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Poster: jerkwaterdan Date: Dec 27, 2007 9:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Question About 24 Bit

I recently DL'd a 24 bit version of 4/17/71 Princeton. I decoded it as usual in Traders Little Helper but when I went to burn the files onto CD I kept getting some sort of error message and was unable to burn the files or even play them back. Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong? I really want to check out these 24 bit transfers. Any help would be appreciated!

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Poster: deadhead66 Date: Dec 28, 2007 3:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Your question about 24-bit-depth files

Dear jerkwaterdan,

Well, I just spent about an hour writing a lengthy, link-rich post in response to your recent inquiries, but it was all erased accidentally at the last minute when I mistakenly closed my second MSN window after copying the http address for the last link I wanted to embed, and thus accidentally used the back arrow on the MSN/Internet Explorer browser to get to the website the link for which I copied and had intended to embed in my post. I'm thoroughly demoralized.

Let me try brevis to reincorporate herein the essence of my destroyed post.

You can listen to 24-bit-depth .flac or .wav files using jetAudio. You don't need to convert the .flac's to .wav's to listen to them through this player.

I have jetAudio 7.0.5.3040 Basic VX. The "VX" corresponds to my COWON jetAudio X5 personal digital player, and so you don't want to download that version of the player.

You can download jetAudio 7.0.5.3040 Basic as freeware here:

http://www.cowonamerica.com/download/

I have the Sound Pack and Special Sound Effect Pack installed as add-ons. You can review their features and purchase them, or any or all of the other available add-ons, here:

http://www.cowonamerica.com/onlinestore/jetaudio/

There is no reason to dither 24-bit files available through the Archive down to 16-bit depth. In transcribing original cassette or reel-to-reel tapes, the engineer will usually write them in 24-bit 96kHz resolution (or 24-bit 48kHz resolution) and thereafter dither the files down to 16-bit depth to avoid having to transcribe the same tape (which is frequently fragile) twice, in real time. You'll see this in the lineage of some lossless transcriptions of audience recordings as spelled out in the text files accompanying the audio files available for download through the Archive. You will lose the advantages of 24/96-or 24/48-resolution if you dither the files down to Red Book standard (16-bit, 44.1kHz).

As for burning: I use discWelder Steel to author DVD's that I can play in my DVD-A player. This enables me to burn 24/96 or 24/48 .wav files gaplessly to DVD-R's (or to DVD+R's, or to DVD-plus-and-minus-R's) using my Plextor PX-810 UF DVD burner. The software costs $495, and is available from Minnetonka Audio Software, Inc. out of Minnetonka, Minnesota. (Remember Tonka trucks? Well, they were first made in Mound, MN, near the shores of Lake Minnetonka. This software is like a Tonka truck in its sturdy functionality and elegant simplicity; I recommend it highly.)

Here's a link to the discWelder Feature Comparison Matrix, which shows you the differences among discWelder Bronze, Steel, and Chrome:

http://www.discwelder.com/

Here's a link to some informative resources:

http://www.discwelder.com/

Finally, here's some information about DVD-Audio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio

Hope this proves helpful.

Best wishes to all for a Happy New Year.

Sincerely,
deadhead66

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Poster: jerkwaterdan Date: Dec 29, 2007 12:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Your question about 24-bit-depth files

Sir, you are both a gentleman AND a scholar! Thank you so much for taking the time to pass along this very useful information! I will get the ball rolling on this since I have heard these 24 bit transfers are really nice sounding transfers. Happy New Year to you and to all of you who were kind enough to offer suggestions.

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Poster: CompSurfahV2 Date: Dec 29, 2007 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Your question about 24-bit-depth files

A gentleman and a scholar.... and there's damn few of us left.

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Poster: deadhead66 Date: Dec 29, 2007 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Your question about 24-bit-depth files

You're welcome. Glad to be of some assistance. Let me make two points I neglected to make in my last post. The first is about high-resolution audio files. When we speak of traditional pulse-code-modulated (PCM) data streams and files (meaning we're not speaking about SACD, which technology lies outside the scope of this post), we refer to bit-depth and frequency. The bit-depth determines the size of the "word" that the software reads and translates into sound. Traditional depth has been 16-bit for CD's, pursuant to what is called the "Red Book" standard that was concocted and agreed to years ago by the majors. Here's a link to more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard) It is helpful to realize that bit-depth corresponds to the amplitude of the sound wave propagating through space. When you have 24-bit depth, you have greater amplitude, and so (up to a point of rapidly diminishing returns and subject to certain absolute physical limitations, such as the limits of human hearing) have higher sonic fidelity and more detailed aural resolution. The other dimension is frequency. The frequency determines how much sound (data) populates a given period of time (how dense the sound wave is). Traditional frequency for CD's in conformance with the Red Book standard is 44.1kHz. With 48kHz or 96kHz frequencies (or 192kHz, which one sees occasionally; more on this in a moment), one achieves (again, up to a point of rapidly diminishing returns and subject to certain physical limitations) higher sonic fidelity and more detailed aural resolution. Greater bit-depth means bigger waves (.wav's). Greater frequency means more information in the same space/time. This makes for enhanced enjoyment of the music -- which is what we're all after. Mickey Hart remixed and remastered American Beauty to 2-track stereo in 24-bit/192kHz resolution. This can only be heard optically on a DVD-A player (as is true for 24/96 and 24/48 recordings as well). I recommend it heartily (no pun intended). Mickey also remixed and remastered the album to 5.1 surround sound in 24-bit/96kHz resolution. Keep in mind that unless you're listening to Dolby Digital 2.0 LPCM, you're listening to a lossy source. Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound, DTS surround sound, and the like are lossy technologies. I prefer lossless stereo myself. This dovetails into my second point, which concerns DVD technology. The discWelder Steel software does contain optional features that allow one to author a DVD with audio files that will play in a traditional DVD player (meaning one that does not support DVD-A). Generally speaking, however, one needs a DVD-A player to play optically files/tracks in 24/192, 24/96, or 24/48. Note that I wrote "to play optically." As I mentioned in my last post, you can use jetAudio to play .wav's and .flac's in 24/96 or 24/48. (I'm not sure about 24/192; I'm going to check that right now.) You can also use a network media player, which will stream files from your computer or an external hard drive or hub without resort to optical media. I have the Helios X5000 unit. Here's a link: http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/X5000/x5000_tech_specs.shtml Hope this is helpful and not just the electronic equivalent of a lot of hot air. Best to all, deadhead66
This post was modified by deadhead66 on 2007-12-29 16:53:06

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Dec 27, 2007 9:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Question About 24 Bit

dan ... with the premise that i am by no stretch of the imagination an audio expert (for that level of expertise 'deadhead66' is your go-to forumite), however, i do believe that 24-bit sourced shows need to be burned as audio DVDs; you can of course decode the files and listen on your computer provided that your soundcard is capable of playing 24-bit audio; however, given that the de-compressed files will take up quite a bit of space on your hard-drive, hardly practicle of course

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Poster: jerkwaterdan Date: Dec 27, 2007 10:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Question About 24 Bit

Yeah, I tried to burn them on to DVD also , but to no avail. Same problem as before. Paging deadhead66...
This post was modified by jerkwaterdan on 2007-12-28 06:19:17

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Poster: BlueMtnMan Date: Dec 28, 2007 4:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Question About 24 Bit

Can't help with the burning, my DVD burner is still in its Christmas box waiting for additional parts. I did, however, download the 7-21-74 24/96 release so I could compare. If you use Winamp & your sound card supports 24/96 playback, you can at least play the flac files without decompression.

The difference in quality between the 16/44.1 & the 24/96 versions is quite remarkable. Think of looking through a dirty window with a screen as the 16 bit. For 24 bit, clean the window and take off the screen. Like the difference depicted in the "Clariton" commercial.

At over 3 times the file size & the time it takes to complete the torrent, I don't know how many of these I'll be collecting, but I'd love to hear the difference on an already crisp sound board.

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Poster: markduffer Date: Dec 28, 2007 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Question About 24 Bit

Dan- Download a copy of Audacity (it's free) and you can convert the 24 to 16 bit and burn to cd as per usual.

MD

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Poster: jerkwaterdan Date: Dec 28, 2007 2:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Question About 24 Bit

Thanks alot Mark! I appreciate the tip and will try it.