|
Poster:
|
elbow1126 |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:10am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Not sure but it seems odd that they would play Lovelight twice in the same show, right?
|
Poster:
|
skuzzlebutt |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:13am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Exactly. Deadlists states that everything from "Born Cross-Eyed" on is from another, unknown date.
|
Poster:
|
midnightcarousel |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:10am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
They did that sometimes. On 6/14/69 two lovelights bookended the show. (or set?)
|
Poster:
|
elbow1126 |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:21am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Indeed you are correct! I tried to do a search to see how many times this was done and it was impossible. Interestingly while deadlists has the 3-30-68 show down twice for Lovelight it only lists the 6-14-69 show once. Making it even more difficult is that some are listed as Lovelight while others listed as Love Light.
|
Poster:
|
Cliff Hucker |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:45am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Lovelight was played more than once at a performance at least 14 times (including Lovelights containing a drum break)
A true Lovelight "sandwich" would be where the song both opened and closed a show. One of the best Lovelight sandwiches in my opinion was on 2/28/70...
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-02-28.sbd.cotsman.9377.sbeok.shnf
|
Poster:
|
skuzzlebutt |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 8:00am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Cliff, you are a big '68 guy- what's the deal with 3/30? Any idea if it's from two different dates?
|
Poster:
|
Cliff Hucker |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 8:13am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
One of the mysteries of 1968, we may never know the true facts about this. I believe that the material after the first Lovelight is in fact from a another performance. To my ears, both the source and vibe is slightly different. But it is entirely possible that two sets were performed on that night and that Lovelight was played twice...
|
Poster:
|
elbow1126 |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:50am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Cliff I was not counting lovelight sandwiches, I was only looking for having two true lovelights.
|
Poster:
|
robthewordsmith |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:15am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
The notes for the show seem to have all eventualities covered:
"The late March '68 recordings are often listed as sbds, and the topic of aud vs. sbd remains uncertain for these shows, though they sound as if they were recorded with microphones on stage. The material for disc 2 is likely from a different show, though it circulates with the rest of what is dated as 3-30-68. It is possible that two Lovelights could be played in a single show, and it is conceivable that these songs may have preceded those on disc 1."
|
Poster:
|
skuzzlebutt |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:58am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
"...though they sound as if they were recorded with microphones on stage."
This has kind of been my thinking. There is little to no chatter in the immediate vicinty of the mikes, so it's not like it's just some guy holding a mike up in the crowd, but there also seems to be a little too much distance to the recording for it to be a board (IMO). I think this is "aud" in the sense that it is sourced from outside the Dead's sound system, but whoever made it definately seems to have carefully considered microphone placement. I would refer to 5/3/69 for an example of just how strong a tape this type of technique can produce.
|
Poster:
|
robthewordsmith |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:11am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Onstage mics can give marvellous results - you just have to check out some of Charlie Miller and Arielle Phares work with Steve Kimock for the proof of that. I think onstage recording gives much better sound than sbd or matrix recordings.
|
Poster:
|
light into ashes |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 11:20am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
I'm not sure about onstage mikes....I think these Carousel shows have too much room echo (and audible vocals) to be from onstage mikes.
One disastrous example of onstage miking is 5/8/70 - a classic combination of poor placement & poor equipment!
Anyway, I suspect all these shows/show fragments from March 26-31 '68 were recorded by one person at the Carousel; the dates we have on our tapes are approximate (a set might be from one day or another), but pretty close.
The Dead themselves set up "room mikes" to record for their Anthem shows, since they wanted to try to get some of that hall sound on the record rather than straight SBD. It's just possible these tapes come from that stash.
|
Poster:
|
skuzzlebutt |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 12:11pm |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
You could be right, of course- while the example of 5/3/69 I've given does show that this technique can work well when done properly (though I'm not suggesting 3/30/68 is anywhere near as sweet sounding), it does indeed have nearly inaudible vocals; something that is definately not a problem on 3/30 as you point out.
On the other hand, if this was in fact the band's doing, I would be interested to know how just how a reel of the room mikes only came to circulate independent of the sbd (i.e., wouldn't the sound they captured represent just a couple of tracks on a larger multitrack recording?).
|
Poster:
|
light into ashes |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:48pm |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
I don't think this is actually a band source - that was just a speculation to account for why, in a year with so few good AUDs, we have this whole run of good-sounding AUDs from March '68.
(A bigger question is, how many San Francisco bands period, were getting AUDs like this made in early '68? Could there have been some mystery Ken Lee-type taper at the Carousel?)
I'll have to look up how the Dead did the room-mikes, there might not be many details. When you say "a couple of tracks", remember that these Anthem shows were only taped in 2- or 4-track. At the time the Dead had no problem with mixing together separate tapes of the same performance, that would have been easy compared to mixing multiple performances into one tape! (one reason the Anthem mix took so long). Also, when they were recording for Live/Dead in early '69, Bear was making his own tapes on top of the multitrack album recordings (something that was also common in the Betty Jackson days), so it's not like one show = one tape.
And we know that the Dead's collection of reels from the Anthem-taped shows was a mess. Lots of bits made it into circulation; other shows completely disappeared & never made it into the Vault; a few stray pieces were found for that '68 Road Trips. It would be no surprise if more mystery '68 tapes surfaced.
|
Poster:
|
skuzzlebutt |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 7:15pm |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
You raise a great point that their likely would have only been one track available for the room; I hadn't really thought about what equipment they were using at this date (which is why you write essays about the stuff while I just read them :) ).
Still, I guess what I'm thinking when I said "a couple of tracks" still applies in that the "room track" would have presumably only existed alongside the rest of the performance to add ambiance, so it's weird to think of someone making a room-only tape from that. But you're right- with the Anthem-era tapes such a mess, anything is possible. I kind of like the theory that maybe there was indeed a mystery "house taper" operating on his own.
|
Poster:
|
light into ashes |
Date:
|
Mar 31, 2010 8:04am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read about the room mikes....
|
Poster:
|
elbow1126 |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:17am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
I read that, although I guess I didn't buy it. I don't recall hearing shows from this era that they played the same song twice. This is not to say that it couldn't have happened but it seems less likely than the alternative that they are from different shows, which is something that we do see in the early years all the time (mislabeled tapes or tapes that have parts of two or more shows). Now if it were an early and late show I would be more likely to believe it to be possible.
Greetings or should I say buenos dias since you have dubbed me the Spanish Archer. Any luck with the link?
|
Poster:
|
robthewordsmith |
Date:
|
Mar 30, 2010 6:31am |
|
Forum:
|
GratefulDead
|
Subject:
|
Re: TDIH...well, kinda sorta |
And greetings right back at you. Re the link - no not yet. Are you sure it's ok for me to do so without screwing anything up for you?
Live Music Archive
Librivox Free Audio
Metropolitan Museum
Cleveland Museum of Art
Internet Arcade
Console Living Room
Books to Borrow
Open Library
TV News
Understanding 9/11