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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 2:51pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Reviews of late... |
Okay, now that I am done defending my orificia, I would like to turn our attention to reviews of 9-19-70. I don't want ANYONE to feel bad as to my opinion of their review, BUT truly ask, are there any number of DS's out there that beat this one? Clearly, folks think so...I for one do not. It is the only one that I have played for non Heads in which they have replied, "this is the first Dark Star I could listen to" and so on...given it falls within my "era," you have to trust me on the fact that I have conducted this experiment dozens of times.
Anyway, just had to get that off my chest.
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Poster:
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light into ashes |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 3:17am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Dark Star rundown |
Did someone call my name?
I can see how a lover of '69/70 Dark Stars can feel that the '72/73 variety gets too slow, too meandering....the psychedelic energy transmutes into a jazzy trippiness, the storms of feedback relax into trickles of stardust. The '69 Dead burst with sparkles; the '73 Dead ooze through the dimensions. Hard to compare.
The 9/19/70 Star is definitely one of my favorites, but it's very difficult to rank them. 1/2/70 is right up there, in fact most the Stars from Jan/Feb are pretty glorious; and that's not even mentioning the Stars of 4/24, 9/17, 11/5 & 11/8, which most people wouldn't rank the same way due to the AUD quality.
1969 has so many Stars it's tough even to pick a top five, but aside from the Live Dead version, 3/1, 4/22, 4/27, 6/27, 7/7, 8/30, and 11/2 speak very loudly, and that's leaving out some of my favorites like 11/7, 8/23, 5/31, and so many from early in the year.....
All the '71 Stars are really sweet, with 10/24 and 10/31 especially so. The jamming is on a new level with Keith aboard in the fall versions, and sometimes they stick a country tune or two into the Star just to surprise folks.
But in '72 we get back to the big versions - 4/8, 4/14, 4/24, 4/29, 5/25, 7/18, these are some serious mindblowers, just to pick a few from the first half of the year.
In the fall of '72 the Stars slow down and mellow out some more; they get more intricate & subtle. 8/27 is actually not one of my favorites from this period, which is probably just due to not hearing it right; the September Stars stand out a bit more for me, and 9/21 and 10/18 are probably the ones I hear the most. But 11/13 is the most stunning of them all.
In '73 the Stars keep getting more massive & heavy. 11/11 and 12/6 are the clear winners here, but there's a whole galaxy of brightness in this year with Stars like 2/26, 3/16, 3/28, 6/24, 8/1, 10/19, and 10/30 among others. One thing that happens a few times this year is that after a smooth, teasing first half of a Star, suddenly after the vocals Phil will take over with his soloing and the rest of the band drops out; 2/15 would be a good example of this kind of Star.
The Stars in '74 become looser, more abstract, and more infrequent; my favorites are 2/24, 9/10, and 10/18.
Okay, that was my two cents.
This post was modified by light into ashes on 2007-11-17 11:17:35
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 7:23am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Dark Star rundown |
Well said; thanks. I know we have had Tiger and BD provide us with great detail on the five (?) phases of DS, and think that is an important point (variation complicates comparison).
Cool.
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Poster:
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JamminJerome |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 8:52pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
I was the most recent person to not give the show 5 stars and claim that there are better Dark Stars out there, so I suppose this is calling me out. In a nice and polite way, though.
Anyway, my opinion towards this Dark Star and this entire show in general may be simply because I just wasn't feeling this show when I was listening to it. This was my second listen and both times I had trouble getting into it. It may have just been my mood. I wasn't in a bad mood, but maybe just not in the mood for that show. On a different day, perhaps it would have struck me differently. That happens a lot, even to the most impartial of us, I'm sure.
And better Dark Stars? There may not be a ton, but right off the top of my head I would say 2/27/69 and 8/27/72. A closer look at my notes reveals particular love for 3/23/73, but I'm less sure of that date than the other two. There are a number of others that are equals in my opinion, but I would want to relisten to them before naming any dates in particular. I don't have the time to do that in the near future (although that does sound tempting...several hours of nothing but Dark Stars? man...that would be quite a trip).
It's also very possible that I was simply disappointed. I had heard so much good stuff about the show, and it's been years since I last listened to it. I was expecting to be completely blown away and I wasn't. I loved the show but went in with too many expectations. My loss, I guess.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 7:20am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Hey JJ--didn't mean it that way at all; truth be told, I noticed it first when another person that used to post here posted a review of the show...BUT, I did just see yours-NO WORRIES!
I am always surprised by the differences we all have on this sort of trivia...somehow, I can't get around my wrong headed thinking that given we all agree they are the best band, why don't we agree that the songs I think are the best versions are the best?
Anyhow--just keeps us talking, so that's a good thing.
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Poster:
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JamminJerome |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 7:32am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Hey, there are no worries at all, WT! These kinds of debates are healthy and very informative in many cases. I now have a whole bunch of nice Dark Stars to listen to because of lightintoashes's post!
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Poster:
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AshesRising |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 11:17pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
11/11/73 (with headphones) ...to hear that group of musicians basically having a conversation while composing is just.... I don't know what to say ....it is [ ].
--- AshesRising
..and, WT, my friend, that is not to put down your choice at all; it just happens to be the Dark Star that pours its Light into Ashes.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 1:02pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Thanks Ashes; been returning to Hunter (and all the disks you sent me!) of late...always a revelation.
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Poster:
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L.A. Women |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:12pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
mann there is plenty of stars as good as this one
1-2-70 for instance
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-01-02.early-late.sbd.cotsman.18120.sbeok.shnf
those with the attention span of a child might not be able to fully embrace its beauty, as there is a space segment which is practically nothing but dead air in the middle. but the jamming that comes out of the space portion is so beautiful it will make grown men cry.
This post was modified by L.A. Women on 2007-11-17 02:12:32
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:15pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
That is a good one, but quality is not top notch, at least on my version. However, listen to the last 12 minutes of this one...it will change your mind, I think.
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Poster:
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mcgannahan |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:47pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
yeah, if it's not too much trouble. you are too kind, will. i would offer some 68-70 shows for you, but i'm sure you have what i got already, which isn't that much, because i've only started bit torrents a few months ago.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 7:45pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Don't worry about it...one problem, which is my downfall: I labeled them (very briefly), which is a no-no in the trading community for many...I am just too in the habit for the friends and family and do it automatically. You can rip the WAVs (all four disks) and redo as you see fit if that's a problem.
Put in 9-19-70, both Avalon shows (10-12/13-68; Miller upgrades via Arbuthnot of course) and one of my favorite first sets, that of 6-7-70 (semi acoustic).
Just be sure to let me (us) know how you like them, especially the debated DS of 9-19.
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Poster:
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L.A. Women |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 9:08pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
the Dark Star > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Turn On Your Lovelight portion is excellent sound quality check out it out again. how this would go unnoticed is beyond me, easily top 5 of 1970
Subject: Acquired Taste...
This show is an acquired taste. I've listened to some great Dark Stars in my time...this is probably the most unique. About 10 minutes of alien sounds....mostly silence - engulfs the beginning of the jam inbetween verses. BUT - once they come out of the trance....it is probably one of the HOTTEST jams i have ever heard the dead play PERIOD
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-01-02.early-late.sbd.cotsman.18120.sbeok.shnf
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 1:00pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Just grabbed it; not sure what is up with my version, but will give it a listen. Might have been I misapplied my label ("poor quality/hiss") due to other songs, and have neglected the suite as a result.
Thanks for sticking with it.
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Poster:
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hot multiposter on multiposter action |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 7:22am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
did you mention grown men cryin? be careful. nacho&chokey will be on you like stink on shit.
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Poster:
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skuzzlebutt |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 7:10pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
There may be better Dark Stars, but not many. I'm in agreement with you in that I feel people tend to sell this DS short. One of the things I like best about this version is that it never seems to falter, handling even the edgiest twists and turns with grace, always vibrant but never sounding forced...ultimately, it never loses momentum, and thus stands as one of the most "confident" versions I've ever heard.
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Poster:
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Speaking in Swords |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 10:32am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
The 9/19/70 Dark Star is one of my favorites, definitely in my top 3. I agree that it's super tight and focused, something you don't find with many Stars.
I can't really comment on whether there are "better" Stars because those from other periods ('72-'73, for example) are just very different. But this one is up there for me with other monsters from this period, like 2/13/70 and 11/8/69.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 10:38am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Cool; perhaps I underestimated the appreciation for this one. Thanks for chiming in.
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Poster:
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Toadsmoker |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 3:25pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Hey, Cliff Pucker cause your exit is the size of a goofer hole........I didn't even review this show.
By the way, Jerry hated tomatoes.
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Poster:
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hot multiposter on multiposter action |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 7:44am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
funny. you didnt reveiw the show but you knew what the cliff was talking about. can we just call you rekoms2daot?
lets rejoice. 2 days without our new biaaaatch chico. nacho&chokey is on his weekend retreat in the pokey. ankle grabbers delite.
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Poster:
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Toadsmoker |
Date:
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Nov 18, 2007 2:39pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
what ?.....referencing Puckers exit resembling a gopher hole ?.......of course you should know due to all of your multiposting. Get a life. smil2es' comment/reviews are stated, so let it be. smil2es retired to the library apperently.
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Poster:
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mcgannahan |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 4:51pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
i need to get a lossless copy of that one. i'm listening to 4/21/69. have 4/23, and i'm downloading 4/22 as i type. amazing 3 nights of 69 dead. i could never pinpoint just one darkstar as a favorite, but i'll definitely put that on my official " dark stars to listen to before i die" list.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:14pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Good.
This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-11-17 02:14:33
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Poster:
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mcgannahan |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 5:50pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
thanks will
This post was modified by mcgannahan on 2007-11-17 01:50:57
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:06pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Will throw in the Miller upgrades of the October Avalon shows if you like.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 7:58pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Cool.
This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-11-17 03:58:52
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Poster:
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Arbuthnot |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 6:13pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Ark upgrades on the way ... with other
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 12:58pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
That is great news...still enjoying passing on the gems you have so kindly sent my way. So hard to believe these could get better, but nice to find some have; keeps me busy reanalyzing my beloved three years (68-70). Cannot imagine how you all keep up with 10 or more years of the boys to obsess over--it would wear me out.
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Poster:
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estim8edI's |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 5:19am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
but he loved Tang.
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Poster:
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CatherwoodTirebiter |
Date:
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Nov 22, 2007 12:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
All astronauts love Tang.
This post was modified by CatherwoodTirebiter on 2007-11-22 20:18:40
Please don't send me snotty kid stuff hate mail. I'm old and grey and don't care what people think about me anymore. I also had the pleasure of working for these guys and as such, feel like I earned the right to say pretty much whatever I want to here.
This post was modified by CatherwoodTirebiter on 2007-11-22 20:19:04
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Poster:
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Max Chorak |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 5:20pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
If you fast forward about 2 years the (i'm not sure if you were asking for pre 72) 8/27/72 is a Dark Star that is an audio supernova (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova this is how the DS affects -me-) that leads the listener through a journey that moves from the Dark to the Light. As Joseph Campbell said, "They are transcendent to the transcendental," and this song fits the same description. It's a fun one, it's wedged in my rotation list almost once a week. They have the whole video on youtube too! it's a goood copy too.. better than the SSDD DVD I feel.
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=5030759Sometimes I watch it too :P It's my absolute favourite DS. When I listen to it I play every note in my head simultaneously with the music. Phil is throwing out nasties, and Weir has the psychedelic chops going, and (I really do like it better without Mickey.. but don't hate me) Billy K. is drumming his ass off.
My vote for best Dark Star ever, hands down.
There are some that come close though..
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2007 8:53pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
Thanks, Max--yeah, I have this one...someone directed me to it from here over a year ago. Somehow, the 72 and 73 versions wander a bit too much for me; they don't seem to have the energy and focus I am looking for. Not sure how to describe it. But, I recognize I'm in the minority--was just surprised that as impressive as I find the 70 version that folks feel there are many ahead of it. I'll try to keep an open mind.
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Poster:
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Max Chorak |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2007 8:59am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Reviews of late... |
I agree, the 72-73 ones get spacy and dissonant.. Renaissance Fairgrounds stays pretty centralized though, until the meltdown at the end that is. A lot of the 68-70 DS's are pretty fierce, with a lot of tight jamming
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