to do?

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I think people need to get together around a table with some people they might rely on

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that are going to help them to get their message out.

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Nobody can work singularly.

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You need to have your ideas bounced off of people.

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Find out if they resonate.

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Then come to City Hall, come to the elections office on the second floor,

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talk with Joshua about the requirements,

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what signature requirements are there for the particular office.

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We'll put you in touch with the office of campaign and political finance.

39:59.000 --> 40:02.000
Talk to them about setting up your depository account.

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Easy to do.

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So you have to have an account that's separate from your personal account to run?

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Correct. Oh, yes.

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But people don't have to fear from that because it's a very easy thing to do

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because Josh and David over at the registrar of voters

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can very simply tell you where to go and what bank to go to, not what is a multitude.

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You go over to a bank and you go over to someone working there,

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and they set up the account.

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And then the political finance office, very easy to work with these people in Boston.

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They're very cooperative.

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And if you have a problem with the farm, go back up to the clerks office.

40:37.000 --> 40:39.000
And Josh will come over and tell them.

40:39.000 --> 40:41.000
And I've seen this in a working.

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Because, you know, again, if you've been as long as Duritt, like I have been,

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you know, we didn't have those reporting to begin with.

40:48.000 --> 40:50.000
And then they did have them while I was still there.

40:50.000 --> 40:53.000
The majority of people who sit on the local city council,

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this is their first foray into public office.

40:55.000 --> 40:58.000
Not many people come into it with previous experience.

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Let's face it, people in city council aren't coming down from serving as congressmen.

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They're coming from the neighborhood level.

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They're coming from either their professional background

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and bringing that expertise, whether it's in accounting, history, teaching, whatever.

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They're bringing it to the forefront for perhaps the very first time.

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So are there special requirements?

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Like you mentioned, you have to have a separate account.

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Why do you even need money in the first place?

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Can you run without funds today?

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Can you use social media, community media?

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Is there other ways to do it without really having to raise money?

41:33.000 --> 41:37.000
What is it, Obama's going to raise $1 billion to run for president?

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State rep race in the 13th district, some of the candidates were up to $40,000, $30,000, $40,000.

41:45.000 --> 41:50.000
The race itself collectively was $152,000, so it's kind of difficult.

41:50.000 --> 41:52.000
I think the answer to that is Bill Coleman.

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Right.

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Bill Coleman has been involved with more social issues and helpful issues.

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He gets a little fruity every once in a while with some of his ideas.

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But certainly has had his name out there since I first ran in 19 when he walked down Mary Skano's on a Saturday night with a tuxedo on.

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He and the race putting that recipe with his card on there with Ed Brooks' picture on the other side.

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Jordan, we need more eclectic people.

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Here's a guy that earned his spurs to be elected to the city council,

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but never organized a group of people that could get them there.

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And I understand he had some color line problems when he first began.

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I mean, anyone that says that wasn't there, that's fluid.

42:34.000 --> 42:36.000
But that's not an excuse for not winning.

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But he never raised enough money.

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He never got serious in a campaign.

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He never had any kind of people organized, never sat at the table.

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Bill would look in the mirror and go out and campaign.

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Well, Bill was never going to be on the Worcester City Council because he's now, you know, he's just fired himself right out.

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You really need to join people.

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You need to share your ideas to engage other people in your mission.

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If you can do that, then the money follows logically.

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And the money will come.

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Now, you don't need $50,000 to run for city council.

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So that's not a measurement.

43:04.000 --> 43:06.000
This guy can raise $200 million.

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This guy can raise $55.

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But if you don't have an organization, you're not going to raise a dime unless you want to self-support your own campaign.

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I mean, once you get the knowledge out there that you have enough people around you,

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that word will get out there and you start running fundraisers, small fundraisers.

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And house parties.

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This is a job.

43:27.000 --> 43:29.000
Where's all the money going to go when you raise it?

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I'm saying this for the – I have an idea.

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It's all media.

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Is it all media?

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It's all media.

43:35.000 --> 43:36.000
So does it –

43:36.000 --> 43:37.000
You don't want a campaign manager.

43:37.000 --> 43:40.000
You don't need a campaign manager to run for city council or school committee.

43:40.000 --> 43:42.000
That's a waste of money.

43:42.000 --> 43:50.000
Can raising too much money put you into a position where you're compromising your values and your initial goals and your mission statement?

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Oh, if you don't have any values when you come in.

43:52.000 --> 43:55.000
I mean, we limited our campaigns to $100.

43:55.000 --> 43:57.000
I always had a $100 bill in my wallet.

43:57.000 --> 44:03.000
My platform was, if you give me money and you ask me for a favor, I'm giving you $100 back.

44:03.000 --> 44:05.000
And I ran on that for 20 years.

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And I did.

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I always carried $100.

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I don't know if I gave it back because I don't have the $100 in my wallet.

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Jordan, I don't think anybody would have dared give you more than $100.

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That's just – I was too dangerous.

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But that's the thing.

44:16.000 --> 44:19.000
So I mean, I think everything's limited to what you have to do.

44:19.000 --> 44:20.000
I don't think there's too much money.

44:20.000 --> 44:22.000
If you sell yourself out, you sell yourself out.

44:22.000 --> 44:23.000
If you're a crook, you're a crook.

44:23.000 --> 44:26.000
And it makes a difference whether you're in office or out of office.

44:26.000 --> 44:29.000
In age, just no limit to age.

44:29.000 --> 44:33.000
I hope my friend on the left-hand side here is erasing them somewhere.

44:33.000 --> 44:34.000
One more race.

44:34.000 --> 44:35.000
One rocky.

44:35.000 --> 44:36.000
We'll put a rocky music.

44:36.000 --> 44:38.000
One more.

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But age is not an issue.

44:41.000 --> 44:43.000
So it's definitely something you have in your heart.

44:43.000 --> 44:45.000
You see value change.

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You see this strategic opportunity to make that change.

44:50.000 --> 44:51.000
There's some legal requirements.

44:51.000 --> 44:54.000
Let's look at Gary Rosen for a minute.

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Prime example.

44:55.000 --> 44:57.000
The guy never had an organization in his life.

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He never raised any serious money.

44:59.000 --> 45:05.000
He gave out more combs than were ever invented on man's earth to all the people that had no hair.

45:05.000 --> 45:09.000
But he just did it with sweat equity.

45:09.000 --> 45:11.000
I mean, he just stood on comedy.

45:11.000 --> 45:12.000
Yeah, sure.

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His budget wasn't probably huge.

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You know, I mean, and he broke himself in.

45:16.000 --> 45:18.000
He lasted.

45:18.000 --> 45:19.000
He lasted.

45:19.000 --> 45:21.000
So would I run a campaign like Gary Rosen's?

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No, I would not because he's probably a misnomer.

45:25.000 --> 45:33.000
But you can do some things without spending a lot of money if you have organization, friends, people that believe in your message.

45:33.000 --> 45:37.000
What about those people that say they just want to run just to make a point, but they're not really serious?

45:37.000 --> 45:38.000
Is that a waste of everybody's time and money?

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Or is it worth it in the terms of, you know, put policy somewhere along the line?

45:44.000 --> 45:49.000
You see the number of issues that come before the city council, you really need to become well-versed.

45:49.000 --> 45:52.000
You can't just be a one-issue person and let everything else just float by you.

45:52.000 --> 45:53.000
You really need to be engaged.

45:53.000 --> 46:02.000
You really need to care about things that happen across a wide spectrum of issues, not just taxation, not just teaching, not just crime.

46:02.000 --> 46:09.000
You need to take a look holistically at the community that you're representing, especially if you're an at-large counselor.

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A district counselor can be more involved in constituent issues, and that's why it's a great balance to have at-large and district counselors.

46:17.000 --> 46:19.000
But for the most part, you can't take a pass on 90%.

46:19.000 --> 46:21.000
You need to be engaged on many of the issues.

46:21.000 --> 46:30.000
And if you're already for city council in this coming election and school committee and you haven't been attending the city council meetings or the school committee meetings, shame on you.

46:30.000 --> 46:32.000
Shame on you.

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So what do you mean by attending, though?

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Speaking up, attending or watching?

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No, you can stand up on some issues and get some free press.

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Are you kidding?

46:41.000 --> 46:42.000
You challenge these counselors.

46:42.000 --> 46:44.000
You have your say.

46:44.000 --> 46:46.000
You go to a committee meeting.

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The press covers some of those committee meetings.

46:48.000 --> 46:49.000
Get involved.

46:49.000 --> 46:50.000
Take a position.

46:50.000 --> 46:54.000
It's a free ride, but make sure it's a sensible position.

46:54.000 --> 46:55.000
Be heard.

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Be seen.

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Be introduced.

46:58.000 --> 47:00.000
Do letters to the editor.

47:00.000 --> 47:04.000
I mean, there's a lot of ways that you get your positions out there.

47:04.000 --> 47:08.000
So it's sort of preliminary, sort of like priming the scene for yourself.

47:08.000 --> 47:14.000
As David just said, you also find out what the issues are and what the counselors are doing about those issues.

47:14.000 --> 47:17.000
I mean, watch that process of how a council meeting is run.

47:17.000 --> 47:23.000
You know, 99% of perfunctory, but 99% of the time, that's where all the money's being spent.

47:23.000 --> 47:28.000
And the data is out there to be educated about where the city is spending $500 million.

47:28.000 --> 47:32.000
Our budget, the city manager's annual budget message is on the website.

47:32.000 --> 47:39.000
And I think the city's website is probably one of the better written ones and better organized ones, but it is greatly underutilized.

47:39.000 --> 47:47.000
I think it all goes back to engagement and people being artistically disengaged, socially unappreciative and unengaged,

47:47.000 --> 47:51.000
unknowledgeable, not knowledgeable enough about what there is available in this community.

47:51.000 --> 47:58.000
$500 million a year to provide local services, that's a great deal of money in the pie to divvy up.

47:58.000 --> 48:06.000
There have to be people out there who have ideas and new ideas and perhaps how to redirect some of that.

48:06.000 --> 48:14.000
But what you get, David, during the campaign, and Paul, and Mauro, what you get during the campaign all the time is when I ask a question or other people ask questions,

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and a candidate comes back and says, well, you know, when I'm in, wait a minute, wait a minute, you should know that answer right now, what you're going to do.

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Otherwise, you shouldn't be running. I mean, you should have looked at that budget, you should have eaten up that budget, you should have taken to the pot,

48:28.000 --> 48:32.000
you should have asked questions during budget review, you should know what you're talking about.

48:32.000 --> 48:39.000
If you don't want to do the groundwork, the sweat equity, the homework, then do yourself a favor, don't run.

48:39.000 --> 48:45.000
This is winnable. This is winnable. There are candidates on this city council as a conference right now that are vulnerable.

48:45.000 --> 48:53.000
If people in the school committee, very vulnerable. If you want to run and win this year, I believe people can win.

48:53.000 --> 48:59.000
I really do. But you've got to, you know, cream risers or whatever it is, you've got to want to go.

48:59.000 --> 49:02.000
Now, David mentioned that it's kind of late. Is it too late?

49:02.000 --> 49:08.000
No, it's not too late now. Absolutely not. I think that some people just underestimate what they know about the community.

49:08.000 --> 49:17.000
If you've grown up here, if you're someone who's, you know, you stay engaged by reading, I think you have a pretty good diving board to jump from.

49:17.000 --> 49:25.000
You know, in this community, we were talking about, you know, how many people actually, what's our audience out there, especially in the schools?

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Eighty-five percent of the families in this city send their kids to the public school system.

49:28.000 --> 49:34.000
How is it that we have barely enough people to come up with six warm bodies to serve on the school committee?

49:34.000 --> 49:44.000
There has to be a great untapped number of people out there who could offer new opinions, reinforced opinions, redirecting resources into the school department.

49:44.000 --> 49:49.000
But like you say, some of them might be afraid to run for, you know, this gotcha media type of perspective.

49:49.000 --> 49:57.000
I find it hard to believe watching a school committee that 90 percent of the people in this committee couldn't grasp the issues and take on that leadership role.

49:57.000 --> 50:03.000
So legally, what, I'm sorry, legally, what's required? If somebody says, I'm going to run right now, what's the bottom line?

50:03.000 --> 50:09.000
You need to be a U.S. citizen and at least 18 years of age and reside in the city of Worcester to run for office.

50:09.000 --> 50:10.000
And signatures?

50:10.000 --> 50:17.000
Committee get the signatures, you need 100 certified signatures for district counselor, 300 for school committee, 300 for city council.

50:17.000 --> 50:21.000
And to get those signature forms, those are forms that you can get from the election office?

50:21.000 --> 50:24.000
There are forms right at the election commission office on the second floor of City Hall.

50:24.000 --> 50:31.000
And I'll tell you how easy it is to get signatures. You can get 300 signatures in an afternoon or certainly within two days if you want to stand at a shopping center

50:31.000 --> 50:37.000
or go where there's a group of people, a concert or something you just want to walk around.

50:37.000 --> 50:49.000
It is not difficult to do. You could, if you get entry into high rises for the elderly and go over to a bingo, any of these things, a church organization, whatever it is, it's not a difficult thing.

50:49.000 --> 50:52.000
Very small number of registered voters have to sign.

50:52.000 --> 50:59.000
And with the legal aspects in terms of bookkeeping and fundraising, do you need to hire a CPA to be on your, you know, on your campaign committee?

50:59.000 --> 51:06.000
Anybody who does their checking account online can easily do their own financing. You can name a treasurer, a family member.

51:06.000 --> 51:15.000
I know Jordan Maxine was always your treasurer. I think it's probably a good thinking for a candidate to have their spouse or significant other be in control of the financing.

51:15.000 --> 51:20.000
It's not like trying to manage something for Norton Company. It's a matter of doing it just like your own home checking account.

51:20.000 --> 51:25.000
I just want to know where your money's being spent so if something goes up in your face, you can't say, hey, you know, I didn't know.

51:25.000 --> 51:27.000
It's got to be spent on your campaign.

51:27.000 --> 51:29.000
But it's very easy to do.

51:29.000 --> 51:30.000
I'm thinking of skill sets.

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Skill sets, yeah, go ahead.

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I'm thinking of Janice Nadal. I would love to have her on the council today.

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The lady that was grassroot, invested time in the community, was not afraid to take a stance, was courageous to take a stance, was not afraid to fight her colleagues to win them.

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Don't forget she came from Fair Share, which was a statewide organization.

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Activism.

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She was engaged as a neighborhood activist about taxes on the classification of shows.

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Not a lot of money.

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Not a lot of money.

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She lived on Cambridge Street.

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She lived on Cambridge Street.

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You know, and if somebody is unsure whether or not they should be running, once you start going around getting signatures, you'll be told whether or not you're a good candidate or not.

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People will either incentivize you and encourage you, or they'll ignore you.

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If you get ignored, then you know it might not be the right thing for you.

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But why not try?

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Yeah, we talked about, you know, the political climate and some of the changes.

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Has activism itself changed, you know, in terms of the face value of it?

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Are they out there?

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Are the activists out there face to face?

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I think there are some people who have energy, but they just get on a blog, they throw out a couple of things, and it's done.

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So it's sort of being drained in a way.

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But it's not really done.

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I think Joe Mayor O'Brien won his mayorial because of his being so active in the community.

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I think that you've got not only a good example of the mayor being an activist, but we have a chief executive of this country who was a community activist.

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How could this not be a great time for people to see that by – that our current leaders led by their example?

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Yeah, good point. Yeah.

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It changes. It has changed. I mean, dramatically it has changed.

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Electronic media can be a big negative, it could also be a big positive.

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But we've lost a lot of our interpersonal skills of talking to each other, standing on the corner, standing outside of a supermarket, standing outside of a bakery on a Sunday morning, shaking hands with people after they go to mass.

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A lot of these things have changed. And if they bring politics back to that rally on the corner type stuff and go into the church picnics on a Sunday afternoon, unfortunately that takes you away from your family.

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But you know, you press the flesh and tell people what you're all about, introducing yourself to the community.

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It's a seven day, seven night commitment that you make for a certain period of time, and you can get your name out there.

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And if people reject your message, they'll reject it as David just said, they'll reject your message.

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Some guys take the approach, and some women, they take the approach where they get their families involved so in a way it can.

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You can take your children with you, you can do a lot of things. There's a lot of fun to this. There's a lot of fun.

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Well, you know, marching in the Columbus Day Parade, the St. Patrick's Day Parade, if you have a couple bucks or you want to sponsor a band.

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There's a lot of stuff here you can do. You can show up at the concert at El Pac, you just walk by, you don't want to intrude on people.

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You can go over there on lunchtime as a common, walk around, introduce yourself to people.

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You know, you have a job, do your job. Take a half hour off for lunch. That's the stuff you can do.

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So with the last, we've got roughly less than ten minutes, you win the election.

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You decide the run, you follow the advice your esteemed panel has provided. You win. Then what?

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Sounds like the movie The Candidate. You're really at the job.

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Then you say, what the hell did I run for this for?

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Well, what happens? Is there an orientation? I know your state reps get this little orientation. I mean, what happens next?

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Well, of course, the term is a two-year term for city council. Those who are successful this November will be sworn in the first secular day in January.

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There is an orientation that we provide that helps people to understand the protocols and the parliamentary procedure.

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But again, we've had over the course of my tenure with the city 32 years, there have been people of all different ability levels, all different occupations.

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Some no occupations whatsoever except homemaker.

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Emerging, taking those people and inculcating them into the life of a city councilor and the routine of the weekly city council meetings is one that most people can handle quite easily.

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You know, the budget cycle, there are two things that city councils are really employed to do.

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One is to employ a city manager and the other one is to review and approve a budget, a balanced budget.

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Being involved in those two particular major themes, I think, is something that most people can grasp very easily.

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But David's not giving himself credit either in his office of the city clerk because they act as a tremendous asset.

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And they are the right and left hand of members of the city council and the mayor and Dr. Fried over at the school committee as a clerk of the school committee.

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So if any council, you're elected, then you go see the clerk who's impartial, always has been, works for the council even though he's under contract.

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And I mean, you do have some on the job training, so you just ask David and David will give you an opinion of this is what you have to do and this is how you file an order.

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It's not that complicated. If you have any common sense and you know the issues, you do your homework, you come in prepared, it's not difficult to do because you ran and you learned and you have people behind you.

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It's not rocket science. It really isn't rocket science. And listen to people and go to other people if you got elected and go out to the private sector and say to someone, you know, I got this problem with this budget item.

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Does this make sense to you? And someone that has some maybe financial expertise, and they look at this and they say, this is all crazy.

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So then you find a balance. Yeah. And you reach out to people, neighbors or a parent, you know, when I was chairing the school committee because I was mayor, talk to parents all the time.

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Build coalitions. Build coalitions. You can't succeed by yourself.

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So now if you win or lose, if you lose, it doesn't mean political life is over, right? You can always keep running.

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Most people will go to lose the first time out because they don't have any recognition.

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Paul, you've been involved in lots of different emerging communities in the city, the African community, the Ghanaian community.

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How do you suggest that somebody from a minority community, other than the Latino community, because we are on the verge of becoming a Latino majority community,

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how would you say that somebody from an African background would try to coalesce people to seek a seat either on the school committee or the city council? Where do they begin?

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I think there are a number of people out of the African American community that have spent a lot of time and invested a lot of their energy into the city of Worcester, such as Robert Thomas.

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I think an individual that has invested himself or herself in the community, they have that base out there. They have that coalition they can go to.

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I think just to be here for three to five years, no matter what background, and I think that you can put a successful race together tomorrow, I think will not, would not occur.

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Okay, so if you're one of those people, call City Hall. Call the Election Commission.

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That's right. What's the number of the Election Commission?

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708-799-1004. Ask for Josh Meduna. He's probably the only person that's going to pick up the phone there anyway, and Josh will be very happy to lead you into the process. Thank you very much.

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Guys, thank you all. Jordan, thank you. Paul, thank you. David, thank you very much for being here. And again, considering running, contact David at the Election Commission office, 799-1004. Talk to Josh. They'll get you started.

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Thank you, guys.