Hi everybody welcome to
a special edition of soapbox My name is Marcus Wali I'm the executive director here
at W C C A T.V.
Thirteen the people's channel we thank you for joining us the special edition of
soapbox is in commemoration of sunshine week and the title is your right to know
how to learn more about today's special topic we invite you to visit W C C A T V
dot com backslash sunshine or you can also visit the views W W Sunshine
Week dive or R G We thank you again for joining us this program is often in
conjunction with us Sunshine Week which runs through March seventeenth this event
represents
a collaborative effort of our participating panelists who you are about to me and
is supported by other local media including in City Times who is to magazine and
also power thirteen ten and we want to give special thanks to Kevin Chris and of
Worcester in the media for initiating this partnership the attention to this
program is to educate citizens about your right to access public government
information and records but dissipating panelists will also share their role and
their experience in the process of accessing such information if time allows we
will receive questions from our studio audience and to quote one of today's
panelists Bill Randall taxpayers we have the stockholders of the city and we need
to know what's going on that is the topic without further ado right to know joining
us today on this program we have Jay Worley He's the city editor of The Telegram
and Gazette. We have Bill Randall
a local citizen blogger. We have Patricia Smith she's assistant district attorney
Jaime Flores from Los said Oh it has spanned out also well known as
a media mogul in the city we have Mr Mike Benedetti He's an
employee of W C C A T V And also it was there in the media thank you for joining us
everyone you know thank you to our audience as well I'm going to welcome Jay Worley
to open the program to provide some background about Sunshine Week. Thanks Mara
Sunshine Week the initiative started in two thousand and two by the Florida Society
of Newspaper Editors and was immediately adopted by newspaper editors and
publishers Association throughout the country. The intent the aim was to educate
citizens about laws most commonly known as open records and open meetings laws
which provide access to information about how local state and federal governments
are operating what they're doing. Obviously speaking and as
a newsman our access to public information is a is
a day in day out concern but. The week is intended to call attention first of all
not only to our right and the news media to information but more important to your
right the public's right to information about your own government. And though it
might seem otherwise the biggest requestor of information through the various acts
Freedom of Information Act various The biggest requester is is you six percent of
those requests come from the media. A large number come from political
organizations and political campaigns special interest groups but the majority more
than fifty percent come from citizens themselves. I think it all boils down the
crux of the matter is you won't. You won't know open government is important until
it's important to you. The federal Freedom of Information act took effect and
generally generally four thousand nine hundred sixty six it was signed pretty
grudgingly at the time by President Lyndon Johnson it was intended to allow
citizens and companies advocacy groups in the media access to gain information
about their government based and it was based on the belief that
a democratic governments records are that are the people's records it's been
tweaked over the years including up
a major revamp in one thousand nine hundred six which created the Electronic
Freedom of Information Act to expand the law to computer records. F.R.Y.
a As we call it isn't doesn't cover all information that the government holds and
by government I mean local state and federal There are nine exemptions and
covering those exceptions include such things as privacy and national security it
also doesn't cover the courts or Congress. States including Massachusetts
subsequently passed their own open records in open meetings laws. On paper.
The law allows the news media and the public to examine records ranging from
government budgets to minutes of public meetings to primary reports it covers the
gamut but at other levels national state and local. These laws for reasons
ranging from inconvenience or simple ignorance of the law or worse criminal intent
are circumvented or ignored and if you saw
a story in last Sunday's telegram goes out about this catastrophe twenty years ago
in befall India the chemical. Explosion at the chemical plant. That led.
To
a federal law passed by Congress in this country. Where
our localities are local local governments to. Implemented to create
immediately plans to deal with such catastrophes similar catastrophes and all sites
within their jurisdiction that that could be affected. For this Sunday story
collaboration of working journalist student journalists. League of Women Voters
went to all of us apologies jurisdictions covered by those and requested that
information one third of those requests were denied. And it's guaranteed
it's part of the law it's written into the law but then this information has to be
available and updated regularly annually as
a matter of fact. That's at the federal level the local level.
And state level we deal Patricia can address this more specifically with. Attempts
to circumvent open meetings open records laws there now with the advent of the
Internet and e-mail a lot of we're hearing that
a lot of business and we discover that
a lot of businesses conducted the e-mail outside the scrutiny of you and I.
Now were told him we'll get into this later that
a commission an advisory commission appointed by the city manager is going to
conduct its its business its investigation of the homeless situation in Wester
privately that you're not going to be. You and I are not going to be invited
there's it's one of the most controversial issues and all the neighborhoods in the
West are. In the response to requests for information even though the
laws are there the guarantees are there they're not. They don't always fill the
bill they don't always work the way they're supposed to I've got. We filed
a Freedom of Information Act request for some information regarding a man
a local man has done an investigation by the state grain jury the information we
requested was returned to us. Various forms and documents we got the.
Documents back that contain the information we want but every specific thing I
don't see that's everything we wanted was redacted and specific information we had
we asked for redacted we got the forms they were contained in. Technical I know
there's some we can get resume in on this. Please don't show it no you don't you
know you don't want to see the name oh OK so this type name Oh I see OK but you can
see why you can clearly see what's what's marked off you can see that you know I'm
getting the high sign from my director but I want to just inform that we're we've
got plenty of time because the clock says nine minutes and we have
a little eleven minutes to get to the next. Topic but I turn now and
you mention in the in the history fifty percent
a system based now doesn't matter what the purpose of the request is. It has to
relate to information that's on hand if you want meetings of minutes of
a public meeting if you want budget figures. And locally and cases and
criminal investigations or criminal reports Theoretically you have access to that
and we're going to talk later about internal police investigation that's been an
area concern thank you j j give it gave us that background on Sunshine Week and we
have two of the speakers that are going to give us
a little bit of that share their experience and we're going to learn about their
role relative to this and we thought we'd side next with Bill Randall bill is
a local citizen blogger he can be read at W.W.W.
Dot was
a dot blogspot dot com So one word and Bill to turn it over to you but you know
I've noticed from reading your blog that in Iran of sunshine week you said that you
were going to ask the poor public liaison for copies of two packages of that I M G
prepared for the two commercial airlines and copies of all the reports. So the deal
T.
On the expenditure is for grant for the grant monies can you share some of the experience
out of that work I mean it's a little bit of
a test of weeks not over yet but I never thought I'd be introduced to the citizen
blog that's my first comment but I'm Kraven got it back from the airport rightly as
on film they'd be confident he'll send it back any time I ask for information I do
get it back usually I get ten days I don't have it yet I know I will get it before
I get into that let's talk about some positive things in
a city that where the way I think it should work then the city does
a great job with the with the Internet open access to government if you look at the
Treasury's website the assessors website the city clerk's website or the purchasing
department it's excellent you go right on line you can look up tons of information
so the city does a very very good job in
a lot of regards even on the boards planning boards in the Zoning Board of Appeals
You couldn't pay me enough money to be one of those any one of those people they do
an incredible job. Twice
a month or at the library but you go online and you can look up the agenda for the
next meeting they set out the evidence going to be an agenda and if you miss
a meeting you can go online you can see exactly how did and it's right it's
a great resource. Where my frustration is with the city with the airport commission
where are those good things I just talked about we can get all this information
trying to find out about the airports is very very difficult. For some reason
a couple years ago I get very frustrated at the airport and saying that if what
should be
a great asset for the city of West what we all know what's not so I just thought of
looking up some stuff and it was virtually impossible to get you know you get the
operating agreement at Massport you say it is
a master plan with. Jacobs consultant Lee Fisher There's also the alphabet soup so
I try to tie all that information together and I put together
a website and but we go daddy put a website together in
a very simple just trying to show everything that the. The airport what's going on
with the airport to that end then someone says what about the airport minutes
that's
a really good idea so I called the airport and I asked for like the wrap for the
six from January two thousand and five through July of two thousand and five
Affleck seven months worth of minutes that request was
a kind of well why do you want I'm not sure if you can give in to the Eventually I
did get the minutes and they were on there on the website. Excellent minutes with
this comprehensive it told you everything that's going on. I wanted to tell you it
was very very informative and I thought it tied everything to together on the
website kind of the background what's going on month to month and also from that
semi That minutes every month I'm going to post them and I thought to be
a good thing for the citizens for us to see it hopefully something just like the
zoning board the planning board and those other things that did stuff that never
amount but you know it's
a big difference after that but the latter half of two thousand and five and all to
two thousand and six so I could take
a test look at January February two thousand and five minutes nine pages eight
pages four of information and I look at the minutes last year I want to know people
are looking at it and it's like conversations ensued it's a very it's
a really don't read the minutes and it's it's not what it should be and that's part
of my first my main frustration is that it said we really should know what's going
on happen at the city council meeting tonight. I don't think that the board should
take
a top secret negotiations that Massport negotiations with an airline should be in
the minutes but maybe it's
a question for the D.A.'s office but that's what I thought they call an executive
session and they put a lot of stuff in executive session for us to look at
a later date as far as I can tell from the board minutes never carbon executive
session so just kind of wrap it up but if you look at the board minutes and would
only the board members which I find hard to believe never ask questions about
airlines we're talking about never ask questions about what's going on at Massport
And I think that's pretty naive and I only wish that the commission could run run
it just as well as the other ones and the saddest thing is that the next three
months we're going to make a huge decision on the future about the airport it's
a multimillion dollar ask that we're losing
a lot of money and too bad it wasn't being done as well as some of the other things
in the city is that you need two minutes can you get minutes to non-approved Yeah
well my understanding was that you could you should be able to get minutes right
away and then they would mark it as a draft coffee and that's the drawback it is
a draft copy and you it's on is
a draft the next month it gets voted but it's not just the minutes it's the content
of that it's not it's just there you can't just otherwise by the way that you can
get them. To get out I don't know and I mean I can't believe that they had don't
don't have
a current executive session to discuss some stuff that maybe is outside the scope
of the regular minutes thank you both thirty seconds or well under which they've
got three seconds over since good we're going to move on joining us also is
Patricia Smith she's assistant district attorney Patricia we thought you'd give us
some background on the role of the D.A.'s office and how you're connected with
these issues the district attorney's office it's back the opening last acts you
rethink it provisions of the open meeting it's typically States the district
attorney if. County in which the violation occurred so enforce the provisions of
this section and basically the district attorney's office investigates written
complaints of alleged open meeting with violations we also respond to open meeting
law inquiries telephone inquiries success we also conduct edges of educational
seminars throughout the fifty nine cities and towns within our jurisdiction to
educate the public and members of governmental bodies with regard to the open
meeting. Would you like
a little background of the statute itself and the opening Are itself basically the
open meeting laws statute is contained in generalized Chapter thirty nine sections
twenty three A and B.
It was enacted in one nine hundred fifty eight the statute underwent substantial
revision and took its present form in one thousand nine hundred five there have
been
a number of amendments to the open meeting law since one thousand seven hundred but
its basic format and provisions have remained basically intact and as we all know
the legislative intent of the statute is to eliminate much of the secrecy
surrounding the deliberations and decisions on which public policy is based so that
governmental officials will conduct business in an open manner subject to public
scrutiny and public debate and the basic principle of our open meeting law is
contained in the very first paragraph of Section twenty three B.
Which states that all meetings of
a governmental body shall be open to the public and any person to be permitted to
attend any meeting except as otherwise provided by this statute and that paragraph
goes on to state no quorum of
a governmental body shall meet in private for the purpose of deciding or
deliberating toward
a decision except as provided by this section however the statute does recognize
that in certain instances public business would be hampered if our discussions were
required to be open and for that reason the statute authorizes nine specific
purposes for which
a governmental body can meet in executive session which is closed to the public the
procedure for
a board to enter into executive session is specifically set forth in the statute
and must be strictly followed and basically the board must first convene in an open
session
a majority of members must vote to go into executive session by recorded roll call
vote the Poseidon officer must state the purpose of the executive session and also
the facade an officer must state before the executive session whether or not the
board will be convening after the executive session and then they are nine specific
purposes for which. Governmental body can meet in executive session. So just
just for clarification. Is there a day when you talk about
a commute to find governmental body because sometimes there's
a I think we have to know that we also need to discern the difference between say
the city manager doing something as an administrator compared to the city council
So there's
a difference right yes and governmental body is defined in the open meeting are
that's
a generalized Chapter thirty nine Section twenty three A The definitions of governmental
body is every board commission committee or
a subcommittee of any district city region or town however elected appointed or
otherwise constituted and the governing board of a local housing redevelopment or
a similar authority provided however that this definitions are not include
a town meeting last question should or could quit the so for example or go by at
the airport boredom site so that the airport commission had
a board meeting and they wanted to talk about the negotiations with an airline that
they don't want to think should be part of the monthly minute they could call it an
executive session and go into an executive session and talk about like
a negotiation with
a new line is that right what is going to be taught would that be grounds for an
executive session there at nine specified purposes for an executive session and in
exceptions or not to be implied the governmental body has to fit within one of
those nine specified exceptions and in the case of the importers that is
a governmental body that's one of the problems it was the assertion that right in
the executive session one can the public eventually see the minutes from the place
where the minutes of an executive session carrying means secret as long as the
purpose for that executive session exists but no longer under the purpose of the
statute so the governmental bodies periodically review their executive session
minutes and determine when they can be released they should be released when the
purpose for that no longer exists so for example to say they were in discussions
with an airline and either one of the executive session Another those discussions
over the over would be able to see them in. The minutes from the executive session
because that purpose would be over I guess again it's within the discretion of the
governmental body as to when that purpose itself very. Purpose that exist continues
to exist you know is generally within the discretion of the board right and we have
kids about ten seconds left in this section so I want to move but that but also
that means we have a right to ask when they're going to we have
a right to ask when they're going to decide it's available Do we have
a right to monitor it generally the board's periodic or the view their exact
expression and determine if they can now be publicly. Is there are checks and
balance to that is there
a point where you can say OK that's enough we need to know there's no space there
isn't hearing OK after that OK we're going to move on Thank you Patricia we're
going to move on to the three topics and this is fun isn't just cool.
What are your rights to know. This is the discussion sort of an at large question
we want to throw out and offer to the panel and we're going to have Jaime start
this section off and we could talk for about three minutes and then the remaining
time of this action which will be about eight to ten minutes or so will we can all
discuss this panel form so Jaime you have from him as
a spin spin Oh you're involved with media C.C.A.
For years and years on the radio the B C U W Now you have a new show on T.V.
Three what can you share some of those you know very volatile community can you
share some of your perspective on this what what do you what do you see that we as
citizens have
a right to with regard to access to government records business meetings do you
have any experience so open I mean to begin with this in the Constitution so you
take it from there. But you know going back to
a colleague of the telegram that they're going to
a few years ago with the police request for those that have no role for
a while and. The nine hundred seventy S.
The Latino community complained against the police for L.H.
Probably would retaliate and so we went to City Hall because at that time we were
living in all of it you know to approach the process was so. They see
this is where the Human Rights Commission should tackle this issue so they did so
they requested those records from the police department and why did you guys the
answer was No So you went back so. It would mean no
so we took him in court again and the Course says that police had to release the
records so what happened they would lose the records excitedly then those they
cross they formation that they even. Want to do that we know. So we had to go back
in core I mean to me to maybe also ashore it took us like four years five years for
this case and the question was you know who's paying for all of this how much money
you wasting and by don't I mean this is the taxpayer money for something that
should be down in the first place we no question as. Their right to know
in these cases perfectly for the Latino community. Can be confused sometimes for
many reasons and number one their language barrier. Number two their lack of
knowledge in number three. It had happened I don't know I know where that have
happened around here but in the sections of the country people that asked for these
documents or requests of this type of information have been intimidated. For
a way to stop and have you know where the U.S.
Can do this and now I guess nowadays when we're going to we have
a different ballgame due to their umbrella national security and after nine eleven
. Changed three hundred sixty degrees is like Weren't you
a terrorist or you know I'm wondering if you to morrow you want to require some of
these documents and they're going to ask you for proof for your citizenship so this
is so many things that have happened in my personal view. Some of these.
The Freedom of Information Act some of those things have to be change of modified
somehow because of the way that they are. This is not working. Theory
So thank you Jaime for that for now just because right now part of the purpose of
this program is to make sure our viewers of this understand that this is not just
a media issue citizen issue you have a right to know you have
a right to access on this do you need to be a journalist Carl Carl. City are up on
a car any government body up just to get information and I'm just tossing out as
a question I know it already you just chime in on anything anything that you need
to relative to this issue. No you don't but do you need to know how to play the
game you know where to go or what to approach you're one of the presidents because
if you don't you get lost in the shuffle period and you're going to go nowhere and
the other thing is you know if you do and you do it as
a single individual you gotta have some money because it's going to cost you
they're going to drag
a case as they say and then thousand two thousand two thousand dollars four
thousand out of there you're going to have to you know getting broken and you find
out this is you know what and what it takes you to
a time when I think that happens in
a lot of cases so you know you want your to you mention this retribution that
you're going to be afraid of this is
a temptation factor. And now with the rise there's even more reason maybe to be
intimidated especially if you're an immigrant you're going to consider whether or
not they're going to jeopardize your standing. For the background on that is fire
is actually going to run a play
a game one of the steps. Do you guys know anything special that we need to know is
that this is like what are the steps that we need to take I think going into
whatever agency whatever government you know you're seeking information from you
know ahead of time what your rights are might my advice personal experience is not
to try to do it over the telephone there are any number of ways to inconvenience
you or to delay that it's going in person and asking for the set of documents that
. You need to know what you're seeking. And preferably where it's housed in
you know in what city agency what department and to deal with them from there be
prepared to. Upon being shuffled around or delayed be prepared to say or to
file a Freedom of Information. Request and it's
a very simple process the details of which were there I think you've set up an anon
line so we can click in the Sunday story we had there's
a detail there on how to compile your own. It's
just
a matter of moral being prepared of knowing exactly what you want if you going in
asking for I want all the things that pertain to the airport in the last five years
. Understandably it's going to be it's going to take some time now but
specifically I want information about your lines that him expressed interest in
landing they're using it to somebody and if you buy narrowing it down by making you
know a more reasonable request you've got
a better access and then being willing to take that step to challenge any refusal
you get I think I find it very easy to get information to be honest I just I don't
but the Freedom of Information Act again the city has
a ton of information right on the Internet just the city quote That's
a great job so you go into the city council minutes and you go to the airport
section and open attachments read up. Even on
a city website this is tons of information my problem has been. That there is no
information there was nothing you could so Freedom of Information request you could
ask. And there's nothing there I mean there's just that's the problem that the
minutes I was being kept the way they should be that's. Just the bad
information that's what that's been my main thing and then this should be exactly
again if they're going to claim that this top secret negotiating to go into an
executive session and document in the minutes and say I want an executive session
for
a half hour but you know it doesn't happen it's just like I think they get together
when we don't know we don't know what they talk to talk about up. Company coming
and going to photoshop and shoot and say well that's you know that is really in the
news you know what I want time of kind of uncomfortable and it wasn't like oh
that's not the same as me but when you ask the police department you worried about
going to the police department falling around not worried about any from the
airport commission follow me around but it was I wasn't welcome then I knew I
wasn't welcome as I was like and I'm not I don't need this and I shouldn't have
thought I should be able to go on when I say that if I miss
a planning board I was only Board of Appeals meaning I go and I know exactly what
happened I say it's if you haven't done it I mean you. We should look at the
minutes of those acts on. That one if I and I think I was there I don't think I
want to there be any I get the impression that might not be I should go though they
answered but it's right and wondered really since you did go to did you check the
minutes of corresponding with you know me so I don't know about three hundred fifty
I think it is I don't think it before it's
a good point to I didn't do it but I know this feeling of you know not being
satisfied with the information or fear of retribution is not necessary because. For
the one time experience you know that you have put two and said it wasn't really
it's like the third rail of politics for some reason this. Is my you know my
approach what. We feel is the basic. Reason for the.
Visit comes this guy he's
a pain he's going to ask you feel like you're not welcome you're intimidated when
he was behind all that I mean it's just I mean people don't want to it's not like
none of us so that point is what we do that's important and that's. Because so many
girls to be honest with Mr Right is right he goes I think I'm sure although I don't
know you know go check you know what the door and you know it's again for the
hundredth time he watches on the Zoning Board of Appeals in Atlanta where they do
a great job and why they do a great job and I don't but I think it goes down to
a lot it goes down to egos and you know what are you going to point to like you
know do the right you can go outside I should probably say to viewers watching this
because I'm sure you know the city is going to watch to see administrators go watch
this and they were not. Intended to be attacking anybody you know you have
U.S.
Citizens expressing some frustrations and also just to get their point of information
out there everybody so we just need people to learn about this. The minute record
like I want to chime in to all of us and Western the media none of us are
professional journalists we're all volunteers and usually when we do an Information
request which we do pretty often we get back what we want sometimes we get the
runaround and I used. I have this impression that maybe the city was giving us the
run around because they thought we're just
a bunch of those is talking to James about this team he gets the run around
sometimes and I know and that said I mean I think we all focused on where we have
a problem making information requests we've got
a lot of information too with really no problem so I would totally urge anybody to
make an Information request I mean I think the chances are really good that you're
going to get. Without any hassles I tried to make the point when I first started
talking about sunshine we know it's not always scapegoating or are trying to hide
information some ulterior motive that's bad and very often it's just
a matter of inconvenience or a clerk responsible for that job also have
a dozen other things to do and. We have only sort of some walks and you know sort
of response so I think sometimes you take the approach of
a journalist I need it's my right and again be prepared to
take that next that that following step and challenge you know to the Freedom of
Information Act I know we experience some of them come tax credit group you know to
set up systems places all over the city for people to test they want to come in
they want to do it now we want to know and it's like OK we only have like two
interns trying to help you with your taxes if there's
a line of thirty people so you're right that sometimes it is that it's just.
Overwhelmed
a lot of times one find any final comments before I go to the next topic and I just
would like to have which city I mean this is hope for you is taken I suppose if.
Commonsense is something that has to be proved it's not the negative approach
because bottom line is who are disempowered to moralise you and to more of
a person might be don't hear you need to know you right you know want to hold on to
a lot of turn around and then you. Face and it's
a defense for everybody to know your right to know and how to go about it
in simple and honest something government is one thing we do start hiding things
and then the sheets something is fishy for whatever reason and because we have the
right to know all of them we should pursue it but just for the sake before we go to
the next topic very quickly before we. Do for those Per Person who do not have
access to wings on the Internet and stuff you mention the requests for freedom of
information if you happen to go into
a government agency government body and you asked for something you're not happy
and you say you know I'm going to file
a Freedom of Information What do you get that from you it's
a very simple form that. I provide the information to anyone that wants to call it
that wants to use it OK you can you can make it yourself and it just explains what
you're looking for the date time that sort of thing in your name the agency you're
dealing with it's fairly simple preserves the letter Yeah it's a letter just
a letter and it goes to the agency requesting from directly to OK and that's your
record was claiming that right OK. And that's when we thought we'd this we've
explored in the context of sunshine week the city managers were stores formlessness
task force this is really recently it seems to be gaining input as an important
issue it's been raised
a number of times in. Media outlets. Let's just open up and say Right right is this
gain so much attention and why is this such an important issue to discuss. Until
the recent budget problems came to light. In the city.
I don't think there's any more divisive issue in this city than I mean it's it's
not the issue of homelessness it's what do we do with homeless people how do we
shelter them and as everyone is aware that various neighborhoods of Wester some
more than others have objected and and in ways that been very vocal in their
opposition to that at the same time the the the largest facility in town the
PEP shelter on Main Street. Has for
a long time has presented something of
a problem for residents of the main south area of that area and understandably have
. A right to to seek that dispersal of. Of those clients.
Social service agencies have tried to locate facilities and my neighborhood
square with it's met with a
a similar program for. For women with with sorority problems.
Better that I mean it's extremely divisive the city manager
a year ago said I'm going to appoint
a he said US and commission to advise me on that and he said he would and now it's
that commission shortly he just did
a year later. And I'm not. Casting blame there.
It just took
a long time I guess. And then with that he announced that because it's advisory I
think the sessions will be closed and the city solicitor David Moore provided an
opinion citing a case involving
a. School school personnel that are some school committee that
they don't have to it was advisory in nature and therefore they don't have to want
to be open. Well here you've got this issue and some say a panel or
a commission hers that it waited more heavily in favor of. The social service
agencies and that the attempts to disperse this population provide housing. And
so if you've already got grounds for people to be. In the opponents to be upset and
for whatever your your thinking is on the issue. I think you have
a right to know and want to be involved in that process as they gather information
now maybe Patricia will give us some. Labor lives no.
School huge Why should government body grow yes. I was
a. Person. Basically I'd like to tell you about the specific
case that is that issue which is Connelly versus school committee of Hanover this
is in one thousand nine hundred one supreme judicial case from the Supreme Judicial
Court of Massachusetts which held that
a high school principal selection committee which
a town superintendent of schools appointed to assist him in nominating candidates
for the position of high school principal was not
a governmental body within the meaning of the open meeting law where it was not
constituted or regulated by statute or by law and where was informally appointed to
assist the superintendent in carrying out
a task that the legislator legislature permitted him to perform in his sole
discretion free from scrutiny under the open meeting law and there are just some
provisions of this specific case which I have here with me today that shed
a little bit of light on this the open meeting law applies only to governmental
bodies the legislature has defined governmental body as we stated before as every
Board Commission
a committee or subcommittee of any district city region or town however elected
appointed or otherwise constituted with regard to this definition the case states
the key inquiry in this case is whether the selection committee is
a committee of the town in this case of Hanover and for these reasons the Supreme
Judicial Court concluded that it was not for us the selection committee in that
case was not created pursuant to any statute or by law it was appointed informally
by the superintendent says this factor on loan it sets the selection committee
apart from other entities considered to be governmental bodies under the open
meetings law almost all of which are creatures of statute ordinance or by law case
also states of Special see. Nikken says the fact the superintendent because he is
clearly not
a governmental body could by himself have accomplished this task entirely free from
the requirements of the open meeting law was his independent and exclusive
statutory responsibility and the selection committee was established merely to
assist him in carrying out his responsibility so these are some of the provisions
of the Connally case which have been discussed with regard to this matter. The one
task force common. About of with replies the sunshine week or the open reading
a lot but I was on
a task force for the pilot and that's where we get everybody out of school by the
context but. We're going to three years ago we can with these great recommendations
and help the university partnership was formed in someone's hide and I don't know
about that I don't know exactly what. I'm more concerned about the task force that
they're going to do not
a pilot task force I wish they could and that example we convened
a task force that we had because we had some great recommendations that never got
never got implemented I was really wish that we reconvene the task force roll out
the recommendations we came up with and see you know what we have done what we have
and we didn't do very through the recommendations and the only things when I think
the hardest task force it's like done this before and I say again I hope this is
somebody that we're going to reconvene what we did before and but as not to do it
have been done before I looked at
a governor's speech we were in for President McGovern It was
a you could play it again you know the next election and everything he wants this
part of the task force was to make one of you know accidents like this we should
reconvene the task force and look at our recommendations it's easy time she's or
may not need to start asking to register used to redefine governmental body to be
a little more broad Rapson. Question before I was in
a jury wants to say something I could tell you if you were growing up you know.
That the sitting. President by allowing city employees to subpoena boards of
commissions because now you see she was the be more of
a government bribery infiltrating on these boards of commission is that going to
going to cause some problems in the future I mean I think it's
a great idea to be honest I think there's
a city employees. Obviously I don't think. I mean they might be some conflicts I
don't know that they are pox employee should be on
a pox commission but I think we want people that. I just don't see how that could
possibly be a bad thing a city where he's been
a state employee that can't magically
a bad thing and then deciding that you mentioned which was sure it was not the
superintendent he would be considered as he. Is appealing to these lawsuits have to
say we're going to tell you it's not
a governmental body appointed this particular committee to assist him and with him
duties that where he has discretion. I think you are the airport commission should
let one member pee outside the city be on the board it is
a regional airport I don't live in
a city that's what I mean like I mean I just briefly want to say that we've got in
the home business situation and life
a social worker that for many years living with them and this is
a political issue. In Actually I think that City Hall or the
see the administration by closing the place is doing themselves
a favor because all those little pressure right to close their place and throw away
of these of these people is called. They cost would be.
Yes I will reach as far as emergency rooms and everything else if these people
doesn't have a place to roll Now why is that they don't have
a place to go because we don't have. Many go back we have in your community
the holidays but whatever you want to call it I've seen many of those come and go
with the same ideas do it through US Oh and by you know we're going to finish with
the homeless situation in the city I mean here in the for the city fifteen years
and what have been not doing we still play in this thing work. We're really bugs
the hell out of me and we put it in these boards and these commissions they see
people that have been in their previous commissions I mean they normally. Be in
a solution of things through
a program problem so I don't I don't see him you know I don't see these commute is
going nowhere this is
a real commitment for this city that we're going to something regarding the only
solution to this is. Affordable housing and the visuals provide programs that
includes mental health so if sense of use and you name it that's the only way it
was whatever they say in my book is born with Mike we were both were actually
running around this time but I'll give you thirty seconds I just want to say I hope
that some or most people including in those commissions because I wanted to I
wanted to just point out one reason why this city might want to keep my one
transparency my want to open up some of these meetings where they do is because
I think that what you sometimes see as the C.E.O.
Of
a town Town Planning Board has been meeting they're kind of trying to keep the public
out what's going on then they announce some big decision and then the next meeting
the planning board there's one hundred angry people they're all making speeches are
people picketing outside this is like the worst use of the time of the playing
board it's not
a very efficient time of use of the time that people concerns either it's much
better to keep people included the whole way I think we've seen this with the
funding of the CIA that nobody has any idea what's going on with the pony and the
C.C.A.
And then at the you know public safety and Transportation Committee subcommittee
hearing you suddenly got one hundred fifty people who are angry or anxious who are
making long speeches and some cutting many members are just sort of sitting there
like what are we supposed to do and everybody who is there with concerns they're
not really getting their concerns answered and that maybe if I think more of
something like this is going to happen the homeless the homeless come through
they're going to announce their recommendations and the next meeting with me about
this is that me two hundred people is if you will pick
a. Whatever they recommendation let's go doesn't die and while waiting. We're going
to move on to the next. Issue with the topic is public records. In particular
there's been
a big story lately about the coming gun. Bits and pieces here but the
target is
a good fight to retain complete records against the police can you share some
school you share some highlights of this is is there
a success story in this horrible government or not enough you know we don't it's
not unique to
a step ahead maybe it is I don't let's all move. Success
I mean. That's
a loaded term. One thousand nine hundred nine reporter from the T.N.G.
John Monahan got wind of
a complaint. It was to residents named Shawn Wilder he and
a friend were. Downtown. Walking and I think coming back from the bars
I recall. They had matched have supposedly matched
the description of a two suspects in
a criminal case. They were approached by the first officers on the scene
thrown to the ground the one young man while her had. Just recovered from
a severe neck injury and was injured even more seriously with this.
The his account to Monaghan prompted
a look by our paper into the situation and from there
a three year legal battle. That first resulted in the first step was
a decision we requested the. Internal Affairs investigation report on that. On
that arrest and what happened we were refused. We went to the city solicitor still
then and now David Moore we were it was issued that internal affairs records are
private. We went to district court Superior Court here. We were the
case was the City side was upheld we appealed to the appellate court and finally
one. That was challenged by the city. And ultimately it
went to the S J C And in two thousand and three three and
a half years later. Our right to that information. Was
given and we finally got the report as we were looking for one story that
essentially corroborated what Sean Wilder had to say that pointed out some
embarrassing details to the police department but not necessarily criminal
not worth the tens of thousands of dollars that it cost us the aggravation the
whatever I mean it was it was
a long battle and caused. Animosity with this
between the newspaper in the city and as most specifically the police department
affecting in some ways our ability to cover what was happening. It's
it's done with now I mean as I said That story was finally written and there were
countless stories written about the legal battle but the one story you were after
and what could have been written three and
a half years ago if people are just opened up was. It was finally in the summer of
two thousand and three. Did we when it's hard for us to get internal affairs
reports now it's harder it's difficult. Now you watch across the T.G.
Is it also cross for the city to hold that back. Because I have
a tough time right now I want to be easier and cheaper just to say here it is I
mean it must must must cost some as this one turns out everything costs and
a whole lot cheaper for them. You've got to use lies in the services of your
existing city solicitor's office and I I really can't remember when they retired
retained private counsel for going on but it took
a lot of manpower and time on their part it cost them something and. That's what it
was
a waste of money is there any kind of recourse or Patricia if you can chime in with
I mean it's harder now to get information it starts just as hard for them to get
information it could be anything of the in the media folks have had some more
situations or Mike we're going to but is there any recourse to that I mean is
really what we can do is. That's something that would be deferred to the secretary
of state's office the supervisor records. Going to the appropriate agency and
defacing to handle that and to that question who you might be if you want to share
some of these great was on me we've had we have an outstanding public records
request right now out of was during the media that comes exactly out of that
Supreme Judicial Court case so within the past year and Wister there's been some
concern with police behavior I mean I think it's really just
a couple of bad apples but you had one policeman who is like probably who was
exposed when he caught lewdly exposing himself or obscene lives exposing himself to
poison one hundred farms you had one officer who was arrested for dealing drugs and
so there's
a little concern about what the heck is going on with your police department right
now and so knowing that the Supreme Judicial Court had said that at least some of
these citizen complaint records are public information and and knowing that there
was the police department has announced that they've moved it all over to
additional database we said OK let's file
a records request and find out what we can find out what will they tell us so we
sent them
a records request we said you know we're not lawyers we know that the Supreme
Judicial Court has said that some of the stuff we can have some of it we can't.
Send us send us whatever you can send us send us whatever you think you know we
didn't set any particular bar just send us something and that's something from
these records and they wrote back saying we can't send you anything which again is
not an annoyance seem like completely at odds with the supreme judicial court and
sat so the recourse that we then took is we went to the secretary of the common
wall and we said we kind of feel like we're being stonewalled here and he has
a sense of pointed
a attorney to look into this situation and we're just kind of waiting to find out
what's going on. So that's where we are right now and I think you know when you
when you think about it I mean you know it's this is an institution in the Pentagon
who looked into them people who were the group with money would say No Yeah thanks
it's not the people. And against the police department I notice that due to
a lot of money now imagine. Yourself or I as
a single individuals trying to tackle something ladies. Just the way they're used
and what I'm I'm going to go with these you don't have any what is the matter WHAT
DO WE NEED the road to where you want to go in the three years three of us' whether
it was an individual No no I know and I think that if the if the the attorney
appointed by the SEC or the Commonwealth doesn't get anywhere for in the media we
don't I mean we don't have any money as an organization I don't know what we would
do in that situation was thinking they could get some. Sunshine
a week I think my foot just the one of the problems I'm having was with the public
records requests they can give us
a question more for yourself how do we. How do we ensure that want to avoid
a meets that they discuss everything at the board meeting on the minutes and
they're not meeting and private anyone is wanted to present to discuss things
because I don't want to use that I find it hard to believe that the I think
commission is
a smart guys I think they know exactly what we're talking to I think they know
what's going on how do we how do you how do you mind that how do we of course that
they meet as
a group and I discuss that and they don't you know I mean it just seems like when I
do that you've got to keep in mind. There are areas and delicate business
negotiations say they were they had
a carrier had expressed interest I mean you don't want to blow your cover there's
a there's a reason there's a good reason to keep stuff private for
a while but that's when they should call an exam if you're that's when they should
call an executive session I don't want to correct. And I should point out the
thing about police records you have to keep it's getting better I mean that's still
a very delicate topic internal investigations but yeah it is better I mean I think
you've got
a more open and. Receptive police chief and certainly that is counterfeiters
predecessor's and definite progress there but I think more of them. You know
specific laws to what we've got is good I think now it's for all of us public
media all citizen bloggers to be more demanding of those that. Are
in positions of authority and and you know try to push that movement for more
openness more transparency in government secrecy because nine eleven and one agency
cooperated with another provided that information they should have we might have
avoided the Unabomber that horrible case two decades three decades ago
wasn't solved until they finally put out in the media you know the script that
scribbling meanderings of the of the suspect until they finally went the publicity
route went open and then his brother saw that. The stuff recognized that the
symptoms and turned him in the snipers and were arrested in Washington they finally
so scared about that in public you know sentiment was at
a height everybody was nervous they finally put out the one drawing they had of the
the guy and he was arrested who said what they were more than agree that some of
the Goshen for the airlines should be secret I think I emphasize again that's when
I caught executive session with an avoidable and if I was like a top at
a board minutes that hasn't been an executive session I could be
a stand to be corrected but I know that they have so. How do you how do we make
sure that these guys that the boards you can discuss and stuff as
a group. And the invoice I think one thing is you know one thing that's changed in
the last twenty years that you have the Internet now so that you can pose an even
posting all week about like this seems very fishy to me I can't believe that it's
actually working out this way and you know people are seeing that and I mean
internet you point out the city's website which is wonderful and then does open up
. Many doors but then in the same true she knows these cases when
selectman conducted business my my e-mail points are accessible. Because it's
not for sale it's by a quorum of members of
a governmental body which relate to public business within their jurisdiction
violate the open meeting and we have had several cases of violations of the open
meeting in our e-mail discussions by
a quorum of members of boards so what I am right saying at the predicative
Obviously this would be
a public records request to say all the emails from the airport leaders on the list
well like I said he said Well number one governmental bodies should not be
discussing how the business by e-mails
a quorum of members separate board should not be that would be. In an instance of
a governmental body discussing public business would be
a violation of the open meeting. Well we're just about out of time I just want to
thank all the panelists for joining us we'll have to do this again some time. If
not sooner at least for the next Sunshine Week definitely it was
a lot of work with thank you all for working on this again thanks to Kevin percent
because I want to also acknowledge that US We do have
a city council here today with the audience Gary rose and. A number of
distinguished members here joining us as well in the audience and I can't name any
further because I don't want to leave somebody all of the. People out so thank you
for joining us. Sunshine for such.
As ours. The people stand up for auction and remember the right to know.