1 00:00:21,90 --> 00:00:23,18 Hi everybody welcome to 2 00:00:23,19 --> 00:00:28,84 a special edition of soapbox My name is Marcus Wali I'm the executive director here 3 00:00:28,85 --> 00:00:30,44 at W C C A T.V. 4 00:00:30,45 --> 00:00:35,25 Thirteen the people's channel we thank you for joining us the special edition of 5 00:00:35,26 --> 00:00:41,17 soapbox is in commemoration of sunshine week and the title is your right to know 6 00:00:41,37 --> 00:00:46,28 how to learn more about today's special topic we invite you to visit W C C A T V 7 00:00:46,29 --> 00:00:53,21 dot com backslash sunshine or you can also visit the views W W Sunshine 8 00:00:53,22 --> 00:00:58,20 Week dive or R G We thank you again for joining us this program is often in 9 00:00:58,21 --> 00:01:03,67 conjunction with us Sunshine Week which runs through March seventeenth this event 10 00:01:03,68 --> 00:01:04,11 represents 11 00:01:04,12 --> 00:01:08,46 a collaborative effort of our participating panelists who you are about to me and 12 00:01:08,47 --> 00:01:14,40 is supported by other local media including in City Times who is to magazine and 13 00:01:14,41 --> 00:01:20,44 also power thirteen ten and we want to give special thanks to Kevin Chris and of 14 00:01:20,45 --> 00:01:24,79 Worcester in the media for initiating this partnership the attention to this 15 00:01:24,80 --> 00:01:29,31 program is to educate citizens about your right to access public government 16 00:01:29,32 --> 00:01:33,65 information and records but dissipating panelists will also share their role and 17 00:01:33,66 --> 00:01:38,79 their experience in the process of accessing such information if time allows we 18 00:01:38,80 --> 00:01:42,50 will receive questions from our studio audience and to quote one of today's 19 00:01:42,51 --> 00:01:47,45 panelists Bill Randall taxpayers we have the stockholders of the city and we need 20 00:01:47,46 --> 00:01:53,53 to know what's going on that is the topic without further ado right to know joining 21 00:01:53,54 --> 00:01:59,45 us today on this program we have Jay Worley He's the city editor of The Telegram 22 00:01:59,46 --> 00:02:02,66 and Gazette. We have Bill Randall 23 00:02:02,70 --> 00:02:09,45 a local citizen blogger. We have Patricia Smith she's assistant district attorney 24 00:02:11,34 --> 00:02:16,43 Jaime Flores from Los said Oh it has spanned out also well known as 25 00:02:16,44 --> 00:02:23,13 a media mogul in the city we have Mr Mike Benedetti He's an 26 00:02:23,14 --> 00:02:28,64 employee of W C C A T V And also it was there in the media thank you for joining us 27 00:02:28,65 --> 00:02:33,94 everyone you know thank you to our audience as well I'm going to welcome Jay Worley 28 00:02:34,46 --> 00:02:39,41 to open the program to provide some background about Sunshine Week. Thanks Mara 29 00:02:40,15 --> 00:02:45,45 Sunshine Week the initiative started in two thousand and two by the Florida Society 30 00:02:45,46 --> 00:02:50,23 of Newspaper Editors and was immediately adopted by newspaper editors and 31 00:02:50,24 --> 00:02:56,85 publishers Association throughout the country. The intent the aim was to educate 32 00:02:56,93 --> 00:03:02,08 citizens about laws most commonly known as open records and open meetings laws 33 00:03:02,45 --> 00:03:06,74 which provide access to information about how local state and federal governments 34 00:03:07,12 --> 00:03:12,82 are operating what they're doing. Obviously speaking and as 35 00:03:12,83 --> 00:03:15,90 a newsman our access to public information is a is 36 00:03:15,91 --> 00:03:22,54 a day in day out concern but. The week is intended to call attention first of all 37 00:03:22,59 --> 00:03:27,08 not only to our right and the news media to information but more important to your 38 00:03:27,09 --> 00:03:32,38 right the public's right to information about your own government. And though it 39 00:03:32,39 --> 00:03:39,09 might seem otherwise the biggest requestor of information through the various acts 40 00:03:39,10 --> 00:03:45,79 Freedom of Information Act various The biggest requester is is you six percent of 41 00:03:45,80 --> 00:03:50,39 those requests come from the media. A large number come from political 42 00:03:50,40 --> 00:03:56,08 organizations and political campaigns special interest groups but the majority more 43 00:03:56,09 --> 00:04:01,53 than fifty percent come from citizens themselves. I think it all boils down the 44 00:04:01,54 --> 00:04:07,64 crux of the matter is you won't. You won't know open government is important until 45 00:04:07,65 --> 00:04:13,10 it's important to you. The federal Freedom of Information act took effect and 46 00:04:13,11 --> 00:04:16,63 generally generally four thousand nine hundred sixty six it was signed pretty 47 00:04:16,64 --> 00:04:21,92 grudgingly at the time by President Lyndon Johnson it was intended to allow 48 00:04:21,93 --> 00:04:26,98 citizens and companies advocacy groups in the media access to gain information 49 00:04:26,99 --> 00:04:29,55 about their government based and it was based on the belief that 50 00:04:29,56 --> 00:04:34,06 a democratic governments records are that are the people's records it's been 51 00:04:34,07 --> 00:04:35,75 tweaked over the years including up 52 00:04:35,79 --> 00:04:40,58 a major revamp in one thousand nine hundred six which created the Electronic 53 00:04:40,59 --> 00:04:46,49 Freedom of Information Act to expand the law to computer records. F.R.Y. 54 00:04:46,53 --> 00:04:52,52 a As we call it isn't doesn't cover all information that the government holds and 55 00:04:52,59 --> 00:04:58,93 by government I mean local state and federal There are nine exemptions and 56 00:04:59,47 --> 00:05:04,52 covering those exceptions include such things as privacy and national security it 57 00:05:04,53 --> 00:05:11,10 also doesn't cover the courts or Congress. States including Massachusetts 58 00:05:11,34 --> 00:05:17,34 subsequently passed their own open records in open meetings laws. On paper. 59 00:05:19,15 --> 00:05:23,23 The law allows the news media and the public to examine records ranging from 60 00:05:23,52 --> 00:05:28,47 government budgets to minutes of public meetings to primary reports it covers the 61 00:05:28,48 --> 00:05:35,32 gamut but at other levels national state and local. These laws for reasons 62 00:05:35,33 --> 00:05:41,51 ranging from inconvenience or simple ignorance of the law or worse criminal intent 63 00:05:41,86 --> 00:05:45,02 are circumvented or ignored and if you saw 64 00:05:45,03 --> 00:05:49,82 a story in last Sunday's telegram goes out about this catastrophe twenty years ago 65 00:05:49,83 --> 00:05:56,69 in befall India the chemical. Explosion at the chemical plant. That led. 66 00:05:57,81 --> 00:05:58,08 To 67 00:05:58,09 --> 00:06:05,43 a federal law passed by Congress in this country. Where 68 00:06:05,44 --> 00:06:11,71 our localities are local local governments to. Implemented to create 69 00:06:11,75 --> 00:06:17,87 immediately plans to deal with such catastrophes similar catastrophes and all sites 70 00:06:17,93 --> 00:06:23,59 within their jurisdiction that that could be affected. For this Sunday story 71 00:06:24,37 --> 00:06:29,95 collaboration of working journalist student journalists. League of Women Voters 72 00:06:30,30 --> 00:06:35,82 went to all of us apologies jurisdictions covered by those and requested that 73 00:06:35,83 --> 00:06:42,45 information one third of those requests were denied. And it's guaranteed 74 00:06:43,05 --> 00:06:47,34 it's part of the law it's written into the law but then this information has to be 75 00:06:47,35 --> 00:06:50,87 available and updated regularly annually as 76 00:06:50,88 --> 00:06:56,61 a matter of fact. That's at the federal level the local level. 77 00:06:57,93 --> 00:07:03,70 And state level we deal Patricia can address this more specifically with. Attempts 78 00:07:03,71 --> 00:07:09,34 to circumvent open meetings open records laws there now with the advent of the 79 00:07:09,35 --> 00:07:12,67 Internet and e-mail a lot of we're hearing that 80 00:07:12,68 --> 00:07:14,44 a lot of business and we discover that 81 00:07:14,45 --> 00:07:19,88 a lot of businesses conducted the e-mail outside the scrutiny of you and I. 82 00:07:21,21 --> 00:07:23,65 Now were told him we'll get into this later that 83 00:07:24,31 --> 00:07:29,78 a commission an advisory commission appointed by the city manager is going to 84 00:07:29,79 --> 00:07:34,91 conduct its its business its investigation of the homeless situation in Wester 85 00:07:35,35 --> 00:07:39,51 privately that you're not going to be. You and I are not going to be invited 86 00:07:39,52 --> 00:07:43,74 there's it's one of the most controversial issues and all the neighborhoods in the 87 00:07:43,75 --> 00:07:50,53 West are. In the response to requests for information even though the 88 00:07:50,65 --> 00:07:55,71 laws are there the guarantees are there they're not. They don't always fill the 89 00:07:55,72 --> 00:08:01,49 bill they don't always work the way they're supposed to I've got. We filed 90 00:08:01,50 --> 00:08:06,84 a Freedom of Information Act request for some information regarding a man 91 00:08:06,85 --> 00:08:13,42 a local man has done an investigation by the state grain jury the information we 92 00:08:13,43 --> 00:08:19,78 requested was returned to us. Various forms and documents we got the. 93 00:08:21,71 --> 00:08:25,92 Documents back that contain the information we want but every specific thing I 94 00:08:25,93 --> 00:08:30,04 don't see that's everything we wanted was redacted and specific information we had 95 00:08:30,17 --> 00:08:36,33 we asked for redacted we got the forms they were contained in. Technical I know 96 00:08:36,34 --> 00:08:41,64 there's some we can get resume in on this. Please don't show it no you don't you 97 00:08:41,65 --> 00:08:48,04 know you don't want to see the name oh OK so this type name Oh I see OK but you can 98 00:08:48,05 --> 00:08:53,61 see why you can clearly see what's what's marked off you can see that you know I'm 99 00:08:53,62 --> 00:08:57,94 getting the high sign from my director but I want to just inform that we're we've 100 00:08:58,01 --> 00:09:00,95 got plenty of time because the clock says nine minutes and we have 101 00:09:00,96 --> 00:09:07,03 a little eleven minutes to get to the next. Topic but I turn now and 102 00:09:07,44 --> 00:09:10,85 you mention in the in the history fifty percent 103 00:09:10,86 --> 00:09:15,89 a system based now doesn't matter what the purpose of the request is. It has to 104 00:09:15,90 --> 00:09:20,63 relate to information that's on hand if you want meetings of minutes of 105 00:09:20,64 --> 00:09:27,63 a public meeting if you want budget figures. And locally and cases and 106 00:09:28,11 --> 00:09:33,27 criminal investigations or criminal reports Theoretically you have access to that 107 00:09:33,28 --> 00:09:37,19 and we're going to talk later about internal police investigation that's been an 108 00:09:37,20 --> 00:09:42,63 area concern thank you j j give it gave us that background on Sunshine Week and we 109 00:09:42,64 --> 00:09:44,45 have two of the speakers that are going to give us 110 00:09:44,65 --> 00:09:47,90 a little bit of that share their experience and we're going to learn about their 111 00:09:47,91 --> 00:09:52,73 role relative to this and we thought we'd side next with Bill Randall bill is 112 00:09:52,74 --> 00:09:57,20 a local citizen blogger he can be read at W.W.W. 113 00:09:57,33 --> 00:09:58,13 Dot was 114 00:09:58,66 --> 00:10:05,56 a dot blogspot dot com So one word and Bill to turn it over to you but you know 115 00:10:05,60 --> 00:10:11,45 I've noticed from reading your blog that in Iran of sunshine week you said that you 116 00:10:11,46 --> 00:10:17,40 were going to ask the poor public liaison for copies of two packages of that I M G 117 00:10:17,54 --> 00:10:22,07 prepared for the two commercial airlines and copies of all the reports. So the deal 118 00:10:22,08 --> 00:10:22,45 T. 119 00:10:22,46 --> 00:10:26,62 On the expenditure is for grant for the grant monies can you share some of the experience 120 00:10:26,68 --> 00:10:28,22 out of that work I mean it's a little bit of 121 00:10:28,23 --> 00:10:31,61 a test of weeks not over yet but I never thought I'd be introduced to the citizen 122 00:10:31,62 --> 00:10:36,53 blog that's my first comment but I'm Kraven got it back from the airport rightly as 123 00:10:36,54 --> 00:10:40,76 on film they'd be confident he'll send it back any time I ask for information I do 124 00:10:40,77 --> 00:10:46,04 get it back usually I get ten days I don't have it yet I know I will get it before 125 00:10:46,05 --> 00:10:48,35 I get into that let's talk about some positive things in 126 00:10:48,36 --> 00:10:51,51 a city that where the way I think it should work then the city does 127 00:10:51,52 --> 00:10:55,67 a great job with the with the Internet open access to government if you look at the 128 00:10:55,68 --> 00:11:00,81 Treasury's website the assessors website the city clerk's website or the purchasing 129 00:11:00,82 --> 00:11:05,25 department it's excellent you go right on line you can look up tons of information 130 00:11:05,26 --> 00:11:07,22 so the city does a very very good job in 131 00:11:07,23 --> 00:11:12,22 a lot of regards even on the boards planning boards in the Zoning Board of Appeals 132 00:11:12,85 --> 00:11:16,94 You couldn't pay me enough money to be one of those any one of those people they do 133 00:11:16,95 --> 00:11:20,55 an incredible job. Twice 134 00:11:20,56 --> 00:11:24,79 a month or at the library but you go online and you can look up the agenda for the 135 00:11:24,80 --> 00:11:28,66 next meeting they set out the evidence going to be an agenda and if you miss 136 00:11:28,67 --> 00:11:34,03 a meeting you can go online you can see exactly how did and it's right it's 137 00:11:34,04 --> 00:11:39,19 a great resource. Where my frustration is with the city with the airport commission 138 00:11:39,96 --> 00:11:43,07 where are those good things I just talked about we can get all this information 139 00:11:43,65 --> 00:11:48,50 trying to find out about the airports is very very difficult. For some reason 140 00:11:48,51 --> 00:11:52,86 a couple years ago I get very frustrated at the airport and saying that if what 141 00:11:52,87 --> 00:11:53,13 should be 142 00:11:53,14 --> 00:11:57,10 a great asset for the city of West what we all know what's not so I just thought of 143 00:11:57,11 --> 00:12:02,30 looking up some stuff and it was virtually impossible to get you know you get the 144 00:12:02,31 --> 00:12:04,38 operating agreement at Massport you say it is 145 00:12:04,39 --> 00:12:11,31 a master plan with. Jacobs consultant Lee Fisher There's also the alphabet soup so 146 00:12:11,32 --> 00:12:13,77 I try to tie all that information together and I put together 147 00:12:13,78 --> 00:12:17,88 a website and but we go daddy put a website together in 148 00:12:17,89 --> 00:12:22,80 a very simple just trying to show everything that the. The airport what's going on 149 00:12:22,81 --> 00:12:26,70 with the airport to that end then someone says what about the airport minutes 150 00:12:27,54 --> 00:12:27,75 that's 151 00:12:27,76 --> 00:12:31,82 a really good idea so I called the airport and I asked for like the wrap for the 152 00:12:31,86 --> 00:12:36,62 six from January two thousand and five through July of two thousand and five 153 00:12:36,63 --> 00:12:40,13 Affleck seven months worth of minutes that request was 154 00:12:40,14 --> 00:12:44,49 a kind of well why do you want I'm not sure if you can give in to the Eventually I 155 00:12:44,50 --> 00:12:50,24 did get the minutes and they were on there on the website. Excellent minutes with 156 00:12:50,25 --> 00:12:56,98 this comprehensive it told you everything that's going on. I wanted to tell you it 157 00:12:56,99 --> 00:13:00,59 was very very informative and I thought it tied everything to together on the 158 00:13:00,60 --> 00:13:05,35 website kind of the background what's going on month to month and also from that 159 00:13:05,39 --> 00:13:08,08 semi That minutes every month I'm going to post them and I thought to be 160 00:13:08,10 --> 00:13:12,51 a good thing for the citizens for us to see it hopefully something just like the 161 00:13:12,53 --> 00:13:16,91 zoning board the planning board and those other things that did stuff that never 162 00:13:16,92 --> 00:13:18,03 amount but you know it's 163 00:13:18,03 --> 00:13:23,87 a big difference after that but the latter half of two thousand and five and all to 164 00:13:23,88 --> 00:13:26,30 two thousand and six so I could take 165 00:13:26,31 --> 00:13:31,100 a test look at January February two thousand and five minutes nine pages eight 166 00:13:32,01 --> 00:13:35,39 pages four of information and I look at the minutes last year I want to know people 167 00:13:35,40 --> 00:13:41,37 are looking at it and it's like conversations ensued it's a very it's 168 00:13:41,38 --> 00:13:46,48 a really don't read the minutes and it's it's not what it should be and that's part 169 00:13:46,49 --> 00:13:50,87 of my first my main frustration is that it said we really should know what's going 170 00:13:50,88 --> 00:13:56,15 on happen at the city council meeting tonight. I don't think that the board should 171 00:13:56,16 --> 00:13:56,35 take 172 00:13:56,36 --> 00:14:02,78 a top secret negotiations that Massport negotiations with an airline should be in 173 00:14:02,79 --> 00:14:03,77 the minutes but maybe it's 174 00:14:03,78 --> 00:14:08,11 a question for the D.A.'s office but that's what I thought they call an executive 175 00:14:08,12 --> 00:14:13,07 session and they put a lot of stuff in executive session for us to look at 176 00:14:13,08 --> 00:14:17,84 a later date as far as I can tell from the board minutes never carbon executive 177 00:14:17,85 --> 00:14:22,76 session so just kind of wrap it up but if you look at the board minutes and would 178 00:14:22,77 --> 00:14:26,78 only the board members which I find hard to believe never ask questions about 179 00:14:26,79 --> 00:14:31,37 airlines we're talking about never ask questions about what's going on at Massport 180 00:14:32,09 --> 00:14:36,80 And I think that's pretty naive and I only wish that the commission could run run 181 00:14:36,81 --> 00:14:40,36 it just as well as the other ones and the saddest thing is that the next three 182 00:14:40,37 --> 00:14:43,88 months we're going to make a huge decision on the future about the airport it's 183 00:14:43,89 --> 00:14:45,89 a multimillion dollar ask that we're losing 184 00:14:46,11 --> 00:14:49,96 a lot of money and too bad it wasn't being done as well as some of the other things 185 00:14:50,00 --> 00:14:55,23 in the city is that you need two minutes can you get minutes to non-approved Yeah 186 00:14:55,28 --> 00:14:59,16 well my understanding was that you could you should be able to get minutes right 187 00:14:59,17 --> 00:15:02,91 away and then they would mark it as a draft coffee and that's the drawback it is 188 00:15:02,92 --> 00:15:06,08 a draft copy and you it's on is 189 00:15:06,09 --> 00:15:11,71 a draft the next month it gets voted but it's not just the minutes it's the content 190 00:15:11,72 --> 00:15:15,76 of that it's not it's just there you can't just otherwise by the way that you can 191 00:15:15,77 --> 00:15:20,53 get them. To get out I don't know and I mean I can't believe that they had don't 192 00:15:20,69 --> 00:15:20,97 don't have 193 00:15:20,98 --> 00:15:24,77 a current executive session to discuss some stuff that maybe is outside the scope 194 00:15:24,78 --> 00:15:30,95 of the regular minutes thank you both thirty seconds or well under which they've 195 00:15:30,96 --> 00:15:34,99 got three seconds over since good we're going to move on joining us also is 196 00:15:35,00 --> 00:15:39,60 Patricia Smith she's assistant district attorney Patricia we thought you'd give us 197 00:15:39,61 --> 00:15:43,49 some background on the role of the D.A.'s office and how you're connected with 198 00:15:43,50 --> 00:15:48,72 these issues the district attorney's office it's back the opening last acts you 199 00:15:49,09 --> 00:15:53,67 rethink it provisions of the open meeting it's typically States the district 200 00:15:53,68 --> 00:15:58,08 attorney if. County in which the violation occurred so enforce the provisions of 201 00:15:58,09 --> 00:16:02,57 this section and basically the district attorney's office investigates written 202 00:16:02,58 --> 00:16:08,61 complaints of alleged open meeting with violations we also respond to open meeting 203 00:16:08,62 --> 00:16:13,71 law inquiries telephone inquiries success we also conduct edges of educational 204 00:16:13,72 --> 00:16:17,91 seminars throughout the fifty nine cities and towns within our jurisdiction to 205 00:16:17,92 --> 00:16:21,58 educate the public and members of governmental bodies with regard to the open 206 00:16:21,59 --> 00:16:26,51 meeting. Would you like 207 00:16:26,52 --> 00:16:31,55 a little background of the statute itself and the opening Are itself basically the 208 00:16:31,56 --> 00:16:35,98 open meeting laws statute is contained in generalized Chapter thirty nine sections 209 00:16:35,99 --> 00:16:37,28 twenty three A and B. 210 00:16:37,53 --> 00:16:41,22 It was enacted in one nine hundred fifty eight the statute underwent substantial 211 00:16:41,23 --> 00:16:45,04 revision and took its present form in one thousand nine hundred five there have 212 00:16:45,05 --> 00:16:45,20 been 213 00:16:45,21 --> 00:16:49,09 a number of amendments to the open meeting law since one thousand seven hundred but 214 00:16:49,10 --> 00:16:53,62 its basic format and provisions have remained basically intact and as we all know 215 00:16:53,63 --> 00:16:58,13 the legislative intent of the statute is to eliminate much of the secrecy 216 00:16:58,17 --> 00:17:03,00 surrounding the deliberations and decisions on which public policy is based so that 217 00:17:03,01 --> 00:17:07,26 governmental officials will conduct business in an open manner subject to public 218 00:17:07,27 --> 00:17:11,71 scrutiny and public debate and the basic principle of our open meeting law is 219 00:17:11,72 --> 00:17:14,88 contained in the very first paragraph of Section twenty three B. 220 00:17:15,16 --> 00:17:16,54 Which states that all meetings of 221 00:17:16,55 --> 00:17:20,75 a governmental body shall be open to the public and any person to be permitted to 222 00:17:20,76 --> 00:17:26,14 attend any meeting except as otherwise provided by this statute and that paragraph 223 00:17:26,15 --> 00:17:27,81 goes on to state no quorum of 224 00:17:27,82 --> 00:17:31,53 a governmental body shall meet in private for the purpose of deciding or 225 00:17:31,54 --> 00:17:32,46 deliberating toward 226 00:17:32,47 --> 00:17:37,85 a decision except as provided by this section however the statute does recognize 227 00:17:37,86 --> 00:17:42,51 that in certain instances public business would be hampered if our discussions were 228 00:17:42,52 --> 00:17:46,76 required to be open and for that reason the statute authorizes nine specific 229 00:17:46,77 --> 00:17:47,92 purposes for which 230 00:17:47,93 --> 00:17:53,16 a governmental body can meet in executive session which is closed to the public the 231 00:17:53,17 --> 00:17:53,84 procedure for 232 00:17:53,85 --> 00:17:58,29 a board to enter into executive session is specifically set forth in the statute 233 00:17:58,50 --> 00:18:03,47 and must be strictly followed and basically the board must first convene in an open 234 00:18:03,48 --> 00:18:04,20 session 235 00:18:04,41 --> 00:18:09,26 a majority of members must vote to go into executive session by recorded roll call 236 00:18:09,27 --> 00:18:14,25 vote the Poseidon officer must state the purpose of the executive session and also 237 00:18:14,26 --> 00:18:18,15 the facade an officer must state before the executive session whether or not the 238 00:18:18,16 --> 00:18:23,10 board will be convening after the executive session and then they are nine specific 239 00:18:23,11 --> 00:18:29,85 purposes for which. Governmental body can meet in executive session. So just 240 00:18:30,07 --> 00:18:33,31 just for clarification. Is there a day when you talk about 241 00:18:33,98 --> 00:18:37,67 a commute to find governmental body because sometimes there's 242 00:18:37,68 --> 00:18:41,83 a I think we have to know that we also need to discern the difference between say 243 00:18:41,84 --> 00:18:46,87 the city manager doing something as an administrator compared to the city council 244 00:18:46,88 --> 00:18:47,33 So there's 245 00:18:47,34 --> 00:18:51,14 a difference right yes and governmental body is defined in the open meeting are 246 00:18:51,15 --> 00:18:51,35 that's 247 00:18:51,36 --> 00:18:56,53 a generalized Chapter thirty nine Section twenty three A The definitions of governmental 248 00:18:56,54 --> 00:18:58,81 body is every board commission committee or 249 00:18:58,82 --> 00:19:04,57 a subcommittee of any district city region or town however elected appointed or 250 00:19:04,58 --> 00:19:09,34 otherwise constituted and the governing board of a local housing redevelopment or 251 00:19:09,35 --> 00:19:13,34 a similar authority provided however that this definitions are not include 252 00:19:13,35 --> 00:19:18,63 a town meeting last question should or could quit the so for example or go by at 253 00:19:18,64 --> 00:19:22,43 the airport boredom site so that the airport commission had 254 00:19:22,44 --> 00:19:27,01 a board meeting and they wanted to talk about the negotiations with an airline that 255 00:19:27,02 --> 00:19:30,06 they don't want to think should be part of the monthly minute they could call it an 256 00:19:30,07 --> 00:19:33,71 executive session and go into an executive session and talk about like 257 00:19:33,72 --> 00:19:34,66 a negotiation with 258 00:19:34,67 --> 00:19:37,91 a new line is that right what is going to be taught would that be grounds for an 259 00:19:37,92 --> 00:19:41,82 executive session there at nine specified purposes for an executive session and in 260 00:19:42,23 --> 00:19:46,09 exceptions or not to be implied the governmental body has to fit within one of 261 00:19:46,10 --> 00:19:50,70 those nine specified exceptions and in the case of the importers that is 262 00:19:50,71 --> 00:19:54,57 a governmental body that's one of the problems it was the assertion that right in 263 00:19:54,58 --> 00:19:58,51 the executive session one can the public eventually see the minutes from the place 264 00:19:58,78 --> 00:20:01,83 where the minutes of an executive session carrying means secret as long as the 265 00:20:01,84 --> 00:20:05,63 purpose for that executive session exists but no longer under the purpose of the 266 00:20:05,64 --> 00:20:10,30 statute so the governmental bodies periodically review their executive session 267 00:20:10,31 --> 00:20:13,79 minutes and determine when they can be released they should be released when the 268 00:20:13,80 --> 00:20:18,39 purpose for that no longer exists so for example to say they were in discussions 269 00:20:18,40 --> 00:20:22,04 with an airline and either one of the executive session Another those discussions 270 00:20:22,05 --> 00:20:27,74 over the over would be able to see them in. The minutes from the executive session 271 00:20:27,75 --> 00:20:31,67 because that purpose would be over I guess again it's within the discretion of the 272 00:20:31,68 --> 00:20:37,33 governmental body as to when that purpose itself very. Purpose that exist continues 273 00:20:37,34 --> 00:20:41,70 to exist you know is generally within the discretion of the board right and we have 274 00:20:41,71 --> 00:20:45,80 kids about ten seconds left in this section so I want to move but that but also 275 00:20:45,81 --> 00:20:48,96 that means we have a right to ask when they're going to we have 276 00:20:48,97 --> 00:20:52,52 a right to ask when they're going to decide it's available Do we have 277 00:20:52,53 --> 00:20:55,64 a right to monitor it generally the board's periodic or the view their exact 278 00:20:55,65 --> 00:21:01,37 expression and determine if they can now be publicly. Is there are checks and 279 00:21:01,38 --> 00:21:02,23 balance to that is there 280 00:21:02,24 --> 00:21:05,07 a point where you can say OK that's enough we need to know there's no space there 281 00:21:05,08 --> 00:21:09,94 isn't hearing OK after that OK we're going to move on Thank you Patricia we're 282 00:21:09,95 --> 00:21:15,84 going to move on to the three topics and this is fun isn't just cool. 283 00:21:17,16 --> 00:21:22,30 What are your rights to know. This is the discussion sort of an at large question 284 00:21:22,31 --> 00:21:27,18 we want to throw out and offer to the panel and we're going to have Jaime start 285 00:21:27,19 --> 00:21:31,63 this section off and we could talk for about three minutes and then the remaining 286 00:21:31,81 --> 00:21:35,83 time of this action which will be about eight to ten minutes or so will we can all 287 00:21:35,84 --> 00:21:40,98 discuss this panel form so Jaime you have from him as 288 00:21:41,02 --> 00:21:45,25 a spin spin Oh you're involved with media C.C.A. 289 00:21:45,26 --> 00:21:50,45 For years and years on the radio the B C U W Now you have a new show on T.V. 290 00:21:50,46 --> 00:21:56,15 Three what can you share some of those you know very volatile community can you 291 00:21:56,16 --> 00:22:00,48 share some of your perspective on this what what do you what do you see that we as 292 00:22:00,49 --> 00:22:01,11 citizens have 293 00:22:01,12 --> 00:22:06,86 a right to with regard to access to government records business meetings do you 294 00:22:06,87 --> 00:22:12,75 have any experience so open I mean to begin with this in the Constitution so you 295 00:22:12,76 --> 00:22:16,34 take it from there. But you know going back to 296 00:22:16,35 --> 00:22:18,58 a colleague of the telegram that they're going to 297 00:22:18,59 --> 00:22:23,72 a few years ago with the police request for those that have no role for 298 00:22:23,73 --> 00:22:25,73 a while and. The nine hundred seventy S. 299 00:22:25,74 --> 00:22:29,56 The Latino community complained against the police for L.H. 300 00:22:29,62 --> 00:22:35,33 Probably would retaliate and so we went to City Hall because at that time we were 301 00:22:35,34 --> 00:22:42,18 living in all of it you know to approach the process was so. They see 302 00:22:42,19 --> 00:22:46,87 this is where the Human Rights Commission should tackle this issue so they did so 303 00:22:46,88 --> 00:22:51,100 they requested those records from the police department and why did you guys the 304 00:22:52,01 --> 00:22:58,91 answer was No So you went back so. It would mean no 305 00:22:59,54 --> 00:23:05,65 so we took him in court again and the Course says that police had to release the 306 00:23:05,66 --> 00:23:11,91 records so what happened they would lose the records excitedly then those they 307 00:23:11,96 --> 00:23:18,84 cross they formation that they even. Want to do that we know. So we had to go back 308 00:23:18,85 --> 00:23:25,61 in core I mean to me to maybe also ashore it took us like four years five years for 309 00:23:25,62 --> 00:23:29,18 this case and the question was you know who's paying for all of this how much money 310 00:23:29,19 --> 00:23:35,01 you wasting and by don't I mean this is the taxpayer money for something that 311 00:23:35,02 --> 00:23:41,27 should be down in the first place we no question as. Their right to know 312 00:23:41,81 --> 00:23:48,53 in these cases perfectly for the Latino community. Can be confused sometimes for 313 00:23:48,54 --> 00:23:53,74 many reasons and number one their language barrier. Number two their lack of 314 00:23:53,75 --> 00:23:59,59 knowledge in number three. It had happened I don't know I know where that have 315 00:23:59,60 --> 00:24:04,95 happened around here but in the sections of the country people that asked for these 316 00:24:05,50 --> 00:24:11,63 documents or requests of this type of information have been intimidated. For 317 00:24:11,64 --> 00:24:14,50 a way to stop and have you know where the U.S. 318 00:24:14,51 --> 00:24:20,75 Can do this and now I guess nowadays when we're going to we have 319 00:24:20,76 --> 00:24:26,19 a different ballgame due to their umbrella national security and after nine eleven 320 00:24:26,19 --> 00:24:30,81 . Changed three hundred sixty degrees is like Weren't you 321 00:24:30,82 --> 00:24:34,77 a terrorist or you know I'm wondering if you to morrow you want to require some of 322 00:24:34,78 --> 00:24:38,75 these documents and they're going to ask you for proof for your citizenship so this 323 00:24:38,76 --> 00:24:45,68 is so many things that have happened in my personal view. Some of these. 324 00:24:47,17 --> 00:24:52,40 The Freedom of Information Act some of those things have to be change of modified 325 00:24:52,61 --> 00:24:58,78 somehow because of the way that they are. This is not working. Theory 326 00:24:59,20 --> 00:25:04,36 So thank you Jaime for that for now just because right now part of the purpose of 327 00:25:04,37 --> 00:25:08,55 this program is to make sure our viewers of this understand that this is not just 328 00:25:08,56 --> 00:25:13,22 a media issue citizen issue you have a right to know you have 329 00:25:13,23 --> 00:25:18,17 a right to access on this do you need to be a journalist Carl Carl. City are up on 330 00:25:18,18 --> 00:25:22,67 a car any government body up just to get information and I'm just tossing out as 331 00:25:22,68 --> 00:25:26,07 a question I know it already you just chime in on anything anything that you need 332 00:25:26,08 --> 00:25:32,54 to relative to this issue. No you don't but do you need to know how to play the 333 00:25:32,55 --> 00:25:37,69 game you know where to go or what to approach you're one of the presidents because 334 00:25:37,70 --> 00:25:42,76 if you don't you get lost in the shuffle period and you're going to go nowhere and 335 00:25:42,77 --> 00:25:45,84 the other thing is you know if you do and you do it as 336 00:25:45,85 --> 00:25:49,37 a single individual you gotta have some money because it's going to cost you 337 00:25:49,38 --> 00:25:49,94 they're going to drag 338 00:25:49,95 --> 00:25:54,07 a case as they say and then thousand two thousand two thousand dollars four 339 00:25:54,08 --> 00:25:57,26 thousand out of there you're going to have to you know getting broken and you find 340 00:25:57,27 --> 00:26:00,22 out this is you know what and what it takes you to 341 00:26:00,23 --> 00:26:01,61 a time when I think that happens in 342 00:26:01,62 --> 00:26:06,14 a lot of cases so you know you want your to you mention this retribution that 343 00:26:06,15 --> 00:26:07,22 you're going to be afraid of this is 344 00:26:07,23 --> 00:26:12,55 a temptation factor. And now with the rise there's even more reason maybe to be 345 00:26:12,56 --> 00:26:15,81 intimidated especially if you're an immigrant you're going to consider whether or 346 00:26:15,82 --> 00:26:21,91 not they're going to jeopardize your standing. For the background on that is fire 347 00:26:21,92 --> 00:26:24,43 is actually going to run a play 348 00:26:24,44 --> 00:26:28,84 a game one of the steps. Do you guys know anything special that we need to know is 349 00:26:28,85 --> 00:26:33,62 that this is like what are the steps that we need to take I think going into 350 00:26:34,32 --> 00:26:40,05 whatever agency whatever government you know you're seeking information from you 351 00:26:40,06 --> 00:26:44,87 know ahead of time what your rights are might my advice personal experience is not 352 00:26:44,88 --> 00:26:49,80 to try to do it over the telephone there are any number of ways to inconvenience 353 00:26:49,81 --> 00:26:56,07 you or to delay that it's going in person and asking for the set of documents that 354 00:26:56,07 --> 00:27:02,92 . You need to know what you're seeking. And preferably where it's housed in 355 00:27:03,08 --> 00:27:08,85 you know in what city agency what department and to deal with them from there be 356 00:27:08,86 --> 00:27:15,78 prepared to. Upon being shuffled around or delayed be prepared to say or to 357 00:27:15,79 --> 00:27:18,47 file a Freedom of Information. Request and it's 358 00:27:18,48 --> 00:27:24,18 a very simple process the details of which were there I think you've set up an anon 359 00:27:24,19 --> 00:27:27,45 line so we can click in the Sunday story we had there's 360 00:27:27,78 --> 00:27:34,64 a detail there on how to compile your own. It's 361 00:27:34,65 --> 00:27:34,79 just 362 00:27:34,80 --> 00:27:39,94 a matter of moral being prepared of knowing exactly what you want if you going in 363 00:27:39,98 --> 00:27:46,45 asking for I want all the things that pertain to the airport in the last five years 364 00:27:46,45 --> 00:27:53,39 . Understandably it's going to be it's going to take some time now but 365 00:27:54,30 --> 00:27:58,92 specifically I want information about your lines that him expressed interest in 366 00:27:58,96 --> 00:28:03,72 landing they're using it to somebody and if you buy narrowing it down by making you 367 00:28:03,73 --> 00:28:05,79 know a more reasonable request you've got 368 00:28:05,80 --> 00:28:11,39 a better access and then being willing to take that step to challenge any refusal 369 00:28:11,40 --> 00:28:15,90 you get I think I find it very easy to get information to be honest I just I don't 370 00:28:15,91 --> 00:28:18,10 but the Freedom of Information Act again the city has 371 00:28:18,14 --> 00:28:22,01 a ton of information right on the Internet just the city quote That's 372 00:28:22,02 --> 00:28:26,19 a great job so you go into the city council minutes and you go to the airport 373 00:28:26,20 --> 00:28:30,26 section and open attachments read up. Even on 374 00:28:30,27 --> 00:28:37,21 a city website this is tons of information my problem has been. That there is no 375 00:28:37,22 --> 00:28:40,53 information there was nothing you could so Freedom of Information request you could 376 00:28:40,54 --> 00:28:45,49 ask. And there's nothing there I mean there's just that's the problem that the 377 00:28:45,53 --> 00:28:51,40 minutes I was being kept the way they should be that's. Just the bad 378 00:28:51,98 --> 00:28:55,95 information that's what that's been my main thing and then this should be exactly 379 00:28:56,33 --> 00:29:00,03 again if they're going to claim that this top secret negotiating to go into an 380 00:29:00,04 --> 00:29:04,36 executive session and document in the minutes and say I want an executive session 381 00:29:04,37 --> 00:29:04,47 for 382 00:29:04,48 --> 00:29:08,31 a half hour but you know it doesn't happen it's just like I think they get together 383 00:29:08,32 --> 00:29:13,28 when we don't know we don't know what they talk to talk about up. Company coming 384 00:29:13,29 --> 00:29:17,56 and going to photoshop and shoot and say well that's you know that is really in the 385 00:29:17,57 --> 00:29:22,05 news you know what I want time of kind of uncomfortable and it wasn't like oh 386 00:29:22,70 --> 00:29:25,80 that's not the same as me but when you ask the police department you worried about 387 00:29:25,81 --> 00:29:28,86 going to the police department falling around not worried about any from the 388 00:29:28,87 --> 00:29:34,98 airport commission follow me around but it was I wasn't welcome then I knew I 389 00:29:34,99 --> 00:29:38,83 wasn't welcome as I was like and I'm not I don't need this and I shouldn't have 390 00:29:38,84 --> 00:29:41,25 thought I should be able to go on when I say that if I miss 391 00:29:41,26 --> 00:29:45,18 a planning board I was only Board of Appeals meaning I go and I know exactly what 392 00:29:45,19 --> 00:29:48,49 happened I say it's if you haven't done it I mean you. We should look at the 393 00:29:48,50 --> 00:29:54,22 minutes of those acts on. That one if I and I think I was there I don't think I 394 00:29:54,23 --> 00:29:58,03 want to there be any I get the impression that might not be I should go though they 395 00:29:58,04 --> 00:30:02,84 answered but it's right and wondered really since you did go to did you check the 396 00:30:03,24 --> 00:30:07,01 minutes of corresponding with you know me so I don't know about three hundred fifty 397 00:30:07,02 --> 00:30:08,89 I think it is I don't think it before it's 398 00:30:08,90 --> 00:30:12,51 a good point to I didn't do it but I know this feeling of you know not being 399 00:30:12,52 --> 00:30:18,50 satisfied with the information or fear of retribution is not necessary because. For 400 00:30:18,51 --> 00:30:21,14 the one time experience you know that you have put two and said it wasn't really 401 00:30:21,15 --> 00:30:27,55 it's like the third rail of politics for some reason this. Is my you know my 402 00:30:27,56 --> 00:30:34,08 approach what. We feel is the basic. Reason for the. 403 00:30:35,73 --> 00:30:36,65 Visit comes this guy he's 404 00:30:36,66 --> 00:30:40,44 a pain he's going to ask you feel like you're not welcome you're intimidated when 405 00:30:40,45 --> 00:30:44,06 he was behind all that I mean it's just I mean people don't want to it's not like 406 00:30:44,39 --> 00:30:48,51 none of us so that point is what we do that's important and that's. Because so many 407 00:30:48,52 --> 00:30:53,00 girls to be honest with Mr Right is right he goes I think I'm sure although I don't 408 00:30:53,01 --> 00:30:56,93 know you know go check you know what the door and you know it's again for the 409 00:30:56,94 --> 00:30:59,95 hundredth time he watches on the Zoning Board of Appeals in Atlanta where they do 410 00:30:59,96 --> 00:31:04,28 a great job and why they do a great job and I don't but I think it goes down to 411 00:31:04,29 --> 00:31:09,33 a lot it goes down to egos and you know what are you going to point to like you 412 00:31:09,34 --> 00:31:13,75 know do the right you can go outside I should probably say to viewers watching this 413 00:31:13,76 --> 00:31:16,97 because I'm sure you know the city is going to watch to see administrators go watch 414 00:31:16,98 --> 00:31:23,11 this and they were not. Intended to be attacking anybody you know you have 415 00:31:23,79 --> 00:31:24,10 U.S. 416 00:31:24,11 --> 00:31:29,33 Citizens expressing some frustrations and also just to get their point of information 417 00:31:29,34 --> 00:31:33,99 out there everybody so we just need people to learn about this. The minute record 418 00:31:34,00 --> 00:31:37,80 like I want to chime in to all of us and Western the media none of us are 419 00:31:37,81 --> 00:31:42,47 professional journalists we're all volunteers and usually when we do an Information 420 00:31:42,48 --> 00:31:46,42 request which we do pretty often we get back what we want sometimes we get the 421 00:31:46,43 --> 00:31:50,75 runaround and I used. I have this impression that maybe the city was giving us the 422 00:31:50,76 --> 00:31:51,92 run around because they thought we're just 423 00:31:51,93 --> 00:31:55,99 a bunch of those is talking to James about this team he gets the run around 424 00:31:56,00 --> 00:32:02,78 sometimes and I know and that said I mean I think we all focused on where we have 425 00:32:02,79 --> 00:32:05,39 a problem making information requests we've got 426 00:32:05,40 --> 00:32:10,74 a lot of information too with really no problem so I would totally urge anybody to 427 00:32:10,75 --> 00:32:14,12 make an Information request I mean I think the chances are really good that you're 428 00:32:14,13 --> 00:32:19,80 going to get. Without any hassles I tried to make the point when I first started 429 00:32:19,81 --> 00:32:26,38 talking about sunshine we know it's not always scapegoating or are trying to hide 430 00:32:26,42 --> 00:32:31,15 information some ulterior motive that's bad and very often it's just 431 00:32:31,16 --> 00:32:35,44 a matter of inconvenience or a clerk responsible for that job also have 432 00:32:35,92 --> 00:32:42,88 a dozen other things to do and. We have only sort of some walks and you know sort 433 00:32:42,89 --> 00:32:46,38 of response so I think sometimes you take the approach of 434 00:32:46,39 --> 00:32:52,22 a journalist I need it's my right and again be prepared to 435 00:32:53,12 --> 00:32:57,10 take that next that that following step and challenge you know to the Freedom of 436 00:32:57,11 --> 00:33:01,91 Information Act I know we experience some of them come tax credit group you know to 437 00:33:01,92 --> 00:33:05,42 set up systems places all over the city for people to test they want to come in 438 00:33:05,43 --> 00:33:08,86 they want to do it now we want to know and it's like OK we only have like two 439 00:33:08,87 --> 00:33:11,20 interns trying to help you with your taxes if there's 440 00:33:11,21 --> 00:33:15,71 a line of thirty people so you're right that sometimes it is that it's just. 441 00:33:18,06 --> 00:33:18,60 Overwhelmed 442 00:33:18,61 --> 00:33:23,38 a lot of times one find any final comments before I go to the next topic and I just 443 00:33:23,39 --> 00:33:28,88 would like to have which city I mean this is hope for you is taken I suppose if. 444 00:33:31,26 --> 00:33:35,93 Commonsense is something that has to be proved it's not the negative approach 445 00:33:36,49 --> 00:33:42,07 because bottom line is who are disempowered to moralise you and to more of 446 00:33:42,08 --> 00:33:46,32 a person might be don't hear you need to know you right you know want to hold on to 447 00:33:46,33 --> 00:33:49,22 a lot of turn around and then you. Face and it's 448 00:33:49,23 --> 00:33:55,41 a defense for everybody to know your right to know and how to go about it 449 00:33:55,89 --> 00:34:01,53 in simple and honest something government is one thing we do start hiding things 450 00:34:01,54 --> 00:34:07,47 and then the sheets something is fishy for whatever reason and because we have the 451 00:34:07,48 --> 00:34:12,47 right to know all of them we should pursue it but just for the sake before we go to 452 00:34:12,48 --> 00:34:18,13 the next topic very quickly before we. Do for those Per Person who do not have 453 00:34:18,14 --> 00:34:22,24 access to wings on the Internet and stuff you mention the requests for freedom of 454 00:34:22,25 --> 00:34:24,56 information if you happen to go into 455 00:34:24,60 --> 00:34:27,76 a government agency government body and you asked for something you're not happy 456 00:34:27,87 --> 00:34:29,41 and you say you know I'm going to file 457 00:34:29,49 --> 00:34:34,52 a Freedom of Information What do you get that from you it's 458 00:34:34,53 --> 00:34:40,08 a very simple form that. I provide the information to anyone that wants to call it 459 00:34:40,09 --> 00:34:45,09 that wants to use it OK you can you can make it yourself and it just explains what 460 00:34:45,10 --> 00:34:49,77 you're looking for the date time that sort of thing in your name the agency you're 461 00:34:49,78 --> 00:34:55,10 dealing with it's fairly simple preserves the letter Yeah it's a letter just 462 00:34:55,11 --> 00:34:59,73 a letter and it goes to the agency requesting from directly to OK and that's your 463 00:34:59,74 --> 00:35:05,67 record was claiming that right OK. And that's when we thought we'd this we've 464 00:35:05,68 --> 00:35:10,99 explored in the context of sunshine week the city managers were stores formlessness 465 00:35:11,00 --> 00:35:16,50 task force this is really recently it seems to be gaining input as an important 466 00:35:16,51 --> 00:35:17,38 issue it's been raised 467 00:35:17,39 --> 00:35:24,07 a number of times in. Media outlets. Let's just open up and say Right right is this 468 00:35:24,25 --> 00:35:30,29 gain so much attention and why is this such an important issue to discuss. Until 469 00:35:30,30 --> 00:35:35,99 the recent budget problems came to light. In the city. 470 00:35:37,30 --> 00:35:42,84 I don't think there's any more divisive issue in this city than I mean it's it's 471 00:35:42,85 --> 00:35:47,79 not the issue of homelessness it's what do we do with homeless people how do we 472 00:35:47,94 --> 00:35:54,84 shelter them and as everyone is aware that various neighborhoods of Wester some 473 00:35:54,85 --> 00:36:00,60 more than others have objected and and in ways that been very vocal in their 474 00:36:00,61 --> 00:36:06,43 opposition to that at the same time the the the largest facility in town the 475 00:36:07,95 --> 00:36:13,12 PEP shelter on Main Street. Has for 476 00:36:13,13 --> 00:36:15,07 a long time has presented something of 477 00:36:15,08 --> 00:36:21,62 a problem for residents of the main south area of that area and understandably have 478 00:36:21,62 --> 00:36:27,98 . A right to to seek that dispersal of. Of those clients. 479 00:36:29,72 --> 00:36:35,75 Social service agencies have tried to locate facilities and my neighborhood 480 00:36:36,35 --> 00:36:38,42 square with it's met with a 481 00:36:40,83 --> 00:36:46,89 a similar program for. For women with with sorority problems. 482 00:36:48,51 --> 00:36:52,04 Better that I mean it's extremely divisive the city manager 483 00:36:52,90 --> 00:36:54,74 a year ago said I'm going to appoint 484 00:36:54,78 --> 00:36:59,69 a he said US and commission to advise me on that and he said he would and now it's 485 00:36:59,69 --> 00:37:02,17 that commission shortly he just did 486 00:37:02,49 --> 00:37:09,04 a year later. And I'm not. Casting blame there. 487 00:37:11,17 --> 00:37:11,64 It just took 488 00:37:11,65 --> 00:37:18,42 a long time I guess. And then with that he announced that because it's advisory I 489 00:37:18,80 --> 00:37:24,30 think the sessions will be closed and the city solicitor David Moore provided an 490 00:37:24,31 --> 00:37:26,74 opinion citing a case involving 491 00:37:26,75 --> 00:37:33,23 a. School school personnel that are some school committee that 492 00:37:33,76 --> 00:37:38,12 they don't have to it was advisory in nature and therefore they don't have to want 493 00:37:38,75 --> 00:37:44,53 to be open. Well here you've got this issue and some say a panel or 494 00:37:44,57 --> 00:37:50,56 a commission hers that it waited more heavily in favor of. The social service 495 00:37:50,57 --> 00:37:57,30 agencies and that the attempts to disperse this population provide housing. And 496 00:37:58,65 --> 00:38:05,12 so if you've already got grounds for people to be. In the opponents to be upset and 497 00:38:05,50 --> 00:38:10,52 for whatever your your thinking is on the issue. I think you have 498 00:38:10,54 --> 00:38:15,84 a right to know and want to be involved in that process as they gather information 499 00:38:15,96 --> 00:38:22,34 now maybe Patricia will give us some. Labor lives no. 500 00:38:28,51 --> 00:38:34,03 School huge Why should government body grow yes. I was 501 00:38:34,04 --> 00:38:40,82 a. Person. Basically I'd like to tell you about the specific 502 00:38:40,83 --> 00:38:45,79 case that is that issue which is Connelly versus school committee of Hanover this 503 00:38:45,80 --> 00:38:50,62 is in one thousand nine hundred one supreme judicial case from the Supreme Judicial 504 00:38:50,63 --> 00:38:52,89 Court of Massachusetts which held that 505 00:38:52,90 --> 00:38:55,62 a high school principal selection committee which 506 00:38:55,63 --> 00:39:00,60 a town superintendent of schools appointed to assist him in nominating candidates 507 00:39:00,61 --> 00:39:03,17 for the position of high school principal was not 508 00:39:03,18 --> 00:39:06,86 a governmental body within the meaning of the open meeting law where it was not 509 00:39:06,87 --> 00:39:11,83 constituted or regulated by statute or by law and where was informally appointed to 510 00:39:11,84 --> 00:39:14,25 assist the superintendent in carrying out 511 00:39:14,26 --> 00:39:18,94 a task that the legislator legislature permitted him to perform in his sole 512 00:39:18,95 --> 00:39:23,31 discretion free from scrutiny under the open meeting law and there are just some 513 00:39:23,75 --> 00:39:29,12 provisions of this specific case which I have here with me today that shed 514 00:39:29,16 --> 00:39:32,94 a little bit of light on this the open meeting law applies only to governmental 515 00:39:32,95 --> 00:39:37,66 bodies the legislature has defined governmental body as we stated before as every 516 00:39:37,67 --> 00:39:38,49 Board Commission 517 00:39:38,50 --> 00:39:42,68 a committee or subcommittee of any district city region or town however elected 518 00:39:42,69 --> 00:39:47,73 appointed or otherwise constituted with regard to this definition the case states 519 00:39:47,74 --> 00:39:50,72 the key inquiry in this case is whether the selection committee is 520 00:39:50,73 --> 00:39:56,59 a committee of the town in this case of Hanover and for these reasons the Supreme 521 00:39:56,60 --> 00:40:00,77 Judicial Court concluded that it was not for us the selection committee in that 522 00:40:00,78 --> 00:40:06,11 case was not created pursuant to any statute or by law it was appointed informally 523 00:40:06,12 --> 00:40:10,39 by the superintendent says this factor on loan it sets the selection committee 524 00:40:10,40 --> 00:40:14,50 apart from other entities considered to be governmental bodies under the open 525 00:40:14,51 --> 00:40:19,41 meetings law almost all of which are creatures of statute ordinance or by law case 526 00:40:19,42 --> 00:40:23,60 also states of Special see. Nikken says the fact the superintendent because he is 527 00:40:23,61 --> 00:40:24,46 clearly not 528 00:40:24,47 --> 00:40:29,43 a governmental body could by himself have accomplished this task entirely free from 529 00:40:29,44 --> 00:40:33,25 the requirements of the open meeting law was his independent and exclusive 530 00:40:33,29 --> 00:40:38,43 statutory responsibility and the selection committee was established merely to 531 00:40:38,44 --> 00:40:43,96 assist him in carrying out his responsibility so these are some of the provisions 532 00:40:44,10 --> 00:40:50,27 of the Connally case which have been discussed with regard to this matter. The one 533 00:40:50,28 --> 00:40:56,45 task force common. About of with replies the sunshine week or the open reading 534 00:40:56,46 --> 00:40:57,16 a lot but I was on 535 00:40:57,17 --> 00:41:00,76 a task force for the pilot and that's where we get everybody out of school by the 536 00:41:00,77 --> 00:41:05,47 context but. We're going to three years ago we can with these great recommendations 537 00:41:05,48 --> 00:41:11,08 and help the university partnership was formed in someone's hide and I don't know 538 00:41:11,09 --> 00:41:16,48 about that I don't know exactly what. I'm more concerned about the task force that 539 00:41:16,49 --> 00:41:17,35 they're going to do not 540 00:41:17,36 --> 00:41:22,02 a pilot task force I wish they could and that example we convened 541 00:41:22,03 --> 00:41:25,73 a task force that we had because we had some great recommendations that never got 542 00:41:26,50 --> 00:41:30,35 never got implemented I was really wish that we reconvene the task force roll out 543 00:41:30,36 --> 00:41:34,10 the recommendations we came up with and see you know what we have done what we have 544 00:41:34,11 --> 00:41:37,79 and we didn't do very through the recommendations and the only things when I think 545 00:41:37,80 --> 00:41:41,63 the hardest task force it's like done this before and I say again I hope this is 546 00:41:41,64 --> 00:41:47,79 somebody that we're going to reconvene what we did before and but as not to do it 547 00:41:48,60 --> 00:41:49,70 have been done before I looked at 548 00:41:49,71 --> 00:41:53,45 a governor's speech we were in for President McGovern It was 549 00:41:53,46 --> 00:41:57,35 a you could play it again you know the next election and everything he wants this 550 00:41:57,36 --> 00:42:01,12 part of the task force was to make one of you know accidents like this we should 551 00:42:01,13 --> 00:42:05,21 reconvene the task force and look at our recommendations it's easy time she's or 552 00:42:05,22 --> 00:42:08,50 may not need to start asking to register used to redefine governmental body to be 553 00:42:08,51 --> 00:42:12,69 a little more broad Rapson. Question before I was in 554 00:42:12,70 --> 00:42:16,22 a jury wants to say something I could tell you if you were growing up you know. 555 00:42:18,04 --> 00:42:23,56 That the sitting. President by allowing city employees to subpoena boards of 556 00:42:23,57 --> 00:42:25,95 commissions because now you see she was the be more of 557 00:42:25,96 --> 00:42:30,49 a government bribery infiltrating on these boards of commission is that going to 558 00:42:30,68 --> 00:42:33,31 going to cause some problems in the future I mean I think it's 559 00:42:33,32 --> 00:42:35,02 a great idea to be honest I think there's 560 00:42:35,03 --> 00:42:41,84 a city employees. Obviously I don't think. I mean they might be some conflicts I 561 00:42:41,85 --> 00:42:44,14 don't know that they are pox employee should be on 562 00:42:44,15 --> 00:42:49,35 a pox commission but I think we want people that. I just don't see how that could 563 00:42:49,36 --> 00:42:51,39 possibly be a bad thing a city where he's been 564 00:42:51,40 --> 00:42:53,83 a state employee that can't magically 565 00:42:53,84 --> 00:42:58,70 a bad thing and then deciding that you mentioned which was sure it was not the 566 00:42:58,71 --> 00:43:05,19 superintendent he would be considered as he. Is appealing to these lawsuits have to 567 00:43:05,20 --> 00:43:06,31 say we're going to tell you it's not 568 00:43:06,32 --> 00:43:11,56 a governmental body appointed this particular committee to assist him and with him 569 00:43:11,57 --> 00:43:16,06 duties that where he has discretion. I think you are the airport commission should 570 00:43:16,07 --> 00:43:19,18 let one member pee outside the city be on the board it is 571 00:43:19,19 --> 00:43:21,54 a regional airport I don't live in 572 00:43:21,55 --> 00:43:26,40 a city that's what I mean like I mean I just briefly want to say that we've got in 573 00:43:26,41 --> 00:43:30,23 the home business situation and life 574 00:43:30,24 --> 00:43:35,40 a social worker that for many years living with them and this is 575 00:43:35,41 --> 00:43:42,32 a political issue. In Actually I think that City Hall or the 576 00:43:42,33 --> 00:43:46,35 see the administration by closing the place is doing themselves 577 00:43:46,36 --> 00:43:52,95 a favor because all those little pressure right to close their place and throw away 578 00:43:52,96 --> 00:43:58,96 of these of these people is called. They cost would be. 579 00:44:00,02 --> 00:44:06,47 Yes I will reach as far as emergency rooms and everything else if these people 580 00:44:06,48 --> 00:44:09,46 doesn't have a place to roll Now why is that they don't have 581 00:44:09,47 --> 00:44:16,06 a place to go because we don't have. Many go back we have in your community 582 00:44:16,07 --> 00:44:21,42 the holidays but whatever you want to call it I've seen many of those come and go 583 00:44:21,69 --> 00:44:25,33 with the same ideas do it through US Oh and by you know we're going to finish with 584 00:44:25,34 --> 00:44:29,21 the homeless situation in the city I mean here in the for the city fifteen years 585 00:44:29,70 --> 00:44:35,12 and what have been not doing we still play in this thing work. We're really bugs 586 00:44:35,13 --> 00:44:40,51 the hell out of me and we put it in these boards and these commissions they see 587 00:44:41,41 --> 00:44:46,65 people that have been in their previous commissions I mean they normally. Be in 588 00:44:46,66 --> 00:44:48,79 a solution of things through 589 00:44:48,80 --> 00:44:52,93 a program problem so I don't I don't see him you know I don't see these commute is 590 00:44:53,10 --> 00:44:54,82 going nowhere this is 591 00:44:54,83 --> 00:44:59,39 a real commitment for this city that we're going to something regarding the only 592 00:44:59,40 --> 00:45:05,11 solution to this is. Affordable housing and the visuals provide programs that 593 00:45:05,12 --> 00:45:09,60 includes mental health so if sense of use and you name it that's the only way it 594 00:45:09,61 --> 00:45:15,80 was whatever they say in my book is born with Mike we were both were actually 595 00:45:15,81 --> 00:45:18,85 running around this time but I'll give you thirty seconds I just want to say I hope 596 00:45:18,86 --> 00:45:22,26 that some or most people including in those commissions because I wanted to I 597 00:45:22,27 --> 00:45:26,68 wanted to just point out one reason why this city might want to keep my one 598 00:45:26,69 --> 00:45:32,68 transparency my want to open up some of these meetings where they do is because 599 00:45:33,59 --> 00:45:35,21 I think that what you sometimes see as the C.E.O. 600 00:45:35,22 --> 00:45:35,27 Of 601 00:45:35,28 --> 00:45:38,58 a town Town Planning Board has been meeting they're kind of trying to keep the public 602 00:45:38,59 --> 00:45:42,33 out what's going on then they announce some big decision and then the next meeting 603 00:45:42,34 --> 00:45:45,99 the planning board there's one hundred angry people they're all making speeches are 604 00:45:46,00 --> 00:45:49,81 people picketing outside this is like the worst use of the time of the playing 605 00:45:49,82 --> 00:45:50,59 board it's not 606 00:45:50,60 --> 00:45:54,63 a very efficient time of use of the time that people concerns either it's much 607 00:45:54,64 --> 00:45:58,92 better to keep people included the whole way I think we've seen this with the 608 00:45:58,93 --> 00:46:02,62 funding of the CIA that nobody has any idea what's going on with the pony and the 609 00:46:02,63 --> 00:46:03,52 C.C.A. 610 00:46:03,56 --> 00:46:07,50 And then at the you know public safety and Transportation Committee subcommittee 611 00:46:07,65 --> 00:46:12,71 hearing you suddenly got one hundred fifty people who are angry or anxious who are 612 00:46:12,86 --> 00:46:16,39 making long speeches and some cutting many members are just sort of sitting there 613 00:46:16,43 --> 00:46:20,60 like what are we supposed to do and everybody who is there with concerns they're 614 00:46:20,61 --> 00:46:24,95 not really getting their concerns answered and that maybe if I think more of 615 00:46:24,96 --> 00:46:27,50 something like this is going to happen the homeless the homeless come through 616 00:46:27,72 --> 00:46:31,04 they're going to announce their recommendations and the next meeting with me about 617 00:46:31,05 --> 00:46:33,32 this is that me two hundred people is if you will pick 618 00:46:33,33 --> 00:46:38,76 a. Whatever they recommendation let's go doesn't die and while waiting. We're going 619 00:46:38,77 --> 00:46:45,21 to move on to the next. Issue with the topic is public records. In particular 620 00:46:45,67 --> 00:46:46,33 there's been 621 00:46:46,90 --> 00:46:53,55 a big story lately about the coming gun. Bits and pieces here but the 622 00:46:53,59 --> 00:46:54,30 target is 623 00:46:54,31 --> 00:46:59,54 a good fight to retain complete records against the police can you share some 624 00:47:00,15 --> 00:47:02,27 school you share some highlights of this is is there 625 00:47:02,28 --> 00:47:06,23 a success story in this horrible government or not enough you know we don't it's 626 00:47:06,24 --> 00:47:06,92 not unique to 627 00:47:06,93 --> 00:47:13,95 a step ahead maybe it is I don't let's all move. Success 628 00:47:13,96 --> 00:47:15,68 I mean. That's 629 00:47:15,69 --> 00:47:21,77 a loaded term. One thousand nine hundred nine reporter from the T.N.G. 630 00:47:21,83 --> 00:47:24,14 John Monahan got wind of 631 00:47:24,15 --> 00:47:30,41 a complaint. It was to residents named Shawn Wilder he and 632 00:47:30,42 --> 00:47:37,35 a friend were. Downtown. Walking and I think coming back from the bars 633 00:47:37,36 --> 00:47:44,35 I recall. They had matched have supposedly matched 634 00:47:44,36 --> 00:47:47,19 the description of a two suspects in 635 00:47:47,20 --> 00:47:53,18 a criminal case. They were approached by the first officers on the scene 636 00:47:54,10 --> 00:48:00,01 thrown to the ground the one young man while her had. Just recovered from 637 00:48:00,02 --> 00:48:05,45 a severe neck injury and was injured even more seriously with this. 638 00:48:06,94 --> 00:48:11,68 The his account to Monaghan prompted 639 00:48:12,43 --> 00:48:17,16 a look by our paper into the situation and from there 640 00:48:17,17 --> 00:48:23,18 a three year legal battle. That first resulted in the first step was 641 00:48:23,19 --> 00:48:30,11 a decision we requested the. Internal Affairs investigation report on that. On 642 00:48:30,12 --> 00:48:36,00 that arrest and what happened we were refused. We went to the city solicitor still 643 00:48:36,59 --> 00:48:42,32 then and now David Moore we were it was issued that internal affairs records are 644 00:48:42,33 --> 00:48:49,25 private. We went to district court Superior Court here. We were the 645 00:48:49,26 --> 00:48:54,42 case was the City side was upheld we appealed to the appellate court and finally 646 00:48:54,43 --> 00:49:01,40 one. That was challenged by the city. And ultimately it 647 00:49:01,41 --> 00:49:05,17 went to the S J C And in two thousand and three three and 648 00:49:05,18 --> 00:49:11,92 a half years later. Our right to that information. Was 649 00:49:11,93 --> 00:49:17,51 given and we finally got the report as we were looking for one story that 650 00:49:17,52 --> 00:49:23,08 essentially corroborated what Sean Wilder had to say that pointed out some 651 00:49:23,09 --> 00:49:28,79 embarrassing details to the police department but not necessarily criminal 652 00:49:29,98 --> 00:49:35,65 not worth the tens of thousands of dollars that it cost us the aggravation the 653 00:49:37,03 --> 00:49:39,52 whatever I mean it was it was 654 00:49:39,53 --> 00:49:46,37 a long battle and caused. Animosity with this 655 00:49:46,41 --> 00:49:50,69 between the newspaper in the city and as most specifically the police department 656 00:49:51,48 --> 00:49:58,42 affecting in some ways our ability to cover what was happening. It's 657 00:49:58,58 --> 00:50:03,03 it's done with now I mean as I said That story was finally written and there were 658 00:50:03,04 --> 00:50:06,75 countless stories written about the legal battle but the one story you were after 659 00:50:06,76 --> 00:50:08,08 and what could have been written three and 660 00:50:08,09 --> 00:50:14,23 a half years ago if people are just opened up was. It was finally in the summer of 661 00:50:14,54 --> 00:50:21,29 two thousand and three. Did we when it's hard for us to get internal affairs 662 00:50:21,30 --> 00:50:28,11 reports now it's harder it's difficult. Now you watch across the T.G. 663 00:50:28,12 --> 00:50:32,42 Is it also cross for the city to hold that back. Because I have 664 00:50:32,43 --> 00:50:35,31 a tough time right now I want to be easier and cheaper just to say here it is I 665 00:50:35,32 --> 00:50:40,46 mean it must must must cost some as this one turns out everything costs and 666 00:50:40,47 --> 00:50:46,80 a whole lot cheaper for them. You've got to use lies in the services of your 667 00:50:46,81 --> 00:50:50,98 existing city solicitor's office and I I really can't remember when they retired 668 00:50:51,23 --> 00:50:54,03 retained private counsel for going on but it took 669 00:50:54,04 --> 00:50:59,46 a lot of manpower and time on their part it cost them something and. That's what it 670 00:50:59,47 --> 00:50:59,60 was 671 00:50:59,61 --> 00:51:05,51 a waste of money is there any kind of recourse or Patricia if you can chime in with 672 00:51:06,12 --> 00:51:10,03 I mean it's harder now to get information it starts just as hard for them to get 673 00:51:10,04 --> 00:51:13,91 information it could be anything of the in the media folks have had some more 674 00:51:13,92 --> 00:51:18,00 situations or Mike we're going to but is there any recourse to that I mean is 675 00:51:18,01 --> 00:51:22,57 really what we can do is. That's something that would be deferred to the secretary 676 00:51:22,58 --> 00:51:28,63 of state's office the supervisor records. Going to the appropriate agency and 677 00:51:28,64 --> 00:51:34,45 defacing to handle that and to that question who you might be if you want to share 678 00:51:34,46 --> 00:51:38,55 some of these great was on me we've had we have an outstanding public records 679 00:51:38,56 --> 00:51:43,08 request right now out of was during the media that comes exactly out of that 680 00:51:43,09 --> 00:51:47,46 Supreme Judicial Court case so within the past year and Wister there's been some 681 00:51:47,47 --> 00:51:50,15 concern with police behavior I mean I think it's really just 682 00:51:50,16 --> 00:51:54,39 a couple of bad apples but you had one policeman who is like probably who was 683 00:51:54,40 --> 00:52:00,15 exposed when he caught lewdly exposing himself or obscene lives exposing himself to 684 00:52:00,36 --> 00:52:05,12 poison one hundred farms you had one officer who was arrested for dealing drugs and 685 00:52:05,13 --> 00:52:05,38 so there's 686 00:52:05,39 --> 00:52:08,70 a little concern about what the heck is going on with your police department right 687 00:52:08,71 --> 00:52:13,08 now and so knowing that the Supreme Judicial Court had said that at least some of 688 00:52:13,09 --> 00:52:19,51 these citizen complaint records are public information and and knowing that there 689 00:52:19,60 --> 00:52:22,05 was the police department has announced that they've moved it all over to 690 00:52:22,06 --> 00:52:25,32 additional database we said OK let's file 691 00:52:25,33 --> 00:52:29,43 a records request and find out what we can find out what will they tell us so we 692 00:52:29,44 --> 00:52:29,72 sent them 693 00:52:29,73 --> 00:52:32,97 a records request we said you know we're not lawyers we know that the Supreme 694 00:52:32,98 --> 00:52:36,67 Judicial Court has said that some of the stuff we can have some of it we can't. 695 00:52:37,72 --> 00:52:42,00 Send us send us whatever you can send us send us whatever you think you know we 696 00:52:42,01 --> 00:52:44,94 didn't set any particular bar just send us something and that's something from 697 00:52:44,95 --> 00:52:49,83 these records and they wrote back saying we can't send you anything which again is 698 00:52:49,84 --> 00:52:54,53 not an annoyance seem like completely at odds with the supreme judicial court and 699 00:52:54,54 --> 00:52:58,42 sat so the recourse that we then took is we went to the secretary of the common 700 00:52:58,43 --> 00:53:03,69 wall and we said we kind of feel like we're being stonewalled here and he has 701 00:53:03,70 --> 00:53:04,73 a sense of pointed 702 00:53:04,77 --> 00:53:09,76 a attorney to look into this situation and we're just kind of waiting to find out 703 00:53:09,77 --> 00:53:16,21 what's going on. So that's where we are right now and I think you know when you 704 00:53:16,22 --> 00:53:21,99 when you think about it I mean you know it's this is an institution in the Pentagon 705 00:53:22,24 --> 00:53:27,76 who looked into them people who were the group with money would say No Yeah thanks 706 00:53:27,77 --> 00:53:32,71 it's not the people. And against the police department I notice that due to 707 00:53:32,72 --> 00:53:37,98 a lot of money now imagine. Yourself or I as 708 00:53:37,99 --> 00:53:44,66 a single individuals trying to tackle something ladies. Just the way they're used 709 00:53:45,00 --> 00:53:48,97 and what I'm I'm going to go with these you don't have any what is the matter WHAT 710 00:53:48,98 --> 00:53:53,50 DO WE NEED the road to where you want to go in the three years three of us' whether 711 00:53:53,87 --> 00:53:58,89 it was an individual No no I know and I think that if the if the the attorney 712 00:53:59,14 --> 00:54:02,94 appointed by the SEC or the Commonwealth doesn't get anywhere for in the media we 713 00:54:02,95 --> 00:54:06,54 don't I mean we don't have any money as an organization I don't know what we would 714 00:54:06,55 --> 00:54:10,91 do in that situation was thinking they could get some. Sunshine 715 00:54:10,92 --> 00:54:14,72 a week I think my foot just the one of the problems I'm having was with the public 716 00:54:14,73 --> 00:54:16,22 records requests they can give us 717 00:54:16,23 --> 00:54:22,37 a question more for yourself how do we. How do we ensure that want to avoid 718 00:54:22,38 --> 00:54:29,10 a meets that they discuss everything at the board meeting on the minutes and 719 00:54:29,11 --> 00:54:33,66 they're not meeting and private anyone is wanted to present to discuss things 720 00:54:33,67 --> 00:54:37,36 because I don't want to use that I find it hard to believe that the I think 721 00:54:37,72 --> 00:54:38,11 commission is 722 00:54:38,12 --> 00:54:42,26 a smart guys I think they know exactly what we're talking to I think they know 723 00:54:42,27 --> 00:54:48,29 what's going on how do we how do you how do you mind that how do we of course that 724 00:54:48,62 --> 00:54:49,65 they meet as 725 00:54:49,66 --> 00:54:52,79 a group and I discuss that and they don't you know I mean it just seems like when I 726 00:54:52,80 --> 00:54:58,48 do that you've got to keep in mind. There are areas and delicate business 727 00:54:58,49 --> 00:55:00,64 negotiations say they were they had 728 00:55:00,65 --> 00:55:06,43 a carrier had expressed interest I mean you don't want to blow your cover there's 729 00:55:06,44 --> 00:55:11,43 a there's a reason there's a good reason to keep stuff private for 730 00:55:11,47 --> 00:55:14,90 a while but that's when they should call an exam if you're that's when they should 731 00:55:14,91 --> 00:55:21,50 call an executive session I don't want to correct. And I should point out the 732 00:55:21,87 --> 00:55:26,77 thing about police records you have to keep it's getting better I mean that's still 733 00:55:26,78 --> 00:55:32,01 a very delicate topic internal investigations but yeah it is better I mean I think 734 00:55:32,02 --> 00:55:32,27 you've got 735 00:55:32,28 --> 00:55:37,80 a more open and. Receptive police chief and certainly that is counterfeiters 736 00:55:37,81 --> 00:55:44,06 predecessor's and definite progress there but I think more of them. You know 737 00:55:44,07 --> 00:55:50,86 specific laws to what we've got is good I think now it's for all of us public 738 00:55:50,87 --> 00:55:57,82 media all citizen bloggers to be more demanding of those that. Are 739 00:55:57,83 --> 00:56:03,87 in positions of authority and and you know try to push that movement for more 740 00:56:04,08 --> 00:56:10,67 openness more transparency in government secrecy because nine eleven and one agency 741 00:56:10,68 --> 00:56:14,17 cooperated with another provided that information they should have we might have 742 00:56:14,18 --> 00:56:20,55 avoided the Unabomber that horrible case two decades three decades ago 743 00:56:20,71 --> 00:56:26,13 wasn't solved until they finally put out in the media you know the script that 744 00:56:26,18 --> 00:56:31,68 scribbling meanderings of the of the suspect until they finally went the publicity 745 00:56:31,69 --> 00:56:38,42 route went open and then his brother saw that. The stuff recognized that the 746 00:56:38,43 --> 00:56:44,19 symptoms and turned him in the snipers and were arrested in Washington they finally 747 00:56:45,11 --> 00:56:48,32 so scared about that in public you know sentiment was at 748 00:56:48,33 --> 00:56:53,06 a height everybody was nervous they finally put out the one drawing they had of the 749 00:56:53,29 --> 00:56:58,45 the guy and he was arrested who said what they were more than agree that some of 750 00:56:58,46 --> 00:57:03,15 the Goshen for the airlines should be secret I think I emphasize again that's when 751 00:57:03,16 --> 00:57:06,59 I caught executive session with an avoidable and if I was like a top at 752 00:57:06,60 --> 00:57:09,30 a board minutes that hasn't been an executive session I could be 753 00:57:09,31 --> 00:57:15,87 a stand to be corrected but I know that they have so. How do you how do we make 754 00:57:15,88 --> 00:57:19,90 sure that these guys that the boards you can discuss and stuff as 755 00:57:19,91 --> 00:57:25,23 a group. And the invoice I think one thing is you know one thing that's changed in 756 00:57:25,24 --> 00:57:28,65 the last twenty years that you have the Internet now so that you can pose an even 757 00:57:28,66 --> 00:57:32,48 posting all week about like this seems very fishy to me I can't believe that it's 758 00:57:32,49 --> 00:57:37,86 actually working out this way and you know people are seeing that and I mean 759 00:57:37,87 --> 00:57:42,42 internet you point out the city's website which is wonderful and then does open up 760 00:57:42,42 --> 00:57:48,95 . Many doors but then in the same true she knows these cases when 761 00:57:49,25 --> 00:57:56,24 selectman conducted business my my e-mail points are accessible. Because it's 762 00:57:56,25 --> 00:57:59,49 not for sale it's by a quorum of members of 763 00:57:59,50 --> 00:58:03,54 a governmental body which relate to public business within their jurisdiction 764 00:58:03,55 --> 00:58:07,83 violate the open meeting and we have had several cases of violations of the open 765 00:58:07,84 --> 00:58:09,90 meeting in our e-mail discussions by 766 00:58:09,91 --> 00:58:14,46 a quorum of members of boards so what I am right saying at the predicative 767 00:58:14,74 --> 00:58:15,53 Obviously this would be 768 00:58:15,54 --> 00:58:20,81 a public records request to say all the emails from the airport leaders on the list 769 00:58:20,82 --> 00:58:25,74 well like I said he said Well number one governmental bodies should not be 770 00:58:25,75 --> 00:58:27,45 discussing how the business by e-mails 771 00:58:27,46 --> 00:58:32,16 a quorum of members separate board should not be that would be. In an instance of 772 00:58:32,17 --> 00:58:34,20 a governmental body discussing public business would be 773 00:58:34,21 --> 00:58:40,58 a violation of the open meeting. Well we're just about out of time I just want to 774 00:58:40,59 --> 00:58:46,41 thank all the panelists for joining us we'll have to do this again some time. If 775 00:58:46,42 --> 00:58:50,38 not sooner at least for the next Sunshine Week definitely it was 776 00:58:50,39 --> 00:58:54,43 a lot of work with thank you all for working on this again thanks to Kevin percent 777 00:58:54,60 --> 00:58:57,16 because I want to also acknowledge that US We do have 778 00:58:57,17 --> 00:59:02,43 a city council here today with the audience Gary rose and. A number of 779 00:59:02,44 --> 00:59:07,24 distinguished members here joining us as well in the audience and I can't name any 780 00:59:07,25 --> 00:59:11,98 further because I don't want to leave somebody all of the. People out so thank you 781 00:59:11,99 --> 00:59:17,89 for joining us. Sunshine for such. 782 00:59:19,22 --> 00:59:24,68 As ours. The people stand up for auction and remember the right to know.