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Poster: | turnphilup | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 1:49pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
http://www.vanityfair.com/style/features/2009/05/bohemian-grove200905
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:32pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: One more time |
So, not taking any stand one way or the other, but the forests and "old growth" discussions are for a completely different set of biotic communities. The redwoods, strictly speaking, in CA, OR & WA are far less fire evolved than chaparral, and exposed to it less as well. The interior Yellow Pine/Ponderosa pine forests are a different subject altogether. But again, not as adapted as the Chaparral.
It is a fact that fire suppression in all three communities has been "bad" if you view natural as "good" (ie, in chap, coast fores, and inter fores). Cattlegrazing has been esp bad for inter fores as coupled with suppression it has created a very different community that burns badly, however you defn bad.
But, there is no easy way out, no simple approach for all of these communities.
However, when someone builds a home in coastal chaparral, in a wind swept canyon on a steep slope, do you think for one minute they deserve anything other than a pat on the back when their two million dollar home is vaporized? Much less the risk of life for those attempting to save it/them?
Sorry, back on the soap box...my bad.
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Poster: | tunaman | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 5:37am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 25, 2009 6:56am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
The folks I read below are contributing to a discussion of 1) what is the natural role of fire in plant communities?, 2) who are the Bohemites and why are the peeing on Redwoods?, 3) why are Bobby and Mickey hanging with a bunch of conservative wackos?, and 4)how should old growth forest be managed?
Whatever your take on the above issues, it is reasonable that you could live in a stick house...even if you were anti-logging you could be FOR tree farms under certain conditions.
As an example, I am for the complete removal of cattle from ALL arid land grazing allotments in the western US, and yet eat beef with glee. They should come from feedlots in Dire's backyard--er, Nebraska or whatever--but not Public Land.
No conflict there, same logic for wood cutting...
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Poster: | boltman | Date: | Apr 27, 2009 7:38am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
My reading of the main article that started the post was a indictment of members of The Dead for associating with folks whose political and perhaps, ethical values as regards "old growth" don't match the public perception regarding what The Dead should believe in. A number of forumites backed that up with their posts regarding a "sell out" of what they believed to be values that should be held by The Dead and that in some form or another, if Jerry was still here, he would disapprove.
I replied to the original post in a "drive by" attempt to point out that simplistic views of complex issues rarely resolves them. Of course, I presented my view simplistically, guaranteeing that it was invalid! I still think there are issues regarding "old growth" v "managed forests" that skirt the line of ethical or aesthetic, that may speak to the same belief system as whether cattle should be allowed to graze in arid lands or not. In other words, is an old growth forest inherently more valuable on an ethical or aesthetic level than a managed timber forest.
Hopefully this added some clarity...cheers all!
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Poster: | Earl B. Powell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:00pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:07pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | angular | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:24pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | Earl B. Powell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:24pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | dead-head_Monte | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 11:41am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
a few more facts please
letter to Bob Weir - July, 1998 Vanity Fair's Alex Shoumatoff - mug shotarrested at Bohemian Grove hiding behind redwood tree
Weir and Hart are camping, bunking and sleeping with the enemy (Bush, Rumsfeld, Kissinger, etc). Are these 2 idiots getting behind torture, illegal wars, and crimes against humanity? I was shocked by this news. I just called and spoke with Mary Moore in Calif. She wrote to Bob in July, 1998. Mary and I agree that this issue is much more about sustainable living and peace on Earth than it is about old growth forests. And how the hell can Mickey get behind Julia Butterfly on one hand, then do this on the other? I am struggling with this. It's a hard pill to swallow. I disagree with Earl. Jerry's use of a few pieces of lumber have little to do with hanging out with these criminals. Bob defends himself in this article. "I walk the talk. I work for the community, and the community works for me. It's been that way for 40-some years now, and it hasn't let me down. I think that what we discovered [in the 1960s] is that community culture is a really good working paradigm." "It's everybody's duty to stay informed and to participate in the culture," he says when asked about his motives. "What I'm doing is no different from what a lot of other people are doing, I'm just out there doing it, that's all. This is my country, and if I don't make it work, then who is going to make it work? And that goes for you and everyone else, too." "If you want to stand back and allow everyone who wants wealth and power to run the show, then that's what we'll get." Shocking!
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 11:45am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
That said, wonder how many chuckles they get when they play Throwing Stones at the Grove - or is that Unbohemian?
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Poster: | dead-head_Monte | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 12:25pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
As you say, Calif is now experiencing fire season 12 months per year. We now live in The Age Of Mega-Fires. Here's a decent news piece on mega fires.
In fall 2007, "wildfires ripped through Southern California, burning more than 500,000 acres of trees, destroying over 2,000 homes, and claiming nine lives. Scientists now say we should brace ourselves for more and more of these fires in the coming years, because there's been an enormous change in Western fires. In truth, we've never seen anything like them in recorded history."
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:06pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
OK, scanned the article. Bob is suggesting he rubs elbows with them to help change policy? Seriously?
And he gives 20-33% freebies lately?
Finally, I still don't understand--are the Bohemenians doing anything to their old growth that warrants the discussion of fire ecology, OR are we just (rightly) pissed off at Bob for joining corporate American and the military industrial complex?
IE, are they mis-managing their grove, Monte?
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Poster: | dead-head_Monte | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:34pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Look, waterboarding is when you fill someone's lungs up with water. Period. You fill up their lungs, more and more. It's called drowning. Nothing is simulated. This is torture - along with other brutal and "enhanced" techniques that are horrible. We have made countless new terrorist and enemies by lies, torture, illegal war and occupation, and endless corruption. Pakistan is imploding. We created the Taliban when we fought a counter-insurgency against the Soviets in Afghanistan. We also helped Sadam out when he invaded Iran in 1980. People are upset and pissed off. We are facing severe climate change and a perpetual Ponzi-scheme. How are we gonna do this?
ACLU is right now receiving new documentation and photos in a FOIA (freedom of info act) filing. The pics will be out any time. Claims are being speculated that these pics show of a network of US torture by CIA. All over the place.
I have quoted Jerry here endlessly, as have many others. I'm a freak. I'm living in a time-warp. I still believe in the same core values I had back then. How could Bob & Mickey side with these people publicly?
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:42pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
"Don't go for it man! Don't go for it!"
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 2:13pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
sorry. couldn't resist.
maybe bob and mickey are really working this from the inside since obama can't get an invite?
... why do I hear pink floyd's welcome to the machine in my head?
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 3:31pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
You know, Crotalus atrox (one of our esteemed reviewers) regularly consumes up to 33% of its body mass in one meal.
Now, don't tell Miss D, but that would mean I would take my pick up to Mickey Ds, and ask for 136 Big Macs...
Not even Jerry would've done that...he'd have sent Ramrod.
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Poster: | midnight sun | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:11pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
sustainability is the issue, the once forested middle east now reduced to deserts should be enough proof to convince anyone of the results of uncontrolled "progress"
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Poster: | angular | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:36pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Don't get me wrong, I love trees and can't think of a better way to spend time off than camping and hiking, but there should be preventative maintenance applied to help curb a possible wildfire.
Besides, if they sell the wood, I need a new deck and chairs.
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:00pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Now, MS raises an important point for forests of the arid West. And, we need to let them burn. We also need to get cattle out of them.
But, not sure what this has to do with the big article...sorry, got bored. What's the point and relation to the BOYS here? Sorry, just want to make sure "I get it" as this is what I make my living at...seriously.
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Poster: | Earl B. Powell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:28pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
This is one of those "Secret Society" exposes and makes some tenuous links. Shock journalism for tree hugging deadheads. Evidently somebody took the bait and now they're feeling a little nauseous about those save the rainforest hypocrites Bobby and Mickey.
PS. I think I once saw Jerry using a toothpick made of Western White Pine. The bastard.
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Poster: | jglynn1.2 | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 6:06pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
"America’s richest, most conservative men, including Henry Kissinger, George H. W. Bush, and a passel of Bechtels, Basses, and Rockefellers—are known to urinate freely against the ancient redwoods that cover their 2,700-acre property."
Those Bastards!!!
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Poster: | user unknown | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:54pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | SoogyerJohnson | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 7:30am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
elsa misses fred back in the jungle.
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Poster: | user unknown | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 9:26am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
I'll relay the message.
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:41pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
... ooh, ooh, take the money and run...
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Poster: | Earl B. Powell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:44pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWscxdleZzI
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:52pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
And BD, why of course I am pre-VERB-ally on point. On topic, or topical, hmmm...ointment only I suppose, made from the wax of Fine Corinthian Lather...or the roots of Ricardo's scalp.
OK, so, if I have the distilled version down, the boys, famous for the Save the Rainforest, are now seen with sprouts of the Bohemians, but are they pro logging? Or are they "save the old growth, anti-loggers"?
I take it they must be loggers, and that presents to us the conflict, right Earl & BD? I trust you two as my source of all things factual and truthful, concerning either Coach K's hair color or Keynesian Economics, whichever comes first.
In that case, well, it all depends on what these Bohemians are up to...if they say "log" and do so appropriately, I am all for it. But, having scanned the article, it is hard to determine what's going on, and whether they are attempting to return the forest to a more natural (fire ravaged...true, but hey...naturalistic fallacy aside they need it), OR just limiting the "pee posts" of the members...
Got me.
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 5:18pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-04-24 00:14:04
This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-04-24 00:14:17
This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-04-24 00:18:13
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 5:38pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: For WT and others |
http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/bohoindx.html
Note, bohos precede bolos and bozos....
Reply [edit]
Poster: | angular | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 4:14pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:52pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | cousinkix1953 | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 5:05am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2009-04-24 12:05:32
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Poster: | midnight sun | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:24pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
but yeah, that whole "playing god" thing and all...whereas letting it burn is the tried and true natural course
i struggle with the concept with my own tiny private old growth forest..things don't grow back all that quick up here, do i want my place looking like Mordor for the next umpteen years? for the first areas i was overzealous, then wind took out a bunch more, so now i try to make the changes slow and steady and carefully observe the results...some pockets i just leave well enough alone
like they say, "It's not IF there is a fire, it's WHEN there is a fire."
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 6:36pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-04-24 01:36:45
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Poster: | Styrofoam Cueball | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:16pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
A forty year old waitress to me these words did say:
"I see that you are a logger, and not just a common bum,
'Cause nobody but a logger stirs his coffee with is thumb.
My lover was a logger, there's none like him today;
If you'd pour whiskey on it he could eat a bale of hay
He never shaved his whiskers from off of his horny hide;
He'd just drive them in with a hammer and bite them off inside.
My lover came to see me upon one freezing day;
He held me in his fond embrace which broke three vertebrae.
He kissed me when we parted, so hard that he broke my jaw;
I could not speak to tell him he'd forgot his mackinaw.
I saw my lover leaving, sauntering through the snow,
Going gaily homeward at forty-eight below.
The weather it tried to freeze him, it tried its level best;
At a hundred degrees below zero, he buttoned up his vest.
It froze clean through to China, it froze to the stars above;
At a thousand degrees below zero, it froze my logger love.
They tried in vain to thaw him, and would you believe me, sir
They made him into axeblades, to chop the Douglas fir.
And so I lost my lover, and to this cafe I come,
And here I wait till someone stirs his coffee with his thumb."
Reply [edit]
Poster: | Pork Soda | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:33pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:21pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
I immediately thought of....
I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:28pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | Styrofoam Cueball | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:37pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | midnight sun | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:55pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
"Once you hug a logger, you'll never wanna go back to trees."
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 9:00am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | spacedface | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:00pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Unfortunately a lot of it was about the author trying to get into the show. That's Vanity Fair for ya.
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 8:16pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
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Poster: | midnight sun | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 6:42pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
but you're right, some areas may have ecosystems that have higher tolerances towards different harvesting techniques...for example, the fragile nature of the once upon a time "Fertile Crescent" compared to the relative resiliency of Europe's ecosystems, which fared much better in withstanding mass agriculture...and yes, blind allegiance to government, corporate, socialist or any other form of extremism tends to produce horrific results
"Since it costs a lot to win
and even more to lose,
you and me better spend some time
wondering, what to chose."
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 7:51pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: He shoots! Yes! |
Greatest quote yet in one of these discussions! Good call:
"Since it costs a lot to win
and even more to lose,
you and me better spend some time
wondering, what to chose."
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 10:35pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: He shoots! Yes! [For WT] |
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 6:58am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: He shoots! Yes! [For WT] |
Of course, Kobe tanks...
Bynum plays fewer minutes than fouls?!? Where's Joey Crawford? (hate him)
Damn...oh well, no panic yet.
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 7:43am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: He shoots! Yes! [For WT] |
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Poster: | NoiseCollector | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 9:16pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | denrophiles beware |
Die you woody bastard!
Even more impressive:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905521
Imagine if they had one of these for cows, the hamburger production would be increased dramatically...
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:47pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: demented space |
I just now noticed you said "woody"!!?
That was why I put the smoking jacket comment in--ie, I was acting in the role you originally critiqued...
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Poster: | Morning Dewd | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 5:07am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: denrophiles beware |
"A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. "
Reply [edit]
Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 9:28pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: denrophiles beware |
Yeah, I just realized, the Old Smoking Jacket (recall that?) would've been right on for this thread, eh?
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Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:13pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
On topic and on point does not compute.
Where's Tito?
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 7:10am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Reply [edit]
Poster: | bluedevil | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 3:54pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
They should legalize it and give some of the tax to fire and other emergency service agenices/entities
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Poster: | cousinkix1953 | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 5:07am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
They should legalize it and give some of the tax to fire and other emergency service agenices/entities."
You right BD. I heard some talk about the fire hazard on the local news. First CAL-FIRE tells residents to clear the brush around their homes. An idiot neighbor complains to the county and they want to harass people for obeying state laws. Some people still can't get permits, to rebuilt homes that existed before last Summit fire on Highway 17. That fire storm in Tahoe was a glaring example of the damage cauzed by this government agency infighting and the little get fucked over...
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Poster: | angular | Date: | Apr 23, 2009 4:23pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Just making a point for controlled growth.
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Poster: | spacedface | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 12:16am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
you should read the article.
admittedly it did not explain the other sides too well though because I couldn't tell what really happened between Hart's wife and the club management.
But come on, these are very rich men cutting down things they don't need to.
And doesn't much of the wood get shipped oversees to jobs and get resold here or to other rich countries? It's not like they're really building sustainable industry.
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Poster: | William Tell | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 1:29pm |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
Hmmm
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Poster: | cousinkix1953 | Date: | Apr 24, 2009 5:14am |
Forum: | GratefulDead | Subject: | Re: OLD GROWTH,OLD MEN, AND A SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG. |
This just more evidence that the boys have sold their souls to the company store. That used to be called the town of Scotia, all of which belonged to Pacific Lumber.
Just another reason why I don't regret not buying those $100.00 tickets to a Jerry Garcialess Grateful Dead reunion concert. I'd rather hear a tribute band that isn't a corporate sell out...