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Poster:	light into ashes	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 4:24am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Dark Star 1971

1971 is not a year known for its Dark Stars. Audiences used to the Live/Dead album shrieked ecstatically whenever those first notes were played, but in '71 the Dead were concentrating more on being a straightforward rock & roll band. This is an important year for Stars, though - they become more loose and unpredictable, in fact full of surprises. There is more variety in the Stars of '71 than in '70, as the Dead experiment with the structure. The jams become more expansive through the year - especially after Godchaux joins, the Dead take a leap closer to the unearthly improvisations of 1972.

From a 1971 interview, Garcia talks a bit about Dark Star -
Reich: Each time it comes out in a different way?
Garcia: Yeah, pretty much. There are certain structural poles which we have kind of set up in it, and those periodically we do away with. That's why we came up with such a thing; there are a few things that we do which are vehicles for that openness.... There's something on our new album [the Other One] that unfolds in the Dark Star tradition, so to speak. This new one is even more amazing. It is really some of the best playing that we've ever done...
(Signpost to New Space)

1971 saw Dark Star stripped down and rebuilt - many of the themes familiar from 1970 Stars are no longer present in '71. They didn't play it as often, and early versions are often sparse, almost minimal, as if the Dead are holding back from their epic 1970 voyages. By contrast, as Garcia indicates, they were more excited about the directions the Other One could go in as it opened up and became spacier. The Other One was a regular set-II setpiece that year; whereas Dark Stars uniquely could be dropped into either set, when the mood struck. The Stars of this year are also generally less 'complete' than the giants of '69/70, as the Dead made a habit of exiting early into one song or another.
But after Hart left, the music became more dynamic and open-ended with Kreutzmann alone on drums. This year has numerous examples of turn-on-a-dime jams where the Dead can suddenly wheel in unison like a flock of startled birds. And by the fall, with Godchaux onboard and a new instrument in the mix, the jamming was much less straightforward and closer to the telepathically trippy jams that would come next year. Though their jams might have progressed the same way without Godchaux, he was obviously an inspiration to the others, giving them a richer, fuller sound and expanding the ideas they could pursue. By the end of the year, the Dark Stars are extremely loose and open, mining the realms of the unconscious....

To illustrate how the Dark Star format developed, we'll first take a look at a sample late-1970 Star. This one follows the usual '70 pattern: thematic jam > first verse > a weird space > a melodic theme > the second verse.

10/11/70
This is a poor tin-can AUD tape even by 1970 standards, complete with obtrusive audience chatter. The Dark Star is very energetic tonight.
The beginning is lost in a tapecut, so the Star comes fading in as they jam on the theme. The music is upbeat, the band revved-up, the drums very active - it sounds like we're already in the middle of the Star, as the band quests for a climax. Garcia tries to bottle the energy back up in the Dark Star theme, and they settle down for the verse. After the verse, gong crashes drop us into a tense space, which sounds a bit like a horror soundtrack...percussive string scrapings, cymbal splashes, feedback hums, hanging dissonant chords... Eventually Garcia starts slowly plucking his strings, so he sounds like a koto! The space turns into demented Japanese ghost-chamber music, the notes twangy and shimmering. (This gets the chatty audience to shut up!) Lesh storms in with a dense thundering drone, and electricity surges through the music. Garcia flashes like metallic lightning into a Sputnik jam, wah-bending his lines. The madness over, he switches to his usual tone (signaling the others that the 'space' is over) and they slowly ease into a regular melodic Dark Star jam. This builds gradually - it doesn't hit the heights of ecstasy like some other Stars, but it's satisfying and very rhythmic. The music become bright and happy-sounding, driven forward by the rhythm. Caught up in the mood, Lesh hints at Feelin' Groovy, but Garcia swerves back into the Dark Star theme instead, and the band quiets down for a slow reentry to the verse. The jam-ending is different than usual - Garcia prolongs it, drifting on trebly chords a while before he starts the verse.
Dark Star segues into St Stephen, much to the crowd's delight. (It's strange to remember that Live/Dead listeners at the time wouldn't have heard the full segue, as it was split across sides on the album!) Anyone hoping for the Eleven, though, would have been surprised by the quick turn into Not Fade Away, and after that, the first performance of Goin' Down the Road. Not Fade Away is turned into a mere three-minute bookend to the new song, which is how it would stay through the first half of '71....the days of the giant 1970 NFAs ended on this night!
(This show also has a fine Dancing in the Streets jam, which sounds at times like a wah'ed Playing jam of two years later, though the sound is too poor to be sure what's happening....)
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-10-11.aud.cotsman.9500.sbeok.shnf

(Note: For those who're wondering what a "Sputnik jam" is, it's a label for the eerie, fingerstyle repeated chiming notes Garcia plays in many Dark Stars [and some Other Ones] from late '68 through '72. The best-known example is after 11:40 on the Live/Dead Star. This jam was most extensive in '69/70, but the examples we'll see in '71 are often just Garcia on his own, doing variations.)

2/18/71
The Dead were in high spirits for this show, the first in a long run at one of their favorite places, the Capitol Theater. They even brought multitrack recording equipment to catch any moments of magic that might arise. The first Dark Star of '71 is one of the most unusual - for starters, it's the only Star with Mickey Hart, and the last time we'll hear him playing that guiro (or 'scratcher') in the intro jam. Not only that, but there's another instrument tinkling like little bells throughout, giving this Star a very distinctive atmosphere. I used to think this was Mickey Hart on glockenspiel (something we'd heard in the 11/8/70 Star) - but it turns out it's actually Ned Lagin on clavichord! His first show with them had been the Boston 11/21/70 show (where he can't be heard); now that they were in the area again, he found himself onstage again.
(As Lagin said, "I brought my clavichord down precisely to do acoustic music with Jerry. And I sat in the first night.... I did not sit in after the first night because everyone was adjusting to Mickey's departure from the band... Jerry and I jammed during the days, clavichord and acoustic guitar." You can also hear him occasionally later in the set, as in Candyman.)

Dark Star comes early, in the first set - the crowd screams when they recognize it. Garcia loses no time after the intro in taking the music to a more 'mystical' level with a few carefully chosen high notes. The feeling is calm, meditative - but the jam flows like a liquid surge into a brief burst of ecstasy after just a couple minutes, provoking more screams from the audience. Garcia quickly calms it down for the verse, which he sings very emphatically. (Then Weir completely blows his usual post-verse notes!) Rather than going straight to a space, the band tests the waters for a bit, Garcia trying a couple different approaches as the others drop out. This is where Lagin enters the jam, with some ringing chimes. Garcia finds a high note he likes and stays there (with one delightful peal of feedback). The music slides into a luscious harmonic space (Weir echoing Lagin's chimes), but Garcia quickly bursts into the Wharf Rat chords, and the others follow - the crowd realizes they're in another song now, and cheers. This is certainly one of the most dramatic Wharf Rat entrances.
The sad tale of August West unfolds for the first time. Garcia's singing is strong, and though Wharf Rat has a few rough edges in its first outing, there's so much conviction in the song, it's still spine-chilling. (It's also uncharacteristic for a Dead song, in that Garcia just strums the chords throughout, while Weir plays the melodic part.) The little solo at the end morphs before our ears into a Dark Star space, and with a little twist of the riff Garcia brings us back to the Dark Star theme. The music speeds up, and they start a new melodic jam around two alternating chords. (Many people say this is a Tighten Up jam due to the chord resemblance - but it's not.) Garcia uses a breathtakingly piercing tone; and his playing is especially ethereal with some swoops of harmonized feedback. But Weir and Lesh also play perfectly in support, the music guiding them, all playing with one voice. The jam goes through several variations, pausing and resuming - once Garcia has had enough, he heads straight to the second Dark Star verse while the audience whistles. As the outro slowly unwinds, everyone wonders what will come next - of all things, Weir starts Me & My Uncle. After this, the band decides it's time for a break - Weir announces, "We're going to take a break, and you can watch our dust."
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-02-18.sbd.cantor-crouch-diebert-gmb.85478.sbeok.flac16

As it is, this is the least-jammed Dark Star in a long time - they wouldn't play it again for two months. It's hard to say if they just weren't in the mood for another Star, or if Hart's departure after this show made them more conservative in their song selection, or if recording the shows made them decide to focus more on songs; but the shows after this were not very adventurous. A couple days after Hart split, Weir explained to the audience, "Mickey's under the weather....he hasn't been feeling well for the past few nights." (Garcia adds, "It's strange.") Lesh says in his book, "Mickey's departure left a big hole in the band's aura...and for the first few months after that, we didn't play as well as we could have. We were in essence tiptoeing around the hole he'd left."
The main innovation of this Dark Star is not in the Beautiful Jam (if they planned that to be a regular part of Dark Star, it was short-lived since they never played it again), but in the way it breaks into a different song. In '69 and '70 they sometimes segued into a song in the middle of the jam; but they'd try it a lot more frequently during '71.
These are some earlier Dark Stars in which they'd done a mid-jam segue:
5/30/69 Dark Star>Cosmic Charlie
6/22/69 Dark Star>Other One
7/12/69 Dark Star>Other One
8/16/69 Dark Star>High Time
11/8/69 Dark Star>Other One>Dark Star
2/11/70 Dark Star>Spanish Jam
5/8/70 Dark Star>Dancing in the Streets
6/24/70 Dark Star>Attics>Dark Star>Sugar Magnolia>Dark Star
11/8/70 Dark Star>Main Ten>Dancing in the Streets
Weir's juxtaposition of a cowboy song out of the delicate grace of Dark Star was also new - they liked the effect, and would explore it a lot more in '71/72.

And finally, a discussion of the Beautiful Jam wouldn't be complete without Phil Lesh's reaction. David Gans played it for him when Lesh appeared on the "Dead to the World" radio show in 1997:
Gans: Well, you asked me to turn you on to some Grateful Dead music, Phil, and that's about the prettiest passage I know.
Lesh: Wow. Ah. Ah. When was that from?
Gans: February 18, 1971, Capitol Theater, Port Chester, NY. It was coming out of the first "Wharf Rat" ever and back into "Dark Star."
Lesh: Ohhhh....
Gans: Pretty stuff.
Lesh: Oh, that's just gorgeous.... Aw, that, that -- I'm sorry, that just, that brought tears to my eyes.
Gans: Well, good. I'm glad you liked it!
Lesh: Yeah, that's gorgeous. Is it longer than that? I mean, is there more of it?
Gans: No, that's pretty much it....

4/8/71
This Dark Star is more conventional, even restrained. Garcia doesn't seem to be in top form like he was on 2/18. (Weir, by contrast, is very high in the mix, so he jumps right out.) The big surprise of this Star is that Ned Lagin is playing electric piano! He's very quiet in the background (picked up only by vocal mikes?), but definitely present and influencing Garcia's playing. In fact, they may have played Dark Star just because he was there. (Actually, hearing him was a big shock for me, since he was completely inaudible on my old tape underneath the hum - when I listened to a digital stream and heard this mellow vibes-like sound in the intro, I first thought, "That can't be Pigpen?!")

Dark Star opens the second set. The intro is similar to 2/18, brief but dynamic - there isn't a long jam, but it swells up and fades down again on a dime; the group is tuned in and synchronized. After the verse, a big space seems to be coming, but Garcia skips it and starts a new gentle melodic pattern. The music almost dissolves into noodling - there's a cool spacy sputnik-type bit where Garcia and Lagin echo each other. As they amble quietly, Garcia keeps adjusting tones - at one moment he hits the '72 watery tone, but moves on. Almost indiscernibly, the band builds up into a jam - they turn it up, Weir slashes chords, Garcia finds a stinging tone, and before you can tell how it happened, they're in the midst of a nice, fiery climax, Garcia wailing away. Suddenly they drop to quietness again, and Garcia hones in on four soft descending notes (sort of like Feelin' Groovy). The others pick this up, and it segues into a soothing chordal jam, sounding much like an extended Wharf Rat intro, with Weir playing arpeggios around Garcia's chords. But there's no Wharf Rat this night - Garcia returns to the Dark Star theme. There's a brief cut in the second verse, then the usual transition to St Stephen.
The following Not Fade Away is very laid-back, but notable for the long Weir/Garcia dual solos into Goin' Down the Road. It's also unusual for being in the middle of the set - after a few more songs they close the show with a punchy Good Lovin'.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-04-08.sbd.deibert.83756.sbeok.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-04-08.sbd.unknown.14397.shnf (the loud hum is filtered out more, sounds cleaner)

4/26/71
This is the first of only two Dark Stars the Dead played as a quartet. It comes in the first set again, after one of their ridiculously extended tuning breaks. Within moments they sound much more energized than they had on 4/8 - everyone plunges right into the jam. This Star has that mysterious quality - purposeful, questing, exploring little corners of the music. They're easily diverted, in no hurry to reach the verse - Garcia plays a line then dances away into something else. The ever-shifting jam becomes trancelike, and time slips away - finally when the theme returns, they speed up quite a bit as they approach the verse! After the verse, they start zooming into a jam, but pull up and halt the momentum as Lesh rumbles and cymbals tap. We enter a space, the audience cheering - Garcia plays a little silvery Sputnik that opens the door to another realm of bass drones and frantic guitar notes trying to escape - Lesh slams big bass chords as Garcia's guitar twists & howls. Then the cloud lifts - Garcia changes tone and leads them out of space into a lilting, bittersweet jam, which is all too short before it peters out. Kreutzmann is right on top throughout, cruising through the guitarists' changes almost telepathically. After a few moments' indecision, Garcia starts Wharf Rat - the song still feels a bit rushed, but by now the ending solo is much more extended. This time, instead of going back into Dark Star, they just end Wharf Rat and start Casey Jones instead.
This is another pointer to the future - a Dark Star without a second verse. It's a bit disappointing that after such a promising start, Garcia would bail out midway, making this one of the shortest Stars of the year. It's also rather sad that with Duane Allman standing by, they didn't invite him on for Dark Star! [Beat It On Down The Line isn't the first song I'd think of to use his talents...]
4/26/71 isn't available for streaming on the Archive, even though apparently not a single song was used on the Ladies & Gentlemen set. (This Wharf Rat was used for the "Grateful Dead" live album, but with many alterations, so it slightly resembles the original live version.)

4/28/71
Just two days later, the New York faithful were treated to another Dark Star. (This was quite a bonus in a set that had already included tremendous jams in Morning Dew, Hard to Handle, and the Other One!) The ghosts of '69 stalk the stage as Tom Constanten joins the band, though he mostly stays in the background, and the Dead are not as expansive as the days of yore. The intro jam is short and concise tonight, the music calm but insistent. The space after the verse is more relaxed and pretty than on the 26th; there's more space between the notes. Constanten adds a lot to the space with his swirly organ sound. Garcia quietly enters a Sputnik at the edge of hearing and turns it up - it's extended this time with the others poking in. This shifts into a kind of Cumberland-style jam - Lesh starts hammering Tighten Up (as in a Dancing climax), Weir goes wild on top of this, and the music explodes in a frenzy. But all too soon they drop back into a moment of unrelieved stasis - here they fall into a second jam that slowly teases its way into the second verse. This was another very economical Dark Star! They'd already played Wharf Rat after the Other One; so with Constanten aboard, what else could follow Dark Star but a nice, rowdy St Stephen?
Released on the Ladies & Gentlemen CD. (Note that the 4/28 Other One was used for the '71 Grateful Dead live album, and the following Wharf Rat was put on Ladies & Gentlemen.)

7/31/71
This Dark Star is something special. The Stars we've seen so far in '71 wouldn't make any of the 1970 versions break a sweat - but this is the first '71 Star to pass 20 minutes, and it finds the band on a new level. (Either they did a lot of practicing since April, or they're much more confident.)
Until recently, the only recording known of this boisterous show was a decent but audience-heavy AUD, until an SBD miraculously surfaced for the Road Trips release, revealing new depths in the music. (The AUD tape used for a patch here, perhaps the master, sounds good enough to have been an excellent release on its own....) One thing the Road Trips omits is Playing in the Band - one of the early, heavier jam-free versions, which the audience claps all the way through. Surprisingly, the moment it ends, the Dead launch right into Dark Star.
Though it's been three months since they last played Dark Star live (and only five shows in the interval), it's clear right away they're getting to a new space. The playing sounds much more dense, even jazzy, the band diving into the depths of the music - in the first few minutes they flirt with several jam ideas without settling on anything. As they start the verse riff, Garcia changes his mind and they wander off again into a mini-space, the momentum suspended for a little side-trip into the void, where the music floats over a dark sea. (The audience loves this.) Lesh nudges the theme again as the music gets heavier, but Garcia is reluctant, and instead pushes the band into a remarkable, heavy little sheets-of-sound jam - finally singing the verse over 10 minutes into the song!
They're playing roughly, forcefully - the space is menacing, Lesh booming, drums rattling, Garcia doing volume swells and weird glassy chimes, the tension building up. The jam that ensues is more turbulent and raging than usual. Garcia marches out of this with a run of anticipatory notes, which in no time becomes a triumphant, soaring Feelin' Groovy that's like rockets bursting in the air. (It's worth checking out the AUD just to hear the audience shrieks here!) Garcia is so energized at this point he almost bursts into Bertha (!), but they manage to channel their focus into a new melodic jam that sounds like a new song being born. This slowly settles down into a Lesh-grounded pause, out of which Garcia starts the Dark Star theme again as the audience goes crazy. He sits out for a while as the others gently groove on the theme, and comes back for yet another jam, calmer this time, sounding more like a soothing Bird Song... Then the unbelievable happens - Garcia decides to screw the second verse, signals the others to stop, and they BLAST right into Bird Song instead!
As it happens, they're too revved-up for Bird Song to have that enchanting lullaby quality it had in the spring; but Garcia plays a mighty nice solo to end it. (And they still haven't finished the first set of the show!) There were two more Bird Songs this summer, on 8/5 (not on tape) and 8/23 (AUD only); they even rehearsed it with Godchaux, but it wasn't played live again til 7/18/72.
The SBD is on the Summer '71 Road Trips; the AUD is here -
http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-07-31.winberg.weiner.5678.gdADT05.sbefail.shnf

Unfortunately, the Dead didn't play Dark Star in their August '71 shows, though they did some amazing Other Ones. (Ned Lagin apparently joined them again, though unheard, on the two Berkeley Other Ones.) In September they picked up a new piano player who would radically change the nature of their jams. Although, sadly, we don't have a Dark Star in the circulating tapes of Godchaux's rehearsals, they must have worked on it as they started featuring it much more frequently in the next tour. There are as many Dark Stars in Godchaux's first month as there were in the first eight months of '71! It wasn't yet the every-other-night regular it would become in '72, but you can hear the band's excitement with the music on this tour. Just hearing the progression in these first three Dark Stars is quite impressive, as they go from good to great to awesome...

10/21/71
Dark Star starts at a slower tempo now - it sounds somewhat tentative, as if the band is feeling out the new player. Godchaux fills in the spaces between the guitars, but he's not just backing the band by sketching out chords, he's also taking a kind of dual lead with Garcia, following him down odd melodic paths. At the same time, his playing is very percussive - with his choice of acoustic piano rather than organ (the instrument the Dead had always used before), he doesn't go for sustain very much. (This is something the band would get rather tired of, seven years down the road!)
The music is very spacy, kind of ambient without going anywhere. Though subdued, it's interesting to hear everyone follow each other as Godchaux throws out little teases. After a few minutes, Garcia turns up the heat with a little bit of frenzy before they climb into the Dark Star theme. As the others play the theme, Garcia riffs off it for a minute, delaying the verse. Afterwards, there's no real space, they just quietly noodle for a while. There even seems to be a duel - who can play the softest? - as they get quieter and quieter. There's a nice brief bit where Garcia's volume-swelling his notes as the others tinkle like windchimes (!). Finally Garcia starts stringing some rhythmic notes together and starts a cheerful melodic jam - the way they tear into this, it's a clear embryonic ancestor of the 4/8/72 jam, with Godchaux giving more density to the rhythm. This turns into a stomping Feelin' Groovy climax that's just mind-blowing. (It's even more impressive coming after such a long stretch of quiet low-key aimlessness.) This quiets down and gives way to a short passage of atonal discordancy. In a sudden turnaround, out of nowhere Garcia starts Sittin' on Top of the World, and everyone jumps on it right away. (This was the first version since 11/5/70. I suspect they planned it; Lesh hints at it earlier.) Garcia forgets some words, but sounds enthusiastic, and Godchaux adds strong honky-tonk rhythm. Over the last chord, Lesh neatly slips in the Dark Star theme - and without any more jamming, Garcia quickly sings the last verse. As the outro ends, Weir smoothly starts Bobby McGee.
One Compendium reviewer (who was at this show) said, "Their performance was so lethargically abysmal, I thought they might as well just hang it up." (He spoke too soon! Two other Compendium reviewers, though, note this as a blissful, fantastic Star, which goes to show how subjective all this is.) Except for a few minutes in the middle, this is definitely a lazy Star, but it does point at things to come. This was the first time a country song was placed in the middle of Dark Star; and there's also some early similarity to their 1972 style, in the way they pass quickly from quiet meanderings to bursts of melodic intensity. (True, they'd been doing that in 1970 as well, but the melded focus and sudden transitions seem different now.)
http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-10-21.sbd.cotsman.5071.sbeok.shnf

1971 was the year where the Dead went wild with the idea of a jam>country song>jam medley. The first Other One>Me & My Uncle>Other One of the year was actually the famed 8/6/71 show. The Dead were happy enough with it to try it a couple more times that August (8/15 and 8/23); then it became a constant feature of the fall shows, and we'd see some variations in the Europe '72 tour as well.
There was a precedent in 1970 though, at the spectacular July Fillmore East shows:
7/10/70 Other One>Attics of My Life (!)>Other One
7/12/70 Other One>Me & My Uncle>Other One
It's odd that it took them a year to pick up on this idea again! As we saw in the earlier list, Dark Stars were being 'interrupted' by other songs long before the Other One was. But fall '71 was when the Dead started messing with audiences by diving from unhinged Dark Star jams straight into traditional country tunes, and back again.

10/24/71
Just three days later, there's a big improvement. There's more tension in the music; Garcia is playing with more bite. This Dark Star is more of a voyage, constantly going in unexpected directions, never slowing down for long - there's always a feeling that something's around the corner. On my copy, Weir and Godchaux are in the same place in the mix, so it's hard to differentiate them; they blend into one big rhythm machine.
The long intro jam climbs imperceptibly, taking its time, poking around here & there. There's a nice transition to the Dark Star theme as Garcia throws out sparkly lines over the riff. After the verse, once again there's no space, the jam simply continues uninterrupted! It starts out unhurried, then Garcia starts playing fast runs, and the others speed up with him, and soon we get that Cumberland feel. All of a sudden, the band jumps into the Tighten Up rhythm, but it's soon dropped in their fervor as they race ahead. Things get even more exciting when Garcia changes the direction of the jam and the music seems about to explode, Garcia barely able to keep up with himself. Nearing escape velocity, they quickly hit the brakes and swerve into a breezy, calming Feelin' Groovy. It soon ends, and they recharge for some moments, Lesh bubbling away high on the frets while Garcia paves the way to a new jam. The music pours out insatiably, Garcia spilling over with melodies. He repeats a pretty bright riff, and the band rips into another bout of white-hot jamming. Garcia cuts it off with a little flourish, and they suddenly coast down to a half-speed glide to prepare for a beautiful re-entry into the verse. Once again, from the outro Weir quickly segues into Bobby McGee.
This Star is much more consistent than on the 21st - rather than having one big climax, it's steadily inventive all the way through. (Garcia in particular is nonstop tonight.) It's also notable for being the last '71 Star to include both verses. (There would only be a few more in '72.) It was also one of Dick Latvala's favorite Stars.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-10-24.sbd.clugston.3292.sbeok.shnf

10/31/71
Having heard this Star so many times, it's hard not to hold it in special reverence. The playing seems especially calm, possessed, focused. From the start, Garcia's lighting a path to infinity with unimprovable playing - for example, check out the repeated notes he hits after first introducing the Dark Star theme, about five minutes in. He takes a long, piercing detour around the riff, then blazes right into into the Star theme again. After the verse, there's still no space; Garcia plays a cyclical pattern (similar to a '68 Cryptical), then he picks up on Lesh's bobbing line, and bang, they're in the middle of a hot jam. But he quickly lets it go, searching for a different approach; the others follow him, trying to establish solid ground. Garcia's very restless in this performance - he keeps shifting around, gets a handle on one line and then reaches for something else, dropping jams before they can build - so this Star doesn't have the driving forward momentum that 10/24 had. The other guys seem to be just keeping up!
Finally Garcia starts the Tighten Up riff, the first full-fledged Tighten Up in Dark Star for a year. Once the others have picked it up, he solos over the chords. In the middle it pauses, then resumes; at the climax Garcia holds onto one repeated note for several bars, then soars into a higher pitch. As the jam winds down, he changes styles, playing a sputnik-type pattern that slows to a smooth stop. It's the perfect opening for the second verse, and they hint at the Dark Star theme, but Garcia's not yet ready. He's still switching tones, nudging the others; the music gets wiry, with a more frantic edge, and they take it into a little discordant-flamenco bit (a distant ancestor of the Tiger jam). They're building up to something, tensely sustaining their notes. Godchaux brings in a stabilizing chord, and the band coalesces around it, all their overtones blending into one giant drone. Garcia holds feedback over the piano notes as Weir and Kreutzmann start Sugar Magnolia beneath the din - and a moment later, they're all in the new song. It's one of the most amazing segues they ever pulled off. (In the Europe '72 tour they'd try the Dark Star>Sugar Magnolia segue frequently - 4/14 is another striking example like this one, with Weir boldly cutting to Sugar Mag while Garcia's off deep in space.)
(Note that Godchaux is very quiet in the mix; so he sounds like more of a background player in this performance, though he does get louder as it goes along. The Compendium reviewer, by the way, called this Star flat and lifeless! "Too careful and pensive, void of any feeling," he says...)
Later on, the last St Stephen for many years is rather stiff, but Garcia pulls off some very unique soloing. He's not through for the night, either; Not Fade Away was going through a tremendous revival this fall, and his solos in this Not Fade Away will - as they say - steal your face right off your head....
Released on Dick's Picks 2.

11/7/71
Although this show is famous, the Dark Star is not one of its highlights. This Star is more condensed and fragmentary than the last two - their technique of flitting from one little jam to the next doesn't pan out so well this time around, as it seems they're not all sharing the mood. (Godchaux is a bit low in the mix here too, reduced to an echoey presence in the back.)
It starts well to audience screams - Garcia sustains a nice feedback note at the start. The intro jam is gentle, introspective, Garcia playing gracefully. Lesh is feeling rowdy tonight, playing quirky solo lines off on his own, and ignores Garcia when he tries introducing the Dark Star theme. Garcia returns to it; they digress into a little jam, and then come back a third time. The verse drops right into spacy string-scrapings, which doesn't last long as Garcia quickly abandons that idea and heads for a jam. This comes together, Garcia playing a pretty lead; but a unified jam doesn't cohere for long, as Lesh seems to want to travel his own path. After a bit of melodic noodling, finally Garcia starts playing the Other One riff - the others agree to this, and they stop for the drum solo.
By contrast, the Other One is tight and coherent. They drift into a quick spiralling space after the verse, and Weir throws in a Me & My Uncle - then the Other One resumes again in a mellow fashion as if nothing had happened. After some nice spacy jamming, they return to the verse, and come to a stop. Lesh explains: "We probably wouldn't have stopped there but we got a broken string." (The Not Fade Away to end the set isn't too shabby, either - Garcia revisits the same zone as on 10/31.)
http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-11-07.prefm.kaplan.9570.sbeok.shnf

11/15/71
Dark Star returns to the first set tonight for the last time - this version is exceptional, the closest yet to their '72 style. It's taken at a faster pace, and the intro jam is very wide-ranging. Garcia is on, his guitar lines like streaks of silver - the music ebbs and flows easily, carrying the audience down a soft transitive river. The jamming soon loses any reference to the song and becomes pure instrumental bliss, the band merging into one being - it's almost a surprise when Garcia returns to the Dark Star theme. The verse out of the way, the band plunges right into space with a boom - Lesh rattles the walls with feedback as the others enter a frantic bluegrassy jam. Weir tries to start El Paso at that tempo, but the others drown him out in a clash of wills, and the jam flows on. Garcia plays some beautiful lines to a drone string; then he & Lesh get into a brief demented duet. Weir starts El Paso again, resolved to have his way - this time Lesh joins him, and Garcia comically scratches his way into country-pickin' mode.
El Paso is a hot, dreamy version, carrying the intensity of the Dark Star jam. They come to a stop at the end, then Garcia starts a new exploration, noodling off into the unknown. Weir and Godchaux join him for a spacy interlude. (This is very much like a Europe '72 space, not really Dark Star-related but its own entity.) It soon heats up - the music percolates and things start to get hairy. Lesh goes ape in a mini-meltdown - Garcia trills his way out of this into a dark zone where the bass booms scarily over frantic guitar warbles (much like Tigers to come). But Garcia abruptly changes the scene, and slams into some hard r&b chord chops over Godchaux's piano riffing. Weir and Lesh take it up, and Garcia plays a fiery Lovelight-type solo. Eventually they calm down, and bring the jam to a trilled finish; then seem to be looking around for a transition. Garcia hints at Dark Star, but after a pause he jumps right into a surprise Casey Jones instead, the second verse of Dark Star once again forgotten.
We get another unexpected jam in the second set, in Not Fade Away - once Weir hits the China Cat jam, NFA is left behind in an uncontrollable wave of pure jamming, and it's a shock when Garcia comes back to earth & signals Goin' Down the Road.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-11-15.sbd.set2.jupille.7735.shnf

12/5/71
This is a strong, unique Dark Star which doesn't have any verses! Whenever you think one's coming, they head for a country song instead. It's also very spacy - the Dead continue in the same vein as 11/15, of pure jamming without structure. Here the music is a lot like it would be in '72, flowing unconsciously into realms of extended moodiness. The FM broadcast has a very rich sound - like a matrix, it includes audience mikes, though they're turned down during the songs.
The crowd is delighted to hear Dark Star. It starts out relaxed and confident - there's a very jazzy feel in this one, enhanced since the piano and drums are mixed louder than in other versions. Lesh is in a melodic mood, Kreutzmann drumming circles around everyone, and the music drips like butter, never staying still for long... The band gets so involved in the jamming they don't even bother with a verse. They build up to a mini-Feelin' Groovy jam, then slide helplessly into a wild little meltdown. Out of that, it seems like they're heading into a melodic jam, but it suddenly turns into a blazing Me & My Uncle, an incredible segue.
The last chord of Uncle returns instantly to the Dark Star jam, the tempo guided by Kreutzmann. But immediately, before you know it, they're back in a reflective quiet zone. The music floats weightlessly, notes lingering in space - Garcia plays pretty, melancholy lines, culminating in violin-like volume swells, as Lesh presses in threateningly. They all enter an intense space, high-pitched notes echoing off each other and the drums kicking in. Godchaux pushes upfront with mad clusters of notes while Garcia becomes more frenetic (in another proto-Tiger). Garcia scrubs the way into another drawn-out meltdown of scrapes, rattles, hums & drum-blows. They emerge into another ominous space, Lesh droning while Garcia trills. The music teeters on the edge until they reach a crescendo of primordial noise. Godchaux insistently repeats a little riff over and over, until the others form a new jam around him - but it quickly dissolves and returns to the void. They hover in stillness, dominated by bass and drums. Finally, Lesh starts the Dark Star theme, but Garcia's found a chiming trance-riff and ignores it. They head for another jam, but Weir seems to be having trouble, as his amp is just making strange buzzing noises. Disregarding him, they go into the Dark Star theme anyway, sounding a bit hyper and speedy. When Weir returns, it seems like they're ready at last to start the verse - but Garcia doesn't feel like it and instead nags the others with the Sittin' on Top of the World intro until they catch on, then they dive into that song - an awkward segue, though the crowd appreciates it! (It's not the best Sittin' either, as Garcia sounds unready for it and it takes a while to build up steam. They hadn't played it since 10/21, though it became a little more common for a few months after this.)
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-12-05.fm.matera.100316.sbeok.flac16

12/15/71
Dark Star starts the second set tonight - this one's more conventional, but just as inspired. It starts out smiling, with a long ten-minute intro jam that streams along intuitively. It's amazing how closely they follow each other - they pounce on the slightest hint and change directions in an instant, weaving like a school of fish. The band often drops out to let Garcia take the lead; there's one quiet section where he leads, that builds astonishingly to a loud, intense climax - this gradually unwinds in a rushing cascade that sounds like it's heading for an Other One. About nine minutes in, it's like the heavens suddenly burst open as a frantic jam pours out - then Garcia drops the energy in an instant and switches to the Dark Star theme.
There's a very nice, quiet space after the verse (you can hear the crowd digging it). To a backdrop of Weir and Godchaux's tinklings, Garcia rides some volume swells, then trembles his strings with a slide. Their notes are swallowed up by darkness, as the space fills with silence. In the stillness, Garcia starts noodling and gets into a little quasi-sputnik, but in the meantime Weir, Kreutzmann, and Lesh are piecing together bit by bit an odd, unique lounge-style instrumental (sounding more like something from '73). Once the band has eased into this, they play it at length, til it slowly dissolves and transforms into a more spirited, driving jam. Garcia brings this to a finish with some high notes and quickly hops right into a honky-tonk Deal - which is unremarkable.
The set is notable for ending with a rare late-'71 Lovelight in which Pigpen is back on form, including a blues jam in the middle and ending with a wild raveup.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-12-15.sbd.miller.97718.sbeok.flac16

3/23/72
After our little tour of '71, it might also be worth taking a look at the first Dark Star of 1972. Turns out, this Academy of Music Star is not much like the half-hour monsters that would soon follow in Europe. It most closely resembles the 10/21/71 Star, in being mainly aimless until redeeming itself in a climactic jam. By now Garcia has developed the Tiger jam - he'd been doing some meltdowns in his January '72 shows with Wales, and this Star has a distinct resemblance to some of those crazed jams. (Sonically, Garcia's tone sounds thinner here than in '71. He and Lesh are way up in the mix here though, so this Star is mainly their show - it doesn't sound like Weir is doing much.)
The intro jam is much shorter than in late '71, less than five minutes. It stays close to the Dark Star theme - Garcia tries out a quiet sputnik variation, then awkwardly launches into the Dark Star riff. He has a hard time adjusting the tempo and strays off-time, so they keep coming back to the riff. After the verse, they settle down into space and drift quietly, Garcia and Godchaux tinkling high notes. Garcia starts a lightly wah'd trickle, while Lesh putters around off on his own, testing out the speakers. Garcia digs into an aggressive repeating riff, and the others join in for a little jam which immediately dies down. Here the mayhem starts as Garcia starts spiralling around, Lesh spurts out atonal bass grunts, and Kreutzmann kicks into action. Lesh, determined to go farther out than Garcia, turns up the volume and disgorges random, bizarre chunks of ground-up bass innards. (Or as the Compendium puts it: "Bonk, bonk, BONK!") The band descends into a meltdown while Lesh revs like a motorcycle - Garcia launches a short Tiger, and discordancy rules the stage. Lesh rams in loud chords as if trying to drown out everyone, but the others have calmed down and a more normal mood is returning. (This was much hairier than the Tiger they did in the 3/21 Other One!)
Around the 15-minute mark, a more structured jam finally starts - out of this, Lesh starts a 'happy' chord run. Garcia picks it up right away and soars spontaneously into a waterfall of melody. The band catches fire, and out of nowhere this tremendous jam turns into Feelin' Groovy. After a few minutes Garcia gracefully winds it down - but then unexpectedly bursts back into a Sugar Magnolia-type variation. For a few moments any direction is possible as the music opens up (Weir even hints at China Cat) - but Garcia drops back into the Dark Star riff instead of going further. We get the second verse, which would be a rarity in '72, then they totally screw up the outro. Kreutzmann sounds like he wants to start the Not Fade Away drumbeat, but the others just stop.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-03-23.sbd.miller.100000.sbeok.flac16

(There's a possible early version of that ending jam: it's a short, laid-back 40-second jam in the tuning break after Sugar Magnolia, in this show:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-12-02.sbd.lai.6255.sbeok.shnf
The tracking isn't very good - the jam starts in the last 10 seconds of Sugar Mag, and continues at the start of "tuning" - just when it starts to take off, they stop it dead for tuning, of course. But it's possible to hear a similarity...)

That last Dark Star makes me wonder how much they'd practiced it over the winter months - while a song like Playing in the Band had grown by leaps & bounds from its '71 counterpart (probably due to rehearsals for Weir's Ace album), the Dark Star is uncoordinated and hasn't progressed much since '71.
They didn't do any more Stars in the Academy of Music run - however, they did do three Other Ones. (Unfortunately, the one from the 26th still doesn't circulate, being locked in the Vault, but it's an enticing-looking Other One>Me & My Uncle>Other One>Wharf Rat that hopefully will see daylight soon.) These shows, in hindsight, were something of a test run for the Europe tour [they were meant to help finance the trip], and we can hear the band growing in confidence even in the shows we have. Check out the astonishing jump from the relatively restrained 3/21 Other One to the spectacular blowout on 3/28! (Which is then put in the shade by the next one on 4/7.)
Our next Dark Star, from the damp shores of England, takes the music to a new level. One reason the Dark Stars of 1971 are often ignored is because of what would happen in Europe. Not only are the Stars performed much more often, at twice the length of most '71 Stars, they're touched by the fires of inspiration and filled with the songs of the spheres. But that's a story for another day....

Garcia, 1971: "If it were possible for us to be able to survive playing music that was as potentially free and open as Dark Star, it's likely that we would do that... We're trying to guide ourselves into a place where we can become more music, where we can play more music and have it get to higher places and express finer and subtler things."

http://deadessays.blogspot.com

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Poster:	Anakin West	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 7:14am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Wow. Fantastic post. I've ben a serious lurker here for some time (and off and on for years). I had to comment on this, because it's going to make my day - or more likely my week, to have some intense focused listening, with great context to refer to. Thanks!

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Poster:	elbow1126	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:45pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Thanks for a great essay today. Inspired me to listen to 10-31-71 at work which I thoroughly enjoyed. Bit of shame that this thread kind of went off the deep end. I guess that is the way of this forum though. c'est la vie, it is still the coolest place on the internet.

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Poster:	snori	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:20am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Thanks once again for another fascinating essay, LIA. I've been listening to 18/2, 26/4 and 28/4 recently. I'll need to refresh my memory of the others in '71, but it seems to me that the Dark Stars have the beauty and the Other Ones have the intensity in this year. Which is just how I like it.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 1:00pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

well there goes my Monday work day...

T -H - A - N- K -S !

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Poster:	GennyBenni	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 10:05am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Wow.

I've always loved the 10/31/71 dark star, and it's my dad's favorite. But to be honest I never gave the rest of that disc very attentive listening; I felt I had heard enough NFA > GDTRFB > NFA 's. But I'm checking it out now.

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Poster:	Capt. Cook	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 3:35pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Waiting am I for "Another Day" when you contunue on with the 1972 Star's. Wsted about 2 hours of the bosses time readin your post - subversive and insightful is a greatway to kill time...

Startin the think Steppin Out With The Grateful Dead might be the best release they've done thus far...

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:16am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Wow, thanks for that. Just when I was thinking based on other recent posts here, there wasn't much point to hanging around here.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:07am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Oh great--that's it; just rub it in...don't worry, I won't bump my post up to replace it (insert sarcasm indicator here...jk).

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 7:02am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

No, not you - RB or whatever his name is below.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 7:17am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Oh yeah--I fig'd; just joking...

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 7:56am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

RingO; not that it's my place to advise, but I had to actually look to find what you were getting at, and I agree completely with your sentiment, but as you have gathered, those kinds of battles were fought and lost long ago around here...ie, pleas for restraint. My approach is to simply ignore the names/posters associated with the ones I have been bothered by, and pretty soon, I am oblivious to them (that's why even though I didn't think you mean "me", I had no idea anything had "happened" cause I just skipped them...). I know for a newcomer that might end up feeling like you're skipping a great deal, but once we you have established rel'ships with enough folks, you almost always find one of the regulars to respond to, start up a new thread, etc., and just let the other stuff lie...

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 9:06am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Well, I seriously am not a prude (and then I am also saved from being offended quite often because I just don't get stuff.) But apparently there is some kind of moderation around here somewhere that removes some things? I would nominate that stupid song for removal. Maybe I'm being uncool because it's making a point or something, but I was offended. Especially coming completely out of left field - the thread was about the US/Canada hockey game! WTF did the little sex abuse ditty have to do with anything? Does it occur to these guys there are people this has *happened to* who don't think it's so funny? (I don't mean me, but how about just some humanity guys? jokes about fucking your daughter aren't funny).

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 2:37pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I agree that the song is out of context, so what? It's not offensive.
You know it's a satire. It's not pro pedophile. Frank was making a statement about a very common taboo. Heck I think the song should get air play since it will stir up this nasty business that plagues this puritanical county...

SEX!!!!

What is offensive is you asking for censorship because you don't understand whats being said.

It should also be added that many people here will treat you differently because your a woman. I would not let on. It's pathetic to watch.

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:16pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I guess I don't really agree that song is about sex.

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Poster:	vapors	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:41pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Hey - you’d think that most would accept the rope we feed them to pull them out of the pit they have dug, yet some will dig anew all the more furious. They seem to enjoy the depths.

Don’t feed the nasty trolls.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:18pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Look Vapors I also have a vaporizer, I have a feeling we could be friends... so listen to this. I'll dig you new hole until you get this.... Zappa manages to make fun of the GD in song yet still Jerry opens for his shows. (true) (listen to Zappa you will not regret!) O.K. Zappa was a cool as it gets. Being controversial was important in the days before we where all brain washed by the political correct police! I'm no troll and Zappa ain't no peder-ass! Yes I posted quite a bit today. Out of rage nobody was willing to point out that that song is not offensive it simply deals with a controversial topic. Zappa was into satire and social commentary. It was well known at the time. Being offended by this song means you are a peder-ass yourself! Dude where is my underground scene? Vap, also you have never given me a rope to climb out on...so don't act like you are reaching out to make peace or any such thing. I'll smoke the peace pipe with anybody here. I'll cover you back and be loyal to you. When I don't like you crap I'll tell you! Step up, BRO! I admit I had to edit this post because I can't spell and have trouble string words together.... I do have a story to tell!
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:16:27
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:18:59

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Poster:	mickmac	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:05pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I love Zappa. I dont love beating a deathless horsie.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:15pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I'll take that rope and ride that dead horse out of this thread...

thanks!

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:06pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

You don't think there is more to it? Look up Zappa and you find he was not a pedder-ass. He is making a statement about repressed sexuality and it's not a nice picture. If I write a story about rape does that make me a rapist? It's pretty obvious that Zappa is into satire... I figure everybody knew his shtick? I doubt you are as simple minded as you sound. How do you feel about Sugaree? I could list any number of GD songs that are sexist to max! If not sexist violent or just plan stupid. (TJ) The GD had quite a reputation for being a macho kinda group and it was hard for Betty Cantor to hold her ground. I'm sure Donna did not have an easy job either... I mean it's time you open up your eyes. Somebody posting and old zappa song should not pierce you skin to the point where you are looking make a black list or need censorship. I was hoping somebody else would chime in but the regulars where more interested in impressing the girl and did not step up to defend Zappa. It was nice to see WT admit that naming people would get him in trouble and him letting us sort it out. And IMHO (in my humble opinion) you are a prude if you think that song so offensive.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:00:39
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:06:35

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Poster:	direwolf0701	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 10:01pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

"I was hoping somebody else would chime in..."

ask and you shall receive.

Zappa crap/discussion notwithstanding, you sir are a dick (as is your Jackoff Hughes alter ego)

WT is too much a gentleman to point this out (but since I am not, i will.) You spell worse than my 10 year old > your prowess is the art of debate is, might i propose, severely lacking > and your intellect has apparently regressed to a period in evolution marked by the initial appearance of mitochondrial dna (assuming there was at one time a point from which you may have first regressed.)

To sum up (or reiterate, however you wish to view it).... you are a fuckin' tool.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:01am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

yeah well Dire, I guess that makes two of us. I prefer WT lighter touch to your insults. I already mentioned I can't spell. I'm dyslexic and what I'm saying just is not that offensive... Giving me a hard time about spelling = barrel, fish = shotgun... Come on brother you don't want to be a Zappa hater, insecure about some random post guy do you? I got like no beef with you you know.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:01:13

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Poster:	direwolf0701	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:23am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

cannot say i am a Zappa hater, but I have never really thought much of his music - more a personal/auditory decision rather than anything about Zappa as a person, etc.

and i will tip my cap to you for the decision not to return a vitriolic personal assault toward me. well done.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 9:35pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I would note that knowing Ring O as well as I do, it is the outright pedophile posts and pics that are upsetting (I agree completely), not necessarily lyrics. Knowing Zappa's penchant for pushing the envelope, I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss or divine his true intention, since as you note, he was a complex man (an idiot too, for what he let his prostate do to him, but that's between him and his world view on the medical profession). However, I would also point out that this whole biz about however it is that I happen to chat with the gals, the very few that show now and again, is between me and them...and, the notion it is offensive to them, has been put to rest...how can you possibly take the innocent accolades that pass for a polite "how do you do" for anything other than respect? If you've come late to the conversation about the fact that Miss D and I chatted about going to a prom one fine day years ago, and that we connected off site for various reasons, but one of which was to be sure such jokes/quips/etc. were not misconstrued, how do you jump to the conclusion that I am some sort of misfit groveling for attn? It seems to me that the only one suppressing free speech would the one to continually comment on conversations between two individuals on the Forum in which neither of the individuals involved ever seem to have an issue with the tone, the words, or the implications...

As I have said many times before, when one single participant in "my" back and forth exchanges lets me know anything whatsoever was out of line, even mildly offensive or off base, that's all it'd take for me to back off, apologize, or whatever...but the odd thing is that has never happened...all that has happened is that the folks that don't know squat about the relationships (admittedly, odd little web relationships) seem to be upset by it...

What's that all about? What is so bothersome about it? I'd say it reveals more about the commentators than the two individuals involved...

Oh, and sorry if you're not the one that keeps mentioning it; you did hear, and in the one as Jacky Hughes, but maybe I've got that wrong.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:02am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

WT No idea what pics or posts your referring to but the Zappa song was taken out of context and misunderstood. BTW i find hearing about how you know people so well personally, boring, all I can see is the posts. If you knew me personally then what? and yeah I'm not making any Jacky Hughes references... get it straight! WTF are you guys talking about? Wait , DON'T TELL ME, it sounds retarded already. While slightly OT check this out! This is relevant to he tape thread also, BTW. There were failings at the heart of the hippie mentality that led to its easy co-option by the record industry. The hippies' accommodation to class society was expressed in their idealism, which recycled one of the basic tenets of middle-class ideology: the belief that true values are above commerce, above the here-and-now of material society. Unlike rock'n'roll, this meant that its relation to a mass audience could only be hypocritical. It explains why hippie bands were invariably photographed in the countryside: the `non-commercial' (as opposed to Zappa's anti-commercial) floats outside time in idealized nature. By contrast, Absolutely Free (1967) depicted a cityscape blocked with traffic. Zappa mentioned how disappointed he was with the music of the San Francisco scene, and it is easy to see why: its anthemic, folk-based meanderings had little relationship to either R&B or Edgar Varese. Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, the Quicksilver Messenger Service provided a kind of pastel wallpaper to the hippie lifestyle.... Part of the hippie ethos was a hazy contempt for `product'; this entailed lifestyle soundtracks without great aesthetic ambitions. Everyone was only too happy to hear Jerry Garcia plunking away as they rolled their joints. These bands were explicitly pro-drugs, which directly contradicted what Zappa felt was a freak principle (though of course there had been plenty of drug-taking in LA). Most of all it was the philosophy that offended Zappa: in engaging with it he worked out a species of materialism, a defense of secular imagination and real-time capability that is truly inspiring (unless of course you are a hippie or an idealist, in which case he just bursts your balloon). Freak Out! is still fascinating - not because it represents some purist alternative, but because it uses commercialism against itself. Zappa was still capable of playing off-the-leash, socking R&B (and showed this on `Trouble Every Day'), but he was too fascinated by contradiction to restrict himself to that base. The leering threat of Freak Out! a terrorizing hint that something unspeakably filthy is going on, was brilliantly coordinated with cover graphics and liner notes: it was designed to catch the interest of anyone as jaded as Zappa with the conformist rigmarole of high school. A record of `well-played' blues and avant-garde composition could not achieve the same miasma of defilement as achieved by perverting innocent pop. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1510/is_n89/ai_18109996/ Yeah the little world we live is ain't perfect!
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:02:15

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:40am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

sorry--you and the poster Jacky Hughes appear to be the same poster; isn't that obvious what was meant? If you're not, fine; but becuase you say the same things, the inference was reasonable, right?

And, frankly, anyone that uses the term "retarded" is just not worth the time of day...

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Poster:	bluedevil	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:46am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

http://tinyurl.com/yg2xppx

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:47am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

"Sorry videos are not currently available in your country."

Discrimination! Out and out discrimination!

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 10:35am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Honestly WT, I don't know who you are talking about.

I have tried to talk sense with you but I guess anything other and a full on ass kissing does not work for you.

Just because I can't spell and don't kiss you royal behind does not mean I'm this other guy, whom I don't know or care about

May I suggest stepping out from under the rock you call your home?

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 3, 2010 8:45am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Sorry then, the Jacky Hughes poster is someone different...but, you do still use the term "retarded", right?

Gotta defense for that one?

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 3, 2010 8:58am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Honestly, old friend, I'd just let it go. I don't believe he's Jacky H., but he certainly is a bullshit baffler of the first order. Get back to enjoying your mountain while you can. (First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is ...)

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 3, 2010 9:08am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Good for you--gotta finish my giant sized coffee first...and besides, the anti73 replies will be flooding in at any moment, so I'll give them a few moments.

Hey, at least the gals continue to stand by me, so that counts for something, eh? Hope all is well with you.

You know, I may be hypercritical, but I always felt that the sorts of satire Zappa espoused was no great shakes. I'd take Tom Lehrer any day (there, maybe that'll get him going...hmmm, scratch that).

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 3, 2010 9:20am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I'm happy to admit that I'm no great fan of Zappa's. He was an ok guitarist, had a degree of originality and tried to innovate a little, but definitely not as smart lyrically as many would like to believe he was. Satire need not mean losing your audience through offensiveness, Lehrer knew that. Then again, I'm sure there are many members of Zappa's audience who consider offensiveness to be a definite plus.

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 6:05pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I guess I didn't see this yesterday but this business about you and "the girls" is completely silly. Just really.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 3, 2010 8:47am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Well, thank you for that...I figure that a little obsequi Es Ness is not necessarily a bad thing, but somehow, it REALLY riles up some of the other guys round here...the minute one of the gals says "oooeuuuwww!" then it's over...in reality though, I have spoken in almost the exact same tones with many a "guy" round here, and accused of being gay (fine by me) for it in the early years...

Really no biggie; but the fact that folks keep brining it up, and my worry wart anal retentive nature causes ME to keep revisiting it...so, all the positive reinforcment the better.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 9:14am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Couldn't agree more...started out here in the early "PM" days as one that tried to get all sorts of things "regulated", but the folks that run the site take a very hands off approach, so it has to be a real stinker. So, though I agree with you about that song, and many rap songs EG, I imagine the powers that be would place it under "free speech", blah, blah, blah...then we are "lost" because appealing to the "humanity" (which is what I always tried), generally makes it worse...so, given there are really fewer than five posters that do this kind of stuff, and again don't mean to sound smug/competent, but it doesn't take long to just tune them out.

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 9:44am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Maybe you'd better tell me who they are then, so I will finally learn. There are people who freaked me out at first who I then realized are just a little rough around the edges and mean no harm ...

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 10:41am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Hmmm--now you're going to get me in trouble! How about the converse: I can certify that you may find some foul language, but nothing to ruffle your feathers beyond that if you stick with posts by Arbuthnot, Ashes Rising,...[assumed you saw all of those so I deleted them--don't want to have any hurt feelings, right?] What I would recommend NEVER opening is a post by skies following one of mine--it won't be pretty.
This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-03-01 18:41:00

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 10:50am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

thanks much and sorry for the threadjack here. back to dark star ...

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Poster:	bluedevil	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 11:00am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Both Dire and I are self-confessed assholes and are more likely than not to take a thread way off topic. If musical insight/knoweldge is what you seek, steer well away from our posts (but keep your eyes out for my upcoming comprehensive post on the history of Day Job).

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Poster:	direwolf0701	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 11:22am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

me?? steering threads away from their intended purpose?? perish the thought!!

i am, however, eagerly awaiting your thesis on Day Job - i am certain it will be riveting and required reading for all heads who truly appreciate the GD at their musical, creative finest!

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Poster:	Capt. Cook	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 3:31pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Could you possibly do the I Will Take You Home compendium/emotional barometer/detailed performance history and sort it such a way as to really capture, and not just attempt, we had enough of that in the freakin Olympics, but hold in your hand the raw essence of this raw and tender ballad is too simple a word for it...

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 11:30am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I have no objection to off topic posts, for the record; just completely unexpected and pointless obscenities.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 1:37pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Dude, the only obscenity is in you mind. Your way of topic not to mention you being a prude and judgmental dick. I am very glad the folks who run this site UNDERSTAND the nature of free speech because it's clear that many here don't. The last thing we need here are more moderators. (self described or otherwise) Censorship is hardly called for, so TOUGHEN UP KID. Just remember you might be a prude! Frank called you out!
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-01 21:37:45

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 2:08pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

It seems evident that your espousal of free speech doesn’t extend to including people who might disagree with you. ‘Toughen up kid’ is hardly an invitation to rational debate is it?

Paedophilia IS an obscenity; it’s something that rightly makes most people feel very uncomfortable and which they would rather not even think about, never mind discuss. However, I absolutely believe that Ringolevio could debate you into the ground on the subject. I would just love to hear your defence of kiddy porn on the grounds of freedom of expression.

The sexual exploitation of minors is a deeply serious topic that doesn’t deserve to be half-wittedly interjected into a hockey game discussion because some fucking idiot found a song with a Canadian placename in it. That is just trivialising and demeaning and, Ringolevio will correct me if I’m wrong, that’s what’s so objectionable about the whole thing.

Just remember you might be an asshole.

I’m calling you out.

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Poster:	bluedevil	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 2:17pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I section that motion and extend kudos for dropping in the subsequent Zappa reference....

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:43am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I would debate her fair and square... Toughen Up is barely hard language...she can handle it. This is about a very socially conscience Frank Zappa song... It's call satire. It's NOT a pro pedophile song dude! It's about how repressed and internally tormented "the squares" are... open up your mind.. 99 percent of your fears will never come to pass. And Rob, you have the right to your opinion... what ever that is anyway? Love and grass. the groover...
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:43:54

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 3:00pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I wouldn’t be too sure of your debating skills if I were you.

This is fundamentally NOT about what Zappa hoped to achieve by writing this ‘very social conscience’ (sic) song because I’ll bet he didn’t want its message to be trivialised by having it taken out of context and used for cheap laughs. And just exactly how is it about ‘squares’ being ‘repressed and internally tormented’? Enlighten me, oh wise one!

My mind is open – just not so open that you can hear the wind whistle through…

Debate me, boy.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 3:50pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Look dude, You are right Frank did not mean for his song to be quoted like that... no argument. The offense here is that some claimed the song was some pedophile anthem. It ain't. I believe that you are a smart person. Read the lyrics. Think about it for a second. You don't need me to debate this. The man he sings about is not a hero. Frank is describing a condition that is highly uncool. Frank is pointing out how repressed sexually is a bad thing. Plain and simple. Ringvo (whatever) had no reason to be offended, it was random that's about all. So to me the posturing around the false offense was VERY offensive to me! The call for censorship is lame. If she is strictly a scholar then she had no business reading a thread about hockey anyway... Don't cry Wolf for no reason or you will be ignored when you need help. BTW Robby, this the wrong place to try to impress with your debating skills... LOL give me a break, are you running for office? Just so you know, I'll debate you any old time you think your up of a good whipping. If you think you have a leg to stand on I would like to hear about it.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-01 23:44:18
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-01 23:50:53

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 3:47pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Before we go any further I would like to withdraw my earlier suggestion that you might be an asshole.

You ARE an asshole.

“If she is strictly a scholar then she had no business reading a thread about hockey anyway...” What the fuck are you on, son? Hockey is off limits for scholars? It’s just for dim bulbs like you, huh? Hey, no censorship, except let’s not have those fucking intellectuals watching our hockey games and making fun of our lame sexist gags. Right fucking on!

As, somewhat unsurprisingly, it seems to have escaped your notice, let me point out to you that this actually is a place where debating skills count for something. This is an open forum where views are exchanged and defended – and if you can’t handle that then fuck off back to kiddy korner. Dude.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 4:06pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Obviously you lack any sense of humor kiddo. The scholar bit is called humor. Remember the dead where just a rock band...obviously we all are dead heads... You have nothing to base your debate on. Your wrong about the song is all. You have lost the argument. You end with my exact argument, Toughen up Kid. another way to say... if you can't play with the big dogs stay on the porch. You debating sucks, I'll bet you loose the election! Ohh yeah and it's me pointing you to the kiddy corner... off to bed with you . no dinner! Furthermore calling me and "asshole" is in fact very a very assholy thing to do. Very mature Rob. For the LAST TIME it was not a SEXIST gag! You simply did not understand the song...if that song is a sexist you are insulting and misrepresenting Zappa and that kiddo is offensive... get it? It's was a random gag. The song is not offensive...it just had some random Canada reference. Ring-y did not understand others made it worse and in the end Zappa looked like a peder-ass... uncool!
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 00:06:20

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 4:09pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

A sense of humour is only triggered by something funny. Admittedly you are funny, but just not in the way that you think.

How can I have lost the argument when you haven’t even begun to argue?

Fish + barrel + shotgun = no fun for me.

And by the way, retrospectively editing your posts in the forlorn hope that it’ll make you look better doesn’t make you a big dog. It makes you a pussy.

Bye bye!

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 8:36pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Look Rob. Let's leave it like this. Rob(wordhammingfool) thinks Zappa is a peder-ass. I think Zappa was cool and had a good message. Rob would rather toss Zappa under the bus so he looks cool to some random forum member... You called me names.. You have very weak debating skills, better you face that here than at starbucks... Everybody edits there posts...snowflake! You clam we have not started, because you are loosing. Sounds to me like you just can't admit that you where wrong.. you did not read the lyrics and just typed.... In the end I can be friends will all, I'm just not going to let you talk shit about Zappa is all.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 00:24:48
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 04:36:41

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Poster:	direwolf0701	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 8:54pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

"You clam we have not started, because you are loosing. Sounds to me like you just can't admit that you where wrong.." and I thought that I was the worst in failing spell checking! furthermore - dude, it might be best to let it rest. you ARE "loosing" the argument (either that or not quite getting what the discussion is really about) are you and Jackie Hughes one in the same person? your verbal skills are similarly challenged. just asking...
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2010-03-02 04:54:45

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:46am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Run away with you weak arguments or make a point that is not wrong, insulting or weak. See ya Rob.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:46:40

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:24pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I'm not one to run away Rob... Made my points: -Franks song is not pro peder-ass. -Ring-o need not have taken offense, she over reacted, did not get the reference. Should have looked up who Zappa was! -Nobody had the balls to defend Zappa. -People forget how important free speech is until it's to late. -many folks in the forum treat women differently then men. (in a creepy and offense way) -the forum IS NOT starbucks and much closer to a free speech zone! (thank god!) -the Canadians winning the game is not without controversy. -new and improved posts are not always to be taken very serious. -we all need more humor -light into ashes is as close to a professor as we are going to get round here. THANKS AGAIN! LiA Rocks You decide if they are weak.... clearly I could have been more constructive today. I also learned a lot about Dark star. In the end it a tune that I can only relate to sometimes. There are some epic DS out there but I don't feel bad skipping it from time to time... NOTHING is sacred.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:24:08

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 9:59am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

If my point was at the end of a sharpened stick being applied to your nether regions I doubt you'd get it. I am no longer inclined to apply my head to the brick wall of your invincible ignorance so do us all a favour and cease and desist the tedious post amendments. And to think you had the brass-balled nerve to call Tell boring...

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 11:16am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Rob I know you think you got it all worked out... but you don't even know the meaning of "satire". You had ample opportunity to prove yourself smart or insightful. I make no such claims about myself, I'm a simple man with spelling problems that has his OWN opinions and does not kiss the behinds of other men. I never (still don't) have an issue with you. I find you entertaining. Question Authority!
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 19:16:31

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Poster:	robthewordsmith	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 11:16am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Though the world is so full of a number of things,
I know we should all be as happy as
But are we?
No, definitely no, positively no.
Decidedly no. Mm mm.
Short people have long faces and
Long people have short faces.
Big people have little humor
And little people have no humor at all!
And in the words of that immortal buddy
Samuel J. Snodgrass, as he was about to be lead
To the guillotine:

Make 'em laugh
Make 'em laugh

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Poster:	bluedevil	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 2:30pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

who's wearing pojamas?

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Poster:	cush212	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 2:16pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Down boy...

;)

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Poster:	vapors	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 1:58pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

I disagree – I often can’t help but wonder what a little bit of moderation could do for this forum. You may enjoy exercising your “free speech” - to me you’ve shown nothing worth listening to.

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Poster:	cush212	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 1:45pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

First off, ringolevio is a woman, so why don't you treat her with a little respect stupid?

2nd, This is a public forum, do you talk like that at your starbucks or supermarket? Do they even allow you in???

3rd, I first heard Zappa live in 1966... Where were you? Did you even have pampers to poop in, or speak into as the case may be???

4th, Your not worth any more of my time. Find out who you're calling out before you do it again dumbass!!!

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:19pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Dear Cush. I don't care if she is a girl or a boy. In this context it's irrelevant. (unlike you I'm not attempting to impress her =) I respect folks for there intellectual capacity amongst other things... If this place is a Starbucks get me the hell out! Sorry to hear you are so old. Again it's irrelevant, so don't worry. Frank was prolific did not have to see him in 66 to get the satire... Thanks for your time... I love you just the same as I love you all. I don't mind sharing my time with you, brother...sister what ever... In fact if we where stilling round the hookah we would be fast friends for sure... To those so easily offended. Feel free to start you own forum where only your friends can agree with you... I like the Dark Star, I despise the narrow mind, I call it how I see it. Feel free to have YOUR VERY OWN OPINION. Just so you know, # 4 is called a COP OUT.... you got nothing why did you even speak up? (I suspect your attempting to impress the girls)
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-01 23:49:21
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 01:19:13

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 5:48pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

As I noted in the other thread, it is possible I overreacted. It's certainly possible I don't get the song. And yes I know the dead were sexists too .. just not that bad (jeez).

So it's about sexual repression? - if you're sexually repressed you'll turn out like this guy who wants to do his daughter? Hm. Not *quite* sure I buy that, but I'll think about it.

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Poster:	groovernut	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 10:50pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/7248602/the_immortals__the_greatest_artists_of_all_time_71_frank_zappa http://www.deaddisc.com/GDFD_Refs.htm Hey I'm not a very good writer and the concepts in my mind are not simple to communicate so I appreciate you working with me on getting this across! we both overreacted.
This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 06:50:51

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 6:10pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

P.S. Sorry I really could not get back today, but do intend to look at your links and appreciate.

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Poster:	ringolevio	Date:	Mar 2, 2010 5:50am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Thanks for this - I will take a look at the links at lunch today.

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 6:04am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Amazing quote by Phil there with Gans, huh? That has to be one of the all time gems you've uncovered! I mean to me that is so revealing about how doing what you're doing, but not really being away of it (even with monitors, I guess, you don't really "hear" it? Or, is it just that you forget it?)....I suppose with them playing as much as they did, maybe the latter is true (forgetting it). But think if it was something else you did, like playing bball...you can recall hundreds of different game winning shots, or passes, or whatever...

Anyhow, I think that that passage with Phil is just outstanding stuff...

Thanks.

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Poster:	cush212	Date:	Mar 1, 2010 8:43am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: Dark Star 1971

Very well done LIA! Thank you!!!

PS What did you do for the rest of the weekend?

;)