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Poster: | Jing Tong | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 5:50pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I wonder how viable many of these labels would be without the great help of Archive.Org?
Thanks....Jing
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Poster: | kendra_unique | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 9:58pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
but in regards to the hosting aspect, you do run across sites where all of the artist release links run straight into the archive. i think that this is something that can be understood for smaller labels or labels that are just stepping in, but at some point the responsibility of hosting needs to fall back to the people putting the music out. if not in respect to the fact that IA is offering a wonderful and free service which could suffer if taken advantage of, then at least to show your commitment to what you are doing and to establish yourself as an independent entity.
i spend in gas for my car, in two days, what it costs me to host my own files for one month. if you have the means, holding up your own end is just the responsible thing to do.
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Poster: | Morgan 23 | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 10:11pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Someone always has to pay the piper, and like Napster before it, IA may one day have to charge for it's generosity
PS - instead of so many faceless Net Labels, couldn't the space on IA be used for something a bit more lofty? Isn't the glut of Net Labels and Dead shows going to tip the scale one day?
It's seems sometimes that IA is just a dumping ground for the unlistenable work of 4-track bedroom musicians.
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Poster: | zeromoon | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 11:25pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
But it seems its heading towards the way of the old mp3.com, with people using it as a dumping ground for every little bit of bedroom noodling that they might produce.
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Poster: | camomille | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 11:49pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I mean there are two ways, either there are more netlabels coming here every day, till archive.org can no longer support and close down, or downsize and keep the quality up.
Some of us have been at it long before archive.org arrived, there are alternate ways of hosting music.
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Poster: | rinus van alebeek | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 12:53am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
you don-t have to listen to all the mp3-s.
but every mp-3 will find a pair of ears,
so why bother?
something new will come soon.
greetings to you all!
rinus
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Poster: | aaron m | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 7:01am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I'm not sure where you got that from, I believe one poster or 2 might have mentioned some kind of selection process on the side of IA in very vague terms.
This all started off as a post where someone asked how VIABLE (as in long term, self-sufficient, etc) many of these netlabels are without IA. No one complained about the lack of 'exclusiveness' (IA has never been exclusive, if anything its all inclusive, the whole site.. not just audio. I dont see this as a bad thing).
Concerns about its stability, bandwidth, expandibility, etc. were also raised by the question.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 4:43am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
bedroom twiddlers - bullshit, several of our artists have gone on to get signed by labels, some pretty big as well, artists use our site to promote themselves, we release people who aren't quite there yet (skills/productionwise) so they can get there music out and it gives them more self confidence and hopefully they'll keep at it and improve. when we did have a mailing list there were some BIG movers in the music industry signed up who checked our output.
90% of the posts in this thread are completely ignorant of what the netlabel scene is about and it'd be better off without that misguided and plain incorrect attitude.
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Poster: | camomille | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 7:07am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
It's not hard, nor is it in any way agressive ( and does not need defending ) that archive.org must take so much work from Simon and the people behind it, and for what ? 60% or more of stuff that should've been left to be reworked or filtered.
Of course that's harsh but as i said, there is a choice to be made, either let IA grow exponentially and thus make it lose its purpose (what if you have 1000 visitors a day that check between 10 netlabels or 100 netlabels, the more netlabels the less people will find anything and the less the ' promotion ' side of IA works ), or IA becomes a place of quality netlabel music.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 7:23am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
more info on the history of the scene here: http://hippocamp.net/?magazine/hca002/hca002.asp
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Poster: | Mister Lister 405 | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:01am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
This statement affirms the fact that Net Label artists are using Archive.Org as a jumping off place to big labels
Let's not kid ourselves and have some lofty notion that Archive.Org is the saviour of modern music (it's not) -
Archive.Org seems to be more like an AMATEUR HOUR, where amateur 4-track experimenters embarrass themselves and waste bandwidth
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:48am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
we're not USING anything, how is it a bad thing that artists who struggle to write the best music they can, release it for free, then go on to get paid for their work?
'Let's not kid ourselves and have some lofty notion that Archive.Org is the saviour of modern music (it's not) -'
no it's not. it is what it is. a free host for media which is used by a very grateful group of people who put a lot of hard work into developing their sites and community.
'Archive.Org seems to be more like an AMATEUR HOUR, where amateur 4-track experimenters embarrass themselves and waste bandwidth'
compared to what? is the output not valid because it isn't produced in a studeio at the cost of a hundred quid and hour with professional mastering? what exactly offends your poor little soul so much about people getting of their backsides and being creative?
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Poster: | Mister Lister 405 | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 5:57am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Do these Net Labels think that I would actually listen to their noodlings in my car, or play their music at a party?
The MP3.COM comparison is appropriate. Isn't it funny that folks believed that MP3.COM would last forever? Now it's just a distant memory.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:43am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
why is it egocentric? how can you know if it's egocentric without meeting the individual. YOU might not like it but that doesn't mean someone else wont enjoy it. music isn't a case of one-upmanship. these people are getting on with it and being creative, your point of view cheapens the whole thing.
'Do these Net Labels think that I would actually listen to their noodlings in my car, or play their music at a party?'
franky, i couldn't give a toss if you do or not, it's a little EGOCENTRIC of you to think they would. what constitutes good music in your opinion?
'The MP3.COM comparison is appropriate. Isn't it funny that folks believed that MP3.COM would last forever? Now it's just a distant memory.'
it's not at all appropriate, the two are nothing alike other than the fact they host media. the whole ethos and structuring is different. mp3 was restrictive and the whole movement centred on their own site as a portal, archive.org allows people to 'hotlink' and have as much or as little association as they like.
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Poster: | Weirdomusic | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 5:47pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Let's hope Archive.org will continue to help us out in this great way!
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Poster: | Ward Burns | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 8:58pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
If Archive.Org didn't exist, there certainly would be some other way to post mp3s...even if it were simply GeoCities...or getting together in small groups, pooling resources and forming one's own conglomeration of Net Labels.
By placing one's creative product (music) in the hands of one centralized location (Archive.Org) the likelyhood of disaster striking increases greatly - - I seem to remember a major power blackout on the east coast of the USA a couple of years ago.
Things happen, websites close, grants are cut-off, donations dry-up...nothing is forever.
I just hope that musicians who are uploading their entire creative output have back-up plans, and I hope thy won't get bugged if (and when) their host decides to start charging or chuck the whole operation.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 4:37am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
'Money is never a reason to do (or not to do) anything. '
yes it is.
If a person can't afford (or borrow) $100-200 a year to have a simple website, then they shouldn't be fooling around with the technology to begin with.
utter crap, we get over 100000 visitors a year, if we included mp3 downloads into the bandwidth we'd be talking a hell of a lot more than a couple of hundred quid.
If Archive.Org didn't exist, there certainly would be some other way to post mp3s...even if it were simply GeoCities...or getting together in small groups, pooling resources and forming one's own conglomeration of Net Labels. '
geocities.... you obviously don't know shit, as soon as you gt any amount of traffic they'd yank the media. co=ops are around, panicnow is one, it's also how scene.org started.
and the rest, your post is way off the mark.
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Poster: | aaron m | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:28am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I understand where you are comming from but, there are several netlabels that do just that (including those that get way more traffic than that).
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 5:49pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
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Poster: | zeromoon | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 10:41am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Its nice to see my little comment about "bedroom noodling" egging on the discussion. Of course fancy schmancy equipment and mega production value is not a qualifier for music. The term means that everything that a person might record does not mean it has to be immediately shared with the rest of the world. Sometimes its just a sketch that should be put aside, considered, embellished, or perhaps abandoned. Then one should start again, in a different direction.
Archive.org does not mean its one's personal archive...they don't have unlimited space to store everyone's dirty underwear. Its a wonderful place, filled with great discoveries. And great music can be found on netlabels along with embarrassments.
Let's not abuse it.
What's funny is I heard the same arguments during the "tape-label" era of the early 80s...people saying that it wasn't legimate music, not being released on vinyl and filled with bedroom noodling...and many of those cassette artists are "stars" today...hmmmmm
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Poster: | camomille | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 1:27pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
As hippocamp said, some of our netlabels are serious and open doors to our artists to get signed and actually live off this stuff. Some have artistic merit, some totally destroy boundaries and that's amazing, there are days of great material here. But seeing IA as a free service that everyone should use is a problem to me; seeing as how it's ' cool ' to have a netlabel now, seeing as how everyone who downloads fruity loops and fiddles with it for a few hours can put it up here on IA. ''Sometimes its just a sketch that should be put aside, considered, embellished, or perhaps abandoned. Then one should start again, in a different direction.
Archive.org does not mean its one's personal archive...they don't have unlimited space to store everyone's dirty underwear'' : this is the ultimate truth and is a question that should be looked upon. It is not elitism, it is just that the amount of low-quality music here on IA is totally overshadowing those of us who are serious about it, and IA looses its purpose at that point.
I understand the liberal approach, i understand the fact that we have total artistic liberty, but IA is a blessing, we shouldn't see it as a service or someone's job, cuz it ain't.
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Poster: | Blue T-Shirt | Date: | Aug 14, 2005 2:08am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
This post was modified by Blue T-Shirt on 2005-08-14 09:08:28
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Poster: | simon c | Date: | Aug 14, 2005 5:27am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Picking issues? (was re:Net Labels) |
[Compared to other collections, the netlabel are a very small amount of space and bandwidth, too.]
However, it still bothers me that there is so much netlabel music that I'm not interested in listening to (just because it's not to my personal taste), and I'm unable to work out what it is. This is probably the Netlabel Archive's biggest failing right now, and suggestions on that are welcome.
One possibility is to very strictly enforce bigger overall styles (such as 'techno', 'ambient', 'drone'), but we don't have the website infrastructure to do that right now, and it's difficult to judge objectively, too.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 10:57am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Just wanted to point out: http://ourmedia.org/
I bet "underwear" would even return a few hits by now. ;)
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Poster: | TC-Genocide | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:32am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I have webspace, enough to host my files, but when archive had a "call out" to netlabels ... awesome. I went in immediately, especially since Simon has been a netlabel and tracker man for years. Besides, I also take more pride I guess in my releases then others here. I do full artwork for the releases, which takes time.
I do agree that some folks on here, shouldn't be on here. They don't follow the release rules most of the time. THAT is a reason to not allow their files. Not allowing their files because it's "bedroom noodling" is inane and stupid.
Richard D. James, Jimi Hendrix, Yngwie Malmsteen, and everyone else started as bedroom noodlers, and people would kill to get their "noodlings" ... so ...
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Poster: | nolight | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 8:00pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
On the one hand you have labels who use archive to publish their music; in order to save money and as a platform well known to a lot of people.
On the other hand archive is also gaining benefit from this,through people who look for open (source) media files (music etc.), download it there and give this files to their friends or whoever. The more people know archive.org the better it is for this domain...
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Poster: | Ward Burns | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 8:48pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
PLUS - I notice more and more download failures via this site. For the past two days it's been Comfort Stand whose Archive.Org files are clogged up...and many others periodically.
Net Labels who are fighting against 3 or 4 major record companies (Sony, etc) have now put ALL their eggs in one basket...ONE BASKET. It dosn't take a rocket scientist to know this is not a good thing.
Not to be a sour-puss, but this doesn't make sense to me.
PS - have any court cases been tried to test the strength of the Creative Commons license? I have heard of none.
thanks - WB
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 4:57am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
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Poster: | Mister Lister 405 | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 5:48am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
I think NEARLY EVERY Net Label operator (if given the opportunity) would sell out his or her soul to cut a deal with Sony Music or Warner Music (or even Matador)
Why putter around on Archive.Org getting 10 downloads a month when a major label can move tens of thousands of CDs?
Let's be completely honest about this, Archive.Org IS the major host for Net Label "product" worldwide...and most Net Labels tend to go over-board when it comes topromoting their mp3s anywhere and everywhere ("hey, come listen to my new ambient, lounge remix!!"
Archive.Org has pretty much cornered the market when it comes to Net Labels.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:41am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
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Poster: | nolight | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 10:15pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
At this level you do compete with the majors and have a market.
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 11:24pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
it might seem strange when people come from the commercial sector but things are very different, you can't compare the two, they're like swings and round-a-bouts. you can't even use the same language when talking about netlabels - target audience, projected sales, market penetration, money, timing, growth, demographics etc etc. they're all irrelevant, some people seem to have difficulty in getting their heads around this.
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Poster: | aaron m | Date: | Aug 11, 2005 10:42am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
This post was modified by aaron m on 2005-08-11 17:42:54
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Poster: | hippocamp.net | Date: | Aug 11, 2005 10:31pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
if someone speaks of netlabels in such broad terms i'll respond in equally broad terms, is it okay for the original poster to generalise and call all netlabels crap and trying to compete with the record labels, home of bedroom tweakers etc etc but not okay for me to post a rebuttal? the percentage of netlabels (that have stuck around over say, a year) that do operate in a community based altruistic fashion is proportionally larger than those who operate out of desire for commercial gain.
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Poster: | nolight | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 10:08pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
Just googling for music does lead nowhere and a lot of other forums are very limited; especially as they only promote music one has to buy.
I buy a lotof CDs and have over 400 original CDs at home, but I think it is hard to find "fresh" music or ideas that are not mainstream infiltrated britney stuff...
But where archive will go in the future is unclear. A lot of things aren´t ok richht now, but I hope that it will evolve in the future.
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Poster: | J.B. Nicholson | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 5:22am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Independent of what? |
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Poster: | simon c | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 6:43am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
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Poster: | Sonic Walker | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 5:38pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
LOL. I guess a major music label intern has been told to use some guerilla marketing tactics.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 7:58am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-08-10 14:58:56
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Poster: | aaron m | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 10:09am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
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Poster: | Weirdomusic | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 4:38pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Aug 10, 2005 9:58pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: IMPORTANT: re thread repliers. |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Aug 11, 2005 12:08am |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
In the above thread, please read the following usernames as likely to be from a single individual:
Jing Tong, Ward Burns, Mister Lister 405, Morgan 23
No further replies to this individual should be necessary. Thanks! A moderator.
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Poster: | aaron m | Date: | Aug 9, 2005 8:04pm |
Forum: | netlabels | Subject: | Re: Net Labels relying too much on Archive.Org ?? |
This post was modified by aaron m on 2005-08-10 03:04:48