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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 9:41am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
L&S: BTW, I tried the 78 show CLIFF mentions, thanks to elb, and it does indeed have outstanding sonic quality akin to what you speak of...gotta admit, it's my bias alone on not "going for it"...and on the mix biz, may be I just like the old mix with Jerry/Phil often dominating, though again, that's apples and oranges over how little noise/hiss/lack of separation are just NOT issues for these recordings you are highlighting...I do wish we had them for more early era ones!
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 8:24pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Cliff, I think the Dead absolutely RULE in the '70s. That's why I wish the tapes sounded better. Would you burn a spliff with me even if I think the Dead RULE in the '80s, too?
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Poster:
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whirlwind dreamer 65-95 |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 8:46pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
i would longstrange!! :) is 90's pushin it lol!!~ just a lil further than ya gone before!! the wheel is turning!!!
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Poster:
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Miss Divine |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 5:05am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Gonna check out that 78 show tonight....looks interesting.
Don't tell WT.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 8:03am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Hey sweetums*--don't tell anyone else either, but I just tried JS thanks to a great source of this 78 show from elb! Here's what I had to say to him about it, and I will admit, it's my bias, NOT the great sound that prevented me from going too far with it:
"I will grant that one is defn "crispy/clean"! Now, I realize my immediate disdain is ENTIRELY era pref related, and I am amazed that as objective as I think I should be I could not get past three things: Jerry's voice (gosh it already sounds sooo aged--it really bothers me since I have not listened to post 75 for yrs!), Donna (yikes--I know it should be okay here!), and Jerry's tone (the tone I heard all my touring yrs--his guitar playing style--not unlike how I think EClap changed to something I really don't care for).
But, putting those aside, which was shockingly tough to do, I grant that I think this sounds good, but I somehow can't say great because I realize I am biased...it IS possibly partly the mix...the kybds and drums are mixed so clearly, and Jerry's new tone so diff, but not in your face, that I realize what I take for "loss of dynamic quality" ISN'T about the sound quality, but HOW they're playing, and how they've changed, and the mix??? Does that make sense? When I hear Jerry with an up front, screaming lead, dominating the mix, and Bob audible when necess, and the drums and kybds lower in the mix, I actually am okay with it (but shouldn't be, right?) because it fits how I think it should sound...In this high quality 78, Jerry, the new "noodling, short note, blues/jazz Jerry" (don't know how to describe how he morphed from 72 onward...?) he is just another one of the players...
So, I will agree, it would be so cool to hear a 70 show in that kind of crisp, low noise level fashion!
And, I think I just conceded it is my bias that prevents me from enjoying this sound, as in a way, it captures how they've changed so well...."
*had avoided using this lately, but dropped it in to rile the misfits like Dan Healy...hope you don't mind. Bill will be along shortly to remind us you were the first LMA sweetums.
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Poster:
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Miss Divine |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 11:05am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
I like sweetums, it's cute.
And I'm stretching out a bit more these days. I finally have all the Dick's Picks CDs now (thanks to eBay) and Vol 5 (1979!!!) is pretty cool.
xx
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Poster:
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SkyDawg |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 3:06am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Here is another one from the same tour Cliff. Years after this master recording was made at Duke University and the campus had no further use for it, they sent the tapes back to The Grateful Dead. Phil Lesh was moved enough by this gesture on their part that Phil Lesh tasked the band's sound crew with cleaning it up and sending a "safety" reel to reel copy back to Duke University as a gift for their honesty in not selling it, or junking it. This is another great recording:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-04-12.sbd.serafin.18805.sbeok.shnf
BTW, on a personal note, I saw the band twice on this leg of the tour, in Lexington and Nashville. These were the last two Grateful Dead shows I ever saw before moving away from the mainland. I would have seen three, but they cancelled the Knoxville show and played in Normal IL. on that date instead. Every time I listen to the Normal show, (an epic show on 4/24/78) I cringe, because I was supposed to go to the show in Knoxville that night, but they cancelled.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-04-21.sbd.miller.97501.sbeok.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-04-22.sonyECM250.walker-scotton.miller.92808.flac16
This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2010-04-07 10:06:31
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Poster:
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mdewdcreek |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 8:01am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
77" has a slew of great sounding recordings IMHO....
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 10:31pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Sheeeee it! I wish I could pass that spliff right now. 4/16/78 is my new favorite thing in the world. Thanks, and sorry I had so much free time tonight.
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Poster:
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whirlwind dreamer 65-95 |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 8:04pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
going with that 78 show right now !!~ very sweet w/va.
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 7:53pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
thx big daddy, You know what I'm talkin' about. Mas, mas.
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Poster:
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mdewdcreek |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 7:51am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Hey Cliff great call on the 73" Tampa show, one of my absolute favorites!
Haven't listened to that Huntington show in a long while, a gem for certain.
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 10:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Huntington show is indeed there. All others are too hissy(signal to noise ratio) for me to consider HIFI recordings. Sad, because I agree those are GREAT shows. I was only asking about FIDELITY. I know there are a ton of great shows from the '70s. Please let me know of any that sound as good as Huntington, if they exist. I like this one
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-05-25.sbd.miller.87591.sbeok.flac16
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Poster:
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Cliff Hucker |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 1:23pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
The difference between the two is negligable. Just my opinion Larry but I think the low range of the miller.82273.sbeok.flac16 might be just a touch cleaner than the MOTB effort...
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Poster:
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snori |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 7:50am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Agreed, Elbow. And isn't that Peggy-o something kinda wonderful ?
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Poster:
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elbow1126 |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 7:52am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
While i tend to favor the more sublime versions such as those from '74 and have a real soft spot for the 5-25-77 Peggy-O, this one is really unique. Much more powerful than any other I have heard. The whole first set is that way. I love it.
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 6:46pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Thanks, this saves me a lot of time. I love the 70's shows, but find a lot of the older recordings to sound... well... like older recordings. I love to hear old shows that sound good- Ivar 2/25/66 is one of the greatest joys in the world, for instance. All I'm about here (aside from loathing Dead coverbands), is looking for shows that sound good. That is why I waste my time with 70's thru late 80's Grateful Dead. This is where I find what pleases my ears, mind, heart, soul, etc. Everyone has their opinions, and they are only that...opinions. All valid, and none the truth. I'm interested in your opinions of signal to noise ratio, low frequency presence, high end clarity, instrument separation, levels, and the like. I find some of the 80's Kaiser shows to be some of the best sounding music on here. There is (messurable, not just opinion) an increase in frequency range as time goes on for the Dead. Phil DID add two more strings. His lows DID get lower. This is all worth wasting time on, for me. I love listening to a show from the start of it all, then a show from the next year, then a show from the next year, then when I get to '95 I start over again from the beginning. You all should try it for a few cycles, it really shows how the Dead were the shit allways. I'm so sorry if some of you don't enjoy the Dead through the whole trip. There is a lot of great stuff from '65 - '95. Thanks for sharing the ones you think sound good.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 7:57pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Well, perhaps the quality has improved a great deal, but the tapes I had of 78-82 never had the punch of early recordings...they might have less noise (but not always) over some in the 60s/70s, but the mix always seemed subdued (whether DPs, SBD tapes we obtained, etc., etc.). They seemed to have been recorded "too low" if you follow me--lacked a dynamic quality...I've heard lots of folks offer explanations (we've esp covered the lack of dynamic quality of DPs from the 70s over the yrs here--again, overal sound quality, not the show per se), but just never heard them--shows of this time period--defended as some of the best sounding...
Now, in this, I am not arguing the songs, or my early era pref's, just the overall "sound" as I think you are...
Have they been reworked of late to improve them? I cannot vouch for what those done by Miller et al. which might have improved them in some fashion, as I don't have any shows of that time period...
Perhaps I am mixing apples (the mix per se) with oranges (noise level, hiss, hum, etc.) as I always think of putting the two together to come to a conclusion of overall sonic quality. Related to the second issue is this poorly defined notion of "dynamic quality", which I would describe as the "punch" for each instrument--the degree to which it comes thru loud and clear.
Not sure if I am making sense, but to conclude, I often find very high quality recordings from the early era on all three of these "levels" described above (of course, I am a SBD snob, and often listen more to commercial productions over other sources).
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Poster:
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Longnstrange |
Date:
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Apr 6, 2010 8:10pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Yea, I think what I'm liking about the later stuff has everything to do with people like Charlie and Hunter. And again, yes I'm only talking about the recording quality here. Some of these matrix jobs are fantastic. I WISH some of these 70's shows sounded like the 80's shows as far as recording quality. Can you imagine hearing some of those Dark Stars of old come through with the fidelity of an '88 Miller transfer? THAT would be nice, eh?
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Poster:
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jglynn1.2 |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 8:40am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Mr. Will Tell has no idea what an '88 Miller transfer sounds like!
;~)
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 1:36pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Thankfully...sorry, but I was a good sport and listened to JS from the Apr show (elb's choice), above, and had to (and did! did you see?) admit, it SOUNDS great...but those qualifiers instantly made me realize: "hmmm, I cannot put this on the stereo and play it loud to really get the effect...the wife and kids would laugh out loud" (are they well trained or what?)...Jerry's voice, and Donna singing on JS would just about kill them...
I know that sounds really harsh...but this high quality show makes me realize how MUCH they had changed in ten short yrs! And, trust, I saw lots of these kinds of shows in 77 & 78...liked them then, but only just.
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Poster:
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skuzzlebutt |
Date:
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Apr 19, 2010 5:56am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
"hmmm, I cannot put this on the stereo and play it loud to really get the effect...the wife and kids would laugh out loud"
Will, I've had this experience at home more times than you can count, and I know we've touched on the decline of the vocals in post '71 Dead plenty of times. Sometimes I think us Heads are so conditioned to the band's erratic singing
that we tend to hear "through" it (for lack of a better term) when it's really bad. But the family has called me on it more than once. Most recently, I was working in the yard and was listening to some show from around '73-'74. My youngest son comes out to see what I'm up to, and right about that time Phil comes warbling in on "I Know You Rider", and my boy just gets this priceless "WTF?" look on his face...
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 19, 2010 7:45am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Oh yeah--defn know the feeling! And, just so everyone realizes, YES!, it happens with my early era shows too (think Phil on an Eleven, when due to the mix or whatever, he is the ONLY one heard, and happens to be a bit off...yikes).
And, even when I know it's a song that I really LIKE the vocals, I realize that sometimes I must have "filters" (just as you describe) cause someone else hears it and cringes...
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 1:45pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
your wife and kids laughing out loud at Donna's "singing??" They would be better off diving beneath the couch, clasping their hands to their ears, and chanting "this isn't happening!"
(though I must admit that I happen to love '78 in general)
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 1:53pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
Yeah, I think my wife did too THEN...at least she went...she never liked Donna though. And you know, at a show, I never recall thinking "aiieeee!" during PITB (during "donna moments"). It was only later during the tape playback that it hit me. But, she noted it right off--she always mentioned it during the show, and I would say "don't worry...the walls aren't really melting...it'll be okay...just hold my hand...that's it...keep nodding...better now?". Picky, picky...
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Poster:
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mdewdcreek |
Date:
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Apr 7, 2010 8:02am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Sonic Perfection? |
I'd even burn one with a 90's fan, just don't play any while we're smokin'...
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