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Poster: | Matthew Vernon | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 3:27am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
Around 2000, a group of people including myself came together to collect and convert a variety of Grateful Dead recordings into “lossless compressed” format (aka shn) for ftp exchange over the internet. At that time, there were few servers that hosted live music performances. A key event was the creation of the “db.etree.org” database and web site by Tom Anderson. This established a mechanism for tracking different sources using md5 signatures. Tom’s contributions were fundamental.
Between 2000 and 2003, our initial effort of digitizing music of the Grateful Dead expanded into collecting the complete “circulating” opus, defined by the shns-in-circ pages for the Grateful Dead at db.etree.org, compatible with the band’s trading policy, onto a single server. We estimated that it would require about 3 Terabytes of disk space and take about 1 year to complete. The server was tol.etree.org and was located in Sweden. Many people contributed their time and resources to this project. Hard disk drives were purchased and loaded with shows and mailed to Sweden. Individual source ftp uploads were coordinated concurrently. We tried to standardize the way the directories were named so that one could find the recordings one desired. As much as possible we tried to include Grateful Dead internet trading groups by having public logins to tol.etree.org. These groups included “Dead Net Central”, BUDD, deadlists, Grateful Dead forums on “The Well”, etree.org and others. Efforts to collect rare and famous audience recordings and transfer them to the digital domain also occurred during this time interval.
The recordings on the Internet Archive were not supplied by the Grateful Dead to the Archive. The soundboard and audience recordings on the Archive are those that were being traded, in effect, by the aggregate of collectors that we are aware of. Each source has its own story, some colorful, some pure fiction (but always entertaining). The impact of the music is reflected in the fact that the various sources have been kept by individual people for so many years that present day audio technology can make it widely available.
Around fall 2003, I contacted Brewster Kahle, the vision behind the Internet Archive, if the Internet Archive would be interested in backing up the contents on tol.etree.org. Enough time and money had been expended by so many people that we thought it best to try to implement a contingency plan in the event tol experienced a catastrophic hardware failure or was no longer available. The Internet Archive’s vision of “building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form … [to] provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, and the general public” was an ideal match considering the pivotal role of the Grateful Dead in live concert recordings. Brewster and I met and he agreed to archive tol’s gd collection and to host it on the Internet Archive as an “etree server”, consistent with our understanding of the band’s trading policies regarding live recordings. I was personally interested in finding a permanent steward for the audience recordings knowing that by and large the soundboards are professionally cared for in the Grateful Dead’s Vault.
Around spring 2004 public access to the Archive’s gd collection began as we rolled out the collection in years. The infrastructure of the Internet Archive enabled the recordings to be freely accessed in a variety of formats (shn/flac, streaming, mp3/ogg). Thanks should go to Jon Aizen and Parker Thompson of the Internet Archive (and others I am not aware of) who coded and help fix all of the nagging issues to get the sources on line with correct metadata.
From 2004 to the present one can read threads in different gd forums on this site and others that wondered if having everything in one place for anyone to access was the right thing to do. I haven’t collected every opinion that was articulated but one can safely assume that any conceivable opinion has been voiced by someone, somewhere.
What those involved in the effort (and there have been several hundred) have strived to do was implement our idea of a single online collection with an attention to quality and completeness and at all times consistent with our understanding of the band’s trading policy. Fans of the Grateful Dead are known for their obsessive compulsive enthusiasm to sharing the music of the Grateful Dead and we are guilty of this charge.
What you see on the archive is “Phase 1” of the GDIAP (Grateful Dead Internet Archive Project). Given the uniqueness of the Grateful Dead’s role in the history of live music performances, we had planned to develop software that would enable researchers to explore the audio collection in new ways to follow how music evolved. We wanted to create supplementary databases (though the help of the public) that would transcribe the between song banter so it could be searched with links to the audio source material, who played on every song, song timings, links to themed jam development and others. We contemplated creating software that would use set list statistics based on frequency and song order to create hypothetical setlists and then “stream” them to you as an amusing diversion to “shows that could have been”. Maybe you want to hear every “Yellow Dog” story back to back? Developing the software to enable you to do that transparently was on our “to do “list. We don’t claim to know all future applications of the GD audio collection on the Archive. Given the inventiveness of the GD fan base throughout the last 40 years, clever, useful or fun concepts are bound to arise we can’t envision at this time.
Several months ago, Brewster, Parker and I met with representatives of Grateful Dead Productions (GDP) and presented our visions of where the GDIAP project was going. These meetings were very productive. I felt very much that GDP understood the materials we had presented to them. The Grateful Dead’s music has an infectious enthusiasm that we all share including the hardworking and dedicated people at GDP. I also learned something about their roles and functions, some of the problems they face and the constraints they operate under.
The position of the Internet Archive has always been to support the bands in hosting their music on the Archive.
I think it is very important for me to personally say that there has always been an unspoken generosity about sharing the music from the band members, the support personnel and the fans. These were the only meetings that I ever had with the any one officially connected with the band and I felt that spirit was there.
The people who have contributed to the GDIAP project want the Internet Archive to exist “forever” so things like the audio recordings of the Grateful Dead are around long after we have gone our separate ways.
Matt Vernon
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Poster: | Tyler | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:38am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | archivemod | Date: | Feb 28, 2014 11:05pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | xDeadRoadie | Date: | Jan 23, 2006 8:32am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
Don Gaess, Upper Saddle River, NJ, - CATERING CREW - KITCHEN CY KOCIS, official hospitality crew for the DEAD 1975-78. (affiliated with MONARCH ENTERTAINMENT tour support, John Scher president) *****High five to Steve Parrish, Cy sends you a high five! We miss those days :-)
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Jan 23, 2006 9:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: GD FAQ |
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=54261
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Poster: | ripcurldead | Date: | Jan 24, 2006 8:17am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | rmcd111 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 10:14am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 18:14:36
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Poster: | aikox2 | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:13am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
If I am not mistaken, there was also a wealth of JGB on tol. It was also very fast : )
One day, I could no longer logon to tol : (
What happened to tol and all that archived music?
Aiko
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Poster: | chun | Date: | Dec 20, 2005 10:53am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by chun on 2005-12-20 18:53:45
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Poster: | Chris Ladner | Date: | Dec 1, 2005 7:55am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
no mention was made of "the music never stopped project", but this is the group of guys who committed themselves to extracting/listening and encoding and uploading shows to tol which ultimately led to the "tol year projects" -> archive.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Dec 2, 2005 1:26am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the TMNSProject |
(Knock self on head) I can't believe none of us have brought up the TMNSP acronym yet. Deep credit is due for their amazing teamwork. :)
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Poster: | dylanpc | Date: | Jan 5, 2006 11:15am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | bcdeadahead | Date: | Jan 9, 2006 8:29pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Jan 9, 2006 10:04pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: movin' on |
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Poster: | MushroomEagle | Date: | Jan 12, 2006 1:24pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: movin' on |
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Poster: | BensDad | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 9:50am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This is the question I have been trying to get answered from the git go:
So basically you did not have the bands permission to upload their music and you used the mp3 policy as a backbone correct? Another question: How did the lossless format and the SBDS fit in under the policy requirements in the first place? SHN is not mp3 and even though the SBD sources did not come from the vault they were still SBDS (insert patch argument here), I am not trying to be a jerk here I am just trying to understand. I am happy as h**l to see that we are getting the AUDS back for download. My argument from the beginning is that those were technically ours and they were going back on their word....Thank you for clarifying some things for us Matt. You answered a lot of questions that I had...LONG LIVE THE GRATFEUL DEAD AND LMA!
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 10:18am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 18:18:32
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Poster: | frank_the_third | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 11:14am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
a lot of my GD collection comes from the archive
but like times before, you can always email me for a trade :)
~ the music never stopped ~
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Poster: | Brad Leblanc | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 11:31am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-11-30 19:31:42
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Poster: | BensDad | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 11:44am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by BensDad on 2005-11-30 19:44:37
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Poster: | Brad Leblanc | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 8:06pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-12-01 04:05:26 It looks like they have to do with the quotes you are using. Weird keyboard? Try posting another message with quotes and see what happens.
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-12-01 04:06:16
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Poster: | BensDad | Date: | Dec 1, 2005 5:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
ok, lets see...
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Poster: | hopperdave | Date: | Feb 11, 2006 2:46am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
I started poking around looking for something to download
and mush to my horror I CAN'T download ANYTHING! I guess I was lucky to have downloaded some great stuff a few months
ago.... it's sad to see such a great resource for our music
(and the memories it revives) to be squashed.... :(
If anyone knows of another site similar to how this site used to be, email me at hopperdave2000 at yahoo dot com....
THANX!!!
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Feb 11, 2006 4:28am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: GD FAQ |
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#215
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Poster: | Acid Queen | Date: | Feb 23, 2006 4:51am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
For every show that's still available to download (now it's only audience as I said before)there is a 'link' on the frame of each show, which gives you all the info you need to connect to the server that show is on. All you have to do is 'plug=in' all the info that's give at this 'link'and 'hit connect'. Now the shows aren't logged on the server by name or venue, so make sure you remember the 'date' of the show you want to download, so you can scroll through the server list and find it. Once you do 'highlight' it, than open up the 'local directory'(that's on your hard drive) where you want it saved to and 'click' the arrow pointing toward your directory. This is a much faster process than the 'old' downloads from a few months back, which took 'forever' for some shows. These are all 'shn' files; really compressed,so they take very little time to download completely.
After you have the show downloaded you now have to de-compress them if you want to burn a CD;but if you just want to listen on your computer player, Winamp has a 'shn' plug-in available.
I hope this helps you; good luck and have FUN!
AIKO-AIKO!
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Poster: | waller | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 9:44am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
thanks for clearing that up? but if the sd's are patches dont we the fans have the music or the archive? I hope this all works out Its been a crazy week. and thanks for all your hard work
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Poster: | Fishead | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:48am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
hopefully you and gdp can have another meeting or is that not gonna happen?
appreciate all the time and effort you put into this project.
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Poster: | gruUbic | Date: | Apr 5, 2006 8:06am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
Good luck to y'all @ etree, archive, et al and GDP
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Poster: | feetheweasel | Date: | May 1, 2006 10:20am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
Just seems wierd that if a band says that people can come and freely record their live shows and some are even allowed to plug into the board, then they own that music as long as they dont try to make money off of it. The Dead took it even a step farther by selling tickets exclusively for tapers. Seems that I could call Betty Cantor and get a couple of juicy boards via her collection and theres nothing illegal about it. Why are digital files any different? Seems a little extreme to now say that it is illegal. Or maybe just greedy. Doesnt really matter b/c I realized that w/o Jerry and Billy, the Dead suck.
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Poster: | fremontbob | Date: | Jul 14, 2006 12:13pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Jul 14, 2006 1:02pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-07-14 20:02:00
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Poster: | chasingwilma | Date: | Jan 22, 2012 7:13am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
are we going to be able to upload dead any time soon
i need somewhere to back up my masters before anyhting happens to them
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Poster: | glenn | Date: | Sep 3, 2012 6:19pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum
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Poster: | chasingwilma | Date: | Sep 4, 2012 6:11am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
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Poster: | glenn | Date: | Sep 6, 2012 12:30am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
and as I understand it, there will not be an 'opening up' of the upload process because of the GDIAP group. "if you cannot answer the question: "Is this the best source available" for a given show, I'm certain the archive will not be available for upload.
the archive is not for the purpose of you backing up your masters, your backup is and always has been the files you have shared.
and in any case, you will get better answers from people in whose knowledge you may have more faith --- over HERE:
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum
and NOT in this thread which died 6 years ago.
I mean no discourtesy, I'm answering your question so it doesn't just lay there. So I really recommend, if my info isn't trustworthy to you, or even if it is, that you ask again http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum <--there
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Poster: | chasingwilma | Date: | Sep 6, 2012 4:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
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Poster: | glenn | Date: | Sep 6, 2012 7:05pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum |
I've not been active on this forum for about 6-7 years, but I had email notifications 'on' for this thread, because I was interested in the outcome of the original discussion whatever that had been, way back then.
When you asked your question, I got pinged, and I noticed that there was just the one ping, giving me the impression that whatever it was, nobody had responded. I would have felt ignored if it had been me, so of course I gave you the best answer I had, go over to the new forum where everyone is and ask there...
Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it. Sorry about the antagonistic vibe we had going there for a sec.
for anyone else that stumbles on this thread... go over to the new forum, all the cool kids are doing it:
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum
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Poster: | Shiva Ho | Date: | Jan 18, 2006 11:21am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
Where does one contribute shows that still have yet to be included in the Archive?
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Poster: | dire--wolf | Date: | Nov 30, 2005 4:33am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
So what problems were they faced with? What did you learn. I have come to terms with the verdict but from a pure intrest in the band and their activities, what is the real answer, why did this happen?
Respectufly, dire--wolf
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Poster: | yippierb | Date: | Dec 2, 2005 8:02am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings |
This is interesting and enlightening. LMA must continue whatever the Band decides. To you and everyone who puts their heart and soul into this..My deepest gratitude.
Thanks,
Rich