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Poster: | Olo | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:06pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Phil Lesh Official Satement |
An Announcement from Phil Lesh:
It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were
taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of
this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be
pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead's legacy and I hope
that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I
have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of
my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful
Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart
listening to Jerry's poetic guitar and sweet voice.
We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our
journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the
music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed
us to play "without a net". Your love, trust and patience made it possible
for us to try again the next show when we couldn't get that magic carpet off
the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being
respectfully addressed.
- Phil
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Poster: | ocomik | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 2:56am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
The simple fact, whether you agree or not, is that there are individuals (entities?) that hold the rights to the Grateful Dead Music library and as such can do with it as they please. For over thirty years this content has been available in multiple forms of distribution and we've been able to treat it as our own.
At least for now that no longer appears to be the case. I for one find it to be not just a bad business decision but a bad "community" decision. The true value of the Grateful Dead library is not a monetary one but instead is a living, breathing, testament to the creative human spirit.
The dollars that will be derived by those who have made this decision will pale in comparison to the loss of this music to the global community.
I for one know that some of the decision makers believe in the ability to change human consciousness and stood on the forefront as they watched it happen during the sixties.
In much the same way, the Internet has brought about a similar change with pioneers like Brewster Kahle leading the charge. How is what was being done back in the 60's so much different than what the Internet has brought about today? I for one fail to see the contrast.
Have the ideologies of the Grateful Dead organization changed such that you can no longer see the whole picture? Have the philosophies that you preached not been a positive testimony to the power of your original message? Ultimately, the decision to restore the Dead's music to the LMA resides with them. I only hope that they at least consider the bigger picture.
When it's all said and done to many this will come down to just music. For others, it's much bigger and encompasses facets that have been ingrained into our lives. For me, I find myself in the later camp. I want generations to have access to a Internet Archive that can tell the story of the Grateful Dead. Without it, at least in my opinion, it will not be complete.
Namaste
Michael OConnor, Editor
TheMusicNeverStopped.net
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Poster: | GDTRF-REAL-F'N-B | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:56am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
And for the rest of us, let's try and channel the anger and devote our efforts to a positive change here. I know that a compromise can be reached here ... we are a "community," whether we meet here or somewhere similar in cyberspace.
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Poster: | Wichita | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 3:52am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
I would love to see Debbie Koons evidence that the LMA ate into sales of the Vault releases.
Well there will always be trading within the Dead community. There's nothing her royal highness, Debbie Koons can do about that.
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Poster: | tad449 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:08am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | psyched | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:57am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
PHIL LESH USES IA as a resource to write his book!
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Poster: | Bugz | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:24pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Nice words Phil - I'm sure you will do what you can to at least get the audience recordings back up - I don't think the majority of the heads can really object to the SBD's being reserved top preserve the GD income stream.
At least, I hope not.
Besides, we have 'em all anyway -
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Poster: | Salt Lake City Library Boy | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:39pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
http://deadnews.blogspot.com/2005/11/ny-times-reports-on-web-crackdown.html
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Poster: | Dont_ez | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 9:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Statement |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 17:49:13
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Poster: | General Michail Illarionovich Kutuzov | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 10:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Germane Issue--where do we get the stuff now? |
For me the biggest issue is not so much the FREE vs. PAY Debate. Sure this is important. But far more important is the AVAILABILITY of ALL POSSIBLE SHOWS.
How lame would it have been over the years if we had to rely only on Dick's Picks and the full HALF DOZEN+1 Download Series for live music. It would be an unacceptable situation and many of us would not be as attached the GD as we are today.
I have been annoyed since DAY 1 that most Dick Picks are not true shows---but cobbled together compilations that both manage to leave off songs and repeat songs within 3 or 4 disks! I noted that GD Download Series 7 fell into this same trap.
Perhaps I speak only for myself--but I like to listen to wide array of shows from every year available. Sure certain years are uber-cool--but I have a copy of everyshow I went to and enjoy these greatly.
There is too much disconnect when a panel or an individual not only Cherry Picks a hand full of shows from THOUSANDS AVAILABLE but also has the power to arbitrarily edit the set lists and leave off songs.
If the entire Grateful Dead catalogue is digitized I will be ecstastic and fully understand that the overhead for such a project might require a nominal fee per song. But if it is no more than a glorified archive.org with fees. I will be disillusioned indeed.
For GDM to simply remove EVERY SHOW SBD and AUD without providing any other means to access this information is simply a counter-intuitive plunge. A desperate and pathetic stunt to drum up 2005 sales perhaps.
More important is that it is a step towards the dark ages. The genie has been let out of the bottle. We are all aware that there are thousands of simply amazing Grateful Dead shows and 40 odd releases over 10 years--or even 100 is not enough. The fact that so much of this was freely available makes their current policy untenable and counterproductive.
Of course we can get back to trading sound board CDs if this ban continues. And I will be the first to sign up and happily fulfill anynumber of trades. I am one of the people with 'gigabites' mentioned in the New York times--although I sure as sh-t wish I had 35 more!
SO where do we turn when it all dries up? How can we pick some random show from 1986--just for kicks and enjoy every second. I cannot imagine too many people on this site will remain beholden to the discretion of the archivists and their paltry efforts to date.
It was the very quality of these soundboards and those beautiful souls who made them available digitally who scared some executives. They were obviously the real target. AUD tapes cannot compete with these recordings. Perhaps they thought of the cash cow available if every show downloaded for free was rang up 15 bucks in their coffers.
What they failed to consider was how exceedingly foolish it is to kill the Golden Goose.
Jerry Garcia passed away a decade ago. The reason for the continuing growth and vitality of the scene is the availability of these shows. Especially the 1970s SOUNDBOARDS! The Grateful Dead would not have had such a widespread appeal without this massive dissemination of concert audio over the last 30 years.
We weren't showing up in droves to hear studio cuts. And the marketed Live Dead stuff was minimal before 1995. So rather than shut archive.org down in a petulant fit of profiteering---perhaps they should sit back and rejoice the fact that their model of free distribution of concert audio spread the good word and made thousands of converts around the globe.
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Poster: | smagnolia | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:45pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:47pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | GDTRF-REAL-F'N-B | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:56am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
And for the rest of us, let's try and channel the anger and devote our efforts to a positive change here. I know that a compromise can be reached here ... we are a "community," whether we meet here or somewhere similar in cyberspace.
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Poster: | aikox2 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:18am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Nice sentiment, Phil, but is it too late to restore things to the way they were? I don't just mean restoring the good faith of the fans; that will take time.
Can the shows be restored to the archive, or are contracts already signed that have screwed us, and ultimatley the signatores to those contracts? This was surely a piss-poor business decision; we will not spend more money based on this new model, but less. I think the suits have pissed off the wrong fans. They seem to have overlooked that we already have the archive. The suits seem to need our money; we don't need anything from them! The LMA was a wonderful resource and made it much easier to access the shows, but we traded before there was an internet, and we will continue to trade after. Think Fahrenheit 451, only the fans become the shows, not the books.
It really comes down to whether the Band wants to encourage the speading of their great musical legacy or hinder it, but shared it will be.
Music cannot be contained, and only a fool, a music business exec., a lawyer or similar black-hearted evil soul would even try!
I don't know if the archive can be restored now that ill-conceived contracts that have been entered into, but I hope that no one is going to be so stupid as to try and stop the online trading community and the bit torrent sites; that will cause a rift the likes of which have never been seen!
Hear that whirring sound? That's Jerry spinning in his grave :o(
Disappointed,
Scott (aka Aiko)
---<---<---@
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Poster: | GrayMouser | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 5:39am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
And, I am totally frustrated about it. Having come to the GD music late, I have been looking for a place to obtain taped concerts. I was totally unaware of this site until the recent furor....and now I am locked out. Unbelievably bad bummer for me....
I support both sources. I have all the music that can be officially bought. I would have loved to have had access to the taped material.
My current state of mind is to not purchase anything else from the corporate mud-heads. They can sit and spin on the tapes for all I care now.
Incredibly poor decision made here. And, someone is certainly being disengenuous if we are to believe key band members were not involved in the decision.
Man....I was this CLOSE to nirvana and never knew it....my bad (as my kids would say).
I would ask you all for other online sources for the material, but the thought police and the corporate mud-heads are probably scanning now and would jump in a heartbeat to shut down any sites mentioned hereafter....
Did I mention I was totally bummed out?
Best regards to all real Deadheads out there,
Darrel
Denver, CO
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Poster: | estimatedeyes77 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 2:16am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | cuznt | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:13pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
attention GD MERCH> we will not get stoned and forget about this one......
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Poster: | Purple Gel | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:14am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement: WAY TO GO PHIL!!! |
This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-11-30 08:14:30
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Poster: | Ron2112 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:29pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement: WAY TO GO PHIL!!! |
"Our" side:
Phil
Barlow
Hunter (?)
"Their" side:
Hart
Kreutzman
McNally
I'm starting to wonder if maybe we will see things back to normal here sooner rathe rthan later. Maybe Vince and Donna will get called in to cast the tie-breaking votes :)
Of course this all begs the question once again: if Phil didn't even know about all this who exactly were the "interested parties" who wanted LMA to pull the shows down? And exactly on who's behalf were they acting?
Peace,
Ron
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Poster: | Cosmicharley | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 5:37am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Thanks for the words from Phil
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Poster: | kcjibberjabber | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 6:07am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
jerry said when cher used a jem of his in a commercial [ responding to the backlash], " fuck em if they cant take a joke. I can sell anything I want even ifs its my own aSS."
well remeber something fellas( Phil, Bobby,Mickey,Billy ) that unless you start paying attention to who is in charge of this music legacy, who will? hell even the great prankster himself said he thought [the band] would "... protect this music with their lives, cause the dead's a bunch of warriors, thats what they are....." ( teid died - the movie, interveiw with K.Kesey)
Boycott em right away? I say headies everywhere, give the boys a month to sort this stuff out. In the mean while,
trade away
But seriously fellas no more bs, give us a tangible reason as to whats up. we'll prolly still love ya.......
www.geocities.com/boogiesessions/page.html
peace
ps, newbies are welcome & so are b/p's
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Poster: | huxley | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:34pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | gckeller | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 2:08am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Damn hippies! All about peace when it comes to Iraq, but they'll be the first to throw punches when it comes to someone making a statement about what they believe in. Anyways, I realize this morning that I was wrong given Phil's response, but that wasn't known last night. What's up with these people. Yeah, i'm talkin' to you.
That's just wrong. Phil, what's up with you attracting this type o' crowd nowadays? What ever happened to the good ole days of fun and freedom (of free speech)?
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Poster: | laptaper | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 1:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
That was such an amazing statement, so filled with love and respect, so much the antithesis of the cloak and dagger we've been getting. I'm sure you must be feeling a bit back-doored too in all this. Please rest assured that whatever decision you and the boys end up making, as long as it's done with the openness, honesty and respect that you've shown, the Deadhead community will back it. We may not necessarily like it, but we will certainly respect it.
P.S. I was listening today to one of the gems of the archive, 6/10/73 - the Dark Star jam with you taking the bass places I've never heard before, then Jerry tripping with my mind; by the time I knew where I was, I realized I'd left my spacesuit at home. :-)
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Poster: | Carlo Marx | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 1:29am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
This might be the saddest thing we've heard yet. Phil Lesh completely out of the loop? Has it really come to that? McNally says there was a "long discussion", but Phil not even notified?
"Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed."
By whom? Not you, Phil?
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Poster: | sadu77 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 1:39am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | Little Nemo | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 2:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | sadu77 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:22am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | markpj | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:43am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
"Honey, it is corporate."
"Well then, corporate in a good sense?"
"Is there a good sense? Corporate is corporate."
Will we be encouraged to buy more merchandise?"
"Hate to tell you, but merchandising pays for the site and has done so from square one."
"I thought you owned DNC."
"There's a rumor that I paid for DNC's Web Ex program. I did once, at the beginning, to get it off the ground, but there have been lots of upgrades since, another due, but not out of my pocket."
"Will they actually sell more stuff because of the new format?"
"We'll see. Let's give our new overlords the benefit of the doubt unless they get in our hair."
"Yeah, as long as our forums aren't full of pop-up icons and Teen Beat copy, let them try it on."
"Try and stop 'em!"
"Is GDP like broke, or just greedy?"
"Little of both, I expect. You want a hamburger with your ketchup?"
"No, just fries."
"Remember, in the end, the forum is us. Sales is a whole different corridor. We've all done enough net surfing to have rewired out brains to filter out what doesn't interest us."
"Will it be better?"
"Of course not."
"Will we be better?"
"Just stay as sweet as you are."
"A New Era of Deaddom Emerges!"
"Ta-dum"
"Dumbed down Dead?"
"toke and pass."
got this from robert hunters web site
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Poster: | jcgiro | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:17am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | S Travers | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:10pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Great to hear you feel that way. You guy's are such a big part of the history of rock and roll it's crazy. Really love the way you jam!! That's what I always loved about the Dead and you are there big time. Love your music and I for one will support you in any way I can. You are an amazing gifted musician! Long may you run.
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Poster: | ncteacher | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:30pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | Fishead | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 2:27am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: where's the rest of the band |
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Poster: | Carlo Marx | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 3:02am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: where's the rest of the band |
However, upon further review, there's a lot Phil did NOT say:
1 The decision to pull the shows off the Archive was a mistake.
2 I will do everything I can to reverse the decision.
3 The Grateful Dead legacy, the music, should be free to all.
4 Let me call those bad boy drummers and get this straightened out.
Sadly, Phil implies he has little influence or even contact with the guys he spent so many years with.
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Poster: | cousinkix1953 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 11:03am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: where's the rest of the band |
This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:02:22
This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:03:58
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Poster: | wazzzup | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 3:37am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
What's next? GDM pairing up with Sony and the music industry to go after the bit torrent community in court for trading SBD's. They stuck their finger in the dyke of a dam that broke open years ago and there is no going back--- guess it is back to the underground for most of us.
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Poster: | cousinkix1953 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 11:22am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2005-11-30 19:22:58
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Poster: | DanMan1961 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:32pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:19am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Couldn't help but notice a major discrepency between McNally's and Phils statements:
In NY Times McNally stated: “Eventually, it was the band's conclusion, after a long discussion with them, to request that they change their policies"
While Phil says “I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled.”
Someone is lying and my guess is the GDP's paid spokesman.
We all know he lied about the reason for pulling the shows
('community' 'Grateful Dead Values') so why not go ahead and lie about the decision making process as well.
Someone must think we are REALLY stupid.
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:39am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
I also would like to know who McNally was speaking for if Phil was left out of it.Barlow names the drummers and of course Koons had to be in on it. Where's Bobby?
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Poster: | 3roin stones | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 12:39am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
I also would like to know who McNally was speaking for if Phil was left out of it.Barlow names the drummers and of course Koons had to be in on it. Where's Bobby?
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Poster: | HopOttin | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 5:24am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | phl7@cornell.edu | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 3:59am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | GD SBDs are being uploaded! |
http://www.walstib.org/
SBDs are being uploaded as I write this...
How many more drums/congas/djembes/whistles/bells/playable skulls does Mickey Hart need?
Keep on keeping on.
Pete
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:24pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
....and for the McDead Corporation to slam the LMA and completely throw them under the bus is so vile and repugnant!!! "not a community" ... bullf*ckinsh*t!!! I think i just might use my McNally book for kindling - fallen tree branches are far too precious in comparison.
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Poster: | ncteacher | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:34pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
Anger is destructive - I understand and share that feeling, but trust in the yin-yang of "they'll get what they deserve". No doubt Debra is the greedy force at work, but she never added anything to the positive anyway. Besides, McNally's trying to be a publicist and put spin onto a piss-poor situation. Give him some latitude - his book was really good - almost as good as Phil's. Keep the faith - and listen to some of that awesome stuff we have already have personally archived...
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 10:41pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
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Poster: | ncteacher | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:06pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
I can't disagree - you outrank my BA in English by two degrees! My many years on the bus just makes me cautious about leveling vitriol at anyone within our community. Some of the more hateful postings I've read seem more destructive to our community than what Debra (or GDM) could ever do. I know you and I are on the same side - literature study gives us so much.....perspective, right?
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Poster: | direwolf0701 | Date: | Nov 29, 2005 11:14pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Phil Lesh Official Satement |
I agree wholeheartedly that many posts (probably even a couple of my own) are more destructive than constructive. My getting carried away by emotion does not alleviate the "fault" in my posts. Ive had many years on the bus too and just felt like our "community" had been attacked from within. My own "verbal vitriolic vomit" was only a quick defense mechanism. (my mental perspective can often get clouded by emotion - a personal weakness unfortunately). Thank you for your post :)