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Poster:	brewster	Date:	March 18, 2007 11:07:41am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	What is Non-Commercial Use?

This post ( http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=111591 )

gives a possible definition of non-commercial use. Please comment here.

-brewster

This post was modified by brewster on 2007-03-18 19:07:41

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Poster:	Ben80	Date:	March 18, 2007 07:02:52pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

Non-Commercial Use is when you are allowed to use something only if you don't make money. So you can't download one of their dead shows and sell em but listen to them all you want

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Poster:	Telephone Toughguy	Date:	March 19, 2007 06:00:02am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

When it comes to samples to be used in the construction of other works, it means you can make a song out of the CC licensed material as your own for profit, but you cannot reproduce and sell the samples for profit.

Example you take samples or a track from a CC lincenced song. You cannot burn CD's or CD-ROM's and sell copies. You can however remix the song or use the samples in your composition so long as you, in the case of attribution, credit the creators of the original work.

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Poster:	artberry	Date:	March 19, 2007 07:09:07am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

So if you just make some meaningless video and bung the track on as the sound track you can do whatever you want with it? Somehow I don't think it's that that simple. :)

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Poster:	artberry	Date:	March 19, 2007 06:31:09am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

One major problem with the lack of clarity in the definition of "non-commercial" use is the use of samples in film and video.

If you are make a film or video to upload onto youtube then by simple definition since one is not reselling that film I would assume that as non-commercial use.

However considering a video or film can be a work of art in it's own right and an advertisement of the artist or film-maker's skills, which may bring monetary gain in other ways offer of work etc You might also have people asking for a higher quality version of your video film on DVD then it's debatable whether that's "non commercial". IOW Whilst the intention of an art work may be "art for art sake" obviously it may also sell and make loads of money. Artist don't necessarily know this in advance.

I dare say the case is similar with using samples within other music tracks. You might initially create something in your bedroom for your own entertainment and maybe share with a few friends in which case you could safely get away with using any sample regardless of it's copyright status. However if the track gets to number one, then obviously you are going to get a telephone call.

So what does "non-commercial" mean? Does it mean people are not going to sue you when you get to number one with your re-mix because you thought it was a load of rubbish when you did it and were surprised it made you a million and had no intention of becoming a multi-millionaire on the back some poor artist giving his/her work away on the Internet archive? Somehow I don't think so LOL

I think one could argue most derivative works may be regarded as non-commercial until they are offered for sale or start selling. But publishing someting doesn't necessarily mean the same as selling something.

Of course then you also run up against the question what is the definition of "no derivatives". There comes a point where something derived in part from other pre-existing material may not be recognisable in any case.

In film or video one might only wish to use a part of a track as a backing music. The original artist might be pleased to have their music sampled in a film as long as it's accredited. In spite of the fact the say "no derivatives" because they dont want another musician to use it. So do people actually understand what they mean by such statements. Do these statements mean anything at all in law?

So it seems to me none of these statements apart from "Public Domain" necessarily tell you much, if you are looking for music and sound samples for your videos. So it would seem sensible to ask permission. But of course that not always possible in advance. You might not know a video or film is going to be worth publishing in any form until you've inversted a huge amount of time and effort into doing it and finishing it at which point. If you were denied permission to use material it could be disasterous.

So I wonder myself whether any of these definitions arpart from public domain actually mean anything at all in law. It's not easy to assess to what degree an artistic project which uses elements of 3rd party content is done as "art for art sake" or whether commerial gain was the primary motivation. That's why courts of law and lawers exist. So this definition of "non commercial" could be regarded as essentially meaningless.

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Poster:	brewster	Date:	March 19, 2007 08:41:31am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Creative Commons draft take on non-commercial use

Jamie Boyle helpfully pointed me at Creative Commons draft take on non-commercial use.

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/DiscussionDraftNonCommercial_Guidelines

I have not read it over yet, but I will and urge others to as well.

-brewster

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Poster:	poptart13	Date:	March 23, 2007 08:51:46pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

my question is this: can a website be considered for non-commercial use and ask for donations to help with the upkeep?

(if i need to be more specific i can, this was just a thought that popped into my brain while reading this string)

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Poster:	proveedor de hosting en colombia	Date:	April 19, 2007 07:33:09am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: What is Non-Commercial Use?

I think the article is messing the things up, one thing is release your work for others non-commercial use, different to make a business plan (for profit) based on release materials that other people may use for non-commercial use.

You concede rights to other people to use your materials for no profit, you DON'T renounce to your rights to use your works in the way you consider appropiate.

By the other hand, if you allow access (through website by instance) to materials released for non-commercial use, you agree that you will not make a profit selling that materials, you will make a profit from other sources (selling ads, selling stuff, services, etc), you don't agree to not make any profit at all.

the point is that there is no only one use of the non commercial licence, one is the use the author does, other the use the common person does, and other different thing is the use the provider to non-commercial materials does.

And ALL of them are important to the development of the culture based on sharing works to other people.

but I agree the most conflictive use is the one made by the provider, there is a lot of profit in allow people to share and enjoy other people works.

Regards,