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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 10, 2007 2:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Steal This Book

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_this_Book 1st paragraph "Steal This Book" is a book written by Abbie Hoffman in 1970 and published in 1971. It includes advice on such topics as growing marijuana, starting a pirate radio station, living in a commune, stealing food, shoplifting, stealing credit cards, preparing a legal defense, making pipe bombs, and obtaining a free buffalo from the U.S. Department of the Interior. It discusses various tactics of fighting as well as giving a detailed list of affordable and easy ways to find weapons and armor that can be used in the event of a confrontation with law enforcement. The book advocates rebelling against authority in all forms, governmental and corporate. On the success of the book, Hoffman was quoted as saying, "It's embarrassing when you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the Best Seller's List." and today, if asked how to enjoy the music, Abbie would have said ZtreeWin ans to rastamon = never been there, done that... did spend a year in San Luis Obispo, slo-town in the late 70s. magical.
This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2007-12-10 22:29:32

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Poster: chops11 Date: Dec 10, 2007 5:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Abbie Hoffman would then also be the person responsible for the Dead, who asked to not have their SBD shows downloadable, pulling their recordings from the archive.

If you want to provide that information, that's fine, just don't do it here. Having directions on how to do it alongside the recordings WILL result in the music no longer being able to be hosted here.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Dec 10, 2007 2:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Monte....oh hell, I'll ask since I've only known one Monte.
Did you ever engrave signs at the Alameda Co Fair?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 11, 2007 2:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

It's like there's a naughty ghost around here. I read little spurts of "don't say that on here", or "hee, hee" over there. Not to mention all the whining about "I can't save, wish I could". Nobody ever says a word. I've been wanting to discuss this for 6 months. Please, it's not about me. I've read some hate-mail posts on reviews of Dead shows on LMA, about Bobby going commercial, selling out. "VLB>Otherone" writes about this: http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-08-16.sbd.cotsman.15205.sbeok.shnf "Ozzhead, what happened with the downloads is that Bobby fucking Wier is the greediest of the band members, and he decided that until he's dead (and can receive no more royalties) no Dead-taped audio can be downloaded for free. Hey Bobby! Remember Woodstock? Remember the reason that the revolution was started? Money makes you a dick!" I'm not up to speed on this. Sorry. Honestly, I'm afraid to look at the greed factor. My problem is I love the music, and the boys... and I love hanging out with the bands, musicians and other music lovers. Jerry's gone is what I know. 30 yrs of bliss with the Dead. I have so many mixed emotions on this. None of which is about the super-job and excellent efforts clearly being made by LMA and etree. I'm honored to be here. When I see the music "sounding bad", I fix it, is what I do. It's my nature. 30 years of doing this stuff. I think you're a good guy, chops11. I've been using LMA for a year. Btw, I wouldn't have had much of a life this year without LMA, etree, GD, String Cheese, Leftover Salmon, Sam Bush and others. When I speak here, it is with a certainty that I am on hallowed ground. After dealing with Microsoft antics for all these years, I guessed that the "saving" issues was an equipment problem. Plenty of folks on this forum (and the Dead's) help others find and save shows all the time, etc. I've been a taper and trader since 1973. I did sound work for several bands in the 70s and 80s. I worked years for Ampex. Who do you think started Alembic, and got Phil's bass sounding incredible? An audio engineer working at Ampex, named Ron Wickersham. I saw the Dead 25 times in '73. Taped some of those shows myself. Now "you guys" are my heroes. I still think we could use some better info. We just wanna be clear. I wanna remain proud of how I help out here. I don't like being made to feel "dirty" about my love affair with life, and the music of life... or even using 420 to help quell insomnia and anxiety. I'm into sustainable life on Earth for all. Thanks. I don't think paying $500 or $1000 to see the Stones is the answer. ***edited for clarity*** What I'm seeing here is that LMA is THE PORTAL into etree. From there, etree threads into explanatory layers. It goes on from there, including links to many websites for Bands. I'm also seeing the "Welcome to the Live Music Archive" statement, right here on the top of LMA HomePage. I'm seeing the Dead's statement in their section -- linked to from LMA HomePage. Seems to me, if you're The Live Music Portal -- and according to my Browser -- you certainly are the portal to all this music, that Archive-dot-org should be the same experience for me as when I go to my Public Library. Point is simple. When I go to my public library, I don't get hit with a bunch of legal issues at the front door, or portal. I see rows of books, section by section, floor by floor. Even multi-media stuff. I see rows of KVMs for public Internet, even access to LMA. And all of it is "take-out". I also want to maintain Net Neutrality. On a personal note, I think a guy like me was bound to come along and speak up here. Probably already has.
This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2007-12-11 22:15:45

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Dec 11, 2007 10:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

This archive is fine, if I wanna listen to music. Don't ask us if you can, or how to download those streams here. "We know nuzzing", as sergeant Schultz used to say.

I can think of three places to download Grateful Dead SBDs on the internet. These don't even include the deluge of MP-3 and WMA sites offering lossy formats. And there is a 4th one too; but I don't go there cuz it's just too clubby for my tastes.

It's too late to try and stop the back channel distribution of Grateful Dead concerts, wether Bobby (the dick) Weir likes it or not,. We just aren't doing it here.

The thieves are very active on EBAY. Some of the concerts once found on this archive are selling for $100.00 each on their pirate's market. One crook was selling copies of that ratty sounding Deer Creek 7/2/95 "monitor mix" for 75 bucks each.

EBAY is full of phoney imports that don't even exist. It can't be any more illegal than this fraudulent scheme. These are the kind of copyright offenses that usually result in federal prison terms. Weir doesn't demand that all of his music be removed from another site heavily used by the criminals. He goes off on archive.org instead of confronting his real problems on servers in San Jose...



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Poster: Olo Date: Dec 12, 2007 4:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Are you saying that you believe you can legally (and morally) make full complete copies of the books. films and music you check out at the public library?
You might want to ask your head librarian about that.
You also might want to look at every book, cd and film inside the library. All of them have expressly written that no copying is allowed.
Your public library is really more like streaming.

Btw, Abbie loved selling his many books. They all had price tags and went through the usual distribution and retail channels. He could have freely handed out mimeographs of all of his work but he did not. He had a literary agent who signed him to contracts and deals. For money.
Get real.

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Poster: glenn Date: Jan 30, 2008 11:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down...

Call me Ishmael...

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

When I read a book, I keep it, if its really good. It stays in my brain. I can replay it any time I want. Of course my brain isn't as reliable as a hard drive.

But its as portable as a cd.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 12, 2007 1:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Thanks for jumping in the discussion, Olo and cousinkix1953. Olo, I really appreciate you bringing up your viewpoint. What I want "is" this discussion... and some info dissemination, is all. Should the librarian post a sign on the Public Library front door? "Look at every book, cd and film inside the library. All of them have expressly written that no copying is allowed. Your public library is really more like streaming." Maybe so. What is a "keeper"? Does the librarian make you empty your mind of the book you just read, when you bring it back to the public library? Public library is built with public money. Not like a commercial book store or ebay or amazon dot com. I think when TV and cable first began televising the sport of boxing, the impact on the sport was immediate and enormous. Zillions more people started going to see the fights. It was win-win for all, regardless of your opinion about VCRs. Trade-friendly bands and their audiences know all about this.

I did take the opportunity to also mention Net Neutrality. One day soon, even if Bobby gives all of GD's shns away for free on Internet servers -- along with the other 2600 bands on LMA -- we may all have to pay hugely for this music anyway, via a "fee" to get on the Internet fast lane. Otherwise, when not in net-neutrality environment -- and not on a toll-lane hi-speed -- you can forget about getting even the opening-tune to any show. You'll probably get nothin' but ubiquitous endless ads, commercials, infomercials, spam, viruses, spy bots, phishing, and NSA eavesdropping. The material you want will always be at the back of the line. That's why I jumped in here. I think we're reduced to "get it while the gettin' is good." It's pathetic, is what I think. All of us.

I think having this discussion is needed. It is healthy for sustainable life on Earth. I think it's all connected. Woodstock epitomized sustainable living. Live Music and the Grateful Dead were at ground zero. Now what? News media all sold-out and corrupted, putting out lies and propaganda, pushing phony war on terror, and drum-beating for illegal war. Global warming and extreme climate change. Net Neutrality. Healthcare as a human right. Democracy by the People, of the People, for the People. Capitalism should benefit Democracy and freedom. Not benefit fascism, financed by a State-run, no-holds-barred free-enterprise zone. At the time Abbie was writing his book, Jerry Garcia was saying, "Make love and listen to our music. Don't make war in Viet Nam." If Abbie wrote his book today, he'd have been labelled a terrorist by George W. Bush. He'd be in Gitmo, being water-boarded and tortured. If Abbie had mentioned using ZtreeWin to get the music, then the neo-cons would use this as an excuse to round up everyone that has anything to do with LMA. Probably have to build some extermination camps next. Lock up Ralph Nader indefinitely. Shoot pot smokers on sight. Anybody see what Bush did to Maher Arar? I think you're right, Olo. "Get real."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

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Poster: Olo Date: Dec 13, 2007 4:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

"Does the librarian make you empty your mind of the book you just read, when you bring it back to the public library?"

That is just nonsensical and does nothing to advance this discussion.

"Public library is built with public money."

Most of the items in your public library are donated by the publishers, artists, creators. If the public starts duplicating and disseminating these materials en masse
The shelves would begin to empty.

"I think when TV and cable first began televising the sport of boxing, the impact on the sport was immediate and enormous."

Most championship boxing is Pay Per View and has been for years. Still, even back in the fifties Sports broadcasts had disclaimers with prohibitions on unlawful distribution and proclamations of ownership, copyrights and trademarks.
Also, television isn't free whatsoever and never was. Advertisers pay huge sums for content and airtime.


"Trade-friendly bands and their audiences know all about this."

The Grateful Dead is still very much a trade friendly band.
Thousands of shows are on LMA for download (auds) as well as dozens of other sites (sbds and auds.) You really should target your rationalization toward E-Trade Unfriendly bands like Hot Tuna (Who never condoned e trading and have now disallowed even audience taping) and The Allman Brothers (Only snail mail trades of audience tapes) Jorma and Gregg actually represent 99.9% of all recording artists' intent.

Weir's (and really everyone within the GD family..trust me) issue is with LMA's onestop 24/7 shop of the bands own recordings (done with their equipment, crew (HI Kidd!) and money)


"I think we're reduced to "get it while the gettin' is good." It's pathetic, is what I think. All of us."

Pathetic..maybe. Still, if you realize this, why not at least be sly?

"At the time Abbie was writing his book, Jerry Garcia was saying, 'Make love and listen to our music. Don't make war in Viet Nam.'"

I think you would be hard pressed finding JG speaking out about Viet Nam anywhere let alone your quotation. Source?

"If Abbie wrote his book today, he'd have been labelled a terrorist by George W. Bush. He'd be in Gitmo, being water-boarded and tortured. If Abbie had mentioned using ZtreeWin to get the music, then the neo-cons would use this as an excuse to round up everyone that has anything to do with LMA. Probably have to build some extermination camps next. Lock up Ralph Nader indefinitely. Shoot pot smokers on sight.

If you feel this strongly The GD's (and many, many others)policy of not letting their soundboards be freely downloaded on LMA should be the least of your concerns. I hope you are an activist. This world needs more than typewritten words.


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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 13, 2007 2:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

American National Biography
http://www.anb.org/articles/18/18-03430.html

"Garcia's nonconformist, utopian vision of total independence and freedom (in mind and body) appealed to "hippies" and other young people who denounced the Vietnam war, monogamy, parental or authoritarian guidance, formal education, and conformist jobs."

"Thousands of Deadheads followed the band and Garcia wherever they went, mostly because of the freedom of their music; the concerts' liberal, party-like atmospheres; and Garcia and Weir's socially conscious focus on performing benefit concerts to help charitable organizations. They gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to causes such as the Vietnam Veterans Project, Cultural Survival, Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network (the band's major preoccupation), AIDS research, the Egyptian Department of Antiquities, and the Faith and Hope Society for the Handicapped."

"As their fame grew, so did the band's wealth. After a nine-concert series at New York's Madison Square Garden in June 1988, the gross receipts totaled $3,768,244, and by the end of 1989 Forbes estimated the band earned $12.5 million annually."

Garcia and the Dead are clearly documented as being ani-war and against the Viet Nam war. Jerry has been filmed countless times taking this position. The list is huge. We can all search and find it. Many of these films have been telecast recently: "Tom Brokaw 1968", on History Channel; "Summer of Love", American Masters on PBS, quoted below.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/love/program/

Jerry Garcia: "What we're thinking about is a peaceful planet, we're not thinking of anything else. We're not thinking about any kind of power. We're not thinking about any of those kinds of struggles. We're not thinking about revolution or war or any of that. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life and think about moving the whole human race ahead a step."

I feel strongly about our situation here Olo. Whose binary files are these? What is a file? Who runs my computer and my audio gear? A bunch of 3rd party software thugs? Why does pro-audio software cost so damn much money for musicians? No wonder some of these bands need to charge lots of money, or go broke quickly instead. String Cheese, Leftover Salmon, Yonder Mtn String Band, Bela Fleck & Flecktones and their audiences set the example well on etree and LMA. They blow me away! The Dead and their variant bands are in the middle of it all. Other bands -- hey Mick, that means you -- are over the top with greed. And bs too. Mick Jagger, the rebel. Bullshit! Guy takes a knight-hood from a head of state in England. Crap! Then Tony Blair hooks up with George W Bush, and they commit the biggest crime against humanity in the 21st century -- illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Oil goes from $30 to $95 a barrel. Corporations and big shareholders get filthy-rich. Torture is legalized. International law is disgraced. Blackwater Worldwide forms a huge private army for profit, working for George W Bush, kills lots of people illegally in Iraq, even has brutal thug squads in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina.

If you wanna hold me to a scientific certainty here with sources... please, then you should be held to the same standard. Maybe you can scientifically disprove what I'm saying. What about Net Neutrality? What about our News and Entertainment Media (and Internet) being owned by 5 or 6 corporations, all sold-out, pure propaganda for profit? Free Enterprise rules, period? What about ignoring severe Climate Change and Global Warming? Isn't Health Care a given right for all of us, at least in the USA? What about all the push for profit, profit, profit -- no holds barred? What is it Bill Maher says? "New Rules." Oh yeah, ABC-TV (Walt Disney) knocked Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" off the air. NBC (General Electric) knocked Phil Donahue off MSNBC (General Electric and Microsoft). Now all we have is mostly lies and propaganda, except for Amy Goodman and Bill Moyers.

I think it should be what Jerry says above, "We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life and think about moving the whole human race ahead a step." We know about other bands charging fees. I already mentioned seeing the Stones for $1000 is bs. What about illegal war in Iraq, crimes against humanity, torture, locking people up indefinitely (no lawyer, no family visits, never going to court to hear charges against you)? What about sustainable life on Earth? Where are we going? Why? How come everyone is working like a slave these days? Being treated like one, too. Healthcare system evaporating.

So I've been saying... We have a wonderful bright place here, thanks to etree and LMA, and the bands, musicians and their audiences, friends, etc... and people like myself. I'm exactly like etree. I read their bio's. Been using LMA for a year. I've watched gdlive-dot-com morph during this time. I could swear I was getting lots of MP3s and SHNs there. Gone. I did stop by dead-dot-net, and purchased 2 t-shirts for $55. I thought whoever was getting the money were good folk, and I should pitch in... nice t-shirts too. Lots of ways for bands, musicians, and their families to make a living, without tainting hallowed ground -- that being the most free form of live music interactivity.

I don't want to see etree and LMA wind up like another experience with Microsoft. Big enterprise takes over. Starts telling everybody, "Work this way, like this, like that. Don't do this. Don't do that." Stuff starts getting crippled quickly. Everything gets unstable, unreliable. Nothing works worth a shit pretty soon. Have to start buying more stuff right and left. Filling up landfills with e-waste. Pretty soon the Stones are running another PR advertising campaign for Microsoft again, on every cable and TV channel. Steve Jobs and Apple are not helping cost controls either. Nike sets the worst example. Something like 500 or 600 per cent profit is the new benchmark. When is enough profit enough?

3 points, Olo:

a) " television isn't free whatsoever and never was". Last time I looked, when using applied physics and materials in the Einstein universe, emf energy resonates naturally at TV, Radio, Microwave, and Satellite frequencies and bandwidths. Are you saying somebody "owns" this stuff? Just 'cause Monsanto is getting away with patenting genes (amazing to me!), doesn't make it so. How can you "own" land? You can own a title or deed to it, is all. Maybe put a fence around it. Does Microsoft get to enforce "live, and let live"?

b) what do you mean by, "why not at least be sly"? I'd like to be. I was thinkin' LMA forum and archive-dot-org was ground zero for "village square". Hope readers appreciate the respect I have for archive-dot-org.

c) "This world needs more than typewritten words." I agree 100 per cent. Let's form a grass-roots movement. I think we're both chipping in right here. People ought to think before they act. Make informed decisions based on the Truth and the relevant facts. Get their facts from the News Media? Big Problem. How can our Democracy flourish without a functioning news media? The same corporations own the Internet. Okay, now act. Keep access to LMA and etree in a Net Neutrality world. People doing that are people who believe in sustainable life on Earth. Jerry Garcia, Grateful Dead, Woodstock, Live Music, LMA, Net Neutrality, Viet Nam, illegal War in Iraq, torture, denial of Climate Change... it's all connected. Is this sustainable, what's going on now?

Btw, Jerry's widow, Deborah Koons Garcia, made an excellent film in 2004 that documents how genetically engineered foods -- Genetically Modified Organisms -- slipped into our food supply. We're now eating "Franken-Food". What's for dinner next? Soylent Green? Come on people, let's get a real movement going. Read about Garcia's film here:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge/garcia110804.cfm

Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 13, 2007 2:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

DEBORAH KOONS CAN FUCK OFF http://www.doyourownwill.com/garcia.asp [think she lived up to Jer's written wishes re Keelin and other matters?]
This post was modified by bluedevil on 2007-12-13 22:30:57

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 10, 2007 6:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

Here's the absolute facts about music distribution, chops11. Crystal clear to me. Music Files on here "are" keepers.
**********
1) "Welcome to the Live Music Archive. etree.org is a community committed to providing the highest quality live concerts in a lossless, downloadable format. The Internet Archive has teamed up with etree.org to preserve and archive as many live concerts as possible for current and future generations to enjoy. All music in this Collection is from trade-friendly artists and is strictly noncommercial, both for access here and for any further distribution. Artists' commercial releases are off-limits. This collection is maintained by the etree.org community."

2) "STATEMENT TO MP3 SITE OPERATORS
The Grateful Dead and our managing organizations have long encouraged the purely non-commercial exchange of music taped at our concerts and those of our individual members. That a new medium of distribution has arisen - digital audio files being traded over the Internet - does not change our policy in this regard. Our stipulations regarding digital distribution are merely extensions of those long-standing principles and they are as follow:"

"No commercial gain may be sought by websites offering digital files of our music, whether through advertising, exploiting databases compiled from their traffic, or any other means. All participants in such digital exchange acknowledge and respect the copyrights of the performers, writers and publishers of the music. This notice should be clearly posted on all sites engaged in this activity. We reserve the ability to withdraw our sanction of non-commercial digital music should circumstances arise that compromise our ability to protect and steward the integrity of our work."
**********
Am I missing something here? Notices are "clearly posted" on here. What is it about "etree.org is a community committed to providing the highest quality live concerts in a lossless, downloadable format", "both for access here and for any further distribution" that I didn't understand? To me, downloadable means "keeper" in this context. I "respect the copyrights of the performers, writers and publishers of the music" in the Dead's statement. "No commercial gain" here. How many countless times, in the most reviewed and loved shows on the LMA, have we read about poor listeners left bleeding, wanting to save the music, but didn't know how? So I thought about it... for quite awhile. Just 'cause everyone ignores them, doesn't make the problem go away. So I stepped up to the plate as a warm-hearted nice guy and as a freedom fighter. I wrote a helpful primer, and was censored. Didn't do a thing wrong. I'm not a shareholder, or copyright holder, or a profiteer, or a thief. I'm just a music lover like the "bio's" for the etree guys. Exactly the same, no more, no less. And I know how to read the policy carefully. We all just wanna be with our music, is all! That's exactly what "trade friendly artists" means to me. Playing downloaded keepers on your computer also frees up bandwidth on the Internet for others to use. Takes some of the pressure off the LMA or etree during outages, like the one we're having these weeks. Otherwise, somebody change the language at the top of LMA Homepage, and the Dead homepage, so we're not confused about anything. If the Dead we're playin' free in your town next week, I'd be the 1st one on horn tellin' everyone. Is there something secretive going on here that I need to know about? My name is Monte. I'm a music lover.

Reply [edit]

Poster: chops11 Date: Dec 11, 2007 5:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Steal This Book

The statement does not apply to the Dead SBD recordings. If you noticed, they aren't hosted in a lossless format or downloadable. They asked that the SBD recordings be streamable only. Here is the FAQ about it: About Grateful Dead concerts on the Archive Audience-made Grateful Dead concert recordings are available as downloads while available soundboards are accessible in streaming format only. The Grateful Dead is being separated from the Live Music Archive into its own collection (with its own forum) to avoid confusion about lossless availability. The metadata and reviews for shows and recordings, even those not available for regular download, will remain available for those who maintain direct links. No filesets have been deleted from the Archive; certain items are simply not public now. Prior to our completing the changes, text files are easily referenced at a separate database. At this time, the Grateful Dead collection is not open to public uploads. The Grateful Dead Internet Archive Project (GDIAP) will continue its direct management of this collection for the time being. As far as we know, there has been no change to standard GD fan trading. It is common for bands to have policies that differ between fan trading, versus archiving here.. ------ I will see about putting a statement on the GD main page. Please don't think i'm telling you this out of spite, I'd like to download the shows just as much as you. However, this is what has to be done so that we can continue to keep the GD SBD shows according to the agreement made with the band.
This post was modified by chops11 on 2007-12-11 13:21:43