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V'W*^-
COMPLETE COLLECTION
OF
State Trials
AND
PROCEEDINGS FOR HIGH TREASON AND OTHER
CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS
FROM THE
EARLIEST PERIOD TO THE YEAR 1783,
WITH NOTES AND OTHER ILLUSTRATIONS:
COMPILID BY
T. B. HOWELL, Esq. F.R.S. F.S.A
-— • INCLUDING,
IN ADDITION TO TflE WHOLE OF THE MATTER CONTAINED IN THE
FOLIO EDITION OF HARGRAVE,
UPWARDS OP TWO HUNDRED CASES NEVER BEFORE COLLECTED;
TO WHICH IS SUBJOINED
A Table of Parallel Reference,
RENDERING THIS EDITION APPLICABLE TO THOSE BOOKS OF AUTHORITY IN
WHICH REFERENCES ARE MADE TO THE FOLIO EDITION.
IN TWENTY-ONE VOLUMES.
VOL. VII.
30—32 CHARLES II 1678—1680.
LONDON:
Printed by T. C. Hansard, Peterborough-Court, Fleet-Street ;
FOR LONGMAN, HURST, REES, ORME, and BROWN ,• J. M. RICHARDSON ;
BLACK, PARBURY, and ALLEN; BALDWIN, CRADOCK, and JOY;
E. JEFFERY; J. HATCHARD; R. H. EVANS; J. BOOKER ) E. LLOYD;
J. BOOTH; BUDD a*d CALKIN; AND T. C. HANSARD.
1816.
.
UBMRYOFTHE
LELMO ftTAiVFOfiO ;:'.i\!\<ER8ITY.
0..M-3ISJ"
Ms 27 WOO
-
TABLE OF CONTENTS.
TO
VOLUME VII.
■ IMIM ^umiii Ml-**
STATE TRIALS IN THE REIGN OF
KING CHARLES THE SECOND.
\* Vk* new Matter * mqriked JN.]
■**• THE Trial of Bbwam> Colmah, at the KrogVBench, for High Treason,
A* &• 1678 (MIMHINMIIHItlM^IIMHMIUMHHMUMMIHMtflMlflltlMMI,!!! |
945. The TVial of William Irrlan©, Thomas Pickering, and John Grove, at
the Old Barley, for High Treason, a. d. 1678 , 79
34G. The Trial of the Lord Cornwall™, before the Lords at Westminster, for
the Murder of Robert Clerk, a. d. 1678 lit
947. The Trial of Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Lawrence Hill, at the
KingVBench, for the Murder of Srr Edmundbury Godfrey, a. d. 1 679 1 59
348. The Trial of Mr. Samuel Atkins, at the Ktng's-Bench, for being acces-
sary to the Murder of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey, a. d. 1679 ... 231
949. The Trial of David Lewis, a Jesuit (pretended Bishop of LlandafF), at
Monmouth Assizes, for High Treason, a. d. 1<?79 ,. 250
* « »
250. The Trial of Nathan ael Reading, esq. for a Trespass and Misdemeanor,
a. d. 1679 *....♦. .;.- 259
251. The Trial of Thomas White, alias Whitebread, Provincial of the Jesuits
m England, William Harcourt, pretended Rector of London, John
Fbnwick, Procurator foe the Jesuits in England, Joan Gavan, alias
Gawbn, and Anthony Turner, all Jesuits and Priests, at the Old
Bailey, for High Treason, a. d. 1679 ; « 311
TABLE OF CONTENTS.
Page
$53, The Trial of Ricbabb Laxghobn, esq. at the Old Bailey, for High Trem-
son, a. d. 1679 ••••• • • h„,m. 41S
An Answer to the Rejections on the Five Jesuits Speeches; or,
General Bales of Christian Charity. Together with the Speech
of Henry IV. King of France in behalf of the Jesuits [N.] 564
Animadversions on the last Speeches of the five Jesuits, Tin. Thomas
Whitb alias Whitbbbbad, Provincial of the Jesuits in England;
WIluam Habgoubt, pretended Rector of London; John Fbn-
wick, Procurator for the Jesuits in England ; John Gay an alias
Gawbn, and Anthony Tubnbb ; who were all executed at Ty-
burn for High Treason in conspiring the Death of the King, &c
June 20, 1679 [N.] 543
An Account of the Behaviour of the Fourteen late Popish Malefec-
tors whilst in Newgate. And their Discourses with the Ordinary,
viz. Messrs. Stalby, Colbman, Gboyb, Ibbland, Pickbbimg,
Gbbbn,Hibb, Bbbby, Whitbbbbad, Habcoubt, Fbnwick, Gawbn,
Tubnbb, and Lbhohobn. Also a Confutation of their Appeals,
Courage, and Cheerfulness, at Execution. By Samuel Smith,
Ordinary of Newgate, and Minister of the Gospel [N.] 570
tiS. The Trial of Sir Gbobob Waxbman, hart William Mabsmal, William
Rumlby, and Jambs Cobjlbb, Benedictine Monks, at the Old Bailey,
for High Treason, a. n. 1679 ,.... 591
Some Observations upon the late Trials of Sir Gbobob Wakbmav,
Cobkbb, and Marshal, &c By Tom Ticklefbot, the Tahourer,
late Clerk to Justice Clodpate 687
The Ticbxbb Ticklbd ; or, the Ohservator upon the late Trials of
Sir Gbobob Waxbman, Jtc. observed. By Mabobby Mason,
Spinster . . 695
The Lord Chief Justice Scaoocs's Speech in the King VBencb, the
first Day of this present Mithaelmas-Term, 1679, occasioned by
many libellous Pamphlets which are published against Law, to
the Scandal of the Government, and Public Justice. Together
with what was declared at the same time on the same Occasion, in
open Court, by Mr. Justice Jombs, and Mr. Justice Dolbbn 70S
954. The Trial of Chablbs Kbbmb, at Hereford Assises, for High- Treason,
being a Bomish Priest, a. p. 1679 •-•• 707
25*. The Trial of Anbbbw Bbommich, at Stafford Assises, for High Treason,
being a Komish Priest, a. t>. 1679 ««..* 715
TABLE OF CONTENTS.
P*ge
936. The Trial of William Atkins, at Stafford Am^ for High Treason;
being a Romish Priest, a* d. 1670....... , ..* 726
257. The Trial of Francis Johnson, a Franciscan, at Worcester, for High
i,.a,d~ 1639 [N.}..~. .. 4.*.....,. 750
• * « .
358. The Trial of Thomas box and John Lane, at the KingVBench, for a
- Misdemeanor, a. d. 1679* .» . • * ~ 769
99. Th^ TrftUi 6f LioNiL Anderson alias Munson, William Bussel alias
Napfer, Charles P arris alias Paebt, Henrt Staekbt, James Corker,
William Marshal, and Alexander Lumsden, with the Arraignment
of Dayid Joseph Kemish, at the Old Bailey, for High Treason, being
Uomish Priests, a.d. 1680 811
900. The Trial of John T? asborough and Anne Price, at the KingVBench,
for Subornation of Perjury, a. d. 1680 882
161. The Trial of Benjamin Haeris, Bookseller, at Guildhall, for causing to
be printed, and sold, a libel, entitled, " An Appeal from the Country
" to the City, for the Preservation of his Majesty's Person, Liberty,
" Property, and the Protestant Religion/' a. d. 1680 996
999. The Trial of Francis Smith, Bookseller, at the Guildhall of Loudon, for
publishing a Libel, a. d. 1680 ♦ ......r. 051
968. The Trial of Jane Curtis, at Guildhall, for publishing the same Libel,
a. n. 1680 «. ~ . 959
964. The Trial of Sir Thomas Gascoignb, bart. at the KingVBench, for High
Treason, a. i>. 1680. 959
965. The Trial of Elizabeth Cellibe, at the King's-Bcnch, for High Treason,
A. D. 1680 1041
906. The Trial of Roger Palmrr, esq. Earl of Castlemaine, in the Kingdom of
Ireland, at the King's-Bcnch, for High Treason, a. d. 1680 1067
967. The Trial of Henrt Carr, or Care, at the Guildhall of London, for a
libel, a.d. 1680 ..' Ull
968. The Trial of John Giles, at the Old Bailey, for assaulting and attempt-
ing to murder John Arnold, esq. a.d. 1680 1130
969. The Trial of Thomas Thwinc and Mart Prbssicks, at York Assises, for
High Treason, a. d. 1680 .. 1169
97a The Trial of Elizabeth Ceixibr, at the Old Bailey, for writing and
publishing a libel, September 11th and 13th, a. d. 1680 1 183
TABLE OF COtfTfcNlS.
171. Proceedings against the Fire Popish Lords, vix. the Sari of Powis, Lord
- Viscount Staffobd, Lord Pbtke, Lord Aruhdel of WaHOoub, and
Lord Bbllasvss, for High Treason : Together with the Trial of Lord
Viscount Stafford, a.d, 1678 — l6ft£.„„ «•••••«•»••••»••••••••• 121S
The Trial of William Viscount Staftoio, before the Lords At
Westminster, upon an Impeachment for High Treason, November
30, A.D. 1<380mMMMMM.MMMM.MMM ...#MM MM.Mt.MM. 1294
COBBETTS
i
k
COBBETT'S
COMPLETE COLLECTION
OF
State Trials.
.. i* .-i ...
3SS
3»=rS
r , ' _
844. The Trial* of Edward Coleman,^ at the Kings-Bench, for
High Treason ; 30 Charles I J. a. d. 1678.
ON Wednesday the *Trh of November, 1078,
Mr. Coleman, having been arraigned the Sa-
turday before for High-Treason, was brought
to the KiDg's^bencb par, to receive his trial,
and the Court proceeded thereupon, as fol-
lowed!:
CI. qfCr. Crier, make proclamation. .
Crier. O yes ! Our sovereign lord the king
does strictly charge and command all manner
of persons to keep silence upon pain of impri-
sonment. If any one can inform our sovereign
lord the king, the kin£s serjeant, or the king's
attorney-general, or this inquest now to be ta-
ken, of any treason, murder, felony, or any
other misdemeanour committed or done by the
H^i
• » From a pamphlet, entitled; « The Trial
of Edward Coleman, gent* for conspiring the
Death of the King, and the Subversion of the
Government of England, and the Protestant
Religion : who upon full evidence was found
Goilty of High Treason, and received Sentence
accordingly, on Thursday, November 38, 1678.
London, printed for Robert Pawlet at the
Bible in Chancery-lane near Fleetttreet, 1678.
* November 28, 1678. I do appoint Robert
* Pawlet to print: the Trial of Edward Cole-
* man : And that no other person presume to
' print the same. Wm. Scrogcs.' "
f See the Introduction to the Trials for
ito Popish Plot, vol. 6, p. 1401. Burnet's
Hist, of his Own Time, vol* 1, p. 393, thus
introduces Coleman t " The duchess of York
had one pot about her to* be her secretary,
Coleman ; who became so active in the affairs
of the party, and ended his life so unfortunate-
ly, that since I bad much conversation with
him, las circumstances may deserve that his
character should be given, though bis person
did not,- I was told, mt was a clergyman's son :
Bat be was early catebed by the Jesuits, and
He understood
YOU Til.
prisoner at. the bar, let them come forth, and
they shall be heard, for the prisoner stands at
the bar upon his deliverance.
CI, cfCr. Crier, make an O yes.
Crier. O yes ! You good. men that are im-
GoelJed to enquire between our sovereign
the king, and Edward Coleman prisoner
at the bar, answer to your names.
CI. cf Cr. Edward Coleman, hold up thy
hand. These good men that are now called,
and here appear, are those which are to pass
between you and our sovereign lord the king,
upon your life or death ; if you challenge any
of them, you must speak as they come to the
book to' be sworn, and before they are sworn.
the art of managing controversies, chiefly that
great one of the authority of the church, better
than any of their priests. He was a bold man,
resolved to raise himself, which he did by de-
dicating himself wholly to the Jesuits : And so"
be was raised by them. He had a great east*
nets in writing in several languages ; and writ
many long letters, and was the chief corres-
pondent the party bad in England. He lived
at a vast ex pence. And talked in so positive
a manner, that it looked like one who knew he
was well supported. I soon saw into his tem-
1>er ; and I warned the duke of it t For I
ooked on him as a man much liker co spoil
business, than to carry it on dexterously. He
got into tbe confidence of P. Ferrier the king
of France's confessor ; and tried to get into
tlje same pitch of confidence with P. de la
Chaise, who succeeded him in that post. He
went about every where, even to the jails
among the criminals,' to make proselytes. He
dealt much both in the giving and taking of
bribes." See more of him, p. 892, et seq. of
the same volume. His name occurs in the
Pieces Historiques, annexed to the (Euvres de
Louts xiv.
B
«]
STATE TRIALS, SO CiutLE* II. mt<—Tritl tf Edward Cokman,
t*
lilt prisoner challenging none, the Court
proceeded, and the Jury were sworn, vis. sir
Reginald Forster,.bart. ; sir Charles Lee; Ed-
ward Wilford, esq.; Jobn: Bathurst, esn.;
Joshua Galliard, esq. ; John Bif§eld, esq. ; Si-
mon Middleeon, esq. ; Henry Johnson, esq. ;
Charles Umfrevile, esq.; Thomas Johnson,
esq. ; Thomas Eagtesfield, esq. ; Win. Bohee,
esq*
CI. qfCr. Crier, make an O yes.
Crier. O yes ! Our sovereign lord the king
dues strictly charge and command all manner
of persons to keep silence upon pain of impri-
sonment.
CI. cf Cr. Edward Coleman, hold np thy
hand. You Gentlemen of the, Jury that are
now sworn, look upon the prisoner, and hearken
to his charge. You shall understand, that the
prisoner stands indicted by the name of Ed-
WnrdColeuTan, late of the" parish of St .^Marga-
ret's Westminster in the county of Middlesex,
gent, for that be as a false traitor against our
most illustrious, serene, and most excellent
£rince Charles, by the grace of God of Eng-
ind, Scotland, France, and Ireland king, de-
fender of the faith, 6(c. and his natural lord ;
having not the fear of God in bis heart, nor,
duly weighing bis allegiance, but being moved
and seduced ny the instigation of the devil, his
cordial love and true duty, and natural obedi-
ence, (which true and lawful subjects of our
said lord the king ought to bear towards him,
and by law ought to have) altogether withdraw-
ing, and with all his strength intending, the
peace aud common tranquillity of this kingdom
of England to disturb, and the true worship of
God within the kingdom of England practised,
and by law established, to overthrow, and se-
dition and rebellion within this realm of Eng-
land to move, stir up and procure ; and the
cordial love and true duty and allegiance,
which true and lawful subjects of our sovereign
lord the king towards their sovereign bear, and
by law ought to have, altogether to withdraw,
forsake, and extinguish ; aodour said sovereign,
lord the king to death and final destruction to
bring and pat, the 99th day of September, in
the, 37th year of the reign of our said sovereign
lord Charles the Sod, of England, Scotland,
Franca and Ireland king, defender of the faith,
&c. at the pariah of St. Margaret's Westminster
aforesaid, in the count? aforesaid, falsely, ma*
lktou Jy and traitorously proposed, compassed,
imagined and intended, to stir up, and raise se-
dition and rebellion within the kingdom of
England, and to procure and cause a miserable
destruction among the subjects of our said lord
the king, and wholly to deprive, depose, dejject
and disinherit our said sovereign lord the suae;,
of his royal state, title, power, and rule of his
kingdom of England, and u> bring and put our
said sovereign lord the king to final death and
destruction, and to overthrow and change the
government of the kingdom of England, and to
alter the sincere and true religion, of God, in
Miis kingdom by law established ; and wholly
to subvert and destroy the state of tbf whole
kingdom, being in the universal parts thereof,
well established and ordained, and to levy war
against our said sovereign lord the king, witbin
hits realm of England t And to accomplish and
fulfil these his most wicked treasons, and trai-
torous designs and imaginations aforesaid, the
said Edward Coleman afterwards, that is to
say, the t9th day of September, in tip 27th
year of the reign 6f our said lord the king, at
the parish of St. Margaret's Westminster afore-
said, in the county of Middlesex aforesaid,
falsely, deceitfully and traitorously composed,
contrived, and writ two letters, to be sent to
one M. La Chaise, then servant and eonfessor
of Lewis the French king, to desire, procure,
and obtain, for the said Edward Coleman, and
other raise traitors agaitist our said sovereign
lord the king, the aid, assistance, and adherence
of the said French king, to alter the true reli-
■" gion in this kingdom established, to the soper^
stitton of the Church of Rome, and to subvert
the government of this kingdom of England c
And afterwards, that is to say, the said 89th
dsw of September in the year aforesaid, at the
parish of St. Margaret's Westminster, in the
county of Middlesex aforesaid, the snid Edward
Coleman falsely, traitorously and maliciously,
composed and writ two other letters, to be
sent to the said M. La Chaise, then servant and
confessor to the said French king, to the in*
tent that he the said M. La Chaise should in-
treat, procure, and obtain for the said Edward
Coleman and other false traitors against our
sovereign lord the king, aid, assistance, and
adherence of the said French king, to alter the
true religion in this kingdom of Eogland estah*
lished, to the superstition of the Church of
Rome, and to subvert the government of this
kingdom of England : And that the said Ed*
ward Coleman, in further prosecution of his
treason and traitorous imaginations and inten*
tions, as aforesaid, afterwards, vis. the 89tb
day of September, in the 87th year of the reign*
of our said sovereign lord king Charles, of Ent>
land, Ate. the said several letjers, from the said
parish of St. Margaret's Westminster, in the
county of Middlesex aforesaid, falsely, malici-
ously and traitorously, did send to the said M.
La Chaise, into parts beyond the seas, there te
be delivered so turn : And that the said Ed-
ward Coleman, afterwards, vis. the 1st day of
December, in the 87 th year of our said sovsv*
reign lord the king, at the said perish:of fitv -
Margaret's Westminster, in thfcotmty of Mid*
dlesex aforesaid, did receive from the said M.
La Chaise one letter, in answer to one of die
said letters first mentioned, and written by him
the said Edward Coleman to the said M. La
Chaise ; which said tatter ia answer as afore*
said, falsely, isudscwavJy, and traitorously re-
oeived, the day and year aforesaid, at the
parish of Se. Margaret's Westm taster, atmeseift,
the said Edward Coleman did falsely, traitor*
oosly, and maliciously read over and pesoses
And that the said Edward Cofeman,tbe letfce*
so as. aforesaid, by him m answer so the said
letter received into his custody and possession,
ii *
8TATfcTftlAUS, 30 Ciuauu II. \Q1t<-Jar jg%* IWe**.
tk> 4^ sad j«* lam m€DtV>tMd| »C tb« pwriab
of St, Msesjuvt's Westnunsier aforesaid, «
throoenty *f Middlesex aforesaid, did falsely,
imfii ssuuiy> and traitorously detain, conceal
•ad keep. By which letter the and M. La
Canoe, the day and year last Motioned, at the
parish of St. Margaret's Westminster, in the
earner of Middlesex aforesaid, did signify and
swoonae* to the said Edward Coleman, to ob-
tain lor the said Edward Coleman, and other
false traitors against oar sovereign lord the
king, aid, assistance and adherence from ihe
said French king: And that the said Edward
Coleman afterwards, vis. the 10th day of De-
iber, in the 37th year of the reign of our
1 sovereign lord the king, at the parish of St.
gam's Westminster, in the county of Mid-
dlesex aibreemid, bis wicked treasons and trai-
torous designs and proposals as aforesaid did
tail and declare to one M. Ravigni, envoy-ex-
traordioary from the French king to oar "most
serene and sovereigQ lord king Charles, &c. in
the county aforesaid residing, and did falsely,
snaociously/, and traitorously move and excite
the said envoy-extraordinary to partake in his
treason ; and the sooner to fulfil and complete
Ins traitorous designs, and wicked knagioations
and intentions, the said Edward Coleman af-
terwards, to. the 10th day of December in the
2?tb year of ihe reign of oar sovereign lord
king Chudes the second of England, fee* afore-
said, at the parish of St. Margaret's Westmin-
ster, in the couaty of Middlesex aforesaid, did
advisedly, maliciously, deceitfully, and traitor-
ously compose and write three other letters to
he sent to one sir William Throckmorton, kt.
then a subject of our said sovereign lord the
king of this kingdom of England, and residing
in France, in. parts beyond the seas, viz. at the
parish of St. Margaret's Westminster, in the
coeoty of Middlesex aforesaid, to solicit the
said M. La Chaise to procure and obtain of the
said French king, aid,- assistance and adherence
as afureaaid, and the said letters last mention-
ed, afterwards, via. the day and year last
as aforesaid, from' the said parish of St.
V Westminster, in the county of Mid-
foresaid, did falsely and traitorously
send, and cause to be delivered to the said sir
William Throckmorton in France aforesaid,
his true allegiance, and against the
o£ our sovereign lord the king that
j ht» crown and dignity, and against the
form of 'the statute in that case made and pro-
CL of Cr. Upon this Indictment he hath
-Jan arraigned, and hath pleaded thereunto
Not Guilty ; and for his trial he puts himself
anon God and his country : which country you
Your charge is to enquire, whether lie be
of the high-treason whereof be stands
ad, or net feisty. If you find him guil-
ts', you are to inquire what good* and chattels,
lands and tenements he had at the time when
the high-treason was committed, or at any
, *,See East's Pleas of .the Crown, x. 2, s. 68.
time since : If you 6od him not jpvty, you are
to say so, and no more, and near your evi-
dence. .
Crier. If any one will give evidence on the
behalf of our sovereign lord the king, against
Edward Coleman the prisoner at the bar, lee
him come forth, and he shall be beard ; for the
prisoner now stands at the bar upon hit deli-
verance.
Mr. Recorder, (Sir Georre Jefferies.) May
it please you, my Lord, and you gentlemen of
the jury; Mr. Edward Coleman, now the pri-
soner at the bar, stands iodicted for high trea-
son, and the indictment sets forth that the said
Edward Coleman, endeavouring to subvert the
protestant religion, and to change and alter
the same y and likewise to stir up rebellion and
sedition amongst the king's liege people, and
also to kill the king; did on the 29th of Sep*
tember in the 27th year of the reign of our so-
vereign lord the king, at the parish of St.
Margaret's, Westmioster, in this county, com-
pose and write two several letters to one M.La
Chaise, that was then servant and oontesso*
to the French king, and this was to procure
the French king's aid and assistance to htm
and other traitors, to alter the religion practis-
ed, and by law established here hi England,
to the Romish superstition. The Indictment
sets forth likewise, That on the same day he
did write and compose two other letters to the
same gentleman, that was servant and con-
fessor to the said king, to prevail with him to
procure the French sint/s assistance to alter
the religion in this kingdom established to the
Romish religion. The indictment sets farther
forth, that he caused these twe letters to be
sent beyond seas. And it also sets forth, that
on the 10th of December, the tame month, he
did receive a letter from the gentleman that
was the confessor, in answer to one of the
former letters, and iu that letter aid and assist*
ance from the French king was promised ; and
that he did traitorously conceal that letter.
My Lord, the Indictment sets out further, that
on the 10th day of the same month, he did re*
veal his treasons and traitorous conspiracies to
one Monsieur Ravigni, who was envoy from
the French king to his majesty of Great-Bri-
tain. And his Indictment declares, he after*
wards did write three letters more to sir William
Throckmorton, then residing in France, to
procure the French king's assistance to the al-
teration of the religion practised here in Eng-
laud. Of these several offences he stands here
indicted.
To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty. If we
prove these, or eitner of them in the Indict-
ment, you oogbt to find him guilty.
Serj. Maytutrd. May it please .your lord-
ship, and yoo gentlemen of toeiury : This is n
case of great concernment. Gentlemen, the
prisoner at the bar stands indicted for no lest
than an intention and endeavour to murder
the king; Jbr an endeavour and attempt te
change the government ef the nation, so wall
settled and instituted, and to bring us nil to
VMM
71
STATE TWAIA so Cuiut U. ltfs~*ftM tf&mtri <Mma»,
[*
ruio and slaughter of one -another ; and lac m
endeavour to alter the Protectant religion, and
to introduce instead of it the Romish supersti-
tion, and Popery.
This is the charge in general, of the Indict-
ment. We will proceed anto particular*)
whereby it may appear, and whereupon be
endenvooreth to accomplish his ends. One or
two letters -written to M. La Chaise (he is a
foreigner, and we bate nothing to say to him,
being confessor to the French king) it was to
eicite and stir him up to procure aid and as-
sistance (and you know what aid and assistance
■leans) from a foreign prince, arms, and other
levies. We charge bin with it, that he did re-
ceive this letter, ay, and received an answer
with a promise, that he shoe Id have assistance.
He writ other letters to sir William Throck-
morton, who traitorously conspired with him,
*nd had intelligence from time to time from
him. .This is the charge in the Indictment 3
To which he bath pleaded, Not Guilty. We
will go. on in onr evidence : J shall, but mora
generally, open our method, that we intend to
take. For it may seem strange, and is not rea-
sonably to he imagined, that a private gentle-
man, as the prisoner at the bar is, should have
such vast and great designs as this, to alter,
religion, destroy the government, ay, and de-
stroy the subjects too in a great measure.
But it is not himself alone, but he employs
himself for foreign assistance, great eonJedera-
, cies and combinations with the subjects of that
king, many of whom he did pervert.
In the course of the Evidence I shall not
open the particulars : (Mr. Attorney, I think,
wall do thatjby and by) those that we have oc-
casion to sneak of, and shall in proof mention
CO you, will be these : La Chaise, the French
king's present confessor, we have mentioned :
before him there was one Father Ferryer, with
whom be held correspondence. That Ferryer
being removed by death, the prisoner had an
employment here amongst us, by which he
gave La Chaise instructions bow to proceed.
This gentleman is the peat contriver and
plotter* which gives him instructions how to
proceed. He doth give him an account by
way of narrative, how all tilings had stood
una* former treaties and negotiations, how bu-
sinesses were contrived, and how far they were
gone; this he diligently and accurately gives an
account of. This (my lord) doth discover and
delineate, what hath been done before until
1674. My lord, there was likewise sir Wm.
Throckmorton and some others, that are Eng*
lisbmen too, there are none of them but what
were first Protestants ; but when they once re-
nounced their religion, no wonder they should
renounce their nation* and their prince too.
He was gone beyond the seas, several letters
past between them, and all to promote, and en-
desien. 1
courage, end aocomphob this design. My lord,
there is likewise a consult of Jesuits used too,
where, in .express words, they designed to mur-
der the king* or cootrsred and advised upon it.
Mj L^&m+**fmln*hnm(l open
bug the beads of things) sent a» Windsor ts>
murder the king ; this gentleman Mocked end •
disbursed money about this basinets, and on*)
Asbby a Jesuit here bad instructions mam Mm *
to prosecute the design, and to treat with a •
physician to poison the king. This the pri-
soner approved of, and contributed to is*
There were communions, as I take it, delivered
from Ferryer, or by bis hand, that came from
foreign powers. Sir Henry Titchooume waa
another that received and delivered com*
missions. Pompone the French gentleman, he
maintains intelligence with him about this bin •
siness, die titular archbishop of Dublin.
There is Cardinal Norfolk, by him be had
accession to the Pope. There was likewise)
the Pope's Nuncio (I do not open the trene-
actions of these instructions); these parti*
cnlars will be made oat, not only by witness
vtva voce* and not single only, but by letters of
this Mr. Coleman's own writing. But I oner
that to the consideration of the jury.
Mr. Oates was the first man, that we hear
of, that discovered this treason; he was the,
single man that discovered so many active
agents in so great a treason as this was, and it
needed to be well seconded ; but he being
found to be but single, the boldness and eos>
rage of. these complotters in it grew great
thereupon. We know what followed; the
damnable murder of that gentleman, in exe-
cution of his office, so hellishly contrived, and
the endeavours that were used to hide it, every-
body knows : how many stories were told to
bide that abominable murder, how many lias
there were about it, but it could not be sup*
pressed. The nation is awakened out of sleepy
and it concerns us now to look about us. But
all this while Mr. Coleman thought himself
safe, walked in the fields, goes shroud, jea-
loesv increasing, and he himself stilt secure.
The letters that are produced go but to some
part of the year 1675 : from 1675 unto 167S
all lies in the dark, we have no certain proof of
it; but we apprehend he had intelligence until
1678 ; that there were the same persons cos*
tinuing here, and bis company increasing here:
but this I speak but as probable, (hot very e»
ceeding probable) that there was other pasv
tares of intelligence between this person nod
other confederates.
It seems, my ford, that this Coleman waa
aware that he was concerned : but God blinded
and intonated him, and took away his reason.
It is no question bat he carried away some of
those papers ; those that were left behind, and
are produced, he fosgot and neglected; and
by that (my lord) those which are produced,
are evidence against him at this time. Surety
he thought we were in such a condition, that
had eyes and could not see, and ears that cosed
not hear, and understandings without undsr-
standing : for he was bold, and walked abroad,
and that until this prosecution was made upon
him, he endeavoured so murder the king,
change the government, make an alteration of
rehjpooi imfdmtrHCtion of Protestants, as Y*fH
STATB TOALS, *» Charuu II. IrJTeWbr jU%n Trt**m.
i will be
they wet* **■
t them in the
wilK doubt
Jones.) Muy it
as tks
paean ey
jenes by the date, tbnt
date's uame. And by
feet he m a greet traitor.
itl0m.Oes. (8tr
phase roar lovuahip, and you gentlemen of the
jury, the king's serjcamt bathopened the ge-
neral parte of enr evidence ; and we have
renee to fceesea task our evidence will be eery
S,aud will take ep much of yoor time;
lationio 1 shall spend no mere time in
oaeaing of it than it just necessary; And
isdeau, my lord, Mr. Coleman himself bath
jawed me orach of the labour, which otherwise
I atoeieiMT* bestowed; for he hath left such
elegant end copious narratives of the whole
etuge under his own hand, that the reeding
ef them will be better then any new one 1 con
(10
but, my lord, some short account I shall
fite joe, such as may shew you the course of
ear £ridence, nod will make our evidence,
ante it coaeee to be given, to be more inteW
%hie.
My lord, It wiil appear, that there hath been
far awny years last past a more than ordinary
eVuga and industry to brio*, in the Popish, and
emurpate the Protestant reKpon. I doubt not
bet uns design, in some measure, hath been
eontirtieg ever suce the* reformation, t<y the
Jcjssts, or some of their emissaries, but hath
•ten received interruption ; so that they have
proceeded sometimes more coldly, sometimes
nwre hotly : and I do think, at no time since
lbs n&nnetion, that ever this design was car-
ried en with greater industry, nor with fairer
bopsa of success, then for these last years.
sty lord. You will hear from oor witnesses,
that the eist onset, which was to be made
aeon as, was by whole troops of Jesuits and
priests, who were sent hither from the semina-
ries abroad, where they had been trained up in
all the sanctity nnd skill that was fit to work
anon the people.
Ifylevd, yon will hear how active they have
been, and what msmoations they used for the
perverting of particular persons. After some
lane spent in such attempts, they quickly grew
weary of that course ; though they got some
Proselytes, they were but few. Some bodies,
in whom there was a predisposition of humours,
ware isdectjpd, but their numbers were not
great. They at last resolve to take a more
espeditieun way ; for in troth, my lord, they
ceuM not far prevail by the former. And I
" ' with all »ny heart, that the bodies of Pro-
tuny be 'as much out of danger of the
. of their hands, as their understandings
wiH be of the force of their arguments, But,
are lord, arisen this way wonM not take, they
began eisen to consider they must throw It aU
at ewbe. No doubt but they would have been
glad, thnt the people of England had had but
one neck ; but they knew the people of England
baa) hot owe head, and therefore they were rev
sq^w) sterile at that.
My lord, yen will find, that there
moos of the principal Jesuits, of the meet able
head-pieces, who were to meet m April or May
last, to consult of very great things, of a molt
diabolical nature, no less than how to take
away the life of the king oar sovereign.
My lord, you will find (as is usually practised
hi such horrid conspiracies, to make aM secure,
that there was an oath of secrecy taken, and
that upon the Sacrament. You will find agree*
menu made, that this most wicked and hor-
rible design should be attempted. You wtt
find two villains were found among them, who
undertook to do this execrable work; and yon
will hear of the rewards they were to have:
money in case they did succeed, and masses
good store in case they perished; so that their
bodies were provided lor in case they survived,
and their souls if they died. My lord, What
was the reason they did not effect their design,
hot either that these villains wanted oppor-
tunity, or their hearts failed them when thev
came to put in execution this wicked design ?
Or, perhaps (which is most probable) it was
the Providence of God, which over-ruled them,
that this bloody design did not take its effect.
But these gentlemen were not content with
one essay, they quickly thought of another ;
and there ware four Irish-men prepared (men
of very mean fort ones, and desperate condV
tions), and they were to make the attempt no
longer since, than when the king was last at
Windsor.
My lord, I perceive by the Proofs, that these
last assassinates went down thither ; but it
came to pass (for some of the reasons afore*
said) that that attempt failed likewise.
My lord, These gentlemen, those wise
heads, who had met here in consultation, did
then, and long before, consider with themselves,
that so mat a cause as this was not to be put
upon the hazard of some few hands ; tney
therefore proposed forces, aids, and assistances,
both at home and abroad, to second this
wicked design, if it had succeeded as to the
person of the king ; and if that failed, then by
their foreign and domestic aids and assistances,
to begin and accomplish the whole work of
subverting our government and religion. And
here we must needs confess, as to the former
part of tbw Plot, which we have mentioned, I
mean the attempt upon the king's person, Mr.
Coleman was not the contriver, nor to he the
executioner; hut yet your lordship knows, m
all treasons there is no accessary, hot ever}
man is a princtpnl. And thus much we have)
against him, even as to this part of the deuign,
which will involve him in the whole eoih of it,
that Mr. Coleman consented to it, though his
band were not to do it Mr. Coleman encou-
raged a mrssenger to carry money down as a
reward of these murderers, that were at Wind-
sot; of this we have ntoof amrinst him, which
is sufficient. My lorn, Mr. Coleman, as a man
of greater abilities, is icscrved for gseater em*
ployments, and such wherein, I confess, sil his
wese httleeaough* There ware oego-
U] STATE TRIALS, *0 Charu* U W$^~ Trial qf&kWrd CoU*an, [\p
tiations lo be made with men abroad, money
|» be procured, partly at borne from friend*
here, and partly abroad from those that wished
them well : and ia all these negotiations Mr.
Coleman bad a mighty hand; and yon will
perceire by and by what a great progress he
made in them. This conspiracy went so far,
as you will bear it proved, that there were ge-
neral officers named and appointed, that should
command their new Catholic army, and many
were engaged, if not listed. Thee e were not
Only in England, but in Ireland likewise,
where arms and all other necessaries were pro-
vided, and whither great sums of money were
retained to serve upon occasion. But one
.thing there is, my lord, that comes nearest Mr.
Coleman : as there were military officers
named, so likewise the great civil places and
offices of the kingdom were to be disposed of;
I will not name to whom at this time, more
than what is pertinent to the present business.
This gentleman, such were his great abilities,
'the trust and reliance that his party had upon
him, that no less an office would serve his turn
than that of principal secretary of state ; and he
had a commission, that came to him from the
superiors of the Jesuits, to enable him to exe-
cute that great office. My lord, it seems
strange, that so great an office should be con-
ferred by no greater a man than, the superior
Of the Jesuit*. But if the pope can depose
kings, and dispose of kiugdoros, no wonder if
the superior of the Jesuits can by a power de-
legated from him make secretaries. It is not
certain what the date of this commission was,
nor the very time when be received it : but I
believe he was so earnest and forward in this
Plot, that he began to execute his office lone
before be had his commission for it ; for I find
by his letters, which are of a more early date,
that be had proceeded so far as to treat, with
father Ferryer, who was the French king's con-
fessor,, before he had actually received this
commission* You will understand by the let-
ters/which we shall produce, what he bad to
do with him, and what with the other con-
fessor that succeeded, Father La Chaise.
There were two small matters they treated of,
no less than the dissolving the parliament ; and
the extirpation of the Protestant religion. Nay,
you will find, and you, will bear enough, when
the letters come to be read, that Mr. Coleman
made many strokes at the parliament, be bad
no good opinion of them. And we cannot
blame him; for without all perad venture they
bad made, and I hope ever will make, strong
resistance agaiust such designs as these. But
« great mind he had to be rid of tbem ; and
be bad hopes of great sums of money from
abroad, if it had been to be done that way.
And it is very remarkable (and shews the
vanity of the man,) he had such an opinion of
the success of these negotiations, that be had
penned a declaration prepared by him, and
writ with his own hand, to be published in
print, upon tbe dissolution of the parliament,
to justify that action with rospy specious and
plausible reasons. As he did this without any -
direction, so he take* upon bun tn write a de-
claration, as in the name of thw king, without
the least shadow of any command to do it, so
he prepares a letter also in the name of the -
duke : and I would not affirm, unless I could
prove it, and that from his own confession,
(being examined before the lords upon oath)
that he had no manner of authority from the
duke to prepare such a letter ; and when it
was writteo and brought to the duke, it was) .
rejected, *»d the writer justly blamed for hie •■
presumption. By this you will perceive the *
forwardness of this man. Aud you must of
necessity take notice, that in his letters he took*
upon himself to manage afiairs, as authorised
by the greatest persons in the kingdom, yet
without the least shadow of proof that be was
by them impowered to do it.
My lord, you shall find, Mr. Coleman *
thought himself above all; and each was bis
own over-weening opinion of his wit and po-
licy, that he thought himself the sole and su-
preme director of all the affairs of the Catho-
lics. You will likewise perceive that he held,
intelligence with cardinal Norfolk,* with Fa-
ther Sheldon, and the pope's internuncio at
Brussels. And I cannot but observe out of
the proofs, that as we shall find Mr. Coleman,
very ambitious and forward in .all great affairs,
so be had a little too much eye to the reward p
he looked too much a-equint upon the matter
of money: his great endeavours were not so*
much out of conscience, or out of seal to hi*
religion, as out of temporal interest ; to him
gain was instead of godliness. And by me let-
ters to the French confessor M. La Chaise, it '
will be proved, that he got much money from.
the Catholics here, and some from abroad, but
still be wanted money. What to do i (I do
not mean the greater sum of 200,000/. to pron
cure the dissolution of the parliament, but
some SOyOOO/. only) to be expended by him
in secret service, I do not know what ac-.
count he would have given of it, if he had
been intrusted with it. But that he earnestly
thirsted after money, appeareth by most of ma
letters. t
My lord, you will observe, besides his in-
telligences, that be bad with father La Chaise,
and several others, one that deserves to bo
named, and that is his negotiation with sir
William Frogmorton, who was sent over into
France, and there resided a long time to pro-
mote these designs. He is dead; therefore
I will not say much of him, as I would say
against him, if lie was here to be tried. But,
my lord, I find in bis letters such treasonable^
such impious expressions against the king, sucn
undtttiful characters of him, that no good sub-
ject would write, and no good subject would
receive and conceal, as Mr. Coleman hath
done. My lord, it may pass for a wonder,
how we came to be masters of aU these pa-
pers ; it has in part been (old you already.
There was an information given of the ge-
neral design^nay of some of the particular*
tt) tfTATE TRIALS SO Charles
against the bag's life. And without al) petad-
veatare, Mr. Coleman knew of this discovery;
aed lie kaaw that he had papers that could
speak too attach, and he had time and oppor*
teaky enough to nave made them away; and I
make no question bat he did make many
•way. We are not able' to prove the conti-
naanoe of hie correspondence, so as to mate it
dearly out ; hot we suppose that continued
eetift urn day he was seised. And there is
this to be proved, that letters came for Mm,
ibongh we cannot say any were deHVefed to
aha, after lie was in prison. Bat without all
aeradtentare the man had too much to do, too
©any papers to conceal : then, you'll say, he
might have bornt them all (for many would
tarn as well as a few :) But then he had lost
aiucfa of the honour of a great statesman ;
many a line sentence, and many n deep in-
trigue bad been lost to alt posterity. I believe
that weowe~this discovery tosomethint of Mr.
Coalman's vanity : he would not lose the (dory
of managing these important negotiations about
to great a design : Hf thought it was no small
fcpatatioo to be intrusted with the secrets of
foreign ministers. If this was not his reason,
God (I believe) took away from him that clear-
aess of jodgtnent, and strength of memory,
which he had upon other occasions. *
My lord, I shall no longer detain yon from
reading the papers themselves. But I cannot
hot account tins kingdom happy, that these
p apsis are preserved. For (my lord) we are to
deal with a sort of men, that have that prodi-
gians confidence, that their words and deeds
(though proved by never so unsuspected testi-
mony) they will still deny. Bat (my lord) no
denial of this plot will prevail, for Mr. Cole-
man himself bath, with his own band, recorded
ths conspiracy: nad ve can prove bis hand,
noc oafy by Ins own servants, and relations, but
by Ins own confession. So that (my Lord) I
dnabt not, that if there be any of their own
nasty that hear this trial, they themselves will
be satisfied with the truth of these things. And
I believe we have an advantage in this case,
witch they will not allow us, in another
saatner ; namely, that we shall be for this once
permitted to believe our own senses. Our
Evidence coosssfeth of two parts : one is, wit*
i ftfoi, which we desire (with the fa-
ce* the oeurt) to begin with ; and' when
s 4kme, we shall read several letters or
negotiations, in writing, and so -submit the
to josjt lornShip^a direction.
Aa>. I bag leave that a poor ignorant man, •
o heavily charged. Atk it seems a 1 ittte
to consider the reason, why a prisoner,
s case as this is, is not allowed counsel ;
yomr lordship is supposed to be counsel for
Butt 1 think it very hand I cannot be
naV counsel; and I humbly hope your
krdabrp will not sotier ma to he lost by things
that myself cannot answer. I deny the con-
but the nrsaafltes are too strong and
It. \61B —for High Treason. [H
Sir WiU&m -Scrogg* LsC. J. i* on cannot
the premises, but that yon have done
these things: but you deny the conclusion,
that you are a traitor 4
Prit. I can safety and honestly. ' ' *
L. C. J. You would make a better Secre-
tary of State, than a logician ; for they neter
deny the conclusion.
JVit. I grant it year Lordship : yob *See
the advantage great men have of me, that do
not pretend to Logic.
£. C. J. The labour lies upon their
hands ; the proof belongs to them to make our
these intrigues of yours ; therefore von need!
not have counsel, because the proof must be
plain upon you,f and then it wnl be in vain to
deny the conclusion.
Pro. I hope, my lord, if there be any point
of law tbttt I am not skilled in, that your lord-
ship will be pleased not to take the advantage
over me. Another thing seems most dreadful,
tba\ is, the violent prejudice that seems to be
against every man in England, that is confessed
to be a Jtanan Catholic. It is possible that a
Roman Catholic may be very innocent of these
crimes. If one 6f those innocent Roman Ca*
tbolics should come to this bar, he lies under
such disadvantages already, and hb nrejodices
so greatly bfasseth human nature, tnat unless
your' lordship will lean extremely much on the
other side, justice will hardly stand upright;
and lie upon a level. But to satisfy your lord-
ship, I do not think it any service to destroy
any of the king's subjects, unless it be in a very
plain case.
L. C. J. You need not make any prepara-
tions for us in this matter, you shall have a fair,'
just, and legal trial : if condemned, it will be
apparent you ought to be so ; and without a
fair proof, there shall be no condemnation.
Therefore you shall find, we will not do to you,
as you do to us; blow up at adventure, kill peo- -
pie because they are not of your persuasion ;
our religion teacheth us another doctrine, and
you shall find it clearly to your advantage. We
seek no man's blood but our own safety. Put
you are brought here from the necessity of
things, which yourselves have made ; and from
your own actions you shall be condemned or
acouitted.
Frit. It is supposed upon Evidence, that'
the Examinations that have been of me in piv*
son, are like to be evidence against me how j I
have nothing to say against it : but give me
leave to say at this time, that when! was in
prison, I was upon my ingenuity charged ; I
----- — *
* See the character of this Chief -Justice as
drawn by Burnet, ante vol. 6, p. 1495. And
what opinion the House of Commons had of
him by their votes Dec. 25, 1680. See Cob-
hetr/s Pari. Hist. vol. 4. And see more of him
in a note to the trial of Mrs. Cellier for High
Treason, Jpne 81, 1680, infra.
t See the Note to Don Pauraleon Se'sCase,
ante, vol. 4, p. 466, and that fee Twyn's Cese^
eat*, vol. 6, p. frlS.
f
1J] STATE TRIALS* 30 Cju»l»s II. l6?«.-~4Ko! qf Edward Caiman, [16
premised I would confess all I knew. And I
only say tbis, That what t said in prison is true,
and am ready at any time to swear and evi-
dence, that that is all thejrutb.
L. C.J. It is all true thai you say ; but did
you tell all that was true?
- Pri$* I know no more, than what I declared
. to the two Houses.
£. C. J. Mr. Coleman, t will tell you when
you will be apt to gain credit in this matter :
you say, that too told all things that you knew,
the truth, and the whole truth. Can mankind
he persuaded* that you, that bad tbis negotiation
in 167* and 1675, left off just then, at that
time whea tout letters were found according to
their dates r do you believe, there was no ne-
gociation after 1675, because we have not found
them? have you spoke one word to that } have
yea confessed, or produced those papers and
weekly imellisjrace r when you answer that, you
may have credit ; without that, it is impossible :
for I cannot £ive credit to one word you sap
unless you give an account of the subsequent
qesjpcaation.
Prix. After that time (as I said to the House
of Commons) 1 did give over corresponding.
t did offer to take aH oaths and torts in the
world, that I never bad one letter for at least f
two years ; yea, (that I may keep myself within
compass) I tbiak it was for three or tour. Now
I have acknowledged to the House of Com-
mons, I have bad a cursory correspondence,
which 1 never regarded or valued ; but as the
letters. came, I burnt them, or made use of them
as common paper. I say, that for the general
correspondence I have had for two or three
years, they have bad every one of them letters
that I know of.
Alt. 0<n. Whether you bad or no, you shall
have the fairest trial that can be. And we
cannot blame the gentleman, for he is more
used to greater affairs, than these matters or
form* of law. Bui my lord, I desire to go
unto evidence, and when that is done, he shall
be heard, as long as he pleasetb, without any
interruption. It he desire it, before I give my
evidence, let him have Pea, Xok, and Paper
with your lordship's leave.
JL. Q. /. Help him to pen, ink, and paper*
Hccord. Then we desire tojp on in our evi-
dence. Wr desire tbat Mr. Qates may not be
interrupted*
. Court. He shall not be interrupted.
. Ati. Qtm* The Jfirst thing we will inquire,
what account he can give of the prisoner at tbe
bar, whether he was any way privy to the mur-
der of the king f
JL C- /• Afr. Qetes, we leave it to yourself
to take your own way, and your own method :
only this we say, here's a gentleman stands ait
the bar, fur his/tie ; and on the other side, Abe
king is concerned for his life :. you are to speak
the truth mid the whoje truth; for there as no
reason in the world thajt you should add any
oae thing that is false* I would not have a lit-
tle added for tffcy advantage, or consequences
that may fall, when a man'i Inood and life Ucth
at stake: let him be condemned by troth 5 yoer
have taken an oath, and you being a minister
know the great ragaad you ought to have of the
sacrednessot an oath ; and tbat to take a man's*
life away by a false oath is murder, I need 00c
teach you that. But that Mr. Coleman may
be satisfied in the trial, and all •eople else hi
satisfied, there is nothing required or expected,
bat downright plain truth, and without any arte
either to conceal, or expatiate, to make thtnge
larger tha»i in truth they are : he must be con-
demned by plain evidence of /act.
OaU$. My Lord, Mr. Coleman, in the month
of November last, did eatertaio in his own
houte John Keins, which John Keins was a.
Father-Confessor to certain persons that were
converted, asaoneat which I was one. My
Lord, I went and visited this John Keins at
Mr. Coleman's bouse then in 6table-yard. Mr.
Coleman inquiring of John Keius who I was ? He'
said I was one that designed to go over upon
business to St. Omen. My Lord, Mr. Coleman*
told me then he should trouble me with a letter
or two to St. Omers, bu| he told me he would
leave them with one Fenwick, that was procu-
rator for the society of Jesuits in London. I
went en Monday morning and took coach, went
to Dover, and bad his packet with me, which
packet when I came to St. Omers I opened.
The outside sheet of ibis paper was a letter of
news which was called Mr. Coleman's letter,
and at tbe bottom of this letter there was this
recommendation, Pray recommend me to my
kinsman Plavford. In this letter of news there
were expressions of the king, calling him tyrant,
and that the marriage between the prince .of
Orange and the lady Mary tlie duke of York's
eldest daughter would prove the traitor's and
tyrant's ruin.
JL C. J. In what language was it written ?
Oate$. In plain English words at length.
L. C. J. Pirected to whom ?
QalCf. It was directed fc> the Rector of St. •
Omers, to give him intelligence how affairs went
in England.
L. C. J. Did yon break it open ? >
Oate*. I was at the opening of it, and saw k,
and read it. There was a letter to Father La
Chaise, which was superscribed by the same
hand that the treasonable letter of news was
written, and the same hand that the recmnnseaoV
ation. to Playrord was wr ittcu . in. When this
letter was open there was .a seal fiat, a iying
seal, and no man's name to it.
JL C. J. What was the contents of that let-
ter to La Chaise?
Gate. My Lord, to.give,you an account, of
the import of this letter, k was autt in Latin,
aad in Jt there were shanks given to Father La>
Chaise for the 10,000/ which was jpven for the
propagation of the Catholic Religion, and that
it should he employed for no other intent And
purpose hex that for whichrt jvas sent, now that
was to cut off tbe king of .England ; those worda
were not in that letter;- bet. La Chaise letter,
to which tbis was tbe answer, I snw mii'd read.
It was dated the month of August, and as near
STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. \#7$—fbr High Treason.
17]
a* I remember there was this instruction in it,
That the 10,000/. should be employed far no
other latent and purpose bat to cot off the king
of England ; I do not swear the words, but that
is the sense and substance; I believe I may
swear the words.
X. C. J. To whom was that directed ?
Oofcs. To one Strange, that was then pro-
vincial of the society in London, which Mr.
Coleman answered.
L. C J. How came Mr. Coleman to an-
swer it ?
Oates. Strange having run a reed into his
finger, bad wounded his hand, and secretary
Mico was ill, so he got Mr. Coleman to write
an answer unto it.
L. C. J. Did be write it as from himself?
Gates. Yes, by order of the provincial.
L. C. J. What was the substance ef that
answer ?
Oates. That thanks was giren to him in the
name of the whole society for the 10,000/.
which was paid aod received here, and that
it should be employed to the intent for which
it was received. It was superscribed from
Mr. Coleman.
L. C. J. Was it subscribed Coleman ?
Gate*. It was not subscribed ; I did not
see him write it, but I really believe it was by.
the tame hand. I went and delivered this
[id
I* C.J. 1 understood you because of the
accident of his hand he had employed Mr.
Coleman to write this for him.
Oates. lie did write this letter then, the
body of the letter was written by Mr. Coleman.
I ail not see him write it, but I shall gi ve'an
account how I can prove be wrote it. I deli-
vered this Letter to La Chaise his own band.
When I opened the letter he asked me how
a gentleman (naming a French name) did
no.
L. C. J. When you carried this letter,
Too carried it to La Chaise and delivered it to
aim : then he asked you of the gentleman
ef the French name, whom meant he by t liat
Oates. I understood it to be Mr. Cole-
man.
L. C. J. Did he know him by some French
name ? What said you ?
Dales. I could say little to this.
L* C. /. Could you guess whom he
meant?
Oates. He told me he was sometime secre-
tary to the dutchess pf York, which I under-
stood to be Mr. Coleman. m I stuck at it, and
when he said he was sometime secretary to
the dutchess of York, I spoke in Latin to him,
and asked whether he meant Mr. Coleman, and
his answer T cannot remember. He sends an
answer to this letter. I brought it to St. Omers
and there it was inclosed in the letter from the
society to Coleman ; wherein the society
expressly told him this letter was. delivered
tad acknowledged. 1 saw the. letter at St.
Oners, and §** letter was sent to him.
tol. yiL
Mr. Coleman did acknowledge the receipt of
this letter from La Chaise in the same hand
with that of the newsletter, and so it was un-
derstood by all. I saw it.
L. C. J. How came you to see it ?
Oates. I by a patent from them was of
the consult.
L. C. J. You saw the letter of the same
hand which the news letter was of with Mr.
Coleman's name subscribed ?
Oates. The contents of the letter did own
the letter from La Chaise was received ; this'
letter whs presumed to be the hand-writing of
Mr. Coleman, aod it was understood to be Mr.%
Coleman's letter.
L. C. J. You say the letter was thanks for
the 10,000/. what was the other contents ?
Oates. That all endeavours should he used1
to cut off- the Protestant Religion root aud
branch.
L. C. J. You say you delivered this letter,
from whom had you it ?
Oates. From Fen wick, it was left m hi*
hand, and he accompanied me from Groves to
the coach, and gave it to me.
L. C. J. Did you bear him speak to Mr.
Coleman to write for him?
Oates. Strange told me he bad spoke to
him.
L. C. J. He doth suppose it was Mr. Cole-
man's hand because it was just the same hand
that the news letter was. Are you sure the
letter was of his hand ?
Gates. It was taken for his hand.
Justice Wild. Had he such a kinsman
there?
Oates. Yes, he hath confessed it.
Att. Gen. We desire your lordship he may
give an account of the consult here in May
last, and how far Mr. Coleman was privy to
the murdering of the king.
Oates. In the month of April old style
in the month of May new stile, there was '
a consult held, it was begun at the White-
Horse Tavern, it did not continue there. Al-
ter that there they liad consulted to send one
Father Cary to be agent and procurator to
Rome, they did adjourn themselves to several
clubs in companies ; some met at Wild-House,
and some at Harcourt's lodging in Duke-street
some met at Ireland's lodging in Russel-street ;
and some in Feu wick's lodging in Drury-Lane.
They were ordered to meei by virtue of a brief
from Rome, sent by the Father general of the
society : They went on to these resolves, that
Pickering and Groves should go on and con-
tinue in attempting to assassinate the king's
person by shooting, or other means. Groves
was to have 1,500/. Pickering being a religi-
ous man was to have 30,000 Masses, which at
1 %d. a mass amounted much w hat to that money..
This resolve of the Jesuits was communicated
to Mr. Coleman in my hearing at Wild-House.
My Lord, this was not only so, hut in several
letrers he did mention it ; and in one letter (I
think I was gone a few miles out of London)
he sent to me by a messenger, and did desire
C
I»J
STATE TRIALS, 30Cj*ar*es II. 1678 — Triat qf Edward Coleman, [«*
the duke might be trepanned into this Plot to
murder the king.
L. C. J. IIow did he desire it ?
Oatet. In a letter, that all means should be
ased for the drawing in the duke. This letter
was written to one Ireland. I saw the Letter
and read it.
L. C. J. How do you know k was his
letter ?
Oatet. Because of the instructions, which
I saw Mr. Coleman take a copy of and write,
which was the same hand with the news Utter,
and what else I have mentioned, the subscription
was, ' Recommend me to Father La Chaise ?'
and it was the same hand whereof I now
speak.
L. C. J. What was the substance of the
Letter ?
Oatet. Nothing but compliment, and re-
commendation, and that all means might be
used for the trepanning the duke of York (as
near as I can remember thnt was the word).
Just. Wild. You did say positively that Mr.
Coleman did consent and agree to what was
consulted by the Jesuits, which was to kill the
king, and Jrickeung and Groves were the two
persons designed to do it. Did you hear him
consent to it?
Oates. I heard him say at 'Wild-House, he
thought it was well contrived.
, Recorder. Do the gentlemen of the jury
henr what he saith ?
L. C. J. Gentlemen of the j ury , do you hear
what he saith ?
Jury* Yes.
Alt. Gen. What do yon know of any re-
WUioji to have been raised in Ireland ? and
what was to be done with the duke of Or-
mond?
„ Oates. In the month of August tliere was
a consult with the Jesuits, and with the Bene-
dictine monks at the Savoy. In this month of
August there was a letter writ from archbishop
Talbot, the titular archbishop of Dublin ;
wherein he gave au account of a legate from
the pope, an Italian bishop, (the bishop of Cas-
tay I think) who asserted the pope's right to the
kingdom of Ireland. In this letter (to men-
tion in special) there were four Jesuits bad con-
trived to dispatch the duke of Ormond, these
were his words, * To 6nd the most expedient
way for his death/ and Fogarthy was to he sent
to do it by poison, if these four good Fathers
did not hit of their design. Myl^rd, Fogarthy
was preseut. And when the consult was
almost at a period, Mr. Coleman came to the
Savoy to the consult, and was mighty forward
to have Father Fogarthy sent to Ireland to dis-
patch the Duke by poison. This letter did
specify they were there ready to rise in rebel-
lion against the king for the pope.
Alt. Gen, Do you know any thing of arms ?
Oates. There were 40,000 black bills, I am
not so skilful in arms to know what they meant
(military men know what they are) that were
provided to be sent into Ireland ; but they
ware ready, for the use of the catholic party.
L. C. J. Who were tbey provided by ?
Oates. I do not know,
L. C. J. IIow do you know they were pre*
vided ?
Oatet. That letter doth not mention who
they were provided by, but another letter men-
tioned they were provided by those that were
commission officers for the aid and help of the
pope ; the popish commissioners tbey were pro*
vided by, and they had them ready in Ire*
laud.
L. C. J. Who wrote this letter ?
Oatet. It came from Talbot, I might forget
the day of the month because my information
is so large, but it was the former part of the
year, I think either January or February, 1667-8*
last January or February.
L. C. J. Was this consult but in August
last ? .
Oatet. I am forced to run back from that
consult to this ; Mr. Coleman was privy, and
was the main agent, and did in the month of
August last past say to Fenwick, he hadfooud a
way to transmit the 200,000/. for the carrying
on of this rebellion in Ireland.
L. C.J. Did you bear him say so t
Oatet. I did, a week before.
L. C. J. You say be was very forward to
send Fogarthy into Ireland to kill the duke of
Ormond ?
Oatet. Yes, that I say ; and that he bad
found a way to transmit 200,000/. to carry on
the rebellion in Ireland.
Court. Who was by besides Fenwick I
Oatet. Myself and nobody else.
Court. Where was it said?
OaUs. In Fenwick's chamber in Dairy-
lane.
AU. Gen. Do you know any thing of trans-
mitting the money to Windsor, or persuading
any to be sent thither, and the time when ?
Oatet. In the month of August there were*
four ruffians procured by Dr. Fogarthy. These
four were not nominated in the consult with
the Benedictine Convent, but, my Lord, these
four ruffians without names were accepted of by
them.
Court. Who proposed them ?
Oatet. Fogarthy. These four Irishmen were
sent that night Jo Windsor. How they went I
know not, but the next day tliere was a pro-
vision of 80/. ordered to them by the rector of
London, which is a Jesuit, one William Har-
court, in the name of the provincial, because
he acted in his name and authority, the pro*
vincial being then beyond the seas, visiting hie
colleges in Flanders.
L. C. J. Did he order the 80/.
Oates. Mr. Coleman came to this Har*
court's house, then lying in Duke street, and
Harcourt was not within ; but he was directed
to come to Wild-bouse, and at Wild-house he
found Harcourt.
L. C. J. How do you know that ?
Oates. He said be had been at his house*
and was not within ; finding bun at Wild-bouse,
be asked what care was take* for those tour
*l]
STATS TRIALS, 30 Chaklbs II. 1078.— ^br HigA TWa*m.
Sntlemen that went lost night to Windsor ?
e said there was BO/, ordered.
JL C. J. Who said so ?
Oales. Harcourt. And there was the mes-
senger that was to carry it J think the most
part of this 80/. was in guineas : Mi*. Coleman
gave the messenger a guinea to be nimble, and
to expedite hisjourney.
L. C. J. How know you they were guineas ?
Octet. I saw die money upon the table be-
fore Harcourt, not in his hand.
I*. C. J. Were the four Irishmen there ?
Oates. No, they were gone before I came.
L. C. J. Who was to carry it after them,
what was his name f
Onto. I never saw him befoie or since.
The money was upon the table when Mr.
Coleman came in, he gave the messenger a
guinea to expedite the business.
Recorder. You say Mr. Coleman enquired
.what care was taken for those ruffians that
were to assassinate the king ; pray, Mr. Oates,
tell my Lord, and the jury, what you can say
concerning Mr. Coteman*s discourse with one
Ashby.
Oates. In the month of July, one Ash by,
who was sometime Hector of St. Omers, being
31 of the govt was ordered to go to the bath ;
this Ash by being in London, Mr. Coleman
came to attend him ; this Ash by brought with
him treasonable instructions, in order to dis-
patch the king by poison, provided Pickering
and Groves did not do the work: 10,000/.
should he proposed to sir George Wakeman to
poison the king, in case pistol and stab did not
take effect, and opportunity was to be taken
at the king's taking physic. T could give other,
evidence, bnt will not, because of other things
which are not fit to be known yet.
L. C. J. Who wrote this letter ?
Oates, ft was under hand of White the pro-
vincial beyond the seas, whom Ashby left ; it
was m the name of memorials to impower
Ashby and the rest of the consumers at London
to propound 10,000/. to sir George Wakeman
to take the opportunity to poison the king.
These instructions were seen and read by Mr.
Coleman, by him copied out, and transmitted
to several conspirators of the king's death, in
this kingdom of England, that were privy to
dm plot.
Recorder. Know vou of any commission?
We hare hitherto spoken altogether of the work
of others ; now we come to his own work a lit-
tle nearer.
L.C. J. Who saw Mr. Coleman read these
Instructions? What said he?
Oates. He said he thought it was too little, I
sard him say so.
JL C J. Did yoo see him take a copy of
e»e instructions f
Oates. Yes, and he said he did believe sir
George Wakeman wonld scarce take it, and
thought it necessary the other 5,000/. should
be added to it, that they might be sure to have
L.C.J. Where was it he said this ?
i
Oates. It was in the provincial's chamber,
which Ashby had taken for his convenience at
London, ontil he went down tp the hath ; it
was at Wild- house, at Mr. Sanderson's house.
L. C J. Ashby waseinpl >yed by his instruc-
tions to acquaint the consult of the Jesuits, that
there should be 10,000/. advanced, if Dr.
Wakeman would poison the king, now Ashby
comes and acquaints him with it. Why should
Coleman take copies ?
Oates. Because he was to send copies to
several conspirators in the kingdom of England.
L. C. J. To what purpose should Mr. Cole-
man take a copy of U>ese instructions ?
Oates. *The reason is plain ; they were then
a gathering a contribution about the kingdom,
and these instructions were sent that they might
he encouraged, because they saw there was en-
couragement from beyond seas to assist them.
And another reason was, because now they
were assured ^>y this, their business would
quickly he dispatched, and by this means soma
thousands of pounds were gathered in the king-
dom of England.
L. C. J. To whom was Mr. Coleman to send
them?
Oates. I know not of any persons, but Mr.
Coleman did say he had sent his suffrages
(which was a canting word for instructions) to
the principal gentry of the catholics of the
kingdom of England.
JL. C. J. How know you this, that Mr. Cola-
man did take a copy of these instructions for
that purpose, as you say?
Oates. Because he said so.
L. C. J. Did any body ask him why he took
them?
Oates. Saith A$hby, You bad best make haste
and communicate these things. Mr. Coleman
answered, I will make haste with my copies,
that I may dispatch them away this night.
Recorder. Was he not to he one of the prin*
cipal secretaries of state ?
Oates. In the month of May last New'Stile,
April Old Stile, I think within a day after our
consult, I was at Mr. Langhorn's chamber, be
had several commissions, which he called pa-
tents : Among his commissions, I saw one from
the general of the society of Jesus Joannes
Paulus D'Oliva, by virtue of a brief from the
pope, by whom he was enabled.
L. €. J, Did you know his hand ?
Oates. I believe I have seen it forty times, I
have seen forty tilings under his hand, and this
agreed with them, hut I never did see him write
in my life ; we all took it to be his hand and
we ail knew the hand and seal.
L. C. J. What inscription was upon the
seal ?
Oates. I.H.S. with a cross, in English it
had the characters of I. H. S. This com-
mission to Mr. Coleman in the month of July,
I saw in Fen wick's presence, and at his cham-
ber in Drury-lane, where then Mr. Coleman
did acknowledge the receipt of this patent,
opened it, and said; It was a very good ax-
change.
33] STATE TRIALS, 30 Chaules II. lG7B^rfrial qfEdvard Coleman, [24
X. C* J. What was the ooinmission for ?
Oates. It war to be secretary of state. I
saw the commission, and heard him own the
receipt of it.
Justice Wild. What other commissions were
there at Mr. Langhorn's chamber ?
Oates. A great many, I cannot remember,
there wns a commission for my lord Arundel of
Warder, the lord Powis, and several other per-
sons. But this belongs not to the prisoner
at the bar : I mention bis commission.
X. C J. Were you acquainted with Mr.
Langhorn?
Oalet. Yes, I will tell yonr lordship how I
was acquainted. I was in Spain, he had there
two sons; to shew them special favour and
kindness (being mere straugers at the College) I
did use to transmit some letters for them to the
kingdom of England in my pnequet. When 1
came out of Spain, I did receive recommenda-
tions from them to their father, and in great
^civility he received me. This was in Novem-
ber that I came to his house. He lived in Shear-
Jane, or thereabouts. I understood that his
wife was a zealous protectant; therefore he de-
tired me not to come any more to his bouse,
hut for the futuie to come to his chamber in
the Temple.
X. C. J. Had you ever seen Mr. Langhorn in
London before ?
Oates. I never saw him till Nov. 1677 to my
knowledge. I was several times in bis com-
pany at his chamber, and be brought me there to
shew me some kindness upon the account of
his sons. It was at the Temple) for his wife
being a protestant, was not willing any Jesuits
should come to the house. I was to carry him
a summary of all the results and particulars of
the consult at the White-horse and Wild-bouse.
The provincial ordered me to do it, he know-
ing me, being in that affair often employed.
a X/ C. J. Was it the second time you saw
him, that you saw the commissions ?
Gates. I saw him several times in the month
of November.
X. C. J. When did you see the commissions?
Oates. In the month of April, Old Stile ;
May, New Stile.
X. C. J. How came he to shew you the
commissions?
Oates. I I tearing of their being come, had a
curiosity to see them, and be knew me to be
privy to the concerns.
X. C. J. How did you know he had the
commissions?— Oates. By letters.
X. C. /. From whom ?
Oates. From those of the society at Rome,
wherein one Harcourt, one of the fathers, was
certified, that the commissions were come to
Langhorn, and were in his hand ; I saw the
letters at St Oners, before they came to Har-
court, we read the letters there before they
came to England. I had power to open them.
X. C. J. Did you open the letters ?
Oates. Yes.
L.C.J, When saw yoo the letters at St.
Omen?
Oates. I saw the letters at St. Omers in the
month of January ; then they came from Rome,
and after I received summons to be at this con-
sult in the mouth of April; and accordingly we?
came over.
X. C. J. What time did you come over ?
Oatei. In the month of April.
X. C. J. What time went you to Langhorn's
chamber? I cannot reconcile the months toge-
ther.
Jutt. Dolben. Did you not say you came to
Langhorn in November ?
Oates. Yes, before I went to St. Omers.
Just. Wild. How many came over with you?
Oates. I cannot tell how many came over
together; there wete nine of us, all Jesuits.
X. C. J. Did not you say you went to Lang-
horn in November?
Oates. That was before I went to St. Omers.
Att. Gen. Tell bow many priests or Jesuits
were lately in England, that you know afx at
one time ?
Oates. There was, and have been to my
knowledge in the kingdom of England, secular
priests eightscore, and Jesuits fourscore, and by
name in the catalogue, I think 300 and odd.
X. C. J, How long had you been in Eng-
land before you were at Mr. Langhorn's cham-
ber?
Oates. Not long ; because I had letters in
my packet from his sons, as soon as 1 had rested
a little, I went to him.
L. C. J. What said Mr. Langhorn to you
about the commissions in bis chamber ?
Oates. Not a word; but seemed glad.
X. C J. Did you see them open upon his
table? or did yoo ask to see them?
Oates. They did not lie open upon the ta-
ble, but the commissions were before him ; I
asked to see them. Mr. Langhorn (said 1) I
hear you have received the commissions from
Home ; he said, he bad. Shall I have the ho-
nour to see some of them ? He said I might :
he thought he might trust me; and so he might,
because that very day I gave him an account
of the consult.
X. C. J. When was it you gave him an ac-
count of the consult?
Oates. In the morning.
X. C. J. You say you were twice there that
day. — Oates. I was there the whole forenoon.
X. C. J. That day you saw the commissions?
Oates. I had been there several times the
same day, and meeting him at last, be asked
me how often I was there before, I said twice
or thrice; but that day was the last time I ever
saw him ; I bave not seen him since, to my
knowledge.
X. C. J. Was that the first time that you
saw him after you came from Spain?
Oates. I saw bim thrice in November, then
I went to St. Omers, the first time I saw him
after I came from thence, I saw the commis-
sions.
Att. Gen. What were the names of ihose
men that came over from St. Omers besides
yourself?
w\
STATE TRIALS, 50 Cham.es II. 1678.— /or High Treason.
[26
Ofcto. Am near as I can remember, the rec-
tor of Liege was one; Father Warren ; sirTho-
nnPwsum ; the rector of Walton ; one Fran-
cs Williams; air John Warner, bart.; one Fa-
ther Charges ; one Pool, a monk ; I think I
made the ninth.
Alt. Gea. If the prisoner at tbe bar be
aiadsd, be may ask him any question.
Pris. I am mighty glad to see that gentle-
wan sir Thomas Dolman in the Court, for I
think he was upon my Examination before tbe
council, and this man that gives now in evidence
against me, there told the king, he never saw
me before ; and he is extremely well acquainted
»iih me now, and hath a world of intimacy.
Mr. Oates at that time gave such an account of
ray concern in this matter, that I had orders to
go to Newgate, I never saw Mr. Oates since I
was born, but at that time.
L- C. J. You shall have as fair a search and
examination in this matter for your life as can
be, therefore, Mr. Oates, answer to what Mr.
Coleman saith.
Oaf ex. My lord, when Mr. Coleman was
upon bis examination before the council board,
he saith, I said there that I never saw him be-
fore in my life, I then said I would not swear
mat I had seen him before in my life, because
my sight was bad by candle-light, and candle-
light alters the sight much, but when 1 heard
bun speak I could have sworn it was he, but
it was not then my business. I cannot see a
great way bycaodle- light.
L. C. J. The stress of the objection lieth not
opon seeing so mud), but how come you that
yon laid no more to Mr. Coleman's charge at
that time?
Oates, I did design to lay no more to his
charge then, than was matter for information.
Por prisoners may supplant evidence when they
know it, and bring persons to such circum-
stances, as time and place. My lord, I was
not bound to give in more than a general infor-
mation against Mr. Coleman ; Mr. Coleman
aid deny he had correspondence with Father
La Chaise at any time, I did then say he had
given him an account of several transactions.
And (my Lord) then was I so weak, being up
two nights, and having been taking prisoners,
opon my salvation, I could scarce stand upon
jny legs."
L. C. J. What was the information you gave at
that time to the council against Mr. Coleman?
Oates. The information I gave at that time
(as near as I can remember, but I would not
trust to my memory) was for writing of news-
letters, in which I did then excuse tbe treasona-
ble reflections, and called them1 base reflections
at the Coondf-Board ; the king was sensible,
aud so was tbe council. I was so wearied and
tired (being all that afternoon before tbe coun-
cil, and Sunday night, and sitting up nigbt after
night) that the king was willing to discharge me.
But if I had been urged J should have made a
larger information.
Z. C. J. The thing you accused him of was
ton own letter,
Pris. 'He doth not believe it was ray letter.
L. C. J. Von here charge Mr. Coleman to
be the man that gave a guinea to expedite the
business at Windsor, 6cc. At the time when
you were examined at the council- table, you
gave a particular account of attempting to take
away the kind's life at Windsor, and raising
80,000/. and ail those great transactions; why
did you not charge Mr. Coleman to be the man
that gave the guinea to tbe messenger to expe-
dite the business, when the 80/. was sent ? That
he found out a way of transmitting 800,000/.,
to carry on the design ? He consulted the kill-
ing the king, and appro? ed of- it very well.
And of the instructions for 10,000/., be said it
was too little for to poison the kiog. When
you were to give an account to the council of
the particular contrivance of the murder of the
king at Windsor, with a reward, you did men-
tion one reward of 10,000/. to Dr. Wakemari,
and would you omit the guinea to expedite tbe
messenger, and that he said that 10,000/. was
too little; would you omit all this?
Oates. I being so tired nnd weak that I was
not able to stand upon my legs, and I remem-
ber tbe council apprehended me to be so weak
that one of the lords of the council said, that if
there were any occasion further to examine Mr.
Coleman, that Mr. Oates should be ready
again, and bid me retire.
L. C. J. You was by when the council were
ready to let Mr. Coleman go almost at large?
Oates. No ; I never apprehended that, for if
I did, I should have given a further account.
L. C. J. What was done to Mr. Coleman
at that time ? Was be sent away prisoner ?
Oates. Yes, at that time to the messenger's •
house, and within two days after be was sent to
Newgate, nnd his papers were seized.
L. C. J. Why did you not name Coleman
at that time ?
Oates. Because I had spent a great deal of
time in accusing other Jesuits.
Just. Wild. What time was there betwixt the
first time you were at the -council, before you
told of this matter concerning tbe king ?
Oates. When I was first at the board (which
was on Saturday night) I made information,
which began between 6 and 7, and lasted al-
most to 10. I did then give a general account
of the affairs to the council without the king.
Then I went and took prisoners, and before
Sunday night, I said, I thought if Mr. Cole-
man's Papers were searched into, they would
find matter enough against him in those papers
to hang him : I spake those words, or words to
the like purpose. After that Mr. Coleman's
Papers were searched, Mr. Coleman was not
to be found ; but he surrendered himself the
next day. So that on Sunday I was com-
manded to give his majesty a general informa-
tion, as I had given to the council on Saturday ;
and the next day again, I took prisoners that
night 5, and next night 4.
Just. Wild. How long was it betwixt the
time that you were examined, and spoke only
as to the letteis, to that1 time you told to th«
*7J
STATE TRIALS, SO Charles U. 1678 — Ttid o/ Edward Cdeman,
[28
Icing nnd council, or both of them, concerning
this matter you swear now ?
Oates. My Lord, 1 never told it to the king
and council, but I told it to the houses of par-
liament.
X. C. J. How long was it between the one
«nd the other?
Oatet. I cannot tell exactly the time; k was
when the parliament first sat.
X. C. /. How came, you (Mr. Coleman being
so desperate a man as he was, endeavouring
the killing of the king) to omit your informa-
tion of it to the council and to the king at both
times?
Oates. I spoke little of the persons till the
persons came face to race.
X. C. X Why did you not accuse all those
Jesuits by name?
Gates. We took a catalogue of their names,
but those I did accuse positively and expressly
we took up.
L. C.J. Did you not accuse sir George
Wakeraan by name, and that he accepted his
reward ?
Oatet, Yes, then I did accuse him by name.
X. C. X Why did you not accuse Mr. Cole-
man by name ?
- Otitis. For want of memory ; being disturb-
ed and wearied in sitting up two nights, I could
not give that good account of Mr. Coleman,
which I did afterwards, when I consulted my
Papers; and when I saw Mr. Coleman was*
secured, I had no need to give a farther ac-
count.
X. C. J. How long was it between the first
charging Mr. Coleman, and your acquainting
the parliament with it ?
Oates. From Monday the SOth of Septem-
ber, until the parliament sat.
X. C. X Mr. Coleman, will yon ask him any
thing?
Pris. Pray ask Mr. Oates, whether he *as
not as near to me as this gentleman is, because
vie spetiks of his eyes being bad?
Oates. I had tho disadvantage of a candle
upon my eyes; Mr. Coleman stood more in
the dark.
Pris. He names several times that he met
with me ; in this place and that place, a third
*nd fourth place about business.
Oates, He was altered much by his periwig
«n several meetings, and had several periwigs,
•and n periwig doth disguise a man very much ;
tat when I heard him speak, then I knew him
to be Mr. Coleman.
X. C. X Did you hear him speak ? How
were the questions asked? Were they thus?
Was that the person ? Or, how often had you
•een Mr. Coleman ?
Oatm. Whan the question was asked by my
lord chancellor, Mr. Coleman, when where you
last in France? He said, At such a time. Did
yott tee father La Chaise? He said he gave him
an accidental visit. My lord chancellor asked
trim whether or no be had a pass ? He said,
No. Then be told him, that was a fauh for
going ovttfthekiojptaa without epm. Have
you a kinsman whose name is Playford, at St.
Orners? He said he had one teo years old,
(who is in truth sixteen) Thai question I desired
might be asked. Then the king hade me go on.
X. C. X Did Hie king, or council, or lord
chancellor ask you whether you knew Mr.
Coleman, or no?
Oates* They did not ask me.
X. C. J. Mr. Oates, Answer the question
in short and without confounding it with length.
Were you demanded if you knew Mr. Coleman ?
Oates. Not to my knowledge.
X. C. X Did you ever see him, or how often ?
Pris. He said, he did not know me.
X. C. X" You seemed, when I asked you
before, to admit, as if you had been asked this
question, how often you had seen him, und gave
me no answer, because you were doubtful
whether it was the man, by reason of the in-
convenience of the light, and your bad sight.
Oates. I must leave it to the king what an-
swer I made Mr. Coleman; he wonders I
should give an account of so many intimacies,
when I said 1 did not know him at the council-
table.
Pris. It is very strange Mr. Oates should
swear now, that he was so well acquainted with
me, and had been so often in my company,
when upon his accusation at the council-table,
he said nothing of me more than the sending of
one letter, which he thought was my hand.
Oates. I did not say that.
Pris. And he did seem to saynhere, he
never saw me before in his life.
X. C. X Was he asked whether be was ac-
quainted with you ? (for those words are to the
same purpose.)
Pris. I cannot answer directly, I do not
say lie was asked, if he was acquainted with
me, but I say this, that he did declare he did
not know me!
X. C. J. Can you prove that?
Pris. I appeal to sir Tho. Dolman, who is
now in Court, and was then present at the
Council- table.
X. C. J. Sir Thomas, yon are not upon
your oath, but are to speak on the behalf of
the prisoner : What did he say ?
Sir Tho. Dolman. That he did not well
know him.
X. C. X Did he add, that he did not well
know hhn by the candle-light ? But Mr. Oates,
when you heard hit voice, you said yon knew
him ; why did you not come then, and say you
did well know him ?
Oates. Because I was not asked.
X. C.J.,, But, sir Thomas, did he say he did
not well know him after Mr. Coleman spake?
Was Mr. Coleman examined before Mr. Oates
spake?— Sir T. Dolman. Yes.
X. C. X Mr. Oates, you say yon were with
him at the* Savoy and Wild House, pray, sir
Thomas, did he say he did not know hm% or
had seen Mr, Coleman there ?
Sir T. Dolman. He did not know him at
he stood there.
X. C. X ' Knowing, or not knowing, is not
*]
STATE TRIALS, SO Charles II 1073.— Jot High Treason.
[*>
tW present question ; but did he make an an-
swer to the knowing or not knowing him ?
Just. Doffrtn. Did he say he did not well
know Mr. Coleman, or that he did not well
know that man ?
Sir T. Dolman. He said he bad no ac-
quaintance with that nao (to the- best of my
remembrance).
L, C. J. Sir Robert Southwell, you were
present at Mr. Oates bis examination before
the Council ; in what manner did he accuse
Mr. Coleman then?
Sir R. Southwell. The question is so parti-
cular, I cannot give the Court satisfaction ; but
other material things then said are now omitted
bj Mr. Oates ; for he did declare against sir
Geonse Wakeman, that 5,000/. was added, in
all 15,000/1, and that Mr. Coleman paid five
of the fifteen to sir George in hand.
L. C. J. This answers much of the objection
■poo him. The Court has asked Mr. Oates
bow be should come now to charge you with
all these matters of poisoning and killing the
kiag, and yet he mentioned yon so slightly at
the Council- tabic ; but it is said by sir Robert
Southwell he did charge you with 5,000/. (for
poisoning the king) to be added to the 10,000/.,
and be charged you expressly with it at the
Council- table.
Pris. The charge was so slight against me
by Mr. Oates, that the council were not of his
opinion : For the first order was to go to New-
gate, and sir R. Southwell came with directions
to the messenger not to execute the order. I
humbly ask whether it was a reasonable thing
to conceive that the council should extenuate
the punishment, if Mr. Oates came with such
an amazing account to the council.
Sir Jfc. South. Mr. Oates gave so large and
general an information to the council, that it
could not easily be fixed. Mr. Coleman came
voluntarily in upon Monday morning. The
warrant was sent out on Sunday night for Mr.
Coleman and his papers; His papers were
found and seized, but Mr. Coleman was not
found at that time nor all night, but came on
Monday morning voluntarily, and offered him-
self at sir Joseph Williamson's bouse, hearing
there was a warrant against him ; By reason
of so many prisoners that were then under
examination, he was not heard till the after-
noon, and then he did with great indignation
and contempt hear these vile things, at thinking
himself innocent.
Pris. U I thought myself guilty, I should
have charged myself: I hope his majesty, upon
what hath been said, will be so far satisfied as
to discharge me.
Sir R. South. Mr. Coleman then made so
good a discourse for himself, that though the
lords bad filled up a blank warrant to send him
to Newgate, that was respited, and he was
only committed to a messenger. I did say to
the messenger, Be very eivil to Mr. Coleman,
for things are under examination, but you must
leep barn safety. Seith the messenger, Pray
let me have a special warrant, that deth dis-
pense «ith the warrant J had to carry him to
Newgate, and such a warrant be had. The
king went away on Tuesday morning to New-
market, and appointed a particular committee
to examine the papers brought of Mr. Coleman
and others. His papers were found in a deal
box, and several of these papers and declara-
tions souuded so strange to the lords, that they
v\f re amased; and presently they signed a war-
rant for Mr. Coleman's going to Newgate.
L. C. J. Did Mr. Oates give a roaad charge
against Mr. Coleman? %
Sir R. South. He had a great deal to do,
he was to repeat in the afternoon on Sunday
when the king was present, all he had said to
the lords on Saturday. He did say of Mr.
Coleman, that he had corresponded very wick-
edly and basely with the French king's Coufessorf
and did believe if Mr. Coleman's papers were
searched, there would be found in them that
which would cost him his neck. And did de-
clare that the 15,000/. was accepted for the
murder of the king, and that. 5,000/. was actu-
ally paid by Mr. Coleman to sir George Wake*
man. But Mr. Oates at the same time did
also declare that he did not aee the money
paid, he did not see this particular action of sir
George Wakemaa, because at that time he had
the stone, and could not be present.
Oates. I was not present at that consult
where tlie 15,000/. was accepted, but I had an
account of it from those that were present;
L. C. J. It appears plainly by this testi-
mony, that he did charge you Mr. Coleman
home, that 15,000/. was to be paid for poison-
iug the king ; and that it was generally said
among them (though he did not see it paid)
that it came by your hands, viz. 5,000/. of it ;
which answers your objection as if he had not
charged you, when you see he did charge yon
home then for being one of the conspirators, in
having a hand in paying of money for poisoning
the king: he charges you now no otherwise
than in that manner : he doth not charge you
now as if there were new things started, but
with the very conspiracy of having a hand in
paying the money for murdering the king.
What consultation was. that vou had at the
Savoy, in the month of August?
Oale*. It was about the business of the four
Irish ruffians proposed to the consult.
The End of Mr. Oates's Examination.
Mr. Bedlotfs* Examination.
Sir Francis Winningioii, (Sol. Gen.) We
will call him to give an account what he knows
of the prisoner's being privy to the conspiracy
of murdering the king (particularly to that).
Mr. Bedlow, pray acquaint my lord and the
jury what you know, I desire to know parti*
cularly as it concerns Mr. Coleman, and no-
thing but Mr. Coleman.
»« II.IU
* See the Examinations of this witaees taken
before a Committee of the House of Lords, and
in his last sickness before Chief Justice North,
vol 6, p. 1403.
Si] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1678.— Trial of Edward Coleman, [J»
L. C. J. Mr. Attorney, pray keep to that
question close.
Att. Gen. I have two short questions to ask
bim : the first is, what he bath beeo or heard
touching any commission, to Mr. Coleman,
what sav you ?
Mr. ikdlow. In particular I know not of
any commission directed to Mr. Coleman, I
do not know any thing of it but what sir Henry
Tichbourn told mc, that Ire had a commission,
and he brought* commission for Mr. Coleman
and the rest of the lords, from the principal
Jesuits at Rome, by order of the pope.
Att: Gen. A commission for what ?
Bcdlow. To be principal secretary of state :
the title of it I do not know because I did not
see it, but to be principal secretary of state,
that was the effect.
Att. Gen. I desire to know what discourse
you had with Mr. Coleman about that design.
• Bedlam. If your lordship please, I shall be
short in the narrative.
L. C. J. Make use of your notes to help
your memory, but let not your testimony be
leerely to read them.
Bedlom. I carried over to M. La Chaise (the
French king's confessor) a large pacquet of
letters, April 1675, from Mr. Coleman, which
letters I saw Mr. Coleman deliver to Father
liarcourt, at his house in Duke-Street.
Council. And Harcourt gave them to you ?
Bed tow. Yes ; which letters were directed to
be delivered to M. La Chaise, and I did carry
them to La Chaise, and brought him an answer
from La Chnise, and other English monks at ■
Paris : I did ,uot understand what was in it,
because it was a language 1 do not well under-
stand ; it was about carrying on the Plot ; at
a consultation there were present two French
abbots and several English monks at Paris ;
what I heard them say, was about carrying on
the Plot to subvert the government of England,
to destroy the king aud the lords of the coun-
cil. The king was principally to be destroyed,
aud.the government subverted as well as the
Protestant religion.
Court. When was this ? when you were to
receive the answer?
Bedlom. It was upon the consultation : there
was a pacquet of Jetters from Mr. Coleman,
they did not know I understood French, or if
they did, they had tried me so long I believe
they would have trusted me.
L. C. J. The letter that La Chaise wrote, to
whom was it directed ? *
"Bedlam. It was directed to Mr. Coleman,
the pacquet was directed to Harcourt, and
within that La Chaise wrote an answer and
directed it to Mr. Coleman, particularly to
Mr. Coleman.
L. C. J. How do you know?
Bedltm. The Superscription was this [in
French, A M. Coleman]. To Mr. Coleman ;
with other letters directed to Father Harcourt.
X. C. J. He saith plainly the letter was
Tours. You gave Harcourt a pacquet of
letters to be delivered to La Chaise, liarcourt
3
delivered them to him, and he did carry them
to La Chaise, aud heard them talk about this
Plot : that La Chaise wrote a letter to you (par-
ticularly by oame) inclosed in a letter to liar-
court ; that answer he brought back.
Recorder. Do you know any thing concern-
ing any money Mr. Coleman said lie had re-
ceived ? the sums, and for what ?
Bcdlow. It was to carry on the design to
subvert the government of England, to free
Eugland from damnation and ignorance, and
free all Catholics /rom hard tyranny and op-
pression of Heretics.
Att. Gen. What words did you hear Mr.
Coleman express, what he would do lor the
Catholic cause?
Bcdlow. May J4, or 25, 1677, 1 was at Mr.
Coleman's with Mr. Harcourt, and received
another pacquet from Mr. Harcourt, and he
had it from Mr. Coleman.
L. C. /. You say, Mr. Coleman did give
this pacquet to Harcourt ?
Bcdlow. Yes, and Harcourt delivered it to
me to carry it to Paris to the English monks.
I was to go by Doway to see if they were not
gone to Paris before me.
L. C. J. And what did they say- when you
delivered the letters to the English monks ?
Bcdlow. They told me how much reward I
deserved from the pope and the church, both
here and in. the world to come. I overtook
three, and that night I went to Paris with
them ; aod upon the consultation, 1677, 1 be-
lieve they sent the bishop of Tomes the sub-
stance of those letters ; and not having a final
Answer what assistance the Catholic party in
England might expect from them, they were
resolved to neglect their design no longer thaa
that summer, having ail things ready to begin
in England.
Recorder. What did you bear Mr. Cole-
man say?
Bcdlow. That he would adventure any thing
to bring in the Popish religion : afier tue con-
sultation, I delivered the letters to La Faire,
and be brought them to Harcourt, he delivered
the pacquet of letters to Harcourt, who was not
well, but yet went and delivered them to Mr.
Coleman, and I went as far as Mr. Coleman's
house, but did not go in, but stayed over the
way ; but Harcourt went in, and after he had
spoke with Mr. Coleman, he gave me a beck
to come to bim ; and I heard Mr. Coleman
say, If be had a hundred lives, and a sea of
blood to carry on the cause, he would spend it
all to further the cause of the Church of Rome,
aod to establish the Church of Rome in Eng-
land : and if there was an hundred Heretical
kings to he deposed, he would see them all de-
stroyed.
£. C. J. Where was this ?
Bcdlow. At his own house.
L.C.J. Where?
Bedim*. Behind Westminster Abbey.
X. C. /. In what room ?
Bedlam. At the foot of the stair-case*
L. C. /. Where were you then ?
«1
STATE TWAiS, SO Chaiu.es I(. 1078.-: far High Tmsan.
[*>
tto present question ; but did be make an an-
sae* to rbe knowing or not knowing him?
Just. Dotyn. Did he say he did not well
know Mr. Coleman, or that he did not well
know that man ?
Sir T. Dolman. He said he bad no ac-
quaintance with that nan (to the beat of my
remembrance).
L C. J. Sir Robert Southwell, you were
present at Mr. Oates hit examination before
the Council; in what manner did he accuse
Mr. Coleman then?
Sir R. Southwell. The question is so parti-
* eolar, I cannot gire the Court satisfaction ; but
other material things then said are now omitted
bj Mr. Oates ; for he did declare against sir
George Wakeman, that 5,000/. was added, in
all 15,000/., and that Mr. Coleman paid five
of i he fifteen to sir George in hand.
L C. J. This answers much of the objection
■poo him. The Court has asked Mr. Oates
bow be should come now to charge you with
ail these matters of poisoning and killing the
king, and yet be mentioned you so slightly at
the Council-table ; but it is said by sir Robert
Southwell he did charge you with 5,000/. (for
poisoning tlte king) to be added to the 10,000/.,
sod be charged you expressly with it at the
' Council- table.
! Pris. The charge was so slight against me
by Mr. Oates, that the council were not of his
opinion : For the first order was to go to New-
gate, and sir R. Southwell came with directions
to the messenger not to execute the order. I
humbly ask whether it was a reasonable thing
to conceive that the council should extenuate
the punishment, if Mr. Oates came with such
so amtsug account to the council.
Sir R, South. Mr. Oates gave so large and
general an information to the council, that it
tooid not easily be fixed. Mr. Coleman came
Yolontarily in upon Monday morning. The
warrant was sent out on Sunday night for Mr.
CoJenaa and his papers; His papers were
found and seized, but Mr. Coleman was not
found at that time nor all night, but came on
MoodBj morning voluntarily, and offered him-
self at sir Joseph Williamson's bouse, hearing
there was a warrant against him : By reason
of so many prisoners that were then under
examination, he was not heard till the after-
noon, and then be did with great indignation
sad contempt hear these vile Uungs, as thinking
bisnself innocent.
Pris. If I thought myself guilty, I should
bswj charged myself: I hope his majesty, upon
•hat hath been said, will be so far satisfied as
to discharge me,
Sir R. South. Mr. Coleman then made so
Ka discourse for himself, that though the
had filled op a blank warrant to send him
to Newgate, that was respited, and he was
oaly committed to a messenger. I did say to
the messenger, Be very eivil to Mr. Coleman,
for things are under examination, but you must
leep bssm safely. Saith the messenger, Pray
let me hate a special variant, that deth dis-
pense with the warrant I had to carry him to
Newgate, and such a warrant he had. The
king went away on Tuesday morning to New-
market, aud appointed a particular committee
to examine the papers brought of Mr. Coleman
aud others. His papers were found in a deal
box, and several of these papers and declara-
tions souuded so strange to the lords, that they
wtre ainased; and presently they signed a war-
rant for Mr. Coleman's going to Newgate.
L. C. J. Did Mr. Oates give a round charge
against Mr. Coleman? *
Sir R. South, lie had a great deal to do,
he was to repeat in tlie afternoon on Sunday
when the king was present, all he had said to
the lords on Saturday. He did say of Mr.
Coleman, that he bad corresponded very wick-
edly and basely with the French king's confessor,
and did believe if Mr. Coleman's papers were
searched, there would be found in them that
which would cost him his neck. And did de-
clare that the 15,000/. was accepted for the
murder of the king, and that -5,000/. was actu-
ally paid by Mr. Coleman to sir George Wake-
man. Hut Mr. Oates at the same time did
also declare that he did not see the money
paid, he did not see this particular action of air
George Wakemaa, because at that time he had
the stone, and could not be present.
Gate*. I was not present at that consult
where the 15,000/. was accepted, but I had an
account of it from those that were present
X. C. J. It appears plainly by this testi-
mony, thai be did charge you Mr. Coleman
liome, that 15,000/. was to be paid for poison-
ing the king ; and that it was generally said
among them (though he did not see it paid)
that it came by your hands, via. 5,000/. of it ;
which answers your objection as if he had not
charged you, when you see he did charge yon
home then for being one of the conspirators, m
having a hand in paying of money for poisoning
the king: he charges you now no otherwise
than in that manner : he doth not charge you
now us if there were new things started, but
with the very conspiracy of having a hand in
paying the money for murdering the king.
What consultation was. that you had at the
Savoy, in the month of August?
Oa(e$. It was about the business of the four
Irish ruffians proposed to the consult.
The End of Mr. Oates's Examination.
Mr. Bedlam's* Examination.
Sir Francis Wianingtoit, (Sol. Gen.) We
will call him to give an account what he knows
of the prisoner's beiug privy to the conspiracy
of murdering the king (particularly to that).
Mr. Bedlow, pray acquaint my lord and the
jury what you know, I desire to know parti-
cularly as it concerns Mr. Coleman, and no-
thing but Mr. Coleman.
* See the Examinations of this witness taken
before a Committee of the House of Lords, and
in his last sickness before Chief Justice North,
voL 6, p. 1403.
MB
35J STATE TRIALS, tfO Charles II.
Att. Xren. Inform the court whether he
kept any book, to make entry of letters he sent
or received ? .
Boatman. Yes, there was a large book my
master did enter his letters in, and bis news.
Att. Gen. What is become of that book i
Boatman, I know not.
Att. Gen. When did you see that book
last, upon your oath ?
Boatman. On Saturday.
Att. Gen. How long before he was sent to
pri&on ?
Boatman. Two days, because the «eit day
was Sunday, when he di4 not make use of it :
On Monday my master was in prison, and I
did not mind the book.
L. C. J. Were there any entries of letters
in that book within two years last past r*
Boatman. I cannot- be positive.
Ait. Gen. Did he not usually write and re-
ceive letters from beyond sea? Till that time
had be not negociation as usually ?
Boatman. He had usually news every post
from beyond the seas.
Pro. There is letters from the Hague,
Brussels, France and Rome ; they are all with
the council, which were all the letters I re-
ceived. '
Att. Gen. We hare another witness : Cat-
taway, are you acquainted with Mr. Coleman's
hand writing ? Do you believe it to be his hand
writing ?
Witneu. I believe it is, they are his hand-
writing.
Att. Gen. It will appear, if there were no
no other proof in this cause, his own papers
are as good as an hundred witnesses to con-
demn him : Therefore I desire to prove them
fully by his own confession.
Sir Phil. Lloyd, a witness. These are the
papers I received from sir Thomas Dolman ;
I found thorn (as he saith) in a deal box;.
Among his papers I found this letter. . Mr.
Coleman hath owned tUia was his hand- writing ;
it is all one letter.
Alt. Gen. It is all the same hand, and he
acknowledged it to be his.
Mr. Recorder. I desire Mr. Astrey may read
it so that the Jury may bear it.
Mr. Astrey, Clerk of the Crown, reads toe
letter.
The 99th' of September (1675.) It is sub-
scribed thus; " Your most humble and most
obedient Servant," but no name.
Mr. Coleman's Long Letter.
" Since Father St. German has been so
kind to me, as to recommend me to your re-
verence so advantageously, as to, encourage
you to accept of my correspondency ; I, will
own to him that be has dune me a favour without
consult! ok me, greater than I could have been
capable of if he had advised with me ; because
I could not then have had the confidence
to have permitted him to ask it on my be-
lialf. And I am so sensible of the honour
you are pleased to do me, that though I cannot
7
1078. — Ttial of Edward Coleman,
186
deserve it, yet to shew at least- the sense I
have of it, I will deal its freely and. openly with
you this first time, as if I had had the honour
of your acquaintance all my life; and shall
make no apology for so doing, but only tell
you that I know your character perfectly well,
though I am not so happy as to kuow your per-
son; and that I have an opportunity of putting
this letter iota the hands of Father St. Ger-
man's nephew (for whose integrity and pru-
dence he has undertaken) without any sort of
hazard.
" In order then, sir, to the jilaionessl pro-
fess, I will tell you what «4*jus formerly passed
between your reverence's predecessor, Father
Ferrier, and myself. About three years ago,
when the king ray master pent a troop of horse*
guards into his most Christian .majesty's ser-
vice, under the command of my lord Dura**,
he sent with it an officer called sir William
Throckmorton, with whom I had a particular
intimacy, and who bad then very newly em-
braced the Catholic religion : to him did 1 con-
stantly write, and by him address myself to
Father Ferrier. The first thing of great im-
portance I presumed to offer him (not to
trouble you with lesser matters, or what passed
here before, and immediately after the fatal
revocation of the king's declaration for liberty
of conscience, to which we owe all our miseries
and hazards,) was in July, August, and Sep-
tember 1673, when I constantly inculcated the*
great danger Catholic religion and his most
Christian majesty's interest would be in a tour
next sessions of parliament, which was then to
be in October following ; at which I plain J y
foresaw that the king my master would be
forced to something in, prejudice to his alliance
with France, which I saw so evidently and
particularly that we should make peace with
Holland ; that £ urged all the arguments I
could, which to me were demonstrations, to
convince your court of {hat mischief; and
pressed all I could to persuade his most Chris-
tian majesty to use his utmost endeavour to pre-
vent that session of our parliament, and proposed
expedients how to doit: but I was answered so
often and so positively, that his most Christian
majesty was so well assured by his ambassador
here, our ambassador there., the lord Arlington*
and even the kiug himself; that he had no suck
apprehensions at ail, but was fully satisfied of
the contrary, and looked upon what I offered
as a very zealous mistake, that I was fosced to
give over arguing, though not believing as I
did ; but conndeutly appealed to time and suc-
cess to prove who took their measures rightest.
When it happened what I foresaw came to
pass, the good Father was a little surprised, to
see all the great. men mistaken, and a little one
in the riaht; .and was pleased by sir William
Throckmorton to desire the continuance of
' my correspondence, which I was mighty witl-
ing to comply with, knowing the interest of our
king, and in a more particular manner of my
more immediate master the duke, and bis moat
Christian majesty, to be so inseparably unitea*
3T]
STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1678.— /or High Treason.
[»
that it was impossible to divide them, without
dauojing them all : upon this I shewed that
ov parliament io the circumstances it was
nonaged, by the timorous counsels of our mi-
nisters, who then governed, would never be
ssefnl either to England, France, or Catholic
itiigiof), but that we should as certainly be
forced from our neutrality at their next meet-
ing, as we bad been from our active alliance
ftitli France the last year : that a pence in the
circumstances we were in, was much more to
be desired than the continuance oi' the war ;
and tint the dissolution of our parliament
W9»W certainly procure a pe*ce ; for that the
confederate! -did more depend upon the power
they had in our parliament, than upon any
thing else in the world ; and were more en-
counted from them to the continuing of the
war; so chat if they were dissolved, their mea-
sures would be all broken, and they conse-
quent!? in a manner necessitated to a peace.
"The good rather minding this discourse iome-
%hat more than the court of France thought fit
to do my former, urged it so home to the king,
that his majesty was pleased to give him orders
to signify to his royal highness my master,
that his majesty was fully satisfied of his royal
aigimess'sgood intention towards him, and that
he esteemed both theft interests but as one
tnd the same; that my lord Arliugton and
at parliament were both to be looked upon as
very onusefut /o their interest : That if his royal
highness would endeavour to dissolve this par-
liament, his most christian majesty would as-
sist him with his power and purse, to have
anew one as should he for their purpose. This,
tad a {rreat many more expressions of kindness
sad confidence, Father Ferrier was pleased to
comtDooicate to sir William Throckmorton, and
oovfnanded him to send them to his royal
highness, and withal to beg his royal
jugnoess to propose to his most christian ma-
jesty, what be thought necessary for his own
concern, and the advantage of religion, and his
majesty would certainly do all he could to ad-
nnce both or either of them. This sir William
Throckmorton sent to me by an express, who
left Paris the 2d of June 1674, Stiio novo: 1 no
sooner had it, but I communicated it to bis
Bt H. To which his R. H. commanded me
to answer, as I did on the 29th of the same
Booth : That his fi. H. was very sensible of
as most christian majesty's friendship, and that
nevoold labour to cultivate it with all the good
offices be was capable of doing for his majesty ;
tatt he was fully convinced that their interests
n«e both one, that my lord Arlington and the
parliament were not only unuseful, but very
dsngerous both to England and France : that
therefore it was necessary that they should do
*U theycould to dissolve it. And that his royal
kighneWa opinion was, that if bis most christian
majesty would write bit thought* freely to the
«ng of Eogland upon this subject and make
aSe same proffer to his majesty of bis purse to
fmolre this parliament, which, he had made to
us rojal highness to call another, he did believe
it very possible for him to succeed, with the as-
sistance we should be able to give him here ;
and that if this parliament were dissolved,
there would be no great dilticulty of getting a
new one, which would be more useful : the con-
stitutions of our parliaments being such, that a
new one can never hurt the crown, nor an old
one do it good.
44 His royal highness being pleased to own
these propositions, which were but only ge-
neral, I thought it reasonable to be more par*
(iculnr, and come closer to the point, that we
might go the faster about the work, and come
to some resolution before the time was too far
spent.
" I laid this for my maxim : the dissolution
of our parliament will certainly procure a peace;
which proposition was granted by. every body I
conversed withal, even by M. Rouvigny him-
self, with whom I took liberty of discoursing so
far, but durst not say any thing of the intelli-
gence I had with father Fenier. Next ; that
a sum of money certain, would certainly pro-
cure a dissolution ; this some doubted, but I
am sure I never did ; for I knew perfectly well
that the king had frequent disputes with him-
self at that time, whether he should dissolve or
continue them ; and he several times declared
that the arguments were so strong on both sides,
that he could not tell to which to incline, but
was carried at last to the continuance of i hem
by this one argument ; if I try them once mure,
they may possibly give me money ; if they do
I have gaiued my point, if tliey do not, 1 can
dissolve them then, and be where I am now : so
that I have a possibility at least of getting mo-
ney for their continuance, against nothing on
the other side : but' if we could have turned
this argument, and said ; Sir, their dissolution
will certainly procure you money, when you
hare only a bare possibility of getting any by
their continuance, and have shewn Iujw far that
bare possibility was from being a fouitdntton to
build any reasonable hope upon, which I am
sure his majesty was sensible of: and how
much 300,000/. sterling certain (which was the
sum we proposed) wa» better than a bare pos-
sibility (without any reason to hope that that
could ever be compassed) of having half no.
much more (which watthe most he designed to
ask,) upon some vile dishonourable terms, a«4
a thousand other hazards, which he had great
reason to be afraid of: if, I say, we had power
to have argued this,, I am ino»t confine ntly as-
sured we could have compassed it, for Logic
in our court built upon moirey, has more pow-
erful charm** than any other sort of reasoning.
But to secure bi» most christian majesty from
any hazard as to that p<»n»t, 1 proposed hi* ma-
jesty should offer that sum upoii that condition;
and if the condition were not performed, tin? mo-
ney should. never be due; if it were and tnat a
ptace would certainly follow thereupon, (which
nobody doubted) his maj» sty would gJ«in hi* Mids
and save all the vn«texpeocesof the nest cam*
paign, by which he could not hope to oerei h«s
condition, or put hiifisetl into more advantageous
90} STATE TRIALS, 30 Cham-bs IL 1676. — Trial ofEdwmrd CoUtmm, [W
circumstance* of Treaty than be was then in ; hot
mig bt very probably be in a much worse, con-
sidering the mighty opposition be was like to
meet with, and the uncertain chances of war.
Bat admitting that his majesty could by his
treat strength and conduct maintain himself
in as good a condition to treat the next year as
he was then in ; (which was as much as could
then reasonably be hoped for) he should have
saved by thib proposal as much as all the men
be must needs lo»e, and all the charges he
should be at in a year, would be valued to
amount to more than 300.000i. sterling, and so
much more in case his condition should decay,
as it should be worse than it was when this
was made ; and the condition of his royal high-
ness and of the Catholic religion here (which
depends very much upon the success of bis
most christian majesty,) delivered from a great
many frights and real ^azartts. F. Ferrier
seemed to be very sensible of the benefit all
parties would gain by this proposal ; but yet it
was unfortunately delayed by an unhappy and
tedious fit of sickness, which kept him so long
from the king in the FrancbeCompte, and
made him so unable to wait on mVtnajesty
after be did return to Pahs : but so soon as he
oouid compass it, he was pleased to acquaint
his majesty with it, and wrote to the Duke him-
self; and dad me the honour to write unto me
also on the 15th of September 1674, and sent
his letter by sir William Throckmorton, who
came upon express that errand *. in these let-
ters he gave his royal highness fresh assurance of
his most christian majesty's friendship, and of
his zeal and readiness to comply with every
thing his royal highness had, or should think fit
to propose in favour of religion, or the business
of money: and that he had commanded M.
Houvigny as to the latter, to treat and deal
with his royal highness and to receive and ob-
serve his orders and directions; hut desired
that he might not at all be concerned as to the
farmer, but that his royal (ugliness would cause
what proposition he should think fit to be made
shout religion, to be offered either to Father
Ferrier, or Mi Pompone.
" These letters came to us about the middle
of September, and his royal highness espected
daily wheo M. Rouvigny should* speak to bim
shoot the subject of that letter ; but he took
no notice at all of anv thing till the 99th of
September, the evening before the king and
dose, went to Newmarket for a fortnight, and
then only said, that be had commands from
his master to give his royal highness the most
firm assurance of his friendship imaginable, or
tamer hing to that purpose, making his royal
highness a general compliment, but made no
mention of any particular orders relating to
Father Ferrier*8 letter. The duke wondering
at this proceeding, and beinit obliged to stay a
good part of October at Newmarket ; and soon
aster his coming back, hearing of the death of
Father Ferrier, he gave over all further prose-
csting of the former project. But I believe I
•ssv M. Rsavignye policy all along, whs was
willing to save his master's money* upon
suranoe that we would do all we coeld to stave-
off the parliament for our own takes, that we
would struggle as hard without mooey as with -
it; and we having by that lime, upon our*
own interest, prevailed to get the parliament'
prorogued to the 13th of April, he thought that-
prorogation being to a day so high in the-
spring, would put the confederates so far be-
yond their measures, as that it might procure a
peace, and be as useful to France as a disso-
lution *. upan these reasons I suppose be went;
I bad several discourses with ntm ; and dsnV
open myself fo far to bim as to say, 1 could
wish liis master would give us leave to offer to
our master 300,000/. for the dissolution of the
parliament; and shewed bim that a peace-
would most certainly follow a dissolution
(which be agreed with me in,) and that we de-
sired not the money from his master to excite*
our wills, or to make us more industrious to
use our utmost powers to procure a dissolution ,
bat to strenghten our power and credit with
the king, and to render us more capable to
succeed with his majesty, as most certainly we*
should have done, had we been fortified with
such an argument.
" To this purpose I pressed M. Pompone-
frequently hy sir William Throckmnrtcn, w bo-
returned hence again into France on the 10th-
of November, the day our parliament- should^
have met, but was prorogued. tM, Pompone/
(as I was informed by sir William) did teen* to
approve the thing ; but yet bad two objections^
against it: First, that the sum we proposed,
was great ;, end could be very ill spared in the*
circumstances his most Christian majesty was*
in. To wLicli we answered, that if bv his ex-
pending that sum, he could procure a diseolu*
tion of our parliament, and thereby a peace,
winch every body agreeed would necessarily-
follow ; his most Christian majesty would gain
his ends, and save five or ten times a greater
sum, and so be a good husband by rmvexpence ;
and if we did not procure a dissolution, ho
should not be at that es pence at all ; for that
we desired him only to promise upon that
condition, which we were content to be ob-
liged to perform first. The second Objection
was. The duke did not move, nor appear in it
himself. To that we answered, That he did'
not indeed to M. Pompone, because he bad
found so ill an effect of the neeociation with
Father Ferrier, when it came into M. Ron-
vieoy s hands ; but that be hud concerned htm*
self in it to Father Ferrier.
" Yet r continued to prosecute and pre*?
the dissolution of the par hart* en t, detesting all
prorogations as only so much* lo*s of time, and
a means of strengthening all those who depend
up«>n it in opposition to the crown, the interest
of France and Catholic religion, in the opinion
they had taken. That our king durst not pert
with bis parliament; apprehending that ano-
ther would be much worse. Second rr, That
he could not livelong without a parrmment,*
therefore they aunt suddenly meet; and the
*\
STATETTretlAIA 30 Champs II HUB*—/* High TVrtubm
[4#
loafer he kept them ©»€£ tbe greater his neces-
sity wvaW grow » and consequently their
power 10 m»ke Him do what they listed, would*
increase accordingly '- trod" therefore, if they
awM but maintain themselves a while, the
day would certainty come in a short time, in
wtieh they thould be oble to work" their wills.
9och discourses as these Kept the Confederates
and our Male- contents in heart, and made them
•either on the war in spite of all our proroga-
tion*: therefore I pressed (as I hare said) a
dMsolbrinn until 'February last, when our cir-
cumstances were so totally changed, that we
were forced to change our counsels too; and he
as orach for the parliament's sitting, as we
were before against it.
** Our Change was thus : Before that' time,
the lord Arlington was the only minister in
credit, who thought himself out of aft danger
of the parliament ; he having been accused be-
fore them and justified, and therefore was
zealous for their sitting; and to increase his
reputation with ihem, and to become a perfect
favourite, he sets himself all he coord to perse-
cute the Catholic religion, and to oppose tbe
■Reach : To shew his zeal against the first, he
irrrved some old dormant Orders for prohibit-
ing Roman Catholics to appear before the
ktnz, and put th'em in execution at his first
coming into Ids office of Lord Cham her Iain :
Abd to make snre work with the second, as he
thought ; prevailed with the king to give him
and the eail of Ossory, (who married two sis-
ters of Mytie Hfcere Odvke's) leave to go over
a>ro Holland with the said Heere, to make a
yisi?, as they pretended, to their relations; hut
indeed, and in troth, to propose the lady Mary,
eldest daughter of his royal highness, as a match
foe the prince of Orange ; not only wirhout the
consent, hut against the good liking of his
royal h\«hness : Insomuch, that the lord Ar-,
lingtotrs creatures were forced to excuse
him, with a distinction, thaf the said lady
was not to he looked upon as the duke's daugh-
ter, hot as the king's, and a child of the state
was, and so the duke's consent not much to be
considered in the diswsal of her, but only the-
interest of state. By this he intended to ren-
der himself the darling of parliament and Pro-
tcscmnts, who looked upon themselves as se-
ared in their religion by such an alliance, and
designed further to draw us into a close con-
jwaerjou with Holland, and the enemies of
France. The'lord Arlington set forth upon this
errand the lOlh of* November. 1674, and re-
*Or»ied not till the 6th of'Jannarv following?
XTdrntg hrs absence, the Lord Treasurer, Lord
Keeper, and the duke of Lauderdale, who were
the only mini»t*»r* of any considerable credit
with the king, and who all pretended to be en-
tirely omted to the Duke, declaimed loudly
aad with great violence, against the said lord,
•od bis actions in Holland ; and did hope, in
n% absence, to bare totally supplanted him,
**«* to have rooted bim out of the king's fa-
lOtfr; and after that, thought they might easily
«0ogh^}ave ddoli with' tbe parliament. But
none of them had courage enough td speak
against the' parliament, till they could get rid
of him*; for fear they should not succeed, and'1
that the parliament would1 sit in spite of tbetn,
and come to hear that they bad used their em '
deavoors against it : which would have been
so unpardonable a* crime with our Omnipotent/'
Parliament, that no power could have been
able- to have saved tbem from punishment: *
But they finding at bis return, that they could'
not prevail agatust Irim by such means and arts' '
as they had then tried, resolved upon near
enamels; which were to outrun hid* in hrs
own course ; which accordingly they under-
took, and became as fierce apostles, and as'
zealous for Protestant religion, and against
Popery, as ever my lord Arlington had been
before them ; and' in pursuance thereof, per-
suaded the king to issue out those severe Or-
ders and Proclamations against* Catholics, '
wrfrch came out in February last; by which
they did as much as iir them lay to, extirpate"
all Catholics, and Catholic religion; out of the*
kingdom ; which counsels were in my poor opi-
nion so detestable, being levelled, as they must1
needs be, so directly agaimt the D6ke, by peo-
ple which lie had Advanced, and who had pro*
fessed so much doty and service to him, thajtf
we were put upon new thoughts* how to save*
bry royal highness now from the deceits aud
snares of those men upon whom we formerly
depended. We saw well ertoujjli,. that their
design "*ns to nrrake themselves -as gratefal as'
they could* to the parliament; if it must sit;,
they thinking nothing so acceptable to tbem,
as the persecution of Popery-; and vet they
were so obnoxious to the parliament's displea-
sure in general, that they wo»old have ft>eea
glad of any expedient to hare kept it oft*;,
though they durst not engage 'against it openly
themselves, but thought this device of theirs*
tmiaht serte for their purposes, hoping the
Duke would be so alarmed at' their proceed-
ings, and by his being left bjr every body, that .
he would be much more afraid of the parlia-
ment than ever, and ' would use bis utmost
power to prevent its sitting* which they
doubted not but he' would endeavour; and
,they were ready enough to work- underhand too
for him (for their own sakes; not his), in order'
■thereunto; but durst not appear openly ; and
to encourage the Duke the more to endeavour
the dissolution of the parliament, their crea-
tures used to say up and d(Wn, That this rigor
'against the Catholics was in favour of thav
Duke, and to make a dissolution of the parlia-
ment more easy, (which they knew he coveted)
by obviating one great ' objection which was
commonly made against it, wh.\ch was, That if
the parliament should be dissolved, it would bo
said, That it was done in favourr of Popery;,
which clamour they had prevented beforehand'
by the severity they had used agai.*ist it. .
! " As soon as we saw these tricks put upoa
jii9 we plainly saw, what men we toad to deal'
withal, and what we had to trust to, if wo
.were wholly at their mercy : But yet durst nofc
43] STATE TRIADS, 30 Charles II. 161$.— Trial of Edxoard Coleman, [44
seem so dissatisfied as we really were, but.
rather magnified the contrivance, as a device
of great cunning and skill : All this we did
purely to hold them in a belief, that we would
endeavour to dissolve the parliament, and that
they might rely upon his royal highness for that
.which we knew tbey longed for, and were
afraid they might do some other way, if they
discovered that we were resolved we would not :
At length when we saw the sessions secured, we
declared, that we were for the parliament's
meeting ; as indeed we were, from the moment
we saw ourselves handled by all the king's
ministers at such a rate that we had reason to
believe they would sacrifice France, religion,
and his royal highness too, to their own interest,
if occasion served ; and that they w ere led to
believe, that that was the only way they had to
save themselves at that time : For we saw no
expedient fit to stop them in their career of
persecution, and those other destructive coun-
sels, but the parliament ; which had set itself
a long time to dislike every thing the ministers
had done, and had appeared violently against
popery, whilst the court seemed to favour it ;
and therefore we were confident, that the mi-
nisters having turned their faces, the parliament
would do so too, and still be against them ; and
be,as little for persecution then, as they had been
for popery before. This I undertook to manage
for the Duke and the king of France's interest;
and assured M. Rouvigny, which I am sure he
will testify, if occasion serves, that jhar sessions
should do neither of them any hurt ; for that
I was sure I had power enough to prevent mis-
chief, though I durst not engage for any good
tbey would do; because I had but very few
assistances to carry on the work, and wanted
those' helps which others had, of making friends :
The Dutch and Spaniard spared no pains or
expence of money to animate as many as they
could against France ; our Lord Treasurer,
Lord Keeper, all the bishops, and such as
called themselves Old Cavaliers, (who were all
then as one man) were not less industrious
against popery, ana had the purse at their girdle
too ; which is an excellent instrument to gain
friends with ; and all united against the Duke,
as patron both of France and catholic religion.
To deal with all this force, we had no money,
but what came from a few private bands ; and
those so mean ones too, that I dare venture to
say, that I spent more my particular self out of
my own fortune, and upon my own single
credit, than all the whole body of catholics in
England besides ; which was so inconsiderable,
in comparison of what our adversaries com-
manded, and we verily believe did bestow in
making their party, that it is not worth men-
tioning : Yet notwithstanding all this, we saw
that by the h?lp of the Nonconformists, as
Presbyterians, Iudependants, and other sects,
(who were a<j much afraid of persecution as
ourselves) and of the enemies of the ministers,
a&d particularly of the Treasurer ; who by
that time had supplanted the earl of Arlington,
and was grown sole manager of all affairs him-
self, we should be very able to prevent what
they designed agaiiist us, and so render the
sessions ineffectual to their ends, though we
might not be able to compass our own ; which
were, to make some brisk step in favour of his
royal highness, to shew the king, that his ma-
jesty's affairs in parliament were not obstructed,
by reason of any aver- ion they had to his royal
highness's person, or apprehensions they had
of him, or his religion ; but from faction and
ambition in some, and from a real dissatisfac-
tion in others, that ue have not had buch fruits
and good effects of those great sums of money
which hare been formerly given, as was expect-
ed. If we could then have made hut one such
step, the king would certainly have restored
his royal highness to all his commissions ;
upon which he would have been much greater
than ever yet he was in his whole life, or could
probably ever have been by any other course
in the world, than what he had taken of be-
coming catholic, &c. And we were so very
near gaining this point, that I did humbly beg
his royal highness to give me leave to put the
parliament upon making an Address to the
king, that his majesty would be pleased to put
the fleet into the hands of his royal highness,
as the only person likely to have a good account
of so important a charge as that was to the
kingdom ; and shewed his royal highness such,
reasons to persuade him that we could carry it,
that he agreed iviib roe in it, that he believed we
could. Yet others telling him how great a
damage it would be to him, if he should miss
in such an undertaking (which for my part I
could not then see, nor do I yet)," he was pre-
vailed upon not to venture, though he was per-
suaded he could carry it. I did communicate
this design of mine to M. Rouvigny, who agreed
with me, that it would be the greatest advantage
imaginable to his master, to have the Duke's
power and credit so far advanced as this would
certainly do, if we could compass it : I shewed
him all the difficulty we were like to meet with,
and what helps we should have ; but that we
should want one very material one, money, to
carry on tbe work as we ought ; and therefore
I do confess, I did shamefully beg his master's
help, and would willingly have been in ever*
lasting disgrace with all the world, if I had uot
with that assistance of 20,000/. sterling, which
perhaps is not tbe tenth part of what was spent
on the other side, made it evident to tbe Duke,
that he could not have missed it. M. Rou*
vigny used to tell me, That if he could be sure
of succeeding in that design, his master would
give a very much larger sum, but that he was
not in a condition to throw away money upon
uncertainties. I answered, That nothing of
that nature could be so infallibly sure, as not
to be subject to some possibilities of failing ;
but that I durst venture to undertake to make
it evident, that there was as great an assurance
of succeeding in it, as any husbandman can
have of a crop in harvest who sows his ground,
in its due seasoo ; and yet it would be counted a.
very imprudent piece of wariness in any body,
45]
STATE TRIALS, 30Charlb* II. 1678— /or High Treaton.
[46
to scrapie Che venturing of so ranch seed in its
proper time, because it is possible it may be
totally lost; and no benefit of it found in har-
vest : he that minds the winds and the rains at
that rate, shall neither sow nor reap* I take
oar case to be much the same as it was the last
sessions : If we can advance the Duke's inte-
rest one step forward, we shall put him oat of
the reach of chance for ever ; for he makes
such a figure already, that cautious men
do not care to act against him, nor always with-
out him, because they do not see that he is
much outpowered by his enemies; yet is he not
at such a pitch, as to be quite out of danger, or
free from opposition : But if he could gain any
considerable new addition of power, all would
come over to him as the only steady center of
oar government, and nobody would contend
with hhn farther. Then would catholics be
at rest, and his most Christian majesty's inte-
rest secured with as in England beyond all ap-
prehensions whatsoever.
" In order to this* we have two great Designs
to attempt this nest sessions. First, tWt which
we were about before, viz. To put the parlia-
ment upon making it their humble request to
the king, that the Fleet may be put into his
royal bigbuess's care. Secondly, to get an Act
for general Liberty of Conscience. I f we carry
these two, or either of them, we shall in effect
do what we list afterwards; and truly, we think
we do not undertake these great points very un-
reasonably, but that we have good cards for our
game ; not bat that we expect great opposition,
and have -great reason to beg all the assistance ,
we can possibly get ; and therefore, if his most
Christian majesty would stand by us a. Ihtle in
this conjuncture, and help us with such a- sum
as 20,000/. sterling (which is no very great mat-
ter to venture npon such an undertaking as this),
I would be content to be sacrificed to the ut-
most malice of my enemies, if I did not succeed.
I have proposed this several times to M. Rou-
vigny, who seemed always of my opinion ; and
has often told me, that he has writ into France
upon this subject, and has desired me to do the
fake: bet I know no.t whether he will be as zea-
lous in that point <fs a Catholic would be ; be-
cause our prevailing in these things would give
the greatest blow to the Protestant religion
here, that ever it received since its birth ; which
perhaps" he would not be very glad to see; espe-
cially when he believes there is another way of
doing his master's business well enough without
k; which is by a dissolution of the parliament;
upon which I know he mightily depends, and
concludes, tbat if that come to be dissolved, it
will be as much as he needs care for ; proceed -
hit perhaps upon the same manner of discourse
which we had this time 12 months. But with
submission to bis better judgment, I do think
that oar case is extremely much altered to what
k was, in relation to a dissolution ; for then the
body of oor governine ministers (all but the earl
at Arlington) were entirely united to the duke ;
aad woatd have governed his way, if they had
been free from all fear and controul, as they
had been, if, the parliament had been removed*
But they having siuce tbat time engaged in
quite different counsels, and .embarked them*
selves and interests upon other bottoms, having
declared themselves against popery, &c. To
dissolve the parliament simply, and without any
other step made, will be to leave them to go-
vern what way they list, which we have reason
to suspect will be to the prejudice of Franca
and Catholic religion. And their late declarsv*
tions and actions nave demonstrated to us^ tbat
they take that for the most popular way for
themselves, and likeliest to keep them in abso-
lute power ; whereas, if the duke should once
get above them (after the tricks they have play*
ed with him) they are not sure he will totally
forget the usage he has had at their hands :
therefore it imports us now to advauco our in-
terest a little further, by some such project as I
have named, before we dissolve the parliament;
or else, perhaps, we shall but change masters (a
parliament for ministers), and continue still in
the same slavery and bondage as before. Bot
one such step as I have proposed, being well
made, we may safely see them dissolved, and
not fear the ministers ; but shall be established,
and stand firm without any opposition ; for
every bod v will then come over to us, and wor-
ship the rising sun.
■ " I have here given you the history of three
years, as short as I could, though I am afraid it
will seem very long and troublesome to your
reverence, among the multitude of affairs you
are concerned in : I have also shewn you the
present state of our case, which may (by God's
providence, and good conduct) be made of such
advantage to God's church ; that for my part. I
can scarce believe myself awake, or the thing
real, when I think on a prince in such an age
as we live in, converted to such a degree of zeal
and piety, as not to regard any thing in the
world in comparison of God Almighty's glory,
the salvation of his own soul, and the conver-
sion of our poor kingdom ; which has been a
long time oppressed, and miserably harassed
with heresy and schism. I doubt not but yoar
reverence will consider our case, and'take it to
heart, and afford us what help you can; both
with the king of heaven, by your holy prayers-,
and with his most Christian majesty, by that
great credit which you most justly have with
him. And if ever his majesty's affairs (or your
own) can want the service of so inconsiderable
a creature as myself, you shall never find any
body readier to obey your commands, or faith-
fuller in the execution of them, to the best of
his power, than your most humble and obedient
servant." '
Att. Gen. That I may make things clear,
as much as possible ; you see, here is a letter
prepared to be sent, writ with Mr. Coleman's
own hand, to M. la Chaise: This letter bears
date the 29th of September. We have an An-
swer to it from Paris, October 23, whereby M.
la Chaise owns the receipt of this: and, in this
Answer is expressed thanks to Mr. Coleman for
his long Jetter. Sir Robert, Fray tell how you
came by this Letter.
fltfj STATE TRIAI& 30 OuitftES II. l&l$.-~Trial tf Edward Cokman, £48
which we have given most signal testimonies,
even' to the stripping ourseif of many royal pre-
rogatives which our predecessors enjoyed, and
were our undoubted due; as the court of
wards, purveyances, and other things of -great
value; and denying to ourseif many ndvnn*
tages, which we might reasonably and legally
ha«e taken by the forfeitures made in the times
of rebellion, and the great revenues doe to the
Church at our return, which no particular pen*
son had any right to; instead of which, we
consented to nn act of oblivion of all those
barbarous usages which our > royal father and
ourseif had met withal, much more full and
gracious than almost any of our subjects, who
were generally become in some measure or
other obnoxious to the laws, had confidence t*
ask ; and freely renounced all our title to the
profit which we might have made by the church
lands, in favour of our bishops and otlier ec-
clesiastical ministers, out of our zeal to the
glory of our Protestant Church; which cle-
mency towards all, and some even high offen-
ders, and zeal for religion, we have to this day
constantly contioued to exercise. Considering
all this, we cannot but be sensibly afflicted to
see, that the frowaidoess of some few tumul-
tuous heads should be able to infect our loyal
and good people with apprehensions destructive
of their own, and the general quiet of our king-
dom; and more especially, tlieir ptrversneat
should be powerful enough to distract our very
parliament, and such a parliament, as has given
us such testimonies of its loyalty, wj»dt>oi, and
bounty, and to which we have given as mans;
marks of our affection and esteem, so as to
make them misconstrue ail our endeavours for
to preserve our people in ease and prosperity,
and against all reason and evidence to repre-
sent them to our subjects as arguments of fear
aud disquiet; and under these specious pre-
tences of securing property and religion, to de-
mand unreasonable tilings, manifestly destruc-
tive of what they would be thought Co arm at ;
and from our frequent condescensions, out ef
our mere grace, to grant them what we con-
ceived might give them satisfactian, though tt>
the actual prejudice vf our .royal prerogative,
to make tlietu presume to propose to advance
such extravagancies into laws, as they them-
selves have formerly declared detestable ; of
which we cannot forbear to give our truly loyal
subjects some instances, to undeceive our
innocent and well- minded people, who have
many of them of late been too easily misled,
by the -factious endeavours of gome turbulent •
spirits. For example, We having judged it
necessary to declare war against the States of
Holland, during a recess of parliament, which
we could not defer longer, without losing an
advantage which then presented itself, nor bane
done sooner, without exposing our honour to -a
potent enemy without due pfeparati'tn, we
thought it prudent to unite all our mbjeets at
home, and did believe a general indulgence «f
tender consciences* the most proper expedient
to effect it; *nd tberefoiedid by oar authoriry
Sir 'Bon. tioutJiamlL I found this Letter in
Air. Coleman's .canvas hag; ailer .we had once
-looked over the letters, we found it: -sir Philip
Xloyd examined it; and we looked over those
.papers very exactly. Because the House of
^Commons wire very much concerned, and
thought those papers were not thoroughly exa-
. mined, I reviewed tbem again. This Letter
.was found on Sunday following after the papers
avere seized
AM. Gen. Sir Robert Southwell, I pray lead
•the Letter in French first to the court. Sir
Robert having read the letter in French, Mr.
Attorney desired him to read it in English. Sir
•Robert read it in English : The letter was dated
Paris, Oct. 23, 1675. And subscribed, " Your
most humble and obedient Servant, D. L. C."
at the bottom.
The Letter.
" Sir ; " From Paris, Get. *3, 1675.
€i The letter which you gave yourself the
trouble to write to me, came to my hands but
the last night, I read it with great satisfac-
tion ; -and I aisure you, that its length did not
make it seem tedious. I should be very glad
on my part to assist in seconding your good
intentions; I will consider of the means to
effect it ; and wheu I am better informed than
I am as yet, I will give you an account : to the
end I may hold intelligence with you, as you
did with my predecessor. I desire you to be-
lieve that I will never- fail as to my good will,
for the service of your master, whom I honour
as much as he deserves ; and that it is with
great truth that I am your most humble and
most obedient Servant, " D. L. C."
Att. Gen. We made mention of a Decla-
ration : By his long narrative it plainly ap-
pears, that Mr. Coleman would have had ano-
ther parliament. And the reason why he was
' pleased to publish a Declaration, was, thereby
to shew the reasons for its dissolution. Sir
Philip Lloyd, did you find this writing among
Mr. Coleman's papers ?
Sir P. X. 1 did find ft among his papers.
Att. Gen. Pray read the Declaration.
Clerk of the Crown reads the Declaration.
The Declaration which Mr. Coleman pre-
pared, thereby shewing his lieasons for
the Dissolution of the Parliament.
" We having taken into our serious consi-
deration the heats and animosities which have
of late appeared among many .of our ^ery loyal
and laving subjects of this kingdom, end the
many fears and jealousies which some of them
aeem to lie under, of having their .liberties and
properties invaded, or their seugion altered;
and withal, carefully 'reflecting upon our own
government since our .happy fteatoratiiui, and
.the end and aim of it, which has aUrays been
the ease and security of our people in all their
eights, and advancement of ike beauty and
etuender of the true Protestant religion esta-
hhshfd in lh* Churob x>f £nglaad; of both
«\
STATS TRIALS, SO Chaju.es IL 1678.^/br H$k Treaton.
f30
want we
*rh*nh
did,
thought sufficient to
Buepeud penal laws
tnatt dissenter* in religion, upon conditions
ssstcntd in oar Declaration* out of reason of
late, as well aa to gratify our owa nature,
abrcb always, we confess, abhorred rigor, espe*
dally in tengpou, when tenderness might be as
nefui. After we hod engaged in the war, we
prorogued one parliament front April to Octo-
ber, being cooudent we should be able by that
to shew our people such success of our
as should make them cheerfully contri*
bote to oar charge. At October we could
sate shewn them success even beyond our own
James, or what they could poasiUy expect ; our
enemies having lost by that time, near 100
strong towns and forts, taken in effect by us,
we holding them busy at sea, whilst our allies
Ives? of their land*, with little
and of which, (he great ad*
rould most visibly have been ours, had
•at the sends we now complain of, which have
since unhappily started, and factiously
by some few, disunited our people,
oor councils, and rendered our late
ivoonV vain- and fruitless ; so that we had
in to doubt of our people's ready and
roncarrence to our assistance in that
ooajttactore. Yet our enemies proposing to ns
at that time a treaty for peace, which we were
ahvays ready to accept upon honourable terms ;
esd considering with oiirseif, that in case that
tieaty succeeded, a for less sum of money
would serve our occasions, than otherwise
woeJd he necessary : We, out- of oor tender
segprd to the ease of oar people, prorogued our
it again to February, to attend the
of oax treaty, rather than to demand
in October, as would be fit to
carry aa rise war. But we soon finding that
did not intend us any just satis-
a necessity of prosecuting the war,
w designed to do most vigorously ; and
ta aider to it, resolved to press our parliament
co ■■paly no as speedily as may be, to enable
aa to pat our fleet to sea early in the spring,
wnicei would after, their meeting grow on apace.
And being informed that many members were
dead daring the long recess, we issued out our
writ* lor new elections, that oar House of Com-
be full at the first opening of the
_ to prevent any. delay in our public at-
or dislike in pur people, as might possibly
riteo from the want of so great a number
of their representatives, if any thing of moment
aJseaid be concluded before it had been supplied.
saariae; governed our actions all along with snch
caretaT respect to the ease of our subjects, we
at rJse meeting of our parliament in February
!£?£, expected from them some suitable. ex-
of their sense of our favours ; btft
r, found ourself alarmed with cto-
complaints from several cabals against
sfl om* procexdiagt, frightim* tattia of oor good
■■sytMjta kuoatzana* a*aceii» brwhiuvthey. roust
Jstksnr, by th«t> «euidoas and faJse construe*
oaue/what we bwrf?S* candwlry aaai'«0ccssty
?Ol» T1U
done for their good; and surprised wit* a vote?
of our House of Commons, against our writs*
of ejections, which we intended for their satis-
faction*, against many precedents of ours, or
without any colour of law of their side^ denying
our power to issue out such writs addressing to
us to i*sue out oihers : which we consented to do
at their request, choosing rather to yield to our
subjects in that point, than to be forced to sub-
mit to our enemies in others ; hoping that our
parliament being sensibly touclied with that oar
extraordi nary condescension, wo uldgo on to con*
sider the public concern of the kingdom, with*
out any further, to do: but we found another use
of our so easy compliance, which served to en-
courage them to ask more ; soi hat 8900 aftferwe
found our declaration for indulging tender con-
sciences arraigned and voted illegal; though wo
cannot to this day understand the coosisteaeiee
of that vote, with our undoubted supremacy id ait
ecclesiastics, recognized by so many acts ofnar-
liament, and required to be sworn to by oil our
subjects* and addresses made to 0s one al tier aso*
titer to recal it, which we condescended to also;
from hence they proceeded to us to weaken
ourself in an actual war, and to render many*
of our subjects, of whose loyally and ability wn
were well satisfied, incapable to $erve ns, whets
we wanted officers and soldiers, and had reason
to invite as' many experienced men as we eouM
to engage in our arms, rather than to ittcepa*
citate or discourage any ; 'yet this also we gra-
tified them in, to gain tlieir assistance against
our enemies, who grew high by these our dif-
ferences, rather than expose our country, to
their power and fury; hoping that in thneioor
people would be confounded to see our coades*
sions, and be ashamed of their errors in making
such demands. But finding the unfortunate
effects of our divisions the following summer,
we found our parliament more extravagant at
the next meeting than erer, addressing to us to
binder the consummation of our dear brother's
marriage, contrary to the law of God, waiob
forbiddeth any to separate any whom he hath
j oined* against our faith and honour engaged in
the solemn Treaty, obstinately persisting in that
Address, after we had acquainted then), that
the marriage was then actually ratified, and that
we had acted in it by our ambassador ; so that
we were forced to separate them for a while,
hoping they would bethink themselves better
at their meeting in January. Instead of being
more moderate, or ready to consider our want*,
towards the war ; they voted, as they had done
before, not to assist us still, until their religion-
were effectually secured against popery, ag*.
grievances redressed, and all obnoxroas men
removed from us ; which we bad reason to take
for an absolute denial of all aid; considering the*
indent] iteness of what was to proceed*, and the
moral impossibility of effecting it in their senses >
for when will they say their religion isefiboteally
secured from popery, if it were in danger then^
by reason of the insolency of papists ; when
our House of Commons, which is made np 06
members from every corner of our kingdom*
E
51) STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II 1678.-7™/ qf Edward Coleman, [52
with invitations publicly posted up to all men
to accuse theui, has not yet in so tnanj years
as they have complained of them, been able to
charge one single member of that communion,
' with so much as a misdemeanor? Or what se-
curity could they possibly expect against that
body of men, or their religion, more then we
had given them ? or how can we hope to live
so perfectly, that study and pains may not make
a collection of grievances, as considerable as
that which was lately presented to us, than
which we could not have wished for a better
vindication of our government? or when shall
we be sure that all obnoxious men are re-
moved from us, when common fame thinks fit
to call them so ; which is to every body, with-
out any proof, sufficient to render any man ob-
noxious, who is popishly affected, or any thing
else that is ill, though tliey have never so often
or lately complied with their own tests, and
marks of distinction and discriminations? find-
ing our people thus unhappily disordered, we
taw it impossible to prosecute the war any
longer; and therefore did by their advice make
a peace upon such conditions as we could get ;
hoping that being gratified in that darling point
they would at least have paid our debts, and
enabled us to have built some ships for the fu-
ture security of our honour, and their own pro-
perties ; but they being transported with tlieir
success in asking, were resolved to go on still
that way) and would needs have us put upon
the removing of our judges from those charges,
which they have always hitherto held at the
will and pleasure of the crown, out of our pow-
er to alter the ancient laws of trying of peers,
and to make it a premunire in our subjects (in
a case supposed) not to fight against ourself;
nay, some had the heart to ask, that the here-
ditary succession of our crown (which is the
foundation of all our laws) should be changed
into a sort of election, they requiring the
heir to be qualified with certain conditions
to make him capable of succeeding; and
outdoing that Popish doctrine, which we
have so long and so loodly with good reason
decried, that heresy incapacitates kings to
reign. They would have had, that the heir of
the crown, marrying a papist, though he con-
tinued never so orthodox himself, should forfeit
his right of inheritance ; not understanding this
paradoxical way of securing religion by destroy-
ing it, as this would have done that of the
church of England, which always taught obe-
dience to their natural kings, as an indispen-
sable duty in all good christians, let the reli-
gion or deportment of their prince be wliat it
wjU ; and not knowing how soon that impe-
diment, which was supposed as sufficient to
keep out an heir, might be thought as lit to
removo a possessor: And comparing that bill
which woukl have it a premunire in a sheriff
not to raise the Pone Comitatui, against our
commission in a case there supposed, though
we ourself should assist that our commission in
oar person : For not being excepted is implied
w ith the other made by this very parliament in
the 14th year of our reign, which all our sub-
jects, or at least many ofthem, were oWliged to
swear (vis. That the doctrine of taking up arms
by the king's authority, agaiust bis person, was)
detestable) ; and we soon found that the design
was levelled against the good Protestant reii*
gion of our good church, which its eoemies had
a mind to blemish, by sliding in slily those
damnable doctrines, by such an authority as
that of our parliament, into the profession of
our faith or practices, and so expose our -whole
religion to the scoru and reproach of them*
selves, and ail the world : We therefore thought
it our duty to be so watchful as to prevent the
enemies sowing such mischievous tares as these,
in thex wholesome field of our church of Bng*
land, and to guard the unspotted spouse of oar
blessed Lord from that foul accusation with
which she justly charges other churches, of
teaching their children loyalty, with so many
reserves and conditions, that they shall never
want a distinction to justify rebellion ; nor a
text of scripture, a» good as Curse ye Meroc,
to encourage them to be traitors : Whereas oar
truly reformed church knows no such sub tH ties;
but teaches according to the simplicity of Chris-
tianity, to submit to every ordinance of man for
God's sake, according to the natural signification
of the words, without equivocation or artificial
turns. In order to which, having thought to
dissolve that body, which we have these many
years so tenderly cherished, and which we are
sure consists generally of most dutiful and loyal
members, we were forced to prorogue our par-
liament till November next, hoping thereby to
cure those disorders, which have been sown
among the best and loyalest subjects by a lew
malicious incendiaries. But understanding
since, that such who have sowed that seditions
seed, are as industriously careful to water it by
their cabals, and emissaries, instructed on
purpose to poison our people with discourses in
public places, in hopes of a great crop of con*
fusion, their beloved fruit, the next sessions;
we have found it absolutely necessary to dis-
solve our parliament, though with great retuct-
ancy and violence to our inclination : But re-
membering the days of our royal father, and
the progress of affairs then, how from a cry
against popery the people went on to complain
of grievances, and against evil counsellors and
his majesty's prerogative; until they advanced
into a formal rebellion, which brought forth the
most direful and fatal effects that ever were yet
heard of amongst any men, christians or others ;
and withal, finding so great a resemblance
between the proceedings thenand now, that they
seem both broth of the same brains i And being
confirmed in that conceit,, by observing the ac-
tions of many now, who bad a great share in
the former rebellion, and their seal for religion
who by their lives gave as too much reason to
suspect they have none at all ; we thought it
not sale to dally too long, as our Uoyal Father
did, with submissions and condescensions, en*
deavouring to cure men infected, without re-
moving them from the air where they got the
*J
STATE TttlALS, 50 Chari.es II. itfTS.-^br High Treason.
M
disease, and io which it still rages and increases
daily. For fear of meeting with no better
success than be found io suffering bis parlia-
ment to challenge power they bad nothing to do
with, till they bad bewitched the people into
sond desires of such things as quickly destroyed
both kins* and country, which in us would [be]
an intolerable error, having been warned so late-
ly by the most execrable murder of our Royal
Father, and the inhuman usage which we our
self in our royal person and family have suffer-
ed, and our loyal subjects have endured, by
soch practices ; and Jest this our great care of
this oar kingdom's quiet, and our own honour
and safety, should, as our best actions hi then o
have been, be wrested to some sinister sense
and arguments be made frum it to scare our
tpod people into any apprehensions of an ar-
bitrary government either in church or state:
We do hereby solemnly declare and faithfully
engage our royal word, that we will in no case
either ecclesiastical or civil, violate or alter the
known la«s of our kiogdom, or invade any
sun's property or liberty without due course
of a\w : But that we will with our utmost en-
deavours preserve the true Protestant Religion,
sad redress all such things as shall indifferently,
and without passion, be judged grievances by
our next parliament, which we do by God's
blessing intend to call before the end of Fe-
bruary next. Io the mean time we do strictly
charge and command all manner of persons
whatsoever, to forbear to talk seditiously ,
shgbdj or irreverently of our dissolving of the
parliament, of this our declaration, or of bur
person or government, as they will answer it
at their perils ; we being resolved to prosecute
all offenders in that kind with the utmost rigour
aad severity of the law. And to the end that
soch licentious persons, if any shall be so im-
nodent and obstinate as to disobey this our
royal command, may be detected and brought
to doe punishment, we have ordered our Lord
Treasurer to make speedy payment of twenty
poaads to any person or persons who shall dis-
cover or bring any such seditious, slight or
irreverent talker before any of our principal
secretaries of £tate.'f
Recorder. I would have the jury should
know the Declaration ends, "To one of his
majesty's principal secretaries of state;' where-
of be hoped to be one.
Ait. Gen. This is written in the name of
the king; for Mr. Coleman thought himself
now secretary of state, and he pens the Decla-
ration, for. the king to give an account why the
parliament was dissolved.
Serj. Mnynard. The long letter, it appears,
was to dissolve the parliament ; and to make
it cock-sure, be provides a Declaration to shew
the reason of it : it was done in order to bring
jb popery ; that may appear by the subsequent
proof.
Ait. Gen. I have other evidence to offer to
soar lordship, which is, That Mr. Coleman was
'sot only to bold as to prepare a Declaration for
the king, but also out of his own further inge*
nuity, prepares a Letter (contrary to the duke a
knowledge; for the duke, which before several
Lords he confessed ; and sir Philip Floyd is
here ready tojustify it.
Sir PhHip Floyd. I did attend a Committee
of the House of Lords to Newgate, who exa-
mined Mr. Coleman, and told him of the letter
Mr. Attorney mentioneth ; he then confessed,
that it was prepared without the order and pri-
vity of the duke ; and when he was so bold. as
to shew it the duke, the duke was very angry
and rejected it.
L. C. J. He hath been a very forward un-
dertaker on the behalf of the duke.
Att. Gen. I desire the Letter may he read.
The Copy of the Letter written to M. La Chaise
the French kings Confessor; which Mr,
Coleman confessed he himself wrote and
counterfeited in the duke's name.
Clerk of the Crown reads the Letter.
" The 2d of June last past, his most christian
majesty offered me most generously his friend-
ship, and the use of his purse, to the assist-
ance against the designs of my enemies and
his; and protested unto me, that his interest
and mine were so clearly linked together, that
those that opposed the one, should be looked
upon as enemies to the other ; and told me
moreover his opinion of my lord Arlingtou,
and the parliament ; which is, That he is of
opinion that neither the one nor the other is
in his interest or mine : And thereupon he de-
sired me to make such propositions as I should
think fit in this conjuncture.
" All was transacted by the means of Fa-
ther Ferrier, who made use of Sir William
Throckmorton, who is an honest man, and of
truth, who was then at Paris, and had held cor-
respondence with Coleman, one of my family,
in whom I have great confidence.
" I was much satisfied to see his most chris-
tian majesty altogether of my opinion, sol made
him answer the 29th of June, by the same
means he made use of to write to me, that is,
by Coleman, who addressed himself to Father
Ferrier (by the forementioned knight), and en-
tirely agreed to his most christian majesty, as
well to what had respect to the union of oar
interests, as the unusefulness of my lord Arling-
ton, and the parliament, in order to the ser-
vice of the king my brother, and his most chris-
tian majesty ; and that it was necessary to
make use of our joint and utmost credits, te
prevent the success of those evil designs, re-
solved on by trie lord Arlington and the pas*
liament, against his most christian majesty
and myself; which, of my side, I promise
really to perform : of which, since that time,
I have given reasonable good proof.
" Moreover I made some proposals, which I
thought necessary to bring to pass what we
were obliged to undertake, assuring him, That
nothing could so firmly establish our iu^rcst
with the king my brother, as that very tame
iS) STATE TRIALS, 36 Chakles II. 1676 — Trial tfEdxoord Coleman, (J5G
Offer of the help of his purse; by" which1
*neans-I had ranch reason to hope I should he
enabled to persuade to the dissolving of the
parliament, and to make void the designs of
my lord Arlington, who works incessantly to
advance the interest of the prince of Orange
and the Hollanders; and to lessen that of the
khig your master, notwithstanding all the pro-
testations he bath made to this hour to render
him service.
" Bnt as that, which was proposed, was at a
stand by reason of the sickness of Father Fer-
rier, so our affairs suceeried not according to
Onr designs ; only Father Ferrier wrote to roe,
the 15th of the hit tnonth, That he had com-
municated those propositions to his most chris-
tian majesty, and that they had been very well
liked or; bat as they contained things that had
regard to the catholic religion, and to the offer
and use of his purse, he g:ue me to understand
he did not desire 1 should treat with M. Riu-
▼igny upon the first, but c* %o the last, and had
the same time acquainted me, that M. Kouvigny
had order to grant mc whatsoever the conjunc-
ture of our affairs did require ; and have ex-
pected the effects of it to this very hour: But
nothing being done in if, and seeing, on the
other hand, that my lord Arlington and seve-
ral others endeavoured by a thousand deceits
to break the good intelligence which is between
the king my brother, his most christian majesty,
and myself, to the end they might deceive us all
three-; i have thought fit to advertise you of
all that is past, and desire of you your assist-
ance and friendship to prevent the rogueries
of those, who have no other desim than to be-
tray the concerns of France and England al*o,
and who by their pretended service are the oc-
casion they succeed not.
" As to any thing more, I refer you to u'r
William Throckmorton, and Coleman, whom I
have commanded to give an account of the
whole state of our affair, and of the true con-
dition of England, with many others, and prin-
cipally my lord Arlington's endeavours, to re-
present to you quite otherwise than it is.
" The two fi-st I mention to you are firm to
rav interest, so that you may treat with them
without any apprehension."
Serj. Maynard. Gentlemen of the Jury, pray
observe that he takes upon him to prepare a
letter, and that in the duke's name, but con-
trary to the duke's knowledge or privacy ; for
When he had so much boldness as to tell him of
it, the duke was angry, and rejected it. But m
it we may see what kind of passages there are,
he takes very much upon him in this matter.
And Mr. Coleman must keep the secret too.
Att. Gen. My Lord, I liare but one paper
more to read, and I have kept it till the la:* ;
fceeause if we had proved nothing by witnes-
ses, or not read any thing but thib, this one let-
ter is sufficient to maintain the charge against
tifm : It plainly appears to whom it was directed
and at what time. It begins thus (I sent Your
reverence a tedious long letter on our 49th of
fpptember), I paly mention this, to shew
about what time it was sent. There are som£
elauses hrit will speak better than I can. Sir
Thomas Doleman and air Philip Floyd' swear
he hath confessed and owned it to be his hand-
writing. 1 desire the letter may be read.
Clerk of the Crown reads the JUtter.
" Sir; I sent jour reverence a tedious long
letter on our 29th Sept. to inform you of the
progress of affairs for these two or three last
years; I having now again the opportunity of A
very sure hand to convey this by, T have sent
you a cypher, because our parliament now)
drawing on, I may possibly nave occasion to
send you something which you may be willing
enough to know, and may be necessary for us
that you should, when wc may want the co ri-
ven iency of a messenger. When any thing
occurs of more concern, other than which may
not be fit to be trusted even to a cypher alone,
I will, to make such a thing more secure, write
in lemon between the lines of a letter, which
shall have nothing in it viable, but what I care
not who sees, but dried by a warm fire, shaft
discover what is written ; so that if the letter
comes to your hand*, and upon drying it any
thing appears more than did before, you may
be sure no body has seen it hy the way. I will
not trouble you with that way of writing, bu£
upon special occasions, and then I will give
you a hint to direct you to look for it, by con-
cluding my visible letter with something of fire^
or burning, by which mark you may please t<»
know, that there is something underneath, and
how my letter is to be used to find it out.
" Wc have here a mighty work upon our
hands, no less than the conversion of three
kingdoms, and by that perhaps the utter sub-
duing af a pestilent heresy, which has domi-
neered over great part of this Not them world
a long time; there were never such hopes of
( success since the death of our queen Mary, as
now in our days: When God has given us .a
prince, who is become (may I say a miracle)
zealous of being the author and instrument of
so glorious a. work; but the opposition we are
sure to «nert v. ith, is aUo like to he great : So
that it imports us to get all the aid and assist-
ance we can, for the harvest is great, and the
labourers but few. That which we rely upon
most, next to God Almighty's providence, and
the favour of my master the Duke, is the mighty
mind of his most Christian majesty, whose ge-
nerous soul inclines him to great undertakings,
which being managed by your reverences
exemplary piety and prudence, will certainly
make him .look upon this as most suitable to
himself, and best becoming his power and
thoughts ; so that I hope you will pardon me,
if I be very troublesome to you upon this occa-
sion, from whom I expect the greatest help we
can hope for. I must confess I think his Chris-
tian majesty's temporal interest is so much at-
tracted to that of his royal highness (which
can never be considerable, hut upon the growth
and advancement of the catholic religiou) that
his ministers cannot give him better advice,
m
STATE TRTAUg, 30
II. I67%.~jkr Higlk Trea*M.
(»
even in a politic seme, sfestrectmsz from the
cowideratrons of the next world, that of oar
blessed Lord, ' to seek first the kingdom of
* beaveo, and the righteousness tbeieo^that all
' other things may be added onto him/ That
{know his most Christian majesty has mora
powerfhl motives suggested to him by his own
devotioo, and your reverence's seal tbr God's
dory, to engage htm to afford os the best help
be can m our present circumstances. But we
are a little unhappy in this, that we cannot press
his majesty by his present minister here upon
these Utter arguments (which are most strong),
hat only upon the first, Mr. Rouvigny's sense
sad ours differing very much upon them,
though we agree perfectly upon the rest : And,
indeed, though be be a very able man, as to hit
master's service, in things where religion is not
concerned ; yet I believe it were much more
happy (considering the posture he is now in),
that his temper were of such a sort, that we
might deal defer! y with him throughout, and
not be forced to stop short in a discourse of
csBteqaeace, and leave the most material part
oat, because we know it would shock his par-
ticular opinion, and so perhaps meet with dis-
fte and opposition, though never so necessary
to the main concern. I am afraid we shall find
too much reason for this cam plaint in this neat
session of parliament ; For had we had one
here from his most Christian majesty, who had
taken the whole business to heart, and who
wouM have represented the state of our case
truly, as it is, to his master, 1 do not doubt but
ha most Christian majesty would have engaged
bboseif farther iu the affair than at present I
fear be has done, and by bis approbation have
pea such coons*- 1* as have been offered to his
TDjal highness bj those few catholics who
have access to him, and who are bent to serve
fcua tad advancer the catholic religion with all
$eir miglit, and might have more credit with
fen royal highness than i fear they have
fcood, and have assisted them also with his
parse as far as 10,000 crown9, or some such
Mm (which to him is very inconsiderable, but
would have been to them of greater use than
can be imagined), towards gaining others to
help them, or at least not to oppose them. If
*e bad been so happy as to have had his most
Christian majesty wtth us to this degree, I would
bare answered with my life for such success
thn ttsuons, as would have put the interest of
the catholic religion, his royal highness and
bniaost Christian majesty, out of all danger for
the time to come. Bat wanting those helps of
nxonunending those necessary counsels, which
bate been given his royal highness in such
manner as to make him think them worth his
accepting, and fit to govern himself by; and of
those airvantaces, which a little money, well
managed, would have gained us; I am afraid
*e shall not be much better at the end of this
sessions than we are now. I pray God we do
tot lose ground. By my next, which will be
ere long,%sball be able to tell your reverence
•ore particularly, what we are like to expect.
In the mean tine i most humbly beg «oer holy
prayers for ell our undertakings, and that you
will be pleased to honour me so far an to utter m
me what I am entirely, and without any reeetee*
Mon tres Reverend Pert, de votre JL
Le plus humble, plus obeisaMsevaiteur.?
[Several other Letters were read, but because
of prolixity they are omitted, these feeing m/>st
material,]
dtt. Gen. I have done with my evidence |
we need no more eroof against ham.
Pris. My Lord, I would, if your lordship
please, very Cain ask of Mr. Oates (because be
was pleased to say he was present with me i*
May or April), whether he knows the particular
days of the months.
[Here Mr. Oates (who being tired, withdrew
to rest himself) was called, and tbe prisoner
was asked, whether he would speak wtth Bed*
loe, but he desired not to speak with him.]
Oates. The consult that was held in May
New-stile, is April Old-stile ; it was within a
day, or two, or three of the consult }
Pris. Where was the consult ?
Oates. It was begun at the Whtte-Uore*
Taveru ; then they did adjourn it to several
clubs and companies, and yon came two or
three days after the consult to the ProviaoiaJV
chamber, we (hen desiring to go out of town,
Pris. Was you there, and who else ?
Oates. Thera was the provincial, and Micho
and Strange the old provincial, and Keiaeyour
companion.
Pris. What day of August was that at the
Savoy ?
Oates. I cannot swear the particular day ef
the month, I cannot so far charge my memory1.
The result at the consult in May **», that
Pickering and Groves should go on in their at-
tempt to assassinate the person of hts majesty
by (hooting or otherwise. Mr. Coleman kaew
of this, and said, it was a goad design.
L. C. J. Who was there } Was Mr. Cot*
man with them at the consultation J
Oates. No, my lord ; but two or three day*
after the consultation, he was at Wild-House,
and there he expressed that he approved of it.
L. C. J. Did he consent to it ?
Oates. He did consent to it. '
Just. Wild. Did he use no words about it?
Octet. He did shew his approbation of it.
But in those instructions, that weae brought to
Ashby, lie did say it was a very good pro position,
hut he thougltt the reward was too little.
L. C. J. Djd he use any words to declare
his assent ?
Oates. Two things lieeooehed in the 'ques-
tion, whether your lordship means the consul^
or the instructions he did approve of.
L. C. J. How long after the consultation
wo* it that he approved of it ?
Oates. It was two or three days before fee
did give his approbation. '
Just. Wild. What words did he say *
Oates. ' He did express his consent ; feutte
say the very words, I cannot tell.
59] STATE TRIALS, SO. Cjiasles II. 1678.— Trial tf Edward Coleman, [(*
authority and power upon us, which must be
the necessary consequence: How can this be
proved plainer than by your letter, to press the
French king that he would use bis power ?
Pris. Consider the contexture and connec-
tion of things, whether the whole series be not
to make the king and the duke (as far as I
thought in my power) as great as could be.
L. C.J. How well or ill you excuse the
fault, that is not the question ; they relate to
the duke most of them, little to the king. You
were carrying on such a design that you in-
tended to put the duke in the head of, in suich
method and ways as the duke himself would
uot approve, but rejected,
Pris. Do not think I would throw any
thing upon the duke. Though I might (in the
begioning of it) possibly make use of the duke's
name, it is possible (they say I did) , but can
any imagine the people will lay down money
200,000/. or 20,000/. with me upon the duke's
name, and not know whether the duke be in it?
And consequently nobody will imagine the
duke would ever employ any sum to tins king's
prejudice or disservice while be lived. 1 take
it for granted (which sure none in the world will
deny), that the law was ever made imme-
diately subject to the king or duke : and conse-
quently to the duke, I cannot think this will
ever be expounded by the law of England, or
die jury, to be treason.
L. C. J. What a kind of way and talking is
ibis? You have such a swimming way of
melting words, that it is a troublesome thing for
a man to collect matter out of them. You
give yourself up to be a great negotiator in the
altering of kingdoms, you would be great with
mighty men for that purpose; and your long
discourses and great abilities might have been
spared. The ibing these letters do seem to im-
port, is this, That your design was to bring in
popery into England, and to promote die inter-
est or the French king in this place, for which
you hoped to have a pension (that is plain}.
The duke's name is often mentioned, that u
true; sometimes it appears it is against his
will, and sometimes he might know of it,
and be told that the consequence was not
great. Now say you these sums of money and
alt that was done, it did relate to the king or
duke, and it was to advance their interest,
and you thought it was the way to do it. How
can this advance them, unless it were done to
do them service ? And if they do not consent
10 it, and how can this be treason, what kiud
of stuff is tins? You do seem to be a mighty
aiient, might not you for a colour use the duke
of York's name to drive on the Catholic
cause, which you was driven to by the priests
mightily, and think to get 200,000/. advance
money, and a pension fur your»elf, and make
yourself somebody for the present, and secre-
tary of state for the future? If you will make
any defence for yourself, or call in witnesses,
we will hear them; Say what you can; for
these vaiu inconsequential discourses signify
nothing. :
. L.C.J. Will you ask biro any more?
Prti. I would know the day in, August?
L. C J. He aaith he doth not remember
Jheday.
Oates. I believe, I will not be positive in
ft, it was about the 81st day of August.
Just. Wild, and Just. Jones. Was it in Au-
gust Old-stile ?^
' Oates. Yes.
Pris. I can prove I was in Warwickshire at
that time. That day ' be guesseth, the 91st
of August, I can make it appear I was fourscore
aulas off.
X. C. J. You will do well to prove you was
there when the guinea was given. Will you
ask any more?
Prii. No.
- L> C. J.' You may say as you will, but Mr.
Oates doth charge, that expressly in August
(according. to the English stile) you were at this
Wild-House, and that lie saw fourscore pounds
prepared. You, Mr. Coleman, asked the
question, what preparations were made for the
men going to Windsor? It was answered,
fourscore pounds are prepared: and yourself
fare a guinea for expedition. It is a hard mat-
ter to press a man to tell the precise day of the
Inontb, but positively he doth say it was in
August
* Prii. I was two and twenty or three and
twenty days in August in Warwickshire.
L.C. J What have you now more to say?
Prss. My Lord,! never saw Mr. Oates hut
in the council- chamber, I never saw him in
Borne, in other parts I never saw the face of
kirn, or knew him in my whole life ; nor did
I see the other till now in court, as I hope to
be saved. And then, my lord, us to their tes-
timopy, neither of them swear the self same
tact.
L. C.J. No man shall be guilty if denial
shall make him innocent : they swear to the
fact of killing the king, both of them, aud that's
.enough. If one saith you have a plot to poitou,
that is killing the king ; and the other swears
a plot to shoot, or stab him, that is to the
killing of the king also : then there is your own
undertaking, in your letter, under your hand.
Prig, For treason (with submission to your
lordship), I hope there is none in that, though
there are very extravagant expressions in it. I
hope some expressions explain it, that it was
not ray dt sign to kill the king.
JL C. J. No, your design was for the con-
version of three kingdoms, and. subduing of that
heresy that had reigned so long in this northern
part of the world : ' and/or ejecting whereof,
* there were never more hopes since our queen
* Mary's time till now, aud therefore pressing
1 the king of France,' to use his power ? aid
and assistance ? and does this signify nothing ?
Pris. Doth aid and assistance signify more
than, money ? the word aid in French is power,
they are promiscuous words.
L. C. J. You are cliarged to have had a
{Correspondency and agency with foreign power
to subvert our religion, and bring in foreign
«l]
STATE TRIALS, 30 Chaelks IL l078.-^r High Ttauftr.
[09
Pro, I have witnesses to prove I was in
Warwickshire. .
LC.J. (to Boatman a witness): Where was
Ms. Coleman io August last ?
- Roatnmn. In Warwickshire.
L. C. J. How long?
am. Ail August, to my best remem-
L. C. J. Can you say that he was in War-
wickshire all August? that he was not at
London?
Boatman. I am not certain what time of
the month Lie was in London.
L. C. J. That he was there in August, may
be very true; I do not ask how long he was in
Warwickshire, but was he no where else ? (To
which the witness could make no positive
answer.)
Prig, I was at lord Denby'i, and at Mr.
Francis Fisher's ; I was there at least SO days,
X. C. J. Have yon any more witnesses ?
Pri*. None.
L. C* J. If yon have a mind to say any
thing more, say what you can.
fru. I can say nothing more than what I
have said. Positively I say, and upon my sal-
vation, I never saw these witnesses, Oates but
once, and Bedlow never before.
Mr. Solicitor General, (Sir Francis Win-
aington):
May it please your Lordship, and 'you Gen-
tlemen of the Jury; The cause before you (I
dare adventure to say) is a cause of as great a
nature, and includes as great crimes, as ever
came to this bar.
It is not a cause of a particular treason, but
it is a treason that runs to the whole; the king,
the government, and the Protestant religion,
all are comprehended in it.
The defence the prisoner has made is so very
short and of so slight a nature, that I shall con-
tract myself very much in what I had to say,
and onlv state to the Court, and Jury, the
principal things I rely upon.
The first crime laid in the indictment, is the
design of killing and destroying the royal per-
son of his majesty. The second, the subvert-
ing of the government,»and io doing that, the
destruction of the protestant religion.
And these treasons have been punctually
proved, as well by two witnesses, as by letters
under Mr. Coleman's own hand, whereby he
corresponded with M. . La Chaise, the French
king's confessor, as also by the answers which
were sent by M. La Chaise to Mr. Coleman.
As to the proofs made by the witnesses, the
substance of them is this: Mr. Oates swears,
that in April last O. $., and May N. 8., there
was a peneral consult or meeting of the Jesuits,
at the White-Horse tavern in the Strand ; and
afterwards they divided themselves foto several
companies, or dubs; and in those consults
they conspired the death of the king ; and con-
trived bow to effect it. > The manner of it was
thus (as Mr. Oates positively swears): That
Grove ao4 Pickering were employed to murder
me king; tod their design was to pistol him in
St. James's Park. Grove was to have 1,500?
in money,' and Pickering (being a priest) was to
have 80,000 masses, which was computed to
be of eaual value to 1,500/. according to the
usual price in the church of Rome. And this
conspiracy and contrivance Mr. Coleman was
privy to, and did well approve of the same, as
Mr. Oates affirmetb upon his oath. So that
here is a plain treason proved upon the prn
soner, by his assemiug to the fact to be done,
the law not allowing any accessaries ia treason.
And this, in law makes the prisoner as guilty
as auy of the assassinates, who designed to kill
the kuig with their own bands.
If this design should fail, Mr. Oates swears,
that the conspirators intended, a further. at*
tempt upon the royal person of the king, when
he should be at Windsor; and four Irish at*
sassinates were provided . by Dr. Fogerthy,
whose names he would not tell, and fourscore
guineas were provided by Father Harcourt, a
Jesuit, to maintain the assassinates at Windsor,
till they should have effected their wicked design.
While the conspiracy was thus in agitetipn,
Mr. Coleman, the prisoner, went to visit Har-
court the Jesuit at his house in town ; bat
finding him not at home, and. being informed
that be was at Wild-House, Mr. Coleman went
thither and found him there ; and Mr. Cole*
man asking what provision Harcourt had made
for the gentlemen at Wiudsor; Haroottrt re>
plied, that there were fourscore guineas, which
then lay upon the table, which were to be sent
to them ; and said, that the person who was sat
the room was to carry them ; to which /Mr,
Coleman replied, he liked it very well; and
gave a guinea out of bis own pocket to thai
messenger who was to carry the money to
Windsor, to encourage him to expedite tlie
business. But in case the design of killing bis
majesty at Windsor should be any ways pre-
veuted, then there was a further conspiracy to
destroy the king by poison. Mr. Oates swears,
that in July last, Ashby (a Jesuit]) brought in-
structions to London from Flanders, that in
case Pickering and Grove could not kjll the
king at London, nor the four Irish assassinates
at Windsor, that 10,000/. was to be proposed
to sir George' Wakeman to poison the king.
But it did appear by the letters that passed be-
tween White the provincial (here in London)
and Ashby, that Mr. Coleman said, he thought
10,000/. was too little; and therefore thought
it necessary to offer 5,000/. more, which after-
wards was assented to by the Jesuits abroad.
And Mr. Oates swears, he saw letters from the
provincial at London to % the Jesuits at St
Omers, signifying, that sir George Wakeman
had accepted of the proposition, and received
5,000/. of the money. By which testimony of
Mr. Oates, it plainly appears, that Mr. Cole-
man, the prisoner at the bar, was privy to the
conspiracy, and aiding and abetting to the
wicked and damnable design of murdering the
king.
- The second Witness is Mr. Bedlow, who
swears that he was employed by Harcourt, the
«1
STATE TRIALS, 30 CfutaiBt II. I678.-/OI1 High Trcaton.
Jettety td daffy pacqtfets of letters to M, La
Chaise, rhe French king's confessor ; and fur-
tttetseys, he wartta consult in France* where
the* Plot was discoursed on for killing the king;
end did bring back an answer from La Chime
19 Hnreourt in London ; and swears particu-
larly* that on the 24th or 95th of May, 1677,
he was at Coleman's house with Father Har-
eourt «nd some other persons, where Mr. Cole-
man, discoursing of the great design in hand,
raid these w»nh following : u That if he had a
sen of blood, and an hondred lives, he would
lose (hem all to carry on the design ; and if to
effect this it were necessary to destroy an hon-
dred heretic kmgs he would do it." So that
here is another positive oath to an act of trea-
son, committed by Mr. Coleman, in relation
te the murdering the king.
t The other pari of the Evidence consists of
Papers and Letters, which generally relate to
prove the latter part of the Indictment, to wit,
ttoeentif potion of the protectant religion, and
introducing of Popery, and the subvening of
the government. And this appears by a Let-
ter written by Mr. Coleman) dated 29 Sept.
1*3*5, and sent to M. La Chaise, the French
king's confessor; wherein he gives him an ac-
eoeat ef the transactions of several years be-
fove, and of the correspondence between Mr.
Cokeriaaj and M: Ferner predecessor of La
Cbaise; wherein be does also assert, that the
trite way to carry on the interest of France
and the* promoting of the Popish religion here
m England, was to get this parliament dissolv-
ed; which (says be) had been longsioce effected,
If 9QQ,0O0lx could have been obtained from
thai French king; and that things yet were in
iUCh a posture, that if he had but 90,000/.
( sent hmV from France, he would be content to
be1*- sacrifice to the utmost malice of. his ene-
mies, if the Protestant religion did not receive
stfch st blow us it could not subsist. And the
recerat-of this Letter was acknowledged by M.
Lsj Gluts*, in an Answer which be wrote to Mr.
Colesnan, dated from Paris October *3, 1675,
in which he give* him thanks for bis good ser-
vice, in-order to the promoting the Popish re-
SeVeral either letters hive* been produced
seel -reed, which were written bv Mr. Cole-
nttA'to M. Fetti'er and •others, And more parti*
cnJavty one letter dated August SI, 1671,
written by Mr. Coleman to the pope's inter-
nuncio-at Brussels; wherein he says, the Da-
slim prospered so well, that he doubted not
but in a little time the business would be ma-
itifeefr, to the utter rain of the Protestant
pa*?.
And by other letters he writes to the Frdnch
kht^s confessor, that the assistance of his Most
Gbrsltiein majesty is necessary, smd desires
ssferfey from the French king to carry on the
But there is one letbr without date, more
bloody than all the rest, which was written td
IftVLar Chaise in some short time after the
hshg letter of Sept. 4», 1675/ wherein among
[04
many other things, Coleman expresses himself:
" We have a mighty work upon our hands, no
less than the conversion of three kingdoms, and
the utter subduing of a pestilent heresy, which
hath for some time domineered over this
Northern part of the world; and we never had
*i great hopes of it since our queen Mary's
days." And in the conclusion of the letter he
implores M. La Chaise to get aU the aid and
assistance he can from France, and that next
to God Almighty tbey did rely upon the mighty
mind of his most Christian majesty, and there-
fore did hope La Chaise would procure money:
and assistance from him.
Now, any man that considers the contents
of these Letters, must needs agree that the
latter part of the Indictment, to wit, the tree*
son of endeavouring the subverting the govern*
ment and the Protestant religion, is fully proved
upon Mr. Coleman, the prisoner at the bar ;
and that these letters were written by bins, and
the answers received, he does not deny. . But
ail he has to say for himself, is, that it w&4 to
make the king of England great ; whereat thfe
contrary is most manifest, because the Jesuits
who love force and tyranny, always adhere to
those princes that are greatest in strength and
power. For it appears in history, that whets
the house of. Austria were in their greatness,
and like to arrive to the universal monarchy
in these parts of the world* the Jesuits all ad-
hered to that house : but since the French king
hath grown more mighty in power and great**
nets, they declined the interest of the Austrian
family, and do now promote • the counsels of
France, thinking that now that king will be-
come the universal monarch.
I shall therefore now* conclude the Evidence,
only observing to the jury, that the several
treasons in the indictment ere fully proved.
Tlie first, as to the destruction of the royal
person of the king, by two witnesses, Mr*
Oatesand Mr. Qedlow; the other -pert of it*
viz. the subversion of the government, and ex-
tirpation of the Protestant religion, by the se-
veral letters which have been before remem*
beTed, which have not been denied by the pri-
soner to be his. Therefore I hope, gentle-
men, that when you meet with offenders that
are guilty of such stupendous crimes, you will
do justice upon them, which will be great com-
fort and satisfaction to the king and aM hie
good Protestant subjects.
Serj. Pembertak. Gentlemen, you bear the
crime is of the highest nature, it is the subver-
sion of three kingdoms, and the subduingof that
religion which he defames by the name of
* PeWeht Heresy/ It concerns us aU to look
about us, and all the kingdom, when there
Shall he a design managed in this manner, to
destroy our king, and to take away our reli-
gion, and to enslave' us ell' te the pope, end
make us all truckle to tlie priests.
It is wonderful k is capable (at ibis day) of*
so great evidence, there is DigHus Dei in it,
or else it would be impossible such a thing
sbooM be made tomam&st: aU the rest the*
€5]
STATE TRIALS, 30Chahi.es II. \6l$.—jbr High Treason.
[<K>
» aid in the Indict me Dt are bat circumstances
that declare it : there is a strong evidence of
many matters of fact in this design, which de-
clare the intention hatched in his breast for
Buoy years together: here hath been a design
to kill the king, and he doth not only consent
to it, bat commend it ; what can be said to his
giving the money to him that was to pay itie
Jourscore pieces of gold to those ruffians sent
to Windsor ? and adding 5,000/. to the 10,000/.
for the doctor that was to poison the king?
He denies all.
No question bat a man that hath had a
heart to design »uch contrivances, will have
the Jace to deuy it publicly : it is a thing to be
acted in the dark. But there is both* Mr.
Oatesand Mr. Bedlow plainly prore it upon
him, that he consented to the acting the king's
death. What is the sense of his letters, but to
shew his design, and to beg the assistance of
France to them in their necessities r* The whole
correct is- to destroy our religion, I think you,
gentlemen of the jury, have bad such evidence
as win satisfy any man.
Proaaer. I deny all Mr. Oates's testimony,
for his saying to the council he did not know
me because he could not see me, when I was as
near as the next gentleman but one, but knew
me when I spake, and I spoke to almost all the
matters asked. He ace u set h me of a thing in
August, but names not the day : now if there
be one error in bis testimony, it weakens all
the rest. 1 went out of town on the 10th of
August, it was the latter end I came home,
about the middle of Bartholomew fair, the las*
bay of August.
L C. J. Have you any witness to prove that ?
Prig. I cannot say I have a witness.
2*. C. J. Then you say nothing.
Pris. People cannot speak to a day, to a
thing they neither imagined or thought of.
L. C. /. I ask your servant, do you know
when sir. Coleman went out of town ? |
CoiemnitSero. Jn August ; I cannot say par-
ticularly the day.
L. C. J. Do you know when he came home ?
Serv. I cannot remember.
Just. Wyld. Where was you the last Bar-
thojomew-day ?
Serv. I was in town.
Jest. Wyld. Where was your master ?
Sere. I do not remember.
L. C. J. You say yon went out of town tbe
10th, and came home the last of August ; you
say k is impossible that he should say right,
bat yet you do not prove it.
Pru. Tinrre no more to say bat I entered
down all my expences every day in a book,
which boot will shew where I was.
X. C J. Where is your book ?
Prat. At my lodgings in Vere-Street by
Ceteat-Oarden ; in a trunk that came by the
carrier, that will shew when they were sent.
L. C. J. If the cause did turn upon that
natter, I would be well content to sit until
the book was brought; bat I doubt the cause
vfltaot stand upon that foot ) but if that wene
T0UTD.
the case it would do you little good. Observe
what I say to the jury.
My Lord Chief Justice his Speech to the Jury
upon bis summing up of the Evidence.
Gentlemen of tbe jury; my care at this time
shall be to contract this very long evidence,
and to bring it within a short compass, that you
may have nothing before you to consider of,
as near as I can, but what is really material
to the acquitting or condemning of Mr. Cole*
man.
The tilings he is accused of are two sorts ;
the one is, to subvert the Protestant religion
and to introduce Popery : the other was to de-
stroy and kill the king. The evidence likewise
was of two sorts; the one by letters of his
own hand-writing, and the other by Witnesses
viva voce. The former he seems to confess,
the other totally to deny.
For that he cf mfetseth, he does not seem to
insist upon it, that the letters were not his, he
seems to admit they were ; and he rather
makes his defence by expounding what the
meaning of these letters were, than by denying
himself to be the author.
I would have you take me right, when I say '
he doth adroit; he doth not admit tbe con-
struction, that the king's counsel here makes
upon them ; but he admits that these letters
were his. He admits it so far, that he does
not deny them. So that you are to examine
what these letters import in themselves, and
what consequences are naturally to be deduced
from them.
That which is plainly intended, is to bring
in the Roman Catholic, and to subvert the
Protestant Religion. That which is by conse-
quence intended, was the killing the king, as
being the most likely means to introduce that, *
which, as it is apparent by his letters, was de- ,
signed to be brought in.
For the first part of the Evidence. All his
great long letter that he wrote, was to give
the present confessor of the French king an
account of what had passed between him and
his predecessor; by which agency, you may.
see that Mr. Coleman was in with the former
confessor.
And when he comes to give an account of .
the three years transactions to this present
confessor, and to begin a correspondence with
him, about what is it? Why, the substance of
the heads of the long Letter comes to this. It
was to bring in the Catholic as he called it,
(that is) the Romish Catholic religion, and to ,
establish that here ; and to advance an interest
for the French king, be that interest what it
will.
It is true bis letters do not express what sort ,
of interest, neither will I determine : but they
say it was to promote the French king's in* ,
terest, which Mr. Coleman woejt) expound in
some such sort, as may consist with tbe king of
England's and the duke of York's interest.
But this is certain, it was to subvert our reli-
gion, as it is now by law established. This
F
6T) STATE TRIALS, SO Charles II. 1678.— Trial qfEdicard Coleman,
[•«
was the great end thereof, it cannot be denied :
Co promote the interest, I say, of the French
king, and to gain to himself a pension as a
reward of his service, is the contents of his first
long letter, and one or two more concerning
that pension.
His last letters expound more plainly what
was meant by the Frencli king's interest.
u We are" (saith be) " about a great work, no
less than the conversion of three kingdoms,
and the total and titter subversion and sub-
duing of that pestilent heiesy " (that is the Pro*
testant Religion) " which hath reigned so long
in this Northern part of the world ; and for the
doing of which, there never was such great
hopes since our queen Mary's days, as at this
Itmer
' Now this plainly shews, thai our religion was
to be subverted, Popery established, and the
three kingdoms to be converted ; that is, in-
deed, to be brought to confusion. For I say, ,
that when our religion is to be subverted, the'
nation is to be tab verted and destroyed, that is
most apparent : for there could be no hope of
subverting or destroying the Protestant reli-
gion, but by a subversion not conversion of the
three kingdoms. How was it to be done other-
wise t Why, I would have brought this reli-
gion in (says he} by dissolving of the parlia-
ment, I would nave brought it in by an edict
and proclamation of Liberty of Conscience. In
tfcese ways I would have brought it in.
Mr. Coleman knows it is not fit for him to
own the introducing of his religion by the mur-
der of the king, or by a foreign force. The one
'was too black and the other too bloody, to be
owned. And lew people (especially the Eng-
lish) will be brought to save their lives (as he
may do bis) by confession of so bloody and bar*
tarous a thing, as an intention to kill the king,
or of levying 'a war ; which, though it be not a
particular, is a general murder. I say, it was
not convenient for Mr. Coleman, when he seems
to speak something for himself, to give such an
account, how he would have done it ; There-
fore he tells us, be would have done it by the
dissolving of the parliament and by toleration
of religion. Now I would very fain know of
any roan in the world, whether this was not a
very fine and artificial covering of his design for
the subversion of our religion ?
Pray, how can any man think, that the dis-
solving of the parliament could have such a
mighty influence to that purpose ? it is true, he
might imagine it might in some sort contribute
Cowards it : yet it is so doubtful, that he him-
self mistrusts it. For he h sometimes for the
dissolving of the parliament, and other times
not, as appears by his own papers: for which
we are not beholden to him, so much as for
any one, more than what were found by acci-
dent, and produced to the kin;* and council.
But in truth, why should Mr. Coleman believe
that another parliament (if this parliament
were dissolved) should, com ply with Popery;
that is to say, That there should be great hopes
of bringing in of Popery by a new parliament ?
unless he can give me a good reason for tins, f
shall hold it as insignificant and as unlikely to
have that effect, as his other way by a general
toleration. '
And therefore next, Upon what gronnd does
he 'presume this ? I do assure you, that man
does not understand the inclinations of the
English people, or knows rheir tempers, that
thinks, if they were left to themselves and had
their liberty, they would turn Papists. It is
true, there are some amongst us that hnve so
little wit as to turn Fanatics, but there is hardly
any, but have much more wit than to turn
Papists. These are therefore the counterfeit
pretensions of Air. Coleman.
Now, if not by these means, in what way
truly did he intend to bring in Popery ? why,
his own letters plainly convict him of one step
towards it, in endeavouring with foreign powers
to bring in that religion, and to subvert ours.
And for tlie other way of doing it, by killing
the king ; I leave it to you whether there were
any more probable way than that indeed to
do it.
And could he think, that the French king
would not have thought himself cozened of hi*
money, if he had not given him hopes that he
would use the most probable methods that be
could, to effect his design ?
Therefore, there mus-t be more in it : for be
that was so earnest for Unit religion, would not
have stuck at any violence to bring it in; he
would not have stuck at blood. For we know
their doctrines and their practices, and we
know well, with what zeal the priests push
them forward to venture their own lives, and
to take away other mens, that differ from theni,
to bring in their religion, and to set up them-
selves. For indeed in the kingdoms and coun-
tries where Popery reigns, the priests have do-
minion oier men's consciences, and power
over their purses. And they use all arts ima-
ginable of making proselytes, and take special
care, that those in their communion shall
know no more than the priests shall give them
leave to understand. And for this reason they
prohibit the use of all books without their li-
cence. This blind obedience begets blind ig-
norance, and this is a great subtilty of theirs
to keep, them in it, that they may perfectly
submit to tbem.
What, cannot they command, when they
have made others slaves in their understand-
ings, and that they must know no more, than
what; they give them leave to know ? but irv
Borland it is not so, RTr. Coleman ; and
therein yon would have found a great disap-
pointment. For if liberty of conscience had
been tolerated here, that the consequence of it
would have been Popery, I deuy.
Nothing is more unlikely ; for though in the
short reign of queen Mary, Popery came in
for some time, which was but for a 'little- time.
and then the people wcie not so well grounded
in the Protestant religion, nor in the principle*
of it t but now they are, insomuch, that scarce
a colter but u able to oaffle any Komaa
»3
STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles il. l67bWfr High 'IrraKm,
tm
prist feat ever I saw or met with. And thanks
be tr* God we have a preaching ministry, and
the free use of the Scriptures allowed amongst
os, which they are not permitted to have.
And alter this I wonder, that a man, who hath
been bred up in the Protestant religion (as I
ba\e reason to believe that you Mr. Coleman
h i\-e been,) for (if I am not misinformed; your
iuhcr » as a minister in Suffolk; for such an
r*ne to depart from it, is an evidence Against
you, to t prove the Indictment. I must make a
duT^reace between us, and those who hate
been always educated that way, and so are
under the prepasbessiou of their education,
which is a d.Sicak thing to he overcome.
And I do assure you, there are hut two
things, that I know of, can make one do it,
iorerest, or gross ignorance. No roan of uu-
cier&taDdicg, but for by-ends, would have led
Lis religion to he a Papist. And for you, Mr.
Coleman, who are a man of reason and sub-
lilt?, I must tell you (to bring this to your-
sell*) upon this account, that it could not be
cos^cietice, I cannot thiuk it to be conscience.
Yccr pension was your conscience, and your
Secretary's place your bait.
For such men (Isav) as have been bred up
in the Protestant religion, and left it, I can
lordly presume that they do it out of con-
science, unless they do it upon a mighty search,
not leaning upon their own understanding and
abilities, not hearing of one side alone. Con-
science ii a tender thing, conscience will trem-
ble when it leaves the religion it has been bred
is, and its sincerity is shown by being fearful,
lest it &hould be in the wrong. No man may
pretend to conscience truly, that takes not all
cowses imaginable to know the right, before
be lets Lis religion slip from him.
Have we so soon forgot our reverence to the
late king, and the pious advice he left us ? A
king chat was truly a Defender of the Faith, not
only by his title, but by his abilities and writings.
A king, who understood the Protestant religion
so well, that be was able to defend it against
any of the cardinals of Rome. And when he
knew it so thoroughly, and died so eminently
for it, I will leave this characteristic*! note,
That whosoever after that departs from liis judg-
ment, had need have a very good one of his
own, to boar him out.
I do acknowledge, many of the popish
priests formerly were learned men, and may he
so soil, beyond the seat : but I could never
yet meet with any here, that bad other learning
er ability bat artificial only, to delude weak
women, and weaker men. They have, indeed,
ways of conversion, and conviction, by en-
lightening our understandings with a raggot,
and by the powerful and irresistible arguments
ef a daggers But these are such wicked sole-
cisms in their religion, that they seem to have
left them neither natural sense, nor natural
conscience, not natural sense, by their ab-
asrdtty, in so unreasonable a belief, as of the'
wine turned into blood: Not natural con*
tnence, be their cruelty, who make the Pfcotes-
tanls blood as wine, and these priests (hirst
after it ; ' Tantum religio pctuit suadere luulo-
' rum ?'
Mr. Coleman, in one of his letters, speaks of
routing out ' our religion and party ;' And lie
is in the right, for they can never root out the
Protestant religion, but they must kill the Pro-
testants. But let him and them know, if ever
they shall endeavour to bring popery in, by de*
stroking of the kine, they shall find, that the
papists will thereby bring destruction upon
themselves, so that not a man of them would
escape—' Ne Catulus quidem relinquendus.'
Our execution shall be as quick as their gun-
powder, but more effectual. And so, gentle-
men, I khall leave it to you, to consider, what
his Letters prove him guilty of directly, and
what by consequence ; What he plainly would
have done, and then, how he would have done
it; And whether you think his fiery seal had
so much cold blood in jt, as to spare any
others? For the other part of the Evidence,
which is by the testimony of the present wit-
nesses, yoj have heard them. I will not de»
tain you longer now, the day is going out.
Mr. J. Jones. You must find the prisoner
guilty, or bring in two persons perjured. -
L. C. J. - Gentlemen, If your consultation *
shall be long, then you must lie by it all night,
and we will take your verdict to-morrow
morning. If it will not be long, I am content
to stay a while.
Jury. My lord, we shall be short* x
J. Wyld. We do not speak to you to make
more haste, or less, but to take a lull consulta-
tion, and your own time; There is the death
of a man at the stake, and make not too much
haste. We do not s^peak it on that account.
The Jury went from the bar, and returned.
Court. Are you all agreed of your verdict?
Jury. Yes.
Court, Who shall speak for you?
Jury. The foreman.
Court. Edward Coleman, hold up thy band r
Court. Is Edward Coleman Guilty of the
high-treason whereof be stands indicted, or
Not Guilty }—Jury. Guilty, my lord.
Court. What goods, chattels, fee.
Prisoner. You were pleased to say to the jury,
that they must either bring me in Guilty, or
two persons perjured ; I am a dying man, and
upon my death, and expectation of salvation,
declare, That I never saw these two gentlemen,
excepting Mr. Oates, but once in all my life,
and that was at the council table.
L. C. J. Mr. Coleman, your own papers
are enough to condemn you.
Court. Cant. Richardson, you must bring
Mr. Coleman hither again to-morrow morning
to receive his Sentence.
The Day following being November the 98th,
Mr. Coleman was brought to the Bar, to
receive his Sentence, and the Court pro-
ceeded thereupon as followeth :
L. C. J. Ask him what he can say for him*
self; Make silence, crier*
71 ] STATE TRIAU5, SO Charles II. 1 07 8.— Trial of Edward Coleman, ' [73
CI. ofCr. Edward Coleman, hold up thy
hand. Thou hast been indicted of high trea-
son, thou hast thereunto pleaded Not Guilty ;
thou hast put thyself upon God and thy coun-
try, which country hath found thee Guilty ;
What canst thou . say for thyself, wherefore
judgment of death should not be given against
thee, and an execution awarded according to
law?
Mr. Coleman, May it please you, my lord,
I have this to say for inyseli ; As for my papers,
I humbly hope, (setting aside Oral Testimony)
that I should not have been found guilty of
any crime in them, but what the act of grace
would have pardoned, and I hope I shall have
the benefit of that; The evidence against me,
namely Oral, I do humbly beg that you would
he pleased to give me a little time to shew you,
how impossible it is that those testimonies
should be true ; For that testimony of Mr.
Oates io August, my man, that is now either in
the court or hall, hath gotten a book that is
able to make it appear, that I was out of town
from the 15th of August to the 3 1st of August
late at night.
L. C. J. That will not do, Mr. Coleman.
Coleman. I p!o humbly offer this, for this
reason ; because Mr. Oates, in all hit other evi-
dences, was so punctual, as to distinguish be-
tween Old Stile and New, he ntver missed tlie
month, hardly the week, and oftentimes put the
very day ; for his testimony that he gave against
me, was, that it was the 21st of August.
L. C. J. He thought so, but he was not po-
sitive, but only as to the month.
Coleman. He was certain it was the latter
end of August, and that about Bartholomew-
tide.
L. C. J. He conceived so, he thought so.
Coleman. Now if I was always out of town
from the 15th day of August, to the 31st late at
night, it is then impossible, my lord, that should
he a true testimony. Your lordship was pleased
to observe, that it would much enervate any
man's testimony, to the whole, if he could be
proved false in any one thing. I have further
in this matter to say, besides my tuan's testi-
mony, the- king hatb, since I have been seized
on, seized on my papers and my book of ac-
counts, where I used punctually to set down
where I spent my money ; and if it doth not
appear by that book that I was all those days
and times, and several other days in August,
to he out of town, I desire no favour. You
cannot suppose, my lord, nor the world be-
lieve, that 1 prepared that book for this purpose
in this matter ; and I can make it appear by
others, if I had time ; but I only offer this to
your lordship, that seeing Mr. Oates did name
so many particulars and circumstances, it is
very strange, that lie should fail in a particular
of such importance as about killing the king;
and no map living of common sense would think
or believe that I should speak about such a
thing in company that 1 did not well know, and
this to he done frequently and oftentimes, as he
asserts it; when Gates seemed u> the king and
council (and I believe the king himself remem-
ber* it) when I was examined, that he did not
know me, that he knew nothing of me, so that
here is two things againn this witness that can
hardly happen again. — My circumstances aro
extraordinary, and it is a great providence, and
I think your lordship and the whole world will
look upon it as such, if <for any crimes that are
in my papers, if there be any mercy to be shew-
ed me by the king's gracious act of pardon, I
humbly beg that I may have it.
L. C. J. None.
Colanan. If none, I do humbly submit ; but
I do humbly hope with submission, that those
papers would not have uecn found treasonable
papers.
L. C. J. Those letters of yours, Mr. Cole-
man, were since the act of pardon ; yolir papers
bear date 1674, 1675, and thpre hath been no
act since. But as for what you say concerning
Mr. Oates, you say it in vain now, Mr. Cole-
man, for the jury hath given in their verdict,
and it is not now to be said, for after that rate
we shall have no end of any man's trial ; but
for your satisfaction, Mr. Coleman, to the best
of my remembrance, Mr. Oates was positive
only as to the month of August, he thought it
might be about the 21st day, or about Bartholo-
mew fair time ; but he was absolute iu nothing
but the month.
Colt man. He was punctual in all his other
evidences, but in this he was not ; and when I
was examined at the council table, he said he
knew little of me.
L. C. J. He charged you positively for hav-
ing held conspiracy to poison the king ; and
that there was 10,000/. to be paid for ir, and
afterwards there was 5,000/. more to be added ;
and he positively charges you to be the person
that amongst all the conspirators was reputed
to pay the 5,000/.
Coleman. He said it after such a fashion.
L. C. J. He said it after such a fashion that
sir Robert Southwell and sir Thomas Doleman
satisfied us that he did the thing, and that
plainly to his understanding; and what say yon
he said r - >
Coleman. That he did not know me.
L. C. J. Neither of them say so, that be
said he did not know you, they deny it.
Coleman. lie said so, upon my death.
L. C. J. It is in vain to dispute it further,
there must be an end.
Crier, make O Yes ! Our sovereign lord the
king doth straitly charge and command all per-
sons to keep stleuce while Judgment is given
upon the prisoner convict, upon pain of impri-
sonment.
L. C. J. You are found guilty, Mr. Cole-
man, of high treason, and .the crimes are seve-
ral that you are found guilty of. You are found
guilty of conspiring the death of the king ; you
are likewise found guilty of endeavouring to
Subvert the Protestant religion as it is by law
established, and to bring in popery, and this by
the aid and assistance of foreign powers. And
I would not have you, Mr. Coleman, in your
«1
STATE TRIALS, 50 Charles II. 1678.— /or High Treason.
[74
list apprehension of things, to go out of the
-world with a mistake, if I could help it ; that is,
I would oot have you think, that though you
only seem to disavow the matter of the death
of the king, that therefore you should think
yourself an innocent man. You are not ieno-
cent, I am sure; for it is apparent by that
which cannot deceive, that you are guilty of
contriving and conspiring the destruction of the
Protestant religion, and to bring in Popery, and
that by the aid and assistance of foreign powers,
and this no man can free you in the least from.
And know, that if it should he true, that you
woeld disavow, that you had not an actual hand
» the contrivance of the king's death (which
two witnesses have sworn positively against
yoO: Yet be that will subvert the Protestant
rdi^'on here, and bring in consequently a fo-
reign authority, does an act in derogation of the
cro*r., and in diminution of the king's title and
f-'.erci^n j>ov*er, and endeavours to bring a fo-
reign dominion both over our consciences and
estates. And is any man shall Endeavour to
subvert our region to bring in that, though he
did not actoallv contrive to do it l>v the death
0
of the king, or it may be not by the death of any
oce man, yet whatsoever follows upon that
contrivance, be is guilty of; insomuch it is
greatly t> be feared, that though you meant
oniv to bring it iu by the way of dissolving of
pari taments, or by liberty of conscience, and
»ch ki.:d or innocent ways as you thought;
yet if so I c those means should not have proved
effectual, and worse should have been taken
(though by others of your confederates) for to
go through with the work, as we have great
reason to believe there would, you are guilty
of all that blood that would have followed.
But still yoa say you did not design that
thing ; but to tell you, he that doth a
sinfafc and unlawful act, must answer, and is
liable butti to God and man, for all the con-
sequences that attend it, therefore I say you
ought not to think yourself innocent. It is
pucnbJe yoa may be penitent, and nothing re-
mams bit that. And as I think in your church
you allow of a thing called attrition, if yon can-
not with our church have contrition, which is
a sorrow proceeding from love, pray make use
of attrition, which is a sorrow arising from fear.
For yoa may assure yourself, there are hut a
few moments betwixt you and a vast eternity
where will be no dallying, no arts to be used,
therefore tfeinfc on all the good you can do in
tins little apace of time that is left you ; all is
little enough to wipe off (besides your private
aod secret offences) even your public pues. 1
do know that confession is very much owned in
your church, and you do well in it ; but as your
offence is public, so should your confession be;
md it will do you more service than all your
aoricoJar confessions. Were I in your case,
there should be nothing at the bottom of my
heart that I would not disclose. Perchance
yau may be deluded with the fond hopes of
baring your sentence respited. Trust not to
it, Mr. Coleman. You may be flattered to
stop your mouth, till they have stopped your
breath, and I doubt you will find that to be the
event. I think it becomes yo«i as a man, and as
a christian, to do all that is now in your power,
since you cannot be white, to make yourself as
clean as you can, and to fit yourself for another
world, where you will see how vain all resolu-
tions of obstinacy, of concealment, and all that
sort of bravery which perhaps may be instilled
by some men, will prove. They will not then
serve to lessen, hut they will add to your fault.
It concerns us no farther than for your own good,
and do as God shall direct yon ; for the truth is,
there are persuasions and inducements in your
church to such kind of resolutions and such kind
of actious, which you are Jed into by false
principles and false doctrines (and so you will
find when you come once to experiment it, as
shortly you will) that hardly the religion of a
Turk would own. But when Christians by any
violent bloody act attempt to propagate religion,
they abuse both their disciples and religion too,
aod change that way that Christ himself taught
us to follow him by. It was not by blood or
violence; by no single man's undertaking to dis-
turb and to alter governments ; to make hurly-
burhes, and all the mischiefs that attend soch
things as these are.
For a church to persuade men even to the
committing of the highest violences under a
pretence of doing God good service, looks not
(in my opinion) like religion, but design ; like
an engine, not a holy institution; artificial as
a clock, which follows not the sun but the set*
ter ; goes not according to the bible, but the
priest, whose interpretations serve their par-
ticular ends, and those private advantages
which true religion, would scorn, and natural
religion itself would not endure. I have, Mr.
Coleman, said thus much to you as you are a
christian, and as 1 am one, and I do it out of
great charity and compassion, nnd with great
sense and sorrow that you should be misled to
these great offences under pretence of religion.
But seeing you have but a little time, 1 would
have you make use of it to your best advan-
tage ; for I tell you, that though death may be
talked of at a distance in a brave heroic way,
yet when a man once comes*, to the minute,
death is a very serious thing; then you will
consider how trifling all plots and contrivances
are, and to how little purpose is all your con-
cealments. I only oner these things to your
thoughts, and perhaps they may better godown
at such n time as this is than at another ; and
if they have no effect upon you, I hope they
will have some as to my own paiticular, iu that
I have done my good will. I do remember
you once more, that in this mutter you be out
deluded with any fantastic hopes and expecta-
tions of a pardorf, for the truth is, Mr. Cole-
man, you will be deceived ; therefore set yoor
heart at rest, for we are at this time in such dis-
orders, and the people so continually alarmed
either with secret m orders, or some outrages
and violences that are this day on foot, that
though the king, who is foil of mercy almost
75] STATE T&iALS, 30 Charles 1L
to a Aiuit, yet if lie should be inclined that way
I ?eri!y believe both Houses would interpose
between that and you. I speak cliis to shake
off all vain hopes from you ; for I tell you, I
verily believe they would not you should have
any twig to hold by to deceive you : so that now
you may look upon it, there is nothing will
save you, for you will assuredly die as now you
Kve, and that very suddenly. ^ In which I hav-
ing discharged my conscience to you as a
christian, I will now proceed lo pronounce Sen-
tence against you, and do my duty as a judge.
You shall return to prison, from theuce to
be drawn to the place of execution, where you
shall he hanged by the neck, and be cut down
alive, your bowels burnt before your face, and
your quarters severed, and your body disposed
of as the king thinks fit ; and so the Lord have
mercy upon your soul.
Coleman. My lord, I humbly thank your
lordship, and I do admire your charity, that
you would be pleased to give me this admirable
counsel, and I will follow it as well as I can,
and £ beg your lordship to hear me what I am
going to say: Your lordship, most chiibUun-
like, hatb observed wisdv, that concession is
extremely necessary to a dying man, and I do
so too; but that confession your lordship I
suppose means, is of a guilty evil conscience
in any of these points that I am condemned
for, ' Of* maliciously contriving/ &c. If I
thought I had any such guilt, I should as-
suredly think myself damned now I am going
out of the world by concealing them, in spite of
all pardons or indulgences, or any act that the
Pope or the Church of Home could do for me,
as I believe any one article of faith. Therefore
pray hear the words of a dying man; I have
made a resolution, I thank God, not to tell a
lie, no not a single lie, not to save my life. I
hope God will not so far leave me as to let me
do it ; and I do renounce all manner of mercy
teat God can shew me, if I have not told the
House of Commons, or offered it to the House
of Commons, nil that I know in my whole heart
toward this business ; and I never in all my life
either made any proposition, or received any
proposition, or knew or beard directly or in*
directly of any proposition towards the sup-
planting or invading the king's life, crown or
dignity, or to make any invasion or disturbance
to introduce any new government, or to bring
in popery by any violence or force in the world;
if I have, my lord, been mistaken in my me-
thod, as I will not say but I might have been ;
for if two men differ, one must be mistaken ;
therefore possibly I might be of an opinion,
that popery might come in if liberty of con-
science had been granted; and perhaps all
Christians are bound to wish all people of chat
religion that they profess themselves, if they
are in earnest : 1 will not dispute those ills that
your lordship may imagiue to be in the Church
of Rome; if I thought there was any in them, I
would be sure to be none of it. I have no de-
sign, my lord, at all in religion but to be saved;
and I had do manner of invitation to invite me
7
167S.— TYial qf Edward Coleman,
[76
| to the Church of Rome, no not one, but to be
saved ; ii I am out of tne way, I am out of the
way, as to the next world as well as this; I have
nothing but a sincere conscience, and I desire
to follow it as I ought. I do confess I am
guilty of many crime*, and I am afraid all of
us arc guilty in some measure, of some failings
and infirmities ; but in matters of this nature
that 1 now stand condemned for, though I do
not at all complain of the court; for I do con-
fess I have had all the fair play imaginable, and
I have nothing at all to say against it; but I
say as to any one act of mine, so far as acts
require intention to make them acts, as all hu-
man acts do, I am as innocent of any crime
that I now stand charged as guilty of, as vtfien
I was first born.
L. C. J. That is not possible.
Coleman. With submission, I do not say in-
nocent as to any drime in going against any
act of parliament, then it is a crime to hear
mass, or to do any act that they prohibit; but
for ii.t£ndiu;i aud endeavouring to bring in that
religion by the aid and assistance of the king
of France, I never intended nor meant by that
aid and assistance, any force in the world, bat
such aids and assistances as might procure us
liberty of conscience. My lord, if in what I
have said nobody believes, me, I must be con*
tent ; if any do believe me, then I have wiped
off those scandalous thoughts and abominable
crimes, that, &c and then I have paid a little
debt to truth.
L. C. J. One word more, and I have done.
I am sorry, Mr. Coleman, that I have not
charity enough to believe the words of a dying
man ; for I will tell you what sticks with me
very much : I cannot be persuaded, and no-
body can, but that your Correspondence and
Negociations did continue longer than the Let*
ters that we have found, that is, after 1675.
Now if you had come and shown us your Books
and Letters, which would have spoke for them-
selves, .1 should have tliought then that yon
had dealt plainly and sincerely, and it would
have been a mighty motive to have believed
the rest; for certainly your correspondence
held even to the time of your appreliensioss,
and yon have not discovered so much as one
paper, but what was found unknown to you,
and against your will.
Coleman. Upon the words of a dying man,
and upon the expectation 1 have of salvation,
I tell your lordship, that there is not a book nor
a paper in the world that I have laid aside
voluntarily.
X. C. X- No, prrhaos you have burnt them.
Coleman. Not by tne living God.
L. C. J. I hope, Mr. Coleman, you will not
say no maimer of way.
Colzman. For my correspondence these two
last years past, I have given an (account of
every letter ; but those that were common let*
ters, and those books that were in my house,
what became of them I know not ; they were
common letters that I used to write every day,
a common journal what put at home and
STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1078.— /or High Treason.
abroad. My men they writ there out of that
book.
L.CJ. What became of those letters ?
Coleman. I h-H no letters about this bosi-
aess, but wbatl have declared to the House of
Commons, that is, letters from St. Germans,
which I owned to the Hoose of Commons; and
I had no methodical correspondence, and I
sever valued them nor regarded them, but as.
they came 1 destroyed tbem.
L.C.J. I remember the last letter that is
ptea is evidence against you, discovers what
mighty hopes there was, tbat tbe time was now
come wherein that pestilent heresy, that bath
domineered in this northern part of the world,
should be extirpated ; and that there never was
greater hopes o£ it since our queen Mary's
icigs. Pray, Mr. Coleman, was that the con-
doling letter in this affair ?
Coimnn. Give me leave to say it upon the
word of a dying man, I have not one letter, &c
JL C.J. What though you burnt your let-
tea, you may recollect the contents.
Cocoa*. I had none since —
X. C J. Between God and your conscience
be it, I have other apprehensions; and you
deserve your Sentence upon you for your of-
feaoes, that visibly appear out of your own
papers, that you do not, and cannot deny.
Coleman. ' I as ftatisfied. But seeing my
b hot sliortv may I npt be permitted to
some immediate friends, and my poor
wife to have her freedom to speak with me,
aad stay with me that little time that I have,
that I might speak something to her in order
to her living and my dying ?
L. C. J. You say well, and it is a hard case
to deny it; but I tell you what hardens, my
heart, the insolencics of your party (tbe Roman
Catholics I mean) that they every day offer,
which » indeed a proof of their Plot, that they
are so bold and impudent, and such secret
sunders committed by them, as would harden
any man's heart to do the common favours of
justice and charity, that to mankind are usually
done : they are so hold and insolent, that I
think it is not to be endured in a Protestant
kingdom ; but for my own particular, I think
it a a very bard thing for to deny a man the
of hi* wife, and his friends, so it be
done with caution and prudence. Remember
that the Plot is on foot, and I do not know
what arts the priests have, and what tricks
thty use ; and therefore have a care that no
papers, nor any such thing, be sent from him.
Coleman. I do not design it, I am sure.
X. C. J. But for the company of his wife
and his near friends; or any thing in that kind,
that may be for his eternal good, and as much
for bis present satisfaction that he can receive
now in the condition that he is in, let him have
it; but do it with care and caution.
Capt. Richardson. What, for them to be
private alone ?
L. C. J. His wife, only she, God forbid else.
Nor shall you he denied any Protestant minister.
Coleman. But shall not my cousin Coleman
have liberty to come to me?
X. C. J. Yes, with Mr. Richardson.
Coleman. Or his servant; because' it is a
great trouble for him to attend always.
X. C J. If it be his servant, or any he shall
appoint, it is all one. Mr. Richardson, use
bim as reasonably as may be, considering the
condition he is in.
Cler. Cr. Have a care of your prisoner.
On Tuesday the 3d of December following,
Edward Coleman was drawn on a sledge frpm
Newgate to Tyburn ; and being come thither,
he declared that he had been a Roman Catho-
lic for many years, and that he thanked God
he died in that religion, and he did not think
that religion at all prejudicial to the king and
government.
The Sheriff told him, if he had any thing to
say by way of confession or contrition, he might
proceed, otherwise it was not seasonable for
aim to go on with such like expressions. Being
asked if he kpew any thing of the murder of
sir Edmund. Godfrey, he declared upon the
words of a dying man, he knew not arty thing
of it, for that he was a prisoner at that time.
Then after some private prayers and ejacula-
tions to himself, the sentence was executed.
He had been made to believe, that he should
have a pardon, which he depended on with so
much assurance, that a little before lie was
turned off, finding himself deceived, he was
heard to say, ' There is no faith in man/
79] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1 678.^7>w/ of Ireland, Pickering, [80
245. The Trial of William Ireland, Thomas Pickering,
and John Grove, at the Old Bailey, for High Treason:
30 Charles II. a.d. 1678*
ON Tuesday the 17th day of December, 1678,
Thomas White alias Whitebread, Win. Ireland,
John Fen wick, Thomas Pickering and John
Grove, were brought from his majesty's gaol of
Newgate to the Sessions-house at Justice-Hall
in the Old Bailey, being there indicted for High
Treason, for contriving and conspiring to mur-
der the king, to receive their trial ; and the
Court proceeded thereupon as fulloweth:
The Court being sat, proclamation was made
for attendance, thus :
Clerk of Crown, Crier, make proclamation.
(frier. O yes, O yes, O yes ! All manner of
persons that have any thing to do at this gene-
ral sessions of the peace, sessions of Oyer and
Terminer holden for the city of London, and
gaol-delivery of Newgate, holden for the city of
London and county of Middlesex, draw near
and give your attendauce, for now the Court
will proceed to the pleas of the crown for the
same city and county. God save the king.
Cl.ofCr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crier. O yes ! All manner of persons are
commanded to keep silence upon pain of impri-
sonment. Peace about the Court.
CLofCr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crier. O yes ! You good men of the county
of Middlesex that are summoned to appear
here this day, to enquire between our sovereign
lord the king and the prisoners that are and
shall be at the bar, answer to your names as you
shall be called, every one at the first call, and
save your issues.
The Jurors being called and the defaulters
recorded, the Clerk of the Crown called for the
prisoners to the bar, viz. Thomas White alias
Whitebread, William Ireland, John Fen wick,
Tho. Pickering and John Grove, and arraigned
them thus :
CI. of Cr. Thomas White alias White-
bread, hold up thy hand : Which he did. Wil-
liam Ireland, hold up tby hand : Which he did.
John Fenwick, hold up thy hand : Which he
* From a pamphlet, intitled : " The Trials
of William Ireland, Thomas Pickering, and
John Grove; for conspiring to Murder the
King: who upon full evidence were found
Guilty of High Treason, at the Sessions-House
in the Old Bailey, December 17, 1678. And
received Sentence accordingly. London, print-
ed for Robert Pawlet at the Bible in Chancery-
lane, near Fleet-street, 1678. ' December 17,
* 1678. I do appoint Robert Pawlet to print
< the Trials of William Ireland, Thomas Picker-
* iog, and John Grove : And that no other
' person presume to print the same. William
•Scrooos.'"
* See the Introduction to the Trials for the
Popish Plot; ante, vol. 6, p* J430.
did. Thomas Pickering, hold up thy hand :
Which he did/ John Grove, hold up thy hand :
Which he did.
You stand indicted by the names of Thomas
White alias Whitebread, hue of the parish of
St. Giles in the fields, in the county of Middle-
sex, clerk : William Ireland, late of the same
parish and county, clerk : John Fenwick, late
of rhe same parish and county, clerk : Thomas
Pickering, late of the same parish aud county,
clerk : and John Grove, late of the same parish
and county, gent. For that you five, as false
traitors, &c. against the peace of our sovereign
lord the king, his crown and dignity, and
against the form of the statute in that case
made and provided. How sayest thou, Thomas
White alias Whitebread, art thou Guilty of this
High Treason whereof thou standest indicted,
or Not Guilty ?
Whitebread. Not Guilty.
CI. of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Whitebread. By God and ray Country.
CL of Cr. God send thee a good delirer-
ance. How sayest thou, William Ireland, art
thou Guilty of the same High Treason, or Not
Guilty ?
Ireland. Not Guilty.
CL of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Ireland. By God and my Country.
CI. of Cr. God seud thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thou, John Fen wick, art
thou Guilty of the same High Treason, or Not
Guilty ?
Fenwick. Not Guilty.
Cl.ofCr. Culprit, how wilt thou he trie'd ?
Fenwick. By God and my Country.
CI. of Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thou, Thomas Pickering, art
thou Guilty of the same High Treason, or Not
Guilty ?
Pickering. Not Guilty.
CL ofCr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Pickering. By God and my Country.
CL of Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thou, John Grove, art
thou Guilty of the same High Treason, or Not
Guilty?
Grove. Not Guilty.
CL of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Grove. By God aud my Country.
CL of Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. You the prisoners at the bar, those men
that you shall hear called and do personally
appear, are to pass between our sovereign lord
the king and you, upon trial of your several
lives and deaths ; if therefore you or any of
you will challenge them or any of them, your
time is to speak unto them as they come to the
book Co be sworn, before they be sworn. Sir-
Philip Matthews to the book.
SI] STATE TRIALS; SO CaUium II. 107*— earf Grim, Jot High 7V*n*s*. [Si
Sir Phim Mmltktm*. I desire shr William
Boberts may be called first. Which was
CL if Cr. Sir William Roberts to the
look. Look -upon the prisoners. Yoo shall
well and truly try, and true deliverance make
between oar sovereigu lord the king and the
prisoners at the bar, whom yoo shall have in
toot coarse* according to your evidence. So
help you Dud.
The same oath was administered to the rest,
the prisoners challenging node, and their names
in order were thus : Sir William Roberts, hf. ;
sir Philip Matthews, bt. ; sir Charles Lee, kt. ;
Edward Wiltord, esq.; John Foster, esq.;
Joshua Gailiard, esq. ; John Byfield, esq. ;
Thomas Erieaeeld, esq. ; Too. Johnson, esq. ;
John Putford, esq.; Thomas Earnesby, esq. ;
Richard Wheeler, gent.
CL tf Cr9 Crier, count these. Sir William
Crier. One, otc.
CL •/ Cr. Richard Wheeler.
Crier. Twelve good men and true, stand
together and hear your evidence. -
CL ofCr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crier. O yes ! If any one can inform my
Lords the king's Justices, the king's Serjeant,
the king's Attorney, or this Inqnest now to be
taken between oor sovereign lord the king and
the prisoners at the bar, let -them come forth
and they shall be heard, for now the prisoners
stand at the bar upon their deliverance : and
all others that are bound by recognizance to
give evidence against any of the prisoners at
the bar, let them come forth and give their
evidence, or else they forfeit their recognis-
ance. And all jurymen of Middlesex that
have been summoned and have -appeared, and
, may depart the court and lake
CL a/ Cr. Make proclamation of silence.
Crier. O yes ! All manner of persons are
' to keep silence, upon pain of im-
CL <f Cr. Thomas White alias Whitebread,
hold eptby band: Which he did, and so of the
You that are sworn, look upon the pri-
aod hearken to their cause.
Yoo shall understand, that they stand in*
by the names of Thomas White other-
Whitebread, late of the parish of St.
Goes in the Fields m the county of Middlesex,
dark; William Ireland, late of the same pa-
risk in the county aforesaid, clerk ; John
Fenwick, fete of the same parish in the coun-
ty aastetaid, clerk; Thomas Pickering, late of
thoseine Parish in the county aforesaid, clerk ;
sad John Grove, late of the tame parish in the
county aforesaid, gentleman : For tliat they as
fosse traitors of the most illustrious, serene, and
most excellent prince, our sovereign lord
Charles 3, by the grace of God of England,
Scotland, France, and Ireland, king, defender
af the faith, Sic. theirs supreme and natural
lord, not having the fear of God in their hearts,
tor the duty of their allegiance any ways
tot. Til,
weighing, but being moved and seduced by
the Mitigation of the devil, the cordial love,
and tree, due, and natural obedience, which
true and faithful subjects of our said sovereign
lord the king towards our said sovereign lord
the king should and of right ought to bear,, al-
together withdrawing, and endeavouring, and
with their whole strength intending, Che peace
and common tranquillity of this kingdom of
England to disturb, and the true worship of
God within this kingdom of England used, and
by law established; to overthrow ; and to move,
stir up, and procure rebellion .within this king-
dom of England, and the cordial love, and true
and due obedience, which true and faithful
•objects of our said sovereign lard the king
toward our said sovereign lord the king should
and of right ought to bear, wholly to. withdraw,
vanquish, and extinguish, and our said sove-
reign lord the king to death and final destruc-
tion to bring and put, the 24th day of April, in
the year of the reign of our said sovereign ford
Charles «, by the grace of God of England, Scot-
land, France, and Ireland, king, defender of the
Faith, etc. the 30th, at the parish of St. Giles
in the Fields aforesaid, in the county of Mid-
dlesex aforesaid, falsely, maliciously, deceit-
folly, advisedly, and traitorously, they did
propose, compass, imagine, and iotend to stir
up, move, and procure sedition and rebellion
within this kingdom of England, and -to procure
and cause a miserable slaughter among the sub*
jects of our said sovereign lord the king, and
wholly to deprive, depose, throw down, and
disinherit our said sovereign lord the king from
his royal state, title, power, and government
of this his kingdom of England, and him our
said sovereign lord the king to put to death, and
utterly to destroy, and the government of this
kingdom of England, and the sincere religion
and worship of God in the same kingdom,
rightly and by the laws of the same kingdom
established, for their will and pleasure to
change and alter, and wholly to subvert and
destroy the state of the whole kingdom, being
in all parts thereof well instituted and ordered,
^and to levy war against oor said sovereign lord
the king within this bis realm of England: And
' to fulfil and bring to pass these their most wick-
ed treasons and traitorous designs and pur-
poses aforesaid, they the said Thomas White
otherwise Whitebread, William Ireland, John
Fen wick, Thomas Pickering, and John Grove,
and other faUe traitors unknown, the said 34th
day of April, in the said 30th year of the reign'
of our said lord the kins;, with force and arms,
etc. at the parish of St. Giles in the Fields
aforesaid, in the county of Middlesex afore-
said, falsly, maliciously, deceitfully, advisedly,*
devilishly, and traitorously did assemble, unite,'
and gather themselves together, and then and
there falsly, maliciously, deceitfully, advisedly,
devilishly, and traitorously they did consult and
agree to put and bring our said sovereign lord
the king to death and final destruction, and to
alter and change the religion rightly and by the
laws of the ssme kingdom established, to the
G
88] STATE TRIALS, SO Cnaaxw IL \6n~Trml tf Ircl**L Pickering. [tt
superstition of die ebureb of Bom« ;, and the
sooner to .bring to pass and accomplish tho
tame their moat wicked treasons ami traitorous
imaginations and purposes aforesaid, they the
said Thomas White otherwise Whitebread,
William Ireland, John Fen wick, Thomas
Pickering, John Grove, and other fake trait
tors of oar said sovereign lord the king un-
known, afterwards (to wit) the said 24th day of
April, in the said 30th year of the roign of out
said sovereign lord the king, at the said parish
of St. Giles in the Fields, in the county ot Mid*
dleaex aforesaid, falsely, deceitfully, advisedly,
maliciously, devilishly, and traitorously they did
consult and agree, that they the said Thomas
Pickering and John Grove should kill and mur-
der our said sovereign lord the king : And that
they the said Thomas White otherwise White-
bread, William Ireland, John Feowick, and
other false traitors unknown, should therefore
say, celebrate, and perform a certain number
of masses (then and there agreed on among
them) for the good of the soul of the said Tho-
mas Pickering, and should therefore -pay to the
said John Grove a certain sum of money (then
and there also agreed on among them) : And
furthers that the said Thomas Pickering and
John Grove upon the agreement aforesaid, then
and there falsely, deceitfully, advisedly, mali-
ciously, devilishly, and traitorously -did under-
take, and to the said Thomas White otherwise
Whitebread, WiHiam Ireland, John Fen wick,
and other false traitors of our said sovereign
bard the king unknown, then and there falsely,
deceitfully, advisedly, maliciously, devilishly,
and traitorously tbey did then and there pro-
mise, that they, the said Thomas Pickering and
John Grove our said sovereign lord the king
would, kill and murder : And further, that
tbey . the said Thomas White otherwise
Whitebread, William Ireland, John Fen wick,
Tliomas Pickering, and John Grove, and other
faketraitors of oar said sovereign lord the king un-
known, afterwards to wit the .said 24th day of
April,iu the said 30th year of the reign of our said
sovereign lord the king, at the said parish of
St. Giles in the fields in the county of Middle-
sex aforesaid, falsely, decei til oily, advisedly,
maliciously, devilishly, and traitorously, did
severally plight their faith every one to
other ,of them, and did tlwu and there swear
and promise upon the Sacrament, to conceal
and not to divulge their said most wicked trea-
sons, and traitorous compassings, consultations,
and purposes aforesaid, so among them had,
traitorously to kill and murder our said so-
vereign lord the king, and to introduce the
Roman religion, to be used within this king-
dom of England, and to alter and change the
true reformed religion, rightly and by the laws
of this kingdom of England in this same kingdom,
of England established ; And further, that tbey
the said Thomas Pickering and John Grove, in
execution of their said traitorous agreement,
afterwards, to wit, the said 84th day of April,
in the said 30th year of toe reign of our said
sovereign lprd the king, and divers other days
and times afterwards at the said pariah of St.
Giles in the fields and in the said county of
Middlesex, falsely, deceitfully, advisedly, s»«
liciousiy, devilishly, and traitorously, tbey did
prepare and obtain to themselves, and bad and
did keep musquets, pistols, swords* daggers,
and other offensive and cruel weapons and in*
strumenrs, to kill and murder our said sovereign
lord the king ? And that they the said Thomas
Pickering and John Grove afterwards^ to wit,
the said 24th day of April, in the said 86th
year of the reign of our said sovereign lord the
king> and divers days and times afterwards with
force and arms, &c. at the said parish of St.:
Giles in the Fields iu the county of Middlesex
aforesaid, and in other places within the said
county of Middlesex, falsely, deceitfully, ad*
yisedly, maliciously, and traitorously, did lie
in wait, and endeavour to kill and murder ou*
said sovereign lord the king ; and further, that
they the said Thomas White otherwise Wnite-i
bread, William Ireland, John Fenwick, and
other false traitors unknown, afterwards, to wit,
the said «4th dajr of April, in the said 30th
year of tire reign of our said sovereign lord the
king, at the said parish of St. Giles in the Fields,'
in the county ot Middlesex aforesaid, falsely,
deceitfully, advitedly, maliciously, devihahry,
and traitorously, did prepare, persuade, excise,
abet, comfort and counsel four other persona
unknown, and subjects of oar said sovereign-
lord the king, traitorously to- kill and murder
our said sovereign lord the king, against the
duty of their allegiance, against tha peace of our
said sovereign lord the king, bis crown and dig-
nity, and against the form of the etatute in that
behalf made and provided.
Upon this Indictment they hare been arraign-
ed, and thereunto have severally pleaded, Not
Guilty, and for their trisl have put themselves
upon God and their country, which country
you are.
Your charge therefore is to enquire, whether
they or any of them be Guilty of the High-*
Treason whereof they stand indicted, or Not
Guilty. If you find them or any of them
Guilty, yon are to enquire what goods or chat-
tels, lands or tenements, those you find guilty
had at the time of the High-Treason commit-
ted, or at any time since, if you and them or
any of them Not Guilty, you are to enquire
whether they did fly for it : If you find that
they or any of them fled • for it, you ape to en-
quire of their goods and chattels, as if yon bed
found them Guilty. If you find them or any
of them Not Guilty, nor that they nor any of
them fled for it ; say so, and no more, and hear ^
yon r evidence.
Make Proclamation of Silence on bothsidW
Which was done.
Then sir Creswell Levinz, one of the king**
learned counsel in the law, opened the Indict-,
ment thus :
Sir CrtsmtU Levins. May it please your,
lordship, and you gentlemen of the jurjr :
These prisoners at the bar, Thomas White alms
tt] STATE TRIALS* JO CsmiiulUL mt.-+**d Grew, fir High 7W*mw. (M
Whitehead, Witbanv Ireland, John Ftnwiek.
Tnsssns Pk&essog, and John Grove, do ail
stand ■dieted of High-Treason; for that
whereas they, as raise traitors, ateaniag aad
sVngaing to disturb the peace of the kingdom,
to levy war within the kmgdom, to make mi-
serable slaughter against tie king's subjects, to
subvert the religion established by (he lap of
die bad, to introduce (he superstition of- the
caercbof Rope, and to bring (a death aad
final destruction, and to awarder and assnsaiaate
ear sovereign lord the king, thai did, to effect
these things, the £4th of April last assemble
themselves together, with niaay other false
Crartosa jet unknown, in the parish of St
Giles to toe Fields in the county of Middles**,
sad there, being so assembled, the better to
enVct these designs did make agreements and
conspire together ; first, that Picketing and
Grose should kill the king, end that White and
the rest of the persons that stand indicted* with
■any other traitors, should say a great num-
ber ot Meases tor the soul of the said Picker*
iog,I think 3O.000 ; and they did further agree
there, that Grove should have a great sum ef
money ; and upon this agreement Grove and
Pieserrog did ondertake and promise the?
would do this tact, and did then and there take
the Sacrament and an oath to one another upon
sfe Sacrament, that they would conceal these
their treasons, that they might the better effect
these; and that in pursuance ef this, Grove
and Pickering did divers times lie ia wait to
naveer the king, and did provide arms to do it :
And the Indictment further sets forth, that
White and Ireland, aad Feawick, and many
other traitors .yet unknown, did procure four
other persons yet also unknot n, lor to kill the
king, against the peace of our sovereign lord
the long, his crown and dignity, and against the
ef the statute. These are the heads ef
facts for which they stand indicted . They
all pleaded Not Guilt? : If we prove
or any of them Guilty of these or any of
sects, according to the evidence you shall
hope you will find it.
Sir Samuel Baldwin, one of bis majesty's
Serjeants at law, opened the Charge as tot-
Wweth:
Sir Samuel Bsldsri*. May it please your
lordship, aad you gentlemen of the jury, the
asrione bare before you stand indicted of High*
Tic mm ; they are five in number, three of them
are Jesuits, one is a priest, the fifth is a lar-
ssan, persons fitly prepared for the work in
Gentlemen, it is not unknown to most per-
nay to every one amongst us that bath
the least observed the former times, how that
since the reformation there bath been a
carried on to subvert the government,
/destroy the Protestant religion established
herein England; for during all the reign of
snsen Flfff-*'**11 several attempts were made
ay several Priests, and Jesuits, that came
feus* beyond the eejmi>bougk . tie* Jawt were
then sevett against thesn), to destroy the queen
and alter the religion established here ia Eng-
land, and so introduce Popery aad die super-
stition of the Church of Home.
But the conspirators from time to time, dor*
ingall the queen's reign were disappointed, as
Edmund Campion, * and several other Jesuits,
who came over in that time, and were executed,
and did suffer for their treasons according to
law : At length, about the latter end of the
queen's time, a Seminary for the English Je-
suits was founded at VaJiadolid in Spain, and
you know the employment such persons have.
And scon after the queen's death, ia the >be»
ginning of the reign of king James several per*
seas came over into England from this very se*
miliary, who together with one Henry Garnet, i
Superior of the Jesuits then ia England, and
divers others English papists, hatched that hel-
lish Gunpowder* Plot ; whereby what was de-
signed yon all know ; but as it fell out, these
persons, as well as those m queen Elisabeth's
time, were likewise disappointed, and for their
execrable treasons in the 3d veer of king James
were executed at Tyburn and other places.
This is evideat by the very act of parliament
in 3 Jacohi, in the preamble whereof mention
is made that Creswell and Tesmond, Jetuits,
came from Valladolid in Spain to execute this
Gunpowder*Treason with the popish party here
in England.
And, gentlemen, after this treason, so mira-
culously discovered, was punished, one would
not have thought that any future age would
have been guilty of the like conspiracy, ; but it
so foils out, that .the mysterv of Iniquity and
Jesuitism still worketh, for there hath of rate
been a sort of cruel and bloody-minded persons
who, ia hopes to have better success than they
bed in former limes, during the reigns of queen
Elisabeth end king James, have set on foot as
horrid a design as that of the Genpowdarw trea-
son ; I can resemble it to no oilier Plot, or
design, or treason in any other time, and trulv
it does resemble that in many particulars s l
may any, it doth at the least equal k, if not ex-
ceed it.
I shall mention two or three particulars
in which ibis Plot doth resemble that.
1. That horrid design was to take away the
life of the then king, to subvert the government,
to introduce the popish religion, and to destroy
the established Protestant religion in England ;
and so gentlemen, we think our proofs wil
make it out that ia each of these particulars
this design is the same that that was.
9. The great actors in that design worn
Priests and Jesuits that came from Vaiindolid
in 6pain, and other places beyond the seas.
And the great actors in this Plot are priests and
Jesuits, that are come from St. Oroere and
other places beyond the seas nearer home than
Spain.
3. That plot was chiefly guided and mansged
T»-
* See vol. 1, p. 1040, of this Collection,
t See voL 3, p. Sin. .
ft7] STATE TR1AIS, SO CiurUs U. ie7ft.~7ml 0/ IreUmd, Pickering, [89
by Henry Garnet superior find provincial of
the Jesuits then in England ; and the great
actor in this design is Mr. Whitebread, snperior
and provincial of the Jesuits now in England ;
so that I say ia the«e several particulars it does
resemMe the Gunpowder-Plot.
Gentlemen, In this plot, of which the pri-
soners now stand indicted, several persons have
several parts : Some of these persons are era-
ployed to keep correspondence beyond the
seas (of which en ore hath been said in another
place, and so I shall uot speak of it here) : others
were to procure and prepare aid and asistance
hare in England who were to be ready when
there should be occasion to use it. But the
great part that these persons (the prisoners at
the bar) were to act in this conspiracy, was, to
take away the life of our sovereigo lord the
King, on whose preservation the safety and
welfare of three nations (and millions of men)
doth depend. Now the facts for which the five
prisoners stand indicted, I shall open thus c
1. They are here indicted for conspiring the
death of his sacred majesty : they did agree
to take away the king's life ; and entering into
such an agreement, they hired some persons
amongst them to. do it ; and this agreement was
made the 84th of April last 1/J78.
2. There is another fact they likewise stand
indicted for: 'That they did ' endeavour and
contrive to change and alter the religion esta-
blished in the nation, and iutroduce popery in
tlie room of it.' The manner how to effect thist
was thus, if my information be right ; you shall
hear that from the evidence. Mr. Whitebread
being resident here in England, and Superior of
the Jesuits, did in February last think fit (being
lmnowered by authority from Rome) to give
summons to the Jesuits abroad, at St. Omers,
and other places beyond the seas, that they
should come over here into England, to be ready
at London, on the 94th of April, the day laid
in the Indictment, and which ia the day after
6t George's day ; and their design was (as will
appear by the proof) to contrive now they may
take away the life of the king : for if that were
once done, they thought, in all other things,
•heir design would easily be accomplished.
After the Summons were out, they were so offi-
cious for the accomplishing of this great end,
jthat between 40 and 60 Jesuits did appear here
at London at the time (for thither they were
summoned), and there the meeting was ap-
pointed to be. At the White Horse Tavern in
the Strand they were to meet first; but being
so great a number that they were likely to be
taken notice of, if they came all together, it
was so ordered, they should come but a few
at a time and go off in small numbers and
others should succeed them, till the whale
number had been there. And there were
directions, given, and a count taken, that
there should be some person to tell them whi-
ther they should go from thence. After they
had met there at several times in the same day,
they were appointed, and adjourned to be at
several other places; some of them were ap-
pointed, to be at Mr. Whitehead's lodging, and
that was in Wild<6treet, at one Mr .Sanders'*
house ; others were appointed to go to Mr. Ire-
lands*s lodging, which was in Russel-Street (and
this Mr. Ireland was treasurer of the Society) :
and others were to meet at Mr. FenwicVs
chamber in Drury-Lone ; and he was at that
time Procurator and Agent for that Society.
Others were appointed to meet at Harcourt's
lodging ; and others at other places.
When they came there, they all agreed to the
general design of the first meeting, which waa
To kill the king. Then there was a Paper, or
some instrument to be subscribed. This was
done, and the Sacrament was taken for the con-
cealment of it After that, Whitebread, Ire-
land, Fen wick, and others did agree that Mr.
Grove and Mr. Pickering should be employed
to assassinate the king. One of them (Mr.
Grove) being a lay brother, was to have 1,500/.
a great sum ; the other, as a more suitable re-
ward for his pains, was to have 30,000 masses
said for his soul. Mr. Whitebread, Mr. Ire-
land, and Mr. Fenwick, were all privy to this
design; and this was the 94th of April. Ia
August after (they being appointed to kill the
king, but it not taking effect, either their hearts
misgave them, or they wanted opportunity)
there was another meeting at the Savoy, where
the witnesses will tell you, four Irish persons
were hired for to kill the king. And this was
ordered, in case the other design took not effect.
There was fourscore pounds sent down to them
to Windsor, where they were to have done the
met. After this, other persons were appointed
to do the eiecntion, and they were to take
the king at his morning walk at New-Market.
These persons were all disappointed in their
design. But you shall hear what was the
Agreement how it was carried on, and what
rewards were given to carry it on. We shall
acquaint you likewise, that for the bottom of
this design (when so many Jesuits should come
over, when they should have so many consulta-
tions, and when they should resolve to kill the
king) there could be no less than the altering
of Religion, and introduction of Popery here
in England. And that time, at the first meet-
ing, they had ordered, That Mr. Cary a Jesuit,
as their procurator and ageftt, should go to
Rome, to act their concerns there. All which
things and more will be made out to you by
witnesses produced. There are likewise some
other circumstances that will be material to
confirm those witnesses. We shall produce to
you a Letter written in- February last, aboat
that time that Mr. Whitebread sent over his
summons for the Jesuits to appear here. This
Letter was written by one Mr. Peters, a Jesuit
now in custody ; and now it is written to one
Tunstal, a Jesuit, to give ssjn notice, That be
should be in London about the 91st of April,
and be ready on the 24th of April : That be
knew what the business was ; but he did advise
him, that he sliould conceal himself, lest the
Plot (by observation) should be discovered.
We shall titans* produce several other cvw
tt] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1 67 $-r-uxd Gr<m, fir Bigh Tr
fences, to strengthen and confirm the* wit*
newest we shall first call oar witnesses, and
enter upon the proof.
Mr. Finch opened the Evidence thus :
Mr. Watch. May it please your- lordship,
and job gentlemen of the jury ; before we call
oar Witnesses, I would beg leave once more to
remind yoo of wbattiatb already been opened
aoto you : the onality of the offenders them-
selves, and the' natare of the offence they stand
indicted of. For the offenders they are most
of them Priests and Jesaits ; three of them at
the lease are so ; the other two are the accursed
instruments of this design : For the offence,
itself, 'tis High Treason.
And though it be High-Treason by the4
statute of 27 Eiiz. for men of that profession to
come into England ; yet these men are not
indicted upon that law, nor for that treaton :
I take notice of to you, for the prisoners
►, that they should not fancy to tiiemseives
~ Martyrdom for their Religion, as
of them have vainly imagined in their
and for your sakes too, that as at first, it
treason, repeated acts of treason in these
ssen; and those proceeding from a principle
of religion too* that justly occasioned the making
that-iaw : so here you might observe a preg-
nant instance of it in the prisoners at the bar,
That whenever they had an opportunity, as now
they thought they had, they have never failed
to put those principles into practice.
So now, Gentlemen, as they are not iodicted
for being priests, I most desire you to lay that
quite of the case, and only consider that they
stand here accused for treaton ; such treason,
*§ were they laymen only, they ought to die
fork; thoogh I cannot but observe, they were
the sooner traitors for' being priests.
The treason therefore they stand indicted of,
is of the highest nature: It is a conspiracy to
kill the kin£, and that too with circumstances
so aggravating (if any thing can aggravate that
efience which is the highest,) that nothing less
than the total subversion of the government,
and otter destruction of the Protestant Religion
wonld serve their tarns. And really, when
yen consider the root from whence this treason
springs yon will cease wondering that all this
should be attempted and rather wonder that it
was not done.
Mischiefs have often miscarried for want of
*sckednes» enough; the horror of conscience
or eke the malice of the aggressor not being
eanal to the attempt, has sometimes prevented
the execution of it. Here is no room for any
tbiee; of this kind : this treason proceeds from
a principle of religion, from a sense that it is
lawful ; nay that they ought to do these things ;
and every neglect here is looked on as a piece
of irreiigion, a want of seal ; for which one of
the prisoners did penance, as in the course of
ear evidence we shall prove unto you.
And when we consider, too, that this is
carried oo, not by the fury of two or three
nosy men orer- zealous in the cause, but by
the deliberate and steady ronnssit efthe whole
order, and that too under the obligations of se-
crecy, as high as Christian Bnngjnn can lay on
them ; yoo have great reason to wonder that it
did not succeed. And yet after all this they
have not been able to prevail. Not that we can
brag of any human policy that did prevent it t
No ; all that the wit of man could do, these
men bad done : but it was the providence of
God, it was bis revelation: that providence ,
that first enlightened his church, and has nee-
served it against all opposition heretofore, baa
once more disappointed their counsel*, and
preserved the king and this nation in the pro-
fession of that true religion these men have
vainly attempted to destroy.
Gentlemen, I wall not open to you the parts*
cnlars of our Evidence; that I hud rather should
come from the witnesses themselves . I shall
only in general tell you what will be the course
of it. vVe shall prove unto you, That there
was a summons for a consultation to be held
by these men the 94th of April Inst, from the
provincial Mr. Whitebread : That they had a •
caution given them, not to come too soon, nor
appear much about town, till the consultation
were over, lest occasion should be given to sus-
pect the design > That accordingly a consulta-
tion w.;s held, as they say, to send Cary, their
procurator, to Roiu» ; though we shall prove to
you it was for other purposes: That they ad-
journed from their general assembly into lesser
companies ; where several persons d»d attend
them to carry intelligence of their several re-
solutions t That at these several consults they
did resolve the king was to be killed : That
Pickering and Grove should do it ; for which
the one was to have 90,000 masses said for his
soul ; the other was to have 1,500/. That in
prosecution of this design, they made several
attempts to execute it: That they lay in wait
for the king several times in St. James's Park,
and other places : And that once in particular
it had been done by Pickering, if it had not
pleased God to have prevented it by an acci-
dent unforeseen : The font of his pistol being
loose, he durst not then attempt it, though be
had an opportunity : For which neglect, we
shall prove to you, he underwent the penance
of 90 or SO strokes. That when these men had
failed, we shall prove to you they hired f<»ur
ruffians to murder the king at Windsor, and
after that at New-market. Thus they way-
laid him in all his .privacies and retirements*
wherever they could think it most convenient to
% execute their design.
And this we shall prove by two witnesses;
who though they should not speak to the same
consultations, nor the same times, yet tljey are
still two witnesses in Isw. For several wit-
nesses of several overt-acts are so many wit-
nesses to the treason : because the treason con-
sists in the intention of the man, in the com-
passing and imagining the death of the king.
The several overt-acts which declare that inten-
tion, are but as so many evidences of the trea-
son. We will call our witnesses, and make out
what has been opened to you.
91} «ATE THALS, 30 Chaklks II
CI ofCr. lin Oates, Lay your hand upon
the- book. The evidence 5011 shall give for oar
sovereign lord the king, against Thomas White
alias Whitebread, William Ireland, John Fen-
wrick, Thomas Pickeriag, aad John Grove, the
psisouers at the bar, shaU be the truth, tlte
whole truth, awl nothing but the truth. So help
^euGod.
Mr. Serj. BaUwyn. Pray, Mr. Oates, will
yea declare to the court and the jury, what
design there was for the killing of his majesty,
and by whom.
• Mr. Oates. My lord, in the month of De-
cember last, Mr. Thomas Whitebread did re-
ceive a patent from the general of the Jesuits
at Rome to be proviucial of the Order : alter
he bad received ibis patent, be sent order to
one George Convert, a Jesuit at St. Omers, to
preach upon St. Thomas of Canterbury's day;
and by virtue of this order, George Conyers did
preach against oaths of allegiance and supre-
macy, and did in his doctrine call them anti-
christ! an and devilish. My lord, in the month
of January, (his Mr. Whitebread did send se- < ,
veral letters to St. Omers; in which letters
there was contained intimation of his intent to
proceed against the king's person to assassinate
him; which letters were written to Richard
Aehby. My lord*, in the month of February,
there comes an order from htm as provincial,
for several of the Jesuits to make their ap-
pearance at London, to be there at a consult
to be held the 94th of April O. S.
' L. C. J. (sir William Scroggs.) Where was
Whitebread then?
Mr. Oatet. He was then in London, my
lord, as I suppose by the dating of his letters.
My lord, from Mr. Whitebread after this sum-
mons, we received a second summon*, which
came the 5th of April, N. 8., and upon the
summon* there were nine did appear at Lon-
don, the Rector of Liege, sir Thomas Pres-
ton, the Rector of Ghent, whose name is
Marsh, the Rector of Wotton, whose name
is Williams, and one sir John Warner,
and two or three more from St, Omers; and
there was a special order given us, my lord,
to keep onrselves close, lest we should be sua*
pected, and so our design di»clo*ed. My load,
upon the 94th of April, O. S. we did appear in
the consult. The consult was begun at the
White-horse tavern in the Strand*, ond there
,•.— »«•*-
* This was the perjury assigned in the In-
dictment on which, upon May 8th, 1685,
Oates was convicted of perjury, See the Trial,
infra. " I waited on the king [James Sd] in his
barge from Whitehall to Somerset-bouse, where
he went to visit the Queen Dowager. It was.
upon this day that the noted Dr. Gates was
convicted of Perjury ; it being proved that he
was at St. Omers the 94th. of April, 1678, when
he swore be was at the White-horse tavern in the
Stntod, where Pickering, Graven, Ireland, and
other Jesuit* signed the death of bine, Charles
the Secood. This was a grateful heanng to the
ling, who thereupon observed, that indeed
1 G78.~.7to/ qf IrsUmd, Pickrimg. l»
tliey met in several rooms; they came in by de-
grees ; aad ae the new ones came on, the old ones,
those that bad been there before them, fell off.
And there was one John Cary appointed to go
Crocurntor for Rome, and he was so appointed
y the suffrages of the three prisoners at the
bar, Whitebread, Ireland, and Fenwick. It
was afterwards adjourned into several collo-
quies, or little meetings ; one meeting was at
Mrs. Sander* a house, that huts upon Wild-
house; a second was at Mr. Ireland's ; a third
was at Mr. Harcourt's ; a fourth was at Mr.
Grove 0 ; and other meeting or meetings there
were, but F cannot give a good account ef them.
My lord, after they had thus met, and debated
the state of religion, and the life of the king,
they drew up this resolve; it was drawn up by
oneMico, who was secretary to the society, and
Socius, or companion to the provincial.
L. J. C. When was that done ?
Mr. Octet. That day, my lord.' The Re-
solve, my lord, was thia, as near as I can re-
member the words : It is resolved. That Tho-
mas Pickering and John Grove shall go on in
their attempt to assassinate the king (whether
they used the word assassinate, I cannot re*
member, but the. meaning was, they should
make an attempt upon bis person), and that
tiie reward of tlte one, that is Grove's, should
be 1,500/., and that Pickering's rewaid should
be 30,000 masses. My lord, after this resolu-
tion was signed by Whitebread, it was signed
by Fen wick and Ireland, and by all the four
clubs : I saw them sign it, for I carried the in-
strument from one to another.
L. C J. What was it they signed ?
fate*. Tlte resolve of the consul L
L, C. J, What, that which was drawn op by
Mice ?
Oates. Yes, my Lord, that which was drawn
up by Mice.
Whitebread. Doth he say that he saw them
sign it?— 'Gales. Yes, I did see them sign it.
Jury. We desire he may be asked where he
saw 1 hero sign it.
(Jutes. Mr. Whitebread signed it at that
part of the consult that was at bis chamber,
Ireland did sign it at that part of the consult
that was at his chamber, Feu*ick signed it at
that part of the consult that was at bis cham-
ber.
there had been a meeting of the Jesuits that
day, and that all the scholars of St. Genera
knew of it ; but that it was weU Dr. Gates
knew no better where it was to be, for, aaya
his majesty, they met in Sl James's,- where I
theo lived ; which if Oates bad but known, he
would have cut out a fine spot of work fo/me.
The king then subjoined, that Oates being
thus convicted, the Popish Plot was now dead t
to which I answering, that it had been long
sine* dead, and that now it would be buried,
his majesty so well approved of the turn, that
going with him afterwarti* to the Princess of
Denmark's, I heard him repeat it to her.1' Sis
John Reresby's Memoirs, p. 19*>
13] STATE TRIALS, 50 Caailes II. 16?8.~wd Crow, /far A%/< Treasm. [<K
Wkiu&rtad. Were yea at ell these places?
(hta. I went with k from place to piece;
bet 1 sscotion no more now, bet only these.
Whitebread* You were not at ell these places, *
aeo* saw them sign k there, were you?
(fates. Yes, I did see them sign it at all those
places. My Lard, ia the month of May, Mr.
Whtcebreod came over as provincial from Eng-
land to St. Omers, to begiu his provincial visita-
tion, and wkh him came Gary and his com*
pankra Mice. Cary left St. Omers to begin
his journey to Rone: Wbftebread, after he
had given an account of what proceedings the
catholics of Englaad had made in order to dis-
turb die peace of the kingdom, what moneys
had been gathered, what suffrages dispersed,
what means bad been used, what noblemen
bad joined in this execrable plot; he did tjien
(ar Lord) order me to come for England.
L.C.J. Whitebread did?
Goltf*. Yes, iny Lord, Whkebread did.
And, my Lord, the business I was to come into
rjngjand for, was to nrarder one Dr. Tongue, a
Doctor io I>frinity, who had written a fioek
catted «* The Jesuits Morals;" that is to say,
translated tbem out of French into English.
My lord, I came over into England on the 23rd
of Jane, N. S. ; I came out of Sr. Omers, that
is, the 13th in the stile of England ; oa the
34th N.S., I took the packet-boat at Calais;
the 25th N. S., I met with Mr. Fenwick at
Dover; be was come down with certain youths,
to send them to St. Omers, and had ordered
their passage. — My lord, with Mr. Fenwick,
aad some other persons, we came to London in
a coach ; and sis miles (as near as I remember
it) on this side Canterbury, at a place called
Bolton, oor coach was stopped by the search-
ers, and there they did examine a box that was
ia the coach directed for the hon. Richard
BtundeU, esq. This box, when they opened it,
xbey found full of beads, crucifixes, images, and
other sorts of trumpery, that I cannot give a
good account of; it is be can give the best :
Mr. Fenwick went by the name of one Thomp-
son), and did personate one Thompson, as living
acar the Fountain-Tavern, at Charing-Cruss ;
aad did order the searchers to write' to bhn
there, as by the name of Thompson. When
the bos was seised, they being prohibited goods,
Mr. Fenwick did say, that if they had searched
his pockets, they had found such letters about
baa as might have cost htm his life ; but his
Setters did escape starching. We came that
night fo SitcJaburgb, and lay there on Sunday
the 36th, N. &, as near as 1 remember : and t
think we stayed there till the afternoon: We
took coach io the afternoon, and came as far as
Dstftastd. Ob Monday msrning we came into
London ; aad (my lord) 'When we came into
Landow, and had continued there some days
(I sow lernrn to Mr. Wbitebread), there came
ase Asbby to town ; he had been some time
■sttor of St* Otoer*, and -was come to England
*ek of the goat, and was to go to the Bath to
fe cored. And he brooght instructions with
** frtMU vVhitobroad; and the instructions
in them these particulars: instruc-
tions or Memorials, or what else they called
them. I. That 10,000/. should be propased
to sir George Wakeoteo for the killing of the
king. 8, That care should be taken ibr the
murder of the bishop <»f Hereford. &. That
care should be taken for the murder of Dr»
Stilliogfleet. 4. That though this proposal
was made to sir George Wakeman of 10,0004.
yet Pickering and Grove, should go on still in
their attempts. My lord, afterwards these
were taken and copied out, and dispersed to
the several conspirators in the kingdom, whose
names I cannot call to mind. Hut Coleman
made several copies, and dispersed tbem about :
Then the 10,000/. was proposed to sir George
Wakeman, but it was refused.
L. C. J. What, it was too -little ?
Gate*. Yes, my lord, it was too Jit tie. Then
Whitebread be writ from St. Omers, that ia
case 10,0001. would not do, fifteen should be
proposed, and after that he had that proposed;
lie accepted of that.
L. C. J, Were you by when he accepted it?
Oate$. No, my load, I was not: But it ap-
peared upon their entry-books, aad it appeared
by a letter from this gentleman, Mr. White-
bread, wherein he did shew a e/eat deal of joy
far sir George Wakeman's accepting of the
lSyOOOs*. My lord, after this it was agreed
apon, that sir George Wakemaa should have
15,000*., and 5,000*7 of it was paid by Oolemma
or his order* Thus the state of afairs steed
till August. Theu one Fogarthy, who is dead,
came to a consult of the Jesuits with the Bene-
dictines : Now at tins consult the prisoner at
the bar Fenwick was, he was one, and Har-
court was another. And in this consult there
were four ruffians recommended io them.
L. C. /. By whom?
Oatet. By Fogarthy they were recommend^
ed, but accepted of by these consalrors, aad
consented to by Fenwick. They were seat
away, end the next day after fourscore peeed*
was sent them, the most part of it was gold*
and Coleman was there and -gave the messenger
a guinea to expedite his errand. My lord, »
the month of August there came ether letters
from Whitebread, wherein be did give an ac-
count of what care be had taken of the Scotch
business ; and he ordered one Moor and one
Senders, ahas Brown, to 'go down to .Scotland,
and he did order the teeter of London, thee
William Hatcourt, to teed them ; and he did
jo send them the 6th of August, in the name of
the provincial.
Whitebread, From whence, { pray?
Oat ft. From London, end they went to pro-
secute and carry on the design which Fenwick.
and Ireland had plotted, of a rebellion amongst
the disaffected Scots against the governor} an*
pointed them by the king; and thev sent down
ministers to preach under the notion of Pres-
byterian ministers, in order to get the dtsawest*
ea Scots to rise, by insinuating the tad condi*
tion they were likely to be in, by reason of epis-
copal tyranny (as they termed it.) ^nd ehat
M] STATE TRIALS, JO Ouklb* II. N578.— 7Wei 0/ In&stf, Pickering, [96
they were resolved to dispose of the king, and
they -did intend to dispute of the Duke too, in
ease he did not appear vigorous in promoting
the catholic religion (I speak, their, own words*)
• L.C. J. Have von done with your evi-
dence? What do yon know of the prisoners at
the bar? Name them all.
Oatet. There is Whitebread, Ireland, Fen-
wick, Pickering, and Grove.
X. C. J. Are you sore dickering and Grove
accepted of the terms ?
Oatet. Yes, my lord, I was there.
X. C. J. Where was it?
Gates. At Mr. Whitehead's lodgings at
Mrs. Saunders's house. As for Grove, indeed,
he did attend at that time upon Fenwick at his
chamber; but after the consult was over he
came to Whttebread's lodging*, and did take
the sacrament and the oaths of secrecy upon it,
and did accept it, and agree to it.
X. C. J. Were yon there when be took the
'sacrament?
Oatet. Yes, my lord, I was.
X. C. X Who gave you the sacrament ?
Oates. It was , a Jesuit! that goes by the
name of one Barton.
Whitebread. My lord before I forget if, I
desire to say this. lie says that at such and
such consults in April and May he was present,
and curried the resolutions from one to another.
There are above a hundred and a hundred, that
can testify he was all that while at St. Omers,
Pray teU me when I received the sacrament?
Gates. Ac the same time.
Whitebread. What day was that?
Out*. The 24th of A pril.
WhUebread. Was I there?
Oatet. You were there.
Whitebread. I take God to witness I was not.
X. C. J. Mr. Whitebread, you shall have
time to make your answer. But. pray Mr.
Oaies, when was Mr. Carey dispatched away
to Rome, and what was Ins errand ?
Gates. My lord, 111 teU you ; he ,waa ap*
proved of to go to Rome the 24th of April ;
mi the month of May or June, Whitebread
brings Cary over to St: Omers, and one.Mko
bis secretary or companion with bim,
X. C. J. When was it?
Oatet. In the mouth of May. or June he
was brought over by the provincial ; then he
went away on bis journey, and at Paris receiv-
ed 90/. to bear his charges.
Finch. What do you know of any attempts
so till the king at $t. James's Park?
Oatet. I saw Pickering and Grove several
times walking in. the* Park together with their
acsewed pistols, which were longer than ordi-
nary pistols, and shorter than some carbines*
They had silver bullets to shoot with, and
Grove would have had the bullets to be chamfrt,
for fear that if be should shoot, if tlte bullets
were round*, the wound that might be given
might be cured.
X. C. J. Did Grove intend to champ them?'
Gets*. He did say so.
X. C. J. Did be shew you the bullets ?
Gates. I did see them;
Grave, When was ihis?
Oatet* I saw the bullets in the month of
May, and in the month of June.
Whitebread. Pray, where did you see them f
Gates. In Grove's possession.
Whitebread. At what time ?
Oatet. In the month of May.
Whitebread. Then was he actually himself
at St. Omen. Was it in May or June ?
Gates. The latter end of May and June. I
saw them then twice, if not thrice. But PicE-
ering's I saw it) August.
Sir Cr. Levins. Do you know, any thing of
Pickering's doing penance, and for what ?
Oatet. Yes, my lord, in the month of March
last (for these persons have followed the king
several years); but he at that time had not
looked to the flint of his pistol, but it was
loose, and he durst not venture to give fire. He
had a fair opportunity, as Whitebread said;
and because he mist it through his own neg-
ligence, he underwent penance, and had 80 or
30 strokes of discipline, and Grove was chid-
den for his carelessness.
X. C. J. That was in March last ?
Oalet. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. How do you know that ? •
Gates. By letters that I have seen from Mr.
Whitebread ; these I saw and read, and I anew
Whitehead's band.
Mr. Serj. Baldmyn. What do yon know of
the ruffians that went down to Windsor? What
success had they?
Gates. I can give no account of that, be-
cause in the beginning of September this 'gen-*
tleman that had been in England some time
before, was come to London and the business
had taken air, and one Beddingfield had written
to him, that the thing was discovered, and that
none but such a one cpuld do it, naming me
by a name that be knew I went* by.
Whitebread. When was that, sir?
Oatet. In the month of September last, I
came to the provincial's chamber the 3rd of
September; when I came t could not speak
with him, for he was at supper ; but when he
had supped I was admitted in, and there he
shewed me the letter that he had received front
Beddingfield.
Whitebread. Where did you see it?
Oatet. You read it to me <when you chid
me, and beat me, and abused me.
JL C. J. What did he chide you for ?
Gates. He did charge me with very high
language of being with the king, and with a
minister, and discovering the matter. I was so
unfortunate, that the gentleman who was with
the king did wear the same coloured % clothes
that I did then wear t And he having given an
account that the party wore such clothes, the
suspicion was laid upon met Now, my lord,.
I had not then been with the king, but another
gentleman had been with him from me with
the draughts of some papers concerning this,
business, which 1 had drawn up, and I Was
ready to- appear when I should be culled to>
■ • 4
ST) STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1678.— and Grate, ft* High Treason. [98
justify them, only I did not think fit to appear
uaniediately : And my lord, this Beddinsheld,
he had gotten into it that it was discorered, and
writ the provincial word be thought it was by
me; * tor/ said he, ' he hath been drawn in by
* some of bis old acquaintance :' When he had
received this letter, be asked me with what face
I could look upon him, since I hail betrayed
them : So, my lord, I did profess a great deal
of moocency, because I had not then been
with the king ; but he gave me very ill language
and abused me, and I was afraid of a worse
mischief from them ; for I could not but con-
dude, that if they dealt so cruelly with those
that only writ against them, I could scarce
escape, of whom they had that jealousy, that t
had betrayed them: And, my lord, though they
could not prove that I hod - discovered it, yet
upon the hare suspicion I was beateu, and af-
fronted, and reviled, and commanded to go be-
yond sea again ; nay, my lord, I had my lodg-
iag assaulted, to have murdered me if they could.
Whitebread. By whom ?
Gates. By Mr. Wbitebread, and some of
Wkittbread. Who beat you ?
(tees. Mr. Wbitebread did.
Mr. Serj. Baldwin. Was it Pickering or
Grove that had the flint of his pistol loose ?
Gates. Pickering.
Pickering. My lord, I never shot off a pistol
mall my Hie.
JL C. J. What say you as to the fourscore
pounds ?
Gate*. My lord, I will speak to that ; that
was given to the four ruffians that were to kill
the king at Windsor : now, my lord, that
money I saw
JL C. J. Where did you see it ?
Gates. At Harcourt's chamber.
JLC. J. Where is that?
Gates. In Duke Street, near the arch.
X. C. J. Who was it given by ?
Gates. William Harcourt
JL C. J. Did you see the four fellows ?
Oatet. No, my lord, I never did, nor never
knew their names.
JL C. J. Who was the money given to?
Gates. A messenger that- was to carry it
down to diem.
X. C. J, Who was that messenger?
Oatet, One of theirs that I do not know ;
and I durst not be too inquisitive, my lord, for
fear of beingsuspected.
£• C. X Who was by when the money was
Gates. Coleman, that is executed; and, my
lord, there was this Mr. Fenwick by, that is
the prisoner at the bar.
Fenwick. When was this ?
Qmtet. In the month of August.
Fenwick. Where?
Gate*. At Harcourt's chamber.
Fenwick. I never saw you there in all my
fife : are you sura I was by when the money
here?
(fate*. Yes, you were.
TOU'toV
X. C. J. Mr. Fenwick, you shall have your
time by and by to ask him any question : Mr.
Gates,* let me ask you once again, When there
was the appointment made for Grove and
Pickering to kill the king, who signed it ?
Oatet. At least forty signed it.
X. C. J. Did the other three sign it ?
Oatet. Yes, my lord, all of them.
X. C. J. Name tbem.
Oatet. There was Whitebread, Fenwick, and
Ireland.
X. C. J. And you say you went from place
to place, and saw it signed r
Oatet. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. Were you attendant upon them ?
Oatet. My lord, I ever was since the year
1666.
L. C. J. At whose lodgings did you use to
attend upon the consultation ?
Oatet. At the Provincial's chamber, Mr.
Whitebread.
X. C. J. Where was it first signed ?
* Oatet. At the Provincial's chamber.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Who carried it from lodging
to lodging?
Oatet. I did.
X. C.J. When was it?
Oatet. The 24th of April. • -
Mr. Just. Bertue. You say you carried the*
result from place to place, pray tell us what
that result was?
Oatet. They knew what it was, for they rend
it before they signed it.
Mr. Just. Atkins. But tell us the contents
of it.
Oatet. The contents of that resolve was
this (I will tell you the substance, though I
cannot tell you exactly the words) : That
Pickering and Grove should go on in their
attempts to assassinate the person of the king ;
as near as I can remember it was so ; that the
former should have 30,000 masses and the
latter 1,500/. ; and the whole consult did conv
sent to it, and signed the agreement that was
made with them, and did resolve upon the
king's death all in one resolve.
X. C. J. Where was this agreed upon ? at
the White-Hone tavern f
Oatet. No, my lord. After they had agreed:
at the White-Horse, that Mr. Cary should go
procurator to Rome, and some other small
particulars, which I cannot now remember,
they did adjourn from the White-Horse tavern,
and met at several chambers, some at one
place, and some at another*
X. C. J. But you say Mico did: draw up the
resolution, where was that ?
Oatet. At Mr. Whitehead's chamber, for
he was Socius, and secretary to the Provincial.
X. C. J. Were Ireland and Fenwick pre- >
sent when Mico drew it np ?
Oatet. No, my lord, but they were at their
own chambers ; after it was drawn up there,
and figned by Mr. Whitebread, and those of
the consult in his chamber, it was carried to
the several consults.
X. C. J, What, all the same day 7
H
99) STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1GT8 — Ikud */ Ireland, Pickering, [TOO
Oates. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. And yoo went along with it I
Oates. Yes, my tore*, I did.
Mr. Just. Bertne. I only ask yen* were all
the five prisoners privy to it ? or do yee distin-
guish any or them, and which f
Gate*. They were all privy te it.
Whit. My lord, we can prove
X. C. J. You shall have time sufficient (o
snake what defence you can, you shall be sure
to have a fair trial, and be stopt of nothing that
yoo will think fit to say for yourselves. Mr.
Oates, were Pickering and Grove present ?
Oates. Yes, ray lord, Grove at Feo wick's
chamber, and Pickering at the Provincial's
chamber.'
X. C. J. But (hey were not required to sign
this, w<ere they ?
Oates. After tjiat the whole consult had
signed it, and Mass was preparing to be said
for it, before Mass, they did sign and accept
of it.
X. C. J. Where dad they two do it ?
Oates. At the Provincial's chamber.
X. C. J. What day was it f
Oates. That day, "for they met all together
at the Provincial's chamber to receive the Sa-
crament, and when Mass was going to be said,
one said it was too late, for it was after twelve
o'clock ; but Mr. Whitebread said it was not
afternoon till we had dined ; and you know,
Mr. Whitebread, that Masses have been said at
one or two o'clock in the afternoon.
Mr. Just. Atkins. II ow many persons did
meet at that consult ?
Oates. My lord, there were about forty or
fifty, and after they had adjourned into several
lesser companies, they met all together at Mr.
Whitebread's chamber. '
X. C. J. Where was that, and when ?
Oates. That day, at Wild-Home*
X. C. J. Where was it that they gave the
Sacrament ?
Oates. At a little chapel at Wild-House,
Mrs. Sanders's.
X. C. J. Did they accept it before they took
the 8acrament ?
Oates . Yes, Pickering and Grove did sign it
before they took the Sacrament.
Mr. Justice Atkins. Yoo tell us of an Oath
•of Secrecy that was taken, what was that Otth?
Oates. I cannot give an account of the
form of the Oath, but it was an obligation of
secrecy.
Mr. Justice Atkins. Did you see the Oath
administered?— Oates. Yes, niy lord, I did.
X. C. J. W ho administered it ?
Octet. Mr. Whitebread, he did give it unto
tne and to all the rest that were there, and Mico
held tlie book ; it was a mass-book, but they
were words of his own invention, h believe,
they were not written down.
X. C. £ Cannot you tell what they were f
Mr. Oates. No, my lord, I cannot teU, be-
cause I did not see them written down.
X. C. J. If yon will ask this gentleman any
thing more, yourmay.
Whitebread. My lord, 1 an* m a very weak
and doubtful condition as to my health, and
therefore I slioakl be very lota to speak airy
thing bat what is trne : we are to prove a ne-
gattvo, and I know it is much harder to prove
a negative, than to a«sert an affirmative ; it is
not a very Itard thing for a man to swear any
tbrog, if he will venture his soul for it; but
truly, I amy boldly say, m tlie sight of Ar-
miglitv God before whom i an. to appear,
there k\v«? not been three ttroe words spoken by
this nittii-v.
L. C J. Ooyou bear, if yon cottld but satisfy
us, that }i>u have no dispensation to call God
to witness a lie
Whitebreud. My lord, I do affirm it with aH
the protestations imaginable.
X. C. J. But if you have a religion that
can give a dispensation for oaths, sacraments,
protestations and falsehoods that are in the
world, how can you expect we should believe
you?
Whitebread. I know no such thing.
X. C. J. We shall see chat presently, before
we have done.
Oates. I have one thing more to say, my
lord, that comes into my mind. This White-
bread received power from the see of Rome to
grant out cominissioae to officers military.
And, my lord, here are the seals of the office
in court, which he hath sealed some hundreds
of commissions with, which they call patents.
X. C. J. What were those commissions for }
For an army ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, for an army.
Whitebread. When were those commissions
signed ? '
Oates. My lord, several of them were signed
in the formerproviiici&l's time.
X. C. J. What, I warrant you, you are not
provincial of the Jesuits, are you ?
Whitebread. I cannot deny that, my lord.
X. C. J. Then there are more than three
words he hath spoken are true.
Mr. Justice Atkins. I believe, Mr. Oates,
that that army was intended for something, pray
what was it for ?
Oates. My lord, they were to rise upon the
death of the king, and let the French king in>
upon us, and they had made it their business
to prepare Ireland and Scotland for the receiv-
ing of a foreign invasion.
X. C. J. Who were those comimssions sealed
by?
Oates. My lord, the commissions of the
great officers were sealed with the general's seel.
X. C. J. Who was that ?
Oates. His name is Johannes Paulas de
Oiiva : His seal sealed the Commissions for the
generals, major- generals and great persons;
but tbose seals that sealed the several commis-
sions to several inferior officers, were in the
custody of the provincial.
X. V. J. .Can you name any one person
that he hath sealed a commission to?
Oates. I can name one : To sir John Gage*
which commission I delivered myself.
101] STATE TRIALS, 30 Cham.es II. 1 078.— and Grove, for High Treason. £10$
L.C.J. What, of Sussex?
Oalcs. Yes, of Sussex.
Mr. Justice A iking. Who did you receive the
commission frunv?
Oates. ffy lord, when "he went over, he left
a great many blank patents to be filled up, and
he left one ready sealed for a commission to sir
John Gage. This was delivered into my hands
when be was absent, but it was signed by him,
mad delivered to me while he was in Jus visita-
tion beyond the seas, but I dare swear it was
fats hand, as I shall answer it before God and
the king.
Mr. Justice Atkins. Who had it you from ?
GaZes. From Mr. Ashby,but by Whitehead's
appointment in his instructions, which I saw
and read.
X. C. J. What was the commission for ?
Gates, To be an officer in the army.
X. C.J. Did you see lb e instructions left
for Asoby ?
Onteu I did see them, and read them, and
I did then, as I always did, gi\e it as my judg-
ment, that it was more safe to poison the king,
than to pistol or srab him.
Mr. Justice Bertue. Was the commission
which you delivered to sir John Gage, from
Ashby or from Whitebread ?
Oates. I had it from Ashby, but White-
bread, who was then beyond sea, had signed
this commission btfore be went. My lord, I
hare soraerhing more yet to say, and that is as
to Mr. Grove, That he did go about with one
Smith to gather Pel er -pence, which was
either to carry on the design, or to send them
to Rome. I saw the book wherein it was en-
tered, and I beard him say that he bad been
gathering of ii.
Grave. Wliere was this ?
Oates. Io Cockpit-alley, where you knew I
lodged.
Grove. Did I ever see you at yoor 1< >dging ?
Oates. You saw me at roy own door.
JL C. J. Why, don't you know Mr. Oates ?
Drove. My lord, I have seen him before.
X. C /. Why this it is, ask a Papist a
question, and you shall have a Jesuitical an-
swer.
Oates. I will convince the Court that he does
knew ine by some circumstances. My lord, in
the month of Dec last, by the provincial's or-
der
X- C. /. I would ask him first, whether he
does know you or no. Do you know Mr.
Oaiea?
Grove. I have seen him before.
X. C. J. Have you been often in his com-
pear?
Grove. No, my lord.
L. C. J. What do yon call often ? Have
Ebeen in his conii>aov seven or eight times ?
we most deal suotilly with such as you are)
e you been in his company ten times?
Grove. No.
X. C. J. What say you to three times ?
Grose* Yes,; J bc)ieve I have seen him twice
or thrice*
X. C. J. Where ? did you never see him at
Whitehead's ?
Grove. As I hope to be saved, and "before
the eternal God. I did never.
Oates. I will convince him and the court,
that he does know me, and is well acquainted
with me; In the mouth of December last I
went to Si. Omers, I went first to the then pro-
vincial's ho u«e, to take my leave of hiiin,' and
there I met Mr. Grove, and he appointed to
come to my lodging the next morning, near the
Red Lion in Drury lane, at one Grigson's-
house,xand he was so well acquainted with me
then, that he had lent me eight shillings to hire
the coach.
L. C. J. Did you lend him eight shillings ?
Grove. I did, my lord, I do not deny it.
X. C. J. How came yon to do it, when it
seems, if you say true, he was a st ran get to
you?
Grove. I thought I should have it again.
X. C.J. What, of him?
Grove. Yes.
X. C. J. Did he desire you to lend him the
eight shillings?
Grove. Yes, he did, my lord.
Oates. Then there is one time that be con*
fesses he saw me.
L. C. J. Did yon not know him before ?
Grove. I had no acquaintance with him, f
had seen him.
X. C. J. Mow came you then to lend money
to one you had no more acquaintance with ?
Grove. I knew I should go along with him
to the coacb, then I thought I should have it
again.
X. C. J. Mr. Oate?, were you going beyond
sea then ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I was.
X. C. J. Mr. Gate •, did you pay him that
money f
Oates. No, my lord, I did not:
X. C. X Did ycu ask him for the money, end
had you it ?
Grove. He did not pay it me.
X. C. J How then were you sure you
should have it ?
Grove. He did order me to go to such -a*
one for it.
X C. J. Who was that ?
Grove. Mr. Fen wick, I think.
X. C. J. Then Mr. Oates Was known to
you all, he was no such stranger to you as you
would make us believe.
Oates. Thus be confesses three tidies he
had seen me, once before he lent me the money,
another time when he lent it, and the tbiro
time the neit day. And I will put him in
mind of another time, when he and I were in
company, wliere one brought us a note of what
was done in tbe House of Commons, turned
into burlesque, for they used to turn alt that
was done at tbe council, or at the parliament,
or at the courts in Westminster-haH, into bur-
lesque, and then translated it into the French,
and sent it to the French king, for him. to
laugh at too. But that by the way. twice
103] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1678.— Trial tf Ireland, Pickering, [104
turn again, and betake myself to the ministry
to get bread, for I have eaten nothing these two
days : and I then gave him five shillings to re-
lieve his present necessity.
Vales. My Lord, I will answer to that ; I
was never in any such straits, I was ordered by
i he provincial to be taken care of by the Pro-
curator.
Fenw. You brought no such order to me.
Oates. Yes, Mr. Fen wick, you know there
was such an order, and I never received so little
in my life as five shillings from you : I have re-
ceived 20 and 30 and 40*. at a time, but never
so little as five.
X. C. J. You are more charitable than you
thought for. '
Fenw. He told me he had not eaten a bit in
two days.
Oates. I have indeed gone a whole day with-
out eating, when I have been hurried about
your trash ; but I assure you, my lord, I never
wanted for any thing among them.
L. C. J. Perhaps it was tasting-day.
X. C. Baron. My Lord, their fasting-days
are none of the worst.
Oates. No, we commonly eat best of those
days.
X. C. J. Have you any thing to ask him, any
of you ?
Whitebread. My Lord, will you be pleased
to give me leave to speak for myself.
Just. Atkins. It is not your time yet to make
your full defence, but if you will ask him any
questions, you may.
Whitebread. I crave your mercy my Lord.
X. C. J. Will you ask him any questions ?
Fenw. Did not you say that you were at my
chamber the 24th of April, with the resolve of
the consult ?
Oatet. That resolve I did then carry to your
chamber.
Fenw. Then was he himself at St. Omers.
X. C. J. The difference of old stile, and hew
stile may perhaps make some alteration in that
circumstance.
Whitebread. But, my Lord, he hath sworn he
was present at several consultations in April
and May, but from November till June he was
constantly at St. Omers.
X. C. J. If you can make it out that he- was
at St. Omers all April and May, then what he
bath said cannot be true.
Ireland. He himself hath confessed it that ha
was at St* Omers.
X. C. J. If you mean by confession, what
stands upon the evidence he hath given, I will
remember you what that was. He says he came
to St. Omers
Oates. Will your lordship give me leave to
satisfy the court : in the month of December,
or November, I went to St. Omers : I remain-
ed there all January, February, March, and^
some part of April : then I came over with the
Fathers to the consult that was appointed the
34th of that month.
Fenw. Did you go back again? Ottes. Yea,
Fenw. When was that ?
more he drank in my company, at the Red {
Posts in Wild- street, and once more when he
owned to me, that he fired South wark.
X. C. J. Now by the oath that you have
taken, did he own to you that- be had fired
South wark ? ■
Oates. My lord, he did tell me that he with
three Irishmen did fire Southwark, and that
they had 1,000/. given them for it, whereof he
had 400/. and the other 200/. a piece.
X. C. J. Now for Mr. Feuwick. Do you
know Mr. Oates?
Fenwick. Yes, my lord, I do.
X. C. J. Were you well acquainted with
liim ? speak plain.
Oates. He was my father-confessor, my
<lord.
X. C. J. Was he so ? were you his con-
fessor ?
Fenwick. I believe he never made any con-
fession in his life.
L. C. J. Yes, he hath made a very good
one now. Were you of his acquaintance, Mr.
Fenwick ? speak home, and don't mince the
natter.
Fenwick. My lord, I have seen him.
X. C.J. I wander what you are made of:
Ask a Protestant, an English one, a plain ques-
tion, and he will scorn to come dallying with an
evasive answer.
Fenw. My Lord, I have been several times .
in his company.
X. C. J. Did you pay 8t. for him ?
Fenw. Yes, I believe I did.
X. C. J. How came you to do it ?
Fenw. He was going to St. Omers.
X. C. J. Why, were you Treasurer for the
Society ?
Fenw. No, my Lord, I was not.
X. C. J. You never bad your 8#. again, had
Fenw. It is" upon my book, my Lord, if I ever
had it.
X. C. X Did Mr. Oates ever pay it again ?
Fenw. No, sure, he was never so honest,
X. C. J. Who had you it of then ?
Fenw. I am certain I had it not from him ;
be did not pay it.
X. C. J. How can yon tell you had it then ?
Fenw. I do suppose I bad it again, but not
of Mr. Oates.
L. C. J. Had you it of Ireland ?
Fenw. I do not know who I had it of, my
lord, nor certainly whether I had it.
X. C. J. Why did you not ask Mr. Oates for
it?
Fenw. He was not able to pay it.
X. C. J. Why did you theu lay it down for
him.
Fenw. Because I was a fool.
I*. C.J. That must be the conclusion always :
when you cannot evade being proved knaves
* by answering directly, you will rather suffer
yourselves to be called fools.
Fenw. My Lord, I have done more for him
than that comes to ; for be came once to me in
a miserable poor condition, and said, I must
105} STATE TRIALS, 30 Caarlks II. 1078.— 4/irf Grove, far High Treason. [IOC
Oates. Id the month of May, presently after
the consults were over.
lour. And we can prove by abundance of
witnesses that he went not from St. Omen all
that month.
L. C. J. Yon shall have what time you will
to prove what you can ; and if you can prove
what you say, you were best fix it opon him ;
for he saJth he was he re at the consults in April
and May ; if yon can prove otherwise, pray do.
Fenw. We can bring an authentic writing (if
there he any such) from St. Omers, under the
seal of the college, and testified by all in the
college, that he was there all the while.
L C. J, Mr. Fenwick, that will not do; for
first, if it were in any other case besides this,
it would be no evidence ; but I know not what
ynu cannot get from St. Omers, or what you
will not call authentic.
Fenw. Does your lordship think there is no
justice out of England ?
L. C. J. It is not, nor cannot be evidence
here.
Tone. It shall be signed by the magistrates
of the town.
L. C. J. What, there ?
Fenw. Yea, there.
L. C. J. You must be tried by the laws of
England, which sends no piece of fact out of
die coon try to be tried.
Fata?. Bat the evidence of it may be brought
L. C. X Then you should have brought it.
You shall have a fair trial ; but we most not
depart from the law or the way oftria), to serve
your purposes. You must be tried according
to the law of the land.
Just. Atkhts. Such evidences as you speak
of we would not allow against you ; and there-
fore we must not allow it for you.
Whit. May this gentleman be put to this;
to produce an v two witnesses that saw him in
town at that time ?
Outes. I will give some circumstauces and
what tokens I have to prove my being here:
Father WarneT, sir Tho. Preston, Father Wil-
liams, and air John Warner, they came hither
with me from St. Omers; there was one Nevil,
'&c. I cannot reckon them all.
L. C. J. You have named enough.
Gates. But to convince them, there was a
fed in the house that was got to the end of his
Bhetorick ; this lad was whipt and turned out
of the house, and had lost all his money : Fa-
ther Wil'iams did re-imburse this lad in order
to bis bringing home, I think the lad's name was
Hnaley, or some such name. And we came
up to London together.
L. C. J. What say you to this circum-
stance?
Whit. My Lord, be knew that two such
came to town, but he was not with them.
JU C. J. You. are now very good at a nega-
tive, I see ; how can you tell that ?
Whit. My Lord, he could not come.
£. C. /. How can you tell he could not
}
Whit. I can fell it very well, for he had no
order to come, nor did come.
LJC. J. How can you undertake to say
that he did not come ?
Whit. Because he had no order to come.
L. C. J. Is that all your reason ? Where •
were you then ? — Whit. I was here.
L. C. J. How do ynu know he was not here?
Whit. He had no orders to come.
L. C. J. Have you any other circumstance,
Mr. Oates, to prove that you were here then ?
Gates. My lord, when I came to London, I
was ordered to keep very close, and I lay at
Grove's house ; let him deny it if be can, I
will tell you who lay there then— — —
Grove. Did you ever lie at my house ?
Gates. There lay a flat en- haired gentleman,
I forgot his name : but I will tell you who lay
there besides ; that is Strange, that was the
late provincial.
L C. J. Did Strange ever lie at your house ?
Grove. Yes, my lord, he did.
L. C. J. Did he lie there in April or May f
Grove. No, he did not in either of them.
L. C. J. You wilt make that appear.
Grove. Yes, that I can by all the house.
L. C. 'J. Have you any more questions to
ask him ? If you have, do : If you can prove
this upon him, that he was absent, and not in
England in April or May, you hare made a
great defence for yourselves, and it shall be re-
membered for your advantage when it comes to
your turn : in the mean time, if you have no
more to say to him, call another witness. Lee
Mr. Oates sit down again, and have some -re-
freshment.
Mr. Serj. Baldwin. We will now call Mr.
Bedlow, my lord.
Then Mr. Bedlow wAs sworn.
Mr. Serj. Baldwin. Mr. Bedlow, pray do you
tell my lord and the jury what you know of any
design of killing the king and by whom.
Bedlow. My Lord, 1 have been five years al-
most employed by the society of Jesuits and
the English monks in Paris to carry and bring let-
ters between them from England and to England
for the promoting of a design tending to the sub*
version of the govermnent,aod the extirpating of
the Protestant Religion, to that degree (which
was always concluded on in alt their consults
wherein I was) that they would not leave any
member of any Heretic in England, that should
survive to tell in the kingdom hereafter that
there ever was any such religion in England as
the Protestant Religion
Here Whiteb read .would have interrupted bun.
My lord, I am so'weH satisfied in their deni-
als, that I cannot but believe they whojean,
give a dispensation, and hare received the sa-
crament to kill a king and destroy a whole king-
dom, do not scruple to give a dispensation for a
little lye to promote such a design, for so much
as this expiates any lie or greater crime.
Sir Cr. Levinj. Pray, sir, will you be pleased
to tell your whole knowledge concerning the
prisoners at the bar.
s
107] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II 1678.— Trial qf Ireland, Picketing, [I0S
Bedlaw. The first letter I carried was from
Mr. Harcourt, at his house next door to the
arch in Duke-strect. He hath been Procurator
for the Jesuits about si* years. He employed
me first, and sent for me over, for 1 nus then
.lieutenant in Flanders, and corning home to
receive my pay that was due to me
- L. C. J. How long is it ago ?
Bedlow. Michaelmas last was four years :
when I came to Dunkirk I went to viait the
English nunnery there, and the lady Abbess
finding me very pliable and inclinable, made
very much of me, and I did adhere to her.
She kept me six weeks in the convent, and after-
wards when I went away, recommended mc to
sir John Warner, as an instrument fit to be em-
ployed in the carrying of letters, or doing any
thing that would promote the design against
England. He kept me at Sr. Omers a fortnight
and after sent me to Father Harcourt to be in-
structed in my employment. It was then winter;
the next spring he sends me into England with
divers letters, where by Mr. Harcourt I was
employed to carry several letters to Morton
ana Do way, and other places: that summer I
was sent into England without an answer: but
»fterwards,in 1676, which was the next summer,
I was to carry another pacquet of letters to the
monks at Paris, who sent it to other £ngli*b
Monks in France
L.C.J. Who sent that pacqnet of letters in
1676 ?
Bedlow. I had it from Mr. Harcourt, and it
was written by Harcourt, Pritchard and Cary.
L, C. J. To whom ?
Bedlow. To the English Monks in France,
and in it there was a letter to La Chaise. Upon
the receipt of these letters at Paris La Chaise
had a consultation with the Monks and a French
bishop or two about them ; I did not then
speak French enough to understand what it
was they said, but it was interpreted to me by
Mr. Staplcton an English Monk, who told
me that it was a letter . from my lord Bellasis
and others of the Catholic religion, English
gentlemen that were contrivers of the plot here,
to satisfy them in what state things stood in
England as to popery. I was sent back again
with a pacquet of letters directed to Mr.
Vaughan of Courtfield in Monmouthshire.
L.C.J, From whom was that?
Bedlow. From the English Monks at Paris.
Prom that consultation I went to Pontbois,
i there received other letters to carry into
England, I had a course to open their letters,
and read what was in them ; and in those let-
tfers was contained, that the prayers of that
house were for the prosperity of that design,
and they would not mil to be at the consulta-
tion at ■ ■ of Warwickshire gentlemen.
I fell sick at Monmouth, and Mr. Vaughan
tent to me a Jesuit to confess me ; but I was
well before be came, and so was not confessed
by him. I now come to the latter times. .
' I. C. J. You mast speak it over to the
J#ry, that they and the prisoners may hear you.
&dlow. The 26th of May, I6T7, which was
last year, I was sent over with another pacquet
of letters. I had no letters of consequence
forward, and therefore did not call then at
Wotrun, but I called upon the lady Abbess at
Him kirk, and I went thence to Bruges and to
Ghent, where I had some letters for the Eng-
lish nuns, which I delivered to thtni. When I
came to Dowav, T found there that the monks
were gone, that was Sheldon, Staplcton, and
Latham, but the letters were directed to Paris,
and therefore I made haste, and at Cambray I
overtook them. And the letters were to give an
account of the consultation held in the gallery
at Somerset-house : All tending to the destruc-
tion of the Protestant religion, and killing the
king ; but I do not think fit to declare here
who were the persons that ware present at that
consultation. At Cambray they were very joy-
ful that there was so good n proceeding in Eng-
land. At Paris when the letters were shewed,
there was a letter written in a language which
I did not understand, but, as I was told, in that
letter they wfrre charged in Paris by my lord
Bellasis, that they did not proceed according to
their promise to them in England ; but, said
Stapleton to mp, Myionl Bellasis nor the so-
ciety in England need not to write thus to us,
for we nre not so backward but that we can
lend men, nnd money, and arms too, and will
upon occasion. Fiom the.nce they sent me to
Spain with a letter to an Irish Father : I did
overtake him at Sa Mora. From thence I went
with another letter to the rector of a College
of Irish Jesuits in Salamanca. By their con-
trivance I wsb sent to St. Jago in Spain, where
was another college of Irish Jesuits : there I staid
till I bad an answer lo sir William Godolphin ;
and when I had the answer to that letter, I
went for the letter from the rector at Sala-
manca. The Jesuits there told me, they would
take care to send their own answer another way ;
And w hen they had made me that promise,* I
came away for England, and landed at Milford-
Haven ; AH this reaches to none of those per-
sons in particular ; But what I now shalk say
shall be about them, only it was necessary I
shoeld speak of what I have said.
L. C. J. The meaning of all this is only to
shew the Jury and satisfy them, that he was
an agent for these men, and hath been employ-
ed by them for five years together, and he names
you the particular places whither he hath been
sent, to shew you the reasons of his knowledge
in this matter, and upon what account he cornea
to be informed of this design,
Bedlam. Having received the news of that
country, I did there take water, and landed
again at Pensans, and when I came to London
I gave the letter to Harcourt : what was in that
pacquet I cannot particularly tell, for I was
not so inquisitive as to look into the contents
of it, but I know it was tending (as all the rest
did) to the carrying on of this plot : Afterwards
I was employed by Harcourt and Coleman to
go to some parts of England to commaoicat*
the letters to some of the popish petty,
L. C. J. Now turn to the Jury.
106] STATE TRIALS, 30 Ciiakles II. ltt8<— «m! Gtvcc, for High TVcwen. [IK)
Bedkm. The Summer nw pa6t in the doing
of that : In the beginning of August tat* there
wasa constitution and a close one at tfurcourl'B
chamber, so as that they did not permit we to
know any thing of it. I went out of town for
a fortnight, and when I relumed, I understood
there had been such a meeting ; I charged
them with their privacy in it, aud asked what
was the private design of that consultation ;
they said it was something I should know in
tine : That it did not signify much at present,
hat in time I should know it : But theu I un-
derstood by Pritchard, who was more my con-
fident than any of the rest, thnt it wa* a de-
sign to kill the king : That Pickering and Orove
had undertaken it a great while, and that they
had been endeavouring a long while to bring it
to pass.
temcick. Where was tljis meeting, and when ?
Bedhm. Last Augu?t,at Harcourt's chamber.
FcJtmrick. Who were present there ?
Bedlow. Be pleased to give me leave to go
oa ; I will tell you by and by : Then I understood
as I said, that it was to kill the king, bat that
Pickering and Grove railing of it, they had
Isred fbar ruffians that were to go to Windsor,
and do it there and that if I would come the
next day, I ebould hear from Coleman the
effect ; When I came there I found Coleman
was gone but Pritcbard said there were some
seat to Windsor, and that Coleman was go-
ing after them, end that he had given a mes-
senger a guinea that was to carry the mo-
ney to them. And he would presently be after
them, for fear they should want opportunity to
effect their design. Then I discoursed them,
why they kept their design so long hid from
me ? They said it w as a resolve of the society,
and an order of my lord Bellasis, that none
should know it but the society, and those that
were actors in it. I seemed satisfied with that
answer at present. About the latter end of
August, or the beginning of September, (bnt I
believe it was the latter end of August) I came
to Harcourt's chamber, and there was Ireland
and Pritcbard, and Pickering, and Grove.
X. C. J. What part of August was h ?
Bedim?. The latter end.
JL C.J. Do you say if positively, that it was
the latter end of August.
Be/Horn. My lord, it was in August ; I do
not swear positively to a day.
L. C J. But you say it was in August ?
Ireland, And that we were there present ?
Bedlow. You were there, and Grove, and
Pickering.
Ireland. Did you see me before?
Bedlam. You were present there, and Orove,
and Piekefing, and rritchard, and Fogarthy,.
and Harconrt, and I.
X. C. J. What did you talk of there?
3*4ltm. That the ruffians missing of killing
the ling at Windsor, Pickering and Grove
shooJd go on, and that Conyers should be jpin-
•d with them ; and that was to assassinate the
king in bis morning walks at Newmarket : and
they bad taken it so strongly upon them, that
they were very eager upon it : And Grave was
•snore, forward thau the rest : And said, since it
could net be done clandestinely, it shoald be
alternated openly. And that ihotrthat da ml|,
bad toe ptery to die in a good cause. But
(said he) if it be discovered, the discovery can
never cease to that height, but \beir party
would be strong enough to bring it to pass.,
X. C. J. And yen swear Ireland was there ?
Bedlow. He was there, my Lord.
X. G. J. And beard all this ?
Bedlow. Yes, my Lord ; and so did Grov*
and Pickering, and the rest.
Ireland. Aiy Lord, I never saw htm before
in my life.
X. C. J. What was the reward that you
were to have for your pains in this business?
Bed tow. My Lord, the reward that I was
to have (as it was told me by Harcoart) was
very considerable : I belonged to one particu-
lar part of the society. There are others; and
I presume* they each kept their particular
messengers.
X. C» J. What was Grove to- have ? *
Bedlow. Grove was to have fifteen hundred
pound, if he escaped, and to be a continual
favourite, and respected as a great person by
all the church.
X. C. J. What was Pickering to have?
Bedlow. He was to have so many masses,
I cannot presume to tell the number ; but they
were to be as many, as at twelve pence a mass
should come to tiiat money : These masses
were to be communicated to all the .results
beyond (he seas, that when he had done it, he
might be sent away immediately.
X, C. J. What can you say of any of the
rest?
Bedlow. My lord, I do not charge any
more but them three.
X. C. X What say you to Whitebread ?
Bedfow. They have said, that he was very
active in the plot ; but I know it not.
X. C. X That is not any evidence against
him. What can you say, as to Fenwick ?
Bedlow. No more than I have said, as to
Mr. Whitebread : I only know him by sight.
X. C. J. Then -he charges only these three
upon oath, Ireland, Pickering, and Grove.
Ireland. Do you know sir John Warner ?
Bedlow. I know Father Warner at St.
Omers, and sir John Warner at Wotton by
St. Omers.
Ireland. He named sir John Warner to be
at Paris.
Bedlow. It was Sheldon I spoke of (my
lord) at Paris.
Ireland. At least you are certain, that I
was present at that consultation.
Bedlow. Yes : I am certain, you were
there.
Ireland'. Can you produce any witnesf,
that you ever spoVe to me before in your
life ?
Mr. Sen. Baldwin. Do you know any
thing of Mr. White bread's being present «
any of the consults?
Ill] STATE TRIALS, 30 Chau.es II. 1 678.— TWo/ of Ireland, Metering, [1 12
Bedlo*. . I do know, that Whitebread,' and
Fenwick both, have been several times at
consultations; bat I do not know what the
particular resolves of those consultations were.
X. C» J. Did you ever hear them speak any
thing in particular ?
Bedlow. No, . I have never heard them
•peak any thing in particular.
X. C. J, Where have you seen Fenwick?
Bedlow. I have seen Fenwick at Harcourt's
chamber, and I have often heard him talked
of; and it hath been told me, That nothing
was done without Fenwick.
Whitebread. Are you sure yon know us ?
Bedlow. I do not say, you are the man that
employed me : you are the man I was least
acquainted with, of all the society ; but I have
seen you tl\ere.
Ireland. Can you bring any one that can
testify it?
X. C. J. He must then have brought one
of yourselves ; and it may be, be cannot pro-
duce any such one.
Ireland. Nor no one else, except such a
knight of the Post, as Mr. Oates.
X. C. J, You must be corrected for that,
Mr. Ireland : You shall not come- here to
abuse the king's evidence. Nothing appears
to us, that reflects upon * Mr. Oates's testi-
mony ; and we. must not suffer any such sort of
language.
Mr. Just. Atk. Take off his credit as much
as you can by proof, but you must not abuse
him by ill language.
Mr. Finch. Can you tell the court and the
jury, when it was that by agreement Grove
jhoald have the 1,500/.
Bedlow. He was to have it put into a friend's
hands*
L.C. J. Do you know that friend's name ?
Bedlow. No, my lord, I do not.
Mr. Finch. Do you know when that was to
be delivered out to him ?
Bedlow. As to the particular time of their
agreement, I do not know it.
Mr. Finch. But this he says, That when
the agreement was made, he was to have
1,500/T
. X»- C. J. And he says this, That Ireland
was in August last, with Pickering and Grove,
and others, at a consult ; where be was also.
Ireland. But what if I prove I was not in
London all August last, from the beginning to
.the end.
X. C. J. You heard them talk of this
matter in August, at Harcourt's chamber, you
say I What, did they talk of it as a matter they
had agreed?
Bedlow. My lord, they brought it in, as
being baulked in their design of killing the
king at Windsor ; and because that had not
taken the effect they intended it, they should
have Conyers joined to them, to do it at New-
market.
Mr. Finch. Did they tell you when, and
where the agreement was made ?
X. C. /. No, he speaks not of that; but
they talked of the failure at Windsor : And
therefore they did conclude, that Conyers
should be joined to them, to do it at New-
market.— Bedlow. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Have you any more to say ?
Bedlow. My lord, I would only say this ;
If I had any to prove what I say, they mu»t be
parties as well as these persons.
Ireland. My lord, I will prove, That I
was not in town in August all the month, by
twenty witnesses : I will bring those that saw
me in Staffordshire, and spoke with me all
August.
X. C. /. 'Have you any more to ask him ?
Whitebread. No.
Sen. Baldwin. Swear Mr. William Bedlow.
And he was sworn.
Ireland. He does say, That be was familiar
with me, and several other persons here ; and
therefore, I desire he may specify the place, and
the company.
William Bedlow. I do not say, there was a
familiarity ; for I was a stranger to that part of
the society.
X. C. J. You must take him right, Mr. Ire*
land ; he hath not said, that he was of your fa-
miliar acquaintance.
Bedlow. I have seen you often, sir.
Ireland. Where ?
Bedlow. At Monsieur le Faire's.
Ireland. W here was that ?
Bedlow. At Somerset-house.
Ireland. Was there any one present besides ?
Bedlow. Yes, several other priests and Je-
suits of Somerset- house.
Ireland, Name one.
Bedlow. Siguior Perrare.
Ireland. You say, you saw me and Perrare
together at Somerset-house, I suppose, if siguior
Perrare may be brought hither
Bedlow. My lord, Perrare is a priest in or-
ders ; and without doubt is in this business.
X. C. J. If he did see you, he must see yon
in such company as you keep, they were priests
and Jesuits, and of your own religion ; and we
know very well what answers we are like to be
put off with by men of your own persuasion at
this time of day.
Ireland. My lord, if no body's oath can be
taken that is of another persuasion than the
church of England, it is hard.
X. C. J. Pray mind you do not object inge-
nuously : for you say, This witness swears he
saw me in such company, why does he not pro*
duce them to testify it ? Why ? he does not
come prepared to produce them ; if he should,
we know well how you ore concerned one for
another at this time ; and we can hardly expect
they should make true answers. But notwith-
p standing, if you will produce this Father Per-
rare, (he cannot be sworn because it is against
the law, but} his testimony shall be heard, and
let it go as rar as it can.
Bellow. If your lordship pleases, my lord, I
would convince him that he does know me.
Have you not been, sir, atSomemt*bo,ose r
«3\ STATE TRIALS, SO Chaelm U. 1678 — «irf Gtove, Jbr Higk Tnxtxm. [114
Irekad, Yes, I tmve.
BaUow* Do you know le Faire and Perrare?
htkasL Yea, but I uever sair you in their
jcoapaay in Somerset-house in my life, above
once or twice.
Bediow. Yea, you have twice at le Faire's.
L. C. J. Where is that le Faire? You would
do well to produce him ?
Bedlow^ My lord, he is gone away, and is
eee against whom the king's proclamation is out.
-L- C. J. You keep such company as run
away, and then you require biui to produce
them, whom the king's proclamation cannot
bring, in.
Ireland* I keep none but honest company.
Bedlam. If your lord»bip pleases, I have one
thing more that is very material to speak ; at
the same time that there was a discourse about
these three gentlemen's being to destroy the
king at Newmarket, at the same time there was
a dsscourse of a design to kill several noble per-
sous, and the particular parts assigned to every
one. Knight was to kill the earl of Shaftsbury,
f*ritehard the duke of Buckingham, Oneile the
earl of Ossory, Obrian the duke of Ormond.
L. C. J. Well, will you have any more of
tins?
Mr. Finch, Yon say, you saw Mr. Ireland
say mass, where did you see him ?
Bedlow. Not Mr. Ireland, but Mr. Fenwick,
I bare seen- him say mass, and at Wild- ho use.
Oales. My lord, I did omit a consult wherein
there was a design laid of taking away the duke
of Ormond's life,' and of a rebellion that was to
be raised in Ireland. My lord, in the month of
January last, there came letters from archbi-
shop Talbot to London, which letters were pe-
rused, by Fenwick, and Ireland, and White-
bread, and when they were perused, they were
sent and* communicated to the Fathers at St.
Outers. The contents of those letters were tlias,
That the Catholics bad a fair prospect of effect-
ing their designs in the kingdom of Ireland.
And this letter was inclosed in a letter signed
by Whitebread, Ireland, Fenwick, and others,
1 same no man's name that is not here.
X. C. J- You saw the letter ?
Oales. Yes, I did see it, and read it, wherein
they did gfve thanks* utito God, that he was
pleased to prosper their designs so fairly in Ire-
land ; and withal they did say, that they would
not leave a stone unturned to foot out that abo-
miaable heresy out of that kingdom. Now what
that abominable heresy was, I have nothing hut
a conjecture.
L C. J. We all know what tbat is well
enough, there needs no proof of that.
Gates. In the month of1 August, Fenwick, a
little before he went to St. Outers, on the 21st
er* August, (as I think it was) that week that
Bartholomew- fair began on (as I take it) he was
then going to fetch home the provincial, and to
carr some students with him, and he went
totoSt. Omen the Monday following; hut then
Aeie was a c^nMilt, and at that consult Fen-
, tick did cooaeut to the contrivance of the death
' if the duke of Ormond/ and for the rebellion
fOL, VJJ.
that was to be raised Jn Ireland after his death.
And he did approve of the four Jesuits that
were to kill my lord of Ormond, and did cod*
sent to send Foganhy down to the archbishop
of Dublin, in case the four good Fathers did not
hit the business. Mr. Whitebread, my lord,
did consent when he came over, as appears by
their entry-books. For there come a letter from,
him dated as from St. Omers, but I concluded
it did not come from thence, because it paid
but two-pence.
Whitebread. Who was it that writ that letter?
Oates. My lord, this letter was dated ay the
latter part of August, and dated as from St*
Omers, but the post mark upon it was but two-
pence, to be paid for it; so that I do conclude
thence Mr. Whitebread was then at esquire
Leigh's house in Bat in that letter
he did like the proposal that was made about
killing the duka of Ormond in that consult., ami
the letter was signed with bis own hand.
L. C. J. I would gladly see that letter.
Oates. If 1 could see it, I could know it. '
X. C. J. You hare not that fetter ?
Oates. No, but they kept a book wherein
they registered all their resolutions, and there it
was entered.
L. C. J. You upon your oath say, That be
as superior of them did keep a book, wherein
they registered all their consults?
Oates. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. You would do well to shew .us your
book, Mr. Whitebread.
Whitebread. We never kept any.
Oates. The consult did ; for though the su-
perior have an absolute power over the subject,
yet they never do any thing of consequence
without the consult. And this book was kept
by the superior, and never opened but at the
consul t, and therein all the passages were regis-
tered.
L. C. J. Produce your book, and we shall
see whether you cannot catch Mr. Oates in
something or other.
Bedlow. My lord, that book I have seen;
and therein all their consults are registered.
L. C. J. Was their books kept by them?
Bedlow. Yes, my lord, all the consults did
keep books, and Mr. Langhorn was the person
that registered all into one.
L. C. J. If a' hundred witnesses swear it,
they will deny it. Well, will yon have any more?
Mr. S. Baldwyn. My lord, we will now call
Mr. James Bedlow, this gentleman's brother, to
shew you, that these *ort of pewons did. resort
to him frequently.
L. C. J. Are you sworn, sir?
J. Bedlow. Yes, my lord, I am.
L. C. J. Then let tne ask- you one short
question. Do yon knortr Mr. Ireland ?
J. Bedlow. No. •
L. C. J. Do yon know Pickering or Greyer1
J. Bedlow. I have heard of them.
L. C. J. Did your brother know any thing
of them ?
J. Bedtow* As for the conspiracy of kulinsj
I
U&] 1ST ATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1 678— Trio/ qf Ireland, Pickering, [1 10
the ting, I know nothing of it ; but about bis
knowledge of Priests and Jesuits, and the con-
verse be bad beyond sea, that I can speak to.
And I have very often heard these men'* names
named. v
L. C. J. In what nature did he talk of them?
J< Bedlow. I know notlting of tbe Plot, and
as for any Design I knew not what my brother
knew, but I have heard him talk of them.
i. C. J. Htf w did he talk of them ?
J. Bedlow. tie mentioned them as hit ac-
quaintance, the Jesuits there did ask him ques-
tions about them.
L. C. X And did it appear to you they were
of his acquaintance?
J. Bedlow, But I understood nothing of the
Plot or Design, by tbe oath I h«ve taken.
L. C. J. But did he Speak as if he knew any
of them?
J, Bedlam, For any certain knowledge that
f&y brother had of them I cannot speak, but I
have often heard him talk of them as people I
thought he knew.
Mr. Finch. Do you know, that when he
came over from beyond sea, that his lodging
was frequented by any, and by whom?
J. Bedlow. Yes; there were many priests and'
Jesuits came to him.
Mr. Finch. Did your brother receive an/
money from them ?
J. Bedlow. Yes, my lord, I have fetched
many score of pounds for my brother from
them.
L. C. J. The use, gentlemen, that the king's
council make of this evidence, is only to shew,
That his brother Mr. Bedlow was conversant
in their affairs, in that he hath received many a
score of pounds in the managing of their busi-
Sir Cr. Levin*. Pray, from whom had your
brother that money ?
J. Bedlow. I have proved that from the
goldsmiths themselves that paid it, before the
duke of Monmouth, my lord chancellor, and
lord treasurer.
Mr. Finch. Have you received any consi-
derable sum at a time?
J. Bedlow. Yes, I have.
Mr. Finch. How much ?
J. Bedlow. Fifty or threescore pounds at a
time.
Finch. Of whom?
J. Bedlow. Of Priests and Jesuits.
Finch. For whom ?
J. Bedlow. For my brother.
L. C. J. Will you have any more evidence ?
Mr. Serj. Baldwyn. Yes, my lord, ihe next
evidence we produce, is. concerning a letter ;
there was a letter written by one Mr. Peters,
that is now a prisoner, to one Tonstail a Jesuit;
and this letter does mention, That there was a
meeting appointed by order of Whitebread to
be at London.
L. C. J. What is that, to them, and how
come you by it ?
Serj. Bafdwun. Peters is now in prison for
things of ibis mature ; and you have heard of
one Harcourt, and out of his study this letter
was taken. * x
W. Bedlow. My lord, may I not have liberty
to withdraw? My head akes so extremely, I
cannot endure it.
L. C. J. Mr. 'Bedlow, you may sit down,
but we cannot part with you yet. -
Ireland. I desire, my lord, that his brother
may be asked, how long lie had known me.
L. C. J. Cari you recollect by the discourses
you have heard, how long he might have known
Ireland ? »
J. Bedlow. No/ my lord, it was out of my
wav.
1. C. J. But did be talk of Ireland?
J. Bedlow. Yes, my lord, he did.
Ireland. As being where, in what place ?
J. Bedlow. I cannot tell.
Ireland. He named one place three years
ago, it was at Paris.
L. C. J. But he does not say that you were
there, but that yon were familiarly talked of
there; so that the meaning is, tltey were ac-
quainted with you : And this is only brought to
shew, that it is not a new- taken- up thing by
Bedlow, though you seemed never to have
known any such man ; yet be swears, saith lie,
I have heard such persons talked of as my bro-
ther's acquaintance.
Ireland. If his brother had talked of me
three years ago, why then he must have know*,
me three years ago.
L. C. J. I will ask him that question : How
long is it since you knew him?
W. Bedlow. I have known him bur since
August this same last summer ; but, my lord, I
talkt five, and four years ago of several English
Monks and Jesuits that were then at Rome,
that I never knew in my life.
L. C. J. His answer then is this, saith hie
brother, I have heard him talk of them three
years ago; .1 then asked Bedlow, how long be
had known them? saith he, I did not know
them three years ago, though I did talk of theoi
three years ago; for we have talkt of many
that we never saw in our lives : So it seems he"
had occasion to make use of your names fre-
quently, and join them with those of some lie
knew better : But he never knew you 'till
August last ; but he did discourse of you three
years ago, as known lor such sort of persons. _
Ireland, tie must hear somebody speak of
us, as being in some place or another.
W. Bedlow. I will satisfy you in that. We
talk of some now in England, that are to be
sent a year hence.
L. C. J. If you can produce but Harcourl
and Le Faire, they will do you great service
now.
W. Bedlow. Mv lord, as for example, FatUei
Pritchard is confessor to such a gentlemao ii
England now this year ; a year hence we onus
send such a one hither, and he must go bach
And we may talk of that person as in Eugland
two years before.
L. C. J. You need not trouble yowrselvc
about that. Mr. Ireland, you shall have a fai
lit] STATE TRIALS, SO Chaelbs fl. 1678.— and Grow, for High Treason. [1 1$
trial, tat yoa will not have conning or art
eaeagh to deceive the jury, nor will Mr. White-
bread bave learning enough to baffle the court.
TUn Mr. W. Bedlow and his Brother withdrew.
Serj. BalHwtfn. My lord, Tlie next evidence
that we shall give, as I said, is a letter from one
Peters to one Tonstall, and this we will bring
tome to Mr. Whitebread. for it is an invita-
tion to he at the consult held -at London the
24th of April ; and it was written about that
very time, to wit, the 3d of April. It was
written from London, and it mentions, tint
Mr. Whitebread did fix the meeting at that
time. We will tell you how we came by the
letter. Mr. Ilarcoort, who is one of the prin-
cipal-persons here, and at whose house was
the meeting you heard of, he himself is fled
away, when they came* to look after him upon
the discovery that was made : And Mr. Brad-
ley, who was the messenger to sejie upon him,
did according to direction search his study, and
did there find this letter, winch we conceive,
my lord, to be very good evidence ; this Har-
coart being a party, and one at whose house
toe /ast meeting was, and others was. We do
cosceife a letter from one of that party, beiir-
iag date about the same time, concerning Mr.
Wbitebread's Summons, who was master of I ho
Company, is very good evidence against them.
L.C.J. If you had found it ia Mr. White-*
bread's custody, you say something.
Just. Bertie. My brother puts it so : We
find a letter directed to Mr. Whitebrcnd, let
the matter of it be what it will, it is found
among Harcourt's papers.
Serj. Baldwin, No, my Lord ; we find a
letter from one Mr. Peters now a prisoner, di-
rected to Mr. Tonstall concerning the consult
samsaoned by Wuitebread, and this we find in
HaicourVs possession.
L. C. J. I cannot understand how this may
afect Mr. Whitebread.
Mr. Finch. Pray, ray Lord, if your lord-
ship please, this is the use we make of this let-
ter; we do not produce it as another evidence
of this design, but to fortify that part of the
evidence which hath already been given,
Thai there was a consult summoned at that
one, and to be held with all the privacy that
could be, to pi event discovery. And this is
the paper that we find in the custody of Har-
cocrt, one of th conspirators, who is fled for it.
Lb C. X Look you, Mr. Finch, if you use
it not against any particular person, but as an
evidence in general that there . was a plot
amongst them, yon say light enough ; but it
cannot be evidence against any one particular
person of the prisoners at the bar.
Mr. Finch. My lord, it can affect no par-
tjcolar (person,; but we only use it in the gene-
ral, and we pray it may be read.
L. C. J. Gentlemen of the jury, before you
star the letter ready I would say this to you,
Let them hare fair play ; whatsoever they
Bete onto others, we will shew them justice.
They shall have as fair play upon their trials
as any persons whatsoever. The tiling that is
offered to be given in evidence, is a letter writ-
ten by one Peters a prisoner for ibis, plot, and
directed to one Tonstall a Jesuit, and this is
found in Harcourt's chamber, a priest that is
fled, and one whom the king hath commanded
to render himself by his proclamation ; but he
docs not. Now in that letter there is a dis-
course of a design and plot on foot. This caa-
not be evidence to charge any one particular
person of these ; hut only to satisfy you and
all the world, that those letters and papers that
are found amongst their own priests, do for-
tify the testimony of Mr. Oates, that there is
a general plot : It is not applied to any parti*
cular person.
Oates. The day before the consult met, Mn
Whitebread did ask Mr. Peters whether he had
summoned the consult according to his direc-
tion. Mr. Peters told him, Yes, he had writ
into Warwickshire and Worcestershire.
Whitebread. When was this ?
Oates. The day before the consult met.
Whitebread. l5id you hear me ask Mr.
Peters ?
Octet. Yes,. I did hear you, and I did hear
him say he had done' it. Now, my Lore], this
letter that is found in Harcourt's" study shews,
that Mr. Whitebread had directed Mr. Peters in
this consult. ,
Serj. BalHon/n. Pray swear sir Tho. Dole-
man to shew how he came by it. Which was
done.
Serj. Baldpyn. Sir Thomas Dolcman, what
do you know of this letter ?
Sir Tho. Dolcman. This letter in my hand
was taken amongst Harcourt's papeis, in a
great hag of paper ; and searching them I did
find this letter amongst the rest.
Then the letter was shewn to Mr. Oates.
L. C. J. Is that Mr. Peter's hand?
Oat a. Ye% my lord, it is.
L. C. J, Were you acquainted with his hand?
Oates. Yes, my Lord, I have often read \/L
in letters.
L.C.J. Do you know Tonstall ?
Oates. My Lord, I do not know him by
that name ; If I did see him, perhaps 1 might
I know men better by their faces.
Sir Cr. Levins. Pray read it.
CL of tht Cr. This is dated February 33,
1677. And superscribed thus, (u These jortys
honoured friend Mr. William Tonstall at Bur-
ion.") v „
*' Honoured dear Sir,
' I have but time to convey these following
* particulars to you. First, I am to give you
1 notice, that it hath seemed fitting to our
' Matter Consult, Prov. &c. to fix the 21st day
' of April next Stylo veteri, for the meetiug at
1 London of our congregation, on which day all
1 those that have a suffrage are to be present
' there, that they may be ready to give a begin-
' ning to the same on- the 24th, which is ibe
.' ne^t after St. GeorgeVday. You are warned
' to have jus tvffragii, and therefore if your
1 occasions should not permit youto.be pre*
119] STATE TRIALS, SO Chabum II. l67*.—7Ht/ of Ireland, Jfefartg, [tSQ
* sent, you are to signify as much, to the end
* others in their ranks be ordered to supply
* your absence : Every one is minded also, not
* to hasten to London long before the time ap-
* pointed, nor to appear much about the town
' until the meeting be over, lest occasion should
4 be given to suspect the design. Finally,
* secrecy, as to the time and place, is much re-
* commended to all those that receive summons,
* as it* will appear of its own nature necessary/
X. C. J. So it was very necessary, indeed.
CL qfCr. There is more of it my Lord.
' Tertiopro domino tolono disco
* Benrfact. Prov. Lunieruit.
* I am straitened for time, that I can only
'assure you, I shall be much glad of obliging
* you any ways, Sir, your servant
Edward Petrb,
u Pray my service where due, &c."
X. C. J. You know nothing of this letter,
Mr. Whitebread ?
Whitebreud. No, my Lord, nothing at all.
X. C. J. Nor you, Mr. Ireland ?
Ireland. It is none of my letter, my Lord.
X. C. J. Did you never hear of it before I
Ireland. Not that I know of in particular.
X. C. J, Well, have you done with the
evidence for the king ?
Serj. Baldwyn. Pray, sir Thorn as Doleman,
•viH you tell my Lord, did Mr. Gates give in
this testimony of the consult, to be the 24th of
April, before this letter was found t
Sir J! Doleman. Mr. Oates gave in his in-
formation about this matter; ' to the king and
toonnci!, four or five days before we found this
letter.
Serj. Jialdwyn. You were speaking of the
teals that were made use of to sign com-
missions, have you them in the Court ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, they are in the Court,
end they were taken out of the Provincial's
chamber.
Whitebread. I confess they had the seals out
of my chamber ; but the taking .of them was
tnore than they had power to do.
Then the Seals were shewn to the Court and
the Jury.
Mr. Finch. It bath been told you already,
gentlemen, what use these seals were put unto ;
to seal commissions to raise an army. And
ire have now done with our evidence for the
)ting( until we hear what the prisoners say.
X. C. J. Before you come to make your de-
fence, I will do that which I think iii justice
and honesty, and according to the duty of my
place and ray oath, I ought to do ; that is, to
•ay something to the jury, before the prisoners
make their own defence. Here are five that
stand indicted of hi^h-treason : I must tell you
this, That as to three of them, that i« to say.
Ireland Pickering and Gi ve, b»th Mr. Oates
ami Mr. Bedlow have sworn the thing flat
ppOn them: Mr. Oates hi* testimony is full
•gainst ihetn aU ; bat Mr. Bedlow does only
agree with him to charge three, and that 4 n this
particular : saith he, I was present at Har-
court's chamber when Ireland was there, and
Pickering and Grove, where they discoursed of
their defeat about their design against the king
at Windsor ; and there they came to a new/
agreement, to do it at New-Market. So that
here is now, as the king's counsel did open it
to you at the first, as there ought to be, two
witnesses ; so here are two, which though they
speak as to a different circumstance of time,
)et they prove one treasonable fact at several
times: tor if killing -the king be the fact in
question, and one proves they would do it by
ooe thing, and another by another ; and one
in one place, and another in another ; yet these
are two witnesses to prove one fact, that is, the
substance, which is, the killing of the king.
So that there are two witnesses against them
three, expressly proving a confederacy to kill
the king : for Ireland's being by, and con-
senting, was the same thing, and as mucb,
as if he had been to do it with Grove
and Pickering; for there are no accessaries
iu treason. I do acknowledge, that Mr.
Oates hath given a very full and ample
testimony, accompanied with all the cir
enmstances of time and place, against tfaesn
all, that may go far to weigh with you, all
things considered, to believe there is a Plot ;
yet I do not think that they have proved it
ugainst Whitebread and Fen wick by two wit-
nesses : so that though the testimony be so full,
as to satisfy a private conscience, yet we must
go according to law too. It will be conve-
nient, from what is already proved, to have
them stay until more* proof may come in : it is
a great evidence that is against them ; but it
not being sufficient in point of law, we dis-
charge vou of them ; it is not a legal proof to
convict them by, whatsoever it may be to sa-
tisfy your consciences. Therefore remove Mr,
Fen wick and Mr. Whitebread from the bar,
and let the other three say what they will for
themselves.*
L. C. Baron. (William Montague, esq.)
(speaking to' the gaoler,) you must understan .
they are no way acquitted ; the evidence is so
full against them by Mr. OateVs testimony, that
there is no reason to acquit them. It is as flat,
as by one witness can be ; and the king hath
sent forth a proclamation for further discovery;
before the time therein prefixed be out, no-
quest ion there will come in more evidence r
therefore keep them as strict as you can.
Then Whitebread and Fen wick were taken
back to the gaol by the keeper.
L. C. J. Now, gentlemen, yon shall have
liberty to make your full defence.
Ireland. First, I shall endeavour to prore
there are not two witnesses against me: -for
that which he says, of mv being at Harcourt'a
chanher in August, is false ; for I will prove
* See the account of their Trials, June 18t
1619, infra, ipd the Note thereto*
mi STATE TRIALS, 30 Charlk* II. 1678 — mi Grope, far High Treason. [132
1 was all August long out of town, for I was
then m Staffordshire.
X. C. J. Call your witnesses.
Ireland, ir there be any of them bere.
X. C. J. Whoever comet to give evidence
for you, shall go and come in safety ; they
Shall not be trepanned for anj thing of that,
hot they shall be heard.
Ireland* My lord, we are kept so strict,
that we are not permitted to send tor auy body.
L. C. J. As soon as your sister came to me,
I ordered she should have access to
you,
and
that yon should have pen, ink and paper, in
order to your defence ; therefore call those
witnesses yon have, to prove what you say.
Ireland. I can only say this, That last An*
gnat apon the 3rd day I went down to Staf-
ssrdehire with my lord Aston, and his lady,
aad his son, and sir John Southcot and his
lady, and all these can testify that I went
down with them. Here is Mr. John Aston in
town, j( he may be found, who was in my com-
pany aU August in Staffordshire.
Is. C. I. Will yoo call that gentleman ?
Crier, call him.
drier, Mr. John Aston.
Ireland. It is an hundred to one if he be
here ; for I hare not been permitted so much
as to send a scrap of paper.
X. C. J. Your sister had leave to go to
whom yoo thought fit, in your behalf. Yoo
said yon would prove it. Why don't you r
Ireland. I do as much as I can do.
X. C. J. What, by saying so ?
Ireland. Why, I do name them that can
testify.
I*. C. J. If naming them should serve, yoo
most have a law made on purpose for you.
Ireland. Then there is no help for mno-
To save him that labour, the
sing's evidence will prove, that he was m town
at chat time.
Serj. Baldwin. Swear Sarah Paine. Which
j. Baldmyn. My lord, this person was Mr.
Grove's maid.
LC. J. I believe you know your maid, Mr.
Grove, don't you i Look apon ber, she was
your servant.
Grave. Yes, my lord, she was so, she is not
so now.
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Ireland ?
Sarah Paine. Yes, my lord.
L. £. J. Do you know whether Mr. Ireland
was in town in Aogast last, or no ?
& Paine. I saw him at his own house about
a week before I went with my lord Arlington
to Windsor.
X. C. I. When was that ?
& Paine.: That was about a week after the
king was gone thither.
X. C.-J. Sir Tho. Doleman, what day was it
the king was gone thither ?
Sir T. Doleman. About the fSth of August.
L. C. J. Thirteen and seven is twenty ;
then yoo swot to Windsor about tbe 30th, it
7
seems, and you say that eight days before-yon/
saw Mr. Ireland at his own house ?
S. Paine. Yes, my lord, about eight or nine
days before that, 1 did see him at the door of
his own house, which was a Scriveners in .
Fetter-Lane. Us was going into his own
lodging.
X. C. J. How long had yon known him be-
fore that time ?
S. Paine, My lord, I knew him, for became
often to our house, when I lived at Mr. Grove's ;
he was the man that broke open tbe pacquet
of letters that my master carried about after-
wards, and he sealed all the pacquets that went
beyond tbe seas. And he opened them still t
when the answers returned back again.
Ireland. Now must all tbe people of soy
lodging come and witness that I was out of my
lodging all August.
X. C. J. Call them.
Ireland. There is one Anne Ireland.
X. C. J. Crier, call her.
Crier. Anne Ireland : Here she is.
It. C. J. Come, mistress, what can you say
concerning your brother's being out of town in
August?
A. Ireland. My lord, on Saturday tbe 3rd of
August he set out to go into Staffordshire.
X. C J. How long did bo continue there ?
A. Ireland. Till it was a fortnight before
Michaelmas.
X. C. J. How can you remember that it
was just the 3rd of August ?
A. Ireland. 1 remember it by a very good
circumstance, because on the Wednesday be-
fore, my brother and my mother, and I, were
invited out to dinner; we stayed there all night,
and alt Thursday night, and Friday night my *
brother came home, and on Saturday he set
out far Staffordshire, .
h. C. J. Where was it, maid, that you saw
him ?
S. Paine. I saw him goiog in at the door
of their own house.
X. €. J. When was that?
S. Paine. About a week before I went*
with my lord chamberlain to Windsor, which
was a week after the king went thither.
X. C. J. That must be about tbe 12th or- %
13th. Are you sure you saw him ?
. S. Paine. Yes, my lord, I am sure I saw him..
X. C. J. Do you know this maid, Mr. Ireland?
Ireland. I do not know her, my lord.
X. C. J. She knows you by a very good
token. . You used to break open the letters at
her master's house, and to seal them.
S. Paine. He knows roe very well, for I have
carried several letters to htm, that came from
the carrier as well as those that came from be*,
yond sea.
X. C. X They will deny any thing in the
world.
Ireland. I profess, I do not know her.
Twenty people may come to me, and yet I not
knew tnein ; and the having been Mr. Grove's
servant, may have brought me letters, and yet
I not remember ber. Out, my tofdjwere is my.
133] STATE TRIALS, SO Charles II. 167$. —Trial qf Ireland, Pickering, - [13*
mother Eleanor Ireland, that can testify the
same.
L. C.J. Call her then.
Crier. Eleanor Ireland.
E. Ireland. Here.
L. C. J. Can you tell when your son went
out of town ?
E. Ireland. He went out of town the 3rd
of August, towards Staffordshire.
Ireland. My lord, there is Mr. Charles Gif-
ford will prove that I was a week' after the be-
ginning of September, and the latter end of
August in Staffordshire.
L. C. J. That will not do : for she says
that she saw you in London about the 10th or
12th of August; and she makes it out by a cir-
cumstance, which is better evidence than if she
had come and sworn the precise day wherein
she saw him ; for I should not have been satis-
fied, unless she had given me a good account
why she did kuow it to be such a day. She
does it by circumstances, by which we must
calculate that she saw you about the 12th or
13th day. She went to1 my lord Arlington's
at such a day, a week after the king went to
Windsor, and that was about the 13th, and she
saw , you a week before she went to my lord
Arlington's, which must be the 12th or 13th.
Yon say you went out of town the 3rd of
August ; who can swear you did not come
back again?
Ireland. All the house can testify 1 did not
come to my lodging.
E. Ireland. He went out of town the 3rd
of August, and did not return till a fortnight
before Michaelmas.
L. C. J. Did you lie at his bouse?
E. Ireland. 1 did then, my lord.
L.C.J. What, all that while?
E. Ireland. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. So did your daughter too, did she?
jE. Ireland. Ye*s,' she did.
Ireland. • There are others that did see me
the latter end of August in Staffordshire.
L. C. J. And you would fain have crampt
him up, between the 20th and 31st; and then,
it is possible, yon might be in Staffordshire.
Ireland. If I might have been permitted to
send in for such .witness as I would have had,
I conld have brought them.
Recorder. Why, have you not a note of
what witnesses you are to call? Why don't you
call them according to that note?
Ireland. I had that but this morning.
L. C. J. Why,- did you not send /or them
before, to have them ready ?
Recorder. It is his sister that brings that
note of the witnesses that he should caH, and
now they are not here.
A. Ireland. There was one Engletrap, and
one Harrison, bad promised to be here, that
went with him into Staffordshire.
Oate$. My lord, whenever we had a mind
to come to town, we commonly writ our letters,
and let them come to town two days after us.
So that we might prove by the writing of such
letters, if any question did arise, that we could
not be at such a place .at such a time. And
when we pretended to go into the country, we
have gone and taken a chamber in the city,-
and have had frequent cabals at our chare hers
there. Mr. Ireland writ a letter as dated from
St. Oniers, when I took my leave of him at his
own chamber, which was betwixt the l?ilt and
24th in London. He was there; and after-
wards when I went to Fenwick's chamber lie
came thither; a fortnight or ten days at least, I
am sure it was in August.
L. C. J. Here are three witness upon oath
about this one tfring : Here is Mr. Bedlow that
swears the fact, upon which the question arises
to he in August; that you deny, and say
you were out of town then . he produces a
maid here, and she swears that about that time
-which by calculation must be about the 11th or
12th,*she saw you going into your own house.
And here is a third witness, who swears he
knows nothing of this matter of fact, but he
knows you weregn town then, and that he took
his leave of you as going to St. Omers.
Oates. Whereas he says, that the beginning
of September he was in Staffordshire, he was io
town the 1st of September, or 2nd * for then
I had of him twenty shillings.
Ireland. This is a most false lye ; for I waa
then in Staffordshire. And the witnesses con-
tradict themselves ; for the one saitb, he took
his leave of me, as going to St. Omers the 12th ;
the other saith, it was the latter end of August
I was at Harcourt's chamber.
L. C. J. He does not say you went, but you
pretended to go.
A. Ireland. Here is one'Harrison, that was m
coachman that went with them.
L. C. J. Well, what say you, friend ? 'Do you
know Mr. Ireland ?
Harrison. I never saw the man before that
time in my life, but I met with' him at St.
Albans.
L.C.J. When?
Harrison. The 5tb of August. There I met
with him, and was in a journey with bim to
the 16th.
L. C. J. What day of the week was it ?
Harrison. Of a Monday.
L. C. J, Did he come from London on* that
day ?
Har. I cannot tell that But there I met
him.
L. C. J. What time ?
Har. In the evening.
L. C.J. Whereabouts in St. Albans?
Har. At the Bull-inn where we lodged.
L. C. J. Mr. Ireland, you say you went on
Saturday out of town, did you stay at St. Albans
till Monday?
Ireland. No, I went to Standon that day, and.
lav there on Saturday and Sunday night ; on
Monday I went to St. Albans.
X. C. J. What from thence?
• This was the perjury assigned in the first
count of the indictment upon which Oates was
convicted, May 9th, 168& See the thai »*/**<*•
126] STATE TRIALS, SO Charles II. 1678.— a*<* Grove, for High Treason'. [126
btUtmi. Yes my lord.
L. C.J. Why did you go thither? Was that
u jour way ?
Ireland* I went thither for the company of
iff John Southcot and his lady.
JL C. J. How did you kuow that they went
thither ?
Ireland. I understood they were to meet my
lord Aston, and lady, there.
X. C. J. What, on Monday night ?
Ireland. Yes my lord.
. Hot. From thence I went with hits to Tix-
weJ, to my -lord Aston's house, there we were
all with him.
JL C. J. Were yoa my lord Aston's coach-
man?
Har. No, my lord, I was servant to sir John
Sooibcot.
X. C. /. How came yoa to go with them ?
Har. Because my lord Aston is my lady
Sosthcot's brother.
X. C. J. How long was you in his company ?
Hot. From the 5th of August to the 16ib,
and then I was with him at West-Chester.
Mr. Just. Atkins. You have not vet talked
•f being at West- Chester all this while.
' Ireland. My lord I mast talk of my journey
bj degrees.
L. C. /. Before you said you were#all August
in Staffordshire ; come, you must fin'd out some
evasion for Chat.
'Ireland. In Staffordshire, and thereabouts.
X. C. J. You witness, who do you live with ?
Har. With sir John Southcot.
X. C. J. Who brought you hither ?
Har. I came only by a messenger last night,
I* C. J. Was not sir John Southcot in that
journey himself ?
Har. Yes my lord, be was.
X. C. J. Then you might as well have tent
to sir John Southcot himself to come.
A. Ireland. I did it of myself; I never did
such a thing before, and did not understand
the way of ic
Ireland. It was mere chance she did send
for those she did.
I*. C. J. Bat why should *he not send for sir
John himself?
Ireland. She did not know that sir John was
X, C. J. Yoo were not denied to send for any
witnesses, were you ?
Ireland. I was expressly denied ; they would
not let me have one bit of paper.
X. C. J. Fellow, what town was that in
StaJSbrd&hire ? tell me quickly.
Har. It was Tixwell, by my Lord Aston's ;
there we made a stay for three or four days,
then we went to Nantwich, 4md so to West-
Chester.
X. C. J. Were not you at Wolverhampton
wkh him ?
Har* No, my Lord, I was not there, I left
&» at West-Chester.
Ireland. My Lord, I was at Wolverhampton
**h Mr. Charles Gifford, and here he is to at-
tetir.
L. C. J. Well, Sir, what say you?
Gijfovd. My Lord, I saw him there, a day or
two nfter St. Bartholomew's day, there he con-
tinued till the 9th of September; the 7th of
September I saw him there, and I cau bring
twenty and twenty mpre, that saw him there.
Then, as be said, he was to gd towards London,
I came again thither on the 9ih, and there I
found him. And this is all I have to say.
Oatet. My Lord, I do know that day in
September I speak of by a particular circum-
stance.
Irttand. My Lord, there is one William
Bowdrel, that will testify the same, if I might
send for him.
L. C. J. Why han't you him here.
Ireland. She hath done what she can to
bring as many us she could.
X. C. J. Have you any more witnesses to
call.
Ireland. I cannot tell whether there be any
more here, or no.
X. C. J. Mr. Grove, what say you for your-
self?
Grave. Mr. Oates says be lay at my house;
my Lord I have not been able to send for any
witnesses, and therefore I know not whether
there be any here. They could prove that he
did not lie there. He says he saw me receive
the Sacrament at Wild- house, hot he never did;
and if I had any witnesses here, I could prove it.
. X. C. J. He tells it you with such and such
circumstances, who lay there at that time.
Grove. He did never lie there.
X. C. J. Why, you make as if you never
knew Mr. Oates.
Grove. My Lord, I have seen him, but he
never lay at my bouse.
X. C. J. Mr. Pickering, what say you for
yourself? You rely upon your masses. %
Pickering. I never saw Mr. Oates, as I know
of, in my lire.
X.* C. J. What say you to Bedlow ? He tells
you he was with you in Harcourt's chamber such
a day.
Pickering. I will take my oath I was never
in Mr. Bedlow's company in all my life.
L.C. J. I make no question but you will ;
and have a dispensation for it when you have
done. Well, have you any witnesses to call ?
Pickering. I have not had time to send for
any.
L. C. J. You might have moved the court,
when you came at first, and they would have
given you an order to send for any.
Ireland. Methinks there should be some
witnesses brought that know Mr, Oates, to attest
his reputation; tor I am told, there are those that
can prove very ill things against him, they say
he broke prison at Dover.
X. C. J. Why have you not your witnesses
here to prove it ?
Ireland. We could have had them, if we had
time.
X. C. J. See what you ask now ; you would
have time, and the jury are ready to go toge-
ther about their verdict.
12?] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles 11. 1678.— Trial qf Ireland, Pickering, [MSj
Ireland. Why, we desire but a Httie time to
make out our proof, .
L. C. J. Only you must tye up the jury, and
they roust neither eat nor drink tillMhey give in
a verdict.
Ireland. Then we must confess, there is no
justice for innocence.
L. C. J. Well, if you have any more to say,
say it.
Ireland. My Lord, I have produced witnes-
ses thai prove w hat I have said. •
L. C. J. I will tell you what you have proved,
"you have produced your sister and your mother
and the servant of Seuthcot ; they say you went
out the 3rd of August, and he gives'an account
you came to St. Albans ou the 5th, and then
there is another gentleman, Mr. GifFord, who
says he saw you at Wolverhampton till about a
week in September. Mr Oates hath gainsaid
him in that, so you have one witness against
. Mr. Oates for that circumstance, It cannot
be true what Mr. Oates says, if you were there
all that time, and it cannot be true what Mr.
Gifford says, if you were in London then. And
against your two witnesses, and the coachman,
there are three witnesses, that swear the con-
trary, Mr. Oates, Mr. Bedlow, and the maid;
so that rf she and the .other two be to be be-
lieved, here are three upon oath against your
three upon bare affirmation.
Ireland. I do desire time, that we may bring
in more witnesses.
£. C. J. Come, you are better prepared
than you seem to be. Call whom you have to
call. Can you prove that against • Mr. Oates
which you speak of? If you can, call your wit-
nesses, in God's name, But only to asperse,
though it be the way of your church, it shall
not be the way of trial amongst us. We know
you can call Heretics, and ill names, fast
enough.
Ireland. ' That Hilsley that he names can
prove, if he were here, that Mr. Oates was ail the
while at St. Omers.
L. C. J. • Will you have any more witnesses
called ? If you will, do it, and do not let *us
spend the time of the court thus.
Grove. Here is Mrs. York, that it my sister,
will your lordship please to ask her, whether
the saw that gentleman at my house ?
L. C. J. What say you Mistress ?
York. No, my lord, not I.
' Mr. Just. Atk. Nor I neither ; might not
he be there for all that ?
Oates. To satisfy the court, my lord, I was
in another habit, and went by another name.
L. C. J. Look you, he did as you all do,
disguise yourselves.
Ireland. Though we have no more wit-
nesses, vet we have witnesses that there are
more witnesses.
L. C.J* I know what your way of arguing
fa; that is very pretty; you have' witnesses
that can prove you have witnesses, and those
witnesses can prove you have more witnesses,
and so in infinitum. And thus you argue in
every thing you do.
■
s
Ireland. We can go no further than we can
go, and can give no answer to what ire did not
know would ho proved against us. .
L. C. J. Then look you, gentlemen-
Ireland. My lord, sir Denny Astiburnham '"
promised to be here to testify what be can say
Concerning Mr. Oates. l
L C. J. Call him.
Crier. 6ir Denny Ashburnham. Here
he is, my lord.
L. C. J. Sir Denny, what can you say
concerning Mr. Oates?
Sir D. Ashburnham. My lord, I received a
letter this morning, which I transmitted to Mr.
Attorney, and this letter was only to send t<S
me a copy of an indictment agnuist Mr. Oates
of perjury : I did send it accordingly with my
letter to Mr. Attorney. He bath seen the let-
ter, and what the town says to me in it.
Att. Gen. (Sir William Jones.) I have
seen it, there is nothing in it.
L. C. J. Do you know any thing of yout
own knowledge ?
Sir D. Ashburnham. I do know Mr. Oates,
and have known him a great while ; I have
known him from his cradle, and I do know
that when he was a child, he was not a per-
son of that credit that we could depend upon
what he said.
L. C. J. What signifies that ?
Sir D. Ashburnham. Will you please to hear
me out, my lord f* I have been also solicited by
some of the prisoners who sent to me, hoping
I could say something that would help tbein in
this matter: Particularly last night one Mis-
tress Ireland, sister to the prisoner at t(*e bar,
a gentlewoman I never saw before in my life,
she came to me, and was pressing me hard,
that I would appear here voluntarily to give
evidence for the prisoner. I told her, No, \
ivpuld not by an/ means in the world, nor
could I say any thing, as I thought, that would
advantage them; for I told her, though, per-
haps, upon my knowledge of Mr. Oates fa his
youth, had this discovery come only upon Mr.
Oates's testimony, I might have had some lit*
tie doubt of it ; but it was so corroborated witti
other circumstances that had convinced me,
and I would ,not speak any thing against the
king's witnesses, when I myself was satisfied
with the truth of the thing : And I do think
truly that nothing can be said against Mr.
Oates to take off his credibility; but what I
transmitted to Mr. Attorney, I had from the
town of Hastings, for which I serve.
L. C. L What was hi ihat indictment ?
Sir D. Ashburnham. It is set forth, that lie
did swear the peace against a man, and at his:
taking his oath did say. that there were some
witnesses that would evidence such a point o!
fact, which, when they came, would not tes-
tify so much, and so was forsworn.
L C. J. What was done upon tltat indict
ment r
Sir D. Ashburnham. They did not proceei
upon it ; but here is the letter and the copy o
the indictment.
t€9] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II.
Mr. Serjeant Baldwin. My ford, wt dcstrtf
it any be read, and Me what it is.
AH. Gtn. It is only a certificate, pray let
k be rend.
JL C J. I do not think it authentic evi-
Alt% Gen. But if I consent to it, it may
be nod.
L. C. J. If you will read it for the prison-
ers you may, you shall uot read it against them.
If there be any strain, it shall be in favour of
the prisoners, end not against tbem.
Alt. Gem. It is nothing against the prison-
ers, nor lor tbem ; but hot? ever, if your lord-
ship be not satisfied it should be read, let it
L. C. J. Truly, I do not think it is sufficient
evidence, or fit to be read.
A. Ireland. I went to another, col. Shakesby,
who was sick, and could not coirie, but could
bare attested much as to this.
L. C. J. Have yon any more witnesses ?
IreUmd. I have none, nor I bare not time
tabling them in.
L. C. J. If yon have none, what time could
bare brought tbem in ? But you have called a
gentleman that does come in, and truly be hath
doae you very great service ; you would have
bad bim testified against Mr. Oates; be saith
be hath kaowo him ever since be was a child,
and that then lie had not so much credit as
now be bath : And had it been upon his single
testimony that the discovery of the plot had
depended, he should have doubted of it ; bat
Mr. Oates1* evidence, with the testimony of
the tact itself, and all the concurring evidences
whicb.be produces to back bis testimony,
hath convinced him that he is true in his nar-
Sir D. Atkburnkam. Your lordship is right in
what I have spoken.
L. C. J. Have you any snore witnesses, or
any thing more to say for yourselves?
iriand. If I may produce op my own be-
half pledges of my own loyalty, and that of my
L. C. J. Produce whom you will,
btUmd. Here is aiv sister and my mother
tan tell how our relations were plundered for
sidiag with the king.
L. C. /. No, I will tell you why it was; k
was for being papists, and you went to the king
fa shelter.
JnaVme*. I bad an uncle that was killed m
feksns/s service ; besides, thePendrels and the
Oiaaidi that were instrumental for saving the
king, after the fight at Worcester, are my near
L. C. J. Why, all those am papists.
Pickering. My father, my lord, was iufied
in the king's party.
L. C.J. Why then do yon fall off from your
father's virtue?
Pickering. I have not time le produce wit-
nesses on soy own behalf.
Irelnnd. 1 do define time to bring mow wh>
vou VII.
1678 — am} Grove, for High Treason. [110
Grave. As I hare a soul to save, I know
nothing of this matter charged upon me.
X. C.J. Weil, have you any thing more to
soy ?
Ireland. No, My Lord.
L. C. J. You of the kii*g's counsel, will you
sum up the evidence ?
Mr. Serj. Baldwyn. No, my lord, we leave
it to your Lordship.
Cl.qfCr. Crier, make proclamation of si-
lence.
Crier. O Yes! All manner of persons arc
commanded to keep silence upon pain of im-
prisonment. '
Then the Lord Chief Justice directed the Jury
thus :
L. C. J. Gentlemen, you of the jury ! As
to these three persons, Ireland, Pickering,
Grove, (the other two you are discharged oi)
one of them, Ireland it seems, is a priest. I
know not whether Pickering be or no ; Grove
is none, but these are the two men tiwa should
kill the king, and Ireland is a conspirator in
that plot. 'They are all indicted for conspiring
the king's death, and endeavouring to subvert
the government, and destroy the Protestant Re-
ligion, and bring in popery. The maia of the
evidence hath gone upon that foul and black
offence, endeavouring to kill the king. The
utmost end was, without all question, to bring
in Popery, and subvert the Protestant religion;
and they thought this a good means to do it,
by killing the king. That is the thing you have
bad the greatest evidence of. I will sum up the
particulars, and leave tbem with yon. --It is
sworn by Mr. Oates expressly, That on the
34th of April last there was a consultation
held of priests and Jesuits. They are the men
fit only for such a mischief, for I know there
are abundance of honest gentlemen of that pert
suasion, who could never he drawn to do any
of these things, unless they were seduced bar
their priests, that stick at nothing for their own
end : he swears expressly, that the consult was
began at theWhite- Horse tavern in the Strand,
that they there agreed to murder die king ; that
Pickering and Grove were the men that were
to doit, * bo went afterwards and subscribed
this holy league of theirs, and signed it every
one at bis own lodging, Whitebread at hia, Ire-
land at his, and Fenwmk ot bis, two of which
are out of the case, but they are repeated to
you only to shew you the order of the con-
spirecy* That afterwards Pickering and Grove
did agree to the -same, and they received the
sacrament upon it as an oath, to make all sa-
cred, and a seal, so make all secret.
Mr. fiediow hath sworn as to that particular
time of killing. the king by Pickering and Grove
though they were not to give over the design*
but there were four that were ' sent to kill the
king at Windsor. Mr. Oates swears there was
an attempt by Pickering in March last, hot
the mat of the pistol happening to be loose, he
durst not proceed, for which he was rewarded
with penance. He swears there were fonr hired
K
tti] STATE TRIALS, 30 Cbasles IL 1 67^— Trial <tf Inland, Pickering, [1*2
to do it ; that fourscore poinds was provided
forebear Ht saw the money: and swears
bt saw it delivered to the messenger to <;arry it
down.
Ireland. At what time was- that ?
L. C. J. In August there was an* attempt
first by Pickering and Grove. They then not
doing of itfour other persons ('Irishmen) were
hired to do it, aod 10,000/. proffered to sir
George Waketnan to poison the king. Thus
still they %go on in their attempts, and, that
being .too little, 5,000/. more was added. This
is to shew you the gross of the plot in general ;
and also the particular transactions of these
two murderers Grove and Pickering, with the
conspiracy of Ireland. Bedlow swears directly
that in August last, these three and Harconrt,
and Pritchard and Le Faire, being all together
in a room, did discourse of the disappointment
the four had met with in not kilting the king at
•Windsor ; and there the resolution was the old
stagers shoold go on still, but they had one
Con vers joined to them, and they were to kill
the king then at Newmarket. He swears they
did agree to do it ; that Ireland was at it ; and
that all three did consent to that resolve. So
that here are two witnesses that speak positively
with all the circumstances of this attempt, of
the two to kill the king, and the confederacy of
Ireland, all along with them. Now, • I must
tell you, there am no accessaries, but all prin-
cipals, in Treason. It may seem hard, perhaps,
to convict men upon the testimony of their
fellow-offenders, and if it had been possible to
bare brought other witnesses, is> had been well:
bet, in things of this nature, you cannot expect
that the witnesses shoold be absolutely spotless.
You must take such evidence as the nature of
the thing will afford, or you may have the king
destroyed, and our religion too. For Jesuits
ore too subtle to subject themselves to too
plain a proof, such as they cannot evade by
equivocation, or aflat denial.
There is also a letter produced, which, speak-
ing of the consult that was to be the 24th of
April, proves that there was a conspiracy
among tnem : And, although it is not evidence
to convict any one man of them, yet it is evi-
dence upon Mr. Oates's testimony to prove the
general design. It is from one Petre to one of
the confederates, and taken amongst,Harconrt's
papers, after Mr. Oates had given in his testi-
mony; and therein it is mentioned, That the
superior* hud take* care, that there should be a
meeting the 24th of April, the day after Saint
Qeorge's day, which is the very time Oates
speaks of; and that they were not to come to-
rn wn too soon, that the design might not be
discovered. 1 would fain know what the sig-
nification of that clause may be. And then it
goes farther, That it was to be kept secret, as
thenatare of the thing doth require; which
shews plainly there was such a transaction on
foot. But the reason I urge it for is, to shew
you that it is* concurrent evidence with Mr.
Oates, who had never seen this paper till three
or fee* days after tab Jsrbrmation wsughreji in,
wherein* he swears the time when this agitation
was to be, and* when they came to look optfn
the paper, 4t agrees with the time precisely.
Now they do not write in this letter, that they
intend to kill the king, but they write to cau-
tion them to keep the design undiscovered, and
by that you may guess what they mean.
What is said to all this by the prisoners, bat
denial ? Ireland cannot deny bat that he knew
Mr. Oates, and had been in his company some-
times; five times, by circumstances, Mr. Oates
bath proved, so that they were acquaintance ;
and it appears plainly, there was a familiarity
between them. Ireland objects, that Bedlow
charges him in August, when he was out of
town all that time, and that therefore the tes-
timony of one of the witnesses cannot be true.
And, to prove this, he calls his mother, bis
sister, and sir John Southern's man, and Mr.
Gifford. His mother and sister say expressly,
that he went out of town the 3rd of August,
and the servant says, that he saw him at Saint
Albans the 5th of August, and continued in bis
company to the 16th (so that as to that, there
is a testimony both against Mr. Bedlow and
against Mr. Oates) ; and Gifford comes and
says, be saw him at the latter end of August
and beginning of September at Wolverhamp-
ton ; whereas Mr. Oates bath sworn, he saw
him the 12th of August, and the 1st or 2nd of
September, and tells it by a particular circum-
stance, wherein, I most tell you, it is impossi-
ble that both sides should be true. But if it
should be a mistake only in point of time, it de-
stroys not the evidence, unless you think it ne-
cessary to the substance of the thing. If you
charge one in the month of August to hare
done such a fact, if he deny that he was in
that plnce at that time, and proves it .by wit-
nesses, it may go to invalidate the credibility
of a man's testimony, but it does not invalidate
the truth of the thing itself, which may be true
in substance, though the circumstance of time
differ. And the question is, whether the thing
be true?
Against this, the counsel of the king have
three that Swear it positively and expressly,
That Ireland was here, here is a young maid
that knew him very well, and was acquainted
with him, and with his breaking up of letters ;
and she is one that was Grove's servant : Sbe
comes and tells you directly, That about that
time, which, by computation, was about the
18th of August, she saw him go into bis own
house ; which cannot he true, if that be true
which is said on the other side; and sbe doe*
swear it upon better circumstances than- if she
had barely pitched Upon a day ; for she must
have satisfied me weU, for what reason she
could remember the day so positively, ere I
should have believed her : But she does it, re-
membering her going, to my lord Arlington's
service, which was a' week after the king went
to Windsor ; which is sworn to be about the
13th of August, and a week before her gsfaf
it was that she saw Ireland at his awn rloot.
What aitsr they have of evading this, I know
IS] STATE TRIAUS, 30 Charts II. I67$^w4 Grnx, M High Tr***m. [Itt
«*; fer aathey 4mmm turned their learning into
sskiki, so the j have tbeir iategritv loo. The
atari; of politics is their business and art, which
they sake use of opon all occasions ; and 1 6nd
tfcra learned chiefly in cunning, and very sub-
lie ia their evasions. So that too see, without
s/eet. difficult y9 av man cannot have from them
a plain answer to a plain question. Bat the
net against them is here expressly sworn by
oio witnesses ; if you have any reason to dis-
believe them,. I most leave that to you. Sir
D. AshburahaiD, who is produced to discredit
Mr. Oates, says, that when be was a child,
there wa» little or no credit to be given to him,
and it the matter bad depended solely upon his
temmooy, those irregularities of his, when a
soy, would have staggered his belief. But
when the matter is so accompanied with so
aany other circumstances, which are material
ttaiags, and cannot be evaded or denied, it is
simost impossible for any man, either to make
such a story, or not to .believe it when it is told.
I know not whether they can frame such a
one; I am sure never a Protestant ever did,
and, 1 believe, never would invent such a one
to take away their lives : Therefore it is left to
yoar consideration what is sworn : The cir-
cosostances of swearing it by two witnesses, and
what reasons you have to disbelieve them.
It is most plain the Plot is discovered, and
that by these men ; and that it is a Plot, and a
vaJainous one, nothing is plainer. No man of
common understanding, but most see there
was a conspiracy to bring in Popery, and to
destroy the Protestant religion ; and we know
their doctrines and practices too well, to be-
lieve they will stick at any thing that may ef-
fect those ends. They most excuse me, if I be
plain with them; I would not asperse a pro-
session of men, as the priests are, with burd
words, if they were not very true, and if at this
time it were not very necessary. If they had
not murdered kings, I would not say they would
bare done ours. But when it bath been their
practice so to do ; when they have debauched
men's understandings, overturned all morals,
and destroyed all divinity, what shall I say of
them ? when their humility, is such, that they
tread opon the necks of emperors ; their cha-
nty such, as Co kill princes; and their vow of
poverty such, as to covet kingdoms, what shall
I judge of them ? when they ^ave licences to
be, and indulgeacies for nushoods ; nay, when
they can make him a saint that dies in one,
and then pray to him; as the carpenter first
makes an image, and after worships it ; and
can then think to bring in that wooden religiou
of theirs amongst us in this nation, what shall I
rhmk of them ? what shall I say to them ? what
shah* I do with diem?
If there can do a dispensation fjpr the takiog
of any oath (and divers instances may be given
of it, that their church does license them to do
10) it is a cheat upon men's souls, it perverts
sad breaks off all conversation amongst man-
kind ; for bow can we deal or convene in the
world, when there is no sin, hot can be in-
dulged ; no offence so big, but thef can pardon
it, and some of the blackest be accounted me-
ritorious? what is there left for mankind to
lean upon, if a sacrament will not biud them,
unless it be to conceal their wickedness ? If
they shall take tests and sacraments, and aH.
this under colour of religion be avoided, and
signify nothing, what is become of all con-
verse f How can we think ohligutions and pro*
mises between man and man should hold, if a
coveoant between God and man will not ?
We have no such principles nor doctrines ia
our Church, we thank God. To use any pre-
varication in declaring of the truth, is abomi-
nable to natural reason, much more to true re-
ligion ; and it is a strange Church that will al-
low a man to be a knave, hi* possible some
of that communion may be saved, but they caa
never hope to be to in such a course as this. I
know tbey will say, That these are not their*
priuciples, nor these their practices, but they
preach otherwise, they print otherwise, and
their councils do determine otherwise.
Some hold, that the Pope in council is infal*
lible ; and ask any Popish Jesuit of them all,
and be will say the Pope is infallible himself,
in cefieoVo, or he is no right Jesuit. And if so,
whatever they command is to be justified by
their authority; so that if they give a dispensa-
tion to kill a king, that king -as well killed. This
is a religion that ouite unhinges all piety, all
morality, and all conversation, and -to be aba*
minuted by all mankind.
They have some parts of the foundation, it is
true; but they are adulterated, and mixed with
horrid principles, and impious practices. They
eat their God, they kill their king, and saint the
murderer. They indulge all sorts of sins, and
no human bonds can hold them.
They must pardon me if I seem sharp, for a
Papist in England is not to be treated as a Pro-
testant ought to be in Spain : And if ye ask me
wby ? I will give you this reason ; We have no
such principles nor practices as they bave. If
I were in Spain, I should think myself a very iU
Christian, should. I offer to disturb the govern*
mem of the place where I lived, that I may
bring in my religion there. What have I to do
to undermine the tranquillity and peace of a
kingdom, because all that dwell in it are not of
my particular persuasion ?
They do not do so here, there is nothing caa
quench the thirst of a priest and a Jesuit, not
the blood of men, not of any, if he can but pro*
pagate his religion, which in truth is but bis in-
terest.
They hsve not the principles that we have,
therefore they are not. to have that common
credence, which our principles and practices
call for.
They are not to wonder, if they keep no fekh,
that they have none from others ; and let them
say what they will, that tbey do not own any
such things as we charge opon them, and are
like to go bard with them ; for we can shew
them out of their own writings and councils,
that they do justify the power of the Pope in
MS] STATE TRIALS, 50 Ch akles If. 1 676 — Trial of Ireland, Picketing, [ IM
excommuoidating letup* in tfcposimrthem for
heresy, and absolving their subjects from their
allegiance. And the claim of authority both of
' Pope and council, is the surest foundation they
build upon.
I have said so much the more in this matter,
because their actions are so very plain and
open, and yet so pernicious; and it is a very
great providence, that we, and our religion, are
delivered from blood and oppression. I believe
our religion would have stood, notwithstanding
their attempts, and I would have them to know
we are not afraid of them ; nay, I think we
should have maintained it, by destroying
of them. We should have been all in blood, it
is true^ but the greatest effusion would have
been on their bide ; mid without it, how did
they hope it should have been done? There are
honest (gentlemen, I believe hundreds, of that
comm union, who could uot be openly won upon
to engage in such a design. They will not tell
them that the 'king shall be killed ; but they
will. insinuate unto them, that he is but one
man, and if be should die, it were fit they were
in readiness to promote the Catholic religion ;
and when it conies to that, they know what to
do. When they have got them to give money
to provide arms, and be in readiness on their
specious pretence, then the Jesuits will quickly
find them work. One blow shall put them to
exercise their arms; and- when they have killed
the king, the Catholic cause mast benniuitained.
But they have done themselves the mischief,
and have brought . misery upon their whole
party, whom they have ensnared into the de-
sign, upon other pretences than what was really
at the bottom. A Popish priest is a certain se-
ducer, and nothing satisfies him ; not the
blood of kings, if it standi in the way of his am-
v bition. And I hope they have not only unde-
ceived some Protestants, whose charity might
incline them to think them not so bad as they
are ; but I believe obey have shaken their re-
ligion in their own party here, who will be
, ashamed in time that such actions should be
put upon the score of religion.
I return now to the fact, which is proved by
two witnesses, and by the concurrent evidence
of the Utter and the maid ; and the matter is as
plain and notorious as can be, That there was
an intention of bringing in popery by a crael
and bloody way; for I believe (hey could never
have prayed us imo their religion* I leave it
therefore to you to consider, whether you have
not as much evidence from these two men, as
can be expected in a case of this nature; and
whether Mr. Gates be not ratter justified by
the testimony offered against him, than discre-
dited. Let prudence and conscience direct
your verdict, and you will be too hard for their
art and cunning. *
Gentlemen, If you think yon shall be long,
we will adjouru the Court till the afternoon, and
> takeyour verdict then.
Jury. No, my lord, we shall not be long.
#
Then an Officer was sworn to keep the Jury
safis, according, to law, and. they withdraw to-
consider of their Verdict.
After a very short recess, the jury returned,,
and the Clerk of the crown spake to them
thus :
CL of Cr. Gentlemen, answer to your names. ■
Sir William Roberts.
Sir W. Robert*. Here. And so of 4 he rest.
CL of Cr. Gentlemen, Are you all agreed in
your verdict ?
Omnes. Yes.
CI. of Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omuet. The foreman.
CI. ofCr. Set William Ireland to the bar-
William Ireland, hold up thy Rand. Look upon
the, prisoner. How say you, is he Guilty or*
the high- treason whereof he stands indicted,
or Not Guilty ?
Foreman. Guilty.
CL of Cr. What goods aod chattels, lands er
tenements i
For em**. Nooe to oar knowledge.
CL of Cr. Set Thomas Pickering to the bar.
Tho. Pickering, hokl up thy band. Look upon
the prisoner. How say you, is he Guilty of tbe
same high-treason, or Not Guilty ?
Forema*. Guilty.
CL of Cr. What goods or chattels, leads or
tenements ?
Foreman. None to our knowledge.
CL of Cr. Set J»»hn Grove to the bar. John
Grove, hold up thy, hand. Look upon I ho
prisoner. How say you, is lie Guilty of tbe
same high- treason, or Not Guilty ?
Foreman. Guiity.
CL ofCr. What goods er chattels, lands or
tenements ?
Foreman. None to our knowledge.
CL ofCr. Hearken to your verdict, as the
Court hath recorded it. You say that William
Ireland is Guilty of the high-treason % whereof
he stands indicted. You say that Thomas:
Pickering is Guilty of the same high-treason.
You say that John Grove is Guiky of the earns*
high-treason. And lor them you havo found
Guilty, you say, That they, nor any oi them,
had any goods or chattels, lands or tenements,
at the time of the high-treason committed, er
at any cime since, to your knowledge. And so
you say ail.
OjKJMf. Yes.
L. C. J. You have done, gentlemen, liks>
very good subjects, and very good Christians,
that is to say, like very good Protestants s
aod now much good may their thirty thousand
Mosses do them.
Then the Court adjourned by Proclatnatiom
till four in the afternoon.
In the afternoon the same day.
About five of the clock Mr. Recorder and a
sufficient number of the justices returned into
the Court, the judges being departed home ?
and Proclamation was made for attendance, as
in the morning.
Then the Clerk of the Crown catted for the
1K\ STATE TRIALS 3d Cimali* U. 1 67a.-naed Qroite* fim High Itooio*. [!»:
ptisoaen convicts* of tjis^trsftswa, eadtsok*
to eacb of them thus:
CltfCr. Set Wiltiam Ireland to the bar.
WUhaa Inland, hold up thy hand. Thou
sttsdest convicted of high-treason ; what const
tho* say for thyself, why the Court should not
give thee judgment to die according to law ?
Ireland. My lord,. I represented all along
foe* the beginning, that we had not time co
call in oar witnesses to justify our innocence.
Recorder. If you have aoy thing to say in
stay of judgment, you have all free liberty to
say it-
Ireiamd. We had no time allowed us to
bring in ear witnesses, so that we could have
■one, hot only those that came in by chance ;
and those things they have declared, though
tree, were m»t4>eheved.
Recorder. Thee© things, Mr. Ireland, yon
did not object before the jury gave their ver-
dict ; now thee have given their verdict, and
freed yen Guilty, if you have any thing to
say to the Court why they should not proceed
to judgment according to that verdict, yoo may
speak it ; but fur these things it is too late.
Ireind. My lord, I only have this to say, I
desife mere tirae to be heard again, and to
cail in my witnesses.
Jtaarefcr. Call the Eiecutioner to do his
brland. There are testimonies, my lord,
that I could produce of my loyalty, and my
wessons fidelity to the king.
Recorder. I believe, Mr. Ireland, it will be
a shame to ail your relations that have been
loyal to the king, that you should be privy to
the sawder of that good king whom your rela-
tions so well served ; and therefore if that be
all that yoa have to say, it' will signify nothing.
The Eiecutioner not appearing, the sheriff
of Middlesex was called to come into Court,
aad give attendance, upon pain of 40/. Dut the
Eseoouoner coming in, was, with a reproof
from the Recorder for his negligence, cotn-
assjseed to tie him up, which he did.
CI. efCr. Set Thomas Pickering to the bar.
Thomas Pickering, hold up thy band. Thou
art in the sasse case with the prisoner last
before thee ; what canst thou say for thyself
why the Coon shoald not give thee judgment
to die according to law ?
Recorder. What does he say for himself?
Opt. Mieketrdson. He has nothing to say.
JUcerifer. Then tie him op.
CL ef Cr. Set John Grove to the bar. John
Grove, bold up thy hand. Thou art in the
same esse with the prisoner last before thee,
what canst thou say r»r thyself, why the Court
shoald not give thee judgment to die according
to law ?
Grow. I am as innocent as the child un-
born.
■CL afCr* Tie him qp— Which was done.
€7. ofCr. Criers en both sides, make Pro-
clamations.
Criers. O yes ! AH manner of persons are
eaamanded to koep-suonee whilst judgment is
giving,' upon pain ef hnprisoojnent :. peace
about the Conic
Recorder. Where is the keener t Shew am
the prisoner*, William Ireland, Thomas Pick*
ering, and John Grove.
Capt. Rithardw*. Those are the three.
Reeorden. Yoo, the prisoners at the bar,
you have been arraigned for a very great
offence, the greatest that can he committed
against any authority upon earth, for high-
treasoa against your king, with all the aggra*
votions that possibly can attend so great a
crime as that is ; for yoa did not only strike at
the life of the best of kings, hut you intended
the subversion of i he best of religions. What-
ever yoo may apprehend, yet all men that will
lay their hopes -of salvation upon any thine thai
is fit for a man to lay his hopes upon, which is
upun the merits of a crucified Saviour, and not
upon your Masses, tricks or trumperies, do
abhor the thoughts of promoting their religion :
by massacring kings, and murdering their sub-
jects. And though we whom you call Here-
tics, abhor to own any such religion ; yet we
are not afraid to tell you, aad all others who
are ensnared into your principles, we will main-
tain the religion and the government as it is
established, with our lives and fortunes. And
it is fit that it should be known, that we who
live under the government of so mild and pious
n prince, and in a country where so good, so
moderate a religion is established by few, will
not be affrighted by all your murders, conspi-
racies and designs, from declaring, that they
who dare kill kings, and massaore their sub-
jects, are the highest violators, not only of the
laws of the land, but of that great law which
all good Christians and Protestants think them*
selves obliged to pay great reverence and obe-
dience to, I mean ' the law of God Almighty
himself.
Thus I speak to you, gentlemen, not vannt-
ingly, it is against my nature to insult upon
persons in your sad condition ; God forgive '
you for what yon hare done, and 1 do hear-
tily beg it, though you do not desire I should;
for, poor men, you may believe that your in-
terest in the world to ooine is secured to you
by your Masses, but do not well consider that
vast eternity yoa must ere long enter into, and
that great tribunal you must appear before,
where his Masses (speaking to Pickering) will
not signify so many groats to him, no not one
farthing. A-nd I must say it for the sake of
those silly people whom you have imposed
upon with such fallacies, that the Masses can
no more save thee from a future damnation,
than they do from a present condemnation.
I do not speak this to you, as intending thereby
to inveigh against all persons that profess the
Romish religion ; for there are many that arc
of that persuasion, that do abhor those hate
principles of murdering kings and subverting
governments. There are many honest gentle-
men ia England, I dare say, of that commu-
nion, whom none of the most impudent jesoks
durst undertake to tempt into such designs;
**
139] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II.
these are only to be imposed upon silly men,
not upon men of conscience and understanding, j
And I pray God, as was said lately by a learned
gentleman whom we all know, that all Protes-
tants may be as safe from the force of your dag-
gers, as they are from tho*e of your argument* ;
for I dare say, that you could sooner murder
any man that understands the Protestant re-
ligion, than to persuade him to such villanies.
And among those many things which prevailed
with the honest gentlemen of the jury to con-
vict you of this horrid crime, they could not
hut take uotice, that you (speaking to Ireland)
that do pretend to learning, did send into fo-
reign parts that your fellow Jesuits should take
care publicly to preach, That the oaths of al-
legiance and supremacy, by which the common
justice of jhe nation is preserved, signified no-
thing ; which is a strong evidence of your de-
sign, not only to murder the king, but subvert
the government ; for surely the most probable
way to do that, is to asperse those oaths by
which all protestant subjects, those whom you
call heretics, lie under an obligation of obe-
dience to their prince. And I think it not
unfit to tell you, that you had a great favour
showed to you to be tried only for the matter*
contained in this Indictment j for you that are
priests must know, that there is a law in the
land, that would have hunged you for your very
residence here; for if any subject born in Eng-
land shall take orders from the see of Rome,
and afterwards come into England, and re-
main there 40 days, such, for that offence alone,
are made traitors by act of parliament. But
you are so far from being under any awe of
thai law or submission to ir, that you dare not
only come to live here in despite thereof, but
endf avour what you can to overthrow both it,
and the government itself. You dare conspire
to mnrder the king ; nay not only so, but you
dare make your consults thereof public. You
dare write your names to those consults.
You dare solicit all your party to do the like,
and make all the ties of religion and conscience
(.that to considering Christians are obligations to
piety and charity) as engagements either to
act your villanies, or to conceal them. We
think no power can dispense with us, whom
Su call heretics, to falsify our oaths, much
a to break our covenant with God in the
Holy Sacrament Bot you, instead of making
that a tie and obligation to engage you to the
remembrance of our Saviour, make it a snare
and a gin to oblige your proselytes to the as-
sassinating kings, and murdering their subjects.
I am sorry with all my soul, that men who
have had their education here, and the benefit
of the good examples of others; should not
only be led into such mischievous principles
themselves, but to be of that confidence in their
persuasion, as to dare to debauch others also.
I am sorry also to bear a layman should with
so much malice declare, That a ballet, if round
nod smooth, was not safe enough for him to
execute bis villanies by ; but he must be sure,
sot onlj to set bis poisonous invention on work
U>U.— Trial <tf Ireland, Pickering, [Uo ;
about it, but ha must add thereto his poisonous ,
teeth ; for fear if the bullet was smooth, it ,
might light in some part where the wound might
be cured. But such is the lieigbt of some' !
mens malice, that they will put all the venom '
and malice they can into their actions. 1 ant
sure this was so horrid a design, that nothing
but a conclave of devils in hell, or a college of !
such Jesuits as yours on earth, could have '
thought opon.
This 1 remember to you-for the sake of tbem '
that are to live, and tor the charity I have for '
you who are to die : For the sake of them that '
are to live ; for I hope when they hear, that
men of your persuasion dare commit those '
outrageous crimes, and justify them by a prut- ' '
ciple of religion, they will not easily be seduced '
into your opinion : And out of charity to you
that are to die, to persuade you to hearty re-
pentance ; for otherwise, I must tell you, thy
1,600/. (speaking to Grove) i»»r thy 30,000
Masses (speaking to Pickering) will avail but
little. And I thought fit to say this also, that
it may be known that you have had the full
benefit of the laws established in England, and
those the best of laws ; for such is not the
law of other nations : For if any protestant in
any place where the Romish religion is profest,
had been but thought guilty of such crimes, lie
had never come to the formality and justice
of an arraignment, and to be tried by his peers,
permitted to make his defence, and hear what
could be said against him ; but be had been
hanged immediately, or perhaps suffered a
worse death. But you are not only beholden
to the happy constitution of our laws, but to
the more happy constitution of our religion.
For such are the admirable documents of
that religion we in England profess, that we
dare not requite massacre for massacre, blood
for blood. We disown and abhor all stabbing ;
and we are so far from reckoning that be shall
be a saint in Heaven for assassinating a prince,
and be prayed to in another world, that the
Protestant is required to believe, that such as
begin with murder, must end with damnation,
if our blessed Lord and Saviour do not ioter-
pose ; nothing that man can do, Papist or
Protestant, can save any man in such a case.
We dare not say that our religion will permit
us to murder dissenter»,mucb less to assassinate
our king.
And having thus said, let me onc« more as a
Christian, in the name of the great God of
Heaven, beg of you for your own tools sake,
be not satisfied or over-persuaded with any
doctrine that you have preached to others, oti
imbibed from others ; but believe, that no one
can contrive the death of the king, or the over-
throw of the government, but the great God o
Heaven and earth will have an account of it
And all pardons, absolutions, and the dispen
saoons that you who are priests can give to you
lay-brother,, or that any of your superiors ma
give to yoo, will not serve the turn.
I know not, but as I said, you may think
speak this to insult, I take the great God <
1413 STATS TRIALS, SO Chasles II. 1678.— <wuf Grove, far High Treason, [ldfl
Bcncfto witness that I speak it with charity
to year souks, and with great sorrow and grief
in my own heart, to see men that might have
made themselves happy, draw upon themselves
so great a rata. But since yon have been so
nurfy heard, so fairly tried and convicted, there
is hot little more to be said ; for f must tell you,
because it may not be thought that you had
not free liberty to make your full defence,
though that gentleman (speaking to Ireland)
seemed to be surprized, he had a kind sister,
that took care to bring hb witnesses ; I am so
far from blaming her for it, that I do com-
mend her, it was the effect of bergood nature,
and dest ims commendation ; but speak to this
parpose, to shew that there was no surprize
upon him, nor his Hie taken away by any
neb thing ; for be had a greater favour shewed
id him than is usually shewn to such of-
Aad having thus said to you myself, we do
also require him whose duty it is to attend in
such cases, nay, I do command him in the name
at* the court, that he attend upon you to give
yon all the comfortable assistance that he can
for the advantage of your future state : Aud
not only so, but we will certainly take care*
that if yon will have any others come to you
they shall. I would not be mistaken, I do
not mean any of your priests and Jesuits ; but
ifyoa will have the assistance of any Protestant
divines, they shall not be dented you. And I
tape God Almighty will please to give you par-
son in another world, though you have offended
beyond hopes of any in this. I once more
a*ore you, all I have said is in perfect charity.
1 pray God forgive yon for what you have done.
And so there remains now only for me to pro-
nounce that sentence which by the law of the
land the court is required to do against persons
convicted of that offence which you are con-
victed of.
This const doth therefore award, " That you,
the prisoners at tlie bar, be conveyed from
hence to the place from whence you came, and
from thence that yon be drawn to the place of
execution upon hurdles, that there you be se
verattj hanged by the neck, that you be cut
•own alive, that your privy members be cut
of, and jroer bowels taken out, and burnt in
fsar view, that your heads be severed from
year bodies, that your bodies be divided into
aasxtm, and those quarters be disposed of at
the king's pleasure: And the God of infinite
mercy be merciful to your souls."
Then the prisoners were conveyed back to
the Gaol by the keener of the Gaol, accord-
ing to custom ; and tne commission was called
aver, and the prisoners taken order for accord-
ing to law. And the court adjourned by pro-
clamation than :
CLvfCr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crier. O Yes, G Yes, O Yes ! All manner
af persons that have any thing more to do at
las general sessions of the peace holden for
the city of London, may depart hence for this
one, and give their attanjiance at the Guild-
hall, London, on Friday the 10th day of J a*
nuary next, at seven of the clock in the morn-
ing. And all manner of persons at this ses-
sions of Oyer and Terminer, and gaol-dettvercy
of Newgate, holden for the city of London and
county of Middlesex, may depart hence for
this time, and give their attendance here again
on Wednesday, the 15ih day of January, at
seven of the dock in the morning. God says
the king.
And then the court broke up.
On Friday the 94th of January following,
William Ireland and John Grove were drawn
from Newgate on a hurdle to Tyburn, where
they were executed according to their sentence.
Mr. Ireland made this following Speech i
<' We come hither, as on tbe list theatre of
the world, and do therefore conceive we are
obliged to speak. First then, we do confess,
that we pardon all and every one whatsoever,
that have any interest, concern, or hand in onr
death. Secondly, we do publicly.profess and ac-
knowledge, that we are here obliged, if we were
guilty ourselves of any treason, to declare it ;
and that, if we knew any person faulty therein
(although he were our father) we would detect
and discover him ; and as for ourselves, we
would beg a thousand and a thousand pardons,
both of God and man : But seeing we oannot
be believed, we must beg leave to commit our-
selves to the mercy of Almighty God^and nope to
find pardon of him through Christ. As for my
own part, having been twenty years in the Low
Countries, and * then .coming over in June
was twelvemonth, I had returned again, had
not I been hindered by a fit of sicknett*. On
the 3d of August last I took a journey into*
Staffordshire, and did not come back to town
before the 14th of September, as many can..
witness : for a hundred and more saw me in
Staffordshire ; therefore, bow I should in this
time be acting here treasonable stratagems, I
do not well know or understand.**
Here Mr. Sheriff advertised tbe prisoner, he
would do well to make better. use of his time,
than to spend it in such-like espressions, for
nobody would believe htm ; not that they
thought much of their time, for they would
stay ; but such) kind of words did arraign the
proceedings of the court, by which they were
tried. -
Wherefore Mr. Ireland coadnded, and said;
" I do here beg of God Almighty to shower
down a thousand and a thousand blessings upon
his majesty, on her sacred majesty, on the duke
of York, and all tbe royal family, and also on
tbe whole kingdom. As for those catholics that
are here, we desire their prayers for a happy
passage into a better world, and that he wonld
be merciful to all christian souls. And as for
all our enemies, we earaesrv desire that God
would pardon them again and again, for we
pardon them heartily, from die bottom of one:
hearts ; and so I beseech all goad people t*>
pray for us and with us."
143] STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. 1 076.— Trial # Lord Corntxtlli*, [144
Then Mr. Groves said ; , I
n We are innocent ; we lose our lives wrong-
it a matter of great weight, I shall » tberefote
consider of it, and return you an answer*"
Fully ; we pray to God to forgive them that are
the causers of it."
The execution of Thomas Pickering was respi-
ted for to long a time, that it occasioned an
Address of the Hou^e of Commons, April 37,
1679? " That his mnjesty would be pleased to
order the execution of one Pickering a pri-
soner in Newgate, and of divers priests and
Jesuits, who had hcen condemned by the
judges at the Old Bailey and in the several
circuits, but; did remain 119 yet unexecuted,
to the great emboldening of such offenders, in
case they should escape without due punish- 1
blent." To which the king returned this an-
swer.: u Gentlemen, I have always been ten-
der in matters of blood, which my subjects
have no reason to take exceptions at ; But this
May 35, the king sent a message to the
House, by Lord Russel, to let them know, tlrat
he would comply with their request concerning
Pickering, and that the law should pass upou
him.
lie was accordingly executed in pursuance
of his sentence. Arriving at the place of exe-
eution, he appeared to the spectators (after a
manner very unusual to persons in his condition)
with a countenance not only calm, aweer, and
serene, but even chearful, smiling, and pleased;
solemnly protesting upon his sal vntiott, he was
innocent in thought, -word, and- deed, of all
that was laid to his charge. Then heartily pray-
ing for his accusers and enemies, he said to
the hangman ' Friend, do thy office ;' and soon
after left the world.
S46. The- Trial of the Lord Corn wallis, before the Lords* at West*
minster, for the Murder of Robert Clerk: 30 Charles II.
a.d. I678.f
AFTER my 'Lord High Steward (lord Finch
, afterwards earl of Nottingham) was ascended
to the High Chair of State, and sat down there-
in) -the commission was delivered by the clerk
■ »— ■
* This was a Trial in the Court of the Lord
High Steward, as to which, and the distinction
between it and the High Court of Parliament,
or as Mr. Justice Foster stiles it, " The Court
.•of our Lord the King in Parliament," see the
Case of Lord Delamere, a.d. 1686, tn/r*;
and of Earl Ferrers, a.d. 1760, infra; and
Foster's Crown Law, 138. See also 4 Hat*-'
♦ell's Precedents, IDT. 877, and the Appendix,
No.*.
f This Case is thus reported in Jones's Rep.
54 : " The lord C. having been indicted for
the murder of Robert Clerk mentioned in the
nest preceding x The king for his trial con-
stituted Heiieuge lord Finch, then High Chan-
cellor of England, to be Lord High Steward,
Aec vict tMntwk. The trial was upon the 30th
day of June after Trinity Term, in the 28th
year of the king. The proceedings were such
as are described by lord Coke in his Book of
Pleas of the Crown, chap. Treason, of the Trial
of Peers; as to the Summons of the peers triers,
the Certiorari to the Lord Chief Justice for the
•indictment, and precept to ihe constable of the
Tower of London, and other formalities there
mentioned. The steward was attended from
iris house on the day of. the trial quite to West-
minster, by the judges in their coaches. Sir
fidward .Walker, tiien garter king at arms, go-
ing before him in his coat with the Serjeants at
•ems: when he was at the great door of the
hall he tarried till the judges were alighted out
-of their coaches, and then the chief justices
first, and the rest according to their seniority I
of the crown in the Chancery, on his knee*, to
my lord, who delivered it to sir Thomas Fan-
shew, clerk of the crown in the King's* Bench
office, and be received it kneeling. Then pro*
passed by him, and advanced into the court,
which was a large tribunal erected for this pur-
' pose (the whole structure extended almost from .
the SUirs leading to the courts of King's-bench
and Chancery to the court of Common Pleas,
but the court itself was not so large by much.)
The cloth of state was placed aloft in the mid- '
die of both sides of it, but a little behind were
built two small boxes ; on the right were the
king, the queen, the duke and duchess ; the
others were filled with persons of honour. The
peers triers were seated on both sides the chair
I of state, but at the distance of about five paces
from it, and a step lower on benches covered
with green cloth, with which the whole court
was likewise covered. At the peers feet. sat the
judges, some on one side and some on the other,
their seats being of the same height with the
floor of the court. In the middle was a piece
cut for the clerk of the orown of the KittgV
bench, and for his deputy, in the lower part.
The king's council, viz. his senior Serjeant, at-
torney and solicitor were placed. The pri-
soner was at the bar behind thetn, but raised
about six feet, and directly over against the
chair of state.
" After the court was thus disposed, Cher-
noke, serjeant at arms, made proclamation
three times, and command was made that all
persons, except the lords the triers, and other
peers of the realm, and the privy counsellor*
and the judges, should he uncovered. Then
the clerk of the crown read the indictment,
and arraigned the prisoner, who pleaded Not
4
144]
STATTE TUALS, IOCaAM.MiL mi—Jbr Murdtr.
[146
marie by the Serjeant at Anns,
who was Crier for the day.
Gadty, and pot himself upon bis peeia, who
were chirtv-six, the greatest part of them of
the most eobte, of the greatest estate, and the
wisest of the realm. Before any evidence was
given, the Lord Steward made an elegant
apeech to the triers, and exhorted the prisoner
n> beef good courage, and without rear, and
Iv sanvann all the faculties of his soul to his
aarijtnnrr Then the evidence was first opened
by the solicitor general, seconded by the attor-
ney, aud concluded by Serjeant Maynerd, the
ail the while behaving himself with
, modesty and prudence. After the
ras> concluded, the lords went to coit-
coasuk together, in the Court of
Wards, as I belie**, and during their absence
biscuit and wine were distributed in the court.
After two hoars or more, the lords retornejj,
and the Lord Treasurer, in the name of his
fellows, prayed the advice of the Lord Steward
wad the Judges on this point, Whether a per-
son's presence at and abetting of a man-
aaueater, committed by another, made him
guAr, as it was in the case of murder. To
staicn the Judge* speaking, ? iz. those of the
same aide for themselves, and not altogether,
all agreed that the law was the same in case
af avanslnughfer as of murder. Then the lords
went back, and in half an boar returned to
give their verdict. And being seated in their
places the Lord Steward spoke first to the
Tainrrat h>rd in -this manner, My lord A. is my
lord C. Guilty or not? and so to every one,
■■mining from the voungest to the first, and
aaah answrird in hk order, Guilty or Not
•3e3ty open my honour. And six of them pro-
neawced him Guilty of Manslaughter, and the
fast Hot Guilty. This being recorded, the
loin toward broke the white rod (which was
held befure him daring the whole trial) over
via head, and then the court broke up.
M B. G. having been indicted for the same
saarder of Robert Clerk, with the said lord
C. surrendered himself in Michaelmas Term,
•B C. 8. and being brought to the KingV
bench bar the same term, and arraigned, plead-
ed the king's pardon, which was read, he being
oa has knees. Then Twisden, justice, observ-
ed, that the pardon did not recite the mdict-
aad that he remembered it had been
I, whether a pardon after indict-
it mentioning it, should be allowed,
thought the pardon in this case was well
_ t, lor it had these words, ' sive9 (the pri-
r) * fait uufactat' sive non.' Note this par-
don wee per verba of ' feionicnm interfectionem
• eaaaxaaq/ with a * Non obstante the statute
' of R. 8/ &e. and was allowed by all the
court, and the prisoner, after grave advice
tiven him by the Lord Chief Justice and Twis-
sen, discharged, and afterwards according to
Be cBSfom he presented gloves to all the
yql. m.
Serjeant. Oyes, O yes, O yes! My Lord
High Steward of England strictly chargeth and
oomtaandeth alt manner of persons here pre-
sent, upon pain of imprisonment, to keep
silence, and give ear to his majesty's commis-
sion. To my Lord High Steward of England,
to bis grace directed.
The clerk of the crown, with his face to my
Lord High Steward, reads it thus:
Clerk of the Crown. Charles Rei Carotos
Secundum, &c.
All which time my lord and the peers stood,
op bare.
Serjeant. God save the king.
CI. Cr. Make proclamation.
Serjeant. O yes! The king, at arms, and the
usher of the black rod, on their knees, deliver
the white staff to my lord, who re-delivered it
to the usher of the black rod, who held it up
all the time before him.
CI. Cr. Make proclamation.
Serjeant. O yes! My Lord High Steward of
England strictly chargeth and commanded! all
justices and commissioners, and all and every
person and persons to whom any writ or pre*
cept hath been directed for the certifying of
any indictment, or of any other record before
my Lord High Steward of England, to certify
and bring the same immediately, according to
the tenor of the said writs and precepts onto
them, or any of them directed, on pain and
peril as shall rail thereon.
The lord chief justice of the KiogVBeoch
returned his Certiorari, and the record of the
Indictment by the grand jury of Middlesex,
which was read by toe clerk of the crown in
hoc verba.
CI. Cr. Virtote, &c.
L. H. Stew. Call the constable of the Tower
to return his precept and bring forth his
prisoner.
CI. Or. Make proclamation.
Serjeant. Oyes! Constable of the Tower o£
Loudon, return the precept to thee directed,
and bring forth the prisoner Charles lord Corn-
waliis, on pain and peril as will fell thereon.
The lord lieutenant of the Tower brought in
the prisoner, on his left-hand, with the ax be-
fore him, borne by the deputy-lieutenant, which
he held with the edge from him, and returned
his precept in hoc verba.
til. Cr. Virtote, ore.
L. H. Stew. Call the Serjeant at Arms to
return his precept.
CI. Cr. Make proclamation.
Serjeant. O yes! Roger Harfnet, esq. Ser-
jeant at Arms to oar sovereign lord the king,
return the precept to thee directed, with the
names of all the lords and noblemen of thia
realm, peers of Charles lord Cornwall**, by
thee summoned, to be here this day, on pain
and peril as will fall thereon.
He delivered his precept returned with a
schedule annexed thus:
Ci. Cr. Virtute,&c. Make proclamation.
Serjeant. O yes ! All marquisses, earls, vis-
counts, and barons of this realm of England,
147] STATE TRIALS, 50 Craklis II. 1678.— Trial qf Lord Cornwallis, [148
peers of Charles lord Cornwallis, which by
commandment of tbe Lord High Steward of
England are summoned to appear this day,
and to be present in Court, answer to your
names, as you are called, every one upon pain
and peril as will fall thereon.
Then the Pannel was called over; tbe num-
ber of peers summoned were 35, in order as
followeth :
Thomas Earl of Danby, Lord High Trea-
surer of England, &c.
All that appeared, answered to the call,
standing up hare.
Then my Lord High Steward made a speech
to the prisoner at tbe bar thus :
Lord High Steward. " My lord Cornwall is,
The violation of the king's peace, in tbe chief
sanctuary of it, his own royal palace,* and in
so high a manner as by the deatb of one of bis
subjects, is a matter that must be accounted
for. And that it may be so, it hath pleased
the king to command this high and honourable
court to assemble, in order to a strict and im-
partial enquiry.
" The wisdom of the law bath therefore
styled it tbe king's peace, because it is his au-
thority that commands it, it is his justice that
secures it, it is he on whom men do rely for tbe
safety of their liberties and their lives; in him
tfaey trust that a severe account shall be taken
of all the violences and injuries that are offered
to them, apd they that trust in the king can
never be deceived.
*f It is your lordship's great anbappiness at
this time to stand prisoner at the bar, under
the weight of no less a charge than an Indict-
ment of murder; and it is not to be wondered
at, if so great a misfortune as this be attended
with some kind of confusion of face ; when a
nan sees himself become a spectacle of misery
in so great a presence, and before so noble and
so illustrious an assembly. But be not yet
dismayed, my lord, for all this ; let not the fears
and terrors of justice so amaie and surprize
yout as to betray those succours that your rea-
son would afford you, or to disarm you of those
helps which good discretion may administer,
and which are now extremely necessary.
" It is indeed a dreadful thing to fall into the
hands of justice, where the law is the rule, and
a severe and inflexible measure both of life and
death. But yet it ought to be some comfort to
your lordshipy that you are now to be tried by
my lords your peers; and that now you see the
scales of justice are held by such noble hands,
you may be confident they will put into them
all the grains of allowance, either justice or
honour will bear.
u Hearken therefore to your indictment with
quietness aod attention ; observe what the wit-
* As to striking in the palace, &c. See the
Cases of sir Edmund Knevet, ante, vol. 1, p
443, of the earl of Devonshire, a. ». 1687 ;
and of lord Thanet and Mr. Ferguson, a. d,
1797, pott. See also East's Pleas of the Crown,
•C. V| sect. •>•
oesses say against you without interruption,
and reserve what you have to say for yourself,'
till it shall come to your turn to make your de-
fence, of which I shall be sure to give yon no-
tice; and when the time comes, assure your-
self you shall be heard, not only with patience,
but witb candour too.
" And then what judgment soever raj lords
will give vou, yourself will (and alf the world)
be forced to acknowledge the justice and
equity of their judgment, and the righteousness
of all their lordships proceedings/'
Read the Indictment.
CI. Cr. Charles Lord Cornwallis, Thou
standest indicted in the County of Middlesex >
by the name of, &c. How sayest thou, Charles
lord Cornwallis, Art thou guilty of this felony
and murder whereof thou standest indicted, or
Not guilty?
Lord Corn. Not guilty.
CI. Cr. How wile thou be tried ?
Ld. Corn. By God and my peers.
Then my Lord High Steward addressed him-
self to the Lords thus :
L. H. Stew. " My Lords, Your lordships
have here a member before you of your noble
body, exposed to the shame of a public arraign-
ment, and (which to a man of honour is much
less) to the hazard both of his life and estate.
All that he hath, and ever hopes to have, bis>
wealth, his fame, his posterity : all that is va-
luable to him in this world, entirely depends
on your lordships judicature, who are now
his peers, and on whom he doth freely pot
himself.
" My Lords, the privilege of this kind of
trial and judicature, is a part of tbe true great-
ness of the English nobility: It is an eminent
and an illustrious privilege. It is a solid poisst
of honour and dignity. It is a privilege that
no neighbour nation ever had, and a privi-
lege this nation never was without.
" It is not a privilege created by the great
Charter, hut confessed and acknowledged bv
it. They look but a little way that find this
in the steps of the Norman conquest ; for it isj
to be found even in the footsteps of the Savon
Monarchy, when Godwin earl of Kent waa
tried by earls and barons. And it is no improbav-
ble conjecture of theirs, who do think tbe wis-
dom of this Constitution was taken from that
law amongst the Romans, whereby it was
made unlawful for any mats to sit upoo a so
nator, that was not himself of tbe same order ;
a privilege, that (as learned civilians tell utf
continued with them during the reign of main
of the Roman emperors. But, my Lords, a<
this is a privilege as ancient as Monarchy, sk
we have found by many old experiences, thai
it cannot be taken away without the dissolu-
tion of -that government: Therefore this is oni
of those many ties by which the interest o
nobility, as well as their duty, have obliged then
to the service of tbe kine.
" In the exercise of this privilege at thi
time; I know your lordships will weigh tlv
U»]
3TATg TA1AJJ5, soChamasIL Wit.— ft* Murder.
[1*0
fact with ail the arcanutances, whereby it ii
to receive its true and its proper doom. " Your
lordships are too just lo let pity make an abate-
ipent tor the crime, and too wise to let rheto-
ric make any improvement of it: This only
will be necessary to be observed by all your
lordships, that the fouler the crime is, the clearer
tod the plainer ought the proof of it to be. There
is no other good reason can be given,* why
the law refoseth to allow the prisoner at the
bar counsel in matter of met, when his life is
concerned, but only this, because the evidence
by which he is condemned ought to be so very
evident and so plain, that all the counsel in the
world should not be able to answer upon it :
Upon this ground it is, that the law hath trusted
your lordships with the trial of your fellow
peers; no trust can be more nobly lodged, nor
bo judicature had ever more true submission
ande to it : therefore it would be in me some
want of respect to this august and noble as-
sembly, should I go about to put your lord-
ships in miud of your duty : no doubt yon will
observe the eridencw -carefully, weiph it dili-
Sitly, and when that is done, it is impossible
t the judgment you will give must be right
and honourable and worthy of so wise and
so great a body. Therefore I will not de-
tain your lordships any longer from hearing
the evidence that is ready to be offered unto
CLefCr. Make Proclamation.
Say. O yes 1 If any will give evidence for
oar sovereign lord the king, against Charles
lord Cornwallis, prisoner at the bar, let him
come forth and he shall be heard ; for the pri-
soner stands at the bar upon his deliverance.
The Indictment was again read to the peers.
Serjeant Maynard. May it please your
grace, my Lord High Steward of England, and
this peat and noble assembly ; the prisoner at
the bar, Charles lord Comwallis, standeth in*
dieted of a great crime, that he, together with
Charles Garrard and Edward Bourne, not hav-
ing in his heart the fear of God, but instigated
by the suggestions of the Devil, the 18th of
May last, did feloniously and of his malice fore-
thought, assault one Robert Clerk in White-
hall, and that Mr. Gerrard took him up in his
arms, flung him down, and broke his neck, of
which he instantly died. To this he hath
pleaded Not Guilty. It lies upon us who are
counsel for the king, in this case to prosecute
it, and prove it to you.
Mr. Attorney General, (sir William Jones),
Msy it please your grace, my Lord High Stew-
ard of England, and my Lords summoned for
the trial of the prisoner at the bar : This noble
lord stands indicted for murder; an offence,
my lord, which is the first and greatest that is
aWbsBoeu by the second table, and an offence
of that nature, that the law of God hath by a
most peremptory sentence condemned and de-
* See 3 Inst. 137, 4 Blackstone's Coram.
3tf, 350. See too Don Pantaloon Sa's Case,
sale, vol. £, p. 466, and the Note.
creed, that whoso sheddeth man's blood by
man shall his blood be shed. Whether this
noble lord 'be guilty of it, remains upon your
lordships to try, and I shall very shortly state
the matter of fact, which we shall prove, and
then let the evidence be offered to you. We
do not pretend, my Lords, neither doth the
Indictment lay it, that this great offence was
committed by the band of my lord Com-
wallis.
For I know your lordships have observed the
Indictment, by which it is alledged, that the
hand of Mr. Gerrard did the fact: but, my
Lords, if. we shall make it out that my lord
Comwallis did coucor to this act, and had in
himself at that time an intent to be a murderer,
then it will be declared by his grace, my Lord
High Steward, and my Lords the judges, that
though his hand did it not, yet he is equally
guilty as if it had.
Now, to make out the charge against him!
our evidence will be shortly thus ;
On the 18th of May last, early in tlie morn*
ing, between the hours of one and two, came
down two gentlemen with three footmen bo-
hind them, out of the gallery at Whitehall, by
the stairs that lead down to the park : I can
them two gentlemen, because it was not then
discovered who they were, or of what quality ;
but your lordships will perceive,' by the course
of the evidence, they were my Lord Corn wains
and Mr. Gerrard, coming down at that unsea- ~
sonable hour. The first question they asked
the centinel (who watched at the foot of the
stairs), was the hour of the night; and from him
bad account that it was so much.
The prisoner and Mr. Gerrard were some*
what distempered with drink,* and made him
a reply that be lyed, with great oaths accom-
panying it. At that time they did no more
but go by him into the park, where after
they had continued by the space of an hour,
back they returned to the stairs, and the cen-
tinel demanding, according to bis duty, who
came there ? they answered him in very ob-
scene and uncivil language, and threatened tbey
would kill the centinel, who only did his duty in
enquiring who came by him at that time of night.
And we shall make it appear, they wens
in a kind of contention among themselves who
should kill him ; for as I am informed, (I know
if it be not proved, your lordships will observe
it) one desired, Pray let me kill him; and the
other desired, Pray let me kill him; and threat-
ened no less than to ran him through.
My Lords, the centinel being of good reso-
lution, was not affrighted from bis place, but
kept them off; and when they saw they could
not win upon the centinel that way, one of ibem
delivered away his sword, which be held in his
* As for a drunkard, who isvoluntarius demon"
[or dement] " he hath, as bath been said, no
privilege thereby ; but what hurt or ill soever
be doth, hisdruukenness doth aggravate it." Co.
Iittl. 347, &c. See too, Purchase's Case, a. »•
17 10, infra.
Wl ) STATE TRIALS, $0 Champs II. 107S.— Trial e/ Lord, Cornwall*, [I&3
hand not drawn, and- then was pleased to tome
to the centinel, and desired to kite him, and
swore he would do that : hat that the cenCind
did equally refuse ; and then the? did use the
same threatnings again and seemed to be in a
contention who should run him through. My
Lords, after some time, being now come to the
top of the stairs, and there staying, it happened
there came to the stair-foot two youths, and
these young men were, it seems, going to bed in
their lodging, which was very near, and did
make it their request to the centinel (one of
them did) to call him up very early the next
morning, because he was to go of a message out
of the town. My Lord Cornwaliis and Mr.
Oerrard remaining on the top of the stair-case,
being (as we said) in disorder (which is the
strength of the king's evideuce, if proved)
both of them said, before they went thence
they would kill some or other, which evidence
will go a great way to shew the concern that
noble Lord the prisoner at the bar, bad in the
business.
It happened as these boys were making their
request to the ceutiuel, my Lord and Mr. Oer-
rard took notice of it, and seemed to be con*
earned that they should command the king's
soldiers, and bid the centinel shoot him, who
told them he conceived the boy had done him
no wrong in asking a civil kindness from him ;
they again called to shoot him, and they would
bear him out; which be still refased to do, find-
ing no reason for it : then one of the two took
occasion to swear a great oath, ' he would kick
his Arse to Hell ;c to which the boy that a&ked
the centinel made some reply ; wherein the
word * Arse' was repeated : (Now whether thev
understood it as an interrogation, * why kick
my Arse to Hell ?' as he intended it; or in a
worse sense, ' kiss my Arse') one of the gentle-
men in a rage came running down the stairs,
and that boy that in troth spoke the word ran
away*, and the other poor ionooent boy, trusting
m his own innocency, remained there until the
person came to him, and did on his knees (in a
manner) desire not to be mistaken, he was not
4lie person that used any ill words, and cryed
out, O my Lord, it was not I ; indeed, my Lord
irwas hot I \ but such at that time, was the
intemperance and wrath of the person, who m
each a fury descended the stain, that (whether
with the blow or with the mil) the boy received
his death. We find by' our information of the
evidence, that he who dM tine thing "as « truth
Mr. Ovrrard* "ho is not yet ta>«> > but whe-
ther my torJ, *be prisoner at the °«> <*«* apt
concur in it, and had not an intents *> kill
somebody, is the question left for your j8»c«
and these noble peers to decide. This if *ne
nature of the fact; only I desire to observry
that it is true here was 'some distance between
the place where my Lord Cornwaliis stood, and
the place where the boy was killed. Of what
consequence that may be, I leave to your
grace's and these noble lords consideration : It
was the distance of the stairs ; but I think, as
every one kuows, they are not to many, but
1
what is done below may be easily seen at
top.
We shall now, without detaining year loreV
ships any longer, calk the witnesses, and prows)
what bath been opened.
The Soldier proved the met, as it was open-*
ed by Mr. Attorney General, except that part
about both swearing they would kill one or
other, which passage was heard bat by one of
them, and spoken hut by one of the gentlemen.
They could not swear who were the persons,
because of the darkness of the time.
The Boy who was the companion of him that
was slain, and that used the words that causae?
the person to come down, swore them to be st
repetition only by way of interrogation, * why
kick my Arse to Hell r?
Then Mr. Attorney desired to call ray Lore!
Cornwaliis'* own two footmen, who had been?
indicted and acquitted at the kingVbcnch-bar.
L. H. Stewurd. My Lords the judges, is tiiere
any question, whether a person acquitted of an
oftence be a good witness against another
charged with the same ofieooe ? '
Judges. None at all ? when he it acquitted
he ought to be admitted.
Then the copy of the acquittal (proved by si
clerk in the crown-office) was read, and thess
were sworn ; who fixed it apon the person of
Mr. Oerrard, and swore that my lord Com*.
wallis was all the while upon the top of the)
stairs, but after the fact committed hasted
away for fear of being knocked down by the)
soldiers : ami there ended the king's evidence.
X. H. Slew. Now, my lord, is the tamer
come for your defence. You hear what is)
charged on you. Pray speak what yon have to
say tor yourself.
Then the Prisoner at the bar confessed brm>
self to have been in the company that night,
when this accident happened, which he hoped
would be a warning to him to shun seen dis-
orders hereafter ; but thst he had no evil in-
tention, and but one witness swore that both of.
them would have killed the centinel ; that he
was not conscious to himself, to have had %
hand in, and therefore withdrew not himself it,
but yielded himself to the coroner the nest
day, (which he proved by the coroner himself)
and did therefore, in trust of his iuooceney,
submit himself to the judgment ef his grace end
his peers. — Which being done,
Sir Francit Winmngton, the king's Solicitor
General, summed* up the evidence in -this
manner:
May it please your grace, my Lord High)
Steward of England, and my noble lords tftsa
peers of the prisoner at the bar : According to
the duty of my place I am to repeat the king's
evidence, and state it to yoor grace and tbeao
noble lords, and submit it to your great judg-
ments, how for it will go for the proof of toss
crime ; wherein I shaH observe the duty of aU
honest men, which is to do nothing either to
wrest any thing in ^disadvantage of the prisoner
oat of the kind's evidence, to go fofther than, it
US]
STATE TMALS, SOChaiUsD, 147&.^tf*ftV»v
o«get»aor shall sunk-nay thing that stall re-
quire your grace and the noble lords' justice;
mr we come to seek out the troth, and we ques-
tion art but by this honourable trial it will ha
brought to tight. Bat I beseech your favour to
take aotice, in the first place, what crime this
aehle lord stands accused of^ and it is Jar mur-
der; wherein oar law takes notice, that murder
is where a man unlawfully kills another under
ttekiiigVpeace^ with malice forethought Now
that hare is a marder committed, I dare with all
asoaJky aver. By whom ? that is the question :
For this Robert Clerk, the person killed, doth
appear, by the course of the evidence, to have
hasa doing bis duty, attending the plaoe his
esq do jaunt required; gave no offence to any
whatsoever; bat when the parson came down
sad fell upon bam, the poor youth cried, ' In-
4 deed, my lord, it was not 1;' yet, my lords,
the hands of violence seized him, and killed him.
Let as then see bow the evidence brings it home
is the nobta lord, the prisoner at the bar ;
wherein I most confess we have no express evi-
dence (nay* we have evidence to the contrary)
that it was not his hand that did the fact ac-
taeuy; for it is by two witnesses* the footmen,
sworn that it was Mr. Gerrard who came down
and gave the unfortunate blow • but we have
that which, we think, with humble submission,
any reach this noble lord : Far I know your
mast and my lords remember, that after they
had been an boor in the park; both returning,
did with horrid oaths swear they would kill the
omtmel ; there the evidence fixeth it, not upon
snewaty, bat upon both : it was at that time
so dark they coald wot be distinguished, but by
the voice : The centinel hath given yon an ao
coast how be performed his duty, and in what
strait he was, he had much ado to save his own
km, or to prevent kitting them : But when they
came upon the stairs, these two boys came
there in order to desire the centinel to call one
of then the next moraine. Then one on the
stairs (no man can tell who k was) with horrid
execrations, asked, Will you command die king's
ssUiers? Shoot bmi, centinel, we will bear von
eat. Bnt all this while it was dusk, no distinc-
tion of persons could be made ; whereupon it
nil fall oot to come to this case, If several per-
sons intend to kill one, and happen to kill ano-
ther, whether this be not murder in them ? For
the urging of this, as to the matter in law, I
leave to him that comes after me. The centi-
nel swears one of them did swear be would kill
one or other ; who it was took up that cruel
resvmtion, is left to you to judge : but at that
time they were both together upon the top of
the stairs ; and my lord doth not seem to give
one tittle of evidence, that shews any endear-
wjers of the prisoner at the bar to prevent the
other, or disprove of bis actions: If he had
given an account of that, be had silenced jus-
nee ; bnt when they were all together; he oot
eadenvoorine to stop bis hand, it is as much in
for as if he had struck the stroke.
The other soldiers give you a particular ac-
asnnt to the same purpose.
[1M
Thotwe last witnesses do bring it to At per*
son of my lord, lbs prisoner at the bar, and Mr.
Garrard, who, they swore, came down the,
stairs, and his man followed him la the bottom^
and there staid at some distance till the fact
was dona, and they all fled.
This I take to be the matter of fact fajth-
mlly proved before your grace, and the Lords'
the peers ; and I would not trouble your grace
longer, because I would not misreport any
thing, whereby I might do wrong, either to the
prisoner or the kiogfs cause; and because I
know your grace and the noble lords will dist-
tioguish and hod out where the truth is. 1
most say, it is a great comfort to all the sab*
jects of Eogland, that crimes of this nature are
so carefully presented, that whatsoever ho*
oours and dignities our gracious sovereign doth
confer on any person, it doth not exempt him
from the justice of the law : it is not only a
comfort to this assembly, but to the whole
nation, to see the king tender of his subjects
persons and lives, in that he hath caused tins
strict course to be taken, where the enquiry
hath gone from the grand jury of the county,
until the bill came to this 'great tribunal;
where I doubt not but your grace, and these
noble lords, will give a righteous and just
judgment.
Serjeant Maynard. May it please your grace,
my Lord High Steward of England, • and my
noble lords the Peers :
I, according to the duty of my place, come
now to conclude the charge on the king's he-
half. Some things are fit to be observed upon
the evidence, that may produce a question fur
the decision of the fact, of what nature it is.
That a murder is committed, is upon evidence
without all question ; and not only the death of
a man, here is a child slain without any provo-
cation in the world given by him to that per-
son that did it ; and that did it too, notwith-
standing the deprecations of the boy, affirming
his own innoeency, and that with as full cir-
cumstances as a Christian almost could a thing :
these come from the king's palace-walk in the
park ; call the centinel rogue, and when he
doth his duty, swear to murder him ; with
oaths that a Christian would blush at, and be
afraid to hear : God damme oftentimes reite-
rated ; and he that saith that word, doth beg
of God to hate him, and affirm that ha doth
hate God.' The obscenity that they used I
shall not mention again. These are the cir-
cumstances of the case ; that all were guilty
of much, is no doubt ; but who of the mur-
der, is the question. And I humbly conceive,
it is manifest, that this noble lord was. con-
cerned in it. For it is not requisite to make a
murder, that he who kills a man hath conceived
a malice against him ; for if I have a malice
against any man, and the enact of that fall
upon another, it is murder.
I apply it thus : if it be a murder in Mr.
Gerrard, if this noble lord partake with him in
the design which made it so ; to wit, the
malice against the centinel t he is as guilty, as
IMJ ST ATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. ) (PS. —Trial qf Lord CornwaUis, (150
if hit bind lad been as much* upon him as
.wv Mr. Gerrard't ; as in that known case of
the man that poisoned an appje with an in*
tent to kill his wife, and she not knowing of
the poison, gave some of it to her child, of
which it died ; though he had no design to kill
the child, yet the malice he conceived against
his wife supplied the defect of an express
malice to make it murder ; and he was hanged
therefore. So if « man assault a master, in the
presence of bis servant, who defends bis master,
and is slain, though the other had no purpose
to kill him, yet it is felony in hiin, for which, he
shall die; the law implying a malice. Then
here was clearly a malice to the centinel ; how
sear it comes to the boy will come in question
afterwards. I find the objection made in, my
lord's case, that at the particular time where
.the fact was committed, my lord was not with
Mr. Oerrard : but that will be no objection in
<the case ; for if he did partake in the design of
the other, I will answer it with the case of my
lord Dacresf of the South, who, with some
others, went unlawfully to steal deer, and the
keeper coming, some fled, among whom my
lord was one : the keeper was killed, my lord
Dacres being at that time without the pales, a
mile off from the place, and yet wns found
guilty of the murder, and lost both his lands
and life for it. But here, my lord Cornwallis
•was presentyfor the witness swears the distance
was not so great but it might be discerned.
Now whether he was aiding or assisting, is the
next tiling in question. What occasion had
they of malice, revenge, or injury to the cen-
tinel? They both swore they would kill him:
had there been any excuse for the other, if one
of them had killed the centinel ? That could
not be. Well, they did not kill the centinel,
but at the same time take up a causeless offence
. against another, and kill him. I argue, that
the malice against die soldier was diffusive to
the boy ; and one of the witnesses proves, that
one of them swore he would kill somebody :
now, no one speaks to any thing of my lord's
reproving Mr. Gerrard. Thus stands the case
before your grace and my lords : it is a case of
blood, and it cries loud :'bow far this noble
lord and prisoner at the bar is guilty thereof,
you are to enquire, and without all doubt will
give a clear verdict, according to justice and
honour.
L. H. Staoard. My lords, you have heard
the evidence; if your lordships please to go
and consider of it, you may.
Then the prisoner withdrew into his own
apartment, with the lieutenant of the Tower.
The lords went into a room behind the court
of Chancery, and after a stay of two hours re-
turned ; and being all sat, the earl of Danby,
Lard High Treasurer of England, who was the
first of the jury, addressed himself to my Lord
High Steward, and said :
Earl of Danby. My Lord High Steward,
* Sanders's Case in Plowden, fol. 473.
f Anno 33 H. 8, Coke, 3 Inst. fol. 211.
there is a question in law, of which some of
my lords desire to receive satisfaction before
they can give in their full verdict ; and we de-
sire to know of your grace, whether it be pro-
per here 'to ask, the question of your grace, or
to propose it to the judges.
L. a. St etc. If your lordships doubt of any
thiug, whereon a question in law ariseth, the
latter opinion, and the better for the prisoner
is, that it must be stated in the presence of the
prisoner, that he may know whether the ques-
tion be truly put.* It hath sometimes been
practised otherwise ; and the peers have sent
for the judges, and have asked their opinion in
private, and have come back, and given their
verdict, according to that opinion ; and there
is scarce a precedent of its being otherwise
done, but there is a latter authority in print,
that doth settle the point so as I tell you; and
I do conceive it ought to be followed ; and it
being safer for the prisoner, my humble opinion
to your lordship is, that ho ought to be present
at the stating* of the question.
Call the prisoner to the bar. Who being
come, my lord spake thus to him :
L, H. Stew. My lord Cornwallis, My lords
the peers, since they have withdrawn, have
conceived a doubt, in some matter of law-
arising upon the matter of fact in your case ;
and they have that tender regard of a prisoner
at the bar, that they will not suffer a case to be
put up in his absence, lest it should chance to
prejudice him, by being wrong stated ; there-
fore, your lordship will do well to attend the
question that is raised ; and, my lords, will you
please to propound your doubts?
Earl of Danby. It was taken notice of here,
that by opening the matter by Mr. Solicitor,
* 3 Coke's Inst. fol. 429. Pasch. 26 Hen. 3,
Lard Dacres't Case.
f It must certainly be in the presence of
the prisoner, if you ask the judges' opinion.
By lord Somers, Lord High Steward, in lord
Warwick's Case, a. d. 1699, infra. So also in
lord Stafford's Case, a. d. 1680, infra. Lord
Finch (the Lord High Steward) says, " My
Lords have directed that all the judges that
assist them, and are here in your lordships,*
presence and hearing, thould deliver their opi-
nions/'&c. So in Sacheverel's Case, a. d. 17 lO,
infra, the Lords resolve, on debate, that %
question should be put to the judges in the
court below, where accordingly it was put aud
answered. But in Hastings's Case, a.d. 1787,
infra, the questions were proposed to the
judges and answered by them, not in West-
minster-hall in the presence of the parties, but
in the House of Lords, with the doors shut.
Upon this subject, see the Report of a Com-
mittee of the House of Commons, April 30th,
1794, under the heads " Mode of putting the
Questions," and " Publicity of the Judges*
Opinions." See also the Protest of June 89,
1789. Io lord Delamere's Case, a. d. 1686.
infra, the judges were interrogated ana
made answer in open court*
B71
STATE TRIALS, 30 Charles II. )Mi.—Jbr Murder.
[US
ibe matter of murder was explained to be
meant by baring a prepensed malic*, and in
that case it was opened to as, that any persons
then present, ana that had in any sort con-
tributed to the disorders, they were as eoually
goilty, as they whose hand had shed the blood
if the person killed.
Now the doubt of some of my lords is, whe-
ther if it be found but man-slaughter, those are
equally gniltj (that are present, and have
proved to contribute to the disturbance) of
that crime, as tbey are in murder; because
some of them bare not the satisfaction that
they are the sarne.
L. H. Steward. My lords the judges, I take
it, the doubt proposed to you, is this; Whether
or na, those that are present, and have conci-
liated to the disorders, whereby such an acci-
dent doth ensue, as proves to be manslaughter,
be as culpable, as be that doth the immediate
&ct, as it is in the case of murder?
After a little pause and conference, the
Judges returned this answer :
Jmdget. We have bad conference of this case,
and ear humble opinion is, If sundry persons
be together, aiding and assisting to an action,
wherein a manslaughter doth ensue, as in case
of a sadden business without malice prepensed,
they are equally guilty of the manslaughter, as
they are in the case of murder prepensed.*
Earl of Danby. The Lords desire to with-
draw once more. Which they did, and after a
short space returned ; and being called over,
answered to their names ; and all appearing,
my Lord High Steward took their verdict
tcrwtaiy beginning at the puisne lord in the
following order, they answering, standing bare,
with their bands on their breasts.
L. H. Steward. My lord Durat, Is Charles
lord Cornwallis guilty of the felony and murder
whereof he stands indicted, or not guilty ?
Lord Dvras. Not guilty.
The same question he demanded of each ;
who answered thus :
Lord Butler, Not guilty.
, Not guilty.
Mayoard, Not guilty of murder, but guilty
of manslaughter.
Paget, Not guilty.
BerkJy, Not guilty of murder, but guilty of
manslaughter.
* See East's Pleas of the Crown, c, 5, 9. 4,
s. 118.
Newport, Not guilty.
Halli&x, Not guilty.
Viscouot Cambden, Not guilty. ,
Guilford, Not guilty.
Ailsbury, Not guilty of murder! but guilty
of manslaughter.
Craven, Not guilty.
Bath, Not guilty.
Clarendon, Not guilty..
Sunderland, Not guilty.
Peterborough, Not guilty.
Devonshire, Not guilty.
Northampton, Not guilty*
Bridgwater, Not guilty.
Dorset, Not guilty.
Suffolk, Not guilty.
Bedford, Not guilty.
Derby, Not guilty.
Kent, Not guilty.
Oxford, Not guilty.
Arlington, Not guilty.
Brereton, Not guilty;
Lindsey, Not guilty of murder, hut of man;
slaughter.
Dorchester, Not guilty.
Anglesey, Not gudty of murder, but of man-
slaughter.
Danby, Not guilty of murder, but of man*
slaughter.
lord High Steward. Call the prisoner to the
bar.
Then the prisoner came to the bar, and the
deputy lieutenant of the Tower held the edge
of the ax towards him, while my Lord High
Steward spake thus unto him ;
X. H. Steward. My Lord Cornwallis, you
have been indicted for murder, pleaded Not
Guilty, put yourself upon your peers; and
your peers upon consideration of the whoJe
matter have acquitted you, and found you Not
Guilty, so* you are to be discharged.
Cl.Cr. Make proclamation,
Serjeant. O Yes ! My Lord High Steward
of England willeth and commandeth all persons
to depart hence, in God's peace, and the king's,
for my lord high steward of England his grace
doth dissolve this commission. God save the
King.
At which words my Lord High Steward hold-
ing the white staff (which was delivered him by
the usher of the black rod on his knees) in both
hands over his head, snapt it * in two, and the
assembly {>roke un.
120] STATE THLIXS> Si Ghaiuu H> lW*<~Trialqf Green, faty, and HUl, £100
947. The Trial of Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Lawrence
Hill,* at the KingVBeach, for the Murder of Sir Edmuud-
bury Godfrey : 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679.
» ■ • <
lice aforethought, were present, aiding, abet-
ting, comforting and maintaining the aforesaid
Robert Oreeo, cbe aforesaid sir EdoMindoary
Godfrey in manner and form aforesaid, felo-
niously, voluntarily, and of Ins maJice afore-
thought, to kill and murder ; and so you the
said Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Law-
rence Hill, together with the said ■ Gi-
ON Wednesday the 5th of February, 1679,
Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Lawrence
Hill, were brought from his majesty's gaol of
Newgate, to the bar of the court of Sing's-
bencb, to be arraigned for the murder of sir
Edmundbury Godfrey, upon an Indictment
found by the grand jury for the county of Mid-
dlesex, on Monday the morrow of the Purifica-
tion of the Blessed Virgin Mary ; and the
court proceeded thus :
Mr. Justice Wild arraigned the prisoners.
. Clerk of the Crown. Robert Green, hold up
thy hand ; Henry Berry, hold up thy hand ;
Lawrence Hill, hold up thy hand. Which
they severally did.
You stand indicted by the names of Robert
Green, late of the parish of St. Mary le Strand,
in the county of Middlesex, labourer; Henry
Berry, late of the same parish and county, la-
hoarer ; and Lawrence Hill, late of the same
pariah and county, labourer; for that you three,
together with ■ Gkald, late of the same
parish and county, clerk; Dominick Kelly,
late of the same parish and county, clerk ; and
Phillibert Vernatt, late of the same parish and
county, labourer, who are withdrawn : not
having the fear df God before your eyes, but
feeing moved and seduced by the instigation of
the devil, the IStfe day of October, in the
thirtieth year of the reign of our sovereign
lord Charles the tecond, by the grace of God,
of England, Scotland, France and Ireland,
kio& defender of the faith, &c. at the parish of
St. Mary le Strand aforesaid, in and upon ut
JEdmundburv Godfrey, knight, in the peace of
Gqd, and of our said sovereign lord the king,
'then and there being, feloniously, voluntarily
and of your malice aforethought, did make ao
assault; and that thou the aforesaid Robert
Green, a certain linen handkerchief of the
value of six-pence, about the neck of the said
air E. Godfrey, then and there feloniously, wil-
, fully, and of thy malice aforethought, didst fold
and fasten; and that thou the said Robert
Green, with the handkerchief aforesaid, by
thee the said Robert Green in and about the
neck of the said sir Edmundbury Godfrey, in
•nanner and form aforesaid, folded and fast-
ened, then and there him the said sir Edmund-
bury Godfrey didst choke and strangle, of
which said choking and strangling of him the
•aid sir Edmundbury Godfrey, in manner and
form aforesaid, be the said sir Edmundbury God-
frey then and ^here instantly died : and that
you the said Henry Berry and Lawrence Hill,
together with the said — — Girald, Domi-
nick Kelly, and Phillibert Vernatt, then and
there feloniously, voluntarily, and of your ma-
• See the Introduction to the Trials for the
Popish Plot, vol. 6, p. 1494.
raid, Pomioick Kelly, and Phillibert Vernatt,
in manner and form aforesaid, the aforesaid
sir Edmundbury Godfrey, feloniously, wilfully,
and of your malice aforethought, did kilt and
murder, against the peace of our sovereign lord
the king, his crown and dignity.
How sayest thou, Robert Green, art thou
Guilty of this felony aud murder whereof thou
standest indicted, and hast been now arraigned,
or Not Guilty? v
Green. Not Guilty.
CI. of the Cr. Culprit, now wilt thou be tried r
Green. By God and my country.
€1. of the Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thou, Henry Berry, art
thou Guilty of the felony and morder whereof
tbou standest indicted, and hast been now ar-
raigned, or Not Guilty ?
Berry. Not Guilty.
CI. eft he Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Berry. By God and my country.
CI. of the Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thoa, Lawrence Hill, art
thou Guilty of .the felony and murder whereof
thou standest indicted, and hast been arraigned,
or Not Guilty? ^
BUL Not Guilty.
Ci. of the Cr. Culprit, bow wilt thou betried ?
Hill. By God and my country.
CI. of the Cr. God send thee a good deli-
verance.
Capt. Richardson. I desire to know when
they must be brought up to be tried I
Mr. Just. Wild. Upon Friday next.
CI. of the Cr. You shall have a rule to bring
them up on Friday.
But on Thursday, the 6th of February, Mr.
Attorney-General moved the court that it might
be deferred till Monday, that the king's evi-
dence might be tbe more ready ; which was
granted accordingly.
On Monday the 10th of February, 1679, the
said Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Law-
rence Hill, were brought again to the bar for
their trial, which proceeded as followed*.
CLqfthe Cr. Make Proclamation.
Crier. G Yes !
CI. of the Cr. Again, again.
Crier. O Yes, 0 Yes T our sovereign lord
the king doth straightly charge and command
all manner of persona to keep silence upon.
pain of imprisonment*
161] SCAl£4rBtAt4 *H3uiUtIL -m9^J* *k Muricrqf B*E/€h4frQ. [,©*
CLfik* Cr. Hake an O Yet.
4>ieA O Yesl if any one eaq inform our
Mrejp lord tbe king, the king 's serjeaut at
ir, aW king** attorney-general, or ibis inquest
co be taken of the felony and murder
wsarcaf Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Lew-
BiaV «*** nnsaners at tbe bar, stand in-
let them came forth and they shall he
for now the prisoner* Maud at the bar
their delivery. And all others that are
' h> recognisance to five evidence against
me at the bar, let them come forth
aed give their, evidence, or.. else they forfeit
tpssr rncngntnance*
. CL*j U*Cr. Robert Green, bold up thy
sand; Heavy Berry, hold up thy band : Law-
■sues Hill, bold op thy hand. Which they
severally did.
Those £pod man that you shall bear called,
and personall y appear, are to pass between our
stvr reign lord the king and you, upon trial of
jeer several lives. and deaths: if therefore you,
or any of yoa, will challenge then, or any of
them, your time is to speak unto them when
they eoeae to the book to he sworn, and before
tbry are jsworn. Crier, make an O Yes.
Critr. O .Yet ; you good men that are im-
fajiiiifli il to enquire between our sovereign lord
fee king and Robert Green, Henry Berry, and
Lawrence Hill,the prisoners at the bar, answer
le your tisanes, and save your issues.
CL <ftk£ Cr. Sir William Roberts.
Xjrimr. Vous aves, Sir William Roberts.
CLtftkeCr. Sir William Robert* to the
Critr. SirWiluam Roberts, look upon the
Nseoers : you prisoners look upon the jury.
Yoa shall w/eU and truly try, and true deliver-
ance snake, between our sovereign lord the
kae and the prisoners at the bar, whom you
shell have in charge, end a true verdict give
aneerdiog to your evidence. So help you God.
And she same oath was administered to the
met, and their names were as follow : Sir Wil-
liam Roberta, hart. Sir Richard Fisher, bait.
Sir Michael Ueaeage, kt. Sir Thomas Bridges,
kc WiUaens Averry, Chariet Humphrevile, John
Batsssfsty Riebard Gewre, Thomas Henslowe,
Joan Sterne* John Haynes, and Walter Moyie,
uasjnives*
ikt Cr. Crier, count these. Sir WU-
One,&c.
CLtftkeCr. Walter Moyle.
Crier. Twelve good men and true, stand
together, and hear your evidence. Gentle-
men, are you all sworn f and you that are not
The stsmcrmjp-pface for the jury being so
ihuuged, that ttose who were sworn had not
room to stand together, the Clerk of the
Crown was ordered to mate proclamation
thus:
(XtftUCr. Crier, make Proclamation.
Crmr. O Yes I jay lords the biagfa justices
4o atrat dy charge aad command all ipers<ms
^ Y9U r?f.
that are not of tbe jury, to withdraw forthwith*
upon pain of \00l. a man..
CL of the Cr. Robert Green, bold up thy
band; Henry Berry,- hold up. thy hand; Law-
rence Hill,, bold up thy band. Which they
severally did.
Gentlemen, ypu that are sworn, look upon
the prisoners, and hearken to their charge:
You shall understand, that they stand indicted
by the names of Robert Green, late of tbe
parish of St. Mary le Strand in tbe count? of
Middlesex, labourer; Henry Berry late of the
same parish and county, labourer; and Law-
rence Hill, late of the same parish aad county,
labourer ; for that they, together with, fee. (as
before) against the peace of our sovereign lord
the king, his crown and dignity. Upon this
indictment they bare been arrataed, they
have thereunto severally pleaded Not Guilty,
and for their trials have severally put them-
selves upon God and their country, which
country you are. Your charge is to enquire,
whether the prisoners at the bar, Robert
Green, Henry Berry, and Lawrenas Hill, or
any of them, are guilty of tbe felony and mur-
der whereof they stand indicted, or not guilty ;
and for them which you shall find guilty, you
shall enquire what goods or chattels, Jaods or
tenements, they had at the time of the felony
committed, or at any time since. If you find
them, or any of them, not guilty, you shall en*
2 aire, whether they, or any of them, that yoa
nd so not guilty, fled for the same; if you find
that they or any of them fled for the -same, you
shall enquire of their goods and chattels, as if
you had found them guilty : but if you had
them, nor any of them, not guilty, nor that
they did fly for it, say so, and no more, ami
hear your evidence. Crier, make proclama-
tion.
Crier. O Yes ! If any one will give evidence
on behalf of our sovereign lord tbe king, against
Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Lawrence
HiU, the prisoners at the bar, let them coma
forth, and they sbajl be heard.
Mr. Serjeant Stringer. May it please your
lordship, and you gentlemen ot this jury, tbe
prisoners at tbe bar, Robert Green, Henry
Berry, and Lawrence Hill, stand indicted, for
that they, with one Grrald a priest, one Kelly,
and one Vernatt, did the twelfth of October
last, at tbe parish of St. Mary le Strand in this
county, feloniously, wilfully, and of their ma-*
lice aforethought, assault the person of sir
Edmundbury Godfrey, kt. and that the prw
soever, Robert Green, did put about the neck
of the said Sir Edmund bury a twisted hand-
kerchief, and did with that twisted handker-
chief so choke and strangle the said Sir' £0%
mundbury, that he immediately died ; and that
tbe other prisoners, Henry Berry and Law-
rence- Hill, with the other persons, Girnld,
Kelly, and Vernatt, were aiding and assisting
the said* Robert Green 80 murder the atid Sir
Edmondbury ; and* so the prisonem ot the bar,
with the said other perautts, the said Sir Ed-
mondbury Godfrey did kill and murder, -
M
1
l(tf } STATE TRIALS, 3 ! Chawlbs II. 167D.— TVud of Green, Ikrry, and Hill, [16ft
agaiast the king's peace, his crown and dig-
nity. To tbbtbry have pleaded Not Guilty,
and for their trial have put themselves upon
their conntry, which country you ere. If we
trove them or any of them guilty, you are to
find it so.
Attorney General (Sir William Jones).
May it please your lordship, and you gentle-
men of this jury, the prisoners who stand now
at theibar are indicted for murder. Murder,
as it is the first, so it is the greatest crime that
is prohibited in the Second Table. It is a
crime of so deep a stain, that "nothing can
wash it away but the blood of the offender,
and unless that be done, the land in which it
is shed will continue polluted. My lord, as
murder is always a very great crime, so the
murder which is now to be tried before your
lordship is, it may be, the most heinous and
most barbarous that ever was committed.
The murder was committed upon a gentleman,
and upon a magistrate, and I wish he had nqt
therefore been murdered, because he was a
Protestant magistrate. My lord, I will not
spend much of your time in making my obser-
vations before hand, because I must in this
case crave leave to do it in the conclusion of
the evidence. For I, that have made a strict
examination into this matter, do find, that I
shall better spend my time in making obser-
vations, and shewing how the witnesses do
Agree, after the evidence given, than before.
Therefore, my l«>rd," I »hall at present only
make a short narrative of the fact, to shew
you the course of our evidence, that it may he
♦he better understood and remembered by the
iiry. My* lord, upon the discovery of the late
orrid plot
. Lord Chief Juttke (Sir William Scroggs.)
And present Plot too, Mr. Attorney : but
pray go on.
Att. Gen. If your lordshijj please, you may
call it so, for it is to be feared they have not
yet given it over: but upon the discovery of
that Plot (call it late or present) sir Edmund-
em* Godfrey (whom I suppose the jury all
knew, and every man that lived thereabouts
must needs remember to have been a very use-
ful and active justice of the peace) had taken
several examinations about this matter, and
perhaps some more than now are extant; (but
we have proof he had some) and was very in-
dustrious iu finding out the principal actors in
this plot-, among whom, some priests and Je-
suits foreseeing their own danger, and likewise
the overthrow of a design which they bad been
so long in contriving, they bad several con-
sultations bow to prevent the discovery. And
as they are men- who never stick at blood, but
rather account it meritorious to shed it, though
never so unjustly; when their interest may be
profited by it) they did resolve to secure them-
selves and their design by taking away the life
of this gentleman. In order thereunto thev
had several meetings, and the place of their
meeting, you will find, by the evidence, to
be at the Plow-alehouse, and there they did
consult how to take away the life of sir £•
Godfrey. And they made several attempts to
do it: one while they dogged him into the
6elds, another while they sent people to spy
when he came abroad, that thev might follow
him into some dark alley, or other obscure or
unfrequented place, and there dispatch him ;
and at last, after many attempts, they suc-
ceeded in that wicked one, when the murder
was committed.
My lord, there are contained in this indict*
ment six offenders, all principals; three of
them, i think, are priests, or at least two Of
them are so ; that is, Father Girald an Irish-
man, Father Kelly likewise of the same na-
tion, and one Vernatt, whether a priest or lay-
man I know not. These priests (as they are
always the first that contrive mischief, so they
are always the first that fly punishment) have
taken care for themselves, and run away, and
left their blind followers, the prisoners at the
bar, whom they had drawn into this bloody act,
alone to answer for it.
The day when this murder was committed
was Saturday the 19th of Oetober last ; and I
must desire your lordship to take notice of the
day, for upon that much of the evidence will
depend. And we shall prove, that as they did
before send several times to sir E. Godfrey's
house to get intelligence of his going abroad,
so this very day in the morning, Hill, one of
the prisoners at the bar, came to his house
upon pretence of business with him ; and, as we
guess, and have reason to believe, to learn
whither he went that day : Green (another of
the prisoners) bad been there before on the
same errand. And so much we shall prove
to you by the people of the house. Sir £.
Godfrey happened about noori, or some time
in the afternoon of the same day (as we have
it by the confession of one of the parties) to
be at an house near St. Clement's church,
where these murderers bad notice he was, and
had prepared a trap for him as he came beck.
They had appointed men to watch him, and
give them' notice when he did come back;
and whatever his business was at the house
that he was in (for it cannot yet be known)
he staid there till about seven or eight o'clock
at night: and your lordship knows that at that
time of the year it is then dark. He coming
from about St. Clement's church towards his
own house near Charing Cross, notice was
given to the murderers of his approach near to
Somerset-house. And thus they had laid
their bloody contrivance i some of them were
appointed to meet him at the back-gate ol
Somerset-bouse, and to inform* him that then
was a quarrel in the yard, and he being. a aiavc
always careful to keep the peace and pontst
them that broke it, they thought it a very ap
means to train him into the yard. And whei
he came near the back-gate they did accord
ingly acquaint biro, that two of the queen*
servants were fighting in the yard, and tha
they needed his presence to part and quie
them.. He, at first, thought it might be bu
I0S3 CTATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1 679.-: for the Murder <tf Sir E.Gotfrey. [1GC
some ordinary idle scuffle, and was not willing
to gp dawn ; but being very much importuned
by (seat, down he went, through the back-
loto toe yard, wjiere were indeed two
scuffling together, but counteifeiily ; the
•as Berry, the prisoner here; the other
was Kefly, the priest that is run away. And
when sir E- Godfrey was come, and within
tneir reach, tbeu, as it was before contrived,
the hay of itself ended, and Berry goes to the
fewer water-gate, and Mr. Praunce (who was
ie Chat foal iact, but hath since repented, and
haih ott.de this discovery) to the upper-pate,
nVkeep back any casual passengers lor a little
while, till such time as the murder was over.
My lord, things being thus prepared, whilst
av E. Godfrey stood still, or was returning,
fearing no more to do there, after the scuffle
was thus appeased, Green, one of the pri-
soners, commg behind him, puts a cravat, or a
twisted linen cloth (which he had ready for
4he purpose) about his neck. And he, Hill,
and those holy fathers Girald and Kelly (with
great veneration be it spoken, for men of their
order tostain their hands with the blood of an
iaaoant gentleman, and that in so treacherous
a manner,) all set upon him, and very man-
ually, being four upon one, and he altogether
surprized, threw him down aud strangled him.
And this was done (as it is easy to imagine)
without ranch noise ; so that I doubt not but
many that were near the place might be igno-
rant of it, and did not bear it.
• My lord, though the thing was done with a
great seal, aud a very good will to dispatch
aim, yet it so happened, that when Mr.
Praunce came back from keeping sentinel at
the gate, there was some life left in sir £. God-
frey; he did stir his feet, and thereby they
perceived that he was not quite dead. But tp
make thorough work with hrm> Green (*ho
began, and was to give an accomplishment to
1ms bloody fact) takes hold of his head and
twists his neck round, and stamps upon his
breast, the marks of which outrageous cruelty
did plainly appear in his body after it was
found.
My lord, after they had thus killed him,
draw the priest thought he was not yet dead
enough, and was very willing to run him
through with sir Edmund bury *s own sword ;
but that was not liked by the ret>t, lest it
might be discovered by a great effusion of
blood in that place ; and so they forbore it for
' that time. Having thus dispatched him, they
removed him to the chamber of Hill, where
they kept him some time, and after 'that to
another chamber. I will not be particular
herein, because the witness will give the best
account of it. But after some time, (I de-
sire it nay be observed, it was on Monday
night, two nights after the fact was committed J
they brought him into another room and lain
him there, with a doke thrown over him. And
I mention this last so particularly, because he
then happened to be seen by another witness
tare present, who concurs as to his lying there
dead, and that he saw him by the helptt'adark
Ian thorn, of which, and other circumstances, I
shall have occasion to make use herealter. .
My lord, after he had lain in Somerset*
house some days, they thought it was high time
to remove him, or rather to expose han : tor
having now killed him, they did endeavour to
kill his reputation, and lay the blame of this
foul murder upon tins innocent gentleman, as
if be had killed himself: and on Wednesday
night, which by computation was the 16th of
October, they carried him out of Somerset-
bouse in this manner : Hill having late in the
night procured a sedan, they made a shift, by
bendiug the body to a fit posture, to crowd
him into it ; and Berry, one of the murderers,
and porter of Somerset-house, was of all men
most proper to tjelp them out with privacy ;
and therefore it was agreed between them,
that whenever a man should come before and
make an hem, it should be a sign to Berry to
open the gate. And, my lord, having put
him into the sedau, Mr. Praunce and Girald
first carried him out iu it to Coven t Garden,
and there. they rested (being something wea-
ried with their burden) and two more supplied
their rooms, and carried him to Long-acre.
Then Girald and Praunce took hiin up again,
and carried him to the Grecian church near
Soho : and when .they had him there, they got
an horse ready and mounted him upon it, and
Hill was set behind him to- hold him op; by
which means they carried him to the place
where he was found ; and there, to accom-
plish the last part of their design, which was to
murder his reputation, after they had killed
his body, they took his own sword 'and run him
through, and left him in such a manner, as
that (according to the weakness of their un-
derstanding) trie world should conclude he
had killed himself. In that condition was the
gentleman found. I have but little more at
present to trouble you with, and that shall he
to shew you what the murderers did after they
had- committed this fact. They gave an ac-
count of it the next morning to Mr. Praunce,
who went no further than the sedan went,
which was to the Grecian church: and the
priests wt re so far from any remorse, and had
so little humanity, (I believe there is none can
think they had much of divinity) that they did
in a paper, set down a narrative of this heroic
act: and I doubt not, but by this time it it
sent to Rome, where it finds as great approba-
tion, snd causes as great joy, as their other
acts of a like nature have heretofore done.
Some days after the fact was done, and, to
their everlasting honour, thus by themselves
recorded, some of these priests had a meeting
at the Queen Vhead at Bow, and there was the
paper produced and read ; at which they were
very merry, and were so loud, that some of the
bouse overheard them ; and do yet remember
that they read, and were merry at, a paper
which -concerned sir £. Godfrey.
My lord, this will be the course of our evi-
dence; and though your lordship and the jury
will easily believe that most of these parties-
Jars must arise from one who was party to the
feet, yet, my lord, I will undertake, before I
have done, so to fortify almost every particular
lie delivers, with a concurrent proof of other
testimony, and the things will so depend upon
one another, and have such a connection, that
little doubt will remain in any man's mind,
that is come hither without prepossession, but
that sir £. Godfrey was murdered at Somerset-
house, and that the persons who stand now
indicted for it were the murderers.
Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies.) My lord,
if your lordship pleases, according as Mr. At*
torney hath opened it, we desire we may call
our wituesses; and first we will call Mr. Oates.
Crier. Mr. Oates, lay your hand oo the
book. Tfie evidence you shall give for our
sovereign lord the king, agaicst Robert Green,
Henry Berry, and Lawrence Hill, the pri-
soners at the bar, shall be the truth, the whole
trorh,and nothing but the truth. So h< lp youGod.
Solicitor General (Sir Francis Winnington.)
Pray, Mr. Oates, will you give my lord and
the jury an account what transactions there
were between you and sir £. Godfrey ; and
that, id? lord, is all we call him for. *
Ait. Gen. My lord, I call this gentleman
to prove what examinations sir E. Godfrey had
taken, and what was his own opinion of bim-
adf about them.
L. C. J. Mr. Attorney, I suppose the use
ou make of it is this, to shew, that that might
i one of the motives to these persons to do
this act, because he was forward in the dis-
covery of their Plot.
At I. Gen. It is so, my lord ; and that it
was his opinion himself that he should have
some mischief from them for it.
X. C. J. Come, Mr. Oates, pray tell your
knowledge.
Oates. My Lord, upon the 6th of September
last I did go before sir E. Godfrey, and there
upon oath gave in several depositions, and after
that I had made oath of those depositions, we
took the record along with us home again.
And on the 28th of September, after we had
taken two or three copies of this record, we
went before sir E. Godfrey again, and swore alt
the copies we had taken, and so made them
records. My lord, after that, the business was
made known" to the council by myself, and upon
Mprtjay Mr. Godfrey came to me, which was,
I think, the 30th of September, and did tell me,
what affronts he had received from some great
persons, (whose names I name not now) for
oeing so zealous in this business. And, my
lord, he told me, that others, who were well in-
clined to have the discovery made, did think
that be had pot been 'quick enough in the
prosecution, but had (been too remiss, and did
threaten him* that they would compidln to the
parliament, which was to sit the gist of Octo-
ber folio wing. My Lord, that week before sir
E. Godfrey was missing, he came to me, and
told me, that several jfroplsh lorc-s, some of
whom ate now in the Tower, bad threatened
C
m.~TrialofGw,hmtymdHm, [ttfg
| him, and asked bias what be had to do with it.
My Lord, I shall name their names wbentimv
shall come. My Lord, this is all I can say :
he was in a great fright, and told me, be wont
in fear of his life by the popish party, and the*
he had been dogged several days.
Att. Gen. Did he tell you that be wan
dopged ?
Oates. Yes, he did ; and I did then oak hint,
why he did not take his man with him ; be said
he was a poor weak fellow % I then asked bin*
why he did not get a good brisk fellow to at-
tend him f But be made no great matter of it ;
he said, he did not fear them, if they cense*
fairly to work ; but yet he was often threatened,
and came sometimes to me to give him tome)
encouragement ; and I did give him what en-
couragement I could that be would sotfer ia a
just cause, and the like ; bat be would often
tell me be was in continual danger of befog;
hurt by them.
Att. Gen. We desire Mr. Robinson may be-
sworn. Which was done accordingly.
Recorder. Pray sir, will you tell the eoai*>
and the jury, what discourse you bad with sir
E. Godfrey, and what apprehensions be bad
concerning this business.
Tho. Robinson, esq. (Chief Prothonotary of
the court of Common pleas.) ' My lord, sir B.
Godfrey and I were of a very ancieat ac~
quaintance for above forty years ; we wen
bred up together at Westminster-school, and
continued in that acquaintance all along, ex-
cept in the times of the war, and were for many
years together in commission for the peace, both
for this county and this city. We met at the
quarter sessions for Westminster, the 7th of
October, which was Monday, as I take it, and
meeting there, we went, after the court was op,
and dined with the head bailiff, as the custom
is; where sir E. Godfrey and I did discnurse
several things about this Plot ; I said to sir BL
Godfrey, I understand you have taken several
examinations about this Plot, that is now made
public : truly, said he, I have ; but I think I
shall have little thanks for my pains, or some
such words : saith he, I did it very unwillingly,
and would fain have had it done by others.
Why said I , you did but what was your duty to
do, and it was a very good act : pray, sir, have
you the examinations about you, will you please
to let me see them ? No, I have them not, said
he; I delivered them to a person of quality ;
but as soon as I have them, you shall see them.
But, said 1,1 should be very glad to understand,
sir Edmundbury, that the depth of the matter
were found out. I am afraid, said he, of that
that it is not ; but discoursing further, he .said
to me, ' Upon my conscience, 1 believe I shall
be the first Martyr/ Why so? said I, are von
afraid ? No, said be, I do not fear them, if they
come fairly, and I snail not part with my lip
tamely. Why do not you go with a man, said
I, if youjiave that fear upon you ? Why, saijl
he, I do not love it, it is a clog to a man. ' But.
said T, von should do well to )coep a man ; f
observe you never go with one.
Att. Gem. Bet did he teR yoo, Sir, that he
•tit) believe he should be the first martyr I
JtotimoiK* Yes, he did say, Upon his coe-
he did believe he should he the first
tyr ; assst this is all I can gay sf this busi-
Att. Gem. Then, if your lordship please, we
will, in the next place, call Mr. Praunee, who
was drawn in te he present at this business,
and who knew of all the fact, and will give you
an nooossnt of the whole matter.
Then Mr. Praunee was sworn.
Ait. Gen. Pray, Sir, begin at the^very be-
ginning ; the meetings you bad at the Plough
alehouse, and the sending to sir Edmundbury's
home, and all the story.
L. C. J. Mr. Praunee, pray tell as the first
inntites that were used to you to do this thing,
and the first time it was mentioned ; who they
were that first mentioned it, and where.
Praunee. My lord, it was about a fortnight
or three weeks before be was murdered, we met
sewal times' at the Plough alehouse.
JL C. J. With whom ?
Praunee. With Mr. Girald, Mr. Green and
Mr. Kelly. Girald and Kelly did intice me in,
and tatd me it was no sin.
Recorder. Girald and Kelly did i
JVsnmet. Yes, Girald and Kelly.
Recorder. What are they f
Praunee. Two priests : And they said, it
was no sin, it was a ebaritable act -. They said
he was a busy man, and had done and would
da a great deal of mischief, and it was a deed
of charity to do it ; and so they told the rest
Alt. Gen. Where was it they said thus r
Praunee. They said it at the Plough, and by
Recorder. Well said. How long was it before
he died?
Prmmuce. A week or a fortnight before he
was mnrdered, and Green, Hill and Girald met
there together.
AU. Gen. What discourse had you then ?
Pramnce. There they resolved, that the first
that could meet with him should give notice to
tat rest to be ready ; and so in the morning,
whan tliey went out on Saturday — —
Att. Gen. But before yon come to that, do
yea know of any dogging of him into the
Prawnce. Yes, it was before that, I heard
them say they would, and had dogged! him into
the fields.
L. C. J. Who did you he-.ir say so r
Pmutte. Gtrald, Kelly and dreen.
Att. Gen. That Green is one of the pri-
soners.
Aemrnter. Which way did they dog him ?
what fields *
Praunee. Red~tion*nelds, and those by Hol-
4*. 0e». Why: did they not kill bhn there ?
frmnee. Because thrj had not opporta-
V.-^tk*Murikrtf$#E.Go4fry. [170
Att. Gen. Do yon know'of any seeding to
hi* bouse, or going to it ?
Praunee. One time I do know of, and that
was Saturday morning, Mr. Kelly came to give
me notice, that they were gone abroad to dog
him ; and afterwards they told me, that Hill or
Green did go to his house and ask for him,
but the maid told him, he was not up, and
then went away, and said he would call by and
by.
Hill. What time was that in the reoratog F
Praunee. It was about 9 or 10 o'clock in she
morning.
Hill. And had we been there before er
after r
Praunee. You had been there before.
Recorder. Pray stay till such time as we hare
done with our evidence, you shall have all free
liberty to ask him any question j but /on must
stay till we hare dene.
Praunee. As soon as they heard he was
within, they came out and staid for his eosniog
out, and dogged him.
L. C. J. Did all three of them go to his '
house ?
Praunee. No, my lord.
L. C. J. Who was it did go f
Praunee. Only one, either Hill or Green.
L. C. J. How- do you know that ?
Praunee. They told me so themselves, fur
they came to give me notice.
L. C. J. Who told you so ?
Praunee. It was Girald and Green both.
L. C. J. Did Green tell you that he bad.
been there ?
Praunee. He told me one of them, but I am
not certain which. And so, my lord, after
that, when he came out they dogged him that
day up andjiown.
Mr. Justice Jonet. Who dogged him ?
Praunee. Girald, Green and Hill dogged hioi
into St. Clement's ; and about seven o'clock, -
Green came and gave me notice, that he was at
St. Clement s, and I came to Somerset-house as
fast as 1 could.
Z.. C. J. Where were you r
Praunee. At my own house.
I*. C. J. How far did yon live from Somer-
set-Souse ?
Praunee. J lived in Princess-street, not far
from Somerset-house.
Recorder. Who was it gave you notice f
Praunee. It was Green. He told me. that
Girald and Kelly were watching him, and that
he was at St. Clement's,
£. C J. Where was h« ?
Praunee. At St. Clement's, my lord.
L.C. J, Where there?
Praunee. I was not there, (hey told me so,
and no more; and about, eight or nine o'clock,
Hill came before, up the street, and gave qs no*
tice that we must be ready. And so^ my lord,
as soon as HiH, had given us notice, he wen* up
to the gate, and staid there till' sir £. Godfrey
came by, and t^en told hin^ there were two
men a quarrelling, and desired, bto to* come
and try whether be could pacify them: be was
171] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— IWafo/ Green, Berry, and Hill, [IK
very unwilling. But pray, Sir, saith Hill, you
being a justice of the peace, may qualify them ;
and so he went down till he came to the bot-
tom of the rails; and when he came to the bot-
tom of Che rails, Green twisted his handker-
chief, and threw it about his neck, and threw
him behind the rails, and there throttled hitn,
and punched him, and then Girald would have
thrust his sword through him ; but the rest
would not permit him, for fear it should dis-
cover them by the blood. And about a
quarter of an hour after I came down, and
found he was not quite dead ; for I laid my
band upon him, and his legs tottered and
shook, and then Green wrung his neck quite
round.
Att. Gen. Who waajt that took him by the
neck ? — Praunee. It was Green, my lord.
L. C. J. Did you see him ?
Prauncef No, but he did tell me afterwards
that be did it. -
L. C. J. Who, Green himself?
Praunee. Yes, my lord, for he boasted of it.
Ait. Gen. Pray what did he do to him be-
sides ?
Praunee. He punched him with his knee.
* L. C. J. Did you see him do this ? How do
you know be did it f
Praunee. He and the rest told me so after-
. L. C. J. Where were vou at that time the
handkerchief was twisted about his neck ?
' Praunee. As soon as I came down I went
towards the gate.
X. C J. Who ordered you to stand at the
gate?
Praunee. It was Hill.
Mr.Serj. Stringer. You watched the water-
gate, who watched the stairs ?
Praunee. That was Berry.
Recorder. Pray give an account what they
did afterwards.
Praunee. Why, afterwards——
Att. Gen. Who told you that Green
twisted 1iis neck ?
Praunee. AH spoke of it.
Att. Gen. Did Hill r
Praunee. Yes, be and tlie rest.
Alt. Gen, How came vou to understand
that he punched his breast?
Praunee. Green spoke of it himself, and so
did the others.
Att. Gen. Who were about his body when
you came down to the gate f
Praunee. All four.
Att. Gen. Name them.
Praunee. Hill, Green, Girald, and Kelly.
Att. Gen. Was Berry there r
Praunee. He came to them a while after.
Att. Gen. When ?
Praunee. Before they carried him into the
boose.
Att. Gen. How pan you teQ that ?
Praunee. Because be helped them to carry
him in.
' Sol. Gen. Where was Berry before they
carried him into the bouse ?
Praunee. Hw*was about the stairs.
Recorder. W1m> was it that curried him op
into the room ?
Praunee. We all did.
Recorder. Pray name all that were in the
company.
Praunee. Tliere was Girald, Greed, Hill,
Kelly, B.rrj, and i.
Att. Gen. Who set their hands to it ?
Praunee. We all did help ; Hiil went be-
fore and opened rjitr door, aud we carried him
id to the room.
Att. Gen. Whose room was that ?
Praunee. It was a ' chamber^ of Hill's, in
Dr. Godwin's bouse.
Recorder. Was Hill Godwin a man ?
Praunee. Yes, he had been.
Mr. Justice Jones. Did Berry help to carry
him in ?
Praunee. Yes, Berry did. .
Mr. Serj. Stringer. Was there any dis-
course of a sword to be thrust through him at
that time ?
Praunee. Yes, Girald said he would thrust
a sword through him ; but they would not let
him, for fear of discovery.
Ait. Gen. What became of the body ?
Pruunce. It lay there till Monday night,
and on Monday it was removed to Somerset
House, and upon Monday night Hill did shew
me it with a dark-lanthorn.
Att. Gen. Who were in the room then?
Praunee. Girald, and Hill, and Kelly, and
all were there. And on Tuesday night it was
brought back again : Mr. Hill would have car-
ried him into his own lodging. .
L. C. J. Whither did they carry him on
Monday night ?
Praunee. Into Somerset House.
Just. Wild. In not Hill's chamber in Somer-
set House ?
Serj. Stringer. Describe the room, Mr.
Praunee, as well as you can.
Praunee. I am not certain of the room, and
so cannot describe it.
Just. Wild. But was not U ill's chamber in
Somerset House ?
Praunee. It is in the lower part of the
house, in a court.
Att. Gen. When you saw him in this room,
pray what was thrown over him ?
Praunee. There was something, I cannot
tell what ; for I durst not stay long there.
Just. Dolben. What light was there ?
Praunee. Only a dark lanthorn.
Att. Gen. Who carried it ?
Praunee. Hill carried it.
Just. Dolben. Are you sure you saw the
body there ?
Praunee. Yes, I am certain of it.
Att. Gen. What became of it after that ?
Praunee. On Tuesday night it was carried
to. Hill's, the chamber where he was first
brought after be was murdered ; but there v*a*
somebody there, and so they could not carry it
into the room, but they carried him into a room
just over against, I think they were sir Job?
MS] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chablbs II. 1679.-; for the Murder of Sir E. Godfrey. [17*
AraaeWs lodgings, I cannot tell. There it lav
qil Wednesday night, and about nine o'clock
oa Wednesday night they were removing the
body into the room where it first lay ; and I
happened to come as tbey were removing it,
aad they were- affrighted and rob away : Bat I
spoke, and Berry came back again, and got the
hod/ an into the room, and about 1 3 o'clock they
earned it away in the sedan.
Att. Gen. Who brought the sedan ?'
Hill did.
Who put him into it ?
We all set onr hands to it.
Who carried him out first ?
I and Girald.
Out of which gate.
The upper gate of the upper court.
How came you to have the gate
Praunce.
Att. Gen.
Trounce.
Att. Gen.
Gen.
Att
P
Att. Gen
opened ?
Praunce.
Att. Gen
Praunce.
thesi«a«
Att. Gem. Who was it that carried the sedan
first ? — Prmunee. I and Girald.
Berry opened it.
How came be to open it ?
Somebody hem'd, and that was
Att. Gen.
Recorder.
Prmunee,
we rested.
■ Att. Gen.
P ran nee.
Alt* Gen.
Who went before ?
Green and KelJy.
How far did you carry him?
Into Coven t Garden, and there
And who took him up then ?
Green and Kelly.
How far did they carry him ?
Prmunee. They carried hi«n to Long- Acre.
Then we took him up, and carried him to
Soho church, and there Hill met us with an
horse, and we helped the body up.
Att. Gen. Who was it that rid behind him ?
It was Hill.
What did you do with your
Att. Gen.
?
Praunce.
We set it in a new house till we
again.
You
say you saw him on horse-
C.J.
?
Prmunee. Yes my Lord, I did.
JL. C. J. How, in what posture ?
Praunce. Astride ; his legs were forced
, and Hill held him up.
HiU. Did I hold him?
Praunce. Yes, you did.
L. Q.J. Did the others go with him ?
Praunce. Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. Who did go with him ?
Prmunee. Green, Hill, Girald and Kelly.
Att. Gen. Pray, will you tell my lord and
the Jury, what account they gave you the next
aiorning concerning the body, aod how they
had disposed of it.
Pmrnnce. They told me
L. C. J. Wlurmid you ?
Prmunee. Hill, Kelly and Girald.
L. C J. What did they tell you ?
Prmunee. First, that they had run him
through with his own sword ; then throwo him
iato a ditch, and laid his gloves and other
things upon the bank.
Att. Gen. Pray tell now the story of your
meeting at Bow. What was the house called
you met at?
Praunce. It was the sign of the QueenV
Head.
Att. Gen. Who was it that did meet there?
Praunce. They were priests ; I cannot so
well remember their names, they are written
down in this paper.
Recorder. Look on the paper yourself; you
can read, I suppose ?
Praunce. There was one Luson, a priest, I
think. \
Att. Gen. Where did he live ? • '
Praunce. He was with Vernatt.
Att. Gen. What was the occasion of your
meeting there?
Praunce., . Vernatt told me it' was only to
be merry there.
Att. ben. What was the man of the house
his name ? ^
Praunce. One Casshes.
Att. den. Did you dine there ?
Praunce. Yes.
Att. Gen. What had you for dinner?
Prmunee. We had a barrel of oysters, and
a dish of fish : I bought the fish myself.
X. C. J. What day was it ?
Praunce. The Friday after the Proclama*
tion, that all the papists were to be gene out
of town.
Recorder. Tell what company you had
there, and what discourse.
Praunce. There was Mr. Vernatt, and I, and
Mr. Girald, and that other priest, and one Mr.
Dethicke.
Att. Gen. Who sent for him ?
Praunce. Mr. Vernatt sent a note for him
by a cobler.
Att. Gen. Did he come upon that note ?
Praunce. He came presently. And when
he was come, then they read all the writing of
the murder ; for Mr. Vernatt should have
been one at the doing of it, but something hap-
pened be could not.
Att. Gen. Mr. Vernatt was very sorrowful
at the reading of it, was he not?
Praunce. If he was, it was because he was
not there.
Att. Gen. How did he behave himself?
Did he read it with any pleasure and delight ?
Praunce. We were all very merry.
Att. Gen. What can you say about any
bodv's over-hearing you ?
Praunce. There was a drawer came and
listened at the door, and I bearing the door a
little rustle, went to the door, and catched him
listening ; and said I to him, sirrah, I could
find in my heart to kick you down stairs ; and
away be went.
Just. Wild. Was Vernatt with you there
that night he was murdered, the Saturday night?
Praunce. No ; there was only the six I have
named.
Just. Jones. You say that you met at the
Plow the first night ? '.
Praunce. Yes,
175] STATE TRIALS, 51 Chauks II. \679.~Trial qf Green, Berry, and HIU, [WO
X. C. J. How ?
fust, JEJNssf. And there job were told, that
it was a very charitable act to kill iir E. God-
frey?
..JVeasre, Yes, I was so.
Just. Jane*. Was it agreed there that he
should be killed?
Preaacc. It was agreed there; and the
first that met him were to give notice to the rest.
Just. Jonei. Who were there ?
Prewaes. Girald, Kelly, Green and I.
X. C. J. When came Hill and Deny into
this cause ? How came they acquainted with it ?
Praunce. They were in it before I.
X. C. /. Who told you they were in it ?
Praunce. Mr. Girald, my ford, told me so.
Just. Jones. Hill and Berry were not at the
Plow, where did you first hear them speak of it?
Praunce, Girald and I ha?* been at Berry's
house divers times.
Just. Dolben. But there were two meetings
at the Plow, were there not?
Praunce. Yes, there were.
Just. Dolben. And Hill was at the last meet-
ing, was be not ?
Praunce. Yes, he was, my lord.
Att. Gen. Now I would ask you this question
Ly the favour of the Courtywas there any reward
proposed by these priests for the doing of it ?
Praunce. Girald and Vernatt did speak of a
gpreat reward that was to be given for it. .
Ait. Gen. Pray, how much ?
Praunce. I do not remember what.
Att. Gen. Cannot you tell how much ?
Praunce. There was to be a good reward
from my lord Bellasis, as they said.
Justice Dolben. You had several meetings,
you say : Did you there resolve what should
be the way of doing it ?
Praunce. Girald was resolved to kill him
that night ; and if he could not set him into a
more convenient place, be would kill him with
his own sword, in the street that leads to his
own boose.
Recorder. Who'was that that resolved so ?
Praunce. It was Girald.
Recorder. The priest, rather than rail, was
resolved to do that act of charity himself.
Ait. Gen. I would now ask you a question,
which though it does not prove the persons
ev, yet it gives a great strength to the evi-
*. Do you know Mr. Bedlow, Mr. Praunce.
Praunce. I do not know bias.
Att. Gen, Had you ever any conference
with him before you was committeo to prison ?
Praunce. Never in all my life.
Ait. Gen. Were yon ever in his company
in your list before, that you know of?
Pwaunee. No, not that I remember.
. At$. Gen. Wall, you shall see how fw he will
agree with you.
Recorder. Now they may ask bin any ques-
tions, if they please* for we have done with him.
L. C+ J. Let them if they will.
Hill. My lord, in the first place, I humbly
paay the* M*« Praiinee's evidence may not
stand good against mc, as being pastured by his
own confession.
Hill. I suppose, my lord»it is not unknown to
SMi that be made such an open confession ba-
re the king.
JL C /. Look you, sir, I will tell you far
that, I do not know that ever he made a con-
fession to contradict what he had said upon his
oath.-— Hill. He was upon his oath before.
L. C. J. Yes, he bad-accused you upon oath ;
but afterwards, you say, he confessed that it
was not true, but that confession that it was not
true, was not upon oath : How is he then guilty
of perjury ?
Hill. My lord, if a man can swear a thing
and after deoy it, he is certainly perjured.
X. C. J. If a man hath great horrors of eon-
science upon him, and is rail of fears, aod the
guilt of such a thing disorders his mind, so as
to make him go back from what he bad before
discovered upon oath, you can't say that man
is perjured, if be don't forswear it : But I be-
lieve no body did believe his denial, because
his first discovery was so particular, that every
man did think his general denial did only pro-
ceed from the disturbance of bis mind. Bot
have you any mind to ask him any questions?
Recorder. We can' prove, that immediately
after he retracted bis recantation.
Justice Dolben. Try if you can trap him ta
any question.
Hill. Pray what boor was k that I want to
sir Edmundbury Godfrey's ?
Praunce. About nine or ten o'clock, I am
not certain in the hour.
X. C.J. No, no, a man cannot be precise
to an hour ; but prove you what you can.
Hill. I have a great many witnesses, besides
the justice of my cause, that I was not wot of
my house that day.
X. C. J. You shall be heard for that ; bat the
present matter is, whether you will ask him amy
questions or no ?
Hill. My lord, it is all false that lie says, nod
I deny every word of it, and I hope it shall not
not be good against me.
L.C.J. Well, Mr. Berry, will you ash faim
any questions?
Berry. Mr. Praunce, who was in my bosses a
that time you speak of?
Praunce. There was your wife there, and sc
vera! other persons besides.
Berry. Who were they ?
Praunce. There were divers people ; ifcia a
ale-house.
Berry. But who? Can yon nam* **\y <
them?
Praunce. There was Girald, and KeDy*wj>el 1
X. C. J. Why, dUt yon not all know* M
Praunce?
Berry. My lord, I knew him an be
up and down m the house*
X. C. X Why, what answer is the* ?
do you mean by his passing up and d«
the house ? did you never drmk with him f
Berry, Drink with kirn* my lord I Yetsv
JL C. J. Yea? wiry people dWt oat te> drii
as they go along, ft
wfa
177] STATE TRIALS, SI Chau.es IK im.~Jbr the Murder tfStrB. Gotfrty. [178
Berry. It was in other company that came
to raj boose, no acquaintance of mine.
L. C. Jl ' Was not Mr. Praunce known by
joa all three ? which of yd a can deny it ? what
sayyoa, Hill ?,
&*/£. My l*»rd, I did know liiro.
L. C. J. What say you, Green ?
Green* Yes, I did know him.
Atl. Gen. But yet, my lord, we shall prove
ia the coarse of our evidence, that upon their
examinations, they did deny they ever knew
him; but because the prisoners give us this
occasion, I desire Mr. Praunce may give an
accoont of one thing. I|e was concerned in
this very fact, and there was no other way to
get any proof of it, than by the discovery of
one. among themselves. He was- once of that
religion, or else he bad never been concerned
jo this thing. And your lordship will find that
Jfr. Praunce, while he was of that religion,
tad not sure of his pardon, was under some dis-
turbances and fears, which prevailed with him
to come before the king, and deny what he had
sworn. But, my lord, which is very observa-
ble, this geotieroan that hod made that denial
before the king, was so far convinced that he
had done amis* in it, and so troubled that he
had done it, that he desired captain Richardson
fas soon as he returned back to prison) to carry
him back to the king again ; for he must go
back and make good that confession which he
at first bad made ; for it was every word true.
And being for the king, we desire captain
Richardson may be sworn.
, Justice Wild, Can yon tell where sir £.
Godfrey was dogged ?
. Prmuue. No, my lord, I cannot.
Justice Wild. You say they did tell yon, that
they dogged him up and down : Did not they
tell you from whence they dogged him, when
they killed him I
Praunce. No, they did not.
L.C.J. Mr. Richardson, were yon by,
when Mr. Praunce denied all that he bad con-
fcssed?
Captain Richardson. My lord, upon the
Sunday night before the prorogation of the last
parliament, I received a letter from one of the
lords of the council, to bring up Mr. Praunce
before the lords of the. committee for liiavesn*
snieatton. When I brought him thither I found
Mr. Praonce was disturbed, and desired to
sneak with the king ; and I carried him into
the king's closet, where he fell down on his
knees, and said, * He was innocent, and they
'were all innocent ;' and that was the, sub-
stance of all he said. I then had him ap to the
council, where he said- the same thing. The
lords asked him, whether any body had been
tanaering with him ? He answered* No. My
lord, when I came borne, I was no sooner got
within the doors, but he. begged of me, for
God's sake, to go back to the king* and to ac-
quaint him, not only that what he had now
said, was false; but that all which he had
sworn before, was 'troth* And if his majesty
woahJ send him a pardon, he would make a
TOL. V*II.
great discovery. And, my lord, more than
that, he said, It was fear that made him ***•
cant ; and he gave a full satisfaction, Chat it
was only out of an apprehension that his life
was not secure, that his trade would be lost
among the Roman Catholics ; - and in case ha
had his pardon, and wen saved, be shoaid
have "been in danger of being murdered by
them.
L. C. J. Now you have an account, Mr. Hill,
bow he came to deny, and how soon be recant*
ed his denial.
Justice Jones. Yon are upon your oath^Mr*
Praunce :' Is this all true that he hath said f
Praunce. Yes, my lord, it is.
Recorder. How hath he behaved himself
since that time ?
Captain Richardson. As soberly as can be,
since be had his pardon;
Ait. Gen. Pray, since that time, have you
had any discourse with him ? Aad how did he
carry himself?
Captain Richardson. Very soberly.
Att. Gen. Did he express any abhorrence of
the practice of that church?
Captain Richardson. Yes, my lord, he did
so.
Att. Gen. I hope it will make all people
abhor and forsake them in time, if these be
their practices. In the next place, my lord,
we will call Mr. Bedlow, who, though he was
not present at the murder, yet he saw the body
after it was dead in Somerset- house, which
goes to the matter as to the place ; and be
will give you some circumstances which will
very much corroborate the testimony of Mr.
Praunce.
Justice Wild. What time was it before
they carried him in, after they bad killed him I
Is. C. J. Brother, I think they say, between
eight and nine they decoyed htm through the
water-gate. Was it not so ?
Praunce. Yes, my lord.
Justice Wild. How long had they killed him
before they carried him into the room ?
Praunce. About a quarter of an hoar. -
Justice Wild. Had he bis sword about him ?
Praunce. Yes, it was found run through -
him.
Justice Wild. Did sir £. Godfrey himself
draw his sword ?
Praunce. No, he was strangled by surprise,
by getting a thing about his* neck, and prevent-
ed him of drawing bis sword.
L. C. J. They were persons that were ready
prepared for him, they would riot permit him to
defend himself.
Serjeant Stringer. My lord, before Mr.' Bed-
low be sworn, I desire a' little to open what we
call bim to. My lord, there were four priests '
that did design this murder; Le Fair* and
Welsh, and Girald and Kelly, besides the other
priests ; and they treated with Mr. Bedlow for
4,000/. to undertake to kill a gentleman. My •
lord, he did promise to undertake it, but fail-
ing of his promise, afterwards Le Fair* snet
hiiu, aad told bin it was done : and tofcr him
N
K9) $E4TB7RiA^3tGtt»A^ [Ma
be should live half- $et rewaud to kelp ta
wrykita off; and withal, carried him mta the
mom. when the hodj was. And be will tell
you Ibat Praunce was in the room when he
saw him ; and though.be never knew Praaace
before, yet when he met him in the lobby of the
lards? Hfuise, he knew kirn again* and; charged
fejm as the n*in. that com nutted this fact. And
he will acquaint your lordship, that Le Faire
$jiw, the body bkiwiae, and gave Mr. Bt dlow
an account of ilic> murder, with the same cir-
cumstances that Prauoce now relates it.
Tbcn Mr. Bcdfow was swor,n.
Recorder, Mr. Bedknv, pray do you direct
J»ttr. discourse tfr the Jtney.
X. C. J. Mr. Attorney, pray d» you ask him
yper questions* Uwt you. may put him. in that
method you would have him tab*, to give his
ejwieAce*
AU* G*n* My loroV I would, first ask him
this question : What conference he had with
any person*, pfciests of others, about murderieg
afr^bady?
Bedlow. My lord, and die .Jury, I have at
other tama% and in othec places, proved what
familiarity I have had with the priests and Je-
suits;, and if- 1. have not satisfied the Court and
otheis, about it; yet I have done my duty in en-
dflamaurieg so to do* My lord, I hire been se-
veral time* treated with, not only about the
piot, but by. several persona about murdering of
a, gentleman. They never told me who it was
that was to- be murdered ; but if I would an*
dlutalae it, they, thai, is; tie Faire end Pritchard,
and. Mr* Haines, and several other priests, who
discoursed with me about it, would find out
some to assist me, and. my reward should be
vera considerable.
X. C.J. When wet this?
Btdkm. It was in October last, about the
beginning, or the latter end of September.
X. C. J. Well, Sirr go on.
Bidiam. I did adhere to them- all along, for
I had a mind to discover two years ago, bet
was prevented ; and L only drilled them on, to
knew the party, tfaet I might prevent them.
Bat. they would never discover the party*
Att. Gen. Pr'ythee come to this particular
part of the story.
Bedlow. Afterwards they -set me to insi-
nuate myself into the acquaintance, of sir £.
Godfrey, not telling me they had a. desigtuipon
him.
i*e,j. who did?
Bedto*. Le Faire, and Pritchard, and
Welsh.
X. C. X Girald was not one, was he ?
Bedkm. No, my lord : But they told me,
that afterwards they would have me introduce
them into his acquaintance t And I had been, I
think, six or seven days together with sir £.
Godfrey, at his house ; and had got much into
his acquaintance.
-Justice Wild. By what means did yon get
inje* his acquaintance ?
Bedlam. Why, I pretended to get warrants
for the good behaviour against, persona, tkat
there were none such.
X. C. J. Well, and whet then i
Bcdlow. This was the week before theSator^
day that he was killed ; and I was there every
day but Saturday : On the Friday I went ta the
Greyhound tavern, and I sent my boy to see if
sir E. Godfrey were at home : sir E. Godfrey
was not at home then.
•X. C. X When was that ?
Bedlow. The very day before he wea kitted?
If he had been at liome, I would have goee
over to him, and would hare desired him to g*>
over to> them.
X. C. J. Were the priests there ?
Bedlow, Yes, my lord, there wae Pritciiard,.
and Le .Faire, and Welsh tfud Kaines, and
another ; five Jesuits : And, as I said, I sent;
my boy to see if he were at home, and hW
brought me word be was net ; and if he bad,
i was to hare gone to him, to have fetched?
him thither, that they might insinuate them-*
selves, iuta his acquaintance : And indeed they
had tongue enough to wheedle themselves nueV
any one's acquaintance : So he not being at-
liome, we came into the city, two of she Je*
suits and I.
Att. Gen. Which two ?
Bedlow. Le Faire and Welsh. The neat;
morning Le Faire came to my chamber, and I
wee not then within ; but by accident, I me*
him, about four of the dock, iivLincolnVIoo-
Fields* We went to the PalsgrareVHead
taveru ; where falling into discourse, he told-
me there was a gentleman there that was to be)
put out of tbe way, that was the phrase her*
used, he did not really say murder him; for
they do not coont it murder,
is. C. J. No, no ; they put it into softer *
terms.
Bedlow. They told me it was to be done*
to-night. I asked who it was ; they said it
was a very material man : For he had all the
informations, that Mr. Gate* and Dr* Tengoe-
had given in ; that several had been empfovedV
in the doing it; that several attempts bad
been made, and that they had missed severer
opportunities, and had not done it till then ;
but if he should not be taken out of tbe way,
and the papers taken from him, tbe business
would be so obstructed, and go near te be die*- -
covered, to that degree, that they would not be
able to bring this design to pass, bat must stmy
till another age before they should effect it.
I asked him again, who it was ; he said tie
would not tell me, but it was a very materiel'
men. I told him, that according to my pro-
mise, I would assist : but in such a ease, T
should need a great many men to be with me,
he being so considerable a person. I asked '
him then, where the money was, that was for*
merly promised ? He told me no worse a man
was engaged in it, than my lord Bellasis, and
Mr. Coleman had order to pay it.
Justice Jtinei. What was the reward ?•
Bedlow. Four thousand pounds.
X. C. X Who was it that first named this
tWl STAR TWALS, $) Chaixes II. IJffftHrV the MufdcrqfStr E. Gbflrej. %\\+&
they thought I had not known him. 1 diked
who it was, they said it wh,» wan that belong-
ed to a person of quality. I «u mightily
struck nnd daunted when I knew him : I woufd
fiii a hate persuaded them to hare tied weighs
at his head nnd feet, and thrown him into tht
river ; and afterwards I would liave dragged
for him* and took him up there. But they dzfl
not think that so safe t No (said they), we will
put it upon himself there are none but friends
concerned. I asked Le Paire bow they should
5*t him out ? They said, in a chair. l*hen I
asked them, which way they would get mat
into tike dhnir, and out of the gate ? They Said
the porter was to sit up to let them out.
Recorder. What porter r
Bediow. The porter of the house
Recorder. Who, Berry I
Bediow. Yes : As for that Hill, or tire ol«L
man, I do not know that I ever had any par-
ticular knowledge of them; but only I looked
upon them as ill designing men, seeing them
in the chapel.
L.C.J. Did you ever see ever a one of tht
three prisoners there at that time ?
Bedlem. No, my lord : But I have such a
remembrance of faces, that I could tell if %
•aw them again, any that I did see there,
though the light was but small. They told me,
They had strangled him ; hut how, I did not
know. When they pressed me to help to carry
him out, I then excused myself, "and said, ft
was too early to carry him out yet ; but about
eleven or twelve o'clock would be a better
time. And I assured them I would comb
ngam. Said Le Fuire to ine, ' Upon the sacra-
ment you took on Thursday, you will be at the
carrying off of this man at night ? I promised
htm I would. And be went uway^ and left tub
there. I made what speed away I coald, for
1 was very unsatisfied in myself; having so
great a charge upon me, ai the sacrament oft he
altar* which, after the discovery of the plot, was
administered to me twice a week to conceal
it. I coald not tell bow to discover it : I went
then to Bristol, but very restless and disturbed
m my mind; and being persuaded by wha$
God was pleased to put into my mind, calling
to remembrance that some murders had seen
already committed* tnd greater ones were
daily intended, I Wat at last convinced and
coald no longer forbear discovery. I wrote to
the secretary of it, and went lb the parliament
and gave in my information. And one day I
met with Mr. Pretence in the lobby, and knew
him, and apprehended him.
Ait. Qih. I will ask Jou one question. Had
you any discourse with Mr. Praunce between
the tinle ydu saw him with the bod£, aba4 the
day he was apprehended ?
Bsdhw. No j t never saw him to this day,
to have any converse with him.
Justice WM> Did not ton see Hill that
night, when you were to have carried him
away?
BddvMD. No, m? lord.
JuricglfitaV Nor Crteb^no¥ Berry?
erwdessan to yon Us be) sir Edmimdbary Goer-
Bedim. They never named him to roe
ataJL
JLC J. Let us know when yon first knew
it to be sir Sdmwmibury Godfrey ?
Bedhw. I parted with him then, but came
not according to my promise. I was to meet
aim at the cloisters at Somerset-house that
tigs*: bat I knew their design was to murder
Dswjcuudy, and I would not come. I taw him
bo snore oil Mowday mgbt ; theu I met him in
Bed- Lion-Court, where be put up his cane to
ass nose, aw who sbousd say, I was to blame in
not keeping my promise. And we weat toge-
ther to the Greyhound tavern in Fleet-street,
where he charged me with my breach of pro-
I tutd mm I was taken up by other
merry* and enless they would tell me who it
I was to kill, I would have no hand in it :
For I eld not know but that h might be my own
particular friend. And I would not morder
any private person, wntesa I knew who it was,
asm for what reason. Well, says lie, we will
td) you more anon if you meet me to-night at
SeuwAseMiouse, at nine o'clock. I did meet
him exactly at that time in the cloisters, where
we walked, and talked a great while. And
then he took me into the middle of tbe courts
anil told me, you have done ill, that you did
not help in ihts business ; bat if yon will help
to carry him off, yon shall hate half the reward.
Why, said I, is he murdered ? Yes, said he.
May I not set) hhn, said i ? Yes, you may, sard
he ; anal so took me by the hand, and led rte
into the room through a dark entry. In the
room were a great many, I cannot tell who
they all were.
Att. Gen. How many were there ?
Bediow. There might stand a great many
behind one another. I saw four or five.
JmtoctJomru What kind of a light bad they,
Mr. Praunce ?
Prtmnee. It was a middle sited lanthoro.
Justice Jesus. Was * a emaH light* er a great
light?
Bediow. It was a small light.
Jaetset Jbnea. Had they no light but that
Bediow. No : Add they did riot open it till
I had had a turn about the room.
L. €. J. Did they diseovrse df carrying hind
Bedhw. Yes, they die.
L. C. J. Dili yoa know liioa, whom he lay
?
Bediow- Yes, your lordsliip shall bear how
sokawwhnu: One tiered to the body ;
off oh* thing that la) upon him, and
it and looked apod hint; and he had got
about bis neck each ft kind of a fashioned cravat
aa this about dry neck ; and I wont to try, and
coald not gdt ay finger in betwitt : So i saw
him, his besom wee sal eeeir> and 1 knew him
prehBttry; for those Jesuits that were there,
were not the** wbw hail esnpioyed me to ibsi-
ume mjself m** *■* we^awMancij and so
168J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charlks JJ. 1679 Trial & Green, Berry, andlW, [1S4
Bedlam. Green I did see about tbe coort,
and Berry, I was told, was to open the gate
that Monday night. But, my lord, when they
found I did not come again, they desisted that
night, and kept it off longer, for fear I should
come again to stop them.
Att. Gen. lie did not refuse to help them,
bat promised to do it, and tidied : And they
finding tliat he had failed them, would not let
the body Ke where it was, for fear of discovery,
hut removed it back again.
Justice Dolben. What did Praunce say,
when you first took notice of biui ?
Bedlow. I understood afterwards that he
"was taken upon suspicion, because at that time
lis maid had made a discovery, that he was
about that time out of his lodgings. And
while he was there in the constable's hands,
Mr. Oates came by, and he desired to see him;
and presently after I came thither, and the
constable asked him, Mr. Praunce, will you
see Mr. Bedlow ? No, he said, he would not :
Then he put his hat over his eyes, that I migbt
not see his nice, and kept it so. The press
keing great, and being desirous to be private
myself; I spoke to the guard to put out all that
had no business there^and they cried out, that
all should avoid the room, but Mr. Bedlow
and hjs friends. And when he was going out
with the rest, be lifted up his hat, to see his
way ; and though before I did not mind him,
yet 1 happened at his passing by me, to cast my
eyes upon his face, and presently knew him, and
cried, Oh 1 pray, sir, sjay; you are one of my
friends that must stay here. And I presently
charged my guards to take charge of him. Saith
the constable, be is my prisoner : Is he so ? said
I; then you have a very good prisoner, and
pray look safe to him. And then when I went
into the House of Lords I made out my charge
against him.
Recorder. Now if tbe prisoners have any
questions to ask Mr. Bedlow, they may have
ire* liberty to do it.
HitL I never saw him before in my life.
X. C J. Do you know any of them ?
Bedlow. I know Mr. Berry and Green very
well.
X. CL J. Pray, Mr. Praunce j was the dark
laothorn at Hill's lodgings, or at the other place;
Praunce. At tbe other place.
JL C. J. .Look you here, Mr. Praunce; they
carried him to Hill's on Saturday night, and be
lay there till Monday night : what time on
l&oodey night, was it that they removed him
into Somerset-House ?
Praunce, I was not there when they did re-
wove him.
X. C.J. Whet time did yon see him there r
Praunce. About nine or ten o'clock.
X. C, J. What time was it that you saw him
there, Mr. Bedlow ?
Bedlow. It was after nine, my Lord.
Praunce. They had then removed him to
Somerset-House, and Mr. Hill asked what they
intended to do with the body ? l*hey said, they
would ctarj i* out that night; hut they did Dot.
But there the dark lanthorn was, and ou Tues-
day night they removed him back again.
Att. Gen. Now, My Lord, if you please, we
shall go on to call some witnesses that were not
present at the murder; for direct evidence, as
to that, came onl) out of the mouth of some
that were concerned in it ; but to corroborate,
by concurrent circumstances, the testimony
which hath been already given. And first we
shall call the constable, to prove that he found
Sir £. Godfrey in the field*, in the same man-
ner which Mr. Praunce says they told him they
left him.
X. C. J. Mr. Attorney, you promised you
would prove, that when these persons were ex*
amined, they did deny before tbe House of
Lords that they knew Praunce.
Ait. Gen. My lord, in that we were mistaken.
I understand now, it was only Berry denied
that he did know Girald.
X. C. J. Why, did yon never know Mr. Gk
raid?
Berry. Never in my life.
X. C. J. Mr. Praunce, have not you seea
Girald with Berry.
Praunce. Yes, I have, but they usually went
by several names.
X. C. J. Did you ever see Girnld in Hill's
company?— Prartnre. Yes, that 1 have.
X. C. J. Was there no centinel set that
Monday night, that Saturday uight, and that
Wednesday night ? *
Praunce. My Lord, I am not certain, I took
notice of none ; if there were any, they were
at Berry's house, and be opened the gate when
we came out with the sedan.
Att. Gen. Mr. Berry, I suppose, could take
order with the centinel, and give them some
entertaiumeut in his own lodge.
Then Mr. Brown the Constable was sworn. ,
Recorder. Pray, in. what posture did you find
sir E. Godfrey ?
Brown. I fnund him my Lord, in a ditch,
with his sword through him, and the end of it
was two hand fulls out of his back.
X. C. J. Was lie bloody ?
Brown. There was no blood at all, there was
no blood in the ditch.
X, C. J. Was the sword sticking in his bod j ?
Brown. Yes, my -Lord, but there was no
blood at all when it was taken out ; they bad
run it into another place, but that happened to
be against a rib, and so it could not go through ;
but theat was no blood there.
Justice Jones. Were there any bruises on his
breast? , .
Brown. He did look black about the breast.
Att. Gen. My Lord, I would ask whether
his neck were broken ?
Brown. Yes I suppose it was. *
X. C X How do you know it ?
Brown. It waa very weak, and one might
turn his bead from one shoulder to the other*
L. C. J. Where was bis stick and glovet*
Brown.- They were on tbe bank-side*
JL C. J. Whose iwoutwastfi
16S] STATE 1WA1A SI Chailbs II. HI79*-/«r the Murder fSrIL Gsnfky. [***
ts said it was hit own.
Hm
Att. Gesu Pray, had he any money in his
Ycs{ a great deal of gold and silver.
L & J, Ay, ay, for they count theft tin but
Wskni $her left that, to let men thiok
fcnanderedMatieaf.
L C. J. Well, wiQ yooaak this witoessany
qieaioes before be goes?
Ctet Rtchardson. They say they will ask
hmabne.
Att. Gen. Then we desire to call the chirur-
poss that ? iewed and opened the body, Mr.
SUbrd, and Mr. Cambridge. Both whom
Att. Gem. We begin with Mr. Skillard:
ftsy, sir, iaformaoy Laid and the Jury, did yon
a* the body of sir £. Godfrey ?
SkilLrd. Yes, I did view the body.
Ait. Gen. When ? What time did you see it ?
SkUUrd. About twelve of the clock.
Att. Gen. What day of the week was it ?
SkiUsrd. On Friday, the next day after be
wisfoQod.
AlL Gen. Did you observe bis breast ? How
wait
ShlUrd. His breast was all beaten with
•one obtuse weapon, either with the feet, or
bss\ or somet hing.
Att. Gen. Did you observe his neck ?
Skillard. Yes ; it was distorted.
Ait. Gen. How far ?
SkUUrd. You might have taken the chin, and
km set it upon either shoulder.
Att. Gen. Did you observe tbe wound ?
Sktilard. Yes, I did : it went in at one place
ud Hopped at a rib, the other plaee it was
ssite through the body r
Alt. Gen. Do you think be was killed by
tint wound?
SUUard. No; for then there would have
beta tome evacuation of blood, which there
*v sot And besides, his bosom was open,
tod he had a flannel waistcoat «nd a shirt on ;
ud neither those, nor any of his clothes were
P»su«ed.
AtL Gen. Bat are yon sore 'his neck had
»» broken ?
&*llard. Yes, I am sure.
Att. Gen. Because some have been of opt-
^thtthe hanged himself 7 and his relations,
toaavw sua estate, run him through; I would
^Mtoasktecharttrfeon what he thinks of it.
JwlW. There was more done to his neck
tJ»*w ordinary sutibcation; the wound went
J«*sgh hm »ary heart, and there would. have
■Ppasuii tome blood, it* it had been done
Wlj after his death.
Ak. Gen, Did it appear bv the View of the
■*£> that he was strangled or hanged ?
Sfcuwrd. He was a lean man, 'and his mus-
ncs, if he had died of the wound, would have
tea Ungjd: And then again, all strangled
gople never swell, because there is a suddea
Jpmatipn of all the spirits, and a Hindering of
•1 escalation of the blood.
Att. Gen. How long do yon believe he
might be dead before you saw him?
Skillard. I believe fear or five days* And
they might have kepc.him a week, and he never
swelled at all, being a lean mao. And when
we ripped him up, he began for to petrify; we
made two incisions to give it vent, and ihe< li-
quor that was iu his body did a little smell.
The very lean hesli was so near turned into pa*
trefaetion, that it stuck to tbe instrument when
we cut it.
Recorder. My lord, here is another chirur*
geou, Mr. Cambridge. Fray, sir, are you sworu ?
Cambridge. Yes, I am.
Recorder. When did you see the body of
sir £. Godfrey ?
Cambridge. Upon Friday, tbe very sasae
day the geutteman did. 1 round his neck dis-
located, and his breast very much beaten -and
bruised. And. I found two punctures under. bis
left pap, the one went against the rib, and the
other quite through the body under the left pap.
Att. Oen. Do you believe that wound was
the occasion of his death?
Cambridge. No; I believe it was given
him after his death.
L. C. J. And bis neck was broke ?
Cambridge. His neck was dislocated, sir..
Att. Gen. Why, that is broken. Now my
lord, we shall call wr £. Godfrey's maid, Elian*
beth Curtis. Swear tier. Which was done •
Recorder. Your lordship knows, that Mr:
Praunce did say in tbe beginning, that they had
been several times at his house, enquiring for
him : Now we call this person to tell you what
she knows about that. f
Att. Gen. Elizabeth Curtis, look upon the
prisoners, and tell my lord and the Jury whe-
ther you know any of tbein or no.
Eliz. Curtis. This man that I now heat
called Green, my lord, was at my master's
about a fortnight before be died.
L. C.J. What to dor
Eliz. Curtis. I do not know, bnt he asked
for sir £. Godfrey.
X. C. J. What time of the day was it?
Eli*. Curtis. It was in the morning.
Att. Gen. What did he say ?
Eliz. Curtis. Fie asked for sir £. Godfrey,
and wlien be cuoie to him, he said, Good mor-
row, sir, in English, and afterwards spoke to
him in (French-, I could not understand him.
Recorder. I desire she may consider well ;
look upon him.
Elix. Curtis. That is the man.
Green. Upon my soul, I never saw him ia
all my life.
Elix. Curtit. He had a dark coloured peri-
wig wben.be was there, and was about a quarter
of an hour talking with my master. ' .
Att. Gen. Are yon sure this was tbe manf
Eliz. Curtis. Yes, I am ; and that other
man, Hill, was there that Saturday morning, and
did speak with him before he went out.
L. C.J. That you will deny too?
EilL Yes, I do.
X. C. /. kHow do you know he was there ?
W) STATE TRttiS, »# Ca**fc» 1L 1679.^rr^^Ofww»Jbrty,«BtJfi» (13*
• £#& Curtis, 1 was in the parlour at chat
time, making up the fire.
, X. C. J. Had you ever seen Urn before tbnt
time?
> JE/i*. Ci<r(t«. No, never before that time. I
went into the parlour lo carry my master's
breakfast, and brought a bunch of keys with
me iay end there Hill was with him. And I
went tap stairs about some business, and came
down again, wanting the keys, which I had left
upon the table, and Ilill was all that time with
my master.
Sol. Gen. How do you know he was there ?
• Eiiz. Curtis. I was in the parloor, and stir-
red up the fire, and he was there a good while.
Justice Jones. How long after did you see
fetmaitaiu?
Eiiz Curtis. Not till I aaw htm in Newgate.
Justice Jones. How long was that afterwards ?
Eiiz. Cur fa. A month ago.: But it is not
the man tbat brought the note to my master.
Att. Gen. What note ?
v Eiiz. Curtis. A note that a man brought to
my master that night before.
Att. Gen. What is become of that note ?
Eiiz. Curtis. My lord, I cannot t^H, my
master had it.
Att. Gen. Pr'ythee tell us the story of it.
Eiiz. Curtis. There was a man came to my
master's house, and asked if sir £. Godfrey were
within. He said he had a letter for him ; and
shewed it me ; it was tied up in a knot. I told
htm my master was within, but busy ; but, said
I, if you please, I will carry it in to him. He
did so, and I gave it to my master ; when I
went out again, the man stayed and asked for
•a answer : I went in again, and told my mas-
ter, that the roan required an answer. Pr'y-
thee, said he, tell' him, I don't know what to
make of it.
. Justice Wild. When was that ?
EUz. Curtis. On Friday night.
Justice Wild. When r The Friday night be-
fore he was murdered ?
Eiiz. Curtis. Yes.
Att. Gen. But you swear, that Hill was there
the Saturday morning.
Eiiz. Curtis. Yes, he was. >
Sol. Gen. In what clothes was her then ?
Eiiz. Curtis. The same clothes that lie hath
now.-
Justice Wild. Are you sure they are the
same clothes? Elis. Curtis. Yes.
Sol. Gen. Here is a great circumstance, my
lord. I asked her what clQtbes he was is, when
hie came to sir B. Godfrey's r and she saith the
same that he hath now.
L. C. J. Have you ever shifted your clothes?
. Bill. No, indeed, I have not.
Eiiz. Curtis. But for the man tbat brought
the note, I cannot swear it is he.
MM* But she did say, when she came to
tee me in Newgate, that she never saw me m
my life; and, my lord, I hope I have sufficient
witnesses to prove where I was that. morning.
JL C. J. She says, she cannot sweat you
Welt the man that brought the tote*
Hill. &fy lard, I desire ehe will Veil mt about
what time u was I was there.
EUz. Curtis. It was about 9 or lOa'dbelr.
Alt. Gtn. That agrees with Mr. Prorate's
exactly in point of tune. Now, if your lordship
please, we will proceed, and call Mr. lanoelfot
Stringer* and Mr. Vincent* •
Recorder. My lord, we do call these wk*.
uesjses to prove, tbat these men had meetings
with Mr. Praunce at the Plow.
Then was Jjancellot Stringet sworn.
Recorder. Pray tell my lord and the jury,
wire t her you know Mr. Praunce*
L. Sinnger. Yes, sir, 1 do.
Recorder. Have you seen him at the Plow?
at any time f— L. Stringer. Yes, sir, I have.
Recorder* In what company there ? Was
Mr. Green there?
L. Stringer. Yes, he was.
Recorder. Which was he? [He points to
him.]
Recorder. And who else ?
L. Stringer. There was tbat Hill*
Att. Gen. How often ?
JL Stringer. Several times.
L. C. J. How long before sir £. Godfrey
was murdered?
L. Stringer. I cannot tell, my lord.
X. C. J. Do you remember any other eon
panv was with him ?
L. Stringer. Yea, there were several other
company.
Recorder. Name them.
L. Stringer. There was Mr. Fitz-Giffakl an<J
Mr. Hill.
Att. Gen. And yet Hill saith, he never saw
Girakl.
L. Stringer. And there was Kelly, he was
another of them, and Praunce.
L. C. J. Did you know Vernatt ?
L. Stringer. Yes, my Lord.
L. C* J. How now> What say you to it, Mr.
Hill, and Mr. Green ? Were you never at the
Plow, drinking with Mr. Praunce ?
Hill* Yes, my Lord, several times*
L. C. J. What say you, Mr. Green ?
Green. I have drank with htm there.
L. C. J. Do you know Girald ?
Hill. I know one Girald.
Sol. Gen. Now will your lordship please to
let me prove, that at the council he owned fa*
knew Girald and Kelly, and bow it is proved h#
hath been in Kelly's company, he says be does
not know Girald.
Hill. My lord, That was a mistake, ssr I dm
know Kelly by light; tbat is, I knew two mem
that- used the" chapel very much, and he wasejM
of them.
L. C. J. But you, witnesses, say you have
seen Girald and them together ?
L. Stringer. Yet, I have.
L. C. J. How many times ?
JL. Stringer. I cannot tell how maaj, mty
lord; several times.
L. €. J. Haw you sees them twite **>
gather?
Iff] SIATmTmA13> 51 ChajusssH. M9~Md*iM*der'tfSbM. Gotfuy. [1«0
JL Strmgtr. Yes, I have.
ifcrorrfrr. Now to settle it, I would e«k him,
•iib yea* lordship's favour, when be came to
live with his master. You, young man, when
did jou come to* lire with jour master at the
*owr
JL Slrimgcr. Why, I hare been with him
Recorder. But when was it you came last to
Eve at the Plow ?
JL Stringer. In- Bartholomew-tide last.
Recorder. Ik was but five weeks before Sir
Bdsrandhury* Godfrey was murdered.
JL C. J. Do you, Green, know Mr. Girald ?
Green. Yes, I do.
Rreirder. Theo pray swear Mr. Vincent.
Which was done.
Recorder. Come, pray fir, do you live at the
Vmeemt. Yes, Sir, I do.
Jfrwifej . Then prny, db» you telf my lord
sad the jury, if you know any of the prisoners
at the bar, and which of them.
Vincent. I know Mr, Green.
Recorder. Do you know any body else ?
Vincent* Yes, I' know Hill, and I know
Berry.
Recorder. Have you seen these persons at
yser bowse?
Vincent. Yes, I hare.
L. €.7. With whom?
Vincent. I can't tell every body with whom
i. C. J. Were they there with Praunce?'
Vincent. Yet, Sir.
JL C. J. Did you know one Girald ?
Fhteent. Yes, Sir.
JL C. J. Hath he been at your home?
Vincent. Yes, Sir, he hath.
L.C.J. Who was with him?
Vincent. I can't tell justly.
JL C. J. Did you know Kelly f
Vincent. Yea, I did.
' JLC-J. Hath he been there ?
Vincent. Yes, he hath.
JL C J". In what company ?
Vincent. With Praouce.
JL C. J. And with any of the prisoners ?
f. Yes, bnt I' can't tell particularly
Ait. Gen. Now, my lord, as these were
Biffing before the fact was committed, to con-
fHsrhotr to do it ; so we at the beginning told
vo« of • meeting after it was done, and that
m\ ww» at Bow. We shall therefore call some
witnesses as to that*; and they are Richard
Cary»md William Evans. First swear Richard
€arvv Which' was done.
Recorder. Do yoo remember you were
seat of a message from the Queen's-Head
at Bow, and whithett Pray tell my lord and
die Jury.
Cmry. I remember it very well ; there were
fttee gendeniea that sent for me to the Queen's
Bead, and I being sent for did come ; and
I came tip stairs, they asked me if I
Poplar; I sand, T knew ic very welt.'
Then they asked me, if I knew Mr. Dethkk %
\ told them I thought I did. Then said
they you must carry this letter to 'George
Dethick, esq. at Poplar, and deliver it to
hit own hands, and to nobody else: Ac*
cordingly away I went and carried the tetter;
I went to the door, and asked if he were with-
in ; bis roan said he was above stairs, but they
would call him to me ; nnd calling him to me,
Sir, said I, there are some gentlemen at the
Queen's- head at Bow, that have sent me with
a letter to you. So he looked upon the lei tier,
and, saith he, go and lelr them I will be with
them presently. So, may it please you, my lord,
I came again, and w hen T came, the gentlemen
were tliere still. Well, said they, go and
drink a glass of claret, which stood upon the
table, and they gave me six-pence, and I went
away.
Recorder. Prav loofc upon Mr. Praunce;
can you remember whether that man was
there ?
Cary. There were three of them, and he looks
like one.
Recorder. Mr. Prannce, do you remember
this was the man you sent ?
Prow nee. Yes, my lord, this was the same
man that was 6ent.
L. C. J. Well, call the other.
Then William Evans, the boy of the house at
the Queen's- head, was sworn.
Recorder. Hark you, do you remember any
company that was at your master's house two*
or three months agone?
W. Evans. Yes, I do. f
Recorder. Do you remember that you heard]
them talk any thing there ?
W: Evans. They pufl'd out a paper, and
read it.
L. C. J. You hoy, do you know Mr.} Die-
thick ?
W. Evans. Yes, I do.
L. C. J. Was he there f •
W. Evans. He did come to rhero, my lord.
Recorder. What had they to dinner there ?
W. Evans. They had flounders.
Recorder. Who bought them?
W. Evans. One afthera, I can't tell who.
Recorder. What had they else?
W. Evans. A barrel of oysters?
Recorder. Pray give my* Lord ah account
what you observed and heard.
, W. Evans. Sir, I know nothing but that they
pulled out a paper and read it, and nam erf
sir £. Godfrey's name. And while 1 was at the'
door, somebody threatened to kick me dovVa
stairs.
L. C. J. He saith just as Mr. Praunce said*
in every particular.
Alt. Geri. Now iflt please your lordship, we
desire to call sir Robert 'Southwell, 'to prove
what Mr. Praunce said before the council^
and how particular he was ; and did,, to some*
of the Lords who were sent with hied to So-
merset-house, point out the places,
JSol.' Gen.' We 'call" him to shew, .that* when
191] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cuaulb* II. l079^TriaI<tf>Grtx*,BetTytGkdW[ltt
Praunce was examined, before the king, he wm
. sent with- some of the Lords, and sir Robert
Southwell, to Somerset- House, where he pointed
with his finger, and shewed the. places where
all was done ; so we shall shew your lord-
ship and the jury, how exact he was in every
tiling.
Then Sir Robert Southwell was sworn.
Recorder. Pray, Sir Robert, will you tell your
knowledge ?
Sir JR. Southwell. My Lord I was upon the
24tb of December waiting upon his majesty
in council, aud Mr. Praunce was sent for, to
speak his knowledge concerning this murder,
and be then gave a general account of things,
which, because it did relate to that bench, and
this corner, and that room, and that passage
and that gallery, it was not understood by the
- board, and (hereupon his majesty thought fit to
appoint my lord duke of Monmouth, and ihe
earl of Ossory, and Mr. Vice-Chamberlain to
the queen, to go thither, and take the exami-
nation upon the place, and report it to the
board : and I, being clerk of the council, though
not in waiting at that time, aud having taken
notice of what Mr. Praunce had there deposed,
I did wait upon those Lords, and took the ex-
amination upon the place. And what I did
take upon the place, This was done here, and
that there, I drew up into a Teport, and the
report is signed by those two noble lords, and
was read that afternoon at the board ; and to
that I refer myself.
Att. Gen. rray, Sir Robert, Did he shew
the particular places to those Lords.
Sir JR. SauthweU. Yes, he did. First, the
bench whereon (hey were sitting when sir £.
Godfrey was coming down ; then the corner
into which they drew him when they had
strangled him ; then the place where one Berry
Trent to stay, which was at the stairs that lead
to the upper court ; then a little door at the
♦end of the stables, which led up a pair of stairs,
and at the bead of the stairs a long dark entry,
and at the top of those stairs, a door on the
left hand, which being opened, shewed us
eight steps, which lead up to the lodging* that
were Mr. Godwin's ; in which Hill was said to be
inhabitant for seven years before. A nd as soon
as we were pone two steps, there was a little
closet or cabinet en the right hand, in which
there was a bed, and there be shewed my
Lords, This is the place where we handed him
up first, and here we left him, said he, in the
care of Hill for two nights.
Just. Wild. You were there, Sir Robert,
upon the place, when he shewed them these
things?
Sir JR. Southwell. Yes, Sir, I was there.
Just. WUd. Was it answerable to what he
had declared to the king and council ?
Sir R. Southwell. Yes, it was answerable
to all things he had said in the morning.
Just. Jones. And suitable to what he says
now?
Sir R. Southwell. Ye*, suitable to what he
says now, but only now he says more (tar hi
said then. And as to what be says about the
chambers of sir John Arundel, the? eookl sot
be sir John's lodgings, for they were not capable
of receiving a person of that ouality.
Praunce. I said, I did believe they did be*
long to sir John Aiundel.
L. C. J. They were lodgings, perhaps, that
belonged to his servants, though not to him.
. Att. Gen. Sir Robert, I desire to know,
whether Mr. Praunce, when he shewed these
places, and made these descriptions, did he
do it with any hesitancy, or did lie do it
readily ?
Sir Robert Southwell. Hitherto, my lord, he
went directly and positively, as if any body
should walk to Westminster- hall door, fiut af-
terwards, when the lords did desire to know
whither the body was carried, he said, it was)
into some room of the boose by the garden ; for
this is an outer part of the noose, which any
body may do any thing in, without their know*
ledge that are within. And he undertook to
lead them to the,place as well as be could; and
so away^we went through the long dark entry
that leads into the outer court of the great
bouse; and crossing the quadrangle, be leads
us to the Piazza, and down a pair of stairs, and
so far, said he, I am sure I went; then, as sooa
as we were down stairs, there is a great square
court, then he began to stagger, as if be did not
know his way; but there was no way but to go
on, however, and on he went, and coming cross
the court, we came into several rooms ; and
going through them we came up stairs agaio,
and so into several other rooms again. Sure,
said he, we were here, but I can't tell, and he
was in a distraction what room he saw the
body in ; out, said he, thus far I am certain ]
am right ; which was according to the paper
and I refer myself to that.
Justice Wild. But you say, that what hi
had said to the lords in the council, wee th<
same that he said when you were by upon Uk
place? Sir Robert Southwell. Yes.
L. C. J. His doubtfulness of the room doe
assert and give credit to his testimony, and cot
firms it to any honest man in England. Hen
saith he, I will not be positive, but having swor
the other things which be well remembered, p<
siuvery, he- is made the more credible for b
doubtfulness of a thing which he does not n
member, which a man that could swear ai
thiog would not stick ar.
Justice Jones. Besides, he was not there V
by night, and all the light he had was a da
huithorn.
Sol. Gen. 'Now, sir Robert, I would ask yt
one question, if you please. Do you remensb
that Hill was examined at the council about tl
matter ?
Sir Robert Southwell. My lord, these are t
notes that I took upon these men's exacnii
tions, if your lordship pleases they oiay be ce:
Recorder. Sir Robert, we asjc you but as
one particular thing, therefore if you please
look tipen It, and refresh your memory, you a
MS] STATE TRIALS. 41 Ctuauftll. I679.-^ir«* Mw&rqfSirE. Gojfa. (life
lo yejiiaelf» and tell in only the sub-
Which be did.
SoL (3«l Now, sir,, if yon please, do 700
remember that Hill waa there?
Sir Robert SovtkmtU. Yes, I find be was
CSMMSfd.
Sol. Gen. Did Mt he deny there that be
knew Kelly, but that be knew Girald r
Sv ibeer* &***«*& Yea, I do find it here
set down, that be did deny he knew Kelly, bat
that He knew Girald.
MM. I amid I knew one Girald, but not
that.
Recorder. Bet before the council he aaid he
knew Girald, not one Girald.
. JL C J. This way of answering is like the
exaaWaaUott that was taken lately amonast
some of them. A person was asked when he
saw such * priest i He denied that he bad seen
him in fourteen days. But then comes one and
proves to hie meet that he was with him in com-
pany ail ajgbt, within a week and less. Ay,
saye fat, thai is true; bat I said I had- not seen
faun in fourteen days. And so they may take
oaths to serve the king faithfully all the days of
their lives, but in the' nights they may murder
him, and keep their oaths for all that.
Justice Do&en. I would know, whether the
Girald yoo know be a priest or no ?
Hill. He is not.
Justice Lhdben. Then yon do not know Gi-
rald the prieat»-~tftf. No I do not.
Recorder. Call Mr. Thomas Stringer. And
he was sworn.
Recorder. Pray, Mr. Stringer, will you tell
my Lord and the jury what it was that Mr.
Berry said about any directions he had to keep
all persons out of Somerset-house, about the
ISCb or 14th of October last ?
T. Stringer . My Lord, Upon bis examination
before the Lords of the committee, Berry did
say be bod orders from the queen, or in the
name of the queen, that he should suffer no
streamers nor any persons of quality to come
into Somerset-howse.
Att. Gen. When wan it be wee to beep them
orn? •
T. Stringer. The 13th, lStfi and 14th of Oct.
last.
Att. Gem. What, three days ?
T. Stringer. Two or three days. And he
said that the evince did come and be did re-
fuse him, and sent him beck again.
Recorder. Did he say he ever had any such
direction* before ? *
T. Strmgmr. Jffo: He said be never before
had any.
lt4X J. If wa»n<very unlucky thing itat he
had it then.
Bsrry. Ite prince might have gone in if be
would.
T.Shingor. T*n mid yon did refuse him,
yoo had order to let none come in.
LC.J. Had jrow new •«•* order ?
Berry. Yes my Lord, I had socman enter
fan the onewirw fetallfwn-iawef.
VOL, TH.
Berry. Yes, I hare had before, since the
queen came to Somerset-house.
X. C. /. Mr. Stringer swears you said yoe>
had aot any before.
Berry. Yes I bad.
L. C.J. Why did you deny it then ?
Berry. I did not deny it; besides, there
were several went in.
Recorder. We have proved, indeed, five or
sis did go in.
X. C. J. For how many days had yee that
order ? — Berry. Two day*.
X. C. J. Which two days ?
Berry. The XUh and 12 tb, I think therea-
bouts.
Recorder. Did yoo say before the Lords,
that you never had such orders before ?
Berry. No, I did not.
X. C. J. Mr. Berry, When you were exami-
ned before the lords, did you no u say jou never
had such orders before ?
Berry. No, I did not say so, my lotd, as I
know of; for they did not examine me about that*
X. CJ. Yoo said you would prove it under
his own band. Prove that.
Att. Gen. Mr. Stringer, did he write hie
name . to his examination ?
T. Stringer. Yes, he did to one examination*
Att. Gen. Pray look upon that ; is that his
band ?
T. Stringer. This was read to him before be
signed it, and then he did sign it.
Att. Gtn. I would foin shew it to him, to see
whether he would own it or no.
Berry. Yes, that is my hand.
Then the Clerk of the Crown read it.
CL of Cr. This is subscribed by Henry
Berry. " The Information of Henry Berry,
porter • at the gate of Somerset-house ; taken
before the right honjthe Marquis o? Winchester :
This deponent seith, that about the 18th, 13th
and 14tb of October last, he had order to test
all persons of quality, that the queen was pri*
vale, and that they were not to come m : aed
this deponent saitb, the queen continued so pri-
tare for two days/'
X. C. J. Where is that part of the examina-
tion wherein he said, be never had any such
order before?
T. Stringer. He did say so, bat it is net in
that that hath his hand to it.
Justice Wiid. Pray, my lord, observe this it*
kind of reflecting evidence, and I would have
no more made.of it than the tiling witt heat.
X. C. J. They only bring it, and make eta
of it against Berry as a presence of hie.
Justice Wild. Bat it is a very rejecting evi-
dence.
Att. Gen* Surely there is no body here that
offers it as such : We use it only to this pur-
pose, to shew that Berry, who was a party to
ems mswder,.did use alt the means that he could
to keep it private ; and endeavoured to pre-
vent siiwaara coming in that night ta discover
it ; and thereto* pretended these ordefrsv— If
he had ejrysuobotctas,! suppceehe
194] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cham.es II. 1 619.— Trial qf Green, Berry, tmd MM, [196
them, we do not say be had them ; hot it is a
great evidence* when he pretended to such
privacy, that he and his fellows had something
to do that was not fit to be known by every
body.
Recorder. He may make ose of any body's
name, and pretend "what he will ; bat I sup-
pose he will prove it from the gentleman- usher
if it he true.
Alt. Gen. We have one witness more to
call, my lord, and that is one Fair. Call Ste-
phen Farr. Which was done, and he sworn.
Alt. Gen. He is a neighbour to Berry, and
will give your lordship an account what appli-
cations have been mode to him, to tamper
with him for money, to keep away, and not
give evidence in this cause. Pray, sir, are you
Mr. Berry's neighbour ?
Farr. Yes, Sir, I am.
Alt. Gen. Pray then tell what you know.
Farr. I know him very well, his wife' hath
been with me last week, and asked me if I
knew what time be was withine on Wednesday
the 16th of October. I desired time to recol-
lect myself,: and she called four or five times
after, and I did recollect my memory and told
her, that I was not with him all that Wednes-
day.
X. C J. Why, this was reasonable, and fair
enough to do.
Att. Gen. It was so, my lord ; but pray had
you no money offered you ?
Farr. No, Sir, none at all ; and 1 told her I
could not remember that I was with bim that
day.
Perry. But you may remember it very well
when I came from the queen I came to you.
Farr. My Lord, I was out of town that Wed-
nesday, from two o'clock in the afternoon till
nine at night.
X. C. J. Well, well, this is nothing : the
woman was willing, if she could, to havecoun-
terproved the evidence, and what she did was
lair ; she offered no money, nor did it in an in-
direct way.
Alt. Gen. WLy lord, we have now done with
our evidence foV the king, and leaye it till we
hoar what they say.
X. C. J. What do you say for yourselves ?
you shall have all the free liberty you will desire.
Hill. In the first place, I take God to be my
witness, that I am wholly innocent, as to.lbe
matter that is charged upon ma : and as to
what is said that I dogged sir E. Godfrey, I
can prove thai I went into my lodging at eight
o'clock, and did not stir out.
L.C. J. Come, call your witnesses*
Hill. Mary Tildenk Catharine l«ee, Mrs.
Broadstreet; aud Daniel Gray.
X. C.J. Let them come in there.
Then Mary Ttlden was first examined.
Att. Gen. This is Dr. Godwin's niece, and
his housekeeper.
X. C. J. Well what do you ask her f
• Hill. I desire to know what you can say
aboutoy being in my lodging, and not going out.
Mary Tilden. He bath lived in our family T
or 8 years.
X. C. J. Your family, what is your family ?
Mary Tilden. With my uncle.
X. V. J. Who is your un
your uncle ?
Mary Tilden. Dr. Godwin : we left him in
the bouse always, when we were absent from
it ; he was always a trusty servaut, never kept
ill hours, always came home by eight o'clock
at night.
Justice Dolben. Alway ! for bow long f
Mary Tilden. Ever smce we came over last
in 10 England.
Justice Dolben. When was that?
Mary Tilden. In April last.
X. C. J. Were you there that night sir £.
Godfrey was killed I— Mary Tilden. I was.
L.C.J. What night was that ?
Mary Tilden. I do not know, my lord, I
heard of it in the town.
X. C. J. When did you first hear of it t •
Mary Tilden. The Thursday that he was found.
X. C. J. Did you not hear of it on the Wed-
nesday ?
Mary Tilden. Yes I did.
X. C.J. Who could tell you the Wednesday
before ?
Mary Tilden. Why, my lord, in the town it
was said he was missing from Saturday, and n
Thursday be was found.
X. C. J. What can you say concerning Hill,
that he was not out after eight o'clock tbao
night? ,
Mary Tilden. He was a very good servant to
my uncle, and never kept ill hours, but always
came in by eight o'clock, or before.
Justice Dolben. Were you not oat yourself
that night ?
Mary Ttlden. No not I, never oat after that
hour.
X. C. T. Pray how can you give such an no-
count of Mr. Hill, as if he was always in yoor
company ?
Mary Tilden. He came in to wait at table,
and did not stir out afterwards.
X. C. J. Pray, what religion are you of } nre
ydu a papist ?
Mary Tilden. I know' not whether I came
here to make a profession of ray faith.
X. C. J. Are you a Roman Catholic ?
Mary TUden! Yes.
X. C. J. Have you a dispensation to eat sup-
pers on Saturday nights ?
Recorder. 1 hope you did not keep him com-
pany, after supper, all night.
Mary 'Tilden. No, I did not, but he came in
to wait at table at supper.
X. C. J. I thought you had kept fating on
Saturday nights.
Mary Tilden. No, my lord/ not on Saturday
nights.
Justice Jona. How many dishes of meat had
you to supper ?
Mary Tilden. We had no meat, though we
did not fast.
X. C. X Can you speak positively as to this
night, the Saturday that he was killed ?
9
W7J STATE TOIALS, SI Chatu.es II. 1079.-; for the Murder of Sir E. Gojfrty. [193
J. Praunce, bow inany keys were
Jfarjr Tilde*. He was- at home that night.
2* C. J. Aod where was he the Sunday ?
JWory Tilden. He was at home.
L.C. J. And yen are sure he was at home
ever? night ?
Jim Tilde*. Yea, while we were in town.
. L. C. J. Where was you all that Wednesday
night you speak of?
■ Mary Tilde*. I was at home in my lodging.
Justice Wild. How it is possible for you to
say, that Hill, who was not yoor constant com-
panion, did not go but afterwards ?
Mary Hide*. No, be was not my constant
companion.
Justice Wild, How then can you charge
your memory that be was at home ?
L. C. J. Come, yon are to speak truth, though
yea are not upon yoor oath. Can yon charge
year memory to say that he came in constantly
at eight o'clock at night ?
Mary Tilde*. Yes; I can, because I saw
him come in constantly; and when he came
in, I always sent my maid to bar the door.
L. C. J. Maid, can you say he was always at
home at night?
Mary TUde*. I can say he never was abroad
after eight at night.
Recorder. Why, you did not watch him till
he went to bed, did you ?
Mary Tilde*, We were always up till eleven
o'clock at night.
Alt. Gen. Was be in your company all that
wbde ?
Mary Tilde*. I beg your pardon : if your
lordship saw the lodgings you would say it
were impossible for any to go in or out, but
that they most know it within/. We were con-
stant in our boors of going to supper; our doors
never opened after he came in to wait at
L. C. J. You may say any thing to a heretic,
lor a papist.
Justice Dolben. This is a mighty improbable
Justice Wild. Where was he a Wednesday
night? — Maty Tilde*. At home.
L. C. J. T*bey have a general answer for all
Jones. Who kept the key of your
ledcm*??
Maty lUdetu The maid. ~
Justice Jones. Hath Hill never kept the key ?
Mary Tilden. No, my lord, the maidl
Justice Jones. How do you know but that
the maid might let him out ?
Frannce. My lord, Mrs. Broadstreet said at
first these was but one key; but before the
duke of Monmouth she said there were sii or
key*.
JL C. J. Look you what tricks you put upon
\ to bUod us : you come and tell us that he
every night at home by eight o'clock, and
did not stir oat, lor there was but one lock,
and the maid kept the key.; and yet there were
three or four keys to it.
Mm Hide*. There was but one key to that
which kept the door fast.
L. C.
there?
Frounce. Slie confessed there were four or ,
five.
Justice Wild. What time wj» it that you
carried him out of Somerset-House on Wednes-
day night ?
Frounce. Jt was about ten or eleveu. 11 ill
went to letch the horse.
Mpry Tilden. We had never been out of
our lodgings after eight o'clock, *ince we came
to town.
Justice Jones. When were you out of town ?
Mary Tilden. In October.
Justice Dolien. Nay, now mistress, you have
spoiled all ; for in October this business was
done.
Justice Jones. You have undone the man,
instead of saving him.
Mary Tilden. Why, my lord, I only mistook
the month.
L. C. J. You woman [speaking to Mrs.
Broadstreet], what month was it you were out
of town?
Broadstreet. In September.
I*. C. J. It is apparent you consider not
what you say, or you come hitlier to say any
thiug will serve the turn,
Mary Tilden. No, I do not, for I was out of
town in September, came to town the latter
end of September.
L. C. J. You must remember what you said,
that you came to England in April lsst,-a»4
from that time he was always within at eight
o'clock at night.
Mary Tilden. Except that time we were but
of town, which was in September, the summer*
time. And it is impossible but if the body
was in the bouse, as Prauuce said it was, but
I must see biro, or some of us must I used
to go cverv day into that little room for some-
thing or other, and I must needs see him if he
were there.
L. C. J. You told me just now you were
not upon confession ; and 1 teH you now so,
you are not.
Then Mrs. Broadstreet was examined.
Justice Jones. Well, woman, what say yon f
Broadstreet. We came to town upon a
Monday, Michaelmas day was the Sunday fol-
lowing ; and from that time neither he nor the
maid used to be abroad after eight o'clock :
we kept very good hours, and he always waited
at supper, and never went abroad after he came
in to wait at supper : and the lodging was so
little, that nothing could be brought in but
they must know that were within.
L. C. J. This is a sower room than the
chamber, is it not ?
Frounce. It is «*en with the dining-room,
my lord.
JL C. J. What say you, sir Hubert South*
well?
Sir R. Southwell. My lord, it is an extra-
ordinary little place; as soon as you get op
eight tups, there it a little square entry, and
IW] STATE TRIALS, 31Cba«u»IL \679.— Trial tf Often, Berry* and Hill, [200
there is this room on the on* handy and the
dining-room on the other. I think, there is a
pair of stair* to go down at one comer of the
entry, as I think, but the body was laid in a
little sqnare room at the head of the steps.
X. C. J. And must you go into the room to
go to the diniug-room r
Broadstreet. No, it is a distinct room ; but
the key was always in the door, and every
day somebody went into it for something or
another.
X. C. J. VVill you undertake to say it was
always in the door ?
Broadstreet. Yes, it constantly was.
Justice Wild. For my own part, I will not
Judge you : but that his body should be carried
(here about nine o'clock at night a Saturday
night, and' remain there until Monday night,
it is very suspicious, that if you were in the
house, as you say you were, and used to go
into that room every day, you must either hear
it brought in, or see it.
Broa&treet. Bat we did neither, my lord.
Justice Dolben. It is well you are not in-
dicted.
Broadetreet. Mr. Praunce, you know all
these things to be false, Mr. Praunce*
Praunce. I lay nothing to your charge ; but
too said before the duke of Monmouth, that
Hill was gone from his lodgings before that
time.
X. C J. What say you, sir Robert South-
well?
Sir R. Southmett. There arose a little quar-
rel between them, about ihe time that Mr.
Httl did leave those lodging*. Praunce said it
was a fortnight after; Hill said, when he was
upon his examination, that the same Saturday
n?gfat that sir E. Godfrey was missing, he was
treating with his landlord, and from that time,
to the time he went to his new house, it was
about a week or a fortnight.
X C. J. But he did pretend he was gone
before ?
Broadstreet. No, my lord, I did not.
X. C. J. Two witnesses upon oath sware it,
and you said it yourself and gave it under yeur
hand.
Broadstreet. My lord*—
X. C. J. Nay, you wHl not bear, but you
will talk ;'yoo say one thing now, and yon set
another wader your hand.
Ait. Gen* Have you not a brother that is
in the Proclamation, one Broadstreet a priest ?
Broadstreet. I have a brother, whose name
is Broadstreet.
Atii Gen. Is he not a priest, and » the Pro-
clamation ?
Broadstreet. I hope I mast not impeach my
brother here. I said upon my oath, he came
%to town on Monday, and Michaelmas day was
the Sunday following, and Lawrence Hill went
•way a fortnight efter.
Sir JR. Southwell. She swore then, two or
three days after Michaelmas <day.
X. €. /. You mutt know we can understand
you through all your arts. Ic was not
nieat for yon at that time to say, that Mr. Hill
went awav about a fortnight after Michaelmas,
for then the tiling that was charged to be done,
part of it in your house, would have been
within the fortnight, for it was the lftb of Oc-
tober, but then you said only two or three
days.
Sir JR. Southwell. She did say, my lord, that1
about Michaelmas two or thTte or four days
after he went away.
Broadstreet. I beg your pardon, I only said,
I could not tell the time eiactly.
X. C. J. Well, have you any mora to say ?
Mary Tilden. There was never a day but I
went into that room for something or other, and
if any body came to see me, there was so
little space that the footmen were always forced
to be in that room.
Justice Dolben, Were ypo there upon Sun-
day ?
Mary Tilden. Yes, my lord, 1 was.
Justice Dolben. Well, I will say no more ;
call another witness.
Hill. Catharine Lee.
X. C, J. What can you say, maid ?
Lee. My lord, I did uover miss him out of
the house at those hours.
L. G. J. May be you did not look for him.
Lee. I did go down every night to the door,
to see if it were locked, and I went into the
parlour to see that things were safe there.
X. C. J, Yon are a Roman Catholic, sire
you not ?
Lie. Yes, I am.
Justice Dolben. Might not he go out of the
bouse, and you never the wiser?
Lee. Yes, lor I did not watch him conti-
nually.
Capt. Rienarekon. All that she says may he
true by the place. The servants keep down a
pair of stairs in the kitchen, and any ooe may
come in, or go out, having so many keys, anel
they not know it that are below,
Lee. I went into the chamber every mora*
ing, as I went to market.
Justice Wild. Have a care what yon say,
and mind the question I ask yon : were vou
there on the Sunday, in that room where tney
say sir £. Godfrey's body was laid ?
Lee. I cannot say, that I was in that room,
but I called in at the door every day, and I was
the last up every night.
Justice Wild. I will say that for thee, thou
hast spoke with more care than any of them all.
Then Daniel Gray was examined.
X C. J. What can you say ? What questions
do you ask him?
Hill. I desire him to speak what he can any,
where I was those 6ve days that sir £. Godfrey
was miasms!.
Gray. I kept my brother Hill company, from
the 8th of October, tiU he took his house, which
wss about the *tnd or gSrd.
X. C. J, What time did yen use to go to
hedf
Gray. About 9 or lOeVJoek at night;'
901] STATE THiALB, *l€aUtu»H. ItHQ.—flr *k$ Murder (f St & 0«fr& [9Uft
L.C.J. Wlautiroedidaego?
Gtwy. When I did, tut I did not Me him |0
to bed.
JL C. J. Where did you lie?
Grey, At in j own house.
L. & J. Ami veu went heme about 8 or 9
at night to go to bed?
Gray. Yea, I did.
Jen. Josef. You say he look bit house the
8th of October, when did be go thither ?
Grey. Yes, be took bis liouse the 8th of
October, but be did not go thither tilt the one
or two and twentieth.
Just. IUlben. Bet yon cannot tell what he
Ad at night ?
Gray. No, not I.
Jest. IMsm. Bet you were in his oompsny
till 8 or 9 o'clock nt night ?
Grow. Yes, uiy lord, I was.
X. V. J. How far did you lire off of him ?
Gray. About n bow's shoot.
L. C. /. Look too, Mr. Hill, he does yon no
amice at nil, for he says lie left yon about 8 or
9 o'clock at night, and he does not know what
yon did afterwards. Have yon any more ?
BO. Robert How.
JL C. J. Come, what say von?
Hem. My lord, I met with Mr. Hill the 5th
of October, be naked me whither I was going?
I told biro, home. I wish, said be, you would
go a little back with me; I am about taking of
an house, and T would have you view the re-
pain; accordingly we did go, and treated in
the house about an agreement ; for, said he, I
will not Agree with yon (to the landlord) till we
know what must be repaired. On Tuesday
morning we met ngain, abort 8 o'clock.
X. C. J. What day of the month wns that ?
Horn. The 8th. And a Wednesday about
i began to work for him, to repair his
, and we wrought that week every dny,
far 19 days and an half in all, and he was
every day with us, looking after coals, or beer,
or something. On Saturday the 12th of Octo-
ber, we dined together, and parted with him
about 1 or 9 o'clock, and n^ont 9 o'clock I
went back again to my work, and he said he
was going towards Cerent-Garden in St.
James's, but he came back again, and I was
gone first ; I asked my man whether he was
gone, or no; be said, he was there, but did
not stay.
L.C.J. What time wns that?
Hew. A httle before nif ht.
X. C. J. What honr did your man say that
he was there ?
As*. About an honr before they left work.
X. C. J. What timewas that?
How. About four o'clock, I think it was. '
L. C. J. Can yon say where he was that
night?
How. No,Icamiot.
X. C J. What religion are yon of, ere yon
sotaprotestant?
flow. Yes, my ford, I think so.
Recorder. Mjr lord ask* yon, are jon a pro-
T
How. I was never bred up in the protest***,
religion.
Primmer* He is a catholic, my lord, he wan
the queen s carpenter.
Just. Dolben. Nay, now yon spoil alt ; you
must do penance for this; what! deny your
church ?
HilL What time was it on Saturday morn-
ing I was with you?
How. About nine o'clock.
X. C. J. liow long did he stay?
How. From nine to two.
X. C. J. Are you sure it was nine ?
Haw. No man can swear punctually to aw
hour.
X. C. J. What think yon often?
Horn. It was thereabouts.
Recorder, If I am rightly informed by the
clerks, he is outlawed for recusancy.
.L. C.J. U he so ? Pray let us koow that.
Harcourt. (One of the clerks of the Crowns
Office.) My lord, I have made out several
writs against him, for several years 'together,
and could never get nay of them returned.
' Hill. He tells you, that I was with him aroan
nine o'clock on Saturday morning, till one. .
Just. Jones. But that si but as true as he it a
protestant, and how true that is, you know*
Hill. Here is another witness ; Mr. Cutler.
Tho. Cutler. Upon the 13th of October,
Lawrence Hill did come into my boose, about
four or five o'clock in the evening, and he staid
there till between seven or eight, and then his
wife came for him and said some gentlewoman
was ready for her supper, and so he went home ;
and I saw him no more, till the day after he;
was taken.
L. C. J. Look you here, he speaks only
about seven or eight o'clock* Well, have you
'any thing more to say ?
Hilt. There is one Richard Lacinhy.
Ltoinby. My lord, I was with him on Sa-
to rd ay the 19th of October, at the door, about
twelve o'clock.
X. C. J. And you dined with him and How"?
Laxinby. Yes, Sir.
X. C. J. But you did not see htm afterwards ?
Lazinby. Yes, I did see him on Wednesday
night, from fire to seven nt night.
X. C. X What time was he carried out of
Somerset* House ?
Alt. Gen. About eleven or twelve o'clock .
at night.
Lasinby. That is the last time I was with*
him.
X C. J WeH, have you any more ?
Hill. Here is one Mr. ArohboM, my lord.
Archbeld. My lord, I had occasion for ntnjr*
lor, and I came to tms man's house to seek for
one Mr. Gray, that had formerly wrought for
X. C. X When was that?
Arckbold. That was on Monday night And
behaving formerly wrought for me, I found him
at this man's house; so Mr. Gray asked snap
what news? I toid him, very good news j for
Praonce was taken for the murder of air •£.
I
90S} STATS
Godfrey. Says Hill, I am glad of that; I wish
tbey were all taken. 'I came the next day
after, and they told me he was taken oat of his
bed, for the murder of sir £. Godfrey.
X. C. J. Was it that very night that you
came, that he was taken ?
Archbold. Yes, it was.
• L.C.J. Your said he spoke of it before von
at 7 o'clock, and you left him about 9, and he
was taken that night ; what then ?
Hill. Whv, then Ihad time enough to make
my escape, if I had thought myself Guilty.
X. C. J. As no doubt you would, if you bad
thought tbey would have been so nimble with
you.
Archbold. He knew it the day before.
X. C. J. Well, have you any more to say ?
Mrs. Hill. There is Mr. Ravenscroft, my
lord.
JL C. J. What, that Ravenscroft that was
sent away ?
Mrs. Mill. Yes, my lord.
. X. C. J. Then the marshal most send for
him, if he be a witness for the prisoner. In
the mean time, what can you say for yourself,
Mr. Green ?
Green. My lord, I would call my landlord
and bis wife.
JL C. J. What are their names ?
. Green. James Warner, and his wife.
L. C. J. Call in Green's wife, and all her
witnesses.'
{Then Mrs. Hill, the Prisoner's wife, offered
aper to the Court containing Observations
upon the Indictment, which she desired them
to read ; but it was refused, and she bid to give
U her husband.]
Then Jomet Worrier was examined.
X. G. J. What say you to your landlord ?
Green. < I ask him no questions at all, but
deaireJjim to tell what he knows.
Worrier. I will say, that the 19th of Oct.,
hi was at my house, half an. hour after seven,
and he was not out of my house till after ten.
X. €. J. How can you remember that day ?
What day of the week was it ?
Worrier. It was a Saturday.
X. C. J. How do you remember it was so ?
Worrier. I have recollected my memory.
. L.C.J. By what?
Worrier. By my work, and every thing ex-
actf*.
X. C. J. When did you begin to recollect
yourself?— -WVWfF. A pretty while ago.
.X* C.J. How long after sir E. Godfrey was
mojdered ?— Wsrrier. A month after.
X* C. X What made you recollect yourself
a mouth after?
Worrier. Because he was in prison in the
Gatehouse.
JL C J. When waahe taken up ?
Worrier. He was taken up in Somerset-
Bouse* and aot in my house.
4. C. J. But when did you recollect yourself?
f$rrur. When be waijo prison*
41 Charles II. 1679 — Trial tfGretn.Ikhy, and JrKB, [204
X. C. J. But I pray remember the time when
you dio) recollect yourself, and the occasion that
made you recollect yourself when be was
taken up.
Wttrrier. I remember it very well, for be
had been in ' my house but 14 days, before he
was taken up.
Sir Thomas Stringer. lie was not taken up
for the murder of sir £. Godfrey, till the 34th
of December.
Justice Wild. Pray, did you never think of
this till he was in prison ?
Worrier. It was when be was taken up.
X. C. J. But, pray, when you came to re-
collect yourself, how did you come to dolt?
Worrier. 1 recollected it by my work.
X. C. J. But what gave you occasion to re-
collectyoorself since he was in gaol?
Sir Tho. Stringer. My lord, be was put into
gaol for refusing to take the oaihs ; but be was
not at all charged with the death of sir £. God-
frey at that time.
X. C. J. When was he put in for the death
of sir £dmundbury ?
Sir Tho. Stringer. The 94th of December.
X. C. J. Then there is all the remaining
part of October, all November, and the former
part of December, was past, how could you re-
collect yourself of the particular day?
Worrier. I called it to my mind by my work.
Captain Richardson. My lord, I will rectify
this mistake : Since their arraignment, I went
to them to know what witnesses they had, and
Green told me of bis landlord and landlady;
I then asked them, if they could say any thing
as to this particular day ? aud they said they
could not do him any good at all.
Worrier. I did not then call it to memory.
X. C. J. When did you call it to me-
mory?
. Worrier. I did say I could not do it then
presently, as I have done since, in five or sis
days.
X. C. J. How could you recollect it then ?
Worrier. By the time he came into my
house, which was a week before, and ■ by the
work that was done.
X. C. J. What cotild the work do as to this ?
Can you tell by that any thing that is done at
anytime ? W here were you the 9th of Nov. last ?
Worrier. Truly, I can't tell.
X. C. J. Whv, bow came you then to recol-
lect what you did the 12th of October, when you
did not know where you were the 9th of Nov.?
Worrier. I can tell a great many tokens, he
was but 14 or 15 days in our house.
X. C. J. What did he do tbe 12th of October,
thatyou remember so particularly that day ?
Worrier. Sir, I remember other days be-
sides that ; but I say, I uever knew the man
out after nine o'clock, in my life.
X. C. J. Have you any body else ? for this
man, I can't tall what to make on't.
Green. Here is the man's wife to give evi-
dence.
X. C. J. First consider what you say.
Mrs. Worrier. To tell you the truth, I
906) STATE TRIALS, 31 Ch able* 11. M
ftagbttbeofcan was so clear of this fact, that
I n*?er troubled my head with it ; but when
captain Richardson came to my house, I told
him, that be never was in our house by day-
time, except being cushion- layer in the coapel,
be used to come at half an hour after eleven,
and many times he did desire me, because we
were Protestants, to put in. a- little flesh meat
with oars ; sometimes he would sit down and
est his meat in the kitchen, and his wife with
him; and his wife would say to him, It is a'
troublesome time, pray see that you come home
betimes. I did not at all remember the day
of the month ax the first, npr the action; hut
njhasband am* I hare since remembered. We
were desired by them once to eat a fowl with
item ; and my husband did command me the
Saoday after to invite them to dinner with us,
sod I went in the morning very early, I think,
sad bought a dozen of pigeons, and put them
m a pye, and we bad a loin of pork roasted ;
and when be was gone to the chape) on Satur-
day in the afternoon, bis wife came to me, and
mid, my husband is not well, and when he
comes home will ask for something of broth ;
and away she went to market, to buy some-
thing to make broth of. While she was at
market, her husband came home, and asked
where his wife was ? Why, Mr. Green, said I,
she is gone to market : what an old fool, said
he, is this, to go out so late, such a night as this
is I Bat said he, again I will go to the coffee-
house, and drink a dish of coffee, and pray tell
my wife so. In the mean time she returned,
and by that time she had been above1 a little
while, be came in again. And Mr. Greeu
being there, my husband came in, and called
to me, pr'y tbee, sweetheart, what hast thou got
for my supper ? Pr*y thee, said I, sweetheart,
thou art always calling for thy victuals when
thou comest in. Then Mr. Green goes to the
stairs, and calls to bis wife, and bids her bring
him down some victuals, and she brings down
the bread and cheese, and he stayed there till
k was nine o'clock ; and then saith Mr. Green
Id his wife, Let us go up, for there is a fire.
X. C. J. What day was this, all this while ?
Mr*. Worrier. Why, it was the Saturday
fortnight after Michaelmas day.
2* C. J. Why might it not be that day three
eeks?
Mrs. Worrier. It was that day he was
Att. Gen. Why, there was no alarm taken of
k a Sunday. * .
JL C. J. When did you begin to* recollect
what davit was, that they said he was missing ?
Mrs. Worrier. On Friday morning our milk-
man came aod told us that one Mr. Godfrey
was found mordered ; now I knew one of the
Exchange of that name, and thought it might
he he. And when we went op with him. to
ms chamber, we sat there till- the Tattoo beat.
L. C.J. All the thing is, how do you know
it was this Saturday ?
Mrs. Worrier. It was the Saturday fortnight
after Michaelmas day.
!9^ar the Murder qf Sir ELOMgrey. (ft*
Justice Dolben, Are you:sure it was the Se>i
tqrday fortnight after. Michaelmas day ?
Mrs. Worrier. Yes, we did look upon the at*
manack, and reckon it so.
* Justice Dolben. Then that was the 19th of
October.
L. C. J. Why, you told him, you could do
him no good, and indeed you do not.
Justice Jones. You and your wife speak %of
the same time, do not you ? *•
Worrier, Yes.
L. C. J. Have you any more, Green ?
Cant. Richardson. There is the maid, let her
come in.
L. C. J. What say you, maid ?
Maid. I can say, that he came in the Satur-
day fortnight after quarter-day, pretty betimes.
L. C. J. Can you speak of any 'other time
besides that Satarday fortnight ?
Maid. I can tell he came in every night be- ■
fore nine o'clock.
Green. I can take my oath, I was never out
of my lodging after nine o'clock. '
Hill. My lord, here is Mr. Ravenscroft now.
L. C. J. Mr. Ravenscroft, w hat can you say r
Mr. Ravenscroft, What I can say, my lord,
is this : this Lawrence Hill, I bare known him
IS or 14 years, and he served my elder brother
so long, very faithfully. Afterwards he lived
with Dr. Godwin, towards the latter end of
the two last years, and- he married my mother's
maid.
L. C. J. What religion are you of?
tyfr. Ravenscroft. My father and mother
were Protestants.
L. C. J. But you are a Papist, are you not ?
Mr. Ravenscroft. I have not said I am a
Papist, yet.
Justice Dolben. In the mean time, I say you
are one.
Mr. Ravenscroft. Do yon so ? Then pray go
to Southwark and see.
Att. Gen. My lord, I think he bath taken
the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy.
L. C. J. Well, pray, Sir, go on with your
story.
Mr. Ravenscroft. If it please you, upon a
Saturday, a little before Christmas, there was
somebody, taken, I think it was one Mr.
Prnunce, for I never saw the man, neither do
I know him at all : and k was resorted that he
was taken upon the death of sir £. Godfrey,
and I was glad to hear it. My house wrts m
the Savoy, and ' my father's house is in ' Hoi-
born ; and I used often to go and see my
father, and coming home again, I went to see
the maid at her new house, she had .not been
long there, and she was standing at the door
of the house. I asked ber what news f Says
she, Here hath been a man here that tells us,
that Praunce hath discovered- several of the
murderers of sir £. Godfrey.; and they talk
up and down strangely of it, and ask me whe-
ther my husband be acquainted with him?
Then said I to ber, Is he ? She answered me,*
Very well, they have been often together; aujl
so she told wo theptople did mattery «nd talk
Wf] STATE TRIALS, *1 CiutnJ IL i«79—
, Berry > an& Hill, [208
of herbusbaad. But* raid I, what am your.
husband to it? Ssys she, He defies
s*sd all hk works* Said I, Where is your .hus-
band ? Said the. He it within. I was very glad
to beer it ; for, said I, he living ia Somerset*
House, and being acquainted with Prauoce, I
am glad to hear that your husband ean be so
courageous ; so I went away, and came again
thitber the next morning, and found be was
taken toe night before* Ail that I say then,
is, that it was a good evidence of his innocency,
that when, he had notice of it, he did not Ay.
ii.C. X 60 then, your discourse was after
Archbold had been there ?
Ravenscroft. Archbold was there before me,
ejsd had spoken this in their company. I spake
with her that night, sad the next mpraioff too ;
awd.aU that I say is, if flight be a sign of guilt,
as no doubt it it, Adam, ubi e$ 9 and coorege*
ausneas is a sign of innocencyr then this man
is innocent.
L> C. X But ton say, she told yon they
were acquainted ?
Mtvocntcroft. My lord, I have one thing more
to say. Upon the occasion of these things,
this woman hath been often with me, and hath
desired to know of me what defence she should
make, for I saw Hill's wife and Berry's wife
iwc all simple people, without defence for
themselves, and they did desire that I would
examine and see some of the witnesses, and see
how it was, and she had gotten me some papers,
and I conferred them together, there are wit-
nesses that will attest the' copy.
Alt. Gen. What is all this to the purpose ?
Only this gentleman bath a mind to shew that
he can speak Latin.
Raventcroft. I thank God I can speak Latin
4M well as any man in the Court.
JL C. X Well, all this is nothing.
Ravenscrqft. I declare it myself, if this man
were guilty, rather than I would speak for him,
*f there wanted a hangman, I would do it
myself.
L. C. J. Well, Berry, what have you to say ?
Berry, I desire Nicholas Trollop, and Nicho-
las Wright, and Gabriel Hasket, and Elizabeth
Wilks, aad corporal Collet may be called.
Corporal William Collet first examined.
Berry. Dty not you place a eentinel on
Wednesday night ?
Collet. What Wednesday do you speak of,
s%?
Berry. That night the queen went from 80-
saerset-Hoese to White-hall.
Collet. Yes, this Nicholas Trollop I pieced
there first, the 10th of October.
X. C. X How do you remember that?
Collet. Because I have been called to an
account before, and have given good reasons
for it. Oar company was at Somciest-bouse
when the king came from New-Market, and
the queen went to Whitehall. Afterwards we
were bid to fetch ooroentineds off asset three
or ibur of the clock m the afternoon.
Ltd J, EW ye« lesiw aj>y sosmew there ?
Colkt. No,wedklnot,aMotirc^€ns)any
to Whitehall.
Justice Ddbem. Are yon sure there were no
soldiers that night there r
Colkt. Yes, we were commanded with a
petty to go thitber again that night.
X. C. J". What did you do then ?
Collet. I placed the centinels by the Porter's
order.
X. C. X Who was that, Berry ?
Collet. No, it was one that used to go about,
and give orders where we should set them.
X. C. X How did you place them ? '
Collet. This man I placed from seven to ten*
then Nicholas Wright relieved him at tea, and
stayed till one.
JL C. J. At what place ?
Collet. To the Strand-ward.
Justice Wild. That was the gate they carried
him out at.
X. C. X Do you bear ; whereabouts did you
set the ceotinels ? Within the gate ?
Collet. Yes, within the wicket.
X. C. J. That way he was carried out ?
Nieh. Wright. There was no Sedan came
out in my time.
Trollop. There was one came in, in my time,
while 1 stood there.
X. C. J. Was it an empty Sedan ?
Trollop. I suppose it was, but we had no
order to keep any out.
Justice Wild. But you might know whether
it was an empty sedan or no, by the going of it
through the wicket.
Collet. There is an empty sedan that stands
there every night
Trollop. It was set down within the gate.
Justice Jones. If any sedan had gone oat,
you would not have staid them, would you ?
Collet. No, my lord, we had no order to
atop any.
Justice Dolben. How can you then he posi-
tive that no oue did go out?
Trollop. None did go out again in my time.
Justice Dolbeu. Could not the porter open
the gate, ae well as you ?
Collet. Yes, my lord, he could, but I should
have seen him then : He did not open it in nay
time.
Justice Wild. Let me ask you but one ques-
tion ; did not you go to drink nor tipple all diets;
time?
Trollop. No, nor walk a pike's length off the*
place of centrv.
Justice Wild. Has not Berry an house therm
hard by?
Trollop. Yes, but I did not drink
Justice Dolbeu. How can you iwmemhfer
particularly, so long ago ?
Trollop. Why, I wss twice before the
Justice Dolben. Bet how long wss it
that yos ward eoestiened about this thing
this night ?
Trollop. A matter of a month or sis weeks.
Cotier. For ws wtfeesjvntned bcforePratso
was taken up. •
JW] STATE TRIALS, 3 iCHAUJttU. 1679-r/or the Murder of Sir R Go4frey. [910
JLC J. You, Trollop, can you say whether
k was die sedan that used to be within ?
Trollop. No, I caooot, but it was brought in
in my time, and did not go out again.
Then Gabriel Hasket was> examined.
Berry. You stood there, Sir, from one to
four.
Hasket. Yes, after the clock struck one, I
was pot ceiHinel, and stood till four.
JLC. J. What night?
Hasket. That night the king came from New-
Market, and the queen went from Somerset-
House.
L. C. J. What day of die month was that ?
Hasket. The 16th.
L. C. J. What day of the week.
Hasket. Wednesday.
L. C. J. Did you not drink at Berry 's then ?
Hasket. No, I did not.
JL C. J. Did yon see Berry then ?
Hasket. No, I did not.
L. C. J. He was goue before you came?
Bern. 1 was fast enough a-bed at that time.
L.C. J. Well, what say you more ?
Berry. Here is my maid, Elizabeth Min-
slaw, to give her evidence where I was that
o%k the queen went from Somerset-House.
Just Jesses, What can you say ?
Mismsksm. May it please you, my lord, my
vaster was within doors and about the gale,
when the queen went away.
JL C. J. Who is your master ? •
Minsham. Mr. Berry. He was about the
gates ail the forenoon.
L. C. J. When was that ?
Minsaaw. The 16th of October, Wednesday.
And as soon as the queen was gone, my master
went out to bowls; and when he came home
again, be said he had been at bowls.
JL C. J. What time did be come home?
Mimskaw. It was dusky, and he was not ab-
sent all night an hoar, till he went to bed.
Jasu Wild. When did he go to bed ?
Muss/saw. My lord, 1 suppose he went to
bed abont 19 o'clock.
Just. Wild. They do not charge him with
thing, but what was done about the gate.
ost. Bolbcn. What time did yon go to bed
that night?
Msnskaw. Why, I went to bed about 12
o'clock.
Just. . Dolben. And you saw him no more
that night?
Mimskaw. No, my lord, but he must go
through my room to. go to bed at night, and
therefore I suppose he was a- bed.
Mrs. Hill. I desire Mr. Praunce may swear
why he did deny all this ?
jL C. J. Stand op, Mr. Praunce ; that gen-
tlewoman does desire to know, what induced
you to deoy what you had said.
Praunce. Jt was because of my trade, my
laid; and for fear of losing my employment
from the queen, and the catholics, which was
the most of my business, and because I- had
«* my pardon/
rot. r\u
any
Ji
Mrs. Hill. I desire be may swear whether
he were not tortured?
Just. Dolben. Answer her; were you tor*
tured to make this confession ?
Praunce. No, my lord, captain Richardson
hath used roe as civilly as any man in England ;
all that time that I have been there, I have
wanted for nothing.
L. C. J. See what he says ; that he did not
make this confession by any fortune; but he
made his recantation through fear, and the
thoughts of death, because he had no pardon;
and fear that he might live in want, by the loss
of the trade, prevailed with him to deny what
he had confessed.
Mrs. Hill. It was reported about town, that
he was tortured.
Just. Jones. No, it was nosuch thing ; it was
only the tortures of his conscience, for being
an actor in so great a sin.
Mrs. Hill. There are several about the
court, that heard him cry out : And be knows
all these things to be as false as God is true ;
and you will see it declared hereafter, when it
is too late.
L C. J. Do you think be would swear three
men out of their lives for nothing ?
Mrs. Hill. I desire he may be sworn to
that particular thing.
Justice Jones. He is upon his oath already,
and swears all this upon his oath.
Mrs. Hill. Well, I am dissatisfied ; my wit-
nesses were not rightly examined, they were
modest, and the Court laughed at them.
Berry. The centinels that were at the gate
all night, let nothing out.
X. C. J. Why, you could open the gate
yourself.
Berry. He says, he could have seen if the
gate had been open, and that, as be saw, the
gates were never opened.
Justice Dolben. Well, the Jury have heard
all, and wiU consider of it.
Mrs. HilL Here is another witness, my lord,
Mr. Chevins.
L. C. J. Well, sir, What say you ?
Chcvins. I have nothing to say, but that I
heard Mr. Praunce deny all.
L. C. J. Why, he does not deny that now.
Well, have you any more?
Chevins. We have no more.
Attorney General. My lord, I must crave
leave to speak a word or two ; and the Evi-
dence having been so very long, I shall be ex-
ceeding short. I intended when I began to
open the evidence) to have made some ob-
servations after the evidence ended ; to shew
how each part of it did agree, and how the
main was strengthened by concurrent circum-
stances. But, in truth, the king's evidence did
fall out much better than I could expect, and
the defence of the prisoners much weaker than
I could foresee. So • that, I think, the proof
against the prisoners is so strong, and so little
hath been alledged by them in their defence,
that it would be but loss of time to do what |
at first intended. Only I will observe, That
P
$11} STATE TRIALS, 3t Charles II. 1619— Trial if Green, Berry, and Hill, [21*
Mr. Bedlow doth agree with Mr. Prauncc as
far forth as is possible ; that is, . in those parts
of the fact, of which he pretends to have any
knowledge. Yet had they never any communi-
cation one with another, as both have sworn.
And your lordship will observe in how many
particulars they do agree ; namely, as to the
dark- Ian thorn, as to the covering of the body in
the room ; how they intended to carry the body
out in a sedan, and the rest. So that if they
had laid their heads together to contrive a story
they could hardly have agreed in so many cir-
cumstances ; and yet this they do, without dis-
coursing with each other before-hand.
My lord I must likewise observe to you, that
the servants of the Plow-alehouse concur as to
meetings there : The maid agrees as to the pri-
soners coming to sir £. Godfrey's house, and to
the time, viz. that' Saturday morning ; nay, to
the very hours of nine or ten o'clock ; that the
constable's relation of the posture in which the
body was found in the field, doth perfectly
agree with the account that the murderers gave
thereof to Mr. Praunce the next morning.
The chirurgeons do agree with Mr. Praunce,
as to the manner" of sir £. Godfrey's being kill-
ed, the strangling, the bruising of his stomach,
the twisting of his neck. And the witnesses
from Bow make it out, that Dethick was sent
for; that they had a dinner there. The boy
§ roves that be overheard them reading some-
ling about sir £. Godfrey, and that they were
very merry ; and that for his listening he was
threatened to be kicked down stairs.
So that, I think, there never was an evidence
that was better fortified with circumstances
than this : My lord, I shall be bold to say,
here it certainly as much evidence as the mat-
ter is capable of. It is not to be expected, that
they should call witnesses to be by, when they
do such foul facts ; so that none can swear di-
rectly the very fact, but such a one as was an
actor in it. All circumstances relating to the
fact, both before and after, are made out by
concurrent testimony. And, my lord, I must
observe, that this was a murder committed
through zeal to a false religion, nud that reli-
gion was a bond of secrecy. We all know, his
majesty hath been graciously pleased, by his
Proclamation, to propose a pardon, and a' re-
ward to the discoverers. And yet almost with-
out effect: their zeal to their false religion was
a greater obstacle, than the Proclamation was
an incitement to the discovery. And I do be-
lieve, if Mr. Praunce had not had some incli-
nation to change his religion, you had still been
without so clear a discovery of this work of
darkness, as now you have. I shall say no
more, but conclude to the jury with that say-
ing, that I remember in the Book of Judges
(iu the case of a murder too, though of another
nature), Judges xix. 30. * The people said
* there was no such deed done, nor seen, from
* the day that the children of Israel came out
S>f Egypt.' And I may say there was never
such a barbarous murder committed in England
since the people of England were free from the
yoke of the pope's tyranny ; and, as it b
there, so say I now, * Consider of it, take ad-
vice, and speak your minds.'
Mr. Solicitor General. My Lord, I would
onlv make one observation to your lordship,
which is this : I do not find they do in the least
pretend ro tax Mr. Praunce, that any person
hath bribed him to give this evidence; nor that
there was the least reward ever proposed to
him to bear witness against them, not so much
as the hopes of that reward contained in the
king's Proclamation ; yet Mr. Praunce, if he
had had a mind to bear false witness, might
have laid hold of that opportunity ; but so far
was he from pretending to discover any thing,
that he denied all when he was first appre-
hended. But after he was in hold, and likely
to be brought to justice, and lying under the
conviction of a guilty conscience, then, and not
till then, does he discover it.
There is no objection in the world to be
made, but since this discovery, Mr. Praunce
hath retracted what he said before, but he
gives you a very good account of it; the terrors
of conscience he then lay under, the fears that
be should not be pardoned, and the appre-
hensions he had from the threats on their side,
and the danger of bis utter ruin, put him upon
that denial.
But, my Lord, he tells you likewise, That as
soon as ever he was brought back to the pri*
son, he owned all he bad said at first, and de-
sired he might be carried back again to testify
the truth of what he had first sworn to. This.
my lord, he gives you an account of, and the
same account does the keeper of the prison
give too. I have nothing to say more, bat
only just to observe the many circumstances
whereby Mr. Praunce's testimony is fortified.
Mr. Bedlow does agree with him in every cir*.
cumstance, as far as his knowledge went: the
maid of the house agrees with his testimony ;
that says, she saw Green at sir £. Godfrey's
several times, though here he denies he knew/
him. That she saw Hill there that very morn-
ing her master was missed ; that he talked with
her master a quarter of an hour ; that she knevr
him by a very good token; not only by his
face, but also that he had the same clothes on.
then he hath now.
Mr. Praunce hath likewise told you of ano-
ther circumstance, the meeting at the Plow/-'
alehouse, where they laid the whole design of
entrapping sir E. Godfrey ; and herein he is for-
tified by the concurrent testimony of the roaster
of the house, and his servant too, though they
now deny that ever they had been in his com-
pany there ; or that they so much as knew Gi»
raid; though when they were examined at the
council-hoard, they said they knew Girald, but
not Kelly J and' now they are pressed with it
here, Hill retreats to this, that he knows one
Girald, bat not Girald the priest.
My Lord, I think the matter is so fully and
so plainly proved beyond exception, that there
needs no repetition in the case : it is impossi-
ble that Mr. Praunce, a man of that xnemc
1
913] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \m. --for the Murder of Sir E. Go<tfr<y. [2l£
that which was most pressing in the evidence,
he went to sir Edniundbury's house. - This he
seems to deny ; but the maid does swear it ex-
pressly upon him ; and says, she came first to
him, and went up stairs, and then came back
again, and still he was there. And she swears
positively she knows him by bis face, and by
the clothes be then had on, which are the same
clothes he hath on now, and dint is the man
that was with her master ; and this, which thej
cannot disprove, half proves the matter.
What bad he to do at sir Godfrey's house ?
But that would be an bard puzzling question
to be put to bim : What did you there ? And
therefore he is to deny it ; but the maid proves
it upon him, as well as Praunee. So that I
would have you consider how many witnesses
you have to one thing or another, all conduc-
ing to this point.
You have first Mr. Oates* that tells you the
discourse that passed between sir Edmund bury
Godfrey and him ; the maid tells you that both
these men were there, one at one time, and the
other at another ; and you have Mr. Praunee,
that knew the whole affair, who tells you so like-
wise, and that they were resolved to do the
work that day, in so much, that if they could
not doit, as they before contrived it (and sir
Edmundbury Godfrey was sensible that he was
dogged op and down), Girald did resolve to
dogg him to his own door, and kill him in the
lane that leads to his boose ; he would have ran
him through himself ; and this Girald is one of
those priests, whose church counts it no sin,
but an act of charity to murder a christian! to
propagate Christianity.
When they had way-laid him, and watched
his coming, from what place Mr. Ptaonce can-
not tell ; for he knows nothing but what they
told him, and they only named in general, that
he was lodged in St. Clement's ; aod thereupon
one comes to acquaint him, that they would en-
tice him in at the water-gate by Somerset- house,
atid they would do it with art enough, for they
never want a contrivance for4 so charitable an
act ; And it was upon this pretence that there
were two -men a wrangling and fighting, and
then he being a justice of the peace, was a per-
son that would part the fray easily.
And it was a probable intention : For sir E.
Godfrey was a man that was as willing to do all
acts of justice as any one, and as little afraid
to do it ; for the witness tells you before,
that he said, if they did do him a mischief, they
must do it basely, for he did not fear the best
of them upon fair play. Then when be was
desired to get himself a man to follow him, be
slighted the advice : And we all know, that he
was a man of singular courage, and therefore
it was the easier to lay a trap for him. Then
saith Praunee, when he was got in, Berry and .1
were to have several posts,' which we were to
go to, I to one place, and Berry to. another ;
and I staid, saith he. till Green threw the cra-
vat about his neck, and was assisted by Girald
and the rest that were there.. And then, a*
soon as we could imagine the thing to bo don**
capacity, ahooJd invent a story with so many
circumstances, sdl so consistent, if there were
not truth ax the bottom of it. He shews you
the particular places, from place to place,
where they decoyed him in, and how they dis-
posed of him, to the time they carried him out.
And in each of these circumstances there is
not the least improbability or cause to disbe-
lieve him. It hath been already so fully re-
peated, and the plainness of the evidence is so
convincing, that I need not make more obser-
vations upon it, but submit it to your lordship
and the jury.
Then the Lord Chief Justice directed the
Jury in this manner :
Look you, gentlemen of the jury, this is an
inquisition for innocent blood that hath been
shed, and jour business is to see if you can find
oat the murderers. We would not add inno-
cent blood to innocent blood: but on the other
side, if you have received satisfaction so much
as die nature of the thing can bear, then the
land is defiled, unless this be satisfied. Now,
for that I will urge the witness and testimony
no further than it does appear; for yon and we
are aff upon outf oaths to do uprightly, neither
10 spare murderers, nor condemn the innocent
In the first place, We began with Mr. Oates,
and he told you, that he had some converse
with sir E. Godfrey, and that he was threatened
by some, and had no good will for bis pains,
hi taking those examinations he had taken,
and he was afraid his life was in danger. This
he tells you was the discourse before- hand, aod
this is produced to lead you to consider what
sort of persons they were, of whom be was
likely to have these fears; for his fears did
arise from his having done bis part as a justice
of peace, in taking the examinations upon oath.
For the testimony of the fact, they produce
first Mr- Praunee, wherein you will do well to
observe all the degrees that he goes by before
the met, and all the circumstances in the trans-
action of that affair, and the parties by whom it
was to be enacted : First he tells you, how long
it was before they could entice him to consent
to such a villainy as this was to murder a man ;
he tells you by whom he was thus enticed,
which makes the story more probable ; that is,
by Girald and Kelly (two priests) ; and he tells
it you still more probably by their doctrine, that
it was no sin ; but it was rather an act of cha-
rity to kill a man that bad done, and was like to
do them mischief: So that if you consider the
persons the; preached to him, and the doctrine
they taught, it carries a great shew and pre-
sumption of truth in itself. When they had
met together at the Plow several" times (which
was denied by some of them, but is most ma-
nifestly proved by the master of the house and
the hoy), and the wished for time was' come;
for they were to watch the opportunity, and
Mr. Praunee was to be at home, and they would
call him to give his helping band ; he tells you,
that Mr. Hul did go that morning ; for though
be talks of an errand before, yet to keep to I
215] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Green, Berry, and Hill, [21G
Berry comes in, and Praunce comes back from
his standing, and by some motions finds that he
was ali? e, and that till Green twisted his neck
round ; which the Chirurgeons say was plainly
a broken neck, and nothing of the wounds
which were in hit body were given him while
he was alive.
.When they bad done this, he tells you, they
carried him to Mr. Hill's chamber : Berry, Gi-
rald, Kelly and the rest, ali helped him in, and
there they leave him. Then Praunce goes away.
This was on Saturday night. Then Praunce
comes again on Monday night, and finds him
removed to another chamber hard by, where
he saw him by the light of a darkJanlheon,
with something thrown over his face ; and after-
wards on Tuesday night following they did re-
move him back to Hill's lodgings, and there he
lay till Wednesday night, when they carried
him out.
Saith Praunce, I saw him that night : ,1 was
the man that helped to carry him out, for it
was Praunce and Girald that carried him first,
and it was Green and Kelly who went before,
and took him up afterward. He tells you, they
set him upon an horseback, and Hill behind
him. They carried him out in a chair, which
was a thing that used to come in and go out
there, and so the less notice would be taken
of it. I will observe to you afterwards, on the
prisoners behalf, what is said for them to all
this.
But as to Praunce, you see tie hath given you
an account from the top to the bottom, from
the first transaction between tbem, from the
time of his being called by them to help in the
murder, and from bis seeing the handkerchief
twisted about his neck, bis neck twisted round ;
how they disposed of his body at first ; what
removes they made, and when they carried him
out, who were in company, who relieved them,
and what became of him at last.
He says, he saw him set up before Hill on
horseback, and they told him, they had thrown
him into a ditch, and Girald bad run him through
with his own sword ; and in that posture, and
in that place the constable found him : The
chirurgeons tell you that it was by the twisting
of his neck, and the strangling,, that be was
killed, and not by the wounds ; and the very
bruising? which Praunce speaks of, were found
upon the view of the body. So that here is not
any one thing that is not backed either in some
particular circumstance or other ; besides Mr.
Praunce's testimony, who (alone) could give the
narrative of the fact.
And it is no argument against Mr. Praunce
in the world, that he should not be believed
because he was a party, or because he after de-
nied what he first said: First because you can
have no body to discover such a fact, but only
one that was privy to it : So that we can have
no evidence, but what arises from a party to
the crime. And in the next place, his denial
after he had confessed it, to me, does not at all
sound as an act of falshood, but fear. It is not
a good argument to say, that he is not to be be-
lieved because he deoied what he once ssid ;
for he tells you he had not his pardon, he was
in great consternation ; the horror of the fact
itself, and the loss of his trade and livelihood
was enough to do it. But how short was his
denial, and how quick was his recantation ! For
he denied it before the king; not upon oath :
He swore it upon oath, but he denies it upon
his word only ; but by that time he got home
to Newgate, with captain Richardson, he fell
down on his knees, and begged him for God's
sake to carry him back to the king, for what I
did say at first, said be, is true, and this denial
is false. And here could be no tampering, no
contrivance made use of; no, it is plain there
could be no art used to make him retract
from his first testimony. And these are the par*
ticulars, as to Praunce's evidence.
Then comes Mr. Bedlow, and tells you, that
he was commanded by Le Faire, and the priests
he was acquainted with to insinuate himself
into the acquaintance of sir £. Godfrey ; they did
not tell him why ; they themselves knew prin-
vately wherefore, and they did intend him an
an instrument to do it, as appears afterward.
He tells you, he got into his acquaintance, by
pretending to go for warrants for the good beha-
viour and the peace, as he knew sir £. Godfrey
was willing to have the peace kept; and he was
with him every day almost, for a week or more.
Then the priests come a little nearer, and
tampered with him to kill a man, an ill man
for their turn, und that Mr. Bedlow should be
very well rewarded, he should have 4,000/.
to kill that gentleman ; but still they kept • the
name secret. He promised tbem fair, but
broke his word. Afterwards be meets this com-
panion that he had most confidence in, and
being taxed with his breach of promise, said he.
I bad business, I could not come. Well, said
his companion, you should have been as good
as your word ; but the thing is done, the per-
son is killed, and I would nave you help to
carry him away. He promises to do it; and to
meet him at Somerset-bouse ; accordingly he
comes up on Monday in the evening, and about
nine or ten of the clock at night Mr. Bedlow
swears, that in his chamber that Praunce says
he was laid in, he did see the body by the help
of a dark-lanthorn ; and his face was covered
with a cloke or mantle, or some such thing
thrown over him.
And these two men, viz. Mr. Praunce ana Mr.
Bedlow, as the council have observed, bad not
any confederacy together, for they both swear,
that the never had any converse at all ; and
if it be so, then it is impossible for two men so
to agree in a tale, with all circumstances, if
they never conversed together, but.it must be
true.
It is hardly possible for any man to invent
such a story ; for Praunce it is, I believe. ]
find it is no bard Jthing for the priests to con-
trive such an action ; but for two witnesses tc
agree in so many material circumstances wit ft
one another, that had never conversed logo.
tber, is impossible.
£17] STATE TRIALS, .11 Chablis II. 1679.-; for the Murder qfSk E. Godfrey. [210
If all this had been a chimera, and not
really so, then Praonce most be one of the no-
tables* inventors in the world. And there must
have been the mightiest chance io the world,
that Mr. fiedlow and he should agree so in all
things ; and that the maid should swear, that
Hill was there that morning; and that the
constable should find the body, just as they
told Praonce they had left him.
So that upon toe matter, you have two wit-
nesses almost in every thing : for Mr. Bedlow,
seeing him io the place murdered, is a plain
evidence that the thing; was done ; and all the
other witnesses, speaking to circumstances both
before and after, make the evidence plain, that*
these were the persons who did it. And I see
nothing incoherent in all Mr. Praunce's testi-
mony.
I would not urge this so, if I was not satisfied
io my own conscience that the relation is true.
Id the prisoner's defeuce, there is but one thing
that hath any sort *of weight ; for the young
gentlewoman talking of his being constantly at
borne at eight o'clock, is nothing ; for she says
theysJwajsgo to bed about nine o'clock, and
ihev five no answer to this, but that it could not
he done in their house but they must know of it ;
hot do not shew how that must needs be ; so
that all their evidence isslight,aud answers itself
or else not possible to be true. All the testi-
mony that is considerable in this matter, is
that which Berry produces ; and that is con-
cerning the centinels who kept the guard that
Wednesday night the body was carried out ;
and he says, there was no sedan carried out
And although this evidence be produced hut
by one of them, yet it is to the benefit of them
ail three ; for if it were certain and infallibly
tree, that the centinels did so watch at the gate
that no mortal -could go out of the place, and
if the darkness of the night might nor binder
him from seeing what might go out, or that Mr.
Berry's voice being known to him, he might
not call to him, and so Mr. Berry might open
the gate without any mat caution, or more
particular observation by the centinel, so that
das might escape his observation or remem-
brance, and yet that the centinel be an honest
man, and speak true, as he thinks, to his best
remembrance, which I leave to your considera-
tion. But there is one thing the other centinel
tens yon, that about eight or nine o'clock (for
he went off at ten) there was a Sedan brought in,
and he did not see it go out ; and so says he that
watched from ten to one ; and this is the only
thing which bath any colour in it, in behalf of
the prisoners. But he that says there was no
body went out, says also, that he never saw the
sedan ; but the "centinel that was relieved,
says, that he saw it go in. Now how far that
single testimony of Nicholas Wright, the <:enti-
sel wiQ weigh, who says that none went out, I
leave with yon, which may be mistaken, either
by reason of the darkness of the night, or those
flther particulars I have observed to you.
Bat this a all that can overthrow the whole
ffries of the evidence that bath been given by
I
Mr. Prauncc, upon whom I find not the least
reflection, except yon will call that one, which
to me, as it is circumstanced, is rather an ar-
gument for bim than against him, viz. his
going off from what he said. And what sir Ro-
bert Southwell says is regardable, that when be
shewed them the place where he was strangled,
the house to which he was first carried, be did
it very readily and confidently, but was puz-
zled to find out the room where he was re^-
moved when he saw him by the dark lanthorn,
and would not positively assert where it
was ; which shews the integrity of the man,
who would else have gone through with-
out boggling, for if all were a lie, why
should he stick at one thing more than ano-
ther, but have shewed some room or other? but
when he was confident he appeared so, and
when he was doubtful he appeared so, and so
shewed himself an honest man.
These are the particular matters, and, as near
as I can remember, all that hath been materi-
ally offered for the prisoners, against the king's
evidence. For the testimony of tbe landlord,
Warrier, and his wife, it is plainly spoken of
another time, for it was the Saturday after the
Thursday he was found, the 19th of October.
So that they speak nothing but what is true, and
yet nothing to the purpose ; for the question
is, of that which was done the 12th; but they
speik of a iime when the tragedy was passed,
so that there is only the single evidence of one
witness, the centinel, which most be opposed
to all the concurring evidence given against
tbeui.
Berry. There was centinels placed at every
one of tbe gates.
L. C. J. That is nothing, for we speak only
of this gate, the great gate ; but I will tell yon
what there is that does not arise from these
witnesses, but from tbe nature of the thing they
were about and the persons that transacted it,
that gives credit to the testimonies of the wit-
nesses, so as to incline any one to believe them
as things stand at this day, in reference to the
known design of the priests to subvert onr reli-
gion, for they must justify one ill by another,
and the mischiefs tbey have done will not be
safe, unless they do more.
And for the priests being the preachers of
murder, and your sin, that it is charity to kill
any man that stands in their way ; their doc-
trine will make you easily believe their practice,
and their practice proves their doctrine. Such
courses as these we have not known in England
till it was brought out of their Catholic countries :
what belongs to secret stranglings and poison-
ings, are strange to us, though common in Italy.
But now your priests are come hither to be the
pope's bravos, and to murder men for tbe ho-
nour of his holiness : and as thev are inhuman
so they are unmanly too ; for sir £. Godfrey
bad not been* afraid of two or three of your
priests, if they would have dealt fairly with mm.
Berry' He was a gentleman that I never
spoke with in all my life. /
X. C. J. You must say and believe, asyoar
9U>] STATE TRIALS, SIChabwsII. 1619-— Trial qf Green, Berry, and Hill, [<2j9
priest will have you, and in snch actions as
these as jour priests suggest to you, so does the
devil to your priests ; if you are upon the mat-
ter necessitated to what they will have you
think ; for though your priests preach up free-
dom of will, yet they allow none to the under-
standing. They hold you may do good or evil,
but will not suffer you to understand right and
wrong, for you cannot be perfectly theirs, if
you have any thing of your own to guide your-
selves by. , "
I know that every body of that party is apt
to say their priests own no such thing, but it is
notoriously known to all the world, that they
both print it, and«practise it. What, shall any
of you dispute the power of a pope? saith a
Jesuit : or, of a pope and council ? say the
most moderate priests. Have you power to say
how far you will be a papist, and how far not ?
you may as well bound the sea, and bid it go
thus far, and no farther, as limit the pope's au-
thority. I wonder any man should be of that
persuasion, and yet keep his reason : much less
turn from our religion to theirs, if he considers
how they impose, and what mischiefs and blood
you are involved in by your priests, that have
alarmed the nation. For I will affirm, the
greatest mischief the papists have received,
come from their uriests, who have such un-
worthy and unmanly ways of setting up their
religion : What ! Do tpey think it an act of
charity to kill men ; or is the Christian Religion
or yours, to be promoted by such means as
these? No, gentlemen, it is the fault of your
doctrine, and it is a monstrous mistake in you,
if you think that yon have any power of your
own whilst you continue in their persuasion.
I know some will ascribe all to conscience
that guides them, and that even these mischiefs
are but the effects of their religious obedience ;
but they are indeed the consequences of the
blindness of their obedience. 1 wonder bow
any man can have the face, thus to disorder a
whole nation, and yet pretend conscience for it.
Let no man tell me, O, sir, we desire none of
these mischiefs you talk of; what, not if reli-
gion requires it, or if the pope says it does?
hath not the council of Laterun decreed that
every popish prince ought to root out heresy
upon pain of damnation 1 you must: can you
go and tell the pope how far you will believe, or
what you ought to do ? You may as well tell
me, that if he were once with us, and had the
power he once had, be would leave us to our-
selves and that if he had the same ability, he
would not have the same tyranny.
And therefore all the Roman Catholic gen-
tlemen in England would do very well to con-
sider, how much it concerns Christianity not to
give offence ; and if they cannot at this time
Eve in a Protestant kingdom with security to
their neighbours, but cause such fears and dan-
gers, and thai, for conscience sake, let them
keep their consciences but leave the kingdom.
If they say, why should notwestay here, while
we do no mischief ? Alas, that is not in your
power. You cannot be quiet in your own reli-
gion, unless you disturb ours ; and therefore,
if to shew your consciences you acquit the conn-
try, and let the inconveniencies light op your-
selves only, I should then think you had seal,
though not according to knowledge ; and not
ascribe it to any plot, but to the simplicities of
understanding.
But, in short, there is a monstrous evidence
of the whole plot itself by this fact ; for we can
ascribe it to none, but such ends as these, that
such a man must be killed; for it must be
either because he knew something the priests
would not have hiin to tell, or they must do it
in defiance of justice, and in terror to all them
that dare execute it upon them ; which carries
a great evidence in itself, and which I leave to
your consideration; having remembered, as
well as I could, the proofs against them, and all
that is considerable for them. Add to this the
condition that we are in at this time, and the
eagerness of the pursuit that these priests make
to gain the kingdom, that, for my own part, I
must put it into my litany, That God would
deliver me from the delusion of Popery, and
the tyranny of the Pope : For it is a yoke
which we, who have known freedom, cannot
endure, and a burden which none but that
beast who was made for burden, will bear. So
I leave it to your consideration upon the whole
matter, whether the evidence of the fact does
not satisfy your consciences, that these men
are Guilty. And I know you will do like
honest men on both sides.
[Then the Jury withdrew to consider of
their verdict, and after a short space returned
again.]
Cl.ofCr. Gentlemen, answer to your names.
Sir Wdliam Roberts.
Sir William Roberts, Here. And so the)
rest.
CI. of Cr. Gentlemen, are you all agreed of
your verdict i—Omnes. Yes.
CI. qfCr, Who shall say for you ?
Omnes. Our foreman.
CI. of Cr. Robert Green, hold up thy band
(which he did). Look upon the prisoner; how
say you, is Robert Green Guilty of the felony
and murder whereof he stauds indicted, or Not
Guilty ?
Foreman* Guilty.
CL of Cr. What goods or chattels, lands Of
tenements ?
Foreman. None, to Qur knowledge.
CL of Cr. Henry Berry, bold up thy band
(which be did). Look upon the prisoner. Bow
say you, is Henry Berry Guilty of the felony
and murder whereof he stands indicted, or Not
Guilty ?
Foreman. Guilty.
CI. of Cr. What goods or chattels, lands or
tenements?
Foreman. None, to our knowledge.
CL of Cr. Lawrence Hill, hold up thy hau«l
(which he did). How say you, is Lawrence Hill
Guilty of the felony and murder whereof he)
stands indicted, or Not Guilty ?
Guilty.
CI. of Cr. What goods or chattels, lands or
221] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or the Murder of Sir R Godfrey. (223
lord; I think they always plead in custody of
the marshal.
Justice Wild. But this seems a very bar*
barous thing, to take their clothes off their
backs.
Justice Dolben. It doth so, brother, and they
must be restored.
L C. X' Yes, ye;, you must restore them*
Ashby. They shall he, my lord.
Recorder. I pray your Judgment,
L. C. J. Ask them what they can say to bin*
der Judgment.
CI. of Cr. Robert Green, bold up thy "band
(which he did). Thou hast been indicted of
felony and murder, thou hast been thereupon
arraigned, thou hast pleaded thereunto Not
Gailty, and for thy trial thou hast put thyself
upon God and thy Country, which Country
hath found thee Guilty ; what hast thou to say
for thyself, why the Court should not proceed
to give judgment of death upon thee, and award •
execution according to the law ?
Captain Richardson. What have you to say
for yourself?
Grrten. I declare to all the world, that I
am as innocent of the thing charged upon me,
as the child that is in the mother's womb.
I die innocent, I do not care for death. I go
to my Saviour, and I desire all that hear me to
pray for me. I never saw the man to my
knowledge, alive or dead.
CI. of Cr. Henry Berry, hold up thy hand
(whieh he did). Thou hast been indicted of
felony and murder, &c. what canst thou say,
ore.
Berry. I do declare, I am not guilty of any
thing in the world of this.
L. C. J. We do not expect much from yon,
and it is no great matter ; for your confession
will do us little good, but only for yourselves'.
We regard it not otherwise, because the evi
dence was so plain, that all mankind is satisfi-
ed, there is no scruple in the thing; and we
know you have either downright denials, or eva-
sions, or equivocating terms for every thing ;
yet in plain-dealing, every one that heard your
trial hath great satisfaction ; and for my own
particular, I have great satisfaction that you
are every one of you guilty.
Cl.qfCr. Lawrence Hill, hold up thy hand
(which he did). Thou hast be A indicted of
felony and murder, &c, what canst thou say,
he.
Hid. I have nothing to say for myself, but
that God Almighty knows my innocence.
CI. of Cr. Crier, make an 0 Yes,
Crier. O Yes ! Our sovereign lord the king
doth strictly charge and command all manner
of persons to keep silence, whHst Judgment is
giving upon the prisoners convicted, upon pain
of imprisonment ; peace about the Court.
Then Mr. Justice Wild, who, as second judge
in that Court, pronounced the Sentence in all
criminal matters, except High Treason, spoke
to the prisoners thus :
Justice Wild. You that art the prisoners at
Foreman. None, to oar knowledge.
CI. of Cr. Hearken to your verdict, as the
Court hath recorded it. You say that Robert
Green is Guilty of the felony and murder
whereof be stands indicted. You say that
Henry Berry is Guilty of the felony and murder
whereof he stands indicted. You say that Law-
rence H31 is Guilty of the felony and' murder
whereof he stands indicted ; and that neither
they nor any of them, had any goods or chat-
tels, lands or tenements, at the time of the fe-
lony committed, or at any time since, to your
knowledge. And so you say all.
Qames. Yes.
L. C. J. Gentlemen, you have found the
same verdict that I would have found if I had
been one with yon ; and if it were the last word
I were to speak in this world, I should have pro*
nonnced them Guilty.
At wVuch words the whole assembly gave a
{reat about of applause.
Ait. Gm. Will your lordships please to give
Judgment this evening ? I know it is not usual
the lame day.
Justice Wild. My lord, I am ready.
L. C. J. No, brother, I am to sit at Nisi
Proa this afternoon, and it is time we broke up
the Court.
Ci. of Cr. Captain Richardson, you shall have
a role to bring them to-morrow. And then the
Court broke np.
Ob Tuesday, the 11th of February, the Pri-
soners were brought again to the bar, in order
to receive tbeir Sentence ; and the Court pro-
ceeded thus :
Recorder. My lord, as I was directed by Mr.
Attorney, these prisoners being convicted of
murder, I do, for the king, pray Judgment upon
•hem ; but I must first acquaint your lordship,
mat immediately after their conviction, one of
the officers, a tipstaff, pretending it was his fee,
took their clothes off their backs.
L. C. J. Who is that officer ?
Recorder. One Ashby.
L. C J. Call him. Why do you offer to
meddle with these men's clothes ?
A*koy. It bath been an ancient custom this
40 years, some of us have known it, that the
nanaalhath the upper garment of all prisoners
tried at this bar.
J* C. J. (Speaking to a Clerk of the Crown
Office). Is there any .such custom, Mr. Water-
boose?
Waterhous*. No, my lord, not that I know
of.
L. C. J. Here ia Mr. Waterhouse, that hath
faumn the practice of the Court this three-score
jeers, savs there is no such thing. Either re-
aore them their clothes, or we will take some
acher course with you. Are they in your ens-
Justice f Dolben. I do not know that, my
233) STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— Trial ef Green, Berry, and Hill, [994
the bar, you have all three been indicted for a
detestable murder, and thereunto have pleaded
Not, Guilty ; and put yourselves for your trial
opou your country ; and your country, upon a
clear 'and pregnant evidence, I believe Co the
satisfaction of all good men, that were indiffe-
rent, have found you Guilty. I have little
comfort to say any &hing to you, because I ob-
serve your obstinacy at the bar ; but it is so
generally among you all, you will confess no-
' thine to the death. ,
Green. God forbid, Sir.
Justice Wild. But though 1 am of another
persuasion than you, and know you have no
charity for me, yet I have charity for you.
And if I shall say any thing, it is out of a zeal-
cms affection I have lor your souls ; God knows
J speak it upon no other grounds ; though the
offence be horrid, yet I commiserate your per-
sons.
For the nature of your offence, it is murder :
' He that sheds man's blood, by man shall bib
blood be shed; for in the image of God
created he him.' So saith God to Noah, intimat-
ing and declaring thereby, that the intention of
God Almighty, in the making of that law, was
the preservation of mankind; and that he will
not admit or suffer his image to be defaced or
destroyed. If it shall be accounted treason
against earthly princes to deface their images,
is it not much more treason against the great
God of heaven and earth, to deface his image,
who is the ' King of kings, and Lord of lords?'
The greatness of this sin struck such a damp
and horror upon the soul of Cain, that it made
him cry out, ' His punishment was greater
than he could bear ;* or, as our bibles have it in
the margin, ' His iniquity was greater than
could be forgiven ; and it shall come to pass,
that whosoever meeteth me, shall slay me :'
being conscious to himself, that it was just and
lawful, that whosoever did meet with him
should slay him. And God himself doth set
forth the heinousness of this offence, when he
tells him, ' liis brother's blood cried to him ;'
that is, cried unto God from the earth for ven-
geance. Blood, it is of a crying nature, and
wjll never cease crying, till it nad out the man-
slayer.
It is an offence so heinous in the eye of God,
that he will* not endure it in a beast ; God
saith, be will require it of a beast. And doth
God require blood of a beast, a brutish crea-
ture void of all reason, and will be not require
it much more of man, whom he hath enaued
with those two great faculties of reason and
understanding? and certainly, if murder in
general be enquired after, I may well say this
of yours, there bath not been committed a
more impudent and barbarous murder in this
civilised nation, by one subject upon another.
And observe how you did effect this murder,
.with baseness enough. See the baseness of it;
as the devil was the father of lies, so he was a
murderer from the beginning ; aud you first
begun your murder with an hellish, studied,
and premeditated lie, Knowing that this gen-
tleman was a person very vigorous in the exe-
cution of bis place, tliat would omit no oppor-
tunity of doing his office; you pretend you
have occasion for him, and by this means draw
him into your snare ; where what you do, you
do cowardly and basely, first disarm him, then
fall upon him, and murder him ; as the pro-
phet David saith of the ungodly man, ' first
gets the righteous man in bis net, and then
ravisheth him.'
Had boch a thing as this been acted by us Pro-
testants in any Popish country in the world, I
doubt there would scarce have been one of us
left alive. They would not have takeu this
course that hath been taken with you, to admit
us to a fair trial ; no, they would have made
their own hands their avengers : but, God be
praised, we are of another religion, and of an-
other persuasion. We leave vengeance to God,
and, under him, to tjie magistrate ( who
beareih not the sword in vain,' as you now/
find.
If I could abstract folly from wickedness,
certainly it was one of the greatest pieces of
folly and sottishness iu the world ; tor what
could be your end in it ? did you think that all
the magistrates in Eogland were lodged in a\r
£. Godfrey? that, if he were taken out of the
way, there were not men of spirit and cou-
rage, as faithful and diligent as he was t
trouble not yourselves, nor let those of your
persuasion trouble themselves, there are a nu-
merous company of magistrates in this king-
dom, that will do the same thing, aud act in
it, and execute their offices with the same
courage.
And as to the manner of the murder : • whom
have you destroyed ? a magistrate. For what r
for the execution of his office. One that was
a conservator of the peace ; and whose study
it was to preserve you in peace, on him you
have violated the peace, and nothing less
would satisfy you than his precious life ; an af-
front to the law, to the magistrate, to the king*
to the nation ; yea, to God himself, upon whom
an higher affront could hardly have been just*
For the magistrate is God's ordinance ; God
bath set him up to avenge himself upon the
wicked, and to reward the good ; ' and be
dotb not bear,' as . it is a sign by you be bath
not born, ' the sword in vain.'
I might say much more concerning the bet*
nousuess of this offence ; but had I the tongue
of men and angels, I could not say enough to
set out the horror of it. And now let me tell
you, I do not speak this to insult and domineer
over you ; I praise God I am of another spirit •
he knows I have another end in what 1 sa y%
and my end is merely this, to persuade you
from the foulness of your fact, to make a good
use of it ; that the horridness of your sin may
make the greater and deeper impressions on
your spirits ; and so make your repentances
more severe and efficacious, Had you as many
years to live as you have hours, it wore Utile
enough to bewail this horrid offence. Hut on
the other side, as that will be little enough,
225] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679--/or the Murder of Sir E. Godfrey. [23fr
yet let me give you this comfort, you have time
enough, if you make a good use of it, to make
jour peace with God.
Pray let me dehort you from one thing ; and
that is this, do not be of the opinion of those
wicked miscreants the Jesuits, that have put
y*a upon this matter; for I have so much
charity for you as to believe they made it a
matter of religion to you, and justifiable upon
that account. Do not think so, for the law of
God is indispensible, and no power under hea-
ven can license to murder. So that though
the offence in them is abominable, yet in you
it is an offence too, and an horrid one. And
when you have considered it as such, I- then
desire you to take a right course to make your
peace with God : for you must pass under an*
other judgment than that of man, and that
shortly ; you must stand before the Judge of
heaven and earth. And therefore, if by this
means yon can prevent that future judgment,
you will have just cause to thank God that you
had your punishment here on earth. There-
fore let roe : id vise you to spend every minute
you have left, in a free acknowledgment of all
yovafleoces: for certainly some s>in went be*
/a*, or this had never come after. .One sin
Sop another, and makes way for the commis-
siofl of another.
And what must you rely upon ? not upon
aay trash or trumpery, not upon any merit of
your own ; there is but one Saviour and Me-
diator, the Lord Jesus' Christ. And I would
advneyou, in the words of that great Cardinal,
one that was one of the greatest men of your
religion, Bellarmine I mean, who having made
a scrutiny, which was the safest way for secur-
ing heaven, made the conclusion thus : ' To
trust only upon the Lord Jesus Christ for life
and salvation ;: which I advise you to do.
I have now. done what I intended to say to
you; and what I have said, I spoke to deliver
my own soul, and upon no other account. I
now pronounce the .judgment which the law
hath appointed to' pass upon such malefactors ;
and that is this :
44 That you go from hence to the place from
'whence you came, and from thence to the
place of execution, where you shall be seve-
rally hanged by the neck, till you are severally
dead ; and the Lord have mercy upon your
souls."
Hill. I humbly beg one favour, that I may
have the privilege to see my wife and children,
aod toy brother, before I die, sometimes,
L. C. J. God forbid else.
HUl. Any day, I hope, my lord?
L. C. J. Captain Richardson, let thern have
the liberty of seeing their friends, but do it
with care and caution.
Just. Wild. t\xid 1 wifi say this more to you,
if you will have any religious Proicstant di-
vines to come to you, they shall be sent to you,
hot none of your priests.
Hill, I desire only my relations.
Just. Wild. You shall have them, and we
offer you the others.
VOL. VII.
Green. I have no relations that are catho-
lics, but two, and they are not priests. God
bless the king : and I desire all good people to
pray for us.
L. C. J. Mr. Astry, let the rule be entreti
for their execution on Monday next.
Cl. if the CV. Captain Richardson, yott
shall have the rule for their execution on Mon-
day next.
Then the keeper carried away the prisoners
to the gaol, trf be reserved till their execution*
On Friday the 21st of February, the pri-
soners, Robert Green, Henry Berry, and Law-
rence Hill, were executed according to the
sentence pronounced against them ; tbey all
persisted to the last in denying the fact foe
which they suffered.
An Account of, together with, the Writing
itself, that was found in the pocket of
Lawrence Hill, at. the time he and
Green were executed, Friday, the 21st of
February, 1678-9, for the Murder of Sir
Edmundbury Godfrey, knt.
It is very fit the world should have some
account of what was said at the Execution of
these meu, and how they came to say what
they did. Their Confession (as it is called)
was a denial of the fact, which was penned and
prepared in a very formal mauner, and taken
out of the pocket of Hill,-who had neither pen,
ink, nor paper, all the while he was in -New-
gate ; yetf after he was dead, captain Richard-
son, the master of Newgate, saw the execu-
tioner take it out of his pocket ; which is ver-
batim, as follows :
" I now come to the fatal place where I must
end my life, and I hope with that Courage that
may become my* innocence :< I must now ap-
pear before the Great Judge, who knows all
tilings, and judges rightly ; and X Jbope it will
be happy for me, a sinner, that I am thus
ivrongfully put to death. I call God. angels,
and men, to witness, that I am wholly ignorant
of the manner, cause, or time of the death of
justice Godfrey.; although, on that account,
by the malice of wicked men, brought to this
shameful death, which, I hope, will' give me a
speedy passage to eternal life : In this hope I
die chearfully because of my innocence, and
the benefit of the precious ' wounds of my
blessed Saviour, by whose merits I hope for
salvation. I die a Roman Catholic, desiring
all such to pray for roe : Aud I beseech God,
iu his justice, to discover this horrid m order,
with the contrivers thereof, that my innocence
may appear. And though from my heart I for-
give my accusers, yet I cite all such as have
had a hand in this bloody contrivance, before
the great tribunal of God's justice, to answer
for the wrong they have done the innocent ;
and particularly the Lord Chief Justice, and
the brothers of sir Edmundbury Godfrey, wfth
jury, witnesses, and all their partaker^. O
Lord, bless and preserve his majesty, .Ad be
237] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1 679— Trial qf Green, Berry, and Hill, [228
merciful to this poor nation, and lay no inno-
cent blood to its charge. So I bid you all
farewell in Jesus Christ, into vthose hands I
commend my spirit.1*
Then turning to some of the officers, he said :
There is a report up and down, that I -have
confessed the murder of sir Edmund bury God-
frey to Dr. Lloyd ; I do deny it.
This Paper was shewn to Hill's wife ; and
she being demanded whether it was her hus-
band's hand-writing, affirmed it was not : And
being further asked, whether the conveyed it
to him, she prq tested she knew not how he
came by it ; and declared that she never saw it
before. -
Then Mr. Green said ;
* I desire all your prayers: And as for sir
Edmund bury Godfrey, I know not whether he
be dead or alive ; for in my days I never saw
him with my eyes, as I know of; and if false
feople will swear against me, I cannot help it.
pray God to bless my king, and all good
people."
Then captain Richardson told him, he had a
fair trial, and wished him not to reflect on
others, but to prepare himself for death : To
which Mr. Green replied, I -pray God Almighty
to forgive them all : I never saw sir Edmund-
bury Godfrey, to nry knowledge in my life.
Mr. Berry being a protestant of the church
of England, was reprieved till the 28th of the
tame month, in hopes he would make some
discoveries. Nevertheless, when he came to
the gallows, he absolutely denied all knowledge
or concurrence in the fact for which be died ;
as will be seen by the following Account of his
Behaviour.
A Relation of Mr. BeriCy's Behaviour and
Discourse, from seven o'clock in the
Morning, untill he was executed. . Writ-
ten so soon as I got Home*9 George
Wilson.
AYiiEir I came to him in Newgate, I found
him upon his knees, at his prayers, with Dr,
Patrick's Devotions in his hands. He toU| me
he was glad I was come, and desired my as-
sistance in prayer. After I had for some
while prayed with him, which he did very fer-
vently, I believe, for almost all the time he
wept ; we then rose up both together, and had
some little discourse. I told him, that as the
law had condemned him, so I could not but
conclude him guilty; and therefore did as-
sure him, that there. Was a strict tribunal after
this life, before which we must all appear; and
in particular for him, that there were but two
or three hours before he must suffer death, and
come to judgment ; and therefore I did desire
him, that he would reveal to me what he knew
VFrom . a MS. in the library belonging to
the * church of St. Martin's in the Fields.
of the murder of sir Edroundbury Godfrey,
that God's justice might be glorified in his
death ; and that he would not go out of the
world in his sin, un repented of; which it must
be, if he did not abhor it, and confess it. He
answered me, He knew not any thing of the
fact for which he was condemned : This was>
spoke with some asseveration. I hearing him
give this answer, asked him, what were the
particular things that were witnessed against
him, for which he was condemned ? As I did
conjecture then, I thought be seemed to be un-
willing to* speak of this matter ; nor did his
words seem to come freely from him : But he
told me, that Mr. Praunce* had accused hita
1 ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ t ■ ■
* An Account of the proceeding to sentence
against Miles Praunce, for wilful Per-
jury | who was sentenced in the court of
King's-Bencb, Westminster, upon a convic-
tion by his own confession, on the 15th of
June, 1686, in wilfully forswearing himself at
the trials of Robert Green, Lawrence Hilly
and Henry Berry, &c. in relation to the mur-
der of sir Edroundbury Godfrey.
Miles Praunce, a silversmith, having been,
the last Easter Term, arraigned upon an in-
formation of wilful perjury, exhibited against
him in the court of king's Bench, for wilfully
forswearing himself against Robert Green,
Lawrence Hill, and Henry Berry, ore. in rela-
tion to their murdering sir Edmundbury GoeV
frey ; and for which, upon his oath, &c. they
were executed for the said murder at Tyburn ;
and he confessing himself guilty of the perjury
specified in the same information, was, on Tues-
day, the 15th of this instant June, again brought
to the court of King's Bench, to receive his sen-
tence. The Court having a while considered the*
heinousness of the crime, and putting him k»
mind of it, told him, It was well he was so
sensible of his offence, it being so great a
one, as to extend to the taking away the lives
of innocent persons, which did aggravate it ;
though one that had before him been found
guilty of two notorious perjuries in that court,,
continued obstinate to the fast ; and, for aught
appears, has not hitherto shewn any remorse.
Yet seeing he (meaning the prisoner) was sen-
sible of his crime, and had confessed it, the
Court had considered his condition, and would
have some compassion on a true penitent.
The sentence of the Court was, " That be
should pay a fine of 100/. to the king : That he
should appear before each court in West*
minster-Hall, &c. with a paper upon his fore*
head, expressing his crime : That on Monday
next he should stand at Westminster in the
pillory, between the hours of 11 and 1, for the
space of an hour ; on Wednesday the like, be*
fore the Exchange ; and on the folio wring
Monday, at Charing Cross : And he was like-
wise sentenced to be whipped from Newgau
to Tyburn 1 and be to continue in prison unti
all.w^s performed."
ftraunce, upon the aforementioned exhorts*
tion, declared, /tifrt his last confession was tbi
£29] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1679.-: fa the Murder tf Sir E. Godfrey. [230
for the assisting in carrying sir Edmundbury
Godfrey, after be was murdered, into a room
in Sotoeraet- house; He said, He could not say
lie bad never been in the room Mr. Praunce
Xke of, fox he believed, one time or other,
t he bad been in all the rooms of the honse ;
bat that, to the best of his remembrance, he
had never carried, in all his life, a two- penny
weigbt into that room ; but did acknowledge
God*sjusiice in his death, for changing his re-
ligion lor interest sake. Hearing him thus po-
sitively to deny the fact, considering Dr. Lloyd
bad been with him two or three days before, I
did aot farther press him, because I came to
bun only for to assist him in prayer : And
therefore, after this little discourse, we went to
prayers again, and before we had done, the
Ordinary of Newgate came in, to whom I
gave place.
Ha began to tell Mr. Berry, that he had
found him of a more ingenuous temper than
the rest were ; and wondered who had been
tampering with him, ,to make him persist in the
denial of the murder, which if he would have
confessed, there was once hopes of a pardon ;
bat if be woald at last confess it, he would en-
deavour what he could to have hi in saved : And
told him also, that it was no argument, that
others bad foolishly thrown away their lives,
- chat therefore be must do so too : therefore, says
Mr. Ordinary, come tell me « hat is truth. Mr.
Berry answered, Yon have been very pressing
upon me ; I cannot tell what you mean (and
shewed his averse ness again to speak of the
murder.) I mean, says Mr. Ordinary, that
thou wouldst teU me what is truth ; and prithee
come tell me what is' truth ? Truth, says Berry,
is not to tell a lye ; not to speak that a man
does not know ; and this is truth. Well, days
Mr. Ordinary, come tell me what thou knowest
of the. murder, and do not damn thyself.
Says Mr. Berry, But I think you would have
sne, by your thus pressing of me ; for I did
not know any thing of it, for a fortnight after
troth ; and that he was very sensible of, and
sorry for what he had done ; upon which the
Court desired God to continue him so.
The Sentence passed, the keeper of the
Gatehouse was ordered to take back his pri-
soner, which he accordingly did, conveying
km to the Gatehouse prison, where he now
<fwt 15, 1686), remains in custody.
it was done, Mr. Ordinary then told him, be
would deceive himself if he thought that any
absolution, or any indulgence, of either priest
or pope, could save him, without true re-
pentance.' He said, he did not believe any
such thing. Mr. Ordinary perceiving that this
discourse did but disorder him, and bad put
him out of that composure and calmness he
was in before, gave it over, and went to prayers,
till the sheriff sent to him, to come away to
execution. When we were coming out of his
prison-chamber, Mr. Ordinary asked i:im, if be
should go along with him to his execution :
Mr. Berry begged heartily that he would not,
but desired ine to go along with him: Mr.
Ordinary said, It was his place, and he would
so. We both went, and got into the cart to
him, at the place of execution s When he had
prayed by himself a good while, Mr. Ordinary
desired him to confess to the people his crime,
which was seconded by others that stood by,
saying, There was no repentance without public
confession. Mr. Berry being thus pressed
again, he declared (otherwise I believe he
would not have said any thing, but have gone
out of the world without speaking one word of
his innocency, or the murder; for he seemed
to be, both before and after, when pressed
again to confess, to be averse to it) he was as
innocent as the child that is new born. Pre-
sently the sheriff stopped him from saying any
thing more, and told him, he was not to suffer
bim there to defame an honourable court, but
if be had any other thing to say, he might :
He answered, he did not blame either judge or
jury, (and bad before at first prayed, as for the
king and queen and church, so for the magis-
trates, that God would protect them in their
duty), but for his accusers, he must say they
bad done him wrong, for he was not guilty of
that for which he suffered ; but he prayed God
to forgive them, and that his death might be
the last innocent blood that might be shed in
the land ; and prayed that his might never cry
for judgment. After which, Mr. Ordinary
prayed for him, which was very uneasy to him,
and he desired him not to do it.. Then he de-
sired me to pray for him; after which,! did
not hear him say any thing, but left bim praying :
And when the cart was drawing from under
him, he lifted up his hands towards heaven, and
said, " As I am innocent, so receive my soul,
O Lord Jesus."
231] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— Trial qf Samuel Atkins, [232
248. The Trial of Mr. Samuel Atkins, at the King's-Bench, for
being accessary to the Murder of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey :
31 Carles II. a.d. 1679. %
UN Saturday the 8th of February, 1079, Mr.
Samuel Atkins was brought from Newgate to
the bar of the Court of King's- Bench at West-
minster, to be arraigned as accessary to the
murder of sir Edmundbury Godfrey, which was
, done in this manner :
Clerk qfthe Crovm. Samuel Atkins, hold up
thy hand (which he did). Thou standest indicted
by the name of Samuel Atkins, late of the pa-
rish of St. Mary le Strand, in the county of
Middlesex, gent, for that whereas on the mor-
row of the 'Purification of the blessed Virgin
Mary, before our sovereign lord the king, at
Westminster, by the oath of twelve jurois, good
and lawful men of the said county, tried, sworn,
and charged to enquire for our sovereign lurid
the king, and ike body of the said county, Ro-
bert Greeu, late of the parish aforesaid, in ibe
county aforesaid, labourer; Henry Beery, late
of- the same parish and county, labourer; Law-
fence Hill, late of the same parish and cqunty,
labourer ; Girald, late of the same parish
and county, clerk ; Dominick Kelly, late of the
Mine parish and county, clerk; and Philibert
- Vernait, late of the same parish and county, la-
bourer ; are indicted, {or that they not having
the fear of God before their eyes, but -being
moved and seduced by the instigation of the
devil, the 13th day of October, in the 30th
* year of the reigu of our sovereign lord
Charles 2, by the grace of God, of England,
Scotland, France, an'd Ireland, king, defender
of the faith, &c. at the parish of St. Mary le
Strand aforesaid, in the county of Middlesex
aforesaid, in and upon sir Edmundbury Godfrey,
int. in the peace of God, and of our said sove-
reign lord tbe king, then and there being, felo-
niously, voluntarily, and of their malice afore-
thought, did make an assault; and that he the
aforesaid Robert Green, a certain linen band-
kerchief, of the value of sixpence, about the
seek of the said sir Edmundbury Godfrey, then
aad there feloniously, voluntarily, and of his
malice aforethought, did fold and fasten ; and
that he the said Robert Green, with the hand-
kerchief aforesaid, by him the said Robert
Green on and about the neck of the said sir
Edmundbury Godfrey, in manner and form
aforesaid folded and fastened, then and there
him the said sir Edmundbury Godfrey did choak
and strangle ; of which said choak ing and
strangling of him, the said sir Edmundbury God-
frey in manner and form aforesaid, he the said
sir Edmundbury Godfrey then and .there in-
stantly died ; and that the said Henry Berry,
Lawrence Hill, Girald, Dominick Kelly,
and Philibert Vernatt, then '»nd there felonious-
ly, voluntarily, and of their malice aforethought,
were present, aiding, abetting, comforting, and
iruuutuiuiug the aforesaid Robert Green, tbe
aforesaid sir Edmundbury Godfrey, in manner
and form aforesaid, feloniously, voluntarily, and
of bis malice aforethought, to kill and murder ;
aud so they the said Robert Green, Heuiy Berry,
Lawrence Hill, — — -Girald, Dominick Kelly
and Philibert Vernatt, in manner and form
aforesaid, the aforesaid sir Edmundbury God-
frey, feloniously, wilfully, and of their malice
aforethought, did kill and muider, against the
peace of our sovereign lord the king, his crown
and dignity. And that thou the said Samuel
Atkins, at or upon the said 12th day pf Octo-
ber, and divers days aud times before, the said
Robert Green, Henry Berry, Lawrence Hill,
'Gii aid, Dominick Kelly, and Philibert Ver-
natt, the lelouy and murder aforesaid, at the pa-
rish aforesaid, in the county aforesaid, to com-
mit feloniously, « ilfully, and of thy malice afore-
thought, didst command, counsel and qbet; and
kuowiug the said Robert Green, Henry Berry^
Lawrence Hill, ■■ Girald, Dominick Kelly,
and Philibert Vernatt, the felony and murder
aforesaid, in manner and form aforesaid, feloni-
ously fo have done and committed, at or upon tbe
said 12th day of October, and divers days and
times after, at the pariih aforesaid, in the county
pfbtesiud, feloniously the said Robert Green,
Henry Beiry, Lawrence Hill, Girald, Do-
minick Kelly, and Philibert Vernatt, didst har-
bour, comfoir, and maintain, against the, peace
of our sovereign lord the king, his crown and
dignity. How sr.yest thou, Samuel Atkins, art
thou Guilty as accessary to the said felony and
murder whereof thou standest indicted, and hast
been now arraigned, or Not Guilty ?
S. Atkins. Not Guilty.
CLoftheCr. Culprit, how wilt thou be
tried? — S. Atkins. By God and my country.
CI. of the Cr. God send thee a good deli-
verance.
S. Atkins% My lord, I do humbly desire, that
tbe several e&amiuaiiuns taken concerning this
business, may at my trial be brought into the
Court.
L. C. J. (Sir William Scropgs ) This is to be
left to Mr. Attorney to do in it as he pleaseth ;
for he is to take care of the king's evidence.
S. Atkins. I only desire, my lord, that they
may be brought in. Mr. Recorder had some of
them taken before him.
Recorder (Sir George Jefferies.) To satisfy
this gentleman, my lord, whatever examinations
were taken before me shall .be brought.
L. C. J. Why, Mr, Atkins, do you know no-
thing of this business, that you are so willing to
have all the evidence brought in against you ?
Atkins. My lord, I know nothing of it at all,
L, C. J. Are you a papist, Mr. Atkins £
S. Atkins, No, my Lord, I am not,
X. C. J. Were you never one i
233] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. I679.— for the Murder of Sir E. Godfrey, [334
law, the king's Attorney General, or this inquest
now to he taken of Samuel Atkins the prisoner
at the har, his being accessary to the felony ami
murder whereof Robert Green, Henry Berry,
Lawrence Hill, and others stand indicted, and
as accessary of which said felony and murder
the said Samuel Atkim stands indicted, and
hath been arraigned, let them come forth, and
they shall be heard, for now the prisoner stands
at the bar upon his deliverance.
Att. Gen. (Sir William Jones,) My Lord, I
must inform your lordship, that there is another
Indictment against Mr. Atkins as principal,
which was preferred heretofore, but we have
since thought fit to prefer another as accessary.
Now to discharge him of the first, I desire he
may be arraigned on that before his trial.
CI. of the Ci\ I did so intend to do, Mr. At-
torney. Samuel Atkins, hold up thy hand,
(which he did). Thou standest indicted by the
name of Samuel Atkins, late of the parish 'of
St. Clements Danes, in the county of Middle-
sex, gentleman, for that thou, together with
V* elch, and T.e Faire, of the j>aid parish
sui.l county, gentlemen, not having the fear of
God before your eyes, but bcine, moved and se-
duced by the instigation of the devil, the twelfth
day of October, in the thirtieth year of the reign
of qur sovereign Lord Charles '2, by the grace
of God of England, Scotlab J, Fn.nce and Ireland
Kin*.*, defender of the faith, &c. with force and
arms at the parish aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, in and upon sir Edmundbury Godfrey, .
knight, in the peace of God and of our said so-
vereign lord the king, then and there being fe-
loniously, wilfully, miJ of your malice afore-
tf.ougl.t, did make an assault, and that th6u
the sard Samuel Atkins, a certain linen cravat,
of the value of one penny, about the neck of
the said sir E. Godfrey then and there feloni-
ously, wilfully and of thy malice aforethought,
didst fold and fasten, and that thou the said
Samuel Atkins with the said cravat, so by thee
the saiu Samuel Aihin3 about the neck of the
said .sir E. Godfrey fastened and folded as afore-
said, then and there the s;iid sir E: Godfrey, fe-
loniously, wilfully, and of thy malice afore-
thought, didst choke and strangle; of which said
choking and strangling of the said sir E. God-
frey by thee the said S.»muel Atkins, in manner
and form aforesaid done ami committed, the
said sir E. Godirey, in the parish aforesaid, in
the county cforcsai I, instantly died, and that
the aforesaid Welch, Le Faire, fe-
loniously, wilfully^ of jheir malice aforethought,
were then nnd. there present, aiding, assisting
abetting, comforting and maintaining thee the
said Samuel Atkins, the felony and murder,
aforesaid, in manner and form aforesaid, to do
and commit. And that so thou the said Samuel
S. Atkins, No, I never was one, nor I hope
shall be. When is it that your lordship
pleasetb to have me tried, for I have lain these
sixteen weeks in prison, and do earnestly desire
my trial. t
L. C. J- You shall be tried as soon as we can
when Mr, Attorney thinketh fit. We must try
the others pn Monday, and if there be time
afterwards /ou may be tried then : however,
captain Iticbardson shall have a rule to bring
yoa up then.
S. Atkins* I humbly thank your lordship.
Then be was carried back by the keeper, and
accordingly on Monday folio* ing he was brought
ap; and after the trials of Green, Berry, aud
Hill, were -over he was sent to the bar.
February 10, 1679.
L. C. J. Mr, Atkins, have you any bail ready ?
S. Atkins. No, my Lord, I am prepared for
nv trial, if your lordbhip pleasetb, but not with
Wfl.
L. C. J. Ay, bat, Mr. Atkins, it is the latter
*od of the term, and many people's livelihoods
lie at stale. We cannot lay aside all businebs
for roan.
S. Atkins. My Lord, my life lies at stake,
led J have been under severe imprisonment a
long lime. I humbly pray 1 may be 'tried ; be-
sides, I have many witnesses, who have remain^
edin town on purpose to give evidence for'me
ever since the last term. I hope my tiial will
not take up much time.
Justice Dolben. If you have so many wit-
Besses, it cannot be soon over.
5. Atkins. I have many ready, but hope I
shall have occasion to use only a few.
L. C. J. Mr. Atkins, we cannot do it, you
most be content; you shall be tried at the ses-
sions. Pray bow long is it to it ?
Recorder. It is about three weeks my Lord.
L. C. J. That indeed Mill be too lon^, but
in the mean time you shall be bailed.
S. Atkins. I submit, my Lord ; I think I
have bail here. [Mr. Atkins was here calling
his bail.]
L. C. J, Come then, nampthem.
Captain Lhyd. My Lord, 1 am a witness on
behalf of this gent'.em in, and cannot possibly
be in England a fortnight hence.
S. Atkins. My Lord, this is a captain of one
of the king's ships, und his occasions will indis-
peosibly call him away, and this is the case of
lereral others of my witnesses.
L. C. J. Well, I do not know ; if it be so,
you shall be tried to-morrow ; and so bring him
up very early, [Speaking to Captain Richard -
son.]
And so Mr. Atkins went from the bar, and
was brought up thither again on the morrow ;
being Tuesday, wheu bis trial proceeded thus :
February 11, 1679.
CI. of the Cr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crter. O Yes I Ii" any one can inform gur
Wfereign lord the king, the king'* serjeaut at
Welch and
Atkins, with the aforesaid —
Le Faire, the said twelfth day of October
at the parish aforesaid, in the count v aforesaid,
the said sir E. Godfrey, feloniously, wilfully,
and of your malice aforethought, did kill and
muider, against the peace of our sovereign lord
the king, his crown aud dignity. How ssyett
135] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1679— Trial qf Samuel Atkw, [236
found him guilty ; if Jou find him not guilty,
nor that he did fly for it, say so and do more.
and hear your evidence.
Att. Gen. My lord, I am informed by Mr.
Ward of the Crown-office, the prosecutor's
clerk, that they have not sued forth a venire
facias upon this indictment as principal; and
therefore the jury cannot inquire of that at all,
but must be discharged of it. Our writ is only
fur the Indictment for being accessary.
CI. of Cr. If you make the writ * de quibus-
1 dam feloniis et accessaries/ and seal it a-new
(which may be done presently, the seal being
it the hall), it will do -for both.
L. C. J. Do so, then Mr. Ward, that both
may be dispatched. [Which was done accord-
ingly.]
CL of Cr. Samuel Atkins, hold up thy hand
again (which he did). You of the jury, look
upon the prisoner, and hearken to bis cause.
You shall further understand, that he stands
indicted by the name of Samuel Atkins, late
of the parish of St. Mary le Strand, &c. (proof
in the first indictment mutatis mutandis) against
the peace of our sovereign, lord the king, his
crow and dignity. Upon this indictment he
bath been arraigued, and thereupon pleaded
Not Guilty, and for his trial hath put himself
upon God and his country, which country you
are. Your charge is to inquire whether he be
guilty of this felony as accessary to the said
Robert Green, &c. or not guilty. If you find
him guilty, &c. (sicut antea.) Crier make pro-
clamation.
Crier. O yes ! If any man will give evidence
on behalf of our sovereign lord the king against
Samuel Atkins, the prisoner at the bar, let
them come forth, and they shall be heard, for
tbe prisoner stands at the bar upon his deli-
verance ; and all others that are bound by re-
cognizance to give evidence against the prisoner
at the bar, let them come forth and give
their evidence, or else they forfeit their recog-
nizance.
Serjeant Stringer. May it please your lord-
ship, and you gentlemen of the jury, Samuel
Atkins the prisoner at the bar stands indicted
here of two facts by two indictments ; tbe one
as principal in this murder, the other as acces-
sary. The first of* which we shall lay aside,
and of his being the murderer give no evidence;
and so, gentlemen, you must find him not guil-
ty of that. But as to the indictment as
thou, Samuel Atkins, art thou guilty of the fe-
lony and murder whereof thou standest indicted
and hast been now arraigned, or, not Guilty ?
S. Atkins. Not Guilty.
CL of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
S. Atkins. By God and my country.
CL o/Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. Samuel Atkins, hold up thy band
(which he did). Those menthat you shall bear
called and shall personally appear, are to pass
between our sovereign lord the king, and you,
upon the trial of your life and your death. If
therefore you will challenge them, or any of
them, your time is to speak unto them as they
come to i he book to be sworn, and before they
be sworn. Call the jury, Crier, and make an
O yes.
Crier. O yes ! You good men that are im-
pannelled to inquire between our sovereign
ford the king and Samuel Atkins the prisoner
at the bar, answer to your names.
CL qf Cr. Sir John Cutler.
Crier. Vous avcz. Sir John Cutler, look upon
the prisoner. You shall well and truly try, and
true deliverance make between our sovereign
lord the king and the prisoner at tbe bar, whom
you shall have in your charge, and a true ver-
dict give according to your evidence. So help
you God. And so the rest were sworn. Tbe
names of the twelve were these : Sir John Cut-
ler, Michael Arnold, James Partridge, Thomas
Cassee, Thomas Gostwick, John Wells, Am-
brose Arnold, Rainsford Waterhoase, John
Searle, Richard Pagert, William Waite, Ar-
thur Blyth.
CLofCr. Crier, count these. Sir John
Cutler.
Crier. One, &c.
CL ofCr. Arthur Blyth.
Crier. Twelve good men and true, stand to-
gether and hear your evidence ; you that are
sworn hearken to tbe record, you that are uot
sworn stand down.
CL o/Cr. Samuel Atkins, hold up thy hand
(which be did). You that are sworn, look
upon the prisoner, and hearken to bis caase.
You shall understand that he stands indicted
by the name of Samuel Atkins, late of the
Sarish of St. Clement Dane in the county of
fiddlesex, gentleman ; for that he, together
*vitb Welsh, Le Faire, &c. (prout in
She second indictment mutatis mutandis) against
the peace of our sovereign lord the king, his
crown and dignity. Upon this Indictment he
hath been arraigned, and thereunto hath plead-
ed Not Guilty, and foi*his trial doth put him-
self upon pod and the country, which country
you are. Your charge is to enquire whether he
be guilty of this felony and murder whereof he
stands indicted, or not guilty. If you find him
guilty, you are to inquire what goods and chat-
tels, lands or tenements he had at the time of
the felony and murder committed, or at any
time since. I£ you find him not guilty, you
are to inquire whether he did fly for the same ;
and if you find that be fled for it, you are to
inquire of his goods and chattels, as if you had I privy, knowing, consulting, and abetting to xh
sary, that sets forth, that whereas Robert
Green, Henry Berry, Lawrence Hill, and
other*, on the 12th of October last, at the pa-
rish of St. Mary le Strand, in your county, did
make an assault on the person of sir Edmund-
bury Godfrey, and that Robert Green die
throw about -the neck of sir Edmund bury a
linen handkerchief, and Uvisted and folded i
about his neck, by which twisting and foldinj
the said Green aid strangle the said sir Ed
inundbury, of which strangling he instantl
died : and we say, gentlemen, that the prj
soner at the bar is indicted as one that
237] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or the Murder of Sir R Godfrey. [238
commission of this murder, and that after the
murder committed (for the acts are connected)
he did receive, harbour, comfort, and maintain
the murderers. To this he hath pleaded Not
Guilty. If we prove him guilt j, we doubt not
yoo will find bhn so.
Alt. Gen. May it please your lordship, and
you gentlemen of this jury, Mr. Atkins the
prisoner is indicted upon two indictments ; the
one is for being a principal in this murder,
bat upon that we can give no evidence, for that
was preferred before we had that full and plain
evidence, which now we have of this fact by
the testimony of Mr. Praunce. And I must
sly thus much to Mr. Atkins, that he hath
caose to bless God, that ever Mr. Praunce
xaade this discovery; for I assure you, without
that,there are those circumstances, probabilities,
and presumptions, that he might have gone in
great danger of being accounted a principal in
the murder. But now, my lord, that matter
being fully and plainly discovered by Mr.
brattice's \estimony, that no man may bear a
greater burden than be deserves, we acquit him
as to that indictment, and now charge him only
as accessary. And in that you will find the
evxfeoce to be such, as might give us just cause
to prefer the first indictment.
For, my lord, we shall make it out, that Mr.
Samuel Atkins did come to a gentleman of his
own sirname, one Mr. Charles Atkins (who I
think was' of kin to him, but whether he was,
or not, is not material), and to him he did
complain of the proceedings of sir £. Godfrey,
that he was a man too active, and that he was
in no sort to be permitted to live ; for if he
were, he would be very prejudicial to some he
was concerned for. And at the same time he
did inquire after some bold man, I think one
Child particularly, who had been with that
Charles Atkins aboard the fleet, whether he
lad behaved himself stoutly there; and finding
him to be a resolute person, he desired Mr.
Charles Atkins to send for him, and send him
to him, and be would employ him ; and after-
wards Child owned to Mr. Atkins, that he had
been there.
L. €. J. To which Mr. Atkins ? To the pri-
soner?
Alt. Gen. To Mr. Charles Atkins, who is
the witness, Samuel Atkins is the prisoner. It
was Samuel that complained to Charles of sir
E. Godfrey ; inquiring after the courage and
lesoUiuon of Child, and ordered Charles to
tend htm thither : and afterwards Child, as he
Said, went thither; and when he came back
he did discourse with Charles Atkin9, desiring
aim to join with them in the killing of a man,
and did propose a great reward to him so
to do.
This, my lord, was the discourse precedent
to the fact. But now to shew to your lordship
tad the jury, that as the prisoner Samuel At-
kins and he did design, the thing should be
done, so he did pursue that design, and beana
part in it. and was privy to it, and knew of it ;
*e shall prove, that Mr. Bedlow, when he saw
the body after it was murdered, which hap-
pened, as was proved to you yesterday, on the
19th of October last, found it removed from
the place where by the testimony of Mr.
Praunce he was first carried, into another
room, and there by the help of a dark lanthorn
several people then in the room saw him :
Amongst whom, I say, Mr. Bedlow was one;
and Mr. Praunce speaks to the same matter,
and this was on the Monday night following.
And I think we have a sufficient proof that Mr.
Samuel Atkins was one in the room, that did
see the body, and was consulting with them
how to dispose of it : For we have this proof
against him. Bedlow .finding a young man
there, whom he did not know, he went up to
him, desiring to know his name ; he tells him
who he was, one Atkins, and describes him-
self by a particular circumstance to whom he
had relation, and Mr. Bedlow will tell you so
much, that though the light was not very great,
yet it was enough to let him see the faces of
those he took notice of, and that this prisoner
was there. And if this be true, it will have the
effect of proving him guilty as accessary, either
before or after the fact.
This will be the course of our evidence, our
witnesses are not many, and therefore our
proof will not belong. We shall now call them,
and when they have done, submit it to your
lordship and the jury; and first we call Mr.
Charles Atkins,
Crier. Mr. Charles Atkins, lay your hancf
upon the book. The evidence which you shall
give for our sovereign lord the king against
Samuel Atkins, the prisoner at the bar, shall
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth ; so help yon God.
Recorder. My lord, this is Charles Atkins,
whom we desire to begin withal. It was he
that had the discourse first with Samuel Atkins
about Child, and afterwards with Child about
the murder. Pray, Sir, tell the discourse you
had with Child, and the time when.
C: Atkins. My lord, it was much about
the time that his majesty went to New-
market.
L. C. J. That was in September, I think.
C. Atkins. No, my lord, it was in the be-
ginning of October. I cannot speak to a day,
I cannot very well tell that, but it was much
about that time. I had been with sir John
Williams about the same business that I came
to speak with Mr. Atkins about (ihis gentle-
man whom I am forced to be witness against
on the king's account ; but otherwise I have a
great regard for him), and coming there I ask-
ed the porter below stairs whether Mr. Atkins
were in the house.
X. C. Jr At what house was it ?
C. Atkins. At Derby-house in Channel-row.
He said, Yes. So I went up stairs, and found
him there all alone in the study, where he ge-
nerally writes near another study, where was
the clerk that usually wrote with him, but he
was alone ; it was in the afternoon : And after
I had spoken to him, I desired him that he
239]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Samuel Atkins,
[MO
would walk out into the other room. And at
the window, which is next ' the door that is to
the office, he and I stood talking together.
After we had discoursed a little about the plot,
- he told fcie, that sir £. Godfrey had very much
injured his master ; and if he lived would be,
the ruin *f him. And thereupon I have heard
J that his master was questioned in the House of
Commons, asked him whether he were a par-
liament man, thinking that might be the occa-
sion of their questioning him : No, said he.
But then he went off from what we were then
discoursing, and he desired me to be secret,
and went on upon that account in several par-
ticulars, that I cannot now exactly remember.
And as we were talking he broke off his dis-
course short, and asked me if I knew Mr.
Child : What Child ? said I, He that I used to
meet at the Three Tobacco-Pi pes ? Said he, It
is that Child that you recommended to me :
For I had recommended such a one to him to
be purser of a ship,. by the means of one Owen.
Said he, Is he a man that is stout, or to be
trusted with a secret f Said I, As to his
valour I know nothing of it, but he has a very
good character. Then said he, When you see
him send him to my master ; but as for myself,
I desire not to have him ask for me when he
comes thither. I could not meet Child that
night, but I did the next night ; and so he said
he would go thither. And afterwards I met
him again, and he said be had been there, and
falling into discourse,, he would have engaged
me to join in the murder of a man.
L. C. J. What did Child say to you ? What
is Mr. Atkins's masters name r
C. Atkins. Mr. Pepys.
L. C. J. What Mr. Pepys of the Navy ?
C. Atkins. Yes, ray Lord.
X. C. J. Had Child been with him ?
C. Atkins. My Lord, he told me so.
L. C. J. What did he say when he came from1
Mr. Pepys?
C. Atkins. He told me nothing qf Mr.
Prpys, but he would have engaged me to join in
the murder of a man. I was then iust coming
from walking, and met him in Holborn-fields,
near the Three Tobacco- Pipes, and he desired
me to walk with him, which I was unwilling to
do. He told me he had something private to say
to me ; I told him there was a shed in the back
part of the house that was private enough ;
and thither we went ; and I sat with my back
to* the house, and J»e with his to the garden.
And as soon as tho master of the house had
brought a pot of ale, he fell into discourse, and
told me he believed, that by reason of the
necessity of my fortune, and the troubles I lay
under, and my want of money, I would under-
take a business that might relieve my wants. I
replied, any thing that was honourable 1 would
' undertake, or that became a gentleman ; but to
rob on the highway,, or any thing of that na-
ture, that was base, I would not do it. He
answered me that it was a thing of greater mo-
ment than that ; he told me it was the killing
of n man. I immediately utterly denied tojoin
7
with him in it ; he gave me eight or nine days
to consider of it, and I should have a great re-
ward, if I would join with them. I heard of
him no more for a considerable while, and thru
I met him at the Three Cans or the Six Cans,
Holborri, and renewing his discourse, he told
me, if I would not agree with them to help to
murder him, yet if I would conceal it, I should
have 100/. brought to my chamber ; but if I
did reveal it, I should not outlive it.
L. C.J. This Child said?
C. Atkins. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. Who were them were to be with
you, captain Atkins, do you know?
C. Atkins. I do not know, my Lord, he did
not tell me who they were.
L. C. J. Pray tell us again : What was the
first discourse you had with Mr. Sam. Atkins?
C. Atkins. I came to bprrow a little money
of him, and it was' at the great window in the
great room above stairs, the very window next
the office where the prisoner writes, and there
he began his discourse. We were talking of this
plot that was discovered, and something about
Coleman, but the particulars I cannot remem-
ber, and then he fell into discourse about Sir
Edmund bury Godfrey.
L. C. J. What discourse was it ?
C. Atkins. That he had injured his master,
and if he lived, he would rum him. I asked
him whether he was a member of the House of
Commons, because I knew his master had bee a
there questioned for his religion. No, said he ;
bnt then he went off from that, which he was
then talking of, which was concerning the Plot
and sir Edmund bury Godfrey, and asked, if I
knew where there was a stout man, and parti-
cularly enquired about Child, and bid me send
him to his master.
L. C. J. Did he fear Sir Edmundbury God-
frey would ruin his master, by discovering some-
thing about the Plot ?
C. Atkins. 1 understood so.
L. C. J. Why, he did not say that his master
knew of it, did he?
6. Atkins. No, not to me.
L. C. J. And" what did he talk of killing any
bo'dv?
C. Atkins. No, lie did not mention it to me.
L. C. J. Then ail that he said to you was,
that Sir Edmundbury Godfrey had very much
injured his master, and if he lived would ruin
him ; and then asked, if you knew a man
that would be stout and secret, and bid you
send him to his master, but not ask for him.
S. Atkins. Pray, Mr. Atkins, will you tell
what time that discourse was?
C. Alkhs. I cannot tell that exactly. Ii
was two days before Sir John Williams went
into the country. It was about the time o
the duchess her going beyond sea.
S. /It kins. Was there no body by when W<
had that discourse?
C. Atkins. There was another, in a stud;
hard by, I cannot tell exactly who.
5. Atkins. Do you know his name when yoi
hear it ? Was it Mr. Lewis ?
311] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.-; ft th* Murder qf Sir E. G*df,ey. [24«
C.Atkins. I think ic was so, I cannot ex-
actly telL
JL C X What day was it, as near as job
can?
C. Atkins. I cannot say what day it was.; it
was about seven or eight days in October, as 1
L. C. J. You say it was about the time of
the Duchess her going over into Holland.
C. Atkins. 1 think so. I cannot positively
SoL Gen. Had yoa any reward offered to
too f>r killing of a man?
* C. Atkins. Yes, I had by Child.
8. Atkins. By whom was the reward to be
paid?
C.Atkins. He did not fell me.
Alt. Gen. Now,Nmy lord, because it seems a
strange thing, that Mr. Atkins, who says he is
a Protestant, should be engaged in this busi-
ness, we have a witness here to prove, that he
bath been seen often at Somerset-house at
Mass, and so he is a party concerned ; for those
that are of that party, it was their interest to
cot him off. And that is this boy. [Pointing
to a bow that was then brought in.]
L.C.J. How old are you, child ?
Boy. About seventeen.
Just. Wild. Do you know what,if you swear
ssfae, will become of you?
Boy, I will not swear false. '
Jasace Wild. What, if you do swear false,
will become of yoo ?
Boy. I stall be damned.
Ait. Gen. He is a* like to speak truth as ano-
ther.
8. Atkins. What religion are you of, boy ?
Ben;. A Protestant.
8. Atkins. Do you know me ?
Boy. No.
Justice Wild. Sir, you are too bold with the
L. C. J. Swear him.
Ait. Gen. Pray hold. My Lord, this is a
ess that Mr. Ward brings from below. I
him not in my brief. I desire, before they
swear bias, that he would give an account whe-
ther ha knows the prisoner or no.
Bay. No I do not. [And so the boy was
earned off, with some expressions of Mr. A£-
taroey's displeasure to Mr* Ward for bringing
hooin.J
Recorder. Jay lord, I perceive it was a mis-
take ; k was some body else. We will pro-
ceed to other evidence.
Sol Gen. (Sir Francis Winnington.) We
have hitherto gone upon the evidence to prove
that Mr. Atkins, sought out for a stout man,
and when he had found one be thought was
sir his purpose, he bid him send him to his
aaster. This stout man, Child, would have en-
gaged the other witness in a murder ; and it is
very probable what that murder was, to wit,
the murder of sir Edmundbury Godfrey ; for
we shall prove that the prisoner was aiding
sad assisting to carry off the body. And for
we call Mr. BetJlow,
Then Mr. Bedlam was sworn.
' Recorder. Pray, sir, will you tell my lord
and the jury, whether you were in the roam
where the body lay, and in what company yoa
saw it?
Bedlam. wYour lordship had an account yes*
terrtay, how Le Faire came to acquaint me,
that such an one was murdered, and that they
intended so and so to dispose of the body.
When I came to meet him at Somerset- house,
I asked b^n who were to be concerned in car-
rying him off. He told me, it was a gentleman,
one Mr. Atkins. I thought it might have been
this gentleman [pointing to captain Atkuisj
whom I had known several years -since, and so
1 enquired no further, but remembered he told
me so ; and when 1 came into the room, there
was a great many there and some of them their
face* I did see, I asked a young gentleman
whether his name was not Atkins, and he said
Yes; then I asked htm, if he were Mr. Pepys's
clerk. He answered Yes, and added, I have
seen you often at my master's house. There
was a very little light, and the man was one I
was not acquainted with, though 1 had been
often at the house, but could never meet with
ham, and yet the roan said, ' he had seen ma
often there :' So that it is hard fir me to swear
that this is he. And now I am upon one gen-
tleman's life, I would not be guilty of a false-
hood to take away another's. I do not re-
member that he was such a person as the pri-
soner is ; as far as I can remember he had
a more manly iace than be hath, and a
beard.
L. C. J. You do well to be cautious, Mr.
Bed low.
Justice Wild. Pray, what store of people
were there ?
Bedlam. I believe there were seven or eight. ,
Some there were that 1 knew.
L C.J. Who were those?
Bedlam. Le Faire and Prauoce. I remem-
ber very well, I.asked Mr. Atkins this question,
are you Mr. Pepys's clerk ? He said yes : I
have seen you often at my roaster's house.
L. C. J. And that was all the discourse you
had with him ?
Bedlam. Yes, for I was but a very little while
there.
L. C. J. But you cannot charge the prisoner
to be him ?
Bedlam. I do think he had a more manly
face than the prisoner has, and. a beard.
L. C. J. So vou think it rather was not be,
than it was ha f
Brdfaw. I cannot say it was he? nor I could
not at first. I did not know but it might be
some one that did assume his person to put
me off.
Justice Wild: Mr. Bedlow, pray let me ask
you one question. Did you never know of any
design to murder Sir £. Godfrey, till Le Faire
spoke to you tocarryhtmoff?
Bedlom. I knew not till I saw him murdered.
They told me I should help to carry off the
R
fid] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. I6I9.— Trial qf SmrtutVAtkhs, (144
body of one that was murdered, but I could not
imagine whom.
' JuC. J. But you knew that they were to
murder a man ?
Bedlam. Yes, my lord, but I knew not whom.
Justice Wild. But you were appointed to
insinuate yourself into sir E. Godfrey *s acquain-
tance?
Bed low. Yes, my lord.
Justice Wild. And upon what errands were
you sent ?
Bedlam. To take out warrants for the peace.
Justice Wild. And did you take out any ?
Bedlow. Yes, against some persons, and
there were none such.
Recorder. Now, if your lordship pleases, I
desire Mr. Bedlow to let us know, whether he
did ask the person that said he was Mr. Atkins
any other questions?
Bedlam. No, I did not,
Recorder. How came you to ask him no
other questions, but only whether he were Mr.
Pepya's clerk ?
Bedlow. Because i never heard of any of
/ that name, but he and this gentleman [pointing
to captain Atkins], whom I know very well,
and I could not tell but it might be he.
L. C. J Here is the thing. Le Faire told
him one Atkins should help him to carry the
body off; and when became into the room,
that person told him his name was Mr. Atkins,
and then lie asked if be were Mr. Pepys's clerk
for lie could not tell but that it was Charles
Atkins.
Recorder. We have another reason, my lord,
for the asking that question. Pray what dis-
course had you about any commission ?
Bedlow. I had often been with captain Ford
at Mr. Pepys's about his commission, and I had
often desired to speak with Mr. PepysorMr.
Atkins his clerk, but I could never nod either
of tbem at home ; aud therefore when I met
that young gentleman there, I asked him whe-
ther he were Pepys's man and he said yes. I
asked him if he knew me, and he told me yes.
X had been often at his master's house wkh
captain Ford, but I lmd never seeu Mr. Atkins.
Recorder. What did he tell you besides?
Bedlow. That was all the discourse we had.
Sol. Gen. Did you ever hear of any other
Atkins that lived with Mr. Pepys ?
Bedlam. No, none at all. And the same tes-
timony I Rive now, I gave at the first. And
ray lord, I could not he positive before the
lords of the committee, and I cannot be posi-
tive now.
Att. Gen. Indeed he was never positive at
the first. Now, my lord, if you please, we will
call a witness to prove, that that day, when this
was supposed to be done, Mr. Samuel Atkins
bad bespoke a diuner at Mount Horeb, but he
had some other business, and did not come,
and lost the price of a good dinner. Pray
swear Thomas Walton, t Which was done.]
Recorder* Pray, sir, what can you say ?
Walton. As to the body of the cause, I have
netjriftg to say. I k*v* pot seen Mr. Atkins
these two years; but there having been some
friendship between us, I had a mind to see
him, and sent a particular friend to desire him
to appoint a meeting.
L.C.J. When?.
Walton. At Mount Horeb.
Att. Gen. My lord doth not ask where, but
when, at what time ?
Walton. At two of the clock.
Att, Gen. What day ?
Walton. The 12th of October.
L. C. J. How come you to remember the
day?
}Valton. I will tell you my reason, my lord.
When I heard that this gentleman was in this
unhappy affair, I said, How much better had it
been for him to have been in my company, that
I might have vouched for him? But you [point-
ing to the prisoner] did appoint, you know, sir,
to meet me. Aud I took cognizance of this
affair speaking to a particular friend.
j£. C. J. How long after this?
Walton. When the tidings were,* he was
taken prisoner.
, Att. Gen. A great while agone my lord,
X. C. J. How long after sir £. Godfrey was
murdered ?
Att. Gen. About a fortnight.
L. C. J. Was there a dinner bespoke ?
Walton. I bespoke one for bim ; he knew
nothing of it.
Att. Getu Did he appoint to be there that
day?
Walton. Yes, he did. I think he will not
deny it
Att. Gen. Did you send a messenger to ban t
Walton. Yes, I did.
Att. Gen. What answer had you ?
Walton. He brought me word, he would
come at two of the clock to me.
Att. Gen. Did you bespeak the dinner for
him, and did you pay for it ?
Walton. I never gave him any account what
was to be for dinner.
Att. Gen. But let this evidence go as far as
it will. This gentleman had a mind to meet
him ; sent a messenger to him to meet bim :
he appointed at two o'clock ; and be bespoke si
dinner for him, but be came not. Now we
use it thus. I desire to know of him, when
was the message sent ? How long before that
day? or was it the day before?
Walton. It was a week before.
Att. Gen. What day before?
Walton. It was a week before.
Att. Gen. Can you remember what day ?
Walton. I do not, for I had no dissatisfac-
tion because he did not come.
8. Atkiru. Will your lordship give me leave
to ask him one question ? I own, sir, you sent
to me by a school-fellow, about a week before,
and desired me to appoint a day to meet you,
and I appointed this day, and that for this resv-
son ; I knew my master would be then out oi
town, and so 1 thought I could conveniently
meet you; but it being ten days before, I en-
tirely forgot it ; -but can prove by several wit*
where I did dine that day, wbicb I de-
sire may be called. But now, my lord, this
gentleman is open bis oath, who is a protestant,
and was my school-master, I desire him to de-
clare whether I was bred a protestant, or no ;
and whether my friends were so or no ?
L. C. J. How was he bred, sir ?
Walton. He was bred op in the protestant
refcpon, my lord.
L. C. J. Were his father and mother pro-
testants?
Watom. Yes, my lord, they were so, and I
know them very well.
& Atkins. Pray, sir, declare whether I was
not only bred a protestant, but whether I was
not so also when I left your school ?
Walton. Yes, my lord, he was always a pro-
testant, and a very sealous one too.
L. C. J. There is very much in that.
Justice Wild. Where is this Mount Horeb?
Recorder. It is in Pudding-lane, at one Mr.
Appleby's.
L. C. J. Well, have you any thing more,
Mr. Attorney?
Alt. Gen. No, my lord, I hare no more to
say, all I near what defence the prisoner makes.
L. £ J. Then, Mr. Atkins, you bare liberty
to defend yourself.
S. Atkins. My lord, and Gentlemen of the
Jory, I hope I shall in my defence proceed
?ery inoffensively towards God and towards
this Court. First, towards God (before whom
I am, in whose presence I must appear, and
before whom I can protest my innocence as to
what is charged upon roe), in that I shall de-
clare nothing bat what is true : And towards
this Court in the next place, because I intend
to deliver myself with all the respect and sub-
mission to it that becomes a prisoner. My
lord, this gentleman, Mr. Atkins who hath
brought this accusation against me, is a man
whom I have kept from perishing, I suppose
he will own it himself; I petitioned, solicited
for him, and was instrumental in getting him
eat of prison, for a fact which I shall by and
by tell you. And though this, my lord, may
seem against me, yet by and by
L.C. J. Hold, vou mistake, Mr. Atkins, he
does you no mischief at all, for he saith no
more than that he hath been discoursing with
too about the plot, and you said sir Edmund-
bury Godfrey bad very much injured your
fluster ; and that you desired to kuow if he
were acquainted with a stout roan ; and asked
naraealarJy of Mr. Child, and bid him send
nun to your master; and be said afterwards, be
had been there, and would have engaged him
to job in a murder. All which is nothing to
the purpose.
8. Atkins. But I never had any such dis-
course with him my lord.
L. C. J. If you had,, or had not, it is no
■titer : you need not labour your defence as
to any thing be says.
8. Atkins. I protest before God Almighty,
I know nothing of it.
Justice Voftau Bat what say you to Mr.
19.-tf* thtMmrdertf Sir R Godfrey. [34ft
Bedlow's testimony; Did you see the body of
sir £. Godfrey at Somerset* House?
S, Atkins. No my lord ; I am so far from
that, that in ail my life I was never in the house.
X. C. J. Then call a couple of witnesses to
prove where yon were that Monday night, the
14th of October, and you need not trouble
yourself any farther.
S.Atkins. There is captain Vittles, and his
whole company.
L. C. J. Can any of these say where yon
were the Hth of October ? If they can, a
couple of them is enough. Who is this ?
Atkins. This is the captain, my lord.
L. C. J. What is your name ?
Capt. Vittles. My name is Vittles.
■ L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Atkins the pri-
soner ?
Vittles. Yes, very well.
L. C. J. How long have yon known him I
Vittles. These 14 years.
L. C. J. Can you tell where he was the 14th
of October ?
Vittles. I can tell by several circumstances,
that your lordship shall understand, that I do /
remember the day.
L. C. J. Why, you cannot tell what day of
the week it was ?
Vittles. Yes, I can, it was of a Monday. .
L. C. J. Where was he on a Monday ?
Vittles. The king was pleased to command
me to go to Antwerp, to carry over some offi-
cers of the king's to the garrison ; I returned
back the 6th of October, which was Sunday.
Justice Jones, How come you to remember
the days so exactly ?
L. C. J. Mariners are very exact and punc-
tual ; they keep accounts of every day, and
have journals of all passages.
Vittles. Ay, my lord, and I have it here in
my pocket : The 6th day I arrived at Green-
wich, which was sabbath day, and that day I
would not come ashore, but I let it alone
while Monday, which was the 7th day ; then
my lord I went and appeared, and gave an ac-
count to the Secretary of what I had done,
according to my instructions, to see whether he
bad any further service to command me. At
present the Secretary told me, No, ; so I told
him I would go down to the Yatch, and wait
his majesty's commands ; and there I staid till
Thursday ; and on Friday the Secretary, I
think, was going out of town to Newmarket, and
so I could receive no orders from him, but was
to stay till he came back. On the Monday fol-
lowing I came up about eleven of the clock,
and I met with Mr. Atkins at the office he had
at his master's the Secretary's; said I, I am glad
you are at home ; and, said be, I am glad you
are not gone, for there are a couple of gentle-
women that desire to see a yatch, and if you
will go down I will come, down too, and brine
down my friends by aud by : Said I, I am glad
I am in a way to serve you, and you shall be
welcome to what I have. So I disappointed
two or three friends that I had appointed to
meet at Billingsgate, that I might get my boat
247] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1070— Trial qf Samud Atkhm. [MB
ready. When I came aboard, I ordered my men
to cteau it, and I got ready some provisions,
»uch ns I had : But hi the mean time my young
lord Berkefy and his men came to see* the yatch
in the afternoon, where she lay then at Green-
wich, over against the college; and I being
glad of such a gentleman's company, entertain-
ed him with a bottle or two of wine, and what
the ship would afford, and when he went away,
I fired five guns. And when he was gone, I
was walking upon deck ; and I wonder, said I
to my men who were with me, that Mr. Atkins
doth not come ; he told me he would be here
with some friendi ; I will go a- shore if he does
not come quickly. And so, if it shall like your
honour, I stayed an hour longer ; and, said I,
if he doth not come in half an . hour, I will go
a-shore and I was ready to go, when I saw a
boat at a distance, and then said, I will stay for
I believe Chat is the boat ; and it proved so.
It w.as two of the clock when my lord went
away, and it was then half an hour past four,
or thereabouts. 80 when he came a- board his
two friends came a- board with him, and went
down hi to the cabin, 2nd drank a glass of
wme, such as we had ; and the wine being good
anc| just come from beyond seas, we drank till
seven of the clock, and I would not let them
go. ■ Then said he, I will not keep the boat
upon charge here. No, you need not, said I,
my boat shall see you a-shore. So he dischar-
ged the boat, which was, I say, about seven
o'clock, and so about eight or nine o'clock we
had drunk till we were a little warm ; and the
wine drinking pretty fresh, and being with our
friends, we did drink freely, t^ll it was indeed un-
seasonable : I must beg your lordships pardou,
but so ic was; and at half an hour past ten, I
ordered my meu to go off with the boat of four
oars, that belonged to the yatch, and that
would go much swifter than any other boats,
and I put him into the boat very much fuddled.
Now, my lord, away goes be, with four of my
* men (they are here), and I ordered them, pray,
said 1, put a-sbore Mr. Atkins and his friends
where they will go a-shore. So I went to sleep
when he was gone ; and the next day in the
morning, when the boat came aboard, said I,
where did you pot a-shore Mr. Atkins and the
two gentlewomen ? At Billingsgate, said they.
Why so, said I ? Which way would they get
home? for I knew Mr. Atkins was very much
in drink. Why, said they, the tide was so strong
at the bridge, that we could not get through
with our boat. Now it flowed that same night
till twelve minutes past ten ; so that it must
be near half an hour past ten when they went
•way.
Justice Wild, What, it flowed there at past
ten?
Tittle*. Yes, it did.
L. C. J. Mr. Bedlow, what time of the
night was it that you were at Somerset-house ?
Bedlow, It was betwixt nine and ten.
L. C. J. He was on shipboard theu.
Justice Wild. He was very sober, that you
tpokft withal, was not he ?
' Bedlam. Yes, very sober, my lord.
L. C. J. Theu call anotner witness, one el
your men, and we have done.
VittUs. Give the word for the boatswaia
Trihbett.
L. C. J. Did the women pledge you captain?
Vittles. Pledge me, my lord.
L. C. J. Ay, did they drink with you?
V U ties. Ay, and drink to us too, my lord.
£. C. J. Those be your men that sUnd there?
[He, and several other of the ship's company
were there.] Whither did you carry Mr. At- -
kins when your captain commanded you to set
him ashore ?
Tribbet't. To Billingsgate.
L. C. J. What time of night came joe
there?
Tribbett. At half past eleven.
L. C. J. What time did you carry him from
die. yatch ?
Tribbet. It was about half an hoar past ten
o'clock.
L. C. J. What day of the week was it?
Tribbett. It was on a Monday.
L. C. J. Well, yon need not trouble your-
selves any more.
Ait. Gen. My lord, in this matter, it is in
vain to contend in a fact that is plain. But I
would desire (because some perhaps will make
an ill use of it) that they would please to take
notice, here is no disproving the king's evidence*
For Mr. Bedlow did not at first, nor doth be
now, charge him directly to be the man : so
that whoever reports, That the king's evidence
is disproved, will raise a very false rumour.
L. C. J. No, no ; it is so much otherwise,
that for all he hath said herein* be is the mora>
to be credited in his testimony ; and Mr. At-
kins needed not to make any defence, but must
have come off without any, upon vt hat Mr. Bed-
low says for him.
Att. Gen, So likewise for the first man, all
that he says consists together, and may be true,
and yet Mr. Atkins innocent.
L. C. J. So it may.
Att. Gen. I desire the company may not go
away with a mistake, as if the king's evidence
were disproved.
L. C. J. Not in a tittle.
Att. Gen. Then I have done, my lord.
L. C. J. No, I will tell you how it did arise.
It arose from the jealousy of the murder of air
£. Godfrey, and persons were willing to lay
hold on any opportunity to find it out. And
Mr. Bedlow was told such a man should be br*
fellow to help him to cairy away the body; and
hearing of such a name, thought it possible it
might be such a one ; and he owning himself to
bear that name, and to be Mr. Peoys's clerk,
when he gave in his information, the people,
who were put into such alarms as these, were
very ready to catch at it* Therefore no body
was to blame for pursuing Bedlow's evidence.
He said nothing then; but what be says new,
and that is nothing at all positive, which is all
true, and yet Mr. Atkins doth appeal1 to be a
very innocent man in this matter.
3WJ
STATE TRIALS, Si Cjubus II. 1*71).— Trial of David Lam.
[250
Then the Jury consulted together at the bar,
and agreed.
CL of the Cr. Gentlemen, are you all agreed
of your ? erdict ?
Omnes. Yes.
CLofthe Cr. Who shall speak for you ?
Omnes. Our Foreman.
€7. o/fA* Cr. Samuel Atkins, hold up thy
hand. [Which he did.] Look upon him. Bow
say you; is he Guilty of the felony and murder
whereof he stands indicted, or Not Guilty?
Foreman. Not Guilty.
CI if the Cr. Did he fly for it f
Foreman. Not that we know of.
S. Atkins. God bless the king, and this ho-
nourable bench. [On his knees.]
CL of the Cr. Samuel Atkins, hold op thy
hand. [Which he did.] Look upon the prisoner.
Hew say you, h he Guilty of the felony, as ac-
cessary to the murder, as he stands indicted, or
Not Guilty?
Foreman, Not Guilty.
CL of the Cr. Did he fly for it ?
Foreman. Not that we know of.
S. Atkins. God bless the king and this bo*
noorahJe bench. [On his knees.]
CL of the Cr. Then hearken to your ver-
dict, as the Court hath recorded it. Yon say,
that Samuel Atkins is not guilty of the felony
and murder whereof he stands indicted ; nor
that be did fly fur it. And you say that he is
not guilty, as accessary to the felony and mur-
der whereof be stands indicted, nor that be did
fly for the same; and so you say all f
Omna. Yes.
X. C. J. Mr. Atkibs, I should have been
very glad that the rest, who have been con-
demned, had been as inn6cent as you are f and
I do assure you, I wish all mankind had been
innocent. For, if any Protestant had been
guilty of such a -thing as this, it would have
grieved 'me to the very, heart, that any Protest-
ant should do such things, as those priests pro-
voke their proselytes to at this day.
Capt. VittUs. My lord, here is his school-
master will give your lordship an account bow*
he was bred and brought up, and what a good
conditioned young man he was.
L. C. /. Well, well; captain, go you and
drink a bottle with him.
Then Mr. Atkins went from the bar.
249. The Trial" of David Lewis,
of Llandaff), at Monmouth
31 Charles II. a. d. 1679-
a Jesuit, (pretended Bishop
Assizes, for High Treason:
[Written by Himself.J
THE S8th of March, 1679, the assizes began
at Monmouth, sir Robert Atkins being sole
judge- A grand jury of gentlemen was re-
turned by the sheriff, and called, against several
of whom Mr. Arnold and Mr. Price excepted,
and so put by, as such tbey conceived might
befiiedti me ; a challenge not known before ;
sarin the case between che marquis of Worces-
ter, and the tenants of Wentwood, upon a riot,
Henry Williams, esq. and others would have
excepted against some of that grand-jury, the
same judge Atkins then positively said, It was
ridiculous and not usual to challenge out of a
grand-jury. At last a jury was sworn, and an
indictment drawn up against me, upon the
statute of the t7th Elia. and preferred to the
grandjury. That evening, being Friday, I was
Not guilty. The next day, about ten of the
dock in the morning, the judge came from the
N'niyrius aide, and sat at the* crown side, and
I at the same time being brought to the
bar, the crier made proclamation for silence,
that a jury for life and death might be impan-
neiled, and I made my challenges ; presently
a jury from the other bar was called, which was
not usual, and I to challenge, the judge telling
me, I might challenge without hindrance; .by
pue»s I challenged three ; but out of that
Nisi prists jnrj called to the crown bar, and
chat by Mr. Arnold's own suggestion, who had
• strong influence upon the judge as being his
Juasmao, aad sitting at his ttght hand, divers
were excepted by Mr. Arnold ; whereupon, to
make up the jury, the judge commanded the
high* sheriff to call in home, and he called many,
and of those, still Mr. Arnold excepted, as
either being of my neighbourhood, or acquaint-
ance, for there being many in the country ; the
sheriff seeing so many of his calling excepted,
he desired Mr. Arnold himself should call
whom he pleased ; whereat the judge checked
the sheriff, and he said he was saucy : at last,
with much difficulty, a jury was impanneiled, a
jury now contrived, of none but such as pleased
Mr. Arnold, principal prosecutor against me,
which was very hard, and an ignorant jury it
was withal : the jury being impanneiled, it was.
sworn, the indictment read, and witnesses
called, thus :
arraigned opon that bill, to which I pleaded , Clerk of the Assizes. David Lewis, hold op
thy hand. Here thou standest indicted of
high-treason, by the name of David Lewis; for
that thou, being a natural subject of the king
of England, hast passed beyond seas, aod hast
taken orders from the Church and See of Rome,
and hast returned back again into England,
and continued upwards of forty days, contrary1
to the statute 87 Eliz. in that case made and
provided, which by the said statute is bigb-
treasou.* What bast thou to say for thyself I
Art thou Guilty, or Not Guilty ?
Prisoner. Not Guilty.
Clerk. By whom wife thou be tryed r
Prisoner. By God and my country.
Clerk. God send thee a good deliverance, .
8M]
STATE TRIALS, siCsuiutll. 1679— Trial
Ltxou,
[850
Ckrk. Crier, call WiHiam Price, Dorothy
James, Jtfaney Trott, John James, Catharine
Thomas. He calls them, aud they all appear.
Then says the clerk to the crier, swear $em:
and he sware them all.
Judge. (Sir Robert Atkins.) William Price,
took on the prisoner, do you Know him ?
Price. Yes, my lord, I do know him.
Judge. What have yon to say of him ?
.Price. My lord, about a year and a half ago
I saw him at Mrs. Bartlet's home, at a place
called Castle-Morton in Worcestershire, and
there 1 beard him read Mass, I was at con-
fession with him, and I received the Sacrament
from him, according to that way.
Judge. Was there any altar, or any cruci-
fixes or copes?
Price, Yes, my lord, that there were.
Judge. How many times did you see him ?
Price. But that once, my lord.
Judge. Were you of that way then ?•
Price. Yes, my lord, upwards of 18 years.
Judge. What are you now ?
Price. A Protestant, my lord.
Judge. Well, Mr. Lewis, what have you to
say to this ?
Prisoner. With your lordship's leave, I will
answer all together.
Judge. Very good, you do well, it will be so
much the shorter. Dorothy James, look on the
prisoner, do you know him ?
Dorothy. Yes, my lord.
Judge. WJiat have you to say of him ?
Dorothy. My lord, 1 saw him say Mass, take
confessions, give the Sacrament, marry, chris-
ten, and heard him preach in the English and
Welch.
Judge. Were there altars and crucifixes?
Dorothy, Yes, my lord, altars, crucifixes-,
chalices, and such other things belonging to
that way.
Arnold. Did you see him give that they call
Sxtreme Unction ?
JJorothy. Yes, that I did, to my uncle, my
father's brother.
Judge. Do you know what Extreme Unc-
tion is ?
Dorothy. Yes, that, I do, it is anointing sick
people with oil, when they are dying.
Judge. It is right; that is another Sacra-
ment of their church, grounding themselves
upon these words of St. James, as 1 take it, « If
any be sick among you, let him be anointed/
Qut that was in the times of miracles only.
Arnold. Did he take upon him to free souls
from purgatory ?
Dorothy, Yes, that be did, and he had of me
eight pounds in silver, and one piece of gold, to
free my father's soul.
Prisoner. Ood is my witness, to my best
knowledge, I never had one single piece of any
money from her or her husband, upon any ac-
count whatsoever.
Judge. Have you any more to say ?
Dorothy. No, my lord. {And with that she
Uttflhed at the bar. J
Aueja^How natr, woman! do yon make a
of it ? Carry yourself more mo-
dest, lor the gentleman is for his life, and it is
no jesting matter. Well, William James, look
upon the prisoner. Do you know the prisoner?
and what have you to say of him ?
Wm. James. Yes, my lord, I do know him,
and I have seen him read Mass many times,
and take confessions, and give the Sacrament,
and christen, and marry.
Judge. Have you any more to say ?
Wm. James. No, ray lord.
Judge. Mr. Trott, what have you to say of
the prisoner? Did yon ever bear him read
Mass ? Was he reputed commonly a Jesuit, or
Popish priest ?
Trott. Yes, rov lord, he was commonly re-
puted so, and I heard him often read Mass ;
and I saw him marry Mr. Gnnter*s daughter to
Mr. Body.
Judge. Were you then of that religion ?
Trott. No, my lord, I was deluded by my
wife out of the Protestant religion, and was a
Papist during her life-time.
Judge. Are you of that religion stil! ?
Trott. No, my lord. When I saw their
wicked designs to kill my gracious king, 1 ab-
horred their traitorous proceedings, and left
them, and am now a Protestant, in which I
shall continue.
Judge. You do well.
Arnold. My lord, there is Mr. Roger Saves,
a very material witness.
Judge. Crier, swear him. Mr. Sayes, what
have you to say against the prisoner ?
Sayes. My lord, I was employed with others,
on the 16th of November last, to go and search
for biro, and we found him, and took him, with
several Popish things, which we carried away,
&c.
Judge. Did you see him at Mass ?
Sayes. No, my lord.
Judge. Then sit down. What have you to
say, John James ? What, are you dead, or
afraid to be wbipt? Look upon me, and speak
out.
John James. He married me and my wife.
Judge. Is that all yon know ? Did you aee
him at Mass ?
John James. I know no more.
Judge. Catharine Thomas, did you see him
at Mass ? Why do not you speak, woman ?
Speak, woman.
C. Thomas. Yes. I have no more to say, dc*
what you please with me.
Arnold. My lord, there is one Cornelius in
Court, I see him, wbo was clerk.
Judge. Crier, call him, swear him. Well,
Cornelius, did you ever see the prisoner at
Mass?
Cornelius. I am an ignorant fellow, I -know
not what Mass is.
Wm. James. My lord, he was his clerk. _
Cornelius. No, I was his servant.
Judge. Well, sit down. Mr. Lewis, now
what have you to say to all these witnesses, for
yourself?
Prisoner. Mylord, my Indictment was, Thavt
U3]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chailbs 1L 1679.— /or High Treason.
[954
being ft natural subject of the king of England, I
I was ordaioed beyond the seas, by ft juris-
diction derived from the See of Rome, and re-
turned hack agaio into England, &c. contrary
to the statute in that case made and provided,
27 Eli*. Under your lordship's favour, I con-
ceive that there has not been here any one wit-
neat, who hath prayed the Indictment, or any
part thereof*
Judge. What then ? Do yon eipect we shall
learch the Records at Rome, or should bring
persons to prove, that they saw you ordained
there ? No, Sir ; it is enough 'that yon have
eiercised the function of a priest, in copes and
vestments need in your church, and that you
hate read Mass, taken confessions, given abso-
lutions, married, and christened ; if all this
will not make you a priest, what will ? I bare
tried several Popish priests, but never met with
so full a proof as this now.
Prisoner. All these things supposed proved,
will not make me a priest, unless proved to be
performed by me, as one ordained beyond the
seas, by the jurisdiction derived from the See
of Borne; for the very ministry of the Church
of EarJaod take special confessions, and give
ftVnsai absolutions ; many, in case of necessity,
christen, though no priests ; and lately, the
country knows it, one, no Popish priest, so-
lemnly married a couple; neither can one
prove to have seen me read Mass, unless it be
proved first, that I was ordained beyond the
seas, by a jurisdiction derived from the See ef
Route ; for, no such ordination, no priest ;
and, no priest, no Mass.
Judge. To disprove all these witnesses, by
saying, it cannot be proved you were ordained
beyond the seas, by a jurisdiction derived from
the See of Rome, is as much as that saying,
BeHahnioe, thou lyest.
Prisoner. My lord, were it proved that I
read Mass, that were not treason in me, for 1
am informed, that it were but the forfeiture of
200 marks, by a statute of 93 Eh*.
Judge. It is true, who hears Mass, forfeits
100 marks. But he that uses to read it,commits
treason : but these are the tricks of you all,
yet all will not do : have you any thing else
to say ?
Primmer. With your lordship's leave, now I
desire to speak something to the evidence of
every particular witness.
Judge. Speak then.
Primmer. My lord, as to the first witness,
Price ; as I hope to be saved, to the best of
sbj memory, I never saw him, till this very day,
before. I never knew or heard before now of
that Mrs. Bardet, or of that place Castle Mor-
ton ; I never was in that place all my life-time;
way, I never was in Worcestershire, or in any
boose in Worcestershire, but twice, the last
time whereof was about five years ago ; and
that was hut at my inn in Worcester town,
where, with a servant, I alighted, bespoke my
tapper, went to the coffee-house, drank two
dishes of coffee, read the Gazette, returned to
*y ion again, supped, went to bed, next morn-
ing bought some few books at the stationers,
dined, took horse,returned home again c This is
all the being I ever was in Worcestershire.
Judge. Look upon him, do you know him f
Price, Yes, my lord, he is the man.
Judge. Have you any more to say ?
Prisoner. Yes, my lord. Mr. Trot was
married to a kinswoman of mine, and she was
a considerable fortune to him, which he having
spent very idly, and she dying, be went to Loo-
don, where finding au employment at Court,
and there having done some unhandsome
things, he was banished the court, and now
lives upon the charity of gentlemen and friend*
for his bread ; so that with good reason it may
be believed, it is rather poverty and hope of
gain, than any thing else, that brings bim here
to accuse me.
Judge. ' Paupertas ad turpia cogit.' Little
gentleman, [he was a dwarf,] what can you say
to this ?
Trot. My lord, I was over with the king,
and he commanded me to attend him at White*
hall on his Restoration, where I came when I
returned, and I was received into his service,
but was never banished the court, only I cam*
away upon discontent, and still I may go there
when I please : My lord, I am desirous to do my
king and country good service, hot I am in dan-
ger of my life amongst them, and must look vet
myself.
Judge. Ay, Mr. Trot, bare a care of yourself,
you do well. Mr. Lewis, have you any more to
say for yourself?
Prisoner. My lord, Dorothy James and
William James her husband, their evidence is
grounded upon plain malice, and that malice
thus grounded : They pretending I owed them
money, ihey sued me in Chancery ; but after a t
considerable charge at law, finding themselves
not like so to prevail, then they fell to threat-
ening roe, that they would have me in band,
that they would make me repent, that she
would never give over to prosecute against die,
till she had washed her hands in my heart's
blood, and made pottage of my head.
Judge. Can you prove that ?
Prisoner* Yes, my lord, that I can.
Judge. Call your witnesses then.
Prisoner. Crier, call Richard Jones, Anne
Williams, Anne James, and Cath. Cornelius.
Judge. What can you say, Richard Jones I
Richard Jones. I heard William James say,
he would make Mr. Lewis repent.
Judge. Anne Williams, what can you say ?
Anne Williams. I beard from several per*
sons, that Dorothy James said to several per*
sons, in and about Carlion, that she would wash
her hands in Mr. Lewis's blood, and that she
would have his head to make pottage of, as of a
sheep's head.
Catharine Cornelius. My lord, and I heard
the same.
Judge. Anne James, what can you say f
Anne James. I heard. Doiothy James swear,
that she would wash her hands in Mr. Lewis*!
heart's blood.
855]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chahle* IL 1679.— Trial qf David Lews,
(***
Judge. Where did you hear her say so ?
^nne James. 1 heard her say so in her
own house, at the fire-side, when I lived with
her.
Judge. Well, Mr. Lewis, all this will not do,
all will not excuse you from being a priest ; or
were you a hypocrite ?
Prisoner. My lord, I am a native of this
country.
Judge. What, of this country ?
Prisoner. Yes, my lord, of this country ; and
those years L lived in this country, I lived with
the reputation, of an honest man, amongst all
honest gentlemen and neighbours.
Judge. WeJl,,Mr. Lewis, have you any more
to say?
Prisoner. My lord, Mr. Sayes was sworn
witness against me, I desire to ask him one
question.
Judge. Do so.
Prisoner. Mr. Sayes, when you took me,
was there a justice of peace with you, at taking
•f me?
Sayes. No.
Prisoner. My lord, with this opportunity I
humbly beg leave to clear myself from a foul
aspersion, wherewith I am calumniated over
the whole nation, in a printed pamphlet, which
pamphlet I can here produce ; and wherein
there is not one line of truth. For it says at
the end of it, that I was taken by a justice of
peace and others, in a place cunnmgiy con-
trived under a clay-floor, which Mr. Sayes
knows to be untrue; and whereas it aJledges,
That I cheated a poor woman of 30/. to redeem
her father's soul out of purgatory, the pamphlet
names neither the woman, nor her husband,
nor her lather, nor the place nor time, when
nor where.
Judge. Does it not ?
Prisoner. No, my lord ; so that the whole
pamphlet is one entire lie, devised by some
Abolish malice.
Judge. Mr. Lewis, I, for my part, do not
believe it to be true. Have you any more to
say?
Prisoner. No more, my lord.
Judge. Then withdraw and repose. Gen-
tlemen of the Jury, here he stands indicted, &c.
Kud summed up the whole evidence.] If you
lieve what the witnesses swore, you must find
the prisoner Guilty of High Treason; you have
heard what was proved against him, therefore
go together.
Prisoner. My lord, before the Jury go, I
desire to speak something, which now occurs
•mo me, and is material against the evidence
of Price.
Judge. Jury, stay.
Prisoner, this very morning that Price came
to my chamber, with the gaoler (it seems it was
to view me), he took a turn about the room, all
the time eyeing me ; at his going out, he was
asked by the gaoler, whether i was the man he
meant ? and be answered, If I was he, I was
much changed, and if I was be, I had black
short curled hair.
Judge. Can you prove that?
Prisoner. Yes, my lord.
Judge. Where are your witnesses ?
Prisoner. Crier, call Elizabeth Jones anil
Charles Edwards. ,
Judge. Woman, what can you say to this t
Eliz. Jones. My lord, Price this morning,
after he had viewed the gentleman in his cham-
ber, as he was going out he said, If he be the
roan, he is much changed, and hath black
curled short hair ; which is not so.
Judge. Charles Bd wards, what can you say ?
Edwards. I beard Price say the same words
she relates.
Judge. Where is Price? Crier, call Hoi.
But he was not to be found, being gone out of
the hall. (This was the trick of Coleman, te
asperse the witnesses.)
[Here the Jury went out, and immediately
returned again.]
Clerk. Are you agreed of your verdict?
Jury. Yes.
Clerk. Who shall speak for you ?
Jury* Foreman.
Clerk. David Lewis, hold op tby band.
Do you fiud the prisoner Guilty, or Not
Guilty ?
Jury. Guilty.
Judge. Have you any more to say ?
Prisoner. No more, my lord.
Clerk. David Lewis, hold up thy hand.
Judge. Give me my cap. David Xewis,
thou shait be led from this place, to the place
from whence thou earnest, &c. [As usual in
Cases of fligh Treason.] So the Lord have
mercy on thy soul.
Then I made a bow to the Judge, and the
Court arose.
Afterwards, August 27, 1670, he was exe-
cuted according to the Sentence, at Uske in
Monmouthshire, where he spake as follows:
" Here is a numerous assembly, I see ; the
great Saviour of the world save every soul or
you all; I believe you are here met not only to>
see a fellow-native die, but also with expecta—
tion to hear a dying .fellow-native speak. If
you expected it not, at least 1 intended it, I
hope the favour will not be denied me, it being
a favour so freely granted to several late dying
persons in London itself. I shall endeavour to
speak inoffensively ; I hope the same favour
will not be denied me.
" * Let none of you suffer as a murderer or %
' thief, but if as a Christian, let him not be*
1 ashamed :' Saint Peter's words, 1 Peter iv.
15, 16. I hope by God's holy spirit now whis-
pered to my memory, and that to my abundant
consolation ; for I suffer not as a murderer,
thief, or such-like malefactor, but as a Chris-
tian, and therefore am not ashamed.
" | distinguish two sorts of life on earth, life-
moral and life-natural ; life-moral is that by
whieh we live with good repute in the esteem
of other men of integrity ; life-natural is that by
857]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chabuu II. 1G7 9. —/or High Treason.
[958
which we breathe ; in the first tort or kind, I
thank God I have suffered lately, and exceed-
ingly, when maliciously, falsely, nod most inju-
rioaaJy, I " was branded for a public cheat, in
pamphlet, in ballad, on stage, and that in the
head city of the kingdom, yea, and over the
whole nation, to Che huge and great detriment
of my good name, which I always was as ten-
der of, as the other I am now quitting.
The pampbletical story, believe my dying
words, had no truth in it, neither to substance,
nor circumstance of the thiqg ; a story so false,
that I could have easily defied the face that had
attempted to justify it to tuy lace ; so sordid a
business, a story so ridiculous, that I wonder
how any sober Christian, at least who knew
me, could as much as incline to believe so open
an improbability ; who that Protest ai it young
man there mentioned was, I' know not ; who
that Popish young woman ; n who the father
dead a year and a half before ; in what county,
what parish, were all transacted, I know nut,
none of aU these there particularized; and
when » the ace of the country at last Lent-
assizes, I vindicated my innocency herein, to
the nrts/acrion of the then Judge himself, why
appeared not there then some one to make
food the charee, and disable my defence ? But-
none of this offered ; a plain demonstration to
all candid minds, the whole was a mere fiction
of some malicious person against rae : God
Jbrghre them or him, I heartily do. How for-
ward my endeavours always have been to my
power to relieve the poor, and not directly to
defraud them, impartial neighbours that know
me can tell you ; besides this, during my nine
months imprisonment, several foul and false
aspersions were cast out against me, and that
by those unto whom, for full thirty years, I had
been charitably serviceable : God forgive them,
I heartily do. Yet notwittatanding all these
calumniations, I hope I still retain the charac-
ter of an honest man amongst gentlemen of
worth, with whom I conversed, and with all
neighbours of honesty, with and amongst whom
I lived.
And now I am parting with the other life
by which I breathe, behold that within these
£rw moments of time is to unbreathe me ; but
why thus sledged to this country Tyburn t Why
this so untimely death of mine ? Have patience,
and I'll tell vou ; not for any plotting, I assure
jou ; and wnat I shall now say, as to that, God
a my witness, I shall speak without any equi-
vocation, mental reservation, or palliation of
troth whatsoever.
Bj all that is sacred in heaven and earth,
I here solemnly protest, that I am as innocent
from any plot whatever against his majesty's
person or government, as the infant that left
the mother's womb but yesterday ; neither did
I ever hear or know any thing directly or indi-
rectly of any such plot, till public fame bad
spread it over thecountry between Michaelmas
sad All-Saints day last : This is true, as God
shall judge and save my soul; neither was
there any guilt o( any such black crime found
rou nis
in me by Mr. Oates, Mr. Bedlow, Mr. Dug-
dale and Mr. Prauuce, when by them I was
strictly examined on that point, last May, in
Newgate, London ; nay, bad I had the least
knowledge or hint of such plot, I had been as
sealbu»ly nimble in the discovery of it, as any
the most loyal subject his majesty hath in his
three kingdoms ; wherefore, w hen I am dead
and gone, if some malevolent give out, I lose
my life for plotting, by charity strive to disen-
gage him of his mistake ; do that right to my
dead ashes.
I was never taught that doctrine of king-kill*
ing; from my soul I detest and abhor it as exe-
crable and directly opposite to the principles of
the religion I profess ; what that is, you shall
know by and by ; it being the positive definition
of the council of Constance, That it is damnable
for any subject, or private person, or any sub-
jects in council joined, to murder his or their
lawful king or prince, or use any public or clan-
destine conspiration against him, though the
said king or prince were a Turk, apostate, per*
secuior, yea or a tyrant in government;. Never
tell me of Clement the murderer of Henry
the 3d of France ; never tell me of Ravilliac,
murderer of Henry the 4th of France, they did
so, hot wickedly they did so, and for k they
were punished to severity, as malefactors; and
for it, to this very day, are stigmatised by all
Roman catholics, for very miscreants, and vil-
lains. I hope you will not charge the whole
Roman catholic body with the villainies of
some few desperadoes : By that rule, all Chris-
tianity must be answerable for the treason of
Judas ; for my part, I always loved my king, I
always honoured his person, and I daily prayed
for his prosperity ; and now, with all unfeigned
cordiality, i say it, God bless my gracious Icing
and lawful prince,' Charles 2, Kiug of England,
and Prince of Wales, God bless him tempo-
rally and eternally, God preserve him from all
his real enemies, God direct him in ail his conn*
cils, that may tend to the greater glory of the
same great God ; and whatever late plot hath
been, or is, the Father of lights bring it to light,
the contrivers of it, and the actors in it, that such
may be brought to their condign punishment,
ana innocence preserved.
But why again this untimely death I My re-
ligion is the Roman catholic religion, in it I
have lived above this forty years, in it I now
die ; and so fixedly die, that if all the good
things in this world were offered rae to renounce
it, all should not move me one hair's breadth
from my Roman catholic faith; a Roman ca-
tholic I am, a Roman catholic priest I am, a
Roman catholic priest of that religious order
called the Society of Jesus I am ; and I bless
God who first called me ; and I bless the boar
in which I was ficst called both unto faith and
function.
Please now to observe, I was condemned foe
reading mass, hearing confessions, administrtag
the sacraments, anointing the sick, christening,
marryiog, preaching : As for reading the mass,
it was the old, and still is, the accustomed and
S
§59] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II 1619.— Trial of Nathanael Reading, [?C0
laudable liturgy oftfie holy church ; and all the
other acts, which are nets of religion, tending
to the worship of God ; and for this dying, I
die for religion. Moreover know,that when last
May I was in London under examination con-
cerning the plot, a prime examinant told me,
that to save my life and increase my fortunes, I
must make some discovery of the plot, or con-
form ; discover plot I could not, for I knew of
none ; conform I would not, because it was
against my conscience ; then by consequence I
must die, and so now dying, I die for conscience
and religion ; and dying upon such good scores,
as far as human frailty permits, I die with ala-
crity interior and exterior ; from the abundance
of the heart, let not only mouths, but faces also
apeak.
Here, methinks, I feel flesh and blood ready
to burst into loud cries, tooth for tooth, eye fur
eye, blood for blood, life for life ; No, crieth
holy gospel, Forgive and yon shall be forgiven ;
pray for those that persecute you ; love your
enemies; and I profess myself a child of the
gospel, and the gospel I obey.
* Whomever, present or absent, I have ever of-
fended, I humbly desire them to forgive me ;
as for my enemies, had I as many hearts as I
have fingers, with all those hearts would I for-
give my enemies, at leastwise, with all that sin-
gle heart I have, I freely forgive them all, my
fteigb hours that betrayed me, the persons that
took me, the justices that committed roe, the
witnesses that proved against me, the jury that
found me, the judge that condemned me, and
ethers whoever, that out ef malice or zeal,
covertly or openly, have been contributive to
my condemnation ; but singularly and especi-
ally, I forgive my capital persecutor, who hath
been so long thirsting after my blood ; from my
soul I forgive him, and wish his soul so well,
that were it in my power, I would seat him a
seraphim in heaven, and I pray for them in the
language of glorious St. Stephen the protomar-
tyr ; Lord, lay not this sin unto them ; or bet-
ter ye', in the style of our great master, Christ
himself, Father forgive them, they know not
what they do.
And with reason I love them also ; for though
they have done themselves a vast soul-preju-
dice, yet they have done me an incomparable
favour, which I shall eternally acknowledge;
bat chiefly I love them for his sake, who said,
Love your enemies; and in testimony of my love
I wish them, and it is the best of wishes, from
the center of my soul, I wish them a good eter-
nity. O eternity, eternity ! How momentanean -
are the glorious riches, and pleasures of this
world ! and how desirable art thou, endless
eternity !
And for my said enemies attaining thereunto
I humbly beseech God to give them the grate of
true repentance, before ihey and this world
part.
Next to my enemies, give me leav%<o lift up
my eyes, hands, and heart to heaven, and drop
some few words of advice unto, and for my
friends,as well those present as absent. Friends,
fear God, honour your king,' be Arm in your
faith, avoid mortal sin, by frequenting the sa-
craments of holy church, patiently bear your
persecutions and afflictions, forgive your ene-
mies, your sufferings are great ; I say be firm in
your faith to the end, yea, even to death, then
shall ve heap unto yourselves celestial trea-
sures in the heavenly Jerusalem, where no thief
robbeth, no moih eateth, and no rust consum-
eth ; and have that blessed saying of the bless*
ed St. Peter, prince of the apostles, always in
your memory, which I heartily recommend unto
you, viz. Let none of you suffer as a murderer
or a thief, but if as a christian let him not be
ashamed, hut glorify God in his name.
Now it is high time I make my addresses to
heaven, and supplicate the divine goodness in
rny own behalf, by sdme few short and cordial
ejaculations of prayer.
His prayers being ended, he was turned off.
S50. The Trial of Nathanael Reaping,* esq. for a Trespass and
Misdemeanor: 31 Charles II. a.d. 1679.
ON Wednesday the 16th of Apri|, J679, his
majesty's Commissioners of Oyer and Terminer
did meet at Westroinster*hall, in the court of
KingVbench, when and where the commission
was read and proclamation for attendance be-
ing made, and the grand- jury sworn, sir James
Butler, her majesty's Attorney Gemeralra»ul
chief commissioner that then appeared, gave
them- their Charge thus :
Gentlemen,
His majesty, upon the Address of the honour-
able Honso of Commons, hath been pleased to
give order for this commission of Oyer and Tcr-
* He had been secretary to MassiniteHo, at
the insurrection at Naples, aboHt thirty years
before. His name occurs at p. 1 1 ;>5, of vol. 5.
miner that hath been read, to issue out ; and
the court thereby hath authority to inquire of,
hear and determine several other offences r
yet, at this present, you shall bave no other in
charge than the particular offence recited in
(he Indictment in my hand. It is a crime of
an unusual and rare nature: the indictment is
against Nathanael Reading; it sets forth the
plot against the king, the government and the
i elision established here by law, the horrid and
pemicipus misthiefs and consequences of it r
it sets forth likewise, that several persona, (anol
names them) as Coleman, Ireland and Grove,
were tried, condemned, and executed for the
same: that several lords in the Tower do
stand impeached in parliament of the said high*
treason, and- other higli-ciimcs and
261] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or a Trespass and Misdemeanor. [263
meanors ; and this was well known to Mr.
Reading, and that notwithstanding he hath so
misbehaved himself, in endeavouring to lessen
and stifle (as much as in him lay) the kind's evi-
dence, that if it had not been happily prevented
might have been of most mischievous conse-
quence. I shall not take upon me to recite
the whole indictment to you,, being very long,
and not seeu or perused by me till uuw ; but
you shall have the same along with you, it shall
be read to voa. Your duty is, to examine and
consider or the evidence to be offered you, on
the behalf of the king, for the proof of the
charge against the offender: if you find it
amount to a proof of what is laid therein, nay,
I most tell you, if you have but probable evi-
dence, you ought to find the bill, because your
presentment and verdict is not a convicrion,
but in the nature of an accusation, in order to
anng the prisoner to a fair trial : and if you do
not find the bill, he shall neier be brought to
his trial; but if you (having probable evidence)
fcrtdit, be shall receive his trial I >y the petty
jury ; arid upon the merits, be either acquitted
or coaricted. This is as much as I think is fit
for me to say to you at this time, upon this oc-
casion. You mar please to go together, and
Uke the witnesses along with you.
[Then the Witnesses were sworn, and the
Grand-Jury withdrew, and after the space of
about half an hoar, returned, finding it BHla-
Vera. After which the court adjourned to
Thursday, the 24th day of April, at eight o'clock
m the morning, in the same place.]
On which day the Commissioners here-under-
named being met, viz. sir Francis North, kt. L.
C. Justice of his majesty's court of common-
pleas, William Mountague, esq. L. C. Baron of
his majesty's court of exchequer, sir William
Wylde, kt. and bart, one of his majesty's jus-
tices of the king's- bench, sir Hugh Wyndham,
kt. one of his majesty's justices of the common-
pleas, sir Robert Atkins, kt. of the Bath, ano-
ther of the justices of the common pleas, sir
Edward Thurland, kt. one of the barons of the
Exchequer, Vere' Bertie, . esq. another of the
justices of the common -pleas, sir Thomas Jones
kt. another of the justices of the king's-bench,
sir Francis Brampston, kt. another of the
barons of the exchequer, sir William Dolben
kt. another of the justices of the king's-bench,
sir William Jones, kt. bis majesty's Attorney
General, sir James Butler, kt. one of the King's
Council, and the queen's Attorney, sir Philip
Mathews, bart, sir Thomas Orby, kt. and bart,
sir Thomas Bype, kt. sir William Bowles, kt.
sir Thomas Stringer, serjeaut at law, sir Charles
Pitfield,' kt. Thomas Robinson, Humphrey
Wyrley, Thomas Haryot, and Richard Gower,
esquires.
Proclamation was made for attendance, and
the Grand Inquest being called, Sir Francis
North, Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas,
(the Lord Chief Justice being out of town)
spoke to them thas :
Lord Chirf Justice, You of the Grand Jury,
This session is upon a particular occasion, and
.that which lay upon you was to find the bill,;
and that you have dime, and we do not see any
thing further for you to do, and therefore the
court discharges you from any further attend*
ance this session.
«
[Then Mr. Reading was sent for, and brought
to the bar by captain Richardsou, keeper of
Newgate; and silence being proclaimed, live
Clerk of the Crown read the Indictment to him.]
CI. of the Cr. Mr. Reading, hearken to your
Indictment.
" You stand indicted by the name of Natha-
nael Reading, late of the parish of St. Margaret,
Westminster, in the county of Middlesex, esq..
That whereas Edward Coleman, William Ire-
land, and John Grove, and other (unknown)
false traitors against our most serene lord kins;
Charles 2, the 24th day of April, iu the 30th
year of his reign, at the parish of St. Margaret's.
Westminster, in the county of Middlesex, had
traitorously, among themselves, conspired, con*
suited, and agreed, our said most serene lord!
the king to bring and put to death and final de*
st ruction ; and to move war against him our.
lord the king, within this realm of England, ano^
the religion in the same kingdom rightly and by
the laws of the same realm established to change
and alter to the superstition of the Romish
church, and the goverament of the same king-*
dom to subvert; fur which certain most wicked
treasons, and traitorous conspiracies, consult**
tions, and agreements aforesaid, they, the said
Coleman, Ireland, and Grove, in due manner,
and according to the laws of this kingdom of
England afterwards were attainted, and had
therefore undergone the pains of death: and
whereas William earl of Powis, William viscount
Stafford, John lord Bellasis, Henry lord Arun-
del of Warder, William lord Petre, and sir
Henry Tichburn, bart. the 30th day of Novem-r
ber in the above said 30th year of the reign of
our said lord the king, at the said parish of St*
Margaret's Westminster, in the county afore-
said, were of the aforesaid treasons in a lawful
manner accused, and thereupon, according to
the due form of law, to the Tower of London,
(being the prison of our said lord the king) were,
committed, there safely to be kept, to answer
the aforesaid treasons, whereof the same Wil-
liam earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford,,
John lord Bellasis, Henry lord Arundel, and!
William lord Petre in parliament, by the Com-*
mons in the same parliament assembled, are im-
peached : But you the said Nathanael Readings
the aforesaid premises sufficiently knowing, and
being devilishly affected against our most sen
rene lord the kiiig, your supreme and natural
lord, and devising, and with all your might in*
tending, to disturb the peace and common tran-
quillity of this realm, and the government of
the same kingdom, and the sincere religion of
God in the same, rightly and by the laws of the
said realm established, at your will and pleasure
to change and alter ; and the state of this king-
$63] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chakles II. 1679.— Trial of Nathanael Reading, [2&4
dom, through all its parts well instituted and
ordained, wholly to subvert; and to obstruct,
hinder and stifle the discovery of the said trea-
son, and as much as in you lay, the due course
of law in that part to shift off, aud retard ia the
prosecution of justice against the said William
earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford, Wil-
liam lord Petre, and sir Henry Tichburn : You,
the said Nathanael Reading, the 29th day of
March, in the 31st year of our said lord the
king, at the said parish of St. Margaret's West-
minster, in the coumy aforesaid, on the part of
the aforesaid William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, William lord Petre, and sir
Henry Tichburn, falsely, advisedly, corruptly,
and against the duty of your allegiance, did un-
lawfully solicit, suborn, and endeavour to per-
suade, one William Bed low, (who, on the 29th
day of March, in the said 31st year, in due
manner did give information of the said trea-
sons ; and whom you, the said Reading, the
day and year last above said, did well know
the information of the said treasons as afore-
said to have given, on the part of our lord the
king) upon the trial of the aforesaid William
earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford, Wil-
liam lord Petre, and sir Henry Tichburn, for the
treasons aforesaid, to be had, to lessen and
stifle, and to omit to give in evidence the full
truth", according to his knowledge, of the afore-
said treasons, against them, the said William
earl qf Powis, William viscount Stafford, Wil-
liam lord Petre, and sir Henry Tichburn, and
to give such evidence, as you, the said Natha-
nael Reading, should direct; And you, the said
Nathanael Reading, sooner and more effectually
to persuade the aforesaid William Bedlow to
lessen and stifle, and to omit to give in evidence
the full truth, according to nis knowledge,
against the said William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, William lord Petre, and sir
Henry Tichburn, upon their trials, and to give
socji evidence as you, the aforesaid Nathanael
Beading, would direct : You, the said Natha-
nael Reading, afterwards, on the said 29th day
of March, in the 31 st year abovesaid, at the
aforesaid parish of St. Margaret's Westminster,
m the, said county, falsely, advisedly, corruptly,
•od against the duty of your allegiance, unJaw-
ftlly did give to the same William Bedlow, fifty-
six pieces of coined gold of this kingdom, called
guineas : and also falsely, advisejily, corruptly,
nnlawfolly; and against the duty of your alle-
giance, the day and year abovesaid, at the
•foresaid parish of St. Margaret's Westminster,
in the said county of Middlesex, did promise to
the said Bedlow, that he, the said Bedlow,
within a certain time, by you, the aforesaid Na-
thanael Reading, to the said Bedlow proposed,
should have and receive divers other great sums
of money, and other great rewards, for lessen-
ing and stifling, and omitting to give in evidence
the full truth, according to his knowledge, of
the aforesaid treasons against the said William
earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford,' Wil-
liam lord Perre, and sir Henry Tichburn, and
far giriog such evidence! as you, the said Na-
thanael Reading, to the said William Bedlow
should direct, to the great hindrance, obstruc-
tion, and suppression of justice, in manifest
contempt of the laws of this realm, to the evil
and pernicious example of all others in the like
case offending; and against the peace of our
lord the king, his crown and dignity, osc."
How say you, Mr. Reading, art thou Guilty
of this trespass and misdemeanor, or Not Guilty ?
Reading. Not Guilty, in, thought, word, or
deed.
L. C. J. Not Guilty, is your plea ?
Reading. Yes, my lord.
*CL of the Cr. drier, make proclamation.
You good men of this county of Middlesex,
summoned to appear here this day, to try the
issue joined between our sovereign lord the
king, and Nathanael Reading, answer to your
names, and save your issues.
[Then the pannel was called over, and Pro-
clamation for information in usual form waa
made.]
CL of the Cr. Mr. Reading, look to your
challenges. Will your lordship please to have
Sir John Cutler to he foremau?
L. C. J. Yes.
Reading. My Lord, I have a very great bo*
nour for this worthy person, Sir John Cut*
ler ; be is in commission of the peace, I do
therefore humbly desire he may he excused eft
this time.
L. C. J. Mr. Reading, you cannot challenge
him peremptorily in this case, it not being for
your life ; and therefore you must shew cause
if you have any. He is not in this Commis-
sion at all ; and for his being in the Commis-
sion of the Peace, that signifies nothing, for
we oftentimes in the circuits take them off
the Bench to be Jurymen ; but if you can
shew any cause of challenge, it must be al-
lowed you.
Reading. My Lord, I look upon "myself in-
dicted for Treason ; (I desire God to give ma
strength, and I am sure of your lordship's pa-
tience) and I look upon the Indictment which
bath been read to me, and upon which I have
been arraigned, to be expressly treason ; and
I do humbly pray your lordshTpV judgment ia
it, whether it be so or not : For, my Lord, (it
your lordship please) if it be so, as I understand
my own inuocency, so your lordship under-
stands my charge better than I do. And God
knows I have neither strength of bodv, nor
presence of mind to manage my own defence $
but my happiness is, that I am alive at this
day, and am to be tried here before so honoura-
ble a bench. My lord, I have not had the ad-
vantage of any council to assist me, nor t^e
benefit of any common friend, no, not my wife
to come to me. I have not been able to help
myself through the great indisposition which X
have heen under, reduced to it by that
barbarous and illegal usage which I have
had : For (my lord) I hope I may say I ana
the first Englishman that in my circumstan-
oes hath ever been used as I have been ;
465} STATE TRIALS, SIChakusII. 1679.— fa a Tnxpan and Misdemeanor. [366
and my hopes are, whatsoever becomes of
me (the Lord's will be done,) I shall be the
last that ever shall be so used. My Lord, upon
the weakness of my own apprehension, I do
take it, that it is as high treason, nay a greater
treason, and that in the words of the indict-
ment, than erer Mr. Coleman, or dny of the
others that have been executed, died for ; or
the Lords now in the Tower stand charged
with ; and therefore, my lord, I pray your di-
rection in it, if it is but a misdemeanor (for
truly what the crime is I fcnow not ;) but in
construction of law, admitting the indictment
tree, the whole dees contain in.it the blackest
treason that ever villain was guilty of. If it is
so io your lordship's judgment, whatever should
become of it now, I may be indicted for it
again ; and should this indictment be found
upon me, I an as certainly in the eye of the
law a dead man, as through the mercy of God
1 an now alirc : and (my lord) if it be so, I
deiire your lordship's judgment whether I may
not be allowed a peremptory challenge.
L. C. J. Mr. Reading, you speak in due
time, for its pertinent to the matter of peremp-
tory challenge, to consider whether this be an
imnennent of treason? for if it be, the law
dues allow in favour of your life a peremptory
challenge to such a number ; and I will tell
you, your apprehensions have something in
them; That the fact as it is laid in the indict-
ment, might bave been laid so as to have made
an indictment of treason ; and if you are guilty
•f this fact, and not indicted for treason, but
only for a misdemeanor, it is. favour to you, and
that orHvhich you cannot take advantage or
complain of. VU now. shew you that this in-
dictment is not an indictment of treason, nor
can the judgment of treason be given upon you
for it ; and so thereby your life is not in danger.
First, here is not tbe word proditorie, which is
necessarily in all indictments of treason: next
too must observe that all treasons are expressly
particularized in the statute of 95 Ed. 3. And
! nothing is treason but what is contained in
that act, as compassing the death of the king,
levying war against the king, ami other facts
mentioned in that statute. Now ifthis fact bad
been here laid as an overt-act for the evidenc-
ing of the imagination of your heart in com-
passing tbe death of the king, and the destruc-
tion of the realm, there it had been an indict-
of treason : but being there is no treason
formally, laid, nor the word (Proditorie) which
is necessary in all indictments of treason, 'tis
only a misdemeanor you stand charged with ;
winch I must tell you is great ease and favour
to yon in soch circumstances as we are now ;
tad if it be so, you must shew cause if you
challenge any juror.
Reading. If I may (with your lordship's fa-
vour) I am very highly disposed for the taking
of tbe least favours that can be shewed roe,
with the deepest acknowledgment that an in-
nocent mao and one in distress can make : but
(my lord) among tbe greatest of misfortunes,
this I own as my bappioess, that I am now on
my trial before your lordship. Bnt pray (my
lord) may not i (having this favour shewed to
me, and should it be only fonnd a misdemea-
nor) afterwards be indicted for treason ? And
pray (my lord) does there want any one cir-
cumstance of the formality of an indictraeot
for treason in this against me, but that one of
Proditorie?
L. C, J. No, it is not laid that you did com*
pass the death of the king.
Reading, Then (with your lordship's pardon)
I do not understand it: for the indictment
does set forth, * That Coleman and others did
conspire the death of the king, levying* war,
tbe altering of religion and subversion of the
government; for which they justly suffered
death/ And further, as to the several lords in
the indictment mentioned, they are accused for
the same treason ; ' And justly, and according
to law sent to the Tower, to answer what they
stand justly impeached of by tbe Commons \f
And it sets forth further; that. I pr&vnissa pr«-
dicta satis sciens, did so and so : were there no
other expression, that my lord, is expres%ly>
treason, or no doubt misprision of treason ; for,
my lord, it does charge me that I am satis sciens
particularly, sufficiently well apprized of those
treasons they were- executed for, these accused.
And that I did not this out of the weakness of
my own apprehension, but falsly, advisedly and
maliciously. My happiness is, I shall have
your great judgments to determine this matter
for me.
L. C. J. Mr. Readirg, you exercise great
elocution and eloquence ; but if I do appre-
hend you aright, what you say is this : That the-
Indictment sets forth, that -you satis sciens of
those treasons did so and so, which will amount
to a misprision of Treason. I must tell you,,
there is a difference between tbe knowledge of
a treason that is secret, for the concealing of.
that, and endeavouring to stifle the evidence, is
misprision of treason; but the knowing of v
treason that is revealed and discovered is know-
ing no more thnn all tbe world knows; and not
laid as a fault, but to aggravate the fault after*-
words charged. This discourse is nothing to
tbe matter; if you would have our opinion,
whether you may afterwards be questioned for
Treason, it is that we are not to give you ; an-
swer the Indictment as now it is: Yon have
favour enough that it is laid this way, and not
the other. An Indictment of Treason or Mis*
prision must not be laid so as that the crime
must be collected out of the Matter of Fact
only, but it must be formally laid. . How you
shall be prosecuted hereafter, must depend
upon the justice of the kingdom. We sit hero
now to determine upou what matter lies before
us, and so we cannot grant you a peremptory
challenge in this case, which is only allowed in
matters capital in favour of life.
Reading. My lord, I do desire to know whe- '
ther this be treason or no, ' That being devil-
ishly affected to the king my supreme and na-
tural lord, and intending to levy war in the »
kingdom, and to change the government, and
1
£67] STATE TRIALS, S I Charles IL IC79. — Trial of Nathcmatl Reading, [2GS
to alter the religion, and subvert the peace of
England ;v whether that be not treason P
L. C. J. Mr. Heading, We will answer none
of those quest ions : But this I will say to you,
no judgment of treason can be given upon you
upon this indictment; and though these acts
(if formally laid) might have been treason, yet
it not being so, we must proceed as it lies be-
fore us: And therefore jt you have any par-
ticular cause to challenge sir John Cutler, shew
it, and we will bear you.
Reading. My lord, I have this cause, I have
been but a little fime acquainted with this wor-
thy gtatteinan ; but, my lord, I have seen him
in company with Mr. Bedlow, mine accuser, I
know there is not a common intimacy and
friendship between them: I am very certain,
my lord, that sir John hath too much honour
to do me wrong ; but I do humbly desire that
he may have his ease, and be excused at this
time: not that I do distrust his justice, but for
the reasons I have humbly offered.
L.C.J. Look you, Mr. Reading, your ac-
cusers are witnesses for the king, and are, nei-
ther to gum nor lose by your trial ; and there-
fore cannot be presumed to make any party for
your conviction. And do you challenge a
juryman br cause he is supposed to know some-
thing of the matter? For that reason the juries
are called from the neighbourhood, because
thry should not be wholly strangers to the fact.
If you can shew that he hath already given his
verdict by his discourse, and tha: you are al-
ready condemned in his opinion, that may be
some cause of challenge; but that he hath dis-
coursed with neighbours as others do, it may
be he btlieies it, and may be he does not believe
it, he is now to give his verdict upon what he
hears upon oath.
Rradiii". My lord, I am very glad to see sir
John Cutler here, for I did intend to have his
evidence for me.
L. C. J. That you may have, though he be
tworn.
Then the Jury were sworn, and their names
were as folio weth, viz. Sir John Cutler, Joshua
Galliard, Edward Wilford, Thomas Henslow,
Thomas Earsby, John Erie, Thomas Casse,
Rains ford Waterhouse, Matthew Bateman,
Walter Moyle, Richard Paget, and John
Huynes, Esquires.
L. C. J. If sir John Cutler desires pen, ink
and paper, or any other convenience, let him
bave it.
C4. of the Cr. Gentlemen of the jury, hearken
to the indictment. He stands indicted by the
name of Nathanael Reading
L. C. J. You need not open the Indictment,
let the counsel do that.
_ »
Then Edward Ward, Esq. being of Counsel
for the King in this Cause, opened the Indict-
ment
May it please your lordship, and you gentle-
men of this jury, Nathaniel Reading," esq. stands
iddkte4 for this offence ; That whereas Ed ward
7
Coleman, William Ireland, and John Grove,
and other unknown persons, (traitors against
our sovereign lord the king) the 24th day of
April, in the 30th year of the king, did traitor-
ously contrive the king's death, tbe subversion
of the government of the kingdom, and the re-
ligion in the same kingdom by law established,
to alter and change to the superstition of the
Romish Church ; for which treasons they have
been in due manner attainted and executed :
And it farther lays, That whereas William earl
of Powis, William lord viscount Stafford, John
lord Bellasis, Henry lord Arnndel of Wardour,
William lord Petre, and sir Henry Titchburn,
baronet, wore the 30th of November last, in a
lawful manner, accused of those Treasons, and
for them committed to the Tower ; and thereof
the said Lords were and stand impeached by
the Commons in parliament: The said Mr,
Reading weM knowing of these things, and
being devilishly affected to the king, his supreme
and natural lord, and devising to disturb the
peace of the kingdom, and the government and
religion thereof rightly established, to change
und alter : the state of tbe kingdom well insti-
tuted, to subvert; and to obstruct and sti6e the
discovery of these treasons, and as much as in
him lay to shift off and retard the course of
law and prosccuti >n of justice against the said
lord Powis, 1. -d Stafford, lord Petre, and sir
llenrv Titchl :n ; the said Mr, Reading, the
?9tn • ;* Mar ii ia.t past, at St. Margaret's
Wea.Tnns tr. •>:» the part of these three last
mentioned .'o<u^, :i:..l sir Henry Titchburn, did
fa.selv, corrupt. y, advisedly, and against his al-
legiance, unlnwfuKy solicit, suborn, and endea-
vour to persuade one Mr. William Bedlow (who
before had given information of these Treasons
against the said persons, and whom Mr. Read*
ing knew so to have done) to lessen, stifle, and
omit to give in evidence the full truth accord-
ing to his knowledge of the said Treasons against?
the said three lords, and sir Henry Titchburn,
upon their trial to be had, and to give men evi-
dence as he the said Mr. Reading should direct ;•
and to that purpose, falsly, corruptly, advisedly,
and against the duty of his allegiance, unlaw-
fully did give to Mr. Bedlow 56 guineas, and
promised him, that within a certain time (by
the said Reading proposed) hcshould have and
receive divers other great sums of money anri
rewards, for lessening, stifling, nod omitting to
give in evidence the full truth, according to his
knowledge of those treasons, against the said
three Lords and sir Henry Titchburn ; and for
giving such evidence as he should direct : And
this is laid to be to the hinderance and suppres-
sion of justice, in manifest contempt of the
laws of this realm, to the evil example of other*
in the like case offending, and against the
peace of our lord the king, his crown and dig-
nity. To this Indictment Mr. Reading hath
pleaded Not Guilty. If we prove the offences
aforesaid against him, we doubt not but you will'
find him Guilty.
Sir Crested Levinz one of the King's Learn-
ed Codnsel in the-Law, thus opened tUe charge.
2G9] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. \6:9.— for a Trapass and Misdsnu*uor. [970
May it please jour lordships, and you gen-
tlemen of the jury, lam of counsel for the king
io this case : gentlemen, this indictment is not
an indictment of high-treason, nor of mispri-
sion of treason ; and truly the gentleman at
the bar hath something wond e rd at the king's
lenity to him ; the fact in the indictment does
indeed sound of another nature, tbarr .what it
bears the name of; it does in this indictment
carry the most moderate character that the
fact will bear : it is only an indictment of tres-
pass and misdemeanor, but it is a very high
misdemeanor; it is to stifle the king's evi-
dence, and that not in an ordinary case, hut
where it is attended with the greatest aggrava-
tions tbat can be in any case whatsoever. If
a man should endeavour to stifle -the evidence
hi an action betwixt party and party, in the
courts of Westminster-hall, for a business of
about 40s. those courts of justice would find a
ready way to punish him. This is a crime of
another nature, for it is set forth in the indict-
ment, that Coleman, Ireland, and Grove had a
traitorous design in hand, for the which they
were executed, that is, the Plot ; and when I
bare said that, I have said all, that implies all ;
ypo all know what was thereby designed. It
is set forth in the indictment, that such lords,
and s.t Henry Titchburn, were privy to the
Vlot, and accused for it, and to prevent the
evidence to be given against these lords, three
•f tbetn, (for the bargain was only made for
three, viz. my lord Stafford, my lord Powis,
and my lord Petre; the rest were nut of the
bargain, and bad not, it seems, found out the
way of commerce now used by these persons;
was this gentleman, Mr. Reading's business.
It was to diminish and lessen the evidence that
was to be given against them, who were
charged and accused to be as highly guilty of
Use Plot as any that were executed for it.
And when I have told you this, you will surely
conclude it is an high offence, and an lii^h
misdemeanor : for if the life of the king, if the
law of the land, if the religion established, if
the settled government be valuable; if your
own lives, your own liberties, and your own
fortunes, have any consideration with you, this
is a very high misdemeanor; for you must
look upon these as all at stake : this plot, as it
was laid, did reach to all : so that an endea-
vour to conceal the evidence that should dis-
cover, and thereby prevent the execution of so
horrid a conspiracy, is a very heinous misde-
meanor; and you will easily believe, that the
gentleman at the bar, the prisoner whom you
ar* to try, had reason to doubt within himself,
*■/ it should he called so small an offence as
uhigh misdemeanor: but I will not, I need
aocaarmvafe this offence, *nd the rather he-
-weThe gentleman that stands accused for it,
fir c »«v*n (for which I am sorrv) which
Vs i»m to know own crime j w;ii ^^
WINM of "»oor tell you what tbe wi,_
Vn the tnden «f », rB,ber you should have
fqrmed, you will have tbe matter fully proved ;
and therefore we wiij call the witnesses, an j
let them tell you what it is they have to say.
Mr. Ward. There are some things laid in
this indictment, that are to be previously
proved, in order to the charging of the pri-
soner ; as tbe execution of Coleman, and the
rest; and the impeachment of the lords. If
Mr. Reading stands upon it, we have those,
here that will prove it.
L. C. J. Mr. Reading, those public pas-
sages that are laid in the preamble of the In-
dictment, do you insist they should be proved
first?
Reading. My lord, I am very willing to save
your lordship's time.
L. C. J. Do you admit that Coleman and
Ireland, &c. were executed for treason ?
Reading. Yes, my lord, and very justly.
L. C. J. Do you admit that the lords in the
Tower, are accused and impeached in parlia-
ment for this Plot?
Reading. Yes, my lord, I do.
X. C. J. Then you ease them of the read-
ingthose records.
Heading. And, my lord, I do further say, I
.do verily believe there never was a greater
plot laiof in hell than this. I have abhorred it
in my thoughts, and have not only endea-
voured to encourage the discovery, but always
gave it as my counsel, that nothing that was
true should be left out in the evidence. And
I do, and will, save your lordship's time as
much I can.
Sir O. Levin z. Then, if your lordship
please, we will call bur witnesses, and prove
the fact; and if there be any tiring that Mr.
Reading doubts of, we will prove it afterwards.
Swear Mr. Bedlow. Which was done.
Mr. Ward, Mr. Bedlow, I shall only ask
you the general question. Will you he pleased
to tell my lords and the jury, what you know
of this business? tell the whole story, what
discourse and bargainings there have been be-
tween you and Mr. Reading, for the diminish-
ing and lessening of your evidence.
Bedlow. My lord, Mr. Reading was alto-
gether a stranger to me, till sir Trevor Wil-
liams brought me acquainted with bim; he
was always very just to me in whatsoever he
did for me, and wherein he was employed by
me. I found him very honest, in reference to
my own concerns. And though Mr. iteading
will bring a great many people, perhaps, that
he hath pressed me to discover the whole of
the Plot; I do confess, he did it in a very
high measure in all public company, and that
I would not be baulked in any point : and for
the discovery and convicting, and executing,
of those that had died about this Plot, he
never denied but they suffered justly and law-
fully enough; but in private counsels where
we have been together, lie hath spoken to me
to he cautious, indeed he hath never endea-
voured to have me stifle the whole Plot, hut
only for some particular people that he solicited
for ; not but that he believed them guilty, as
271] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679— Trial qfNaihanad Reading [278
well as ihe rest; but be desired me that I
would not be so hot against them. And after
he had made me easy, (that was his word that
he himself used) he would have had roe made
Mr. Dugdale easy too. At several times, when
we have been together, his very expressions
have been to me, Mr. Bedlow, Though there
has been so damned a design on foot, and so
terrible a one, yet it is not for your safety nor
credit to run at the whole herd of men : For I
was this day, or yesterday, he said, with my
lord chief justice, and he told me, That at this
rate that Mr. Bedlow accuses men, none are
safe, for he runs at the whole herd ; and seemed
to me to intimate, that my lord chief justice
was not pleased with my forwardness. And
he told me likewise, You gain your point
with the parliament, and with the king, and
with the kingdom, if some suffer, as I believe
you can do it, and not run at the whole
herd; and it re an indifferent thing to you,
so you make the parliament your friend, by
proving there is a Plot, and the king your
friend, in not charging all these lords, and
you will make all the lords your friends, by your
kindness to them. You shall take my instruc-
tions, I will never advise you any thing that is
ill, but 1 will tell you bow far you shall pro-
ceed. If you can fix any thing Tor them, you
shall be sure to be well gratified.
JL C. J. Did he name any lords to you ?
Bedlow, This was the beginning of the dis-
course, my lord; and I answered him, Mr.
Reading, This id a very nice point, and I know
them to be guilty of all. the things I charge
them with, and 1 can prove it. If your advice
be so, I will consider of it. I think it was after
the prorogation of the last parliament, and then
my encouragement for discovery was not so
great,- But, said I, if any of them deny it to
you, that they are guilty, then they must expect
no kindness from me at all, for I will swear all
that I can against them ;. but if they acknow-
ledge that I do them -a piece of service in not
swearing too severely against them, then I will
be ready to take your advice and instructions.
He told me many times, that sir Henry Titch-
burn did think he had seen me in Paris, but he
did not use this expression to me, That 1
charged him with bringing commissions over
from Rome. I answered again, You may tell
sir Henry Titchbum, if he denies any thing of
the fact that I have sworn, against him, he does
me and himself a great injury. And to take
him off as an innocent man, I cannot do it, I
will never do it. But upon acknowledgment, I
may do them some kindness So likewise my
lord Powis and Caryll. The gentlemen that
he most solicited for, were, my lord Powis, my
lord Petre, my lord Stafford, sir Henry Titch-
burn, Mr. Roper, Mr. Caryll, and one Mr.
Corker a Jesuit. And likewise he made me
easy, upon that day that Mr. Whitebread and
Mr. Fen wick were upon their trials/ for I have
enough against them, because I could be no
stranger to Whitebread and Fenwick, two such
considerable men, being so much concerned as
I was in their affairs. It was imponiblt I
should be so much a stranger to them, at I said
I was, but it was because Mr. Reading bad then
made me easy, and I intended to carry on the
intrigue with him, till it could be handsomely
discovered. But my lord chief justice ssked
me whether that was all I could soj ? And I
told him, rav lord, I liave something more to
say, when time and place require it, sod when
I can be safe in telling it ; that is, when 1 bad
found out all that Mr. Reading intended to do,
how far he would go, and then I thought it
would be a proper time, when I could make
out some such information as I now do; but I
would not stifle that treaty that was betweea
him and me, about the lords in the Tower,
which I knew was of greater consequence than
two old priests. After the dissolution of the
parliament, he told me, We must see other
times and other changes, and that the lords did
not think themselves in so much danger as when,
the parliament was sitting. But at several
places, the Palsgrave-Head Tavern, and others,
we have had -discourse to the like effect. He
would very ftequeutly come to me, and talk
with me about it. Now I asked counsel of no
man, for I have no need of it in my matter ;
it is not matter of law, but matter of fact, that '
I am to make out, therefore I had no need of
his advice, but he would be at my bed-side very
often in a morning; aud before I was dressed,
and then we used to discourse together about
this business, and the manuer and form bow it
should be done, and how well I should be re-
warded if I got off those lords; that is, my lord
Petre, my lord Powis, my lord Stafford, and air
Henry Tichburn ; these were the four that made
the promises : but Mr. Readiug solicited for the
other lords too; they did promise a noble
reward, but I could never settle or fix what it
should be, but I should have acknowledgment!
both in money and estate, from the lords, fot
shortening the evidence, and bringing them of
from the charge of high-treason. We bad *e
vera! consultations about this. The Monder
that my lord Danby was sent for by the BLad
Rod, Mr. Reading came to me in the Speaker'
chamber, and told me, Mr. Bedlow, here is
great turn, my lord Treasurer is sent for by tfa
Black Rod, and things are like to go quit
another way. Well, said I, when were you wit
the lords in the Tower ? Said he, I have n<
been there these two or three days, but said h
I intend to go to-morrow, and then I will brii
you word what they say. And the nest da
or the day following, he came to me, and to
me, that the lords did think, that I was in s»re
measure capable of serving them now ; ai
they would nave an account of what I cod
say against them, that so they might view
and correct it. Accordingly he did go, m
appointed to meet the 28th of March. I ot
several other times that we had consultatio
and now come homeward to the business.
had then a command from the lords to snsp
the papers of the Spanish ambassador a\t W
House, and I could not m€ti Mr. &e*d
2T$] STATE TUAI& 3 1 Ctuius IL 1679,— f or a Trtqxm and
[274
according to promise, and I think the other
witnesses will give you reasons better than I.
This appointment was on Friday night ; on
Saturday morning, he, having missed of me the
night before, came to my lodging, where I had
placed Air. Speke and my man ready against
(ecame. None of all these conferences did I
conceal, bot revealed them to some of the
members, of the privy council, to the prince,
and to my lord of Essex. As soon as ever I had
discoursed with Mr. Reading about this matter,
I did write it in the very words, as near as I
conld, and gave it to the prince, and my lord
of Essex, and I think your lordships are very
well satisfied that the prince and my lord knew
it. And. I cold it to several others, as coun-
sellor Smith, Mr. Kirby, and several others,
who I was certain would be true to the secret,
learing that Mr. Reading had laid a trap to
catch me with, and therefore I was very cau-
ao«a,thaino particular of consequence should
he unknown to them. Indeed, my lord, I was
wry sotry to see Mr. Reading should do so, for
I bad a very great, respect for him ; and he did
ase to give me public advice in general, for
the discvvery of the Plot ; only for some parti-
cular people he did solicit me that I would be
a Bttk easy, those be did solicit for. Upon the
S9th of March, which was Saturday morning,
vhea he came into the room, he asked me, is
there nobody here can overhear us? J told
kirn, no, there was not. Now I had planted
thai gentleman, Mr. Speke, behind my hang-
ings, smd made an hollow place in my bed, and
therein laid my man, and covered him with the
rag so smooth, that it did appear as if it were
bat newly made, and he could not perceive
(here was any body there ; he would have
spoke to me in the dining-room, but I excused
it, telling bkn, That madam Greves, who lay
in the next room, had ot er-heard" several dis-
courses that I had with some persons there,
and therefore k would not be safe, but he had
better go into my chamber (not that she could
hear through the wail, but it was to bring him
into nay chamber) ; he commended my caution,
and came in with me thither;. and bis first
word, as I said, was, is there nobody that can
over-hear r^No, said I, it is my concern to
look to rbat, that all be private : but, said I,
what say the lords in the Tower ? What says
my lord Stafford, what do they intend to do? I
Bias? know speedily, for I am to give in my
Jamtmauon to the Secret Committee of what
I can say against them this night. And I can
slay no longer, but must have their final an-
swer, that I may know what to say when I
came to the Secret Committee, Saith he, I
will go and get their final answer, but pray pat
it off till Wednesday, if you can. Saith I, I
cannot do that, put it off so long, but I will
do what I can to put it off till Monday. Well,
said he, on Monday you shall be sure to hear
from me then, and I will have all thing! ready,
as to what you have to say, and you shall have
it from me. Accordingly I did stay till Monday,
hat the Cc^uakseeof Secrecy knew kail this
TOL. VII.
time ; and when I met him on Monday, I had
ordered the witnesses that were by to over-hear
us, to be present at the delivery of. the paper 5
accordingly they were there, and Mr. Reading
did bring it in his own hand-writing.
Kendtng. What room was it yoa were in,
pray, Sir ?
Bedlotv. In the Painted- chamber. And as
be gave me the paper, pretending to put me
hand in my pocket, I clapped it with my hand
privately behind me thus, and Mr. Speke took
it out of my hand, and he and tny man went
into my lord Privy-Seal's chamber, and there
they read it, and had it three hours before I
ever saw it. Well, said I, what n ill the lords
do ? Why, saith he, though I have not a full
answer as to what they will do, yet you may
expect a noble reward ; and I have order to
draw up blank deeds.
Reading. Who did yoa give that paper to*
Sir?
Bedlow. To Mr. Speke; the rest will justify
it, it is your owa hand-writing. But saith
he, I have order to draw blank deeds to be
signed in ten days after their discharge. And
5ou may be sure that they shall be signed*
£r. Reading, said 1, this is but a verbal pro*
mise, and they may perhaps hereafter charge
me, for all my bringing them off, and do me a
great deal of injury. That cannot be, saith
he, my soul and my life for it, I have taken
their words, and, if there be any faith, honour
and conscience in men, it shall be done : I
dare answer for them. And, Mr. Bedlow,
your safety doth most consist in it; for as they
must never be false with ypu, so they must
never be at enmity with you ; for at last, if
you charge them with corrupting of you, yoa
will be able to ruin them, and it will not look
ill upon you, so much as upon them. Bet, take
my word for it, you shall have a noMe and
worthy acknowledgment. I have authority to
draw blank deeds, both for smns and estates,
which they will settle upon you, and likewise
a speedy supply of money, as soon as tbey caa
get it in ; for my lord Stafford said, he is now
cutting down wood and selling it, and when he
bath raised the money, you shall have it ; but
he protests, at present he hath not now money
to defray the charges of his family ; but I have
order at any time to give you what you need
for present occasions. And indeed accord-
ingly 1 have had a great deal of money from,
him, several guineas. 1 had all I asked for,
and many times gold I did not ask far ; upoa
what terms, other witnesses will prove better
than I hereafter. When we bad done, said be,
let me see what papers you have, the copy of
what you have accused the eueen about,' and
the lords, thai I 'may carry them to the lords,
and have their answer. Said I, they are at my
mother's. I must needs have them, said he.
So, that I might give the witnesses leave to '
come out, I went with him to my mother's
lodgings, and pretended to look for them, but
found them not, for none but the Secret Com-
mittee knoves what is in them. But when I
T
975] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chaelbs IL 1670.— Trial of Nathanad Reading, [370
had looked over my papers, said I, my brother,
perhaps, hath got them away with him, I will
go back to my lodgings and see. Oh ! said he,
you should make sure of such copies as you
have, in some friend's hands, to secure them as
well as the original. I told him, I sboold be
sure of them at night ; so he was satisfied :
though I never intended he should have them,
because there was business of so great conse-
quence in them. When we came back again,
we found Mr. Speke and my man in the cham-
ber, writing. I asked Mr. Speke how long they
had been there ? He told me, as soon as I went
out. Then said I td Mr. Speke, pray withdraw,
for now I am to have Mr. Reading's instruc-
tions ; if you will go before by water, I will
meet you at Westminster by and by. Then I
locked up the street door, and came back to
Mr. Reading, and then to work we fell to write
out those things that he and I did conclude
upon.
Reading. You say that you and J. were then
alone, and your man gone away.
Bedlow.' I said, that then you and I con-
cluded upon what I should say, and what I
should pitch upon they were to correct, accord-
ing to what they thought would most conduce
to their own safety. And when there were any
words that seemed to urge any thing home upon
them, then he would tell me what was law, and
that, perhaps, would reach them, and then al-
tered it. And the Monday after brought a
copy to me, of his own hand-writing, far from
the words that were set down in the paper that
he and I concluded of together, and delivered
it to me privately, and I delivered it to this gen-
tleman, carrying it behind me thus, and he
came after me and took it from me.
Sir C. Levins. Mr. Bedlow, this, you say,
was for the shortening of the evidence; how
was it«to be shortened ?
Bedlow. To take off the whole charge of guilt,
that I had sworn against them:
Sir C. Levinz. Did that, which you agreed
upon to shorten, take off from the treason ?
Bedlow. That which the witnesses had in
writing did take off the charge of treason
wholly.
Sir C. Levins. Was it less than the infor-
mation you had giveu in against them ?
Bedlow. I told him, that it was not delivered
into the Secret Committee, but indeed I had a
great while before
X. C. J. I will tell you. what I apprehend he
did say ; if I mistake, he will set it right. He
•aith, When he came back with Mr. Reading,
he found Mr. Speke and his man in the cham-
ber together ; be asked Mr. Speke how long he
had been there, and how chanced be was up so
soon ? Mr. Speke said to him, I have been here
ever since you went away. That, upon Mr.
Bedlow's desire, he went away before him to
Westminster, and they went together to con-
oult, and great care was used, that they might
Jiot be hindered or surprized. Then Mr. Bed-
low was to pen his testimony, and it was to be
carried to the. lords in the Tower, and they
were to consider how to have it minced, that
they might be oat of danger. And Mr. Read-
ing understanding the law, whenever Mr. BecP-
low spoke plainr or dictated anything that
would come home to them, would tell him of
it, and that Mr. Bedlow might correct ami
mitigate it himself. I understand you so. Mr«
Bedlow.
Bedlow. Yes, my lord, k was so. And that
paper, which he brought me back, was tei>
times shorter than that he had of mine, which-
was forty times shorter than what I bad given
in to the Secret Committee.
Mr. Ward. Mr. Bedlow liath faUv proved
the discourse and bargain between him and
Mr. Reading, for the lessening of his evidence.
Bedlow. All Mr. Reading's words were, that
I would so shorten and lessen the charge against
them, that they might come off,
JL C. J. Mr. Reading, if vou have a mind
to it, you have liberty to ask him any ques-
tions.
Reading. My lord, I bombiy desire I may
do it, when the evidence for the king is mil
given.
X. C. J. It is most proper to do it now.
Reading. With your lordship's favour, I
have this reason for it, I do desire that the wit-
nesses may be examined apart.
Justice Wild. Mr. Bedlow, pray let me ask
you one question. I am upon the indictment,
for the jury is charged upon that, and we roust
judge upon that, Was the agreement between>
you and him, that yoa should swear what ha
should direct you ?
Bedlow. It was, to what he and the lord*
would direct.
Justice Wild. Did the lords correct your
paper?
Bedlow. As he aaid, they have done it.
Justice Wild. Did he acknowledge it r
Bedlow. Yes, he did.
X. C. J. Mr. Bedlow, I don't understand that
you were to have any conference with the*,
lords, but you were to be shy of that, lest it
should be discovered, but what conference yot»
were to have was with Mr. Reading. "
Bedlow. Yes, my Lord, and he was to give
me an account what they would have me say.
Justice Jouee. Shew him the paper, I suppose
be will own his own hand.
X. C. J. Is that your hand, Sir ?
Reading. My Lord, jhis is my hand, and this
is that paper that I did deliver to Mr. Bedlovr
before Mr. Speke in the PaintenVChamber.
Ward. We desire it may be read, if your
lordship think fit.
Justice Atkins. Methinks it should be ma*
terial to read the paper that he gave to Reading
first.
X. C. J. Have you it here, Mr. Bedlow?
Bedlow. No ; he carried that paper to Use
lords, and brought me this again.
X. C. J. But had you' never that other paper
again?
Bedlow. No, I had not.
X. Cr J. Did you ever take a copy of it ?
r
£77] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chailbs EL i679.-^br a Trespass and Misdemeanor. [278
Reading, No, My Lord, but by my pwn io-
treajy.
Bedlam. No, I did not. Bat this is that cor-
rected paper that I was to giv e io to the secret
committee, and corrected by the Lords.
Sir C. Levins. We do prove it in fact, that
be had before erven farther evidence, and by
this agreement he did contract to give less.
L. C.J. Mr. Beading, what do you say to
Mr. Bedlow*
Reading. My Lord, if I have your lordship's
direction that I may not examine my witnesses
apart, I'll go on.
L. C. J. Bat what say you to the paper ?
Reading. I do own the paper that was shewn
tome, is my hand, and that I delivered it to
Mr. Bedlow.
L. C. J. Then* it must be read.
Sir C Leumz. My Lord, we don't desire it
should be read, for we cannot shew the former
paper, that did contain more ; and therefore
what wOl the reading of -the latter^ which con*
Cains less, signify ?
L.C.J. If you do ntf desire to have it reed,
we won't vend it.
Sir C levin*. Mr. Bedlow's evidence is, that
Chens was a paper much more huge than this,
and yet both those short of the information he
had given in ; now what will the reading of the
4me signify* without the other ?
L.C. J. Da you consent to the reading of it ?
Mending. My Lord, I would save your time,
and make it plain.
L. C J. Mr. Reading, You must not come to
make your defence yet, till the king's evidence
Reading. -My Lord, I doit to open his evi-
dence, and for your information. My Lord,
Mr. Bedlow charge/ me, that I did write in his
chamber, when his man and Mr. Speke were
gone, a paper that was much larger than the
paper your lordships have before you; he does
amy that be did desire me to go with that to the
lords, and that they did correct it in several
places, and being so corrected, I did bring him
this paper back; and delivered it tohunin
the Painted-chamber, before Mr. Speke. My
Lord, I do pray your lordship's favour in it;
when I bad the king's directions for giving in to
the secret committee what information I had
to give, I did deliver it into the chamber, where
were Mr. Sacbeverell and others, that very
paper, which was written at his chamber. My
Lard, I have sent to him several times, chat he
would deliver that to me in order to my own
justification at my trial. » I did desire likewise
that some other papers which I did receive
from Mr. Bedlow under his own band, and which
would be very material to my defence, might
be brought to me, but I have not had the favour
of an answer from Mr. Sacheverell, to this very
hoar. I do humbly desire that he may be sent
to, for the delivery of them.
L. C. J. 1 do not know how we can send
for them, if the committee will not deliver them.
Reading. Will your lordship give me leave to
send to him?
X. C. /. But not by our direction, to bring
(hen as by our command.
L. C. J. Do what you will, as from yourself.
Mr. Reading, your wife was with me yesterday,
and said, you could not get Subpoena s for your
witnesses ; and I sent for the clerk about it,
and he told me, there never was any Subpoena's
denied you, but you might have had them at
any time. But what say you to this paper,
you of the king's counsel?
SirC. Levins. My Lord, we do not desire to
have it read without the other.
L. C. J. Look you here, this paper must be
read, for we would see whether there was a
paper under your hand, expressing what evi-
dence Mr, Bedlow was to give in this matter,
and whether you did one way or other put any
thing in writing which he should swear, to lessen
his evidence. As for the other matter of tarn*
paring, we shall bear from others concerning
it ; but let us have this read, not for comparing
it with die other paper, to shew the testimony
is less in this than in the other, but as an evi-
dence of the fact in itself; for we will expect
a good account from you Mr. Reading, what
you had to do to prescribe him bis evidence in
writing ; therefore pray read the paper.
Then the Paper was read, in h*c verba :
\ Lord Stafford.
On discovery of the plot to me, I asked Har-
court and Le Faire l*w things were to be mana-
ged, they told me that his lordship was to be trea-
surer, and be, and Ireland, and Coleman, had
money to defray all charges; I then said I never
heard that his lordship was engaged before ; '
they said be had not been long concerned, nor
was he acquainted with the affair much ; but
that the money which was lodged with him was
to be disposed of by him for the use of the
church and the Catholics, and they had bound
his lordship up by sacraments not to discover
what the money lodged with him was to do till
the time of using it, and then his lordship should
know what great trust he had upon him for
them; and till things were ripe he was not to
be acquainted with the depth of the plot, for.
they knew he would never consent to the king's
death till it was done. His lordship always
promised to be ready to serve the church with'
Lis life and fortune.
Lord Powis.
That the Lady Abbess of Panthoie told me,
That his lordship had sent his daughters over to
be educated in the monastery, but that his lord-
ship's Lady had declared to her by letter, that
she meant them as pledges according to her
promise, to assure her that her Lord was real
to carry on what he had promised concerning
the introducing the Roman Catholic Religion
into England. I brought over a letter from the
Monks in Paris directed to his lordship, with seve-
ral other letters to other popish gentlemen, tend*
ing to the death of the king, and subverting of the
government ; but what was in that letter to h«
479] STATfe TRIALS, 31 Chahles II. 1B79.— 7WaZ qfNathanad Reading, [28G
lordship I know not,, for that I did not open it,
as I had done the others, it being directed to a
peer; but I believe it might be to the same
effect, the Monks having informed me so at the
delivering them to me ; set eral other letters to
the same effect (as the priests told me) I saw in
the priests hands, directed to his lordship ; but
I never didjread any of them, nor can I say that
bis lordship ever received any of them, but I saw
them put into the post-house to send forwards,
and I never saw his lordship at any consultation,
neither did I ever hear his lordship named at
any consultation where the killing of the king
was mentioned or debated of : but I verily be-
lieve that his lordship was acquainted with the
design of introducing popery, for that the lady
Abbess and the Priests have several times told
me so, or to that effect.
. »
Lord Petre.
Mr. Tyrrel a Priest, and Madam Thirablehy
bis lordship's sister told me, that Mr.Thimbleby
was gone to my Lord Petre's house to consult
with bim how to proceed in the managing of
their business. Mr. Tbimbleby having received
letters from beyond sea in order to the intro-
ducing the Roman Catholic Religion into Eng-
land,, and that his lordship would not in any sort
be persuaded to bring it in by force, but rather
by policy ; and though his lordship had truly en-
gaged himself never to quit the design, yet she
Was sure he would not do it by foul means. I
told her at her husband's ftouse at Ernly, that
where a design was to be carried on for so ge-
neral a good, no particular way was to be pitched
upon, but any thing, and all means was to be
used to»bring it to pass, rather than lose the de-
sign : to which she replied, that she believed
and approved the same, but that she well knew
his lordship's mind, that he would never agree
to do it by force ; but as he would not hinder
it, should it go on by force, so he would further
k by any other means whatsoever.
X. C. J. Here is an evidence indeed, but so
ininced, that it would have .signified nothing as
to the charge against them.
Bedlow. In the information that I gave in to
the secret committee, there is ten sheets of
paper in every evidence against every lord.
X. C. J. Now go to the other witnesses.
Ward. Pray swear Mr. Speke. Which was
done.
Ward. Come, Mr. Speke, declare your evi-
dence, and pray come over on this side.
£. C. J. I would have him stand on the
Other side, because Mr. Heading desires to exa-
mine them apart
Speke. My lords, and you gentlemen of the
jury, I should have been very loth and unwil-
ling ^o have made myself so public as to have
appeared here as a witness against Mr. Read-
ing the prisoner at the bar, upon any other ac-
count than this : hut at such a time as this, and
in such an intrigue as this was, in which both
the king and kingdom was concerned, I thought
ihy self bound both in duty and allegiance to
appear in what I have done and to testify the
truth of what I know, for the preservation and
defence of both ;• and therefore shall declare to
you the treaty that was in my hearing the 29th.
of March law, between Mr. Bedlow and Mr.
Reading now at the bar, and I shall not for the
world attest any thing hut what 1 heard dis-
coursed between them, but will relate it to you
in their own expressions, as near as possibly 1.
can remember ; and as to the matter and sab-
stance of what I shall declare to you to be dis-
coursed between them, I will andean both po-
sitively swear.
But before I acquaint you thereof, I most
beg leave to tell you, that I knew almost daily
from Mr. Bedlow, for some considerable time
before, what was in the treaty between him end
Reading, and how they proceeded in this affair,
and therefore could the better charge my me-
mory with their discourse, and with the passa-
ges which passed between them, and Mr.Bedbw
having himself told you that he acquainted
two or three persons likewise of very great qua-
lity all along with this treaty between bhn and
Mr,. Reading, and with Mr. Reading's constant
and almost daily consultation and advice to
him upon this account, and with his large pro- '
mises to him from these popish lords and other
gentlemen accused and in -custody upon the
account of this horrid plot.
I shall not now tire your patience so much
as to acquaint you with what i had from Mr.
Bedlow from time to time, after Mr. Reading
had been with him discoursing of this affair •
but I shall be as short as I can in coming
close to the point, and therefore shall only ac-
quaint you with the matter and substance of
what I myself beard discoursed between Mr.
Reading and Mr. Bedlow the 29th of March
last.
The 98th of March last, I met with Mr. Bed-
low here at Westminster, who privately told
me, tfiat Mr. Reading had appointed to bo
with him in the evening about the old affair,
and therefore desired me to come to his lodgings
about seven o'clock, and there should be some
private place found out for me advantageously
to hear their discourse : I went to Mr. Becl-
low's lodgings at Whitehall about the time he
desired me to come ; where I met with Mr.
Reading, who was then just come, and asking
Henry Wiggins whether his master was at home,
who told him, that he was not ; upon which)
Mr. Reading went away, and left word with
this young man that he would come again pre*
sently, and desired him to acquaint bis master
with it as soon as he came home : I staid
there with this young man a short time after
Mr. Reading was gone, asking him whether he
could tell where his master was, who told me
he could not, hot told me that there was some
company at the KiugVhead tavern at Charing—
Cross which staid there for him, and that his
master iwuld call there before he came home ;
upon which 1 immediately went to the King's*-
head Tavern, and asked whether Mr. Bedlow
was there ; but I understood that t^ere wras
some company staying there, expecting to speale
9H] STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles II. I67fc~-fl* a Tuqou and Mudmean*. [tSi
with Mr. Besflow, hat that he ms sot then
come to them; upon which I wan then to
Mao's coffeobousa, and' staid there a while,
bet had ordered ooe of the boys of the tavern
teopme and acquaint me as soon as Mr. Bedlow
cane ; bat finding that no one came from the
tavern, after some time I went thither again,
and understood that he had not been there,
aad that the company was gone which staid for
bin ; and then I went back again to Mr. Bed*
low's lodgings, where at soon as I came, this
young man came one aad told me, Mr. Read-
ing was above, and staid there to speak with
his master, oo which I called him oot to roe, and
tokiasm I was desired by his master to come to be
kid ia> scan* private piece conveniently to hear
the discourse between them, and therefore I
amurved some way to get Mr. Reading out,
that I might in the mean time convey myself
issososne private place, where I might be able
t» hear their discourse ; whereupon I ordered
thiayoamg man (whilst 1 was walking without
at snsnt distance) to go op and tell Mr. Read*
iag that there was one which came from the
King's head Tavern at Chartng-Cross to ac-
quaint him that his master was there with
asaie company, and to tell Mr. Reading;
that hit master would not be able to get away
from them, if he did not go to him ; whereupon
tmsyoong vnan went immediately to Mr. Read-
ing and acquainted him with it according to
ay desire and direction, aad then Mr. Reading
went presently to the tavern, end in the mean
time I got up into the bed-chamber, and placed
myself between the hanging* of the bed and
the wail ; but Mr. Reading finding not Mr.
Bedlow at the tavern, went away home, and
left word with this young man that he would be
with his master by seven o'clock in the morn-
ing and ordered him to acquaint his master
with it, that he might be up when he came ;
and as soon as Henry Wiggins returned back
and acquainted me that Mr. Reading was gone
home, and had left word with him that he would
be with hi* master by seven o'clock in the
morning, I went home, but left word with this
young man, that 1 would be with his master by
Ave or six o'clock ta the morning, and desired
him to acquaint his master with it. I got op
she neat morning by tot o'clock, and went im-
mediately down to Mr. Bedlow's lodgings.
Reading. Sir, you> are pleased to sa'y, that
the S8th of March you was told, that I woald
he there about seven of the clock in the morning,
and that you at first met me there, and that the
appoiatment failing, then you came the next
morning, which was the 89tb.
L. €. J. I will tell yon bow I apprehend
him : the first appointment was the 88th of
March, which was on Friday, and then failing the
ether was the next morning which was the 29th.
Speke. As soon as I came to Mr. Bedlow's
lodgings, I caused the centinel to* knock hard
at the door to raise them op ; and in the mean
time I went into King-btreet, expecting to have
gst info some cofFee*neuse or other for to drink
a dish of coffee, whilst they were tfeiag, but it
was so early that there was no coffee-house
open ; upon which I was forced to return back
again to Mr. Bedlow's lodgings, and then this
young man and maid were both got up, and
did let me in, and I went up immediately to
Mr. dedlow, and raised him out of his bed ;
and somewhat before 7 o'clock we placed this
yoofcrg man upon the bed, with the rug only on
him, and prepared a place for me on the inaid*
of the bed, between the hangings of the bed
and the wall. %
L. C. /. Yon say he was on the bed, and you,
between the bed and the wall ?
Speke. Yes, my lord, between the bed and
the wall I was* and be on the bed ; and as soon
as ever I heard somebody knock at the door
(the door being locked by Mr. Bedlow's order,
to give me notice of his coming) I ran imme-
diately into my station before lie came up, and
presently after the door was open, I beard Mr.
Reading's voice as he was coming up stairs,
(which I know almost as well as his person) aa
he was Speaking to the maid,' and afterwards to
Mr. Bediuw, who met him either in the passage
or at the stair-head, and then they came both
into the bed-chamber, (where, I believe, Mr.
Reading little thought any body was) though
he was so cautious as to ask win ther there was
nobody there that could over-hear him ; to
which Mr. Bedlow replied. No, noj or soma
words to that effect. And then Mr. Bedlow
began, and said to Mr. Reading, What say the
lords in the Tower, now? and what says my
lord Stafford as to the estate in Gloucestershire f
To which Mr. Reading tiieh replied, and said,
My lord has faithfully promised me to settle
that estate upon you, and 1 nave orders front
my lord to draw up a blank deed in order ta
settle it on yon ; which deed my lord hath an*
gaged me to sign and seal ten days after be
snail be discharged, you bringing him off front
this charge of High-Treason, by shortening ana)
contradicting of your evidence. And Mr.
Reading said, My lord Powis, my lord Petrer
and sir Henry lichburn, have JajthfiiUy en-
gaged and promised me, that they will every
one of them give you a very large and noble
reward, which shall be suitat>le to the service
you shall do them, by shortening and contract*
mg of your evidence against them, and in bring-
ing them off likewise from this charge of High-
Treason. To which Mr. Bedlow replied and
said, I will not rely upon their promises only,
but do expect to have something under their
hands. To which Mr. Reading then replied
and said, They do not think it fit aad con-
venient for them to do that as yet, but you maw
safely and securely take my word, as I have
done theirs, they having alt so faithfully pro*
mised me to perform all I have told you front,
them. And Mr. Reading finding that Mr.
Bedlow doubted their performances, according
to their words, did moreover use these very
expressions, and said, I will engage my life toe
it. To which Mr. Bedlow then replied, I will
then take yoor word, as you have done theirs.
And also told him, The Committee do ptesf
flgS] STATE TRIALS, 51 Chailss 1L 1679.— Trial qfNathanael Reading, [SM
upon me to deliver in what I have to say against
the lords, and therefore I desire I may have
their answer speedily, that I may know what
they intend to do, and what they do resolve
upon, because I caanot well defer delivering in
what I have to say against them 'any longer than
this- night, because I bear they come very
speedily .upon their trials. To which Mr.
Reading then replied, That he was sure they,
could <not be brought to their trials before
Easter, telling Mr. Bedlow what the parlia-
ment must do first, and how they were to pro-
ceed in this case: That they must come down
as he arraigned, and after that, they must have
time, to give in their answer, and after that, they
must have time to prepare for their trials; -and
old him, that he might very well defer it till
Wednesday ; but Mr. Bedlow told him, that he
could not defer it till Wednesday, but be would
put it off till Monday, and longer he could not:
And then Mr. Reading said, that he would go
presently to the lords and acouaint them with
what be said, and that he should not rail of having
their answer by him on Monday, and that it
ahouioV be ready for him to deliver it into the
Committee that night. And after this dialogue
was over between Mr. Reading and Mr. Bed-
low, they went out into the dining-room, and
there Mr. Reading stayed till Mr. Bedlow had
quite dressed himself, and afterwards went out
both together, aitd stayed away about half an
hour; and when they returned, I and this young
man were both together in the dining-room,
and then Mr. Bedlow spoke to me as if I were
but just came, asking me bow long I had been
there ; I told him I just called on him as I was
going to Westminster, or somewhat to that pur-
pose, so that Mr. Reading might not any ways
suspect my being there before-hand, to hear the
dialogue which passed between them. Mr.
Reading then called for a sheet of paper and
pen and ink, and went into the bed-chamber,
sneaking and desiring Mr. Bedlow to follow
him ; but after Mr. Reading was gone into the
bed-chamber, Mr. Bedlow came to me, as I
was standing by the. chimney, and whispered
to me, that they were then just going to draw
«P what they had concluded on, that the lords
might see it and correct it as they thought fit
and that <they might send him on Monday, in
writing, what he should deliver into the Com-
mittee to swear against them; which I saw de-
livered by Mr. Reading, according to his pro-
mise, to Mr. Bedlow, on tbe Monday morning
following, in the Painted-Chamber" at West-
minster, which paper was writ by Mr. Reading's
ewn band, Mr. Bedlow delivering it to me as
soon as ever Mr. Reading left him ; and then I
and another gentleman of quality went up im-
mediately into the room they call the Lord
Privy-Seal's room, where the Committee of
lords use to sk, and there Mr. Wharton and I
read tbe paper so delivered, being writ by Mr.
Reading's own band.
Jury. Did you see Mr. Reading's face ?
Mr. Speke. Ay, between tbe door and tbe
wicket, but not m the room* On the Monday
morning following, Mr. Bedlow desired that I
would be here at Westminster before-hand, and •
be would come thither. And he told me they
were to correct the Paper, and he was to bring
it corrected, and, said ne, pray follow me, and
see the paper delivered.
Reading. What day was that he desired you?
Speke. It was upon Saturday, the 29th
of March, (hat I overheard what was said,
and it was upon tbe Monday morning following
that I met with Mr. Bedlow, and be bid me go;
to Westminster before. And I did so, and
when we. met at Westminster I went after Mr,
Bedlow at a distance : And in the middle of tbe
Court of Requests he met with Mr. Reading,
and they went together into the Painted Cham-
ber, and I followed them at a distance ; my eye
was very much upon them, but I saw Mr. .
Reading was very cautious that I should not
see the paper delivered ; and indeed I was as
shy as he, that he should not see that I took
notice of it, but I did direct my eye somewhat
carelessly that way, and at last I saw the paper
delivered by Mr. Reading to Mr. Bedlow; and
as Mr. Bedlow told you, I and another gentle*
man of quality went away to tbe Lord Privy
Seal's lodgings, where he opened the paper,
and saw what was delivered to him, and read it :
and this is all I have to say.
L. C. J. Shew him the paper. Is this that
paper, that you saw him deliver to Mr. Bedlow ?
sir C. Levins, Look upon it, Sir, is that tbe ■
paper 1—Speke. Yes, my lord, certainly I take
it so to be.
Just. Atkins. He bath owned it
L. C.J. Mr. Reading, if you would ask
this gentleman any questions this is your proper
time.
Reading. I hope your lordship will give me
tbe favour to examine them apart.
Just. Wild. Mr. Reading, you do confess
what Mr. Speke says to be true ? '
Reading. My Lord, I did' deliver that very
paper to Mr. Bedlow in the Painted Chamber
in the Court of Requests before Mr. Spekef
and it is every word of it of my own hand
writing.
Just. Dolben. Did you see Mr. Reading us
the room ?
Speke. I did not see him, till he was between,
the wicket and the door.
Just. Wild. Mr. Speke, let me ask you ooe
question ; did not you know his voice t
Speke. I knew his voice almost as well as
hisj>erson.
L. C. Baron. You are sure it was he ?
Speke. Yes, I am very confident it was he«
Is. C. J. And the discourse was, that has
would have it put off till Wednesday, but Mr.
Bedlow would not, but only put it off till Mots*
day, and then they agreed upon a paper, an
account of which Mr. Reading promised to
give on the Monday following.
fteke. Yes, my Lord, it was so. .
• C.J. So that the feet does answer thes
discourse, for on the Mtnday following the
paper was delivered.
9B&] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chaklbs II. 1070.-/or a Trespass and Misdemeanor. [S&
Mr. Ward. Here it only one other evidence,
and that is Mr. Bedlow's servant, that was pot
in the bed, as Mr. Bedlow tells you. Pray
swear Henry Wiggins. Which -was done.
Sir C. Lerotx. Come on, young man, speak
yoor knowledge of this matter.
Wiggins. My lord, what I have to say is
this.
L. C. J. Speak oat.
Wiggins. What I have to say, is only what
Mr. Speke hath said before ; and indeed he
hath been so very plain, and so exact in all
particulars, that I need say but little, and
therefore shall be very short. My lord, on
Saturday the 29th of March last, Mr. Reading
came to my master's lodging between seven
and eight in the morning. I was placed on the
bed, with the rug only on roe ; arid Mr. Speke
was behind the bed, between the hangings of
the bed and the wail. As soon as Mr. Read-
ing came into the room, be asked my master,
if there were nobody there that could
hear them ? My master said, No. Then my
master asked, What say the lords in the Tower
now ? And, What 'says my lord Stafford, as to
the estate m Gloucestershire ? Saith he, my
lord hath promised faithfully to settle it upon
yoo; and has given me order to draw up blank
deeds, which in ten days after his discharge, be
will sign : And this was for the lessening the
evidence. I think those were the words. And
last then the rag troubling me, that I could not
hear well, I put it off my bead ; and, my lord,
I saw Mr. Reading stand by my master in the
chamber. Saith he, my lord Powis, my lord
Petre, mod sir Henry Ticbburn, have all pro-
mised you a suitable reward to the good service
you shall do them, in bringing them off from
their charge. • Saith my master, I do not think
fit to rely upon their promises ouly; but do ex-
pect something under their bands. No, said
he, they do not think it convenient for them to
do that, as yet ; but you may safely take my word,
as well as I have done theirs : And I will
engage my life for it, (Which were the words
Mr. Reading used.) Saith my master, The
committee do press upon me to give in my evi-
dence, and I cannot defer it any longer than
this night. Saith Mr. Reading, They cannot
come to their trial till Easter ; because such
and such things are to be done, (as Mr. Speke
hath told you) before they can come to their
trials, which cannot be done till then: And
you may very well .defer it till Wednesday.
No, said my master, I cannot ; but I will do
what I can to defer it till Monday. Saith Mr.
Reading^ will then go to the lords, and acquaint
them with what you say ; and bring you an an-
swer from * them on Monday morning. And
that day, when he came to the Painted Cham-
ber, I saw him deliver that paper to my master,
and my master carrying it behind him ; and I saw
Ur. Speke take it from him ; and Mr. Speke
and another gentleman went afterwards together
up into my Lord Privy-Seal's room to read it.
Jury. How long was it ere you saw Mr.
Beading, after the discourse in the room f
Wiggins. I cot up presently after they were
gone oat, and I saw them together at the door;
and as soon as they were gone, (as I told yon)
we both went out into the dining room, and
went to write down what was said : And with-
in half an hour, they came back again into the
room. And saith my master to Mr. Speke,
What makes you so early here ? How long have
you been here ? Said he, I called upon you 'as
I was going to Westminster. And then my
master desired Mr. Speke to go before to
Westminster : And Mr. Reading called for pen,
ink,and paper; and went into the bed-chamber,
speaking to my master to follow him i And so
we went away.
Jury. You say, That yon saw him. there t
and not only heard him talk, but saw him ? '
Wiggins. When he came into the room,
the rug was over my head, and they spoke so
softly that I could not hear him very well ; but
I put it off, without his perceiving me, and saw
him then, and heard Inm plain : And when
they went out again, I saw them both.
Speke. We opened the hangings, my ford, a
little at the bottom,' that he might not suspect
any thing, and the curtains were but half drawn
or a little more : So that, when he put off the
rug, he might easily see him.
L. C. J. Have you any further evidence fbr
the king?
Sir C. Levins. My lord, if your lordship
please, we shall trouble yon with no further
evidence : We have proved it by three wit-
nesses.
L. C. J. Then, Mr. Reading, now is the
time fbr you to make your defence : They have
concluded, that are for the king.
Heading. My lord, I am very unwilling to
spend any of vour lordship's time in vain. There
is one part or the indictment,' which' I do hum-
bly take notice of to your lordship beforehand :
they are so far from charging me to be of the •
plot, or knowing of the plot, that Mr. Bedlow
hath declared the pressingness of my persua-
sions to him, from time to time, that he would
be very full and positive, in charging any man
according to his knowledge. Therefore I shall
not spend any time, my lord, in speaking to that
I am obliged to Mr. Bedlow, that he hath done
me so much right, in saying what he hath said
of me about that : But I shall apply myself
singly to what he hath given in evidence against
me ; and what hath been spoken to by Mr.
Speke and bis servant.
My lord, the indictment is, That I should en-
deavour to persuade to lessen his evidence
agaiust those lords, and sir Henry Tichburn ;
that is to say, my lord Powis, my lord Stafford,
and my lord Petre : They prove nothing against
me, as to the other. And my lord, because the
indictment ; dothi likewise set forth, that this
was done on the behalf of these lords, and on
their account, as it says, I shall humbly (before
I go on to censure the evidence) give your lord*
ship an account, upOn what occasion it was,
and how I went to see any of these lords, and
sir Henry Tichburn here mentioned.
U
My lord, within a few days after the lords
were seat to the Tower, Mr. Bulstrode. a geu-
tlemau of the privy-chamber to his majesty, did
come to me from my lord Stafford ; telling me,
That my lord Stafford desired to be remembered
to me, and to pray me to come to him.
My lord, I did tell that gentleman, That
though I had a very great reverence for my
lord, having known him long, and having been
my client for several years ; yet, considering
bow his circumstances then were, I should not
venture to go to him, till I had acquainted some
of the lords of the close committee with it, and
had their leave.
Mr. Bulstrode said, I acted very prudently in
it ; And accordingly I did go, and acquainted
the Prince, my Lprd Treasurer, the marquis of
Worcester and some other lords with it : And
they told me, That my profession did privilege
me to go ; and God forbid, but that respect
should be sfeewn him and the rest of the lords.
Hereupon, my lord, I did go ; and when I was
there, I acquainted the Lieutenant of the Tower
with it ; who invited me to dinner with him : I
did so, my lord, and my lord Stafford was there:
And afterwards be did desire' me to go to his
quarters with him : And being there, he told
me, That I was not ignorant of what be was
charged with, and upon what account he was
there: And he was pleased to say much con-
cerning his own innocency. I told his lordship,
I heartily wished it might appear he was as in-
nocent a* he said he was.
Then he desired me to move for his Habeas
Corpus. I told him I thought it not seasonable
yet to do it : I also told him, I would not at all
admit myself to be of counsel for him, but for
his innocency and as an innoceut man; with
this, that I did so expressly abhor and detest
the crime that he was charged with, that
though I were of counsel with him, or in the
very highest degree of friendship imaginable,
should I discover he was guilty of it, I would
be so far from continuing of counsel for him,
that f> would come in as a witness against him.
My lord, upon these terms it was, that my
lord took my advice, and be gave me my fee,
which was two guineas.
My lord, afterwards I was desired by several
of the lords to speak with sir Heory Goring,
and sdr John Gage, then prisoners in the Tower:
And my lord, they did desire ine, that I would
move for their Habeas Corpus's ; and, my lord,
I did so. I was then sent to by my lord Brud-
nel, and several other gentlemen in the King's-
bench, prisoners upon this account : And, my
lord, I dad at this bar move for several of
their Habeas Corpus's. And having the direc-
tion of the Court, that though they did not
deny the granting of the writ ; yet notwith-
standing, no benefit should be bad of Uiat writ,
unless Mr. Attorney bains attended in it,
should give consent to their being bailed. Ac-
cordingly my lord, Mr. Attorney did attend in
it, and be was pleased to say, That he would
not do any thing for the bailing of any, for all
that the writ was granted, till he knew what
1679 — Trial <f NatKanael Reading, [389
their accusers charged them with. I then knew
it was in vain to bring them up, tuT Mr. Attor*
ney wns satisfied.
Mr. Scroggs and I did go from Mr. Attorney
to Mr. Bedlow and Mr. Oates : and the seve-
ral persons for whom we were of counsel, be-
ing set down in a list, we did also set down our
directions from Mr. Attorney about them; ami
did pray them to let us know what they had to>
charge any of tbem with. And if they were
easy in their consenting to their being bailed,
then we did go to Mr. Attorney to let bios
know it; and be being satisfied from their own
mouths, did consent to the bailing of several of
them.
My lord, this did occasion my discoursing se-
veral times with Mr. Bedlow and Mr. Oates,
concerning the nature of the several charges*
against the gentlemen they had accused. My
lord, during the whole time of my being con*
versant with Mr. Bedlow (and he hath given)
your Jordship an account how I came acquaint-
ed with him) though I did desire sir Trevor
Williams might be here, and did send him a
Subpana, because 1 knew he was unwilling to>
come unless he were summoned ; and I should
be glad to see him here.
Bedlow. My lord, sir Trevor Williams is io
the House of Commons ; and ordered me t»
send for him, if there were occasioj).
X. C. J. Then pray send for him, because
Mr. Reading desires it. (Which was done).
In the mean time, pray, Mr. Reading, will yov
go on in your defence. But all that hath
been spoken, is not much to the purpose. I
would have you apply yourself to the fact
sworn, which is comprehensive of all the in-
dictment ; and that is, what happened in tbe>
chamber the 29th of March last : answer that
fact.
Reading. I shall, my lord ; but I desire Mr.
Bulstrode may be examined to those poiats X
have spoken to.
Butttrode. My lord, I desire you would hear
me, for he is very much mistaken in what ha
hath said concerning me: For he seems to say/
I came to him, which I did not do; but acct-
dentallv met him at Whitehall.
X. C, J. Look you, uuless he calls you, yoa
are not to be called by us, as a witness for the
king.
BuUtrode* My lord, he served me with a
Subpana.
£. C. /. Mr, Reading, would you have Mr*
Bulstrode examined ?
Reading. Yes, my lord, if you please; I did
pray him to be here to that end. *
L. C. /. In this case, though he be a witness,
for Mr. Reading, he must be sworn : Therefore
swear Mr. Bulstrode. (Which was done). WeH,
what do you ask him ?
Reading. M v lord, all I do humbly desire
is, That he will give your lordship an account
whether be did not come unto me in the uame
of my lord Stafford ?
Bulstrode. My lord, I happened one day to>
go see *ir William Goring; who was my nejg)h»
boor ro the country : And as I was going out,
I saw my lord Stafford walking : and saluting
him, he asked me,Dowu know one Mr.Read-
iag,a lawyer ? I asked him, What Readirfg ? He
answered, That used to be at the Parliament
Home. I said, I did. Than said he, Pray
teQ aim when yoa see him, I would speak with
hi si, and should be glad to see him : And in
two or three days after, I met with him ; and
said I, Mr. Reading, my lord Stafford asked me
if I knew you ; and desired me to tell you, he
would be glad to see you. My lord Stafford !
said be ; and seemed surprised at the name ;
and I repeated it to him : and this was all that
past between me and him. And this was some
time in Michaelmas term last.
X. C. J. . Look y««u, Mr. Reading, we know
that the acquaintance yoa had with Bedlow,
and your going to the lords, was in Michaelmas
term t the Habeas Corpus's and the matter of
bailiag wa* in Hilary terra, which ended the
12th of February ; and therefore the business
between Mr. Attorney and you, must be during
Hilary term. But this fact charged upon you
re the indictment, and sworn by the witnesses,
being on the 28th, 29tb and 31st of March,
that b a quite other thing : and therefore I
would have you apply yourself to that.
Reading. My lord, I shall humbly observe
your lordship's directions in that : Bet I desire
to be heard in this other thing also, which was
m Michaelmas term. I say, my lord, they
were desiring of me to advise them, whether
they should move in the House of Lords,
whence most of the commitments were issued.
For as to eotne, the charge was against them in
the House of Commons, some in the House of
Lords, some were generally committed by my
Lard Chief Justice Scroggs ; and according to
the nature of the cases, so they did desire me
that I would advise them how to address them-
selves, by one way or other, for procuring their
liberty by bail or otherwise. And a* to the
writs obtained, and the bailing of several of
them, it was in Hilary term, which was before
lie met charged upon me. Bat I did give
your lordship an account bow it was> in order
id have it appear naked before you ; and then
1 shook! be in j our lordship's judgment, which,
1 am sere, will he* right. And I do say, my
lord, that afterwards I met several time* with
ssy lord Powis and my lord Petre, at the Lieu-
tenant of the Tower's house.
X. C. J. Here is now sir Trevor William* ;
an you desire he should be sworn?
Reading. I do, my lord.
X. C. J. Then give him hit oath. (Which
at done}.
Reading. My lord, with' your lordship's fa-
vour, that which t desire sir Trevor Williams to'
£ve your brdship an account of, is this, Whe-
ther he wiia not pleased to bring Mr. Bedlow to
aty chamber, and to recommend me> so him
stftot his pardon ?
Sir TV. William. My lord, Mr. Reading
w*v en acquaintance of mine ; and upon what
tfetfew,! had^ grewt- ofqhioii of hi0 knowledge
StiWJer « Trctp&to and Mbdcmttmor. [290
in the law « and Mr. Bedlow was a cduntryman
of mine, and I was very desirous he should hove
his pardon as perfect as could be : And in or*
der to that, I recommended him to Mr. Read*
ing, and desired him to be careful about it.
And that is all that I can say.
X. C. J. What further questions would yon
ask him ?
Reading; My lord, I desire to know of
him, What advice he hath beard me give Mr.
Bedlow in order to his dealing ingenuously,
and my pressing of him to a full discovery of
the plot.
L. C.J. Mr. Reading, as to that, Mr. Bed*
low hath already cleared it himself, that in nil
public discourses between you and him, you did
carry it very plausibly; yet we will not preclude
you from having your witnesses speak to that,
if you will have them examined 'to it.
Reading. My lord, I will trouble sir Trevor
Williams with no more questions. »
L. C.J. You need not as to this point ; Mr,
Bedlow hath testified, that publicly you did ad*
vise hkn to make full discoveries, and spare no*
person.
Bedlow. I did say se at first, and I will do>
him justice, he did really and honestly I be^
lieve, give me that advice, as to all in public,
and only spoke about those men he was con-
cerned for, towards whom be would make me
easy.
X. C. J. Pray, Mr. Reading, will you come*
to the fact r
Reading. My lord, at the time of my being
examined before the committee, I did deliver
some papers, which I had from Mr, Bedlow,
and under his hand, and which do concern the>
evidence I am to give in my own defence ;
These I do beg the Savour may be sent tome,
to make use of them for myself, and I shall, as
soon as the Court hath looked neon them, re-
turn them again.
Bedlow. There was a proposition about iiy
in the House of Commons; and the main*
paper, which) I suppose, Mr. Reading desires
to product,, is in Mr. Clare's hand, to be pro-
duced, when called for, if the court think fit.
X. C. J. Have you it there, Mr. Clare?
Clare. Yes, my lord, I have.
X. C. J. Mr. Attorney, when tlte prisoner
calls for a paper, which he himself delivered
in, I think it is but fair it should be produced^
Att. Qen. (sir William Jonas). Yes, mf
lord, I do not oppose it.
- Sir C. Levin*. My lord, Mr. Reading must
understand, that this is no hinge from os> hue
he desires such a paper, whicli let him make
what U9e of it he can.
Bedlow. I suppose it is about the protec-
tion for Prickman.
Reading. Mr. Bedlow, if you please to an-
swer k by and by, when it is read, and let me
open it myself.
X. C. J. Here is now Mr. Sachevere) ; what,
have you to say to him ?
Mr. SkchevereL My lord, in the House of
Commons weHbiave reetfted a letter from Ma-
ll
801] STATE TRIALS, S 1 Ch ahlbs If. 1 ti79.-»7Wa/ of Nathtaiacl Reading, [29*
Rending, by which he doth desire, for his own
justification, *to have some papers sent him,
which were delivered to the Secret Committee;
J suppose he means a paper about Mr. Prick-
man, and a letter concerning him, and likewise
a paper that contained a state of the evidence
against the lords, which he pretended Mr. Bed-
low hod dictated to him : that, I suppose, Mr.
Clare hath ; for the other two, the House of
Commons hath ordered me to bring them here,
that if he can use them, or any other, in his
own defence, he may have free liberty so to do.
L C. J, Is there any other thing you would
have with Mr. Sachevercl f
Reading. Nothing, my lord; I humbly
thank him for this favour, and the House too.
L. C. J. Mr. Sacbeverel, these papers you
have brought, shall be put into the hands of
Mr. Clare, to carry to the Secret Committee,
when the trial is over.
Justice Wild. Mr. Reading, pray spare me
one word ; you are a lawyer, and you know
how to make your defence, speak ud idem, the
thing you are charged with, the tampering with
Bedlovv to take off his evidence against those
lords, or else you do nothing ; for we are not
about the plot in general, nor are you charged
with it.
Reading, My lord, I shall do nothing else ;
I shall not give you the trouble of speaking to
any thing else; my lord, Mr. Bedlow aid give
your lordship an account of the discourse that
l had with him, at the time that I had been to
wait upon my Lord Chief Justice Scruggs; I
went to him upon this occasion, Mr. Bediow de-
sired me to go wait upon my Lord Chief Justice,
to give him an account about the particular
evidence he had given ; * I think it /was against
Mr. Coleman, and that he being wiih my Lord
Chief Justice, my lord was pleased to treat
him, not as he expected from him ; whereupon
he fell into great expressions of passion, and
went down stairs, and said, It would never be
well in England, till there was an honester man
than tl.u Lord Chief Justice. When he had
told me this, I told him, at what rate bis lord-
ship had endeared himself to the whole nation,
by his zeal against the plot; however, saith be,
do me the kindness to beg my lord's pardon,
* and pray him to accept of this paper. My lord,
I was extremely sorry, that Mr. Bedlow had so
misbehaved himself; I had a great kindness
for Mr. Bedlow, I have sufficiently testified it,
and new sufficiently suffer for it : and in kind-
Bess to him, I went to wait upon my lord, and
delivered him the paper ; I told his lordship,
that I was heartily sorry, that he had carried
himself in such a manner towards his lordship,
but I did desire his lordship to pass it by, for
I did believe Mr. Bedlow was very sorry for it
My lord said, it was sufficiently known that he
was not a man of passion, but that he pitied Mr.
Bedlow, and desired he would be more careful
and discreet for the time to come, for his own
sake, and for the kingdom's; I returned to
him, and gave him this account, and what was
my lord's advice to him. My lord, when he
had his pardon a drawing, and when he wae
asked by the king and my lord chancellor,
who was bis friend ? who was bis counsel ?, he
was pleased to say, that I was his counsel, and
his friend, recommended by sir Trevor Wil-
liams, as hath been proved ; and when his ma-
jesty was pleased to ask him, what advice I
had given him ? he ret u rued the king this an-
swer; that 1 had bid him speak the truth with
courage; to spare no man, where he could
justly charge any man ; and to trust God and
his majesty for a reward. The king was pleased
to say, the advice was honest; aud bade him
follow it. What I did in this matter, I did in
friendship to him, because I had a great kind-
ness for him : 1 have supplied him with several
guineas, with a guineu or two, when he told mo
he has not had bread. He was pleased to tell
me, that he was very sensible of the service
I had done him. I appeal to him, whether
ever I saw a penny of money from him in my
life ; he was pleased to tell me, that upon the
receiving of the 5002. in the Proclamation, he
would give nie a third part, for that service I
had clone him, and would certainly repay me
whatsoever I had lent him, and the fees that
were due to me. And, lay lord, upon this I
did likewise tell him, that he had not carried
himself well, that be had been a very great
scandal, abroad and at home, and that be
would not do himself right, tilt he had advised
with Dr. Stillingfleet, Dr. Tillotson, and Dr.
Lloyd. I did advise him to go to the chapel,
and, upon conference with those worthy men,-
I desired him seriously to consider, how ho
could digest so many as- thirty sacraments,
which he had taken as obligations of secrecy ;
my lord, Mr. Wharton was at that time by, and
be hath often beard me give him advice to this
effect. Mr. Wharton undertook to go to Dr.
Stillingfleet, but he desired to be excused ; I
did then pray him to go to Dr. Tillotson ; Mr.
Bedlow told me, it was no great matter, and to
likewise for Dr. Lloyd. He told me, they werej
all mercenary men, that valued 10s. above any.
man's soul ; and at this rate he was pleased to
treat them. I told him, I was very sorry, and
displeased to hear him to speak so ill of men
of so great eminency in the world for learning
and piety. My lord, in further discoursing
with Mr. Bedlow, he told me he was overjoyed^
that his majesty had been pleased to take off
the confinement they were under, for they had
not liberty to speak to one another ; he, and
Mr. Oates, ana Mr. Dugdale; but when itwa*.
so granted, that they might now speak toge-
ther, he told me, with exceeding rejoicing, that
they could now lay their* stories together. He>
did further tell me, that he had now by him
several witnesses, that whatsoever he bid thetxv
swear, they would swear ; and he did confeaa
be had not done well in some things, particu-
larly in charging Mr. Griffith. Now, my lord*
that Mr. Griffith was. steward to Mr. Sheldon.
L. C. J. Before you go on in this kind, Mr.
Reading, I must tell yon, it is not fair : here is
oaihmadc of suc^awfoich farts agantet you, smd
293] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cools* TL im.-Jbr a Trespass and Misdemeanor. (294
you talk of discourse* between you and Mr. Bed-
low ; either produce Mr. Bedlow to say upon
his oath what be hath told you, or eke produce
some other witnesses to prove it, if you think it
material : do you think your word shaR pass
for truth, by telling this story ? all this matter
will be nothing in the case, unless you apply it
to discredit the witnesses, therefore pray pro-
duce some proof, and we will hear it ; if you
will ask Mr. 'Bedlow any questions, whereby
you may entrap him, and make him contra-
dict himself; or if you will produce any other
witnesses against him, do it ; but you must not
be suffered to go in such discourses as these,
aad spend time to no purpose.
Bedlow. My lord, if your lordship please to
give me leave, I will answer him.
L. C. J; Mr. Reading, I must toll you, I
hare as much patience as another man, and
when you are charged with a crime, which you
yourself know, and at first said, cannot be ag-
gravated, I thought it fit you should have all
fair liberty of speaking to defend yourself; I
bate had a great deal of patience to hear you
already, and so have my brothers : I canuot
say yoa have spoke unskilfully ; I confess your
defence a artificial, because it is nothing to
toe purpose : but, we must bold you to the
point ; if you can say any thing to disprove the
feet of toe S8tb, 39th, and Slat of March,
that is the w bole matter that lies upon you ; as
to all other things, they «ignifyrnothing.
Reading, My lord, if I understand any thing
in tny own defence, I did look upon this as so
ssaterial, as nothing more. My lord, when I
did find this, I appeal to Mr. Bedlow, and ask
him this question upon his oath, whether I did
set desire him, as 1 had desired him before, to
speak borne, in what he knew for troth ; that
he would do well to remember* that this land
groaned for the shedding of innocent blood ;
and whether I did not tell him, that if he
should go on to add sin to sin, and charge any
man unjustly, to take away his life, whether,
instead of preserving the nation, by which he
thought he might well deserve of it, he might
not rum it ?
1. C. J. Do you desire that he should be
asked that question ?
Reading, $&y lord, I do.
L.C. J. Mr. Bedlow, you hear the question,
pray answer it.
Bedknv. My lord, I do not deny, but that he
hath publicly given me such advice, and hath
charged me > with doing of wrong, in particular,
to Mr. Griffith ; and I do acknowledge, that
Mr. Griffith had a great deal of wrong ; but,
how was it ? It was by the mistake of them
that took him ; the uncle was taken for the
nephew, who was really concerned in the Plot,
and that occasioned his trouble : and I told
hhn I was very sorry for that.
Reading* Pray, Sir, did he give you a gold
watch?
Bedlow. Yes, be did, and I told the com-
mittee and the prince of it presently.
Justice Wild, Mr. Bedlow, you received
several sums of money from Mr. Reading, by
the oath yon have taken, were those lent to
you, or did you take them to be given ?
Bedlam. Whereas he says, That I told him I
wanted bread, it was an unreasonable thing
for me to say so, for I have five dishes of meat
every day allowed me, and, bow could I then
want bread ?
Justice Atkins. And ycu had good sums of
money too given to you.
Justice Wild. But, as I understood you, yoa
said, whenever you wanted money, he supplied
you.
Bedlow. And sometimes gave me money
when I did not ask it.
Justice Wild. But answer my question. Did
he give you that money for the intent that you
should lessen your evidence against the lords ia
the Tower ?
Bedlow, This money that I received of Mr;
Reading, he told me, that he had received
orders from She lords, that I should have what
money I came for ; that at present I could not
have any great sum, because they could not
have money, for my lord Stafford, saith he, is
selling his wood, and until that be come in, ^e
hath not wherewithal to provide for his family,
but I have order to let you have what you
want.
Justice Wild. And he gave you money after
that }— Bedlow. Yes, he did.
Justice Wild. And upon that occasion ?
• Bedlow. Yes, I thought so. And whereas
be says, my lord, that I was to pay him the
money again, I must confess he was to have
100/. a year of every 1,000/. a year of my re-
ward.
Reading. By the oath you have taken, was
that the reward ?
Bedlow. Yes, by the oath I hare taken, so it
was agreed.
L. C. J. I never koew any man go about
such a business as this without some invention
to palliate it with ; they do not use to go down-
right in suborning witnesses, and say, here is
so much money for you, pray forswear your-
self, or pray be a knave ; but, pray remember
that you speak nothing but the truth, and be
cautious that you do not swear too much ;
and so it is all gilded with pretence of the
desire of truth, but then tbey add, You shall
have a very good reward for your care in it ;
but if this way should be allowed, to bribe wit-
nesses to speak the truth, or upon colour of
speaking nothing but the truth, I cannot tell '
what will be Subornation. For it is always
done upon this pretence.
Justice Alkint. Mr. Reading, there foil
something from your own mouth that was dis-
couragement enough ; you asked him how he
could digest SO Sacraments, which he received
as obligations of secrecy, and advised him to
go to Divines to receive satisfaction about it.
That was a discouragement.
Reading. My lord, I did not mean it so ; I
did as a Christian, and a loyal subject, advise
him not to shed ionotent blood. Mr. Bedlow,
•M] CTATB TRIALS, 51 Chaelju II 1679— Drill tf N<Uhwud Heading, {W6
you bare brought me here to this bar, pray re-
member you and I must be at a greater.
Bedlow. I always remember it.
Reading, Pray, Sir, answer this question
upon your oath. Did I ever directly or indi-
rectly desire you to lessen any one syllable of
your evidence you knew to be true ?
Bedlow. 1 suppose there is no need id prove
that, for there are two oiber witnesses have
proved ic already.
Beading. But pray, Sir, answer my question
upon your oath.
Bedlow, Yes, my lord, I do upon my oath
declare, That upon my bringing the lords off
from the charge that was upon them, I was to
have such a reward, and you told me, you had
order to draw up blank deeds.
Justice Wild. Mr. Reading, pray hear roe;
he hath gone farther than that, and harh sworn
that he did lessen his evidence against White-
bread and Fen wick upon vour instigation,
which is not indeed in the indictment.
Bedlow. I did then say at the Old- Bailey (be-
cause I would not spoil the design I had upon
him, when my lord chief justice asked me, if
that were all I could say), I told him it was
all I could say at present, but in time and
place convenient I could say more.
' L. C. J. That is not the matter in question
now here, but the other witnesses have sworn
it sufficiently. The young lad swears expressly,
that he remember* bis master asked about the
kind in, Gloucestershire, and you answered
you had order to draw up a blank deed for
the settlement : and as for the other lords, you
told him, lie should have a goad reward suit-
able to the service he should do them. And
you, as to that, make no kind of defence, but
Chink we should forget it by your long discourse
to other purpose.
Reading. I would not desire to spend your
lordship's time in vain discourses. It lies
purely on my negation, and his affirmation.
Justice Wild. No, no, it is not ; here are
two more, Mr. Speke and his man, that swear
the same,
Reading. My lord, I come to that ; and I
take it for granted the law is this, that in cases
of this nature, nay, of a much less nature, no
man shall be accused but by lawful witnesses :
and, my lord, I do insist upon it as law : so is
my lord Lovelace's case, and 1 and 5 Ed. 6.
If mine is not treason, yet it n a very heinous
crime ; and I am in your lordship's judgment,
whether there is a possibility of having these,
Mr. Bedlow, and the others, to be lawful wit-
nesses. Mr. Speke, how worthy a gentleman
soever he is, is one to whom I have done par-
ticular service, I have lent him money, and to
this day have it not. That he should go, my
lord, and place himself behind an hanging,
and put a servant on a, bed, to over-hear, and
to eves- drop, which a the term of a crime in
law ; that such should pass for lawful witnesses,
my lord, 1 hope it was never pretended to
before, nor will be admitted against me : but,
sny lord, all my comfort is, that when 1 went
(
to him, I did never propound such a thing to
Mr. Bedlow since I was bom. And God deal
with me here, and iu the next world, accord-
ing to the integrity of my heart, and the truth
of what I speak now. Yesterday sevennight,
when I did not hope to see another Sunday, so
spent I was with the barbarous usage I have
received, I did desire Dr. Tillotson to give me
the Sacrament, for I did not expect to bvt till
the next morning. And I did pray him to re-
member, against the time when he and I were
to meet before the great God, that what I was
charged with in this indictment, is as expressly
raise, as ever any thing was sworn against an
innocent roan. I can but say this now, come life,
come death, the will of his majesty and of your
lordships be done. There never stood a more
innocent man at this bar than 1 am of this fact
I am charged with. And I do ,say, my lord,
that having said this, I most, with your favour,
proceed to tell you, that I desire Mr. Bedlow
will be pleased but to give an answer to these
two questions, and I have done. Pray, Sir, by
the oath you have taken, did you lay in provi-
sions of fire, coal, and billets behind the Pals*
grave's-head tavern, and hard by Charing*
Cross, to burn the city of Westminster?
L. C. J. Mr. Reading, we must see justice
done on all sides : if you oner to ask him any
question upon his oath, to make him accuse
himself, we must oppose it.
Justice Dolben. He hath his pardon, mj
lord, and it ought not to be objected against
hitn, if so.
Reading. Tlie pardon of the king doth remit
the punishment, but it doth not hinder its beiu*v>
objected to invalidate his testimony.
L. C. J. It doth so far set him right, that yosx
shall not make him calumniate himself.
Justice Wild. No, you should never object
it against him to accuse himself*
L. C. J* Mr. Reading, we are in a court of
law, and you are skilled in the law ; you bavo>
no evidence to defend yourself by, and so yotx .
think your protestations must serve for evi-
dence r when that will not serve your turn,
you strive to lead us out of the way. Upon
this question to Mr. Bedlow there lies this di-
lemma against you : either he batb bis pardoea
for what you object against him, or he featta
not: if be hatb not his pardon, then be is in
danger of death for the crime, and must not;
accuse himself ; if he hath his pardon, it doth
take away as well all calumny as liaMenesa to
punishment, and sets him right against aH okW
jectioo. So, you know, after an act of general
pardon, it is a scandal to reproach a man for
that which he is thereby pardoned for. So that*
if he have not his pardon, his life is in dinner j
if be hath, neither bis life nor name must saltans*,
and therefore such questions most not bo
asked him. But if you have any other queaw
lions that are pertinent to the business, pro-
pound them, and they shall be heard and
swered.
Heading. My lord, I took the law to
thatno man should be aocused but>y lawful
297] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles I J. 1679.— Jfcro Trespass and Misdemeanor. [29t
witsessts, w bich I took him not to be, though k
be hath his pardon.
L. C\ J. I understand lawful witnesses, or
accusers, to be such whose testimony is not
taken away by tbe law ; if a man stauds so in
coort that be cannot be received to give evi-
dence, be is no lawful witness ; as if a man be
convicted of perjury, he is not a lawful witness,
bscaase be cannot be heard at all. But every
thing that lessens tbe credit of his testimony
deth not make but that he is a lawful witness ;
for I take him to be a lawful witness as long as
he can be beard at ail. And, as for the eves*
dropping wbich you from the term of law
would iafer a scandal upon Mr. Spoke ; I take
it to be a tbing that makes much for the credit
of the gentleman. For he was not tbe man
that did first detect you, you were detected
before by Mr. Bedlow ; and as it stood only
apou bis testieaony, should you deny it, it was
bat your negation and bis affirmation; and
therefore it concerned him (being a deed of
darkness in its own nature, when he engaged
hifnaeuT by bis discourse as much as you) to
ba»e some of unquestionable integrity and
credit to detect you further in it, and for bis
own i indication. And it is therefore a credit
to Mr. Speke that be wss thought inch a
penon, whose credit was not to be suspected,
and so was set to convict you. So thut it is so
far from detracting from his credit, that it
shews him a roan reputed to be of undoubted
integrity.
Bedlam. I say this, my lord, we did design to
panose it to another gentleman of quality, who
had been before acquainted with the design in
general, but we could .not find him out to ac-
quaint biu> with it.
Speke. As for what be says of money be lent
sue, I will acquaint your lordship bow it was.
There was a double return in the case of my
brother's election for this parliament, and he
and the other gentlemen that stood with him
(for there were, four returned) had gotten order
sot the hearing of their cause, and 1 bad taken
a copy oat before, and paid tir. Bd. for it
or thereabouts, and afterwards Mr. Reading
eosaee to my chamber and brings me another
order, and I told him I had one already, and
asked hun what be paid for it, he told me 10*.
Now I knew it was but 6*1* Sd. for I had
paid so be/ore: said I, what need I have ano-
ther? but I suppose my brother will pay you.
I had before recommended him to my brother,
la manage bis business in parliament, and I did
desire be migbt be of counsel for him. I knew
abet passed concerning tbe treaty between Mr.
Bedlow and aim daily ; hut because he should
not sospect me, I did carry myself very fcirry
and friendly to him, and, as. I said, I desired
my brother to employ fai'», and let biro be of
his counsel ; bat my brother refused, and told
me be would have nothing to do with him ; for,
said hey I bear an ill character of him. And
the 10*; for tbe order is tbe money he speaks of.
L. C. X Is that aU the money be leal you ?
^eAr.YeY,thajtkasV.
Justice Atkins. Mr. Reading, this I must say
to you, your aspersiou of these persons with
being eves-droppers, is no aspersion at all. For
it was necessary for Mr. Bedlow to take this
course, and it was prudent for him to make use
of unsuspected persons to have it understood
by the mouth of more than one witness what
your practices were. For if he had not done
it, and it bad been otherwise discovered, he had
been in the same danger that you are in now.
Reading. My lord, 1 have done. Since Mr
Speke hath been pleased to give you an ac*
countof this matter, I desire I may ask him
one question : Whether be did not come to mt
to be of the counsel with his brother ?
X. C. J. He hath said so already.
Reading. Did not you bring thi* gentleman,
your brother, to my chamber?
Soeke, Yes, I did.
Reading. Did not you desire me to draw up
his case ?
Speke. Yes, I think I did.
Reading. I spent most of a whole morning
in it : Pray did I ever receive a peony of money
of you ?
Speke. No. I spoke to my brotlier to em-
ploy you, but be said he liad heard an ill cha-
racter of you, and he would have nothing to
do with you. And you asked ten shillings for
an order which I had before for 6$. and Hd.
Reading. Here is thisgentieman, Mr. Hayes,
who had heeu a clerk there, and knows it to
be ten shillings every order.
L. C.J. It is not at all pertinent to the busi-
ness we ore upon.
Reading. He hindered roe from receiving a
lee from the other side, and 1 am twenty shillings
out of pocket, and yet am thus treated for
my kiodness. There were three orders I paid
for.
Speke. There were more concerned than my
brother : You delivered hut one to me, I know-
not how many you delivered to the rest.
Wild. I am sorry you disgrace your profes-
sion by making so weak a a defence. What say
you to that which past on Saturday moroing at
Mr. Bed low's ?
Reading. Mr. Bedlow did desire me to go to
the Lords in the Tower, to tell them lhat be was
caUed^upon to give in his. evidence against them
and that he c«u Id delay it no longer; and be
bid me tell them, that is to say, wy lord Stafr
font, my lord Powis, and my lord Petre, that
if they did not assure him of a good reward, he
would give in such an evidence against them aj
should take away their live*, and he had wit-
nesses to do it, as well as he himself; buj he
btd me tell them, if they would give him a re-
ward, he would put in such an evidence as
would do them, no hurt at all -
Justice Wild. This is directly against you,
and within the words of the indictment ; *|is a
contracting with him for a, reward to lessen bis
evidence against the fouc lords. He told you,
as you say, thus, and thus, and you agreed to
da as be said.
Doiken. You do speak the truth plainly tew.
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679 Trial tfNathnneel Reading, [300
fing. My lor d, I do say this, that what I
d is true; in the presence of God I speak
e lords do know this, and the Lord of
doch know it, he proposed it first to me.
ze Atkins. It is to no purpose to Calk
'ou can prove it.
. J. Call your witnesses, and w? will
mi. Will the jury gire in their verdict
ur bare assertion f We have heard you
while ; if you will call any witnesses, do.
rames Builtr. My lord, I desire Mr.
5 may be asked, whether 56 guineas
>t brought by him to Mr. Bedlow, and
him fur to lessen his evidence against
ds.
)w. I had sometimes two guineas, some-
lire, but not any such great sum at once,
>elieve more, at several times ; and he
that he had order to supply me at any
th what I waned.
. J. Come, where are your witnesses,
ading ?
'ing. Here is Mr. Palmer, my lord,
vas sworn.] My lord, I desire this gen-
may give you an account what Mr.
did say to mi concerning the borrow-
any moneys upon- the Tuesday morning
[ was clapped up : The 30th of March,
e it, in the morning.
:e Atkins, That was Sunday.
ing. It was on Tuesday, my lords, the
ore he received the 500/. I believe it
first or second of April. My lord, this
an was there in the room.
er. My lord, Mr. Bedlow at that time
inty shillings in his hand of his mother's,
(aid : Mr. Reading came in, said he,
ading, all my money is gone, and I have
•e than this, and this I have borrowed
toe her; with that Mr. Reading clapped
d in his pocket, and gave bim two
God-a-mercy, saith Mr. Bedlow,
\ an honest man, and my chief foun-
r. LevinM. When was this money deli-
er. It was about three weeks ago.
* Wild, But he tells you, you were to
rap out of this fountain.
J. He doth prove this (what nse you
ie of it I know not,) That on Tuesday
eeks ago, which we find to be the first
I, he saw twenty shillings in Mr. Bed*
ind, and he said, This is aU the money
and you clapped your hand into your
and gave him two guineas, and he
od-a-mercy, you are my chief foun-
;e Atkins, This was after you saw Mr.
was for your turn. This makes against
ing. I desire he may be asked, whe-
bath not heard Mr. Bedlow confess that
had money several times from me.
J. Mr. Bedlow hath confessed it.
\ng. I desire hiin to tell, whether Mr.
did not confess, tbtt he dtd lay fuel
behind the Palsgrafe-Head tavern to burn
Westminster.
Bedlow, I acknowledge it ; that was part of
the treason I was guilty of, and for which the
king pardoned me.
Reading, I desire to ask Mr. Bed low's man
♦one question ; Whether your master, when I
went along with him to feich the privy-se al for
the 500/., did not desire me to lend him money
for the privy- seal ?
Wiggins, He said he had no money about
him, and asked you if you had any, and desir-
ed you would lend* him some ; and then I said
I bad some, and so he said no more.
Reading. Was there any thing of the consi*
deration spoken of?
Wiggins, I do not know that, I could not
hear it. He spoke it in the open court, where
there were a great many by.
Reading. I have several other witnesses,
that will give you an accouut, that when he
hath not had any money to pay a reckoning,
he hath had it from me at several times ; and
the very day when lie had got this money, the!
500/., and it was laid upen the table in the
room, in the tavern where he was, he did then
desire me to let him have a guinea for to paj
the reckoning ; and he would pay me in the
afternoon.
Bedlow. I do not deny it, but that I have
received several sums of money, for he always
told me, I must trouble nobody else wbeu I
wanted money, but him.
Justice Atkins. They who have to deal with
men of such art as you are of, must use some
art with you.
Justice Wild. Did you ever promise to pay
him back the money again ?
Bedlow. No, my lord, but he was to have a
hundred pounds a year out of every thousand
pounds a year that I should have from them
lords.
Reading. My lord, I do here declare, that
I never had any more from the lords in the
Tower, than thus : I had from my lord Stafford
six guineas, and I do not know I had one more;
I bad never from ray lord Bellasis more than
two guineas ; nor from my lord Petre than fire,
and that was at the time when I carried liim
the paper, which I will give your lordship an ac-
count of, by and by. I never spoke to my lord
Arundel, though I met him often ; nor wick
my lord Powis, than upon this account : Mr.
Bedlow did desire me to go and tell the lords
in the Tower, That if they did well reward him,
he would make the charge be had against them
very easy. My lord, I did tell him, Tbia is an
affair which I cannot in prudence deal in, for,
said I, you are a designing man, and how you will
deal with me afterwards I do nut know. Said
he, It is in your power, Mr. Reading, by this
that I have said, to do me a mischief, because
if you do discover what I have said to you, you
will be believed, but if I should offer this
against you, I shall never be believed. And
with all Uie imprecations in the world I do>
curse myself, if I did directly or indirectly o£>
Sol] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cubist IL 1619.— M a Trespass and Misdemeanor. [302
fer to persaade him to diminish his evidence,
bat he proposed it to me. But, said I, here i$
one Mr. Dugdale, and he may give evidence
against my lord Stafford, though you do not,
and what will you do as to him.? Believe me,
said he, that I deal intireiy with you, by this
token : Did not Dugdale come to y»u to desire
too to draw up his evidence? And so he did,
my lord, and told me he would be responsible
for it. I told him I was unwilling to meddle
with such an affair, but if he would come to
my chamber I would give him what leisure I
bad, in order to the drawing up of his evidence
into a method ; but he never came. Mr. Bed-
low told roe, said he, Believe me in all the rest
by this token, have a care of him, he is set on
purpose to ensnare you. Saith he, Tell from
ne, he shall do him no harm, for he hathpro-
s*j$ed to say nothing against my lord Stafford,
bat what I will have him to say. I desire Mr.
Bedlow will answer this upon his oath : Did I
ever know one Nicholas Jordan till you ac-
quainted me with him ? Had not he some es-
tate it* Gloucestershire ?
Beilos. Yes, my lord, I did tell Mr. Read-
i«£ mat I would have such an estate settled
opoD ne, of my lords, in Gloucestershire, and
Im words to me were these : That he had or-
der to draw blank deeds for the conveying of
that estate, which my lord would sign in ten
days after his discharge.
Reading. He told me, that for the other
witnesses, be would do well enough with them,
and desired me to tell my lord Stafford, that he
would do so and so, let him have but a reward;
and believing of it, I went tonne Tower, I ask-
ed my lord Stafford if he knew one Nicholas
Jordan; he told me he did, he had been a
tenant of some estate of his. Mr. Bedlow bid
ue ask him, whether he should not have a pro-
vision of money secured to him out of that
farm. My lord, I told him I would acquaint
b's lordship with it.' I did so, and my lord
Stafford was pleased to tell me, that he would
not ghre him sixpence ; that he did value him-
self upon his own tnnocency, and the infamy of
his accusers ; that if he should offer to give him
aay thing, he should look upon it,as the greatest
yart of his guilt. But, said he to me, Mr. Read-
ing, this I most confess, you have been often
with me, I am much indebted to you for fees
for coming to me, if yon will but write a letter
to me, that you are not able to attend my bu-
sroesa, and neglect other men's, at this rate of
being paid; and that therefore I should not
take it ill that you do not come to me any more,
unless you may have an assurance of being sa-
tisfied and rewarded for it. And, saith he,
thereupon I will write you this in answer, That
I will give you the sum of 300/. to be paid to
yra within ten days after my acquittal ; and,
Ustbhe, I will sire yon this assurance too, that
J0U shall have this 800/. secured to you, as soon
w ever yon shall desire it. My lord, this being
lie mm;, hut withal remember, saith he at the
aune tune, I do here declare, and pray do no*
U of remembering *h that I will sot, directly
nor indirectly, promise Mr. Bedlow sixpence.
I went to my lord Pimis, from whom I never
saw sixpence in my life, and he did declare to
me, that he woufd not for any thing in the
world he guilty of the making him a promise of
one sixpence (and this is certainly so); never-
theless, if Mr. Bedlow will not go on to do me
a mischief, as hitherto he hath done, and shall
not go on to charge me unjustly, when I am
acquitted, he shall find that I will do what shall
he like a gentleman ; but 1 won't promise one
farthing.
L. C. J. You have said enough, Mr. Reading.
Reading. My lord Petre said he would give
never a farthing.
Justice Wild. This is against yourself.
Reading. I cannot help it, I did it to save
innocent blood, God's will he done with mine,
I think 1 was bound to do this, and I had sinned
against God Almighty and my country if I had
not done it. My lord, I did come back to Mr.
Bedlow, and he did ask me if I had been with
the lords in the Tower ; I did tell him, Yes ;
and I did ask him whether there was any body
in the bed by him. He asked me, What say
the lords? I think I did tell him in very little
different terms from what I have now told you,
be it of what construction it will. And whereas
he says, that there was a thousand pounds and
writings to be drawn, I never opened my mouth
to him of such a thing.
L. C. J. What say you to the estate in
Gloucestershire ?
Reading. That was only to secure the 900/.
to me, ' pro consilio impenso et impendendo.'
My lord, when that was done, Mr. Bedlow was
pleased to tell me, for 1 must confess, he did de- .
*irc me to give him an account, and I did come
very late, as Mr. Speke says. I was in his
chamber about an hour; it seems it was that
time that this gentleman, as he says, was there,
hut Mr. Bedlow not being at home, I went
away ; and being to give him an account next
morning, it seems this gentleman was there
also, for he hath sworn it ; when I cairie I gave
him this account, and God knows it was no
other ; nor did I ever hear talk of any deeds
drawing.
Speke. Did not you nay, that the deed was
to be signed in ten days ?
Reading. I did tell him, that my lord would
give me a letter, wherein be would promise me
to secure the payment of 200/. within ten days
after his acquittal.
Speke. I say what you said. You had orders
to draw up a deed, from my lord of Stafford ;
which my lord had promised faithfully to seal
within ten days after be was discharged.
Reading. It was only a deed for 200/. to be
paid to me ' pro consilio impenso et impen-
• dendo ;' and to be secured upon that estate
in Gloucestershire.
Speke. Nay, I do not know ; I heard no
Latin there.
L. C. J. But what is that to Mr. Bedlow r
Justice Wild. Why should yon discourse
. with Mr. Bedlow about your pension?
103} STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1C70.— Trial tf Nathanael Reading, [9o4
Reading. My lord Stafford did say, When
you have the money, the 200/. do you dispose
ef it as you think fit.
L. C. /. This is nothing to the purpose, but
-an endeavour, by multiplicity of words, to mate
us forget what has been sworn. Answer the
matter of the paper w hereby the evidence was
lessened.
Reading. My lord, upon this Mr. Bedlow
was pleased to tell me thus in answer: That he
would take their lordships' words; and bid me
go along with him, and he would go fetch that
evidence that he had, and would put in such
and such evidence, I should write, and he should
dictate. I went along with him to York-build-
ings, where he said his mother lay : and there
he said he had left his papers; but when he
eame there, they were not there, but he told
me his memory should serve; and we went
back to die chamber. And, my lord, it seems
these geutlemen were there before, and Mr
Bedlow sent them away ; and when they were
gone, we went into a room together, where be
did dictate to me every syllable I wrote.. And
when he had dictated, and I had writ it, I read
it, and he read it again himself. And having
perused it, he said, Tins is that which, I think,
is kind to them; and this is that I can come off
with well enough in saying it ; for I can make
it out afterwards, that it was by hearsay. And
this, saith he, do you take along with you, and
carry it to the lords, and let me have their an-
swer. And this is that very paper that I did
write in Mr. Bed low's chamber uy his direc-
tions, and dictated from his mouth.
Justice Atkins. And you did carry it to the
lords ?
Reading. Yes, I did. And, my lord, when
I had done this, I did ask him this question (I
did not direct him any one syllable ; but as he
dictated, so 1 wrote)': what he had to say
again &t my lord Bellasis, and my lord Arundel?
He toM me, that though he was resolved to be
kind » to those lords, yet he was resolved the
other should d;e. And he told fne, That \he
4,000/. and the 1,500/. that was to be paid to
•ir Qeorqe Wakeman, was to be paid by my
lord Bellasis. And, my lord, I began to write,
smd did write nve or six lines here in* this
paper, and then left off. My lord, when I had
done this, I went to the Tower the first oppor-
tunity; I did come to my lord Stafford, and I
§ hewed him this. He told me, That he did
find that Mr. Bedlow would now begin to be
mo honest man. My lord, afterwards I went
t* my lord Petre, and shewed it to him ; and
be did, at that time, mv lord, give me 6v*
guineas} and before that 1 never saw a penny
ef his moaey m my life. I went to my lord
Powie, and when 1 came, I found sir Henry
Tichbum in the chamber ; nnd it being late at
nighty and it being parliament-time, and 1 hav-
iejg persons that staid lor me, I eld desire to
oe excused : though sir Henry was pleased to
vfsifc opt up©* tee leads, leaving my lord and
sne together, yet did not I shew him any one
syllable el lias paper, ae* did I tw/ any firing
to him concerning it. My lord, I think it was
upon the Monday morning that I came to Mr.
Bed low's : be was not within ; I then came to
the Painted Chamber, and I was going up to
the House of Lords, and Mr. Bedlow inetjne
in the Court of Requests, or the Painted
Chamber, one of them, and this gentleman *
was with him. And there he asked me for a
paper : I had writ it out before, and it is this
very paper that is now with Mr. Clare. He
did desire me, after I had been with the Lords9
to deliver a copy of this to them to write it out:
and I did so; and this is writ in the third per-
son, the other was writ iu the first person ; and,
I think, there is no other alteration in it. My
lord, that which I did deliver to this gentlemen
Mr. Bedlow, before Mr. Speke, was in the first
person, the other was in the third. What they/
did with it afterwards, I cannot tell. My \oi,\
after this the 500/. was received, and be pro-
mised to pay me all the neit morning, and
prayed me that 1 would come to his chamber.
But when I came I missed of him. His clerk
told me, he was gone abroad. I came here to
Westminster; and when I came there, I went
up to the Speaker's chamber, to speak with
my clients there : but when I came up, the
door was fastened, and I was arrested. My
lord, I have done; and let it be with me, or
against me, this is what 1 snid to the Com-'
mittee of Secrecy; and I speak to yoor lord-
ship under the greatest tie and obligation to
speak truth, in the world, that this is al! I
know. And whereas Mr. Bedlow did t& your
lordship, that this wriring that I have drawn
was not as he directed, but that I had carried
it to the lords, and their lordships did correct
it, and I brought it back again; that I did
bring him another paper : that very copy wbieb
I writ our, in the chamber^ in the third per-
son, I have ,' and this that it produced against
mo, is the first person, and t desire your lord-
ships to look upon k9 and judge whether there
be any correction, more than the alteration of
the person.
[Then both die Papers were shewn td Mr.
Bedlow.l
Bedlcm. Yoor lordships may see both the**
papers are fair written, wit hoot interlining ; belt
there were above forty interhneations in trra*
paper that was written in my chamber.
L. C. J. This agrees with whet yoe said be-
fore, that when yon did put in any thing that
was home, he would correct it, and svyr etfie>
is treason, end this will charge them ; and so
mended it. And it was natnraf there should
be two papers: that which- was to be kept for*
the Lords, was in the third person, in^ortrnfk
that he saith so and so ; aad the other wee ii*
the first person*, which was- to be fcept by Mr.
Bedlow, for the helping of his memory, t he*tn#
so and so * that be might know how ro etomreeT
his cent fact. But what say yon to this, tbsrtf the*
first paper was, as Mr. Bedlow says, corv*eot^
ed, aad had many mterfhreetrttna, and eaotttvtv
therefore, be tbe same with that yo* produced
*Q»j STATE TRIALS, 3) Charles D. \m.—Jor a Trtepojs m>d Mitdanemnor. [80*
Mt*ding. My levd* I hear it; I have but
. is thing to answer, let it avail me any thing
or nothing. I speak it in the presence of God,
(pcay fevoor me) this paper is the very paper
tout I did write out ; there is no other inter-
lioeajriofi ia it than what yon see. It never
went oat of my hand, from the time of my
writing it in Mr. Bedlow's chamber, till the
time that I shewed it them in the Tower, and
I did deliver it to Mr. Sacheverel.
Justice Wild. Ay, but there was another
paper, there was a paper corrected according
to yonr intention ; and then you caused this
paper to be wrote oat, and it was never seen
Reading. No other, upon my word.
Jostle* Wild. But he swears it, and it is ob-
to the least understanding here. '
Reading. My lord, I bare only this to say,
That k is not true.
L. C- J- But it is very probable, and it is
sworn to bo true,
Regdine;. I can only say, It is not tree.
Justice Wild. 1 have one thing to say to yon :
with whet colour could you justify what you did
to carry the king's evidence to the prisoners, if
it ware oo more than that ?
Reading. I have but this answer for that, I
Si not know it was a crime.
Jestke Wild. There is no mean capacity but
what knows that it is a crime.
Reading. I did look upon it as a crime if I
had not done it, and ' Conscientia erraot ligat,'
it wet • point of conscience to me to do it. I
dW think its duty I owed to God, to prevent
perjury ; nod a duty I owed to my country, to
prevent innocent blood.
L. C. J. Will you impeach the justice of the
kingdom in that manner? You are a man of the
law, don't you know, that no man ought to be
of counsel for a prisoner in felony or treason,
Cul they arc assigned? And for you to carry the
king's evidence to the prisoner, as you yourself
bow can you excuse it ? And here are
that heard you contract with him to
his evidence, and cui bono f Was not
this out of favour to the lords in the Tower, to
get them off ? Now you by multiplying your
dtscemrse, instead of vindicating yourself have
spoiled the matter, and confessed that which
•mottoes to the whole charge.
Joatice^l/ciRr. And you confess you -were to
have, two hundred pounds from my Lord Staf-
ford, which you were to distribute as you thought
*t?
Justice Jones. And you have confessed, Mr.
Heading, that nqt only you have endeavoured
to take off Mr. fiedlow, but Mr. Dugdale too ;
for it was you first started that point.
Reading. My Lord, I have no more. I did
never desire him to. speak one word less than
the troth; hot I did my endeavour to prevent
aerjury, and the shedding of innocent blood;
•ad ifais I did as n good christian. My Lord
I did desire also to shew you this paper, but
Jta *m pleated to -over-rule it, that it should
mbemd.
vox. YJI.
L. C. J. We think it not material ; we over-
rule it not, but by way of admittance that yon
say true. y *
Reading. Pray, will you see, is there any va-
riance between the two papers ?
L. C. J. There is ouly the addition of the
words concerning my lord Bellasis, and that
was to strike terror in him, to make him come
into the bargain too.
Reading. 'J desire Mr. Bedlow would look
upon this paper also ; is this your writing, Sir ?
Bedlow. Yes, it is.
Reading. Since your giving roe this paper
in your chamber, have you ever seen it till to*
day?
Bedlow. No, I have not.
Reading. Then, my Lord, I pray this ; there
is one Prickman a merchant in town that is
broke, he wrote to me for a protection, and I
desired Mr. Bedlow that he would help him to
a protection ; he said he would, and spoke to
the prince, and others of the lords, but could
not get one, for I called upon him to know his
answer ; but withal, told me, he had a better
contrivance than any protection could be given
him from a single lord, and that is this, that he
would say, he was one of his witnesses, and that
upon that account he would get him a protec-
tion from the committee of secrecy, and they
would believe whatever he said to them. I told
him I did not know of what signification that
might be to my friend ; he tola me, yes, for he
had given it to several already. I asked him,
how he could justify it, if it were1 questioned!
Oh, said he, let him say any thing, that he hath
heard some body or other, in a coffee-house, call
me rogue. My Lord, I never saw Mr. Prick-
man since ; but saith, here, I will give you this
business for the protecting of him; and he
under- writ this, as from Mr. Treby ; ' Pray, do
not fail to come to me every hour, to receive
what orders the committee shall send to you by
me, that we may not neglect his majesty's spe-
cial business ; and if you do receive any let or
hindrance, by any person whatsoever, send to
me, and I will cause those people to be so se-
verely punished, as so great a contempt does
merit/ This was, my Lord, before my treat-
ing with the lords, m time, the 25th of March.
My Lord, when I did find he had got such
tricks and ways, I did apprehend and resolve
(pray give me your » favour in the expression)
not to do any prejudice to the king's evidence ;
for my Lord, I do think he is not an evidence
for the king, that does go about, by any indi-
rect means, to commit a crime. But, my Lord,
I think he is a servant to the nation and does
a very good piece of service to the king, that
goes about the taking away the guilt of innocent
blood.
X. C. J. Indeed, Mr. Reading, we must not
suffer this : I told you before, that by such dis-
course you impeached the justice of the king-
dom. If you had suspected Mr. Bedlow's ho-
nesty or truth, you should have gone to the
king or council, or the secret committee {they
are men of honour, and would hove been as
X
SOT] STATE TRIALS, 31 Ouiilei U. 1619.— Trial cf Nathanael Reading, [90S
tender of mens lives, as you or an^r other man,
but for you to do it of yourself, in this way,
shews it' is but for a plausible eicuse to colour
your, corrupt dealing.
Bedlow. This protection was given us by the
secret committee, for Mr. Prickman.
L. C. J. It does not appear but that Prick-
man might be a witness.
Reading. My Lord, I have but this, and I
have done. At the time when I was taken, I
have several witnesses to prove it, that I was
raaolved to give his majesty, or the secretaries,
an account of it ; and I did ask Mr. Bed low
for an account he had given against the queen ;
and I had the paper by me, at the same time
when I was taken : and I have several witnesses
ay me, to prove that at that time
X. C. J. Mr. Reading, this is nothing to the
purpose ; will you have done? unless you can
speak to the fact you are charged with. The
Court hath had a great deal of patience with
you already.
"Reading. I have done, my Lord.
X/C f. Gentlemen of the jury, your pa-
tience hath been very much exercised already
by the long discourses Mr. Reading hath made;
I shall therefore be short in ray directions. He
' stands indicted for suborning Mr. Bedlow, in
the evidence that he was to give, concerning the
Lords fn the Tower, that were impeached of
treason by the House of Commons and Sir
Henry Tichburn. This is the substance of the
Indictment. There is an inducement in it con-
cerning this horrid conspiracy, and the persons
that have been executed for it, Coleman, Grove,
and Ireland ; but as to that, it is admitted by
Mr. Reacting, and ic lies so much in every one's
knowledge, that it should hardly need to be
proved. So then the question remains only a
question of fact, .concerning subornation of per-
jury; which hath been fully proved to you, not
only by Mr. Bedlow, who hath related the
whole transaction, but also by Mr. Speke, who
tells you that Mr. Bedlow did inform him how
it went from time to time: and thereupon, to
make the matter plain, and to suppress so abo-
minable a practice, it was thought there was no
better way to discover this deed of darkness,
and to catch a knave, but to bring him into a
secret place where he might speak freely, think-
ing there were no witnesses to testify against
him ; which was intended to have been done the
evening of the 88th of March, which was Friday.
But Mr. Reading and Mr. Bedlow not then
meeting, the next morning at seven o'clock was
appointed, when Mr. Reading did come and
asked if nobody were there ; of which being
assured, he thought himself secure and secret.
Then Mr. Bedlow asked him, what say the
Lords in the Tower? What says my lord
Stafford? Mr. Reading told him, that as to
my lord Stafford, he should be sure of the
estate in Gloucestershire, for my lord Stafford
had ordered him to prepare a blank deed,
whicfi, within ten days after his discharge,
should be perfected. And the rest of the
lerds did assure hira, Thai after tbey were ac-
quitted in proportion to the service ha did them,
in lessening of his evidence, he should have a
very plentiful reward. Thereupon, there arose
farther discourse. Saitb Mr. Bedlow, I will
not rely upon their promise, I will have some-
thing uuder their hands. No, saith Mr. Read-
ing, that they think not convenient. Saith
Mr. Bedlow, I must go and deliver in my tes-
timony to the secret committee immediately,
and therefore, Mr. Reading, the writing must
be made presently, or nothing can be done.
Why, saith Mr. Reading, cannot you put it off
till Wednesday ? No, I cannot, says he. Well
then, said Mr. Reading, 1 will go speak with
the lords itf the Tower, and I will bring you
their answer, and be with you on Monday
morning. Afterwards when they went oat of
the boose, Mr. Speke, and the other witness',
came from the places where they were privately
put, and they saw Mr. Reading going out. Mr.
Heading and Mr. Bedlow, within half an hour,
came back again to the house, and were pri-
vate together. Upon Monday morning, Mr.
Speke was to watch, and sec the delivery of
this paper, and he gives you a very rational -
and distinct account, (and he is not a man that
the prisoner can any way impeach in his credit)
he tells you, He saw him deliver the paper out
of his hand to Mr. Bedlow, and Mr. Bedlow
put it towards his pocket, but afterwards put it
behind him, and he followed him, and took it out
of his hand. And this paper is here, which
contains the purport of the evidence to be
given against the Lords in the Tower ; but so
minced, that it is ail but hearsay, and nothing
will touch them, as to the matters for which
they are charged s Here you have the paper
under his own hand-
Now he comes to make his defence ; and
what hath he done ? He hath made a very Ions;
discourse, but no defence at all to the matter
of the indictment. He says nothing against
the credit of the witnesses, but hath confessed,
in effect, the whole matter that be was charged
with ; for what hath he to do, to carry the
evidence to the lords in the Tower, and to go
from one to another, to tell them thus and
thus, and to receive promises from them of
rewards, either in general or particular r He
hath made confession of the whole of his
charge in the Indictment; and without it,
there is such undoubted testimony, nothing
impeaching the witnesses, that I shall need te>
trouble you no further. Do you go together,
and consider 6f it, and we will receive your
verdict.
L. C. Baron. Gentlemen of the jury, it
hath been so fully repeated by my Lord, that I
shall not need to do any thing of that; but
there is one little piece of the evidence, which
I desire you wouia take notice of: Mr. Bed-
low says, the paper given him upon Monday*
in the Painted Chaml>er, which he catfied be*
hind him, and Mr. Speke took away, and which
Mr. Reading brought him from the lords, did
contain ten times much milder evidence thai*
the paper dictated by him on the Saturday*
309) STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or a Trespass and Misdemeanor. [510
and that paper was forty times less than that
which be Dad given io to the secret Committee.
Just. Wild. [To sir John Culler.] Sir John,
What paper is that you have in youf hand ?
Sir Mm Cutler, It is only the names of
the jury, my Lord.
Z. C. J. Yon do well to take the names of
the jury with yon, if you withdraw, that you
may know * one another : But I suppose you
will not he long Out.
Just. Wild. I spoke it, because you are to
have no papers with you> but what are under
Then the jory withdrew, and after a short
recess, return again to the bar, and being called
by their names, severally answered.
CI. cf the Cr. Gentlemen, are you all
speed of yoar verdict ?
Ofcsaes. Yes.
Ci. cf the Cr. Who shall say for you r
Gamer. Our foreman.
CL cf the Cr. How say you* is Nathanael
Reading Guilty of the offence whereof he stands
indicted, nr Not Guilty ?
Foremen. Guilty.
CI cf the Cr. This is four verdict ; you
say, that Nathanael Reading is Guilty of the
enence whereof he stands indicted, and so you
sajall?
Just. Wild. It is a very good verdict
L. C. J. It is a very good verdict, the mat-
ter lay in a small room, and I wonder how Mr.
Keadjog could make it so long.
Just. Atkins, He was the greatest witness
against himself.
L. C. J. You of the jury may take your ease.
Then the court adjourned till two of the
dock, being then half an hour past one.
About half an hour after, the court returned
again ; and proclamation being made for at-
tendance, the Lord Chief Justice spoke to the
prisoner convicted then standing at the bar,
JL C J. Mr. Beading, von have been here
upon your trial to-day, and yon are convicted
of sv very great and heinous crime ; there re-
mains nothing now, but to receive the judgment
of the law : and the rale of law is, that in all
the court should consider ' quantitation
et quafitatem persona,' and accordingly
nee their judgment.
As to the quantity of the offence, you your-
?lfdid admit in the beginning of your defence
let it was not capable of aggravation, but look*
rather like treason than a misdemeanour; and
» I shall not speak to that, for any flourishes
vaajrf hut sound in diminution of it.
Then we h»ve nothing to consider, but the
pshtjoftbe person ; and of that there might
JtTfreat deJ ***<*> >f ?c 27?" TOOrJPeraon
Htfifrver, oh* that should be anian ofknow-
k«t7be able to advise, a minister of jus-
™"*Mt the court wherein be pleads ; and
ought to be a person of untainted fidelity, that
he may keep his client's secrets; and for a
lawyer to be convicted for such an offence, is
that which aggravates it beyond all expression,
and I think we can do no less to evidence the
care we have of the king's people, than .to shew
that there shall be greater severity used against
such persons offending ; and it is a great credit
and benefit to the profession, that the members
of it for such offences shall be dealt with more
severely, than we should deal in any other
case : so far will we be from lessening it in this
respect. For I would have no man of the pro*
fession of the law, that should do thus, be able
afterwards to draw people to him to trust him
with their business; but his offence should be
publicly known to all the world, that men
might know him, and not employ him. In
one sense, it is true, he may be trusted with a
secret, by the same reason that a known War
may be, because his word is never to be, be*
lieved.
There is another thing that we regard ia
your person too ; if you were a man ota great
fortune, or a large estate, I do not see but we
should set that, which might be called a Ran*
som, rather than a fine, in this case ; bat it'
not being so, we have taken it into our consi-
deration to do it with measure ; but we will
supply that defect, by a punishment of another
nature, according to the old saying, * qui noa
habet in crumena luat in cornore/
Therefore the judgment of the court is this,
" That you be fined 1,000/. that you be impri-
soned for the space of one year; and that upon
Monday next, between the hours of eleven and
twelve, you beset in the pillory, for the space
of one hour, in Palace-yard in Westminster.
And I will tell you, your offence is so great
and hath such a relation to that which the
whole nation is concerned in, because it was an
attempt to baffle the evidence of that conspi-
racy, which if it bad not been, by the mercy of
God, detected, God knows what might have
befallen us all by this time ; and still the parlia-
ment have it under their consideration, how to
prevent any further mischief by it ; and for
you, in such a way as this, to do what yoa can
to suppress the evidence, is such a crime, that
we have reason to suspect, that the rage of the
people will be so great against you, that it
might endanger your life. Therefore we have
taken care to give a charge to the sheriff, and
the justices, that the peace might be kept, and
that no ill consequences may happen to you, but
only the shame and infamy, to which you are
condemned ; and which you do deserve as well
as any man that ever was convicted.
Then the Court adjourned to Hicks's hall,
upon Wednesday the 30th of April : and the
keeper went away with bis prisoner.
On the Monday following, the prisoner was
set iu the pillory, according to the Judgment of
the court.
31 1] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chamas H. 1670.-- JWsl tf I^onwu Whitehead, [Mt
251, The Trial of Thomas Whits, alias Whitebread*, Provincial
of the Jesuits in England, William Harcourt, pretended
Rector of London, John Fen wick, Procurator for the Jesuits
in England, John Gavan alias Gawen, and Anthony Tur-
ner,! all Jesuits and Priests, at the Old Bailey, for High-
Treason: 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679.
ON Friday the 13th of June, 16T9, at the ses-
sions-honse in the Old Bailey, the Court being
net, at which all the judges of England were
present; proclamation was made of silence and
attention whilst the king's commission of Oyer
and Terminer, and of guol delivery were openly
read ; and after die usual proclamation of at-
tendance upon the sessions, the court proceeded
to call the juries impannelled, and to the trials of
the prisoners, thus :
Clerk of the Crown. Set Thomas Whitebread,
John Fenwirk, William Harcoort^ John Gavan,
Anthony Turner and James Corker, to the bar.
Capt. Richardson. They are all on.
CI. of the Cr. Thomas White, alias White-
bread, hold up thy hand ; John Fen wick, hold
op thy band ; William Harcourt, alias Harri-
son, bold npthy hand ; "John Gavan, holdup
thy hand ; Anthony Turner, hold up thy hand ;
James Corker, bold up thy band ; which they
all severally did.
And James Corker presented a Petition to the
Court, to this effect :
u That about eight months since, the peti-
tioner was committed for refusing to take the
oaths of allegiance and supremacy ; that he had
lately received notice to prepare himself for his
trial, against this present day, but that the same
was afterwards contradicted ; and that yester-
day a gentleman informed mm from the Attor-
ney General, that a bill was found against him
•f high- treason, and that be was to prepare
himself for bis trial thereupon accordingly;
end forasmuch as tbe petitioner is altogether
ignorant of the matters charged upon him in
the same, and by reason thereof is absolutely
surprised, and unprepared for his defence, and
divers gaol delivenes having been held since his
first commitment, and be never called to his
trial ; be doth humbly beseech their honours,
that be may not be tried till the next sessions,
•nd that in tbe mean time he may have copies
of such informations as are given in against
Lord Chief Justice. (Sir William Scroggs.)
Mr. Corker, have you really any witnesses,
without whom you cannot make your defence ?
Corker. No, my lord, I have none.
L. C. J. You do not understand my ques-
tion ? Do not you want any witnesses now,
that yon may have smother time ?
*Mh-
* See ante, p. 190.
t See Introduction to theTrmls for the Popish
Plot, ante, vol. 6, p. 1401.
Corker. I am a stranger to tbe things char*
ged upon me.
L. C. J. Can you not tell, whether yon
have any witnesses or no ? Tbe matter is this,
both for you and all the rest of you, that there
may be no exception ; you are upon tbe trial
of your lives, and we upon our oaths, and
therefore I speak it, if so he you have any wit*
nesses because you pretend you are surprised,
if you have really any, whereby you can make
a better defence for yourselves than now, the
court will incline to your request ; but if yon
have not, then it is in vain to tarry.
Corker. My Lord, I verily believe I shall
have witnesses.
L. C. J. As for the copy of the Indictment,
it is never granted to any persons, and there-
fore must not be to yon.
L. C. J. North. You must give us clear saw -
tisfaction, tbat yon are real in your pretences ;
and must give us the names of your witnesses,
wbere they live, and let us kuow what they can
say for you, tbat we may he satisfied, for sock
a general allegation as this, any man living
may make.
Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies) Ue was
one of the ten that was appointed by the coun-
cil to be tried.
L. C. J. Why, you had notice a week age?
Corker. But it was contradicted the next
day.
Cant. Richardson. I heard Mr. Clare say
that he should be tried then.
Attorney General. (Sir William Jones.) He)
had notice together with the rest, but be was
not in tbe first order of council for the trial of
these persons ; he sent to the clerk to know who
were to be tried, and his name was left out 5
and so understood he was not to be tried. Ota
Tuesday last I moved tbat be might he am?"
into tbe order, and so be was, and now there im
an order of council for it ; but he bad notice ss
week ago, as well as the rest.
Capt. Richardson. I gave them notice that
all were to prepare for their trial as this <rajr»
and in order to that, 1 went fee the council, to seat
what order was taken about it, and the cleric
shewed me their names, amongst which Corker
was left out ; and I told him Corker had notice*
of trial, and therefore I desired I might liavaa
an order for him too ; they told me, that these*
ivasno order taken about him.
Alt. Gem. My Lord, I would have all thai
gentlemen have aU the fair pky in the workd 5
therefore if be can satisfy your lordship, tbasr
(he can have any witnesses that he bath not
r, I asn content the trial should stay to ano-
ther time.
L. C.J. Yen slian hear tbe Infcunent read,
tad then 700 will knew what sort of treated k
is job are charged with, and after that yon will
make jour answer whether you hare any wit-
Recorder. My lard, it will be necessary that I
pre yow'tordship an account of one thing. On
Saturday night tnere came a gentlewoman to
me, 00 the behalf of all tbe prisoners, and said
(here were some witnesses that she was uoder
spyichenaionwould not appear for the prisoners,
usisss they had some order ; her name she told
sse, was Ireland, and she came in the name of
sH the prisoners, she said. I told ber, if she
woald bring me a note of the witnesses names
they did desire, they shoald have all the assist-
ance the coon could give them for the getting
of their witnesses this day ; but since that time
I never heard of the gentlewoman, or from the
SIS] STATE TItlAl* SI Cuius IL l670«~4Mi othm, fit JZfeft JWawa. fpl4
lord king Charles the Sad, at the parish ef ftt.
Qilesin the fields, in the county of Middlesex
aforesaid ; Yoo the said Thomas White other*
wise Wbitebread, John Fenwick, William Har-
court otherwise Harrison, John Gavan, An-
thony Turner, and James Corker, with diver*
other false traitors, subjects of our said sove-
reign lord the king, to the jurors unknown, isJ*»
ly, subtilJy, advisedly, maliciously, and trsito*
rootly, did purpose, compass, imagine, and in-
tend sedition and rebellion within this kingdom
of England to move, stir up, and procure, and n
miserable slaughter among the subjects of oar
said sovereign lord the king to procure an*)
cause, and our said sovereign, lord the king, of
hit kingly state, title, power, and government of
his said kingdom of England, utterly to deprive,
depose, cast down and disinherit, and him one
said sovereign lord the king to death and final
destruction to bring and put, and the govern-
ment of this kingdom of England, and the
sincere religion of God within the same, rightly,
and by the laws of the same established at
your will and pleasure to change and alter, and
the state of this whole kingdom of England,
through all its parts, well instituted and or-
dained, wholly to subvert and destroy, and
war, within this kingdom of England, against
oar said sovereign lord the king, to levy : And
to accomplish and fulfil your said most wicked
treasons and traiterous imaginations and par-
poses, you tbe said Thomas White otherwise
Wbitebread, John Fenwick, William Harcoort
otherwise Harrison, John Oavan, Anthony Tur-
ner, and James Corker, and other false traitof*
against oar said sovereign lord the king, to the
jurors unknown, the said *4tb day a( April,
with force and arms, 61c. in the parish aferesaid,
and county aforesaid, falsly, maliciously, saw* •
tilly, advisedly, devilishly, and traitorously, did
assemble, unite, and gather yourselves together,
and then and there, ral»lj,rnahciously, subtitle,
advisedly, devilishly and traitorously, did eon-
suit, consent and agree, our said sovereign lord
the king to death and final destruction to bring
and put, and the religion of this kingdom of
England rightly, and by the laws of the same
established, to die superstition of the Kentish
church to change nod alter, and the government
of this kingdom of England to subvert $ and
that one Thomas Pickering, and one John
Grove should kill and murder our said sove-
reign lord the king ; and that von tbe said
Thomas White otherwise Wbitebread, John
Fenwick, William Harcoart otherwise Harrisoo,
John Gavan, Anthony Turner, James Corker,
and other fiilse traitors against our said sore-
reign lord the king, to the jurors unknown,
should therefore say, celebrate, and perform, a
certain number of . masses, -then and there
asnonvst yourselves agreed on, for the soul of
die satd Thomas Piekering, and for that causa
should pay to the said John Grove a certain'
sum of money, then and there amongst your-
selves agreed on ; and that you the said Tho-
mas White otherwise White bread, John sren—
wick, William Harcoart otherwise Harrison,
L. C. J. Mr. Corker : you will do well to
take notice what you are charged withal, and
nftsa wards tell as, if there are any witnesses
that can say any thing for your defence, at
jour nisi for those mat ten.
CLefCr. " You stand indicted by tbe names
of Thomas White in the parish of St. Giles in
the fields io the county of Middlesex, clerk,
otherwise called Thorn as Wbitebread of the same
parish and county, clerk ; John Fenwick of tbe
same parish and county, clerk, Wm. Harcourt
of the same parish and county, clerk, otherwise
called "William Harrison of the same parish and
county, clerk ; John Gavan of the same parish
and county, clerk ; Anthony Turner of the same
parish and county, clerk ; and James Corker
of the same parish and county, clerk : For that
yoa, as false traitors against the most illustrious,
most serene, and most excellent prince Charles
the 3d, by the grace of God, of England Scot-
land, France, and Ireland, king, defender of the
Faith, te. j our supreme and natural lord ;
not baron* the fear or God in your hearts, nor
wesghiug the duty of your allegiance, but being
ssoved and seduced by tbe instigation of tbe
devil, the cordial love, true due and natural
obedience, which true and faithful subjects of
ear said sovereign lord the king towards him
should, and of right ought to bear, wholly
withdrawing ; and devising, and with all yoar
strength intending the peace and common tran-
<joiHitf of this realm to disturb, and the true
worship of God within this kingdom of Eng-
land seed, and by the law established, to over-
throw, and the government of this realm to sub-
vert, and sedition and rebellion within this king-
dom of England to move, stir up and procure ;
and tbe cordial lore, and true and due obedi-
ence, which tree and faithful subjects of our
laid sovereign lord tbe king towards hhn should
sod of right ought to bear, utterly to withdraw,
a out, and extinguish, and our said sovereign
due king to death and €nal destruction to
bring and pot, on the 24th day of ApriJ, in the
aUnyrar of the reign -of our said sovcrejgrj
SU] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chmmlbm It 16?0.~-ft»JLqf Thomas Whitehead, [5M
John Gatan, Anthony Turner, and Jama Cor-
ker, and other false traitors to the jurors un-
known, in further prosecution of the treasons
and traiterous consultations and agreements
aforesaid, afterwards' the said 24th day of April
at the parish aforesaid, in the county aforesaid,
ialsly, subtilly, advisedly, maliciously, devilish-
ly, and traitorously, did, severally each to the
other engage yourselves, and upon the sacra-
meat traitorously swear and promise to conceal
and not to divulge the said most wicked trea-
sons, and traiterous compassings, consultations,
and purposes aforesaid amongst yourselves had,
traitorously, to kill and murder our said sove-
reign lord the king, and to introduce thettomish
religion within this kingdom of England, and
the. true reformed religion within this realm,
rightly, and by the laws of the same established
to alter and change: And that you the said
Thomas White otherwise Whitehead, John
Fen wick, William Harcourt alias Harrison, John
Gavau. Anthony Turner, and James Corker,
and other false traitors to the jurors unknown,
in further prosecution of your said treasons
and traiterous intentions and agreements afore-
said, afterwards the said 24th day of April, at
the parish aforesaid, in the county aforesaid,
ialsly, subtilly, advisedly, maliciously* devilishly,
and traitorously, did prepare, persuade, excite,
abel, comfort, and counsel, four other persons
to the jurors unknown, subjects of our said so*
vereigo lord the king, traitorously our said so-
vereign lord the king to kill and murder, against
the duty of your allegiance, against the peace
of our sovereign lord the king, his crown and
dignity, and against the form of the statute in
that case made and provided."
How sayest thou, Thomas White alias White-
bread, art thou guilty of this High-Treason
whereof thou standest indicted, or not guilty?
WkUebrtad. My Lord, I desire te speak
ona word ; I am advised by counsel, and I may
and ought to represent it to this court,* for not
only my own life, but the lives of others of his
majesty's subjects are concerned in it. That
upon the 17th of December last I was tried
upon the same indictment, the Jury was impan-
nelled and called, I put myself .into the hands
of the Jury, and the evidence was brought in
and examined, particularly against me, and was
found insufficient, so that the Jury was dismis-
sed without any verdict. * I humbly submit
myself jo your lordships and this noble court,
whether I may not have counsel in this point
of law, to advise me, whether 1 may and ought
to plead again the second time ; for according
to law, I am informed no man can be pot in
jeopardy of bis life the second time, for the same
cause*
Is C.J. You say weU, Mr. Wnitobread.
WhUebrttd. I speak it not for my sake only,
but the sake of the whole nation no man should
be tried twice for the same cause ; by the same
reason, a man may be tried 30 or 100 times.
JL C. J. You say well, it is observed, Mr.
• See snte, p, 190.
Whitcbread ; but .you must know, that you
were not put in jeopardy of your life for the
same thing, for first the jury were discharged
of you ; it is true, it was supposed when yon
were indicted, that there would be two witnes-
ses agaiost you, but that fell out otherwise, and
the law of the land requiring two witnesses to
prove you guilty of treason, it was thought
reasonable, that you should not be put -upon the
jury at all, but you were discharged, and then
you were in no jeopardy of your life.
WhiUbrtod, Under favour, my lord, I<was in
jeopardy; for I was given in charge to the
jury ; and it is the case of Sever, in 10. Elix..
he was indicted for a burglary committed the
1st of August, and pleaded to it ; and after-
wards another iudictment was preferred, and
all the judges did declare, that he could not be
indictee* a second time for the same fact be-
cause he was in jeopardy of his life again.
X. C. J. Surely, you were not in jeopardy,
and I will shew you how you were not ; sap-
pose you bad pleaded, and the jury were sworn.'
Whittbrcad. They were so in my case.
X. C. J. It is true they were ; hot suppoa-
. ing that presently upon that some accident falls
out, a witness is taken sick, and be feigned to
be carried away ; or for any reasonable cause,'
it should be thought fit by the court to discharge,
the jury of it, that they should not pass upon
your life, are you in jeopard? then?
L. C. J. North. I would nave you be satis-
fied with reason, and the course of law, that
other mens' lives are under, as well as yours* .
The oath the jury take, is, that they shall c well .
' and truly try, and true deliverance make,' of
such prisoners as they shall have in charge; the
charge of the jury is not full, till the Court give
them a charge at the last, after evidence had ;
and because there was a mistake in your case,
that the evidence was not so full as might be,
the jury, before ever they considered concern-
ing you at all, they were discharged, and so you
were not in jeopardy ; and I in my experience
know it to be often done, and it is the course of.
law, the clerks will tell you it is frequently done
here and at other places ; and this is not the
same indictment, and it contains further matter,
than that you pleaded to before. And then if
you will make this plea good that you go upon,
you must alledge a record, and shew some re-
cord to make it good, and that cannot be, be-
cause there is none, and so it will signify no-
thing to you, as you have pleaded it.
Wldt. I desire the record may be viewed,
it remains with you. I do only present this to
your lordship and the Court, and desire I may
have counsel.
X. C* J. No, not at all, there is no entry
made of it.
Whit. I desire that counsel may advise me ; -
for I am advised, that according to the law of
the land, I ought not to plead again, and I hope -
your lordships will be of counsel for me.
X. C. J. Look you, Mr. Whitebread, there
is no entry made upon it; and the reason ss,
because there was no trial ; and there was no
317] STATE TRIALS, 31 ChailisIL 1619.— md others, for High Treteo*. [818
trial, because there was no condemnation or ac-
quittal : if there bad been, tbeh yon had said
something.
Whit. That which I ask is, whether I ooght
not to be condemned or acquitted.
L. C J. No, it is only in the discretion of
the Court. For if a man he indicted for mur-
der, and some accident should happen, (when
the witness come to prove it) that he should be
taken UJ, and so be carried away, should the
murderer escape ?
Whit. That is not my case; you may do as
yon please.
L C. J. Bat we shew, that it is in the dis-
cretion of the Court to discharge the jury upon
swb accidents, and then the party is not in
Whit. I have only prayed your lordship's
secretion in this.
X. C. J. Yon ought to plead, and must plead.
L. C. J. North. I suppose if any of my
brethren are of another opinion, than what we
have expressed, they would say so.
Court. We are nil of your opinion.
JL C. J. All the judges of England are of
the same opinion.
Recorder. It is the constant practice.
L. C. J. It is frequent in all places, it is no
new thine. — Whit. My lord, I am satisfied.
C/. efCr. Thomas White alias White bread,
art thoo Goiliy of the high treason whereof
thou standest indicted, or Not Guilty ?
Whit. Not Guilty.
& of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried?
Whit. By God and my, country.
CL of Cr* God send thee a good deliverance.
John Fenwick, art thou Guilty of the same
high treason, or Not Guilty ?
Fburick. Not Guilty.
Ci. of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Fen&ick. By God and my country.
CL rfCr. God send thee a good deliverance.
Femwkk. I was tried before with Mr. White-
bread, oar case is the same ; the only reason
why (I presume} we were not proceeded against,
was, because the second witness declared he
tad nothing to say against us, that was Mr. Bed-
fcr*\who said, as to Mr.Wkitebread and Mr. Fen*
«ick, I bare nothing to say against them ; if he
had given the same evidence against us, as he had
d«ue against the rest, we bad been condemned,
aed had suffered, and so I suppose we ought to
have been discharged.. »
L. C. J. No, it was not reasonable you
should be discharged : it remains in the discre-
tion of the Court, not to let a man that is ac-
cesed of a great and capital crime escape, if
there he one witness that swears expressly : do
yo« think it reasonable such a man should go
e»t~free, though there wanted two that the
aw requires? Yon were not in danger, your
&tes were not in jeopardy.
Fcttmnck. My lord, we were in* the same
laager with those three that suffered.
L. C. J. No, we never let the jury go toge-
ther to .consider whether you were Guilty, or
Not Guilty; we did prevent yourmaking your
defence, because we thought it not* sufficient
charge.
CL of Cr. William Harcourt alias Harrison,
how sayest thoo, art thou Guilty of the high-
treason whereof thou standest indicted, or Not
Guilty ?
Harcourt. Not Guiky.
CL of Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Harcourt. By God and my country.
CL of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance.
How sayest thou, John Gavsn alias Gawen, art
thou Guilty of the same high treason, or Not
Guilty ?— Gavan. Not Guilty.
CL qfCr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Gavan. By God and my country.
CL efCr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. How sayest thou, Anthony Turner, art
thou Guilty of the same high treason, or Not
Guilty ?— Turner. Not Guilty.
€/. of Cr. - Culprit, how wilt thou be tried i
Turner. By God and my country.
CL of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance.
X. C. J. • Mr. Corker, you have heard the
Indictment read, and what it consists of, a
traitorous endeavour to subvert the government,
to murder the king, .to change the Protestant
religion into Popery; if you have any witnesses
that can be serviceable to you, as to these mat*
ters, name who they are, and where they lire ;
if you cannot, you bad as good take your trial
now, as at another time.
Corker. I not only have no witnesses ready*
but there are substantial circumstances, which
Ciradventure may arise, which may induce your
rdship to believe me innocent, and therefore
I humbly beg, I may stay some short time to
consult with those that are better skilled in the
law than J am:
X. C. J. What do you mean to have coon*
sel assigned you ?
Corker. WLy friends, my lord.
X. C. J. Every man knowahis own case best ;
you have been bred a scholar, and so you can*
not be so ignorant as other men are : V on can
tell whether you have any witnesses that yon
think are material for your defence.
Corker. That day of the 24tb of April, spoken
of in the indictment, I truly and really*toelieve
I was not in town that day; but I cannot
positively prove it, because I heard not of it be*
fore. * . - ■ ■
X. C. J. Is there any body that can testify
where yon were that day?. Can you name any
one.
Corker. Yes, I believe I can name one, and
that is one Alice Gaton, that is now 90 miles
out of town at Tunbridge, who can prove where
I did go about that time.
X. C. J. I'll tell you what, if my brothers
will, this woman you suppose can say something
for you, we will respite your trial for to-day,
seno somebody for her, and we will try yon to-
morrow.
X. C. J. North. Or any other witnesses ;
for as to this 34th day of April, it is known to
all the world to have been the day of the con-
sult; but because yen pretend a surprise, I
819] STATE TKEALS, 51 Chailes II. 1079 — Trial qf TUmms Wkhtkrud* [680
most tell you, that Mr. Attorney, seat you no-
tice with the rest; bat because you might be
led into another opinion, that the council did
net order it, you have the favour to be put off
till to-morrow : Get your witnesses ready if you
can.
L. C. J, If you have any other witnesses, or
desire any order for their appearance, let ns
know it.
Cprktr. I desire I may liave liberty to have
my trial pat off till Monday.
L. C. J. North. No, it cannot be. Monday
is the essoign day, and the commission will he
out.
L. C. J. Call the Jury.
CL qf Cr. Thomas White alias Whitebread,
bold up thy hand (and so as to the restV You
the. prisoners at the bar, those men that you
shall hear called or personally appear, are to
pass between our sovereign lord the king and
you, upon trial of your several lives and deaths ;
if therefore you or any of yon will challenge
them, or any of them, your time is to speak
onto them as they come to the hook; to be
sworn, and before they be sworn. Call sir Philip
Matthews.
Whittbremd. Wt challenge him. My lord,
that there may not be any farther trouble, it is
oar general petition, that none of those that
were for any of the former trials may be of this
Jury, they having already passed their judgment
open the evidence they have heard.
L. C. J. You may challenge them. And
therefore (sneaking to N the Clerk of the
Crown) don't take any that were upon the last
Jury for this cause.
Qavam. Nor any of the former Juries; we
do this that we may avoid giving your lordship
amy further trouble, because if we should stay
upon particulars we should too much trouble
the Court.
X. C. J, North. Look yon, I will tell you by
the way, yen have the liberty to challenge pe-
remptorily so many. All we can do, is to give
direction to the Clerk; if he do not pursue at,
we do not know them, we can't tell, you must
look after that.
ibcoflrfsr. You have the hooks wherein are
notes ef all their names, by you.
Then the Jury that were sworn were these
twelve: Thomas Harriot, William Gulston,
Allen Gerraway, Richard Chcvney, John Ro-
berta. Thomas Cash, Rainsford Waterbouse.
Matthew Batemao, John Katne, Richard
Whim, Richard Bull and Thomas Cox.
CLifCr. Crier, count these: Thorns* Har-
riot.
Crier. One, &c.
CI. e/ 'Cr. Thomas Cox.
Grssr. Twelve good men and true, stand to*
getber and hear your evidence.
Then the usual Proclamation for information
was made, and the Jurymen of Middlesex sum-
moned and not sworn were dismissed till next
morning, 8 o'clock.
C/.e/Cr. Th«n« White ali* Whitehead,
bold up thy hand (and so to the rest). Yota
gentlemen that are sworn, look upon the prU
soners and hearken to their cause ; they stain}
indicted by the names of Thomas White, &c.
(put in the indictment mutatis nwttndis) and
against the form of the statute in that enee
made and provided* .Upon this indictment they
have been arraigned, and thereunto have seve-
rally pleaded Not Guilty, and for their trials
have put themselves upon God and their cotin*
try, which country you are. Your charge ia to
enquire, whether they or any of them are Guilty
of 'the High Treason whereof they stand indict*
ed, or Not Guilty. If you find them or any of
them Guilty, you are to enquire what goods or
chattels, lands or tenements they had at the
time of the High Treason committed, or at any
time since. If you find them or any of them,
Not Guilty, you are to enquire whether they
fled for it : If you find that they fled for it, yon
are to enquire of their goods and chattels, as if
you had found tbem Guilty t If you find them
Not Guilty, nor that they nor any of thscn fled
for it, say so and no more, and hear your evi*
dence.
Then Mr. Belwood, of counsel for the king in
this cause, opened the iudictment thus :
May it please your lordship, and you gentle-
men of the Jury : the prisoners at the bar,
Thomas White alias Wnitebread, John Fen-
wick, William Harcourt alias Harrison, John
Gavan and Anthony Turner, together with
James Corker, stand indicted of High Treason.
It is charged in the indictment, That the 94th
of April, m the 30th year of the king that now
is, these persons, with other traitors unknown,
did purpose and conspire to stir up sedition
and rebellion ; to cause a miserable slaughter
of the king's subjects ; to depose the king of his
government, and bring him to death ; and to
change the government and religion by laws es-
tablished, and to levy war against the king.
And it is further charged in the indictment,
tliat pursuant to this intention of theirs, and
the better to bring it to pass, they did assem-
ble, consult, and agree, first to bring his majes-
ty to death, to murder the king, and thereupon
to change the religion established by law to the
superstition of the Romish Church, and to sub-
vert the whole government; and it was agreed,
that Pickering and Grove should murder the
king ; and that therefore Whitebread, and the)
rest of the persons indicted, should say a num-
ber of masses for the soul of Pickering : And
Grove, for this piece of service, was to have sa
sum of money. And the Indictment says fur-
ther, That these persons did take the Sacrnv-
meat to commit this treason with more secrecy i
and that they did likewise prepare, excite, aluafc
and counsel four other unknown persons to kilt
the king at Windsor. All these facts are said.
to be done advisedly, maliciously, traitnrousijr*,
and devilishly, and against their allegiance to
the king. To this they have pleaded Non?
Guilty ; if the king's evidence prove it, you
to find it so.
SI] STATE TRIALS, Si Ouftut U. lft?9.-Hntf oU*n,M Wfi Thorn. (SB
And then Sir Creswel Levins t one of the
ling's learned counsel in the law, opened the
Charge thus:
May ft please your lordship, and you gentle-
aaaaur the Jury: These prisoners at the bar
am by perswesioa Papists, by order and degree
they are ail priests. By the law of tbe land,
via. by a statute made the 37th of El». tbey are
aHejaulty of treason, for being priests, and they
■ago* be tried as such, and ought to die for it ;
ant that is tiot tbe fact they are charged with,
box will they bave the satisfaction to say that
they svjfcr for their religion: No, they are
" with a treason of a blacker and darker
And though I must tell you, that it is
100 years ago since that statute was
priests codling into England, yet
bare been Terr rare, that any of this '
bave died for their religion within
*s time, or any of her successors ;
yet aVry have died upon worse accounts, and
upon, each accounts as they are now brought to
this bar for. $uch is the difference between
their rehgioa and ours, tbey have been suffered
to live here under a law by which they ought to
die. They kill tbe Protestants by thousands,
wichoet law or justice, witness their bloody do-
iop at MirendoL tbeir massacre at Paris, (heir
barbarous cruelty in Ireland, siuce the year
1040, aed those m Piedmont, since 1650. Bat
shese are not tbe crimes tbey are charged with,
may are not accused for their religion, but for
afe Meekest and darkest treason that men can
ha charged with. They are charged with an
to murder the king, under whose
on tbey lived* Thi>murdcr of the king
been carried db in the Resign of it, with all
the malice and resolution that can be, from the
ant time that we can give you an account of
it, which was tbe 24th of April, 1678, when
these persons, and several others, did first as-
about other matters of their own, and
tbe rest to murder the king: There they
to a resolution that it should be done, and
aecBoos were appointed to do it ; these were
wove and Pickering, who have been executed
aw it ; tbey were to aid the king in St. James's
park ; but it pleased God that the flint of the
pistol failed, to which we are more beholden
than to them, that he escaped that time. Tbey
were not satisfied with that, but they send
eewa four butchers to murder him at Windsor,
whs being disappointed, they sent down1 others
after that to murder him at Newmarket ; and
when ait these failed, tbey bad recourse to that
treacherous and unmanly way of poisoning him,
and hired one so to do ; and they did not only
intend to murder tbe king, but to make it good
by force when they had done. They intended
to rake an army ; tbey had got Commissions to
several persons in the kingdom, to command
these forces. They designed to raise 50,000
steu to maintain the injustice, when they had
aoneit. And that was not al( ; they had re-
course to foreign assistance, and depended
upon foreigo succours, if they were not made
VOL. Til.
apod at home. Gentlemen, tbey have been
disappointed iu ail these things; they had an
intention further, as I find it m my brief, to'
make a general massacre of all Protestants here;
A thing that they have done, and we have
heard of it abroad, but thanks be to God, we
never knew it experimentally at home. And L
hope God that bath preserved os hitherto, will
preserve as still. — The mercy these men have
met with, in being suffered td live under the
danger of tbe statute, by which they might have
justly died, bath not prevailed upon or bettered
them at all, but been turned into monstrous in-
gratitude, and made them more desperate than-
other people woald have been. Gentlemen,
when all this is opened, I must tell yod, if these
persons be innocent, God forbid they should
suffer; but if tbey be guilty, surely they are not
fit to live among men : And truly if they be
guilty, they do not only deserve to die, but to
die a more cruel and miserable death, than
either the mercy of our prince, or the modera-
tion of our laws hath provided for such offenders*
I shall detain you no longer, bat will call the
witnesses, and then you shaM judge whether
they be guilty or not. And we begin with Mr.
Oates.-— Who was sworn.
Sir Crewel Ltvmx. Pray what can you say
to these gentlemen? begin with Mr. White-
bread first.
L. C. J. Mr. Oates, apply your evidence as
distinctly as you can to one person at first, unless
where the matter will take in all, or snore thaw
one of them.
Oates. My lord, I have evidence I desire
may be called m, I shall have occasion to use
them.
Gttvan. It may be inconvenient. He may in-
struct his witnesses.
L. €. /. North. No, he shall not, for we
will take care of that : But name your wie-
Oates. There is sir Richard Barker, Mr.-
Walter a minister, Mrs. Mayo, Philip Page, Mr.
William Smith, and one Mr. Clay, Mr. Butler,
Mrs. Sarah Ives.
Justice Atkins. Take a note ef their names,
and send for them. * l
L. C. J. Now, Mr. Gates, go on with your
evidence ; and when there is occasion to make
use of these persons they shall be called.
Oates. Tbe prisoner at tbe bar, Mr. White*
bread, was made and constituted provincial, so
as it was publicly known' to us, in the month of
December last was twelvemonth ; and he did
order by virtue of bis authority, one Father
George Convert to preach in tbe sodality of tne
English seminary, on the bolyday which they.
call St. Thomas of Canterbury, i. e. Thomas of
Becket's day, in which there was order given
that Mr. Conyers should preach and assert this
doctrine : That the oaths of allegiance and su-
premacy were heretical, antichrisrian and de-
vilish: accordingly, this order was executed,
and the sermon preached. Mr. Whkebread in
tbe month of January wrote letters (or at least-
wise, tit the beginning of February, I will riot
Y
SWJ STATE TRIADS, 31 Chablh R.
be positive as to the time, because it does not
occur to m j- memory) to St. Omen, concerning
tfre state of Ireland, of which he had an account
from archbishop Talbot, who wrote him word,
that there were several thousands of Irish that
were ready to rise, when the blow should be
^ven m England.
X. C. J. Was that in Whitehead's letter £
Onte$. Yes, my lord, and Mr. Whitebread
did say, He did hope it would not he long ere
it was given. Now, my lord, by the word
Blow, we did use to understand, and had in-
structions to understand the death end murder
of the king ; and in the month of January, I
think it was, that he sent over two Jesuits into
Ireland, to see how the state of affajrs stood
there : In the beginning of April they returned,
of which we had an account from Mr. White -
bread, by letters, wherein there was mention of
a consult to be held in the month of April, Old
Stile, and May, New Stile ; and according to
the order there given, there met at that con-
sult, the prisoners at the bar, Whitebread, Fen-
wick, Harcourt and Turner ; and if it please
your lordship, all these at that consult did sign
8} resolve, Mr, Whitebread at his chamber,
which was at Wild-house, Mr. Fenwick at his
lodgings in Drury-lane, and Mr. Harcourt who
had some, at his chamber in Duke-street. But,
my lord, I am to premise this, before I go any
further, That the consult was begun at the
White-horse tavern in the Strand, and there
they did agree to send Father Cary to be their
procurator at Rome; and after some such
things were done, they adjourned into several
dubs or colloquies, or what you please to call
them. One was at Mr. White tread's cham-
ber, another at Ireland's chamber, that is exe-
cuted, another at Harcourt's, and another at
Fenwick's ; now here was a resolve signed by
these prisoners at the bar, in which— —
L. C. J. That is four of them, Whitebread,
Fenwick, Harcourt, and Turnei .
. Oatet. Yes, mv lord.
, X. C. J. Was Gavan there ?
Oates. I dare not, mv lord, affect him with
that, because I cannot be positive, but I will
five you my evidence ecainst him by and by.
fy lord, these four gentlemen, with the rest of
their accomplices, did sign a resolve, which was
this, ' That Pickering and Grove should go on
in their attempts to dispatch the king;' and
this they did resolve upon, and gave it as their
judgment, as a very excellent expedient. My
lord, after this consult we did return (we were
eight or ten that came over} ; and may it please
your lordships, in the month of June, I think it
was June, he came to Flanders, in order to visit
hit colleges, being provincial of the Jesuits of
England : He did stay there, as near as I can
remember, till the tenth of June, and enquir-
ing of the Fathers how squares went in town,
among other expressions he used, this was one,
• That he hoped to see the black fool's head at
Whitehall laid fast enough ; and that if his
Brother should appear to follow in his footsteps,
his passport should be made too/ or to that
1 67Q.—Ttuil of Thomas Whitehead, [3H
i purpose, ' he should be dispatched/ Upon the
lSth of June, Old Stile, the 25d New Stile, I
had orders to come for England ; according to'
which order I came, and did take the Packet-
boat, as near as I can remember, the 24th,
which was the 14th Old Stile, and we landed
at Dover, the 25ih, very early in the morning ;
and when I was at Dover, I met with the prisoner
at the bar, Mr. Fenwick, and he, myself, and
some others, did take coach, and come as far
as Canterbury ; after we had eaten and drank
there, we came six miles further, where4here
was a box seized by the searchers of the town
of Borton, and this box was brought up by Mr.
Fenwick, and directed to one BlundeJ, and the
superscription was, as near as I can remember,
in these words, ' To the honourable Richard
Blundel, e»a. at London.' And this prisoner at
the bar, Mr. Fenwick, did desire that the
searchers would send it to him (it was fall of
beads and crucifixes, and such things) to the
Fountain tavern near Charing- Cross, and write
a letter to him, by tbe name of Mr. Thompson,
as that was the name he usually went by,
when he came to Dover, and he, had then
brought some students there, to send over to
St. Omers.
X. C. J. When went Fenwick ?
Oates. When I came to Dover, I met Fen*
wick, by the name of Thomson, going to send
over the students, and Fenwick did say, If they
had searched his pockets, as they had searched
his box, they had found such letters, as would
have cost him his life ; for, smith be, they were
about our concern in hand. Then we came up
to London, and arrived at London the 17th of
June, Old Stile, for we lav a part of the way at
Sittenburn, in the morning, and in the after-
noon we came to Dartford, and came to Lon-
don, Monday noon, the 17th Old Stile. And
in the month of July, there was one Richard
Ashby, whose right name indeed is Thimbleby,
but he went by the name of Ashby, and this
gentleman did bring over instructions from the
prisoner at tbe bar, Mr. Whitebread, who was
abroad in Flanders, m herein he was to propose
10,000/. to sir George Wakeman, to poison the
king; and several other instructions'there were,
of which I cannot now give you an account;
and withal, that a blank commission should be
filled up, and ordered for sir John Gage, to
be a military officer in the army, and by that
gentleman's own order I delivered that com-
mission into sir John Gage's own hand, on a
Sunday.
L. C. J. Where had you that ccjmDission
from Whitebread ?
Oatet. It was skped and sealed by him, but
it was a blank, and was to be filled up.
L. C.J. Where?
Caret. It was at Wild-house.
L. C. J. How was it filled up?
Gates. It was filled up by Mr. Whitebread's
order, it was signed and sealed blank, and he
'ordered it to be filled up, and me co take that
commission and carrv it to sir John Gage.
• Whitebread, Did I order yeu ?
3S5] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cjuruu U. 1671) and others, for High Treason. [396
asked me, whether I knew, him } \ know him
now, but truly then I did not well know him,
because be was under that mask, and I could
not say any thine against him then, because he
being under an Ul favoured perriwig, and being
a man that I knew had a good head or hair of
his own, I did oot well understand the mystery
of it, and so spared my .evidence at that time
from informing the council against him f but
the prisoner at the bar came by the name of
Gavan, and we used to call lum by the name
of Father Gavan « and this gentleman did ia
the month of June write letters
G avail. What year?
" flutes. You ordered Aabby ; Isaw the letter,
mad knew it to be Whitebread's hand.
L.C.J. Was it before be went to St,
Oners?
Omits. It was while he was at St. Omers.
WkUtbrtad. What day was it ? What hour ?
Gates. It was in July.
Wbitebreod. What time of the month ?
flares. The beginning, ormiddJe.
Whiicbrcad. Are you sure it was in July ?
Gales. I canuot be positive, but I think it to
be in July ; for Ashby went to the Bath the lat-
ter end oi July, or the beginning of August, and
it was before he went.
Whitcbread. Who was present at the signing
af this commission ?
Gale*. There was present at the filling up of
this commission, Mr. Harcourt, Mr. Ashby, and
Mr. Ireland.
Fcnwick. Was not I there ?
Oafes, I think I filled it up. I will tell you
when you were there presently. My lord,
when Ashby went away, Fenwick went out of
town, but returned again presently, to give an
account how squares went, and really I cannot
remember where be had been, but as near as I
can, it was in Esses, I will not be positive in
it; bat, nay lord, this same gentleman, Mr.
Re wick, with Mr. Harcourt, did advise Mr.
Ashby, that as soon as be had been at the Bath,
be should go and give an account to the people
in Somersetshire, and there*away, his circuit
would be short and very easy, and be did not
oeestion, but before be came up to town again,
w have the gentleman at Whitehall dispatched,
they called the Black Bastard ; now 1
that to the jury to espound who the
by it.
YcmmicK What time was that, Sir, pray ?
You must time things, or you do nothing
at att.
Oata. It was the latter end of July, or the
bemaning of August, it was about the time of
Asaby's going to the Bath.
Fcnmvck. Just now he said, it was the be-
paniog or middle of July.
OaUs. I will tell your lordship what I said,
ifc^t this Ashby, or Thimbleby, came from
St. Omers with those orders or instructions,
caber the beginning of July, or the middle of
July.
Ftmmdek. I would not interrupt you, Mr.
Oaftes, this was some time before Mr. Ashby
west to the Bath, was it not ?
(hies. It was about a. day before.
JL C. J. lie says a thing that is plain
enough: Ashby came over about the beginning
or middle of July, with instructions about the
commission; and about the latter end of July
or beginning of August, as he remembers, this
advice was given.
Galea, And so we are arrived at the affairs
m August, which reflects upon these gentle-
men ; but now I must speak a word to this
Cidemao, Mr. Gavan, the prisoner at the
, whom when I saw come into the lobby,
I* had gotten on a perriwig; so there was one
Oata. In the year 1678, and did give the
Fathers at* London an account how affairs
stood in Staffordshire and Shropshire, and how
diligent one Father Even was to manage affairs
in those countries.
Gavan. From whence were those letters
sent ?
Oata. Tbere was only the day of the month,
you know it is not the custom to date the place.
When I saw the letter first, I did not know it
was his band, I took it upon report; but I wilL
tell the jury, by and by, how 1 came to know it
was bis band : as near as I can remember, it.
was in the month .of July (it was July or Au-
gust, this gentleman came to town, and I saw.
this gentleman at Mr. Ireland's chamber.
Genoa. What time of the month ?
Oata. It was in July 1678, as near as I can
guess.
Gavan. Upon my salvatioo, lam as innocent
as a child unborn.
X. C. J. North. By this means you put out
any witness in the world, by interrupting of
tbem. When the witness hath done bis testi-
mony, you may ask him any questions, to as-
certain tbe time or any thing, but you must not
interrupt him till he hath done.
Oata. In the latter part of July, I think it
was, but it was, as I remember, while Mr.
Ashby was in town, I met him at Mr. Ireland's
chamber, for he was a saying he would go sat
Father Ashby before he went out of town, and
be gave such an account to Father Ireland, of
the affairs in Staffordshire and Shropshire, at
he. had given in the letters before; but to.
prove bis hand, he did draw a bill upon one sir
William Andrews in Essex, for the payment of
some money, of some little sucking priests,
that were strolling up and down the country.
I saw him write it, and it was the same hand
with that letter.
Gavan. What did I write ?
L. C. J. You drew a bill upon such a person,
and he names him.
Oatcs. We are now come to Aogust.
JL. C. J. "But you say he discoursed about
the same things with Ireland, that he had wrote
in the letter.— Oaf a . Yes, my lord,
Gavan*. And what were those same things; .
Oata. Why how the affairs stood in Staf-
fordshire and Shropshire, how my lord Stafford
was very diligent. I desire to be excused as to
that, because it will diminish my evidence in
4M7] STATE TRIALS, SI Cbaml» II. 1 OTfc— Trial <$ Thomas Whitehead, [
another part of it: I will tell you part of what
was then discoursed of. ..
Goto*. My lord, be is sworn to speak all the
truth.
L. C, J. You must speak the whole truth, as
far as it concerns any of t he&e persons.
Oatet. He gave an account how prosperous
things were in those countries, and did say, that
there was at least two or three thousand pounds
that would be ready in that country for toe car-
Tying on the design, I think it was three, bnt it
was betwixt two and three. Now, my lord, we
are arrived to oar business in August ; about
the 12th of August, as near as I remember, but
k was between the 8th and the- 13tb, therein
I am positive, Ireland, who is executed, took
his leave qf us,* as if he were to go to St.
Omers.
X. C. J. Where did he take his leave ?
Oates. At his chamber in Russel Street.
Ireland went oat of town, and Fenwick, by
that means, Was to be treasurer and procurator
to the society altogether. lie had that employ
afterward upon him during his absence, let Mr.
Ireland go whither he would. And the 31st of
August* which, as near as I remember, fell upon
a Wednesday, Mr. Fenwick and Mr. Harcourt
were met together at Wild-House, and some
other Fathers, as Father Kaines, and one Father
Blundell, and some other Fathers, whom lean-
not remember.
Gavan. Was I there, pray, Sir ?
Oates. No, no, Sir j I am not to talk to you
•till, I am to speak to the Court.
L. C. J. North. We would recommend this
to you, to name persons when you speak of
them.
Oates. Where I hare occasion I will name
them, osy lord. Mr. Fenwick and Harcourt
were together at Wild-House, and Mr. Kaines,
and Mr. Blundell, and, as'near as I remember,
Mr. Langworth was there, but I will not be
positive. And. there lay before them at WHd-
Soose fourscore pounds, the most of that
money was guineas, which was to be paid to
the 4 Irish ruffians that were to murder the
king at Windsor. After it was agreed that
they should do it, and Coleman, who was exe-
cuted, came thither, and gave the messenger a
guinea to expedite the journey ; we drew off
from Wild-House, and went to Mr. Hercourt's
chamber ; and because Mr. Harcourt had there
left his Papers that were to be sent down to
Windsor, there he paid the messenger the
money. And that gentleman was present there,
Mr. Fenwick, and this is another part of
August's business. No sooner was this mes-
senger dispatched, but within a day after, or a
day before, but it was a day after, as near as I
can remember, there was a consult held at the
Benedictine's convent, at which Mr. Fenwick
was present, and Mr. Harcourt, and there they
bad some more Irish news from the Irish arch-
•• This was the perjury assigned in the second
count of the indictment upon which Oates was
•unrated, Ma; 4y 1*90, Sec the Trial, ta/fo
bishop Talbot, who did give an acconoe of the
Irish affairs, how they did conspire the deatbof
the duke of Ormond ; and desired to know how
affairs went in England, and desired some com-
missions might be sent over to some particular
persons there to raise forces fos the carrying
on of the design, and some money to be trans-
mitted to them. And Mr. Fenwick did bring
the commissions from Wild-House (as near- as
I remember), but he did bring them with him,
and sent them down by a special messenger to>
Chester, and some letters by the post. That of
the post 1 know of my own knowledge, but that
of the special messenger I had only from bis
own mouth. My lord, from the 34th of
August, as near as I remember it fell of a
Saturday, Bartholomew-day it was, but whether
it fell of a Saturday I cannot be positive; bat
if the Court please to inform themselves of it
by their Almanacks, they may.
l>. C. J. There is no great matter in thai, I
suppose.
Oatet. But this gentleman, Mr. Fenwick,
did deliver me some money for my nectsamiy*
incident charges, but did admonish me to>awe*
cure some Masses to be said for a prosperous)
success upon the design. Upon the 35th day*
I saw Mr. Fenwick in the afternoon at has
chamber, and he was to go on the 36th. day, the
next day, to St. Omers, and to carry 8 or lO
students to go there to study humanity : And
this is toe account I have to give of Mr. Fen-
wick : For after I took my leave of him hctv*
I saw him no more till he was apprehended.
L. C. J» This was about the 20th of August,
was it not ?
Oatet. Yes, my lord, it was the 36th at?
August.
I. C J. WelJ, go on, Sir.
Oatet. The 1st or 2nd of September, we
ceived a letter (in the beginning it was)
Mr. Whitebread, and this letter they did any
was a foreign letter, and yet it paid but twow
peoce, by which I did conclude) that Mr*
Whitebread was come into England, and lay
somewhere privately, or was not yet coma)
to town. On the 3rd of September. I went
to Mr. ..Whitehead's chamber, at night*
but he being at supper, was not to he spoken
with ; but when be saw me the next mora-*
ing, he did revile me, and strike me, and.aatu
ed me with what face I could look upon
bim, seeing I had* dealt so treacherously wish
them ? Now, after that I had enquired in a tan
respect? He answered, in the discovering: of
the business, for there was a gentleman that
went to the king in this business, to woaaa-S
had communicated much of my information by
Dr. Tongue. This gentleman had the esssae)
coloured clothes that I had, and *> they net
being able to give an account of the name as?
the persoB, gave only an account of the habit
he was. in, and therefore they charged me with
it. After I had justified myself as well as I
could, Mr. Whitebread did shew me a letter*
which came from one Beddingfield,
ningfiefd, which die} shew the Plot
I) STATS TRIALS 51 ChaJu.es BL 1 679,— «nd dtkersjer High TVoufc*. (3»
L (LJ. Dr. Qatav you positively say, tl^t
Whitebread, Fcnwick, and Hareourt were
there I
Oatet. Yes, ay lord, for Mr. Whjtebfead
was provincial and presideat of the assembly,
Sir Cr. Levinz. And Turner was there r
OoAes. Yes, he was.
Sir Cr. Levins. Dr. Oates, what was that
money raised lor ?
Oaf et. They said it was for the carrying e*
of the design.
L. C. J. And what design was that ?
Qatct. Our design. And that was the sub-
version of the government, and destruction- of
the king.
X.C J. Now, if yon please, yon may ask'
him any question.
Gavan. Mr. Oates, you say you saw my
name to a letter for the taking up of money ;
to whom was that letter writ f
Oatet. There was a letter from you to Mr.
Ireland. And be did receive it by the hands
of Grove.
Govuh. Where was that money to be taken
up?
Oatet . My lord, I say, that letter was re-
ceived by Grove, who is out of the. way, and
cannot prove it, and was delivered to Ireland.
L. C. J. I perceive your memory is not
good.
Gavan. I perceive bis memory is very good.
Oatet. This letter did give anaocouot of the
business of Staffordshire, and the particulars «tf
that Mr. Gavan did afterwards give an account
of by word of mouth, and some other things
not fit to be named.
Gavan. Pray, where was it, Sir, that I gave
an account of it ; in London, or hi the country ?
Oatet. In London.
Gavan. In what month I *
Oatet. In July it was.
Gavan. What part of July*
Oatet. It was when Mr. Asbby was in town,
the beginning or middle.
Gavan. Just now, you said' k was in the
latter end.
Oates. My lore), I beg this favour, that if the
prisoners at the bar .ask any qawation*, they
may be proposed to the Court, for they are
nimble in their questions, and do a little abuse
the evidence* They pat things upon them that
they never say.
Mr. Justice Pemoertoav Propose, your auee*
tions to the Bench, that you would have asked.
Gavan- I would do so, my lord, in whose
honour I have more confidence, than » what-
soever Mr. Oate* says or swears,
L. C. J. But be tells you who you drew yonr
bill of exchange upon, and that was sir Wil-
liam Andrewsv
L. C. J. North. Do not give the kingfe wit-
nesses ill words.
L. C. J. Have you any more to ase^ enpwf
you?
Whitehead* Yes, my lord*
L. C. J. See if you can catch hiss, be grass.
you a long and exact account as can be given
vamt, and ahem thaw were line to be undone, if
it sad not been for the five letters that were
stat down as> Windsor and intercepted, which
nade all to be looked upon as counterfeit ;
after that, I' justified myself as well as I coald.
Bt tobJ me he would be friends with me, pro-
dded I would give an account of the party, and
of the minister that went with him 4 Apd this
ii what I have to say against Mr. Whitebread,
sad the prisoners at the bar ; but only this, be-
cause sir George Wakeman did not accept of
lOgOOOl that was proposed to him to poison
the king, this gentleman offered that 5,000/.
more should be added.
La J. Which gentleman r
Gates, Mr. Whitebread. And 15,000*. was
accepted, and when it was accepted, White-
bread dad greatly rejoice that the money was,
sftepatd to poison the king.
WkMrcmd. Did I tell you so ?
Oates. No, there was a letter told me so;
hat yon were in Flanders then.
SsrCr. Levins. What have you to say against
Mr. Terser?
Oats*. I speak as to his being .it the consult
an April, and signing the* resolve of the death of
the sing.
L C. J. Was Mr. Gavan at that consult the
**h of April?
Oatet. Mr. Gavan was summoned to that
esaaait; hast among 40 men I cannot particu-
larly say be was there, but I saw his name
spaed as to the king's death, but I cannot say
I saw bis person.
L C. J. Can you say you saw bis band-
wrasse > — Oatet. I do believe it was his:
LC. J. Did you ever fee any writing of his,
hat when be signed the bill of exchange ?
Oates. My lord, I never saw him write but
that time. It was an ill pen, as it seemed, that
he writ his name with to the consult, and I did
not cake so particular notice of the being of
bis name there, till we saw the instructions in
July, and then I did look over the consult par-
tkaJarfy.
L. Ci J. Beit I say, did you ever see bis hand*
■liiin^ before he writ the bill ?
Oat a. My lord, I never saw his hand but
L C. J. And that by your comparing, was
He the hand of the letter about Staffordshire ?
Otter. By that I proved the letter to be
wriiien from him. It was like it, and was all as
L C. J. Was it like die hand that was to the
cmnadt?
Ouetesv That I cannot say.
L G. J. I thought you had said he confessed
ane> contents of the tetter, when lie came out of
evasraeonwire r
Oates. I do say this of Mr. Gavan, that he
wrote sach a letter, and when he came to towo,
W old give an account of all the passages that
the letter did contain, which was concerning
&e raising of money in Staffordshire, and the
fans he was concerned in : and this was the
•ccoonthegave,
33 lj STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. l6ft>.— Trial qf fhomas Whitebread, [832
by any man in England ; and pray direct your-
self, Mr. Whitebread, to the Court.
Whitebread. He says be was here in April,
and at the consult ; now I desire to know bow
Ions before that time were you and I ac-
quainted ?
Oates. Why, before that time I never saw
Mr. Whitehead's face.
Whitebread. What employment were you to
have, and what reward ?
Oates. When I came away from St. Omers,
I was to attend the motion of the Fathers at
your chamber, and to carry the resolve from
chamber to chamber, where the Fathers were
respectively met.
Fenwick. Was not you at the Wbite-Horse
tavern ?
Oatts. Yes, I was there.
Fenwick. Did you dine there ? . ■
Oates. No, our stay was short there.
Fenwick. How lung did you stay in town ?
Oates. Truly, 1 cannot tell you exactly ; but
from the time I came into England, to the
time I went out again, was under twenty days.
Fenwick. Who were they that came over
with you ? name tbe parties.
Oates. I will tell you who they were ; hut
it is so long since, I cannot exactly remember.
Fenwick. You need not trouble your me-
mory, you have them in your Narrative.-
Oates. My lord, there was father Williams,
the rector of Wot ton, the rector of liege, Sir
John Warner, sir Thomas Preston, and some'
others.
Whitebread. Was not Mr. Nevil there ?
Oates. I believe he was, it is like he might
be there.
Whitebread. Was not sir Robert Brett there?
Oates. I believe he might.
Whitebread. You have said so in your Nar-
rative.
L. C. J. Perhaps a man nil! venture to
write more than he will swear ; not that he
<toes write what he does not believe, but that
he knows he ought to be more cautious in his
oath, than in his affirmation.
Fenwick. My lord, with your lordship's
favour, it is upon oath.
L. C. J. north. Fenwick, you are in a court
oflaw, and we must go according to tbe law ; if
you will prove any contradiction in him to his
oath, you must bring tbe persons here that saw
him take tbe oath ; and you must not think to
take a pamphlet for evidence.
• Fenwick. It was sworn before a justice of
■peace, and will not, I suppose, be denied ; and
therefore he must make bis evidence agree with
it, being part of his Narrative.
Gavan. You speak of one thing in August,
and of another in July ; which month saw you
main ?
Oates. I told you, I saw you in town in July,
and when father Ashby or Thimbleby was in
town ; and you said you would go and see him.
Justice Pemberton. He says it was in July,
and that is enough.
Gaiem. What time io July ?
_ i
Oates. It was towards the middle or latter
end.
Gavan. Was it before Mr. Ashby went, to
the*Bath ?
Oates. It was so.
L. C. J. He ssys he saw you in town, when
Ashby was in town, which was towards the
latter end of July, or beginning of August.
He cannot teil exactly whether, but positively
he Says before Mr. Ashby went to the Bath.
' L. C. J. North. Well, to satisfy you, we will
ask Mr. Oates the question again. Can you
recollect whether it was the middle or latter
end of July?
Oates. My lord, as near as I can remember,
it was about the middle of July that Ashby
came to town, and he did not slay io town
above a fortnight : and it was whilst be was in
town, and designed, to go down to the Bath,
that this gentleman came to town, and gave
account of the particulars of that letter.
L. C. J. North. You may ask him any qoes*
tions ; but I would have you observe what ac-
count he gives, that about the middle of July,
Ashby came to town, that he staid in town
about a fortnight, as he believes, that during
that time you came to town, and then was this
discourse.
Gates. During that time I saw him in town;
but I kuow not exactly when it was.
Gavan. My lord, I would ask him one ques-
tion ; the tiling that is brought against roe is
this ; he says Air. Ashby came to. town in the
middle of July, that he staid in town a fort*
night, that while he was there I came to town,
and had such discourse : now, my lord, I desire
to know, whether it was tbe first week, or Inst
week, that Ashby was m town, that be saw
L. C.J. If he can answer it, let him.
Oates. My lord, I cannot.
L. C. J. He tells you, he cannot charge bi
memory with it.
Oates. No, mv lord, nor will not.
L. C. J. Really, I believe there is scarce)
one in all this company, able to give an account
of a particular time of a passage so long ago.
Gavan. No doubt he hath an excellent me-
mory.
L. C. J. And if he had not some memorials
of this he could not do it. And though be
hath memorials of the most eminent passages*
yet we cannot suppose he hath of all dream*
stances.
Gavan. But this is the substance ; and you*
lordship may conceive that not without reason
I urge it ; for if Mr. Ashby came to town the>
beginning of July, and staid but a fortnight its
town, and I came to town while he wn here,
it must be in one of the two last weeks. Now
I would have it ascertained, because I may
disprove it in one week or in the other,
L. C. J. It is true, you did not amiss in asa>-»
ing the question, if he were able to answer it: -
but if it be either, it is enough to prove vox*
guilty.
Gavan. Pray, was it only one time, ordiv<
that you saw me in London ?
3*?] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cbaw.es U. i679.r-ario//<m,/or High Treason. [S34
but captiousness, to disprove, him in circum-
stances of time, place, persoos, or numbers;
now all these are but little matters to the sub*
stance: It is true, Mr. Whitebread, if you can
prove you wereuotat that place at that time, it
will do you great service. Have you any thing
more to say to him?
L C.J. North. 1 hope your witnesses are in
readiness that you were speaking of, to fortify
your testimony.
Oates. Yes, my Lord, they are, I desire thev
may be heard.
L. C. J. By and by, when occasion is.
Jury. My Lord, I desire he may be asked
one question,
JL. C. J. Mr. Garraway, what question
would you ask him 1
Jury. Where it was that he saw Mr. Turner
at tbe consult ?
Oatct. I saw him at Fen wick's chamber,
where he was a member of tbe consult ; and
being so, I saw him sign the resolve of the king's
death.
L. C. J. Did you see him ?
Oates. Yes, I did.
Sir Cr. Levins. Then we desire Mr. Dugdak
may be sworn (which was done). Come, Mr.
Dugdak, pray will you tell my Lord and tb,e
jury what you know concerning Whitebread
and Harcourt ? first about Whitebread.
Dugdale. My Lord, I have very little ac-
quaintance with the man, I have seen him ar
Tuall, with my old Lady Aston.
L.C. J. When?
Dugdale. 1 dare not speak the time, but ap«
peal to him himself about the truth of it.
JL. C. J, Is it years ago ?
Dugdale* It is two or three years ago.
L C. J. Weil; what can you say against
him?
Dugdale. Mr. Whitebread did write a letter
that I saw under his own hand inclosed in a let-
ter from Mr. Grove to Mt Ewers, wherein he
gave Mr. Ewers a caution; to choose those that
were very trusty, it was no matter whether tbey
were gentlemen or no, so they would be but
stout and courageous ; this was the purport of
the letter, I cannot say the words exactly, but
that he should choose those that were hardy and
desperate to that purpose.
L. C. J. Pray where was ityoji saw that let-
ter?
Dugdale. AtTixall.
L. C. J. How came you to see it?
Dugdale. Because all tbe letters were di-
rected to me, that came to Mr. Ewers inclosed
in Mr. Grove's letters: and so I intercepted the
letter, and read it
JL C. J. What was Mr. Ewers ?
Dugdale. A Jesuit, my confessor ; for I was
entertained by Mr. Gavan to be in the conspi-
racy of the king's death, and so was I by several
others.
L. C. J. Yon were not acquainted with Mr.
Whitebread's handy were you ?
Du&dale. My Lord, I only came acquainted
with Mr. Whitehread's band, by seeing {uss
Octet. It was but one day, but, as near as I
remember, I saw yon twice that day; and I
will tell it you by a particular circumstance,
that I saw you in the afternoon when you were
a little illish, and there was a cordial brought
to you by an apothecary, that went by the
name of Walpoole.
L. V. J. Here is memory refreshed by a cir-
cumstance, you see. Whither was it brought
to him?
Odes. To Ireland's chamber.
Gavan. Who brought it, Sir ?
L. C. J. An apothecary, be says, whose
aasse was Walpoole.
Gavan. MyJord, I never saw Walpoole in
all my life.
L.C.J. I believe he is known welt enough,
snch aa one as Walpoole the apothecary. But
ask what questions you will.
Gates. I cannot say whether it was Walpoole.
limself or bis man, that brooght it.
Gaum. I do as truly believe there is a God,
an Heaven, and an Hell, as any one here does ;
as I hope for Salvation, as I hope to see God
m Heaven, I never saw Mr. Oates before the
day in January, when be says I had the periwig
on, and he did not know me : and as for July,
I calf God to witness, I never saw him then.
X. C. J. Too were in town in July ?
Groom, Upon my salvation, I was not in
London.
JL C. J. You will prove that by and by.
fenwtck. I hope, my lord, we may ask him
any questions io tbe Court, of our evidence, to
make things clear ?
L. C. J. Yes, you may.
Tamer. Did yon ever see me in all your life,
before yon saw me at Whitehall ?
Oates. You were then in a disguised habit,
and a nasty periwig, and I did not know you
so well.
lamer- You, at Whitehall, was pleased to
tell me, I went by another name.
Oates. I do not value names, but your per-
son; yon are tbe man.
JL C. J. You are the man, be says.
Turner. I>id von see me at the consult ?
Omies. I saw the man that speaks to me.
Turner. Who were there ? and how many
•era present r
Gate*. There were about forty or fifty.
L. C J. When you have but one name
asieee, then he can hit it right ; hut when you
awe so many names, then you are too hard
fcraim. •
Turner. Did you see me at the White-Hone ?
Oates. That I will not say ; for when tbey
were in lesser clubs or colloquies, I was sure of
setter acquaintance with them.
Turner. Where was it too saw me ?
- Oates. At Mr. Fen wick's chamber.
Turner. At Whitehall, you said it was at
Wiki-bouse.
Oatcs. Mj Lord, becaose the chiefest part of
fe console sat at Wild bouse, we called it all
^comaltat Wild-bouse.
L C. J. I see your defence will be little else
335] STATE TRIALS, SI Cjuw.es II. 167P-— IK*/ tf Thomgs WkUtbrtad, [58G
write « Latter at Tiaall, which be delivered
to me to send.
1+ C.J. I pray lei them understand you :
you say that Mr. Wkkebreaddid write a letter
to Mr. Ewers, inclosed in one from Mr. Grove,
wherein ke advised that he should entertain
lusty stout fellows, and no matter whether they
were gentlemen, or to that effect : now I ask
you, how you do know that was Whitebread's
hand ? or was it his name only that was to it ?
DugdaU. My Lord, I saw his name at it,
X. C. J. When you saw that letter, had you
seen his hand before ?
DugdaU. Yes, My Lord, I saw it to another
letter which I saw him write.
X. C. J. And that was like the band in the
letter to Ewers, was it ?
DugdaU. Yes I do almost positively swear it
was the same hand.
JL C. J. But what say you to Gavan and
Ewers?
DugdaU. There were several consultations
in Mr. Ewers' chamber, my own, and at Bos-
cobel, and several other places. Mr. Gavan
might be so ingenuous as to confess it.
X. C. Baron (William Montague, esq.)
What were those consultations for ?
DugdaU, For conspiriog the king's death,
and introducing of Popery. Mr. Gavan was
chiefly made use of at a good orator and learned
man, and a good scholar, to persuade people
into the design ; this I speak as to these per*
tons.
X. C. X fray go on, Sir, for you shall have
a fuU scope* for you never were a witness in any
of the trials before: and yon may take tout
own way, and you shall be heard, you shall not
be interrupted; for what you say is very con-
siderable.
Dugdale. One Meeting I think was in Sep-
tember last, it was at Tixall, and there was my
Lord Stafford, and several others.
JL C. X Was Gavan there I
DugdaU. Yes, Mr. Gavan was there ; I sup-
pose he will not deny it.
Mr. Justice Pemberton. Don't rely upon that,
he will deny it, you may be sure ; go on. You
say he was there?.
DugdaU. Yes, and that was' to carrv on the
design : and I was byto bear. I think nfr. Ire-
land was in the country then ; there was you
{speaking to Mr. Gavan), Mr. Peters, Mr.
Lewson, and Mr. Ewers, at this consult, and
there was another, my Lord Stafford, and others
that I cannot now name.
Gavan. What time?
Dugdale. It was in September, W78. -
Gavan, What day f
DugdaU. V think it was the gist of Sep-
tember.
X. C. X What was that consult and con-
apjracy about, in short ?
DugdaU. It was for the introducing of po-
Ky, and taking away the life of the king, I
ng a person chosen oat for that purpose, and
was to be sent to London by Mr. Uaceeun to
be under the tuition of M
, oy Mr. tu
r.ruMQ*.
X. C.J. Pray who mentioned this ? was that
the first time that ever they discoursed of the
death of the king f
DugdaU No my lord, it was two years ago,
but I speak of a shorter time.
L. C. X Who began the discourse ?
Dugdale, Mr. Gavan often discoursed of it,
and encouraged me to it.
X. C X Who broke it first to you f who
seemed the principal man ?
Dugdale. Ewers and Gavan.
X. C. J, By the oath that yon have taken,
repeat it once more, for this is new to us.
Gavan. It is so to me too upon my soul,
for upon my conscience I never beard of H be-
fore.
X. C. J. It is a mighty confirmation of what
was before discovered.
DugduU. But I speak to Mr. Gavan, and ap-
peal to him himself.
Gavan.. look upon me with confidence, if
you can.
Lord Justice Pemberton. Yen must not
threaten the king's witnesses.
DugdaU. Mr. Gavan, I desire you to inform
the lords and all here present whether I was
not under your tuition ? And whether you knew
any unjust action by me ?
Gavan. You were never under my tuition.
X. C. J. Did you ever know him ?
Gavan. Yes, my lord, he used to come some-
times where I was, and so we were acquainted ;
and I lived within eleven mile of TiialJ, my
lord Asian's, and having acquaintance in that '
family, Mr. Ewers, whom I know very well,
I used to come there sometimes, but I never
was in his chamber in my life. In what room
of my Lord Aston's boose was this discourse ?
Ihtgdale. Someofitwasin the little parlour,
and some in Mr. Ewers's chamber.
Gavan. Were any present there ? and who
were they ?
Dugdale. I have told you there was Mr.
Ewers, and Mr. Lewson, and Mr. Petrea, and
some others ; and for a further confirmation of
this that Mr. Gavan may know that I had a
great zeal for him, and that they did love me
well, I gave them an estate, or else I believe
they would not have trusted me so well as
they did. I gave them 400/. to pray for my
soul, and for the carrying on of this design ;
and when they told me they doubted they
should want money, I promised them lOOL
more for the carrying on the work. Upoa
which Mr. Gavan promised me that I should be
canonized for a saint.
Mr. Justice Pemberton. Mr. Gavan bhnaelf ?
DugdaU. Yes my lord. *
Mr. Belwood. What do you know of any fo-
reign assistance?
)LC. X I would lain have all the world bear
this; pray what was discoursed in the par-
lour in my lord Aston's house, and in Ewers's
chamber ?
DugdaU .It was about taking away ths
> king's, life, and introducing die Popish reA*.
■inn.
337] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cbam.es II. 1670*— <md drier* for Hag* Treason. [S39
X. C. /. By the oath you have taken, was
tbat their discourse ?
Dugdale. Yet my lord, they were contriving
how to kill the king and introduce popery.
Sir Crm Levins. Fray, have you heard any
discourse of an army, or about making a mas-
sacre?
Dugdale. It was spoken in my bearing, and
there was some discourse why they should expect
forces from beyond sea, and this gentleman
said (meaning Mr. Gavan} though they be-
yond the seas had troubles enough upon
themselves, yet if we could effect it, men and
money would not be wanting. I will add, no-
thing more than the truth in what I say.
L.C.J. You deliver your testimony like a
sober modest man, upon my word.
Sir Cr. Levins. What say you as to a mas-
sacre ?
Dugdale. My Lord, I have at some consul-
tations heard speak of it, but the chief thing
that they aimed at was, first, there was a letter
mat came out of Paris, aod came through Mr.
Harconrt'i hands, and so came down into
the country, to prove that it was the opinion of
them at Paris, and St. Omers, to fling all this
upon the Presbyterians, that is, the death of
the king ; tbat if any thing of that nature
should happen, they should be ready to give
die first alarm, aod give out, that » it was those
soli king-killing Presbyterians that had done
the fact : and so they thought they should
easily have brought in the Episcopal party into
their company to revenge themselves of the
Presbyterians.
L. C. J. It was pretty advice indeed to have
it first laid on the Presbyterians, that they
might get pro test ants to join and cut them off,
and then their own throats should be cut.
. Dugdale. And then, my lord, there was to
be a massacre ; and if any did escape that they
could not be sure of were papists, they were to
Lave an army to cut them off.
Mr. Belwood. Did he ever use any argu-
ments to you, to prove the lawfulness of the
design ?
Dugdale* Yes my lord, he hath, and shewed
me several examples for confirming me in it.
LC.J. What for killing the king ?
Dugdale. For the killing of any, to introduce
their own religion.
Mr. Beliwod. Pray, will you name some.
Dugdale. He endeavoured to prove it by
Scripture, I cannot now call the text to mind ;
bat it was to shew, how it was lawful and good
to destroy any for the advantage of their reli-
gion, and then he shewed the example of Fa-
ther Garnett ; — how several of his reliques
being beyond sea great miracles bad been done
by them.
L. C. J. And so now there is by St. Cole-
ftan too.
Sir Cr. Levin*. What letters have you re-
ceived from Mr. Harcourt.
Dugdale. I have received several pacquets
of letters from several persons beyond seas,
which were, by his instruction, communicated
TOL. VII.
by Mr. Grove to Mr. Ewers, which letters did
contain treason in them, for the introducing of
popery, and killing and destroying the king.
L. C.J. How run you tell that ?
Dugdale. Mr. Harcourt bath given it upder
his own hand, and I have intercepted the let*
tersand read them*
L. C. J. You were acquainted with the
hand?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. You read the letters f
Dugdale. Yes, my Lord, I did.
L. C. J. How many letters have you in-
tercepted ? Have you intercepted twenty ?
Dugdale. Ves, a hundred, my Lord. Mr.
Harcourt was the fin»t thai gave intelligence
into the country (as I know of) of the death
of sir Edmund bury Godfrey.
Sir Cr. Levins. Tell when it was given, and
how.
Dugdale. I have made it out already upo*
oath, and I have witnesses to prove, it.
Sir Cr. Levins. Pray, Sir, tell it now.
Dugdale. It was directed to Mr. Ewers,"
and it was three days before he was found, Cot
it was received on the Monday, and he, as it is
proved, was killed on the Saturday. The words
were these,- This very night sir Edmundbtfry
Godfrey is dispatched. And I very much re-?
jected Mr. Ewers for this action, and then told
him, This will overthrow the design, or I will be
banged.
L. C. J. What day did you receive the letter?
Dugdale. I have proved I received it on s>
Monday.
L. C. J. But pray what date did it bear*?
Dugdale. That letter must come by Satur-
day post, for it is said * This night sir Edmund-
* bury Godfrey is dispatched/
L. C. J. He did not name any body, by
whom ?
Dugdale. No, but it said he was killed, aid
we knew by whom.
Mr. Just. Pemberton. And are you sure that
was Mr. Harcourt's letter ?
Dugdale. Yes ; for he did usally sign his
letters with two letters W. H. which stood
either for Harcourt or Harrison.
Mr. Belwood. Did you acquaint any body
with this, or did you conceal it ?
Dugdale. I .did go to an alehouse that is
hard by my Lord's the next day, which wai
Tuesday, and there I asked, If they did not
hear some news of a knight's being killed at
London ? And I have on evidence here, if
your lordship please, I will call him, who, I
desire, may testify the same thing.
X. C. J. Yes, by all means.
Sir Cr. Levins. Mr. Dugdale, Pray, will yon
give us some more account of the letter thai
came from Mr. Whitebread to Mr. Ewers*
Dugdale. T remember one particularly, but
I cannot tell what number I have seen.
Sir Cr. Levins. Did you see more than that
one?
Dugdale. I particularly remember that.
L. C. J. What was thai one particularly t
Z
889] STATE TRIALS, 31 duto* IT. l67&—1\MtfThmasWkiteb*cad, [3*7
Chetwyn, pray swear him. (Which was done.)
L. C. J: Mr. Chetwyn, Do you remember
that Mr. Dugdale came to you any time last-
summer, and what time, and what discourse?
had you ?
Chetwyn, My Lord, if your lordship please,.
I was most part of the summer in the country,
I came into Staffordshire about the 29tb of
August. My Lord, there is a gentleman, oner
Mr. Sanbidger that is- a kinsman of my lord
Aston's, that was very well acquainted with*
the family where I was; which was half a mile?
off my Lord's, and used to come and play witb-
me at tables. My Lord, at that very time in*
October he came to me, and there says he, d&
you hear nothing of a justice of peace in West-
minster, where you live, that is killed ? Os*
to that effect. No, said I, and I had letter*
yesterday, and heard nothing of it. Sana he,
I was this morning at Elds, and there a girl of
the house told me, Mr. Dugdale had beer*
there, and reported that there was a justice of
peace of Westminster was killed ; but who hej
! should be I never heard named, and on Sato**
day following my letters brought it down to me.
L. C. J. When was it that this was spoken F
Chetwyn. It was Tuesday morning, (as I
remember) and that by a very good circum-
stance, I went that day for Litchfield, and tbr
Saturday after the news came to me to Liters* ■
field, that sir Edmundbury was found mur-
dered.
L. C. J. The jury would do well to observe
this in point of time. Sir E. Godfrey was
killed, as it was since proved, on Saturday, but
on Monday he was missed, on Thursday he was
found, and on Saturday the news was spread all
over the country. Now, said he, the Tuesday
before the news came down, which must be tits
Tuesday after the Saturday he was killed, ona>
comes from the alehouse and asks, Do you not
hear of a justice of peace at Westminster that is
killed; for the wench at yonder alehouse- says,
Mr. Dugdale was here this morning and re-
ported such a one was killed. So that it is
most notorious, as any thing in the world
can be, that this thing was known to them, be-
fore any of us knew what was become of him,
Mr. Just. Pemberton. How do yon farther
know it to be upon Tuesday ?
Chetwyn. I know it to be that Tuesday, nty
Lord, very well, for we all went about such a
time to my cousin's mother, to stay a week
there, and after I returned back, and on Tues-
day the 15th of October I went to the race to
Litchfield, and stayed till Saturday there, and
came thence to London, and was here ths
Wednesday, being the first day of the term.
But I remember particularly the first inform**
tion Mr. Dugdale gave in the country, came to>
my cousin's hands from the mayor of Stafford,
and I happened to see him, I think it was
Christmas day. It came inclosed in a letter.
! Upon the apprehension of Mr. Dugdale, I re*
\ member I met him, and he told me of it, aad
said he, the parliament did not sit that day r
So he went to acquaint the Lord lieutenant cif
- Har court. My Lord, I desire to ask him one
question, When was the last time that you re-
ceived any letters from me ?
, Dugdale. The last I received from you
(to the h«st of my remembrance) was that about
sir E. Godfrey, and it was in October.
Har court. I have not writ to that person
this year and a half.
L. C J. Let that man be called that proves
this business of- the death of sir Edmundbury,
and the talk of it.
Dugdale. Mr. Harcourt, you know very
well, that when Mr. Ireland was last in the
country last year, you were to send him the an-
swers that came by letters from St. Otners, and
those were sent down- to my lord Aston's, and
I saw them, eight of those letters, I am sure.
And I can prove It by ooe circumstance ; two
of them came relating to Mr. Edward Aston's
death, from Paris ; I intercepted them, and
talking of it, that I could conjure, and tell the
death of Mr. Edward Aston, before any of Iris
friends knew of it. And Mr. Ireland writ a
chiding letter about it, that he had not heard it
sooner, and you sent down word, That you did
write those letters, and yet you say you have
hot written to me of a twelvemonth, or more.
Harcourt.* This gentleman does pretend to
know my hand, and it is true, I have writ several
letters for Mr. Ewers, and directed to him ; but
as to this time he speaks of, I hate left off writ-
ing for divers years. He pretends to know me,
and yet this gentleman before the Committee of
Commons in parliament, which was yesterday
was five weeks, as well as he knew my hand, came
and said I was a gentleman he did not know.
He came also to entrap me at the Gate-house
before those gentlemen of the Committee of
the House of Commons ; but because he said
he knew my hand so very well, and testifies
those expressions in the letter, I must say this,
I never did write any such letter, nor did I
ever in my life seem to approve of any man's
death or murder. But the thing is this, he
pretends to know my hand and to prove it,
the gentlemen desired me to write my own
hand and my name, and he in the mean time
did withdraw, and three of them did write their
names, and afterwards they called him in again,
and asked him which was Harcourt's hand, and
he was not able, to say which it was.
X. C. J. You write more hands, as well as
have more names, and can counterfeit your
hands, as well as change your names.
Mr. Just. Pemberton. You speak before your
lime, and your bare word goes for nothing.
L. C. J. But, Mr. Dugdale, where is your
witness ?
. Hareourt. I do 'not know any thing of this.
X. C. J. But if he calls up a witness, of
whom you can have no suspicion, that can tes-
tify, that at this time Mr. Dugdale spoke about
the death of sir E. Godfrey, what will you say
to that ?
Harcourt. I believe there is no such thing
Stall.
Sir Cr. Lninx, My Lord, hers is Mr.
UTJ STATE TRIALS, SI Crawls IL m9.—md others, for High Treason. f 34*
the county, that is, the duke of Monmouth,
with it, who carried it to the king. But when
Mr. Dngdale was sent for, my cousin went
dawn, and writ me a good character of him.
As soon aa ever Dngdale came to town, before
be went to be examined by the council, as I re-
•ember I went with some gentlemen to speak
with htm, and said I 10 him, * Can you say any
4 thing 'about sir E. Godfrey's death?* Sauh
he, I remember such a letter came at such
a rime from father Harcourt to* Father
Ewers, wherein were these words ; This night
sir E. Godfrey is dispatched. And said he, I
remember I asked the Question of Ewers, Is
not this likely to spoil all the design? No,
said he, he was a man that prosecuted persons
that went to debauched houses, and it will be
said to be some of them that did revenge them-
selves of him ; or words to the same effect,
libs ssade me recollect the time I had the dis-
course with the gentlemen in the country. I
happened to be out of town when the murder-
ers of sir JE. Godfrey were tried ; as soon as I
«uae to town, and round that the murderers of
sir Ednendburr Godfrey were condemned, I
was at a coSee-house enquiring how it was ma-
naged; some I found slighted it, others did
Atftaow wha&Jto make of it. Was not Mr.
Dngdale there ? said I. No, said they. Then
I presume, said I, that a very material evi-
dence was omitted. Upon this I went to Mr.
Dagdale's chamber, and there, said I to hirn^
What was the reason you were notproduced as
aa evidence, at .the trial of sir E. Godfrey's
saarderens ? Said I, you told such a thing, and
I hope you told truth, for I do not hear that
Ton nave ever contradicted it, that you saw a
letter about the Monday after he was murdered.
la my judgment it is very material, if you have
•worn it, if your deposition be true, or else
yea did ill Co report it. Said I, Pray let me
see the copy of your deposition sworn before
die council. He shewed it me, and there was
not a syllable of it, that I could see, but after-
ward* appeared to be there.
X. C. J. That is not very material, if the
thing itself be true.
Chetwyn. But it is not being there, made
ae remember it.
Recorder. Pray set up Mr. Dugdale again.
Now pray tell the contents of Mr. White-
bread's letter.
Dugdalt. The contents of it was, to en-
oarage Mr. Ewers to go on, to he careful whom
he did intrust, that they should be such fellows
as were desperate, hardy, courageous, and stout,
or to that purpose ; it was no matter whether
ihey were gentlemen or no, so they were hot
courageous and desperate.
Just. Atkins. What were they to do ?
DugdaU. For the killing of the king.
Z. C.J. Was that in Wuitebread's letter?
DugdaU. Mr. Whitebread did write those
words, they were in the letter.
Whitebread, Was that very word in the
letter, for killing the king ?
DugdaU. It was, that t^ey should be stent
Ind courageous peisons,
L. C. J. For what end ?
DugdaU. It was for taking away the king's life, .
X. C. J. I ask you, recollect yourself, was it
by way of description of some design or plot,
that those persons were to be chosen outr Or
was it in downright words, '.for killing the king?'
DugdaU. To the best of my remembrance
they were those very words.
L. C. J. It was much he would write such
words in a letter. i
DugdaU. I was one that was made choice of
about it.
Justice Pemberton. Were you to be one J „
DugdaU. Yes, I was.
Justice F * ember ton. Mr. Gavan, you know
who it was you entertained for this business, and
you could trust them.
JL C. J. How were these letters conveyed ?
Were they sent by the ordinary post ?
DugdaU. Yes, they were, and they trusted
me with them, because being diif cted to me, if
they were intercepted, I should be banged, and
they saved.
Justice Pemberton. Upon these letters, what
were you entertained to do ?
DugdaU. My Lord, 1 was entertained be?
fore by my Lord Stafford and Mr. Ewers.
Justice Pemberton. What to do ?
DugdaU. To kill the king.
Whitebread. Pray, Sir, how came you to
see these letters? Did you intercept them, and
read them yourself?
DugdaU. I did intercept them, and open
them of my own self.
Whitebread. Pray take notice of what he
says, gentlemen.
Recorder. The jury do take notice.
X. C Baron. Do you know any thing against
Mr. Turner and Mr. Fen wick ?
DugdaU. Mr. Ewers hath told me by word
of mouth, that he was to carry on the design
in Worcestershire, but I saw him with Mr.
Ewers and Lewson, and others, when he was
going to his brother Tamer's then in Notting-
hamshire, and they did consult and agree there
in my bearing, to all that I have -said before.
Turner. What did I assent to ?
DugdaU. Why this design, you and Mr.
Ewers and Lewson, and others agreed Xo what
I said before.
burner. Where was this ?
DugdaU. At Tixall and other plaees.
Turner. In what month ?
DugdaU. It was oboist two years ago, about
the beginning of the business,,
Turner. Where was it ?
DugdaU. It was at Mr. Ewers's chamber.
You know. me very well.
Turner. I have not been in Staffordshire thess)
four years.
L. C. J. Why don't you know him, Mr. Tur-
ner?
Turner. I do know I have beau -there a mat-
ter of three or four times in my whole life, but
have not been there these four years.
Justice Windham. Have you any thing to say
against Fenwicki
343] ST ATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 167P.— Trial of Thomas WUtdrtad, [S44
Dugdale. I don't know that I ever taw him
before.
Recorder. But be speaks fully as to the
other four.
Sir Cr. Letinz. Call Mr. Prance, add swear
him. Which was done.
Sir Cr. "Levinz. Come on, Mr. Prance.
What can you say to Mr. Fen wick or any of
the others?
Prance. Mr. Har court, I made him an image
of our Lady about a year ago, and when 1 was
receiving money for it, (it was to be sent into
Maryland) you told me then that there was a
design of killing the king.
L. C. J. Who told you ?
Prance. Mr. Harcourt, that very time.
Sir Cr. Levinz. When was it ?
Prance. It was when it was sent to Mary-
laud, in the Portugal's country : you know it
well, Mr. Harcourt.
Harcourt. I know nothing of it.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Pray let him alone, till we
have done with him.
Harcourt. I desire but to know when it was.
Prance. When I received the money for the
picture, it was a year ago.
Sir Cr. Levinz. What say you to Mr. Fen-
wick ?
Prance. I was in Mr. Ireland's chamber in
Russel-strcet, and there was Ireland, Fen wick,
and Grove, and they were talking of 50,000
men that should be raised, and be in readiness
to carry on the catholic cause, and settle the
catholic religion. I asked who should govern
them ? They told me, my lord Bellasis, my
lord Powis, and my lord Arundel.
L. C. J. Who told you so ?
Prance. Mr. Fenwick.
L. C. J. How long ago ?
J?rancc. About a fortnight Michaelmas last,
fir. Grove came to me two or threes days after-
wards, to buy two or tliree silver spoons to give
away at a christening, and then I asked him,
what office he should be in ? He told me, he
could not tell : But he to)d me, my lord Arun-
del, my lurd Bellasis, my lord Petre, and my
lord Powis had commissions for these things to
jive,
L. C. J. This Grove told yon.
Prance. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. But what did Fenwick tell you ?
Prance. He told me who were to govern the
.army, my lord Bellasis, my lord Powis, and my
lord Arundel of Wardour.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Had he any discourse with
yon about trade ?
Prance. He said, I should not fear trade, I
should have church work enough.
Mr. Belwood. Pray speak that again.
Prance. I asked him, what shall we poor
tradesmen do, if we have civil wars in England ?
O, said he, you need not fear having trade
enough, von shall have church work, enough,
to make images, chalices, and crucifixes, and
vases, and such like things.
Mr. Belwood. If you will ask Mr. Prance any
questions^ pray do.
Fenwick. My lord, I am certain of this, that
he never saw me at Mr. Ireland's chamber, in
that company, nor did I ever speak of any
such thine before him.
Prance. Mr. Ireland and he have been sit-
ting together whole hours and consulting about
some concern or other, mischief no doubt. My
lord, I went to Mr. Fen wick's chamber, after
my ghostly father was dead.
L. C /. What was his name ?
Prance. Father James. And he importu-
ned me to come to confession to him ; 1 told
him, I was not yet very well satisfied who I
should go to, to be my ghostly father.
Fenwick. When was this Mr. Prance ?
Prance. Before Michaelmas, about a week
or eight days.
L. C. J. Did not you know him, Mr. Fen*
wick ?
Fenwick. Who, father James ? yes, very well,
and I know Mr. Prance, but not upon that ac-
count.
Prance. And I brought, you a bell home, for
the altar, at the same time.
Justice Pembertan. Who was it importuned
you |o have him for vour confessor?
Prance. It was Mr. Fenwick; and I told
him, when I did come to confession, I would
come to him. And he enjoined me, once or
twice, to say nothing of what I had heard said.
L. C. J. If Harcourt have any questions to
ask him, let him.
Harcourt. Can you say that ever I spoke to
you about any such business?
Prance. Yes, as sure as I stand in this place,
and you in that. And one Thompson came
with you, when you paid me for four candle-
sticks.
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Thompson t
Harcourt. Yes, I do.
L. C. J. Had you any candlesticks from Mr.
Prance ?
Harcourt. I had a great while ago.
Prance. He paid me 44/. that time for them.
Recorder. Call Mr. fi< dlow. Who was sworn.
Sir Cr. Levinz. What can you say, as to any
of the prisoners at the bar ?
L. C. J. What can you say, as to Mr. White*
bread and Mr. Fenwick ?
Bedlow. My lord, I do not question, but Mr.
Whitebread and Mr. Fenwick will object against
me, my refusing to give in cvideuce against
them at the former trial ; but 1 think that there
are some upon your honourable bench, that can
make my apology fur not giving in all my evi-
dence against them then ; for it was not conve-
nient, because it would have stopped a design I
was then upon, and could not get off from, that
was about Mr. Reading, whom I was then
treating with, for Mr. Whitebread and Mr. Fen-
wick, as well as the lords in the Tower, and he
told me, that he would depend upon my confi-
dence and justice as to the lords, according ess
I did deal with these men ; if I brought them
off, he would believe, and the lords in the Tower
would believe, that I would bring them off too.
So that I did make an apology then in top
M5] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679 — and others, for High Treason. [346
Court, chat I could not safely say all that I bad
to say at that time. Some of the justices, I be>
lieve, do remember it, and in that which I did
fire in against them, I did not say all, nor half,
that 1 could have said.
W kit e bread. Did you say any thing of that
at the last trial ?
Bedltm. I «ill answer that matter to the
Court, bvt it is the measure they always take
to in trap the witnesses ; for now lam out of a
country that wilt give me an indulgence and
dispensation to speak exactly to a day, or an
boor, as their St. Omer's witnesses have.
L- C. J. But what say you now to them ?
Bedlow. 1 did then say, that I did see Mr.
Wbifebread, and he hath been in several con-
sultations for the carrying on of the Plot ; but
then I did it with a caution, that I never heard
of Mr. Whitebread, thai he was so very much
concerned ; and indeed I had no reason to say
an, because 1 heard him myselt', and could not
well speak from the hearsay of another. And
safer Mr. Fen wick, I never heard him give in
any answer, but I have seen Fenwick at the
consult there.
L. C. J. Have they ever told you any thing
concerning the killing of the king?
Bedisw. Wbitebread told Coleman, at Mr.
Jfercourt'a chamber, the manner of sending the
four radians to Windsor, abont September.
Har court. I never saw him twice in all my
fife before.
Mr. Befaeood. Do you know of any reward
thos? ruffians were to have ?
Bedlam. Yes, I saw Harcourt take the mo-
ney out of a cabinet, I think it was fourscore,
or 100/. ; the sum I do not well remember.
Harcourt paid them the money, by Mr. Cole-
man's order, and gave the messenger a guinea
from Mr. Coleman, to drink his health. Mr.
Coleman was gone a little before I came in, and
so I could not know that Coleman gave it, but
be said so.
Sir Cr. Levin?. What was Pickering aad
Grove to have ?
Bedlam. Grove was to have 1,500/. and a
promise of tbe favour of the lords : 1,500/. was
the sum appointed at Mr. Harcourt's chamber,
and doubtless in several other places, but there
I beard it from Mr. Wbitebread, and Prit chard,
sad Le Fairer apd Kaines ; and Pickering was
to hare a number of masses, I cannot tell ex-
actly how many, but they were so many, as at
IS**, a mast would amount to be equal to Mr.
Grove.
Mr. Belwood. Pray, sir, what was that for ?
Bedlow. For killing the king. But Pickering
bad been disciplined before, and received a
check from the superiors, because he had been
negligent and slipped many opportunities. One
time the flint of me pistol was loose, another
time there wa$ no powder in the pah, another
fan* be nad;£harged whji all bullets, and no
po»oer. -,;
L C. J. '." Did you see Harcourt deliver the
{vara, for the eipeditiou of the Windsor busi-
mi
Bedlow. Yes, my lord, as from Coleman, to
drink his health.
Mr. Belwood. Pray, was either Wbitebread
or Fenwick knowing of the agreement, when it
was spoken of?
Bedlow. I have seen Fenwick at Harcourt's
and Whitehead's chamber, when it was spoken
oi ; they were ail of one opinion, they had de-
creed il I never saw YVhitebread but twice
at Harcourt's chamber, wbeie one time was
Harcourt himself; at another time a a* Pnicbard,
aud Le Faire, and others; at which time sir
George Wakeman's business was spoken of,
and because he would not accept the. 10,000/.
15,000/. was agreed to be given him; and upon
sn George's trial, 1 shall lei you know where he
had the money too, but 1 desire to be excused
at present. 1 shall speak it to-morrow.
i. C. J. What did they consult there?
Bedlow. They were consulting how it should *
be done; and what should be done, if they did
not do it. Iheu Ireland proposed, that tbe
most certain way was to do it at his morning
walks in Newmarket ; 1 en wick was to go, and
with him went Conyers; 1 heard seven or eight
of them were to go.
I^C. 2*aron\Alontague.) What say you to
Turner?
BedLw. Of Mr. Turner, I know nothing,
but what I have heard others say.
X. C. JB. What say you to Gavan ?
Bedlow. I know nothing of him, but only I
have heard Mr. Harcourt say he bath beeu a
great manager of this business.
L. C. J. This is nothing to the purpose,
what others say.
Bedlow. Mr. Harcourt is no stranger to my
bringing of packets and portmanteaus over to
him, from beyond the seas.
Harcourt. He never brought but one in all
his life time.
Bedlow. What, did I never bring but one
packet ? Have not I brought divers and divers
portmanteaus ?
Harcourt. You never brought a portman-
teau in your life.
Bedlow. I have brought divers.
Harcourt. You know 1 never saw you bat
twice in my life, before to-day, and when I met
with you at the privy council.
Bedlow. My lord, the trials have been so put
off, that I could never get all my witnesses toge-
ther, but I liave beven or eight of my witnesses
that are out of town, that would make this very
dear. My lord, there was never a packet of
letters that I brought over to Mr. Harcourt, but
dldHtontain in it a design of the subversion of
the government; and it must be more than two
Eackets that 1 have brought over ; fur I have
rought letters from Watton, and letters from
St. Omers, and letters from Bruges, and from
Paris, and from Valladohd and Salamanca;
and all these letters contained in them the ma-
nagement of this plot, how far they had pro*
ceeded beyond sea, and answers how far they
had proceeded in England, from him, and to
them, to and again, from time to time, in carry*
317 J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Tried qf Thoma* Whitebread, [346
iiig on the design of subverting the. government,
and altering the religion ; wherein was given an
account of the array and forces that were to be
raised, both here, and beyond sea; what con-
tributions were made, or expected, at home or
abroad, all was lodged in Mr. Harcourt's hand,
at leastwise an account of the greatest part.
And I have been sent to Mr Langhorne with
papers from Harconrt, about this affair, to re-
gister them ; and of that I shall give you an ac-
count, upon Mr. Langborne's triaj.
X. C. J. Well, now ask him what you will.
Whitebread. Sir, I desire to ask you one
question.
Bed low. I desire it may be asked the Court.
Whitebread. I desire to ask him whether be
was a lieutenant in Flanders or no I
Bedlow. Yes, I was.
Whitebread. .Of horse, or foot?
Bedlow. Of foot.
Whitebread. Take notice, there is no such
officer of foot in all Flanders.
Bedlow. I was then in the regiment of the
prince of Friezland.
Whitebread. There are no lieutenants in all
the Flanders companies, only Captains aud
Alfara's.
Bedlow. My lord, I had a commission, and
Ibave a commission to be so, and I desire I
may send for it.
L.C.J. It is no very material thing ; as soon
as it comes, ibey shall see your commission.
Harcourt. You say you have had papers
from me, and been very familiar with me:
Pray, how can this be, when, as I did declare
before the lords in council, that was the third
time I ever saw your face? The first time he
•came Co me, be brought letters from Dunkirk,
five years ago ; when I opened them I found
.them directed to other persons, and to them I
sent thtm, my name being only used in the
outside cover; and it seems upon that confi-
dence that lie bad in me at that time, not long
after, he came to my chamber, and told me,
He had lately become a Roman Catholic, and
by that means had lost bis friends, and that he
then was in want, and, unless I did assist him,
it would be very hard with him ; though his
father deserted him, yet he had some friends,
whom he expected would do something for
lym, and then I will repay you.
X. C. J. When was this?
Harcourt. The second time that I ever saw
bim in my life, and this is four years since.
Then said I, what will serve your turn? He told
me 20*. which I lent to him ; and I never saw
his face afterwards, till I met him at the privy-
council ; and therefore, how should a man be-
lieve a word he says ?
L> C. J. But how shall a wan know, tb^t
what you say is true ?
Bedlow. I will make it appear, at the trial
of the lords, that I sent to him for 10/. and
bad it. I cannot now prove it, without bring-
ing some witnesses that I have behind a cur-
tain, and I will not discover them till then, they
•bail not know who they are.
Mr. Just. Windham. Will jou ask him any
-questions ?
Bedlow, My lord, I haye not said the one*
hundredth part of what I can say, honestly, and
like a Christian, of Mr. Harcourt.
Harcourt. You may say what you will, Lut
you will not speak truth.
4 Bedlow. Mr. Harcourt went with me to Mr.
Coleman's, when I carried over the consult.
There was the greatest part of the design, in
that which I was to carry over to St. Omers,
and that consult did I fetch from Mr. Coleman,
and Mr. Harcourt was with me, and I bad
thauks from Mr. Coleman for my fidelity in
the business, and expedition in bringing and
carrying the pacquets. I was recommended
to my lord Arundel by Mr. Harcourt, and was
promised, by bis lordship, all the friendship and
favour imaginable, when the times were turned.
L. C. J. Why here, you see, he names several
places and times, wherein he met with you.
Harcourt. Not one word of all this is true.
Bedlow. I desire you to ask Mr. Harcourt,
my lord, Whether he was not in August, or
Sept. last, in company with me and Le Fa ire *
Harcourt. Le Fa ire ! I know no Le Faire.
Bedlow. Le Fevre, then.
Harcourt. Le Fevre, I believe I did see at
that time, but not since.
Bedlow. Prit chard did recommend the care
of me to him.
X. C. J. There, he names another time,
when you and Pritchard were there together.
Bedlow. Pritchard was my confident, and
my great friend, and told them, This is a per*
son whose fidelity you have tried, in carrying
over such and such letters, and therefore you
may very well trust him, and take care of him :
And so he recommended me, as one that waa
really fit to understand the bottom of the de-
sign. And Pritchard did -tell me, before them,
that the king's death was intended as a part of
it ; and he sent again another time to Mr. Har-
court, but it was about no material business;
and Harcourt gave a Bill of Exchange to carry
to what citizen I do not know, but to sir George)
Wakcman, to have 2,000/. by whose orders, ae
they said, your lordship shall know upon his
trial, but I saw Harcourt give him the Bill of
Exchange.
Mr. Just. Thlben. Who gave the Bill ?
Bedlow. It was Harcourt, my lord.
Harcourt. Who was by, when this Bill waa
given ?
Bedlow. Kaines, and sir William AndersoQ.
Harcourt. How was this Bill drawn ?
Bedlow. It was drawn upon a citizen, and
left in your hands.
Harcourt. I desire he may name the citizen,
and, if he can, make it out; if he do, it will ap-
pear unen the merchant's books.
Bedlow. Sir George Wakeman received m>
Bill of Exchange from Mr. Harcourt, and hie
was told, Here is a Bill of Exchange for 2,000/.
as part of a greater sum ; to which sir George
Wakeman answered, That 15,000/. was .m.
snail reward for the settling of religion, asvd
0 ■*■
349] STATE TRIALS, Si Charles B. 1679.— -and others, for High Treason. ' [340
preserving of the three kingdoms from ruin-;
kit if it were not for such a woman, he would
never undertake it, but for her he would do any
thing. And after he had given sir George
Wakeman the Bill, sir George Wakemnn open-
ed it, and read it, but I did not tead the name
(hat was to it.
Feavick. Aly Lord, it seems not sufficient
proof, that he saw a hill of exchange, unless
be says from whom, and to whom, that it may
be pnrved by the books, or otherwise.
L. C. J. You say well, Mr. Fenwick, if so
be be had been the person concerned in the-
bill, that he were either one that drew it, or waa
id receive the money, then it was strange that
be should not know the parties to it : but I
must tell you, where he was not one nor the
stber, it was a collateral matter. Do people
take notice of every particular hill of exchange
(bat they see, whicn they are neither to pay nor
receive?
FeasMcfc. But what reason does he give your
Mslnp, or the jury, to believe there were such
abut, unless he does produce either the bill, or
the penoo that paid it ?
Bedbse. I did only see the "bill out of Mr.
Barcoart's hand, but it was read there only by
sir George Wakeman.
L C. J. Is it a pin matter, whether there
was such a bill or no, or whether he had men-
tioned if or no ?
itwrkfe* But seeing he hath mentioned it, I
say there is nothing of proof of it, but only his
bare word.
L. C. J. Yes, there is his oath.
Sir O. Levin 2. And I desire the jury to take
ftoftce how unreasonable a thing it is that you
ask. You would have Mr. Bedlow produce the
bffl of exchange, that was given to sir George
Wakeman to receive the money.
Bcdlew. I have only one word more. Sir-
George Wakeman received the bill of exchange
from Mr. Harcourt, read it himself, folded it
up, and went and received the money ; and
that the court will be pleased to see my com-
tabsion, for now 1 have it here.
Which was read by my Lord Chief Justice
North* said several others.
Sir Crm Levinz. We have only this one matter
to trouble your lordship and the jury with.
Yoa perceive that hath been given, that the
main matter begins at the consult of the 24th
of April, vf hen the consult was ; now to fortify
this evidence, we are now to produce a letter,
that was written from one Petre, at St. Oraers,
a Jesuit, wherein is mention made, that he was
to give notice, Mr. Whitebread had appointed
a general meeting, just at that time, in London,
at which they were to consult of very great mat-
ters ; and they were to be very private in their
coming to, and appearing about the town. And
this letter was taken amongst Mr. Harco art's
pipers, and to prove it, we call sir Thomas
Doieman. [Who was sworn.]
Sir C. Levinz. Pray, what can you say where
tits letter was found ?
Sir Thomas Doleman. It was found amongst
Mr. Harcourt V papers, in a bag of his paperf
that wat committed to my care to search.
L. C. J. Can you tetl me what day you found
it?
Sir Thomas Dolman. It was a matter of si*
or seven days after Mr. Oates had given his in*
formation of this plot to the council.
Harcourt. What paper is it?
Mr. Justice Atkins. Hear it first.
L. C. J. It is a letter -found amongst your
papers.
Harcourt. Who is it from ?
1m C. J. It is from one Mr. Petre, do you
know Buch a one?
Ci of the Cr. It is sabscribed, E. P.
Harcourt. Yes, my Lord, I do ; I will deny
nothing of the truth.
Then the letter was read, in hoc verba,
* Honoured Dear Sir,
' I have but time to convey these following1
< particulars to you. First 1 am to give yoa
< notice, that it haih seemed fitting to our muster
« consult, prov. &c. to fix the 21st of April next, >
< Stilo veteri, for the meeting, at London, of our"
< congregation ; on which day, all those that
« have a suffrage, are to be present there, that
< they may be ready to give a beginning to the
< same on the 24th, which is the next day after
1 St. George's day : you are warned to havejus
* suffragii, and therefore, if your occasions
< should not permit you to be present, you are
' to signify aj much, to the end, bthers in their
' ranks, be ordered to supply your absence*
' Every one is minded, also, not to hasten to
1 London long before the time appointed, nof
* to appear much about the town, till the meet*
' ing be over, lest occasion should be given to
' suspect the design. Finally, secrecy, as to
< the time and place, is much recommended to
* all those that receive summons, as it will
' appear of its own nature necessary. Tertio
1 pro Domino Solono Disco. Bencfact. Prov.
' Luniensis.
* I am straightened for time, thut I can only
< assure you, I shall be much glad of obliging
« yoa any ways. Sir, your servant, Edward
1 Petre.
L. C. J. Come, now, Mr. Harcourt, will yori
expound this letter to me, that speaks of this '
meeting and privacy ?
Harcourt. Yes, my Lord ; though it was not
my Letter, yet I will tell you what the meaning
ot it was. That letter was writ to one, who
had jus suffragii, a right to come and vote ia
our congregation, which, according to the con-
stitution and orders of our society, w within the
compass of three years, where they meet about
the particular affairs of the society.
L. C. J. What was it about ?
Harcourt. It was about choosine an officer;
choosing a procurator to send to Rome ; that
was the chief point : and secrecy was a thing
that was recommended to every one, as it wa*
fit it should be, we living in a country whtr*.
551] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Thomas Whitehead, [S5S
•very one's eye w*» upon as, and we were an
eye-sore to them, we ought to be cautious of
meeting in such numbers, as might give an of-
fence ; and this was the only thing indeed.
JL C. J. Look you, Mr. Harcourt, you say
well, but we are not to be altogether disciples
of yours, so as to have no sense of our own,
and to be imposed upon so weakly as this.
Here is the thing, says the letter, I would not
hate you come too soon to London, nor appear
too much in public, for fear of discovering a
design which requires secresy in its own nature.
What, was tliat your design of choosing a pro-
curator ? Tell me but one thing that can near
the name of a design, which must have that
secrecy in it, that people must not appear much
about town, and that in its own nature requires
such, a thing.
Whitehead. My lord, the thing itself is evi-
dent, what was the design.
JL C. J. Come, Mr. Whitebread, you will
do it better.
Whitebread. It is evident it was a design to
choose an officer.
£. C. J. Why, good Mr. Whitebread, do
any write after that manner ? Were ypu to write
to any. one, or ask the jury, if they were to *
choose, some collector for the receipt of some
charitable money that should be employed for
the relief of protestants in France : Do you
think any man would say, Do not appear much
in London before hand, nor come too soon, for*
fear of discovering the design, which in its own
nature requires secrecy : will this endure the
pame of design ?
Whitebread. First, it is a very hard thing to
bring so many mens lives in danger, merely
upon the interpretation of a word, which niny
as properly signify one thing as another. Is it
not proper for me to say, I have a design to
dine with such a man to-morrow, or the like?
L. C. J. It is true now, but hearken
Whitebread. But that was the thing design-
ed, to have a congregation for the choosing of
an officer, and it was, I think, very properly
said ; and that it should be kept secret, was as
prudential a thing as possibly could be. Was
it not proper here, because our profession was
not publicly permitted in this kingdom ; and
therefore that was the reason why secrecy was
enjoined ? and this, upon my salvation, was all
that ever was intended or thought.
L. C. J. North. This now is the interpreta-
tion you put upon the letter, but we understand
by the witnesses what was done at that meet-
ing.
L. C. J. Look yon, Mr. Whitebread, this
letter, without question, hath been well studied
by you all ; and it requires it mightily.
whitebread. It needs none.
L. C. J. This is not the natural eiposition
of the words of the letter, that you give, but a
forced one ; for first, there is a difference be-
tween saying, 1 do design to dine to-day, though
it be a n*ual matter, but it is another thing,
when I eall a thing by the name of a design,
accompanied with a requiring of secrecy in its
own nature, and when JL give advice that they
must not appear in town too soon, nor too much
about the town, for fear of discovering the, de-
sign, which in its own nature requires secrecy :
Must all this amount but to the choosing of an
officer ? You will never make one papist of all
this company, if you make no better work
of it.
Whitebread. My lord, I humbly desire your
lordship would not strain a* word which may
be well enough said, whether it be properly said
or no.
X. C. J. It is not one word alone, but it is
the whole sense.
Whitebread. It is evident, there was just
cause of secrecy, because of our profession.
L. C. J. Mr. Whitebread, It is not one
word that is relied upon, for the business ia
pursued. It is not said, pray meet at such si
time, but, Be careful you do not discover the
design ; if it had. been only said so, it would
have been a strain, to have made this construc-
tion of a single word, to make this that design ;
but as it is here, we make no such construction;
it had been hard indeed to put that meaning
upon it as yon do, even then, for it is seldom
so used, for no man writes after that manner ;
but, when it follows in a continued sense of so>
many lines, ' he sure you meet on the 24th of
April, the day after St. George's day, but come
not too soon to town, nor appear too much
about the town for fear of discovering the de-
sign, which you know in ifs own nature doea
require secrecy ;' can we make any such inter-
pretation of it ? If you have no better argu-
ments than these, you must have people lose
their understandings, or have a very blind obe-~
dience to yours, or it will never down. Ay ;
come, Mr. Gavan, how do you say is the mean-
ing of this ?
Gavan, For my part, I will assure your lord-
ship, I. was not there ; but this is known to all
the christian world, that there is such a meet-
ing in Spain, France, Germany, ore. that wher-
ever the Jesuits are, once in three years they
have a meeting among themselves, for the set-
tling of their affairs. Indeed the words have
given your lordship an occasion to raise a diffi-
culty, what the word ' design' should mean f
which I do give thi> answer to : Your lordship's
difficulty is, That thewrd ' design/ here, should
be made ; use of to send one poor Jesuit to
Rome. Mv lord, do but mark the end of the
congregation, and you will say to us, that we
might well use that word, because the word
may impoit some great business of concern-
ment; now what business of greater concern-
ment for poor religious men to meet together
about, rhau those things that may promoter
thtir better state in another world,, and tie re-
gulation of what is amiss in their order.
My lord, iron my conscience and salvation^
this wus the end of the congregation, to meet;
and see wtut is amiss in their order, who do
the ir duties, a.id who not, who are irregular so
their offices, aud whose office is vacant, and
be supplied.
JJ3] STATS TRIALS, SI CfUftuu II. ItttWaarf others, Jbr High Treat**. [354
£. & J. But most nobody come to town,
•or appear too much about the town, for this f
Gene*, Therefore, my lord, at to the word
design, it coaceraing the whole spiritual good
of toe whole body of the , English Jesuits, it
migbt well be used for the consultation of
that body about ail their good, temporal and
spiritual, which was all concerned in it.
L, C. /. These are a many words, but' to no
purpose.
Gavan. Now, my lord, for the second thing
that you object, your lordship remembers very
welly that the continuation of the sense in so
many lines, mode the thing the more euspi~
cioas, that more was intended by it than so :
Now due I shall be able to answer, if there can
ho givjeu a particular reason why we should add
that word of secrecy, to the other of design ;
basing answered to the oue part, we now give
as answer to the other, and so to the whole.
Mow, my lord, because of the time, the parlia-
msait was then sitting, and that we mijht not
ofead the kins^ and all aril magistrates
(whom we honour from our hearts and souls),
that word was used that it might be kept
L. C. J. It was not out of love to the par-
liament, it was the nature of the thing required
u* nor was it out of mar you had of them. I
did never fiad» though you are as good at it as
ever any I met with (for I never met with a
priest that had much more understanding) ;
Vat really yoa do not answer me. You are
so far from scholars, and arguing like such, that
you do not maintain the matter with common
nasi rational understanding, but only heap up
to many vain words, (like a rope of sand put
together) which bath no natural coherence;
for you eanaot possibly make this reasonable,
that people should have so much caution, that
they should not come too long to town before-
Goawn. Not to be taken notice of.
L. C. J. Not to appear in town when they
Geaaa. Not to be taken notice of.
L.C.J.I say so, you cannot tell why all
these cautions - should be used, merely for
choosing an officer.
Guana. My lord, our lives depended upon it,
if we were taken, being such men as we are.
L. C. J. You can make nothing of it, and
sou will nod it an hard task to answer it ; for
jf half the evidence that hath been given were
not given, yet this letter of your own, which
cannot be denied, is an unanswerable proof.
It does monstrously confirm Mr. Oates** testi-
mony to be undeniable, as to the meeting at
the consult ; for he, four of five days before-
hand, comes and tells the council, the very day
which, five or six days after, this letter makes
pod, which is found in Harcourt's custody.
Then there was a consultation upon the day,
the very day that Mr. Oates says, and what he
calls a consultation, your own letter says is a
11.
Gown. It was a design of a congregation.
TOB. Tib.
X. C. J. What sense is there in that ? Will
any man ia England, or did any man in Eng-
land ever say, take need of discovering our
design of going to church, or choosing a col-
lector?
Gmvam. There is reason for the one, and
reason for the other too.
JL.fi. Jr I would appeal to yourselves, and
all here present, what the natural import of
such a letter is, whether, it does not carry a
matter more than ordinary, whether its natural
intendment doth not look nt that? And the
next thing is this : does any man write plainer
than this, when they write of a thing that is of
such a nature) Is not the danger too great to
hazard that met, which they call the nature ef
the thing, to intrust, it in a letter? Is it not
vain to put that in a letter, in words at length, x
which they to whom it is writ, know what the
thing mesas ? And if it should be farther
known than they would have it, the thing could
never be done : and if you consider the person
that writes, a Jesuit, or a priest s are priests
ever plain ? And will you expect plainness here,
when, ia things of ten thousand times lees
moment, they do aot write plainer ? Is it not
known, you have not a proselyte, that you do
not keep under obligations as close as your
confessions are ? Have you not taken here,
as it is sworn, a Sacrament of Secrecy ? Is
there a woman that you convert, but in the
dark? Or a Papist made out of a priest's hole?
Are not all your deeds under-ground ? And
do you work with any light, but that of a darit-
lanthorn ? This is plain, unless you give a
better answer to this letter, the letter will hang
about your necks.
L. C. J. North. Mr. Oates will tell yen what
the design was.
Mr. Justice Mttii. He can tell you what it
was.
X. C. J. The letter speaks itself.
Oata. Mr. Gavan, and they, now, tell your
lordship what this consult was for, but they de-
nied this consult at first, when there was but
one man to justify it. I justified it before Mr.
Fenwick, who denied it at the council-board,,
though now thev pawn their salvation upon the
justification of it.
Fenmck. I never denied that there.
L. C. J. Come, have they any thing to say
for themselves ?
Bedfow. My lord, whereas, as- Mr. Gavan
says, that in obedience to the king and parlia-
ment they would have their consultations secret^
and that they always desired to conceal them-
selves then ; the time of sessions of parliament
was the only time that I and others have been
employed to fetch over more Jesuits man at any
other particular time.
Oata. And there are more of them then itr
the Court of Requests, and in the Lobbies,
bare-fiieed, and threatening the Protestants,
than at any other time.
Bedloi*. We used to fetch them against cba
parliament always ; they were in less datogea
then, than at othsr times.
2A,
855] . STATE TRIALS, SI Cmailis II. 167&— IVul qf Thomas Whk&rtad, [85G
- L. C. J. You could give a very good ioter-
? relation of the letter, I suppose, that Mr.
)ugdale speaks of, that came from White-
bread, that he should be sure to entertain such
as were hardy stoat fellows ; I suppose jou can
make all this to signify nothing more than a
design for a game at cudgels.
Sir Cr. Levins, If your lordship please, we
must desire one letter more may be read.
Your lordship hath been told of commissions
for raising an army, here is a touch of them
mentioned io Una letter, found amongst Mr.
Harcourt's letters too.
L. C. J. Look you, Mr. Harcourt, you had
best attend; here is another letter found
amongst your papers, concerning . some com-
missions. You look ill to your letters ; you are
#o blame, indeed, Mr. Harcourt.
Sir Cr. Lcvinx. Pray, sir Thomas Doleman,
Jtaok upon that paper, and tell us how you
came by it.
Sir T. Doleman. This letter in my hand I
round amongst Mr. Harcourt's papers, about
tome two days after I found that other that
was read before. Having heard Mr. Oates
give in his information to the council, that
there were several commissions given out to
several persons, and finding some doubtfol
clauses and expressions in the letter, I did pre*
sent this letter to the council, and made a mark
upon it, ' enquire what is meant by the word
* patents.9
mL.C. J. Pray let it be read, because we
shall desire a little more of their interpretation.
CI. of the Cr. It is signed Christopher An-
derton, Hilton, February the 5th, 1667-8.
Oates, Hilton, that is Rome.
L. C. J. Mr. Harcourt, you understand,
that by Hilton is meant Rome ? *
Harcourt. Yes, my lord, I do.
L. C. J. Well, then go on, and read it. .
CI. of Cr. * Worthy Sir, I know not from
* whence it proceeds, but I perceive that both
* your letters and mine have bad fortune by the
€ way, for my cotea^anajsnsBi-witli you com-
< plain, they fcear not from me; whereas I
' write constantly intire pacouets ; and since
' the bills I received from yourself, for sir Wil-
' liam Goring and for Mr. Ireland, from Mr.
* Shelly, I have not had one letter, bnt what I
' received this week, which, in part, made re-
* compence for the former, for it brought me
« three of yoars and one of Mr. Ireland's, for
* which I render you manv humble thanks, and
' acknowledge the 15/. from my lord Castle-
'tnain, though Mr. Ireland made no mention
* of it in bis. We are all here very glad of the
' promotion of Mi>. Thomas Harcourt. When
rI writ that the patents were sent, although I
' guess for whom they were, yet I knew not for
' certain, because our patrons do not use to dis-
/ cover tbjngs or resolutions till they know they
'hav*e#eet. And therefore in these kind of
* matters I dare not be too hasty, lest seme
4 might say, A fool's bolt is soon shot.1
L. C. X What is^ the meaning of these pa-
tents?
FenvicK. This gentleman will tell you, my
lord
Whitebread. My lord, they were the patent
for my being provincial.
L. C. J. How many patents had you t
Whitebread. But one, my lord.
L. C. J. Is that patents?
Whitebread. Liter* Patentee.
L. C. J. Is it patent or patents ?
CLffCr. Patents.
L. C. J. Read those words again.
CLofCr. « We are all here very glad at tbsr
promotion of Mr. Thomas Harcourt. When
I writ that the patents were sent, although I
guess for whom they were, yet I knew not for
certain, because our patrons do not use to
discover things or resolutions, till they know
they have effect/
L. C. J. Now you have not interpreted well
this, neither.
Sir Cr. Lcvinx. It is said, « I knew not for
< certain who (they) were for ;' but to make it
dear, I would desire Mr. Whitebread to answer
me one question, How long is it, Sir, since yum
were made provincial f
. Whitebread. The 14th of January was twelves
month.
Sir Cr. Lcvinx. And this was dated the 5th
of February, which was after your commission.
Whitebread. That may be, *nd they not
know till then.
L. C. J. And so you expound those latter
words of the letter, That the resolution of
making you provincial was not discovered lUl
die effect was known.
Whitebread. Because it is not known, who
ther the person that is nominated might not be
excepted against : and it is liter* Patentee.
L. C. J. But here is but one person to an-
swer the word Patents, and there should be
more than one man.
Whitebread. Every patent is called Literm
Patentet, though it be but for one person.
Recorder. They were in great doubt tbatyo*
would refuse the place, I warrant.
Oates. He is bound on pain of damnariom
not to disobey bis superiors ; if they choose him
to a place, he must take it upon him.
Whitebread. It is not the first, second, or
hundredth tine that one bath been appointed
by the superior to a place, and bath refused it ;
and if I had known the hundredth part of what
I do now, of the trouble of the. place, I would
never have accented it.
Recorder. Ay, if you had known the difficulty
of this design, you would never have engaged
in it, especially if you had known what is come)
to pass.
Whitebread. No, Sir, I never had a hand in
any such thing in all my life : this is coram Dee
that I now speak,, and as I am to appear before
the great tribunal at the day of judgment, I
know nothing of all this matter.
Oates. My lord, these patents, of which tfcse
letter makes mention, a great many of them
came down in the months, of April and May
before.
357) STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Cbailis H 1070 <md othcrt,Jbr Hitf Trtaxm. [856
L.C.J. Methinhsbe interprets them plainer
than jam do,
L. C. Bare*. Now what have you to lay
every one of yon for yourselves ? Make your
X. C. J. Mr. Whitebread, do you begin.
Galea, While the prisoner** evidence it,
ealliiig in, I desire that my witnesses may be
Justice Pcssfcr ton. Mr. Oates, be quiet, there
k no need of it yet, till they hare made their
X. C. /. Bnt send for them, that they may
be lend^y.
WhUebrtmd. Mr lord, that which I bare to
say for mjself is this : I thank God, my lord, I
am not amid of death ; but I should be very
loth to die unjustly, and I hope your lordship
will consider, thai every man's blood is dear to
and is concerned for his own life to pre-
tty he ought to be allowed liberty and tree-
to preserve himself as much as be can.
lot is a thine not to be thrown away, but cha-
ntry to be looked after, and that there is such a
thugs* taking away men's lives by perjury, as
wefl as by a knife or pistol, is without contra-
dictioo, Now whoever comes against a man
fir bis lite, I. suppose be is to be looked upon
not only by the prisoner, but also by. the Jury
sad the Court, that he ought to be probta testis,
aad a man fit to be admitted to be a witness.
Now I have something to ©fler, That Mr. Oates
ii not an j such person. Your lordship was
■leased to say, that he was. the person who
proved the design mentioned in the letter that
was read. Now I hope your lordship will give
sse leave (and I hope I may do it without of-
fence to this Court) to say that he is perjured
in what be says.
JL C. «/. Yen mean that his evidence is false,
yon may do it if you can.
WhiUbread. He says he came over hither,
aad wee here present the 24tb of April with me,
and I did appoint him to do such and such
dungs, and discovered the whole business to
ban. Now I desire your lordship would be
pleased to consider whether this were probable,
sad wliether I had not been a r ery much mis-
taken man ail this while, to trust a man with
such a business, and whether I ought not rather
to be sent to Bedlam than Newgate, for trust-
sag seen a man as he, whom by his own con-
fcanon I never saw till that time. It is not ra-
tional that a man would trust him ; and then,
my lord, that this business should be discover-
ed to him, a man that depended wholly upon
as to live, and had no livelihood but what he
had from us* who maintained him at St. Omen
lone, as well as the best man in the house.
L. C. J. Did you do it ?
Whitebread. Yes, vaj lord, I did.
JL C. /. You should consider how in that you
aaswtr yourself .
WMtebrmd. I, that is, when I came to the
•flics, and I and my predecessors. Wht-n I was
ssperior I foiud him not a man fit for that pur-
p* and design he pretended to. Heweavery
zealous to be entertained amongst us, and share*'
fore I desired him to absent himseif.
Xw C. J. Why was he not fit to be employed
among yon?
Whitebread. For several reasons of our own s
First of all, it was doubtful whether he was a
good Catholic : For be had oftentimes main*
rained several propositions that were not
soundly Catholic : And then secondly, he led
a very idle lift, and be was not found a man we
were obliged to accept of, and therefore we de-
sired him to retire. And to that purpose we
furnished him, gave hhn a good suit of clothes,
and a periwig, and *J. in his purse, and be pro*
vnised me |o nay me again when he had sold
his library, which he said be had a very good
one in London ; but he never did. Bnt that I
should be so strangely overseen and mad, as at
the first sight of such a man as this, to trust
him with such a great intrigue as this was, and
to write in such a plain strange manner, and
send by post to Mr. Dngjale, as your lordship
did and jusdy might wonder at, had been a
madness. It was much that any man would
write so plain of such a thing. . But then my
lord, the chief thing is this, That I hope your
lordship will give us leave to produce our wit-
nesses to prove, that he was not from St. Omers
from the 10th of December till the £3d of June
following, and never lay out of the house hut
one night from December till June.
X. C /. Name jour witnesses.
Whitebread, I desire first Mr. Hilsleysnay be
called.
Li C. J. Call him ; but I'll tell you what is
strange. You say it is wonderful that you shoold
trust a man you had so little opinion ef his abi-
lities or fidelity ; but I wonder that you should
maintain him after that.
Whitebrtad. No, my lord, we. did not.
X. C. J. You say you did.
Whitehead. No, my lord, he pretends he was
here in England sent over by us, but we will
prove he was not.
X. C. J. But you maintained him abroad t
Whitebrtad. That was before.
X. C. J. Is it so great a wonder that yon
should take into your confidence and consults)*
tion that man,rwhom for a considerable time
before you had maintained abroad ?
Whitebrtad. But, my lord, 1 suppose there ii
some difference between charitable acts to a man
in want and a scholar, and trusting him with
such an intrigue as this.
Fenwiek. Pray, mv lord, be pleased to take
notice, that this man s evidence all along is,
that be saw such and such letters from such
aud such persons. They nave no evidence but
just that tliey saw such and such letters, and
how is it possible that a man who wms turned
away from St. Omers for his misdemeanours,
that I should shew him all my letters ? Now,
my lord, I have had a thousand letters taken
from me, not any of these letters had any thing*
of treason in them, or soliciting of persons to
come into England ; let the letters be pro*
duced, and then your lerdsuip will see what is
3H>] STATE TRIALS, SI Chamjm II. \679.—DricU(tfThom4$ WhUebretd, [SCO
»
I»G< X Mf loid feka t**s othetwte, That
i the evidence should be so plain that nothing
1 could be answered te it; and therefore no evi-
dence should be sworn against the king.
Gavaa. My lord, those are the words of tiny
lord Coke. ,
X. C. J. You argue against the known prec
tice of aliases.
X. C. J. NorJA. There was never any mats,
in a capital caese, sworn against the king. The
common law is the custom of the kingdom, and
we are bound to know it, and must be all go-
verned by it.
Whitehead. In Mr. Ireland's Trial, p. SS,
36, he says, be came over wkh sir John
Warner, Father Williams and Mr. Hilaiey,
from St. Omers.
Justice Fcmberton. Nay, you must not resort;
to the printed trials for evidence.
Fenmiek. If we can prove him perjured ae>
anv time, I hope we may.
X. C. J, Suppose upon the taking of these)
printed trials they mistake, shall Mr. Oates
therefore be thought guilty of perjury ? If yow
have any thing to ask of your witnesses whiota
yon can apply to the evidence given now, yoo
in them. AM the evifeaee that is given,
but to this ; there, is but saying and swearing.
I defy them all to give one probable reason to
" satisfy any reasonable uninterested man's judg*
ment how this coold be.
X. C. Baron. There can be no reason given
why you should sign an instrument to kiM the
. X. C. J.. Yon say there is nothing bat say-
ing and swearing, but you do net.consider what
you say in that matter. All the evidence and
all the testimony in all trials is by swearing.
A man comes and swears that be saw such a
bond sealed* or heard such words spoken, this
is saying and swearing ; but it-is that proof that
we go by, and by which aM mens* livee ami for-
tunes are to be determined. But then say you,
it is wonderful that since they say they saw such
and such letter*, they should not produce them ;
why ? they did not belong to them : aye, but
then say you, it is strange they should not find
one letter in' all those numerous papers that
were taken that contains any traitorous mat-
ter ; but, I say, it is forty times more a wonder
that one should be taken, than for all the rest
te be undiscovered. I suppose Mr. Harconrt,
amongst those papers that be let be surprised,
did not think that letter that hath been read to
have been of such consequence, nor the sense
of it to be so had.
Fenwick, I dreamt no more of my appre-
hension, when I was taken, than the day of my
death, k was se unexpected ; nor what I should
he accused of: I bad no fear of it, no thought
of it, so that I took nothing oot of the way.
They took 6 or 6,000/. bobds and bills, be-
sides letters; metbioks something of the* ef-
fects of • those letters might be produced, and
some of the design appear. For God's sake,
where are she commissions sighed, and monies
paid?
X. C. J. They talk of a patent. Mr. White-
bread construes it, that it is his commission ; if
.so, does it lie \n Oates or Bedtow's power to.
shew that commission ? (this is just like that of
the bill of exchange) neither does it in any of the
lettert.
fenwiek. -Here is Mr. Hilsley, my lord.
' Whitebread. My lord, we pray we may have
the favour that tbey may be sworn.
X. C. J. North. By law they cannot.
X. C. J. In no capital case against the king
tan* the witnesses for the prisoner be sworn;
but I will say this to the Jury, that they are not
sworn is because they- cannot, but the Jury is
to take great heed of what they say, and to be
governed by it according to the credibility of
the person and of the matter.
Guvan. My lord, if vou please to give me
leave, my lord Goke in bis Institutes says ex-
pressly, That there is no positive law against it j
bis words are, there U not so much as icirdUla
jurii against it*
X. C. /. North. We know that the constant
tuage and practice is so, and vou cannot pro*
duce any man, that in any capital case had his
^ ~ awwn Mains* the k*ng,
1
iy-
Fenmiek. Mr. Oates, did not yon yourself
own that you came over with Mr. Hilsley i
Oaten. Ask me any question about what I
have given to-day, and if the bench think i*
reasonable, I will answer it.
Fenwiek My lord, he did then affirm, tbathe*
came over with these persons, in which he is
forsworn.
- X. C J. He is not convicted of perjury, and
therefore that most not be urged.
Fenwiek. My lord, we will prove by wit-
nesses that were at the trial, that he did affirm*
so : and I do desire now to know of you, Mr.
Oates whether ever you came over wkh Mr*
Hilsley r
Qatq. That which I said then, and tbsu
which I say now, us (because yon should not
puzile yourselves), that one Mr. Hilsley die)
come over with us when we did.
Hililey. My lord, I did not
X. G J. How cau you tell ?
Hililey. I left him at St. Omers.
X. C. J. What say you, Mr. Oates ?
Gates. It is true, Mr. Hilsjey did leave me mt
St. Omers because he went out a Sender*
morning, and I came out of the Monday men**
ing, but I overtook him at Calais.
Hililey. My lord, that is false, and I have a
great many here that can prove it.
X. C. J. What religion are you of?
Hililey. I am only to serve hie majesty.
X.-C. /. Ate you not to serve God too ?
HiUUy. I am first to serve God, and then
his cdajesty.
Mr. Justice Pemberto*. Are f on a Catho-
lic ?
L. C. J. Are yeu^a Roman Catbohe t
HiUUy. Yes, my lord, I am«
Mr. Justice PembeHo*. Be notetbavJed of
your religion, do net deny that; yoorpievJpH
aU] STATE T1IALS, 51 Csablbs II. l&t.-*md oihtf$,fer High Tread*. [8M
hirwespresent, by ayery good dreiuastsjefe,
be was at an actioo of ours, a latin pay.
Oaiee* My lord, as to this going into the m-
firmaryat that, I deny it. My lord (if jour
lordships pleat*), I will shew that this gentle*
man is not only a votary of the Jesuits, hut
hath been one of the sodality several years.
And they have dispensations, and are bound by
an implicit obedience to say what the Jesaits
bid them, who are their superiors.
L. C.J. What say yon to the 80th of Jane,
toe time he says yen were there at the seeing
cat there can gpe yon a dispshsntion for what
yon say.
SMry. I hope a Roman cachetic may be a
lawful witness?
X. C. J. Yes, I deny it not: This is that
job say, yon left him at St. Omers, you not
call more witnesses to bach him t roaster Oates
ays it b true, you left him at St. Omers but be
overtook yon ax Calais.
(too. This gentleman lost his money St
Cslsia, a«i Father Williams did rekevehunby
ay means.
LC.J. What say you to that ?
flaafiy* Why my lord, yes it is tree, I did
lose ray money there, but it is nothing to the
parpens, for I will affirm I was never in the
nip with him in my lite.
Oster. I desire he may be asked, whether he
he ia the degree of a priest, er not ?
JL C. J. That would be a hard question to
pat to him to make him accuse himself. It
weavi bring him into danger of treason.
. Ml Justice Pembertm. He is a boy very fit
to sake a Jesuit of.
L. C.J. How could he then come te knew
Alain/. I confess it is true, that Mr. Oates
del never come over with me. And I have
Trific ■ i ii to prove, that they saw him there
sett day at 9c Omers, and two or three several
Sir O. Levi**. Mr. Oates bath another cir-
nausutc to prove it by.
Oates. lie went from at by the way, and did
me up with us to London.
Stithy. I knew how he understood this :
was a gentleman that the witnesses will
Ere he was very familiar with, the second of
T, that told him.
i.C J. Is that gentleman here f
HUUey. Here is one here to prove it.
L. C. J. And did he tell them how you' lost
your money?
SUeUy. Yes, my lord, I suppose so.
L. C.J. I speak seriously I do not under-
stand how he could come by these things.
Parry- My lord, I can 'testify, if it were
kwml tor os to swear; and prove that he was
at St. Omers that day, when ne says he tame
over.
JL C. J. What ii your name ?
Parry. My name is William Parry.
L. V. J. What countryman are you ?
forty. I am a Flintshire man.
L> C. J. When was heat St* Omers ?
Parry. He was there that 25th day, that day
he says he came over.
L. C. J. Was he there all that day I
Pmrry. He did not stir thence aH the day.
L. C. J. How can you tell that ?
Pmrry. I dined with him ; that day he went
into the infirmary he did not go **t of the
college, he was sick.
ttnetitk. Mr. Parry how long tfid Mr.
Oates stay there at St. Omers ?
Parry. He staid till after the 90th of Jane,
Iain sore ; fpr on the £0th -of Jane, I know
of the play ?
Gates. Mylord,astothatSOthofJuneIwas
there, and there was an action at that time, for
£ was then returned thither from London.
Parry. I deny all that, for he never stirred
oat of the college*
L. C. J. Young man, ia what qaalky wsvw
you there I
Parry. I was a student there, a poet.
L. C. J. How can yon my he did not stir
thence nil the while ?
Pmrry. I know by a narucular thing; I
dined and supped with bun there ; but when
lie was in the infirmary ; but the partkolar
passage was this, he did there fall out with %
gentleman that was in the infirmary too*
£> C. J. When was that ?
Parry. It was at the time that be says he
eame away.
L.C.J. When went be in i
Parry. The f 5th of April, Old Stile, efts!
staid a matter of three or fbor days*
Oates. Will you he pleased to take notice of
this? He says that Hilsley left me at fit. Omen
when he came away, and that the nest day he
dined with me and that I went into the iirfir- '
mary, which, he says, was the t5th of April,
Old Stile. Now we will run to argue ad horn*
nem; if this were thcS5tb of April, Old Stile,
how did Mr. Williams meet with Mr. Husky
at Calais; and restore him bis money, when
the Sttb, Old Stile, Mr. Williams was at the
consult in London ?
L.C.J. When was it that yon say Mr. Hil-
sley was at St. Omers f
Penmkh. Answer my Lord's question.
Parry. He went away the 24th of April, as f
remember.
X. C. J. What, Old Stile ?
Parry. Yes, Old Stile, according to the
reckoning there. •
Oateu But, my lord, opon the oath that 1
have taken, if he mean New Stile, all that this
gentleman hath said about this is Abe, ex-
cept that I was there the 20th of June.
JL C.J. Was it New Sale er Old itile that
yon say Mr. Hilslet went away f
Recorder. He does not know New Stole
from Old Stile.
Parry. He went the *4tb, that b the did
Stile beyond sea.
Whitebread. I do desire he may answer,
whether he does know that Mr. Oates was ever
out of the house from the time he) came Up
December till Jane, but erne nifbt.
9BS] STATE TRIALS, SI Chailbs II. 1619.— -Trial qf Thomat Whuebread, [964
Firry, No, he never was oat bat one night
atWatton.
X. C. J. From what time to what time ?
Furry. It was but two days and one night.
X. 6. J. What time was it that he was
there first?
Parry. He came thither in Deceiriber.
X. C. J. And did he stay there all the while ?
Parry. He did not stir from 'the college till
the end of June ; and never went out but a
day or two, as I know of.
JL.C.J. Not as you know of; but might
not he go, and you not know of it ?
. ,JParry. I am sure of it.
X. C. J. How can you tell ?
Parry. Not a Scholar eoes from thence to
Soriano, but the whole college rings of it.
Gavan. And then, my Lord, when they go
out, they go in secular clothes, that none must
know when any person leaves the college.
Oates. My Lord, in such cases, though it is
true in a general sense, yet it is but a general
rale, and every general rule admits of its ex-
ceptions, and my case was a particular excep-
tion. I put on the habit of the house as sooo
as I did return from London, and did not ap-
pear as if I bad gone out of the house, nor did
I know that it was known that I had been out ;
for I did never appear in the college in a secular
habit "^ ^
WhUtbrtad. What his clothes were, does
not change the place he sat in ; he being anci-
enter than the boys, had a privilege to sit in a
particular place, which must be known to all
the house at dinner and supper. He was visible
every day there.
L.C.J. I do believe it ; and therefore he
says, not only that he was reported to be there,
but that he saw him there almost every day*
Then another Witness for the Prisoner stood up.
X. C. J. What say you, young lad?
Doddington. I say, my Lord-
L.C.J. What is your name ?
Doddington. Doddington.
Oates. Pray, my Lord, ask him if he went by
that name at St. Omers ?
Justice Pembcrton. What was your name at
St. Omers?
Doddington. My name was Hollis there.
JLC.J. How old are yon ?
Doddington. Eighteen years and an half.
JLC.J. What can yon say ? Where was
Mr. Oates?
Doddington. He never west out of the col-
lege, bat one night to Watton, till the end of
June.
X. C. J. When came he into *he College ?
Doddington. A fortnight before Christmas.
I did not mind the day ; he says himself it was
the 10th of December.
X. C. J. Was be there till June?
Doddington. Yes, he never went out till June
bet one night.
X. C. J. Where was that? AtWatton?
Doddington. Yes, my Lord.
X. C.J; How do yon know that?
_ on. I only know that by what all
the bouse said.
X. C. J. Did you see him every day, except
that day? * ' . r
Doddington. I cannot say I saw him every
day, because he was in the infirmary once, and
he was there that very day after Mr. Hilaley
went away.
X. C. J. What day was it that Mr. Hilsley
went away?
Doddington. The 84th of April New Stile;
and that day be fell sick, and went into the
infirmary the next.
X. C. J. What day of the week was that ?
Doddington. It was of a Sunday.
X. C. J. And when did you see Mr. Oates ?
Doddington. On Monday or Tuesday, I am <
not certain.
X. C. J. How often did you see him from
the 24tb of April to June ? Did you see him
every other day ?
Doddington. Yes, that I am sure of for every
other day, I am not certain every day.
X. C.J. Are you positive t
Jury. We desire to know what time of the
year be was in the infirmary.
Doddington. I discoursed with him in the)
infirmary two or three days after Mr. Hilsley
went away.
X. C. J. But what time of the year was it ?
Doddington. He was there first in winter,,
and then afterwards he was in at this time^
whichr was in April.
X. C. J. Have you any more to say ?
Doddington. I can say more, that I saw Mr.
Oates the second of May, with one Blood or
Burnaby, and I am sure I saw him in his com-
pany.
Xr C. J. Where did you see him ?
Doddington. I saw him walking in the garden
with Mr. Burnaby.
Justice Pembcrton. When did you come into
England?
Doddington. I came over the 84th of April.
X. C. J. How long hate you been in Eng-
land?
Doddington. About two months.
Justice Pemborton. Why did you come over I
Were you sent for upon this occasion ?
Doddington. No, I was not.
Justice Pembcrton. Why did you come over?
Doddington. I came over partly upon the
ting's proclamation.
X. C. J. What proclamation was that?
X. C. J. North. That those that were ia
the seminaries should come over again.
Doddington. And partly because I had not
my heahh.
Fenwick. Mr. Gifrbrd, what dok you know
about Mr. Oates's coming from St. Omers ?
X C.J. When came you from St. Omers F
Oxford. I came over about a month ago.
X. C. J. Upon what occasion ?
Gifford. TojustUy that Mr. Oates was them
all the while that he says he was here.
v L.C.J. You speak like an honest man,them
is no hurt in that.
365] STATE TRIALS, 31 CsUtusi IL 1679.— and offers, for High Treason. [MG
Feawkk. We did tend for him over.
X. C. J. When did you see Mr. Oates there?
Gifird. I taw him the 1st of May was
twelvemonth with us, and the 81st of April.
X. C. J. And how long after that? *
GiffbnL I was in bis company for a whole
week after I am sure.
L. C. J. You say the 1st of May he was there,
how can too tell ?
Gtfartf . The 1st of May there came one
Mr. Burnaby to the college, and he fell into
acquaintance with him, and I saw him with
him: He was with as an whole week at least
every da j after dinner » We have an hour al-
ways after dinner to recreate in, and this een-
nanan was there with as, and Mr. Burnaby;
for Mr. Oates seeing as in the garden at first,
pot himself into our company, and kept with us.
LCJ. Was he not in the infirmary ?
Gtfard. Not at that time, my lord.
L, C.J. When was he in the infirmary?
GigbnL The day after Hilsley went away.
L. C /. Do you remember that ?
Gfmd. Yes, I do.
L.CJ North. How long did he stay in the
■Enusjy f
Perry. About three days.
X.C. J. And for how long together did you
see him after Mr. Hilsley's departure ?
Gifird. I can swear that I saw him at least
oil June, if I can believe my own eyes.
X. C. J, Your religion does not allow you to
sefieve your own eyes.
Gifiard. I "can in my conscience say, I be-
lieve J did tee himjevery day, or every other day.
JLC. J. Which do you say, did you see him
every other day or every day r
Gigord. Iff say, I saw him every other day,
that is sufficient.
L. C. J. Do you know that he went out of
the college at any time.
Giffard. Yes, he went for one night.
JL C. X Whither ?
Gifcrd. To a place called Watton.
L.C. J. What did he go thither for ?
Gjflbrd. For his relaxation.
JL C. J. How came you to take sach particu-
lar notice of him, that he was there ?
Gifibrd. It is impossible but we should see
lam, and take notice of him, for we dine ail
together in one room, and we could not but
take notice of him, for he was at a distinct ta-
ble by himoelf.
' X. C.J. How many are there that dine in
eaoroom ?
Giffbr<L One hundred and fifty.
X. C. J. How could you know him, when
there were so many.
Gifford. He was at a distinct table by him-
self, between the boys and the religious.
Then stood op another, one Palmer.
X. C. J. Well* what do you ask him ?
Femmiek. the same question as the rest.
X. C. J. When came you from St. Omers ?
Palmer. I came two or three months ago.
JL C. /. Why did you come over ?
' Palmer. I had no mind to stay any longer.
X. C. J. Where does your father live ?
Palmer. By Windsor.
JL C. J. When did you see master Oates?
Palmer, I saw him the first day of May,
New Stile, and I know it for a particular rea-
son ; there were strangers dined at the college
that day whereupon master Oates, and several
other boys played at nine pins, in the after-
noon, I saw them.
X. C. J. Why, you do not count all boys
there, do you ? "
Palmer, All but those that are the religious.
JL C. J. Why you did not count master Dates a
boy, did you?
Palmer. He was none of the religious : He
sat indeed at a table by himself, but he went
to school with the boys, and we called all the
scholars boys.
X. C. J. How often did you see him ?
- Palmer. I will tell your lordship, I saw him
the first of May, for that reason ; the second of
May I saw bint with master Burnaby, e> man
that he had never seen in all his life before, and
we wondered that he had so much impudence
as to insinuate himself into his company.
X. C. J. What is he ?
Palmer. He is a gentleman that is now in
Flanders. • ■ "
X. C. J. How do you know that Mr. Oases
had no acquaintance with him before/
Palmer. Because I know he was in England,
and came over while master Oates was actually
at St. Omers.
X. C. J. But be might be of his acquaintance
in England.-
Palmer. I heard master Burnaby say, he
never saw master Oates in all bis life before.
The second of May I saw him at the action,
the fifth of May master Kilhnbeck went away,
and I saw roaster Oates actually there then,
and one master Poole went away ; and I re-
member Oates was there for a particular rea-
son; be was a kind of a weak man, something-
soft, not over-wise, and we were asking him,
why he would go away by himself; and 'talk-
ing of it afterwards, says master Oates, (I will
not say positively those were the words, but that
was the sense.) ' He does not go alone, for
there goes esq. Pool and esq. Fool together/
The 11th day we bad an action, a play also,
whereupon there was a particular place for the
musicians to play in, where no one else was to
sit; master Oates would sit there, and there-
upon there was one master Watson quarrelled
witb him, and they had like to have (ought
X. C. J. This was the 11th of May ?
Palmer. Yes, my lord, New Stile, and the
other was the 5th. ' •
X. C.J. But you saw him betwutNthat time?
. Palmer. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. And so for how lone?
Palmer. I saw him at four o clock in a morn-
ing, reading father Worsley's controversies, and
so for several days together.
Fenwick. Did be go away before June.
Palmer. No be did never stir till June,
807] STATE TRIAUS, St Ciuaut VL \m.~Tri*l<f Thtmu WUtebrsad, [969
Sir Cr. Levin*. Did not von go sometime by
the name of Santo* or Bill ?
Palmer. No, only by the name of Thomas
talmcr.
8ir Cr. Levins. Hark you, lir, who main-
tained you at St. Omera ; Do not you know one
Mr. Caryl?
Palmer* No my father maintained me*
X. C. X Who U your father ?
Palmer. Sir Philip Palmer.
X. C. J. What country gentleman is he ?
Palmer. Buckinghamshire.
Mr. Justice Pemberton. He> is cup-bearer
to the king.
Then stood np one master Car.
L. C. X 0o«f long ha?t yon been from St.
Omers?
Cox. Two months.
X. C. J. What countryman are yoo?
Cos. I was bora at Brussels, to serve you.
L.C.J. Do yea know master Oates?
Cog. Yes, I did, very weU.
I. C.J. Where?
Car. At Saint Omera,
X;C.X When?
Cot. I left Saint .Omers seven months ago,
and I came away in the month of November,
after master Oates. My lord, I can prove that
be was there in April and May: I went from
Saint Omera to Brussels, and nam Brussels I
came straight te London.
JLC.J. Bat when did yen see master Oates
there?
Com. lean prove I saw him at Saint Omers,
when he says be was in England, and that by
Chis ciroumetance; master Peal, who was my
masic-ssaster, was sick there, and master Oates
was often with him.
X. C /. Ware you there all the time he
ares there?
Cos . Yes, I was, till he went away.
X. C. X When did he go away ?
Com. Master Oates went away in the month
afJnJy.
X. C. X Are yoa sore of that?
Cue. Yes, my lord, I am.
X.C.X Not ia June?
Cat. No, my lord, July.
X. C.J. Why, he differs from all the rest
Cos. Myiord, I can prove he was at Saint
Omars when he says be was in England.
X. C* J. Why, what month did he go away?
Cor. My lord, I can prove that Mr. Oates
was never absent from Saint Omar, till be went
away far good and all.
L.C.J. Wbenweethat?
Ce*. He went after the Consult of the Je-
suits, which he says was in England in April*
X. C. J. Coma, came, answer me plainly, if
oo can, in what month Mr. Oates left Saint
men?
Cos. I say, Mr. Oates was never absent from
Saint Osnera, till the Consult of the Jesuits was
orer, which he hath confessed himself to be at.
X.C.X When was that?
Qm* Why, it was after May, 'tis no matter
O
what dm math was, whether June or July,
(At which the people laughed.)
Cor. What do yon leuch at, Sua? why,
suppose I mistake the month, it is no matter.
t. C. J. Look you, we are now upon a ques-
tion of time, and you cannot tell that a mao is
there at a certain time, unless you can prove
the certaia time when he came away.
Cos. I can prove that he was there tiM altar
the Consult of the Jesuits. (And then the peo-
ple laughed again).
L. C. J. Aye, I believe yon there, it is
enough for you, bat you have done a very great
prejudice to those persons that you came for,
for you come to prove the conclusion, hot do
not take notice of what mediums yon are to
use. Say yon, if I can but prove that he was
there till after the Consult of the Jesuits, that
is the thing in question, and I need no more ;
but this is serving a turn only : pray can you
tell me what month he came to St. timers?
Cor. Yes, he came thither in the month of
December.
X. C. J. And when did he go away again ?
Cos. He was never absent tram St. Oners,
out of the view of the scholars except one night
that he went to Watton, and one day when he
was in the infirmary, but even at that time he-
was seen by some of the scholars.
JL C. J. Yet yon cannot tell the time that
he went away ?
Cos. He was never absent all the while.
Justice Windham. Do yon knew when the
Consnk of the Jesuits was ? npon what day ?
Car. He says he went away with Mr.
Hilskty; but be did not, I can prove the con-
X. C. X No, no, ha says he followed liim,
and overtook him at Calais.
m Car. That is fake, and I can prove it by this
circumstance : One Mr. Conquest was to go
for England that day, and he came into the re*
factory, and told us a story of this Mr. Con-
quest's being unwilling to rise in the morning
to go for England.
1. C. J. When did he tell that story?
Cos. That day that he was to go for En**
land.
X. C. J. How long was that after Mr. Hibley
went away 1—Cos. The day after.
Genoa. When was the time that Mr. Coav
quest went for England ?
Cor. In the month of May, as we count.
X. C. J. What time in the month of May ?
Cos. It was the 5th : And he says thatBfr.
Pool and Mr. Nevilwere in England with him ;
but I can testify that they were not absent, for
one of them was my mustoenester.
L.C.J. Was he there all Mny?
Cor. Yes, that I can testify upon my oath.
L.CJ. And all June?
Cor. Yes, my lord; but if I prove he was
not in May in Kftsjand it is sufficient
X. C. J. Upon my word, you deserve a sharp
penance, for running into that fault two or three
times: You have done them no kindness in.
this
369] STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles II. 1679— and others, for High Treason. [870
Goran. If your lordship will take advantage
of every circumstance, young mert may not re-
member the particular day of his going away.
L. C. J. But you hear how he delivers his
evidence, it is as if he had been instructed, You
must come and prove that Oates was not in
England io April aad May, and that will do our
business; for he tells you, it is sufficient; but
we will have it proved to satisfy us.
Cox. But why should I say more than I
know ?
L. C. J. You mean more than you are in-
structed about. I only ask you one short ques-
tion. Do you know when Mr. Oates left St.
Oners ? Name the month.
Gavan. If you do not remember the time,
say so.
Cox. My lord, I cannot remember it.
L. C. J. Then call another. Who stood up.
0<i/es. My lord, I desire they may be exa-
mined apart.
.. JL C. J. You need not trouble yourself about
that What is your name?
BtUi*g. My name is Thomas Billing.
X. C. /. When came you from St. Omers?
BtUing. I came three" months ago, I think,
nwiord.
• ■
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Oates ?
BUhng. Ye*, my lord, very well.
L. C. J. When did you see him at St. Omers I
Billing. My lord, I saw him when he came,
the same day, or the day after.
L. C. J. When was that ?
Billing. In December, my lord, the 10th of
December.
£. C. J. And be staid there how long?
Billing. Till the latter end of June.
JL. C. J. Was he never absent ?
Billing. I can very well remember that he
went to Watton in the Christmas. I was then
io the Infirmary myself, and he and his com-
panion came in there to see us, and said he had
been at Watton.
L. C. J. But he waa twice in the Infirmary,
was he not ?
Billing. Yes, my lord.
JL C. J. When was the second time?
Billing. The second time was in April, I
went in the week before Christmas: On St.
Thomas of Canterbury's day I came out again.
L. C. J. But you say the second time was
ia April?
oumf • i. ess*
JL C. J. How long was" he there then ?
Billing. Truly I was not with him then, but
I mink three or four days.
L. C. J. Were you in the College then?
Billing. Yes, my lord, I was.
L. C. J. Did you see him in the College
from time to time ?
Billing. Yes, I did.
JL. C. J. How long ?
Billing. For all the time that he staid.
L. C. J. How long was that?
BMing, That waa from December, till the
latter end of June.
L. C. J. Was he there all May }
rot. vii.
Billing. Yes, my lord. He says be was 8
days in England, but he could not be so, for he
entered himself into the Sodality the 25th of
March, and not long after his admission, he was ~
put to read every Sunday morning at 6 o'clock.
And after that he began once to rend, he never
was absent from that time till the time he went
away.
L. C. J. Why, did he read when he was sick?
Billing. He was not sick upon the Sunday.
L. C. J. You say he was sick in April ?
Billing. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. But he was not 6>ck of a Sunday,
in April?
Billing. He was only a little indisposed, and
frequented the Infirmary in the day-time for a
matter of three or four days.
L. C. J. Did he read at the time he was sick
in the Infirmary ?
Billing. He was not sick a whole week4
L. C. J. Did it reach to a Sunday ?
Billing. No, my lord, that I remember*
L. C. J. How long did he continue there?
Billing. Till towards the latter end of June*
L. C. J. Did you see him once in two or
three days?
Billing. Yes, my lord, I did, c'onstantlvs
And upon the 2nd of May, I very particularly
remember, looking out into the garden, I saw
Mr. Blunt walking in the garden, and Mr.
Oates with him : and observing him to be very
intimately familiar with him, I asked some that
were with me, Does this Sampson, for he went
by that riame in the College, says I, does Samp*
son know Dick Blunt? No, said they; and he
wondered at bis confidence, having no greater
acquaintance ; I saw him that day, walking in
the garden with that Blunt*
i. C. J. That was the 2nd of May ?
Billing. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. And he was constantly id this gen-
tleman's company that day ?
Billing. Yes ; and moreover the same day
this Sampson was walking with one John Rush-
ton in the garden, and seeing me walk alone,
Thomas, says he, have you never a companion f
No, Sampson, said I: Well, said he, pr'vthee
come to us. So I was with him walking a little
while, and then this Blunt and one Henry
Howard were playing one with another, throw-
ing stones at one another's shins. At which
he was displeased, and said, if they would not
be quiet, he would go and tell the rector.
Howard was hasty, and spoke angrily to him,
and said, if he would not be quiet, hewculd
beat him : But Mr. Oates persisting, and dar-
ing of him, saya he, What do you dare me t
and comes up to him, and throws op Mr. Oates* *
his heels. With that Mr. Oates looked very
fretfully upon him, and withdrew himself into
the Infirmary, as we tlwught, to speak to the"
rector. And by these particulars, and such
as these, I remember to have seen him etetf
day, one day with another, or every other day,
at St. Omers, till he went away, which was i*
June.
Then stood op another, on* Tmnlqfi
2B
»1] STATE TRIALS, il CHaklm II. 1679— Trial qf T!u>ma$ Whitehead, [373
X. C. X Come, Mr. Townley, do you know
Mr. Oates ?
Townley. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. When came you from St. Omen?
Townley. I came a week before Easter.
X. C. X When saw you this same Mr. Oates
at St. Omers ?
Townley. I saw him in June.
JL C.J. When else? — Townley. In May.
X. C. X When else ?
Townley, In April.
X. C. X Was he there in all April, all May,
and nil June ?
Townley. No, not all June. He went away,
as I take it, about the 10th of June.
X. C. X Pray, hew often did you see him ?
Did you see him every day ?
Townley. I conversed with him every day.
He was partly a scholar, and partly a father ;
and sat at a table by himself. He went to
school as a scholar ; it is true, indeed, he did
not learn, as the rest of the boys did, but be
went to school, as' the boys did, and was at a
table from the fathers, as the boys were, but
apart and alone.
X. C. X But how often did you see him ?
was it every other day ?
Townley. Yes, I believe I did.
X. C. X What, for all April, and all May?
Townley. .Yes.
X. C. X How came you to take such particu-
lar notice of it, that you can say, you saw him
i every other day ?
Townley. If I constantly dine with one, or if
lie be at a single table alone, be cannot be
absent, but I must take notice of it : And he
was neither as a father nor a scholar, but be-
twixt both, and therefore the more to be taken
notice of.
X. C. X This then you say, he sitting by him-
self, and being distinct from all others, you
might more easily observe his absence, than any
Others. This is that you say ?
Townley. Yes, my lord.
X. C X Yen say well. Call another.
Then stood up one Fall
X. C. X When came .you from St. Omers ?
Foil. About two months ago. v
X. C. J. When did you see Mr. Oates ?
Full. I saw him when I was in my syntax,
and now I am in poetry.
X. C. X What month did you see him in ?
Fall. When he came first, as I remember, it
was at Christmas.
X. C. X Christmas last ?
Fall. No, it was Christmas was twelve-
month, Christmas 1677.
X. C. J. How long did yon see him there?
Fall. I saw him there from that time till
June, only when he was at Watton.
X. C. X. Was be never sick ?
' Fall. I saw him in the infirmary myself.
X. C. X How can you tell when a man is
tick?
Fall. I do not pretend to that, but ha was in
the infirmary u a sick man.
X. C. X How came you to take particular
notice of it?
Fall. I took no particular notice, but I have
recollected my memory.
X. C. J. Upon what occasion ?
Fall. Upon this occasion.
X. C. X How often did you see him ?
Fall. I saw him every day.
X. C. J. How long have you been in the
convent?
Fall. My lord, I have been there two years)
and a half.
Then stood up John Hall.
X. C. X When came you from St. Omers f '
Hall. In July, my lord.
X. C. X How long have you been there ?
Hall. Seven years, and upwards.
X. C. X How long is it since you came from
thence?
Hall. In July, iu the year 1678.
X. C. X And did you see Mr. Oates there
then?
Hall. No, my lord.
X. C X When did you see him there, then?
HalL I saw him there in April, May, and
June.
X. C. X What, all June ?
Hall. No, my lord.
X. C. X How long in June ?
Hall. He went away about the 23rd of
June ?
X. C. J. How came you to take such par*
ticular notice Mr. Oates was there all this
while ?
Hall. I was a servant there.
X. C. X In what way ?
Hall. A refectorian, a butler.
X. C. J. Did you keep books of what meat
and drink they had ?
Hall. No; I laid their table, drew their
beer, and laid the bread.
X. C. X And did you serve Mr. Oates with
bread and beer every day ?
Hall. Yes, my lord, most days.
X. C. X Did you serve the infirmary ?
Hall. No, my lord.
X. C. X But you say you served him every
day?
Hall. Yes, my lord, the most of the time he
remained there; I acknowledge be was in the
infirmary. '
X. C. X How long ?
Hall. Four or five days, or thereabouts.
X. C. X Was he in the college in April f
HalL Yes, my lord, all along.
X. C. X And all May ?
Hall. Yes, my lord, I saw him all May, I
laid bis table near the 'door,, at a particular
place where he always sat.
.Jury. My lord, we desire to know what em*
ployment he is of now ?
Ju C. X. Hall, what made you come into
England ?
Hall. My lord, I had not my health there.
X. C. J. How long had yon lived there ?
Hall, Seven years, and upwards.
573] STATE TRIALS, 31 Craules II. 1670.— am* other*, Jor High Treason. [574
X. C. J. Aod when began you to be sick ?
Hall. I had irot my health at Christmas, in
December 1677.
X. C. J. What employment have you here,
lor you had a good place there?
Ball. I live at home, with my father and my
friends.
X. C. J. What is jour father, where lives
lie?
Hall. He is a gentleman ; he lives in Rad-
norshire.
JL C. J. When came you to London ?
Ifall. I came tu England in July 1678.
X. C. J. But you say that your father is
in Radnorshire, when came you here to Lon-
don?
HalL I bare been here about a month. I
was summoned up as a witness.
Then one JDallison was called, who did not ap-
pear; and one Maughel appearing, but
speaking French, and no English, and an
interpreter not being ready, he was for the
present, by the consent of the prisoners,
set aside. And then stood up one Cooke.
L C. J. When came you from St. Omars ?
Cooke. In January last.
jL C> /. And where have you been ever
Cooke. Here in town, my lord.
JL C. J. Does your father live here in town?
Cooke. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Does your friends live here ?
Cooke. No, my lord.
jL C.J. You came over upon this occasion,
jfidyou ?
Cooke. Yes, my lord.
X. C. /. When did you see Mr. Oates there ?
Cooke. I saw him iu last June.
X. C. J. And was he there in July ?
Cooke. No, my lord.
X C J. What time did he go away ?
Cooke. The 23d, the eve of the feast of St.
John Baptist.
X. C. J. How do you know ?
Cooke. I made him some clothes.
X. C. J. Are you a taylor ?
Cooke. Yes.
X. C. X How often did you see him ?
Cooke. Every day.
JL C. J. How came he to keep you com-
f«BV?
Cooke. I could not choose but see him,
sosaetimea I saw him twenty times a day.
X. C. J. Where was he in April ?
Cooke. He was there all April.
X. C. J. He might be absent one day, or so,
and yon see him not ?
Cooke, He used to come twice a week to my
sbon for things.
L.C.J. Was he there all May?
Cooke. Yea.
X. C. J. Yon say you saw him every other
dav ?— Cooke. Yes, my lord.
Bk Cr. Lemni. Why, Sir, there are 150
scholars there, bow can you tell he was there so
veil?
Justice Pemberton. Can you tell every one
that was there 'all thai time ?
Cooke. No, I cannot tell every one that was
there, but be was* particular enough.
X. C. J. Did you live in the town as a taylor,
or in the college?
Cooke. In the college.
Mr. Belwood. Was Mr. Oates at Wattbn any
part of the time ?
Cooke. Yes, he was.
Mr. Belwood. What day? what month?
Cooke. I cannot justly say the day, butlt
was in April.
L. C. J. Ho* long was he abseni ?
Cooke. Only one night, as it shall please
y&u.
Justice Pemberton. Hark you, how came yon
to take notice that he was at Watton one
night?
Cooke. It was talked of among all the scho-
lars.
X. C. J. How can you remember 'what was
said a year ago of one man ?
Cooke. It was reported all over the house.
Gavan. In one place of bis Narrative, he says
he came over with sir John Warner and sir
Thomas Preston.
X. C. J. North. That is nothing to the pur-
pose. If you can contradict him in any thing
that hath been sworn here, do.
Gavan. If we can prove him a perjured man
at any time, we do our business.
X. C. J. You should have proved' him a per-
jured man before: How can we prove one
cause in another ? and then too he bad been
provided to make his defence : Can become
prepared to make good every thing that be hath
said in his life ?
Oates. Can I come to make good my evi-
dence against all I have done in my life ?
X. C. J. Look you, if so be he hath forsworn
himself in any former trial, if that would ap-
pear, you have all the reason to make use of it;
but vou have not taken the right way, you
should have indicted him and tried him for
perjury in the former trial, and then he could
not have been heard at all in this.
Whitcbread* We were all prisoners close
shut up.
X. C. J. We know you have a party strong
enough, and willing enough to convict him of
perjury, if they could ; but look you, gentle*
men, here is the thine, if you can give such evi-
dence as will satisfy the jury that he was
absent all April and' all May, you have said a
great thing. His evidence will be quite con*
tradjeted. -
Whitebread. He says he came ever with sir
Thomas Preston and sir John Warner, and
others.
X. C. X He says nothing of it now.
Oatet. May it please you, my lord, I will an*
swer it, if you please.
X. C. J. They desire to know who came over
with you when yon came over in April.
Oatet. I will tell you, and to convince the
court, that in neither of the trials I did contca-
S75] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1679— Trial qf Thomat Whitehead, [37G
■ diet myself, I say, I did name some persons at
one time that I did not name at another, be-
cause some mens names did occur to my mind
at one time than did at another: There came
over with me the rector of Liege, sir John
Warner, Father Williams, Father March,
Father Warner, sir Thomas Preston, and
.others.
X. C. J. This is dealing plainly with you.
Then stood up one Bartlett.
X. C. J. What countryman are you ?
Bartlett. I am a Dutchman.
X. C. J. Can you speak English ?
Bartlett. Yes, a little.
L.C. J. When came you from St. Omers?
Bartlett. I came from St. Omers the 23d of
May, in the year 1678, New Stile.
Gavan. My ford, this man is come over to
testify, thatOatesis perjured in a circumstance
about sir John Warner.
X. C. 7. He is to contradict Mr. Oates's tes-
timony, for he says he , came over with John -
Warner, and you say sir John did not come at
that time. — Gavan. Yes.
X. C; J. Well, when did sir John Warner
-come over from St. Omers ?
Bartlett. Whither?
X. C. J. Into England.
Bartlett, Sir John Warner hath not been
in England all May, and all the month of
April.
X. C. X Where was he?
Bartlett. He was at Watton : I did see him
.there.
X. C. J. Were you there all that time ?
Bartlett. Yes, I was.
X. C. J. North, Were you there all May ?
Bartlett. Yes, I was.
X. C. J. When did you come over into Eng-
land last ?
Bartlett. The 93d of May.
X. C J. How long have you been in England ?
Bvftlett. About five or six weeks.
X. C. X What is your name ?
Bartlett. My name is Bartlett.
X. C. X But you say that you came over
the 2$d of May.
Bartlett. I did not come over till the latter
.end of June.
X. C. X Just now you said, you came over
the 33d of May.
Bartlett. No, my lord, I thought you asked
the question when Mr. Oates came over.
Justice Pemberton. He says so, as your lord-
ship says before.
L, C J. How do you know when Mr. Oates
came over.
Bartlett. I heard so beyond sea.
Then one Carlier> a foreigner, appearing, and
not being able to speak English, Mr. Tis-
ser the under sheriff of Middlesex was
sworn truly to interpret his testimony.
X. C. J. Mr. Tisser, you are only to tell us
what he says : Ask him when he came into
England iait.
Tisser. He say«?, my lord, it was between
seven and eight weeks ago.
X. C. J. Ask him if he knows where sir John
Warner was, last summer was a year ago.
Tisser. He says, my lord, he was in Watton
for two years last past.
X. C. J. Ask him where he was aU April
was twelvemonth, and all May.
Tisser. My lord, he says, that the last Sun-
day in April sir John Warner was at his nous*
at Watton.
X. C. X And where was he all May ?
Tisser. In the same house.
X. C. J. Ask him how be does know.
Tisser. My lord, he saith, that he was a
gardener there.
X. C. X It seems he says to the same effect
as the last witness did. Call another. Who
did stand up.
• X. C. J. What is this man's name ?
Gavan. HU name is Charles Verron.
X. C. X Does he speak any English ?
Gavan. No, he does not.
X. C. J. Then^ Mr. Tisser, ask him if he
knows sir John Warner, and where he was
April and May was twelvemonth.
Tisser. He says, my lord, that he was at
Watton all April and May, and continued there
till September.
X. C. J. Pray ask this man what quality he
is of there.
Tisser. He goes along with a vessel between
St. Omers and Watton, and that he knows it to
bo true.
X. C. X Ask him if be did see him every
day. , .
Tisser. He says, generally, my lord, daily.
X C. J. Ask him what religion he is of.
Tisser. He says he is of the Roman religion.
Then stood up one Bailie t.
X. C. J. Ask him, Mr. Tisser, if he knows
sir John Warner ; and where he was all April
ar.d May was twelvemonth.
Tisser. He says the same, that he was at
Watton all April and May.
X. C. X Ask him how he can tell.
Tisser. He says he is a servant of the house.
X. C. J. And did he see him there daily ?
Tisser. My lord, he says that he gave him
directions to make a bastyment, that he is a
mason, and that he did give him direction*
daily about it, and that be saw him every day.
X. C. X Look you, Gentlemen of the Jury,
he speaks to the same purpose that the three
witnesses before spoke to ; he says he is a ma-
son, and that he built a bastyment there by di-
rection from sir John Warner, and that sir John
Warner came daily to give directions about it.
Then stood up one John Joseph.
X. C. X Do you know sir Thomas Preston f
Joseph. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. When did you see him?
Joseph. In the months of April, May, and
June.
X* C X. Where was he then ?
87?] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chables II. 1679.— and others, for High Treason. [379
to the consult; and being asked how he knew
Joseph. He was at the English house at
Lie*
L. C. J. Did you see him there ? How often
did you see him there ?
Joseph. I saw him there every day almost.
L. C. J. What occasion had you to see him ?
What were you there?
Jauph. I was porter of the gate.
L C. J. And did you see him all the month
of April?
Every day, most commonly.
Did you see him once in a day or
Joseph.
JL C. J.
two?
Joseph.
June.
L C.J.
I did see him in April, May, and
That you might do ; but did you
see him every day ?
Joseph. Every day most commonly, I can-
not absolutely say, but two or three days in a
vetk.
Sir O. Lrcinz. Pray do you know of any
tit* that sir Thomas Preston was absent from
Liett:
Jj*7*& He was in the time of vacancy.
v Cr. 'Lroim. Was he not absent in April
Joxph. No. my lord.
L. C. /. When are the vacancies ?
Joseph. In A o gust, my lord.
Then stood up one Peter Car pent eer.
L. C. J. Do you know sir Tho. Preston ?
Carpenteer. Yes, my lord, very well.
JL C. J. Where did you know him?
Carpenteer. I knew him at'Liege.
L. C. J. How often did you see him there
in April and May ?
Carpenteer. fevery day I saw him there, ail
April and May.
JL. C. J. What office had you there?
Carpenteer. I was caterer.
Gavan. My lord, we have no more witnesses
as to this point. But, my lord, my case is dif-
ferent from the others ; Mr. Oates says he did
not see nae in the congregation, but he snys, he
afterwards saw my hand to the consult: Now,
my lord, I have a witness to prove th;tt \ was at
that time at Wolverhampton in Staffordshire.
Nobody hath a right to sit in the congregation
till he become a professed Jesuit, which r».t that
tone I was not. ^ **
L. C. J. He does not charge y%i to have
been there, though he says he saw your hand
to ir.
Gavan. My lord, I was then in the country.
JL C. J. North. That will do you some, and
yet bat little service, if you can prove yourself
at Wolverhampton at that time; but call your
JL C. J. Mr. Gavan, he says he saw a let-
ter of yours, gwiog an account how affairs stood
ia Staffordshire and Shropshire, and that after-
wards in July, and before that gentleman, Mr.
Aihby, went to the Bath, he heard you dis-
course of the same matter : And though he can-
not charge his memory to say he saw you the
34tb of April9 yet, says he, I did nee his hand
your hand, he bays he knew it by your writing
a bill of exchange in his presence.
Gavan. I could not sign the consult at Lon-
don, and not be at London.
L. C. J. North. I believe in such a business
you care not how many hands you have; but
we will not prevent you calling your witnesses:
You are upon your life, do not spend the time,
call them quickly.
L. C. J. What do you call them to prove?
Gavan. To prove that I was at Wolver-
hampton the 24th and 25th of April.
JL C. J. Pray hear what he says himself,
You say, sir, you saw his hand to the consult
that was in April ; pray, when was it that you
saw it ?
Oates. It was in June or July.*
L. C. J. N^rth. You might set your hand
afterwards to it, if you were not there then.
L. C. J. You say you were then in Staf-
fordshire, and might not you set your hand af-
terwards when you came to town ? 1 will tell
you, Mr. Gavan, m April thev met, and had
such a resolution ; you were theu in Stafford-
shire; might not you come to town in July fol-
lowing, and set your baud to what was agreed
in April before? And you cannot contradict
him, but by shewing that all June and July yon
were not here : For if you prove yourself never
so much to have been at Wolverhampton in
April, that will not serve the turn. You seem
to make a very greut defence of this : all that
Mr. Oates says is, that the 24th of April be was
present where there was a consult had about the
death of the king, and divers persons set their
hands to the resolve. Mr. Gavan afterwards
was in town, and then, says he, I saw his hand
set to the consult : I will not charge my n/e-
mory to say he was present, but I will tell yon
why I believe it was his hand, because I saw
him draw a bill of exchange, and that was just
like the same hand.
Gavan. Ay, but, my lord, I was not here in
April.
L. C. J. But this proves, in effect, that yon
set your hand to the thing afterwards. And
now if you shall prove yourself never so plainly
tint to have beeu there in April, you do not
come to the thing :. it is still a non liquet, whe-
ther you were here July, or no. And Mr. Oates
does not positively charge you as to April,
Well, call your witnesses, and prove what you
will.
Catharine Winford was called, and appeared.
Gavan. I desire you would be pleased to
ask her, where I was the 23rd of July ?
Winford. My lord, I am very sure he was a
sojourner at our house the most part of the
summer, in June' and July both : in July the
23rd he went away from my house, and took
another lodging more convenient for that which
he had to do.
L. C. J, Where ? in what town was this?
Winford, At Wolverhampton in Stafford*
shire.
379] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chaw.es II. 1679 — TrM qf fhomat Wlutebread, [380
white they do not follow your practices. [At
which die People gave a great shout.]
X. C. J. You must pardon the people's* shout-
ing ; for you have turned their hearts so, that
there is no living for a papist in England, 1 will
maintain it. [And then the Peopte shouted
again.] You shall have all the justice that can
.be, and all the favour the law will allow.
G civ an. If there be but a place for us in
heaven, I am contented ; My Lord, 1 desire
you will be pleased to ask this Mrs. Catharine
Win ford, whether she does not remember that
I came from my Lord A&tou's the Monday be-
fore.
X. C. J. Mrs. Win ford, what say you ? do
you remember any passages about the time be
left your house ?
Winford. My Lord, I did not know directly
and positively what I should come to answer,
and therefore I cannot recollect myself.
X. C. J. Do you know that he went to any
gentleman's bouse some time before he left your
bouse?
Winford. Yes, my lord, he went often abroad.
X. C. J. To whose ?
Winford. To my Lord Aston's. ,
X. C. J. How long before ?
Winford. I cannot tell.
L. C.J. .How long did he stay at my Lord's?
Did he ever stay five or six days ?
Winford. I cannot tell.
L. C. J. My meaning is this, in plain English,
to ask you plainly, and you ought m conscience
to speak the truth as much as if you were upon
your oath ; for you are in the presence of God
who will judge you as severely for a falsbood in
this case, as in the other : I would ask you
whether he could not possibly be absent, and
make a step to London, and you be never the
wiser ?
Winford. My Lord, I am as confident as 1
can be of any thing in the world, of the con-
trary.
X. C. J. Might not he be in London the end
of June or July, and you not know it, when he
pretended to go to my lord Aston's ?
Winford. I do not know, but I am very con-
fident he did not.
X.[C. J. But was be absent long enough to
have done it? Can you charge your memory
with that ?
WiiifoM* It was possible it might be so, but
I am confident it was not, because I used to
order my maid to get him his linen ready upon
any journey, and he had none now.
Out a. My Lord, be took a chamber to go
into the exercise ; now, my Lord, he taking a
chamber on purpose for thir very thing, he
might pretend that, and come to London the
while, and they not know it, because he was
shut up ; for none are to come at them.
Winford. My Lord, I know not any such
thing of him ; but this is a rule amongst them,
that when they are so shut up, if there be a
necessary occasion to come to them about aay
particular business, as sending them linen, or so,
they have admittance to them.
X. C. J. Was he never away from you all
that time?
Winford. No ; and then he went to another
lodging in the town.
X. C. J. Do you say that be sojourned with
you all June and July till the 23rd?
Winford. He sojourned with me longer; but
I only name those months, because they are
only in question.
* JL'C. J. Where did he go when he went
from you ?
Winford. He took another lodging in the
town.
X. C. J. And did you see him then ?
Winford. I saw him then every day, or every
other day.
X. C. J. Are you a Roman Catholic ?
Winford, Yes, my lord, I am so.
L. C. J. Call another. -
Gavan. Call Mary Poole. [Who stood up.]
X. C X Do you know Mr. Gavan ?
Toole. Yes, my lord. ,
X. C. J. How long have you known him ?
Poole. This six or seven years.
X. C. J. Pray do you know where he was
this time twelvemonth?
Poole. He was at Mrs. Winford's house at
Wolverhampton.
X. C. J. How do you know ?
Poole. I was a servant there in the house.
X. C. J. And where was he in April ?
Poole. He was at my mistress's house.
X. C. J. And where was he in May ? '
Poole. My Lord, I believe he was there ?
X. C. J. Arid why do you believe he was
there?
Poole. Because I don't remember his going
forth, till the latter end of July, and he was
there in June too.
X. C. J. You answer readily, as to June and
July, why did you stick at the month of May,
more than the other months ? for you know,
when I asked you where he was in April, then
you said he was at home ; why do you doubt
'whether he was there m May, or no? pray tell
us why it is not as certain to you that he was
not there in May, as that he was there in June.
Why do you doubt more of it ?
Poole. 1 do not doubt but that he was there.
X. C. J. But why did you not answer then as
readily to the one, as to the other ?
Poole My Lord, any one may mistake.
X. C. J. This you were not prepared for, and
it was a question you ' did not come ready to
answer: are you a Roman Catholic?
. Poole. Yes, my Lord. [Here the people
laughed.] ,
L. C. J. Look you, you must know there is
no other use to be made of it, but only to shew,
that protestants are so averse to popery in Eng-
land, that they will not endure a Roman Ca-
tholic in England : but they are good evidence
and competent witnesses, I must tell you that,
and no man must deny it; for though you deny
heaven to us, yet we will not deny heaven to
you, nor witnesses; though you say heretics
will be damned, yet we hope they will never,
i
»l] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1 67 V.—and others, for H igA Treason. [3S3
X C. J. Were you employed upon any such
extraordinary matter ?
Watford. My I />rd, I used to go and see
him, aod carry hiui kis linen. '
X. C. J.* A ad can you charge your memory
with that ?
n inford. Yes, my Lord, I can.
X. C J. When ? the latter end of July ?
Winford. Yes, my Lord, I often went to see
him then, when be was pone from my house.
X. C. J. Where was he for all the former
part of J ul y , till those eight days ?
Winford. He was at my own house.
X. C. J. When went he first into this recluse
way?
Winford. He went from my house the 23rd
of July?
X. C. J. Was he not close, when he was
with you ?
Winford. 'So, my Lord.
L. C. J. And the last eight days you had
access to him ?
Vi inford. Yes, I had.
L C. J. I ask yoo, are these people shut up
at a certain time, and there is no coming to
tfcera, upon any occasion ?
Wtufard. My Lord, most of those days I did
see him, indeed he was *hut up, but upon any
kind of business, as the carrying of linen, and
sometimes a pair of gloves, and other things of
kbown, or sometimes to speak with him about
business, we were admitted.
L.C. J. I see your confinements are not' so
great as you would make them to be, or he
would hare us think : I ask you once more,
whether you can siy, that during the months
of June and July it was not possible for him to
make a step to London, and you never the
Winford. I am very confident he did not,
he was not absent long enough to do it.
Sir Cr. Levins. You said just now, you could
not say positively, but be might be absent for
6we or six days.
Winford. I do not believe he did ; \for he
bad no linen with him, which he used to have,
when he went to London.
X. C. J. But, supposing he had no linen,
night he not go to London, and you not
kaowit?
Winford. I cannot tell whether he was ab-
sent, or no, long enough to do it.
Gmvnn. Pniy, my lord, let me speak ; as I
lire, an innocent man will be lost else. He
says expressly, I was in (own in July; and gives
thjs argument for it, That Mr. Ash by was in
town, and he met me with him.
X. C. J. No, no ; Mr. Oates was not so post-
ure r He says, it was either in June or July ;
but be rather thinks it was July. But, mistress,
aright not he, in the beginning of July, be an-
ient so long, as a man might go to London,
sad return again ; in the first three weeks of
Jaly, I mean ?
Winford. My lord, I cannot charge my
ttemory, because f did not know what i should
be asked, mod so could not recollect myself.
I only say I am confident of it> because he aU
ways told me, wheu he went such a journey,
that I might make provision of linen to fit htm
for it.
X. C. J. Your reasons are weak ; because
he used to tell you, that you might get him
linen: Men, upon extraordinary occasions, do
extraordinary things; so that you are not to
govern yourself by what he used to do, in his
acquainting you, or you in providing his linen.
Thi* was no ordinary errand, and therefore I
do not ask you whether he had linen from you,
or no ; but you are only to charge yourself with
remembering whethtr he could not be absent
long enough out of your sight, to have been
such a journey ?
Gavan. Pray, my lord, give me fair play.
He does charge it expressly, and is precise to
a day: He saith, I was here in July, after that
Ashby was come to town, and before that he
went out of town: And he says, That Ashby
came to town in the middle of July, and went
out of town about the latter end of July, or be-'
ginning of August. Now, my lord, I say this/
he saying that Ashby Cftme to town the middle
of July, and staid there a fortnight, and then '
went to the Bath, and that I came to town
while that he was there ; if I prove that I was
in Staffordshire from the 15th or 16th of July
to the end- of the month, then I shall clear my-
self evidently ; for he does, in effect, charge me
to be here, some time in that fortnight's time,
and I prove, that all the latter part of July I'
was in the country.
L. C. J. He does not charge it to a day, but
he says it was about a fortnight.
Oates. Mr. Ashby came to town in the be-
ginning or middle of July ; I rather think it was
the middle, but I dare not, upon my oath, be
positive as to the time; and in that time that
Mr. Ashby staid in town, Mr. Gavan came to
London : For I remember, he said he would gof
and see Father Ashby, who was then at Wild-
House.
X. C. J. Prove where you were now, all
July. Call your witnesses.
Goran. I prove that I was at Wolverhamp-
ton, from the 23d. to the end of the month.
X. C. J. Call your witnesses to prove where*
you were the beginning, that can speak ex-
pressly to it.
Gavan. My lord, I have them not here.
X. C. J. Why then would you make us lose '
all thisrtime ?
Gavan. My lord, I will tell you; hear the
words of an ingenuous man : Being, as I was,
innocent, not knowing what they intended to*
charge me with, I, in my mind, run over all
that I could imagine I had at any time done,
that they could lay hold ori. If I had been
guilty of any thing, my own conscience would
have told me of it; and I should have provided
to have given some answer to it: But being in-
nocent, I was to ransack my memory, to sum
up all the passages of my life ; where I had
beeb, what I bad said, what I had done, that
would give them any occasion of accusinjg me.
383] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Thomas mkcbread, [384
And .because I did imagine they might think I [
was here, the 24th of April, I brought witnesses
for that ; and because I did imagine that they
might speak of some consults in April, I sent
up for such witnesses, at my own charge, as
could testify where I was then.
L. C. J. But you have not one protestant,
that testifies for you.
Gavan. And now, my lord, I humbly cast
myself upon the honour and justice of this
honourable and just court ; to which I submit
myself, with all my heart and soul, haying used
all the remedies I can. I have cleared myself,
as to the main day, the 24th of April, whereon
all the pretended plot lies : And I will bring
witnesses that shall swear, I wjs not in London
in August; and if my eternal salvation lay
apon it, I could aver, I was not in London :
And I wish I may be made an example of jus-
tice before all the world (in the sight of God I
speak it) if I be not the most innocent person
in the world. And, my lord, seeing there is
only his oath for it, and my denial, I have only
one demand ; I do not know, whether it be an
extravagant one or no; if it be, I do not desire
to have it granted.
X. C. J. What is that demand ?
Gavan. You know, that in the beginning of
the church (this learned and just Court must
needs know that) that for 1,000 years together,
it was a custom, and grew to a constant law,
for the trial of persons accused of any capital
offence, where there was only the accuser's
oath, and the accused's denial, for the prisoner
to put himself upon'the trial of Ordeal, to evi-
dence his own inuocency.
L. C. J. North, We have no such law now.
X. C. J. You are very fanciful, Mr, Gavan;
you believe that your cunning in asking such a
thing, will take much with the auditory ; but
this is only an artificial varnish : You may do
this with hopes of having it take with those that
are Roman Catholics, who are so superstitious
as to believe innocency upon such desires; but
we have a plain way of understanding here in
England, and that helped very much by the
protestant religion : So that there is scarce any
artifice big enough to impose upon us. You
ask a thing that sounds much of a pretence to
innocency, and that it would he mighty suffer-
ing, if you should miscarry, because you ask
that you know you cannot have. Our eyes and
our understandings are left us, though you do
not leave their understandings to your prose-
lytes: But you are mistaken, if you think to
impose that upon us that you do upon them ;
and yoo do so impose upon them. But I will
tell you, there is scarce any man with us that
can be a papist : For you cannot deceive and
gull us, as you have done all that you have per-
verted to your way.
Gavan. Is it any harm, my lord, to ask whe-
ther I might not be so tried ?
L. C. J. North. Look you here, Mr. Gavan,
the time is far spent; if you have any thing to
say, we will hear you; if you have any wit-
atsaesj call them, and we will examine them :
3
But if not, the other prisoners must be admitted
to make their defence, as well as you.
Gavan. All these six can prove, that I was at
Wolverhampton the last week in July.
Then another Witness stood up for him.
Gavan. Where was I in July ?
Witness. I cannot speak to all July ; but,
my lord, I can declare, that Mr. Gavan was in
Staffordshire the last week of July, every day,
I am confident.
X. C. J. Where was he, the first three weeks
in July ?
Witness. I cannot speak as to that ; but in
the last week in July, he came to an apartment
of an house that I lived in.
X. C. J. Look you, Mr. Gavan, you see
what this evidence is ; she says, that you were
in Staffordshire the last week in July, for you
had an apartment in the house she lived in.
Call another. [Who stood up.]
X. G\ /. Where was Mr. Gavan in July
last?
2 Witness. My lord, I saw him myself, at
the latter end of July, for very many days ; for
he was in a room of the house that I lived in, I
am sure, most of the last week.
X. C. J. Where was he the" last fortnight?
2 Witness. I am confident I saw him all the
last fortnight, but I cannot be positive.
X. C. J. Call another. [Who stood up."]
X. C. J. Where was Mr. Gavan in July ?
3 Witness. My lord, I lived in the same
town with him, and I do not remember that he
was out all July, but the last week he was in
our house.
X. C. J. Well, call another. [Who stood
up.]
X. C. J. Where was Mr. Gavan in July last ?
4 Witness. He was, in July last, the last
week, in a part of our house.
X. C. J. So then he came home, from Lon-
don, the 23d or 24th of Jul?. Well, Mr.
Gavan, have you any more witnesses, to any
other purpose ? For here are enough to this.
Gavan. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Mr. Whitebread, have you any wit-
nesses to call ?
Whitebread. My lord, I have only this, and I
desire to be heard in this point, to prove that
Mr. Oates was mistaken in his evidence that he
gave at the last trial, against Mr. Ireland.
X. C. X Look you, I must break in upon
you; you have been told so often, all of you
have been told it, and yet you are upon the
former trials again. You are now upon your
trial for your life; if you could have disproved
any thing that he said at a former trial, yon
should have taken a legal way, and convicted
him of perjury ; but now to charge bim with a
printed papeV, is not fair. You must speak t*
what he says now.
Whitebread. He says the same now. Bat
all that I say is this, If he be not honest, he
can be witness in no case. I suppose if any-
one can prove him not probus testis, his tests-
' raony is not to be received in any case*
SW] STATE TRIALS, S 1 Cbaki.es IL
L.C.J. Bat how will 70a prove that? Come
oo7 I will teach you a tittle logic; if you will
MOffe to contradict a Witness, you ought to do
it in a matter which is the present debate here;
for if yon would eonvict him of any thing that
he said in Ireland's Trial, we mutt try Ireland's
eaaie over again. But if you will say any thing
against what he says now, do.
Wkit&rtad. That which I would alledge is
this. If he be convicted of perjury in one case,
he is not to he believed in another.
L.C.J. You say right if he be convicted.
WkUchrimd. lie is not only then fen incom-
petent witness, for he cannot be said to be jun-
tos testis but be is improbus. Now, this is that
I can prove.
Just. Femberton. Nay, you mast shew it by
a record.
JL C. J. You cannot have so little under-
standing ; you that have been, and were to be,
so great a man among them ; had been provin-
cial, and was to have been somewhat else. I
have told you already, that to prove him to be
a man that hath no faith in him, he must be
convicted. You must have indicted him, and
convicted him, of the thing wherein be did
commit perjury, and then be had been prepared
to justify himself. But shall you come now,
and at this your trial, and prove what be said
at Stanley's Trial, and Coleman's Trial, and
Ireland's Trial? Aud must we examine what
matters have received a verdict and a judg-
ment there? For, consider what will be the
consequence of it; if it should be false, you
there arraign a verdict. You should have con-
victed him of the falsehood first.
WhUebread. I desire the jury to take notice,
that he does not stick to the testimony that be
gave then, for if be does, it was false.
L. C. J, They must not take notice of any
thing that was done at a former trial, unless it
be spoken of now.
I* C. J. North. Do not call any witnesses
to prove what he said then, but to disprove
what he bath said now.
L. C. J. It is a pretty hard matter to make
a priest understand one, for what I see. If the
witness shall not gain credit with the jury, that
at came over with sir Thomas Preston, sir John
Warner; if they are satisfied by those many
witnesses 10 or IS, at least, that it is false, they
ougit not to believe him ; but as to that tes-
timony, they ought to believe vour witnesses ;
hot be » not presently guilty of perjury : For if
they should not give credit to Mr. Oates, you
mast indict him, and another jury must pass
open him, before he is convicted: For it is one
thing to he forsworn and perjured, and ano-
ther thing to be proved so, and be is not proved
to be so, bat bv a record for that purpose.
Harcourt. ^f so b» our witoesses cannot be
looked upon as good witnesses, then there can
be no commerce abroad in any other country.
JL C. J. They are, no doubt, good witnesses,
till they be proved otherwise; and they are left
to the Jury to believe as they think fit.
Harcourt, Now here, are divers things that
*ou vn. .
others, for High Treason. [386
are brought against myself, by Mr. Bedlow, Mr*
Praunce, Mr. Oates, and Mr. Dngdaie; if the
witnesses that I bring, because they are Roman
Catholics, are not good witnesses, then I am in
a hard case.
L. C. J. North. Look then, you mistake the
thing ; those that are not witnesses, we do not
hear at all ; but our hearing them at all, proves
that we look upon them as good witnesses. But
when a man is a witness, he is either of more
credit, or of less credit, according to the cir-
cumstances ; and it is a proper question to
ask them, whether they are Roman Catholics.
But they are witnesses, without all question.
Harcourt. I say, my lord, these persons are
known to be every one of them very bad and
flagitious persons, and that every one of them
have undertaken this course, merely to get a
livelihood : they are men of desperate fortunes,
they get a living by swearing last, they find that
the best trade.
L. C. J. North. If you have any other wit-
nesses, we will hear them : if you have no other
witnesses, then we must hear what the king a
counsel reply, and then it will be your turn to
say what you can in your defence.
Gavan. I have witnesses here : it is not
indeed a positive evidence, but a negative evi-
deuce; and I have a brother and a sister in
town, and upon my salvation I never came to
town, but I came to their house.
L. C. J. That will signify nothing. Mr. Hnr-
court, have you any more witnesses ? If you
have them, pray call them.
Harcourt. It is in vain to call them, if they
be not to be believed, because they are Roman
Catholics.
Sir Cr. Levins. It is a mistake, we do not
refuse any witnesses, because they are Roman
Catholics.
X. C. J. No, we have not refused any one
point yet. .
L. C. J. North. If you have any more, pray
call them, and do not spend the time.
L. C. J. Call a priest or two, if you will, we
will hear them.
Harcourt. Mr. Oates did accuse me of pay-
ing fourscore pounds at my chamber, and he
did say afterwards it was at Wild-House. I
have persons to justify what was done at my
own chamber ; and he says Mr. Ireland was
by ; now here are witnesses to prove, that Mr.
Ireland was in Staffordshire all the month of
August, therefore he could not be present, \
L. C. J. Does he sayany such thing now ?
Justice Femberton. That was urged before ;
pray do not insist upon that, it hath received
a trial.
L. C. J. I will tell you what he says, and
I will ask him the question : Dr. Oates, it is
supposed by your testimony, that Mr. Ireland
and Mr. Ilarcourt were together, when this
fourscore pounds was paid, for the villains that
went to Windsor to murder the king ?
Oates. I never said such a word.
Harcourt. Here it is in the trial.
L. C. J. I stand not by the printed trial, it
2C ' x
1
3S7] STATE TRIADS, 3 1 Craules II. . 1 07 9.+~Trial qf Thomas Whitehead, [388
is no record in law. In short, were Mr. Ire-
land and Mr. Harcourt together at that time ?
Oate$. No, they were not.
Gavan. He did then say, that he did receive
of Mr. Ireland, the 2d of September, 20*. that
lie borrowed of him ; now the 2d of September
he was at Boscobel.
Oates. My lord, I was not positive as to the
day ; but as near as I remember, (those were
the words I said) it was the 2d of September ;
bat whether it was the 1st, 2d, 7th, 8th or 9tb,
I would not he positive in it.
Then the prisoners called Pendrel and his
wife, and Gifford and his wife ; and Gifford
stood up.
Gifford. My lord, I was here1 the last ses-
sions, where I did testify the seeing of Mr.
Ireland in Staffordshire, on the 94 th of August,
Bartholomew-day, and the next day after ; at
which time Mr. Oates so id that he saw him
here in town. But Mr. Oates could not be par-
ticular in every thing ; but at last he came to
a circumstance, and averred, that the 1st or 2d
of September he did receive 20i. of Mr. Ire-
land, in Harcourt's chamber ; he said it was
about the fast-day.
Oates. That was as near as I remembered.
Gifford. Here is in court at least six people
that know it ; I saw him several other of those
days there ; but these six people conversed
with him every day.
Justice Ptmberton. How do you know all
that?
L. C. J. North. Come, come, you must not
•peak, as to what he said in Ireland's trial.
L. C. J. What time was it that Mr. liar*
court and Mr. Ireland conferred together about
this same business ?
Oates. My lord, I do not charge Ireland,
but I charge Harcourt with being at Wild-
House, and that there Coleiuan met him, and
that there was the greatest part of the money,
which was carried back to Harcourt s chamber,
and given to the person that was to carry it
down to Windsor; but Mr. Coleman was gone
away before, and had left a guinea behind him,
which was ' given to the messenger for expe-
dition.
L. C. J. I am mistaken, if you have not tes-
tified that Ireland was m town in August and
September with Harcourt.
Oatei. Ireland took his leave of London
betwixt the 8th and the 12th of August, as to
go to St. Omers.
X. C. J. Here is the matter, they must have
right, though there £e never so much time lost,
and patience spent. Say they, we must prove
and contradict men by such matters as we can ;
people may swear downright things, and it is
impossible to contradict them ; but we will
call witnesses to prove those particulars that
can be proved : say where Mr. Ireland was in
August
Oates. He took his leave of us in town jo
August, and that was between the 8th -and
14tb, at Harcourt's chamber.
L. C. J. What do you infer from Ireland's
being there then ?
Oates. I will tell yon .what I design in it s
your lordship may perceive that 1 did metho-
dize my evidence according to the time ; for I-
said, this was our business in April, this in
July, and now we come to the business of Au-
gust, said I, we took our leaves of Mr. Ireland
between the 8ih and 12th. I said, in July Mr.
Fenwick was out of town, but then, if your
lordship remembers, I said, he was in town,
and took his leave of Mr. Ireland, between the
8th and the 12th of August.
X. C. J. Was Mr. Ireland in Fenwick 'scorn*
pany at tbat time i n August ? -
Oates. Yes, my lord, he was when he took
his leave.
L. C. J. Did they talk then of this business?
Oates. They took their leaves of one another,
but as to what particular things of the Plot they
spoke about, I do not remember.
L. C. J. Look you now, mind what he says,
Ireland and Fenwick were together in August,
between the 8th and the 12th; but being
asked, Whether they were not on purpose to
talk of the plot ? He says, he does not remem-
ber the particulars.
Here the Lady Southcott, her son, and her
daughter, were called.
L. C. J. Did yon say, that Fenwick, there
nt the bar, bad converse with Ireland in
August, for the carrying on of the plot ?
Oates. Ye*, my Lord.
L. C.J. My rule is this, in doubtful cases,
when men are upon their lives, I had rather
hear what is impertinent, to itiv not let them
make a fall defence.
L. C. J. North. I had rather hear things at
a venture, than forbid things at a venture.
Lady Southcott stood up.
L. C. J. How long were you in Mr. Ire-
land% company ?
Lady Southcott. From the 5th of August to
the 16th.
L. C. J. What, every day ?
Lady Southcott. Yes, every day.
Oates. My Lords, here is Sarah Pain, who
before bath testified what she hath known in
this matter. If your lordship please, I desire
she may be called in readiness to speak to it,
L. C. J. Are you sure it was the 5th ?
Lad j Southcott. Yes, as sure as I can be of
anything. .
JUeorder. Dr. Oates, you had . best keep
yoar evidence entire till the last.
Then Sir John Southcott was called, and ap-
peared.
L. C. J. Did you know Mr. Ireland ?
Sir John Southcott. Yes, I did know htm
by race.
L. C. J. Where did you see him ?
Sir John Southcott. I saw him the 5th of
August, at St. Albans:
i. C. J. And did he travel along with you ?
%&] STATE TRIALS, $ l Charles IL
Sir Join Southcott. Yes, be did travel
tlong with os the 6th, 7|h, 8th, and 9th.
X. C X How many days did ha travel along
with you ?
Sir John Southcott. He travelled along with
at Soar days together, I am sure.
L. C.J. What from the 5th to the 9th 2
Sir John Southcott. Yes, Sir.
X. C. /. Is this all that you can say t
Sir John Southcott. Yes, my Lord.
X. C J. But we would know where he was
afterwards. Did you see him after the 9th ?
Sir John Southcott. My Lord, I saw him at
St. Albans, and he went from thence to North-
ampton,- and from thence to Coventry, and
from thence to my lord Aston'*, that is four
days ; and I saw htm Thursday, I saw him Fri-
day, Saturday, and Monday following. Tuesday
I had occasion to go further into the country, and
he went along with us ; so I saw him Tues-
day, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday after-
wards.
L. C% J. Why then you saw him at least
twelve days?
Sir John Southcott. Yes.
X. C J. Have you any more ?
Then Mr. Edward Southcott stood up.
L. C. J. Were you here when Ireland was
tried?
Sir Join Southcott. Ne.
L. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in August
last?
Mr. Southcott. The 3d of August he came
down to my lord Aston's at Stanmore, they
said so; but I cannot swear he came that
night; but I saw him very early the next
morning ; the 5th we went to St. Albans, and
we kept on till we came to Tixall ; and I was
m his company from the 4tb to the 16th.
X. C. J. Why, yoir bear what he says, He
was in company with him every day from the
4th to the 16th.
Gave*. Call Mrs. Harewell, and her daugh-
ter, Mrs. Gifford and Mrs. Pendrell.
• »
Then Mrs. Harewell stood up.
X. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in August
last?
Harewell. I saw Ireland in August last,
fbel7tbrfay: He came then to my house at
Wolverhampton, and there be continued every
day, and lay in my bouse every nighty till the
ftfchday.
Then young Mrs. Harewell stood up.
Harewell. Mr. Ireland came to our house
iq Staffordshire the .17th of August, and staid
mere till the 36th ; I saw him every day, unless
h was Friday, the day before Bartholomew-
day, when lie went to Lichfield and returned
again.
Go***: My Xotd, there is a prisoner now
ta Newgate that can testify the same.
L. C. J. North. Would you ask your fellow
if you be a thief? He ie in for the same offence.
Guvan. My Lord, I desire so know, if a man
1 670 — <md others, for High Trcasm. [&Mr
*
[ be not convicted of the same offence, whether
lie t?e not a good witness ?
L. C. J. North. If he stand charged of the
same plot his evidence is of little weight.
Then Elizabeth Keiling stood up.
X. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in Au*
gust ?
Keiling. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. Where did you see him ?
Keiling. I saw him at Wolverhampton, there
he was from Saturday the 17th, to Monday,
and then I went to see my mother, and came
back again on Thursday, and found him there,
and there he was till the f6ta.
Gavan. CaH Mr. Pendrell and bis wife.
Then Pendrell stood up.
X. C. J. When did you see Mr. Ireland ?
Pendrell. I saw him the 2nd and 3d of Sep-
tember.
X. C. J. Where did you see him ?
Pendrell. At Boscobel.
X. C. J. And what, did you see him in
August?
Pendrell. No, my lord.
X. C. J. How do you know you saw him
then ?
Pendrell. My wife being paid for his diet, set
down the day.
X. C. J. What, he came to sojourn with you,
did he ?
Pendrell. They were with me for their meals,
and so ray wife set it down.
X, C. J. Why, do you set down the day of
the month when any one comes to you?
Pendrell. Yes, my lord, when we are pati for
their diet, we do.
X. C. J. What, do you keep a public
house ?
Pendrell. I keep the Royal Oak.
X. C. J, Metbiaks, yeu should have a
great deal of company, if you live there ; and
it is hard you should charge yourself to reraem-
"ber a particular person you did not know be-
fore.
Pendrell. My lord, he told me his name was
Ireland, and several others did so too*
X. C. J. Yon had as good have let such trivial
evidences as this alone. Bat go on.
Then Mrs. Pendrell stood up.
9
X. C. J. Do you know Mr. Ireland ?
Mrs. Pendrell. .1 did know by report it was
be.
X. C. J. Where did you see him in August or
September ?
Mrs. Pendrell. At Boscobel, my lord.
X. C. J. Did you ever see him before that
time ? ...
Mrs. Pendrell. No; my lord.
X. C. J. Do you know it was the same man
that suffered?
Mrs. Pendrell. I will take my oath of it.
X. C. X How ! when you never saw him be-
fore that time ?
Mrs, Pendrell. I was in town when he died.
391] ' STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles n. \&I9+-Waltf Thomas Whitehead, [393
Fenwick. Mv lord, be can prove something
against Mr. Bedlow : He says, he lived in good
repute ; but the captain will tell you, be was in
the Marshalsea, and lived a poor mean life, and
all the time fed upon the basket.
X. C. J. North, He was guilty of tbe same
treasons that you are guilty of, tliere is bis
fault.
X. C. J. No doubt he was a naughty man, be
was with you in this plot.
Fenwick. I can prove by sir James Butler's
clerk, that be cheated a cutler of a siiver'-bilted
sword.
[Then sir James Butler's clerk was called ;
but be having more than one, and tbe person
meant not being there, there could nothing be
examined about that.]
X. C. J. North. He hath had the,kios/s par*
don for all that.
Fenwick. He was forced to run tbe country
for a many cheats, and was forced to borrow 4
or 5$. to redeem his boots. My lord, does bit
pardon make bim a good witness ? then we will
prove something since his pardon.
X. C. J. No doubt he was bad enough white
he was with you.
Whitebreaa. My lord, I think I have a plain
demonstration against Mr. Bedlow since his
pardon ; he did at my last trial say, that be had
nothing to say against me, and now be comes
and gives fresh evidence against me.
X. C. J. North. That is an objection that
will not take away his evidence, but only goes
to tbe lessening of the credit of it. He says be
was in treaty with Mr. Reading about you, and
the lords in the Tower ; and to beget a confi-
dence in him that tbe lords in tbe Tower should
receive favour from him, and come off by bis
means, he was to be easy to you too, which
made him lessen his evidence at that time.
This is that he says, the weight of it must
be left to tbe Jury. And he said at that time
he had more to say at time and place conve-
nient.
Whitebrttd. There is no such thing in the
trial. He hath alledged great matters against
me, therefore it is evident he did falsify bis
oath ; for if he were to swear the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but tbe truth, and he
did not say the whole truth, he is perjured ; if
he did, he can say nothing against me now.
X. C. J. North. Mr. Whitebread, you have
your objection, and it must be observed to
tbe Jury. Your repeating of things signifies
nothing.
Then Captain Hill stood up.
Fenwick. Pray, Sir, what do you know of Mr.
Bedlow?
Justice Pemberton. But don't ask any thing
before tbe pardon.
Hilt, l knew him in the Marshalsea.
Fenwick. In what condition was he there*
Sir?
Hill. He was a poor man, as I be, and lived
upon the basket.
Then stood up Mrs. Gifford.
X. C. J. When did you see Mr. Ireland ?
Gifford. My lord, Mr. Ireland came to Wol-
verhampton August Ifth, and be staid there till
the 26th, it was of a Monday, I remember it by
several circumstances.
X. C. J. Did you know Mr. Ireland ?
Gifford. I never saw him before.
X. C. J. Do you kpow it was tbe same that
died?
Gifford. My lord, here was my brother in
town, who saw him executed, and he did assure
me he was the same : And I saw him again tbe
2nd of September, and the 7th of September
again, and the 10th and 11th : my lord, be was
the same man, I believe, because my brother
told me so.
Mr. Gifford. I saw him in the country, and I
saw him executed.
Then another Mrs. Gifford stood up.
Mrs. Gifford. I saw him at^Pancrass fair in
Staffordshire.
X. C. J. Was it the same man that was exe-
cuted?
Mrs. Gifford. My lord, I cannot say that, I
did not see him suffer ; but my sister and I were
at the window, and she shewed biin to me, and
said that was Mr. Ireland, and told me how
)oac be bad been in England.
L. C. J. How do you know that was tbe
man that was executed ? Did you see him tried
here?
Mrs. Gifford. Yes, my lord, I did.
L. C.J\ And that was the same man ?
Mrs. Gifford. Yes, it was, my lord.
£. C. f. When was it your sister shewed you
bim?
Mrs. Gifford. I saw bim upon the 7th of Sep-
tember.
Then stood up one Mr, Bedle.
L. C. J. When did you see Mr. Ireland ?
Bedle. I saw bim at a place called Millage in
Staffordshire, the 2nd of September.
X. C. J. Are you a Roman Catholic ?
Bedle. If I most make a confession of my
faith, I will. But I saw him there, and they said
it wafc Mr. Ireland the Jesuit.
X. C. J. Had you no acquaintance with him
before?— Bedle. No.
X. C. J. How do you know it is the same
'man that suffered?
Bedle. I do not know that, but I suppose, it
was the same.
Turner. I am accused for being at Tixall at
a consult in September, I desire to know who
•aw me there, for I have not been there these
four years.
X. C. J. Mr. Dugdale saw you there.
Turner. What witnesses besides ?
X. C. J. None but he for that.
Recorder. Hath Mr. Fenwick any more wit-
nesses to call.
Fenwick. My lord, I have not any.
Then was Captain Hill called.
4
883] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles H. t679 and others, for High Trcmon. [394
Harctmrt. How long ago is it since you knew
Mm there ?
HUi. Id May was twelvemonth.
X. C. J. That was long before his pardon.
Bat he might be an honest man for all ,that,
though he were as poor as you. Are yon an
honest man f
HOI. Yes, I think so.
X. C. J. And so might he be. Well, have
yoo any more ?
Prutmert. No.
Sir Cr. Larinz. Gentlemen of the Jury, you
hate heard the prisoners, and they have bad a
great deal of time to make their defence; but
the greatest part of their defence hath been to
invalidate die testimony of Mr. Oates ; and what
is the evidence they have brought against him?
They tell you first, That he did not oome over
in that company that be says be came over
with. And whereas he hath sworn he was
here the 34th of April, they have taken a great
deal of pains by 15 or 16 witnesses to prove
that he was all the time at St. Omers ; and that
sir John Warner, and sir Thomas Preston, who
he tells jon came over in company with him,
never stirred from the places of their residence,
that is liege and Watton, all that time : but
this, gentlemen, you most observe, that if Mr.
Oaten were out of the case, all these persons,
except Mr. Turner, are proved guilty of the
treason* they are charged with ; and yet I shall
set op his testimony, and make him clear, not-
withstanding whatsoever hath been alleged
against him. Gentlemen, to take them in or-
der, Mr. Whitebread bath Mr. Ougdale, Mr.
Bedtow, and Mr. Praunce, to prove him guilty,
let what will come of Mr. Oates, all of them
speak to him.
L. C. J. Praunce, do yon speak any thing
against Mr. Whitebread ?
Prattnet. No.
Recorder. It was Fenwick and Harcourt.
Sir C. Levins. But there is Bedlow and Dog*
dale against Mr. Whitebread ; and therefore,
gentlemen, there are two have sworn against
bun, besides Oates; and there is two against
Mr. Fenwick at least; nay, there are three,
for besides Oates there is Bedlow and Praunce ;
as to Mr. Harcourt, there is Bedlow, Dug-
•ale and Praunce, besides Mr. Oates; as
to Mr. Gavan, there is Oates and Dugdale ;
indeed there is none but Oates and Dugdale
agunst Turner ; so that as to the three first,
however, there are two witnesses besides Mr.
Oates, that is, against Mr. Whitebread, Mr.
Fenwick, and Mr. Harcourt. Now as for Mr.
OateVs testimony, and what they have to say
to him; in the first place, they have brought a
young gentleman, Mr. Hilsley, and he says he
did not come over with him, and there it is one
against one, but Dr. Oates hath sworn it, and
hath given yon such convincing circumstances
how be lost bis money, &c. so that I leave it
to you which of the two is in the right, and
ought to be believed. But then, my lord, as
to the rest of the witnesses, here are a great
many brought ever to prove that Mr. Oates
was all the while at St Omers ; but I shall
bring you a considerable number of witnesses
to prove that Dr. Oates was then in London,
and that all these persons are mistaken. They
do all pitch upon the first of May to fix it
upon a time wherein he says he was here in
town : but, gentlemen, 1 hope you did observe,
that as to other things and time that were not
so necessary as to this matter, there they were
pleased to mistake, and to diner one from ano-
ther, to contradict one another; for some of
them said he went away' and left St. Omers the
10th day of June, others the 23d, others, which
was the same Flemish gardener, that he staid
till July. Truly half that variance in the time
which is necessary would serve our turn, we
are but for eight days time, that is, he was not '
above eight or ten days here; truly these gen*
tlemen will be sure to speak punctually to all
those eight days that hurt the prisoners, but
they will vary thirty days at another time that
hurts them not. Why may they not be mis-
taken as well with that portion af time, as they
were in the other, . wherein they so much dif-
fered one from another ?— But I shall give you
most infallible proof by and by, that Mr. Oates
was in England at that time that he said he
was in England. My lord, as to that of sir
John Warner, truly we have sent for a witness,
but we did not know of the objection before;
they have now brought you the gardener, and
he did sav positively at first that sir John War-
ner was there ail that while, bat being asked
again how be knew it, he said it was the talk
of the country, and so some of the witnesses
did speak to sir Thomas Preston. But then I
did desire to know of these witnesses, whether
these persons were never absent from these
places or not, they told me they were absent
for some time in the vacancy.
Gavan. That wa» in August*
Sir Cr. Levins. You are very good at ex-
pounding, I know, but what those vacancies
were I am not certain ; but being apt to mis-
take a little, they might mistake the time too,
and they might extend their journey beyond
their vacancy. Mr. Gavan he hatb made a
mighty defence, I must confess, endeat curing
to prove that he was out of town all June and
July, and in April and May before, and truly
he hath brought some witnessestbat have spoken
very far from him as to those months, but I
will desire you to observe, as I know you did,
that the three last witnesses that knew him
very well did affirm positively that he was there
the last week in July, but being asked to the
week before that,- and the week before that,
they could not be positive. And, under fa-
vour, by that evidence you will believe rather
that be was not there, for if so be they could
so positively remember for the last week, why
should they not be as positive for the two
weeks before? Why, these two weeks were
enough to serve eur turn, for it was towards
the latter end of Jury that which Mr. Oates
hath sworn upon Mr. Gavan, that he was in
town, and talked of the same matters which he
$)5] STATE TRIALS, 31 ChaiilesI!. 16:9.—Ti*dqf Thomas Whitehead, [306
bad written the letter about. And therefore it
is much to be presumed, that because the wit-
nesses will take upon them as to the last week,
they are sure he was at Wolverhampton, hot
as to' the two other weeks they could not be
sure ; that they speak with some conscience,
aud therefore it may be true that he was. here.
And the woman said she could not say but
possibly be might make such a journey, and
she never the wiser. So that under favour,
gentlemen, all that which Mr. Gavan bath so
industriously endeavoured to lay upon Mr.
Gates, does shrink into a very slender evidence,
and that it might well be lie was at London at
the time that Oates aavs, the three last wit-
nesses speaking positively only to the last week
in July.— Then truly, my lord, they are fixed
upon another great matter to blemish Mr.
Oates as to Mr. Ireland, a person that is dead
and out of the way. Mr. Ireland hath been
hanged upon- that evidence, so far it was be-
lieved; but now after all this, will these gen-
tlemen come to question the evidence that was
given against Mr. Ireland. They have like-
wise, my lord, brought my lady Southcott, and
some other persons, who give you an evidence
concerning Mr. Ireland, that he should not be
here at this time ; but, gentlemen, under fa-
vour, Mr. Oates hath sworn before, and he
hath now sworn it again, that Mr. Ireland win
at that time in London, and, gentlemen, I will
confirm bini in that by another witness that did
see him here m town at that time. And when
jou have two witnesses for the king upon their
oaths come and testify it, I hope you will be-
lieve'them, rather than other persons that tes-
tify only by hearsay. It was the matter then
in issue, and had saved his life if it had been
true ; but though it be now settled, and none
could think it would be again started, they
would make that an objection ; but by chance
we have a witness still to give you satisfaction,
that Mr. Ireland was in London at that time
that Mr. Oates did swear him to be. We will
begin with that witness about Ireland. And
then we will call our witnesses to prove that
Mr. Oates was in England, and did come over
when he said he did. Call Sarah Paine. Who
was sworn.
Sir Cr. Levin*. .What time did you see Mr.
Ireland in London ? did you see him in August
last? * -
8. Paine. I saw him about seven or eight
days before I came to my Lord Chamberlain,
and that was about a week before the king
vent to Windsor.
X. C. J. Where did you see him ?
S. Paine. At his own door in Rttssetotreet..
X. C. J. Did yon speak to him ?
' ' 8. Paine. No, I know him very well, and
taw him as I came by.
Sir Or. Levinz. Had not you carried many
setters to him ? — S. Paine. Yes, several letters.
Sir Cr. Levins. Where did you live before?
S. Paine. I lived at Mr. Grove's.
SirO. Levins, DM not Mr. Ireland use to
oemc there too ?
S. Paine. Yes, be did often.
X. C. J. Was any one talking with Ireland
then ?
S. Paine. No.
Sir Cr. Levins, How long did you look upon -
him ? Did you see him go in ? did yon see his
face or his back ?
S. Paine. I saw bis fane, and made him a
curtsy.
L. C. J. This she said to Ireland's face.
Justice Dolben. Your evidence is, that Mr.
Ireland went out of town the 5th of August,
and she* says she saw him about that time,
which must be the 19th or 14th of August.
Guvan. How does she prove it ? She does
not say she spoke with bim.
Justice Dolben. She swears it.
Sir Cr. Levins. Now we mast prov* what
time the king went to Windsor.
X. C. J. Sir Thomas Dolessan, what time
in August did the king go to Windsor last
summer ?
Sir Tho. Dolersan. I believe (I cannot charge
my memory so well) it was the 13th, it was
about the 12th or 13th.
X. C. J. Was my Lord Chamberlain there
then?
8. Paine. My Lord Chamberlain went after
the king.
X. C. J. And when do you say you saw Ire-
land?
8. Paine. I saw him seven or eight days
before I went to my Lord Chamberlain's, which
was before my* lord went to Windsor, and that
was a week after the king went thither.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Now I will tell you what
she says ; she says she saw Ireland a week be-
fore she went to my Lord Chamberlain's, and
she saw him go into Grove's bouse, where he
did usually go for letters ; she says she saw his
face, and made him a curtsy ; and that this was
a week before she went to my Lord Chamber-
lain's, and that was a week after the king went
to Windsor. Now the time that Mr. Oates
pitches upon is between the 8th and 12th of
August, which by computation is the time she
speaks of.
Gavan. And our witnesses go from the 3rd
of August to the 14th of September.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Call sir Richard Barber,
William Walker, Sarah Ives, &c.
William Walker was first sworn, and bid to
stand up.
Sir Cr. Levins. Pray, SW, do yon know that
Mr. Oates was in England the beginning of last
summer ? Pray tell your whole knowledge.
Walker. Yes, my lord, I will. I have known
Mr. Titus Oates these seven years, and had not
seen htm above five years ; but about two yean
ngo I did meet bim in Newgate-market, and
then again in the latter -end of the month of
March 1678,* or the hepntiiug of April, I dad
see Mr. Oates in a disguise in a gray serge
coat, And I think a gray hat; but I did not
understand it, nor did I know him to be t be
man ; and I was 'very much troubled that I
997] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II: ld7ft and ottos, for High Trcasbn. [398
oooldaotrecoflect^ayselfwho he was, and I
went to bed, and could hot rtcollect who he
was ; hat before I rose i« the morning I did
draw him within the scheme of my knowledge,
that it was Titus Oates; and to confirm my
judgment in thnt, I did go to a gentlewoman,
whose name I did not know, but I went thither
because it was the sane place that I had seen
htm at a year before, to enquire what became
of Mr* Oates, and bow he did : and when I
came to her (in the morning early, it was the
next day after I had seen him in disguise)
I enquired of the gentlewoman how Mr. Oates
did, and she clapped her hand upon her coun-
ter, being a tradeswoman, * O/ said she, ' he is
' an undone man ?' ' Why so P said I. Said
she, ' He is turned to the church of Rome, and
' he absconds and hides himself, I know not
' where he is/ ' Then, in plain terms/ said I,
' I saw. him later than yon, for I saw him ves-
' terday, between nine and ten of the clock, it
' was at the upper end of St. Martin's- lane,
' near Leicester-house.'
Sir Cr. Ltvin*. What time was this ?
Walker. This was in April or March last
was a twelvemonth.
JL C. J. Did you never seebim more than
Walker. No, I knew lu& face so well, as I
looked back upon him, and he looked back
upon me, but it was with some kind of terror,
and be did seem to abscond and bide himself*
JL C. J. Whea was this?
Walker. It was some time from the latter
end of March to the middle of April.
L. C. J. Why did you skip the beginning of
April ?
Walker. I am not able to remember exactly
the time ; ' for why, I did never think to be
called as a witness about it.
L. C J. Did you speak to him ?
Walker. No, my lord, I did not.
L. C. J. IIow long before had you spoke to
him?
Walker. A year before, but in his canonical
habit, and not before of fire years.
L. C. J. North* You will not sure catch him
■poo a day.
L. C. J. But I will tell yon what it does, it
contradicts all that your boys, all your witnesses
•ay : Though it does not go home exactly to
the 94th of April, yet, if it be true, and we
bare no reaon to believe it otherwise, it dis-
proves all their evidence ; for they charge him
to aa?e%een atSt. Omers all March, April, and
May.
Sir Cr. Levi**. Swear Sarah Ives. [Which
was done.]
Oates. My lord, we bring Sarah Ives to
prove that this same gentleman went to her to
T're of her about me .
C. J. Pray Mrs. what did that minister
say to yon, and when, concerning Mr. Oates ?
Ives* Mr. Walker came to my shop, and
asked me when I saw Mr. Oates; said I, I have
aot seen him since he went beyond sea. Then,
said be, I have seen him later than you, for I was
going to Leicester-fields, and at the end of St, ■
Martin's lane I saw him in a disguise, and ha
looked wistly back upon me, and I upon him,
and, said he, I am certain it was the man.
L. C. J. What time wiis this ?
Ivc$. It was April was a twelvemonth.
L. C. J. What time in April, do you think ?
Ives. I cannot say tlie day.
L. C. J. But what time of the month was it?
Ives. I do not know justly, I think it was
the middle of April, or thereabouts.
L. C. J. Call another witness.
Sir Cr. Itvins. Call Mrs. Mayo. [Who was
sworn.]
Sir Cr. Lwinz. Well, what say you, whea
did you see Mr. Oates in England?
Mayo. I never saw his face till a week bo-
fore Wbitsontide, or a little after ; there was a
young man, a servant of sir Richard Barker's,
that knew him a long time before; be came to
me and said, Yonder is Mr. Oates bath changed
bis coat from a black to a white ; what is he,
Said I, He was a minister, but he is either turn*
ed Quaker or Catholic But, said I, he is not
turned Quaker, for he wears a periwig, and he
fell a laughing and jeering at him ; said I, Why
do you deride this gentleman, when he is a friend
of sir Richard Barker's?
L. C. J. Where was Mr. Oates then?
Mayo. He was in the court-yard, and I was)
in the kitchen.
L. C. J. When was tin's ?
Mayo. The week before WhitsotitidCr
Z. C.J. In what month ?
Mayo. It was in May.
L. C. J. Did you know him before then ?
Mayo. No, I did not, but I had heard much*
of him in the family.
X. C J. How soon did you see him agaiav
after that ?
Mayo. About a week after he came and-
brought another with him, and walked into the
garden, and seemed to be discontented that they
did not shew such a countenance to him as thee
used to do in the bouse, for the gentlewomen
bad heard he was turned Jesuit, and therefor*
were very shy ; that is, sir RichardV kinswo-
men, my lady's sisters- daughters.
L. C. J. Do you know Dr. Oate* now r~
Mayo. Very well, sir. Afterwards he came
again and walked into the gaeden, and the
young man I spoke of before* that is now dead,
came again and took notice of bun, of xhe
strange garb he was in ; he was in a room that
looked into the garden, I saw him walking fkere
and said he, Yonder is Oates again and .hath
brought another with htm; he looked- out e*~
the window, and said he, Prithee look hare,
does not he look like a Jesuit ? And he tl»t
was with him looked back, and if it had not
been for that, and theypung man's importunity,
I had never taken notice of Mr. Oates* Alter
when I heard he was come over and ^ga vein bis
testimony about the Plot, I would needs go see .
him ; but he spoke very slightingly to ma, and
seemed to be offended witb the family be-
cause they did scorn him. Said I, They bad n*
999] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chau.es IL 1079 — Trul of Tkamu Whitehead, [400
reason to countenance you, because we all un-
derstood you were turned catholic. Tney did,
said he, look very shy upon me. Why, said I,
you mast not be offended, for you know all the
family are no friends to Jesuits, and I hope
never will be so ; but I hope, Mr. Oates, vou
will not forget eaten bread, because he used to
be made very much of at sir Uichard Barker's.
Sir Cr .Levins, is that the man that you saw
there?
Mayo. This is the man, if you will put me to
jmy oath again I will swear it.
Sir Cr. Levin*. When was this I
Mayo. It was the week before Whitsontide,
it was in May, for Whitsontide fell in May.
Sir Cr. Levins. Then call Philip Page. Who
was sworn.
Sir Cr. Levin*. Do you know Dr. Oates?
Page. Yes,*ir.
Sir Cr. Levin*. How long have you known
him?
4 Page. I have known him four or five years.
L. C.J. Prav did you see him in the year
1678. last year r — Page* Yes, I did.
L. C. J. At what time ?
Page. About the beginning of May*
L. C. X Where ?
Page. At sir Richard Barker's.
X. C. J. Were you acquainted with him be-
fore?
Page. I had spoke with him before.
X. V.J. How do you know it' was he ? did
you speak with him then ?
Page. Yes, I did.
X. C. J, What habit was be in ?
Page. He had' a light coloured campaign
coat. I asked him, where he had been so long a
time, that we had not seen him, but he turned
•way from me, and gave me no account, but
after he bad been in the bouse made back
•gain, and away be went, after he enquired for
sir Richard.
L. C. J. How do yon know it was in May,
why might it not be in April ?
Page. It was in the beginning of May, to
the best of my knowledge.
X. C. J. By tffait material circumstances da
you remember it was in the beginning of May ?
Is there any thing that puts it into your mind
more particularly ?
Page. My master bad a patient at that time,
that was sick of a fever.
L. Q. J. Where ? at sir Richard Barker's
boose? <
Page. At Islington it was.
Jury. We desire to know what the patient's
name was, for some of us know Islington very
well.
Page. I have forgot the name.
Sir R. Barker. It was Aldram Milver's
daughter. ,
X. C. J. It was about that time in May that
you saw him ?
^ Page. I did upon my oath, and^I spoke with
him, and took much notice of him, ne had an
old black hat on, that flapped, and a pair of
Spanish-leather shoes.
Sir O. Levms. Call air Richard Barker.
Who was sworn.
L. C J. Do you know Dr. Oates?
Sir R. Barker. Yes, my lord, I have known
his father and him ever since be hath been •
child ; I saw him the last summer.
X. C. J. About what time?
Sir R. Barker. At that time that tbey bare
given in evidence, I have only this to say, I waa
abroad, as my business leads me often abroad
into the country, but they told me, Mr. Oates
came to my house in a disguise, and that they
believed lie was turned either Quaker or Papist.
L. C. J. When was this ?
Sir R. Barker. lx was, my lord, to the beat
of my remembrance, after Whitsuntide that
they told me, but they told me a story of him,
how that he was in two several disguises, the
one was a short hair, and then they thought he
was turned Quaker, another time he bad a song
periwig, and then they thought be was turned
Papist ; and the first that told me, was this fel-
low here, that is a coachman of mine, who was
mending something of his coach. It happened,
my lord, upon the visiting of a gentleman, that
I was very ill, in which time Mr. Oates was
gone, and afterwards, when I was recovered
again, he came to my house, to enquire coo*
cerniiis Dr. Tongue.
X. C. J. When did you see him first ?
Sir R. Barker. It was, my lord, to the best
of. my remembrance, the latter end of Jane, or
beginning of July, upon, my recovery.
X. C. 7. By the oath that you have tjaken, I
would ask you one question, Did not you see
him till June?
Sir R. Barker. No, my lord ; but my ser-
vants told me, they bad seen him m May, be-
fore Whitsuntide.
L. C. /. Did you see him in June ?
Sir R. Barker. To the best of my remetn*
usance, it was in Jane.
Then one Butler was sworn.
L. C. J. Coma, do you know Dr. Oates ?
Butler. Yes, very well.
L. C. J. How long have you known him ?
Butler. I have known bun these 3 years, be-
fore he went beyond sea.
X. C. X Come, you are upon your oath,
when did you see Dr. Oates, and where, the
beginning of last summer?
Butler. I saw him the beginning of last May,
at my master's house in Barbican.
X. C. X Upon what occasion ? What are yon ?
Butler. I am sir Richard Barker's coach*
man. And I was making clean my coach in
the Gate-bouse, and in comes Dr. Oates, in
May lost was a twelvemonth, the beginning of
May ; with his hair cut off close cropt to bin
ears, in gray clothes, a gray coat like a shep-
herd's coat, a Yorkshire-gray ; he asked me
whether Dr. Tongue was within ? I told him»
no : nevertheless he went into the house, and
immediately came out again, and seemed to be>
very much discontented, but said nothing at all
to me, but passed by me, and went away.
r
>
«l] STATE TUALS, » C«»u» U. I «7»—«*rf «hm,for Hig\ Trax**. (*»
JLC./. And did you know him at that
he spoke to you first ?
Sailer. Yes, my lord, because I knew him
three Jears before.
L. C.J. Conld you have then called him by
his sane ?
Batter. Yes, my lord, I could.
L. C /. You say he came to enquire lor
Dr. Tonga?, and was discontented that he
conld not see him ?
Butler. Me said nothing to me when became
oat, but pasted away as one thai; was troubled.
X. C. J. Did yeu see him afterwards ?
Bailer, fpx weeks after I saw him \ and then
he had a Ions; black coat and a periwig on.
L. C /. But are you sure it was the same
Butler. I am, upon my oath.
Justice4 Dolben. Did you tell your matter of
his being there the first time ?
Butter. I did tell sir Richard Barker of him,
at soon as I saw him.
JL C. J. Sir Richard, how soon did he tell
you Oates was first there ?
Sir it. Barker. It was soon after, ray lord.
X. C. J. Was h in May that he told you he
had seen' him ?
Sir R. Barker. He told me as soon as ever I
came home, in May, as I remember.
X. C. J. Did he tcH you Mr. Oates was there
byname ?
Sir R. Barker. Yes, my lord, he did : and
when he told me what habit he was in, I won-
dered at it.
Oates There are several, my lord, that did
see me at that time ; but they are gone into
the country; and I cannot have them now
ready -. if you piease now to call Mr. Smidi the
schoolmaster of Islington. Who waa sworn.
Sir O. Levins. Do you know 1}r. Oates ?
Smith. Yes, very well.
Sir Cr. Levim. Pray, Sir, how long have you
known htm.
Smith. He was my scholar at MerchantrTay.
br* school, where I was usher.
Sir Cr. Levins. When did you see him, the
Btgmmng of last summer ?
Smith. I saw him in the beginning of last
May, that is, 1678.
L. C. J. Where did you see him ?
Smitk. , He dined with me at my house ia Is-
aajjtou.
Justice Dolbe*. What, the boya at St.
Omen now are gone ?
JL C. J. Recollect yourself well: by the
eathyoa have taken, did Dr. Oates in May was
twesre-montb dine with you ?
Smilk. Yes, my lord, he did ; and it was the
4rst Monday in May, as I remember.
Justice Dolben. And this yon swear, directly
sad positively I
8mith. Yes, my lord, I do.
L: C.J. How long did he stay there ?
Serif*. He staid three or four hours after :
sad, may it please you, my lord, he was in a
aaamer-suit, and a coloured ribbon, a green
knot upon his shoulder.
Tou Til.
IL.C. J. What did yon dfecoane*hout ?
Smith. About his twine; in Spain and Flan*
ders, and his travels.
X. C. J. Had you a long discourse with him t
Smith. Yes, I had.
X. C. J Had you nothing about the times?
Smith. No, my lord, not a word.
L. C. J, Did you understand he had been
turned Roman Catholic?
Smith. I did know it.
Jury. My lord, Did Mr. Smith see him any
other time after that ?
Smith. No, my lord, not in two month* ; to
my remembrance, about the middle of August.
Sir Cr. Levins. Call one Clay. Who was
sworn.
X. C. J. Do you know Dr. Oates ?
Clay. Yes, my lord, I do.
L. C. J. How long have you known him ?
' Clay. Ever since April last was twelve-
month. n
X. Cr JT. Was that the first time of your ac*
quaintance with him f i
Clay. Yes, at Mr. Charles Howard's.
X. C J. Where were you there with him ?
Clay. He lived in one corner of Old Arundel
House.
X. C. J. How came you acquainted with
him?
Clay. Truly I met him accidentally, at Mr.
Howard's house.
X. C. J. How came you to come there ?
Clay. I was there to visit Mr, Howard, as a
friend.
X C. J. Were you acquainted with him ?
Clay. Yes, I was with Mr. Howard, and
there I saw Dr. Oates.
X. C. J. When did you see him the second
time?
Clay: The second time I think I saw him
there too.
X. C. J. When was that ?
Clay. That was in May.
X. C. J. North. How long was that after ?
Clay. I think the other was in April. .
X. C. J. And did you. see him in May ?
Clay. I saw him in May too.
X. 6. J. What time of the month was it t
Clay. I cannot exactly speak to that, but it
was in that month as I remember, I am morally
certain of it. *
X. C J. And when did you see him after
Mar ? f
Clay. I can't tell whether I saw him after
May or not,
X. C J. . Is that the same roan that you saw
at Mr. Howard's, either in April or May?
Clay*. Yes, my lord, it is the same man.
Sir Cr. Levins. Then -we nave done with our
Evidence,
L. C.J. Come, gentlemen, now what cau
you say to this ? they have given you; now their
hall Charge.
Oates. My lord, I have one thing more, 1
desire'jfour lordship to take notice, this gentle-
man, Mt. Clay, is a priest in orders, as they
say. *
0D
400] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles B. WW—TriultfTkm** WKttbt*ai> [W4
L. C. J. North. Now the Evidence it con-
cluded, say what you will for yourselves ; smeV
then we will observe what you object, upon our
direction to the Jury, according to our coa-
science**
Gavan. My lord, then I say this for myself.
We commit ourselves to God Almighty. We
must compare the number, though oora were
not sworn, yet there were sixteen of ihemv
boys, voung men, that conversed with him
every ofay, and these witnesses speak but of one
or two particular days : One says he dined with
htm, and another saw him in a disguise ; but,
my lord, in these very witnesses there is an ap-
parent contradiction, because out of hie own.
mouth (ex ore tuo te judico) they are contra-
dicted. He says he came over upon Sunday^
witb Hilsley, which was the 20th of April, at f
think, and staid here only a matter of six days.
One oT the witnesses says he saw bini the first
Monday in May. What signify the witnesses,
tfcoug'i upon bath, that they saw him in May t
How can he come over the 20th of AfriL and
stay but six days, and be seen here in May I
Before these can be reconciled, one of then
must be false ; and then, my lord, besides that
which t first said, there is the number of wit-
nesses, they are nothine in comparison with
the number of ours. And then, my lord, se-
condly, if we should grant, that a lesser number
should serve the turn, because they are sworn
for the king, because they swear lor the safety
of the king, (whom God preserve, Whatsoever
becomes of roe) and the other speak not upon
their oaths, yet, my lord, this does not destroy
nor touch at all that evidence that is brought
against him, about the rector of Liege, sir John*
Warner and sir Thomas Preston. And though,
it be granted, that all the others that,epoka
about Mr. Oates being at St. Omen be mis-
taken, and must not be believed, yet we hare
him still, bv those six others, who have proved
that he hath sworn false ; and I hone we sheik
have fair play in the law, to make the best de-
fence we can for our lives ; and I humbly con-
ceive, nobody must be convicted of High Trea-
son by the law, but upon the evidence of two*
sufficient witnesses. Now I leave it to the con*
science and honour of the court, whether Jt»
shall be believed and counted a sufficient wit-
ness, when there are so many that have proved
him false in that one point ? and then, besides
all this, my lord, we have here sixteen, at least,.
Staffordshire witnesses, who give you an ac-
count of. Mr. Ireland's being out of London*
from the 3rd of August till the 14th of Septem-
ber ; so that in these two things be hath been*
contradicted without any answer, for be sayv
the 12 tli of August he was with him, when they
say he was in Staffordshire.
L. C X You have forgot tbe maid that ae.tr
him is* London the 12th or 13th. .
Gavan. No my lord, I have not. And tbi*
is it I answer to it, she is a witness that only"
'says, she just saw him, but did not speak te>
him.
X. C. J. She made a curtsey te bin*
JLG. Jn I will not ask him tbatfueatioe, but,
Mr* Clay, .are you a Capiat?
C/ey. Yes, my lord, I am so.
L. C. J. North. Come, whet say you now,
Mr. Wbitebread, to this ?
- Whitehead. I have this to say ; first, That
at my last trial, when I pressed him to declare
who had seen him, when he said he was«here in
town, he could name nobody, not one. I know
afterwards he was examined at tbe Committee,
and then he could name nobody neither, tie
amid he was there privately at Mr. GroveV, and
we can prove that he never did lie there in 4iis
life. And then be said absolutely, he had no;
seen much company, he staid but six days.
Now this good t>octor does 3ay that he saw him
here in the latter end of March, or the -middle
of April, whereas he himself says he oame over
w>h Hilsley, the 94th of April.
%. C. J. He was landed here April the lfch,
and the witnesses say, ft was the latter end of
April or beginning of May.
Whitcbreod. Mr. Oates expressly said, lie
staid here but sk days, when be came over to
the Consult.
Z. C. /. Why, does not ail this stand toge-
ther?
Whitcbrcad. No, my lord, how coelcl this
stand together ? his coming over the 17 th, and
Us being here a great part in May, whereas -be
says he was but six days ?
L. C. J, Perchance Dr. Oates may not be
precise enough ; but look you here, these wit-
nesses do not speak so exactly to a day or two,
or three, or four, or five, but to the letter end
of April : new, why might they not see him the
latter end of April and the beginning of May,
and yet stand very well withTVIr. Oatesfe testi-
mony, who says he was landed here about the
}7tb of April, and* staid here about sk or seven
slays ? How nice would you have them be in
that ease ? which, because they are honest, they
will not be.
X. C. J. North. You make your defences
to depend upon an uncertainty of time, which
no mortal man can ever remember ; besides,
pray observe this, That Mr. Oates stands a
goad witness, till you impeach him by a fry out
5f your own schools, ana they go to the whole
months of June, and April, and May; now
these all speak in contradiction to other wit-
nesses, and so Mr. Oates is still an upright and
good witness.
. . Whitcbrcad. They say they did see him there
every day, or every other day.
L. C: J. But sure I can as well teU, who
saw him but once in such, a month, and dined
with him then, as any that saw him never so
often : but here are five witnesses upon you in
this.poiot.
Whitcbreod. Tbe one was told by his man,
the other by his boy.
L. C. J. The coachman, and the boy, and
the maid, and Mr. Smith did see him.
Justice PcmUrton. The divine did see him,
and went and told the woman that he bed seen
llim, pray remember that.
iOSJ STATS TRIALS, *t Cukwi^ U, ICT^—emi o***ffir tSghlbnxm. [40ft
(taat*. Wo are now talking of acting Ire-
land ia August, and we pro** by sir John
Seattboettemd aii Us family, who any they be*
gao tbetj journey with him the 5th of August,
and staid with hint till tbe 19th, after the par-
ticular day the* she speeka of, yeu find seven or
ajjgatof them swear that they «aw bit* all the
mme. And therefor* I wenkd few know, whe-
ther poor mens' live* sbail im east away upon
ateh evidence as this? and tben, my kid, for
tba ether thing, I hope I smt e made a very food
plea far myself concerning the matter of Jury ;
my witnesses couW ba positive as to the last
week, but for tbe other weeks, though they
cased not be positive, (hay rather believed I
was there, than acts $ut whea it is urged,
Wby might not tbay gives* good a testimony
air tire former weeks as for the* t To tbis I an-
swer fully, tbat tbare is a great and predoaii-
aant reason wby tbey should have a particular
meson so swear, wby I should bo tbere tbe last
week, rather than. the oibat weeks, because X
waa the* abut up io tbe spiritual eeereise, and
tbay bad a particular reason to take aotice of
mat. Than, my lord, I hope you will be
pleaerd to mind this, by which J have made
my plea good, tbat is, my lord, that Mr. Gates'*
testimony against me is tbis, Mr. Ashby came
ta town about tbe middle of July, and tbat he
staid tbera about a fortnight, and tbat in the
dose of tbat fortnight I came to town, and said
I would go *fe Father Ashby, and had that dis-
coorae be sneaks of; and so much for that.
And then, my Iordr I beseech you still to bear
it ia your mind, that I have bean proved pot to
ba ia tow<c at tbe time of Mm great Consult
about tba Plot ; and indeed I was not capable
ef it, for I was not then professed, and there
could pone be of that congregation about the
plot, but those that were professed. X could
net be there in the congregation, hy reason of
my ago. Mr. Harcourt here, and the rest, if
you will ask them, will tall you it, they were
thtre, but, upon tba word of a dying man, I was
net thane.
£. C /> It is not positively said by Mr. Oatea
tbat you were.
£**»«. Bat than, my lord, be says my name
was to it, which he saw in July ; now I prove,
tbat I waj iu Staffordshire the last week of
Jaky ; and seeing I have witnesses to prove,
tbst I waa (hero W tba 14th, and the last week,
eaiit waa ajter tba Ifeb tbat be saw me, I
btpr aty pjen if good. Then, my lord, I ground
my plea upon this, I have studied philosophy
aed ether things, but I never studied the law,
aad so a>m ws*y ignorant of it ; but thia is my
ease, I em> accused by one witness concerning
ana race, and by another concerning another ;
tba one) goajuuiturd hero at London, tba other in
glefis*tjabife; I deewe, therefore, to know,
whether too witness that swears the thing done
ia Staffordshire, and tba other witness, tbat
sweat* what waa dona 14 todou, can be es-
teemed tiro sriuamaoeA acwosdiog to tba law, to
eeoviet mo oi tregeen }
La/.Jsr<i Y#Hl«4Utellyousifitwef0
a mattes of oWU, it might be found eeoeojatyy,
aad hoajmaasV but it is a matter that bath been,
already reeolvad in tba case of sir Henry Vang
at llie King'a-beech bar/ who was indicted for
levying of war against tbe king ; and there one
witness proved tba levying war in one ceonty»
and the other proved the leaping of war in,
another county ; and so, though tbey were* but
singie witnesses ef single facts, yet being botbv
came up to the Indictment, they wereasfyodgee)
sufficient to maintain -it* $o it is ia your case,
here is one witness for the proving yoof hand
to tbe paper which was for the murder of tbe
king, and thereat aaether witness of your dig*
coarse to the same purpose ; tbe fact is your-
joining and conspiring to destroy the kjeg, on*
to levy war against him, and both these are
proved to the fell of tba indictment by theft,
witneasas ; and though tbay are to several paj>»
ticular facts, yet tbey are all overt aets of tba).
saute treason.
4?eeoa. My lord, I have a contrary opinio*
to that ia seijeant JlolU.
JL C. J. JNerre. But this is a bnqwn caae,
and tho law is settled therein,
JU C i. X will tell you what, you mistake is*
what you say, for tbero ftre two witnesses^
Oaies and Dugdale, who swear to the sama
fact, which is killing tbe king, altering the go-
vernment, and bringing in popery : Gates pay*
he saw your hand to the consult, for tbe mordet
of the king, for the raising of the army, and far
the introducing of popery, which is a necessary
consequence of change of government ; Pug-
dale says he was with you in the parloar of my
lord Aston-'*, where the discourse was between
him and you, and others, about killing the king
and altering religion. Are pot these two uW
nesees to one and the same treason?
Craoan. No, my lord, I conceive not.
X. C. J. If I consult a way to kill the king'
here, and then I go into tba country, and there
I coosuit of it with another person, are aofe
these two witnesses to the same treason ? *ur«
tbey are..
0<wm« Then, my lord, my second plea ia
,tbjs, If there be two witnesses, you wilt grant
me this ground, tbat no man must be convicted
but upon tho evidence of two legal and
credible witnesses, and upon clear evidence, a*
the statute since his majesty's happy resforsy*
tiea does declare. Now two things are requir-
ed certainly to make a credible witness, and a
clear evidence ; aa the witness most be credible,
so it it as agreeable to reason tbat the evidence
must be plain and clear, yea, as clear as the
light of the sun at mid-day. Now, therefore, if
1 prove, that neither the witness ia credible,
snob as tba law requires, nor tbe evidence
clear, such as tbe law looks upon as such, them
I ought not to be convicted by tbis witness upoo
tbis evidence.
£. C. J. The jury are judges of that, and
therefore there I leave it.
•a ,n
* See tbe fourth Resolution io bis Case and
| the Note there, enJr, veL 6, p. 183.
4071 STATE TRIALS, SI Cbailbs IL 10»— IHatqf Thomas WKtetetd, [40*
L. C. /. North. Yoa argue might y subtfely,
but I wiH five yoa thk answer } there antst be
two lawful wi messes, that is the law ; a man
cannot be impeached of treason bat by two
lawful witnesses ; now if they be not convicted
of perjury, and their testimony be not taken
away, but they may be beard in a court of
justice, they are lawful witnesses; now for their
being credible witnessses, that is a matter that
U left to the jury, hut we muse receive them as
(awful witnesses till they be convict of a crime
that takes away their testimony.
Gavan. Therefore because, they are left to
the jury I an satisfied, and I turn myself to yon,
gentlemen. You are to sit upon my life and
toy death : as for my own part, I can truly pro-
fess I am as innocent esjhe child unborn, and
this gentleman Mr.'Whitebread knows I was
■ot capable of being at the consult, being not
of age. Now I must leave myself to the jury,
and will leave it to their judgments whether
these two witnesses can be esteemed credible
witnesses; for to make credible witnesses there
is required honesty of life, and truth in their
testimony, for no man can be a good witness
that is opt an honest man, nor. that hath car-
ried himself so that be is not to be be l<e>ed.
As to the*honesly of Mr. Oates*s life, you'heard
that he was disgusted by the Jesuits, esteemed
not a person of that diligence or fidelity to
be intrusted by them ; he was turned out of St.
Omen.
L. C. / Does that prove any dishonesty in
Mr. Oates ?
Gavan. No, but I speak to his credibility.
X. C. J. Speak plain ; how does it impeach
Mr. Oates's evidence, that the Jesuits did uot
like him ?
Gavan. It might be a ground of hatred and
malice in him against them ; and then, gentle-
men, I desire you to consider that other thing,
That we have proved him to speak false in bis
testimony about sir John Warner and sir Tho-
mas Preston ; and all the business of tl.e 19th
of August, concerning Mr. Ireland's being here
the 1 2th of August, who by 16 witnesses, is
proved to have been all the while in Stafford-
shire: and though he vms not convicted of
perjury before, which might have easily been
.done, as I have shewn- to the whole world
now? I appeal to the honour ^and conscience ef
the jury, whether all these proofs ought not to
make this witness to be deemed an incredible
witness. And pray, gentlemen, hear me this,
and carry this away * ith you, as to the business
of Ireland, bttween the 8th and 13th of Au-
gust, how many do swear that he was in Stafford*
shire. I desire you but to compare that one
woman that only saw him, aud made a curtsey
to him, as she say*, with those 16 witnesses
that conversed w ith him daily. Then as f -r the
second re&timony of the St. Omen witnesses,
which y m see is thwarted by tome that do swear
in the king's name to the contrary: Still 1 de-
sire you to compare number w ith number : The
others, though they do not swear, are ready to
•wear, and there are only three or four against
stiteea of them, and thane is an evident
tradition in what they say, and that proved oat
of ms4>wn month; /or he says ha came over
the 20th of April with Mr. Hibley, and staitf
only six days; they say ha was here in May,
and I desire these may be compared : for haws*
could it he that he should be here ut May, if hat
staid but sis. days? And then to make your
verdict, and take their credit away, 1 would da-
sire you to consider those witnesses that I havav
brought for myself, not being here, but in Was*
verhampton ; for being in Staffordshire as long
as to the last week of July, it mast rail within
the time of bis testimony. 1 have brought wit-
nesses to prove upon oath, that from the SSd
upward they saw me in Wolverhampton, and
they do remember the particular instance that
I was then at my spiritual exercise : and this te
that I have to say as to Mr. Oates. As for
Mr. Dugdale, I would desire yoa to reflect
upon the whole story of his coming to, discover
this plot, and his being an informer about k.
The truth is, I confess I have known htm fore
or six years, whitst be lived at my lord Anton's,
and I have divers times discoursed with hies
there at Mr. Ewers's chamber ; but, as 1 hope
to be saved, never any thing of treason- in all
my life. Now, it is well known, and there are
th<*e that can testify it, that in good troth Diss**
dale run away front my lord Aston's after be had
lost 300/. of my lord's money.
JL C. J. If you can say any thing against
Mr. Dugdale by witnesses that yoa can prove
it, then you say well ; but if you will tell a story
out of one Lord's mouth, and another Lord*
mouth, that is never to be endured $ von shall
never take away a man's testimony by hew-etryy
you must prove it.
Grant. It is well known, if I prove Dugdale
no credible witness, I play my own game. Yom
know i have been a prisoner twenty weeks, and
could not seek out witnesses. I asked it aa
soon as I knew of my trial, bat it was denied
me to send for witnesses to prove thai J>ogdaie>
was in ga<>! for debt. If I had the Recorder's
Warrant or the authority of this bench, I couid
send for them.
L. C. J. Yon must not fall upon persaaa
without evidence ; if yoa have witnesses to
prove any thing,' whom the jury will believe,
call them.
Gavan. I do assure your lordship, as I hope
to see the faoe of God, I am innocent of what
is charged upon' me. And God bless the king
and this honourable court.
L. C.J. Though y«u do an hundred Hasea
bless rhe king and court and all, yoa must prove)
things if you will be believed. What say yoau
Mr. Whkcbread ?
Whitebread. My Lord, I have hat oae tbssnj
to say, and it is but a wordt Your lordship wee
pleased to make an observation, and a gooaV
one it was, a letter which Mr. Dugdale saye
was written by me to Mr. Ewers, which heseye
he intercepted » he was, in the mean timet as
trusty correspondent for bis friend, lo then*
letter ha swears, there was eapressly eutttetactl
4
«0] STATE TRIAI^ Bl €mA«i It im*uMl^Arft,/»f 13%* fr****: [4t*
of eiiteminiog persons to hut
the king, chat only eucb at wane hardy despe-
rate and stent; be* as yow lordship well 00-
served, that K was an improbable thin* that a
man wbo had ms wits about- him should write
sack plain expression* about such a matter;
smd upon that improbability 1 leave it to the
Jury.
Justice Ftmkutcn. Hare yon anything to
say, Mr. Feuwiek ?
Joassirav 1 desire* my Lord, yoor lordship
and the Jnry to consider and observe the nature
both of omr witnesses, *»d of tbem that are
broogbt Ǥunst vs. The one speak for the
whose rime, that they saw him every day, or
every other-day ; they dairy conversed with him*
eat and drank with him id the same house ; the
enter** they say only, they saw him in one par*
tieaiar day ; another another ; and one of them
says he saw him, bat in a disguise. Now, my
lard, whether it be likely that so many innocent
csddren, brought up m a food virtuous hie,
should come here to forswear themselves, to
cantradiet people that we know not what they
are; and then, besides, we know that these
people are of a poor, roeao<!beggarly, condition,
thai intend to mend that condition hv- such a
pretence of discovery, and hope thereby to ad-
vance themselves. It ia probable *nch people
aught be drawn in. Then also we shall- prove
that sir John Warfter did not come ov«r with
bun, nor Air. Williams nor sir Thomas Preston :
Taeo all bis witness as to them is felse, and he
does not say be went back with these people ;
and this for the witnesses. Now suppose the
witness* j were all equal; what does be prove
stains* us three ? Or what- reason doth he pre
at his evidence? He says he saw soch nod such
letters from Mr. Wbitehread. Now is it pos-
sible the* a man that had no credit at all with
nx>ttmt lwe snook! be sue h fool* as to trust hhu
with such betters as those, then voor lordships
t-huAg'Us- twice, once for fttofs, and then fin*
Or is it possible that we should be
egregious fools that we should trust a
that wjss never esteemed of ; was expelled
the coHesje? And for all his talk of Commissions
aaaV Letters, there is not one of those found ;
let him shew any on* eommissinn; any money
paid, or any order brought him, or any aims
that were found ; there are three ounrters of
a year now passed* since the first discovery ;
cettamly all this time could produce something :
of letters have been taken from us,
> of those letters would have discovered this
,; eerssdnly therefore we have better evi-
e than be hash, supposing them to be equal
unto credibility in their original. Is it credible
we should be so great rogues to contrive the
ksns/s death ? Tltoeeh he speaks of the writing
heme xsn-ried from chamber to chamber con-
crrnjng rJnn matter,' he can never produce one
neperssgned by any one man's hand, nor can
ha produce any thing la attest hit testimony,
(leave this to y*or lordship's judgment whether
nu* evidence he good) there is notching appears
mm ttueh time, of nny drosi thai h produced :
where wee* the armies f Where were the mo-
neys peidf Where the comanissiurifl ? Is it pos*
state such nuhing should be* and no sign of It
for* whose year almost f There is no reason
brought, amongst ihem ah\ hut saying ami
swearing, and that I wsH stand by.
WkiMknU. I thank God I don't look like A
fighting, men, nor I never did ; hut wbo can
think that 1 should be so mad, when I had
committed such n secret to him, to beat him as
he says? It is strange that seen a plot should
be discovered wherein so many persons of qua-
lity, honour and reputation, are said to oe con*
cerned, and yet no footsteps of it appear ? and
hone of them, as my lord Arundel, my lord
Bettesie, should never divulge such a plot ; I
would sain know whether such a thing be pro*
bable, but I commend myself to God Almighty,
and the Jury.
Harcmtrt. My Lord, I have only this to say ;
I have lived to this age, which is 70 years, and
1 never knew any man that could say I was ac-
cused of the thing in the world, for which I
should be brought before any magistrate; and
it is strttnge that after so many years I should
come to be arraigned and condemned for a
crime of the highest nature; and there is no
reason brought against me nor any of the rest,'
for the proof of what is alleged, nor do they,
who are the witnesses against us, deserve at all
any credit. They only affirm such and such'
tbiugs without any reason, to persuade you to
believe them, and it is easy to wy, and so it is
to swear it. So that all I have to say is this,
since n negative cannot be proved, I hope in-
nocency will find some that shall defend it. I
leave myself to the Bench, for the law is the dcV>
fence of innocency. If they did bring any evi-
dence besdes that, which' is downright positive
swearinjf, without any reason orconcurrent rea-
son *o confirm it, it were something,
Fenwiek. And besides ailUbis, to think how
these men have lived before time is worth re-
ftVction and considering. As for Bedto*, he
hath been a very ill man, the world knows it.
L.C. J. Have you proved it f Can you shew
any record of it ?
just. Pemberton. Turner, have yon any thing
to say ? you have had your time. .
Fenmck. Yon will find that * Nemo repente
* fit nequisstmus/ No man arrives at the highest
degrees of impiety at first : Men grow extremely
wicked by degrees. But 'let us see if they can
blame our live*, or any thing that we have done
at any time before *, we prove, and all the world
knows what th*y have been, and bow scan*
dalously thev have lived,
Guvun. <Jur witnesses are to be regarded for
their number and for their innocency, especially
since they give no reason nor convincing argu-
ments for what they do affirm.
L. C. J. We would bear you, -and we have
beard you very long, hut h *mu*t not be per-
mitted you to go over the same thing* again and.
again.
L. C. B. Hath Turner any thing to sa y t
• Turner. AH that I have to say, my lord, is
41 1] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chablu I|. 1071,—
Wimmn Whiitbrcad, [41*
this, to ask whether it be reasonable that Bed-
Jour and Oates should be looked upon as good
witnesses, that these persons who have been
such scandalous people should be admitted to
an oath, who were debarred from the Sacra-
ment; for according to the Church of England,
no man that is publicly scandalous ceo be ad-
mitted to the Sacrament.
- L. C. J. But you prove nothing.
Turner. I can prove it 6rtt by evidence of
one Hastings.
L. C J. Call him. [But he appeared not.]
L. C. J. Gentlemen of the Jury ; Here hath
been a very long evidence, and a very confused
one ; and yon cannot expect, that it should be
wholly repeated to yon : For |t is almost im-
possible for any one to remeeaJuer it ; neither
would I if I could, because a great deal of it is
impertinent, and vainly to be repeated t And
besides, many things have been said over and
over again, to no purpose. But I will observe
to you, as well as I can, what Testimonies there
are against each particular man of tbem ; and
that f do look upon to be very mater ii,*. And
I leave it to you, to judge and cou&ider, bow
for the evidence is credible, and how fur it is
substantial.
Against Mr. Whiiebread, you have the Tea*
timooy of three, Oates, Dugdale, and fiedlow :
Against Mr. Fen wick, you have the Testimony
of Oates, Bedlow and Praunce : Against Har-
court, yoa have Oates, Dugdale, Bedlow, and
Praunce. Yon have) against Gavan, Dugdale
and Oates ; and against Turner, Dugdale and
Oates : bo that, to (be two last, you have two,
three to the two first, and four to Harcourt.
• Now, the matter that they nave sworn, hath
been all tending to one thing ; the murder of
the King,* the advancing of Popery, and sup-
pression of the Protestant religion : That it the
thing that all the evidence does drive at.
For Dugdale, for aught we can perceive, he
hath been upon the matter a stranger to Oates
and Bedlow; and I do aotfiud, that he had any
correspondence with, or knowledge of them,
at the time he charges Mr. Harcourt and Mr.
Gavan. And he charges them with the very
selfsame things, vis. the consulting the death
of the king, and advancement of popery; A nd
they have several instances of the sects, as their
several consultations ; how they met together,
and where, or at what place. And Dugdale
tails yon of a letter that he found ; wherein
Whiiebread gave charge for the entertammeot
of good stout fellows \ No matter for gentlemen,
so they were resolute. And so they have
several mediums to prove one and the same
thing.
Mr. Fenwick says to aU this, Her* is nothing
against us, but talking and swearing t fiat for
that, ha hath been told (if it were possible for
turn to learn) that all Testimony is but talking
and swearing: Far ail things, all mens Ikes
and fortunes, are determined by an oath } and
an oath is by talkiog, by kissing the book, and
sailing God to witness to the troth of what is
said. That is the essence of aa oath, and those
are the ceremonies t The kissing the book, and
speaking, is the accidental form ; the substance*
is, calling God to witness. Therefore what a
vaia thing is it in Mr. Fenwick t<> seem u>
triumph, by saying, There is nothing against'
us but talking and swearing. Them is nothing
against them, but evidence and proof of seen
upon oaths And their reasons, the truth is, axe
very trifles. They defend their lives as they do
their religion, with weak arguments, and Mla-
cious reasons.
For that long business, that Mr. Gavan hath,
undertaken to say against Mr. Oates, and what
they all insist upon, viz. the number of their
witnesses, which weresiiteen, amounts to this*
to disprove Mr. Oates that it could not be true,
what he says, That he should be present here
at a consult, the 34th of April, because they
have brought 16 from St; Omers to prove,
That he was there all April and May.
It is very true now, if that be so, it is ioK
possible Oates can swear any truth : hut who*,
tber that is to be believed, or no, is the ques-
tion. Methinks they did not do well for these*
selves, when they bid you remember the na-
lure of the evidence. They did well enough to
bid you remember the number : For the nam*
ber is more than what Oates is backed with oa
the other side; but the nature is of much leas
weight : Not only because they are not upon
their oaths, for by law they may not be upoej
Ledoa
their oaths (and that must not be charge
them as a- defect, seeing they would swear, I
doubt not, if they might ;) but because their
Testimony is really to be believed much alike
without an oath, as with one; because they are
of a religion that can dispense with oaths,
though false, for the take of a good cause.
But, seeing they desire the nature of the
men may be considered, you are to observe,
that they are proselytes, and young striplings of
their church ; which does indeed, in one respect
or other, •abuse all her disciples, and keep*
them in a blind obedience, to pursue and efect
all her commands.
If the doctrines of that church was* better t
if such which .are allowed by their chief authors,
were hut less bloody and inhuman ; if tfeew
had ever put those that ant so, into aa lodes
Eipurgatohua, that they might have been pew*
licly disowned, and declared as the paitiouhur
opinions of some ill saee, which they did dise*
vow ; these men might have been thennjefm
worthy to be seeerded, Jsat when none of
their popes have done this (who must harm
ver v strange foreheads, i£ they say the* b**»)
and such doctrines are still owned, there ia
much indeed to-be observed from the natnreef
the evidence, the nature e/theinei^andtJieir
profession,
] must contest, I believe that tbty sroulsj
a their prmcipaes to be bloody or to be daw
i and allowed by any of their best a*j»
tbora,ifat this time die fear of apparent mjsv
hood did not deter them ; hut it to mardeje
kisjea. or to deacon them anainhsnlrr their enev>
^■^w^sapp ^^ ^^ anrw^rwawev wmbfwo^sp ^ansew usv^r^r^w r**% ^nwaewe sww* ^r
413J STATE TRIALS, SI Chablis II. 107*.-W others, for High Trtasmu [414
jecj* from their aUegiaoce, for the advancement
ef religion, We a iking most impious, and void of
iffigxin, and makes religion worse than nooe ;
which doctrine jet they have owned, a»d their
OMocils have owned, and we have proved it
ipsa then, and out of them ; I canuet tell
what to say to these men, or their testimoa y ;
the nature of whom .they desire to be consi-
dered.
Jtat they were joung hoys, sent for hither
on purpose to give this testimony; and it was
not, indeed, a lank in the prisoners at the bar,
to send for what evidence they could, fur them-
selves : hot it is very doubtful and suspicious,
to have such green and flexible minds thus em*
' ployed ; and \ must leave it to yoo, to consider
now far these young meo, trained in such prin-
ciples* may be prevailed on to speak what is
not true.
And now, if the king's evidence, after this,
4teod alone, it were yet something; but when
job have Mr. Oates" testimony, as to this great
natter of his appearing in April, confirmed by
seven or eight witnesses, that speak so ei-
presslj to it, how will they auswer it ! do they
Bake sir* Bichard Barker a person of no value?
do they so little esteem the*niiitiater,* that says I
knew ham though he was in disguise ; nod weot
sad said it presently to a woman that he knew
was acquainted with Oates ? and asking her,
when she saw Mr. Oates ? and she saying, not
tgreat while ; be said, I saw him later than
Jew ; and says, he did know him : and this is
eaafinaed stUl by sir Richard Barker, who
ten* yoo, that his men and him that he had
been there. What should make them to ac-
euamt their master so, if it were not to ? or do
yon think it a thing maliciously prepared or in- ,
Vested to take away the lives of these men,
that his men shoolsf tell him a story so long
ago f if it be not true, to what purpose should
they teH him so ? and if it be true, it con.
BKQS the matter sarom against them.
There is ha chat was his companion, the
Schoolmaster, that says, in the beginning of
May was twelvemonth, Mr. Oates dined with
aim at bis house* sat with -him four hours, dis-
csaised of bis travels into Spain and St. Omers,
sad there is the man that is a papist, if not a
priest, that swears he saw. him twice, about the
awddfte of April, at *\fr. Charles Howard^ lodg-
insjs in Arundel Qonae ; so that here are seveu
w u nam i %r direct ox circumstantial, to prove
Mr. Oates to have been in London, in April
and May:, 1678. ,
Bat say they, This is but talking and swear-
ing. Very fine J And JLhe St. Omers youths is
talking init not swearing, Aj ! But their their
aaatbens axe not so many. That, gentlemen,
I leave to yon, forhotb cannot be true. The
'Testimony <>£ Mr. Oates gaud the witnesses
that he had to hack, himself withal, and to
fanve himself to he here, is inconsistent with
•hat the young men say, that he ma at St.
'Jtew,if you observe^ *U these mens defence
is in the ciroumetaotial pact of the evidence, in
watching and catching at what day, what hoar
and what month ? How Mr. Oates reckoned
fukef so and so : if he came here about the SOtht
of April, how could they see him the 1st of
May; and they think then, they hare got such a-
mighty victory ; but it is not so weighty an ar-
gument with protestauts, after all their conceit,
that is unanswerable; for here is the point.
The matter of time is a thiog that no man can
so precisely charge his memory with, as- that.it
should be too strictly the measure of your judg-
ments about truth or falshood, by the mistake
of seven or eight days. Examine yourselves,
how often every day you do mistake things that
have been transacted half a year ago, and err
in point of time, taking one week for another,
and one month for another; and thoegh I
must say, it is considerable, yet too great weight
is not to belaid upon that.
As for that they insist upon so much, the
coming over of sir Thomas Preston and sir John
Warner, with Mr. Oates ; it is true, three or
four witnesses speak as to Sir John Warner,
and some to sir Thomas Preston ; and they
say, they were both beyond sea when Mr*
Oates came over, but if the sixteen he not to
be believed in the 6rst matter and if Mr. Oatc*
does say true, notwithstanding all their evi-
dence, ahat he was here such a time in April
and M»V| then I will tell you what inference
may naturally be ; to wit, That they cannot
want a witness to prove what they please t
.for I believe there is none of them all will
make any bones of it,
I say gentlemen, if you are satisfied in your
consciences, that the evidence on Mr. Oatee-
hia part, to that point (that is to say, seven wit-
nesses ought Xo prevail with yoo, to believe ha
was here in those months (notwithstanding,
the sixteen witnesses , who say they saw him-
every day beyond sea, in April and May), their -
other evidence about his coming over with
Preston and Warner will have no great weight*
because the other is the great matter, by which-
they make the substance of their defence.
lam glad indeed to see a gentleman here,,
whose face I never saw before, end that is-
Mr. Dugdale. Upon my word he hath escav
ped well, for I find little said against him, very
little either as to the matter or the manner of
his, Evidence. They would have made reflec-
tion on him for his poverty, hut I hope that
they, whose religion is to vow poacrty, wul
never insist on thai fur any great eJyectien
against any.
X. C. J. Jvorre. Your lordship hath forgot
that he said be gave away 3 or 400 pounds tor
them. * '
L. C, J. But I wUl^bsJlenge all the papists
in England, to satisfy any man that beam me
this day of one piece of evidence, which will
turn every proteetant's heart against (the papists*.
If so be they mnsdered sir Etdm uoebu ry God-
frey, the plot even by that, is in a great mea-
sure proved upon ;them by that weWsaawdec.
And what can. be a plainer proof of it, than *ha
evidence of this day, which Mr. I*egdaIeinro~
(
t 415] STATS TRIALS. 31 Ciuuu IL 1679.— Trial qf Thomai WkhArmi. (410
duces? We had notice, taith he, on Mon-
day night, that on the Saturday before it, sir
£. Godfrey w kilted ; (which falls oat to be
that verv Saturday he was first missing;) which
notice was given in a letter writ by Harcourt to
Ewers, another priest, that same Saturday night,
wherein were these worth,* This night sir E.
Godfrey is dispatched ;v and I am sure, if this
he trte, then no man can say, but tbey mur-
dered him.
Whitcbread. It is not alledged against any of
us.
L. C. X It is in evidence of the plot in ge-
neral, and to Harcourt in particular.
Harcourt. He never sliews the letter that he
says I writ.
L. C. X He says that he used to peruse the
letters, and that Ewers had this again, after be
bad pwrused it ; be says also he has received at
times, a hundred letters from you, and this
amohg the rest. Now the question it, Whether
it be true, or no ? To make it out,- he produces
Mr. Chetwyn, whom I hope you will not deny
to tye a gentleman of one of the best families of
his Country, and of honest reputation; who says,
That on the Tuesday following that Saturday
sir E. Godfrey was missed, he and another
were talking together in Staffordshire, and that
the other person asked him, If he knew of the
death of any justice of the peace at West-
minster ; and when he tohi him, he had heard
of no such thing ; No ; said be. that is strange,
you living sometimes about Westminster; for,
»aid be, The wench at the ataehouse «ays, That
tins morning Mr. Dugdale snid to two other
gentlemen, there was si justice of peace at
Westminster killed ; and Mr. Dugdale sweats,
that was sir E. Godfrey. Now, if Dugdale he
fit to he believed, that he saw such a letter, as
he must be if he be not a very great prophet,
to be able to foretel this ; or if the maid thnt
said this did not invent it (a thing then im-
possible to be done), or Mr. Chetwyn feigned
that he heard the man make his report from
the maid ; this thing could not come to pass,
but by these men; Nay, if Mr. Dugdale could
not do as great a miracle as any are in the
Popish Legends, how could he tell, that it was
done on tbe same night when it was done at
London? or speak of it on the Monday t.ight
after, when it was not known in London till
the Thursday following ? This will stick, I as-
sure you, sirs, upon all your party.
For my own part, this evidence of Mr. Dug-
dale's gives me the greatest satisfaction of any
thing in the world in this matter ; end whilst
we retjt satisfied in the murder of that man,
and are morally certaift you must do it, know-
ing of what principles you are, you cannot
blame us, if, upon such manifest leasons, we
lay it upon vou. .
And this is occasional evidence, which I , for
my part, never heard before this day ; nor can
I be more, or better satisfied, than I am upon
this point, vix. tbe testimony that I have re-
ceived this eiterooon, concerning the marder
of air JL Godfrey. As to the defences they
have made, they are exceptions in point of
time, bot do not affect Mr. Dugdale; for they
have hardly the confidence to deny the things
he says to be true against them.
They fall foul, indeed, upon Mr. Oates : He
appears to have i>een their agent ; and whilst
so, bad enough : bot if he had not had a minoT
to have become a good man, he would not
likely have done us that good thnt be hath)
done, in discovering the design you had en-
gnged him in. Let any man judge, by your
principles and practices, what you will not do
for the promoting of the same*
For while this gentleman's blood lies upon
you (and some have been executed for it), it
must be yet faither told you, that in what you
did do, you have given us a specimen of what
you would do. We have a testimony, that for
promoting your cause, you would not stick at
the Protestants blood. You began with sir E«
Godfrey, but who knows' where you would'
have made an end ! It was this one man yon
killed in his person, bat in effigy the whole
nation. It was in one man's blood your hands
are embrued ; but your souls were dint in the
blood of us all. This was a handsel only of
what was to follow ; and so long as we are
convinced you killed him, we cannot hot be-
lieve you would also kill tbe king. We cannot
but belie* e you would make all of us away that
stand in the way of your religion :' a religion'
which, according to what it is, vou would brine;
in upon us; by a conversion of us with blood;
and by a baptism wfeh fire. God keep our
land from the one, and our city from the
other !
To return : The Letter that is found in Har-
court's papers, does further confirm Mr. Oates
in all the great and considerable matters that
he says ; that there was a Plot ; that that plot
was called by tbe name of a Design, which was
to be kept clr*e and secret : and thi* is an evi-
dence that cannot lie; For that letter will
never be got off, no more than the other leuer,
that Mr. Dugdale speaks of about sir E. God-
frey.
And thus I leave it to you, gentlemen : Yost
have heard how many witnesses they have had
for them, about 24 or 95, of one sort or ano-
ther. You have heard what they apply their
testimony unto, to convict Mr. Oates of fake*
hood iu mutter of time ; which was their prin-
cipal defence: that he was not liere in April
and May, and that be came not over *ith sir
Thomas Pre* ton, and sir John Warner, and
that Ireland whs n >t here all August. Yon
nave Iteard what witnesses Oates is bucked
wttM, as to tbe time of bis being here: and
the maid says, she saw Ireland here in August.
However, though their defence depends bog
upon a point of time. T most tell you, it ought
to bt well constd«*f ed, f r it w indeed vc-ry coss-
sidenble towards their defence; and God for-
bid but we shoulil be eqti tl to aU nr.en.
And so I have remem* "red, as well as I ranj,
in this long and |»erplexed Evidence, that which
seems to me most material, as to their charg*
417) STATBTRIALS, SI Chaelis II. 1670
[419
erdi&chafge; and that which they have made
their greatest defence by the youths from St.
Omen, to disprove Mr. Oates his being here,
and Mr. Ireland's not being ie London in Anr
gnat, which in troth is not the proper business
ef this day, hot bath received a Former verdict
before; lor if so be the jury before had not
been satisfied of the truth of that, they could
■ever have found Ireland guilty. So I leave it
la yea epoa the whole matter. I can remember
nothing besides. Go together, and consider of
your verdict, according to your evidence.
L. C. J. North. Gentlemen, my lord hath
repeated it so fully to you, that I shall not need
to add any thing to it.
Then an officer was sworn to keep the Jury,
who withdrew ; and the judges also went off
from the bench, leaving Mr. Recorder, and a
competent number of commissioners there, to
take the verdict; and about the space of a
quarter of an hour, the jury returned, and an-
swered to their names, and gave in their ver-
dict thus:
CI. cfthe Cr. Gentlemen, are you all agreed
af your verdict?
bmnes. Yes.
CI. ef the Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omnet. Foreman.
CI. of the Cr.. Thomas White alias White-
bread, hold up thy band. You of the jury,
look upon the prisoner : How say you ? Is he
Guilty of the high-treason whereof be stands in-
Acted, or Not Guilty r
Foreman. Guilty.
CL of the Cr. What goods or chattels ?
Foreman. None, to our knowledge : [And
so severally of the rest.]
Which verdict being recorded, in usual form,
Mr. Recorder spoke to the Jury thus :
Gentlemen, you ef the Jury, There hath
been a long evidence given against the pri-
soners at the bar : tbey were all indicted, ar-
raigned, fairly tried, and fully heard for high-
treason, depending upon several circumstances.
They can none of them pretend to say (and I
take the liberty to take notice of it, for the sa-
tisfaction of them, and all that are here present,
and all the world), that not a person among
the prisoners at the bar were either wanting to
themselves to, offer, or the court to them to
hear any thing that they could say for them-
selves. But upon a long evidence, a full dis-
cussing the objections made against it, and a
patient hearing of the defence tbev made, they
are found guilty : and I do think, that every
honest man will say, that they are unexcep-
rionably found so ; and that it is a just verdict
you have gjven.
And then the Prisoners were carried back to
Newgate,* and the court adjourned till eight
next morning: when the coort proceeded to
the Trial of Richard Langhern.
* See the Account of their Sentence and
Execution at the end of the next Case.
853. The Trial of Richard Langhorn, esq, at the Old Bailey, for
High Treason: 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679*
UPON Saturday the 14th of June, 1679, at
the Sessions-house in the Old-Bailey, London,
the Coort, according to their adjournment the
preceding day, met, and proceeded to the trial
of Richard Langhorn, esq. in this manner :
CL of the Cr. Set Richard Langhorn to the
bar. Richard Langhorn, hold up thy hand :
(Which he did.) Thou standest indicted in
London by the name of Richard Langhorn, late
of London, esq.
u For that you Richard Langhorn the elder,
as a false traitor of the most illustrious, serene,
and excellent prince, Charles the second, by
the grace of God, king of England, Scotland,
.France, and Ireland, defender of the faith,
your supreme and natural lord, not having the
fear of God in your heart, nor weighing the
doty of your allegiance, but being moved and
seduced by the instigation of the devil, the
cordial love, and true, due, and natural obe-
dience, which true and faithful subjects of our
Mid sovereign lord the king, towards him do
and onght to bear, altogether withdrawing, and
deviling, and with all your strength, intending
* See the Trial of John Tasborough and
Anne Price in February 1680 infra.
▼ou vis.
the peace and common tranquillity of this
kingdom to disturb, and the true worship of
God within this kingdom used, and by law-
established, to overthrow, and sedition and re*
bell ion within this kingdom to stir up and pro-
cure, and the true love, duty and obedience,
which true and faithful subjects of our said
lord the king, towards him, do, and of right
ought to bear, to withdraw, relinquish, ond ex-
tinguish ; on the 30th day of September, in the
30th year of his majesty's reign, at London* in
the parish of St. Dunstan's hi the West, in the
ward of Farringdon without, Loudon, afore-
said, fulsly, maliciously, » subtilly, and traitor-
ously, with many other false traitors of our
sovereign lord the kinj? unknown, did purpose^
compass, imagine, intend, consult and ogree,
to stir up sedition and rebellion within this
kingdom of England, against our said sovereign
lord the king, and a miserable slaughter amongst
the subjects of our said lord the king, of his
kingdoms of England, to procure and cause,
and our said sovereign lord the king, from his
kingly state, title, power, and government of
his kingdom of England, totally to deprive, de-
pose, and disinherit, and our said sovereign
lord the king to death and final destruction 19)
2E
4 19] STATE TRIALS; 3 1 Charges II. \ 610. —Trial qf Richard Langhorn, [420
bring and pur, and the government of this king-
dom to subvert and change, and liie true wor-
ship of {Inid to this kingdom by law established
and used ta alter, and the state of this king-
dom in all the parts thereof well instituted,
totally to subvert and destroy, and war within
this kingdom of England to procure and levy,
and the- same most wicked treasons, traitorous
imaginations, purposes, compassings, and agree-'
ments aforesaid, and to perfect and fulfil: you
the said Richard Langhorn afterwards, to wit,
the 30th day of September, in the 30th year
aforesaid, and divers other times before, at
London, &c. falsly, advisedly, maliciously, sub-
tilly, and traiterously, did compass, contrive,
and write two letters, to be sent to certain per-
sons unknown at Rome, and at St. Omers, in
parts beyond the seas, to procure the ad-
herence, aid and assistance of the pope, and
of the French king, and others, to you the said
Richard Langhorn, and other false traitors un-
known, the true worship of God within this
kingdom of England, by law established and
used, to the superstition of the Churcfy of
Rome to alter, and the government of this
kingdom of England to subvert, and our said
sovereign lord the king to death and final de-
struction to bring and put ; and that you the
said Richard Langhorn, in further prosecution
of the said treason, traitorous imaginations, in-
tentions, and agreements aforesaid, on the day
and year aforesaid, and the said other days and
times before at London, &c. did compass, con-
trive, and write, two other Letters to be sent to
Rome, in parts beyond the seas, to one Chris-
topher Anderton, then rector at the English
college at Rome aforesaid, and two other letters
to be sent to St. Omers, in parts beyond the
seas, to diverse persons unknown there resid-
ing, and by the said respective letters trai-
torously you did advise the said pope, and
Christopher Anderton, and other persons un-
known residing beyond the seas, of the ways
and manner to be taken for accomplishing the
said most wicked treasons, for altering the true
worship of God in this kingdom established and
used, to the superstition of the Church of
Rome, and for subverting the government of
this kingdom, and for the death and destruc-
tion of our said lord the king, and to the in-
tent that the said Christopher Anderton, and
Others unknown, should give their aid, assist-
ance, and adherence, and should procure other
aid, assistance, and adherence, to you the said
Richard Langhorn, and other false traitors un-
known, to alter the true worship of God afore-
said, to the superstition of the Church of
Rome, and to subvert the government of this
kingdom of England, and to put our said sove-
reign lord the king to death ; and that you the
said Richard Langhorn afterwards, to wit, the
day and year aforesaid, at London, &c. traitor-
ously did deliver the letters aforesaid, to be
sent to the said Christopher Anderton, and
others, persons beyond the seas, to perfect the
traitorous purposes aforesaid; and that you
tbe^said Richard Langhorn, further to fulfil
and accomplish the same most wicked trea-
sons, traitorous purposes, and the same most
wicked treasons, traitorous imaginations, pur-
poses, and compassing* aforesaid, afterwards
the said 30th day of September, in the 30th
year aforesaid, at London, &c. five commissions
m writing, made by authority derived from the
See of Rome, for constituting military officers,
for leading the forces to be levied in this king-
dom against our said sovereign lord the king,
for the altering the Protestant reformed rein
gion to the use and superstition of the. Church
of Romp, and for subverting the government
of this kingdom of England traitorously you did
receive, and five other commissions in writing,
made by authority derived from the See of
Rome, for constituting civil officers for govern-
ing this kingdom after the most wicked trea-
sons and traitorous imaginations, purposes and
com passings aforesaid were fulfilled and ac-
complished, then and there traiterously you did
receive. And that you the said Langhorn,
afterwards, to wit, the day and year aforesaid,
at London, &c. the said several commissions
so received, to divers false traitors of our sore-
reign lord the king unknown, falsely, know-
ingly, and traitorously, did distribute, give and
dispose for constituting officers, as well mili-
tary as civil to the traitorous purposes afore-
said. And that you the said Richard Lang-
horn, afterwards, on the day and year afore-
said, at London, &c. a commission to consti-
tute and authorize you to be advocate-general
of the army, to be levied in this kingdom, to
war against our said sovereign lord the king,
falsely, traitorously, and against the duty of
your allegiance, from a certain person unknown,
did receive and had ; and the same commission
then and there falsely, advisedly, and traitor-
ously, did inspect and read, and in your cus-
tody keep ; and to the same commission trai-
torously did give your consent, to the intent
that you the said Richard Langhorn should
have and execute the place and office of advo-
cate-gen end of the army aforesaid, after the
army aforesaid should be raised against our
said sovereign lord the king, by you the said
Richard Langhorn, and other false traitors un-
known, in execution of the said traitorous corn-
passings, imaginations, and agreements afore-
said. And thar whereas William Ireland, John
Grove, and Thomas Pickering, and other false
traitors of our sovereign lord the king unknown,
on the 24th day of April, in the 30th year
aforesaid, in the county of Middlesex, did con-
sult to bring and put our said sovereign lord
the king to death and final destruction, and to
change and alter religion in this kingdom of
England, rightly and by law established to the
superstition of the Church of Rome, at Lon-
don, &c. had notice of that consultation; and
the same consultation for the destruction of
the king, and for the alteration of religion in
this kingdom, rightly established, to the super-
stition of the Church of Rome, and the trea-
sonable agreements had in that consultation,
oo the said 30th day of September, in the SOtb
«I)
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— for High Treason..
[4St
year aforesaid, from our said sovereign lord
die king, advisedly and traitorously did conceal,
and to thai consultation traitorously you did
consent. And the said William Ireland, John
Grove, and Thomas Pickering, on the day and
year last aforesaid, at London*, the (reasons
aforesaid to perpetrate and perfect, maliciously,
sabtilly, and traitorously, you did abet, coun-
sel, maintain, and comfort. And that you i he
said Richard Langhorn, afterwards, to wit, the
said SOth day of September, in the 30th year
aforesaid, at London, ccc. falsely, subtilly, and
traiterously, you did move and solicit the Be-
nedictine monks (unknown) to expend and pay
the sum of 6,000/. to procure a person trai-
torously to kill and murder our said sovereign
k»rd the king. And whereas Edward Coleman,
and other false traitors of our said sovereign
lord the king unknown, on the 39th of Sep-
tember, in the 30th year aforesaid, in the county
of Middlesex, traitorously had conspired and
consulted to procure rebellion and sedition,
within this kingdom of England, against our
said sovereign lord the king, «md him from bjs
kingly state and government of this his king-
dom of England to deprive and disinherit, and
to bring and put him to final death and destruc-
tion, and the government of this kingdom of
England to alter, and the true religion in this
kingdom of England, by law established, to
alter and change. And whereas he the said
Edward Coleman had traitorously written four
letters to M. la Chaise, then counsellor of the
French king, to procure the aid, assistance,
and adherence of the French king, to perfect
and accomplish the traitorous imaginations
aforesaid, yon the said Richard "Langhorn after-
wards, to wit, the said 80th day of September,
is the 30th year aforesaid, at London, &c.
veil knowing the treasonable matters in the
tame letters contained,- to the same letters Hid
content, and then and there falsely, subtilly,
advisedly, maliciously, and traitorously, did
abet, counsel, maintain, and comfort the said
Edward Coleman, to perpetuate and accom-
plish the treason aforesaid, against the duty of
your allegiance, against the peace of our sove-
reign lord the king, his crown and dignity, and
against the form of the statute in this case made
tad provided."
CI. of the Cr. How sayest thou, Richard
Langhorn, art thou guilty of this High-treason
whereof thou standest indicted, or Not Guilty?
Langhorn. Not Guilty.
CI. of the Cr. Culprit how wilt thou he tried ?
Langhorn. By God and my country.
CI. of the Cr. God send thee a good deli-
verance.
Then the Petty Jury impannelled for this
Trial was' called, the prisoner put to his chal-
lenges, but challenging none, the twelve sworn
were these ? Arthur Yong, Edward Beeker, Ro-
sen Twyford, William Yapp, John Kirk man,
Peter Pickering, Thomas Barns, Francis Neeve,
John Hall, George Sitwell, James Wood and
Bichard Cawthorne.
After which, Proclamation for information
was made in the usual manner.
CI. of the Cr. Richard Langhorn, hold up
thy hand [Which he did]. ' You of the jury
look upon the prisoner, and hearken to his
cause : He stands indicted in London by the -
name of Richard Langhorn, late of Loudon,
esq. for that as a false traitor, &c. [put in the
Indictment mutatis mutandis] and against the
firm of the statute in that case made and pro-
vided. Upon this Indictment he hath been ar-
raigned, and thereunto hath pleaded Not
Guihy ; your charge is to enquire whether he
be guihy of the High-Treason whereof he stands
indicted, or Not Guilty. If you find him guilty,
then you are to enquire what goods or chattels,
lands or tenements, he bad at the time of the
High Treason committed, or at any time since.
If you find him Not Guilty, you shall enquire
whether he fled for it. If you find that he fled
for it, you are to enquire of his goods and chat-
tels, as if you had found him guilty. If you
find him Not Guihy, nor that he did fly for
it, say so and no more, and bear your evidence.
Then Roger Belwood, esq. of counsel for the .
king in this cause, opened the Indictment thus:
•
May it please your lordship, and you gentle-
men of the jury ; The prisoner at the bar, Mr.
Langhorn, stands indicted of High-Treason,
and it is for conspiring the murder of the king
and endeavouring an alteration in the govern-
ment in church and state. And the Indictment
sets forth, that the SOth of August, in the SOth
year of the king, he and other false traitors
did agree to stir up sedition and rebellion in
the kingdom, and to cause a great slaughter of
his majesty's subjects; to introduce the super-
stition of the church of Rome, and depose and
murder the king, and to alter the government in
church and state. And it is there said, that to
accomplish these evil designs he writ two let-
ters to be sent to Rome and St. Omers ; the
effect of which letters was, to procure the assis-
tance of the Pope and the French king, to alter
the religion established! by law in this kingdom
to Uomish Superstition, to subvert the govern-
ment, and to put the king to death ; and that
in further prosecution of these traitorous designs
he writ two other letters to be sent to Koine,
to one Christopher Anderton, rector of the
English college, and a Jesuit ; and two others to
be sent to St. Omers ; and in these letters he
took upon him to advise the way and means by
which these treasons might be effected, and
that these several letters were sent and de-
livered by him, and received. The Indictment
further sets forth, that in further prosecution
of these traitorous imaginations of his, he did *
receive five several commissions in writing,
by authority derived from the see of Rome ;
and those were for the making of military
officers, to execute these treasons by force
of arms, and that he did likewise .receive five
other commissions for constituting civil officers
in this realm, after the treason was committed.
And that amongst the rest he did receive fox
«S] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles lL 1 679.— Trial o/ Richard Langhorn, [4*4
himself one commission to be Advocate Gene-
ral of the army that was to \>e raised. And the
Indictment further charges upon the prisoner,
that to accomplish these treasons, whereas Ire-
land, Pickering and Grove, and other false
traitors, had consulted these lieasons, which I
before mentioned, Mr. Langhorn hud. notice of
the treasons, and did consent to them, and abet
them, aud that he did solicit the Benedictine
monks to advance 6,000/. for the murder of
the king, for the alteration o/ religion, and for
the subversion of the goverumeut in church and
state. And further, whereas Mr. Coleman
(who was executed for treason) bad (with others)
conspired the death of the king, and the intro-
ducing of popery, and had writ a letter to the
French 'Confessor La Chaise, for aid and as-
sistance, that the prisoner at the bar had notice
of this, and that he did consent to it, and did
abet it. This, gentlemen, is charged to be trai-
torously and devilishly done against the pri-
soner's allegiance, and the form of the statute.
To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty ; but if we
prove these treasons, or any of them, you are
Co find him Guilty.
Then Sir Cresmell Levin* , one of his Majes-
ty's Learned Counsel in the few, opened the
Charge thus :
May it please your lordship, and you gentle-
men (if the jury ; Mr. Langhorn is indicted for
treason, for having a part in that general trea-
son that you have heard several times before of,
and some persons there were indicted, tried,
and convicted yesterday, for that treason that
Mr. Langhorn bad an hand in : for the Indict-
ment does set forth, that there were letters
written by him to Rome to the same purpose, of
which gentleman you have heard so often, and
will hear again.
This Treason was no less than to murder the
king, to alter the religion, to overturn the law,
to raise an army by force to effect all this, and
in short to do all the mischief that men (if
it be lawful to call such creatures men) could
do. That there was, in order to this, a consulta-
tion held the 24th of April among the Jesuits ;
and there it was resolved that the king should
be killed, there were persons appointed to do it,
chut was Pickering and Grove, but they failed
therein, and they prosecuted it at Windsor ;
but happening to fail there also they followed
him to Newmarket, and ordered that it should
be done there : And when all this failed, they
took another course, bis majesty was to be
poisoned ; and as I said before, to make all
this good, an army was to be raised of 50,000
men in England, to perfect this work ; but if
that would not do, they were to have forces
from beyond sea to join with them : and Mr.
Langhorn he writ letters to procure these forces,
and he not only did so, but he found the effect
of his letters, and teceived commissions from
beyond sea, whereof one was for himself, to
be Advocate-General of the army. Ail these
things are laid to Mr. Langhorn's charge.
But 1 will begin first, and shew you, before I
come to the particular evidence against Mr.
Langhorn, some evidence of the general De-
sign ; and therefore we will call some witness**
to do that in the first place, aud then bring it
down to Mr. Langhorn himself.— Call Mr.
Dugdale aud Mr. Praunce. (Who were both
sworn, and Mr. Dugdale first stood up.) Come,
Sir, what do you know of any design to murder
the king ? Speak what you kuow concerning
the plot and conspiracy.
Dugdale. I was in several consultations for
alteration of this present government, and for
the introducing of popery, and for the murder
of the king. I was a person in most of the
consultations to the same purpose, and heard
the very words used, and was hired to be in-
strumental in it, and was to have a sum of
money to be one of them that should do it.
I was to be an actor in it, and was to have a
place appointed to do it.
Just. Atkins. What were you hired to do ?
Dugdale. I was to kill the king.
.Sir Cr. Levins. And who were the persona
that put you upon, it r
Dugdale. There was Mr. £werj,Mr. Gavan,
Mr. Luson, and Mr. Vavasor.
Sir Cr. Levin*. What were these men ?
Dugdale. They are all Jesuits.
Sir Cr. Lcvinz. Do you know of any army
that was to be raised to effect it?
Dugdale. They always did speak of an army
that was to be raised, but it was not actually to
be done till the king was killed; that was the
last conclusion : It was indeed first concluded
ou to raise an army, but the last consultation,
was, that there should no arms appear till the
king was killed.
Sir Cr. Levins. You do not know any thing
of Mr. Langhorn in particular, do you i
Dugdale. No, I do not know any thing
particular, I have heard of him.
L. C. J. North. Why, you brought hint
only to prove the general design.
Dugdale. There was a massacre to be, and
then there should be an army, a pretty good
considerable army, there was no certain num-
ber that I could hear of ; but those that did
escape the massacre should be cut off by the
army.
L. C. J. North. Where were these consul-
tations?
Dugdale. One was at Tixall, another was at
Boscobel, at my lord Aston's, and Mr. Gerard's.
L. C. J. North, Where were these places ?
Dugdale. In Staffordshire.
Just. Atkins. Pray, who were to be mas-
sacred in the first place ?
Dugdale. All protestants, and those we
could not be sure to be papists.
Mr. Bekoood. Pray, Sir, what do you know
of any letter to be writ to Mr. Ewers, concern-
ing sir Edmund bury Godfrey's death ?
Dugdale. I do remember a letter that came
to Mr. Ewers, from Mr. Harcourt, which did
express, and begin thus, ' This very night ait
Edmundbury Godfrey is dispatched'; with some
other words of like import ; and then I sent Co
4S5]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \619.— for High Treason.
[426
Mr. Ewers about it : and do you think tin's
will carry on the design ? I will be hanged if
it don't spoil it : No, said he, he was a person
that used to be very severe against debauched
lewd persons, aud so it will be laid, as it' (hey
had done it out of revenge.
L.C.J. North. What day of the week was
that letter dated.
DugdaU. It was, as I can very well make it
out, ou Saturday.
L. C. J. North. And when was it received ?
DugdaU. It was received on Monday night.
L, C. J. North. What were the contents of
it, do you say ?
DugdaU. It began thus, ' This very night
sir Edmund bury Godfrey is dispatched/
L. C J. North. Who did it come from ?
DugdaU. It came from Mr. Harcourt.
Sir Cr. Levinz. They themselves knew that
he was not found here in London, till Thursday.
DugdaU. I could not hold, it run so much in
my mind, but the next morning going to au ale-
house hard by, I there spoke of it, and imme-
diately it was carried to Mr, Chetwin, and he
was here yesterday to make it out, that I so
did.
L. C. J. North. But why did they kill him ?
Was it expressed why ?
DugdaU. I had several times heard be was
too much privy to their consultations.
L. C. J. North. That is, you mean, he had
too much discovered to him.
DugdaU. And so they were afraid of Mr.
Coleman too, that he carried things too high ;
and he was out of their favour for two years.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Then call Mr. Praunce;
Pray sir, what can you say ?
Praunce. There was one Mr. Messenger, a
gentleman of the horse to my lord Arundel of
Wardour, who was employed by my lord and
my lord Powis, and be was to kill the king, and
to have a very good reward for the doing of it ;
And I was told so by my lord Butler : I after-
wards met with this Messenger, and asked him
what his reason was that he would kill the king,
lie told me, be was off of it now.
Sir Cr. Levins. But what was to be done
after tbey should kill the king ?
Praunce. Presently there should be an army
of 50,000 men raised, to he governed by my
ford Arundel, and my lord Powis, and them : I
have heard Mr. Fenwick, and Mr. Ireland, and
Grove, to speak of this, at the same time to-
gether.
Sir Cr. Levinz. What was that army to he
raised fur?
Praunce. To settle the catholic rehgion.
L. C. J. North. What was to become of
other persons ?
Praunce. They were to be killed and rained
all : So Fenwick told me.
L. C. J. North. Look you, Mr. Leghorn,
these witnesses speak nothing to yoo in par-
ticular, hut only that there was a conspiracy
in general, to kill the king, and introduce po-
pery : If you will ask them any question; you
■ay*
Langhorn. No my lord, they not accusing
me, 1 have nothing to say to them.
Praunce. I heard one Mr. Harcourt say,
that the king was to be killed by several, before
one Mr. Thompson, twice iu his own chamber in
Duke street. And I heard Fenwick say that
Mr. Langhorn was to have a great hand in it.
Langhorn. Is that all you have to say as to
me ?
Praunce. It is all I know of.
Then the Lord Chief Justice Scroggs came in.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Now, my lord, we will call
the evidence, that shall prove the particular
matters of the indictment, as of writing the
letters beyond sea, of his receiving commissions,
of bis distributing them here to the several per-
sons to whom they were directed ; of his so*
liciting for the money, the 6000/. to be raised
by the Benedictine monks, which was either
for a particular purpose to poison the king, or
to carry on the design in general. And first
we call Dr. Oates. , Who was sworn, and
stood up.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Sir, you hear what the mat-
ter is, as to i Mr. Langhorn, be pleased to tell
the court, whether you knewjhe writ any letters*
and received any commissions; speak your
whole knowledge.
(kite*. 1 hope yonr lordship will be pleased
to give me leave to use my own method* <
L. C. J. Ay, ay, take your own way. Mr.
Oates.
Oates. Then I begin thus ; In April 1677, Ir
went into the kingdom of Spain r In Sep*
tember following, the sons of Mr. Langhorn
came ioto the kingdom of Spain : It was Sep-
tember, or sooner, but I will not be positive as
to the time of their coming ; the one was ~n
scholar of the English college at Madrid, the
other was a scholar of the English college at
Valladolid. They came there to study philoso-
phy, in order to their receiving of the priest*
hood. My lord, my occasions called me ante
England, iu November following ; and coming
into England, Mr. Laoghorn's sons did give me
i some letters to Mr. Langhorn their father ; and
as soon ns I had rested myself for a day or
two, after my journey, 1 came to Mr. Langhorn'*
house in Sheer-lane. Now Mr. Langhorn'4
wife, being a zealous protestant, I did whisper
bis foot-boy, or his servant- boy, in the ear, that
he should go and whisper his master, Mr. Lang*
horn, and tell him there was one would speak
with htm from his sons. Mr. Langhorn, by his
son, did desire me, to meet him at his chamber
in the Temple, (in the Inner Temple-lane, it was
I think)! know the chamber, however; end
accordingly I did meet Mr. Langhorn that
night, by the means of his half- brother, who is
brother, I think, by the mother, and not by*
the father, his name is Smithsoti ; and when I
came into Mr. Langhorn's chamber, their cham-
bers being directly opposite one to another, I
was treated by Mr. Langhorn- with a great
deal of civility, and I delivered Mr. Languor*
the letters from His sons, and i told him, that
427] ,STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Chaiijles II. 1670.— 'frial qf Richard Langhorn, [4S&
I thought his sons would enter into the society :
Mr. Langhorn was mightily pleased w ith the
news, being himself a great votary for the
society, that his sons would enter into it.
Now, may it please your lordship, Mr. Lang-
horn did say, He thought if they did continue
in the world, that is secular priests, they would
suddenly have very great promotion in Eng-
land ; for he said, Things would not lust long
in this posture ; that is, at that time he then
spoke ; I speak the words now, that he said
then. And now, my lord, I was with Mr.
Langhorn another time, while I was in Eng-
land ; but in the latter end of November, O. S.,
in the beginning of December N. $., I went to
St. Oraers, and there were letters that he de-
livered tne (looking upon the Prisoner,) a
pacquet to carry to St. Omers. And when the
pacquet was opened, there was a letter signed
* Richard Langhorn/ in which he gave the
Fathers at St. Omers great thanks, for the great
care had of, and kindness they shewed to, his
Sons, and that what they had been out of
pocket for their Viaticum, in order to their
journey into Spain, which was 20/. he promised
them they should be repaid it ; and in this let-
ter be did expressly say, that he had written to
Father La Chaise in order to our concerns ;
those were his words. Now, my lord, the let-
ter that he writ to Father La Chaise 1 saw not,
but only thi* letter I saw, which gave an ac-
count of that letter he had writ to Father La
Chaise; and he said Mr. Coleman had been
very large with him, and therefore it would not
be necessary for him to trouble his reverence
with any large cpittles at that time. My lord,
there was another letter, and I think that was
in the month of March or April, T cannot be
positive as to the particular time, but it was
upon this remarkable circumstance: Mr. Lung-
horn had a sun that had been in Rebellion,
and had turned soldier, or some such thing in
France, and this young gentleman came to St.
Omers, being n.e place where he had been
educated ; and Mr. Langhorn, by the interces-
sion of the Father* there, did order him 5/ , to
bring him over into England, upon promise of
his son's submi-sion, who had been very extra-
vagant in »everal respects. In this letter, my
lord, Mr. Langhorn did express his great care
for the carrying on of the design of the Catho-
lics, and several other expressions there were
in it bad enoogh, which I cannot now call to
mind, but they were to this effect: The parlia-
ment b pan to flag in promoting the pro test ant
religion, and now they had a fair opportunity
to begin and give the blow ; what that blow
was, I leave to the court and to the jury to
expound.
L. C. J. But was that an expression in the
letter?
Oates. It was, my lord : But it was a very
large letter, I cannot give a particular account
of every tiling in it. My lord, in the month of
April, or the beginning of May, your lordship
remembers there was a consult that hath been
*worn here in this Court, to which consult
L. C. J. Pray speak it out.
Gates. There were several of us came over
from St. Omers, and from other parts beyond
the seas, to this consult, at which consult Mr.
I^anghoru was not present; but I had orders
from the provincial, to give Mr. Langhorn an
account of what Resolutions, and Passages, and
Minutes passed at this consult; and this 1 did
as well as I could, and when 1 did so, Mr.
Langhorn lift up his hands and his eyes, and
prayed to God to give it good success. My
lord, while I was at Mr. Langhorn^ chamber,
giving this account, 1 saw several parchments
lying upon the table in his study.
L. C. J. You had best tell the effect of the
account you gave Mr. Langhorn in his chamber,
that you speak of.
Oates. My lord, I told him who went pro-
curator to Koine, that was one Father Cary, I
told him vi hat was the resolve of the consult
concerning the death of the king.
L. C.J. Did you so?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I did : I told Mr. Lang*
horn that several of the Fathers were to
be admonished for their irregular living, as
they termed it : Aud to this Mr. Lang-
horn did reply, as near as I can remember, that
he found some of them did not live up to the
rules of the Society.
L. C. J. Pray tell us more particularly, what
you told him. And tell us as near as vou can,
as you told it him then, the business ot the Plot
upon the king.
Oates. I told him the Resolve of the Society,
and of that cousult, and what was thnt which
was resolved, that Pickering and Grove should
go on to attempt to assassinate the king's per-
son, and what was to be their reward; the one
was to hxve, that is Grove, 1,500/. and the
other, thnt is Pickering, was to have 30,000
Masses : He lift up his hands and eyes when I
told him this (and 1 told him more particularly
than I can now remember), and he lift up his
hands and eyes, and prayed God that it might
have good success.
L. C. J. Did you tell him they had signed
to this agreement ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I told* him that they had
all signed it.
Langhorn. When was this ?
Oates. It was the latter end of April, or be-
ginning of May.
Langhorn. How long after they bad signed
the consult?
Gates. A day or two after.
Langhorn. Dr. Oates, Do you know the daj
of the month ? You have asserted the day of
the month formerly, pray do it now.
Just. Pemberton. Let him go on, you shall
ask htm what questions you will, by and by.
Oates, My lord, I saw there a commission,
for my lord Arundel of W ardour, and another
to my lord Powis ; the one was to be Lord High
Chancellor, and the other to be Lord High
Treasurer ; there was a commission for my lord
Bellas!*, to be General, another for my lord
Petre, to be Lieutenant General; and there
STATE TRIALS! 31 Charles II. 1 679.— for High Treason.
429]
were othe r commissions, of which I cannot re-
member the particular names ; but there was
a commission for Coleman to be Secretary of
State, and there was a commission for the pri-
soner at the bar to be Advocate of the army.
X. C. J. By what authority were those com-
missions ?
Oates. They were by authority derived from
the see of Rome, by virtue of a fireve from the
Pope, directed to the General of the Society,
and they were sigued MX, and with the mark
of the cross through the IHS, and they were
signed " Johannes Paulus de Oliva."
L. C. J. North. That is the Jesuits' mark ?
Oates. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. North. Where did yon see those
commissions ?
Oates. In Mr. Langhorn's study of bis cham-
ber in the Temple.
X. C.J. Where? Did they lie open, that any
one might see them ?
Oates. They lay upon the corner of his desk,
folded up.
X. C. J. How came you to see them ?
Oates. My lord, if your lordship please, I will
sell your lordship how I came to. see them.
We had notice they were come by a letter from
one Father Anderton, and he called these com-
missions patents, and, if it please your lord-
ship, I did ask Mr. Langhorn, whether he had
received ihem? He told me, Yes: Then I
asked him, whether he would do me the favour
it let me see them ? And because I had been
privy to the Consults, and came to wait upon
him by order of the provincial, he did let me
see thetn. '
X. C. J. And you saw them in his study,
upon his desk ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I did. - Aud particu-
larly one more I can tell of, which his son was
to deliver to a son of my lord Arundel of War*
dour.
X. C. J, How many commissions were
there?
OtUes. I cannot say, about 7 or 8, 1 think, I
aid see, and looked over.
Justice Atkins. And you knew what they
were?
Oates. Yes, for those that I saw, that I can
remember.
X. C. J. What was my lord Powis to he ?
Oates. Lord High Treasurer.
X. C. J. And what my lord Arundel ?
Oates. Lord High Chancellor of England,
X. C. J. And what my lord Stafford ?
Oates. As to my lord Stafford, I cannot give
so good an account ; bnt as I remember, he was
to be a paymaster in the army, or some snch
office relating to the army.
L. C. J. North. What was the prisoner at
the bar to be ?
Oates. A Judge in the army, or an Advocate
General, so they called him.
X. C /. You saw most of these ?
Oates. I saw several of them, most of them
in his custody, I cannot say all : Then was
[490
more than for these lords, for other inferior of*
ficers.
X. C. /. How many might there be of them,
as near as you can guess ?
Oates. I think he told me they were about
fifty.
X. C. J. - What number did you see ?
Oates. I saw about half a dozen or eight.
X. C. J. Well, Sir, go on.
Oates. My lord, I am now to speak to your
lordship concerning some letters that he wrote
to Home, and there was
X. C. J. Had you any discourse with him
concerning the matters of any of the commis-
sions of my lord fieilasis and my lord Powis?
Oates. No, my lord ; I had but little skill in
military affairs, and therefore I said but little,
and I cannot give you an account, word for'
word, what the discourse was, for it was out of
my way. My lord, there were several letters
which Mr. Langhorn writ to Father La Chaise,
the answers to which I saw in April and May ;
whereupon the Fathers did desire they might
have the originals of those copies : He gave me
the originals to carry to the Fathers, I think it
was that very day I had been with him in the.
afternoon ; for I was with him in the morning ;
the Fathers did rend the letters.
X, C. J. From whom came they ?
Oates. From Father La Chaise, and from
Father Anderton. Ami La Chaise, in his let-
ter, did assure him of his stedfastness and
constancy, to assist the Society for the carry-
ing on the cause : and that they should not
need doubt, but the French king would stand
by them, or to that purpose. I cannot re-
member exactly the words, but it was to that
effect.
X. C. J. But they were directed to Mr.
Langhorn ?
Oates. I cannot swear that directly, but be>
gave them me.
X. C. J. Who were La Chaise and Anderton ?
Oates. The one was confessor to the French
king, and the other rector of the College at
Rome.
Justice A I kins. But you saw those in the pri-
soner's custody, you say ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C.J. He gave them you to deliver to
the Fathers, to Whitebread and the rest of
them?
Oates. Yes, my lord, but I cannot say who
they were directed to.
. X. C. J. But pray repeat what was the sub-
stance of that letter.
Oates. My lord, as to the words of tbem, I
dare not charge my memory ; but it was to this
purpose, that La Chaise would stand by the.
English Society, and assist them, and that they
should not need to doubt the French king, or to
that effect.
Mr. Belwood. Do you remember any letters
that were writ by Mr. Coleman to La Chaise?
Oates. Yes, my lord, I remember several let*
ters that Coleman writ, but Mr. Laughorn was
not affected in them. .
431] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1670.— Triat qf Richard LangJiorn, [488
Mr. Behoood. Did be know of them ?
Oates. He gave an account in his letter to
the Society, That Coleman had writ letters to
La Chaise, and was very Urge, and therefore
he should not trouble his reverence with any
long epistles.
Sir Cr. Levin*. What do vou know of any
money that was to be raised by the Benedic-
tine monks ?
Oates. I had forgot that.
X. C. J. You say, that he said, they should
not need to doubt the French, but he would
stand by them with men and money : For what
purpose, pray ?
Oates. Fit tell you for what purpose it was :
the words of the letter did alledge it to be for
carrying on of the cause.
Justice Pemberton. You mean the Catholic
cause ?
Oates. So it was generally understood.
X. C. J. But for the other money, what say
you ?
Oates. Mr. Langhorn was employed as soli-
citor for the Jesuits, and did accompany some
of the Society, Father Harcourt, Father Fen-
wick, Father Kaines and Father Langworth,
and they went and did communicate the secret
to the Benedictine monks, desiring them to
stand by them with a sum of money for the
carrying on the design : Now, upon Mr. Lang-
horn's soliciting them, and appearing for them,
as I have heard, 6,000/. was promised and
paid.
X. C. J. By whom promised and paid ?
Oates. By the Benedictine monks.
X. C. J. To whom ?— Oates. To the Society.
X. C J. To what person ?
Oates. That I cannot say ; but it was said,
Mr. Langhorn was to receive it.
X. C. J- Did you see the money paid?
Oates. No, I did not.
X. C. J. Did you bear Mr. Langhorn confess
it was paid ?
Oates. Mr. Langhorn did say in the month
of July or August, I cannot be positive which,
but thereabouts, when he was spoke to about
it, that he would stir in it, and do the utmost
of his power for the procuring of it. And ano-
ther thing, I am sure Mr. Langhorn was very
much disgusted, that sir George Wakeman was
not contented with the 10,000/.
Sir Cr. Levinz. What was the 6,000/. for?
Oates. It was for the general cause.
Sir Cr. Levinz. For the murder of the king ?
Oates. Yes, and the alteration of religion.
L. C. J. North. How did it appear that Mr.
Langhorn was disgusted, that sir George Wake-
man would not take the 10,000/. ? and what
was it for ?
Oates. It was to poison the king. And he
said, He was a covetous man ; that was in a
public concern ; and that, being it was to carry
on the cause, it was no matter if he did it for
, nothing : But be said he was a narrow-spirited,
and a narrow' souled physician.
X. C. J. When was it that be said be would
stir for the money ?
Oates. It was in July, or in August.
Langhorn. My lord, may I ask him any
question ?
Justice Pemberton. Yes, yes, Mr. Langhorn,
you may.
L. C. J. North. Pray, Mr. Oates, you saw
such and such commissionsTrom the superior of
the Jesuits, that were signed 'Johannes Panlus
deOliva;' pray will you look upon this, and
see whether you know it? [And a writing un-
der the Jesuits seal was shewed him.]
Oates. This is the hand, the very hand, that
was to the others, and they had put such a seal ;
and that is for Mr. Stapletou to be rector of St.
Omen.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Now, my lord, if you please,
this was not one of those commissions that Mr.
Langhorn did distribute to the persons that
were to have them ; no, he would let us have
none of those; but is a commission of another
nature, it ie neither for an office civil or mili-
tary, but ecclesiastical, and yet It is under the
same hand and seal.
Langhorn. You say you came to me, the
first time, in November; and you went to St.
Omers, when, sir ?
Oates. The latter end of November.
Langhorn. When arrived you at St. Omers?
Oates. I think it was the 10th December
New Stile, I will not be positive.
X. C. J. All their defence lies in catches
upon a point of time, in which no man living
is able to be positive.
Oates. My lord, if the 36th of November
fell upon a Monday, then it was on the 26th
day that I set out for Dover in the coach, as
near as I can remember, and I got to St. Omers
a Friday morning following.
Langhorn. A Friday after, you say, you got
to St. Omers ?
Oates. About that time.
Langhorn. How long did you stay tlfere?
Oates. Till April following I staid.
, Langhorn. Without any moving from thence?
Oates. I only went to Paris, and after that, a
night or two at Watton, and then came .away
in April. My lord, I desire, tf your lordship
pleases, that Mr. Langhorn map ask the coort,
and the court ask me ; for . I know the court
will be so kind as to ask me such questions as
are reasonable and proper for me to answer.
Justice Atkins. That indeed is the regular
way, for prisoners should not ask the questions,
but the court.
Langhorn. Very well, I shall observe the
method, if your lordship please. I desire to
know what time in April he came back for
England.
Oates. £ came about the middle of April, or
latter end, 1 will not be so positive in tliat, and
I was in England under twenty days.
Langhorn. Can you tell what day you cane
into England ?
Oates. No, I cannot exactly, but I came in
April, the middle or the latter end.
Langhorn. I desire to know who came with
him?
433}
STATE TRIALS, SI C«au*s II. 167<Wbr High Treoxm.
[434
Oates. M v lord, there came a matter1 of nine
or ten of us in all.
L. C. J. Name them.
Oates. There was Father Williams,- and Fa-
ther March, the rector of Liege, and sir John
Warner.
Langhom. What is the rector of Liege's
name ?
Oates. Warren, I think ; I cannot tell names
so exactly.
Langhorn. Go on, Sir, pray.
Dates. I cannot name any more.
langhorn. You have named them all in the
records of the Lords' House. .
Oates. It is like I have. I refer you to that.
langhom. Did sir Thomas Preston come
over with yon ?
Oaies. Yes, be did.
• Langhorn. Did Poole come over with you ?
Oates. Yes. . . ^ m
L. C. J. Look yon, Mr. Langhorn, we hail
all this matter spoken of yesterday, and there
were witnesses that prove that sir John Warner
and sir Thomas Preston xvere there.
Langhorn. I humbly conceive, that was jpon
an issue tried in another county, by another
jury, and therefore I hope I do not amiss in urg-
iag what I can say for myself to this jury.
L C. J. You are not debarred, I only told
yoo of it. Was sir Robert Brett there ?
Oates. Yes, I think he was, I am not confi-
dent of that. My lord, I own what Mr. Lang-
horn can bring to the Court upon record.
Langhorn. I only ask it, because he says so
in the House of Lords.
Oates. If you can shew the record of what I
said there, do.
Langhorn. I do not desire him to name
them new, but to know whether be does now
affirm the truth of what he swore in the House
of Lords.
L. C. J. If you can produce, as you may, if
you have been diligent, a copy of the record in
the House of Lords, and have it sworn to be a
m* copy of the records, it will be evidence for
you, and shall be read; but to put him to re-
nember a record without book, must not be, it
would be hard for him to undertake that.
Langhorn. I desire to know how he came'
from Dover; whether. in a coach, or on horse-
hick, to London ?
(W*. Indeed the question is so sudden, that
I caaoot be positive, but as near as I remem-
ber, 1 came by coach.
Langhorn. I will give my reason why I ask
this; because he hath formerly, upon a trial in
the Kin^s-Bench, affirmed became by coach, in
the company of Mr. HiUley.
Oates. No, I did never say so; but I came
ever in the packet-boat, in the company of Mr.
Hibley; but when we were come over, Mr.
HiUley went out of the way from us.
Langhom. I desire to know where he lodged,
when he came to town ?
X. C. J. Where did you lodge the first night?
Oates. I did lie at Mr. Grove's house, when
I came to London in April.
vou yii.
L. C. J. But the first night when you came
from Dover, when you came into London in
April? '
Oates. My lord, I cannot say I lay there the
first night; but my lodging was provided for me
there.
L. C. J. You are to answer as well as you
can • if you cannot remember it, say so. Do
you say the first absolutely, or not?
Oates. My lord, I cannot remember the first
nipht, but I lay several nights at Mr. Grove's.
Langhorn. Then I ask wltether he did gene*
rally lie there during hit stay. ■
Oates. I did lie there some nights.
L. C. J. How many times did you lie there?
Oates. I believe three or four nights. I won't
be positive as to the number.
Langhorn. What day was the consult?
Oates. It was the j?4tb of April.
Langhorn. What day did you acquaint me
with it ? — Oates. A day or two after.
Langhorn. When did he return back to St.
Omersr
X. C. J. When did you go back? about what
time ?
Oates. My lord, 1 think it was a week in
May, I cannot be positive, but I think that was*
the outside.
L, C. J. They said, yesterday you affirmed
you stayed but six days.
Oate*. I do not say so, but I say under SO*
Mr. Justice Dolben. Come, have you any
thing else to ask him ?
Langhom. Those letters that he speaks of,
I desire to know whether he saw me write them ?
L. C. J. Those letters you speak of, did
you see him write them ?
Oates. I did not see him write them, but I
am sore they were his letters, because I know
bis hand.
L. C. J. How did you come to know hit
band, since you did not see him write them ?
Oates. I saw the letter whereby he ordered v
money to be paid, 5/. to his son. And I saw
the money paid to his son by that order.
Langhorn. Do you know that La Chaise and
Anderton writ to me ?
Oates. I do not say that they writ to him,
but he bad letters subscribed by their names,
and they were said by him to come from them,
and they were to be communicated to the priests
and Jesuits ; and he delivered them to me to
that end.
Langhorn. When you returned to St. Omera,
how long did you stay there ?
Oates. Till 33d June, New Stile, which is the
13th Old Stile.
Langhom* I remember he professed himself
a Roman Catholic, I see he is a minister : 1 de-
sire to know of him when he left the Protestant
Religion, and became a convert, as be called
himself; call it what you will, when he left
being a Protestant, and became a Papist, thai
is it I mean?
Oates. He does it for nothing hut to quarrel.
L. C. J. When did yon leave the church of
England ? ,
2F
IS*) STATE TRIALS, 51 Charlbs XL lflW.— 7rW of Riefiarct Latgharh, [43fr
(htm. My Lord, if it be the pleasure of the
tench to ask me this question
X. C. J. You ought to answer it, though it
fee nothing to the purpose.
Outes* Then I answer it was- either in Fe-
bruary or March, 1677.
Langhom My Lmo\ I desire to know whe-
ther he had any benef ce r
Oates. Yew, I was sometime Vicar of Bob-
bing—in Kent t But I suppose this is to make
me accuse myself of something, whereby I
might forfeit my living : for, my Lord, I have a
right in point of equity still to that living, bat
only for going beyond sea without leave of my
ordinary, I am not now Vicar of
Langhofn. When did you come to your Vi-
carage ?
OtUes* In 1072.
Langhwrn. You became a Papist in 1077. I
ask this question> whether he did leave his living
before he turned Papist f
Oates. My Lord, I am not willing to answer
that question.
X. C. J. When did you leave your living ?
Did you leave it before you went away ?
Gates, It was not very long before ; but the
mason why I am not willing to tell is, When
r left the parish, I left it in the charge of Mr.
Thomas Turner, Vicar of Milton, and I did go
near about Chichester, «nd served a sequestra*
ftion there. The air Was not a good air in that
part of Kent, and I had not my health; and
that was one reason, ami for other reasons best
known to myself.
Langhom. After he became a papist, I de-
sire to know whether he became a Jesuit?
Were you in any order there ?
X. t. J. Mr. Langhom, it is not a proper
question, we ought not to ask it him : You are
a man of the law, and therefore you know it is
*ot fair to ask any person a question about a
criminal matter that may bring himself m dan-
ger.
Langhom. I take him to be out of danger,
be hath his pardon.
L. C. £ I don't know what bis pardon is,
nor how far it reaches, nor whether this be con-
tained in it ; bat if Mr. Oates pleases to answer
that question he may.
Justice Dolbm. Though be bath his pardon,
be may be in danger of ecclesiastical censure.
• L. C. J. He says, he will not.
Langhom. I will give you another reason
why I ask it, because m one of his Narratives
he seems to call himself so ; he says ' There
came ever bine of us, all Jesuit?,' I suppose
him to be one of that order ; this I took to be a
ground why I might properly call him so.
L, C. J.' Narratives are no evidence at all.
Langhotn. But that gave me an occasion to
*&k the question.
Ofrtes. I cannot answer tit, because it tends
father to raise a debate in the court, than con-
duces to the question, to acquit or condemn
she prisoner.
Justice P*nfeH»*« Y<m are not bound to
answer it.
X. C. J. He telle you, he is not bound by*
law to answer, and he refuses to answer.
Langhorn. I desire to know whether lie e*er
saw me, or conversed with me, from the time
he acquainted me *ith the consult, and saw1
the commissions in my chamber ?
X. C. J. How often did you converse with,
Mr. Langhom ?
Oates. After I returned again in July and
August, once or twice.
X. C. J. How often in April and May f
Oates. Twice, I think, about the time of the
consult.
X. C. J. And when you came Over again, hOW
©ftert* >
Oates. Twice more, I think ; twice or thrice.
X. C. J. So then, he hath been four or lite?
times in your company ?
Oatet. He would not let me come to bis
house, for he used to say, his wife was but
Aums-ace turned from a devil ; and therefore
he would not have m~e come thither.
Langhorn. I hope he will not go out of the?
court.
X. C. J. No, he will stay here, but you have
done with him at present, have you not f
Langhom. Yes, my lord. I have.
Sir Cr. Levins. Swear Mr. Bedlow. [Whicb
was donej
X. C. J. Mr. Bedlow, I ask you but on*
short question, because I would not interrupt
you afterwards, that paper that you saw
signed by the superior of the Jesuits, where*
had you it I
Bedlow. I bad it at Mr. Daniel Arthur's.
Langhorn. What is that ?
X. C. J. It is an instrument signed ajm>
sealed, just as the things were which Mr,
Oates says be saw in your chamber.
L. C. J. North. And besides yon must take*
notice, that this was found a long time after
Mr. Oates had given bis testimony publicly, for
his closet was not searched till a great whjlay
after.
X. C. J. It is to shew you what teals they
used to have to their commissions. Mr. Oates)
describes several commissions that he saw' in
your study, so sealed and subscribed ; ami.
after the searching Mr. Arthur's study, being a
papist, that commission is found there. Now
though it be a thing of a private concern, ev
church ma iter, not relating to the matters in
question, yet this very commission is so sub-
scribed, and so signed and sealed, as Mr. Oates>
had described those to be before in your
chamber.
Bedlow. Because it was exactly the hand and
seal that I saw to the commissions in Parts, I
did take particular notice of the paper, and
brought it to the council.
X. C. J. Well, Sir, now go on with your evi-
dence.
Bedlam. First, my lord, I will only ask this
Question of the court, whether a known Rottmn
tanolic may take notes of the evidence m sucls
a causer
X. C. J. Truly no, I tkiok not.
491)
6TATK TWAU5, 91 ChaW** B. IffltWjfr Higl Trwuoo,
14M
BfAw. There it an honourable lady in that
gallery, the Jady Marchioness of Winchester,
that bath took notes all this trial.
X. C. J. She will do herself, nor nobody else
eargreat hurt, by what the writes.
Vcdlom. I only speak k for the information
ef the court.
L.C. J. A women's notes will not signify
fcneb truly, no more than her tongue.
JfeeYom. My lord, about three years since, I
was sent by Mr. Hareourt and Mr. Coleman,
to La Chaise, with some letters lor the carrying
en of this desigo. With these letters, Mr.
Coleman naked me, if I could go with bun as
far as the Temple. I hate no particular ac-
quaintance with Mr- Leogboro, I was but twice
at hie chamber, once w£b lib, Hareourt, and
once with Mr. Coleman. I waked upon Mr.
Coleman to Mr. . Laagbarn's chamber in the
Temple : there did be register such lettess as
Mr. Coleman brought to Turn, and afterwards
Mr. Coleman sealed tbeta op, and gave tbem
me to cam to La Chaise.
L. C. J. How do you say ? When you went
with Mr. Coleman to Mr. Laaghorn'a chamber,
were the letters there ?
JfeeW. The letters were writ first at Cole-
man's boose, and brought open by Coleman to
Mr. Langborji, and he read them and registered
them, and then Coleman sealed them up, and
gave them me to carry away.
Xawaera. What letters were these ?
L, C.J. Th you know what the effect of
those letters were?
JkdUm. The letters were read, some of them,
at the KingVBench bar, at Coleman's trial :
there woe one of them writ by Mr. Hareourt,
another by Mr. Coleman to La Chaise.
Jest. JPeme, What was the effect of them?
Bedtom. Only to let La Chaise know, that
S waited only now for bis answer, how far
ad proceeded with the French king, for the
sending of money; for tbey only wanted
money, aU other things were io readiness.
That the Catholics of England were in safety,
had made all places, and all offices, to be dis-
posed of Co Catholics, or such as they thought
weald be so ; that all garrisons were either io
their own bands, or ready to be put into them ;
sad they had so fair an opportunity, (as I re-
awaabtr that was one of the expressions in the
letter to rather Stapleten) that they had so
wir an opportunity, hating a king so easy to be-
here what is dictated to him by our party,
that if we alip this oppojtenijry, we must despair
of ever introducing popery into England ; for
having a king of England so easy, and the
French king so powerful, they must not miss
each an epportneiry.
L.C.J. For what?
Bediom. To send over money far the carrying
caaee, for they only wanted that, all
tea in rnarfinran and the other letters
to the same efltct, though ia other weeds.
Thai letter vaaa io Bngkish, but the letters to La
Chasm ami the* Naacie were both io F reach.
X. C. J. But /on understand French* do
not you?
Bedhp. Yes, my lord, I do.
X. C. X Did he copy them oat, while yea
were thereby?
Bcdl*o. He registered tbem before me.
X. C. X Did he write tbem into a book ?
and were you -there all that time ?
BeeUow. Yes, my lord, I and Coleman walked
in $be caaaahar, whilst he want in and writ, as
he did other things ; for he registered all their
accempts : there was not a penny of money
either received or laid out, nor any thing done
almost in relation to this concern, but he did
keep a register of it: I cannot say, that ever
he did talk any thing before me of* the kingZe
death particularly, bat talked of the whole
design. Aboet a year and a naif auice, Mr.
Hareourt sent another pacquct of letters by me
to Mr. Langfcocn to be registered ; he looked
strangely upon me, and received the letter, and
sent an answer to Mr* Hareourt, that Mr. WhV
liamt(forI went then uader the name of cap-
tain Williams) had delivered him such letter^,
and that he should have them again to-morrow,
alter he bad copied tbem, and registered them.
Mr. Hareourt read the letter of answer to me,
aud in the letter it was Mr. Williams. Said I
to Mr. Ilnrcourt, I thought I might have been
registered by my right name, because when any
thing should take effect and occasion serve, I
resolved to bear my own name. Alas, says he,
this does not signify any ibing at all, for as for
this register, it is not so considerable : there)
shall be anew register made, of things of weight
and moment, this is only a blind register
amongst ourselves. The two letters that I
brought from Hareourt, there was one of them
from air William Godolphio, that I had brought
before from Spain.
X. C. X Who wa« that directed to ?
Bedlam. To tny lord Bellasis; and oboe*
three weeks after it was that I wna sent to
Mr. Leughorii to have it registered ; the other
was from the Irisn college of Jesuits in Salev
atanca. TheJetterfrom the rector did specify,
that they would have my lord Bellasis, aud the
rest of the lords that wese concerned, and the
rest of the party in England, to be in .readiness}
and to have this communicate^ with all expo*
dition ; for now they had provided in Spain,
under the notion of pilgrims for fit Jago, tome
Irish caahiered aoktien, that had left their
country, some for religion, and some for their
crimes, and a great many lay-brothers, whom
they procured and gathered together under the
notion of adgrims, to be ready to take shipping
at the Groioe, to land at Milfoijd- Haven, there
to meet my lotd Powis, and an army that he
was to raise in. Waks to further this design.
And these letters said they had almost brought
it to a period, that they aid only expect a rer
turn front England, to shew io what readiness
they were heae, that accordingly they might
proceed.
X. C, X Did Mr. Langhorn see these tetters ?
Jfedmw. Ha took these letters from me, and
told me Mr. Hareourt should have them
again, when he had tmoacrihed them ; and
439] STATE TRIALS, Si CharUs 1L \679.+-7Yutl of Richard Langliorn, [440
writ a letter to Mr. JJarcouit, that Mr. Wil-
liams had brought him such letters.
L. C. J. And he didtranscribe them ?
Ballot*. I suppose so, for he afterwards sent
them back to Mr. Harcourt.
Justice Atkins. Was it a good large book
that he registered there in ?
Bedlam. I kaow not what book he registered
them in, not those letters.
Langhorn. It is a proper question, because
lie said I registered those letters before him.
Bedhw. I say, I saw him in bis study trans-
cribe €oleinanvs letter, whilst Coleman and I
-walked in his chamber.
L. C. J, Into what kind of book did he re-
gister that? had he more books than one, pray?
Bedhw. My lord, I cannot tell that, I judge
jt might be the same book. I saw the book
then„ it was a large parchment book; but I did
not see it when Harcourt'* letters were regis-
tered. When Coleman and I came thither, he
went into his study, and left us in the chamber,
J saw him transcribing the papers that lay be-
fore him : but when I brought those letters
from Mr. Harcourt, I only delivered them seal-
ed up, and his answer to Father Harcourt was,
that Mr. Williams had brought him so many
letters, and he should have them again as soon
as he had transcribed them.
L. C. J. Mr. Langhorn, you would do weU
to shew us the book, and that would make the
matter plain.
L. & J. North. Could you see how far he
had gone in the book, and what room there
Was left to write other letters?
Bed low. It was a book at least three inches
•thick, and as near as I could guess he had got-
ten through two thirds of the book.
X. C. J. But you should shew us your book,
Jttr. Langhorn.
Langhorn. I say, my lord, if I had such a
hook, it must needs be found in my study; if I
. bad it, it must be there, for I never removed it.
L. C. J. That was not a book fit to be left
there.
Bedhw. My Lord, Pritchard did tell me that
the commissions were come, and that Mr. Lane-
horn had them, and things, says he, are now
in a readiness. Then said I, When shall I
have my commission ? said he, those that Mr.
Langhorn hath are only for the general officers,
you must have yours, said he, from my lord
Bellasis.
• Sir Cr. Levinx. Do you know any thing of
any money that was to be raised by the Bene
<dictine monks ; 6,000/. or what other sum ?
Bedloto. My lord, in May 1676, among the
letters I carried to La Chaise, one of them was
directed to Slapleton a Benedictine monk, to
raise the money for England.
L. C J. The money, what money ?
Bedhw. The money they had promised to
remit into England.
L. C J. But did they name no'suin ?
Bedhw. No, my lord, for they had no par-
ticular promise, but only that they did make it
their business to raise what they could.
L. C. J. And what was it ? Do you know of
any sum of money that was raised, and by
whom ?
Bedhw* La Chaise told me himself, that
they had no reason to suspect him or his inter-
est with the French king, for be had laid that
sure enough. And that when he fouud a fit
opportunity, the money was ready to be re-
mitted into England, and that he had remitted
some of it already to Mr. Coleman and Ireland.
L. C. J. You know not but by what La
Chaise told you ? — Bedhw. No.
L. C. J. He speaks what La Chaise told hint
that be would raise money, and that he had
sent some to Mr. Coleman and Ireland.
Bedhw. Yes, and that the rest should follow
when he found there was absolute occasion ;
but be would not part with his money till
they had assurauce of their being in readiness
here and likely to further and carry on' the de-
sign ?
Mr. Justice Atkins. Mr. Bedlow, had you
any discourse with the prisoner ahont any
commissions ?
Bedhw. No, My lord, it is at least a year
and a half since I saw him.
L. C. J. Did he ever own any commissions
he had ?
Bedlow. No, Pritchard told me he had some.
L. C. J. You have seen the commissions,
have you not?
Bedhw. No/ 1 never saw any in Mr. Lang-
horn's hand.
L. C. , J. Where did lyqu see them then ?
Bedhw. Sir Henry Tichbournedid shew me
three commissions in Paris, signed by the ge-
neral of the order, and sealed with the Jesuits
seal, which made me take up this paper, which
hath been shewn, though it were a thing in-
different, yet, because it was written with the
same hand, and sealed with the same seal that
the commissions were that I saw at Paris.
Mr. Belwood. Did Mr. Langhorn know any
thing of the treason to murder the king, by
Pickering and Grove ?
Bedhw. That I do know only by report ; but
when Grove Pickering, and Conyers were
going to New-Market, I was at Harcourt's
chamber, and I had a design to go to Windsor
to observe what they did ; and I did ask Fa-
ther Harcourt to give me leave -to go see a
friend of mine take shipping at Plymouth, to
send some commendations by bun to my
friends in Italy ; then says Father Harcourt,
you cannot be spared, you must not go now,
for we don*t,know what return these gentlemen
will make of theirjouroey, and w^at occasion
there may be for you, if there should be any
good effect of it : then, said I, I will go and
write, and send it by a friend down to be sent
into Italy : but, said he, you must stay a while
till I come back again ; I am going to Mr.
Langhorn's chamber in the Temple, to take the
minutes of what they have done this morning.
That was the contrivance of sending down
those people to Newmarket to assassinate the
king.
441]
STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles II. 1679.— for High Treason.
[44$
Justice Atkins. That is no evidence -against
the prisoner, because it is by hear-say.
L. C. J. It is right, and die jury ought to
take notice, that what another man said is no
evidence against the prisoner, for nothing will
be evidence against him, but what is of his own-
know ledge. But I desire, Mr. Bedlow, as well
as you can you would repeat the effect of one
of the most material letters Mr. Langhorn did
transcribe. -
Bedlow. Though I was not so exact a French-
man, in the nicety of the tongue, yet I under-
stood enough to learn the sense of those letters.
The English Letter from Stapletou, which he
transcribed, was to this effect : That Coleman
•od rJarcoort, naming themselves Wo (that
is, We and the Jesuits, and it was to the
rector of the English monks in particular, but!
missed of the rector,' and Mr. Stapleton recei-
ved it) ; I say, the effect of that letter was, <
ibey would have a certain answer from them—
jLanghorn. When was it ?
Bedlow. It was in 1676.
L. C. J. What was the effect, say you ?
Bedlow. The effect was, that they would
have a final answer from those religious at
Doway and Paris, to know how far they had
proceeded with the English religious, and all
their friends beyond sea, in making collections,
and remitting of money, for there was only
money wanting; for the arms of the Catholics
were all ready, and tbey Had all a good mind to
the business, their arms and hearts were ready,
and toe easiness of the king of England, and
the strength of the power of France, made it
an opportunity not to be neglected : That the
garrisons were ready to be put into such hands
as they could trust.
L. C. J. Was there such an expression in (he
letter, upon your oath, that they had such
arms, and thai the garrisons were ready to be <
put into their hands, and whose hands they
were ready to be put into?
Bedlow. Yes, my lord, there were such ex-
pressions, and they would have the garrisons
only in such bands as they could trust.
X. C. J. And did he transcribe those letters ?
Bedlow. lie did transcribe those three while
we were in his chamber.
Just. Pemberton. Was there any mention of
exciting the French king, by power, to inVade
tins kingdom ?
Bedlow. There was in the French letter to
M. La Chaise, which he transcribed too.
Langhorn. That was in French, he says.
L. C. J. I suppose you understand French
too, or else you could not do what you did.
Langhorn. I understand law French.
L. C. J. Mr. Bedlow, did you never hear
him discourse in French?
Bedlow. No, my lord.
Oates. I cannot write nor read French, but
I can translate it.
Mr. Recorder. If you have any- questions to
ask him, you may ask him.
Langhorn. How many were the letters that
ttoi I transcribed ?
Bedlow* There were three, my lord ; one
was to the English monks at Paris, another was
to M. La Chaise, anotlver to the Pope's Nuncio.
lsmghorn. Were they long or short ones ? I
ask for this reason, because I observe that 'in
the Narrative, Coleman's Letters are very long;
of u hat length might they he ?
Bedlow. They were the best part of half a
sheet of paper, for Mr/ Coleman writ a curious
line small hand, and would put a great deal of
business into a little paper ; the Pope's nuncio's
letter was very short.
L. C. J. Dtd he transcribe them all before
you went away ?
Bedlow. Whilst we walked in bis chamber,
he registered them : We took a great many
turns about in the chamber, and I saw the
papers before him, and his book.
Langhorn. Did those letters express what
the money was to be raised for, or did they
leave it to be understood ? My meaning, my
lord, of my question is this, Whether Mr. Cole-
man writ to him to hasten the money, and said
it was for such a particular use, or only in
general.
L. C. J. He hath answered it already, but
he will do it again.
Bedlow. My lord, though it was not expressed
in the letter, but only we want nothing else
from beyond sea, but your assistance ; though
it was not expressed in the letter to destroy the
king and the Protestant religion, yet the full of
the discourse betwixt Mr. Coleman and Mr.
Langhorn was to this effect : We only stay for
money, when we have got that, we will put our-
selves into a posture.
L. C. J. If you observed it, he said so be*
fore, when we asked him what the effect of
those letters was, That all things were ready,
it is a good opportunity now for the effecting of
our design, having so easy a king to deal with,
and your king having so powerful a treasury ;
do you but get the money of him, and we shall
do well enough*.
Bedlow. Though it was not specified in the
letters what the money was for, yet* in the dis-
course between Mr. Coleman and Mr. Lung-
horn it was worded so, that it was plain it was
to destroy the government, and introduce
popery.
Langhorn. My lord, ask whether this be all
that he charges upon me ?
Bedlow. I cannot say that, my lord, that this
is all I have to say against him ; things may
occur to my memory hereafter, which do not
now.
L. C. J. But at this time you remember no
more, da you ? — Bedlow. No.
Just. Atkins. But to my apprehension, what
you said last was most material, that is, the
discourse between him and Mr. Coleman, for
that rivets the whole. When he said, that if
we had but a return of this money, then we
have made ourselves Safe, or words to that ef-
fect; but it was to the full meaning of this,
that the. Protestant religion could not stand
any longer here, having assistance from France.
443] STATE TRIALS, 31 C*ajile* II. I to $.— Trial (/Richard Langhorn, [444
X. C.J. So they consulted together after
the letters were transcribed, did they ?
Bedlow. Yes, my lord,
Oate*. My lord, I omitted one thing that
was very material in my evidence, which conies
in nay mintj since* The congregation at Rome
.did contribute 800,000 crowns, to be sent into
England, and Mr. Langhorn did enquire con-
cerning ihat money, and had knowledge of the
receipt of it in France, as Mr. Langhorn did
tay, in the month of July, or August.
X. C. J. Did he say it to you ? '
QqU*. He did to Father Harcoqrt, Father
Kaines, and Father Fen wick, that there were
800,000 crowns come to France.
X. C. J. What said he then concerning the
£0p,OOO orowns ?
Pates, He gave an account of the money's
feejflg lodged at Paris.
I. C. J. You hear what he says, that you
fare an account of 800,000 crowns that were
raised abroad, that it was lodged and received
at Pari*.
. Bedlow. I recollect something mora now,
though I was not in Mr. Langhorn's chamber.
I met with Father Kaines, one day, and said
he, J must go and speak with one Mr. Lang-
horn, presently ; and when he came out again,
be brought a letter in his hand, and afterwards
we went to a tobacco-shop in Wild-street, and
there Father Kaines told me the effect of the
letter. He told toe it was a chiding letter from
the Secretary de propaganda fide, cardinal Bar-
barino, who had sent a chiding letter to Mr.
Langhorn, and the rest of the conspirators, for
going on no faster, when they had so fair an op*
port unity.
X. C. J. Did you see the letter directed to
1A r. Langhorn ?
JUdlow. Father Kaines told me the effects
*f it, and he bad the letter from Mr. Lang-
horn.
L. C. J. He told yon so ? well, but this evi-
dence is as to the plot in general, but not to
Mr. Langhorn in particular. But that which
he charges you particularly with, is this, your
transcribing (he letters, wherein there was an
expression made, of your being, all in readiness
as for arms and the garrisons; and your dis-
course afterwards with Mr. Coleman, in what
* posture all things were for the destruction of
the government, and the bringing in popery,
and there wanted nothing but money, for the
enacting the whole design. This is that he
aiys.
Langhorn, My lord, I suppose he will not
go out of the court, neither ?
X. C J. No, no, he will stay here.
Sir Cr. Levin*. My lord, there is one wit-
ness that he had not ready here, when we be-
gan to give some account of the general plot, I
{ray he may he examined ; his name is Buss.
Who was sworn.]
X C. J. What can vou say of any design
tfpon the king's life ? What is your name ?
Buts. Myname is Thomas Buss.
X. C. J. What profession are yon of?
Bus$. I serve the duke of Monmouth.
X. C. J. In what capacity do you serve
him?
Buu. I am his cook. .
X. C.J. H«»w lung have you served him?
Buss. Thirteen years I have lived with hins,
X. C. J. Weil, what is it you have to say?
Bus*. Being at Windsor, uny lord, with an
old acquaintance of mine, one Handkinson that
was then newly come from Italy
L» CL X When wa* this ?
Buss. In September last, within a week after
the duke came from Flanders, and we were
driuking together, for I had not seen him far
many years before, and there was one An-
thony was in the company, and said be, I am
newly come from Italy, and I am going again,
and I am come to take my leave ofray frienda.
When do you go away, said 1 ? { believe I ge>
to-morrow, said he ; hut pray, said be to An-
thony, have a special care of those four worthy
gentlemen. What gentlemen, said I; Four
worthy gentlemen, said he, that I brought over
with me. What, said I, from Italy? No, said
he, they are four worthy Irish gentlemen z
They are very worthy persons, said he, have
a special eare of them, for they will do our bu-
siness.
X. C. J. What said you to that?
Buss. Nothing ; for I knew nothing of it, till
I saw Coleman's trial, where it speaks of the
four Irishmen that were to kill the king a*
Windsor, then I bethought me of it.
X. C. J. Would you not ask what that busi-
ness was, or so ?
Buss. No, I did not know at that time.
X. C. J. But no man in England but would
have asked such a question.
Ban. No, he said they were strangers: but,
said I, did you bring them out of Italy ? No,
saith he, they are four Irish gentlemen that I
brought over with me, worthy persons*
X. C. 3. And what religion was he of that
said so?
Buss, He was a Catholic, one that bough*
all into a college, that did so here before he
went.
Praunce. He belonged to the Benedictine
monks, my lord, in the Savoy.
X. C. X And what was he that be spoke to ?
Buss. He was a Catholic too, he was serv
▼ant to one that that belongs to the queen%
chapel.
L. C. J. North. Did you understand wbstt
the business was they said they were to do?
Buss. Not till I read Mr. Coleman's trial,
and then I did guess these were the persons
that were to have killed the kins; at Windsor.
X, C. J. Yeu saw them not, did you ?
Buss. No ; they were in charge of this An-
thony, that is now in some place in the queen's
chapel.
Justice Atkins, Did yon speak to Anthony
to have a cave of them, or to yon ?
Buss. To Anthony,- he was the person that
was to take care of them.
X. C. J. Is Anthony a papist?
u&l
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles It. HTig.^for High Treasok.
[446
Bats. Yes, a very strong papist, and we Used
.to be often together ; but now he is jealous, and
will not come near me, to tall with me, as we
wed.
L* C. J. Now I understand the reason of it,
why he did not ask tlie question ; it wai not
likely be should, for it was not spoken to him,
bat he stood by, all the while the discourse was
to Anthony, another man, and it was to him
(hat be spoke, to have a care of 'the four Irish-
men, for they would do their business. What
did Anthony say?
Bust. lie promised he would have as much
care of them as of his own life.
L. C. J. Where is this Amh6ny to be found?
Bedlow. My lord, Anthony is a Portuguese,
and the queen's confessor's man.
L. €. J. When did you see him?
Bedlam. ' He was seen this morning, ttiey call
aim signior Antonio.
t^C. J*. North. You should hate an order
ts> take this tame Anthony into custody, but in
order to the finding him, let him go to my lord
Ossory.
L fc. Jl Mr. Tisser, we give you an order for
the taking <£ this signior Antonio, you will find
aim at Somerset- Ho use ; for the doing of this,
we do advise you to wait upon my lordOssory,
and tell him, that you have such an order, but
that out of reverence to the queen, we have
alio ordered you to wait upon him, to desire
hua to send him.
L. C. J. North. What is become of this
Bendkinson ?
Bun. He is abroad, beyond the seas, my
lord, for he said he was come hither to take
leave of his friends, and was to go the next
Burning into Surrey, and so away.
L.C. J. Well, what have you now to say,
Ur. Langhorn ?
Ltutghatn. I conceive this last witness says
nothing to me.
L. C. J. North, He speaks only to the Plot
in general, as the first witnesses did ; but that
which is upon you, is as to Mr. Oates, who
speaks to every article of the indictment ex-
pestJy ; and Mr. Bedlow says he did not only
see yoo transcribe and copy out that treasona-
ble letter, but he carried other letters to you,
which you promised to transcribe ; and these
are Overt-acts, that make you a party to the
L C. J. Besides yoor discourse with Cole-
i, after the letters were transcribed.
Langhorn. These two gentlemen were par-
ties in this supposed crime ; the two witnes-
ses which do concern me, are Mr. Oates and
Mr. Bedlow, and they both of them clearly
appear to have been in the same treason that I
•appose they charge me with; I desire to
know whether they hare had their pardon
or no?
LC.J. I believe they have. Mr. Oates
and Mr. Bedlow, have yon your pardons ?
Bedim* Yes, my lord, I have three.
Oata. I have two pardons tinder the broad-
ml, bat I don't know what » in them.
L. C. J. North. But make your objection
how you will ; whether they had, or whether
they nad not, they are witnesses.
Bedlow. i never gave any evidence, till I had
my pardon.
Langhorn. I ask for this reason ; I look
upon your lordship and the court as my coun-
sel, to udvise me in the matters of law, whe-
ther these be good witnesses, or not ?
L. C. J. We do tell yiu, that if we had not
judged them to be witnesses, we would not have
heard them.
■Langhorn. They come under the same rea-
son of law with an approver, having had their
pardon ; I don't say they are directly approvers
but I conceive they come under the same rea-
son of law with them ; and then if the ap-
prover be pardoned, by the law the appellee
ought to be discharged : and methinks by the
same reason, these men having been Participe*
CriminiSy and having got their pardons, ought
not to be such substantial witnesses agninst the
prisoner at the bar. But, my lord, I have one
thing yet further to ask, I desire to know whe-
ther they have not received any rewards or gra-
tifications, for the discovery they have made,
and the service they have done ? And whether
they do not expect further rewards ?
L. C. J. Is there any allowance to be mads)
to you ?
Dates. I have received a reward, by disburse
ing 6 or 700*. out of my pocket, and I don't
know when T shall see it again.
Justice Pemberton. Mr. Langhorn does sup*'
pose that the wituesses are corrupted and bri-
bed : Do you think, Mr. Langhorn, that the
king will bribe his witnesses?
Lang/torn. My lord, I only propose it as a
question.
L. C. J. Would yoo answer that question
yourself?
L. C. J. North. If you can suppose there
was any subornation or corruption, call your
witnesses and prove it ; but for their receiving
sustenatice and maintenance from the king,
that is but reasonable, and can be no objection.
And you yourself know, that an approver,
while he is in that service, hath a penny a day,
which in ancient times was a great matter for
livelihood and sustenance ; so that any reward
that they have, if you cannot prove it by con-
tract or subornation, you cannot make in ob-
jection.
Lanshorn. My lorcL I am informed by a pri-
soner in the Gaol, that Mr. Bedlow hath receiv-
ed 500/.
L. C. J. If you tan, prove any thing, do ;
prove what you can.
Recorder. That 506/. was about a particu-
lar fact.
L. C. J. But pray, what is his name ?
Langhorn. His name is Mr. Reading.
L. C. J. North, pe is an infamous person,
he hath stood in the pillory, we can't take him
for a witness ; but now 1 will tell you, for the
500/. it is a thing we all know of. It was a reward
fbr a particular business, not relating to the plot,
STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 (jW.— Trial <f Uickird Lang! torn, [446
was for the discovery of cbe murderers
Edmundbury* Godfrey.
tice Atkins, I think Mr. Praunce is here,
nil give an account of that, for Bedlow
rered him.
ilonr. I am so far from having any benefit
is discovery, that I am 700/. out of pocket.
tice Ellys. Ycu shall have the liberty to
what good defence you can for yourself,
rove what you ct}Q ; you must not go this
o work.
C. J. It is pretty reasonable for us to
, public satisfaction to all the world, that
> nothing under band, but that we do in
use, as in all other cases ; any thing that
0 be answered, they shall answer ; and
ance in this case something more than can
ictly required of us. It is notorious enough,
lr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow have been led
! king's charge, and it cannot be objected
>t them, and need not to be winked at,
ey were parties in the plot. And when
:ome to make the discovery, without which
ould never have known the plot, for you
it is hard to discover any crime, forgery,
like, but by one that hath been orivy to it,
i guilty person; yet these men always
been, and are in law, witnesses, and it is
ley should have a competency to main-
hem, since tbey came for the public good
ke such discoveries.
C. J. North, And that particular sum of
y was paid to Mr. Bedlow, in pursuance
i king's proclamation, which we all know;
> was all publicly done.
nghorn. The reason why I press this was,
se of the proclamation, which was to in-
srsons to come, touching the discovery of
lot ; and to encourage them to it by a
se of reward. I think it may be reason-
moogh, where any person that is charged
i crime doth absent, to propose a reward
e bringing him in. But I think it is hard,
vhtn a prisoner is in custody, witnesses
1 be brought in against him by such
s.
C-J. North. You do artificially go off
the point : answer the evidence that hath
liven against you, and you shall be beard;
)u labour very much, and trouble yourself
ke answer to another matter that is not
ent.
C. J. Does your defence consist wholly of
>rt of matter, objecting the incompetency
witnesses ? Cau v6u make no anawer to
ct?
nghorn. I must tell your lordship, my
defence must run to disable the wit-
; for, my lord, I was committed to New-
he 17th of October, and I have been kept
a close prisoner till this day was s'en-
or Friday the last week ; I never con-
. with any friend or any relation, nor
any thing of news, but only with some
arsons, sent by authority of the House of
ions, or the council. And I was never
o*d by any since I was committed. I
never heard what was charged against me, and
I could not foresee what these men could tes-
tify, becri use I was not confident whereupon*
they would proceed : therefore I can have no
defence, unless it be by lessening their credit ;
it is impossible I should.
L. C. J. Do lessen it, if you can. If you have
any witnesses to take off their credit, or con*
tradict them, call them.
Justice Atkins. But I would say one thing
to you. Mr. La nghorn, you seem to put .a
very ill construction upon the king's proclama-
tion, as if it were to invite and encourage per-
sous to come and swear about a plot, where
there was none ; it was to invite people to
make a further discovery of a plot that lay close,
and we could not fully discover, for the pre-
servation of the king and kingdom, without such
a means.
Langhorn. He did propose a reward.
Justice Atkins. . Aye, in order to a further
discovery of that plot which we had evidence of
before.
Justice Pemberton. And so you would be
close in all your accounts, and none should be
rewarded that could make us any discovery of
them, but presently their testimony must be
gone. It is very fine ! But the Court over*
rules it.
, L. C. J. Mr. Langhorn, whatsoever you ob-
ject of this kind, does fly in the face and reflect
upon the integrity and wisdom of King, Lords,
and Commons.
L. C. J. North. For it was done by the ad-
vice of all three.
L. C. J. If you will go on, and prove any
thing, but pray don't speud our time to no par-
pose.
Langhorn. Call Parrey, and Townley, and
Doddington, and the rest.
Oates. My lord, here are papists come into
the Court with their swords on.
L. C. J. Tbey will not draw them here.
Lord Mayor, It is well enough, it is well
enough ; Dr. Oates, you are safe enough here.
L. C. J. Who will you have, first ?
Langhorn. I would have Hilsley set up.
[Which was done.]
L. C. J. What would yoo ask him?
Langhorn. Your lordship hath heard Dr.
Oates affirm he came over, such a time, in the
pacquct-boat with Mr. Hilsley ; I desire te>
know whether that be true or no !
L. C. J. I can help you iu that, for we liaxi
him and his companions here yesterday ; but,
however, we will hear them again, if you will
have them. Do you know Mr. Oates?
Hilsley. I do, my lord, very well. '
L. C. J. When did you come over from Su
Omers ?
Hilsley. I came over the 24th of April, New
Stile.
L. C. J. Did Mr. Oates come with you ?
Hilsley. No, he did not.
Oates. No, my lord, be did leave me there,
but I overtook him at Calais.
L. C. J. Look you there now, you did leave
3
4
H
1
I
»
I
i
449]
STATE TRIALS, 51 Cbahles II. 1619.—M High Treason.
[iSQ
him there, but he overtook you at Calais. Did
jou leave him there ?
HiisJcy. I did leave him there.
L. C. J. Ay, but he overtook you, then, did
he not 9—Hthley. No, lie did not.
X. C. J. He answers as he did yesterday,
that he did not cvroe over with him. You lost
your money, did you not ?
HUslty. Yes, I did.
L. C. J. How did you lose it? Did you Jose
k at play ?
Hilsley. It is no matter how I lost it ; I did
not lose it at play.
Oates. I will tell the Court, if your lord-
ship please, bow he lost it ; he lent a great
deal of money to a gentleman, who went away
with his money, and left him to pay the reckon-
X. C. J. What say you to that ?
Hilsley. That is very true, and I confess it ;
but what is all this ? nothing to the matter.
He was told this by somebody else. I never
saw hiin, nor ever any man in the ship saw him
come over with me.
L. C. J. I will tell you what, then ; first,
here is something now that you would not con-
fess yesterday, nor indeed would you confess it
now. I asked you how you lost your money ;
you see Mr.* Oates can tell you how it was, tho'
you won't tell us ; so that, though this be a
secret, he knows it ; and how could he know
this secret, unless he were there ? •
Hilsley. There is one that I met by the way,
that did tell him this story.
Then one Giffbrd stood up.
JL C. J. Did you see Mr. Oates ?
Giffbrd. Yes, my Lord.
JL C. J. What discourse had you with him
concerning Hilsley ?
GtffbnL Why, he told us of his departure.
L.C.J. When?
Giffbrd, After he was gone away.
X. C. J. How long after ?
Giffbrd. Three or lour days.
X. C. J. What said he to you ?
Giffbrd. He only told us he was gone.
X. C. X What else said you of him ?
Giffbrd. He only said he departed out of the
college then.
L C. J. What did you say to Mr. Oates
about it?
Giffbrd. I don't remember what I said in
particular.
JL C. J. Hilsley, call up the other person
that you say told Mr. Oates.
Bilslcy. lie is not here, my Lord, but here
is one ihat was in the company when he told it.
L.C.J. Who was by?
Giffbrd. Mr. Burn a by, who came thither the
1st of May.
X. C. J. Hearken to me : when you talked
with Mr. Oates concerning Mr, Hilsley's being
{one from the college, wfe there any body by ?
Giffbrd: I cannot tell,
L. C. J. Was Mr. Burnaby by, when Mr,
Oates and you talked about Mr. Hilsley ?
YOU yu.
Then another Witness started up,
3d Witness. Yes, roy Lord, there was Mr.
Oates with me, and Mr. Burnaby put himself
into our company in the garden, aitd he ac-
quainted me with this story.
X. C. J. What said he ?
3d Witness. He said he met this gentleman,
and that this gentleman was cheated of bis
money.
X. C. J. How did he tell you he was cheated?
3d Witness. I don't know the occasion, but
he said a fellow cheated him of the money.
X. C. J. Was that all he said ?
3d Witness. Yes, roy Lord, but I do not re-
member upon what occasion; he said he was
cheated by a shirking fellow.
X. C J. Did be name the place he met him
st?
3d Witness. I don't know, my Lord, whether
he mentioned it or no.
X. C. J. So that Mr. Oates names the place
which he was never told ; and unless he was
there, how could he then tell it ?
3d Witness. But this does not prove that t
speak against my conscience, that does not ar-
gue.
X. C. J. Look you, the answer is this, Mr.
Langhorn. - You would charge Mr. Oates with
falsity in saying be came over in the pacquet*
boat with Hilsley ; and you call up him, and
he says, he did not come, but he left him at St.
Omens; Mr. Oates comes and says, it is true
he left me there but I overtook him at Calais;
by this very token, said he, vou were cheated
of jroor money, by a person that you lent it to
who went away, and left you to pay the reckon*
ing. When I asked Mr. Hilsley , how he could
tell if it were true (hat he was not with him, be
answered, he was told it by another ; but when
I come to know what that other person said it
was no more than this; he said, m MJPOatet'a
hearing, Mr. Hilsley was cozened of his money,
but did not say how, nor by whom nor where.
Langhorn. Now, to prove thot what Mr.
Hilsley said is true, and thftt therefore Mr. Oates
bis knowledge must come by another hand, I
desire that the witnesses may be asked, how
lone Mr. Oates was at St. Omers ?
X. C. J. How long was Mr. Oates at St.
Omers?
3d Witness. From December till June, he
was there, except one particular day that he
went to Watton.
X. C. J. And you saw him almost every
day?
3d Witness. Yes, I did.
X. C. J. You have fifteen or sixteen witnesses
that will say all this; but yet, if you will, we
will call them.
X. C. J. When he went away, do you kndrr
that?
3d Witness. He went in June, I cannot cer-
tainly say the day.
JL C. J. Well,' call another.
3d Witness. Pray, my lord, let me speak, if
your lordship please to let me give you my
2G
451]' STATE TRIALS, 51 Cham*s II. 1070.— Trud of Richard bmghvrn, £±5«
reason, why I might see htm ; I saw him in the
refectory; he had a little table by himself,
distinct from the rest, and dining together in a
public place, it was impossible but we should
tee his place empty, if he were gone ; and I
know the number of my own school, and can
tell whether any one be absent.
X. C. J. What, because he sat at table by
himself, therefore you think he was' there all the
while ?
3d Witness. Certainly, if I may beliere mine
own eyes, I saw him there every day.
L. &. Baron. Were you there every day
yourself?
• 3d Witness. Yes, my lord, I was, I did not
miss one day, I had no infirmity.
Langhvrn. My lord, Mr. Oates hath affirm-
ed that there was with him, when he came
over in April, sir Robert Brett.
L. C. J. He says only he believes so ; he
•ays positively, he came over in the company
of sir John Warner, sir Thomas Preston, and
Jie thinks also sir Robert Brett, but is not
positive,
Langhorn. This he affirmed both in his Nar-
rative, and upon oath in the Lords* House.
X. C. J. Shew any thing that he was sworn
to here.
Justice Atkins. But what says this lad more ?
Let him speak, for he is very full of it.
Si Witness. The 1st day of May I saw him
in the garden, with a lay-brother, at kittle-
pins, in the view of all the college.
Langhorn. Let us examine him as to per-
sons, and then refer it to the Lords* Register.
X. C. J. Why, if you will prove something
Mr. Oates hatb sworn there, tnat you can con-
tradict, first prove what he swore, and then
Contradict it.
Justice Pemberton. Pray take notice, you
must not go oppose him in any thing of that
bath, unless he nath sworn it here; whatsoever
there be there, except he bath sworn the same
here, it is in vain to object it, for he cannot
be intended to have witness to make good what
he swore there.
Sir Cr, Levins. Let us hear what he does
offer.
Langhorn. Under favour, Mr. Oates hath
acknowledged what he swore there was true.
L. C. J. You are mistaken, Mr. Langhorn ;
indeed when you asked him that question, he
said, as far as what - concerned what he swore
here, was true, and he is bound at this time to
answer no more.
Langhorn. Then aaob sir Joly^Varner, I
desire my witnesses may be examined. '
L. C.J.' I suppose they may be here, and
say the same they did yesterday ; that he did
not stir from his house at Watton all April and
May.
4th Witness. Yes, my lord, he lived there
all that while.
L.C.J. What year?
4th Witness. In the year 1678.
L. C. J. That is the time that Mr. Oates
says he came over with him. You saw him
almost every day, did not you ?
4th Witness. Yes, I did, only four days that
I was absent, being sent by him to St. Omers,
at a great feast.
L. C. J. And when you came back, you
found him there ?
4th Witness. Yes, I did.
L. C. J. You are his gardener, are you not f
4th Witness. Yes, 1 am.
L. C. J. Did you stay all those four days at
St. Omers ?
4th Witness. I was sent to the High Kirk,
and carried some instruments for the music,
and there I staid four days, and the last day of
April, and the first, and second, and third, of
May. And I saw Mr. Oates there in the house,
and I saw him 'going into the refectory to dinner.
L. C. J. He says, that sir John Warner was
at home all April and May, that he himself was
absent but four days, that he left him there, and
when he came back found him there; and that
in the four days he was at St. Omers, he saw
Mr. Oates, which was the last of April, the first,
second, and third of May. You do not know
when Mr. Oates went away ?
4th Witness. No, my lord, not I.
Justice Pemberton. Was sir John Warner
there all June ?
4th Witness. My lord, I cannot tell that, I
only speak to April and May.
L. C. J. Those are two months that fit him.
Justice Pemberton. Why, how came you not
to remember that, as well as the other two, for
that is since?
4th Witness. Because I took not so much
notice of him in those times.
X. C. /. How came you to take more special
notice of them two months, than of the other r
4th Witness. Because our rector did then
come into England, and he took the charge of
the house upon him in the rector's absence.
X. C. J. When did he come ?
4th Witness. He came the 84th of April.
Justice Dolben. Pray who is your rector ?
What is his name ?
4th Witness. Sir Francis Williams.
X. C. J. Where was sir John Warner in Jane
and July?
4th witness. I cannot tell.
Justice Pemberton. And where was he in
August and September ?
4th Witness. He went out of town, tyit
where I am not certain.
X. C. J. You were gardener there theu ?
4th Witness. Yes, I was.
X. C. J. Why cannot you as well tell roe,
then, where he was in June and July, as in April
and May ? Answer me plainly.
4th Witness. I think he was there all that
time, but I cannot be certain.
X. C. J. Why not so certain for those two
months, as you are for the other?
4th Witness. Because I did not take so much
notice.
X. C. J. How came you to take more no-
tice of the one than the other ? that he was
there in April and May, rather than that lie
tvas there in July?
453]
STATE TRIALS, 51 Cmaklu IL l6W<-/<<r High Treason.
[45*
4ikJVUness, Because the question, my lord,
that I came for, did not fall upon that time.
JL C. J. Now be bath answered plainly ;
when I asked the question, Why he did not take
so much notice of those montns, as he did of
April and May ? he answered ine, Because the
question did opt rail upon those months ; and
that, without all question, is a plain and an ho-
nest answer.
Justice Dolbcn* Indeed he bath forgot his
lesson ; you should have given him better in-
structions.
L. C. J. Look yeu, Mr. Langhorn, if he be
to be believed, and that he doth not speak false-
ly, or more than he knows, it is impossible that
Gates's testimony and his can stand together ;
for be directly affirms, he saw Mr. Oates the last
of April, the 1st, 2nd, and 3nj of May. Now
Mr. Oates says he was here then ; so these two
cannot stand together. The question then is,
Whether he be to be believed ? and, Whether
be does not come wilfully or prepared ? The
Jury have heard what a kind of testimony he
gives, when the question was asked him, How
he came to take notice of the months of April
and May, more than of June and July ? and
why he was more sure sir John Warner was
there at the onetime, than at the other? Why,
said he, because the question falls upon those
former months, and not upon those of June or
July. Now that does shake all that was said
before, and looks as if he came on purpose,
and prepared for those months < and now this,
I am afraid, will go through all your St. Omers
men.
L. C. J. North. Indeed, I doubt it will go a
great way to shake all their testimony.
Sir Cr. Levinz. You, gardener, what do you
say wasyour rector's name ?
44 h Witness. Sir Francis Williams.
Sir Cr. Levin*. And he came over in April
or May, did he ?
4th Witness. He came over the 24th of April.
Sir Cr. Levins. Why, that is the time that
Mr, Oates came over, and be was one of the
parsons that he said came over with him.
4th Witness. No, he came alone, only with a
certain officer of the college.
Langhorn. Pray let Gifford be asked the
same question about sir John Warner ; for if
be did come, as he saith, from Watton to St.
Oaiers at that time, he must see him at St.
Omers, for be was at St. Omers then. The
qaestion is about sir John Warner; if he were
at Watton, or St. Omers, then he conld not
come over with Mr. Oates.
JL C. J. When did you see sir John Warner ?
Gifford. I saw him about June, or there-
abouts.
JL C. J. Where did you see him f
Gifford. I saw him there in St. Omers house.
JL C.J. When?
Gifford. In June or July, when he invited
at over to Watton*
L. C. J. This man does not serve the turn,
be does not know the month upon which the
fueation runs..
5th tTfrftett. The 1st of March there was a
great feast, St. Fortuoatus and Gordianus, and
then I saw Mr. Oates 4 days, and he was there
all the month of May.
L. C. J. Where was sir John Warner then ?
5tb Witness. I cannot tell ; but at St. Omers
I saw Mr. Poole and sir Robert Brett at that
time.
L. C. J. Did Mr. Poole come over with you ?
Oates. Yes, my Lord, he did.
JL C J. Witness, when did Mr. Poole come
over from St. Omers ?
5th Witness. He came first to St Omers
with Mr. Whitebread, be was my master of
music, and be taught me, and it was impost
sible he should be missing without my know-
ledge.
X. C. J. But he was gone to England long
before that ; and he could not be at England
and at St. Omers at the same time.
5th Witness. You say right, he could not.
L. C. J. When came he from St. Omers ?
5tb Witness. In the month of June, or May.
L. C. /. Cr April ?
5th Witness. No, it was the month of June.
L. C. J. These are but collateral matters, Mr.
Langhorn ; for you to stand upon this, it spends
time to no purpose; but the great question is,
friend, whether you do not mistake the month t
5th Witness. Yes, yes (at which the people
laughed) ; no, no, I do not mistake the month,
I only speak the truth according to my know*
ledge.
L. C. J. How can you so precisely remem-
ber the month of May he was there ; for
when I asked you when he went away, you
could hardly tell the month.
5tb Witness. Yes, my Lord, Mr. Oates says,
in the month of May he was in England ; bujt
I say I saw Mr. Poole then at St. Omers.
L. C. J. But the great question is, Whether
you are to be believed ? We know you an-
swer the question positively ; but my reason
why I fear you are not to be believed, is, be-
cause you are so precise that Mr. Poole taught
you all May ; but I ask yon once more, was it
in June, or was it in May ?
5th Witness. It was about June.
JL. C. J. May is about June. Why, then,
you cannot tell. Was it in June ?
5th Witness. Yes, my Lord, it was ; it was
about June. And this is nothing but what I
know ; for I actually saw Mr. Oates there at
that time. •
L. C. J. I will tell you what, Mr. Langhorn,
use your discretion, call whom you will, and we
will bear them as long as you will ; but we had
16 of them yesterday, that did all speak to the
same purpose ; but m answer to these 16 wit-
nesses, Mr% Oates did produce, and he will pro-
duce again, six or seven witnesses, and one of
them a papist, if not a priest, who do swear,
that Mr. Oates was here in April and May ;
I will tell you beforehand, do as you will.
Then one Bailie stood up, and being * foreigner,
an Interpreter was called.
455J STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles IL Id7fc— Trial of Richard Langhorn, [450
X. C. J. Where did you see sir John Warner
in April and May ?
Interpreter. He says he saw him actually at
St. 'Omers.
X. C. J. What, all the month of May ?
Interpreter. Yes, he says he conversed with
biin all the month of May. -
X. C. J. And was he there all April, and
convened with him then ?
Interpreter. Yes, he says every day, of both
months. He says he saw biin from the first
Sunday in April to the 14th of May, and con-
versed with him.
X. C. J. Where did sir Johu Warner go
the 14th of May ?
Interpreter, fly Lord, he says he went for
one day only to St. Omers, and came back again.
X. C. J. Ask him how he knows this ?
Interpreter. He says he was employed about
a building by sir John Warner.
Then Carpcnteir stood up.
X. C. J. When did you see Mr. Oates, and
where ?
Carpenteir. I speak as to sir Tho. Preston.
X. C. J. What say you as to sir Thomas
Preston ?
Carpenteir. I saw him at Liege.
X. C. J. When ?
Carpenteir. AH the months of M*rch, April,
May and June, he was still there.
X. C. J. When went he away ?
Carpenteir. In the time of the vacancies.
X. C.J. When is that?
Carpenteir. That is from the beginning of
August till the end of September.
X. C. J. When came be again ?
Carpenteir. When they came to school
•sain, and that was on the second or third of
October.
Justice Dolben* Were you with him all that
time?
Carpenteir. Yes, I was : Ho hath not been
in England these three yea/s.
X. C. J. Ho«r long have you been there ?
Carpenteir. I have been there four years,
and I never knew that he was absent, but in the
time of the vacancies.
Justice Pemberton. Call another witness.
Then stood up another witness, who being
a Dutchman, and not speaking English, an in-
terpreter was called for him also.
X. C.J. Well, what comes he for?
Interpreter. He says he comes to testify,
That sir John Warner was at Watton in April,
and he says he saw him there from the 14tb
Co the 25th of April.
X. C. J. And then to what time ?
Interpreter. He says he was there till the
16th of May;
Justice Pemberton. Ask him where he was
the beginning of April ?
Interpreter. He says be was superior there
jn the house, anci did govern.
X. C. J. Ask him where he was the hitter
endofMajr?
Interpreter. He says he was likewise in the
house, save only one day, that he went to 8t.
Omers.
X. C. J. Then he might have said, in short,
he was there all April and May.
Justice Pemberton. Call another witness.
Langhorn. Call John Joseph. [Who stood
up.]
Justice Pemberton. What do you ask him,
Mr. Langhorn ?
Joseph. That which I say is this, That sir
Thomas Preston was at Liege in March, April,
May, and June, 1678.
X. C. J. Did you see him every day in those
months ?
Joseph^ That I cannot well tell.
X. C. J. Did you see him every other day ?
Joseph) Yes, my. lord, I believe I did once in
two or three days.
X. C. J. Where was he in July ? *
Joseph. He was at Liege too: He was
obliged to be so ; but in the time of the vacan-
cies in August, he was absent.
X. C. J. Then you say he was all those
months, March, April, May, June, and July,
there?
Joseph. Yes, my lord, those four months I
am sure of it.
X. C. J. What became of him in August,
when he went during the vacancies abroad ?
Do you know whither he went ?
Sh- Cr. Levinz. po you know whether be
went into England ?
Joseph. I never heard that he was in Eng-
land.
X- C. ,J When did be return again ?
Joseph. When they began school, and that it
in the beginning of October.
Then another Witness stood op.
X. C. J. Well, what say you ?
10th Witness. I can say that Mr. Oates
never stirred out of the college "at that time
when he says he came to England ; that is, he
says he came upon Monday the 25th of April ;
but he did not, for that day he went into the
infirmary, and he stayed at St. Omers all April
and May.
X. C. J. And how much longer ?
10th Witness. A great part of June.
X. C. J. Was he there the SOtbjof June?
10th Witness. I am sure be was, but how
much, longer I cannot tell.
X. C.J. Where was he in February and
March ?
10th Witness. He was there too ; in January
he lay out one night, and that was at Watton,
but I am sure he did not come over the 24th of
April, New Stile, as he says.
Recorder. Now he says, it is New Stile, not
Old Stile, as he said yesterday.
Thin another Witness stood up.
"X. C. J. Well, what do you say ?
11th Witness. Mr. Poole was sick, and I
can remember when his nephew went to him
into the infirmary, before he went away from
457]
STATE TRIALS, SI Ourles II. 1679.— /or High Treason.
[45S
the college, and he gave him good counsel, as
he said, and I remember that Mr. Brett was
sick at Watton, and did come home again on
horseback, and I believe he did not stir out ;
and Mr. Poole was at St. Omers, I am sure
I saw him once in two or three days all April
and May. He went by the name of Killing-
beck.
JL C. J. But he does not positively say he
saw sir Robert Brett every day there ; he says
he believes he did.
11th Witness. He came into the school,
and gave the boys questions to dispute of.
Mr. Recorder. Call the rest of your w it n esse*.
Then another Witness was called and stood up.
L. C. J. North. When did yon see Mr.
Oates at St. Omers ?
19th Witness. I saw him almost every other
day from the time he came till he went away.
JL C. J. When was the first time yon saw
him ?
12th Witness. The beginning of December.
JL C. J. Did you see him in April there ?
12th Witness. Yes, I saw him in April there
at an action.
L. C. J. And did yon see him in May there ?
12th Witness. Yes I can testify I saw him
the first day of May in the garden.
X. C. J. How long stayed he there ?
13th Witness. Till June.
JL C. J. How came you to take such pre-
cise notice?
12th Witness. By his very place I could not
but take notice if he were missing.
L.C.-J. How can you say you saw him in
the garden the 1st of May ?
12th Witness. I will tell your lordship why,
because there was a great feast and he plaid at
nine pins in the garden, and I can tell what
they played for.
JL C. J. What say you as to Mr. Nevil, and
sir Robert Brett's being at St. Omers?
12th Witness. I did not take so much no-
tice of sir Robert Brett ; as lor Nevil I think
I saw him once in three days.
Justice Pemberton. And there is nothing
said of him here.
Then another Witness stood up.
L, C. J. When did yon see Mr. Oates first at
%L Omers ?
13th Witness. I first saw him in the month
•fDecember.
L. C. J. Did you see him in April and May ?
13th Witness. Yes, my* lord/ 1 did.
JL C. J._ Was he there all those months ?
13th Witness. Yes, my lord, he was.
L. C. J. North. Was he there all the month
of Jane ? '
13th Witness. He went away towards the lat-
ter end of June.
L. C. J. North. Yesterday' you said the lat-
ter end of July. Call another witness.
Then another Witness stood up.
L. C J. North. Come, you hear the question;
did you see Mr. Oates at St Omers, in the
month of April ?
14th Witness. Yes, my lord, he was there all
the month of April.
L. C. J. Was he there all the month of
May?
14th Witness. Yes, my lord, be was.
Justice Pemberton. And a good part of June.
14th Witness. Yes, my lord.
Langhorn. What do you say as to Mr*
Poole ?
14th Witness. I saw Mr. Poole in the infir-
mary the third day of May.
L. C. J. North. How came you to take no-
tice of it, so well as to remember it, .that it was
the third of May ?.
14tb Witness. It was a festival day. And
the feast we kept was the invention of the Holy
Cross. We -had the action the day before and
some that were in the infirmary would have it
acted over again to them, and we did so. My
.Lord, within one or two days after Mr. Hilsley
went away, I discoursed with Mr. Oates, about
half an hour ; be came out within a day or
two after out of the infirmary, and I saw him
walking in the gallery. And again the 2d of
May I saw him walking with one Mr. Bumaby,
who arrived the day before, the first of May,
and then I saw him the 3d, 4tb and 5th, in
thfs Burnaby's company ; I saw him again, the
26th of May, with a band about his head in
order to confirmation, for they always have a
linen cloth bound about their head at such a
time.
Li C. J. Call another. Who stood up, his
uame was ••**.
L. C. J. What can you say ?
****. All that I can say is this, that between
the said month of December 1677, and June
1678, which is the time in question, Mr. Oates
was never out of the college above one night,
when he went to Watton in January ; and this v
is certain, that from the time I saw him first,
till the time he went away for altogether, there
were not two days that passed away, wherein
I did not see him, except in the month of
March, and when he was in the infirmary the
24th of April, but then I heard that he was
there
L. C. J. Who did tell you so ?
****. The man that keeps that part of the
house ; and coming into my office after my re-
covery out of a fit of sickness a week before
Christmas or thereabouts, I saw Mr. Oates by
this circumstance, the servitors of the house
said they were glad to see me, and Mr. Oates
being in the place at the refectory that was
assigned to him, I asked who he was, and they
told me such a one ; but I had heard of his
admission a few days before. Likewise Mr.
Oates was there when Mr. Hilsley came from
England, which was about the 24th of April,
by this circumstance, that he was present in
the refectory with some of the scholars. M/.
Richard Burnaby came to the college about a
week after Mr. Hilsley went away, and Mr.
Oates was actually there then, -and we did very
459] STATE TRIAL?, 31 Charles II. 107fc— Trial <tf Richard Langhom, [400
I a V_ a 1 1 * S * 1 V j a f T 1 ** ^^av_ a. L
much, wouder that he became acquainted with
him s6 quickly after his arrival. 1 say Mr.
Oates was actually there when Mr. Killinbeck
and Mr. Conquest came for England about the
3d of May, by this circumstance, that I had
some discourse with Mr. Oates, and some others
of the scholars, that Mr. Conquest would by no
means get out of his bed betimes that day he
was to go away, being unwilling to leave the
college. He was there the 26th of May by
this circumstance, that the bishop dined there
that day, and Mr. Oates was there confirmed
that day. Mr. Oates was there also in June,
my lord.
X. C. J. Yes, he was there in June, he does
not deny it.
Mr. Justice Pemberton. And was he there
all May?
••*•. Yes, my lord, he was, and all April*
except the time he was in the infirmary, which
was three or four days.
Langhom. ■ What do you say as to Poole and
Nevil r
•*•*. They were there all the whole time in
question, and they were never absent any com-
petent time to come to England, as he says.
L. C. J. North. We must not allow that,
yon must tell us what time they were there,
that we may know it.
****. They were there in March, April,
May, June and July.
X. C. J. But did you see him every day
from the beginning of Christmas, to the time
he went away in June ?
**** Yes, except the time he was at Watton,
and when he was in the Infirmary.
Recorder. But was not Mr. Oates twice in
the Infirmary ? -
****. He was I remember there on St. Tho-
mas of Canterbury's day, and I remember he
was there in April.
Sir Cr. Levinz. I did hear you say something
of somebody that was absent five or six days,
was it you ? .
****. I was sick in the month of March, and
I was in the Infirmary till about the 12th or
14th day.
Sir (fr. Levins. And did yoo see him there
all that time?
****. I excepted that time, but I heard his
voice once in that time, in the next room- to
the Infirmary, where I was, by this circum-
stance, he used to come to a table by himself,
and it was near the door, and Nevil and Poole
were there, as I said before.
Recorder. He speaks much more to the pur-
pose to day, Mr. Langhom, than he did yes-
terday.
L. C. J. North. And much louder.
Langhom. I hope your lordship will take
notice that he speaks likewise of the residence
of Mr. Poole, sir Robert Brett, and Mr. Nevil.
X. C. J. Yes, I do : Call another witness.
Who stood up, and being a Foreigner, his Evi-
dence was likewise interpreted.
L. C. J. AskJum what he says*
Interpreter. He says he saw Mr. Oates, he
was there, and he remembers it till about the
25th of June.
X. C. J. Where did he see him ?
Interpreter. He says it was either in the
house, or in the garden.
L. C. J. North. When was that, that be was
in the Infirmary ?
Interpreter. He says, he was in the Infirmary
towards the latter end of December, or the
beginning of January.
X. C. J. Ask him what he says about Nevil
and Poole.
Interpreter. He says they were there all
June, and that Mr. Poole went away in the,
niontbof July ; and he further says, that he
being a waterman, he carried this same Wil-
liams and March in his boat the last Sunday in
April.
L. C. J. North. Who is your next, Mr.
Laughorn ? Let him stand up. (Which he did.)
When did you see Mr. Oates at St. Omers ?
16th Witness. In the month of April, 1678.
X. C. J. And in May too was he ?
16th Witness. Yes, he was.
X. C. J. Was Mr. Poole there all that time t
16th Witness. Yes, he was ; and so was Mr.
Nevil and Mr. Brett.
X. C. J. Where is Nevil now ?
16th Witness. I believe I left him there.
X. C. J. What are these persons ?
16th Witness. The one is a prefect, and I
believe he is there still. In the month of May
I made Mr. Killinbeck a suit of clothes, and
Mr. Oates came into the shop, and asked me
whose clothes they were ? I said Mr. Killin-
beck's ; said he, How can that be ? they are
black : said I, they must be black, for he is in
mourning.
Langhom. Here is Mr. Grove's wife and his
maid.
Then Mrs. Grove stood up.
X. C. J. What question would you ask of
her? -
Langhom. Mr. Oates hath sworn, and
given us several circumstances of his coming
over, and being here at that which he calls the
consult, and that he lay at Mr. Grove's three or
four nights ; I desire she may be asked that
question, whether he did so or no ?
X. C. J. Do you know Mr. Oates, Mr*,
Grove ?
Grove. No, I never saw him.
X. C. J. Were there any lodgers lay at your
house in April was twelvemonth ?
Grove. Yes, my lord, there were.
X. C. J. Do you, use to have lodgers that yoo
do not know ?
Grove. My house was full of lodgers at
that time. I did net know them till they lay
there.
Sir Cr. Ltumz* Why then, Mr. Oates might
be there, and you not know him.
Grove. If he lay there, I must needs knowr
him.
JL C~J+ Why might not a man lie with aay
461]
STATO TRIALS, 51 CaAKits II. 1079.— /or High Treason.
[4GS
of your lodgers three or four nights, and yen not
know him ?
Grove. Who should be lie withal, my lord ?
Oates. I had a bed to myself when I lay
there.
X. C J. Mr. Oates, describe the chamber as
well as you can.
Oates. It was a place taken out of another
room, where two men were taken out that were
committed to prison.
X. C. J. Were there any persons taken out
of your house, and sent to prison ?
Grove. Yes, my lord, there were.
L. C. J. In that very room he lay, out of
which those persons were taken.
Grove. He did not.
Oates. Upon my oath, I did lie there three or
four nights, more or less.
Sir Cr. Levins. You were in a disguise,
Sir, at that time, were you not, and went by
another name, and so the woman might not
know you ?
Oates. Yes, I did so.
X. C. J. You cannot make any great matter
of this ; she had some lodgers, and she knew
them, but he went by a wrong name,, and was
ii a disguise.
Langhorn. Mrs. Grove says, she knew all the
lodgers that then lay there ; pray ask her if she
did not ?
X. C. J. Do you remember who lodged in
your house in April was a twelvemonth ?
Grove. Yes, I do.
L. C. J. Name them.
Grove. Why, there was one pair of stairs,
one Mr. Strange by name, and one Mrs. Fitz-
berbert, and above there lay my sister.
X. C. J. What, all the months of May and
April ? — Grote. Yes.
JL C. J. And not in June r
Grove. I am not demanded of June ?
X. C. J. She answers exactly to them two
months, what say you to March ?
Grove. They were there in March.
X. C. J. Who lay in the room from whence
the men were taken that were carried to pri-
son ?
Grove. There was one Master Crupper, and
mother yoong man that lay with him.
L. C. J. Why might not that be Mr. Oates ?
Grove. He was one that was a prisoner by
Mr. Oates's order. And Mrs. Fitzherbert lay
there.
X. C. J. What, in that room whence the
young men were taken out in April or May ?
Grove. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Well, what say you to the other
months, March, and June and July?
Grove. I was not to be examined further
than the two months I spoke of before.
L. C. J. Look you, she says, that for April
•nd May two gentlemen had the lodging that
Mr. Oates says he lay fn ; but for any olher
time she was not to be examined. Weil, have
you any more witnesses ?
Langhorn. Here is Mrs. Grove's maid. [Who
*ood op.]
X. C. J. Maid, can you tell who lay in
Grove's house, in April and May was twelve-
month ? — Maid. Yes, my lord, I can.
X. C. J. Who were they ?
Maid. There was my mistress's brother and
sister lay there.
Justice Pemberton. Do you know them all ?
what men lay there ?
Maid. None but Master Strange, my lord.
X. C. J. Mrs. Grove said, that her house wa»
full.
Maid. Indeed, my lord, there was her
brother, Mr. York, and his wife.
X. C. J. But who id that Fitzherbert ?
Maid. She is a gentlewoman.
X. C. J. Who lay there iu March ? and who
lav there in July ?
Maid. Master Strange and Mrs. Fitzherbert.
X. C. J. How long did they lie there ?
Maid. In April, May, June, July and Au-
gust.
X. C. J. She says they lay there in March,
April, May, June, July and August, and her
mistress said, they were there but a quarter of a
year, only she said she was to be examined no
further.
Langhorn. My lord, I desire to prove a copy
of the Record in the Lords' House.
L. C. J. That is not to be given in evidence
here.
Recorder. You know how far such a thing
will be evidence, manage your own evidence
well.
Langhorn. It is an extract nut of the Journal
of the House of Lords.
L. C. J. What particular do . you pitch
upon ?
Langhorn. About those persons, who, he
says, came over with him from St. Omers.
L. C. J. North. Do you think it reasonable,
that any man should come to answer now, all
that ever he hach sworn in his life r If you caa
shew any Record to contradict what he hath
sworn here, shew it. Do you think he caa
come prepared to justify all he Cath sworn ink
any other place ?
Langhorn. He referred to that himself.
X. C. J. No, he does not.
Langhorn. But he hath said over and over,,
that sir John Warner came over with him., sir
Thomas Preston, and Poole.
L. C. J. What should you urge that book
for? Can you make any other proof?
Langhorn. I would have the persons called
that took the Narrative of Ireland's Trial.
L. C. J. If you have any more witnesses,
call them.
Langhorn. Won't your lordship allow me to
prove by witnesses, what he affirmed, in relation
to me, at another trial ?
X. C. J. By no means, you must nQt meddle
with that.
Langhorn. Pray, my lord, why not? I will
prove the words spoken by a witness.
L. C. J. North. You must not; that is no
evidence against you, nor can it be an evtdeftce
for you.
463] STATE TRIALS/ 31 Charles II. 1679 — Trial of Richard Langhorn, [4C4
Witness. I kept it seven year* before, till
July last.
Langhorn. I would know of him, how many
might be there at that time.
L. C. J. What number of persons do you
say met at that consult ?
Oates. That question, if it please your lord-
ship, hath no reference to this trial, neither is it
at all material ; but because I have given die
prisoners so much freedom, they impose upon
me with questions. .
L. C. J. It is a question they cannot expect
a precise answer to from you; but yet 1 .would
have you give them as satisfactory an answer as
you can, what number there might be there at
n. time.
Oates. My lord, I think there might he at the
White-horse tavern, at a time, about 18 or SO.
L. C. J. Were they in one room, or in se-
veral rooms ?
Gates. They were in two or three rooms.
Wit nets. Is this Mr. Oates, my lord?
L. C. J. Yes, that be is.
Witness. I never saw him in my bouse ia
my life.
L. C. J. Was there nobody never in your
tavern, but who you knew? What! can you
tell all the people that were ever in your tavern ?
Witness. The most of my company were
people that I knew.
L. C. J. , What is your company ?
Witneis. Those that frequented my bouse. ,
L. C. J. Can you say who was in your house,
April .24, 1678?
Witness. ■ No, my lord, I will not undertake
that, but I will give you as true an account ma
1 can.
Langhorn. I will tell you why I ask this
question. Mr. Oates did say, in his depositions
before the Lords, there met fifty.
L. C. J. At several times in the day.
Langhorn. But this must all be in the morn-
ing.
L. C. J. Why so ? Suppose there met, of
that company, 20 in the morning, and then
some went away and others came in their room,
and so they did » for divers times in the day, is
not this properly said of me, that there might
be about 50 at that consult ?
Langhorn. He saith, in Coleman's trial, there
met fifty, upon the 24th of April, and afterwards
they adjourned into lesser colloquies.
Oates. I say, they met there the 24th day,
but the consult was not dissolved till the 26th
day at night.
L. C. J. North. You must go only upon what
is sworn now. And we ask the question, upou
your proposal, How many were there at a time?
and he says about 18 or 20 at a time. Now if
he proves there were 18 at one time, twenty
at another time, and ten at another, that makes
about fifty.
L. C. J. Good woman, is your bouse a little
house ?
Witness. It is a small inconsiderable bouse,
there is not a room in it that will hold above
a dozen. I never remembered so great a com*
4
Langhorn. Then you take off the defence
that I have, and make it as if 1 had never, any.
Justice Atkins. That is not evidence in a
civil cause, and therefore must not be evidence
here.
Then came in my Lord of Castlemain.
L. C. J. What do you come for, sir ? What
is your name ?
E. Castlemain. My name is Castlemain.
L. C. J. Are you my lord of Castlemain ?
E. Castlemain. Yes, my 'lord, I -am.
L. C. J. Does your lordship come as a wit-
ness for Mr. Langhorn ? Mr. Langhorn, do you
call my lord of Castlemain ?
Langhorn. My lord, I do not know what he
comes for, whether, he comes for me, or not ;
perhaps he may.
E. Castlemain. My lord, I come to wait
upon your lordship and the Court, to give you
an account, that some of the witnesses that were
summoned here for the prisoners, are so beaten
and abused without, that they dare not come to
give their evidence, for fear of being killed.
L. C. J. That is a thing that is not to be
suffered ; let us but see any person that dares
but offer to meddle with them, aud I'll assure
you we will take care to see them punished, ac-
cording as they do deserve.
L. C. J. North. It is a very unjustifiable
thing, a thing that we will very severely punish,
if they be hindered of free ingress and regress.
Justice Atkins. Indeed it is a very horrid
thing that they should be so abused ; they ought
to have their liberty of coming aud giving their
evidence here, without any molestation.
E. Custlemain. I can assure your lordship,
that one of them was so beaten and bruised,
that we cannot tell but it may cost him his
life.
L. C. J. Nay, we must look to such a thine
as that ; for it is by no means to be allowed of.
If your lordship will but tell us who they are ;
let us but know them, and we will take care
for the punishment of them ; for we will shew
ourselves just and fair, and give them all the fair
play that can be.
Justice Pemberlon. Mr. Langhorn, have you
any more witnesses?
Langhorn. Call the woman that kept the
White-horse tavern. [Who stood up.]
L. C. J. To what purpose do you call this
woman ?
Langhorn. I desire, my loM, to ask one
question of Mr. Oates, touching the consult at
uie White-horse tavern in the Strand, How
many persons met there ?
Oates. Before that question be asked, I pray
your lordship would ask her, When she cauje 10
the White- horse tavern, to keep it.
Witness. I do not keep it now.
L. Q. J. When did you keep it ?
Witness. I kept it in June, aud I left it the
beginning of July.
Oates. She does not come to the time.
X. G. J, Did you keep it all the year before
daat?
4S3]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chjuuks II. H»79.-^br High Treason.
[460
peay was is hit house at one time, but once,
id all my seven yearly aad that was a Jury of
the parish, and they could not be together, but
irene divided into three rooms.
Then there stood up a Stranger; who was
sworn.
JL CLJ. Well, sir, do you know the White-
bane Tavern in the Strand i
1st Witness. Yes, my Lord, I do very well.
L.C. J, Do you know the biggest room in
the house?
1st Witneu. Yes, I do, my Lord.
JL C. J. How many may dine there ?
1st Witness. It may be 90 people. I have
en a dozen or 16 there often.
JL. C. J. Did yon know the tavern a year ago ?
Ut Witness. Yes, my Lord, this was a year
[Then a second Witness stood up in the
court, and said, That twenty-five or thirty might
dine in one room that was backward, and ano-
ther that was forward. And a third attested,
That he was at a wedding, and there did dine
about twenty in one room next the street.]
Mr. Recorder. If she make a Jury to be in
three rooms, that is but four in a room.
Justice Pemberton. Those juries are sixteen
generally, or more.
Lamgkom. My Lord, I don't know this Ta-
vern myself ; but I thought it very considerable
if they bad not a room that would hold such a
aamber as he spoke of, fifty.
L. C. J. But you see now unfortunately it
happens. The matter had not been much, if it
had been proved; but it is very unlucky, that
these persona should be here in court, by whom
the other is contradicted. It had been better
k were never meddled with. That she should
be so peremptory, hi what itanders-by know
so be false, makes this contradiction in one thing
to give a suspicion that all your witnesses may
be false in all the rest.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Here is a gentleman of good
Quality, that sahh, there have been fifty m a
Langhorn. My Lord, I hope neither the
court nor the jury will reflect upon me for this.
JL C. X No it cannot do that ; but it re-
sects upon your evidence, especially this wo-
Langhorn, I have been a prisoner so long,
aad i know nothing but what friends and re-
lations inform me. ,
L. C. J. The thing was reasonably offered;
-but it proves so unfortunate it will not hold.
Haveyoo any more Witnesses /to call ?
Langhorn. Yes, my Lord.
L.C.J. I pray call diem.
Langhorn. My Lord, I desire I may examine
ibem after the king's counsel have done.
Justice Pemberton. Yoo may say what you
will lor your defence, but you must examine no
aew Witnesses then, Mr. Langhorn.
langhoru. I must ask this gentleman a ques-
tion or two, if the court think fit.
you m.
L. C. J* Propose them to the court; what
is it you would nave.
JLanghorn- My Lord, it is in relation to a
matter that happened at Ireland's trial, I know
not whether it be proper, but the question I
would ask is, Whether Ireland were here in
August, or no ?
X. C. /. He bath given you no occasion to
ask this question at this trial : and is there airy
reason that we should eiamine him to &uch a
thing ? Do yoo think it reasonable, or according
to law, that Mr. Oates should be examined, in
Jour trial, concerning what he then said, of
reland's being here in August, or not being
here, when it is no part of his accusations hat he
brings against you r Can he be imagined to be
prepared for such a justification, since he does
not at all give any evidence of it here ?
L. C. J. North. Since he gave not any oc-
casion or use tor such a proof now at this time
it is not fit he should be examined about it :
indeed yesterday he gave it in evidence, be-
cause it concerned a circumstance of time that
related to the prisoners then to be tried.
L. C. J. It is true, as my Lord says, that it
was yesterday proper, because he gave evidence
that Feowick and Ireland were here in August
together. Now that did some way concern
him, but you have no concern at all in it.
Justice Pemberton. That brought it in at that
time, but this is a foreign matter, it cannot be
here.
L. C. J. Have you any more witnesses, mas-
ter Langhoru ?
Langhorn. My Lord, Mr. Oates bath affirm-
ed, when I asked him touching his receiving a
reward, he said, he had his reward, (or he had
been out of purse six or seven hundred pounds;
and it is my desire to examine a couple of wit-
nesses toucliing the probability of that ; for be
was bo very poor, before this happened, that it
is impossible, without a purse being made for
him, to lay out six or 700f.
L. C. J. Look yon, here is the thing : He
gives you an answer, to which be was not in the
least bound, nor is it to be charged by -you ; he
says he is out 700/. but that is not any evidence,
nor is the Jury to take notice of it, nor is it to
affect him. And would you have him give us
an account how he came by that money I
Langhorn. My lord, I will tell you how far
it concerns me ; the proving of bis indigency
before this thing happened, will concern me
thus far—
JL C. J. If you should prove this man in an
indigent condition, what is that to the present
purpose f it goes to no part of the evidence.
Langhorn. My lord, I ask the question for
this reason ; for certainly if he was so very in-
digent, it cannot be imagined in probability
that any roan would trust hiro with such a great
sum, unless it were to give this evidence.
L. C J. If you have any more witnesses,
call them, and make an end of them ; if not,
then you may observe what you will to the
court and jury, after the king's counsel hath
done. '
2H
467] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. l&!9.— Trial qf Richard Langhorn, [4G3
Justice Pemberton. But all your witnesses
you must call now.
Langhorn. Doth your lordship debar me
from using this copy of the Record of the House
of Lords?
L, C. J. To what purp oso would you have it
read ?
Langhorn. Because Bedlow therein says,
that he had no person more to charge, either
in the House or out of the House, than what he
then charged.
L. C. J. What then ?
Langhorn. I was not one of those persons,
then he knew nothing against me.
L. C. J.« It is but a memorial taken by a
clerk, and do- you think that his omission shall
be conclusive to us?
Langhorn. It is the journal of the Lords
House, my lord.
L. C. J. North, But can yon think that can
be used as evidence here ? if you had an affi-
davit signed by the party, and had witnesses to
prove that he did make such an oath, you say
something.
Justice Pewberton. You cannot read that
against his testimony, you understand that,
being a lawyer. If 'you have any witnesses,
call them, but you pick out collateral matters,
and spend our time to no purpose.
L. C. J. Really, if it were a thing conduc-
ing to the point, I would very much stretch ;
but it being such a kind of thing as this is, he
says he had nothing to say against any body
else, and I was not named then : what is this
to the fact you are charged with ?
Justice Pemberton. Why, it may be, be did
not remember it then, will yon conclude him,
that he should never remember it, or speak
Of it?
L. C. J. You see that now at these trials, he
says sometimes, this is all I can remember at
present, but by and by he recollects himself;
, would you binder him from saying what he re-
' members?
L. C. J. North. Besides, upon an affidavit,
or an answer in chancery, we never allow it,
unless we have the party to prove that be took
the oath.
Langhorn. I desire to know of Mr. Oates,
whether he did distribute any of these commiS'
sions, and to whom ? for he hath said I did.
Oates. That which I say, is this : Those
commissions that I named, they were distribut-
ed, but the persons I do not know ; I know the
commissions were for those five persons, and
in July or August he did say be had distributed
them, but he said not to whom ; only one, in-
deed, he sent by his son, to the eloest son of
my lord Arundel of Wardour, to be commissa-
ry-general ; and he came back, and said it was
delivered.
Langhorn. You do not speak of any other.
Oates, I do not recollect tbat I know of any
other.
Langhorn. I ask for this reason, because, in
the Lords House, he hath charged me,, that I
•ant my .lord A rondel's commission, and that I
sent it by my son, and that he saw a letter is
my chamber, of the receipt of it.
Oates. My lord, there is some part of the
evidence, that does reflect upon the Lords,
which I charge not upon Mr. Langhorn, be-
cause I would not discover my evidence against
the Lords. He goes now to expatiate upon
the informations, but I hope the court will
excuse me, because I reserve it for another
trial. • .
Langhorn. I desire Mr. Lydcot may be ask-
ed, whether he did not hear Master Oates, at
a former trial, say, (for so I find it in the Nar-
rative) (it was at Coleman '4 trial) that be came
to me the next day after the consult, and
communicated it to me, and that he never saw
me afterwards.
L. C. J. Do you know any testimony Mat-
ter Oates gave concerning Master Langhorn ?
Jjanghorn. Yon are not the person that took
the trial, are you ?
Lydcot. I know nothing of the business at
all. I was at the trial, but I cannot particu-
larly speak what was said there.
Langhorn. The persons that took the trial
were summoned to be here. Call Mrs. Syl-
liard. (But she appeared not.) Call Mr.
Blayney.
L. C. J. Heie is Mr. Blayney, what would
you ask him ?
Langhorn. I would know of him, what Mr.
Oates hath testified concerning me ?
L. C, J. Do you knew what Mr. Oates said
concerning Mr. Langhorn ?
Blayney. When, my lord ?
L. C. J. Nay, I cannot tell.
Langhorn. At Coleman's trial, Sir.
Blayney. My lord, I was present at Cole-
man's trial, and I remember Mr. Oates did say
something about Mr. Langhorn, but I have
not my book here, I cannot tell what it was.
Langhorn. Here is the book, Sir, here is the
Narrative.
Blayney. That was not printed by my copy,
Sir.
Lagnhorn. Who were they that did take it f
Blayney. Of my own knowledge I do not
know whose copy it was, but by hearsay.
L. C. J. It was taken as well as it could be?
taken, but you mast not urge that which is bot
ao historical narrative against him.
Mr. Just. Pembei'ton. Mr. Langhorn, do you
think to convict a man by an History ? To say
a man is forsworn because he does not swear aa
that history says he did swear?
L. C. J. We will do you all the right, and
give you all the fair play we can ; bat we are of
opinion that it signifies nothing, that yon can
make ho use of it.
Langhorn. If I can have no light, how can I
imagine what they will charge me with?
L. C. J. Hare you in any other case observ-
ed it ? If a man be- indicted of felony or treason,
any capital crime, be is clapped up, and is not
permitted to have a copy of the indictment, nor
be cannot by law.
Langhorn. They know something of what
*»J
STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles IL 1679.— Jfcf High TWaxxu
[4TO
they are Accused for, they are confronted be-
fore « justice of peace.
Mr. Just. Pemberton, Why, I will suppose
yon had been examined, do yoo think your
examination would have been evidence for you
here?
[Then one Elizabeth Sylliard was called, but
affirming, That she durst not speak unless the
Court would promise her protection against the
rabble; because some of the witnesses had been
abused ; which the Court not being able to do,
otherwise than by promising to punish those
that offered to meddle with her, it she brought
them before thetn, she was, by Mr. Langhorn's
consent, set aside, and not examined.]
Langhorn. She comes in relation to a point
that happened at Reading's trial, where Mr.
Bedlow did depose, Thai he did not say all. lie
could have said against Mr. Wbitebread and
Mr. Fenwick, but that he did know more
against them than he gave in evidence at their
first trial.
Mr. Justice Pemberton. What is that to you ?
langhorn. That I take to be a kind of per-
jury in him ; for they are sworn, To speak the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
troth.
L, C. J. Is this material in your case what
he said about Wbitebread and Fenwick ?
Langhorn. It makes it material to make him
uocreditahle.
L. C. JT. Mr. Wbitebread made that objec-
tion, but he was answered ; for he was told,
That he could not tell all that he knew at that
time, because he was in treaty with Mr. Read-
ing about the lessening of his evidence against
them, and the lords in the Tower, and the lords
were to judge what measure they should have
from biro, by his kindness to Wbitebread and
Fenwick. If you have no more, the king's
counsel will go on.
Sir C/\ Levins. My lord and gendemen of
the jury, you have heard the evidence that
Mr. Langhorn hath giren for the making of his
defence, which hath been principally to reflect
upon Mr. Oates ; aud be first calls Mr. Hilsley
to prove, that whereas Mr. Oates did swear
he came over with him, he affirms he did not ;
but it fails out, that Mr. Oates hath counter-
proved him by such a circumstance as does con-
tradict him in what he says ; for speaking of
the loss of his money, Hilsley said somebody
else had told him of it ; but producing his wit-
ness for that, be only affirms, that Mr. Oates in
his company was told, that Mr. Hilsley had lost
his money, but not how nor where; but Mr.
Oates gives you a particular circumstance, that
he was cheated by a person he lent his money
to, and that left him to pay. the reckoning,
which Mr. Hilsley does confess was true, and
which be could not hear from the others, for
the others did never know it. Gentlemen,
they have brought you a great many other wit-
nesses to prove, that Mr. Oates was not in
England on the 24th of April, the time he says
be was, and they all agree as to tr>at time,
though as to other times they, are not so exact ;
but we shall give yoa as plain and as full an
evidence that he was here at that time, as that
you are there now, and shall very fully satisfy
you in it. For that of bir John Warner, and
sir Thomas Preston, they are matters that were
transacted beyond sea ; to be sure they did not
come over by those names, no more did Mr.
Oates himself; therefore it would be hard to
find out these persons, or to give you so par*
ticular an account of them that were thus in
disguises, and had changed their names; hut
truly if that were a matter done in England, it
were far more easy for us to confront their tes-
timony in that ; for matters that are done here
lie more ready for our proof, than those that
are done beyond sea; for the last woman that
he called, which was the woman about the
White-Horse tavern, her evidence would have
gone as punctually for truth, if it had been a
matter done in Flanders, as any thing could be
in the world ; but it happening to be near home,
it hath the ill fortune to meet with a very sudden
answer,, which is a manifest proof how thej
stretcht to help themselves, and in my opinion
ibis contradiction overthrows all their evidence.
Gentlemen, we will call our witnesses, and
prove.it as plainly as any thing can be in the
world, that Mr. Oates was here at that time.
First swear William Walker. [Which was
done.]
L. C. J, Do you know Mr. Oates?
Walker. m Yes, Sir, I have known bim 7 or 8
years.
L. C. J. When did you see him in England
last year ?
Walker. I saw him the latter end of March,
1678, or towards the middle of April following.
I saw him then in a disguise, insomuch as that
I knowing what be was, and what he had been,
I could not a great while recollect the face of
the man, and it was a great trouble to me, that
having known him so many years, I should not
then know him. I went home, but could not
recollect myself that night ; but before I rose
again the next morning, I did recollect myself
that it was Titus Oates, and I presently turned
myself out of my bed, and went to a gentle*
woman whose name I did not then well know,
to enquire of her about it. After the saluta-
tion, said I, how does Mr. Oates? Said she,
knocking her hand upon the counter, lie is an
undone man : Why, what is the matter, said I ?
He is turned, said she, to the Church of Rome:
Do you know where he is, said 1 ? No, said she,
but he is lurking up and down the town, and
only dares appear in the evenings. Well then,
said I, I saw him later than you did ; for I saw
him between St. Martin's- Lane and Leicester-
House yesterday, but he was in a disguise : and
I told her what Jiabit he was in.
£. C. J . What time was that ?
Walker. It was about ten of the clock in the
morning.
L. C. J. But what time of the year was it ?
Walker. It was the latter end of March, or
the middle of April. '
471] ST ATE TRIALS, SI CiufttisII. 1679—
Just. Pemberton. It was before the end of
April.
Walker. Ay, ay, my lord.
L. C. J. And that contradicts all your wit-
nesses; for they say, that be was there all
March, aiid all April, and all May, nay fron\
December to June.
Langhorn. He hath said, the latter end of
March, or the middle of April, I would have
him be as certain as he can.
L. C.J. He cannot be certain; for those
things in point of time, you know and all man-
kind most agree, that a thing done a year ago
that was of no greater importance at that time
cannot so easily be remembered, or that he
should take such special notice of the critical
day. What man in the world does remember
or take notice so as to charge himself in what
week or what month such an accidental thing
as this happened? But to satisfy Mr. Langhorn
I ask you, can you speak any more particularly
than you have done ?
Walker* Because I would uot be mistaken,
or do any one any wrong, I do rather take an
uncertain time than a certain, but I do think
it was in the mouth of April, and towards the
middle of the month ; that is all I can say.
Langhorn, But how is be sure, since he is so
uncertain in his memory, that this was 1678,
and not 1677 ?
Walker. Because my lord, it was but a lit-
tle more than a year since, and I am able to
judge of the year as well as another.
X. C. J. Do you remember what
about ?
Walker. I was wont, about that time of the
year, to receive money of my lord Thomas
Howard, and upon that errand I came to town
then.
. L. C. J. But are you sure it was Mr. Oates
that you saw ?
Walker. Yes, my lord, for according to my
apprehension I did know the face when I 6rst
saw it, but I could not recollect -who it was
till I had refreshed my memory, and the next
morning I did so, and then concluded it was he.
Justice Dolben. How came you hither ?
Walker. I was brought here for a witness.
Justice Daibtn. Did you discover Jthis to Mr.
Oates or did Mr. Oates first come to yon, to
putyou in mind of it ?
Walker. 1 had discoursed with some persons
about it, awhile after the plot was discovered,
and so I suppose it came by accident to bkn.
Then Mrs. Ive$ was sworn, and stood up.
L.C.J. Well mistress, what say you ?
Jfoes . This is the gentleman that told me this
business.
L. C. J. What did he tell you ?
Ives. He asked me when I saw Titus Oates ?
I told him I had not seen him a long time,
that he was gone beyond sea : He asked me,
if I uerer saw nor heard from bun since ? I
told him, No ; but of late some of bis friends
bad told me, that be was about the town, and
that tbey had seen him, but they did sot know
fhat you went
, [473
the place where he lodged. Then,' said he, I
have seen him since you ; for I was yesterday
Sting in Leicester-fields, and going along I saw
m, for he was in coloured clothes, and very
much altered from what he had been.
L. C. J. When was this ? How long was this
ago?
Ivei. It was about the middle of April was
twelvemonth, and I remember it by a very
good token ; for his father Mr. Oates came
then to ray house to see me, and that is the first
month that our new thin cheeses come in, and
I did then ask him, if he would not come in
and eat some new thin cheese ; and when be
was come in and sat down eating of cheese, and
drinking a draught of drink, 1 was a saying to
him, pray, sir, when did you see your son? Said
he, I have not seen him of late, I heard from
him a little while ago, but 1 have not seeri him :
Then said I, I can tell you news of him. Here
was such a gentleman in my shop that says he
met him in Leicester fields, but in a disguise,
and he told me what habit he was in.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Set up Butler. [Who was
sworn,]
L. C. J. How long have you known Mr.
Oates?
Butler. I have known him two or three years
before be went to sea.
L. C. J. When did yon see him last year ?
Butler. When be came back, he came to>
my master's house the beginning of May last
was twelvemonth.
L. C. J. Who is your master ?
Butler. Sir Richard Barker, my lord.
L. C. J. What did he come there for ?
Butler. He came to enquire for Dr. Tongue.
L. C. J. Did you know him ?
Bulla. Yes, I did.
L. C. J. Are you sure that is he ?
Butler. This is the gentleman.
L. C. J. And what said he ?
Butler. I was in the gate about my coach,
and he comes in and asked me if Dr. Tongue
was within. 1 told him, no ; at present I did
not know him, because he was in such a dis-
guised habit ; I knew him very well before, be-
cause he went in such a habit as he does)
now: but this is the man, and Titus Oates
is his name. Said I, 'Mr. Oates, you
are welcome into England again/ but he took
qq notice, but went forward into the house, but
he made but a little stay there and came
out again; it seems somebody had affronted
him, and laughed at him, because he was
more like a shepherd than a minister : hie
hair was cut and he had a gray coat on, and
plain shoes, and a flapping hat ; and so he
went out of the gate, and would not take any
notice of me, or what I said.
Langhorn. How does be know it was in 16789
and not in 1677 ? he says it was in the month
of May was twelvemonth.
Butler. I know it by this circumstance t in
February I went down into1 Lincolnshire, and
I came up again the same month : sir Richard
Barker was then sick and in the country, and
m)
STATE TRIALS, 31 ChailMs II. Wli—for Hightnasm.
[474
there he was a great while;, and when he came
to town I did acquaint my master that Dr.
Oates was there to enquire for Dr. Tongue, in
the strangest habit that ever I saw man in my
kfe.
L. C. J. How long after be had been there
was it that you did tell your master?
Butler. It was as soon as my master came
back, as soon as I saw him, it might be a week.
JL C J. Was it about a week or a fort-
night ?
Bailer. I da not know exactly.
Mr. Beboood. Then swear Ciciiy Mayo,
(which was done.)
L. C. J. Do yon know Mr. Oates ?
Mayo, I never saw his face before that time,
nor had I taken notice of him then, but that
there was a young man that lived with sir R.
Barker who had a great acquaintance wiih him,
and seeing him in that garb he called me to
the window, and said,- Mr. Oates is surety
turned Quaker or Jesuit by the change of bis
habit : no, said I, be is no Quaker, for he hath
got a periwig on.
JL C. J. .Maid, when was this ?
Mayo. This was before Whitsuntide.
L. C. J. Which Whitsuntide ?
Mayo. Whitsontide was twelvemonth.
JL C. J. How long before that was it ?
Mayo. It was a matter of a fortnight before
as I remember.
JL C. J. Are yon sure you know him now ?
Mayo. Yes, this is the man.
L. C. J. North. Did you tell your master of
•it?
Mayo. I was not so well acquainted with
him as to speak to sir R. Barker about it, but
the other servants, they told him.
Mr. Beboood. Setup Phillip Page. [Who
was swern.1 Do you know Mr. Oates ?
Page. Yes, my lord, I have known* him
these five years.
L. C. J. When did jou see him ?
Page. About May was twelvemonth.
X. C. J. Where ?
Page. In sir R. Barker's hduse.
JL C. J. Are you sure this was the man f
Page. Yes, I am sure it was he.
Langhorn. What time in May was it?
Page. About the beginning of May.
L. C. J. And you take it upon your oath
that you saw Mr. Oates the beginning of May
was. twelvemonth in sir R. Barker's house ?
Page. Yes, My Lord, I do.
Justice A&kint. What is become of the boy
that spoke to the woman about him ?
Mayo. He is dead, my lard.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Then wear sir Richard
Barker, "f Which was 4one.]
L. C.J. Do you know Dr. Oates, Sir ?
Sir R. Barker. I have known him these
many years, I have known him from a child.
L. C. J. Did you see him about a year ago ?
Sir K. Barker. , My lord, I did not see him
then ; I was out of town ; but as the servants
tell your lordship, so they told me, when I came
that Mr. Oates had been there in a
strange k*d of habit, tat he was either turned
Quaker oijesuit. I oj very much admue at
it, for I h<d seen hisatber but a little while
before, aoc he tofd m nothing of it, I had a
mind to hav* given birm living while he was in
our church.
L. C. J. Vh«* didyoor servants tell you
they saw him i
Sir R. Barker. The; told me when I came
home, which was 1 theatter end of Whitsun-
week, or the begin ing, s I remember.
L. C. J. Wai i in Writsuntide ?
Sir R. Barker. It v« about that time;
they told me the dd kin\ of posture he was
in, and that ybug fellov tint they speak of,
told me several pssages olMr Oatts. (He is
now dead.)
L. C. J. But then did the speak of it to
you?
Sir R. Barker. Mj lord,vhen I came
home, two or thre of them old me of it
with great admiraton, as they ive told your
lordship and the Curt ; and aid to one of
them, 'What! dd he leevoo message?'
They told me he enquired for iTongue, and
asked for me, but tbt was all tr told me.
L. C. J. Corae,*as it in M?
Sir JR. Barker. Tes, my lord was in May
was twelvemonth.
L. C. J. How doyoo know ?as May was
twelvemonth ?
Sir R. Barker. It was las' ju- about the
beginning of May.
L. C. J. North. Nay, bflls you this,
when you asked hia the cfton, Whether
he knew Mr. Oates ? Yes, sAe, I did know
hhn formerly ; and when bet of our church
I did intend then to have giuim a benefice.
Langhorn. Certainly his fcge, that is, his
becoming a Roman Catholituid not be a
thing so strange that he shofttend then to
give him a benefice.
Justice Atkins. But hark Sir, I suppose
you remember it by your j sickness very,
well?
Sir R. Barker. Yes, myf very well ; I
had a little distemper upon find Dr. Need-
ham of the Charterhouse cjo see me ; and
. I lay sick a matter of six <fen weeks, and
the latter end of my sicknesp tinned taking
of physic till I came to toi
I*. C.J. But you are surije year by that?
Sir R. Barker. Yea, ml ; and yester-
day I should have acquaj your lordship
and the Court, that there spe persons not
unknown to some of the bjif not near al-
lied to them, and that is pilliam Tyrril't
family, of Lincolnshire, hkdson, who had
been at Cambridge and time to visit me,
though I happened not to home, they be-
ing my wife^ relations; it was before
Whitsuntide, because he to take the ad-
vantage of that season of jar : and he had
conversed with Mr. Oat* he is not in
town at present ; and th< two or three of
the university that convef th Mr. Oates at
that time.
475] STATE TRALS, 31 Cables II. J610.— Trial qf Richard Langhorn, [470
Justice Pemberton. Are they ben?
Sir R. Barker. I oly tell it yd for a cir-
cumstance.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Tien set ujr Mr. Clay.
[Who was sworn.}
L.C.J. DoyoukowMr. Oites?
Clay. Yes, I kno^iim very *ell.
X. C. J. How lonfhave j>u known him.
Clay. Since last Aril was* twelvemonth.
X. C. J. Where di vou ee him then ?
Clay. I saw him i Mr. loward's, my lord.
L.C.J. W hat Hcvard ?Qne of ray lord of
Norfolk's brothers?
Clay. Yes, njr Jon-
X. C. J. Wlat isnis Chetian name ?
Clay. His nme i/ Mr. Claries Howard, my
lord.
X. C. J. *here was it ?
Clay. In s house.
X. C. J. here was hisiouse ?
Clay. It w part of Arwdel house, itisnow
made a newreet.
X. C. J. *»d you speakwith him tliere ?
Clay. Y we saluted ©e another, and he
§aid, Your '▼ant, Sir. 7 am sure I saw him
there.
X. C. J. tow often didyou see him in that
bouse? — C Twice.
X. C. J. a April and Jlay ?
Clay* Y in April, art in the beginning of
May.
Langhor j ask you .f you do remember
any circumtfft of it, o bring this to your
memory ?
X. C. J. what tok*n do yon remember
it, that it wapril and May?
Clay. Bbis token, that Mr. Charles
Howard tolte he was one that was come
from beyonife seas, from St. Omers ; And,
said he, he I some thoughts of being a Je-
suit, but I tbj shall divert him from that.
X. C. J. w do you know that it was that
month ?
Clay. It in the latter end of April, and
the beginnif May.
Just. DoiAre you sure it was last year ?
Clay. Yam, it was in the year 1678.
LanghoiiVas it at dinner, or no ?
Clay. TA.
Langhorikid he dine there that day ?
Clay. I dfc see him at dinner, but I saw
him there tw
X. C. J. f ou a Roman Catholic ?
Clay. Yefci of the church of Rome, but
not of the coT Borne.
X. C. J. Is no new distinction.
L. C. J. A No, they have the court of
• £ome distincfc the church, and particular
favourites of other princes have, and there
are those tbtfess themselves of that reli-
gion, that ^acknowledge the exorbitant
power that the claims.
Langborn.\[ your lordship please to ask
biro, whetheries remember that Mr. Oates
did at that tifoy with Mr. Howard's son,
and instruct and talk to him about bis
learning! and bestioiis to him?
X. C. J. Did he talk or put any questions
to Mr. Howard's son about learning his book ?
Clay. Not any thing that 1 iieard.
Langhorn. Was Mr. Howard's son there?'
Clay. No, not in the room, as I think, I
cannot tell certainly, my memory is frail.
Then Mr. Smith was called and sworn.
X. C. J. How long have you known Dr.
Oates ?
Smith. I knew him before the Fire, he was
my scholar at, the school where I was usher.
Justice Pemberton. What time did you sec
him last year ?
Smith. The beginning of May.
Justice Pemberton. Ilow do you know that ?
Smith. He came to see me, and dined widi
me.
L.C.J. Where?
Smith. At Islington, at my house there.
X. C. J. How long was he with you ?
Smith. Three or four hours.
X. C. J. What time was it ?
Smith. It was, as I take itrthe first Monday
in May, and I gave this reason for my remem-
branoe, why it was in May, because we dined
by the lire-side, being a little cold, of which' we
took particular notice.
X. C. J. And you wondered that you should
dine by the fire-side in May ?
Langhorn. Was it on a Monday in May ?
Smith. It was on the first Monday in May,
to the best of my remembrance.
X. C. J. Was there none of the family there
besides ?
Smith. Yes, there was my wife there.
X. C. J. Why did you not bring her to tes-
tify the same ? .
Gates. He cannot find his wife.
L.C. J. North. How long do you say was
be with you ?
Oates. Three or four hours. .
X. C. J. What did you talk of?
Smith. We talked about his travels, about
his journey into Spain, and ta Valladolid, and
Salamanca.
Justice Pemberton. Was he in a priest's ha-
bit, or in another habit ?
S*nith. My lord, he was in a cinnamon-co-
loured suit, trimmed with green ribbons.
Sir Cr. Levin*. We have done with our evi-
dence, my lord.
X. C. J. Now,. Mr. Langhorn, the king's
counsel have done with their witnesses.
Langhorn. Pray call Mr. Charles Howard
and his wife.
X. C. J. I do not think Mr. Charles Howard
will appear.
L. C. J. North. I believe he does not think
it safe to come here ; we know upon what ac-
count.
But upon calling, after a while, he did ap-
pear ana stood up.
X. C. J. Well, what have you to say to
Mr. Howard ?
Langhorn. The question that I would ask
him is this : It hath been affirmed here by Mr.
477] STATE TRIALS, $\ Chahlbs II. J679.-<#r High Treason
Clay, that old gentleman, that about the eod of
April, or beginning of May last was a twelve-
month, be did meet Mr. Oates at Mr. Howard's
house ; I would know the truth of it.
L. C. J. Mr. Howard, you have heard the
question, do yon know Mr. Oates?
Howard. Yes, my Lord, very well.
L. C. J. How long have yon known him ?
Howard. Above two years.
L. C. J. When was lie at your house ?
Howard. My lord, he hath been at Arundel
house about two years ago, and several times
L. C. J. Was he there about a year ago ?
Howard. Thereabout* he was.
L. C. J. Do you think he was there about
May was twelvemonth ?
Howard. My lord, after July I remember
he was there.
L. C. J. Was he there in May ?
Howard. No, my lord, not to my remem-
brance.
Langhorn. Pray, Sir, when did your son die?
Howard. The 5th of May was two-year,
1677.
X. C. JT. Why, how does that appear to be
any thing in this case ? he did not say that Mr.
Howard's son was there.
Lang hern. He said he was in the house,
bat be could not tell whether he was in the
room or no.
L. C. J. You asked him whether be talked
any Latin, or asked him any questions ; and he
says, he cannot tell whether the son were there
m the room or no.
L. C. J. North. He says ' About two year
' ago I remember he was at my house, and
4 about a year ago;' which contradicts all your
Langhom. No, he says, ' About two years
1 ago I remember he was there, and about a
' twelvemonth ago, after July ;' but he cannot
remember whether be was here in April and
May was a twelvemonth.
Howard. Mr. Oates was in my lodging in
April 1677, and then my child was alive, and
dined together with him aqd Mr. Clay.
L. C. J. That is two years ago.
Howard. Yes, my lord, two years ago Mr.
Oates was there with Mr. Clay, but not since.
L. C. J. Call Mr. Clay again to confront him
is that.
Oates. I did not know Mr. Clay two years ago.
L. C. J. You are mistaken, I believe, for
Mr. Clay does pretend that he did but just
begin to know Mr. Oates in April was a twelve-
month, and so Oates swears too.
Just. P ember ton. And he says nothing
whether you had a child died or no.
L. C. J. When was the time that you first
knew Mr Oates ?
Ciay. The latter ettl of April, last year.
L. C. J. Did you ever know him before
that time ?
Clay. I never did.
L. C. J. Do you remember that ever you
dined with him ?
£47t
Clay. I b> not rtintmiber die day exactly,
and I do noiremember that ever I dined with
him. ...
Just. Pemrton. But he is positive that he
did not knowhim but a year ago.
L. C. J Do you remember whether
Howard's soi was alive f
Clay. He sad a, son alive at that time.
Oates. He hac one son indeed that died a
year before Jfr. Clay and I met there.
Howard. I speak of nty eldest son, who died
two years ag>.
Clay. I nwer knew him.
L. C. J. Veil, it is plain there was a mistake
in it, he spoce of a son that was then, and is
now alive, aid you speak of 'your eldest son
that died twt years ago. Have you any more
witnesses. Mi Langhom ?
Langfiorn.No, my lord, I have no more wit-
nesses.
L. C. J. Veil, would you say any thing ? If
you would, siy what you have a mind to say.
Langhorn. My lord, I am charged here by
two witness©, the first is Mr. Oates; if I can
prove any oie point (in answer to that which
he hathgiyei in evidence) not to be true, then-
I conceive, ny lord, he ought to be set aside r
And I think it hath been clearly- proved, That
whereas he said sir Thomas Preston came* over
with bim in April, it, hath been clearly proved
he was then at Liege ; and whereas he hath
affirmed, sir John Warner, Mr. Poole, and two
or three more that were at St: Omers, came
over with bim, I had proved that not to be true,,
beyond any contradiction : Then, as to tire
witnesses about his own not coming over in
April, Mr. Hilsley says he came not over with
him in the pacauet-boat ; and the others say
that he was sick in the Infirmary after Mr.
Hilsley came away : These points being thus
proved, I think there can be no credit given to
what be says ; for I can say, and I know it to
be truth, that from November 1677, to this
very day, I never saw him. I have been a
close prisoner so long, and have had but one •
week's time to provide, and therefore must be
fain to take such information as my friends and
relations could pick up, to answer what he hath
said in his Narratives, supposing he would have
said the same here ; therefore i am not able to
make any better defence.
L. C. J. Did you never know Mr. Oates?
Langhorn. I have seen htm once or twice.
L. C. J. When was that ?
Langhorn. In Michaelmas-Term, 1677.
L. C. J. Upon what occasion ?
Langhorn. He brought me a letter from one
of my sons, my younger son in Spain, and then
he told me he was going to St. Omers : he said
he could not be settled in any of the colleges
in Spain, and therefore he would go to St.
Omers : and from that day I never saw him
till I saw him in the court : I hope, truly, I
have well proved that he was not here in Eng-
land when he says he was, but that I must
leave to the jury : but surely these boys cannot
be supposed to have any design, or to be bribed
479] STATE TRIALS, SlCa&tLtsIL \679.~TYialtf Richard Langhorn, [480
by an j reward* for I never saw tk> face of any
ef them till now.
L.C. J. North. They ere alJ papists, nod
npnak in a general cause.
Langhorn. If that beta bbjction against
then I think' it is hard if thry nre hot to be be-
lieved because they are papists rod friends ;
then the other, on the contrary, are not to be
believed because they are ensmiet: I think it
is clear that he did not lodge it Glove's house;
and I think it is clear that lie dk not come
over in the pacquet-boat with Mr. ililsley, and
that sir Thomas Preston did not come over
with hka, nor Werner, nor Poole end if any
of these points be clear for me, I faink his tes-
timony ought to be set aside, tfow, as to
what Bedlow says, in truth it is iopoasible for
me to examine any witnesses, and that I think
will be your lordship's opinion it will not
seem probable that one that was n my way of
Iiractiee should become a clerl to register
etters, and to keep accounts of aiy particular
religious order, as he makes me tcdo ; or, if I
were, that I should admit Mr. Bwilow to be
privy to those accounts ; but that I must leave
to the court ; my lord, it is impotable to prove
a negative: Mr. Bedlow it a person that I
have no acquaintance with; trulr I do not
know that ever I saw him before this time in
all my life; though it is possible I may have
seen him, but I do not know that ever, I did :
now, that I should admit such a person to such
a privacy in accounts of this nature, (if I were
guilty of them) seems very improbable ; but
yet, as I said, it is impossible to prove a nega-
tive. If I had known what be would have
charged upon me before, perhaps I might have
made a better defence; and for those witnessed
that I have had, they were prepared by such
friends as thought they would be useful for me.
These men have had time to get their witnesses
together : I never saw one of mine till they
came into the court. I hope, my lord, I shall
find no disadvantage in my coming here upon
the account of my religion, for that would seem
as if you condemned me merely for that ; I
disclaim all principles of disloyalty ; and I do
assure your lordship, I do believe it is damna-
tion to any one that shall go about to kill the
king, or deprive him of his government; I
shall leave the rest to your lordship and the
Jur.t.
L. C J. Look you, gentlemen, you have had
an account, in the first part of the evidence, in
general, that there was a general design of
bringing in Popery ; and in order to that, as
the best and quickest means to accomplish it,
to destroy the king. And without doubt they
were in the right, for that matter: to de-
stroy the king, was the most effectual course
to introduce popery they could take. Whe-
ther the j would do it, or no, is not now
any question ; but, Uow much Mr. Langhorn,
the prisoner at the bar, is concerned in it ?
And that depends upon the testimony of wit-
The testunonythatMr.Oates gives against
liim, amounts but to thus much: I cannot
affirm, says he, that Mr. Langborn was at the
consult, on the 44th of April, at the White*
horse tavern, where they signed the agreement
to destroy the king : but this I can say, That
the next day, or within a day or two, I went, by
order from the Fathers, Whitebread and Har*
court, to Langhorn's chamber, and acquainted
him with what they had agreed npon. And be
swears, That Mr. Langborn did lift up his hands
and eyes, and pray to God to give them good
success. He tells you further, that after some
talk with him, about bringing in of popery, and
destroying of the king, he had also discourse
concerning several commissions; that be saw
about seven or eight of them, and that he told
him, he had more : one for my lord Bellasis,
to be general, and one for himself to be advo-
cate-general, with others ; but those, he says*
he saw and perused them : and though he does
not know of the delivery of those several com-
missions, yet he does know of the delivery of
one to his son, to be carried to my lord of Arun-
del's eldest son : and he does say, That Mr.
Langhorn did tell him, he had sent it ; and
swears, that be had some discourse with him,,
concerning killing the king.
Bedlow, he comes, and swears, that he was
there twice, and that he saw him. transcribe) '
letters ; and that the effect of one of them was,
that they were prepared with arms, and all
things, but money. That the garrisons also
were ready to be delivered up to them, but
they staid oaly for this, and 6,000/. would do
it, which the Benedictines were to raise. If
that came, then there was nothing wanting.
They had an easy king, whom they could de-
stroy as they pleased ; an army in readiness,
every thing in good posture, and no time like*
this, to bring in popery: which discourse, he
says, was before Mr. Coleman. Here is the
effect then of those letters which by him were)
written into a book, and in which this Plot
and this contrivance was mentioned. These)
were transcribed by Mr. Langhorn, says he,
while Mr. Coleman and I walked in his cham-
ber. I saw him write them. And he swears it;
Now the matter is this : if these two wit*
nesses do swear true, then is this indictment of
treason highly proved. For the contriving,
to bring in popery, to levy war, and, to kill
the king, (which, when he was acquainted
withal, be lift up his bands and eyes, and
begged of God to give it good success ; and
which Bedlow says, was the effect of the let*
ters that he transcribed into the book) Mr.
Langhorn himself will not deny to be high*
treason : and when this is sworn here by two
witnesses, be must either invalidate their testi-
mony, or acknowledge it just, if you find him
guilty of the indictment with which he ia
charged. Now the queCion is, what defence
there is against it ?
Mr. Langhorn says, If I can disprove a wsr>
ness in any one material thing that he eaya,
then will it take off from his credit in every
thing he says. And first as to Mr. Oatee;
451]
StATO TBIAL& 31 Chsili* ZL 1670— fir High Dram.
[48a
audi be, I did knew him, I otk confess, bat
I never saw bim since the year 1677. The
thing that Mr. Gates charges him with, ie in
April or May 1678, or thereabouts. And Mr.
Langborn says, he never saw bim since 1677.
Why, Mr. Gates, saith he, was not here in Eng-
land ; -and predates a great many witnesses,
that came from beyond sea, to testify, that Mr.
Oatas was there in April and May, and longer.
And whereas Mr. Gates says, that there came
over in his company with him, sir John War-
ner, sir Thomas Preston, Mr. Poole, aad
ethers ; he proves by some, witnesses, that Mr.
Oates was there both months ; and by others,
that sir John Warner was at Watton, and sir
Thomas Preston at Liege, and Poole at St.
Omers, at the time that Mr. Oates says they
cane over with him : and this, says he, I hope
will be plain evidence why you shook! not be-
lieve Mr. Oates ; and the • rather, because
these witnesses are such, says he, as that I do
not so nsachas know their faces ; and yon will
not presume, that people to whom I am wholly
a stranger, should come hither from St. Omers
so testify a lie for me.
In answer to this, I any, it is no good argu-
ment for all that ; for though 1 believe tbey
are strangers to bim, tbey are not strangers to
the errand they came about. They came to
defend all the Roman Catholics, whom we
woaM hang here for a Plot ; and they are sent
ever for that purpose, as far as their testimony
can go. How far that is, though they are not
upon their oaths, (for the law will not permit
it) I must say to you, in favour of the, prisoner
at the bar, as I did to the jury yesterday, you
mast not take it, therefore, as if it were mere
tmlk, and no more ; nor reject tbem too much
because they do not swear : They would swear,
it is likely, if the law would allow it. Only
ene remark J must observe to you upon their
own- evidence: the St. Omers gardener (which
se one of tbeio) takes opon him ro give a very
exact account of Mr. Oates, in the months of
April and May ; but when I came to enquire,
what he knew of him in the months of June
and July ; he tells you, those were not the
ww^bs in question.
But on the other side, did not the principles
of their religion so teach, and make us to
know, that they will not stick at any wick-
edness to propagate K : did not the best and
caieJest doctors of their church preach and
print it : did not bis holiness the pope allow k ;
and never condemn any one book in the
world that hath asserted the lawfulness of de-
posing and -killing kings, for separating from
their religion : did not they teach and practise
ail sorts of equivocations, and that a lye does
God good service, if it be for the propagation
of toe mith : were not these young boys capa-
ble of having this doctrine instilled into them ;
and, were not they bred up in colleges chiefly
as serve that end ; then Mr. Langhorn had
said something. Neither are these things arti-
• ficsaHy objected against them, for the doctrines
of their church are so fake and pernicious, so
▼oi» yii.
deasractjvn aad so bloody ; and the amy tbey
take to coma off from all vows, oaths, and Sa-
craments, by dispeasations before-hand, or ia~
dolgence and pardons afterwards, is a thing
still so mach worse, that they are really unfit
for human societv. They should get their,
pope, if tbey would not have it throw a into
their dish, and have it believed by us ; I -say,
tbey should get the pope of Rome to decry and
anathematize sut:h doctrines of deposing and
killing .kings, and discharging subjects from
their allegiance*? but that will never be; for
his holiness the pope will keep himself where
he is, and will part with nothing that he hath
of advantage over any.
Look you, gentlemen, thus much I cannot
omit, with a good conscience, to say, the pro-
fession, the doctrines, and the discipline ofthe
church of Rome is such, that it does take awaj
a great part of the faith that should be given
to these witnesses ; nevertheless we most be
fair and should bear them, if we could not
answer what tbey alledge, by evidence
to the contrary. Mr. Oates, therefore, to
justify himself, hath produced, I think, seven
or eight witnesses, that do prove that be
was here in the latter end of April, and begin*
ningof May, which does contradict all their tes-
timony, who do say, he was abroad aU along
from December to Jane, and that they saw aim
every other day.
It is true, if we were certain that wjier these
voung men spake, were indeed so as they say,
it is impossible for Mr. Oates's testimony to be
believed. If I were satisfied, that, really and
truly Mr. Oates was not here, bat was sis
months together there, and that he bath invent-
ed this story, and made this himself; I could
no longer confide in the man nor find Mr.
Langhorn guilty : yet is not the time really the
substance of.the thing, though he hath made k
so now, because the consult was the 24th of
April, at which he was present; aad he did
go, he says, to Mr. Langhorn, within a day or
two after, to acquaint him with the resolution
of it.
To this end bath Mr. Oates produced seren
or eight witnesses that saw him, as they swear.
He hath produced a minister, that says he saw
bim in a disguise, but having known him before
recollected him to be Che man. He hath pro-
duced a woman that agrees with that story;
for she says, that be came and talked with her
about it, and told her then, that he had seen'
Mr. Oates the day before, and gives you a to-
ken whv it was about that time of the year.
tyow, if this be not a new matter, and new
found out, this woman (if she swears true) does
justify the other in what he did say a year ago,
when they could never imagine that any great
weight and moment should belaid opon that ac-
cident of his seeing Oates in the street. He
hath produced to you the coachman of sfer
Richard Barker, that says, he knew him well
when he came to bis master's bouse. There be
called him by his name, that asking for Dr.
Tongue, bat not finding bim within, he *
21
4S3] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL 1679.— Trial qf Hkhard Lmighorn, [4S4
away presently ; that he was in disguise ; that
they acquainted their master with it, as soon
as he. came home; and their master says,
that so they did. And the person that then
lived in the house, and now is dead, said to the
maid, Yonder is Mr. Oates, I think he is either
turned quaker,or priest ; what a kind of habit
he is got into ! No, said the maid, be can't be
a quaker, because he wears a periwig; but she
says, he named him to her, Oates, and that
this is the man, she knew him since. It is the
same man that the young man spoke to her
about.
He bath produced farther one of their own
religion, one that is a papist still, and be says
he saw him twice at Mr. Cbarles Howard's in
Arundel-House. There was indeed some per-
plexity they would have put upon ii, by rea-
son of Mr. Howard's son being dead a year be-
fore ; the witness says he did not know
the son. A papist he coofeses himself ex*
pressly to be, if not a priest ; " and I would
aot ask him the question, because it is
not fair to make bim accuse, himself : but he
does swear expressly, he saw Mr. Oates at
Mr. Charles Howard's in April or May, which
'contradicts all their witnesses. He also pro-
duces a schoolmaster, that tells that he dined
with him the beginning of. May : and J remem-
bered it, says ike, very well, for we dined by
the fire-side, which gave me occasion to wou-
der at it, in May, and remember it. He says,
moreover, that he stuid three or four hours
with him, and talked of all bis travels in Spain.
Now must nil these people be downri&ht per-
jured ; it can be no mistake but they are all
Alsly forsworn if there be not truth in it. And
when here are seven or eight witnesses
positively swearing against the affirmation of
so many others, vie leave the credit of both
sides to you who are the judges of the fact.
There is indeed (and I will repeat it for you,
for I would not miss any thing, as near as I can,
that would make for the prisoner's advantage)
there is a proof concerning sir Jolm Warner,
and Preston, and Poole, that they were there at
the time, and there hath been no answer given
to it : but I say still, it is the same thing ; for
if you do not believe those witnesses to Apeak
true, that affirm that Oates was there all the time,
but rather believe that he was here by seven or
-eight people that testify it, I say, ifyoo can-
not believe he was there, you will never change
your mind for one circumstance.
Langhorn. They are not the same wit-
nesses.
L. C. J. Jt is true, they are not : you have
four or five witnesses that speak apart, but two
of them do say, that they knew Oates ako was
there at the same time that they speak that sir
.John Warner was at home.
Langhom. Nut those two of Liege, my lord,
about sir Thomas Preston.
X. C. I> No, they- do not, fori leave It to
you of the jury, upon the whole matter : there
as little more to be said by me. If so be
jtrtdit is u> b* given to these witnesses of Oates
more than to the , others, theu you most find
him guilty, and the rather, because I do a little
suspect, chey come over instructed, to say what
they do. You find they apply themselves to
the thing they came tor; and not only the
gardener but another could tell you (which bath
a very great influence upon me ; as to their
credit) that the months of April and May were
the months in question, and they were not to be
examined any farther. So that it looks as if
these young men were sent of an errand ; and
though you do not know them, Mr.Langhoro, and
are innocent as to any tampering with them*
yet I am afraid they are come to serve the Ca-J
tholic cause, as they call it. For they are
very well taught, and tbey keep to those months
of April and May, of all the months in the year.
Then tbey bring the woman of the White-
Horse- tavern, where the consult of the 24th of
April was ; and what is the use they would
make of her? Why, it is that Mr. Oates should
make a story of fifty fathers being in her tavern
at one time (but he insists now there was &
matter of twenty) when there was not a room in
her house that would hold ten : but you hear
how she was answered, from testimony rising
up in the court of themselves, that were ac-
quainted with her house, and know, that forty
people may dine in two of her rooms , and the
king's counsel observed well, how chance itself
halh put to silence this evidence. So that when
matters are a Hedged to be done at home there
is not so great a difficulty as in proving things
that are done abroad.
I leave it to you, Sirs. Here is a .gentleman
that standi at the bar, upon his life, on the oue
hand; but if Mr. Oates says true, all our lives,
and liberties, our king, ana religion, are at the
stake, on the other hand. God defend that in-
nocent blood should be shed, and God defend
us also from Popery, and from ajl popish plots,
and from all the bloody principles of papists,
which are very cruel, as we know by expe-
rience ; and you cannot blame us -to look to
ourselves. For I must tell you, the Plot is
proved as plain as the day, nnd that hy Oates ;
and farther, Gates's testimony is confirmed by
that which can never be answered. For when
he comes at his first testimony, and says, that
upon the S^th of April, such a consult was
summoned, and held, it falls out, that five days
after a letter is fouud amongst Harco'urt's
Papers, (a principal person in the detigu),
which does order the meeting upon the 34th of
April, being the day after St. George's feast,
aud gives them a caution that they should 00s
come too soon to town ; that they should doc
appear too much is London, for fear of dis-
covering the design, and of disclosing ' That,
the nature of which requires secrecy.' Plainer
than this is hardly to be writ from a Jesuit, es-
pecially in so dangerous a matter. Ai.d what
can be answered to this letter, that is found in
a priest s hands, four days after Mr. Oates had
giveji.in his information about it?
Put all this together, and if you be satisfied
herein, you may judge the better, as to the yajr
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1619.— for High Treason.
4B5J
tieuJar business of Mr. Langborn, how far the
testimony of Oates and Bedlow affect him.
You know what you do. And for Bedlow, it is
true, what he says, that there is nothing to be
said to his evidence, because no man caa prove
a negative; and he swears- expressly , that he
had this discourse with him, of these treasona-
ble matters, killing the king, and altering reli-
gion. If this be so, and yoo are satisfied in
that particular, (and that a man may very well
be, as to the substance,) I do not see any con-
siderable answer that is given. I say once
more, there is the life of a gentleman at stake,
and there are all our lives at the stake : Follow
you your consciences; do wisely, do honestly,
and consider what is to be done.
L. C. J. North. With nay lord's leave, be-
cause there hath been mention made of this
letter, which goes much in confirmation of Mr.
Oate&'s testimony ; it is in Court, hut it hatb
not been produced at the bar, I desire it may,
if your lordship please.
Sir Cr. Levtni. It is here in Court, my lord,
we will give your lordship an account how we
came .by it. Swear sir Thomas Doleman,
Which was dooe.
Sir Cr. Levins. Sir Thomas, did you find the
Paper amongst Mr. Harcourt's Papers ?
Sir Thomas Doleman. I found this leiter
among the papers of Mr. Harcourt, that were
committed to my search.
L. C. J. When did you find it, Sir ?
Sir Thame* Doleman. It was some 5 or 6 days
alter Mr. Oates had given in bis information to
the king and council.
£. C. J. Da you mark it, Gentlemen ? After
Mr. Oates had told the council of the consult
on the 24th of April, is this letter found.
L. C. J. North. It is in confirmation of Mr.
Oates's testimony.
[Then the Letter was read, being the same
with that in page 350 in the Trial of White-
bread, Harcourt, &c]
X. C. J. This letter is only as to the Plot in
general, and not to be applied to Mr. Langhorn
in particular.
Langhorn. Mr. Oates might very well be
able to speak of this meeting of this congrega-
tion, as they call it, before this letter was taken,
it is easy to believe, because Mr. Oates being
at St. Omers, I suppose the like letters of sum*
mons might come over to St. Omers, tcf fetch
some of tbero-over hither.
L. C. J. You. say well; but if you have but
the luck to give me an answer to a thing or
two, yoo will have better fortune, and more
skill than the priests. It is true,, he might,
perchance, know of the consult, if he were at
St. Omers : But will you tell us what that de-
sign was ? And what is the meaning of putting
those words into the letter, That they should
not come too soon to London, nor appear too
much about town, for fear of discovering that
design, which they knew required secrecy in its
own nature ?
[4*0
Langhorn. My lord, I will tell you what I"
take to be the meaning of .that letter. The
design, was the holding of a congregation :
There were divers of them, and it was like the
meeting of a dean and chapter in a college,
and he bids them not to come too long before
the time, for they were certainly in very great
danger to be taken.
L. C. J. What ! at that time? What danger
were they in then ?
Langhorn. Yes, my lord, the parliament was
then sitting.
X. C. J. But you know what indulgence there
was to all papists at that time, if they would be
but quiet.' Well, but put it all together, they
were to' come to London, not too soon, nor to
appear too much, because the parliament was
sitting, for fear of discovering the design.
What, was that only for Mr. Whitebread, and
his fellows, to make ad officer ! Can it be an-
swered by that ?
Langhorn. Certainly, their holding of a con-
gregation in England does require secrecy.
L. C. J. Gentlemen, here is the thing, this
is only an evidence to the Plot in genera), that
there is a Plot, and you may make what rea-
sonable use you think fit of it. It is not a par-
ticular evidence against Mr. Langhorn's par-
ticular person, only it shews there was a Plot,
and you have heard what they say to him in
particular about it. And I will tell vou one
thing more, which if Oates swears true, con-
cerns you very much. He saith, they were a
talking of the ten thousand pounds that sir
George Wakemau was to have for poisoning
the king, when their other attempts had failed,
and that he would not take under 15,000/. :
You, Mr. Langhorn, was very angry, and said
it was a base, covetous thing in him ; and it
being such a public cause, it would have been
no matter )T he had done it for nothing. I have
repeated as much as I can* well remember, with-
out any prejudice to Mr. Langhorn's -testimony.
And so 1 leave it with yoo.
[Then an officer was sworn to keep the jury,
who withdrew to consider of thejr Verdict; an^d
the Judges also went off from the Bench. The
Lord Chief Justice telling the Auditory, that
the day being so far spent, and the commission
determining that night, because of the term, sic
George Wakcman, and the rest, could not be
tried till next sessions. And alter a short
space the Jury returned, and answering to theft
names, delivered in their Verdict.]
Clerk of the Crown. Gentlemen, Are you.
all agreed of your Verdict?
Omnes. Yes.
CI. of Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omnet. Foreman.
CI. of Cr. Richard Langhorn, bold op thy
hand. Look upon the -prisoner : You of the
Jury, how say you ? Is he Guilty of the High-
Treason whereof he stands indicted, or Net
Guilty?
Foreman. Guilty.
CL of Cr. What goods ov chattels*?
i
487]' STATE T&UI& 31 Chains II. 1679. —Tufa/ qfRdciard Lafigkonx, [48ft
; Foreman. None, to our knowledge.
CI. qfCr. Hearken to the verdict, a* the Court
hath recorded it ; You say that Richard Lang
horn is Guilty or the High-Treusoo whereof he
stands indicted : but you say that he had no
goods or chattels, lands, or tenement*, at the
time of the. High Treason. commuted, or at any
time since, to your knowledge. And so you say
all?
Omnes. Yes.
.. Rtcorder. It, is a verdict according to the
justice of the evidence. (Upon which there was
a v£ry great shout.)
Then Mr. Recorder sent for the prisoners
convicted before, to receive their Judgment ;
and they were brought to the bar, and the Court
proceeded thus :
CI. of Cr. Richard Langhorn, hold up thy
hand : Thou standest convicted of High Trea-
son ; what canst thou say for thyself, why the
Court should dot give judgment on thee to die,
according to law ?
Langhom. I have nothing to say.
67. qfCr. Thomas White, otherwise White-
bread, hold up t by hand : Thou standest con*
vie ted, in Middlesex, of High Treason ; what
canst thou say for thyself, why the Court should
not give judgment on thee to die, according to
iawf
WhiUbread. I can say nothing.
CI.. <tf Cr. John Fen wick, bold up thy
hand : thou art in the same case with him that
went last before thee ; what canst thou say,
&c?
JFcnwick. I have nothing more to say.
Cl.qfCr. William Harcourt, hold up thy
hand ;. thou art in the same case with the two
that went last before thee ; .what canst thou
fay, ate r
Harcourt, I have nothing at all to say,
CL of Cr. John Gavan, hold up thy hand :
thou art in the same case with the three that
went last before thee \ what canst thou say,
&c. ?
Gavan. I have nothing more to say, than I
did say. God bless the king and the kingdom.
CI. of Cr. Anthony Turner, hold up thy
hand : thou art in the same case with the four
that went last before thee; what canst thou
fay, &c. ?
Turner. I have nothing to say.
CL of Cr. Then, Crier, make proclamation
of silence while judgment is given, upon pain of
imprisonment. (Which was done on both sides
of the Court.")
Recorder (sir George Jefieries). You the
prisoners at the bar : You have been severally
arraigned, and now are severally convicted of
High-Treason : and that attended1 with all the
ill circumstances that can be possible to aggra-
vate so high, a crime. You attempted theJife
of the best of kings, who was full of mercy and
compassion,, even to you, under whom you
might still have lived peaceably and quietly,
baa not yoor own malice and mischiefs pre-
vented it. Nor were you satisfied, with that
aloae ; for you intended thereby to mate way
for the destruction of the greatest part of the*
kingdom, by a public massacre, by cutting the)
throats of all Protestant* ; for that also appears
to be yoor design : to effect which, the nearest
way and the best means you could think of, was
first to kill tbe king. And this was to be done
for the introducing of another religion* as yon
call it ; which, as we think, we more properly
call superstition ; and so root out the best reli-
gion that is established among as by law. Aow.
1 therefore call it the b* st of religions, even
for your sakes; for had it not been for the sake
of our religion, that teaches us not to make
such requitals, a* yours stemi to teach yon,
'you had not had that lair formal way of trial,
and of being heard, as you now have bf en ; but
murder would have been returned t> you, for
the murder you intended to c >m> .it, both upon
the king, and most of his people. What a
strange sort of religion is that, whose doctrine
seems to allow them to be the greatest writ*
in another world, that can be the most Lv.t,.i~
dent sinners in this ! marcher, and the blackest
of crime* here, are the best means among you,
to get a man to be canonized a saint heicui'ter.
Is it not strange that men professed in religion,
that use all endeavours to gain proselytts for
heaven, should so pervert the scripture (as I
perceive some of you have done) and make that
justify your impious dtsigns of assassinating
kings and murdering their subjects? what can
be said to such a sort of people, the very foun-
dation of whobe religion is laid m blood ? nay,
lest you should not be able so easily, to per*
suade them so cleverly to imbibe those bloody
principles, you do absolve them from all the
obligations that they remain under, of obedi-
ence to their sovereign ; you do therefore from
the pulpits publicly teach, that the oaths of al-
legiance and supremacy signify nothing. It is«*
strange religion, that applies every thing to>
these wicked and detestable purposes.
There is one gentleman that stands at tbe
bar, whom I am very sorry to see, with nil my
heart, in this condition, because of some ac-
quaintance I have had with him heretofore : lo>
see a man who hath understanding in the law,
and who hath arrived to so great an emiaency
in that profession, as that gentleman bath done,
should not remember, that it is not only against
the rules of all Christianity, but even against
the rales of his profession, to attempt any in-
jury against the person of the king, fie knows,
that it is against all tlie rules of law, to endeav
vour to introduce any foreign power into this
land. So that you sinned both against yoor
conscience, and yoar own certain knowledge^
But your several Crimes have been, so fully
proved against you, that truly, I think no per-
son that stands by, caa he in any doubt of tbe
guilt : nor is there tlie least room for tbe saoat
scrupulous man to doubt of tbe credibility of
tbe witnesses that have been examined aeajnet
yon ; and sure I am, you have been fully beeed,
and. stand fairly convicted of those crimes you
have been indicted for,
416}
STATS TRIALS, 51 C<uM*$ IL 107lW»r fit** Ttotat.
[4M
I nether mention these things to you, bt~
i knew not whether yon mil think it a**
to have any assistance, (I Man suck
as. by the law of tap land is to be al-
lowed to persons in your condition, of any Pro-
testant divines, or of any other Protestants) to
prepare yoa for another world. And though
what mats bean said proceeds from a layman,
to you that are professed in religion, yet I
hope it will not he thought amiss, il being in-
tended far yoor advantage. Let that vast eter-
nity daw yen are ere long to enter into, yoa are
now on the brink of it ; I say, let that prevail
wo* yoa to comider, that there is a God in
heaven, who will call yon to an account for
every one of those private consultation*, of
which we can never come to any certain know-
ledge. Though you have pat aH those obliga-
tions of secrecy upon your party, which reti-
njen could tie them by ; though yon give them
the Sacrament, not only to oblige them to do
wicked acts, but to conceal them when they are
done ; yet remember there is a God in heaven,
from TToom yon cannot keep them secret.
All yoor ties and obligations, all the dispensa-
tions that you can give to your inferiors, or
your superiors to yon, will never dispense with
that account you are to give to the great God
of beeves.
Geatlemen, with great charity to your tm»
wjociai souls, I desire you, for the love of God,
mart m the name of his son Jesus Christ, con-
sinVr 'heae tilings; for it will not be long ere
yon he summoned before another tribunal
about them : and great and dreadful is the day
of judgment, at which you and all men roust
appear.
And I hope all persons that stand by, wilt
take notice, that it is not the principles of the
Protestant religion, to m order any, let it be
upon their own heads that profess it, for we
abhor these things. And we hope these public
testimonies of our religion, mid this fair sort of
trial, will not only confirm those that are Pro-
testants now, bat will prevail upon those
whom they have inveigled into their persuasion,
to desert such a religion, till such tune «s they
alter their principles, from the bloodiness and
inhumanity they are stained with, and which
these men have instilled into all their prose-
lytes. And this I thought fit to premise to you
in great compassion and charity. And I pray
God it may have that effect which I designed ;
that is, that it may put you in mind of that
great immortality that you are to enter upon
ere long. And thus having given yon this hint,
and the taw having had Its course upon you,
you have been fairly tried, folly heard, and
have nothing to say why that judgment should
not he pronounced, which the law hath design-
ed against tech offenders : I am, therefore, in
the name of the Court, to do the duty which the
law requires of the Court; mid I do, in the name
of the Court, pronounce this to be your Sen-
tence s
That yon he conveyed from hence to fhe
place from whence yon came, sad from thence
you he diwwn to the place of elocution, upon
hurdles; That you be there severally banged bv
the neck ; That you be out down alive; That
your privy members be cut off; That your
bowess be taken out; and burnt in your view ;
That your beads be severed from veer bodies ;
That your bodies he divided into four quarters,
and your Quarters to be at the king's dispose.
And the God of infinite mercy be merciful to
your souls.
After which there was a very great acclama-
tion.
Whitebread. My lord, since we have net long
to live, we desire we may have the benefit of
the company of our friends, that they may be
permitted to come at us.
Recorder. Yea, it i% &t they should have the
comf >rt of their friends and relations; and God
forbid, but we should do all we can to make
their passage as comfortable as may be. You
must keep that decorum that becomes such at
are in your condition. You know you are under
the public notice of the world, therefore you
most use the liberty that in grant* d to yoa with
that moderation and prudence, that it is tit to
use such a privilege with; for I shall not deny
you any law As! favour.
Langhorn. Sir, there will be more people
come to me than ordinary, in regard of their
business, that I have had in my hands ; I desire
they may have the liberty to come to me.
Recorder. I would not deny Mr. Laoghorn
any thmg that I could grant him : if it be any
business that any person would have an accornt
of, wtyoh you have been concerned in for them,
they may be permitted to eome to you.
Capt. Rickardnm. Iheie is nobody to be
in private with him, to say any thing but what I
shall hear?
Langhom. Yes, my lord, f hope my wife
and children may.
Recorder. Yes, God forbid but he should
have his wife and children with bim.
Langhom. Or any others/ that come about
business p
Recorder. Yes, captain, with the caution I
have given you.
Then the Court adjourned for London, to
Guildhall, the 14th of July, and for London and
Middlesex, to the Old Bailey, ihe 16th of July
text. And the Prisoners were carried back to
the gaol.
On Friday, Jone 90, the five Jesuits were
drawn uoon three hurdles to the place of exe-
cution. In the first hurdle went Thorn a* White-
bread and William Harceurt; in the second,
Anthony Turner and John Gavan; and in the
third, John Fenwick. And being come to the
place of execution they were all put into one
cart. Then Gavan said, If God give us hit
grace, it is no matter where we die, at the gal-
lows, or elsewhere. The Executioner fastening
the halters, Gavan said, I hope yon will be oivl
to dying men.
firccsrrsener. I will be civil to you.
491] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II.
Gavan. I hope they will give us leave to
speak.
The Last Speech of Thomas Whitebread *
I suppose it is expected I should speak some-
thing to the matter I am condemned for, and
brought hither to suffer; it is no less than the
contriving and plotting his majesty's death, and
* These Speeches were published at the
time, with an Introduction, as follows :
" The Last Speeches of the five notorious
Traitors and Jesuits : viz. Thomas White
alias Whitebread, Provincial of the Jesuits
in England ; William liarcourt alias^Har-
rison, pretended Rector of Londou ; John
Gavan alias Gawen ; Anthony Turner.
And John Fen wick, Procurator tor the Je-
suits in England : who were justly executed
at Tyburn, June 30, 1079, for conspiring
the death of his sacred majesty, and the
subversion of the government and Protest-
ant religion. f
" If the most ignorant of criminals, when con-
demned to die, and just ready to undergo the
deserved punishment of their offences, are al-
ways ambitious to extenuate the enormity of
their crimes, wonder not then, that they who
have assumed to themselves the dignified orders
of religion and sanctity, together with the per-
fections of noble learning ; and under that no-
tion and coverture, to establish themselves in
(he absolute dominion of the souls and conse-
quently the bodies of men; break all the fences
and impalements of divinity and morality, and
being brought to suffer for their so doing, make
it their business to impose upon the spectators
of their last behaviour. Tho»e people know
that the last words of dying men bear a great
sway amongst the -living, and that the swanlike
sentences of those that sing at their departure,
being cunningly insinuated and politicly made
use or', penetrate more deeply than can be ima-
gined in the hearts of the credulous and unsta-
ble. Upon these grounds, and with these aims,
those persons so lately condemned by national
justice, and warranted to execution ; like men
infected with the pestilence, who through the
particular malice of that distemper labour to
infect all persons that they come near, thought
to have imposed their delusions upon the peo-
ple, and by their ultimate fare w els to the world,
to have diffused the venom of their heresy
through the veins of the whole nation. For
could they but have purged away their crimes
with the sweet hyssop ot a fine speech, or blot-
ted out the stains of their offences with an in-
veigling metaphor, then they thought they had
done a great work : well knowing, that an opi-
nion of martyrdom begets belief, and that be-
lief is the mother of conversion. Thereby they
bad improved their happiness in conceit, and
had shortened their journey to heaven by leav-
ing purgatory on the left hand, as being such
who had given a more deadly stroke, like Samp-
con, to their enemies, at their fall, than all the
] 679.— Trial qf Richard Langhorn, [493
the alteration of the government of the church
and state. You aU either know, or ought to
know, I am to make my appearance before the -
face of Almighty God, and with nil imaginable
certainty and evidence to receive a final judg-
ment for all the thoaglits, words, and actions
of my whole life. So that I am not now upon
terms to speak other than the truth; and there-
fore* in. his most holy presence, and as I hope
for mercy from his divine majesty, 1 do declare
to you here present, and to the whole world,
that I go out of the world as innocent and as
free from any guilt of these things, laid to my
charge in this matter, as 1 came into the world
from my mother's womb: And that I do renounce
from my heart, all manner of pardons, absolu-
tions, dispensations for swearing, as occasion*
Or interest may seem to require, which some
have been pleased to lay to our- charge, as mat-
ter of practice and doctrine ; but is a thing so
unjustifiable and unlawful, tj^at I believe and
ever did, that no power on earth can authorize
me, or any body, so to do. As for those who
have most falsly accused me (as time, either in
this world or the next, will make appear), I do>
heartily forgive them, and beg of God to grant
them his holy grace, that they may repent their
unjust proceedings against me; otherwise they
will, in conclusion, find they have done them-
selves more wrong than I have suffered frotn
them, though that has been a great deal. I
pray God bless his majesty both temporally and
eternally, which has been my daily prayer for
him, and is all the harm that I ever intended
or imagined against him. And 1 do, with this my
last breath, in the sight of God declare, that I
never did learn, or teach, nor believe, nor can,
as a catholic, believe, that it is lawful, upon any
occasion or pretence whatsoever, to design or
contrive the death of his majesty, or any hurt
to his person; but on the contrary, all are
bound to obey, defend, and preserve his sacred
person, to the utmost of their power. And I
do moreover declare, that this is the true and
plain sense of my soul, in the sight of him who
knows the secrets of my heart, and as I hope
to see his blessed face, without any equivoca-
tion, or mental reservation. This is all I have
years of their former lives ever gave them op-
portunity to do. But to prevent their intended
mischief, and to advance an antidote against the
spreading venom of clandestine transcripts con-
veyed from person to person, and consequently
subject to those alterations,, additions, and di-
minutions, as may be most advantageous to the
interpreter, it may be presumed an act of pru-
dence to divulge in season the most exact copies
of these speeches which were intended for do
goodi An act the rather to be justified, in re-
gard the best physicians always first describe
the distemper at large, and then set down the
prescription of the cure. Nor can it be unac-
ceptable to good government, by lawful means
to prevent the people from being deceived,
where their deception may, entice thenv te
change and disobedience.7'
493)
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1(571.— >r High Treason.
[494
to say concerning the matter of mycondemna-
tion ; that which remains for me now to do, is
to recommend my soul into the hands of my
blessed Redeemer, by whose only merits and pas*
lion I hope for salvation. . .
The Last Speech of William Harcourt.*
The words of dying persons have been always
esteemed as of greatest authority; because ut-
tered then, when shortly after they are to be
cited before the high tribunal of Almighty God.
This gives me hopes that mine may be looked
upon as such ; therefore I do here declare, in
the presence of Almighty God, the whole court
of heaven, and this numerous assembly, that as
I ever hope, by the merits and passion of my
Lord and sweet Saviour Jesus Christ, fur eter-
nal bliss, I am as innocent as the child unborn
of any thing laid to my charge, and for which I
am here to die.
Sheriff How. Or sir Edmundbury Godfrey's
death?
Hsr court. Or sir Edmundbury Godfrey's
death.
Sheriff Han* Did you not write that letter
concerning the dispatch of sir Edmundbury
Godfrey ?.
Harcourt, No, Sir ; these are the words of
a dying man, I would not do it for a thousand
world*.
Sheriff How. How have you lived ?
Harcourt. I have lived like a man of repute all
mv life, and never was before the face of a
judge till my trial : No man can accuse me. I
have, from my youth, bren bred up in the edu-
cation of my duty towards God and man.
Harcourt. And I do utterly abhor and detest
that abominable false doctrine laid to our
charge, that we can have licences to commit
perjury, or any sin to advantage our cause, be-
ing expressly against the doctrine of St. Paul,
saying, \Non sunt fucienda mala, ut eyeniant
bona ;' Evil is not to be done that good may
come thereof. And therefore we hold it in all
cases unlawful, to kill or murder any person
whatsoever, much more our lawful king, now
reigning, w hose personal and temporal domi-
nions we are ready to defend with our lives and
fortunes, against any opponent whatsoever,
aooe excepted. I forgive all that have contriv-
ed my death, find humbly beg pardon of Al-
mighty Go<\ for them. And I ask pardon of
all the world : I pray God bless his majesty,
aed grant him a prosperous reign. The like I
wish to his royal consort, the best of queens. I
humbly beg the p raver* of all those who are in
the communion of the Roman church, if any
inch be present.
The Lost Speech ^Anthony Turner.
Being now, good people, very near my end,
and summoned, by a violent death, to appear
before God's tribunal, there to render an ac-
count of all my thoughts, words, and actions,
* In the report of the Speeches published at
•he time, he is called Harcourt alias Harrison.
before a just judge, I conceive I am bound in
conscience to do myself that justice, as to de-
clare upon oath my innocence from the horrid
crime of treason, with which I am faUly accus-
ed : and I esteem it a duty I owe to christian
charity, to publish to the world before my death,
all that I know in this point, concerning those
catholics I have conversed with since the first
noise of the plot, desiring from the bottom of
my heart that the whole truth may appear,
that innocence may be cleared, to the great
glory of God, and the peace and welfare of the
king and country. As to myself, I call God to
witness, that I was never in my whole life pre*
sent at any consult or meeting of the Jesuits,
where any oath of secrecy was taken, or the
sacrament, as a bond of secrecy, either by me,
or any one of them, to conceal any plot against
his sacred majesty ; uor was I ever present at
any meeting or consult of theirs, where any
proposal was made, or resolve taken or signed
either by me or auy of them, for takingaway the
life of our dread sovereign ; an impiety of such
a nature, that had I been present at any such
meeting, I should have been bound by the laws
of God, and by the principles of my religiou
(and by God's urnce tvould have acted accord-
ingly) to have discovered such a devilish treason
to the civil magistrate, to the' end they might
have been brought to condign punishment, I
was so far, good people, from being in Sep-
tember last at a consult of the Jesuits at Tixall,
in Mr. Ewers's chamber, that 1 vow to God, as
I hope for salvation, I never was so much as
once that year at Tixall, my lord Astou's house,
it is true, I was at the congregation of the Je-
suits, held on the 24th of 'April was twelve
month; but in that meeting, as I hope to be
saved, we meddled uot with state affairs, but
only treated about the concerns of our province,
which is usually done by us, without offence to
temporal priuces, every third year, all the world
over.
Sheriff How. You do only justify yourselves
here. We will nut believe a word that you
say. Spend your time in prayer, aud we will
nor think your time too long.
Turner. I am, good people, as tree from the
treason I am accused of9 as the child that is un-
born; aud being innocent, I never accused
myself in confession of any thing that I am
charged with. Certainly, if I had been con-
scious to myself of any guilt in this kind, I
should not so fraokly and freely, as I did, of my
own accord, have presented myself before the
king's most honourable privy council. As foM
those catholics which I have conversed with
since the noise of the plot, I protest before God,
io the words of a dying man, that I never heard
against the king's most excellent majesty, for
the advancing the catholic religion, I die a
Roman Catholic, and humbly beg the prayers
of such, for my happy passage into a better life.
I have been of that religion above thirty year*.
4M] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chailes II. 1670.— Trial tf Rkhari LoMgharn, [4»
and mw give God Almighty infinite thanks for
calling fee by his holy grace to ibe knowledge
of this truth, notwithstanding the prejudice of
my former edacatioo. God of his infinite good-
ness bless the king, and all the royal family,
and grant his majesty a prosperous reign here,
and a crown of elory hereafter. God in his
mercy forgive all those who have feisty accused
me, aod have had any hand in ray death: I
forgive them from the bottom of my -heart,
as 1 hope myself for forgiveness at the bands
of God.
41 O God who hast created -me to a superna-
tural end, to aerve thee in this life by grace, and
enjoy thee in the next by glory, be pleased to
grant by the merits of thy bitter death and pas-
sion, that after tlris wretched life s^ali be ended
I may not fail of a full enjoyment of thee my
last end and sovereign good. I humbly beg par-
don for all the sins which I have committed
against thy divine majesty, since the first in-
stance I came to to the use of reason to this very
time ; I am heartily sorry from the very bottom
of my. heart for having offended thee so good,
so powerful, so wise, and so just a God, and par-
pose by the help of thy grace, never more to
offend thee, my good God, whom I love above
ail things.
" G sweet Jesus, who hath suffered a most
painful and ignominious death upon the cross
for our salvation, apply, I beseech thee, unto
me the merits of thy sacred passion, and sanc-
tify unto me these sufferings of mine, which
I humbly atcept of for thy sake in union of the
suffering** o? thy sacred majesty, and in punish-
ment and satisfaction of my sins.
" O my dear 8aviour and Redeemer, I 're-
turn thee immortal thanks for all thou hast
pleased to do for tne in the whole coarse of my
fife, and now in the hour of my death, with a
firm belief of all things thou hast revealed, and
a stedfast hope of obtaining everlastiug bliss.
I cbearfully cast myself into the arms of thy
Iherey, whose arms were stretched on the cross
for my redemption. 8week Jesus receive my
Spim." *
The Last Speech of John Gavan.
Dearly beloved countrymen ; I come now
to the last scene of mortality, to the hour of my
death, an honr which is the horizon between
time and eternity, an hotir which must either
make roe a star to shine for ever in the empire
above, or a firebrand to burn everlastingly
amonest the damned souls in hell below ; an
fcur in which, if ? deal sincerely, and with a
hearty sorrow acknowledge my crimes, I may
hope for mercy ; but if I falsly deny them, I
must expect nothing nut eternal damnation ;
and therefore, what I shall say in rins great
hour I hope yon will believe. And now in
tlris hour, I do solemnly swear, protest and
vow, by all that is sacred in heaven and on
earth, and as I hope to see the face of God in
glory, that I am as innocent as the child unborn
of those treasonable crimes which Mr. Gates and
Mr. Dugdsfe intve sworn against me in my trial,
and for which sentence of death was .pronounc-
ed against me the day after my trial. And chat
von may be assured that what * **y *8 true I oV
in the like manner protest, vow, and swear, as I
hope to see the* face of God in glory, that I da
not, in what I say unto you, make use of any
equivocation, or mentals/eservation, or material
proiocution, or any such like way to palliate
truth. Neither do I make use of any dispen-
sations from the pope, or any body eke : or of
any oath of secrecy, or any absolution in con-
fession, or out of confession, to denv toe truth t
bat I speak in the plain sense wlucfa the words
bear ; and rf 1 4o speak in any other sense, tc*
palliate or hide the truth, I wish with all my soul
that God may exclude me from his heavenly
glory and condemn me to the lowest place of
hell-fire : And so much to that point.— Awl
now dear country-men, in the second place, I
do confess and own to the whole world, that I
am a Roman catholic, and a priest, and one of
that sort of priests called Jesuits ; and now be*
cau*e they are so falsly charged for holding
king-killing doctrine, I think it my duty to pro-
test to you with my last dying words, that nei-
ther I in particular nor the Jesuits in general,
hold any such opinion, but utterly abhor and
detest it : And 1 assure you, that amongst the
vast numbers of authors, which among the Jesuit*
have printed philosophy, divinity, cases, or ser-
mons, there is not one, to the best of my know-
ledge, that allows of king-killing doctrine, or
holds this position, That it is lawful for a pri-
vate person to kill a king, although an heretic, '
although a Pagan, although a tyrant. There is,
I«ay,not one Jesuit that holds tats, except
Mariana the Spanish Jesuit, and he defends it
not absolutely, but only problematically, for
which his book was called in, and that opinion
expunged and censured. And is it not a sad
thing, that for the rashness of one single man,
white the rest cry out against him, and hold the)
contrary, that a whole religious order should
be sentenced f But I have not time to discuss
this point at large, and therefore I refer. you ail
to a royal author, I mean the wise and victori-
ous king Henry the 4th of France, the royal
grand rather of our present gracious king, in a
public oration which he pronounced, in defence
of the Jesuits, amongst other things, declar-
ing that he was very well satisfied with the Je-
suits doctrine concerning kings, as being con-
formable to the best doctors on the church.
But why do I relate the testimony of one sin-
gle prince, when the whole catholic world is
the Jesutts advocate? Therein chiefly Germany,
France; Italy, Spain, and Flanders, trust the
education of their youth to tbem m a very
great measure, they trust their own souls to be
governed by them, in the administration of
the sacraments. And can you imagine so many
great kings and princes, and so many wise
states should do, or. permit this to be done in
their kingdoms, rf the Jesuits were men of tech
damnable principles as they are now taken for
in England! ? — In the third place, dear*country-
men, I do protest, that as I never in my life die}
4973
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— /or High Treason.
[49S
machine or contrive either the deposition or death
of the king, so now at my death, I do heartily de-
sire of God to grant him a quiet and happy reign
upon earth, and au e vet lasting crown in hea-
ven. For the judge* also, and the jury, and all
those tliat were 8tiy ways concerned either in
my trial, accusation, or condemnation, I do
humbly ask pardon of God, to grant them hoth
temporal and eternal happiness. And as for
Mr. Oates and Mr. Dugdale, I call God. to
witness, they by false oaths have brought me
to this untimely end. I heartily forgive them,
because God com ma ads we, so to do ; and I
beg of God for his infinite mercy to grant them
true sorrow and repentance in this world, that
they may be capable of eternal happiness in
the next. And having discharged my duty to-
wards my self, and my own innocence towards
my order, and its doctrine to my neighbour,
and the world, I have nothing else to do now,
my great God, but to cast my self into the
arms of your mercy. I believe you are one di-
vine-casence and three divine persons ; X be-
lieve the Second Person of the Trinity became
man to redeem me ; And I believe you are an
eternal rewarder of the good, and an eternal
cJiestiser. of the bad. In fine, I believe all you
.have revealed for your own infinite veracity ;
I hope in you above all things for your infinite
fidelity ; and I love you above all things for
yonriu finite beauty and goodness; and I am
heartily sorry that ever I offended so great a
God, with my whole heart : I am contented to
undergo an ignominious death for the love of
you, my dear Jesu, seeing you have been plea-
sed to undergo an ignominious death for the
Jove of me.
The Last Speech o/Jobn Fen wick.*
Good people, I suppose you expect I should
say some tt ting as to the crime I am condemned
for, and either acknowledge my guilt, or as-
sert my innocenoy. I do therefore declare be-
* It does indeed clearly seem, that the pro-
ceeding to try White bread and Fen wick for the
same treason for which a former jury had been
charged with them was illegal.
u Certainly now the jury is charged, they
mast give a verdict either of acquittal or con-
viction :" [Per Powell, Justice, in Rook wood's
Case, a. d. 1696, infra.]
" Whitebread's Case was indeed held to be
an extraordinary case -? [Per Powell, Justice,
in the trial of Peter Cook, a. d. 1696, infra.]
" I know what has been usually thought of
Whitehead's Case :" [Per sir Thomas Trevor,
Attorney General, in Kookwood's Case.]
" By the ancient law, if the jury sworn had
been once particularly charged with a prisoner, '
as before is shewed, it was commonly held they
must give up their verdict, and they could not
be discharged before their verdict given up,
and so is my lord Coke, P. C. cap. 47, p. 110,
and this is the reason given, 22 E. 3. Coron.
449, why after tbe plea of not guilty, and the
inquest charged, the prisoner cannot become
VOL, VII.
fore God and tbe whole world, and call God to
witness, that what I say is true, that I am in-
nocent of what is laid to my charge of plotting
the king's death, and endeavouring to subvert
the government, and bring in a foreign power,
as the child unborn : and that I knqw nothing
an approver, because the inouest shall not be
discharged ; but the book at large, viz. 21 E. 3.
18. a, mentions not the charging of the in-
quest, hut the plea of not guilty, and the jury
at the bar, Co. lit. 227. b. But yet the con-
trary course hath for a long time obtained at
Newgate, and nothing is more ordinary, than
after the jury sworn and charged with a pri-
soner, and evidence given, yet if it appears to
the court, that .some of the evidence is kept
back, or taken off, or that there may be a fuller
discovery, and the offence notorious, as murder
or burglary, and that the evidence, though
not sufficient to convict the prison*. r, yet gives
the court a great and strong suspicion of his
guilt, the court may discharge tbe jury of the
prisoner, and remit him to the gaol for farther
evidence, and accordingly it hath been prac-
tised in most circuits of England, for otherwise
many notorious murders and burglaries may
pass unpunished by the acquittal of a person
probably guilty, where the full evidence is not
searched out or given." Hale's P. C. vol. 2,
c. 5i, p. 294.
" And so," adds the editor, " it was prac-
tised in Whitebread's case in treason. See
State Trials. See also Kel. 47, 52. But the
reason given for this practice, if it were law,
(which yet without the prisoner's consent is
unwarranted by ancient usage; vide 3 Co. Inst.
110. Co. Lit. 227. b. 1. And 103. Rayro. 84.)
seems to hold as strongly in behalf of the pri-
soner as of the king ; and yet I do uot find
any instance, where a jury once sworn was ever
discharged, t*cause the prisoner's evidence was
not ready; on the contrary, in lord Russei'i
Case, [See this Case, a. d. 1683, infra.] the
court refused to put off the trial only till the
afternoon of tbe same day, pretending they
could not do it without the consent of the at-
torney general, although in that case the. jury
were not sworn, and the prisoner urged, that
he had witnesses, who could not.be in town till
night, in which case it was certainly in the dis-
cretion of the court to put it off or not. It
hath, however, been since Jj olden for law, that
a jury once charged in a capital case cannot be
discharged till they have given tbeir verdict,
and the case of Whitebread was thought a
very extraordinary one." [See lord Delamere's
Case, a.d. 1686, infrat and Rookwond's Ca*e,
a. d. 1696, infray and Cook's Case, a. d. 16q6>
infra.] Post* 16, 39, 76, 328."
Lord Hale farther says, " If after the jury
sworn and departed from the bar, one of them,
(viz. A.) wilfully goes out of town, whereby ^
only eleven remain, these eleven cannot give
any verdict without tbe twelfth, but the twelfth
shall be fined for his contempt, and that jury »
may be discharged, and a new jury sworn, and
2K
4W] STATE TRIALS, SI CharUs It 1670.— TWaJ tf Richard Langhorn, [500
of it, but what I have learnt from Mr. Oales
and his companions, and what comes originally
from them.
Sheriff How. ^Tou can make a good conclu-
sion to jour own life, it will do well ; consider if
youi letters did not agree with the evidence,
that's another matter. -
Fenwick. I assure yon, I do renounce all
treason from my very heart. I have always,
and ever shall disown the opinion of such de-
vilish practices as these are of king-killing. If
I speak not the whole frame of my heart, I
wish God may exclude me from his glory.
Sher. How. Those that murdered sir Edmund-
bury Godfrey said as you do.
new evidtnee given, and the verdict taken .of
the new jury ; and thus it was done by good
advice at the gaol delivery at Hertford, August
15, Car. 2, in the Case of Hanscom the de-
parting juryman.
" And so it is usual at the gaol delivery at
Newgate, if a jury be charged with several pri-
soners, and the court finds by probable circum-
. stances that the jury is partial to one of the
prisoners, the court may discharge the jury of
that prisoner, and put him upon his trial by
another jury; and this is used also in other
circuits." Sed qu. dc hoc.
" When the evidence on both sides is closed,
and indeed when any evidence hath been given,
the jury cannot be discharged,' unless in cases
of evident necessity, till they have given in
their verdict ; bnt they are to consider of it, and
deliver it in with1 the same forms as upon civil
causes ; only they cannot, in a criminal case
which touches life or member, give a privy
verdict. See 1 Inst. 327: 3 lust. 110: Fost.
37 : 2 Hal. P. C. 300 : 2 Hawk. P. C. c. 47,
s. Jj 2. But the judges may adjourn while the
jury are withdrawn to confer, and return to re-
ceive the verdict jn open court.
"On the State Trials for High Treason, at the
Sessions-house in the Old Bailey, London,under
a special commission in 1794, against Thomas
Hardy, Home Took?, and several others,
charged with having formed the destructive
' project of a convention of the people to over*
throw the monarchy and the constitution, the
jury on each prisoner were kept together in
the custody of the sheriff or his bailiffs night
and day, for several days successively, daring
the whole of the proceedings on each trial, and
till they g?ve their verdicts. The coort ad-
journed from evening till morning; and also
once in the day for the purpose of refreshment,
and from Saturday evening till Monday morn-
ing, when Sunday intervened. The sheriff was
charged to see that no improper communica-
tion was had with the jury during these inter-
vals. And the first jury having been -sent
several nights to au hotel in Coven t Garden,
at some distance from the court, a slight suspi-
cion arising that they were not kept quite free
from extraneous information, the subsequent
juries were accommodated with beds, in rooms
Fenwkk. As for sir Edmundbury Godfrey, I
protest before God, I know nothing of it : I
never saw tlie man in my life.
Slier. How. For my part, I am of opinion
you had a hand in it.
Fenwick. Now that I am a dying man, do
you think I would go and damn my soul ?
Sher. How. I wish you all the good I can, but
I will assure you, I believe never a word you
say.
Fenwick. I pray for his majesty every day,
and wish him all happiness with all my heart.
Also i do with all my soul pardon all my accusers.
If the judge or jury did any thing amiss, I par*
don them with all my soul, and all persons di-
nearly adjoining the court." [See, too, Stone's
Case, a.d, 1795, infra.']
" A culprit was indicted for murder. The jury
were sworn, and part of the evidence given, but
before the trial was over, one of the jurymen
was taken ill, went out of court, with the judge's
leave, and presently after died. The judge,
doubting whether he could swear another jury,
discharged the eleven, and left the prisoner in
gaol. The coort was moved for a writ of
Habeas Corpus j to brine up the prisoner that
he might be discharged, having been once put
upon his trial. This being a new case, the
court said they would advise with the other
judges upon it ; and afterwards they all agreed
that the prisoner might be tried at the next
assises, or the judge might have ordered a new
jury to have been sworn immediately.** Mich. 4,
Geo. 3, Rex v. Gould, Burn's J. title Jurors*
v. ad Jin. Tomlins's Jacob's Law Diet, title
Jury, :v.
A jury sworn and charged in case of life or
member, cannot be discharged by 'the cohort
or any other, but they ought to give a verdict ;
Co. Lit. 287 b. . See, too, Blackstone as quoted,
supra, vol. 6, p. 1018, in a Note.
To speak it here once for all, if any person
be indicted of treason, or of felony, or larceny,
and plead not guilty* and thereupon a jury i%
returned, and sworn, their verdict must t>4
heard, and they cannot be discharged, neither
can the jurors in those cases give a privy ver*
diet, but ought to give their verdict openly in
court. Co. S Inst. 110.
It seems to have been anciently an uncon-
troverted rule, and bath been allowed even
by those of the contrary opinion, to' have been
the general tradition of the law, that a jury
sworn and charged in a capital cose, cannot
be discharged (without the prisoner's consent)
till they have given a verdict. And notwith-
standing some authorities to the contrary in
the reign of king Charles the 2nd, this hath
been holden for clear law both in the reien of
king James the 2nd, and since the Revo-
lution. Hawk. P. C. b. 2, c. 47, s. 1. And this
was confirmed by lord Mansfield at the trial
of lord George Gordon for high treason. But
sec this point argued at large, Foster 29, to 39,
where it is sa id that in certain cases there niay
be an exception to this general rule.
•
JOI] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL IWQ^fdr Migk Trtaum.
[JO.
reedy or indirectly. I am very willing and
ready to suffer chit death. I pray God par-
don me my sins, and save my soul.— Acd as
to what is said, and commonly believed, o!'
Roman catholics, that they are not to be be-
lieved or trusted, because they can have dispen-
sations for lying, perjury, killing kings, and other
the most enormous crimes; I do Utterly renounce
all such pardons and dispensations, and withal
declare, Taat it is a most wicked and malici-
ous calumny cast upon catholics, who do all
with all their hearts and souls, hate and detest
all soch wicked and damnable practices; and
in the words of a dying man, and as I hope for
mercy at the hands of God, before whom I
most shortly appear and give an account of all
my actions, i do again declare, that what I have
said is true ; and I hope christian charity will
not let you think, that by the last act of my
life, I would cast away my soul, by sealing up
my last breath with a damnable rye. — Then they
were at their private devotions for about an hour.
And Mr. Sheriff Hew spake to them; Pray
aloud gentlemen, 'that we may join with yon ;
we shall do yon no hurt, if we do you no good.
Are you ashamed of your prayers? Then
he spoke to Mr. Gavan, and said, It is reported
yon did preach at the Quakers meeting.
Gavan. To which he made answer, No, sir,
I never preached there in my life.
After they had ended their devotions', the exe*
cottoner pulled their caps over their faces, and
went down and drew away the cart, and they
were all hanged together until t hey were dead, and
then cut down and quartered, and their bodies
disponed of according to his majesty's command.
July 14 was appointed for the execution of
Richard Langhorn. When he came down
from his chamber to be pot in the sledge, he
had a written speech with him, but the Sheriff
(telling bim that he must use no papers at the
gallows) took it away, so that he repeated there
only so much of it as he could remember.
When the hangman was putting the rope round
his neck he took it and kissed it; and afterwards
he said, I do not know, whether you will allow
Me liberty of speech or no; besides the noise
of the people is so great, that I believe it is im-
possible to be heard ,*-I would gladly speak to
Mr. Sheriff How, [who coming to him, he spake
to him thus,] Mr, Sheriff, I having some doubt
whether i should be suffered tospeak in relation
to my innocence and loyalty, I did for that
reason prepare what I had to say in writing, and
it is delivered into your handft, and therefore
for the particular and precise words and express
lions I do refer myself to that, and hone you
will be so just to my memory that you will per-
mit it to be seen. — I shall therefore make only
t short preface, and I do declare in the presence
of the eternal God, and as I hope to be saved
by the merits and death of my dear Jesus, that
I am not Guilty directly nor indirectly of any
crime that was sworn against me: ido riot
•peak this to arraign the court of justice,' either
judges or jury, but those men who did swear it;
ano* the jury were at liberty to believe or not '
believe, as they pleased ; and I do likewise say
with the same averment, that I did never m my
life see any commission, or patent, or any wri-
ting, or any other thing under the hand of Jo-
hannes Paolus di Oiiva.
Sheriff. Nor under no other hand ?
Langhorn. No, nor under any other hand* of
any commission or patent for the raising of an
army, or any thing else against the king.
Sheriff. What was the patent for ? nothing ?
Langhorn. I never saw any, nor do T believe
there was any : and whereas I have read in a
Narrative that I sent a commission by my son,
to the Lord Arundel of Warder, and that I de-
livered another to the Lord Petre (or Peters)
with my own hands, I take God to witness, that
I never saw him in my life, or ever to my know-
ledge saw the face of that lord ; nor did I send
or know of any thiug, that was sent to my lord
Arundel of Warder of that nature.
Sheriff. Shorten your business, Mr. Langhorn,
you and your party have so many ways to equi-
vocate, and after absolution yon may say any
thing.
, Langhorn. I refer myself to that paper I
gave yon, Mr. Sheriff.
Sheriff. 1 think it is not fit to be printed, but
I will do you no wrong.
Langhorn. I do not think you will.
Sherff. You have already printed a paper,
or somebody for you.
Langhorn. Sir, I did not print it, it was done
without any direction or permission of mine.
Then he spake so much of the speech as ha
could remember ; the whole was as follows.
In regard I could not foresee whether I should
be permitted to speak at my death, so as to
make a public declaration of my innocency and
loyalty, as a christian ought to do ; considering
likewise, that if it should be permitted unto me,
it would be more advisable for me rather to
prepare beforehand, and set down in wtitiog
the very -words in which I should make my de-
claration, than to trust my memory with them;
to the end that the same may be well considered
of, and digested by me, and that all mistakes
might be prevented, as for as may be : I «ay,
in regard of this, I have in the present paper
reduced what I have to declare, as to my in-
nocence and loyalty. And it is in these fol-
lowing words :
I do solemnly and sincerely, in the presence
of Almighty God, profess, testify and declare, as
foUowetb ; that is to say,
1. That I do, with my heart and soul, be-
lieve-and own my most gracious sovereign lord,
the king's majesty, king Charles the second, to
be my true and lawful sovereign, prince, and
king,™ the same sense and latitude, to all intents
and purposes, as in the oath commonly called
The Gath of Allegiance, his majesty is expressed
to be king of this realm of England.
9. That I do in my soul believe, that neither
the pope, nor any prince, potentate, or foreign
authority, nor the people of Eagland, nor any aa-
thority out of this kingdom, or within d*t same,
503] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679.— Trial of Richard Linghorn, [504
lath or have any right to dispossess bit said ma-
jesty of the crown or government of England, or
to depose him therefrom, for any cause or pre*-
tcntlcd cause whatsoever, or to give licence to
me, or to any other of his said majesty's sub-
jects whatsoever, to hear arms against his said
majesty, or to take away his life, or to dojiim
any bodily harm, or to disturb the government
of this kingdom, as the same is now established
by law, or to alter, or go about to alter the said
government, or the religion now established in
England by- any "ay of force.
3. That I neither am, nor ever was at any
time or times, guilty, so much as in my most
secret thoughts, of any treason, or misprision of
treason whatsoever.
. 4. That I did not in the month of November
or at any other time or times whatsoever, say
unto Mr. Oates, or unto an^ other person or
persons whatsoever, in relation to my sons
in Spain, or either of them, or in relation to any
other person or persons whatsoever, that if they
did continue in the world, (as secular priests, or
otherwise) tliey should suddenly have great pro-
motions in England, for that things would not
last long in the posture a herein they then were;
nor did I ever say any words to that or the
like effect to any person or persons whatsoever.
5. That I did never in all my life-time write
any letter or other thing whatsoever, unto, or
receive any letter or other thing, from Father
La Chaise, or any French- Jesuit whatsoever;
or from Futher AndertOn,or cardinal Barbarino,
or any other cardinal ; nor did I ever see any
letter, or the copy of any letter or other paper,
or other thing, written or purporting to be
written unto the said La Chaise, or unto the
•aid Father Anderton, or to the said car-
dinal ■ Barbarind, by any person or persons
whatsoever, other "than the printed letters
printed Jn the Narrative of the Trial of Mr.'
Edward Coleman, lately executed, which I
never saw otherwise than in the said printed
Narrative; nor did I ever hear any mention
fnarie by any person whatsoever of the name of
La Chaise, or Father La Chaise, before I read
the said primed Narrative,
6. That ( did never in all my life-time make
any entry or entries^ into any book or books,
or take, or make, or write, or cause to be writ-
ten into any book or books, or otherwise, any
letter or letters, or any copy or copies of any
letter or letters, written by the said Edward
Coleman, to any person or persons whatsoever.
" 7. That I did never in all my life- time enter
or register into i«ny book or books, paper or
papers whatsoever, or take, or make, or write,
or cause to be written any copy or copies of any
act or acts, consult or consults, determination
or determinations, order or orders, resolve or
resolve*, or other matter or thing, at any time
-made, determined, resolved, passed, decreed or
agitated at any congregation or congregations,
consult or consults, chapter or chapters, assem-
bly or assemblies, of the society or order of the
Jesuits, or of any other religious order what*
soever ; aor did I ever see, read, or heard read,
nor did any person or persons at any tine what-
soever, ever communicate unto uie any such
act, consult, determination, order* resolve, mat-
ter or thing whatsoever.
8. That I did never in all my life-time, to
my knowledge, belief, or remembrance, see or
speak with Mr. Bedlow, who gave evidence
aeainst me at my trial, until I saw him in that
Court wherein be gave evidence against me.
9. That alter the month of November, which
was in the year of our Lord 1677, 1 did never
see or speak with Mr. Titus Oates before-
named, until, I saw him iti the same Court where
be ga*e evidence against me at my trial.
10. That I did never see, in all my life- time,
to ray knowledge, belief, or remembrance, any
commission or commissions, patent or patents,
grant or grants, order or orders, instrument or
instruments, writing or writings, or other mat-
ter or thing whatsoever, under, or pretended to
be tinder the hand and seal, or the hand or the
seal of Johannes Paulus de Oliva, or any other
general of the Jesuits whatsoever, other than
the paper or instrument produced and shewed
unto me in the said Court at my trial, which
whether it was signed or sealed by the said de
Oliva, I do- not know.
11. That I did never in all my life-time write,
or cause or procure to be written, any treason-
able letter orletteis whatsoever, or any thing
which * as or is treason or treasonable, in any
letter or letters, book or books, paper or papers,
or otherwise howsoever.
12. That I believe, that if I did know, or
should know of any treason or treasonable
design, that was or is intended, or should be in- -
tended against his said majesty, or the govern-
ment of this his majesty s kingdom, or for the
alteration by force, advice, or otherwise, of the
said government, or of the religion now estab-
lished in this kingdom, and should conceal and
not discover the same unto his said majesty, or
bis said majesty's council or ministers, or some
of them ; that such concealment would be in
me a sin unto death, and eternal damnation.
13. That I do believe, that it is no ways law-
ful for me to lye, or speak any thing which I
know to be untrue ; or to commit any sin, or
do any evil, that good may come of it. And
that it is not the power of any priest, or of the
pope, or of God himself, to give me a licence to
lye, or to speak auy thing which I know to be
untrue; because every such lye would be a sin
against truth : And Almighty God, who is per*
feet truth, cannot give me a licence to commit
a sin aeainst bis- own essence.
And I do solemnly, in the presence of God,
profess, testify, and declare, That as I hope
for Salvation, and expect any benefit by tlse
blood and passion of my dearest Saviour Jesus
Chnot, I do make this declaration -and protes-
tation, and every part thereof, in the .plain and
ordinary sense of the words wherein the same
stands written, as they are commonly under-
stood by English protestants, and die courts of
justice of England, without any evasion or
equivocation, or delusion, or mental reset vs>
*Q5]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles 1L l670.-/or Higk Treason.
cvm whatsoever : And without any dispensa-
tion, or pardon, or absolution already granted
to rae, for this or any other purpose, by the
pope, or any other power, authority, or person
whatsoever ; or, without any hope, expectation
or desire of any such dispensation ; and without
thinking or believing that I am or can be ac-
3 anted before God or man, or absolved of this
eclaeatioo, or any part thereof, although the
pope, or any other person or persons', or power
or authority whatsoever should - dispense with,
or take upon him or them to dispense with, or
anna! the same, or declare that it was, or is, or
ought to be null or void in parr, or in the whole,
from the beginning, or otherwise howsoever.
Having made this declaration and protesta-
tion in the most plain terms that I can possibly
imagine, to express my sincere loyalty and in-,
aocency, and the clear intention of my soul, I
leave it to the judgments of all good and
charitable persons whether they will believe.
what is here in this manner affirmed and sworn
by me in my present circumstances, or what is
sworn by my accusers.
I do now farther declare, That I die a mem-
ber (though an unworthy one) of that holy
Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ, men-
tioned in the three holy and public creeds, of
which Church our Lord Jesus Christ is the in-
visible-head of influence, to illuminate, guide,
protect, and govern it by his holy spirit and
grace; and of which Church the bishop of
Rome, as the successor of St. Peter, the prince
of the Apostles,, is the visible head of Govern-
ment and Unity.
I take it to be deary- that my religion is the
sole cause which moved my accusers to charge
me with the crime, for which, upon their evi-
dence, I am adjudged to die ; and that my be-
ing of that religion, which I here profess, was
the only ground which could give them any
hope to be believed, or which could move my
jury to believe the evidence of such men.
I have had not only a pardon, but also great
advantages, as to preferments, and estates,
offered onto me, since the judgment was again*
me, in case I would have forsaken my religion,
and owned myself guilty of the crime charged
against me, and charged the same crimes upon
others: but blessed be my God, who by his
grace hath preserved me from yielding to those
temptations, and strengthened me rather to
choose this death, than to stain my soul with
ski, and to charge others, against truth, with
crimes, of which I do not know that any per-
son is guilty.
Having said what concerns me to say as to
myself, I now humbly beseech God to bless the
king's majesty with all temporal and eternal,
blessings, and to preserve him and his govern-
ment from all treasons and traitors whatso-
ever ; and that his majesty may never fall into
such bands as his royal father of glorious me-
mory fell into.
I also humbly beseech thee, O God, to give
true repentance and pardon to all my enemies,
and most particularly to the said Mr. Oates
[5(36
and Mr. Bedlow, and to all who have been any
ways accessary to the taking away of my life,
and the shedding of my innocent blood, or to
the preventing the king's mercy from being
extended unto me; and likewise to all those
who rejoiced at the judgment given against
me, or at the execution of the said judgment ;
and to all those who are or shall be so un-
christian ly uncharitable, as to disbelieve, and to
refuse to give credit unto my now protestations.
And I beseech thee, O my God, to bless this
whole nation, and not to lay the guilt of my
blood unto the charge of this nation, or of any
other particular person or persons of this na-
tion. Unite all, O my God, unto thee and thy
church, by true faith, hope, and charity, for
thy mercy's sake.
And for all those who have shewed charity
to me, I humbly beg, O my Jesus, that thou
wilt reward them with all blessings, both tem-
poral and eternal.
July 18, 1679. R. Langhorh.
The Lord preserve his majesty from all man-
ner of treason, and preserve him from falling
into such hands, as his royal father, of glorious
memory, fell under ; I pray God to torsive my'
enemies, as I freely do ihote that accused me,
those that witnessed against me ; and all others
that either desired my blood, or rejoice at
the shedding of it ; and all persons that have
any ways concerned themselves with me, I
freely forgive them with all my soul, and beg
my dear Jesu* to forgive them, and all others.
God Almighty bless you, and bless the whole
nation, and "the government, and preserve it
from all evil and mischief that I am afraid is
coming on it, for the shedding of innocent
blood. Sweet Jesus, lay not my innocent blood
to their charge. 1 shall say no more now pub-
licly.
After which he asked the executioner. Who*,
ther the rope was right or no? He said, Yes;
and he asked him, whether he did forgive him ?
To which Mr. Langhorn said, I freely do. I
shall now recommend myself to God in private.
Sheriff. You may have liberty. ^
Writer. The Lord have mercy oh your soul.
Lang. The Lord in Heaven reward your
charity.
Crost himself, prayed again.
Blessed Jesuq, into thy hands I recommend
my 'soul and spirit, now at this instant take me
into paradice ; I am desirous to be with my
Jesus; I am ready, and you need stay no
longer for me. '
Besides the above Speech, the following Ar-
ticles were printed in the year in which Lang-
horn suffered, with this thle :
MR. LANGHOKN'S MEMOIRS,
With some Meditations and Dbvotioks of
bis, during his Imprisonment ; as also his
Petition to his Majesty, and his Speech
at his Execution. All which were left by
him, and written with his own Hand.
Bung adjudged to die by a public judg-
507] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679 — Trial qf Richard Long/torn, [508
ment, for the crime of High Treason, charged
and sworn against me at ray trial by two wit-
nesses, namely Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow;
*nd having both before my trial, and after the
judgment given, declared my innocency to all
with whom I have had the liberty to converse
since my first' imprison ment, I take it to be my
doty to leave a testimony under my hand, for
Che farther justification of my innocency, and
of the truth, Against all those calumnies which
have been, and may be laboured by ill men to
he cast upon ine ; and the rather, because I
do not know whether it will be allowed me to
' speak wich freedom at my death ; or if that
should be permitted, yet I well know that what
I may then say, may be misrepresented to the
prejudice of truth.
I am not in the mean time ignorant, what
prejudice I lie under, and how difficult it is for
me to express myself in such words, as may
gain belief with the world. . But my. design
being only to satisfy good men, who accustom
themselves to judge according to the rules of
right reason > and as they would have others
judge of them, I shall not much care for the
censure of the multitude.
The crime which I am charged, is the most
heinous of all crimes ; but whether I am in
truth guilty, can only lie within the knowledge
of the great God, who is the searcher of all
hearts, my own conscience, and the consciences
of my before-named accusers. My God, I am
sure, knows my innocency, and will acquit me
at the great day of judgment. My conscience
with great joy and peace bears me witness,
that I am so perfectly innocent of the treason
for which I stand condemned, that it invokes
Almighty God to witness, that I was never in
the whole course of my life guilty of so much
as one disloyal thought against my sovereign
lord king Charles the Second, whom I here
own in the presence of God, to be my true and
lawful king and sovereign, taking the words in
the same sense m which they are taken and
intended, in the oath commonly called, ' The
* Oath of Allegiance.*
As to all other persons who have judged, or
shall take upon them to judge of roe, whether
I am guilty or not guilty of that crime, of which
I here profess myself to be innocent, I am sure
that according to reason they must disclaim
to make any judgment upon science or strict
knowledge ; and must own, if that they can
make nu other judgment, than what must be
grounded upon their belief, which can never
have, or pretend to have any greater or higher
my jury will take it ill, if I presume to say,
that neither the judges, nor the juries of Eng-
land do, or ever did claim to be guided in their
proceedings in cases of this nature, by any
spirit of infallibility. The lord Coke, in his
Pleas of the Crown, repoftSv a sad, but very
true case of a person condemned aud executed
for the murder of a girl, who, after' the exe-
cution of the party so condemned, was found
to be living, and in perfect health. And I
think it is well known to most men of our times,
that even since his now majesty's happy resto-
ration to his crown and dignities, there hap-
pened a more sad accident, where three per-
sons, viz. the mother and two sons were con-
demned, executed, and hanged in chains, for
the murder of a person, who was afterwards
found to be living, and never to have been any
ways assaulted, or hurt by those who were exe-
cuted for has murder. Here then there were
, innocent persons condemned and executed H)y
public verdicts, and judgments; and what bath
happened, may again happen; and yet the
juries, the judges, the justice, the king and go-
vernment no way blemished, they proceed, and
must always be taken to proceed according to
the rules of law and justice. But there was
certainly great faults somewhere in those two
notorious cases before-mentioned ; as there is
likewise in my case, supposing it to be true
what I here affirm in the presence of God, to
be true in relation to my innocejicy, notwith-
standing the judgment given against me.
Having therefore disclaimed, as F here again
do, all intentions of arraigning the justice of
my king, roy judges, or my jury, I will recom-
mend to be considered the motives of which a
right judgment grounded upon belief, is to be
made by men not biassed by passion or pre-
judice, touching my being guilty or innocent of
that horrid crime, of which by judgment of law
I stand condemned ; which motives of credi-
bility can on|y be truly and clearly known and
represented, by a just, true, mid sincere stating
of my case, with all its circumstances, with as
tftuch brevity as it is capable of, which I here
give as followeth :
The first news which I had, and the first
mention which I ever heard of this plot and
treason against his majesty, for which so many
have been lately executed, and for which f
stand condemned, was on the 99th of Septem-
ber last, when I heard several priests were
taken, and in custody, being charged by one
Mr. Gates for high treason. On Monday cone
seven-night after, being the 7th of October, I
certainty, than the motives of the credibility was myself seised on in my chamber in the
upon which it is built and grounded.
I do not, nor would I be taken to arraign
the justice of the king, of the government, of
the judges, before whom I was tried ; or of the
jury who gave the verdict, apon which judg-
ment was given against me, whilst I pretend to
examine the motives of credibility#upon which
a judgment of belief in this case is to be
grounded. In the mean time I hope that nei-
ther his majesty,, nor my lords the judges, nor
Temple, by a messenger of the council, by vir-
tue of a warrant under the hands of four prrvy
counsellors, issued out against John Langbora,
esq. my name being Richard, I told the mes-
senger that he could not seize me by virtue of
that warrant. To which he answered, that be
believed me the person intended, and would
run the hazard ; whereupon I submittted, and
went with him to Newgate. And tinmen upon
my coming thither, I told the chief gaoler cap-
509]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— /or High Treason.
f5IO
tain Richardson, that be could not justify the
detaining of my person by virtue of that war-
rant ; be not only told roe, that he would run
the hazard of it, but immediately made me a
close prisoner, and continued me so with the
utmost strictness, for about eight months.
From bence it must in all reason be agreed,
that there being a full week passed from the
tune .wherein I heard of persons being commit-
ted for the plot, to the time of my being seised,
I must be a perfect mad -man to appear pub-
licly, and not to fly or conceal myself, if I were
conscious of any the least imaginable guilt.
And the same conclusion must necessarily fol-
low upon my so quiet submitting 'myself upon a
warrant made against one of another name, to
one who had no title by his warrant to make
me a prisoner. And it may reasonably also
fee conceived, that Mr. Oates, upon whose
sole information (as I have since heard) that
warrant was issued, was not so well acquainted
. with me as at my trial he swore himself to be,
since be knew not my right christian name, of
which scarce any persons were ignorant, who
ever had any manner of conversation or busi-
ness with me.
After Michaelmas terra, having continued
under the before mentioned close imprison- *
znent for two months, without ever having
been so much as examined or told what I was
committed for ; I considered that too long a
silence on my part, might possibly be rather
taken for a sullenness, than patience. And
'that there being a sessions then very near, it
imported me to prevent, as far as I could, that
I should dot be surprized by a trial ; and hur-
ried from my close imprisonment to a bar,
without being permitted to speak with any of
my friends, or to prepare for my trial. Here-
upon I addressed myself to the said captain
Richardson to procure leave to address a pe-
tition to his majesty, and having leave, I did
about the 10th day of December, deliver a pe-
tition to my said keeper, to be humbly pre-
sented by him to "his majesty, there being no
possibility for me to put the same into any
other hand to be delivered. Whether this peti-
tion did ever come to his majesty, or not, I
could not know with certainty, but I believe it
<tid; the substance of it was to represent the
■useries of my close ' imprisonment together,
with my innocency, and total ignorance of all
particoiar matters with which 1 could be char-
ged ; and to pray, that I might be admitted to
an examination ; and confronted with my ac-
cusers, as I conceive the law required, to the
ead I might justify myself before his majesty,
and be discharged if* there should appear no
jest cause for my being longer detained ; or
otherwise, that by knowing what was charged
against me, I might be enabled to make my
jest defence at my trial ; and might for that
purpose have the liberty of the gaol, and of
speaking freely with ray friends, and of sending
forsoch witnesses as I should have Occasion to
use for my just defence ; and might not be sur-
• pnzed and hurried to a trial, without any
possibility of being able to make any defence.
To this petition I could never obtuin any
answer ; but about the 16th day of December,
I was sent for down out of my chamber, into
captain Richardson's house, where I found three
noble lords of parliament, who professed to
come to me in charity, as I believe they did.
These noble lords, when I was brought into
their presence, were pleased to tell me, that I
stood charged with High-Treason (but of what
in particular, they did not say) and that there
was great and evident proof against me, which
would most certainly take away my life. And
that they bad heard so good a character of me
in the world, that they were moved in charity
and compassion to come to me. to ndvise me
to make a free and full confession of the plot
and treason against bis majesty and the go-
vernment, with which I stood charged, and
thereby save my life. And they were plea-
sed to offer me to become my mediators
for a pardon for the saving of my life, and
of my estate in case I would make such con-
fession. I was much amazed to hear of such a
charge against me, when my conscience cleared
me from all guilt of that nature, so much as
in thought. I therefore asked their lordbhip»
whether from the character they had received
of me in the world, they did helieve me to
bean honest man ? To which it was answer-
ed by one of their lordships, that their answer
to that question of mine was to be distinguish-
ing, viz. That I had so good and unblemished a
reputation iu the world, that if I were to give
evidence in any concern of 10 or 20,000/. he
should value my evidence as highly as any
man's evidence whatsoever ; but that in this
present case if I should swear my ionocency
or that 1 knew nothing of the plot or treason
with which I was charged, his lordship would
not believe one word that I should swear.
This answer made me see, that it would be in
vain for me to make /my asseverations to their
lordships of my innocence and ignorance ef
any plot designed against his majesty ; where-
fore omitting that, I humbly represented my
condition to their lordships, as to my close im-
prisonment, and my never having been exami-
ned, so as to make me capable of making a
just defence, by a foreknowledge of what was,
charged against- me. And I told tbem, that
although it was supposed ny the law, that in cri-
minal cases the affirmative was to be proved by
the king's witnesses, and that a negative could
not be proved ; yet it was known by all, that
there might in many cases such affirmatives be
proved by the prisoner as to many circumstan-
ces, as might clearly prove the affirmative, sworn
by the king's witnesses to be impossible to be
true. And that for this reason, if I should be
surprized by a sudden trial, without knowing
wtjat was charged against me, and the circom*
stances of the charge, and without having the
liberty of the gaol, and of my friends coming
freely tome, in order to my preparing for my
trial, and fbrlny just defence, it would be the
same thing as to raurde* me. To all which
M5] STATE TRIAtA 3 1 Chaw* II. J679.— Tria/ «/ Jfcfarci Langhom, [5I#
What passed farther at my trial I forbear to
mention, for the reason before given, bat refer
to such Narrative of my Trial, as I bear is pub-
lished in print ; which if it be truly made, I
thank the reporter for his justice ; if untruly, I
then beg of God to pardon the reporter's injus-
tice. In the mean time 1 do here, in the pre*
sence of the Great God, who is the God of
truth, and the searcher of all hearts, declare and
protest :
1. That as to Mr. Bed low, I do not know,
remember or believe, that I ever saw him, or
heard him speak, before that time that be ap-
peared in the said Court, to give evidence
against tue at my said trial.
2. That I did never see or speak with Mr.
Oates at any time since the month of Novem-
ber 1677, so that I can with .great truth affirm,
and do affirm, in the presence of the all -know-
ing God, That whatever was given in evidence
against me by the said Bedlow, was utterly
false and untrue. As likewise whatever was
given against me in evidence by the said Oates,
as. spoken by himself, or by me, in the months
of April, July and August, 1678, or at any
other times after the month of November 1677.
As also what was sworn in evidence against me
by the said Oates, at bis first coming to me in
the month of November 1677, which related to
my prejudice ; and which. I could have proved
to be false by a very good witness, in case I
could have foreseen, that Mr. Oates would bave
bad the confidence to have given any thing in
evidence against me, as pretended to bave
been spoken by me at that time. But Mr.
Qates, at the trial of Mr. Coleman, gave a clear
evidence of his skill in this kind of fencing, and
of his great care and cunning, to prevent that
no person, whose life he designs to take away
by his evidence, shall ever be able to know
what he intends to swear, or consequently to
produce any witness to discover or disprove his
perjuries : For being then upon his oath, and
being interrogated what be had informed
against Mr. Coleman before his majesty and
the, council at Mr. Coleman's examination
there, before he was committed to Newgate,
Mr. Oates did not blush to sweat, That be did
only at that time iuforrn what he judged suffi-
cient, .whereupon to ground Mr. Coleman*!
commitment ; and concealed what he had far-
ther to say, lest he should by saying it, enable
Mr. Coleman to produce witnesses as to the
circumstances of time and place, to disprove
what Mr. Oates should say against him, or lo
the like effect.
Add to all this, that which Mr. Oates an-
swered at my trial, when interrogated by me,
(and to my best remembrance Bedlow gave the
like answer to the same question) what gratifi-
cation or reward he had received, -for his pre-
tended discovery of this by him pretended plot,
and for giving evidence against such as bad
been tried thereupon ; and particularly, whe-
ther he bad not received the sum of 500/. and
did not expect to receive a farther gratification
for his farther services therein?. He boldly an-
swered, That be was so far from having receive
ed any such sum, or any reward for bis said
services, that be was out of parse ?50(. of hie
own monies, in the prosecution of the same*
Which, how great an untruth that is, I refer
to bis majesty, and those who manage his ma*
jesty's monies and treasury ; and to all who knevr
the most extreme poverty of these two persons,
Oates and Bedlow, before they relieved their
wants, and fonnd the way to supply their ne-
cessities, by charging those persons with trea-
son who have been executed, or remain stiU
prisoners upon their accusations.
After the judgment was given against mev
upon the verdict found upon .the evidence of
these two men, there were two persons cam*
to me to the gaol, as sent by the earl of Shafts-*
bury, or his order, to propose something to me
in charity, for the saving of my life. The first
thing by them proposed to be done by me for
that end, was a discovery to be made by me of
the plot and treason for which I stood coot
demned. But when I had satisfied them so-
far, as to my solemn protestations made in the
presence of God, were of force to satisfy then*
touching my innoeency, and my total ignorance
of any plot or treason ever at any time design*
ed against his majesty, other than the late un-
paralleled treason and rebellion, which was)
before his majesty's happy restoration. They
were pleased to propose farther, That it vat
well known, that I bad been made use of as %
counsel for the Jesuits, and in that capacity could
not but know what estates they had in England,
or at least a very great part of those estates ;
and that if I would freely make a discovery
of such estates of that nature as should be of a
considerable value, I should thereby obtain my
pardon ; the granting of which, upon suob dis-
covery, might be well justified to the parlia-
ment at their next meeting.
Having well weighed this latter proposal,
and considered, that it would be a sin against
truth to deny that I had a knowledge of suds
estates; and that all the scandal which coold
be taken by my discovery of them, could not
be so great, as my denial would be offensive to
God. Ai\d having no doubt, but that my frank
and sincere discovering and owning what was
within my knowledge, though to the displea-
sure of those who were to be concerned
therein, would make it evident to all ho-
nest and judicious persons, that in case I
knew auy of the plot, or of any treason in-
tended against his majesty, (the conceal-
ment of which by me would be a sin unto
damnation) I would without difficulty discover
the same, for the saving of my soul, as well aa
of my life, since I was ready to make a disco-
very of such estates, the concealment of which
could be no sin against God or the king. I
freely engaged myself to discover all that L
knew touclnng such estates, for the service of
bis majesty; and the persons by whom the
same was so proposed, went from me* with ft
resolution, to report my ready compliance
therein unto his said iojdfibip.
$11)
ST Affc TRIALS, 31 Cha*lm II. 1&T9.— far High Tteatm.
[5itf
After this, 1 did by tome friends prevail to
a report made to bis majesty, of what
bad parsed between those two persons and me,
with which his majesty seemed (as I was in-
formed) to be well satisfied, and directed, that
f-should sead unto, and intrust his majesty
with so much as I could remember (without
having resort to writings) of those estates,
which I with all readiness did : And I took that
command from his majesty, to be an evident
Implied promise of a pardon, for the securing
M my me. This engagement of mine, to make
this discovery, occasioned a- reprieve to be
granted me for some days; but after the said
reprieve granted, my lord of Sbaftabury was
pleased to intimate onto me by one of the
aforesaid persons, by whom it was first pro-
posed onto me to make such discovery, that no
pardon should be granted to me, without a full
discovery made by me of the plot. And his
lordship was also pleased to come to captain
Richardson's house, and sending far me thither,
to tell me to this effect, viz. That as my parts
and reputation in the world had made me fit
for employment, so I might rest secure, That
in case I would make a full discovery of the
plot, I should be put into as good a posi, both
as to honour and estate, as my own heart could
wish; bat if I failed to do that, no disco-
very of estates could or should procure my
pardon. I laboured, what I could, by solemn
protestations to satisfy bis lordship of my inno-
eency, and my total ignorance of any plot or
treason whatsoever; and this I did so folly,
(as I conceived) That in case Almighty God
should have so far withdrawn his 'grace from
me, as to leave me to a reprobate sense, and
to permit against truth, to have pretended a
knowledge of a plot, to the prejudice of any
person, merely for the saving of my own poor
life, and the obtaining those advantages with
which I was tempted, I ought not in any mea-
sure to have been believed. But blessed be
my God, who hath by his grace so far strength-
ened, as to enable me rather to choose and
lose my life in innocency, and save my soul,
than by falsities to lose my soul,, and become
guilty of the blood of others, against whom I
could not with truth testify any thing of any
crime.
After his said lordship had. given me the
temptation before-mentioned, I had several
persona applied to me, with discourses tend-
ing wholly to make me despair of pardon, un-
less I would discover a plot; and to persuade
ate, that it was not honourable nor honest for
me to discover any estates, which his majesty
Slight seize on, in case I did not know, that the
owners of the said estates were traitors. But
I took all these discourses to jrgnify no more
than a repentance, for having proposed to me
to make a discovery of estates : And therefore
having sent such* discovery unto his majesty, as
I was able to make upon my memory; I la-
boured bj my friends, and did obtain a farther
reprieve,* U%et her with an order requiring to send
into the council by a dav Kmhea,' such disco-
very as I could make; and a license to have
all my writings and papers in my chamber pe-
rused by such as I nominated, and according to
such direction as 1 should give, for the better
enabling me to perfect such discovery. This
was conceived by me, and my friends, td be
intended by his majesty, as an assurance of a
pardon, it being to engage the whole council,
as his majesty was pleased to engage himself
before, when he commanded me to trust fym ;
and it seemed evident, that this discovery re-
quired, must be a discovery of estates, other-
wise the perusal of papers and writings had
been to no purpose.
In obedience to the said last mentioned
command, I applied with all diligence to com-
pleat my discovery, my papers and writings
were examined by my friends, and my dis-
covery was perfected, and delivered in unto the'
council, at the precise day for that purpose
limited, and it amounted co the value, as I com-
puted the same, of between 20 and S0.0001L
sterling, and was annexed to a petition, wherein
I declared my innoceney and ignorance of any
treason or plot, and my sincere dealing as to
my said discovery ; ana offered to submit my-
self to be examined upon interrogatories upon
oath, or to undergo any trial of any test, for the
giving satisfaction, that tlie discovery then by
me made was compleat, and that I knew of no
other lands belonging in any ways to the Jesuits,
other than vtjiat 1 had then and there discover-
ed ; and likewise for' the purging of myself
touching any other matter, upon .which it
should be thought fit to examine me. And iu
my said discovery, I expressed every thing
with such certainty as to the names of the es-.
tates, and the places where they lay, and the
values, so far as I was able to give the same,,
and the persons (so far as 1 knew) concerned
therein, that it was easy to seize the same im-
mediately for the nse of his majesty : So that
I thereby did all that was in niy power, in
order to my giving a perfect obedience to the
said commands of his majesty, and to what
was thereby required from me. And my
friends, as well as myself, bad no doubt, but
that as Almighty God requires no more from,
us, for the obtaining his pardon of our sins, and
the salvation of our souls, than what his Divine
Majesty knows to be possible for us to do on
our parts ; so the king's majesty, and his coun-
cil, would require no more from me, for the
saving of my poor life, and the obtaining of my
pardon, than what was oossible for me on my
part to do. I also looked upon the public
honour and faith to be now .firmly engaged
for the security of my life, and the granting of
a pardon to me, I having fully performed mj
part, of that which was the condition. And it
being clear, that nhen once my discovery was
delivered in, and read in council, k ceased to
be a secret, and that nothing therein contained,
could afterwards remain as a thing undiscover-
ed. It was likewise evident that by this act I
had done (as I believed) more than any otbei;
single person now living, who is merely a lay-
519] STATE TIUALS, 31 Chajules II. \M9.~Trialtf Richard Langlorn, [520
man, coold do for the service of his majesty.
And that if there were any such plot, as is af-
firmed by Oates and Bedlow,and that any person
now charged therewith, had knowledge there-
of, and should be required, as I had been, to
discover what he knows for the saving of his
life, he would hardly be induced to make such
discovery, m case uiy life should be taken away,
after my so free discovery of all that was within
tay knowledge to be discovered, was in obedi-
ence to so great a command delivered out of
my hands. However I rested satisfied, that in
case my life should be taken away for the crime
for which I stand condemned, and after my
obedience given to his majesty's commands,
in making the said discovery, I should die with
this great comfort, That I should have a double
martyrdom. First, as dying perfectly innocent
of the crime for which I should lose ray life.
And secondly, as choosing rather to die, than
to sin against my God, and my neighbour, by
charging others falsely, and becoming guilty of
iheir blood, and of the ruin of their families,
by accusing them of a crime, of which my
.own conscience must bear me witness; that I
did never know them, or any of them Guilty ;
but on the contrary, believe them to be per-
fectly innocent. Whereas if I had on the
other side denied myself to have known any
thing of those estates, which I was required to
discover, I must have sinned against the God
of truth, by affirming a lye. And if confes-
sing, that I had knowledge of such estates, I
should rather have chosen to die, than to have
made a discovery of such my knowledge for the
saving of my life, I should have appeared, in
some sort at least, guilty of my own blood,
through my obstinacy.
Upon the delivering of this discovery, and
the reading of it in the council, the lord vis-
count Halifax produced a letter written to him
(as his lordship affirmed) from the earl of Ros-
common from Bruxels, in which letter the
said Earl taking notice, that be bad heard of
my being reprieved, affirmed himself to be
much satisfied, that my life should be saved ;
and gave this reason, that my life might be
useful to the puWIc, or to the like effect. These
words were taken to my great disadvantage,
and to import, as if the earl of Roscommon
4id know, that I was able to make a discovery
of the plotf And though the words might well
bear a more kind sense, and did not, without
forcing, so much as incline to that unkind in-
terpretation ; yet upon t^e reading of that
letter, my discovery was rejected, after hav-
ing been publicly read, and ordered to be
sent unto me by a clerk of the council, and
notice to be given to me, that by an order of
council, I was reprieved only until the 14th
day of July ; and that if before that day I did
not make a discovery of the plot, I was toyex-
pect no farther mercy.
My friends were more astonished at this
order than myself was, and being now in this
condition, I presumed yet once more, to ad-
dress a Petition, in, which I prayed, that my
life might he saved, though to be spent in
banishment ; and to the end that I . might
do all that in me lay, to express and declare,
my innocency, I did, to that Petition, annex
this following Declaration, and Protestation, via.
1 do solemnly and sincerely in the presence
of Almighty God, profess, testify, and declare,
as folroweth : That is to say,
I. That I do believe, and own my most gra-
cious sovereign lord the king's majesty, king
Charles 2, to he my true and lawful sovereign
king, in the same sense and latitude, to all in-
tents and purposes, as in the oath commonly
called, ' the oath of allegiance/ his said majesty,
is expressed to be king of this realm of England.
II. That I do in my soul believe, that neither
the pope, nor any pnnce, potentate, or foreign
authority, nor the people of England, nor any
authority out of this kingdom, or within the
same, hath or have any right to dispossess his
said majesty of the crown and government of
England, or to depose bim thereirum, for any
cause, or pretended cause whatsoever ; or to
give licence to me, or to any other of his ma-
jesty's subjects Whatsoever, to bear arms against
his majesty, or to take away his life, or to do
him any bodily harm ; or to disturb the govern-
ment of this kingdom, as it is now established
by law ; or to alter, or go about to alter the
said government, or the religion now established
in England, by any way of force.
III. That I neither am, nor ever was at any
time guilty, so much as in ihy most secret
thoughts, of any treason, or misprision of
treason whatsoever.
IV. That I do believe, that if 1 did know,
or should know of any treason, or treasonable
design that was, or is intended, or should be in-
tended against his said majesty, or the govern-
ment of this his majesty's kingdom, or for the
alteration by force, advice or otl erwise, of the
said government, or of the religion now es-
tablished in this kingdom, and should conceal,
and not discover the same to his said majesty,
Of his majesty's council or ministers, or some of
them, that such concealment would be to me
a sin unto death, and eternal damnation.
•
And I do solemnly, .in the presence of God,
profess, testify *nd declare, that as I hope for
salvation, or expect any benefit by the blood
and passion of Jesus Christ, I do make this de-
claration and every part thereof, in the plain
and ordinary sense of the words, wherein the
same stands written, as they are commonly un-
derstood by English Protestants, and the
courts of justice of England, without any eva-
sion, or equivocation, or delusion, or meotal
reservation whatsoever. And without any dis-
pensation, or pardon, or absolution already
granted to me, for this or any other purpose,
by the Pope or any other authority or perton
whatsoever, or without any hope of any socq
dispensation. And without thinking or betiev>
ing that I am, or can be Acquitted before Go4
581]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL 1679.— Jbr High Treason.
[329
or man, or absolved of this declaration, dr any
part thereof, although the Pope, or any other
person or persona, or power whatsoever, should
dispense with or annul the same, or declare that
it was or it null or void from the beginning.
This, with my Petition, was presented to his
majesty in council, on Thursday the 10th of
July instant; and after the reading of my Pe-
tition, my said protestation and declnratiw:)
was, as I am informed, begun to be read, but
when the person that read the same, came to
read that part of it in which I aver my inno-
cency, he was not, as I am informed, permitted
to read farther; and it was declared, That 1
was to expect no farther mercy, unless I would
make a discovery of the plot, which, God is my
witness, I cannot do, because I kndw nothing
of it directly or indirectly.
And now having related all the particular
circumstances of my case, so far as my memory
can recollect them ; and made such protesta-
tions and declarations as is before mentioned,
I shall only recommend to be considered by all
impartial judgments, those solemn and serious
protestations which were made by those others,
who have lost their lives already upon the evi-
dence given against them by the same Mr.
Oates and Mr. JBedlow, and pray that it may
be duly weighed, Whether the solemn oaths
and protestations of sober men, made by them
immediately before their respective deaths, and
this protestation of mine before mentioned,
made at a time, when ray confession and dis-
covery of a plot or treason against my king (in
case I hadbeen privy unto, or known such plot
or treason) would not only have saved, my life,
and secured me a pardon ; but would also have
entitled me unto, and, in all probability, put
me into the full possession of preferments and
advantages, greater than I ever, I thank my
Gad, coveted : Be not more considerable to
move a belief of my innocency, than the evi-
dence given against me by my accusers before-
mentioned, to move a belief of my guilt ? It ir
said, it is not upon the bare oaths of those two
witnesses, but upon the verdict of the twelve
jurors, that I am found Guilty. I am sure that
every judicious person, whet understands our
proceedings in our law of England, in all cases
af this nature, doth know and can answer,
that the verdict of the 13 jurors is ground-
ed wftKslIy upon the evidence given by the wit-
acsae&i The jurors belief of the witnesses pro-
duced and sworn to give evidence against me,
was the foundation of their verdict, and justi-
fies them in law ; and the verdict given by |he
ivrors, doth in law justify the judgment given
by the judges, for the taking away of my belief.
Aarf I beseech God that the same rule of law,
may9«t the great and terrible day of judgment,
aagpa a* well the jurors, who gave that verdict,
as the judges who gave that judgment, from all
gait of my blood. But I must again refej it to
the cooscteBcesef all unbiassed, judicious and
good men, whether in Christian charity, the
motives of crtfdibilitv (bonded upon sucji judg-
ment, the verdic't, which was solely grounded
upon the evidence of Mr. Oates and Mr. Bed-
low, be of greater force to a good and charitable
conscience to. pronounce me Guilty, than the
several other motives which I have here repre-
sented, will be found to pronounce me inno-
cent ?
It will no way concern me as to my own
particular, whether the world shall adjudge me
innocent, or not ; it is sufficient for me, that
my conscience doth with great joy and peace
acquit me. And that the God of all truth, my
Nearest Jesus, who is truth itself, doth know
me to be innocent. And that the consciences
of those most unhappy men, Mr. Oates and
Mr. Bedlow, will at the last day, when the se-
crets of all hearts shall be made manifest, be
compelled to the glory of God and their own
shame, to proclaim me innocent. I beseech
Almighty God to give those miserable men a
true and sincere repentance for the sin which
they have committed, and by which they have
drawn upon themselves the guilt of my inno-
cent Mood.
I do here profess myself to die a member of
the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, of
which, the bishop of Rome is the supreme visi-
ble head of government on earth, as the suc-
cessor of the holy apostle St. Peter. And of
which Church our blessed Lord Jesus is the su-
preme invisible head, of influence to guide, go-
vern and direct the same by his Holy Spirit*
And I do take my religion to be the sole cause
of my being the object of the malice of my
enemies, who are the causers of my death.
If what I here say be any ways disbelieved
because of my religion, I humbly recommend it
to the consideration of sober men, whether
such disbelief upon this ground, be not,
1. To cast a reproach and blemish upon the
honour and reputation of all our most pious
ancestors, and our whole nation, who lived and
died before the 20th year of king Henry 8, and
who did all live and die in the same faith, and
members of the same Church, of which by
God's grace I am now a member, though un-
worthy.
2. To cast a like reproach upon all the
princes, states and people of the world, who
are member* of the same Church, .
3. To give a just occasion to the same '
princes, states and people, never to give credit
to any thing affirmed or sworn by any English
Protestant ; and consequently,
4. To lay a foundation for the total destroy-
ing of all trade, as well as conversation, with all
those princes, states and people.
We must learn to do unto others, as we
would' have others do unto us. And it is not a
good answer to say, that this disbelief is only
in relation to the Jesuits, and those who make
use of them ? For there is scarce any prince of
this religion now living, who doth not make use
of a Jesuit for his ghostly father ; which will ,
likewise be a clear evidence*,, that those princes
(known to all the world not to be fools or mad*
men) have not an opinion! that the doctrines
533] STATE TRIALS, Si Chablbs II. 1 670.— TWa* o/ Richard Ldngforn, [524
and principles of the Jesuits, are any ways per- I
nicious and dangerous to government, as the '
pulpits of England repute them to be. And
certainly if an English Protestant should in
France, cast the two execrable murders of
those two kings of that kingdom, who were
killed by Clement and Ravillac, upon the Je-
suits, or as an effect of any doctrine of our
church, that chufcb and that order, would with
much greater ease dear themselves from such
a reproach, than our English Protestants could,
clear themselves, in case the murder of queen
Mary of Scotland (our king's great grandmother)
or of our last most excellent priuce king Charles
the 1st, should be cast as a reproach upon the
doctrines of the Protestant church of England,
or of any other party professing Protestancy^
these murders being committed under the so-
lemn species and formalities of public justice ;
when it is well known, that Clement and Ravil-
lac were only two private villains, who were
disowned by all the world. Nor do there want
authors who call themselves, and are reputed
to be Protestants, who, in their public writings,
justify these two murders of queen Mary and
atng Charles 1. Nay, there may, peradven-
ture, be found more authors, reputed Protes-
tants, who justify the people to have a power
to depose and take away the lives of Vines,
than there are found authors, reputed to be
Catholics, who assert the Pope to have power
to depose princes. Yet, God forbid, that I
should call these positions or opinions, the doc-
trines of the church of England ; I impute these
actions to the passions of wicked and ambitious
and these doctrines, to those only who
men
write or own them ; and certainly the same
charity cannot, without sin, be denied to us by
all sober judgments. But if this justice be de-
nied unto me, and those of my religion, I be-
seech God to pardon such as are so uncharita-
ble ; and I do most heartily and from my soul,
forgive those who want this charity, as I do the
before-named Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow,-
and all others who are any ways guilty of my
death, or of my not obtaining my pardon, or of
rejoicing at the shedding of my innocent blood ;
and all who have done me any injury whatso-
ever, Sweet Jesus forgive them, they Know not
what they do.
July 12, 1679. Richard Leghorn.
The Affections of my Soul, after Judgment
. given agamst me in a Court of Justice,
upon the Evidence of False Witnesses.
I.
It is told me I must die
Ignominiously,
By the hand of the executioner t
0 happy news !
I see myself honoured with the livery of Jesus,
1 receive the judgment of death
As an enemy to Cssar,
As designing the death of my kio$
And the depriving him of
His crown,
. His government.
Whilst in the mean time
My Jesus knows,
My conscience rejoicing testifies,
That I never yet harboured
In my heart at any time,
So much as one disloyal thought
Against ray king and sovereign*
And the consciences
Of my accusers must testify
A0fcbe last and dreadful judgment,
To the glory of my God,
And the justification of truth,
That I am perfectly innocent
Of all and every the crimes,
Of which they swore me guilty.
II.
It is told me I must die
A death of dishonour in the
Vain opinion of the world,
O happy news ! %
My Jesus calls me by this sentence,
To bear his cross, and follow him.
The judge declares my death necessary
For tbe king, and for bis people ;
The people shout and cry out,
Crucify, crucify.
He who was perfect innocency,
Hath set before me his example,
He opened not his mouth,
He justified not himself,
He forgave, and prayed for bis enemies.
O what happiness
To be dignified with so many circumstances
Of the death of Jesus !
in.
It is told me I must die,
O sweet and happy news !
Rejoice, O my son),
For thou hast no cause for fear,
Thy Jesus hath died for thee ;
He hath paid a ransom for thee ; '
He hath bought thee with his life;
He hath satisfied for thy sins ;
He hath purchased Paradise for thee;
He hath adopted thee his brother ;
He hath adopted thee the Son of his Father.
He hath cleansed thee by his blood ;
He hath given thee his body for thy security ;
Upon his cross he declared thee son of
mother ;
And he now gives thee his cross to bear,
As an evidence that thou art one of his.
IV.
■ It is told me I must die,
O happy news!
Be glud, O my soul,
And rejoice in Jesus thy Savioor.
If he intended thy perdition,
Would he have laid down his life for thee f
Would he have expected thee with so mud*
patience,
And gj ven thee so long a time for penance ?
Would he have called thee with so moch love,
And illuminated thee with the lights of him
spirit f
mj
STATE TRIALS, SI Cha*xis 0. Ito9.—Jbr High Ttea$on.
[526
Would he have drawn thee with so great force,
And favoured thee with so many graces ?
Would he have given thee so many good desires ?
Would he have set the Seal of the Predestinate
upon thee,
And dressed thee in his own livery f
Would he have given thee bis own cross,
And given thee shoulders to hear it with pa-
tience ?
V.
It is told me I must die,
O happy news !
Come on, my dearest soul,
Behold thy Jesus calls thee,
Be preyed for thee upon his cross,
There he extended his arms to receive thee ;
There he ho wed down bis head to kiss thee ;
There he cried out with a powerful voice,
Father receive htm, he is mine ;
There he opened his heart to give thee en-
trance;
There he gave op his life, to purchase life for
thee.
VI.
Jf is told me I must die,
O blessed news !
I must quit
Earth for Heaven,
My earthly prison for a liberty of joy ;
My banishment for my country prepared
for me.
I most pass
From time, to eternity ;
From misery, to felicity ;
From change, to immutability ;
From death, to immortality.
I most leave what I possess on earth,
To possess my God ;
To enjoy my Jesus ;
To converse with angels and saints*
I most go to fill
My spirit with a plenitude of light ;
My will with a fulness of peace ;
My memory with a collection of all good ;
My senses with a satiety of pleasures.*
I must go where I shall find
All things which I can desire,
Nothing that I can fear.
Iihall no more want any good,
God shall be unto sae all in all,
And my all to all eternity.
VII.
It is told me I most die,
O happy news !
I shall be freed from misery ;
I shall no more suffer pain ;
I shall do more be subject to sin ;
I shall no more be in danger of being damned.
But from henceforth
I shall see, and I shatl live ;
I shall praise, and I shall bless }
Aad ibis I shall always do,
Without ever being weary
Of doing what I always am to do.
VIII.
It is told me I must die,
O what happiness f
I am going
To the place of my rest ;
To the land of the living ;
To the haven of security ;
To the kingdom of peace ;
To the palace of my God ;
To the nuptials of the Lamb ;
To sit at the table of my king;'
To feed on the bread of angels;
To see what no eye hath seen ;
To hear what no ear hath beard;
To enjoy what the heart of man cannot com*
prebend.
IX.
It is told me I must die, '
O' news of joy!
Let us go, my soul, I am content,
I joyfully renounce this life,
And render it back to him that gave it me ;
I remit my spirit into his hands ;
I recommend my soul and Jbody to my Jesus ;
I accept this death most willingly,
And offer it with the merits of Jesus,
As a satisfaction for my many. sins.
I believe every thing that he hath revealed ;
I hope for every thing that he hath promised ;
I acknowledge and know ray own nothingness;
I give him all that I can call my own ;
I am willing to die
For his glory,
For his love,
Out of gratitude for his favours,
And to satisfy his justice.
I am willing to die for him, as he died for our.
I am willing to die,
To see ray Jesus,
To love my Jesus,
To bless my Jesus,
And to sing his praises to all eternity.
Come on, ray soul, let us go' and rejoice,
He, who by his grace, hath enabled thee to
know
Thy own miseries,
And his mercies.
He who hath enabled thee
To detest thyself.
And to rely on him,
Commands thee to shake off all fear;
It is not fur any thing in thee,
That he enables thee to these acts,
Or that he loves thee, and will save thee ;
He doth it because he is God,
Perfect love, and perfect gooduesa,
X.
0 Father of mercy,
Behold thy child, who hath been a prodigal ;
Who, having wasted all his goods,
And spent his time in vanity,
'Drawn by thy grace and love,
Is now returning to thy house,
And humbly begs for pardon at thy hattdf «
Alas!
1 have lived as without rtaten,
527] STATE TRIALS, S 1 Charles' II. \G79.— Trial qf Michard Langhorn, p3$
Since first I had the use of reason ;
I have done nothing of myself but evil,
From the time that I first knew what good was,
I hnve sinned against Heaven, and against thee,
I deserve not the title of thy son,
Or to have admittance into thy house.
And though I am wholly innocent
Of the crime for which I am sentenced now to
die,
Yet from thy hands I have deserved a death to
All eternity.
But thou hast made me know,
That thou canst uot cease to be a Father,
For my having often eeased to comport myself
As thy child
Thou canst not lose thy goodness,
By my, having often forgotten my gratitude ;
Thou canst not forget to be a Father of mercy,
By my having become! a child of misery.
XI.
O my Father,
0 thou the best of all Fathers,
Have pity on the most wretched of all thy
children; .
1 was lost, but by thy mercy am now found ?
I was dead, but by thy grace am now raised
again ;
I was gone ustray after vanity.
But am now ready to appear before thee.
O my Father,
Come now in mercy and receive thy child ;
Give him the kiss of peace ;
Remit unto him all bis sins ;
Cloath him with thy nuptial robe ;
Receive him into thy house ;
Permit him to have a place at thy feast ;
And forgive all those who are guilty of his
death.
XII.
O Jesu, 4
The comforter. of the afflicted ;
The refuge of the oppressed ;
The redeemer of the captives ;
The hope of the distressed ;
Behold I address unto thee,
Who never dhvest any from thee,
Who approach unto tbee with Faith, Hope and
Lorn.
My heart tells thee,
That it burns with a desire to see thee,
And that for that end it is impatient to die.
Come sweet Jesu,
Come quickly,
Draw my soul from this prison ;
Recal roe from t* is banishment ;
Conduct me to my dear country ;
Behold the just expert me ;
My' friends reach out their arms towards me. -
O how beautiful are thy tabernacles !
O how admirable is thy palacel
0 what content shall I have with thee !
What happiness in thy company !
1 die with a detire to die.
Come blessed Jesus,
And receive my spirit,
Which languished to be with thee ;
Into thy hands, O Jesus,
I recommend my spirit. '
Acts of Resignation, Thanksgiving, Faitb,
Hope, and Love.
Blessed Jesus, who art the way, the troth,
And the life, behold I do most willingly
Take up and bear my cross, as thon hast
Commanded me, and do give thee mbst humble
Thanks, that thou art pleased sp dignify
My death with so many circumstances of
Thy most sacred passion, as tboa art pleased
To bestow on it.
I firmly believe, O my Jesos, whatsoever
Thou hast proposed unto me by thy holy Ca-
tholic
And Apostolic church; because thorn hast
spoken it,
Blessed be thy name, that by tby grace I hat*
Lived in this faitb, and that thou hast pleased
To think me worthy to die for it.
On thee, O my Jesus, I profess wholly and
solely
To rely, and to hope in thee, and in thy blood
With so much love shed for me, by which I
Firmly confide, that thou wilt save me,
Though most unworthy, I love thee,0 my Jesus,
For thyself, andl beg that thou wilt increase
That love in me ; I am sorry, O my God, from
tny
Heart and soul, that I have at any time sinned
Against thee, and this, as I hope by thy grace,
for
The love of thee.
Several Acts of my Soul, upon the last Words
of our blessed Jesus.
I do from my heart, O my Jesus, pardon all my
Enemies, and particularly those upon whose
false
And untrue testimonies, I am adjudged to die
for
Crimes, of which thou, my Jesus knowest, and
. their
Consciences at the dreadful day of judgment
Must testify that I am wholly innocent, Father
Forgive them, they know not what they do.
Behold, O my Jesus, I am now coming unto
thee,
Confirm it unto my soul by thy holy spirit, that
This day I shall be with thee in Paradise*.
O Lamb of God, whv upon thy cross didst
adopt me
In the person of St. John, to be the son of thy
Blessed mother, and before whose throne thr
holy
Saints now offer the incense of prayer for thy
Servants upon earth, mercifully receive those
Prayers which are addressed to thee, forme the
most -
Unworthy of thy creatures.
O blessed Jesus, who upon thy cross wert
pleased
To suffer an abandonment, to the end I might
Not be abandoned by tby Father at mraeatev
Blessed be tby name, that thou art pleased to
be now 3
509]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chailbs II. \619s-frr High Trt**m.
[530
With me by thy holy spirit, and not to forsake
Me io this great tine of trial.
O my dearest Jesus ! who upon tby cross didst
suffer
Thirst, for the perfecting the work of my re-
demption.
Behold I now thirst to be with thee, blessed be
Thy name that thou art pleased totgive me this
thirst.
O my Jesus, who upon thy cross didst consum-
mate
Thy life for the love of me, blessed be thy
Name, that thou permittest me to consummate
My life for thee iu tby service.
0 my dearest Jesus, into thy hands I commend
- my spirit.
The several Circumstances of the Passion of
our Lord accompanying my Death, by which
be vouchsafes to grace me, a poor Sinner, and
to refresh my memory, in relation to his blessed
Merits.
1. To be judged by a public sentence.
2. To die the most ignominious of all deaths.
3. By the hands of the public executioner.
4. As an enemy to Caesar and the government.
5. To die banging on a tree.
6. To be stript of all my clothes. #
7. To have all my blood entirely shed, by em-
bo welling and quartering.
8. With a public declaring ray death to be ne-
cessary for the people.
9. The multitude shouting, Crucify, Crucify.
10. The people rejoicing at this sentence and
death.
11. Occasioned by false witnesses.
IS. The witnesses induced by malice and re-
wards.
To the King's most Excellent Majesty. The
Humble Petition of Richard Lang-
born, a Prisoner condemned in the Gaol
of Newgate.
Humbly sheweth ; That your majesty's peti-
tioner, with all gratitude of heart and soul
imaginable, humbly thanks your majesty for
jour mercy, iu giving him life until Monday
next. — That your petitioner is wholly ignorant
of the substance of that letter mentioned in
jour majesty's order of council, of the 3d inst.
to have been written by the earl of Roscommon,
as also of the grounds upon which it was writ-
ten; and therefore hopes that your majesty
will not permit your petitioner's line to be takeu
away, before that be clearly understood. —
That your petitioner having, in obedience to
your majesty's particular command, made a
full, clear and sincere discovery of all those
estates which your majesty commanded him to
discover, humbly offers unto your majesty's
merciful consideration, the protestation and
declaration by your petitioner hereunto an-
nexed; by which he no way intends to reflect,
upon your majesty's justice, or the justice of
the judges or jury by whom he was tried: and
humbly be^s, that the same may not be inter-
preted to intend anv such reflection. And
that your majesty will please to consider, that
it is not impossible for an iunocent person to
be condemned, since it is not many years past,
that three persons were executed, and hanged
in chains, being condemned for die murder of
one, who appeared afterwards to be living;
and this without any just cause of reflection
upon the justice of your majesty, or of their
judges or jury. — That your petitioner humbly
begs leave to hope, that when your majesty
shall have considered his said Declaration,
you will, out of the abundance of your natural
inclinations to mercy, either vouchsafe to give
him his pardon, so as to enable him to spend
the remainder of bis life, in the service of your
majesty, and his country ; or at least, give him
leave to live, though it be abroad, and in per-
petual banishment, he having fulry obeyed
your majesty's commands, in discovering every
thing within his knowledge, which hath been
required to be by him discovered; and the
case of vour petitioner being singular, as not
having above any one witness to any one par-
ticular matter of fact given in evidence against
him, as the judges can inform your majesty.
Your majesty's petitioner therefore humbly
casts himself at your majesty's feet, humblv
imploring your royal mercy; and that you will
be graciously pleased to give him his life, that
he may spend it wholly in praying for your ma-
jesty's long and happy life, reign and govern
ment. And your petitioner, as in duty bound, .
shall daily pray for your most sacred majesty,
&c. R. Lavokokm.
■ ¥
The following, among other Articles concerning these People, were
published at the Time :
The main drift and scope of these so noto-
rious malefactors speeches, was to wipe away
the contamination of that guilt, which brought
them all to be the public spectacles of condign
punishment; wherein they observe all the same
aiethod of appealing to Heaven, denying the
doctrine and maxims of their order, and then
■raying for the king and themselves. All which
oaths and protestations! had Ibey been true,
YOL. ¥11.
they might rather have been thought Apostates
from their order, and detectors of the religion
they so zealously professed upon the ladder,
than valiant champions in the Romish militant
church, liad they been such weak and pusil-
lanimous combatants with death, as not stre-
nuously to deny what they were so fairly con-
victed of; they would have been, /deprived of
those glorious cmras of martyrdom which were
<2M
531] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. m9>— Trial <tf Rieherd Ltmghorn, [53*
assured them by him, whom they call Che only
Lord of all the world, the only vice God, the
only emperor, the only king, the roost holy
Pope. ihey thought it was much better to
make but one skip from the cart to Jacob's
ladder, and so to- mount directly op to Heaven,
than to be condemned with an ignominious
load of truth, and penitent confessions of the
facts they committed, to the whips and scourges
of a tedious purgatory ; else it would seem
strrmge to the world, that in the midst of those
solemn protestations which they made to that
God, to whom their souls were taking such a
speedy flight, as they pretended, should so
boldly deny what so many grand seigniors of
Jesuitism have so stiffly maintained to all the
world. Nor did this leash and brace of their
disciples, shew themselves such mild receders
from their principles, who durst so confidently
adventure to beard the laws and statutes of a
sovereign prince, within his own dominions ;
ipso facto ; malefactors and rebels to his ma-
jesty, when they first set foot upon his shore.
As for their renouncing alt equivocations
and mental reservations, which is the ground
upon which they all tread, that will signify no-
thing, when we consider the nature and quality
of a true Jesuit, which is, tenaciously to hold
and adhere to the dictates and positions of
their superiors, as believing what they teach to
be all inspiration. Now their heavenly doc-
trine is no more* than this; tnat it is lawful for
them, not only to deny and conceal the truth,
but also piously and religiously to affirm, to
swear by, and invoke God and their salvation
to attest those things which they know to be
assuredly untrue. Thus Toletus, both a Jesuit
and Cardinal, 1. 4, of his instructions to the
priests, c. 21. If it be a secret crime concern-
ing which any one is examined, he may make
use of enai vocation. As for example, if I be
ask^d whether I did such a thing or no ? I may
answer, No: with this reservation to myself ;
I did not now do it.
Gregory de Valentia asserts the same: If
the question, saith be, be not fit to be answer-
ed, though you be upon your oath, yet shall
no perjury be committed, though the party
swear contrary to the intent of the judge ; such
none does neither lie, nor take the name of
God in vain, uhen it is for his own preserva-
tion.
Andreas Eudemon Johannes is another of
the same stamp.
Martin Azpilcueta, of Navarre^ proves equi-
vocation to be lawful, from the example of St.
Francis, who being asked by certain officers,
'whether such a murderer did not run such
a way ? Put his hands into his sleeves, and cried,
he did not pass this way : meaning, that he did
not fly through his sleeves.
The fore-mentioned cardinal Toletns also
affirms, Thar if a priest be asked by the ma-
gistrate, w hether he saw snch a one at any
time * He may answer, No, for he did not see
him that he should tell the magistrate ; or he
did not see him in a beatifical vision, or I did
not see him at Venice, &c. Many mote ex*
amples migbt be brought out of the same, and
several other printed authors ; neither are the
equivocations of Tresham, Garnet, and others
unknown to ourselves, as these of ftichcome
are in France, who affirmed, That he never
heard the last deceased Henry, called tyrant
by any of his subjects, though he had heard
Henry Valois, the last murdered king often so
reviled. So that it may be well said to be the
Jesuits motto,
Jura, pe^rjura, secretura prodere noil
Swear and forswear —
But the main secret to- betray forbear.
Thus while they pretend to renounce and
detest equivocation, mental reservations, and
dispensations; reason itself must needs persuade
us that men principled and educated by snch in-
structors, are guarded with a good Salvo, for
those very equivocations which tbey seemed to
abjure.
No less, if not more apparent is the fallacy
of their disowning and disavowing that dismal
doctrine, of killing kings and princes.
To which purpose Gawen fell short in affirm-
ing, that only Mariana the Spaniard was the up*
liolder of that dreadful opinion : witness the
writings and approbations of Stapletou and
Garnet ; aud the apology of Jacob Clements,
in some part recited in the oration to the king
of France, against ^he read mission of the Je-
suits into that kingdom. Commoletand Guig-
nardus, by whom that bloody act of Jacob Cle-
ment!), who murdered Henry the 3rd of France,
was called the gift of the Holy Ghost, as is
nverr'd in the furemeotioned oration to Henry
the 4th. Aud who so wicked amopg us, saitb
the same oration, as not to see, that if Jacob
Clements bad not deeply drank of the Jesuits
poison, he would ever have thought of killing
Lis lord and master. The warlike prowess and
renown of Henry the 4th, could not defend
him from the treachery of a bejesuited enthu-
siast, w ho confessed that he had sucked all hia
king-killing malice from their diabolical oratory.
And so far was Mariana from being the sole sup*
porter of this doctrine, that Francis de Verone
wrote in the defence of Chastell, who bad
stabbed Henry the 4th, and John Guret and
John Hay were both banished out of France,
for publicly teaching their disciples the vicious
precepts of early treason.
Nor is there any thing more horrid among nil
the butcheries of the heathen sacrifictrs, than
the ceremony, which the Jesuits use, at the con*
secretion of the person and the dagger, which
they design for a royal massacre. Tor the in-
tended executioner is brought into a private
room, where the dagger, carefully wrapt up in a
fair linnen cloth, and sheathed in an ivory
sheath en nmel*d with several strange characters,
with an Agnus Dei appendant, is at liberty to
dazzle the murderer's eyes. Then the weapon
being drawn, is sprinkled with holy water,
adorned with a rosary of coral heads, -and so
delivered *iih these words. Chosen son of
<5»J
WAT* tUALS, Si Cuaauu a ftttaWur Jffeft TV***.
1634
Gad raoeiva tie swocd at Jepsba, the sword af
8ampaoo,.tha sword af David with which k
cot off Gabon's head, &c go Mid be prudently
esnragcous* Then falling on their knew, they
raamole forth this dismal eaarcism ; Cherubim*
and seraphim*, ye thrones and powers, ye holy
anemia all descend, and nU this blessed vessel
with perpetual glory ; daily offer to him the
cmwa of toe blessed viifcio Mary, the holy Pa-
triarchs and Martyia; For be is now_your own,
and oo loader beloags to as. Then they , bring
him to the altar, aad shewing him the picture
of Jacob Clements, Strengthen, O Lord, they
cry,* this thy arm the instrument of thy revenge.
Let all the saints arise aad give place to him.
An invention of men worse than devils, enough
to anvue heaven itself; which shews that the
wards of dying men are not always oracles, when
they go about to palliate embodyed villany.
Nor man Mariana's book exploded, as Gawen
a*em ; but it is true that case was taken by
the Jesuits to suppress both Mariana and others,
fork* was not alone, meerly out of necessity,
and so divert the storm that threatened them
from the court of Franca. And thus the world
may see the folly of that vain compliment ;
That a whole order should suffer for the rashness
of one man.
As little cause there is for us to believe. That
the whole catholic world should be the Jesaits ad-
vocate. At least the whole catholic world has
taken a very ill cause in hand, to defend an
order that has so ill behaved itself as to be ex-
pelled out of France for murder ; out of Eng-
land for high treason ; from Venice, almost in
the sighs of Home itself, for their insufferable
ambition, and designs of bloody revenge ; out
of ffehcmse, for being common disturbers of
tan public peace ; oat of Moravia aad Hun-
Jpria lor the same causa ; out of Transylvania,
ot being almost tbe ruin of that country ;
and out of tbe Low Countries for their conti-
nual misdemeanors; and lastly* this may be
also added, » that Ferdinand king of Sweden
was expelled his kingdom, for aadeavoaring to
obtain their readmission after they had been
ejected by his subjects.
As for mther Haroourt, let it not seam
strange, far I find they were all alike in haste
to reach heaven before sun-set, that he should
pretend so much ignorance of the plot. For
the reason is plain ; he was resolved to visit St.
Peter in the Jesuits livCry, aad to let them see
he was true blue : while his own letter under
his own hand, written into tbe country to give
notice of sir Edmundbnry Godfrey's death, three
hours after his murder ; aad publicly to be
seen, puss a moat cruel swr upon his late pro-
tested hatred of mental reservation and equi-
vocation.
Now as for their prayers for their judges, and
the discoverers of their treason, in my judg-
ment they might have spared them. For why
should they be so zealous to pray for them,
when they would not so much as beg one tear
from those that were not of their own profes-
sion? They were no prayers of charity, but ra-
ther die curses of their malice, while they la-
boured to scandal the justice of such most
eminent judges, the impartiality of at sound a
jury, and the fidelity of such witnesses, who hav-
ing so highly merited of the whole nation, have
rendered the sufferers more remarkable in their >
ends than in all the progress of their lives before.
»*«'»'
••^^"•••^^-•^•••••^^••i
An Answer to the Reflections on the Five Jesuits Speeches ; or,
General Rules of Christian Charity. Together with the Speech
of Henry IV. King of France in behalf of the Jesuits.
Fan pnrpoaesbest hnown to the divine wisdom,
God has been pleased to suffer amongst men,
same who never had inclination to goodness,
generosity, or any the least moral virtue: such
true ubildren of him who was a liar from the
bngjsnneng, cannot endure any other man should
hs esteemed pious, just, or true; of such our
kaneed Saviour speaks Matt. 11. 18. These
^hid***1 natures combat religion as their most
mesial enemy, in what shape soever they meet
k: if it appear, in severe mortified devotion,
than it is called by them madness, as of St. John
Baptist, Behold a man that has a devil; if it
ansae* drest in the charming shape of love and
sacmhle conversation : then, as the blessed
Jeans, faehusd a dreakard and a wine bibber, a
friend %rf publicans ami sinners ; such children
of perdition, fall of envy, malice and all ungod*
fines*, are ever busy and taking more pains to
serve the kiagjdova etearkeess, and cempleat-
nu; their fatt natasure of wickedness, than the
best of saints do to* arrive at those
mansion* prepared by their loving redeemer in •
the kingdom of the God of love : of tins sort
of spirit must he certainly be, who was author •
of the preamble and postscript printed with (ha •
Jesuits speeches : for were it likely that men
should be so infatuated by the principles of any >
religion, as to die with expectation of reward
from him they call the God of truth, when they
invoked him with their last breath as witness to
a lie, could jt be possible, 1 say, that men should
I arrive at such madness. Yet ought poor limit*
ed and uudiscerning man leave them to the
judgment of the great* wise, just and all-seeing
God to punish them as tyey deserves but no-
thing is more certain than this truth, that the
God of truth hates falsehood above all things;
and therefore vrhen provoked both by that,
and the utmost contempt of bis divine majesty,
by being invoked to be a witness to a lie, he
WiH abovaail crimes punish such contempts with
rns utmost vengeance : and is it possible, but
that all men of all teUgiooB, who believe at all
fiW] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. \61&— Trial of Richard Langkorn, [680
the immortality of the sou), should also believe
this truth as certainly as they most betieve there
is a divinity, which gave their sou|s that immor-
tality. Yet dares this uncharitable author, as
if he were the great Searcher of Hearts, accuse
five persons, pretending, as lie says, to dig-
nified orders of religion and sanctity, together
with the perfections of noble learning, which
usually batters men, to break through all the
impalements of divinity and morality, and with
a terrible lie to take their ultimate farewells,
merely for the vanity of imposing a belief of
martyrdom, and to insinuate their heresy into
the credulous and unstable : Oh ! most ridicu-
lous conception, unlikely indeed to bear so great
sway with the living as the last words would do
of the roost notorious malefactors, much less
theirs who by a continued series of good life
and modest behaviour had spent their time, (as
they thought,) in their, service of God, living
some of them to a great age, without being ac-
cused of any crime against human society,
* until this the worst of crimes which was sworn
against them, but that single one of designing
the murder of Cod's Vicegerent their anointed
king, if true, was enough to make black a conti-
nued life of virtue, longer than Methusalem ;
but tbey with their last breaths deny their guilt,
and others upon the bible swear it, these are
but four, and they were but five, those were
persons who had dedicated themselves, wholly
to the service of God in the way they, at least,
believed true ; three of these are men by their
own confessions guilty of many foul and noto-
rious crimes, not yet giving the least testimony
to the world of their conversions by a good life,
all of them of indigent and desperate fortunes,
which they have well amended by their pre-
tended discoveries ; which true or raise, it con-
cerns them as to their well being here to make
good; the others can have no Benefit by their
attestation, (but if false) the eternal damnation
of their souls ; a bribe no man would be food
of. Now if this be seriously considered on both
sides, will it not be enough to sway with the
most partial standers by, at least to suspend his
©piuion of the truth until it shall be revealed
either in this world or the next by the Almigh-
ty God, to whom tbey have on both sides ap-
pealed, and who alone sees truth through all
disguises.
But not to suffer all the dirt to stick, the ma-
licious pen of this author has thrown on their
(at worst but doubtful) memories, we will slightly
consider the strength of his arguments, avoiding
all offences to the magistrate and the laws we
live under, by whom supposing this (scarce pro-
bable) evidence against them true, they were
most unjustly condemned.
His preamble and first paragraph of his Post-
script, tends only to persuade us that these 5
dying men did hope by their damnable lyes to
escape purgatory and leave it on thejr left hand
and at once skip from the cart to Jacob's ladder
mount directly up to heaven ; which no man in
his right wits can believe, except their accusers
aril) swear they told them so, or that be would
produce some authority from popish doctors,
that should not only allow equivocation lawfisl
but dying in a iye meritorious : for as for bk
calling them in the dose of that paragraph mse
functo rebels aod malefactors when they first
arrived, that can be no proof against them,
since the same argument holds against Christi-
anity itself propagated by the apostles aod -their
followers contrary to the laws of .nations then in
force : and to which all persons pretending to
make converts may readily reply in the words
of the Apostle forbid by the Jews to preach any*
more in the name of Jesus, Whether it be bet*
ter to obey God or man, judge ye.
I do not undertake to vindicate the religion
these men died in, much less the opinions or
extravagancies of some doctors of it, the laws
forbidding the one ; and the Romish Church
itself the other; I will therefore only say it is
no more just to tax the whole society with the
heterodox opinion of two or three men, than it
would be to accuse Protestant Ueiigion with
king-killing principles, from the practices of some
called so in the murder of K. Charles the first;
and from the multitude of sermons and other
discourses printed in commendation and vindi-
cation of that detestable villany : but because
our author refers much to the oration made te
Henry tbe fourth of France, I will only by way
of reply, insert that great king's answer to it,
mentioned by Mr. Gavan, which was in these
words :
The Speech of Henry IV. King of France
in behalf of the Jesuits.
1. " The cere you shew of me and my king-
dom is grateful to me ; albeit you seem not to
have thoroughly weighed the things you demand,
nor are you, as yet, so well acquainted with my
thoughts, as I am with yours.
2. You deem the weal of my kingdom to con-
sist in the proposition you have made ; and yoa
tell me it is a matter that deserves to be most
carefully deliberated. And I tell you, you have
said nothing which I have not most carefully
weighed and most diligently examined by myself
these eight or nine years. '
3. You take yourselves for men of great un-
derstanding and experience in the common
wealth. But believe me, I know as well as you
all that hath been in controversy in this matter.
4. First of all you object to the Fathers of
the society, the assembly of Poissy ;* but with*
out cause. For if there had been at that place
others like many of tbem, the Catholic Cause
would have bad a more happy success. There*
fore that which you turn to their dispraise, any
just umpire will attribute to their virtue. Bet
that which I most wonder tit your judgments
for, is, that so preposterously you condemn the
society of ambition, whereas tne Fathers of the
society, with a constant submission, have ever
refused all honour and preferment, as well er>
•The Clergy held an assembly at Poissy anne
1661, in whicfl the society was allowed ofj and
admitted! though not fully.
5JT]
STATE TRIALS, SI Chaalbs II. l479.~/br High Treason.
[5%
desisafticaJss political: and which is more, they
bari themselves by vow not only not to aspire to
honours, but even to refute the same when they
ate freely offered onto them. Consider tbeir
whole cuuite of life, and you thall find that all
their ambition is to labour for to help ail, and
that without any pretence of interest or gain.
Tear valae net the ezpeoces of their own pains,
so they may profit many.
5. But you call to question the very name
of the Society of Jesus, and for that you
tax them. But see with what reason, for if they
mast be blamed for that holy name, what shall
we say for those religious persons who take
their name from the most blessed Trinity ? and
your daughters here .at Paris ; what will you
think of them that call themselves Daughters of
God? Finally how will you censure my knights,
who are called of the Holy Ghost ? Truly I do
not more dislike them that take tbeir name
from Christ, than any other.
6. You object the divines of Sorbon con-
demned the Jesuits. I do not deny it. But
they condemned them, being innocent, unknown,
and unheard. For this I call to witness, those
wry divines themselves, who now admit them,
whom their predecessors banished, and honour
them whom they contemned ; nay they praise
now and extoll those that were condemned, and
stick not to take them for their directors, and
masters, in all kind of learning.
7. You tell me Jesuits have hitherto remain-
ed in France only by connivance. Here I ac-
knowledge, and reverence the divine provi-
dence, that hath reserved this honour for me,
not yet achieved by others, that I should es
tabbsh in this realm the Society of Jesus, which
hitherto hath had no settled abode in France.
My predecessors have received the society, I
will patronize and preserve them.
8. Peradventure you will turn to the Jesuits
discredit, that for which you ought to praise
sad honour them : the University of Paris ear-
nestly and openly opposed them. And what,
I pray, was the cause of this opposition ? All
was, that the Fathers did not only eqoal others
in learning and industry, but also went far be-
yond them. A clear testimony of this is the great
Bomber of youths that frequented the Fathers
Schools, where (together with learning) they
learnt virtue. But to stop this opposition, I
will make a decree that the universities of
ftris shall no more oppose them. And this
yea will be glad of.
9. But you will tell me, that the ablest of
year parliament got not their learning of the
Jesuits, this I will not much gainsay. For the
shiest of you, at they excel in learning so they
exceed in years. These got tbeir learning in
foreign nations, before the society set foot in
France. Others did not so, and so I am cer-
tain they think and speak otherwise. And
what need they speak ? the matter itself speaks.
We ourselves taw how at the departore of the
nciety out of France, all the muses seemed to
depart Oar University was desert and raourn-
«Jt those came seldom at it, who before in
great numbers frequented the Fathers. Yea
many departed the realm, and forsook their
country to study in the Society's Schools; nor
could your decrees or threats stop them.
19. You say the Fathers joined themselves to
the League, that is not to be imputed to their
fault, but to the iniquity of the times. But
this I persuade myself, apon the assurance I
have of the integrity of their consciences,' that
they will become such towards me, as it be-
hoveth them, who, mindful of benefits, desire
to shew themselves most grateful.
1 1. Now some of you impose on the Fathers
a new crime, aud peradventure as yet unheard
of, sayiog, that they draw to their order young
men of the most forwardness and best dispo-
sitions An unpardonable crime; yet I praise
them and esteem them particularly for this that
you condemn. Do not we, though in a dif-
ferent matter, do the selfsame? A captain
that is to raise soldiers, does lie not cull out
the choicest, and leave the meanest and least
hopeful ? In your parliament, when you choose
a new court, or fill up an old, do you prefer
the unlearnedest, and least apt for business ? If
the Jesuits put unlearned masters in their
schools, or in their churches ignorant preachers,
would you not with reason blame them ? What
offence is it that the Jesuits should provide the
fittest they can, both for church ana schools.
19. That slander which concerns the Jesuits
treasure, is as false as common. Go visit all the
colleges in France, search all their treasures,
sum altogether, and you will scarce find
twelve, or at most 15,000 crowns. I know
well how poor and slender furniture and pro-
vision was both at Lyons and Bourges. Never-
theless SO or 40 persons were to be fed in each
of those colleges ; whereas their yearly reve-
nues was scarcely sufficient for eight masters.
13. The vow of obedience with which they
tie themselves to the pope doth not oblige
them to be more faithful to externes, than to us.
Neither is there in that vow any thing contrary
to the oath which they will swear unto roe.
They will attempt nothing (I am sure) against
their prince. That vow to the pope, bindeth
them to go to barbarous and savage nations
that they may reduce them to the Catholic
church. The whole world testifietb that the
remotest regions of the Indies, together with
infinite heretics, have been by their pains and
learned endeavours brought to Christ s fold. I
remember I have often said, that if the labour
of the Spanish Father be so profitable for Spain,
why should not France with reason expect the
same ? Is that kingdom more fortunate and
flourishing than this? Spaiu is loved by the
Spaniards, and why should the French hate
their native soil ?
14. But as you are wont to say, those men
seek to he admitted into provinces and king-
doms what way soever they can. Pray you it
this an offence ? It is the custom of all that
follow the instinct of nature. I. myself, by
what means I could, sought to get my crown.
Howsoever we cannot admire the Fathers coin
Sm]. , STATE TRIALS, SI Charles IL 1%1±— Trial <tf RkMard Lmtghorn, [MO
stent patience whereby they go through so
great and hard matters, and hear so nanny and
so heavy crosses.
15. Neither do X esteem them- the worse,
for that*hey be so-observant of their rules-end
constitutions. This is that whereby the society
doth increase, flourish and belter itself every
day more and more. For this reason I thought
not good to change any of their constitutions
or rules, though X have made some change in
others, which was not approved of all. But
that is no matter.
Id. The Fathers of the society bath many
back friends, among some chat seem holy and
religious persons, who speak ill of them. This
no wise man will wonder at. Our age is net
come to that sanctity, that ignorance should
cease to hate learning, or corruption of maimers
leave to eovy integrity of life. It was so in
times past, and so it is still. Theee moths
always gnawing on learned works. No pros-
perity so circumspect, that can escape the
tooth of malice, hatred and envy, always at-
tended the highest things. I observed, when it
was consulted about the recalling of the Jesuits
into France, that two sorts of men dioSspeciaUy
oppose themselves, heretics, and loose living
church-men : the one. was moved thereunto by
their bad faith, the other by their bad lire. Bat
I am so for from being hereby moved to alter
my intended purpose, that I am more con-
firmed in my resolution.
17 . The Fathers of the society speak and think
honourable of the pope, so they should, and so
do I ; I join with them, since 1 am certain that
in averring and defending the pope's authority,
they differ not from other Catholic divines.
18. Neither did their doctrine ever give' oc-
casion to clergymen to deny uie tribute. Now
is there any to be found whom these Fathers
words or books animated to killing of kings.
Whatsoever some have patched together to bring
them to discredit, is all a fiction and mere fable.
Thirty years and more are passed since the
Fathers began to instruct the youth of France
both in virtue and learning. Of these some
have gone through with all their studies in their
schools. Others have broke off, - and applied
themselves to physic or law. Tell me whether
any of these ever learnt of their masters to lay
hands upon kings, and to kill theoW I tell you
the Fathers are so clear, that they are content
to appeal even to their enemies judgment.
There are some pulpit-men, among the heretics,
who were trained up in the Fathers schools :
ask these men their judgment concerning the
Jesuits lives and doctrine e but whose cause
is so good as to desire to be tried by enemies I
•Yet I am sure m their case this has been done,
the ministers have been asked their judgments
of the Jesuits : and they have given no other
answer, but, that she Jesuits lives cannot be re-
prehended, and for their doctrine, that it is in
too cleat a sun for to be questioned. Surely
few can be found that will dare to stand to
their enemies judgment, their security of eon*
science mast needs be great, that mars net any
adversaries verdict.
1& The- confession of Beitiere, who at-
tempted against my person,, doth not infringe
that which I have said. For to far wae any
Jesuit from that fact (which you nevertheless
affirm) that one of these Fathers of good credit
advised roe of it in time, and another of them
dehorted and deterred Baniere from his at-
tempt, proposing to him God's heavy judgments
due to such malefactors.
SO. As for Catel, all imaginable torments
were not able to wrest the least word against
Varedius or any one Father of the society. If
this be not so, why spared you the guilty 1
Why let you them go when you had them fast ?
Why punished you them not according to your
laws and court r
21. But to grant you that that never was;
suppose some one of the society had attempted
apunst my person. Will you condemn all the
apostles lor one Judas ? shall the punishment
light on my head, for whaUoevor aoy of the sol*,
diers shall trespass in military license i I ac-
knowledge the band of God, whose will it was to
have me pressed and humbled at that time ;
(he same hand raised me, and set me safe
again. God's goodness and providence be thank*
ed. I have learnt to forget and forgive in-
juries for God's sake, as I wiUingly do for that
king who is greater ihau myself. And now I
will be so far from remembering injuries done
unto me, or revenging the seme, that I will,
daily offirr up prayers for my enemies. All of
us have need of God's mercy, which is no ways
better to be obtained, then by promptly and
readily pardooiag those who have offended us,"
Now it is plain by this discourse, that that
great and wise prince had well considered
what be spoke of; and had he wand their doc-
trine to be such as is pretended, be would have
been toe .nearly concerned to have become
their advocate and protector.
A* for the pretended horrid ceremony for
consecrating a person and dagger, designed tor
a royal massacre. I will only speak of it in
the author's own words ; that it is an invention
of men worse than devils, a lie indeed of so
impudent a nature, that it is enough to aranae
heaven itself, to see how devils incarnate can
out-do in malice the spirits of everlasting dark-
ness.
Let any impartial eye observe the coontnesv
our author sums up to banish the Jesuits ; end,
besides that, he will find fabe causes assigned-
iu most, if not all the examples ; he does in ens
laat overthrow alf that he has said, for if Fee*
dinando king of Sweden was expelled hie king*
does for endeavouring the re*aamission of the
Jesuits, then it is as plain that be did not be-
lieve they held tenets destructive to kings, as
it it that these did who destroyed hu% at much
as in them lay by expelling him has ksngdoem.
for defending the Jesuits. Thus maliee make*,
men blind : out above all, who can besJeeej
him, when he says Father HaronurVs tettav
ab^sA sir Bdnmndbiu^ Godn^'s naurder writ-
ten tsve* been elker * wat den* is saambliciw.
Ml]
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles H. 1079.— /or High lYeaxm.
[549
to be seen, when any man thai reads the trial
amy perceive it could not be produced ; and if
it-were found since, and so public as he pre-
tends, tie doubt our anther would have as weH
seated, as referred te it, for doing so- would
have been worth all he hath said.
As to their prayers for Ae judges and accusers,
in ray judgment they were more bkety to pro-
ceed from charity than malice, let our good
nateretl author he of another opinion if he
pleases, but his reason for the contrary is none;
for it is well known St. Stephen at his stoning
did the same, and yet desired neither prayers
nor tears of those that were not of his own pro-
fession ; but it Is true those prayers may be-
come curses to the witnesses, if the deposition
teainst them be as false, as it is evident some
of what they have deposed to king and council
bath been, as 1 could instance in the case of
Den John, and divers other mutters, if I were
minded to disparage the king's witnesses, as
they call them : but this I cannot forbear ob-
serving, that it may be justly said of some of
them, as doctor Don says of witches, that they
confess things impossible. But leaving them to
the great Judge of all things, I will only remind
them of this truth, that if they betray innocent
blood for gam, and make God's name contemp-
tible, by invoking it to a falsehood ; no equi-
vocattou, nor mental reservation, will shelter
them from his dreadful vengeance which be in
Jhs due time will visit them with : and it is a
thousand to one be will for terror to others and
despair to themselves, make them the most
miserable nnd contemptible wretches breathing
in this world; but if they have sworn truth, let
mem give a lustre to it by amending their
fives, that they and the nation they have saved
by their discoveries may glory in one another,
to the confusion and destruction not only of
these, but all other its enemies.
But to conclude, I will desire but any rea-
sonable man to consider the absurdity of their
arguing, who pretend that not only these last
five, but the eight others condemned by the
same evidence, had dispensations to die with
Ens In their mouths : and that by the doctrine
of equivocation- and mental' reservation, they
and all other papists can say and swear any
thing, when it is plain to all the world, that
nothing but their fearing to swear falsely lays
them liable to the laws against popery ; can it
he believed that men who forfeit peerage,
offices of honour, trust, power and profit, lose
two thirds of their estates, and make themselves
more obnoxious to more severe laws than ever
was in force against Christianity during the first
ten persecutions, and aft this because they will
not swear against conscience, can have dispen-
sations so convenient to their earthly well being,
and make no use of them ; nothing can be
amre contradictory to human reason than these
calomnieSf nor can any indifferent person chnse
but see through such absurd contradictions. In
fine there has thirteen men, of which one a
Protestant, have died already by the accusa-
tion of these four witnesses, all have gone out
of the world absolutely denying the matters
they were accused of, any one of them might
have secured a pardon by confessing nis
charge ; they have been all of them of ap-
proved honest conversation in their several call-
ings during the rest of their lives, and yet we
must not believe one tittle of their last words
spoke so plainly, (if false) to their destruction
both here and hereafter ; to their destruction,
and not the least to their interest : yet on the
contrary we are not so much as allowed to
doubt the fidelity of their accusers,, though men
notorious for scandalous and wicked lives ; men
who from abject qualities assume to themselves
by this means dignities, and pretend to honours
and titles ; and who from the eitremest po-
verty and necessity are advanced to opulency
and plenty for accusing persons of consulting ^
with them about affairs of so nigh a nature as
the alteration of kingdoms, and murdering the
best of monarchs. Persona of such Qualities
and fortunes, as would with Job have disdained
to set them with the dogs of their flock, who
if they would have made use of such pitiful in-
struments, would certainly have taken care for
their support, and not have seconded their im-
prudent election of such counsellors in matter
of so great trust, with a second error of suffer-
ing them to want when they had trusted them,
but would have provided for them as those we
see do sufficiently, who now make use of their
service ; but though we may not call them
perjured persons until convicted, which their
protectors will easily prevent, by not per*
mitting them to be indicted, yet none can deny
us the liberty of thinking that men will easily
discern the difference between the dying and
the living testimonies, let their pretences and
lies be never so many ; but to the God of truth
we refer both causes, not doubting but in his
good time all these secrets will be brought to
light to his everlasting glory.
P. S. Since the former, there is come forth
another paper, called * An Answer to the Je-
suits Speeches, by EsraeJ Tongue, D. D.' full
fraught with labour and studied falsehoods, but
so plainly malicious, that nobody who had not
been a witness of the success of their ill spun
improbable stories in their first pretended dis-
coveries, could have had the least hope, these
should have prevailed with one men, so con-
trary to the sentiments of human nature. No,
we all too w^ell know sophistry vanishes at the
approach of infallible death, and that Dr.
Tongue, and the mure hardened impostor his
companion in title and design, will find at the
approach of that grim usher to their eternal
abodes, no resolution but a -good conscience .
can make them follow him smiling, this truth
writ with an indelible character in every breast
will save us a labour to answer his frivolous
anatomizing those mens last words, delivered
so cheerfully and heartily at their execution;
only we may safely make reflection on the las?
paragraph of his impious and uncharitable
paper, where he says, It is no more than they
6
S43] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Chahle* II. 1070.— Trial qf Richard Ltmghorn, [544
expected, a troth undeniable at to him and his
companions, who cannot but be conscious to
themselves whether the evidence given against
them be true or false, and from that might well
expect their denial, which no man else that be-
lieved them guilty did or could : But it is in
vain to warn thinking people from making
natural reflections on these mens dying words,
until it be proved that they made it their prac-
tice to violate all laws human and divine, by
better evidence than such aa have been noto-
riously guilty of doing so, by a continued
ries of cheating, stealing, robberies, perjury
and buggery, and all other unnatural crime*
and uncleannesses sufficiently known, and
above denial public to the whole world; but
what truth can be expected from a low spirited
wretch; who for a little money (of which, he
complains he has been cousenca too} can be
cootented to debase his character of divine
to be the xany or deputy devil to such mounte-
banks.
Anmimadversions on the last Speeches of the five Jesuits, viz.
Thomas White alias Whitebread, Provincial of the Jesuits
in England; Wjlliam Harcourt, Pretended Rector of Lon-
don ; John Fenwick, Procurator for the Jesuits in England ;
John Gavan alias Gawen, and Anthony Turner; who
were all executed at Tyburn for High Treason in conspiring
the Death of the King, &c. June 20, 1679.
Pbotestants, who make conscience of their
words, and count it a horrid crime to speak
otherwise than they think when they are dying,
may be ready to take the measures of others
by themselves, and to judge those guiltless,
who, when they are dying, assert their inno-
cency with the highest asseverations. But
they will see reason to judge otherwise, if they
take notice how full and clear the evidence is
by which these Jesuits were cast, and withal
understand the principles of the persons exe-
cuted, and their associates, which they were
greatly concerned to put in practice, are such
as destroy all confidence in their words living
and dying. For by the common doctrine
taught and received amongst them, tbey are
furnished with expedients whereby they, may
deny what is most true, and affirm what is most
false; and that with most solemn oaths or
dreadful imprecations, and vet neither lie, nor
be forsworn, nor any way sin in the least de-
gree; and so may without any scruple endea-
vour to deceive others by the use of such false-
ness, as at other times, so even wheu they are
dying. Their principal artifice, to wave others,
is that which they call mental equivocation,
not on account of the ambigoousness in, the
words, though tbey may make their advantage
of this also; but because of a double sense in
tome proportion, partly expressed, and partly
reserved in their minds; so that it is true in
their own sense, but false in the sense of all
that hear it. The use of it is allowed by all
sorts of Papists, and particularly the Jesuits ; it
is much endeared to them, and more famili-
arly used by them than any other fraudulent
arts, because the fraud herein is both more
easy, and undispernable, and innocent in their
account, and the advantage of it admirable;
there being nothing to false but it may be made
true, nothing so true bat it may be made false
by this art. And therefore it is no wonder if
they decline it not at trials in courts of judica-
ture, no nor when tbey are dying and ap-
proaching the dreadful tribunal of the Judge of
Heaven and Earth, though truth and sincerity
be then, if ever, necessary. They have the
confidence to plead the examples of Ood, of
Christ, of the ancient saints recorded in scrip-
ture, in justification of it. But our Jesuits
have more pertinent instances, those of the
same principles, and in the like circumstances,
to encourage them with oaths and asseverations
to assert what could not be (rue, or deny
what is not false, but by this device.
F. Garnet, predecessor of F. Whitebread
both in his office and practices, being principal
of the Jesuits, and chief promoter of the Pow-
der plot,f oj wheo after secret conference be-
tween him and Hall, another Jesuit in the
Tower, be was asked before the Lords Com-
missioners, whether Hall and be had any con*
ference together, and was desired not to equi-
vocate; he swearing upon his salvation, reit-
erating it with so many horrid imprecations as
wounded their hearts to hear, be denied again
and again that he had any discourse; jet after-
wards when be knew that the thing was known,
and that Hall had confessed it, he cried the
Lords' mercv, and said he had ofiended if equi-
vocation did not help him.(b) Another tune
being asked whether he did not swear upon
the holy evangelists, that be bad neither writ
nor sent to the Jesuit Tesmond, which he
knew to be false? He answered, That he -swore
so lawfully enough, not knowing then that his
letters were intercepted, and thinking thej
could not have disproved him.
(a) Gunpowder-Treason, p. If 6. a Casanb.
J&p. ad Front. Due.
(k) Ibid. p. 100. Guopowder-Treason, p. 194*
M3]
STATE TRIALS, SI Chau.es II. 1679.— /or High Treason.
[HO
Tr*ik*m,(c) om of the chief undertakers in
the Powder Plot, upon the examination did
confess that F. Garnet was privy to the trea-
son: but afterwards by the importunities of
his wife, three or four hours before his death,
be protested and took it upon his salvation,
setting it down under his hand, That his former
confession was false, and that he had not seen
Garnet in sixteen years before, at the least ;
and so be died. His protestation and oath were
not long after proved to be untrue ; yea, and
Garnet himself confessed that within that space
he had seen him many times. Whereupon
being demanded what he thought of Tresham's
dying oath and' protestation? He answered,
It might be he meant to equivocate.
' Hereupon Garnet thus resolves the . case
about the lawfulness of equivocating at point of
death, as it was found in (us papers communi-
cated to Casanbon by king James r " If any
•Be," says he, " shall enquire whether, it be
lawful to imitate Tresham's equivocating in the
very article of death, upon some necessity, as
to free a friend from danger ? It is truly law-
fai," says he, " and we may prove it by an
argument drawn from confessions y and since
it is lawful for any one to use this ia tbe course
of bis life, why may it not be used also by a
dying man ?" Casaubon, ibid. p. 302.
Hereby we see that these were their prac-
tices of old, and justified by their teachers as
lawful even at the hour of death ; therefore we
should not be surprised, if we find our Jesuits
use these arts in their last speeches ; this is not
new to them, nor unwarrantable either at pub-
lic trials or executions.
Hut their principles are further considerable,
ef which take an account in some several*.
First, by their doctrine they may lawfully
say. what is false, making use of a mental re-
servation, by virtue of which that which is false
in itself, will be true in their reserved sense;
and therefore though it be gross untruth, as ex-
pressed, and they know it to be so, anc| use it
with an intent to deceive others, yet they count
it no lie, and therefore no sin, and so 'they
need not fear to nse it when they are passing
oat of the world. That it ia no lie, they gene-
nifty maintain. " If a man/' saitb P rsons,
« use mental reservation, he dotb not offend
against the negative precept which forbiddetb
lo lie. It is freed from tbe nature of a lie, by
ike doe and just reservation in -the speaker's
tabid (d)" says he. " Bv understanding some-
thing in" our minds," saith Navarr, " we may
snake tbat true which we affirm, though it be
sake ; and that false which we deny, choogh
it be true (e).n And Sanchez the Jesuit
felly: " If a man do swear tbat be did
• (c) Proceeding against Traitors. Casaub.
Ibid. 981.
(d) Mititation, cap. 10, num. $3, p. 494.
(*) * Snbmtelligendo aliqua quibus fient
1 vera quae annuimus, vel falsa . quss nega*
tmis/ Conuo. in C« hiubao. aures, q. 3, num.
13.
VOL. VII,
not do something which indeed be did do, un-
derstanding within himself some other thing
else which he did not do, some other days than
that wherein be did it, or any other addition
tbat is true, this man does not indeed either He
or forswear (f) ;" producing many authors for
it, and referring to divers others (g).
It seems mysterious, that the same thing
should be both true and false; that he should
speak what is false in itself, and in his own
judgment, and that which tends to deceive
others, and yet not Ije. But they would clear
it thus ; A proposition formed in this case has
two parts, one expressed and the other con-
cealed ; that which i* expressed is . false, but
the part concealed being added to it, the entire
proposition is true, e. g. F. W. did not design
to kill tbe king, this is false; but adding some
secret reserve, viz. king Harry, or king Charles
before be was born, or in Scotland, and the
whole is true. And by this device our Jesuits,
though they as fully designed to kill Charles
the 2nd, as ever RavilUc did Harry the 4th ; >
yet they may deny it with all asseverations,
and yet not lie at all (as they believe by virtue
of this device) : they may assert their inno-
cency in terms which are false in the sense of
all the world, yet by such a reserve all will be
true in their own sense ; and so in averring
that which is most false, they persuade them-
selves they do no more lie, they do no more sin,
than the child unborn.
And here let the world judge what regard is
due to the words of those, though they be the
words of dying men, whose doctrine assures the)
most guilty persons in the world, that if they
persist in a false defence of their inaoceocyr
even unto death, yet by this method tbey
teach them, it will be no he, it will be no sin at
all.
This may be enoogh to satisfy us concerning
the common expressions wherein they all agree
to disclaim all guilt. But there is something
singular in F. Gavan's speech, which requires a
particular consideration, and yet it uoaj_ be
grounded on the common principle. I cannot
imagine bow that which he protests with the
last words of a dying man to vindicate bis So-
ciety (for which I wish he were not more soli-
citous tban for his soul) can be true without
some fraudulent reserve, since it. is very false in
itself, tbat the Jesuits allow not the doctrine of
king-killing, but detest and abhor it, or that
none of them hold it lawful for a private per-
son to kill a king, but only Mariana. I sup-
pose the principles of the Jesuit Sanctarellus
are little more favourable to kings tban those
■•— m
(f) * Si quis juret se non fecisseabquid quod
' revera fecit, intelligendo intra sealiquid aliud*
« quod non fecit, vel aiiam diem ab ex, in qua
* fecit, vel quodvis aliud additum verum, revera
« noa mentnur nee esset perjurus.' Op. mor;
lib. 3, cap. 6, num. 15.
(g) Angelus, Sylvester, Navarr, Volentia,
Salon, Toledo, Manuel, Philiarchus, Snares*
Leonard us, Sa,
2N
547} STATE TRIALS, S 1 Charles II. 1 679— Trial <f Richard Langhorn, [54*
of Mariana, his book on that account being
condemned and burnt by the parliament at
Paris ; yet it was printed at Rome, and ap-
proved by Mutius Vitellescus, the general of
the Jesuits. And when the chief of that order
in France were examined, whether they did be-
lieve as their general did at Rome ? or would
do so if they were at Rome ? It was answered
by F. Gotten in the name of the rest, That
they would change their judgments with ihe
country, and would believe as they did at
Rome, when there, though he ridiculously de-
nied that they did believe so while tbey were in
France.
However Mariana had many of the Jesuits
who expressly owned his doctrine; Ribade-
neira, Scribanius, under the name of * Bonar-
scius, Becanus, Gretserus, do partly praise him,'
and partly defend his opinion. Another patron
of the Jesuits says plainly in an English trea-
tise, That they are enemies of that holy name
of Jesus, that condemned Mariana for any such
doctrine. And his book having been before
printed at Toledo with the approbation of the
superiors of the Society, there was a new edi-
tion' of it at Mentz by the procurement of the
Jesuits there. It is much if J. G. could make
all these to be but one Mariana. And wherein
does Emanuel Sa (g) come short of Mariana
in that particular wherein the Jesuit would
clear the Society ? Or Becanus in his English
controversies ? Or Suarez ? a Jesuit of such
reputation, chat his judgment alone is valued
more than a thousand other authors, who ex-
presses himself thus :
" When a king is deposed, then he is neither
lawful king nor prince \ and if therefore he en-
deavour to keep the kingdom under him by
strength, then he is an usurper, no lawful king,
having no true title to the crown ; for that (h)
after the decree of deposition, he is altogether
deprived of his kingdom, so that he cannot with
a just title possess, and so may be used as a
tyrant or usurper, and by consequence may be
slain by any private man."
Here we have multitudes of Jesuits in one,
allowing the kilting of kings by any private
man : for not only divers bishops, but the pro-
vincial Jesuits of Portugal and Germany, testify
their approbation of his judgment; and a
whole university declares, " That there is no-
thing in it but ought to be approved, every
thing being according to their own opinion and
judgment (i)." Add but one F. Campian,
(g) Vid. Aphor. v. tyr. num. 2, p. 115.
(h) ' At vero post sententiam latam omnino
•* privatur regno, ita ut non possit jus to titulo
* illud possidere : ergo ex tunc poterit tanquam
' omnino tyrannus tractari, et contequenter a
' quocunque privato potent in terfici/ Defens. fid.
lib. 6> cap. 4, num. 14 and 17.
* (i) ' Nihil est in toto hoc opere a tjostro
* omnium sensu discordans, cum de hac re sit
»• omnium nostrum eadem vox idem animus
' eadetnque sentential Cens. academic Com-
plutensis.
who may be instead of all. He declares,
"That all the Jesuits spread far and wide
through the whole world, have entered into a
league to make away all heretical kings in any
manner whatsoever : nor will they despair of
effecting it, so long as any one Jesuit remains
in the world (k)."
There is no room to alledge particular doc-
tors, which might easily be multiplied. That
which we charge the Jesuits with, in reference
to the murdering of kings, may be reduced to
two heads :
1. That the pope has power to depose kings
for heresy especially.
2. That being deposed, any one may kill
them, at least by the pope's order.
The former is the doctrine of their church,
and not of particular doctors only ; being esta-
blished not only by the opinion of all sorts of
their authors, but by the determination of
popes, and the decrees of general councils ; so
that hence the famous Jesuit Lessius de-
clares, that if the pope had not this power of
deposing kings, the church which has taught it
must of necessity err : and to hold that is
heretical, and a more intolerable error, than
any about the sacrament can be. And a
greater than he, Cardinal Perron, (in his Diver-
ses Oeures, and Recueil General des Affaires
du Clerge de France) declares it as the sense
of the whole clergy of France (who of all the
Romanists are accounted least favourable to
the papal power), that all who maintain the
contrary, are heretics and schismatics; (I)
For the latter, we have the declared sense of
the whole body of the Jesuits in France (than
whom, none of the society in any part of the
world, were more favourable to kings) in an
Apology for their doctrine on this subject, to
Harry the 4th ; yet there they declare in the
words of Valentia, consonant to the doctrine
of Aquinas, Cajetan, Sotus, Coveruvins, Salon-
ins, and others, That a Tyrant who has no
just title, but usurps authority, may be killed by
any one. (m) Now there is none of them who
(k) In Epist. ad Concil. Reg. Anglii, p. 22.
(1) Defens. decret. concil. Lateran. p. 46.
Er^o tarn est certum posse Pontificem coercere
vel punire principes temporales, his pxnarom
generibus, quam est certum non posse ecclestam
in fide et moribus errare. Here Snares
maintains it to be as certain, as that this
church is infallible, Defens. fid. 1. S. c. 23.
n. 16.
(m) Si est tyrannus secundo modo(vtx. per
arrogatam sibi in justam potestatem) quilt net
possit illum'occidere, Apol. Societ. Jes. in GalL
1599. append, p. 115, &c. Suarez Defens.
fid. lib. 6. c. 4. n. 14. Si rex talis post depositi-
onem legitimam, in sua pertinacia perseverans
regno m per vim retineat, incipit esse tyrannus
in titulo, quia non est legitimus Rex, nee jus to
titulo regnum possidet. Assert it ur nunc tyrao*
num quoad titulum, interfeci posse, a quacunq.
privata persona, idem, ibid. num. ft
549]
-STATE TRIALS, 31 Chaw.es ll. 1679.— /or High Treason.
1560
have the use of reason, will deny, but a king
deposed by the pope, is such a tyrant, a were
usurper, without any just title; and therefore the
Jesuits cannot deny, but it is their doctrine, that
a king deposed by the pope, may be killed by any
one.
Or if all the Jesuits in France will make no
more than one Mariana, let us see if the Jesuits
of other nations may possibly do it. Bomen-
cina tells us, that Valencia, Suarez, Lessius,
Molina, Filliucius, concnr with him and many
others, in this assertion : Li ci turn, est homini
private, occidere tyrannum qui absque ullo titu-
io U9urpat, &c. It is lawful >for a private man
to kill such a tyrant as has no title, torn. 2.
de Fastit. Disp. 2. q. 8, punct. 3. n. 2, et 3.
The premises considered, if F. G. understood
them, either he intended to deceive the people
with a downright lye, or with a gross untruth
under the covert of a secret reservation; both
arealike heinous to us, and this latter worse,
because there is less fence against it j but in
charity I incline to think he used the latter,
because in such cases they count it sinless and
innocent, and not to be declined at the point
of death.
And two reserves he might make use of, one
in reference to the word king ; Jesuits are not
for king-killing doctrine : tor they will have
kings first deposed by tlie pope, or "by heresy,
and then they are no kings, and so they may
be killed by any men, and yet no king may be
killed by any private person. All the kings
ef England, Sweden, Denmark, &c. may he
killed one after another, by the Jesuits doctrine,
and yet by that doctrine no king at all will be
killed. Or he might use another reserve with
respect to the words ' private persons/ under-
standing reservedly, persons that have no
authority from the pope, or any under
him. And this fraudulent reserve, F. Parsons
might help him to who to avoid the charge,
that they held a king condemned or deposed, may
be killed by a private person ; he denies that
a private man as a private man, i. e. by pri-
vate authority, can kill anyprince.fnj And in
this seuse neither Grove, nor Patrick, nor any
other who undertook this horrid murder can he
counted private persons : for they did not un-
dertake it by their own authority. And the
meanest and most private persons in these
three kingdoms, or any other nations, may as-
tasinate the king, by the Jesuits doctrine, if
they have the pope's, authority for it, immedi-
ately or mediately : and yet by no means must
the doctrine of the Jesuits be charged as allow-
ing that private persons may kill kings; and the
reason is, becanse the pope's executioners are
no more private persons than the common
hang-man (as the Jesuit gravely explains it)
though he use but his ax once.
What he adds concerning Harry the fourth
was sufficiently confuted by Chastell, first, and
after by Ravillac, by the most effectual argu-
(n) Sober reckoning cap. 5. num. 44. p.
£22. ?id. Suarez nbi supra, 12.
ments that the society ever used. But my de-
sign is to shew the fraud, not the weakness of
his discourse. Let the reader judge how true
that is which he swears concerning his inno-
cency, by the truth of what he protests concern-
ing the Jesuits doctrine. Both require equal
regard, both being the asseverations of a Hying
man ; yet both might be true in his account
by this artifice, how false soever in themselves,
and so might innocently be asserted by a dying
man.
As for their prayers for the king, I do not
well Understand them ; they would have it
thought, that they had no design to kill the king
who can pray for his prosperous reign. But do
they think that his majesty can truly prosper
till he turn Roman Catholic ? This they hear-
tily wish, no doubt ; whether they can pray, or
no, I know not.
However, it need not seem strange if they
should equivocate in their way of prating, since
they allow of plain lyes in their public liturgies,
which divers of their own authors express them-
selves sensible of. F. Garnet having composed
some prayers for the good success of the Pow-
der-Plot, and using them amongst his party,
when he was charged with it, made use of such
a plea as became such a Jesuit ; he said that he
made not those prayers with that meaning that
the thing might fall out according to the mind
of the conspirators, but rather cross to their de-
sires, that so the safety of king and kingdo'in
might be provided for : So that when he prayed
for the ruin of king and kingdom, yet his mean-
ing was, that they might be preserved and pros-
per: And so when our Jesuits pray for the
king's prosperous reign, why may not their
meaning be his utter destruction? for this is al-
together as likely as the other. But there is
no penetrating a Jesuit's meaning any where, no
not in his prayers; for whatever the words
thereof seem to be, the meaning may be quite
contrary. So it was in F. Garnet's time, and
the world is Jiot much mended with the society
since.
The forces of Charles the 5th having taken
the Pope prisoner, the Emperor orders that
public prayers should be made for his holiness
release. The world thought that he might have
saved his prayers, and given him liberty, instead
of begging it. To be sure, his majesty might
well enough spare the Jesuits prayers, if they
would forbear their plotting against him. But
to proceed,
Secondly, They maintain, that when they
may lawfully speak what is false, xhey may .law-
fully swear it ; it is the common doctrine of tha
Romanists. F. Parsons assures us, *' That all
divines hold, that what may lawfully be said,
may also be lawfully sworn." (o) And again
says he, u It being a most certain principle,
as well in reason as in divinity, that what a
man may (by virtue of mental reservation}
truly say, he may truly also swear/'f/O So Les-
(o) Mitig. c. 11. sec. 9. num. 42. p. 468.
(pj Mitig. c. 11, sec, 4, num. 17- p. 449*
Ml] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1619.— Trial
Langhorn, [558
sius, " As oft as it is lawful to equivocate, it is
lawful to use an oath, if it be needful, and some
notable cause require it." (q) We heard Tbo.
Sanchez before, with the concurrence of many
other authors, determining, That he who swears
he did not do something which indeed he has
done : yet by the help of some mental reserva-
tion, he neither lyes, nor is forsworn.("r) Add
but Jo. Sanctius, who will make it needless to
add any more; " That cause which does ex-
cuse a lye by a reserved equivocation, is suffi-
cient also to excuse an oatj)."fs) And for this
he alledgeth many authorities, (t)
F. Garnet being one day by his judges con-
victed of many lies, when he was brought back
to the Tower, there again he was examined
whether he did not repent of this infamous arty
and did seriously believe it lawful I Or only
used it for that time, necessity pressing him ?
He instead of an answer, as his manner was,
writ what follows with his own hand, and de-
livered it to the examiners: " This I acknow-
ledge to be according to my opinion, and the
opinion of all the schoolmen ; and our reason
is, for that in cases of lawful equivocation, the
speech by equivocation being saved from a lye,
the same speech may be without perjury con-
firmed by an oath, or by any other way; though
it were by receiving the Sacrament/' And
subscribed it, " Harry Garnet." And Casau-
bon transcribed it out of the Jesuits own manu-
script. Casaub. Epist. ad Front. Due. p. 202.
This is their doctrine ; whereby it appears,
that if a person be accused or condemned for
a design to murder his prince, though he de-
signed it as much as any assassinate ever did,
yet he may not only deny it, and yet not lye by
virtue of a mental equivocation; but though
he be as guilty, and his own conscience tells
him he is as guilty, as any person that ever was
condemned in the world; yet he may assert
his innocenci with oaths ; and notwithstanding
by this art, he may free himself from all guilt
of perjury, and all other sin. As they will
have him not to lye, though he assert that
which is false ; so they will not have him for-
sworn, though he swear that which is false, in
the sense of all that hear him : And this quite
destroys their credit, as to all their assevera-
ions and oaths, how many and horrid soever
they be, when they think themselves concerned
to equivocate.
(q) " Qnoties licet equivocare, licet uti jura-
■nento, si necessitas vel causa notabilispostulat,"
lib. 2. De Just, et Jure, cap. 42. dub. 9.
num. 48. (r) Vide supra.
(t) " Nam eadem causa que adest ad excu-
sandum mendacium, equivocatione retenta,suf-
ficit etiam ad excusandum juramentum."
Select Disput. 46. num. 17. p. 330.
(t) Angelus Sylvester, Navarr, Azorius,
Valentia, Salonius, Sanchez, Toletus, Manuel,
Chiliarchus, Suarez, Lessius, Del Rio, Sa. add
Bonacta, Tom. 2. disp. 4. q. 1. punct. 12. n. 1.
Ubi clmns Reg. Sanchez. Azovius, Lessius,
Bodriquez, Valentia, Filliutius, Laiman.
They would have it observed how confident
they are in swearing themselves guiltiest.
" I am not now upon terms to speak
other than truth, and therefore in bis most holy
presence, and as I hope for mercy from his di-
vine majesty, I do declare to you here present,
and to the whole world, that I go oat of the
world as innocent, and as free from any guilt
of these things laid to my charge in this matter,
as I came into the world from my mother's
womb :** So Thomas Whitebread.
. " I do here declare in the presence of Al-
mighty God, and the whole court of heaven
and this numerous assembly, that as I ever hope
iby the merits and passion of my sweet Saviour)
or eternal bliss. I am as innocent as the child
unborn of any thing laid to my charge, and
for which I am here to die :" So William Har-
court.
" I do solemnly swear, protest, and vow by all
that is sacred in heaven, and on earth, as I
hope to see the face of God in glory, that I am
as innocent as the child unborn of those trea-
sonable crimes which Mr.O. and Mr. B. charge
me withal :" So Jo. Gavan.
" I call God to witness, that I was never
in mv whole life at any consult where any pro-
posal was made, or resolve taken, or signed
for taking away the life of our dread sovereign.
[I am as free from the treason I am accused of,
as the child unborn] I vow to God as I hope
for salvation, &c." So Anthony Turner.
" I do declare before God and the whole
world, and call God to witness, that what I
say is true, that I am as innocent of what is
laid to my charge of plotting the king's death,
as the child unborn. T As I hope for mercy at
the hands of God, before whom I must shortly
appear, and give an account of all my actions]
I do again declare, that what I have said is
most true :" So John Fen wick.
These are modest oaths ; they might have
advanced many strains higher, and outdone F.
Garnet, wlro swore in such a tone, as well nigh
made his judges tremble; and they might have
repeated the most horrid oaths a hundred times
for confirmation of what they know to be most
false ; yet by this artifice they might have done
this without either lie or perjury, and with ne>
less innocence " than the child in the mother's
womb." Seriously such words in circumstances,
would have been very significant from men
whose principles allow of nothing buttruth and
sincerity.; but from those whose doctrine bids
defiance to both, they signify little, besides a
warning to take heed lest we be deluded.
They that believe they may speak what is false
in the sense of all that hear them, without
either lie, or sin great or small ; and also, that
when they may speak what is false lawfully,
they may as lawfully swear it, what credit can
be given to their oaths, more than to their
words ? And what regard can be due to the
words of those who declare it lawful to speak
one thing and think another t and no less law*
ful when they are dying, than at any other time?
Those that would be believed against such evi-
553]
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. \679.—for High Trtaxon.
[554
dence as convicted these men, Imd need be
persons of more than ordinary credit : But
men of their principles are quite broke as to
this, their credit is utterly blasted by their doc
trine. They that couot it lawful to deceive us,
will do it wbeo they are concerned. And they
declare it as lawful to deceive us by equivoca-
ting at the point of death, as any time else ;
and as lawful to delude us with solemn oath*,
as any other words ; and have thereby taught
us, that if we will not be deceived, we must
not, as the case stands, believe a Jesuit, whe-
ther he says or swears, no not when he is
dying.
I knew not what use knights of the post may
make of their doctrine ; it is so very favoorable
to their practice, and assures it of so much se-
crecy and innocency, as no other doctrine in
the world besides ; and so may be a shrewd
temptation to them to turn Roman catholics.
If the j can hut secure their ears, their con-
sciences by this popish device may be safe
enough : for they may swear that which is false
when occasion serves, and yet persuade them-
selves they swear nothing but what is true ;
aod so after perjuries continued for many years,
they may be " as innocent as when they were
born."
Hereby it appears that the witnesses from
8t Omers baa no very hard task imposed upon
them by their superiors : For if they had given
their testimony upon oath, as they were very
ready to do ; and if what they testi6ed were
Jalse, and they knew it to be so, yet by this ar-
tifice they had testified nothing but what was
true; and so though they were false witnesses,
yet no less innocent for all that, than any in-
Junta. Though it was as certain and evident
that Mr. O. was at a consult at London, as
that these gentlemen were in court at the trial;
yet by this device, they might truly and inno-
cently sav and swear, that he was at the same
time at St. Omers. Such is the virtue of this
admirable art, that it makes that which is ly-
ing aod perjury, both in itself, and in the sense
of all the world besides, to be a most innocent
and sinless thing, and no worse than a very
true testimony. But suppose these innocent
children (as J. F. calls them) were not capable
of this subtilty, yet they might have come off
like innocence another way, and yet have done
the business which their superiors enjoined
them; lor they came only to secure these Je-
suits, and other persons orauality, by their
testimony ; and if they should have given a
false testimony on their behalf, there had been
so great harm, since a false testimony for ano-
ter is no crime but only that which is false and
r' ost him too, which is plain by the words of
commandment, Thou shatt not bear false
witness against thy neighbour ; it is no prohi-
bition to bear false witness for him, as is gravely
observed bv one of the most eminent divines in
the council of Trent, and confessor to Charles
the fifth, who on this account will have " a
false testimony excused when it is to hinder
one from doing of injury." And another of
their greater divines (uj " will not have him
condemned, who to defend himself, makes use
of witnesses, offering themselves freely to testily
for him bv false oaths." fwj
And for their further encouragement,
their doctors determine, that in way of defence,
and to weaken the credit of such as accuse
them, thty may without mortal guilt charge
them with raise crimes : (x) So Bannez, •* It is
only a venial fault to. charge a false crime upon
a witness unduly accusing us, when such a
charge may serve to refute his testimony (y)."
To the same purpose Ledesma, Orellu, be-
sides many more in Diana, who says, " ihis
opinion is probable enough (zj" (and that
which is probable, u by their principles, lawful
in practice, though it has no probability, but
what the opinion of some grave doctors can
give it). And Caramuell tells us, there are
more than twenty doctors who assert, that " be
who claps a false testimony upon any in his own
defence, sins not mortally (a)."
We need not wonder therefore, that such
endeavours have been used to procure false
testimonies, and forge odious crimes to dis-
credit the king's witnesses ; nor to hear T. W.
and J. G. charge them with false oaths and
false accusations, when they knew that they
were true ; for if it be but a venial fault to do
this, to secure the reputation of a particular
person ; it will he scarcely accounted any fault
at all, when the honour of whole societies and
religious orders, and of the Popish religion it*
self; is so much concerned, and stands in so
great need of such a vindication.
But the argument whereby they would jus-
tify tiiis doctrine is more remarkable; " Why
will this be a sin," says my author, " if it be
lawful in defence of one's reputation to kill
another (b) ;" which is maintained by Sot us,
(m) " Testimonium falsum in favorem proxi-
mi non est mortale, neque adeo quando dicitur
ut idem impediatur injuriam facere, quomain
neqoe hoc est contra ipsum." Prssceptum
Exod. SO. '• sub ilia forma constituicur, uoa
loqueris contra proximum tuum fahum testimo-
nium," Soto de Justiiia et Jure, lib. 5. quest. 7.
art. 4.
(m) " Victorias visum est non esse damnan*
dum de mortal j falsitate, qui ut suam tueator
innooentiam, utitur tfcstibusseuitroonerentibus
ad testificandum falsum jurando," vid. Lopes,
instruc. pars 2. chap. 44. p. 364.
(x) Guimen. opusc. p. 176.
(v) " Solum esse pec ca turn veniale menda*
cii onjicere crimen falsum testi iniquo, quando
talis objectio protest ad refuundum ejus testi-
monium." Bannez, S, 3, quest. 70, artic. 3,
dub. 3.
(z) Part 9, tractat. 9, resolut. 43.
(a) Theologia fundament, num. 1151, "Vi,
ginti et plures doctorps asserunt, euin qui ira-
ponit falsum testimonium alicui, ut suaiu justi*
tiamtt honorem defendat, non peceare morta*
liter."
(b) Gnjmen. itrid. p. 177. »
455] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Richard Langhorn, £556
Bannez, Salonius, Arragon and others, with
whom Diana concurs, affirming it to be their
common doctrine. Amicus (c) the Jesuit thus
delivers it ;
'*»It will be lawful for a clergyman or a reli-
gious person, to kill him who threatens to
charge him or his religion with great crimes,
when there is no other way of defence, as there
seems to be none, if the accuser be ready to de-
clare those crimes to great persons, unless he
be killed."
He that observes this, will not wonder if tbey
did- not scruple to murder sir £. Godfrey, or
that some priests were so forward to be his
executioners; nay, it threatens those who are
no way so dangerous to them and their reli-
gion, as his discovery was like to prove, if they
had not prevented it by this their sinless expe-
dient, a most barbarous murder. However,
Guimenius (d) produces very many doctors in
justification of it ; and Caramucl defends it as
not only the doctrine of Amicus, but of Peter
Navarr, Sairus, Gordonius, Sancius, &c. and as
a consequence of it, resolves another case thus :
If a religious man, yielding to the frailty of the
flesh, do lie with a mean woman, who counting
it an honour to have prostituted herself to so
great a person, does divulge it, and so disparage
him, he may on this account kill ber (e).
So that no sorts of persons must escape with
life, who have not a great regard of their ho-
nour, who both by their principles and prac-
tices, are the greatest dishonour to the Chris-
tian, name, of any, that ever pretended to it.
But to proceed, M. Serra concurring with
Banner, two doctors of great reputation
amongst them, having declared it " lawful to
kill. him who goes to the judges to exhibit a
false testimony ," &c. a little after deter-
mines, " That the same will be lawful if one
go to accuse one of a true, but secret crime,
when by such accusation there is certain danger
of death or disgrace." But he adds, " This is
not to be publicly preached, because of the
rudeness of the vulgar, as Soto advises ; but
after the facj, it may serve to quiet their con-
sciences (/)" who have killed others upon such
occasion ; i. e. it may be made use of to keep
them from repenting of their murders, per-
suading them that they are not sins to be re-
pented of; they are lawful acts in the sense of
the Roman doctors, or it may be meritorious,
if they be heretics that are slain, and so. they
may be encouraged to repeat them as often as
they see occasion. So that by their doctrine
"*r
(c) " Licitum est clerico vel religioso ca-
lumniatorem, gravia crimina de se vel de sua
religione spargere minantem, occidere, quando
alius defendendi modus non suppetit.*' De
Justitia torn. 5, disp. 3, 6. sect, 7, num. 118.
(d) Ibid. p. 191.
(e) Ubi supra.
(J) " Idem erit si quis vadit ad me accusan-
dum de crimine vero, sed occulto ; ex .cujus
aecusatiooe mihi certum periculum immihet
mortis vel infamise,*' Vjd, ibid, p. 194,
it is no sin to kill all the witnesses that bring in
any evidence concerning this horrid plot,
though their testimony should but endanger
the life or reputation of one particular person ;
what murders will they not then think lawful to
secure so many of all rauks aud qualities as are s
engaged in this hellUh conspiracy ? The provi-
dence of God is to be adored and admired, and
to this it must be ascribed, that the king's wit-
nesses are not all murdered ; conscience doth
not, cannot restrain them from attempting it :
for their principles have left them no consci-
ence at ail, as to these and many other horrid
things ; but their ill success in the murder of
sir E. Godfrey may be some discouragement,
God in mercy so over-ruling it, that what they
made account would quite stifle ail discovery of
the plot, is become a most clear and pregnant
evidence of it, as my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs
(to whom the nation and the Protestant reli-
gion will owe honour while they have a being)
well observes. But that other* may not think
their lives secure, who never appear against
them as public witnesses, they teach, that pri-
vate aspersions are counted a sufficient ground
to murder men, though they be Papists (for
Protestants may be lawfully murdered without
the least shadow of a crime, but their religion).
" He who by whispers and detraction does en-
deavour to wrong or to blemish any one, if the
infamy and disgrace cannot otherwise be
avoided, it will be lawful to kill him," so Peter
Navarr (g) ; to the same effect Gaspar Hur-
tado declares it " lawful to kill him, who by
detraction may much endamage us, unless be)
be slain (h) ;" and Bannez adds, " That this
is true, although the defect which the detractor
makes known be true, if it be secret, be-
cause then the discovery of such a defect is a
great injury (i)." And therefore F. W. might
well send instructions for the murdering several
divines who had detected the errors of their
doctrine, to the disparagement of their church;
why might not he proceed in this way of vindi-
cation, when they count it not only lawful, but
very compendious and most effectual ? How-
ever hereby we may see, that their emissaries
from St. Omers (who have led us a little out of
the path, though not out of the way) have done
but little of what they might have done law-
fully, if their instructions had led them to it ;
though in truth they need no other instruc-
tions, not only to make swearing, but other
feats lawful, than the common writings of their
(g) " Qui rnurmuratione et detract ione in-
juria m maculamq; infer re conatur, licebit, si
aliter infamiam et dedecus fugere non potest,
occidere." De Restit. 1. i, e. 3, num. 371 and
376.
(h) "Licitum esse occidere eum qui de-
tractionibus nititur grave damnum inferre, nisi
oceidatur." De Justit. Disp. 1. 1, diff. 11.
(i) *' Id esse verum quamvis defectus qui
detractione publicatur, sit verus, si occultus*
quia etiam tunc eum defectum pandendo fit
gravis injuria." Vid. Guimenium ubi supra.
557]
STATE TRIALS, 31 CharlbsII. 1679.— for High Treason.
[558
doctors. Let us now again come closer to our
Jesuits.
Thirdly, they may use such mental reserves
or equivocations, when they are urged by
others not to use any, or when themselves pro-
fess and swear, that they use none. " So bften
as good cause occurs for which we may use
ambigoous words or mental restrictions, the
use of it is lawful, although he that interrogates
do urge, that you will speak without ambiguity
or restriction (k)," so Peter St. Joseph.
" When one interrogates unreasonably by ex-
cluding equivocation, he that is interrogated
may use equivocation, by adding some particle
m his mind, by which the oath may be made
true fl)," so Bonacina and others in him.
"As often as it is lawful in his own defence to
use any equivocations, it will be also lawful,
though he that interrogates do 'urge that equi-
vocation be excluded," so Sanchez fm)t alledg-
iog for it Sotus and Arragon ; and a little after
he adds, " The same 1 affirm for the same rea-
son, how much soever the judge urges who in-
terrogates unreasonably, so far as to make the
exam in ant swear, that he doth not make use of
equivocations, and that he intends thai which
he saith without any equivocation. For he
may also swear, understanding secretly that
he doth it, as far as he is obliged to speak
clearly, and expound himself, or by form-
ing some other thought, which may make
his answer true." F. Parsons speaks fully
in bis treatise of Equivocations, approved by
Garnet provincial of the Jesuits and Black well
the arch-priest * " If your incompetent judge
shall farther ask, whether you do not equivocate,
you may answer no, but with another equivo-
cation ; if again suspecting you, he urges, whe-
ther this third time jou do not equivocate, then
the third time also say no, but with another
secret equivocation, and so as often as he shall
ask the like, likewise by equivocating say you
fkj " Quotis gravis causa occurrit, ob quam
licet uti verbis ambiguis, vel men tali restric-
tioue, ejasmodi uspm esse licitum, etsi interro-
gans urgeat, nt sine amphibologia aufrtiestric-
tbne loquaris." De secund. prscept. art. 1.
(I J Henriques, Arragon, Sanchez, et alii.
Tom. 2, disp. 4, qusest. 1, punc. 12, num. 5.
(m) " Quare idem sentio ob eandem ra-
rjonern, quantumcunque reduplicet iniquus in-,
terrogator, ut juret se nulla aequi vocation e uti,
et absque omni prorsus aquivocatione id intel-
ligere. Adhucenim jurarc potest intelligendo
ita ut plane debeat loqui et explicare; vel
aliad mente concipiendo quo ventm id redda-
tnr. Op. mor. lib. 3, cap. 6, num. 45, p.- 32.
•Cum respofides incompetent juaici per
equivocation em, si ulterius petat utrum ssqui-
vocaa an non, respondebis non, sed cum alia
aequtvocatione ; si adhuc suspicans te aequivo-
care, urgeat an non hac ultima vice aequi voces?
responde nob, sed cum alia secret* eqoivoca-
tione ; et sic toties quoties idem vel simile & te
petet, responde toties aequivocando, Barnes de
sqaivocat, pag. 174* •
do not equivocate :" To. ttyis purpose his
words are represented by (n) divers, and par-
ticularly by Dr. Bernes a Benedictine, who
savs, That by Parsons doctrine; " way
being once given to equivocating, you may
without end in infinitum equivocate by speak-
ing falae, and swearing false.f o)n But hear this
great doctor once more with the approbation of
the greatest popish divines then in England :
" For further' direction of the party ex-
amined, let him admit the oath with a secret
intention of equivocation, and if he be more
urged to swear without equivocating, let him
swear that also, (viz. that he doth not equivo-
cate) but with the aforesaid intention of equi-
vocation."/^) The Jesuits in their speeches seem
very much concerned, that they may be be*
lieved; but being conscious, that their doctrine
of equivocation has iustly bereaved them of
all credit with those that are acquainted with it,
they tbooght it necessary here to disclaim it
with oaths and protestations*; and so to give
as much assurance, as those whose credit
is so desperately cracked, can give, that they
used no equivocation ; Two of the live expresly
swear it ; " And 1 do moreover declare, that
this is the true and plain sense of my soul in
the sighr of him who knows the secret of my
heart, and as I hope to see his blessed face,
without any equivocation, or mental reserva-
tion ;" so T. W. " And that you may be assured,
that what I say is true, I do in the like manner
protest and swear, as 1 hope to see the face of
God in glory, that I do not, in what I say unto
you, make use of any equivocation or mental
reservation," so J. G. They affirm, that they
did never design nor contrive the death of his
majesty, and I am confident it was as much
their design to gain credit herein, as ever any
thing was since they were designers ; and there-
fore they swear it too ; ay, but they know that
the world understands by their common doc-
trine, that they judge it lawful to equivocate in
solemn oaths, and if they do equivocate, in
what terms soever their oaths be delivered,
they swear quite another thing than their words
and expressions do import, or those that heard
them do understand, and so if we believe them,
we are merely cheated ; for what they speak,
is not that they swear, though those that hear
them take it to be so ; but it is that which is
spoken, together with something secret in the
mind, added to it undiscernibly, whereby it
becomes vastly different from what is exprest,
or contrary to it ; so that when we judging only
by their words, do think, that they swear they
had no intent to kill the king, that which they
swear in their own sense may be their inten-
(n) Dr. Morton of equivocation, p. 99.
antilog. p. 13.
(o) At ver6, ut docet Parsonius, tractate de
requivocatione, semel data causa cqoivocandt
potes in infinitum falsum dicendo equivocate
ac ade6 pejerare. Ibid.
* (p) Treatise of Equivocations, cap. If,
in Mortoo, ubi supra.
559] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Chaklrs II. I 679 — Trial <f Richard Langhorn, [5G0
tion to kill him : So that there can no credit
be given to their words or oaths, unlets they
can secure us that they do not equivocate. To
secure us of this, they swear they do not equi-
vocate ; ay, but their writings, and those par-
ticularly which were calculated for them in
such circumstances, assure us, that by their
doctrine they may lawfully equivocate when
they swear that ihey do not so ; and that tbry
may use equivocation when they are swearing
against it ; and that how often soever a man
swears, he will use no equivocation ; yet so
often he may lawfully equivocate in swearing it.
Thus their doctrine plainly bids us despair that
we can ever be secured from, their jequivocating,
and so long as we cannot be herein secured, we
can have no ground to believe either their words
or oaths ; and if we will believe without ground,
especially when we have just Cause to think
they have a design upon us, as unquestion-
ably they had in those speeches, we shall in
plain English shew ourselves no better than
fools, and such as herein neither exercise true
charity nor common reason.
Fourthly* By their doctrine they may law-
fully use such mental reserve or equivocation,
which in their account makes their speaking or
swearing falsely to be innocent, either without
any reasonable" cause, or upon a slender occa-
sion, much more when they apprehend weighty
reason, for it. Filliucius (q) enquires, " What
sin it is fo make use of equivocation without
any reasonable cause P* And concludes that in
rigour it ls no lye, nor any penury. F. Garnett
when prisoner in the Tower, being required to
declare his Judgment concerning this point,
gave it in writing, and it is yet kept upon re-
cord ; " Concerning equivocation, this is my
opinion-^— f *) As often as there is occasion
for necessary defence, or for avoiding some in*
jary or damage, or obtaining tome |ood, with*
out the peril of any man, then equivocation Is
lawful." A roan, says Diana, (%) may swear what
it simply false, adding something in his mind
to make it true, as often as there is just cause ;
now a just cause may be necessity, or profit, in
respect of body, honour, or estate. " There is
just cause," says Sanchei, ft) " for using equi-
vocation, whenever it in necessary or profitable
for the securing of bodily safety, or honour or
outward enjoyments, &c." It in not unlawful,
•ays Bonacina, (u) to equivt>cate as often as any
(q) Dico secunde probahilius videri non esse
mendacium, nee perjurium, Mor. Tom. fl.
Tract. 85, cap. 11, n. 330, p. 204.
(r) Casaub. Epist. ad Front. Due. p. 197,
where he observes the words, without pent,
rovera non nisi ad speciem adjiciuntur.
(%) Potest aliquis jurare simpliciter falsutn
addendo aliquid, 6rc. part. 3, tract. 6, resot.SO.
(t) Causa vero justa utendi his ampbibologiis
quoties ait necessarium aut utile est ad salutem
corporis, honorem, res fmmliares tuenda, &c.
Op. Mor. lib. 3, cap. 6, n. 19.
(u) Ex quo sequitur non esse illicitum uti
verbis aropjiibologicis, addendo restrictionem
inconvenience or. injury is like to Jiefal us, by
speaking plainly. Or as they express it mor*
generally, when a man is concerned to keep
something secret ; so Toledo, (*) equivocation
may be used, especially when it is expedient to
conceal a thing : So ranches, (v) alJedging for
it, Sylvester, Sotus, Ledesma, Navarr.
Now no person can be more highly con*
cemed to keep a thing secret, than these men to
conceal the jjlot ; both for the dangerous con*
sequences of their discovering it, and the great
advantages they might expect by concealment ;
by insisting on their own innocence, and as-
serting it even unto death, they might expect
vast advantages. The plot cannot be mom
effectually promoted, than by making us be-
lieve there is none; and it will hardly be
believed thai there is any conspiracy of this
nature, wherein there is no Jesuit; and it may
be concluded there is no Jesuit in it, if the
principles of the society (suoh as these were)
had no knowledge of it. Their denying ell
tends to make all, before taken for granted, to
be again called in question, and to encourage
those who are still carrying on the design to
proceed vigorously, since they may still work
under-ground, and not be discovered, no not
by those that saner for it. Alio to make
some weak-minded Protestants stagger who
hear the confident words of these dying priests,
but are not acquainted with their fraudulent
arts, nor suspect any depth of Satan in «o
smooth language, end will hardly believe
(knowing what their own religion tenches) that
apy Christian durst go out of the world with
false oaths in his month; or that there can be
any device, which will make such a horrid
thing to be innocent. It tends also to weaken
the credit of the witnesses, and disparage the>
justice of the nation; and occasion such altera*
tion in the minister* thereof, as may be moan
for the security of the conspirators. It may
also allay the spirit of the nation roused and
appearing in some heat, against those who
were before apprehended to be the contriver*
of its utter ruin. It may also incense foreign
prince?.' both against us, and innocent Pro*
testants under them, for proceeding against
priests or papists as such, without any other
crime, but what is pretended. In fine, hereby
they might expect to die as Martyrs in the ac-
count tS Papists, and as innocent persons in
the judgment of others ; whereas, it they had
confessed all they were conscious to, it is like)
they might have been rather looked on as
monsters, or incarnate devils. Such advantage)
they might expect, and more they might fancy
than I ran give account of, by delending their
innocency to the last breath. But oa the
aliquam rn rnente retentam, quoties aliquid io-
commodi vel injuria) nobis impendit, loqnendo
ad mentem interragentis, Tom. *,disp. 4, quest.
1, putici. IS, n. 4s
(x) Potes nunc uni SMuivocatione mnskne
cum rem celare expedit, lib. 49
31, 1, 9. (y) Ubi supra.
3
561]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— for High Trca*m.
other handy if they had confessed what they
were charged with, they had gone near to have
broke the neck of their own design, which
seems dearer to them than ail their concerns;
and exposed the hopefullest plot that ever the
society was big with, for the utter extirpation
of the Protestants, and choir religion, to apparent
hazard of miscarrying. They had endangered
their whole party engaged with them; the lords
m the Tower, and other persons of eminency had
been hereby prejudged, and in a maimer half
condemned before their trial. They had quite
silenced those, who have yet the confidence to
question the evidence of the king's witnesses.
They had encouraged other of the conspirators
to toUow their leaders herein, and confess
what they knew, and so a full discovery had
been made of the plot; it had been quite
dissected, and ail the horrid wickedness in the
bowels of it exposed to public view, and thereby
popery itself in danger to be rendered odious to
the world, and renouuced by those that love the
christian name, as utterly repugnant and most
reproachful to Christianity, and to be abhorred
by mankind, as that which bids defiance to
humanity itself. In short they had gone near
hereby to have spoiled an expected martyrdom,
if tbey had confessed themselves criminals; or
at least to stain the glory of it, as F. Garnet
did by confessing something, though no more
that what was clearly proved against him,
being not altogether so impudent as his suc-
cessors, to out-face all evidence.
"Now opon for less accounts than these,
equivocation in words or oaths is in the judg-
ment of their best casuists lawful at any time,
the boor of death not excepted. Nor will it
be any sin by. the help of this art, to say or
what is simply raise, when there is oc-
Nay they count it not only lawful, but
in less urgent cases than this before
Ami can any imagine our Jesuits to be
so silly, so unreasonably scrupulous as not to
venture on a few innocent oaths in the prospect
of such advantages on one hand, and such
dangers on the other band, as did not only in-
vite, bat inforce them to it, and made it not
only lawful, but necessary? Wonld they not
have been decried by their own party as fools
and dastards, if they had not stood it out to
the last, since those criminals are so accounted
by them, who having denied the crimes they
are guilty o£ at trial, yet confess all at execu-
tion ? When it had been • the business of so
many years, when they had been at so great
charge, and run so many hazards to advance
an heroic design., would they let it fall rather
than support it by lying- and swearing a little,
when in the judgment of their best doctors they
might lawfully do both? What though it could
not be done without false oaths, tbey knew
very well they can easily make them true, by a
sly, bat harmless trice. There is not the
greatest lie nor the falsest oath that ever was
heard, but if it were in the mouth of a Jesuit,
with one secret cast of his mind, he could
make it as true as the gospel. Might not their
VOL, VII.
[563
zealots have accused them as traitors to the
grand design and the Catholic interest, so*
much concerned in it, if they had exposed all
their concerns to hazard, by an open and free-
confession; when as they had a way to deny
and forswear all that they knew themselves, or
others were guilty of, without the least sin in
the world? Instruct but the greatest male-
factors in this art, and assure them that they
may use it without sin,'witbout any danger to
their souls, and if ever you hear of any confession
of crimes from them at the gallows more than
from these Fathers, it will be a great wonder.
But it may be said, These persons that suf-
fered were christians and teachers of others,
and not without some apprehensions of death
ami judgment; and so it will be uncharitable
to think, that they would so little regard their
souls, as not by some confession to disburden
their consciences, but pass into eternity with-
out the least touch of repentance, if they had
been guilty of the horrid crimes they stand
charged with. I answer, The Papists have
found out other rules for the ordering of them*
selves in life and death too, than the gospel
prescribes and good christians will observe.
But if they had been better christians than
they are, they would have done no better, uu-
less they had been of 'another judgment. For
how can it be expected, that they should par-
ticularly confess themselves guilty of any crimes,
when they did not think any thing they died
for, to be a crime ? What they ore charged
with may be reduced to three heads, a design
to introduce popery, to massacre or destroy
the Protestants of these kingdoms, and to kill
the king. Now in their judgment, if we may
discern it by their doctrine, no one of these is
a sin. And can you wonder that they died
impenitent, when they saw nothing to be re-
pented of? (1.) Could they count it a sin to
restore the Popish religion in the three king-
doms ; and establish it, by advancing a prince
to the throne, who would count it his glory
utterly to extinguish what they count heresy,
both in these nations and other parts of the
world ? No sore, they look upon this as an
heroic, a glorious design, more -fit for a
triumph than any remorse, and at the furthest
distance from any thing criminal. (2.) Do they
count it a sin to destroy and root out all whom
they count Heretics, as they do count all those
many hundred thousands in these three na-
tions? This looks like a crime prodigiously
bloody and barbarous ; but this is so for from
beioga sin with them, that it is a i>ece«sart
duty,, and as much so as what Ood himself
commands. For proof of this, I shaU not
alledge the opinion of particular doctors, but
that which is of more weight and authority
with them than hundreds of such testimonies;
and that is a decree of a general council,
the most numerous of any we meet with,
vis. that of Lateran under Innocent the
third. There* all secular lords and princes,
* Vid. Crab, tjpB. 3, Concil. p. 948.
20
MM
5G3} STATE TRIALS, S I Champs II. 1 679.— Trial of Richard L<mghorn, (56*
higher and lower, are injoined to root out all
Heretics out of their territories ; and if they
neglect it, their dominions are to be seized on
by Catholics, who exterminating the Heretics
shall possess them without controul, and pre-
serve them in the purity of the faith. This is
qneof those decrees, how sanguinary soever it
be, which they will have all Catholics high and
low. to observe and obey as the precepts of God
and Divine Constitutions. 4°d they are not
excused from this bloody obedience; but for
want of power to execute it with safety tp
themselves, as Bellarmine (a) and others de-
clare. And now at last, after so many years
patience perforce, they had power enough in
their prospect. An army of 40 or 50,000
armed men ready to be levied, under officers
•whom the pope thought worthy of commissions
for that service, backed also with Catholic as-
sistance fiom abroad ; might be thought suffi-
cient to execute this merciful canon effectually.
And as obedience herein is. necessary, aud
sueh a* in conscience Roman Catholics cannot
decline ; so it is meritorious (and how far is
that from being sinful h The reward of their
merit who will engage thronghlv in this blessed
work* for the utter exterminating of Heretics
<Protestants) every where, is no less than
pardon of all sins, and a greater measure of
glory in Heaven. So that our papists may not
puly skip clear over purgatory, and jump op
into Heaven immediately, but obtain a more
glorious crown there, than others ; by doing
such barbarous execution upon Protestants.
But this you may find more insisted on (b)
elsewhere. (3.) Do they think it a sin to kill
the king? They do not, they cannot think so,
if they understand and believe their own dec-
trjue. Their doctors assure them, it is no sin
to kill a tyrant (cj ; and tbey will have our
king, and others in his circumstances to be
tyrants one way or other, either for want of
just title, or upon the account of misgovern-
ment, if not both ways.
When they deny him to have any title, as
tbey always do upon supposition of the pope's
deposing him, ana sometimes, without respect
to any formal deposition, then their common
doctrine carries it clear, and with a strong cur-
rent, any private person may lawfully kill
him : (a) It is asserted, that a tyrant, on the
account of title, may be slain by any private
(a) Bellarmin. de Laicis, 1. 3, cap. 22, pag.
1319. Bannex in 22. Thorn, quaest. 19, artit. 2.
Boucher, lib. de justa abdicat. Henric. 3, pag,.
t?8.
(b) Practical Divinity of the Papists, cap. 7,
sect. 5, pag. 206.
(c) "Tyrannum occidere honestum est,
quod cui vis impuoe facere permittitur, quod ex
communi consensu dtco." Dr. Boucher the
Jesuit, ubi supra, pag. 302.
(d) " Nam asseritur hunc tyrannum quoad
titulum, interfici posse a quacunque privata
persona.? Suarez defena, fid. L 6*. cap. 4,
num. Z.
3
person ; so Aquinas, whom multitudes of their
doctors follow: my author names near twenty
a little before, many of them Jesuits.
If they grant that he ever had any good
title to the crown (which some of them dare
question and deny too in terms too intolerable
to be mentioned) yet they will have him a
tyrant on the account of misgovernment : for
so (as they teach) is every heretical prince.
Suarez describing these kind of tyrants, eon*
eludes thus : " Amongst Christians that
prince is most of all to be reckoned amongst
this sort of tyrants, who induces his subjects
into heresy, or other kind of apostasy, or public
schism ;" (e) and others of them express them-
selves to the same purpose. Now of the kill-
ing of such a one thus this great Jesuit deter*
mines after Soto ff): "A king who is
a tyrant in respect of misgovernment, may not
be killed by whom you will ; but after sen-
tence is once passed, any one may be made bis
executioner (g)" After sentence is passed they
say, but what kind of sentence they express
not. That he may be lawfully killed by a pri-
vate hand ; tbey think it requisite that he be
first deprived, and that must be done by 'sen-
tence of the pope. But many of them deter*
mine, that when the crime is notorious (for ex-
ample, when a prince is notoriously known to
be a heretic) which is our case, there is no
need of a declaratory sentence ; the pope's
constructive will, though he express it not, will
serve instead of such a sentence, having the
full power and virtue of it. So that when it
may be supposed, that it is bis holiness will to
have a prince excommunicated or deposed (as
it must be always presumed in case of note*
rious heresy) though he declare it not in any
formal way, yet it is as good to all effects and
(e) " Et inter Christianos maxime est in
hoc online (viz. tyrannorum) numerandus Prin-
ceps, qui subditos suos in Imb resin, vel aliud
apostasia genus, vel publicum schisma in-
ducit." Ubi supra, num. 1. So Reynolds :
" Facile constat cum qui quamcunque tuetur
hssresin apud Christianos, non minus proprie.
perfecteq; tyrannum effici; quam qui apud
Philosopnos spreta civitatum conservatione,
omnia in Republica stupris, rap in is, et ho mi-
num cssdibus implet " Roseus, pag. 157.
Masconius, tenens regnum contra formam juris
et mentem Paps, dicitur Tyrannus, De Imper.
Reg. pars 1, cap. 2.
(f) Lib. 5, de Just it. qusest. 1, artic. 3.
(g) Licet Rex in solo regimine tyrannus,
non possit a quolibet interfici; lata vero sen-
ten tia quisque potest institui execution!* mi-
nister. Suarez ubi supra, num. 18.
Emanuel Sa verb. Tyr. n. 2. Ty ran nice go-
hernans juste acquisitum imperium, non po-
test spoliari sine publico judicio : lata verd
sententia. potest quisque fieri executor. And
this Victorellus confirms there by the concur-
rent judgment ofValentta, Aquinas, Soto, Sa-
lonius, BaoneZy Sylvester, Tolet, Aragon, pug,
678.
305]
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. J 67.9.-jbr High Treason.
[566
purposes as a declaratory sentence . of excom-
munication or deposition. Bannez a great
doctor in their schools tells as, " This is the
judgment of Felines, and Cajetan, and the
common doctrine of Aquinas's followers," (h)
thai subjects may shake off all allegiance to
their prince, even " before the sentence decla-
ratory of the judge ;* and tells us, they prove
it by i* hat is now alledged, because " in this
case the constructive will of the pope has
always the force of a sentence." The Jesuits
agree hereid, if we may believe Father Par-
sons, who says, " It is universally concluded
both by divines and lawyers, that every here-
tical prince is utterly deprived of all power
and dignity, both by the law of God and man,
and this before the sentence of the pope/' (i)
Their great Panormitan laid the ground of this
conclusion long before, who deteriniiK s, "That
where a crime is notorious, there is no need of
a declaratory sentence." (k) So that by their
common doctrine, our king, (or any prince
whose heresy is notorious) may be, or is de-
prived (and consequently may be lawfully
killed by any one) before the pope has excom-
municated him by name, or deprived him by
any public declaratory sentence. And their
practice is answerable. The wisdom of the
Roman Court will have it so ordered, when the
pope is in a capacity to make an open attempt
■pott a supposed heretical prince by force of
arms', cbefti be publishes a declaratory sentence,
as lie did against queen Elisabeth before the
Spanish Invasion in 1588 ; but when a private
murder is designed, it is not advisable to pro-
ceed so openly ; the circumstances of the at-
tempt require secrecy : and so in this case,
either a sentence not published, or the pre-
sumptive will of the pope, or the general ex-
communication thundered against all heretical
princes and persons every Maunday-Tbursday,
will be enough ; and Guy Fawks was not much
out, when he alledged that as a sufficient
warrant to Mow op both king and parliament.
But they have yet another way (though less
taken notice of) to leave those whom they
count heretical kings, without any title to their
(k) a Nan in casu posito adest semper vo-
luntas* racerpretativa Pontificis — sed htec volun-
tas obttnet vim sentential." In. 3. 2. qoaest.
It. attic 2. conclus. 2.
(i) Philopater sect. 2, p. 109. " Hinc etiam
mfert universe theologornm et jurisconsultorum
Eedesiasticorura Schola, et est certum, et de
foe, qoemcunqoe Principem Christianum, si a
Kebgione Catholica manifesto deflexerit, et
alios avocare voloerit ; excidere statim omni
potestate et dignitate, ex ipsa vi Juris turn
Divini turn Humani, hocque ante dictam sen-
tearjam Supremi Pastoris ac Jodicis contra
ipsura prolatam — atqoe hec certa, definita et
indubitata doctissimorum virorum semen tia'
est.
(k) u Cum est crimen notorium, non est
opus decJsJratiofie sentential excommunicatio*
ins. Cap. cum in nomine, axtrft de JadicJis."
' kingdoms ; and so make them tyrants and
usurpers, liable to be killed by any havd law-
fully, without any declaratory sentence of the
pope. Suarez (u) having declared that a
prince deposed by the pope, becomes (yrannus
sine titulo ; tells us, this is more clear in au
heretical king. For he, as soou as ever he is
tainted with heresy, " ipso facto loses some way
his propriety and title to the kingdom.*' And
that which he minces, their authors generally
assert without restriction, That heretic* from
the first day that they are so, lose all title to
what they possess, even before any judicial sen-
tence. Sanchez (b) produces above forty doc-
tors for this, and himself saith, It is exceeding
probable. And Suarez (c) after he hath named
many of their more ancient authors of this
judgment, tells us, It is the common doctrine*
of i lie j r modern writers. So that by this doc-
trine, so common amongst them, an heretical
prince is deprived of all title to die kingdom he
possesses, the very first day that he is an here-
tic, without expecting the sentence of pope or •
other judge. And this they will have extended
to an heretic's children to the second generation,
though they prove catholics. For though this
seem severe, and it was more favourably deter-
mined in the Cede, exempting catholic children
from the punishment incurred by their parents;
yet in the new canon law (as Soarez (dj tells
us) it is otherwise decreed. And catholic chil- f
dren are declared to have no title, if their pro-
genitors lost it by heresy. For this being
spiritual treason, the punishment must be pro-
portionable, and reach both the criminal and
his heirs. Thus for example, king James being
in their, account an heretic, he lost all tide to
these crowns, both for himself and his children,
and childrens children, whether they be Roman
catholics or no. So that the duke of York can
have no title, unless the pope will take off the
attainder, and then revive the title for him,
which hath been by their rules extinct in this
royal family from generation to generation.
This is the condition of protestants, and all
whom they count heretics, they lose all pro*
priety and title to their estates and possessions,
for them and their heirs to the second genera-
tion : and princes are to expect no more favour
herein than others. " For, say they, " in the
crime of heresy, no regard is had of any special
state, of any personal dignity/ or nobility : but
in favour of tne faith, noble and ignoble for
heresy are equally punished." So Roias, Felinus,
Carerius, Simancha, and Suarez (f), after them,
who adds : " This is established upon the best
reason ; for in matters of faith, and such as
pertain to the salvation of souls, there is no
distinction betwixt Jew and Gentile, bond or
free," as Paul to the Romans and to Philemon,
Nay it proceeds with more force against kings.
(a) Defens. Fid. lib. 6. cap. 4. num. 14.
(b) Op. Mor. lib. 2. cap. 22. num. 2.
(c) De Fid. spe et disp. 22. s. 3. num. 1.
(d)lb\d. sect. 1. num. 3. pag. 775*
(f) Uhi supra, sect. 6. nam, 9. pag. 790.
567] STATE TRIALS, S 1 Charles II. 1 679.— Trial qf Richard Langhorn, [568
" For heretical princes/' saith Siwancha," (g)
deserve more grievous punishment than private
men/' Therefore they who will have all other
supposed heretics to lose all title to what they
possess, before, any sentence past, must in all
reason conclude this, of princes, being equally
comprehended under their common law fur
confiscation. So that by this doctrine the king-
dom of an heretical prince is confiscated, and
his right to it extinct by his heresy, as soon as
ever he is infected with it, before and without
any sentence past against him : and if he or
bis children to the second generation do pos-
sess it, they invade what they have no right to,
they are mere usurpers, and liable as tyrants
tine lilulo to be killed by a private hand, any
one may be made their executioner.
Hereby it further appears with what truth
J. G. asserts in the words of a dying man, that
none of the society, besides Mariana, holds it
lawful " for a private person to kill a king, al-
though a heathen, or a pagan, or a tyrant." It
is hereby evident, That not only the Jesuits,
but other orders, will have it lawful for private
persons to kill kings, when they can suppose
them to be without title ; but then they call
those tyrants' whom we count kings, and so
they may till till our kings successively, and yet
swear (truly iu their sense) that they never
killed any king actually, nor ever designed or
attempted to kill any one; because, forsooth,
they assassinated none but. tyrants, nor ever in-
tended any other. And I do not doubt but if
* Mariana were alive, he would swear as readily
as any other, that his hook was not to defend
or incourage the killing of any by private hands,
save tyrants only. But then I question whether
we can find any (excepting J. G. and excluding
men Lai reserves) who will cither *wear or say,
that there is any considerable difference be-
twiu Mariaua, und the rest of. the Jesuits,
about the doctrine of king-killing. They are
all (or killing of. tyrants hy private persons;
and tie is for the killing of no other. But then
both he and they are for the killing of heretical
kings, for these they all count tyrants. But to
Sroceed; upon this account their doctors say,
hat against such a prince no treason can be
committed : for that is a violation of majesty,
4 crimen, hesa? majestatis/ whereas iu such a
prince there is no true majesty .(I) And by
the help of this, might our dying priests protest
and swear, that they were guilty of no treason,
but as clear as tbe child unborn, of any trea-
sonable crimes, or of any plot against the king's
most excellent majesty ; and so they might all
disclaim king-killing, or any design or contri-
vance of the king's death : For the doctors also
declare, such a tyrant is not . called prince or
king r (m). and therefore if tl>ey should count it
(g) Instit. Cathol. tit. 23. sect. 12.
(I) Ideo etiam Doctores dicunt contra nunc
Tyrannum non committi crimen Iksc Maiet-
tatis, quia in tali Tyranno nulla est vera Majes-
tas. Suarezubi supra n. 7.
(w) Dicunt etiam, nomine Principis non
a sin to kill other kings, yet not ours, not aay
heretical prince, not any whom the pope has
deposed, or which is all one, declared heretic,
either formally or virtually . For they are no
kings in the Roman stile, but tyrants. (n) -Fur-
ther, by this we may discern, upon wbat ac-
count they may disclaim with oaths,, as these
priests here do, the use of all pardons, absolu-
tions, dispensations, or indulgences : For there
is no occasion for these, but upon supposition
of some sin, whereas they did not judge any
thing wherewith they were charged to be sinful.
And in fine, if these detestable crimes were no
sins in their judgment, who could expect they
should make any confession ? If such horrid
enormities may be consistent with the greatest
innocency, why not any. other wickedness
whatsoever? And therefore whatever they
were guilty of, it is no wonder if they should all
swear, as one of them does, that be is the most
innocent man in the whole world. They that
offer violence to kings opposing the faith, and
die on this most holy account, they are not to
be judged traitors to king or country, but Mar*
tyrs of Christ, and deserve not punishment of
God, but eternal rewards in heaven, Reynold*
Rosseus, p. 638.
To conclude I have great reason to be con-
fident that these speeches were contrived for
the promoting of their grand plot, upon which
their hearts were so much set (their catholic in-
terest being so deeply concerned in it) that the
thoughts of death could not divert them. Their
design in that was to destroy us and oQr reli-
gion, and in order thereto, by these specious
words they would deceive us ; kuowiug well,
that they might ruin us more easily, more sud-
denly, more unavoidably, if they could persuade
us that no such thing is intended. If tbey
find us so weak, so facile as to believe some
fraudulent expressions, against so much rational
evidence, and thereby gain this point upon us,
their work is in a manner done ; and they will
do more at their death by putting out our eyes,
than they could do in all their life. To pre-
vent this, I have endeavoured to clear up to
others two things, which to me are as clear aa
the day, and wiK be so, I doubt not, to those,
who duly consider the premisses. (1.) That
by their doctrine, though they were as guilty aa
any malefactors that ever suffered,yet tbey might
assert their innocency with all oaths and asse-
verations, and that truly and lawfully by the
use of a secret reserve, or mental equivo-
cation, which it will be no sin to use when tbey
are dying, though then they protest that tbey
use none. This is* done in the three first pro-
venire hujusmodi tyrannum, et ideo decreta
qua) dicunt non licere principem interficere,
hunc tyrannum non comprchendere, ut videri
potest in Gigante Tract, de crira. lata. MajesU
quest. 6*5. idem ibid.
(n) In Doctrina Hildebrandica, tvrannna
audit, quainvis legitimus Rex, qui a Fontifice
merit excommunicatus, Casaub. ubi supra*
pag. 163. vid supra,
569]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1619.— Jvr High Treason.
1570
positions ; and it is so . plain in their writings,
that i never expect any priests or Jesuits
in Eogland will disprove it. (2.) That
they were as much concerned to maintain
their pretended innocency, how guilty so-
ever they were indeed ; as they were for
promoting their present horrid plot or their
Catholic interest depending on it : and this is
manifest by the last proposition. Now this
being premised, let me only make this inquiry
and I nave done t whether any in reason, jus-
tice or charity, can against such evidence as the
justice of the nation counted clear, pregnant and
convincing, believe those, who thought they
might very lawfully deceive us, when they were
dying, and apprehended themselves most
highly concerned to do it ?
The following Particulars relating to the Conduct before Execution of
the preceding Convicts,, on account qf the Popish Plot, were
published under the Title of
An Account of the Behaviour of the Fourteen late Popish Male-
factors whilst in Newgate. And their Discourses with the
Ordinary, viz. Messrs. Staley, Coleman, Grove, Ireland,
Pickering, Green, Hill, Berry, Whitebread, Harcourt,
Fenwick, Gawen, Turner, and Langhorn. Also a Confu-
tation of their Appeals, Courage, and Cheerfulness, at Execu-
tion. By Samuel Smith, Ordinary of Newgate, and Minister
of the Gospel.
" He who is first in his own cause, seems just ;
but his neighbour comes, and searches
him/' Prov. xviii. 17.
* It is not probable, that such who will per-
jure themselves, to calumniate Protestants,
should be capable of giving aoy real testi-
monies for themselves."
It being desired of me by a worthy divine,
that I should publish what I said to Staley, who
was condemned for treasonable speeches : like-
wise my discourses with the other twelve Je-
suitical and popish conspirators, before their
being drawn out to their execution : I could
not (though with some reluctancy at first) but
grant him his request ; hoping that this narra-
tive may be of public use and benefit to all,
into whose hands it shall come ; to acquaint
them with the troth of what I spake to them,
by way of advice, to prepare them for their ap-
proaching death ? and that I may give soma
satisfaction, to such as are apt to be ; staggered
in the belief of their abominable crimes, be-
cause they frequently avowed their innocency.
Which satisfaction I shall perform in order as
they suffered.
I, Mr. Staley.
The first person executed, was Mr. Staley,
mho spoke treasonable words against his ma-
jesty, which expressly threatened to take away
his sacred life. I did frequently, after the
sentence of death was past on the said Staley,
visit him in order to prepare him for his execu-
tion. In my first address to him, I told him, I
came not to insult over *him, but out of con-
science to discharge the duty of my office : He
received me with great willingness, and said,
He had great terror upon his conscience for
the guilt of his many and great sins; yet utterly
denied the speaking of those words for which
he stood condemned. I told him that the rea-
diest way to be free from those terrors, was to
make an ingenuous penitent acknowledgment ;
and that for tongue-sins or secret heart-sins
formerly indulged, God might justly desert him
to ensnare himself by such treasonable words.
He said, He never had any thought of mischief
against the king's person. I replied, that
words were the natural product of thoughts,
and a frequent prologue to the most abominable
actions. He persisted in denying, that he
spoke any words tending to that sense ; but
when I told him, that his friend, who was
drinking with him, could, or had deposed upon
uath, that he spoke those very words : He re-
plied, Nay, if my friend will swear so much, it
is probable I might (in the heat and extrava-
gancy of passion) utter them, though they
never were intended in my heart. He had
great remorse for the sinfulness* of his life, and
expressed some particulars which I shall not
mention. I told him, if he expected any settle-
ment of true serenity in conscience, that he
must not seek it in. adhering to the Romish
religion; for false and loose principles can
never produce solid and lasting comfort ; then
I undertook to convince him from the sacred
scriptures, of the many absurdities which are
maintained by Popish doctors, that it is a pre-
sumption not to doubt of salvation, and yet
that a person may merit it, which is utterly
inconsistent; for if any man doubt of his fu-
ture happy estate, how can he merit it? and it
571 ] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679.— Trial qf Rkhard Langhorn, [572
be may merit it, what need lie doubt, when
by works of a self*righteousness, be can create
a title, or may lay claim to eternal life? I
judged it necessary, in order to the removing
bis terror in conscience, to inform him aright ;
that although it were impossible to fulfil the
covenant of works, or to attain any perfection
in this life ; yet there is a foundation of hope,
for degenerate mankind as restored to the
image of God by Christ ; whose satisfaction to
divine justice, is of infinite value and virtue:
so that Christ being the only mediator by re-
demption, it is blasphemy, and the highest
sacrilege to constitute or invocate any saint
or angel as a mediator of intercession. For
this is equivalent to Christ's infinite satisfaction,
as grounding (he right of his intercession, espe-
cially considering, that mediatory intercession
• is only the'Teuresenting and pleading the merit
of infinite satisfaction. Upon this, he express*
ed an assent to what I bad affirmed, by bowing
his head ; and applying his hand to his breast,
he said, Sir, go on. Then I unfolded the na-
ture and necessity of faith and repentance in
order to the justification of a sinner; how they
were the conditions of the covenant of grace,
so required of us, for pardon of sin, and eternal
life; as that they could not be extracted out of
the power of free-will in man, but were the sole
purchase of Christ's free love, who by his spi-
rit, infusing the principle of faith and repent-
ance, doth, regenerate, and actually reconcile
a sinner to God ; and so redeem, or set him
free from the slavery of his corrupt will, which
he cannot shake off by any improvement
of natural reason, or moral resolutions. I
stated also the difference betwixt true saving
raith and repentance, from that which is false :
And that the office of faith, is not only to rely
on the mercy of God, and merits of Christ, but
also to give back the whole man, in an hearty
resignation, to the conduct and government of
Christ's word and spirit in at! things. That
saving repentance was not an act of mere at-
trition, which only effects a legal conster-
nation in conscience, from the apprehension of
guilt, and divine wrath : but true repentance
is evangelical, wrought deep in the heart by
sound contrition for sin as sin, chiefly for of-
fending rhe holy God t so that it is the result of
sm holy fiHol ingenuity, and is encouraged by
the hope of mercy, attended with an hatred of
all sio, and a studioui resolution to walk in all
holy obedience. Here I told him, what an un-
sound dangerous opinion that was of the Ro-
mish doctors, who maintain attrition only with
the receipt of the Eucharist, and the sacrament
of absolution at the very point of death to be a
sufficient passport for a comfortable exit out of
the world, or ticket to claim salvation : after
this, and some other discourse, he thanked me
for my advice, and said, he was much benefited,
supported, and comforted thereby : And desir-
ed nie, as frequently as I could, to renew my
visits to him ; so I promised I would, and then
I prayed with him ; and he was very ioteotive,
and much affected with what I prayed.
I When I came again, he complained, that
his heart was not so thoroughly contrite for sin
as he desired; that he was much perplexed
that he had no more assurance of a future
happy state. I stated the nature of true saving
faith, that it was an adherence to free grace of
God in Christ, for pardon and eternal life,
joined with an obedient self-resignation ; and
where this was wrought, the soul-btate was safe,
though assurance of God's love might be want-
ing. For this was not an essential privilege,
absolutely necessary to salvation, but only a
peculiar favour given to strict walking chris-
tians ; and that only at some set times, in great
extremity and need of such hidden manna.
That it was rather of the nature of a rational
short sensation, than the ground of settled
comfort; which is the result of an heroical
strain of faith, to trust in God, when he seems
to reject and. slay us; and that the Lord doth
more esteem this resolute dependency, in the
midst of seeming contradictions, than the most
multiplied acts of external worship. Upon this
he was somewhat more serene in his mind : and
I told him, that in prayiifg and seeking the
Lord more fervently, comfort would gradually
be obtained.
The next day he distrusted his heart, as to
the truth of his faith and repentance, which I
told him, was a good sign that he was in a
hopeful way of making his peace with God.
That be must wait in believing that he should
obtain comfort promised to the penitent. He
desired me to pray with him, and for him; and
to prepare to speak somewhat of the sufferings
of Christ, when I should next visit him. Ac-
cordingly, from that text, '• I am crucified with
Christ/' I treated of many parts of his bitter
passion, and of his sool-agoiues, inferring mas-
ter not only of comfort from thence, but also
of instruction, for our imitation and confor-
mity. I left him afterward in a frame more
willing and fit to die : and coming to him on
the very morning he was to suffer, he told me,
that " now he had more comfort, and an hope
of his future happy state ; yet renouncing all
opinion of worth in bis own tears, prayers, and
humiliation." He was solicitous, if the execu-
tioner should deal with him according ta the
strictness of the sentence, lest feeling any pain
(if cut down, and ripped up alive) he should
curse, or use any unchristian word : which ra-
ther than to do, said he, I would bite my
tongue in pieces ; for I dread sin now, more
than death. I told him, that I hoped the man-
ner of his execution would be mitigated ; how*
ever, that God would prevent sin in him at the
time of his suffering, because he was so anxious,
as to distrust himself, and cautions to avoid all
unbecoming words or gestures. After some
farther discourse, I prayed with him, and he
was much pleased with my attendance about
him ; yet he spared me from going with him to
the place of execution for some reasons. I
cannot say how be declared himself there, be-
cause I was not' present : but upon my whole '
"observation of his behaviour in prison, I da
STATE TRIALS, SI Chaxus II. !67<Wor High Treason. [574
578]
charitably judge, be was a real penitentiary.
It was doubtful to some, whether he died in
the Roman or Protestant religion;, because,
as I think, be did not at last declare himself
either way : vet this I am sure of, that if he
had solid ana true comfort in dying, this could
not proceed from such a sandy foundation as
his old popish principles, but only from self-
abborrency in the seme of his great sinfulness,
and the defectiveness of his best repentance
and obedience, that he might build his hope
on Christ, and his righteousness only, as the
rock of eternal life.
II. Mr. Coleman.
•
I come now to Coleman, of whom I can say
very little, because he had an arrogant opinion
of his own abilities; and out of an hope to be
canonized for a saint, despised and rejected
any assistance from me, either by discourse or
prayer. I offered him both on the next day
after the sentence of death passed upon him ;
hot he returned me this answer (by the mes-
senger I sent to him, to know if he would ad-
mit me) " That be. had but a very short time
to prepare himself for death, and would not be
hindered in the loss of any part of it;** thanking
me for my offer of visiting biro, but desired me
to forbear. I put a fair construction on the
message brought me at the first, thinking he
might be very busy at that time, about some
extraordinary emergency, or indisposed to be
vbited ; and therefore told the messenger, that
I would attend on him on some other fit time
The officer told me, that Mr. Coleman would
never admit roe ; and he inferred it from' bis man-
ner of speaking that message which he sent by
him ; he observed his countenance and gestures
iii the delivery of it. So I totally desisted.
Yet when he was brought down from bis
chamber in the Press-yard-side, to go to the
sledge, I stayed him a little, saving, Mr. Cole-
man, you did not think well of admitting n\e,
yet know, I have earnestly prayed that God
would give you true and great repentance for
your great crimes, stand not out in your deny-
ing of them. Some other words I used, to
*bich he replied in short and quick tone,
" Thank you, thank you/' As I moved nearer
with him towards the gate, he said, " Sir, I
njast beg your pardon." It being a strange word
to drop from him, I asked him for what ? He
replied, " That I did not admit you ; but truly,
it was not in any contempt of your office; but
when you sent to me^t was under some per-
plexed thoughts ; anciror other considerations,
thought it not convenient." Then I told him,
that I would pri*v for him as a dying man,
which he took well, and so we parted.
III, Mr. Grove.
Mr. Grove was executed on Friday the 24th
of January, 1678. I spake to him in the cha-
pel these word* (before he was carried down
the stone-stairs unto 'the sledge:) Sir, I ear-
nestly desire you, now that you are going to
appear at the tribunal of Christ, that you
would dear your conscience and speak the
truth, that you may die in peace : and I do
exhort you, that you would beg of God great
repentance for your great sins. He replied,
" That he did understand bis duty." Yet i per-'
sisted, to exhort him not to trust to the merits
of any saint or angel; but wholly to go out of
himself, not grounding any confidence of his
salvation on any prayers, tears, nor the deepest
humiliation of his own heart. That even car-
dinal Bellarmine said, when dying, " It was
safest to rely wholly and solely on the all-
sufficient merits of the blessed Jesus." Mr.
Grove replied, " That Thomas a Keropis had
said the same :" To which I replied, Do you
consider of it, and act accordingly : for you
must not hazard your souls eternal welfare* by
any -presumptions mixing of your own good
works with Christ's infinite satisfaction and
merits. For the Apostle St. Paul saith, " Jf
justification be of works, it is altogether of
works ; but if of free grace, it is altogether of
grace."
So I took leave of Mr. Grove, desiring bim
to consider well of what I had said, praying
that the Lord would in much mercy look upon
his soul to pardon him, and fit him for his ap-
proaching death. Mr. Grove seemed to take
in good part what was said to him. After
which, be was conducted down to the sledge.
IV. Mr. Ireland.
Mr. Ireland was executed on the same day
with Mr. Grove, to whom I bad not time to
say more than these few words ; Viz. Sir, I do
earnestly beg of God to grant you mercy and
pardon for your great sins. Trust alone in the
righteousness and merits of Christ Jesus : com-
pose yourself in your passage, and fix your
heart upon the Lord, till you expire. Which
words Mr. Ireland seemed to take kindly from
me : and so we took leave of each other.
Here I cannot forbear to give some account
of Mr. Ireland's perverting of a womau who
was burnt in Smithfield for clipping his majes-
ty's coin. This seduction of toe said woman
from the Proreatant Religion, was before Mr.
Ireland was apprehended for the late conspi-
racy. An officer in Newgate did assure me,
when Ireland was committed for the plot, that
he was able to take his oath, that Ireland per-
verted that woman some time before; for he
well knew him upon a second review, but knew
him not to be a Papist or priest at first; for
be was admitted to ber as friend. Ireland's
stratagem in turning the woman to become a
Papist, was thus discovered. Early on tl>e
morning on which she was executed, I asked
her, what hope she had of a future happy state ?
she huffed at me, telling me, " I need not trou-
ble myelf about her, for she was sure of her sal*
vatiou." I wondered at her con6deoce, but
suspected not the grounds of her malapertness.
After I had exhorted and prayed with her at
the place of execution, and was taking my fare-
well of her ; she entreated roe to give her some
time to pray for herself, which she did : in her
575] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679.— Trial qf Rkluird Langkorn, [576
prayer she mixed these words, " Lord grant,
that the offering up of my body to the names
may expiate the guilt of all my sins, and save
my sou." I told her, when she had finished
her prayer, that the foresaid expression smelt
rank of Popery ; and therefore asked what Re-
ligion she came to die in f She replied, " she
was a Roman Catholic." I asked her, how long
she had been such ? She said, " that a good
minister had told her, that if she died in the
Protestant Religion, she was sure to be
damned." And that he proved it by this scrip- •
tore, " Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will
I build my church." So that, he assured her,
that the religion of the Romish Bishop, who
was St. Peter's Successor, was the Rock there
meant ; and so there was no salvation to those
who are separatists from that church, and the
profession of it. I told her, that the priest had
deceived her. For the Rock was not St. Peter's
person, nor is verbal confession of Christ; for
if so, where was the rock, and, what became of
(he Church, when St. Peter so shamefully de-
nied his Lord thrice ? Bat the only true Rock
on which the Church is built, is the very person,
offices and merits of Christ, the son of God,
who was <the object of St. Peter's Confession.
She was attentive to what I said, and seemed
somewhat sensible of her being deceived.
Saying, " She was willing to be saved betwixt
us both." But I told her, she must not halt be-
twixt two religions, so opposite to each other;
and that it was very dangerous to die in the
Roman persuasion. She told me, " She could
not renounce it, in as much as the said priest
had obliged her by the blessed sacrament, that
she should never recant jor depart from the
Popish Religion, as the best and safest to die
in." I convinced her with arguments to the
contrary ; yea, she herself was not credulous of
their absurd -affirming of the transubstantiation
of tne sacramental bread and wine, into the very
body and blood of Christ : for she said, " She
neither tasted any flesh or blood." She also
declared, " That she had no good works of her
own, which she durst trust to, as meritorious of
heaven; but relied wholly and solely on Christ's
Righteousness." Whereupon I told her, she
denied the grand points of Popery ; and there-
fore, was a Papist to get a pretended absolution
or upon some design. But, fearing to die in
the Romish opinions, she asked me, "If she
should not be perjured, if she renounced them,
having taken the sacrament, to persist in them ?"
I told her, that she must not cleave to an on-
lawful wicked oath; but beg repentance of
God, that she so easily suffered herself to be se-
duced. I told her, that the Lord saith by the
prophet, "That an oath must be taken in
truth, righteousness, and judgment."
Now^ she did not, neither could swear in
truth, because it was to a false religion ; nor
in judgment, in wisdom and discretion, because
she swore rashly and inconsiderately : therefore,
this oath was void in its own nature; and; it
could not bind her, the matter of it being
unlawful aad wicked.
At last, being convinced of her error, she
was willing to retract it : but I told her, that
what she did, she must do willingly, and from m
sincere penitent frame of heart. She said,
" She could and would freely (out of conviction
of her duty) renounce all Romish opinions and
practices ;" which she did openly, with an au-
dible voice ; affirming, That she died a true
Protestant. So I took her by the hand, and
prayed again with her, that God would pardon
her former levity, and give her perseverance in
the true faith, which she had so solemnly re-
imbraced.
This was the first discovery of proselyting
condemned malefactors at Newgate: to pre-
vent which seduction, captain Richardson, since
this came to his knowledge, is very watchful,
and gives all his officers a charge to suffer none
to come to condemned persons, but only snehr
whom they know to be Protestant-Divines;
and that always, an officer be present to hear
what passes in discourse.
V. Mr. Pickering.
I had discourse with him before his execu-
tion; but he would not permit me to pray with
htm, only desired my prayers at home for him ;
which I promised him, and he thanked me. I
was present at his execution, because he was
hanged after three other ordinary malefactors.
When he came out of the sledge into the cart,
he had a great flushing in his face ; I appre-
hended by his words and gesture, that he had
elevated his artificial courage ; or rather sunk
himself into a sujlenness, by taking cordial spi-
rits : for he was unconcerned at the approach
of his own death, and no way affected with his
monstrous crime. With an impudent face, a
lying tongue, and antic carriage, he denied
what he was coudemned for, and asserted his
innocency. He was reproved by the sheriffs,
for such impudent lying; having had a fair
trial, and found guilty of the whole indictment
charged upon him : yet so seared are the coo-
sciences of these grand traitors, and enemies
to all order, and well-established government, as
well as the true and pure religion, that they
will hazard the eternal loss of their souls, as to
a futore happy state, rather than declare any
remorse for their abominable designs and prac-
tices. Yea, they stick not to justify themselves,
as if perjury could change the heinous nature
of treason, and wash it into a perfect innocency.
Sir Richard How told Pickering, that be
should have a considerable time to prepare for
bis instant death, if he would improve it well,
and not misspend it in extravagant, and raise
pretences. He likewise called unto him, to put
him in mind of praying for himself; alledging,
that it was reported, that he was a priest, there-
fore he ought to be able to pray, in expressions,
and with affections suitable to his present dis-
tress : Yet Pickering neither warned the people,
to take heed of an ill life, nor confessed any sits
to God, of which himself was guilty ; but with
a kind of rude smiling, denied himself to be a
priest but only a religious brother. Sir Ricbans
5ft]
STATE TRIALS, SI Cmmmm TL lMfc-^r JHsjft Item.
[578
ejnamed of hisrehmon, or
that the pcoplo should bomr bin pray r For
now of has ta$eraity, executed before, only
■Bettered m few private Ave-roaryes, or other
Popish prayers, to themselves. Then Picker-
ing repeated the LordVPrayer, and the A posto»
lint-Creed ; nod aaid no oaorens to any reli-
pees conoerameots. Then the ordinary, being
in the cart with him, exhorted him to express
hiauelf more folly and pathetically in prayer,
soluble to the distress of a dying man, which
hereteaedtodo. Then I asked him, that I
ought pray for him, because be might be eo-
eompoeed or indisposed himself: But he said,
that be did not matter it; he had rather I
should let it alone. So after a strange, unbecom-
ing atapid, and sullen behaviour of hirasolf,
when be desired no -longer time, bis race was
failed, aad he was tiireed off: he hung about
half am hoar, and then was eat down and quar*
ccretL
VI. Mr. Gekkv.
Green was one of the murderers of sir Ed-
sjaadbttryOodfrey. He was born in Ireland of a
psetestan* father, (as himself said) but his mother
ncsng a papist and his father dying, she com-
nutted the son to his ancle (her brother) for
education, in the popish religion* Green could
neither read nor write, yet his uncle had so
trained him up in the popish principles, that
he was a fitter subject (when grown up) for po-
pish pnests to work upon, and make him an
engine fur their destructive practices. This
appeared by their inveigling of him into the
horrid murder of the said sir Edtnund : Green
had sosne time before been preferred to be cha-
pel-keeper at Somerset-house. Hereupon the
chief contrivers of that murder, took their op-
portunity to draw him in, to be an actor in that
bfteedy tragedy. Green was very ready at
hand for that purpose, and was the easier in-
duced thereunto, because sir Edmund being
one of his majesty's justices of the peaee, was
S active iu discovering and committing "po-
priests to custody : his life was laid wait
for several times, not only for the reason afore-
said, bat chiefly because he had taken some
examinations upon oath, concerning the late
horrid popish conspiracy, which they thought
(if sir Edmund were killed) would be lost, or
not so valid in their credibility. But in this
they were infatuated, for the murder of this
worthy patriot confirmed the belief of the plot.
The manner of contriving sir Edmund's death
was thos. As be passed by Somerset-house,
hewas importuned by some of the complices
in the murdering of him, to turn in at the gate,
under pretence that there was a fray within
nV court; and that be being a justice of the
peace, might (as he was bound) do a great good
office in appeasing the scuffle. Sir Edmund
aeat, in not mistrusting their design on him :
But these cruel enemies to the Protestant re-
ligion, had no sooner got him into the back
put of Somerset-bouse, but tbey jostled him
•to a private room, and there set upon him
vol. ni.
with their fury. The narrative is in print, and
too tedious to relate. Therefore in sum, as to
Green's part, who acted in that bloody tragedy,
it was proved upon oath, that be strangled sir
Edmund ; and farther acted, in conveying his
dead body to the place where it was afterwards
found. Green heme, condemned to be hanged
for this barbarous murder, I preferred myself
(as Ordinary) to visit, and fit him for his ap*
preaching death. He accepted of it, and I
went to him several days, to make him sensi-
ble-of so great a crime. He sttfil v denyed it, as
also did Hill and Berry to the fast. I urged
Green with various arguments, to adore the so*
vereigntv of divine providence, which had thus
wonderfully brought to light such a secret mys-
tery of iniquity, hardly to be parallelled, in an*
age. Yet Green was very obstinate, in stane>
ing out to deny, that he knew any thins; of this
murder more or less, Which I told him pro*,
eroded from some or all of these seasons fol-
lowing; either because he bad taken an -oath of
secrecy, or counted it no sin, but rather a me-
ritorious act, to destroy such a grand heretic as
sir Edmund was accounted. Or had receiv-
ed a popish absolution from the guilt of that
murder, aad so looked upon himself as innocent
as the child unborn. Or would not confess
that horrid crime, to decline casting a great
reproach upon the popish party. Yet however,
I did not cease for many days to exhort him
to unburthen his conscience of this particular
guilt. I aggravated in many particulars, the
heinousness of the sin of murder, especially of
this, committed with such perfidious and cruel
circumstances. Yet no arguments prevailed
with him to acknowledge it.
I found hhn ignorant in the principles of the
christian faith ; therefore I took the more pains
to inform him of the danger of dying in the
Romish persuasion, which is grossly opposite,
by the mixture of many absurd traditions, to
the saving fundamentals of Christianity. He
said, that he did not believe many points of
popery ; viz. The power of priestly absolution
nor the merits of good works to claim salvation
by : Nor that it was lawful to pray to airy saint
or angel: And that no sin was venial in its own
nature, though it were never so small. I much
wondered, that he should say, he believed not
any of these popish points ; and yet, that be
should wear a crucifix at bis girdle. I desired
him, not to put any religion in looking on it,
nor in kissing of it. He said he put no confi-
dence of salvation in it ; only, fy was a remem-
brance of bis blessed Saviour, I told him,
that Christ had left no such, nor any other me*
moriats of himself, but only in the scriptures of
sacred truth, and in the sacraments : That it ts
the office of the holy spirit, to bring every truth
necessary for salvation, to our remembrance :
And that Christ, his offices and merits, were
only to be believed in ; and were sufficient to
put us in mind of our duty, and to quicken holy
affections in us.
I said moreover, That it was a more refined
piece of idolatry, to cooceive otherwise of God
2P
5793 STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1670.— Trial qf Richard Lemghorn, [Sflflf
in our thoughts, than as he had revealed him-
self by the scriptures of truth, iti his infinite ex*
celleucics. And therefore to relieve us, in
preventing any gross mistakes m our absurd
imaginations of God, we were bound to fix our
thoughts and conceptions in prayer, upon God
in Christ, as incarnate ; who is the only ex-
press image' of the Deity ; and not any corpo-
real, dishonourable misrepresentations of God,
by the help of pictures or crucifixes.
I found also, that his Popish education had
strongly prevailed on him, to adhere to the false
and absurd dotages of the Romish church : for
when I told him, That it was not safe to die in
that religion ; he replied, " That he was re-
solved to hold and persevere in it, because he
had been bred up in it.*' I said, That could
not be a solid argument; for then he might be
as peremptory to die in a sinful state, because
the principles of a corrupt nature were riveted
in his heart, and were grown familiar to him by
custom.
He was sometimes pettish ; yet when rhe fit
was off, he hearkened to my advice, and joined
with me in prayer. I desired him not to mock
. God, either by any deliberate wandering in his
thoughts, while I should pray ; nor by saying
any Ave Marias or Popish petitions secretly to
himself. He promised me, he would not. He
was troubled for his sinful course of life : Yet I
told him, That was not repentance deep
enough. David's heart was the centre of his
remorse ; and that not only his heinous crimes
of murder and adultery were his burden, but
the sense of his vile corrupt nature, which was
the poisonous spring of all scandalous impieties.
And that, as we are in our thanksgivings for
divine mercies, to ascend to the free-grace of
God, in giving Christ to redeem' us, as the
spring- head of all spiritual benefits ; so, in a
penitent confession of sin, we must likewise as-
cend to the guilt and defilement of original sin,
whence all actual abominations flow. That
this is a great relief to us, when we cannot
make a distinct particular enumeration of our
sins : And that no hypocrite can be truly bum-
bled for the sin of his corrupt nature, nor for
Gospel-unbelief, which is the direct damning
sin, as being against the very remedy of our re-
covery from a state of sin and misery.
Every day, after suitable advices given to
him, I prayed with him. He had not been
grammared in that strange distinction, which
most of those Popish malefactors had learned.
That a Papist may lawfully desire a Protestant's
prayers at home ; yet that his joining in prayer,
is an owning of their reputed heresy ; whose
breath is infectious, when poured out in the
solemnity of praying mutually in each others'
presence. Hill had learned this evasion, though
Staley and Berry, as well as Green, had not.
I believe, the true reason why all the other
criminals denied me liberty to pray with them,
was, lest I should touch too distinctly upon the
right sore (which they palliated, yea denied) and
so dreaded that trouble and perplexity, uluch
might thereby be raised in their consciences.
I can give no further account of Green, bat
only this, That upon the day before his execu-
tion, he told me, That he had received much
information by my discourses, and benefit by
my prayers, in order to fit him for his death :
He thanked me for my visits, but discharged
me from farther attendance upon him ; so I
went not with him .to the place of execution,
to observe what end he made.
VII. Mr. Hill.
This Hill was one of the murderers of sir E.
Godfrey. He was born and bred a Papist.
He was not a shoemaker, as was reported ; but
the son of a shoemaker. He said, That he bad
been servant to a Recusant lady, and managed
some of her concernments ; and went over sea
sometime, to give her an account thereof.
That he had lately hired an house for himself
to dwell in ; but was not present at the afore-
said murder : Yea, that he knew nothing of it,
more or less, neither before nor after. This ha
often averred with so many self-imprecations,
that I was afraid to urge him for the present,
to any farther acknowledgment ; lest I might -
thereby give bim an occasion to aggravate nis
sin, and seal up his damnation with greater
obduration and impenitency. I unfolded to
him, (he wide difference betwixt the Protes-
tant and Popish religion' ; and that the latter
could not be a religion instituted by Christ, be-
cause it was founded in blood, and propagated
by artifices of cruelty, injustice, violence, equi-
vocations and perjuries : Yea, even by false
appeals to the omniscient Judge of innocency,
when crimes were juridically proved against
the appellants.
I said, That this was the deepest policy of
Papists, fetched from the conclave of hell : for
such daring and atheistical appellants, are not
only possessed with the spirit of lying, and
strongly deluded, while living, to believe a false,
absurd religion ; but also do as strangely, out
of an obstinate, unpenitent heart, palliate
bloody crimes with a flat denial of them, after
conviction thereof by due process of law.
Surely such a violation of the sentiments of
conscience., .must heeds proceed from an atbe-«
istical deniaj of God's omniscient inspection,
or. a prophage tdoubring of the future judgment.
As if false appellants had not souls capable of
damnation, or1 studied how to seal it up more
firmly to themjglves : but such studied evasion
of their crimes; render them blacker and more
horrid, while they would make credulous per-
sons suspect their accusers to be perjured •
which is a sin of that deep die and malignity,,
that it rarely admits of any repentance in the
sinner, or pardon from God. Yet so hardened
are some, that they will stand out in the denial
of their crimes, though proved against them, tb>
the last breath. They are not afraid to look
the Almighty Judge in the face, with a lie in
their mouth.
But then such (rootless stupid sinners pre*
sume, they shall have this relief as a shield, to>
keep off their damnation ; that their self-im -
6
5M]
STATE TR1AES, 31 Charles II. 1679— -/or High Ttewtu
[582
precation was for the promoting of a greater
good ; viz. That the Romish religions may not
lie under the reproach of a blood-thirsty dispo-
sition, in its professing party ; lest, being hin-
dered its propagations/if this were credited, it
should gradually become so abominable as to be
rooted out.
Papists think, that they may lawfully, safely,
yea commendably perjure themselves, to pro-
mote their false religion ; especially, if in a
transport of zeal, they imprecate themselves,
that they may sit higher in the good opinion
and implicit faith of their blinded proselytes.
Such was Hill ! Who was not more subtilly
moulded unto, than deeply confirmed in all
Popish principles. Hence it was, that he
would not admit of • any information whieii
might beget the least suspicion of their falsity :
Yet this was very commendable in him, that
when I exhorted him to take a strict review of
his sins ; that so, being deeply humble^ for
them, he might obtain some hopeful prospect
of their pardon : He replied, " That he bad
endeavoured to search out whatever might
provoke the Lord to desert him, and suffer him
to^ fall under the fatal sentence pronounced
upon him." He said, " He bad been guilty of
sins enough, for which he was thus severely
punished. Among the rest, he instanced in
this ; " That he had wronged one in a twelve-
penny matter ; but he was now so troubled
about it, that he had made restitution since his
condemnation ; although be was in extreme
want of necessaries for his present subsistence."
I commended this in him; but withal told
him, That there was one crime committed by
him, for which he could never make any satis-
faction ; viz. the murdering of sir Edmund :
vet, that upon his true repentance, Christ's
bloodshed was all-sufficient to wash away the
stain and reproach of this most prodigious
wickedness.
He still stood out in a peremptory denial,
" That he knew any thing of it, more or less.'1
And in the usual canting language, affirmed,
' That he was as innocent of it, as the child
unborn." Which words may admit of an equi-
vocation : For the chijd unborn is innocent, as
not being capable of committing or declaring
the heinousness of such a crime. But though
Hill was capacitated for it, with all imaginable
principles of Jesuitical subtilty ; yet his deepest
sophistry appeared, in pretending to he as in-
nocent as the child unborn ; viz. In this sense,
innocent, as not able to declare bis guiltiness
of the said murder : for so he might be unable,
in respect of an oath of secrecy, which was the
seal of his impenitency. Or, he might think to
evade the confession of it by this equivocation,
viz. I am as innocent of the fact as there is
truth in this, that the child unborn is here pre-
sent, reserving this supplement of the assertion
unto himself. And then it being unriddled in
plain English, it comes to thus much, " I am
as innocent of the fact laid to my charge;"
that is> there is as much truth in affirming
this, as there is in the child's befng present,
which is yet unborn : For there is not truth in
either.
I did fear, that some such equivocation might
shroud itself under Hill's flat denial of the said
murder : Therefore, I told him, that! his inge-
nuity in confessing a pecuniary wrong,' and
makiog restitution, could not demonstrate any
sound repentance, unless he took the shame of
this murder upon himself, by a free confession
of it. For a sincere penitentiary dares not '
conceal any sin, though of never so ignominious
a nature. He replied, " That he had taken
shame to himself, in confessing his doing wrong,
and that be had violated the integrity, and peace
of his conscience, for a very trifle : Therefore,
I could not. think, he denied the murder laid to
his charge, tliat he might maintain his reputa-
tion." But to confute this plea : I knew, a felon,
who denied the robbery for which he was con-
demned ; yet probably to insinuate into me a
good opinion of him, be confestthat he once rob-
bed a poor man going to market, but being after-
wards troubled in his conscience for so doing,
he enquired out where the person wronged
lived, and sent him double restitution ; " be-
cause happily/' (said he)" the poor man losings
of his market, might have gained as much as I
sent him, by selling the provisions which he was
carrying thither/ Thus some will pretend to
be ingenuous in confessing hidden crimes, and
yet will stand out in denying such which are
proved against ihem. This is but a counterfeit
remorse.
On the day before Hill's execution, he dis-
charged me of farther attendance, because he
said, he would be in greater retirement, to fit
himself for his death, now so nearly approach-
ing : whereupon I cook leave of him ; and he
prayed God to reward me for all my visits of him.
VIII. Mr. Berry,
Berry the porter of Somerset- house, was one
of the murderers of sir Edmundbury Godfrey,
and was executed some time after Hill and
Green. He willingly admitted me to visit him
for many days, sometimes twice in the same
day. 1 found him dejected at the first, yet
afterwards he was reduced to a more composed
frame. I observed that he had some books in
his chamber ; of all which I took an inspec-
tion, and found no popish author among them.
I told him, that I much approved of his care in
the choice of those books, especially of the
Bible, to be his associates and guides in his so-
litary confinement. Then I advised him, to
search his beart-state God-ward, and to con-
sider for what special sins Gbd had deserted
him, to fall into so shameful and notorious a
crime, as the murder of sir £. Godfrey ; who
had demonstrated himself to be' a worthy
patriot of his country. He replied, that he
knew nothing of it, neither before, nor after ;
and that be was no ways accessary to the guilt
of it. I said, I could not give credit to him in
that; for the crime was clearly proved against
him. I did not much urge him to confess it, at
that time, fearing 1 might provoke him to ba
583] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Cbablxs II. J*79 TVud e/ Richard Langhon, [AM
more shy of embracing any future visits or
advice. I beat my discount, to fit him for
bis approaching death ; and from Scripture de-
mons'ruled, that immediately after the soul's
expiration, every one is presented by angels
good or evil, (according as their state is, in
which they die) hefore the dreadful tribunal of
Christ, the most impartial righteous judge of all
men. And that of what nature the sentence
which then passed was of, it was irrepealable :
Therefore lie could not be too circumspect in
trying his heart- frame, which is naturally de-
ceitful ; for if his faith and repentance, (the
only qualifications and evidences of a future
bappy state) were not solidly built on Christ, as
the rock of salvation, after his being adjudged,
there could uot be any retrieval of the sentence,
though it were to the eternal banishment of his
soul from the bliss-making \ ision, and fruition
of the God of glory. This awakened him to
some remorse for the sins of his life. I then
proceeded to advise him, not to venture to die
id the Romish persuasion ; for this could not
produce solid nor lasting tranquillity in any con-
science, perplex t and de riled with the guilt of
the least sin. In as much as papists build
their hopes of future happiness on corrupt prin-
ciples, via. they mix the belief of the falsities
of the ApostaticaJ-Trent-cuuncil with the
articles of the Apostolical creed ; which can
never cement into any consistency of truth,
cither in matters of faith, or practice. I did
undertake to discover the notorious absurdity of
some popifth opinions ; in doing which, be was
not only very attentive, but said, he did not
believe many things which the. doctors of the
Romish church teach, as necessary to be em-
braced for articles of the true faith.
I told him, I hoped that he was not stubborn
in that heresy, boring declared himself better
informed. Yet he did not deny that be waa a
8apist. After much discourse, I drew out a
tue Treatise of one Mr. Bradshaw*s, which
states in short, but very solid theses, or propo-
sitions, the true nature of justification by faith
in Christ ; and oppugns, yea, overthrows the
popish doctrine of good works, as meritorious
of salvation : I lent it Mr. Berry, who having
read it, liked it, and said, He was much settled
and confirmed in the belief of that sound and
comfortable doctrine. He ofren admitted me
to pray for, and with lim ; he was not afraid to
fee infected with the breath of an heretic, as
Mr. Coleman and others of the fraternity in
conspiracy were. I doubt not but wholesome
counsel, and fervent prayer, wrought much on
Mr. Berry, to bring him to some remorse for his
sinfulness ; for he gave an eminent signal of
this in declaring that God had justly left him
to fall under the sentence of so shameful a
death, for his notorious dissimulation; which
was this, viz. That he had for his private in-
terest, and to supply some wants be was in,
changed bis proiestant profession, and turned
pepisr, again>t the dictates of his conscience, to
get into employment by favour of that party.
"*^ be affirmed more wounded his conscience,
than all the sins which be bad committed in the
whole course of his Hfe. Yet still he was very
shy and reserved, as unto any acknowledgmeat
of the notorious murder of sir Edniuudborr
Godfrey. But take nodoe, that a sincere^on-
science doth not content itself with the v»n-
fession only of some particular sin, but it most
free and ready to take the shame of every sin,
especially of such a crime as wilful murder,
clearly proved against him. And that none an
such proper objects of God's just condemna-
tion, as such, who to cover any one sin, tD»ugh
never so small, will study evasions, to deny,
conceal, or extenuate it.
Thus to cover sin, is to add sin to sin. The
obligation to punishment takes faster hold, the
guilt remains uncapable of being pardoned :
the sin not confest, rankles and festers in the
conscience, hannts the sinner as an affrighting
ghost, yea, the contagious poison spreads, vu
it grow so strong in the malignity of it, that it
damns eternally.
This alarm • or awakening consideration) I
pve to Berrv, that I might excite him to an
ingenuous confession of the murder of sir Ed-
mund bury Godfrey ; and beside, 1 told him,
that tliere was tnift danger in not confessing a
crime, that it hardens the heart inst ustbly, to
an impudent and unpenitent peremptory d< oia)
of it. And that this was the blackest mark of
a reprobate. Afterward I prayed with him,
that the Lord (who is the searcher of all hearts,
and the just avenger of all lying and false ap-'
peals) would iodine him to an hearty and free
acknowledgment of this very crime ; that he
would grant him true and deep repentance,
and strengthen bis faith in the merit of Christ's
blood, for expiation of so great guilt. Berry
had a reprieve for some time to nt himself for
death, and I hope he made good one and im-
provement of it. For when the mornrmg came,
wherein he was to be executed, I fonnd him in
a more penitent, melting frame than before.
I prayed with him at his execution. 1 most do
him this right, as to say, that he was in a very
serious composed temper ; for I have seldom
heard any malefactor fat the public place of
8uffcring)"express himself in such suitable and
heart-broken petitions for divine pardon, and
renewing grace, as Berry did ; he needed not
a prayer book in his haod ; his soul-agonies
taught him to pray ; nor did he let fall any
thing, which smelt in the least of popish leaven.
His prayer was fervent and very composed,
though death stared him in the face; yet was
he not under any consternation or dejection.
He said not any thing, either rn asserting big
innocence as to the murder of sir Edmund-
bury. Godfrey, neither as to t be religion he died
in. He fixt his eye upward, and looked not
upon the people, being very intentive on the
great work he was about. I gave him a km
time to prepare and fit himself to die : He
made some secret ejaculation* of his heart Hea-
ven-ward : then taking a solemn farewell, f de-
sired him to resign himself tip to the mercreg
of God in the alone and sJJ»auficieat merit* of
MS]
STATE TRIALS, 51 CtfAfttis II. 1079.— /* High JV*a*wi.
[586
Christ, and a© 1 went out of the cart ; and
after a little time of Consideration with himself,
the sentence of death was executed upon him.
A* AccoWTof the Five Jesuits, condemned
to be drawn, hanged, and quartered, on
Saturday the 14th of June, 1079y Tie.
Wbkebremi, Harcoart, Feowick, Gawen,
and Turner.
These fife Jesuits baring received the afore-
said sentence, for conspiring the death of the
king, and the subversion ef the Protestant Reli-
gion, 1 did on the Monday following (because
the duty of my office as ordinary obliged me,)
after to them my assistance to prepare them for
their execution ; but they did not admit me to
their chambers : Thereupon, I desisted from
any farther offer to visit them. Yet upon the
dav of their execution I waired for an oppor-
tunity to speak with them before they were
conducted so the sledges.
I. Mr* Habcoukt.
Mr. Harcourt was first brought down from
his chamber, to he carried up to the. Chapel,
where a door opens to convey them down the
stairs more conveniently to the sledges.
I thus spake to Mr. Harcourt, Sir, you did
•nt think fit to admit me to any discourse in
your chamber, but now that you are upon the
very bonders of death and must be judged to
an eternal state in happiness or misery,
consider well bow heinous the crime is for
which you are to suffer death.' Beg of Qod to give
you true repentance onto life eternal,' and do
not stand out in the denying or extenuation of
your crime.
Mr. Harcourt made me this slight answer,
* That I needed not to trouble myself con-
cerning him, for be knew his doty ;" and so
past away from me,
II. Mr, Whitkbheah.
Then came Mr. Whitebread from his cham-
ber ; I said something of advice to bira as a
dying man, and told him withal, that I had
earnestly prayed that God would give him re-
pentance, in order to pardoning grace and sal-
vation. This be resented with more calmness
and modesty of spirit than Harcourt did, and
pat off bis hat to me at parting.
IJI. Mr. Fenwice.
I had longer discourse with Fenwrck in a
stale room alone by himself. I did address
myself to him in more pathetic expressions,
than to the two other, because 1 had more op*
aortnnitv for it. In sura, 1\ wished him to
starch hts heart, because every man's by nature
sj as deceitful as it is corrupt. That he would
tray to God to undeceive him, as to any false
hopes of Heaven, and not build on any sandy
foundation, by trusting to any humiliation for
sin, or the merits of any saint or angel; and
Asa be would not stand out in denying of bis
That be would consider seriously
r
of that sacred scripture m the twenty eighth of
the Prev. of Solomon, the thirteenth terse,
He who hides his sin shall not prosper in the
attempting of it, but rather exposes himself to
a curse. But whosoever confesses and forsake*
his sin, shall obtain mercy. He said, that he
had contest betwixt God and himself, and that
was sufficient.
I told hhn, that in respect of the greater
scandal he had given, and reproach he had
brought upon religion, which obliges to all fide-
lity towards princes, and forbids the subversion
of a lawful government, be ought to express
great sorrow for, and detestation of such prin-
ciples which destroy human society.
But be angerly replied, " What ? do you
undertake to instruct me, or others of my order,
as if we were not men of reason and learning?1*
I told him, that I was beund to assist him as a
dving man, and to put him in mind of seeking
his soul's salvation, in aright way. And that,
whereas he slighted my advice, he ought not to
look upon any Protestant divine, to he like their
novices, whom they train up in ignorance, as
if it were the mother of devotion.
I said, that I stood amazed, that any man of
bfs learning should so far forfeit the repute there-
of and all the sentiments of a good conscience,
as to adhere to principles so destructive to all
order, equity, and government established by
light of nature, even among savages.
He was not pleased with my discourse, yet 1
did assure him, I would not desist prating for
him, while I could rationally think that he was
alive, and within the reach or benefit of my
prayers. And so we parted.
IV, V. Mr. Gawen and Mf. Tu&kbe.
I could not speak with Gawen or Turner till
they were placed in the sledge. I spake but
little to them, time, and the noise of the peo-
ple thronging me, would not permit me to say
much. Only I told Mr. Gnwen, that now death
stared him in the face and his judgment to an
eternal state was very near ; therefore I advi-
sed him not to palliate or extenuate his great
crime, mnch less to deny it ; for, he would
hazard his salvation, if he went out of the world
with a falsity in his mouth.
I told him I had and would continue to
pray for him and his fellow-criminal in the
sledge with him. Sa wishing them a peniten-
tial frame of heart, that they might obtain eter-
nal life in Christ, upon the drawing away of the
sledge, Mr. Gawen shewed a public signal of
civility to me, and thanked me. He seemed
much more cheerful than the rest. And I
hope he had better grounds for it.
. Mr. Laxohobn.
After sentence of death past upon the said
unhappy gentleman, as being involved in the Je-
suitical Conspiracy against the king and nation ;
I addressed myself in a visit to him, which he
accepted. When First came into bis chamber,
I told him, That t came not to upbraid a
dying man, though of a contrary religion : chat
667] STATE TRIAIJ3, 3 1 Chakies II. 1C79— THo/ */ /teW Langhorn, [568
I pitied him, as a condemned criminal : yet
was more troubled, that he should espouse the
Popish persuasions so far, as to suspend, or re-
nounce rather, the sentiments of right reason,
in embracing and adhering to so corrupt and
absurd opiuions. He answered me, " That he
thought himself in a surer way for to attain sal-
vation, than any of my opinion could set them-
selves in. For Protestants/' said he, " follow
the mistakes of their private judgments ; and
then cry them up, for the genuine interpre-
tation of the Holy Scriptures. But we/' said
he, " who are J&oman Catholics, have the
conduct of an infallible guide, to interpret
obscure ambiguities in the Scriptures : for no
Scripture is of any private interpretation ;
otherwibe, well-meaning persons may propose,
and put off their fancies, for solid conclusions,
drawn from the sacred Records of God's word."
He said, " That therefore, there was great
need of an external, supreme, infallible judge
on eai th ; whose decision upon appeals, can
only state and determine all controversies about
matters of faith and practice." I replied,
that the Divine Authority of God, as imprest
upon the veracity of the Scriptures, was never
, separated from the same spirit, who did dic-
tate them, as unto special guidance ; so far, as
not to desert sincere Christians, that should
they fall into any damnable heresy. But I
feared, that the Romish opinions were such,
though they be imposed to be believed and
obeyed, upon the score of the Pope's infalli-
bility, equally with the sacred Scriptures.
What blasphemy is this, for a sinful man to ar-
rogate the title of Infallible, due only to God,
the fountain and architype of all truth ! That
the Father of lights, gave mankind the best
and safest conduct of bis own holy, infallible
spirit, in matters aforesaid. And that the
Scriptures, being exemplified from his esseutial
purity and veracity, were not defective as
numan laws ; which require an external judge
and interpreter, distinct from themselves, in
their original constitution. So that, in all
things necessary to Salvation, the Scriptures
were a perfect rule and standard, to dictate
and determine matters of faith, and Christian
obedience. Yet so arrogant is the pope, as to
challenge an authority to himself, to give the
Scriptures a sanction ; yea, to over-rule them
by his corrupt traditions, which he declares
infallible. Thus he exautorats, and invalidates
their divine original, and superintendency ; as
if they received all the life of their interpre-
tation, from his authoritative dilucidation, as
the moon doth her light from the sun. Hence
it is, that when the^ pope enters into any coun-
cil, he hath the Bible placed under his feet,
while singly himself over-rules the council;
and exalts bis sole determination above the
sacred records of truth. Hence it is, that
under a pretence, that the Scriptures are ob-
scure, and a dead letter in themselves, that they
must be animated with his traditions, though
never so absurd and contradictory to their di-
vine authority, certainty, and perfection*
Also I said, That where the Scriptures were
obscure iii one place, tbey explained that am-
biguity in another : so that, there was no need
of any external judge. And that Protestant
Divines did not give out their private senti-
ments, and interpretations of the Scriptures,
for laws, to supersede the innate authority of
the Scriptures ; or to oblige Christians to an
implicit faith and obedience, as the Pope doth;
wh6 over-rules the verv Scriptures themselves :
so that, no part of them is canonical, but only
those books, which he declares to be such.
Thus a sinful mau judges that sacred law, by
which himself, and all men must be judged;
though he claim a power to pardon sin, and
dispose of the eternal rewards of virtue, or
vice ; accordingly as himself pleases to deter-
mine the nature and circumstances of both*
Hence I said, It proceeded, that the opinions
of the Romish Church were so corrupt, at
moulded and adapted to serve and promote
the carnal interest of his ambition, and the li-
centiousness of his followers.
Then he asked me, Whether I did dot think,
that] the Popish and Protestant religion might
not be reducible into a coalition or unity 7 I
answered, No ; because they were so contra-
riant, that they could never cement, so as to
yield a safe conduct to eternal life. Inasmuch,
as Christ himself averred, That in vain do all
such worship him, who teach for divine doc-
trines, the traditions of men : that whosoever
adds or diminishes from Scriptural- fundamen-
tals, despises, and seeks to nullify the wisdom
and authority of God himself. That Popish
principles undermine, and subvert the all-
sufficiency of Christ, in the execution of his
offices. That as Socinians cannot be accounted
Christians, who deny the divinity of Christ's
person: so Romanists, who invalidate bis
offices, are Anti-Christian, in their spirits, add
in their misbelief.
Therefore, there is no more hope, that two
religions so opposite, should ever cement in
one, according to the analogy of faith, pre-
scribed by Christ ; than that light and dark-
ness should agree, or have fellowship.
Nor can there be any colour of right rea-
son, for that distinction ; that Popish tradi-
tions are rather beside the rule and dictates of
the Scriptures, than directly contrary to them.
For,, whatever is not agreeable to the revealed,
perfect will of God, either directly, or by na-
tural consequence', or by right deduction, it is
a sin. Consider, There is as little hope and
comfort for that person, who falls into a river,
by slipping betwixt, or beside the bridge ; aa
for him, who directly casts himself into iu
Both may be drowned irrecoverably. The one,
eut of the inadvertency, or mistake of *
drunken giddiness : the other, out of the pre-
sumption of a sullen obstinacy. There are
more ways which lead to death, than the di-
rect stabbing of one's self. So, transgression,
on the right-nand, in a superstitious zeal, may
ruin a man's soul, as certainly, as down-right
atheism and prophaneness.
569] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or High Trtaton.
After these discourses, I asked Mr. Lang-
horne, That I might pray with bim ? He an-
swered me, No ; yet, I desire your prayers at
home. He said, That prayer irf presence, was
an Act of Communion ; hut it was unfit, to
join with one, who was not a member of the
Roman Church. I replied, That I thought,
there was little or no difference in such dis-
tinct praying ; however, it could not be any
unlawful act. He would not admit me to pray
with him : therefore, to root out such a scru-
ple, I shall state now, more at large, what I
then spake more succinctly. Is not prayer an
universal duty, and a»testification of Christian
charity ? Therefore, to limit it only to such,
who are adopted into any faction, is to look on
all others, as excommunicated from Christ, and
the hope of salvation by him, as the only
head ; who influences the Universal Church,
with the spirit of faith, unity; and concord.
Can any Papist think to receive benefit by
pray?r, himself being absent ; who hath not so
much charity, as to bear Protestants' pre-
sence, in praying together ? What proud sin-
gularity is this? What inconvemency can
happen, from a Protestant's joining with a
Papist in prayer, if they do not mix their pri-
vate opinions (which are fitter for a disputa-
tion) in the time of praying together ? Such
imprudence would turn prayer, which is the
badge of Christian Communion, into an occa-
sion of reproach ; *aod im bitter each others
spirits, to remain at a farther distance. To
prevent such a mischief, let them consent, that
they will keep close to Scripture-matter, and
phrases in prayer ; because in these, they are
agreed. So shall they not grieve each dtber,
by an uncharitable exagi taring and Tenting of
their private opinions. Yet I deny not, but
that they ought to desire of God, that he
would clear up to them his truth and ways
more fully ; and that, in whatever they dissent,
by way of mistake about opinions foreign to
the essential parts* and fundamentals of Chris*.
ban Religion, they may come to a right under-
standing of each other ; and may recede from
any false mixtures, super-added to Christ's
pure religion. Therefore, to deny any Protes-
tant Divine, to pray with Popish persons con-
demned, when tbey cannot have the relief
[590
thereof, from any of their own persuasion ; lest
they should confirm them in their corrupt
principles, or join wicked counsels, to diffuse
their treasonable designs, by messages, to put
Plots in execution, is a warrant to deny them
the assistance of their own party. Yet they
stick not, to grow sullen and insolent, in re-
jecting the prayers of Protestant Divines.
How careless of, and cruel to their own
souls, are such, who will not by all lawful
helps, secure and promote their souls ever*
lasting blessedness ! Is not this such a breach
of charity, as to make void their own prayers
for themselves ? and to limit Christian Reli-
gion, only to the Roman Church, which is but*
a corner of the Christian world ; and cannot
be properly Catholic, unless it embrace an
universal charity for all .Christians, who pro*
fess the same Christ, and the same fundamen-
tals of Christianity ? But Protestants have not
so departed from the Church of Rome, as to
hate all persons of her society ; but only, their
corruptions in doctrine and practice. We
deny not to them, the duties of common cha-
rity ; or such requisite assistances at the time
of extreme sickness, or death, which may safely
consist with their not being confirmed in Popish
principles, too deeply rooted in them already ;
and the consistency of the established govern-
ment, in the English Church, and state. After
these conferences with Mr. Langborn, I asked
him, whether he were the very person ac-
cused before the committee of parliament, ia
1666 ; for being conscious, at least, of the con-
flagration of London, by treachery: because
Mr. Richard Langhorn, counsellor at the
Temple, is said in a deposition upon oath, to
have cast out threatening words about the said
conspiracy? — He answered me, That he was
the person then accused ; but knew no more
of the firing of London, than he did of this
Plot. But what he knew of this, is sufficiently
demonstrated, by his being condemned, and
executed for a well-wisher to it, and agent in
it. I offered a second visit to him, on the
Thursday before his execution ; but he sent
me thanks, and desired to be wholly retired to
himself. So being in the country when he was
executed, I cannot give any further account
concerning him.
* i
wtofgf
1253. The Trial of Sir George Wakeman,* bart William Mar*
shal, William RuMLErand, James CoRKER,f Benedictine
Monks, at the Old Bailey, for High-Treason ; 31 Charles II.
a. d. 1679.
UPON Friday tbe 18th of July, 1679, at the
Sessions House in the Old Bailey, London, the
Court being met, and proclamation made for
attendance, the trials proceeded tuns t
Clerk of ihe Crown. Set sir George Wake*
man, William Marshal and William Romley to
the bar. Sir George Wakeraan, hold up thy
band. Which be did. And so of the other two.
■Wr******"^"^"""^"*
* " Wakeman's trial came on next. Oates
swore he saw him write a bill to Ash by the Je-
suit, by which he knew bis hand : and he saw
another letter of bis writ in the same hand, in
which he directed Ashby, who waa then going
to tbe Bath, to use a milk diet ancy o be pump-
ad at the Bath ; and that in that letter he men-
tioned bis zeal in tbe design of killing the king.
He next repeated all the story he had sworn
against tbe queen : Which he brought only to
make it probable that Wakeraan, who washer
physician, was io it. To all ths Wakemao ob-
jected, that at first Oates accused him only
upon hear-say : and did solemnly protest he
knew nothing against him : which was fuUy
made out So he said, all that Oates now
swore against him must be a forgery not
thought of at that time. He also proved by his
own servant, and by the apothecary at the
Bath, that Ashby s paper was not writ, but only
dictated by him : for he happened to be very
weary when be came for it, and his man wrote
it out : and that of the. milk diet was a plain
indication of an ill laid forgery, since it was
known that nothing was held more inconsistent
with tbe Bath water than milk. Bedlow swore
against him, that he saw him receive a bill of
8,000/. from Harcourt in part of a greater
•urn ; and that Wakeraan told him afterwards
that he bad received the money; and that
Harcourt told him for what end it was given,
for they intended the king slioukt be killed,
either by those they sent to Windsor, or by
Wakeman's means : and if all other ways fail-
ed, they would take him off at Newmarket.
Bedlow in the first giving his evidence deposed,
that this was said by Harcourt when Wakeman
was gone out of the room. But observing, by
the questions that were pot him, that this would
not affect Wakeman, he swore afterwards, that
he- said it likewise in his bearing. Wakeman
bad nothing to set against all this, but that it
teemed impossible that be could trust himself
in such matters to such a person : and if Oates
was set aside, he was but one witness. Three
other Benedictine priests were tried with
Wakeman. Oates swore, that they were in tbe
plot of killing the king ; that one of them, be-
ing their superior, had engaged to give 6,000/.
towards the carrying it on. Bedlow swore
" Yon stand indicted by the names of air
George Wakeman, late or the parish of St.
Giles in -the Fields, in the county of Middlesex,
hart. William Marshal, of the same parish and
county, gent, and William Romley, of the same)
pariah and county, gent. : For that yon as false
traitors against the most illustrious, serene and
most excellent prince, Charles the Second, by
somewhat circumstantial to the same purpose
against two of them i but that did not rise up
to be treason : and he had nothing to charge
the third with. They proved^ that another
person bad been their superior for several
years ; and that Oates was never once suffered
to come within their house, which all their ser-
vants depofted. And tbey also proved, that
when Oates came into their house the night
after be made his discovery, and took Picker*
iog out of bis bed, and saw them, he said he
had nothing to lay to their charge. They urged
many other things to destroy the credit of the)
witnesses : and one of them made a long de-
clamation in a high bombast strain, to shew
what credit was due to the speeches of dying
men. The eloquence was so forced and
childish, that this did tbem more hurt than
good. Scroggr summed up the evidence very
favourably for the prisoners, far contrary to hie
former practice. The troth is, that this was)
looked on as Ihe queen's trial, as well at Wake-
man's. The prisoners were acquitted: and
now the witnesses saw they were blasted. And
tbey were enraged upon it ; which tbey vented
with much spite upon Seroggs. And there
was in him matter enoogh to work on for such
foul-mouthed people as they were.* The queen
sot a man of great quality to be sent over am-
bassador from Portugal, not knowing bow much
she might stand in need of such a protection.
He went next day with great state to thank
Seroggs for bis behaviour in this trial. If he
meant well in this compliment, it was very un-
advisedly done j For the Chief Justice was ex-
posed to much censure by it. And therefore
some thought it was a shew of civility done on
design to ruin him. For bow well pleased so-
ever the Papists were with the success of this
trial and with Scroggs's management, vet tbey
could not be supposed to be so satisfied with
him, as to forgive his behaviour in the former
trials, which bad been very indecently partial
and violent." Burnet.
t In tbe following year, Marshal and Corker
were, together with others, tried and convicted
upon the stat. 87 Eliz. c. 2. See the trials of
Audersoo alias Munson and others, January
17, 1680: infra. See the stat. in Brommick1*
Case, Aug. 13, 1079, infra.
6
S9gJ STAJE TRIALS, 51 Charles II. 1679<— and others, for High Treason. [594
the grace of God, of England, Scotland, France
and Ireland, king, defender of the faith, &c.
your supreme and natural lord ; the fear of
God in your hearts not having, nor weighing
the duty of your allegiance, hat being moved
and seduced by the instigation of the devil;
and the cordial love, true, due and natural
obedience, which true and nuthful subjects of
our said sovereign lord the king do and of right
ought to bear towards him, our said sovereign
lord the king, utterly withdrawing, and endea-
vouring and intending with all your strength,
the. peace and common tranquillity of this king-
dom of England to disturb, and the true wor-
ship of God within this kingdom of England
used, and by the laws of the same established,
to overthrow, and the government of this realm
to subvert, and sedition and rebellion within
this kingdom of England, to move, stir up and
procure, and the cordial love, true, due and
natural obedience, which true and faithful sub-
jects of our said sovereign lord the king, ought
and of right are bound to bear towards him,
our said sovereign lord the king, wholly to
withdraw, put out and extinguish, and him our
said sovereign lord the king, to death and final
destruction to bring and put, you the said sir
George Wakeman, William Marshal and Wil-
liam Rumley, the 30th day of August, in the
30th year of the reign of our said sovereign lord
king Charles the Second, at the parish of St.
Giles in the Fields aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, falsly, maliciously, subtilly, advisedly
and traitorously did purpose, compass, imagine
and intend, sedition and rebellion within this
kingdom of England to move, stir up and pro-
core, and miserable slaughter among the sub-
jects of our said sovereign lord the king to cause
and procure, and our said sovereign lord the
king, from his royal state, title, power and go-
vernment of his saioT kingdom of England,
wholly to deprive, depose, cast down and dis-
inherit, and him our said sovereign lord the
king, to death and final destruction to bring
and pot, and the government of this kingdom
of England, and the sincere religion of God,
within the same rightly and by the laws of the
same established, at your will and pleasure to
change and alter ; and the state of this whole
kingdom of England, through all its parts well
instituted and ordained, wholly to subvert and
destroy ; and war against our said sovereign
lord the king, within this kingdom of England,
to levy; and to accomplish and fulfil those
your most wicked treasons and traitorous ima-
ginations and purposes, you the said sir George
Wakeman, William Marshal and William
Rumley, and other false traitors unknown, the
aforesaid 3Qtb day of August, with force and
arms at the parish, aloresaid, in the -county
aforesaid, malkuQasly, subtilly, advisedly and
traitorously did assemble, unite and gather
yourselves together ; and then and there, falsly,.
maliciously, subtilly, advisedly, devilishly and
traitorously did consult, consent and agree, our
said sovereign lord the king, to death and final
destruction to bring and put ; and the religion
VOL. VII.
4 within this kingdom of England rightly and by
the laws of the same established, to change
and alter to the superstition of the Church of
Rome; and to move, procure and persuade
them, the said William Marshal, William Rum-
ley and other raise traitors unknown, the agree-
ment aforesaid to fulfil and accomplish, you
the said sir George Wakeman, after, to wit,
the said 80th day of August, in the parish
aforesaid, in the county aforesaid, to them the
said William Marshal, William Rumley and
other false traitors unknown, did traitorously
promise to give your assistance, the government
of this kingdom to subvert, and the true wor-
ship of God, in this realm rightly and by the
laws thereof established and used, to the su-
perstition of the Cburcb of Rome to alter:
And that you the said sir George Wakeman,
then and there, falsly, maliciously, subtilly, ad-
visedly, devilishly and traitorously, did under-
take to kill and murder our said sovereign lord
the king ; And in further prosecution of the
treasons, traitorous conspiracies, intentions
and agreements aforesaid, you the said sir
George Wakeman, the said 30th day of ^ugusr,
at the parish aforesaid, in the county aforesaid,
falsly, traitorously and against the duty of your
allegiance, did receive and had (from a certain
person unknown, pretending to be provincial
of the Jesuits in England, and claiming autho-
rity for the granting commissions in that part
from the see of Rome,) one commission, to in-
stitute and authorise you the said sir George
Wakeman to be physician-general of the army,
to be raised for the waging war against our said
sovereign lord the king within, this kingdom of
England, and the same commission then and
there, falsly, advisedly, maliciously and traitor-
ously did inspect and read over, and traitorously
did keep in your possession, and to the same
falsly, knowingly, advisedly and traitorously did
consent and agree, With that intention, tbat you
the said sir George Wakeman should have, re-
ceive and exercise the place and office of phy-
sician-general of the army aforesaid, when you
the said sir George Wrfkeman, William Mar-
shal, William Rumley and the said other false
traitors unknown, should have performed and
accomplished your treasons, compassings, ima-
ginations, purposes and traitorous agreements
aforesaid. And that you the said William
Marshal and William Rumley, in further pro-
secution of 'your treasons, traitorous conspire*
cies, intentions and agreements aforesaid, the
said 30th day of August, in the parish afore-
said, in the county aforesaid, did falsly, subtilly
and traitorously consult, conclude, consent and
agree, that you the said William Marshal,
William Rumley and other false traitors un-
known, should pay the sum of 6,000/. towards
farthering and consummating th« traitorous
agreements aforesaid, amongst the said false
traitors had, our said sovereign lord the king to
kill and murder, the true worship of God with*
in this realm rightly and by the laws of the
same established, to the superstition of the
Church of Rome to alter, and the government*
2Q
m) STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles 1L 1679.— Trial (f Sir George rVakeman, [B96
of this kingdom of England to subvert, against
the duty of your allegiance, against the peace
of our said sovereign lord the king, his crown
and dignity, and against the form of the statute
hi thh case made and provided.*'
. Cl.ofthe Cr. How sayest thou, sir George
Wiiktiuao, art thou guilty of this High-Treason
whereof thop slandest Indicted or Not Guilty?
Sir G. Wakeman. Not Guilty.
CI. oj'llic Cr. Culprit, how wilt thou be tried ?
Sir G. Wukcman. By God and my country.
CI. of the Cr. God send thee a good deliver-
ance. [And so the other two.]
CI. of the Cr. Set James Corker to the bar,
(who was arraigned, and pleaded last sessions,)
James Corker, hold up thy hand. You the pri-
soners at the bar, sir George Wakeman, Wil-
liam Ruraley, William Marshal, and James
Corker, those men that you shall hear called
and personally appear, are to pass between our
sovereign lord the king and yoa, upon trial of
your several lives and deaths; if therefore you
br any of you will challenge them, or any of
them, your time is to speak unto them as they
come to the book to be sworn, and before they
be sworn. Call Ralph Haw trey, esq. who ap-
peared, and there being no challenges the twelve
that were sworn are as follows : Ralph Hawtrey
ofRislipp, Henry Uawley of New-Brentford,
Henry Hodges of Hanwell, Richard Down ton
of Isle worth, John Bathurst of Edmonton, Ro-
bert Hampton of Green ford, William Heyden
of Greenford, John Baldwin of Hillingdon,
Richard -Dobbins of Harvile, William. Avery of
Enfield, Esquires. William Wayte of St. Cle-
ment Danes, gent. Richard White of Cripple-
gate, gent.
CI. of the Cr. Crier, count these. Ralph
Hawtrey.
Crier. One, &c.
: CI. of the Cr. Richard White.
Crier. Twelve good men and true, stand to-
gether add hear your evidence.
Then the usual Proclamation for information
was made, and the Prisoners being bid to hold
up their hands, the Clerk of the Crown charged
the Jury with them thus.
CI. of the Cr. You of the Jury look upon the.
prisoners, and hearken to their cause. They
stand indicted by the names of (prout in the In-
dictment mutatis mutandis) and against the
form of the statute in that case, made and pro-
vided : and he the said James Corker, stands
indicted by the name of James Corker of the
parish of St. Giles in the fields, in the county of
Middlesex, clerk ;
" For that he with Thomas White, John Fen-
wick, William Harcourt, John Gavan, and An-
thony Turner, as a false traitor against the most
illustrious, most serene, and most excellent
prince, Charles the $nd, by the grace of God, 6f
England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, king,
defender of the faith, Sec. his supreme and na-
tural'lord, not having the fear of God hi his.
•jsart, nor weighing the duty of bis allegiance,
but being moved and seduced by the instigation
of the devil, the cordial love, true, due and na-
tural obedience, which true and faithful subjects
of our said sovereign lord the king, towards
him should, and of right ought to bear, wholly
withdrawing ; and advising, and with all his
strength, intending the peace and common
trauquillity of this realm to . disturb, ana* the
true worship of God within ibis kingdom of
England used, and by the law established, * to
overthrow, and the government of this realm to
subvert, and sedition, and rebellion within this
kingdom of England to move, stir up and pro-
cure, and the cordial love, and true and due
obedience which true and faithful subjects of
our said sovereign lord the king, towards him.
should, and of right ought to bear utterly to
withdraw, put out, and extinguish, and our said
sovereign lord the king to death and final des-
truction to bring, and put, on the 24th day of
April, in the 30th year of the reign of our said
sovereign lord king Charles the 2nd at the parish
of St. Giles in the fields, in the county or Mid-
dlesex aforesaid; he the said James Corker,
together with the said Thomas White, John
Fenwick, William Harcourt, John Gavan, and
Anthony Turner, with divers other false traitors
subjects of our said sovereign lord the king to
the jurors unknown, falsly, subtilly, advisedly,
maliciously, and traiterously, did purpose, com-
pass, imagine, and intend sedition and rebellion
within this kingdom of England, to move, stir up
and procure, and a miserable slaughter among
the subjects of our said sovereign lord the king
to procure and cause, and our said sovereign
lord the king, of his kingly state, title,
{>ower, and government of his kingdom of Eng-
and, utterly to deprive, depose, cast down, and
disinherit, and htm our said sovereign lord
the king to death and final destruction to
bring and pur, and the government of this king-
dom of England, and the sincere religion of
God within the same, rightly, and by the law*
of the same established, at his will and plea-
sure, to change and alter, and the state of
this whole kingdom of England, through all its
parts well instituted and ordained, wholly to
subvert and destroy; and war, within this
kingdom of England, against our said sovereign,
lord the king, to levy : and to accomplish and
fulfil their said most wicked treasons, and trai-
torous imaginations and purposes, he the said
James Corker, together with the said Thomas
White, John Fenwick, William Harcourt, John
Gavan, and Anthony Turner, and other false
traitors against our said sovereign lord the king,
to the jurors unknown, the* said 94th day of
April, with force and arms, &c. in the parish
aforesaid, and county aforesaid, falsely, mali-
ciously, subtlely, advisedly, devilishly, sod
traitorously did assemble, unite, and gather
together, and then and there, falsely, malici-
ously, subtlely, advisedly, devilishly, and trai-
torously did consult, consent, and agree, our
said sovereign lord the king to death and final
destruction to bring and put, and the religion*
of this kingdom of England, rightly, sac by
»7] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cjueles II. 1679.— a*d others, for High Treason. [59*
the laws of the same established, to the super-
stition of the Roman Church to ehange and
alter, and the government of this kingdom of
JEngland to subvert; and that one Thomas
Pickering, and one John Grove, should kilJ
and murder our said sovereign lord the king ;
and that be the said James Corker, together
with the said Thomas While, John Fenwick,
William Harcourt, John Gavan, and Anthony.
Turner, and other false traitors, against our said
sovereign lord the king, to the jurors unknown,
should therefore say, celebrate, and perform, a
certain, number of masses, then and there
amongst themselves agreed on, for the soul of
the said Thomas Pickering, and for that cause
should pay to the said John Grove a certain
sum of money, then and there amongst them-
selves agreed on ; and that he the said James
Corker, together with the said Thomas White,
John Fenwick, William Harcourt, John Gavan,
and Anthony Turner, and other false traitors
to the jurors unknown, in further prosecution
of the treasons and traitorous consultations and
agreements aforesaid, afterwards, the said 34th
day of April, at the parish aforesaid, in the
county aforesaid, falsely, subtlely, advisedly,
maliciously, devilishly, and traitorously, did
severally each to the other engage themselves,
and upon the sacrament traitorously did swear
.and promise, to conceal, and not to divulge
the said most wicked treasons, and traitorous
compassing*, consultations, and purposes afore-
said amongst themselves had, traitorously to
kill and murder our said sovereign lord the
king, and to introduce the Romish religion
within this kingdom of England, and the true
Reformed' religion within this realm, rightly,
and by the laws of the same established, to alter
and change. And that he the said James
Corker, together with the said Thomas White,
John Fenwick, Wiiliam Harcourt, John Gavan,
and Anthony Turner, and other false traitors to
the jurors unknown, in further prosecution of
their said treasons and. traitorous intentions and
agreement aforesaid, afterwards, the said 24th
day of April, at the parish aforesaid, in the
county aforesaid, falsely, subtlely, advisedly,
maliciously, devilishly, and traitorously, did
prepare, persuade, excite, abet, comfort and
counsel four other persons to the jurors un-
known, subjects of our said sovereign lord the
king, traitorously our said sovereign lord the
king to kill and murder, against the duty of
his allegiance, against the peace of our sove-
reign the king, his crown and dignity, and
against the form of the statute in that case
jnade and provided/'
Upon these several Indictments they have
been arraigned, and thereunto have severally
pleaded Not Guilty, and for their trial put them-
selves on God and their country, which coun-
try yon are. Your charge is to enquire, whe-
they they be GuHty of the high-treason whereof
they stand indicted, in manner and form as
they stand indicted, or Not Guilty, &c. ,
Mr. Edward Ward. May it please your
lordship, and you gentlemen of the jury ; sir
George Wakcman, hart. William Marshal, and
William Rumley, the prisoners at the bar,
stand indicted ; for that they as false traitors
against our sovereign lord king Charles the
2nd, their supreme and natural lord, not hav-
ing the fear of God before their eyes, did trai-
'torously endeavour and intend, with all their
strength, the peace and tranquillity of this
kingdom of England to disturb, and the wor-
ship of God in the same rightly, and by the
laws of the same established, and the govern-
ment of the kingdom in all its parts well insti-
tuted and ordered, to subvert and overthrow,
and sedition and rebellion within the same to
move and procure, and to bring and put the
king to death aud final destruction ; and to
that purpose the 30th of August, in the 30th
year of the king that now is, they did falsely,
maliciously, subtlely, advisedly, and traitor-
ously compass, imagine, intend, and devise,
those things that I have enumerated to you ;
that is, sedition and rebellion in the kingdom
to move, the peace and tranquillity of the same
to disturb, the worship of God to overthrow,
and the king from nis royal state, title, power
and government wholly to depose, and to put
the king to death and final destruction, and the
religion at their wills and .pleasures to alter, and
to introduce- the Romish superstition, and war
within the kingdom to levy against our sove-
reign lord the king. And to accomplish these
tteasons and purposes, they the prisoners at
the bar, with other fal&e traitors unknown, the
day . and year beforementioned, did assemble
and meet together, and did then and there
consent and agree to put the king to death
and final destruction. And to persuade
Marshal and Rumley to these treasons, the
said sir George Wakeman promised his as-
sistance; first, to subvert the government,
and then to alter the religion to the Romish
superstition, and traitorously undertook to kill
the king: And he did receive for that purpose,
from the pretended provincial of the Jesuits in
England, who claimed ah authority from the
see of Rome, of granting out commissions, a
commission which constituted him Physician-
general of the army; which army was to be
raised for the levying of war against the king,
and the subversion of the government and reli-
gion : That he read this commission, that he
kept it in his possession, that he consented to
it, accepted it, and intended to execute^ the
employment, when their designs were accom-
plished., The Indictment further sets forth,
that Marshal and Rumley, aud other false
traitors agreed to pay the sum of 6t0Q0l. for
the carrying on and effecting of this treason ;
and this is laid, to be against the duty of their
allegiance, against the king's peace, crown and
dignity, and against the form of the statute.
To this indictment they have pleaded not
guilty ; if we make out these crimes against
them, or any of t^em, you are to find them
guilty.
There is also another indicted, that is Jamct
MO] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679— Trial tf Sir George Wakemim, [GOO
Corker ; For that be is a false traitor against
the king, and withdrawing his allegiance, and
due and natural obedience, which he owed to
him, as his sovereign, together with other per-
sons there mentioned, White, Fen wick, Har-
cotirt, Gavan, and Turner, did intend to over-
throw die religion, to subvert the government,
and to do all those treasons that I have here
enumerated, and that they did the 24th of
April, in the 30th year of this king, at the pa-
rish of St. Giles in the Fields, iu your county,
compass and imagine the king's death, levying
of war, and those other things; and in order
thereunto, they did contrive that Pickering
and Grove should kill the king, and that Corker
and the others should say masses for the soul
of Pickering, and should pay Grove a sum of
money. That to this the'y plighted their faith,
and received the sacrament upon it: and that
Corker and the others, the day and year
aforesaid, traitorously persuaded, excited and
abetted four other persons to murder the king.
To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty ; if we
prove him Guilty of any of these things, we
hope you will find it so. ,
Sir Robert Sawyer. My Lord, and you Gen-
tlemen of the Jury; The prisoners at the bar
with whom you are charged, stand indicted as
principal actors and instruments of that late
most catholic and bloody plot some time since
discovered ; and 1 hope, by the blessing of Al-
mighty God io a great measure prevented. The
design, gentlemen, was against the King and
the Church ; both Church and State were too
little a sacrifice to be offered up to the uni-
versal supremacy of Rome. They well knew,
gentlemen, that so long as God should preserve
the life of our prince, and as long as those legal
pales, wherewith the Church of England is en-
compassed, did but continue firm, neither the
gates of hell nor Rome could prevail against it.
And I wish that all Protestants were of the
same mind.
I shall not enter now into any large discoorse
of it, nor trace the several steps of this Plot,
which is so well known to all men of this na-
tion at this day, but only touch upon those
parts of it that do concern the prisoners now
at the bar, unlets they shall give me occasion
to recur to any former passages. Gentlemen,
we shall make proof to you, that the 24th of
April, 1678, there was a very great consult of
• numerous company of Jesuits here in Lon-
don ; and there was the foundation laid, or at
least the execution was then determined of
bringing this plot to its accomplishment. To
this consult we shall make it appear, that the
gentlemen at the bar were privy and consenting
to it. The king must die, that is resolved on,
mod you have heard formerly of the several
ways that it was to be acted ; some persons
were designed to shoot him, these have re-
ceived their trial and condign punishment;
then there was another set, and they were to
stab him, and some of these have been brought
to justice too; bat then there was a third sort,
(fur they did invent all the imaginable ways of
death) and that was poisoning; and that will
come principally before you at this tine. And
they had chosen out a very proper instrument
fur it, a gentleman whose experience rendered
him al>le, and whose near relation to and de-
pendence upon the royal family, gave hkn a
freat opportunity to commit that horrid crime,
tut, gentlemen, though bis persuasion might
go a great way, yet he would not do it gratis,
and thereupon be must be hired for a great
sum of money, not under 15,000/. and then be
undertook that great employment.
We shall prove to you, that this was his bar*
gain, that part of his wages he had received,
for he would be sure of something in hand be-
fore the work were done. We shall make it
appear, gentlemen, that he was privy also to
the consult (for I apply myself at present pe-
culiarly to him) and approved of it. And as a
farther reward, besides that of money, he was
to be preferred to be physician-general of the
army that was then to be raised, that employ-
ment was designed for him ; nay, be accepted
of the* commission, as we shall endeavour to
prove to you.
We shall also prove, that tbe other gentle-
men at the bar, the other malefactors that
stand there, were privy to tbe great consult of
the death of the king. That there was 6,000/.
which was to be furnished by the Benedictine,
monks; for though tbe Jesuits were the great
engineers, yet all the other orders were to con-
tribute, and 6,000/. was to be furnished by
them. And in the course of our evidence we
shall give vou several instances which will con-
cern all these particular prisoners now at the
bar ; and one truly that there was such a de-
sign of poisoning, which is very remarkable,
and that was from a very great engineer that
hath suffered already, and that was Mr. Ireland ;
and wherein I must desire that you would ob-
serve another thing that falls out very mate-
rially, that though Mr. Ireland, at the time of
his death, and all along, disowned that he was
here in London in August, and with great as-
severations did affirm it, it will appear by tbe
course of our evidence that be was nere in Lon-
don then, and had frequently discourses that
it was an easy matter to take off the king by
poison : and for that purpose do I mention it
to you as an instance that poison was one of
the great ways that they intended to murder
the king by. And, gentlemen, you will collect
from that evidence, what credit is fit to be gives,
to the words of such dying men, and whether
living witnesses that are upon their oaths, are
not rather to be believed, than those whose
concern it is for more reasons than one to per-
suade the people that they are innocent. And
you will likewise collect that those who have
lived in the sin of committing such horrid crimes
as these are, will not stick to protect thattaine
church (which tbey would propagate by those
crimes) by denying the plainest truth. We
will not trouble you any further with the open-
ing of the evidence, because the witnesses are
Wl] STATE TRIALS, 34 Chaklbs II. 1679.— md others, for Higk Treason. ftH»
many, and their testimony various; hat we
shall call our witnesses, aod let them tell it you
themselves.
Mr. Ward. Call Dr. Oates, Mr. Bed low,
Mr. Dugdale, Mr. Jennison, and Mr. Praunce,
(who were all sworn, and Mr. Dugdale set
up.)
«
Sir Robert Sawyer* Gentlemen, we call
first Mr. Dugdale to give you a general ac-
count of the plot, not so much for the proof of
the things here charged particularly on the
prisoners, as the general design.
Mr. Ward. Pray, Sir, speak your know-
ledge of what you know concerning the plot
in general.
Dugdale, I have for these seven years
known something of it, hat nothing particular-
ly till within these two years. About two years
since h was common icated to me by Mr.
Ewers, Mr. Gavan, Mr. Peters, Mr. Lewson,
and some other priests, which I cannot now
remember their names, and they did persuade
me to be of the management of the business,
for the carrying on of the design, for the intro-
ducing their religion, and for the killing of the
king and the duke of Monmouth; both those
two things were communicated to me, upon
my oath, by Mr. Gavan, Mr. Ewers, jtfr.
Peters, Mr. Lswson, and my lord Stafford.
Mr. Justice Atkins. What, Mr. Gavan that
was executed, do you mean?
• Dugdale. Yes, he was the man, I have bad
several packets of letters which concerned
the plot : all the letters that came from Mr.
Harcourt, or from any others concerning the
plot, were directed to me : I have had some-
times eight, sometimes nine, sometimes more
letters at a time, but I never saw any, almost,
bnt they all tended to the carrying on of this
design.
X. C. J. (Sir W. Scroggs) Did they shew
yon these letters, or did you open them ?
Dugdale. I did open several of them, a
great many, and some of them that I could not
handsomely seal up again, I kept.
L. C. J. They did Hot know . yon opened
them?
Dugdale. No, they did not all the time.
X. C. J. To what purpose did they write ?
Dugdale. My lord, they were to give in-
structions to Mr. Ewers how he should ma-
nage the affairs for carrying on the design, how
be must go about for the raising of money, and
for the engaging the gentlemen in the country,
•* particularly Mr. Gerard of Hilderson, and
Mr. Howard of Horecross, and sir James
Simons, and one gentleman that is dead, one
captain Atherley, anch several other gentle-
men were engaged in it, to be officers when
they bad accomplished their business of killing
the king.
Sir K. Sawyer, Yon say they were to be
officers ; what, were they to be military offi-
cers, or what?
Dugdale. Yes, they were to be military
officers.
Sir it. Sawyer, Was there an army to be
raised?
Dugdale, Yes, there was an army spoken
of to be raised.
Sir R. Sawyer, By whom ?
Dugdale. There was money ready in July
last, for I saw acquittances that came from St.
Omen that the money was paid. But then
there was caution given to be sore not to make
any rumour of arms or any thing, till the king
was dispatched.
L, C, J. Did they write that in a letter?
Dugdale. They writ that in a letter di-
rected to me.
L.C.J. To you i
Dugdale. Yes, to me.
L. C. J. Who writ that letter?
Dugdale, My lord, truly I cannot be cer-
tain at present -who it was; but upon recollec-
tion I can, may be, remember who it was : bat
it contained that there should be caution given
to all, to be sure that none sliould mention
arms, or any thing, till the king was dis-
patched.
Sir R, Sawyer. From whence did that letter
come ?
Dugdale.. From Mr. Harcourt, I am cer-
tain, and in Mr. Grove's packet; but I am
not certain of the person (hat writ the letter,
but I can recollect hereafter, perhaps, who it
was.
X. C. J. Did it comb from beyond sea, or
London ?
Dugdale. It came from London, but I sup-
pose it came thither from beyond sea.
X. C. J. The letter came to you, you say ;
was it dated from any place, and what ?
Dugdale. I am not certain whether it was ;
there was several letters that came from all
parts, some from St. Omers, some from Paris,
some from Rome. ,
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray what do you know of
any correspondence that was between your
principal . agents in Staffordshire, and those
conspirators here at London ?
Dugdale. Yes, there was a correspondence
between them.
L. C. J. Between whom? Name them.
Dugdale. Betwixt Mr. Ewers, Mr. Gavan,
and Mr. Vavasor, these were in Staffordshire ;
and betwixt Mr. Ireland, Mr. Harcourt, Mr.
Fenwick and Mr. Grove, these I know.
X. C. J. Where were these last?
Dugdale. In London these persons were,
they did write constantly three times a week
letters into Staffordshire about this business.
X. C. J. Bnt pray was there any thing
mentioned in any of these letters concerning
killing the king?
Dugdale. Yes, there was.
X. C. J. Was there any thing plain of that
in those letters ?
Dugdale. There was in one from Mr. White*
bread.
X. C. J. What did that letter say?
Dugdale. There was one from him that did
give a caution to Mr. Ewers, that he should be
008] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1670.— Trial of Sir George tVakeman, [604
mire to choose no persons but such as were
stout and hardy, or to that effect.,
X. C. J. To do what?
Dugdale. To kill the king.
X. C. J. Was that expressed in the letter ?
Dugdale, Yes, my lord, it was.
X. C. J. And did they write that they
should choose hardy persons to kill the king?
Was that the subject of it ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord, it was.
X. C. J. Did it come by the common post ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord; it did; but they
bad devised it so, that there was care taken
they should not be discovered, they would set
but two letters of their names to them, and
they were directed all to me, so that I was to
bear all the danger.
Sir R. Sawyer, How was the direction?
Was it directed plainly to you on the out-side?
Dugdale, Yes, it was ; and if it were dis-
covered, I was sworn by Mr. Ewers to deny it,
and then they could not be discovered.
Just. Atkins. Did they give you any oath to
that purpose ?
Dugdale. Yes, I was sworn ten times at
least to secrecy, and promised it on the Sacra-
ment.
Sir it. Sawyer, Besides what came in those
letters, bad you any discourse with any touching
killing the king ?
Dugdale. Yes.
Sir K. Sawyer. With whom ?
Dugdale. With Mr. Gavan, Mr. Ewers, Mr.
Lewson, and my lord Stafford.
X. C. J. And would they have persuaded you
to have done it ?
Dugdale. Yes, I was to have been employed
as an actor in itj either to have taken Lis life
away, by shooting, or by stabbing, or some
way.
X. C. J. Did they propose it to you, and
how, in what manner would they have you do
it?
Duqdals. No, m/ lord, I was not told abso-
lutely in what manner ; but I was directed to
come to London, and I should have instruc-
tions about it there.
X. C. J. Tell us again who tbey were that
did solicit you ?
Dugdale. Mr. Ewers, Mr. Gavan, Mr.
Peters, Mr. Lewson, and my lord Stafford.
Just. Atkins. My lord Stafford you say ?
Dugdale. Yes, I said so before, my lord.
X. C. J. They engaged you in the busioess
in general, you say, and you were to have direc-
tions about it at London, that is that you say ?
Dugdale. Yes*, my lord, Mr. Ireland was to
take care of me there.
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray, Sir, had you discourse
of the several ways, what ways were to be
taken?
Dugdale. I bad no particular way mention-
ed, but I was told tbat it was easy to be done
by shooting or stabbing.
X. C. J. Did you ever cone to London upon
that errand ?
Dugdale. No, never.
X. C. J. When they had eogaged yon to do
the thing, why did not they send you about it ?
Dugdale. 1 was not to come till October.
X. C. J. When was it that you were en-
gaged first ?
Dugdale. I had particular intimation of the
matter of the Plot about two years before, but
I was not to come up till October.
L.C.J. Which October?
Dugdale. Last October.
X. C. J. Why, you were engaged a great
while before, how chanced you were not to
coioe up till October ?
Dugdale. I was engaged a year and a half
before, bur it was not positively then said to
me, that I was to be instrumental in killing the
king, till that lime, which was about July, when
my lord Stafford came down, and I was to come
up in October.
X. C. J. I thought you had said that you
were engaged in it a year and half before.
Dugdale. That was only in the Plot in
general.
X. C.J. Was there no time appointed for
the killing the king then? When was it that
you were first engaged to be an instrument to
take away the king's life ?
Dugdale. Two years ago I was spoke to
about the Plot, but I was not particularly as-
signed till the last summer, and then 1 was ap-
pointed to come to London in October.
X. C. J. What said they then to you ?
Dugdale. My lord Stafford did offer me
500/. he told me I should have that for a reward
at present, and if things did go on, I should
have a better reward when the tiling was ac-
complished, but this was for my present en-
couragement.
X. C. J. When were you to hare the money f
Dugdale. When I came to London.
X. C. J. And why did not you come to Lon-
don then ?
Dugdale. I was to come to London, and the
Plot was broke out and discovered first*
Mr. Ward. Pray, do you know of any letters
about the death of sir Edmundbury Godfrey ?
Dugdale. Yes, there was a letter came dowa
to my lord Aston's, it was directed to Mr,
Ewers, and it contained in it, ' This very night
sir Edmundbury Godfrey is dispatched : those
were the words of the letter.
X. C. J. What night was tbat?
Dugdale. I have well remembered it since,
and it was Saturday night, which was about
the 12th of October, or thereabouts, as I re-
member: it bad those words, ' This very night
sir Edmundbury Godfrey is dispatched ;' and
it went on with more things relating to the Plot,
which I cannot particularly now remember;
and I catched Mr. Ewers at the reading of it,
and said I to him, ' Do you thinjt this \* the
way to have the Design succeed ? if this do not
overthrow the Plot, I will be hanged/ * Not so/
sai^ he, ' be patient, and do not mistrust it, he
was a man that was used to punish debauched
persons, aod it will rather reflect upon them
than us.'
>
605] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chahles II. \Gl9>— and others, for High Treason: [600
L. C. J. Did that letter come to your hands?
Dugdaie. Yes, it did, but it was writ to Mr.
Ewers.
Just. Atkins. What day did it come to you ?
Dugdaie. Upon Monday morning.
Just. Atkins. When was it writ ?
Dugdaie. It was writ the Saturday night
before.
X. C. J. Did Mr. Ewers shew it you ? or
did yon break open the letter ?
Ihtgdale. Mr. Ewers shewed it me for an en-
couragement, that one of bur enemies was
taken out of the way.
Just. Wyndham. Did you report it to any.
body?
Dugdaie. Yes, to the parson of the town,
and a relation of my lord Aston's.
L. C; J. What was his name ?
Dugdaie. One Mr. Sandwich and Mr.
Philips ; said I, ' Do you not hear of a knight,
a justice of Westminster, that is killed?9 * No,'
said they, ' we hear nothing of it :' but it
seems Mr. Sandwich went to dinner to ■
and there he did report it.
L. C. J. Why did they look upon sir E.
Godfrey as such an. enemy to them ?
Dugdaie. They had intrusted him before,
but he began to be strict with Dr. Oates,
searching and prying into all the whole con-
cern, as Mr. Ewers told me (for I knew no
more than he informed me of ) so they thought
good to take him off.
Sir R. Sawyer. Gentlemen, wiJI you ask him
any questions ?
Corker. I would have been glad to have
heard what he said, but I could not hear the
tenth part.
Sir R. Sawyer. Gentlemen, there is nothing
that does particularly reflect upon you at the
bar, bat is only to prove the general design of
the Plot.
Sir George Wakeman. It is the worst made
out that' ever I think was trial.
Dugdaie. If there be any more questions,
that your lordship or the Court will be pleased
to ask me, I will be sure to answer them.
L. C. J. I will tell you the effect of what he
says, and that is this; he speaks in general,
that there was a Plot to bring in Popery, and
in order to that, the best way was to kill the
king; and to that purpose, there were several
Utters sent weekly into Staffordshire, and" very
often directed by the cover to him, wherein
were seven or eight several letters, as from Ire-
land, and Harcourt, and Grove, to people that
were in Staffordshire; that is, to Ewers, and
Lew son, and Vavasor ; and many times they
^id write concerning the going on with this
Plot of killing the king, that they must use great
secrecy in it, and makes mention what officers
tbey should have for an army to- support that
matter, when they had done ; tbey engaged
him particularly first, about two years ago, to
be one in it, but more precisely in June or July
last was twelve -month, and he should have gone,
be says, in October after, up to London, in
erdcr to it; and there he should have directions
from Ireland, how he should manage himself?'
And he gives you an account, that my loroV
Stafford promised him he should have 500/. as
part of his reward, and when the work was
done, he should be better gratified; and be
says, he did intend to have gone up in October
to this purpose, but the Plot broke out, and he
was prevented.
Sir JL Sawyer. Pray, Mr. Dugdaie, you have
been formerly examined, did you hear any
thing of a massacre ? or of any particular per-
sons to be murdered, besides the king and '
duke of Monmouth ?
Dugdaie. I do not remember any m parti-
cular, but they two ; but in general, all protec-
tants they intended to eut off.
Mr. Ward. AH protestants ?
Dugdaie. Yes.
Just. Atkins. Pray, Sir, what did induce
them to have so much confidence in you? Had
you any such zeal for their religion ?
Dugdaie. Yes, insomuch that they thought I
was a priest in the country.
Just. Atkins. Had you been free of your
purse ? did you give them any money ?
Dugdaie. Yes, I gave them for this, and for.
the praying for my soul, the sum of 400/. which
was secured upon a deed of land ; and I pro-
mised them another 100/. when they made
moan for the want of money ; and when Mr.
Peters said if they did not make more haste
with their contributions, they should be at a
great loss : And Mr. Gavan promised me, I
should be canonized for a saint.
X. C. J. When had yon given the 400/.
Dugdaie. I had given it them in money, it
was upon a deed of land, which was conveyed
to Mr. Gerrard, and was to be sold for the rais-*
ing of that money.
Corker. Mr. Dugdaie, you make mention of
a certain letter sent from London here, from*
Mr. Harcourt; but not Mr. Harcourt's letter,
in which letter you say it was mentioned that
the king should be killed, and that an army
should be raised, and some such' matters of
grand design. Sir, don't you know from whom
that letter came, I ask you ?
Dugdaie. I cannot directly at present call
to mind the person^ name, I may by and by,
perhaps.
Corker. Then, my lord, I appeal to the court
and beg the judgment of the court, whether a
letter of that vast concernment about killing
the king, the destruction of the nation, and the
raising of an army, should be sent from a man
that he himself does not, nor can tell his name,
nor the place this letter came from. That a
man should be so mad to send by the common'
post a letter of such vast concern, and yet nei-
ther the party to whom, nor the party from
whom it came, be remembered.
Dugdaie. I can give you satisfaction, as to
some letters I have received, and I can tell you
m particular from , whence they came. One*
came from Paris to St: Omers, and so from St.
Omers to London, and from thence by a spe-*
pecial messenger to Tixall in Staffordshire;
and my lord Aston and Mr. Ewers read it
one night in my sight, in the parlour.
Corker. Just now he said it was bj a special
messenger ; before be said, the letters came by
a common peat.
Dugdale. I speak of another letter now,
than those I spake of before.
X. C. J. He did, indeed, say before, that
there was a letter as you repeat it, that bad
the importance of killing the king, but he
could not particularly charge himself with the
person that writ it, but, saith he, I can now re-
member another letter, that was sent by a spe-
cial messenger, and he will tell you who that
letter was writ by, and who it came from.
From whom came it ?
Corker. That was only to correct a former
lie.
Dugdale. There was J. W. writ to it, and I
suppose it was from sir John Warner.
X. C. J. Where was * dated? Whence did
it come ?
Dugd. There was one from Paris, it was first
began at Paris where advice was first to be had,
and assistance was promised, how it should he
carried on, and they thought it was the best
way, after they bad killed the king, for the
papists to give the first alarm, that it was those
still king-killing presbyterians that had done that
act, and that then the church of England men
would be willinger to join with the papists to cut
them off.
X. C. J. This was the substance of the letter?
Dugdale. Yes, this was the substance of the
letter. And the letters from London said, they
thought it good advice, and there were several
lords in England set their hands to it, acknow-
ledging it as good advice s And in that very let-
ter there was an army mentioned, that there
should be an army ready to cut off those
that should escape having their throats cut.
X. C. J. Who brought 'that letter ?
Dugdale. I do not know who brought it from
London to Boscobel, but there was a special
messenger brought it thence to Tixal), and his
name was Camngton.
X. C. J. You say there were several lords
set their hands to it ; what lords were they f
Dugdale. I have formerly mentioned them,
there was my lord Stafford, my lord Bellasis, and
my lord Arundel.
X. C. J. To what purpose did they set their
hands to it?
Dugdale. That they approved it as good ad-
vice.
X. C. J. Then, gentlemen, this is that he
says, here is a letter that was brought by oae
Carrington, to my lord Aston's, and the sub-
stance of the letter was to justify the killing of
the k;ingf by (he raising or an army, and that
this letter came from St.- Omers, and that it had
the letters J. W, subscribed to it, which was
supposed to be sir John Warner, and that that
letter was looked upon by some at London, and
that they, as approving of it, set their hands
to it as good advice, and then sent it down into
the country.
679.— Trial ef Sir George Wakeman, [60S
Corker. Was the letter dated fremSt. Omers P
Was St. Omers writ, in the inside, what say you f
Speak.
Dugdale. There were three letters, I say,
that came in that pacquet from St. Omers ; one
came from Paris, another from St. Omers, and
another from London.
X. C. J. And all these in one cover ?
Dugdale. Yes,
Sir G. Wakeman. How could the same cover
cover all those letters ?
Dugdale. All these letters were covered in
Grove's pacquet.
L.C.J. Here is the matter; he supposes
then} was a letter writ, first at Paris, and that
is then sent to St. Omers ; and then there was a
, letter writ there, by sir John Warner, or some
of them, and sent to Loadoo, perused in Eng-
land by the lords, and all sent in one cover into
Staffordshire.
Corker. Your lordship makes sense of it, hut
he made none but contradictions, and said be
did not know whence it came, nor who writ it.
You say, sir, you were one of those to kill the
king ? pray when were you to kill the king ?
Dugdale. In October, I was to have done it,
when I came up.
Corker. My lord, here is a plot and design
driven on several ways, to murder the king.
Dr. Oates in his Narrative,* as I perceive, gives
us a description of several contrivances that
were made use of to commit this murder. He
in all bis descriptions, tells us only, as I take it,
of three ways of killing the king, the one by
Grove and Pickering, another oy the ruffians,
I know not whom, a third was by poison ; now
Dr. Oates, in all his relations, makes not any
mention of a fourth design to kill the king, or
of any other plot or design at London to kill
the king ; but he says, if Grove and Pickering
miscarried, it was to be done by the four ruf-
fians, and they miscarrying, it was to be done
by poison, now comes he with a thing that
neveV was thootht of before, that Oates never
gives any relation of.
X. C. J. What then?
Corker. He, my lord, tells us, that this was
to be done iu October, when all the other things
that were to be done were past ; and what,
should they design to kill the king in October,
when it was to be done before in July or August?
X. C. J. Look you, the first part of your
objection, wherein you say he names but three
ways of killing the king, what do you infer
from that ? that because this gentleman says
there was a fourth, there was not. Dr. Oaten
told you as much as he knew of the matter, bat
be does not undertake to give you an account of
all the plot or plotters in this affair. If your
make any reasonable objection against Mr,
Dugdale's testimony, I will allow it, but these
inferences I must not. That thin is a strange
story of Mr. Dugdale's, because it is not
part of Oates's discovery, is that a reason-
able objection ? But then for the latter part,
* See vol.0, p. 1*48.
€09] STATE TRIALS, SI Chau.es II. 1G79 — <md otkert.for High Tretum. [610
thai Dr. Oates says the king was to have been
killed in July or August, therefore what should
they think of killing him iu October, be tells
you, that in June, and July they did engage him
in the general plot, and first then to be instru-
mental in killing the king, but he was not to be
gone till October to London to do it.
Corker. When the thing was done.
Just. Wyndham. No, no, because the thing
was not done, or because it might miscarry by
others, therefore he was to come then.
L. C.J. They could not tell when it would
he, done, or by what hand it would be done-;
therefore they were engaging as many as they
conl<K provided the thing were not done.
Manual. Amongst other things that seem to
render hk testimony suspected, there is one
which is taken from the common practice of ail
men, in cases e/ like nature, for where there is
danger in mattens of concernment, men use to
be very circumspect who they choose, and make
choice of as few as possible ; but now here is'
person after, person, conspiring without end,
aod letters to jhis person, and to that person,
and nothiog is proved to be done upon it, so
that here is the greatest contusion imaginable,
an bandred of men, nay almost a whole na-
tion are acquainted with it, when a few might
serve the turn.
Sir R. Sawyer* Why do you say it was
known to the whole nation^ when it was so
close a conspiracy?
I* C.J. North. You are at the bar; we
do not object to what you say, as to the way
of it, but as to the time that you deliver it in ;
it is the course, that you deliver your objec-
tions when the king's evidence is done ; indeed,
when the king's counsel have done what ques-
tions they have to ask of the witnesses, then
you may ask them what questions you will, but
for the observations that you would make by
way of objection to the evidence, and as to
their credit, you should reserve. that to the last,
when the king's evidence is done.
Prisoner*. My lord we desire we may be
allowed pen, ink and paper.
Mr. Recorder. (Sir George Je&ries.) Let
them have it.
L. C. J. Indeed, there is .one thing very,
considerable on your side, and it is fit there
should be an account given of it. It is very
.strange, that a thing of that nature should be
writ so plain, I mean the killing of the king, in
a letter that should be sent by the common
post ; what say you to that ?
Dugdaie. Mr. Ewers did it for no other end
in the world, but that they intended, if it
should be discovered, all should be flung upon
me, aod I was sworn to deny it, and they were
to go free.
Lu C. J. What were the words of the letter ?
Dugdaie, In that of Mr. Whitehead's, it
was contained downright plainly, * he should
cbooee such as were hardy, for the killing of
the king/
L. C.J. And how did that letter, come ?
Dugdaie. By the fiommon, post,
yol, Yii.
Sir G. Wakeman. No man living can be-
heve it.
Just. P ember torn. There was no mention of
Ewers, on the outside, norv no uame to it, was
there ? ,
Dugdaie. No, none at all, my lord.
Just. Pemberton. No name to the letters ?
Dugdaie. Only the two first letters of their
names.
Marshal. Would they, in such case, can
any man think, be so mad as to venture their
lives, and all, for they knew not what ? Would
the lords, whose names, he says, were subscrib-
ed to one of the letters, engage their lives and
fortunes in the signing of a letter, wherein both
were so much endangered, and commit it to
such an hasard.
RumUy. Would they set their hands to
such a letter, as they could not be certain into
whose hands it might come ? and he says, be*
does not know who it came from.
Just. Pemberton. Mr. Dugdaie, was that let-
ter by a common post, that the lords set their
hands to ?
Dugdaie. No, it was by a special messenger.
L. C. J. Look you, gentlemen, the answer
that he gives to your objection is this ; You say
it is strange, and indeed it is so, that such. a
design should be writ so plain io English, in a
letter ; but he says there was nobody in dan-
ger by it, but himself, for there was nobody
could tell from whence it came, because only
two letters of the name were subscribed ; and,
says he, it vqas directed to me only, and so I
might have suffered, but Ewers name was upt
mentioned, to whom it was intended to go.
Rumley. .Yet he says he docs not certainly
know who it came from.
Mr., Recorder. Gentlemen, you have your
proper time for that, if you will make any se-
marks.
Justice. Petnbert on. Will you ask htm any
more questions ? As for your arguments, you
must not use them now.
L. C. J. North. But they have desired pen,
ink, and paper ; is it given to tbetn ?
Mr. Recorder. You must allow the prisoners
pen, ink, dhd paper, if they desire it.
L. C. J. Ay, all of them, if they would have
it. [Which was done.]
i. C. J. Mr. Duodale, this letter that came
from Whitebread, it came with others, did it
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord, it did.
jL. C. J. The cover was directed to you, was
it nut ?
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord, it was.
£< C. J, Had the other letters particular di-
rections to particular persons ?
Dugdaie. Every letter was directed to me.
L. C. J. What, besides the cover?
Dugdaie. Yes, besides the cover.
I* C. J. Who were you to communicate
them to ?
Dugdaie. They. had. a particular mark that
they were known by* there was always a black,
cross upon them. I was to give then* to Mr.
2R
*! 1] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Cbaiu.es II. 1(579.— Trial tf Sir George Wakeman, [012
Ewers, and be was to communicate them
others concerned.
L. C. J. What was upon {he other letters ?
Dugdaie. I had no letters but what I deli-
vered to Ewers.
L. C. J. Was* he the only man that they
were delivered to ?
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. And he distributed them as he
pleased, did he ?
Dugdaie. Yes.
L. C. J. Had vou more marks than one ?
Dugdaie. No, my lord.
L. C. J. So you were only agent between
Mr. Ewers and them, and none else t
Justice Wyndfiam. They were all directed to
you, how did he know who they were to go to ?
Dugdaie. I was to deliver them to him, and
he dispersed them to the several persons, and
he rid constantly abroad about it.
L. C. J. Were there several marks to know
* who they were to f
Dugdaie. My ford, he knew, by conversing
with them, their several hands/ and so could
' tell, by what was written, what was intended,
and what the business was, and for whom.
Corker. There must have been several trans-
' actions, and a man most have received several
letters, before he knows another^ hand.
Justice Pemberton. Will you ask htm any
questions ? you must not argue upon it yet.
Rum ley. How many letters came to you,
pray, from beyond sea ?
Dugdaie. An hundred, I believe, in two
years time.
Rumlev. From how many several persons f
Met bin ks you should produce some of those
letters.
Dugdaie. There were letters from sir John
' Warner very often. I cannot remember all.
Rumlty. Methioksyou might be more" ready
in your evidence, than upon every tarn to 'say,
You cannot remember. Have you none of
those letters?
Dugdaie. I burnt those letters which I kept,
before I intended to discover the Plot ; but in
' a multitude of letters, it is hard to tell parti-
culars, I tell you what I remember of them.
to / Corker. Why, there are three officers to-
wards the raising of several thousands of met*.
Justice Pemberton. Look you, Mr. Corker,
you mutt direct yourself to the court, and pro-
pose your questions here.
Corker. Mr. Dugdaie tells us, that for the
promoting of this design, that he gave 4001.
and with the same breath says, he was to re^
ceive 500/. Methinks this is to do and undo.
Justice Dolben. Pray keep this arguing of
yours till the last.
L. C. J. North. ^The court bath told yon
already, this is not proper for you. It is true,
you must have liberty to ask questions, be-
cause there are some questions that el*e may
be forgotten, and the opportunity will be lost :
but when you have asked those questions,
make your own observations upon them in
private to yourselves, and afterwards St will be
time for you to argue upon it to the jury, when
the king s counsel shall have done their evi-
dence : but now to make these inferences will
do you little service, and cannot be permitted.
bugdale. My lord, I desire to answer it now.
Ic was my lord Stafford that promised me the
money, and I went' presently to know of Mr.
Ewers what it meant, because I had given my
money before, and my lord Stafford did not, I
suppose, know any thing of it.
L.'C. J. How long was it before that you
gave the money ?
Dugdaie. It was two or three«yeara before ;
at the beginning, when the Plot was first dis-
covered to me, for the introducing of their re-
ligion.
Justice Atkins. He was a great zealot, but
my lord Stafford did suppose the money might
quicken him.
Dugdaie. It was for my encouragement, and
I should have a greater reward after.
Corker. He received the money, I suppose,
when he was in prison for debt, rather than for
any thing else.
L. C. J. North, You may observe that by
and by.
L. C. J. Look you, this is what be hath
said, it is all but in general, and he does not
name any of you four : but here was a general
specified in two letters. In those matters
which concerned the raising of an army, were
there only letters, no commissions tent, for the
raising of forces ? Did you never see any of
the officers ? Did you never communicate with
any of them ?
L. C. J. Did you see any commissions first ?
\d&U. JNow I never did see any of them.
J. Didjyou ever talk with any that
were intended to be officers ?
Dugdaie. Yes, I have.
X. C. J. Name them.
Dugdaie. There was sir James Symons^and
Mr. Howard, I have talked with them.
L. C. J. With them two ?
Dugdaie. And with one captain Adderley,
that is dead.
Corker. Yon make mention of killing tbefheontrivance, he says, to bring in popery.- I am
king, and raising an army, and these were afraid that is too true ; and as the best way to
effect that, they resolved to kill the king ; and
I am "afraid that is too htrue too ; for it was
indeed the likeliest way.
Then stood up Mr. Praunce.
Mr. Ward. Give the court an account, only
in general, of what you know of any design
that was at this time f
Praunce. It was a fortnight or three weeks
before Michaelmas 1 went to one Mr. Ireland's
chamber, in Russei-street, where was Mr. Fen-
wick and Mr. Grove, and there they were dis-
coursing of 50,000 men that were to be raised,
for the settling of the Roman Catholic religion,
and I asked Mr. Fen wick, how that could be
done ? And he said, Very easily, in a short
time. Then I slaked him, What poor trades*
613] STATE TRIALS,, SI Charles II. 1679>— mf others, for High Trenton. [OU
men should do ? and he said, I need not fear,
for I should have church-work enough, to make
crucifixes, basons and candle sticks.
Justice Atkins. You are a working gold-
smith ?
Praunce. Yes. Then I asked, who should
govern them ? And he said, my lord Powis, my
lord Stafford, my lord Arundel, my lord Bella-
sis and my lord Petre. Two or three days after
that, Grove came to my shop to buy some
spoons for a christening ; and then I did ask
him, what office be' was to have ? He said he
did not know, but he said, that my lord Bella-
sis, my lord Powis, and my lord Petre, had
commissions to govern the army. And after
that, there was one Mr. Paston in Duke-street,
I went to him, to know how I could direct a
letter ; and after a little time, we fell into dis-
course concerning the affairs of the times. He
told me, the lords had given out commissions,
one was to sir Henry Bennyfield in Norfolk,
another wae to Mr. Stoner in Oxfordshire, and
another was to Mr. Talbot of Longford. He
said that they had given commissions for to
raise an army.
Mr. Ward. What was that army to do ? *
Praunce. It was to settle the Catholic Reli-
gion.
Mr. Word. Did you hear any thing mention-
ed of killing the king?
Praunce. Yes, I did.
L. C. J. Who told you . this that you speak
of about the commissions ?
Prauncc. Mr. Paston, my Lord, in Duke-
street.
L. C. J. Was he a priest?
Praunce. No, but be kept some in his house,
and they said mass every morning.
X. C. J. Is he of any profession ?
Praunce. He was a counsellor, but doth hot
practise now, he hath an estate of 5 or 600 a
year.
JL C. J. Now go on, and say what oe w>ld
yon.
Praunce. He said, there were commissions
given out to sir Henry Benny&eld and one Tal-
bot of Longford.
JL C. J. When was it he told you this ?
Praunce. It was in August last.
L. C.J. And did be say they had commis-
sions sent to tnem ?
% Praunce. Yes, they had them in the coun-
try, where they were to raise their troops : I
heard of more, but I only remembered those
three. r
Mr. Ward. Do you know one Messenger?
Praunce. Yes.
Mr. Ward. What discourse had you with
?
Praunce. My lord's butler told me ■ ■
L. C. J. Who told you ?
Praunce. My lord's butler.
L.C.J. What lord?
Praunce. My lord Arundel. He waited
then on one Sheldon, that was Almoner to the
dutches* of York. He told me, That Mr. Mes-
senger waa to -hill the king and he was to have
a good reward for the same. Soon, after
I was going over Lincoln VInn-Fields, and
met with Mr. Messenger, and asked him, Whf
he would kill the king ? ife seemed to be sur-
prised, and starting back said, Woo told you
that ? Said I, your butler told me. Oh, said
be, we are quite off of that now : but then I '
was going away, and| he called me back,
and asked me, if I would go and drink with
him? No, said 1, I cannot stay at this time*
However, pray said he, keep counsel, for we
are off that now.
Mr. Ward. Will you ask the witness any
questions ?
Corker. Yes, my lord. Those commissions
you spesk of, when were they sent; in August ?
Praunce- No, I do not say so ; but that
Mr. Paston told me of them in August. I can-
not tell the day.
Sir R. Sawyer. Ifvou observe it, gentlemen,
he only tells you what some of the priests and
persons of your religion acquainted him with ;
not any thing particularly against you.
Mr. Ward. Then next we call Mr. Jennison.
Who stood up.
Sir R. Sawyer. Mr. Jennison, pray give the
court an account of what you know of any
design in hand, or what discourse you. had with
any person about such a thing.
Jennison. Sir, in the month of June 1678, 1
was at Mr. Ireland's chamber.
Sir it. Sawyer. Where, sir ? -
Jennison. In Russel-btreet, next the White-
Hart. And there arose a discourse about reli-
fion and some hopes there were, he said, that the ,
tomisb Religion should be publicly owned
again in England ; and when I came in, I re-
member Mr. Ireland did say there was only
one in the way, that stopped the gap, and hin-
dered the Catholic religion from flourishing ia .
England again ; and said, it was an easy mat-
ter to poison the king.
X. C. J. Who was by, pray, when he said so ?
Jennison. His sister was by.
X. C. J. Name her, sir.
Jennison. Mrs. Anne Ireland.
X. C. J. Who else ?
Jennison. None else.
X. C. /.'Then there was only you, and
Ireland, and his sister. And you say, that the/
were discoursing concerning their hopes of
bringing in Religion, and Ireland said, there
was but one in the way, and that it was not
an hard matter to poison the king.
Jennison. Yes, my lord ; and so I not know-
ing any thing at all of the plot, or imagining the
design, did answer, Perhaps it may be done,
but it would be a very horrid thing, if it should.
Then Mrs.Jreland did rebuke her brother, and
asked him, Why he talked so ? and then he an-
swered with some salvo, or other, That he did
not think it ought to be done. Then I pur-
sued t(ie discourse about religion, and told him,
I thought it would never come in by violence,
and that it was a great scandal to religion for
the professors of it to propagate and promote
it by any suaji ways t And then I put him is
(#15] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chakles II. 1679.— Trial qf Sir George Wakemmi, [616
mind of the Gunpowder-Treason, of the ill
success it had, and the greut injury it did to the
cause. * He answered, that was only a state
trick, and an invention of my lord Cecil's.
L. C. J. Ay, they do say so, 1 know ; were
you a papist then ? '
Jennison. Yes, my lord, I was.
L. C. J. Are you one still ?
' Jennison. No, my lord.
Ward. Mr. Jemmon, were you with him
again at any time ? and what time was it that
you met him, as you remember ?
Jennison. The 19th of August, after I came
from Wiudsor.
L. C. J. Where did you see him ?
Jennison. At his own chamber in Russel-
street.
L. C. J. How do you so precisely remember
the day, that it was the 19th of August r
Jennison. I remember it by this ; the begin-
ning of August I went to Tun bridge with Mr.
Tonstall and another gentleman, and there I
staid till the 14th, when I came to town, and
staid two or three days, and on Saturday in
the afternoon I went to Windsor to take my
leave of Mr. Bowes, being to go down into
the North ; at»d there I staid all Sunday, and
came back again on Monday morning, and
came to town about twelve o'clock the 19th
day, as I have considered it since it was, and a
Monday.
L. C. J. And then you went to Ireland's
chamber, did you ?
Jennison. Yes, then I went to Mr. Ireland's
chamber.
L. C. J. By the oatTi you have taken, be-
cause it is very material, not to your cause, but
it* shews how fit it is that the world should
know with what truth or faUhood these men
dare die, and (lis man did in particular. It
was affirmed by him to the very last of his
breath, thnt he was never' here in Loudon after
the 3rd of August, till some time in September,
but was all the while in Staffordshire; and they
did rt the last trial produce sir John Southcot,
and his coachman, and his lady, and I know
not how, many other witnesses, to give ah ac-
count where he was from the 3rd of August, all
along till the middle of September ; and they
testified that they kept 16 days together in his
company ; and then they produced people in
• Cheshire to say, that they saw him there.
Therefore I do now ask you upon your oath,
are you sure. that you saw Ireland here the 19tb
of August?
Jennison. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Do you swear that positively?
Je unison. Yfs, my lord, I do.
Sir R. Sawyer. lie will tell you the discourse
he had with him then.
Jennison. After that I came to Mr. Ireland's
chamber, I understood he was newly come out
of Staffordshire. And he pulled off his boots
while I was there upon the frame of a table, or
else upon a juck, I cannot positively tell which,
but I believe it was on a frame of a table. I
asked hira how all our friends did in Stafford-
shire? He told me, very well, and- that they
would be glad to see me there. Then be asked
me whence I came, and where I bad been ? I'
told him I had been at Windsor. He asked
roe, what news? How the court diverted them-
selves ? I told him, I understood bis majesty
took great delight in hawking and fishing, and
chiefly in fishing, and used to go out very early
in the morning, accompanied only with three
or four persons of quality.
L. C. J. Did he ask you what company "he
had ? Or did you tell him of your own ac-
cord ?
Jennison. No, I think I told him of my own
accord, that the king went out very early, and
had but little company with him. Lord, said
he, I wonder the king, should go so thinly
guarded, he were easily taken off, I wonder he
should go so open. Said 1, God forbid, sore
nobody would be so wicked ; and then he qua-
lified it by some expression ; so that at that
time I made no ill reflection upon it, till after
the plot broke out, and then discoursing of it to
my father and my sisters, I said, 1 wish it be not
true, pray God there be nothing in this plot,
because qf the discourse that happened between
Mr. Ireland and me. It is very suspicions,
said 1.
Sir jR. Sawyer. At that time had you anv
discourse whence he came, and about his weari-
ness?
Jennison. He said he came out of Stafford-
shire, and came post. I understood he came
very early that morning. I told him that scho-
lars, such as he, would rather choose to come
upon an ambling horse, and that I was weary
myself.
Sir R. Sawyer. Were you very well acquaint-
ed with Mr. Ireland that suffered ?
Jennison. Yes, very well.
Sir it. Sawyer. Are you sure he was in Lon-
don the 19th of August ?
Jennison. Yes, and I talked with him then.
L. C. J. How long had you known him be-
fore ?
Jennison. A yea* and a half.
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray when did you go out of
London to the north ? What time did you go
away ?
Jennison'. I went the 4th of September, as
the coach-book will make it appear.
L. C. J. The evidence tbey gave was, that
he did not come to town till the 13th of Sept.
but he was gone the 4th it seems to the north,
and that is before that time. Well, will yon ask
him any questions ?
Corker. Mr. Ireland had been in' Stafford-
shire ? Had not he ? for the 19th you say he
came to town, I do not well remember, but the
design of the ruffians of killing the king, about
which Oates speaks, was before1 the 19th, at
the consult of which Ireland was so grand' an
instrument.
L. C. /. That was in May, was tt not ?
Corker. No, that of the ruffians was in Au-
gust, as he says.
Sir R. Sawyer. Wfil you ask Kim any qoet>
#317] STATE TRIALS, SI Chailbb II. 1670 — and other*, for High'Treason. ~ [61ft
tfoes? Look upon bim; you see how creditable
a witness he is.
Corker. Did you, pray Sir, leave your reli-
gion, and make this discovery before the pre-
tended plot came oat ? When did you leave
your religiun ?
Jennison. A boot three months ago.
L. C. J. He told you that 'as soon- as* the
plot broke out, said he, I told my sisters and my
lather of it, and said, I praj Gcjd this plot have
not more in it than we are aware of, for 1 had
some discourse with Mr. Ireland, which I took
no notice of then, because he quali6ed it at
that time, and said it was not lawful; and did
make nothing of it then, but now it runs much
io my mind.
Corker. This he says, hut this man did not
leave his religion, nor make this discovery 'till
it appeared advantageous to him so to do.
Recorder. Jt is an observation you make,
but it had been well if you, and nil of that per*
suasion, would have left if when you saw what
it led to.
L. C.J. I know not what advantage you
snean, nor do I see any colour you have to sav
so, for they say that this gentleman's father is
one of 1,000/. a .year, and he is his eldest serf.
Corker. Are you your father's eldest son ?
. Recorder. There is an eider brother, my lord,
but he is a priest.
L.C. J. Is your elder brother a priest?
Jennison. My lord, I do not know that, he is
io Newgate about it.
i. C. J. It is reported that he is so ?
Jennison. My lord, I don't know it of my
own knowledge.
Corker. He does not know it, and therefore
he is not the heir, and therefore the advantage
of bis estate is not such, but that be might lay
bold of this discovery.
Sir R. Sawyer. I hope by and by, gentle-
.men, you will make a better defence than this.
Justice Pemberton. What you say should
be hy way of question proposed to the Court.
Recorder. But you take it upon your oath
that you saw Ireland the 19th of August T Was
that after you met with Mr. Bowes ?
Jennison. I did not meet with Mr. Bowes.
Recorder. How long after you had left him
was it r
Jennison. I did not see him there, I went to
see him, but he was not there.
L. 0. J. But he says precisely that the 19th1
of August he' Went to Mr. Ireland's chamber,
where he saw' him pluck off his boots, and
talking as if he bad come out of Staffordshire,
post, so that indeed he Was in Staffordshire, but
not alt that time he said he was. *
Ward. Then pray call Mr. BoWes. Who
was swohi.
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray, Sir, will yoo give the
Court an account, wheif you saw this gentle-
man, and about what time he' #ent out of
town?
Bowes. My lord, I saw him in August, the
beginning, or abjut the middle of August, in
Tunbridge, before my coming to town.
Sir R.&twyer. Pray when did he leave this*
town-? when did he go out of town?
Bowes. I cannot point blank tell the time,
bot I could recollect myself, 1 believe, in a-little
time.
Sir R. Sawyer. Do yon know of his going to
Windsor?
Bowes. I did not see him* there, but he writ
a letter to me that he went thither to meet me
there, but I saw him not till he came to town
again.
L. C. J. Who is it you speak of?
Bowes. Mr, Jennison.
Sir JR. Sawytr. What did be write' you in
that letter ?
Bowes. Sir, the letter is here in Court, I don't
remember the particulars.
Sir IS; Sawyer. Is it here in Court ?
Bowes. Yen, it is, I think.
Recorder. Shew it biro, for it may refresh
bis memory about the time. [Which was
tdone.j
L C. J. Is that the letter?
Bowes. This is the letter.
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray, when did yoo receivftv
it?
Bowes. It was in December before Christ*
mas, here is a gentleman that tlien saw it.
Sir Jt. Saayer. Pray, Sir, will you please to
look upon it, and then acquaint the court with*
some of the contents. »
1* C. J. North. You are sure, Mr. Bowes,
that Mr Jennison was in town in August?
h«W't. He came then from Tun bridge.
1* C. J. That is all, we can make no more
of it : Did he meet you at Windsor?
Bowes. No, my lord, I was gone to Windsor
[before, and when he came I was gone out of
jthe town.
L. C. J. What time went you to Windsor?
» Bowes. The 19th or 13th of August'; if
•was on a Monday or a Tuesday after I came*
from Tunbridge.
Sir R. Sawyer. Then We shall call one witness-
! more, and we shall prove by him (that is one-
Mr Burnet) that the J7tli of August he did1
'meet Mr. Jennison going to WinuW. Pray'
call Mr. Burnet. [Who was- sworn.!
L. C. J. Pray, Sir, <io you- kooW Mr! Jeoni-
son.
Burnet I met him as I was' coming floor
Windsor that day Dotchf t's horse-race- wet.
L. C J. V> hat day was that ?
Burnet. .1 cannot exactly remember the'
day.
t X. C.J. What month was it?
< Burnet. In August.
1 L. C. J. Was it the middle of August* or
! the latter end/
| Burnet. It was about the middle1 of August.
I h. C. J. This does not so much relate to-
■you,- but- it is to give satisfaction to all the'
; world, that' what was asserted by Mr. Ireland
{all along, and- at his death, and seem* tO^.|M
justified by so many, witnesses ae were pro*
jduceaV oh that account, to prove that he was
{not' here ra August is1 utterly untrue; for
619] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— Trial qfSir George Wakeman, [G20
gentleman, Mr. Jennison, sweats he saw bint
here in town the 19th of August ; and to
prove that Mr. Jennison was here, here is Mr.
Bowie and this other gentleman that come to
fortify his testimony, who swears precisely, that
the 19th of August he was at Mr. Ireland's
chamber, where be saw him pluck off his, boots,
and talked as if he came post then from. Staf-
fordshire.
Corker. I suppose it will not be permitted
us to make any argument upon this neither as
yet.
L. C. J. No, no.
Sir JR. Sawyer. But now, gentlemen, it
will behove you to take notes, for we shall
come home to you, and we begin with Dr.
Oates. [Who stood up.]
Mr. Ward. , Pray, Sir, will you tell your
whole knowledge of this matter, and apply
yourself as near as yon can to every one of
the prisoners at the bar?
Oates, My lord, in the month of July Mr.
Ashby came to town sick, and being sick, and
one of the society, the prisoner at the bar, sir
George Wakeman, was his physician, and
>being his physician he did write him some in-
structions how he should order himself before
he went, and at the Btth ; That he should, in
the first place, take a pint of milk in the morn-
ing, and a pint of milk at night, and should
drink no morning's draughts but milk, and
that he should have one hundred strokes at the
bath, at the pump ; I do not so well under-
stand what that means, but I suppose the court
doth; but these were the words of the instruc-
tions : In this letter sir George Wakeman did
write, that the queen would assist him to poison
the king, and this letter was brought by a
messenger to Mr. Ashby. Within a day or
two after I saw Mr. Ashby and sir George
Wakeman, the prisoner at the bar (he was so
called, but I had no acquaintance with him, but
just the sight of him) I saw him sit in a writing
posture, I saw him lay by his pen, rise up and go
away, and tfre same hand that he left behind
him in a paper where the ink was not dry, was
the same hand that writ the letter to Mr.
Ashby. And, my lord, in that time of con-
verse, while he was writing this, Mr. Ashby did
give him some instructions concerning the com-
mission he had received of being physician to
the army. Nov, my lord, in some few days
after there came a gentleman for some of the
Fathers from Wild-House, that had. the title
either of sir Richard or sir Robert, but he was
a middle statured man, and n brisk man, about
the age of four or five and forty, and he came
with commands from the queen for the Fathers
to wait upon her at Somerset-House, and I did
wait upon these Fathers, there was Father Har-
conrt, Father Kaines, Father Langworth, and
Father Fenwick, and another Father, I can-
not remember his name. And, may. it pie se
your lordship, we did attend at Somerset-House,
and the Fathers went in to the- queen, into a
chamber where she was, and I waited in . an
anti-chamber, and I did hear % woman's voice
which did. say, that afie would assist them in the
propagation of the Catholic religion with her.
estate, and that she would* not endure these
.violations of her bed any longer, and that
she would assist sir George Wakeman in
the poisoning of the king. Now, my lord,
when they came out I desired that I might see
the queen, and so when I came in I had, as I
believe, from her a gracious smile. Now, if
it pleases your lordship, while that 1 was with-
in £ heard the same voice speak tjiua to Father
Harcourr, and asked him, whether he had re-
ceived the last 1,000/. and it was the same
tongue, as I can possibly guess, the same voice
which I heard when I was without; and I saw
no other woman there but the queen, and there
were these Fathers. My lord, in that very
month of July, sirG. Wakeman was proposed
10,000/. in the presence of Father Harcourr,
and Father Fenwick, J think was there, and
Father Ireland.
X. C. J. Were you there?
Oates. I. was there.
X. C. J. Was this proposal made to sir G.
Wakeman after this discourse you heard at
Somer&et-^iouse ?
Oatet. My lord, I will not be positive whe-.
ther it was before or after, but it was near that
time this 10.000/. he did refuse.
X. C. J. But you say you heard the 10,000/.
was proffered him ; pray, who did propose it to
him? — Oatet. Ashby was to do it.
X. C. J. But who did it ?
Oates. It was Ashby in the name of the pro-
vincial, from whom he had received instruc-
tions so to do.
X. C. J. But you say, in your hearing
10,000/. was offered him by Ashby,
Oates. Yes, my lord.
L.C.J. What said he?
Oates. He refused it.
X. C. J. What words did he use ?
Oates. He said it was too little.
X. C. J. What was the 10,000/. to be given
for? — Oates, To poison the king.
X. C. J. Were those the words ?
Oates. Yes, they were.
X. C. J. How did the discourse begin ?
Oates. I will tell your lordship how: There
was a meeting of the Fathers for this very pur-,
pose to treat with sir G. Wakeman before
Ashby went to the Bath, and there being a
meeting they did break this business to him;
but what preamble they made to it I cannot
remember. My lord, as for the other prisoners
at the bar, Mr. Corker — x
X. C. J. But before you go from this matter,
you say#you know not how they brought it in,
but they brought it in some way, he was to
meet them to that purpose, and there Ashby
did tell him he should have 10,000/.; what an-
swer made be to it?
. Oates. He said it was too little for so great a
work.
£. C. J. Is that all ?
Dates. w That is all that I remember,
X. C. J. Did he say what be would have?
681] STATE TRIALS* 31 Chaeles II. 1670.— and others, far High Treason. [G»
Oates. I can't remember that, but be said
that was too little.
L. C. J. Did be fay he would have five
more, or any other sum ?
Gates. No, that was not then mentioned;
but there were letters presently dispatched to
Whitebread to tell him, that sir G. Wakeroan
had refused 10,000/. and then this same White-
bread did order the Fathers in London to pro-
pose Jive more, which proposal was made to
sir G. Wakeman. This I speak but hv hear-
say, and it was accepted, and 5,000/. of it re-
ceived in part, and sir G. Wakeman's name
was subscribed to the Entry-book.
L. C. J. Did you see his name sobscribed ?
Gates, Yes, my lord. I did.
L.C.J. Where }— Oates. To the Entry- book.
JL C. J. Where was that book kept J
Oates. It was the book that the Jesuits kept:
il was then in oar custody.
L. C J. Whose custody ?
Gates. The Fathers custody.
JL C J. Whose particularly ? and at whose
chamber was it kept ?
Gates. At Wild-bouse.
Sir Rob. Sawyer. Do you know who was the
keeper of it ?
Gates. I cannot positively say that, I sup-
pose the secretary and the Fathers.
Sir Rob. Sawyer. And what did you see writ
io that book?.
Gates. That such a day,' (which day I cannot
remember) but such a day in August so much
was proposed to sir G. Wakeman, and he ac-
cepted it, and received it: those were the
words, or to that purpose.
L. C. J. Were those the words writ in the
book?
Gates. Yes, or to that purpose.
JL C. J. Do you know whose hand writ
that ?
Gates. Yes, my lord, I can tell, whose
band, it was Father llarcourt writ those
words.
L. C. J. Sir G. Wakeman's hand was not to
it, was it?
Gates. Yes, it was just underneath : Receiv-
ed so much money of Father Harcourt by the
order of Edward Coleman : now there was the
goldsmith's name to it, I cannot undertake to
say who it was, but in my conscience I think
it was Stale?.*
L. C. J. How much was the money ?
Gates. Five thousand pounds. *
L. C. J. Was sir G. Wakeman's hand sub-
scribed to that receipt ?
Gates. Yes, it was.
L. C. J. Once more, what were the words
in the book ?
Gates. Memorandum. Such a day 15,000/.
was proposed to sir G. Wakeman which he ac-
cepted. I tell you the purport, and the words
as near as I can.
L. C. J. Was it said for what the money was
proposed.
* See his Case, ante, vol. 6. p. 1502.
Gates. I will not be positive in that, I sup-
pose it was.
L. C. J.» But you say it was written such a
day 15,000/. was* proposed to sir G. Wakeman,
and by him accepted ?
Gates. Yes, my lord, and then underneath it
the receipt was written, and this receipt was
written thus, u Received in part of this
11 15,000/. 5,000/. of Father Harcourt by order
" of Edward Coleman. Geo. Wakeman/'
L. C. J. Was the receipt, which is said Such
a day, the same day with the other ?
Gates. There was no other date to it.
L. C, J. Had ilir first a date to it ?
Gates. Yes, ray lord, it had.
L. C. J. What day was it ?
Gates. It was in August ?
Corker. What day in August ?
Gates. I cannot tell.
Corker. About what time in August ?
Gates. It might be betwixt the beginning
and the middle. ,
L. C. J. But we will suppose for the present
question a day : Suppose it was written the
10th of August, " There was proposed 15)000/.
" to Sir G. Wakeman and by him accepted,"
and then comes afterwards this note, " Received
" then 5,000/. in part of this 15,000//' with his
name to it. Was there any other date to
that ?
Gates. No, that was set down at the same
day, " Received 5,000/. in part by the order of
" Edward Coleman/'
L. C. J. And then sir G. Wakeman's name
was set tc it at length, was it ?
Gates. Yes, it was.
Sir G. Wakeman. Where was that received?
In whose chamber ?
Oates. I cannot say that.
L. C. J. Was there any place mentioned in
the note where it should he received ?
Gates. No, my lord. 1 was then sick of the
stone, and was not at the payment of the
money.
L. C. J. But did the note mention any name ?
Received of any body ?
Gates. It was by order of Mr. Edward Cole-
man 5,000/. in part of this 15,000/. '
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Does h/e say this was in
the entry-book ?
Gates. Yes, it was.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Where was that kept ?
Gates. Semetimes at Wild- House, sometimes
Mr. Langhorn had the custody of it.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. I humbly beg of the
Court that Mr. Staley may be sent for.
JL. C. J. He only says he believes Mr. Staley
paid it.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Does he mention ne
place where it was received?
L. C. J. No.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Nor no person it was
paid to ?
JL C. J. No, be says, All I saw is this, that
in the entry-book sometimes kept at Wild-
House, sometimes by Mr. Langhorn, there was
written, ( This Da/ - (which was some day »
623] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chiles II. 1019.— Trial p/iKfr George Wakeman, [624
August) * wh proposed to sir G. W. 15,000/.
'and by him accepted/ and under that a line or
two more, which contained, ' Then received
' 5,000/. by order of Edward Coleman, being
' part of this 15,000/. Geo. Wakeniao.'
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Will jour lordship please
to give me leave to speak something now, I
may forget it hereafter.
Mr. Ward. We have not done yet.
Just. Pemberton. Sir George, they have not
yet* done with this witness for the king.
L. C. J. North. Take a Memorandum of it
in your paper.
Sir R. Sawyer. Pray, what do yon know
more of the prisoner at the bar, sir George
Wakeman ?
Oatet. This is all I can recollect at present.
Sir Rs Sanger. Do you know any thing of
any commission that he bad ?
Oatet. I did urge that he received a commis-
sion to be physician-general of the anny.
X. C. J. Did you see that commission ?
Oatet. Yes, I saw it in sir George Wake*.
.Man's hands.
- X. C. J. Had you seen it before ?
Oatet. Yes, I had.
X. C. J. Where did you see it in bis hand ?
Oatet. When he was writiug at Mr. Ashby's.
L.C.J. What note, was that lie left behind
him there ?
Oatcs. It was an, apothecary's bill, as I sup-
pose.
X. C. J. What month was it that you saw
the commission ?
Oates. It was in July.
Mr. Ward. What do you know of his being
-privy *° toe consult in April ?
Oates. I cannot speak any thing to that
X. C. J. Did he write bis name to that bill ?
. Oatet. I cannot, say that, my lord, it was
finished, but I- cannot be positive about the
name.
X. C. J. Bat you say, that you believe. that
the name of George Wakeman was (be. same
Jmnd with that, yon saw. when he writ the
apothecary's bill?
Oatet. It was, as. near as I can guesvthe
same with that, letter that was writ to Ashby,
.wherein he does direct him to take a pint of
milk in the morning, and a pint of milk in the
evening, and that he sheswT have an hundred
strokes, at tha Bath > And this hand was the
e with that of the apothecary's bill.
X. C. J. You never jsaw sir George Walter
write in .your life, did .you ?
Oatet. I saw him in. a writing posture, and I
i^taw him lay by the pen.
X. C. J. But you did not see him write ?
Gaiet: No, my lord ; but the gentleman that
sat by him was lame of both his hands and could
not write: And I saw him lay hy tbepen, and
^wheaha was gone away the ink was not dry.
I*. CJ Yon speak of that only to shew the
is* of the hand.
ttfiQeo. Wakeman. tfHave you not said that
do.not know my hand ?
iOaUtk I have told the Court before how far
I have known your handr I saw a letter, that
I bay was signed and subscribed George Wake-
man, and that was the same hand that was to
the receipt, and to the apothecary's bill.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Have you not said posi-
tively tbat you do not know k, and is not tbat
matter on record ?
Oatet. I did see a letter subscribed George
Wakeman, it is a fine genteel hand, and after I
saw him in a writing posture, I saw him lay by
the pen, the ink and paper was wet ; I did not
indeed see him write, but there was nobody in
the room that could write, or in a writiog pos-
ture but he, for the other gentleman was lame
of both bands.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. But I pray give a posi-
tive answer to what I ask you ; have yon not
said you do not know my hand ?
, Oatet. I do not remember I have said so.
Just. Pemberton. But he says now he believes
that hand that writ the letter to Ashby, and
the bill that he saw green, when nobody was
by tbat could write but you, were the same.
Sir G. Wakeman. Have not you said, before
the king and council, that you never saw me in
all vour life, and that you did not know me?
Oatet. My lord, you may be pleased to know,
when I saw sir George Wakeman at the coun-
cil I had been up two nights together, and the
king was willing once to excuse me from staying
any further examination, and being so ill and
indisposed for want of rest, in respect both of
my intellectuals, and every thing else, I might
not charge him so home ; but now I have a
proper light whereby I may see a man's face, I
can say more to him.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. This, is just Coleman's
Case, the light was in your eyes.
Oatet. This is the same gentleman : I desire
he may propose bis questions to the Court.
X. C. J. This is his question, whether you
did say before the king and council, you did not
know sir George Wakeman ?
Oatet. I do not remember whether I did or
did not. I saw one called sir G. Wakeman,
and this is that man ; but 1 will not say, this
was the man that was before the council when
I was there.
Just. Pemberton. Did you see the commis-
sion in this man's band ?
Oatet. Yes, I did.
X. C. J. Did you know this gentlemau he-
fore he was at the council ?
Oaten. I saw this gentleman with Mr. Ashby,
and be cannot deny it.
Sir G. Wakeman. Cannot deny it! Yes.
I hope you will be able to prove it. You said
you never saw me .in your life, before you
saw me at the Council.
X. C. J. Did you ever see him more than
once ?
Oatet. Yes, twice in Mr. Ashby's chamber.
X. C. J. What, two several days*
Oatet. Yes, two several days.
J ust. Pemberton. W here was it that yon saw
him when the writing you say was green
that he lea behind him ?
(35] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \C11>.—and other ty for High Trtaum. [62ft
Oatet. It was at Mr. Asbby*s chamber.
£. C. J. You never saw him before that,
did you?
Oatet. No.
L. C. J. How often after f
Oatet. But once after that.
X. C. J. Was that at the council ?
Oatti. No.
X. C. J. Look you what he says, be never
saw you but twice before be saw you at the
' Council.
Oatet, I saw you when the 10,000/. was
proposed to you.
. Sir G. Wakeman. Where was that ?
Oattt. At Wild-House.
Sir G. Wakeman. Did Mr. Ashby lie there?
Oate$, He did lie there, because the pro-
vincial was beyond sea, and be came up to
London in order to go to the bath.
Sir G. Wakeman. What day was that propo-
sal made to me ?
Oatti. It was before Mr. Ashby went to the
Bath.
Sir G. Wakeman. In what month ?
Oatti. In the month of July.
Sir G. Wakeman. By whom f By Mr. Ashby ?
Oatti. Yes.
. Sir G. Wahtman. In the presence of whom?
Oatti. Father Harcourt, Father Ireland,
aad Father Fenwick.
Sir G. Wakeman. You will be sure to name
those that can be neither witnesses for me nor
against me.
X. C. J. Who can help that ?
Oatti. I reckon up such as you did keep com-
pany with.
JL. C. J. Do you know when Mr. Ashby
went to the bath?
Oata. The latter end of July, or the be-
ginning of August, as I remember. And this
was before be went : he stayed but fourteen or
sixteen days, as I remember, in town.
X. C. J. He says he saw you but twice, once
when you writ that note, and the second time
when the proposal was made to you.
Sir G. Wakeman. And you know all these
things, at that time when 1 was examined be-
fore the king and council ? Turn this way and
answer me.
Oata. J am not bound to answer that ques-
tion.
X. C. J. But you must answer his questions,
if they be lawful.
Sir^O. Wakeman. I say, I ask him, whether
be knew all these things before that time I was
examined before the king and council ?
X. C. J. That must needs be, for mil these
things were done before.
Sir G. Wahtman. Then I ask him this ques-
tion, why did you say before the eing and coun-
cil, that you knew nothing of me, but concern-
ing' one letter that was writ from Mr.
Ashby to Mr. Fenwick ? I shall prove this upon
you ; but, my lord, let me observe this, can any
one believe, that if such evidence had been
(pven in to the king and council* against roe,
as he now speaks of, that I should not hare
VUU VII.
been immediately taken into custody, but that
I should bare my liberty so long as 1 had ?
X. C. J. I will tell you, Sir George, you will
do very well and properly to call up your wit-
nesses by and by, when you come to make your
defence, and tu prove what he said at the
council- table. Pray, Dr. Oates, what was the
reason you did not git e the same evidence then
you do now ?
Oates. I can, by und by, give an answer to
it, when it is proved by him what I did say.
As to Mr. Corker, I say this, he had a patent
from the See of Rome, to be bishop of London,
and Mr. Corker was privy and consented to a
proposal that was made by Langhorn to the
Benedictine monks, whereof he is one. And
these Benedictine monks did contribute 6,000/.
to the society of the Jesuits, in order to be
carrying on of this design. And Mr. Corker,
though he did deny before some justices of
the peace, that he did go out of the kingdom,
yet he did go over to Lampspring in Germany,
and staid there some short time, end he did
write a letter, but whether it was dated from
Lampspring in Germany, or no, I cannot tell,,
because there was only the date of the month,
but not of the place from whence it came, but
the latter end of August, it was* and therein he
wrote, that be did consent to the proposal, for
the raising of the said 6,000/. for he is president
of the Benedictine monks, and therefore it was
necessary that he should give the suffrage, and
he bad been with Father Le Chaise and the
English monks in Paris, and had given an ac-
count what prospect of affairs he had in Eng-
land, and' how the design went on.
L. C. J. Was tins in a letter ?
Oatti. Yes„itwas.
X. C. J. To whom was that letter directed ?
Oatet. It was directed either to Father
Hitchcot, or to- father Howard, then in Lon-
don.
X. C. J. You saw the lettev ?
Oatet. Yes, I saw the letter.
X. C. J. Were you acquainted with his
hand writing?
Oatet. I will shew you how far I might be.
acquainted with hi* band. My Lord, this gen-
tleman, as I think, went away in July, as near
as I can remember, I will not be positive in the
time be went over ; but in the month of June
I saw this gentleman with Mr. Fenwick, end he
had given him an account either of some friend
or kinsman of his at St. Omers, that had not
had his pension paid, and Mr. Corker did give
a note under his haml, to Mr. Fenwick, where
to take up so much money, and the money was
to be received of Mr. Langhorn.
X. C. /. How much was that money ?
Oatti. It was about 20 or 85/. and he sub-
scribed his name to it, James Corker ; for that
is his name, though he is indicted, I know not
how, by the name of 'Anthony : And I have a-
summons to give evidence against Anthony
Corker.
X. C. J. He is indicted by the name of James. '
Oatet. And then I saw his name to an ess*
as
6*t] STATE TRIALS, 51 Chaeles II. 1019.— .Trial tf Sir George Wakemern, [6S&
miration thai was taken by sir Charles Har-
fcord, and some other justices that were of the
House of Commons that took the examination
Of this Corker, and it was the very same hand
he usually writ, only It was not so fair, nor so
well, in his examination . This is that I say
against Mr. Corker.
Sir Rob. Sawyer. .Shew him that hand there :
Pray, Sir, look upon it, [Then a paper was
ibewn to blm.1
• Oates. This is the same hand.
Corker. Is that a copy of my examination
before the j ustices ?
L. C. J. It is the original.
Corker. I am glad it is there.
Z. C. J. Shew it the prisoner.
Gates. Mr. Corker did use to bestow the
queen's charity
L. C. J. Is that your hand ?
Corker. Yes my lord.
L. C. S. Shew him the other.
Corker. These are both my hand, as far as I
can see.
Oates. That note he gave to Fen wick, for
the receiving this money, was the same hand
with this, and so was the letter that came, as
„ we. suppose, from Lampspring in Germany ;
bat I cannot say it did so, wherein he did give
consent to the raising and giving this 0000/. for
the carrying on of the design.
Sir Kob. Sawyer. What was that you bad
more recollected?
Oates. He did dispose of the queen's charity
(as it was so called) bat Mr. Corker did say*
it was to carry on the design ; and tbis he did
say in the month of June, when he was with
Mr. Fenwick. Now, what he meant by that
e)e»ign, Heave to the jury to judge, only some
parcels he had distributed, $ or 3s. to some and
40s. to another, to some more, to others less :
But a great part of it he did use for the carry-
ing on of this design, and he said the queen bad
given him orders'so to do.
Sir Rob. Sawyer. 'What do you know of his
N being privy to the consult of the 24th of April?
Oates. He did know of it, and I will tell
your lordship how I know be knew of it. . He
did except against Pickering being chosen.
L. C. J. To do what ?
Oates. To do that wicked thing to kilt the
king, fur, said he, Pickering is commonly at-
tendant upon the altar, and ne thought it not
so convenient, that he should be employed
about that business, because he might miss an
opportunity, by being at high mass, 'whereas
another, a lay-man, might do it.
Sir Robert Sawyer. W«re you present when
the exception was made?
Oates. Yes, it was when the order was given
' about the money, to Fenwick.
X. C. /. At whose house was it?
Oates. At the Benedictine convent in the
Savoy.
Sir Rob. Sawyer. Was it expressed at that
tin^e what Pickering was to do ?
Oates. His being privy to the consult in April,
I had it only from his own mouth, for he won-
dered that the Jesuits should employ Pickering
hi that business, when the? might have a lay-
man, who was more fit; be being a religioas-
man, and attending upon the altar, it was not
so convenient.
L. C. J. Where was that 6,000/. to be raised f
Oates. Out of the Benedictines estates.
L. C. J. Was he their president ?
Oates. Yes, he was.
Just. Ellys. Dr. Oates, was he against the
thing, the doing of it at all, or against Picker*
tag's doing of it only ?
Oates. He was only against Pickering's do*
ing of it. He would have had a lay-man em-
ployed in it.
Just. Pemberion. That is plain, for lie did
?[ive consent that the 6,000/. should be raised
or the carrying on the whole design.
Sir R. Sawyer. Do you know any thing be*
sides that letter you have mentioned, which he
writ to give his consent ?
Oates. Nothing, but that because he had
given his consent, the money was paid.
L. C. J. Do you know it was afterwards
paid?
Oates. I believe that the money was paid,
for our Fathers said that they had received it.
Recorder. What say you to the rest of the
prisoners ?
Oates. Mr. Marshal I do charge with the
same, that is, that he was actually present at
the Benedictine convent, when the 6,000/. was
agreed to be contributed, but it was not to be
paid till they had an answer from Mr. Corker.
Sir R. Sawyer. That letter yon speak of,
was an answer to it, I suppose?
Oates. Yes, my lord, it was so.
Sir R. Sawyer. What do you know of the
consult, was he privy to that ?
Oates. I will not be positive at to Mr. Mar*
shal's being privy to the consult, I know that
be was privy to Pickering's undertaking to kill
a a • ™
the king.
Sir it. Sawyer. How do you know that ?
Oates. Because he was of Corker's opinion
that they had hetter take a lay-man.
Recorder. What say you toRumleyt
Oates. He is a Benedictine monk, or at least-
wise a lay- brother. And he was privy to this
consalt, in which the 6,000/. was agreed to be
paid and given, and I do judge he did consent
to it, for he did pray God that it might have
good success, and that the catholic cause might
once agaiii flourish in England.
L. C. J. North: He was there then, was be
not?
Oates. Yes, he was there, but only as a ser-
vant, a lay-brother of that order.
L. C. J. North. Why, is be professed ?
Oates. Yes, I think he is.
L. C. J. North. What time was this, Mr.
Oates?
Oates. In August.
L. C. J. North. Was it the former part of
August ?
Oates. I cannot be positive, but I think it
was*
M9j STATE TtttALS, 51 Cffajtus II. 1079 — and others,/* High Treason. [490
Sir JJ. Sealer. Can you any any thing more
against the rest of the prisoners ?
Oil**. I do net recollect any thing more, at
present.
Mr. fFortf. Now, gentlemen, if you please to
ajk him any questions, you may.
Burnley. Were you there present ?
tint*. Yes, I was.
Rmwdey. Was it in the month of August ?
Oates. Yet, it was.
Sir R. Sawyer. Will any of you ask him any
jiwre questions?
Corker, He says I went in June to Lamp-
spring, now I would ask Mr. Gates where Lamp-
spring is?
Oates* We suppose it tol>e in Germany.
Corker. It is almost at the furthest end of
Westphalia, and he says, that being there, I
had «iifrCourse with la Chaise, and the English
monks at Paris, about this design, I would fain
make sense of this, if I could.
Oates. To satisfy Mr. Corker, I cannot say
that he went to Lampspring, but only as he
•aid himself; and they used to say they go to
one place, when they go to another : as Ireland
said he went to St. Omers when he went into
fcesWdshire.
Corker* Where, and when, did I give my
consent to the design about murdering of the
king, for you named the 94th of April ?
Oases. This is that I say to the court, that
the privity that Mr. Corker had of t^e consult
of the 84tb of April, was that I had out of his
own mouth, in which be .did declare, that lie
did think the Jesuits lied not done well to make
choice of one of their order to do that business,
since be was to attend upon the altar, but it
would have been well if they had made choice
•f some other layman to match Grove.
Gorier. Yon tell me, I had a patent to be
bishop of London.
Oates. I saw it in your own hand.
Corker. Who gave me that patent ?
Oates. I did not enquire into that.
Corker. Did you hear me say, I accepted
of it, and should be bishop of London r
Gates. I heard you say this, you hoped it
would not be long ere you should exercise your
episcopal function [At which the people
itngbed.] I now recollect something more. I
Mmember Mr. Marshal was present when Fa*
ther Hitchcot and Father Howard, and Conyers
me Benedictine monk, were there present,
about the lajing of a wsger, whether, or no,
the kins; should eat any more Christmas pies,
and this Benedictine monk, Conyers, did lay
he should not. and another gentleman laid
that be would, and tjiis gentleman, Marshal,
did go halves with Conyers, that he would
not.
Marshal. I desire you would tell my lords
the judges bow long you have known me, and
where you have seen me.
Oates. I have seen this gentleman several
times, but had never any familiarity with him,
hat I have seen him officiate at the altar.
Mmshak How long have yon known me?
Oates. First and last, two years; but the
first time that I knew von, to hear you speak,
was when Father Hitchcot and the rest wcf •
there.
Marshal. He soys he hath known me these
two years and yet never spake to me.
Gates. 1 knew bim by sight.
Marshal. He looked upon me as a priest, ft
seems, he knew me to be engaged in this busi-
ness, as he says, I wonder he should never con-
verse with me.
Oates. There are a great many that I know
by sight, whom I never did converse with.
X. C. J. What do you infer from that? It
may be, you know some of the bench by sight,
| that you never spoke to before, nor they to
jou.
Marshal. What day of the month was this
consult ? — Oates. It was in August.
Marshal. But what day of August ?
Oates. It is a great privilege that I tell you
the month. It was between the first and the
middle of August.
X. C. J. He tells yon it was the former part,
but it lies in his breast* whether be wiU or no,
to tell you the exact day.
Marshal. My lord, it is impossible to make
a defence, if circumstances of time and plane
be not mentioned.
X. C. J. It is fit he should answer, if be can
tell the time, but if he cannot, we cannot
help it.
Marshal. But if he does not name the very
day he may name the place.
X. C. J. He does name the place, it was at
the Benedictine convent.
Marshal. W by cannot he as well remember
the day ?
Oates. If they will tell me when the feast of
the Assumption is, which i» a feast of their mak-
ing, then*! will give them a pretty near account
when it was.
Marshal. The feast of the Assumption is the
15th of August.
Oates. My lord, it was either the day before
or the day after.
Marshal. Now he bath avouched this pesi*
tively.
Oates. Nay, I will not be positive.
Marshal But you were so,- that it was the
day before, or the dsy after.
Oates. I appeal U> the judges of the court.
X. C. J. If be will say it, let him, but peo-
ple are not to be snapped up thus: Mr. Oates,
you a|e upon your oath, and pray answer
the question that is asked by the prisoner as
positively as you can. If yon can, .say so, if
you cannot, say so. , ■ ' '
Oates. My lord, I do believe verily it was-
either the day before, or the day. after.
X. C. J. Are you sure it was ?
Gates'. My lord, 1 do v rily believe it.
Marshal, But what accusation is it of, a thief ,
or a murderer upon the highway, unless you tell
the time eaactly.
L. C. J. Yen see he will net answer petit
tively..
mi) STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles 1L 1679.— Trial of Sir George Wakemm, [6»
Marshal. Mr. Oates, was I at any other
consult besides this one?
Oates. Yes, vou were, upon the 91st day of
August, if it fell upon a Wednesday.
Marshal. What matter is it what day it fell
on.
Oates. If it were a Wednesday, then the
Hist of August you were at a consult, when we
had letters from archbishop Talbot, wherein
we had an account of the state of Ireland, how
the Irish affairs did stand, but it did not pay
an Irish letter's price, and therefore I suppose
it came from this side of the water, though it
was directed as if it came from Dublin. And
this was read there, and there was in it a
prayer, that a commission might be sent down,
and there were some Jesuits and some Bene-
dictines, amongst whom Marshal was one, and
be did' give bis consent that the commission
should be sent down.
X. C. X What commissions were they ?
Oates, For officers in the army that was to
be raised there.
Marshal. Where was that letter read ?
Gates. At the Benedictine convent.
Marshal. And this, you say, was the 21st of
August ?
* L. C. X And that was on a Wednesday, as
the Almanack says.
Oates. There he agreed to send the commis-
sions into Ireland for the appointing of officers,
and did consent to the poisoning of the duke of
Ormond.
Rumley. When was Pickering taken ?
Oates. He was taken the night before, or
Michaelmas-day in the morning.
Rumley. Were not you there, Mr. Oates?
Oates. Yes, I was.
L. C. X Were you at all the consults?
Oates. No, I was sick, when sir George
Wakeman was offered the 15,000/. and receiv-
ed the live.
X. C. X What consults were you at ?
Oates. I will answer to those consults that
these persons are affected in ; there was one
consult about.the beginning or middle of August,
there was another the 91st of August, and then
there was another consult wherein the 5,000/.
was paid, or ordered to be paid, to Wakeman,
ano* I was not there.
Rumley. Who was the messenger that took
Pickering ?
Oates. I do not know him.
L. C. J. Was the consult of sir George
Wakeman after the 91st of August ?
Oates. No, my lord.
Mr. Ward. Will you ask him any more ques-
tions ?
Oates. My lord, I desire I may have leave
to retire, because I am not well.
X. C. X You must stay, Dr. Oates, till after
their defence be over.
Recorder. If you desire to have any re-
freshment, you shall have it got for you.
Sir R. Sawyer. Then we call Mr. Bed low
next, (Who stood up.] Pray, Sir, speak your
knowledge concerning the prisoners at the bar.
Bedlow. My lord, before I speak any thing
to the prisoners, I desire there may be a- dif
ference between the clerks of the counsel and
me decided, they have mistaken a word in my
evidence, and put in New-Market, for Windsor.
X. C. X What does that signify to the pre-
sent business?
Bedlow. I desire it may not be brought
against roe in my tvideoce.
X. C. J. Then it is only for a caution before-
hand.
Bedlow. The latter part of the last summer,
it was, I think, abqut the beginning of August,
sir George Wakeman was at Harcourt's cham-
ber, f myself was there first, and when he cam*
in, he fetched a turn or two about the room,
seeming angry and discontented, and asked
Harcourt if he had any thing for him ? Then
Harcourt asked bim, how he did proceed?
Said he, I do not know whether I shall or no ;
for what reason am I drilled on, in such a
concern as this ? Says Mr. Harcourt, Stay, sir
George, you need not be so hasty as to blame
us, for we are better provided for jou than
you think for. With that Harcourt went to hit
cabiuet, and took out' ^we or six papers, and
brought a small bill, and asked sir George
Wakeman ; said he, sir George, bow are you
provided ? Said sir George, f have been ready
long since, but you have not been so punctual
with me : but what have you there ? Said Har-
court, I have a bill of 2,000/. From whom ?
said sir G. Wakeman. Then he named a gen-
tleman, but I do not know him, nor cannot
remember him. And, said he, I came now*
from Whitehall, and received it from such an
one, which he said was by the Queen's order,
and that he had it from her. This bill is
charged upon such a goldsmith, and named
him, he dwelt somewhere, about St. Dunsten's
church, but I cannot remember his name, I
will tell you by and by why I think he dwelt
there. As soon as sir George had read it, It is
well, said be, if it be accepted, I find more en-
couragement from my good lady and mistress,
than from any of you all. They had some little
more discourse, aud sir George asked of Har-
court, who I was ? Said he, it is a friend that
hath been long engaged in our business, and
is to do the nest great work to yours, well,
said sir George, I will go and see if the bill be
accepted, and you shall hear of me to night ;
and accordingly he did go. I did not stav bat
a very little time after him, and therefore I
collect he could not go far to get the bill ac-
cepted ; for I did cross Lincoln's- Inn- Fields,
and came down a lane by Temple- Bar, and be-
tween the QueenVHead and Cbancery-Lnn*
end I met with sir George Wakeman : said I,
Have you been with your bill already, and is A
accepted ? Yes, said he, it is accepted. And
when is it to be paid ? I am to go, said be, in
the afternoon, to receive it.
X. C.J. Whosaidso?
Bedlow. Sir George Wakeman.
X. C. X To whom ?
Bedlow, To me. And seeing of him return
G3i] STATE TRIAU5, 51 Cham.es H. \47&— and «ha% for Bigh Treaxm. [<$*
from the city-ward again, I concluded it was
not far off, and spoke to him as I tell you. Sir
George and I were not very well acquainted,
bat I had koown him Ate years, and upon that
character Mr. Harcooit had given of me, I
thought I might makr ' -M with him, and when
I asked him and accosteu u.ui with that short
question, Is your bill accepted ? he made me
answer it was, and he was to receive it in the
afternoon, and thought it not fit to dispute any
thing with me.
X.- C. J. You do not know what goldsmith
it was upon?
Bedlam. It must be one that lives about St:
Dunstan's church, or Fleet-Street, for he could
not go far in that time.
X. C. J. Where was Harcoort's chamber ?
Bedlow. In Duke-street, next the arch. Now
I asked Harcourt afterwards, whether this was
vart of the 15,000/. ? Said he, We have not ad-
justed that matter yet, but he received this
only as a present supply. And be did in a
short time after receive as much as made it up
5,000/. But I asked, whether it were for the
old business? Yes, said he, it is for the same
design, ' if we should mil of it by other means.
(And so was the discourse to sir George Wake-
man) if we should mil of it at Windsor, then
this way is to be taken ; and if this fail too, we
will make sure of it at New-market.
X. C. /. What do you know of the other
prisoner* ?
Bedlam. Mr. Corker I have seen with Kaines
and Le Fevre, but never in their company but
•ace, where being in the great court aj Somer-
set-House, we walked out of the court into the
piazza, and there we were speaking of our bu-
siness. Kaines was saying to me, you brought
such a letter, such a time, for me, and I have
lost it 5 I do not know what to do for it. Said
I, Do you remember the contents of it? Yes,
said be, I do. Said I, You should take such
letters in such a character as none could read
but yourself, and then burn the letters them-
selves. Said be, I hope it will not come to
light, for none wilt meddle with my papers, that
can do me any hurt. I heard nothing from
Mr. Corker, that did relate positively to the
murder of the king, but Corker and Le Fevre
were speaking in general, about the business,
what letters tfcey had received from beyond sea
how to manage their affairs.
X. C. J. About what matter ?,
Bedlow. About the Plot, what letters they
had received from beyond sea, and how for-
ward tbey were in therr proceedings here.
Corker. What did we talk about ?
X. C. J. What was it about still ?
Bedlow. It was about raising the army, and
what interest he -had with the people. • It was
in general, I Come not to particulars.
Corker. Did Kaines, or I, or any of us, name
any such thing as plot, design, or the like ?
Bedlow. We were discoursing ot the busi-
ness in general, I dotiot take upon me to speak
to particulars.
L.C.J. What was it about, say your
Bedlow. About raising an army, what interest
he had in the people, who had been sent int6
the country, what thev iiad done, and the like.
Corker. Did you bear any word of killing,
army, or design ?
Bedlow. Yes, everyone of those words were
used. I do not take upon me to tell how the
words were placed.
Mr. Ward. What say you to the rest?
X. C. J. When was tms discourse ?
Bedlow.* July was twelvemonth. '
Mr. Ward. What say you to Mr. Marshal ?
Bedlow. Mr. Marshal hath reason to know
me, and I suppose wfll not pretend to the conJ
trary, for he cannot but remember that I knew
him when I went to the Gatehouse. He hath
carried several letters that have been brought
from beyond sea, and others that have been
writ in England, into the country, and I have*
been with him in Latham's chamber in the
Savoy and Somerset-house, st» long since as
Latham was one of the 'queen's monks. He
hath carried the same fetters that I have
brought from beyond the sea, three or four or
more at a time, to communicate to the country
gentlemen of the Catholic party, that were as-
sistants to us, particularly to sir Francis Rat-
cliffe and others, I am sure be hath carried, and
he knew what was the effect of those letters,
and what were the answers to them ; he
read them as well as any of them, for I think
he is of the same order, to the best of my
knowledge, though I never saw him in his habit.
X. C. J. What was the import of the letters?
Bedlow. I never brought auy one letter to
the ' religious Fathers (and I have brought a
great many) but what did import what 1 have
now given in evidence, and did relate to tbe
full substance of what I say now:
Sir R. Sawyer. Can you mention the par-
ticulars of any one letter that be knew tbe con-
tents of?
fiedlow. I do mention one which I very
well remember, and that was to sir F. Radcliff,
and I remember it though it be long since, be-
cause I was well acquainted with sir F. Rad-
ciifTsson, and I brought commendations from
his son to England.
Sir R. Sawyer. Well, sir, what was the con*
tents of that letter?
Bedlow. It was a copy of the letter from La
Cbaise'in Paris to the monks and Jesuits in
England, in answer to the first letters that I
brought over to tliem relating to tbe manage-
ment of tbe design.
X. C. J. Was it mentioned in that letter
what the design was ?
Bedlow. In chat which I carried over to La
Chaise, it was, that all things were in readi-
ness and the time now drawing near, for they
did hope in a year or two, or in a little time
they should be in a capacity to put this in prac-
tice, and they did not question but to subvert the
oppression and tyranny the Catholics were under
in England.
Sir R. Sawyer. Was Mr. Marshal acquainted
with the contents ?
035] STATE TRIALS, 31 CharIb* II.
Bedlam. He was one of them that used to
examine the answers. It was written to him
partly, for if he were not a member of their or-
der, as I think be is, he was one of the club and
consult that saw the contents of all letters. I
have not seen hire so often, as I have done the
others, but I believe he hath been there as
often, but he hath received to my remember-
ance twice letters to communicate into the
country concerning the subversion of the go-
vernment, and the introducing of popery.
Mr. Ward. What say you to Mr. Rumley ?
Bedlow. I cannot be positive as to my
own knowledge, but what Mr. Harcourthas
said. .
L. C.J.( Do you know any thing of your own
knowledge by him ?
Bedlam, 1 have been told he bath commu-
nicated letters of this business into the country.
And that he was one employed when aBy secret
ktters were sent.
L C. J. So you cannot declare upon your
oath, titat you know that Mr. Rumley knew
the contents of any letters relating to the plot?
Bedlow. No, my lord, I . do not. I have a
good remembrance of faces, but I do not re-
member his.
Sir G. Wakeman. What day was it that I had
the discourse with Harcourt, and received the
bill from him as you say ?
Bedlow. You ask me a question as if I were
in the state i was formerly in, when I might
have an indulgence for telling a lie. No, I
have oo delight to damn my soul, to make you
a martyr ; but to satisfy you as well as I can
I say, it was the beginning of August, or part of
the beginning. I do not speak to a day.
Sir G. Wakeman. How 4o you know it was a
bill of exchange for this money ?
Bedlow. You did read it aloud.
Sir G. Wakeman. Had I any acquaintance
with you ?
Bedlow. No, but Mr. Harcourt told you who
I was.
Sir G. Wakeman. And would I upon the first
sight of a man discover to him what would en*
danger my life ?
Bedlow. Ay, and a hundred times more, if
Mr. Harcourt did but tell you I was his confi-
dent.
X. C. J. What were the contents of that
note ?
Bedlam. It was directed to a goldsmith,
whose name I tell you I cannot remember.
Sir G. Wakeinan. You are good at remem-
-bering some sir-names, why can't yon remem-
ber this name as well ?
Bedlow. I can remember names that do re-
late to any business, but only bearing this name
by the by, I cannot remember k, for I did not
then think it of such consequence*
s&ir G. Wukrma*. Yon do aot know me ?
Bedim. Yes, I do.
Sir G. Wakeman. I call God to witness I
neversaw you before in my life, that I know of.
You have a very remarkable fare, and if a man
had once seen you be mutt knew yon again.
\m.— Trial 0/ Sir George Wdcema*, (630
L. C. J. Who subscribed that note ?
■Bedlow. I don't know, it was one of the
queen's gentlemen that Harcourt had it from.
And whereas sir George Wakeman says be dona
not know me, I did take physic of bun at the
Bath.
Sir G. Wakeman. When was I at the Bath?
Bedlow, It was some years since.
Sjr G. Wakeman. I never was there hot
once, and that was a year and a half ago.
Bedlow. No, sir, it is more than that, for
you were there when tbe queen was there.
L. C. J. How long is it ago that you were *
there/ Sir George ?
SirG. Wakeman. It was about two yean
ago.
Bedlow. It is three years this summer.
i. C. J. Then that is well enough ; for
that is some years since.
Bedlow. I had acquaintance enough with
him while he was there.
Sir G. Wakeman. I say this, my lord, if I had
been acquainted with Mr. Bedlow, I should
have known him to be a great rogue, which ia
but what he hath said of himself ; and then I
should not have thought it fit to nave trusted
such an one with such a great secret as this.
L. C. J. It may be he calls himself treat
rogue for that which you would have applaud-
ed him for, and canonized him too. It may
be he thinks he was a rogue for going so far as
he did ; but perhaps ypu are of another opi-
nion.
Bedlow. My lord, I could not count myself
an honest man, that had consented to tbe death
of the king and sir Edmuodbury Godfrey.
SirG. Wakeman. But though he gives yon
an account of such a bill delivered to me, yet
neither he tells yon the time, nor mentions tbe
man upon whom it was drawn ; here are nil
tbe marks of falsbood that can possibly he.
L- C. J. No, he does not mention the man
upon whom it was drawn, nor from whom ;
nor can he say that ever yoa received it ; but
you were to receive it.
Sir G. Wakeman. How came be to omit
that ? but because I should have no plea for
myself when I came to be accused of it.
Bedlam. Pray, sir George, do not proas mn
to say more than I know. I do tell yon alL
that I can say of myself.
Mr. Recorder. Have yon any mow questions
to ask him ?
Manhal. I ask you this quest ion; First}
Why will you damn your soul to send me to
Heaven? Lay your hand upon your heart, and
in the presence of God declare whether ever
you saw me in your life, before yon came to
the Gatehouse? Whether ever yon saw me in
any part of the world whatsoever? And whereon,
yoa say now that I owned that I knew yon
there; it was so far from it, that all the com-
pany that were there, will my that you did
not know me, and declared yourself n stranger
tome.
Bedlam. No, sir, pardon me; yen did not.
deny but that yon had teen my nine.
637] STATE TRIALS, Si Cmakles II. 1679 — and others, for High Treusan. [086
Marshal. No, all tbe company that were
there will say that you owned yourself a stranger
to roe; you told me, Mr. Marshal, he not
afraid ; I will do you no hurt. But Mr. Bed-
low, where have you seen me ?
Bedlow. At the Benedictine Convent in the
Savoy. And, my lord, the first word that I
said, when I saw him, was, that this man's
name is Marshal, and he carried sueh and such
letters into the country, and sir William Waller
can testify the same : (who standing upon the
bench, was sworn.)
Mr. Recorder. Mr. Marshal, vou had best
to hearken to what sir William Waller says.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, I went to the pri-
son to see Mr. Marshal, and Mr. Bedlow was
there with me ; Mr. Bedlow asked him if he1
did not know him, and called him by his name;
he declared be had seen him before, but said
he did not know him.
L. C. J. Did he call him by bis name as if
he knew him f
Sir W. Waller. Yes, my lord, he did.
L. C. J. Look you, Mr. Marshal, he says
that you yourself owned that you had seen him
before, though you were not of his ac-
quaintance.
Marshal What sir William Waller says I
mat oppose, though I am extremely sorry so
to do. Sir William, you may please to re-
member that you caiug to me after Mr. Bed-
row was gone.
Sir W. Waller. No, I was there with you
before he came in. .
Marshal. I beiiere those of the Gatehouse
do remember that I spoke with Mr. Bedlow in
private in an interior room ; what you spoke
was in the open hall there. You asked me
whether Mr. Bedlow had not been there ? I
told you, yes ; that was in the public place ;
whereas Mr. Bedlow talked with me only in a
private room.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, what I have said is
apon my oath, and it is nothing but the truth.
Marshal. And I am upon my life, therefore
I am very sorry I inu*t for the truth sake, and
defence of my life, contradict what you say.
What your worship and I spoke was in the
public mom ; but what discourse Mr. Bedlow
and I had, was in another private room.
L.C J. Look you, sir William Waller, was
you 'there when Mr. Bedlow was with bim?
Sir W. Waller. I was, my lord.
L.C.J. Where?
Sir W. Waller. In the common room.
L. C J. What did he say concerning Mr.
Bedlow in the common Zoom?
Sir W. Waller. Mr. Bedlow called him by
hi» name, and. asked if he knew him? He said
be had seen his face, but did not know him.
L. C. J. Do you hear that, Mr. Marshal ?
Marshal . Truly, my lord, it goes against my
heart t'» speak any thing in opposition to what
atr-William Waller says, for I would not for all
die world reflect or say any thing that should
glance upon sir WHtiam Waller, as if he had
taken a false oath ; but all in the Gatehouse!
nay Mr. Bedlow himself knows, that he bad
discourse with me in a private room before sir
William Waller came.
L. C. J. Mr. Bedlow, speak yourself; waa
sir William Waller there when you came to the
Gatehouse ?
Bedlam. My lord, I had an order from the
council-board to gfr and see tbe prisoner, there
was nobody that told me bis name, nor that I
knew, knew it ; but I would not do it, I was so
cautions, but in the hearing and company of a
justice of the peace, and therefore I went away
before they had called him down, and. I went
to see if the House of Commons were sitting;
and when I came back, sir W. Waller was just
coming thither, and so I went in with him, for
I met him at the bottom of' tbe stairs. We
came into the common room, and there waa
Mr. Marshal with tj»e keeper, and 1 was in no
other room, but the common room. And sir*
Wm. Waller withdrew to the end of the room
while I asked hjm some questions ^ and pray
toili you please to ask sir W. Waller whether I
did not call bun by his name as soon as I saw
him?
Sir W. Walter. Yes, my lord, he did: He
asked him. if his name was not Marshal: and
whether he did not know him : and he said he
had seen his face, but had no acquaintance
with him.
Marshal. Were not you with me first in
that room which turns in on the right-hand
from the common room ?
Bedlow. I do not know any such room in
the Gatehouse.
Marshal. There were your guards, Mr.
Bedlow, and there were several others in tbe
Gatehouse ; they cannot but remember what
room I was brought into : They cannot possibly
but remember, that when sir William Waller
came to me, he asked me whether Mr. Bedlow
had been with me.
L. C. J. Look yon, gentlemen, they have
done, call what witnesses you will, and make
your defence as well as you can.
Marshal. My lord, I did not think or ima-
gine any such thing would be spoke of; or that
there would need any attestation for ir.
L. C. J. Look you, they have done ; we
will bear what your witnesses will say as long
as you will.
Marshal. My lord, Mr. Bddlow seemed a
perfect stranger to me when he came to the
Gatehouse; and to encourage me, told* me,
** Mr. Marshal," says [he, " do not fear, I wiH
do you no hurt at all : Did not you send,* said
he, " to such an one, to have Mr. Bedlow ques-
tioned about such and such things I" Which I
denied, and he did not seem by any word that
he spoke, to have seen me before in his life.
L. C. J. He told sir Wm. Waller your name
was Marslial, though you went by a wrong-
name, the name of Marsh.
Marshal. He might easily know my name,
by those that took me. '
L.C.J. But I tell you, you went by a wrong
name then, Marsh.
650] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1 67 P. —Trial of Sir George Wokcmtn, [G40
Marshal. My lord, I am called promiscuously
Marsh and Marshal. But Marshal is the name
I own.
X. C. J. And that is the name he knew you
by.
Marshal. I did not call myself Marsh when
1 was taken, but told mv true name.
Bedlow. My lord, I did not hear of any
name at all, but I said, This is Marshal, one
pf the Benedictine monks, as soon as I came in.
Marshal. Mr. Bedlow seemed to encou-
rage roe to hope, and bid me not fear ; said
he? You will have an honourable bench, and a
good Jury. And this, tbey that were there can
testify.
X. C. J. Call them : Call your witnesses.
. Marshal. But my lord, I did not know any
thing of this. And sir Wm. Waller's question
that he asked me was, If Mr. Bedlow was with
me?
X. C. J. You hear what be says.
Marshal. I am infinitely loth to say it, be-
cause he swears it ; and you well know, Mr,
Bedlow, you talked with your guards a-while,
and then turned at last to roe.
Bedlow. Yes, -I did talk with my guards,
but sir William Waller was in the room as well
as I.
X. C. /. By what aame were you com-
mitted ?
„ Marshal. I had letters about me, writ to
me by that name ? and I thought it my duty to
answer to that name that the letters did call me
X. C. J. Well, have you any witnesses ?
Marshal. This is a surprise, I did not know
of any such thing.
X. C. J. Have you auy witnesses, sir George
Wakeinan ?
Sir Geo. Wakeman. Yes, my lord, I have
several.
Marshal. But, Mr. Bedlow, can you say you
have seen me any where before you saw me at
the Gatehouse ?
Bt.dtow. Yes.
Marshal. Where?
. Bedlow. At the Savoy.
Marshal. And any where else ?
Bedlow. Yes, and at other places.
Marshal. Name one other place in the
whole world, and I will be contented to die.
Bedlow. I* will tell you why I cannot
name any other place positively. I did carry
the letters thither, there were the Consults
about them, and tbere I used to converse with
you most.
Marshal. Can you prove that ever you
were in the Savoy in your life ? And I will be
banged without auy more ro Jo. If you can
prove it either hy man, woman or child, I will
§o to the gallows, and will r.ot say one word
Bedlow. My lord, I have other witnesses,
*but at present L cannot produce tbem : There
are some Id Kent, tbey are some of tbem in one
country and some in another, I reserve tbem
for another time, but there is oath made of it
before the secret committees of the Lords and
Commons.
X. C J. How can he imagine that this*
should be put upon him : Therefore you may
well believe that be hath never a witness pre-
sent. It may be be hath none con prove he
ever was at Westminster-ball in bis life, for
who could imagine sucn a question should be.
put to him ?
Marshal. Having been tbere several timet,
I suppose he did not use to go alone ; it is im-
possible, but if they had been with him often
there, be might prove it ; if he say true, sure
some should attest it.
X. C. J. It is likely it should be so, but be
hath tbem not here.
Justice Pemberion. Why, do you think be
can bring witnesses for every act that he did in
his life ?
Marshal. If he have tbem not here, let him
have time to produce tbem.
X. C. J. . lie hath a witness in Kent, would
you have us keep up the Jury till be sends for
bis witness out of Kent.
Bedlow. There is my landlord, at whose
house I lay so long, can testify it.
Marshal. Who is that ?
Bedlow. Mr. Cott, a belt-maker in the New
Exchange. He hath gone often with me when
I have gone into the convent, and he. hath gone
round about, and his maid that used to carry
the portmautle, wherein I brought over the let-
ters from beyond sea.
X. C. J. Can you name any one body that
ever saw you in the Savoy ?
Bedlow. . I do name one ; and besides, my
lord, I lay in the Savoy half a year at one
WoooVorTs.
Marshal. Was that the place you saw me in ?
Bedlow. No, nobody came there but monks
and messengers.
Marshal. Was you there at the time when
the Savoy was searched ?
Bedlow. No, but I gave sir William Waller
directions to search in the most material places
of it.
Mr. Recorder. He says a material thing, if
he be in the right, that he did give directions
to sir William Waller to search in the most
material places of the Savoy. We will ask
that question of sir William whether be did or no.
Sir Wm. Waller. Both Mr. Oates and Mr/
Bedlow did give me directions to search in the
Savoy ; they told me of such a particular room
where Pickering lay, and where such a closet
was, and many other things; and it was by
their directions that I made the search.
X. C. J. Look you what sir William Waller
says ; be sayi that both Mr. Oates and Mr.
Bedlow did describe several rooms to him in the
Savoy, which it was impossible for tbem to
make, such a description, if they had not been
tbere before.
Mar thai. I desire to know when that de-
scription was given ?
Sir Wm. WulUr. Two or three days before
I took Mr. Marshal.
641] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chablrs II, 167D — and others, far High Treason. [642
Marshal. Mr. Oates made searches there
before.
X- C. J. But we speak of Bed tow now.
Marshal, But Mr. Bedlow might hare
knowledge from him aod others that were
there.
X. C. J. Do you think he must needs go of-
ficiously to inform Bed low of what he found,
upon an imagination that such a question
should fall oat hereon ? And if he received no
information, how then could he describe the
rooms without he knew them ?
Marshal. May there not be several houses
that I may give a description of, upon the hear-
say of others, though I were never in them my-
X. C. J. No, I know not very well how ;
and there is no reason you should imagine he
received information from Oates.
Marshal. My lord, there is reason enough,
Because both do combine in the same accusa-
tion.
Bedlow. My lord, I gave sir William Waller
directions to search in such a place, under such
a bench in Pickering's apartment, where he
found the gun that was to kill the king.
X. C. J. Well, call your witnesses, sir
George.
Sir G. Wakeman. Call Mr. Chapman.
X. C. J. Bat before they begin, sir Robert
Sawyer, we must do all the right to every one
we can. I do not find, by the strictest ob-
servation that I have made, that Mr. Bedlow,
who is the second witness, does say any great
thing, any material thing against any one of
them ; but as for Burnley he says nothing at
all. lie says, in effect, against sir George
Wakeman, no more than this, That he saw
Harcourt give him a note for 2,000/. which he
said was from the queen ; upon which sir
George said he was more beholden to his good
lady and mistress, than to any of them all.
The note he does not know who drew it, nor
upon whom it was drawn ; nor does he say
what it was for, more than what Harcourt told
him, which was in doubtful words, That it was
about the old business ; but Harcourt did not
tell htm this in the presence of sir George
Wakeman, but he spoke to Harcourt about it.
It is no more, than sir George Wakeman re-
ceived from Harcourt the bill of exchange, he
does not know upon whom, nor for what.
Sir Robert Sawyer. My lord, he says more,
with submission ; for he says this further, That
there was a discourse about the business ; and
he did tell you, That sir George Wakeman
should complain, that they had not done well
with hiia, and asked why he was drilled on ;
but when the note was produced, be said, My
matters are already prepared, but you are^not
so ready to perform your promises. Then said
Harcourt, ' If you are ready for -us, we are
ready for you : And told him, If he did not do
it, they would do it at New-market.'
X. C. J. What is all this ? Pray Mr. Bedlow
Staud op again : We are now in the case of
men's lives, and pray have a care thai you say
▼OL. VII.
no more than what is true upon any man what-
ever. I would be loth to keep out Popery by
that way they would bring it in, that is by blood
or violence : I would have all things go very
fair ; Pray what, upon your oath, was the first
part of sir G. Wakeman's discourse with Har^
court when they met ?
L. C. J. fforfh. Relate again your whole
knowledge concerning sir G. Wakeman, and
the Bill of Exchange, and the discourse after
it, because we are new upon the consideration
of it, what effect it will have upon him.
Bedlow. My lord, I was with Harcourt in
the chamber, and sir George Wakeman came
I io, and walked a turn or two about the room,
and seemed to be discontented. How do
you, sir George? said Harcourt. Says sir
George, For what am I drilled on thus in a
concern of this importance ? What is the mat*
ter with you sir George ? said Harcourt. Why,
is this a business to be slighted, said sir George,
as I am? For I have no performance of your
promises. Why, said Harcourt, what would
you have? we are ready for you. Then said
ne, I am ready for you. And then Harcourt
spoke merrily to him, Why are you so angry,
sir George? And upon that he goes to his
cabinet, and searching among his bags he found
a little note among them, and gave it to sir
George; saith he, There is a bill for you: I
have been to-day at Whitehall, and received
it by the queen's order, from such a gentle-
man : [whose name I cannot now remember ;1
and it is upon such a man for 2,000/. [but I
cannot remember the goldsmith's name neither.]
Well, said sir George, it is well somebody gives
me encouragement; I have more encourage-
ment from my good lady and mistress, than
from any of you. Nay, said Harcourt, for en-
couragement, that,you shall not want ; for the
rest shall be paid in due time.
Sir G. Wakeman. If the queen had given
me 9,000/. for the service I had done her, was
that any harm ? I have deserved it, I am sure,
for 9 years service.
Sir R. Sawyer. What other discourse had
they then ?
Bedlow. Said Harcourt, But sir George, this
must be well followed, and closely observed,
because so much depends upon it ; for if we
should miss to kill him at Windsor, or you miss
in your way, we will do it at New-market.
L. C. J. Who said so?
Bedlow. Harcourt.
X. C. /. Did Harcourt say, before sir
George's face, If we miss killing him at Wind- -
sor, and you miss your way, we will do it at
New-Market ?
Bedlow. Yes, he did say, If we miss killing
him at Windsor, and you miss in your way
(which we hope you will not) we will do it at
New-market.
X. C. J. He says now quite another thing
than he said before.
L. C. J. North. -\
Mr. Recorder, s No, he said the same before.
Sir R.Sawyer. J
2T
043] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial qf Sir George Wake man, [644
X. C. X What answer made sir George
Wakemau ?
Bed low. Sir G. Wakeman said, If I find you
ready, I will be ready in all things.
L. C. J. Was the word spoke of poisoning ?
Bed low. I ha\e spoken that already. * If
' we miss at Wiudsor, and you miss in your
4 way ;.' I do not remember whether the word
Poison was used ; but I knew by what Mr.
Harcourt and others had told me that Poison
was meant by it.
X. C. X Was all this one intire discourse ?
Bed low. Yes, my lord.
Then Sir George said privately to his fellow-
prisoners, * There is my business done/
Sir R. Sawyer. Here is a positive proof of
the receipt of money, which coupled with what
Oates says, and the discourse that Mr. Bedlow
tells you of, makes it out what it was for. This
was paid in part, was it uot, Sir ?
Bedlow. The answer that Mr. Harcourt gave
to sir George, was, That he should have the
rest in due time.
X. C X Bat what say you to Marshal, but
that he carried letters ?
Sir G. Wakeman, Was there nobody present
but you?
Bedlow. There was only Harcourt, you,
and I.
X. C. X But what say you to Corker ?,
Bedlow. Corker hath been in the company
with Le Faire, talking of news, what encou-
ragement they had by letters from beyond sea,
as those they had from France ; such and such
letters speak that they are in readiness of
money, men and arms ; and if we are ready
here, tbey are ready for us. This was usually
the discourse, and all upon ( the same design.
Now when we talked of this business, we did
not say the word Plot, but we all know what
was intended by it, that is the Plot.
X. C. X And what. said Corker?
Bedlow. lie said it was well. He did know
what readiness such and such persons were in,
when the design was likely to take effect. I
know not their names ; we were talking of seve-
ral persons several times, some in England, and
some beyond sea.
X. C. J. What can you say to Marshal ?
Bedlow. I do say, that be hath been to con-
sult of the return of letters which were the an-
swers to those I brought from beyond sea.
X. C. J* Did he know the contents of those
letters ?
Bedlow. Yes, my lord, he hath been in con-
sultation what answer to make again.
X C. X And was all this about the Plot ?
Bedlow. Yes, for the subverting the Protes-
tant religion, and bringing iii Popery, and rais-
ing of an army.
Marthal. (Jan you prove I knew any of those
gentlemen the letters were carried to ?
Bedlow. I name one. that was to sir Francis
Kadcljff.
Marthal. How does he know that I know
sir Francis Jtaocliff?
X. C.J. Well, sir George, will yeu call your
witnesses ?
Sir G. Wakeman. Call Mr. Chapman.
[Which was done.] My Lord, there was a let-
ter or note of directions from me to Mr. Ash by,
and it is affirmed by Mr. Oates, that in that
letter I should let Mr. Ashby know I did ap»
prove well of the proposals that were made to
me to poison the king, and that the queen'
would assist me in it ; and that in the same
letter there were directions given what be
should take, and how many strokes of the
pump he should make use of, and several other
things fit for a physician to direct his patient
in. Now, my lord, I will prove by this gentle-
man Mr. Chapman, who is Mayor of Bath,
that he received this very note from Mr. Ashby,
that he read it from the beginning to the end of
it ; that there was no word in it, or mention of
the king or queen in the whole letter, unless it
be of the king or queen's bath. And, my lord,
I think he hath a piece of this letter still, that
part that was the physical part he tore on, and
kept himself. Now it is none of my hand, I
never writ a letter to Ashby upon any occa-
sion whatsoever; and I will tell your lordship
how it came to pass I did not writer that letter;
I hope by a providence, for I nevrr but used to
write my physical directions with my own hand.
It happened that I came home late, and I was
very ill ; Ashby sent to me for his note, be-
cause he was to \o out of town the next morn-
ing ; being weary and indisposed, I laid me
down on the couch, and sent for my man, who
is an apothecary now, and is better able to write
such a letter ; I dictated the letter to him, all
my family, and all that were by, can testify the
same : he knows very well my hand, and hath
part of it to produce ; for when the queen was
there, I made use of him for my apothecary,
and those physical directions I sent down for
the bath, I sent always to him. He is a very
good witness as to my hand.
X. €. J. But you may speak of one letter,
and Mr. Oates of another.
Sir G. Wakeman. Why, did I write two
letters of directions ? what need that ? He says
he saw a letter with my name subscribed to it.
X.-C. X Yes,' it was so, and that you should
be assisted by the queen to poison the king ;
and being asked how he did know that was
your hand ? he said, I did not see him write,
but I saw him in the posture of writing; and
when he went away, there was left on the
table, and the ink was not dry, a physical
bill, which was the same hand with that the let-
ter wan.
Sir G. Wakeman. Ay, my lord, but be does
not call that a letter, but it was a physical bill,
and not a letter; so that there was bat one
letter.
X. C. X But there was a note of physical
directions in the letter.
Oafes. Thar letter was at lean half e sheet
of 4 side, close writ' en, wherein were those pes-
*.>ges M(at I mentioned ; but I cannot give eh
account of all contained in it; but this, my lord, I
C45J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679— and others, for High Treason. [G'lG
remember, that be should take a pint of milk in
the morning, and a pint of milk in the evening,
and should have so many strokes at the batli ;
but this was several days before Ashby went to
the bath, I believe at least ten; Presently
after be came to town. And I say, that this
letter that the court asks me how I prove it to
be his hand, I prove it thus : I saw him write
a bill to an apothecary for Mr. Ashhy to take
something when he was in town.
X. C. J. But was that business of being as-
sisted to kill the king in the same letter that
the physical directions were in ?
Oates. Yes, my lord.
Sir G. Wakeman. Then it is the same letter.
X. C. J. How does that follow ? might there
not be two ?
Sir G. Wakeman, There is only that part of
it which is the physical prescriptions, he hath
torn off the other part.
Then Mr. Chapman was examined. .
Chapman. My Lord, the 17th of July last,
If r. Thirobleby came to the bath.
L.C.J. Who?
Chapman, Mr. Thimbleby ; a man of about
fourscore years of age, a very feeble and infirm
man. As soon as be came to me, be told me
that sir G. Wakeman recommended me to him,
and desired me that I would provide a lodging
for him as near the king and queen's bath as I
could : I did so ; and then he shewed me a
letter from sir George, whereof this was the
lower part of half a sheet of paper; there was
full directions how to take the physic, and after
the taking the bolus, to drink the waters so
many days, and then to use the bath, and after
that the pump, and after that he was to take a
dose of pills after his bathing. I took off this
latin bill that concerns me, my- lord, and gave
him the English pait.
X. C. J. Did you read the English part ?
Chapman. My Lord, my son read it as well
as I, who should have come up, and testified
the same, but that it is impossible for both my
son and me to leave the shop and come toge-
ther, because of my employment.
X. C, J, But iu that letter there was nothing
mentioned of killing the king, was there ? nor
of the queen?
Chapman. No, my Lord, not upon the word
of a christian, except it were the king and
queen's bath.
Then the Paper was shewn him.
X. C. J. Whose hand is that ? do you be-
lieve it is sir George's hand ?
Chapman, No, my lord : I have brought
some of sir G. Wakeman's bills here.
X. C. J. Do you know whose hand it is ?
Chapman. No, my Lord.
Just. Atkins. What name was subscribed to
that letter?
Chapman, There is none subscribed to this
paper.
X. C. J, Was there no name to it ?
Chapman. I did not take notice of that.
X. C. J. But look, you, this cannot be that
letter, because that letter Mr. Oates speaks of
was of sir George's own hand, as he thinks by
comparison, and his name subscribed to it.
Sir G Wakeman. I never writ any other
letter, but what was dictated to my man, and
sent by Ashby to the bath. My Lord, he hath
owned it himself before the House of Lords,
that I writ but obe letter, and I had my
liberty before. Now it was told him there, that
if he had mentioned that letter when I was ex-
amined before the council, I had been certainly
taken into custody then, and should never have
had my liberty so long. I had my liberty from
the last of September, and could have gone to
Constantinople in the time I had my liberty ;
and certainly I should have provided for myself
if I bad known myself guilty, seeing so many
ca&t into prison upon that account.
Recorder. It is not probable that Mr. Ashby
would communicate such a letter to this gentle-
man, that had such a design in it.
Sir G. Wakeman. But if any one can, let him
prove that I bad any other business with him
than merely the business of a physician with
his patient. My Lord, I have a physician in,
town, that will testify, that I was to meet him
in consultations about Ashby.
' X. C. J. The answer is no more than this,
That you did write a letter, or there was a let*
ter writ by your directions, to Ashby, which
hath not any such matter in it as Oates speaks
of; but this* answers not Mr. Oates's testimony ;
it is true, the question will be upon Mr. Oates's
credit, how far the jury will believe him : if
Mr, Oates swears true, then you did write uno-
ther letter, and this is not the letter, and there
is no contradiction in your answer, to what he
says, but Mr. Oates stands with the jury how
far they will believe him.
Sir G, Wakeman. Gentlemen of the jury
take notice, I never writ any letter but that.
X. C, J. How does that appear ? if Mr.
Oates swears true, you did write another letter.
Justice Atkins. Mr. Chapman, was there any
mention of milk in that letter.
Chapman. No, my Lord. It is ridiculous to
drink milk with the waters, it will make it
curdle.
Oates. That is not the hand the letter I saw
was in.
X. C. J. He says it is not the same hand.
Oates. It was another, a genteel hand.
Justice Pemberton. And there was no men-
tion made of milk in it, the contents are not the
same.
Sir G. Wakeman. The contents were the same
but as for the milk, it is so ridiculous a thing,
that never a physician in England, but will say
it is perfect poison. I appeal- to Mr. Chapman/
who hath so long known the way there used,
if any one prescribed milk to any one that took
the waters.
X. C, J, Mr. Oates, was there, in the letter
you saw, where mention is made of the strokes
that were to be received from the pump, any
mention of the milk to be taken ?
Od let. The direction of the milk was for the
time lie stuid in town.
Justice Atkins. The milk was to be used
while in* staved here, was it ?
Oait*. Yes, my Lord.
X. C. J. Look you, there were
two
C47] STAtE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of Sir George Wakeman, [C48
<
Justice Pemberton. But, sir George, you do
not observe, that to the letter which he saw
your name was subscribed.
Sir G. Wa ket nan. This then is that I desire
may be taken notice of; it 19 not probable that
I should write two letters for the same thing,
and I never writ any other letter in my life.
L. C. J. This is that you say, and let it be
taken notice of, That it is not probable that
you should write two letters, for the same di-
rections how he might use the bath.
Justice Pemberton. This might be writ to
serve a turn very well.
Sir G. Wakeman. Then I will tell you the
reason why my name is not to it, and so I sa-
tisfy you about it as much as I can ; I was
very ill after I had dictated that letter to him,
and .went immediately to bed. It was not
writ very fair, or something was left out, which
he interlined, and so he transcribed it again in
his own chamber, and I was then asleep, and
so did not put my name to it, and he went
away two hours in the morning before I awoke,
Justice Atkins. Who wrote the letter ? Was
the letter you tore off in the man's name, or in
sir George's name ?
Chapman. I know not who wrote it.
Justice Atkins. Was it said to be, By mj
master's directions ? What were the contents
of the letter?
Chapman. It was only thus, " As soon as
you come to the bath, after resting a day, in
the first place take your bolus, and after drink
the waters." Which he did, for six days to*
gether.
Gates. My lord, I would answer to this :
this was not the letter, for therein he only told
him what he should do before be went to the
bath, and how many strokes he should receive :
besides, my lord, there was not one syllable of
the bolus in the letter, or what bath he was to
go into ; but when he came there, be was to
receive so many strokes of the pump.
Sir G. Wakeman. Nor one syllable of the
milk in it neither ?
Oates. Yes, there was ; he did take milk,
night and morning, for I attended upon him.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord, you see this wit-
ness is a Protestant.
Justice Pemberton. Mr. Oates, you say that
the letter that you saw was written ten days
before he went to the bath ?
Oates. Yes, if not more.
Sir G. Wakeman. Why should I tell him of
an hundred strokes so long before he went to
the bath ?
X. C. J. You might mention it to give him
satisfaction. Well, nave you any more f
Sir Q. Wakeman. Yes, my lord, Call Hunt,
[Who stood dp.]
X. C. J. What do yoa call him to, sir
George ?
Sir G. Wakeman. This is my man. What
do you know concerning a letter of directions
that was sent to Mr. Ashby ? Give an account
of it.
Hunt. If it please your honour, my master
things
that he should do, the one of them was to be
done while he was here, that was milk, the other
was to be doue when at the bath, and that was
the strokes.
Sir G. Wakeman. No, it is no such thing ;
fer he went away two days after that letter was
written.
Just. Pemberton. Mr. Chapman, is this part
of i he body of the letter ?
Chapman. Yes, my lord, upon the word of
a Christian ; I tore it off myself.
Justice Ellys. If Dr. Oates swears true, it
cannot be the same letter.
X. C. J. Your answer to it, which should
make it probable, is, That it is ridiculous to
prescribe milk. Now he says those were di-
rections what he was to do before he went to
tfae bath.
• Sir Geo. Wakeman. Why should I repeat
the number of the strokes twice, and write two
letters about one thing ?
Justice Pemberton. Is there any date upon
that letter? — Chapman. No.
Justice Pemberton. Off of what part of the
letter did you tear it ?
Chapman. Off the bottom of it.
L. C. J. North. What, it was writ cross,
was it ?
Chapman. Yes, I believe so.
Justice Atkins.. The truth of it is, This is no
evidence, and ought not to be offered as such,
for it is but a part of a thing, which we do not
know what it was in the whole.
Chapman. I con give it upon my oath that
there was nothing in it of the king or queen,
except the king or queen's bath.
X. C. J. Mr. Oates, if I remember right, you
say the directions that you saw were at the be-
ginning of the letter.
Oates. He was very weak when he came to
town, and his directions to bim then were,
That he should take a pint of milk in the morn-
ing, and that when he went to the bath he
should have a hundred strokes, or thereabouts.
X. C. J. Was this in the beginning of the
letter?
Oates. It was after a line or two that was
compliments.
X. C. J. Was there any receipt for physic,
in Latin, in it?
Oates. No, my lord, there was not : no, my
lord, it was half a sheet of paper; it was full
of itself to the bottom ; this is not the letter,
my lord.
Justice Pemberton. He says, this is neither
the hand, nor the name subscribed, nor the
contents of the letter ; all these differ.
Sir G. Wakeman. I will tell you the reason
why my name was not subscribed, I was sick,
my mail is here to witness, that he carried it
himself, and delivered it to Ashby.
«9] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— and others, far High Treason. [650
was out late, and coming booie, I told him,
Mr. Ashby had sent far some directions for
the bath ; and being weary and indisposed, (for
it was late, and he was not well) said he, ' I
cannot write myself, do you take my pen and
ink, and write/ I did take the pen and ink,
and write ; and ' when I had written, some-
thing was false in it ; * Pray/ said he, ' correct
that :' I did so, and interlined it, and when
my master was in bed I writ it over again, and
the next morning, before he was awake, I car-
ried it to Mr. Ashby myself, and there were only
directions io it what to do at the bath.
L. C. J. When was Mr. Ashby to go to the
bath ? How soon after ?
Hunt. He was to go the next morning.
L. C. J. If what Mr. Oates swears, be true,
this letter that he saw was ten days before, so
what he speaks is another thing.
Sir G. Wakeman. I nerer writ any such
letter in my life, and I hope the jury will take
notice of it.
Justice Atkins. Do you know any thing of
Mr. Ashby's drinking milk while he was here ?
Hunt. No, but he was • saying he was ad-
vised by a friend of his to drink milk.
L. C. J. When, at the bath ?
Hunt. No, when he was in town.
L. C.J. When he was in town ? that is con-
sistent with Mr. Oates's testimony.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord, there is a phy-
sician that was in consultation with me about
Mr. Ashby, I think it of great consequence to
shew that I came to him about no treasonable
affair, I vow to Almighty God I did not.
L. C. J. If you have any more witnesses,
call them.
Sir G. Wakeman. Call Elizabeth Henning-
ham [Who stood up.]
JL C. J. Sir George, What do you ask her ?
Henningham. I was present, ray lord, at the
writing of the letter. His servant writ, and he
dictated to him, every word of the letter I saw,
but there was no such thing in it.
L. C. J, I am very confident that this is
true that you say, but it is not to the thing that
Mr. Oates speaks of, and charges you withal :
that you did write such a letter as these people
'mention, and there was nothing in it but like a
physician's directions to his patient, I do be-
lieve, and this was just when he was going to
the bath ? but Mr. Oates tells you (if lie says
true) tbat this letter he speaks of, to which sir
G. Wakeman was subscribed, was ten days
before he went to the bath ; and that there was
no mention of any bolus in that, but the direc-
tion was in the first part how he was to use
himself, while he staid in town to drink milk,
and when he came to the bath, to use the pump,
so that this your witnesses say, and you urge,
is true, but not pertinent.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. I say, my lord, it is not
probable tbat I should wnte directions so long
before be went.
Hennmgham. My lord, he said himself be
wanted directions to go to the Bath, in my own
hearing.
Justice Pemberlon. Yes, he might, and in-'
deed he did so, for the first contained none,
but how be should behave himself while he was
here.
L.C.J. Have you any more witnesses?
Pray call them.
Sir Geo. Wakeman. My lord, I have this to
say, as I told you before, that I had my liber-
ty for twenty-four days after my examination
before the council. Mr. Oates called at the
bar of the House of Commons, and there gave
an account of this very Letter that he mentions
now, I say it was at the bar of the House of
Commons. Aurl thereupon the Commons sent
an Address to the Howe of Lords, with asto-
nishment that I was not under confinement;
and thereupon Mr. Oates was called to the bar,
of the {louse of Lords, and was commanded to
give an account what it was he knew concern-
ing me, that should create such an astonish-
ment in the House of Commons : He told them
of this Letter, and my Lord Chancellor said to
him, Do you know it was sir G. Wakeman's
hand ? No, said he : How do you know it was
his Letter then ? I know it only by this, said
he, it was subscribed, * George Wakeman/ If
he had such proof as he says he hath now, if he
had seen me writing, and came into the room
where the paper I writ was yet wet, whether
he would not have mentioned it there when
he was examined about the knowledge of my
hand.
L. C. J. Call your witnesses : But what say
you, Mr. Oates, yourself to it ?
Oates. My lord, sir G. Wakeman had his
liberty because I was so weak, by reason of
being up two nights together, one whereof was
so very wet, and being hot, wet, and cold, all
in a few hours time, so that I thought it would
have cost me my life; not being used to such
hard services, I did not charge sir George so
fully : Though it may be objected to this court,
that I was bound to speak the whole truth ;
and so I did, as opportunity and health would
give me leave. And as to the Letter, and
what I said about it in the Lords' House, sir
George is mistaken. He says here that I said
I knew his hand no otherwise, but by
seeing sir George Wakeman subscribed to it.
Sir G. Wakeman. I will prove it by the
Record.
Oates. Now, my lerd, I humbly desire that
be may'propose bis questions to the court: and
I desire to know, whether I did say, I did not
know it any other ways but by its being signed
G. Wakeman.
Sir G. Wakeman. Pray, my lord, be pleased
to give me leave
L. C. J. Mr. Oates, did you mention in the
House of Lords, whether you knew his hand
or no?
Oates. My lord, I cannot call to mind what
I then said, I did say, 1 saw such a letter,
signed George Wakeman ; but if be will bring
the record, and one that shall swear those were
the words, 1 will leave it to the jury. But
this, my lord, I would add, if you will give me
651] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chablbs II. 1G79 — Trial qf Sir George Wakemari, [652
leave ; the words I did say as near as I can
remember, were these, when they asked ine,
how I knew sir G. Wakeman's hand? I said,
I saw such a Tetter signed George Wakeman.
Now, my lord, upon this information, they did
think fit to take sir G. Wakeman up and secure
him ; and now I come face to face, and am not
only to satisfy judges, but a jury, 1 shew
you what reasons I have to believe it, and
what they may have, that it was his baud : For
I say, I saw him in a writing posture, I saw
bim lay by the pen, I saw him withdraw from
the paper, I saw none but another gentleman
there, that was lame of both his hands, and the
ink was not dry, and it was the same hand with
the letter.
Sir G. Wakeman. Was my name to that
note?
Oates, No, I will not swear that ; but the
character of the hand was the same, if I may
judge of writing.
L. C. J. North. Look you, sir George, you
spoke of witnesses you would call to prove
what he swore in the House of Lords; if you
can call any witnesses for that, do.
SirG. Wakeman. Call sir Philip Lloyd: I
hope your lordship will please to allow me, at
least, this advantage (I know not whether it be
an advantage) that the record of the House of
Lords may be made use of as "a record here.
If I prove it by the record, it will be a good evi-
dence.
L. C. J. Have you that record here ? .
Sir G. Wakeman. I have a copy of that re-
cord, and a witness that will swear it.
Then Sir Philip Lloyd appeared, and stood up.
L. C. J. What do you ask sir Philip Lloyd ?
Sir G. Wakeman. I desire to know of sir
Philip Lloyd, what Mr. Oates said of me be-
v fore his majesty and the council, the last day
of September; Sir, you were 'there present,
and sent by the king to me, and commanded to
bring me in to the council.
Sir Philip Lloyd. I will, my lord, as well as
I can, recollect and tell you, as near as I can,
what Mr. Oates did then accuse him of. It
was upon the 31st of September, Mr. Oates
did then say he had seen a letter, to the best
of his remembrance, from Mr. White to Mr.
Fenwick at St. Omers, in which letter he writ
word, that sir G. Wakeman had undertaken
the poisoning of the king, and was to have
15,000/. for it ; of which 5,000/. had been paid
him by the hands of Coleman. Sir G. Wake-
man, upon this, was called in, and told of this
accusation; he utterly denied all, and did in-
deed carry himself as if he were not concerned
at the accusation, but did tell the king and
council, he hoped he should have reparation
and satisfaction for the injury done to his ho-
nour. His carriage was not well liked of by the
king and council, and being a matter of such
consequence as this was, they were willing to
know further of it; and because the? thought
this evidence was not proof enough to give
. them occasion to commit him, being only out
of the letter of a third person, thereupon they
called in Mr. Oates again, and my Lord Chan-
cellor desired Mr. Oates to tell him, if he knew
nothing personally of sir G. Wakeman, because
they were in a matter of moment, and desired
sufficient proof, whereupon to ground a com-
mitment; Mr. Oates, when he did come in
again, and was asked the question, did lift up
his bauds (for 1 must tell the truth, let it be
what it will) and said, No, God forbid that I
should say any thing against sir G. Wakeman,
for I know nothing more against him. And 1
refer myself to tue whole council, whether it
was not so.
Oates. I remember not one word of all this.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord, this is a Protes-
tant witness too.
Oates. My lord, give me leave to make an
answer : when I did report this letter, the
council did a9k me whether or no sir George
was any ways concerned in this letter? I re-
plied, I had it by report, that sir George had
received 5,000/. of this money. My lord, the
council did not press me, to my knowledge; I
will not be positive ; but if the council did press
me, and I did make that answer, 1 do appeal
to the whole board, whether or no I was in a
condition to make any answer at all, when, by
reason of my being hurried up and down, aud
sitting up, I was scarce compos mentis.
L. C. J. What, must we* be amused with I
know not what, for being up but two nights ?
You were not able to give an answer; that
when they call and send for Mr. Oates again
to give a positive charge, and then you tell us
a story so remote: what, was Mr. Oates just*
so tipeitt, t'.at he could not say, I have seen a
letter undrr sir George Wakeman's own hand ?
Oates. My lord, 1 did, to the best of my re-
membrance, make mention of that letter that
sir George Wakeman writ, before the board*
I say, to the best of my skill and knowledge;
but I will not be positive in it.
L. C. J. You have heard what sir Philip
Lloyd says.
Just. Dolben. What say you, did Mr. Oates
make any mention of this fetter ?
Sir P. Lloyd. Truly, my lord, I can't remem-
ber that there was any such letter mentioned.
1 tell you what I do remember ; and afterwards
because be came and gave this deposition be-
fore the Lords and Commons, that he found such
a letter upon the table from sir George to Ashby,
indeed I did very much wonder at it, and it
made me reflect upon that other passage at
the council, of* his denying to accuse sir
George further, and it hath been in my mind
ever since.
L. C. J. And you do declare, that when the
lords of the council asked him, whether lie
knew any thing more particularly against srr
G. Wakeman, he did lift up his hands and said,
' No, God forbid I should charge him any fur-
ther, I know no more against bim/
Sir P. Lloyd. Yes, my lord, so it was.
Oates. My lord, I believe sir Philip Lloyd is
mistaken ; but however I was so weak, and the
653] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1G79.— and others, for High Treason. [654
king and council were so sensible of it, that i
the king himself bad uke to have sent me away
once or twice before, because he found I was
so weak.
L. C. J. It did not require such a deal of
strength to say, * I saw a letter under sir George's
own hand/
L. C. J. North. Well, it must be left to the
jury: If you have any more witnesses call
them.
L. C J. Mr. Oates, sir G. Wakeman urged
it right that he should not have been permitted
to have bis liberty so long, if you had charged
him home then.
Sir G. Wakeman. Call Mr. Lydcot.
Oates. To speak the truth, they were such a
council as would commit nobody.
Recorder. That was not well said.
Sir G. Wakeman. He reflects on the king and
all the council.
L. C. J. You have taken a great confidence,
I know not by what authority, to say any thing
of any body. But this is naturally true, that
when the council were offended at the carriage
of sirG. Wakeman at the board, and there-
fore sent for Mr. Oates again, doubting in them-
selves, whether what they had would be suffi-
cient to commit- him ; for indeed it was only a
wild thing, of what was mentioned in a letter of
a third person's, that sir George had accepted
of 15,000/. and received the five; therefore,
said they, we will know of Mr. Oates some
snore particulars, and sent for him in again, and
asked him, ' Do you know any thing of your
own knowledge ? If he had come in then and
said, ' Yes, I have seen a letter subscribed under
sir G. Wakenaan's hand/ would not they have
committed him ? surely they would. And now
the council's not committing him, is an argu-
ment that they had not sufficient evidence, and
Oates did omit at that time to charge him with
this letter.
Then Mr. lydcot stood up.
Sir G. Wakeman. Mr. Lydcot, have you a
copy of the Lords records ?
lydcot. Yes, it is;
Sir G. Wakeman. Pray, what did Mr. Oates
say to my lord chancellor in the House of
Lords ?
JL C. J. You must have that which is pro-
per evidence : You shall have all the fair deal-
ing that can be, and all that can be admitted
lor your defence shall be.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord I humbly thank
you I find it.
L. C. J. Ay, but this is now what the clerk
writes down as minutes. It is an hard construc-
tion to make this evidence. Were you present
when Mr. Oates was there and said this?
Lydcot. No, my lord, all I say, is this, this
is a copy of the record in the Lords House.
L. C. J. Did Mr. Oates set his hand to that
record.
Lydcot. Yes, in some places. It is Titus
Oates set in diverse places as bis hand to exa-
minations.
JL C. J. But is Mr. Oates's own hand set te
the record ?
Lydcot. I know nothing of that.
L. C. J. This is the objection. It will be hard
that if a clerk takes the depositions of Oates
or* any one else, and takes tbem as near as he-
can, but he never subscribes it, and you prove
only it is a copy of what the cjerk wrote, that
cannot be allowed as evidence.
Lydcot. It is a copy in most places of what
is under Mr. Relf's own hand.
L. C. J. But you can't swear the clerk writ
true ? ,
Lydcot. No, that I can't.
L. C. J. It may be an entry of what the
House of Lords did upon the examination :
That is not evidence here.
Just. Pemberton. If you can produce any one
that heard Mr. Oates give in his information,
you say well.
Sir 6. W. I believe there is a difference be-
tween the entry-book and the book of records;
and I hope you will look upon the book of
the House of Lords as the highest evidence,
beyond any verbal averment. My life is in your
hands, I ask you whether it be not so, or no f
L. C. J. liorth. If there be a record in any
court of record, that such a man appeared in
court, it is an evidence that he was in court,
and a record for it ; but when there is an exa-
mination in a court of record, these not passing
the examination of that court, but being taken
]by the clerks, we always in evidence, expect
there should be somebody to prove, that such
an examination was sworn and subscribed to.
L. C. J. Have you any witnesses here, that
were by, and heard what Mr. Oates did then
depose, and can testify what Mr. Oates said
when he was called in, and particularly what
answer he made to that single question of my
Lord Chancellor's how he came to know it was
your hand ?
Sir G. W. I can bring nooe hut these re-
cords or the lords themselves, and I can't ex-
pect it from them. And that which they call a
record, I am not able to judge whether- it be a
record or no.
L. C. J. Were there not others called with
him into the Lords House?
Sir G. W. No, there was none but the lords
themselves.
X. C. J. You should have had the clerks here
that made the entry, or saw him set his hand
to the examination.
L. C. J. North. This is nothing, but, as he
says, a transcript out of the Journal.
Lydcot. I believe it is written most under
Mr. Relf's own hand. There is a great deal
of it that contains the whole narrative that
Oates gave in.
L. C. J. North. Yon desire to give in evi-
dence what Mr. Oates said at the bar of the
House of Lords to what my lord chancellor
asked him ; if you have any' witnesses that can
prove it, they shall be heard. •
Sir G. W. My lord, I have no witnesses, enry
the record *
€55] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charjlbs II. 1679— Trial tf Sir George Wakemm, [656
X. C.J. This is only a copy of a narrative.
Sir -<r. W. If you will not allow it to be a
record^ I cannot help it*
Recorder. This is no part of the record of
the Hftnse of Lords, it cannot be allowed.
X. C. J. Well, have you any other, witnesses
to any thing else?
Sir G. W. I desire you would examine sir
Philip Lloyd once more. [Who was called, but
answered not.]
Recorder. He is gone out of the Court.
X. C. J. Well, what say the rest? Mr.
Corker, have you any witnesses in the first
place ? — Corker. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Mr. Marshal, have you any wit-
nesses, answer that first, before you enter upon
your defence ; you shall be beard afterwards.
Then Sir Philip Lloyd came into Court again.
Recorder. Sir George, here is sir Philip
Lloyd here now, what would yoa ask him?
Sir G. W. Sir Philip Lloyd, I desire to know
concerning the last examination of Mr. Oates
ajtd Mr. Bedlow, before the council; (you
were there present, as I am informed) pray will
you tell what you know.
Sir P. Lloyd. To what point, Sir ?
Sir G. W. To their whole evidence.
Sir P. Lloyd. I suppose what they have
given in lately, they have acquainted the bench
Sith already. It was some day this very mouth,
ut I would know what it is sir George would
have me speak to ?
X. C. J. What was there relating to sir G.
Wakeman ?
L. C. J. North. But pray consider, whether
it be a question fit to be asked of the clerk of
the council what was done in council without
leave of the board. I do not think he is bound
to answer the question.
Just, femberton. Sir George, if you would
ask him to any one particular question, it were
something.
Sir-G. W. I have done with him ; I hope
he will excuse me, I have put him to this
trouble.
X. C. J. Then Mr. Marshal, have you any
witnesses ?
Marshal. I cannot say I have any direct
positive, witnesses,
X. C. J. Think not that you shall be con-
cluded, we are not hi haste, you shall have
time, to say what you will; but if you would use
any witnesses, call them.
Marshal. For the present I shall have no
use of any.
X. C\ J. Well, Mr. Rumley, have you any
witnesses ?
• Rumley. I think I have.
X. C. 1. I cannot tell of any need you have
of any, for there is but one witness against
yon.
Corker. But he desires that his witnesses
may be beard, it is but short.
Sir R. Sawyer. There is no need of it, Mr.
Rumley, we cannot insist on it against you, you
must be acquitted.
Recorder. Will he have his witnesses called ?
If he will, he shall, though there is no need of it.
Rumley. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Then, sir Robert Sawyer, would
yoa say any thing more for the king, before the
prisoners make their defence ?
Sir R. Sawyer. My lord, there is one thing
which I would have answered, that is, the
variance between what Mr. Oates said before
the council, and what he says how, upon the
testimony of sir Philip Lloyd, who says, that
he gave no testimony of this letter under sir G.
Wakeman's hand; but being asked, whether
he knew any thing of his own knowledge, he
said, he had only met with a letter from White
to Fenwick, wherein it was said, So much was
proposed to, and accepted by sir G~ Wake-
man : And that he should then declare that he
could say more ; and lifting up his hands, af-
firm with a protestation ne knew no more.
Gentlemen, We hope to give you satisfaction in
this matter, for it was after a long and tedious
examination ; and we shall prove to you that
he w.as in great confusion, being almost tired
out with examination, which is not impossible
to happen to any man, though of the strongest
constitution and memory, after two nights
waking, and continual hurrying up and down.
We shall call sir Thomas Doleman to prove,
that he was tinder great confusion, and that the
king and council were so sensible of it, that
some of them would have had him gone away a
great while before be did go away. Swear
sir T. Doleman. [Which was done.]
Sir R. Sawyer. You hear what hath been
objected and said by sir Philip Doyd, will you
tell your knowledge of this matter?
Sir T. Doleman. My lord, Mr. Oates did
appear before the king and council* I think oa
the Saturday, before which was Michaelmas-
eve. The council sat long that morning, the
council sat again in the afternoon, ana Mr,
Oates was employed that night, I think, to
search after some Jesuits, who were then taken,
and that was the work of that night. The coun-
cil, I think, sat again Sunday in the afternoon*
Mr. Oates was then examined,. the council sat
long, and at night he was sent abroad again ta
search the lodgings of several priests, and to find
out their papers, which he did seize upon, and
one of the nights in that season was a very wet
night; he went either with a messenger, or with
a guard upon him. On Monday morning the
council sat again, and he was further examined,
and went abroad ; and Monday night Mr. Oates
was in as feeble and weak a condition as ever I
saw man in my life; and was very willing ta
hare been dismissed fur that time; for he
seemed to t>e in very great weakness and dis-
order, so that I believe he was scarce able to
give a pood answer. >
Sir R. Sawyer. Was that the time sir Philip
Lloyd speaks of?
Sir T. Doleman. I think he was called in on
Monday night.
Sir G. W. I received the summons on Sa-
turday, by a letter from sir A, Southwell.
U7] STATE TKUL3, $1 Ciiuw II. 161V.^*md ****,& Hyk Trtotm. [64*
Sir T. Aefeaisn. Yen were caHed in e*
Monday nigh*, the JMgfit before the king- went
to New-Market* .
Sir Q. Wi I appeared upon Sunday, and
was dismissed by sir Philip Lloyd, who cane
oat sod let roe know that the king said, he
would have the hearing of it himself; the next
dey.
Sir T. JfefaM*. Then, &r, you were called
in, and yoo gave your answer ; and the whole
council was amazed at the manner of it : For
you did not, in my opinion, or in the opinion
of several others, deny it so positively as one
that was innocent could, but used many great
expressions of your own great fidelity and
loyalty to the king, and of your family and the
services they had paid the crown, and did re-
quire satisfaction and reparation for the injury
done to your honour.
Sir Q. Waktmmn. My lord, I will give you
a brief account of it ; I leave it to you, whe-
ther I behaved myself ill or no ; I confess, I
think I might have behaved myself more sob-
massively ; there was nothing of duty wanting
in my mind, but I will give you an account of
what I said, eeresfftm. My Lord Chancellor
told me, that I was accused of the blackest of
crimes ; that I had undertaken to poison the
king. I asked him who was my accuser, be
pointed to Mr. Oases, and told me Mr. Oases
was my accuser. Says I, Mr. Gates, do you
know me ? Did you ever see me before ? Mr.
Gates said, No. Why then, said I, how come
F hi to be my accuser r Solid he, 1 will tell yoo *
was at St. Omen, where there was a consult
of the Jesuits, at which Mr. Ashby the rector
of the college at St. Omen did preside ; and
in that consult it was debated who was the
fittest |iersoa tor that horrid undertaking of
poisoning the king, and unanimously it was
agreed upon at that consult, that you were, sir
G. Wakeman by name: And now he says it
was debated here in England., Then, my lord,
(said I to my Lord Chancellor) here is no proof,
therefore I hope there is no need of any de-
fence. Sain* he, There is no smoke, but there
is some fire. My lord, said I, if you understand
by that, there can be no accusation without
some guilt, I should be sorry I should not un-
dentand both sacred and prophane hjstory
better than to think so. Then be pressed me
to know what I could say for myself. Said I,
my lord, I come of a loyal family, my father
had suffered very much, to the value of 18,000/.
and more for the royal family. My brother
raised a troop of horse for the king, and served
him from the beginning of the war to the end.
He was inajor to the marquis of Worcester, at
Worcester ngbt, and lost las life by the wounds
he received in the fcinx's service, As for my
own part, said I, I travelled very, young, aod
came over when Ireton was Lord Mayor, and
both by my religion and my name, was sus-
pected to be a favourer of the royal party, and
therefore was imprisoned, end did not* come
eat till I had given great security : and the
second time I wuecnminitted, was, when I en-
VOI- YII.
Jeted hue a plot, the oniy plot I was guilty of.
1 conspired with Captain incy and several
others to attempt something for his majesty's
Restoration, when few durst appear for him.
1 was seined on in my bed ; there were several
anas found in my apotbecary's.eeilar, and we
were both committed to orison ; and we should
both have sumwed death certainly, if his ma-
jesty's happv Restoration had not prevented it. .
When my lord pressed me still to say what I.
could say toe myself,, as to what was charged
on me ; I told him, my lord, I am under the
most foul and false accusation that ever inno-
cent gentleman was, and I expect separation ;
and upon that they were offended, and I was
bid to withdrew. And I added this beside, my
lord, that there was not a family in England
that was so much instrumental in his majesty's
Restoration, as that family was; that CoL
Charles Giffbrd was my near kinsman, so was
CoL Carlos ; and that the Pendrels were me*
nial servants to the family ; and I hope they,
deserve some favour.
JL C.J. What have you to say, sir George,
in your present defence here ? Make what ob-
servations you will now, upon the testimony
hath been given against you.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord, I say this, if k
had been allowed me to make use of the fte-
cerds of the House of Lords, it would have
made all things so evident and clear as no-
thing can be more ; for then, when be was
called to that bar, to give an account what
be bad declared to the House of Commons
concerning me, he gave an account of this
letter.
Justice Pembtrttn. Sir George, you must'
not make mention any more of these things,
that could not be given in evidence.
Sir G. Wduman. Then, my lord, I have ns>
more to say.
JL C. J. What say you, Mr. Corker ?
Corker. My lord, I hope the Court will not
require that I should bring any particular evi-
dence in confutation of what is here alledged
against me ; lor before I came to this bar, I
did not know any particular accusation that
was against me ; and therefore 1 could not be
ready to answer it and make my defence, or .
bring particular witnesses to evidence and shew
my innocencv. Besides, my lord, it is a known
general maxim, That a positive assertion is ee
easy to be made, as to prove a negative, is oft-
times hard, if not impossible. Men may easily
devise crimes and frame accusations against in*
nooent men in such a manner, that ibe con-
trary cannot possibly be demonstrated. No
mortal man can tell where he was, and what
he did and said every day and hour of his whole
life. Therefore I think ir is not only positive
bare swearing, but it is probable swearing, that
must render a man guilty of a crime. Other-
wise, my lord, it would be lawful and in the
power of Dates and his companions here, to
hang, by turns, Upon bare oath, all the inno-
cent men in the whole nation, though never so
innocent, and that for crimes never so adieu*
2U
George
[6G0
lou* and absard. And I say this farther, he
that swears against another, 6rst, ought to he
himself a credible witness ; and then, secondly ,
strengthened by probable circumstances ; cir-
cumstances that briug along with tbem some.
probable evidence distinct from the witnesses
themselves : Otherwise, I think that the party
accused, without any proof of his side, ought to
remain in the possession of his own innocency.
Now, I think, my lord,- there will be never any
one of these two necessary conditions to he
found in the evidence against me; for, first,
the witnesses against me, are persons that are,
or at least formerly have been, of scandalous,
lives.
X. C. J. You should prove it, before you
say it. You shall have all things allowed yon
that are fit; but you most not heap up con-
tumelies, upon men unproved, or call men
names, when you have proved nothing against
them. If you" can prove any thing, of God's
Dame do it ; prove them as fully as you can.
Corker. I do only say this, They have been
reported and owned by themselves, as men that
have been of scandalous lives.
X. C. J. If the jury know it of their own
knowledge, I leave it to them ; but yon have
proved nothing.
Corker. Well, my lord, but then, in the
next place, neither will the positive oaths of
men formerly infamous, be any convincing ar-
guments of our guilt : And then next, as to the
other circumstauces that should render me
guilty, Mr. Oates does not here make me guilty
alone of this grand conspiracy ; but he involves
the nobility, gentry, and the whole body of the
Catholics in this treason. Now, my lord, I re-
fer it to the'judgment of the Court, whether so
many persons as ho names, and those of such
.eminent quality, and of such considerable es-
tates in their countries, persons settled under
so good a king, in so peaceable a kingdom ; so
quiet in coudition ; men of good and virtuous
Hves and unblemished conversations, before
this hour, should hazard their honours, their
hves, their families, their bodies, their souls,
their all in such a design !
, X. C. J. What is this to your case ?
Corker. My lord, if this be not probable, 1
hope I am (ree of the Plot.
X. C. J. But what is this to your case ?
Pray hear; you are now making a speech
against Mr. Oates and Mr. Bed low, That they
do accuse people of great honour and quality ;
he hath given no accusation against any as yet,
that you ape to take notice of. You ought to
make- use of nothing as an argument to the
jury, but of the evidence that bath been given
to the jury. If you can make use of any thing
that Mr. Oates or Mr. Bedlow hath said here
to contradict them, or invalidate their testi-
mony, yon have said well. But to talk of
such a story, of accusing noblemen, and such
like, when there is nothing of that before yon ;
you must firs^ prove what yoo will infer from.
Corker. My lord, this I take to be of very
great concern to myself, that since the troth of
this evidence does depend upon the certainty
of the Plot, and this pretended conspiracy
against bis sacred majesty ; If there be no such
plot and conspiracy, and if, by circumstances,
I can render it improbable, I hope the jury will
take it into consideration.
X. C. J. Ay, ay, I am of that opinion, if tbon
canst but satisfy us and the jury, that there is
no Plot, thou shalt be quitted by my consent.
Corker, I will, my lord, shew you the ins*
probability of it.
X. C. /. Ay, do but give ns one probable*
argument, (yoo being a learned man, and a
priest) why we should believe, there is no Plot.
Corker. My lord, I would have endeavoured
to have shewn you the improbability of it, but
yet I would not urge it, because it may not be
so grateful to your lordship. But to me, it is
not probable, that so many honourable and
virtuous persons should be involved in a Plot so
dangerous, so horrid and detestable in itself;
wherein, my lord, as be says, so many thou-
sands of people, and even a whole nation, were
to be overwhelmed : of which, if a discovery
had been made by any person, it would have
prevented the utter ruin of so many millions.
It is not rational or probable, that such vast
whole armies should be raised, and foreign na-
tions concerned in the Plot. AH which, not-
withstanding all the evidence tlmt can be made
out of this Plot, is hut ouly their 'positive
swearing,
X. C. J. Just now you made your objection,
that it was a strange thing that such a design
should be communicated to so many ; now yon
make it a wonder why so few should know it,
only Oates and Bedlow. Your argument be-
fore was, that it was a wonderful thing, that so
great a Concern should be communicated to
any one, ami now you wonder more, that none
should know it but they two.
. Corker. Therefore, my lord, I from tbence
argue thus, that since there is no other evidence,
nor further proof of it, than from Mr. Oates,
and Mr. Bedlow, I infer there is no such thing
at all.
X. C. X Yes, as for your army, there is more
than so : Do you remember what Mr. Dogdale
and what Mr. Praunce say ?
Corker. Yes, my lord, considering these per-
sons, what they are, their vile baths, and the
encouragement they have met with, by such
endearments and caresses, as they have found,
their credit is not much to be weighed. Now,
my lord, I apply to the accusation that is
against myself.
X. C. J. Ay, ay, that is your best -vay, for it
would have been an hard task for you to prove,
that there was no Plot. We were in great ex-
pectation wba/ arguments yeu wbuld bring us
for it.
Sir G. Wakeman. My lord, will you give me
leave to observe one thing more to your lordship
and the Court ? Mr. Oates does mention in bis
Narrative, of at least thirty or forty pages, and
all this upon oath, (so be seith in the end of bit
Narrative) but \ would observe, that there it
661 J STATE TRIALS, SI Chaeles IL 1 679^-md Qt?*n,Jor High Treason. (<jQ»
» .»
not a letter dated in France, or in the Low*
Countries, or received here, but he swears posi-
tively as to the date of it, and reception of it;
but now, when he comes to mention any thing
wherein a man's life is concerned, he will not
tie up himself to a month.
X. C. /. Yes, lie does, and to part of a month.
He cells you, it was the beginning, or middle, or
latter end ; and he speaks punctually as to the
list of August.
Sir G. Wokeman. But io all bis whole Nar-
rative, he speaks to a day.
Recorder. As my lord says', he speaks
punctually to the 21st of August. And as to
the letters, he took the date of them in his
memorial.
Corker. My lord, I would only take notice,
that at the first, Mr. Oates thought to take ad-
vantage of some words of mine, at my examina-
tion ; he told you, that I bad gone into France,
but that I denied it when I was examined De-
fore the justice of peace. My Lord, I deny all
this ; for the justice of peace examined me
where I had lived.
X. C. J. We have nothing of this matter here
before us.
Just. Pembcrton. Yon are to answer what he
says now.
Corker. It is what Mr. Oates says now, for
I knew nothing of it till now. Now, my lord,
as to that, I say, I did not deny it before the
justice of peace that examined me ; for I told
him, I lived with a certain Jady IS years, till
sbe died ; and during that time, I never was
beyond the sea but once, which was 5 years
since, for the cure of a quartane ague that I
had, and I went over to France; otherwise,
during all that time that I was with my lady, I
did not go beyond sea. Upon this, the justice
began to ask me other questions ; whereupon,
my lord, I recollected myself, and said. Sir, I
told you I had not been beyond sea during the
time I bad been with my lady, but that time,
5 years since ; but my lady being dead, I went
over last summer in August to perfect the cure
of that ague; for I had it 7 years, spring and
mil. And this I told him of myself, without
asking. The last summer I went over, and
there I staid till 2 days before September;
therefore I did commit no mistakes in what I
said, or used any cloke to cover it. Now, my
lord,, he says, I went to Lnrnpspriog, which is
in the farther end of Germany.
JL C. J. He says, you said so.
Corker. Pray ask him haw be knotva it ? he
says by my letters: Sure if this man were priry
to those great conspiracies which he charges
me to be a partner in, it is not probable but
that I should tell him where I went; and then
if I did tell him so, I must go thither and back
again in six weeks time, which was morally im-
possible to do, to go tbitber, and to return ; for
1 was but six weeks out of town.
X. C. J, How you argue, Sir ! He says, you
told him, you went to Xampspring: Say you,
Certainly f would tell him true, because Lb was
engaged with me in conspiracies ; but this can-
not be true, because of the length of tbe way.
Is this a way of arguing? May not you tell htm*
you go to one place, and indeed go to another f
Corker. What reason or motive had X to tell
him a lie ?
X. C. J. It is a hard matter for us to give
an account of Jesuits answers, even one to
another.
Corker. I am not a Jesuit, I will not say the
least vntruth to save my life. Then as to my
being president, as he calls it, of the congrega-
tion ; all the congregation, and all that know
as, know that StapWtoo (formerly chaplain to
the queen J is- and hath been for 12 years, pre*
sident of that order. And I am confident that
all catholics, and most of the Court, do likewise
know it to be true, and by consequence, it is
likewise untrue, that there was an agreement
made by the Jesuits and Benedictine monks,
when I was at Paris, to which I was not privy,
but could not go on till I was acquainted with
it, and consented to it. . Now, my lord, if I be
not presideut of that order, that must be a flam
and a story.
X. C. J. You say that, prove1 who is.
Corker. Mr. Stapleton was, as it is wefl
known.
X. C. J. Call who you will to prove it, if you
can.
Corker. Here is one of tbe lay-brothers of tht
order.
X. C. J. Who U that ?
Corker. Mr. Rumley here.
X. C. J. He cannot be a witness for you, or
against you, at this trial.
Corker. My lord, since I did not know of it
before, I could not bring any body.
X. C. J. Yon put it upon yourselves.
Corker. My Lord, I say then I was never at
any consult where any such sum of money was
proposed or agreed, nor was it requisite or ne-
cessary that I should be so much privy to it,
for I was not superior of the order, nor presi-
dent of it, by reason of which my consent
should be necessary, or any such letter be writ
to me, or any such received from me* And
then, my lord, secondly, I must take notice
again; he accuses roe of being bishop of
London, and that I did consent to this agree-
ment uf paying so many thousand pounds ; if
I were guilty of this, and likewise of contriving
tbe king's death, and especially consenting to
Pickering's murder of the king, when that
Pickering was taken, I should have been taken
too, or I knowing myself Guilty, should have
fled.
X. C. J. You excepted against Pickering,
and thought him not a convenient man, be-
cause he was one of your order.
Corker. I hope he does not positively say I
consented to the king's death ; he says indeed
I knew something of it; now I was near him
when he was taken. All the officers that came
to take Mr. Pickering, came to my chamber.
Mr. Oates says he was there at the taking of
Pickering ; if I were guilty of all these things,
being superior and master to this Picketing, it
ii a strange thing that he should neither know
me, nor own me, nor accuse roe, nor take me,
nor apprehend me, until almost a month after ;
alt which time I had my liberty ; but then
taking notice of my going down there, and hav-
ing further information of me that I had lodged
there, he took me in to his catalogue of bishops,
and he came to take me. But if I had been guilty,
of these heinous things,there is no reason but they
should have apprehended and taken me- when
Piekering and Grove, and Ireland, and sir G.
Wakeman were taken.
L. C. J. I will teU you what for that : If
you were now arraigned for being a priest, you
might well make use of that argument, that
when they took Pickering and Grove, if they
smew you have been a priest, they should have
taken you too, and yet for all that you were a
priest, yon could not have denied it. But
would it have been an argument, because yon
were not then taken, you were not so ? So you
might be in the Plot, and not be taken, and it
is no argument from your not being taken, that
you were not.
Corker. I say, my lord, if he came to dis-
cover the plotters, it had been bis duty to have
taken rue before, if I had been one in the Plot.
L. C J. So it bad been his duty to have
taken you as a priest.
Carter. But I was, as he says, equal in the
same crime with Pickering, and therefore he
should have taken me, when he took him.
L. C. J. Have you any thine more ?
Corker, Besides, my lord, I find ne under-
took to tell the names of all those that were
engaged in this conspiracy, bat among them all,
my name is not, therefore it is a new iavention
of bis.
Ih&J. That is not said here, yon go off
from what is said here.
L. C. J. North. Can yon prove that ? then
first do it, and then make your observations
upon it, if you can prove what he said before
the lords by witnesses ; but otherwise you
most not discourse upon what you have not
proved.
L. C. J. Here is nothing of that before this
jory.
Corker. I cannot prove it otherwise than by
the record. I desire it may be looked upon,
and I refer it to the consideration of the jury,
whether if he did say he did not know any
thing else of any man whatsoever, but what he
had then declared, and I am not there accused ;
whether this accusatioa be now to be believed ?
L. C. J. That hath been answered already.
Just. Dotbtn. But it is not proved by them.
Corker. I leave it to the jury whether they
.will believe it or no.
L. C. J. You say -well, if you refer it to the
jury, let them consider it.
Corker. I say, they ought to take it into their
consideration, tbey are not rashly to give a
verdict against me ; and, gentlemen, I believe
I may refer it to your consciences, whether you
do not know what I say to be tree in this bu-
r
m.—Trid (f Sk Qeergt Wukmm^ [664
L. C. /. Mr, Marshal, what say you to it ?
JfaraW. Truly, my lord, what I bare to
say for myself is this. About a month ago I
was told the time of my trial was at hand, and
being tbea full of good hope; I did endeavour
to provide for it, and I bad a great confidence,
my lord, that it would succeed ; bat truly upon
the ill success of the late trials, either my hope
or my heart failed me, and I did resolve to east
myself upon God and his Providence, and how-
ever my silence might have been interpreted, I
did resolve, with silence and submission, to re-
sign up myself to whatsoever your lordship and
the worthy jury should be pleased to decree
upon me. Bat, my lord, since your lordship
is pleased to fling forth some encouragement,
and to baag out the white flag of nope, for
your lordship hath been pleased to use many
faoious expressions, and so, my lord, upon this,
shall, contrary te my former determination,
now endeavour to make defence for my life as
well as I can : But, my lord, not being so weM
able to do it, or of so quick capacity as that
learned and wise counsel which we have here
of counsel for us, to wh, the honourable bench,
of judges : for, when enquiring, why, by law,
we were allowed no counsel? I was told,
that the whole bench qf judges were always)
of counsel for die prisoner ; and indeed
they look upon it as an obligation upon
them, as far as truth and justice will per*
nut them, to plead for us. Now, my lord
with an humble heart, I would suggest
some heads of defence to this learned, wise,
and honourable counsel, and leave it to theaa
to manage my cause for me, according to truth
and justice, which they are better able to do for
me than I for myself. My lord, I have, I
thank God, no spleen, nor hatred in my heart,
against the worst of my enemies, nor shall be
desirous of revenge, 1 leave them and their
proceedings to God ; neither am I willing to
charge Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow with worse
than the necessity ef my defence will occasion
me to say of them. Now, my lord, the best
of men may be mistaken in a person, and
if I prove Mr. Oates is mistaken in the per*
son in me, then I charge Mr. Oates with no
great crime, and yet make my own Defence.
Now, my lord, I offer these thtngs for that
defence, and I«bope your lordship will ap-
pear my great advocate, and what I suggest
in a few heads, you will, I hope, put it into a
method, and manage it better than I can
myself. My lord, when I was first brought
before' Mr. Oates, as truly all that
with me do know, I carried myself with a _
deal of courage and confidence, for I was
tain that he did notinow me, and I did believe
it would be only my trouble of going thither
and coming back again.
X. C. J. To go whither f
Marthai. To Westminster. And pray take
notice of this : when I was first apprehended, I
was never sought for, nor named as a traitor
in this business ; but coming accidentally into
en home to ask for one, where they
<Kft] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chabies II. 167*.— and others, far HigklWaxm. [006
toattyjemchiag, though I saw the constable
at the door, and lights in the Loose, yet I went
,in and asked, ifstich an one was within ? I
think this confidence will not rut ion ally sup-
pose me Gaiky, the Hoase being under sus-
picion.
L. C J. Here is no proof of all this.
Marshal. All that were there know it : sir
Wiliiam Waller, which -took me, knows ir. -
L. a J. Sir William Waller, is this so ?
Sir Wm. Waller. My lord, when I came to
search the house, I placed one at the door,
and him I ordered to let whoever would come
ia, but no person whatsoever go out. When I
was searching, this person comes and knocks
at the door, hat did not know, I soppose, of
any person searching in the house; tor when
the door was opened, and he let in, and under-
stood it, he presently endeavoured to get away
again*
Marshal. By your favour, my lord, I am very
loath to contradict what sir W. Waller says in
any thins;, I wotjlrt willingly believe hhn a jnst
person, that would say nothing bat the truth :
hat God Almighty is my witness that I never
knocked, the door was open, and I came in of
my own accord, both in at the /irst and the
second door. This the constable will testify.
L.C. J. And yon would not have gone
away again if you could, would you ?
Mmrthal. I wjH give you better proof of it :
while they were searching in an interior room
(and this is welt known by them all that were
there) I was in an outward room by myself,
this sir W. Waller knows,4tnd when they came
back and foand me there, the constable and
the rest wondered I was not gone. I was left
alone by the door, by myself; the outward
door I found open, and there4 is another door
which leads out into an alley, which any man
can open in three minutes time, and I know
how co do it. Now I conld not learn it since
I was taken, for I have not been permitted to
fp abroad, but been under close confinement.
oat if it be worth the while, and you will give
me leave to go there, I nan siieto yon how it is
opened in less time than 1 can speak three
words.
L. C. J. Would you have the jury stay here
while you go and shew us the floor ? If yeu
have any witnesses to prove it, call them.
Come, to the purpose, man.
Marshal. My lord, I say, if it were worth
the while, that it might be made appear, that
if I would go away, I could, but I did not get
away, but stayed with a great deal of confi-
dence, my lord ; therefore I urge this to the
Ciot, that Mr. Oates is mistaken. After I
d been there a while before Mr. Oates, sir
Wm. Waller wished me to withdraw, and after
I had been absent a while and came back
again, sir Wm. Waller wished me to pluck off
S periwig, and turn my back to him and
. Oates; I did not then well understand
the meaning of it. Bat afterwards sir Wm.
Waller, oot -of his great civility, came to see
me at the Gata-house, and h/o light with
two very worthy persons, sir* Philip Matthews
and sir John Ctftler. Sir P. Matthews upon
discourse hearing me deolare that Mr. Oates
was a perfect stranger to me, said, That Mn
Oates, in testimony that he knew me, had given
such a certain mark behind in my head. I told
sir P. Matthews, if he pleased to pluck off my
periwig, he should seo whether there was any
such mark or no ; bot he being an extraordi-
nary civil person, told me, be would not give
me the trouble, I desise Mr. Oates to declare
now beforehand, what that mark was behind
my head, and if there be such a mark, it is some
evidence that his testimony is true ; but if there
be no such, then it will appear to this honour-
able court and the jury, that he did not know
me, but was mistaken in the man.
* L.C. J. I suppose he does not know you sa
much by the mark behind your head, as by that
in your forehead.
Marthal. But why did he then speak of the
mark behind my head ?
Jtoerrfer. How does that appear, that
he did give such a mark ?
Sir W. Waller. I shall give your lordship a
short account what was done t when I brought
him to Mr. Oates, 1 did desire indeed to see
his periwig off, to see if there were any appear-
ance of a shaven crown. After that I bad
done that, I caused him to withdraw till I had
taken Mr. Oates/s examination upon oath, and
after I had taken that, I desired him to come
in again, and I read it to him, and taxed him
with k, to which be gave a general denial to
every particular, and thereupon I committed
him to the Gate-house.
L. C. J. What is this to the business of the
mark ? »
Sir W. Waller. I do not know of any mark ;
bot this I do know, that as soon as ever be
came in, Mr. Oates called him by his name.
-Marshal. I desire sir Philip Matthews may
be called.
Recorder. H« is not here ; what would yon
have with hi hi ?
Marshal. To ask, if he did not know in par-
ticular, that the mark was such a spot behind
my head ? Hath he not been hen? to-day I
Recorder. I cannot tell that.
L. C. J. But he called you by your name,
before ever you plucked off your periwig ; so
saitb sir William Waller.
Marthal. That which I was to shew, if I
could, and truly all my defence lies upon it, is,
that Mr. OateY is a perfect stranger to me, and
consequently hath nothing against me. Now
if Mr. Oates did give a false mark to know rae
by, and there k no such mark, I think it is a
proof that he is mistaken. >
L. C. J. Sir W. Waller says the contrary, he
called you by your name, and there was aa
mark mentioned; bat if yon will suppose what
you please, you may conclude what yon list.
Marthal. 8ir W. Waller plucked off my pe>.
riwig, and hid me torn my back to him.
L. C. J. That was to see whether yon were
shaven, or no.
6C7] ' STATE TRIALS. 3 1 CHables II. 1679.— Trial qfSir George Wakanan, [6C8
'Marshal. Sir AV. Waller had not so little
knowledge,as to think that the priests go shaven
here in England, where it is death for them, if
they be discovered. Besides,, my lord, it was
put in the common news-books which were dis-
persed abroad in the couii'ry, that it was a
white lock behind. Well, if there be any thing
of favour or inclination to mercy in the court,
I shall find it ; but if there be none, it will not
succeed, though I spoke ten thousand tiroes
over ; nay, though it were spoken by the tongue
of men or angels it would do me no good;,
therefore I intorce it again to the jury to .take
notice of, that there was a particular mark
given.
X. C. J. That you have not proved.
Marshal. My lord, I would beseech you to
take notice of what every man knows, and it is
against reason to believe, that sir W. Waller,
knowing the world so well as be is supposed to
do, should think we went with shaven crowns
in England.
L. V. J. And therefore Dr. Oates must look
for another mark, must be ; bow does that ap-
pear ? \
Marshal. All England know, that those who
go over to any seminary or cloister, never come
over again to England till their hair be grown
out, that it may be no mark or testimony that
they are such persons.
L. C. J. Do you think all mankind knows
that ?
Marshal, All that is rational does.
L. C. J. Well, you hear what sir W. Waller
says.
Marshal. I always looked upon sir W.
Waller as a very learned upright person, and
did rely upon what he should testify for my
defence, and be knows when Dr. Oates brought
in his first testimony against me, I did beg that
what he said should be written down by him.
Said sir W. Waller, it shall not be written
down, but I will promise you to remember
what he says. Now I hope sir W. Waller, as
an honest and worthy gentleman, will keep his
word, and I desire him to do it, as he will an*
swer it before God at the Great Tribunal.
L. C. J. Ask him what you will. You ad*
jure him, and yet you won't ask him.
Marshal. Now my lord, I will tell you how
Mr. Oates came to know my name (which
is another proof that he is a stranger to me.)
When I came first in, I asked Mr. Oates if he
knew me ? and looking seriously upon me, be
asked me what my name was ? Now we know-
ing no more of a man's thoughts but what bis
words discover, it may seem by that very ques-
tion that Mr. Oates was a perfect stranger to
me. Now when I told him my name was
Marshal, he was pleased to answer, you are
called Marsh. But my lord, I should consider
that which hath been before offered to your
lordship, but that I do not much insist upon,
that if Mr. Oates had a commission to search
for priests and traitors, be was as well bourid to
|eU you I was a priest as a traitor ; that is an
argument for me, I say. If he bad a commis-
sion to apprehend priests, I conceive, if he'
knew us to be priests, he should by force of
such a commission have seized upon us.
L. C. J. He needed no commission to do
that, he did search to find out traitors.
Marshal. He heard us particularly named,
looks upon us, goes away, denies that he knows
us, gives us leave to sleep out our sleep,
and if we would to be gone. Therefore it h
without any likelihood or probability that ha
bad any thing to say against, us.
, L. C J. You have not proved one word of
all this.
Marshal. He owned it himself, that he had
searched the Savoy far traitors, and did not
take us. I speak this out of his own mouthy
therefore it is incredible, and I nope the jury
will take notiee ofitt be was searching for
traitors, and knowing me to be a notorious
traitor as he would have me to be, that ha
should find me in bed, have bis majesty's officers
with bim, and not seize upon me.
Justice Pemberton. It does ndt appear to as,
you have not proved it.
L. C. J. Sir William Waller, did he say
first, do you know me ? and then Oates ask bis
name ?
Sir Wm. Waller. I speak solemnly, as in the
presence of God, there was not one word of
all this.
Corker. I beseech you, ro/ty I speak one
word?
L. C, J. Have you done, Mr. Marshal ? *
Marshal. Truly my lord, I am astonished.
I protest and coufess before God I am asto-
nished. There is Mr. Gill the constable who
owned this, and promised to be here to attest
it, for there was a dispute about it between Dr.
Oates and me : for said I presently, If you took
me in bed and knew me to be a traitor, why
did you not seize me ? be answered me again
expressly, before sir Wm. Waller, I had no
commission then to sake you : but said I, yon
acknowledge I was then a conspirator, andsocb
your commission was to seise. You might have
declared to the officers you knew roe to be a
traitor, and have bid them take charge of me:
it is impossible that you should so well know it
and not do it, sure.
♦ L. C. J. Was there any such thing as this, '
sir Wm. Waller.
Sir Wm. Waller. Really, my lord, I do not
remem ber any thing of it.
L. C. J. Mr. Marshal, call your witnesses.
Marshal. Is Mr. Gill the constable here ? he
owned it. I think 1 had as good make an end,
I may leave it here, for what I shall say I find
will be to little purpose.
L. C. J. You do not prove what you affirm.
Marshal. My lord, I do not go as Mr. Oates
and Mr. Bedlow do, who bring no circumstance*
of probability or likelihood ; they only say they
were such a time amongst such and such per- *
sons, and such and such things were agreed,
but shew no probability of it. But I instance
in such things as do carry a probability ia
themselves, and I name those that were by.
669] STATE TRIALS, Si Chauis II. 1679.— and others, for High Treason. [670
of the jury, for they must be kept fasting all
those days till they give in their verdict? for
they mast be shut up till then.
Afarshal. My lord, with your leave, there
have been those that have been upon their
trials, and sent back Jo prison before the jury
have given a verdict, and after tried again.
L. C. J. North. Ay, if they be discharged
quite of you.
L. C. J. I tell you the jury must be kept to-
gether close til) tliey give their verdict.
Marshal. The jury was not kept up
when Mr. Whitebread and Mr. Fenwick were
tried, and they were afterwards tried again.
L. C. J. The jury were wholly discharged of
them.
Marshal. If you have any regard of my life,
you may discharge them of me.
L. C. J. Truly this is as reasonable as any
thing you have offered.
Marshal. If your lordship believe what I say
is true, you throw away my life unless you
grant me. this time I should (>e a very info.
mous man if 1 did not prove it then.
L. C. /. If the jury believe it, I am satisfied.
Marshal. My Lord, I should then come full
of shame, if I did not prove what I soy ; there-
fore I hope the court will allow me time to prove
what I affirm that that particular day, ana that
the day before, and the day after I was in . the
country, and stirred not. And then as to the
day before the Assumption which he charges
upon me and the 4av after, I can bring wit-
nesses to prove I was those three days at ano-
ther house almost 50 miles off London; so there
is nothing in all that is 'aid against me by Mr.
Oates which comes to be determinative and po-
sitive in his testimony but I cau disprove it if
time he alloxved me, but if that cannot, I can
bring such proof as can testify, thttt I had before
tiioo** that could evidence it.
Corker. I told your lordship, I think, that
the constables and other persons that came there
to take Pickering said they knew nothing of
me. and had nothing «i say to me. Your lord-
ship tells me, this I ought to prove. I most
cenfes» I could not expect that, when there
were so many, an hundred people at least, that all
those people pom ing in I should be put to prove
it. But here is a servant that was in the house
then, that will tell you the same,. that will attest
they said they had nothing to say to me.
Justice Petnberton. Call any of your wit*
nesses that yi'tt have.
Justice Down. Mr. Corker, you remember
that the last t ime you were here at the bar, you
desired time because you had not your wit-
nesses; it is now above a month ago, and there-
fore you have no reason to say your witnesses are
not ready. Let us see them, that we may see
you did not abuse us.
Recorder. Who were the persons that were
then at Ton bridge ?
Corker. I tell you sincerely, my l!/)rd, I did
not know what they would say, but theu I did
take notice when my accusation was read
against me, that there was a time mentioned of
L.C.J. And have no proof of it in the world.
And what you call sir Wm. Waller for, he says
the contrary, there was no such thing.
Marshal* I say, my lord, what he says is to
my great astonishment. Do you remember,
sir Win. Waller, this, that Mr. Gates said there
when be was asked if he saw me last summer,
I saw you not only in August, but in June and
Jnly?
Sir Wm. Walter. I remember something of
that.
Marshal. I humbly thank you, sir, for ac»
knowledging that.
L. C J. What use do you make pf that ?
Marshall I shall make use of that. The
dispute was so eminent betwixt us that it was
impossible to forget it.
JL. C. J. Well, nave you done, Mr. Marshal ?
Marshal. No, my lord, though I had as
good hold my peace. I could not have witnesses
to disprove Mr. Oates in particulars of time
and place ,because I could not foresee what time
or place be would name. My Lord, I bad wit-
nesses here at the time of my last trial to prove
and swear, if .they might be admitted, thai I
was here neither in June, nor July, or Au-
Stt, but spent some months at a place called
roborough in Warwickshire.
L C. J. Can you prove this ?
Marshal. I can prove » that I had such as
would have proved it then. Now. my lord,
this is that I say, if the court be inclined to any
favour or mercy : life being a thing of snch con-
cern, I nope some little step may be allowed
to have some time to bring such people ; but
if there be no inclination to mercy, it would be
the same thing if the proof were here.
L. C. J. The court will do you all justice
here, and that is their mercy.
Marshal. I am confident [ shall have great
justice done me, I would not have said one
word in my defence if I did not l»elif ve so. I
took heart by what ymir lordship hnd said, and
I have already 'lone that which I thought most
material for it. I have urged first the false
mark that he gave to know me by. And thtn
las taking me in bed and disowning to know
me. Besides Mr. Oates hath been positive
in his testimony about the 21st of August, I
could not now have witnesses to disprove that,
because I knew, it not before, bat I can have
several witnesses to prove, that I had then
witnesses to prove it, sufficient witnesses from
Farnboroogh, who were sure and certain that I
was that very day there, and would instance in
some particular reasons why I was there tfiat
day. And then these witnesses will swear that
1 was never from thence for three months at any
distance, but twice at a neighbour** house, and
they can tell the place* where I was then.
ju C. J. You come and tell us what other
folks could tell, why have you not them here ?
can the jury take notice of this?
Marshal. I hope you will not throw away
my life, when, in three days time I could bring
witnesses to prove it.
£. Q. /. • Tbqn we most throw sway the lives
671} STATE TRIALS, 31 Chabl&s II. lG7l>.— 7Vwi tf&r George Wdteman, [07S
the 94th of Aprily that I conspired the lulling of
tbe king. Now I could prove the contrary of
that I thought, for I remember, and to ray friends
know very well, that I always in the spring
rime I go once or twice most commonly about
30 miles out of town, to take the air. So my
Lord, from that observation 1 did really be-
lieve I was actually there at tbat time ; and
from this belief I did then tell your lordship,
that I thought I could bring witnesses that
woold prove 1 was at that place then. Ac-,
cording to your lordship's order I sent for
tbe gentlewoman that kept the bouse, and she
coming up I asked her, Mistress, said I, can you
tell when I was at Tun bridge ; said she, I believe
you were there about or near April ; but that
, is not tbe thing, said I, I ask you, can yon po-
sitively say that it was either before or after
the 84th, can you give me any determinate cir-
cumstance of it. She could not swear, nor
durst, what day 1 was there exactly ; then, said
I, go back again ; for I resolved to die in my
innoceucy without proof, rather than my
witnesses should speak what was false or doubt*
ful.
Marshal. I desire tbat one Thomas Sumner
may be called. He was the man that went
down to fetch op tbe witnesses from Farnbo-
rough.
Recorder. What is your witness, Mr. Corker ?
Corker. My Witness's name is Ellen Rigby.
[who stood up.]
L. C. J. what is il you ask her ?
Corker. I desire she may be asked, whether
she knows tbat I was in tbe house when the
search was in the Savoy, wheu Mr. Pickering
was taken ? and whether they then charged me
or said I was the person that they had nothing
at all to do with ?
Marshal. And me the same.
L. C. J. Do you bear tbe question ?
Corker. Was not I in the Savoy when Pick-
ering was taken ?
Marshal. And I ?
Rigby. Yes, you were both in bed then.
Corker. Are yon ready to swear it if my Lord
will permit von?
Rigby. Yes. And the company that came
in never asked for you, but when they saw you,
said they had nothing to do witli you.
L.C.J. Wbosaidso?
Rigby. Tbe company that came and searched
• the house for Pickering.
L. C. J. Was Mr. Oates there?
igbv. Yes, my Lord, Mr. Oates was there.
L. C. J. Did he say that be had nothing to
say to them f,
Rigby. Several of them did say so, and be
among them. They asked me who were in the
house? I told them several. They said they
had nothing to do with any but Mr. Pickering.
L. C. J. Jforth. Who dad you tell were in the
house ?
Rigby. I told them there was Pickering,
Marsh, Heskett, Corker, Smaydon the porter
and his wife, two children, 6tc
Corker. Now il is incredible be shcxilolsearch
for traitors, and as he says knew us to be such
and should not ask for us: nay, when he saw
us, leave us there, and never bid the officer ssv
cure us.
Just* Pemberton. Who did ask yon the ques-
tion?
Rigby. There were &ve or sis, Mr. Oates and
Mr. Bedlow.
Corker. I desire to know this of yon, Have
you not beard all along that Mr. Stapkton is
President of tbe Benedictines, and how long he
hath been so, for she was housekeeper?
Martial. Who is President of the Benedic-
tines ?
Rigby. fllr. Stapleton.
Corker. How long hath he been so?
Rigby. Four years and a quarter, for any thing
I know to the contrary.
L. C. J. In his absence, who was ?
Rigby. I know not who.
L. C.J. Did not Corker officiate ?
R*8J9* Never ir his lile. v
L. C.J. Do you knr;w who did ?
R*&by. I can tell he did not.
Corker. Pray ask her if sbe knows of any
consult of the Jesuits in the Benedictine con-
vent?
L. C.J. How should she know that? wan
she one?
Corker. Because there can none come to tbe
house, but sbe must entertain ehem ; there wan
no other servant at all but sbe. ,
Marshal. Now, my lord, since the is here,
let her see Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow ; ask
her whether ever she saw theui in the house m
her life.
Rigby. I saw Mr. Oates in tbe home ; he
came a begging to Mr. Pickering for charity.
L. C. J. What was the time f
Rigby. This summer was twelvemonth; And
Mr. Pickering bid me shut the door, and never
ttt that man come in again.
Marshal. That was in the very heat of the
Plot the very nick of time when he was em-
ployed to carry on the conspiracy, as he says;
and that then we should suffer him to be in
such necessity ; and sent- away with a flea in
his ear, when he could gain such advantages by
discovering us : Is it likely that we should trust
him with the whole Plot, and yet suffer him to
want ? I appeal to your lordship nod the jury
whether that be probable ?
Then Sumner appeared and stood.
JL C. J. What say von to him ?
Marshal. I desire he may be askee* whe-
ther he does not know that here were witnes-
ses to testily I wet then at Facaborongb.
JL C. J. This is not a question to he asked
what another body can swear.
MarshaL He was sent down, my lord, to
fetch tbe witnesses up,
L. C. J. Well, to satisfy you, we will ask th*
question, though it be improper: Were you
sent do»o for witnesses?
Sumner. Yes, my lord.
L.C.J. Why did not they come ?
I
673] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chajllks II. 1679.— and others, for High Treason. [674
Simmer. They did come.
L. €- J. Why are they not here? The last
sessions was adjourned particularly to a certain
day, and you knew when you were to be tried.
Recorder. For this very reason, that all might
take notice of it, it was adjourned to the 16th
day at this place.
Marshal. Your lordship does suppose we
have a better purse than we have : Would you
have them leave their employments, and come
«ip, and be at great charges ? it is not in the
capacity' of every one to endure it.
L. 6. J. What would you have us do in
this case?
Marshal. What is but reasonable. Give me
but three or four days time, and I can have my
witnesses up.
Just. Dolbcn. I pray ask them whether they
were not told of the time of their trial r
X. C. J. Why did not you send for them be-
fore, when you knew what day it was to be ?
Just. Dotben. You knew as much before as
yoa do now. If you did not, what did you send
for them up for then, more than now ?
Corker, There was no certainty at all of the
tisne when we should be tried. We were told
it was near, but not the very day ; some said the
12th, some the 14th, some the 16th» some not
at all.
Recorder. You must not say so ; for notice
was publicly given here that it should not be
till the 16th, and the sessions was adjourned
till then.
Marshal. I was told it would be two or three
■days after last term. I confess God Almighty
hath been pleased to give me a long imprison-
ment to prepare for my last close. I do not
fear death, though it should appear in far more
frightful shapes, than that we may be like to
suffer. So, my lord, it is not so much concern-
edness for my own life, as for honour and
justice of the court, that I plead for a respite
to have witnesses that may positively and par-
ticularly disprove the testimony of Mr. Oates.
And all the world will think it an hard case
when I do attest and call to witness such as
have a great probability to prove what I say to
he true; when I can have such a numerous train
of witnesses to prove that I was that particu-
lar day threescore miles out of London, and
would positively swear it, if permitted. It will
be hard, and will, I fear, draw an heavy censure
upon this honourable court, if some time be
not allowed*
L. G J. It cannot be allowed you, for then
we must tie up the jury, and make them fast all
the rime.
Marshal. You may discbarge them of me.
JL C. J. We cannot do it now.
Just. Pembertort. There is no reason for it
new, for you had time for your witnesses be-
fore. What do you come here to make a great
harangue about witnesses which you had, and
did not bring them.
L. C. J. Did you know they would come
to prove, to any day ?
Marshal. I know they could prove such a day.
vol. VII,
L.C.J. Why then were they not here ? »
Marthal. Pray, my lord, give me leave. I
hope I shall not speak more than is reasonable
and just, and then I care not how it succeeds.
Every judge is as much obliged to follow his
conscience, as any formality in law.
L.C. J. Pray teach your own disciples, don't
teach us : You come and talk here what re-
gard we are to have to our own consciences, as
ii\ we did not know that better than any papist
or priest in the world.
Marshal. I suppose that, and it is rational
too. And I do suppose that, this bench is infi-
nitely just and merciful, and upon that suppo-
sition I plead. Then if there lie great reason
to believe that I can disprove Mr. Oates in his
positive testimony, then there is great reason
to believe that I can save my life. And if there
be reason to believe that I can save my life, I
suppose there will be more regard to this chan
to any formality of law. Be pleased to ask him
whether he were not to fetch witnesses that
could attest this.
L. C. J. What can you say ?
Sumner. I went down into the country fot
witnesses.
L. C. J. Why did you not bring them up
against this time ?
Sumner. I had no order for this time.
Marshal. We did not know when we should
be tried.
CL of the Peace. My lord, I did tell the mes-
senger when the sessions was.
£. C. J. Did the officers here acquaint you
when the sessions was ?
Sumner. I had order from capt. Richard-
son at first, I did ask leave to go down to fetch
his witnesses; says capt. Richardson, you have
'order to do what he shall direct, to provide him
his witnesses ; „ that was for the last, not for
this.
£. C. J. How far. were the witnesses off?
Sumner. Threescore miles.
L. C. J. Why, you have had notice long
enough of your trials, to get up witnesses three-
score miles.
Recorder. Capt. Richardson, Did not you
tell the prisoners when their trials would be ?
Justice Dolbcn. Tbey had all notice of the
sessions by the adjournment, and should have
provided for it.
Capt. Richardson. Ever since the last ses-
sions they have all of them had the permission
of any people to come to them in order to the
preparing for their trials.
L. C J. As when ?
Capt. Richardson. As for this sessions. .
L. C. J. First you did know that the ses-
sions did begin on Wednesday ; if you had pre-
pared yourselves against Wednesday, you had
been delayed but for two days.
Marthal. But how could I prepare wit-
nesses for that which I did not know would be
testified against me ?
X. C. J. Why did you prepare them for the
last trial? why had you not the same witnesses
you had then ?
2X
G75] STATE TRIALS, 3 i Charles II. 1079.— Trial of Sir Georg: Wakeman, [670
Marshal. Because it was opon somewhat
he had said upon my taking, that he saw me in
June and July, I did provide witnesses for it.
Justice Pmbcrtoyi. He holds to the very
day he said first, and this is but plain trifling.
X. C. J. Truly, if the merit of your cause
be no, better than such weak assertions, your
defence is but very poor.
Marshal. But that I humbly offer, is this,
whether you will believe I can have such wit-
nesses, and therefore stay till they be sent for.
Justice Dolben. We have no reason to be-
lieve you.
Justice Wyndham. We have no reason to
believe you, when you have had time to prove
it, and have not got them.
X. C. J. Why were they not here now ?
Marshal. My lord, I do give you a double
reason. Then, my lord, I offer this, that my
name is in no list, paper, nor narrative that
ever was put forth; and if I had been guilty,
as he says, would not ha have named me
amongst the other conspirators ?
X. C. J. No, I think he should nbt, it would
have given you notice, and too much opportu-
nity to have gone away.
Marshal. He gave me leave, when he left
me In my bed.
X. C. J. But yet for all that it does not
* prove your innocency. All people that are
guilty, do not run away for it, for you have
abundance of priest-holes, and hiding-holes.
Well, have you any more witnesses? if you
have, call them.
Corker. Call Alice Broadhead [hut she did
not presently appear;] then I desire Mrs. Eliz.
Sheldon may be called; [Who being in the
gallery, answered and came down.]
Marshal. I do desire to know whether she
knows who is president of the Benedictine
Monks ?
X. C. J. Who is president of the Bene-
dictines, mistress?
Sheldon. Mr. Stapleton.
X. C. J. How many years hath he been ?
Sheldon. A great many years, my lord, to my
knowledge.
X. C. J. How many ?
Sheldon, four or five years.
Recorder. Where is Dr. Oates ? call hiro.
L. C. J. But if he were absent did not Mr.
Corker officiate io his place ?
Sheldon. Never, my lord.
Corker. Mr. Stapleton was actually at Paris
when I was there, and therefore I could not
officiate in his stead ; there is another that can
^ testify the same, that is Alice Broadhead, [Who
appeared then.] Pray ask her the same ques-
tion.
X. C. J. Who is president of the Bene-
dictines?
Broadhead. Mr. Stapleton, I have known
him for many years, and there hath not been
for a great many years any other.
' • Corker. Then I do desire that I may ob-
serve this, That Mr. Oates doth seem to ac-
cuse me positively of nothing, but only of con-
senting to the Benedictines contribution of
6,000/. which he says they could not do with*
out my. leave, because I was their president;
but 1 have brought three witnesses which v say,
and are ready to swear, that Mr. Stapleton is
president, was so these many years, and I never
was so in my life.
Recorder. Here is Dr. Oates again now*
[But he was not examined.]
X. C. J. Have yon done now, all three f
Sir G. W. I say, my lord, I find that it was
imputed to me, at least as a sin of omission*
that when I was before the council,. I did not
sufficiently detest, and abominate, and abhor
this crime that is laid to my charge. I now
detest, abhor, and abominate the fact charged
on me. I call God to witness I never was in
any consultation about it in my life, I never re-
ceived any bill for any money upon this ao»
count, nor did ever receive any money.
X» C. J. Had not you 2,000/. ?
Sir G. W. No, my lord, I wish I may never
enter into the kingdom of Heaven, if I received
one farthing for any such thing.
Corker. He says, that I was employed in
distributing monies ; and I profess before God>
I never distributed any money upon such ac-
count ; all that I had was an annual annuity
which I gave amongst the poor. I protest be-
fore God, I never in my life did deliver or hold
it as a matter of faith or commendable doc-
trine, that it was lawful for the promoting of
the Catholic religion, to murder the king, or'
destroy my country. Ai/d I renounce and de-
test it from the bottom of my soul. • And this
is all can be expected from a good Christian
upon that account ; and I hope the jury will
have no prejudice against me for that ; and
neither Pope or any breathing upon earth can
dispense with me from that obligation.
Marshal. And if no door can be opened
for a merciful sentence upon any consideration
offered by the living; at the loud cries of the
dying* I hope there may ; and all the earnest
vows, and all those solemn protestations of in-
nocency by such as were lately executed for
the crimes we stand here charged with, left be-
hind them as sacred testimonies of their loyalty
and un violated faith to the king. And I beg
leave to put before the eyes of this honourable
court, and this whole assembly, this landskip
of horror, wherein may be seen those caves of
darkness, those, baths of glowing sulphur, such
men must be eternally judged to be condemned
unto, if what they then spoke had not the cha-
racters of the fairest truth found instamped
upon it. Now if a right survey be taken of
this landskip, and it be well observed what
these men so solemnly signed and sealed to
with their last breath, it roust be confessed
they either conspired finally to damn their
own souls, or were not conspirators against the
king, nor were they guilty of what was charged
upon them. Present conteut, where the en-
joyment is like to continue, works with a strong
influence upon human nature, and chains it
fast to the present world. But, my lord, with
€77] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chailes II. 1679.— on* others, for High Treason. [678
the approach of death, reformation of con*
science does offer to advance, and we da ob-
serve those who have lived a very ill life, fre-
quently to make a good end ; bat, my lord, it is a
thing scarce ever beard of »r known, that those
who have lived all their lives weli, should die
ill. Nor can such as were looked upon while
they lived as persons of much integrity, great
candor of spirit, and unquestionable truth in
all their attestations, dying, should become
prophase to blasphemy, become irreligious
even to sacrilege, and false even to the worst
of atheism. My lord, this cannot readily be be-
lieved, or easily imagined ; nor will be, though
it be possible ; and yet all that will not believe
this,. must own an innocency where guilt is so
strongly supposed. And if there be 'great cause
to doubt whether those that were lately exe-
cuted, and were supposed to be leaders in this
conspiracy, were guilty upon the considera-
tion of those solemn dying protestations they
have made to the contrary ; I humbly conceive
it may be much more rationally doubted, whe-
ther others brought in only by the by, as I am,
as a letter-carrier, and only as marginal- notes
so tbe great conspirators, may not wholly be
innocent. Now, my lord, if no credit be to be
given to the protestations of men dying, that
have ever been judged sober and just; how can
faith be reposed in the testimony of such living
persons as know no God nor goodness ? And
if the reputed just man at the very point of
death can be judged rationally false in his pro-
testations, though death be in his eyes, and hell
threatening to inguiph him ; may not he, my
lord, wjio hath owned himself a villain in print,
be thought false in his testimony, while pre-
ferment tickles him, rewards march before him,
and ambition beckons to him, which he greedily
follows, though God and conscience tell him
it is unjust ?— England is become now a mourn-
ful theatre, upon which such a tragedy is acted,
as turns the eyes of all Europe toward it j and
the blood which hath been already spilt, hath
found ajchaonel to convey it even to the re-
motest parts of the world. And though it in-
spires different breasts with different resent-
ments, yet it may speak a language that none
who are* friend* of England will be willing to
understand. Our present transactions here,
are the present discourse and entertainment of
foreign nations ; and without all doubt will be
chronicled and subjected to the censure of en-
suing ages. Now, my lord, I have great rea-
son to believe, that not any one of those ho-
nourable persons that now sit judges over us,
would be willing to have their names writ in
any characters, but those of a just moderation,
of a profound integrity, of an impartial justice,
and of a gracious clemency. And though we
would not be all thought to be well-wishers to
toe Roman Catholic religion, yet we would be
all thought friends to religion ; and though we
exclaim against idolatry and new principles of
faith, yet we all stand up for old Christianity ;
whereas if the testimony of living impiety be
applauded and admitted of, and the cries of
dying«honesty scoffed at and rejected, what
will become of old Christian] tyi And if any
voice, cry, or protestation of dying men may
pass for truth, and obtnhi belief, where is now
our new conspiracy ? The question now seems
to come to this, the belief of Christianity now
in Roman Catholics, and the appearance of
their innocency, are so fast linked together by
those* solemn vows and protestations of their
innocency, made by the late executed persons,
that no man can take up arms agaiust the lat-
ter, but must proclaim war against tbe former.
Nor can our innocency bleed, hut our Chris-
tianity must needs by the same dart be wound-
ed. Nor can any tutelar hand stretch. itself
forth
L. C. J. North. You speak ad faciendum
populum, and should not be interrupted, but
only I think you lash out a little too much.
Marshal. .1 speak this to add the testimony
and solemn vows of the dying, to what we say
living for cur own defence. And I desired
they may be put in both together, and weighed
in the scales of an impartial judgment. Now,
my lord, I say, the question seems not so much
whether Roman Catholics are conspirators, as
whether indeed they be Christians. Nor is it
the great doubt now whether they designed to
kill the king, but whether they believe there is
a God. For whoever grants this last, tbe be-
lief of a God, of a Heaven, and an Hell, aud
considers what asseverations they made at their
death, what solemn protestations they insisted
upon, does with the selfsame breath proclaim
them innocent.
Justice Pembcrton. But Mr. Marshal, will
you go on to affront the Court in this manner,
to vouch for the truth of their speeches, which
they .made at the gallows, and affirm them in*
nocent after they have been found guilty, and
executed according to law ?.
Marshal. My lord, I do not avouch them
innocent, I only desire there may be conside-
ration had, and that the words of such dying
men may be thought of. If they did believe
a God and a judgment-seat that they were go*
ing to, could they be innocent and Christians
too?
L. Q. J. I was loth to interrupt you be*
cause you are upon your lives, and because it
is fit vou should have as much indulgence as
can be allowed. Your defence hath been very
mean, I tell you beforehand ; your cause
looked much better before you spoke a word
in your own defence, so wisely have you ma*
naged it.
Recorder. But really for your particular
part, Mr. Marshal, you abound too much in
your flowers of rhetoric, which are ail to no
purpose.
Manhal. I hope it would be no offence to
insist
L. C. J. But I will tell you, and I will be
heard as well as you, Sir ; because of the prates*
tations of these men, which you make so much
a stir about. If you had a religion that de-
served the name of a religion, if you were uot
079J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— IHaio/Sir George JVakeman, [G*l
AMtJe up of equivocation and lying, if you had
no. i.dulgences und dispensations for it, if to
kill king* might not he meritorious, if this were
not prnted and o*ne>], if your popes and all
your gre.it men had no: avowed thi*, you hud
said something; but if y-ui can have absolu-
tions either tor money, or because you have
advanced the C -(holi-: cause as you call it, and
can he made saints as Coleman is supposed to
be, tl>e<e i« an end of all your arguments.
There is a God, you say, and you think we
shall go ro that God because he hath given us
the power, we can let ourselves in and turn the
key upon heretics. So that if they- kill a king,
and do all the wickedness they can devise,
they *hall go to heaven at last ; for you have a
trick, either you can directly pardon the killing
Of a king, or if you excommunicate him he is
no king, and so you may kill him if it be for
the advancement of religion. But it will be in
vain f<>r you or any priest in England to deny
this, because we know you print it and pub-
licly own it, and nobody was ever yet punished
for any such doctrine as this. Therefore all
your doings being accompanied with such equi-
vocations and arts as your religion is made up
of, it is not any of your rhetoric can make you
be believed. I do believe it is possible for an
atheist to be a papist, but it is hardly possible
for a knowing Christian to be a Christian and
• Papist. It is hardly possible for any man of
understanding, setting aside the prejudices of
education, to be a Papist and a true Christian,
because your doctrines do contradict the foun-
dations of Christianity. Your doctrine is a
doctrine of blood ano^ cruelty, Christ's doctrine
is a law of mercy, simplicity, gentleness, meek-
ness and obedience ; but you have nothing but
all the pride that ever a pope can usurp over
princes : and you are filled with pride, and mad
till you come again, in to the possession of the
tyranny which you once exercised here : inso-
much that it is strange to me, but that princes
abroad tluuk you more conducing to their poli-
tic interest, else sure they could not endure
such spiritual tyranny to lord it over their souls
and their dominions. Therefore never brag of
your religion, for it is a foul one, and so con*
trary ta Christ; that it is easier to believe any
thing, than to believe an understanding man
may be a Papist. Well, Sir, if you have any
more to say, speak it. You have provoked me
to this : and indeed I ought to do it, because
you have so much reflected on the justice of
the Court : but if you have any thing to say in
your defence; speak it, or to your own parti-
cular case. As for your religion, we know
what it is, and what merciful men you are :
and if we look into the bottom of you, we
know what you were ever since queen Mary's
days: and if we look into the Gunpowder
Treason, we know how honest you are in your
Oaths, and what troth 'there is in your words,
and that to blow up King, Lords and Com-
mons, is with you a merciful act, and a sign of
a candid religion ; but that is all a story with
you ; for it ii easier for you to believe, that a
saint, after her head is cut off, did go 3 miles
with her head in her hand, to the place where
she would be buried, than that there was-*
Gunpowder Treason. [At which the, people
gave a shout.]
L. C. J. North. You must not meddle any
more with the speeches of those that died.
Marshal. I did not intend, my lord, to call
any thing of justice in question.
L. C. J. What, do you think we will be
imposed upon in this manner f Perhaps you
have tricks enough tougull your own party, but
you have not to deceive Protestants ; they can
look through all your arts ; nay, I never saw
such men of weak parts, as your priests gene*
rally are ; so that I wonder you should have
any disciples but billy women, or men without
learning.
Marshal. If we were guilty of this conspi-
racy, we should gull only ourselves. -
L. C J. Go you on with one harangue, I
warrant you I will give you another ; you shall
not be hindered to say any thing that is perti-
nent ; but this is not at all so. We have a
bench of aldermen have more wit than your
conclave, and a Lord Mayor that is as infallible
as your Pope. Have you any thing more to say
for yourselves ?
Marshal. It is not proper to contradict
your lordship, but it is a wonder you should
know our religion better than ourselves ; for I
know not Of any such doctrines owned amongst
us.
L. C. J. No ! then I believe you have not
read your own books ; I suppose that your bu-
siness is not now to read, but to seduce silly
women or weaker men. What, don't you pub*
Jish them all over the world ? Is there any In-
dex expurgatorius, into which you have put
these .doctrines ? Surely you know not any
thing, if you know not this.
L. C. J. North* If you have any thing mora
to say in the proper defence of your trial, pray
speak it now.
Corker. As to those damnable doctrines,
we profess ourselves innocent of them. I de-
sire that the Jury may not go upon such a
prejudice, that 1 entertain such principles of
religion, as matters of my faith. They are
i horrid crimes, I protest against them, and own
them not. I desire the jury to take notice of it.
Marshal. I have this further to offer to your
lordship, that Mr. Bedlow owned before the
Lords that he knew no more to be guilty than
he had declared, and amongst all those I ami
not named ; and this was a month or six weeks
before I was taken.
Justice Pemberton. There; is no such thing at
all proved here, or given in evidence, and there-
fore why do you insist upon it ?
Marshal. In this I appeal to the know-
ledge of your lordship : and if you know it, I
hope you will be pleased to acquaint the jury
with it.
L. C. J. I do not know for my own parttca*'
lar, what answer was made; I was not in the
House/ nor do I know it.
681] STATE TRIALS, 31 ChaM.es II. 1679— and othmjor High Trea$o*. [OSS
Judges' None of os know it.
Marshal. I desire the worthy jury to take
notice, that among all the persons named, there
is no such name mentioned as mine.
Justice Pembcrton. There is no such thing
proved here.
Marshal, They deny all the Lords' Records.
L. C. J. Well, have* you done ? Look you,
gentlemen of the jury.
Marshal. I desire but one word: These
things I have insisted upon as, far as I can for
myself; but the main matter I relied upon was,
that Mr. Oates did not know me, neither as to
my celling, conversation, words nor actions.
He can bring no person, man nor woman, that
ever saw him in my company, nor took notice
of our meeting together, nor Bed low neither ;
he can name no place where he.saw me, none
but the Savoy, against which no proof can be
found. And then at the searching of the house,
I desire the jury to take notice, that at that
tune he disowned us, and said he did not know
vs. A sufficient rational cause cannot be given
why, he should say now be knows me, and did
not then take me.
Justice Pemberton. You have said all this
before.
Marthal. Then, my lord, for a conclusion,
I have been told, and 1 will only desire the jury
to take notice of it, that every jury that finds a
man guilty of death, upon the testimony of wit-
nesses that come in against him, do take it so-
lemnly upon their consciences, that what such
witnesses swear is true.
L. C. J. That they* believe they swear true :
For we have no infallibility with us : It is one
thing to say it is true, and another thing to say
we believe it is true. Look you, the jury may
give a verdict that is false, and yet go accord-
ing to their consciences. Do you understand
that, priest ?
Justice Pemberton. You need not teach the
jury what they are to do. '
Marshal. But considering in case an oath
be false, and the jury ltave reason to doubt
what the prisoners say in their own defence,
upon what they hear or have learned of their
own knowledge, if they find such doubt
grounded upon that double matter, then they
are in great danger to bring the fault to their
own doors, and make the crime of perjury their
own.
Justice Pemberton. What, do you go pver
things again and again ?
L. C. J. All this signifies but little ; if you
had Popery here, you would get but little by it.
We should hardly part with our Peter Pence
ibr all your speeches. We all know what
things are, it is not a parcel of words patched
thus together, will do your business.
Marshal. I wish all thoughts were as open-
faced as ours are.
L. C. J. Look you, gentlemen of the jury,
here are four prisoners ; as to one of them, that
» Rumley, the truth of it is, there is but one
witness against him, and by the law there
ought to be two ; so I cannot say, but you
ought to discharge' him : we do not find that
there is testimony sufficient, according to the
law, to condemn Jura, and therefore you ought
to acquit him. As to the rest, here is sir
George Wakeman, Mr. Corker, and Mr. Mar-
shal ; there hath been two sorts of evidences
given, I will repeat them as well as I can, and
as short as I can. There hath beeu a general
evidence, and a particular evidence : there was
a general evidence given by Mr. Dugdale, of
the Plot in general, and by Mr. Praunce, and
something of intimation by Mr. Jennison*
These of Dugdale, Praunce, and Jennison, do
not mention so much as the names of the three
gentlemen that are upon their lives; but I will
tell you why it was necessary, and answers a
great objection that they seem to make : for
you are to believe men, say they, and to be-
lieve men upon probable circumstances, some-
thing to guide you besides the positiveness of
an oath ; and that is well enough said: Now
here is something besides, and that is the^lot ;
that there was a conspiracy to introduce po-
pery, by the likeliest means, which was to kill
the king ; and that such people as these men
were to do it. Now that there was such a ge-
neral design to do it, is a circumstantial evi-
dence, (as to these men I call it so.) , And
these are circumstances whjch may answer the
objection tbey make, when they say, You are
not to give credit to positive oaths without any
thing to govern you by; for you have this to
govern you by, besides the oath, that there was
a Plot. •
The testimony of Mr. Jennison does go
more particularly to the business of Ireland,
which I would observe, by the way, for the
sike of that gentleman that stands so much
upon the innocency of those men, and would
have them to be believed upon their own as-
sertions,, because he says they dare not die
with a lye in their mouths. I believe it is no-
torious enough, Mr. Jennison that comes here
is a man of quality, and one against whom
there is no objection, and he is justified by od<
or two more. He says, he saw Mr. Ireland th(
19th of August, when he, to his death, too?
upon him to aver be was then in Staffordshire
and brought several of bis own religion, wb
would outface it to the court, that he kef
them company so many days, and was in tl
country all the while. There was a mai
before this, that came and testified that she sa
freland, and saw him at his own door,
August, but this gentleman comes and proi
it upon him more ^particularly, and tells y
when, the day of the week, and of the moil
that he was with him at his own lodging, t
night he came from Windsor, that he '
pulling off his boots, and pretended to d
post from Staffordshire, and so that he wl
Staffordshire is true, because he tame th&
post, but he hath always constantly denied*
he was here, and that may serve for the**
grity even of their dying oaths. And yo*
not going, according to your own doctrb*^
immediately to Hell, I hope you *upf*
6S3] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \G19.—Trudof&ir George Wakemenr [OSi
purgatory, where you may be purged from such
peccadillos as this of dying with a lye in your
mouths.
As for the testimony of. the particular evi-
dence, first, against sir George Wakeman, Mr.
Oates says he saw a letter subscribed George
Wakeman ; and it was writ to Mr. Ashby, and
therein, among other expressions, was this par-
ticular, That the queen would assist him to
kill the king. He was asked, How he knew it
was his hand ? He said, He had never seen his
hand before, but afterwards he saw him wri-
ting, (as he thinks, writing,) in a writing pos-
ture, and there he looked upon that paper
when he was gone from it, while it was wet,
and that, character, to his thinking, was just
the character of the letter. Now 1 must ob-
serve this to you. First, Supposing it to be
true, yet it is somewhat hard, for a man that
had never known a man's hand in his life, to
see a band to-day, and some time after to
come and see his hand to a bill of physic, and
to recollect the character so much backward,
as to know, this is that, or that man's hand
that I saw before. It is one thing to know
bands we are used to, but it is another thing,
if we see a hand we never saw before in our
lives, and then by reflection at another time,
and by comparison of hands to say this is the
same, that is hard ; but that is supposing it to
be true. Sir George Wakeman, as all people
will that are accused, does deny the fact, and
says there was no such thin^. Against him be-
sides, he says he saw, in a book that the Jesuit
priests kept among them of their transactions
nod affairs, he saw, in Harcourt's chamber, a
book; wherein was writtei:, this day, (and there
was a certain day in August named, but he
cannot tell what day,) this day agreed with
sir G. W. for 15,000/. to which he consented.
Aud under was written, Received 5,000/. part
of 15,000/. by order of Mr. Coleman. George
Wakeman. This he says he saw, and he be-
lieves that to be the very same hand he saw
before, so it is by a comparison of hands. He
does not charge sir George Wakeman, to the
best of my memory, with any positive things
of his own knowledge, more than as I tell you
of this matter.
Sir R. Sawyer. Yes, my lord, he. says he saw
bis commission.
L. C. J. Indeed he does say, he saw a cora-
njssion in his hands, to be physician -general of
h*e army that was to be raised. And that he"
enied 10,000/. and would have 15. The
•uth I leave with you, gentlemen. Look you,
ttitlemen, we will show ourselves what we
tght to do, let them he as they, will; we
>u)d not, to prevent all their Plots, (let them
as big as they can make them) shed one
, >p of innocent blood, therefore I would have
i, in all these gentlemens cases, consider
oosly, and weigh truly the circumstances,
the probability of things .charged upon
D. There is an additional evidence against
George Wakeman, by Bedlow : he says he
3iim have a note for 2,000/. which was
said came from the queen, there were dis-
course *> of doubtful words, but whether they be
plain enough to satisfy your consciences, when
men are upon their lives, I leave to you. That
sir George Wakeman should say, Are you
ready (or me ? Why am 1 drilled on thus, in a
matter of this concern ? This he would have
to imply the poisoning of the king; but there
is but one thing that sounds any thing plain to
the matter, and that was this, said he» If they
miss (speaking of killing the king) if they miss
at Windsor,' and you miss your way, then it
shall be done at New-Market. This he did
swear directly, and then sir George Wake-
man replied, He would be ready. Now if you
believe this, then there are two witnesses
against sir George Wakeman, for the matter
or the bill alone would do nothing, but
when be says he. saw such a bill, it must ba
for something ; and if he did say so, If they miss
killing him at Windsor, aud you miss your way,
we will do it at New-Market i and he replied,
I will be ready, the thing is made plain ;. I
leave it to you ; and this is all the evidence
against sir George Wakeman, as I remember:
I'hope my brothers, if they remember more,
will repeat it to you. 1 cannot undertake to.
repeat every word ; I remember so much as is
material, and my brothers I hope will help uie
out, in what they have better observed.
As to Mr. Corker, Oates says, that he saw a
letter under his hand, tuat i*, his name, I sup-
pose was to it, w hi rein he consented to the
raising the 6,000/. which wa* to be ruined out
of the Benedictine estates, and v*;\s *n order to
the carrying on of tins Plot. 1 d.» not rind tl*at
he doe» prove that he did know Mr. Corker's
hand. And he says of biui further, he was their
president, and so it was reces-;»r» to have his
consent for the raising the 6,000/. aud parti-
cularly he says, that he did except against Pic-
kering's being designed for the murdering of
the king ; for, said he, He is a man that waits
at the altar, and methiuks you should choose
some filter person. For that, says Mr. Corker,
which he says, that I was president ; I was not
president ; and he makes it necessary for me
to set my hand, because I being president, it
was supposed it could not.be done without me:
and Dr. Oates does intend such a thing by bis
enforcing of it too : but be does produce to
you two or three witnesses, that do say, Mrs
Stapleton hath been president for four or five
years ; and said he, If I were not president,
what needs all this ado about my consent ? So
he contradicts him in that particular, that he.
was not president, and it is not only a bare im-
material thing, because his being president
made his band more necessary to the raisins;
the 6,000/. And for that matter of his saying,
that lie did except against Pickering, and they
might have chose another, he does not charge
him to be actually at the consultation, but he
says he knew of it, because he said Pickering
was not a fit man (o do it. And he said, they
had better choose a layman. He proves no
feet, but only these words. And Mr. Bedlow
GS5] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— and others, for High Treason. [CSC
Me, they have almost undone themselves ia
their own defences, by making weak observa-
tions,, and insisting upon trivial thingi ; impro-
per for tbe Court to hear, and impertinent for
them to urge. But I deal faithfully with you, I
will discharge my own conscience to you. It
lies upon the oaths of these two men. Though
there was a Plot in general proved} yet that
does not affect these men in particular, but was
only used to answer that objection, that it
should not be believed upon positive swearing,
hand over head, without something else. Here
was something else, the Plot* in general, and
their being priests, is another circumstance to
me, who are mad to bring in popery, and would
do any thing to get their tyranny again estab-
lished amongst us. And there is more than
probable evidence of that I assure you.
Sir Tho. Doleman did indeed say Mr. Oates
was very weak, so that he was in great confu-
sion, and scarce able to stand ; weigh it with
you how it will, but to me it is no answer. I
tell you plainly, I think a man could not be so
weak but he could have said, he saw a letter
under bis hand. It was as short as he could
make an answer, and it is strange 'that be
should go and make protestation that he knew
nothing. And so I pray you weigh it well.
Let us not be so amazed and frighted with the
noise of Plots, as to take away any man's life
without any reasonable evidence. If you are
satisfied with the oaths of these two meiTj so,
I have observed to you what objections they
make for themselves, and those objections are
material : What sir George Wakeman says
about his not accusing him before the council,
and what these men say that he did not appre-
hend them. And it is very strange, they should
have so little knowledge, and so little acquaint-
ance with Oates and Bedlow, and so great a
matter as they speak should be true. And it
is well enough observed, that he was a beggiug
there ; it is very much that such a man should
know of such a great design on foot, and they
should use him in that manner. These are the
things that I remember, worthy of your consi-
deration. These men's bloods are at stake, and
your souls and mine, and our oaths and con-
sciences are at stake ; and therefore never care
what the world says, follow your consciences ;
if you are satisfied these men swear true, you
will do well to find them guilty, and they de-
serve to die for it: If you are unsatisfied, upon
these things put together, and they do weigh
with you, that they have pot said true, you will
do well to acquit them.
he speaks against him, and what he says is
rather les9 than what Oates says. For it is,
that he talked with La Fevre the priest about
the Plot in general words. It may be, he was
talking with some body else, and yet he could
hear that they talked together in general about
it. That is all against him.
Against Mr. Marshal, it is rather less than
against Corker, that is, that he did consent to
the 6,000/. that should be raised among the
Benedictines, he being a Benedictine too, and
chat he (ook exceptions against Pickering, as
Corker did, that it was not convenient to em-
ploy him in killing the, king. And this is that
Oates says, and that he was a carrier of letters
up and down, and a factor that way. And
Bedlow says, that he knew that he carried let-
ters, and was at the consult whe^e they were
read and answered, and when they asked him,
Where? He said, At the Benedictine convent
in the Savoy. And names in particular, a let-
ter to sir Francis Radcliff^ and that there was a
discourse concerning the plot, in his hearing.
Ibey say for themselves, they cannot answer
any more than by circumstances,' it is a very
strange thing, if Dr. Oates knew this of us, why
did not he take us before ? And says sir George
Wakeman, Why did not he accuse me of this
letter tbat he talks of, before the king and coun-
cil ? He makes an answer (which to me indeed
is a very faint one) at if he were so weak and
tired, that he could not speak any word farther.
When the council asked sir George Wakeman
what be had to say for himself, and he behaved
himself ruggedly, they call for Oates again,
What, said they, ' do you know any thing of
* your own knowledge ?' No, said he, God for-
bid ; I know nothing more ; as sir Philip Lloyd
says, and as the matter speaks : For if he had
charged him that he had seen that letter, the
lords would infallibly have committed him.. If
he had but said, I saw a letter with his name to
it, which by the character I believe was his, be-
cause I saw his writing elsewhere : And it is
wonderful to me ; I do not know, if a man be
never so faint, could not be say, I saw a letter
under his hand, as well as, I knew nothing
more of him ? There are as few words in one, as
in tbe other. If he ha'd said, I beg your lord-
ships or his majesty's pardon, I am so weak I
cannot recollect myself, it had been something;
but to make a great protestation that he knew
nothing of him. This is that that is said by sir
Philip Lloyd, on his behalf.
These other gentlemen say, that Oates did
not know them, and the woman does say, that
she did tell them, when they came to search,
that Corker and Marshal were there, and Dr.
Oates and they said, they had npthing to do
with any but Pickering. They make answer
now and say, that they had no commission to
take any but bim. But it is strange inched, if
they were there, and they did see them, that
they did not apprehend them. For what de-
fence they make about what talk was had at
the Gate- house, it is all contradicted by sir
William Waller. And indeed, if it were possi-
Bedlow. My lord, my evidence is not right
summed up.
L. C. J. I know not by what authority this
man speaks.
CI. of Or. Make way for the jury there;
who keeps the jury f
[Then an officer was sworn to keep the jury :
The judges went off the bench, leaving Mr.
Recorder and some justices to take the Verdict.
And after about an hour's space the jury re-
6S7] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial qf Sir George Wakeman', [68S
-turned, and the foreman • coming up to the
table, spoke thus to Mr. Recorder.] .
Foreman. Sir, the gentlemen of the jury de-
sire to know, whether they may not find the
prisoners guilty of misprision of treason?
Recorder. No, you must either convict them
of high- treason, or acquit them.
Foreman. Then take a Verdict.
CI of Or. Gentlemen, answer to your names,
•Ralph Haw trey.
Uawtrey. Here, &c.
CI. of Cr. Gentlemen, are you all agreed of
your Verdict?
* Onines. Yes.
CI. qf Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omnti. Our foreman.
CL ofCr. Sir George Wakeman, hold up
thy hand. [Which he did J Look upon the
prisoner. How say kjrou, is he guilty of the
high-treason whereof he stands indicted, or
Not Guilty ?
Foreman, Not ^Guilty.
Capt. Richardson. Down on your knees.
Sir G. Wakeman, God bless the king and
the honourable bench."
And in like manner were the other three ac-
quitted. After the Verdict .was recorded, the
Court adjourned 'till 5 in the afternoon.
Some Observations upon the late Trials of Sir George Wakeman^,
Cor keb, and Marshal, &c. By Tom Ticklefoot, the Tabourer,
Jate Clerk to Justice Clodpate.
Tna Reader may perhaps wonder why 1 I be observed, that Corker fell into peat unde-
sbould wave the employment of clerking to a
•Westminster Justice, who seldom are ef the
wisest, and turn minstrel ; but upon serious
thought she will respect ma for my Integrity, and
-give greater frith to what I shall offer now ; for to
say the truth, the methods of my former life were
BO vil)ainous, in order to my calling, as I could
m> longer dispense with them ; for I was forced
to inform my master's worship of all the bawdy-
bouses within his district, which by that means
were all set under contribution, and out of their
compositions for enormities I had poundage,
which was all my subsistence, for his worship
engrossed all the warrant-revenue to himself;
so I grew of late melancholy, through the failing
of trade, the private misses driving all before
them, that public sinners are now of all people
the most miserable ; so I retired some time be-
fore my master's death: in which retirement, as
barbers have nothing to do, learn to play- on the
cittern, I got a stroke upon the pipe and tabor,
by which means I now live very comfortably;
yet willing to give the world a taste of my old
offioe of clerkship, I have made these foll6wing
-observations :
The first part of the trial was spent in the
examination of Dugdale, Praunce, and Jeoni-
«on, to prove the Plot, so to obviate the com-
mon objection that it was unreasonable to be-
lieve two men against so many, upon bare tes-
timony, without other circumstantial evidence,
that was done with such notoriety, as satisfied
all unprejudiced persons : among other things
it was proved, by an undeniable witness, Mr.
Jennison, corroborated with notable circum-
stances, that Ireland died with a lye in his
mouth ; as by consequence sir John Southcot
and his lady live with the same veracity, which
my old master would have made another kind
of use on than was made : then were some fine
harangues about it, to answer some objections;
yet nothing was reduced to practice in the case
•during that part ef the trial j in which- the pri-
soners were bat remotely concerned* It may
cencies of passion against the witness Dugdale;
an argument of guilt, my old master would have
said ; yet no inferences nor reproofs upon it.
Now I have given a short, yet true account of
what was but preliminary to Wakeman's, and
^their trials, I shall go on. Doctor Oates proved
that Wakeman refused 10,000/. as too little for
poisoning the king ; which he termed so great
a work, and afterwards did undertake it for fire
thousand more, as it was written down in the
entry-book, kept sometimes at Wild-house,
sometimes at Langhoru's chamber. And fur-
ther, as appeared by the said entry-book, there
were 5,000/. paid in part, and a receipt sub-
scribed George Wakeman, which by a compa-
rison of hands, was sworn to be sir George's
hand ; which sir George shifted off by the help
of an apothecary, as he thought well enough ;-
yet granting the apothecary to say true, which
is questionable too, for they are often slippery
chapmen, especially considering former re-
lations, and future hopes; and Oates to swear
true, which no wise man wiH dispute, there
might be two letters, which sir George would
slur off, from the improbability of writing two
letters to one thing, and gravely bids the jury
take notice that he writ but one letter; he might
with the same modesty have advised them not
to believe a word against him ; yet little notice
taken.
The improbability of writing two letters to
one thing, seemed to weigh something with the
Lord Chief Justice; though not so with Jus-
tice Pemberton, who said) It might be so, to
serve a turn very well.
It was proved likewise by Dr. Oates, that
Wakeman had a commission to be physician-
general to the new army ; which my Lord Chief
Justice had like to have forgotten.
Amongst other matters, Bedlow deposed,
That sir George Wakeman came into Harcourt's
chamber in a chafe, and told him, he knew not
whether be should go on or no. Harcourt went
to his cabinet, and took out a bill, and asked
C69] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1 61 9. —and others, for High Treason. [690
sir George if be was ready ? Sir George said
he was, and had been long since, but they were
not punctual with him ; but what have you
there? a bill for 2,000/. at your service,
replies Harcourt. Which bill sir George
accepted, and afterwards told Becflow, that the
goldsmith had allowed of it, and would pay him
in the afternoon. When Wakeman objected,
it was not likely he should discover so great a
secret upon so small an acquaintance^ Bed low
replied, ne would have a hundred times more,
if Harcourt had but told him he was his con-
fidant, as he had done then. Wakeman ram-
bled out into a passion, and swore that he never
saw him in all his life : yet fiedlow made it out
by circumstances, that he had taken physic of
him at the bath ; and that acquaintance he
did not deny, but called hiiu rogue, &c. Be-
fore the prisoner called his witnesses, it may be
observed, that the Lord Chief Justice said,
that Bedlow, the second witness, said no ma-
terial thing against Wakeman, but only some
circumstantials about a 2,000/. bill ; but had
not said for what, only some things about the
queen, his lady and mistress.
Sir Robert Sawyer replied, under favour, and
began to sum up Bediow's evidence ; so the
Lord Chief Justice seemed not pleased, and
answered. What is all this ? Call Mr. Bedlow
spain. To whom he made a godly speech
about innocent blood, and bade him give his
evidence anew ; who gave what is above said.
Sir George replied, What if the queen had
given me 2,OOo/. for my service done her, is
that any harm ? I have deserved it, I am sure,
for nine years service ; yet a little before he
made a protestation before God, he never saw
Bedlow ; a likely matter, as if an absolute
stranger should come to the knowledge of such
a money-circumstance, and agree in the sum
too. Bedlow went on, and swore, that Har-
court said to sir George, This must be well fol-
lowed, and closely observed ; because much de-
pends upon it : For if we should miss to kill him
at Windsor, or you miss in your way, then we
will do it at Newmarket. The Lord Chief Jus-
tice made Bedlow repeat the words again;
which he did, only interposing [which we hope
yon will not.] The Lord Chief Justice replied
very modestly, he says now quite another
thing ; but was contradicted by the Lord Chief
Justice North, the Recorder, and sir Robert
Sawyer, and submitted to it most christianly.
Then Bedlow went on, and swore, that sir G»
*Wakeman, in his hearing, declared his con-
sent; and that it was One entire discourse :
Upon which the knight, as well he might, said
to the prisoners, Then is my business done ;
and be had been a true prophet, if either wit or
honesty bad exercised a due dominion over the
jory. Now if my old master Clod pate had been on
the bench, he would have hung hard upon that
expression, as also upon sir George's allowing of
2,000/. to be paid for wages j he would have
swaggered it, and have said, This is not to be
said to os that know the methods of the Court,
sever to pay so much wages at a time, they al*
VOL. VII.
ways instance suchy sums; you might, however,
have brought some other authority besides
yourself, which can deserve no credit here*
when it is clear by all circumstances you invoke
God to witness to a lye, about your never seeing
Bedlow, within these ten minutes.
Against Corker, Oates deposed, That he saw
his patent from Rome to be bishop of London ;
that he was privy, und did consent to Lang*
horn's proposal to the Benedictine monks, to
advance 6,000/. towards carrying on his design,
his consent being necessary, because he was
president ; and that Corker should say further,
that he curried on the design under the disguise
of bestowing the queen's charity; and that he)
did except against Pickering, being chosen to
kill the king, being that a mere layman was
more proper. Mr. Marshal was charged with
the same thing, and that Marshal went half
with Conyers, who laid a wager that the king
would eat no more Christmas pies.
Bedlow deposed further against Corker,
That he bad heard him discourse about raising
an army, but' nothing positively to the murder/
of tbe king. Bedlow accused Marshal much
about that rate ; but Marshal not being shy of
his lip-labour, fell to impertinent questioning
him about his knowing him ; bnt was confuted
(but not at al) ashamed in his lies) by sir Wil-
liam Waller, who was sworn in the case ; but
Marshal, with a company of soft words, would
have persuaded sir William that he forswore
himself; the priest surely loved to hear him*
self prattle, to spend so mach time in tbe wast-
' ing of his credit, about a thing which was not
of a farthing concern, true or false t Then he
asked Bedlow, whether he had ever seen hhn
before he was taken ? Who said, at the Savoy.
Then with an unfteard of impudence he repliedj
He would be content to be hanged, if Bedlow
could prove that he was ever at the Savoy
Bedlow, tboughjie had none by to prove that*
as perhaps he would have been in the same
case if he had been to have proved himself ever
to have been in Westminster Hall, as the Lord
Chief Justice intimated ; yet he did it by a
sufficient circumstance, when he gave sir Wil-
liam Waller directions where to search
for the gun that was to have killed the king ;
which was found accordingly. This is now the
snbstance of what the prisoners, Wnkcman,
Corker, and Marshal, were charged with : The
other, Rumley, had but one witness against him ;
so went off on coarse. Sir George now called
his witnesses; the chief was Chapman the
apothecary, of which I have given a former ac-
count. Then was his man Hunt, and Elizabeth
Henningham, called, who talked at the apo-
thecary's rate ; so that Oates was not at all
contradicted by them, but they might both say
true, and that the Chief Justice told them.
Then sir Philip Lloyd was called upon by sir
G. Wakeman, to adjust what Dr. Oates should
say at the Council-table ; who said but not
upon oath, that when sir George was called in
before the council, and told of his accusation,
he utterly denied all, and did indeed carry hiap
2Y
691] STATE TRIALS, 5 1 Charles II. 1679.— Trial tf Sir George Wakeman, [G9t
•elf, as if he were not concerned at the accusa-
tion. Then Oates was called in, to tell what
he knew further; for as yet he had given but a
hearsay evidence (as my old master used to
term it), he replied with lift up hands, God for-
bid (for I must tell truth, says sir Philip Lloyd,
let it be what it will) that I should say any thing
against sir George Wakeman ; for I know no-
thing more against him. Oates replied, He
knew nothing at all of this. Sir George tri-
umphed, and cried, This is a protestant witness.
Now had old justice Clodpate, my old master,
been upon the bench, he would have taken up
the knight, and told him, he had given a very
officious testimony; for he was to tell only what
Oates said at that time, and not to pretend to
•kill in physiognomy ; for he was not mealy
mouthed, but would upon occasion have talked-
his mind to knights, or any body, and would
have said further, It appears to me, and may ap-
pear to any body else, that this knight has as
great a kindness for sir George as for truth, and
have bidden the jury observed accordingly ; he
would not have left there neither, for he would
have said, Admit sir Philip says true, and that is
as kind to him as can be, what would sir George
infer, That Mr. Oates is now tied up iti his evi-
dence I By no means, for the case is no more
than if a man be brought before a justice of
peace tor stealing a cow, and that witness makes
a solemn protestation, that he knows no more
against him : yet afterwards, upon his arraign-
ment, swears to a horse too ; in another biliof
Indictment, the former asseveration is attested
by his worship's cierk, quare, whether that will
quit him for the horse, or ought to be so much
as heard in a Court ? Besides, here has been
• late judged case, White bread and Fen wick's,
the jury was withdrawn for want of full evidence,
afterwards one of the short evidences came to
•wear home, and was admitted, the prisoners
Found Guilty, and executed accordingly; if that
was right, as no question it was, because prac-
tised, as I have been informed, it must be much
more in the right now to admit of Oates's fur-
ther testimony, for the council-table is no court
of Record/ as this is.
Sir Thomas Doleman was called in for Oates ;
who said, that Oates at that time was in great
disorder and confusion, and as feeble as ever
he saw any body in his life, so as he believed
he could not give any body a good answer ;
and further said, that Wakeman was called in,
and gave his answer, at which the council was
amazed ; for he did not in his opinion deny it
so positively as ouje that was innocent could,
but shuffled matters off with expressions of the
great loyalty ami services to the crown of him-
self and family, and required reparation for iu-
jury done. It seems sir Philip and sir Tho-
mas had different sentiments about sir George's
mien. When sir Thomas Doleman had done.
sir George, unbidden, fell into a repetition of
what be had said at the council table in his de-
fence ; which resolved only into a telling what
a good subject be had been for the king, what
work his brother made at Worcester; how
bis father lost 18,000/. estate for the king,
how he was in a plot for the king, was taken
at his apothecary's, some arms found in the
cellar, carried to prison, and in much dan-
ger of being hanged : and how his family was
mighty instrumental in the saving of the king,
as colonel Gifford, his cousin Carlos ; and that
the Pendrels were menial servants to the fa-
mily.
Then Corker wa6 called ; who began with a
florid discourse reflecting upon the witnesses,
that they had been men of scandalous lives, and
that there was no Plot ; which he flourished off
as well as he could, but not to any reasonable
satisfaction ; then he came to trifling about go-
ing to Lambspring in Westphalia, and such other
small matters ; but at last* he said, he was not
president of the Benedictines ; which was ma-
terial, had it been well proved, for it' obviated
Mr. Oates his accusation of consenting to the
6,000/. as president. Then Marshal was called
to say for himself; who made a great pother
about a white spot under his periwig, and sir
William Waller's ordering him to put it off; and
many inferences he would have made; and
then made a great stir about witnesses that
could have come within three days, and many
other things to no purpose. Then Corker called
his witness, Nell Rieby, to prove that he was
in the Savoy when Pickering was taken ; and
that Oates and Bedlow did know so much : She
likewise averred, that Stapleton was president
of the Benedictines, and Corker never offici-
ated as such; and that she saw Mr. Oates once
in the house, who came a begging to Mr. Pick-
ering for charity, and that was in the midst
of the Plot, as was made out by circumstance;
from whence Marshal inferred, It was not likely
they should trust him with any thing of that
nature, and suffer htm to want. This now
must be a new contrivance, for it would have
been set up before in Pickering's Trial, had
there been any thing of truth in it. I now won*
der that none from the bench set upon that
bitch-fox, to run down fier testimony ; for al-
low that to be true, the Plot is non-suit, Semel
tnsanivimus omnes ; my old master would bare
clawed the three-penny baggage, and told her
her own, and likewise have broke her credit
with the jury, by the circumstances, that it
was never. before offered; a thing that they
could not be so careless in, had the thing been
true. Now Mrs. Sheldon was called to prove
Stapleton president of the Benedictines; who
accordingly did so. Then Alice Broadhead did
the same.
Then Dr. Oates was called again, but never
examined ; he is wise that can tell why, with-
out somebody was afraid he should have cleared
the point, as it was formerly in another case
about Mr. Howard's son.
Then the court asked them, if they had done
all three ? Sir George Wakeman feil to a de-
testing, forswearing, and abominating the plot,
and that he never bad a farthing for any such
thing; Corker much at that rate; and Mar*
shal made aa harangue, that, had it net been
603} STATE TRIALS, 51 Chau.cs II. \G19.—<md others, for High Treason. [GQ4.
for my Lord Chief Justice North, I believe
would have lasted till uow ; it was all full of
protestations of die innocence of the executed
persons, which were full? answered by the
Chief Justice Scroggs; who after some little
tfifliog velitations with the priests, summed up
the evidence. In the first lie proved, by Mr.
Jennisou, as has been hinted before, that Ire-
land died with a lye in his mouth.
Now a man would wonder what he should
urge that for, unless to infer, That if dying men
in their last breath would lye, why should liv-
ing persons be believed under their circum-
stances? Especially when a jury is free by the
law to do what they will without blemish in the
case.
Then the Chief Justice goes on, and sums
up Oates his evidence against Wakeman ; which
Jus lordship, leaving or forgetting all the mate-
rial points, makes only circumstantial : till sir
Robert Sawyer put him in mind of his commis-
sion, seen by Oates, to be a physician to the
new army; and then his lordship goes on, and
allows that, as likewise that be refused 10,000/.
and would have 15,000/. to do the work ; but
with an unusual sweetness leaves the truth with
the jury, and then falls most religiously into a
declaration against shedding innocent blood:
which lie did so pathetically, as no man would
judge him to be the son of a father who, as
moderns say, was not very scrupulous in that
point.
Then be goes on to Mr. Bed low's evidence ;
and though he sums it up a little short, yet he
makes him a second witness against Wakeman
if the jury will believe him. Now considering
these [Ifs] were never put before, why the
devil should they now, would old Clodpate
have said ; and so say I, Tom Tickle-foot.
And then the Chief Justice prays the bench
in aid, if he had forgotten any thing material.
Then his lordship was pleased to say, the
evidence against Corker was not full, so as to
prove any* fact, but only some words ; and that
he was not president of the Benedictines, his
lordship affirmed from the testimony of three
Aingstinks, without any manner of hint to the
jury that they were not upon their oaths. The
charge against Marshal, his lordship said, was
ratter less than against Corker ; and so accord-
ingly lightened it, as became him.
Then he comes to sir Philip Lloyd's testimo-
ny, wbicb he laid as great a stress upon as it
would naturally bear ; and, so as to invalidate
any farther testimony against sir George Wake-
Ban, his lordship was pleased to name sir Tho-
mas Doleman's evidence, but with so little res-
pect, as he might have as decently let it alone :
And to invalidate Oates his testimony further,
he takes notice that he was begging, without
intimation to the jury of any probability of the
matter, which must utterly destroy Mr. Oates
for the future ; for nobody that believes that,
can believe any thing he says of the Plot. And
then, after a pious . exhortation to the jury to
take care of innocent blood, he concludes, tell-
iflg them, that if they believe Oates and Bed-
low, they may do well to find the prisoners
guilty; otherwise not. v
Bedlow charged the Chief Justice, for not
summing up his evidence right; who only re-
plied, he knew not by what authority this man
speaks. I shall only make this observation
upon bis lordship: In all former trials he went
on without the least hesitation, or running the
same over again, as he did not in this; especi-
ally about the concern of innocent blood : but,
by all that is good, it was my old master Clod-
pate's disease, peace be with him ! always to
sham up an evidence when any body had been
with him the morning before.
About an hour after the jury returned, and
brought them in Not Guilty; but, accord-
ing to their abundance of want of understand-
ing, enquired whether they might not bring
them in guilty of misprision, or no ? Now could
such a thing come into their politic pates, had
they understood what the word meant? For
that implies a knowing o(f but not consenting
to, a treason. Now there was no manner or
colour for such a thing; for the evidence was
full, if they believed them, as to absolute trea-
son; if not, why would they think of any thing
' but acquittal ? But it may be they knew not
the force of the word, which led them into that
error ; I am sure that is their best plea; other-
wise they must yield themselves to be great be-
trayers of their nation, and lay under a damn-
ed suspicion of being foully practised upon;
especially if that be true that runs about in
coffee-houses, That a gentleman that went out
amongst them had a sealed paper of fifty gui-
neas thrust into his hand.
They say in the north, That a jury consists
of eleven fools and a knave: Now those of the
south, as being more refined wits, are of a
nobler consistence, as having more of the
knave in them ; for bad they had a mind to
have examined matters, and not barely to have
acquiesced in outward appearance, they might
have considered, that Oates and Bedlow did
not swear by practice, like the boys of St.
Omers, from this circumstance, That Rumley
bad but one witness against him. Now had
hanging, and not truth, been the designed
matter, how easy a thing had it been for cap-
tain Bedlow to have agreed with Dr. Oates,
and made up two witnesses against Rumley, is
obvious to every considering capacity, and
might have played such a prank formerly to
have served a turn, when they were listed
amongst the pope's mamalukes.
It is no small wonder, I confess to Tom
Ticklefoot, that nobody from the bench nor
bar hinted that circumstance; my old master
Clodpate would have been hanged before he
■would have missed such a barn door.
I am more particular in this, to the end that
circumstance of their not combining, may in*
duce juries for the future to look upon them as
men that swear only according to the dictates
of truth, notwithstanding the sham tale of the
doctor's begg'og at Pickering's.
TRI4L3i
To the foregoing Pamphlet, there was published the following Answer:
The Tickler Tickled ; or, the Observator upon the late Trials
of Sir George Wakeman, &c. observed. By Margery Ma-
son, Spinster. London: Printed for A. Brewster, 1679.
Let nobody wonder at this attempt, as an
argument of overweening, when so many of
our sex are become statists ; but I being no-
thing concerned at other ladies actions, will
only give the reader, as introductory to my
observations, a short account of my own life.
J was placed with a beautiful lady of great
quality about court, as superintendant of
ber Limbeck, Preserving-pans, and Washes ;
by which means, I became the chief confident,
as being privy to all her intrigues. My lad?
past off her youthful years pleasurably enough
both to herself and me ; for the fresh lovers
that flocked daily (to whom my lady was
never hard hearted) were free of their money,
both to herself and servants; but when my lady
became a little superannuated, and was forced
to send ambassadors to her former idolaters,
the case, (as to money) came to be quite alter-
ed ; so we lived upon the spoil, but yet pretty
even and even; but her ladyship at last came
to give boots, then there was no longer abiding
for me ; so I thought fit to retire whilst I had
koine money and beauty left; so accordingly
did, into Chancery-lane, turned sempstress :
where
•
— shop I keep for countenance
i" ■ is my sustenance. Chancer.
Sot
And now having a litle knack jn book learn-
ing, I diverted myself this dead vacation time
with reading and comparing the late trials, with
the observations of captain Ticklefoot, (for
why not captain Ticklefoot as well as captain
Bedlow?) They indeed are too unmannerly
upon the chief magistrate,. for it lays matters
too open ; they are likewise so rude upon the
ladies that came to attest the truth, as it is not
at all suitable to the generosity of a chevalier,
for to. treat a lady of Mrs. Ellen Rigby's qua-
lity, with the name of bitcb-fox, and three-
penny baggage,is not at all urbane. There were
some indecencies about the other gentlewomen,
which are not worth our confutation ; so now I
will modestly, as becomes our set, examine the
whole matter.
The detractors indeed do say, which I can-
pot help, if I was to be hanged, that my Lord
Chief-Justice's carriage did not seem even, as
not at all quadrating with the former trials.
The only way to judge whether the detractors
be rogues or no, is to lay down matters fairly,
as they were transacted in Wakeman's trial,
and compare them with parallel cases in the
trials of the convicted persons. But before I
fall into the main business, I must have the
other fling at captain Ticklefoot, who is too
severe iu reflecting upon a descent there; I
suppose be hath some British blood in him,
and had a knight to his ancestor, or is akin to
somebody that is akin to a lord, be would
have bad more wit else, than to have objected
against any body what is not in his power to
help, he might have remembered that worthy
saying of Cicero, I had rather be the first than
the last of my family ; as likewise the brave
atchievemeots of that great man, how he ran
down a plot in his consulship, backed by so
many of the Patricians, and chief nobility, nay,
Caesar himself was not free ; it was so backed
as the rebels were able, upon discovery, to dis-
pute the matter by arms : yet that mushroom
orator, that man of no images, by his owa pro*
per virtue brought it to light, and the traitors to
punishment, notwithstanding that great abet-
ting. Or, he might have remembered, had he
read authors, what that great capt. Caiua
Marius said in his oration to the people of
Rome, when he stood candidate for general in
the Jugurthian wars, when his want of nobility
was objected against him : * Nobilitatem certe
4 peperisse melius est, quam acceptam coru-
' pisse ;' (for Padge hath a smack at Latin, but
let them English it that will.) And I think my
Lord-Chief- Justice has done his part as to every
thing till of late ; and whether well or no, now,
is to be enquired into by circumstances. In
the trials of Whitebread and his fellows, when
the sixteen witnesses were brought over from
St. Omers, to prove Oates in a lie about the
time of the consult, bis lordship, I must con-
fess, animadverted very sarcastically upon
them, by saying, their testimony was alike to be
believed, though not upon oath, as if they had
been sworn, because they are of a religion that
can dispense with oaths, though false, for the
sake of a good cause. And then reflecting
upon the nature of the men, he goes on very
floridly, and tells the jury, That they are pro*
selites, and young striplings of their church,
which does indeed, in one respect or other,
abuse all her disciples, and keep them in a
blind obedience to pursue and effect all her
commands : And then going on, says of the
witnesses, That ihey were young boys sent tor
hither on purpose to give this testimony; and
though it be no fault in the prisoners to send
for what evidence they could ; but it is very
doubtful and suspicious to have such green
« and flexible minds thus employed; and I must
leave it to you ; meaning the jury, to consider
how far these young men, trained in such prin-
ciples, may be prevailed on to speak what is
not true.
And then, after bis lordship had done what
became him by running down the school-boy**,
607] STATE TRIALS^ 31 Charles II. 1079 and others, fat High Treason. [698
evidence, he makes this as a natural inference,
" That they cannot want witness to prove what
they please ; for I believe there is none of them
all will make any bones of it."
It cannot be said, I must confess* that there
was any such pains taken to ruo dowu the cre-
dit of the gentlewomen that came to invalidate
Oates's testimony, upon the account of their
religion, or of their sex, very prevailable upon
to speak what often is not true ; for the urst
was never so much as hinted, nor so much
neither as that they were not upon their oaths,
which there was great care takea for in the St.
Outers' boys. I must confess, my lord's treat-
ing Mr. Oates about the witness Nell Rigby, is.
a wonder to me ; for his words are so plain,
that they imply he has lied all this while, and
is to be believed no more. " It is well ob-
served," says he, " that he was a begging
there;'1 viz. at Pickering's, formerly executed.
" It is very much that such a man should know
of such a design on foot, and they use him on
that manner;" and concludes, " that that
amongst other things was worthy considera-
tion." My lord was pleased to gallant Mrs.
Sheldon and Alice Broadhead at the same rate,
by allowing their tale, though it was in the ne-
gative, that Mr. Corker did never officiate as
the president of the Benedictines, which made
Dr. Oates's evidence ineffectual. I must not
forget, amongst all, my lord's great compliment
to the city, whiqh it may be pleased some as
much as the verdict did please others ; "We have
a bench of aldermen," says he, " have more
wit than the conclave, and a Lord Mayor that
is as infallible as the Pope." Now if all these
things put together deserve another name than
fair practice, I, poor Madge, cannot help it.
P. S. But to come to the point ; here are
three men indicted for no less than high treason
(for Rumley is to be omitted, the proof against
him being justly allowed to be imperfect) one,
for having undertaken, for a base reward of
money, to have poisoned a great monarch, his
lawful prince and sovereign ; a king, and con-
sequently, by virtue of his office, sacred in his
person, as being elevated to the high dignity of
a God upon earth by the affirmative of never-
erring scripture itself: a crime so enormous, so
void, to set religion aside, of those common
dictates of heathenish morality, that it was
never sa remarkably violated till Judas and the
murderers of his father tadght the way ': A
crime to have been committed against a ma-
jesty so mild, so tender of enforcing conscience,
so indulgent, that he frequently dispensed with
the rigor of his own laws, to mitigate their pu-
nishmeut ; interposing in hopes uf reclaiming
them, between them and the violent prosecu-
tion of an incensed parliament. And yet, for
all this, mercy itself must be assassinated or
poisoned. What can we think, but that men,
who dare attempt such, ungodly massacres upon
the holy person of a God upon earth, would
pot stick for donble the sum, to poison their
Creator himself, at the instigation of the devil,
his great adversary, were it within the verge of
their prostituted recipes ? But happy the gen-
tleman was under the bonds of confession.
And then, " Better that all the kings of the
earth should perish, than that the seat of con-
fession should be broken ;" as Binetus the Je-
suit told the learned Casaubon.* Or else the
assertion of that other Jesuit prevailed with
him, who averred to the same Casaubon in
France, " That if Christ were again upon
earth, in a condition subject to death, and any
one should tell him that he had a desigu to kiii4
him, that be would suffer Christ to be murdered,
rather than reveal the confession f ." Since
then the crime was so considerable, and the
consequences of its being perpetrated, must
have proved so fatal to the nation, it cannot
well be thought that an under-sheriff alone was
a fit person to be the sole judge of the probity
and judgment of a jury that was to pass their
verdict upon a fact of so much weight, and so'
dreadful to the very thoughts of his majesty's
subjects in the issue of the success.
As for the other two, though their crimes
were not absolutely so great, yet were they
heinous enough ; they were both privy to the'
conspiracy, allowed it, fostered and encou-
raged it ; and were the raisers and contributers
of very large sums towards the carrying it on.
As for the proof of the indictments, it was
certainly as bright as summer sunshine ; it is to
be feared, too bright to dazzle the eyes of so
many mens' understandings. Then for the de-
fences of the prisoners, they were publicly al-
lowed to have been very mean, and that their
cause looked much better before they were
heard : which the jury, had they not beeu ad-
ders, might have heard ; for it was spoken loud
enough. For what signified all their procrasti-
nated endeavours to shelter themselves under
the scandals and reproaches which they threw7
upon the king's evidence ? A trick they had all
used, though not with the same success ; and
that is one thing that reason professes herself
to be puzzled at : For what had the king's evi-
dence done to render them more flagitious
than they were the former sessions I why to be
less credited than before? they had been as
deep in the Plot as themselves, it is true ; bot
they had reclaimed themselves from their dis-
loyalty, and by a seasonable discovery, had
ruined the villainous architecture of their trea-
chery; for which they had received the king's
pardon ; and so being rtcti in curia, were not*
to be canvassed by the foul mouths of those
that laid Sold of every rotten bough to save
themselves. And it was a hard case that they
should stand there as at a stake, rather to be
baited than examined: but suppose them
guilty of the luxuriant misdemeanours of the
age, what law is there in any nation that we
know of, that excludes an adulterer, an atheist;
a fornicator, or a drunkard, a proud or a covet*
— i-i • ■ ■■- ■ >
* Hennam Conringeus, De Rebus Publico!
totius Orbis.
f Casaubon in Respub. ad C. Terreq,
609] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1619.— Trial of Sir George Waktman, [700
ous man from giving bis testimony, either, in
criminal or civil onuses ? A man may love; wine
or a niittress, be vain in bis discourse, cherish
his avarice or bis ambition, yet loath conspi-
racy, disloyalty to his prince and treachery to
bis country. Vicious men are seldom guilty of
accumulated vice ; but setting aside the parti-
cular inclination of nature, are in other things
morally just and houest, religiously giving to
Cftsar that which is Caesar's, and abominating
the foot-steps of seemingly pious and s>ober vil-
lainy.
To reproach their need and exigency, was as
little to their advantage : For who, can any
man think,, would do the drudgery of a Plot,
carry letters and portmanteaus from place to
place, run from post to pillar, and be at the
beck of inferior superiority, but they who bad
not their fat benevoleuces aud rewards to sup-
port them? Surely they would not have had
the lords in the Tower have run upon their er-
rands. Neither could there be a greater symp-
tom of urging necessity, than for a inau to ac-
cept of money to murder his prince. Why did
not thev, that boast so much sobriety and sanc-
tity, make the discovery themselves, and put by
these flagitious witnesses from having the hand?
Very fine indeed !
" Clodius acensat Moech<
»
As if any but they who had been as flagitious
as themselves, could have ever discovered their
designs ! would they have bad the Protestants
divined them? would they have had an angel
from heavea have come on purpose to disclose
them ? or ehe would they- have had the evil
spirit of Brutus to have risen a third time ? no
certainly, they would not have had it revealed
at all : but because these persons did reveal it,
therefore they must be flagitious. Fulvia and
Sempronia, that revealed the conspiracy of
CataJine, were both courtesans, and yet they
that read the story, will not find, that either
Cicero the consul, or the Roman senate gave
the less credit to them for that. The Allo-
broges at that time were suppliants and peti-
tioners, and yet their information past. Thus
% far upon the supposition that they had been
men of a loose life or necessitous; but here
was no such thing : there was not any one of
their accusations or reflections that they could
prove against them. So that reason, in the
second place, admires why there was so much
* freedom allowed their lavish tongues ; or that
men should be so much moped in their senses,
to be carried away with such a slight stream of
false and proofless suggestions.
Such answers as these were not so remote
from the quick apprehensions of men of busi-
ness, but that they might easily have been
produced to defend the reputation of the king's
evidence, from the batteries of men in despair,
that verily believed their business had been
done, and therefore cared not what tbey said.
Certainly-some gentle constellation reigned that
day, more tender-hearted than moist St.
Swithin, or the weeping Pleiades; or else
mercy and compassion themselres had someu
^particular pique against truih, and ivere re-
solved to put an afFrout upon her. But alas !
Clemeucy had no hand in it. — The witnesses
were hirelings and impostors. — But now, Lassa
Crudelitas began to grow penitent, and to cry
Peccavi for her former severity, which will cer-
tainly be the construction of them that here^
after shall go to play the Causinus's with our
story.
The next plea of the prisoners was, That the
evidence were strangers to them ; and that they
had started a new charge; of which they de-
clared themselves utterly ignorant before the
council. A very strange thing, that the Ques-
tion should be all of a sudden, whether fami-
liarity should be necessary for the conviction of
such secret and grand delinquents ? This was
rather an argument of the truth. For what mo-
tive can any rational man propose, that should
induce persons unacquainted with the prison-
ers, and consequently, such as could not be
thought to have received any personal injuries
from them, out of a prepense and studied malice
to seek their blood? Hopes of reward.— But
that is a scandal that blasphemes the integrity
of that authority which gave the testimonies
countenance to prosecute : that impeaches both
the parliament and council, as if they were the
rewarders of people to take away the lives of
the innocent. They saw that. apparently there
was a plot, and that there was a design to take
away the king's life, and had as much reason to
believe the information of clandestine poison-
ing, as the private pistolling. But these wit-
nesses did know the prisoners, and had seen
them in the company of the conspirators, bad
heard them discourse together of the design it-
self, had seen the acquittance for receipt of the
money, and that by all die circumstances of the
discourse, the money could be paid upon no
' other account, than to, poison the king, wluch
' was the thing at that time intended, and the
thing then only spoken of. And this was cer-
tainly and most unanswerably a knowledge suf-
ficient of the persons, without any necessity
that the king's evidence should be any farther,
or more intimately acquainted with him. If a
man sees a thief break a house, it is not to be
conceived, that the witness should be con-
strained to go and drink a pot of ale, and enter
into a strict league of friendship with the felon,
before he can accuse him of the felony.
As to the other objection, That the charge
of the king's evidence was not so ample before
the lords of the council, as the bar of Oyer and
Terminer ; the answer of the king's evidence
was very fair and probable ; and the reasons of
his omission, \s ere credibly balanced in his be-
half, as the avctment against him. He was
sworn to be in a most weak and feeble condi-
tion, being tired by public and eminent service:
And how far the weaknesses of the body may
disorder the faculties of the mind, is not un-
known to vulgar experience.
It was enough he charged him at the bar,
charged him home, and backed bis charge with
701] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— md others, for High Treason* [70t
misses, that their tale should be so courteously
allowed that had neither head nor tail? Why
matters should be so ill managed, that the kings
witnessed shottld have occasion to complain,
that his evidence was not rightly summed up?
And wherefore for such a requisite piece of un-
mannerliness, he should be so severely checked
and frowned upon.
Lastly, What was the meaning of so many
foreign visits, which, upon what account so-
ever they were, were tnen neither prudently
nor warily admitted at that time ?
Now though the people ask these questions,
yet, they say, that many of them can answer
themselves ; or at least, that there are certain
Davids among them, that can unfold all these
mysteries: but they are so surly, that they
cry, They will take their own time; and so
they must, if there he no other remedy.
But what have these acquitted offenders got
by this excuse ? It is true, they are acquitted at
the bar of common trial, and so have saved
their lives; but they arestrll as guilty as ever,
before the tribunal of reason: so that, al-
though ttwy are let loose again into the world,
yet it is with that indelible mark of Gain, which
at length they will carry to their graves, after
they have only led a miserable 'life, rejected
from the society of all good men, that are lovers
of their prince and country.
a reserve of circumstances sufficiently con-
vincing; and therefore there was no necessity
to aggravate and prosecute such a prime ob-
jection to such an egregious height, as if it had
been done on purpose to throw disgrace and
shame upon desert, to make way for unsea-
sonable and untoward compassion.
This is not the judgment of a few, but the ge-
neral murmur and complaint, the general voice
of the people; for they are making their queries
in every cotfee- house, and cry, Why should one
man be banged for paying 5,000/. upon a trea-
sonable account, aurt another wan be acquitted
for receiving the same 5,000/., upon account of
the same treason? Why the same witnesses
should condemn the one for the payment, and
be rejected.
As to the receipt, seeing they swear as possi-
tively to the one as the other, why the memory
of man should fail at one particular juncture so
remarkably, as to leave out or forget the most
material points of the king's evidence ? Why
the bare allegations for the criminals should be
so lugged and caressed, and an oath of spotless
credit fur the king, looked upon as a mere in-
truder, and passed by wirh as little respect?
What necessity or provocation was given by
the king's evidence to be publicly upbraided
with beggery, upon the slighter tittle tattle of
an idle thing in petticoats; How there came to
be so much courtship used toward Corker's two
The Lord Chief Justice Scroggs's Speech in the King's-Bench, fh«
first Day of this present Michaelmas-Term, 1679, occasioned
by many libellous Pamphlets which are published against Law,
to the Scandal of the Government, and Public Justice. To-
gether with what was declared at the same time on the same
Occasion, in open Court, by Mr. Justice Jones, and Mr, Justice
DOLBEN.
I have bound over this man, Richard Rad-
ley, to his good behaviour, and to appear here
this day, for saying false and scandalous words
of me, which are sworn to by two several affi-
davits ; viz.
" William Lewis maketh oath, That on the
7th day of August, 1679, there being a dif-
ference between Robert Rayleit and Richard
Radley, we heard the said Richard Radley
•ay to him the said Raylett, If you think to
have the money you have overthrown me in,
go to Weal-hall to my lord Scroggs ; for he.
has received money enough of Dr. Wake-
nan for his acquittal. " Wit. Lewis/'
Jurat. 4 to die Sepxem.
1679, coram me,
Wm. Scroggs.
** Robert Raylett maketh "oath, That there
was a Trial at the last Essex Assizes between
him and one Richard Radley, where he re-
covered S9A i and ht happening to be at work
on the 7th day of August, 1679, over-against
the house of the said Richard Radley, the said
Richard Radley told him, If you expect the
money you have overthrown me in, you ma,y
go to Weal- hall ; for there is money enough
come in now. " Hob. Raylett. "
Jurat. 4to die Septenx.
1679, coram me,
Wm. Scaocgs.
First, I would have all men know, that I am
not so revengeful in my nature, nor so nettled
with this aspersion, but that I could have-passed
by this and more ; but that the many scan-
dalous libels that are abroad, and which reflect
upon public justice, as well as upon my private
self, make it the duty of my place to defend
one, and the duty I owet to my reputation to
vindicate the other.
And having this opportunity, I think this the
properest place for "both. If once our coem
of justice come to be awed or swayed by vulgar
70S] STATE TKIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— Trial if Sir Geprgi Wakemm, [704
noise, and if judges and juries should manage
themselves so as would best comply with the
humour of times, it is falsely said, that men
are tried for their lives or fortunes; (hey live
by chance, and enjoy what they have as the
wind blows, and with the same certainty : the
giddy multitude have constancy, who condemn
or acquit always before the trial, and without
proof.
Such a base, fearful compliance made Felix,
willing to please the people, leave Paul bound ;
who was apt to tremble, but not to follow his
conscience. The people ought to be pleased
with public justice, and not justice seek to
please the people. Justice should flow like a
mighty stream ; and if the rabble, like an un-
ruly wind, blow against it, it may make it
rough, but the stream will keep its course.
Neither, for my part, do I thiuk we live in so
corrupted an age, that no man can with safety
be just and follow his conscience: if it be
otherwise, we must hazard our t safety to pre-
serve our integrity.
And to speak more particularly as to sir
George Wakeman's Trial, which I am neither
afraid nor. ashamed to mention, I know that all
honest and understanding men in the kingdom
(speaking generally) are thoroughly satisfied
with the impartial proceedings of that trial,
taking it as it is printed ; which was done. with-
out the perusal of one line by me, or any friend
of mine. Though, by the way, I wonder by
what authority that arbitrary power was as-
sumed, to forbid any friend or mine the seeing
of it, before it was put out. However, as it is,
I will appeal to all sober and understanding
men, and to the long robe more especially,
who are the best and properest judges in such
cases, as to the fairness and equality of that
trial.
For those hireling scribblers that traduce it,
who write to eat, and lie for bread, I intend to
meet with them another way, for they are only
safe whilst they can be secret; but so are
vermin, so long only as they can hide them-
selves. And let their brokers, those printers
and booksellers by whom they vend their false
and braded ware, look to it; some will be
found, and they shall know that the law wants
not power to punish a libellous and licentious
press, nor I a resolution to execute it.
And this is all the answer is fit to be given
(besides a whip) to those hackney- writers, and
dull observators, that go as they are hired or
spurred, and perform as they are fed, who
never were taught.
If there be any sober and good men that are
misled by false reports, or by subtilty deceived
into any misapprehensions concerning that
trial, or myself; I should account il the highest
pride, and the most scornful thing in the world,
if I did not endeavour to undeceive them.
To such men therefore I do solemnly declare
here, in the seat of justice, where I would no
more lie or equivocate than 1 would to God at
the Holy Altar. I followed my conscience,
according to the best of my understanding, in
all that trial, without fear, favour, or reward,
without the gift of one shilling, or the value of
it directly or indirectly, and without any pro-
mise or expectation whatsoever.
This I say to honest men, that know me not,
if any that do know me needed tins, tbey should
not have had it, for tbey use me ill ; he that
knows me and doubts, so long thinks it an even
wager, whether I am the greatest villain in the
world or not ; one that would sell the life of
the king, my religion, and country, to papists
for money : and he that says great places have
great temptations, has a little, if not a faltf
heart himself; for no temptation is big enough
for a sin of this magnitude.
I would not have the papists now make any
false conclusions from what I say, That because
I reprove the insolence of some men's tongues
and pens,concerning this trial,they should thence
infer they have not had,or at least cannot expect
fair play, because some foolish men cry out
of their acquittal, and think there is no justice
where there is no execution. They have had
fair trials, and some that have suffered have
had the ingenuity to confess it ; and they shall
still be tried according to the evidence, and the
probability and credibility it carries with it.-—
But this I must say, be that thinks there is no
Plot, is blind with prejudice, or wilfully shuts
his eyes. The priests and Jesuits had a design
to root out the Protestant religion, and bring in
popery, and that is directly to overthrow the
fovernment ; and to effect this, that they would
ill the king. Were there no more, their doc-
trine and practices go very far to prove it ; and
he that says the contrary is as much out, as
where in a printed pamphlet he too confidently
-asserts, that in all their papers that were search-
ed, there was not one ill letter found, or any
thing that was suspicious. Coleman's letters,
and the letter found amongst Harcoort's papers,
will never be answered ; not by saying, tnat a
meeting so exactly appointed, with all cautions
imaginable (as not to appear too much about
the town, for fear of discovering the design,
which in its own nature requires secrecy), that
this was only a meeting to choose an officer. —
And yet to affirm, that this is not so much ae
suspicious at least, is a confidence, that the in-
genuity of a Jesuit only will undertake to own.
However, in the mean time, the extravagant
boldness of mens pens and tongues is not to
be endured, but shall be severely punished : for
if once causes come to be tried with compla-
cency to popular opinions, and shall be inso-
lently censured if they go otherwise, all public
causes shall receive the doom as the multitude
happen to be possessed ; and at length every
cause shall become public, if they will hut
espouse it ; at every sessions the judges shall be
arraigned, the jury condemned, and the verdicts
over-awed to comply with popular noise, and
undecent shouts.
There are a sort of men, I doubt, that too
much approve and countenance such vulgar
ways, and count it art and stratagem, that em-
brace all sorts of informations, true or false,
3
705] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— <mdothert,Jbr High Treason. [706
likely or impossi Me, nay, though neverso silly
and ridiculous, they refuse none : so shall all
addresses be made to them and they be looked
on as the only patrons of religion and govern-
ment, though they should have hut little of the
one, and would maintain the other only so far
as their own share in it comes to.
These, Sir Politics, (if such there are) de-
ceive ' themselves as much as they do others,
and are not what they imagine themselves to
be, with understanding and honest men ; no
not with those they think they gull neither, for
they use them to serve their purposes as they
think they serve others, and' if ever time shall
serve it will prove so.
Let os pursue the discovery of the Plot, in
God's name, and not baulk any thing, where
there is danger of suspicion upon reasonable
grounds; but not so over-do it, as to shew our
zeal : we will not pretend to find what is not,
nor stretch one thing beyond what it will bear,
to reach another : nor count him a turn-coat,
and not to be trusted, that will not betray his
conscience and understanding, that will not
countenance unreasonable boldness, nor believe
incredible things, lest we fall iuto what we just-
ly condemn in the Papists, cruelty, and vain
credulity : such courses cannot be the result of
honest intentions, but shrewdly to be suspected
rather a cJisguise, in pursuing orie villainy to
commit another. - For mv own part, without
any other meaning or reservation whatsoever, I
freely and heartily declare, I will never be a
Papist nor a rebel ; but will, to my power,
suppress Popery as an open enemy, and faction
as a secret one.
No act of oblivion ought to make us to for-
get by what ways, our late troubles began,
when the apprentices and porters mutinied for
justice, in their own sense. And though I am
morally certain, that no such effect will follow
as did then, yet the like insolence ought not to
be suffered for the example past and to come.
The city of London, I mean the lord mayor
and aldermen, and generally all men of value
and worth there, I think in my conscience, are
at this day as loyal and religiously disposed to
defend the king and the government, and main-
tain the true Protestant religion to their utmost
as any former age whatsoever carl shew ; and I
know the king thinks so too, and is therefore
really and heartily as kind to them. And
therefore, though our jealousies may be many
our fears need not be so : for whosoever they
are that design disturbances, and public dissen-
tions, for orivare ends, will find they are rather
troublesome than dangerous : and the greatest
mischief they will be able to effect, will be upon
themselves. In short, it is the proper business
of this court and our duty that sit judges here,
tn take care to prevent and punish the mischiefs
of the press.
For if men can, with any safety, write and
VOL. Til.
print whatever they please, the Papists wilLbe
sure to put in for their share too : So that what
between them, and the factious, and the mer-
cenaries that write for him that hires, and for
what they are hired, we shall he infected with
the French disease in government, and be over*
run with lies and libels ; which agrees neither
with Englishmen's honesty, nor courage, who
were wont to scorn to say what they durst no*
own.
Mr. Justice Jones.
We have a particular case here before us, in
a matter of scandal against a great judge, the
greatest judge in the kingdom, in criminal
causes ; and it is a great and an high charge
upon him. And certainly there was never any
age, I think, more licentious than this, in as-
persing governors, scattering of libels and scan-
dalous speeches against those that are in autho*
rity; and, without all doubt, it doth become
this Court to shew their zeal in suppressing it.
I am old enough to remember (and, perhaps,
feel the smart of it yet) the beginning of the
late rebellion (for a rebellion it was, and de-
serves no other name.) I know it had the fore-
runner of such libels, and scandals against the)
government, as this is ; and it followed almost
to the subversion of the happiness of the king-
dom. As for the trial hinted at in this affidavit,
I was not present at it myself, I was detainee)
by my usual infirmity, so that I could not at-
tend that service ; nor indeed have I read the
relation of it in print, so considerately as to
give a judgment upon it: But I am very con-
fident, (upon my knowledge of the integrity of
my lord, and the rest of my lords the judges
that were there, for there were all the chief
judges, and almost all my brothers) that that
trial was managed with exact justice, and per-
fect integrity, by them.
And therefore I do think it very fit, that this
person be proceeded against by an information,
that he may be made a public example to all
such as shall presume to scandalize the govern-
ment, and the governors, with any false asper-
sions or accusations.
Mr. Justice Dolben.
I am of that mind, truly ; and am very glad
we have lit upon one of the divulge rs of these
scandals. I was present at that trial, and, for
my part, I think the scandal to my- lord chief
justice was a scandal to us all that were there;
for if he had misbehaved himself in such a man-
ner as some have reported, we had been
strange people to sit still and say notjiing, or nol
interpose to rectify wherein he did amiss : And
therefore I desire this man may be proceeded
against, for an example to others.
May 29, 1080, this Richard Hadley was con-
victed of speaking scandalous words against the
lord chief justice Scroggs, and fined 800/.
2Z
wn
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1079.— TWol tf Charto Kerne, [70»
254. The Trial of Charles Keiin
Treason, being a Romish Priest
ON Monday the 4th day of August, Charles
Kerne was brought to the bar, and being ar-
raigned, he pleaded Not Guilty to the Indict-
ment: Then the Court (after the usual for-
malities performed) proceeded to the trial as
follow eth.
. CI. of Arr. Gentlemen of the jury, Look
upon the prisoner, and hearken to his cause.
Vou shall understand that he stands indicted by
$he name of Charles Kerne, late of the parish
of Weobly in the county of Hereford, gent.
For that he being born within the kingdom of
England, the 29th day of April, in the 31st
year of the reign of our sovereign lord king
Charles the 2nd, by the grace of God. of Eng-
land, Scotland, France, and Ireland, king, de-
Tender of the faith, &c. Then being a seminary
priest, made, professed, and ordained by the
authority and jurisdiction challenged, pretend-
ed, and derived from the see of Rome, the said
29th day of April, in the year aforesaid, within
this kingdom of England (viz.) at Weobly afore-
said, in the county aforesaid, traitorously did
come, was, and did remain, against the form of
the statute in that case made and provided ;
and against the peace of our sovereign lord the
king, his crown and dignity.
Upon this Indictment he bath been arraign-
ed, and thereunto pleaded Not Guilty ; and
lor his trial hath put himself upon God and his
country, which country you are. Your charge
is to enquire whether tie be guilty of the High-
Treason whereof he stands indicted, or Not
Guilty : If you find him Guilty, you are to en-
quire what lands, goods or. tenements he had
at the time of the treason committed, or at any
time since; if you find him Not Guilty, you are
to enquire whether he did flee for the same : If
you find be did flee for the same, you are to en-
quire what lands, tenements or goods he bed at
Ibe time of such flight, or at any time since ; if
you find bim Not Guilty, nor that he did flee
for the same,. you are to say so, and no more ;
and hear your evidence.
CLofArr. Call Edward Biddolph. [Who
was sworn.]
X. C. J. (Sir Win. Scroggs) Give the jury
pen, ink, ana paper.
L. C. J. Biddolph, do you know Jdr. Kerne ?
Biddolph. I do not know him now : I did
know such a man about 6 years ago ; I have
seen him once or tw ice at Mr. Somerset's at
Bollingham, about 6 years ago.
L. C. J. How long is it ago since you saw
him last ?
* See the Case of David Lewis, supra, p. 250,
and the Cases of Brommich, of Atkins, and of
Johnson, in this same year 1679 ; and of An-
derson alias Munson and others, in the follow-
ing year, infra. The Stat. 27 Eliz. ch. 2, is set
forth in Brornraich's Case.
e, at Hereford Assizes, for High
:# 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679.
Biddolph. About a year.
L. C. J. Had you any* discourse with bim ?
Biddolph. No, I never had any.
L. C. J. Look on the prisoner, can you say
that is the man ?
Biddolph. No, my lord, I cannot.;
L. C. J Can you say you ever saw or knew
him?
Biddolph. I cannot.
L. C.J. Set him down. Call another wit-
ness.
CL of Arr. Swear Margaret Edwards.
[Which was done.]
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Kerne?
Edwards. Yes, my lord, I do.
L. C. J. How long have yon known him f
Edward*. Five or six years.
I». C, J. Where did you know him ?
Edwards. AtSan»sfield,atMre.MoningtOD.'s.
L. C. J. Were you a servant there ?
Edwards. No, I went thither about business.
L. C. J. Where did you first see him ?
Edwards, At Mr. Wigmore's of Lucton.
L. C. J. Had you any discourse with him
there?
Edwards. No.
L. C. J. How came you to see bim at Mrs.
MoningtoTi's ?
Edwards. My lord, one James Harris's wife
being very sick, I was desired by him to go to
Mrs. Anne Moningtonto seek some remedy for
her: He desired me the rather, for that sbe
being a papist, and I of the same religion, be
believed for that reason she would be the more
kind to her.
L. C. J. Were you a papist then ?
Edwards. Yes, ray lord.
L. C. J. Well, what said Mrs. Moniogton to
you?
Edwards. My lord, she told me sbe was gl&4
that they bad sent me, for that she did not care
to discourse the distempers of a woman to a
man..
L, C. J. Well, go on.
Edwards. My lord, after she had discoursed
to me concerning the sick woman, she desired
me to go with her, which I did; and she
brought me into the chapel, where I saw Mr.
Kerne in his robes.
L. C. J. Were there, any more in the room
besides him ?
Edwards. Yes, my lord, 4 or 5 : He was in
his robes aud surplice, and was at the altar, and
gave the Sacrament to the rest, but I did not
receive it.
L. C. J. What did you see him do ?
Edwards. I saw him give the Sacrament*
L. C. J. What did he say ?
Edwards. He said Corpus Christi, or some
such words.
L. C. J. Did you see him deliver the wafers t
Edwards. Yes, my lord.
7O0J
STATE TRIALS, 31 Cbaiiju II. 1679.— /or High Trtaton.
[710
X. C. X To how many ?
Edwards. To four.
JL C J. You swear positively to four : did
they confess to him ?
Edwards. Yes, I believe they did.
X. C. J. Did you ever see him since?
Edwards. No, my lord, I never saw him be-
tween that and this.
X. £ J. Did you ever receive the Sacrament
•before, and of whom ?
Edwards. Yes, I received several times :
the first time was of Mr. Duffires, next of Mr.
Kemble, then of Mr. Rowenhill, Mr. Stan-
dish, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Trindai ; I have re-
ceived from Mr. Draycot at Mr. Berrington's ;
I have received at Mr. Blount's ; but the last
time was from Mr. Jennings at Mr. Wigmore's
house.
Pris. My lord, I desire she may be asked
whether she came to Mrs. Monington's of her
own accord, or was sent for physic ?
Edwards. I was sent.
Pris. Did the man send you, or his wife ?
Edwards. The man.
Pris. Have a care what you say, Harris's
wife is here to trepan you.
X. C. J. Give good words ; you begin to tri-
umph too soon. Woman, was it Harris or his
wife sent you ?
Edwards, It was Harris himself that desired
me to go, because I might have more favour,
being a papist.
Pris. Where did that Harris live ?
Edwards. At Leuipster.
Pris. I am satisfied, it was a mistake, I
nought it had been Harris of Lowton she had
X. C. J. Will you ask her any thing ebe ?
Prts. I desire to know the time when she
saw me at Mrs. Monington's ?
Edwards. It was in last May was twelve-
mooch, the 29th day, to the best of my me-
X. C. X Do you take* it to be certain, or do
you believe it only that it was that day ?
Edwards. My lord, 1 am certain it was that
very day ; for the woman died that day, and
that day is writ on the grave-stone.
Pris. I desire to know of her whether she
was ever asked upon her oath, whether she was
ever at Mrs. Monington's since that time ?
'Edwards. I was not there since, nor ever
asked the question, to the best of my know-
ledge.
X. C. X What a question is that ?
Pris. It is very remarkable, fop she was asked
by a juryman last assizes, it was not upon the
trial, bat before the grand jury, and she denied
then that she was ever at Mrs. Monington's in
herJife.
Edwards. I have been there above 20 times.
Pris. Call Roger Hyet.
X. C. X By and by your defence will be '
proper, in the mean* time, what will you ask her
more?
Pris, I desire to ask her what discourse she
bad with Mary Jones, the other witness, for
she has been instructing her what to say ; and
that they may be examined asunder. [Which
was granted.]
X.C.J. What discourse had you with the
other woman ?
Edwards. My lord, she told me that she had
never in all her life been before a judge or jus-
tice of peace ; and that she was afraid of com-
ing before one, for she did not know how to
behave herself.
X. C X Did you tell her what she should
say ?
Edwards. No, my lord.
X. C. X What did you say to her ?
Edwards. I told her, that she would hear her
name called, and then she must answer : and I
bid her have a care that she spoke What she
knew, and no more or less than the truth.
X. C. J. Did she tell you what she could say f
Edwards. She did.
X. C. X What ?
Edwards- That she lived at Mr. Somerset's,
where Mr. Kerne usually was, and that several
people used to come thither, and go up stairs
into the chamber; and she went once to
hearken, and she heard Mr. Kjerne say some-
thing in Latin, which she said was mass.
Pris. Here is a material question to ask this
witness. I desire to know where this woman
saw me first ?
Edwards. At Mr. Wigmore's of Lucton, as
they told me it was him, for I did not know
bis name.
Pris. I would know if the man she saw a^
Mrs. Monington's, was the same person she
saw at Lucton ?
Edwards. To the best of my knowledge it
was.
Pris. I never was at Lucton in all my life.
X. C. X Call the other woman : you shall
now see bow these women agree.
- CI. of Arr. Call Mary Jones. Crier, swear,
her. [Which was done.]
Pris. I desire they may he examined apart.
X. C. X Let the other woman go out.
X. C. X When was the first time you saw
Margaret Edwards?
Jones. Yesterday, and again to-day.
X. C. J. Did she tell you and instruct yoa
what you should say against the prisoner ?
Jones. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Did you teU her what you could .say
against him ?
Jones. No.
X. C. J. Did not you tell her that you lived'
at Mr. Somerset's, and that several people
used to come^hither and go up stairs into the
chamber, and that once you went up tq
hearken, and* heard Mr. Kerne say mass ?
Jones. She did say so to me, but I did not
answer her any thing.
X. C. J. Did she ask where you saw Mr,
Kerne? — Jones. Yes.
X. C. X Where, at Bollineham f
Jonesr. I did tell her that 1 saw him at Bol-
lingham, and that I heard him say tome what
aloud, I think it was Latin.
711] STATE TRIAU5, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial qfCharUs Kerne, £712
X. C. /. How jou answer ' I asked yon but
just now, whether you told her that you saw
Mr. Kerne at Mr. Somerset's house, and that
you went op to hearken, and heard him say
somewhat in Latin ? And you then said you
did not, and now you say you did.
Jones. She spoke to me first about it, and I
did but answer.
X. C.J. What, did she ask you what you
could say against Mr. Kerne ?— -Janet. Yes.
X. C. /. And what did you tell her you
could say ?
Jones. I told her, that one Sunday morning
several people came to Bollingham, out of the
town and out of the country, and went up after
him, and he said somewhat aloud that I did
not understand.
X. C. J. Did you not tell Margaret Edwards
that you heard him say mass ?
Jones. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Call Margaret Edwards again.
Margaret Edwards, Did Mary Jones tell you
that she heard Mr. Kerne say Mass ?
Edwards. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Now, Mary Jones, what say you ?
Did not you tell her that you heard the pri-
soner say mass ?
Jones. No, I am sure I did not : for I never
beard the word before, nor do not know what
it means.
X. C J. The one witness says she did not
name mass, for she did not understand what
it was : the other says she did ; so they con-
tradict one another in that.
X. C. J. Mary Jones, when did you see Mr.
Kerne ?
Jones. Seven or eight years ago.
L.C.J. Where?
. Jones. At Mr. Somerset's at Bollingham, he
lived there half a year.
X. 0 J. What did you see him do ?
Jones. One Sunday morning I was busy a
washing the rooms, and I saw several people
follow him into the chamber.
X. C. J. Did you see him do any thing ?
Jones. No, I heard him say somewhat aloud
which I did oot understand.
X. C. J. How near were you to him ?
Jones. There was only a nail between.
X. C. J. Did you ever see bim give a wafer,
marry » or christen ?
Jones. No, my lord : there was a child chris-
tened in the house.
X. C. J. Who christened it ?
Jones. I cannot tell : there was no one there
but my master and mistress, Mr. Lachet and
his wile, and Mr. Kerne : I was in the next
room-, and I heard words spoken by the voice
of Mr. Kerne.
X. C. J. What can you say more ?
Jones. I ivashed a surplice.
' X. C. J. Whose was it, the prisoner's ?
Jones. I cannot tell, because I did not see it
on his back.
Pris. How could you know a voice ?
Jones,- Very easily, there was but a wall be-
tween.
Pris. Was there no room between ?
Jones. No, there was not.
X. C. J. The woman speaks sensibly : if
you have done asking questions, you had best
call your witnesses.— Pru. Call Mr. Hyet.
X. Q. J, Mr. Hyet, you cannot be sworn,
but you must speak the truth as much as if you
were : well, what can you say ?
Hyet. I asked Margaret Edwards if she had
been at Mrs. Moniogton's ? she said she had :
I asked her if she knew Mr. Kerne? She
said, she did not.
X. C. J. Was she upon her oath when you
asked her this ?
Hyet. No4 my lord.
X. C. J. Have you any more witnesses ?
Pris. Call Mr. Weston's maid.
X. C.J. What can you say?
West. M. I saw those two women talking to-
gether, and that woman instructed the other
what she should say.
X. C. J. What say you to this ?
Edwards and Jones. My Lord, we did not;
X. C. J. Look you, they botli deny it on their
oaths.
X. C. J. How often between the first time
and the 99th of May was twelvemonth, did you
see Mr. Kerne ?
Edwards. Twice or thrice in. Weobly.
X. C. J. What can you say for yourself?
Pris. My Lord, I am very happy that I re-
ceive my trial before your Lordship.
X. C. J. Come, setting aside your apologies,
tell what you have to say ; if you have any more
witnesses, call them.
Pris. My Lord, here are several witnesses
who will prove that that woman was never at
Mrs. Monington's.
X. C. J. That is very improbable ; but call
whom you will.
Pris. My lx>rd, here is Mrs. Mooington, the
person she pretends shewed her up, will swear
she never saw the woman in her life ; and upon
my salvation I never saw either of them before.
X. C. J. Mrs. Moiling. m, the law will not
allow you to be sworn, but I presume that a
person of your quality will speak the truth, as
much as if you were upon your oarh. Do you
know Margaret Edwards?
Mon. My Lord, I do not.
X. C. J. Woman, tell Mrs. Monington from
whom you came.
Edwards. I came from James Harris of
Lempster.
X. C. J. Mrs. Moniiigton, do you know
James Harris of Lempster ?
Mon. My Lord, I do not.
X. C. J. Do you remember that about May
was twelvemonth this woman eame to you for
physic for a woman that was sick ?
Mon. A great, many people come to me on
that errand, so that it is impossible for me to
remember any particular person.
X. C. J. Did you ever take up that woman to
hear mass?
Mon. That I am sure I did not, for I never
took up any stranger in my life.
71S]
STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles
L. C. /. Did Mrs. Monington know you by
face or by name ?
Edwards. I had been at the house several
times, but this time I ' was carried up to Mrs*
Monington by Mary Lewis her maid; Mrs.
Monington told me that she was very glad that
I was sent, for she said she would not give the
man so just an account, because he was a man.
L. C. J. Mrs. Monington, do yon remember
this?
Man. This is frequent.
Edward*. Then she told me that I must put
a plainer of diapalma to the woman's back,
and give her a drink with matt with raisins,
&c.
Mon. As for the plaister, it is. possible I may
prescribe it, but the drink is no receipt of
mine.
Edwards. My Lord, the maid when I came
in was makiug a cheese in the dairy, and I
asked for Mrs. Monington, and she told me she
was within, and straightway brought me up to
her : Mrs. Monington in a little time fell into
discourse with me about religion ; and under-
standing what I was, desired me to go into the
chamber with her.
L. C. /. What kind of chapel was it ?
Edwards. I will give an account of it as well
as I can remember. When we came up stairs
we turned in at a door on the right hand ; the
altar stood just before the door; it was richly
adorned, the altar-cloth was white, and a fine
crucifix on the altar.
Mon. What were the cushions of?
Edwards. As I remember they were needle-
work.
L. C. J. What was the chapel adorned with?
Edwards. With abundance of pictures: I
think the window was on the left hand of the
altar.
Mon. She has failed in the first descriptiftn,
for we go not off the stairs into the chapel, as
sbe says ; neither is it adorned in the manner
as she says it is, nor is there any needlework.
Here is a maid that I deliver all my medicines
to, that perhaps can give a better account whe-
ther this- woman were at my house, than I cau.
L. C. J. Call the maid. You wait on Mrs.
Monington : did you ever see that woman ?
. Maid. No.
L. C. J. I will shew you how yon shall re-
member her ; she came to Mrs. Monington on
the behalf of one Harris's wife, and asked if
she were within, and you carried her to your
mistress.
Edwards. My Lord, I was there several times
besides this, fori carried the child, Mr. Thomas
Monington, thither several times.
L. C. J. Do you remember this ?
Mon. I do not remember that she ever
brought the child to me, but another.
Edwards. My Lord, I always lay with him,'
and tended him, and carried him abroad.
L. C. J. If you have any thing more to say,
speak. What say you for yourself?
Pris. I hope your lordship will sum up the
evidence.
II. I67k-/ar High Treason. [714
I. C. J. That I will : I wiU teU the jury all
I can remember on both sides ; I will not shed
innocent blood, neither will I help the guilty ;
for I, by the duty of my place, am counsel for
the prisoner in all things (it and legal.
Pris. I desire the statute may be read.
L. C J. Let it be read. What statute do
you mean, that of 27 £liz. ?
Pris. Yes, my Lord. ' [Then the statute was
read.]
Pris. Now, Gentlemen, I desire you to take
into consideration, whether my blood shall be
drawn by the evidence of a woman that says
she saw give me a wafer ; or on that evidence
of the other, who says she heard me read she
knows not what through a wall : my lord, it is
an oppression that statutes should be construed
otherwise than they are intended. I hope, my
Lord, that the statute will not take hold of a
man for saying mass, for many say masses that
are not in orders.
L. C. J. It is one of the greatest evidences
to prove a man to be a priest that can be; for
we cannot think of bringing witnesses who saw
you take orders : Do any say mass but priests? Is
it lawful for any one but a priest to say mass ?
Pris. That of bread and wine they do not,
but the other they do.
■ L. C. J. Do any bury or christen but priests ?
Pris. Yes they do in extremis ; and, my lord,
I do acknowledge that I read prayers sometimes,
and sometimes others did. And I desire your
lordship and the jury will take notice, that I
have taken the oaths of Allegiance and Supre-
macy.
L. C. J. Is that all you have to say ?
Pris. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. Then gentlemen of the jury, The
matter you are to try is, whether Charles
Kerne, the prisoner at the bar, be a popish
priest: An Englishman I suppose he does not
deny himself to be ; the question is then if he «
be a Romish priest ? If do he is guilty of high-
treason by the statute of 27 Eliz. This was a
law made for the preservation of the queen,
for the preservation of our religion, and for the
preservation of all Protestants. The. witnesses
are Margaret Edwards and THary Jones. Mar-
garet says, the. first time that she saw the pri-
soner was at Mr. Wigmore's,. who told her it
was Mr. Kerne ; and she says that sbe hath seen
him several times since; twice or thrice at
Weobly, and the last time was the 29th of May
was twelvemonth, at Mrs. Monington's, where
she saw him deliver the wafer, which is the
sacrament, to four persons that were there,
but she herself did not receive it ; and then she
gives you an account of the reason of her com-
ing then to Mrs, Monington's, which was at the
request of one Harris, whose wife was sick, to
seek some remedy from Mrs. Monington for the
sick woman: She tells you how the maid
brought her up to her mistress, how she ac-
quainted her with her errand, what advice Mrs.
Monington gave her for the sick woman, and
bow that Mrs. Monington understanding what
religion she was of, took iier into the chapel '
<5
715] STATE/TRIALS, 31 Chaw-m II. l&Q.—Trud <tf Andrew Brommich, [71»
whereof the gives you a description. It is
very probable she may go on such an errand,
yet Mrs. Monington not know her, but Mrs.
Monington cannot positively say, but believes
she was never there : Mr. Kerne, I suppose, will
not deny bet that he who •gives the wafer is a
priest.
Pris. There is blessed bread which others
sney give.
L. C. J. When you give such bread, do you
not say, Accipi Corpus Christi ?
Pris. We use-no such words. [But it appear-
ed, upon his own repeating of the Latin words
they used upon the giving the sacrament, that
those were part of the words.]
L, C. J. The prisoner made an offer to prove
some disagreement between the witnesses; it is
true, they did differ in some small things, as the
saying the word mass, bat from hence can no
great matter be inferred against the evidence ;
so here is one positive evidence.
There must indeed be two witnesses ; now
the question will be about the second woman's
testimony. She says she knew Mr. Kerne about
eight years ego, when she lived at Mr. Somer-
set's, and that Mr. Kerne lived in the house
about half a year: She tells you that she hath
teen several persons come thither ; and amongst
the rest, she says, that one Sunday morniog
several persons came thither; and went up
with Mr. Kerne, and that she was so curious as
to hearken, and did bear Mr. Kerne say some-
thing in ao unknown tongue: Kerne objects
that she could not know it was his voice ; bat
for that, I think men are easily distinguished
by their voices ; but that I must leave to your
consideration.
But now the main question will be, what it
was she heard him say? Mr. Kerne says,
that m times of straitness, persons that are
not priests may read prayers, and so perhaps
he may be then reading the collects.
But then again : She says there was a child
christened in the house, and no one there but
Mr. Somerset and his wife, Mr. Lacbet and his
wife, and Mr. Kerne to do it : She did not see
him christen it, and it is true likewise what he
says, that in their church they allow others, as
midwives, to christen in extremis; not that he
confesses he did christen.
L. C. J. Call Mary Jones again. Mary/
Jones, was it a sickly child ?
Jones* No, my lord.
L. C. J. Then that is answered : So that if
you believe that he did christen the child, there
are two witnesses against him : I must leave it
with you as a tender point on both sides; I
would not shed innocent blood, neither would
I willingly let a popish priest escape. There
is one positive witness, and if you believe upon
the woman's hearing his voice, that he did say
mass, or did christen, for I must confess she says
she did not see him christen, then you must
find him .guilty : So I leave it to you upon the
whole matter.
The Jury returned, and were called over.
William Barret, &c.
CI, ofArr. Jailor, set up Charles Kerne.
Gentlemen, Are yon agreed of your verdict ?
Jury. Yes.
CL Who shall say for you ?
Jury. The Foreman.
CI. Look upon the prisoner: What say you,
is Charles Kerne guilty of the high- treason
whereof be stands indicted, or not guilty ?
Foreman. Not Guilty.
£55. The Trial of Andrew Brommich, at Stafford Assizes, for High
- Treason, being a Romish Priest: 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679. #
The Court being sat, they proceeded to the
Trial thus.
THE Lord Chief Justice' having the night be-
fore charged the sheriff to return a good jury,
end the court being sat, he enquired of him if
be had observed his directions ; the sheriff ac-
^^— — ■ ..i . m i i— i .i , — i ^..* i i ■ ii . i .»■■■».
* Published in 1679, under the following
Order ; u ' I do appoint Robert Pawlet to print
* the Trials of Andrew Brommich, William
' Atkins and Charles Kerne, and that no other
' person presume to print the same. Wiixiaic
4 Scaooos.' "
In the same year was also published : " The
Trial and Condemnation of two Popish Priests,
Aodrew Brommich and William Atkins, for
High Treason, at Stafford Assises, August 16,
1679, with an Account of the Notable Equivo-
cation of some Witnesses of the Romish Church
there produced. And the Reason thereof from
quainted his lordship, that since he bad
impannelled the said jury, he bad heard*
that one Allen, of in the said/ county,
being then returned to serve on the said jury,
had said in discourse with some of his fellows,
that nothing was done against the popish priests
above, and therefore he would do nothing N
their awn Authors. Mr. Stephen Dogdale,
one of the Grand Evidences of the Popish
Plot, being there present. London, printed for
John Amery, at the Peacock in Fleet-street,
1679.
" Were there no other evidence of a Popish
Plot lately, I wish 1 could not say still carried
on, ior subverting the established government
and religion of these kingdoms of Great Bri-
tain and Ireland, the only remaining bulwark
of the Protestant interest throughout the
world; The unusual resort end numerous
swarms of Jesuit priests, and other Romish lo»
W]
STATE TRIALS, St Cham.es II. 1679— Jor High Trpamm.
[71S
against them here, nor find them guilty ; where-*
upon his lordship called for the said Allen and
one Randal Calciough, one of his fellow jury-
men, and another witness upon oath, who pro-
' ■ . . .
costs from their outlandish seminaries of Rome,
Valladolid, Saint Omers, Doway and Rhemes
(those constant nurseries^and for about 100 years
continued rendezvous of rebellion and treason,
ever since Alien, afterwards a cardinal, laid the
first platform at Doway in the year 1568) that
have of late come into England ; might be a
sufficient proof that they had some more than
ordinary design in hand. For though by the
statute of the 27 th Elisabeth, on most just and
necessary reasons, vis* Their disowning her
majesty's right to the crown, and justifying ber
deposal by tbe Pope, and that all her subjects
were discharged from their allegiance, and all
obedience to her, &o. It was made capital for
any of those seminarists to come into these
kingdom*; so that their first setting a step on
English ground was by law High Treason, yet
such is their confidence, that well knowing the
premises, they daily came over in great num-
bers, and as if they had a public indulgence,
did not stick continually to pervert and seduce
his majesty's subjects to the idolatries and su-
perstitions of tbe Romish Church. Yet had
this been all and ' managed with any modest
colourable pretence of conscience, it might
possibly have been borne with by our most gra*
cioub sovereign, the best and most merciful of
{irinces, without exacting the severity of those
aws ; but when these very men so obnoxious
before to just punishment, have so far abused
his majesty's lenity and compassionate good
nature, as to contrive and vigorously promote
horrid designs against his sacred life, and what
is yet more dear to him, the true Protestant re*
hgion,as It is most apparent they lately have done,
it cannot but be thought high time to restraio
their insolence, by putting in execution those
wholesome laws, which their continual trea-
sonable practices have not only justified, but
rendered absolutely necessary for the preserva-
tion of his life and crown.
" In pursuance hereof, in such a juncture of
affiufs, the honourable judges of assize had par-
ticular order to give in change the strict prose-
cution of all Jesuits and Popish priests that
might be discovered in their respective circuits;
and it is wonderful, considering the subtle dis-
guises ap.d caution of that sort of men, and the
secrecy of their seduced followers, who as
strictly conceal their priests, as those do their
confessions, that so many should be discovered.
M At the assizes of Stafford there were no
fewer than nine persons charged as Popish
priests, whereof two, viz. George Hopson and
Robert Peters, as being it is said obnoxious to
an indictment of another nature, are to be re-
moved to London, the writs for that purpose
being now in the sheriff's hands : five otheVs
suspected on violent presumptions to be Jesuits,
are ordered to remain in custody till the next
the evidence against them that ap-
ving the words against him, his lordship dis-
charged him of the jury, and committed him to
prison till he found sureties for his good beha-
viour ; and likewise three more of tbe jury
- ■ ; »,
pears for the present, not being full enough,
according to the mercifulness of our English
laws, to proceed against them to a legal con-
viction : though it is credibly reported and
reasonably believed there will, before that time,
come in sufficient and demonstrable proof.
" The other two, viz. Andrew Brommich
late of Perry-bar, and William Atkins of Wol-
verhampton in this county of Stafford (for tbe
multitude of Papists roosting there, commonly
called Little Rome) did now come to their trials.
The Unt was a young lusty brisk fellow, lately/
come from beyond the seas, and as he pre-
tended (according to the usual arts of that tribe
who are never to seek for an excuse) a mer-
chant heretofore in France and Portugal : which
may pass well enough under the favour of a
Catholic figure. For no doubt he had good
store of Roman commodities to vend amongst
his silly Popish chapmen, as consecrated beads,
crucifixes, Agnus Dei's, pardons, indulgences,
and such like trumpery, with not a little sedi-
tion, rebellion and treason into *he bargain.
The first and uiost material witness to prove
him a priest, was one Anne Robinson, who
about a year ago was a Papist, and then se-
duced to that religion by a wheedling priest,
who is since fled ; but upon consideration of
the horrid plot carried on by those of that reli-
gion, and the charitable pains of some Protes-
tant divines, she hath been reduced again to
the Church of England. The evidence she
gave against him, was to this effect :
" That about Christmas last be said mass,
and she received the Eucharist or Sacrament
from him in a wafer, in a private Popish con*
venticle, six or seven being then in company ;
and before that time twice at one Mr. Purcef »,
and twice at one -Mr. Birch's.
" Bat most observable it was, that there be-
ing two others, known Papists, summoned in for
evidence, and whom she swore positively to
have received tbe Sacrament, and heard him
say mass the same times with her ; they not-
withstanding, according to the common princi-
ples and practices of their fraudulent religion,
which teaches them to dispense with truth, or
the most sacred oath, to save a priest from
danger, did foully equivocate in their evidence,
and denied that they knew him ; but the con-
trary was proved upon them, and thereupon,
and other concurrent evidence and irrefragable
circumstances, the jury was satisfied, and
brought him in Guilty.
" But lest any affronted Papist should say,
or weak Protestant think, that I wrong the
Popish Church in asserting, that they teach, a*
person may lawfully deny the truth, or affirm a
lie, though upon oath, to secure one of their
priests, I shall here make it good from their
own approved authors, and then leave the in*
different reader to judge what account is to be-
719] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles. IL 1670.— Trial -tf Andrew Brommich, [?&>
were discharged upon suspicion of being po-
pishly affected, his lordship commanding the
sheriff to return good men in their places ;
which was accordingly done, and the jury sworn,
vis,
Thomas fliggin, John Webb, Edward Ward,
Thomas Marshall, John Beech, Randal Cal-
clough, Richard Trindall, James Beckett, Wil-
liam Smith, William Finson, Daniel Buxton,
and Richard Cartwright.
CI. of Arr. Gaoler, set up Andrew Broin-
mich to the bar : Crier, make proclamation*.
made of these mens' perjury, or the late impu-
dent lies of the novices from St. .Omers against
Dr. Oates's testimony. Our first proof shall
be taken from no. less than a whole Popish
college, viz that of Rhemes, who in their an-
notations on their English translation of the
New Testament, upon Acts 23, verse IS, lay
down this doctrine in these express words ; ' If
4 thou be put to an oath to accuse Catholics for
* serving God as they ought to do, or to utter
' any innocent man to God's enemies, and his, '
4 thou oughtest first to Tefuse such unlawful
4 oaths : but if thou have not constancy and
4 courage so to do, yet know thou, that such
4 oaths bind not at all in conscience and law of
' God, but may, and must be broken under pain
4 of damnation.'
" Secondly, to shew you how you shall shift
and deny the truth in such cases, I shall cite
another document of theirs, in a book entitled,
' A Treatise tending to Pacification,' printed
permusu superiorum, in the year 1607 ; and
said to be written by their fatuous Jesuir, Par-
sons. Page 426, he thus instructs his Catho-
lics ; ' Our doctors say and maintain, that when
*. the judge is not lawful [so with them is every
4 Protestant judge, especially when he meddles
* with their priests] or that he inquireth of secrets
4 which appertain not to his jurisdiction, then any
4 witness may refuse to answer, yea, though he
' hath first sworn to answer directly, may use a
4 refuge, that is to say, he may deny all in form,
4 or use doubtful or equivocal words, and other
' such manner of ordinary evasions, which if
* they prevail not, then he may deny and say,
4 4 Nihil scio, nihil vidi, nihil audivi,' I know
4 nothing of the matter, I have seen nothing, I
4 have heard nothing, reserving [Pray observe
4 the horrid cheat, how to baulk an oath, and
4 stifle conscience in a Roman Catholic way]
4 Jo his mind the other part (of the intended
4 equivocating sentence) that he knoweth no-
4 thing, hath seen nothing, nor heard nothing
4 within that unjust examination he is bound to
4 answer.'
44 The same author, p. 435, asserting and jus-
tifying the use of equivocation, recites with ap-
probation this case, put by one Sotus, one of
their Popish doctors : 4 If,' saith he, 4 1 having
4 seen Peter kill John, and being afterwards
4 examined upon the same unjustly,' (and we
guess how far that will extend in a Catholic
sense) 4 whether I may say I know nothing
4 thereof?9 To which he givcth this anjwer ;
Crier. O yes! If any one can inform my
lords the king's justices, the king's sergeant, the
king's attorney, or this inquest now to be taken,
of any treasons, murders, felonies, or other
misdemeanors, committed or done by the pri-
soner at the bar, let them come forth and they
shall be heard. -
CI. of Arr. Andrew Brommich, hold up thy
hand. These good men that were lately called |
and have now appeared, are those which must
pass between our sovereign lord the ki rig and
you upon your life or death: tfyou will chaK
4 Respondetur quod jure possum lespondere,
4 Nescio ; quia jure intelligitur, nescio, ut di- i
4 cam ; aut nescio eo modo quo jure debeam
4 dicere :' * I affirm, that 1 may rightly answer,
' that I know nothing thereof, that is, I know it
4 not to declare it ; or I know it not in sach a
1 manner, as by law I ought to utter the same/
" An hundred such instances might be given
from their own approved' pens ; and who can
think but the private instructions of their little
Father-Confessors are agreeable to these rules
of their great doctors ; and therefore it is no
wonder if these two well discipline^ papists de-
nied upon their oaths, that they knew this their
ghostly Father Mr. Brommich, that is they did
not kndw him in their sense to be guilty of
treason, or to have taken orders at Jerusalem,
or any thing else that they should please to have
reserved in their fallacious minds. As for the
other person indicted, Mr. Atkyns, the evidence
was very full and home that they heard him say
mass and prayers in an unknown tongue, that
they saw him administei the sacrament in a
wafer after the manner of the church of Rome;
and oneof the witnesses swore directly, that he
himself had been at confession with him, and
received absolution from him ; so that he was
likewise brought in guilty : and the court pro-
ceeded to pronounce sentence of death against
them, according to law. Bat by order, their
execution is respited, till his majesty be further
informed, and shall declare his gracious pleasure
therein.
44 There were likewise these assizes, tried
one Mr. Kerne, » seminary priest at Hereford,
and one William Jones of the same quality at
Monmouth. But against each of these there
being but one positive witness, as to saying
mass in their vestments, administering the sa-
crament, &c. and the rest of the evidence only
circumstantial, neither of them were brought in
guilty.
" And hereby the whole world may take no-
tice of, and admire the clemency of bis majesty,
the tenderness of his laws, and the mode-
ration of his Protestant subjects ; and how
little reason papists at home, or their brethren
abroad, have to complain of any hardship used
towards them in England, when after such oh*
stinacy in repeated treasons, and contempt of
his majesty's proclamations, commanding them
away, and the unparalleled provocation of their
conspiracy, yet still they are proceeded against
with all kind of equity, and allowed the utmost-
99!]
STATE TOTALS, Si CmaajuK im<~JbtMig* TYtdsm.
\m
leage any of them job must speak at they come
to the book to be sworn, and before tbey bo
sworn.
The Prisoner challenging none, the jury ' was
sworn, ut ante. .
. CLofArr. Gentlemen of the jury, look upon
the prisoner and hearken to hia cause. You
shall understand that he stands indicted by the
name of Andrew Brommich, late of Perry Ban*
in the county of Stafford gent, for that he being
bora within the kingdom of England, the
thirteenth day of January, in the thirtieth
year of the reign of our sovereign lord king
Charles 2, by the* grace of God, of England, ,
Scotland, France, and Ireland king, defender of
the faith, &c. ' then bein^ a seminary priest
made, professed and ordained by the autho-
rity and jurisdiction challenged, pretended and
derived from the see of Rome, the said thir-
teenth day of January in the year aforesaid,
within this kingdom of England, viz. At Perry
Ban* aforesaid, in the county aforesaid, traiter-
ously did come, was and did remain, against
the form of the statute in that case made and
provided, and against the peace of our sove-
reign lord the king, his crown and dignity.
Upoa this indictment he hath been arraigned
and hath pleaded thereunto Not Guilty, and for
bis trial hath put himself upon God and. his
country, which country you are : your charge
is to enquire whether he be Guilty of the high*
treason whereof he stands indicted, or Not
Guilty : if you find him Guilty, you are to en-
quire what lauds, goods, or tenements he
bad at the time of the treason committed,
or at any time since : if you find him
Not Guilty, you are to enquire whether
be did fly for the same, and -what lands,
goods or tenements he bad at the same time of
such flight, or at any time since ; if you find him
Not Guilty, nor that he did fly for the same,
you are to say so and no more, and hear your
evidence.
privileges of law ; and even those that happen
to be convicted, oft-times after condemnation
enjoy their lives, by the mercy of that prince
whom their merciless faction would «*f late so
impiously and ungratefully have murdered.
" What rigours and severities would other na-
tions, and the Roman Catholics beyond the
seas, have exercised upon such an occasion ?
Had the poor French hugonots, after all the
infringements of their liberties, and daily op-
Ere&SKMis, happened thus to have violated their
lyalty, tbey must not have expected the for-
malities of law to convict them ; nor the pa-
tience of authority to hear them, nor the indul-
gence of majesty to reprieve them. A general
massacre, promiscuous destruction, and exqui-
site tortures had been the least they could have
hoped for from the incensed rabble, and their
barbarous tyrannic hands, who have formerly
in a base perfidious manner, slaughtered so
many thousands of them, without the leait pre-
tence either of justice or provocation."
YOI» YJI.
< Cl.qfArr. Crier call Ann Robinson, [Who
was sworn.)
L. C. X (Sir William Scftggs.) Anil 1tc-s
binson, what can you say against Andrew BromV
such?
A. Rob. My lord, I can say that I received
the sacrament of him according to the church
of Rome in a wafer.
X. C. J. When ? How long ago ?
A. Rob. About Christmas last.
L.C.J. What company was there? bow
many were there in company ?'
A. Rob. My lord, I cannot positively tell
how many, but I believe there were abouf
seven or eight.
X. C. J. Did they all receive at the same
time ?
A Rob. Tes, my lord, they did all receive at
that time.
X, C. J. Are you a papist?
A. Rob. No, my lord.
X. C. J. How long were you a papist ?
A. Rob. Several years.
X. C. X Who first seduced you ?
A. Rob. My lord, I cannot tell his name.
X. C. J. Did you ever receive the sacra men*
according to their way, of Mr. Brommich, before
the time you speak of ?
A.Rob. Yes.
X. C. X How often ?
A. Rob. Pour times, my lord ; twice at Mr.
Birch's and twice at Air. rursaPs.
X. C. X How came you to give her the sa-
crament ? [to the Prisoner.]
Frit. My lord, I never did.
X. C. J. Why, she has sworn you gave it her
several times, once in particular at Christmas
last* end Jour times more, twice at Mr. Birch's,
and twice at Mr. PursalV
PrU. My lord, I cannot help it. I desire
your lordship will take notice of one thing,thatl
hate taken the oaths of Allegiance and Supre-
macy, and have not refused any thing whica
might testify my loyalty.
X. C. J. That will not serve your turn, you
priests have tricks to evade that.
Pris. Besides, my lord, I never absconded.
X. C. X You never absconded 9 what is that
to giving the woman the sacrament several
times ?
PrU. My lord, I desire she may prove ib
X. C. J. She does so.
PrU. My lord, I humbly conceive it was no
sacrament unless I were a priest.
X. C. X What an argument h that? You
expect we should prove you a priest by win
nesses which saw you take orders; but we know
so much of your religion, that none undertake
to give the sacrament in a wafer, or say mass,
but a priest; and you gave the sacrament to
that woman in a wafer, therefore you are a
priest.
CI. of Arr. Crier, call another witness;
swear Jeoffrey Robinson.
X. C. X What can you say to Mr. Brom-
mich? # ,.
Jeof. Rob. I can say nothing agaillst him*
3 A
TO9] STATS TRIALS, SI Charles IX 1670.— Trial qf Andrew Brommkk. [£*
k
X. C. X Did you ever hear him say mass?
Jeef. Rob. I cannot tell, I have heard him say
something in an unknown tongue ; but 1 know
not what it was.
X C. X Was it Latin that he said?
Jeof. Rob. I cannot tell : I am no scholar.
X. C, X Had he a surplice on?
Jeof. Rob. Yes, my lord, he had.
X. C. X Robinson, are you a rapist?
Jeof. Rob. Yes, my lord.
X. C. X I thought io, it is so hard to get the
truth out of you.
CI. qfArr. Crier, swear Jane Robinson.
X C. X Come, what can you say ? Did you
*rer see Brommich give the sacrament ?
' Jane Rob. Not to my knowledge.
X. C. J. Did you ever bear him say mass?
Jane Rob. I never saw him do any thing ;
fori only went up and said my prayers, I took
do notice of any thing.
X. C. X Did not you see Brommich there?
Jane Rob. I cannot tell.
X. C. X Why, den't you know him ?
Jane Rob. No, my lord.
X; C. X Your husband knows him. You
Jeoffirey Robinson! do not you: kuow Mr.
Brommich ?
Jeof. Reb. Not I, my lord.
. X. C. X That is right, like a papist. Did
you not hut ius^now say you 'heard him say
something in an unknown tongue, and saw him
in a Surplice, and yet now you do not know
him ? you have no more conscience than what
your priests allow yoo. But though your
priests can persuade you to take false oaths, I
would not have you think they can protect
you from the punishment due to them here or
hereafter.
An. Rob. My lord, they both took the sa-
crament with me at the same time from him.
X. C. X , Look you there, was ever the like
impudence seen? Come friend, consider you
are upon your oath, and do not brine yourself
into the snare of a pillory. Come Robinson,
I ask you by the oath yon have taken, did you
ever receive the sacrament with Ann Robinson
sit the time she speaks of at Mr. Pursafs?
Jeof. Rob. Yes, my lord.
X. C. X How barn the truth is to be gotten
out of you! But within this country, which
abounds so with priests and swarms with
papists, that you get popery lie re like the itch ;
if they but rub upon you, you catch it.
Jane Hob. My lord, be is a weak man.
X. C X Who gave it you ?
Jeof. Rob. I do not know.
X. C. X He will say no more than his wife
and the priest will give him leave.
X. C. J. Look you gentlemen of the jury,
here arc two papists that are witnesses ; you
are to consider how far they tell the truth, and
how far they conceal it, how they tell their
tale so as to serve a turn ; Fox here you see rhe
man said at first he heard him say somewhat in
an unknown tongue, and that he saw him in a
surplice ; after t that he denies he knows him*
hut now you see by this woman the truth is
come out ; he hath confessed and owned he
ceived the sacrament at PursaPs with her. We .
cannot expect more positive evidence from
such people. Come read the statute.
Anno 27 Eliz. cap. 2.*
" Whereas divers persons, called or professed
Jesuits, seminary priests, and other priests,
which have been, and from time to time are
made in the parts beyond the seas, by or ac-
cording to the order and rites of the Romish
church, have of' late comen and been sent, and
daily do come and are sent into this realm of
England, and other the queen's majesty's do-
minions, of purpose (as it bath appeared) as
well by sundry of their own examinations and
confessions, as divers other manifest means and
proofs, not only to withdraw her highness's
subjects from their due obedience to her ma-
jesty, but also to stir up and move sedition,
rebellion and open hostility within the same her
highness's realms and dominions, to the great
endangering of the safety of her most royal per-
son, and to the utter ruin, desolation and over*
throw of the whole realm, if the same be not
the sooner by some good means foreseen and
prevented.
" For reformation whereof he it ordained, es-
tablished and enacted by the Queen's most ex-
cellent majesty, and the Lords spiritual and tem-
poral, and the Commons in this present Parlia-
ment assembled, and by the authority of the
same Parliament, That all and every Jesuits,
seminary priests, and other priests whatsoever,
made or ordained out of the realm of England,
or other her highnesses dominions, or within
any of her majesty's realms or dominions, by
any authority, power or 'jurisdiction, derived,
challenged, or pretended from the See of Rome
since the feast of (he nativity of St. John
Baptist, in the first year of her highnesses reign,
shall within forty days next after the end of this
present session of parliament depart ont of this
realm of England, and out of all other her high-
nesses realms and dominions, if the wicdj
weather, and passage shall serve for the same, or
else so soon after the end of the* said forty days
as the wind, weather and passage shall so
serve.
" And be it further enacted by the anthorify
aforesaid, That it shall not he lawful to, or for
any Jesuit, seminary priest, or other such
priest, deacon, or religious, or ecclesiastical
person whatsoever,being born within this realm,
or any other her highnesses dominions, and
heretofore since the said feast of the nativity
of £t. John Baptist in the first year of her ma-
jesty's reign made, ordained or professed or
* This statute, savs Mr. East, seems to be
provisionally repealed by the 4th sec. of the
stat. 31 Geo. 3. c. 3$. in respect of such as take
the oath of allegiance, abjuration, and declara-
tion therein mentioned. Mr. Burke observes
with treat severity upon this statute in his most
eloquent speech delivered at Bristol in the yea*
mo.
725] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Charles II. 1 679.— Trial <tf William Atkins. [796
Brommich be a popish priest or not : To pro?*
that be it, here is a woman, one Aon Robinson,
that swears she received the Sacrament of bin
in a wafer once at Christinas last, aod twice at
Mr. Birch's, and twice at Mr. Puraal's, and that
he gave it to several others at the same time.
There needs not much to persuade you that be
who gives the Sacrament is a priest, for in their
church they allow no one but a priest to give
the Sacrament, so there is one express evidenoe
against him. And now I must satisfy you in
one thing, that you are to give a Verdict not
that he is a priest, but that you believe him in
your conscience upon the whole evidence to be.
a priest. To male you do this, here is one
positive evidence.
The other man, when I came to examine him
whether he ever heard the prisoners say Mass ;
he answered, that he heard him say something
in an unknown tongue, and that he was in a
surplice. This is as much as we could expect
from one of their own religion, who dare say
no more than their priests will give them leave
to do. So gentlemen I roust leave it to you,
whether or know you will not believe the tes-
timony of this real positive witness, and the
circumstantial evidence of the other man : For
you see in what dangers we are ; I leave it upon *
your consciences, whether you will let priests
escape, who are the very pests and dangers of
Church and State ; you had better be rid of
o:te priest than three felons ; so gentlemen, I
leave it to you.
The jury having staid some time, returned to
the court to give their verdict.
CI. ofArr. Gentlemen of the jury, have you
agreed on your verdict ?
Jury. Yes.
CI. ofArr. Who shall say it for you f
Jury. The foreman."
CI. ofArr. Gaoler, set up Andrew Brom-
mich to the bar.
Gentlemen, do you find. Andrew Brommich
Guilty of the High Treason he hath been ar-
raigned of, or Not Guilty ?
Jury Guilty.
L. C. J Gentlemen, you have found a good
verdict, and A I bad been one of you, I should
have found the same myself.
Afterwards he received the usual sentence a*
in High Treason.
hereafter to be made, ordained or professed by
any authority or jurisdiction derived, challenged
or pretended from the See of Rome, by, or of
what name, tide or degree soever the same
shall be called or known, to come into, be or
remain in any part of this realm or any other
her highnesses dominions, after the end of the
same forty days, other than in such special
cases, arid upon such special occasions only,
and for such time only as is expressed in this
act. And if he do, that then every such of-
fence shall be taken and adjudged to be High
Treason, and every person so offending shall
for his offence be adjudged a traitor, and shall
suffer loss, and forfeit as in ease of High Trea-
son.
"And every person which after the end of the
same forty days, and after such time of depar-
ture, as is before limited and appointed, shall
wittingly and willingly receive, relieve, comfort,
aid or maintain any such Jesuit, seminary priest,
or other priest, deacon or religious, or ecclesi-
astical person as is aforesaid, being at liberty,
or out of hold, knowing him to be a Jesuit, se-
minary priest, or other such priest, deacon or
religious, or ecclesiastical person as is aforesaid,
shall also for such offence be adjudged a
felon without benefit of clergy, and suffer death,
loss, and forfeit, as in case of one attainted of
Jelony.*
X. C. J. Come, what have you more to say?
Pris. I desire that there may be notice taken
what Robinson and his wife said upon their ex-
aminations before the justice of peace.
L. C. J. We are to take notice only of what
they say here. .
Pris. My lord, they Said here they did not
know me.
X. C. J. No : Did not Robinson say he
heard you say something in an unknown tongue ;
that he then saw you in a surplice ? Did we
talk of any one but you ? Come Jesuit, with
your learning, you shall not think to baffle us ;
I have of late had occasion to converse with
your most learned priests, and never yet saw
one that had either learning or honesty.
X. C. J. Have you any witnesses ? Have
you any more to say ?— Pris . No.
X. C. /. Then gentlemen of the jury, the
question you are to try, is, whether Andrew
256. The Trial of William Atkins, at Stafford Assizes, for High
Treason, being a Romish Priest: 31 Charles II. a. d. 1679-
Cl. ofArr. G AOLER, set up William Atkins
to the bar : Crier, make proclamation.
The Jury were called and sworn.
Cl ofArr. Gentlemen of the jury, look on
the prisoner and hearken to his cause. You
shall understand that he stands indicted by the
name of William Atkins, lare »f Wolverhamp-
ton in the county of Stafford, gent, for that ne
being bom within the kingdom of England, the
5th day of December, in the 30th year of the
reign of our sovereign lord king Charles thi
2nd, by the grace of God, of England, Scot-
land, France and Ireland king, detender of the
faith, &c. Then being; a seminary priest, made,
professed, and ordained by the authority and
jurisdiction challenged, pretended, and derived
from the See of ttome ; the said fifth day of
December in the year aforesaid, within this
kingdom of England, ▼». at Wolverhampton
#37} STATE TftlUS/ $1 €ha*xb* II. Wt^TrialqfWMmA&mi (ft*
aforesaid in the county aforesaid, traitorously
did come, was, and did remain, against the
form of the statute in that case made and pro-
vided; and against the peace bf our sovereign
)ord the king, his crown and dignity.
Upon this indictment he hath been arraigned,
and thereunto pleaded Not Guilty ; and for his
trial he hath put himself upon God and his
country, which country you are. Your charge
is, to enquire whether he be Guilty of the bign-
treasou whereof he stands indicted, or Not
Guilty : if you find him Guilty, you are to
inquire what lands, goods or tenements he had
at the time of the high-treason committed, or
at any time since ; if you find him Not Guilty, %
you are to enquire whether be did fly for the %
fame ; if you find he did fly for the same, you
are to enquire what lands, goods or tenements
be had at the time of such flight, or at any time
since ; if you find him Not Guilty, nor that
be did fly for the same, you are to say so and no
more and hear your evidence.
CI. qfArr. Crier, call the witnesses ; call
William Jackson, Francis Wildcn, Jo. Jarvis,
ice. Swear Jackson. [Which was done.]
' X. C. J. Come, friend, what can you say
concerning Atkins the prisoner being a priest ?
Jackson. My lord, I can say nothing at all, I
was there when he was apprehended, and
-bound over to prosecute him.
• CL qf Arr. Crier, Swear Francis Wilden.
[Whiob was done.]
L. C. J. What can you say concerning At-
kins being a priest ?
. Wilden. My lord, I have seen him at prayers.
X. C. J. Was he in a surplice tbeh ?
Wilden. Yes, my lord.
JL C. J. Did you ever hear him say mass ?
Wilden. I cannot tell.
J,. C. X In what language were his prayers ?
Wilden. In an unknown tongue.
L, Q. J. Were they in Latin ?
Wilden. I cannot tell, my lord ; I am not a
scholar good enough to know.
X. C. J. Are you a papist ?
Wilden. I have been a Protestant since
Christmas.
X. C. J. It is the principle of a Protestant
\p tell downright truth, and the principle of a
papist is to equivocate ; come &peak truth, and
your conscience will be lighter : did you ever
see Atkins deliver the Sacrament in a waier,
according to the manner and way of the Church
of Rome ?
Wilden. My lord, I never received it qf
him myself, but I have seen him give it to
Others.
. 1. C. X Where ?
Wilden. At Mrs. Stanford's, at Wolver-
hampton.
XTC /, To. bow many ?
Wilden. To seven or eight at a time.
JL C. J. Was be in a surplice then ?
Wilden. Yes, my lord.
L. C* J. I do not know whether the prisoner
W hear what the witpey says; if is fit be
should know. [The prisoner being told, be re-
plied, he knew not the witness.]
CL qf Arr. Swear John Jarvis.
Crier. My lord, he refuseth to be sworn.
JL C. J. Jarvis, why will you not be sworn ?
Jarvis. My lord, I was troubled with a vision
the last night.
L.C J. You mistake, friend, old men
dream dreams, it is young men see visions, and
you are an old man : speak the truth, and I
will warrant you, you will not be troubled
with visions any more ; this is a trick of the
priests. Swear him, Crier. [Which was done.]
X. C. J. Come, Jarvis, what can you say ?
Jarvis. My lord, he is a man that hath re-
lieved me and my children oftentimes when I
wos in want.
X. C. J. Did you ever hear him say mass ?
Jarvis. My lord, I am an ignorant man ; I
cannot tell ; I have heard him say somewhat in
an unknown tongue
L. C. J. Did you ever confess to him ?
Jarvis. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. Did you ever receive the Sacra-
ment of him according to the manner of the
Church of Rome ?
Jarvis. Yes, my lord, I have ; I must speak
the truth,
X. C. J. How often ?
Jarvis. A great many times.
X. C.J. And had he not his priest's habit on
when he gave it you ?
Jarvis. Yes, my lord, he had.
CL qfArr. Cner, call Joan Wright. [Who
was called, but did not appear.]
Call Henry Brown. [Who appeared and was
sworn.]
X. C. J. Come, Mr. Brown, what can yon
say against the prisoner? Did you ever receive
the Sacrament of him, or bear him say mass f
Brown. My lord, I was almost turned firm
the Protestant religion to that of ihe Church of
Rome; but I never went further than con*
fessibn, and that was to this man, and then I
left them.
X. C. X Indeed you were the wiser.
CL o/Arr. Crier, call Tho. Dudley. [Who
was sworn.]
X. C. J. What can you say against the prif
soner ?
Dudley. I was a little given that way, and
have been at confession with one Atkins, and
have s^mk him perform several rites of the
Church of Rome, at Well-head, at Ham.
X- C. X Do you believe this to be the ma&i
Dudley. Yes, my lord, I do.
X. C. J. Have you any more to say ?
Dudley. No, my lord.
X. C. X Read the statute. [Whioh was
done.] Have you witnesses, Atkins, or any
thing to say for yourself?
Fris. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Look you gentlemen of the jury, -
Here is as full and as positive an evidence as
can be against the prisoner : the two first wit*
nesses, Wilden and Jarvis, are positive. Wilden
swear&lK h ea*d &p^ say UjsiW*# ,m *a «**r
79T| STATE TRIALS, 51 Cjuius H. 1679.~JK«1 e/ Fmtk fwham. {*»
think vou need net ttir from the bar, bat do 9
VOU will.
The Jury having oooiidered of the Evidence
some time, gave in their Verdict.
CLofArr. Gentlemen of the jury, are job
agreed of toot verdict i
Jury. Ye*.
Cl.ofArr. Who shall fay for you ?
Juiy. The foreman.
CI. of Art. Gaoler, set op William Atkins.
i Which was done.] Gentlemen of the jury
bok on the prisoner. What say you, Is he
Guilty of the High-treason whereof he stands
indicted, or Not Guilty i
Jury. Guilty.
CI. of Arr. What lands, goods or tenements
had be?
Jury. None to our knowledge.
CI. of Arr. Look to him, Gaoler, he is found
Guilty of high- treason.
He received the sentence usual in oases of
high- treason.
known tongue; and further says, that he gave
the Sacrament to seven or eight according to
the manner of the Church of Home in a wafer,
at Mrs. Stamford's house in Wolverhampton.
Jarvis, the other witness, swears that he bath
been at confession with lum, and hath often-
times received the Sacrament of him. Here
are two other honest men, that speak vary full
as to circumstances ; so that in the whole you
cannot have a more clear evidences and, gen-
tlemen, I must tell you, it is to these sorts of
men we owe all the troubles and hazard* we
are in, the fear of the king's life, the subversion
of our government, and the leas of our religion.
It is notorious bv what they have done, that
they are departed from the meekness and sim-
plicity of Christ's doctrine, and would bring in
a religion of blood and tyranny amongst us.
As if God Almighty were some omnipotent
mischief, that delighted and would be served
with the sacrifices of human blood. I need
not say more to you, the matter's plain ; I
2£7. The Trial of Francis Johnson, a Franciscan, at Worcester,
for High Treason : 31 Charles II. a.d. 1679. [Written by
Himself.*}
J BRING at London on All Saints-day, when
the proclamation came forth to command all
Catholics to depart from thence by the Friday
JbUttwiog, I obeyed, and came to a friend s
house in Worcestershire, not intending (o stay
(here ; but the feint's second proclamation being
pffcaeotly published, That no Catholics should
walk above five miles without being stopt, and
carried before a justice to have the oaths ten-
dered, I asked counsel of the wisest I could,
botb of Protestants (wbecnof one was a lawyer)
and another a constable, as also of Catholics,
Whether that proclamation did so strongly
oblige, ©bat it permitted me no longer to go
farther? They all concluded it was not secure
to go, so I resolved to obey, and stay where I
was, and with good reason.
First, Because all Catholics are obliged to
obey the king's commands in all tilings that are
not against our religion and conscience, and
his^oaunsuids in this nature are against neither.
Secondly, Should I have disobeyed, and have
been taken, in penalty I should have suffered,
wjuch would not have been se directly for my
conscience aod religion sake, as for disobeying
the king's command ; because in case I should
be taken by staying there in obedience to the
proclamation, and be carried before the justices
to have the oaths offered, whatever I was to
for refusing them, I should have this
* From a Pamphlet entitled ; '• A Na*ba-
tgvb of the proceedings and trial of Mr. Francis
/o*>so* a Franciscan, at Worcester, last Sum*
inssv^ssittfs, a. o. 1679; Written with his 6wn
band as followeth: To which is annexed his
Spaacbai big Braiitkuy August agjWyV"
double comfort before God/and the king; be-
fore the king, because I rather chose to stay
there, than remove against his command ; be-
fore God, because I rather chose to go to prison,
than to remove from bis law, by takhig the
oaths against my conscience — Therefore I was
taken and put in prison.
The Manner of my being taken was as fol-
loweth:
The SberifFs deputy came to the house
where I was with six or eight men, to arrest a
gentleman in the bouse for debt t The officers
coming into the house in the morning, and not
finding the person they came for, broke clown
all the doors, and among the rest mine, before
I was out of bed, and by a mistake arrested me*
instead or' the other gentleman ; and although
the deputy, coming into my chamber, looking
on me, told them they were deceived, for I was
not the man they came for; yet other soldiers
coming into my chamber, one of them said be
knew me : It seems he had been a servant in
the house seven years before, therefore he said
>he would have me to the justices, and bid his
companions secure me, and so they did, and
would not let me go out of their sight,until they
carried me before the justice ; And this they
did, without either constable, or warrant, law
or justice. /
When I came before the justice of peace, I
told him the occasion that had brought me to
him ; and if I would have taken the oaths, I
had been presently freed : But I told them
that persuaded me to take the oaths, That it waa
against the faith and religion I prtfesfed, and
again* my conscience, aid I moid never of.
TOi] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles' II. 1619— TYialqf Frantis Johnson, [*»
fend against either by so complying, whatever I
suffered for the contrary.
The justice's wife was compassionate to-
wards roe, and desiring to speak privately with
me, she used her best persuasions 10 me to
comply with what was desired of roe concern-
ing the taking the oaths, for fear of further
trouble or danger. I answered her with thanks,
and . told her. That I was sorry she had no
better opinion of me, than to think I hud pro-
fesc such a faith and religion all my life-time,
and now upon the trial could be moved with any
fear or danger (which God forbid ) I told her
it was such a faith, that in it I deposed my soul,
my confidence, heaven and eternal life, and
therefore I never did. nor (by God's grace)
never would fear to suffer for it what pleased
God; Fur who could fear even death ittelf of
the body whose life is momentary, for profes-
sion of that faith wherein he deposeth the eter-
nal life of his sout ?
This answer satisfied both her and myself,
for I was resolved to make a public profession
of my faith and religion; upon winch I return-
ed to the justice, who thought tit I should go
to another justice, wh/j was sir John Packing*
ton, * hither also he went with me.
When I came to sir John, he asked me who
I was ? I answered him, 'I was a gentleman
sufficiently known for these 20 years in Worces-
tershire to all sorts of people. He asked me of
what calling I was? I answered him, of none.
He asked me what estate I had ? I answered
I was no landed-man. Then he asked me, If
I would take the oaths? I answered, I under-
stood them not. He replied, Will you take
them, or will you not ? I told him if he, pleased
to let roe see them, 1 should return him my
answer.
. Now the reason why I desired to see the
oaths, was, because I was resolved to make a
public declaration of my faith, that thev were
* against my conscience, and therefore "by de-
claring publicly the reasons why I could not
take them, it should be publicly known, that
whatsoever I was to suflfer for not taking them,
was for no other cause but for my faith and re-
ligion, because I would not swear against 1117
conscience— For, would I have taken them, I
bad been there also freed. •
* When the oaths were brought to me, they'
told me I must read them out aloud, but 1 told
them that because it was a public place, and
macy t'«ere present of several decrees, a* well
^f the householders, a" strangers, I feared least
rending them aloud, some that heard me
Blight think I swear what I read, and so might
go and report they heard me take the oaths be-
fore the ju tices.. But they declared they
would not think so, so I read them over and
over, which when I had done, I said aloud, God
save the king; and then declared to both the
justices, and all the rest in this manner. .
I am ready to swear as followeth :
That I ever ail my life-time have been, and
now am, and ever will be to my Ust breath, as
faithful a subject to the king, ' as any subject
whatsoever, and as faithful as if I should take
the oaths now offered by them to me an hun-
dred tinieB over ; but as for taking these oaths
offered me, I could not take them whatever I
suffered, and the reason was, because I under-
stood what an oath was, and the conditions
which God has prescribed to us, before any
could call him to witness lawfully in taking of
any such oaths.
The Conditions which God has prescribed I
told them were these.
Thou shalt swear the Lord liveth in truth,
and in judgment, and in righteousness; so
that in every oath, the life ef God, the
truth of God, the judgment of God and
his righteousness, are included by all which
we swear, and the oath we take is to hare
all these conditions, truth, judgment, and
righteousness, Jerera. 4. — Therefore if I should
take these oaths which are concerning damnable
doctrines and heresies, I must call God to wit-
ness that I no more believe him to be a living
God and true God, a just and righteous God,
than I believe these things contained in the
oaths to be true, just and righteous, to swear
to which oaths I do not nor cannot in my con-
science believe to be so. For, before 1 or any
man else can understand the contents of these
oaths to be true, as to call God to witness that
1 believe them to be as true, just and righteous,
I must be able to define what is faith or heresy
in these contents I swfar to, and I must know
the full extent of all cases of this nature that
God has left to all temporal princes and their
power; I must also understand the full extent
ef all cases of this nature of power spiritual
which God hath left io his church in or over
christian kingdoms of temporal monarcht,
which power in these 'oaths I tun to swear on
the one side, and forswearing the other.
I told them I was not of capacity nor know-
ledge to set the confines to each power, or to
determine or define the extent given by God to
all in this nature, so as to swear and call God
to witness I am as sure of it, ns I am sore he
is a living God, as I roust do if I take these
oaths, the extent of which I did not understand
in my conscience to be so as to believe them ;
Therefore I could not nor would not swear to
tbem. I having spoken these things, nobody
said any more to me, but the justices going out
of the hull made my mittimus and sentence for
Worcester prison, because I would not take the
oat lis they tendered me.
I have been since called to the bar at the
sessions, where I, spake to the same effect be-
fore Judge Street, and the 'justices, as I had
spoken before to sir John Packmgton, having
first asked their leave to speak, which they gave
me for a little time, and then bid me return to
the prison.— But first they were urgent with me
to answer positively, Ay or No, was I Jesuitical
friest, or was I not? To which I answered,
t was an easy thing for me to say No, but by
saying No, I might prejudice others, ntfto here-
733]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Cuaalbs Q. 1679.— for High Trcawn.
[734
after being asked the sdme question, if they
tf d not answer No, it might be an argument
that they were guilty, if they did not deny it, as
others before them had done.— Therefore I de-
sired that what proof could be brought against
me, might be produced against me, and I
would answer for myself: But I desired I might
not be urged to answer Ay or No, to any thing,
before some witness or argument came against
me; for, I told them in such cases, neither law
of God nor man obliged any one (although he
was guilty) to bear witness against himself
without some proof were alledged against him,
for, that was no less than to be his own execu-
tioner.
The judge answered there were witnesses
would swear against me.
I answered, if witnesses could make out what
they swear of me, then my life was at the king's
mercy : But in the mean time I told them I re-
mained guiltless, though I did not answer them
to their quest iocs Ay or No, because I told them
that being my saying No in my own behalf
would not be sufficient testimony to acquit me,
therefore there was no reason why any man
should be urged to say Ay to accuse one-self
though he was guilty.
Upon this the judge sent roe to prison again
at Worcester, where uow I am, which imprison-
ment, in these times especially, when none can
send to tbeir friends, nor friends come to them,
is the best means to teach us bow to put our
confidence in God alone in ail things ; and
then he will make his promise good, That all
tilings shall be added to us, Luke 12, which
chapter, if every one would read, and make
good use of, a prison would be better than a
palace ; and a confinement for religion, and a
good conscience-sake, more pleasant than all
the liberties the world could afford. As for my
own part, God give me his grace, and all faith-
ful Christians their prayers, I am happy enough ;
and as for others, I beseech God that the evil
example of those that swear against their con-
sciences, may not be guides for the lest to fol-
low, nor their deeds a rule to their actions.
We all ought-to follow the narrow way, though
there be many difficulties in it : It is an easy
thing to run the blind way of liberty, hut God
deliver us alt from broad, sweet ways. We
know what Job saith of libertine?, They lead
tbeir lives in the goods of this world, and in a
moment they descend into hell. But, as our
Saviour saith, What' doth it profit a man to
gain the world, and lose his soul?
God gave Job a goodly increase for all the
riches he took from him, and blest his latter end
more than his beginning, and gave him 140
vears of flourishing life fur his short affliction,
in which, his constancy and faith in God was
tried ; and our Saviour promiseth an hundred
fold to all that leave goods, and every thing wil-
lingly ~for his sake. Who well considers this,
wifi be content to leave both friends aud for-
tunes, and freedom by imprisonment, for their
faith and religion- sake, till such time as it si) all
please God and the king (in obedience to whW
command they suffer) to release them. And
in the mean time they will have this comfort,
That they give a testimony they fear GoU, and,
honour the king; they fear God, because they
choose rather to suffer persecution, than swear
against their consciences; they honour the king,
because they are willing to suffer the penalties
he commands, and yet remain faithful subjects
to him, whom God Jong preserve, with his par*
liament and people, in all happiness.
On Tuesday, April 15, 1619. I came before
judge Atkins at Worcester, to have my cause
tried at the Sessions, having been committed $
months before to Worcester-Cattle by two jus-'
tices of the peace, sir John Packingtnn, and
Mr. Town son, because I refused the oaths of
supremacy and allegiance, and therefore was
suspected to be a Jesuitical Priest.
The manner of my Trial was as followetb :
Four Witnesses were brought in against me;
three of them were forced by warrant to come
in, whether they would ox no, from several
towns, and were forced to speak all that they
knew, had heard, or seen, concerning me ;
neither I, nor any of my friends knowing, that
any would be compelled so to do, before the
time of my trial was come. The fourth wit-
ness came of his own accord for lucre sake,
who, the same day that I was first brought to
Worcester prison, offered himself to swear be-
fore the mayor of the town, that I was a priest,
before ever he came to see who I was.
The Testimony which be gave against me be-
fore the judge, was this:
He swore he had been at confession with me,
and that be had received the Sacrament at my
hands about 2 years before at his father's house,
whilst he was a catholic ; and after he became
a protestant, he said I told him afterward he
should turn back from whence be bad fallen,
else he would be damned.
The other three witnesses that were forced
to come in against me, when they came before
the grand iury, and were urged to take their
oaths, to tell that which they never had known
nor seen concerning irly being a priest, they alt
unanimously declared, That they had nothing
to say against me, and that they were by vio-
lence forced to Appear there, and therefore they
said they would ne**er swear nor say any thing
against me, for they knew .nothing to accuse
me of: which when the jury he.trd, they called
for the gaoler to take the party that first denied
to swear to prison, thinking by this violent way
of proceeding so to affright them, that they
should say something, out of which advantage
should be taken against me ; which the better
to effect, they made them first lay their hands
on the Bible, and then kiss it, which they did/.
Then the jury told them, that now they were to
tell ail the truth according as they were asked*.
—First they asked whether any of them had
ever heard me read ? One answered r yes, the
Bible, and sometimes any other book. Then
they asked, Whether they bad ever seen me
fS5] STATE ifetALS, SI CwmuVL im.—Tnat tf frank Joknxm, [796
pray ? ft was answered! yes. Then they asked
what eloaths I bad on when I prayed ? And
whether I used to change my eloaths when I
came to pray ? In these and other like questions
they sifted them, to get out any thing that might
do me hurt.
But how charitable or Christian-like these
proceedings of the jury, were, let the world
judge now, as God will hereafter; for, if this be
a charitable way of proceeding among Chris-
tians, that our neighbours should by such
strange violence, as by warrant and oath be
brought against their wills from any part of
England, to swear whatever they have seen,
heard, or known of their neighbours, what hor-
rid confusions and odiums must this make
among all sorts of people both friends and foes?
—But I do not blame those three witnesses,
after they had been inconsiderately induced to
lay their hands upon the Bible, and kiss it ; I
suppose they judged themselves bound to say
what they did.
After this, when the jury had got out of tbem
what they could, the four witn'esses and I were
tailed before the jurfge. The first witness that
came to swear against me, as the custom is, re-
* peated his testimony over again before the
judge, and so did the other three that were
forced ; which when I heard how absurd ond
insignificant some of their testimonies were, I
inconsiderately smiled, at which the judge being
offended, I hambly begged his pardon, and told
him I was sorry for it. — But forasmuch as
laughing or smiling were passions of nature,
over which no man had a free course or power,
I hoped and beseeched him not to impute it to
me ; he told me he would not be displeased at
me for it. Then he asking me, whether I was
guilty, or not guilty of my accusations? and I
answering, Not Guilty, he bad me shew it, by
answering for myself; I told him I -was ready
to do it ; but told him first, I had en humble
petition to bis lordship, which was, that I de-
sired a full and free liberty without hindrance
T to answer to every objection, and plead for my-
self; I also desired he would reflect in my be-
half, that as he was to be my judge, so he was
to be my advocate. And forasmuch as all
earthly judges were to imitate the heavenly
judge, who as advocate ten thousand times miti-
gates the severity of a judge, whilst his hand of
mercy is infinitely stretched forth beyond the
hand of judgment. And therefore I begged of
his lordship, that I might find the favour of an
advocate from him, rather than the rigour of a
judge, especially iu those things which accord-
ing to law may be advantageous or. disad-
vantageous to me, which I understanding not
how to make the best use of them, desired his
lordship would vouchsafe to do it for me ; which
that the better be might be moved to do, I de-
sired be would be pleased to consider that this
my life and concerns were (in comparison of
others greater) not so much considerable, I
being but a private person, yet my little was to
me much, because my little was my all ; and
my life to me were as much as Caesar's or Solo-
mon's were to them ; and as great a rift from
God to me, as theirs to tbem ; and therefore
God has laid as great aa obligation on me to
defend myself and my life, as he bad on tbem
for theirs, and also had given to every one a
strict command not to impair or prejudice me
in the least, no more than the greatest poten-
tate. Therefore being I was now brought be-
fore him in a case, where the world as much as
concerns me, lay at stake, and my life, and my
credit, I did humbly beseech his lordship to pro-
ceed accordingly with me, as I "presumed ac-
cording to his prudence and* worth be would.
He assented to what I petitioned, and did bid
me speak for myself.
In answer therefore to the first voluntary
witness against me, I told his lordship it was
true, I bad been at such a night at his father's
house, and accordingly, as I was desired by him,
I staid all night. — But as for this witness, I was
a stranger to him, and he to me, as he confest
himself. Then the judge* asked him, whether
he knew me before or no? For be declared
publicly, that he never knew me, nor saw me*
before or since, till he saw me at Worcester,
and yet he said the nest morning he made his
confession to me, and I gave him the communion
at mass as he supposed in my chamber ; but
he said that none of all the family was present
at that time, only he and I alone; whereupon
I desired the judge to consider what possible
likelihood could be of the truth in this his af-
firmation, that I should c«me to a house where
I was acquainted with them all, father, mother,
and children, with all but this witness who as
he declared knew me not, nor ever had seen me
before, what likehood is there I should say
mass before him alone, hear his confession, and
give him the sacrament, and so go away with-
out any one of the family (with whom I was
so well acquainted) bearing, seeing, or know-
ing the least of this that past between him and
me. I therefore desired my lord to ask him,
whether I spake of confession or communion?
or what I said to him when I gave it him ? or
Vhether I told him I would give him the sacra-
meut? which when the judge had asked him,
be answered, that indeed I never had spoken
to him either about confession or communion
to come to either ; neither did he know what I
said to him, when I gave him bread like a
wafer; but he of his owu accord did desire
me to hear his confession, and give him the
wafer which he took. — Whereupon the judge
asked how it came to pass that he, never hav-
ing known nor seen me before, nor I spoke with
him about confession or communion, how could
he now tell who I was, or how could he desire
such'a thing of me who was a mere stranger
to him, neither of us knowing any thing of one
another's condition ; sure, said the judge, we do
not give the commuinon on such terms.— -To
which he answered, that bis father had told him
that if be would-be might confess to me, and
that I wouM give him the communion.— So al-
though he had sworn before, that none in the
house was witness or saw him confess' or re-
7
WTJ
STATE. TJUAI& 31 Crakes IL l&19.~for High Treatm.
im
ceive, yet rather then be confounded, he would
bring his father into confusion, and accuse him
as guilty of being the cause of what he did, which
ought be the ruin of his family.
But the judge taking no notice of what be
had accused his father, spake to roe, and told
me, by this it might appear, that I had taken
upon roe what belonged to the priests office,
by hearing bis confession, aud giving him the
wafer. To which I replied, that with his leave,
I would make it appear, that all which this
witness bad said against me, did not at all
prove me to be a priest, or to bare taken the
office of a priest upon ine : for all he said I had
done, I might do it lawfully though no priest,
so mi^bt other men that never were nor would
be priests do the same, as many thousands bad
done and did do through tlie world. He asked
me how I could prove that ? I aoswered, as to
bis confession be spoke of, in the nature he de-
clared it, it was only an act of charity for me
to do as I did, and every christian's duty -obli-
ges every man to do the same that be said I
had done for him, and the same was practised
by all sects whatsoever, that never knew what
belonged to priesthood ; For, if our neighbour
have any thing that perplexed bit mind, there
is no better way to ease it, than by speaking
of it to any whom he supposed might know
how to take away or mitigate his grievances by
counsel or advice ; And therefore this witness
fcaviog understood something from his father,
that might move him to confide in me, came of
his own accord, as he said he did, to impart
his mind to me, and therefore I should not
have fulfilled christian duty, if I should have
alighted his trouble, and not have given him
leave to ease his mind to me, and, in the best
way I could, endeavour to assist him, and di-
vert his trouble, though I was a stranger, being
that he of his own accord, as he said, came to
aae for that intent, and therefore I desired the
judge to ask him, if it were otherwise than
what I -had told his lordship ?
The judge replied that I went further ; for,
aa he says, I give him the wafer or communion.
I answered, that buppose I had given him the
wafer or communion (which whether I did or
no I was not certain) vet according to his own
word, this could no way prove that I save him
the sacrament; for, let him speak if I told him
it was so ; or let him declare if I said any thing
to bim concerning the communion, or what
I said ; he could not say I did, only I gave~him
something; therefore I told the judge, that if
he pleased to give me leave, I would tell his
lordship what practice ever had been, and is
constantly used in the catholic church through-
out the world, in giving hallowed bread or wa-
ter, which is nothing belonging to the commu-
nion or sacrament; for I told my lord, as there
was holy water kept in all private houses, as
well as in the chapels, and places of prayer,
so there was also holy bread, and, sometimes'
of the same nature as the wafer or the com-
munioo, and of this as well as of the other sort
of bread, was on Sundays, and other certain
VOL. VII,
days not consecrated as the communion, bus
only blessed as holy water by the word and
prayer, and so distributed to men, women, and
little children, of two or th«e years old ; and
such like hallowed bread thousands of, men,
women and children, take, and may carry
about them, and keep in their houses* and eat
it at any time, and give it when, and to whom
they would, to children, or others ; and for my
part, I have many times in my life taken it
from others at any time ; when I had it, or was
in any private house where J fonnd it, I have
taken it to eat myself, and given it to any man,
woman, or child, sometime they desiring it,
sometime of my own accord I gave it, and so
possibly I have given it to the man that witnes-
seth here against rue ; and if he know the con-
trary, but that it was as 1 said, I desire that
he would speak; But he had nothing to say of
me to the contrary.
I appealed to my lord to judge whether this
testimony, or any other testimony this witness
brought against me, were of any force or value y
to make me guilty in this matter, which no ways
could be made out against me.
J proceeded therefore to answer his third ac-
cusation against, me, which was, that I should
have told him, that if he did not return to
the faith from whence be bad fallen, he would
be damned. To this* my answer to my lord
was, that I had all my life time been so fearful
of such rash judgment, that I do declare it in
the presence of God, as I did before him, that
I had rather dye, than presume to pronounce
the sentence of damnation against any man ;
but I told his lordship, that if he pleased to
give me leave, I would relate what I had said
to him, and others, upon the like occasion,,
which the judge being willing to hear, I told
him, that I being at this man's mother in law's
house, who was of no religion, no more than
this witness, and the mother desiring to bear
what catholics held, and the reasons for wluch
we believe such points of faith, I told her what
we held, and shewed her the proofs for what
we held in her own Bible, and when she made
any difficulty whether such texts of scripture
were to be understood as we understood them, or
in any other sense, I shewed her out of the Pro-
testant Practice of Piety, and outof the Protestant
Common Prayer Book, that not only catholics,
but all protestants understood them in 6uch a
sense ; and she having those books by her, I
turned those places to her to read in x her own
books, and so she did, and yet neither the Bible,
nor Common Prayer Jtaoks, nor Practice of Piety
could satisfy, or make her believe; whereupon
I told her, that if she were a christian, she
must believe something; for, as she believed,
so she should be saved: — I told her also what
the Bible declared to her, that without faith it
was impossible to please God, and I bade her
consider the text that saith, whatsoever is not
of faith is sin; as also the txet that saith, the
just man iiveth by faith, and desired her to
' read those words of our Saviour, where he saith
| he that believeth shall be saved, .but he tfcat
t 3 B
T39] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Ciabui II. 1 679.— Trial of Fraud* Johnson, [74=0
the like questions of the old man, the formes*
witness, to all which they were both, very unwil-
ling to answer ; for which some of the rude
people curst' jhe old man for an old denting
fellow, and were as much vexed at the young
woman, because she was so dejected, that she
could not speak, bat looked like one that was
half dead, as some of the people said in anger
she was so. The judge perceiving in what con-
dition she was, said aloud, What men are these
priests that have such power over people, that
they are not able to speak against them ; he)
therefore bid them remember they were in the)
presence of God, and were bound in conscience)
to speak the truth of what they bad heard or
seen ; so at last they owned that I bed read ia
believetb not shall be damned; which she did
read ; and this witness being then present, and
I saying the same then before him, I suppose,
from this text, he a%cused me that I should say,
he would be damned, because I repeated, and
shewed them our Saviours words, as they ap-
pear in that place of Scripture.
I having thus answered all the testimonies this
witness could bring in against me, I referred
myself to his lordship, and all the bench to
judge whether any thing this witness had said
against me, would make me guilty : the judge
said bat little to it, but called for the next wit-
ness (who was rather to this first) who was
so much grieved at the proceedings of his un-
gracious son that he could not forbear to shed
tears all the time that his son produced such
accusations against me ; so that he appeared
more witness against his son's ungodliness, than
a witness against me : yet the judge asked him
many questions, whether he had ever heard,
seen, or known any such or such things of or
from me : to all which questions he answered
no, he knew nothing against me ; so that the
judge seeing he shewed so much kindness, he
asked him what he was ? He answered, a ca-
tholic ; whereupon the judge bade him go away,
saying, he was too much my friend, and there-
fore he would not accept of him as a witness,
but called the third. Tins witness was an old
man, and very deaf, who was forced to come
against jne by a warrant, swore against his will :
the judge asked him several questions, whether
he heard me say any prayers ; he answered, yes,
but he could not well understand or hear what
they were, because he was so deaf; he asked them
whether they were English or Latin ? he ans-
wered, he could not well tell, he thought it was
both ; and I think, it might be neither, for
ought he could hear, he was so very deaf: then
he asked him what cloaths I had on ? he ans-
wered, he could not well tell; I had something
en that was white, a surplice bethought; and
the judge was willing to suppose this to be a
priest's habit at mass, or when he gave the sa-
crament; but I told his lordship, that this coold
be no proof of any such matter, because, all
over the world, among Catholics, such garments
were worn by thousands in time of prayer, who
never were, nor will be priests, as is well known
fc$ those that have been* travellers : and I told
bis lordship, that if he pleased to call for them
there may be several travellers, of several sects
and opinions present in the hall, that would be
sufficient witnesses as well of this, as of the
holy bread and water, which the other witness
as well as this old man said I had given them,
which they suppose to be the sacrament ; but
the judge would call for none, but called for
the fourth witness. This witness was a young
woman, who was also by violence forced to
come and swear what she had heard, seen or
known concerning me about the matter in ques-
tion. The judge asked ber whether I had
taught her any thing, whether she had been at
bohretsion or communion, what I said to her,
what penance J gave her; and ho asked also
1
the bible, end other books to them, and that
they had comfest.what troubled them, and had
received something like a wafer from me, and
that they had believed what I bad read to them ;
yet they both declared publicly, that I did not
bid them come to confession, or take the wafer
or bread ; and when they took it that I did
not tell them it was the sacrament, neither did
they know whether it was or no : by all which it
appeared according to the letter of the law,
and in conscience, that none of these testimo-
nies were of sufficient force to make me guilty.
A man's life is not to be taken away upon sur-
mises, or possibilities, that this might be the)
communion, as well as other holy bread. For
the law requires, that it must be proved that
there was an administration of the sacrament
by one that bad taken orders from a foreign
power ; of taking orders there was not the least
accusation mentioned against me by any of the
witnesses, much less could it be proved, no nog
so much that I pretended to give the sacrament
any more than it might be holy water, or holy
bread, as I desired my lord to consider; net*
ther was it the wearing of a surplice that could
prove I said mass; for priests never wear sur«
plices at mass : and if a man's wearing a sur-
plice at prayer, prove him a priest, then all the
singing-boys in every Protestant Cathedral
Church, and in all other churches in Christen-
dom, all those boys, though bat of ten or twelve
years of age, must be by consequence all po-
pish priests ; and all Jews who constantly in sy-
nagogues put on a white garment like a surplice*
as I and ail travellers have seen them do when
we have gone to see them pray : all these Jews
must be Romish Priests : — Out of all which it
evidently appears that none of these testimo-
nies the witnesses brought against me, were any
way concluding according to justice to mak<r
me guilty of being a priest.
As for my reading the bible to them, or m
satisfying them in what they doubted, or bidding
them say their prayers, and particularly the
Lord's prayer, which the last two witnesses to.d
the judge I bad done, and the Irte (he fearing
to answer to all the questions he asked them)
to these I answered, that I own I had done so j
whereupon the judge said, that out of thia it
appeared, that I had taken upon me the priest's,
office* I told him, that with his leave I would
741J
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL 1679.-/or High Trtaton.
shew bow it did no wars follow ; for, out of this
it only followed, that I bad done the duty of a
good christian, and every man in the like cir-
cumstances is bound as a christian to do the
like that I had done . I told him, that they,
doubting of such things, and desiring me to
ehew them if such places were in the oible, or
not, and desiring to know what I did believe of
those points, and the reasons why I believed
them, I turned to such places in the bible, and
read it to them, and bid them read the same
themselves, which they did, and so were sa^
tisfied. And I told my Lord, for what I had done
I had the scripture warrant, aud scripture com-
mand also to do it, and so had every christian
command to do the like ; for the scripture com*
mands all to be ready to give an answer to
every man concerning the reason of the hope
which is within us, and this I had done to them,
or to any other that had asked me as they did.
But I told my Lard withal, that I knowing the
statute of persuasion, bad always so much re-
gard to that, when any would discourse With
me concerning my faith, or their's, I told tbem,
that (being there was such a statute as the sta-
tute of persuasion) though I was bound to give
them an account of my faith and hope, if for
conscience sake they asked me, yet I told them
I would not incur the penalty of that statute by
using any force or persuasion against their con-
sciences; for violent forcing of consciences
was against the law of God ; yet I told them
what I did believe, and shewed them the places
of scripture on which my faith was grounded,
according as they desired me to do for them,
and then I would leave it to God and their own
consciences ; and if they did not believe those
texts, I bad no more to sa; to them ; and if
they did believe them, they best knew before
God and their consciences what they had to do ;
so that it was not my persuasion, but God and
their souls salvation that was to determine them
in the belief of what they read in the bible :
and I bade them bear witness that I told them
thus, if in case we should ever be called in
question before any judge ; and thus I have
discoursed, as several would bear witness for
I told his lordship this was true, and so
me.
those witnesses; for, they declared pub-
licly what I said was true, whereupon I diet ap-
peal to my lord, if I was not innocent in this
point ; and as for my bidding tbem say their
prayers, or when they desired to ease their
minds by declaring what troubled them, I de-
sired to clear myself by asking ray lord, with
his leave, what nation or sect in the world ought
not, and did not counsel and wish their neigh-
bours in their troubles to ease themselves by
prayer to God ; and much more every good
christian ought, when he understood that his
brother bad acted the prodigal son, offended
sis Heavenly Father, and therefore was troubled
in conscience, ought, J say, ro persuade him
to return by repentance, and beg mercy of our
father which is in heaven : I having done no
more but this, have only done a pious christian
duty to amy neighbours, which any man, though
[74*
no priest, may and ought to do the seme. I
having pleaded these things for myself, the judge
was pleased to tell me, I had a nimble tongue,
and wit, and that by those discourses I strove
to make the jury attend more to my pleading
k for myself, than to the witnesses arguments
against me: to which I replied, I spoke nothing
but truth, which I ought to do to defend myself
against my enemies, therefore I hoped his lord-
ship would not be offended: but if I nave exceed*
ed (as his lordship said I did) because I hindered
him from speaking, I humbly craved his pardon,
and hoped I should obtain it, being my con-
cerns and reasons to plead, as I did, were of no
less consequence than life and death.
But for all this the judge told the jury, that
they were to consider the accusations of the
witnesses against me, as having done such and
such things which priests use to do ; neither
was it necessary that the witnesses should
prote me to have taken orders from foreign
power, and so to prove me positively to be a
priest ; for that (they not having seen me take
orders) they could not do, but it was sufficient
they had seen me do such things, by which it
might be presumed it was so. Whereupon I
answered, that there was pever a proof yet
•Hedged, that did or could make that appear
or be sufficient to conclude me to be so, and
therefore I was no more guilty than many
thousands, of whom all these things alledged
against me might be verified, who never were
nor would be priests, as I had sufficiently
shewed, why therefore should they be thought
sufficient to conclude against me. I therefore
desired the judge, before he sent out the jury,
he would give me leave to speak a word or two
to tbem. He answered no, he would not. * I
then desired his lordship would give me leave
to speak again to him before them, ere they
went out ; to which he assented : I therefore
desired his lordship to give me leaye to ask
this question of him, which the jury might hear.
Suppose all the proofs which had been by. all
the witnesses brought against me, were to be
alledged against the jury, or some of them, so
that if the arguments were judged by them to
be of force or concluding, some of those of the
jury should lose pert of their estates and credit,
and being in some danger of their Jives, who of
all the jury on whom this peril were like to fall,
would judge those arguments alledged againsf
me, sufficient to condemn them to the loss of
part of their estates, or part of their credit
with some danger of their lives ? I therefore
desired it might be considered, that my all lay
at stake, all my concerns in. the world ; credit
and life not only in .some danger, but certainly
to be condemned, if those arguments brought
in by them against me should be judged to be
of force. Therefore I desired they would deal
by me as if it were their own case, according as
I had proposed it to them, and so I should give
no further trouble in speaking, being it was not
judged fit I should say any more (as 1 had de-
sired) to the jury.
I had oply one favour more to beg of the
T43J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1G7&— ftu/ tf Francis Johnson, [744
judge before they went put, which was, that
his lordship would read a paper before them
which I had ready, whereby I could prove,
that the first and chiefest witness against me,
which was Rogers, ought not injustice to be ad-
mitted as a competent witness against me,
as the writing I offered the judge would shew ;
which writing I gave to the judge, and he read
it over privately to himself, and seeing the hand
of hiin that wrote it at the bottom, who offered
to swear for me against Rogers, the judge
asked where this witness for me was, and why
I had htm not ready ? I answered ne was bard
by in the prison for debt, if he pleased to send
for him ; but the judge would not send for him.
I then desired the judge that at least I or any
else here present, might read my ^aper pub-
licly, that nil might know it was true, that I
had such a sufficient witness for me against
Rogers; but the judge neither would let me,
nor any else read it openly, but however I made
bold to tell publicly all the contents of the
paper, which were word for word as the
witness wrote it with his own band and name
at the bottom ; thus—
" Memorandum, That upon the 12th of De-
cember last past, or thereabouts, came three
tnen to the castle of Worcester, and as they
came up the stairs, Rogers desires one of them
to call for one Mr. Johnson, and see if he
would answer to that name or not ; and en-
tering into the room, he asked where was Mr.
Johnson, and which was he, though be was at
that time present in the room, and none else
but one man and myself drinking at the door,
and in my conscience knew him not.
(In witness to this I will lay down my oath.)
Henry Holland."
By this it may appear, that if the judge would
let my witness appear to have sworn, I might
have cast Rogers, the chief witness against me;
and why it was not granted, let all that hear it
judge. However, 1 still contiuued to plead,
that all proofs a Hedged against me were insuffi-
cient, which I can make appear even in the
judge's own opinion, though I did not tell hiin
so ; for you must know, that before in his cir-
curt, though witnesses swore against a gentle-
man f whom they would have proved a priest)
that tney saw him marry people and baptize,
which are the actions of a prie3r, yet the judge
declared, that because these actions might be
done by such as were no priests, as w,ell as by
priests, as ir appeared, because justices of the
peace married people in Cromwell's time, and
any roan or woman might at some times
christen children ; therefore such common ac-
tions, as he declared, could not prove the ac-
cused gentleman to be a priest for doing them,
and thereupon the judge freed him.
Whereupon I infer, That all the actions the
witnesses swear they saw me do, as wearing a
Surplice, giving the water, exhorting to prayer,
shewing points out of the Bible, hearing others
grievances, which they of themselves declared
to me, and the like, being these are things done
as well by those that were no priests, as by
priests ; according to the judge's own opinion,
these actions ought not to have been judged
sufficient proofs against me, no more than such
actions were judged sufficient against other
gentlemen ; although I did not alledge this to
the judge, yet it was sufficient he knew it, and
might, if he had pleased, done with me accord-
ingly, though he did not, but sending the jury
out, sent me from the bar.
J being afterward called again to the bar,
and it being declared unto me, that the jury
had found roe guilty, the bill was read against
me ; and then I was asked what I had to say
for myself, why I should not die, that I might
speak before the sentence of death past against
me. To which I answered, I only desired to
know for what I was to die ; for I have shewed
that all things alledged against me heretofore,
were insufficient to prove me a priest, or take
away my life.
The judge answered, That the jury had
found me guilty, and that now there was no
more to be said concerning the proof, but that
I was to be condemned as a pnest.
To which I replied, That though the jury had
found me Guilty, yet I was still innocent from
any guilt of death, and with his lordship's per-
mission I would prove it. He asked me how?
I answered, thus ; I had not been out of Eng-
land, to take any orders from foreign power
since the king's restoration to his crown, neither
had I any opportunity to take any orders in
England ; therefore if I were a priest, I was so
before his majesty came into England : but
whatever I had done before the king came into
England, cannot make me now Guilty, sup-
posing I had transgressed the law before, be-
cause his ^majesty before his return, put out
several proclamations, that none should ever
be troubled for their religion, or conscience-
sake ; and since his coining into England, he
had done the same by several proclamations :
and what was yet more, not long since, had set
forth his declaration, that every one should
freely practise bis own religion of what sect or
persuasion soever, which declaration, if I were
a priest, I might safely rely on, as well as all
others. To which the judge replied, where
had I the seal to that declaration f I answered,
I never questioned but that a subject might
take his king's word declared in his public pro-
clamation without his seal. The judge an-
swered, However if I were a priest now id
England, I was guilty. I replied, That suppos-
ing I had formerly taken orders before the
king came to England, I could not altogether
degrade myself, or be otherwise now, than' what
I was ordained then ; therefore if I were a
priest, I cannot now be guilty for it, because
all that eves was done before the king's restor-
ation, in what respect soever, was all forgiven
and blotted out by the king's general pardon to
all subjects, even to those who had a hand in
the death of his royal Father, and so the Ca-
tholics for their religion were not excluded pal
STATO TRIALS, SI Chailbs II. 1079.-/or High Trtam*. [746
I told them, I was as ready by Odd's grace .to
(lie to-morrow, m I had been to receive the
sentence of death to day, and as willingly as if
I had a grant of the greatest dukedom : so we
sate talking half an boar, and I_ returned to
the prison, there to remain, as long as it pleased
God and the kiog, whom God long preserve lift
all happiness.
There was another objection which I forgot
to put in, until 1 had finished the former wri-
ting, and it was an objection which the judge
was pleased to put against me himself, and it
was that 1 had changed my name, and went
in several! places by several names.
To which I answered, the reason was, be*
cause in Cromwell's time, in the great troubles,
our family suffered much, my father was impri-
soned and a fellow prisoner with sir Thomas Ash-
ton, both confined together, which sir Thomas
is now one of his majesty's admirals of the fleet.
And for my own part, I going beyond sea to
travel, I changed my name ; and then coming
into England again before the king's restoration,
I was glad to conceal myself, and go by several
names, as many others of the king's loyal sob*
jects did, the better to be able to do his ma-
jesty the best service I could, which accord*
ing to my small ability,! did endeavour both
before and since the king came into £nglaso\
like a dutiful subject, and like the rest of our
family who all endeavoured to serve his ma*
jesty : for I have two brothers served him, the
one a volunteer at sea in sir William Reeves
ship, which sir William was killed in the last
engagement with the Dutch ; and the other
brother had a command under his royal high-
ness the duke of York at land: therefore I hope
the changing of my name on such an occasion
as I did, could not be imputed as a guilt upon
me, npr speak me other than a dutiful subject ;
which I could have made further appear be-
fore the bench, but I did not judge it conveni-
ent to say any more to the judge there in pub-
lic. But before his lordship went out of Wor-
cester, I presented him with a petition, to ac-
quaint bis lordship, that I having jiad the honour
to kiss his majesty's hand, before his restora-
tion, in the Low-Countries ; as also I have had
the honour to be one of those whom his majesty
was pleased to grace with being entertained
by us, his then best subjects ; his majesty was
pleased to make us a gracious promise, that
when it should please God to restore him to his
crown, we should not live so in banishment as
then we did. Of this in my petition I did ac-
quaint thejudge, and beseeehed him that he
would be pleased, by declaring this to the king,
to endeavour to obtain some gracioas favour
from his majesry for me, my eondition now
being such, that I could never have greater
need to he partaker of his gracioas promise and
clemency.
The judge promised me he would make an
address to his majesty for me in this behalf
which whether he hath done or no* I wish some
body may put him in mind to do it for me. I
do not here mention the place where in perfl>
745]
of the general pardon ; wherefore I told his
lordship I was not guilty.
Whereupon he told me I was guilty, and pre-
sumed far to plead so resolutely, and with such
confidence before him and all the Bench.
I craved his pardon for my fault, but de-
sired his lordship to consider, that I was bid
speak if I had any thing1 to say for myself, be-
fore the sentence of Heath pest against me, and
therefore I had reason to plead home, since
this was the last time I was like to speak for
my life in this world, which I hope his lordship
and the bench would consider ; but if notwith-
standing so many proclamations, grants for
liberty of conscience, and his majesty's general
pardon to all who had relied on them, if all this
would not secure me, but my believing those
things had caused me to err, and my error must
cause me to lose my life, I had no more to say.
So the judge sat down, and pronounced
against me the sentence of death, That I should
be drawn, hanged, and quartered, dtsbowelled,
my in trails burnt, my head cut off, my body to
be cm in f >ur quarters, and my quarters to
be at the king's disposal.
Which sentence being pronounced, I bowed,
and said aloud, Thanks be ro God, God save
the king ; and I beseech God to bless your
lordship, and all this honourable Bench.
The judge replied, You have spoken very
well, I do not intend you shall die, at least not
for the present, until I know the king's further
pleasure.
I was not, I thank God for it, troubled with
any disturbing thoughts either against the judge
lor his sentence, nor the jury that gave in such
a verdict, nor against any of the witnesses ; for
I was then of the same mind, as by God's
grace I ever shall be, esteeming them all the
best friends to me in all they did or said that
ever I had in my life, or ever shall have, except
topon the like occasion. And I was, I thank
God, so present with myself, whilst the judge
pronounced the sentence to deliver me to
death, that without any concern for any thing
id this world, 1 did actually at the same time
offer myself and the world to God.
After the judge was gone from the bench to
the other end of the hall, I stayed with the
keeper in the hall, where several Protestant
gentlemen, and others, who had heard my
trial, came to me, though strangers, and told
me how sorry they were for me. To whom,
with thanks, I replied, that I was troubled they
should grieve forme, or my condition, who was
joyful for it myself; for I told them I had pro-
fessed this faith and religion all my life-time,
' which I was as sure to be true, as I was sure
of the truth of God's word on which it was
grounded, and therefore in it I deposed my
soul, and eternal life and happiness ; and
therefore should 1 fear to lose my temporal life
for this faith, whereon my eternal life depends,
I were worse than an infidel ; and whosoever
Should prefer the life of their bodies before
their faith, their religion, or conscience, they
were worse than heathens. For my own part
T47] STATE TRIALS, SI Chahles II. 1679^-Trud tf Franeis Johnson, [7*8
•color, nor the other persons to whom his ma-
jesty made that promise, if you remember, you
know I did tell you, with several other particu-
lar circumstances, which I need not here make
any further mention of.
The Last Speech of Mr. Francis Johnson,
Priest, of the order of St. Francis, who
was executed (as a driest only) at Worces-
ter, upon the 23d of August, a. d. 1679.
Which he spake, for the most part upon
the ladder, immediately before nis execu-
tion, (but being interrupted) and that
which he did speak, being taken by an un-
skilful scribe, was printed by the halves,
and so imperfect, that it was in some places
nonsense. To correct that abuse this
which he spake is published by a friend.
Almighty God, out of bis infinite goodness
to this world, through ' the merits of his Son
Christ Jesus, ordained or made choice of three
virtues whereby we most walk, which are these,
viz. Faith, Hope, and Charity. First, by virtue
of faith, we are to believe all things that are
done in this world; Secondly, by virtue of
Hope, we are to believe and hope for all things
in another world. And the reason why Chris-
tians do believe this hope, is to bring and con-
duct them to salvation in the other world.
And if we hope in God, we cannot but believe
God : for with the mouth confession is made,
but with the heart (and through faith) we must
believe unto salvation ; so that faith is not to be
trodden under foot, or to be hid under a bushel,
but to be set upon a candlestick, Luke 12,
* Whosoever doth confess me' before men, him
* will I confess before the augels of God ;' and
therefore all are bound to believe that there is
but one faith ; and if but one faith, then but
one christian faith. There is but one faith,
one Lord, ooe baptism ; if it be so, how can this
stand with to many sectaries as there are ? If
there be but one faith, how can this be ?
I believe the creed of St, Athanasius^(wbich
k in your common prayer-book) there it is said,
4 that whosoever will be saved, it is necessary
4 before all things that he hold the Catholic
* faith ; and that if he keep not that faith whole
4 and undefiled, he shall perish everlastingly/
And as St. James saith, Jam. ii. 10. * He that
' keepeth the whole law, and vet offended) in
* one point is guilty of all ;' so they that believe,
must be all of the same faith. And that this ought
to be done, I appeal to all the saints that are
gone before, of whom it is said, * that their faith
< was such, as by it they stopt the mouths of lions,
* they turned the edge of the sword, and eaused
1 the fire to cease that it should not burn ;
' so they were oppressed they wandered about
4 in sheeps-cloathing and goats cloathing,' Heb,
xi. Therefore I say there muat^be an unity of
faith.
I desire all Catholics to consider this, that
it is better to be reviled by man now in this
world, than be reviled by God in the world to
come. Mat. xvL it is said the Catholic church
is built upon a rock* And Mat. xviii. he who
will not believe the church Jet him be as a
heathen and publican.
This faith must be established so in every
one, because Christ said, He would send this
Holy Ghost, and he will shew as, or them,
what to do. This is the rule of faith : This
faith was published at Rome. And St. Paul
writing to the Christians there, rejoiceth that
their faith was renowned in the whole world.
* Go ye therefore, baptizing all nations in the
' name of the Father/ And this is the faith I
confess and believe in, and which I die for.
I come now to speak of the second virtue,
which is hope. I hope I shall have such re-
ward, * that neither eye hath seen, nor ear
1 heard, nor can it enter into the heart of man
' to conceive/ Those that have hope, shall be
as Mount Sion, that shall not be removed ;
those that have firm hope, there is nothing can
disturb them ; as David saith, * God is round
' about those that do hope in him, at the
' mountains are round about Hierusalem.'
I come to the third virtue, and that is cha-
rity. It is true, now this body of mine in this
shipwreck is full of sin, but when that ship-
wreck is over, I shall come to inherit that rock
that shall never fail. Now welcome shipwreck
that makes the body suffer, but brings the soul
to that haven which is joyful.
Now many there be that talk much of cha-
rity, few understand it, and fewer that practise
itv This is the greatest virtue, 1 Cor. xiii.
' Though ye speak with tongues of men and
6 angels, and have not charity, it availeth uo-
' thing.' So then we ought to have love and
charity, or else it prevaileth nothing.
It is expected I should say something of the
Plot. As to this, I shall declare two points of
my faith.
First, I believe that all are bound to obey
the king's laws.
Secondly, I do declare, that those that do
break the law in word, or any action, or that
do act any thing against his majesty's life, that
is a sin unto damnation, as much as it was a sio
in Judas to betray Christ.
An oath is a taking God to witness, and is
as much as if he took his life and justice to
stake. So that he who takes a raise oath, is
guilty of destroying the life of God and his jus-
tice, and of his own damnation. And if I were
but guilty of this, I do declare, that all the sin
of damnation would fall upon me, because I
denied the truth, and so struck at God by my
sin, in denying the truth ; that is one damna-
tion.
A second damnation is, that if any man know
of an evil against bis majesty, his kingdom and
nation, and to hide and not discover it, he shall
answer for those mischiefs that come thereby ;
so that a man would have made and committed
as many sins, as there be men in England that
had suffered.
A third damnation is to die in this lie and
with this perjury in his mouth ; whereby be
loses heaven and all its enjoyments, and diet
in greater sins than the devils themselves.
740)
STATE TRIALS/ 31 Cmaeles II. 1679.— /or High Treason.
[750
Fourthly, I should have been guilty of my
own death ; For that Judge Atkins offered me
my life if I would confess what I knew of the
Plot, which bad I known, and not discovered,
would have made me the cause of my own
death, which would have been a fourth damna-
tion.
I would have said more, but that I gave my
speech to a friend to be printed.
Mr. Sheriff. I pray, Sir, speak on what you
have to say, and none shall interrupt you.
Mr. Johnson. Now I have no more to do
but to make my address to Almighty God, with
all the powers of my soul, that f may have his
mercy and pardon of my sins ; and therefore I
beg that all Catholics who join in union of this
same faith, would make an address unto God
forme, that 'we may receive pardon for our
tins. I have nothing now but wishes led* I
wish I may imitate David in bis repentance,
and ' that my eyes may run down with tears,
* because I have not kept God's law/ I wish
witn%the prophet Jeremiah, that 'Rivers of
* waters may fall from my eyes, by reason of
* sin.' lam. iii. 48.
a But tears will not be proper for me at this
time; I have kept myself from them, lest by
shedding tears, some might say I was unwilling
te> die, or feared death : but instead of tears, I
ofler all the blood in my veins, and I wish
•very drop were an ocean, and I would offer it
op to God. I wish I might become a man like
David. I wish I had Mary Magdalen's peni-
tential tears ; I wish I had ber arms to em-
brace the feet of mercy. I wish I had all the
graces of saints and angels, I would offer them
all to God for the remission of my sin. This is
niy desire, and this I wish for as much as is in
I offer first my life, mid I beseech and desire
of God to turn his face from my sins, but not
from me. I offer up my life in satisfaction for
my sins, and for the Catholic Cause. And I
beg for those that be mine enemies in this my
death, and I desire to have them forgiven, be-
cause I go to that world of happiness'sooner than
I should have gone. And 1 humbly beg par-
don from God and the world : and tbis I beg
for the merits and mercy of Jesus Christ.
I beseech God to bless his majesty, to give
him a long life and a happy reign in this world,
mod in the world to come.
I beseech God to bless all my benefactors,
and all my friends, and those that have been any
way under my charge.
I beseech God to bless all Catholics and tin*
nation, and his majesty's privy council, and
grant that they may act no- otherwise than
what may be for the glory of God, who will
bring to light and to judgment all both good
and evil, Luke xii. So I beseech God that he
will give them grace to serve him.
I beseech God to bless the parliament that
is now in election, that they may determine no-
thing, but what they themselves do hope to be
judged by at the last day.
I beseech God to bless all that suffer under
this persecution, and to turn this our captivity
into joy ; that they who now sow in tears, may
reap in joy.
I beseech God to accept the death of my body
and to receive my soul.
I have no more to say.
Mr. Sheriff I give you no interruption ;
but only whereas you said, that you died for
the' faith, that is not so, you do not die for
that, but because you, being his majesty's sub-
ject, received orders from the Church of Rome
beyond the seas, and came again into England,
contrary to the law.
Mr. Johnson. That was pardoried by the
king's act of grace.
Mr. Sheriff That act pardoned only crimes
committed before the making of it, but not
those done since, as your continuance in Eng-
land was.
Mr. Johnson. I am sorry if I have given of-
fence in any thing I have said ; my reason for
it was, because when I was sent for to the
judges upon Sunday night, Judge Atkins told
me, I died not for being concerned in the Plot,
but for being a priest.
Mr. Sheriff. No, but for your continuance
in England against the law, being a priest.
Mr. Johnson. God receive my soul.
Mr. Sheriff. Sir, you may take your own
time, and you shall have no interruption ; Sir,
will you be pleased to have your own time ?
Jailor. Sir, pray give the sign when you please
to be turned off.
Mr. Johnson. I will give you no sign, do it
when you will.
And so he was executed.
Mr. Johnson was of an honourable family in
Norfolk, born to an estate of some hundreds
:per annum, all which he left for the sake of re-
ligion. His third brother's son now enjoys the
estate.
Mr. Johvsok's Speech, which he delivered to
his Friend to be printed (as he mentioned
at the place of Execution.)
Advertisement. — Mr. Johnson's Trial, and
what he spoke at his Execution, being finished
there came to the Printer's hands his Speech at
large (of which bis foregoing words are only the
heads) as the Reader will see, and as Mr. John-
son also mentions, viz. (I would have said more,
but that I gave my Speech to a friend to be
printed) therefore his friend has now faithfully
published it accordingly, being written by Mr*
Johnson himself, as fofloweih ;
God Almighty (honoured friends) having
been pleased of his infiuite mercy through the
merits of our Saviour Jesus Christ, to bestow
on all Christians the theological virtues of Faith,
Hope and Charity, by virtue of faith all are to
believe whatever God hath revealed to us in
this, world, and by hope all are to expect what
he hath promised we shall receive in the world
to come.
And because, where, God bestows such a
faith and hope, it is in order to bring ail to a
751] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679 Trial of Francis Johnson, [752
true charity and love of him ; for who can
have faith to believe an infinite goodness in
which he hopes, but he must love that infinite
goodness in whom be hopes, which bestows on
him such gifts ? Therefore ail ought to honour
God; and shew their love to him by a due pro-
fession, and a due practice of this faith, this
hope and this charity, otherwise they cannot be
saved, because, as St. Paul saith, " With the
heart it is believed to righteousness, but with
the mouth confession is made to salvation/7
Rom. x. 10.
For those that will not shew their faith,
which is a light not to be hid under a bushel,
but to be set ip a candlestick, to give' light to
all, such can never have neither true hope for
themselves, nor true charity towards God, or
their neighbour, nor God to tbem, because our
Saviour saith, Luke xii. " He that confesseth me
before men, him will the Son of Man confess
before the angels of God ; but be that denieth
me before men" (as those do that act or swear
against their conscience) " him will the Son of
Mao deny before the angels of God."
And as all are bound to confess him, and
his faith ; to likewise all are obliged to own
and profess that this faith can be but one only
faith, as we are taught, Ephes. iv. where St.
Paul declares, " There is one Lord, one faith,
one baptism, one God, even as yon are cal-
led," saith he, " in one hope of your calling."
This beins; most true, let every rational Chris-
tian, in his most retired thoughts, consider how.
this unity of faith, and this hope of our calling
can stand with such multiplicity of sects and
opinions, also divers one against the other, with
which the nation now so abounds : For accord-
ing to the text, a man may as well say, there
are diversities of Gods, or diversities of Christs,
-as that there are diversities of faiths, be-
cause faith is nothing but the truth of one God,
which truth or faith be hath revealed, which
none can alter.
We are all therefore bound to believe alike,
in one faith, and in one Holy Catholic Church, as
our Creed teacheth us ; we are all obliged to
believe in one catholic faith, as the Creed of
St. Athanasius in the Protestant Common
Prayer Book declares, saying, " Whosoever
will be saved, it is necessary before all things,
that he believe in the catholic faith, which faith
unless every one keep whole and unde filed, he
shall without doubt perish everlastingly :" All
and every one are to keep this faith whole, be-
cause as it is writ, St. Jam. ii. v. 10. " Whoso-
ever keeps the whole law, and yet offends in
one point is guilty of all."
All are to keep the whole faith, because our
Saviour saith, Matt. xvi. 15. " Go ye into the
world, aad preach the Gospel to every creature?"
All are to believe alike the whole faith of the
Gospel, else they shall perish everlastingly ; be-
cause our Saviour saith in the same place, v. 16.
" He that believes shall be saved, but he that
belie veth not shall be damned." We all must
keep the unity of the faith whole and undefiled,
because our Saviour also saith, St. Matt, vi, 1$.
" Heaven and earth shall pass, but one jot, or
one tittle of the law shall in uo wise pass, till
all he fulfilled ;" as well the law of faith, as
the law of works.
. In confirmation of this, I appeal to the faith,
and works, and sufferings of all the sajuts from
the beginning, who to keep their faith whole
and enure, have made such profession and
practice of it, and confirmed it by such works)
as are recorded in St. Paul, Heb. xi. where first
he registers the faith and deeds of the believers
in particular, and theu in general, of what they
did and suffered by virtue of their faith, as
there you read ; " By faith they stopped the
mouths of lions ; extinguished the force of the fire,
repelled the edge of the sword; they were
racked, they were tried by moekingsand stripes ;
they were in chains and prisons, they were
stoned, they were hewed, they were tempted,
they died in tin slaughter of the sword, they
were so persecuted and impoverished, that they
were fain to go about in sheep-skins, and goat
skins, needy, in distress, afQicted, wandering in
deserts, in mountains, in dens, and caves of the
earth."
Dear eatholics now in your present perse-
cution, think of this, and be willing to follow
these examples, that you, as in the same place
it folio weth, being appointed, as they were by
the testimony of your faith, may receive, ere
long, those better things which God, as it is
there writ, provides for you : Happy those that
have this faith, but thrice more happy those
that suffer these persecutions for faith s sake,
because by this faith, as St. Paul saith, Gal. iii.
11. " The just man lives, and those that have
not this faith, are dead to God," because, as it
is written, Heb. xi. 6. " Without faith it is im-
possible to please God ;" and yet tboogh we
have this faith, except we join, when God re-
quires, our works of sufferings to this faith,
both we and our faith are dead to God, because,
as St. James saith, chap. ii. ver. 17. " Faith is
to be shewed by works, because faith without
works is dead." And he further shews us in his
first chap. v. 25. " It is the works make a man
happy, although there can be no good work
without a firm faith in nothing doubling," as
be saith, ver. 6*.
Christian faith is a firm, established, and an
infallible faith, because it is grounded upon a
rock, against which the gates of hell shall not
prevail, Mattb. xvi. v. 18. This faith is as firmly
established by such authority of God and his
church, that he that will not own the authority,
f is as a heathen and a publics u ; God bath de-
clared him so ; and what the church binds on
earth, God binds in Heaven. This church and
faith is firmly established, because our Saviour
bath promised, that the Holy Ghost, the Spirit
of truth should, teach the believers ail truth,
remain with them for ever, *h<rw them things to
come to be believed, and should cau»e the be-
lievers to remember all things which Christ bad
already taught, which you read in John, xiv.
and xvi. chap.
This fakh is firmly established! because itwfta
753]
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. ] 679.— /or High Treason
[754
believed and published from the beginning,
throughout the whole world, as St. Paul pro-
claims, Romans the first, where he speaks thus
to all that be in Rome ; " Beloved of God, called
to be saints ; first I thank my God through Jesus
Christ for you all, that your faith is published
throughout the whole world." Finally, this faith
is established and infallibly confirmed, that it
can never decay till the world's end, be-
cause our Saviour hath promised to be with
the believers unto the world's end ; Matth.
xxviii. 19, 20. " Go ve therefore and teach
all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever
I have commanded you, and behold I am with
?ou always even to the end of the world."
'hut much briefly concerning my Christian
faith in which I truly believe in all points in-
fallible, and in confirmation of which one only
faith and Catholic Church, I will and do lay
down my life ; and whosoever will as he ought
consider the text that proves this faith and
church of the living Goa, to he the pillar and
ground of truth, as it is e>ident it is, 1 Tim. iii.
15, 1 question uot but who I say considers this,
will believe the same, our faith being assisted
By our second divine virtue, which is our Chris*
ban hope.
This hope is that virtue which assures us,
that for the reward of our faith, and the pro-
fession and due practice of it, as we ought,
there are those heavenly gifts laid up for the
Christian believers, which neither eye hath seen,
aor ear hath heard, nor the heart of man can
conceive or comprehend, as St. Paul declares ;
this hope gives such confidence, that death can-
toot overcome it, because, as the prophet saith,
m Although he fchall kill me, yet I will hope iu
him." Why then shall any fear to die for his
faith, having this hope ? It is for want of
making due reflection and use of this hope that
causes so many to be fearful to suffer, and
makes them fly the field of persecution, and
forsake the banners of their Christian faith,
that all ought to fight under, and would still
fight under, would they make use of the divine
hope of God's promises, which are such, that as
David saith, Ptal.cxxv. " That he that hopes or
trusts in our Lord, shall be as mount Sion,
which cannot be removed, but remain for ever."
As the mountains, saith God by the mouth of
David, are about Jerusalem, so the Lord is
round about his people ; that is, such as will
f>lace their hope in him, as the prophet did, and
exhorts us to ao the same, saying, Psal. exxx. 5,
6. " My soul bath hoped in our Lord ; from the
morning watch, even until night, let Israel hope
in our Lord ;" that is, from the beginning of the
day of our life, till the night of death ; as well
in the morning of prosperity, as in the evening
of adversity : because it is also writ, God is my
hope forever; and whosoever can truly say with
David, Psal. xxxi. 1. "In thee, O Lord, have I
placed my hope," shall be assured of what there
follows, not to be confounded for ever, because,
as St. Paul saitbj " Hop* confoundeth not."
There is a contrary .vice to this virtue, a
worldly fear that brings all things to confusion ;
it makes worldlings swear, and forswear, and
perjure ; for which penuries and false oaths,
as the prophet saith, " Judgment springs up as
hemlock in the furrows of the field*." And
therefore Dr. Thorodick in his book of Just
Weights and Measures, saith, " That co-
action of oaths is the crying sin of this nation,
to call down the wrath of God upon the king-
dom."
What better remedy than to secure ourselves
against all worldly fears, and these ensuing
dangers, but by relying on the hope of future
blessings, which 6od, if we fight and suffer for
his sake, hath promised. God is the God of
Hosts, and we fight under him, jind if we trust
in him we are happy, as David suith, Psal.
lxxxiv. 5. " O Lord of Hosts, blessed is the
man that trusts in thee, in whom to hope is to
be secured;" and therefore David also saith,
Psal. xci. " He shall cover thee with his fea-
thers, and under his wing shalt thou hope, es-
pecially if we fight for our faith ;" and there-
fore he adds in the same verse, " His truth shall
he thy shield and buckler," if we will hope in
him and his reward ; for if we hope for our
great wages, we shall easily undergo our little'
work : As for example, if we hope to drink of
the torrent of pleasure, as God hath promised -
we shall in his kingdom, who will fear to taste
now of the chalice of some small persecution f
If we hope hereafter to be numbered amongst
the sons of God, as he hath promised we shall,
and have our lot among the saints: why should
we now fear to be reviled of men, or be reputed
ignominious, as our Saviour and his Apostles
were ? If they have, so will they do you also ;
the scholar is not above the master, nor the
servant above his lord. If they called the
master of the family Beelzebub, so will they do
his servants ; therefore we must with the Apos-
tles * rejoice, as you read in the Acts they did,
" because they were accounted worthy to suffer
contumely and reproaches." If contumely
and reproach seem so hard for us to undergo
now for a good cause, as is our conscience be-
fore a few enemies, what contumely must those
undergo who for now acting against their con-
science, shall undergo at the great judgment be-
fore God, angels, saints, devils, and all the
damned in hell t If for our reproach now we
hope that after a abort sorrow, God will honour
us so, as to wipe away with his own hand every
tear from our eyes, as he promiseth in the Re-
velations he will ; and that henceforth " there
shall he neither grief, nor labour, nor pain,*' or
the like ; why should any now grieve either to see
himself or others suffer ? It will not last, this
tempest will soon be over, and if now in this
storm the small vessel of my body suffer ship*
wreck, or some others, the like vessels, if our
souls can but carry off our goods of Faith, Hope,
and Charity, all is very well ; for as soon as the'
vessels of oar bodies sink, our souls will come
to shore at the Land of Promise, and we shall
beaecured in the rock which is Christ, and ever
3C
755) STATE TRIALS, 3 1 CuabLes II. 1679— Trial <f Fronds Johnson, {756
remain safe in the eternal hills, where neither
winds nor waves of persecution can ever reach
to assault us : then * welcome shipwreck, that
sinks the vessel of the body, to bring the pas-
senders and their goods so happily to the haven,
' the Heaven of bliss.
Let us therefore weigh these things in a pru-
dential balance, and see which scale is the
heaviest, of present feurs, or future hopes; of
present sufferings, or future glories. Let us re-
member our Saviour's words to his Apostles,' You
' are those that remained with me in my tempta-
' tions or trials ;' for which, said he, their reward
was, he disposed the kingdom of heaven to them ;
partners in suffering, partners in glories : which
if well considered, we shall say wiih St. Paul,
* The sufferings of this present time are nat
' condign, or of equality to the future glory
4 which shall he revealed in us;* and we shall
'with his joyful spirit say, 2 Cor. iv. 17. * Our
•" light affliction, which is but for a moment,
* worketh in us a far more exceeding and eter*
' nal weight of glory.' It is a happy weight that
lifts both sufferings and sufferers up as high as
Heaven, to eternal crowns of which we are all
assured of as a reward for our faith, if we will
make good use of our christian hope ; which
that we may the belter do, let us endeavour to
help ourselves by the third and greatest virtue
that follows our faith and hope, which is cha-
rity.
This is that greatest virtue of which all sorts
of Christians speak much, understand little, and
practise less ; though without the practice of
it, it is in vain for any to pretend to have a sav-
ing faith, or hope; For as St. Paul saith, 1
Cor. xiii. ' Though he speak with the tongues of
r men and angels, and have not charity, he is
* but as sounding bras* ;' and although be should
know all mysteries, and have faith to remove
mountains; and though he should have such
hope, understand for reward, ' that he should
' give all to the poor, and deliver his body to
' burn, and yet not have charity, it profiteth
' nothing/ Charity, as he saith, ver. 7. ' suf-
' fereth all things, believeth all things, hopetb
* all things, bearetb all things.'
* Do all that pretend to charity do thus ? If to
speak with the tongues of angels without chari-
ty be nothing but vanity, what charity is there
in those that speak with the tongues of de-
traction, scandal, slander, false- witness and
perjuries against their neighbours? If those
that give all to the poor may want charity,
so that all which they give profits them nothing,
what charity is there in those that take all from
their neighbours, to force them to forsake their
faith ? If alms profit nothing without charity,
can such injuries profit prosecutors, that take
all away against charity f If a man may give
his own body to burn, and yet be cold in cha-
rity, what charity is there to kill others bodies,
take away their' lives with ignominy and vio-
lence, because they will not kill their own souls,
S by acting against God and their conscience I If
charity consist only in those that suffer all things,
believe all things/hope all things, what charity
is there in those who will make their neighbour
suffer all things of persecution, because they
believe and hope according to their conscience,
and profess their faith and hope as they are
hound before God upon their salvation so to
do?
It is certain, that though men may pretend
persecution of others for God's sake, to reduce
others to him, yet it is evident that for any
kingdom to persecute any, merely for con-
science-sake, is against the law of God; and
therefore whilst they would seem so zealously
to keep the first command, of loving God above
all, and force others to conform to their opi-
nions, they break the second command, be-
cause they do not Jove their neighbour as them-
selves, because they persecute them, and so
they dash one commandment against the other,
and so crack both commandments together :
For wheresoever the second command is broke,
by not loving our neighbour as ourselves, the
first is broke with it, because did they love
God above all, they would do "better by their
neighbour.
But I do not come here to beat down others
pretence to charity, but endeavour to advance
charity in myself and others ; and the way to
do this, is not to reckon what others have not
dooe according to charity, but to call to mind
what others have done to raise charity toward*
God and their neighbours.
We read in holy writ, that Moses love was so
to God and his neighbour, that to repurchase
a peace and charity betwixt God and the peo-
ple after they had offended, he desired that his
own name should rather be blotted out of the
book of life, than that the people's name should
not be put in, by obtaining forgiveness; and
therefore he saith to God, * Either spare the
4 people, or blot me out of the bpok whiob thou
' hast writ.'
How superlative a motive is this, to move
Christians to a perfect charity towards their
neighbours; well may a Christian be willing to
lay down bis temporal life for good example
sake, rather than offend God, and scandalize
others by deserting his faitb; since others
could be willing to hazard their eternal lives,
to reduce their neighbours to God by charity. *
The like examples of love to God and his
neighbours, we have in St. Paul, in his manifold
expressions both towards God and men ; first
to God, as Rom. viii. where he makes this pro-
clamation, ' Who shall' saith be, ' separate us
* from the charity of Christ? Shall tribulation,
' or distress, or persecution, or famine, or
4 nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written,
' for thy sake>e are killed all the day long, we
4 are accounted as sheep to the slaughter/ He
adds, ' I am certain that neither death nor life,
* nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor
' things present nor things to come, nor beigth,
* nor depth, nor 'any other creature shall be
' able to separate us from the love of God which
' is in Christ Jesus our Lord/
And for this charity in order to his neigh-
hour, kt what he suffered to serve them testify,
M7]
STATE TRIALS, $1 ChaewIL |070.-^r High Dream.
175*
a* he relates, 2 Cor. si. by being in. labours
and stripe*, in prison, in death, in scoiirgiogs,
in shipwreck being day and night in the but*
torn of the sea, iu perils, in weariness, in pain*
fulness, in hunger. In thirst, in fastiqg, in cold*
and weariness, besides what he, suffered through
bis care of all churches, ver. 28, 89, wliere he
sajin, 4Who is weak, Hud I am not weskr*
understand bjf compassion, as fellow-sufferer;
* Who is scaudaliaed, and I burn ngtf under-
stand by seal. Let, those now consider this
who never m«>re rejoice than now, when tbey
see their passive neighbours scandalised, and
were never better content in their own appre-
hensions than now, when they behold us suffer-
ing though before God we are innocent. Were
$L Paul oj» earth again, he would rather give
himself fur others, to ease them of their suijrr-
togs, eccordiug to* his wonted charity exprest,
% Cur, xii. 1$. saying, ' I will very gladly spend
* s>od he jpeot for you;' and be. w<&M r*~
ioice to suiter in charity for his neighbour, as,
he abundantly declare*, Colo*, ii. 4. saying, * I
4 rejoice in iny sufferings for you/ and fill up
that wtiich is wanting of the passions or afflic-
tions of Christ in my flesh for his. body's sake,
which U the church, and this, example is given
fqr u> to do the like, and therefore be saith, t
Cor. iv. 9. * We are made a spectacle to the
4 world, to angels, and 0 men ; and therefore
God forbid but some of us, if we he Christian
wen, should endeavour to imitate some of his
examples, though we cannot all ; For he as*
cended to so superlative a degree ef charity to-
wards bis neighbour, that he declares to the-
vvorld, that be could be a cast-away himself to
save others ; for thus he saith, Horn. ix. 3. ' I
4 conld wish myself were accursed from Christ
* far my brethren.'
Christians do not then henceforth so easily
ruin your neighours, neither in their lives, nor
estates, or credits, by persecutions and scan-
dals, the scripture holds forth no such doctrine,
nor gives any such t samples, but, as you see,
the contrary; but if our persecutors will not
imitate these examples, let us that are perse-
cuted apd suffer endeavour to imitate them, by
choosing rather to lose all we can call our own
in this world, and life also, rather than to break
chanty to God and our neighbour, either by
denying or dissembling our faith, and scanda-
lizing the church, or bearing false witness
against ourselves, or our neighbours, to save our
lives or fortunes, or enrich ourselves by false
witness.
And if we will pnf in practice the virtues pf
faitb, hope and charity I nave spoke of, we
ought to do it thus ; what we profess by words,
we must confirm by deeds and actions. Our
profession of Catholic faith is this, I believe all
divine revelations delivered to the prophets and
apostles, proposed by the Catholic church in
her general councils, or by her universal prac-
tice to be believed as an article of Catholie
faith, knowing this to be our faith, the confirma-
tion of this knowledge, or the practice pf this
by our deeds, is, as St, Paul teacherf), Ephes .
hi. & ' To esteem all worldly things as dirt, in
4 respect of this eminent knowledge of Christ
' and his frith ;' and therefore for my own part,
I now aging ready to leave all in the world, and
my life iu testimony of my Catholic lakh,
which I profess I desire and hope to manifest
to all, I value my knowledge of Christ's faith,
more than I value the universal world.
And as for my Christian hope I profess to,
have, the confirmation of it, or the practical
part is to be fulfilled (hut, being that \ye must,
as St. feter saith, I Pet. hi. 1$. ' Be always
' ready to give an account to every one con-
4 corning the hope which is in us/ 1 have al-
ready by words expressed it, and by deed X
express, it thus; That whereas 1 do believe that
God, as the scripture saith, kills, and bring* to
life again; carneth down to the depth, and
hringeth b*c* again; so now I do by this my
present execuiiou, which 1 am now to undergo,
willingly give my body to W mortified in death
for my faith, hoping iu God's infinite merpy he
will restore my body and soul to eternal lifej
and I <jo willingly resign myself to be carried
down yi my grave, hoping by my Saviour's cross
and passtoo, death and burial, he will raise me
up again to a glorious resurrection.
And as for the confirmation of my charity, to
shew by deeds, the love 1 owe to God and my
neighbour, it bath pleased my Saviour by his
owp words to declare which is the best proof
or practice of charity,' where • he saith, ' No
' man hath a greater charity, than he that lays
' down his lite for his friend/ 1 therefore dq
willingly undergo (his death I am to suffer now,
to testify I love my friend, my neighbour as
myself; whilst I undergo tbis death for myseif
and them, that seeing it is for the piofession of
my faith I die, they, whilst they bye, may the
more happily serve God in the same belief ; and
I testify, I love God above all, because I tor«r
sake the world and myself in death, rather than
offend him by doing any thing against my con-
science.
And forasmuch as for these many years I
have had occasion by discoursing and reading
the holy scriptures with others who desired to
find out the true faith, I have by words declar-
ed what faith I did believe, and what faith they
ought to believe; J now declare that for every
point of faith that ever I believed myself, or
read to others, pr told them that they might
believe as anoint of faith; for all and every
such points of faith, in confirmation of them, as
wejl to myself as others, I here lay down my
life ; and omitting all other particular points,
I believe obedience to our king to be a divine
law, and that we are bound to obey his commands
in temporal laws ; and I believe it too a sin of
damnation, for anv subject of his to rebel
against him, or his. kingdom; and I believe it
as certain a sin to damnation, for any subject
to endeavour, either by thoughts, woros, or
deeds, to take away bis life, or act any thing of
that nature, either by himself, or any others,
or other against his sacred majesty, as I believe
it was a sin in Judas to damnation to betray
759] STATB TRIALS, 3 1 Cfl ahles II. 1679.— Trial qf Francu Johnson, [7G0
Christ. And I do declare upon my salvation
that I never did, nor do know any Catholic,
that ever was or is the Jea»t guilty, either by
thought, word, or deed, by any plot or other-
wise, to have any designer concurrence to kill
his sacred majesty, or rebel against his king-
dom, whom God long preserve with his subjects
in all happiness in this world, and crown him
in the world to come with eternal glory.
And now it remains, that with all the powers
and forces of my soul, I make my address to
God for mercy ere I appear hefore him (or
judgment; and you, dear friends, here present,
who believe in one holy Catholic Church, and
Communion of Saiuts, be pleased in charity to
make the same address to God with me, and
for me, that we may obtain true sorrow and
repentance for all our sins, and a merciful for-
giveness ; and first let us wish' from the bottom
of our hearts, that we could express and make
good our sorrow, as David did, Psal. cxix.
' Whilst rivers of waters run down our eyes like
' his, because we have not kept according to
' our faith God's commands;' for which had we
that fountain of tears which tbe prophet wish-
ed for, we ought spend it all ; we ought with
Jeremy, Lam. iii. 48. 49. to weep till our
eyes, as his, failed, and as his eye with tears
afflicted, as he saith his heart, so ought ours to
do, because we have made so ill use of that
faith, hope, and charity, which God hath be-
stowed upon us.
But forasmuch as tears now at this present,
and in these circumstances of rash censuring
times, tears, I say, from me, might seem to
some, either the off-spring of fear to die, which
God forbid I should have in so good a cause as my
religion ; or lest others might judge my tears
might fall by reason of some other guilt, of
which I am free and innocent, I have endea-
voured to stop the course of tears, and instead
of drops of water from my eyes, I will spend
the drops of blood from every sorrowful vein of
my heart, and my whole body, that God may
please to wash away the sins of all my life past,
and I whh each drop an ocean for myself and
all the world, because I have nothing now left
more than wishes, which I beseech thee, O
gracious God, of thy mercy to accept of; and if
you will vouchsafe to accept Qf wishes to supply
the deeds, by wishes I offer up all that is good
to you, that ever you gave to any since the
world's creation ; I offer up David's broken
heart, together with my own, that so like him,
after my repentance, I may become a man ac-
cording to your own heart. I offer up the sighs
of Magdalen, and wish I could make such use
of them as she did to sob out my sins. I wish
her repentant arms, that I may lay fast bold
at the feet of thee my gracious God.
I wish I had the longanimity of all the holy
confessors.
I wish I had the sufferings of all thy constant
martyrs.
I wish I had tbe lamps of all thy sacred
virgins, that I might offer all to thee that in
them was pleasant in thy eight.
I wish I could offer- op to thee, O God, the
sacrifices of just Abel, Lot, Job, and all other
sacrifices that ever did gratefully ascend up in
thy sight; that thou being pleased by the sight
of i hem, thou mightst look no more upon my
sins: For if thou wilt observe iniquities, who
shall endure? let therefore thy mercy hide thy
face from my sins, but let not tbe rigour of thy
justice cast me away from thy presence ; cast
me not away from thy face, and thy holy spirit
take not from me, but turn away thy nice from
sin, and blot out all mine iniquities, and I will
offer my body as a sacrifice tq thee by death to
appease thy just anger.
I own my sins, and 1 own your mercies.
You gave me faith to know and believe what
was the will of you my heavenly master, but I
acknowledge my fault, that although I knew
your will, I did not fulfil it, and therefore I
ought to be beaten with many stripes, because
you foretold me, that many are tbe stripes of a
sinner; but be pleased, dear Lord, also to re-
member, that in tbe same place you promised
that notwithstanding this, yet mercy should en-
compass him that hopes; you have given your
divine hope, vouchsafe to let this hope defend
me; and although I know I have not made
good use of hope, and hope not well used, of
which I am guilty, makes a sinner defer repent*
ance, and so puts in danger to fall into pre-
sumption by long neglect, yet the last hour of
calling being not yet past, and your mercy be-
ing above all your works, I hope and humbly
beg to be partaker with those who were accept-
ed at tbe last hour.
I humbly acknowledge with thanks, O gra-
cious God, that you gave me charity as your
livery, in which I always ought to have appear-
ed in your sight, and never to hav.e been divest-
ed ot it; but how oil have I been spoiled,
through my own fault, of this garment I how
oft have I, by descending to Jericho, instead
of going up to Jerusalem ; how oft, I say, have
I been robbed of this garment of chanty? even
as often as I have preferred any sublunary ob-
ject, and the love of that before the love of
you, and before your goodness, which is above
all goodness, and the object of all beatitude.
Vouchsafe again, O gracious Lord, to res>
tore in mercy to me this nuptial vestment, ere
I dare appear at the supper of the Lamb.
Make me, O heavenly Father, a penitential
prodigal, and then I shall have put on me again.
this best robe of charity.
This I beg from the bottom of my sonl for
his dear sake, who was divested of his gar-
ments out of charity, that I might be invested
in his charity, who also suffered his garments
to be divided, that he might purchase graae,
that we might never be divided from the unity
of his faith and church, but rather willingly
suffer for his sake die separation of our live*
from our bodies, the separation of our bodies
from our souls, and the separation of our bo-
dies into its quarters, that we may the more
perfectly by these sufferings tod separations
from ourselves be united to him.
T61]
STATE TRIALS, SI Cram.es II. l679--^r High Treat*.
[7«8
Therefore in the faithful communion and
perfect Union of the sufferings of all saints that
ever hare been, or now are, or ever will be, in
the union of the moat sacred merits of the life,
passions and death of God and man, my dear
Redeemer and Saviour Christ, I offer myself
willingly to what I am now to suffer, begging
by all that is good in heaven and in earth, re-
missions of sins for myself and all the world,
particularly for all that may appear to have
been my enemies in the concern of my life, as
witness, jury, judge, and others, whom I do not
esteem as enemies, but as the best of friends ;
I heartily forgive them, and beg1 the best of
blessings for them all, as being the cause of
sending me sooner than otherwise I might have
gone, to the happy state of hope for the other
world. Whither, before I go, I humbly beg
pardon of all in this world, for whatever in
thoughts, words or deeds I have committed to
offend them, or omitted to do for them, by
which any thing might have beeu mended in
them, or myself, I beseech God to bless them all.
1 beseech God to bless also all my friends,
spiritual and temporal; all benefactors; and
all by whom I have received good or evil, by
words, deeds, or desires.
I beseech God to bless all those of whom
I ever had care or charge spiritually or tempo-
rally.
' I beseech God bless his holy catholic church,
and our chief bishop thereof, with all other
bishops, priests and clergy.
I beseech God bless this nation, and unite
all amongst themselves and to God, in true
Faith, Hope and Charity.
I beseech God to bless his majesty's privy
council, and make all the secrets of their hearts
and their desires such, as that both Charles our
king on earth, and God our great king in hea-
ven and earth, may be served, pleased and
honoured by them, that men and angels may
rejoice at it now, and be public witness of it at
the last great day, at the great and last conncii
table, where ' every secret shall be laid open,'
Luke 12, as Solomon saith, Eccles. ult. ' when
4 God will bring into judgment every secret
' thing, whether it be good or evil.'
I beseech God to bless the parliament now
elect, and be so present with them when they
sit to judge and discuss the causes of this na-
tion, they may imitate the assembly of those
that are to sit upon the twelve thrones at the
last great assembly, that they may now judge
or determinate of things no otherwise than they
hope or fear then to be judged themselves, and
determined of to all eternity.
I beseech God to bless all that suffer in this
persecution, and let the blessing exprest in the
J 36th Psalm light upon them speedily, that
God turning their ca'ptivity, all mouths may be
filled with joys, and tongues with singings.
Convert, O Lord, our captivity, as streams in
the south, that those who now sow in tears,
may reap in joy; and for this temporal death,
O blessed Trinity, give me eternal life ; let my
body die to the world for the love of thee, that
my soul may live for ever, and lore in thee my
God and dear Redeemer, Amen. Sweet Jesus,
Amen.
It appears from the following, that in the
preceding month of July another priest had
been executed at Chester.
" The Speech of Mr. William Plessivotojt,
who was Executed at Chester (tor being a
Priest of the Church of Rome) July 19,
1679.
" Dear Countrymen ; I am here to be exe-
cuted, neither for theft, murder, nor any thing
against the law of God, nor any fact or doctrine
inconsistent with monarchy or aril government.
I suppose several now present heard my trial
the last Assizes, and can testify that nothing
was laid to my charge but priest-hood, and I
am sure that you will find that priesi-hood is
neither against the law of God nor monarchy,
or civil government. If you will consult either
the Old or New-Testament, (for it is the basis
of religion) for no priest no religion, St. Paul
tells us in Hebrews, the 7, and IS. The priest-
hood being changed, there is made also of ne-
cessity a change of the law, and consequently
the priest-hood being abolished, the law and
religion is quite gone. — But 1 know it will be
said, that a priest ordained by authority de-
rived from the See of Rome, is by the law of
the nation to die as a traitor, but if that be so
what most become of alt the clergy-men of the
Church of England, for the first pro tea tan e
bishops had their ordination from those of the
Church 'of Rome, or none at all, as appears' by
their own writers, so that ordination comes
derivatively to those now living. — As in the
primitive times, Christians were esteemed
traitors ; and suffered as such by national laws,
so are the priests of the Roman Church, here
esteemed and suffer as such. But. as Chris-
tianity then was not against the law of God,
monarchy, or civil policy, so now there is not
any one point of the Roman Catholic faith, (of
which faith I am) that is inconsistent there-
with, as is evident by induction in each several
point. — That the pope hath power to depose oir
give license to murder princes, is no point of
our belief. And I protest in the sight of God
and the court of heaven, that I am absolutely'
innocent of the Plot so much discoursed of, and
abhor such bloody and damnable designs, and
although it be 9 weeks since I was sentenced
jo die, there is not any thing of that laid to my
charge, so that I may well take comfort in St.
Peter's words, 1 Pet. 14, 15, 16. ' Let none of
' you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as
' an evil doer, or as a busy body in other men's
' matters, yet if any man suffer as a Christian
' let him not be ashamed or sorry.' I have de-
served a worse death, far though I have been a'
faithful and true subject to my king, I have
been a grievous sinner against God; thieves
and robbers that rob on hi«h-ways, would have
served God in a greater perfection than I have
703] STATE TRIALS, $l Charles II. 1079.~ZWWo/ T. Knox and, John Lane, [764
done, bud they received so many favours and
graces from him a* I have. — But a* (here was
never sinner who truly repented and heartily
called to Jesus for mercy, to whom he did not
shew mercy ; so I hope by the merits of bis
passion, he will have mercy on me, who am
heartily sorry that ever I offended him. — Bear
witness good hearers, that I profess that I un-
doubtedly and 6rmly believe all the Articles of
the Roman Catholic ftiith, and for the truth of
any of them, (by the assistance of God) I am
willing to die, and I had rather die than doubt
of any point of faith, taught by our holy
mother the Roman Catholic Church.-— In what
condition Margaret Plat one of the cbiefest wit-
ceases against me was before, and after sbe«was
with me, let bet nearest relations declare.—*
George Massey, another witness swore falsly,
when be swore, I gave him the Sacrament, and
said mass at the time and place he mentioned*
and I verily think that be never spoke to me*
or I to him, or saw each other but at thej
Assizes week ; the third witness Robert Wood
was suddenly killed, but of the dead why should
I speak ? These were all the witnesses against
me, unless those that only declared what they
heard from others. I heartily and freely for*
give all that have been or are any way instru-
mental to my death, and heartily desire that
those that are living may heartily repent. — God
bless the king and the royal family, and grant
his majesty a prosperous reign here and a crown
of glory hereafter, God grant peace to the sub*
jects, and that they live and die in true Faith,
Hnpe, and Charity. That which remains is,
that I recommend myself to the mercy of my
Jesus by whose merits I hope for mercy, O Jesu
be to me a Jesus."
^
S58. The Trial of Thomas Knox and John Lane, at the King's-
Bench, for a Misdemeanor:* 31 Charle* II. a.d. 1679.
Westminster, in the county of Middlesex, la-
bourer, and John Lane of the same parish and
county, labourer, for that whereas Edward
Coleman, William Ireland, and John Grove*,
and other false traitors against our sovereign
lord Charles 2. by the grace of God of England,
Scotland, France, and Ireland, king, defender
of the faith, &c. to the jurors aforesaid un-
known, the 24th day of April, in the 30th
year of the reign or our said sovereign lord
the king, at the parish of St. Margaret's, West-
minster, in the county of Middlesex, traiter-
ously amongst themselves had conspired, con-
sulted, and agreed, to bring and put to death
and destruction our said sovereign lord the king,
and war against our said sovereign lord the,
king within this kingdom of England to stir upf
and the religion in the said kingdom of Eng-
land, rightly and hy the laws of the said king-
dom established, to the superstition of toe
Romish church to change and alter, and the go*
vernmeot of the said kingdom of England (a
subvert ; for which their said, most wicked trea-
sons, and traiterous conspiracies, consultations,
and agreements, the said Edward Coleman*
William Ireland, and John Grove, in due man-
ner and according to the laws of this kingdom of
England, were afterwards attainted, and un-
derwent the pain of death for the same. And
whereas William earl ofPowjs, WjJliam vis-
count Stafford, John lord Bellasis. Henry lord
Aruudel of Wardor, William lord Petre, and
sir Henry Titchbourn, bait, the 30th day of
November; in the SOth year of the reign of
our said sovereign lord the king aforesaid, at
the parish of St. Margaret's Westminster,
aforesaid, in the county of Middlesex aforesaid,
of the treasons aforesaid were lawfully accused,
and thereupon, according to due form of law,
were committed to the lower of tendon, being
the prison of our said sovereign lord the king,
there aaiely to be kept to answer for the toea*
Oa Tuesday toe 25th day of November, 1679,
at the King's bench-bar at Westminster, Tho-
mas Knox and John Lane were tried for the
misdemeanor and offence hereinafter in the
Indictment expressed ; which trial was in man-
ner following.
s Proclamation being made in usual manner
for information, and the defendants called to
their challenges, the jury were sworn, whose
names follow.
Sir John Kirk* Thomas Harriot, Henry John-
son, Simon Middleton, Hugh Squire, Francis
Oorriogton, John Roberts, Raiusford Water-
house, Thumas.Earsby, Joseph Radcliffe, James
Supple, Richard Cooper,
Who being numbered, the clerk of the crown
charged them with the indictment thus:
Cl */ Cr. Gentlemen, Yon of the jury that
are sworn, hearken to your charge ; you shall
understand that the defendants stand indicted
bv the oaths of twelve honest and lawful men
of the county of Middlesex, by the names of
Thomas Knox of the parish of St. Margaret's,
•*r*—mmr^
im*-V~l^r*
* Published in the next year, under the title
of "The Trial and Conviction of Thomas Knox
and John Iam, for a Conspiracy to defame and
scandalise Dr. Oaies and Mr. Bedloe ; thereby
to discredit their evidence about the Horrid
Popish Plot : at the KingVBencr>bar at West-
minster, on Tuesday the 85tu of November,
1670. Before the Right Hon. Sir William
Seroggs, knt Lord Chief Justice, and the other
Judges of that Court. Where, upon full evi*
deace, they were found Guilty of the offence
•foresaid. London : Printed for Robert Paw-
lett, at the Bibie in Chancery lane, near Fleet-
eftreet, 1690."
. « I do appoint Robert Pawlett to print the
1 Trial of Thomas Knox nod John Lane, and
' let no other person presume topriot the same .'
Wiimam Scmca*.
7G5]
St ATE TRIALS, Si Charles II. 1679— jfor « Alisdcmttatdr*
t?G6
sons aforesaid; whereupon they the said Wil-
IHim earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford,
John lord Bellasis, Henry lord Arundel of Wat-
dor, and William lord retre, were in parlia-
ment impeached by the Commons in the same
parliament assembled. And whereas Thomas
earl of Danby afterwards to wit the said SOth
day of November, in the SOth year afore-
said* at the parish aforesaid, in the county afore-
said, of certain treasons and other misdemea-
nors was lawfully accused, and thereupon, ac-
cording to due form of jaw, was committed to
the said Tower of London, there to be safely
kept to answer for the treasons and misdemea-
nors aforesaid, of which said treasons and mis-
demeanors he the said Thomas earl of Danby
is impeached in parliament, by the Commons
in the same parliament assembled, that they the
said Thomas Knox and, John Lane, well know-
ing the said William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, John lord Bellasis, Henry
lord Arundel of Wardoor, William lord retre,
and Thomas earl of Danby, to be accused of
the treasons and misdemeanors aforesaid ; and
they the said Thomas Knox and John Lane,
being devilishly affected towards onr said so-
sovereign lord the king, their supreme and na-
tural lord, and devising, and with all their
strength intending the peace and tranquility of
this kingdom of England to disturb, and to hin-
der and stifle the discovery of the said treasons,
by the said William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, John lord Bellasis, Henry
lord Arundel, and William lord Petre, as afore-
said supposed to be committed, and, as much
as in them lay to elude the due course of law,
and the prosecution of Justice against the said
William earl of Powis, William viscount Staf-
ford, William lord Petre, John lord Bellasis,
sir Henry Tichbourn, and Thomas earl of
Danby to retard, they the said Thomas Knox
and John Lane, afterwards, to wit, the 30th day
of April, in the 31st year of the reign of onr
said sovereign lord the king, at the parish afore-
said, in the county aforesaid, falsly, malicious-
ly and unlawfully did consult and agree among
themselves, Titus Oates clerk, and William
Bedlow gentleman, who informations of the
treasons aforesaid had given, and whom they
the said Thomas Knox and John Lane, the day
and year aforesaid, well knew to have given in-
formation of the treasons aforesaid against them
the said William earl of Powis, William vis-
count Stafford, John lord Bellasis, Henry lord
Arundel, and Wiliam lord Petre, to scandalise
and upon the trial of the said William earl of
Powis, William viscount Stafford, John lord
Bellasis, Henry lord Arundel, and William
lord Petre, to represent them to be persons of
evil conversation, aftd witnessses not deserving
credit. And that he the said Thomas Knox
afterwards, to wit, the said 30th day of April,
in the 31st year aforesaid, at the parish afore-
said, in the county aforesaid, in toe names, and
with the consent and agreement of the said
John Lane, asd oac William Osborn, to dis-
grace the information of the said Titus Oates
and William Bedlow, against them the said Wil-
liam earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford/
William lord Petre, John lord Bellasis, and
Henry lord Arundel, far our said sovereign
lord the king, to be given, falsly, maliciously,
subtilly, and advisedly, did write and cause to
be written three letters, and those letters, so
written, falsly, craftily, unlawfully, and ad*
vtsedly, did direct and cause to be delivered to
himself the said Thoteas Knox, by which said
letters falsly, craftily, and deceitfully, it wae
declared, That they the sajd John Lane and
William Osborne were greatly troubled in their
consciences by reason ef certain tilings which
they well knew, and bad concealed concerning
the unjust contrivances of the said Titus Oates
and William Bedlow, in accusing the said Tho*
mas earl of Danby, to be guilty of the treasons
and other misdemeanors aforesaid, and that
the said Titus Oates was a person of a wicked
and vicious life, and made an assault upon the
said John Lane, and with the said John Lane
to commit that detestable sin called sodomy
before that time had endeavoured. And that
he the said Thomas Knox, the sooner and more
effectually to persuade the said John Lane and
William Osborn falsly to accuse the said
Titus. Oates and William Bedlow, that they the
said Titus Oates and William Bedlow unjustly,
and against all truth, had accused the said
Thomas earl of Danby, of the treasons and
other misdemeanors aforesaid, and so to affirm
against the evidence of our said sovereign lord
the king, upon the trial of the said Thomas
earl of Danby, for the treasons and other mis-
demeanors aforesaid, to be had afterwards, to
wit, the said 30ih day of April, in the 31st year
' of the reign of our said sovereign lord the king
aforesaaid, at the parish aforesaid, in the
county aforesaid, falsly, advisedly, corruptly,
and against the duty of his allegiance, unlaw-
fully gave to the said John Lane and William
Osborn, divers great sums of money, and also
further falsly, advisedly, corruptly, and against
the duty of his allegiance, the day and year
aforesaid, at the parish aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, did promise unto the said John Lane
and William Osborn, that they the taid John
Lane and William Osborn, within a certain
time, by the said Thomas Knox to the said
John Laoe and William Osborn propounded,
divers other great sums of money, . and other
great rewards therefore should have and re-
ceive, against the duty of their allegiance, to
the great retarding, obstructing and suppressing
of justice, in manifest contempt of the laws
of this kingdom of England, to the evil and per*'
nicious example of all others m the like case
offending, and against the peace of our said
sovereign lord the king, his crown and dignity.
To this indictment, the said Thomas Knox and
John Lane, by their attorney, pleaded that
they are Not Guilty, nor either of them is
Guilty of the offence aforesaid, and further
withal put themselves upon the cooatry, and
the king's attorney likewise. And vour charge
is to enquire if they are Guilty or Not Guilty.*
767] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1679.— Trial of T. Khax and John Lane, [768
CI. cfCr* Make an O yes.
Crier. O ves ! if any one will give evidence
©n the behalf of our sovereign lord the kin?,
against Thomas Knox and John Lane, of the
misdemeanors and offence whereof they stand
indicted, let them come forth and give their
evidence.
Mr. Trenchard. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, Thomas Knox
and John Lane stand indicted for a great and
high misdemeanor, and the indictment sets
fbrth, that whereas Coleman, Ireland, Pick-
ering, and Grove, and other false traitors did
conspire to destroy the king, and change the
religion established by law, to levy war against
our sovereign lord the king, and to introduce
popery, and for these treasons were convicted,
attainted, and executed ; and farther sets forth,
that the lord Powis, lord Arundel of W ardor,
and others, were accused of the said treasons,
and were committed to the Tower, and after-
wards were impeached for the same by the
Commons in parliament assembled ; as also
that Thomas earl of Danby was impeached of
high-treason and other misdemeanors ; that the
defendants kuowing Mr. Oates and Mr. Bed-
low had given information of these treasons, to
stifle the evidence, and to scandalize them, did
falsly conspire to represent them as wicked
persons, and men of no credit. And the in-
dictment further sets forth, that the defendant
Knox, with the agreement of Lane, and one
Osborn, did cause several letters to be writ, in
which it was contrived to accuse the said Oates
and Bedlow, that they had conspired falsly to
accuse the said earl of Danby, and that Oates
was a person of a vicious conversation, and had
a design to attempt an assault upon the person
of the said Lane, with an intention to commit
that detestable sin of sodomy ; the better to
% effect which wicked designs, the said Knox
fave several sums of money to Osborn and
,ane, and had offered great rewards unto
them. To this indictment they have pleaded
Not Guilty, and you are to try whether they
are Guilty or Not, of this misdemeanor.
Then sir John Maynard, the king's eldest
•erjeant at law, pursued the charge thus:
Serj. Maynard. May it please your lord-
ship, and you gentlemen of the jury; this cause
is of great consequence ; and, my lord, I desire
the jury to observe, that their question this day
is not to enquire whether the lords or the other
persons accused and impeached in parliament
•re Guilty or Not ; but the question before
them, is, Whether the persons that stand here
Indicted, are guilty of wicked and vile endea-
vours to discountenance and suppress the evi-
dence, and scandalize their persons, who were
to give evidence against these lords ; we are
not to give evidence against the lords, but
against these persons.
X. C. /. (Sir Win. Scroggs) Yon are right,
brother. '
Serj. Mapnard. Gentlemen, something I
must observe to you, that is an inducement
to this matter : that there hatb been an horrid
and abominable conspiracy against the king,
the nation, the religion, and the law, appears
(my lord) by the proceedings in parliament,
wherein the Lords and the Commons have
several times' jointly declared so, and I think,
h is so public that no body will doubt there is
such a thing ; who is guilty, that is another
matter.
L. C. J. Tliis court must take notice of that,
because some have been tried, convicted, and
condemned for it by this court.
Serj. Maynard. Your lordship says right.
But my lord, the first discovery of this conspi-
racy came from a single person, one that stood
single and discouraged a long time, and that
there were* endeavours to discourage his further
discovery, that will appear. My lord, when it
stood so, it happened tharsir Edmund bury
Godfrey had taken his examination, and these
things will be material in the end ef the cause.
Sir E. Godfrey having taken the exnminatioa
of Oates, then the endeavour was to suppress
this examination that he had taken, and that by
no less a wickedness than the barbarous murder
of that honest gentleman, whom you all knew;
and they not only took away his life, but they
did j strive to baffle and defame him, when he
was(dead, and that will appear too, and is
pubtic nod known. My lord, all this while stood
Oates single ; it fell out by the mercy of God,
that a further discovery was made by Bedlow,
he was examined, aud it is publicly known,
and public justice hath gone upon it. — The
next aitempt was to corrupt the testimony of
Bedlow with bribes and rewards, and by other
ways ; and the person that transacted it, Read-
ing, is. attainted of it, * Scelere tutandum est
scelus,' when men have invented and designed
any great wickedness, they are forced to enter
opon others to cover and conceal the former.
My lord, it proceeded now, and comes to that
which will be the question this day. Having
gone all these ways, now they return again, to
see if they can disgrace and baffle the evidence
Oates and Bedlow bad given, and the way to
that is by disparaging and scandalizing them with
foul offences, especially Dr. pates ; and that
was thus, (as we shall prove to your lordship)
Lane had been a servant with Oates, and the
other was one of the like condition, and he was
tampered with to accuse Dr. Oates of that
horrid sin of sodomy, and I think if he were
such an one, little credit were to be given to
such a man. This was the design they were to
accomplish. And we shall prove to you, in
order to it, there were letters written (and con-
trived by Knox indeed) written by Osborn who
is not now before you, but a contrivance of
them all. And, my lord, there must be a pre-
tence ; for in truth these persons had been ex-
amined, and had charged him with this offence,,
but upon further examination they he'd re-
nounced their discovery.
L. C. J. Had they all given evidence? Or
who did ?
Serj. Maynatd. No, my lord, pardon m'e> t
709J
STATE TRIALS, 31 Chahlw II. 1679.— /br a Misdemeanor. (770
am not speaking of their Evidence, bat only of
their Examination before the Lords.
L. C. J, What was it that was there wit*
nessed ?
Serj. Maynard. Then they pretended this
matter. That they were touched in conscience,
and now they repent, and must discover the
truth for the truth** sake, that themselves were
false in making of the charge, and this my lord,
must be furthered with bribes and rewards, as
we shall prove to you. We shall make out the
particulars by witoesses, and then we think we
may leave it to your lordship and the jury to
determine. In truth, my lord, it happens in
this case as it did long ago, when the first dis-
covery was. of a like design, and as is told by
the historian ; * Multi ob stultitiam non puta-
' bant, multi ob ignorantiam non vide bant,
Imulti ob pravitatein non creflebant, et non
' credeodo conjurationem adjuvabant/
Attorney General (sir Cr. Levins). May it
please your lordship, and you gentlemen of the
jury : I am of counsel for the king in this cause,
whose suit it is. The evidence hath been open-
ed fully fry Mr. Serjeant. I shall only say this,
that this is a counter-part of Mr. Reading's
Case, only it seems in this to differ, that the
counter-part exceeds the original ; for, I think,
that jt is of a further extent than his was. It
hath been told you, bv Mr. Serjeant, and, I
know, the Court will tell you that it matters not
whether those, persons that are accused of the
Plot, and impeached for it, were guilty or not, i^
is sufficient that they are accused, and that by
these persons. For any body to endeavour to
suppress and withdraw the king's evidence, or to
disgrace the king's evidence, that is not lawful,
be the crime what, it will ; but it is a much
greater crime in a case of this nature af High-
Treason, where the life of the king, the govern-
ment of the kingdom, the religion, and the
true worship of God established in it, and the
laws of the nation are in danger. Some of these
persons are guilty, for Mr. Coleman, and se-
veral others, have been found guilty, and have
been executed for it. — The design in this case
that lies before you, gentlemen, to try, was to
throw a disparagement upon the testimony of
those persons by whose evidence those traitors
were principally attainted and executed. This
is, gentlemen, to affront the justice of the na-
tion, and indeed to cast a disparagement upon
it; and that sure is as great an offence as can
be; the matter of the evidence hath been
opened to you, I shall only acquaint your lord-
ship and the jury, that it hath been designed a
great while, and so long designed, that one of
the persons here accused, Mr. Lane, one of
OateVs servants, had the opportunity to get
into his master's secrets, thereby the more
effectually to betray him, and as it will appear
by witnesses, did carry on the design till it was
discovered, and by that discovery prevented,
as to any success.
Mr. Recorder (sir George Jefferies). Your
lordship is pleased to observe in the indictment
that is now to be tried, there are but two per-
vou Yif.
sons that stand indicted, that is Laue and
Knox. I presume the gentlemen that are on
the other side for each of the prisoners (for I
perceive those that are for the one, are not for
the other) may expect that there should be
proof made of what is laid as inducement in
the indictment, and will not tend immediately
to that which will be the question in this case :
for there is recited in the indictment the con-
viction of Coleman in this place, and others in
other places, for the high- treason the evidence
whereof these persons are indicted for scanda-
lizing, we have here the Records ready to
prove it.
L. C. J. I suppose they will admit that.
Recorder. If they will not, we have that
which will prove it.
Mr. Wit him. My lord, we shall not stand
upon that.
Sol. General (sir Fr. Winnington,) We are
ready, if you do.
Serj. Maynard. And you will admit that
Dr. Oates and Mr.Bedlow were witnesses upon
those trials ?
Mr. Within*. Yes, and gave evidence very
considerable.
Recorder. Then, my lord, we must hint to
you, that Lane, who is one of the persons taken
notice of in the indictment, was a servant to
Dr. Oates ; Knox was not in his service, but
Knox is a man that made use of' Lane as a
handle to the matter he had designed ; there-
fore letters are prepared, but by whom ? That
we shall give you an account of was by the di-
rection of Knox, though the letters that will be
produced, are directed to Knox himself.
L. C. J. Your indictment says so.
Recorder. But we shall give you an account,
that he was director of those letters himself;
hut as your lordship may observe,, there are
not only letters, but some accusations or in-
formations. We shall prove to your lordship
whose hand-writing they were, aud who dic-
tated those infonnations : for I think that Mr.
Knox is pretended to have the most brains ;
and I believe Mr. Knox, in the consequence,
will appear to have the most malice. And we
shall prove in the next place, that inasmuch
as it would be natural in the course of justice
to ask whether these persons should not have
money for the reward of such a business; we^
shall prove that there were treaties with Mr.
Lane, and one Mr. Osboro who is not indicted,
(but was likewise a servant to Dr. Oates, and
had thereby an opportunity of deceiving him)
that they bad meetings; how guineas have
been cunningly dropped down, which was to
prevent, as I was acquainting your lordship,
any such Question that should be asked, what
monies and rewards they were to have for this
great discovery of any wickedness that Mr*
Oates should be guilty of. Mr. Knox, he pre-
pares them in this manner. At every meeting,
when they were discoursing and pursuing this,
business, then by some unlucky accident or
other, Mr. Knox he is to drop a guinea or two,
according as Mr. Lane and the other person
ST)
771] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial qfT. Knox an d John Lane, {in
fellow ; and all the whole guard know him to-
be a lying fellow, and that there is no truth in
him.
L. C. J. All who?
Radford. All the guard ; and that is all I
can say.
Justice Jones. When was this ?
Radfotd. Above a twelvemonth ago. And
I knew that he was a lying man, and I durst
not speak of it, because I knew he was so, and
was afraid he would have put it upon me.
L. C. J. What, he told you that his son told
him so ?
Radford. No, he told me only that his son
was weary of Dr. Oates's service ; and I told
him that he was come away once before, and
why did he go again ? He said his son could not
be quiet.
L. C. J. Did he say his son told hioi ? The
question is plain : Did he speak it of himself,
and not that his son told him ?
Radford. He said only that he had attempted
his son.
Att. Gen. My lord, we will call Thomas Al-
len. [Who was sworn.]
L. C. J. What is this man's name.
Att. Gen. Mr. Allen, my lord. What do you
know of any application to bring this Lane into
Oates's service ? Tell your whole knowledge of
the matter.
Allen. My lord, about the month of Dec.
last, when he was gone out of Dr.. Oates's ser-
vice
had occasion, or a desire to have it; but none
were to be given, but as by accident, as if Knox
holding his guineas in his hand, or in some
other accidental way should drop them ; and
then Qsborn and Lane were to pick them up
in a kind of a jest only, as if Knox had acci-
dentally let them fall, and they had as acci-
dentally taken them up. How this came to he
discovered, we must give you an account. Mat*
ters being thus prepared by the instigation of
Knox, and transacted so far by Lane and Os-
born, they thought it then fit to put their de-
sign in execution. Accordingly their informa-
tions are produced before a justice of peace,
who finding the matters were improbable, (for
I think they had some scrutiny before the Jus-
tice of Peace, and before the Lords' Committees
of the Lords' House) one of tbem, gentlemen,
though now he is pleased to say he is Not
Guilty, yet at that time had a little more in-
genuity, and did confess the whole matter, and
how he was drawn in, and how far be was con-
cerned, and how Mr. Knox had directed him,
and the money and rewards he had received,
and that besides, divers other sums of money
had been promised, and great rewards offered
in case this design had taken effect. We shall
call our witnesses before your lordship, and
give in evidence the informations that they had
intended to . offer ; and if we shall prove the
matters that have been opened to you, I be-
lieve the consequence of this case will appear
as much to concern the government, as any
chat hath come to this bar.
Sir JFV. Winnington. My lord, if your lord-
ship please, we shall now go to prove our case ;
the question was asked whether they would ad-
mit the several attainders of those persons that
have been executed for this Plot. I now ask
1 them, whether they will admit the several im-
peachments that are also mentioned in the in-
dictment, both of the five lords in the Tower,
and also of the lord Dauhy.
Mr. Wit him and Mr. Scroggs. Yes, we do.
Justice Pemberton. All that they will allow.
Recorder. Then we begin with Mr. Radford .
[Who was sworn.]
Att. Gen. What is your name, Sir ?
Radford. Robert Radford.
Att. Gen. Come on, Mr. Radford, tell my
Jord and the jury what you know concerning
this business, about Lane and Knox.
Radford. Sir, if it please your honour, R.
Lane, father of John Lane, was a yeoman of
the guard extraordinary, and I am one of his
majesty's yeomen of the guard. As ha was in
waiting, he was telling me a stpry—
L. C. J. Richard was ?
Radford. Yes, Richard the father was tell-
ing me that Dr. Oates did attempt his son
many times to do such and such things to him,
that was in the way of buggery ; said I, Richard
I am ashamed of you, that you should cherish
your son in such things as these are; so I went
away in anger, and told Kim, That if he were
my son, T would correct him severely for it ;
and said no more, knowing him to be a lying
L. C. J. Who was gone out of Dr. Oates's
service ?
Alien. Lane ; he desired me to intercede for
him again and again, and accordingly he was
admitted into bis service again.
Att. Gen. Did you hear any discourse be-
fore this, of any attempt upon him ?
Allen. How attempt ?
Att. Gen. Did you ever hear of any com-
plaints made by Lane against Dr. Oates ?
L. C. J. Did you ever hear Lane complain
that his master would be uncivil with him ?
Allen. No, I remember nothing of that.
Recorder. Now, if your lordship please,
we shall give your lordship an account, that
when he was admitted again, he bragged he
should get a great sum of money; and for
that we call Mr. Samuel Oates. [Who was
sworn J
L. C. J. Are you brother to Mr. Oates ?
S. Oates. Yes, Sir.
Att. Gen. What do you know of any sum
that this Mr. Lane did pretend to get, and on
what account ?
& Oarer. My lord, about a matter of a fort-
night before be went away from my brother, I
was in the withdrawing room
L. C. J. How long is it ago since he went
away ?> • 1
S. Oates. It was in April last, as near at I
can remember.
L. C. J. Well, go on, Sir.
S. Oateti So there were several set van* in
the room, and they were talking and laughing
773]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charj.es II. 1 67 9. —/or a Misdemeanor,
[774
together ; and be w*s wishing, said he, I wish
I bad 1,000/.; said some of them to him.
What wtfuld you do with it ? Said he, I would
take it and fliug it upon the ground, and tum-
ble in it; says one of them, You may wish
long enough before you have it ; I question
not, says he, but ere long to find a way to get
1,000/.
Recorder. Do you bear him, gentlemen ?
This was a fortnight before he went away.
S. Oates. I can only speak as to Osborn, as
to the thing itself.
Att. Gen. Did you ever hear him say which
way he did intend to get this 1,000/. ?
S. Oates. No, I do not remember that;
hut upon these scandalous things coming out,
I was considering what he had said, and how
he behaved himself in his service, and upon
recollection, I did think of this sayipg of his.
Justice Pemberton. Aye, he recollected it
afterwards.
Mr. Williams. Speak those words over again,
as near as you can remember.
[Then Mr. S. Oates repeated his evidence to
the same effect.]
Sir Fr. Winnington. What is that of Osborn
tkat yon, can say ?
X.. C. J. What does that signify to these de-
fendants ? ,
Sir Fr. Winnington. Although he is not a
party that -does defend this matter ; yet it is
all one entire act that they three were in com-
bination to corrupt the king's evidence, and to
stifle it ; and though so far as it does relate to
Osborn, it will not convict him being absent ;
yet it will enlighten the king's evidence about
the Conspiracy, for he is mentioned in the in-
dictment.
X. C.J. Well, if yon think it material^ you
may ask what questions you will about it.
8. Oates. I was asking Osborn, a little after
be was let out of the Gate-House, how he came
to repent himself
m X. C. /. Who had repented himself?
* S. Oates. Osborn.
X. C. J. Had Osborn ^repented himself, of
what ?
S. Oates. Of what he had given an. account
of before the committee.
Justice Pemberton. Do you know any thing
of that ?
S. Oates. I know nothing but what they did
say upon their examination.
*X. C. J. Were yon by and present at their
examination ?
S. Oates. I heard nothing but what they said
for themselves ; I was at some part of their
examination.
Justice Pemberton. What did Knox and
Xane say ?
S. Oates. Osborn was a saying, that as we
walked, said he, in the cloisters of the Abbey;
where he did dictate what we were to do.
X. C. J. This is no evidence. Shall what
Osborn says at one time and apart from the
rest, be any evidence here ?
Recorder. No, ray. lord, we offer it only
as nn evidence of the general conspiracy.
X. C. J. Osborn is a telling how Knotf and
Lane and he did conspire and contrive this bu-
siness ; is this evidence Against these defen-
ders ? I ask my brother Maynard.
Serj. Maynard. My lord, if this were single
clearly, it were no evidence ; but if it fall out
in the evidence, that we shall prove Osborn,
Knox and Lane were all in the conspiracy,
though it is not direct evidence to convict the
other, yet it will enlighten that evidence we
give against them.
X. C'. J. Why did you not make Osborn a
party ?
Serj. Maynard. He is laid in the indictment
to join with them, but he is run away.
Justice Pemberton. My brother intends it
thus, that the business is so interwoven between .
them all, that to make it be understood, it is
necessary to bring in something about Osborn.
Mr. Sanders. I pray they may bring some-
thing against them first. .
X. C. J. Ay, the counsel say very well on
the other side ; first prove some fact against
Knox and Lane, and then prove what yon will
afterwards. . ' '
Serj. Maynard. It is an inducement to it :
but I beseech you, in all cases that are capital,
are not the king's counsel at liberty to prove
circumstances as well as the substance ?
X. C. J. The court will direct it is no evi-
dence against the now defendants, unless yon
prove the fact upon them.
Serj. Maynard. Unless we do bring it down
to Knox and Lane afterwards, that they were
guilty, it will not be any evidence, I know.
Mr. Holt. If it be not evidence, we conceive
with submission to your lordship, it ought not to
be heard.
X. C.J. Prove something fjrst,brother, against
the defendants, and then urge this.
Recorder. They need not labour it on the
other side. We agree it is no evidence against
the defendants, but only circumstantial as of
the ceneral conspiracy.
X. C. J. But pray how can it be circumstan-
tial evidence, and yet no evidence ? prove the
conspiracy, or it signifies nothing.
Serj. Maynard. If it be circumstantial to
make good the evidence of the fact, it will be
material for us to urge it.
X. C. J* But first prove the fact.
Recorder. We shall now prove, if your
lordship please, tha,t Knox, who is one of the
persons indicted, hath made his applications to
others that- had relation to Dr. Oates, to endea-
vour to persuade them to pick out something or
other against Dr. Oates. Call Thurston and.
Ray.
Serj. Maynard. My lord, we shall first go to
the substance o£ the evidence, and then the cir-
cumstantial things will be material, which be-
fore were not material.
X. C. J. Now you go right, brother.
Serj. Maynard. We shall go this way, to
shew that line and Osborji did accuse Dr.
/
773] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL 1679.— Trial qfT. Khox and John Lane, [770
Oates ; and after they had accused him, they
were convicted in their own consciences, and
did confess they had falsly accused hiro, and
afterward did repent of that repentance ; and
that Knox had an hand in ail this.
X. C. J. I think you have not opened that
clear enough ; before whom was that accusa-
tion ?
Sen. Maynard. Before the lords, and sir W.
Waller.
Recorder, For they were in the Gatehouse,
and there they sent for Sir W. Waller to come
to tbem, and there did confess the matter to
him ; whom we desire may be swur^ [Which
was done accordingly.]
Sir W. Waller. My Lord, upon the 29th of
April, during the sessions of parliament, there
was a committee of lords appointed for the
taking instructions about this Plot : being there
attending upon the lords, this complaint of Mr.
Oates was. brought before them, of the horrid
abuse of two of his servants. And the lords
were pleased to order Mr. Warcup and myself
to take their examinations.
X. C. J. WJiat two sen ants were they ?
Sir W. Waller. They did belong to Dr.
Oates. n
X. C. J. What were their names ?
Sir W.Waller. Osborn and Lane.
X. C. J. What found you upon their exami-
nation ?
Sir W. Waller. Upon the examination of
Osborn and Lane, I did find- they did agree to*
gether to a tittle.
X. C. J. Then tell us Lane's evidence first.
If they agreed in a tittle, tell it us what it was.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, Mr. Lane did con*
fess this.
X. C. J. What, upon bis oath ?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, upon his oath, my lord.
X. C. J. To you ?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, my lord, that he had
been induced by Mr. Knox to betray his
master, and for to swear several things against
him which Knox had drawn up and dictated to
him. He did not write them himself, but Os-
hom writ them, and he did sign them. There
were four letters that were brought before us;
there were three or four memorials, as they
called them, three or four informations, which
were those papers that they carried to Mr.
Cheyney to Chelsea,
X. C. J. Who carried them ?
Sir W. Waller. Knox took Osborn and Lane
with him, and carried them thither, as Lane
swore. And when ihey came thither, and he
was acquainted with the business, be looked
upon it as so fool and notorious a thing, that he
would not meddle with it ; but he advised them
that they should go (because Knox pretended
the lord of Dan by was much concerned in it)
to some other Justice of Peace, of some of the
Privy-Council that wtre friends of my lord of
Dauby.
X C. J. Knox advised this, did he ?
Sir W. Waller. No, they said Mr. Cheyney
did. They went afterwards (and they did all
confess it) to Mr. Dewy, and Mr. Dewy gave
them the same answer, that he could not med-
dle with it. And after this Mr. Knox went and
took several lodgings for them, fearing that Dr.
Oates would hunt after them ; and one lodging,
amongst others, was, I thiuk,the Three Flower-
de-luces in White-Fritrs. And Afterwards they
removed to a place in the paved alley betwixt
LincolnVlnn Fields and Chancery -Lane.
During which time, Knox did hid them stand
firm to what they were to. do, and they should
not want for a considerable reward, and have
wherewithal to maintain them with their foot-
men, and live very well. And, my Lord, Lane
did confess this, that he brought Mr. Osborn.
to Knox first into the Painted Chamber, and
made them acquainted there. And, my Lord,
there is one thing that I omitted; Mr. Lane did
confess to me, that Mr. Knox did, at the One
Tun Tavern I think it was, drop a guinea upon
the table, and said, I will not give it yoo, be- '
cause now I can safely swear that I never gave
you any money ; but be sure you stand fast to
these informations, and to what I have dictated
to yoo, and you may be sure you shall be well,
rewarded for your pains. And he told them
this more, ' My lord-treasurer would never
have surrendered himself to the black-roe,
unless you bad promised to stand fast to this
Evidence ;' that was, to swear to what evidence
he had dictated to them.
X C. J. Did Lane produce the informations,
and those things that Knox tempted him to
swear?
Sir W. Waller. My Lord, they were produced
before us.
X. C. J. What were they ? What was the
substance of them ?
Sir W. Waller. One part was to swear that
Mr. Bedlow should come to Mr. Oates, and say
to him, That in v lord of Dan by should offer
biiti a considerable sum of money to go beyond
sea.
X. C. J. To whom ?
Sir W. Waller. To Bedlow. And that was
only considerable as relating to Mr. Bedlow in
any part of the examination : but as to Mr.
Oates, they were to accuse him of having a
design of abusing his body; for he sent to
me-
X. C. J. Who did ?
Sir W. Waller. Lane sent twice. Upon his
first examination he did seem to be very shy ;
but upon the second, he sent one Rix to me.
one of the yeomen of the guard, to let roe know
that he was troubled in his -conscience at what
be had unjustly done in charging Mr. Oates,
and that he was desirous to discharge his coo-
science of the burden that lay on it, and to
wave bis own reputation, that be might acquit
the innocent
X. C. J. Why, where was the villainy done
that he repented off
Sir W. Waller. My Lord, it was in reference
to his swearing against Dr. Oates.
X. C. J. Where, before the Lords ?
Sir W. Waller. He was brought that very
777]
STATE TRIALS, 31-Charlm II. iW9.—Jbr a Misdemeanor.
[77d
morning before the Lords; but notice being
come that the king was come in, and the house
was sitting, he was remanded, and afterwards
sent Rix to me, to tell me, he was sensible of
the injury he had done to Dr. Oates, and would
make a confession of all.
L. C. J. Where had he done him injury ?
Sir W. Waller. In reference to those abuses
that he had offered to swear, and I think had
sworn, hut before whom I don't know ; I sup-
pose you will have, an account of that by and
L. C. J. So then this is the substance of what
you say as to Mr. Oates, That Lane sent to you
and shewed you several papers and informations
against the credit of Oates and Bedlow, and
told you that Knox did tempt him to justify this
and swear it ; and that he went with them to a
Justice of Peace in order to do it, but he did
not care to meddle with it, and bid them apply
themselves elsewhere, and afterwards they came
to you ; and whether it was sworn or no, you
cannot tell, but you say he did confess he had
wronged Mr. Oates in those scandals that he
would have put upon him ; and that this was
by Knox's advice and direction ?
Sir W. WaHcr. But there is this thing further :
He said truly that Mr. Oates would be some-
thing hasty and passionate, but that he4 was
very religious, and was very constant in send-
ing bis servants to prayers ; and that what he
had accused him of, it was an abominable
falshood, and was done by the instigation of
Knox, who had encouraged biin to it by the
promises of a great reward.
Justice Pemberton. And it was he that told
yon of the dropping of the guinea, was it not ?
Sir W. Waller. My Lord, he did confess that
himself, but he said he lent it.
Sir F. Winnington. Pray did Lane confess
to you from whom thb money and reward was
to be bad ? for he was not a person that was
likely to bestow so much money of his own.
Was it from any of the conspirators? Or from
whom, that the reward, and this money should
come, upon your oath ?
Sir W. Waller* I have examined them many
times as to that, but could never learn ' any
thing.
Just. Pemberton. Sir W. Waller, was Knox
ever before you ?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, my lord, I took his
examination, and it was only to excuse him-
self, that he received the letters from them,
which they said they writ out of trouble
of conscience, and would have him to take
their examinations and to go along with them
before a justice of peace.
X. C. J. That was Knox's defence; said he,
they came to me, and I did not go to them,
but they desired me to ge along with them to a
justice of peace.
Justice Pemberton* Did you lot him know
what they had said to you?
Sir W. Waller. No, my lord, J. kept that pri-
vate : But there was one thing very material.
That morning we took Knox's Examination, we
were so long about it, that we could not dis-
patch it in the forenoon, and therefore ordered'
Lane to be brought before us m the afternoon ;
and then did Knox write a note, and sent it up
by a woman that was a nurse there in the
prison, and there was % paper conveyed
through the door to him to this purpose, « We
* paid our — '
L. C. J. Who writ that note ?
Sir W. Waller. Knox did, and confessed it
tome.
' L.C. J. To whom was it conveyed?
Sir W. Waller. To Mr: Osborn from Knox 7
and it was, ' We always paid our club'*—
IVJr. Sanders. How do you know it was from
Knox?
Sir W. Waller. He confessed it. .
Mr. Sanders. Did be shew it you ?
Sir W. Waller. No, I did not see the note,
but he confessed it.
Justice Pemberton. Pray Mr. Sanders do'
not interrupt them, they are in their ^evi-
dence.
Serjeant Maynard. They must do that, for
'that is the best part of their defence for ought
I know.
Sir W. Waller. The words, my lord, were
these, ' We always club'd, and you paid two
' shillings at the Sugar-loaf. Tear this.'
L. C. J. Why what could this be?
Sir W. Waller. Why, I will tell you, mf
lord, it was upon this account, that he should
not gain-say what he had confessed and agreed
to, that so they might not be in two stories.
Serjeant Maynard. My lord, Osborn and'
Lane had formerly accused, and given some
informatians against Dr. Oates ; afterwards you*
see what happened before sir W. Waller, tbey
renounce what they had done, and then, my
lord, was Knox imprisoned, and thereupon he
writes this note, * \Ve always club'd together,
* and you paid two shillings at such a place/
The circumstances will come out by and by.
Tbey met at several places, and we shall 'prove
that Knox bore their charges, and paid for
them, though by this n#te he would make it,,
that they bore their own charges.
Justice Pemberton. The succeeding evidence
wilt open it.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, here is one thing
more that I had forgot : Lane did confess, that
for the preventing of any discovery of this hor-
rid fact, it was agreed among thebi, that if any
one should make a discovery of it, the other
two should murder him.
Sol. Gen. We. desire that the jury may ob-
serve that.
Sir W. Waller. He did likewise declare, that <
the lords in the Tower would not be wanting to
acknowledge the kindness in disparaging the> "
king's evidence.
Justice Pemberton. That was Lane and 0*«
born did confess that ?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, both Lane and Osborn^
swore it positively. •
Sir Fr. Winninpton. If you have done as to
Lane, pray acquaint my lord and the jury what
\
A
770] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— Trial of T. Knox and John Lane, [780
)ou know of the confession of Knox upon his |
examination.
Sir W. Waller. Knox confessed not any
t,hing, but stood stiff to it, that the papers and
letters were written by them, aud contrived by
them. ,
Justice Pemberton. And that what he did
was at their request ? '
Sir W. Waller. Yes, but the rest did both
confess, that what was done was wholly by the
contrivance of Knox.
X. C. J. Did you ask Knox if he had drop-
ped a guinea ?
Sir W. Waller. My lord, he confessed he
had dropped a guinea, but it was only to lend
tbem, and they promised to repay him ; and
that one morning he dropped ten shillings upon
the bed, and they took it up.
X. C. J. Knox said he only lent it?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, but they positively
swore both the one and the other.
Justice Pemberton. What said Knox to
that? *
Sir W. Waller. He lent them only.
X. C. J. Well, go ou, Sir.
Sir W. Waller. And Lane did positively con-
fess, that at all the places, and the several
Ipdgings, and the treats and entertainments they
had been at, they were all at Knox's charge,
except twice, which .might amount to about
eighteen pence, and that he paid.
. tf. C. J. What said Knox to it?
Sir W. Waller. He denied all.
Justice Pemberton. As to the manner of it,
what said Knoxto the dropping of it?
Sir W. Wpller. He confessed he dropped it,
but only lejit it them.
Sir Fr. Winnington. You say Lane was a
servant to Dr. Oates, pray whose servant was
Knox?
Sir W. Waller. He did belong to my lord
Dunblane. And moreover, Mr. Knox did
confess to me, that the papers so drawn up and
delivered into .his hands, had been in the cus-
tody of my lord Latimore for a long time.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Did he so, I hope the
jury will believe him then.
X. C. J. Sir W. Waller does swear, that
Knox confessed that all those scandals raised
against Dr. Oar.es, had been by his hands deli-
vered into the hands of my lord Latiinore, and
were there fov some time.
Sir W. W. Yes, my lord.
Sir Jr. Winnington. I did not well hear you,
Sir, one thing you were saying in the beginning
of your evidence, that these gentlemen spoke
of my lord of Dan by 's not surrendering himself,
pray let us hear that over again.
Sir W. Waller. Mr. Lane said this, that my
lord of Danby would hot have surrendered him-
self to the Black-rod, but that he did depend
upon their standing to what informations they
had given in.
X. C. X Upon your oath Lane did say
this?
. Sir If. Waller. Yes, my lord.
Serjeant Maynurd. My lord, now we will
call another justice of peace, that took their
Examinations, and we shall then particularly
apply ourselves to Mr. Knox, that, seems to
make these excuses for himself. Call Mr. Jus-
tice Warcup. [Who was sworn.]
Warcup. I must beg the favour of the court,
because my memory is bad, that I may refer
to the Informations that were taken before me.
Just. Pemberton. You may look upon them
for the refreshment of your memory.
Warcup. 1 answer te every part of this
that hath my hand to it, I desire it may be read.
Recorder. No, that can't be, you must not
read them, but only refresh your memory by
them.
Warcup. This John Lane did confess he lir'd
with Dr. Oates, and about the 7th of April he
left him, and while he lived with him, he said,
he sent his servants daily to prayer in the room-
ing to the chapel, and. left but one at home to
dress him, and whilst he was with Dr. Oates,
he was never charged by his master with the
opening of any Letters, and that the informa-
tions majked 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.-
Williams. Pray, sir, acquaint the court
far as you can by your memory.
Warcup. Lane, my lord, before me denied
all that he had said, that is, that what be had
said before the lords was true,, but that parti-
cular examination before sir W. Waller was by
him alone.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Was he upon oath he*
fore you ?
Warcup. Yes I find he was.
X. C. J. Did you examine him after sir Wil-
liam Waller, or before ?
Warcup. To the best of my remebrance it
was before. .
Just. Jones. He was upon his oath here too ?
Warcup. Yes, and I must acquaint you I
find it at the bottom to be (Jurat.) He was
brought before the Lords of the Committee for
Examinations, and did there likewise at first
swear the things in these notes contained, and
did afterwards come to the said committee,
and beg their' pardon, and God's pardon for
what he bad sworn, for it was false.
X. C. J. Who did ?
Warcup. Lane did.
X. C. J. Did you hear him ?
Warcup. Yes.
Just Jonet. Was be upon his oath the last
time, when he said this to the committee?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, my lord, I was by too,
I heard him.
X. C. J. So he swears backwards and for*
wards. -
Sir Fr. Winnington. Such people used to
do so.
Warcup. That particular of the Note, that
Mr. Knox sent up by the nurse, I was by and
did hear him confess it.
Sir \V- Waller. But he did declare there to
the committee, that it was his voluntary repen-
tance, and that he was exceeding sensible of
the abuses he had offered to Dr. Oates, in this
design of accusing him in such, a manner.
781]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679— for a Misdemeanor.
Just Jones. • What, before the lords ?
Sir W. Waller. Yes, my lord.
War cup. Mr. Knox did say he -sent such a
Note op to Osborne, and the words were, as I
remember, ' We always club'd and you paid
* two shillings at the Sugar-loaf, Tear this/
L. C. J. Look you, the use I see that would
be made of this, is that Knox in a secret way
should give intimation to this Osborne, that he
should not own that he had been treated by
him, or any money speut upon him, and this
Note is the canning way of insinuating that
matter, as I understand it.
Warcup. I shall humbly acquaint your lord-
ship with one thing further ; Knox did confess I
that he had lain with these people in. several
private places, for there were warrants out -for
the the apprehending them, upon the informa-
tion given by Dr. Oates of this contrivance,
that he had lain with them at White-Friers*
and Charing- cross, and at other places.
Just. Pemberton. That he hadobscured them
when they were in danger.
Warcup. That he had lain with them at that
time.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Pray, upon your oath,
when he "had told you he had lain with them in
any private lodging
Just. Pemberton. Did be say he bad advised
them where to lie ?
Warcup. He said he had been with' them,
and advised them where to lie.
Just. Pemberton. Did he say he had taken
lodgings for them ?
Warcup. Yes, he did.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Your question, sir, hath
prevented mine ; but I wonld ask him a ques-
tion further. Did he confess to you he paid for
those lodgings ?
Warcup. Truly, my lord, unless I read the
information, I cannot tell.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, I perfectly remem-
ber this, That Knox did confess he had paid
for their lodgings, bv$A they were to pay him
again ; but both Osborne and Lane did posi-
tively swear he did pay for all, and several
times at several taverns where he treated them,
he bid them call for what they would and they
should have it. '
Sol. Gen. What do you know of being at the
Sugar-loaf at any time ?
• Warcup. I tell you what I find here he con-
fessed, that they complaining they knew, not
where conveniently to lodge, 'this examinant
told them he would endeavour to find them a
lodging, and the very self-same day, he went
by the direction of one of my lord Dunblane's
•ervants, a coachman, to the Sugar- loaf in
White-friers, and took lodgings as for himself
and two of his friends, and lay there with them
to the time of hw going from the same lodg-
ing, which was five or six days.
Just. Pemberton. And he did it by the di-
rection of my lord Dunblane's coachman ?
Warcup. Yes, my lord, it is so in the infor-
mation, '
Serj. Maynard. Is that information true ?
2
Warcup. Yes, my lord, I am sure he said
it, or I should not have writ it down.
L. C. J. k\s. Warcup, had Lane recanted
what he had said against Mr. Oates at that time
when the lodgings were taken?
Warcup. My lord, it was before they came
to the lords that they took these lodgings.
Just. Pemberton. Ay that is clear, it was be-
fore all came out.
Warcup. I was commanded by the House of
Peers to give my warrant for the apprehending
of thetn.
L. C. J. The lords sent to apprehend them
upon the slander of Mr. Oates, and then he con-
cealed them.
Recorder. My lord, sir W. Waller speaks of
one Rix that was sent by Lane to him to make
a discovery, this is the gentleman, [Who was
sworn.]
Rix. May it please your lordship, there was
one Osborne that was concerned with this
Lane, who is since run away : Osborne came
first upon the guard to me, and desired me to
get him into service. He desired to come into
my lord-treasurer's service, and what he desired
of me was to frame him a petition to my lord-
treasurer. We had no answer till two days
after, and I being upon the guard with Dr.
Oates, I did suppose I might get him into his
service, I spoke to Dr. Oates, and he entertain-
ed him ; and after he had entertained him a
while, this Lane then being a servant with him,
they both told me they were a going off bow
from Mr. Oates.
L. C. J. Who told you f
Rix. Lane and Osborne, and that they should
get preferment ; they were sworn brothers to-
gether, if one did go, the other would go. I
asked them why they would go away ? Oh, said
he, I shall keep my man myself. Say you so,
said I, I have been in town so long, and I coujd
get no such preferment. Then they told' me
they* should have 100/. a ' year, and 500/. in
money.
Justice Pemberton. Who told you so ?
Rix. Osborne and Lane both.
• Justice Pemberton. What, 100/. a year, and
500/. a-piece.
Rix. Yes : so I asked them how, but -they
would not tell me, hut said Osborne to me, for
your preferring me to Mr. Oates, you^shall be
no loser. I met him another time, for Osborne
came to desire me to lend him a cravat. Said
he, I must come down to your house to-morrow
morning to get a cravat, I desire I may have
a good one, for I am to go before one of the
greatest peers of the realm to dine with him :
where, said I, to which end of the town ? The
other end of the town, said he to me : but,
said I, why do you leave Mr. Oates ? Oh, said
be, let Mr: Oates look to himself, for I have
enough against him. Then I smelt something
of some design against Dr. Oates, and brought
it before justice "Warcup, and gave in my testi-
mony, and upon further inquiry into it, the
Lords ordered him to send out his warrant for
the taking of those fellows, Knox, Lane, and
753] STATE TRIAJJS, 31 Charles II. 1070.— Trial of T. Knox andJolm Lane, [784
Osborne, which lie assigned over to rae ; in a
short time after they were taken* first Lane
was taken, and in a day or two Osborne and
Knox, and were examined and taxed with ir.
O^bornetie made a confession before justice
Warcup, and they desired me to see Knox and
Lane, in prison, and 1 did see them in prison,
and when they did come there, Knox said,
^HThere is Osborne, why do not he come to
prison as well as I ? I am a better gentleman
than he. Oh, said I, he hath confessed.; so he
was turned op into the- prison. Said X to Mr.
Lane, will you drink a pot of beer ? said be, I
do not much care if I do ; and said he, Mr.
Rix, if I hase not gone too for against myself,
if you will stand my friend, I will make an
honest confession. Said I, I am glad there is
so much grace in you, I will then do you all the
good I can* ' Pray, said he, will you' please to
go and call sir Wn>. Waller ? Why not justice
Warcup, said I, who was first concerned in
this discovery ? No, he would have only sir
Wm. Waller. I came and found hira in the
Court' of Reouests, so I went with him to
Smith's the tobacconist near the gate, and sent
for Lane; the keeper brought him : I think
this w%s about nine or ten in the .morning, and
from that time till about six at night he was in
examination. I then went to Mr. Oates, and
^told him Laae bad made an honest confession.
I waited on sir Wm. Waller till the afternoon,
and then he made an order, that he having
made an honest confession, should have the en-
largement of the prison, and not be confined,
as others were, which, be had. Lane sent for
me the next day, I came down in a day or two
after, and his sister was there with him, they
were eating butter and radishes, and when I
would have paid for the drink, Lane cried,
' No, by no means ; for Knox hath sent me in
23f. the other day, and that will serve me, I
hope, till I come out: but now, said he, I have
made a confession, I believe I shall have no
more money from him ; and I desire you would
speak for my enlargement. I came down to
him another time, and be told me he had re-
ceived a note, which note was put up from a
gentlewoman in the street. "That if he would
stand firm to his text, he should have 500/. ;
nay be should not want 1,000/. ; but in case
they womid not stand firm to their text, the
Lord Treasurer would never have come in;
and if yet they did not stand firm, he would
lose his bead.11
L. C J. Who came that note from ?
Sir W. Waller. He told me this, That there
was such word brought to him by the nurse,
and she told him, That a gentlewoman very
well clad came to her, and desired her to speak
to him to stand fast, and that Osborne and
Knox would be sure to stand fast, and that
they two should be too strong for the other, he
being but a single evidence ; and more than
that, he should not want 1,000/. if he had oc-
casion for it. I asked the nurse what the gen-
tlewoman's name was, she told me, she had
asked, bnt she would not tell her.
L. C. J. Where is this woman, this nurse?
Sir W. Waller, She was nurse to the gaol,
and was turned out upon this discovery by the
gaoler.
Justice Pemberton. You bad (his from Lane,
sir Wm. Waller? "
Sir W. Waller. Yes.
Rix. My lord, after this was done, Lane*s
father and mother told me this at my own
house, that had it not been upon their son's ac-
' count, my lord Treasurer would never have
come in; and they told me that one ilest
should come and tell them so : and Lane him-
self told me, he thanked God that now he bad
made an honest confession, that now bis heart
was very light; be had a burden upon him be-
fore, but now he had confessed, and his heart
was ligbt. i
X. C. J. What did he confess ?
Rix. He did confess, That my lord Trea-
surer would never have surrendered himself if
he bad thought they would not have 6tood firm,
and if they did not stand firm he should lose hi*
head..
Mr. Williams. You say Lane confessed this
as of himself.
Rix, Yes, and afterwards his father and
mother told me so, and he did say as of himself,
that be bad a note put under the door.
L. C. J. But from whom had be that note ?
Rix. From a gentlewoman in the street, he
told me so.
Justice Pemberton. What did he say as to
Knox ?
Rix. He told me he was set on by Knox, and
he drew up all the writings for him ; and Knox
told him, if you come to be examined at such
or such a thing, make a stop, and turn this way
and that way.
Mr. Williams. Pray acquaint • the court and
the jury, Did Lane tell you how he was drawn
into this, and who drew him' in ?
Rix. Knox was the man that drew up the
writings, and promised him those rewards, he
said.
Justice Pemberton. You say he told joo that
Knox promised them? How far Knox will be
concerned in this e valence, will be considered
afterwards.
Serj. Maynard. Now we come to Knox's
own particular actings. What hath been said
already, hath been out of other people's mouths,
now we come, to him himself, and we call
Richard Slightam [Who was sworn.]
Att. Gen. Pray, Mr.' Slightam, will you tell
my lord and the jury, what you know of this
Knox, what offers have been made you, by
whom, and when, and for what ?
Slightam. I was offered money to carry notes
from the one to t(ie other.
Sol. Gen. Why, what office had you there ?
Slightam. I was a prisoner there myself, and
under-gaoler too, and I was offered money to
carry notes between the one and the other, that
they might not betray one another.
Recorder. By whom?
Slightam. By Koo*. '
785]
STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— /or a Misdemeanor.
[78«
L. C. J. What did they offer you ?
Siightam. I had three half-crowns given me
at one time by Knox, and he promised me he
would give me a considerable sura.
L. C. J. But he did not name the sum ?
Siightam. No.
L. C. J. What did he desire you to do for that
money ?
Siightam. He desired me to carry notes from
the one to the other, that they might not be-
tray one another.
Att. Gen. Between whom ? Name them.
Siightam. Knox, Lane, and Osborne. ■
L. C. J. What did you say, that they might
not betray one another ? Why ?
Siightam. Yes, that they might not betray
one another, for they were fearful tltat they
should, because they could not speak together,
to lay their stories together.
Att. Gen. And hark you, Sir. What mes-
sagesjdid yoo carry between tbem ?
Siightam. None, I never carried any*
L. C.-J: No, what had you your mouey for ?
Siightam. I told them of it below,, and they
would not let me carry any.
L. C. J. But you got your money ?
Siightam. Yes, I got some money:
Att. Gen. Knox you say gave you the three
half-crowns. Did you speak with Lane and
Osborne ?
Siightam. Lane I spoke with every day,
and Lane said, he hoped that the lords would
not put him in the pillory, for all he had sworn
falsely.
L.C.J. What lords?
Siightam. My lord Shaftesbury, and my Lord
Privy Seal.
Mr. Smith. What did Knox say to you after
Osborne had confessed ?
SLghtam. That is nothing, said lie, if we do
bot stand firm together, what Osborne hath
given in evidence will signify nothing.
Mr.. Smith. Why?
Siightam. For two, he said, were better than
one.
Sir Fr. Wilmington. I think you say you
had three half-crowns given yaas^hy Knox, pray
who was the first that offered you money to
carry the notes ?
Skghtam. It was Knox.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Ayer he carried the
pone.
Slight at n. Yes, I suppose he did.
Justice Jones. They were both in the Gate-
house, prisoners at that time.
Siightam. Yes, so was I. But they were
locked in several rooms, and none could come
at them.
L. C. J. But yon carried no note nor mes-
i, upon your oath ?
Siightam. No.
Mr. Williams. Pray call Mr. Dewy. [Who
assworo.l Pray, Mr. Dewy, will you ac-
quaint the Court and the Jury, what discourse
you bad with Knox, who he came from, what
he came about, and what recommendations he
brought with him, and from whom ? |
YS)L. vil. I
• Demy. My lord, some time in the sitting o£
the last parliament that began in March, about
ten o'clock at night a message was sent in to
me that one would speak with me from my lord
Latimer : I was cither in bed, or going to bed ;
and I did not think there was really any such
.message, because my lord Latimer did not
know me, nor I him. They were very press-
ing to come in, insomuch as my man could
hardly keep them out. I told them there was
nothing sure of so much haste, but what might
be done to-morrow, or some other time : So £
spoke not with them that night. Either the
next day, or some short time after, as I remem-
ber, Mr. Knox came to me with another gen-
tleman, and he brought papers in his hands
ready written ; be told me that they were in-
formations of one Lane and Osborne (as I re-
member those were the names he mentioned
then and tbey were against Mr. Oates. Then
I began to look upon it as something extraor-
dinary, the parliament being then sitting, and
the committee of each House having tbe exa-
mination of this business. Said I, Mr. Knox,
you have been a justice of peace's clerk (for I
knew him so) and you know it is very unusual
to take informations against a person without
the party's being present, if he may be had, to
cross-examine the witnesses upon interrogato-
ries, as the case may be : And besides this
looks as if it were to take informations against
tbe king: which we never do upon oath. Sol
dismissed tbem, and directed tbem to the com-
mittee of secrecy of the House of Commons,
for whom it was most proper. This is all I
know of this business.
Mr. Williams'. Did Mr. Knox tell you any
thing that was contained in those examina-
tions ?
Dewy. Yes, he did give roe some informa-
tion, that Osborne and Lane did repent of
something, but I can't give yoa information
particularly.
Mr. Williams. Pray tell the substance of it.
Dewy. I can't remember what the particu-
lars were, but Lane and Osborne were tbe par-
ties to be examined, and I shifted (hem off as -
well as I could,
L. C. J. Did they come along with Knox ?
Dewy. They were not in my room, but they
were without, I believe.-
L. C. J. And did he tell you at the same
time that they had recanted?
Dewy. Truly, fny lord, I can't welf remem-
ber; but he said they repented of what they
had falsely accused my Lord Treasurer of.
L. C. J. Did they say they had falsely ao*
cused Mr. Oates ?
Dewy. No, they did charge Mr. Oates with
some crime ; and they did speak something of
false accusing, I can't remember what.
L. Q. J. Did not tbey say, Mr. Oates ?
Dewy. I remember it now ; it was as if Mr.
Bedlow and Mr. Oates had made a conspiracy
against my lord of Danby.
Sir Fr. Winnington. I think you say, you
knew Mr. Knox a justice of peace's clerk i
3E
«7] STATE TRIAIiSi 31 Craklbs Ih 1679.— TMalqf T.tnox and John Lane, [788
Pray, Sir, you are «i ingenuous matt, from
whom did he pretend to come to you ?
Deny. He came to me from my lord Lati-
mer, as he said.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Did be say so, thai the
lord Latimer wished him to go to you ?
Dewy. Yes ; and I wondered at it, because
I did not know my lord, nor my lord me.
Mr. Wiihins. W lien was this?
Dewy. It was the Utter end of April or the
beginning of May, as I take it ; I do not very
well remember : but the substance of it I re-
member was, that they had overheard Mr.
Gates and Mr. Bedlow conspiring ogainst my
lord of Dan by.
L. C. J.. Mr. Dewy, can you remember
whether they did come to give yon information
against Mr. OateS for abusing their bodies, or
Cares and Bedlow's conspiracy against the earl
ef Dan by ?
Demy, Truly, my lord, I can't be positive in
it ; for the parliament was then sitting, and I
shifted them off.
Justice P ember ton. You never looked into
the information at all ?
Pewy. No, I did not, I thought it not proper
for me.
Recorder. Call Henry Wiggins and his mo-
ther. [Who were both sworn.!
Att. Gen. Come on, Mr. Wiggins, what do
you know of any endeavours of Knot or Lane,
or any of these persons, to take off or scanda-
lise Mr. Oates's or Mr. Bedlow's testimony ?
X. C. J. What is this man's name ?
Att. Gen. Henry Wiggins.
Wiggins. About the latter end of February
rost, Mr. Knox and I met at Charing Cross,
and we went in and drank together ; and- he
proposed several things to me ; first he desired
that I would get for. him a copy of the papers
my master had.
L. C. J. Who is your master f
Wiggins. Mr. Bedlow. And especially
what concerned my Lord Treasurer ; as also to
take a journal of all my master's actions ; and
the names of the persons that came to him ;
for, said he, my lord hears that my 'lord of
Shaftesbury and the duke of Buckingham do
cabal with him against my lord. But if my lord
could but find out his enemies, he would op-
pose them, and strive -to baffle, them. My
lord, to encourage me to this, be told toe he
would carry me to his lord, though it were at
midnight, to discourse with him.
L.C.J. What lord?
Wiggins. My Lord Treasurer : And he said
he should give me encouragement to go on.
Said I, Does my JorcUCtiow of this t Yes, said
he, I told mvlord I Kad a friend lifed with Mr.
Bedlow, ana he gave me encouragement to go
on and treat with him. And he said more-
over, my lord, Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow were
two great rogues ; that the king believed not
a word they said ; and as soon as he had heard
all they could say, they should be hanged.
Mr. Williams. Pray did he propose any re-
gard to you?
Wiggins* He told me his lord should give
me encouragement.
L. C. J. What shoold you do ?
Wiggins. He desired me to give my lord the
papers, and then my lord should tell me what
I should do about my master.
Sir Fr. Winnington. What did he say of
Oates and Bedlow, Sir ?
Wiggins. ' He said, That Oates and Bedlow
were great rogues, and that the king knew
them to be so ; and when he had heard what
they could say, he would hang them.
Mr. Williams. Pray upon your oath, did he
offer you any money, or any reward r
Wiggins. He ottered me not any particular
sum, but he told me 1 should have satisfaction
and reward, or any place in my lord's disposal
I should be entertained into, if I went away
upon this business.
Mr. Williams. Did he say any thing to yoo
to invite you, or encourage you te swear against
your master ?
Wiggins. No, But he told me my lord should
give me directions how to go on.
Recorder. What say you as to Lane and Os-
borne? ^ 4
Wiggins. I did not know them at that time.
Recorder. What time after was it .that you
did know tbem?
Wiggins. I met with them a littte while after,
and they were discoursing all together, but I
had no discourse with them.
Recorder. Did Knox at any time speak t»
yoo, to bring him into the company of Lent
and Osborne ?
Wiggins. No, Sir.
Recorder. This was the first time you met
with him about this matter?
Wiggins. Yes, it was.
What did you promise Knoxyoy
would do ?
Wiggins. I told him I would do him any
service that lay in my power, but nothing that
would be to my master's prejudice ; and I was
appointed by nim to meet him at my LoroV
Treasurer's.
L. C. J. AM what other meetings had you
besides? ^
Wiggins. I was but twice with him.
L. v. J. You never agreed to any thing ?
, Wiggins. I told it my master, ami it was
discovered soon after, so that the Lords came
to .hear it. •
Att. Gen. Where is Mrs. Wiggins? What
do you know of any epdeavoors to corrupt this
evidence ?
Mrs. Wiggins. Ilcnoto no more then what
mv son knows ; he first came to my house.
'L. C. J. Who ?
Mrs. Wiggins. Mr. Knox ; and asking me
where my son was, I told him he lived with Mr.
Bedlow : and he said, he very much rejoiced
at it, and desired to speak with him. I told
him, No, be could not, for his master had so
much employment for him, that it was very
seldom I myself could get a sight of bim. Said
he, I have a little concern with bim ; and be
~7&}
STATS TRIALS, 91 CaabUS a 1679.— ^r « MUkmemu*.
r»t
living wkh Mr. Bedlow, may do. my Lord-Trea-
surer great service, and doing my Lord-Trea-
sorer service, be does bis majesty service ; for
kit majesty loves my Lord-Treasurer above all
things in ibe- world. And he would not be
contradicted bet be would see him. Then
the next day I sold him be should come, and
we appointed to go to him, but he should not
see him alone without me, I told bim ; be told
tne he desired it not. He came according to
the appointment, and I carried bim to Cha-
xtog-Cross to an alehouse, and there sent a
porter for my son, and be came: and the
iirst thiag be said to him, was, I am mighty
joyful to know yon live with Mr. Bedlow;
jtoumaydo my lord great service : In what?
•ays my son. In letting my lord know what
company your master keeps, what lords they
•re that daily and hourly keep company
with your master, and cabal against my
•lord. Said 1, Mr. Knot, that is the way
to bring my son's neck to the stake ; that he
•ball never do. But, says he, I will tell bim a
way how he shall do himself no harm at all : and
then be up and told bim, be desired him to write
him letters when be found any thing of secrecy
and set no name to it ; and if he came at
twelve o'clock at night, he' would let him into
my Lord Treasurer's, and nobody should take
•otice of it : and be would have had bim taken
a coach to have gone to my lady Danby pre-
sently, to have an assurance from n*»r month of
encouragement, and that be should have any
place in her lord's disposal.
JL C. J, Were you ever with my Lady Dan*
*y?
Mrs. Wiggins. No, we denied k; and k was
discovered. And besides, my lord, I told him
if lie would lay down my son 1,000/. he should
sot do it; he should not betray his trust. And
tben he said, that the king knew Mr. Gates and
Mr. Bedlow to be two great rogues; and when
he had got what he , could out of them, be would
bang them.
" Mr. WtUiamu Have yot bad any offers of
late not to come here as a witness in this case?
Mrs. Wiggins. No, my Lord, but there nave
been persons three times at my house to know
whether I were subpoenaed, yea, or no, as from
Mr. Knox.
Mr. WiUiams. Did ever any body persuade
you not to come to give evidence ?
Mrs. Wiggins. No,
Ia C. J. When was this you speak of?
Mrs. Wiggins. In February, the latter end.
8erj. maynard. Mr. Dewy, who came in
company with M>. Knox to you ?
Dewy. One Mr. Blaydeu.
Serj. Maynard. Who is that ?
Demy. Steward to my Lord of Danby I think.
Serj. Maynard. Here is Sligbtam again, my
lDTd- A w
Ait. Gem. What have von to say more?
SUgktam. Mr. Lane told me they had many
treats, and had bed eo much money, a guinea
as I think he told me, to swear against Mr.
L.C.JL Who gave k him?
Slightam. Mr. Osborne, or Mr. Knox I cant,
tell which.
L. C. /. Where did Lane tell you so ?
SUgktam. In prison.
JL C. J. In what prison ?
SUgktam. In the Gate-house.
Mr. Williams. Call Mr. Palmer. Who was
sworn.] We call him to corroborate what that
young man Wiggins hath said.
Palmer. What he hath told here, be disco-
vered first to me, and I discovered to his
master, that Mr. Knox would have had him to
take a iournaj of his master's actions, and to
grve it him every day. My lord, I am oue of
the yeomen of the guards ^d 1 waited upon
Mr. Bedlow, and he desired me to help him to
a clerk : and I helped bim td Wiggins, this
young man. He had not been there three
weeks, or a very little time, when Knox came
to him to tempt him ; and being a stranger to
his master he knew not how to discover it to
him, and told me, such a thing is offered to me*
but I am a stranger to my master, and I know
not how to break it to bim.
L. C. J. The use you make of this, is no
more, but only to corroborate what be hath
said, that he told it bim while it was fresh, and
that it is no new matter of his invention now*
Mr. Recorder. It is very right, my lord, that
is the use we make of it. Call Thomas Dan-
gerfield. [Who was sworn.]
Mr. William*. Pray, sir, give an account
what vou know concerning Mr. Knox and Mr.
Lane, snd what designs they have had against
Mr. Dates, and who supported tbem and main-
tained them in it.
Dangtrfield. My lord, all that I have to say
in this case, is this : I do think it was in the
month of June I was at my lord Castiemaifl's,
and he asked me, if I had been imployed in a bu-
siness of Knox and Lane, that were prisoners at
the Gate-house : I told him, Not. His lordship
then wrote a letter to way lady Powis, and de-
sired I might be employed in it. And she did
tell me that it was a thing of material conse-
quence, and that I should be furnished with
money for the getting of Knox -and I/me out.
I took all opportunkies for the doing of it that
were necessary. I went to the Gate- boose,
made enquiry after Lane, and took care with
his mother to relieve him*, for I heard be was in
an indigent condition at that time.
L. C.J. Pid you give his mother the money f
Dangerfield. Yes my lord, «0t. and I bad *
that money from Mrs. Cellier by my lady Powis*s
order. After that time there was oue Mrs.
Airy, who used to carry money to. the Catholics
in prison, she said that it was possible, as she bad
been informed from some ot the priests in the
Gate-house that some thiols might be had under
the hands of Knox and Lane that would be very
material against Mr. Oates : she said, she baa
been informed so. I then desired that Mrs.
Airy, that pen and ink might be conveyed to
them, that they might havetbe convenience of
giving it under their hands, which -the promised*
4
791] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \&1Q\— Trial qfT. Knox andJaknLanc, [792
rnd they did convey pen and ink under the \
door to this Mr. Lane.
L.C.J. How do you know that?
Dangerfield. As Mrs. Airy told me. Then
she came again, and withal told ine, that it was
Mr. Knox's desire that Lane should do some-
thing to signify to him, or satisfy him that he
did stand fast ; then Lane wrote a little note,
and that note was to this effect. " I will die
before I will comply with that villain Oates ;
and if tiny good people will do me the kindness
to get me my liberty, I will do the Catholics' the
greatest service imaginable in discovering what
I know about Mr. Oates. This I now write
from the bottom of my' heart, and shall die in it.
So help me God."
L. C. J. How came you by the note ?
Dangerfield. This note was written by
Lane's own hand, and given from under the
door to one Mr. Parsons a priest in the (Sate-
home. This Parsons gave the note to Mrs.
Airy, and she gave it to me.
-L, C. J. Do you know Lane's hand ?
Dangerfield. Yes, very well, as I shall shew
you anon.
L. C. J. What became of the note ?
Dangerfitld. My lord, I do not know what
became of the note, for the countess of Powis
bad it afterwards.
X. C. J. Do you believe it was of Lane's own
writing ?
Dangerfield. I am very well satisfied of it, my
lord, according to the judgment I am capable
to give of hands ; indeed I was not acquainted
with his hand then, but (hat was the first, to my
knowledge, that ever I saw of it ; but after I
having parted with the note, and seeing some of
his hand writing, upou recollection I can sayL
believe it was his own hand.
L. C. J. Did you ever see the note again ?
Dangerfield. Never afterwards. And then
my lord, my lady Powis was exceeding glad
upon the hearing of it, and, as I was informed
of it afterwards, she was the greatest part of
the following day upon her knees giving God
thanks for the great advantage and strength that
was come to their cause.
L. C, J. What ! for having a villain to come
over' to her side that swore backwards and for-
wards?
Dangerfield. Afterwards I received money
several times, and gave his mother more to fur-
nisi) and relieve him. And several times after-
wards I received money from Mrs. Celier by
order of my lady Powis, for the doing of Lane's
. business, that is, for bis liberty ; and I had
the papers from one Lawson an attorney
that had been employed in the same business
before : and, as I was informed by him, a mo-
tion or two was made at this bar for their liber-
ty, but however he beean to despair of it, and I
Was to undertake it ; but withal he said, he was
glad he was rid of it, for he had been often
-employed in the business of the Catholics, and
it bad impaired his credit very much, and very
freely delivered the papers to me, which indeed
were not many. Afgsr that, my lord, I retained
Mr. Sunders, as I think it was he, but there was
a motion about it, and with great difficulty I
did get Lane out upon common bail ; and
when I had done so, according to my Lady
Powis's order, I brought him to Powis-bouse ;
and\hen my lady Powis ordered, that he should
go by the name of Johnson; because if any of
the servants should talk of one Lane being in
the house, it might come to Oates's ear, ibe
house might be searched, and if he were found
there, it might be prejudicial to the lords, and
all their business. And then, my lord, Mr.
Wood came a little after with the •same com-
round from his lord, aud he had -some order.
L. C. J. Who is Wood ?
Dangerfield. That Wood is my lady Powis's
gentleman : And he came and ordered that my
lady Powis gave particular command to the
porter of the house, in my hearing, that he
should give order to all the servants, to have a
particular eye and care that he did not go from
the house, for they were very dubious of him,
having made so many equivocations before ; for
they feared Mr. Oate* might find him, or be
might go voluntarily and make a discovery of
himself, and so coutradict all he had given an
account of there. For, my lord, before this, as
soon as ever Lane was gone out, they were very
desirous to have what he had to say put in writ-
ing ; but they had not opportunity then, but we
let it alone to some other time. Then, my
lord, soon after, about three weeks or a .month
aftor; I cannot be positive in the time, because
\ had a great deal of business upon my hands ;
but I suppose it was about three weeks or a
month after, my lord Powis sent for me to the
Tower, and told me he was informed that Mr.
Oates was then making search after Lane, and
if be found him at his house, it would be very
prejudicial to their business; and he desired
me to take care, and to send him oot of the
way, that Mr. Oates might not find him ; which
I did ; and thinking of several places, I could
not find any so convenient as Grays in Essex,
bv the waterside. I came to Lane, and told
htm that be should be furnished with money
and necessaries for his ioerney, and in order to
it, that very day I took him and gave him a
pair of -shoes and iOt. in his pocket, and sent
him to Grays. I received two letters after-
wards from this Lane, by which letters I am
very well satisfied, that that note that he wrote
before, that was given under .the door, was his
hand. So then I received *a third letter (I
think) my lord, nod in the letter he told me that
some person of Mr. Oates's ^acquaintance had
been in that towu and seen him, and he thought
it was not material that he staid any longer
there, and desired to be removed. So then I
shewed my lady Powis the letter, and I suppose
my lord Powis had an account of it also;* but
I cannot be positive in that, but I had order to
remove Lane, and by my lady Pkwis's means I
sent down /one on horseback, and he discharged
some debts Lane bad contracted in the house,
and sent him away to London ; aod after bis
return to London be continued three days mope
BBJ
STATE TRIALS, Si Charles II. 1679— for a Misdemeanor.
[7M
at m y lord Powis's house ; at which time, he
says, he was forced to lie upon the chairs^ for
at that time were the St. Omers's witnesses re-
moved from Mrs. Celier's, because they were
afraid of being taken up by sir W. Waller, who
was in search for them. So having some other
business, I did not send him away presently,
but I had particular order to send Lane into
some other place ; and I did advise with Mrs.
Celier where to send him, and she said, I think
it wilt be necessary to send him to Peterley, at
one Mr. Waite's house in Buckinghamshire;
lor, said she, they are catholics, and will be
sure to take a particular care of him : But I
told her it would be too far, and I would think
of some place nearer ; and then I thought it
would be necessary to send him to Tottenham,
to the White-Hart ; and there he stayed, I sup-
pose, 4 or 5 days, or a week. This was after
the trial of the 5 Jesuits, as I remember. My
Jord Powis seut to me, and told me ; says he,
I am in several doubts abo.ut this Lane, and if
it should be known that he is countenanced by
me, or any of our people, it would not be well ;
so I leave him* wholly to you, do what you will
with him ; but I ndviie you to send for him up
to town, and give him lOi. a week to live upon.
So when I was at leisure I sent for him again
from Tottenham, and I told him ; 'Mr. Lane, it
will be very necessary that you do take some
care for a livelihood about town ; it is not safe
nor advisable for you to be about . Powis-
boose ; and at that time I took care he should
come there no more, and that if my lord Powis's
servants should meet him, they should take no
notice of him; which they did perform, I sup-
pose, and as I was told. But before this, and
before I sent Lane into the country the second
time, as near as I can remember, Knox was at
liberty. I had been endeavouring, as soon as
I had got Lane out of the Gate-House, to get
Knox out also ; but I found I could not, and I
left that. But I have been informed by Mr.
Knox himself, that one Mr. Nevil, alias Paine,
was furnished with money from the lords in the
Tower, for the getting of Knox's liberty ; and
this Nevil himself did say, as Mr. Knox told
me, that he did it by their order ; and from this
Knox, by Mrs. Celier's persuasion, I received
several papers, which were informations against
Oates; or at least, those papers that they had
drawn up before they were in custody. These
papers were sent by me to the Tower, and from
thence to Mr. Nevil to enlarge upon, I sup-
pose, as he thought fit ;4 and after to my lord
Castlemain, and afterwards they were re-sent
to me by Mrs. Celier, who ordered me to draw
op an affidavit according to those directions,
and get Lane sworn to the same; which I did,
and took Lane, and asked him, said I, Mr.
Lane, here is an affidavit, can you swear it ?
Yes, said he, I can swear it, before I read it to
him;
J* C. J. I believe so.
Dangei field. Nay, said I, you know > not
what it is ; so I read it to him; said I, Do you
•know this to boa truth? Yes, said he, I do
know it to be all true : Said I, I will read it
again to you, because yoo are to make oath of
it, and I would not have you do any thing but
what is safe ; and then we went to sir James
Butler, but be was not at home then, to have it
sworn.
L. C. X What was the purport of that affi-
davit ?
Dangerfield. My lord, I cannot well remem-
ber the words, but it was about accusing Mr.
Oates of Sodomy.
L. C. J. On whom ?
Dangerfield. It was for attempting buggery
on the body of this Lane.
X. C. J. That was the substance of it ?
Dangerfield. Yes, my lord : And 1 did take
this ^ane to sir James Butler, and he did make
affidavit that it was true : And it was left there
before sir James Butler. I suppose the affi-
davit may be in court, or a copy of it. So, my
lord, after that Lane being gone from Powis-
house, and I having no manner of converse
with him more; but only that every Saturday
I took care lie* should have his money ; some-
times I went to his mother's lodgings, and left
it there for him; sometimes he would come to
me for it. After this we were removed from
Po wis- house to Mrs. Celier's, hot he was al-
ways certain of IOf. a week. Sometimes he
would pretend that it was too little for him to
live upon ; and sometimes I would give him
two, or three, or four shillings more of myself;
but I bad no order to do that from any body;
This is all, my lord, I do know of Lane, as I re-
member.
Just. Jones, What do you know of Knox ?
Mr. Dangerfield, Knox first delivered to
me those papers that were sent first first to the
Tower, afterwards to Nevil, and afterwards to-
my lord Castlemain, and re-delivered to me;
and 1 did deliver them again' to Knox, after
they were enlarged upon : And I believe, after
that, Knox had prevailed with Lane to write
them in his own hand.
L. C. J. Why do" you believe so?
Dangerfield. Because being writ in a fair
hand, Knox told me when the papers were de-
livered, These are the main things thaf I am
to work by, and these must be produced against
Oates, and be writ over in a fairer hand ; and by
that, I believe he prevailed with Lane to write
it in his own hand.
L. C.J. Whose band were tbey in?
Dangerfield. It was a strange hand I knew
not, and I do not believe it was Knox's hand,
though indeed I cannot tell, I know it not.
Justice Jones. Did Knox ask you who had
the perusal of those papers? And who had
made additions to them ?
Dangerfield. No ; he took the papers, and
took no notice of any addition or enlargement.
Justice Petnberton. Pray, Sir, tell the manner
of the delivering of those papers.
Dangerfield. First, by Mrs. Celier's persua-
sion, Knox delivered me the papers, which im-
ported the whole matter of the charge against
Mr. Oates. These I sent to the Tower by Mrs.
7»1 STATE TftIAl£, Si Cjiamjm II. 1079— 1H<4 of T.&ws and John Lane, [7»
pot into writing; and I took Osborne before «
justice of peace, and he lias made affidavit of
it. When I heard this, I tltougbt it would give
great satisfaction to the lords in the Tower, and
desired Mr. Knox to let me have a copy of that
affidavit. He told me. No, he thought it would
not be material to let me have a copy, for by
that means it might become public, and he die*
covered. And, said he, I lave some farther
design in this; Mr. Oates is going down to my
lord Lovelace's in Oxfordshire, and Osborne it
going with him, and he hath promised me to be
a spy upon his master's actions, and to give aoe
an account of all. And this will be material,;
but I do not think fit to let you have a copy of
the affidavit at present. Some time after this*
I told Mrs. Celier the story, who I suppose wenc
to the Tower, and gave the lords an acceue*
of it. And the next time I had the honour to
see mv lady Powis, she was pleased to say, she
liked it very well, bat did not as I remember,
say any thing of the copy; but being desirous
to see what Osborne had sworn, and whether
it were agreeable to Lane's affidavit, that I spake
of before, I did desire Knox to let we see it, btat
be had it not about him at that time. Some
time after that, as near as I can remember,
Celier's heads; from tbenoe they were tent to
Nevil to he enlarged upon ; from thence to my
lord Casdemain, who was also £o enlarge
upon them; and from thence they were tent
to Mrs. Celier again, and from her de-
livered to me, and I delivered them to
Knox again. I found by his discourse, and
every thing else, that Mr. Knox was desirous
of my correspondence, but yet seemed as if he
were shy of any body's taking notice of it. Said
I to Mr. Knox, there is one Mrs. Downing that
lives at Lambeth over the water, where Mr.
Oates and Dr. Tongue, and several other* per-
sons used to meet, where I had been informed
by some of the Catholics, by Parsons, my lady
Powis, and several others, that Mr. Oates, Dr.
Tongue, my lord of Dauby, and others, did
n*eet at the almshouses these, where the Plot
was contrived and formed, for they pretended
to roe there was no such thing really. So, said
I, if yon will go with me, we will discourse with
her a boat the matter, for I heard she talked
very freely in several matters nearly concerning
Mr. Oates, and my lord of Danby, and other
persons. So, as I said, I told him, if yoo will
go along with me, I have not been there yet, I
will go and discourse with her, and put down
Proctor's Coffee-house at Charing-
what the says in writing. Then Mr. Knox, my I I was at Proct
brother, and myself, did go over to this Mrs. Cross, and Mr. Knox came thither, wheth
Downing, and had much discourse with her,
where she did repeat many transactions that
were very agreeable to the story that I had •re-
ceived worn my lady Powis, and several other
persons before. Knox did seem to be very well
satisfied about it; and promised to take cogni-
sance of it, end said, k wee very material ; out ,
we did not pot it down in writing. I "did not, I
-4sow not what he did afterwards. We pro-
mised to oonse again another time, but I do j
not remember we did ever go afterwards. But
Mr. -Knee solicited me to go with ban, and some
business or other did stiff intervene. That is
til that itienwkable of Mr. Knox, which I do
remember at that time* But I do remember
that after we were renewed from Powis House,
when I area at Mrs. CeMtVt, nay, I think both
before and after, he wet often treating with
Mrs. Celier; but I know n6t what was their
discourse, nor wet I dctireua to know. But
Mr. Knox came then to me, end began to re-
new bit correspondence; end withe! told me,
that he had some likelihood of bringing Osborne
ever to their party. Said be, I find he is pone
again to hit master, but be shall do bis bueieess
(meaning, at I suppose, Mr. Oates) for he had,
as I understood by him at that time, been tam-
pering with Osborne, but he did tell me it was
Osborne's voluntary act, that he did own it, and
that be did go to Mr. Oates again only to de
Mr. Knox service. My lord, some time after
this, Knox came to me at Mrs. Celier's, end
told ese he bad dene the business; expieseing
the greatest ioy that could be. Whet bnsinett,
said I ? Osborne is come over, said be, and I
have had an account from the begmnjng to die
end of all the transactions of his master Oates;
nud J have not only aaaeoount<]f it, but it is
by mv appointment or hit, I cannot welt teU ;
but there we met, and one Bedford was with
me. At that tame time Mr. Knox desired we
would fto into a back-room ; and now, said be,
I will give you satisfaction, and drew out of hie
pocket an affidavit ; it was a sheet of paper, if
not written of ever? tide, I believe of three '
tides; it was very long; end he read it, mar
lord, and I did find by the contents of it, that it
did imply tbeaame thing that Lane had sworn
before sir James Butler; that is, That Mr.
Oates should attempt upon , Lane's body, to
commit Sodomy, or something very agreeable
to it. I teid him, Mr. Knox, said I, this it
very materia), this will do you a greet deal of
service. The term is coming on, you will do well
to get an indictment drawn up* against Mr.
Oates. Said he, I will do bis business, and wil
advise with persons able to instruct me in it ;
and I don't doubt but to carry on the busiaeet
effectually. And to that purpose I desired him
to let me have a copy of the affidavit; he pro-
mised me I should, and said he would bring it
several times ; and he came several timet to
my lodging, but did net brine; it; but I bavinc
it read to me, and remembering the contents eT
it, the next time I eaw my lady Powis, I gave
her an account of it. Said the, this men is
very diligent, and deserves to oe encouraged?
and, at I believe, gave the lords in the Tower
an account of k tee ; for then the wet lodged
at the Tower wkh her lord, and to her ladyship
told me. And, said the, do yoo know whether
this man be in a condition to prosecute this bu-
siness against Mr. Oates i Said the, I beheve
he if nut upon this by my lord of Danbv, and
be, I believe, takes care of hwn>to furnish biva
wish money. Said I, I have eadeavoured an
T97]
STATE TRIALS* 51 Charlu II. 167*,— >cr a MUdtmamor.
t7§S
iraoe him out in that thing, and by all bit cor-
respondents! could never find, but only by
one, that Mr. Knox was ever acquainted or
held correspondence with my lord of Danby,
and that person is Mr. Nettervirle, who is a
worthy gentleman of my acquaintance in the
Pall-mail; and being in bis chamber, Knox
came in, and speaking merrily after hb.msmner
to him, said be, Knox, when were you at the
Tower with my lord of Danby ? Said he, I
bold no correspondence with him. Yes, said
Mr. Netterville, it is plain you do; and I be-
lieve a friend of mine saw you go in the other
day: But Knox did positively deny it; that
was all that ever I heard of hit correspondence
with my lord of Danby. After this, when her
ladyship came to me to ask me what condition
he was in to prosecute the trial ; I told her, I
believed his condition was very mean, and it
would be very acceptable, if he might or could
be furnished wjth money. Wei I, -said she, I
will take care of it, and give an account of it
to my lord, and be shall be furnished. And in
the mean time, if Mr. Knox wants money, be
sure you take care and furnish him ; but you
need not let it be very considerable, till you see
what is raised. Some time after this, Mr. Knox
•ame to Mrs. Celier's house to ask for me, I
was then in my chamber, but not* ready » ne
•ame np to me, and told me, said be, Really I
asn very poor, I am going to pawn my sword ;
or something to that purpose ; Can too lend
me Si. Really, Mr. Knox, said I, I will tell you,
the affidavit that you read to me, I have given
an account of it to my lady Powis, and I sap-
pose some other persons of honour have had
an account of it also ; I am satisfied they are ;
and that the lords in die Tower will take care
that. money shall be raised for your prosecuting
of Mr. Oates. He seemed to smile at this ; But
amid be, if this should be known, it would be
very prejudicial to the business, and spoil it;
but yet however if you can furnish me with
money at this time, you will do me a great
kindness, fori have very great occasion. I
told him, said I, I have not so muoh money by
me; you come at an unseasonable time;
though indeed I told him a lie ; but I thought
k not so safe to part with money without fur-
ther order. Mr. Knox went away, and I gave
an account of it to Mrs. Celier, who went either
every day, or every other day to the Tower. I
Sold her what Ma Knox said, and 1 do believe
(as she told me afterwards) she told my lady
Powis of it, and Mrs. Celier seemed to be angry
that I did not let him have the money, and or-
dered me that at what time soever after that
Mr. Knox should come to me, 1 should .let him
have what money be wanted. Some time after
this, Mr. Knox did come to me, and said bis
condition was very mean, and you told me,
said he, that care should be taken by the lords
m the Tower to famish me with money. Said
I, Mr. Knox, I can, let yon have S0or40i. if
that will do you any kindness. I have no order
for any sum at present ; out as soon as it comes
it must come to you through my hands; and
it must passes if I lent it you; and you shall
give me a note for it to repay it, lest any thing
should come to be discovered, and coming to
Mr. Gates's hearing, should prejudice the busi-
ness ; though I had been too forward before "in
giving Mr. ItnoB an account that the lords in
the Tower would contribute to this business.
At that time, I went up stairs and fetched
down 40r. and save it him. . He came after-
wards, and would have borrowed more of me
at other times, once or twice- after that, but
I did not furnish him, for I had received no
order to furnish him any further. And this,
my lord, is all the correspondence 1 had with
him, and as near as I can remember, i hate
given nothing in but what is a very true account
of the transaction.
Sir Fr. Win. My lord, I crave one ques-
tion of him, if be have done. After the papers
were corrected and written fair, and enlarged
upon by the several persons, did you read
them ? And what were the contents of them?
Dangerficld. My lord, I did not read them,
nor did I draw them, but I do believe that the
contents were the same for substance with the
affidavit that Lane made before sir James
Butler.
Mr. William. Sir, you mention several sums
of money that you paid to Knox, and paid to
Lane ; pray where had you this money ?
Dangerfteld. The 40*. that I gave to Knox,
it was my own money ; but if I must give an
account where I had it, I believe it came origi-
nally from the Tower.
Mr. William. The 10*. a week, whence
enme that?
Dangerfield. Sometimes from the bands of
my lady Powis; at other times from Mrs*
Celier ; • sometimes from Mr. Wood ; and some-
times from myself, and I placed it to accomptb
Serj. Mmynard. If your lordship please, we
will now proceed to another part of our evi-
dence.
Mr. William. About what time were tbey
to indict Mr. Oates ? Was not this project on
foot when th* Presbyterian Plot was on foot?
Dangerfield. My lord I don't know what
time; but it was by my advice to be done this,
term, and so did Nevii advise too.
Serj. Maynard, My lord, I would read some
of the memorials or informations, that they
were to swear against Dr. Oates concerning the
business thatyou have beard. -
X G.J. Would you have them read, brother?
Serj. Mavnard. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J* Who proves them ?
Then the Justices of Peace swore them.
Just. Ptmberton. Sir W. Waller, did he con-
fess he left tbem with my lord Latimer ? -
Sir W. Waller. These are the papers, that
were confessed to be carried to my lord Lati-
mer. ' .
Warcup. Osborne did swear, that the Infor-
mations marked 1, % S, 4, and $, were all of
his own bend writing, and were dictated by the
said Knox.
Just. Pmbcrtcn. And be did- confess, the*
790] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1679.— TWo/ qf T. Knox and John, Lane, [800
these were the* Informations that he bad deli-
vered to my lord Latimer.
Warcup. Yes, he did so.
Serj.Maynard. It will lie on his part to
prove chat they were true.
Just. Pembcrton. Which will you have read,
one, or all of them ?
Serj. Maynard. One, or two, take Knox's
first.
[Which was delivered to the Clerk of the
Crown, who read it in hac verba.']
[Numb. 1.] The Information of Thomas
Knox, sworn before me this day of
1679.
" This Informant doth upon his oath declare,
That on the first of this present April, there
came one William Osborne, to the Informant
in the Painted Chamber in Westminster, and
1 told to him the said Informant, that he had
something of moment to reveal to him ; and
did also desire the Informant to go with him
into the Abbey, and he would reveal it to him:
Upon which the said Osborne and the Infor-
mant being together, the said Osborne did tell
the Informant, that his conscience was mightily
troubled, for that he found the Lord-Treasurer
was maliciously prosecuted by Mr. Oates and
Mr. Bedlow ; for that he having been a servant
to Mr/ Oates, and had often heard Mr. Oates
and Mr. Bedlow consult together, in Mr.Oates's
Chamber in Whitehall, and resolve bow they
might contrive a way whereby to destroy my
Lord-Treasurer : And that be had chosen to
reveal this secret, and ease his conscience to
the Informant, rather than to any one else, be-
cause he thought he would keep it secret, for
his own sake, because he had already suffered
by endeavouring to serve the said Lord-Trea-
surer ; and thereupon the said Osborne shewed
to the Informant some papers written, as he
tolxfr the Informant, all in his own thand, and
which were relating to the said Lord-Treasurer.
Upon which the said Informant told the said
Osborne, that be was no servant of the said
Lord-Treasurer's, and did not therefore desire
to meddle in it ; and that particularly, because
he had never spoke with the said Osborne be-
fore, and desired to be excused ; upon which
the said Osborne did press the Informant ; and
withal did tell him, that if he did not assist him
in this affair, it was resolved both by him, and
one Mr. Lane, that they would come in on the
day of the said Lord Treasurer's Trial, and de-
clare the truth concerning what they knew,
concerning the malicious design of the said
Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow, against the said
Lord-Treasurer; for that they could not rest
for fear he should suffer innocently, whilst they
coold, with so good • a conscience, as they
thought, save him. And the said Osborne did
withal declare, that the aforesaid Mr. Lane
was resolved to speak to the Informant upon
the aforesaid matter : And the said Lane did
accordingly, upon the said 1st of April in the
evening meet the Informant, and shewed him
«mm ripen, wherein he bad taken several
Memorials relating to his majesty, ' the queen,
my Lord-Treasurer, and several other persons :
And did withal declare to the Informant, that
his conscience was so troubled to see the ma*
licious proceedings of the said Mr. Oates and
Bedlow against the said Lord-Treasurer, that
he could not rest in his bed, until he had dis-
burdened it, by telljng the truth ; and if he had
not met with this Informant, he was resolved
to declare it speedily to some one else ; or come
himself at the day of the said Lord-Treasurer's
Trial, and there declare all that be knew relat-
ing to that affair. And did withal conjure the
Informant, as also the said Osborne, to keep all
they had told him secret ; for if it should come
to the ears of the said Mr. Oates and Bedlow,
they would eudeavour to poison or murder
them, the said Osborne and Lane, the first time
they should see them. Tho. Knox."
Then a second was offered to be read ; but
there appearing scandalous matter to* be in it,
reflecting on the king, the court thought not fit
to suffer the same to be read through.
Mr. Serj. Maynard. My lord, I think it ap-
pears by the evidence sufficiently, how they did
design to accuse Mr. Oates.
L. C. J. Ay, brother, come let us hear what
they can say to it on the other side.
Mr. Wit hins. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury; I am of coun-
sel for the defendant Knox, and for Knox only.
Mr. Williams. Pray, Sir, hold; my lord; we
have here two witnesses mure, that will fortify
Mr. Dangerfietd in what he hath said. Call
Susan Edwards, and Mrs. Blake.
Then Mrs. Blake appeared and was sworn.
Mr. Williams. Pray Mrs. Blake, what can
you say of any reward Lane was to have, for
accusing Mr. Oates? Or any promises were
made to him ?
Blake. All that I can say of Lane, is this;
That Lane did say once to me, I am here ; and
I was Dr. Oates's man, and he would have
buggered me : And he did make complaint for
want of linen; and spoke to me to wash him
some linen. Said he, Here I have no lioeo,
neither will they let me have any ; and his boy
here will not stir to look for any, unless Wifc
loughby speak to him. Then the boy was
spoke to.
L. C. J. What is all this? What says the
other woman ?
Mr. Williams. He is called Willough by some-
times, and sometimes Dangerfield ; for be went
by both names : But I ask you what money
you know was. given to him?
Blake. He told me, he was to be allowed 10s.
a week.
L. C. J. This is only to strengthen his evi-
dence.
Blake. He never said to me, from whom it
was.
Then Mrs. Edwards was sworn,
Serj. Maynard. What do you say, Mistress?
801]
'STATE TRIALS, 31 Coablest II. 1679.— /or a Misdemeanor.
[809
- Edwards. May it please yon, I do not know
Lane; I never saw him in ray life, bat only
when be was sent for by Mrs. Ceher, to get an
Habeas Corpus for Wiiloughby, who was then
in Newgate ; and he did come the next day,
and gave his answer to me.
X. C. /. She says nothing, but only he was
desired to get an Habeas Corpus for Wil-
leughby.
Sol. Gen. Yes, my lord, she is called to shew
you, whether Lane had not money from Mrs.
Celier. *
Edwards. That was the first time I saw him,
and the next morning I saw him again : And
when he came to the door, be told his errand to
me. He said, he could get no Habeas Corpus ;
for be was such a rogue, nobody would meddle
nor make with him.
Dangerficld. I would fain have her asked this
question, my lord, if you please: Did you ever
see Mr. Knox at Mrs. Obex's house?
Edwards. If I see hiin, I can tell.
Then the defendant, Knox, was shewn to her.
Edwards. I cannot say, this is the pan : I
have heard much talk of Mr. Knox, and that
he hath been there; but I cannot swear this is
he.
Dangerfield. My Lord, if your lordship
pleases, when Lane was first brought to me to
the countess of Powia's house, he was very
meanly equipaged, and the countess of Powis
was informed of it, and did desire me to take
some particular care to clothe him, aud that I
should put him into a disguise; but at that time
I had a suit of clothes that were lined with blue,
which I gave to him ; and I also advised him
to cut off his hair and to put on a peruke, which
be did, and hath worn it ever since as I be-
lieve.
X. C. J. Well, let us hear what they say to it.
Mr. Within*. May it please your lordship, 1
mm of counsel in this case for Mr. Knox ; there
are two persons here made defendants : as for
Mr. Lane, I have nothing t& do with him, nor
to say for him ; .and his case hath made him
appear to be a very, evil man. But my Lord,
I do observe that the indictment consists of two
parts : the first . is, that these two defendants
did conspire together; and this was the 30th
of April (and the proof comes to that time, for
k will be material in our case) that they did
xuaJiciously and deceitfully combine and con-
spire against Titos Oates, clerk, and William
Bedlow, gentleman, who had discovered this
horrid Popish Plot, and whom they knew to
have given informations of it, to take away their
reputation, and make them witnesses of no be-
lief, or credit ; that is one part of the indict-
ment. The other part is, that to further the
same, Mr. Knox did cause two or three letters
to be written, as from Osborne and Laae to
him, purporting those aspersions to be laid
upon Oates and Bedlow : for the last part of
the indictment, the counsel for the king have
not thought fit to proceed upon it, and they
have not given an account of the letters : but for
VOL. VII*
the first part, their conspiring to take off the re*
putation of Oates and Bedlow, is tlie only thing
they have proceeded upon, as I conceive. I
most needs say, my lord, that Mr. Knox, as
well as Dr. Oates and Bedlow, have had a very
great misfortune to meet with these men.
X. C. J. To meet with whom.
Mr. Withins. To meet with Osborne and
Lane ; for I do not here pretend to lay any as-
persion, or make any reflections upon the credit
or reputation of Dr. Oates or Mr. Bedlow. I
think they have served the nation too well to
be vilified here. But I shall say this, that as
Osborne. and Lane had a great design to dis-
grace and discredit Mr. Oates and Mr. Bedlow,
so they had a design to draw my client Mr.
Knox in, to pursue their malice. I did shew
you, that they did begin their evidence, as, to
time, in April, and they have laid it so in the
indictment : we shall prove to your lordship
and shew you, that before this, and before that
Mr. Knox knew either Osborne or Lane, that
they had drawn up this accusation against Mr.
Oates, and read it to several witnesses, which
we shall produce. And afterwards, when they
came to advise bow they should prosecute the
same, they were advised first to go to Mr.
Thewer: be told them that it was a dangerous
thing to meddle about, aud he would not involve,
himself, but bid them take care what they did
in it. Upon this they apply themselves to my
client Mr. Knox, he told them the same thing; it
is a matter of great consequence, I desire not to
meddle with it. Said they, will you not assist us in.
this business, when we only discover this to acquit
•asjr own consciences, who knew these things
to fe treating and contriving against the king
and my lord of Danby ? for my part, says one of
them,I cannot leave the town till I have disco-
vered it. Not withstanding this, Mr. Knox would
not undertake to meddle with it, but left them.
They come to him the second time, and Mr,
Knox being a young man, and it seems being a
servant in the family, entered into a corres-
pondence with them, to prosecute what they
had designed to do. There is nothing appears
(and this I would observe, if your lordship
please) in the whole evidence, that Mr.' Knox:
was to swear any thing against Dr. Oates or Mr.
Bedlow (as I remember) but he was indeed en-
gaged to carry on the prosecution, these wit-
nesses informing birn of it; and that it was a
truth, I roust observe to your lordship upon
their evidence, they did insinuate, as if Mr,
Knox had been at the charge of maintaining
Lane : but I think, that Mr. Dangerfield hath
pretty well cleared whence that maintenance
came that he gave to Mr. Lane ; that it came
through none of the hands of my client, Mr.
Knox.
X. C. J. No, Mr. Witbins, he is not accused
for giving him a constant maintenance, but for *
the money, the guineas and ten shillings. It is
true, it was said it was to be paid again; but
from him they had the money : and it ap-
pears, that he provided lodgings for them and
paid for their lodgings.
3F
803] STATE TRIAIS, SI Chablbs H. rt79^-7tiat qf T. Khox and John Lane, [804
Just. Pemberton. And pray observe this, that
what Mr. Dangerfield speaks of, is of a time
afterwards, after they had been taken and im-
prisoned, and confessed the matter.
Mr. Within*. But this yon observe, I hope,
my lord, from Mr. Dangerfield's evidence ; that
Knox was very poor, had not any thing to
maintain himself with^
L. C. J. The sums indeed do not seem to
be very great ; a guinea, and lOi. in silver : hut
whatever it was, he gave it them, and took
lodgings for them and paid for them.
Mr. Within*. I did intend to observe to yonr
lordship, that it is a pretty strange thing, that
there should be a design to corrupt persons to
commit this foul and horrid offence ; and no-
thing of a reward or corruption proved, but
two guineas and 10*.
Just. Pemberton. What say you to the* pro-
mises of 500/. and 100/. a year a-piece ?
Mr. Within*. That was Lane's own evidence ;
Lane and Osborne might brag what they would
of what they were lo have, and from whom;
but I believe not one in the court believed a
word they said. For it does appear that Lane
did forswear himself backwards and forwards
as the wind blew. So time, as for what Lane
harii said, it weighs not : but we shall call two
witnesses, to whom Lane declared this matter
to February and March, before the time that
Knox was concerned : so that if we make it
appear that the contrivance was theirs, and
there was only a great deal of weakness and in-
discretion in Mr. Knox to believe such idle per-
sons against persons that had shewed themselves
so considerable in this discovery ; I hope it will
not be thought such a crime in us, seeing there
is nothing in it, but that a young man was led
away ; and only his folly and his indiscretion
drew him in, not any malice or ill design.
Sir W. Waller. My lord, Mr. Knox did con-
fess to me, that he did throw down a guinea,
and then Lane and Osborne took it Dp; but
fhey both positively swore, that he threw it
down for this reason, thatJie might safely swear
he never pave them it.
Mr. Saunders. All that they swear is not agreed
fo be true : my lord, if your lordship please, I
am of counsel for the defendant Knox, and as
to that part of the indictment that charges him
with writing the letters, they do not proceed
upon.
Sen. Muynard. Yes, we do, we proceed upon
the whole
X. C. J. They proceed upon the whole, but
you may say, if you will, they give no proof
•fit.
Saunders. Then, as to that, with submission
to your lordship's judgment, the defendant is to
be found Not Guilty.
Justice Pembert on. You must observe, these
are not several crimes, but one continued crime,
and therefore the evidence must go to the
whole. *
L. Cl J. You do well to observe it for your
client ; but if you require it of the counsel on
the other side, it may be they will give you an
answer, if you will undertake to affirm, that
they have given no evidence aa to that part of
the indictment wherein it says, Mr. Knox con-
trived threeletters to scandalize Mr. Oates.
Mr. Saunders. We submit it to the court
whether they have or no. For the other part
of the indictment, wherein it is charged, that .
he should maliciously contrive with Lane to
lay a calumny and scandal upon Mr. Oates and
Mr. Bedlow, the very point we are toanswer to
is this, Whether this were a malicious con*
trivance or no, and for that we shall give' your
lordship this evidence : that Knox was a young
ignorant man, and drawn in by Lane and
Osborne to patronize their mischief they in-
tended against Oates and BeoMow; for, my
lord, Mr. Knox was not acquainted with them,
or had any thing to do with them, till that they
had ceutrived this matter among themselves : a
for, my lord, we shall call you witnesses to *
prove, that before Knox bad to do with them,
they would have had another person to prose*
cote this business for them. And if we satisfy
you that he was drawn inr I hope it will acquit
us; notwithstanding I will observe to your
lordship and the jury, whether Lane be guilty
or not guilty does not affect us, if we were
only drawn iqto the contrivance.
L. C. J. Wherever Lane's testimony standi
singly against Knox, it is no evidence.
Justice Jone*. But if he was not in the Plot
at the beginning, but wasllrawn in, and did
after proceed with them, as Dangerfield proves,
I doubt it will not acquit him.
Justice Pemberton. Consider a little your
case; • you say here was a contrivance of two,
that Knox was not in the beginning, but they
offered it to others with whom it would not
take. Why, let Knox come in when he will, if
he does come into the contrivance, and takes \
the papers, and manages the business to &l
these scandals, and encourage them to carry
them on, Knox is as guilty as ail toe rest.
Mr. Sounder*. But if these men come and teil
him these things are true, and we can sweat
them, and so is drawn in, it takes away the)
malice of the contrivance.
L. C. J. This is the use the defendant Knox
his counsel make of it : at first Knox was not
acquainted with the matter ; and when he did
come to understand it, he thought it to bo
true, as they affirmed it was true, and, said
they, we will go before a justice of peace and
swear it : he was willing, there being a disco-
very of several conspiracies against his lord's
life, as they said, he being his servant, he was
willing to prosecute the business ; and this is
the use they make of it.
Justice Pemberton. Come, let us hear yonr
witnesses. *
Mr. Scroggs. Call Frances Lane and Mary
Lane.
L. C. J. But I will tell you what ; it will
be necessary to clear yourselves, as well as you
can, of those papers that were delivered by
Knox to Dangerfield, and went about to the
lords in the Tower, and afterward to Nevil, wod
80*]
STATE TRIALS, SI Cham.es II. 1679.— far a Misdemeanor.
[SO*
by him amended, and after delivered to Knox
again by Dangerfield : This does shew as if you
were concerned in the whole affair, and in all
the matter of the information, before it was
cooked and after it was dressed. You must
give some account of that, for that sticks
strongly upon you.
Then Mrs. Franca Lane, and ber daughter
Mary Lane, were sworn.
Mr. Scraggy Mrs. Lane, are not you mother
to Lane the defendant ?
F. Lane. Yes. ,
Mr. Wit kins. Pray wiU you give an account
what vour son said to you in February last ?
Serjeant Maynard. We pray they may ask
their questions in general.
Justice Pemberton. Do not yon point her to
a time.
X. C. J. Answer me i what hath your son
•aid to you at any time concerning Oates>?
F. Lane. He spoke it about March.
L.C.J. What did be say ?
F. Lane, He used him uncivilly, he had no
mind to stay with him.
X. C. /. What said you ?
F. Lane. I desired him to stay longer.
L. C. J. How ofteo did he tell you this ?
F. Lane. Several times.
L. C+L He had left his service once, bad
be not ?
F.Lane. Yes.
X. C. J. Was it before *r after be left hh
service ?
F. Lane. Before and after too.
L.C. J. If he complained he had so used
him before, why would he go to him again ?
F. Lane. Because the times were hard, and
I persuaded him. .
X. C. J. Ay, bat would you persuade him
«fter such an abuse of vour son as that ?
F. Lane. I thought then he would not do so
again.
Justice Jones. When was the first time he
complained to you ?
F. Lane. It was about Christmas.
Justice Jones. Was it before Christmas ?
*• F. Lane. It was after.
Justice Pemberton. Consider here you bring
lime's mother to accuse him to excuse your-
•elf.
X. C. /. But is this material ?
Mr. Scroggs. It is material to our client Mr.
Knox, who was drawn in here by a couple .of
rascals. We prove, that before this time^wbicb
justice Warcup. and sir Wm. Waller have in
their informations, they offered the same dis-
covery to others.
X. C. J. Call them and prove it, but you
will never have the better name for calling
4hem ill ones.
Mr. Scroggt. We lav all upon Lane and
Osborne, who inveigled Knox.
Mr. Saunders. Pray, Mrs. Lane, tell the
conn and jury how and when your son came
acquainted with Mr. Knox.
F. Lane. May it please you, my lord, Os-
borne brings a paper te our )wuse, and would
,1
have had my son have read it, but he could
not,, so he read it himself; ana* there were'
some desperate things in it.
X. C. J. What were tbev ? '
F. Lane. I cannot tell, they were concerning
the king end the queen and my lord treasurer.
X. C. J. When was this ?
F. Lane. In March last, at our house, and I
desired them they would not meddle with such
things, for I said they were things beyond
them. My son promised me be would not
meddle with it, but let Osborne alone with it.;
but said I, pray go to one captain Thewer, he
is a good civil man, and a man of understand*
ing. Sq they did go as I directed them.
Justice Pemberton. Who went ?
F. Lane. Osborne did.
Justice Pemberton. Who went with biin?
for you say they.
F. Lane. John Lane, my son.
X. C. J. Was there any thing particular in
those papers concerning Mr. Oates being guilty
of sodomy ?
F. Lane. I cannot say in particular, it is a
great while ago, but be went to captain Thewer,
and he wished him, after he had read it, said
he, don't meddle with any of these things, for
it will be the worse for you.
X. C. J. As your son told you, you were noi
by.
F. Lane. Yes, they both told me so. With
that says Mr. Osborne, I'll find out one Mr.
Knox, who had been some acquaintance of
Mr. Wiggins, Mr. Bedlow's clerk ; and so, said
he, I will ask Mr. Wiggins if he be acquainted
with Mr. Knox.
X. C. J. Did your son at that time know
Knox?
F. Lane. No, my lord, he had never seen
him at that time ; so my son went, and they
found Mr. Wiggins and Mr. Knox walking in
the abbey.
L. C. J. Was Lane with him then ?
F. Lane. He went with Osborne, and came
and told me, Knox would not meddle with
them.
X. C. J. Who came and told you'sn ?
F. Lane. Osborne came and told me so, and
my son. }
X. C. J. You were not by f1
F. Lane. No, not I ; but, said he, as he told
me, I will £0 to him again ; and afterwards he
did meet him again, as he said, and delivered
them urhira.
Mr. Witkins. Did you ever see Knox k
your life ?
• F. Lane. I had never seen him then*
Mr. Wit hint. Did you ever hear your son
say, be did know Knox before that time ? ,
F. Lane Never in my life.
Justice Pemberton. But you de not prove
that they were not acquainted.
X. C. X Do you believe Osborne said true,
Mr. Saunders?
Mr. Saunders. Not when he spoke to sir
W. Waller to accuse my client of the .contriv-
ance.
307] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 161 P. —Trial of T. Knox and John Lane, [60S
X. C. J. In that case, when it is against your
elient he did not, bat in other cases he might ;
well, go on.
Mr. Withins. Which is Mary Lane f
Mary Lane. I am she. Sir, I can say no
more than my mother hath said, I was by at
t^ie same time.
Mr. Saunders. Do you know when John
Lane came acquainted with Knox ? was it be-
fore April last, or after ?
Justice Ptmberton. How is it possible that
any one can swear a negative ?
Mr. Saunders. If we can't prove the nega-
tive, nor they the affirmative, it will be pre-
sumed they were not, because it is not known.
Justice Pemberton. Nor do you prove any
Informations before given to any one.
Mr. Saunders. ' Yes, to Thewer.
Mr. Withins. We will ask the daughter about
that.
F. Lane. She can only prove it by hearing
it, for she was sick.
Mr. Withins. Young Mrs. Lane, what was
there in that paper that Osborne brought to
your house ?
M. Lane. There was concerning the king,
and the queen, and my Lord Treasurer.
X. C. J. Was there any thing in it concern-
ing Mr. Oates ?
M. Lane. Yes, there was, concerning his
beastliness.
Justice Pemberton. Who read it ?
M. Lane. Osborne I did hear read it.
Mr. Saunders. Your brother was not ac-
quainted with Knox then ?
Justice Pemberton, How can they tell that ?
it is impossible.
L. C. J. The nature of the thing is such,
that it can be proved no otherwise. But it
seemed to them that they were of no acquaint-
ance ; it is bard to prove when an acquaintance
begins.
Mr. Saunders. And further than this we
cannot go in such a case ; for that thing of the
great sums of money, certainly^it was as little a
thing as could be ; there was no more in the
case than a guinea, and ten shillings, and
three half crowns, as proved, and he was cheat-
ed of them, it seems, for they would not do the
work".
Mr. Scroggs. It is an improbable thing
that he should be so poor as to sell the handle
ef his sword, and yet be encaged in the ma-
nagement of such a plot, and not have money
ibr it.
L. C. J. There is no great store of money
appears to be given to Lane, but he was kept
upon a mean maintenance.
Justice Jones. But it was not without expec-
tation of a reward.
Justice Pemberton. He tells you the wages
was to be paid when the work was done.
L.C.J. And when the roguery was dis-
covered, they had no more money then.
Justice Pemberton. When the business came
to be controverted thus, they had no reason to
give it.
Mr. Saunders. Though Lane had mainten-
ance, yet our client Knox was not taken web
care of ; still there was provision made for him,
but none for us, because we were drawn in and
did not contrive it.
Jostice Pemberton. But remember, Mr.
Saunders, by the same hand there were 40s.
given at one time.
Mr. Withins. Well, my lord, we have done c
we say, that we had no part in the malice of
the contrivance, and therefore ought not to be
punished with them.
L. C. J. Well, Mr. Holt, what say yon for
Lane?
Mr. Holt. My lord, I am assigned of coun-
sel for the defendant Lane. I have no witnesses
at all to examine, but only shall make some
little observations upon the evidence that is
given for the king. As for the indictment it-
self, though it is not -several crimes, bat one)
complicated crime ; yet the evidence that is
given is only to one part thereof; and there-
fore I submit it to your lordship, if the proof
be proportionable to the cbarge, and whether
the defendant ought not to be found Not
Guilty. There hath been great mention made
of the writing letters, yet it would be hard
that the defendant should be found Guilty of
such an offence, when the proof does not
come up so high ; that would introduce a se-
verer punishment than the crime proved would
justify.
Justice Pemberton. Pray, Mr. Holt, don't
go away with that ; I must set you right a little
there : The crime that is laid is, To discoun-
tenance the king's evidence, and to make them
that they should not be believed. The means
are several, partly by casting of crimes upon
them, partly by writing letters ; that crime is
another thing, and therefore if they do not find
them Guilty of every one of the particular
means, yet the crime must be found.
L. C. J. You are in the right thus far, Mr.
Holt; they have laid the indictment, That
tbey endeavouring to disparage the credit of l
Oates and Bedlow, have, tor money's sake, and
by promises and contrivances, and writing uf
letters, wherein was scandalous matter egatrist
Oates and1 Bedlow ; they thereby did attempt
to discredit them. Now say you, if this matter
be not proved, that there was any scandalous
matter concerning Oates and Bedlow, then the
contrivance is not proved : but what though
all the facts in the indictment are not proved,
yet if there be enough to prove your contriv-
ance to discredit them ; and if you suppose
the evidence true that is given, it rests, I think,
plainly upon jour client, and you cannot get off
from it : but if there be not sufficient proof to
maintain the indictment for the crime of en-
deavouring to discredit Oates and Bedlow, un-
less they prove the letters also, yon say some*
thing ; but there is the business^ that socks on
you, they have proved enough without that.
Mr. Holt. If the jury do not find them Not
Guilty generally, may they not find them Not
Guilty of writing the letters r
609]
STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1079.— /or a Misdemeanor.
[610
L. C. J. No: For if the other pert of the
evidence did not amount to a proof of a design
of disparaging their testimony,, yon had a very
strong objection of it : but if they lay fire
things, and they prove but one of them upon
you ; if that one serves to the disparaging of
Oates and Bedlow, which is the substance of
the indictment, that maintains the indictment.
Mr. Holt. . It does so, my lord ; but not the
aggravations.
L. C.J. All that you say then is in mitiga-
tion of a fine ; but if all be. true that is proved
jupon your client, as I see no reason to doubt
it, you will save but little by this defence.
Mr. Holt. My .Lord, as to the matter, it all
depends upon the credit of the witnesses, and
credibility of the circumstance in themselves,
and' one with another. Some of the evidence
•is but very slight, and sure were but produced
to spend time.
-L. C. J. Indeed there was a great deal of it
to little purpose: for ought I see, this trial
needed not to have been above an hour.
Mr. Holt, As for his saying he should have
100/. a -year, and the bettering of his fortune,
it was but his vanity and extravagance.
L. C. J. Mr. Holt does argue as much for
Jii&qiient as the case will bear.
' Mr. Holt, They have endeavoured to lay all
jipon us ; now if so be we are affected with any
severe eyidence, I think the same evidence (to
requite them) does affect them.
L. C. J. This is a kind of battle-royal, where
every one hath two enemies to oppose.
Air. Holt. Here is Mr.- Dangerfield, he comes,
and in his evidence tells you, That my lady
Powjs was so long upon ber knees to thank God
that her party was so much strengthened by the
accession of Lane : My lord, I desire the quality
of Mr. Lane may be taken notice of; a foot-
nan and a young rash fellow, one that both for
age and quality could not be very considerable.
L. C. J. But two witnesses are better than
one, Mr. Holt; do you remember that ? Knox
used that expression, If Lane do but keep firm,
- we shall be too hard for Osborne alone, for two
• witnesses are better than.one ; but by that be
counted Lane worth something.
Mr. Holt. You must consider, what he was
to swear, they could scarce get an evidence so
proper for what they would Jiave him swear.
L. C J. Mr. Williams, wh^t answer can you
give to all the transactions thak Mr. Danger-
field tells you of about Knox? Besides, take
notice of this ; you would have this to be a
contrivance by Lane and Osborne, to he be-
tween themselves, and that your client must be
• stranger to it ; and when he comes to know it,
1 be knows it only as a remorse of conscience
that they tell him they have, and desire him to
go with them before a justice of peace to swear
it, and he hearing something that might affect
his master the earl of Dan by f and believing
that all was true, did encourage* that matter
only 'lor his master's service, and thought he
did a good act in it. But your subsequent be-
haviour sbevrs it was a conspiracy rattier ; for,
first, your secret ways of sending your canning
notes, * We all clubbed together, and you paid
2s. at the Sugar-loaf, tear this;' which shews,
and does to my apprehension signify, as if he
would never own that. he spent any thing upon
them \ and that he was bountiful to them. And
then the giving of money to the man to convey
notes, that they might not betray one another ;
do not all these subsequent actions, especially
those Dangerfield tells ybu of, and receiving the
papers after they were enlarged upon, speak it
a conspiracy ? What can you say to all this ?
Mr. Williams. My lord
Justice. Pemberton. Stay a little, and answer
all together. Do but consider with yourself;
those informations your client Mr. Knox did
own he took, and before they were sworn, and
carried them to my lord Latimer's lodging, and
he himself owns that he took lodgings for them,
and lay with them, and when the lords were in
pursiot of them.
L. C. J. And then does he steal them from
place to place, and takes lodgings for them, and
pays for them.
Justice Jones. He brings one of them to
make affidavit, and will keep it by him, is shy
of showing it; afterwards does show it, this
makes him a contriver too, as well as an exe-
cutor.
' Mr. Saunders. If yonr lordship please— —
Justiee Pemberton. Consider too the papers
that were put in too of caution, that Knox and
they should not be found. in several tales; for
Knox bad been examined before they were:
what was the meaning of those instructions?
L. C. J. If you have any witnesses to wipe
yourselves clean from the matter of receiving
the papers from Dangerfield, and taking lodg-
ings for them when they were nnder that ac-
cusation, do.
Mr. Saunders. I have a word to answer upon
the testimony of Mr. Dangerfield.
Justice Pemberton. Consider this, that he
attempted another man upon the. same ac-
count ; your client dfd tempt Wiggins to do the
same thing to his master. •
Mr. Saunders. That was in February before,
and all that he said was, that he would have
had out of Mr. Bedlow's servant, what company
his master kept, and what he did.
X. C. J. You do observe right. , ' -
Justice Pemberton. And to have betrayed
his papers to him. '
L. C. J. That does not reach this iridictment
indeed; but that thing that he would have
tempted him to, was to have discovered, and to
have a transcript of all the papers that con-
cernM^nj^lord of Danby; that he should
watch 1n*V company, and know what lords were
with him, that he /night make his opposition as
well as he could, and that lie should have what
place he did desire under my lord. It does not
affect the case of the indictment, but it shews
you are a tempter of men, and that yon are a
cautioner, that you would hire a man to betray
his master's papers, which is not fair, let the
master be who be will.
$11] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. JG60.— IWaf of Lionel Andersen, [S19
Justice Pembertons It facilitates tbc belief of
this.
L. C. J. Yes ; A)% ay, it is to make the jury
more apt to credit what the evidence of this
particular fact is.
Mr. Saunders. My lord, let me offer this
word, and I submit: Mr. Dangei field himself
does swear, chat Lane brought him a paper con-
taining the same matter that he did falsly ac-
cuse Mr. Oates of, and he read it over three
times to him, and then he swore it before sir
James Butler/ My lord, I will put my cause
upon that point. Whether Mr. Dangerneld did
not believe it to be true at that time..
Justice Jones; Your client is the more mis-
chievous man, to contrive it so, as to make the
thing to be believed when it was false.
L. C. J. The use of the argument he makes
is this ; that as Mr. Dangerfield might be de-
ceived into a belief that the information was
true, so might Mr. Knox as well when he saw one
ready to awear it : but hath Dangerfield done
those subsequent acts which lie hath*done
in the confederacy, for which he is now in-
dicted ?
Mr. Saunders, He swears in his information,
that they came to his hands from Lane and
Osborne.
L. C.-J. Well gentlemen, you of the king's
council and of the jury, you need not anv
summiog up of the evidence, I thkik the thing is
evident.
Justice Pemberion. Gentlemen, it is a very
clear case, as clear as the day ; I think you
need not go from the bar ; but do as you wiU.
f Then the Jury laying their heads together,
agreed without delay, and without moving from
the bar.]
CI. of Cr. Gentlemen, are you all agreed of
your verdict.
Omnet. Yes.
CI. of Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omnet. Foreman.
CI. of'Cr. How say you, are the defendants
guilty of the offence and misdemeanour whereof
they stand indicted, or Not Guilty ?
Foreman. Guilty. [At which the people
gave a great shout. J
Serjeant Maynard. !My Lord, I pray the
verdict may bje recorded.
Justice Jones. Let it be so. Come, where
are these two young fellows ? Let us see if they
can shew their faces now, [And they were
brought into the middle of the court.]
Knox. WiU your lordship give me leave to
speak one word for myself?
Justice Jones. No, no, there is no speaking
now ; take them into your custody, Marsha).—
Which was done, and the Court broke up.
They- were afterwards sentenced : Thtaaas
Knox to a fine of 200 marks, a year's imprison-
ment, and to find sureties for bis good behavi-
our for three years. John Lane to a fine
of 100 marks, to stand in the pillory for an
hour, and to be imprisoned for one year.
259. The Trials of Lionel Anderson alias Munson, William
Russel alias Nap per, Charles Parris alias Parrv, Henry
Starkey, James Corker, William Marshal, and Alex-
ander Lumsden,* with the Arraignment of David Joseph
Kemish, at the Old Bailey, for High Treason, being Romish
' Priests, 31 Charles II. a. d. 1680,|
ON Saturday the 17th of January, 1680 at the
Sessions-house in the Old-Bailey, by virtue of
his majesty's commission of Oyer aud Ternai-
— — ' ' — — — — — .^ — — — ^— ~— — «— ^— ■ • ■
* From a pamphlet entitled, " The Trials
and Condemnation of Lionel Anderson alias
Munson, William Russel alias Napper, Charles
Parris alias Parry, Henry Starkey, James Cor-
ker, and William Marshal, for High Treason,
as Romish Priests, upon the statute of 87 Eliz.
cap. 2. Together with the Trial of Alexander
Lumsden, a Scotchman, and the arraignment
of David Joseph Kemish for the same offence.
At the Sessions of Oyer and Terminer in the
Old Bailev, on Saturday January 17, 1679.
Published d? Authority. London : Printed for
Thomas Collins end John Starkey, Booksellers,
io Fleet-street, near Temple- bar, 1680."
f " The three lords, (Sunderland, Essex,
and Halifax) and I," says sir William Temple,
" thought of such acts of council as might ex-
press his majesty's care for suppressing Popery
ner and gaol-delivery of Newgate, for the coun-
ty of Middlesex and city of London, the per*
sons hereafter named were arraigned and triesL
■ii'" » ■ ■ I ■ ■!■■■■ ■ y ■ I ■
even in the intervals of parliament* We ooly
disagreed in one point, which was the leaving
some priests to the law upon the accusation of
being priests only, as the House of Commons
had desired, which I thought wholly unjust
without giving them public warning by procla-
mation to be gone, or expect the peaaltiee of
law within such a time ; since the connivances
bad lasted now through three kings reigns.
Upon this point, lord Hallifax and I had so
sharp a debate at lord Sunderland's lodgings,
that he told me if I would not concur in points
which were so necessary for the people's satis*
faction, he would tell every body I was a Pa-
pist. And upon his affirming that the Plo
must be handled, as if it were true, whether .
were so or not, in those points that were s\4
generally believed by city or country, as weJp
813] STATE TRIALS, si .Charles II. l6Sti.—andoi!xrs,f6r High Treason. [814
CL efCr. Keeper, set David Joseph Kemish
to the bar. [Which was done] David Joseph
Kemish, hold up^thy hand. [Which tie did.]
And after the asual proclamation for atten-
dance was made, the court proceeded ia this
manner ;
as both Houses: I replied with some heat that
the Plot was a matter long on foot before I
came over into England ; that to understand
it one mast have been here to observe all the
matrons of it ; which not having done, I Mould
have nothing to do with it/' Memoirs, Part 3.
See sir W. Temple's Works, vol. 1, p, 339, fol.
edit. of 1740.
The desire of the House of Commons re-
ferred to in this passage was expressed in an
Address which was voted on the 16 ih of Nov.
1678, which will he found below.
So early as the year 1675, the Popish Priests
resident in England had reason to apprehend
that the 27th of Elix. would be enforced against
them. It appears by the Journal of the House
ef Commons, that
* November 8, 1675.
u Information being given to the House, of
a very high insolence and violence committed
upon M. de Luzancy, a convert of the Pro-
testant religion, by one St, German, a Jesuit,
and others, his confederates ; and a Narrative
in writing being tendered,, and read, giving a
particular account of the whole matter :
" Resolved, &c. That a Committee be ap-
pointed to take the said Narrative, now read,
into consideration, and to examine the mat-
ter and report it, with their opinions, to the
House : and also to consider or such wajs and
means as they shall find necessary for securing
and encouraging of col verts to the Protectant
religion, and to bring in a bill to that purpose ;
and also to esamine, what Priests or Jesuits
have been of late years committed or con-
victed ; and by what warrants, and by whom
procured, they have been released, reprieved,
or pardoned ; and to report the whole matter
to the House, with their opinions therein : and
it is referred to lord Cavendish, and 39 other
members, or any five of them ; ond they are to
meet this afternoon, at three o'clock, in the
Speaker's chamber ; and to send for persons,
papers, and records.
M Resolved, &c. That the Lord Chief Justice
of England be desired forthwith to issue his
warrant for the apprehending St. German, the
Jesuit, and his confederates; and for searching
for, and apprehending, all priests and Jesuits
whatsoever."
" On March 27, 1678, the House of Com-
mons-being informed, That mass ia publicly
said in several places within the county of
Monmouth ; and that there is one Mr. Arnold
at the door, ready to make the same out. A
Paper, containing an information of several
Popish Priests and Jesuits, and the .persons
that do countenance and support them, was
delivered in to Mr. Speaker. Mr. Arnold was
called in to the bar of the House; and asked
divers questions by Mr. Speaker, touching the
matters couteitied in the Paper delivered in to
Mr. Speaker ; and also touching several other
things ; and having given his answer, and be-
ing withdrawn, one captain Scudainore was
called in to the bar ; and asked several ques-
tions, by Mr. Speaker, concerning one Elliot, a
popibh priest, ionnerly committed to gaol by
the said captain Scudamore. And he having
given his answer, and being withdrawn,
" Ordered, That the Thanks of this House
be given to Mr. Arnold and Mr. Scudainore,
for i heir informations this day given to the
House of the growth of popery.
" And Mr. Arnold and Mr. Scudamore be-
ing called in to the bar of the House, Mr.
Speaker did, in a short and eloquent speech,
give them the thanks of the House accordingly.
" And it was Resolved, That a Conference
be desired with the Lords, concerning the
danger the nation is iu by the growth of po-
pery, and for providing remedies tp prevent
the same.
" An Address of the 20tb of February, 1670,
touching the growth of Popery, with heads and
reasons thereto, was read. Resolved, &c. That
it be referred to a Committee to consider of
the said Address and Heads;. and thereout,
and upon the debates of the House, to prepare
and draw up Reasons to be offered at the said
Conference."
" On the 29th of April following, the Hoose
proceeded to, the consideration of a report made
by sir John Trevor : which was read by the
clerk, and is as followeth : v
" The first Head ;
" The Names of Popish Priests; by whom
kept ; the Chapels, and other places where
mass is said, and resorted- tp, in the county
of Monmouth.
" 1. John Arnold^ of Llanvihangell, in the
county of Monmouth, esq. late a justice of the
peace there, by his examination saith, that he
hath known Mr. David Lewis* for seven or eight
years; who hath been for all that time, and
before, reputed a Jesuit, and Provincial of the
Jesuits, in the county of Monmouth :Tbat for se-
veral years past, he lived * Dan tarn am house,
then in jointure to the lady Morgan ; which by
her death, about two years since, came to sir
Edward Morgan ; where the said David Lewis
publicly said mass, as he hath been credibly
informed by persons that were present thereat.
He likewise says, That he hath seen the chapel,
altar, and Ornaments in the said house, for the
celebration of mass: That the said David Lewis
lives now near Llantarnam aforesaid; and dotrT
also, as he bath been informed, say mass at a
popish chapel, near Mr. G outer's bouse ia
Afoergaveny town.
" S. Charles Morgao, gentleman, by his ex-
amination upon oath, saith, That David Lewis,
* See his Cast, tuprt, p, 950.
815] . STAfE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 168(7.— Trial qf temft Andctsfiri, $!&
of our sovereign lord the king, and being ar
priest, made and ordained b? authority derived
from the see of Rome, after the feast of the Na-
tivity of St. John Baptist, in the first year of
ries and christens in the said parish ; and has
endeavoured to pervert several of the parish to
the popish religion.
" 10. Mr. Samuel Wntkins,yicar of Lantilio-
Gresseny and Penrose, in the county of Mon-
mouth, upon his oath, says, That Mr. Walter .
Harries alias Price, and another Mr. Harries^
say mass at William Pullen's house; and like-
wise do often christen.
" 1.1. Mr. Aron Lewis, of Landigua, in the
county of Monmouth, upon his oath, says, That
several persons have informed him, that Walter
Harries alias Price, is a popish priest, and had
christened several of their children ; and that
the said Price said mass publicly ; and that he
lives in the house of Mrs. Catherine and.
Christian Milbourne.
" 13. Alice, the wife of the said Mr. An*
Lewis, upon her oath, saith, That she knoweth
the said Mr. Walter Price to be a popish priest:
Hath seen and beard him say mass 40 times ;
hath received the sacrament from him ; hath
seen him administer it to a hundred more ; bath
seen him often marry and christen ; hath per-
verted several Protestants from the Chureh of
England to the Church of Rome; as James
Prichard and Catherine bis wife, Charles Wat-
kins and Margaret his wife, and the wife of
William Arthur, and several others. — She fur-
ther saith, that she bath seen above 100 at
mass at one time, at Mrs. Christian Milborne'a
house ; and that the crowd was so great, that
the. loft was forced to be propped, lest it should
fall down under the weight: That she hata
confessed her sins to the said Price; and that
be gave her absolution.
" IS. William Lewis, of Raglaod, in the
county of Monmouth, upon his oath, saith,
That he hath seen Mr. Price, who doth, or
lately did live at the house of Mrs. Milborne,
say mass, and preach in Welch : That the said
Price did earnestly endeavour to turn him from
the Church of England to the Church of Rome ;
telling him, that he should never see the face
of God, unless he would be of ttyeir way.
" 14. Mr/ Roger Seys, upon his oath, saith,
That the said Walter Harry, alias Price, is a
popish priest : And that he was present wbeo.
it was proved before a justice of the peace,
that the said Price had said mass.
" 15. William James, upon his eath, saith,
That he knoweth Walter Harries, alias Price,
a popish priest ; and hath seen him at mass ;
hath heard him say mass : And that he is en-
tertained at Mrs. Mil bo roe's house in CJitha.
" 16. Mr. Arnold says, That he hath been
very credibly informed, that one Dr. Pugh says
mass publidy in the bouse of Mr. Thomas
Rodnam of Blackebrook, both when Mr. Rod*
nam is at home, aud when he is abseut : That
he hath been informed, that Walter James,
esq. buffers one John Lloyd, a reputed prate.
Thou standest indicted by the name of David
Joseph Kefnish, of the parish of St. Giles'? in
the fields, in the county of l&ddlesex, clerk;
for that thou being born within the dominions
a popish reputed priest, doth often frequent the
house of one Mr. Thomas Gunter, of Aber-
gaveny.
" 3. William James, by his examination upon
oath, saith, That he hath 'known David Lewis
to be a popish priett this 16 years ; and believes
him to be the superior of all the Jesuits in
North and South Wales : he and his wife have
received the Sacrament of him ; hath seen him
administer it to above 100 persons; hath seen
him christen several children, and marry se-
veral persons at a chapel in Llantarnam house,
and at the houses of Andrew and Edward Wil-
liam: That a great number resort to Llaotar-
riam to hear mass. Deposeth further, That
he hath given several angels to the said David
Lewis, to pray for the soul of his father-in-law,
after he was dead : aud that his father-in-law
told him and his wife, that be was fain to give
50/. to the said David Lewis, to be disposed to
pious uses ; and that if he did not give it, he
should neither have the sacrament, nor abso-
lution. And he further saith, That he knoweth
Wm. Cornelius, who hath officiated as clerk at
mass to the said David Lewis, this 15 or 16
years : and that the said Wm. Cornelius was
both a constable and churchwarden for the
parish of Langatuck.
° 4. Dorothy, the wife of Wm. -James, de-
poseth, That the hath known David Lewis to
be a popish priest these 20 years ; hath seen
him say mass at Llantarnan, and elsewhere ;
she and her husband having received the sacra-
ment from him ; and hath seen him administer
it to several persons; and marry and christen
several times : she knoweth, that one William
■Cornelius hath officiated as clerk to the said
David Lewis, for 16 years past, and above.
" 3. Mr. Arnold says, That he hath known
captain Syliard four or five years : that he hath
been informed by the minister of Lanarth, and
others, That he is a Romish priest, and doth
openly say mass in that parish ; to which great
numbers do resort: that most of the parish
are papists.
" 6. Thomas Watkins, vicar of Lanarth,
upon his oath, deposeth, That one Syliard, a
reputed popish priest, resides in the said parish.
" 7. Mr. Charles Morgan, upon his oath,
saith, That the said Mr. Syliard, a reputed
popish priest, lives with Mrs. Jones, of La-
narth, widow.
M 8. Mr, Arnold says, That Mr. Harris alias
Price, is reputed to be a popish priest.
" 9. Thomas Watkins, of Lanarth, upon bis
oath, deposeth, That Walter Harry alias Price,
» a reputed popish priest ; resideth in Clitha,
a hamlet in Lanarth, iu the house of Mrs.
Christian Mitburne : That there are above 80
reputed popish recusants, besides children and
servants, in that parish: That he hath been
mforracd, that the said 'Price says mass, mar-
817] STATE TRIAU3, 31 Charles H. mo.— and <*hen,for High Trtasm. [819
t^e reign of Queen Elizabeth, and before the
15th of November, «n the SOth year of the reign
of our sovereign lord the king that now is, The
laws and statutes of this kingdom of England
to say mass in his house at Treivor : That he
hath seen a chapel at Llanvaire in the house of
Turbervill Morgan esq. ; and an altar and or-
naments in it : And he bath been informed,
that Thomas Lloyd, a popish priest, saith pub-
lic mass, marries, christens, and buries in the
said chapel. <
41 17. Mr. Samuel Watkins, vicar of Dan-
tilio-Gresseny, Penrose, upon his oath, saith,
That Mr. Lloyd, a reputed popish priest, says
mass at the house of Turbervili Morgan, esq.,
in bis parish : That there are three other
bouses in his parish, where reputed popish
priests are entertained, and say public mass :
And that there are in the parishes of Llantillio-
Greasing, and Penrose, sixscore popish recu-
sants.
" 18. Mr. Arnold says, That be hath been
informed by the minister and several witnesses
that Mrs. Scudamore of Penrose, widow, suffers
public mass to be said in hex house ; and that
great numbers resort thither.
" 19. Mr. Samuel Watkins, vicar of Penrose,
upon his oath, saith, That one Mr. Lloyd, a re-
puted popish priest, is entertained at the house
of one Mrs. Winifred Scudamore : And that he
hath seen him there, and a great number of
popish recusants resorting thither upon Sun-
days and holidays, to hear mass, as he con-
ceiveth ; and he verily believes, all her children
were christened by popish priests.
" 20. Mr. Arnold says, That he hath seen a
public chapel near the house of Mr. Thomas
Gunter, a papist convict in Abergaveny,
adorned with the marks of the Jesuits on the
outside : and is informed, that mass is said
there by captain Evans, a reputed Jesuit, and
by the. aforesaid David Lewis ; that very great
numbers resort to the said chapel, and very
often at church time : And he hath credibly
heard, that 100 have* gone out of the said
chapel, when not 40 haw gone out of the
great church : And that the said chapel is
situate in a public street of the said town ; and
doth front the laid street.
44 81. Mr. Greenhaugh, vicar of Abergaveny,
and LantOio Bartholy in the county of Mon-
mouth, upon his oath, saith, That on Sundays
and holidays he hath seen great, number of
Eomati catholics resort to the house of Tho-
mas Gunter at Abergaveny : And that the said
Gunter entertains one capt. Evans, whom he sup-
posed! to be a popish priest : That there is the
public marks of the Jesuits on the outside of
Use building; which is directly towards the
parish church; and he is informed is their
chapel : And that they have in that house all
the formalities and ornaments unto a chapel be-
longing ; with mass on Sundays, and other holi-
days. He deposeth, that there have been many
marriages and christenings in both the said
parishes, by popish priests : And further, that the
not regarding nor the penalties in the same
contained any ways fearing, the said 15tbday
of November, in .the 30th year of the king
aforesaid at the parish of St. Giles's in the
said Thomas Gunter told him that in Oliver's
time, of severity he kept a priest, and would keep
one now : That many times corps came to be in*
t erred, with the formalities of white crosses
upon them ; and, endeavouring to hinder the
said superstition, he hath been often abused :
That be hath informed John Arnold, esq., and
other justices of the peace, of public mass
said there ; and other enormities of the papists.
" 22. William James aforesaid, upon bis
oath, deposeth, that he knoweth Philip Evansft
commonly called captain Evans, a popish,
priest, entertained by Mr. Thomas Gunter, at
his house in Abergaveny..
• " 23. Mr. Arnold says, That the persona
who commonly go under the names hereafter
mentioned, do often change their names, and
are called by ofijier names ; and are reputed to
be itinerant priests in the counties of Here-
ford and Monmouth ; and do usually officiate
in ten miles compass ; viz. Mr. Dravcott, Mr.
Elliot, captain Pugh, Dr. Pugh, Mr. Ryder, Mr.
Morgan, Mr. Lloyd, Mr. Williams, Mr. Parry,
Mr. Jones, Mr. Harries who is said to be su-
perintendent of the Combe, Mr. John HaU, Mr.
Thomas Powell, Mr. Harries, alias Price, Mr.
Thomas Andrews. .
" 24. Tho. Watkins, vicar of Llanartli, upon
his oath, deposeth, That Thomas Andrews a re-
puted popish priest, says mass very often at
William Davie's boose of Bettos, as he hath
been informed.
" 25. Mr. Sam. Watkins, vicar of Lantilto-
Gresseny, upon his oath deposeth, That Mr.
Thomas Andrews, a reputed popish priest, is
entertained at Mr. Anthony Powell's at KiL
lougli ; where he hath, seen him : And that he
says public mass there : And that Mr. Hall a
reputed popish priest, is entertained at Mr*
James Pnchard*s house of Blean Uyman, where
mass is publicly said : And be hath been inform-
ed, that another reputed popish priest, called
Mr. Laurence Watkins, frequents the bouse of
Mr. Walter Powell.
" 26. Mr. Roger Seys, upon his oath, de-
poseth, That he heard it proved before several
justices ot% the peace of the county of Mon-
mouth, that Mr. Lawrence Watkins was a
popish priest, and did officiate at the house ef
Mr. Charles Scudamore, deceased : And fur-
ther deposeth, That Thomas Powell, a reputed
popish priest, liveth at the house of the lad j
Jones of Treowen, which is distant about a
quarter of a mile from tbe parish church of
Dingeston ; to which church, as he is informed
there do not resort above sixteen or twenty '
persons, or thereabouts ; when there do resort
to the house of ,the *«id lady Jones threescore .
or thereabouts ; all which do pass and repas*
through the said church yard of Dingeatow, at
the time of divine service. •
" 27. Mr. Cbarlea Morgan, upon bit oatb,
3 G
919] STATE TRIALS, 51 Chartrs II; mo.—lYial qf Lionel Andertm,
fields, in the county of Middlesex aforesaid,
traitorously, and as a false traitor of oar so*
▼ereign lord the king, thou wast and didst re-
main and abide, against the form of the statute-
in this case made and provided, and against the
peace of oor sovereign lord the king, tats crown
deposeth, That Mr. Williams, « reputed popish
priest, frecruenteth a house called Lantrotby.
" 28. Mr. Arnold says, That he hath seen
hundreds of papists- meet on a high hill, called
St. Michael's Mount, where is frequent meet-
ings, eight or ten times in the year, as he is in-
formed, ,Mass said, and- sometimes sermons
preached there.
44 29. John Scudaiaore, of Kentchoreh in "
the county of Hereford, esquire, saith, That he
hath seen very great numbers of people at their
devotion, on the top of a high hill in Mon-
mouthshire, called St. Michael's Mount, where
there is a ruinous chapel, and a stone with
crosses upon it, which he took to be an alter :
And he* hath seen people with beads m their
hands, kneeling, toward the said stone, both
within and without the said chapel : And he
hath seen them there several times himself. And
he hath been informed they do constantly assem*
tie there nt set-era! times of the year -.And he
hath been informed, that masi is often said
'there; And some papists have affirmed* in his
presence, that they have heard as good ser-
mons preached there, as ever they heard in
their lives.
. " 30. Mr. Arnold saith, Chat he knoweth,
that Combe- house in Herefordshire, and several
lands belonging to it, of a considerable value,
is commonly reputed to be a convent of Jesuits :
And he bath heard some of the papists them-
selves call it the college of the Combe : And
he hath been informed, that there are com-
monly five or six Jesuits residing there : An<f
there is a public chapel ; and mass constantly
said therein.
"31. Mr. Scudaraore says, That at a house
called the Combe, in the county of Hereford,
several priests are maintained and kept there :
And that it is commonly reported, that il is a
house or tollege for that purpose.
" 92. Wm. James of Langatock, in the
county of Monmouth, upon his, oath deposeth,
That he heard several of the popish priests say,
That, if they could not live in those parts, they
would repair to the Combe in Herefordshire :
And believes the said Combe to be a convent ;
and that the lands thereunto belonging belongs to
the priests ; and that they do keep, or lately
did keep husbandry there.
" 33. Mr. Charles Morgan, upon his oath,
deposeth, That Combe house in the county of
Hereford, near the dwelling house of Harry Mfl-
burne, esq. a justice of the peace, is reputed to
be a popish convent, where several popfoh re-
Suted priests did lately inhabit ; vis. Mr. James,
Ir. Humfreys, Mr. Dravcott, and Mr. Harries.
" Three worthy members of this house living
in and near Herefordshire, informed the com-
mittee, That Combo hotot aforesaid, and the
and dignity.- How sayest thou, David Joseph
Kemish, Art thou Guilty of this High-Treason
whereof thon standest indicted, or Not Guilty ?
Kemith. Not Guilty.
€1. of Cr. Culprit, how wHt thou be tried ?
Kemish. By God and my country.
lands thereunto belonging, is commonly reputed
to belong to the popish priests.
* The Second Head.
u The Names of tne Justices of Peace and
others, that are Papists or suspected Pa-
pists ; and their proceedings in favour of
Popish Priests and Popish Recusants.
" 1. Mr. Arnold saith, That he knoweth sir
Edward Morgan, of Llantanian in the comity
of Monmouth, baronet ; that he hath seen in
his house of Llantanian a popish chapel, with
altar and ornaments therein for the celebration
of mass ; wherein mass is said, as he hath* been
informed by such as have been present thereat:
That he hath heard the said sir Edward Morgan
affirm himself ro be a Roman Catholic : That
he is yet continued in the commission of peace,
and is reputed to be » deputy lieutenant.
" 2. Mr. Arnold says, That, about ten years
since, he knew William Jones, of Llanarth,
esq. ; that he was a justice of the peace, ana
deputy lieutenant of Monmouthshire; hsth
been informed by a worthy member of this
house, that before and at the time of his death
he was a papist: He hath heard some papists
brag, that he died a papist; and that his son is
now bred in a college of Jesuits in France, or
dsewhere in foreign parts : He says, That he
hath been informed,, by the minister and others,
that most of that parish are papists: He says,
That though several warrants have issued from
the justices, to have accounts of defaults for net
coming to church ; no returnis couro be had for
these two Tears last past, tins ctarchwardefts
and constables being papists.
" 3. Mr. Thomas Watkins, vicof of the
parish of Llanarth, upon his oath, says, That
there are above fourscore reputed popish re*
eusants withm this parish, besides children and
servants ; three reputed popish priests residing
and officiating there, to wit, one Syliard, who
was late! y tutor to Mr. Jones's two sons, who
are now beyond seas, as be verily believes , one
Waiter Harries, residing at Mrs. MilborneS
house at Clitba, a hamlet of Llanarth; and
one Andrews, at Bettos.
" 4. Mr. Charles Morgan, upon his oath, de-
poseth, That Mr. Syliard, a reputed popish
priest, lives with Mrs. Jones of Llanarth,
widow to Mr. William Jones of Llanarth, who
was a justice of peace.1
" $. Mr. John Greenhangh, vicar of Aber-
gaveny and Llantilio-Bartholy in thecoonryof
Monmouth, upon his oath, deposeth, That
there is, or hath of late been, one Mr. £vans, a
reputed popish priest, entertained at the lioojj
of Charles Proger, esq., in the said parish of
Dan Alio, who is a justice of pence; To* the
«I] STATE VB0A1S, tl C**ju«s H. lti«V~*»d other*, Jbr High Tnasm. ?SK
JEesttsn. I am net able to speak in my own
defence, aud I have had no tine to prepare
mysel£
X. p. /. Captain, he shall speak softl y to
you, and you shall report it to the court again*
Captain Richardson. You nay speak softly
to me, and I will give an account what you say.
X. C. J. How will he be tried ? ask him.
CLofCr. God send thee a good deliverance.
Ktmuh. I cannot speak, I am not able to
stand upon my legs a Quarter of an hour.
X. C. X (Sir William Scroggs) What does
he say ?
Captain Richardson. He says he is so ill and
weak be is not able to stand. -
JL C. X Then he must have a stool.
hath seen great numbers of men and women
resort thither to mass, as he conceives.
" Q. Mr. Arnold says, That be hath been in-
formed, that Mass was very lately and publicly
eaid at Llantrothy, a house belonging to Row-
land Prichard, esq., now a justice of peace of
Monmouthshire ; where one Thomas Elliot a
popish priest, formerly committed to Hereford
gaol as such, dotb officiate t That he informed
the said Mr. Prichard of it ; and that it was
dangerous to him, and scandalous to religion,
for him to suffer it \ The said Mr. Prichard an-
swered, That be had ten pounds rent extraor-
dinary for it ; and that would do him more
Soad than the scandal could hurt htm : That
4r» Prichard is nephew to Mr. Harry Mil-
boroe.
" 7. Mr. Charles Morgan, upon his .oath, de-
posetb, That be hath credibly beard, that Row-
land Prichard, esq. hath ten pounds per annum
more, for his boose at Lantrothy, for suffering
one Mr. Williams, a reputed popish , priest, to
lie there sometimes.
" a. Mr. Arnold says. That he knows Harry
If ilborne, esq. to be a justice of peace in four
counties, whereof Monmouthshire is one : and
that he the said M ilborne, ever since be came
into the commission . of the peace for Mon-
mouthshire, hath kept papists for his clerks, '
who received and kept all presentments 5 One
af them called Bowyer, was indicted for trea-
sonable words at Hereford assizes, of which
the Herefordshire members can give a more
perfect account ; the other named Peter Ro-
berts, a papist convict : the said Mr. Arnold
says, and Henry Probart, esq. upon bis oath,
deposetb, that they both as justices of the
peace of the county of Monmouth, on the 17th
day of April, 1677, did often tender the oaths
•of allegiance aud supremacy to tbe said Peter
Roberts ; which the eaid Roberts, with con-
tempt, did refuse to take : that ibey both re-
quired the said Mr. Milborne, being then pre-
sent, to join with them in the tender of the said
oath, and in committing the eaid Roberts :
which he refused : whereupou the said Mr. Ar-
nold and Mr. Probert did by warrant and mit-
timus, commit the said Roberts to one Hugh
Powell, ooe of the chief constables for the-hun-
dred of Skenfrith.; *© convey him to bis ma-
jesty's gaol : whereupon tbe said Harry Mik
bourne did lay violent hands upon the chief
constable, and pushed him away, whilst the
eaid Roberta made his escape ; and -bid the
eaid Roberts begone : which he did accord-
ingly ; and though he was pursued, yet did es-
cape,
f The said Mr, Arnold further says, That
be had often heard the said Mr. Miibourne, at
privy sessions, both discourage constables from
presenting of popish recusams, and also de-
clare, that it was contrary to law to present
them at a privy sessions : And that the law ef
1 Eliz. was not intended against papists. Ha
also knowetb, rhattbe-said Mr. Milborne, as
the end of last Easter or Midsummer sessions
did procure an order, that neither tbe said
Henry Probart, nor himself, should act as jus*
tices in the hundred of Skenfrith, though no
justice lived io the said hundred, and they live
both near to it : and that tike said Mr. MiU
bourne obtained another order of the quarter
sessions, to vacate that they had done at a
privy sessions, where they had convicted above
200 papists ; the copies of which orders were '
dented him by the c4erk of the peace and hie
clerks : aud he verily believes, that the reason
of making both their orders was, because tbe
said Mr. Prbbert and himself, did their duty
faithfully, aud did put tbe laws in execution
against the papists.
" 0. Mr. Arnold says, That he knowetb, and
Mr. Charles Morgan by his oath deposetb, that
most of the said Harry Mil bourne's family and
houshold, are papists.
" 10. Aud Mr. Arnold says, That be wat
present When one Mr. Roger Seys did demand
of Mr. Miibourne, a warrant to apprehend one
Walter Price, whom the said Mir. Seys offered
to prove to be a popish priest, kept in the
house o£ Mrs. Catherine and Mrs. Chrittiaa
Milborne, sisters to the eaid Mr. Milburoe *
which the said Mr. Milburne not only refused
to grant, but threatened the said Mr. Seys for
demanding the same. And lastly he saitb, that
he hath been credibly intonucd, that Mr. Mn-
burne is a trustee of many of the papists in,
Hereford and Monmouthshires.
" 11. Heury Probart, esq. upon his oath
sakh, That Mr. Arnold with himself and others,
kept a privy sessions in Llantillio-Gresseny hi
the county of Mbninouth, where the constables '
presented a great number of popish recusants;
but at the next quarter sessions there was an
order made, vacating all that was done at the
said privy sessions ; though very Jittle or no*
thing was done there, but about the present*
ment of papists : and further, That he doth in
his conscience believe, that the eaid Mr. Mil-
burne was the main agent and instrument of
making and obtaining the eaid order.
/ " 1*. John Souriaiuore, esq. justice of the
peace ot Herefordshire, *ays> That having da-
sired one Mr. Harry Milburne, a justice of
peace lor that county, to join with him in issu-
ing out warrants to levy 13d.a Sunday od l
Sfg] STATE TR1AL3, 3 1 Charles II. 1680.— Trw/
Andermm, . (824
JLemkh. I would desire my trial might be de-
ferred till I be in a condition to answer for
myself.
L. C. J. What say you, brothers, I thjnk his
request is very reasonable ; he -appears not to
recusants, he always refuseth so to do ; affirm-
ing that the statute of 1 Eliz. wa9 never intended
against papists. — That he hath been credibly
informed, That the greatest part of the family
and houshold of the said Mr. Milburne, and
great part of the parish within he lives, are
papists : That he hath known two of Mr. Mil-
burne's clerks, who received and kept all re-
turns and presentments, and were both de-
clared papists, the name of one being John
Bowyer, who was tried at Hereford for trea-
sonable words ; the name of the other Peter
Roberts, who is or was lately his clerk.
" 13. Mr. Roger Seys and Mr. Lewis Price,
'upon their oaths severally depose, That they
«rere present when John Arnold and Henry
Probart,esqrs%did commit Peter Roberts, clerk
Co Mr. Milburne, for refusing to take the oaths
of supremacy and allegiance : and that the said
Mr. Milburne rescued the said Roberts out of
the hands of the chief constable, who thereupon
made his escape.
" The^aid Mr. Scys farther deposetb, That
be, being churchwarden, did on the 17th day
of April, 1677, demand a warrant from Mr.
Milburne against Walter Harryes alias Price,
4 popish, priest, who liveth with Mrs. Christian
and Catherine Milburne, sisters to the said
Milburne : which warrant Mr. Milburne re-
fused to grant, but threatened him with oppro-
brious words, telling him, that he was a busy
troublesome man, and that he would be upon
bis skirts.
*" 14. Lambert Miles, upon his oath, saitb,
That about the year 1675 or 1676, being petty
constable of Llantillio-Gresseny, he went to
Mr. Milburne, a justice of neace, with his
©resentment to be approved ot and subscribed
ly the said Mr. Milburne; wherein several
Pppish recusants were presented for not com-
ing to church : That the said Mr. Milburne
•truck out, or caused to be struck out, several
of their names; and the oath, that it was a
true presentment, was omitted; he the said
Miles refusing to take it, unless the names of
the said popish recusants, struck out, as afore-
Mid, by Mr. Milburne, or his order, were in-
serted therein : That thereupon the said Lam-
bert Miles never presented those struck out
any more, nor swore to any presentment
after, though be continued petty constable
two years. .
" 1A. Mr. Arnold with, That he hath had
it proved by oath before bim, That Mr. Isaac
'Williams, who is coroner for part of the county
of MonmQuth, hath his childreu chtistened by a
popish priest : And that his wife is a violent
papitt; And hath heard credibly, that mass it
wry often said in his house; and that very
frequent meetings of Romish priests, and others
•f thu religion, are held there.
be in a condition of taking hit trial now, and
Mr. Attorney is willing he should be set aside
till next sessions.
<Att. Gen. (Sir Creswel Levinz.) It is, 1
think, very fit, if your lordships pie ase.
" 16. Mr. Roger Seys, upon his oath, depo-
setb, That, he being churchwarden, Isaac
Williams, one of the coroners of the county of
Monmouth, did check him for putting the sta-
tute in execution against popish recusants
for not coming to church ; and told him, that
it was pity to prosecute them, for they were
honest people u And, by way of discourse, did
hold many arguments with him, in vindication
of the Romish religion.
" 17. Mr. John Greenhaugh, vicar of Aber-
gaveny, upon his oath, saith, That Mary the
wife of Mr. Lewis Jones, was the only person
in that town severely prosecuted for a Roman
catholic, though there were many convict
papists of greater ability in the town : And that
it was done after her conformity and reconci-
liation to the church of England : And that
her husband told him, that he bad paid to the
under-sheriff nine pounds ten shillings, notwith-
standing his certificate, under His hand and
seal, of her conformity.
" 13. Mr. Scudamore says, That about fa*
years since, he apprehended one Mr. Elliott, a
popish priest, habited in his cope and other
vests, in the act of the celebration of mass ia a
chapel in Herefordshire ; wherein be observed an
altar, lighted tapers, and several images : He
asked the said Elliott, how he durst say maw
so publicly, there being at mass above thirty
persons, being there was a proclamation to the
cootrary : Mr. Elliott answered, Tbat he knew
of no proclamation; but demanded by what
authority he took him, telling him tbat be
should have no thanks* for apprehending him.
•Mr. Scudamore saith, That he thereupon com-
mitted Elliott to .the county gaol; aud the next
assizes caused a bill to be presented against
him, which was. found: But before his trial he
was taken out of the gaol, and, as the under
sheriff informed him, he was moved to the
Tower of London.
" 19. It appeareth to the committee by the
original records and papers produced before
them,. That the, said John Scudamore did by
his mittimus, dated the 17th of September
1671, commit the said Elliott, as a popish
priest, to the county-gaol of Hereford, until be
should be thence delivered by due course of
law : That by warrant counter-signed by Mr.
secretary Trevor, dated the 84th of January
following, directed to Marshal firiggs, esq. high-
sheriff of the county of Hereford, the said
Elliot was brought up. to London ; in order to
his delivery over to the lieutenant of the Tower:
That, by wairaat counter-signed by Mr. secre-
tary Trevor, dated the lath of February follow*
ing, directed to the lieutenant of the Tower,
the said Elliott was committed to the Tower
until further order : And accordingly the aaid
Mr, Elliott was deiivercd by the hJgb-ftfaeriff of
825} STATE TRULS, 31 Charles II. 1680 and others, for High Treason. [Sffr
Justice Doiben. He most plead first. . Have
you recorded bis plea ?
CLaf'Cr. Yes, it is recorded.
L.C.J. Why then look yon, Capt. Richard-
son, you most take him back ; the court does
Hereford into the lieutenant of the Tower's
custody. That, by warrant, counter-signed
by Mr. secretary Trevor, dated the 4ih of
Marin following, the lieutenant of the Tower
was commanded to enlarge and set at liberty
the said William Elliott, first taking security
from him to transport himself out of the realm
into some parts beyond seas, within, ten days
next after such enlargement ; and not to return
into any of bis majesty's dominions, without
leave first obtained : That accordingly the said
lieutenant took a bond, in his majesty's name,
from tbe said Elliott, with two sureties in the
sum of five hundred pounds; and thereupon
set the said Elliott at liberty : That at the next
assizes' and general gaol delivery for the county
of Hereford, the 24tb of March followipg, the
said William Elliott was indicted for being a
seminary-priest; which indictment was found
by the grand jury; and to which indictment
John Marriott, John Cole, and Arthur Lister,
were witnesses: who by their informations,
taken upon oath, and produced to the com-
mittee by tbe clerk of assize, do severally de-
pose, the apprehending of the said Elliott in
the act'Of celebration of mass, as Mr. Scuda-
more bath set forth in his examination afore-
said.—The said Mr. Elliott, by his examina-
tion and confession, produced to the committee
by the clerk of assize, and taken before sir
Edward Harley, John Scudamore and William
Gregory, esqrs., justices of the peace for the
county of Hereford, says, That he was appre-
hended when he was at his private devotion ;
but confessetb, that there were then in the
same roon\with him at devotion about six-and
twenty persons : That he was habited in a sur-
plice, with a vestment over it. And, being
examined, whether he was a priest, or in or-
ders from tbe church of Ronte, he refused to
answer thereunto; but said, Let it be proved
against me; I will not accose myself.
" 90. It appeareth to (he committee, by the
information of Mr. Joseph Newton, clerk of
the peace, of Northumberland, That William
Fenwjck, esq. is lately put into the com mission
of the peace for that county : Thafhe, being
one of the commissioners in the Dedimus, did
offer to swear the said Mr. Fenwick : But the
said Mr. Fenwick refused, and told tbe said
clerk of the peace several times, Th«t he would
not take his oath, as justice of peaee. — The
said clerk of the peace further informed the
committee, that he was employed by Mr.
Neale, and others of that county, to procure
them to be put into the commission of tbe
pence x That, to effect it, he applied to the
lord chancellor's servants: who answered, That
if those he solicited for, were papists, or sus-
«pecteoV to be such, that it could not be done :
sftaesrpon be desisted in hit solicitation,
think fit, and Mr. Attorney does think fit,
by reason of his extraordinary infirmity
that it is not seasonable to try him now.
And that the world may not say we are grown
barbarous and inhuman, we are all contented
■' i »■»>■■ I WW*
"SI. The knights for the county of Northum-
berland informed the committee, That, hearing
that Mr. Fenwick was designed to be put into
the commission of tbe peace, they both attend*'
ed the duke of Newcastle, who is Custos of
that county; and afterward attended the lord-
chancellor; and informed both their lordships
severally, Thut Mr. Fenwick was unfit to be
put into the commission ; for that he was- a sus-
pected papist, and would not act as a justice
of the peace, if he were put in ; That his wife
died a protest papist ; That his children were
brought tip in the Romish religion : and there-
fore they did desire both theia lordships, seve-
rally, That Mr. Fenwick should not be put
into the commission of the peace : That they
likewise did desire their lordships, severally,
that, William Carnaby, esq. might he put into
the commission of the peace; representing him
to be a gentleman of estate, quality and loyalty
in the county, professing the protestant reli-
gion, and every way qualified for that employ-
ment : But notwithstanding their applications
and recommendation, Mr. Carnaby was re-
fused to be put into the commission, aud
Mr. Fenwick was put into the commission;
though they both informed their lordships
severally, that Mr. Fenwick was formerly
left out of the commission of the peace,
because he was a papist, or a suspected
papist.
" The Third Head.
" The Proceedings in the Exchequer against
Recusant^.
" It appeareth to the committee, that the.'
lord- treasurer, the 25th of February 1674,
issued his warrant so the treasurer's remem-
brancer, to issue commissions against Recu-
sants, into all counties from whence any bad
been estreated ; which were delivered to the
judges to be recommended by tbem to the
several commissioners in the several counties
of their circuits.
" That tbe like warrant was issued tbe
22d day of July 1675, with commissioners*
nrfines, and instructions to them, to take
aud seize two third* parts of all the lands of
Recusants; declaring his majesty's pleasure to
refuse the twenty pounds a month* imposed oft
Recusants for not coming to church, and to
accept of two third- parts of the lands of Recu-
sants; directing the returns to be made with .
all speed ; and writs of attendance and assist-
ance to the several sheriffs, mayors, and offi-t
cers, to attend the commissioners in the execu-
tion of the commissions : That, as estreats out %
of other countries came in, the like warrants is-
sued : And those commissions were, by met*
sengers of the Exchequer, delivered to the
clerks of the peace of (he several countittj
$27] STATE TRIALS, 31 Cha*lk« IL t6ft<#>~3Kal tf Hotel Anderson, {83S
be sboirfd be set by. Therefore let him be re-
lamed back, and in the mean time you must
take care that he have that reasonable looking
Jo as is fit for a man in his condition to have.
JL. C. Baron, Acquaint^ him with what the
court sajrs to you.
with a letter from the lord- treasurer, recoro*
vending the execution of the said commis-
sions.
" That the lord-treasurer afterwards, by ad-
vice of his majesty's counsel at law, the appro-
bation of the chancellor, chief-baron, barons
Of the Exchequer, and of sir Charles HarboTd,
his majesty's surveyor-general, altered the for-
mer course and issued his warrant the 14th of
March 1676; thereby directing writs to be
issued to the several sheriffs, to seize two third-
parts, as before, of the estates of Recu-
sants.
" The 4th of July 1677, the like warrants
issued, for writs to be made out, as well against
all Recusants formerly, as then estreated; re-
turnable in Michaelmas term following.
" It appeared to the committee, That no
convictions are estreated out of some counties,
as Chester, Northampton, Oxford, Rutland,
nor any out of Wales : That in other counties
there are no executions done, either flpon die
commissions or writs, as Derby, the city of
York, Hertford, Leicester, Nottingham, Nor-
folk, and Northumberland.
' " The sheriff of Hereford stands charged with
the sum of 412/. 7*. lOd. .halfpenny half-far-
thing, for the lands of several Recusants, for
ope year and a half, ended at Michaelmas
1677. But the sheriff hath not finished his
accounts : So. that it did not appear to the com-
mittee, that any sum has been levied out of the
Recusants estates in that county.
" It appeareth t» the committee, That Row-
land Prichard, esq. sheriff of the county of
jVfonrnouth, stood charged for the year ending
at Michaelmas 1677, with nine seizures of the
estates of Recusants; which amounted to 40/.
that five of the nine were levied, which amount-
ed to 4i. IS*. 44.
" That, upon his petition, because illeviable,
he was discharged of the other four, amounting
to 35/. 6s. 8d. so that the sum that was answer-
ed into the Exchequer for that year, out of
Recusants estates in that county was 4/.
13«. 4d.
" It appeared then to the committee, That
the persons upon whom the five seizures were
executed, were Protestant Dissenters, and not
Popish Recusants; and that the sour others,
whereof the sheriff was discharged, were Popish
Recusants.
" The stun wherewith the sheriff of Moamontb-
shire stands charged for the year ending at
Michaelmas 1677, being for two-and -twenty
seizures, amounts to 61/. 17*. Qd. farthing half-
farthing : But die sheriff not having finished his
accounts, it could not appear to the commit-
tee whatcoukl bo answered into the Exche-
quer.
Capt. Richardson, I will, my lord.
Att. Gen. My lord, I desire that the judge*
may declare their opinio n in it.
X. C. J. They have dope so already, we do
all consent to it ; therefore take him, and go
get him a bed.
"It appeared to the committee, That the
sheriffs of London and Middlesex, for the year
ending at Michaelmas, 1675, stand charged
for the lands of Recusants with the sum of 100/.
3*. 4td. of which there is answered into the Ex-
chequer Ss. 4o*. for the lauds of John Coffin,
Recusant : The rest are all discharged by plea
and j udgmen t of cou rt.
" The same sheriff stands charged, for the
year 1676, for the lands of Recusants, with toe
sum of 566/. 3s. 4d. of which there is only an-
swered into the Exchequer, the sum of 5s, 44.
for the lands of John Coffin, Recusant; the
rest being all discharged by plea and judg-
ment.
" The same sheriffs stand charged, for the
year 1677, with the sum of 488/. 3*. 4d. but
their accounts are not finished : So that it could
not appear to the committee how much would
be answered into the Exchequer.
" It appeared to the committee, That die
yearly reveoue out of Recusants estates in Eng-
land and Wales, paid into the Exchequer for
the year 1675, amounted to 78/. 5*. 6d. For
the year 1676, it amounted to $36/. 5s. lOdf .
"•That the present yearly revenue out of
Recusants estates, now in charge before the
clerk of the Pipe, is 3,408/. Is. 94 fcalt-
farthing: But how much thereof will be
answered into the Exchequer, 'could not appear
to the committee; the sheriffs for this year
being not yet opposed upon their accounts.
On the 16th of November, in the same year,
the House voted the following Address to the
King:
" May it please your Majesty;
" We your majesty's most loyal and dutiful
subjects the Commons in Parliament assembled,
having information, that Charles Mehaine hath
continued in custody in the borough of Den*
high, in the county of Denbigh, since June last,
upon violentsuspicionofbeinga popish priest;
and that William Lloyd now remains in gaol
at Brecon, in the county of Brecon, upon a
commitment for being a popish priest: and
forasmuch as your majesty's justice for the
great sessions for the county of Denbigh* at
the great sessions held for the said county ia
September last, did not try the said Charles
Mehaine for the said offence: your majesty's
Protestant subjects being much disquieted, and
Eopish recusants animated, bv reason that de>
nquents of that kind are not brought to speedy
justice, especially at this time of manifest
danger to your majesty's sacred person, go*
vernment, and religion established by law, pro*
ceeding from the notorious conqwracies of
popish priests, Jesuits, and popish recuaanta t
We, humbly apprehending it to he hi&bJy
S29] STATE TRIALS, Si Chablm n. ltBO.—mtl ottert% far High Tnaum. [330
Cf. ttfCr. Set William Russel, Alias Napper,
to the bar. Who was arraigned upon an in-
dictment of the same form, only the day of the
fact differing, which was laid to be the 27th of
November, in SO Car. 8. To which he like-
wise pleaded Not Guilty, and put himself upon
the country.
a ■■■
cestafy, as some ease to the hearts of your ma-
jesty's good Protestant subjects, filled with pre-
sent fears of popery, to have the laws speedily
and "effectually executed upon popish priests;
do, witli all humility, beseech your majesty, to
grant one or more commissions of Over and
Terminer, for the trial of the said Charles Me-
hahie and William Lloyd, according to the
known and well-established laws of the king-
dom.— Apd: we do further most humbly be-
seech your majesty, That your majesty may be
pleased to command your attorney-general,
with all care and diligence to prepare the
whole evidence against Jame9 Colker,* a Bene-
dictine monk, and who assumes to himself the
title of bishop of London, for his' trial, at the
next gaol-delivery for the county of Middlesex
and city of London. — And we do further hum-
bly beseech your majesty, That yonr mfajesty
will graciously be pleased . to issue forth your
Proclamation* with a promise of a reward to
any person that shall apprehend a popish priest
or jestik.,F
And sim days afterwaads- they resolved, That
a bill be. prepared for the more easy aud speedy
discovery of Popish Priests,
Oh 20th of May, 1679, the Commons or-
dered, That a Message should he sent to the
Lords concerning the condemned Popish Priests
sent for op to London from the several county
gaols, by order of their lordships; and two
days afterwards, " Sir Wm. Francklyn reports
from the Committee appointed to draw up and
prepare a Message to be sent to' the Lords,
concerning the popish priests condemned in
the circuits, That the Committee had agreed
npon a Message to be reported to the House :
which he read in his place ; and afterwards,
delivered the same in at the clerk's table:
where the same was twice read, and, upon the
question agreed, and is as followeth ; vi2.
" The House of Commons having made an
bomble Address to his majesty, That he would
please to grve order to the judges to issue out
their warrants for the executing the several
popish priests condemned in the several cir-
cuits ; and bis majesty having been graciously
pleased to signify to the House of Commons,
That your Lordships have sent for them, in
order, as he conceived, to some examinations ;
and the House of Common's being also in-
formed, that the said priests have, by order
from your Lordships', not only been brought
* This appears to be the person, of whom,
under the name of James Corker, two trials on
Jo!yl8, t679, and January 17, 1680, .are re-
potted.
ClafCr. Set Henry Starkey to the bar.
Whose indictment was the same, only the time
differing, which was the 26th of January SO
Car. 2. And he also pleaded Not Guilty, and
put himself upon the country.
CI. cfCr. Set William Marshal to the bar.
Who being arraigned upon a like indictment,
and the time mentioned to be the 15th of Ja-
nuary 30 Car. «. And being asked, Whether
Guilty, or Not Guilty, answered thus :
Marshal. My lord, I do find by this in*
dictment, That I am arraigned for the same
crime for which I was tried before : I do hum*
hly desire to know, whether, according to law,
T can be tried twice for the same fact? .
X. C. J. No, according to the law you'
cannot be tried twice for the same fact, nor
are yon ; for .before you were indicted for hav-
ing an hand in the great conspiracy, for being
a conspirator in the Plot, and now you are
tried for being a priest, and abiding in
England.
Marshal I was- tried before yonr lordship as
a traitor.*
X. C. /. You were so.
Marshal. Now I am tried for a priest.
X. C. J. Which is another treason.
Marshal. If I am tried for a priest, I con-
ceive I cannot be tried unless as a criminal
priest : and 1 conceive I cannot be tried as a
criminal priest, unless it be as a priest thai
hath bad some attempt or design against the
government.
X. C. J. Nay, you mistake there : there may
' be priests that have had no hand in the Plot. ;
if you were acquitted for the Plot, yet you re*
main a priest still. Do you suppose then that
every priest had a hand in the Plot?
Marshal, My lord, I humbly conceive, that
priesthood, as priesthood, is no crime at all.
X. C. J. That is no crime at all.
Justice Dolben. Come, you must plead
.... ' ■ i ■■ i hi , Ml
ont of the several countries where they were
condemned, but continued yet in Newgate,
and other orisons, in or about the cities of
London ana Westminster; by reason whereof
the execution of the sentence, pronounced
upon them, is still delayed ; do desire of your
lordships, that the said priests may be forth-
with remanded to the' several counties where
they were condemned, that so they ma^ be
executed according to the judgments passed
upon them."
And on the 8th of January, 1681, the House
appointed a Committee to enquire and exa-
mine what Popish Priests convicted are in
Newgate and other gaols in the kingdom, and
to enquire into their conditions and circum-
stances. It also appears from the Journals,
that king Charles the Second did issue a Pro*
clamation, offering a reward of 20/. for the ap»
prehension of every Popish Priest, and that ac-
cordingly many besides those whose Trials are
included in this Collection, were apprehended*.
» See hb Case, supra, p. 589.
Ml] ' STATS TRIALS, 51 Crau.es II. 1080 — 7Ko/ qf Idond Anderson, £S3f
Corker. My lord, I pleaded to that indict*
ment under that qualification of clerk.
X. C. J. So men do when they say in tbe
indictment * Labourer/ plead to it in that
qualification; but if a man plead by the name
of gent, the question is not whether he be a
gent, or no, but whether he be guilty of the fact
he is indicted for: aud the question in your case
was not whether you were clerk or were not
clerk, but whether you had a hand in the Plot
or no.
Justice Atkins. If the jury had found you a
priest at that time, re had been a void finding,
more than they were to enquire of.
Mr. Belwood. He was told so at that time,
he was not tried for a priest.
Justice Ellis. After you have pleaded, then
you may urge what you have to say.
Corker. Then I say, I am Not Guilty. — And
he put himself upon the country.
CI. of Cr. Set Lionel Anderson, alias Mun-
son, to the bar. Whose indictment was for
being a. priest, and abiding here the 28th Jan.
30 Car. 2. And he pleaded Not Guilty, and
put himself upon the country.
CI. of Cr. Set Charles Parris, alias Parry, to
the bar. Whose indictment, was of the same
without more ado ; and you must not use any
• snore speeches.
X. C. J. You must be governed in all things
by the direction of tbe court.
Marshal. I do submit to the direction of
this honourable Bench : but, my lord, give me
leave to say, I suppose I am indicted upon 27
£)iz. Now if it be made appear, that according
to that statute priesthood alone is not trea-
son f
Justice Dolben. Then you must speak, it af-
terwards, but now you must plead.
Marshal. But if it be at least made doubtful,
then it becomes matter of law ; and I have
just occasion to insist upon it, and pray counsel.
Justice Dolben. You must plead . to tbe in-
dictment first.
Marshal. Why, can I ask counsel after plea
pleaded ?
L.C.J. Yes, you may, if matter of law
arise, and you may have counsel as to that
matter.
, Justice Atkins, The court is of counsel for
you in such a case.
X. C. Baron. But you must plead first.
Justice Pemberton. You cannot be heard at
all til! you have pleaded to the indictment.
X. C. J. Pray take the directions of the
" court.
Marshal. I have a great deal of reason to
submit to this honourable court that hath been
so full of mercy and clemency, and therefore I
do answer, That I am Not Guilty.
CI. of Cr. How wilt thou be tried ?
Marshal. By the king and my country.
X. C. J. No, no, that will not do.
Marshal. By God and my country.
CI. of Cr. God send thee a good deliverance.
Set Alexander Lumsden to the bar. Whose
InoHctmeut being of the same nature, only re-
citing the fact to be 11 Maii 31 Car. 2, he
pleaded Not Guilty, and put himself upon the
country. *
CI. qfCr. Set James Corker to tbe bar;
who was also arraigned for the same treason,
done upon the 24 October, 30 Car. 2. And
being asked, Whether Guilty or Not Guilty,
answered in these words.
Corker. My lorxl, I humbly beg the judgment
of the court ; I humbly conceive, my lord, I
have been already tried and acquitted for this
crime.* <•*
X. C. J. Look you, that hath been over-
ruled already in the case of Marshal just now,
who is in the same condition : you are not
now tried for the same fact for which you were
tried before.
Corker. My lord, I suppose there is some-
thing particular in my case ; I was expressly
indicted as clerk, one that received orders from
tbe See of Rome.
Justice Pemberton. His addition was 'Clerk,
that is all.
X. C. J. But you were not charged in that
indictment for this fact
*■■*•
See his Case, sup. p. 589.
3
nature, for abiding here 30 Maii 31 Car. 2.
And he also pleaded Not Guilty, and put him-
self upon the country.
CI, of Cr. Set all the prisoners to the bar
that are to be tried. William Russel, Henry
Starkey, William Marshal, Alexander Lams-
den, James Corker, Lionel Anderson, and
Charles Parry.
Capt. Richardson. They are all on.
Russel. My lord, I have been confined, I
have not bad my liberty till within these two
or three days.
X. C. J. What then ?
Russel. I have not had my friends to come
to me to advise me upon what account I was t»
be tried.
Capt. Richardson. He says, be wanted his
friends to advise for what he was to be tried.
L. C. J. Why, he knows he is to be tried for
a Popish Priest.
Capt. Richardson. Here is one says he is sick.
X. C. J. Who is that ?
Capt. Richardson. It is Anderson.
Justice Pemberton. Then be must have a
chair to sit down on.
X. C. J. V[e wfll try him first that is sick.
Then the prisoners were called to their chal-
lenges, and the jury of Middlesex appearing
upon their summons, and none of them being
excepted against, the twelve that were first
called and sworn, were the gentlemen follow-
ing : John Bradshaw, Lawrence Wood, Mat-
thew Bateman, John Vyner, Francis Mayo,
Martin James, Anthony Hall, Samuel Jewel,
Richard Bealing, ThomasJlall, Richard Brom-
field, Samuel Lynne. Then they were num-
bered, and proclamation for information in
usual manner was made.
X. C. J. Come, begin with the sick man An-
derson ; and set away the rest.
83*] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles U. 1680.— and others, for High Tremon. [8&
CI. of Cr. Lionel Anderson, hold up thy
hand. You that are sworn, look upon the pri-
soner and hearken to his cause. Me stands in-
dieted by the name of Lionel Anderson, &c.
Upon this indictment he hath been arraigned,
and thereunto hath pleaded Not Guilty ; and
for his trial hath put himself npou God and
fab country, which country you are. Your
charge is to enquire, whether he be Guilty, Sec.
Mr. Belweod. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the j ury ; the prisoner at
the bar, Lionel Anderson, alias Munson, stands
indicted for high- treason ; and it is alledged In
the Indictment, That he being born within the
king's dominions, and made a priest, and having
received orders by pretended authority from
the see of Rome, he did the 28th day of Ja-
nuary last come into the kingdom of England,
that is, as it is laid, in the parish of St. Giles
in the Fields, in this couaty ; and there he did
abide contrary to the form of the statute. And
this is laid to be traiterously done. To this he
bath pleaded Not Guilty, and we are to prove
it upon him by the king's evidence wham we
are now to call.
Anderson. My lord, for my staying in the
kingdom, I had the king's express command,
and an order from the Council- Board : In the
year 1671, they ordered Mr. Peter Welsh, and
myself, with four of fat 6thers, who had ia
writing asserted his majesty's just rights over
all his subjects, whether Protestant or Papist,
against those so frequently imputed usurpations
6? the court of Rome. . After this plot was
discovered I came to the king, being afraid of
being involved in the general calamity, and
said to him, < Sir, I desire to know what
to do?'
X. C. J. Do, why ?
Anderson. Good my lord hear me out. My
Lord Privy-Seal brought me an order from the
Council-board, and so it is recorded; and I
think Dr. Oates will be so just to me, as to ac-
knowledge that he hath seen it, and this is all
that I have to say.
L C. J. If you have an order from the
council to protect you, you must apply your-
self elsewhere? our business is to try the
single issue, whether you have offended against
the law.
Anderson. My lord, I that am but a poor little
individuum, who am born with an innate and
implicit obedience to my king, pray Judge whe-
ther it lie in my power to dispute with him and
his council, whether they can legally do this or
no? Or that t ought to obey the king's com-
mand. My lord I am put upon a hard dilemma;
if I (notwithstanding his majesty's command to
the contrary) go out of the kingdom, then the
severe imputation upon us is urged against me,
That I have, with niy religion, renounced my
natural allegiance : And if I stay, then by the-
law (as you tell me) I forfeit my life.
Mr. Belwood. This is not a time for him now
to insist on this matter.
L. C. J. Reserve yourself till the king's
counsel have done, and the evidence given.
YOL. VII.
Mr. Justite Jones. Let him save fats speech
till such time as he comes to answer for
himself.
L. C. J. Give him a chair if be be not able
to stand.
Sir J. Keeling. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, Lionel Ander-
son, otherwise Munson, the prisoner at the bar,
stands indicted here, fot that he being a subject
born witbin the dominions of the king, hajh
taken orders from the see of Rome, and hath
contrary to the law come into England, and
staid here as a traitor i For this treason he is
indicted; and the indictment is grounded upon
the statute of the £7th Eliz. a statute made al-
most an hundred rears since, and it was upon
great occasion ». For it telrs you plainly, lhat
these priests that had taken orders from the see
of Rome, were not only busy in seducing and
perverting the king's subjects to the Romish
superstition ; but they had made many attempts
upon the government, raising sedition and re-
bellion, and levying war against their sovereign;
which is evident from the preamble of the sta-
tute itself. And it is true, the lenity and mild-
ness of our princes hath in a great measure let
this statote lie asleep; they have not been
willing to execute the severity of the law upon
alt occasions at all times : but the occasion
being renewed. at this time, for the remedying
of which tin's statute was principally made (that
is to say, raising seditions and commotions,
and rebellion against the king, the particulars
of which I Shall not enlarge upon, it hath been
notorious in this place)that is the reason of the
present prosecution of these persons: Who
have not been contented to enjoy the indulg-
ence of our princes, (which hath been extended
to them, notwithstanding all their former nu-
merous affronts that they have given) bat have
raised new commotions, and made attempts
upon the person of our king, and of oat govern-
ment, and that is the occasion upon which
these persons come to be tried. It is not
purely (though that is a main ingredient^ that
they are tried quatenus priests, but as ordained
by the see of Rome, and coming into England
and abiding here. For a priest, if he be or-
dained by the see of Rome,* if he tomes not
here, can do no hurt; but it is his corning and
abiding here, that makes him the subject of this
punishment, and hath occasioned this man's
prosecution. Now, my lord, we shall prove
that this Anderson alias Munson, hath taken
orders from the see of Rome, whose authority
constituted him a priest, and this we shall prove
by several instances and steps ; and . then we
doubt: not but you will take that care for the
preservation of the government, and for the
peace and quiet of the nation, which becomes
you, and give a* verdict according as your evi-
dence shall lead von.
Serjeant Strove. My lord, we shall call our
evidence. The* fact is this, That this person
being a subject of the king^s, and having re-
ceived orders from the see of Rome, thnt is,
being a Rortriih priest, did come and abide
3H
635] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. \6S0— Trial qf Lionel Anderson, [896
here contrary to the statute; not that his
priesthood is the crime, no it is his being a
subject of the king's and owning an authority
from abroad, and thereby denying the authority
of his own sovereign. To prove this, we shall
call Dr. Oate* Mr. Bedlow, Mr. Dangerfield,
and Mr. Praunce. [Who were all sworn.]
Set up Mr. Dangerfield first. Mr. Dangerfield,
tell my lord and the jury what you know of the
prisoner at the bar, Mr. Anderson.
DangerfieUl. What I do know against him ?
L.C.f. Yes, for being a priest F
Dangerfield* What, that particularly?
X. C. J. Yes, that particularly.
Dangerfield. My lord, about the latter end
of May, or beginning of June, when I was a
prisoner for debt in the KingVbench, this person
took occasion to speak privately to me, and de-
sired me to go into his room : He told me he had
received a letter from my lady Powis, and that
letter was burnt. But the next letter that came
from my lady Powis, he would shew it me.
And be did so ; and the contents of the letter
was, as near as 1 can remember, just thus:
* Sir, you must desire Willoughby to scour his
* kettle;' which was to confess and receive the
sacrament to be true to the cause. A little
after, that was Saturday, and I think it was
the next day, being Sunday, I went into Mr.
Anderson's alias Munson's chamber, and there
I went to confession9 and received absolution.
And be sent me to another person to receive
the sacrament, who was saying mass at that
time. And when I had received the sacrament
, and returned to him again, he did tell me, That
Ite, as a priest, did give me free toleration to
go and be drunk, and drink with one Stroude :
and I asked him, being something scrupulous
in the matter, whether I might lawfully do it,
having but just received the sacrament? he
told me, Yes, be gave me authority so to do,
being for the good of the cause.
X. C. J, Were you a Papist then?
Dangerfield, Yes, I was.
Just. Atkins. You went to confession to him,
and received absolution ?
Mr. Belmood. What was the good of the
cause that he meant ?
Serj. Strode. If you please, give an account
' of the whole thing.
Dangerfield. That was, as I was employed
in a general affair for the Catholics : For I was
to use my endeavour to }>ring over Stroude to
be a witness for the lords in the Tower, concern-
ing the plot, and to invalidate Mr. Bedlow's
testimony.
Anderson. Here I am upon my life and death ;
all the world knows me, that hath heard of my
name-
Just. Pemberton. Pray make no speeches, if
you will ask any questions you may.
Anderson. No, I won't. Fray do not interrupt
• me ; I perceive you have a pique against my life,
and it mav be 1 am as ready to give it, as you
are to desire it ; I wish that all the punishments
of hell and damnation may come upon me, if
ever I opened my month to this rogue for one
farthing, or about any such business in the
world.
X. C. J. You must not call him rogue in open
court. Let us have that respect shewn us that
is fitting, and so shall you have ; but this lan-
guage we must not suffer.
Anderum. In the first place, I will bring all
the prisoners in the King's-bench prison to
testify, That I desired to be removed to New*
gate, for here was the greatest rogue come in
that was in England.
Just. Pemberton. This must not be suf-
fered.
X. C. J. If you will ask him any questions,
you may.
Anderson. Weil, come Mr. Dangerfield, in
the first place, Who ever saw you with me ? It
is impossible but somebody most see you with
me, if we were together, as you say.
Dangerfield. My lord, there is one Hill, that
is now a prisoner in the king's-bench, that saw
me several tiroes go into his chamber.
X. C. J. Was there any body by when yom
confessed yourself to him ?
Justice Dolben. Confessions used to be in
secret.
Dangerfield. No, my lord, he was not in the
chamber, ueitber was it reasonable he should,
but he saw me go in often.
Anderson. Surely, Mr. Dangerfield, yon and
I could not be so well acquainted, but some-
body or other most take notice, that we spoke
together sometimes. Now if you can produce
any one body that will testify it, I will be bound
to b£ hanged, and say no more.
Justice Atkins. He is not bound to bring
witnesses to this purpose. He swears the fact
charged upon you positively.
Dangerfield. This Hill, my lord, that is in
the King's-bench, hath made oath of it before
Mr. Justice Foster.
Anderson. But, my lord, this one thing I have
to say against this rogue; there is a statute,
made since his majesty*s happy restoration,
which judges what shall be treason during bis
majesty's life: And after enumerating the
crimes, directing that the offender ' shall be
convicted by the oaths of two lawful,' adds ' and
credible witnesses :' As if the prudence of our
legislators, which brings good out of evil, and
measures the subjects future safety by past
practices, judges that clause necessary, ' and
credible/
X. C J. Pray speak out, Sir, for I cannot
hear you.
Anderson. My lord, I understand the mean*
ing applicable to roe thus, That since the sta-
tute does use the word ' credible' as well as
legal, it does judge that both would be verv ♦ne-
cessary. Now that he is not a credible witness
I can prove
X. C. J. Why is he not credible? Certain^
if he be legal he is credible.
Anderson. No, my lord, that does not follow.
First the
Recorder. It is not his time to make this sort
of defence.
837] STATE TRIALS, 31 ChaklisII. \6&0.— and others, for High Treason. [639
Justice Doiben. He should hare done it be-
fore the witness was sworn, if he would except
against bis testimony.
L. C. J. Bat why is he not a good witness,
pray?
Anderson. My lord, a' map pilloried twice,
that hath broke prison once, and committed
other heinous offences—
' L. C.J. Where is the record of any of this?
Anderson. My lord, I'll tell you how I prove
it. That worthy gentleman, colonel Mansel,
whom this villain would have involved in—
L. C. J. You must not do thus, abuse persons
with words, without proof.
Anderson. What, to prove it is day ?
Justice Pemberton. He must not be suffered
so to do.
Anderson. Why, here is capt. Richardson,
(taking him at the same time by the shoulders]
knows what I say to be true : Come, speak,
you have been familiarly acquainted with that
rogue, (pointing at Dangerfield.) [Captain
Richardson laughing, I must not witness.] My
lord, I will do thus no more; indulge a little to
my innocency and infirmity.
Justice Pemberton. You do not seem to have
co much infirmity upon you.
Anderson. My lord, I will produce that
worthy gentleman, col. Mansel, whose innocent
blood was designed to be shed by that villain ;
who stood qualified then (as he doth now) with
that magnificent title of the king's evidence ;
but as soon as col. Mansel urged, that he was
pilloried twice, ore. our worshipful king's evi-
dence -was clapped up, and col. Mansel left at
liberty.
L. C. J. Have you that record here?
Anderson. I have not.
Sir John Keiling. We pray we may go on
then.
Serj. Strode. Set up Dr. Oates. Dr. Oates,
will you tell what you know of this matter ?
Oates. My lord, he is a priest, I can in sin-
cerity say it ; I have heard him say mass my-
self.
L.C.J. Where?
Anderson. It is very true, I did it ; but, my
lord, I will shew you, mass is no proof of a
priest: For, 1. The statute makes a difference
between saving mass, and being a priest ; in
punishing priests with death ; but saying of mass,
with* a pecuniary mulct of 200 marks, and a
year's imprisonment*
Gates. He does execute the office of a priest,
for I have been at confession with him as a
priest, and have seen him consecrate the Sacra-
ment, and I have seen bis letters of orders as a
priest? *
X. C. J. Did he wear the habit of a priest?
Oates. Yes, at mass.
Mr. Behfood. Pray, Sir, are you sure you
saw his orders as a priest?
Oates. Yes, 1 did.
L. C. J. Of what order is he?
Oates. A Dominican frier he is.
X. G. J. What can you say to that?
Anderson. I can say enough ; but what can
I say against the king's evidence? your lordship
sees this makes a very tine jiogle, but there is
no proof of it.
L. C. J. We can go no further than the evi-*
dence. He says, you are a Dominican frier:
That be heard you say mass : That he saw yon
consecrate the < Sacrament. And I am sure
you allow none but a priest to do that.
Anderson. I understand by the laws of fine-
land, that I am tried upon a statute which
makes priesthood a crime. Now I will ask
Mr. Oates a question : Mr. Oates, can you
prove, that I received orders from the see of
Rome? You are to prove, by this statute, three
things against me. I am tried .upon a penal
statute, which ought to be construed most in
favour of the prisoner.
Just. Pemberton. Ask him any questions, if
yeu will, but this is not your time for arguing.
L. C. J. Look you, we must do with you as
we have done with others, and will do with
the rest. If you mean that this statute should
never have any effect, that is, that the priests
shall not be convicted as such, unless we can
produce witnesses that saw them take orders,
then you have avoided all the statute; but if
so be it be plainly proved, that you have done
the acts of a priest, those that none arc allowed
of to do, or undertake to do, but a priest, is
not this a satiifaction, and a. plain one too, to
yourself and all the world, -^hat this issue, whe-
ther you are a priest or ribt a priest, is weU
proved in the affirmative ?
Oates. My lord, I saw his letters of orders.
Anderson. My Lord Chief Justice, I would
speak a little to what you say.
Just. Pemberton. Look you, sir, you must
not have such liberty as this granted to you.
You may, if you will, ask questions, but it is
not your time to dispute.
Just. Jones. You must net invert the order
of trials. When a witness is called, he must'
give his evidence. If you will ask him any
questions, you may do it. But if you will ob-
serve any thing, you have time to do it when
the king's witnesses are all heard.
Just. Atkins. Dr. Oates, the prisoner did
not understand sore what you said. Did not
he confess to you be had orders from -Rome?
Oates. Yes,' he did confess so.
L. C. J. You confessed it yourself.
Anderson, My lord, how comes it to pass,
that I did not come here in a yellow coat, and
was arraigned for a fool, and not for a traitor?
If I am a priest, that I should tell him I was
such ah one.
L. C. J. Nay, I cannot tell, because you
did not put it on. If you would ask him any
questions) do.
Anderson. Yes, Whether you do know me
to be an Englishman ? And whether you saw
me take orders from the see of Rome r
Oates, You said you were an Englishman,
and a gentleman, and the son of an English
gentleman,
L. C. J. Do yon deny yon are an English-
man?
SO)] STATE THIALS, 3 1 Charles U. 1 080,— TWo/ qf Lionel JsuUwm, [HO
Anderson. I am not, nor no man is to be
tried upon a presumption ; it is but a conceit
in law, and penal laws are to be taken strictly,
and in favour of the prisoner.
. L. C. X Methinks you speak very like au
Englishman.
Mr. Belwood. My lord, we call now Mr.
Bedlow. You know the question, what it is,
Sir, concerning the prisoner's being a priest.
Bedlam. He is a priest, and an Englishman,
if his mother was honest, and he honestly born ;
for he is Mr. Anderson's son of Oxfordshire, a
gentleman of 2 or 300/. a year ; I know him
and his father very well.
Anderson. My lord, could I but apprehend
that I Jay under so great a guilt, as to have
been acquainted with so great a rogue as this
fellow is, I would have beeq my own execu-
tioner, and not have expected ray sentence at
this bar.
X. C. J. Do you know bira well ?
Bedlow. Very well, both him and his father;
his father is an Oxfordshire gentleman.
Anderson, Now I think I shall prove the
rogue perjured : Is my Lord Chief Baron in .
the Court ?
Court. Yes, he is.
Anderson. Why then my father has the
honour to be well known to his lordship, who
knows this to be false.
X. C. $aron (Wp< Montague, esq.)* No,
no, Mr. Bedlow^Ee is a gentleman's son of
quality in Lincolnshire.
X. C. X You are mistaken, you are mis-
taken, his father is a Lincolnshire gentleman.
Anderson. And yet this rogue is upon his
oath; but indeed all his life is' full of such
mistakes.
Bedlow. I don't know, my Lord Privy-Seal's
nephew told me so.
X. C. J. But what say you to him, as to his
being a priest?
Bedlow. I have heard him say mass.
X. C. X Did yon ever receive the Sacrament
from him ?
Bedlow. Never. But I' have seen him ad-
minister the Sacrament, and he was in a priest's
habit.
X. C.X Where?
Bedlow. I think it was at the Venetian
Resident's; I am sure it was at some of the
ambassador's houses.
Anderson, This matter is so unlikely, I know
not what to say to it.
Just. Pemberton, Will you ask him any
questions?
j&nderson, Upoa my salvation I never saw
lum before.
Just. JDolOen. It is a strange thing, that you
should take upon you to say upon your salva-
tion you never saw him i How many might
come into a room, and you not see tbem while
you are at mass ?
X. C. X He might see you, though you did
not see him : He might come in, and you not
see him.
Just. Atkins. Is that any argument, or any
thing to the purpose, or does that contradict
the evidence? Does the minister, or ought he
to know all his congregation whilst he is in
preaching?
Anderson. I never saw him, I say. Mjr
lord, I'll give you but one argument, which »
called Argument um congruenti*. ■
Just. Jones. Will you ask him any questions ?
Anderson. To what purpose .will it be for
me to ask him ?
Bedlow. When he wa6 first taken I was not
stirring; but while I was making ready they
told me there was one suspected io be a priest.
I heard him speak in the next mom, and I
knew his voice, and said, That is Mr. Ander-
son. I presently knew his tongue before I saw
him.
X. C. X You knew him very well then ?
Bedlow. I never had any great converse with
the man : When he was taken they asked me,
If I knew any thing of this man about the Plot ?
I told them, No; but he was in orders from
the Church of Home, for I heard him say man
at such a place. He told me, said he, I have
been in orders, but I revoked them, and turned
protestant.
Mr. Belwood. Set up Mr. Praunce. Pray,
Sir, tell what you know. %
Praunce. My lord, I have beard him say
mass several tunes at Wild-House; and a*
bath given the sacrament there, and I have
seen him take confessions — —
X. C. X How often ?
Praunce. Several times.
X. C. X Then you know him very wall ?
Praunce. Yes, very well.
Anderson. I never saw him in my life.
X. C. X But he hath seen you.
Anderson. My lord chief justice, I will bring
witnesses to prove, That I did never say mast
at Wild-House, nor went to the chapel : For
some, forsooth, would needs have me to have
been excommunicated for writing for the king's
temporal jurisdiction over all his subjects (in-
dependent of the pope) as appears by a Letter
of the bishop of Loudon on my behalf to sir
Clement Armiger.
X. C. J. How long have you known him ?
Praunce. Seven years.
X. C. X How often have you seen him aay
mass?
Praunce. A dozen times.
Anderson. It may seem strange that I should
have the impudence to deny what this worthy
gentleman says. Mr. Praunce, dare you say
you know me?
X. C. J. Why, were you never there ?
Just. Jones. Well, wAl, will you ask him any
questions ?
Anderson. Who did I give the Sacrament to ?
Praunce, A whole rail-full hath been at the
Sacrament at a time ; several people I have ^
seen receive it from him.
X. C. X Did he deliver the Sacrament to
you?
Praunce. No, he did not, I commonly re*
ceived at Somerset* House.
841 ] STATE TEIAI& % I Chau.es II. i 6*0.— am* otter*, for High Troaum. [843
Serj. Strode. We have done, nay lord.
Just. Jones. The king's counsel have done
with their evidence, and now yon may say what
you will.
Anderson. My Lord Chief Justice, may I
apeak now ?
I*. Q. J. Yes, you may.
Anderson. My lord, all the world knows me,
and I am known to most of the digni6ed clergy
in England ; My lord bishop of Loudon, and
Dr. Lloyd, and the bishop of Durham sent co
me to tell me, that if they knew of my trial they
would be here. My lord, I have lain under an
ill censure for scjibblieg and writing against the
temporal power of the Church of Rome, I
never said mass in any popish church, I am
confident, these ten years; that I have said
mass, I will not deny. I would not tell a He '
(p tare my own life ; nay, nor would I tell a
lie to take away the life of the greatest villain
upon earth; no, sot that rogue [pointing to
Dangerfield.1 But, my lord, I protest there is
not one word true that bach been sworn against
roe, but what Dr.- Oates hath said concerning
my saying mass. v Oh S my lord, I would not
deny it if I were to be hanged presently; and
!• not that a great evidence of my innocence
and sincerity ? But this does not prove that I
am guilty of what I am accused for ; for I -am
indicted upon a penal statute, and three things
must be proved strictly to bring me within that
law ; First, that I am an Englishman—
X. C. /. It is proved you are an Oxfordshire
man. t
Anderson, No, my father is Lincolnshire,
and my lord chief baron knows him.
L. C. Baron. I do know a gentleman of that
name there.
Be4kw. I was told he was Oxfordshire.
Just. Dolben. He speaks himself to be an
Englishman. All the world knows. it by your
speech.
Anderson. I know my father is bo.
L. C. J. Why do you deny it yourself?
Anderson. It is one thing to .deny it, and
another thing to have it proved so : I am not
to prove it, they are.
X. C. J. He says you are so.
Anderson. He* talks like a parrot t These
things are to be proved strictly; no man's life
is to be taken away by presumption ; which is
but a conceit in law, and ought not to over-
throw that maxim of law, that penal laws ought
to be taken most strictly in favour of the pri-
soner: And I ought to be proved, ad literam,
within the law; and that according to the
statute made since bis majesty's happy Restora-
tion, by two lawful witnesses ; and not only by
two lawful, but by two credible witnesses too.
I suppose the gentlemen of the jury being ap-
prized of these my exceptions to these wit-
nesses, notwithstanding give credit to them,
whom perhaps they would not trust for 6d. in
their shops, and make themselves their com pur-
gators; and, as in waging law, do take it upon
their conscience, that what these rogues say is
true.
•
X. C. J. So they do.
Just. Dolben. If these things are not wall
proved nothing will be proved.
Just. Atkins. Have you any witnesses that
you would call ?
Just. Pmberton. If you will call any, you
may.
Anderson. How shall I call them, when X
did not know of my trial?
Mr. Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies.) If yon
will send for any witnesses the court will stay, if
they be to any thing material*
Anderson. My lord, I have against this gen-
tleman, Mr. Oangerfield, almost all the priso-
ners of the KingVBench for witnesses.
L. G. J. Call them, and name them.
Anderson. Mr. Adderlev, Mr. Puller, who
can say that I never drunk a pot of ale with
this man while be was there.
L. C. J. Who would you send for ?
Anderson. Those persons, to prove that T
had a grudge and prejudice against this man,
and that I desired to be removed to Newgate
for that very reason.
Just. Dolben. But the question is, Whether
you be a priest, or no ? And you cannot send
for any one that knows you, but will say, That
he hath taken you for a priest all along.
Anderson. But still k is but a presumption,
not a proof.
Just. Dolben. The jury is to be judge of that,
how far that gees.
L. C. J. What do you expect for proof? Do
you imagine there should he no proof to. con-
vict you upon that statute, unless we produce
some witnesses that actually saw you take
orders?
Anderson. Yes, I suppose so, my lord, be-
cause penal statutes are to be taken strictly.
L. C. J. Look you then, How vain would
you make a statute of England, the laws of
your country ? How idle a thing were it to ex-
pect any possibility of proof, such as to convict
a priest, if this be the interpretation of the law,
That no man should be convicted by a jury
upon this statute, but one against whom two
witnesses should swear they, saw him take
orders ? Where can we find such a witness?
Anderson. Admit that this law were thus
evaded, yet there would be no inconvenience,
and I would prove it to your lordship by autho*
rity : It was the opinion of all the Judges, de-
livered about 9 years ago to the king and couo*
cil, upon a Question about laws against the
Romish recusants ; they all agreed, That this
law was only made in terrorem.
Just. Pemberion. Look you, Sir, you must
not talk so, it is not to be permitted.
Just. Dolben. Will you go to arraign the
judges here ?
L. Q. J. No, no ; the king's counsel did
very honestly and prudently upon that matter :
For said sir John Keiling, It is very true, our
kings have not, since this law was made, put
the statute in execution unto rigour, 'till yon
yourselves occasioned it: But still the law wap
a good law, and absolutely necesjarjr at it*
848] STATE TRIALS, SI Charles II. 1680.— TWa/p/ Lionel Anderson, [844
any case as I know of. And all your witnesses
will be to little purpose.
Anderson. Only. this I desire to observe,
That I have been a man always countenanced
by the best of kings, and his privy- council; and
if the parliament bad not been dissolved, I had
been protected by the parliament: Now, I say,
if Tour lordships think me worthy of any con-
sideration (as I have been a man that have
given several testimonies of my loyalty, and
obedience to the government) I desire your
lordships would please to stay till you know
the king's pleasure.
X. C. J. You know where you must apply
yourself for that; we are barely upon our oaths,
and so is the jury too, to try the fact, whether
you be a priest ; and this I will tell you, and I
must say to you, I dare appeal to your own
consciences, whether~this issue, your being a
Romish priest, is not as plainly and evidently
proved to the satisfaction of. all mankind, as
any thing can 'be?
Andcrton But it is all by presumption still.
X. C« J. Well, gentlemen of the jury, the
matter that he insists upon, are two things,
First, says he, Yon have not proved me to be
an Englishman, and yet at the same time he
appeals to such as knew his father to be an
English gentleman ; and his language, his tongue
betrays him. It is true, some kind of evidence
is to be given, that be is an Englishman, he
himself tells you, that he is born of English
parents; but it is a foreign matter, that he
should be born beyond sea. And if it- were so
really, then it comes on this side : if he can pro*
duce any witness, be says something; otherwise
we leave it to you, whether yon are not satisfied
in your consciences, by hearing him speak, and
understanding who his* father was, that he is an
Englishman. The next thing is for his being a
priest: I do not know, nor can their be ex-
pected a plainer proof than this that bath been
tiven, because he doth those acts which none
but a priest amongst them does ; he says mass,
he consecrates the sacrament, he takes confes-
sion, he gives absolution, and all this proved by
four witnesses.
Anderson. That the clerk does at mass, he
gives absolution.
X. C J. Does or can any but a priest ab-
solve?
Gates. My lord the clerk, he that serves at
mass at that time, gives pro forma absolution
to the priest, without which, the priest cannot
approach to the altar; after be bath made' a
general confession for the whole congregation,
the clerk absolves the priest, that be may ab-
solve the congregation.
X. C. J. Well, the fact is plain upon yee ;
we must never expect to convict a priest upon
this statute, if such proof is not sufficient.
Just. Dolben. He does acknowledge that Dr.
Oates hath, heard him say mass*
X. C. J. Go on to the next.
Mr. Belwood. The next we will try, shall be
James Corker, [With whom the jury was charg-
ed, as with the other.] May it please your
making, as necessary as the preservation of the
queen's life, and the quiet of her dominions ;
and now it is become as necessary for the pre-
servation of the protectant religion, which all
your arts are employed to undermine; and
more necessary again, for the preservation of
our kjng's life, against which your contrivances
are so bent.
Just. Pemberton. Do you think that you
shall be heard here to dispute against the law,
and say it was no matter for the law, it is a
void law ; and scandalize the judges, that they
gave it for their opinion, that it was only in
terrorem t
Anderson. No, I dispute for the law.
Just. Pemberton. You must employ your
time otherwise, if you intend to be heard.
Anderson, 'Then this is that I require ; I de-
sire these things may be proved ; First, That 1
am an Englishman, and then I took orders
from Rome, and then that I abode here con-
trary to the statute, which things in this penal
statute must be proved.
X. C. J, You have, upon the matter, proved
the first yourself in your appeal to my lord chief
baron, that he knew your father, who is a Liu*
colnsbire man.
Anderson. I might be bred and born beyond
sea, though my father was so.
X. C. J. If you will give no proof to the con-
trary, a little proof will serve the jury's turn,
hearing vou speak, and knowing your father was
a Lincolnshire man.
Anderson. No negative can be sworn,' they
most prove the affirmative.
X. C. J. That will torn the proof upon yon
to the contrary.
Just. Atkins. A reasonable proof against
you, with such probability, will put it upon you
to disprove it.
Just. Pfl*&frfo». Look you, Mr. Anderson,
if you have any witnesses to call for or send
for, the" court will give yoa leave to stand by a
little and send for them'; but if you continue
to argue in this manner, the court will give
their directions to the jury.
X. C. J. But, Mr. Anderson,, the court will
do you all the justice that can be expected. If
you have any material witnesses to be sent for,
the court will have patience till they come ;
but then you must be sure they are material
witnesses, for we will not go to lose time upon
a bare surmise. If it be only to prove this ne-
gative, that Mr. Dangerfield was never in your
company in the King's-bench, it will signify no-
thing, for there are three witnesses without him.
Just. Pemberton. Have you any witnesses
to prove that you were born beyond sea, or
anything that is material, we will stay for them.
Just. Ellis. There is nothing now in question
bet whether you be an Englishman and a priest ;
and if vou can prove that you are not so, you
say well. But I think you deny not now but
that you are a priest, only you would have us
prove that you are an Englishman. Your
speech betrays you, and there is so much evi-
dence against you, that I have not beard in
845] STATE TRIALS, 31 Csaxjlbs IL 1680.— W others, for High Treuon. [846
lordship, and you gentlemen of the jury;
James Corker, the prisoner at the bar, stands
indicted for high treason, for that being born
within the king's dominions, and made a priest
by authority from the see of Rome, did traite-
rously come and abide in England, contrary
to the law. To this he hath pleaded not guilty.
X. C. X Well, call your witnesses.
Serj. Strode. Dr. Oates, Mr. Bedlow, and
Mr. Praunce. [Who were all sworn.] Dr. Oates,
pray tell my lord, and these gentlemen, what
yon know of this Mr. Corker's being a priest.
Oates, My lord, he hath said mass at Somer-
set-boose; and before the Proclamation and
Declaration in 1674, made against the catho-
lics, he was one of the queen's priests, he is
a Benedictine monk, and he hath said mass at
Somerset house ; and I have heard him say
mass at the Savoy.
X. C.J. In a priest's habit?
Oates. Yes, I have seen him in a monk's
habit.
Corker. When ?
X. C. X Have you ever seen him give the sa-
crament?
Oates. Yes, I received the sacrament from
him myself.
X.C.X Where?
Oates. In the Savoy. *
X. C X Did he consecrate the sacrament ?
Oates. Not that that I received ; I cannot
aay whether he did or no.
X. C. X Do any administer the sacrament
but priests ?
Oates. They are in orders first. And it is
against the laws of the church for any but
priests, to do it.
X. C. J. None use to do it but priests, do
they?
Oates. I cannot tell ; but he that I took it
from, I always took to be a priest: Be-
sides, I saw his patent to be bishop of London;
and they don't use to make them bishops be-
fore they be priests.
X. C. X Did he shew it you ?
Oates. I saw it.
Justice Atkins. From whom was that pa-
tent?
Oates. It was from the see of Rome.
Justice Atkins. Under what seal was it ?
Oates. I can't tell that; but I remember
that I saw the patent.
X. C. X Well, will you ast him any thing?
Corker. When was it that you heard me say
mass?
Oates, The first time that I heard him say
mass, is near upon three years ago ; and then
I beard him say mass about the last winter was
two years.
X. C. X How often have you heard him say
mass ?
Oates. Several times ; a dozeji times I be-
lieve.
Corker. Was there any body with you when
you heard me say mass ?
Oates. I believe there was an whole church
full at Somerset House.
I
Corker. Can you nominate any in particu-
lar?
Justice Atkins. How can he do that ? He
says there was an whole church full.
• Justice Pemberton. Will you ask him any
more questions ?
Corker. No.
Serjeant Strode. Then set up Mr. Bedlow,
Pray, Sir, will you tell my lord and the jury,
what you know of Mr. Corker's being a priest.
Bedlow. I have seen him wear the habit of
a Benedictine monk, before the suppressing of
the convent in the Savoy ; and I have seen him.
confessing several people in Somerset House.
X. C. X And gave them absolution ?
Bedlow. Yes.
X. C. X Do they use to let them see wbea
they confess ?
bedlow. They confess in public, but they
speak so softly we cannot hear ; but the whole
chapel sometimes may be full of people con*
fessing.
X. C. X When was this ?
Bedlow. About four or five years since, when
Father Lathum was there.
X. C. X Did you ever hear him say mass at
Father Lathum's?
Bedlow. No, I never saw him say mass, but
only confess.
L. C. X Did you never see him deliver the
Sacrament ?
Bedlow. No, my lord.
Corker. When you saw me in my habit, was
it when you came to Father Lathum's ?
Bedlow. I judge so, it was several times, with
several of them.
Corker. Can you nominate any one that saw
me at the same time ? .
Bedlow. There were a whole chapel full of
Catholics.
Justice Pemberton. That is no great matter
whether he can or no.
Justice Atkins. It is an immaterial question,
why do you ask it ?
-bedlow. My lord, what I did was done so
privately, that if I went but from Strand-bridge
to the monks, I either took a boat and went by
water, or a coach and went round about, to
avoid suspicion.
Mr. Behoood. Then set up Mr. Praunce.
Pray, Sir, tell what you know of this.
Praunce. I have beard him say mass at Mr.
Pas ton's in Duke-street.
X. C. J. Row ofteu ?
Praunce. Never but once ?
Corker. When, Sir ?
Praunce. It may be two years ago.
Justice Atkins. That is another place too,
Mr. Corker.
X. C. J. Have you any thing to ask him ?
Corker. No, my lord.
X. C. X What have you then to say for
yourself ?
Corker. My lord, this I have to say for my-
self, and I do protest it to be true : I never in
my life did say mass or hear confessions at So*
merset House.
84t] STATE TRIALS, 31 Citable* II. WSO.— Trial <tf Lionel Anderson, [848
L. C. J. What say you to Mr. Pulton's ?
Corker. No, nor at Mr. Pasteo's ; nor ever
was in the company of that man, nor ever saw
hi in there in my life, to my knowledge.
L. C. J. That may be.
Corker. I likewise protest, that I never said
mass in any public place since I was born.
L. C.J. It may be yon count not Mr. Pas-
ton's a public place.
Corker. If it be a private place, then I should
know who were in the company, and who were
admitted there.
L. C. J. No, you were not two or three
years ago so nice and cautious whom you ad-
mitted to see you in the exercise of what you
call your religion ; because the execution of
the law was not so strict as now-a-days it is.
And therefore it is very probable, and may
very well be, that you were at Mr. Pns ton's
bouse, and yet not know all the company.
Corker. But I say, I never did say mass
there.
Justice Pemberton. Here are three witnesses
ataiost you, and do you think your bare word
will be taken against their three oaths ?
Recorder. What say you to the Savoy, Mr.
Corker? I ask you, because I would know
whether you can speak truth in any thing.
Corker. I would not tell a he, though I
should thereby save my life : and I do again
protest before, God and the Court, I never in
my life said mass or heard confessions at So-
merset House chapel, nor at Mr. Paston's in
Duke-street. And as to the Savoy, seeing I
will be sincere, I shall only say, that as my de-
nial will not clear me, so I beg I may not be
my own accuser.
L. C.J. Here is one hath swore it.
Corker. It is only Oatcs, my lord.
L. C. J. Well gentlemen of the jury, you
hear what is proved against him by three wit-
nesses, that they heard him say mass and re-
ceive confessions, and deliver the Sacrament.
They tell you what order he was of, and that
they saw him do the acts of a priest.
Corker. I appeal to all the world that ever
came to Somerset House, whether ever any one
heard me say mass there.
L. C. J. Here is one hath.
Serj. Strode. We will try William Marshal
neat* [Who was charged upon the jury as the
other.]
Mr. Belmood. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, William Mar-
shal, the prisoner at the bar, stands indicted
for high treason. The offence is not for being
a priest barely ; but that he being born an
Englishman, within the king's dominions, and
having received orders from Rome, did, against
the laws of the kingdom, come and abide here.
Serj. Strode. Swear Dr. Oates and Mr. Bed-
low. [Which was done.] Dr. Oates, pray stand
up.
L. C. J. What can you say to Mr. Marshal's
being a priest ?
Oates. I have heard him say mass in the
Savoy, and I have seen him in tharpostore that
the priests are in when they give absolution.
X. C. J. Have you seen him in a priest's ha-
bit say mass ?
Oates. Yes, in his habit as a Benedictine
monk.
Justice Jones. Did you ever see lrira give the
Sacrament f •
Oates. Yes, and consecrate the host.
Justice Jones. Well, have you any thing to
ask him ?
Marshal. When was this ?
Oates. I have known him these three years
to be a priest.
Marshal. That is a year longer than yon
knew me at the trial.
Oates. It is a great while since that trial.
JL C. J. Aye, that is a good while ago.
Marshal. But where, Mr. Oates, and when ?
Oates. At the Savoy. -
Marshal. When?
Oates. Within the compass of three years,
several times.
Marshal. How does that afford me any oc-
casion of defence ? I can make no plea, unless
he ascertains time.
Justice Pemberton. It is good evidence,
without confining himself to precise time.
L. C. X He says a dozen times within that
compass.
Marshal. But why does he not name some
particular time ; for unless he name the time,
now is it possible for us to disprove him ?
L. C. J. lie tells you many times m three
years.
MarsftaL But when ?
L. C. J. Why, within three years.
Justice DolOen. What if be could tell you
when ?
Marshal, Let bim name the day, then we
could disprove him ; and' let him name the
day, and if I do not disprove him I will be hang'cL
L. C. J. It is an improper question that you
ask.
Just. Pmbertons He is not bound to name
the day.
Oates. Well I will pitch upon a day now.
Marshal, When was it?
Oates, Several times last summer was twelve-
month.
Marshal. What, before the Plot?
Oates. Several times in that summer before
the Plot was discovered ; and* several times the
winter before, when I came over from Spain.
Marshal. Did you bear me say mass before
you went over to Spain ? — Oates. Yes, I did.
Just. Dolben. Call another witness.
Mr. Bel&ood. Mr. Bedlow.
Serj. Strode. Pray will you tell what you
know of Mr. Marshal.
Bedlow. I know a great deal of him.
L. C. J. What of his being a priest ?
Bedlow. I have seen him in his habit of a
Benedictine monk id the Savoy.
L. C. J. Have you heard biro say mass?
Bedlow. No, my Lord, I have not ; but be
hath been preparing to go to take confessions.
849] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1680.— and others, for High Treason. [850
X. C J. Qjd be own himself to be a priest ?
Bediow, tie was in the habit of a priest, but
I never saw hini execute any part of the office
of a priest.
Just. Pemberton. Did you hear him declare,
that he hath been going at any time to take
confession.
Bediow. The monks have said when he
hath been gone, that he went to take confes-
sions.
X. C. J. Upon your oath, have you ever
heard him own himself to be a priest, or ever
say that he was going to take confession ?
Bediow. No, my Lord ; but I have seen him
in a monk's habit, and within half an hour he
was in a secular habit : for when they went .
abroad they took confessions in their secular
habit.
X C. J. How often have you seen him in a
Hionk's habit?
Bediow. I do not know whether it were more
than once; and I asked then, Where is our
Father going ?
Justice Pemberton, And what said they to
you?
Bediow. He was going to take confessions.
Just. Dolben. Have not you yourself been
confessed by Marshal?
Bediow. No, my Lord.
L. C. J. What say you to him, will you ask
htm any questions?.
Marihal. I do not, I think, need to ask this
witness any questions.
X. C. J. That shall be observed for you, if it
be to your advantage. If you have any thing
to say for yourself, pray speak it.
Marshal, If there be but One witness, what
need I make any defence ?
X. C. J. What say you to Mr. Oates's tes-
timony?
Marshal. As for Mr. Oates, if yoer lordship
wfll but promise, that it shall not prejudice me,
as to the point of having hut one witness, I
have much to say for myself: but I think I
need not trouble your lordship with if.
Sir John Keiling. Were not you here when
Marshal was tried for the plot ?
Bediow. Yes.
Just. Pemberton. You must not ask him any
questions about that.
Martial. My Lord, I say, if your lordship'
will but grant, ttjat the witnesses may have free
access, and go away safe
Bediow. I believe the court upon his trial,
was satisfied that he was in orders, received
from the church of Rome.
Sir John Keiling. Swear. Mr.' Praunce.
[Which was done.] What did you hear him
say at his last trial ?
X. C. J. This is hard evidence truly.
Justice Jones. If he would do it voluntarily
of himself, he might, we did not aik him the
question.
Praunce. My Lord, I stood just by him when
he stood at the bar, and I heard him say this to
the other man, ' Mr. Corker, though we are
* priests, this does not reach us/
▼OI,. VII,
X C J. But is this good evidence ?
Praunce. 1 did hear him say be was a priest.
Just. Pemberton. We did aU hear him bay so,
I believe.
• Just. Atkins. I dare say none of the court
asked him the question.
Marthal. My Lord, I was not asked, nor had
any occasion, and certainly I should not pick an
occasion to condemn myself: if I did it, I
did it without occasion. Besides, mv Lord, I
humbly conceive, that there must oe proof
against a man, or his confession won't make him
guilty.
Just. Pemberton. I would not have you too
sure of that.
Marshal. Certainly if a man dp confess at
another time, without proof against him that
will not do.
Just. Pemberton. I believe the jury wilt take
your own confession.
X. C. J. Don't be over confident of that,
for we have memories too as well as you.
Just. Pemberton. You are not belied by
Mr. Praunce, I believe, Mr. Marshal.
Just. Ellis. If he have confessed it, that is
sure proof enough.
Sir John Keiling. Swear Mr. Dogdale.
[Which was done.] You were at the last trial,
oir ; I only ask of you, can you remember any
thing of this ?
Dugdale. To the best of my remembrance,
I beard him own that he was a priest.
Sir John Keiling. Then say what you can for
yoiiTself.
Mar$hal. My Lord, I have only one material
witness against me. They say that I said so ;
if I did say so, I must say it to the court ; and
if it was to the court, it must be upon some que**
tion asked me.
X C. J. You roust not say so ; I am afraid
if you appeal to the court, it will do you no
good.
Just. Dolben. it is plain that you are so free
of your discourse, that you might say things that
were not pertinent.
X C. J. It is not proper for the court to
give evidence; if we did, we should do you
little service in this matter.
Marshal. I do believe I shall receive all
justice from the court. And I have experienced
it so already. Now as to the present testimony
against me, I conceive that only Mr. Oates is
a material witness ; no one else swears that
they ever saw me officiate or perform the duty
of a priest. As for Mr. Oates, he says he
heard me say mass several times the last sum*
mer before the plot. And Mr. Oates did say
he was present in June, July, and August*
Sir William Waller, though he was pleased to
forget other things, yet did remember that, and
did testify that he saw me in June, July, and
August. Now then I humbly conceive, if he
heard me say mass at any time in that summer,
it must be in one of those three months. Was
it in any one of them ?
Oatet. My lord, I came over in April from
St. Omers, and I did, as I remember, hear him
3 I
851] STATE TRIALS, 34 Charles II. 16S0.— Trial qf Lionel Anderson, [652
say mass one time before I went again, and
heard him say it several times after, which was
about the middle of June I think.
Marshal. Now I say, if this honourable
court will hut please to promise, that the wit-
nesses that come hither shall come and go safe,
I believe there are witnesses that may contra-
dict Dr. Gates.
L. C, J. What can your witnesses prove ?
you must not make bargains with the court.
Just. Pemberion'. Why should you suspect
that your witnesses should not go free ?
Marshal. Because some have received great
abuses.
Just. Atkins, It was* so said, but not made
out.
Just. P ember ton. There was only one per-
son that came here, aud affirmed so, but he
did not prove it.
Recorder, And the court did say that they
should be punished that did it.
L. C. J. The witnesses none of them, (hat I
know of, were abused.
Bed low. It was only the king's witnesses that
have been abused.
L. C. J. What can your witnesses prove ?
Marshal. lie came over the 24th of April,
and I can prove that from thetbeginning of
April, to the end of July, I was not within
threescore miles of London.
Oatet. As to his officiating as a priest, I can-
not speak positively as to the time, but I think
in last summer was twelvemonth.
Just. Dolben. He says, he thinks he did once
in that time, but he is sure that he did see you
several times that summer.
Marshal. But what part of the summer?
Oates. From the time of my coming over
again, to the time of the discovery of the Plot.
X. C. J. When was it that you heard him
first ?
Oates. When I heard him first was in 1677,
before I went into Spain : I went away in the
month of April, and I am sure he said mass
before I went into Spain ; and when I came
back again in the winter, I came in November,
and staid in town about ten days, and then went
to the Savoy, and heard him say mass.
Marshal. What November ?
Oates, Before the summer I came out of
Flnnders.
L, C. J. He says he went iuto Spain in
April, (77.)
Marshal. And he heard me say mass before
he went over? — Oates, Yes.
. Marshal. Pray look, my lord, Mr. Oates
will confess himself, he .was but newly recon-
ciled to the church of Rome, a little while be-
fore he went.
Oates. I was reconciled to the church on
Ash- Wednesday, and I went in April following.
Martfial. Where did you hear me say mass
then r
Oates. In the Savoy, at that time, before I
went into Spain,
Marshal. Do you pretend to have known
the Savoy ever before your comiog back again?
Oates, Yes, I do.
Just. Pemberion. He does swear it.
Marshal. So he does, but he cannot prove it.
Mr. Oates came over in the company, as he
says, of Mr.Thimbleby and Mr. Hitchcock, and
by his means he did get to be commended to
he received into the order of the Benedictines,
and he was then sent to Mr. Pickering in order
to it; Now, my lord, is it credible that Mr.
Oates having no acquaintance with the Savoy
before he had acquaintance with Mr. Hitch-
cock, which was when he came from Spain,
should hear me say mass before we went thither?
Just. Pemberion. All this is but a story to tbe
court.
L. C. J. What a wild inference do you make
from this unintelligible business ?
Mars/Ml. Mr. Oates says so himself.
Just. Dolben. We all know you said mass so
openly in the Savoy, that any people whatso-
ever might come, and you did not know who
they were.
L. C. J, Though he was not one of your
order, yet he might know you.
Marshal. To my knowledge there were never
three masses said in the world at the Savoy.
Dolben. The world knows the contrary.
Marshal. Let Mr. Oates be positive in any
thing, and we will disprove- him.
Just. Pemberion. lie hath gone as near it as
is necessary ; he tells you, after bis reconcilia-
tion, before he went over iAto Spain.
Marshal. But I say, he could not be at
the Savoy before he was acquainted there, and
I can bring witnesses to prove, that I was not
then at the Savoy ; but . I pray, my lord, will
these witnesses do me any good ?
L. C. J. What will they prove ?
Marshal, That all tbe summer from the be-
ginning of April to the end of summer, I was
in the country, threescore miles from Loudon.
Oates, I am not so positive in that, my lord,
but as near as I remember, before I went into
Spain again. Your lordships all know that I
was not so positive as to any one time ; but
the summer before the plot broke oat, I heard
him say mass several times in the summer.
L. C. J. Now he is positive that he saw you
say mass in* the summer before the plot was dis-
covered. The substance of his deposition was
your saying mass, the time is not material : lit
tells of a marry times within that compass.
Marshal. How shall I disprove that ?
Recorder. He hath given you one particular
time from Ash- Wednesday, . when he was re-
conciled to Rome, till he went to Spain iii
April.
Marshal. If he names times, then I am able
to disprove him : And he did name one, but
when he saw me offer to prote by witnesses,
that I was not then in town, he goes off
from it.
Jusf. Pemberton. It is impossible for wit-
nesses to be positive to a day, a week, or such
a thing,
Just. Ellis. How is it possible to be so, unless
it be a thing that he had taken such particular
H53] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles H: 1G80.— attil others, for High Treason. . [864
notice of, a? to intend to swear to it, and give
evidence about it afterwards ? Now, I believe
Dr. Oates at that time had no thoughts of
giving evidence as to any such matter ; but this
lie is positive in, that he did hear you say mass
at the Savoy.
Marshal. My lord, if Mr. Oates had said he
had seen me officiate at Somerset-House or
Wild-house, it might have been something like ;
but at the Savoy it is known, that none are let
in but friends, nor could Mr. Oates come in
but upon a particular acquaintance.
L. C. J. How does that appear so?
Marshal, By those that live in the house.
Just. Pemberton. You must not spend the
court's time in this manner of discourse : If you
have any witnesses that you think in yourself
are material, the court will suffer you to call
them and pray call them presently.
Marshal. Here is the house-keeper herself
that will witness that she never saw Mr. Oates
there.
L. C. J. If the great Turk had come there
with a pair of beads and a crucifix, you would
have let him come in : But in the meantime,
Air. Oates, you have given him a pretty com-
pass of time, whereby he hath an opportunity
of disproving what you say: And you give him
one particular short time ; but can you give
any time afterwards in the summer you speak
of, within any month, or two, or three ; be-
cause you say at several times ?
Oates. I cannot be positive, but I will tell
yon one time was the Sunday before they held
their conspiracy, which was, I verily believe,
the Sunday before the 31st of August.
L. C. J. Do you believe it was in August?
Oates. Yes, I do, and confine myself to the
jDontb of August.
Marshal. Then call Ellen Rigby.
Oates. I was acquainted with Mr. Pickering
soon after my being reconciled ; and being ac-
quainted with him, 1 went along with him seve-
ral times to the Savoy.
Just. Pemberton. What do you talk of one
Hitchcock, and I know not whom ? he was ac-
quainted with Pickering before.
Marshal. When, my lord ?
L. C. J. Presently after he was reconciled. -
Marshal. Well, but you pretend now, that
since you came over here you were in the Savoy;
Had you a key to get in ?
L. C. J. He was reconciled on Ash Wednes-
day, he went in April to Spain. «
Marshal. Here is Ellen Rigby.
L. C. J. Well, what would you have with
her?
Marshal. I ask, Did she ever see Mr. Oates
in the summer before last ?
Just. Pemberton. Don*t you lead your wit-
ness with such questions. ^
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Oates ?
Rigby. I have seen him when 1 saw him
come to ask charity of Mr. Pickering.
L. C. J. How often ?
Rigby. Twice or thrice.
L. C. J. What time in the summer ?
'Rigby. I cannot say ; but I saw him in sum-
mer was twelvemonth.
'Oates. Why then did not this woman, when
she knew this-evidence that would lay a blemish
upon me, come and give it for Pickering, to
have saved him ?
Just. Dolbcn. Will you give me leave to ask
this woman this question ; Whether she ever
heard you say mass ?
Marshal. Ay, my lord, with all my heart;
and if she says she hath, I will be hanged with-
out any more ado.
Just. Dolbcn. Then you are sure your pro-
selytes will say nny thing you would have them ?
Marshal. I myself am a perfect stranger to
the Savoy in a manner.
Just. Pemberton. Is he not acquainted with
the Savoy?
Rigby. Yes, he was- there one month wberi
Pickering was taken.
Marshal. Pray ask her whether ever, before
Mr. Oates went over, she saw him in the
Savoy ?
L. C. J. You shall have your question asked ;
but do jou think you can build upon that; if
she did not see him, he did not see you ? Did
you ever see Dr. Oates there Betwixt March
and April, before he. went over into Spain ?
Rigby. No, there was nobody in the house
but Mr. Pickering.
L. C. J. Was there never mass said in the
house?
Rigby. Yes, while lier ronjesty's servants
were in the house.
L. C. J. But was there mass never said
since in the house ?
Rigby. Never since I came out of it, which
was a twelvemonth ago.
Just. Pemberton. Was there not mass said in
three or four years time there ?
Rigby. Not in our house, 1 lived but in one
house.
Marshal. I call her to know, whether Dr.
Oates was there ? And, my lord, here is that
which I insist upon ; That none is let in there
to hear mass, but those that have some par-
ticular acquaintance and intimacy in the house.
L. C. J. She only speaks to one particular
part of the house ; she cannot but say mass
was said in the other parts.
Rigby. There was no mass said there, that 1
know of. '
L. C. J. Why, was there no mass said but in
that particular house you lived in ?
Rigby. I cannot say that.
L. C. J. But the question is, Whether ever
you, Mr. Oates, saw him say mass in this
woman's house ?
Oates. I do not know that I ever saw this
woman in all my life,. before the trial.
Marshal. He came there under a disguised
name.
L. C. J. He tells you he went along with
Pickering.
Oates. Pickering served the mass.
L. C. J. Well, call your witnesses, if you
have any other.
SM] -STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Chahlej II. 1680.— Trial if Lbnd Andersm, [*6C
Just Jonts. There were two positive witnesses
as positive as could be in the world, and no-
thing at all to contradict them.
Recorder. Will you give the jury leave to
believe you, Mr. Marshal ? For you yourself
said you were a priest.
Marshal. Yes, if I said so, I humbly desire
the jury to take notice of it, that they are the
self-same witnesses thai brought such a positive
testimony the last time; which if the jury bad
believed, they must of necessity have brought
me in guilty ; I would not spend the time of
the court, but I would observe this; it was 'all
sworn positively,1 that I did consent to the king's
death and other things.
L. C. J. You had the better luck.
MarthaL Them they are not to be believed
now.
L. C. J. This is to no purpose, neither is it
to be suffered : For you break in contrary to
all the laws of practice, if we suffer this as an
argument, that because an evidence was nut
believed in one case, therefore he is perjured :
And ithejury gave in a verdict contrary to the
witnesses, that therefore be is perjured in soo-
ther case.
MarthaL This does invalidate the testimony
sure of such a witness.
L C. J. You have said it often enough,
come pray conclude.
Just. Pemberton. No, Mr. Marshal, yoo
must not be suffered, in these harangues to im-
peach the witnesses ; if yon have any thing ma-
terial against Dr. Oates, or if you can shew asj
record of his conviction of perjury, it may be
something.
Marshal. My lord, it is for my life, and it is
the second time that I plead for my life, much
beyond my expectation ; and therefore I hope
I mav have the freedom to speak : And
though I confess this jury is not obliged to pro-
ceed according to the verdict of the former
jury; yet this jury, as well as that, is obliged
to proceed according to the appearance of
truth: And his being found false in his testi-
mony the hist time, should make him of no cre-
dit here.
Just. Dolben. It is not so, they are not to
take notice of it unless you bring them • re-
cord of conviction.
Just. Pemberton. He. gave a good evidence
then no doubt of it, though they would not be-
lieve it.
Just. Atkins. Upon what grounds that jury
went, is unknown to us.
Marshal. Then, my lord, another thing »
this: The law does except against all witnesses
who are strongly or rationally supposed to have
a spite or malice against the prisoner, mock
more where there is a manifest sign that ;l*
hath a malice. Now I will endeavour to shew
how it conies to my case : Mr. Oates •w*?e*
me last time of treason, and that in the high-
est nature; if this bad been true, he had shown
himself a good subject, and me disloval: A«a
the jury not believing him, I was found U*
good subject : Now be pursues hit malice.
Marshal. I can prove that I was out of town
the whole summer, from the beginning of April
so the end of the summer : But if Mr. Oates
will not stand to any time, I cannot be able to
disprove him : But then 1 will only oiler one
or two things more.
X. C. J. When did you come to London ?
in August?
'Marshal. I will tell you as near as I can to
a day. I came in the middle of Bartholomews-
fair, which begins the 24th of August.
L. C. J. So it was the latter end.
Just. Pemberton. Well, if you have any wit-
nesses, call them, and do not spend the Court's
time in vain.
Marshal. My lord, I have something very
material, I think, to offer : The only material
witness (hat is now against me, was a witness
against me in my last trial : Now I do con-
ceive, that I being found Not Guilty at the last
trial, that witness ought to he looked upon as
perjured : And I appeal to the Court, whether
it n ere so or no.
Just. Atkins. That is a false collection, Mr.
Marshal.
L. C. J. It is a strange inference you make :
Do you think that every witness is perjured,
because the jury do not find according to what
be says ? He is not perjured, for he may swear
true, and the jury not believe him.
Marshal. I ground it, my lord, upon what
my lord Jones said to the jury that sat upon
Coleman ; who at their going out toid them,
either (hey were to rind him guilty, or bring iu
two men perjured. Thus it was his opinion,
that the muling of the jury contrary to the evi-
dence,, did make them perjured ; and there was
none of the Court did oppose him.
Just. Jones. What then ?
Marshal. And if this were the sense of the
whole court, That a man must either be found
Guilty, or the witnesses perjured ; that is my
case, and he is not to be believed.
L. C. J. See how uncousequentially you
talk : The court might say, that you must be-
lieve these men perjured, if they swear a posi-
tive thing and you find it not : But if you make
use of it thus, that therefore they are perjured
it is false, for they not so till they be convicted,
upon record: And though the jury don't be-
lieve them, yet they may swear true.
Marshal. It is true.
L. C. J. Then you make no inference from it.
Marshal My lord, lam before the same
court that I was tried by before and before the
selfsame judges, who know that upon my trial
he was not believed, and therefore is perjured.
Just. Pemberton. You must consider that
sometimes the jury wiHgo against the direction
of the court ; but if the witness be not believed
by them, that does not argue that he does not
swear truth, or is perjured : I tell you my bro-
ther Jones might say, you must find this man
guilty, or think these men perjured : many
times a judge will say so, but the jury often
find again** the direction of the court ; shall
these men be perjured then presently? •
857 J STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. it)80 — and ethers, for High Treason. [S58
L, C J. Von shell not £0 on in this manner
and make such notorious false inferences ; that
because it was not found according to his testi-
mony, therefore he is perjured : The jury did
not believe it, might not he speak true for all
that? Hath not many a witness sworn true,
yet the verdict gone against their evidence?
And therefore you don't mind : Ye are all
giddy headed, if yon once get a thing into your
heads, you can't set it out again.
Just. Atkins. If the jury did not believe it, a
great many others did.
L.C. J. All you build upon is but a false
conclusion-; because the jury found you not
guilty, therefore they found him perjured.
Marshal. My lord— -r—
Just. Petnberton. Pray sir, if, you will speak
any thing that is material and modest, the
court will admit of it ; but if ypu only go to
throw dirt upon the king's witnesses, men of
good reputation, and men that have shewed
thems< Ives honest, and that have spoke truth all
along ; never a one of their testimonies hut
what is confirmed by another's ; so that not one
of them stands single, and for you to say they
axe ill men.
Marshal. My lord, I do not say they are ill
■sen, I speak of matter of fact.
X. C. J. You conclude falsely; and if you
did but mind it, you would never repeat it over
and over again: That because the jury did not
believe his cridence, therefore he is perjured :
Do you suppose tbeu that any other jury should
never believe him?
Marshal. My lord, I reckon his evidence
is not so good; and if 'I am found Not Guilty
there must be malice in him to accuse me.
L. C. J. Look you, gentlemen, the single
question is, whether be be a Romish priest or
no ? It is proved by Mr. Outes, that he hath se-
veral times heard him say mass, that he hath
seen him deliver the sacrament, and seen him
consecrate the host. He insisted upon it how
often ; Mr. Oaies says, ten or u dozen times,
in what time he cannot charge himself particu-
larly with a month or two ; but at last he did
tell him positively, because Marshal said, how
is it possible I can make my defence to gener-
als, unless you fix some lime ? therefore, says
be, I was reconciled to the church of Rome on
Asa- Wednesday, and afterwards between that
and April, when I went into Spain, I heard
him say mass, that was once ; but I beard him
say in the summer several. times : being asked
what part ? he says, I cannot say exactly, but I
think in the month of August ; if he had said
any thing as to the particular time between
Ash-Weduesday and his going into Spain, it
had been something, but against that he makes
no pretence, as to his saying mass in the Savoy
that can contradict it. If he can still he shall
call his witnesses that can prove he did not say
mass between the Ash-Wednesday and the
April he went into Spain : he does indeed say,
that be was a great part of the summer in the
country, in June and July to Bartholomew-
fair, threescore miles off; but to that Mr. Oates
says it was some time in August, and so he
might be in the country till then, and yet say
massnfter; he might come to town the 26ih,
or 27th, or 28th, and he might be here in
August : so you hear no evidence that
contradicts, supposing it proved true, what
he imagines his witnesses can say ; the last
time that he charges him to have said it in the
summer, may be true according to his own
word and confession when he came to
town. Then there is Mr. Bedlow, he only
tells you he saw him in a priest's habit, but
he did not see him execute the office of a
priest, but lie looked upon him . as a priest,
called him father : and that is all that he
charges him with ; that is concurring evi-
dence, and backs Mr. Oates, but alone
perhaps it would be very weak. But they
set up here Praunce, and he says directly
that at the trial he did confess himself to be a
priest ; and he seems to deny it, and would
appeal to the court ; but his appealing to the
cvurt would not help him in that case. 6o I
leave this to you upon this evidence; if yon
believe Mr. Oates, that swears he saw him be-
foi » he went into Spain, and after, say mass
with the concurring evidence of Mr. Bedlow,
that saw him in his habit, and with the subse*
quent evidence of those twjo more that do
swear that he did say so, you must find him
Guilty : and a man's own confession is evidence
against himself; and if Mr. Marshal will re-
collect himself, he would not be too positive in
that point. If all these particulars satisfy your
conscience, I say, that he is a Romish rriest,
you must find him Guilty ; if you are unsatis-
fied, you must acquit him.
CI. of Cr. Set William Russel to the bar.
William Russel, alios Napper, hold up thy hand :
You that are sworn, look upon the prisoner,
and' hearken to his cause, &c.
Mr. Belwood. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, William Rus-
sel, alias Napper, stand's indicted for High-Trea-
son: the offence charged in the indictment, is,
That being born within the kingdom of Eng-
land, and having received orders from the see
of Rome, he did come and abide here. To
this he hath pleaded, Not Guilty.
Serj. Strode. Swear Dr. Oates, and Mr.
Prauuce. Dr. Oates, will you tell my lord and
the Jury, what you know of Mr. Russet's being
a priest ?
Oates. My lord, this Russel went by the
name of Napper, and is a Franciscan Frier, and
I heard him say mass several times at Wild-
house.
L. C. J. What, in bis habit ?
Oates. In priest's habit.
L. C. J. When was this ?
Oates. The last summer before the Plot ; I
have heard him twenty times sing mass.
Justice Jones. Did you ever see him give the
Sacrament ?
Hussel. Where pray was this ?
Oates. At Wild-house.
&5U] STATE TRIALS, 51 Chaulbs II. J 680 — Trial oj Lionel Anda son, [60(1
X. C. Baron. What say you to the string
mass at the time Dr. Oates speaks of?
Russel. I believe he is mistaken as to the
time and year : I was entered into the house in
1678.
Just. Pemberton. Then you think it was at
another time.
Russel. He could not hear me at that time,
for I was then in [he country.
X. C. J. Have you any thing to say ? It
shall he allowed you, it was at another time, but
it seems it is true. Look you, gentlemen, you
have a very plain business of it ; here are two
witnesses that swear they saw him give abso-
lution, deliver the sacrament, and heard him
say mass, and one says twenty times : and sir
W. Waller, who sajs, that he confest U>e priest's
habit to be his own.
Russel. Consider my circumstances, and give
me a little time ; I have not had any time to
get my friends near me, or to prepare myself.
X. C. J. I do not see any good time would
do you : I think the best use you can make of
your time is to repent.
Oatei. My Lord, the court liere is pestered
with papists; here are a great many about
here.
X. C. J. If they be witnesses, we cannot keep-
them out.
Bed low. Some of them may be witnesses,
but all are not; and if they be, they come to
catch advantages.
Just. Dolben. I don't understand why they
should be turned out.
Justice Pemberton. Let them alone : be at
quiet.
X. C. J. No, no, they will revile us, that they
had not an open and a fair hearing ; we won't
have it said, that we do any thing in hugger-
mugger ; what we do is done openly and ho-
nestly.
CI. of the Cr. SetCharles Parris, aliasPany,
to the bar. Hold up thy hand: You that are
sworn, &c.
Mr. Belwood. May it please your lordship
and you gentlemen of the jury ; the offence for
which the prisoner at the bar stands indicted,
is High-Treason, the same offence for which
the rest have been indicted—
L, C. J. Then call your witnesses.
Serj. Strode. Dr. Oates, and Mr. Praunce.
[Who were sworn.]
X. C. J. What can you say against the pri-
soner, as to his being a priest ?
Oates. My Lord, he is a reputed priest, »»<>
hath said mass several times : I have beard him
say mass at Wild- house, not in the public cha-
pel, but in another room.
X. C. J. Where do you say?
Oates. Once at Wild-house.
X. C.J. Where else?
Oates. At Mr. Paston's. >
X. C. J. When was this, win per or summer.
Oates. Within thecompass o/a year, reckon-
ing 1677 and 1678; it was on a Satoroty *nf
Rustfl. What is his name ?
X. C. J. Oates.
Rmsel. I do not know him, I say, my lord.
X. C. J. Did he do it publicly ?
Oates. Yes, in the chapel.
Justice Jones. Did he give the Sacrament ?
Oates. Idid receive the Sacrament from him.
Russel. Why first of all, I say I do not
know him.
X-C. J. It mav be so, more know Jack Pud-
ding, than Jack Pudding knows.
Russel. Well, then, if one witness must stand
I have no more to sav.
X. C. J. Will you ask him any questions ?
Russel. He says he heard me a month ago.
X. C. J. No ic was last summer was twelve-
month.— Russel. Then he must prove it.
Capt. Richardson. He does prove it, he
swears it.
Russel. Well, I can make it appear, last
summer was twelvemonth*I-was in the country.
Oates. And I heard him say mass, Novem-
ber, 1677, he was then one of the Chaplains of
Wild-house.
Russel. Give me leave to recollect my me-
mory.
Mr. Belwood. Set up Mr. Praunce. You
hear the question : sir, is the prisoner at the
bar a priest ?
Praunce. Yes, I have heard him say mass
twenty times in his habit.
X. C. J. Did he give the Sacrament ?
. Praunce. Yes, I saw him give the sacrament
to several, and he did hear confessions ; he had
a great many people about him.
Russel. When was this ?
Praunce. Two or three years ago.
Russel. Where?
Praunce. At the Spanish Ambassador's at
. Wild-house.
Att. Gen. My Lord, liere is sir William Wal-
ler, that took him, with his vestments and allN
bis trinkets. [Who was sworn.]
X. C. J. Come what say you, sir William ?
Sir W. Waller. That morning I took him,
as soon as I came into the room, I asked htm his
name : he told me his name was Russel : I
asked aim, if he ever went by any other name?
He denied it for some time, but looking amongst
some of his papers, I found some letters directed
to him by the name of Napper ; and then he did
confess his name was William Kussel Napper.
Searching among his clothes, I found some re-
ligious habits; I asked him, if they were his, '
and he confessed and owned them to be his.
Russel. It was in my custody ; it was none
of mine.
X. C. J. Why did you say so then ? <.
Russet. I kept it for another.
X. C. J. But you told him it was your own,
What say you to that ?
Russel. I do not remember that.
Just. Dolben. Well, he swears it.
X. C J. Here are two positive witnesses
against you, what say you to it? What say
you to his saying, be hath heard you say mass
twesty times ?
bGl] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1680.— ami others, for High Treason. [SGI
Parry. I do not know this nan. » '
Praunce. You were several timet with me.u
L.C.J. Why, have you forgot the chalice
you brought to bit house ?
Parry. I have no reason to forget my* If,
for 1 never did any such thing, for I never
bought or sold to him any chalice, or any such
thing ; and besides, suppose I had, thattdotk
not argue that I am a priest. i
L. C. J. No, but if be were so holy as to
touch Che chalice, he would be a prievt. But
there is do great stress laid upon that, but to
shew you that he knows you, lie did not mis-
take the man. The stress of the evidence lies,
that he heard you say mass at the Venetian
ambassador's, and at Paston's, and then Dr.
Oates speaks of Wild- house.
Parry* Ijyjisj^exer in my life at the Vene-
tian ambassador's, npr at Mr. Paston's, nor at
Wild-hoaa*. «r • t
L. C. f. <3an Jou swear that he is the man *
L. C. J« TheAjetbim aside.
Bed low. I had oWerto send for two witnesses
outofMo6ino«tMiiae*4-4-. * •
Ja. C. /.. {fane fcfKaof enough; •
Justice P<wite7tf(fc.^WjMU^aate~ you to say
for yourself?
Parry. I have this tor toy, and can shew it
evidently, that is, I have'witnesses to prove,
that I never was at . VViid-house to officiate in
the years 1677 mi Vttfci before the Plot : and
for these six or seven months that Mr. Praunce
does alledge I was in London, I was in the
country.
L. C. J. When ? .
Parry. Six or seven months before the Plot ?
._ L. C. J. He did not confine himself pre-
cisely to any six or seven months.
Parry. My lord, I desired him to fix upon a
month.
Justice Pemberton. lie cannot do it.
L. C.J. If he can, let him ; we wilt ask him
the question ; when was it that you saw him do
thus ?
Praunce. My lord, I am not certain' what
time it was, but about two, or two years and an
half, ago, I am not certain, it is impossible for
me to remember it.
Justice Pemberton. You most take him in
what he says ; this he is sure of, he did hear
you say mass and give the Sacrament, but as
to the time, he believes it to be about this
time, but he is not positive nor can be in it.
Parry. He only believes it now, because ha
knows I have witnesses for that time : he hath
sworn it positively, it was six or seven months
before the Plot, and I have witnesses to pro-
duce, can prove bow long before the Plot I
was in the country.
L. C. J. Call your witnesses.
Parry. Call Lanscroon and Jacob.
L. C. J. How long was it before the Plot,
as near as you can tell the time, Mr. Dates ?
Oatet. I have heard so many priest*, chat I
cannot possibly give an account of the day.
Parry. I desire to know of Mr. Gates, who
time, and twice at Mr. Paston's, and once or
twice I cannot tell which, at .the other place.
X. C. J. And in the priest's habit ?
Gates. Yes, in the priest's habit.
L. C. J. And did you see him consecrate the
host? — Oates. Yts.
L. C. J. And give the sacrament ?
Oates. Yes.
Parry. My Lord, as to that be speaks of
1677, or 1G78, what mouth of 1678 I desire to
know.
Oates. I cannot confine myself to a month ;
I knew hinv to be a priest, but I was little'
acquainted with -him, but be was a reputed
priest.
Ju*t4ce Jones. But you are sure this is the
man ?
Oates. Yes, this is the man.
Parry. Am I the man ? What is my name ?
Oates. You went by the name of Johnson.
L. C. J. Did you never go by that name of
Johnson ?
Parry. No, my Lord, but , by this name of
Parry ; Parry is my name, and by that name I
went, and never by any other name than Parry,
whatever he says.
L. C. J. Why by that same name you are
indicted, and you are the man that he saw.
Just* Pemberton. Will you ask him ever a
question ?
Parry. I have asked him already what I
fcvould ask him.
Sir John Keiling. Then set up Mr. Praunce.
X. C. J. What do you say as to Mr. Parry ?
Praunce. I know he is a priest, and have
heard him say mass at the Venetian Ambassa-
dor's, and at Mr. Paston's, and he went by the
same of Johnson.
Recorder. Did you go by that name ?
Parry. No, I never went in my life hut by
my own name, Parry ; that is my nane, what-
ever he says, and I am npt ashamed of it.
L. C. J. How often ?
Praunce. Once at Pastons', and two or three
times at the Venetian ambassador's.
X. C. J. And you saw him give the sacra-
ment ?
Praunce. Yes.
L. Q. J. In his habit ? — Praunce. Yes.
Parry. At what time ?
Praunce. I believe it might be half a year
before the Plot : and I know you by another
circumstance: you brought a chalice to my
house, a*nd it was whole, and you broke it, and
told me, I must not touch it until it was broke,
and so you defaced it.
L. C. J. That was an holy vessel, was it
not?*
Praunce. Yes ; and he told roe I must not
touch i i till it was broken in pieces.
L. C. J, If you bad not been a priest, be had
been as holy as you, and he might have touched
it as well as you.
L. C. Baron. His breaking was to dese-
crate it.
Praunce. He bought some oil-boxes, of me
<*bout thai time. .
503] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. WW.— Trial qf Lionel Andtrscm,
was ambassador at Wild-house at that time
when he says he heard me.
Recorder. Were you never at Paston's ?
Parry. No.
Recorder. Nor at the Venetian resident's ?
Parry. No.
Recorder. Mr. Parry was not, but Mr. John-
ton was.
Parry. I know not Mr. Johnson, ray name
i* Parry ; I hope it is not just I should be
hanged for another person.
Recorder, I mean Mr. Johnson, alias Parry.
L. C. J. Mr. Praunce, you are sure that is
the man ? *
Praunce. Yes, and I heard him confess him-
self to be a priest.
Parry, It is false.
v L. C. Baron. And this is the man that
brought the chalice to you,
JL C. J. Why, diet you never go with a
chalice to this man, and break it ?
Parry. My lord, I never bought any thing of
him, nor sold any thing to him, nor had aoy
converse with him. ;
Sir John Keiling. I do never wonder at their
denying any thing. I would fain know whe-
ther he would not deuy the sun shines now
or no ?
Parry. And then for the private room, what
room #f the house was it ?
Praunce. I took him up in the middle of
Cheapside, and therefore I must sure know
him- *
Parry. He did not know me, but only took
me on suspicion at random, because I was in
the company of a Roman Catholic.
Then the witness Lanscroon stood up.
L. C. J. What would you have this man
nskedi
Parry. About the year 1677 and 1678,
wherein Mr. Oates alledges he heard me, let
them answer to that, how long I was at Wind-
sor ? And whether I did not dwell constantly
there?
JL C. J. Well, you hear the question. How
long was he at Windsor ?
Lanscroon. From what time do you ask ?
Justice Pemberton. Nay, you must not be
led into an answer. How lung was he at
Windsor ?
Lanscroon. From Christmas 1677, to Allhal-
laotide 1678.
Justice Ellis. And was he never at London
all that time?
Lanscroon. No.
Justice Pemberton. How can you teH that ?
Justice Atkins. Was he always in your sight
•U the time?
Lanscroon. Yes, he was there always.
Justice Atkins. Were you there always your-
self?
Lanatroon. Yes.
L. C. J. What are you ?
Lsmscroonn A painter.
L.C.J. And was you tad 1st always toga-,
that at that time ?
[854
Lanscroon. Yes.
L. C. J. What in a room ?
Lanscroon. Yes.
L. C. J. Can you affirm, that for a twelve-
month together, you saw him every day ?
Lanscroon. Yes.
Recordir. How many years ago do you
speak of ?
Lanscroon. From 1677 to 1678.
Recorder. I do not ask you that, but how
many years ago it is ?
L. C. J. When came he down to Windsor f
Lanscroon. Christmas (1677.)
L. C. J. The testimony of Mr. Oates goes
to November, and he speaks of Christmas fol-
lowing.
Recorder. How many years ago was it, I
ask?
Lanscroon. A year ago last Christmas.
Recorder. That is 1678 and 1679.
Justice Pemberton. Your witness is under-
stood, Mr. Parry.
Then stood up the other witness Jacob.
L. C. J. What say you about Mr. Parry's
being at Windsor ?
Jacob. He was a gentleman that came along
with roe in the coach to Wiudsor.
JL C. J. When ? *
Jacob. Before Christmas (1677.)
L. C. J. How long before ?
Jacob. Teu days. He came there to take air
for his health, be was not well.
L. C. J. How long staid he there ?
Jacob; He staid at Windsor till Allh&Iiantide
after, he staid there a year.
L. C. J. Did you see him there every day of
that year ?
Jacob. Yes. '
L. C.J. Why, what reason had you to see
him every day ?
Jacob. He dined every day at our house.
L. C. J. Your bouse ? What house?
Jacob. The painter's.
Justice Dotben. However, that is but from
Christmas, and he speaks of November before.
L. C. J. Did he dine there all that time ?
Jacob. Yes.
JL C. J. Did he dine there every Friday
constantly ?
Jacob. Yes.
L. C. J. Did he never keep a fast in all that
time?
Jacob. No.
L. C. J. Did he dine a Wednesdays and
Fridays ? — Jacob. Yes.
L. C. J. There was one Good-Friday in that
time.
Oates% Pray ask this witness if he nerer
heard him say mass?
Justice Dolben. Then he must be sworn,
and may be he will deny it.
JL C. J. Did he dine of Ash Wednesday and
Good-Friday ?
Jacob. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. So, he says you eat of Good-Friday
and Ash Wednesday; the pope shall fcaow it.
4
M5] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chajilm II. 1080.— *W otkr$,/vr High Treason. [800
Recorder. What say yon? Did he eat flesh
«pon those days ?
Jacob. Yes, he did.
X. C. /. You can tell what he did eat, can
you?
Recorder. Did he eat beef, or mutton ?
Justice J)itlben. Go, you talk like an idle
boy.
L. C. J. He tells you, that you eat meat too,
that is more.
Parry. My lord, we eat fish, and such things
all Catholics do.
Recorder. Ay, the priests do, but their pupils
do not, they will not allow it to them.
JL C. /. Well, have you done, have you any
snore witnesses.
Parry. I would ask Mr. Oates, and desire
him to answer me to .it, what did he depoje
against me before my lord Shaft* bury, viz. That
lie beard me say mass in Wild-Chapel, and there
heard Mr. Collins's confession, ana now he says,
it was in a private room ; new I have it to
shew that I did not officiate there, nor frequent
the house.
X. C. J. Who is that will prove that you did
not come to the bouse?
Parry. The ambassador's servants.
L. C. J. I do not understand what you
snean.
Pany. I am to ask of Mr. Oates, and desire
lie should answer to it, What he did depose be-
fore my lord Shafts. bury and the committee of
lords, touching Mr. Collins ?
L. C. J. He cannot remember, it may be.
Justice Pemberton. You must not a»k such
questions as these are, it does not refer to this
matter.
Parry. He did give in, that I heard Mr. Col-
lius's confession, I ask, why be does not give it
in now?
L. C. J. That is a foreign matter, what have
we to do with it now ?
Justice Pemberton. If you will prove any
thing against him, you may, but you may not
ask such questions as that.
Parry. I have proved that I was in 1677,
and 1678, in the country.
Justice Pemberton. They tell us of ten days
before Christmas, and Mr. Oates speaks of No-
vember.
L. C. J. Look you, gentlemen of the jury,
here are two witnesses against him, Mr. Oates
and Mr. Prawnce—
Parry. My lord, I have one thing I desire to
he taken notice of, that is, this letter of the am-
bassador's, who upon the examination of all his
family does testify and declare, that I did never
officiate in any respect in his family.
L. C, J* It cannot be read.
Justice Pemberton. It is not any evidence.
Parry. How shall I clear myself, if the testi-
mony of the ambassador and his whole family
be not admitted?
Justice Atkins. It is a hard thing for yoa to
clear yourself.
L. 6. J. Why don't you bring them hither as
your witnesses ?
VOL. YII.
Recorder. Where is my lord ambassador,
why does not lie come hither ?
Parry. He hath left the kingdom.
Recorder. Then you may boldly say any
thing of him, and we cannot disprove you.
L. C. J. Is all bis family gone with him ;
Parry. There is but one remaining, I think
be is here.
L. C. J. Call him.
Parry. Monsieur Rivier. [Who appeared
and fctood up.l
L. C. J. What do you ask him ?
Parry. Do you know this hand, Sir. *
L. C.J. It must not be read if be do.
Parry. He is one of the servants to my lord
Egmqnd, and be lived in the house, and h«
knows that by his master's order all his do-
mestics were examined, aud all protested they
neither knew nor saw me ever in Wild-house;
all which I have under bis hand and seal to
shew.
L. C. J. It signifies nothing.
Justice Pemberton. Ask him any question,
but don't tell him what be knows.
L. C. J. Why don't you ask him some ques-
tions? Why, you have not catechisms in your
church, you don't know bow to ask questious.
Parry. Ask him whether he ever heard me
*ay mass at my lord ambassador's house ?
L. C,J. It is to no purpose if he did not, hero
are some have.
Parry. Then, my lord, he knows that there
was a strict examination at Wild-house by my
lord's orders, whether I did frequent the house,
and it was reported by them all I did not j and
they must know if ever I did officiate there, for
there is none admitted to say mass there, but
by order.
Justice Pemberton. Look you, Sir, do yon
know that Mr. Parry ever said mass at Wild-
house?
Rivier. No, my lord, I do not know it.
Justice Pemberton. It was in a private room,
Dr. Oates says.
Rivier. I never saw him there.
Justice Pemberton. If you a*k an hundred
here, they would say the same thing.
L. C. J. Come, when matters are plain it is
in vain to contend; here is the business, gentle*
men, here are Mr. Oates and Mr. Praunce, two
witnesses against Mr. Parry ; Mr. Oatessays, bs>
hath heard him say mass, one time at one place,
and twice or thrice at another. Mr. Praunce
hath heard him often, and Mr. Prgunce does
tell you plainly, that he cannot err, that lie h
not mistaken in the man, for he came to his
house with a chalice, aud broke it there, and he-
knew him so well, that meeting him by chance,
he took hhn up in the streets ; so if you be*
lieve them, they swear it positively, and you
must find it so.
Then the Lord Chief Justice went away.
Cl.qfCr. Set Henry Starkey to the bar.
Hold up thy hand, &c.
Mr. Belnood. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of (he jury, Henry Stagey
3K
•67 J STATE TRIALS, 91 Charles II. 16ZO.— Trial of Lionel Andersc*, [860
stands indicted for the like, offence with the other
prisoners; that he having received orders from
the see of Rome, came'into England, and this is
High-Treason; to^this he hath pleaded Not
Guilty ; we will prove it upon him. Swear Dr.
Oates and Mr. Praunce. [Which was done.]
Sen. Strode. Pray, Sir, will you tell ray lord
and the gentlemen of the jury, what do you
know of this Star key's being a priest?
Oates. My lord, Mr. Starkey is a priest, and
I once heard him say mnss%at Mr. Paston*s.
L. C. B. When was that? How long was it
ago?
Oates. It is about 3 years ago.
L. C. B. Did he/give the sacrament then, or
at any other time?
Oates. None received but himself.
Mr. Belu ood. Was he in priest's habit?
Oates. Yes.
L. C. B. Did he receive the Sacrament, and
consecrate the host ?
Oates. Yes, in both kinds.
L. C. JB. Will you ask him any questions?
Starkey. He toils me of priest's habits; what
are they, Sir ?
L. C. B. What habit had he on ?
Oates. A thing about his neck, and a surplice,
and n thing about his arm; he had a surplice
girt about him.
Starkey. I know you not; and I perceive
you neither know what a priest's habit is,
nor the difference between his habit and his
ornaments. A priest's habit is a cassock down
to the ground, and a side cloke ; the ornaments
of a priest are not a surplice, (as Oates says)
but an alhe that falls to the ground, and other
things besides (hat.
Justice Pemberton. You are well skilled in
h, I see.
Starkey. And how did you know that I said
mass ? Did you know that I took orders ? For
if I took no orders, it was no mass ; for it is
the priest makes the mass, and not the mass
the priest ; and then if I were no priest, it could
be no mass.
Justice Pemberton. That is a pretty argu-
ment indeed ! Do any but priests say mass ?
Starkey. I can bring an instance of a gentle-
mau in this town, a private layman, who said
mass about this town, and he was a Protestant,
and at'last he stole the chalice. (His name was
Gardener.)
• Justice Pemberton. He did well, did he not ?
Is that your use ?
Starkey. Yes, with such priests as he.
L. C. B. It is a great evidence this arguing
•f yours, if be did not swear it, that you are a
priest.
Starkey. I wonder that this gentleman
should so well remember me, I don't know
him.
Justice Pemberton. Do you think yon know
every one that bath seen you at mass ?
Sir John Keilinq. Set up Mr. Praunce. What
say you, Sir, to this ?
Praunce. My lord, I heard him say mass at
my lady Somerset's in LiDcolnVmn-Uelds, and
at Mr. Duncomb's/that taught school in Princes
street.
Starkey. As I hope for mercy from Almighty
God, I was never there in all my life, except
Pantiy, her house in Gloucestershire.
Praunce. Did yon know one Mr. Dnncomb
that is dead ?
Starkey. Yes.
Praunce. Weil, I heard you say mast at his
house.
Starkey. My lord, I was never at Mr. Dun-
comb's in my life, but at 3 or 4 o'clock in the
afternoon, and if I said mass there, it was over
a pot of ale.
Praunce. I have heard him say he sard mass
in the king's army.
Starkey. I know neither of these two fel-
lows. ' '
Recorder. Come, I would fain see wnetber
you priests and Jesuits can speak one word of
truth or no : Come, Mr. Starkey, did you ever
say mass in the army ?
Starkey. I never did ? but pray give me
leave to speak ; I appeared for the king, when
he had not above 500 men in appearance for
him ; I am but a younger brother, (second
brother to John Starkey of Darley in the coun-
ty of Chester, esq.) and yet with an annuity of
seven score pounds a year, which I bought, and
other monies which I bad, I spent above 4,000/.
in the king's service, which I bled for before I
had it, for I got it in another monarch's ser-
vice ; I lost my leg for him by a cannon-shot,
and so spent my estate to that degree, thai that
day when I received my sentence of banish-
ment, I had but three half crowns in the world,
which were given me that same morning by
two friends.
L. C. B. Mr. Starkey, you may urge this to
the king, for his mercy and clemency, it is no*
thing to the point here before the jury to be
tried. Whatsoever you have merited by your
services, you must apply yourself to the lung tor
his mercy, it is nothing here.
Starkey. Pray, my lord, give me leave to add
something more : I was banished for 14 years
into France, because I refused to take an en*
gagement never to bear arms again for the
king : I did discover to this king a plot design-
ed against his life, state and government : I
suffer to this day for it; and I delivered, iato
his own hand, 11 articles of high treason against
the plotters and their abetters.
L. C. B. You may lie a priest for all that.
Starkey. But, my lord, by the civil law it it
a conclusion, that although a man be a traitor,
and in the same plot, he is to he indemnified
for discovering the conspiracy against his prince;
much more for discovering another, that I was
not a party in.
Justice Pemberton. We have nothing to do
with that here, but whether you are a priest or
not.
Starkey. That I must leave to the proof.
L. C. B. Well then, 111 tell you, gentlemen,
this person is indicted for beiog a priest, and
I coming into England* For the point of hu bf
S09] STATE TWALS, 31 Cham.es II. 1080.— end others, firr High Treason. fgWI
iog a priest* you have heard two witnesses de-
pose ; and they both tell you, that they have
heard him say mast, as great au evidence of it
as can be, for none say mass but priests. Dr.
Oates tells you at M-r.'Paston's. Mr. Prauuoe
says at Mr. Paston's, at ray lady Somerset's,
and one Mr. Duncomb's, If you believe this,
you must find him Guilty.
Justice Atkins. And they speak too, to his
receiving the Sacraments in both kinds.
Starkey. If I was there, sure there was
somebody else besides myself I did not say mass
aloac ; produce but oue witness for you, then
I'll submit.
CI. of Cr. Set Alexander Lumsden to the
bar. Hold up thy hand, &c. Your charge is to
enquire of him as of your first prisoner, and
hear your evidence.
"Mr. Belwood.. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, Alexander
Lumsden, the prisoner at the bar, stands "in-
dicted for High Treason, for that lie being a
priest, and receiving orders from Rome, did
come here into England, and abide contrary to
the statute.
Sir John Kciling. Swear Dr. Oates, Mr.
Dugdale, and Mr. Praunce. [Which was done.]
X. C. B. Come, Dr. Gates, what say you to
this man?
Oates, I heard him say mass, he is a Domi-
nican friar, as I remember. . I beard him say
mass 20 times at Wild House.
X. C. B. And consecrate the host ?
Oates. Yes, and I received the Sacrament
Jrom him.
X. C. B. And saw him take confession ?
Oates. Yes.
Justice Pemberton. Will you ask him any
questions ?
Lumsden. What time was this, if it please
you, Sir ?
Oates. That summer that was before the
Plot broke out. Mr. Lumsden knows me well
enough.
X. G JB. Do you know him ?
Lumsden. Truly I do not know that ever I
saw him, or conversed with him in my life.
X. C. B. What say you, Mi. Dugdale?
Dugdale. My lord, I was at Whitehall that
day Mr. Lumsden was taken ; and by the im-
portunity of some friends I did go to him, but I
did not know him, but by discourse he did con-
fess himself a priest ; I asked if he was a Fran-
ciscan, he said be was a Dominican.
Oates. He is procurator-general of the king-
dom of Scotland.
Recorder. They have such a parcel of peo-
ple, and such names for them.
Serj. Strode. Mr. Praunce, what do you
know of Lumsden 's being a priest ?
Praunce. I know he is a priest, and have
beard him say mass several times at Wild
House.
X. C. B. Was he there in the habit ?
Praunce. Yes, and consecrated the host.
X. C. B. K How long since ?
Praunce. Two years since, I heard him £9
times.
X. C. B. Do you know what countryman lie
is?
Praunce* An Irishman, I think.
Oates. No, he is a Scotchmau, he will not
deny it.
X. C. Bl What countryman are you ?
Lumsden. A Srotohmau.
L.C.B. Of what part of Scotland ?
Lumsden. A berdeen .
X. C. B. Were you born there ?
Lumsden. Yes.
X. C. B. You have no more to say, have
you?
Lumsden. My lord, I am not here, I think,
to be my own accuser, I humbly conceive so,
v and whatsoever is against me must be proved,
not simply asserted : Tbey ought to give proofs
and reasons ; but so it is, it is but a simple
assertion what they say ; I desire they may
pcove it.
X. C. B. No, they need net ; it is sufficient
if they prove ii by such circumstances that the
jury are satisfied and convinced that it is true;
but it is not to be looked for, that no proof
should be given against the priest, but by them
that saw him receive orders.
Justice Atkins. It is impossible almost, to
prove that.
X. C. B. But if they prove the circum-
stances, that you have executed the office of a
priest by saying mass, which none does but a
priest, it is euough to guide them in their ver-
dict.
Justice Ellis. And tbey have proved that
which is next to a positive assertion.
X C. Baron. That need not be.
Just. Ellis. Bat let us not lessen our proof
neither.
Just. Pcmberton. You must consider that the
proof is certain ; for they have sworn an asser-
tive positive thing, which thing is enough to a
jury to prove you a priest, because none»ethers
but priests may do such things in your church,
as you have done : Therefore it is a good argu-
ment and evidence to conclude you a priest,
from this evidence that hath been given.
Oatet. 1 have heard him own himself a priest
twenty times.
Lumsden. The exercise of the priestly func-
tion is but a penalty of 200 marks.
X. C. Baron. Ay, that is, if the king will go
no higher ; But you are prosecuted upon ano-
ther law.
Just. Ellis. It is evidence, and a great evi-
dence, that which bath been given; for we
must go according to the nature of the thing:
It is impossible the act of parliament should be
put in execution, if they must prove they re-
ceived orders from the see of Rome : But when
they have proved those things done by any
roan, which none ought to do but a priest, ic
bath been in all times allowed to be a special
evidence.
Just. Pcmberton. It is a plain and sufficient
evidence*
671] STATE TRIALS, 3 1 Cm ables II. 1680.— Trial of Lionel Anderson, f87»
Just. Ellis. But if there were any need of
it, and you would have any more, he hath con-
fessed, upon the question asked him, Whether
he wa» a Franciscan ; No, he was a Dominican.
L. C. Baron. Have you done ? Then gentle-
men of the jury, you must not at this time of
the day be insnared by thut argument, That
there must be a positive proof of this reception
of orders from the church of Home, because it
% hath been all along accounted, and is an un-
doubted proof for your satisfaction, if it ap-
pears he hath exercised the offices of the func-
tion, those offices that are not done but by
priests : Now this hath been proved by two
witnesses, and by the confession of the priest
himself to Dr. dates and Mr. Dugdale: So I
must leave it upon the point of fact to you,
whether it be not sufficient proof. But this
case will differ from all the rest, and the court
is very tender in the case of life, that it should
be without all question what is determined;
therefore as to your enquiry for him, it must go
only whether he be a priest or no ; for the
others you must consider them as Englishmen,
and enquire of them as such : He is a Scotch-
man, as he says, and they say so too : Now
then there are some words in this statute,
whereupon the court hath conceived a doubt,
whether his case comes within them ; which
are the words about the king's dominions, which
now are far more enlarged than were those of
the queen when the statute was made; if then
you find him a priest, you must find the other
matter specially/
Just. Ellis. Look you, gentlemen, we are to
be of counsel for the prisoner : and it being
matter of law, we shall take time to advise upon
it before we give our opinions in it : but for the
matter of fact, I doubt not but you will find
that he is a priest ; and then the other matters
that he was born at Aberdeen in Scotland, and
the other matters you may find specially, there
needs no more.
Recorder. Swear an officer to keep the jury.
Who after the recess of a quarter of an hour,
returned into the Court, and having an-
swered to their names, and appointed
their foreman to give in their Verdict, he
delivered it thus :
CI. ofCr. Lionel Anderson, alias Munson,
bold up thy hand ; look upon the prisoner; how
say you, is he guilty of the high-treason where-
of he stands Indicted, or Not Ouilty ?
Foreman. Guilty.
Cl. of Cr. James Corker, hold op thy hand ;
How say you, is he guilty, &c.
Foreman. Guiltv.
Cl. o/Cr. Is W.Hiam Marshal guilty, &c
Foreman. Guilty.
CL of Cr. Is William Ruwel, alias Napper,
guilty* &c.
Foreman. Guilty.
CL ofCr. Is Charles Parry gnilty, fee.
Foreman, Guilty.
Cl. tf Cr. Is Henry Starkey guilty, &c.
Foreman. Guilty.
Cl. of Cr. Alexander Lumsden, bold up thy
hand : look upon the prisoner ; How say- yoe,
is he guilty of the high-treason whereof he
stands indicted, or Not Guiltv ?
Foreman. We find he is guilty of being a
priest, and born at Aberdeen in Scotland.
Just. Ellis. Read the notes to them.
Cl. ofCr. You find that Alexander Lumsden
is a Scotchman, of 58 years of age, born at
Aberdeen in the kingdom of Scotland, being
then under the dominions of kinp Charles the
first, and now under the dominions of our pre-
sent sovereign ; and in the reign oi the said
king Charles the first, and that at the tune in
the Indictment mentioned, he was a priest in
holy orders, by authority derived from the see
of Rome, pront in the Indictment : And that
he came and was remaining in England, prout
in the Indictment. But whether upon the
whole matter he be guilty of high- treason within
this law or not, you do not know, and crave the
opinion of the court.
Foreman. Yes.
CL of Cr. Then hearken to your Verdict, at
the court hath recorded it: You »ay, &c.
Recorder. Call for the executioner.
Then the Judges went off from the Bench, and
the Court proceeded to Judgment.
CLofCr. Set Lionel Anderson, alias Mun-
son, to the bar: Lionel Anderson, alias Man*
son, thou standest convicted of high* treason :
What canst tbou say for thyself, why judgment
should not pass upon thee to die according to
the law ?
Anderson. I can say this, I would have gone
out of England, bat the king kept me here,
telling me, I should not go ; and 1 had a pro-
tection from the council-board : The bishop of
London, when I was taken first, sent a letter
to sir Clement Armiger, that neither I n«* my
books should be meddled with, that I bad writ-
ten for the king and the government, for which
he conceived 1 might be excommuoicated at
Rome, and that I was then under a special
protection of his majesty and council; and
when I was again taken and put in custody of
the horse-guard, the duke of Monmouth seat
sir Thomas Armstrong to have me freed again :
I begged of the king that I might go, said I, I
will not expose the king to the worst of rab-
bles; but he told me, I should stay in England,
and Mr. Peter Welsh and f had orders from the
council, he one and I another, to stay.
Recorder. Foi that matter you may he as-
sured, I promise it you faithfully and publicly
that I will acquaint the king with what you
say-
Anderson. I thank you, Sir.
Recorder. For this court hath nothing to do
with that; the king is the proper judge of that
matter, to determine his own pleasure as he
thinks fit: Tie him up.
Anderson. Sir, I had no notice of my trial
but this morning : I sent to my lorcf Bridg-
water, to kndw when I should be tried, he teW
I should have ten days nQtice ef it; now I have.
873] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles IL 1080.— am* others Jor High Treason. [$74
witnesses to disprove Mr. Praiince's testimony;
for Mr. Oates, I own be bath heard me say
maw; but for Mr. Bedlow's testimony, as I
hope to see the face of my Almighty God, I
know him not: when I was taken, said be to
we, Mr. Anderson, let me see your protection,
and I shewed it hira; you have 'two names,
said he, 1 do not know whether it be you or
no. And then besides, these are not legal wit-
Recorder. Nay, that most not be allowed
yon to sny : you have been fairly heard and
tried; they were upon their oaths, and the
jury, twelve men upon their oaths, without any
exception made to them, ihey hitve convicted
you; therefore this is to calumniate the pro*
ceeriiogs of the court.
Anderson. I tell you this more ; they are not
the king's evidence properly; for (hey swe*r
lor themselves upon the account of benefit; if
any priest be convicted, they are to have so
much money.
Recorder. The court heard the evidence that
was given, and if you. will have it of the court,
the court does really oelieve them, and so did
the jury too.
Anderson. I am satisfied.
Recorder. Tie him up then.
Cl. ofCr. James Corker hold up thy hand:
g You stand convicted of High-Treason ; what
can you say for yourself, &c.
Corker. Nothing, but thot I refer myself to
God, my just Judge and Saviour.
Recorder. Tie him up.
CI. of Cr. William Marshal, hold up thy
band : Thou art in the same condition, what
aayest thou for thyself ?
Marshal. I have very little more to say than
what I have said already : I thought the law
bad not allowed any man to have been con-
demned upon the testimony of one witness, but
required two : Now there was but one positive
witness Mgainst me, the rest oxly said, I had
confessed myself to be a prieit ; two of them
did swear, they heard me confess it at my other
trial; if it had been at this trial it had bee n
another thing, and there had been some vali-
dity in the proof; but to say, they heard me
confess it at another time, I humbly conceive
according to the law, bears no force. X have
this further to add, his majesty, some years
ago, put forth a declaration under the Broad-
Seal, for a toleration of religion, and liberty of
conscience, whereby the Roman Catholic? had
the use of their religion in their private bouses.
Now I have been informed, that according to
law, whatsoever is put forth under the Broad-
Seal, must be recalled by something under the
Broad-Sea), or it remains in force ; which was
never done as to this declaration, and then
I lie under the protection of that declara-
tion.
Recorder. As for the first part, it is plain, to
the satisfaction of every body, that there hath
been two sufficient witnesses, uron whose testi-
timony you are convicted : for whether you were
isted the question or not, yet if you will say yon
are a priest, that confession of yours is evidence
against you, though you might possibly say so
without I eing asked the question.
Marshal, is it credible I should do so ?
Reorder. Yes, the jury believed it so.
Oates. Oue of the jury stood by and heard
the words.
Recorder. And now, because I will put it out
of all doubt, it is not the business nor the duty
of the court to give any evidence of any fact
that they know of their own knowledge, unless
they will be sworn for tbat purpose ; for though
they do know it in their own private consciences
to be true ; yet they are obliged to conceal,
their own knowledge, unless they will be
sworn as witnesses. But now you are convict-
ed, I must take the liberty to tell you, that at
your last trial you did own yourself to be a
priest, and I must put you in mind further of
something which you may very well remember;
when I detained you after your acquittal, and-
re-committed you when sir G. Wtfkeman waa
discharged, I did then tell you you have own-
ed yourselves to be priests, I was hound to
take notice of that confession of yours,
and therefore obliged to detain you; such a
token as tbat is may perhaps bring it to your
memory; but as it was hinted to you before,
you are a voluminous talker, and abundance
of things may drop out of your nioutu, that yoa>
don't consider before they are past.
Marshal. It is for my life, and therefore I
may he permitted to *peak sure.
Recorder. That is as to the first point : and
then as to the king's declaration, which was
the other matter you insisted upon, I presume
it d"es not stick with any body thai knows
the matter: hut lest it should, I would say this
to it : it is very well known in the first place (I
do not go n »w to determine the law upon it,
because you know what opinions and judgment
is received afterwards) yet this 1 will adven-
ture to say, Tbat it was never the intention of
that declaration that ever priests should coma
and reside here; but it was only intended for
tender consciences, as the very letter of the
declaration itself does shew, not to countenance,
priests and Jesuits, that have cast off all their
allegiance to die king, and endeavour both to
destroy him and his government.
Marshal. Pray Sir, will you give me leave
to speak as to that ? If so be the use of their
religion were permitted to Roman Catholics,
that religion not being to be practised without
priests, it is to be supposed, that the priests
are permitted.
Rtcorder. But if a man were to argue witb
you now in your own way ; pray are there not
priests in England, he^des those priests that
were horn here? you know, of your own ac-
quaintance there were several Roman catholic
priests, not Fnglishmen born, that are constant-
ly here, who can perform the offices.
Marshal. Nav, I don't know that ; but this
I know, if thev be not horn in England, or have
lived in England, so as to know the tongue, Ro-
man Catholics will be little the better for tbtou
£75] STATE TRIALS, Si Chau.es U. 1660.— Trial qf Lionel Anderson, [S7G
Recorder. Nay, I don't say much the better,
but much the worse for their coining at them :
and in case they would only use the English
truth, I presume they would not have so many
proselytes, bat you gull them with stuff they
understand not*
Marshal. Pray, Sir, give me leave a little, I
have one word more : For all matters of trea-
son, and treacherous conspiracy, I was freed be-
fore in this court ; now I would observe what
the best lawyers that ever were in England,
have observed for me ; that there is no crime
in priesthood itself : For my lord Coke in his
5th Repprt, 39th leaf, commenting largely upon
the statute of lll Eliz. and enlarging upon the
sense and meaning of that statute, and calling
to mind who the men were that were formerly
executed by force of that statute, and why,
concludes thus : Hence it appears, that no man
yet hath or cm be executed for his function of
priesthood, but because there was annexed to
the priesthood treacherous designs and trea-
cherous attempts. And the same lawyer in
the 3d Institutes, S2d leaf, says, That in this
statute of 27 Eliz. it was very wisely and justly
done by the statute makers, to provide, that
the judges should proceed in their judgments
upon that matter, only according to what is ex-
pressed and specified in that statute. And
those words were a sanctuary to the judges,
and put in to prevent the shedding of guiltless
blood. Now, if so be that so great a lawyer,
in a discourse about priesthood and treachery,
does thence conclude, That priesthood as
priesthood is no crime, nor no function belong-
ing to it hath any crime in it. well may I con-
clude so too : And indeed, if it had, then a
great part of the world would be traitors ; nay,
it would bring in Christ himself, who was a
priest, to be a traitor too : Therefore priesthood,
as priesthood, hath no treason essentially linked
to it. And when he says, that they must pro-
ceed according to what is specified, he does in
the forementioned place shew, that it was not
specified at all, that any that were executed,
were for priesthood executed -. And I am ao
cuscd of nothing else in the world but bare
priesthood as priesthood, without any design or
treachery joined to it: And if, according to
law, priesthood be not liable to condemnation,
then I am not to be condemned.
'Recorder. Now you have been heard.
Marshal. Yes, Sir, and I thank you for it
Recorder. This long speech of yours will
signify but little, when you consider the act of
parliament upon which you are indicted. It is
true, set that act of parliament out of the case,
and then to be a priest is not High-Treason ;
nay, in case a man be born out of the king's
dominions, and lie a priest, and remain here, that
is not High- Treason within this statute, because
priesthood itself does not make the crime (God
forbid any one should affirm it) but when all
that is granted, when an act of parliament hath
taken particular notice of the great mischiefs
and inconveniencies that have attended the go-
vernment, and the continual danger that die
supreme head hath been in, by having persons
which were born within the king's dominion*
(as you were) to wave their allegiance, and to
acknowledge a supremacy in any foreign prince
or prelate, as you all do, when you take orders
from the See of Rome ; the wisdom of the na-
tion hath thought reasonable that such should
be adjudged traitors : And this act of parlia-
ment, upon which you stand convicted, does
plainly say, 1£ any one born within the king's
dominions will take orders from the See of
Rome, and shall after reside here, he is guilty
of High Treason : And this is not only thought
so by us ihatare here,' but by all my lords the
judges that Were present at your trial; for
God forbid we should condemn you for any
thing as High-Treason, if you had not been
within the compass of the act of parliament :
And what is treason, the act of parliament
particularly describes, which all hath been prov-
ed upon you ; and because you are pleased to
speak it to the court, and lay it on the con-
sciences of the court, I discharge my con-
science ; the jury having convicted you for
High-Treason, I am very ready to pass judg-
ment upon you according to the law, and I will
clear my conscience of that presently. Tie
him up.
CI. of Cr. William Russel, bold up thy hand,
thou art in the same case, what canst thou say
for thyself? &c.
Russel. I can say this, my lord, that in nay
conscience, I do not acknowledge myself
guilty of what they accuse me for, but I mast
submit to the law s as they are made ; bat I do
protest before Almighty God, and this whole
court, that I am innocent of all that is laid
upon roe.
Recorder. Why, what were you never at
Wild-house, and said mass there ? I would
fain hear, whether you in the state and con*
dition you are in (though you Jesuits have a
thousand tricks and evasions) have confidence
enough to say you never were, nor said mass
there ?
Russel. I ought not to accuse myself.
Recorder. You are convicted. But every
thing that you say is but an evasion, and a trick
to catch and ensnare the ignorant, but
people of any sort of sense will not be
gulled so.
Russel. For my witnesses, you are my wit-
ness, I have but one witness upon that business*
Recorder. The jury have believed them.
Russel. It is possible it may be so.
Recorder. Nay, it is beyond possible, it it
true.
Russel. The witnesses that have deposed
against me, for my part, I know them not.
Recorder. You have heard of Dr. Oates, Mr*
Praunce, and of sir William Waller too. Tie
him up.
CI. of Cr. Charles Parris, abas Parry, hold
up thy hand. You are in the same condition,
what have you to say ?
Parry. What have I to say for myself ? I
have this to say, That those that did depose
S?7] STATE TRIALS, 31 Chables II. 1680.— <md others, for High Treason. [S7S
•gainst rae, did not say one word of truth |
as to their allegations, I take God to witness |
for it ; I am a dying man, and thank most
heartily the court for what they are to pro-
nounce against me, and I am as ready to suf-
fer, at any roan may be to have me to suffer, for
it is God's glory and his cause. Then 1 insisted
upon two parts, and complained, first, of sir
William Turner, that being brought before him
by Mr. Praunce, and shewing him my protec-
tion under an ambassador, and I professing
myself a Frenchman, he slighted it, which I
held to be a manifest breach against the laws of
nations*. Secondly, I was wronged by sir Wil-
liam Waller, when (in his examination of me
with justice Warcup) in the Press-yard, New-
gate, he threatened me with irons, &c. if I did
not take my oath I was not born in France, and
I refusing, (which none could be compelled to)
for it was my opponents part to prove the con-
trary ; and who can prove me to be other than
a Frenchman ?
Recorder. Nobody can ; we believe you to
be an Englishman.
Parry. If I be a Frenchman, I am not sub-
ject to the penal laws.
Recorder. Why, nobody does. We believe
you to be an Englishman.
Parry. And if it please you, they are to prove
it.
Recorder. Well, that is over now. Tie him
op.
Parry. I am not a subject, and as not a sub-
ject, am not under the penal laws.
CI. of Cr. Set Henry Starkey to the bar.
Henry Starkey, hold up thy hand. Thou art
iu tbe same condition with him that went last
before thee, what canst thou say for thyself?
&c.
Starkey. In the first place, Mr. Recorder,
here is the man (pointing at Mr. Praunce) hath
sworn two lies at one breath.
Recorder. I must not hear that, Mr. Starkey.
Starkey. Will you please to hear me, Sir ?
Recorder. I will give you all the freedom you
can lawfully desire in the world, but it must be
that which will -consist with my duty, and
the reverence you owe the court. You shall
not revile the king's evidence as long as I am
here, by the help of God.
Starkey. If that it were true, that I had said
mass at my lady Somerset's and Mr. Dun-
comb's, yet it is not sufficient to prove a man
to be a priest, for any man may take the priest's
garmoiits, and do the ceremony and the office,
because they are hundreds, perhaps thousands,
that have suffered death for it. And so to do
these acts, is not evidence of being a priest.
Recorder. Indeed, I don-'t understand what
makes a Romish priest, nor do I desire it.
Starkey. But you will give me the letter of
the law.
Recorder. And the jury hath found you a
transgressor of the law.
Starkey. The letter of tbe law is this, That
if any one of the Queen's subjects shall tran-
sport himself beyond the tea, and shall in a
seminary take orders, by authority derived
from the see of Rome, and shall return into
England, and shall not present himself here to
the ordinary, or else to such a certain number
of justices of the peace within such a term, but
shall seduce the king's lipge people < •
Recorder. No, that is another act.
Starkey. ' Then he shall be adjudged a trai-
tor/ Now, Mr. Recorder, I come to this, as I
told you belore, I had discovered a plot to the
king that was designed against his person, state
and government, and did deliver iuto his hands
eleven articles of Treason, which I had writ
with my own bands ; (and this be hath owned,
and will own.) So, Mr. Recorder, upon this i
was threatened my life and liberty by the plot*
ters, That the king should not be gone 24
hours, but I should be imprisoned. When the
king went what must I do? Must 1 stay
there and hazard my life, or trust to the kiug*s
mercy ? I was forced to come along with the
king for protection. I came to Whitehall, and
the king rose up and gave me his hand to kiss,
and so did the duke of York, and told me I was
welcome. I went to my Lord Chancellor
Hyde, who when he saw me, embraced me in
his arms, and said, thou art welcome, I am glad
to see thee in England. I had occasion to
speak with the bishop of London, Dr. Sheldon,
about another person, and when I came to
him he asked me, What is your jiaroe?
My lord, said I, my name is Starkey, with that
he catches me fast by the hand, and when he bad
doue that, he took me in his arms, and told me.
You are welcome. And Mr. Recorder, I do-
suffer to this day for the service I have done the
king.
Recorder, Mr. Starkey, I can only say this
to you, I do promise you faithfully, as I pro*
mised the other gentleman that went before,
I'll tell the king what* you alledge. He is the
best able to give an account ot it, and is the
fittest judge of his own mercy. But I could re*
commend to you, Mr. Starkey, a thing that
would be very acceptable, and then as far forth
as it is modest for me to speak, I am pretty
well assured, I might say, I could prevail for
mercy to you, That is, as you did discover one
plot before, so you would discover this hellish-
plot that is now on foot.
Starkey. Mr. Recorder, I have wished »
hundred times( and wish now, that if there were
any commissions, as is pretended, the first that
had delivered one to me, should never have de-
livered a second; for I would either have-
brought him to justice, where he should receive
his reward, or else I would have killed him in
the place ; tell the king, Mr. Recorder, that I
say so.
Recorder. Well, the king is a fountain of
mercy, and he is the best judge of the fit ob-
jects of it, I will, as I said, tell him what you
say.
Starkey* If the king does not own what I
told you, then count me the greatest knave that
ever you spoke withal.
Recorder, You remain now under. the con*
$79] STATE TRIALS, 31 Charles II. 1080 — Trial qf Lionel Andenm, [Sgd
libertyHo "make a challenge without shewing
any reason, to a certain number; and if it
thai! appear that auy of them have the least
prejudice or malice against aoy persons that
are to he tried for their lives, to a greater
number. Such, and so great is the benefit of
the laws of England, beyond all the laws of
any other nation in the world. But all these
forms having been passed, and a jury of men,
against whom you made no exception, having
found you guilty of the offences for which you
were indicted, there remains now nothing more
with the court, but to pass that judgment of
death upon you, which the law requires, and
which is the business that lies upon me now.
But before I do that, for I know you may
think it a presumption, or at least a needless
and unnecessary thing for me to take upon me,
and give any directions to you, the business of
whose profession it hath been to give precepts:
However I think it necessary for the satisfac-
tion of some persons that are here present,
that I should give them some account, why I
think this law, and the putting it in execution
at this time, is not unreasonable. For it is to
be known, that every subject of this realm by
his being born within the dominions of the
king, does owe an immediate allegiance to the
king, and is to take notice by the law, that
there is not any person hath any superiority
over him ; for under God he is the supreme
head and governor. And if any person born
within the dominions ef the king shall so far
forget himself, and what he owes to the king
by his birth, and that supremacy which he
should maintain with his life and fortune, as to
acknowledge any other foreign person to be
supreme, and to have a power to depose the
king, and dispose of his dominions (as every
one does, that takes orders from the see of
Rome) he cannot but be thought deserving of
the greatest punishment. Wherefore the wis*
dom of oar nation, the parliament, at the time
when they made the law, round that the reli-
g'on established (that religion which I hope in
od will remain notwithstanding all the ene-
mies it ever had or shall have) was invaded by
such priests as you ; they found the life of the
queen at that time in great danger, by the at-
tempts of those persons whom they had made
their proselytes, into whom they had infused
principles, that it was no crime for them to
depose their queen, since they had tlie autho-
rity of their pope to justify the fact. And if
once men can preach such doctrine, and also
but prevail with their hearers to be of such a
persuasion, if care were not taken, we shall
soon see an end of all sort of,government, and
of our religion too. But inasmueh as these
principles, were not so visibly endeavoured to>
be put in practice till of late times, though you
were not permitted, but connived at; yet that
is no reason, byt the occasion of making the
law being revived, the execution- of (he law
should revive with it I suppose it is not on-
known to any of us, that there hath been an?
hellish plot against the life of the king, and tt -
3
viction of the law ; what mercy the king, who is
the fountain of mercy, as well as of justice, will
extend to you, is in his own power.
Star key. Mr. Recorder, 1 have here his ma-
jesty's gracious pardon of the 25th year of his
reign. .
. Recorder. I allow that, but you have staid
here since.
Star key. Why then, Mr. Recorder, pray will
you advise me what to have done? Nature
teachetb all men to shun danger; for I was
threatened with life, &c. if I staid in France :
Whether should I stay there, or return to my
native country with my king? Now, Mr. Re*
corder, I drsire to know what you would have
had me done ?
Recorder. I shall acquaint the king, and will
do you all the kindness I can with him. Tie
him up.
Starkey. But how shall I do then, when I
am lame r I want a leg, and I must use my
stick.
Recorder. Then let him alone.
Starkey. But I pray, good Mr. Recorder,
will you be pleased before you give sentence
upon me, to acquaint the king with what I have
to say for myself.
Recorder. No, I cannot do that, the king's
pleasure is to be known afterwards. Set Lums-
den aside, and set all the rest to the bar.
[Then Proclamation was made for silence,
whilst judgment was giving.]
Recorder. You the prisoners at the bar;
you have been severally accused, arraigned
Starkey. Mr. Recorder, may I speak one
word ? 1 have presented this year, wherein at
the 26ih of this month I have been a prisoner,
several petitions by my friends to the king, and
desired to be transported * for my age and in-
firmities, and want of a leg, did not stand well
with my heing in England these troublesome
times. The king, I am told, hath promised I
should, but I see no fruits of those petitions.
And pray consider this, that* I should have
been imprisoned if I stayed out of England,
and now to be prosecuted in England in this
manner, and to be drawn, hanged, and quar-
t tered, is very hard.
Recorder. Whether it be true or not, God
knows, 1 shall acquaint the king with it. It
only remains with me to take notice of it for
that purpose; And for my part I am sorry
with all my heart to see so many persons
brought to receive the sentence of death by
my mouth. But I must say this, you yourselves
have been the occasion of it, and therefore
most blame yourselves for it. You have had
the benefit of the best laws, the law of Eng-
land, which gives every subject the lilierty to
make a defence for himself, whenever he is
accused of any crime ; he hath the liberty to
hear the witnesses what they say against him ;
to call any witnesses for him, and to make de-
fence for himself. And not only so, but he
hath likewise twelve men upon their oaths,
that are hit peers, against whom he hath the
SSI] STATE TRIALS, $2 Cham.es II. 1680,— Trial tf J. Tasborough and A. Price. [S83
destroy our religioo, I would to God I could
say the Plot was at an end. For I must say,
some of you, I fear, had too great an hand in
it : and what a sort of monsters were prevailed
upon to compass the same, by you, that are
priests and Jesuits, who have wrought them up
to such a belief, that murder in this world is a
certain way to saintship in that which is to
come. And though you seem to deny it, your
practices are a proof of it beyond all contradic-
tion, .which is toe reason that this law, which
was a good law at the time of the making, and
thought fit to be put in execution then, though
it hath slept some time since, should now be
put in execution against you, who have occa-
sioned all those mischiefs to this nation in
these latter times, which occasioned the making
of the law. And one thing more I should say
to that man, who pretends to merit by the
good services he hath done for the public, that
he should injoin a man to scour his kettle, as
he calls it, to receive ihe Sacrament, and then
give him a dispensation to be drunk, and make
another so, to promote a damnable design, is
such a power of priesthood, lit only for the
Pope and his imps to put in practice. — But say
no more, iu charity 1 am bound to compas-
sionate your condition, which with all my soul
I do, and heartily can say to you, I am sorry
to see you in that misery. It was in your own
power to have prevented it ; but seeing you
have made yourselves obnoxious to the law,
the only thing required of me, is to pronounce
the sentence that the law hath decreed : and
therefore in the name of the Court I do pro-
nounce this to be your Judgment—
Star key. Mr. Recorder, give me leave to
speak one word : if any ene should have held
to me that position, That it is lawful to depose
and murder kings, I would have killed him in
the place : tell the king, Mr. Recorder, I say so.
Anderson. It is my comfort, that no one of
common sense can believe it.
Marshal. May I ask one question, Mr. Re*
corder, before you pronounce sentence ?
Mr. Recorder. No, Mr. Marshal, you can*
not speak now ; but this is your Judgment, and
the Court does award it : That you the several
prisoners now at the bar, be conveyed from,
hence to the place from whence you came;
and that you, and every of you, be conveyed
from thence on hurdles to the place of execu-
tion, where every one of you are to be severally
hanged by the neck ; that you be severally cut
down alive ; that your privy-members be • cut
off, your bowels taken out and be burnt io your
view ; that your heads be severed from your
bodies ; that your bodies be divided into four
quarters, which are to be disposed at the king's
pleasure: and the God of infinite mercy have
mercy upon your souls.
Parry. ' Te Deum laudaraas ; Te Dominant
' confitemur/
Then the prisoners were carried away, and
the Court adjourned the Sessions.
260. The Trial of John Tasborough and Anne Price, at the
King's- Bench, for Subornation of Perjury : 32 Charles II,
a. d. 1680.
FlRST, Proclamation was made for informa-
tion in usual form. Then the Defendants were
called, and appearing, were by the clerk of the
crown advised to look to their challenges. Then
the jurors that were summoned to try the cause
being called, and appearing, the twelve that
were sworn, were these persons following,
Thomas Harriot, Thomas Johnson, Charles Urn-
pbervile, Thomas Earsby, Richard Pagett,
John Greene, Edward Wilford, Richard Bull,
Joseph Radcliffe, Richard Cooper, James
Supple, George Read.
CI. of Cr. Gentlemen of the jury, you that
are sworn, hearken to the record. The de-
fendants John Tasborongh and Anne Price,
stand indicted by the oaths of 12 honest and
lawful men of the county of Middlesex ; which
indictment sets forth,
" That whereas one Thomas White, alias
Whitebread, William Harcourt, John Fen wick,
John Gavan, alias Gawen, and Anthony Tur-
ner being popish recusants, and false traitors
against our sovereign lord, Charles the second
by the grace of God, of England, Scotland,
France and Ireland king, defender of the faith
fee, the 13th day of June, in the year of the
▼01* til.
reign of our sovereign lord the king that now it
the 31st, at the sessions of Oyer and Ter-
miner, and Gaol-delivery, then held in the Old*
Bailey, in the parish of St. Sepulchres, in the
ward of Farringdon-withoat, London, for the
city of London and county of Middlesex, were
lawfully indicted for certain high-treasons, in the
said indictment specified ; and afterwards wer#
severally tried by a jury of the said county, aud
then and there were attainted, as appears by
the record thereof to the jurors aforesaid in evi-
dence shewn. Aud whereas also one Richard
Langhorn, esq. being a Popish' recusant, the
14tb day of June, in the year of the reign of
our said sovereign lord the king that now is the
31st aforesaid at the sessions of Oyer and Termi-
ner, then held by adjournment at the Old- Bailey,
in the parish and ward aforesaid^ was lawfully
indicted for divers high-treasons in the said io*
dictment specified ; aod being afterwards tried
by a jury of the county, was then and there
thereof attainted, hs appenrs bv the record
thereof to the jurors aforesaid in evidence
shewn. And whereas one St«-} hen Dugdale,
upon the several trials of the indictments afore-
said, was a witness produced and sworn on be*
SL
888] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1660.— Trfe/o/./. Tatborough and A. Price, [8S4
half ofour said sovereign lord the king that now
is, and then and there in lawful manner did
Sve material evidence against the said William
arcoort, and the said several other traitors, to
prove them guilty of the matters in the said
indictment specified : the said defendants, John
Tasborough and Anne Price, the premises
aforesaid well knowing, and being persons de-
vilishly affected towards our sovereign lord
Charles the second, now king of England, &c.
their supreme and natural lord, and devising,
and with all their strength intending the peace
and tranquillitypf this kingdom to disturb, and
to hinder and stifle the farther discovery of the
said treasons, and as much as in them lay, the
due course of law to elude, and the prosecution
of justice in that behalf to retard and obstruct ;
as also to cause and procure that it should be
believed that the persons aforesaid, attainted,
were unjustly attainted, : The said Anne Price
before the trial of the said William Harcourt,
to wit the 10th day of June, in the year of the
reign ofour said sovereign lord the king the 31st
aforesaid, at the parish of St. Margaret West-
minster, in the county of Middlesex, with force
and arms, falsly, unlawfully, unjustly, corruptly,
and -against the doty of her allegiance, did soli-
cit, suborn, and endeavour to persuade the said
Stephen Dugdale, that be the aforesaid Ste-
phen Dugdale should not be a witness nor
give evidence against the said William Har-
court,-upon the trial of the said William Har-
court for the treasons aforesaid : and that the
said John Tasborough and Anne Price, after-
wards to wit, the 12th day of October, in the
year of the reign ofour said sovereign lord the king
that How" is, the Slst aforesaid, at the parish of
S(. Margaret Westminster aforesaid, with force
and arms, Jalsly, unlawfully, jtlnjustly, advisedly,
corruptly, and against the duty of their allegi-
ance, did solicit, suborn, and endeavour to
persuade, and either of them did then and
there, falsly, unlawfully, advisedly, corruptly,
and against the duty of their allegiance, solicit,
suborn, and endeavour to persuade the said
Stephen Dugdale, that he the said Stephen
Dugdale, should retract and deny all the evi-
dence and information which he the said Ste-
phen Dugdale as aforesaid, had given against
the traitors and popish recusants aforesaid ;
the said John Tasborough and Anne Price then
and there falsly, unlawfully, unjustly, and ad-
visedly, corruptly promising, and either of
them promising to the said Stephen Dugdale
great sums of money and rewards, if be the said
Stephen Dugdale would retract and deny all
the evidence and information by the said Ste-
phen Dugdale, against the traitors and popish
recusants aforesaid, as aforesaid given, and
would withdraw and absent himself the said
Stephen Dugdaje, in places unknown and be-
yond the sea : and that the said John Tasbo-
rough and Anne Price, their wicked devices,
practices and intentions aforesaid to fulfil and
accomplish, afterwards, to wit, the said 12th
day of October, in the year of the reign ofour
laid sovereign lord the kins; the Slst aforesaid,
at the parish aforesaid in the county aforesaid
by force ana1 arms, falsly, unlaw folly, unjustly,
advisedly, and corruptly, and against the daty
of their allegiance, did produce and shew
and each of them did then and there pro-
duce and shew to the said Stephen Dugdale,
a certain note in writing, the tenour of which
note follows in these English words following
* Being touched with a true remorse of con-
t science, and hearty sorrow for the great ill I
' did in coming in a witness against the Ca-
' t holies, and there speaking things which m my
* own conscience I knew to be very far from
4 the truth : I think myself bound in duty both
4 to Ood and Man, and for the safety of my
* ow n soul, to make a true declaration bow I
' was drawn into this wicked action. But
' being very well satisfied, that I shall create
' myself many powerful enemies, upon this
' account, I have retired myseif to a place of
* safety, where 1 will with my own hand dis-
' cover the great wrong that hath been done the
1 Catholics, and hope it may gain belief. And
€ likewise I protest before Almighty Ood, that
' I have no motive to induce me to this con-
' fession, but a true repentance for the mis-
* chiefs I have done, and hope Ood Almighty
* will forgive me/ And that the said John
Tasborough and Anne Price, the day and year
aforesaid, in the parish aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, with force and arms, falsly, unlaw-
fully, unjustly, advisedly, corruptly, and against
the duty of their allegiance, the said Stephen
Dugdale the aforesaid note in writing, so as
aforesaid, to the said Stephen Dugdale pro-
duced and shewn to sign and subscribe, did
solicit and endeavour to persuade, and each
of them did solicit and endeavour to per-
suade, and then and there falsly, unlawfully,
unjustly, advisedly and corruptly did pro-
mise, aud each of them did promise to the
said Stephen Dugdale, that if he the said
Stephen Dugdale, the aforesaid note in wri-
ting would sign and subscribe, ttiat then he the
said Stephen Dugdale great and vast sums of
money should have and receive ; to the evil
and pernicious example of all persons in the
like case offending, and against the peace cf
our said sovereign lord the sing, his crown and
dignity, and against the duty of their allegi-
ance/'*
* The Latin indictment runs thus :
Rex vettus Tasborough and Price for Subor-
nation of Perjury.
Patche, 32 Car. 3, B. R.
' u> Alias scilicet die, &c. u!t* preterit*
' coram Domino Rege apud Westm', per
' sacramen' 12jur* probor'etlegatium hominum.
' corn' prsd' jurat et oncrat' exist en' ad inqui-
* rend* pro dicto Dom' Rege et corpore com'
' prsed, present' exist it', quod cum quidam
* Tho' White, alias Whitt bread, Clericds, Jo-
' hannes Fenwick Clericus, Willieluius liar-
r court, alias Harrison Clericus, Johannes
1 Gavan Clericus, Aathonius Turner Clericus^
S85] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chailb* II. 1 6^0.-^r Subornation qfPeywy. [SSG
To this Indictment they ha?e pleaded Not
Guilty, and for their trial have put themselves
upon the country, and the king's attorney like-
" », which country you are : your charge is to
et Jacobus Corker, falsi proditor' contra sere-
ni&simora Dominum nostrum Carolum secun-
dum, Dei gratia AngT, &c. 13 die Junii, anno
regni dicti Domini regis nunc 31 ad delibe-
ration' gaol' dicti Domini Regis de Newgate,
feint' per adjournament' pro' com' praed' apud
Justice-Hail in le Old Bailey, in suburbiis
civitatis London, coram just ic' ad gaol' prod'
adtunc et ibidem deliberand' assign , steterunt
indictat' pro compassation' (Anglice the com-
passing) mortis et finalis destruction' dicti
r>omim Regis, et al' altis proditionibus in
eudem indictamento specificat' posteaque ad
session' praed' praed' T. W. alias, &c. J. F.
W. H. alias, &c. J. G. et A. T. per jurat'
patriae adtunc et ibidem debito modo inde
Criat' et convict' fuer', et per judic' cur* ad-
tunc et ibidem debito modo attinct' fuer',
prout patet per record* inde juratori bus prsed'
in eviden' ostens' : Curoque etiam quidam
Ricardus Langhorn Ar' postea scilicet ad de-
liberation' gaol' dicti Domini Regis tent' per
adj ornament' pre civitat' London' apud Jus-
tice-Hall prsed', coram justiciar* ad gaol'
prod' adtunc et ibidem deliberand' assign',
14. die Junii, anno regni dicti Dom* Regis
nunc 31. suprad' legitimo modo stetit indic-
tat' pro compassatione (Anglice compassing)
mortis et final' destruction' dicti Domini
Regis, et al* altis proditionibus in eodem in-
dictamento specificat'; posteaque superinde
ad eaodem session' that' per jur' patriae, et
adtunc et ibidem per judic' cur' adtinct' fuit,
prout patet per record' inde juraterib* pred'
similk' in evidenc' ostens*. Cumque etiam
quidam Stephanus Dugdale super separal'
triation' indictament' pred' fuit testis product'
et jurat' ex parte dicti Domini Regis nunc,
et adtunc et ibidem legitimo modo material'
evidenc' versus prasd' T. W. W. ft. J. G. A. T.
et R. L. dedit ad proband' ipsos culpabil* de
materia in pred' indictamento specificat', qui-
dam Johannes Tasburgb, nuperde, &c. Gen',
alias diet' J. Tisburgh de, &c. Gen', et Anna
Price de, &c. Spinster praeroissa prasd' satis
scien' et existen' person' diabolice afFectat'
erga serenissimum Dom' nostrum Carolum
secundum nunc Regem Angl'.&c. sup rem um
et naturalem Dominum suum, ac macbinant'
et tot* virib' suis intenden' pacem et commu-
nem tranqutllitat' hujus regni AngP, pertur-
bare, imped ire, et supprimere (Anglice to
stifle) ukeriorem divulgatiouem (Anglice dis-
covery) dictar' prodition', et, quantum in ipsis
fuit, debitum legis cursum eludere, nee non
causare et procurare quod credit' foret, quod
person* sic ut praefertur attinct', minus juste
attinct' fuissent, prsed' J. T. et A. P. ante tria-
tion' prasd' W. H. scilicet prsed' 13 die Junii,
aooo, &c. nunc 31. suprad', apud paroch'
sancti Andrea? Holbourn in com' Midd , falso,
jllicite, injuste, corrupte, et contra ljgeanc9
enquire, whether the defendants, or either of
them, be Guilty of the trespass and offence
whereof they stand indicted, or Not Guilty :
if you find them ur either of them Guilty, you
* suae debit' solicitabant, subornabant, et con at9
< fuer' persuader1, et uterque eor' adtunc et
< ibidem solicitabat, subornabat, et conat' fuit
< persuadere praefat* Stephanum Dugdale, quod
< ipse praefat S. D. non foret testis, nee daret
1 evidenc' versus praefat' W. Harcourt, alias,
' &c. super triation' ipsius W. H. alios, &c. pro
' proditionibus prsed*, Et quod prsed* J. T. et'
' A. P. post triation' prssd9 scilicet 14 die Oc-
< tobr', anno, &c. nunc 31 supradicto, apud
' prsed' paroch' sancti Andreas Holbourn in
' com' Midd', falso, illicice, injuste, advisate,
< contra ligeauc' suae, debit' solicitabant, sirbor-
« n a bant, et conati fuer' persuadere, et u torque
* eor' adtunc et ibidem, falso, ill i cite, advisate,
< corrupte, et contra ligeanc' suae debitum soli-
« citabat, subornabat, et conat' fuit persuadere
< prsed' Stephanum Dugdale, quod ipse pred9
< stephanus Dugdale retraheret et denegaret
' totam evidenc', quas ipse prsed' S. D. ut pras-
< fertur, dedisset contra praed' prod i tor' eisdem
* J. T. et A. P. adtunc et ibidem falso, illicite,
< injuste, advisate, corrupte promitten' et nter-
« que eor* promitten* prsed' S. D. magti' et in-
* gent' denar' sum' et mercedes, si ipse praed9
< S. D. retraheret et denegaret totam evidenc*
< per ipsum S. D. versus praed' proditor', ut
' praefertur, dat', et seipsum S. D. in locis in-
< cognir/ et transmarin' retraheret et absen-
' taret. Et, quod praedi J. T. et A. P. ad nequis-
< simas machination9, practication', et inten-
1 tion' suas praed' perimplend' et pro perfi-
* ciend' postea scilicet .14 die Ocrobr*, anno,
4 ore. 3l. suprad', apud paroch' santi Andreas
4 Holbourn praed' in dicto com' Midd', falso,
* illicite, injuste, advisate, et corrupte contra
* ligeauciar* suar' debit', produxer' et ostender*,
< et uturque adtunc et ibidem produxit et os-
< tend it praefat' S. D. quandam aotam in scrip*
1 tis, tenor cujus quidem notae sequitur in hit
' Anglican* verbis sequen', videlicet, " Beina;
*' touched with a true remorse of conscience,
" and hearty sorry for the great ill I did, in
" coming in a witness against the Catholics,
" and there speaking things which in my own
" conscience I know to be very far from' the
" truth, I think myself bound in duty both to.
" God and man, and for the safety of my owa
" soul, to make a true declaration how I was
" drawn into this wicked action : but being very
" well satisfied that I shall create myself many
" powerful enemies upon this account, I have
" retired myself to a place of safety, where I
" will with my own nand discover the great
" wrong, that hath been done the Catholics, and
" hope it may gain belief. And likewise I pro-
" test before Almighty God, that I have no
4( motive to induce me to this confession, but a
" true repentance for the mischiefs I have done^
" and hope Almighty God will forgive me."
' Quodque prsed' J. T. et A. P. postea scilicel
' dicto 14 die Octob', anno, &c. nunc 31 M-
8S7] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chau.es II. 16&0.—lrialqfJ. Tasbcrrough and A. Price, [868
are to say so; if you find them Not, Guilty,
you are to say so, and no more, and hear your
evidence. Crier, make an O Yet.
Crier. O Yes ! If any one will give evidence
on behalf of our sovereign lord . the king,
against the defendants John Tasborough and
Anne Price, let them come forth and they shall
be heard.
Mr. Belwood. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, the defendants,
John Tasborough and Anne Price, stand in-
dicted (or subornation of perjury: and the in-
dictment sets forth, that whereas Thomas
Whitebread, William Harcourt, and others,
were indicted, and that for treason, in con-
spiring the death of the king, and other trea-
sons, and were legally tried, convicted, and at-
tainted for the same ; and that Richard Lang-
born was likewise iudicted and attainted for
the same offence : and that upon these trials
Mr. Dugdale was produced and examined as a
witness for the king, and did depose mate-
rially against the said traitors : and the defen-
dants knowing this, and contriving and design-
ing to stifle the discovery of the treasons afore-
said, did before the trial of the said Harcourt
solicit, suborn, and endeavour to persuade the
said Mr. Dugdale not to be a witness, nor to
v give evidence upon the trial: and after the
.trial, did farther solicit him to retract and deny
ail the evidence he had given on that behalf,
and promised him large rewards and great sums
of money for it : and to accomplish this, they
did incite him to withdraw and retire himself,
and produced a note which he was to sign, and
which hath been read to you, wherein he was to
acknowledge that he was in an error, and had
sworn falsly, and therefore had retired himself;
and for this they promised him great rewards :
and this offence is laid to be done falsly, ad-
visedly, corruptly, and against the duty of their
allegiance. To this the defendants halve pleaded
Not Guilty ; if we shall prove the fact upon
them, we hope you will find it.
Serj. Muynard. My lord, and you the gen-
tlemen of the jury, I am of counsel in this
cause against the defendants. For the fact
that is laid in the indictment, it consists of
_ i _
prad', ad pa roc h' saneti Andres Holbourn
( prad' in com' Midd' prsd', falso, illicite, in-
* juste, advisate, corrupte, et contra h'geanc'
'suar' debitum, prsefat' Stephanum Dugdale
' ad prad' notara in script9, sic ut prssfertur,
' eidem S. D. product' et ostens' signare et sub-
' scribere solid tabant' et persuadere conat'
' fuer' ct uterque eor' adtunc et ibidem solici-
ts bat et cersuadere const' fuit, et adtunc et
* ibidem ulso, illicite, injuste, advisate, cor-
' rupte promiser', et uterque eor' adtunc et
' ibidem promissit, quod si ipse prad' S. D.
' prad' notam in script7 signaret et subscribe-
* ret, quod tunc ipse praed' S. D. mago' et in-
* gent' den ar' sum haberet etreciperet, in ma-
* Turn et pernitiosum exemplum uidd' al' in tali
* casu delinquent ac contra pacem dicti Do*
' mini Regis, coron', et dignitat' suas, &c/
these particulars : 1. An attempt to prevent
the evidence before it was given. And 2. When
it was given, and the traitors were convicted
and condemned, then to disgrace that evidence,
and the proceedings at law that hath been
against the traitors ; and this in favour of the
Catholics. 3. The means they used to persuade
him, which wa% by corrupt promises and en-
gagements to him. And, 4. That they had
prepared a note which hath been read to the
jury ; whereby he that had swore the truth,
should publicly own to the world that he had
swore a lie : and that the Catholics had re-
ceived great injury by him, and that he had
withdrawn himself to make this discovery:
and this is the substance of the charge upon
these persons. This practice, my lord, is not
new, it hath appeared here in several other in-
stances : we remember what Reading did, and
we have not forgotten what Knox and Lane
did ; and this is the third cause of that kind
that hath come before you. Our evidence will
be this : we shall produce Mr. Dugdale, the
person against whom this design was laid, and
he can testify all this matter. Now he wss but
a single person against these two tempters;
and your lordship remembers what was said in
the like case, two might convince one ; and
therefore he thought it safe to acquaint, and he
did acquaint persons of public concern aud
authority with this attempt upon him ; and be
did not only this, but they met several times
about it at the tavern, and there we shall prove
what they did. Part of this hath beeu con-
fessed, for this hath had another examination'
in another place : and the gentlewoman hstb
confessed, that she did offer him sums o(
money; for it we will call our witnesses. We
shall not now aggravate the fault, that will
come after the evidence given ; but I inwk it
is hellish enough if it be proved.
Attorney General (sir Creswel Levins.) My
lord, this case is of the same nature with those
that Mr. Serjeant hath mentioned of Reading,
and Knox and Lane ; but it goes somewhat
further : For this must be done in writing, and
subscribed by the party, to be produced upon
occasion, to defame all the evidence that bad
been given before : And the substance of the
note is to recant all that he had said, and aver
it to be false ; and so all that have died upon
that account, must have been supposed to have
died very unjustly. This was the design of the
matter : and it was not only in this case that
these persons had been endeavouring things of
this nature ; for we can prove, if it be neces*
sary, by another witness, that this gentlewoman
hath been tampering to persuade him to **?£*
his evidence against another person, one Mr.
Parsons, a priest in custody ; and to Dr,ns\ ,
about, she did presume upon Mr. Dugdale •
old acquaintance with her : They had DCelyf^
low-servants in my lord Aston's family, and *J
that means were of ancient acquaintance; >w
she did presume upon these grounds, that sne
could withdraw him from all hk evidence.
And we shall prow, I think, by another witnesf
689] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. l68<Wbr Subornation tf Perjury. [S90
which does fortify this testimony, that both
these persons have already acknowledged this
fact, and that tliey personated great persons in
k ; that is, they pretended to come in the
name of very great persons, as you will hear,
when they had nothing to do in the thing.
They pretended to go to Windsor for pardoa
and assurances of protection, and they have
acknowledged it ; and it is in proof that they
were never near that person : That is, Mrs.
Price did pretend she should go down to Wind-
sor and speak with the duke of York, for he
was the person named, though it is acknow-
ledged, and was in proof hy her companion,
that she never came near him, that is, by Mrs.
Harris, of whom you will hear anon. And. Mr.
Tasborough did pretend the same thing to Mr.
Dugdale, and did acknowledge it to the coun-
cil, hut denied that it was true. We shall call
bur witnesses, and prove the fact as it hath
been opened.
Serj. Miynard. We will first prove the in-
dictments that are recited, and call for the re-
cords of the convictions.
L. C. J. (>ir William Scroggs). Sure they will
admit that.
S* rj. Maynard. We must offer our proof; if
they will admit it, so.
i. C. J. What say the conns: 1 for \),r> de
fendants ? do you admit the indictments and
Convictions ?
Mr. Pollexfen. My lord, I cannot tell in this
case ; If we should not stand upon it that all
the proofs be given, our client perhaps * ill take
it ill. ' I pray therefore the evidence may be
given according to law.
1+ C. J. Well, if you staod upon it, they
must prove it. Produce the Records.
Att. Gen. Give Mr. Clare his oath. [Who
was sworn J
Serj. Maynard. Put in the copy, Sir.
[Which was done.]
CI. of Cr* Come, Sir, is that a true copy ?
Clare. Yes; I examined it.
L. a J. Where ?
Clare. With Mr. Adderley, the clerk of the
peace of Middlesex; and this other with Mr.
Tanner, clerk of the peace for London.
[Then the copy of the Record of the Con-
viction of Whitebread, &c. was begun to be
read.]
X. C. J. Let them see it that are for the de-
fendants.
Justice Dolbett. Don't read it all ; if they
hare any exception to it, let them make it :
Give it over to them.
Mr. Pollexfen. Aye, my lord, let us see it.
Pray, Sir, you say you examined this, is this a
troe copy ? — Mr. Clare. Yes, it is.
[Then also the Conviction of Langhorn in
london, was read.]
Justice- Dolben. That is the Conviction at
Newgate.
Justice Ptmbertoni Well, go on with the rest
L. C. J. Go on with the evidence.
Justice PembertonT Who do you begin with?
who do you call first?
Mr. Belmood. Mr. Dugdale, my lord.' [Who
was sworn.]
Price. br.and nearer me, Mr. Dugdale.
Att. Gen. He stif.ids near enough.
Serj. Maynard. He will be near enough you
by and by, Mrs. Price.
L. C. J. Come, Mr. Dugdale, what say yon
against Mrs. Price and Mr. Tasborough ?
Dugdale. My lord, Mrs. Price being an an-
cient acquaintance of mine (for she was my
fellow-servant at my lord Aston's, may it pleas*
your lordship) I coming -to town as a witness
for the king, I did send for Mrs. Price as one
of my ancient acquaintance; 1 think it was in
January was twelvemonth.
L. C. J. Is she a papist ?
Dugdale. Yes, I think she is now: we used
to g<> to mass together in the country.
Li. C. J. She was one, but is she ?
Dugdale. I suppose, she is one ; we had fa-
miliarity together, but never till June last did
she endeavour to take off my evidence.
X. C. J. When was it she first set upon
yon ?
Dugdale. She began to tamper first the night
b. fof*» Harcourt's ni.d.
L. C. J. But she iuJ been before with you
in London ?
. Dugdale. Several times : For f sent to her
presently after 1 came to town ; but that was
the first time she offered to take off my evi-
dence. And she was then persuading me to be
out of the wav, and not to give any evidence
against Mr. Harconrt, because he was her
ghostly father.
L. C. J. Who was by ?
Dugdale. There was nobody by, but one
that was an acquaintance of mine that heard
her.
X. C. J. What is his name ?
Dugdale. Wright.
L C. /. Then you two and Wright were to-
gether ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
L. C. J. What said you to her when she
made that offer to you ?
Dugdale. I told her I could not do it ; for
that I was to appear the next day, and was to
give ray evidence, or I must be forsworn : In
any thing else I told her I would serve her ;
but (hat I could not do, because I should for-
swear myself; and I was sworn next morning.
It 'continued two or three days, or a pretty
while, before I saw her again.
L. C. J. She was angry for a while with you,
was she ?
Dugdale. She was afterwards well reconciled
to me, and after she desired me that I would
speak to your lordship, on behalf of one Mr.
Parsons, a' prisoner in the Gatehouse, that he
might be bailed out ; I told her I wtould ; I
know not whether I did or no certainty, I sup-
pose I* did speak to some of your lordship's
servants ; I do confess' it war not done : but I
891] STATE TRIALS, S3 Charles IL 1680.— Trial rf J. Ta&arough and A. Price, [Sift
was to go into the country, into Staffordshire,
and just as I was going to take coach, she sent
a messenger to me to speak with me before I
vent. I said I could not stay to speaV with
her that morning, but I would remember her
business when I came to town again ; I sup-
posed it to be this about Mr. Parsons. I went
into Staffordshire, and continued there about
six or seven weeks ; I was there at the assizes
with your lordship. Now she had been seve-
ral times at one Mr. Cross's (where we usually
met) to enquire when I came to town, and did
desire she might know when I came, for she
bad important business to communicate to me.
I think this might be about the 11th of Sep-
tember last, my lord. When I came to town,
I came to Mr. Cross's that very night, and they
told me of this, That Mrs. Price had been
there several times to request them, that when-
ever I came she might have notice. I denied
it that night ; I am very weary, said I, and
therefore would not have her sent for. Within
two or three days after. I came there again,
and she was sent for : f cannot tell whether by
my direction, or whether they sent for her of
their own accord, they can best testify that ;
when she came to Mr. Cross's, the first thing
after salutation from my journey, she asked me
if I had spoken to your lordship about Mr.
Parsons? I told her. No, not as yet; but I
would go strait up to your lordship's house, and
speak with you about it. No, said she, you
seed not now do that, for we have a greater
work in hand ; which work was this. : She told
me she was come from a great person, whom
she did not then name, to tell me, that if I
would retract my evidence (this was the short
of it, there were more particulars; and go be-
yond seas, I should either be in the duke of
York's court, or I should be supported by him.
X. C. J. Did she name the duke of York
then ?
Dugdale. Not the first time ; she said she
was come from a great person, but named him
not : The second time she named him, when £
desired to know who the great person was.
X. C. J. But what said she the first time, if
you would retract, what then.
Dugdale. I was to have a thousand pounds
paid into a merchant's hands, to be secured
for me till I came back to give evidence for
them. 1 was to take the Plot off from the ca-
tholics, and to lay it wholly upon the protes-
tants. I was to swear against some persons, as
Mr. Tasborough told me ; that after I was got
on ship- board, 1 was to do a great deal of more
service, and come to swear against a great per-
son, a person of considerable note, whom yet
they did not name.
X. C. J. But before you depart from what
Mrs. Price said to you, make an end of her dis-
course, when she told you, you should have a
thousand pounds deposited into what merchant's
band you thought fit.
Dugdale. I think not that, but into a mer-
chant's haad.
L.C.J. Well, what should you do for it ?
Dugdale. I was to retract all my evidence,
and to be uo witness against them ; but before
I would much encourage this, I went to my
lord that was then president of the council, my
lord Shaftsbury.
X. C. J. Who was by when this discourse
was ? was the third person by you speak of?
Dugdale. There were others by afterward ;
but there was nobody but we two together, I
think at thai; time: But I went to that noble
lord my lord Shaftsbury, and acquaiuted Aim
and Mr. Hambden and Mr. Charlton with it :
For she threatened, that all the king's evidence
would in a short time be banged; and if I would
come over to them, it should all be turned upon
the Protestants. The duke had a wise counsel,
and had contrived it so, that if I would coma
over to them, there would not be a papist that
should suffer mure : but their religion should be
established in half a year, and all the witnesses
brought to condign punishment. When X ac-
quainted these persons I named with this, and
communicated it to them, they thought fit I
should go on a little with her to trepan her, to
see what kind of Plot it was they were design-
ing; and I did give encouragement ; bat not so
far as to set my hand to any paper. But when
it did come out, the contrivance tbey spoke of
did prove Mr. Dangerfield's Plot, as appeared
afterwards. So, as I was saying, I did encou-
rage this to Mrs. Price, to see what I could get
out of her ; for I knew their Plots were dange-
rous and barbarous when I was amongst them;
but I never designed to prosecute them at any
bar, but only to know the depth of their con-
trivance. And these gentlemen thought it very
fit I should have some evidence to testify for
my innocency, if they should prosecute me ;
And I did get two persons, one Dr. Chamber-
lain and his clerk, who were to be in a private
place to over-hear what was the communica-
tion between us ; and when I bad placed them,
I asked Mrs. Price, whether I first began the
tampering or she, she answered she did, aod
I reckoned up all the heads of our former
treaties, though not the particulars.
X. C. J. When did Mr. Tasboroagh first ap-
pear in this matter ?
Dugdale. My lord, he never appeared but
twice, and it was about the 12th of October, I
think, the first time. We appointed to meet
at the Green-Lettice, that was with Mrs. Price,
for I never saw the face of Mr. Tasborough
before that time, and from thence we adjourn*
ed to the Pheasant in Fullers-rents.
X. C. J. There was the first time you met
with Mr. Tasborough, you say ?
Dugdale. Yes, mv lord.
X. C. J. What discourse had you with him
when you first met him ?
Dugdale. My lord, when we came there, Mr.
Tasborough was at first pleased to open the
business to me, that Mrs. Price had acquainted
him that I would coma over to them. I sat a
good while and said nothing, and when I did
speak, I did rather give cncouraftmtnt taaA
speak against it.
fcS3] STATE TRIALS, 52 Chakles II. \6$0.— for Subornation of Perjury. [£94
L. C. /. What did he tell you ?
Dugdale. He said, he was brought there to
confirm what Mrs. Price had promised me.
L. C. J. Did he say so?
Dugdale. Yes, because I would not* take it
Upon her word alone, but desired to hare some
other sufficient person: and she told me, he
was an honest sufficient gentleman, and I
might confide in him, and he said, what she
had promised, should certainly be marie good,
rtfid that be came likewise from the duke of
York, as he said, to confirm those promises had
been made me of his encouragement and pro*
tection.
L. C. J. Did he express particularly of what
should be made good ?
Dugdale. My lord, ia general.
L. C. J. Did he mention the money that
was to be paid into the merchant's hands ?
Dugdale. In general words only, all would
be made good.
L. C. Jt Then he did not ray, the monev,
but what had been said to you by her should
be made good ?
Dugdale. We had some particulars mention-
ed, but I cannot positively remember whteh.
Attorney General. I desire, my lord, the
jury may take notice of this, that what she
had promised, was, if be would retract bis evi-
dence.
Just. Dolben. Did he intimate that?
Dugdale. The second time when he came, —
Ia. C. J. But before you come to the second
time, let us make an end of the 6rst: Repeat
what he told you, wlien he came to you. Vou
say, he said I am informed by this gentle-
woman, that you intend to come over to us;
what then.
Dugdale. He told me a great many things
for my encouragement ; if I did come, that it
was a very charitable act, and ft was nothing
but what .was acted like a christian; and iff
had done amiss, I might have pardon for it ;
and he did say, he was encouraged by more
than the duke of York, that Lad taken my mat-
ter into consideration.
i. C J. What was it in general words?
Dugdalt, It was, if I would come over, and
retract what evidence I had given. And he said
whatever things had been promised me should
be sure to be made good. Then my Lord, the
seoondtime we did adjourn till Tuesday fol-
lowing ;and then we met (as I think) at the Six
Cans in Holborn, and it was pretty late that
time we met; so Mr. Tasbbrough and Mrs.
Price did tell me it was the last time they were
to come.
JL C. J. What, the second time of Tasbo-
rooph's coming ?
Dugdale. Yes, my Lord, and they offered
me this note. I had the note befoie left with
me to consider of it.
JL C. J. Who had given you the note ?
Dugdale. Mrs. Price gave me the note.
X. C. J. Did Mr. Tasborough leave you be-
fore the note was given you? For look you,
when he told you about retracting your evi-
dence, and that this is nothing but what yon
may lawfully do, it is a charitable act-
Dugdale. That was the first time, my Lord.
L. C. J. Did he produce the note then?
Dugdale. He and she together did.
L. C. J. Who was it had it ?
Dugdale. Mrs. Price had it from me, and
produced it before Mr. Tasborough's face.
L. C. J. Did she give it to bim to read ?
Dugdale. Mr. Tasborough did read it, and
reading it said, this is nothing but what you may
lawfully do ; there is no hurt in it.
L. C. J. And then he went away and left
you and Mrs. Price together ; what became of
the note r
Dugdale. Then Mrs. Price after some im-
portunity left the note with me, and I delivered
it to Dr. Chamberlain to copy out. And Mr.
Tasborough and Mrs. Price at the second meet-
ing told me, that was the last time of meeting,
and if I did not then sign it, it would be much
to my prejudice ; and that they should not be
able to do any thing for my advantage, if I did
not sign it before the Duke went into Scotland.
He was then going and it should be much for
my benefit if I signed it first ; but Mr. Tas-
borough said, he could do me no more service
except I did that.
L. C. J. He said, that that was the last lime,
and if you would do it, it would be for your ad-
vantage ?
Dugdale. Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. What said you then, did you pro-
duce the note again ?
Dugdale. My Lord the note was delivered
to Mrs. Price, and she brought it thither for me
to sign it, and laid it upon the table, and pressed
me to sign it.
L. C. J. I thought you had said she had
given you the note ?
Dugdale. Yes, but I gave it her again before
we met the second time.
L. C. J. And who produced it then ?
Dugdale. She again the second time. But
my Lord, we have missed one thing about Mrs.
Price. When she was persuading me, she
made use of the duke of York's name, and said
she would so down to Windsor to persuade the
duke that I should have my pardon-: accord*
iugly she did go, as I believe ; for she took
coach at C baring-Cross, and as she said, did
go to Windsor, and brought me word back
again, that the duke did not seem to coun-
tenance it much, for fear he should be drawn into
a praemunire himself; and then she told me the
duke did wish her to acquaint the Spanish am*
bassndor with it; and she did go and acquaint'
him with it, as she (old me. I asked her when I
should go 10 speak with die ambassador about it j
She told me that the Spanish ambassador could
not speak English, and it was not safe to trust
on interpreter that they did not know ; and so
it was to be deferred alittle longer ; but she said,
that he would protect me, and that all that she
said that the duke had promised for my reward
and for my safe going beyond sea, he would be
ready' to doit; and she cold me", that theSpa*
895] STATE TRIALS, 32Chakles II. 1680.— TrudqfJ. Tatborottgh aiuM A. Price, [89G
/■
nish ambassador would write letters into Flan-
ders. And bo they made use of the duke of
York's name ; but I could never find by any
thing nor can say, though they mnde use of the
duke of York's name, that he did countenance
any such thing, or ever knew of it.
X. C. J. How long was this before die duke
went away ?
Dugdale. It was about the twelfth or four-
teenth of October. The duke went the begin-
ning of November from hence.
' X. C. J. Sir Thomas Doleman, do you
know when the king. came to town from Wind-
tor?
Sir T. Doleman. No, I do not know.
Dugdale. It was before the duke went over
into Flanders that the king was at Windsor.
For the king and the duke of York came from
Windsor, and then the duke went to Flanders
again, and then she went, as she said, to Wind-
sor, aud came home either the day the duke
came from Windsor, or the dav after.
X. C. J. Her discourse when she went to
Windsor, was before the duke went into Flan-
ders?
Justice Pemberton. The second time you
mean.
Dugdale. Yes> my Lord, the second time.
For may it please your lordship, I do remember
now, that the day when the duke of York came
back again from Flanders, I think it was the
twelfth of October, that was the time that I saw
Mr. Tasborough first, and that was the time
they produced the note, and I shah produce
some witnesses to prove that he had discourse
with me then.
X. C. J. I would only know the time when
she told you she went to Windsor, to speak
with the duke of York ?
Dugdale. My Lord, to the best of my re-
menjbrance, and as I think, it was the day
before the king come from Windsor, that she
went down.
Just. Pemberton. He cannot swear to a day,
it is hard to put him to that.
X. C J. He is not asked to a day, but we
would be at some certainty about the time, as
near as we can.
' Dugdale. My Lord, this I dare positively
say, she went down of a Tuesday, and that was
the day before the duke of York came from
Windsor.
Justice Pemberton, He does give us the time
as near as possibly he can.
Att% Gen. Have you a copy of the note, Mr.
Puedaie ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord, I have.
Serjeant Maynard. Now we will prove that
note.
Att. Gen. For the note itself, your lordship
observes, Mrs. Price had. the original back
again, but your lordship hears ur. Cham-
berlain took a copy of it, and he will prove it.
Then Dr. Chamberlain was sworn.
X. C. J. Did she shew you the note at the
time that the went to the duke to Windsor ?
I
Dugdale. The note was produced when the
duke came from Flanders, the day I think lie
came, and that was in October. >
X. C. J. When did Tasborough and she meet
with you ?
Dugdale. When the duke of York came back
from Flanders.
X. C. J. When was- that?
Dugdale. My lord, I think it was the 12th
of October. Mis. Price bad appointed Mr.
Tasborough to come 10 confirm what she had
said before, which was the time that I saw him
first.
X. C. J. When was that ?
Dugdale. The very day the duke came from
Flanders, as I think.
X. C. J. Well then, she talked to you of the
duke of York, and going to Windsor, before
ever you saw Tasborough.
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
Justice Pemberton. And to bis evidence
was. .
X. C. J. So then here is the matter, that
the jury may understand the evidence; she
solicited him the first day before Harcourt's
trial : Then the next was three or four.
days after the trial; and then she endea-
voured to persuade you to retract your
evidence, and go beyond sea.
Justice Pemberton. No, my lord, that was
only to get the man bailed that was in the Gate-
house.
X. C. X Did she not the second time propose
that?
Dugdale. No, my lord, not till I came forth
out of the country again.
X. C. J. Then you went into the country be-
fore the great matter was spoken to? t
Dugdale. Yes, my lord. -
X. C. J. And then she left word *t the bonse,
that she might know when you came, and when
she met with you, she began to tamper with
you, and said you should have 1,000/. paid iato
some merchant's hand, and be well looked upon,
and after that she said she would go down to
the duke to Windsor.
Justice Pemberton.. But at that time she told
him, he should have a place in the duke*
court.
X. C. J. Did she produce the note the first
time you saw Tasborough?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord, the note was pro-,
duced the first time.
X. C. J. And Tasborough read it.
Dugdtde. Yes, he read it. . . .
L. C. J. And said you might lawfully do it f
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
X C. J. When was the second time?
Dugdale. It was within a few day* «««*1
about two or three days. .
X. C. J. You are not asked to a day, was de-
note produced a second time ?
Dugdale. Yes. m-
X. C. J. And then he was upon thf •*»•
matter still, when you swear the noU wai Pw"
duced the second time ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
W7] STATE TRIALS, S2 ChauisII. \6M.^for Subornation qf Perjury. [81)8
L.Q. J. And then hi* said, chit is the last
time we must offer it to you, if you do not do
ii now, I can do you no good.
Dugdaie. Yea, my lord.
X. C. J. Bat her discourse was before att
this* that she would go down to Windsor and
getyoar pardan ?
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord.
Justice Jones. Before your acquaiutanoe with
Tasbosnugh ?
Duajdate. Yes, before ever 1 saw him.
Juttioa Panbertan. Tasborough was to cue-
arm it*
Dugdaie. Yes, for I made some scruple*
about it, for they said before the duke would
believe me real, I mast subscribe the note,
which I would not do without further assur-
ance. She promised a person of good suffi*
eiency and quality should engage for the per-
formance, and one Mr. Perkins, as she said,
was to be seal for, and was sent for out of the
country, and 3/. IOi. expended in sending for
btem, And I said id Mrs. Price when lfiOOL
was proposed, Lord m heaven ! that is < too
touch money, 100/. is enough to serve me;
said she, we most have a care bow we manage
- Ihis mat tar ; for she told me the duke of York
stood upon a tickle point, and if it should be
known the duke tampered with the king's wit-
nesses, it would ruin him ; but she said 1,000/.
was prepared forme, if I weald go beyond sea
into Flanders, where I should be maintained
and protected. But I objected my fear of the
inquisition in Spain, which 1 knew to be so
cruel a thing, therefore I would not go beyond
tea. Then she asked me if I would be content-
ed with the protection of a protestant earl's
house?
X. C, J. Did she tell you bis name ?
Dugdaie. She asked me if I could not be
content to be in a protestant earl's house,
and not go beyond sea ? but she named no-
body.
X. C. J. When you said you were unwilling
to go beyond sea, for fear of the Inquisition, she
offered you the protection of a protestant earl's
bouse, and you desired to know who it was,
but she named nobody.
Justice Pembertcn. And you say when Mr.
Tasborough came to you, he told you, if you
would retract your evidence, all the promises
that had been made to you by her should be
made good ?
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord, and without I would
sign the note, the duke and the rest of the gen-
tlemen could not be serviceable to me.
Justice Pembertan. And he pressed you to
do it before the duke went into Scotland?
Dugdaie. Yes, my lord.
Mr. Belwaod. Pray, Mr. Dugdaie, what
discourse was between you and Mr. Tasbo-
rough concerning the trial of sir George Wake-
man ?
Dugdaie. The last time, the second time we
were together ■
LCi. Then you were but twice withTas-
boroogh?
VOL VIJL
Dugdaie. No, my lord, but that second timer
you may see, says he, what a progress hath
bee* made by the acquitting • of sir George
Wakeman,even that the protestant* themselves*
are at a stand about their belief whether there
be a plot or no, and if you come over to us, it
will overthrow all.
X. C. J. Had be any discourse with you
about the Spanish ambassador ?
Dugdaie. My lord, I cannot tell whether he
had or no, she had.
X. C. J. Did she say he Would undertake
the making good of the promises ?
Dugdaie. Said I, Mrs. Price, suppose I
should come over to you, what would it advan-
tage you? There is Mr. Oates, and Mr. Bedlow,
and Mr. Praunce, when I am gone. Said she,
Hang them rogues, so as ne do but set you
over, we do net care, we can quickly do their
business.
' SoL Gen. And he said, this I observe by the
way, That if he came over, all the king's evi-
dence should be hanged, and the Plot turned
upon the protectants.
Just. Pembertan. Yes, he did say so, that he
was told by the gentlewoman, if he would come
over, the Plot should be turned upon the pro-
testants, and the king's evidence be hanged.
Mr. Scroggs. Mr. Tasborough did not say so.
Att. Gen. Is this a true copy of the note ?
Just. Pemberton. But Mr. Tasborough per-
suaded him to sign the note, and Tasborough-
did say it was a good act, aad confirmed and
assured him that all should be made good to
him that she had promised, and desired him so
do it before the duke went, that he might be '
the abler to serve hitn with the duke.
Att. Gen. Mr. Dugdaie, is this a true copy
of the note ?
DugdaU. I have read it so often, that I do
believe it is a true copy : And here is the doc*
tor and his clerk, who will swear it was a true
copy, examined with the note.
Att. Gen. Swear Dr. Chamberlain and
Cleave. [Which wa* done.] With wlmt did
you examine that copy?
Cleave, By the paper given me by Dr. Cham*
berlain.
Chamberlain. My lard, I received the paper
from Mr. Dugdaie, my lord, aad gave him
order to transcribe it.
X. C. J. And that is a true copy of the paper
you bad from Dr. Chamberlain ?
Cleave. Yes, my lord, it is.
X. C. J. Mr. Dugdaie, Did you deliver that
very note that Mrs. Price delivered to you, to
Dr. Chamberlain ?
Dugdaie. Yes, I did, and received it back
again from him.
X. C. J. And you copied it out from that
note Dr. Chamberlain had ?
Cleave. Yes, I did.
X C. J. What is your name, Sir ?
Cleave. Cleave.
X. C. X Read the note. [Which was semd.
as in the Indictment.]
3M
S9<Jj STATE TRIADS, 32 Charles IL \6S0.—TrialqfJ. Tasborough an* A. Price, [900
Just. Pemberton. Was this a copy of the
Note delivered to you, that you were to sign ?•
&ugdak. Yes, my lord, it is a true copy :
And if I may not be too troublesome, there is
one thing more which comes into my mind tba(
passed betwixt Mrs. Price and me: She was in-
structing me how I 9hould be conveyed beyond
sea, and she mentioned the way of the pacquet*
boat that comes from Dover, and goes every
Tuesday or Wednesday. I made a shew as if
1 was willing to do it, but the next time she
came* said she, We have thought it not to be
so safe as to go in a merchant-ship, which was
the way we sent all our priests over.
L. C. J. When was this ?
. Dugdate* My lord, it was before the dnkt
came home the second time, it was while he
was in Flanders. And being desirous to know,
I pressed her to tell me what became of Mr.
'Ewers, my ghostly father in the conn try : It was
a long time ere she would tell roe ; but at last
she told me that he was conveyed over in those
yachts that carried the duke of York the first
time over into Flanders.
Att. Gen. Then swear Wright. [Which
was done.] Mr. Dugdale, is this the man that
you mentioned concerning the discourse about
Harcourt ?
Dugdale. He hearkened, as he told me after-
wards, but I did not then know it.
L. C. J.- Well, what say you, were you pre*
sent at any discourse between Mr. Dugdale and
Mrs Price, before Harcourt's trial ?
-Wright. My lord, I was walking to and fro
in the room : Mrs. Price, that gentlewoman,
was talking with Mr. Dugdale at the window,
and I was very inquisitive, I did' think it was
upon the account of marriage, or some such
business, and so hearkening, I did bear her
say, That Father Harcourt bad been very kind
to ber, and that she had visited him before he
went to execution, and he bid her not be
troubled, he died in a good cause ; and upon
this account 1 asked Mr. Dugdale afterwards
what her design was, and he said it was to with-
draw his evidence.
L. C. J. How often were you in the company
of Mrs. Price and Mr. Dugdale? never but that
one time ?
Wright. Yes, a dozen times, I believe, I
have been with them.
L. C. X When was the first time that you
beard them talk concerning Harcourt? they
were always very private, were. they not?
Wright. Yes.
L. C. J. Well, what did you hear the first
time?
Wright. It was at the Horseshoe tavern in
Chancery-Lane; and then the great matter
that she did desire of him was, to be kind to
Harcourt, for he had been her confessor : But
afterwards I remember, when he was con-
demned, she said she had been with him, and
he had hid her be of good cheer, for be died in
a good cause.
L. C. J. Was this the time that you were at
the i-Iorseshoe tavern ?
Wright. The first time I beard do disemme
of Harcourt then.
L. C. J, When was thisv? And what amid she
when she spoke of Father Harcourt the first
time?
Wright. It was to desire him to be kind to
Father Harcourt, because he was her con-
fessor. They spoke so softly I could hardly
bear them.
L. C. J. Well, how do yon know then ?
Wright. I asked him when be came oat,
what it was, and he said it waa to take off his
evidence against Harcotfrt; and afterwards the
said she had been to visit him.
1. C. J. What more did she say at that time?
Wright. I could not hear any more, my lofd.
L. 5. X Then all that you did hear was,
She said to him, pray be kind to Mr. Harcourt,
for he is my confessor; and tq that effect was
all their whispering that you beard ?
Wright. That is all I did hear her say at that
time.
Just Pemberton. But what did yon hear Mr*
Dugdale say at that time ?
Wright. fie said it was upon the account of
taking off his evidence.
L. C. J. Well, what did yon hear her say
afterwards?
Wrifht. After she was sayiog she had been
with him.
L C. X How long after?
Wright* I do not know, I cannot say to the
time, tor I never minded it, they sent for dm
sometimes at their pleasure ; but she said sbe
had been to visit Father Harcourt, who took
her in bis arms and said, Do not cry for me,
for I die in a good cause ; and this I told Mr.
Dugdale of again : And she did further say,
If the king should command me to he burnt
at a stake, I would do it, and so would
any of the party. Then said Mr. Dugdale,
While you give these kind expressions, yet
you would cut off his bead if you could : Said
she, you are a rogue, and I am satisfied.
L. C. J. What, was it before the time that
she said, pray be kind to Harooort ?
Serj. Maynard. We pall this witness only in
confirmation of Dugdalefs testimony.
L C: J. But brother, here is the matter; He
says at the time that she told Dugdale he was a
rogue, and she was satisfied ; afterwards she
came to tamper with him to do Harcoort a
kindness.
Wright. She said many times, there were
not four greater rogues between this and Hell
gate than the king's evidence.
L. C. J. What, was it before she talked of
Harcourt? >
Wright. Yes, a great while. .
L. C. J. That is the thine, that she shoaW
say he was a great rogue, and yet afterwards
tamper with him. .^
Serj. Maynard. There was some love be-
twixt them, and they did keep company to-
gether.
Sol. Gen. This is before she began to tamper
with Mr. Dugdale ; but that we call this wip-
901] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaeles II. 1680.-^**
of Perjury. [!K)9
to prove is, that she did afterwards tamper
with him, as Mr. Dogdale telb you.
L. C. J. And the thing I say is, Would she
ISO to tamper with one she had that opinion of?
It is not impossible to be so, bot it is not likely.
Sol. Gen. It is not impossible nor impro-
bable at al!y with submission ; who should she
tamper with but a rogue, or one that slie thought
would be so ?
Justice Pembcrton. She thought as all the
other Catholics did, and did desire to with-
draw him from his evidence against them.
Justice Dolben. And notwithstanding that she
called him rogue ; yet still the witness says,
be thought there was matter of love between
them.
Att. Gen. Then we will call you Cross, the
man of the tavern.
Justice Pembcrton: It was about a matter that
concerned the whole Catholic party, and if you
ask them they will call them all rogues:
But afterwards they will begin to tamper one
with one, and another with another.
Serj. Maynard. And they take the same
method with every one of tbem.
Justice Jones. But tin* is that that is said in
confirmation of Degdale's evidence, that Dug-
dale did immediately after tell him, that her
business waste get him to retract his evidence.
Justice Pembcrton. And he overheard so
much, that she desired of him to be kind to
Harcourt, who was her ghostly Father.
Sol. Gen. Now, my lord, as we have pro-
duced one witness to confirm one part, of Mr.
Dogdale's evidence; now we shall produce
another witness to prove the subsequent dis-
courses, and her persuasion of him to retract
and to sign the note. And for that we call Dr.
Chamberlain.
Att. Gen. We will call Cross first to prove
the meetings at the tavern, be is the man of the
tavern. [Who was sworn.]
L.C.J. Come, ask your question now ?
Mr. Rebvood.. Pray what can you say con-
cerning Mrs. Price's discourses with Mr. Dug-
dale?
L. C.J. Do yon know- Mrs. Price here ?
11 Cron. Yes, I do know her very well.
L. C. J. What say you then to her?
Cross. I never heard any discourse from
them but what was common.
Justice Dolben. But they have been often
there only them two, have they not? '
Justice Pemberton. Did she ever come to
your noose?
Croat. She hath been there several times.
Att. Gen, I would ask you this question, Sir,
Whether she wed not to come there and send
lor Mr. Dogdale, when he hath not bean
there?
Cross. Yea, she hath been there often to en-
quire for bint.
Att. Gen. What frequently ?
Cross. Yet, a great many times.
Att. Gen. About what time of the year ?
Cross. Last Summer, in June, July, and
several months.
L. C. J. What say you to September and
October?
Crete. I can't my the particular months, but
she hath been there, and desired me to eend for
Mr. Dugdale, for she had earnest business with
him.
Att. Gem. Was it presently after he came to
town?
Crass. My lord, she seat for him before lie
went out of town, and after he came to town ;
before he went to the assise*, and since he
came from the assises.
Att. Gen. Pray did yon ever bear them speak
about a priest, one Parsons ?
Cross. I have heard somewhat about Mr.
Parsons, That Mrs. Price did speak to Mr. Dug-
dale, thathe should not proceed further against
him than he had done.
L. C. J. Did you hear her talk about Har-
court ?
Cross. Yes, I have heard her speak some*
thing, but I do not know the particulars of it.
L. C. J. But you have heard her name Har-
court'* name?
Cross. Ye%lhave.
L. C. J. You do not pretend this man was
by at the agreement ?
Att. Gen. No, we do not : but only to prove
they had frequent discourses together, and that *
she sent for him often about business.
JL C. J. And it is to the same purpose that
the other was called for, only in confirmation.
Mr. Sanders. My lord, we pray he may be
asked, whether Mr. Dugdale did not sometimes
send tor Mrs. Price ?
Cross. Not upon his own account, as I know
of; for I have told you she hath been there,
and left word she must needs speak with him,
and when be hath come she hath been sent for.
Mr. Sanders. Do you know she hath been sent
for at any other time?
Cross.. Not that I know of: But when he
was in the country, she came to our house, and
desired that whenever be came to town she
might speak with him about earnest business,
and she was sent for.
Mr. Scroggs. Bot he does not say any thing
of Mrs. Taaborough.
L. C.J. No; he came only to the Pheasant,
and that other place.
Att. Gen. Now, my lord, if your lordship \
please, Mr. Dugdale did mention a matter that
some persons were by direction to stand by
and hear their discourse ; we have these per-
sons here, who will tell you now it was, Dr.
Chamberlain and his clerk.
Dr. Chamberlain. My lord, some time in
September, Mr. Dugdale acquainted me, that
there was a design to draw him off from his evi-
dence, and he told me that the duke of York
was named in k. I said, if it were so, it were
a thing of great moment, and if it could be
confirmed it were well. He told me, if I would
come to his chamber sorot* morning, Mrs. Price
should be there, and I should hear the dis-
course; and accordingly I did come the 2 2d
or S3d of September, and was there about an
003] STATE TWAI& 30 Cv AUia II. im.^TriolqfJ. Taslorcmgh md 4- Price, [M*
JL C. J. What did you hear then?
. Cleave. Before that Mrt. Price came, we
shut up ourselves in the closet, and desired Mr.
Dugdale to make a feigned discourse to sat
whether w e could hear him, and be did to, and
we heard indifferently well. We bill hku to
speak a little loud that we might be sure te
hear him. We staid there almost half an buor
before she came. Afterwards she came up,
and Mr. Dugdale sainted her by the name of
Mrs. Price, to which she answered. He asked
her, when shall I go to the Spanish ambabsa*
dor's ? [This I heard distinctly ; for I could see
her body but not her face, she stood with her
back to the door.] It is not convenient at pre-
sent, said she, to go; for his interpreter is oet
of town. Then Mrs. Price was faying, if so be
yon will come over to the church of Rome, and
take off your evidence, you shall have 1000/.
secured to you: but bow, said be? Said the,
I will bring to you in a week's time a person
of quality that shall secure and confirm it to
you.
Or. Chamberlain. That I heard too.
Cleave. That will be well, said Mr. Dugdale;
I had rather do that way than any other. Said
the, you shall have the duke of York's protec*
tion, and a pardon not only for your body, but
for your soul.
Serj. Maynard. A large proffer !
Cleave. And afterwards said be, if I should
come over again to the church, what sip aifiet
my going out of the way, when there is Dr.
Oates and others to go on- with the evidence?
said she, we do not care so much for them, lor
the duke's eye is only upon you.
Justice Pemberton. Did yo>u hear that, Dr.
Chamberlain ?
Dr. Chamberlain. No, my lord ; the duke was
named indeed, but I do not; remember that
particular. And she several t imes desired aim
to speak softly ; and then Mr. Dugdale was
so honest, that he repeated it over again, tb*t
if we had no! heard him before,* we might un-
derstand him.
X. C. J. Now prove this gentlewoman to be
the person.
Cleave. She afterwards pressed him to go
with her to the Gatehouse, which be seemed
unwilling to do, but went ; and we have a man
here that stood below the stairs, that saw bar
come in and go out.
Serjeant Maynard, Call Holme* [Who
was sworn.] What can you say about this Mrs.
Price?
X. C. J. Do you know Mrs* Price ?
Holme*. Yes, That is the woman.
Mr. Belwoad. Did you see bar at Dr. Cbaav
berlain's ?
Holmes. I saw her at Mr. DugdaJe'e that
morning that my master was there.
X. C. J. What time do you speak of?
Holmes. The 38d of September I went aloof
with my master.
X. C. J. Who it your matter I
Hooves. Dr. Chamberlain. . ,
X. C. J. What day of the week wee ttr
hour, and went into the closet wkh my clerk,
and bid Mr. Dugdale speak with an iiio liferent
voice, to &ee if I could hear what they said.
He did no, and we did hear him. At length
Mrs. Price came ; the gentlewoman I bad never
seen, but he called her by that name, and she
answered to it. They had several discourses, 1
could not overhear ail, but the sum* was, that
the Spanish Ambassador was unwilling to treat
with him, because it was dangerous, and he
must make use of an interpreter, and that the
duke of York would protect him, pardon him,
and give him a thousand pound to maintain him ;
You know, bays he, Mrs. Price, that I began
not this intrigue with you, hut yon proposed it
to me. She owned it, that she had proposed it
to hi ox.
L.C.J . Now how can you tell this is the
gentlewoman ?
Dr. Chamberlain. Nay, I don't know that,
my lord.
An. Gen. We don't pretend that, but will
prove ir by another witness by and by.
Dr. Chamberlain. It was about the 2Sd or
23d of September, a Monday morniog as I re-
member.
Just. Jones. Was Tasborough there ?
, Dr. Chamberlain. No, my lord, none but them
two.
X. C. J. Well, go on, sir.
Chamberlain. She did press Mr. Dugdale very
much to go with her to the Gatehouse, he would
willingly have excused it, but she pressed him
to earnestly, telling him she would not go with-
out him, that they went together, and he came,
op afterwards to me, where I bad staid all the
time.
X. C. J. Did you hear her say any thing
what she would have him do for that 1,000/.
Dr. Chamberlain. I cannot tell truly any
thing, but only to be gone.
Just. Pcmberton. You could hear that ?
Dr. Chamberlain. Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. Whither ?
Dr. Chamberlain. ,Nay, I don't remember
thar.
Serj. Maynard. This was before the note,
my lord.
Dr. Chamberlain. Yes, my lord, for that was
brought me afterwards.
Recorder. Call the other witness, Cleave.
X. C. J. How long was this • before. Har-
court's trial?
Dr. Chamberlain. I don't know that, my
ford, it was in September.
Just. Ve>hberton. But the trial was long be-
fore thut, soon after Trinity* term.
Sol. Gen. Pray, what did Mr. Dugdale say
to her when she pressed him to be gone, did he
not make any objection?
Dr. Chamberlain. Possibly he might, I did
not hear all that was said.
Cleave. 1 was there the 22dof September.
X. C. J. In the closet with Dr. Chamberlain?
Cleave. Yes, my Mrd.
X. C. J. Had you ever seen Mrs. Price ?
CUave. No, never in my life thai I know of.
005] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chables II. 16SO.— /or Subornation qf Perjury. [906
Vplme*. On * Monday morning between 8
And 9 o'clock.
. Just Dolben. That is the tame time you
speak of, is it not ?
Chamberlain, and Cleave. Yea, my lord, be
went along with us.
Holmes. This is the woman that came down
with Mr. Dugdale ; I took great notice of her,
and know her very well again: There were
some words spoke in the shop, but I don't know
what they were.
X. C. J. Dr. Chamberlain, she went out
of the chamber with him, did she not?
Chamberlain. Yes, my lord, she did.
X. C. J. How often have you seen her ?
Holmes. I saw her go into the' bouse, come
out with Mr. Dugdale to go to the Gate-house,
aud when they came back again from West*
minster, from the Gate-house.
X. C. /. How often have you seen her besides.
You took notice of her when she came down
stairs, and when she came back again ?
Holmes. Yes.
X. C J. And this is the woman upon your
oath?
Holmes. Yes, upon my oath.
Just. Pemberion. She came down with Dug-
dale, and would have him go along with ber to
the Gate-house.
Att. Gen. My lord, we say that Mr. Dug-
dale did acquaint Mr. Hambden, and Mr.
Charlton and my lord of Shafcsbury with the
business r we desire Mr. Hambden and Mr.
Charlton may be called, who promised to be
here. [But they appeared not.]
Att. Gen. Then, my lord, here are the clerks
of the council, they will all give your lordship
an account that this woman and the gentleman
did acknowledge this matter before the council,
and there did deny what they bad sworn at first.
X. C. J. Who do you swear first ?
Att. Gen. Sir Robert Southwell [Which
was done.]
I* C.J. Come, sir Robert, what do you
know ?
Sir R. Southwell. My lord, she, this gentle-
woman, Mrs. Price, was about the 43d of Octo-
ber examined before the council, and being
examined, we were commanded to takenote%
the several clerks of the council, and we did
take notes, which were long, and, my lord, I
must refer to those notes. "
Justice Pemberto*. Have you those notes ?
Sir R. Southwell. Yes. It is hard for me to
give my evidence, unless some particular ques-
tion be asked me, became, tbey are rosy long.
Att. Gen. Then I ask you, sir, this particular
question, whether that gentlewoman did ac-
knowledge the paper she is charged with ?
Sir it. Southwell. My lord, I do remember
Mrs. Price, when she was asked who it was that
framed the paper for her (because it seemed to
the lords as if it had been a thing so very well
framed that it was bet ond a woman's capacity
to do it) Mrs. Price said that she studied it her-
self, and indited it herself, and one Mrs. Man
as I think, writ it out for her ; but she took it
upon herself, that she had studied it (that parti-
cular word) and contrived it.
Att. Gen. What did Mr. Tasborough say?
Sir R. Southwell. My lord, I do also remem-
ber that Mr. Tasborough was cited before the
council-board: and being asked about this
paper
X. C.J. Was it shewn him ?
Sir R. Southwell. I verily believe iV^was ; it
was read to him. Mr. Tasborough did speak
very cautiously, and as prudently as be could
in the matter : he did. not positively say
he had pressed Mr. Dugdale to sign it ; bat
did tell Mr. Dugdale, that unless he did sign it;
be could not proceed to get him any favour,
for that was to be the foundation to testify
that he was a man of that sorrow that be had
expressed himself to Mrs. Price ?
X. C. J. Did be own that to Mr. Dugdale ?
Sir R. Southwell. Yes ; and he added, my
lord, further (to do bim justice in all be said) in
case Mr. Dugdale had signed the paper, he
would presently have carried it before a magis-
trate.
Att. Gem. I think we need not trouble your
lordship any further at present ; we leave it
here till we bear what they say.
Mr. Sanders. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the j ury ; I am of counsel
for Mrs. Price, that is one of the defendants in
this Indictment ; which, as hath been opened,
does set forth, that she did contrive to suborn
the king's evidence before the trials of those
persons, and to suppress it ; and afterwards
to retract the evidence given, and go off from
what before he had sworn, to disparage the
justice of the realm, and to make it be believed
that those persons who were- condemned and
executed for this conspiracy were innocent, and
had wrong done tbem by him. Now for that
matter, that which we have to offer for her is
tliis : Mr. Dugdale and Mrs. Price were fellow-
servants in my lord Aston's family, and there
they did contract a more than ordinary familia-
rity; for in truth tbey did contract a marriage,
and Mr. Dugdale did promise her marriage; but
afterwards Mr. Dugdale having seme other de-
sign, did desert her, and she came to London and
lived here ; but afterwards when he came up
to London, be thought fit to renew his suit, and
did not only send for her when he first came
to London ; but we have it in proof, that from
time to time be had continually sent for her,
and would not be quiet without her; and when
she denied to come upon his sending in his own
name, be sent in another woman's name, whom
he knew to be an acquaintance of ber's : and
thus there continued all along a great intimacy
between tbem, insomuch that several persons,
and among them one of the kind's ^mqesses,
did observe they were speaking about marrying
and did think they did intend to be married in
a short time ; my Lord, what discourse might
pass between them I don't know : for ought I
perceive she is proved to be a papist, and it is
very like she would solicit one with whom she
had that familiarity, for these of her own party
907] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial of J. Tasborough and A. Price, [908
as much she as could; but as far as I perceive by
this evidence that hath been given, lie under
colour of kindness, and pretence that he would
marry her, and sending for her from time to
time, at last to rid his hands of her, hath put this
upon her, that she should solicit to suborn hiui
against his conscience to withdraw his evidence.
She is a kind of weak solichrix for matter of judg-
ment ana* reason ; I know not. what other preva-
lency she might have with him By any other thing,
but for judgment I think
X. C. J. If she penned that herself, as she
did acknowledge and avow she did, she was a
woman of good judgment certainly.
Mr. Sand. I perceive he was of good judgment
to get rid of one he was weary of, by this means.
Just. Pemberton. Alas! Alas! This is such
a design indeed of counterproving the king^i
evidence.
Mr. Sanders. Mr. Dugdale hath sworn, that
this was her intrigue, and she first began with
bin* : If Mrs. Price be admitted to swear, who
is the defendant, as well as Mr. Dugdale, who
is the prosecutor, she would tell vou that Mr.
Dugdale did contrive this matter himself.
Jost. Pemberton. She would destroy his evi- I
dance that way* that's very well. !
Just. Dolben. Dr. Chamberlain and his clerk ?
both swear, That he told her, ' You know it
was not I begun this intrigue, but you.9
Mr. Sanders. And if she bad bad but so roneh
wit to have planted witnesses to have taken
advantage of bis words, she bad counter- worked
htm.
Just. Pemberton. Tbey will learn such ways
toon enough of themselves, you need not teach
them.
Ml. Sanders. If you please we will go on with
our evidence, and call witnesses to prove that
Mr. Dugdale had contracted himself to her in
marriage ; and this is a very unkind ill thing in
bim to serve us thus.
Just. Pemberton. Mr. Sanders, you ought to
remember, Publico privatis, &c. A man should
E refer the public good and .safety of the nation
efore such a mistress as this is.
Just. Dolben. But hitherto the proof runs,
that she sought him, and not he her.
Mr. Sanders. But tbey were contracted first.
Just. Dolben. And you bear what the master
of the Horseshoe says about her leaving mes-
sages for him".
Just. Pemberton. He hath very good reason
why he should not marry her, for what I can
perceive.
X. C. J. It is much they should be con-
tracted, when she told him he was a great rogue.
Mr. Sanders. It may he she might, I know
not what cause he hath now to be displeased
with ber ; but it may be she might be displeased
wkb him then. • But I beseech your lordship
aad the jury to observe, that though she did
tell him he was a rogue, vet it was afterwards
that she did solicit and suborn him.
Just. Pemberton. And therefore the thought
plainly be was fitter for ber purpose, because
she took him for a rogue.
Mr.' Sanders. But if she had a purpose to
suborn bim, she would not call him rogtfe to
his face ; that was not the way to insinuate into
him. I desire sir John Nicholas may be sworn:
[Which was done.]
X. C. J. What questions do you ask sir
John?
^dr. Sanders. I desire, my Lord, sir John
would tell us, whether Mr.Dugdale in his hear-
in* did not own he was contracted to Mrs.
Price?
Sir J. Nicholas. No, truly sir, that I know oC
Mr. Sanders. Pray, sir, will you please to re-
collect it ; it was when Mr. Dugdale was before
the council;
8ir J. Nicholas. Mr. Dugdale did then own
some proposals of marriage, but nothing of a
contract.
X. C. J. It b your women-witnesses) are lie
to do that.
Mr. Sanders. That is all, sir, you remember?
Sir/. Nicholas. Yes.
Jost. Pemberton. Have you put the best foot
forwards, Mr. Sanders ?
Mr. Sanders. Which is Mary Benwell ? Swear
Mary Benwell. [Which was done.] We will
now prove he sent for us several times ; we did
not go'after him so much. What do you know
concerning Mr. Dugdale's sending for Mrs.
Price?
Benwell. He sent for her to my bouse several
times.
X. C. J. Did he lie at your house ?
Benwell. No, my Lord, he did not
L.C.J. Where ts your house?
Benwell. In Brownlow-street*
X. C. J. What is it a public house?
Benwell. It is an alehouse, the Green- Lettice.
Just. Dolben. He told you so himself, that he
did meet her at the Green-Lettiee.
X. C. J. What was their discourse when they
met?
Benwell. I know nothing of that, I did net
hear him say any thing ; but only he would com*
in and say, let your boy go for Mrs. Price.
X. C. J. When was this ?
Benwell. The last time was Sunday seven*
night before she was taken.
Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies.) She always
came when she was sent for ?
Benwell. Yes, if she was within.
Mr. Sanders. How often did be send for her ?
Benwell* Above 80 times.
L.C.J. What great inference canyon make
from that ? metbinks it is as much against you
as it is for yon ; for it proves there was a great
familiarity and frequent meetings between them ;
if and it be so, it shews as if she bad that great
confidence in him, as to attempt npoo, and at-
tack him in this anair.
Just. Pemberton. Indeed Mr. Sanders, if
yon would have proved an inducement to Mr.
Dugdale's evidence, you conM not have proved
it better, that she bed gmt confidence in him;
she had an opinion, and reckoned be was sure
to ber, and so bad a greater irdmrnee over his
than another,
909] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— -fir Subornation qf Perjury. [910
Just. Jones. He sent for her to the Green-
Lettice, she sent for him to the Horseshoe ; the
master of the house sweartth that she sent for
him 20 times, so they might send fop one
another 90 times a- piece.
Just. Dolben. And he never came to seek for
her hat when she bad been there, and left word
for him before.
Mr. Sander* Now, raj lord, if you please,
we will go on to prove, That when she refused
to come, be sent tor her in another body's name.
X. C. J. What will that do ? Or what does
that prove ? ^ .
Mr. Sanders, It is aot probable then that she
should solicit htm : And just at the last here
are some witnesses planted, and some words
are taken from her mouth, that it was her intrigue
all a^ong.
Just. Pemberton, Mr, Sanders, you do not
•haw the time when those frequent sending* and
comings were.
. X. C. J. It shews that which they have prov-
ed, that the believed he was fond of her, and
she was confident of him.
. Just. Jones. I suppose Mr. Sanders means,
and does drive at this, to shew that it was to
drive on the intrigue on his part that these fre-
quent messages were sent.
Then another Woman Witness was called and
sworn.
Witness. My lord, at the time that the pro-
clamation was for the banishing of all papists
out of town, she came to me and said, If Mr.
Dugdale come to ask for me do not offer to tell
him where I am.
X. C. J When was this f
Witness. Long before Easter Term, before
the papists were banished out of town.
Just. Pemberton and Just. Jones. This was
auotber part of the intrigue.
Witness. So Mr. Dugdale came to me, and
asked me where Mrs. Price was > I told him I
could not tell ; but if you have any letters I
will convey them by a messenger or some foot-
boy so her.
Just. Jones. Did he send for her at any
time in September ?
Witness. The last time he sent for her was
the Sunday was sennight before she was taken.
X. C. J. Did he frequently send for her a
smooth or six weeks before that ?
Witness. Yes, several times.
Mr. Sanders, Then swear Bridget Lee.
[Which. was done.]
Mr. Sanders. Pray, mistress, you that spoke
last, did Mrs. Price ever deny herself to him,
but that once when she left that word with you ?
Witness. Never to me, my lord, but tha t
time.
Mr. Sanders. Bridget Lee, pray tell my lord,
-whether Mrs. Price did deny herself, and the
way he used to get her to him.
Lee. Mr. Dugdale came into this gentle-
woman's house, and coming into the house I
was in the passage ; be asked roe, sweetheart,
let me speak with you ; he desired . me to tell
him where Mrs. Price was ; I told him I could
not tell : I wish, said he, you would fetch her
to me ; no, said I, I would not do it for at.
He clapped his hand into his pocket, and said
he, I will give you 5s. No, said I, I will not
do it if you would give me 5L Let every tub
stand upon its own bottom.
X. C. J. What did you mean by those
words, Let every tub stand upon its own bot-
tom?
Lee. I would not meddle nor make with any
thing but my own concerns.
X. C. J. How long was this before tha trial
of Harcourt?
Lee. A quarter of a year before that.
I*. C.J, It was before he went out of town,
the circuit.
Xee. Yes, my lord, so it was.
Just. Pemberton. There had been no tam-
pering then, this was before the tampering.
X. C. J. It is no matter when the tamper-
ing was, but when Mr. Dugdale sent for her,
and she refused.
Mr. Sanders. I wonder what they did together
all the time before, if they were not tampering.
X. C. J. They made love together.
Mr. Sanders. W hat was the occasion that .
she refused ?
Witness. I understand that Mr. Dugdale did
find I was fearful of myself ; you may venture,
said he, for I would not do her the least wrong,
nor the least hair of her head should not perish.
X C. J. This was long before he went into
the country ?
Witness. Yes, my lord.
X. C, J. Before the tampering?
Witness, Yes, my lord.
Mr. Sanders. Where is that other witness,
Mrs. Holland ? [Who was sworn.] What do you
know of Mr. Dugdale's sending for Mrs. Price?
I wotfld know the last time, and where it was.
Holland. My lord, 1 do not know what place
it was he sent for her to, nor the last time, but
it was since Christmas.
X. C. X Since Christmas ?
Holland. No, before Christmas, but I do not
remember the day.
X. C. X How do you know that he sent for
her?
Holland. I was told by the people so, That
a messenger was come from him for her.
X. C. J. You did not sve him.
Holland. No, I did not.
X. C. J. She says nothing to the purpose.
Holland. I know Mr. Dugdale was m her
company one Sunday last Lent, and was there
two hours.
Just. Jones. It is agreed of all sides they
were acquaintance, and had great familiarity.
Just* Pemberton. Ay, or she would never
have had the confidence to have attempted upon
him in this manner.
X. C. J. Well, have you any more ? *
Mr, Sanders. Here is one more, that m Mrs.
Sheldon. . . •> .
X. C. J. What do you call her for ?
Mr. Sanders. To prove. that there. was a
»I I] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chkkvzs IL mo,—'IKal<fJ. Jatborovgh and A. Price, [913
note left to warn her to avoid Mr* Dugdale's
company.
Just. Pemberton. Why did you not ?
Mr. Senders. It had been better for us if we
had.
X. C. J. When was that note ?
Mr. Sanders. Lately.
X. CJJ. That will do no good.
Just. Pemberton. Come, call her however ;
they wilt say their witnesses were not heard
else. [And she was called, but did not appear.]
X. C. J. ' Come, she is not here.
Mr. Sanders. Then, my lord, we offer this as
evidence, That we had no design to suborn him
to retract what he had said ; the occasion of
our being with him we have given you an ac-
count of.
Just. Pembtrton. Why did you write your
note then ?
X. C. J. Mr. Sanders, what you have said
amounts to nothing to avoid the evidence that
bath been given for the king ; for all your tes-
timony says little more, than what he said at
first ; that we were fellow-servants, and well-
aequajnted ; we made frequent visits, and when
I came to town I went to see her, and she
came to me : Tbey had no discourse of this
same matter of tampering till the day before
Harcourt's trial ; but sir Robert Southwell does
say, she owued that she did study the note,
which is the great business in the case : for if
she prepared the note for him to sign, what
can be said more }
Mr. Sanders. We can say no more but that
Mr. Dugdale might dictate it.
X. C. J. No, she owned she dictated it, and
got Mrs. Man to write it for her.
Mr. Sanders. I do not know, my lord—
X. C. J. But you may know, if you will ;
for sir Robert Southwell hath sworn, That she
being eiamined at the council-board, the Lords
of the Council had so good an opinion of the
skill of it, that they asked her, who framed it
for her ? And she answered, she did it herself.
Just. P ember ton. Mr. Sanders, if you be
not satisfied, here is another of the clerks of
the council.
S»* J. Nicholas. All dial sir R. Southwell
bath said is true.
Sir T. Dolemam. All that sir JSL Southwell
hath said, I can swear to every particular.
X. C. J. Well, what say you, Mr. Pollexfen ?
Mr. Pollexfen. My lord* if you please to
spare me a word for the other defendant Mr<
Tasborough: There is in the indictment two
things charged on the defendants; one, That
they should persuade Mr. Dugdale not to give
evidence against Harcoort: for that there is
no manner of evidence against Mr. Tasborough,
but he ought te be found Not Guilty for that
§nrL
X. C.J. That is true, of that he must be
acquitted.
Mi. Pollexfen. Then for the other part of
the charge, That they should endeavour to per-
suade Mr. Dugdale to retract the evidence be
fead formerly given, for a sum of moneyy and
other rewards : We do reckon, that as this evi-
dence stands before your lordships, whatsoever
is proved against Mrs. Price, will have no in*
Auenoe upon Mr. Tasborough; for although
Dugdale and Price have had practices and de-
signs amonsbt themselves, unless he be a party
to them, if he have not a part in them tbey
will not affect him : Then the nest thing is, we
must distinguish the evidence as it stands, or
else it may not be by the jury so well under*
stood how they are differenced one from ano-
ther ; for I would not mince the evidence, bat
let it stand as it is : and how far Mr. Tas-
borough is concerned in it, and bow far may
be done by him as an honest man in this mat-
ter, or how far it is au illegal act, will be to be
determined by yon. Now there is only two
meetings that Mr. Dugdale bath bad with Mr.
Tasboffongh; and in the next place, there ieno
other witness to prove it but Dugdale himself,
excepting only what sir R. Southwell saws of
the confession at the couocil, which, I think,
will not be very much neither, as I shall anew
when I come to that particular. Mr. Dugdale
says, that at the first meeting,, the ltth of Oct.
at the Green-Lettice in Fuller's Rents, Mr.
Tasborough did say unto him, that Mrs. Price
had told him, Mr. Dugdale would retract his
evidence, and he was come to confirm what
she had said.
X. C. J. Nay, but what she had promised.
Mr. Pollexfen. Yes, what she bad promised;
and that he came from the duke, and that it
was charitably done of him to retract ; he goes
no further : and that if he had done amiss he
should be sorry for it. This is the evidence, as
near as I can remember tp repeat it.
X.C. X Part of it.
Mr. Pollexfen. As to the first meeting ■ ■
Just Pemberton. Look you, do not mistake,
Mr. Pollexfen, but observe this : For Mr. Dug-
dale does swear he told him, If you will retract
the evidence you have given, then all she bath
promised shajl be made good.
Mr. Pollexfen. That he came to confirm
what she had promised. I would repeat it as
right as I could, because, my lord, I hope, as
this case stands, that notwithstanding all that
hath been proved, yet Mr. Tasborough bath
done nothing amiss. Then I come to the se-
cond meeting.
Just. Pemberton. At the first meeting the
note was produced.
X. C. /. No, I think not.
Just. Dolben. Yes, my lord, it was.
L.C.J. Was it, Mr. Dugdale?
Dugdale, Yes, my lord.
Mr. Pollexfen. Yes, be awes swear so, and
that he read it, and pressed Mr. Dugdale to
sign it ; and that this was the* last time, and it
must he done before the doke went into Scot*
land, or something to that purpose. This, nay
lord, under favour, may all stand and be very
true, and yet Mr. Tasborough not criminal, with
submission. For if se be Mrs. Price were so
far in her intercourse with Mr. DotdaJe, that
as appears by his own evidence he did
J&13] STATE TRIALS, S3 C*a*les n. 16" 80.— /or
(914
comply and treat, as if he were yielding, and
to do what they would have him do, concerning
his going beyond seas, or being kept in a Pro-
testant lord's house, and she had snch confi-
dence as to tell him how the priests were sent
away, .and how he might be conveyed away:
All this thus far comes to agree with what Air.
Tasborough says for his own defence: For Mr.
Tasborough says, Mrs. Price did tell me, that
Air. Dugdale was sorry for what he had sworn,
and would retract all * the evidence he had for-
merly given. Thus he says : I'll apply it to
our case anon : and this appears by Mr. Dug-
dale's own evidence ; For when he does repeat
what Mr. Tasborough told him, he says, That
be said Mrs. Price told him of it, and he hath
not told you, that he did contradict it for false.
Just. PemSerton. Pray consider; He tells
you, that Tasborough said, that Mrs. Price bad
acquainted fnra with what propositions she had
made of 1,000/1 and that he was the man that
was come to confirm the promises she had
made.
X. C J. That presses you, that is the truth
of it : If that had nut been in the case, perhaps
you do not talk much out of the way. It is
true, your observation is right.
Just. Pemberton. It is ingenious indeed, but
it will not hold out.
X. C. J. When Tasborough comes into the
company to be, acquainted with Mr. Dugdale,
at that time Mr. Dugdale had been' advised to
comply, or seem to do so to find out the plot
and design, and what he could get out by it;
and without question, to pursue that end, he
did shew yieldingness, atid as you observe, for
ought Tasborough knew, he might be sincere :
But was it a good way for him to tell him ;
there is the matter in effect he does tell him so ;
if you will retract your evitki.ee, according to
this note that was produced by ber, and read
by him, you shall have 1,000/. for your pains :
Can you answer that ?
Just. Pemberton. Or can you- answer the
other, That he should say, She hath acquainted
me with what you propose ; that is, Thai? yon
would retract all, and go out of the way, and
be no more an evidence ; and if you would do
mat, that she bath acquainted me with her pro-
position, which I come to confirm, that she
would give you 1,0001. What can be made of
that i
Just. Dolben. And withal, formerly there
was a discourse of some person of quality that
should come to him ; he desired that some such
one should be a security for the money, and
afterwards she brought Mr. Tasborough, and
said, That was the gentleman she told him of.
jjast. Pemberton. Come, Mr Pol lex fen, take
this too : What had Mr. Tasborough to do to
use the Duke of York's name? and to say,
Thai be bad authority from him to propose these
things; wfcicb certainly is a very great wrong
to so great ajprince ?
X.. C.J. That needed not to a penitent per-
son, that was sorry for what be had done.
PolUxjtn. |ie does indeed say, That Mr.
y«t. vn.
Tasboreugh should be the man that should se-
cure the money.
Sol. Gen. And there is one thing farther, to
take in all that Mr. Tasborough did likewise
say to Mr. Dugdale; That there is no harm in
doing this, that it is a very charitable act, and
that he would do well in it.
X. C. J. But they answer that, by saying,
Supposing it to be true, that Dugdale had re-
morse, then it would be a very good action ;
but to talk of 1,000/. to be given for it, there
is the crime.
Mr. Pdlcxfen. Whether my answer will take
with your lordship or no, I cannot teU ; but the
answer I would give is this ; There are several
things in that paper, as amongst the rest, That
he should fall under great dislike and danger,
and therefore was forced to hide and secure
himself, for fear of those whom he should make
his enemies by it, and that was terror enough
to any man that should run into such a retrac-
tion. Therefore now he must live when he
hath done this, and so we should apply the
other part of the .discourse, whatever money
she bad promised to take off his fears of want,
and so his coming there was to make good that
part of the paper, which says, he must be pro-
tected and maintained, and preserved, that he
may see he hath a subsistence and provision
for him, if be did deserve it. And, my lord, it
will be greatly distinguishing in our case, and
turn much upon this point, with submission, if
I give or offer money to any man to swear a
falshood or retract the truth, it is a* very great
crime, and if we are guilty of that, undoubtedly
our crime is very bad ; but in order to the
bringing of truth to discovery, and to have a
retraction, not of a truth, but of a falsehood,
and to preserve that witness from perishing, I
may promise him protection and subsistence.
Serj. Maynard. Then von have found out a
better way than the devil himself could .hava
suggested to uphold subornation.
X, C. X Upon my word, if that were a way
that were allowable, then woe be to us, we
should easily have all the witnesses tampered
with by the temptation of 1,000/. reward. Do
you think that is a good thine for. a man to sa^,
This things was rashly said, if you will unsay it,
vou shall have snch a reward ? People would
te apt to bite at such a bait, and we do not live
in so virtuous an age, that 1,000/. will not
tempt a man to unsay what he hath said atfirst,
though what he hath said then was true.
Mr. PolUtfen. It were an unjust and un-
fitting thing, if it were as you say.
Just. Pemberton. Nay, Mr. Pollexfen, con-
sider these things must not be done by any one;
their way, if they had been convinced of the
truth, had been to have carried the complaint
to a magistrate, and there to detect him by
what he had said; not to corrupt him, ami
persist in it, by telling him if he would do so
and so, he should have 1,000/. Bjr this you let
in all manner of temptations to witnesses, that
we shall never know where we are.
X. C.J. Come, Mr. Dugdale, (because I
'3N
OT5] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. \6S0.— -Trial qff. Ta$borough and A. Price, [919
will' shew you all very fair play, 1 think very
well of Mr. Dugdale.)
Just. Pembcrton. He hath carried himself al-
ways well.
jL. C. J". Yes truly, I know nothing to the
contrary: And pray tell upon your oath, and
tell the truth : Did Mr. Tasborough, when he
read the note, ask of you, Is this true ? Did
be inquire of you, Whether or no you were
really a convert and, Whether your Sorrow
and repentance were true?
Dugdale. No, he never did.
X. C* J- Did he ask you, If you could do it
with a safe conscience ?
Dugdale. No> nothing of conscience was
ever named in it.
X. C. /. Did he ask you, Whether it was
true?
Dugdale. .He never named truth or false-
hood : It was only to get me over to retract
what I bad said.
Just. Panberton. What is a temptation if
this be not ?
X. C. J. Truly I ask this question, That the
world may see, we would find out the truth by
all the ways we can ; for if we had been soli-
citous with him, and asked him, Whether he
could do this safely, and with a good conscience,
and whether the matter of it were true, it would
bave gone a great way ; but now I have asked
Mr. Dugdale this upon his oath, and he says it
was only toge{ him over to them.
Just. Pembcrton. And then consider all that
is said against Mrs. Price is turned upon you,
except that of the .contrivance to keep him from
giving his evidence against Harcourt. A very
•ubtle invention it was : but whether Mr. Tas-
borough was in the business of the note, in con-
triving it, I cannot tell, and it signifies nothing:
But she having contrived as ill a note as can
be penned, be is as much guilty ; for he solicits
as well as she, and countenances it so far, as
to undertake farther, that the money and the
bribes she had offered, should be paid and made
good.
X. C. J. Mr. Dugdale, Mr. Tasborough
talked w i th you of going away ?
Dugdale. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Advised you to be gone?
Dugdale. Yes, be did : He told me I were
best to absent myself for a while beyond sea,
and should have convenient passage.
X. C. J. Did he mention the duke of York ?
What said he ?
Dugdale. Yes, he said he had acquainted die
duke, and the duke had given him orders to
press tliat note home ; for, said he, the duke
will not believe you will be true, if you do not
sign this note.
Justice Panberton, It is never to be en-
dured, that you should abuse so noble a prince.
X. C. J. Did you tell Mr. Tasborough then,'
If I come over, there is Oates, and Bedlow, and
Praunce still left ?
Dugdale* I did say to to Mrs. Price, but
never to him.
Justice PtmbertonK Yon set then what he
would have this note signed for, to strengthen*
the Catholic cause.
Mf\ Thompson. My lord, will you please to
spare me one word for Mr. Tasborough : I
confess the evidence does seem by Mr. Dog-
dale to press us very hard, and particularly
upon that matter of tbe money ; but as Mrs,
Price had managed the business, Mr. Tasbo-
rough might have been very innocent : but, ray
lord, we must make that defence for ourselves
that we can in a case of this nature ; and
therefore it will be, I hope, no reflection to say,
We must counterprove Mr. Dugdale, and dis-
prove him as far as we can, to acquit ourselves.
My lord, it is a very great crime that we are
here charged with, and the crime being so
heinous, ought to be well Droved, and with un-
questionable evidence ; Mr. Tasborough, if be
be guilty of what he is here accused of, is a very
ill man ; but men are not drawn up to great
degrees of illness so soon as at the first act to
attempt such heinous offences : and it is not
probable, that at his first slip he should be
guilty of a fault of so high a nature, and so very
ill as this is. My lord, we shall call some per-
sons that shall make it appear to your lordship*
that after Mrs. Price had given us information
of this repentance of Mr. Dugdale's, we did
make application to a person of very great ho-
nour, no less than my Lord Privy Seal, thai
Mr. Dugdale might receive the discouragement
which it was fitting he should in such a matter.
My lord, we must call our witnesses, to prove
Mr. Tasborough to be a man of a very good re-
putation, that he never did any such thing be-
fore ; and I hope we shall give your lordship
sueh an account of him, that the jury will have
reason to believe, that Mr. Tasborough is not
so guilty as he is represented, but was drawn
into this matter, whatever it is. Pray call a
witness to shew that Mr. Tasborough acquaint-
ed any lord of the privy council.
[Then my Lord Chief Justice went off the
bench, to ait On Writs of Error in the Exche-
quer Chamber.]
Justice Pemberton. If Mr. Tasborough be
drawn in, it is by Mrs. Price, but not by Mr.
Dugdale.
Mr. Thompson. Is my Lord Privy Seal in •
Court ?
Justice Jonee. You know be is not here.
Justice Pemberton. Yon toss great name*
about, and make great noise with them, when
you know they are not here.
Mr. Thompson. If he had not fallen ill, sore ,
he would have been here. What say you, Mr*
Tasborough ?
Tasborough. My lord, I was to attend my
Lord Privy Seal yesterday, and desired hisa to
do me the honour to be here to-day, because I
was to come to my trial : He told me he had
business that would hinder him from coming ;
but, said he, if the Attorney General will in-
form himself of me, I am ready to testify, that
you gave me information first of Mr. Degdalcfr
recantation, before it came before the council*
917] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or Subornation of Perjury. [918
Justice Pemberton. W* will do your client
this right, Mr. Thompson, as to ask whether my
Lord .Privy Seal was at the council, and said
so much then.
Mr. Scroggi. He was not that day, but we
acquainted my Lord Privy Seal before that ;
but sir Robert Southwell does him this right, as
to'lny, that he did declare, if Mr. Dugdale had
signed that note* he would have gone with it
immediately to a magistrate.
Justice Pemberton. How does that appear
he said so ?
Sir R. Southwell My lord, he did further
say, after he bad said, that he would have car-
ried it to a magistrate in that case, he did say,
he had been once or twice with my Lord Privy
Justice Pemberton. Aye, he did say so ; but
-there was no evidence but his allegation.
Justice Jonee. Was my Lord Privy Seal at
-council at that time ?
Sir JR. Southwell. No, I think not, my lord.
Mr. Scroggi, It is a very strange thing we
should be so forward to promise for Mrs. Price,
if we had not thought Mr. Dugdale real.
. Justice Pemberton, It is a sign you had a
great inclination te the thing : well, call your
witnesses.
Mr. Thompson. Call sir Richard Ashfieki and
alderman Barker.
Justice Dolben. It is a fine thing this to make
a long brief with, to no purpose.
Mr. Scroggg. We have a swinging brief here
indeed.
Justice Dolben. Aye, you come with a great
brief, but no witnesses.
Mr. Thompson. If we do not call the wit-
nesses named in our brief, our client will take
k ill ; if they do not appear, we can't help it.
Justice Pemberton. You have forgot what
•you moved the Court about Tempest.
Justice Dolben. But we have not forgotten,
that about ten days ago you moved to put off
this trial, because Mr. Tempest was your ma-
terial witness ; and being asked what he could
J»rove, you said it was how you were brought
acquainted with Mr. Dugdale t but because
the Coust did not think fit to put off the trial,
Mr. Attorney did say, be would see if he had
been examined, and what he had deposed, and
report it to us ; and afterwards did so, and did
consent here that at the trial you should make
use of his examination if you pleased ; but we
do not see that you make any use at all of it."
Mr. Thompson. We that are of counsel must
make use of our client's witnesses . as we have
tbem in our brief.
Serj. Maynard. We desire they should call
their witnesses, and not name names.
Mr. Scroggi. We desire that examination
nay be read.
Ait. Gen, Produce it then.
Mr. Thompson. We have it not.
Recorder. And we for the Icing do not use it
si evidence.
Alt. Gen. Come, if it be here you shall have
it read, though I believe Mr. Tempest swears
little to your purpose ; for as I take it he says
he does not know Mr. Dugdale at all.
Justice Dolben. But ftold you that Mr.
Tasborough puts you upon trifles.
Justice Pemberton. But whatsoever they put
you upon, you should not trifle with us.
Mr. Thompson. Do you desire they should be
read, Mr. Attorney ?
Justice Pemberton. We can't read them
without the consent of both parties. Do you
consent to them first for whom they are pro-
duced?
Tatborsugh. I only desire to know by them
how I came acquainted with Mrs. Price.
Justice Dolben. Well, you hear what Mr.
Attorney says is in them; will you have them
read?
Mr. Scroggi. It is to no purpose, then, if
that be all.
Serj. Maynard. I desire to speak but a few
words, and I am bound to sneak them
Justice Jones. Brother, they have more wit-
nesses.
Mr. Pollerfen. These we shall now call are
to this purpose, to .prove Mr. Tasborough's re-
putation, that he is a very honest man.
Just. Dolben. I do not see but that he may
be a fair-conditioned man in all other things.
Just. Pemberton. look you, those that are
in their dealings sometimes honest fair men,
yet when they come to be of that religion,
there they are debauched, and there they are
brought to do as wicked things as can be, in fa-
vour, and to support that religion.
Then Alderman Barker was sworn.
Mr. Thompson. Do you know Mr. Tasbo-
rough ?
Barker. Yes, I have known him several years.
Mr. Thompion. How long ?
Barker. Fourteen or fifteen years.
Mr. Thompson. How have you looked upon
him?
Barker. I have looked upon him as an honest
peaceable man.
Just. Pemberton, You have known him to be
a Catholic ?
Barker. Yes, that I have.
Price. May I beg the favour of this honour-
able court, that I may speak for myself here ?
Just. Dolben. Well, come Mrs. what will you
say? But we must tell the Jury before band it
signifies nothing for evidence.
Price. I desire to speak the truth.
Just Dolben. But they must not believe a
word you 'say.
Price. Be pleased to give me leave to speak
however.
Just. Jones. Well, go on.
Price. Sir, Mr. Dugdale does here accuse me
of suborning him to retract bis evidence. I do
protest it is so far from it, that he importuned
me, and solicited me to go to the Duke of York,
and he told me if I would go, he would pay my
coach-hire. Is it not so, Mr. Dugdale ?
Just. Pemberton. You must not interrogate
him.
JIU] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chablrs II. IflSO.— TnaltffJ. TationmglimdA.Pri*, ^
will' shew jod all very lair play, I think very
wetl-of Mr. Dugdale.)
Just. PattberloK. He hath carried himself al-
£. C. J. Yea truly, I know nothing to the
contrary : And pray ttll upon your oath, and
tell the truth : Did Mr. T mho rough, when he
read the note, ask of you, la this true ? Did
he inquire of you, Whether or no you were
really a convert, anil. Whether your Borrow
and repentance were true?
Dugdale. No, he never did.
X. C. J. Did he ask you, If you could do it
with a safe conscience ?
Dugdale. No, nothing
ever named in it.
L. C. J. Did he ask you, Whether it
would have this note signed far, I
the Catholic cause. ,
Ml-. Tkompion. My lord, nr J
spare me one word lor M'-J
confess the evidence dots f *
dale to press us very )*J \
upon that matter of th. -I 0
Price had managed tfglfTT
rough might have b-j/f Sir
lor?, we must mat |f|
that we can ir/ jj£
could do this safely, and with a good vrtfi
and whether the matter ofit were \v': ■'* i
— " I
have gone a great way; but now fit _
Mi. Dugdale this upon his oath, 'J'jf t
was only to- get him over to the./' '.(
Just. Femberten. Andthc/'r., *
is said against Mrs. Price \ptwf
except that of thecoatiiva' {ft •""
giving his evidence ugair.7 ''' ,
aubtle invention it was// **• aa moie °'
borough was in the b' ■■*• ,, .
trivingit, I cannot • „ I**** not d° you
But she having ci- '*&*-. , _ *....
be penned, h/is -*>«- **—> l <folr*
«i wall a* she. >
to undertake / ..Tlproduceajiy w.tnesses,
brib,- ll . ■ - *£ln>"7»P"k *""*?■
talked^ ;* But I hop* if she ask un-
1? ,„, she is not to be heard.
f ,eak the truth.
lint we must not take your
b «* ,«h<. yduco your witnesses.
.-'',,,li youhave any to prove what
r*Y Whether you will take my evidence or
■ /**,. let me speaL for myself.
«*£%#«■ We cannot believe you, nor
- ihtjury believe yon, I will tell you that
*Just. Pemherten. We tell you, you must not
t, jiesnl. If you have any question* to ask,
,,, y.mr counsel propose them.
Just. Dolbtn. If you apply to the jury, you
,n nnt to tell the matter of fact, but to* prove
it t» tlitin by witnesses.
Price. I desire, however, I may be heard
myself.
If JO,
ss
•J of speech fit
•r. Dugdale that hf
perjured.
.jcrton. You are an impudent
-- talk so.
:<:c Dolbcn. Your mouth must be stopped,
can use your tongue no better.
ice Sonet, What would you ask him when
he does come t
Price. I have told my counsel'.
Mr. Sandcrt. She says she would ask him
whether Mr. Dugdale did not offer him n
to suborn him in this case, i1
ready. Sir, are you not I
Wright. Yes.
Mr. Sanien. Then pray answer the court
this question, Did Mr. Dugdale at any time
offer yon any money to take an oath, or give
evidence?
Wright. Offer me money ?
Mr. Sawlcri. Yes, you. Answer upon your
oath.
IVr^fAr. No, my lord.
Mr. Sandtri. Or any thing else did lie offer I
Wright. No, roy lord. He hath often sent
to me to coma, and when I did come, bath
said, I am glad you art come, I will do you as
great a kindness ; but he did not know, of my
coming, because his messengers bad not met
Mr. Sandert, Did any one on his behalf offer
you any thing I
Wright. No, I think not ; if it was, I think
Mr. Sander*. But did lie, or did be not?
Wtigkt. No.
Recorder. If Mrs. Price hath anymore lucfa
witnesses^ she may call them.
Serj. Muyurd. Sir, under your favour, here'
>\^ '*;endaa>
^^ciw aft** trials for so high a
^ ~*\ibfi<S Way, here" bom* Price
^?*u/^V*> That to do? She indedd bs-
V?^r!/^. ^"k ugh and she afterwards,
%\V
Way' of defence. Consider*
» upou, and in wftrft? times
is a Plot of a very high
a.ture under question, that
been Suborned, and per-
& place and: convicted for it, it
%
%&
^v
npoUioni, endeavour^
ut there is Dot only
*ed after by tbeif
+ +, **
\X \ ^
*
^» ?•« \V 4 V *i) \.v. \ It ;t has
&
^ * <* A* .ortder
^* . x*^ % *< come to
^ ^* k man in his life ?
_ ••■ ; if we should have
^"" ..iaged him ia another way,
. think, don* our duty, and the
.*u justly have reproved us for it ; but
. is one thing, which if it had not been
spoken, I would hove held my peace : &ew is
Tnsborough concerned in the case? Divers
have been questioned and executed for High-
Treason, upon Mr. Dugdale's evid*nc*; and
after such an execution, What is Mr. TaSbo-
rou^h*s duty ? It ha'th be*ii represented as if
he had been' persuaded by her, and drawn in
that way, and h* thinking thai it was a falsity
that had been sworn before, and that Mr. Dug-
dale repented of the injury h* had done them,
he should help to make this discovery. But
what was he concerned? Did h* go to a
justice of peace, or any just way ? Did he not
contrive with the devir rather than the justice?
1,000/. must be paid tb draw off a man, and
corrupt him, to make him own himself per-
jured, iu a truth that had been spoken. And
this is not the first time thdt they have done it ;
for w* remember the case of Reading very well.
I shall say no more, but this, under favour, it is
not well to say, That a man may persuade ano-
ther to deny his testimony, that is nothing con-
cerned in tb* case, in a case of this public na-
ture especially, and for money too, that was
never meant by th* ldw, and I Hope is not
meant ever to be countenanced Here. I hope
the court will giv* that cautiori to all that hear
it, as will discourage any attempts of this na-
ture for the future. And .that it shall not be
enough to excuse it, for him' to say h* was p*r-
sqaded, and thought his sorrow was real, and
X&reby to put the litig's witnesses to pro?* that
TQtO.—fr Subomatim (f Perjury. ' f&&
thing to be tme tfwrt they had prdv*d already.
What had Mr. TasboroUgh to do, a* if h* wer*
a judge of th* proceedings of the court and
witnesses ? Nothing at all, under fav6ur, but is*
a Very ill man, and as such I hbpe shall' be
punished.
Justice Jonti. Gentlemen, ybu of the jury ;
these two persons have been indicted for aver/
great offence. The indictment sets forth (that
which we all know to be true) that Whitebread,
dnddiyers others, have' been tried and condemned'
for a v*ry execrable, hellish, Popish-Plot : That'
upon these indictments, Mr. Dugdale did give
material evidence ; but that, when some oihe*
of tb* conspirators were to be tried, and
brought to punishment, these two persons did
endeavour to make Mr. Dugdale absent him-
self, and retract his evidence. And not only
so, when Harcourt wab to be brought tb his
trial, (for whom it seems Mrs. Price bad a par-
particular kindness) but likewise itvras endea-
voured, he should be gone, and not give any/
further evidence 4t all, and' he should have'
000/. for a reward. This' is the indictment.
*he inducement to the indictment (that is,
~ crials of tbe conspirators) is all well known :'
And there have been copies of the records pro-
duced, which have been inspected and perused
by the counsel on the defendants parts;
and they cannot say, but that the records agree
with the matter in that respect : Sb that ther*
is nothing at air but the bare matter of fact
that you are to enquire into.
I shall distinguish the persons :" Mrs. Price,
according to the evidence, hath gone through
the whole charge of the indictment, and indeed,
hath committed some further crimes thau have41
been mentioned in tbe indictment.
First, it hath been proved to you by Mr. Dug-
dale, That she did not only desire kindness to
Harcourt, who was her ghostly Father; but the*
did design, as much as iirber lay, that he should1
not come in at all to give evidence against him :
This is proved by Mr. Dugdale, and another
person that was by, that did hear Mrs. Price
stay, She would have him be kind to Mr. Har-
court, because he was her ghostly Pather:
withal' tells you, That immediately after Dug-
dale did tell him, that she did persuade him he
should absent himself, and not give evidence
against? Harcourt.
She is likewise charged (a* they rfre both),,
tliat she did treat with Mr. Dugdale for to re-'
tract all that h* had said, to be gone, and to
leave ft paper behiud him, which should signify,
That there was trouble of mind upon him, and
that he had done wrong in his testimony given
against th* Catholics': Therefore he would be
gone, and leave aV testimony of it in writing,
when be was gone. And she provides for hS
security abroad, and he should have 1,000/. re-
ward.
Dugdale is4 the" person With wHorti the first
trtaty was : But because h* ko*w, and it was'
observed, that it was Unsafe to deal with per-
sons that was tampering with him id such a na-
ture* rfs this* was, and upon a matter of ttiii
919] STATE TRIALS, S2Cha*lss II. 1680.— TrudtfJ. Tasborougtwid A.Price, [820
Just. Jonet. If any thiug hath been omitted
Just. Dolben. The very first thing you have
said hath discredited all you would say ; for if
Mr. Dugdale (as you say) bad importuned you
that you would do this thing for him, how comes
it to pans that afterwards you should promise
him a reward of 1,000/. and bring a gentleman
to make it good.
Price. I assure you, my lord, I never did.
Just. Dotben* It is most apparent, Tasbo-
rough does not deny that.
Price. But that which is the real truth, that
you say must not be believed.
Just. Pemberlon. Did he solicit you to draw
your Note ?
Price. Yes he did, upon the word of a chris-
tian.
Just. Jones. You did confess that you did
study it, and draw it yourself.
Price. I did so, but he importuned me to do
it.
Just. Pemberton. How do you prove that ?
Price. I desire to know by what words I took
off bis evidence at Hareourft TriaL
Just. Dolben. You desired him to be kind,
because he was your confessor.
Price. I desire to ask him the question, by
what words it was.
Just. Jones. Welt, you may ask him, but it is
little to the purpose. Can you remember the
words, or the effect of the words that she spoke
to you in the behalf of Harcourt? The night be-
fore his trial, I think it was.
Dugdale. Yes, it was the night before, to
desire me I would not be an evidence against
him, in regard he was her ghostly father.
Price. You know you came to me, Mr. Dug-
dale, and told me ^ou rid post to town.
Just. Pemberton. We must have ao more of
these interlocutory discourses.
Dugdaie. Mrs. Price, I would not do you
the least injury in the world.
Serj, Maynard. Mr. Justice Jones, I desire
a word.
Just. Jones. If you will produce any witnesses,
*Jo.~-Prtce. I desire I may speak for myself.
Just. Dolben. It is but reason she should
apeak for herself.
Just. Pemberton. But I hope if she ask un-
reasonable questions she is not to be heard.
Price. I only speak the truth.
Just. Dolben. cut we must not take your
evidence of it, produce your witnesses.
Just. Jones, If you have any to prove what
you say, call them.
Price. Whether you will take my evidence or
«ot, pray let me speak for myself.
Just. Dolben. We cannot believe you, nor
must the jury believe you, I will tell you that
before- hand. "
Just. Pemberton. We tell you, you must not
be heard. If you have any questions to ask,
let your counsel propose them.
Just. Dolben. If you apply to the jury, you
arc not to tell the matter of fact, but to" prove
it to them by witnesses.
Price. I desire, however,' I may be heard
«nysel£
by your counsel, which is material for your de-
fence, and yon have witnesses to prove it, they
shall be. called.
Just. Pemberton. Mrs. Price, yon must know
the course of the court, and the way of evi-
dence is, we are nor to hear the persons ia-
' dieted make long speeches to the court, of to
the jury, or come with great confidence to deny
the thing that is proved agaiust them ; if you
have any thing material to say, we will bear you
by your counsel ; you must not trouble us.
Price. My Lord, I have inatteY enough to
say, but it cannot be heard.
Mr. Snnders. We desire Wright may be1
called again.
Just. Jones. To what purpose?
Price. To prove that you, Mr1. Dugdale,
would suborn him.
DugdaU. Call him, if you will, if you can
prove any practices upon me. *
Price. You have good practices we kno*:
yon are a man of excellent practices ; you had
need commend your practices. You know ver/
well, Mr. Dugdale, that you told me you were
perjured.
Recorder. It is not language fit for you to
give.
Serj. tifayndrd. Is that liberty of speech fit
to be given? She tells Mr. Dugdale that he1
said himself he was perjurecT.
Justice Pemberton. - You are an impudent
woman to talk so.
Justice Dolben. Your mouth must be stopped,
if you can use your tongue no better. ^
Justice Jones. What would you ask him when
he does come ?
Price. I have told my counsel.
Mr. Sanders. She says she would ask him
whether Mr. Dugdale did not offer him money
to suborn him in this case. You are sworo al-
ready, Sir, are you not ?
Wright. Yes.
Mr. Sanders. Then f>ray answer the coort
this question, Did Mr. Dugdale at any time
offer you any money to take an oath, or pve
evidence?
Wright. Offer me money r
Mr. Sanders. Yes, you. Answer upon yonr
oath.
Wright. No, my lord. ds. .
Mr. Sanders. Or any thing else dnf he ofletr
Wright. No, ray lord. He hath often sent
tome to come, and when I did come, n*!°
said, I am glad you are come, I will do you •
great a kindness ; but he did not knot* of mj
coming, because his messengers bad not ffl
with me. .t *► .
Mr. Sanders. Did anyone on his behalf ofler
you any thing ? r ,. t,
Wright. No, I think not ; if it was, I H»°*
it was in vain. , #>
Mr. Sanders . But did he, or did he not f
Wright. No. _».
Recorder. If Mrs. Price hath auynw* **■
witnesses, she may call them. *^tj
Serj. Maynard. Sir, under/** Atout,^*
SM) STA'TE TMALS, 32 CtfXatEs H. TQtO.—f* Subornation <f Pctpay. ' £09*
hath be*n d strange1 way' of defence. Consider*
what a crime we are upou, and in what? times
We are. That there is a Plot or a very hi£h
and' transcendent nature under question, that
divers witnesses have been JUborned, and per-
sons tried in this place and: convicted for rt, it
is undeniable. Now aftei* trials for so high a
crime in the most public! Way, here Come Price
and Tasborough ; What to do? She indeed be-
fore, but both Tasborough ah'd she afterwards,
by rewards, and such temptations, endeavours'
to disgrace bis evidence; but there is not onij
that, but the great thing looked after by their1
party, was, the issue of it ; upon this all the'
king's evidence we're to be hanged. What hath
be'en said is only to make a jest, and make the
company merry, that there was a contract Of
marriage between them" ; but what will be tfie4
cooseduence of thai ? He that spoke* it, has
unquestionably proved the* probability of our
charge, we* have made it probable1, ana he* hath
proved it; and' the inference drawn by th&m is,
She certainly did hod tempt him, because' she
had an interest in him, which concludes very
naturally. But then for the other, Mr. Tas-
borough, aTde*rman Barker comes in, and swears'
the gentleman is a Very honest man; I hope
be did' hear the evidence, and thin I wonder
bow he could swear it; but do we Come to
prove whether he be a*n honest man in his life ?
It is not at all our question ; if we should have
offered to have disparaged him ia another way,
we . had not, t think, done our duty, and the
court Would justly have reproved us for it; but
there is one thing, which if it had not been
spoken, I would have held my peace : 60 w is
Tasborough concerned in the case? Divers'
have been questioned and" executed for High-
Treason, upon Mr. Dugdale'* evidence; and
after such art execution, What is Mr. Tasbo-
roo^h's duty i It hath been represented as if
he had been' persuaded by her, and drawn in
that way, and he thinking thai it was a falsitv
that had been sworn before, and that Mr. Dug-
dale repented of the injury he had done them,
he should help to make this discovery. But
what was he concerned? Did he go to a
justice of peace, or any just way ? Did he not
contrive with the devir rather than the* justice?
1,000/. must he yaid to draw off a man, and
corrupt him, to make him own himself per-
jured, in a truth that had been spoken. And
this is not the first time that they have done it ;
for we remember the case of Reading very Wei).
I shall say no more, but this, under favour, it is
not well to say, That a man may persuade ano-
ther to deny his testimony, that is nothing con-
cerned in the case, in a case of this public na-
ture especially, and for money too, that was
never meant by the law, and I Hope is not
meant ever to be countenanced here. I hope
the court will give that caution to all that hear
it, as will discourage any attempts of this na-
ture for the future. And that it shall not be
enough to excuse it, for Him' to say he was per-
suaded, and thought his sorrow was real, and
i&'rtby to put the ling's witnesses to prove that
thing to be trite that tbe'y had proved alreftfy
What had Mr. Tasborough to do, as if lie wed
a judge of the proceedings of the court and
witnesses ? Nothing at alt, under fav6ur, but is'
a Very ill man, and as such I hbpe shall' be
punished.
Justice Joritt. Gentlemen, ybd of the jury ;
these two persons have been indicted for a very
great offence. The indictment sets forth (that
which we all know to be true) that Whitebread,
and divers otncrs,have been tried and condemned'
for a very execrable, hellish, Popish-Plot : That"
upon these indictments, Mr. Dugdale did give
Material evidence ; but that, when soine other
of the conspirators were to be tried, and
brought to punishment, these two persons did
endeavour to make Mr. Dugdale absent him-
self, and retract his evidence. And not only
so, when* Harcourt was to be brought to his
trial, (for whom it seems Mrs. Price had a par-
particular kindness) but likewise it was endea-
voured', he should be eone, and not give any
further evidence rft all, and1 he should have*
t,000f. for a reward. This* is the indictment.
' The inducement to the indictment (that is,
the trials of the conspirators) is all well known :'
And there have been copies of the records pro-
duced, which have been inspected and perused
by the counsel on the defendants parts;
and they cannot say, but that the records agree
with the matter in that respect » So that there
is nothing at alt but the bare matter of fact
that you are to enquire into.
I shall distinguish the persons •: Mrs. Price,
according to the evidence, hath gone through
the whole charge of the indictment, and indeed,
hath committed &ome further crimes than have
been mentioned in the indictment.
First, it hath been proved to you by Mr. Dug-
dale, That she did not only desire kindness' to
Harcourt, who was her ghostly Father; but she*
did design, as much as in her lay, that he should1
not come in at all to give evidence against him:
This is proved by Mr. Dugdale, and another
person that was by, that did hear Mrs. Price
say, She would have him be kind to Mr. Har-
court, because he was her ghostly Father:
withal tells you, That immediately after Dug-
date did tell him, that she did persuade him he'
should absent himself, and not give evidence
against" Harcourt.
She is likewise charged (as* they are both)
that she did treat with Sir. Dugdale for to re-
tract all that he had said, to be gone, and to1
leave a paper behind him, which should signify,
That there was trouble of mind upon him, and
that he had done wrong iu his testimony given
against the Catholics': Therefore he would be
gone, and leave a testimony of it in writing,
when he was gone. And she provides for his
security abroad, and be should have 1,000/. re-
ward.
Dugdale is* the person with wHorH the first
treaty was : But because he knew, and it was
observed, that it was unsafe to deal with per-
sons that was tampering with him iff such a na-
ture? 4s this was, and upon a matter of tliut
MS] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chailis II. 1680.— Trial tf J. TatboroughandA. Price. [924
kind, he does acquaint persons of verv great,
quality, as he swears, my lord <5f Soaicsbury,
and two other persons: They do ad viae him
that fie should get some persons to be by when
they should come to some further treaties con-
cerning this business; anoVto that purpose be
should hold up a correspondence, and conde-
scend to a kind of agreement and compliance,
that he might be able to have further testimony
to confirm his evidence. Whereupon Dr.
Chamberlain and his servant are placed in a
closet in Mr. Dugdale's chamber, in such a
place, that they might hear what was discoursed
>n the chamber; in comes Mrs. Price, they
being in the closet. MrN Dugdale and she dis-
coursed about the business so loud, that Dr.
Chamberlaio and his servant (as both of them
tell you) heard their discourse upon it : The
Xuestion was asked and put to Mrs. Price :
Irs. Price. 1 hope you know you are the per-
son that first moved* this intrigue; it began
tirom you, and not from me: And this was coo-
fest by her. So that you have in confirmation
of Mr. Dugdale, the testimony both of Dr.
Chamberlain, and of his servant to that part of
the charge against her. And withal, it is added,
not only (hut be was to go beyond sea, to re-
tract what evidence he had given ; but likewise
it was thought expedient he should come over
again, and swear against all the rest of the evi-
dence that had been given or should be given*
for the king. And when it was said by Mr.
Dugdale, What will it avail you, if I do retract
my evidence. There is Mr. Gates and Mr.
Fraunce to testify the same thing: She said,
No matter for that, if we get you on our side
for the Catholic cause to be our friend, we
shall be sure to baffle nil they cau say or do ;
and we shall not only save the Catholics, but
turn the plot upon the beads of the Protectants,
and all the king's witnesses shall be hanged.
That you may remember was testified by some
of the witnesses. Mrs. Price deals frequently
with Mr. Dugdale to this purpose. Dugdale,
that he might know (and it is very like with
that honest intention, and no other, he did it)
and that he might discover the bottom of this
business, tells her, This is a thing of dangerous
consequence, and it is fit that I have better se-
curity than your promise to this 1,000/. I will
have some substantial person that shall come
and confirm what you promise, and thereupon
she tells him, he should have a substantial per-
son brought, and he should have thanks from
very great persons, naming the duke of York ;
for he it was, as they said, that would take care
to protect him, and procure a pardon for him.
Now gentlemen, this is the evidence against
Mrs. Price. . In defence of this what doth she
offer, but that she hath been acquainted with
Mr. Dugdale, and there hath been great fami-
liarity between them. If there bad not been
such a familiarity, would there have been such
an intrigue ? Is this a matter to be communi-
cated 10 a stranger ? If there were a doubt be-
fore, whether there were this contrivance, does
not this give us a better assurance that it was
to, because there was such an acquaintance be-
tween them ?
Then, as to Mr. Tasborough : He indeed is
not in the beginning of the design at all : There
is no evidenee against him for that part of the
charge, That he should absent himself, and
not five evidence against Harcourt. He comes
not in at that time ; nor can I perceive by Mr.
Dugdale, that he had any acquaintance with
him at all till the 12th of October ; and he says
he was but twice in his company.
Now, gentlemen, what does Mr. Tasboroogh
do? First, Dugdale is told by Mrs. Price, That
a man of quality should come to him, and con-
firm all the promises she had made him. Tas-
borough does come to him, aud tells him, he
hath had some discourse with Mrs. Price, what
she had proposed ; aud he is now come to make
good and confirm, that all shall be effected that
she had proposed .to him. Ay ! but it is sap-
posed, that Mr. Tasborough is a very honest
man, and a conscientious man, and does come
for nothing in the world, but to persuade Mr.
Dugdale to do the office of a christian ; it. was
a charitable thing of him, to take off the scan-
dal that was upon the innocent, out you do
not hear him charge it upon Mr. Dugdale's coo-
science, that he had given a false evidence
against any of those persons, nor urge him
much to repent. But he must be gone, he
must give no more evidence against the catho-
lics: And, what if he do comply with this de-
sire? Then he tells him he shall have a reward :
What reward?" 1,000/.; which was made known
before, and protection, and pardon, and secu-
rity : And he comes to him in the duke of
York's name, to enforce it the more strongly
upon him, and make him do it ; whereas, in-
deed, the duke of-York (as he himself and Mrs,
Price have since confessed) never knew any
thing at all of the business.
Now, gentlemen, to move by honest chris-
tian means, any one that hath done an iojary
of any sort to repentance, and contrition, and
recantation, that is a very good thing; bat to
do it with promise of a reward of 1,000/. can't
be justified ; what way is there to iosinuate
into any person an intention of doing a mis-
chief, but such a way as this ? will any one
come to another, and say, forswear yourself;
whereas you know such a thing to be true,
swear it to be false, or retract the evidence
you have given about it, and I will give you a
1,000/.? No, but serve the Catholic cause; a
great many have suffered, and by your testi-
mony; retract, begone, be secure, you stall
have a certainty, that you shall be secure in
another kingdom ; or else you shall have it in *
Protestant family ; though neither that protes-
tant, nor any protectant was named.
Is not this a bait to tempt a man to all tj*
villainy in the world? If 1,000/1 be offered, who
can resist ? Such people as these are will not
easily resist such a temptation.
But Mr. Tasborough is a very honest man in
his life and conversation ; he produceth those
that tell you his reputation is good, and the us**
925] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. mo.r-Trial qf Benjamin Harris. [926
There is no doubt of it, and if be bad produc-
ed 20 witnesses, do you think he would produce
any one that should speak against himself? He
chooses out those certainly as wonld speak as
much in his favour as they can ; but it a man
hath been an honest man in his conversation,
may he not be enticed or seduced ? especially
vrhen it will be told him, If you do this, you
shall merit heaven, you -shall be sainted and
canonized, you do the greatest service in the
world to the Catholic cause.
These temptations may work upon a man,
perhaps, that is morally honest, when be is in-
fatuated with this principle, That any thing may
be done for the Catholic cause ; as it is a Ca-
tholic doctrine too often instilled into them,
that any thing is become sancti6ed when it
tends to that end ; it is easy then to prevail
upon them in things of this nature.
I should have told you (which I omitted be-
fore) one circumstance concerning matter of
proof against Mrs. Price more than Tasbo-
rough : Two witnesses said they were in the
closet, and heard a woman discourse, but nei-
ther of them did see her face ; but afterwards
it is proved by another, that he was desired to
•bserve who came into pr Who went out of the
bouse ; and he swears he saw Mr. Dugdale and
her come out of the house ; that they went to
the Gate-house, and he saw her come again
from the Gate-house with Mr. Dugdale, and he
is sure this is the person, And you remember
that part of their discourse was of going to the
Gate-house.
Justice Pemberton. They do not deny it
neither.
Justice Jones, I don't see they do.
Justice Pemberton, It is a very strong and
plain evidence as can be given.^
Justice Jones, There is nothing can be said
for Mrs. Price, little for Mr. Tasborough.
Justice Pemberton, I see nothing that can do
him any good.
Justice Dolben. Come, gentlemen, lay your
heads together and consider of the matter.
0
Which the Jury did at the bar : And being*'
asked by the Clerk of Crown, whether they were
agreed ; they answered, Yes.
CI. of Cr. Who shall say for you ?
Omnes. Foreman.
CI. of Cr, Do you find the defendants Guil-
ty of the trespass and offence whereof they
stand indicted, or Not Guilty?
Foreman. Guilty.
Mr. Pollexfon: As to part only for Mr. Tas-
borough ?
Foreman, Guilty of the Indictment.
Justice Jones,' We all know he is not fouod
Guilty of one part, and that must be considered
at the setting of the fine.
Att. Gen. Mr. Tasborough hath been upon
bail, but I suppose must not go upon bail now ;
we pray that he may be committed.
Justice Pemberton, They must both be com-
mitted; take them both.
Mr. Sanders. Mrs. Price is still in the Gate-'
house.
Justice Pemberton, We have her here now,
she is in our custody. .
Mr. Sanders, If you please, Sir, we desire
she may be remanded back.
Justice Pemberton, No, they shall go both
into the Marshal's custody. '
Price, I beg your lordships I may go back
to the Gate-house.
Justice Pemberton, What! These are not
things to be trifled with.
Justice Dolben. No, we must not shew yon
any favour at all.
Justice Pemberton, No, we most have n#
favour for you that would destroy us all.
Then the Prisoners were taken into custody
by the Marshal, to be kept till their judgment.
Afterwards John Tasborough was fined 100/.
and Anne Price 200/.
261. The Trial of Benjamin Harris, Bookseller, at Guildlfell, for
causing to be printed, and sold, a Libel, entitled, " An Ap-
" peal from the Country to the City, for the Preservation of
" nis Majesty's Person, Liberty, Property, and the Protestant
u Religion:"* 32 Charles II. a.d. 1680.
MR. Recorder (sir George Jefferies) ; I hope,
this being a matter to be tried in the city of
London, persons coming here in great multi-
tudes, come to blush, rather than to give en-
couragement to it ; and if we can give your
lordship, and this jury, satisfaction that this
person is guilty of the offence, according as it
is laid in the information, I hope that both,
* See this " Appear' in the Appendix to
4 Cobbett's Pari. Hist. N°. IX. See, also, sir
John Hawles's Remarks on Fitzharris's Trial,
infra.
yon and all others that shall hear it, (for I per*
ceive there is a great expectation this day from
this cause) I hope, I say, you will abominate
any man that shall offer at any such like thing.
Indeed -we five in an age where all sorts of
faction and rebellion is countenanced, magis>
trates reviled, and scandalized by some per*
sons, who think they have authority so to do.
It is just like such another kind of religion,
which some have now of late taken op, chat
rather than they will be thought to turn fana*
tics, they will turn plain atheists, and others,
who scorn to be either, downright rebels. This
$27] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charm* II. lGSO — Trial of Benjamin Harris, [&»
book is .as base a piece as ever was contrived in
hell, either by papists, or the blackest rebel that
ever was : it seems to carry with it a fine cha- *
racter, and has a figure of all plausible obedi-
ence to the crown, to wit, "An Appeal, &c.
" for the preservation of his majesty's person,
" liberty, property, and the Protestant reli-
" gion." But if any of you have seen it, I
hope you will he so far from giving any coun-
tenance to it, as that you wilt, with me, think,
it is so far from tending well to the government,
that it is only designed to rake up all sedition
•nd rebellion, and the very worst of all rebel-
lion. I must confess, I would rather have
believed that it was only the sake of lucre
made him do what he did, for that would have
eomewhat extenuated his crime, if he had not
read it first ; but then to go and have it printed,
and exposed to sale, ice. this is a .great aggra-
vation.—Jf the tame sort of insinuation had
been used towards any private tradesman, as
hath been offered to the king and magistrates,
I believe there is no man .but would say, that
ere this time he might have hid. his head .—But
-dissemblances of pretences for the sake of the <
Protestant religion now-a-davs in his shop will
pass well enough, aod persons can tell you
there how far you may go from .hence to Rome
with safety ; and after they have blackened
their mouths with tobacco aod smoke, and do
not rail against the church and the govern-
ment, they are looked upon straight as no Pro-
testants.— But still as to this person, the far-
ther to urge it, .by way of aggravation upon
him, he could vauntingly make his boasts,
when it was pot home to him, why he would
venture to do such things, &c. ? That be had
above a thousand persons woo would stand by
him in whatsoever lie did.
L. C. /. (Sir William Scroggs) There was
hardly ever any book more pernicious to set
us together by the ears than this, nor any thing
a greater incendiary ; one can hardly write 'a
worse—— Says he, " We in the country have
done our parts in chusing, for the generality,,
good members to serve in parliament; but if
fas our two last parliaments were) they must
be dissolved, or prorogued, whepever they
come to redress the ^grievances of the subject,'
we may be pitied, bat not blamed. If the
Plottages effect, as in .all probability it will)
our parliaments are not then to be condemned,
for that their not being suffered to sit occa-
sioned it." So that here is a -sly way of casting
it upon the king himself. And if it be not
dp wn right treason, I am sure it is just upon the
heeU of it. It is a most abominable piece.
Then were called the Witneftes, to prove
that the books were sold in his shop; and after
they were all sworn, first of all Mrsr G rover, a
.printer's wife, stood up, who confessed she had
.half a down of them, but not of him ; for be
was either gone-out, or not in tb* wajrbut,*be
had them of his man.
Then stood up one Mary parby, and she
said, she tad four of tbem.
After her, Mr. Benjamin Tookc, at the Ship
in 8t. Paul's Churah-yard, bookseller, was ex-
amined, who said he saw several quires of
them in the shop. And being asked by Mr.
Harris, How he knew they were all those
books? He answered, that be turned over a
great many of them, and found them all the
same.
Recorder. My lord, be wbaso mighty aealou*
of this book, of sp great importance, do doubt,
to bis party, that for fear be should .he disap-
pointed in time, be gave somewhat to hasten it.
Recorder. Call — the printer's man, and swear
him. [Who stood up, and was sworn.] '
Recorder. What did Mr. Harris give you, ba ?
Printer*sMan. He laid me down six-pence.
L. C. J. And what, that was for hastening
the book, was it not ?
printer's Man. I cannot tell, Sir, not I, but
he gave me six.- pence.
Recorder. And what did you do it in the day-
time, was you not at it in the night ?
Printer9 1 Man. Yes, I was upon it in the
night.
Kecorder. Ay, it was a* deed of darkness,
and so fit for night-work.
Serj. Strode. My lord, if it can be made out
to your lordship and this jury, that he designed
maliciously to scandalize the king and the go-
vernment by it, we must acquiesce; but that,
my lord, he absolutely denies ; bat seeing it
running up and down the town, he gets sorne
of them, and suffers them to lie up and down in
hit shop, and this only as a common thing to
get money, so that we suppose it may not lie
within the information, because it does not
intentionally scandalize the king and the go-
vernment.
Mr.. Williams. He in his trade so(ri this book,
and that we admit ; but, my lord, it is a mate-
rial part of the information, that it w*s done
with a malicious design, &c. and we do not
take it so ; but for the other matter we submit
to it.
L. C. J. Then you do admit, that he did sell
some of these books.
Mr. WillUms. We do, my lord, that he did
sell one.
Mr. QlWfear. My lord, this book -was pub-
licly sold in other booksellers shops before we
had it, aud so we thought in a way of trade,
we might do the like; but as soop as ever we
heard there was any thing ill in the book, w^e
suppressed the selling of it.
'Serj. Strode. They say, my lord, the printer
had six-pence given him bv Air. Harris. Friend*
does not he come, and give you some money at
other times ? Have you never hud auy of him
before ?
Printer's Man. No, sir. I never printed any
thing for him before.
Serj. Strode* Was not this printed before you
saw it ?
Printer. Not to my knowledge.
Serj. Strode. Pray ask the first witness. Waa
not this in print belbre you saw it in his shopi
M8)
STATE TRIALS, S2Cbau.mII. 108O.-/or a Misdemeanor.
Grater. Yes, m J lord.
Mr. Williams. My lord, he is a man of other
principles, ch«n to do such things.
L. C. /. There is scarce any bat Smith, that
is so factious a teller of books as Harris : all
your domestic intelligences are so ; for which,
yoo know, you nave forfeited your recogni-
zance almost in every book.
A Neighbour was called by Mr. Williams! to
give an account of Mr. Harris.
Neighbtotr. My lord, I have known him
about « twelve-month ; and I have always
looked upon him to be a fair-conditioned,
qoiet, peaceable man : he is, and has been so
reputed among his neighbours. And 1 have
sever seen any thing from him, but what wat
very quiet and peaceable.
Recorder. A bookseller that causes a fac-
tions book to be printed, or reprinted, if it was
printed before, is a factious fellow.
L. C.J. Yon say right.
Mr. Goodhall (another neighbour of Mr.
Harris's) said, upon his being asked, if he were
acquainted with him ? And, if he were wont to
oppose, or to scandalize the king or govern-
ment } That he never heard such a like thing
of him.
Recorder. I presume thst none of these do
stand by him in any such thing : bnt he, being
advertised of it, and being asked, why he would
offer to expose to sale such a book as this ? He
answered and said, that he had a thousand
persons that would stand by him. Call Robert
Stevens.
L. C. J. What can you say ?
R. Stevens, My lord, 1 have seen this book
several times in bis shop, and others too. And
I have asked him, why he would so publicly
vend them ? (I did not indeed huy one of them
myself, but I caused a man to buy one for
me) and he said, He had several thousands to
stand by hifn ; and he is accounted an ana-
baptist. He said so before the master and
wardens of the compsJP/ ; who questioned him,
why 'he sold such scandalous things f And he
said he had several thousands to stand by him.
Then spake the Lord Chief Justice to this
purpose :
Because my brother shall be satisfied with
the opinion of all the judges of England, what
this offence is, which they would insinuate, as
if the mere selling of such a book was no
offence : it is not long since, that all the judges
met, by the king's command ; as they did some
time before too : and they borh times declared
unanimously, that all persons that do write, or
print, or sell any pamphlet, that is either scan-
dalous to public, or private persons; such
books may be seized] and the poison punished '
by law : that all books, which are scandalous
to the government may be seized ; and all per-
sons so exposing them, may be punished. And
further, that all writers of news, though not
scandalous, seditious, nor reflective upon the
government or the state ; yet if they are wri-
vol. vn.
[930
ters (as there are few others) of false news,
they are indictable and punishable upon that
account.
So that yon? hopes of any thing of that kind
will be vain ; for all the judges have declared
this offence, at the common-law, to be punish-
able in the seller, though in the way of hid
trade : the books may be seized, and the person
punished.
As for this book, in particular; yon can
hardly read a more base, and pernicious book,
to put os all into aflame: It gives you such in-
citements, and such base encouragements;
with such reflections upon all sorts of persons,
(forlhaveread.it upon this account) that I
think, there can scarce be a worse made. He
would set up another man, that has no title to
the crown : " For (says he) the greatest danger
accruing to your persons, as well as to the
whole kingdom, upon the king's untimely death,
will proceed from a confusion, and want of
some eminent and interested person, whom you
may trust to lead you up against a French and
popish army; For which purpose, no person is
fitter than his grace the duke of Monmouth ;
as well for quality, courage, and conduct, as
for that his life and fortune depends upon the
same bottom with yours. He will stand by you ;
and therefore, you ought to stand by him. And
remember the old rule is, he who hath the worst
title, ever makes the best king ; as being con*
strained by a gracious government, to supply
what he wants in title: That instead of God
and my right ; bis motto may be, God and my
people.7' He says," such a one would make a bet-
ter king ; for, as you see, the worse the title,
the better the king. A king with a bod title,
makes a better king, that he that hath a good
one; for he shall be obliged to comply with,
and will humour the people,for want of a title."
A thing, which is the basest nature that can be:
And yet this man must give money to hasten
the printing of such a book; and he had seve-
ral quires of them in his shop. Except the writer
of it, there cannot be a worse man in the
world ; who, for trivial profit, will neglect the
peace and quiet of his country, and set us all
together by the ears for a groat. And, Mr. Har-
ris, if you expect any thing in this world, of
this kind of favour, you must find out the au-
thor ; for he must be a rebellions, and villain-
ous traitor: For, though he seems to inveigh
against popery, it is only to be a rebel. And
certainly, no has rejected all the laws of God,
and all obedience that man requires ; and pro*
phaned all holy-writ. He is somebody, whose
fortune does not suits with his condition ; and
who, because he is not at ease and quiet him*
self, will let nobody else be so neither. [Speak-
ing to the Jury, who presently withdrew.] You
hnve nothing more to do, but to give your ver-
dict: If there be any thing in law, let me
know it because you go out.
. Then one of the Jury asked my lord, if they
might not have the book with them, which was
there in the court, and it was answered in the
negative.
30
9 J I ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Ch ailss IL 1 680.— Trial qf Fronds Smith, [932
Before the Jury went out, Mr. Harris would
fain have spoke to them for himself, but it was
not permitted him.
Then, after a little while tarrying, they re-
turned to the bar. And being, as is usual, ask-
ed if they were agreed on their verdict, and who
should speak for them ; they answered, Yes ;
and appointed their foreman, who said he was
Guilty of selling the book. At which there was
a very great and clamorous shout.
Lord Chief Justice said, that was not their
business, they were only to determine whether
barely Guilty, or not Guilty.
The Recorder would have bad them given
their verdict by the poll, but they all unani-
mously cried out, they were all agreed, and
then the foreman gave the verdict again, Guilty.
Mr. Recorder then prayed, he being for the
king, that Mr. Harris might stand committed ;
Who was thereupon presently delivered to a
tipstaff, to be curried to the KingVbencb.
Mr. Harris earnestly beseeched his lordship
that be might be sent to any other prison, and
named Newgate three or four times, but it was
not granted him : Thereupon be said, I hope
God will give me patience to go through it.
Then my Lord Chief Justice spake to the
Jury to this effect :
I am sorry you gave countenance to this cause
so much, as to slir from the bar, when the evi-
dence was so full, and when I told you plainly,
not only my opinion, but likewise that of all
the judges of England, that selling this book
was an offence at the common law, for which
they ought to be punished ; And yet with your
scruple^ you give the party (with their haiioos,
and shoutings) to take advantage ; though yoa
did mean upon the matter the same thine then,
you do now, yet you see, upon every little oc-
casion, when a thing shall seem to thwart the
government, .how ready they are to send up ■
their loud hallooings. It was not so prudently
done as might have been done. We had
need look about us, for if at such a time, and
for such a base book, such clamorous noisea
shall be made, what shall become of us ? Oar
lives and fortunes are at stake. Would I knew
some of those shout ers, I would make them
know, I would punish them : I am incensed in
the behalf of the government, and of all one
lives and fortunes that such shall go unpunished.
Harris afterwards received Sentence in the
court of King's bench, to pay 500/. * Fine ;
stand ou the pillory an hour ; and mid sureties
for his good behaviour for three years ; and had
it not been for Mr. Justice Pemberton, the
Chief Justice would have ndded, that he should
be publicly whipt.
See the Proceedings against the Judgcs,ui/r«.
* It appears by the Commons Journal of De-
cember 21, 1680, that the House ordered an
Address for the remission of this fine to be pre-
sented to the king. See, too, the Journal of
December 8, 1680.
262. The Trial of Francis Smith, Bookseller, at the Guildhall of
London, for publishing a Libel : 32 Charles II. a.d. 1680.
1 HE Jury being sworn, Mr. Holt opened the
Information.*
Mr. Holt. May it please your lordship, here
is an information preferred in behalf of the
* In former editions the following indict-
ment is, by mistake, inserted as appertaining
to this Case :
Rex versus Smith, for a Libel.
32 Car. 8, B. R.
" ss. Jurator' pro Domino Rege super sacrum*
* suum presentant, Quod Franciscus Smith, nu-
' per de in librar', Deura pre oculis
* suis non habens, sedinfttigationedinbolicamo-
' tus et seducV, et falso et inaliciose machinans,
' et intendens serenissimum Dominum nostrum
1 Carolum secundum, Dei gratia Anglis, Sco-
* tie, Francis, et Hibernie Regem, fidei defen-
* sorein et regimen suum, in odium et infamiain
' inter aubdito* suos inducer© et inferre, et sedi-
* tionem inter subditos diet9 Dora' Regis mo vere,
' 24 die Decembris, anno regni diet9 Dom'
' Ree;is32 apud in vietarmis, falso,
' teditiose, et maliciose scripsit et publicavit, et
•' scrihi, imprimi, et publican causavit quendam
4 fief, fals*, sedit*.et scandalos' libel', intitulnt',
' ' A Speech lately made by a noble Peer of the
' ' Realm.' In quo quidem libello continent'
king against Francis Smith, bookseller ; and it
sets forth, That after sir George Wakeman,
William Marorml, William Rumley, and James
Corker, were indicted and tried on the 18th of
* bee falsa, fictn, etscandalosa verba sequentia :
4 ( My Lords, it is a very hard thing to say, that
' ' we cannot trust the king ; and that we have
' * been already deceived so often, that we see
' * plainly the apprehensions of discontent in
* * the people is no argument at court ; and
' ' though our prince be in himself an excellent
' * person, that the people have the greatest
' ' inclination imaginable to love, yet we most
' ' say, he is fcucb an one, as no story affords us
' ' a parallel of. How plain, and how many
* ' are the proofs of the designs to murder him?
' ' How little is he apprehensive of it V * Etia
' altera parte cjusdem li belli continent* base
1 falsa, fjcta, et scandalosa verba sequentia :
is. * My lords, I hear of a bargain in the House
' ' of Commons,and an address made to the king,
* ' but ibis I know, and must boldly say it, and
' ' plainly, That the nation is betrayed, if upon
* ' any terms we part with our money, till w«
' ' are sure the king is ours. Have -what laws
' ' you will, and what conditions you will, they
1 ' will be of no use, but waste paper before
' ' Easter if the court have money to set up for
933]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chailis
July, 1679, for divers high- treasons, at the ses-
sions-bouse in the Old- Bailey, before sir James
Edwards, then lord mayor of London, and the
Lord Chief Justice Scroggs, and others;
the defendant, Francis Smith, published a scan-
dalous libel relating to \he iate trials, which
intitled, u Some Observation! upon the late
** TriaL"* &c. the words are particularly set
forth iif the information ; to which the defen-
dant pleads Not Guilty ; but if we prove it
upon him, you of the jury are to find for the
king; and if you find he is Not Guilty, you
are to say so and no more, &c.
. Then Mr. Recorder spake to this effect.
Mr. Recorder* (Sir George Jefferies). My
lord, I am of counsel against the defendant
fort he king, who stands iuformed against for a
very great offence. The information particu-
larly sets forth, That whereas some certain per-
sons were indicted at the sessions- house in the
Old-Bailey, before the then lord mayor, sir
James £d wards, and other persons then in com-
mission of Oyer and Terminer, and gaol-deli-
very for that place, and particularly my
lord chief justice Scroggs, and after the
trial was over aod the persons thereupon
acquitted, there was a bouk, which is men-
tioned in the information,printed and published,
and it is a book that is known by the name of
Tom Ticklefoot ; a very abusive thing ; but
persons now begin to grow wonderful nitty in
the beginning of their books, in hopes to en-
snare people to read them, and to prevail upon
them so tar as to make them believe there is
somewhat extraordinary by the title. You see,
malice finds out all the ways in the world to
ensnare and gain upon the people, to so bad
an age are we come.
But I confess, it is the second time ever
since I had the fortune or happiness to know
this city of London, that I have known such
expectations as have been upon two causes in
this place: the first was but two days ago, the
second is at this time ; wherein is truly a sort
of countenance, I am afraid, too much given
by persons that dare pretend to be no other
' ' popery and arbitrary designs in the mean
' ' while. On the other hand, give me leave to
' ' tell you, my lords, the king hath no reason
' ' to distrust his people. No man can go
' ' home and say, that if the king comply with
'* his people, they will do nothing for hiin,
' ' but tear all up from him. We want a go-
"vernment, and we want a prince that we
' ' may trust even with the spending of half our
" annual revenues for some time, for the pre-
' ' servation of these nations.' . In malum et
' pernicrosissimum exemplum omnium alior* in
' tali casu delinquen', contra pacem diet* Don/
* Regis, coronam, et dignitat* suas. Unde idem
' Attornat' petit advisament* cor' in prsemissis,
' et debit' legis processoni.'
I hare not been able to ascertain whose
speech this professed to be.
* See these Observations, ante, p. 687.
Ii. iMQ.— for publishing a Libel. [9M
sort of protestaota, but can impudently outface
all sort of governors. Now, as all persons
ought to abhor and detest that damnable doc-
trine, That men hope to be saints in another
world, because they may commit murders in
this ; so this ought too as much to be condemn-
ed by all protest ants as the other, That men
shall endeavour to rebel, and be factious in this
world, that so they may be reckoned good sub-
jects, the one are as far from being good saints,
as the others from being good subjects. -
take this occasion to speak all this befoic
your lordship and this court, because i
hope the city ofXondon will never be corrupted
by the -base insinuations of some idle busy
bodies in it ; men, who cannot, or will not be
pleased, because, forsooth, every thing does not
go according to their mind and fancy ; aud
though by no means they will allow the pope to
he infallible, yet every factious fellow will ex-
pect, that every one should pay him the tribute
of infallible, as if he were the only fit person to
give measures^ government and governors.
When we come to have extraordinary cases
and persons, extraordinary occasions ought to
be taken to inflict due and just punishments
upon them. And when tbey shall dare to
come to disparage great men that act by su-
preme authority, men that act by their con-
sciences; and because they cannot be steered
by the humours of these sort of people,
therefore they must be looked upon as papists,
or at least as bribed because they, cannot
comply with that base humour which some sort
of persons have.
I take notice of this to your lordship, be-
cause one that is intrusted in as great a place
for the welfare of this nation, as any whosoever,
is extremely concerned in the affair of this day;
I mean, the Lord Chief Justice of the King's
Bench; who being assisted with several other
judges, as far forth as it did appear to him, did
deliver the sense of the whole court ; who,
for acting according to his conscience, and as
he ought to do, hath been libelled and re-
proached with as base a book as ever was
written against any magistrate whatsoever : if
such things as this shall be permitted, then
there will be an end of your lordship's sitting
here, or any wheie else, or of any other that
shall act as a magistrate ought to act, and that
shall not be afraid to do his duty. But such
is the happiness of this city, in this Jury, that, I
must confess, I receive so much the greater
satisfaction that it comes before them ; for as I
know the men to be men of loyalty and affec-
tion to the government, and will be so just to
him, that if they do not find him guilty of the
matter of the information, they will acquit him :
so, on the other side, tbey will not think them-
selves to be awed by a multitude, or enslaved
by private insinuations, to debauch their con-
sciences, either in respect to God above, or to
the king his vicegerent here on earth ; there-
fore observe your duty to both, that you may
render to Caesar the things that be Caesar's, as
well as to God the things that are God's. '
1
MS]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chauas II. 16SC— 7W*J of Francis Smith, [
Now us the king it God's vicegerent, to it
every magistrate the king's vicegerent, in that
particular.
I would not take np so much of your lord-
ship's time, but that I tee this it a matter of
great expectation ; and I know that every
word is taken in short hand, to be commented
upon as persons humours shall steer them. I
do think, at being the Mouth of the City of
London, it it my duty to speak thus much, that
I hope, nay, I may dare confidently affirm, that
the generality of the city of London, all
good men, and men of abilities, &c. are for
the king, and the government at it is now esta-
blished by law. [At which there was a ge-
neral hem through the court.] <«
Having said thus much against this person,
Mr. Francis Smith, I mutt say, That if the way
of common report were evidence enough to
convict a man, be would be convicted with-
out any more ado : but such it the hap-
piness of our laws, that they expect testi-
mony besides common famejQ I would ra-
ther a great deal it might be a caution to Mr.
Smith, if there had not been many before, and
that he could not be convicted, and the evi-
dence not plain in proof againtt him.
Well, he printed this book in the name of
another person, one Mrs. Brewster : He sold
several of them in quires to several people;
and Brewster questioning wherefore he should
put her name to this book : Truly, he said, be
intended no harm to her, for be was resolved
to save her harmless ; 'and this we will prove to
you ; and likewise that several books have been
taken in his shop ; and he justifying himself in
what he had done, and hit farther retolution to
expose them still to sale. And if we shall
prove this to you, there will be an end of all
sort of justice, if in case that you, who are the
only means of bringing men to justice, will not
contribute to have justice executed where it
ought to be : None can be legally punished,
unless they be legally convicted ; and I doubt
not your honesty and loyalty, but that you will
do your part by conviction, and by justice too.
Against all libellers, I am sure, there is law
enough, and every honest man will endeavour
to have it put. in execution against them, as far
forth as it lies in his way: I hope the generality
of those that are here, do come to shew an ab-
borrency against this person iuformed against,
and not to give any countenance to such base
actions.
Mr. Williams. (Counsel For the Defendant.)
My lord, the libel is sufficiently infamous, we
must needs own; and I do not come to justify
the thing, neither Mr. Smith my client, nor any
body else that should be guilty of it : The ques-
tion is, Whetber he be guilty of, &c. as it is
laid in the information t
Recorder. Sir, do you admit the Record ?
Just. Jones. If you do not admit it, you must
call in your witnesses, and prove what you can.
Whereupon Robert Stevens, Anne Brewster,
and Margaret Clark were called into Court,
and stood up bthiad the Jury.
Mr. Williams. Sir, if you will give me leave,
you shall bear what we will admit.
Recorder. Come, come, Sir, if you do not aunV
mit the Record, we will have none of yoer anti-
cipations.
•Mr. Williams. What call you your Speech
but anticipation ? My lord, the poor man,
client, is a languishing, tick and dying
and one that it almost ruined; if any Jo
sion will serve the turn, he will give all the
mission that it fit for a man te give: AH
we say is this, that he did not order tlus to be*
printed, as it is laid in the informtiesi. But I
think we may admit
Mr. Fettiplaee said (who was counsel on the
same side,) he had no such order given him bj
his client, as to admit the record.
Then they were just going on to swear the
witnesses, hut Mr. Just. Jones said, It would
be very well if they Would admit, Ate. and the
Defendant come to submission.
Recorder. Ay, that is your best way j for it
would be a great means to testify, that joux
submission is really intended as a submission. :
But if it be to prepare us to think that you are
innocent, then we will not have your submis-
sion. And I am for a sinner's repentance with
all ray heart.
Just. Janes. If your client be willing to sub-
mit, let the king have a verdict in law, and
then he will find my Lord Chief Justice Scroggt
full of pity and compassion; and if I can see
any signs of repentance, I will promise you to
intercede to my lord for him.
Mr. Williams. One that came from my client
told me, that if he had offended, he would sub-
rait to any thing: And now here is bis wife
come.
Just. Jones* I would save him if I can, if lie
will throw himself into mercy. Well, what do
you say, mistress, lor your husband ?
Mrs. Smith. My lord, my husband it very
tick and weak, and it not able to come him*
self, or else he would have done it; but I asked
Mr. Williams if it were not best to submit te
the Court.
Just. Jones. Are you content to own it shall
be so?
Mrs. Smith. I leave it to the gentlemen, my
"counsel; I shall acquiesce in what they thins
fitting.
Mr. Williams. Then I presume to admit the
Record.
Just. Jones. Then you are. to find for the
king: [Speaking to the Jury.] It it the cause
of the King, although only my hitd Chief Jus-
tice be concerned. It it a. high aaaudal ; a
great scandal against a great officer and magis-
trate of the king. I will say nothing more to
aggravate the offence at this time, because I
would invite repentance in all persons that have
offended in this or the like cases.
Then the Jury being asked, Whether they
were agreed on their verdict, said, Yee ; and
choosing their foreman to speak for tbesn, he
gave the Terdict, Guilty.
9JT} StATE TRIALS, SZCuamlmsU. lw*a~-ftr pmhimkmg * JUbeL [Mt
we eujoy or hope for, as it sntfcscndy maaisast
u> all men, escept those that are professed or
secret eaemiet to their country, who have so
industriously tooght your foidaftup's destruc-
tion ; whom God of hit great money to your*
self, aad the whole Protestant people of Eng-
land, preserve for a farther Meeaiag ; so prays
he, who ic in the deepest sense of yoor masri*
fold favours, my lord, your moat thankful, and
humble Servant, u Frajkjs Smiih."
To my ever to be esteemed, and just friends,
Mr. William Yearth, Mr. Richard Horn-
■ phreys, Mr. Samuel Lamett, Mr. Elite
Best, Mr. Henry Stephens, Mr. Theeaaa
Stephenson, Mr. Thomas Fos, Mr. Joha
Beare, Mr. Nicholas Godwin, Mr. Wm.
Meaiuns, Mr. Isaac Jackson, Mr. Henry
Rogers, Mr. Francis Soweraby, Mr, John
Barker, Mr. John Uoyd, Mr. William
Hussey, and Mr. Wm. Brown, late Grand
Jorors for the great City of London.
Joat. Janes. Well, mistress, yen have done
wavy well ; if, now, yon for yoor husband came
here to make a public acknowledgment of bis
ajiiUinoss, hereafter he shall 90, aad ingenuously
make submission to my lord ; I know be is a
person of that pity and compassion, that he
fovea no man's ruin, but delights rather in the
universal welfare of all people : And 1 promise
tlna, that I will be an intercessor to my lord in
your husband's behalf.
Recorder, And as far forth as I can contri-
Vstt to it, I wilt do the same.
He afterwards submitted to a small Fine.
Saw the Proceedings against the Judges, infra.
The following curious particulars of Smith's
character and history, and of this and other
proceedings against him, are taken from a
pamphlet, entitled,
" An Account of the injurious Proceedings of
Sir George Jeffreys, knt. late Recorder oT
London, against Fbamcis Smith, Book-
seller, with Ins arbitrary Carriage towards
the Grand Jury, at Guildhall, Sept. 16,
1680 ; upon an Indictment then exhibited
against the said Francis Smith, for pub-
lishing a pretended libel, entitled * An
4 Act of Common Council for Retrenching
* the Ex pence* of the Lord Mayor and
* Sheriffs of the City of London/ &c. To-
gether with on Abstract of rerj many
former Losses, and public Sufferings sus-
tained by him both in his Person and
Estate. Humbly submitted to the Con-
sideration of all true Englishmen. London >
Printed for Francis Smith, at the Elephant
and Castle, in Cornmll, near the itoyal
Exchange."
To the Right Honourable, and my very good
Lord, Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of
Shaftsbury, &c.
" My Lord ; As untbankfulness is deservedly
reckoned both by Christians and Heathens a
sin of the deepest die, so nothing gives a greater
lustre to noble personages than those acts of
grace and goodness which they extend to their
inferiors needing their help and succour.— -And
I having in many cases experienced your lord-
ship's kindness towards me and my family ; I
cannot, without incurring the guilt ol the
fgrmer, but make my thankful acknowledge-
ments to your honour as any occasion offers
itself; and therefore could not omit this duty
at this time, when I am making public an ab-
stract of my sufferings ; in many of which I
have been much helped through your lordship's
goodness, as may appear in this short Narra-
thntw»And my good lord, I am under also deep
obtigarioas to your honour, not only upon my
private and single account, but as I am a poor
We testae t member of this languishing nation ;
being, with til Englishmen that are truly such,
deeply obliged to your leidship's wisdom, cou-
rage and sedulity, for all the public benefit*
" Worthy Citizens; When I call to mind
the many grievous oppressions that have be-
fallen me, by malicious informations, and un-
just proceedings, whereof I present you here a
short Narrative ; and withal, how I have seen
other men and their families, in a prosperous
way of living, ruined, and brought to poverty,
bv either the inconsiderateness or cowardice
or Jurers, who have hearkened more to the
dictates of the Bench, than to the reason and
nature of the case before them. I caonot but
exceedingly admire the good providence of the
Almighty towards me, in calling you to the
office ef Grand Inquest for the city of London,
at that time when the Indictment, hereto
annexed, was preferred against me ; you, I
say, whom neither subtile suggestions, wheed-
ling speeches, nor loud and often- repeated re-
proaches and threats could work upou, to draw
you aside from the true judgment of your own
consciences. For no man can reasonably im-
pute your verdict and constancy to any other
cause : I am sure I bad no previous acquaiat-
ance, or interest in any one of you, which
might in the least bias your affections towards
me. And the Indictment was drawn with so
much slight and cunning, that if your wisdom
and integrity had not prevented, in not finding
the Bill, I could not but expect that any in-
ferior jury would find me guilty, and I should
have been delivered up to the fierce ambition
of a male-content judge : so that I do, indeed,
owe to you, next under God, the preservation
of me and my family from bondage and mi-
sery: for which I and mine, shall be ever
obliged to praise God ; and so praying for all
your prosperities, I heartily subscribe myself,
your thankful Servant,
" Fbajtcis Sbcitk."
The Case of Fbancis Smith, Bookseller, &c.
In August, 108O> a small book was pub-
lished, entitled, " An Act of Coramon-Cottaoil/'
formerly made, and not smee repealed) for ff-
WJ]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Trial ,qf Franeis Smith,
[94U
trenching the expences of the lord major, and
sheriffs ; with Ten Reasons, for potting the said
Act in present execution ; for which publica-
tion, I was bound over to the sessioos of peace
held at Guild-ball, London,on the eighth day of
September following ; where one of the said
books, (with this annexed bill of indictment,)
was- presented to the grand jury, held for the
city of London.
" London, s$. Memorandum, that at a ge-
' neral quarter sessions of the peace, of our lord
the king, held for the city of London, at the
Guild-hall of the same city, and within the
same city, on Wednesday, viz. the 8th day of
September, in the 38d year of the reign
of our lord Charles the second, by the grace
of God of England, Scotland, France and
Ireland, king, defender of the faith, &c. Before
Robert Clayton, knt. lord mayor of the city of
London, sir Thomas Allen, knt. and bart. sir
George Waterman, knt. alderman of the city
aforesaid; and others their associates, justices
of our said lord the king, for the keeping of the
peace of the city aforesaid ; also for the per-
petrating, hearing and determinating divers fe-
lonies, transgressions, and other trespasses
within the said city done. A certain bill of in-
dictment, against one Francis Smith, late of
London, bookseller; then and there exhibited,
to William Yearth, Richard Humphreys, Sa-
muel Lamott, Elias Best, Henry Stephens,
Thomas Stephenson, Thomas Fox, John Beare,
Nicholas Godwin, William Meakings, 'Isaac
Jackson, Henry Rogers, Francis Sowersby, John
Barker; John Lloyd, William Hussey, aud Wil-
liam Browne, Jurors, then and there appear-
ing, impannelled and sworn, to enquire for our
said lord the king, and the body of the city
aforesaid ; by which returned jury, was thus
endorsed (Ignoramus,) which said bill followeth
in these words, viz.
London, ss. The Jurors for our lord the king
upon their osths„present, that Francis Smith,
late of London, bookscller,being a man seditious
and pernicious, plotting and intending the peace
and common tranquillity of this kingdom, to
disturb, and discord, differences, and ill will,
amongst the citizens, and inhabitants of the city
of London, to stir up, provoke, and procure ;
also the mayor, aldermen and sheriffs of the
city of London, now in being, and the mayor,
aldermen, and sheriff's of the city of London, for
the time past,in great odium,contempt, and base
account to bring; the same Francis Smith the
17th day of August, in the reign of our sove-
reign lord, Cliarles the Second, by the grace of
God, of England, Scotland, France, aud Ireland,
king, defender of the faith, &c. the 32nd, at
London, viz. in the parish of St. Michael Corn-
hill in the ward of Cornhill, London, aforesaid,
with force and arms>&c. unlawfully, wickedly,
maliciously, scandalously, and seditiously,
1>rinted, and caused to be printed, a certain ma-
icious, scandalous, and seditious book, of and
concerning the expences of the lord mayors
aldermen and sheriffs of the city aforesaid, in
their houses, in the time of their several offices;
/ intituled, " An act of Common-Council of the
city of London, (made in the first and Second
years of the reign of Philip and Mary,) for re-
trenching of the ex pences of the Lord Mayor and
sheriffs, &c. Published with additional reasons
for putting the said act in present execution,
and now offered to the consideration of all good
citizens, by some well wishers of the present
and future prosperity of the said city. Presented
to my lord mayor, aldermen and sheriffs." In
which book by the said Francis Smith, then so
as aforesaid ; he published, printed, and caused
to be printed ; the same Francis Smith, then
and there, viz. the day and year before men-
tioned, at the parish and ward aforesaid, mis-
chievously, unlawfully, wickedly, maliciously,
scandalously and seditiously printed, made
known openly, and published, mischievously,
malicious, scandalous, and seditious sentences,
in these English words following, viz.
" Reader ; As by the act you may observe,
that our predecessors taking notice, that the ex-
travagancies of mayors aud sheriffs, caused (as
they say,) almost all good citizens to fly, and
refuse the service ; so to prevent that mischief
in the future, they limited them in their living
to the method directed by this act. And if
when little was spent besides the growth of our
own country , beer and ale being then their drink,
they thought it their wisdom to set bounds to
luxurious profuseness,there is much more reason
for it now, when debauchery is come to that
height, that the fifth part of the charge of a
shrievalty is in wine, the growth of another
country. And when feasts, hardly beard of in
former times, are risen to that excess, as would
be scandalous to mention, as those called the'
Chequer and Spittle feasts; the first costiog in
wine betwixt 70 and 80/. and the latter, after
the pretended service of God in hearing a ser-
mon, costs above 300/. to each sheriff. And
though much after this rate is the rest of the
year spent ; yet when the example of this act
is urged for laying aside these sinful feasts, and
reducing the rest unto this pattern, which is a
wholsome law ; some, who should see to the
putting it in execution, will not hear of it ; and
possibly, because they would have others be as
profuse as themselves have been, though there
are these reasons for reformation herein.*'
Aud these mischievous, malicious, and sedi-
tious sentences, in these English words follow-
ing, viz.
" Because nothing can tend more to the ad-
vancement of any city or country, than the*
having wise and good magistrates ; and that
so long as the great expenee of shrievalties con-
tinue, the city must, (as this act suggests,) have
an eye to wealth, more than parts or virtue, in
the. choice of their sheriffs; and that such as
their sheriffs are, such will the court of aldermen
be : and therefore as necessary for the good go-
vernment of this great city, the charge of shrie-
valties ought to be reduced to such an order
and method, as may be an encouragement to
3 en of more honesty than riches to serve ths
. ace."
941]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaubs II. 1680.— for publishing a Libel [949
And these mischievous, malicious, scandalous,
Mid seditious seniencee, in these English words
following, viz.
" No man hath reason to be expensive in his
shrievalty ; because though the court of alder-
men hath a rule for supplying, (as any die,) their
vacant. places out of those that have served she-
riffs, yet tbey make their election to depend
upon the uncertain humour of their court,
thereby frustrating (when they please) all com*
pensation for the expence aud drudgery of a
shrievalty, as late appeared in their choice of
sir Simon Lewis, one of their present sheriffs,
rejecting sir Thomas Stamp, who had served the
place several years before with good appro-
bation, and was presented to them by the ward
be lives in as adeserving person. And whereas
each ward, when they want an alderman, do
present two commoners to the court, for them
to chuse one ; the ward of Bassishaw, to the
end that sir Thomas might unavoidably be
chosen, joined the younger, (and not the elder)
sheriff with him, not thinking that an old sheriff
would be baulked, to chuse one that had not
served his year ; and yet notwithstanding, the
court by their prerogative passed by sir Thomas
to the disappointing of the ward that sent him.
And this example, is, (I suppose) a good reason
for sheriffs in the future not to spend more in
their shrievalties than is necessary, when their
reward is so uncertain/'
And these mischievous, malicious, scandalous,
and seditious sentences, in these English words
following, viz.
" Debauchery in this expence is a sin before
God, and were it known, would be n scandal in
the sight of man ; as appears, in that of 3,000/.
expence in all manner of ways, abote 500/.
is in wine ; w hen a lord, or gentleman that for-
merly lived at the rate of 10 or 12,000/. per
annum, did not, as is well known (but thirty
years ago) spend 100/. in wine."
To the great scandal and contempt of our
said lord the kiup, to the great reproach and
scandal of ihe authority of the mayor, aldermen
and sheriffs, of the city aforesaid ; to the great
disturbance of the peace of our said lord
the king, to the evil example of others in
tne like case offeuding, and against the peace
of the said lord the king, his crown and dignity,
&c. (Ignoramus.) Wagstaffe.
The Grand Jury having taken this Sacred Oath,
hereunto annexed, in these words:
' Tou shall diligently inquire, and true pre-
' sentment make of all such things and matters,
1 as shall be given you in charge, or shall come
* to your knowledge, concerning this present
* service ; The king's council, your fellows, and
1 your own, you shall well and truly keep se-
* cret ; you shall present nothing for malice, or
1 evil will that you bear to any person ; neither
' shall you leave any thing tin presented, for fa*
* vour nor affection, reward, or any hopes there-
r of; bur in things that shall concern this pre-
' sent service, you shall present the truth, the
'- whole truth, and nothing but the truth, ac-
' cording to your best skill and knowledge, so
' help you God.9
The grand jury having taken this sacred oath
judged themselves under a religious obligation,
well to deliberate both upon the book and the
indictment ; 'and finding the book (to the best
of their skill aud knowledge,) of no other ten-
dency, but to encoarage such as were virtuous
to take upon them the government of the city
of London, with such good husbandry, and
sober methods, as might neither dishonour God,
by excess in feastings, nor yet ruin their own
families.
And finding a bill of indictment brought
against me at the same time, for publishing the
said book ; charging it with the odious names,
of a malicious, scandalous, and seditious book,
and myself as printer and publisher, with the
like monstrous titles, of being a man pernicious,
seditious, plotting and intending the peace and
common tranquillity of this kingdom, to disturb,
aud with force and arms, unlawfully, wickedly,
maliciously, and seditiously, to print and pub*
lish the said book.
Did all with one unanimous voice agree, that
they could not in their conscience bring it in
any otherwise than Ignoramus, and so threw it
out.
sTbis sessions of peace being that day ad-
journed, till the 16th day of the same month.
The jury then had the bill brought them in
again, with their Ignoramus scraped out, as the
jury since have declared ; upon which they exa-
mined the officer (who was witness to the bill,)
whether he would swear that he believed in his
conscience Mr. Smith did print and publish this
book, maliciously, and seditiously, with an in-
tent to disturb the peace of our lord the king in
this city, to which the officer replied, ' He durst
* not swear that *for his life'; upon this they
unanimously agreed to write ignoramus again
upon the bill, and so returned it.
Upon which sir George Jefferies, then re-
corder, was much enraged, and gave the jury
many hard words, refusing to accept their verdict,
and returned them again the third time, whh the
said bill. But they (in their conscience, seeing
no reason to alter their verdict, returned the
bill again, Ignoramus.
Upon which sir Geofcge Jefferies vilified and
reproached the grand jury very shamefully in
the open court ; upbraiding them with calling
the witness to repeat the evidence over again,
and then commanded a clear bar, saying, God
bless me from such jurymen, I will see the face
of eve*y one of then), and let otheis see them
also; further adding, I will hear them repeat
every ma** of them, their own sense of this bill,
thus exposing them to all possible contempt.
The Bar being thus cleared, and the grand
jury of substantial citizens thus exposed, as if
they had been a pack of men, void of honesty
and conscience.
Then the clerk of the peace according to sir
George Jefferies command, calls every man by
name, and asked them whether Francis Smith*
.
MS] STATE TRIALS, Sfi Charles II. Ifim— 7WaJ tffHmek Sm&, (444
was GeHty of the biH brought before them
Against bim, or Not Guilty ? upon which every
man, one by one, being seventeen in number,
ssharood ImWetmos.
Upon litis sis George Jefieries in a moat at*
hitrary maimer, told the Jury they were upon
their oaths, and bad gone contrary, which was
their sin of perjury, Uasphemoosly saying, It
was impossible for God worn heaven to pardon
their perjury.
But the jery persisted in their verdict, and
gave no reflection.
Sir George being thus enraged, that he could
not bend the jury from their just and honest
verdict, calls oat in the court for Mr. 9snith,
the person indicted, to come in; upon which
immediately I appeared to know sir George his
pleasure ; who replies, Mr. Smith, yon have the
countenance of an ingenious person, here are
two persons that this Jury have brought in Ig-
noramus, besides yourself, and yet they are so
ingenious as to confess the indictment against
them ; and for their ingenuity they shall find
the grace and favour of this court, and 1 cannot
think to fine them little enough, they shall be
fined but twopence a piece for their ingenuity
in confessing.
Well, come Mr. Smith, follow their exam-
ples ; you see what they have done -before your
fisce ; and let me tell yon, we know who hath
owned both printing and publishing this book
formerly ; and therefore now, shew yoarself as
you seem to be, an ingenious person, and
confess, sad try the grace and favour of this
court, and shame the jury that hath brought in
a verdiet contrary to plain evidence.
To this I /epiied ; Sir, my ingenuity hath suf-
ficiently experienced the reward of your seve-
rity already formerly ; and besides, 1 know no
law commends me to accuse myself, neither
shall I ; and the jury have done like true
Englishmen, and worthy citizens ; and blessed
be God for such a just jury.
At my reply, sir peorge was greatly enraged,
and although I had been three times quieted
l)y the jury, yet he committed me again to the
beepers of Newgate, saying, provide presently
very good security, for I will assure you, I will
have speciaLsecurity for you, and till then you
shall stand committed : take him into custody :
I was three hours thus detained in the custody
of one or more of their keepers, and finding no
remedy or relenting* from him, was forced to
give bail by two responsible citieens upon their
oaths, as to their ability ; and then bound us
three in a great sum for my appearance at the
next ensuing sessions of peace ; and not con-
tent with that, he did bind me to my good be-
haviour also. .»
Meeting with such severity from sir George
Jeaeries, I thought it high time to be better pre-
pared against the neat sessions following ; and
therefore applied myself to the clerk of the
peace, desiring a copy of the bill against me,
that I might advise with some counsel teamed
upon it, (being now well satisfied sir George
was resolved, if possible, to ruin me.) The
clerk replied it was very large and would cost
me eight-pence per sheet ; but if I would bare
it, it should be copied out in two days time;
when accordingly I came, his answer wan, that
sir George Jefieries the recorder had forbidden
htm to let me have a copy, and be durst not
without sir George's order; and therefore ad-
vised me to go to sir George himself, and tell
bim that I had come to the clerk for a copy,
and he durst not grant it without his order;
having been forbid by him, after the said derk
had promised me.
Then I repaired to sir George day after day,
at least ten times ; and several of those times
two neighbours with me ; understanding it was
by law my right to demand it, paying their
price. One day I waited from ten till two
o'clock, before I could have any answer from
him, and then his clerk brought me word, for
he would not speak with me himself, that hie
master was aodtsposed, and would speak with
nobody of business that day. The neat day I
requested a neighbour .to go on my behalf, the
sessions approaching, and I ignorant of the
charge against me, to whom sir George return-
ed answer by his clerk, it was none of hie bost-
ness, and I must take the course the law di-
rected, for a copy. Then I went to counsel,
and was informed that no subject ought to be
denied a copy of his indictment, paying for it.
Upon this I took my nest opportunity at the
sessions held for Newgate in the Old Bailey,
and there made my appeal to the Lord Chief
Justice Scroggs, in the bearing of sir George
Jefteries; complaining what hard measure I
had received from bim. Haviug watted above
SO times upon him and the derk of the peace,
in fruitless journies, for I could not obtain a
copy of mv indictment, having been thrice in-
dicted, ana as often acquitted.
The Judge told me in open Court, it was ac-
cording to law, that I and every subject ought
to have a copy of their* indictment, though
brought in Ignoramui; and the reason of
the law was, that they might for wrong dooa
them, seek their remedy. Sir George replied,
' His private house was not a court, and there*
' fore be was not to meddle with ordering any
' such thing there,' (but here it is to be noted,
his private house was a place fit to forbid me
a copy, which is contrary to law, but not a fit
place to do tbe right he is sworn to between
king and subjects according to law ;) having at
last by the judge's order, obtained a copy no
less than 17 sheets, charging me to be a -man
seditious and pernicious, plotting, and intend-
ing the peace and common tranquillity of this
kingdom of England to disturb, and with rosea
and arms, unlawfully, wickedly, mahciousiy,
scandalously and seditiously, to print and paw-
lish the Act aforesaid.
And all my crime, if any, is bat re-printing
an " Act of Common Council for retrenching
tbe Expenctisof Mayors and Sberin«,vrith tbe
Addition of Ten Reasons, why it should be put
in present Execution ;" For the encouragement
of virtuous men, to take upon them the gneeat.
Ml STATE TWAL& 32Ciuu.ttU. 1680-Jbr pMkhing a LibcL
[946
sent of the city of London, with such good
husbandry and soher methods, as might neither
dishonour God by excessive (eastings, nor jet
rain their own families.
Which book, notwithstanding sir George
Jefieries's opinion of it, hath met with a very
general acceptance amongst sober citizens, of
Che heat quality ; and both himself and some
others, could, if they please, witness the same ;
Yet direr* such persons have wondered to
tfaem; and at them, for what they should be so
much offended, or indeed why at all ; much
more so to harrass me with multiplied charges
evasions; after sessions, and with con tinned re*
fttraints, and bail upon bail ; and above all,
distracting my thoughts continually, and wast-
ing ray time from my shop and trade, to the
impairing of my livelihood, through such fre-
quent absence from ray calling, to my damage,
90 times more than all the money I have been
forced to expend.
And at last when (suitable to sir George's big
words to me, and exacting such high bail for me,
with his terrify tog proceedings against the jorv,
to the amssement of the spectators, and grati-
fying his ambitious humours in contempt, and
to the violation of our good English laws,) I
expected to have been brought to trial by the
next ittpaanelled jury the last sessions.
Sir George let fall the proceedings, and or-
dered me to be acquitted by proclamation;
and when I applied myself since to him for re-
paration ; his answer is, He knew not of any
wrong or injury he had done me.
And when since for high misdemeanours he
was summoned before the honourable com-
mittee of Parliament, he did so much forget
himself and the great duty of a Recorder, as to
•ay in the hearing of the grand' jury, and my-
self being there present, to that honourable
committee, upon his own defence, That he had
not so much as read the book.
What not read f be book, and vet permit and
appoint me, after a grand jury of credible citi-
zens bad acquitted me, to be indicted twice in
one day, and after the same grand jury bad so
acquitted me three times, to treat them rather
like French slaves, than free-born Englishmen.
And because I would not follow his dictates,
against law and reason, and my own consci-
ence, to give that worthy jury all the lie, by
saying I was guilty, to commit me into the cus-
tody-of the keeper of Newgate, where I was
under restraint above three hours ; end after
that would not discharge me, till I had given
great bail ; nor then neither, without binding
me to ray good behaviour till the next follow-
ing sessions; And all this upon an implicit
faith.
For the hook he confessed he had not read,
nor knew the contents of.
From such a Judge, and snch a Recorder of
London, and such Judgment, good Lord deliver
me, and may every true citizen and right Eng-
lishman, say Amen.
Now having given this candid account of my
prosecution of me, for a matter wherein I was
justified by my own conscience, many, if not'
all, ingenious men that considered it, and even
by the grand jury of the great city of London,
after so base and often repeated horrid treat-
ments of them to the contrary ; insomuch that
if they had not been constant and resolute men,
as wed as honest, I had m all likelihood been
ruined with my family.
> I hope it may not be grievous to the reader,
if I give some short account of many former
sufferings, from men of like spirit with the Re-
corder, and the great damage which myself and
family have incurred thereby ; which I do the
rather mention, because I have good grounds
to believe my case is much mistaken by some,
for want of true information. *
[He then relates his sufferings under the im-
putation of being a disaffected person and a
fanatic, in the year 1659, shortly after general
Monk came to London ; other sufferings in the
next year, concerning a small book, called.
"The Lord's Loud Call to England/' and
other small books ; and farther sufferings upon
false information that he was in Vernier's ris-
ing : and after that be proceeds :]
In August, 1661, a certain book was printed
and published, intkled, * Mirabilis Annus,9 or
the year of Prodigies. Then did a person of
quality yet living, give me great encouragement
for its publication, as a book grateful to the
authority, and of general caution to the na-
tion, both to behold and consider the works of
God, and also to tremble for fear of his jodg»
meats ; but it so happened contrary to my ex-
pectation, that the very day it was published,
one of his majesty V messengers came to my
shop, with a warrant both to seke the book
and my person, and carried me before the then
Secretary of State, where after examination, I
was committed to the Gatehouse prison by this
warrant inserted.
It is his majesty's pleasure that you take
into your custody the person of Francis Smith,
Stationer, for having a hand in printing and
compiling dangerous books, and that you keep
him close prisoner till further order from uss
majesty, and for so doing, this shall be your
warrant. Dated at the court at Whitehall this
1 5th day of August, 166 1 . Edw. Nicholas,
To the Keeper of the Gatehouse,
Westminster, or his Deputy.
This word in my warrant ' close prisoner/
proved a fatal word to me, as many still living
can witness, for the keeper improved it to a
tittle ; there I was truly buried alive, it being*
prison famous for oppression of poor prisoners,
as many besides myself can notoriously witness.
For as soon as I was brought thither, a stern
gaoler locked me up, and said, I must not see,
nor have the liberty of any relations to .visit
me, without special order from the Secretary
first obtained. This looked like cold enter-
tainment to one unacquainted with such a con«
trouble and charge, by reason of this fierce dition. But this, and much more I found m
•- vet. rn. I S'P . •. . »
947] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles 1L \6S0.— Trial qf Francis &fdth, [9tf
truly performed, as promised, beiog locked up
io a room, where I had neither chair nor stool
to rest on, and yet ten shillings per week must be
the price, and before I had been there three
nights, ?/. 15t. was demanded for present fees.
That is to say, &ve pounds to excuse me from
wearing irons, ten shillings for my entrance
week lodging, five shillings sheets, five shillings
garnish money, the rest for turnkey fees ; upon*
which I gave this answer, that I did not under-
stand any just cause for imprisonment, much
less to pay such fees, and for wearing of irons
I would not pay five groats to be excused, if he
could by law impose irons on roe, I would wear
them. Upon this many cruel endeavours were
used, whereby to exact consent of these fees
from me ; and my afflicted wife not suffered to
speak with me but in the presence of the keeper,
after chargeable orders, for so much privilege
first obtained, nay many times orders denied tor
my friends admittance; in the presence of the
keeper, and ray window casements must be
nailed up, that I should not have the benefit of
that common air, which is every slave's birth-
right. And when provision was sent for my
necessary support, yet was that many times
kept back and frequent fasts imposed upon me,
and what was sent for my dinner at 12 o'clock,
must be given me four or five hours after, which
I usually breakfasted with, and should be sure
to want beer or bread, so I was forced to de-
vise a way by a bag and a string to be let down
in the night at a window, to convey some ne-
cessary food to me. Thing* continued thus se-
veral weeks, in which time for receiving a note
at the keyhole by an open prisoner, sent from
my poor wife then sick and weary with grief,
audi successless travels at my release, f was
taken out of this room, and locked up in a
trap-door room, about 20 days, where I could
hardly be heard with hallooing, it being
a place for such as were condemned to
die ; to be usually secured in. At this time,
above- thirty pound was spent to attempt my
release, but all ineffectual.
Then was application made to the judges of
the King's Bench, Westminster, and I bad
three chargeable Habeas Corpus's before the
cruel gaoler would obey to bring me to the bar,
where upon my appearance, care was taken,
that I earrietthrmy band the copy of my com-
mitment, amr presented it to the Lord Chief
Justice Forster, who- gave patient hearing to all
my complaints, disdaining the usage I had met
with, and told the keeper, if it should happen
. before my legal release I should die by such
usage, the keeper should be indicted for his life.
At this- time- to my great amazement, a new
copy of commitment was produced in court,
the contents whereof hesefbUowcih:.
The prison of the Gatehouse, Westminster.
I EdwarJ Broughton, knight, keeper of the-
. ensoo of our lord the king of the Gatehouse
. Westminster in. the county of Middlesex to the
lord the king humbly camfieth, that before the
coming of the writ to me directed to this
schedule annexed, to wit, the fifteenth day of
August in the year of the reign of our said lord
the king that now is, 6zc. the 13th, Frauds
Smith in the said writ named, was taken at
Westminster in the county of Middlesex, and
there in the prison of our said lord the king of
the Gatehouse aforesaid, under my costody de*
tained by virtue of a certain warrant to me di-
rected. The tenor whereof fblloweth in these
words i
" These are to will and require you in bis
majesty's name, to take into your custody, and
safely keep the body of Francis Smith of Lon-
don, stationer, for that traitorously and sedi*
tiously he compiled, printed, and published a
treasonable and seditious book, intitled Several
prodigies and apparitions seen in the beaveos
from August 1st 1660, to the latter end of May
1661, contaiaing a collection of several former
prodigies, mischievous events thereupon ts
princes and a fbrgeryofdivers late false and feign-
ed prodigies and impostures of the same kiad^
prognosticating thereby the like events tohis ma-
jesty, and thereby did traitorously and seoV
tiously instill into the hearts of his majesty1!
good subjects, a superstitious belief thereof,
and a disuke and hatred of his majesty's person
and government, and prepared them to effect a
damnable design for the destruction of his
sacred majesty, and to introduce a change of
the government established ; and for so doing,
this shall be your warrant ; Given at ourcoort
at Whitehall the 16th day of August ; 1661, .
Edward Nicholas, To the keeper of the prison
of the Gatehouse, Westminster or his Deputy.
And this is the cause of the taking and detaining
of the said Francis Smith in the prison of our
lord the king, under my custody, whose hodr
at the day and place in the said writ contained,
I nave ready as by the said writ is commanded
Edwabd Baouonro*, km.*
My counsel pleaded they knew nothing of
that copy till now, and gave evidence that the
copy I produced was taken from the clerk of
the prison, for which he had 5s. upon which I
was remanded back again to prison, till the
next term following ; and here it may be re-
membered as an addition to the habit of cruelty
attending that prison; (the gaoler notwithstand-
ing what the Lord Chief Justice Forster bad
said to him) forced me to go down into the
dungeon for above 20 days because I could not
raise him 7/. towards chamber rent at that u>
stant. Then upon reuewed complaints and
counsel charge, obtained order to be taken out
of the dungeon, and put up stairs into a cham-
ber where I was again turned - out within »
week, at 8 o'clock at night, while my poor wife
and two of my children were eating, ano'tbey tt
that time of tbe night in the depth of winter,
forced to seek their lodging amongst strangers
in Tothill street Westminster, and myself con-
strained to lie upon the bare boards in an open
entry, where I continued tbe rest of my.*"*
till bailed out, being several weeks, sometime?
lying on the ground; the rest in a hammock*
WSJ STATE TRIALS, 32 Chamjm II. mo.—for pubtiMng a UbeL
CMQ
In this time I was teat for to Whitehall, and in i
the presence of a, gentleman of quality jet liv-
ing, and several others, was offered 100/. and
present discharge, bat to declare my knowledge
(upon an imprecation) of the authors or printers
of the aforesaid book. Yet rather than occa-
sion hurt to any, gave myself up to their ut-
most displeasure ; and had recourse to many
chargeable Habeas Corpus's before I could ob-
tain bail. By this imprisonment I lost my shop,
and trade for two years, to above 300/. charge
and damage, towards which I can truly say to
this day, f never had directly or indirectly to
the value of SO/, reparation from any person or
persons whatsoever ; though it hath been
often suggested both by persons in authority
and others, that competitors bore me out, which
-occasioned my bonds to be aggravated.
Since that time I have had ten chargeable re*
attaints in the king's messengers hands at a noble
• day, one of which in the months of July and
August I was so often and daily harrassed to
and fro by Mr. L'Estrange's order between
Whitehall and the messeagerVbouse where 1
was prisoner upon fruitless journeys, neither
•obtaining bail nor discharge for 19 days toge-
ther, that brought me under such a fit of sick-
ness with a fever as reduced me to be distract-
ed to that degree that I was held in my bed by
-strength, the truth* of which Mr. L Estrange
may very well remember, for he often both
came and sent, I being in appearance never like
to go abroad again, being so impaired that
my" taste, bearing, and memory are much
^weakened, to this day. The real charge and
damage I sustained by this restraint and sick-
ness, in my shop and trade 100/. will not repair.
Upon that severe act against conventicles, in
1671, I had J 40/. warrants against me, for
being taken at several times at religious. protec-
tants meetings,. upon which I lost my shop and
trade above six months, being so eagerly per*
sued by one justice Sabbs and his informers,
as forced me by night to remove my goods from
place to place nine several times, to prevent
seizure, which cost me and lost me above
160/.
Here be it remembered that from the meeting
place where he took me, and others often, he
also in an illegal manner brought workmen, and
cart, and tore down, seised, and carried away
a large gallery, with all the seats and forms in
the said roeetiog, converting them to wt^at use
be pleased for himself, or bis favourites ; com-
ing often also to enquire of the oificers of the
parish, where I dwelt, why there was not a sen
sure made ; threatning them with a penalty in
the act, as persons negligent, and when it was
replied my door was still kept locktthat they
could not obtain entrance; and ibey had been
with the Lord Chief Justice Ksiling for advice,
who told them unless they could lay felony,
murder or treason to my charge, the law would
not bear them out to break open the doors
while shut against them, upon the penalty
of the conventicle act, upon- which, the said
justice Sabbs replied, Can you not get some un-
happy boys to go in At his windows and open
the door, and then you may make seizure of
his' goods; thus the conservator , of the peace
prompts the civil officers to break the peace
contrary to his oath, to oppress for filthy lucre
sake.
Some time after, two persons came to me,
The other nine restraints and tedious attend- \ to procure the printing of a certain book, en*
titled, That neither temporalities, nor tythes, is
due to the bishops, prelates nor clergy, by anv
gospel role, and that kings, princes, and lords
temporal may justly take the temporalities and
tythes from them, and dispose of them for the
defence and benefit of the kingdom, aud the
relief of the poor, proved* by the laws and prac-
tices of twenty kings of England, Judab, and
France, and also by 190 authors besides, dedi-
cated to the king's most excellent majesty:
Ooe of them affirming be had great encourage-
ments not fit here to mention ; upon which
I readily complied, but before it was finished,
I was discovered, taken into custody, by Mr.
L*£strange with a general warrant and carried
to Lambeth house, to appear before the then
bishop, but without hearing was dismist, and
remanded to Whitehall, but never came to a
hearing, yet harrassed to and fro, and kept
undischarged for twenty weeks, sometimes in
custody, and sometimes at liberty, to my real
charge and damage at least 60/.
About a book called The Appeal from the
cabal at Whitehall, to the parliament at West-
minster ; and the book called The Serious Que-
ries against the conventicle act, proving it to bo
against the laws of God, of nature, and of
Magna Charta ; for which I was committed
into the custody of five of the king's metsengess
upon his majesty's council, and secretaries,
together with diet and lodging at messengers
houses, with charges of council orders and mes-
sengers warrants* and fees, cost me above 112/.
lie then tells of his sufferings unde'r the
representatioa of being a disaffected person in
the year 1665, and proceeds thus.
Immediately before that dreadful fire, that
papists brought upon London, in 1666. One M r.
Lfflycrop a printer, and another, both servants
to Mr. I/Estrange as his assistants in survey-
ing the press, came to my shop and warehouse
near Temple bar with their general warrant to
seise unlicensed books, and took off Mr. Allen's,
Mr. Bunyao's, and other, with a number of
printed depositions against the* papists, shewing
their attempts and acts in the several fires,
barely as unlicensed; through the prejudice,
the licencers were pleased to take against the
authors, constrained my printing them without
licence, being books neither against church nor
state; Nevertheless, they took as many as two
sorters could stand under, and carried them to
Mr. L'Estrange's lodging, then at the king's
wardrobe; Some of which with much difficulty
and charge was obtained again ; the rest it is
•supposed the fire took, to my real damage
above 50/„
951] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial tfPrancii Smith,
(991
by the council board, to above 50/. cbarge and
damage.
In December, 1C73, one Mr. Ralph Carter,
nod Mr. Wick ha in, messengers, came to my
■hop near the Royal Exchange, with a warrant
tn letch me to Whitehall, where immediately
they promised me either discharge or dismis-
sion upon' bail to Attend some urgent occasions
then la? on me. Bat instead of bringing, me
to any hearing, conveyed me to a messenger's
house, where I was detained three nights and
three days ; upon which perceiving their design
to pntmeto charges, I contented myself with-
out either bed, fire or food, excepting a couple
•f rolls privately obtained, and one pound of
raisins of the sun, resolving that way to tire
them out, either to accept my security for forth
coming when authority pleased, or immediately
be brought to hearing; at length I. was con*
•trained to threaten them, that if they kept me
longer, I should call out at windows, and raise
the streets upon them, for such illegal confine-
ment j which at length after considerable con*
test for fees, I addressed myself to authority in
this following petition.
To the right honourable the Earl of Arlino-
tov, Principal Secretary of State: The
Case and Complaint of Francis Smith #
Hambly sheweth; That on. Tuesday the
tnd of this instant December, by virtue of a
General Warrant from your honour, I was ap-
prehended by Mr. Ralph Carter, messenger,
and from that time detained as a close prisoner
till Friday following in a messenger's house,
denying me (notwithstanding my urgent and
pressing occasions) to appear before your lord-
ship in order to iny examination, which was to
my damage 40/. and upwards.
. That Mr, Carter denied me a copy of the
warrant, or liberty with a keeper to appear at
my shop to seal two bonds, and deliver several
goods for.Barbadoes, to the probable hazard of
mining my trade as well as credit; although
my necessity was at that time so urgent that I
offered. Mr. Carter 1,000/!. bail for my appear-
ance before your honour ; but lie refused it, and
confidently affirmed it was your honours parti-
cular order I should be so detained.
That after your honour's favour was obtained
for my appearance at Whitehall on Friday, and
his majesty's gracious favour to discharge me
upon bail, (Notwithstanding Mr. Carter's great
incivilities to me) I gave him 80s. for bis fee,
who nevertheless on Monday the8tb of Decem-
ber instant, came after me into the city, where
he demanded seven nobles more, the which he
.said he would have; and there in a very inso-
lent manner (with many meoacings, too tedious
here to insert) affirmed I was his prisoner still,
and that he would force me down to Whitehall
in a coach, if I would not five him his aforesaid
demands; saying, Let me see who daies take
you out of my bands ; And the better to obtain
the same, (as I imagine) did falsly and inalici-
cously pretend J hat I bad spoken dangerous
words again* the kirg and government; sup-
posing thereby to affrigl* me, that I might com-
ply with such his illegal demands.
That upon these proceeding I repaired to
counsel learned, who advised, That I might
bind Mr. Carter to his good behaviour and ie»
diet him; but your honour's complainant was
not inclined to any such proceeding*, till I bad
spread my complaint before your honoar: la
order to which, 1 repaired to Whitehall on
Tuesday following, and -was "there assaulted,
and attempted to be seized by Mr. Carter is
the open court again and again ; hot I refas*
ing to go with, or submit to him, was pursued
by him from thence almost to Pallmall, and
there again was violently assaulted, forced, and
dragged to a prison-house, tearing my coat sad
cloak, which caused a treat tumult; whereupon
the people demanded of Mr. Carter, by what
authority be used me with that violence and
cruelty?' Thereupon Mr. Carter produced your
honour's warrant, which bis majesty had most
graciously discharged me from the Friday be-
fore; and after all this, I was by him forced
again to Whitehall, to appear before your ho-
nour; bat Mr. Carter afterwards pretending that
your lordship was Aot at Whitehall,* he con-
strained me from thence to an ale-house, and
there detained me at least two hoors ; the said
Mr. Carter still threatening my continuance as
his prisoner, on the pretences hefore allied ;
so that I was constrained to call for die master
of the bouse, and desire him to send for tbe
Lord Chief Justice's warranty to bring os both
before his lordship ; upon tlais, Mr. Carter set
me at liberty.
The promisea-considered, your complaioast
humbly beseecbeth your humour, That Mr.
Carter may make reasonable reparation, or bf
left to a due course at law.
And your petitioner shall ever pray,&c.
In Jan. following I had the sjecond impression
printing of a book intituled, ' A Treatise of
B i prism, wherein that of Believers and that of
Infants, is examined by the scriprore ;' wrote*
by Henry Dan vers, esq ; to which was both
the author's and my own name and sign. Tins
book haviag passed the fiist impiei*wn nodn?
some countenance of Dr. Parker, and the li-
censed catalogue of books publhhed every
term, nevertheless one Mr. Mearn, Mr. Vert,
two messengers, beadle and p»»rter to the com-
pany of Stationers, entered my house wUhpnj
a civil officer, and searched every room •8.**"
as my warehouse, for the said book; Mr.
Mearn having but newly before, in bis uac^*T
ritable diligence, seised near two thousand
sheets of the said book, pretending great seal
for the service of the church of England ; hat
the reader may judge by what follows the con-
trary too maniiest; for in his agisting the
surveying of the presses about four months he-
fore, and finding the same book printing, aw
passed it with a joke.
About February 10, he the said Mr. Menm
being then warden, did with warden Wftll**Jr
the beadle, come to the house of one Mr. A***
man, a book-binder, and seised 400 trf U* •**
MS] STAtE.TKIA£S, 3t CsutLU It \6*0.~Jbr p*bti*mg • JUkl
[*H
books, and carried them away; although the
.laid Mr. Redman would havt given security for
their forth-coming until I was made acquainted,
and authority should give a legal determination;
but Mr. Mearn said lie would have them inio
bis own custody, and damask of spoil them, im-
mediately upou liearing of which, I applied my-
self to the lord Arlington, then principal secretary
of state, and to the late bishop of London, setting
forth the usage I had met with, and requesting
* tpek lordships favour, That neither I nor my
books might be condemned until a fair hearing,
which was most readily granted. But before
I could obtain a re-delivery of the said books,
in April following I had sufficient intimation
that this bepk (seised in pretended zeal to the
Service of the church) was re-printing for some
of the same persons that bad seized mine ; upon
which I repaired to one Mr. Downing's house,
a printer in Bartholomew-close, where I found
the sheet D. then printing ; and in a short time
mfter I learnt where a parcel of this stolen im-
pression was binding : I then applied myself to
Mr. Mearu, he being, warden ot the company,
appealing to him of the injustice of this usage,
▼tz. That he should be a chief actor against me,
for printing a book (according to my belief The
Mind of i be holy scriptures for baptising believ-
ers.) And that now I both desired and expected
iie would seize and suppress this, being done by
bis favourites, if not with his connivance. He
replied, be must first send for the barber and be
(rimmed, and that it was not a seasonable
hour ; although it was eight of the clock in the
morning in the month ot May. Thus finding
tny endeavours fruitless with him, and my owu
books still under restraint, my market lost, and
and at least 40 or 50/. expended with continu-
ed absence from my shop and trade, in attend-
ance and application to several persons of ho-
nour ; from January till May, i was, as many
know, constantly harrss^ed to and fro ; being
a part of that time at Windsor, w lie re the court
.then was : On the 5th of which month, one Mr.
Randal Taylor and Mr. Thomas Sawbridge,
Ithat had both been very instrumental in the
seizing and suppressing of my books, exposes
to public sale from shop to shop, that stolen
impression of the said books, subscribing it in
parcels to many, booksellers, with the author's
name, and my name and sign to it ; which stu-
.pendous way of proceeding, and adding op-
pression to the oppressed, was designed, if
possible, to have ruined me and my family.
Upon this unjust and monstrous dealing, I
applied myself with one of their books and one
of mine, to several persons of quality, and
.among the rest, to the right honourable the earl
of Shsftsbury, then lord high chancellor of
England, who was pleased highly to recent, such
hard measure : contributing bis favour until it
came to his majesty's ear, who was graciously
.pleased to grant bis order /or restitution of my
'books. And I wish Mr. Mearn would remem-
„"ber, ia order to his timely repentance and
.tasking me restitution, how highly ill several
aoble lords resented his procedures, when I.
complained in bis bearing of Ms injurious
practices at a committee of lords, where ha
appeared (the man of confidence) receiving
such jdst reflections from the lords, the secre*
caries, the attorney and solicitor generals, as
might have precau tinned a man of modesty,
though of no religion,' never to hsve appeared
any more in such unjust and malicious actions,
as the sequel will discover.
Some little time after the present lord of
London was invested, Mr. Mearn (as I have
good ground to believe) did mis- inform bis lord*
ship touching me and my warehouse, (wanting
till then an opportunity to improve the sore die*
gust he had taken at his' majesty's gracious
favour in restoring me tho.se books Mr. Mearn
had before seized, and declared if it cost him an
hundred pounds out of his own parse, I should
never have them again; not being capable to
do me that injury in the late bishop's time,
who told him what he did against me, was
matter of malice apparently, for that such and
such books, which the bishop then named%
were by his connivance vended, and every Way.
as unfit to be published as mine) thereof ob-
taining a council-warrant, suggesting I had s>
private warehouse wherein might be great
numbers of the book called The Growth of
Popery, and Advice to grand juries in order
to the election of a new parliament, disco*
vering the many grievances the nation groaned
under by the mis-proceedings of the late long
parliament: (now my warehouse, so suggested for
private and dangerous, was in the open street
at the Globe tavern near the Royal Exchange)
nevertheless on a Saturday in July, 1678, w bile
1 was 16 miles off, came Mr. Mearn, with the
then deputy-mar»hal of the KingVbench, and
several others, to search my warehouse, (which
but the week before, the same marshal, with
Mr. I/Ettrange and others, had searched, and
found nothing criminal) and demanded of my
son the key, or they would break open the
door ; bet having ready entrance, found only
the books which bis niajestv had graciously re- -
stored two or three years before, with several
other innocent books ; not one among them I
dare appeal to his own conscience, reflecting
upon church or state, more than barely that of
baptism, respecting the time of administering*
nevertheless, he sent for a cart and five porters,
employing them to load the cart with above
400J. worth of several • sorts of my books, and
carried them to Stationers Hall ; obtaining
from the present lord of London, by false sag*
gestions, an order lor damasking or defacing
them all : and so industrious was he. and Mr.
Randal Taylor the- beadle, (one of those that
had some time before printed and publi»lied
the stolen impression) Uou in two days from
the seizor* above 50/. worth was made godd
for nothing but to paste upon trunks or hat-
cases.
Their seizure was made on a Saturday to*
wards evening, and on Wednesday following,
by the mediation of a person of honour that
bath known me for 90 years, I made my appli*
$fr*3 STATE TRIALS, 3S Cbav.es II. 1080— 7V&J tf&aneis
(M6
Ration to the present lord of London, that a
stop might ha pat to the total spoil, till I bad
a fair hearing ; and bj bis lordship*! favour,
with the message be sent to the then master
and wardens, they spared no pains to put a
atop to further spoil, and were con tributary to
all possible restitution of what bad been seized,
spoiled and unspoiled. *
Nevertheless by the first seizure, before I
could recover ihem again, which was about six
months, attendance and charges cost me above
50/. besides the loss of my market, by their
prodigious and wicked act of printing an im-
pression of the same books, while mine were
voder restraint, to my damage above IOOL
The re-seizure of the same book* three years
after, and as many other sons as together
loaded a cart, at which foe porters were em-
ployed by the said Mr. Meara and competi-
tors, with the spoil they made by damasking,
and cost to recover, damnified me above 60/.
In the whole, the first and last charge and
damage above 210/. upoa moderate compu-
tation ; besides many weeks time lost from my
shop and trade, to my prejudice in probability
equal to the rest.
In Auguftt 16T9 there came forth a pamphlet
called ''Observations on sir George Wake-
man's trial," the author and printer of which I
knew not ; but it being commonly sold, I had
a proportion (by some hand or other sent me.)
In October following, one Mr. Stevens, a mes-
senger to the press, brought a warrant from
the lord chief justice Soroggs to bsing me be-
fore bis lordship, who was pleased to examine
me as to the author; but I not being capable
to answer his expectation in that, requested
(for weighty considerations) I might not be
committed,, for it would much at that season
tend to my prejudice, and I had sufficient citi-
zens there present, who offered themselves for
my bail. His lordship made answer, I do not
except against your bail, they seem to be honest
responsible gentlemen ; but I tell you ; you
shall to gaol, unless you presently tell me who
was the author of that seditious pamphlet. I
replied, my lord, I cannot tell who was the au-
thor; but believe my case bailable, and beg
jour lordship to take bail. No, said his lord-
ship, you may take your Habeas Corpus ; I
will take no bail ; make his Mittimus : which
was dooe accordingly, as followetb :
I have herewith sent you the body of
Smith, whom yon are to keep in safe custody
till he shall be discharged by due course of
Jaw ; oath being made before me, that there
•was a great parcel of that scandalous libel seen
in his house or shop, called Observations on sir
George Wakeman's trial.
Dated Octob. S4, 1679. Wm . Scsooc*.
To Joseph Cooling, esq. marshal
of the King's-bench prison.
Upon this I had my Habeas Corpus, and in
four days following was brought to the King's-
bench bar, and so I was bailed ; but an infor-
jnaiioa was put into the Crown-office, wfcence
a summons came for a trial at a time when I
was under an extreme sickness of a high fever
and every-dav«agqe, being brought so low, that
I was not able to go cross a room without help,
of which the physicians certified ; and the
court was moved by counsel to put off tha
trial till it might please God to work my reco-
very ; but not prevailing, the jury was unpan-
nelled, and the honourable sir Thomas Jooes,
who sat as judge, it seemetb advised my coun-
cil that they would refer ray case to the court,
and be would mediate with the lord chief jus-
tice for clemency ; which to a tittle his honour
truly performed. At the same time, as I am
credibly informed,' sir George Jeffreys, who
was counsel against me, made the like promise,
and was waited on the day before my appear*
ance at the KingV-beneh bar, with a reoucst
for his performance ; but instead of making
good what be had promised before many baa*
dreds, he incensed the court with such aggra-
vating expressions, as procured a fine ; which
with the Crown-office charge and imprison-
ment, with the charge of Habeas Corpus, tad
trial at Guildhall, cost me above S6L besides
a chargeable sickness several months, asacb
more to my charge and damage.
In December following, die aforesaid Mr.
Stevens and a constable came to my shop with
a warrant to search for unlicensed books ; I de-
sired to hear it read, and found it was a general
warrant signed by the lord chief justice Scroggs,
not expressing my name nor crime; open
whieh I replied, I should not obey it, for it was
against Magna Charta, and therefore advised
the messenger at his peril neither to seise me
nor my books. About this time, seeing two or
three sober persons make a stand, I requested
them to bear witness to what might happen ;
then the constable replied, Sir, My work is
only to keep the peace, I shall meddle with
nothing. Well but, sir, said I, I conceive it if
your work as well to see the peace is not broke,
for neither my name nor books are mentioned
in this warrant, therefore it is against law. The
messenger alledged, that besides his warrant,
be had particular instructions to seise such and
such things ; and it would be worse for me>![
I obeyed not : to which I replied, God's win
be done, I will obey no general warrant; I
have long and often known what it was te
suffer, and now by God's grace I would know
for what I suffered. Upon this the a""1**!
was in a great beat, both threatening me, and
persuading me much to obey his general war*
rant. I replied, Take heed what you do, and
remember Empson and Dudley, that thoup
they acted by an act of parliament, 0"°
greater than your general warrant, ▼etywt
against Magna Charta, they were both a1***]
for their pains. Upon this the messenger and
constable departed. ,
A few days after, the same messenger cesse
again with a particular warrant, end w»|K
me before his majesty in councfl; and ***** I*
had made oath, gave evidence, and <****!{? Jr
with refusing, to obey bis general warrant, ae-
9tf)
STATE TRIALS, S2 Chauu II. 1680.— /or publuking a Libel.
t«S
daring, That I often threatened him with a
parliament, and Magna Charta, on purpose to
discourage htm from doing his duty, and that
ha had more trouble with me than all the book-
sellers and printers in town besides; And it was
in vain for mm to execute his office, unless some
course was taken with me; further adding,
That I had printed queen Elisabeth's Associa-
tion, (which he then produced) and two sedi-
tious petitions for the sitting of the parliament,
for which be then produced a witness ; further
complaining, That I went up and down getting
hands to petitions for sitting of the parliament,
and that still as he came to search my shop for
seditious books, I bid him have a care what be
did, and bid htm tell the 10 letters of a parlia-
ment upon bis 10 fingers, and that, sooner or
later, we must have a parliament, and then
I must answer for what I did, on purpose to
discourage me from doing my duty : with many
aggravations too tedious here to relate. Upon
the whole bis general warrant was read, out
nothing was said to it. Then my Lord Chan-
cellor asked me, Where I had the Association?
I replied, as I was a bookseller, That, as other
books, came to my hands; and besides, it had
days, and I hoped there was no hurt in re-
printing it ; His lordship replied, But the Queries
m it was not then ; and I must find the author,
or be deemed author myself. Then his ma-
jesty was pleased to ask me, If I had printed
Setitions for the parliament to sit and promoted
ands to them; To which I replied, Yes, and
please your majesty, with all my heart, and
thought 1 could not do your majesty and my
country better service, than to endeavour a
parliament at the time your majesty appointed,
in January next. After some further passages
'to this purpose, we were bid to withdraw ; and
alter a snort stay a warrant was ordered for a
messenger to carry me to Newgate, where I re-
mained in custody, till delivered by Habeas Cor-
pus, upon bail.
[Then computing the amount of his pecu-
niary loss on each of these occasions, he repre-
sents the aggregate as amounting to about
1,400/. besides the loss of his shop and trade for
two years together. ]
In. compensation or support [be proceeds] to-
wards this, or any other losses, I can truly say
to this day, I never had directly or indirectly,
to the viiWiaf #0/. reparation, from any per-
son or persons whatsoever.
Though it hath been often suggested, both
by persons in authority and others, that Com-
petitors have born me out; upon which, oc-
aasion hath been taken to minister greater
aggravation to my bonds.
And as a dose of this my afflicted relation, be
it remembered, that many of these my sufferings
both on my person and substance, were by
general warrants exercised on roe ; and without
sompassion^(by those employed in surveying,
printing, and vending books,) upon many others;
of which a doleful catalogue might be given, of
aereral persons fry (m the general) mere arbt-
trary ways, and particular or private piques,
that have (from a nourishing condition,) been re*
duced to such poverty, as to die in gaols ; others
not able to leave at their death so much as to
buy a poor 3i. coffin, to carry them. to the
grave ; witness the truth of these cases, in one
Mr. Brewster, who died low some years ago ill
Newgate, and his family reduced to such want,
that his wife lately lived upon charity, and died
under great extremity. One Mr. Calvert died
little less than in prison, and his family brought
to total beggery, that once lived plentifully;
also one Mr. Dover a printer died in Newgate,
almost to the ruin of his family, Mr. LidweR
Chapman in the like manner, by continued im-
prisonments, he and his family ruined; others
fined above their ability, as late instance shews;
others by like imprisonments, also were rained,
by persons invested with power of surveying the
stationary trade, abusing the same at pleasure;
and even wink, when, and where tbey please,
as favour or pique governs them; seize as tm-
licenced, because others shall not sell them, and
sell them themselves.
Even, by what they seise (to the ruin of per-
haps families,) for waste paper one of another.
been formerly printed in queen * Elizabeth's ' as parties in iniquity, and sell the same for
vendable commodity ; yea some persons goods
seized, because tbey shall not vend them ; an*j.
others connived at to vend the same : I myself
was kept a long time in the messengers bands,
at horrid charges, a noble every day for fees,
a mark a day seizure, a mark last day release;
sometimes 52*. 6d. order before released, with
diet and lodging at proportion ; and another of
the same trade, print and vend (with conni-
vance) the same book.
I had, as many yet know, 500 books of a
great vahie seized at the binders, forsooth the
pretence not licenced, and mine being taken
from me, and near 50/. spent after them, in
order to recovery; some of the same persons
that made a great noise in the ears of authors
ty ; saying they are against the church, against
the church ; (at this time with such usage, for
ought tbey knew, I had not money to buy bread
for my many children.)
Yet the same persons could print, and sell,
and connive at printing, and selling the same
book, line for line ; yea, and a conscience so
tender or seared to put my name and sign to
the same book, and sell them city and country
over; as if their selling could alter or -take
away all the venom pretended to be in them.
Ic was become a frequent custom to seize
from some, and connive at others, to print and
vend the same.
And notorious it is that one Mr. B ■ a
printer wassworn against through a brick wall, as
ray information saith, and utterly ruined from
all visible probability of ever recovering; his
materials so broken and damnified; as dis-
abled him from bis common customary ability
of getting bread for his family ; and what was
his crime ?^j(a very great one, as most others
before him here inserted) he printed, or was
printing a Speech made in 'Common Council,
M9J
STATE TRIALS, 32 Cmaiuks IL l6$0.-^7Vtei qfjmt Curtis.
[900
by a member thereof, for a petition to bis mi-
joflt y to dissolve that (by tome worthy patriots
Of their own accounted; and felt one great
grievance of the nation,) the late long parlia-
ment. And the awhir of tfje said Speech was
man j weeks kept in the Gate-house for bis in-
tended good service. Wt re all the ruins and
spoils th:U have been made upon booksellers*
printers, and merchants in books, and haber-
dashers, printed here, it would contain a vo-
lume; Till therefore a further opportunity calls
for it; I shall omit much more that might be
here interted ; humbly praying God Almighty
Co continue this honourable sessions of parlia-
ment, from whom it is not doubted, (when from
more weighty affairs they can condescend into
the inspection of such grievances,) but they
will both punish offenders, and make such pro-
vision, as learned men of gieat worth, may not
subject their labour to the pleasure of an im-
primatur, or censure of striplings to them ; nor
yet booksellers and printers wait the justice
and favourable dispatch of a license, tin their
markets be over, as is notoriously known, anf
felt by too many witnesses.
Having thus given a short and true account
of the sadness of my sufferings) and damages,
and also of the most that 1 have received in re-
paration, I hope I shall neither be looked upon
as an unquiet and troublesome map, deserving
those afflictions I have undergone; nor as one
that by- men of like unquiet spirits have at least
my charges repaired: But tuat I may Maud
in the eyes of honest and no prejudiced persons,
as a man who desires to preserve myself and
family by my trade, as .well as I may; (yet
have met with hard dealings, great sufferings
and losses, and these for the most part illegally
and unjustly brought upon me, by the malice
of ill men, which if J may obtain), I liave the
desired end of this Narrative, and »ue*cribemf»
self a servant to all true Englishmen, while,
Francis Smith*
253. The Trial of Jane Curtis, ft Guildhall, for publishing the
same Libel :* 32 Charles II. a. d. 1680.
Mr. HoU. MAY it please your lordship, and
'gentlemen of the jury, here is an information
brought against Jane Curtis; and it sets forth,
That the defendant did publish and put to sale
a seditious libel against my Lord Chief Justice
Scroggs: The defendant pleads Not Guilty;
if we prove it upon her, you are to find for the
king ; and if not, you are to say so, and no
more.
Mr. Wilfiamt said (who was a counsel for
the defendant), he would admit the record t
whereupon they proceeded no further to trial,
but the woman being called, she said :
Mrs. Curtii. I was ignorant in the matter,
end knew no such thing, my lord ; my bus-
band, an't please your lordship, was in the
' * In' ah account which was publUlied of this
trial, this Jane Curtis is called wife of Langley
Curtis, and the libel for the publication of
.' which she was tried, is called, " A Satire upon
Injustice, or Scroggs upon Scroggs."
country a hundred miles off of me, in lincefcv
shire.
Justice Jonet. You did it ignorantly and sim-
ply, without any malice, and, I suppose, yon
are heartily sorry for it. You see your neigh-
bour there, Mrs. Smith, hath shewed good dis-
cretion in the behalf of her husband ; she has
ingenuously declared, that he shall come and
make submission, and if I find yon as submis-
sive, and as sorry 'for what you have done, I
may do the like for you.
Mrs. Curtit. In any thing that I have done,
I know not myself Guilty ; and if 1 am, I beg
Jrour lordship's pardon with all my heart, my
ord, or any body's else.
• Justice Jones. I know you will find mercy
from my Lord Chief Justice, and therefore go
and make your submission.
^ Then the jury proceeded to give their rer»
diet, and their foreman said, Guilty.
See the Proceedings against the Judges, ts>
264. The Trial of Sir Thomas
Benchf for High Treason :
January the 94th, 1680, Sir Thomas Gaseoigne
was brought to the bar to be arraigned.
CL of Cr. SlR Tho. Gaseoigne, hold op thy
band;
Sir T. Qa$c. I cannot hear.
CUrk. He says he cannot bear.
JL C. J. (sir Win. Serous)* Then somebody
most repeat it that stands by him.
JUcordcr (sir George Jvtferies). Do you hear
what 1 say. to yen ?
Gascoigne, bart. at the KingV
32 Charles IL a. d. 1680.
Sir. r. Gate. No, I cannot hear, I em very
deaf.
[Then the Clerk of the Crown
close to the bar, and went on thus i)
CL of Cr. Sir Thomas Gascoigoe, bold qp thy
hand. [Which l>e did.1 Thou standest indicted
. by the name os> sir Thomas Gascnigntv hue of
the parish of Ehnett, in the West-riding in the
county of York, bart. for that thou, as a false
traitor against our most illustrious and excellent
•611
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chajais IL IflSO.— Jfcr £%& Kyoto*,
{902
prince king Charles the 2nd, thy natural lord,
not having the fear of God in thy heart, nor
weighing the duty of thy allegiance, but by the
instigation of the devil moved and seduced, the
cordial love, and true, due, and natural obedi-
ence which true and faithful subjects of our
amid lord the king should bear to him, and of
right are bound to bear, wholly withdrawing,
.devising, and with all thy power intending to
disturb the peace and common tranquility of
this realm, and to bring and put our said lord
the king to death and final destruction ; and
the true worship of God in this kingdom, by
law established and used, to alter unto the su-
perstition of the Church of Rome, and to move
and stir op war against our said lord the king
in this realm, and to subvert the government of
this kingdom ; the $Qth day of May, in the 31st
year of our said lord the king's reign, at the
parish of Barwick in Elraett in the said county
if York, in the West-riding of the same county,
with divers other false traitors unknown, didst
traitorously compass, imagine,4 and intend the
.. .- — i i ■ ■■ « ■ i m ' ' ■ ■ ' ■ — ^»^— .
* See a Note in vol. 5, p. 972. To the quo-
tation there inserted from Mr. Luders, the fol-
lowing passage should have been added:
" These words, at this day, do not convey the
proper meaning of the original ' compasser ou
4 imaginer.' But I have been afraid of offend-
ing those who would cry out against the change,
in a form of words so long established, in this
well-known article of national history, if I had
given their true translation. I believe they
would be justly rendered by the words ' attempt
4 or contrive. JViany passages contemporary
with the statute, could be brought to shew that
this was the meaning of the law-makers. The
following have occurred to me, viz.
" In the Parliament Roll of the same 95th
Tear (p. 837.) the Chief Justice in opening the
cession, among the causes of summons, men-
tions the French king's assumption of the crown
of France, which belonged to Edward the third.
And that he ' ymaginant de notre die Seignur
' lei Roy snbdure et enginer,' had broken the
truce.
44 In Stat. 36 Edw. 3, st. 2. for the king's
general pardon, the Commons petition tba^
they may not be impeached or charged * par
' no! manere de colour imagination ou inter-
* pretation '
" In 2 Pari. Bo. 332. ]No. 58, in a petition
for the banishment of the Italian brokers in
50 Edw, 3, the charge against them is, that
* male Usure et touz les subtils ymaginations
' d'icell sont par eux compassez et meyntenuz.'
" In 11 Rich. 2, 3 Pari. Ro. 239, 240. Judge
Belknap is accused by the archbishop of York,
* qoil feust ymagineur et contrevour* of the
commission and statute made in the former
(parliament. And Blake, one of the same party
4 qui aveient compass^ et purpose* lours fauces
' tresons) ymagiqa sur les ditz commission et
* estatut— Et outre ce il ymagina et cotn-
4 pass*—' with the aforesaid persons, &c.
whose offences are called * fauces tresons et
T»U VII.
death and Anal destruction of our said lord the
king ; and to change and alter, and wholly to
subvert the ancient government of this realm ;
and to depose and wholly to deprive the king
of the crown and government of this kingdom, .
and to root out the true Protestant religion.
And to fulfil and. accomplish the same most
wicked treasons, and traitorous imaginations "
r compaasemeots, devoir murdre* et destruiti
' les ditz Seignars.— And inasmuch as the said
offenders ' avoieot conusance des ditz fauces
* purposes et compassementz de si haute trc-
* son,' &c.
" In 4 Hen* 5, 4 Pari. Ro; 104, the Com-
mons represent, that certain religious houses
that had run in debt upon bonds, which they
could not discbarge, ' compassantz et ymagi-
* nantz de desceiver et forbarrer' their creditors,
liad applied for protections, &c.
" In the acts for attainting the earl of Lin-
coln and his party in Henry the 7th's reign,
which are in English, the following are the
phrases, viz, conspired and ymagined — yroagin-
ed and conspired — ymagynyng compassyng and
conspiryng the deth and deposition— traitorous-
ly ymagynyng and compassyng the deth and
destruction. See 6 Pari. Ro. 397, 502.*
" Chaucer, who was contemporary with the
statute, applies the phrase to felony, not to
treason. But in his time there was little dif-
ference between them for our purpose : Each
crime depending on a breach of the feudal al-
liance; the one implying treachery, the other
not. The passage I allude to is in the Knight's
Tale, in the description of paintings in the
Temple of Mars :
'< There saw I all the dark imagining
Of Felony, and all the compassing.
The Treason of the murdering in thel>ed.
The open war &c."
Dryden altered this treason to the l assassinat-
ing Wife.' Here treason seems contrasted with
open war.
" Du Caiige and Carpentier do not assist us,
upon the inquiry into the origin of the word
' imaginer,' in our writers and records. What
has occurred in my reading, would lead me to
derive it from ' raachinari,' not from ' iiuagina-
' tio.' Glanville and Bracton and ftf. Paris
use that verb, where those who came after
them, writing in French, use * ymanner.' The
old writ of Ne exeat regnum has, Machinatus
est contra coronam. Oraericus Vitalis, writing
at the end of the 11th century, has this expres-
sion, ' Dumiplurimi Anglorum — machinaren-
« tur rebel lionero.' . Knighton, who was proba-
bly contemporary with Edward the third, writes
* quiymaginati sunt ei proditionem.' Joinville,
Bracton's contemporary, has the following pas-
sage in French, of a. rebellion in France.
4 Advint que les Barons de France se assem-
' blerent a Corbeil, et machinerent entre eux
( d'uug commun conseotement.' " See his
Consideration*, &c. p. 137.
3Q
V
963] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaklm II. 1680— Trial <f Sir Thomas GaKoigne, [<K*
and purposes, the said Gaicoigne and other
raise traitors unknown, on (he said SOtb day of
May, in the Slst year aforesaid, with force and
arms, &c. at the parish of Barwick aforesaid,
advisedly, devilisnly, maliciously and traitor-
ously did assemble, unite, and gather together
themselves, and then and there did devilishly,
advisedly, maliciously, craftily and traitorously
consult and agree to bring our said lord the
king to death and final destruction, and to de-
pose and deprive him of his own crown and
government, and to introduce and establish the
religion of the Romish Church in this realm.
And the sooner to fulfil and accomplish the
same most wicked treasons and traitorous ima-
ginations and purposes, thou the said Gas-
coign e, and other unknown traitors, then and
there advisedly, maliciously and traitorously did
further consult and agree to contribute, pay,
and expend divers large sums of money to divers
of the king's subjects and other persons un-
known, to procure those persons unknown trai-
torously to kill our said lord the king, and to
introduce the Romish religion into this realm.
And that thou the said Gascoigne afterwards,
to wit, on the said SOtb day of May, in the 31st
year aforesaid, at the parish aforesaid, didst
falsely, advisedly, craftily, maliciously and trai-
torously solicit one Robert Bolron to kill our
said lord the king; and then and there, with
an intent sooner traitorously to encourage the
said Bolron to undertake the. killing ana mur-
dering of oar said lord the king, offeredst there-
fore to give and pay the said Bolron 1,000/. of
lawful money of England ; against the duty of
thy allegiance, against the peace of our said lord
the king, his crown and dignity, and against the
form of the statute in such case made and pro-
Tided. How sayest thou, sir Tho. Gascoigne,
arttbou Guilty of' this high treason whereof
thou standest indicted, and hast been now ar-
raigned, or Not Guilty ?
Sir T. Gasc. • Gloria Patri, Filio, et Spiritui
# Sancto,' I am Not Guilty.
CI. of Cr. Not Guilty, you must say.
Sir T. Gate. Not Guilty ; nor any of my fa-
mily were ever guilty of any such thing : I hope
I shall be tried fairly.
CL ofCr. How will you be tried ?
Sir T. Gasc. By God and my country.
CI. ofCr. God send thee a good deliverance.
Sir T. Gate. I desire, that in order to my
^trial, I may have a jury of gentlemen, of per-
sons of my own quality, and of my own coun-
try, that may be able to know something how I
bave lived hitherto ; for I am above fourscore
and five years old.
L. C. J. Tell him he shall hare a good jury
of gentlemen of his own country.
sir T. Gasc. And besides, my lord, I desire
to know when I shall be tried.
'Att, Gen. (Sir Creswel Levins.) Some
time about the Tatter end of the term, as soon
as I can get a jury up.
Sir T. Gate. I do not know whether I can
produce all mv witnesses at that time, if there
be not a longer time allowed me ; for I have a
I
great many witnesses to fetch up-: these wit-
nesses must be all' here, or I cannot make my
defence ; and I know not how they shall begot
hither in so little time.
L. C. J. Tell him he may have what wit*
nesses be pleases, and the aid of this court to
fetch them.
Just. DoWen. Name them who they are.
Mrs. Ravenscrqft. My lord, tome of hit wit*
nesses are at Paris.
Just. Dolben. Why, he will not be tried yet
this fortnight.
Mrs. Ravenscroft. They will not have time
to come over between this and that.
- Just. Dolben. Mistress; he had reason te
believe that he should be tried some time this
term, for so the counsel ordered it ; and there*
fore he should bave got his witnesses ready.
Mrs. Ravenscroft. My lord, he did not know
where they were till a week ago.
Just. Dolben. Look you, Mr. Attorney, here
is a lady that is I suppose, some relation to this
gentleman.
Mrs. Ratienscroft. He is my grandfather, my
lord.
Just. Dolben. She says a fortnight's time will
be too little to get his witnesses together for
his defence, because some of the witnesses are
beyond sea at Paris, she says.
Att. Gen. My lord, I am willing he should
have as long time as the term will allow of :
but sure that is long enough to get any witnesses
from Paris.
X. C. J. What say you to sir Miles Staple*
ton ? I see he is joined in the indictmedt.
Att. Gen. My lord, he is not come up yet.
L. C. J. Will you try the one without the
other ?
Att. Gen. Ye3, my lord, if we cannot have
both : he is in the hands of the messenger at
York ; we hare writ down to know the state of
his health to some of the justices of the peace,
and the messenger returns word he is sick and
cannot come : I have sent down an Habeas-
Corpas to the messenger to brinjj him up ; let
him return a Languidus at his peril ; that is aU
lean do.
L. C. J. Well, what day do you appoint for
Sir Thomas's trial?
Att. Gen. Tuesday come fortnight I think
will be a good day.
Just. Dolben. By that time, mistress, you may
get your witnesses ; you must send a messenger
on purpose.
Mrs. Ravenscrqft. But if the wind should be
contrary, my lord, and they cannot be brought
over}
Just. Dolben. It is not an usual thing It
have winds long contrary between Dover and
Calais.
Mrs. Ravenscroft. But if it do fall out that
he wants a material witness at his trial, I nope
his life will 1>e considered.
Just. Dolben. He should have had them ready,
he had warning before.
Mrs. RavenMroft. We could do it no sooner
because we knew not where they were.
*M]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16SU— ./br High IVeajDn.
[966
Just, Doftta. He sank be hatb a great many
witnesses ; are they all at Paris r
Att. Gen. There are a great many in town,
*ve know, already.
Mrs. Raventcroft. If we had known when
exactly, we might have been more ready per-
haps.
Att. Gen. But we oonld give no notice sooner,
it is early in the term -now. Bat there is time
enough to get any witnesses.
X. C. J. Ay, you may send to Paris a great
many times between this and that.
Mrs. Raventcreft. What if the letter mis-
carry, my lord ?
Just. Dolben. Why, you most send a special
messenger.
Ait. Gen. My lord, if yon please, let it be
Wednesday fortnight, the last, day but one of
the term ; because I would give him -as much
time to provide himself as I can.
. Just. Pemberton. Well, mistress, you must
tend a special messenger ; we must not con*
.suit your convenient? ; do it as well as you can,
you have time enough.
Just. Dalben. Your grandfather is a man of
an estate ; he. may very well, in this case, be
at the charge of a special messenger.
Mrs. Ravenscroft. But what if the winds
'be contrary, must my grandfather's life be lost ?
X. C. J. We roust give you that favour we
can by law, and you must be content ; tell us
at the trial what you have done.
Then the Lieutenant of the Tower was or-
dered to take tjie prisoner "back and by the rule
to bring him to (he bar on Wednesday the
11th of February. On which day the prisoner
being brought up, the Trial proceeded thus :
Att. Gen. My lord, here is an extraordinary
natter : sir Thomas Gascoigne had a rule for.
some friend to assist him, by reason of the
defect of his hearing ; and now there are three
of them that are got among the jury.
X. C. J. No, no, they must come in of the
inside of the bar.
Att, Gen. Pray let him tell which he will
make choice of ; for he is by the rule to have
but one.
Just Pemberton. Tell him there can but one
stay.
CounteL He says one of them came out of
the country, and knows the persons that are
the witnesses, which he does not himself*
X. C. J. Well, let die other come in, let him
have them both.
Counsel, He says, the principal man he de-
pended upon is clapt up.
. - X. C. J. Well, we cannot help that.
Then way was made for the Jury to come up
to (he stand, and proclamation for information
was made in usual manner.
CI. of Court. Sir Thomas Gascoigne, hold up
thy hand.
* Sir T. Gate. I cannot hear what is said.
CI. of Cr. Those good men which were lately
called, and have appeased, are to pass, &c
X. C. J. Tell him the effect of it. If he will
make any challenges to the Jury, he must speak
to them before they are sworn.
Hobart. If you will challenge any of the
jury, you must speak to them before they are
sworn.
Sir T. Gate. I cannot hear who is called.
X. C. J. Tell him who is called.
CI. of Cr. Sir Thomas Hodson.
Hobart. This is sir Thomas Hodson, sir.
Sir 2*. Gate. What must X say ? Ay, or No ?
Hobart. Do you except against him I
Sir T. Gate. No. [Who was sworn.
CI. of Cr. Richard Beaumont, esq.
Hobart. Do you challenge biin» Sir ?
Sir T. Gate. No.
Att. Gen. Pray, my lord, here is sir John
Cutler in the pannel, one that Hves in town,
and is the foreman of the jury ; I desire the
Court to take notice of his not appearing in ,
particular.
CI. of Cr. John Gibson, esq. — The Prisoner
challenged him.
Serj. Maynurd. I perceive they skip a great
many; pray call them as they are in the pan-
nel, and record their non-appearance in Court.
■
Which was done accordingly; but their
names that did not appear, for brevity sake, are
omitted. '
CI. ofCr. Nicholas Maleverer, esq.
Att. Gen. We challenge him for the king.
I perceive the best gentlemen stay at home.
Serj. Moynard. Yes, it is so small a business.
CI. of Cr. — Beck* ith, esq., challenged by the
prisoner ; Stephen Wilks, esq., sworn ; Mat-
thew Prince, esq., challenged by the prisoner;
Thomas Gravar, esq., challenged by the pri-
soner ; Jervas RockJey, esq., sworn ; William:
Walker, esq., challenged by the prisoner ; John.
Dimmocke, esq., challenged by the prisoner;
Samuel Jenkinson, esq., challenged by the pri-
soner; Robert Leeke, esq., sworn; William
Batt, esq., sworn ; Richard Burton, esq., chal-
lenged by 'the prisoner; Robert Auby, esq,,
challenged by the prisoner ; Charles Best, esq.,
sworn ; Robert Long, esq., challenged by the
prisoner; John Crosse, esq., sworn; Barton
Allett, esq., sworn ; William Milner, esq.,
sworn ; John Oxley, esq., sworn ; Francis Ox*
ley, esq., sworn.
CI. of Cr. Crier, count these. Sir Thomas
Hodson, Richard Beaumont, Stephen Wilks,
Jervas Rockley, Robert Leeke, William Batt,
Charles Best, John Crosse, Barton Allett, Wil-
liam Milner, John Oxley, Francis Oxley.
Cry. Twelve good men and true, stand tor
getber and hear your evidence.
CI. of Cr. Sir Thomas Gascoigne, hold up
thy hand. Gentlemen, you of the Jury that
are sworn, look upon the prisoner and hearken
to his charge. You shall understand, That he
stands indicted, by the name of sir Thomas
Gascoigne, late of the parish of Eltnett, &c.
prout in the Indictment, tnutatit mutandis.
Upon this Indictment he hath been arraigned,
and thereunto pleaded Not Guilty ; and for hie
967] STATE TRULLS, 82 tia>Hst U. ltfO.— TruH 4 Sr Tkomas Omeoigne, . [
trial hath put taraself upon his country, which
teuntry yeiu are, &c. '
Then Proclamation for Evidence was made,
and — - — Dormer, esq. of counsel for the king
in this cause, opened the Indictment thus ;
Ml*, bbrtoter.. May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury, sir Thomas Gas-
coigne, baronet, the prisoner at the bar, stands
indicted for High-Treason, in conspiring the
murder of his majesty, the subverting of the go-
vernment, and the introducing the Romish re-
ligion : And for the effecting these purposes,
the Indictment sets forth. That the said sir
Thomas Gascoigne, sir Miles Stapleton, and
other false traitors, on the 30th of May last, at
the parish of Ehnett, in the west-riding of the
county of York, did assemble together, and
there resolved to put their treasons in execution.
And the better to accomplish their said trea-
sons and traitorous imaginations, they did agree
to contribute several large sums of money to
several of his majesty's subjects unknown, to
introduce popery, to kill the king, and subvert
the government : And that sir Thomas Gas-
coigne did solicit Robert Bolron to kill the
king, and for that service he was to pay him
a ,000/. To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty:
If the king's evidence prove the charge of the
Indictment, your duty is to find him Guilty.
Serj. Maynard. May it please your lordsliip
and you gentlemen of the jury, you have heard
the indictment, trad it hath been opened to
you. There c*h be no greater crime charged
upon any, than that this gentleman is accused
of. The design hath been to kill and murder .
the king, to change the religion and the go-
vernment; and to effect this, they make assem-
blies, they offer money ; and this my lord we
shall prove. It is no new crime, divers have suf-
fered for the like already ; and we shall not
need to make any aggravations, for indeed it
cannot be n^avatedmare than the plain mat-
ter kself is. We -shall call our witnesses,
and prove it directly upon him, even by two
witnesses ; and we shall prove, that he held in-
telligence with orte-Preswicke a priest; letters
between him and that person are found in his
'Custody, and we * shall produce one of them
wherein it doth appear, that there was intelli-
gence between them, and consultations had
about the oath of allegiance; and that Pracid
did write to him, that it was a damnable oath
-condemned by the Scorbonnists : And upon
'that point hungs the changing of religion ; for
the oath of aHegiance is the great touchstone
to discover men's sincerity by, and the great
bond to tie them to the government, and to the
protectant religion. And we shall likewise
prove another passage fn a letter indorsed with
the prisoner's own hand„ wnerein there is an ex-
pression to this purpose: "That if England
be converted, (the oriest writes this to him)
then how a sum of 90/. was to be disposed :"
Which was, as you shall hear, and we shall
prove, in a nunnery. * If England be conver-
ted/ that clearly -sfaews^ what was their inten-
tion, not only to destroy the king, tot aha ce-»
ligion and the nation ; and so they were ceas-
spiring not only against his majesty, but againer.
God. That an old gentleman that hath hvesf
so long under the peace of this nation, and
been so protected by the government, which
hath been so indulgent to men of his persuaaiofs,
ahould be guilty of inch a design, it a lament-
able thing to think of; that he should so oftud
the law, which hath been so mild in its -eewcv*
tion against sneb men. We shall prove the
proffer of the 1,000/. and so leave it with you.
Alt. Gen. My lord, these two papers we
shall use in confirmation of that evidence wilt
be given by two witnesses, whe 1 think will
concur in the same thing ; that is, the coasjpi
racy for killing the king, and for the carrying
on of the plot. The papers the witnesses vriu
expound to yon ; the one is a letter, an Mr.
Serjeant has opened it to you, to sir Thomas
Gascoigne from a priest, wherein he does dis-
course about 90/. a year at Maunston, which
sirJThomas has purchased to settle upon a nun-
nery called Dolebank in Yorkshire ; and
in it is said, " You will be well advised to pot
in a proviso into the former writing" (to
meant for the settlement) "That if England to
converted, the 90/. a year shall be bestowed at
Heworth, or some other place in Ynrtshiiw.*
Your lordship will hear by the witnesses, that
there were several places designed fer tbeae
nuns to inhabit, as Dolebank and other places-;
and this letter will concur with their evidence,
and they will prove, that this very place that
they speak of, was designed for this purpose.;
and so it appears by the papers taken m air
T. Gascoigne's custody. My lord, there is ano-
ther letter which was mentioned, and which I
"believe may have a great inftuence in this
cause, I am sure it may be likely to prodwc*
very bad effects ; which is that letter from tto
priest, wherein he decries the oath of the alle-
giance as a damnable thing condemned by tto
doctors at Sorbonne, and ether priests from
Rome. And this had its effect a little time be-
fore ; for it was about the time that a matter of
30 or 40 were convicted of a prsssaonaw ia
that county, for not taking the oath of allegi-
ance, whicn they used to do before. And there
will be some other concurring evidence in Uds
cause, and is by some papers taken in sir T.
Gascoigne's own hand ; they are atoaaaeke,
in which many of his own memorials are, seve-
ral sums of money mentioned to be paid, and
returned to priests at London- : The; 'witnesses
will tell you it was returned for the design of
the Plot. There happens to be 000/. returned
to Mr. Corker, who is now in Newgate ; and
some other sums to Harcourt, who is executed ;
and some money is paid to him, though I think
not much, about 25/. and several sums ant
mentioned and great sums returned to Lon-
don by sir T. Gascoigne, in fiwt or six years
time, 5 or 6,000/. to what purpose I can't tell ;
they will give yon an account : I think he did
Jive always in Yorkshire himself* never used to
coma to town ; and what »eccasioa to might
W]
STATE TRIALS, $<J Citatutt IL !6IO.-^ar JJjgJt Tta**.
[970
have of returning money. I don't know. We
.will call the two witnesses vfcw wee, and then
use the other evidence as we shall have occa-
sion to confirm tbeta. Call Mr. Bolron* and
Mr. Mowbray. fWho were sworn.
: — —1 .+
* Tbh Bolron, in 1680, published, under an
Order of the House of Commons, a pamphiet,
entitled, '« The Papists' Moody Oath of Se-
crecy and Litany of intercession for England :
With the Manner of taking the oath, upon their
entering into any Grand Conspiracy against
the Protestants. As it was taken in the Cha-
pel belonging to Bam bow-Hall, the residence
of sir Thomas Gaseoigne, from William Rush-
toe*, a Popish Priest."
The Oath of Secrecy be gives as follows ;
"The Oath op Secrkcy.
" Given by William Rushton, to me Robert BoW
roa, Feb. 2, 1676-7.
" In the name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
" I, Robert Bolron,- being in the presence of
Almighty God, the blessed Mary ever Virgin,
the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed
St. John Baptist, the holy Apostles, St. Peter
and St. Paul, and all the Sain ti in heaven, and
0o yon my Ghostly Father ; do declare, and in
•try heart believe, the Pope, Christ's vicar-gene-
ral, -to be the true and only bead of Christ's
church here on earth ; and that by virtue of the
Jseys of binding and loosing, given his Holiness
fry otw Saviour Christ, he hath power to depose
ail heretical kings and princes, and cause them
to be killed. - Therefore, to the utmost of rov
power I wilt defend this doctrine and his Holi-
wess's rights, against all usurpers whatever ; es-
pecially against the now pretended king of
England, in regard that he hath broke his vows
■with his lioliness's agents beyond seas, and not
•erformed his promises, in bringing into Eng-
land the Holy Roman Catholic Religion. I do
renounce and disown any allegiance as due to
the said pretended king of England, or obedi-
ence to any of his inferior officers and magis-
trates ; but do believe the Protestant doctrine
to he heretical and damnable, and that all are
damned which do not forsake the same ; and
to the best of my power, will help his Holiness1*
agents here in England, to extirpate and root
out the said Protestant doctrine, and to destroy
the said pretended king of England, and all
ancfa of Iris subjects as will not adhere to the
holy see of Rome, and the religion there pro-
leased. I further do promise and declare,
That I wilt keep secret and private, and not
divulge, directly nor indirectly, by word, writ-
ing, or circumstance, whatever vhall be pro-
posed, given hi charge or discovered to me by
you my Ghostly Father, or any other engaged
m the pa>moting of this pious and holy design ;
and that I will be active, and not desist from
the carrying of it on : And jhat no hopes of re-
wards, threats or punishments, shall make me
tNseovcr the rest concerned in so pious a work ;
Att. Ot». Mr. Bolron, tell my lord aid the
jury what Tan know of sir T. Gaseoigne.
Mr. Bolron, i came to livsj with sir T. Gat*
coigne in 1674> at Steward of hit coal- works r
and in 1675, a little before Easter, being in iba
and, if discovered, shall never confess any ac*
cessaries, with myself concerned in this design*
All which I do swear by the blessed Trinity/
and by the blessed Sacrament' (which I now
purpose to receive} to perform, and on my
part, to keep inviolable: And do call all the
angels and saints in heaven, to witness my real
intention /to keep this Oath. In testimony
whereof I do receive this most holy and blessed
Sacrament of the Eucharist."
He afterwards says :
" Now having given an account of the Oath
of Secrecy, next I will render you an account
how the Jesuits and Popish priests do insinuate
themselves into the hearts of those that they
ensnare to engage in this damnable design;
which particularly being exemplified in my own.
self, may serve as instructions how others were
induced and encouraged to propagate their
hellish principles. The relation is as followetK
" About the latter end of January, 1676,
Thomas Thwing a priest, and William Roth*,
too. another Popish priest, who was my ghostly
father, came to my house at Shippen Hall ta
Yorkshire, and did there examine me, how I
was affected • and did like the Romish religion,
since I was of it, and, if there were an v occa*
sion, what would I do for the good of that re-
ligion ? To whom I replied, that I was so well
affected to the Romish religion, that I would
venture mv life and estate in the management
of any design whatsoever, for the good of that
religion. The priests then said, that they were
glad to bear me in so good a humour, and-did
heartily wish that all the Catholics in -England
were of my mind ; and further did tell me, that
all England in a little time would be Roods*
Catholics ; for that the duke of York, neat heir
to the crown, had renounced the Protestant
religion : Therefore force was to be used, for
the more speedy bringing him to the crown.
Bat added, that, before I could be any further
acquainted with the particulars of this design,
I must first take the aforementioued Oath of
Secrecy, which all good Catholics mutt tak*;
for if any Catliolics did refuse it, they could
not be permitted to know of their designs and
contrivances : For that sir Thomas Gaseoigne,
Thomas Gaseoigne, esq. and other gentlemen,
had taken the same, and engaged themselves,
and given security for their respective perform-
ances.
" Then I told the said priests, That I wosjM
not deny to take it; "for I would obey my
ghostly father in all things. And Candlemas*
day, 1676, I did accordingly go to Barnbow
Hall, as was formerly agreed, Where I did hear
mass, and take the Oath of Secrecy from the
hands of my ghostly father, to be private and
•keep secret the design of hilling his sacred ma-
971] STATE TRIALS, S2Chaw.es II. IQU^TYiul qf Sir 7%omas Gmctigic, [97*
Bext room to sir T. Gascoigne, I did bear Charles
Ingleby. and sir Thomas in discourse together,
and sir Thomas did say he was very fearful
his estate would Deniable to be forfeited to the
king
jesty, and the destruction of all such Protest
tants as would not be of the Romish religion ;
which Oath of Secrecy is before related, and is
the true copy of the said Oath as I got it from
the said Rushton accidentally, the very same
day it was ministered unto me by him.
" Before I did take the Oath of Secrecy, I
did go to confession, where my ghostly father
in my said confession did tell me, that I must
believe, That it was a mortal sin to reveal what
was told me by my ghostly father in my con-
fession, and that I was certainly damned, if
ever I did discover the concerns of this design,
or taking the said Oath of Secrecy.
" But after I bad taken' the said Oath of Se-
crecy, and was acquainted with the design,
whenever I went lo confession, my ghostly fa-
ther would be sure to examine me, how I had
kept my oath ; upon which, if my father con-
fessor did judge, that I Had npt so truly kept
the same, as I ought to have done, then must
I have taken the same Oath over again. Be-
sides, my ghostly father did frequently teach me
how to male use of equivocations and mental
reservations.
" First, how to defend myself against the
Protestants, if 1 were asked by a stranger, whe-
ther Mr. Rushton were a priest ? that then I
might lawfully deny it, or upon oath before a
magistrate, I might positively deny my know-
ledge of Rushton to be a Popish priest : but
then I must privately to rovseff make use of
this equivocation, That I did not see the said
Rushton take his orders beyond sea ; therefore
could not swear him. to be a priest. And then
followed the benefit of absolution, for this or
Any other service done for the good of the Rom-
ish religion.
" And indeed my penance io confession was
once enjoined me by Father Rushton to lash
myself wijth a cat-of-nine-tails, because I did
not deny with asseverations, to one Mr, Bur-
man, that he was no Popish priest; although I
did not confess the same to Mr. Burman, yet
he alledged, that I did it but faintly, and there-
fore that should be my penance.
" Secondly, if reproached by the Protes-
tants ; Tbat they of the Romish religion made
no conscience to destroy those that were of
contrary opinion to them ; tbat then with im-
precations I might lawfully deny the same;
only making use of this reservation to myself,
that I must deny any thing which is against the
interest of the church.
" Thirdly, that since the discovery of this
Popish Plot, if i did at any time hear, the Pro-
testants discourse, that they of the Romish
church did teach the murdering of kings and
princes, and that the king was to have been
murdered by the Papists, tbat then I must vin-
dicate (he Romish religion, arfuing, that tuch
L. C. J. In 1675 was this?
Bolron. Yes, my Idrd.
L. C. J. What time in 1675 ?
Bolron. A little before Easter.
L. C. J. Were you in the room ?
doctrine therapists held not, with reservation
td myself, that I must not own such a design,
unless effected, believing tbat Protestants, be-
ing becetics, had no power to examine we,
neither was I obliged to answer directly to the
question.
" The. ceremonies, manner and form need in
the taking of the said Oath of Secrecy, is thus t
"At the chapel door, did sprinkle myself
with holy water, and- then went into the chapel,
where, bowing towards the altar, I made the
sign of the cross, and said, Sprinkle me with
hyssop, and I shall be cleansed ; wash me, and
I shall be whiter' than snow ; Theu kneeling, I
made the sign of the cross, and said, In the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost, Amen. After that, I said certain
prayers used, before confession ; and at the
conclusion, made again the sign of the cross;
which being ended I went into the vestry,
where, kneeling, I asked my ghostly father's
blessing, as children usually do their parents.
Then after that, I made again the sign of the
cross, and then had the benefit of confession,
and absolution from my sins, and then I went
into the chapel, aud said prayers before receiv-
ing the Sacrament.
" But when mass was said, I did not com-
municate with the rest there present, although
the Sacrament was consecrated for me ; but,
after the rest were gone, then William Rushton
my ghostly father, called me to the altar,
where bowing my body and kneeling, I made
the sign of the cross ; then I kissed the mass-
book, and laid my right hand upon it, and so
had the Oath of Secrecy given me by my ghost-
ly father Rushton, repeating it after him. Bat
at these words, In testimony whereof I do re>
ceive this most holy and blessed Sacrament of
the Eucharist ; Rushton pot the Sacrament into
my mouth, and said this little Latin prayer fol-
lowing :
" * Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi costo-
* dia't animam tuam in vitam ssternam.' Amen.
" Then again I kissed the mass-book held in
the priest's hand, but held my hand on the
mass- book all the time I was taking the Oath
aforesaid ; and after that, rising, oowed my
body to the altar in an humble manner, and so
returned to my place again.
" Now after I had taken the said Oath of
Secrecy, Rushton went again into .the vestry, to
say his prayers on his breviary ; but I conti
tiuued still, in the chapel to say mj prayers
used after the taking or the Sacrament. Then,
after, Rushton my confessor came forth out of
the vesrry, he went towards his own chamber,
whither I followed him ; but sir Thomas Gas-
coigne hastily calling the said Rushton, he laid
down his breviary in bis closet, to which was no
door! and is situate near his chamber j whifjb
9733
StATE TRIALS, 32 Charles, 1L 16gO.— /or High Treason.
[»M
Bolron. I was in the next room, and the
door was not shot : and sir Thomas did say —
• Att. Gen. Tell the discourse what it was.
Bolron, He said be was resolved to male a
collusive conveyance of his estate, for fear it
said breviary I taking up, found therein the
laid Oath of Secrecy ; of which Oath I had a
sufficient time to take a true copy, and it is the
real copy- which is before recited ; although
when I took the copy of the said Oath, I never
intended that any Protestant should have seen it.
" The same day were hallowed for myself
two pistols, which were to be made use of, for
the destruction of the Protestant party, if the
Roman Catholic religion had prevailed in Eng-
land. ;
M There were also 'swords, guns and pistols
hallowed for Thomas Gascoigne, esq. and others
engaged in the Popish Plot. And in the said
month of February, I had an indulgence or
Sirdon for 30,000 years, given me by the said
ushton my ghostly father, for my encourage-
ment in my proceedings of being so zealous
against his majesty and government ; and the
penanee enjoined me was, to say every day a
litany for the intercession and conversion of
England ; but if I did twice a day say the said
Litany, then should I each day redeem a soul
out of purgatory, hut I have heard my ghostly
rather say, that some Catholics had their iu-
dolgencies for 50,000 years, others a plenary
indulgence to encourage them to be firmer to
-ibis design. Such a plenary indulgence I did
see in the hands of Mr. Mowbray, about the
latter end of January, 1676-7."
Then he gives the litany of Intercession, and
concludes thus :
>
" About the latter end of October, or the
beginning of November, 1678, my occasions
called me to Leeds Market, within four miles
of my habitation, and a market that I fre-
quently used : after my particular business was
done, my curiosity led me to go, as usually I
did, to a coffee-house; where amongst other
news and reports, I heard that one sir Ed-
mundbury Godfrey, a justice of peace at Lon-
don, was missing, and that it was suspected and
feared, that he was murdered or made away by
the Papists.
" At my return home, I repaired to sir Tho-
mas Gascoigne's house at Barmbow, one quar-
ter of a mile from my house, and there meeting
his son Thomas Gascoigne, esq. I acquainted
him with the news I beard at Leeds.
" Who thereupon took a letter out of his
pocket directed to himself, which he shewed
me ; which letter was subscribed, ' I. Corker,'
wherein he acquainted the esquire in words to
this effect : That sir Edmundbury Godfrey had
been a very busy man, and a great enemy to
the Catholics ; therefore they had procured him
to he destroyed,
" And some few days after we had the same
thing confirmed in print, viz. That be was mur-
dered. Upon wfcieb my ghostly father William
' should be forfeited to the king. And Charles
Jngleby said, it was best so to do, and then he
told sir Thomas he would have the defeazance
made ready, which he would draw with his own:
hands; hut he bid him be sure to bring none
Rushton, sent for me, to come to mass at sir
Thomas Gascoigne's house ; and at confession,
did charge me to' give out, That I heard, that
sir Edmundbury Godfrey was a melancholy
gentleman, and in a discontent went into the
fields, and there murdered himself with his own
sword.
" Which accordingly I did, as occasion oU
fered, in all companies I happened into ; but
was contradicted hy many ; and by some, that
it ceuld not be, for that his neck was broke,
which he could not do after he had murdered
himself; nor be capable to do it, if his neck
was broke before : And being thus run down
in my assertions, I acquainted my said ghostly
father William Rushton therewith, who told
me he had received new instructions, which
he shewed me in writing, and were to this ef-
fect:
" That sir Edmundbury Godfrey was a gen*
tleraan who had often attempted to destroy
himself; that he did really hang himself in his
own silk-girdle, in his chamber at the bed's
feet : which being discovered, two of his serv-
ants acquainted his brothers therewith; who*
coming thither, contrived his taking down, and
the carrying him to the place where he was
found ; where they run his corps through, on
purpose to throw it on the Papists, thereby to
save the estate to themselves, and from being
forfeited to the king : And that the two servt.
ants had 50/. a-piece given them to keep it
private. He also said that one of them, which
was a maid-servant, did offer to discover this
contrivance to his majesty and council, but
that she was by them rejected : Nevertheless,
for all this, at the same time Rushton- did own
to me, that he was murdered by the Papists,
but by what hands he knew not ; and further,
he seemed much concerned that it was done ;,
wishing it had never been done, because it
would make the murder of the king the more
difficult to be performed.
u Robert Bolron."
" Au Abstract of the Accusation of Robert
Bo l ron and Lawrence Mat bury, Serv-
ants, against their late Master, Sir Thomas
Gascoigne, kt. and bart. of Barnbow in,
, Yorkshire, for High Treason : with his
Trial and Acquittal, Feb. 11, 1680; 'Fit
' error novissimus pejor priore ;' Priuted
for C. R. 1680.
Robert Bolron, of New-Castle-upon-Tyne,
was bound apprentice to Mr. Deale, a jeweller
in Pye-corner, London. He abandoned bis
master in a twelvemonth, and listed himself a
foot-soldier in Tmmouth-castle. He was with
others thence put on board the Rainbow frigate,
in the second war against the Dutch. He got
•shore, and came in his yellow coat to sir
A
A
973] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chablbs II. I MO.— Trial 0/ Sir Thomas <h$#4gu, [97«
bot Protestant witnesses along with him to tee-*
tiry. And in' 1675, 1 did go along with sir T.
GaeoNgnetosir William Ingleby's of Riple? ,
and there I did see him receive colourably
1,0001.
L. C* J. How do you know it was colourablj ?
Mr, Bolron. I did hear sir Thomas tell
Charles Inglebyao.
Thomas Gascoiene's douse, having acquaintance
with Richard Pepper, one of his servants, and
thence he went to Newcastle.
He sometime after much importuned the
taid Pepper to recommend him to sir Thomas's
Service, upon pretence of his having been used
to look after coal mines near Newcastle ; and
by his means he was admitted to over-look a
small colliery of sir Thomas's.
Lawrence Maybury, (being the son of a day*
labouring forge-smith about Leeds and now of
late a buro-bailiff) through the mean* of Francis
Johnson (one of sir Thomas's tenants.and neigh-
bours) was preferred to be sir Thomas's foot-
boy. Tho same Maybury being laid in a
chamber, where was a secret place, in which
the lady Tempest (sir Thomas's own daughter,
upon Iter going to London about Midsummer
1675,) put a small little trunk, and in it some
twenty pieces of gold, her wedding ring, and
several little stone rings, medals, and other
things, to the value of about sixty pounds, and
he who was known to all the servants not to be
worth a groat, and having but a small salary,
being afterwards discovered to have gold, silver,
a large wedding-ring, and other rings ; and the
lady Tempest returning about August and the
trunk being gone, and these particulars talked
of, he became vehemently suspected to be the
thief. Howbeit her ladyship, not having certain
proofs, did not prosecute him ; but upon the
14th of January following sir Thomas turned
him .away, both for suspicion of the said theft,
and for some iosolent attempts upon his maids.
Maybury being discharged in January, cloaths
himself finely, and sets up for a gentleman,
goes to the daucing»school at York, intrudes
into the company of some of the gentry, ap-
pears flush of money, and at the Sunday after
Easter he called at Sir Thomas's, desiring to be
admitted to prayers into the hou*, but was po-
sitively denied ; others of the family (having
within some weeks after the said Maybury's
being gone) missed lOOL in a bag, besides other
mome«, out of the place where they kept their
money. Finding hitu»elf much eyed and taken
notice of by those who knew him, about May
the spark comes to London ; and not contented
with the name of Maybury, as be used to write
himself before, be now assumes the more ho-
nourable title of Mowbray, takes lodgings in
Seaborn* where he spent most part of that
summer. He gives himself out also to be a
great heir, borrows a gentleman's coach, courts
a gentlewoman of qualitf ^having 1500s1. to her
portion j being refused, be writes verses (such
as they were) against her. About which time,
fetjng ia company with same gentlemen, into
X. C J. When was that f
Bolron. The 7th or 8tb of April; the dead
bears the 8th of April 1675.
X.C.X WasChaclea Ingleby thereat that
time?
Bolron. Yes, when the deed waa sealed; and
be read it in the presence of the witnesses to be
dated at that time.
■" W ■■..■■ II ■ - -I 11.11 I ■! | III
whom he had insinuated himself, be fairly bar*
rowed pf them a sum of money, (about TO/.)
giving them a bill of exchange on his pretended
merchant in London for security ; but the mer-
chant being soon enquired of, had no advice,
nor knew neither Maybury, nor any else con-
cerned in the bill ; which therefore beine dis-
covered to be a forgery, be leaves his residence
above-said, pretending to go in all haste to War-
wickshire to take possession of 400/. per annum
just fallen to him ; but in very few days after
his old landlord found him in an obscure house
near Smithfield, absconding for fear of those be
bad wronged : On the 24th of December he
removes again, pretending to Bisbopsgste-
street; and in the beginning of February nest
ensuing, (having debauched and played awar
his money) as easily as he got it, be made such
shift as to return to Leeds, bot with a lighter
purse, and far heavier heart than he parted from
thence; and having formerly, by the charity of
sir Thomas, improved his hand-writing, he now
sets up a school for that purpose.
Bolron likewise being after some time mors
than suspected to be an ill man, his accounts
of the colliery were inspected, and upon the
!>erusal of them in February 1677-8, be was
bund to have received about 300/. for cosls,
and accounted for to sir Thomas but COL
whereof much more was due. That he bad
defrauded sir Thomas very much in other pre-
tended disbursements about the colliery ; sod
that he had taken out of sir Thomas's chamber
a book of accounts, whereby it appeared fee
he bad wronged his master more particularly of
other monies and dues, and that he returnee1
many persons indebted for coals, who in truth
had paid him i Hereupon air Thomas resolved
not only to part with him, but to punish him
accordiug to law ; but upon his earnest be-
seeching sir Thomas to shew him mercy, he in
compassion accepted of IS/, and two bonds for
payment of 48/. principal more, and so about
April 1678 let bim go quietly and peaceably
away ; sir Thomas (like a good christian) being
desirous he might amend, and do better in an-
other sei vice.
Mr. Thomas Gascoigoe, sir Thomas's eJ«V»j
son, having resolved, by reason of the trouble*
to those of his church, or in general to Ca*"0*
lie's, to go beyond seas, as many others <M"J
took leave of sir Thomas in order thereunto at
the end of March j and having obtained n»
majesty's passport on the 4th of ApriJ follow-
ing, he went from London to. Dover the *ta
of that month, and letters were received froa
him in his way to Paris, (and as by a public tes-
limoayeJ since sent) he settled hi»*ttf **• "*
<J77]
STATE TfelALS, 32 Char?.bs II. 1680.-; for Hi&h Treason.
[!)78
Jost. DolBen. What, that 1,000/. was the
consideration of the deed }
Boiron. Yes, it was. Sir Thomas Gascoigne
did part thereby with all his estate for seven
years, he allowing him 100/. a year for his main*
teuance, besides the 1,000/. at first paid. And
this was done with that intent, lor fear be
should be discovered in the plot for killing the
king—:
»
first of May following new stile, or 30 April
old stile, and was not yet departed thence, as
sntmy witnesses now in England can testify.
About ft year after his the said Botron's de-
parture from sir Thomas, he being still in-
debted to sir Thomas, and abo to others of the
family, tic. to Mr. Thomas Gascoigne, and his
sister the lady Tempest; and being now he-
come insolent by his Own ill government, he de-
clares himself a Protestant, and accordingly
takes the oaths at Pontefract sessions ; being
also called upon for the aforesaid payments,
lie earnestly pfessed one of Mr. Thomas's ser-
vants, with whom he thought he was intimate,
to assist him to steal a hundred pound from his
inaster, or otherwise to acqunint him where his
toaster's money lay, that he might do it himself;
but not prevailing therein, he importuned him
at least to steal from sir Thomas the bonds, for
Which he promised to reward him.
Sir Thomas observing Bolron's declining con-
dition, sent a servant for hint, whereat Boiron
seemed much concerned, and amongst other
things told the messenger, that he had been
reading the printed trials, and that he had
learned T. O. his way of witnessing so ex-
actly, that he did not doubt to hang any man
whom he pleased ; but upon the 20th of May
he came to sir Thomas, to tender a mortgage
of a poor house his father left him at New-
castle' ; which sir Thomas then slighted, having
several others bound with him for the debt, the
next day being the remarkable 30th of May
fast, (and on which day BoJron had laid the
ground of his principal accusation ;) sir Thomas
stirred not from about home, and about six of
the clock that evening one of sir Thomas's ser-
vants went to the house of Nicholas Ship pen,
not a quarter of a mile from Bolron's house, and
there found* fiofron, who said he had lain pri-
vate there most part of that day for fear of the
bailHIs ; and moreover, that he would now keep
himself concealed, and get into the coal-pit at
Castleforth not far off, where he was sure the
r&ilifrs should not find him.
Boiron having by his wife (who was formerly
a servant in the family) gotten into one of sir
Thomas's farms, and being in arrear of rent also,
a declaration of Ejectment was ordered by sir
Thomas lo be delivered him, and on the 4th of
June (following the abovesaid 30th of May)
BolrOn had notice thereof, about which time
fiolron went to sir Thomas's house, and slipt up
to Mr. Rushton's chamber ; but at his coming
down seemed muoh in passion; and told one of
Sir Thomas's servants, that he had been with
Mr. Rushton to borrow 5/. but was refused it,
VQL. VII.
L. C. J. How do you know that ?
Boiron. I did hear *»ir Thomas Gascoigne and
sir Miles Stapleton discourse or' it, and he said
it was for that end.
L. C. J. Where was that discourse?
Boiron. In sir T. Gascuigne's bed-chamber.
Just. Jonet. When was that?
Boiron. It- was in or about the discovery of
the Plot.
and with a great oatb vowed to he revenged on
him, going away without speaking to sir
Thomas. <,
Boiron having now resolved revenge, told his
wife he would now pay sir Thomas all, by
mortgaging his bou.se at Newcastle, wherein
she had her jointure, if she would give consent -
to it ; she consenting at length, he brought her
a writing to sign, purporting her consent, as he
pretended, to her. He likewise pretended to
sir Thomas's attorney, that he had gained his
wife's consent to mortgage or sell the said
house, and prayed him to prepare a deed of
mortgage thereof to sir Thomas; and he did
do,' having persuaded sir Thomas to accept it;
but it proved ineffectual.
Boiron being become more and more en%
raped, and having studied the several procla-
mations which had come forth since T. O. sup-
posed discovery of the plot, goes to Broderton
Tyndal, esq. ; justice of the peace, and informs
him several things against Rushton ; and that
Mrs. Mary Presseck, wife to sir Thomas's ser-
vant, had spoken several strange words con-
cerning his majesty. Afterwards he gave his
information to William Lowther, esq. another*
justice of the peace. After that he attended
Mr. Lowther, Mr. Tindal, and Mr. Francis
White, esq. ; a third neighbouring justice of the ,
peace, and there likewise confirmed to them
what he had said the two former days, and then
desired four or five days to give them a farther'
account.
Boiron attending them accordingly, requested
that the former information he had given thtm
might be returned to him ; but it was told bins, '
that the informations he had given them were
sent up to London ; and thereupon he resolved
to follow them, and prayed them to lend him a
little money for his journey, (for he was grown
very low) and he said they gave him 8r. 6df
towards it, and Mr. Tyndal gave him a letter of
directions and assistance to his brother in
London ; hut another of them (a neighbour of
sir Thomas's) gave him something more to make
quicker expedition; hut he perceiving that
most of the justices would give little faith to his
informations, they being made up of hearsays,
contradictions, and improbabilities, and Mr.
Thomas Gascoigne, whom he involved, being
gone beyond sea near two months before the
time hinted of the 30th of May ; and that
therefore they would issue out no warrants
against any whom he had accused, but a ser-
vant, which otherwise (as the whole country
knows) they would most readily have done, he
resolved to mend his error when he came to
3R
D791 STATE TRIALS, 32 Cifarles II. 1680.— Trial tf&r Thomas Gascoigne, [980
L. C. J. But you say you saw the deed sealed ?
Bolron. Yes I was a witness to it.
L. C. J. And you saw the money paid ?
Bolron. I aqd one Matthias Higgringil did
help to count it.
Just. Jones. Were you a Protestant at that
time ?
London ; and so by becoming a king's witness
to be above all wants, and also be revenged on
$ir Thomas, and secured from him, and all other
his creditors ; and in order to those good ends,
(he gave out in the country, he would go to
Newcastle and sell his house) but instead
thereof he hasted to London immediately.
At Ware upon the road he lost justice Tyn-
dal's letter ; but getting to the Green Dragon
in Bisbopsgate-street upon the 3rd of July fol-
lowing, he immediately acquainted the landlord
with his errand, and by his 'directions goes in
all haste to sir Robert Clayton, and the next
day, viz. the 4th of July, he attended the right
honourable the lord president Shaftsbury, and
the lords of his majesty's privy council, and po-
sitively upon oath accuseth sir Thomas and
others of consultations in relation to the king's
death ; for he swore that upon the 30th day of
May, lie* being at sir Thomas's house, sir Tho-
mas bade him go into the gallery, where Rush-
Con, though he were so angry with him the
said Bolron, as Bolron swore, for taking the
oath of allegiance, that he was ready to have
strucken him, nevertheless tempted him in
express terms to kill the king ; and that upon
his refusing to do it, Itushton prayed him how-
ever to keep it secret. That waiting by sir
Thtfmas's appointment till his return, air Tho-
mas about six of the clock that evening took him
-into his chamber, and having asked him
what Itushton said to him, sir Thomas told
fnro, That if be would undertake a design
to help to kill the king, he would send him to
•his son Mr. Thomas Gascoigne, who should
instruct him how to do it, and he should have
1,000/. reward ; but refusing again to have
any hand in blood, sir Thomas desired him of
til love to keep it secret. Now as to the ac-
count the said Bolron then gave of sir Thomas
his servant*, he declared, that Maybury went
away about suspicion of a trunk the lady Tem-
pest Jiad. lost, with monies and jewels in it; for
then be had not pitched on Che said Maybury
for his second witne&s, as afterwards in a month,
vr thereabouts, he did.
Their lordships presently sent away Bolron
and a messenger into Yorkshire for sir Thorn as;
and in the mean time examined those persons
in London, to whom Bolron had directed them
Where to find or bear of Mr. Thomas Gascoigne,
ton to sir Thomas mentioned in the abovesaid
accusation, ancf wfien they saw him last. But
their lordships soon found upon enquiry, that
Mr. Gascoigne was theu and long before gone
beyond sea, having set forward for Dover, viz.
on the 7th of April, and was so far from being
seen since in town by them, that several letters
had leen received from him beyond sea by the
Bolron. Yes, my Lord, I was at the time of
the sealing the deed ; but I did hear the dis-
course between sir Miles Stapleton and sir T.
Gascoigne upon the discovery of the plot, when
I was a papist.
L. C. J. When was the discourse you speak
of with sir Miles Stapleton, do you say?
post, with the post mark on them, which caused
strange reflections on this new evidence given
by Bolron : and therefore these persons being
separately examined by the lord president,
were admonished to take great care what they
answered, for that it was sworn (by Bolron and
another) that Mr. Gascoigne was seen at
London both the beginning and latter ead of
May by several ; whereto h was replied by one
of them under examination, That on that 30th
of May be assisted in a cause or law-suit of
sir Thomas's against one Mr. Neltborp ii Lon-
don, and that his son's presence, if he were in
London, had been necessary, and that if Mr.
.Thomas had been any where near, he would
have appeared at it to have supplied bis
father's place at the said trial in Chancery :
naj Bolron himself has since deposed, that one
' principal cause of Mr. Gascoigne's coming ta
town when he left the country, was this very
law business with Mr. Neltborp, bow truly the
effect hath shewn, as well as of the rest of those
allegations.
The 7th of July sir Thomas was taken into
custody, late at night, out of his house at Bam-
bow, 14 miles from York, and Bolron caused s
warrant to be served on bis own wife and
grand-mother, to testily before Mr. Lowtber
and Mr, Tindal what they knew of the things
they had charged sir Thomas with ; but they
were very unwilling to go, and protested before
God, that they never knew nor beard of any ill
by the said sir Thomas, or any thing in the
leastways concerning any wicked design against
the king's person, the government, or leh'fion
of the nation. Whereupon the said Bolron
being much enraged, swore and threatened,
and then said', if tbey would go and testify
what he had sworn against sir Thomas, be
should get 500/. by it; but if they refused to do
so, he should be utterly undone ; after this
Bolron was very melancholy, and being asked
if his conscience did not trouble him (or wwjt
be had sworn against sir Thomas, he declared,
that if some persons would pass it by, be would
not prosecute him any further. One of *»
Thomas's servants went to Bolron's house that
night about nine o'clock, and found Bolron f
wife in bed crying extremely, complaining tbst
her husband had lately made her sefher band
to a writing, pretending to her that it only con*
cerned her consent to part with her right to tbe
bouse at Newcastle, which she willingly,
agreed to ; but she now found it was *wntiDsT
wherein her husband had accused sir Thomas,
and several others, but had not found proper to
produce it as vet.
The 18th of that month sir Thomas was ex-
amined at the council-board, and the day l«-
981]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[9*2
; Bolron. It was about tbe discovery of tbe
Plot.
X. C. J. After the money paid ?
Bolron. Yes, after the orbney paid : and he
said to sir Miles Stapleton, be had done well
to make over his estate.
lowing he was committed to the Tower ; uow
Bolron (who was also returned) considering
that he had often named Mr. Corker, (a pri-
soner in Newgate) as a man be intimately
knew, though in truth he bad never seen him
in his life ; and thinking also thai it was ne-
cessary he should be able to distinguish him at
least from other men, (against the time he
should be brought to charge him about the
Plot, and about tbe monies returned to him)
he came on the 22d of July last to the press-
yard at Newgate, in another man's name*, de-
siring tbe turn-key to bring Mr. Corker to bim ;
Mr. Corker being informed that a stranger
would speak with him, very prudently desired a
gentleman then present to step down, and see
who it was; the gentleman coming into tbe
box, and asking before some Protestants that
were by, who would speak with Mr. Corker ?
Bolron supposing him to be the man, called
bim Mr. Corker, and asked him bow he did,
pretending a particular knowledge of him, and
several years acquaintance with him ; whereat
the gentleman following the humour, sate down
by him, and drank with bim ; so that the fa-
miliarity encreasing, Bolron (among other
things) told him be had several times heard him
say mass ; whereupon Mr. Corker being made
acquainted with this pleasant passage, came
down to tbe box likewise, and sate by Bolron,
who knew him not in the least, but wholly ap-
plied himself to the other ; all which the Pro-
testants, and others present, have attested
under their bands.
Tbe like accident happened to Bolron the
last summer assizes at York ; for there he de-
manded of Mr. Butler the gaoler a sight of
his prisoners, (a method learned of the con-
fraternity at London, to whom all prisons were
open at their call) and having there tho-
roughly viewed and surveyed one Lambert, be
at length saluted him by the name of one
Osbaldestone ; who answering that he was
not the man, Bolroo told him that he was, and
that be would swear that he Ijeard bim say
mass : whereon Mr. Butler replied, that he was
a rash man, for that Lambert was a tradesman,
as several could testify, and besides, Osbald-
stone was 95 years elder.
At this time Bolron becoming more known
in London, and familiar, was advertised by
some of his new colleagues, and well-wishers,
in plain language, that be had made a mighty
false step in swearing on the 4th of July, That
sir Thomas bad said to him on the 30th of May
last, that if he would assist to kill the king, he
would send him to his son Thomas, who would
instruct him bow do it, and that he should have
1,0002. reward ; whereas in truth it was found
that Mr. Thomas Gascoigne was gone to Paris
X. C. J. That is an abrupt thing for him to
say ; how did he begin the discourse ?
Bolron. They were discoursing about the
discovery of the Plot by Dr. Oates and Mr.
Bed low ; and then sir T. Gascoigne said to sir
Miles Stapleton, I have done well to make
about eight weeks before that 30th of May,
with his majesty's licence or passport, and had
continued there ever since in much compaiu/.
Bolron was extremely surprized in having so
unluckily named Mr. Tho. Gascoigne to be his
assistant to kill the king, at a time when he was
not upon the land, nor of so many weeks before
had been, and which his former deposition im-
plied, and as he had assured the lords on oath,
and they had found it different, Bolron w*s at
a loss, but his brethren had bethought them of
a salvo ; he confided the point to others also,
shews them copies of all, and it was resolved the
redress should be by a second additional in for*
mation (given in about the end of the said July)
to reconcile the former, and to cover the artifice*
of it by a latter superfostation of such old- and
new things as might be proper, and seem na-
tural ; but it is plain, the drift of the said ad-
dition was to make sir Thomas have spoken to
him in these different words from his former,
viz. If thuu wilt undertake to assist to kill the
king, I wilt send thee to my son, (if in town)
who, with the rest that are concerned, shali
instruct thee how thou shalt assist in it, ana1
thou shalt have 1,000/. reward. Having sworn
thus in his second deposition, and composed
the matter as he thought, the consult advised
him to apply now to the greatest difficulty,
which, was to get a second witness, who might
confirm what he had already sworn.
Therefore about the beginning of August he
sets out for Yorkshire; and pretending he had
many priests and others concerned in nis Plot,
he obtained monies and commissions to seize
and secure all such papists as he found ob-
noxious ; and under this pretence going to
Leeds, he wonderfully caressed his old fellow-
servant Maybury, informs him of the several
proclamations, narratives, and other transac-
tions at London, shews him how much the
world was mended with bim, ttlls him how easy
it is, not only to get a pardon for any former
felony, forgeries, &c. but to make ones fortunes
for ever, and also to be revenged on all enemies.
And that certainly the lady Tempest (daughter
to sir Thomas Gascoigne) could not be deemest
his friend, who had so defamed bim, and
blasted bis reputation in her noise about her
trunk, and the monies taken from tbe family,
which in time might have a worse effect, and be
suffer for it, when too late to repent the loss
of this golden opportunity to destroy her and
secure himself.
Mavbury thus won in a few days, declares
himself a witness, notwithstanding he had a
few days before protested to several, (who were
amazed at sir Thomas's charge) that he believed
htm to be most unjustly accused ; nay Bolron
was so pleased with his new conquest, that be
9S3] STATE TRIALS, 32 Qhaklu II, l^O^-TVfW qf Si* Thomas Q<W*igne, [M
Qver my estate to sir William Ingleby, to
prevent a forfeiture.
L. C. J. What said lir Miles Stapleton ?
Bolron. I do not know what he said very
well.
L.-C.J. You seemed but now, as if he had
said he was in the Plot. -
tells a young woman, (whom Maybury courted)
that she might marry him now with satisfac-
tion, for% that he had engaged him, the said
Maybury, iu a business against sir Thomas,
aud thai he should he well rewarded out of his
estate, and corne to great preferment. Methods
and circumstances being now fully settled and
agreed upon by them, Maybury goes to Mr.
Tyndal and Lowther, justices of peace, and ac-
quaints them iu short of his business ; where-
upon the 16th of August the said Maybury in-
forms them upon oath, (and as it appears in bis
narrative more at large) thar sir Thomas Gas-
coigne and sir Miles Stapleton had made deeds
of trust of their estates, and that about
Michaelmas 1676, $ir Thomas, his son Mr.
Thomas, the lady Tempest, and Mr. Rushton,
being in Barn bow dining room, he heard, tbem
holding several discourses concerning killing
the king, and firing of London aud York, &c.
That there was in the house one Jpr.
Stapleton, who coming from another room, and
finding bjoi at the door, went in, and iu a low
voice desired them to forbear their discourse,
for there was one at the door. And there-
upon her ladyship called him in, and sent him
down to entertain some strangers ; nnd that he.
heard several discourses from air Thomas and
Rushton about a nunnery to be established at
Dolebauk, and of sir Thomas's selling 90/.
per annum for maintain ine it.
Whilst Maybury was nugging himself with
Bolron, that this information would suddenly
be at the council board, be found more than a
fortnight passed, and no manner of notice taken
of him, his impatience prompts bim the last of
that month to write to sir John Nicholas, that
there were divers material circumstances re-
lating to hjs discovery, which were not inserted
in his first information before the justices, which
should be declared when the council should
command a full account from Uini. Upon this
he had. a summons by a messenger sent him on
purpose, and a letter superscribed To Mr.
Lawrence Mowbj^y,at his bouse in Yorkshire;
and so repairing to London on the 2nd of
October following, he informed justice War cup
by order of council upon oath, that he had not
discovered ail he knew of the horrid plot, for
fear of Yorkshire papists, whom be was to de-
tect : bttt now would do it, conceiving himself
under the protection of the council, and
hoping that they would intercede for bis par-
don.
'k'liere wanted not several of different con-
ceptions, who (on occasion of the imperfect
aud defective management of this trial, by rea-
son of the prisoner's being decayed, as well in
mind as body) did speak and vote variously of
Justice Jones. Did be own be was jn the
Plot?
Bolron. Yea.
X. C. J. When ?
Bolron. At several times.
Serj. Maynard. Tell the manner bow he was
concerned.
the success, so that some of the jury moved st
it, did give out minutes of the trial, and the.
reasons which led them to their verdict, to
many of their acquaintance, and in reality who
conversed the prisoner more intimately did per-
ceive be was become very incapable and unfit
for such a performance, being dosed with yesjs,
bis sense decayed, and his mind disused and ab-
stracted of late from conversation. The panspht
lets of the age have made him since his trials
fugitive beyond seas; but his unsatiabk pro-
secutors have him in fresh pursuit here on new
pretences, and have wearied tlie Attorney
General with search and exposition of the Jaws,
to bind and fasten him on some new tester;
yet the old gentleman prays for them and tbt
nation ; his life is at the king's service, and bis
soul travelling to bit Creator, who hath aha
witnessed for him, given bim length of days oa
the land, a blessing promised of old to tboat
who honour and obey their superiors, as be pre*
(esses to have done, and hopes it will appear
better when some of those persons come upon
their last pillow, where God grant them bis
grace and true repentance. ' Magna est veiitat
et prsvalebit.'
An Attestation of a certain Intercourse had
between Robert Bolron, and Mr. Tho-
mas Langhorn, (mistaken by Bolron for
Mr. Ja. Corker) wherein is manifested the
Falshood and Perjury of the said Bolron.
On the 22nd of July 1679, there came to tkf
Press yard adjacent to Newgate two persons, the
one called himself by the name of Baker, **»
the other called himself by the name of James,
Baker declared be was toe man who had ac-
cused Mrs. Preswike, and Mj/ Timing, and »J
now known to be Bolron. These persons uw
the Turnkey they came to speak with Mr.
Corker : Hereupon they were led into a drink'
ing room, and $*r. Corker was called ; bat at
having experienced the falsified oatlis of others
who tad ttcrer seen bim, and happily reflect*!
these might bftsocb, desired Mr. Thomas &HT
horn, who was by chance thene, to go do*1
atfd see who they were ; the which Mr. Too*
Langhorn did ; and coming iuto the company
of Bolron, tfais discourse foijpved. M'- ^°S*
horn said, Would you. speak ^iibnie? Bof*1
answered, Yojtr servant Air. Corker. «'•
Langhorn said, Do you know me ? Bolron an-
swered, Yes, I know, you well, you will not aeef
yourself to be Mr. Corker? Mr. Lw£*°«
said, D*n»y myself? what are you? what *
your name ? Bolron answered, You know my
wife well, and I know you well* and \ "BVf
known you several years, and seen y«w insac*
and such plaqea,(wbig>> places henamedO
4
985]
STATS TOUUi, 33 CaUtw II. ifl8<Wfer H*h Tnwm.
B&m. My Ii>r4> in 1676, 1 did hear sir T.
Gascoigne say to one Christopher Metcalfe,
that he was resolved tq tend 3,000/. tp the
Jesuits ip London fur the carrying on of the de-
sign. *
. £, C. J. What time in 1676 ?
; golwn. The beginning of the year 16 J 6,
X. C. J. To whom did he aay to?.
Bolron. To ooe Christopher Metcalfe.
L. C. /. Were you a papist then f
Bolron. Yes.
£. C. /. When came you first to be a papist?
Bolron. About Whitsuntide, 1675.
Just. Jones. You are a Psotestant now ?
Bolron. Yes my Lord, I am so.
X. £. J. When did you turn Protestant again ?
Bolron. I turaed Protestant upon the dis-
covery of this business.
J*. C.J. When?
Bolron. Either the beginning of May, or the
biter end of June.
X. C. J. To whom did he speak it ?
Bolron. To Christopher Metcalfe; who then
Used in hi* boas*. ^
I* C.J. Wbatteidbe?
. Bolrgu. lie said it vae to send 3,000/. to the
After some time spent in discouijse to this
and the like effect, Mr* Corker himself, together
with an under clerk of the press yard, came
into their company ; but $oJrou neither own-
ing nor knowing Mr. Corker, the discourse con-
tinued, amongst other things, (Bolron still ad-
dressing himself to Mr. Langhorn) affirmed se-
veral times, That he knew him to be Mr.
Corker, and confirmed it by often calling him
Mr. Corner, .and. saying to him, I have seen you
sometimes in the company of Mr. Hubbert,
and sometimes in the company of Mr. Pepper,
in the company of Mr. Haskit, and several
others ; I hare seen yon in London, and in the
country ia Yorkshire, Using further expres-
- sions of a long endea/ed familiarity with him.
4>t length Mf» Corker, wearied with his knper-
tinencies, going out of the room, Bolron en-
quired who that gentleman was ) Soon nfter
^>e^turnkey coming by chancy in, with wine,
and tobacco, Bolron in the presence of the said
turnkey, Mr. Thomas Lanfthorn, and the aaid
under clerk, called Mr. Langbprn by the name of
ifo. Corker, and said he knew him ; ami being
desired by Mr. Langhorn to tell what be knew
of him he again positively affirmed* that he
kgoewhim; and added iu the presence of the
aforesaid witnesses these words, I know you.
to be a priest, and I have seen. you say mass.
The under clerk admiring the impudence of
9f4rqn, herein jestingly told him, that seeing he
pretended so much friendship find acquaintance,
with Mr. Corker, he would do well to do him a
kindness in not revealing what he knew; and if
yon do him a pennyworth of kindness, said
the aajd clerk, Mr. Conker will give you a pound
for it. Bolron answered, Ay, then something
may be done. Mr. Langhorn, who all this
while was supposed by the said Bolron to be
Mr. Corker, replied, I *iU gj*c nothing by way
Jesuits in London, for the carrying on *of this
design*
X. C. J. Who was in the room besides ?
Bolron, None but -sir T. Gascoigne and
Metcalfe.
X. C. J, Where is that Metcalfe?
Bolron. He is since dead, I think.
X. C. J. What discourse had they about the
design ?
Bolron. They were discoursing about it when
I came in; apd I rememher he mentioned
300/. for Corker, 300/. for Harcourt, and 500/.
for Cornwallis ; and the rest by 300/. a-piece
to other persons.
Att. den. What name did Cornwallis go by
besides?
Bolron. Praoid, my Lord.
Ml. Gen. That is the name that is to the
letter.
Just. Femberton. Well, what do you know
more?
Bolron. My Lord, sir T. Gascoigne told this
Christ. Metcalfe, that he would return k bp
300/: at a time, to prevent suspicion, by the
hands of Richard Phisigk; and about the be-
ginning of 1677, 1 did hear sir T. Gascoigne say,
of bribe. Bolron answered No, I will take no-
thing by that name. This is the substance of
this intercourse, and will be attested to be true,
as it is here respectively set down.
Now notwithstanding this so often repeated
confident asseveration of Boiron's intimate ac-
quaintance and familiarity with Mr. Corker, se-
conded here by so many pretended circumstan-
tial instances of known friendship with him;
yet it is most certain, that he never knew or
saw Mr. Corker, till this before mentioned in-
tercourse at Newgate : As is palpably manifest,
both in that he took Mr. Langhorn for Mr.
Corker, and conversed with him as s>uch in the
very presence of Mr. Corker. And also in that
Mr. Corker being brought to Bolron V race be-
fore the lords of his majesty's privy council on,
the 13th of this present October, he denied
Mr. Corker to be the man that was shewn to
him at Newgate. And after a long and full
view bad of Mr. Corker, he durst not positively;
affirm, that the person there present was hft
against whom he bad any thing to say ; but ex-
pressing lu'niself doubtfully, desired time of de-
liberation in it.
These notorious undeniable cQufradicrions,
I will it is hoped, convince judicious men, that
i)o credit ou.ght to be given, in a matter of no
less than High-Treason, to au indigent wretch,
of a lost conscience, and condemned of false*
hood by the testimony of his on n mouth.
We under- written do respectively testify,
That what is here said of the intercourse had
between. Mr. Bolron, and Mr. Thomas Lang-
horn, is true in the whole, and every part thereof.
Witness our hands the 13th day of January,
1679.
Witnessed in the presence of £. Smith,
Jonathan Grove, Francis Leea, Tbo. Matches
Bpokje Bookey, Tho* Langiiprn.
957] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Trial of Sir Thomas Gaxmgnc, [9SS
that he hud returned it; and that if it had been
a thousand times as much, he would be glad to
spend it all in bo good a cause.
X. C. J. Did he say he had returned all the
3,ooo£ ?
Bolron. Yes.
X. C. X Did he tell you how it was to be dis-
posed of ?
Bolron, It was to be disposed among the Je-
suits for the carrying on of the design.
X. C. X That was in the general ; but this
900/. you speak of was to those three priests?
Bolron. Yes.
Just. Jones. You say he resolved to send
3,000/. to the Jesuits at Londrn about this de-
sign : pray what was the design ? What did they
say about the Plot at that time ?
Bolron. My Lord, at other times I have
beard them say it was for killing the king.
X. C. X What said Metcalfe to all this?
Bolron. He did allow of it, and thought it was
the best way so to do. I have seen him return
several sums by Richard Phisick.
Justice Dolben. Was Metcalfe a papist?
Bolron. Yes, and he died so, as I have
beard.
X. C. X Was you in the room when they first
began the discourse ?
Bolron. No, my lord, I came in when they
were discoursing. -
X. C J. You came in when they were talk-
ing, you say; but they did not stop talking be-
cause you came in ?
Bolron. No, my lord, because I knew of it;
I was brought in by one Rushton, who was ac-
quainted with the plot, to know of it, and there-
fore they did not stop me when I cameiu.
X. C. X You say he said, I will return 3,000/.
to the Jesuits in London : Did he say in what
time be would send that 3,000/. f
Bolron. No, but in 1676 he said he would
do it.
X. C. J. And it should be employed for car-
rying on of the design ?
Bolron. Yes, those were the words.
X. C. X And in 1677 y*u heard him talk
with Metcalfe again? And then he said, If it
had been a thousand times as much he would
have sent it ?
Bolron. Yes.
X. C. J. Was nobody there bat he, sir T.
Gascoigrie, and you ?
Bolron. Nobody else.
X. C. J. Then go on with your evidence.
Bolron. Tidy lord, in 1677 several gentlemen
did meet and assemble together at Barnbow-
hall in the county of York, sirT. Gascoigne's
house ; and their resolution was this, That they
would build a nunnery at Dolebank, in case
that their design and plot of killing the king
should take effect, and the Roman catholic
religion be established in England ; upon which
account, the company there present did resolve
they would lose their lives and estates to further
it; And sir T. Gascoigrie did conclude he
would give 90/. a year for ever for the mainte-
nance of this nunnery ;v upon which they all
agreed, that after his death he should be ca-
nonized a saint.
X. C. X Who were these gentlemen ?
Bolron. Sir Miles Staple ton, Charles Ingleby,
esq. Gascoigne, my lady Tempest, Thomas
Timing, sir Walter Vevasor, sir Francis Huo-
gatt, and Robert Killingbeck, a Jesuit, and
William Rushton a Romish priest.
Justice Pemberten. Is he dead ?
Bolron. No, he is fled beyond sea.
X. C. X Who else ?
Bolron. These are the persons lean remem-
ber at present.
X. C. X There was a woman there, yea
say?
Bolron. My lady Tempest, my lord, and
one William Ru&hton, if you had not him
before.
Justice Dolben. That was your confessor?
Bolron. Yes, and engaged me in the plot
Justice Pembcrton. What was your discourse?
Pray tell that.
Bolron. The discourse was upon establishing
a nunnery at Dolebank, in hopes that the plot
of killing the king would take effect; the inten-
tion was to alter the government, and to intro-
duce the Romish religion.
X. C. X Who was it said this?
Bolron. It was spoken by sir T. Gascoigne,
and the rest of the gentlemen.
X. C. J. In their discourse?
Bolron. Yes.
X. C. X Did they speak of kilting the king ?
Bolron. Yes, my lord, sir Francis Hungatt
said it several times. *
X. C. J. How ? Upon what account ?
Bolron. They were mutually resolved, and
they would talk that they would venture their
lives and estates in hopes that the plot would
take effect; and accordingly about Michaelmas
1677, or near upon, as I remember- — —
X. C. X How long staid they there?
Bolron. About sis or seven hours.
X. C. J. Were you with them in the room
still ?
Bolron. My lord, I was sometimes in the
room, and sometimes out : What discourse I
heard, I tell you ; there was one Barloe — ■
, X. C. X What was that Barloe ?
Bolron. I have had two orders of council for
the seizing of him, and never could take him;
he is a priest.
L.C.J. Was he by?
Bolron. He went with them to take posses-
sion of the nunnery.
X. C. X Was he not in the house ?
Bolron. No, not in the room at that t^me*
X. C. X Was there any servant by in tW
room when this discourse was ?
Bolron. No.
X. C. X Well, «> on,
Bolron Accordingly sir T. Gascoigne ««
erect a nunnery about the year 1677, ** !*•■•*
bank.
X. C. X What, built it ?
Bolron. He established it.
X. C. X Who were the nuns ?
989]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.- /or High Treason.
[9UO
Bolron. Mrs. Lashah wn lady abbess, Mrt.
Beck with and Mrs. Benningfield were her as-
sistants, Elling Tbwing, Elis. Butcher, and
•there, were uuns, according as I beard sir T.
Gascoigne say ; and when they went by sir T.
Gascoigne, when one Mary Root was taking
horse, sir T. Gascoigne said of her, There goes
an old maid and a young nun.
X. C. J. Whither were they going then ?
Bolron. To take possession of the nun-
aery.
X. C. J. Was it a new built house ?
Bolron. They called it a nunnery in hopes
their plot would take effect.
X. C. J. Was it an old or a new built boose ?
Bolron. Nay, I never saw it.
X. C. X Whereabouts was this home?
Bolron. It was near Ripley.
X. C. X What, was that Ripley his house?
Bolron. No, his house is at Barnbow,
X. C. J. Who did it belong to ?
Bolron. They went thither till the business
was done, and that was only till the king was
killed, and afterwards they resolved to reside at
Heworth.
X. C. /. How long staid they there ?
Bolron. They lived in this place near a year
and half.
' X. C. J. Till the plot was discovered ?
Bolron. Yes,
Justice Jones. How de you know they lived
there?
■Bolron. I have seen several times letters
£Oioe from their hands.
Justice Jones. How do you know they came
from thence?
Bolron. The letters were dated fram Dole-
bank.
X. C. J. Did he let them lie open ?
Bolron. Sometimes he did.
X. C. J. What was in them.
Bolron. I don't know any of the jfarticulars,
there was no great matter in them.
X. C. J. Who writ them ?
Bolron. The name that I saw was Pracid, or
from Mrs. Lashals.
Att. Gen. They, or some of them.
X. C. J. Tou do not know whose house it
was? — Bolron. No, my lord, not I.
X. C. J. Where is Hewortb-hall ?
Bolron. Hewortb-hall is about half a mile
off of York.
Justice Dolben. Does not that belong to one
Mr. Dawson ?
Bolron. It did, but it was bought of him.
Att. Gen. What other place did you hear
him mention?
Bolron. Brougbton, my lord, but I never
knew that any were there.
X. C. J. Nor at Hewortb-hall?
Bolron. Yes, my lord, sometimes one and
sometimes the other; some of them came
to Hewortb-hall, and some to Dolebank, but
Dolebank was the place they did generally re-
side at: And then sir Thomas did establish 90/.
a year, which was purchased of Mr. T. Mala-
vercr, and Alver Aloftus enjovs It,
X. C. J. How much was it?
Bolron. 90/. a year.
X. C. J. Where does it lie?
Bolron. It lies at a place called Mawson»
near sirT. Gascoigne's house.
X. C. J. Did he say he had sealed such a
conveyance ?
Justice Dolben. I suppose he bought it . of
Dawson.
Bolron. He booght it of Maleverer.
L. C.J. Is Maleverer a protestant?
Bolron. Yes, my lord.
L.C.J. Where is he?
Bolron. I can't tell.
Justice Jones. You did not see the convey-
ance of it yourself sealed ?
Bolron. No, I refer to their words for that.
Justice Jones. To what purpose was it
bought ?
Bolron. To establish a nunnery.
Justice Pemberton. And they told him he
should be canonized for a saint when he died,
Bolron. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Well, go on, then.
Bolron. My lord, about March last, to the
best of my remembrance, sir T. Gascoigne and
esquire Gascoigne being in their chamber, toge-
ther, I was reading a book called * The Lives of
the Saints/ and esquire Gascoigne told sir Tho-
mas that he had been before the justices of the
Seace, and they had given to him and Mr.
liddleton license to go up to London, which
mentioned, that in consideration that there was
a suit in law between James Nelthorp, esq.
and sir T. Gascoigne, therefore it permitted tba
said T. Gascoigne, esq. and his man to travel
peaceably to London. And I did hear the
other copy read of Mr. Middleton's license to.
travel in the south, and for his occasion into
the south parts was pretended to. receive some
rents there. But I aid hear esquire Gascoigne
say to sir Thomas, that he was resolved as soon
as he came to London, and had done with Mr.
Nelthorp, that he would fly into France, and
so cheat the justices, for be was resolved not
to come back to Yorkshire again, but be would
commit the design in agitation into such hand*
as would do it, and would not fail, but he would
not stay to see execution.
X. C. J. You heard him say so ?
Bolron. Yes, I did.
~ X. C.J. What said sir Thomas?
Bolron. He commended his sou's and Mr,
Middleton's resolutions.
X. C. J. What room was it in ?
Bolron. It was in sir Thomas's own chamber;
X. Q. J. Were there any rooms near it ?
Bolron. None that they could hear in, un-
less in the chamber within, I do not know whe-
ther any one was there or no.
X. C. J. Could they hear in no roam that
was near to them ?
Bolron. Yes, in the chamber within,
X. C. J. Was there no servant there?
Bolron. Not as I know.
X. C. J. My reason is, became he must speak
very loud to make his father baaj him.
091] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL \6$0.— Trial tf Sir Thomas Gascoignt, [992
Bolron. Yes, he did, for I heard him in the
chamber-window that I stood in against theraj
thev were a little wajp off me.
£. C. J. Because, if any of the servants were
near, methinks they must need* be very cau-
tions how they spoke so. load to make sir T.
Gascoigne hear*
B&lron. My lord, he was not so deaf then as
they say he is, find he seems to be now. And
esquire Gascoigne also, because he would be
sure there should no damage come to him,
caused all his goods to be sold off his ground,
and Mr. Middleton sold his very housbold-
goods.
L. C.J. He is a Papist too, is he not ?
Bolron. Yes, he is so.
X. C. J. Was not he at the meeting with sir
Miles Stapleton ?
Bolron. Yes, Mr. Middleton was one.
X. C. J. You did not name him before.
Just. Pembcrton. But he said a great many
were there besides those he named.
Just. Dolbcn. Yes. he did so. Well, go on,
Sir.
Bairoh. My lord, last SOth of May, the day
after holy Thursday, as I remember, being in
sir T. Gascoigne** own chamber, sir Thomas
bid me go into the gallery neit to the priest's
lodgings, and aftf r a little time one William
Rushton, my confessor, came to me, and asked
me, if I was at the last Pontefract sessions ? I
told him, Yes, and that 1 had taken the oath
Of Allegiance, as others had done: Where-
upon the said Rushton told me, that I and at)
the others were damned for so doing, if we kept
the same; therefore he bid me be sore to come
neit 3uftday_to have absolution from him ; for
k was a damnable sin to take that oath, and
he told me, he had potter from the pope to
absolve me; and he added, that few priest* had
thsjt power that he bid.
X. C. J. Did he make yon confess that as a
tin to him?
Bolron. No, my lord, for I did make the dis-
covery soon after.
L. C. X When was it you first turned Pro-
testant?
Boiron. f i> J one, my lord, after that.
X. C. J. Then you were not a Protestant at
that time ?
Bolron. No, my lord.
X. C. J. Were you a Papist when yon took
she oath of allegiance ?
Bsjlron. Yes, my lord, I was.
X. C. J. Why would not you, then, go and
be absolved according as your priest bid you?
Bolron. I thought I had dime nothing that
wits evil, because several had take:) oath with
me, as you shall hear afterward.
X. C. J. Well, go on.
Bolron. I told him that several others had
done it as well as I, that were papists, and they
judged it lawful* whereupon he said, away,
andtold me I was a fool, and knew not how to
judge of an oath.
X. C . So yon were satisfied the papists
might take the oath I
Bolron. My lord, I told him t thought it
no sin to take that oath, because it
Was ad oath only to be true to my king and
to my country; and I told him that Mr.
Ellis, a priest to Mr. Vavasor, had written
commentaries tfpon the oath, And jnstiSed
the taking of it. Said he again, Mt. Etfsi
was a fool, and his superiors will call him to an
account; and check him for his pains. Bet,
said he, by taking the oath you have denied
the power of the pope to absolve you from it;
but I tell you he hath power to depose the king,
and had done it : At»(J, said he, you will merit
Heaven if you will kill hhn.
X. C. J. Who spoke to yon ?
Bolron. Rushton, my lord, said it wftsa meri-
torious act to kill the king.
X. C. J. But did sir Thomas Ga^eoigne, or
any of the company, wish you to do thatthiftf ?
Bolron. Not at chat meeting ; but afterwards
sir Thomas did, my lord, if you will give me
leave to go on.
X. C. J. What did he say ?
Bolron. He told me* he would assist me in
the act.
X. C. J. Who ?
Bolron. Rushton did. And he told roe the pope .
had granted him the power, that I should nave
the benefit of absolution if I would do it. I
desired him not to persuade me to do such a
thing, for I would have no hand in it ; then he
quoted a certain place of Scripture to me, which
was, ' Thou shall bind their king* in fetters,
' and their princes in chains/ Whereupon he
conclueTed, and made this exposition, that the
pope, bad deposed the king, and absolved all
his subjects, and it wate a meritorions act to kill
the king. And that unless the king would torn
Roman Catholic, the pope wonM give away his
kingdoms to another.
X. C. J. - Well, go on.
Bolron. Then I told him t would Wave no
hand in that act and deed ; whereupon he an-
swered me again, Ydu may hang me, if jo*
f lease, for speaking these words. No, Sir, 4aid
, I will do you no injury, If you do yourself
none. So he bid me consider what be said,
sod come to htm again, but I did not.
X. C. J. This was the SOth of May ?
Bolron. Yes, and the satire day a# soow »•
I came down, I was told sir Thomas Gascoigne
had left order with his servants that I *n™j'°
not depart the house till be came fa, sod 1
stayed there till about six of the clock.
i. C. J. bid not ton live with him then r
Bolron. I lived a little way off the Hdus*.
X. C. J. How far ?
Bolron. About a quarter of a mile.
X. C. X Were you not his servant?
Bolron. No, my lord, not at that time".
Just. Jones. How long had you been gone out
of his service before ? w
Bolron. I went out of his service ibout tW
beginning of July 167*8. «
Just. Femberton. Did sir T. Gascoigne *en«
you into this gallery ?
Bolron. Yes, my lord*.
•03]
STATE TRIALS, 51 Charles II. l6S0.-t/br High Trciton.
[994
Just. Pejnbcrtm. And there yon found Ruth-
ton?
Bolron., My lord, he wis not there when I
name, but he tune as it were from chapel.
Jj. C. X You were hit servant when all the
gentlemen met at hit bouse ?
Bolron. Yet, ray lord, I was.
L. C. X When did you leave bis service, say
you?
Bolton. The 1st of July 1*79.
X. C. J. And this wae in May, 1678, wae it
not?
Bolron. No, in 1679, my lord, last May.
My lord, I watched and stayed till he came in,
and took him at he came hi. I went up stairs
with him, and when he came into his chamber
he calls roe to him, and asked roe what dis-
course had pasted between me and Rushton ?
I told him our discourse was concerning the
oath of allegiance, and the lawfulness or un-
lawfulness of it. Then sir T. Gascoigne took
ate by the hand, and told me, Well, man, if
thou wilt undertake a design that I and others
have to kill the king, I will giro thee 1,0002.
and 1 will send thee to my ton Thomas, if he
be in town ; but if he be not in town, he said
he would give me such instructions that I should
find the rest that were concerned in the bust-
X. C.J. The rest, what ?
Bolron. The rest that were in the Plot.
X. C. X That you should know where to find
them in London, you mean so ?
Bolron. Yet, my lord, if he were gone be-
yond tea.
X. C.J. What said you to him ?
Bolron. My lord, I told him h would have
no hand in blood, andf would not do such a
wicked deed, and desired Lira to persuade me
lie more. Then he desired me of all love to
keep secret what be bad said. But afterwards
I recollected that it was a very ill thing, and
went immediately to the justices of the
peaces —
X. C. X How soon did you go ?
Bolron. 8oon after.
.X. C. X To whom did yon go ?
Bolron. To Mr. Tindal, a justice of peace,
and to Mr. Normanton.
X. C. J. Did you make ao oath there ?
Bolron. Yet, that sir Thomas promised me
1,000/.
' X. C. J. And for what purpose ?
Bolron. Fur killing the king.
X. C. X Did you put that in the oath you
made ?
Bolron. Yes, my lord,
X. C. X What time was this after the dis-
course?
Bolron. It was about a week, or such a
time.
X. C. J. Was it the next day ?
Bolron. No.
X. C. X. Was it within a fortnight ?
Bolron. Yes; I believe it was* my lord.
1m C.J. Was it not * mon tb ?
Bolron. No, it wasjiot above a fortnight, tor
VOL VII.
sir T. Gascoigne was apprehended in July or
thereabouts, 1 believe, my lord.
X. C. J. But was that the first time that air
Thomas ever spake to you to kill the king, the
30th of May ?
Bolron. Yet, my lord.
Justice Jones. You say you left air Thomas's
service in July, 1678 ?
Bolron. Yes, the first day of July.
X. C. X How ? Did you leave him in good
friendship ?
- Bolron. Yet, my lord, in very good friend-
ship.
Justice Jencs. Were you in good correspond-
ence ?
Bolron. I always went to his bouse to bear
mass, and oftentimes was there.
X. C. X How came you to leave hit service?
Bolron. It was my own fault I left it.
X. C. X Why, it might be no Mult neither.
But why did you leave it?
Bolron. My lord, it was because there was
one Henry Addison and Beniiet Johnson did
seek to lake my work and service out of my
hands. Sir Thomas Gascoigne did desire me
t) let them come in and see what they could
do, and that I should hive my salary, and that
I should gather in his debts ; I was willing to
he fid of it, and told him, they that looked
after the pit should gather in the debts, for I
conceived else it would be hut a double charge
to him.
Justice Dolben. This is only how he left sir
Thomas's service ; sir Thomas thought the other
men Could do it better than he, and so> said
he, then let tbem do your whole work*
Justice Jones. But he says he did usually rev
sort to the house after he had left his service,
to hear mass.
Justice Doiben. They will ask him tout
Questions, it may he.
X. C. X Had you any estate of your ova
when you left sir Thomas's service ?
Bolron. Yes, I had a farm I rented of sir T.
Gascoigne.
X. C.J. What rent?
Bolron. l&l. and a mark a year, after I was
married.
X. C. J. When were you married ?
Bolron. In July 1675, but afterwards I was
there, and did still service.
Ait. Gen. I think you have some estate of
your owu besides that ?
Bolron. Yes, I* have 7/. a year.
Att. Gen. Well, mil you fur sir Thomas ask.
him any questions ? *
Babbington. No.
X. C. X Mr. Bolron, Pray what did the
justice say to you when you made this oath?
BUron. My lord, thus : I was resolved to
come to London, and make my confession
here, and desired I might so do; whereupon
•ne of the justices was unwilling, but at last
tbey said I might do what I would?
X. C. X You t»ay, justice Tindal it watrttorn
before, what did be lay when you made the,
oath?
3S .
905] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— TWai qfSir Thomas Gascoigne, [99*
Bolron. My lord, as I remember, lie said, be
mutt give the council an account of it, and per-
haps be should 'not bave an answer of it in a
month after; so I thought it was better to come
to London, and make a speedy dispatch of the
business ; for I did not know bat the priests in
the mean time might escape.
L. C. J. But did Mr. Ti tidal do nothing upon
that oath that was made?
Bolron. Yes, he did make out bis warrant
for the apprehending of one.
L. C. J. Did he not make out a warrant for
the apprehending of sir T. Gascoigne ?
Bolron. My lord, I think they would have
done it, but I desired I might come to the
council.
Justice Pemberton. How long after came you
there?
Bolron. As soon as I could get ready.
L. C. J. What time came you thither ?
Bolron. My lord, I set out upon Monday,
and came hither to London upon Wednesday.
2*. C. J. Do you know what month it was
in?— ^Bolron. In June it was, I think.
L. C. J. And who did you come and apply
yourself to in London, when you came there?
Bolron. My lord, I had a letter directed
from Mr. Justice Tiudal to his brother Tindal
in London, to carry me to the council. 1
chanced to lose this letter at Ware, and losing
it there, I came to the Green Dragon in Bishops-
gate street, I was acquainted with the man of
the house, and having told him some of my
business, he carried me before sir Robert Clay-
ton, and then we went to my lord of Shafts-
bury, president of the council, and presently got
an order of the council about me.
L. C. J. How long was this after Dr. Oates's
discovery? When -did Oates and Bedlow make
their discovery ?
Justice Pemberton. This was a long time af-
ter, in May last.
Justice Jones. Did Mr. Tindal take your
examination in writing?
Bolron. He took a short thing in writing.
Justice Jones. Did you set your hand to it ?
• Justice Pemberton. He resolved to go to the
council, and tell them.
Bolron. I was not willing to tell the justices
al), for I bad a mind to go to the council.
Justice Jones. But you told them the great
•matter of all, sir Thomas's proffer to give you
1,000/. to kill the king?
Bolron. Yes.
• Justice Jones. Had. you a lease of your farm
under sir T. Gascoigne *
Bolron. It was but a lease paroll.
Justice Jones. For how long?
Bolron. For 9 years.
Babbington. May I have leave to ask bim any
questions?
Court. Yes, yes, you may.
J Mr. Babbington. You say you bad a lease
of the farm, a lease paroll ?
Bolron. Yes, I had so.
Serj. Maynard. Counsel must not be allowed
in matter of fact, my lord.
L. C. J. But brother, this man hath made a
long narrative.
Serj. Maynard. Ay, and a shrewd one too.
L.C.J. His evidence is very great, and
air T. Gascoigne does not hear aov one word.
Bolron. One tiding more I would speak to.
It was in September 1678, a little before tht
discovery of the Plot, I did hear sir Thomas
Gascoigne say, and tell my lady Tempest, that
he would send 1501. to Dole bank, in hopes the
blow would be given shortly.
Sen. Maynard. That is the sacrfe word used
by all the witnesses.
X. C. J. When was this ?
Bolron. In September 1678*; the Plot was
not known by us to be discovered then, as I
know of.
L C. J. Who did he apeak it to ?
Bolron. To his daughter, the lady Tempest
L. C. J. What said she ?
Bolron. She seemed to like it very well; I
did not hear any thing to the contrary : A ad
I heard a letter read afterwards from Corowtl-
lis, that he had received it, but it was too little
for the carrying on so great a design.
L. C.J. Who isCorawallis?
Bolron. And it was for the arming the poor
catholics when the blow should be given.
L. C. J. Is his daughter living ?
Alt. Gen. Yes, she is out under bail.
Recorder. My, lord, I shall desire to ask bat
one question, which concerns the prisoner st
the bar how long after the discourse that yoo
had with the priest in the Gallery was it that sir
T. Gascoigne spoke to you of the same thiag?
Just. Pemberton. Mr. Recorder, if yoo ask
hm but one question, let it not be that which be
hath answered before; he says the same day.
Mr. Hobart. I desire to ask liiin one question.
Just. Pemberton. No, tell sir Thomas first
what he hath said, and see if he will ask bim
any questions.
Mr. Hobart. Sir Thomas, here is Mr. Boiroo
hath given evidence against you, will you ask
him any questions ?
Just. Pemberton. Read your minutes to bim.
Then Mr. Hobart repeated the first pert,
about his coming to sir T. Ga*cofgne's serrice,
and the Colliery conveyance.
Just. Jones. Ask him if be will ask any ques-
tions upon this part. Which he did.
Sir T. Oasc. No, it is no great matter at sll,
for it is true ; when it was I cannot tell, there
was something I did seal to sir William Ingleby,
and some raonev I bad of him.
Then Mr. Hobart repeated his saying to
Metcalfe, he would send 3,000/. to the priests
in 1670.
Sir T. Gase. How cornea that ? I deny that
utterly. '
Bolron. It is all true that I bave said, by toe
oath that I have taken.
Sir T. Gosc. There is no such thing at all.
Mr. Hobart. He says it was returned by »r.
Phis wick. ,
007]
STATE TRIALS, 32Chablis IL \6S0.—for High Treason.
[O0»
Sir T. Gate. Phiawick was a servant to me,
and returned some money forme sometimes,
bat it was all for my children, my sons and my
daughters, and my kinspeople, to whom I paid
annuities ; but it was a far greater sum of the
whole than 3,0001. and for one great] sum of
1,000/., you know how it was disposed of.
Mr. Hobart. He says, that in the beginning
of 1677, yon said yon had returned this 3,000/.
to London, and if you had a thousaud times as
much, you would give it for so good cause.
Sir T. Gate. I never said any inch thing,
never thought of any such thing in my life.
X. C. J. Now tell him of the meeting at
Barmbow.
tyr. Hobart. He says, in the year 1677 there
were several gentlemen met at your house at
Barmbow.
L. C. J. Name them. [Which he did.]
Mr. Hobart. These were all altogether with
yon.
Sir T. Gate. No such matter at all.
Mf. Hobart. And he »said all these persons
did discourse with you about establishing a nun-
nery at Dolebank, and another at Heworth, and
another at Broughton.
Sir T. Gate. Not one word of all this is true.
L. C. J. Tell him what he said concerning
lulling i he king.
Mr. Hobart. He says that the nunnery was
established at Dolebank, and such and such
'were nuns.
Sir T. Gate. He may say what he will, but
not one word of all this is true.
Just. Dolben. But you skip over the main
tbing, what the gentlemen resolved upon, at
that meeting. /
Mr. Hobart. He says, these gentlemen did
resolve the business should go on for the killing
of the king, and that they would venture their
lives and estates for it.
Sir T. Gate. I never heard of any such tbing
as killing the king. Sir, did 1 ever say any such
tbing?
Bolron. It was in your own dining-room, and
in your own chamber.
Just. Pemberton. He did nor say so, I think,
about their meeting.
L. C. J. Yes, be says they all met at his
house, and there they had discourse of killing
the king. In what room was it ?
Bolron, In the old dining-room.
Sir T. Gate. I deny it utterly ; there was no
inch thing : some persons might be at several
times at my house, but no such meeting, nor,
words at all at one time or other.
Then Mr. Hobart told him of Mr. Gas-
coigne's and Mr. Middleton's licences to go to
London, and intention to go to France.
Sir T. Gate. It is very true, my son did go
to London for that end.
Mr. Hobart. And so Mr. Middleton, upon
pretence of receiving rent.
Sir T. Gate. I cannot tell about Mr. Mid-
dleton. >
Mr. Hobart. He says, your sod would im-
mediately fly into France, and commit the de-
sign into other bands : and you said you ap-
proved of it : And this he heard you discourse
very plainly.
Sir T. Gate. But I plainly deny it all.
Mr. Hobart. He says yon bid him go up (the
SOth of May) to the gallery, to Mr. Rushton.
L. C. J. No, iiotto him, but when be was in
the gallery, Rushton came to him.
Then Mr. Hobart repeated the discourse with
Rushton about the Oath of Allegiance.
L. C. J. You need not tell him what Rushton
said.
Just. Dolben. Yes, my Lord, it is couvenient.
Bolron. For I told him our discourse about
the Oath of Allegiance myself.
Then Hobart repeated sir Thomas's further
discourse and proffer to him.
Sir T. Gate. There is nothing of all this true:
he might come there and talk with any body,
for what I know, but I was not with hitn.
' L, C. J. But ask him what he says to this,
that he profferred him 1,000/. to kill the king.
[Which he did.
Sir T. Gate. Where should you be paid it ?
Bolron. I would not undertake the design.
Sir T. Gate. Did you ever know I was master
of 800/. together in my life ?
Bolron. Yes.
L. C. J. Tell him he says he would not un-
dertake it, and therefore it was in vain to ap-
point where.
Sir T. Gate. I utterly deny it all, upon my
life; that is even just like the rest, I never heard
it before.
L. C. J. He puts it to you, whether ever you
saw him have 200/. together ?
Bolron. I have seen 500/. at a time in the
house, and I have seen in Phisick's hand 700/.
[Which was repeated to him.] '
Sir T. Gfuc. What Phisick might have of
other men's monies I do not know, he never
had so much money of mine.
Bolron. My Lord, sirT. Gascoigne, I believe-
had at that time at least 1,800/. a year of his
own estate. [Which was repeated to him.] '
Sir T. Gate. I wish he would make it good.
Bolron. My Lord, it is true enough : I believe
he hath settled some estate upon Ins son, about
600/. a year.
L. C. J. I can't tell what becomes of the
papists estates, nor how the priests drain them,
but there are men of very great estates among
them, but they are greatly in debt.
Mr. Hobart.* Will you ask Mr. Bolron any
questions I
Just. Jonet. You have not repeated co hire
one part of the evidence; that io September,
1678, he said to my lady Tempest, he would
send 150/. to Dolebank, in hopes the blow
would be given shortly. [Which was then re-
peated to him.]
Sir T. Gate. I know no such thing at all ;
there is not one word of all this true. ,
999) STATE TRIAL*, WCHarlu II. IMO.—THal of 3* TtomMi Gtmoigne, [|0OO
Mr. Hobart. Will you ask hUn any questions,
or no ?
Sir T. Gate. I know not what questions to
ask. hut where the money should be paid ?
L. C. J. That can be no question, for the
thing was never undertaken.
Att. Gen. Then pray, Mr. Mowbray, tell
your knowledge.
Mr. Mowbray. My Lord, and you gentlemen
of the jury, I came to sir T. Gascoigoe's in the
beginning of 1674.
L. C. J. Were you his servant ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, my Lord, but never an
hired servant.
L. C. J. In what quality did you serve him ?
Mr. Mowbray. In bis chamber, my Lord,
and continued with air Thomas antil 167*, in
which time i did observe Mr. Thomas Addison,
a priest, Fincham, a priest, Stapleton, a priest,
Killingbeck, a -priest, and Thwing, the elder
and the younger, several times to visit and con-
fer with Mr. William Kushton, sir T. Gaseoigne's
coufessor.
L. C. J. Were you a papist then ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, I was.
L. C. J. Are you one now?
Mr. Mowbray. No.
L. C. J. Well go on then.
Mr. Mowbray. I being very diligent in at-
tending Mr. Kushton at the altar, I became in
great favour with him, and was permitted to be
in the chamber when the priests were in private
with him, and I beard them often talk and dis-
course of a design laid for setting the popish
religion uppermost in England, and how like
the same was to take effect in a short time.
L. C. J. Who did speak it ?
Mr. Mowbray. The priests in private with
Mr. Kushton : I speak now, my Lord, of the
Plot in general; I come to sir T. Gascoigue
anoa.
L. C J. When ? In what year was this dis-
course?
Mr. Mowbray. In 1676.
L~C. J. Well, what said they ?
Mr. Mowbray. Why they discoursed con-
cerning the setting up the popish religion in
England, and now like the same was to take
effect, and succeed, in regard that most of the
considerable papists in England had engaged
to act for it ; and if it could not be done by
fair means, force must be used ; and particularly
declared, that London and York were to be
fired.
X. C. J. In 1676 ?
Mr. Mowbray, Yes.
L. C. J. What? Would they Afe it again ?
Mr. Mowbray. And I heard them often say
that the king in exile had promised them-
L. C. J. Did they say the city was to be
fired a second time r
Mr* Mowbray. Yes, to further their inten-
tion*).
Serj. May nurd.' It was effected in Soutb-
wark.
Mr. Mowbray. And they did also declare,
That the king, whan he was in kit exile, had
promised the Jesuits beyond tea to establish
their religion whenever be was restored; which
they now despaired of, and therefore, he was
adjudged an heretic, and was to be killed.
L. C. J. Who did say this I
Mr. Mowbray. The Priests.
L. C. J. Who was the heretic?
Mr. Mowbray. The king. Also I did hear
Ms. William Kushton* tell Addison and the rati
of the priests—
L. C. J. Do you know which of the priests
said the king was to be killed ?
Mr. Mowbray. It was Kushton : Rutkton
and Addison were together, and he did declare
to Mr. Addison, that according to agreement,
he had given the oath of secrecy and the Sacra-
ment to sir T. Gascoigue, esq. Gasooigae bis
son, my lady Tempest his daughter, Mr. Ste-
phen Tempest, and had couuminicated the
whole design to them. * ^
L. C. J. Were you by when be said this?-
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, in hi* chamber.
L. C. J. How long after the discourse ef the
priests was this ?
Mr. Mowbray. My lord, lie told them he
had done it according to agreement before;
and they did approve of it, and had severally
engaged to be active, faithful and secret, and
would do to the utmost of their powers, as Jar
as their estates would permit, to establish the
Roman Catholic religion in England) and
about Michaelmas, 1676, there was another
meeting of these priests, and others, where
they declared, That the king was an heretic*
and that the pope bad excommunicated him,
and all other heretics in Rutland, Scotland
and Ireland, and that force was to be made
use of.
Justice Dolbcn. When was that, Sir ?
Mr. Mowbray. About Michaelmas, 1676.
Justice Jones. You were his servant then ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, my lord : and then did
Kushton produce a list ol names of about 4 or
500, and he read them over, all of whom, he
said, were engaged in the design ; and he did
read the names of sir T. Gasooigne, T. Gas*
ooigne, esq. my lady Tempest, Mr. Vavasor, sir
Francii Hungntt, sir J. Savile, the two Town*
leys, Mr. Sherborne, aw I others.
L. V. J. Did you seo this list ?
Mr. Mowbray. I saw several subscript iees
to it, and amongst tlte rest I saw air T. Gas-
eoigne's own band.
L. C. J. Do you know it?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, very well.
L. C. J. And upon the oath yon have taken*
do you believe that was his hand to the list ?
' Mr. Mowbray. Yes, my lord, 1 do believe it
was his hand.
L. C /. Did you know any other bands P
Do not you know his son's hand ?
Mr. Mowbray. No, nor any but sir The.
Gaseoigne's.
JL C. J. It was in severe! banda, was it net?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, it seemed tome to be so.
L. C. J. What did they subscribe to do?
Justice Ptmbcrton. This viasin JAff ?
1WI]
STATS TJUAI3, W €a*iu* IL ie*0,-rffr ifyl Ihwvn.
[t<X»
Mrx9fo»6ray. No* it «ru about Miohaehnes,
1676.
L.C.J. What was it for ?
Mr. Mowbray. The title of it was, as I re-
member, " A List of them that are engaged in
the design of killing the king, end promoting
the Catholic KeMeioo.''
JL C. /. Was that writ en the tof ?
Justice P ember ton, They were words, 1 snp-
peee, to that effect.
. Air. Mombray. Yea, it was to that effect, my
lord.
L. C. J. Was it mentioned ia the List for
« killing the king V
Mr. Mttwbray. Yes : and then they declared
also, that the pepe had given commission to
put eo the design, and prosecute it as quick as
they could ; and that he had given a plenary
indulgence of 10,000 years for all those that
should act, either in person or estate, far killing
the king, and setting up the Romish religion ia
Enaiaud, besides a pardon and ether gratifi-
cations. And so much at to the Plot in ge-
neral. Now, my lerd, I come to the particulars
as to the prisoner at the bar, sir T. Oascoigne.
About Michaelmas, 1676, much about that
time, there was sir T. Gascoigne and his son,
my lady Tempest, and Rushton the priest to-
gether ; where I heard thera hold several dis
courses of this design about killing the king,
and firing the cities of London and York ; and
sir T. Gascoigne did declare and assure Mr.
Rushton, that he would not swerve from what
he had said, but would keep to tho path of se-
crecy be had given him, and that he would do
to tbe uttermost of his power for the kilting of
the king, and the establishment of popery.
L. C. J. Were you in the room f
Mr. Motbray. I stood dose at the door,
where I heard very well, the door was not quite
shut,
JL C. J» They did not know yon were there ?
Mr. Mowbray . No.
JL C. J. They would not trust you with it,
then I
Mr. Mowbray. They did not know I was
there. And they did unanimously conclude,
That it was a meritorious undertaking, and for
the good of the church, and they would all ven-
ture their lives and estates in it.
JL C. J. Rushton was there, was he not ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, Rushton was there; and
Dr. Stapleton* a priest, coming from another
door, and rinding me at the door, went in and
desired them to speak lower, for there was one*
at the door : whereupon my lady Tempest called
me in, and ordered me to go below and eater-
tain some strangers : so much for the parti-
culars concerning sir T. Gascoigne.
Justice Panberton. Was sir Miles Staple-
ton there at that time ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, be was there*
L. C. J. Where ?
Mr. Mowbray. In an upper room.
L.C.J. Who. were by?
Mr. Mowbray. Mr. Gascoigne, and the
priest, and my lady Tempest.
L.C/. This is ell you say r
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, so far as to the parti-
culars of this matter.
Serj. Maynurd. Have you any more to say ?
Mr Mvwbrmy. No, no more bat these parti*
cuburs, unless some questions be asked.
Theft Hobart began to repeat this evidence
to sir T. Gascoigne, how he came to be his
servant.
Sir T. Gmc. He came as a boy to me, with-
out hiring.
Then Mr. Hobart repeated the priest's dis-
course at Rusbton's.
Sir T. Ga*u I deny it ail.
h* C. /, He was not present, this was dis*
course among themselves.
Then Hobart told him about the Oath of Se-
crecy and the Sacrament.
Sir T. Gate. No, there is no such thing,
there is not a word of it true.
X. C. J. Then tell him of the List. [Which
was done.
Sir T. Gase. It is a most impudent lie.
Mr. Hobart. What say you to your hand
being to that List ?
Sir T. Gate. Not one word of it.
Mr. Hobart, But he says, it was your name
to it.
Sir T. Gasc. He bad a pair of spectacles on,
sure, that could see any thing: was it a printed
List, or a written one ?
Mr. Mowbray. It was written, your name
was put to it, with your own band-writiag.
[Which was told him.]
Sir T. Gate. He makes what he will.
Then Mr. Hobart repeated Rusbton's de-
claring that be had given him the Sacrament of
Secrecy.
Sir T. Gate. I will warrant you he hath
gotten this oath of secrecy out of tbe news-
books ; for I never heard of it before : let me
n»k thee : didst thou ever hear of it before you
came to London ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, sir Thomas, I did.
Mr. Hobart. But will you ask him any ques-
tion ?
Sir T. Gasc. No; it is all false he speaks,
not a word of truth comes out of his mouth.
Serj. Maynard. My lord, we will now go on
to another piece of our evidence.
Sir T. Gasc. I must leave it to the jury* to
take notice of their conversations and mine.
Serj. Maynard. Whereas he says he was.
never owner of 200/. together, we will produce
his own almanack under his own hand.
L. C. J. Do it, and we<wi.l t»hew it him, and
see what he says to it.
Sir T. Gasc. Why did not be discover it
before ?
Mr. Hobart, If yon? lordship please, sir
Thomas desires he may be asked, Why be did
not discover it before?
Mr. Mowbray. Because the papists did
1003] STATE TRIALS, 92 Charles II. 16m— Trial <tf Sir Thomas Gascoignc, [1004
threaten me at such a rate, and I being a
single person against them, durst not.
L. C. J. When did you first discover it ?
Mr. Mowbray. It was about Michaelmas
last : the papists did threaten me, that if I did
discover it, they would take my life away.
X. C. J. When did you turn Protestant ?
Mr. Mowbray. When the Plot broke out,
then I took the oaths of allegiance and supre-
macy.
X. C. J. Why did not you discover it as soon
as you turned Protectant ?
Mr. Mowbray. My lord, I was not in a con-
dition to make any friends, or come up to Lon-
don upon such an account : besides, my lord,
they did threaten me, and particularly after
the Plot was come out, Addison did threaten
me.
L. C. J. But this was a great while before
the Plot broke out.
Justice Dolben. So Ibng he continued a
papist, and then he would not dicover.
Mr. Mowbray. This Addison was often with
me, and he flattered me, and made me continne
a papist, lest I should discover it.
X. C. J. Where is he now ?
Mr. Mowbray. He is fled.
L. C. J. What said Addison when you did
turn Protestant?
Mr. Mowbray, He said if I did discover he
would take away my life.
X. C. J. I wonder they did not give you the
oath of secrecy.
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, my lord, I did receive it
from Rushton's own hand.
X. C.J. When?
Mowbray. In 1676.
X. C. J. Who received it with you ?
Mowbray. It was given to me after the cum-
municants were gone from the chapel.
X. C. J. What was the oath?
Mowbray. He reserved the sacrament for
me, and swore me by it, that I should be faith-
ful and secret, and should not reveal any dis-
course I was privy to.
X. C. J. Reveal no discourse ? What dis-
course did they mean ?
Mowbray. Those discourses when the priests
were in private with him.
Then sir T. Gascoigne's Almanack was pro-
duced.
Att. Gen. Who proves, sir Thomas's band ?
Is this sir T. Gascoigne's band ?
Bolron and Mowbray. Yes, it is his hand.
X. C. J. Shew it him himself. [Which was
done.]
Mr. Hobart. Is that your hand ?
Sir T. Gate. Yes, I think I saw it at the coun-
cil table ; this is my writing, and 1 will justify
•very word that is written there.
Att. Gen. Read that one place.
Clerk. The 15th to Peter tor 100/. to Corker.
Att. Gen. If your lordship please, I desire he
may be asked what that 100/. was for.
Mr. Hobart. Look you here, sir, did you
•rdex 100/. Jo be paid to Corker ?
Sir T. Ga$c. It may be I did.
Mr. Hobart. What was it for ?
Sir T. Gate. For the portion of a child- 1 had.
Mr. Hobart. What child was that ?
Sir T. Gate. I know not who it was, Mary
Appleby, I think.
Att. Gen. Pray ask him how ii came to
Corker's hands ? Why it was returned to
Corker ?
Sir T. Gate. I know not that, because we did
not know where she lived, she was beyond sea.
Mr. Hobart. Where is she ?
Sir T. Gate. She is at Paris.
Att. Gen. Here is another book of bis that
does make meation of 900/. to Mr. Corker,
upon an agreement between them.
X. C. J. Ask him "how much money be might
return to Corker from time to time. [Which
was done.]
Sir T. date. My lord, I do not know, we
have been several years returning of money.
X. C. J. Hath he returned 8 or 900/. in all ?
Sir T. Gate. No, I do not think so much,
Att. Gen. Pray ask him how much was Mrs.
Appleby's portion ?
Sir T. Gate. Indeed I cannot certainly say ;
but as the rents came in I was to pay several
sums to several persons ; it was 100/. a year to
that Mary Appleby, it may be 2,000/. in all from
first to last, but I shall satisfy you about that
Att. Gen. Will you satisfy as anon why 900/.
was paid in one year ?
Then the,, book was shewn to sir Thomas,
who owned it to be his band.
X. C. J. Read it.
Clerk." Q. Of Mr. Corker, what bills, for
how much, and to whom directed, he hath re-
ceived of me since the 21st of July, 1677, to
June 1678, vid. the book p. 45. and the great
book fol. 54. where you may find P. for 9001. aod
agree in this accompt, Corker, the 7th of August
1678."
Att. Gen. First he makes a Qoere how much
he returned, and then, says he, the 7th of
August I and Corker agreed.
X. C. J. Let him read it himself. Which
he did.
Mr. Hobart. What say you to that, that you
sent so much money to Gorker ?
Justice Pemberton. You must understand be
is one of the priests, and -Bolron sweajJ
that he intended to send 3,000/. and by SOW.
a-piece, he reckons up 900/. ^
Sir T. Gate. It was a great many years and
several times.
X. C. J. Tell him it was between Jul/ 16?*
arid June 1678.
Sir T. Gate. That does not appear.
Att. Gen. Yes, it does, by the book.
Just. Dolben. Then how came you toretur*
900/. in one year to Corker ?
Serj. Maynurd. And never bad 200/. he says
together. .
Att. Gen. Then here is another passage 10
this book, if it please your lordship » haf« *
read.
I
1005]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. IteO.— for High Treason.
[1000
Clerk. Take He worth of an easy rent of the
widow — and purchase the reversion of G rail-
dock— -and in the interim Dawson.
Just. Dolben. Ask him what he did mean by
taking of Heworth ?
Sir T. Gasc. I took no house there.
Just. Dolben. But did he agree to buy the re-
version of it ?
Sir T. Gate. It was for my niece Th wing ; she
was born in the house, and was very desirous to
be in the bouse.
Just. Dolben. Ay ; hut why did he take the
lease of the widow, during her jointure, and
why buy the reversion ?
Sir T. Gate. I know no reason hut my af-
fection to her.
Att. Gen. Ask him who he did intend should
live in the house ?
Sir T. Gate. Nay I do not know what they
intended, my niece Thwing.
Justice Dolben. Did you intend to buy it
lor yourself ?
Sir T. Gate. No, I lent her the money.
JusN Dolben. Did you intend it for her ?
Sir T. Gate. I might do with it what I would.
Alt. Gen. Ask hi no if his niece Thwing was
a tingle woman, and was to have the whole
house to herself?
Sir T. Gate. She had her brother with her.
Mr. Hobart. He says Mrs. Ellen Thwing
.was a nun, Mrs. Lassels was to be lady Abbess,
Mrs. Beck with was her assistant, and Mrs.
Cornwallis and others were nuns.
L. C. J. Ask him if Mrs, Lassels was not to
be Lady Abbess, and live there ? »
Sir T Gate. I know nothing of it.
Att. Gen. Ask him if there was not one Mrs.
fieoningfieid to be there ?
Sir T. Ghsc. No.
Bolron. Yes, she was to he there.
Just. Jones. Whv, do you know any thing of
her?
Att. Gen. She is in York gaol.
Bolron. No, she is gone from thence. My
lord, Ellen Thwing was a nun, and was sent fur
from beyond sea to instruct all them that should
be made nuns; and this Father Cornwallis was
father confessor to the nuns. He is now in
York gaol, taken with two women.
Just. Jones. Ask him what he meant by that
writing in the almanack ?
Sir T. Gasc. I did write things here for a
memorandum to help and assist my niece, and
the poor children of my brother ; and so the
widow that was sir Walter Vavasor's sister, was
to sell the house, and one Craddock meant to
sell all the lordship, and the children were de-
sirous to keep the house, and so they bought
the house and one close, and all the rest was
sold; so I writ it only that they should have
the assistance of sir Walter Vavasor to have the
house.
Just. Dolben. Pray ask him what he means
by the words, ' in the interim Dawson/
Sir T. Gate, Nay, what do I know ?
L. C J. Ask if Mrs. Thwing were not a
nun?
Sir T. Gate. They did desire, if they could
not get that house, that they might have ano-
ther bouse.
Just. Dolben. And all this for Mrs, Thwing ?
Ask him if she was not beyond sea, and kept
in a nunnery.
Sir T. Gate. Nay, I cannot tell what she
was.
Att. Gen* Here is another note in this alma-
nack, pray read it. It was first shewn to sir T.
Gascoigne, who owned it*"to be his hatod.
Clerk. " Mr. Harcourt, next bouse to the
arch within Lincoln's-Inn-Fields, Mr. Parr's."
L. C. J. No question but he was acquainted
with all the priests about the town, and had di-
rections to write to them.
Just. Pemberton. He hath been priest-ridden
by them, that is plain.
Recorder. Ask him what he means by the
last mark there set under London ?
Sir T. Gate. I cannot tell what it is, it is a
query.
Att. Gen. In the almanack there is a
memorandum to acquaint Mr. Thwing with the
whole design ; what it was I cannot tell.
L. C. J. Ay, pray let us see that.
Att. Gen. This Thwing is a priest in New-
gate at this time.
Clerk. "The 15th of April 1676. Memorand.
Acquaint Mr. Thomas Thwing with the whole
design."
JL C. J. Now shew him that.
Sir T. Gasc. Look you, what is it you would
have?
Mr. Hobart. What design was that?
Sir T. Gasc. It was my providing monies for
him and his sister, that they should tell how to
purchase the house.
Att. Gen, What, a priest, and a nun ?
Just. Dolben. They had vowed contrary to
that.
Just. Pemleiton. Ask him whether Thwing
be not a priest?
Mr. Hobart. Is not this Thwing a priest?
Thomas Thwing?
Sir T. Gasc. No, it was Ferdinando Thwing,
that is now dead.
Att. Gen. No, but this is Thomas Thwing :
Is he a priest ?
Sir T. Gate. I do not know. What have I
to do?
L. C. J. Then consider how likely it was ;
he was to purchase an house for a priest and a
nan, for some such business as is sworn.
Mr. Hobart. He says no, my lord.
L. C. J. What is the meaning of it, then,
that lie should name the whole design ?
Mr. Hobart. He say.*, it was the brothers and
sisters that lived next door to him.
L. C. J. Ay, but it is said, acquaint Thomas
Thwing with the whole design.
Mr. Hobart. He might acquaint Thomas
Thwing with such bis intention.
Att. Gen. We will now shew your lordship
a letter, taken among the papers of sir Thomas
Gascoigne, wherein is this proviso, talking of
the settlement, " In the formal settlement, let
_ 6
1007] STATE TRIALS, SSChailis II. \6tO.—TYurt qf Sir nomas Gmcoignc, [\m
this proviso be added, If England were con-
verted, then to be disposed so and so."
L. C. J. Mr. Bolron, How came you by that
paper?
Bolron. I took' this paper in sir T. Gat-
coigne's chamber, with several others: I re-
saember some had bis hand to them, others had
not, and some were signed Pracid, and some
Cornwallis.
L. C. J. Is there any mark of his hand to
that paper?
Alt. Gen. Yes, there is a mark in this of sir
Thomas's «wd hand, the word (Yes) in the
margin.
Clerk. « Dolebanbi Juno 0th, 1676. Most
1 honoured Sir, After most grateful acknowledg-
4 ments of all your charitable favours, as to my
' own particular; I am also herewith to pr*-
4 sent most humble and heartiest thanks on be-
4 half of your niece, and Mrs. Hastings here,
4 who both would esteem it a great happiness to
4 see you here, as also my lady, your honoured
' daughter, to whom we beseech our humble
' respects may be presented. I have sent the
4 paper safely to good Mrs>Beddingfield, from
' whom shortly you will have religions acknow-
4 lodgments. I told her that I supposed you
' would judge fitting to insert into the formal
4 writing the proviso, vis. That if England be
* converted, then the whole VOL per annum is
* to be applied here in Yorkshire, about or at
4 He worth, &c. The which doubtless, will be
4 as acceptable unto her, and as much' to God's
* glory as possibly can be imagined. Now,
* dearevt Sir, let me not be too much trooble-
* eome, save only to wish y«u from his- divine
4 majesty, for whose everlasting glories greater
4 praise and honour you do this most pious
4 action, the happy enjoyment of that glory
4 everlasting. I would lastly advise you in
- ' God's holy name, to complete the business by
4 otawing the formal writing a* soon as possible ;
\ ' and without making any material al-
Y {* teration from what you have already
( ' signed, save only the proviso above
J ' written. I should be glad to kno.v
concerning the receipt hereof, and when sir
Miles and your eon are likely to attend you
to finish the business: As also when Mr. Pier-
pemt sbaH be arrived. These good religious
are very desirous with your approbation (and
Mrs. Bcddingfierd at my coming from her
wished the same) to' try for a removal to Mr.
Dawson's ; the impediments here being essen-
tial, as the house incapable to receive more
scholars, with many other inconveuiencieealso.
Time permits ub more, only we again express
our earnest desires to see your honour here with
my lady, as the greatest satisfaction we can
desire : I remember you hinted to Mrs. Bed-
dingfield not long since, that perhaps you
might see her at Hammersmith; and how
much easier you may come hither, we earnest-
ly beseech you to take into consideration to
the purpose. Moat honoured Sir, your ho*
bout's mast obliged faithful servant, Jo.
PfiACt*.'
L. C. J. I think it it pretty plain there was
a design of erecting a nunnery.
Serj. Maynard. If England is converted, the*
the *bole 90l. a year to be employed in York-
shire about a rotten house, which would be
much for God's glory.
' JLC.J. What other evidence have voa }
Recorder^, If your lordship plftase, we have
another letter dated from York Castle, and tbs
backside of the letter is indorsed by sir The.
Gascoigne's own hand, the time when he re-
ceived it.
L. C. J. When was it ?
Recorder. The last May, he dates it from
York Cattle, where he was in prison, and there-
in gives sir Thomas an account of the opinion
of the doctors of Sorbonne about the taking tbs
oath of allegiance.
I. C. J. No doubt all of them do not ap-
prove of it.
Just. Dolben. At I believe this same Pracid
was the occasion of so many gentlemen re-
fusing the oath of allegiance; I convicted above
forty of them in that country for not taking
of it.
Serj. Mtynard. 4 Noscitor es cemite.' You
see if this be the effect of it, what reason we
have to rid ourselves of these priests: One that
dares write such a letter ; and it is feuad in sir
Thomas's study.
Just. Pemberton. And sir Thomas's vwn head
on the back of it.
Serj. Mayrmrd. My lord, under favour, I <k>
Oike it, that the debauching of men in the point
of conscience, that they may not take the oath
of allegiance, is to set them loose from the
government, and loose from the king, and
make them ready to arm when tbey have op-
portunity.
Just. Pemberton. No doubt of it, brother.
L. C. /. All the Jesuits say they may not
take it, but some of the Sorbonnists say they
may.
just. Pemberton. But now you see they are
against it.
L. C. J. Some will, and tome will not allow
Just. Jonee. .Tbey take or leave oaths, as it is
convenient for them.
Then the letter being shewn to Mr. Mow-
bray, and the indorsement acknowledged to be
sir Thomas'* band, was read.
Clerk. « York Castle, May the 24th. He-
4 noured and ever dearest sir ; Longer tune
' having passed since your last writing, it » ■*
4 to inform you how God's holy providence
* disposes concerning us. All the out prisoner!
' being called into the castle, (as you may have
< heard) Mrs. Hastings* room was needed, and
4 so she went into Castiegate to reside at lie
< former lodging of one Mrs. Wait, (» ho is now
< in the gaol) where she remains with Mrs.
4 Wait's two eliildren, and their maid-servant,
' teaching the children as formerly; also the
< Moor's niece goes daily thither; and Mrs.
4 Hastings lives without charge as to diet aim
$00*]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charl£* II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1010
lodging, as I formerly told you; she spends all
her time well, God be praised, and comes every
morning about seven o'clock to serve God at
the castle : Bat I and two others are much
abridged of that happiness by her room being
left by her here. My liberty of going abroad
is restrained with the rest, none being as yet
permitted the least since these lost were forced
.to come in. Madam — - was here the other
day, and seemed somewhat timorous about
Mrs. Basting's teaching : But most in the
castle persuaded her that it was most com-
mendable and most secure, and so she rests
satisfied : Mrs. Cornwallis is recovered of her
ague, God be blessed : She desires ber duti-
ful respects may be always presented unto
ydu, and intends^ herself to write to you. Mrs.
Wood and her companion are well, but dare
not as yet walk in their own garden. All our
now prisoners are cheerful, and each of us
comforted, in hopes that God will make all
catholics of one mind: For I have a letter
from our Spr. [Mr. Record. That is superior]
at London (who was the same day taken and
carried to prison), wherein he declares, alledg-
ing authority, That the pretended oath of
allegiance cannot be taken as it is worded ;
adding that three briefs have formerly been
jent from the pope expressly prohibiting it ;
and in the third it is declared damnable to
take it. And yesterday we bad a letter com-
municated amongst us, sent by Mr. Middle-
ton (now at Paris) to his friends here, contain*
ing the attestation of- all theSorbonne doctors
against it ; adding, that whosoever here in
England give leave,^ they deceive people,
and are contrary to the whole Catholic Church.
There was also a meeting some years ago of
all the superiors both secular and regular,
wherein it was unanimously declared, that
it could not be taken. Mr. Hutchinson (alias
Berry) who has lately printed a pamplilet
in defence of the oaths, has the other, day de-
clared himself protestant at St. Margaret's
Westminster. And so I rest, Honoured sir,
Your ever obliged, J. P.'
Recorder* That is all, the other is private.
Att. Gen. If your lordship please, we shall
now prove by some witnesses, that he hath re-
turned great sums of money, because he said,
be never bad 800/. together ; and for this we
call Mr. Phiswick. (Who was sworn.) Come sir,
were you a servant to sir T. Gascoigne?
Mr. Phiswick. Yes.
Att. Gen. For how long time ?
Phiswick. For six years arid upwards.
Ait. Gen. In that six years time, what sums
of money did you return to London r
Phiswick. It is abstracted in a note.
Att. Gen. Did you return all the sums in
that note?
Phiswick. I refer myself to ray almanack.
Att. Gen. Diet you set down this account ?
Phiswick. Yes, sir.
Att. Gen. Then thus, sir, pray what comes
it to?
Phiswick. Those sums do come to 0,128/.
vou vh.
X. C. J. Whose money was that ?
Phiswick. Part of it was sir Thomas's; part
his son's, and part my lady Tempest's.
L. C. J. Can you tell how much in any one
year you returned upon the account of sir Tho-
mas?
Phiswick. Not unless I had my almanack.
L. C. J. It will be endless to look over the
particulars.
Just Pemberton. Can you make any estimate
in six years how much you returned for sir Tho-
mas himself?
Phiswick. No, not without my almanack,
because I returned money for them all.
Att: Gen. My lady Tempest and Mr. Gas-
coigne, it hath been proved, were in all the dis-
courses.
L. C. J. But that hath not any influence"
upon s^ Thomas.
Phiswick. The esquire lived much in London,
Just. Dolben. What estate had he to live
upon?
Phiswick. Betwixt 4 and 500/. a year.
Just. Pemberton. What estate had sir Tho-
mas besides ?
Mowbray. My lord, I believe it was 1,600/. a
year, besides what Mr. Gascoigne had.
Just. Dolben. And what had my lady Tem-
pest?
Phiswick. Three hundred pouod a year.
Just. Dolben. But she lived in Yorkshire.
Phiswick. Yes.
Just. Dolben. So she needed little returns to
London.
Just. Pemberton. But admit they had return-
ed all, there was 300/. a year to be returned for
sir Thomas.
Att. Gen. My lord, here is Mr. Mawso»
I think 2,500/. was received by him.
Phiswick. I paid in the country, at Leeds,
money, that be paid here in town.
Att. Gen. Here is the 35/. paid to Harcourt,
I would ask him whether it were the same Har-
court that was executed.
Just. Pemberton. I think not that material.
Att. Gen. My lord, if you please, we will
shew you the examination taken before the
council, that sir Thomas did own this Bolroa
had been hi» servant, and never uofaithful, but
always took him to be, as he now found him, a
fool.
Just. Dolben. If he object any thing, it will
come in properly by way of reply;
Att. Gen. Then now we have done till we
hear what the prisoner says to it.
X. C. J. Tell him they have done with their
evidence against him ; if he will have any wit-
nesses examined, he must call tberu.
Hobart. The king's evidence have been alt
heard, and said as much as they can ; the court
asks you if you would call any witnesses, or say
any thing for yourself? Have you any witnesses)
here?
Sir T. Gate. Yes.
Hobart. Name tnem, Sir.
Justice Dolben. Ask what he will have done
with them?
ST
101 1] STATE TiUALSi 32 ChajIles IL I6S0W Trial of Sir Thonm Gmcoigne, [tOIS
Justice Jones. Let him- tell as to what pur-
pose he will call thorn.
Sir T. Gate, To examine them to the credit
itfi'l demeuii »ur of Utewp men, and that therd is
no pro liability in their suggestions.
Hobtirt. Name them, Sir.
Sir T, Gate. They are all in that note.
Mr. Babbington was first examined.
JiMttce Pemberton. Ask sir Thomas what he
would have him asked.
Sir T. Gasr. Look you, sir, what, do you
know concerning the difference between Mr.
Bolron arid I ?
X. C. J. Well,, what say you to that ques-
tion ?
Babbington. My lord, I have not been em-
ployed in sir T. Gascoigne's business before
the last winter. ,
Justice Dvlben. What do you know .then ?
Babbington. About spring last sir T. Ges-
coigne was consulting with me about money
Bolron owed him upon two bonds, and gave- me
directions to sue- them. And likewise he was
giving me directions to deliver declarations in
ejectment for gaining the* possession of bis farm,
because he did not pay mgrenU ■
X. C. X liow much were the bond* for?
Babbington. A have them here, I think.
X. C. J; You need not) look lor them, you
may toll us- Hie sums*
babbington. The one is for 98?. r theother
20/., to the best of my • reusembvauee. Mr.
Bolron having notice of this, did desire be-
would accept of a- conveyance of an. house-he
bad at Newcastle for satisfaction of his debt.
Sir Thomas was unwilling to accept of it, but
I did prevail with him to accept it, not in
satisfaction,- but as an additional security; -and
the deeds I have here that I drew for, that
end.
Justice Pemberton* What time was this?
Babbington. This was a little' before last Tri-
nity-term begun. 1 have' taken a memoie*dee»<
within a day or two, if your lordship will give
me leave to look upon it.
Justice Dolben. Have you not had' all this
time to get your papers- ready ?
Babbington. My memory ier very short, iw*»
deed. But now I see about the 3d or 4th of
June, sir Thomas gave me orders to deliver
declarations in ejectment.
Justice Dolben, When did he first bid you
question him for monies upon the beads?
Babbington. It was some time in May.
X. C J. Did he tell yon you must sue htm ?
Babbington* Yes.
X. C. J. What then did Bolron say?
Babbington. Bolron did then desire that sir
Thomas would accept of security out of his-
house at Newcastle. Sir Thomas was very
bard to be persuaded, but at length I did pre-
vail with him, and I used this argument, that
it was not to lend so much* money upon that
security, but his money was already out of ms
hands, and else desperate, and this was a farther
security, and that it would not lessen his? other
security, and upon these persuasions he did let
me draw a dee?1 to that purpose.
X. C. J. Was this some* tune in- Mow?
Bobbin a ton. This discourse waa in May-
X. C. J. Ate you sure of it?
Babbington* The directions that I had for
drawing the deed wee in June, but the die*
course with sir Thomas was in May, and I do
J Perfectly remember itby&circumstence which
[ shall tell your lordship. After the deeds were
drawn (for drawing of which I had abetter under
Bolron 's own hand, and if occasion be* I have
the letter here te produce)^ I came from York*
having, been there, aad appointed a day for the
sealing of them. I came to the house where *
Bolron lived, and sir Thomas met me* and
there I produced the* deeds, and he of himself
was very ready and willinexo the sealing of then,
but his wife, who was joined in the deeds wids
him, would uotby any means seal, unless sir
Thomas, would deliver up ^ the bonds he had*
taken- for the money, butsir Thames did* utterly
refuse to deliver up the' bends*
X. C. X What time in Jane wastbie?
Babbington. A little before Whitauatidav
L.C.J. Whet time was that ?
Bafitington. That wee the ietbof Jen* aail
remember, chat I delivered tfae declaration;
and the day before, which wee that 13dv to the •
best of my remembrance, I batttUsacommuiuV *
cation and- discourse a bout seating; the wjstimjs}
which) the wise refused to jout'iw; buS-siDTboe '
mas • weald only take it as an additional seen*
riiy, refusing te deliver up. the bendsy but be -
would suspend further prosecute**, and Baton
did then desire no longer time than a month
for payment of taw money. But hie wife*
though- she were oread to* s*al*the~ writings,
would net be peiauaded, but utterrr denied in,
After we bad- spent a- great deal of time there,
Bolron comes to* me, and. desires me* to come
another time* and he would pewueeVhis' wile
to seal- the deed, Nay, said> I, it is not fit for *
me te come up aad down unless* it be to some *
purpose, and your wife will real. Wutlawy,
says he, I will force her to it. My answer waa *
this, If you take these courses* Mr, Bolron, I
must by no means be concerned in the- master;
for your wife must pees a* fine, and we metr
examine her secretly, and if she teus me she
does it by your force, I witt not pan* it if you
would givel,000f. After this, about a fortuigmV
he sent for me to come and his wife would
seal.
X. C.J. Bytbeway^awyooaprosestant?
Babbinwton. Yee, I am, Sir.
JL C( J. And always was?
Babbington. Yes*
Alt. Gen. Yes, be is an attorney at large, I
know him very well-.
Babbington. This was a fortnight or three •
weeks after that, the latter em^of June be sent
for me to his house, and that hit wife wouM be
contented to seal. And this be desired might
be dene on the Tuesday, wtuclt wee Leeds
market-day, and I could not go. The next day
I called upon him at Shippen-HaU ; he was
•STATE TRIALS, §2 CifAftfcfis II, \WiO.~- for High Treason.
tinjn within,- nnd desired me 'to go no to Barm-
'bowto sir Thomas G«iscoigne*s with him : He
-wnd heshouM go within two or three days to
Newcastle, 'for he had* -chapman that would
lay down the 'money, nod irake 'the security of
tWeJhoose, and l»e desired -he might have the K-
■ berty to go thither -to treat about it . I mid him
-I did believe k woutd be no hard matter to
^persuade -sir Thomas to that, for he would be
*ery glad of it. I went up with him to Barm-
4>ow, and as we went along, he n*ked me if sir
Thomas did intend to sue him npnn his bond ?
4. told him I had directions so to do. He asked
me likewise if he would turn him ont of bis
farm ? I told him, Yes, if he would not pay bis
Vent; and the troth of it is, be did then deny
be had received the declaration in ejectment :
Bat- my man afterwards made his affidavit of
delfory, and had judgment upon it. After-'
•wards I went up to -sir Thomas, and told him
4rhat Bolron -desired, and be consented to it as
readily as it could be asked; and iu coming
away he told Bolron, that in the management
:of -his coal-pits he did neglect very mnch, and
•did'go abroad, staying away two or three days
together. To -this <Bohron made some excuse,
«tra said ft -was for collecting bis debts. Said
sir Thomas, I Vfiow not what yon are about,
but if you do well for yourself, I am satisfied.
X. C. J. How long had he been from him,
and left bis service, then ?
Babbington. I know not when he went, but
this wait in June mat. A feer this we went back
«gain, and in coming back he was very inquisi-
tive to the -same purpose; 'he was asking me —
*L.'C J. You say fie chid him, and toM him
4re<*ms not a good husband in bis colliery.
Ba&bimgton. Yes ; and as we came back he
avas >tnqui«itive whether sir T. Gascoigne would
ene.biro, end turn bim out of his farm. I did
•hen enter into the same expressions, and told
him, if he did not pay, be must be sued.
i.C J. You told me, sir Thomas had agreed
-to-fitay co long, when was this?
Bebhinglvn. My lord, this was after we had
parrel) with sir Thomas.
'L. C J. After sir Thomas had promised him
to stay so long time, then, said he, as you were
coming home, do you think he will sue me, and
turn me out of my farm-?
Babbington. Yes, said I : Well, said be, tlien
by God 1 will do that which I did not intend to
do. What he meant by it I cannot tell; but
tins was a little before he came to London,
which I judge to be the latter end of June;
and this is all I have - to saw
Then Obadiah Moor was called.
ffost. ffont$. Did you tell sir T. Gascoigne
what he said, Then 1 will do what I never did
intend to do1?
Bribing. I did never tell him, my lord, fori
looked upon it «* an idle expression. And I
will tell your lordship why ; because this man
that is^nawtr>be -examined did tell me how that
be was bound for him, and that Bolron, to en*
courage him to *» bound, said, You need not
[1014
ftaV, for if sir Thomas sues me, I will inform
against him for keeping priests in his house ;
and I did look upon it*as nu idle expression.
Mr. Moor. My lord, in September lust was
twelve-month, Mr. Bolron did desire rue to be
bound with him to sir T. Gascoigne. Said I, I
told him, Mr. Bolron, I have some small ac-
quaintance with you but J have no reason to
be bound with you. £oiri he, Do not fear;
there is my brother Baker and Stephen Thomp-
son are to be bound as welt as you. Said he,
I will give yoa my counter security. That sig-
nifies nothing, said I. \ ou need not fear any
suits, said he; for if sir Thomas out* uie, i wiil
inform against him for keeping priests. Said I,
When must tins money be paid? Said he,
At Candlemas next. So we went and were
bound ; the one bond was to be paid at Can-
dlemas last, and the other in August. Aud
after Candlemas 'he did not pay the money ;
and 'said 1, Mr. Bolron, I' dn not like these
bonds, you must make new 'bonds for my secu-
rity. I was afraid of being sued, and 1 desired
Mr. Babbington to bring a writ against him,
which he did ; and upon Holy-Thursday I had
two bailing ready to arrest "him, but be could
not be found ; and I had two likewise the Sa-
turday before at 'his pits. Presently alter be
came up to London, and made an information ;
and on the 8th of August last I met him in
Ferry- Bridge, and be came along with me; said
he, Mr. Moor, you and I nave often discoursed .,
of sir T. Gascoigne, you may do me good, if
yon do not, pray do me no bann. You have
been often at his house. With that, I asked
him if be was concerned in the plot? For, said
f, yon have been often telling me, and sworn it,
and denied it utterly, that he was no more con-
cerned than any body eke. But I did but equi-
vocate then, said he, for I was a papist, and if
I had told 1,000 lies, or killed 20 prou-stanta,
our priest would have forgiven me for it. And
so coming to Farnborn, two miles from Ferry -
Bridge, he plucked out 10f., and said, 1 hat*
no more money in my pocket but tint, hut pray
be kind, and do me no harm, for you know £
have denied it all along.
Just. Jones. Hath he done so?
Moor. Yes, several time*.
L. -C. J. How came you to discourse with
him. and qoestion him about it?
Moor. Because there was a general discourse
in the country, that there were few papists but
what were concerned, and guilty of the Plot.
L. C. J. When was that discourse?
Moor. The latter end of September was
twerve-raonth, when the Plot was first dis-
covered. And he said, sir Thomas was no
more concerned than the child that was to ba
born.
%L.'C.J. Hari<yoti any discourse with him
about May last ?
Moor. No, my lord; in August, as I told
you, I had.
L.'C. J. When was the last time that ha -
told you. sir Thomas had not an hand in tha
Hot*
1015] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaules II. 1680.— Trial of Sir Thomat Gescoignt, (1010
Moor. I cannot certainly remember, bat I
think it was in February, when I told him I
would sue the bond, or nave better security.
It was a small time after Candlemas.
Just. Jones. What are you, a protectant or a
papist ?
Moor. A protectant, bred and born so.
Just. Pemberton. He would have sworn it no
doubt at that time, for he was under an oath of
secrecy.
L. C. J. But yon say August was the first
time that he discoursed to you that sir Thomas
was in the Plot?
Moor. Yes,
Then Stephen Thompson was called.
Just. Dolben. Well, what do you know of
this business ?
Thompson. My lord, if you will give roe leave
to speak, I know a great deal of the unkindness
betwixt sir Thomas aud Mr. Bolron. He came
down to me, he was sir T. Gascoigoe's steward
of his colliery, and sir Thomas liked not of
his accounts, and turned him forth. There
was a great deal of money owing to sir Tho-
mas, and lie came to sir Thomas to agree
about it, and he desired me to be bound with
him to sir Thomas: said I, Mr. Bolron,
how shall I be secured ? Said he, there is a
great deal of money, of which I never gave sir
Thomas any account, I will gather it in, and se-
cure all ; and so *>ir T. Gascoigne knew nothing
of it. So bonds for 60/. were entered into to
pay 28/. at Caudlemas. So, sir, when Candle-
mas came, aud he did not pay the money, I
went up to him and asked him what he would
do about this money, what course he would
take to satisfy ? Oh f never fear, said he. Why
said I, hath he any hand in the Plot? If be hath
let us know it; for he had made a great deal
of his goods away, and then I thought I should
not be secured. Oh, said he, he is siuless of it.
L. C. J. Who did make away his goods ?
Mr. Thompson. Bolron did.
L. C. J. When was this ?
Mr. Thompson. Candlemas fast. For then I
thought sir Thomas might sue me for the money,
and I would ^ain have known if sir Thomas had
any hand in the Plot, aud I pressed him much
to tell me. Then it passed on, and having a writ
out against me, I durst not stir out myself, but I
did send my man to him to know what he did in-
tend to do about it : he told my man, Brother tell
tby master he need not fear at all. Why, said my
man, do you know be hath uny hand in the
Plot?
Just. Dolben. That is but what your man
said.
Just. Pemberton. Is your man here ?
Mr. Thompson. No.
Just. Dottcn. Therefore you must not urge
that he said to you, it is nn evidence.
Thompson. On Thursday after I went up to
him myself, and got him to go up to sir Tho-
mas; and so when he came to sir Thomas, he
would give him no time but a fortnight to pay
tlic money; Bolron desired but three weeks
time, and be would procure mm his money ;
so away we came down. Said I, What do you
intend to do in this case ? Said he, If be do sue
me, I will do him an ill turn ; and soon after
he went to London, and said, he would go to
sell his land at Newcastle : and awhile after J
went out to see if he were come again ; and
meeting him, it was when he was going to Lon-
don again to carry on his design, said I, Robert
Bolron, what do you say in this case ? yon now
are going to leave the country, and bow shall I
be secured against sir Thomas ? Do not ques-
tion it, said be, for I am to receive on the lung's
account SO/.
L. C. J. Upon whose account ?
Thompson. Upon the king's ; concerning the
taking sir T. Gascoigne.
Bolron. But I never bad a farthing of it.
Thompson. But, said he, I will not take it,
for another bids me 60/. and I know what
Oates and Bedlow had, and I won't abate a
farthing of that.
L. C. J. When was this ?
Thompson, It was after he had taken him ;
and on Holy Thursday be did say, If he didioe
him, he would do him an ill turn.
Then the Lord Chief Justice, being to sic at
Nisi Prius at Guildhall, went off.
William Backhouse was next called.
Just. Jones. Let bim ask Backhouse what be
will.
Sir T. Gasc. I would ask him what threats he
gave to his wife to swear against her conscience
and promise of 500/. he should gain by it.
Backhouse. I served the warrant to carry the
witness before 'squire Lowther and 'squire
Tindall : I was charged the 7th of July last to
help fetch the witnesses before the justices, and
to take sir T. Gascoigne, Land two of my sons,
and he opened the door his own self. When
we had taken him, 'squire Lowther directed as
to bring the witnesses before him, and we did
so. When we came to Bolron's house, bis wife
was sick on bed, and I said that she must go
before the Justice of Peace to swear against
sir T. Gascoigne for High-Treason : she said
she knew nothiug against sir Thomas ; bus Bol-
ron said she must go, or he would have her
drawn at the cart's arse.
Then Hamtworth was called.
Justice Jones. What will be ask him ?
Sir T. Gasc. I ask him about the threatniog
of his wife.
Humsworth. May it please you, my lord,
the same day that sir Tho. Gascoigne was taken
Robert Bolron came to his wife, and told her
she must go to 'squire Lowther to swear against
sir T. Gascoigne : she fell a weeping, and would
not go by no means ; he threatened if she would
not go, he would tie her to the horse's tail.
Just. Dolben. Did he tell her what she should
swear?
Hamsworth. I did not hear bim, only to swear
against sir Thomas.
Just. Dolben. What she knew, was it ?
1017]
STATE TRIALS, 52 Chabibs IL \6*0.^for High Treason,
[1018
Hamswortk. Yes ; and she said, she did not
know any thing of misdemeanour of sir T. Gas-
coigne touching his sacred majesty, or the
church government.
Justice Jones. Art thoa sare she said those
words ?
Mmbray. Mv lord, he is a papist.
Hamsworth. I am a Protestant.
Justice Pemberton. How long hare you been
■ Protestant?
Hamsworth. I was born so.
Just. Jones. Weil thou hast added a few fine
words that 1 dare say she never said.
Jusr. Pemberton. Were you never a papist?
Hamsworth. Yes, I was.
Nicholas Shippon was called.
Mowbray. This man is a papist too.
Just. Dolben. Do you think he is not a wit-
ness, for all that ?
Sir T. Gate. What discourse he had May
30, the day after the race ?
Just. Pemberton. Well ask him what you will :
What do you say ?
Shippon. Mr. Bolron was with me the 30th
day of May.
Just. Dolben. What, May last ?
Shippon* Yes, the day after Ascension-day :
he came to my house about two o'clock in the
afternoon, and staid at my house all that after-
noon while an hoar after sun-set before he went
away ; he caroeand brought a letter with him
co carry to Newcastle, and it was sent away
thither.
Just. Dolben. Are you sure it was the day
after the Ascension-day ? How if it should fall
out auother day ?
Shippon. Yes, Ascension-day was the 29th of
May ; he- came to me about two o'clock.
Serj. May nurd. Pray what reason had you
to take notice of this?
Shippon. He came and brought a letter to
me that was to go to Newcastle, and desired me
that my little boy might carry it to a kinsman's
house of mine ; for he said, be was afraid of the
bailiff, and did not care for stirring out; my
wife brought him some meat and drink, and he
said it was better than he had at home; and she
said she was the more sorry things were no bet-
ter with him.
Just. Dolben. But how came you to take
notice that this fell out the 30th of May ?
Shippon. The night before I met him coming
from the race, which was the 29th of May, and
he asked me if, I saw any bailiffs waiting for
him : arid 1 said yes ; and he said, it was well
if he missed them; and he asked me, if I saw
Benoet Johnson ?
Just. Jones. How long was it you say he staid ?
Shippon. He came about two o'clock, and
staid oil an hour and half after sun-set.
Serj. Maynard. What religion are yon of,
friend, let us know?
Just. Dolben. What say you to the truth of
this, Bolron ?
Bolron. My Lord, there is not a word of it
true ; for I was about two o'clock at sir Tho.
Gascoigne's ; they were marking some sheep,
and I was there most of the afternoon.
Just. Jones. Were you- ever at his house at
any other time to send an v such letter ?
Mr. Bolron. 1 never sent auy such letter t
Indeed that day I was a little of the afternoon
at his house, but I jtaid there but half an hour;
but I was most part of the afternoon at sir
Tiio. Gascoigne's seeing them mark sheep.
Then Roger Gregson was called.
Just. Jones. What do you say to him ?
Sir T. Gate.. Let him speak hi* knowledge.
Serj. Maynard. 1 desire he may ask the ques-
tion, for he only generally refers to them what
they know..
Sir T. Gasc. What did he say to you about
August last ?
Gregson. My lord, I will tell you: We met
about August last, Robert Bolron and I, about
a week before Bartholomew-day : we had some
discourse ; he came from London a little be-
fore that, and I asked him how sir T. Gascoigne
did.
Just. Dolben. Was he apprehended in Au-
gust last ?
Gregson. Yes, he was in the Tower. He
said, well. I asked him how he would come
off about the plot (as they call it) ? said Le, ho
may come off well enough, but n will cost him
a great deal of money. I then did ask, how
they came to fall out ? and he in id it was long
of that rogue Addison, brother to the priest,
who had called him to account, or else he never
had done sir Thomas that injury ; and I sup-
pose that was the cause of it. And then we
had some more discourse, and that discourse
was this: he rides a little from me (he was on
horseback) and came back again ; said he, I
can tell you, the king was at Windsor, and one
of the privy-couucil made an attempt to stab
the king, and the king made his escape, and
now they will believe my informations the
better.
Just. Pemberton. Go on.
Gregson. That is all I have to say.
Just. Jones. What are you, a Papist ?
Gregson. No, I am no Papist, 1 deny it*
Serj. Maynard. Nor never was?
Gregson. Nor never was.
Then James Barlow was called.
Serj. Maynard. My lord, I conceive this
man ought not to be heard, for he is Under ah
accusation of the same crime ; and we have bad
two orders of council to apprehend him.
Att. Gen. There was an order of council
within this fortnight to send for him up in cus-
tody.
Just. Dolben. There is nothing upon record
against him, and you may discredit his testi-
mony, but you cannot refuse him ; he is not to
coma upon his oath.
Mr. Sol. Gen. (Sir Francis Winnington.)
Bolron swears too, that be was at the consult-
ation.
Just. Dolben. Let us hear him what be sayi ;
we must leave it to the jury what to believe.
aOlOJ STATE TRIALS, S2 Chavlbs IL lA90~Jbial<QfJSir Thmas >Gasc<xignc, [1030
fiesj. jlfcjnsord. They would question him
about Mr. Bolton's cozening, .which ought not
4o be. •
Sol. Gen. This roan hath*sworn against him.
• Mr. Hobart. Why did you not indict him,
Sir?
8efj„ May nard. .6ir, you ought not to -prate
here.
Just. Dolben. Come, I doubt you ace .a
little too pragmatical.
Just. Jones. If you had any record of the
indictment to shew against him, we would not
examine him.
Mr. Hobart. Will you aik him any ques-
tions, sir ?
Sir T. Gasc. You know, sir
Serj. Maynard. That is not proper, he tells
him what he knows.
Just. Pemberton. Look you, sir, we did not
intend that you should come here to manage all
as a counsel ; it was said, he could not hear
well, and so you were only to tellliim what was ,
said.
Sir Tho. Gasc. I would ask him what he
does know concerning taking of money and
stealing from me ?
Just. Dolben. Bnt that must not be asked.
[Which Hobart told him.]
Sir Tho. Gasc. Then you must tell me what
I must ask.
Just. Pemberton. Come, you have been prag-
matical, sir, and made him a brief, and be can-
Hot manage it without you.
Serj, Maynard. Did you write this brief?
[Meaning a brief in Sir Tho. Gascoigne's hand.
Mr. Hobart. No, an't please you, sir.
Then Mr. Ravenscroft offered to speak what
ibis witness had told him.
Just. Dolben. Look you, Mr. Ravenscroft, if
what he says tend any thing to his business,
that sir T. Gascoigne comes to know of bis
stealing, and then turned him oat of his ser-
vice, it is material ; but if you come to tell a
Story here of another man's knowledge, we
cannot spend our time so.
Mr. Ravenscroft. It was not known but last
night to ine; and if you will not let me tell you
what it is, how shall you know it ?
Mrs. Ravenscroft. He is a chief witness for.my
grandfather, and I desire he may he heard, for
he discovered it but last night to my husband.
.(Fust. Dolben. If it tend any thing to this bu-
siness, that sir Thomas turned him out of doors,
and therefore this man bears him an ill will-
Just. Pemberton. We had as good beer Mr.
Raveoscroit, however ; but pray bir, make your
story sheet.
Mr. Ravenscrqft. He came to me and said
these words ; I have kept a secret a long while,
in which I have done very ill-
Just. Pemberton. Then it does not tend at
all to this affair; for you must not come to tell
a etory out of another man's mouth.
Just. Doibtn. Pray sit still, sir, and be quiet.
Just. Jones. Indeed you must be satisfied.
Jest. Pemberton. If you hare any other wit-
nesses, caU then, and do not *pend our -time.
| Just. Jones. For the jury -must be told, that
it is no evidence coming out of another manfe
mouth.
Just. Dolben. It is as if a man should come
and say, I can -say something to sir T. Gas-
coigne, when I know nothing but what another
man told me.
Just. Jones. Ask sir Thomas if he would have
this Badow examined ?— Sir T. Gasc. Yes.
Just. Pemberlon. Then what questions will
you ask him ?
Sir T. Gasc. What conspiracy was 'had to
take away a great deal of money from me; and
how he concealed it, because be would not do
him a mischief?
Just. Dolben. What is that to sir Thomas's
life ?
Mr. Ravenscroft. I cannot tell you .by bare
assertion, but if you will hear what I have to
«ay, do. Last night, late at night, aboet nine
o'clock, Barlow cane to me ; says he, Mr.
Ravenscroft
Just. Dolben. Come, do net tell us the pre-
amble, but the story.
Mr. Ravemcroft. Said be, I have-a thing
thnt sticks upon my thoughts, whicbj doubt may
endanger sir Thomas's life.
Just. Dolben. Well, was it about taking
money?
Mr. Ravenscroft. Said he, If I am silent, I
doubt it will cost sir Thomas his life. Then I
asked him what it was ? says be, Mr* Mow-
bray, who is a witness. in this court, and I dial
just a little before his going away, combine, or
rather he did seduce me—
Just. Pemberton. Was it aboutmoney ?
Mr. Ravenscroft. Money is in the case.
Just Dolben. He did conspire, what to 4k>*
Mr. Raotnscraft. If you will hear me, I will
sell you.
Just. Jones. Pray do it quickly then.
Mr. Ravenscroft. Did combine to rob sir
Thomas ef a- great sum of money; and whereas
I held my tongue, thinking not tuspiH his blood,
I see now if 3 do not tell the truth, I shall
make food his credit, and so endanger sir
Thomas's life. .
Just. Dolben. Well, I will ask you, oreny
roan alive no w, two men combine to rob ear
Thomas, whether one man be a competent
witness against the credit of the oilier witness ?
He makes himself a roeee by combining, and
you have made him a knave by his own con-
fession. ,
Mr. Ravenscroft. I may perhaps err in the*
word ; be did not say combine, bat the other
seduced him.
Just. Dolben. You have told a story to no
purpose.
Just. Pembetton. You think >itaifine thing to
be a catholic, and to appear brisk for them.
Mr. Rmvenscroft. Who says i" am a catho-
lic?
Then George Dixon appeared.
Bir T. Gasc. What do you know of eery
spiracy of these people against est- ?
1021T
STATE TRIALS, 3fi Gnhitun IL 1680^-/**. fl%ft T^aixw.
[I(32f
Dixon, My lord, I was at William Batloy's in
August last at ten o'clock, and Mr. Bolron and
Mr. Mowbray came in, and called for a flaggon
of drink ; and when it was brought, they foil
into a discourse together, concerning sir T.
Gascoigne aud my lady Tempest. Says Mr.
Mowbray, I know nothing of sir Thomas- but
that he is a very honest man.
Serj. Moynord. He was not bound to tell
you what he knew.
Just. Jones. When was this, in August last?
Dixon. Yes ; but, said he, if I knew any
thing against my lady Tempest, I would dis-
cover ity for I would hang her if I could. And*
they sat down at Mi*. Batley's house to con-v
suit what they should do. >
Just. Prmierion. Before you ?
Dixon. Yes, I heard every word.
Just. Jones. And what did they say ?
Dixon. They said they- would meet at- Mr.
Baton's house ; and if they would complete
their business^ they should "he very well gra-
tified.
Just. Dolben. Against, whom ?
Dixon. Against my lady and sir Thomas.
Just. Dolben. But yon say, Mowbray said he
knewi nothing against sir Thomas Gaecoigae ?
Duron.. No ; he said he knew- no- hart by
them.
Just. Dolben. How came they to say they
would contrive their business.
Mr. Mombray. What man is* that, Mr.
Bolron/?
Bolron I koow».hini notx nor ever held any
such discourse.
Mr. Mowbray. Nor. L
Just. Jones, slow far do you live off one from
another ?
Dixon, I live at Leeds, Mr. Mowbray knows
roe.
Mr. Mombray* I do net know that ever I
saw you.
Dixon. He harh drunk with me:
Mr. Mowbray, I know him not, nor where
he dwells.
Just. Dolben. What trade are you1 of ?
Dixon. A cloth dresser by trade, but I keep
a public house.
Just; Dolben-. This discourse war at Leeds,
was it not ?
Dieron. Yes.
Just. Dolben. They say both they do not
know you, nay, they swear it. And it is very
like you were but very little acquainted^ would
they let you hear them talk thus ?
Dixon. We were as well acquainted as can
. be, bat that he will deny it.
Alt. Gen. Pray what religion are you of ?•
Dixon. A protestant.
Alt. Gen. How long have you been so?
Dixon. M the days of my lire.
Ait. Gen. I cannot bot wonder at the strange-
ness of your acquaintance.
Mr. Mowbray. My lord, t have not drunk
at that place which is near the old church at
Leads, not this tw o years.
Then WUUam Entity was called.
Batiam. And if.it likeyour'honour, these Gw©
gentlemen, Mr. Bolron and Mr.Mowbray, come
to my house, and called- for a pot of drink.
Att. Gen. Do you not know this man neither?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes, I do, but F was never
three times in his company in my life. - '
Bot ley, I filled them a flaggon of ale, and
when I had done I left them. They began to
discourse of. the plot, and sir Thomas Gas-
coigne, and Mr. Bolron- — -
Just. Dolben. At your house •; where is your
house?
Bat ley. My bouseiB near the old church at
Leeds..
Just. Dolben. Is that the same- place* the
other man speaks of ?
Bat lei/. Yes. Says Mr, Bolron to him, Thou
knowest that sir T. Gascoigne hath been very
severe against thee and me, aud now here is~ad
opportunity offered us to take a revenge upon
sir T. Gascoigne^ Mowbray replied again, As*
for sir Thomas, he is* a very honest man, and I
know no hurt by him ; bat as to my lady Tern*
pest, if I knew any thing against her I would
hang herr for I would discover it. But thou
knowest, says Bolron, that sir Thomas sues?
and troubles* n*e> and if I dot not make some*
what out against him, he will-rwa me, and' if
masrbe dona by two witnesses.- To which Mr,
Mowbray answered again, How shall we bring
this- business about/ If thou wilt but come to
my house, said he, I will put thee in a way trf
contrive it, and we shall have a considerable
reward. And' Mowbray tekt him- he would1
come to him such a day.
Justice Dolben. Was- tbarmaff tfcat went out
last, with you all the time they spake t
Dixon. Yes.
Justice Dolben. He dees not say half so much,
as you do.
Justice Pembertom Were you in the room ?
Bailey. No, I was-at the stairs head.
Justice Pemberton. What did yoa stand there
for?
Bat ley. I hearing them discourse of sir Tbo/I
Gascoigne, hearkened what they did say.
Justice Dolben. The other man said he was
in the room with* them ; were* yott in the room K
Bat ley. I stood upon the stairs.
Justice Jones. Were yoa in- their company at
all that day?
Balky . Yes, ray lord, {.carried' op ailaggoo.
of ale.
Justice Jones. Was the door left open ?
Bailey. Yes:
Justice Dolben. Would any roan talk in such
a place as this, that all the world may hear
them, when tl^ey are contriving to take away a
man's life? * ■ -
Justice Pemberton. You were in the same*
room, Dixon, were you not ?
Dixon. They were at the Grice head, and we
at the foot.
Justice Jones. But the other says he was,, at •
the top of the stairs, the head of the stairs.
Dixon. We were at the stairs-foot, and they
were in the room.
1023] STATE TRIALS, %2 Charles II. 1680.— Trial o/ Sir Thomas GtKoignc, [1024
BatUy. The table they sat at joined just
-lipon the head of the stairs.
Justice Jones. Did you hear them down to
the stairs- foot?
Dixon. We did stand there to bear them dis-
course.
Justice Dolben. Could you see them where
you were ?
Dixon, Yes, as fair as I see you.
Justice Dolben. Could they see you ?
Bat ley. No, they could not.
Dixon. Yes, if they bad looked down.
Justice Dolben. Why then 1 ask you, Do
you think, if you stood in so open a place to
be seen, and they had seen you, can you ima-
gine that they would talk so about taking away
sir T. Gascoigne's lifei
Bailey. I do imagine they did not know I
was there, nor believe any one beard or saw.
Justice Pemberton. Do you know how they
came there ?
Bat ley. They said they came out of Leeds,
and seid one Mr. Legat was to come that way,
who they were to speak with.
. Justice Jones. I ask you if you ware in the
room under them ?
. Batley. And if it like your lordship, I stood
at the stairs- foot —
Justice Jones. Jus* now you said it was the
stairs-head.
Justice Pemberton, Did you say any thing
to them about this?
Bat ley. No ; I did not open my lips to them
about it, but I told it to a friend about three
or four weeks after.
. Justice Jones. To whom ?
Bat ley. To a neighbour of mine : I suppose
it was told Mr. Babbington.
Justice Dolben. What say you, Mr. Bab-
bington ? How came you to know of this ?
Mr. Babbington. Wber the commissioners of
Oyer and Terminer were titling at Leeds, there
was one came and told me, George Dixon
could afford me something that would be very
advantageous for the benefit of sir T. Gas-
coigne.
Justice Dolben. Who was that man ?
Mr. Babbington, Bennet Johnson, or Francis
Johnson.
. Justice Dolben. Was that the man you
spoke to ?
Bat ley. No, I spoke it to a smith, one
Richard Loftus.
Mr. Babbington. I will tell yoa another per-
son I heard it from, that was Mr. Bailiff of
Leeds.
Justice Pemberton. Well, was this the com-
mon discourse of Leeds ?
Justice Dolben. He says so. Was it then
presently ?
Mr. Babbington. The bailiff did not tell me
•O suddenly.
Justice Dolben. Would it nor have been to
your purpose to bave brtugbt the bailiff here ?
Mr. Babbington. It was after the commission
of Oyer and Terminer that I bad it from him,
jwhich was in October.
*
Mr. Bolron. In the-time of August I was not
at Leeds, I was in Northumberland starching
for priests, and in the bishoprkk of Durham,
all but a little of the first of it.
Then Mrs. Jefferson was called.
Justice Pemberton. What do you ask her?
Sir T. Gate. Pray be pleased to speak to the
conspiracy and combination against me.
Justice Jones. Whose combination ?. Come,
mistress, what do you know ?
Jefferson. I asked Mr. Mowbray due time
what be knew concerning sir T. Gascoigne ?
And he said he knew nothing, but sir Thomas
was a very honest gentleman for what be knew,
and the best friend he had.
Justice Jones. Is that all you know ?
Jefferson. He thought he was wrongfully
accused.
Justice Pemberton. When was this*? Was
this after the time he was accused by Bolroo ?
Jefferson. It may be it might be, I think it
was in August.
Justice Jones. In August last ?
Jefferson. Yes.
. Justice Dolben. But yoa must needs know
(it was the talk of the country) when sir T.
Gascoigne was sent for up to town ; was it
after that time ?
Jefferson. Yes, I think it was.
Justice Jones. Then you say, you heard
Mowbray say that sir T. Gascoigoe was an
honest gentleman, and he could say nothiug
against him.
Jefferson. Yes, ask him ^9e*
Then Matthias Higgringil was called.
Justice DolBen. Was he one at the meeting?
Bolron. He was at the sealing the collusive
conveyance.
Justice Jones. This Higgringil is a Protestant,
is he not ?
Bolron. I know not, I think so.
Justice Dolben. Come, sir, what say you in
this matter ?
Higgringil. To whom ?
Justice Dolben. What can you say to the
business about sir T. Gascoigne?
Sir T. Gate. Speak co the threateniogs to
take away my life. ,
Higgringil. I have nothing to say to Bolron ;
but Mowbray on the £5th of September last,
being at an alehouse, Mr. Legat and be were
together, consulting bow to disgrace sir Tho-
mas, and take away his life ; and he calls me
out to speak with me : now, said he, I shall
match them, for they have done what they could
to disgrace me.
Justice Jones. How did he mean that ?
Higgringil. I suppose he had taken away
some money and gold, and they spoke of it,
and that was to disgrace him.
Jusrice Dolben. Was it charged upon him?
Higgringil. It was suspected always he had
taken it away.
J us 'ice Dolben. But was there any such
thing talked of in the country ? -
1025] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— ybr High Treason.
[1026
Justice Jones. What did he say to you ?
- Higgringil. He said, they did what they
could to disgrace him, and take away his life,
and he would requite them.
Justice Pemberton. Who, they ?
Higgringil. Sir T. Oascoigne and my lady
Tempest.
Justice Pemberton. Why ? Did sir Thomas
indict him ?
Higgringil. No ; but the noise was about
the country.
Justice Dolben. When was this? In Septem-
ber last? *
Higgringil. Yes.
Justice Dolben. What profession are yon of,
Higgringil ?
Higgringil. An husbandman ; I graze, and
1 farm a farm.
Justice Dolben, You know this man, do yon
' not, Mr. Mowbray ?
Mr. Mowbray. Yes; sir Thomas employs
bim, be is a kind of collector to him.
Mr. Ravenscroft. He is no papist.
Then Francis Johnson appeared/
Justice Dolben. Well, come, what do you
know ?
Johnson. He hath sustained great losses by
him.
Justice Dolbcn. He ! Who ?
Johnson. Sir Thomas Gascoigne.
Justice Dolben. By whom?
Johnson. Bv Mr. Bolron.
Justice Dolben. What loss hath he received ?
Johnson. The very first month he entered, be
wronged him of 3/.
Justice Junes, How do you know that ?
Johnson. I cast up the accompt myself.
Justice Jones. But he kept him two years
after that?
Johnson. Yes, he, did. •
Mr. Bolron. My lord, 1 lost 3/. the first three
weeks, and sir Thomas forgave me it, I do not
deny it.
Justice Dolben. Do you know of any malice
between them, and that he said be would do
bim any mischief?
Johnson. No.
Then Mr. Peblest Clerk of the Peace Ta the
coonty of York, was called.
Sir T. Gasc. I would desire you to speak of
the carriage of Mr. Bolron to you, sir, what you
know.
Pebles, My lord, I was in York last assizes,
and Mr. Bolron oame tome into a room where I
was with some gentlemen, and asked me how
I did ? and asked me if I did not know him ?
I told him I did not remember bim : said he,
I am the prosecutor against sir T. Gascoigne.
So when fie was sat down, after a little while
be desired to discourse with me, and asked me,
If a man was indicted as a traitor, whether it
were fit to pay bim money ? I owe, said he,
■ir T. Gascoigne mpney, and I would know
whether it be fit to pay jt to bim : said I, I
think you may safely pay him his money before
VOl,. VII.
I he be convicted, but then it is the king's in my
opinion. 'Nay, said Bolron, he is sure to be
convicted : then said 1, 1 think it not safe to
pay it, therefore I leave that to your own dis-
cretion, whether you will or no. A little after
he desired to have my opinion concerning the
two judges that came out circuit, for I am
mightily abused by them, said he, they will not
at ail give me audience, I came from the king
and council, and they slight me, and will not
hear me speak : said I, I believe if you will go
to them, they will bear you. I went to speak
with them, and they sent some of their servants
out to know what I would say to them ; but
I have writ a letter to them to tell them my
mind. But said I, I cannot believe that any
one will presume to carry such a letter; but for
that I will leave it to you. So I came away
from him, and after he follows me out, and de-
sires to speak with me again : said he, I have
something against you concerning this business
in hand, I can do you a prejudice if I will: said
I, God bless me I know nothing of it, and I do
not at all intend to court your favour, I have
no mind at all to that : said he, I will not do
it ; and he spoke as if he had no desire to do
it ; I would not court him, but came away and
left him : he followed nie to- tbe street again,
and said, will you help to apprehend a traitor ?
Who is it, said I? It is a gentlewoman, said be,
a woman greatly concerned in the plot ; you
may apprehend her in the street, and it is the
best time. Now the street was full, and I
thought it a little unseasonable ; so he, looked
after roe, but I never offered to go from bim :
said I, was she in the plot ? Yes, said he,
she was to be the first lady mayoress of
York after the plot took effect, and tbe king
was killed ; but be did not lay hold upon. her,
so 1 parted with her. Then, said he, I can
have no respect. Said I, I have nothing to do
with you ; I am clerk of the peace of tbe West-
riding in this county, and am always ready to
do /my duty there; so awa\ I went and left
him. The next news' I heard was, he had
procured a warrant of the council against me ;
and he brings the warrant to a justice of peace,
and that justice of peace told him there would
be several justices of peace at Leeds within two
or three days after, and then they would exa-
mine the business. I chanced to be in a room
with some gentlemen, not knowing of the war-
rant that was out against me ; and this gen-
tleman that was the justice of peace called me
into another room, and told me of this busi-
ness : I admired at it, and told bim 1 did know
nothing of it, nor that I had disobliged bin,
unless it was because I did not give him the
compliment and ceremony of my hat, nor give
him money; neither did I know what informa-
tion he had procured that warrant upon. He
told me Mr. Mowbray and Mr. Bolron were
in town ; so I desired him to send' for the other
justices into the room, where he acquainted
them with the matter and said he, if you will we
will examine it to night ; so they sent notice
to Mr. Mowbray and Mr. Bolron, that they
1027] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chahles II. \680.— Trial of Sir nomas Gascoigne, [1025
would examine the business that night at six
o'clock, and they came ; and he was asked
what he had to say against toe ? He said I had
taken money for keeping a man from taking
the oath of allegiance, and they had witnesses
to prove it *
Serj. Maynard. Must he be "here admitted
to make his own defence ?
Justice Dolben. Brother, -let him go on.
Pebies. The witness was called upon, and
<they*asked hhnto that point, and he denied ab-
solutely upon his oath that 'he gave me any
money, rftid also swore he had taken the oath
when it was tendered to him. Then my lord
there was one Mr. Dunford an attorney was
spoken of, as if he could prove something, but
he was fonrteen miles off, and they could not
tend for him, and so I begged they would ap-
<point another time for hearing when he could be
there ; they appointed Monday following and
ordered me to attend, and ode of the justices of
the peace undertook to gire 'Dunford notice.
Accordingly I came there, but there was no
Mr. Bolron nor Mr. Mowbray ; but I desired
that Mr. Dunford might be examined upon his
-oath, and they did take his information in wri-
ting, and be swore be knew nothing of it,
itehher did he ever give me money upon such
account.
Justioe Dolben, You were 'not by wlien it was
sworn ?
Pebies. I saw the examination taken in
writing.
Justice Pebiberton. And you were dis-
charged I
Pebies. Yes ; for he could not make out any
"tiling at all.
Just. Pemberton* It was well for you he
could not make it out.
Pebies. They said they could prove it, and
Touched these two persons, but both -denied it
apon their oaths.
Justice Dolben. Is that all you know ?
Pebies, That is all I can say in particular, I
have not a mind to speak against Itim in ge-
neral, because he is the king's evidence.
Just. Dolben. You can say nothing of his
repute?
Justice Pemberton. You were a stranger to
aim, you did not know him ?
Sir T. Gate. I desire he may speak what re-
putation he had among the justices.
Pebies. I have no mind to reflect on the
king's evidence; and if I did, it would seem as
if I should speak in malice ; he bath done me
Wrong, bnt I never did bim any.
Justice Jones. But what is bis reputation
'generally ?
Pebies. Truly it is not very good in the
country.
Justice Jones. Among whom ?
Pebies. The grand jury and the gentlemen
*f the country.
Justice Jones. Is it a common fame in die
country f
Peblu. Most people discourse ill of
Justice Dolben. Did he say be did not
with the, judges ?
Bolron. No, my lord, I did not.
Justice Dolben. You did speak with os;
indeed you would have had us allowed you si
guard for your safety, which we could not do.
Mr. Bolron. Whereas he says I gave in a.
wrong information, this same Hunt when he
came before tliem confessed he gave him 40s.
but he would not swear for what it was*
Serj. Maynard. It is nothing to the purpose
one thing or other that he bath mid.
Justice Dolben. It is altogether uncertain;
nobody knows what to make of it.
Then Hardwicke was called.
Sir T. Gasc. Do you speak what threateKot-
ron bath used to his wife to swear against me.
Hardwicke. Wheu the pursuivants came op
to Barn bow, the ehief constable ordered me to
assist Mr. Bolron in execution of the warrant,
and to carry the witnesses before a justice. We
went to Robert *Bolron's bouse to take the wit-
nesses, and there was his wife, his brother, and
his sister : We were to carry them before a
justice, and. the? refused to go ; his wife pro-
tended to be sick and could not go, and they
begged of us to excuse them.
Just. Dolben. Who do yon call they ?
Hardwicke. His wife, his brother and hit
sister: Bolron told them tbey must go, and
William Backhouse and I ordered thesn by all
means to go along with us; I suppose it was to
testify what he had sworn.
Just. Jones. What were they to do, did he
tell them ? .
Hardwicke. They were to go to tell what hit
testimony was above, as well ae I understood
the discourse. «
Just. Dolben. We have had two persons to
this purpose before. They say he would have
bis wife go, and ijie refused to go, and cried ;
but they do neither of them say he pressed her
to speak any thing more than she knew, or
against her •knowledge.
Just. Pemberton. No, one of the witnesses)
said, he told her it was to speak her 'know?
ledge.
Then William Clow was examined.
Just. Dolben. Come, what say you ?
Clow. The SSd of May last I bad a writ
against Bolron, and my man arrested him and
brought him to my liouse.
Jfust. Dolben. At whose suit?
Ciow. At the suit of one liiggringil that was
servant to sir Thomas; and there I bad him
two days, and would not carry him to the gaol,
for be begged -of me I would not; but then I
told htm I would keep him no longer there,
for he had no money for lodging and
diet; but he begged so bard of mo that
I would but tarty till Higgringil came, and
then he did not care what they did with him ;
for be would make sir Thomas pay Huzriugil
bis debt that he owed him, or be would phj*
bim such a trick as be little dreamt of.
1029]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— /or ffigA Ttauwi.
[1030
Just. Dolben. When was this ?
Gfe*. The Mat at ttd or* May leaf, or there-
abouts.
Just. Dolben. May last ?
Cfasw Yes. And so Iiiggriagil cane aver,
and they did agree, and he gave him a lease of
in noose he Jived in, and HiggringU took the
charge of both the debts upon him.
Then Hobart stood up.
Sir 7. Gate. Speak whether he pretended he
writ a letter to the duke of Monmouth from
Leeds.
Hobart. My lord, I have nothing to say to
that.
- Just. Jones. What can you say then ?
Hobmrt. All that I can say is to the sums of
money returned to town.
Just. Dolben. He did not mention that.
Hobart. If you please to let me declare what
I know about the returning of the money.
Just. Pemberton. Pray speak what you know
of your own knowledge.
Hobart. For most fart of it, I know of the
payment of it, and to whom ; 1,800/. there was
paid to Mr.Trumbal about the purchase, it was
paid at Mr. Maw son's : I was a witness to the
deed, and to the receipt.
Att. Gen. That is some, but what to the
rest?
Hobart. 200/. was paid to a client of mine,
SO/, was paid to one widow Can son that was
upon bond.
Jose. Dolben. How much was paid to Mr.
Corker?
Hobart. Several sums, above 300/. paid to
Corker in 6 years time.
Just. Pemberton: Nay, in 4 years time.
Hobart. This 300/. and 300/. before I drew
the receipt for; and commonly he ordered me
when Mr. Corker came for it, that I should
havft a receipt from Mrs. Mary Appleby ; and
it came back signed by her, to whom sir Tho-
mas was guardian.
Just. Dolben. And was all this money paid
to Corker upon the account of this Appleby ?
Hobart, It was mentioned in the receipt.
lost. Dolben. How much was she to have by
(be year ?
Hobart. 100/. by the year, or 2 sometimes.
Just. Dolben. How came she to have 900/.
in 4 years?
Hobart. My lord, I will tell you ; for that
there was*a great arrear upon* a suit between
air Thomas and Mr. Appleby, this Mrs. Ap-
pleby's father; aud upon the bearing of the
cause, my lord keeper Bridgmaa was pleased
to order, that this money should be paid to sir
Thomas for the use of the daughters; 200/. a
year, that is 100/. a piece ; and there was an
arrear for 8 or 4 years during the suit, about 2
or 800/. it was : I drew a receipt for it, and sir
Thomas being pressed for the money by Mrs.
Appleby, who weat beyond sea, be seat to
Corker to get the money returned to her.
Jast. Dolben. Ay, but you dance about the
feishs Was there an arrear of /MX)/. ?
Hobart. For 3 or 4 yean, and Mrs. Raven*
•croft was one ojf the sj^tgrs ; her part was pai4
when she was mftrrie4 t>u.* *h*s le.°de woman's,
was paid beyond sea?
Jus{. Dojbqn,. Were there arrears %om sir
Thomas to the gentlewoman beyond sea,?
Hobart. Yea,
Just. PotU*. Are jou sure there was ?
Hobart. Yes, sir Thomas told me so.
Just. Pemberton. Who was to nay this raonej ?
Hobart. Jflflr. Appleby* by order of mj loro}
keeper.
Ju*L Jones. Sir Thomas was guardian, was
the f state in Yorif sl)ire I "
Hobart. It did arise out of rents there.
Then one Culliford was tailed.
Just. Dolben, What say you I Whe,t 0*0 you
know of this matter ?
Culliford. This gentleman lodged at suph a,
time at my house; the' 4th of June 1677, he]
was at my house 7 neefes* and he was gpne 3
weeks and returned again; he was, 3 weeks
away.
Just, Jo*?*. What gentleman was this?
QuUiforq'. Mr. Mowbray.
Jusj. XXolSen. What is, that to the purpose ?
Just. Jones. How do yqu apply tfiat ?
Hobart. ftlr. Mowbray fcath sain* he sent a
letter to the dulfe of Mqnmouth. *
Just. J)olb*n, There fratb J>een no mention
made of any such {{ling : Have you any more
witnesses?
Hobart. No.
Just. Dolben. Then self sir Tt>oma* what be
hath to say for bimse|f.
Hobort. Have ypji any $iog to fay to the
court for yourself? '
Sir T. Gate, Np, I refer myself to {he judg-
ment of the court.
Then a Woman Witness appeared.
Sir 31. pate What do you know concerning
Mowbray, whether be was suspected of stealing
when he was at my bouse?
Witness. Yes, he was, my lord ; he would
have given me 5/. to have gene away^ ana he
did intend to have clapped me in prison, ano*
to have laid it all uppu me.
Just. Dolben. Hop do you Jmow tha£ ?
Witness. He told me so.
Mr. Mowbray* This is a common woman,
and not to be believefl.
Serj. Maynard. My lord, we will reply Jwjt
dhe short thing in matter of evidence. Mycji of
this that hath been given by the defendant hafji
been to take off tlje credit of the witnesses ;
and for Boirpn, they would suggest that be hatfc *
been dishonest to sir Thomas; but when sir
Thomas himself was examined to that point
before the council, he said he found ium ho-
nest, but only accounted him a fool.
Just. Dolben. Ttyat is proper for you to do
now, brother.
Sexj. Maynard. A"d sir Thomas being exa-
mined about ftnshton, he said he o\id opt know
inch aq one, s^t^afterw^ he
1031] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680— Trial qf Sir Thomas Gatcoignc, [IUU
knew onto of that name. Here is sir John
Nicholas, the clerk of the council. [Who was
sworn.]
Att. Gen. Pray sir, do you know what sir
T. Gascoigne said at the council- table. '
Sir John Nicholas. He was asked whether he
knew Bolron? He said, he knew him very
well, he had been his servant till within this
twelvemonth, or something more ; but for his
honesty, he had nothing to say to it, till of late
that he had not behaved himself so well, in giv-
ing informations against him : But he did find
him now, what he did always take him to be, a
fool.
Just, Dolben. What did he say about Rush*
ton?
Sir J. Nicholas. At first he did say, he did
not know Rushton the priest ; but after it was
brought to bis memory, he said he knew one of
that name.
Att. Gen. It was taken down in the minutes;
Sir John, look upon them.
Sir J. Nicholas. He denied at first that he
knew Rushton the priest ; and afterwards the
next time he came to the council, he said he
did deny it, because he was afraid of an old law
against harbouring of priests.
Att. Gen. If your lordship please, we will
now trouble you with a witness or two in an-
swer to what Backhouse and Hardwicke have
•aid as to Bolton's threatening of his wife. We
will call the wife to give you an account of
that
Just. Dolhen. They did not charge him, that
they pressed her to swear falsely.
Just. Pemberton. That does not at all touch
upon the witness.
Att. Gen. If the court be satisfied, we will
trouble you with that no farther.
Just. Jones. I believe Backhouse did say,
that this Bolron would have his wife go before
the justice of peace; she said she knew no-
thing at all, yet be would have her go and tes-
tify Her knowledge; and if she would not, he
would have her dragged at the horse's tail.
Att. Gen. I think it is necessary to call a
witness or two to that First to call her herself.
[Then Mrs. Bolron was sworn.]
Att. Gen. What did your husband threaten
you to make you swear against sir T. Gas-
coigne ?
Just. Dolben. Now you are upon your oath
speak the truth.
Mrs. Bolron. • No never in bis life did Tie
threaten me upon any such account
Just. Dolben". Do you remember when the
constable came down to have you go before
'squire Lowther ?
Mrs. Bolron. Yes, my lord.
Just. Dolben. How chance you did not go
with him?
Mrs. Bolron. I was unwilling to go then, be-
cause I could say little to the purpose.
Just 3olben. Did he use any threats to you
to make you swear against sir Thomas.
Mrs. Bolron. No my lord ; but he would have
me go, whether I said any thing or no.
Just. Dolben. Did be ever desire you la
speak any thing you did not know ?
Mrs. Bolron. No, my lord, never in his life.
Att. Gen. My lord, Mr. Bolron desires to
have this woman, his grandmother, be asked
whether he threatened bis wife ? [And she wis
sworn.]
Sol. Gen. She was by at that time.
Just. Dolben. Were you by at that time when
the constable came to carry the witnesses be*
fore Mr. Lowther.
Mrs. Bolron Sen. Yes.
Just. Dolben. Hark you, did not you see the
woman that went over there cry, and say sht
was unwilling to go?
Mrs. Bolron. Sen. Her husband said she
should go, though she said nothing.
Just Dolben. But her husband did not press
her to say any thing but what was truth?
Mrs. Bolron Sen. No, indeed did he not.
Just. Pemberton. And did not seem to stick
before?
Att. Gen. What can you say to this honest
man here, your son ?
Just. Dolben. I will warrant she will spy be
is honest still.
Att. Gen. But here are a company of people
would make him a dishonest man. .
Mrs. Bolron Sen. Sir Thomas Gascoigne.
said he was as truthful a servant as ever he bad
in his life.
Just. Dolben. Did you hear him say so?
Mrs Bolron Sen. 1 heard him say so in hit
own chamber.
Just Dolben. When?
Mrs. Bolron Sen. After he was married:
And besides, sir Thomas did say he would d«
any thing that he could for him, in relation he
had been a true servant to hiin.
Just. Dolben. Call Mr. Phiswick again,
(Who appeared.) Look ye, sir, you <are a man
that I see hath been trusted by all the family
of the Gascoignes, and you know in what reps?
tation he was.
Phiswick. Sir, while I was his fellow servant
I knew no ill by him.
Just. Dolben. Was he accounted an ho-
nest man ?
Phiswick. I can say nothing to the contrary.
Serj. Maynard. Then my lord, to conclude*
I desire to speak a word. On the one aid*
here is an ancient gentleman's life in question,
and that or his death are to lie the issue of this
cause ; on the other side, here is the discovery
of a plot upon which all our lives, our reiigioo,
and the life of our king depend. It did require
your patience, and vou have yielded it. Wheie
lies the question ? If these witnesses that ha**
been examined be believed, there is no ques-
tion but he is highly guilty of the Plot. The
witnesses tell you, when there was no talk of
the plot, there was a preparation of a false and
fraudulent conveyance to be drawn by 1"T,5e
of counsel ; and why was this made ? I*** JJ*
should forfeit his estate. This is proved in the
beginning. Yon find next a meeting of toe
priests, and there what they did does pot con-
1033]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1034
earn this gentleman at the bar, till he took notice
of it, and then joined in it, and approved of it,
and did declare it was a worthy plot, a meri-
torious plot for the good of the church, and at
last particularly he would give 1,000/. to Bolron
to destroy the king and murder him. The
other witness agrees with' him. And what is
said against all this r They have called and ex-
amined I think 19 or 20 witnesses, three touch-
ing the threatening of his wife, but that falls
out to be nothing ; two alehouse- keepers that
stood at the bottom of the stairs, and overheard
their discourse ; but you have all heard bow
they have contradicted one another,- they had
not agreed well enough together on their story.
All that the rest do is meant thus, and so far
they make something of it, that there should
be a debt due from this Bolron to this gentle-
man, and so it were some contrivance as if he
would do it by way of revenge; it does fall out
many times that men do quarrel, but this is a bu-
siness of another nature. They say that he should
threaten he would serve him a trick, or there
■were some such words; but under favour/ the
question is of the truth of his testimony; now
it is not likely, that they knew what his testi-
mony would be; and there is nothing against
the other witness that concurs with him, but
the fellows that were upon the stairs, that talk
oae of one part of the stairs, and the other of
the other. The matter is clearly, Whether the
witnesses be to be. believed, or whether there
be any thing sufficient offered to take off their
testimony. You will be pleased to observe as
to what was spoken about the money and
the nunnery : We brought you a letter from
the priest who was mentioned to be one of
them at the meeting, Pracid, that writes and
dates his letter from the place the witness
speaks of, and there you will observe that in
one of the letters it is expressed, If England
be converted (there is the main of the Plot),
for all I suppose goes to that purpose. Pray
who thought of England's conversion at that
time ? What led them into that, but a con-
sciousness of a design to convert England? My
lord, another piece of a letter there is concern-
ing the oath of allegiance, you have heard it
read, and every body knows what the meauing
oi it is ; it is the engine of the Jesuits, that if
-they can but draw men off from their fidelity
to the king, whereof there is no testimony so
great as the Oath of Allegiance, they need not
juse so much of equivocation ; but that is an
abominable thing, and not to be endured, to
fO take off the strength of that oath that hath
cen taken by men more honest than the rest,
and not suffering the rest to take it at all : and
it is a damnable thing that they should assert
the king is an heretic, and the pope has deposed
him, therefore it is meritorious to kill b^m:
.but you have heard the evidence fully, ancf Jt
needs no aggravation.
Solicitor General. My lord, I think the evi-
dence hath been already repeated by Mr. Serj.
Maynard; and, mv lord, I think there is no-
thing in this case, but only the credit of the
witnesses; for if they be to be believed, there
is an evidenee as full as can be. I know your
lordship observes how it is introduced, how
they are fortified in some circumstances, which
sir Thomas did at first deny. They tell you,
that he had a pious intent to found a nunnery,
and did proceed so far as to majie a settle-
ment; this was denied by sir T. Gascoigne,
but hath been verified, and made out by his
own books and letters writ to him, which were
found in bis own custody. This did sir T. Ga's-
coigne do with an expectation of a sudden
change ; for the letters do declare, that Eng-
land was to be converted, as they called it, and
therefore they had settled their matters in or-
der, and they thought fit to insert that proviso
in the settlement, that if England should be
converted, then the money was to be disposed
so and so. But your lordship likewise ob-
serves, and you, gentlemen of the jury, what
o'ther correspondence sir Thomas Gascoigne
had with one CornwalKs or Pracid a priest. He
receives a letter which shews you what the
principles of all the Catholics are, how far they
have proceeded to take away even the oath
of allegiance, and the consequence of that how
far it will go, when they think themselves
obliged in conscience to cast off fidelity to their
prince; and what mischiefs may ensue no man
knows, but we may in part imagine. You have
already had sufficient discovery to make out
the use of this instilled principle, and that is
the design to kill the king; for this you hear
what the evidence say. Mr. Bolron, one of
them, is sent to the priest to be instructed by
him ; and by him was chid for offering to go
against their principles to take the oath, and
told him be was damned for so doing. And
presently after he was examined by sir T. Gas-
coigne upon some discourse with him what
Rushton had said, who had moved him like-
wise to kill the king, as he says. Sir T. Gas-
coigne knew to what purpose he sent him thi-
ther, not only to renounce the oath of alle-
giance, but to carry on the design which he
had in hand, and did introduce, by laying aside
the oath, and tells him he must engage in the
design to kill the king. He examines him
what the other had spoke to him of, and be
said he knew it was more than bare chiding of
him for taking the oath of allegiance ; and be
told him for his better encouragement to go
on that if he would undertake, he should have
1,000/. And this is the sum of Bolron's evw
deuce, as to sir T. Gascoigne. What then says
Mowbray, the second witness? He was so
faithful a servant, and so diligent, that he was
employed by Rushton the confessor to attend .
him at the altar, and being in service imme*
diate about him, and be being by that means
so dear to him, waited upon him in bis chamber,
and was privy to«all the consultations held
there. And he gives you an account bow long
this plot hath been in agitation, for they had
been discoursing a good while of it ; and re-
solved k should be done, if not by fair means,
by foul, and tells you plainly by killing the
10B&] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial qfSir Thwm Gascoigne, [1036
king: and that he heard sir Thomas Gascoigne
himself declare that it was a meritorious act
to kill the king ; and that as before he had the
oath of secrecy given him by Rushton, so he
did declare (which Mowbray standing at the
door heard) that he would never swerve from
the»oath, but he would assist to the utmost of
his power ; and they that were with him said,
tbey would stand by it with their lives and for-
tunes ; and when my lady Tempest understood
he was there, and was jealous of him, she bid
him go down, and entertain the guests below
stairs. So bere is an . evfdence from two wit-
nesses as full as can be in any case, that sir T.
Gascoigne was privy to the conspiracy, and
himself partaker of it, to kill the king. All
that hath been said against them, is to vilify
their reputation. As to Mowbray I hear but
little, only there are two witnesses that touch
htm ; and indeed if these witnesses were to be
believed, they say a great deal ; that is, they
were in an alehouse together, and beard' them
conspire to take away the life of sir T. Gas-
coigne. Indeed Mowbray said, for sir T. Gas*
ooigne, I know nothing but that he is a very ho-
nest gentleman, but for my lady Tempest, if I
could hang her I would : that they should hear
them contrive this together, and conspire how
tbey should take away che lives of this gentle-
man, and the others. Indeed, if these men say
true, it is a great matter to take off the credit of
testimony; but you heard, gentlemen, how
they did vary; for the one said, as I appre-
hended, at nrst he was in the room, afterwards
he was below stairs. Ask the one, could you
hear them ? Yes. Could you see them ? No ;
aaid the other, Yes. So that tbey were not
well provided, as to that matter, nor had they
consulted that point well, where they should
agree- to stand to overhear the matter. Now
ifthat be likelv, tbey should in the presence of
two persons whom they did not know, and one
of them they never saw, but in the court, de-
clare and discourse of such a matter as this for
the taking away the life of sir T. Gascoigne,
then we have nothing to say to them, we must
leave the credit of that to you; you will ob-
serve their variety in the story, and the impro-
bability of the thing. But then for Mr. Bolron,
the evidence against him is, that he is a very
dishonest man, and that this is all out of malice
|o sir T. Gascoigne. because he would sue him
upon his bonds. You observe how he does
behave himself under that prosecution ; all that
be hath he is willing to part with for payment
of bis debt; he makes over his estate tor satis-
JaGtioa and security, and does as much as an
bonest man can do, all he had shall lie at stake:
and as for sir T. Gascoigne himself, he hath no
such opinion of him in point of dishonesty, for
be declared he lived in his service without ex-
ception, and said before the council, he knew
nothing of dishonesty by him, but only this in-
formation, and now he found him to be (what
be always thought) a treat fool. Now whether
be thought him a fool for telling this story, or
*bat el**, you may explain the meaning of his
expression ; but as for any thing of dishonest jt
there is nothing against Mr. Bolron. Ho wan
hi debt, it is true, but what he had lay at stake
for the payment of it, and as far as it wouk!<g»
sir Thomas might take it; bat that for malice*
he should come to swear against him, there ie
nothing clearly made out. One witness says,
indeed, that he should say, Does sir T. Goo*
coigne intend to sue me, then 1 will do what
I did not intend to do. Whether that be *
speech of malice or no, or rather does confirm
the truth of his evidence, is left to your con-
sideration : It shews rather, there was some-
thing that he had in his power to do before any
prosecution from sir T. Gascoigne, or any oo
casion of his malice against him ; it hath not
the necessary import of a malicious speech,
that he did intend not to do such a thing, and
because be was sued did do it; that therefore
is only truth, and no malice. For the other
matter that is said against him, that he should
endeavour to suborn bis wife to swear falsely,
that was by no means fully proved, but rather
that matter hath been sufficiently cleared ; that
though she said she knew nothing, yet he would
have her go, though she said nothing; and yon
hear what the evidence hath been for Mr. Bol-
ron, that be never did press her to swear raise*
Iv, nor threaten her if she would not, hot only
desired ber to declare her knowledge if sbe
knew any thing, the truth, and nothing hot the
truth. These are all the objections made
against the credit of the witnesses ; and I think
if their credit do stand, you cannot have *
clearer evidence to convict any one than bath
been given you to day ; but that we leave to
you, and submit these objections, whether
they have any weight in them, and whether
tbey have not been fully answered.
Serj. Maynard. And our evidence if given
in all upon oath, and thsir's is not.
Just. Jones. Gentlemen, you of the Jure t
The prisoner at the bar stands indicted for
high treason, and for high treason of the highest
nature, for conspiring to take away the life of
the king, and for endeavouring to change the
religion, the Protestant religion into Popery ;
that is, contriving to extirpate the religion ef
Protestantism here, and introduce Popery in-
stead of it ; and certainly greater crimes the*
these no man can be accused of. There have
been produced, on the behalf of the king, two
witnesses, Mr. Bolron and Mr. Mowbray, both
of them servants to sir T. Gascoigne the pritov
ner, and therefore might very possibly ana pro-
bably enough be privy to all tbey have said and
testified in this case. It does appear by them
both, that sir T. Gascoigne was a very early
man in the Plot, if they say true. We heard
nothing of it till the long vacation, 1618; bet
it seems sir T. Gascoigne was a plotter and
conspirator in the year 1675 or 1670. And that
tc might be able to do this somewhat more
safely, he contrives how he might convey away
bis estate to prevent the forfeiture ; and he
makes an assurance of if to sir William Ingle-
by, cotourably, as die witnesses eweer, fee
1037]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles JI. 1630.— /or High Treason.
[10»
1,000/. And it does appear likewise, at to the
introduction of the Popish religion here, they
began to settle a nunnery, and it was tit to do
to agaiust England should be converted ; first,
in such a place : but if it happened England
were converted, then to he removed to another
place. There was at this nunnery appointed
an abbess, an assistant and several nuns ; and
air T. Gascoigne so well knew of this, that one
of them that was appointed to be a nun, at the
time of her taking horse, he said to her, ' There
goes an old maid and a young nun.' And
there are letters come from that very nunnery,
and from the priest that was appointed to at-
tend tliem as confessor, which nave been read
to you. And there is another preparation
thought necessary to introduce this Plot, and
that is. That alt Papists might be seduced into
an opinion that it was a dangerous thing to
take the oath of allegiance, and that it was a
damnable sin. For this purpose letters came
from the doctors at Sorbonue, and they deter-
mine it to be so, lest any man of that religion
should be so good a subject as to profess obe-
dience to the king m temporals. Then the Plot
goeton between sir Miles Stapletoo, sir Francis
Hungatt, sir Charles Vavasor, sir T. Gascoigne,
Air. Gascoigne, Middleton, Euthton, my lady
Tempest, and a great company more.; all met
together and consulting in sir T. Gascoigne'*
house, in his great room, his old dining-room,
to this purpose, not only to bring in their reli-
gion, but kill the king expressly (so -says the
witness). I think they had often talked of it
before the witness in the priest's -chamber; fur
he being then .a Papist was privy to his master's
design, and the rest of the confederates for
killing the king, which was the only thing they
desired to reflect, as tbe best way to bring in
•their religion ; and there was great reason to
•do it, they said too, for the kiqg had not kept
his word with them when he was in his exile ;
for they said, he bad promised if he was re-
stored to tys kingdoms, he would restore the
Popish religiou ; out now he was returned and
had broke his promise and nothing more was
to be done, the Pope having declared him an
heretic, bat to destroy him ; and this was that
which was agreed among them. The SOth of
May last, after divers other consults had about
it, the priest Rushton beiugat sir T. Gascoignevs
bouse, Bolron is desired to go into the gallery,
sad there presently comes in Ru&hton, sir Tho-
mas's priest ; Bolron acquaints him that he bad
been at tbe sessions, and taken the oath of al-
legiance. As soon as ever he heard it, he cries
out, He had committed a damnable sin, he
must of necessity renounce it, and repent of it,
imod he could give him a pardon, for ne bad an
extraordinary power, more authority than
ethers, he could give him absolution if he did
twpeat of it, and that no Catholic must by any
aneans take the. oath. A while after they had
a discourse concerning killiug the king; and
the witness saysindeed, be was not actually in
.the room, for be says he stood at the door, and
Jeeard all the discourse, till at last the lady,
Tempest, one of tlie conspirators, taking no-
lice of his being there, sent hiia down stales.
Justice Pemberton. That is Mowbray.
Mr. Mowbray. , I was called into tbe room,
and then sent down.
Justice Jones. It is true, brother, that was
Mowbray : but as to Bolron's discourse with
Rushton ; when sirT. Gascoigne, who was not
in the house at the time Bolron was with Rush-
ton, but bad given a charge he should not ^»
before he spoke with him : when he did come
home and spoke with bim, he takes upon hub
to go on with-the discourse concerning the Plot,
and he swears positively that be offered he
would give hrm 1,000/. and this he swears he
should have paid him in London. This is ex-
pressly the testimony of Bolron. Now what
says Mowbray ? He tells you (though that is
but introduction to make bis evidence more
probable) that there was great resort of priests
to the prisoner's house. He tells you of the
discourse and consultation the priests had in
the house, and that it was expressly and pre-
cisely for killing the king. He tells you, that
he did stand at the door and heard it, as I ob-
served before ; and he tells you too, which hath
not been observed, that at that time there was
produced a list of four or five hundred persons
that had engaged in the design of killing the
king : he did see the list, he did see sir T. Gas?
coigne*s hand, which be very well knew and
was acquainted with, and which might very
well be, being his servant. So that here i*> not
only a discourse and agreement by paroll, that
he should be in the conspiracy ; but if you be-
lieve him, he says, that here is actually the
hand of sir Thomas to the engagement to do
the villainy ; and truly they that were of that
persuasion at that time, might easily be induced
to it. For it was agreed amongst them, that
they should have a plenary indulgence of
10,000 years, and it was a meritorious act ;
and though sir Thomas perhaps was not so
ready to contribute in all things, yet bearing of
the meritoriousuess of the act, and withal that
he should be canoniaed for a saint for this piece
of piety, he certainly might readily consent to
it. Mr. Mowbray indeed was aaked, Why he
did not discover it sooner ? .He tells you why,
He was in fear of the Papists ; he was threat- '
ened ; and very like lie might be possessed with
fear, and so might a man of greater constancy
till the business was discovered ; and therefore
he did not talk of it in the country, but came
up here, where it was more safe to discover it,
and hath been here ever since. Besides this
testimony of these witnesses, gentlemen, there
are some papers produced, some that mention
money that bat!! been conveyed by sir T. Gas-
coigne, in confirmation of tbe testimony of
Bolrop the first witness, who does swear that
he heard sir Thomas say he would send 3,000/.
(o the Jesuits to go on and prosecute this. Plot ;
and afterwards he did hear him say, he had
sent the 3,000/. that he had promised* ;Now
it does appear by sir Thoma»'s almanack, that
ha bad sent several sums; his receiver Phiswick
>d
1039] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial qf Sir Thoma* Gascoigne, [1040
did speak of 6,000/. and he himself did give a
touch towards it. Indeed Phis wick was a re-
ceiver for sir Thomas, and likewise for his son,
and for the lady Tempest ; but it is impossible,
if they had sent all the money that ever they
had ; and considering too tha,t the lady Tem-
pest, as appears by the witnesses, lived in the
country, that it could have amounted to near
that sum of money ; for she had 300/. a year,
and the eldest son had but 400/. a year, how
then could 6,000/. be returned for them in four
years time ? It is true, there is some answer
given as to that 900/. by that witness Hobart,
who says there was a suit, and 100/. ay ear de-
creed to be paid to Mrs. Appleby, sir Thomas's
niece, for so many years, and he to take care
of sending that to her : and though that was
but 100/. a yeari yet there was a decree, or
some order, to pay the arrears with the other
money, which made it up 900/.
The evidence for the king against the pri-
soner is but two witnesses, but they as positive
and express as possibly can be. What then is
said by the prisoner, or the witnesses, in his de-
fence r There is one, that is Shippon, that gives
some testimony against the very evidence, and
the possibility of it to be true in one part of it :
for Bolron, he Jells you, that the 30th of May
was the time when there was that consult held
at sir 1'. Gascoignc's in the gallery with the
-priest, that he staid there till night,, and that
then 'sir Thomas talked with him, and made this
proffer to him for the murder and destruction
of the king. Here comes a witness, Shippon,
and tell* you, that that very 30th of May,
Bolron was at bis house at 3 o'clock, and
staid an hour or two after sunset. If that were
true that he were there all that time, it is not
then true that he speaks of about sir T.
Gascoignc ; and it was impossible that he
should be at the consult at that time when he
says he was there, and afterwards spoke to sir
T. Gascoigne. Now gentlemen, you have the
king's witness upon his oath ; .he that testifies
against him is barely upon his word, and he is
a Papist too, for that he was asked, and he did
confess himself so. I do not say that a Papist
is no witness, a Papist is a witness, and he is a
witness in a Papist cause, and for a Papist ; but
I must tell you, there is less credit to be given
to a Papist in a cause of this nature, who can
easily believe they mav have indulgences and
pardons enough for savin* one from the gallows
who is to be canonized for a Saint if the plot
take effect; He hath only affirmed it who is a
Papist, the other who is a Protestant swears
what his evidence is.
Mr. Babbingtoh, who was the first witness
examined for the prisoner, he tells you there
had been some debates and differences about
rent and money that was owing by Bolron to
the prisoner. He laboured and interceded
often on bis behalf; but at length not being
able to prevail that he should not be sued, the
witness swears, I will then do that which I did
not intend to do. What he meant by it is
doubtful, and it is an ambiguous speech ; but to
interpret it that he would swear faUelj to take
away a Irian's life, and so commit both murder
and perjury, is hard to infer and conclude from
such doubtful words. There are some wit-
nesses that tell you, that is, Moor and others,
that Bolron did say and swear that sir T. Gas-
coigne was never concerned in the plot t that
might very well be, especially if you take the
time when he did say this, he was a Papist a
great while after sir Thomas had engaged him-
self in the plot; and while he was so, it is not
unlike he would venture an oath to save any of
the same persuasion and religion he himself was
of. But whatsoever he said, it was not judici-
ally, he was not bound to discover to biro be
spoke to ; he is now upon his oath, and you
have heard what an express* testimony he gives.
As. to what is said concerning his wife, that lis
should endeavour to persuade her, contrary to
her knowledge, to give testimony against sir
T. Gascoigne, and therefore he is not to be be-
lieved here upon his own oath, who would have
his wife forswear herself to fortify him ; there is
'no such thing; and it does appear by the evi-
dence of those that are sworn, that he was
earnest, and would have his wife go and testify
her knowledge ; but did not infuse or intimate
any thing to her she should say, whether she
did know it or no : And to assure you that,
you have the oath of the woman herself, wbo
hath been present here, and tells you the same
thing. Dixon he comes and says, in August
last, Mowbray said he knew nothing of the
Erisoner, which may be answered by bis fear;
ut concerning the two witnesses that Mr.
Solicitor did take notice, he did tell you, and it
is plain, how very improbable it was two per-
sons should speak in the presence of strangers,
and tell them they were about to take away the
life of another person, the one of the lady Tea-
pest, who had done him a displeasure, the other
of sir T. Gascoigne; but Mowbray at that tin*
said he knew nothing of sir T. Gascoigne; but,
gentlemen, besides what was said before, this is
improbable any such thing should be, and joe
hear the witnesses, at least one of them, that he
never knew one of the two.
Mr. Bolron. I knew neither of them.
Just. Jones. I should be very loth to omit
any thing on the witnesses side, or that hath
been materially testified against them on the
prisoner's. I did not conceive the evidence
given by Mr. Pebles to come to any thing at aH.
There was a discourse between Bolron and him
at last assizes; after some talk Bolron tells bun
he had something to say to him, and what was
it? Bolron was told that be had mseharged
some persons that he ought not to do, (etcussd
them for money that did not take the oath of
allegiance as they ought to have done) and it
seems he did it here, and so far he went as to
bring witnesses before the justices of peace to
prove it. And although they did not give evi-
dence against Mr. Pebles m that very parti'
cnlar, yet certainly he thought they would have
said something ; but that does not argue at aU,
that because ha did accuse Mr. Pebles (a» **
1041]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. lGiKX— /or High Treason,
[1045
thought justly in that particular), therefore,
that now he should falsly accuse sir Thomas io
• matter that concern! ins life so highly. There
are some other things that were said by the
witnesses that would tead towards the proving
of some malice in the witnesses towards sir T.
Gascoigne, and therefore they give in this evi-
dence: One thing indeed was spoken by
Hickeringil ; that is, it was generally reported
in the country, that Mowbray had taken away
money from sir T. Gascoigne, and that Mow-
bray himself said, that as tbey had endeavoured
to take away his fame and life, now be had found
an opportunity to requite them. So saith the
witness, but it is not very probable. I leave it
with you upon the credit of the witnesses for
the king, who have sworn it upon their oaths,
and the others that go upon their words, and
not their oaths, whether they hare taken away
the force and strength of the king's evidence,
which is as full, express, and* positive as can be
by two witnesses.
Gentlemen, -here is on the one side the life of
an ancient gentleman before you ; on the other
side there is a conspiracy against the life of the
king, who is the breath of our nostrils, and
whom God long preserve. 1 know you being
upon your oaths will take into your considera-
tions both, and give a verdict according to the
evidence you have heard.
Just. Dolben. I will tell you gentlemen, I
capnot forbear saying one thing to you. There
is some evidence that makes it a very impro-
bable thing to be true what Mr. Bolron liaih
aaid ; and yet Mr. Bolron having said it so
positively, and Mowbray agreeing with it,
probabilities must give way to positive proofs.
I saw you did observe it when it was mentioned :
and it is true, to me it seems improbable, that
mx the very same time that sir 1 ho. Gascoigne
should sue hint upon his bond, and take a course
to turn him out of his house, that he should
then be privy to such a conspiracy ; it is impro-
bable either that sir Thomas should offer him
such a sum of money to kill the king, or if be
bad, that he should afterwards take that course
at law against him. Now for that I say this to
you, you are to give a verdict according to your
evidence. They have such secret contrivances
amongst themselves, (and be was a papist at
that time) that where there are two men that
positively tell you a thing that lies within their
own knowledge, and swear it is true, it is scarce
any improbability that should weigh against
such an evidence.
Just. Pemberton. And, gentlemen, consider
withal as to that ; for truly my brother Dolben
hath rightly minded you of that improbability,
for it was no more: but then you roust con-
sider all the circumstances. It is indeed at the
first blush improbable that a man would com-
mon icate so great a secret to another, if he did
intend to sue him for money he owed him; but
then it is likewise as improbable that he would
E revoke him by a suit if his life were in his hand ;
ut consider the delivering of the lease of eject-
ment, and those things were the 13th of June.
YOl. VII.
Mr. Babbington. But I bad sued him before
my lord.
Just. Dolben. The Sd of June, he says.
Mr. Babbington. I had direction long before
I did it. 4
Just. Pemberton. They threatened him ihe
2d, but they did not do it. But look you, gen-
tlemen, consider this ; I do not doubt but sir
T. Gascoigne was sure that this man durst not
discover any thing of this, for they had given
him the sacrament and an oath of secrecy, which
they look upon as a tie, among themselves, as
long as tbey continue in that religion, not upon
any account whatsoever to be undone ; and
they have such confidence in it, that they will
trust their lives and everv thing in a man's hand
when they have given that oath. Alas ! bow
could these people have the confidence to plot
one with another, as they do, when they know
their lives are in the hands of any one of all the-
reat, but upon this account ? Do out swear them
unto secrecy, and give them the sacrament of the
mass upon it, and then they think such a one
is proof enough against any thing in the world
for that is damnation if they break it, as their
priests tell them ; but I doubt not but sir Tho-
mas thought he had them as fast as can be upon
that lock. But as to sir Thomas's evidence of
those two men at Leeds, this is after the ac-
cusation of air Thomas That they spake of; and
can any man alive believe that they would go
and plot to contrive the death of these two per-
sons in the face of two strangers, after he was
accused ? It is so strange an evidence, that no
man alive can believe it to be truth. Look
you, gentlemen, persons that go to contrive
such things as these are, go in secret, and hope
they should never be discovered, but by oue of
themselves. Who would contrive when two be
by ? and, if they say true, might see them as
well as bear them ? though they did contradict
one another in their evidence ; the one said he
was above, the other said he was below ; the
one said he might see them, the other not.
Look you, gentlemen, I do see that they do lay
some stress upon this, that he was bis debtor,
for that- they seem to prove by their witnesses;
but you must lay no great stress upon that at all,
for the money were not quit if sir Thomas were
found goilty ; the money is due to the king then
he saves nothingby it, his money must be paid ;
let the prisoner be found Guilty, or not Guilty it
kail one jo him. You must consider this case,
gentlemen : if you believe these men are perjured
men, and have gone and contrived a malicious
design against a man's life, then God forbid they
shouldbe believed anyway : but it is a positive evi-
dence ; and it isnot an evidence barely of itself,
but introduced by a great many circumstances
that went before ; they tell you the whole affair
that it does seem they have been privy to the
affairs of these Jesuits all along; and sir Tho.
Gascoigae's house hath it seems abounded with
them ; he hath been very beneficial to that sort
of people, mighty charitable, as they call it, in
superstition ; and you must consider, that too-
thing can seem strange te them that will be
1
1043] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chablbs II. 1680.— Triaf qf Elizabeth Cellier, [1014
ridden by priests ; <hey pot them upon all the
immoralities and villainies that can be found
out for the cause of religion, as they call it;
nothing can seen) strange that is testified against
them. Therefore I must leave it to you, upon
what you have heard; and upon their credit,
whether you believe the witness or not.
Just. Jones. Ay, it b left upon their credit
that are your own countryraeu, better known
to you than us.
Just. DolBen. Look you, sir Thomas Hodsou,
and the gentlemen of the jury, if you will come
in again in any time we will stay in court, other-
wise you must lie by it all night, for we can
take no privy verdict in this case.
Just. Pemberten. Ay, we will stay aadhstr
motions a little while.
Then the jury withdrew from the bar, and
after half an hour returned again, and being
called over gave their verdict thus :
CI. of the Cr. Sir Thomas Gnsooigne, hold
up thy hand. Look upon the prisoner: How
say you? Is he Guilty of the High-Treato*
whereof he stands indicted, or Not Guilty?
Foreman. Not Guilty.
CI. of ike Cr. Did he fly for it ?
Foreman. Not that we know of.
Then the Verdict was recorded, and tbr
Court rose.
265. The Trial pf Elizabeth Cellier, at the KingVBench, for
High Treason: 32 Charles II. a. d. 1680.
ously consulted and agreed to bring the said
lord the king to death and final destruction, and
to depose and deprive him of his crown sad
government, and so introduce and establish lie
Romish religion in this kingdom; and tat
sooner to fulfil and effect the same most wicked
treasons and traiterous imaginations and pur*
poses, the said Elizabeth Cellier, and other an*
known traitors, then and there did contribute,
pay and expend divers great sums of money to
several unknown persons, to procure them
traiterously to kill the said king, and introduce
the Romish religion in this realm ; and for the
better concealing of the treasons aforesaid, the
said Elizabeth Cellier then and there did p»T
and expend to divers other persons unknown,
divers other stuns of money, f*lsly to impose tat
said treasons upon tome other persons un-
known, against the duty of her allegiance, sue
against the peace of our lord the king, his crown
and dignity, and again&t the form of the statute
in such case made and provided, &c."
AFTER the Jury were sworn, the clerk of the
crown read the Indictment, viz:
The jurors of our lord the king do present,
that Elizabeth Cellier, wife of Peter Cellier,
late of the parish of St. Clement Danes in the
county of Middlesex, gent, stands indicted,
for that she as a false traitoress against our
most illustrious and excellent prince, king
Charles 2. her natural lord, not having God be-
fore her eyes, not weighing the duty of her al-
legiance ; but by the instigation of the devil
moved and seduced, and the cordial love and
true due natural obedience which all faithful
subjects of our said lord the king towards him
should bear, and of right are bound to bear,
utterly withdrawing, and devising, and with all
her might intending the peace and common
tranquillity of this kingdom to disturb, and
to bring and put our said lord the king to death
and final destruction, and the true worship of
God in this realm by the law established and
used, to alter to the superstition of the church of
Rome ; to move and stir up war against the
king ia this kingdom, and to subvert the govern-
ment of this realm ; the 1st day of November,
in the 31st year of the said king's reign, at the
parish of St. Clement Dane aforesaid, when
divers other false traitors unknown, traiter-
ously did compass, imagine, and intend the
killing, death and final destruction of our said
lord the king, and to change, alter, and utterly
to subvert the ancient government of this realm,
and to depose, and wholly to deprive him the
•aid king of his crown and government of this
kingdom, and to extirpate the true religion
within i his realm established, and so fulfil and
accomplish the same most wicked treasons and
traiterous imaginations and purposes, the same
Elizabeth Cellier, and other false traitors un-
known, the said 1st day of November, in the
81st year aforesaid, with force and arms, &c.
at the parish of St. Cltment Danes aforesaid,
advisedly, devilishly, maliciously, and traiter-
ously assembled, united, and gathered them-
selves together, and then and there devilishly,
advisedly, maliciously, cunningly, aud traiter-
John Gad bury sworn.
X. C. J. (frir William Scroggs.) Mr. Gad-
bury. What de you know coucernnig thtf
plot ?
Gadbury. I know uoihing of it, neither one
way nor another. .
i. C. J. Do you know of any contrivance oi
Mrs. Cellier'* to kill the king?
Gadkury. No, rather the contrary.
L. C. J. Do you know of any attempt* »
change the government ?
' Gadbury. 1 will tell your lordship what I do
know, if these gentlemen will not be too mauw
for me. I have suffered a great deal of preju-
dice of late io relation to a plot, as if * «■■
known of a plot ; but God is my witness, *
know of none, unless it were a plot to bring , tft
Robert Peyton over to the king's interest Tost
plot I had some concern in, and had sou*
knowledge of Mrs, Cellier's concera in j* \ ■£■
she was so fijr from doing any thing against the
king's interest, that she was willing l0 *}""£
over with him the three gentlemen tufo•ffl0,,,
6
1045]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Crakles II. l68(W&r High Treason.
{1044
of commission when sir Robert was. So that :
how she could be acting for the king and
against the king at the same time, I do not
understand.
X. C. J. Mr. Gadbury, you are n man oT
learning, pray will you give your testimouy of
the things that you know iu relation to Mrs.
Cellier.
Gadbury. Mrs. Cellier was not committed
upon my accusation; therefore, 1 hoped she
might have been tried without uiy testimony.
But when I was in danger of my life, when I
lay in the Gate-house, Mrs. Cellier was re-
ported to be a third witness against me, and
then I raked up every trifle; but if 1 had
thought it treason, I would have discovered it
before. And as to that particular business
concerning Mr. Smith, that Smith some time
since did come to me, being my old acquaint-
ance, to ask my advice in his affairs; and be
had an affair of so great moment, that it was
■ necessary to ask my advice in it, which was to
gp to the lords in the Tower. I asked him,
what to do? Saith he, I can say enough against
Dr. Oates to serve them, and take off his evi-
dence, and asked me if he should do it. By
no means, Mr. Smith, said I. Mrs. Cellier
afterwards told me this Smith and one Phillips
were willing to tell some stories or other of Mr.
Oates and Mr. Bedloe, and I told her this very
story; saith she, You being acquainted with
him, it is possible you, may do some good upon
him; and saith she, I had as lieve as 10 gui-
neas that you could do it.
L. C. J. That is, when that you advised Mr.
Smith not to meddle with any thing against Dr.
Oates.
Gadbury. She said, she did not care if she
had been at the charge of 10 guineas, if he
would be honest and discover the ttuth. And,
my lord, she did say she had heard Mr. Danger-
field talk of a Nonconformists Plot that would
off the Popish Plot.
X. C. J. Did she say that she had heard
Dangerfield say there was a Nonconformists
Plot, and that he was to have a commission
among them r And did she say, that she* had beard
him say, that be hoped under the colour of that
the Popish Plot would go on ? Or did she say
it of her own accord, that slie hoped that would
carry on the Popish Plot ?
Gadbury. My lord, I cannot remember par-
ticulars.
X. C. J. There is a great deal of difference
between Dangerheld's saying it, and her say-
ing it.
Gadbury. I have no reason to spare her:'
But I am unwilling to speak any tiring that is
contrary to troth, though she hath done me
the greatest injury in the world.
X. C. J. How come you to taJk of a Noncon-
formists Plot.
Gadbury. It was only common discourse,
as it was at coffee houses.
Just. Raymond. Had you heard of it before she
spake of it, that you say it was common*
Gadbury. No, not lill she spake of it.
X. C. J. Did Mrs. Celier tell you of any po-
pish priests or Jesuits coming hither from be-
yond the sees?
Gadbury. Upon the going over of one Clay, I
think she did say she heard there were some
more coming over.
X. C. J. What to do ?
Gadbury. God knows what.
X. C. J. Did she speak of any Plot or contriv-
ance to kill the king.
Gadbury. No, she was always an enemy to
Plots, or else 1 would not have kept her com-
pany.
X. C. J, Did she say there were, or that she
heard there were several priests and Jesuits
coming over.
Gadbury. My lord, I think she said she heard
it. And 1 have said several times to her, the
popish Plotters would be destroyed : But she
answered, she was afraid the nation would be
destroyed first.
X. C. J. Did she say she was afraid of it, or
that the nation would be destroyed first r I ask
you once more, we must try people according
to their oaths. By tlie oath you have taken,
when you said you thought the popish Plotters
would be destroyed, what answer did sbemuke ?
Gadbury. She said she was afraid the nation
would be so ; because she said, abundance of
the best of the nation went into other nation*,
to weaken our nation, and spend their money,
and therefore she was afraid the nation would
be destroyed before them.
X. C. J. What discourse bad you with Mrs.
Cellier passing through Westminster-Abbey ? -
Gadbury. My lord, my memory hath been
exceedingly bruised ; but I remember, my lord
as I was going through the Abbey in a rainy after-
noon, she said this Abbey was formerly filled with
Benedictine monks, or something to that pur-
pose; and, saith she, what if it should be so
again?
X. C. J. Are you a protestant or a papist ?
Gadbury. A Protestant, my lord.
X. C. J. .He talks as like a papist as can be,
was it, * what if it should be filled ?' •
Gadbury. She said, what if it should be
again ?
X. C. J. What did you say to that?
Gadbury. I only smiled to hear » woman's
discourse, my lord
X. C. J. You make all the company laugh :
What did she say of the Temple r
Gadbury. That the Temple had been; filled
with friers too.
X. C. J. And what then ? Did she talk of
filling it again ?
Gadbury. Saith she, this place was filled
with Benedictine monks, and the Temple with
friers.
X. C.J. This may do well enough : But what
did she say else coocering the Temple t
Gadbury. Nothing, my lord. .
Serj. Maynard said something to him here,
which was not heard, but,
Mr. Gadbury re died, Mr. Serjeant, I was
none of the tribe el forty-ooe.
1017] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. mo.— Trial qf Elizabeth Ccllkr, [IMS
Here Mr. Gadbury was going to read in his
Paper ; but the court told him thai would not
be allowed ; but be might refresh his memory
with it.
X. C. J. Now tell me what she said; Mr.
Gad bury keep it jn your hand.
Gadbury. My lord, she put it by way of
interrogation to feel my poise.
X. C.J. What did she else?
Gadbury. There was nothing but transient
discourse, my lord.
X C. J. We mast ask you what the truth is,
and you have looked upon your paper. Now
consider what you say, and consider that you are
upon a solemn occasion, and are to testify it
in the presence of God Almighty. I would
have you tell plainly what it is, and neither to
make ii more, nor stifle it.
Gadbury. It was only transient discourse.
X. C. J Say what it was. Was it, * This
place was once filled with Benedictine monks V
Gudbury. She said that the Abbey had been
filled with Benedictine .monks, as the Temple
hud with friers.
Just. Jones. Look upon your paper.
X.^ C. J. You have looked upon the paper,
and pray tell us what she said. Did she say she
hoped to see this place filled with Benedictines ?
. Gadbury. My lord, I do not remember that
word 'hope.'
X.C. J. How long have you been acquainted
with Mrs. Cellier ? *
Gadbury. Ten or a dozen years.
X. C. X Did she never ask you any ques-
tions about the life of the king ?
Gadbury. My lord, when the king was very
ill at Windsor, and all the people were fear-
ful that he would die, she did move the
question to me.
X. C. J. What question ?
Gadbury. To know, whether I thought his
majesty would live or die ? But it was her fear
that he would die.
X. C. J. Had you seen the king ?
Gadbury. No, wy lord.
X. C. J. How then did she expect you should
give her an answer? From your art ?
Gadbury. From my art, my lord !
X. C. J. Did she desire you to consult your
art, how long the king would live ?
Gadbury. She did as I said.
X. C. J. What did you say to that?
Gadbury. I would not tell her, because he
was my sovereign.
X. C. J. What answer did you make ?
Gadbury, I» told her I would not meddle
with it.
X. C. J. She would have had you consult
your art or scheme, or whatever it is, to know
whether the king would live or die ?
Gadbury. It was something of that.
X. C. X And you said you would not med-
dle nor make with it ?
Gadbury. Yes, my lord.
X C. f. She desired you to make a scheme ?
Gadbury. No, my lord, I can't say She men-
tioned a bcheme, but she asked the question.
Just. Raymond. What did she ask else ?
Gadbury. Only that question.
X. C J. How often do you believe she spake
of it.
Gadbury. Never, ray lord, but when bewii
ill. I will not baffle any thing that may con-
duce to the safety of the king and kingdom.
X. C. J. Indeed it is very conducible to the
safety of the king and kingdom, if any p>
about to destroy him, and with evil inientioas
to ask how long he will live, and you ought in
duty to God and youc sovereign to declare it
Did she ever make any enquiries about the
king's death more than what you have said?
Gadbury. No more, my lord ;. and then sbi
was fearful he would die.
X. Q. J. Did tihe say she would go to some-
body else ?
Gaibury. My lord, when she perceived me
shy, she said, I see you are afraid of me, I will
go to some other astrologer.
X. C. J. For what ?
Gadbury. To satisfy her curiosity, as a great
many do.
X. C. J. What curiosities did she ask besides
this ?
Gadbury. She would ask me sometimes
about the condition of bodies, whether they
would be prosperous in the world, and several
other questions.
X. C. J. Were you nice in these curio-
sities ?
Gadbury. Truly, my lord, I was shy of med-
dling with any thing, when I heard there was s
talk about plots.
X. C. J. Was you nice to give her satisfaction
according to her hopes concerning these ibingi
you call curiosities, questiouiog whether one
should be well wed, how many children she
should have, &c. Were you scrupulous in that?
Gadbury. I think I might not be nice in that-
very particular.
X. C. J. How came it, then, that she wooM
go to another astrologer ?
Gadbury. She asked me something about
Mr. Dangerfield.
X. C. J. For what ?
Gadbury. How to get him out of prison.
X. C. J. Pray how came she to say she
would go to another astrologer ? you were not
shy to give her an answer to these questions ?
Gadbury. It was something about Mr*
Dangerfield, my lord, she asked me something
about some deeds or papers which he W**J"
search for, or seize, which concerned Mr. Bed-
low.
X. C. J. '■She had better have gone to one of
the clerks than to a conjurer for them. But
why would she go to another astrologer?
Gadbury. Because I was shy.
X. C. J. You were not shy in these thing*
about Bedlow. Did she not say, when you re-
fused to meddle with the death of the king, tost
she would go to another astrologer ?
Gadbury. Yes, my lord. . ,
X. C. J. Did you any thing for her «« cW
time ?
,1049]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1050
Gadbury. My lord, I did calculate a scheme
which since 1 found to he for Mr. Danger-
field, but I knew not for whom it was when I
did it.
X. C. J. How ! Can you apply one scheme to
any body?
Gadbury. My lord, when Mrs. Cellier came
tome, she gave me the time of a person's nati-
vity, and I set the figure of the heavens to that
aigu, to know whether he were a person fit to
be trusted, her husband being a French Mer-
chant, to get in money.
X. C. J. For ought you know, Dangerfield
was a woman, and the question was, whether
Dangerfield was with child, and he*happens to
l>e a man. How did it fall oat ?
Gadbury. I have forgotten, tny lord.
' X. C. J. When did you know it was for Dan-
gerfield ?
Gadbury. My lord, never before I came be-
fore the king and council ; neither did I know
bis name before, for he went by the name of
Willoughby before.
X. C. J. What other discourse bad you with
ber ? Did she not at anytime talk of Mr. Dug-
dale ?
Gadbury. She did say she had heard of some
people that were to discourse with Mr. Dug-
dale ; she had heard such a thing, but I do
not know whether she knew any thing of it,
or no.
X C. J. What discourse had you about that ?
Gadbury. She told me there was a woman
to go down to Windsor to beg Mr. Dugdale's
pardon, for he was penitent for what he had
aaid in some trial or other.
* X. C. J. Call another witness.
Alt. Gen.9 (Sir Creswel Levinz.) Mr. Dan-
gerfield, pray give the court an account of
what you know of Mrs. Cellier, the prisoner at
the bar.
Mrs. Cellier. My lord, I except against that
witness.
X. C. J. Why so ? You must shew some
reason, and then we will do you justice in God's
name.
Mrs. Cellier. If I can prove he was whipped
and transported, pilloried, perjured, &c. he is
no witness. The last lime I was upon my trial
he threatened some of my witnesses, that if they
would not swear as he would have them, he
would kill them.
X. C. J. If you can shew any record where-
by he is convicted of any thing that can by law
take away his testimony, do it.
Mrs. Cellier. He has been indicted for bur-
glary.
X. C. J. (To Mr. Dangerfield) Was yod in-
dicted for burglary ?
Mr. Dangerfield. I will take it at their proof.
Ralph Briscoe, a witness for the defendant,
sworo.
X C. J. Do yon know Dangerfield ?
Briscoe. 1 remember one Thomas Danger-
field : I saw him burnt in the band at the Old-
Bailey,
X. C. J. Is this the same man f
Briscoe. I do believe it it the
same man
but I have not seen him these several years. '
X. C. J. Let every body have their right,
in God's name. Have you any more ?
Mrs. Cellier. My lorn, I can prove him per*
jured.
X. C. J. Have you any records to shew he
was perjured ? Is he convicted ?
Mrs. Cellier. No.
X. C J. Then you cannot do it.
Mrs. Cellier. My lord, 1 can prove him
guilty of forgery. .
X. C. J. If you do not produce the record,
you do nothing. t
Mr. Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies.) Tba(
which she calls forgery, is not that which the
law calls forgery ; it is counterfeiting Guineas.
X. C. J. Can you shew he forged any deeds ?
Ifyou can prove that he hath committed for-
gery, and be not convicted, it is no error.
X. C. J. Have you your pardon ? she bath
proved the conviction of felony, prove your
pardon.
Mrs. Cellier. I have the copies of several
records here in court, which will be sworn to.
* To which Mr. Dangerfield pleaded his ma-
jesty's roost gracious pardon. To which Mrs.
Cellier replied. That she had a copy of the
said pardon in court, but it did not extend to
some of the crimes for which he stood convict-
ed ; and then produced a record, wherein it did
appear he was outlawed upon a felony. Upon
which the court commanded Mr. Daugerneld
to go and fetch his pardon ; in the interim exa-
mining several of the king's witnesses.
Thomas Williamson sworn.
X. C. J. Did you ever see Dangerfield and
Mrs. Cellier in com pony P
Williamson. No, my lord, but I have been
employed for Mrs. Cellier in several bdsme&se*
of charity to get prisoners out. When Mr.
Dangerfield was in Newgate, she employed ine
to get hiui out. v
L. C. J. Why was she so kind to Danger-
field? *
Williamson. My lord, I don't know that ;
but she bid me get him . out whosoever staid
behind.
Justice Raymond. Why should she get him
out ? Did she tell you what she wonld do with
him when she had him out .*
Williamson. No, my lord.
Recorder. We bring him for a witness, that
she had a great kindness for Dangerfield.
Margaret Jenkens sworn.
X. C. J. What discourse have you heard be*
tween Dangerfield and Cellier?
Jenkins, I never saw them together but
twice. It is a year since I came from them.
X. C. J. When you saw them at dinner or
supper together, what other company was
there ?
Jenkens. Her husband was with her one
time.
1051] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1C80— Trial *f Ebabctk Cellier, [1051
X. C. X What did they talk about ?
Jenkens. They were talking about the pri-
soners that were condemned.
X. C. J. Where was it, at her house ? *
Jenkens. No, at my lady Powis's house.
X. C. X How cam* you there ?
Jenkens. I carried notes backwards and for-
wards.
X. C. J. Did you never hear no discourse
about the Plot ? — Jenkens. No.
Susan Edwards sworn.
Recorder. What intimacy have you known
between Dangerfield and Mrs. Cellier ?
X. C. X Did you ever see them together ?
Edwards. Yes, very often, my lord. She said,
That the Popish Plot would turn to a Presby-
terian Plot..
X. C. X Who did she say that to ? To Dau-
gerfield t
Edwards. No, my lord ; but I have heard
him say those words, and that he would make
it his interest it should be so.
X. C. J. What did you say to him, when he
said he must turn rogue and discover all their
Plots ?
Edwards. I said, he would be no greater
rogue than he was before.
X. C. X You were pretty nimble with him.
Edwards, He thought he should be hanged.
X. C. X For what ?
Edwards. If he did not tarn rogue he thought
he should be hanged.
Edwards to Mrs. Cellier. You were very
often together in your chamber.
Mrs. Cellier. Who gave you your clothes ?
Edwards. Her husband was gone to church
one morning, aud he was with her in her
chamber.
X. C. X I can't see why ,you should prove
this matter too far.
Recorder. Susan is a civil young woman.
Edwards. She said she would do my busi-
ness for me, and I go in danger of my life.
Bennet Dorvdal sworn.
X. C. X What da-you know of any intimacy
between Dangerfield and Mrs. Cellier ?
Dotodal. I have seen them together.
X. C. X What did they talk about?
Dowdal. Mrs. Cellier proposed a match be-
tween Mrs. Mary Ayrey and I, and they used
to talk of that when I waa with them.
X. C.J. Did they talk of the Plot at any
time ?
Dowdal. No.
X. €. X Did you ever hear them talk of the
king? — Dowdal. No.
X. C. X Have you any more ?
Recorder. Not till Mr. Danger field comes.
X. C. X to Mrs. Cellier. Have you any Re-
cord to shew he was put in the pillory ?
Mrs. Cellier. Yes, my lord.
rUpon which the copy of a Record from
Salisbury was read, of his standing on the pil-
lory for uttering counterfeit guineas : As also a
copy of a Record of an Outlawry for Felony.]
X. C. X What say you to this outlawry ?
Recorder, It is not the same person.
X. C. J. We ought to be very careful ia
these concerns, else we may do a work this
day may make all the kingdom rue it. It is a
sad thing that people of a vicious profligate life,
both before they came to Newgate, and all
along in their life-time, should be suffered to
be witnesses to take away the life of a woman.
I question whether he will come again or no, be
hath been gone a great while. Such are fit to
be employed to find out, but hard to be be-
lieved when they find out.
X. C. X Captain Richardson, is this the roan
that broke Chelmsford gaol ?
Capt. Richardson, My lord, I can say no-
thing to that, but he was brought by an Habeas
Corpus from thence to me.
X. C. X Was he burnt in the hand lor fe-
lony ?
Capt. Richardson. Yes, my lord, I believe
he was.
X. C. X He made me believe as though he
would fly, I believe he is. We will not hood-
wink ourselves against such a fellow as this,
that is guilty of so notorious crimes. A man
of modesty, after he hath been in the pillory,
would not look a man in the face. It appears
that after he hath been burnt in the hand, he
hath been outlawed for felony, and so it cloth
appear by Record.
[After about half an hour's stay, Mr. Dan-
gerfield returned and brought his Pardon ;
which was read, and the word Felony omitted ;
and instead of * Utlagaria quuliaeunque pro fe*
* loniis quibuscunque,' there was only inserted,
* Omnia roalencra et utlagaria qualiacunqoe ;'
which omission had made the Pardon defec-
tive, it being my Lord Chief Justice's opinion
that the word 'Utlagaria' did only reach to
Outlawries between party and party; by
which his Evidence was wholly laid aside.*]
't ' ■ ' * *
* In the second volume of Mr. Hargrave's
Juridical Arguments and Collections, p. 321, is
a very elaborate and learned argument on the
effect of the king's pardon of perjury ; in which
the law respecting the king's power or preroga-
tive of pardoning, is investigated with very
greet ability. Of the Case before us, Mr. Har-
grove writes thus :
" Another authority is the opinion of lord
keeper North, whilst Chief Justice of the Com-
mon Pleas, or rather of him and the other
judges present. It appeal's in the trial of Mr.
Nicholas Reading [ante p. 959, of this vo-
lume.] The trial was before Commissioners) of
Oyer and Terminer in April 1679. It was one
of the trials on account of the Popish Plot, as it
was stiled. Mr. Readiug was indicted for cor-
ruptly endeavouring to persuade Wm. Bedlow,
so notorious as one of the principal witnesses
in that mysterious and unintelligible business,
not to give evidence against lord Stafford and
other Roman Catholics. After fiedlow's being
for some time under examination; Mr. Read-
10SS]
STATE TRIAUS, 32 Charles II. 16S0.— Jfcr High Trea*m.
[1054
£. C J. to Mr. Dangerfield. Such fellows I
as you are, sirrah, shall know we are not afraid
of you. He produces us here a Pardon by the
name of Thomas Dangerfield of Walt ham, and
aays, his father and kinsman are both of that
oiame and place. > Will you hare him sworn,
whether bis lather or cousin Thomas were ever
convicted of felony i It is notorious enough
what a fellow this is, he was in Chelmsford
gaol. I will shake all such fellows before I
have done with them. Have you any more to
t*y ? are there any Waltham men here f
Dangerfield My lord, this is enough to dis-
courage a man from ever entering into an honest
principle.
L. C. J. What ? Do you with all mischief
that hell hath in you, think to brave it in a
court of justice ? I wonder at your impudence,
that you dare look a court of justice in the face,
After having been made appear so notorious a
villain.
ing, to disqualify Bed low from further testimony,
asked him, whether he had not laid in provi^
srions of fire to burn the city of Westminster.
This question was objected to, because it was
snaking Bedfow the accuser of himself. It was
also objected to, because he had the king's
pardon. To this latter objection, Mr. Reading
answered, that though the king's pardon re-
mitted the punishment, it did not hinder ob-
jecting to invalidate his testimony : and that,
'notwithstanding the pardon, he was not a law-
ful witness. But Mr. Reading was informed
by lord North, that there was this dilemma
against the question. If Bedlow had not a
pardon he was in danger of death from answer-
ing the question. If he bad a pardon, it took
away as well ail calumny, as liableness to pu-
nishment, and so- set him right against all.
Accordingly Bedlow was held to be a lawful
witness at all events ; and his examination pro-
ceeded.
" The next authority I find is the opinion of
the King's- bench, on the trial of Mrs. Cellier
for high treason at the bar of that court in
Tria. Term, 1080. Mrs. Cellier was one of
those accused as a party to the Popish Plot in
the htter stage of the dic.graceful prosecutions
on that account. Dangerfield, a man of the
most infamous character, was adduced as a
witness to prove' the charge. But it was ob-
jected agqinst his being received as witness,
that he had been several times convicted of
cheating, and had been set upon the pillory,
and had been whipped : and when he would
have produced a pardon of those offences, Mrs.
Cellier produced against him a conviction of
felony, upon which he had been burnt in the
band, and an outlawry for another felony; and
both the conviction and the outlawry were out
of the pardon ; and his testimony wm set aside.
This is the account in sir Thomas Raymond's
Reports, 369 : and the court's refusal of
Pangerfield as a witness appears also in the
trial printed in the State Trials. But sir
Thomas Raymond, who was a judge of the
Justice Jones. Indeed, if he be the same
roan, he is not fit for a witness.
L. C. J. And that he is the same mail h very
notorious. Come, Mrs. Cellier, what have you
more to say ?
Mrs. Cellier. Enough, my lord.
X. C. J. You have said enough already.
Come, geutlemen of the jury, this is a plain
case ; here is but one witness in a case of trea-
son, and that not direct ; therefore lay your
heads together.
[Which being done, they returned ber Not
Guilty : Upon which the Clerk of the Crown
bid her down on her knees ; which she did, and
cried, God bless the king and the duke of
York.*]
JL C\ J. Where is Dangerfield? Is he gone?
Call him.
Who being come, the Court asked if he had
bail for his good behaviour ?
King's- bench at the timo, adds what is not
noticed in the printed trial, namely, that it was
debated, whether, in case of conviction of a
felony, a pardon would restore the person to be
a good witness : and that Lord Chief Justice
Scroggs and himself were of opinion against
the pardon's restoring the credit. However,
sir Thomas adds, that the judges Jones and
Do) hen were contra : and that, on considering
lord Hobart's Report of the before-mentioned
Ca9e of Cuddington and W ilk ins, he sir Thomas
Raymond came over to their opinion. ~ What
nlso very much detracts from the weight of
Scrogga's opinion is, that, though in the early
trials for the Popish Plot he acted like a zealot
in the cause of the prosecutions ; yet having
afterwards discovered the aversion of the king
and courtiers to the prosecutions, he became a
convert to tlieir side of the question ; and in
the latter trials, one of which was that of Mrs.
Celiier, he was as bitter and outrageous against
the crown witnesses, as he had before been
against the prisoners. Of such a judge the
opinions deserve little attention. Whoever also
reads the Trial of Col man in the State Trials, and
the Trial of Mrs. Cellier in the same work, will,
I presume, sufficiently see the justice of this
eensure; and will easily give credit to the se-
vere character Mr. Roger North in hit
Bxatnen, notwithstanding nil his strong preju-
dices for the king and court, exhibits of Scroggs
on the same account ; and will not be sur-
prized, that Soroggs's gross behaviour on the
Trials for the Popish Plot should form one of
the articles for which he was impeached by the
Commons in January 1680-1."
This Case of Cellier is considered in other
parte of Mr. Hargrove's learned argument. See
p. 263, 268, of the volume above referred to.
Some account of Scruggs will be found ia. a
Note to the Proceedings against the latter in
this same year, 1680, infra.
* See her Trial for a Libel in September fol-
lowing.
1051] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1080.— Trial of Elisabeth Cellier, [1053
X. C. X What did they talk about ?
Jenkens. They were talking about the pri-
soners that were condemned.
X. C. J. Where waa it, at her house ? *
Jenkens: No, at my lady Powis's house.
X. C. J. How cam* you there ?
Jenkens. I carried notes backwards and for-
wards.
X. C J. Did you never hear no discourse
about the Plot ? — Jenkent. No.
Susan Edwards sworn.
Recorder. What intimacy have you known
between Dangerfield and Mrs. Cellier ?
X. C. X Did you ever see them together ?
Edwards. Yes, very often, roy lord. She said,
That the Popish Plot would turn to a Presby-
terian Plot..
X. C. X Who did she say that to ? To Dan-
gerfield }
Edwards. No, my lord ; but I have heard
him say those words, and that he would make
it his interest it should be so.
X. C. J. What did you say to him, when he
said he must turn rogue and discover alt their
Plots ?
Edwards. I said, he would be no greater
rogue than be was before.
X. C. X You were pretty nimble with him.
Edwards. He thought he should be hanged.
X. C. J. For what ?
Edwards. If he did not tarn rogue he thought
he should be hanged.
Edwards to Mrs. Cellier. You were very
often together in your chamber.
Mrs. Cellier. Who gave you your clothes P
Edwards. Her husband was gone to church
•ne raoruing, and he was with her in her
chamber.
X. C. J. I can't see why (you should prove
this matter too far.
Recorder. Susan is a civil young woman.
Edwards. She said she would do my busi-
ness for me, and I go in danger of my life.
Bennet Dowdal sworn.
X. C. X What do-70U know of any intimacy
between Dangerfield and Mrs. Cellier ?
Dowdal. I have seen them together.
X, C. J. What did they talk about ?
Dowdal. Mrs. Cellier proposed a match l>e-
tween Mrs. Mary Ayrey and I, and they used
to talk of that when I waa with them.
X. C..J. Did they talk of the Plot at any
time?
Dowdal. No.
X. €. J. Did you ever hear them talk of the
king ? — Dowdal.' No.
Z. C. J. Have you any more ?
Recorder. Not till Mr. Dangerfield comes.
X. C. J. to Mrs. Cellier. Have you any Re-
cord to shew he was put in the pillory ?
Mrs. Cellier. Yes, my lord.
rUpon which the copy of a Record from
Salisbury was read, of his standing on the pil-
lory for uttering counterfeit guineas : As also a
copy of a Record of an Outlawry for Felony.}
X. C. J. What say you to this outlawry i
Recorder, It is not the same person.
X. C. X We ought to be very carsfal ia
these concerns, else we may do a work this
day may make all the kingdom rue it. It is a
sad thing that people of a vicious profligate lift,
both before they came to Newgate, and all
along in their life-time, should be suffered to
be witnesses to take away the life of a woman,
I question whether he will come again or do, be
hath been gone a great while. Such are fit to
be employed to find out, but hard to be be-
lieved when they find out.
X. C. X Captain Richardson, is this the nun
that broke Chelmsford gaol ?
Capt. Richardson. My lord, I can say no-
thing to that, but he was brought by an Habeas
Corpus from thence to me.
X. C. J. Was he burnt in the hand for fe-
lony ?
Capt. Richardson. Yes, my lord, I beliefs
he was.
X. C. J. He made me believe as though hi
would fly, I believe he is. We will not hood-
wink ourselves against such a fellow as this,
that is guilty of so notorious crimes. A una
of modesty, after he hath been in the pillory,
would not look a man in the face. It appears
that after be bath beeu burnt in the hand, be
hath been outlawed for felony, and so it dots
appear by Record.
[After about half an hour's stay, Mr. Dan-
gerfield returned and brought his Pardon ;
which was read, and the word Felony omitted;
and instead of ' Utlagaria qualiacunque pro fr*
* loniis quibuscunque,' there was only inserted,
* Omnia male fie ra et utlagaria qualiacunqoe ;
which omission had made the Pardon defec-
tive, it being my Lord Chief Justice's opinwo
that rhe word '* Utlagaria ' did only reach to
Outlawries between party and party; by
which his Evidence was wholly laid aside.*]
* In the second volume of Mr. Hargra?*)
Juridical Arguments and Collections, p. Ml, *
a very elaborate and learned argument on toe
effect of the king's pardon of perjury ; in which
the law respecting the king's power or preroga*
tive of pardoning, is investigated with ferf
great ability. Of the Case before us, Mr. Har-
grove writes thus :
" Another authority is the opinion of lord
keeper North, whilst Chief Justice of the Com-
mon Pleas, or rather of him and the other
judges present. It appears in the trial of Mr.
Nicholas Reading [ante p. 959, of this vo-
lume.] The trial was before Commissioners*
Oyer and Terminer in April 1679. It wM °™
of the trials on account of the Popish Plot, as it
was stiled. Mr. Readiug was indicted t°*<?0Tm
roptly endeavouring to persuade Wro. Bed,off»
so notorious as one of the principal witnesses
in that mysterious and unintelligible busJ.oes^
not to give evidence against lord Stafforda™
other Roman Catholics, After Bedlo* s beiflg
for some time under examination, Mr. Keao-
10S3]
STATE TRIAUS, Sfi Charles II. lrJSO.—Jfcr High Tnmon.
[1054
£. C. J. to Mr. Dangerfield. Such fellows
su yoa are, sirrah, shall know we are not afraid
of you. He produces us here a Pardon by the
name of Thomas Dangerfield of Waltham, and
•ays, his father aod kinsman are both of that
utAme and place. > Wilt you have him sworn,
whether his father or cousin Thomas were ever
convicted of felony ? It is notorious enough
what a fellow this is, he was in Chelmsford
gaol. I will shake all such fellows before I
have done with them. Have you any more to
aay ? are there any Waltham men here ?
Dangerfield My lord, this is enough to dis-
courage a man from ever entering into an honest
principle.
L. C. J. What f Do you with all mischief
that hell hath in you, think to brave it in a
court of justice ? I wonder at your impudence,
that you dare look a court of justice in the face,
ssfter having been made appear so notorious a
villain.
ing, to disqualify Bedlow from further testimony,
asked him, whether he had not laid in provK
aioiis of fire to hum the city of Westminster.
This question was objected to, because it was
snaking Bedlow the accuser of himself. It was
also objected to, because he had the king's
pardon. To this latter objection, Mr. Reading
answered, that though the king's pardon re-
mitted the punishment, it did not hinder ob-
jecting to invalidate his testimony : and that,
notwithstanding the pardon, he was not a law-
ful witness. But Mr. Reading was informed
by lord North, that there was this dilemma
against the question. If Bedlow had not a
pardon he was in danger of death from answer-
ing the question. If he had a pardon, it took
•way as well all calumny, as liableness to pu-
nishment, and so- set him right against alt.
Accordingly Bedlow was held to be a lawful
witness at all events ; and his examination pro-
ceeded.
" The neat authority I find is the opinion of
the King's- bench, on the trial of Mrs. Celiier
for high treason at the bar of that court in
Triii. Term, 1680. Mrs. Celiier was one of
those accused as a party to the Popish Plot in
the htter stage of the disgraceful prosecutions
on that account. Dangerfield, a man of the
most infamous character, was adduced as a
witness to prove the charge. But it was ob-
jected agujnst his being received as witness,
that he had been several times convicted of
cheating, and had been set upon the pillory,
and had been whipped : and when he would
have produced a pardon of those offences, Mrs.
Celiier produced against him a conviction of
felony, upon which he had been burnt in the
hand, and an outlawry for another felony; and
both the conviction and the outlawry were out
of the pardon ; and his testimony was set aside.
This is the account in sir Thomas Raymond's
Reports, 369 : and the court's refusal of
|)angerfield as a witness appears also in the
trial printed in the State Trials. But sir
Thomas Raymond, who was a judge of the
Justice Jone$. Indeed, if he be the same
man, he is not fit for a witness.
L. C. J. And that he is the same man is very
notorious. Come, Mrs. Celiier, what have yoa
more to say ?
Mrs. Ctllier. Enough, my lord.
X. C. J. You have said enough already.
Come, geutlemen of the jury, this is a plain
case ; here is but one witness in a case of trea-
son, and that not direct ; therefore lay your
beads together.
[Which being done, they returned her Net
Guilty : Upon which the Clerk of the Crown,
bid her down on her knees ; which she did, aud
cried, God bless the king and the duke of
York.*]
L. C. J. Where is Dangerfield? Is he gone?
Call him.
Who being come, the Court asked if he had
bail for his good behaviour ?
King's- bench at the time, adds what is not
noticed in the printed trial, namely, that it was
debated, whether, in case of conviction of a
felony, a pardon would restore the person to be
a good witness : and that Lord Chief Justice
Scroggs and himself were of opinion against
the pardon's restoring the credit. However,
sir Thomas adds, that the judges Jones and
Do) hen were contra : and that, on considering
lord Hobart's Report of the be fore- mentioned
Case of Cuddington and Wilkins, he sir Thomas
Raymond came over to their opinion. What
also very much detracts from the weight of
Scroggs's opinion is, that, though in the early
trials for the Popish Plot he acted like a zealot
in the cause of the prosecutions ; yet having
afterwards discovered the aversion of the king
and courtiers to the prosecutions, he became a
convert to their side of the question ; and in
the latter trials, one of which was that of Mrs.
Celiier, he was as bitter and outrageous against
the crown witnesses, as he had before been
agaimt the prisoners. Of such a judge the
opinions deserve little attention. Whoever also
reads the Trial of Col man in the State Trials, and
the Trial of Mrs. Celiier in the same work, will,
I presume, sufficiently see the justice of this
censure; and will easily give credit to the se-
vere character Mr. Roger North in his
Ex amen, notwithstanding all his strong preju-
dices for the king and court, exhibits of Scroggs
on the same account ; and will not be sur-
prized, that Soroggs*s gross behaviour on the
Trials for the Popish Pint should form one of
the articles for whieh he was impeached by the
Commons in January 1680-1/'
This Case of Celiier is considered in other
parts of Mr. Hargrove's learned argument. See
p. 263, 268, of the volume above referred to.
Some account nf Scroggs will be found ia a
Note to the Proceedings against the latter ia
ibis same year, 1680, infra.
* See her Trial lor a Libel in September fol-
lowing.
1055] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. 1680.— Trial of Elizabeth CdUer, [1056
Dangerfield. No, my lord, but with the leave
of the Court I will fetch some.
X. C. J. Let a tipstaff go with him, and re-
turn before the Court rises.
Dangerfield. My lord, that cannot be, for I
can't return so soon.*
L. C. J. Then let him he committed.
Which was accordingly done.
Of this woman's share in what is called the
Meal-Tub Plot,. Hume says nothing, nor does
he say enough of that transaction itself to ena-
ble his readers to form any notion of it. He,
indeed, says,
" The bottom of this affair it is difficult, and
not very material, to discover. It only appears,
that Dangerfield, under pretence of betraying
the conspiracies of the Presbyterians, had been
countenanced by some Catholics of condition,
and had even been admitted to the duke's pre-
tence and the king's. And that under pre-
tence of revealing new Popish Plots, he had
obtained access to Shaftesbury and some of
the popular leaders. Which side he intended
to cheat, is uncertain ; or whether he did not
rather mean to cheat both : but he soon found,
that the belief of the nation was much more
open to a Popish than a Presbyterian Plot ;
and he resolved to strike in with the prevailing
boraour. Though no weight could be laid on
his testimony, great clamour was raised ; ns if
the Court, by way of retaliation, had intended
to load the Prebyterians with the guilt of a
false conspiracy."
Mr. Fox does not even mention it.
Echard gives a long account of it, upon which
Oldmixon criticises with his usual asperity.
Rapin gives the outline of the story. Roger
North writes largely concerning it. The best
account of it with which I have met in any of
the histories is that which Ralph hath compos-
ed from original documents and the narratives
of preceding historians. 1 wilt therefore insert
it, premising Burnet's short account and. Roger
Coke's observation that the Report which
Attorney General sir William Jones (to whom
the examination of the matter had been refer-
red) made of it to the council, upon which they
voted Mansel innocent and Dangerfield guilty,
that this was a design of the papists to lay the
plot to the dissenters charge and a further proof
of the popish plot, was such a crime in Jones
that he was soon after put out of his place and
air Robert Sawyer put in, who would not ven-
ture the loss of his place for such another
report
" A pretended Plot discovered called the Meal-
Tub Plot.
M Dangerfield, a subtle and dexterous man,
who bad gone through all the shapes and prac-
• See the Trial of Robert Francis, for the
Murder of this Dangerfield, infra.
tices of roguery, and in particular was a falsa
coiner, undertook now to coin a plot for the
ends of the papists. He was in jail for debt,
and was in an ill intrigue with one Oilier a
popish midwife, who bad a great share of wit,
and was abandoned to lewdness. She got boa
to be brought out of pribon, and carried bints
the countess of Powis, a zealous managing pa*
pist. He, after be bad laid matters with her,
as will afterwards appear, got into all compa-
nies, and mixed with the hottest men of the
town, and studied to engage others with his>
self to swear, that they bad been invited to ac-
cept of commissions, and that a sew form of
government was to be set up, and that the
king and the royal family were to be seat away.
He was carried with this story first to the duke,
and then to the king, and -had a weekly allow*
ance of money, and was very kindly used by
many of that side ; so that a whisper run aboat
town, that some extraordinary thing would
quickly breakout: And he having some cor-
respondeuce with one col. Mansel. he made op
a bundle of seditious but ill contrived letters,
*and laid them in a dark corner of his room:
And then some searchers were sent from ths
custom house to look for some fbrbiddea
goods, which they heard were in Hansel's
chamber. There were no goods found, bat ss
it was laid they found that bundle of letters;
and upon that a great noise was made of a die*
covery ; but opon enquiry it appeared the let-
ters were counterfeited, and the •forger of them
was suspected; so they searched into all Dan-
gerfield s haunts, and in one of them they found
a paper that contained the scheme of this whole
fiction, which because it was found in a Meal*
Tub came to be called the Meal-Tub Plot
Dangerfield was upon that clapped up, and be
soon after confessed how the whole matter was
laid and managed : In which it is very probable
be mixed much of his own invention with truth,
for he was a profligate liar. This was a great
disgrace to the popish party, and the king
suffered much by the countenance be had gives
him : The earls of Essex and Halifax were set
down in the scheme to be sworn against wits
the rest." Burnet.
" Ralph's Account of the Meal-Tab Plot.
" One Dangerfield (who bad been a compa-
nion with BedTow upon the road, and in prison
for debt} seeing his comrade in such plenty and
esteem by his testimony against the papists *
the plot, knew not better how to introduce
himself be a witness, than by offering his service
to the papists, that he might have some con-
versation with them to pot a colour upon n*
testimony. And it happened, that the laoy
Powis made it her business to collect money
for divers who were thrown into gaol on ac-
count of this plot, or the popish religion ; where-
in Mrs. Oilier, the midwife, was b«r ageot,
who* was a notable, pragmatical woman, ai»o»
by her profession, was acquainted with many
great ladies at court. Mrs. Cdlier, lakisf a
liking to this Dangerfield, and bis debt bcu*
10*7]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Cbables II. 1680.-/or High Trca$on.
[105S
bat small, for which he was in gaol, recom-
mended him to lady Powis's stock, and took
him out, and he turned papist to boot, and pro-
mised to be very officious to serve the papists
%j soliciting for them, by taking notes at trials,
and by going to coffee-houses and other fana-
tical dobs, and discovering designs. His for-
wardness begat great confidence in him, and
be was carried to lady Powis to thank her
for her charity, and gave her many assur-
ances.
Dangcrii eld introduced to the Duke of York.
" I make no doubt but, all this while, -he had
some friends, among the contrary party, that
were able fo help him, and to let him pass
amongst them, and be in some cabals for the
entitling him to some credit. After a little
time he comes big to Mrs. Cellier, with a dis-
covery that the fanatics were batching a rebel-
lion, and that there was to be a sudden rising
in arms, and that himself was to have a com-
mission and be a captain ; that uew counsellors
of state were appointed, and a model of an
army made affecting the design; that, if be might
find credit, he would discover it to the king,
and be a spy upon them, and, in time, get so
far into their councils, as to know where their
treasonable papers lav, which be would reveal,
that they might be seized ; and at last he would
get from them a commission, which he would
produce to detect their .villainies, and preserve
the king. Mrs. Cellier knew not any fitter
person to introduce him than my lady Powis,
who, by reason of her nephew's marriage with,
the earl of Peterborough's daughter, might
brine him to the said earl, in order to be brought
to the duke, to whom he had a great mind
to apply himself, and whose protection he
desired.
The Duke passeth him to the King, and he to
the Secretary.
" Ilis passage was very easy to the duke ;
for these great persons (lord Peterborough and
lady Powis) not imagiuing the villainies of the
world, nor being used to business, were very
greedy of it when it was offered, and thought to
appear very serviceable to the kiag as well as
toe duke by it. But the duke, who had always
lived regularly aud carefully, as soon as the
captain was brought to him (for so he would
be called, saying, that he missed his employ-
ment among the fanatics : he knew the king
would repair him by a commission of tiiat
quality at least ; aud the eail of Peterborough
failed not to treat him in that style) gave him en-
couragement to serve the king, and told him he
woulofinform the king of it, arid he should sud-
denly know the king's pleasure. The captain
was startled at this, and desired the king
might not be acquainted with the business,
until it was more ripe for discovery ; but the
duke professed he would retain no secret from
the king, and bid him wait on the earl of
Peterborough, and he should have an account
of the king's pleasure, The captain was a
TPIU ▼!!»
little troubled at this ; for he had a mind to
transact with, and have frequent access to his
royal highness, and expressed a discontent.
But there was no remedy, and so he was to at-
tend the king's pleasure ; which was, that col.
Halsey should carry him to secretary Coventry,
to whom ho should declare his business, and
receive directions from him as there should be
occasion.
He applies for money* and cut short by the
Secretary.
" He was mm to play bis game as well as he
could, and desired once to be brought to the
king, to whom he declared what confidence the
earj of Shaftesbury had in him; and, «to make
it appear, he produced to the king two letters
of sir Ttichard Bnlstrode, directed to the earl
(how he could come by them is very consider-
able, he said it was by accident, they lying in
a loose drawer in the earl's house.) The king
made no question but that he bad been with
the said earl, but would give him no other di-
rections, but that he should wait upon the se-
cretary, and follow lus orders. Then he pre-
tended want of money, and obtained (a) some
(being in service of this importance ; aud in-
deed, it is the only fit reward for spies) where-
upon he transforms himself into a genteel habit,
and presseth for more money.' But the Secre-
tary began to grow waspish, and told him all
his discovery lay in his own talk ; for tbere wag
no manner of concurrent testimony, nor any
commissions or papers produced, whereof he
had so often talked, and in plain terms told himy
he had more money than he deserved.
Maosel searched, and papers found of the Cap
tain's laying.
"Theuhe pressed for a warrant to search
for papers, and would have bad the duke pro-
cure it ; but he, having been a means to put
this affair into the management of the king's
ministers, would not any way farther concern
himself in it. The captain then would have
had the king command Mr* Secretary to grant
him his wurrant. But the king asking the
Lord Chief Justice North, that casually stood
by, it was told that, unless there was oath to
ground a search, or some circumstances of
pregnant suspicion, it could not be done. This
answer beinggiven, the captain saw tbere was
no way to entrap these men that walk by rule;
he must take some other course to bring him-
self fairly upon the stage, for the time of par-
liament was at hand, which was to be his har-
vest. Hereupon be gets a warrant of course
to search for uncustomed goods ; and searched
colanel Mansel's chamber in such a way, as it
'was plain he took care that there should not
(a) Bishop Burnet says, he had a weekly
allowance : Ferguson, that he had IS/, a week;
but Dangerfield himself acknowledges the re-
ceipt of no more than 20 guineas from the duke,
and 40/, from the king,
3 Y
1059] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chakles II 1680.— Trial qf Elizabeth CcUur, [10GO
want demonstration that the (b) papers were
of bis own laying, by the clear testimony of
the constables ana officers that were with him.
These papers he brings to the Secretary's,
who now thought him in earnest ; and the earl
of Essex put a great value on his discovery,
saying he believed there was something in it,
for Mansel had been his servant, and he was as
ill a roan as could be, and very like to engage
in that kind.
Dangerfield committed for a coiner.
" The (e )— -being of the privy council, and
comiog into Whitehall to a committee of coun-
cil, perceived, at the council stairs, Doyly, an
officer of .the Mint, aud this Dangerfield quar-
reling ; Doyly saying he was a coiner, and the
captain saying he was employed about the
king's business, and vouched Secretary Coven-
try, and this with great earnestness for some
time, stopping his lordship's passage up stairs,
and Doyly said he bad proof against him.
The lord- told him he would inform the
Lords of it, and he was confident they would
not permit any man to shelter himself in White-
hall from the law, especially in so great and so ig-
nominious a crime ; and so went op and sat
in the committee, but did not interrupt the pre-
sent business with a matter of such small con-
sequence, as that quarrel was. But sir Thomas
Doleman, a clerk of the council, came to his
lordship, and told him Doyly bad sent to put
him in mind of the coiner that was below, and
thereupon shewed a false guinea, and under-
took to prove that piece was of that fel-
low's coining. Thereupon his lordship moved
that a messenger, by their order, might seize
him and put him into a justice of peace's hand,
to be examined, and ordered according to law.
The order was given, and the thing presently
done, and secretary Coventry, coming after-
wards, said, smiling, that bis intelligencer was
apprehended for a coiner, but was told, that bis
intelligencer must answer the law ; and so the
captain was carried away and committed.
Sent to Newgate for the abuse of Mansel, and
came off by a Narrative of the Plot.
" Colonel Mansel complained of the abuse
upon him, and, thereupon the captain was sent
for to answer, and pretended to make a de-
fence, but with so much affectation, and ridicu-
lous confidence against the plainest proofs that
ever were, that he was committed by this coun-
cil for this false accusation of colonel Mansel,
and forging the papers ; and he was not wanting
too, in his defence, to shew bow he was admit -
(b) They were nine in number, and were
pinned behind the bed's head : he was forced to
find them himself; and, before he had time to
read the contents, cried out, Here is treason !
Here is treason against his majesty !
(c) By the help of colonel Mansel's and
Danger 6eld's narratives, we find this and the
following blank should be filled up with the
name of Lord Chief Justice North.
ted into the king's presence, and affirmed some
things contrary to the king's own remembrance.
During his being hurried to and fro, Mrs.
Cellier was not wanting to place herself in hit
way, to hearten him, and promise him his part
should be taken ; and he, to rid himself of
some (d) papers, gave them to her, advising
(d) A True and Exact Copy of the Book
found by sir William Waller, at Mrs. Cel-
lier's house, iu the Meal-Tub, on Wednes-
day, October 89, 1679 :
Major A bop's promise to me for a
sion. Mr, Gooding's promise to support D. M.
if banished.
Friday night, the lStbof Septemb. D. Montn.
went to the Sun-Tavern, to converse with
Player (sir Thomas,) and Jencks (another nota-
ble city Exclosionist,) for the settling affairs,
and also a supply for himself, if banished. The
manner of the meeting of four several clubs,
viz. At the King's-Head Tavern, at the Green-
Dragon Tavern, at the Sun-Tavern, and one at
a chandler's-shop in Westminster ; which are
at present employed, as writers and messengers,
into the country ; but, when occasion shall re-
quire, they are to be field-officers. The man-
ner of sending those messengers. The manner
of their meeting, for the better concurrence of
all matters. Their way of contributing, bow
often, and for what purposes it is done. The
posture they were in for a rising in the city, if
his majesty had died. The design of rising in
the North, to join with the Scots; and what
shall occasion that rising there. Gooding's ac-
count of the chief persons and commanders
there among them, viz. lord Shaftsbury, lord
Halifax, lord Radnor, lord Essex, lord Wharton,
D. Buckingham, counsellors; D. Monmouth,
general ; lord Grey, lord Gerrard, and his son,
sir Thomas Armstrong, lieutenant-generals;
Blood, and Waller, to be major-generals. The
field, and other officers, most of them meet at
the several clubs, together with some that are
in the cou ntry . The considerable parties would
come from his majesty's horse and foot-guards,
to join them, when occasion should require.
Alsnp and Gooding promise to introduce me to
lord Shaftsbury, to be employed as a spy, and
to have the promise for a commission. That
only the consent of sir J. P. D. B. sir W. W.
sir It. P. was wanting to give the stroke; but if
they would not comply, it should be done other-
wise, as at the parliaments, &c.
A parchment was seen in the hands of cap-
tain England, by Bed. on Monday the 29nd of
Sept. 79, which was written on in indented let*
ters, These are to authorize, occ. and thirteen
, label-seals to it. This at Blood's Club. On
the same night was a secret cabal held at Blood's
house.
The next, being Tuesday night, was one at
sir W. W's. Gooding told me, a corporal of his
acquaintance, was going to be listed, to disci-
pline men.
Friday the 19th of September, a person was
1061]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— /or High 7Vw*m.
[1068
her co hide them io the meal tub. And the
held a correspondence with him in Newgate ;
and so the mistress of secrets and intrigues was
fast in the trap, and suffered by standing in the
pillory, and the captain was not long in New-
gate, but desired one day to be brought before
■ - ■ J I !■_■■-. II I
aofct from Blood's club to Huntingdon, about
weighty business, and is not yet returned;
which causes some fear of miscarriage.
Sept. 30th, the messenger returned from
Huntingdon, who said, he had finished tbe bu-
siness be went about, and that all that part of
the country was in good readiness.
Saturday, the 5th of October, a cabal met at
Waller's, to consult about the affairs of other
counties ; but particularly, for the present, the
county of Dorset, Devon, and Cornwall ; and,
in order thereunto, two persons were sent away
with great pacquets ; and, in one of them, were
divers papers, like printed warrants ; and names
and seals to tbe same ; but the person who saw
them could not come to read one : My Author
is Alsop.
Monday, the 7th, a cabal n*?t at Waller's, in
order to toe dispatch of divers persons into the
North, and to York city, to a club there, at one
Lee's house, a tallow-chandler. These go into
some part of Scotland too, before they return ;
and yet are obliged to return before the 30tb
of this month. Sir W. VV. promise to B. for a
commission. Lord S. promise of a commission
So, &c. Gooding's promise to me of the list
of 5,000, &c.
Sept. 9. Brown produced a paper to the
company; who all approved of it, but espe-
cially one Desny, who said, * Cursed be the
4 man, whose mind is not suitable to tJfes paper.'
One Mason, at the same place, said, after some
discourse of affairs, That all, within twenty
miles round London, were, ready to strike,
whensoever they should be commanded, and
Chat against the king's interest too ; and said,
it was not tbe French king's pretended inva-
sion should' put them in fear of any army the
king now had, or could raise. It is also re-
solved, that, when any commissions are given
out for the raising an army for the king, that
some of the faction shall privately put in for
employs, in order to the better serving that
party, by the corrupting his majesty's soldiers.
Wit. Curtice.
Wednesday, the 15th of October, I was with
lordS.
Saturday, 19, B. told me, sir W. W. said he
had 300 horse at his command, to oppose an
army that tbe D. and Lauderdale were going to
raise in the North ; and that, if they made not
too much haste, he should have more.'9
But that the reader may be more fully satis-
fied of tbe matter of tbe informations given in
to tbe king (says colonel Maasel, out of whose
narrative this copy is taken) I shall give him
the true copy of a letter sent by Mr. Willougbby
to his majesty :
"Sir; May it please your most sacred ma-
sir (ej Robert Clayton, then Lord Mayor,
where he made affidavit of a long narrative,
and was, from that time, taken to be one of the
principal discoverers of the popish plot. He
accused the lady Powis and the earl of Peter-
borough, and afterwards the Duke of York, of
High-Treason. The king, seeing so long a nar-
rative so soon produced, concluded it had been
meditated and prepared long before ; and that
all his intercourse -at court was only that he
might be admitted into tbe presence of those
persons whom he designed to accuse ; and that
it was but an introduction to his being a wit-
ness to accompany the rest.
How the Earl of Essex was concerned.
«
" But it happened that he had stood in the
pillory, and could be no legal witness, and the
king would, by no address or application, be
induced to (f) capacitate him to testify. So
all his projects failed, though be was as much
caressed, and as much weight laid on his testi-
jesty; On Friday, the 26th of this instant Sep-
tember, was seen by a person whom I employ,
in the hand of one England, a paper, like a hat
of men's names; and a parchment, in the like-
ness of a commission, wjth 1$ label-seals, and
as many names thereto, and at the top was, in
great indenture-letters (viz.) These are to au-
thorise, &c. — I myself was informed, that a
corporal, now in your majesty's foot-guards*
was to be sent into the North, to discipline m
considerable number of men. My author for
this was one Gooding, a nonconformist parson.
— Friday, the 26th, was a person sent with a
packet, very considerable, (supposed to be so
by my friend, who saw the outside thereof) to
Huntingdon: The sajd person is not yet re-
turned, nor to be heard of, which much amazes
the gang he was sent by, and at present puts a
stop to their party.-— It was spoken publicly in
a clubi That all tilings were in a ready posture,
and they only expect your majesty's command
to make the onset ; but, if that be not, it is de-
signed at the sitting of the parliament, if Your
majesty answer not their expectation. — I nave
also discovered a great correspondence between
the same party and tbe Dutch; and believe, at
your majesty's return, to give a* good account
of the same by God's help: Till which time I
shall use my utmost endeavour to make myself,
— Your majesty's most faithful and obedient
subject, Willougbby."
(t) Ferguson asserts, " That, by this dis-
covery, he made it most plainly appear, who set
him on to frame this damnable piece of vil-
lainy; which so nettled tbe conspirators, that
they knew not what to do ; yet procured, that
the mayor, instead of having thanks returned
, him for bis service to king and country, met
with a check at Whitehall, for meddling with
what concerned him not." Growth of Popery
part 2, p. 265.
(f) The Gazette, No. 1458, says, his majes-
ty had granted him a pardon ; but under wl^at
restrictions, is not explained.
IOCS] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— TVUd qf EfoaUth tdtier, [1064
tnony by the anti-court party, bat to nu par-
pose. It was observed there was no man so
eager as the earl of Essex, -to prosecute the
lady Powis, and to make use of him as well as
colonel Mansel, who appeared to be of his side,
to accuse and tax the court of a Sham Plot :
which was wondered at, when he had been so
forward to affirm that he believed there was
reality in it.
" This Dangerfield was bred a clerk, being
an attorney's son, and his rather deeply engaged
in the late times. He could write well, and
was a handsome, proper young fellow, of a
versatile wit ; so that if he should have been
accepted to testify, by probability, he would
have far outgone all the former witnesses."
" The turn here given to this affair, we see,
is, That Dangerfield was a decoy for the exclo-
sionists,and that they themselves were at the bot-
tom of the very intrigue they afterwards so loudly
clamoured against. On the other hand, according
to bishop Burnet, he was a tool of the papists :
and the great drift of the device was, to fasten
a plot on those who had fastened a plot upon
them : whence his lordship takes occasion to
say
" This was a great disgrace to the popish
party, and the king suffered much by the coun-
tenance he bad given him."
" This is certain, that Dangerfild, rogue as
lie was known to be, was subsisted at Cellier's,
at the expeoce of the countess of Powis :
This the lady herself owned at the council-
board ; as also, that he had told her of treason-
able papers laid at Westminster; and that on
the secretary's refusing to grant a warrant to
search for them without an affidavit, Mrs.Cellier
had, in her presence, given the advice of seiz-
ing them by custom-house officers. It is more-
over certain, that the very Gazette, No. 1,458,
sets forth, that . three several persons, one no
friend to Dangerfield, had acknowledged seve-
ral circumstantial matters which strengthened
his evidence : And as certain it is, that the
earl of Castlemaine, the countess of Powis, and
others, were committed on the credit that was
piven to it by the council. On the other hand
it is certain, likewise, that Dangerfield confessed
at the council board, that he had several
times discoursed with the lord Shaftesbury :
And if it is not equally certain, it is extremely
probable that there was an understanding
between them ; there being no other satisfac-
tory way to account for his having those two
letters from sir Richard Bulstrode to that lord,
in his possession : So that the most natural con-
clusion that had been drawn upon the whole, is,
That both parties were equally disposed by any
means whatever, to ruin each other: And that
Dangerfield, with all the dexterity of a master
genius, applied himself to raise contributions
from both. Agreeable to which, the Lord
Chancellor observed to hirn, when before the
council, " That he was a fine fellow, fiist to come
4o his majesty with one story, then to the lord
Powis, and from him to lord Shaftesbury, disco-,
vering to one what discourse he held to another."
What Roger North says more immediately,
concerning this Trial is:
" It is pleasant to observe how that versatile
rogue deluded the midwife Mrs. Cellier, and
indeed several others of the Catholic party ; and
much to that purpose we shall have from the
madam herself. For, however dexterous UK
captain was at his pen, having published various
sorts of narratives (which, by the way, is no
small avails of a discoverer that has the selling
the copies) trenching upon her honour, she was
as good at that sport as himself, and, I think,
out wrote him ; and though her person was ua-
towardly handled, yet she has done right to
her fame in deathless narrative; whence we
may gather, not only the history of her trou-
bles, hut be entertained as with a comedy.
And, in the quality of sacb (which kind of
writing they say shews best the manners of an?
age) I must needs recommend hers. It wilt
be out just to take her own tale of herself, as I
have done the captain's ; though I mast prog-
nosticate somewhat of the tragic also to sac*
ceed ; enough to* feed the humour of a melan-
choly genius, in a lively representation of so
much wickedness and folly as ramped in that
age. As for the gentlewoman's veracity, it is
to be said that she wrote when all the persons
were living that were named or concerned in
her narrative. Therefore it could be no profit
to write what might be straight proved false;
and, in such a circumstance, folks are careful
of what they affirm. She dealt in acts of cha-
rity, and stood much upon her credit with per-
sons of quality and honour, on account of ber
profession, who would not countenance a lixr
in print. For which reasons I make no doabt
of saving, that all she writes of her own dealing
and knowledge, is most likely to be critically
true ; and the rest she believed sincerely to be
so, and, if she faite, it is out of female preju-
dice and fond crcdulky, as will appear. She
was not disproved in any thing, but reflected
on sufficiently, and most of air by her former
friend and admirer the captain ; and Miles
Praunce hath a. fling at her in print. But,
whatever her religion and modesty might pre-
tend to, she did not deserve to be put in a bag
with such fellows as those were.
" She tells first of her having assumed the
charitable post of relieving distressed prisoners,
and procuring their liberties. These were, as
rau*t be presumed, Catholics, and committed
mostly on account of the Plot. She tells us of
strange cries she heard in the dungeon at New-
gate, which she insinuates was Praunce examined
by torture, and she .says he run stark mad in
prison. She names a coachman tormented to
own carrying the body of Godfrey out of town,
where he lives, and may be heard to own it
everyday. She relates other strange cruelties
and barbarities used in that cursed place. She
found here this Willoughby, alias Dangerfield,
fast by the heels for debt. First, she says,
he begged to partake of her charity. His first
service was to draw up articles, setting forth the
1065]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680— for High Treason.
[1006
cruelties of the prison, for which she gave him
St. 6d. t those she presented te the judges ; but
nothing came of it.
u His next employ was to *ift one Strode,
his fellow prisoner, to find out a subornation
of the earl of Shaftsbury, who, as she presumed,
wavabout to launch that Strode for a new
PloT-evidenee : and, upon application, Strode
save encouragement, pretending, by papers be
had, to invalidate Bedlow. The captain's next
work was to filch these papers from Strode,
and, for that end, she sent hiin a narcotic. And
she says that the papers were those that sir
William Waller found in her house upon search.
She adds some affidavits and testimonials about
this Strode, to shew his engagements with
Bedlow. Fellow pedders, it seems. And one
may guess he and Dangerfield were as well ac-
quainted, and these papers were the joint im-
posture of both ; but Strode, being of another
regiment, kept out of this, and left it wholly to
bis fellow.
" Now Dangerfield is out of prison, by Mrs.
Cellier's charity, and, being a lowardly young
fellow, was constituted a waiter upon the Jesuits
at their trial ; for w hich purpose he was put in
good cloaihs, and people wondered what
doable diligent ji? How that was. He was set to
scout and bring her in intelligence of factious
designs, and she tells what she understood was
intended, if the king had died at Windsor. So
she encouraged him to trade on as a spy, and,
at several tunes, he wrote those papers, which
were found in her meal-tub, whereof the reve-
lation is coming forwards. She carried him to
the earl of Peterborough, and he to the duke.
He gave his paper to the duke, and he sent it
to the king, and the king to secretary ( oventry.
Dangerfield whs ordered to go with colonel
Ilalsallto the secretary's to be examined, and
he had 40/. given him. Then he brought word,
in goodearnest, to Mrs. Cellier, of a Plot just
breaking out, hut it seems, in a drunken huff,
he had made a quarrel, and swore be would go
over to the Presbyterians ; but this was hid
from' her. When be pretended the Plot-papers
lodged at Mr. Mantel's, and could not get a
warrant to search, she advised him to the cus-
tom-house way. "
" After that was over, he comes to her in a
most lamentable condition, and tells her he
should be committed to Newgate. Alack a day!
they both wept ; and she sets down the mourn*
fill dialogue betwixt them. He gave her his
Plot-papers, great secrets ! And she, as he
must observe, put them in her meal-tub. And
it was from this cleanly conveyance, the Meal-
Tub- Plot had its denomination ; which single
word is all that the author of oar Complete
History affords of the whole matter. Then
comes sir William Walter, the Middlesex jus-
tice, to search ber house, and would have ber
straight to my lord Shaftsbary ; but, at length,
he took her parole, and let her alone at that
time. But Willoughby sent to her from New-
gate, for relief, in bis great distress. She dis-
patched a servant, to whom be howled, and (to
meet her credulous, fancy) said he had been
tortured. He would have his allowance made
firm to him by writing. She sent him word he
should have his provisions continued, with her
motto, * I never change/ adding some short in-
structions. Then comes again the knight, with
his myrmidons, ransacked her bouse, and, by a
wonderful sagacity, found the papers in the
Meal-tub ; so she was sent to the Gate-bouse.
After this, she was brought to the council to be;
examined, where she down of ber knees to the
king, and begged she might not be tortured.
The king said it could not be done by law.
Then she sets down her examination, by way
of dialogue, most divert ingly. As, for instance,
a certain lord, who spoke often, said nothing,
without — put up your hood, madam. In the end,
she was sent to Newgate, and .there she was
honoured with diverse visits from sir William
Waller. She writes the conversation in dia-
logue, which is an excellent portrait to shew
the method of working a witness ; for it seems
there was great hopes of bringing her to what
was called confessing, or telling all. And, for
that end, Dangerfield, in the same prison, was
permitted to court her at a window some dis-
tance off. That is dialogue also, and a choice
\ piece. He shewed her gold, and moved her to
become the king's evidence, and to swear
a^aiau the duke of York, viz. that his royal
highness gave her the original of the papers in
the Meal- tub ; and that his royal highness bid
her set him to hide those that were found at
Mansel's, and to kill the earl of Shaftsbury ;
telling her what vast advantages she should
have from the lords, who were privy to all.
The next dav, he would have had her to own
that the lord Peterborough gave her the papers,
and that sir Allen Apsley (the duke's servant)
paid her 1,000/. which was to pay her for killing
the king and the earl of Shaftsbury, and for
raising soldiers ; and, at these passages, he
would howl most hideously.
" But, no good coming of this interview, the
windows, (as upon a secret commerce^ dis-
covered) were nailed up. Then she was ex-
amined again, and the dialogue no less co-
mical ; and her servants were brought to
oppose her. She begged the favour of the earl
of Shaftsbury to protect her from sir William
Waller, and she says, that he said many good
things to her. And sir William made her ano-
ther visit, of which she gives the conversation
as before ; the sum of it was to make her a
witness. She was again at the council, and
was always urged to confess, and she was told
that, otherwise, she should die for it. If these
accounts of hers be true, as I see no reason to
doubt them, there never was a woman more
magnanimous and undaunted than she appeared
to be.
" She pressed bard to be tried, and, at length,
in very good earnest, she was brought to the
bar in April 1680, and charged upon an indict-
ment of high treason, for consulting and ex*
' pending money in a Plot to kill the king, and
to raise war for introducing popery, and turn-
1067] STATE TRIALS, 32 ChaKMSs II. 1680.— Trio/ of the Earlgf Catlemahie, [1OG0
ing the Plot on others, and for hiring Danger-
field to kill the king, &c. There were two wit-
nesses produced against ber ; one was Gad bury
the astrologer, who, agreeable to his profession,
courted secrets to credit the stars, lie, as was
said, had been in the same trap with the earl
of Peterborough, but upon terms, to swear
against Cell er, got his pardon ; but when he
came to, his memory was bruised, and he knew
nothing at all. But then, as soon as Danger-
field advanced, the woman charged with fury
upon him an whole battery of records, being
couvictions, outlawries and judgments, with
Arser* de main, pillory, prison breach ; and
what not of villainy, and almost every species
of crime? Then by proof shewed so many ill
things of him, as the court was soon satisfied
to reject him for a witness. She proved dint,
when she sent first to biui to get acquaintance
with Strode, his answer was, that they hud
been long acquainted, having padded together,
and that he cared for neither fire, sword, nor
hell, nor what he said or swore, for he had
studied to be a rogue ever since he was tea
years old. But in this, she gave no very good
character of herself that, after such a decla-
ration, trusted him as she did. But I think a
roguv planet reigned at that time ; so common
was it to encourage and trust the worst of them.
In fine, the fellow was exploded with ignominy,
and sent home to Newgate again, and the pri-
soner was acquitted."
266. The Trial of Roger Palmer, esq. Earl of Castlemaine*, in
the Kingdom of Ireland, at the Kings-Bench, for High
Treason: 32 Charles II. June 23, a. d. 1680.
ROGER PALMER, esq. having been ar-
raigned of High Treason, and pleaded Not
Guilty, was this day brought to his trial.
CL of Cr. Crier, make proclamation.
Crier. O yes ! Our sovereign lord the king
doth strictly charge and command all manner
of persons to keep silence, upon pain of im-
prisonment. O yes ! If any one can inform
our sovereign lord the king, the king's Serjeant
at law, the King's Attorney General, or this in-
quest now to be taken of the High Treason
whereof Roger Palmer, esq. earl of Castle-
maine, in the kingdom of Ireland, stands in-
dicted^ let them come forth and they shall be
heard ; for the prisoner stands at the bar upon
his deliverance.
CL qf Cr. Crier, make an O yes.
Crier. O yes ! You good men that are ira-
!>annelled to enquire between our sovereign
ord the king, and Roger Palmer, esq. earl of
Castlemaine, within the kingdom of Ireland,
answer to your names.
CI. qf Cr. Roger Palmer, esq. earl of Cas-
tlemaine, in the kingdom of Ireland, hold up
thy hand t These good men that were lately
called, and now here appear, are to pass be-
tween our sovereign lord the king and you upon
your life or death ; if you challenge any of
them, you are to speak as they come to the
hook to be sworn, and before they are sworn.
Sir Johu Cutler, kt. bart. ; sir Regilaud Foster,
hart. ; Henry Herriot; Richard Cheney; Tho-
mas Johnson ; John Roberts ; Fr. Dorrington ;
Hugh Squire ; Charles Good ; John Puiford ;
tdw. Claxton, esquires ; Fr. May hew, gent.
Crier. O yes ! Our sovereign lord the king
doth strictly charge and command all manner
of persons to keep silence, upou paiii of impri-
sonment.
CL of the Cr. Roger Palmer, esq. earl of
Castlemaine, in the kingdom of Ireland, hold
up your hand. You gentlemen of the jury that
axe now sworn, look upon the prisoner, and)
hearken to his charge. You shall understand
that he stands indicted by the name of Roger
Palmer, esq. earl of Castlemaine, in the king-
dom of Ireland ; for that he as a false traitor
against our most illustrious and excellent prince
and lord Charles the 2d, by the grace of God
of England, Scotland, France, and Ireland king,
defender of the faith, &c. and his natural lord ;
not having the fear of God before his eyes, nor
weighing the duty of his allegiance, but being
moved and seduced by the instigation of the
devil, his cordial love, true, due and natural
obedience, which true and faithful subjects of
our said sovereign lord the king ought to bear
towards him, altogether withdrawing ; and con-
triving, and with all his might intending to disturb
the peace and common tranquillity of this
kingdom, and to bring and put our sovereign
lord the king to death and final destruction,
and alter the true worship of God within this
kingdom established, to the superstition of the
Romish church ; and to stir up and move war
r'nst our said sovereign lord the king within
realm of England, and to subvert tl»e go*
vernment thereof; the 20th day of June, in the
30th year of the reign of our said sovereign lord
Charges the 2nd, of England, Scotland, France
and Ireland king, defender of the faith, &c. at
the parish of ik. Giles in the Fields, in the
county of Middlesex, with divers other false
traitors to die jurors unknown, did traitorously
imagine and intend the killing, death and final
destruction of our said lord the king, and to
change and alter, and utterly subvert the anci-
ent government of this kingdom, and to*
despese and wholly to deprive our said lord
the king of his crown and government of
this realm of England, and to extirpate the
true Protestant Religfon: and to accomplish
nod fulfil the same most wicked treasons and
traiterous imaginations and purposes aforesaid,
the said Roger Palmer, esq. earl of Castlemaine
in the kingdom of Ireland, and other false tra*%
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I680.—/or Higk Treason. [1070
stands indicted for High-Treason ; that is, For
designing to murder the king, and alter the
government and law. And this is but a parcel
of the Plot, which hath been carrying on a
great white, and many persons tried For it, and
some have suffered and been executed for it :
and my lord, we wilt give your lordship evidence.
That my Lord Castlemaine hath at several
times conspired the death of the king, and he
hath reproved persons for not doing it. And
mv lord hath been in consults among Jesuits,
where these matters have been carried on, and
this whole design hath been negotiated ; and
my lord Castlemaine hath been consenting and
agreeing to all these matters. And my lard, when
the trials were in hand, it did appear upon those,
trials there were many persons brought from St.
Omers to be witnesses against Dr. Oates, to
prove he was not in England at that time when,
he said in his depositions that he did consult
with the Jesuits ; and these persons my lord
Castlemaine had the management and instruc-
tion of at that time : and all along at the Old-
Bailey my lord Castlemaine was present there,
and did countenance these persons, and was an
intercessor for them. These are but branches
and circumstances ; what is material we will
prove by witnesses.
Att. ben. Come, Dr. Oates, pray tell what
you know.
Prisoner. My Lord, I have a long time wished
for this day ; and your lordship may very well
remember it. The reason why 1 have so much
desired a trial is, because I thought it a means,
and the best means, and the only means to
shew to the world my innocency, and also to'
shew to the world how much I have been ca%
lumuiated by this charge.
L. C. J. (Sir William Scraps.) What have
ou to say ? Have you any thing to say against
)r. Oates?
Prisoner. No, my lord; I only say this, Here I
am a prisoner at the bar, and I have pleaded Not
Guilty, and throw myself upon this court; and
therefore f am very willing to hear what this
man will say.
Dr. Oates. My lord, I humbly move the
court, Whether or no I may use my own
method ?
L. C. J. Give your charge, we direct no-
thing.
Oates. My lord? in 1677, 1 was sent over into
Spain by the Jesuits that were here in England;
where I remained for several months, and trans-
acted business for them, and, my lord, I re-
turned from Spain in November, and brought
several letters from some English fathers there;
among which there was one directed for my
lord Castlemaine. My lord, I did net deliver
the letter to him; but, my lord, the contents of
the letter was to this effect
1069]
tors to the jurors unknown, the same 20th day
of Jane, in the 30th year aforesaid, with force
and arms, in the parish of St. Giles in the Fields
aforesaid, in the county ' aforesaid, advisedly,
devilishly, maliciously and traitorously did as-
semble, unite and gather themselves together,
and then and there advisedly, devilishly, ma-
liciously, subtillv, and traitorously did consult
and agree to bring our said sovereign lord the
king to death and final destruction, and t* de-
prive him of his crown and government of Eng-
land, and to introduce and establish the religion
of the church of Rome, in this kingdom ; and
the sooner to fulfil and accomplish the same
most wicked treasons and traiterous imagina-
tions and purposes aforesaid, be then and there
did falsly, maliciously and traitorously promise
divers great rewards, and did pay divers sums
of money to several persons unknown; and
then and there falslv and traiteronsly did write
divers notes, to incite several other persons to
accomplish the treasons aforesaid, against the
life of our sovereign lord the king, his crown and
dignity, and contrary to the form of the statute
in sucn case made and provided.
CI. of the Cr. Upon this Indictment he hath
been arraigned, and hath pleaded thereunto
Not Guilty ; and for his trial he puts himself
upon God and his country, which country you
are. Your charge is to enquire, Whether he
be Guilty of the High-Treason whereof he stands
indicted, or Not Guilty ? If you find him Guilty,
yon are to enquire what goods and chattels,
lands and tenements he had at the time when
the High-Treason was committed, or at any
time since? If you find him Not Guilty, you
are to say so, and no more : and hear your evi-
deace.
Crier. O yes! If any one will give evidence
on the behalf of our sovereign lord the king,
against Roger Palmer, esq. earl of Castle-
maine, in the kingdom of Ireland, let him
come forth and he shall be beard ; for the
prisoner now standi at the bar upon bis delive-
rance.
Mr. Bonitkon. May it please you, my lord,
and you gentlemen of the jury, the prisoner at
the bar stands indicted for High-Treason; for
that he intending to disturb the peace within
this kingdom established, to destroy, and alter
the government, and to bring the king to death
and final destruction, and to alter our religion
to the superstition of the church of Rome, did,
on the SOtb day of Jane, in the 30tb year of the
reign of onr sovereign lord the king, consult and
treat with several other persons, and that he
with these persons did agree to destroy the king
and alter the religion, and cause rebellion ;
and further to accomplish these treasons, he
did promise and agree to pay several ac-
counts? and deposit several sums of money,
and did likewise write and publish several
books. To this he bath pleaded Not Guilty ;
if we prove these things, you are to find him
Guilty.
Alt. Gen. (Sir Creswel Levinz.) May it
please jour lordship, my lord Castlemaine here
B
L. C. J. How came you to see the contents t
Oates. My lord, I was at the writing ef the
letter, and so I did see the contents of iu
L. C. J. Did the priests shew it youj or did
you only see it yourself?
Oates. No, my lord; it was shewn me by
14)75] STATE TRIALS, 32 C* am.es II. 1680.— Trial of tkt Earl o/ Qaailcmamc, [UW
Pris. I will ask him as many questions as I
think reasonable ;. and when, my lord, I do de-
sire time, and he caunoi tell l he limes,, he must
tell me so.
L. C. J. Mr. Oates, answer my lord what
questions he asks you,
Oates. I will tell my lord Castlemaine as
near as I can remember, my lord.
Pris* Itfr. Oates, when was it you came
over?
Oates. Really it was some few days before
the consult.
Pris. How mauy days do you think ?
Oates. Really I cannot remember.
X. C. J. I suppose you have your memo-
rials.— Oates. Really, my lord, no.
X. C. J. Have you any thing more to ask?
Pris. Ves, my lord, a great many questions.
Were you present, Mr. Oates, pray, at that
consult, when I consented to the king's death ?
was you by ?
Oates. I was present at the consult ; but I
do not chnrge you to be at the consult.
X. C. J. He asks you where it was he agreed
to it ?
Oates. At Mr. Fenwick's chamber, t re-
member it was about seven or eight o'clock
that we were going over Lincoln's- Inn-Fields.
X. C. J. How long might you be at Fen-
wick's ?
' Oates. It was about eleven or twelve o'clock
I came away.
Pris, When you met me in Lincoln's-Inn-
Fields, was I in a coach or on foot, or was any
body with me f
Oates. I cannot say whether your lordship
had a man with you, or no :
X. C. J. Was there any f>ody with him ?
Oates. I did not take notice of that.
X. C. J. You were two hours together, pray
let me ask you this question, What was your
discourse about?
Oates. That was part of the discourse, my
lord.
X. C. J. What? You have given us a very
short account of it in four lines: you were two
hours together, What was the mail; of your dis-
course about ?
Oates, My lord, I will give you- as plain us I
can, the discourse at that time.
-X. C. J. Pray let us know what the main of
your discourse was about.
Oates. One part of their discourse was about
the revenues of their colleges, and how they
had suffered by the French taking St. Outers,
and what losses they had sustained by reason
of the change of government by the conquest ;
for the crown of Spain had entailed on the col-
lege of St. Omers jive or six hundred a year, for
the maintaining the foundation of their house,
cr foundation rent, artd it was taken away by
reason of the conquest that France had made
over the Spanish dominions there ; and they
were consulting how they should write to father
La Chaise to be an instrument to move the
French king to restore this annuity, that was a
•ettleiuant entailed upon it.
X. C. J. How came you intp this discourse?
Oates* This was after the other discourse?
X. C. J. How came you to discourse this aw
fair here in England ?
Oates. I will tell your lordship as near as I
can remember : when we met in LincolnVlLO-
Fields, Mr. Lang worth recommended me to my
lord Castlemaine, and bade me take notice of
him. I cannot say this is my lord Castlemaine,
but this is that man J saw.
X. C. J. Did he call him by his name?
Oates. He told him that I was such a one, and
that I was serviceable to them. And upon oar
way as we went to Mr. Fenwick's chamber, be
enquired into the causes of my coming over so
soon again, for he said I went over but last
month. Said he, How came it to pass he cane
over so soon again ? saith he, We wanted him
to do sdroe business for us. And there were
more particulars of the transactions of the con-
sult mentioned to my lord Castlemaine.
X. C J. How did they bring in the particu-
lars of that design ?
Oates. This is as near as I can remember.
X. C. J. How came they to talk of laying
aside the king, and bringing in the Catholic re*
ligion ?
Oates. My lord, after they had given an ac-
count of the transactions of the consult: this
was one part of the consult.
X C. J. Pray how came they to bring it in,
in discourse ?
Oates. My lord, they spake of the partko-
culars of it.
t. C. J. I wonder what introduced the par-
ticulars: was it to acquaint him with those
particulars ?
Oates. My lord, I have nothing to say to that;
they were things so generally talked of by those
of the Jesuitical party, that whenever they met,
the v scarce did talk, of any thing else but of that,
and so they did at this time.
X. C. J. Pray tell me the whole discourse,
as you can remember, that relates to tba
time.
Oates. My lord, I have told your lordship we
met with my lord Castlemaine in Lioooln's-Ion-
Fields. I have told you, my lord, that we went
to Mr. Fenwick's; I bava told you, my 1<h*»
that after some discourse (how it was intro-
duced I cannot be positive, but as ! can re-
member) they were speaking of my going over
and coming again so soon, my going from the
consult to St. Oarer's and returning agakMOf*
England so soon, and so one word brought ji
another. .
X. C. J. Did you knowthen Ibat my 1«*
Castlemaine had ever heard of this matter be-
fore ?
Outes. My lord, I do not know ; but I •»
morally certain as to myself; but I cannot
swear he did.
Att. Gen. Did he apeak of it to him «♦ *
stranger to it ?
. Oates. No. .
Just. Jones. By the lettei joa *!*•* •* m
knew .before*
I07T]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16 SO.— /or High Treason.
£1078
X. Ct J. Answer my brother's question, was
the. letter you had*seen, before or after that dis-
course at Fen wick's r*
Oates. My lord, that was after the consult.
X. C. J. Then you know he did know of the
design ?
, Goto. My lord, I think not of the particulars
of the design.
X. C. J. That is, be knew of this design for
tbe main. When you talk of the design, you
always mean tbe consult.
Oates. No, my lord, when we say the con-
sult, we mean what was agreed on ac that con-
sult, not concerning these matters that were
done sii months before. •
L* C. J. Mr. Oates, tell me, when yon men-
' tion tbe design and the consult, do not you al-
ways mean the death of the king and the
bringing in Popery ?
Oates. Yes, my lord, but tbe terms are not
convertible : for, my lord, when we say the
consult, there was something else done, my
lord, at that consult which had not an absolute
relation to the design ; and of that I will give
jour lordship one instance, as the sending
Father Cary to Rome, which they did in some
three years.
X. C. J Some trivial matters concerning
their own government, but the thing you talk of
wflt the same consult and design,
Oates. Wben I speak of the word design, it
was so taken among us, and so received by my
lord Castlemaine.
X. C J. How can you say it was so received
by him?
Oates. Because be used tbe same word, and
answered us according to our interpretation.
Justice Jones. My lord, he speaks of the de-
sign thus : there was a design for the killing of
tbe king, there was a design of the priests and
fathers for it ; but saith he, ' Afterwards there
' was a general consultation,' and this design
came to be formed by this general consult,
which my lord Castlemaine, as be thinks, had
no knowledge of till the time they met together
in Lincoln's-Inn fields, and afterward went and
discoursed about it.
X. C. J. It is very fair, that he doth not
know that my lord Castlemaine had any know-
ledge before the consult of this business; but,
he says, ' The Design upon which the consult
was, that be might know, which was to destroy
the king, and bring in popery.' Aud be says,
my lord Castlemaine did understand this word
design in that sense they did; because he an-
swered their letters according to their inter-
pretation of it. How do you know he under-
stood the word design in its utmost capacity as
you understood it ?
Oates* When we have our words, we have
our keys whereby we understand them. But I
will answer this question to the satisfaction of
the gentlemen of tbe jury. My lord, he hath
many times spoken in his letters of introducing
the Popish religion, and annexed it to the
word design of promoting the Catholic religion
here in Eoglaoq.
X. C. J. Now methinks you have brought
the word design to something else thao killing
the king.
Oates. Yes, my lord, the subversion of reli-
gion and the government.
X. C. J. Did he put in government? Did he
talk of bringing in the Catholic religion, and
altering the government ?
Oates. No, my lord, I won't say that.
X. C. J. When we are examining concerning
men's lives, we must be careful of their words
in such matters.
Oates. One part of my evidence I have
omitted, your lordship did ask me how f came
to know my lord Castlemaine's hand. My lord,
sometimes we received ' letters from 1nm sub-
scribed Palmer, and sometimes subscribed Cas-
tlemaine, sometimes some other name which I
may not remember, and they were generally re-
ceived as from him. And I have seen, my
lord, my lord Castlemaine write ; for that night,
as near as I remember, it was post-night.
X. C. J. At Fen wick's chamber?
Oates. At Fen wick's chamber, and my lord
Castlemaine did write a letter, subscribed it
and sealed it, and I was fain to go to the ge- •
neral post-house, it was so late.
Justice Jones. What, did be subscribe then?'
Oates. No, my lord, I saw no more than the
superscription,
X. C. J. Then you did not seehisname to it?
Oates. No, my lord. My lord Castlemaine
did ask, Why he had not answers to such and
such letters ? For several letters I had seen
which were not of much moment.
X. C.J. I wish you had one that was of
moment.
Oates. It cannot be expected, my lord, that
I should have them.
X. C. J. My lord, ask him what you please.
Pris. You say, Mr. Oates, you received letters
from me in Spain ?
Oates. I never said so. (
Pris. You saw letters in Spam from me ?
Oates. Yes, I have seen letters in Spain that
were from you.
Pris. Look you, Mr. Oates, pray let me ask
you a question, you said this, That you did not
know me when you met at the consult ?
Oates. What consult?
Pris. At Fen wick's chamber.
Oates. I did not know yon at Wild-bouse.
Pris. There you met me first ?
Oates. There I met the prisoner at the bar.
X. C. J. He says he did not know you at
Wild-house, but lie came to know you by
Lang worth in Lincoln's Inn-Fidds, and then
you went together to Fenwick's chamber.
Pris. Mr. Oates, Did not you say, that at
Wild-house you did not know me, nor I you?
X. C. J. He says he cannot rell whether you
knew him or no, but he did not know you.
Pris. Was I familiar with you ?
Oates. No, my lord.
Pris. Did I talk treason at Wild-1iouse?
Oates. It was the discourse of the day, but
I do not remember every particular of tjbe djs-
1079 j STATE TRIALS, S2 Chajuas II. Um.—TridofthcEarltfCatAtmcdnc,^
course, but I remember what your opinion
was concerning the rector of Lies* and the
rector of G ant.
Pris. Was there any tiling about killing the
king at Wild-house ?
Gates. Really, my lord, I cannot remember,
I won't charge it there, because I am upon my
oath ; though I morally believe, as to myself,
that there was discourse bad enough there.
Pris. Mr. Oates, Pray will you bear me ?
Then the acquaintance I had with you was by
Mr. Langworth, and then wc went that night
to Fenwick's chamber, and there we staid very
long, and there we had all this discourse ?
Oates. Yes.
Pris. Look, Mr. Oates, was there any body
by besides Mr. Langworth and Mr. Fenwick ?
Oates. Really, my lord, I do not remember
»ny body was by, unless a maid might come to
£11 a cup of drink or so.
Pris. Mr. Oates, pray, Mr. Oates, did you
and I ever meet together after that time ?
Oates. Really, my lord, I cannot be exact
in that.
Pris. Did you never see me nor discourse
with me after that time?
Oates. I cannot recollect myself as to that, I
cannot remember.
L. C. J. He does not remember that ever be
was with you afterwards.
Pris, You do not know whether ever I dis-
coursed with you afterwards ?
Oates. I do not remember.
Pris. Very well, Mr. Oates : look you, sir,
you do not remember that I ever had any dis-
course with you after that time ; and no body
was by but Mr. Fenwick and Mr. langworth ?
Oates. As I remember.
Pris. Was not there another priest there ?
Oates. There is nobody occurs to ray me-
mory.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you brought me letters
from Spain ?
Oates. I brought a letter from Spain directed
to you in 1677.
Pris. Was I in town or out of town ?
Oates. I delivered it to the provincial.
Pris. You went, over to Liege; did not you
•ee me there ?
Oates. No, my lord, I did not see you there,
I only went to wait upon a gentleman that was
a priest afterwards, that went to take orders.
Pris. Did you not see me at Liege ?
Oates. No, my lord.
Pris. You were at Liege, did you stay there?
Oates. I lay there one night.
Alt. Gen. Have you any thing to ask, my
lord ?
Pris. Presently, my lord.
Justice Jones. It is very reasonable, my lord
should question you. You own lum to be the
lord Casdemaine : when wias it you did first
discover this business concerning my lord Cas-
tlemaine ?
Oates. My lord, I did discover my lord Cas-
tlemaine to be in the Plot the last sessions of
the long parliament, and I accused my lord
Castlemaine this Trinity-term was 12 montb,
and uty lord Castlemaine was committed : for
when Mr. Dangerfield came in and accused raj
lord Castlemaine, I brought a charge a second
time against my lord Castlemaine.
Justice Jones. Did you discover all this
then ?
Oates. I did charge him for having an hand
in the design in geuerai
Justice Jones. To the parliament ?
Oates. Yes, to the parliament.
Pris. You say, when I assented to the kine's
death in Fenwick's chamber, that I said I
should now find a time to be revenged ?
^ Oates. Pray, my lord, do not put me to men-
tion such reflecting evidence.
Pris. When you were before tbe king, joa
did in pursuance of this speak of a divorce.*
Oates. My lord, I will give evidence as to
that, if that my lord comes to be indicted for
his priesthood.
L. C. J. My lord may ask what questions
be shall think fit.
Alt. Gen. My lord says he has said it, and
what he said in another place be is nQt to treat
uow of.
Pris. Suppose I can prove him an ill man
in any place, is not that fit to be spoken of
here f Since he hath brought the king upon
the stage, and since be hath accused me beibra
the king and your lordships of a divorce, I ask
him whether lie saw it ?
Oates. I will tell your lordship what I said
as to the divorce : I heard it discoursed of ge-
nerally among the fathers beyond sea, and
this was some other part of the discourse at
Wild-House ; and I heard my lord Castle*
maine say that he had been at a great charge
to carry on that business of the divorce.
Pris. At Wild-House ?
Oates. At Wild-house. Now, my lord, I
took no notice of it because it was not my bu-
siness. But, my lord, after thatjtbere was a,
priest's chamber that was searched, and then.
was the whole Case stated ; now what is become
of the state of that Case, my lord, I cannot
tell.
L. C.J. By whom was that Case stated ?
Oates. There was a letter found, whereby
my lord Castlemaine should have tbe matter
* The prisoner was the husband of Barbara
Villiers, the first mistress to Charles tbe Second
after his Restoration. Judeed according to
Oldraixon (1 Hist, of England during tl)«
reigns of the Royal House of Stuart, 471) &
was currently reported, that on the very nkM
of the king's coming to London he took ner
from her husband.
In 1661 the husband was created baron
Palmer and earl of Castlemaine io Ireland (of
which honours, it has been said, that he ***
not very proud) and, in 1670, the iwfe was
created baroness Non-such, countess of South-
ampton and duchess of Cleveland, in £&£"
land. See the Proceedings in the House ol
Commons against lord Castlemaine, *.p* 1°^*
10S1]
STATE TRIALS, 52 Chjuu.es II. 10SO.-/or X%* Trtmm.
directed in order to the carrjing oa the divorce
that whs to be between him and his wife Bar-
bara.
Pris. Did not you tell the king that you saw
the divorce in Strangers hand ?
Gates. My lord, 1 will tell you this, I gave
an account to the king that I saw in Strange's
band an accotatof a divorce that was between
m? lord Castlemaine and Barbara du chest of
Cleveland.
Recorder (sir George Jefferies). My lord, if
be ask too maoy questions that do not relate
to this matter, it is impossible to give an ac-
count ef every particalar.
Pris. My fords, I humbly submit this case.
Recorder. Ask him what you said to such a
nan upon the 9th of August was twelve-month,
must he give an account ?
X. C. J. He must say he does not know.
Recorder. Indeed it is reasonable that my
lord Castlemaine should ask him sorue ques-
tions, and that Mr. Oates should give bka an
account. «
Att. Gen, My lord, will you give me leave
to speak ? If he may ask questions about such
foreign matters as this, no man can justify him-
self.
X. C. J. This is not so mighty remote but
use may be made of it.
Att. Gen. If he should ask whether be were
such a day at such an bouse, and tell htm yes,
and mistake the day ; any man may be catcned
thus.
Pris. How can a man be catched in the
truth?
Ait. Gen. My lord Castlemaine may, if he
can, catch him. in any thing he gives in evi-
dence here.
Pris. My lord, if jour lordship over-rule me,
I will say no more. Mr. Attorney says I come
to catch him, I confess I do.
AlL Gen, You should not ask him foreign
questions.
L. C. J. He asks a plain question ; why do
you labou/ so much that he should not ask,
whether he had seen the divorce ? My lord
Castlemaine I have asked the question for
you whether or no he said be had seen the di-
vorce r and he does not remember whether
be said so or no.
Att. Gen. My lord, I think, with with your
lordship's leave, that he is not bound to answer
questions that are not to the evidence.
X. C. J. If so be he would come to make ap-
plication, it may be well enough.
Att. Gen. I say it for the method of the
evidence, my lord, that I would not have these
excursions.
Pris. I desire your lordship that I may say
out what I nave to say. I say this, that no man
in the world that speaks truth can be catcned,
neither will Mr. Attorney suffer me to catch
him.
Att. Gen. I say you have liberty to catch
him in any thing that doth belong to the evi-
dence.
Pris. I coma to shew you the fitness of it
[lost
to this affair. He comes and tells you, among
other consults, of Wild-house, and my meeting
him in LincolnYIno-Fields, the recommenda-
tions of Mr. Langworth, and going to Fen wick's
chamber, where we talked of altering the go-
vernment, and my assenting to kill the king;
and since you have brought the king upon the
stsge, I will refresh your memory a little ;
since you talk of revenging myself, look you if
you did not mention a divorce to the king and
also to my lord chief justice.
Att. Gen. My lord, you are under a mis*
take.
fris. Pray give me leave, Mr. Attorney.
Att. Gen. You make such excursions into
foreign matters.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you did say you saw a
divorce. I ask you whether you saw a divorce,
and where ; or whether you said so ?
X. C. J. He says, he does not remember
he said so.
Oates. I do not remember whether I said
so or no, my lord, I have it down, but indeed I
did not set my thoughts a- work.
Att. Gen. He hath given you an answer chat
may satisfy yon.
Just. Raymond. He hath papers wherein he
bath entered Memorandums to refresh his me-
mory, but these papers he hath not by him.
X. C. J. Then he may say, he hath not.
Att. Gen. That he bath already, my lord,
X. C.J. Have you any more to say r
Pris. I have, my lord, if you will give me
leave to write down two words.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you told my lords the
Judges that I did say, I was at great essence
about a divorce ?— Oates. Yes.
Pris. That is very well, Mr. Oates.
Att. Gen. Call Mr. Dangerfield.
Dr. Oates was going out of the court.
Pris. May Mr. Oates go out of the court ?
Court. Yes, yes.*
Oates. I will be within call, my lord.
Pris. I only submit it to your lordships, whe-
ther or no a witness may go out of the court ?
Oates. I will stay then.
Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Dangerfield.
Pris. Pray stay.
X. C. J. Why so ?
Pris< Here I am a prisoner, my lords, and
submit it to your lordships, whether or no Mr:
Dangerfield, who hath bad the censure of this
court, may be a wituess ? Whetlier or no.
counsel shall shew reasons to your lordships
whether he may speak or no ? ,
Justice Jones. You must shew your excep-
tions that you have against him,
Pris. My exception is this : that he was
convicted of felony, that he broke prison, and
was outlawed upon it. Besides this, my lord,,
be is a stigiuatick, hath stood in the pillory, and
was burnt in the hand. Now I humbly beseech
your lordships, that you will be pleased to hear
what my counsel can say : and then, my lords,
if you over-rule, I shall give place with all my
heart
1079] STATE TRIALS, S2CharubIL lOSO.—Triuloftb EarltfCaMltmain*, [1060
course, but I remember what your opinion
was concerning the rector of Liege and the
rector of Gant.
Pris. Was there any thing about killing the
king at Wild-house ?
Gates. Really, my lord, I cannot remember,
I won't charge it there, because I am upon my
oath ; though I morally believe, as to myself,
that there was discourse bad enough there.
Pris. Mr. Oates, Pray will you hear me ?
Then the acquaintance I had with you was by
Mr. Langwortb, and then we went tliat night
to Fenwick's chamber, and there we staid very
long, and there we had all this discourse ?
Oates. Yes.
Pris. Look, Mr.' Oates, was there any body
by besides Mr. Langwonh and Mr. Fenwick ?
Oates. Really, my lord, I do not remember
any body was by, unless a maid might come to
£11 a cup of drink or so.
Pris. Mr. Oates, pray, Mr. Oates, did you
and I ever meet together afier that time ?
Oates. Really, my lord, I cannot be exact
in that.
Pris. Did you never see me nor discourse
with me after that time?
Oates. I cannot recollect myself as to that, I
cannot remember.
X. C. J. He does not remember that ever be
was with you afterwards.
Pris* You do not know whether ever I dis-
coursed with you afterwards ?
Oates. I do not remember.
Pris. Very well, Mr. Oates ; look you, air,
you do not remember that I ever had any dis-
course with you after that time ; and no body
was by but Mr. Fenwick and Mr. Langwortb ?
Oates. As I remember.
Pris. Was not there another priest there ?
Oates. There is nobody occurs to my me-
mory.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you brought me letters
from Spain ?
Oates. I brought a letter from Spain directed
to you in 1677.
Pris. Was I in town or out of town ?
Oates. I delivered it to the provincial.
Pris. You went, over to Liege; did not you
tee me there ?
Oates. No, my lord, I did not see you there,
I only went to wait upon a gentleman that was
a priest afterwards, that went to take orders*
Pris. Did you not see me at Liege ?
Oates. No, my lord.
Pris. You were at Liege, did you stay there?
Oates. I lay there one night.
Alt. Gen. Have you any thing to ask, my
lord ?
Pris. Presently, my lord.
Justice Jones. It is very reasonable, my lord
should question you. You own lum to be the
lord Castlemaine : when was it you did first
discover this business concerning my lord Cas-
tlemaine ?
Oates. My lord, I did discover my lord Cas-
tlemaine to be in the Plot the last sessions of
the long parliament, and I accused my lord
Castlemaine this Trinity-term was 12 months,
and my lord Castlemaine was committed : for
when Mr. DangerBeld came in and accused my
lord Castlemaine, I brought a charge a second
time against my lord Castlemaine.
Justice Jones. Did you discover all this
then ?
Oates. I did charge him for having an band
in the design in general.
Justice Jones. To the parliament ?
Oates. Yes, to the parliament.
Pris. You say, when I assented to the king's
death in Fenwick's chamber, that I said I
should now find a time to be revenged ?
Oates. Pray, my lord, do not put me to men-
tion such reflecting evidence.
Pris. When you were before the king, yoa
did in pursuance of this speak of a divorce.
Oates. My lord, I will gjve evidence as to
that, if that my lord comes to be indicted for
his priesthood.
L. C. J. My lord may ask what questions
be shall think fit.
Alt. Gen. My lord says he has said it, and
what he said in another place be is not to treat
now of.
Pris. Suppose I can prove bim an ill man
in any place, is not that fit to be spoken of
here r Since he hath brought the king upon
the stage, and since he hath accused me before
the king and your lordships of a divorce, I ask*
him whether he saw it?
Oates. I will tell your lordship what I said
as to the divorce : I heard it discoursed of ge-
nerally among the fathers beyond sea, and
this was some other part of the discourse at
Wild-House ; and I beard my lord Castle-
maine say that he had been at a great charge
to carry on that business of the divorce.
Pris. At Wild-House ?
Oates. At Wild-house. Now, my lord, I
took no notice of it because it was not my bu-
siness. But, my lord, after tbatjthere was a,
priests chamber that was searched, and there,
was the whole Case stated ; now what is become
of the state of that Case, my lord, I canaoi
tell.
L. C. J. By whom was that Case stated ?
Oates. There was a letter found, whereby
my lord Castlemaine should have the matter
t
* The prisoner was the husband of Barbara
Villiers, the first mistress to Charles the Second
after his Restoration. Indeed according to
Oldmixon (1 Hist, of England during the
reigns of the Royal House of Stuart, 471) it
was currently reported, that on the very night
of the king's coming to Londoa be took per.
from her husband.
In 1661 the husband was created baron
Palmer and earl of Castlemaine in Ireland (of
which honours, it has been said, that be was
not very proud) and, in 1670, the wife was
created baroness Non-such, countess of South-
ampton and duchess of Cleveland, in Eng-
land. See the Proceedings in the House of
Commons against lord Castlemaine, a. ». 1689.
I0S1]
STATE TRIALS, 52 Ch aju.es II. l6,SO.«-/br Higk Trtmm.
directed io order to the carrying on the divorce
that wis to be between him and bis wife Bar-
bara*
Pris. Did not yon tell the king that you saw
the divorce io Strange'* band ?
Votes. My lord, 1 will tell you this, I gave
an account to the king that I saw io Strange'*
band an account of a divorce that was between
oiv lord Castlemaine and Barbara duchess of
Cleveland.
Recorder (sir George Jefferies). My lord, if
he ask too many questions that do not relate
to this matter, it is impossible to give an ac-
count of every particalar.
Pris. My lords, I humbly submit this case.
Recorder. Ask him what you said to such a
man upon the 9th of August was twelve-month,
must he give an account ?
X. C. J. He must say he does not know.
Recorder. Indeed it is reasonable that my
lord Castlemaine should ask him sorue ques-
tions, and that Mr. Oates should give hint an
account. »
Alt. Gen, My lord, will you give roe leave
to speak ? If he may ask questions about such
foreign matters as this, no man can justify him-
self.
X. C. X This is not so mighty remote but
use may be made of it.
Att. Gen. If he should ask whether be were
Bach a dav at such an bouse, and tell htm yes,
and mistake the day ; any man may be catched
thus.
Pris. How can a man be catched in the
truth?
Ait. Gen. My lord Castlemaine may, if he
can, catch him. in any thing he gives io evi-
dence here.
Pris. My lord, if your lordship over-rule me,
I will say no more. Mr. Attorney says I come
to catch him, I confess I do. I
Att. Gen* You should not ask him foreign
questions.
X. C. X He asks a plain question ; why do
you labour so much that he should not ask*
whether he had seen the divorce ? My lord
Castlemaine I have asked the question for
you whether or no he said be had seen the di-
vorce ? and he does not remember whether
he said so or no.
Att. Gen. My lord, I think, with with your
lordship's leave, that he is not bound to answer
questions that are not to the evidence.
X. C. X If so be he would come to make ap-
plication, it may be well enough.
Att. Gen. I say it for the method of the
evidence, my lord, chat I would not have these
excursions.
Pris. I desire your lordship that I may say
out what I have to say. I say this, that ao man
in the world that speaks truth can be catched,
neither will Mr. Attorney suffer me to catch
him.
Att.Gvn.l say yon have liberty to catch
him in any thing that doth belong to the evi-
dence.
Pris. I coma to shew you the fitness of it
[IQSt
to this affair. He comes and tells you, among
other consults, of Wild-bouse, and my meeting
him in LincolnVInn-Fields, the recommenda-
tions of Mr. Langworth, and going to Fenwick's
chamber, where we talked of altering the go-
vernment, and my assenting to kill the king;
and since vou have brought the king upon the
stage, I will refresh your memory a little ;
since you talk of revenging myseif; look you if
you did not mention a divorce to the king and
also to my lord chief justice.
Att. Gen.
take.
My lord, you are under a mis*
Pris. Pray give me leave, Mr. Attorney.
Att. Gen. You make such excursions into
foreign matters.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you did say you saw a
divorce. I ask you whether you saw a divorce,
and where ; or whether you said so ?
X. C. J. He eays, he does not remember
he said so.
Oates. I do not remember whether I said
so or no, my lord, I have it down, but indeed I
did not set my thoughts a-work.
Att. Gen. He hath given you an answer that
may satisfy you.
Just. Raymond. He hath papers wherein he
bath entered Memorandums to refresh his me-
mory, but these papers he hath not by him.
X. C. J. Then he may say, he hath not.
Att. Gen. That he bath already, my lord.
X. C.X Have you any more to say ?
Pris. I have, my lord, if you will give me
leave to write down two words.
Pris. Mr. Oates, you told my lords the
Judges that I did say, I was at great exf>ence
about a divorce ?— Oates. Yes.
Pris. That is very well, Mr. Oates.
Att. Gen. Call Mr. Dangerfield.
| Dr. Oates was going out of the court.
Pris. May Mr. Oates go out of the court ?
Court. Yes, yes. -
Oates. I will be within call, my lord.
Pris. I only submit it to your lordships, whe-
ther or no a witness may go out of the court ?
Oates. I will stay then.
Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Daogerfield.
Pris. Pray stay.
X. C. X Why so ?
Pris< Here I am a prisoner, my lords, and
submit it to your lordships, whether or no Mr.*
Dangerfield, who hath had the censure of this
court, may be a witness ? Whether or no
counsel shall shew reasons to your lordship*
whether be may speak or no ? ,
Justice Jones. You must shew yoor excep-
tions that you have against him.
Pris. My exception is this : that he was
convicted of felony, that he broke prison, and
was outlawed upon it. Besides this, my locd^,
be is a stigiuatick, hath stood in the pillory, and
was burnt in the hand. Now I humbly beseech
your lordships, that you will be pleased to hear
what my couasel cao say : and then, my lords,
if you over-rule, I shall give place with all my
heart
10S3] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16S0.— Trial of the Earl qf Castlemamc, [1084
X. C. J. I think it reasonable, if you desire
-counsel, that they should be alowed to speak.
Att. Geti. If your lordship please, when ray
lord's exceptions appear.
Justice Jones. What are your exceptions my
lord ?
Pris. That I told you beforehand : he is an
j»ut lawed person, he is convicted of felony.
Justice Jones. When was he outlawed ?
Att. Gen. In the 27 th year of the king, and
we say he hath a pardon iu the 30th year of
the king.
X. C, J. How do you prove he was burnt in
the hand, my lord ?
Att. Gen. When was he burnt in the hand ?
Pris. Call Briscoe.
Att. Gen. We bring a pardon unto that, and
that will restore him.
[A Record produced.]
Att. Gen. That record we confess ; shew the
pardon, shew the pardon.
L. C. J. Now go to that for which he was
burnt in the band.
Att. Gen. Here is a pardon that extends to
them all.
[The Pardon read : ' Decimo tertio die Ja-
nuarii, Anno Regni, &c.'J
X. C. J. This does not do it.
Att. Gen. Yes, my lord, it does.
X. C. J. Is that the Newgate pardon ?
Att. Gen. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. We have had it in the court.
Att. Gen. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. And felon? and outlawry is in it.
Att. Gen. Yes, my lord.
X. C. J. Where is that for which he was
bu rn t in the hand ?
Att. Gen. For that we give au answer; he
was received to the benefit of his clergy ; and
he was burnt in the hand, and his pardon is
after that too.
X. C. J. So it is.
Att. Gen. Then his pardon answers them all.
X. C. J. Now you see, my lord, you think
Dangerfield ought not to be a witness, who bath
gone through so many punishments, outlawed
for felony, and barat in the hand for felony :
Mr. Attorney makes answer, We have a par-
don, and by that he is restored, as be says, to
be a witness again. If you desire counsel to
•peak to this point, Whetber or no a man brand-
ed and burnt in the hand for felony, and af-
terwards is pardoned, is capable of being a
witness ? I see, po reason to deny it you.
Att. Gen. If there be matter for counsel to
•peak, in that case we must submit, if your
lordship make it a doubt
X. C. J. I do for my own part : In this I am
clear ; if a man were convicted of perjury, that
no pardou will make him a witness, because it
is to do the subject wrong. A pardon does not
make a man an honest man ; it takes off re-
proaches; and the law is wise in that, the law
will not suffer endless contumelies to be heaped
upon men, nor to be called perjured rascals,
and such things; it is only to prevent upbraid-
ing language, which tends to tne breach of the
peace. But, in ray opinion, if a man stands con-
victed in court for perjury, no pardon can ever
make him a witness, and set him upright again.
But that is a different case from this ; we are
upon this single case, Whetber a man that is
burnt in the hand for felony, whether a par-
don can set him right or no? For this I make
more doubtful than the other ; for a roan, may
be, that hath committed a robbery, would be
afraid to forswear himself; for though one is
a great, the other is a greater sin, and that in
the subject matter ; which considered, I think
it reasonable to allow my lord counsel to speak
to that single point, That a person being burnt
in the hand for felony, aud afterwards pardoned,
Whether he is capable of being a wituess ?
Pris. Then I do name Mr. Jones, Mr. Saun-
ders, and Mr. Darnal.
X. C. J. Very well.
[Mr. Sanders was called, but was not in
court.]
X. C. J. Are you prepared, Mr. Jones, to
speak ?
Jones. No, my lord.
Just. Jones. My lord, do you accept against
that one particular.
Pris. I stand upon both, his being pilloried
and burnt in the hand.
X. C. J. Will you admit that he stood in the
pillory?
Att. Gen. 1 know nothing of it.
X. C. J. I will tell you, my lord, you will see
whether it be necessary to protract this or no ;
for your council will hardly undertake to argue
unprepared about this point ; and if the trial
should he adjourned, it would be very trouble-
some. I think it the duty of my place to dis-
cbarge my conscience for you and against yon,
as the matter shall fall out ; and if so be that
you should insist upon it, and he be capable of
being a witness, supposing it so, vet I must say
you may give in the evidence of every record
of the conviction of any sort of crimes he hath
been guilty of, and they shall be read. They say
last day there were sixteen ; if there were an
hundred they should be read against him, and
they shall all go to invalidate any credit that is
to be given to any thing he shall swear.
Pris. My lord, I humblv submit myself to
your lordship; sixteen we have, I bring but six,
you shall have them, Mr. Attorney, when yon
please.
X. C. J. My lord, if you think it worth yonr
while to put it to counsel to argue, Whether he
may be a witness, or whether you think it may
be as well for you, supposing he be a witness,
tbe producing those things against him, or the
records of those crimes that he hath been con-
victed of; whetber that will be as well for you
or no, I leave it to yourself to do as you think
best.
Mr. Darnal. I conceive with submission to
your lordship, that be cannot be a witness.
X. C. J. Are you prepared to speak to it
now?
I0S5]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chables II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[lose
Mr. Darnal. My lord, I am ready to offer
somewhat to your lordship, why I conceive be
ought not to be sworn : bat I desire first, that
the pardon may be read, because many persons
and offences are comprized in it.
L. C.J. It is a pardon for felonies and out-
ries of felony in general.
Mr. Darnal If the persons and their offen-
ces are severally and sufficiently pardoned, then
my lord, I will proceed onto* the other point.
Just. Jones. 1 he whole is good.
Mr. Darnml. Then, my lord, I conceive, not-
withstanding this pardon, Mr. Dangerfield
ought not to be sworn ; and that no person
attaioted of felony (though pardoned) can be
si witness. My lord, it hath been adjudged in
11 Hen. 4. qxtadragctimoy That a man attainted
of felony, (as Mr. Dangerfield is) though be
be afterwards pardoned, cannot be sworn of a
jury. My lord, the same question hath been re-
Solved since, in nono Jacobi. It is reported in
Mr. Broivnlow's and Goldsborough's Reports,
Folio tricetimo quarto. And my lord Coke in Mr.
Bulstrode's second Reports, 154. in Brown and
Crasbaw's Case, is of the same opinion. He
says, A man attainted and pardoned cannot
serve upon any inquest; and that by the same
reason, the testimony of such a man for a wit-
ness is in all cases to be rejected.
L. C. J. Who says so ?
Mr. Daraal. My lord Coke.
L. C. J. Men do not slight my lord Coke ;
where- do you say that is ?
Mr. DamaL It is in Mr. Bulstrode's 2d Re-,
ports, in Brown and Crashaw's case, fol. 154.
Just. Jones. But yon should have brought
these books hither.
SAr. Damaf. I suppose. Sir, they maybe had
in the Hall. My lord Coke gives this reason for
it in that case ; he saith, not notwithstanding
his pardon, he is not ' probus et legalis homo?
Just. Jones. That pardon was before any
judgment; it was a pardon of felony before
any trial or judgment ; but here is a convic-
tion.
Mr. Darnal. My lord Coke puts the case
there of a man attainted. And, my lord, in
duodecimo Jacobi, it is reported in Brownlow's
Reports, fol. 47.
Just. Raymond. Which of his reports?
Mr. Darnal. I know but of one set out in his
. name alone, the other (which is called the first
part) is set out in his and Goldsborough's
name. I have Mr. Brownlow's Reports here,
am) if your lordship please you may see it.
L. C. J. What is the page?
Mr. Darnal. 47, my lord; the -Case there
reported is, The king pardoned a man attainted
for giving a false verdict ; yet he shall not be
at another time inpaonelled upon any jury;
and the reason given there is, that though the
punishment was pardoned, yet the guilt re-
mained.
• Just. Jones. That is a rery short note, and
not so much in' the book as you have men-
tioned.
Mr. Darnal, I writ it word lor word oat of
the Book, Sir, and I am sure there is so much
in my book. My lord, in Mr. Just.- Crooke's
Elizabeth, fol. 686, in Sbel bora's Case, it i%
held, that though the king may pardon Simony,
yet be cannot enable a Simomack to retain a
Jiving.
JL C. J. The act doth make him not capable*
Mr. Darnal. I conceive, Sir, it is upon the
same reason, because the pardon cannot take
away the guilt, though it may the punishment of
the offeuce.
Just. Raymond. He cannot dispense with
Simony, he cannot give a dispensation to take
a living.
Mr. Darnal. My lord, upon these resohitions
and the reason of them, I humbly sobmit it to
your lordship, whether Mr. Dangerfield (having
been attainted of felony, though hebe since par-
doned) can be a witness.
Att. Gen. My lord, with your lordship's fa-
vour, this is quite contrary to theconstant and
general opinion, and contrary to the constant
practice: For, my lord, with your lordship's fa-
vour, when a man is pardoned for any crime,
if a man cannot say he is a felon, or he is per*
jured, then he cannot be reckoned so to any
intent or purpose whatsoever.
L. C. J. 1 told you before, it is consonant to
all the reason and law in the world, that a par.
don should stop men's mouths from reviling
speeches that signify nothing; but it is one
thing to say men shall not go reviling, that can
have no consequent good, but which tends to
the breach of the peace, and another thing to
say he shall be liber.
Att. Gen. My lord, when the king gives him
a pardon, it is as if he had never committed the
offence. *
L. C. J. He may be outlawed notwithstand-
ing the king's pardon, and then it is not as if he
had never committed the offence.
Just. Jones. It restores him to wage battel,
and it makes him * liber et legalis homo:' For if
a man may wage battel, he is * liber et legalis
homo.'
Att Gen. Then, my lord, if he be so, he
shall be a witness : For, my lord, in the point
of perjury, a man that after a conviction of
perjury had a pardon, hath been admitted se-
veral times.
L. C. J. Was the exception taken, Mr. At-
torney?
Att. Gen. Yes, my lord, and he rejected be*
fore he hod a pardon.
Just. Raymond. How many men have been
witnesses that have been convicted of felonies,,
after the kings have pardoned theft?
Recorder. I will not adventure to say thai
there hath been a particular objection made,
and so that the court hath had the debate of
it; but I will undertake to give your lordship
several instances of men that have been con-
victed, and the judges sitting there knew them
to be so convicted, and did not take notice of
it.
Just. Raymond. I speak of Witherfogton par-
ticularly.
1087] ST ATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. IflSO—
Recorder. He was a witness, though every
man did know that Withcrington was. convicted.
I beg your lordships leaves to speak it, that the
Judges themselves did know that he was con-
victed and had received sentence of death.
Solicitor General. (Sir Francis Wilmington.)
The constant practice of the judges is a mighty
(occlusion.
I*C. J. What think vou, Mr. Attorney, if a
man be convicted of Felony, and afterwards
hath a general pardon, is he a witness r
Ait. Gen. Yea truly, my lord, it signifies the
same thing, my lord, as to be a freeman again.
Just. Jones. He eannot be of a jury, if he be
attainted of felony ; and the reuse* is, because
he is not ' probus et legalis homo 7' and why
he should not a* well he of a jury as a witness
I cannot understand.
Alt. Gen. There is a great deal of difference,
say lord ; a great many men may be admitted
to be witnesses, that cannot he admitted to be
jnrvmen.
Just. Jones. Shew me any man that is ex-
cluded from a jury und admitted to be a wit-
ness, except in the case of kindred.
Alt. Gen. An hundred.
L. C. J. Shew me any man who besag of a
jury was excluded, and yet made a witness.
Alt. Gem. A villain was not admitted to he a
jurymen, bat a villain was always to be a wit-
ness, and that was a point of ihJaoav.
L. C. J. What infamy was contained kk being
a villain f
Att. Gen. He waa a criminal, be was not
liber homo.'
X. C. J. But though he he not a freeman, he
may he aa honest man.
Recorder. My lord Hobart says, A pardon
take* away the guilt
L. C J. It takes away guilt so far a* he shall
never be questioned ; bat it doea not set a man
as if be bad never offended. It cannot in rea-
son be said, a man guilty of perjury is as in-
nocent as it" he had never been perjured.
Att. Gen. I say, if a man be pardoned, be is
aa if he were not guilty.
JL C. J. If I were in my lord CastleosnineS
case, I would submit it; bat when he hath
given his. testimony, my lord shell have liberty
to give in the records against him of what
crimes he hath committed.
Just. Jones. I do confess, indeed, that my
lord Hale, in bia little book " Of the Pleas of
the Crown/* saith, that a man that hath had
the benefit of his clergy is restored to his credit.
Just. Reymend. If that case be allowed,, it is
a plain case; for there is no man can wage
battel, but he that is ' liber et legalis homo.'
Recorder. A man broke prisoa, and there-
fore be could not wage battel; he replies, the
king bath pardoned me that felon v, and there-
upon he is admitted to wage battel.
Just, Jones, Where there is no judgment
given in the case, and the king doth pardaa a
man, that doth make a very great difference.
Recorder. In the case a£ Witheringtoa, my
lord chief justice did look upon the recotds, and
[1«8
afterwards said he was a good witness, and was
admitted.
Pris. If you have law by you, I sunt
conseat.
L. C. J. Then you must consent.
Recorder. There are several persons em
have had pardons after robberies, and we tne
forced to make use of some of these fellow*.
X. C. J. Before conviction.
Recorder. Ne, after conviction, my lord, I
have known a prisoner at the bar, when my
lords the judges have been there, to be a wit-
ness; and if die court had made any doobt, k
would have been a question before mis time *f
day.
Ait. Gent My lord, if yon please, Mr. Dsn-
gerfield may he sworn, if your lordship pltsses.
L.C.J. My lord shall have the benefit of ex-
cepting against his credibility.
Then Mr. Just. Raymond went'dowo to the
Court of Common Pleas* to know their opinion.
Just. Jones. Have you any other witness is
the mean time ?
Att. Gen. No> my lord, he is a principal wit*
I
Sol. Gen, Besides the common practice, hoi
ie a book that says he shall wage battel.
Just. Jones. That is, when there is a ptafaa
before conviction.
Sol. Gen. But here, my lard; he says the
Remtum is taken »ww, and then it take* assy
his disabilities too. The dinVreace can be so*
thmg here before conviction, and after; be-
cause before conviction ha is disabled frost
waffling battel: So that that males i»dinei*K*
before conviction, and other cases alter ess*
vietiea ; and the disability is taken away by
the pardon, aad be it restored to he a freest*.
JL CLJ. There is a disability upon presump-
tion, though not upon conviction.
SoL Gem. There is the same legal impedi-
ment in the one aa in the other; but hit emwt
is left to the breast of the jury.
Recorder. When a pardon comes, it tshaJ
away net only P*namy but Rtatum; and the
reason my lord Hobart gives h ■
L. C. J. Nay, give your reason.
Recorder. For felony is ' contra Corona*/*
' Dignitatem/ ie a fealt against the king; *"»
when the king pardons it, it ceases. Aad m
another . place it is said, It pasdoas on <mr
bilities incident to him.
Just. Jbner. That is before conviction, sum
L. C. J. Does not my lord Cake tell 700 1»
pressly, that the taking a pardon doth not prove
any oience? Yoa take a pardon, it 0Df^"fJ
to be concluded that you are guilty ; hat we
proper conclusion of a wise man is, tnal7*J
would be sale. It oasmot be thought that
every mam that hath, a pardon in Saghuia «
guilty of ail those offences that are there per*
doned.
Juvt. Jones. Then is a diaerence ^ween *
general pardon, and a particular paid***
When a man doth accept of a special parson,
it must t*ii»need that be hath - -— -
3
1089]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1090
ousness of $oilt> or else he would not take it ;
but he that is included in a general pardon may
be clear, because all men are included in it,
unless *ome persons particularly excepted; and
the difference is taken in that very point, from
accepting a general and a special pardon.
, X. C. J. That the acceptance of a general
pardon doth not barely of itself intend men to
t>e guilty of the crimes, is plain, and the reason
is most apparent; for besides that men be safe,
so there be times that give a reason why men
should have a pardon, because no man knows
when he is safe ; perjury so abounds that no
man can say he is safe, and that is a reason why
men should be very willing to accept of par-
dons.
CI. of Cr. Here is my lord Hale's Book about
the Pleas of the Crown.
Recorder. He says, When the king hath dis-
charged and pardoned him, he hath cleared
the person of the crime and infamy.
Just. Janet. It is so, oo doubt.
Sol. Gen, May we, pass upon these autho-
rities?
Just. Jonet. Sir Francis, we are not willing
to go about it till it be concluded ; for that
purpose we have desired my brother Raymond
to know the Judges Opinions of the Common-
Fleas.
Recorder. He doth expressly say, It hath
restored him to his credit ; and in Withering-
ton's case he did call for the very records.
Att. Gen, If it restore him to his credit, I
hope it shall not blemish him so much when he
is sworn, that he shall not be believed.
. X. C. J. We will not have any prepossession
in that case, his crimes shall be all taken notice
of; is it fit to have men guilty of all sorts of
villainies, and not to observe it ?
Just. Jones. In that very case my lord Ho-
bart says, A man may say of a paYdoned man,
be was a felon, though he cannot say now he is
• felon ; and now what can be objected to this
case?
„ Recorder. Things may be objected against a
person, and his credit left to the jury ; but the
question now is, Whether he shall be a witness
or no?
L. C. J. We have men grown so insolent,
they behave themselves with that vile insolence,
that now they take upon them to speak against
whole societies of men : as if so be there were
any thing in them that should render them
better than their former lives or natures. Hu-
mility becomes penitents, and no wicked man
is supposed to be a penitent that hath not that ;
but these carry it with that insolency, as if they
were not concerned themselves, when God
knows the best of them discover what they do,
by being but parties themselves.
[Mr. Justice Raymond returned from the
court of Common-Pleas.]
L.CsJ. I will tell you what my brethren *s
, opinions are ; he hath put it to them on both
Accounts, That be was convicted of felony, ami
^urnt in the hand for it;, that he was outlawed
you vii.
for felony, and hath a general pardon. They
say they are of opinion, That a general pardon
would not restore him to be a witness after an
outlawry for felony, because of the interest that
the king's subjects have in him. But they say
further, that where a man comes to be burnt in
the band, there they look upon that as a kind
of a more general discharge than the pardon
alone would amount to, if he had not been burnt
in the hand. They say if he had been convict*
ed of felony, and not burnt in the hand, the
pardon would not have. set him upright: but
being convicted and burnt in the hand, they
suppose he is a witness4.
Sol. Gen. Swear Mr. Dangerfield.
X. C. J. The very attainder is taken away,
and so all is gone.
Alt. Gen. Come, Mr. Dangerfield, are you
sworn ?
Dangerfield. Yes, sir.
Ait. Gen. Pray tell what you know of my
lord Castlemaine.
X. C. J. I perceive my brethren's opinions
is, That if a man were convicted of perjury, if
there be no burning in the hand ia the case,
that a pardon could not set him upright, because
of the interest of the people in the thing.
Att. Gen. Come, Mr. Dangerfield, are yon
sworn?
Dangerfield. Yes, sir.
Att. Gen. Then pray say what you do know
of my lord Castlemaine.
Dangerfield. About this time twelvemonth,
my lady Powis sent me with a letter for the pri-
soner at the bar, my lord Castlemaine.
X. C. J. Don't you know him ?
Dangerfield. Yes, my lord, this is the person.
And, my lord, the contents of that letter I
know not : but his lordship made me stay till
he wrote an answer, and the contents of the an-
• swer, my lord, were to this effect : for I returned
I with the answer to the lady Powis, and she
opened and read it while I was present.
X. C. J. Aloud ?
Dangetjield. Aloud, my lord.
X. C. J. To you ?
Dangerfield. To me.
X. C. J. Who was there?
Dangerfield. Mrs. Ccllier was there besides.
And the contents of this letter were, ' This
person I like well, and though he he no scholar,
he will serve to instruct the youths as he shall
be directed.' By the youths were meaut the
St. Omers witnesses.
X. C. J. How do you know ?
Dangerfield. Because I know my lord was
employed for that purpose. I know his lordship
did use to instruct the yootfcs ; and it was -a
common saying among them, when one of them
was out of his part, they used to say, 1 must go
to my lord Castlemaine.
* See the objection which was taken in this
Case to Dangerfield'* admissibility considered
in different places in Mr. Hargrave's Argument
on the effect of the king's pardon of perjury,
cited in a note to Cellier's Case, ante, p. 1062.
4A
109!] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chakles II. mo.^Trial qftht EarltfCuttlemainc, [109*
L.C.J. What part ?
Dangerfield. That which they were to say ;
and one of them did say, I am out. of my lesson,
i must go to my Lord Castlemaine.
X. C. J. When did he say ao ?
DangerJUid. Before the trial, my lord ; and
ray lord Castlemaine went along with tl<eni to
the trial, aud his lordship complained of some
ill usage that the witnesses received there.
His lordship was one of the persons that em-
ployed me to get Lane out of the Gate-house,
my lord, and*his lordship sent me to a solicitor
of hit, whose name was Mr. Lawson (the per-
son is now in court), to take an account how
far be had proceeded in this affair. I did take
an account, and I proceeded in it afterwards,
and got him discharged.
L. C. J. How came you into my lord's ac-
quaint auce ?
Dangerfield. That was (he first time, when
my lady Po wis sent mt with that letter, my lord.
A prefy while after this, in the month of July
I went to wait upon his lordship at his house
at Charing-Cross, the same place where I found
his lordship before ; and I was to take his ad-
vice about some letters that came from one
Nevil alias Paine. Those letters and lists of
names I shewed his lordship, and he gave his
approbation of them, and desired good store of
copies might be writ : for it was of consequence,
and ought not to be neglected. And asked
me, are there working persons employed in that
business ? and said he, encourage them, and I
will pay my part. So my lord, after there
were a great number of copies writ of these
letters, I writ a letter to my lord Castlemaine
to let his lordship know tbat the people had
finished their work, and that there was some-
thing more to be done as a gratuity ; and then
his lord^ip in answer to this messenger (who is
here also in court) with a letter his lord-
ship sent 40*. for his part. And Mrs. Cellier
told me she received 40s. and disposed of it to
the use intended ; now, my lord, the contents
of these letters were to the same effect with
those letters and loose papers which I conveyed
into colonel Mansel's chamber ; and these all
tended to the promoting the sham Plot, my
ford.
L. C. J. Pray tell me what was the subject
of these letters; what was the substance of
them?
DangerJUid. To the promoting the Sham-Plot,
sny lord.
L. C, J. That is a general nobody knows
what to make of.
Dangerfield. 1 will give your lordship an ac-
count in particular : the contents of many of
them were to this purpose.
L. C. J. Were they not all alike ?
Dangerfield* The copies were the same, and
there were so maqy originals to draw copies
from.
L. C. J. Were not the originals all to the
same purpose?
Dangerfield. Agreeable in point of sense.
X.C.X Pray tell us the purpose of them ?
Dangerfield. The purpose was, that so many
letters should be conveyed into the houses of
several persons of quality in this kingdom, that
were called Presbyterians : For that was tho
notion, that all persons that were not the im-
mediate promoters of the Catholic interest, lay
under; because they looked upon tbat notiosv
to be most obnoxious.
L. C. J. VVho and where ?
Dangerfield. In general, mv lord.
L. C. J. In general, where r
Dangerfield. By my lady Powis, and the
lords in the Tower.
L. C. J. Were you by when the lords in the
Tower did agree to it ?
Dangerfield. When my lord Petre and my
lord Arundel did.
L. C. J. What did they agree to ?
DangerJUid. My lord, the thing is this:
after they received an account from one Mr.
Paine, I brought a billet from .that Paine;
wherein was contained a ground or scheme of
the Presbyterian-Plot; so from thence it de-
rived it's first name, my .lord : so tbat when I
came to discourse with the lords in the Tower
about it, they called it the Presbyterian-Plot ;
and Mrs. Cellier and the lady Powis said, this is
a notion that will do the business, as it is most
obnoxious, and as best to our purpose.
Just. Jones. How far was my lord Castle*
oiaine concerned in this?
Dangerfield. I have not heard his lordship
speak of it under that notion.
L. C. J. Pray let us hear what yon can say
against my lord Castlemaine. •»
Dangerfield. Now, my lord, some consider-
able time after I bad gotten Lane out of prison,
I was employed by several other persous, his
lordship was one, and he sent me to his lord-
ship's solicitor, that is now in court. A pretty
while after this, and the letters and lists of
names, containing matter to the same effect as
I told you before, as those in Mansel's chamber,
and all tending to the credit of the Sham- Plot,
or the Presbyterian-Plot: Now, my lord, a
pretty while after this, in August, as near as I
can remember ; about the middle of August,
I went to wait upon his lordship the very next
day after I had been treated withal in the
Tower to kill the king, whom God preserve,
my lord ; and his lordship had a servant then
in the room, and ho sent his servant down
stairs, and looked upon me with a very austere
countenance t said he, why would you offer to
refuse the business for which yon were taken
out of prison ?
L. €. J. To you ?
Dangerfield. To me, my lord.
L. C. J. Who was by ?
Dangerfield. Nobody but his lordship, and
myself; lor he sent his servant out before: so
he asked me, why J would offer to refuse the
business I was taken out of prison for ? I asked
his lordship, what that was ? said he, was not
you at the Tower yesterday ? yes, my lard, I
was. Would your lordship have me kill the
king, I suppose that is the business r Yes, Unit
1093]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.-/or High Trtason.
(1 094
is, said be. Upon which my lord fell into such
a fury, that I was forced rudely to leave the
room, and went down stairs. I think at the
same time his lordship was writing the compen-
dium of the late plot ; for there I saw some
words in a paragraph that lay upon the table,
which I afterwards saw in that book. There
was ink set upon the table, and open in his
lordship s hand. And his lordship did use in
bis discourse to call his majesty tyrant
X. C. J. Have you Heard him f in what com-
pany?
Dangerfield. To his familiar discourse. As
to ask when his majesty will return, from
Windsor? says he, when the tyrant pleases.
And I remember I heard his lordship mention
the word tyrant to Mrs. Cellier at Powis-
bouse.
Alt. Gen. How came that discourse about
killing the king ? what was the occasion of that
discourse ?
X. C. X Had you refused it to my lord ?
Dangerfield. Yes, my lord, I refused.
X. C. X What did you say to him ?
Dangerfield, I said, Any body but my king,
my lord.
X. C. X He said, why did you refuse to do
that for which you were taken out of prison ?
what is that> my lord ? was not you at the
Tower yesterday ? why won't you do it ? what
is it, my lord? is it to kill the king? I suppose
that it is, saith he, that your lordship intend^.
Yes, says he, that is it, why won't you do it ?
that is what he says.
Att. Gen. That is the evidence we give.
Just. Janes. You say he was very violent ?
X C. X Was you ever in his company af-
terwards?
Dangerfield. No, not after- that, my lord,
that 1 know of.
X C. X What kind of fury did he shew you
at that time ?
Dangerfield. My lord, he was in a great rage,
as his lordship is very choleric ; be was bustling
about, and I knew not what he intended to do,
and I was unwilling to stand the test of his
anger. His lordship seemed by his look to
be meditating revenge.
X. C.J. How?
Dangerfield. I say this, after his lordship had
sent his servant out of the room, said he, why
would you offer to refuse the business for which
you were takeu out of prison ? said he, were
not you at the Tower yesterday ? said 1, yes,
my iord, I was. Would you have me kill the
king? is that the business? Yes, that it is, said
my -lord very angrily.
Frit. When did you go to the Tower? was
this the next day after it ?
Dangerfield. The next day after it.
Pris. Fray let me ask you one question.
Did not 1 threaten to kill yon, or have some
of my servants kill you, if you came unto me
' again ?
Dangerfield. One time his lordship saw me
at my lady Powis's house and he shewed me a
very particular favour. J speak it in the pre-
sence of Almighty God, nothing out of revenge,
nor for any sort of interest.
Pris. w*as I never angry with you but at that
time ?
Dangerfield. No, my lord, I know not of
any other time that your lordship was angry.
X. C. J. Now, what say you, my lord ?
Pris. The first thing I desire to do rs, here
are two gentlemen give in evidence against me,
the one is Mr. Oates and the otfier Mr„ Dan-
gerfield. Mr. Oates says, TH at he in Spain
did see several letters from me : That when lie
came over into England, he brought a letter
from Spain to me, that (hat letter was given to
the provincial, and the provincial*(he supposes)
gave it to me. Now, my lord, I only desire
this, that the first thiug that shall be done, is,
that you will please to call Mr. Parker, who
will shew you what a kind of man Mr. Oates is.
And I am glad, since you say that Mr. Danger*
field is a good witness, that I can pro\e that
every word he says is a lie. And so begin with
Mr. Oates.
Pris. I would offer you a Record, a Record
of some particular actions from Hastings.
X. C. J. Read the Record.
[The Record read.]
X. C. X What use can you make of this ?
Pris. My lord, the case is only this, my lord,
1 will tell you, here in Mr. Oates, this is onlv to
6hew what kind of man this Mr. Oates is. Mr.
Oates he comes and accuses a man at Hastings
for buggery, there he is indicted and comes to
his trial, and then he is found innocent : Now^
my lord, I sent for this Mr. Parker, to tell
your lordship what kind of man this Mr. Oates
was, and for that purpose shew the whole pro-
ceeding.
X. C. X My lord, you shall have all the
justice in the world ; but we must have right
done to the king's evidence. You have brought
in a thing, whereby ail you -can make against
Mr. Oates is this, that he was the prosecutor
of a man for the crime of buggery, and is sup-
posed to have taken his oath there, and nob-
withstanding the jury would not believe him,
and found the man Not Guilty.
Pris. My lord, I come to shew you the mo-
tives how the jury came to clear him, that is,
by proving this man was in another place at
that time, and satisfied the court and jury, that
ho was from eleven o'clock or sooner, till eight
or ten o'clock with them in company ; where
it was only the malice that was between Oates
and Parker ; and several witnesses that were
in the place where he said the buggery was
committed, said that ht was not there; and
the witnesses positively said they were with
him, and all looked upon Mr. Oates as a de-
testable man, and sent him out of the Court.
L.C. J. Do you prove this by any but
Parker?
Justice Raymond. This ought not to be ad-
mitted ; for if it be, Mr. Oates stands here to
answer all the faults that ever be committed.
X. C. X Here is the case ; Supposing it be
1095] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. !§SO.— Trial oftfc Earl of Castlemainc, [1096
true now, that Mr. Oatee prosecuted a man for
felony, and he gave testimony, supposing it
should be so, and vet the jury acquitted him ;
what use can you make of it ? You can make
no inference ; it is a thing we must allow all
the juries in England : for there is witness ge-
nerally given on both sides ; and when there
are for the plaintiff, tbe defendant's evidence
are all perjured; and when for the defendant
the plaintiff's evidence are perjured.
Pris. My lord, this is the inference. Thus
much I make of it, that this Parker is innocent.
Oates swears positively he did so, the other
swears positively this man was not there ; to
shew the malice Oates had against him.
X. C. J. My lord, you can go no further
than you have gone. The result of all is, that
the jury found him Not Guilty; for what
grounds no man can come to say, but the jury-
men themselves. No man can tell what pre-
vailed with the jury to find him Not Guilty,
that is in their own consciences, and these are
things that cannot be examined. His jury, not-
withstanding Mr. Oates was the only prosecu-
tor, they found him Not Guilty, and it amounts
to nothing.
Pris. My lord, there is another thing: while
this man was in prison, what does Oates do,
but comes here to London, accuses tbe father,
who was a considerable man in the town, a jus-
tice of die peace, and mayor the year before ;
accuses nim because he should not assist his
son ; accuses him before the king of speaking
scandalous words ; then he gets him bv a mes-
senger brought up before the council : The
king was present at the hearing, and there it
was proved to the king, as tbe order of council
shews, that he was an honest man, and so the
council sent Oates away with the greatest con-
tempt, and freed the other man.
X. C. J. Was this before the Plot was dis-
covered ?
Pris. Yes, my lord, in pursuance of it.
X. C. J. You said it was that he should not
help his son, his bon was not free.
Pris. No, he was in prison, my lord*
Recorder. My lord may tfri ,k it ImhI if he
hath not some competent liberty; but he must
keep to the business. You say, that notwith-
standing he hath the opinion of the Court, that
the jury must take notice; then the jury must
take notice it signifies nothing.
Pris. Very well. Having told you this, I
desire you would be pleased to take notice,
after Oates was thus forced to ran away
frjm Hastings, here it seems he was converted
to be a Papist, by a person whom Mr. Oates
hath since converted to be a Protestant ; and
you shall see what an account this gentleman
will give of him.
X. C. J. What is his name?
Pris. Hutchinson*
X. C. J. What will you do against him ?
Pris. Several things, my lord.
X. C. J. You must not do it : If you are
able to disprove Mr. Oates in any of these par-
ticulars, you may do it. If you alledge testi-
mony against the particular matter he hath
sworn, you will do very well; but pray, mj
lord, keep to that.
Pris. I will, my lord ; I will submit any
thing to your lordship's commands ; and there-
fore, my lord, I will tell you for what reason I
sent for this roan, to tell you how Mr. Otttt
went to Spain, and how he lived in Spain.
X. C. J. If you can shew the jury any rea-
son why they should not believe his evidence,
that will be very proper.
X. C. J. What is your name ?
Hutchinson. My name is Hutchinson.
Pris. Mr. Hutchinson, pray say what yon
have to say, and not follow Mr. Oates's me-
thod : I only ask you this question, Sir, whether
you did convert this man, that is, reconcile bin
to the Church of Rome f
Hutchinson. Yes, my lord, that I did.
X. C. X You ought not to ask him sock
questions, you bring him in danger of bis life;
you are not to ask him such questions.
Recorder. Let us see the Statute- BoaV-
CI. of Cr. It is High Treason.
X. C. J. You thought this had been merito-
rious now, and it is High Treason.
Recorder. This it is to abound in a mail's
own sense. We must beg your lordship's ad*
vice in this.
X. C. X Are you a Protestant now ?
Hutchinson. Yes, my lord.
Pris. He was a priest, and confesses his
error.
X. C. J. Did you know Oates first in Spain J
Hutchinson. No, my lord, I knew him hnt
here ; and we were in company, and I told bis)
he could not be a true priest, since be was of
the Cherch of England.
Att. Gen. lie offers such things as are not
evidence.
X. C. J. Pray what do you know of hisea-
, plovment in Spain ?
Hutchinson. I received letters from hm
when he was in Spain. He went over to stsoy
philosophy and divinity there, and I saw bs) re-
commendations to the rector of Liege.
X. C. J. Did you see him ? .
Hutchinson. Yes, my lord, I did see him be-
fore he made this disturbance. ,
X. C. J. What disturbance f Do you knowf
What discourse had you with him ?
Hutchinson. I employed him in writing tor
me.
X. C. J. Writing what ?
Hutchinson. In writing certain things agsiast
the corruption o/ the Church of Rome, n*
bad 10s. I gave him, and this was beforep**
discovery he made (as be pretends) of the Fwt.
And he tofd me he would suffer no more »'
conscience-sake: it is an hard thing) saral*»
Mr. Berry, for a man to want bread ; apo"
which I gave him 10*; . ,
X. C. J. He says, having been formerly w>«
Mr. Oates, he employed him to transcribe msay
things for him ; and Mr. Oates said to too*
« He was resolved no more to sufer for con-
science sake. How, saith be, not so? Oh, W
mrr\
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1098
Mr. Berry, said be, it is a very sad thing to want
'bread.1 And upon that, he says, he ga?e him
lOt. for his pains in writing.
Hutchinson. And hereupon, my lord, in May
was twelvemonth he sent for roe, when I beard
he had done some more mischief; and I went
to him, my lord.
X. C. J. That was after the discovery ?
Hutchinson. Yes, my lord, upon that he was
very kind to me, and gave rue 30*. Said he,
Mr. Berry, you have been civil to me, and you
shall never want any thing so long as I have it.
Said I, Mr. Oates, are these things true that
you swear against the Jesuits ? Said he, As I
hope for salvation they are. And that was the
truest word he spake these three years. Then,
said 1, Mr. Oates, answer me this only one
thing. There are 120 persons that saw you
every day, and dined and supped with you at
St. Omers, and these you have recommended
to me for virtuous people, and I know them to
be so He said, They are outlawed men.
X. C. J. What did Mr. Oates say more ?
Hutchinson. He was with me frequently, my
lord.
Recorder. He paid your Angel well when he
gave you 20s.
Hutchinson. Mr. Oates, speak the truth :
' there is a God in heaven.
OateM. Shall I be allowed to satisfy the court
as to this evidence P I will ' give the court a
very good account.
X. C. J. The substance is this ; that you
were poor. Is it true that he pave you 10s. ?
Oates. My lord, I believe I might not have
much money among them.
X. C. J. And you said, You would suffer no
more for conscience sake ?
Oates. That is not so, my lord.
X. C. J. And, That it is an hard thing to
want bread ?
Oates. My lord, I never wanted bread.
' Hutchinson. But you said so to me, Mr.
Oates.
• Att. Gen. Hark, Mr. Hutchinson
Oates. To shew the invalidity of this evi-
dence, my lord, the bishop of London hath
turned him out of his living at Barkin.
X. C. J. What is that ?
Oatts. To shew that he is not fit to be
trusted.
X. C. J. Why, you have never a living.
Oates. Yes, I have, my lord.
L.C.J. Where?
m Oates. In Kent, my lord.
X. C. J. How long have you had it?
Oates. I was restored to it last summer.
- Recorder. He says that he had discourse
with him concerning his priesthood ; whether
Mr. Oates thought himself to be a good priest ;
that is, as he was made by the order of the
Church of England ?
Att. Gen. He says, He converted Mr. Oates
to be a papist.
Oates. And I have a charge of high-treason
against that man, for seducing me from my re-
Mgion, my lord ; I will swear be turned me to
the Church of Rome, and I desire it may be
recorded.
Dr. D. I have one thing to tell your lord-
ship, the man is mad, he is distracted.
X. C. J. This doctor of divinity is a very
honest' man, be will tell you.
Dr. D. He was my curate at Barkin, and'
my lord of London having some information
against the manner of his preaching, sent me
word to Rippon He would provide me another
curate ; on Saturday last, dining with him, my
lord told me he was distracted.
Recorder. His behaviour is a very concurrent
testimony.
Justice Raymond. I appeal to my lord, if t
did not tetl him, as he came into the court,
that he was a distracted man.
X. C. J. Call another witness.
Pris. Here is a gentleman was his school*
fellow at Valladolid. I ask you, Mr. Armstrong,
Whether you knew any thing of Mr. Oates
there? >
X. C. J. How long had he been there ?
Armstrong. He was three months there
before me.
L. C. J. How long was he there in all ?
Armstrong. A matter of a month.
X. C J. Was he not there four months.
Armstrong. Yes a matter of four months
in all.
, X. C. J. He says, he had been there three
months before he came, and a month after be
came -T and that then he was but a common
scholar.
Oates. My lord, I will satisfy the court when
they question me.
X. C. J. In what would yoo satisfy as ?
Oates. About being a scholar. I was ready
to commence when they came ; but being they
were strangers in the town, not being town-
scholars, and not undertaking philosophical dic-
tates, the fathers did pray me to shew them the
way to school ; and I went with them two or
three limes.
X. C. J Call another, my lord.
Pris. Mr. Palmer and Mr. Doddington.
X. C. J. Did you know Mr. Oates at St.
Omers f
Palmer. Yes, my lord, and be was an ordi-
nary scholar there, and dined and supped wiub
us.
X. C. J. You said he dined at another table.
Palmer. Yes, my lord, he did d:ne at a table
by himself, but it was at the same time.
Oat<s. Had I scholars commons i pray, mj
lord, ask them that.
Palmer. He had the same commons that we
had; but they had a respect for him, as he was
an ancienter man, and that was the reason thai
he had more freedom than the rest.
Pris. My lord, he says he came from St..
Omers at the consult: Pray, Sir, who did
you come along with ? Did you come with
Hilsley ?
Oates. Hilsley came with me in the pacquet-
boat.
Pris. CaU Mr. Hilsley and Osborne. My
1009] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680,— Trial of the Earl qf Castleuuune, [lIOO
lord, this gentleman — I would bring no-
thing to offend your lordship, or nothing that
hath been old, if it had not some new inference
from it ; therefore, my lord, this is the reason
that I sent for Mr. Hilsley* Mr. Hilsley, did
you come with Mr. pates in April in the pac-
quet-boat? — Hihley. No, my lord.
Pris. Yon left him at St. Omers ?
Hihley. Yes, my lord.
Pris. Now, my lord, I have several witnesses
to prove this. And pray, Mr. Osborne, tell
my lord what he said to you.
Osborne. My lord, about the latter end of
April I heard Mr. Hilsley was in town ; I went
to see him, and one time at a coffee-house about
the Turnstile we fell in discourse.
L. C. J. My lord, you say you have two per-
sons of quality : I will tell you, my lord, what
you shall expect ; I will not be for one, and
not for the other; but be equal as near as I
can. If he comes only to testify what Hilsley
told him it signifies nothing.
Pris. I do depend upon Hilsley ; but this is
that Hilsley told him, that there was one Oates
at St. Omers.
L. C. J. That is no evidence, nor can ladies
of quality prove by their own experience what
Mr. Hilsley affirms that Oates came not over
with him.
Pris. Mv lord, they can tell; and one lady,
a protestant> that talking with this gentleman
.before the pM
L. C. J. Tins is only discourse what another
man says; if Mr Oates himself should have
said so, then indeed it is proper: But to shew
you this, it is impossible, supposing thev speak
truth; that is, if they do witness what they do
not, that long before they heard of the name of
Oates, this gentleman should tell them, one
Oates was left at St. Omers ; it signifies no-
thing. N
Pris. Does not that confirm Mr. Hilsley's
testimony ?
X. C. J. No, indeed.
Pris. I only refer this to you, my lord;
Hilsley says, in April he did leave Oates, and
here are four or five witnesses that Hilsley told
them so'.
Justice Jones. All that my lord says, is this,
that he did leave Mr. Oates at St. Omers. If
it be objected, ihey are catholics, as they call
them; says ray lord, Hilsley did tell his story
before there was any plot. Why should be tell
them so? It is not in favour of that religion
that he speaks; but the time of testifying
such a thing shows he speaks true. This
is all.
Pris. This is the inference ; this is only to
corroborate and shew you the credit of his tes-
timony.
Justice Raymond. It may be a mistake,
though, and it is of no more force than what he
says now.
Att. Gen. They were all mistaken in that
matter.
Oates. My lord, he did leave me at St. Omers,
hut I overtook ham at Calais.
L. C. J. Will you swear it, Mr. Oates?
Oates. I say, upon my oath I did it.
L. C. J. It were a great matte.' if you had
any body to prove, that this gentleman came
alone; but that is still but one man's testi-
mony.
Pris. But here is confirmation to bis evidence
that he could not invent it.
Att. Gen. You had 16 once, but the contrary
was proved and believed, and so it may be
again.
Pris. Call Mr. Gregson and Mr. Rigby.
Mr. Gregson, were not you landlord to Mr.
Oates, before the plot was discovered? How
long before the plot did he lie at your house ?
L. C. J. What time?
Gregson, A week before Easter, 1677.
Justice Raymond. When did he go away
from you, sir?
Gregson. The Sunday after Easter-day.
Justice Raymond. When did you' see him
again?
Gregson. He came to me about All Saints.
Justice Raymond. The same year ?
Gregson. Yes.
Oates. Who paid for my quarters? Pray ask
him that, my lord.
Gregson. He paid for it himself.
Oates. Did not Mr. Fenwick pay for it ?
Gregson. He did after you came from St.
Omers.
Oates. My lord, when I came last from St.
Omers, I went directly to his house.
Pris. Was not he in a poor coudition?
Gregson. He was then indifferently poor.
Pris. My lord, this is only to prove his con*
dition.
Oates. My lord, I had only what the Jesuits
allowed me.
L. C. J. You had nothing but what tbey al-
lowed you ?
Oa'es. Nothing else, my lord.
Justice Jones. They allowed 'you a very scan*
ty living.
Pi is. Call Mr. Littcott. Mr. Littcott, do
you know any thing about a divorce ?
L. C. J. What should he know ?
Pris. Pray, my lord, don't discourage roe.
Justice Raymond. But you must not ask
things that are not to the purpose.
Littcott. My lord, it was morally impossible
there should he a divorce.
L. C. J. Was there any endeavour by my
lord concerning it*
IMtcott. There was no such design.
L. C. J. How was that ? But pray mind, you
will be morally not believed else: Do you
know my lord used any endeavours, in order to
obtain a divorce ? *
Recorder. That is all that be says, * he never
knew any thing/ <*
Pris. I only say this, my lord, Mr. Oates
comes here and says, that he heard me say, that
I did spend a great deal of money. Now if I
satisfy the court that I never spent a farthing
towards a divorce
X. C. J. If he bad said, your lordship laid
1101] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— /or High Treason.
[1102
out sans of money, then it had been an an-
swer to chat, if you could prove you had not.
Pris. You know I stand here accused for a'
great crime ; pray give me leave.
Justice Raymond. If-it were a matter of mo-
ment, we would.
Pris. Pray, my lord, hear me : Here is a
man says, I spent a great deal of money about
a divorce ? I come to tell your lordship, that
this very man, before your lordships, and also
before the king, and if yoar lordships havs
forgot it, I will shew you witnesses that he
space it before the king, and before the house of
commons, that I did actually sue out a divorce :
Now [ will shew, my lord, that I neither could,
nor did go about it.
X. C. J. We are not to take notice of that
now. If he did say a false thing before the
House of Commons, we cannot take notice of it
now ; for we cannot go to try whether he said
so, and whether that be true or false.
Pris. I humbly beg, mv lord, if this man that
is upon oath hath sworn before the king that he
did actually see the divorce, and I prove that
it was impossible that he should see tne divorce,
because it was impossible to get a divorce—'
X. C. J. What then ?
Just. Raymond. You most not be permitted
to prove that, it is not pertinent to the question.
Pris. My lords, with humble submission to
you, he hath told me this before your lordships,
that I spent a great deal of money about a
divorce.
X. C. J. My lord, you will be satisfied, when
we have acquainted you what the ordinary
proceedings of a court of justice are in matters
of this nature : what is and what is not to be
admitted. If you should come to prove Mr.
Oates had falsely sworn a thing in another court,
and five or six witnesses shall come and say it
is not true ; we are not to hearken to it. The
reason is this : First, you must have him per-
jured, and we are not now to try, whether that
thing sworn iu another place be true or false :
Because that is the way to accuse whom vou
please ; and that may make a man a liar, that
cannot imagine this will be put to him : And
so no man's testimony that comes to be a wit-
ness, shall leave himself safe. And this is ano-
ther case, if he swore in another place what is
contradictory to what he says now ; then it is
proper. If you could prove that he had sworn
in another place that he never saw you, it is
very proper : But now to us he says, that he
doth not remember whether ever he had seen
a divorce, or that you had sued out a divorce.
AH that he remembers is, that yon said you had
expended a great deal of money about a divorce,
and this is all he testifies here.
Pris. My lord, my evidence against Mr.
Oates is this, that he waves what he said before,
when I came to ask him, and says, I do not re-
member. Now, my lord, if he lies in one
thing he may in another.
Just. Raymond. No man can remember all
the things that ever he did in his life.
Pris. I have witnesses to appeal to, to
witness every thing ; and I represent it hers to
you, that I would with all my heart have in-
dicted him of perjury, but for Mr. Attorney
General : For I employed two to attend the
clerk of the peace for copies of the indictment
against Mr. Langhom and Mr. Ireland ; they
did come to the clerk of the peace, sait-
the clerk of the peace I cannot do it with-
out Mr. Attorney's authority. My lord,
saith he, I would give them you with all my
heart, but I must have leave from the table.
Att. Gen. No, my lord, I told you I would
not give it you without vou had an order from
the king, and the council did not think fit to
give it you.
Pris. I think this a little pertinent. '
Just. Jones. How doth any thing that your
lordship excepts against in this gentleman's
testimony contradict itself? All that yon ac-
cuse him of is, that Mr. Oates had saicl he
heard you say, you had spent a great deal of
money about a divorce.
Pris. I only shew, if you are pleased to hear
it, that he reported to the king that he actually
saw the divorce.
Just. Jones. That agrees well enough with
what he says now.
Pris. He said so in your lordships' hearing.
X. C. J. I do not remember it, if I did I
would speak of it ; I do not remember it, upon
my word.
Just. Raymond. I protest I do not remem-
ber a word.
Just. Jones. In the court, did he say it ?
Just. Raymond. Here we have all three that
were present, I protest I do not remember it ;
but as to the business of the divorce, I might
look upon it as impertinent, and so possibly
might not mind what he said.
Pris. I only offer this to you ; and if your
lordships command me to desist, I will desist.
Oates. I desire my evidence to prove that I
was in town.
Just. Raymond. Pray, Mr. Oates, you are)
an evidence, you must i>e governed ' by Mr.
Attorney.
X. C. J. It would be very fit, Mr. Attorney,
to prove that Mr. Oates (fid come over with
Hilsley in the packet-boat.
Just. Raymond. Mr. Oates, I remember
very well, gave an account of his coming over;
said he, I did come over with such and such
persons, and among the rest was Mr. Hilsley.
This is only to prove that he was at the consult.
Att. Gen. We can prove it.
Records produced agaiost Mr. Dangerfield.
X. C. J. Here is, that he was burnt in the
hand, and outlawed for felony, pilloried for
cheating, twice pilloried ; and see whether
he was whipped or no.
Sol. Gen. I know nothing of the pillory.
Just. Raymond. Here was a record of being
burnt in the hand, and a record for putting
away false guineas.
X. C. J. For that he was to stand in the pu>
lory.
1106] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chkklks U. \6SO.— Trial tf the Earl tfCuUlenrninc, [\\M
CL of Cr. Here is one record for another
shilling gilt.
L. C. J. Was that in the pillory too ?
AtU Gen. He was fined fifty pounds.
CL of Cr. Here are three in Salisbury for
three several guineas, and be was adjudged to
the pillory fur them all.
Att. den. It was all at one assizes, my lord.
L.C. J. My brother tried him.
CL of Cr. He was tried before Mr. Just.
Jones, and to stand in the pillory for all three.
X. C. /. What have you else to say ?
Pris. Call Mrs. Cellier and Mr. Dowdal.
L. C. /. What is your name, sir?
Dowdal. My name is Bennet Dowdal.
X. Cm J. What have you to say to him, my
lord?
Pris. Mr. Dowdal, the case is this, Mr.
Dangerfield tells me I was angry with him at
such a time for a business at my house ; was I
not angry with him at Powis house for going to
the lords in the Tower ?
Att. Gen. Then he did go about it ?
Dowdal. Mrs. Cellier spake to me to speak
to Mr. Dangerfield not to be troubled at your
auger.
Just. Raymond. When was this ?
Dowdal. After the Jesuits died.
Pris. He proves this, That Mrs. Cellier
spake to him to pacify Mr. Dangerfield, and
Dangerfield did tell him I was angry with him
for goinein my name to the Lords.
Just. Raymond. He says no such thing, my
lord.
X. C. J. You must not ask him what Mrs.
Cellier said.
Cellier. This day twelve- month he and I had
been employed in writing copies of some let-
ters, and I sent him to my lord to know if he
would go something towards the printing them,
and he went from him to the lords in the Tower.
In an hour and half after, my lord came to me
very angry: Mrs. Cellier, said he, I thought
you would not forfeit your discretion to send
such a rascal to me ; if you send him to me
again, I will bid my servants kick him. And,
said I to Mr. Dangerfield, you are not to note
that ; for be is a very good man, and may be
angry one time and pleased another ; and I
would .have sent him another time, and said he,
pray, madam, do not send me thither, I would
rather go an hundred miles of your errand.
X. C.J. Dangerfield, That discourse you bad
with my lord, was it before the Jesuits died, or
after?
Dangerfield. What discourse?
X. C. J. When you discoursed about killing
the king.
Dangerfield. No, my lord, two months after.
\ L.C.X. When was the time that these
words were spoken ?
Dangerfield. When his lerdship was in that
passion.
X. C. J. When fas that ?
Dangerfield. My lord, it was about the mid*
aUeof Aacast.
X. C. X Was you ever in his company after?
Dangerfield. No, my lord, I saw him once
at Powis house.
X. C. J. Had he ever been angry before?
Dangerfield. No, not till this time, my laid
X. C. J. Here Mrs. Cellier witnesses, that
this day twelve-month, my lord was extreme);
angry» insomuch, that when she would have bad
you go on an errand, you would not.
Dangerfield. My lord, that time I had bees
with my lord Ca&Ueroaioe, I went home to Mm
Cellier's house, which I did then call my borne,
and said I, my lord Castlemaine is most rio*
lently angry with roe.
X. C. J. When was this ?
Dangerfield. This was the latter end of An-
gus t.
X. C. J. But she talks of this time twelve-
month.
Dangerfield. It is no such thing, my lord.
Cellier. I said, pray carry this letter to sty
lord Castlemaine : Pray excuse roe, said be, I
had rather go an hundred miles than go bj his
door,
X. C. X Whereas Dangerfield says, he bad
this discourse in August, Mrs. Cellier says is
June or July; this day twelve-month particu-
larly she gave him a letter, and be said, Pray
excuse roe, I would go an hundred miles for
you ; but I would not go into my lord's com*
pan y again if I could help it.
Pris. My lord, Mr. Dowdal can tell it.
X. C. J. Did he acknowledge to you mj
lord's anger in the beginning of July ?
Dowdal. It was within a week after the Je-
suits died.
X. C. J. I do not know that.
Dowdal. It was about the 91st of Jane.
X. C. J. Here are two Witnesses, one «»
in June or the beginning of July ; says Mrs.
Cellier, this day twelve-month he came sod
told me, my lord was eitremely angry wiia
him. And she would afterwards have bad bio
carried a letter: But he said, Pray eicusem«i
I would go an hundred miles, but he would oot
go again to him if he could help it. And Dow-
dal says, he told him about that time of 07
lord's anger with him. •
Att. Gen. Hold your tongue, Mr. Danger-
field.
Just. Raymond. What Jesuits?
Dowdal. The five Jesuits. .
Pris. If you please, my lords, I *°uW 0DV
tell you this. My lords, you see that these two .
witnesses testify that I was smerj with su. ,
Dangerfield in June; my lords, I only say »•
to you, that when 1 was examined at the coos-
cil before the king of this particular, my to*
chancellor asked him the particulars of it, »**
he did confess this thing which I now pro".
Now, my lords, I infer this, if I was so anpr
With him for offering to go to the To**, *»■
he went to the Tower m my naros- —
X. C. J. That they have said, tbst yoo "«*
V*lh£Ll Dangerfield told me so, th# *••*
angry about his goim* to the Towerio ©J*™'
name; unknown to him.
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I69&~^fcr High Treason.
1 105]
JL C. J. Her* are twe witnesses to prove
that my lord was angry with him for going to
the Tower in his name $ and they both testify
he was extremely high, and refused to carry a
letter to my lord; and yet he says, in August
following he had this discourse. »
Ptk. I have now only one thing to say what
hath pasted between Mr. Oatee and Mr. Dan-
gerfield.
L. C. J. Do it as near as you can.
Sol, Gen. We have some other evidence to
answer this.
Att. Gen. If your lordship please, we will
call two or three witnesses to prove the point.
First, to prove this last thing, that we have
been in my lord's company later than my lord
•peaks of.
L. C. J. He says August.
Att. Gen. We will pro? e after that time,
that is the time that pinches us.
Pro. My lady Powis is in Court, will yon
hear her ?
Lady Powk. My lord, I never did send a let-
ter by Mr. Dangerfietd to any body in my life,
nor I never read a letter in Mr. Dangertield's
presence, nor never had him so much in my
company to read a letter or any tittle to him.
L.C.J. I will tell you gentlemen, what he
•ays ; Mr. Dangerfield swears he carried a let-
ter from my lady Powis to my lord Castle-
xiaine, and there was an answer brought back,
and that that answer of my lord CastTemaine's
was read before him; and (you will do well to
call Mrs. Cellier in again) my lady Powis doth
deny that she ever sent a letter by him to my
lord Castlemaine, or any body else, by him in
her life ; or that she ever communicated any
letter to him : This is apt evidence, this is the
truth of it ; for it answers directly to what he
says against my lord Castlemaine.
Sir Richard Barker.
X. C. J. What say you, sir Richard Barker,
can you give an account of Oates? When was
Mr. Oates in town ? What time that you know
Sir R. Barker. My lord, I remember we were
once upon this before your lordship.
L.C.J. In 1678?
Sir R. Barker. Yew, my lord ; the evidence
that I gave, my lord, was only this, that my
servants told me that Mr. Oates had been at my
house: It was before Whitsontide in May 1678.
L. C. J. Did you see bim then ? When was it
you saw htm ?
Sir R. Barker. My lord, I saw him after.
X. C. J. How long after ?
Sir R. Barker. My lord, it* was about the
latter end of June.
L. C. J. He- say* to his own knowledge be
saw him in June.
Att. Gen. But we have bis servants here too,
Philip Page, and Cecily Mayo.
• L.C.J. Do you bear, Mrs. Cellier, was there
any letters sent by my lord Castlemaine to my
lady Powis, that was read before vou and Dan-
gerfield t
VOL. yii,
[1106
Mrs. Cellier. No, my lord.
L. C. J. Here are two witnesses ; my lady
says there is no such thing, and Mrs, Cellier
says it.
Prit. There is another tbtnp, that is, the
teaching the scholars at St. Omers; that I
taught the scholars their lessons.
Turner.
Sol. Gen. Pray inform my lord and* the jury.1
what time it was yon saw Mr. Dangerfield at
my lord Castlemaine's.
L. C J. What month can yon charge your-
self to say you saw Dangerfield in my lord Cat*
tlemaine's company.
Turner. I can't say just the time.
L. C. J. Might it be August ?
Turner. I can't well tell, I think it might bt
about July.
Just. Raymond. Why do you think so?
L. C. J. If ou are not asked to accuse your*
self in any thing, but when you saw them to-
gether.
Turner. I was coming down stairs, my lord.
Just. Raymond. You don't tell when it was.
L. C. J. Tell ns whether you can tell or no t
If you are doubtful, say you are doubtful ; but
speak the truth.
Turner. I can't be positive.
X. C. J. It might be in June, or July, or Aiw
gust ; but you think July.
Turner. Yes, sir. *
Sol. Gen. The sooner it is after that, the e?f»
dence is the better against it.
Att. Gen. Madam, I think your ladyship
says you never sent a letter by Dangerfield ?
Lady Poms. Yes* sir.
Att. Gen. Nor did you never receive any
notes from him ?
Lady Pomt. I have received some notet
from Mrs. Cellier, which were bis writing.
L. C. J. But did you ever receive- a letter
from my lord Castlemaine ?
Lady Powis. Never, my lord.
■ Woodman,
Just. Raymond. What do you say, Mr, At*
torney ?
Att. Gen. Hark yon, Woodman, were yon
sent with any letter r
Woodman. To whom f
Att. Gen. To my lord Castlemaine, or an}
body?
Woodman. I was sent with one letter, it was
Mrs. Cetlier's, my lord.
L. C. J. To whom ?
Woodman. To my lord Castlemaine ; as I
remember, my lord, I took it from Mrs. Center's
daughter.
Att. Gen. Did you ever receive any money
of my lord Castlemaine ?
Woodman. Yes, my lord.
L. C.J. What was it ; How mncb was it ?
Woodman. About three pounds, or thirty
shillings, I believe. x
L. V. J. How do yon believe it t
Woodman. To the best of my thoughts it was,
I 4B
1107] STATE TRIALS, SSCmailisII. )6&0.— TtMtf the Earl qfCasthmmnc, [1108
Att. Gen. Was it Tor Dangerfield ?
Woodman. My lord, I don't know that.
X. C. J. Have you any more?
Sol. Gen. My lord, I have this to say, to
prove Dr. Oates was in London in April 1678.
X. C. J. He doth not deny hut he might be
here too.
Prit. I don't dispute it my lord, I have only
this one word more. It is not of treason, but it
is against my reputation ; because this man,
before your lordship, I think, has accused me
of it; and I think, my lord, I shall give you
very good satisfaction : That is, that the boys
that came from St. Omers were not instructed
and taught by me. Now, if you please, my lord,
to give me leave to shew it, I have done. Look
roy lord, the thing that I can say, is this ; Mr.
Littcott —
Just. Raymond, You see he said it was mo-
rally impossible.
frit. Pray, my lords*—
Just. Raymond. I will undertake you will
say it is time lost.
X. C. J. I will stay some time to observe
to the jury what I have taken notice of, with all
my heart, but I should be gone.
Prig. I have done, my lord, I would not say
any thing to disgust any body.
X. C. J. Gentlemen of the jury, I will de-
liver my observations in this cause as I would
in any cause, to the best of my understanding,
and 1 will make those observations that are as
natural as I know how to do ; and proper for
you to take notice of. It is in vain to dispute
what my lord stands indicted of: it is for at-
tempting to murder the king, and change our
government and our religion. To prove this
there have been two witnesses only that are
material, and that is Mr. Oates in the first
place ; and Mr. Oates his evidence, the sum
of it is to be reduced
X. C. J. Mr. Attorney, do you stand up to
speak any thing ?
Att. Gen. If your lordship pleases, we will
sum up the evidence for the king, not to offend
your lordship.
L.C. J. If you would be short, Mr. Attor-
ney, we would not binder you of any thing.
Att. Gen. I will be very short. If it please
your lordship, and yon gentlemen of the jury,
my lord Castlemaine is here charged with high-
treason. The proof that we have against him
is by two witnesses, that is, Dr. Oates and Mr.
Dangerfield. Mr. Oates he doth swear this,
namely, that after the consult (for I will bring
it in short) *hat after the consult that was for
killing the king and altering the government,
my lord Castlemaine being acquainted with it
at Mr. Fcnwick's chamber, did hope it good
success, and that he should come to be re-
venged. Mr. Dangerfield he hath proved, That
being treated with to kill the king, and having
refused to do it, my lord Castlemaine was very
angry with him for it, and said, ' Why won't
you do that for which you were taken out of
prison ?' Here are two witnesses express.
What is said against Mr. Oates signifies nothing;
As to Mr. Dangerfield, there are some excep-
tions, which we must confess to be true ; bat
he is a witness, and, my lord, such matters are
to be expected to be proved by such witnesses :
for if a man will discover robberies, he mast go
to such persons as do such things ; and if treat-
sons, it must be among them that have been
employed in such things. Though he were *
dishonest man before, vet he may be honest
now : he was never guilty o( any treason bat
as he was employed among them. There
are some witnesses brought to encounter himy
and one is my lady Powis, who, as he says,
sent him with a letter to roy lord Crfstlemaine;
but she says she did never seod a letter by him :
and others say, he would never come at my
lord Castlemaine after he was angry, which was
in June. Now for that, gentlemen, you clo bear
Turner say, That in July or August, for he
cannot tell which, he thinks it might be July,*
he saw Dangerfield at my lord Castlemaine's
so that that encounters that evidence.
X. C. J. If Mr. Attorney had ndt interrupted
me, I would not have left out any tiling of this
nature, for I would be certainly careful where
the king's life lies at stake : I would be sure to
preserve my sovereign above all things ; and
therefore no man ought to think that I should
be partial in a cause wherein our religion, and
the life of the king and the government is in
danger. But I must say on the other side, that
there should be' good competent proofs of
these things against those accused, because
their lives and fortunes, and honours, and all
are at stake. And so, gentlemen, we shall
discharge our consciences to the best of our
understandings, and deal uprightly on both
hands.
For the case it stands thus : It is truly ob-
served by Mr. Attorney, that there are but two
material witnesses to the charge of this indict-
ment, that is to say, Mr. Oates and Mr. Dan-
gerfield. Mr. Oates his testimony is in tjro
things ; the one close, the other is more remote.
That more remote is, that he had a letter to
send to my lord Castlemaine, which he gave to
the proviucial to send it, and as he says, he
saw a letter subscribed Castlemaine ; and that
afterwards by seeing him write a superscrip-
tion, he could recollect the character so well,
that he believed that to be his band which he
saw in Spain among the Jesuits or the fathers,
as they call them there, to whom they commu-
nicated that letter; wherein be mentioned the
general design, that is, the bringing in popery,
which is the bringing in the Catholic religion,
as they call it. That is more remote. He
saysg there were letters passed between them,
wherein my lord approved of some things, and
disapproved of others, which related to the de-
sign ; by which, says Mr. Oates, we meant the
whole matter and transaction of killing the
king ; and that doth appear by that letter he
saw of my lord Castlemaine's, for that annexes
to design the advancing the Catholic religion.
The first time he saw him he did not know who
he was; and there, at Wild-house, be says
1109]
STATE TRIALS, 52 Chaelks II. 1 WO.— /or High Treason.
[1110
that my lord Castlemaine should drop out some
words which were suspicious, and one thing, as
if he understood something of this matter that
they had in agitation.
But more particularly he says, that when he
came to Fen wick's chamber, there was the
great matter. They talked before but of the
design in general, at Wild-bouse ; but after-
wards meeting in Lincoln's-Inn-Fields, where
be was told who he was, they went to Fen wick's
chamber, where they fell a discoursing about
several things that related to the concern, and
at last they fell upon the matter in hand, and
said, they were glad to see the fathers so unani-
mous in this matter r I asked about what
matter? He said, the killing of the king and
bringing in popery ; to which, lie says, that my
lord should make answer, he wished them good
success in their design, and that then he should
be revenged. This is the substance of what
Mr. Oates says ; against whose testimooy, I
must tell you, there hath been but little.
There is but little thrown upon Mr. Oates by
way of disgrace and infamy ; for that verdict
that the jury found against his evidence, it is
not material, fur then every man must be ac-
cused when the jury does not go according to
the testimony he gives. It is not to be denied,
but there is something said against him in ano-
ther particular, and that is his coming over
from St. Omers ; where he says that Mr. Hils-
ley came over with him in the pacquet-boat,
but Mr. Hilsley denies it ; Mr. Oates would
have salved it, by saying he left him at St.
Omers. It is true, says Mr. Oates, but I over-
took him afterwards ; but he says to the point,
tbat he came not with him. Now, it is not to
be denied on the other hand, but Mr. Oates
might be here, and my lord of Castlemaine
seems to admit it, and it is probable enough
Mr. Oates might be here. This is all I remem-
ber in reference to Mr. Oates. You must
weigh well with yourselves how probable or
not probable what he does swear is. But I
must tell the jury they are to weigh the natures
of people among themselves, as they carry pro-
bability or not, or else the confidence of a
swearer shall take away any man's life what-
soever. And to that Mr. Oates says first, I
understand not how he should be to free, Mr.
Oates being a stranger to hire, when he knew
not my lord, and doth not know whether my
lord knew him or no. But he says, my lord
must needs see the Jesuits trusted him, and
that might make him more confident : that af-
terwards going to Fenwick's house, he spoke
broader in plain English. They were talking
of a design to kill the king and bring in the Ca-
tholic religion ; and Mr. Oates says, he wished
them good succes* in the design, and that then
be should be revenged. How far this oath is to
be taken or not, I must leave to your consi-
deration.
The next is Mr. Dangerfield ; for nothing
infamous is proved against Mr. Oates. Dag-
ger field is a man of whom there is enough. You
see what crimes there are; for it is the duty
of every judge ; and I cannot see how he can
discharge his conscience, and the duty he owes
to the government, in respect of his oa'th and
place, if he doth not make those just obser-
vations to the jury which are done in all eases :
that is to say, when men have contracted
great crimes upon themselves, though by law
they may be witnesses; yet it hath always been
observed, and their credit left them to consider
of. You see how many crimes they have pro-
duced, a matter of six great enormous crimes ;
and by them you will see how far you ought to
consider his testimony. Had Mr. Dangerfield
been guilty only of being concerned m the
treason, and come in as a witness, I should
have thought him a very competent witness, for
that is Mr. Oates's case ; but they prove crimes
of another sort and nature, and whether the
man of a sudden be become a saint by being
become a wituess, I leave that to you to con-
sider, and how far you are satisfied in the main.
The next thing is the opposition to his tes-
timony. He hnih sworn that he carried a letter
from my lady Powis to my lord Castlemaine,
aod an answer returned back from my lord to
her,, and that my lady Powis did read it in the
{tresence of Mrs. Cellier and him. Of this my
ady Powis hath been asked (it is true, they are
not upon their oaths, but that is not their fault,
the law will not allow it), and my lady Powis
hath affirmed to it, as much as lay upon her to
do, tbat she never sent a letter by Mr. Danger-
field to my lord Castlemaine, nor any body else*
And whereas he says Mrs. Cellier was present,
she says she knows of no such letter, nor* was
any read in her company. And this is a con-
tradicting his evidence, supposing him to be a
man otherwise untouched. And whereas Dan-
gerfield says, that in August he was with my
lord, and he said, how chance you would not
do that thing for which you were brought out
of prison ? * What ? Would you have me kill
the king ?' Yes, saith he, that is it. And my
lord speaking very angrily and very roughly,
made him think it time to withdraw out of his
company, and never come into bis company
more ; and that this was the time of his anger,
and no other time, my lord rather compliment-
ing him, as be would say, with friendly salu-
tations. But they produce witnesses against
this. Says Mrs. Cellier, this day twelve-
month ; and says t'other, about a week after
the Jesuits were executed, which was about the
beginning of July, saith she, I would have you
carry a letter to roy lord Castlemaine ; saith
he, I would not do that, I woold go an hundred
miles upon .another errand, but I would not go-
to him. Another witness says, my lord was
mighty angry with him, and told him the causey
because he went io his name to the lords in
the Tower. First, this contradicts what he
said, as if there bad been no anger before. The
next is, that it is very improbable that my lord
should be angry* with him so much, tbat my
lord should be very angry with ham for going
in his name to the Tower, and afterwards for
his refusing to kill the king; when htj eai*},
1111] STATETRIALS, 32 Charli* n. mo.—Tri&l <f Henry C*r, [111*
* Why did yon not do that you came eat of
prison for ? What, my lord, to' kill the king ?
Yes, that/ . This is an argument in opposition
to his testimony.
* The next is a consideration for his testimony.
Turner says, in answer to that, in July he takes
it, but cannot charge himself whether June, or
July, or August, but he himself thinks July,
that he saw him at the lord Caetlemaine's
house. And the king's counsel woold gather
from that, there could not be such an unwil-
lingness to go before that time, it being after
the time they speak of that ibis man saw him
there* Whether or no it was in June, or July,
or August, is something uncertain. So that I
have repeated, as near as I can, all that is sub-
stantial on either part ; and I have, according
to the best of my understanding, dealt fairly
•n both sides, and observed to you what hath
been sworn against my lord, and what' hath
been said in contradiction to what they swear,
and what appears upon record, as to Danger-
field.
There is a great deal of difference between
Mr. Oates's testimony and Mr. Dangerfield's ;
for you may believe one, when you may per-
chance not believe another. There are not
those things cast upon Mr. Oates that are upon
Sir. Dangerfield. Now I must tell you, though
they have produced two, if you believe but one,
I think (if so be my brethren's opinions be
otherwise, I would be very willingly contra-
dicted in this matter) if two witnesses are pro-
duced, both speaking materially to the thing,
the one is believed, and the other not. Whe-
ther upon these two witnesses the jury can find
a person guilty, or no } I am af opinion, k if
but one witness, if you do not believe one ; and
I am sura one is not sufficient to find ooe
guilty : And therefore if so be you are of another
opinion, let us deal fairly and above-board, test
it may appear we deal ngbtly between tot
king and his subjects, and so preserve men tkst
are accused, and not guilty.
Just. Jorus. 1 think, in the first place, my
lord hath very faithfully delivered the evidence.;
and I do think it necessary, in a case of Ties-
son, that there must be two witnesses beheiei
by the jury.
Just. Raymond, I never heard any man .que*
tion it. If the law says there must be two wit-
nesses produced, it says they must be both
believed.
L. C. J. Now you have our sense of it
The Jury went from the bar, and returned.
CI ofCr. Are you all agreed of your ver-
dict?
Jury. Yes.
CI. of Cr. Who shall speak for you ?
Jury. The foreman.
Cl.o/Cr. Roger Palmer, esq.; earl ofCattle-
maine in the kingdom of Ireland, hold op tby
band, look upon the jury*
CI. of Cr. Is Roger Palmer esq. earl of
Castlemaine in the^kingdoin of Ireland, Goiltf
of the High-Treason whereof he stands indicted,
or Not Guilty?
Jury. Not Guilty.
CL of Cr. This is your verdict, you say he if
Not Guilty, so you say all ?
Jury. Yes.
267. The Trial of Henry Carr, or Care, at the Guildhall of
London, for a Libel : 32 Charles II. a. d. 1680.
i\N information was filed in the Crown-office
against Henry Carr, which sets forth, That a
certain plot of a traiterous conspiracy was
lately had within this kingdom of England,
amongst divers false traitors of this kingdom of
England, to put to death and murder our lord
king Charles 2. and the government of this
kingdom of England, and the sincere religion of
God within, tbiy kingdom of England well and
piously established, to destroy and subvert,
and the Romish religion within this kingdom of
England to introduce; and that also divers
traitors for high-treason aforesaid, were law-
fully convicted and attainted, and other per*
tons, for high-treason, aforesaid, we're by due
course of law tried and acquitted. Neverthe-
less, one Henry Carr, of the parish of Sepul-
chres, London, gent, knowing well the pre-
nmes, but minding, and maliciously inteuding
the government of the kingdom of England,
and the administration of justice in the same
kingdom to scandalise, and to bring the same
in con tempt :
» Xjjft 1st day of August, in the Slit year of
our now lord the king, at the parish ef Sep*)-
cbres, London, a certain fake, scandalous sod
malicious book, intituled, " The Weekly Picket
" of Advice from Rome, or the History «
Popery," maliciously and unlawfully ■*»
printed, and caused to be published : In *w«
book is contained among other things, as fol-
io wet h: ' There is lately found out by *a «*•
* perienced physician, an incomparable mee>
1 cament, called "The Wonder-working Pwj
* ter," truly Catholic in operation, wmewm*
« of kin to the Jesuits Powder, but more efleo-
1 tuai. The virtues of it are strange ••{ f*
' rious. It will make justice deaf as well ai
* blind, takes out spots out of deepest treasons,
« more cleverly than Castile-soap does common
1 stains. It alters a man's constitution w two
' or three days, more than the virtuosos trans*
' fusion of blood in seven years, f* a FJ**
' aleiipharmic, and helps poisons, and those
' that use them. It miraculously exalts and •«•
* rifles the ejesight, and makes people br"o«
1 nothing but innocence in the blackest ■*
'factor*. It is a migtwy owdial for a dW"'^
STATE TRIALS, 32 Cha«i*» II. lMO.-^br a libel.
1113]
i
* cause, stifles a plot as certainly as toe itch is
4 destroyed by batter and brimstone. In award,
4 ic makes fools wise men, and wise men fools,
' and both of them knaves. The colour of this
4 precious balm is bright and dazzling, and
* being applied privately to the fist in decent
* manner, and a competent dose, infallibly per-
4 forms all the said cures, and many others not
4 fit here to be mentioned/*
To the great contempt ef our lord the king
and his laws, to the great scandal of the govern-
ment of our now lord the king, and the laws of
this kingdom of England, and the administra-
* " The "Weekly Paceuet of Advice from
Some, &c." was first published on Tuesday De-
cember the 3rd 1678, and the three next numbers
appeared respectively on the 10 ih, 17th and 94tb
Of that month. Then the day of publication
was changed from Tuesday to Friday for the
convenience of dispatching the paper into the
country by the posi accordingly; the 5th number
was published on Friday, January the 3rd, 1679.
The work was continued until Friday, May 38,
1680 ; when I conjecture it. ceased in conse-
quence of the prosecution out of which arose
the trial before us. In the year 1679, the first
SI numbers were published in a vu.uine with
this title, " Tbe Weekly Pacouet of Advice from
Rome, or the History of Popery : -A deduction
ot the usurpation* of the Bishops of Rome, and
the errors and superstitions by them from time
to time brought into the church. In the pro*
cess of which the Papists arguments are an-
swered, their fallacies detected, their cruelties
registered, iheir treasons and seditious princi-
ples observed, and the whole body of Papistry
anatomised, performed by a single sheet,
coining out every Friday, but with a continual
connexion/' To each being added, " The
" Popish Couraat, or some occasional Joeo-se-
" nous Reflections on Romish Fopperies." In
the next year, the 47 succeeding numbers were
collected into ihe '* Second volume of the Week-
[111*
tion of justice in the same kingdom ; to tbe evil
example of all others m such a case offending,
and against the peace of our lord the king, kit
crown and dignity.
To whjcb Information appeared in the
Court of King's-Bench, Henry Carr, by bis at*
torney, Benedict Brown, the 11th erf February,
and having heard the Information aforesaid,
said that he was Not Guilty.
Issue being joined, it was tried by writ of
Nisi Prius, at tbe Guild-hall, before the lord
chief Justice Scroggs, upon the gnd of July,
1680, where a jury was summoned, whose name
are as folio weth : Benj. Thorogood, Richard
Black bourne, Godfrey Richards, Leonard Bates,
Phillip Herman, Francis Breerwood, Thomas
Kemble, William Longman, John Debman,
Lewis Wilson, Henry I*rshoe, Thomas Salter,
Jeremiah Gregory, Nich. Bondy, George Day,
Nich. Dawes, Richard Blaney, Henry Averie,
Joseph Hall, William Bridges, Thomas Lee,
Richard W hite, Randal Dod, Richard Bowater.
Of all which only four appeared and were
sworn, viz. Nicholas Bondy, Leonard Bates,
Henry Averie, Randal Dod. Whereupon a
tales was prayed and granted, and then were
sworn and added to the principal pannel, accor-
ding to the form of the statute. Nicholas
Caplin, Richard Cawtham, Arthur Young, Wil-
liam Yap, James Wood, Thomas Gilby, John'
Odensel, Emanuel Conyers.
' After which the court proceeded, and tbe
Recorder began to open tbe offence, as fol-
lows. •
Mr. Recorder, (Sir George JeffeTtes.) This
person among others intending to scandalize
the government, hath caused a book to be
published, which I have here in my hand, called
the Weekly Packet of Advice from Rome; there
are some papers besides what are bound op to-
gether that are continued on, which, my lord,
would not be amiss for as that are of the king's
counsel to take notice of, not only for the jury's
satisfaction, but likewise for the satisfaction of
this great auditory, some whereof I know come
to pick advantage, and to know whether or no
rascals may have liberty to print what they
1? Pacquets of Advice from Rome', or History of
Pupery, displaying the horrid fives of tbe several
bishops of Rome down to the year of our lord
thousand, and tbe usurpations) errors, and please. Now all the judges of England having
superstitions from time to time introduced or
advanced hi the church. Wnerein also divers
ef our most important controversies with the
Papists are fairly stated and argued, their argu-
ments solved, their objections answered, and
the truth asserted, togetiier with the Popish
Courants, or, &c." Both volumes as well as the
single numbers were puhished by Langley
Curtis, on Ludgate HilL. [See the Case of Jane
Curtis, in this Collection. J
The passage which b set forth in the inform-
ation is part of the " Popish Courant," No.' 4,
of the 2d volume. In the argumentative part
of the work there is much historical and contra*
▼ersial learning. In the other part the at-
tempts at wit are but rarely successful ; the jo-
cularity is generally coarse and sometimes
brutal. The wMe is written with great acri-
mony,
been met together, te know whether anv per-
son whatsoever may expose to the pontic know-
ledge any manner of intelligence, or any matter
whatsoever that concerns the public, they gave
it in as their resolution, that no person whatso-
ever could expose to the public knowledge any
thing that concerned the affairs of the public,,
without licence from the king, or from such
persons as be thought fit to entrust with that
affair. But such is tbe age that we live in, that
a man that hath wit enough to libel any man
die government, thinks he hath licence
in
enough to expose that mart to public knowledge
also. And they do it under specious pretences,
because they think that any man may be ex*
posed te> tbe public censure that thev can either
call a papist, or but popishlv affected, and
that man is either the one or the other, that is
I not agreeable to every rascally humour $at
1115] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16M.— Trial tf Hcmy Carr, [1116
torn* people affect. I acknowledge, my lord,
that any man that will iu a legal manner en-
deavour to suppress popery, ought to be en-
couraged in his endeavour, to the utmost ; but
if in case any man will be transported with zeal
because he is of a party, and under pretence
of endeavouring to suppress popery, should sup-
port a party, that man ought to be detected.
The author of this Packet of A d vice from Rome,
or the publisher of it, Mr. Carr, that is now
the defendant, he thinks he can scratch the itch
of the age, and that he may libel any man con-
cerned in the government, if he can but call
him a papist, or popishly affected; let a man be
never so honest let a man be never so much
for the support of that religion that every ho-
nest man ought to support that is, the Protest-
ant Religion, as it is established by law, without
going to ilome or Amsterdam for assistance. I
will not mention the persons that are concerned
in it, but I will apply myself wholly to this
matter, that it is the opinion of all the judges of
England that it is the law of the land, that no
Croon should offer to expose to public know-
dge any thing that concerns the government,
without the king's immediate licence. Nbw we
are to try whether this person exposed this thing
to public knowledge, and that is the matter,
gentlemen, that you are to try. The other is the
business of the court ; we are to say whether
if we prove the fact, this man is guilty of
punishment, and no doubt the justice of the na-
tion will punish him. But when I see so many
swarm about me, I am willing to bear what
proof there is.
Sir JFV. Winnington. I am of counsel for the
defendant, I only, offer it to your lordship, that
the information may be proved.
X. C. J. Mere are two things we are to keep
to, the matter of proof according to the infor-
mation, and accordingly are we to .proceed as
in common justice we find the case to be. I
must say that for the prisoner, he has behaved
himself with as much modesty as in duty and
honesty he ought ; but I find that Sir Fr. Win-
nington puts yon upon proving.
Sir F. Within*. My Lord, we will prove it.
X. C. J. (Sir William Scroggs.) Let them
that are not of the jury go forth, the jury is
no more to be corrupted than the judge,
Sir Francis Withint. We must be allowed the
first part, that there was a plot.
X. C. J. The jury may take that upon their
oaths, they know there was a plot the cer-
tainest of any thing of fact that ever came be-
fore me.
Mr. Stevens, Printer.
X. C. J. Did Mr. Carr own he writ this
packet, bad you any from him ?
Printer. I had several from him.
X. C. J. Of whom else had you any ?
Recorder. Besides Carr ?
X. C. J. You are upon your oatt ; from
whom ever had you any besides ?
Printer. I do not remember that I bad any
from any body else.
X. C. J. You printed them, did you ?
. Printer, Yes, my lord, I did.
X. C. J. And you know of none from any
else, but by him or his orders ?
Printer. No, My lord.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Shew him the paper.
Canyou swear upon your oath, that Mr. Can-
did send or deliver to you that very paper ?
Printer, I cannot tell that any body else did
send it.
X. C. J- We must do here, as we do in all
cases : he saith, I had divers of these papers
from him, I printed them, and I know of none
that ever was but by bira or his order.
Sir Fr. Winnington. He saith so, bnt, my
lord, the information is to such a particular
book entitled, " A Pacquet of Advice from
Rome."
X. C. J. He says this in answer to it, I can't
charge myself with this particular to say posi-
tively I had it from him : but this I can say,
we had several from him, and I know of none
else, but all were by him or his order.
Sir F. Winnington. Will your lordship give
me leave to ask mm one question ? Can you
swear that any that came from him contained
the very matter in that book ? Was it the mat-
ter or words ?
Recorder. Do you believe it?
Sir F. Winnington. Good Mr. Recorder, let
me alone. Can you say it is the very matter
contained in that paper ?
Printer. I can't say that.
X. C. J. It is not an easy matter for a man to
remember the matter of a paper that is writ on
all sides. He swears that tbey had several;
and that they had none, though be printed then,
from any but him or his order. This question
sir Francis Winnington asks, Had you this par-
ticular paper from hirar* He cannot swear it
was the same he had from him ; hut be does
swear, all the Weekly Intelligences were from
him or his order ; he does not swear for the
matter of this book, which no man will do : but
he does swear that these papers were always by
him or his orders, and that several were re-
ceived from him.
Mr. Williams. I ask you upon your 'oath, Be
brought it to you in writing, aid be not ?
Printer. They came in writing.
Mr. Willituns. Have you any of these papers
to shew?
Printer. We did not regard them when they
were printed.
X. C. J. His canse shall be tried very justly
and vety mdiflerently.
Mr. William. Had you ever ' a paper from
Carr's hand or no ?
Printer. We had few from bis own hand.
Mr. Williams. Had you any ?
Printer. I can't remember.
X. C. J. Had you any ? You are upoa yoar
oath.— Printer. My Lord, I can't remember.
X. C. J. Had you one, or two ?
Printer. Indeed my lord, I cannot remem-
ber, I cannot say upon my oath he «v*r btoafi*
one.
1117)
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 168G.— /or a label.
[1118
X. C. J. How. then came you to say yoa had
several from him?
Printer. Ay, my lord, from him, that is, by
kirn, or bis order.
X. C. J. Are you sure it was by his order ?
Printer. I did conceive so, my lord.
X. C. J. Had be any money ?
Printer. From me?
X. C. J. Had he any money from any body
for printing any of these papers, as you can re-
member ?
Printer. I do suppose so, I have heard he
had.
X. C. J. Did you give him any ?
Printer. No, my lord, I was not concerned.
The publisher my lord was between him and
X. C.J. Who is that?
Printer. That is one Curtis.
X. C. J. Did Curtis pay him any money?
Printer. I never saw him pay him any, my
lord.
X. C. J. Hath he owned at any time he had
any money ?
Printer. My lord, I never bad any occasion
for that question.
X. C. J. Have you talked with Carr?
Printer. Yes, my Lord.
X. C. J. Now I shall have you : For I do
believe yon are an honest man. Did Carr ever
own himself to you to be the author of this book,
or any of these papers ?
Printer. My lord, as I sSid in the other case,
so I say in this, I had no occasion to dispute
it, I took it for granted.
X. C. J. Have you ever heard him own it ?
Printer. I have heard him deny it.
X. C. J. How did you come to take it for
granted that he was the author, when he did
once deny, but never owned it ? Answer me
that question, and thou shalt be a brave man.
Printer. My lord, there was never occasion
for that discourse.
X. C. J. Look you sir, you must answer me
in a way agreeable to common reason and un-
derstanding. xWhy did you say just now, you
took it for granted that he was the author, and
yet you say he hath denied it and never owned
it ? Why should you then believe he was the
author?
Printer. I don't say, my lord, he never owned
it.
X. C. J. What tricks we have in this world !
Recorded. I would ask the gentleman, I will
not quarrel with him at all, if he thinks not in
his own conscience he has reason to quarrel
with himself. Did he ever own it to you ?
Printer. I don't remember he ever owned it
to me in so many words. ,
X. C. J. pid he treat with you in these cir-
cumstances as if he were the author ?
Printer. Yes, my lord, I grant that.
Recorder. But do you swear it is so? We
don't care for your granting : I ask you upon
your oath, did you ever discourse him as the
anchor of these papers?
Printer, I supposed him to be the author.
X. C. J. Did be deny it, or baulk when yoa
discoursed him of this matter ?
Printer. My lord, I must needs saj as I said
before, it was taken tor granted.
Mr. Williams. You had it in writing, where)
are those writings ?
Printer. We seldom regard those writings,
X. C. J. It is hard to find the author, it is
not hard to find the printer: But one author
found is better than twenty printers found.
Mr. Williams. My lord, I will ask this man a
question. Upon your oath, who brougit you
that writing?
Printer. What writing?
Mr. Williams. That by which it was printed c
who brought you that paper ? -
Printer. I don't remember particularly I hail
any of Mr. Carr himself.
Mr. Williams. Can yon name the person that
brought this paper, or any one person that
brought any one'paper?
Printer. There was a little boy.
Mr. Williams. Whose boy?
Printer. Mr. Carr's boy.
Recorder. Now it is our.
Mr. Williams. Name the boy.
Printer. I do not know his name.
Mr. Williams. Can you name another, cast
you name any body else ?
Printer. Truly, sir, I don't remember any
body else.
Mr. Williams. Now I will ask you one things
Had you any directions for the printing this pa-
per?
X. Q. J. To what purpose was this written
paper brought to you ?
Printer. To be printed, my lord.
Mr. Williams. Who gave directions ?
Printer. It was the publisher that chiefly di-
rected me.
Mr. Williams. Who was that ?
Printer. I have named him.
Mr. Williams. Name him again.
Printer. Curtis.
Mr. Williams. Did Carr never direct yen to
print this paper?.
Printer. He did not deal immediately with
me.
Recorder. When the little boy came, who
did you take him to come from ? From Mr.
Carr, or Mr. Curtis ?
Printer. From Mr. Carr.
X. C. J. He says be was Carr's boy, and
that he came from him : this I speak to the
jury ; and I promise you this, if. my life and for-
tune were at stake, I would be tried by this jury
at the bar, and would do in this, as in all cases.
Mr. Carr is looked upon as the author of this
book ; that it either came from him, or by his
order, his. boy (he can remember no body else)
did bring it. This is now remaining only : are
you sure Mr. Carr sent him? Sarth he, we
talked with Mr. Carr several tiroes.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Thus it is, my lord, in
the information, ' Maliciose et il licit £ im priori
4 causavit et publicavit.' Now I would only
ask him a question, my lord, whether or no did
1 U»] STATS TRIALS, 32 Chaelbs IL l68Q.—1Hal qf Henry Cur, [11tt
Mr. Carr own to you that he sent tbe boy to
bare itprinted 1— Printer. No, Sir, 1 think not.
X. V. J« That is the same question asked
before. Did Mr. Carr ever own it as his, or
no ? Upon your oath, did Carr own this packet
to be his, when you discoursed with him
about it?
Printer. My lord, I humbly crave your leave
10 eaplaio myself. I mean bj the discourse I
bad, common conversation, as tbe drinking a
glass of wine ; but I know not that ever we
discoursed upon this thing.
X. C. J. I mean so ? When yon talked
about this matter, did you take it; by bis dis-
course, for granted, that be was the man that
published it?
Printer. I took it for granted, because I had
it from him.
X. C. J. What say you to this ? have you
blamed Carr for writing too sharply in this
book, against the government ?
Printer. M v lord, I do confess I have.
JL C. J. What answer hath be made, when
you blamed him for writing too sharply, as you
thought ? Did be deny that he did it ?
Printer. I don't remember thai.
X. C J. What sort of answer did he make to
excuse it ? that he thought it not too sharp ; or
did be say, I care not.
Printer. My lord, I can't particularly say
what answer he made.
£. C. J. When you blamed him, by the oath
you have taken, upon that- blame of yours, did
he deny he wrote it ?
Printer. No, my lord, I do not remember
he did.
Mr. Williams. Did Carr at any time deny he
was tbe author or publisher of it ?
printer. He bath at some times..
Mr. Williams. What did he deny?
Printer. That he was the author.
Mr. Williams. Of what book ?
Printer. Of the Packet ?
X. C. J. Did he deny he was the author of
this particular book for this week, or deny it in
general ? Did be deny in general that he was
the author of that book that is called, " The
Packet of Advice ?"
Printer. I have heard him say sometimes
that he was not the author.
Recorder. And sometimes what ?
Printer. I have heard him say seme time or
ntber, that he was not the author.
JUeorder. And what else ?
The Printer's Servant,
Mr. William. Are you acquainted with
Carr?
Jsfiift. I never had any converse with him.
Mr. VKlUoms. Do you know any thing of
tbe Packet of Advice ?
Man. I know we have had Packets from
him : I fetched some from him.
Mr. William*. What, from bis hands ?
- Afoa. Yes. »
Mr. Wilbam*. What, from his own hands ?
M*** Yes, in pieces, no whole sheets.
Printer. This is my servant, I am not always
there.
Sir JV. Wrnnington. My lord, I would ask
this mi* a question. This printed paper that
is put in the information, did be ever deliver
that to you ?
Man. I can't speak particularly to any
Recorder. But generally to all ?
X. C. J. Have you done ?
Mr. Williams. I ask you a question.
X. C.J. If you could, Mr. Williams,
me any author besides Mr. Carr, I would say
something.
Mr. Williams. Who brought yon this paper?
Man. Which paper?
Mr. Wtlliams. I don't speak of this paper
particularly. Did any bring any besides Curst
Man. Yes, his boy.
Mr. Williams. Did any body else bring any
from any place ?
Man. Nobody else that I know of.
Mr. Williams. Tbe packet he brought you,
bad it been printed before ? I ask yon upon
your oath, was it printed before be brought it?
JL C. J. Did he bring papers to print that
were never printed ? ,
Man. They were never printed that I know
of.
Mr. Williams. Did he bring any to print f
Man. I can't say be brought auy.
Mr. Williams. Did Mr. Carr bring any ?
Man. No, the boy.
Mr. Williams. Who directed yon to print
them ? Did Carr direct you ?
Man. I can't teH, I am a servant in the
house.
X. C..J. I will assure^you, a ' Non eat Fac-
' turn ' can't pass at this rate.
Justice Jones. Who did you take to be the
man that sent you all tbe packets ?
Man. I very seldom took any, because I
was not always in sight.
X. C. J. Who did you understand ?
Man. %I understood they came from Mr.
Carr.
X. C. J. Have you any more ? Read taw
words in the Information.
Clerk. Friday the 1st of August, 1079-
" There is lately found out by an experienced
physician, an incomparable medicament, catt-
ed, The Wonder- Working Plaister ; truly Ca-
tholic in operation ; somewhat of kin to the
Jesuits Powder, but more efiectual, Tbe vir-
tues of it are strange and various. It makes
justice deaf, as well as blind, and takes- one
spots of the deepest Treason more cleverly than
Castile-Soap does common stains. It alters n
man's constitution in two or three days, more
than the Virtuosis Transfusion of blood ha
seven years. It is a great alexipharmic, and
helps poisons and those that use them. It mi-
raculously exalts and purifies the eye-sight, and
makes people behold nothime but ionocency in
the blackest malefactors. It is a mighty exor-
dial for a declining cause ; it stifles a plot as
certainly as the itch is destroyed by butter anal
brimstone* In a word, it makes fools wist
1121]
STATE TRIALS, 32CfUM.B$U. 16*0.— for a Libel.
um
men, and wise men fools, nod both of them
knaves. The colour of this precious balm is
bright and danbeg, and being applied private-
ly to, the fist, in decent manner, and a compe-
tent dose, infallibly performs all the said cur* s,
and many others not fit here to be mentioned.
Protmtum est."
Sir Fr. Winnington. May it please your
lordship, and you gentlemen of tbe jury, I am
counsel in this cause for the defendant : And
the question is, whether or no we must take
the information as it lies ? And truly, for the
first part of it, whether there was a plot or no, I
do not miend to make exceptions ; for I be-
lieve there was one, and 1 do intend to take it
aw in the information. Gentlemen, we are to
proceed now to this other question : which is,
my lord. Whether or jio this defendant, that is,
Carr, did * faisly and maliciously/ and with
' design to scandalise the government/ cause to
be printed and published this false libel that is
isi the information. Now truly, my ford, we
that are for the defendant, say we are not
gniliy. My lord, we very well know how
penal a thing it is for a man to be the author
of a libel that relates to the scandal of the go-
vernment. r And, my lord, whether ibis de-
fendant be guilty of this, or no, we must submit
that to your lordship's and the jury's coo»ide-
ration. They have produced two witnesses,
that is to say, the printer and his man. Now,
my lord, there bath been going out for some
time, A Weekly Packet of Advice from Rome;
and I did atk the witnesses (lor the informa-
tion points at one paragraph, and puts the pa-
ragraph in hoc vtrba)^r\ did ask him whether
or no he did send, or whether the matter that
be sent is that contained in this information.
That be d»uld not »wear : but must be left in
point of evidence, it being, we allow, a very
penal matter. The second witness and the
first witness likewise say, there was a boy : but
whether that boy came by his m tsier's direc-
tion, he does not know, i asked him if ever
is master sent the boy ; he does not know, he
s»y*, that he sent him. But the last witness
says, divers were had from the hands of Carr ;
hist whether it was the thing that is now com*
plained of, there u th* quest on, and that is in
the dark : For, by your lordship's leave, I do
not understand that ever this roan was com-
plained of to any public magistrate for writing
wis book ; for it was thought he was a satirist
against Popery, and thought to he very well
uued on till this fault was found with it ; and
it may be very justly ; whether or no we be
gouty of this, is uncertain : For we know in the
age we live in, there ace too many shams put
noon meo ; and who knows hut that the Papists
that might have an ill-will to this Mr. Carr,
that bath been no friend to tbem, might shuffle
io this paragraph, by that means to have jus-
tice come upon bin ? I would not contrive
against common evidence, where a man is
guilry to the pjibjic ; hut we know there are
abundance of artifices in this age to abuse
nun. For this purpose X hope, your lordship
VOL. VII.
and the jury will expert that ynq should have
positive evidence against bim. Now granting
your lordship should have conjectural etidence
that he did cause it to be printed and publish-
ed, that this man did write it, is, I say, very
uncertain, for there is no posjijve evidence.
What a man may have in his private thoughts
of it, is not enough : But, whether * secundum
• allegata et probata/ it shall be nlledged and
proved, that, this man was the author pf it.
Now, my lord, I say, I must submit it to ypur
lordship, I say, that as to the causing it to .be
printed, or the causing it to be published, or
that this individual paragraph was writ by him
in order to its being priuted or published ; my
lord, I say, there is but remote and conjectural
evidence, and an angry Papist might contrive
tin's way to have an inuocent Protestant found
guilty.
People. Hem
£. Q. J. Yon see what a case we are in, gen-
tlemen ; you see what a s6rt of people we are
got among. Go on sir Francis.
Sir Fr. Winnington, With your lordship'* leave
I have one thing to put to your lordship. The
information says, * false, illicit e et maliciose.*
I know there are some things that do imply ma-
lice in themselves. Truly, my lord, I am upon
a tender point, and know not how to express
myself. I say, supposing it should fall ont that
this man writ this book, and he might have
some little extravagancies in his head in writ-
ing, whether ibis man did it maliciously to scan-
dalize the government, as the information says,
is a question. Truly, my lord, there is many
an indiscreet act a man may be guilty of, that
cannot be called a malicious net ; and that is
the second tbiug. There must be evidence that
this man did it maliciously, or that he did it
with a design to scandalize the government. If
you be of opinion that it is otherwise, that is in
your lordship's breast ; >e are of the negative,
and we say we can't prove a negative. But it
yon find him innocent 1 suppose there will be
no cause to complain of him afterwards, for he
had no malice in his heart.
Mr. Wilhamt. My lord, it can never be sup-
posed that a good man, and a good subject,
should do an ill action. If he be a very good
subject, if be be upon a square in every respect,
a person that loves his king, and loves the go*
v eminent in church and'in state; if he be such
a person, he cannot be thought guilty. My lord
we will prove him to be such a man, and 1 hope
the gentlemen will believe us.
Call Mr. Sutton, Mr. Ayliffe, and Mr. Ambler.
Mr. William*. Mr. Sutton, do you know Mr.
Carr?
Sutton. I know him very well.
Mr. William. How long since have you
known him ?
Sutton. Two or three years.
Mr. William*. Does fee go to church or meet-
ing?
Sutton. He hath been vitb neat church
often.
4C
1123) STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Trial of Henry Carr, [1124
Ayliffe. Yes, sir.
Mr. Williams. Is he a conformable imo to
the government in church and state ? Does he
go to hear common-prayer ?
Ayliffe. I have seen him at church and dnriie
service.
Recorder. Did he behave himself reveiendy
there?
Ayliffe. Yes, Sir.
L. C. J. Do you think be writ this?
Ayliffe. My lord, I never asked him.
Sir Fr. Winnington, My lord, it seems he
was accounted the author of the hooks; bat
whether of this particular one in the infbnaa-
tion, we conceive not proved.
Recorder* If we should not do right, we de-
claim that service we owe to the crown, sod
that respect we owe to the government as ho-
nest men and as true protest ants, and as muck
against papistsju any man whatsoever. J shall
endeavour to give the world satisfaction that
this roan is guilty of this offence. My lord, for
any man to come and pretend" that we mast
prove that a man is malicious ; or because that
a man writes against the papists, he must new
therefore be convicted of malice, surety is a
strange argument. And I wonder to hear soy
man that pretends to reason, men of sense, and
conscience, and understanding, so out of their
common sense and understanding, as to make
that go as an argument. Gentlemen, the
things themselves bespeak their malice. For
so we in our common discourse, when we bring
our common actions (of which you have beard
a number;, if in case any man call a man
thief: we say he does ifalsly, maliciously,
and scandalously call a man thief: If *c
prove he called him thief, the very thing
does intimate he does it falsly, scanda-
lously, and maliciously; therefore the thing
itself is a sufficient indication of the malice and
depravity of it. There is oo man but awf
know in plain English what is the meaning of
these words; it is as plain as can be in the
world : We must debauch our understandings,
and be as great Doltheads as they would make
all men that will not be of their party, if**
don't plainly see into the meaning of these
words, that 'justice is to be bribed with mosey.
In the neat place, gentlemen, we do pot come
and say, that the information lies against these
very particular words; that is a mistake of the
information. But the information is, That be
did cause to be printed and published a book,
in which among others there were such words
as these; though if they had been the very
words themselves, the very words hare bed
proved. Now, There is no better proof under
the heavens, than the proof we have offered.
The printer himself, he comes here and sty*,
That Carr did acknowledge himself the author,
and he did generally publish the book ; I &£
peal if you do not believe it. This they woa«
now come and excuse ; for they are gl*d to
make a rascal of any of their party, if they can
but save a man that is guilty. But things come
out with much difficulty and much straitnets;
Mr. Recorder. Does be receive the sacra-
ment according to the manner of the church of
England ?
Sutton. I was never with him at the sacra-
ment.
Mr. Williams. Is he one of them»yoa call dis-
senters.
L. C. J. Did he ever discourse with you con-
cerning this book ?
Sutton. My lord, I have often spoken to him.
L. C. J. Has he disowned he was the author.
Sutton. He has sometimes.
L. C. J. How do you believe it was upon
that discourse ?
Sutton. I do not think he is able to write
such a book.
L. C. J. That is not the~question, answer
me what I ask.
Sutton. It did seem something like his writ-
ing, methought.
L. C. J. Did it seem by his answer 'to your
discourse with him ?
Recorder. Pray tell us, did you look upon
him to he the author ?
L. C. J. By the discourse you had with
him, how did it appear upon that discourse ?
Pray tell us plainly and clearly, how you do
think, by the discourse you had with him con-
cerning this pamphlet, whether lie was the au-
thor or no ?
Sutton. My lord, about a year, or a year and
half since, I did ask him whether this book
were licensed ? He told me it was licensed by
Mr. L'Estrange; but he did not tell me he was
the author.
L. C. J. How did it seem by his discourse.
Sutton. I did apprehend he might write ir.
Sir Fr. Winnington. My lord, but the ques-
tion is, whether he wrote this paragraph.
Mr. Ambler.
Mr. Williams. Mr. Ambler, pray do you ac-
quaint my lord, do you know Mr. Carr ?
Ambler. Yes, sir.
L. C. J. How long have you known "mm ?
Ambler. Three years.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Of what conversation is
he, and how affected to the government ?
Ambler. He went to church with me.
Sir Fr. Winnington. Do you look upon him as
a man well affected to the government ? Do you
think he would maliciously write any thing to
scandalize the government?
Just. Jones. How do we know how Mr. Am-
bler understands the government ?
Recorder. Mr. Ambler, had you any dis-
course with him about the Packet of Advice?
Ambler. Never in my life.
Recorder. Did you ever hear of the book ?
Ambler. Yes, sir.
Recorder. Upon your oath, did you . look
upon him to he the author?
Ambler. The common report was, that Mr.
Carr was.
Mr. Ayliffe.
Mr. Williams. Mr. Ayliffe, do you know Mr.
Carr ?
STATE TRIALS, 32 CharXes II. 1680.-/c?r a Libel
1 125]
and I must say, if ever any thing were an in-
stance of popery, then that man is one of the
Jesuitedest fellows that ever was ; for he does
cant so like them, that a man can't tell how to
govern himself. Who was it that should write
these things? Truly, he had discoursed with
him about the . matter. Who sent the boy ?
Do you know ? Trnly I can't tell : And a won-
derful great snoffiing and cantiog before he
comes to the business, ltesides, what can
there be more plain than the proof- pieces be-
fore die publishing ? The other man says, that
he was the man that fetched pieces from Carr's
own hand, and that he always looked upon it
that all did come from Carr.
Now every man that knows any thing of
printing, knows this, that after it hath first taken
the press, it is always carried back again to the
author, to see whether it be done according to
bis mind ; and after that it comes to the public
view. * And that this roan, Carr, is the author,
Mr. Sotton and the rest of bis witnesses, if they
speak according to conscience, they themselves
looked upon this very man to be the author.
Their own witnesses looked upon it so. It was
Mot only the private opinion of these men, but
the general report or all. So that, my lord,
had it not been necessary to the support of the
government, I should have scarce troubled my*
self to give your lordship and the jury this trou-
ble. But I must say, and I do believe, that
there is no man whatsoever, that stands to have
vices of this nature convicted and punished,
but desires the protestant religion may be sup-
ported to the utmost, and that popery may be
suppressed. But I say, whoever it is, that
after this -evidence, who is bound by his oath to
go according to evidence, shall acquit this man,
he must be a man of a bumming conscience in-
seed.
Sir Fr. WUhins. I shall hint one thing to
jour lordship in this case: That it is an unlike-
ly thing that a papist should set out this Pec-
quet* at this time. For then, my lord, how
came it to pass that Mr. Carr had none came
out that week; for his is a Weekly Intelligence?
If Mr, Carr's had come oat, and this likewise,
there had been some pretence for this : But
since there came out but one, that the papists
set out this is unlikely. .They have not pre-
tended to bring in any body eke as the author;
hut their own witnesses say, and they them-
selves say, he was looked upon as the author.
Those things that are done against the govern-
ment, are never done in the face of the govern-
ment.
L. C. J. Really, gentlemen, I thought not
that this had been a cause of that moment that
bow I find it For their very disturbance bath
altered it from Mr. Carr's to a public concern.
*The noise which they make, this way that these
people use, that with their shouts and noise
attend the cause, hath quite spoiled it : As in
the case of Harris.* But those people tbatdid
then attend him, leave following him in a gaol for
* See <m/e, p. 933.
[1126
500/., which may he 5i. a piece had discharged
him of, if they had been as free of their purses
as they are of their uoises and acclamations ;
So that in truth they are only violent against
the government whilst they can make shouts
and noises, but if it comes once to deliver a
man from a penal sum, they will let him rot in
gaol. For so Harris sent to me, that his party
had all forsaken him, and no man would give
him any thing. And this is for those hummers,
I hose brave fellows that seem to espouse a
cause, and yet leave their party in distrrss.
But let them go away wiih this, that they prove
themselves hereby enemies to the government,
and false to that interest and men that they
seem to espouse; that come only here to affront
a court of justice with their shouts and noises,
and will not relieve their party : For this is the
complaint of Harris, and the disparagement of
all men that come to espouse it. This cause,
the truth of it is, I did not look upon to be of
this nature and moment, when it was opened.
For though there are in this very paper upon
which the information is grounded, words mali-
cious and reflective enough ; yet they were not
so apparently appropriated, that a man might
observe an extraordinary design in them. This
I thought; but really the case is altered even
by those men. For I will -tell you, Harris is
popr, and his keeping in prison is principally
occasioned from the manner of the reception
of his punishment, which he calls his pardon.
And therefore these fellows, these hummers,
let them all know, whenever they come to es-
pouse a cause of public couceru agaiost the
government, they spoil it; and when they are
taken, then they ruin one another. And this
is like to be so, for none will help them with a
?;roat. And this is the misfortune of that unf-
ortunate man Harris, that he h ith no place of
mercy left him from the king, because he was
attended with such a rabble as these people
are, that have made a noise here, and yet will
give him no help or assistance when he wants
its And let them know, it hath turned this
man's cause into a public cause, because here
are people that do espouse it, and the govern-
ment is hereby concerned much more than by
any one action that this Carr could have done.
I have said so much more of this,. that I might
shew you to what a sad case this is brought from
what at first it was. For if it had passed without
such a noise, as you see how they express them-
selves, I should not have thought much matter
in it; and though you had convicted bim, I
should have thought a better sentence might
have served the turn : but they have undone
Carr, if you find him guilty; and so it is likely
to prove, whenever there is popular attendance
upon public causes that concern the govern-
ment.
The present case it stands thus : Mr. Carr,
here is an information brought against him for
publishing a printed pamphlet called, The
Pecquet of Advice from Rome, and in it there
are recited some particulars, which were ob-
served to you befere, which was not well done;
1 127] STATE TRIALS, 82 Chabxu II. 1630.— IMsf $f Hihty Can. [11*
but yet not so insolently done Us some per*
baps do conceit. The question n. Whether he
was the author or publisher of this: you bear
he is thoufg-ttlhe author, hut say his counsel,
it is not plain; and that is true. But it seems
byxthrir own witnesses, to any man's under-
standing, that they looked upon him. a* the au-
thor. But then, is be (lie author and publisher
of this particular book ? I had rather Mr. Carr,
with ail his faults about him, and his hummers,
shoold go away with applause, and have him
found not guilty, than do him wrong in one
circumstance ; For I come to try cause* accord-
ing to the truth of fact; I come not to plead
on one side nor another ; not to condemn men
that are innocent, nor to Acquit them if they
be guilty. Now it remains for jrou to consider
what proof* you have, as to this particular
book againsr which the information lies; and
that is the printer himself, who is one of the
best sorts of evidence that can be had : for you
very well know that evidences of fact are to be
eipected according to the nature of the thing.
That is, forgery it not to be proved so plainly,
as to expect witnesses as yon do at the sealing
of a bond ; for men do not call witnesses when
they forge a thing. Therefore in things of that,
nature we are fain to retreat to such probable
aid conjectural evidence as the matter will
bear. 1 believe some of you have been of ju-
ries at the OM Bailey, and that even for men's
lives, you have very often not a direct proof
of the fact, of the act, or of the actual killing ;
but yet yon have such evidence by presump-
tion, as seems reasonable to conscience. If
there be a known case in men's lives, certainly
that should govern in offences, and especially
when offences are of a nature that reflect upon
the Government. As for those words, illicit*,
malicios}, unlawful; for that I must recite what
Mr. Recorder told you of at first, what all the
judges of England have declared under their
hands. The words I remember are' these:
When, by the king's commaod, we were to
give in our opinion what was to be done in
point of the regulation of the press ; we did all
subscribe, -that to print or publish any news-
books or pamphlets of news whatsoever, is
illegal; that it is a manifest intent to the breach
of the ueace, and they may he proceeded
against by law for an illegal thing. Suppose
now that this thing is not scandalous, what
then ? If there had been no reflection in this
book at all, yet it is iilicitt, and the author
ought to be convicted for it. And that is for
a public notice to all people, and especially
printers and bookseller*, that they ought to
print no book or pamphlet of news whatsoever,
without authority. &o as he is to be convicted
for it as a thing illicit} done, not having au-
thority. And I nill assure you, if you find any
of those p' per^ I shall be more merciful i4 the
ooiisidc ration of their punishment, if it be hi
offensive But if so be they will undertake to
print news foolishly, they ought to be punished,
and shall be punished if they do it without au-
thority, though there is nothing reflecting on
the government as an unlawful thing. Tut
reason \> plain t so fond are men in these days,
that when they will dent their children a peony
for bread, they will lay it oot lor a pamphlet
And it did so swarm, and the temptations wen
so great, that oo man could keep two-pence is
his pocket because of the news. But still they
never repented of laying out their money, nt
they found there was nothing against the go*
vernment. This is oot worth a farthing, then?
i&ynotbingof treason in it, we will not five a
farthing tor it. Therefore this book, if k be
made by him to be published, it is oalawtid*
whether it be malicious or not. Now for the
matter, the subject matter. What, doth Can
think he hath too much wit to fool as that are
to try the malice ? It was sillily writ, if be dai
not believe we understood it, and that wot
very intolerable in us ; I hope I speak skua:
That is, the sort of books that be writ; it most
be with an intent people should know te bat re-
flections be made ; and shall all mankind know,
and shall they that try the cause not know it?
If you find him guilty, and say what he isgviky
of, we wiM judge whether the thing imparts
malice or no. Sir Francis Winoingtoa hath
told >ou there are some things that do neces-
sarily Imply malice in them. If this thing doth
not imply it, then the judges will go accerdieg
to sentence ; if it doth, so that it concerns sot
yon one farthing, whether malicious or net ma-
licious, that is plain. Now, there remains eel*
one thing, that is, Whether or no be was tas
publisher of this book ? For that we have tkn
evidence. The printer tells you, he was tat
person that they looked upon to be the author
of this book, that he sent this book to be printed
by his bov. The printer smith, that he onai
discoursed with him, and he took it for grantee*
His boy brought it. To what purpose ? To hj
printed. The printer's servant says, they toejw
upon him as the author, and 1 have fetch**
sheet by sheet, several sheets from his ewi
hand. I will do right in the case, be it what
it will, let him escape or not. Say his counsel,
Had you this particular paper from bhnf I tug*
this as clearly, an their awn counsel have ob-
jected. For that yon must consider, *****
he is the author of the book. You mutt take
evidence in this case, as you de all the year
long ; that is, in other cases, where you know
there is an absolute certainty that the thhtftf
so: for human frailty must be assewsd ; lb*
is, you may be mistaken. Fair yea do as*
swear, nor are vou bound to swear bsre, »**
he was the publisher of this book ; but if J*
find him guilty, you only swear you beKwfg
so. God help juries, if so be is scatter of ■*
they should premise otherwise. They cam*
swear it. Now the question is, Whether yj*
have evidence enough here to swear he wastig
publisher: for this* the main thing, to f***
that he is so. Now the printer fells yoa tan
he knew the man; that he had fitment***
verse with him about it, and that he «J* *
for granted. Now consider, when s man *■■*'?*
this rate, he doss hot say he was, but that ^
1120] STATS TRIAU, S* ChaMA* IL lUO^TUal tf John Gilts. [1150
took itier granted ; he does not a* much a* say
be it. They will own fa* writ several sheets ot
this hook; tbeo, why not ail this hook? Now we
come to the more principal Matter of fret,
according to reason and the probable evidence
of things: That this person it taken to be the
aether, end ffewt k wee bit boy that brought
theet papers to be printed. If yen cannot say
he sent him, you dan give no verdict while yoa
lire, if yon expect that The printer says, he
had been often discoerting with him ; that his
boy brought them, and that he knew no other
person in the world that had any pretensions
to he the anthor, and if he were the author, no
doubt bat he is the publisher. Whether or no
nay body else had an hand in this, we do not
know, if yon are satisfied in year eeaecien
that ton* believe he is not the author, you mast
aoqoit him. If you are satisfied it is not he,
you must find aim Not Guilty. So that as
yon are honest men and wise, as I believe yoa
are; if you believe he was not the publisher of
this pamphlet, that he did not send his boy Jo
have it printed, but that he came of his own
head, you must find him Not Guilty.
The Jury went from the bar, and nigh
an hour after returned, and brought him in
Guilty.
L^C. J. You have done like honest men.
Mr. Recorder. They have done like houest
See the Proceedings against the Judges,
imflm.
$6$. .The Trial of John Giles, at the Old Bailey, for assaulting and
attempting to murder John Arnold,* esq. : 32 Charles II.
A.i>. I680.f
THE sessions began on Wednesday tbe 7th
day of July 108b. The ninth day Mr. John
Giles was brought to the bar to be tried; and
there pretended that he had witnesses at Men*
month, who ooald testify very material things
fcr him, and therefore prayed the court to pet
off h» trial until the nest sessions. Then the
eonit asked linn his witnesses names, and what
they could say ? Which he then declared to
the court. Upon which Mr. Arnold, being
present and prosecutor •(Tarn pro Domino
MM»>Mk
'* From the Journal of the Common* it ap*
pearttbet this Mr. Arnold had been very active
against the Papist*.
t From a pamphlet! tamled, "The Trial
of John Giles, at the Sessions House in the
Old Bailey : Held by Adjournment from the
7eh day of July, 1680, until the 14th day of the
seine month : The Adjournment being appoint-
ed on purpose for the said Giles his Trial, for
a harberou* and inhuman attempt to essassi-
anee and murder John Arnold, e*V one of the
Justices of Peaee for the county of Monmouth,
and now • member of the honourable House
of Commons, made eubtic by virtue of en
Oder of the Leeds Spiritual and Temporal, in
nejeihnsjent assembled t London, printed by
Itases James, ft* Randal Taylor, and by him
swat at bis boose near ftationers Halt, 1681."
m By virtue of au Order to me granted by the
9 Lords Spiritual and Temporal in parliament
* easembfed, dated on Thursday the 86th of Oct.
4 16)60; I do appoint Randal Taylor, near St a-
' ttnnemHall, -to print this Trial of Mr. John
* Ouee,aad that no other person or perrons
* presume ta print (be same. Jo. Co* en."
« London. Oct. 14, 1660/
N.B. U appears from tbe Lords* Journal,
Chat it was stated on the behalf of Combe,
abet he bad enrcfotty tehee in Short Sand this
Trial, and also those of Lord Ca*tfcihanie*E&2fr-
beah Collier, and Henry Care.
Rege, qanm pro ecipso)/ the oourt asked bit
consent, and want he could say why tbe trial
should not be pet off; that so all the world
might here* Iter say, that Mr. Giles had all
the favour that he could reasonably desire, and
what the oourt could in justice shew him, and
that no manner of excuse might be left him.
After winch Mr. Arnold, in a very pertinent
speech, declared part of the feet and also of
the proceedings before bis wounding, as it bad
occurred between him end Mr. Herbert;
and of his favourable and iust proceedings
against Mr. Herbert, and also against John
Odea, after the fact Was committed ; and de-
cUred that Giles had sufficient notice of bis
trial ; but notwithstanding he did submit aiav
self to the judgment of the court.
Thereepdn tbe court advised a mieeieer
two's apace ; it was ordered, That the court
Should be adjourned antrf the Wednesday fol-
low int, ; by which time Mr. Giles might send
to Monmouth, and have what witnesses brought
up he could get.
And the day appointed being come, end the
court being sat, proclamation was made an*
cording to custom. Then the following jury
were called and sworn, via. Christ. Pluckuet,
William Dodd, Anthony Nurse, John Burton,
Nathan Godwin, George Wood, James Par*
tndge, Lawrence, Wood, John Bredshaw, Wil-
liam Withers, Edward Proby, Rich. BromneM.
Who according to tbe form of law, were charged
to enquire, Whether the prisoner were guilty of
the following indictment upon which lie had
been arraigned, and had pleaded Not Guihyi
Ci. ef Or. The Jurors of oar lord the king,
upon their oaths, do pigment, Thut John Giles
late of the parish of St. Dunstuu in the West,
in the county of Middlesex, gentieamn, not bar*
ing God before his eye*, but being moved and
seduced by the instjgnation of the devil, con-
triving, and maliciously, by a most wicked ooa-
spirecy) with divers other malefactors as the
1131] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II, 1680.— Trial qfJohn Gila, for an [1 139
jurors unknown, forethought and had, intending
one John Arnold, esq. a faithful subject to the
king, and one of the justices of peace for the
county of Monmouth, inhumanly to maim,
wound, kill, and murder, the 15th of April, in
the 32nd year of the reign of our sovereign lord
Charles the 2nd, by the grace of God, king of
England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, de-
fender of the faith, &c. with the said malefac-
tors unknown, at the parish of St. Dunstan in
Che West aforesaid in the county of Middlesex
aforesaid, in and upon him the said John Ar-
nold, then and there being in the peace of God
and the king, unlawfully, voluntarily, and of his
malice forethought, with force and arms ; that
is to say, with swords, staves, and knives, of de-
sign, and by lying in wait, did make an assault;
and him the said John Arnold did then and
there beat, wound, maim, and evilly entreat,
and the throat and face of him the said John
Arnold did grievously cut with a certain knife;
also divers almost mortal wounds then and
there to the said John Arnold ; that is to say,
one wound of the depth of seven inches in his
body, between his belly and his left pap, two
wounds upon his breast, and two wounds in bis
left arm, with certain swords, did then aud
there give and impose, s9 that it was despaired
of the said John Arnold's life, and other enor-
mities then and there unto him did bring, to the
great danger of the said John Arnold, and
against the peace of our said lord the king, his
crown and dignity.
Mr. Gibbt. Gentlemen, this is an indictment
against John Giles, the prisoner at the bar, for
assaulting and intending to dispatch and
murder John Arnold, one of his majesty's
justices of the peace, on the 15th day of April.
This John Giles and several others did intend to
kill Mr. Arnold, and set upon him in Jpt$a-
iiapes-lane, threw him down, and endeavoured
to thrust their swords into him ; but finding no
penetration there, they kneeled upon him, and
with a knife endeavoured to cut his throat, and
in one place made a very large gash, and cut his
face ; he endeavouring to keep them from his
throat, they gave him a wound in his side seven
inches deep, between his belly and left pap.
They gave him several other wounds. To this
be has pleaded Not Guilty.
Mr. Holt. May it please your lordship, and
you gentlemen of the jury, I aui counsel for the
kiog, and the Indictment hath represented to
you the most horrid, vile, and barbarous as-
sault that has been almost ever committed, aud
that any man has heard of; aud which I think
scarce any thing in history can parallel. It
was, gentlemen, in its nature most cruel, by
the giving him bo many wounds as are set forth
in the Indictment; having first way-laid and
surprized him near a place, and at such a time,
as was convenient for the execution of their
wicked design. This Mr. Arnold having occa-
sion to go through Bell- Yard between the hours
of 10 and 1 1 of the clock at night, at the end of
Jackanapes-Lane, he was suddenly seised by
two men, and by them hauled into the lane,
where they gave htm several wounds, and uted
him in a most barbarous manner, And lbs
did not arise from any private difference or
animosity that they could cooceite against Mr.
Arnold ; but from a cause more general, that
is, the prosecution of the horrid popish plot;
agaimt which Mr. Arnold, as became him, and
according to the duty, of his office, be beiag s
justice of the peace, was a very tealoos person.
Gentiemeo, in the first place we will call Mr.
Arnold, who shall plainly prove that this pri-
soner at the bar was one of the three assassins;
and he proves it by a miraculous protidence:
For just before they seized opon him a wonan
in Bell- Yard held out a candle, which gave Mr.
Arnold an opportunity to see the prisoner at
the bar, and did perfectly discern him. Gen-
tlemen, though this is enough, considering the
integrity and reputation of the person; yet we
shall fortify bis evidence by strong and unde-
niable circumstances, circumstances (bat do
particularly relate to this matter. In the fint
place, gentlemen, the very day that this fact
was done, this person, though he had a good
sword by his side, yet be did enquire where be
might buy a more convenient Sword, and did
desire to know where be might have a rapier,
which was thought more convenient for dni
design ; and the very nest day after this feet,
though Mr. Arnold's having armour on was s
secret which no persons but Mr. Walcap,s
justice of the peace, and Mr. Arnold himsdf
knew ; yet this same Giles could say, Arnold
had armour on ; and if Arnold had not bad ar-
mour on, his business bad been done. And
after this fact was committed, this Giles go*
into Gloucestershire, and being pursued by s
guilty conscience, he durst not stay there, J*
he was afraid, as he said himself, of being ap-
prehended for assassinating Mr. Arnold. After
this, gentlemen, he came to one Darcy a court
in Monmouthshire, with his sword which wis
broken, and desired him to mend his sword.
How now, says he, how came this sword to be
broken ? Have you been fighting with the dew
No, says he, I have been lighting with damned
Arnold. And at the very same time «J*?
these villains thought tbey had effected fear
bloody purpose, and gave Mr. Arnold his da-
patch, one of them said to him, Now, villi's,
if thou hast any life in thee, pray for the soul ot
captain Evans; which Evans wa»a pries* eifr
cuted in Wales uppn Mr. Arnold's prosecution,
at whose execution this Giles was piesent, •**
dipped his handkerchief in his blood. ""*>
gentlemen, considering all this, which *•**
make plain to you by Mr. Arnold, and all U**
circumstances; I suppose you will have *hb>
cicnt evidence to find him guilty. ._„
Mr. Thompmm. My lord, and you ft"**?
of the jury, the Indictment has been °9**Z
and the matter of it, that base •XttmPt?!k!
upon Mr. Arnold, that was a justice of JJ
peace in Monmouthshire, that is 8h*wev,!°hjjJ
Indictment. But I must crave vour l°rd,™L|
leave, that i -•— lj. n«m in»
case. This
I may more particularly QVVfzl
i is a case, geotknuoi °* ^
1133] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chau.es II. \6M.— Attempt to murder J. Arnold, esq. \ 113*
great consequence, and though it more imme-
diately concerns Mr. Arnold, yet it highly con-
cerns every man present; yon of the jury, and
I ; nay, every other freeman of England, which
ought to be protected by the laws, must needs
be concerned at so great a violation of them,
and cannot but set our faces againsusuch vil-
lainous and barbarous attempts as these, where-
in there did not want the good- will of the actors
to make it a most barbarous and bloody mur-
der. In the course of oar evidence, and the
method we will take to proceed in, it will be
necessary to do these three things. First of ail,
we shall acquaint you with that which we ap-
Erehend to be the reason and occasion of this
orrid fact. Next we shall telljou what that
feet was. And in the last place, enquire bow
far this defendant is guiltyihereof.
For the first ; give me leave to acquaint you
with what we apprehend to be the true reason
of this assassination. It is notorious to roost
men, but especially to the county of Monmouth,
where Mr. Arnold was a justice of peace, how
active and diligent, how faithful and vigorous a
man he has been in the discharge of his duty
to his king and country, in potting the laws in
eaecution against the papists, and endeavouring
to suppress popery : This was the ground of
their malice, as you will find by the evidence,
and by the several threats that be had before
this act was done. But more particularly there
was this occasion ; there was one whom they
called captain Evans, but indeed was father
Evans, a popish priest; this man in Monmouth
was taken by Mr. Arnold, and was prosecuted
according to law, and convicted. I mention
this circumstance, because oar evidence will re-
fer to it, and that you will see out of the actors
own mouths, if we may Relieve the actors in
this bloody tragedy when they did the fact:
This prosecution of Father captain Evans, was
no small occasion of their villainy which they
acted upon Mr. Arnold. These were the
grouods of their malice, gentlemen, and what
happened to Mr. Arnold was the effect. And
I do the rather mention this particular, that
you may know what sort -of people these were
that practised this villainy upon Mr. Arnold;
for it will be a necessary circumstance in our
.proof against this prisoner at the bar, to shew
that he is one of that bloody tribe.
Geotlemen, the next tkfng is to shew what
this met was, and how it happened. Mr. Ar-
nold had a controversy with one Mr. Herbert,
another justice of the peace in Monmouthshire :
that cause between them was to be heard be-
fore the king and council the next day alter this
iact was committed : I mention Mr. Herbert,
but I hope he is more a gentleman than, to be
concerned in such a ? iilainy. We will not at
this time give any evidence that relates to him:
For truly I believe this could only be the con*
-tnvance of a Jesuit, and the practice of a
bigotted papist. But thus it happened : Mr.
Arnold going to ^attend his counsel upon this
occasion, to prepare himself for this heariog
that was to be before the kiug and council ; in
Bell- Yard there he is set upon, there he is
wounded, there he is murdered; as these as-
sassins thought. And this Mr. Arnold will
prove to you when he comes -to give bis evi-
dence. This to the fact.
Gentlemen, the next is now to consider how
far this man at the bar is guilty of it ; and for
that, gentlemen, we will give you evidence of
several sorts :
1. The positive proof of Mr. Arnold himself,
who, as Mr. Holt has observed before, almost
by a miracle, discovered the defendants face ;
for a light accidentally coming out of one of
the neighbouring houses, and the defendant
looking at Mr. Arnold to see whether he was
the man they wanted, immediately upon that
he was assaulted and carried into Jackanapes-
Lane, and was wounded in several places.
This, gentlemen, is plain, and will be positively
proved; and thin when this man was taken up
on suspicion, and was carried before a justice
of the peace, and Mr. Arnold was sent for,
though Mr. Arnold* had no private intimation, '
no kind of knowledge before-hand of Giles's
being taken ; and there were several men stood
besides this man, yet though he had never seen
him before, but at the time when the fact was
done, Mr. Arnold immediately charged him.
with the fact, and as soon as be heard hioi
speak be knew his voice. This was so plain
upon Giles, that lie had not the power, though
he might have had the confidence, at that time
to deny it : But instead of a denial said, the
matter could but amount to an assault and bat-
tery. In the next place we have evidence
from the defendant's own momh, which in a
case of this nature ought to weigh as much as
can be, and I think is as much as the nature of
the thing is capable of. This man the very
next day after Mr. Arnold had been thus as-
saulted, discoursing with one Phillips by name,
and relating the business which happened to
Mr. Arnold, and before be could know he had
armour on, as we will prove from the circum-
stance of the time (what does Giles say ?) says
he, Damn him, rot him, Mr. ArnoW, said he,
had armour on. And this, gentlemen, could
not be known by him at that time, if be bad
not been a party in this base attempt. And
there is a circumstance that goes yet beyond
this, which I would have you observe, that
when Mr. Arnold was assassinated, when they
made their attempt, in the very act were these
words used, Damn him, rot him, he has armour
on. These very words were spoken then; and
upon that they fell to cut his throat. We
have this circumstance more ; he had broken
his sword, and went to a cutler, one.Darcy by
name ; this man was a papist, and says he,
Where hast thou been, Giles, fighting with the
devil? No, it was with damn*d Arnold. This
we will prove to you j These are evidences that
are positive.
Some other witnesses we have, that will he
very material to prove to you what sort of man
the defendant is : that he has declared there is
no plot ; that those that believe it are rogues ;
4
1135] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles U. ! GBO.—Trwl (/John Giles, for an [1130
and 1 thought them to be servants belonging to
some of nty company, who bad followed me oa
7 celling ; and m I came into Ifcltarard, oat
them went fatter than I went, and ret be*
fore me, and turned and looked earnestly is nt
face, and I went by him, when a woman stent
ing in a door about the middle of Bell-yard;
trith a caudle in her hand, I looked in hit face,
and that person was the prisoner at tbe bar;
and when his companion or companion cum
up to him, I beard tbem laugh aloud ; I took do
notice, but went on, and went at far as to that
house.
Mr. Recorder (Sir George Jefieries.) Yea
knew him before, Mr. Arnold?
Mr. Arnold. I did not know him so well be-
fore at to know bis face. At tbe kennel at the
end of Jackanapes Lane, I looking down to find
the kennel, a cloak was thrown over my bead!
then I found very rough bands upon my shoal*
den, and they ran me into Jackanspes-Laoe,
just cross the lane, against tbe opposite wall,
and tbey ran my bead so hard I think they broke
it ; I drew my sword before, but before I coaid
use it, I was struck, and immediately upon that,
one of them struck me ; then I apprehended
what it was, but could not torn to make atf
defence. I received a second blow, epd f«,
and tbe first thing I was sensible of was a vary
sharp quick thrust in my aide, and tbe point at
that thrust ran into my belly ; then I recoreriog
began to make what defence I could. Wiiba
broad awor d I was ran through my arm, aad
with a small weapon I was run through in aao-
tber place of my arm. 1 bad several otbtf
wounds ; one of tbem set his mot hard upoa
my breast, and kept me down, and he was, at
I conceive, run into the leg by one of bis com*
panions, for I heard him say, ' Damme tboa
' bast spoiled my leg.' Tbey laughed all tbe
while, and were exceeding merry. I had then
on a pair of bodice of whalebone, notwitb*
standing which I had four or five weands in bit
body through tbem, for they were not proof,
but tbey imagined tbey were, finding their
swords dosibaeeometimes, and then said oaeof
tbem, * Damme, he has armour oa, cat he
4 tbroat.' Lmaiediately one kneeled dowa, and
Sve me several cuts in tbe lower part of tbe
se, end I did wasat I could to detendinyse^
but they have given me some indelibk marks,
ehnractors chat wilb never be obliterated wWe
I live, and I am afraid I shall never be asysei
again, by reason of tbe braises in s»y head aad
breast. Bv a candle in a window, 1 coneeiveai
sir Thomas Baldwin's hojise, aada<4ne *******
in his yard, gave them the am diaarbasce,
and a boy coming by with a link the same time,
i both saw the nice of tbe prisoner at tlie bar
•gain, and atmembe* ed I saw him to il* I**9
just before. They then pulled tbe cloak ton
csTme, and I seeing the light, and being eased »
the wweht, I staaiaed all my strength and cned
out, and then some company came in, who are
bare to prove it; but seeing me all Wood eat
dirt, they stood gating on me a time, but »t last
took me op and earned me into tLeSugar-losi,
and if ever any of the lords in the Tower should
suffer, this nation should feel a bloodier war
than ever* it had done ; by which you may see
bis bloody nature. Gentlemen, besides this we
shall prove (according to their custom of saasor
miug) that he has from time to time pretended
as if Mr. Arnold had done this business himself,
or some of his friends, to revive the plot. A
very fine contrivance indeed ! for a person to
atab himself, and cut his own throat, to revive
tbe plot. These things we will make out clearly
to you : And 1 must tell yon it is a notorious
crime, such a met as has no precedent : there
is no remembrance in history, that I know of,
of such barbarous attempts, except in tbe
case of sir Edmund togry Godfrey, who was
most barbarously murdered by this sort of men.
And this case, gentlemen, differs from that
enly in this, that there they accomplished their
villainy upon him : but tbe providence of God
saved Mr. Arnold's life, and I hope to as good
purpose : Per as providence ordered that to
confirm the truth of the popish plot ; so this
assassiimtjon of Mr. Arnold moat convince all
raankiud (not concerned in the plot itself) that
tbie damned Popi&h plot still continues, and
that it is high time for all honest men, as much
as in them lies, to endeavour to suppress ir.
You, gentlemen, will do your duty in finding
ibis man guilty (if tbe evidence we give satisfies
year oonsciencea that be is so, else God n>-
t>id% and then I doubt not but tbe court will
do their duty, in putting such an exemplary pu-
nishment upoa this villain, that may deter tbe
like barbarous and bloody attempts for tbe
future.
Mr. Arnold sworn.
Mr. Thompson. Pray, Mr. Arnold, give an ae-
- count of this business.
Mr. Arnold. My lord, £ was ordered by tbe
king and council to attend upon them the next
day after this villainy befel me. I was upon the
16th day of April in my chamber in the after-
noon* and ray lord Chandois and several other
persons came to my chamber, and one Evans,
ease of tbe messengers belonging to tbe council,
•erne to ajvc me notice that amy bearing (which
1 was infomaed was to be at four in tbe after-
neon) was ordered to be at tea ia the morning,
wbiob waa the reason I sent my servants out to
five notice of this alteration to my witnesses aad
counsel. And though 1 had resolved net So stir
out ebat night, I went out with tbe company so
tbe Hevil-tawera, where we went, and staid till
about tenor past ; and just as we were break-
ins; up, I recollected that I bad some busmess
with Mr. Phillips, who is a coaaeellor at law,
aad lives near the end of Bell-yard. I desired
tbe company to stay, and I would oame to diem
an a moment. I went to tbe room whee* se-
• vera! servant were, and called to some ef tbem
to go with me ; For several of my firiends mid
Oeigbboovt being in town, I very often took
•heir servants wish me, whoa mine were busy or
oetcflhe«ay. As I went cross ilsat-ttreet, I
did sat two men aa campaign cloaks feUew we,
US?] STATE T&IAI& 52 Charles II. mo.—Jtta*pi to murder Mr. Arnold. (H3S
nnd from thence I wai curried to my lodging,
where all the company I left came to me, and a
surgeon was sent for, who is also here to prove
his knowledge of the condition he found me in.
And when they went away, they did not steal
Away as other malefactors used to do, butdapt
their swords close to their bodies, and went
away laughing aloud ; hot as they were going,
one of them said these words, ' Mow, you dog,
pray for, or pray again for the soul of Captain
.£vans,' Captain Evans was a Jesuit, and was
executed at Cardiffe, for being a priest ; and I
have been informed by several persons of good
quality, that tthen the under sheriff came to
give him notice that he had a warrant for his
npeedy execution, the said Evans being in a
game at tennis, said ' God damme, I will play
out my set first.'
Recorder. Mr. Arnold, I would know one'
thing : Will you undertake to swear positively
that this person was ooe of the persons who
. ateot before you ? Will you take it upon your
ob th, that that person, the prisoner at the bar,
went before you ?
Mr. Arnold. I will take it upon nty oath, as
Jar as a man can do, for one man, it is possible,
may he like another both by his voice and
"tiis face ; I can swear I believe he is the
roan.
Mr. Thompson. You are satisfied upon the first
sight that you had of him in tha country, that
he was the man.
Mr. Arnold. Yes, sir, and he can tell you
that by a very good token, for I had like to
have run him. through. •
Recorder. We must not expect that there
can be exact and positive proof; for men that
commit offences of this impudent nature do not
usually call witnesses to he present to see them
done ; therefore we would come as near as we
can to circumstances, whereby a fact of such a
nature is to be proved. Mr. Arnold, do you
believe that the prisoner at the bar was
one of the persons that went before you in
Bell Yard ?
Mr. Arnold. Upon my conscience I do be-
lieve he was the man.
Recorder. What o'clock was it ?
"Mr. Arnold. About 11 o'clock, or between
10 and 11.
Recorder. When the link came there, was
there three 4 And do you believe by the light
you had by the link, that that ws* one of
the persons th at were there ?
Arnold. I saw hfc free and habit, and be-
lieve be was.
Recorder. What habit bad be on.?
Arnold. He had a grey cloak, a campaign
cloak, and a coat, I think, lined with red. It
is impossible to give an account of every par-
ticular under those circumstances I was in.
JU&rder. >]jt is not to be expected that a
nan under your circumstances should be extra-
ordinary precise ip circumstances'; therefore
it is asked you, that according to the best of
fom apprehension^ on to ight acquaint the court
arith tfcoee cmvnutajMtf 4b*\ m*y b* re-
voi. YU.
memhered by the jury, that they \inny see
there be no injury dune to the prisoner at the
bar, but that .rijjbt be done on both sides, and
that in every circumstance.
Mr. Holt. Now, Sir, we will call Mr. Phil,
lips, with whom he had this.discourse the next
day.
Recorder. Will the prisoner ask hun any
questions ?
Pris. Truly Mr. Arnold Jtnew me in Mon-
mouthshire, and knev&nieaswellasany man in
the city.
Recorder. Did you not very well know him,?
Arnold. It is very possible I might see him,
and often at assizes and sessions, but not Ip
know him ; nor did ever know whether • his
name were Giles, or what it was. Your lord-
ship sees many persons here, and often, and it
is possible do not know them ; he lives I think
a dozen miles from me. .
Pris.. That is a wonder; if it please you,
sir,' my wife is a near relation ^to you, both by
father and mother, and I have spoken with you
in your chamber.
Arnold. It is possible she may, but I do not
know it. ,
• Stephen Phillips.
>>
Mr. Holt. Pray, Mr. Phillips, give sn ac-
count of what discourse you had with Giles
the day after the business was done.
Phillips. We went to the tavern, and drank
two or three bottles of wine, and we hid soma
discourse concerning Mr. Arnold ; it was about
eii;ht or nine in the evening the next day, some
discourse happened concerning his miserable
condition, aud how be, was hurt, and of that
nature.
Recorder. How many was there in corn*
panv?
Phillips. One or two more.
Recorder. What house ?
Phillip* At the Crown tavern in New-street,
in Covent Garden j and among the rest, Mr.
Giles was talking of it, and said he, ' God
' damn him, God rot him, be had armour on ;'
the word was, * God damn him/ or, ' God -tot
' him, he had armour on, they say/
Mr. Holt. What time of night was that f
Phillips. As near as I can remember, it was
about eight or nine the next day in the evening.
Mr. Thomson. The very words that Arnold
swears when they went to cut his throat.
Phi. My lord, if you please, there was Mr.
Phillips and another; and I spake nothing but
what I heard as news, ,that they had killed him
if be had not had armour on.
Recorder. For that matter, Sir. Giles, yon
shall have tpur time, and you may call up other
witnesses, but the gentleman positively swears
you said these words ; and if so, I will assure
you it does not look as if you were akin to
himj or your wife either.
Walter Wotfuns.
Mr. Mult. Mr. Watkins. what did yon.hear
thai Giles, should say in GUucestershini about
this business?
4D
i
1 139] . STATE TRIALS, Si Charles II. 1680.— Trial of John Giles, for am [1140
Mr. Thomson. What said be about this busi-
ness of Mr. Arnold ?
Watkitu. My lord, all I can say is this : I
being at the stating some accounts between Mr.
John Giles an.1 Mr. Richmond, I asked
Mr. Giles for some horsehair to make a
fishing line : Mr. Giles replied, That he
bad left very good hair for me at a farrier's
in Qloucester; for he and Mr. Herbert
Jones made such haste through the town
of Gloucester, that they did not call for the
horsehair. I asked Mr. Giles what was the
occasion of his haste? said he, for fear we
should be stopped in our journey, as suspected
to lie concerned in Mr. Arnold's business.
Recorder. What time was that ?
Watkins. About the 5th of May.
George Richmond.
Mr. Holt. Mr. Richmond, what can you
say concerning this thing ?
Richmond. I desired Mr. Giles to meet me,
that we might even our accounts ; and upon
the 5th of May last he met me, and I desired
Mr. Watkins to be present as a witness.
Recorder. Where was it? m
Richmond. At Uske. And as we w?re
making up the account, said Mr. Watkins to
Mr. Giles, Where is the horsehair you promi-
sed me to make fishing-lines ? Giles replied,
He left very good horsehair at a farrier's in
Gloucester: and he asked him, Why he left
it? He said, He made haste for fear of being
taken and stopped for. Mr. Arnold's business.
I cannot say whether he called him esq.
Arnold, or Mr. Arnold, or what ; be seldom
used to give him so good words.
Walter Powel.
-Qffr. Holt. What do you know concerning
Giles his being at the cutler's ?
Fowel. If it please you, sir, I was at the cut-
ler's.
Recorder. Name the time when and the
place where.
Powel. The 5th of May, at a place called
Uske in Monmouthshire, Mr. Giles and I, we
came there ; and Mr. Giles asked Peter Darcy,
Whether he would mend him that sword or no ?
But Mr. Darcy had some business that he could
not get time to mend it that morning, but
would do it in the aftornoon. Says Darcy,
Where have you been ? you have been hot at
it. What, have you been fighting with the
devil ? No, said he, with damned Arnold.
Recorder. What did you say when the cutler
asked him, whether he had been- fighting with
the devil ? And he said again, No, not with
the devil, but with damned Arnold ?
Towel. Peter Darcy said he must not speak
such words; and Giles's wife plucked him
by the coat, and bid him hold his tongue.
Mr. DommL Who was by ?
Powel. There was one Peter Darcy.
Mr. Darnalx Was one John Jones there ?
PoweL 1 think there, was another indeed
by, the apprentice.
Recorder. There was the apprentice, but he-
does not know his name, and Darcy and Giles
and his wife.
William Richmond.
Mr. Holt. What did you hear Giles sty
about the rapier ? ■ " *
W. Richmond. He asked roe in tbeafternooo
before Mr. Arnold was hurt, where he might
buy a very good rapier : I told him I could
not tell. He then had a good back-sword m
the house.
Mr. Gibhs. Tell the court what acquaintance
Giles had with Father Lewis the Jesuit, since
ei ecu ted.
W. Richmond. My lord, he told me he woold
go to the executioner, and persuade him notts
execute Mr. Lewis, but I had tbe executioner
locked up, and I would not suffer him ; bet I
did see him very active at the execution, dip-
ping cloths in Lewis's blood.
Mr. Thompson. What do you say as to his
coming to his lodging ?
W. Richmond. We went to several places
that day, and at eight or nine, or between eight
and nine, we came to the King V Arms io 5c.
Martin's Lane, and I left him at the kitchen
fire, and went up into the chamber and drank
a considerable quantity of drink ; and as oetr
as I can guess, it was between twelve and one
o'clock before he came to "his bed, for after
I was going to bed, about one o'clock I heard
John Giles come up the stairs, and bid* oe
good night ; he called at my door just si I
was pulling elf my breeches to go into bed.
Recorder. What time was this ?
W. Richmond. As near as I can goes, it wis
between twelve and one, or very near one.
Recorder. At what house was it ?
W. Richmond. The KingVAnns in St. Mar-
tinVLane.
Recorder. What did you say when tbe m*id
wan making the bed ?
W. Richmond. I asked her who it was for?
And she. said, for a man that was not willing to
lie with any body.
Recorder. What time did you come to the
house ?
W. Richmond. About nine.
Recorder. Did you stay in that boose till
that time ?
W. Richmond. I lay in the house, sir.
Recorder. You were not out of the bouse the
while ?
W. Richmond. No, sir, I was not oat of it
Recorder. And you are sure that you did
not see 'him again till he came to your door
going to bed ?
W. Richmond. Yes, sir.
Recorder. What time was that ?
W. Richmond. Nigh one.
Mr. Thompson. You see the cantnfaM*
between this, and what this fellow says °P*J
his examination ; where he sayi be wai s-oea
at nine o'clock. , .
Recorder. Where did you go at that time f
Richmond. We went to Long !**•> * "*
Mil) STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 10«O.— Attempt to murder Mr. Arnold, [1143
Philpot's, and she told us her husband was
gone to exercise at the next church ; I do not
know the church's name, and there we went and
looked upon the soldiers, but did not see him ;
we came back to his house again, and the gen-
tlewoman gave us a tankard of beer or ale.
And after that we went back, and we had a
rnind to make sport with a country-fellow we
bad with us, and went into WhetstoneVPark,
from thence we went to the Helmet in Drury-
I*ane.
Recorder. You went to Whetstone's Park,
mnd what did you spend there ?
W* Richmond. Six- pence, and he paid it.
Recorder. Whither did you go from thence?
W. Richmond. Into Drury-lane.
Recorder. How long did you stay in Drury-
lane ?
W. Richmond. It was not long, sir, about an
Lour.
. Recorder. Where after that ?
W. Richmond. From thence to the Peacock,
and staid till eight or nine.
Recorder. Who did you meet withal between
your going from the Helmet in Drury-lane to
the Peacock ?
W. Richmond. We met with one Powel
and another, and one Elizabeth Edwards.
Recorder. What did you drink there ?
W, Richmond. We did drink both ale and
brandy.
Recorder. Well said : How long did you stay
there?
W. Richmond. We staid there a pretty while,
an hour or more, or two hours.
Recorder. What time of night was it that
you went from thence?
W. Richmond. About eight or nine.
Recorder. And then you went to your lodg-
ings?
W. Richmond. Yes.
Recorder. Did you drink at the RingVanns ?
W. Richmond. No, we drank not all together.
Recorder. And there you staid till twelve or
one o'clock. •
W. Richmond. Yes.
Recorder. But can you remember, as near
as you can guess, what time was it you saw this
maid making of the bed ?
* W. Richmond. I cannot say positively, but
I judge it was about twelve o'clock.
Mr. Thompson. As to that circumstance of
his coming home at twelve at oigbt, desire Mr.
Arnold to give an account of his examination
what time of night he came to his lodging.
Mr. Holt. Do you believe that is John Giles's
hand?
Recorder. That is a copy.
Recorder. He did confess ^jt before a justice
of the peace, that be was at his lodging at ten
o'clock : This I heard him say, and I believe
he won't deny it; and I heard him own this
examination, my man will prove it.
Giles. Deny it ? Yes, I will deny it, there
was no such* word said : I did say, Mr. Arnold,
J went to bed then.
Att. Qen. (Sir Creswcl Levin*.) The jury
mast take notice of this ; that upon bis exami-
nation be says, he came home by nine ; which
is before the thing was done : But by proof he
did not come in till twelve, which was after the
thing was done.
Holt. We will give you now, gentlemen, an
account of this man's principles.
Recorder. This is the business: Richmond
says, they came together to their lodging before
night, but he left him at the kitchen fire, and
went into another room to drink with some
company; and this Mr. Richmond says, his
bed was not made till .twelve o'clock, and that
he himself went to bed about one of the clock,
and that he heard the prisouer at the bar, while
be was pulling off his breeches, call to him, and
therefore he took notice of that as a circum-
stance, that he does particularly remember he
did not go to bed till that time ; and he says
he did not stir from that place after nine o'clock.
Mr. Thompson. There is a contradiction in
that.
Recorder. There is no contradiction : The '
other witness says, that he came along with ,
him at nine o'clock.
Mr. Thompson. I will tell you where this is a
contradiction.
Att. Gen. He says he came to the house
at nine o'clock, but he came not to bed till after
one. '
Recorder. The evidence does not go so far :
Richmond says they came to the King's- Arms,
and left him in the kitchen at nine o'clock, and
he went into his chamber and staid up till one,
and all that time he did not come to bed.
Mr. Thompson. So far it lies upon him to
give an account where he was between nine
and twelve.
Bridges.
Mr, Holt. Hcark you, sir, have you had any
discourse with Giles concerning the Plot, and
concerning the lords in the Tower ? And what
did he say to you ?
Mr. Bridges. I had some discourse with him
concerning the papists ; he that said that it was
the best religion, and those that were not of
that religion should be damned : I alledged
against mm, and told him the contrary: I
thought not. Can it be such a religion, said I,
that will act such things against the king and,
the government ? Says he, if any says there is
snch a Plot against the king or the government,
be is a rogue and a thief.
Mr. Holt. What did he say of the lords in-
die Tower ?
Bridges. Nothing more.
Giles. How long ago was this ?
Recorder. When was this ?
Bridges. This was, my lord, about a twelve*
month ago.
Mr. Thompson. Did he speak any thing to
you further Concerning the Plot ?
Bridges. Not further.
Giles. My lord, I beseech you I may speak
to this man. Do you hear, sir, were not these
the words that 1 said when you charged me to
1 143] STATE TRIAI& 32 Charles H. 1680.— Trial qfJoh* Giles, for an (1144
be a papist, that 1 knew of no popish plot, and
they that said I wus a papist, or knew any thing
of the Plot, were rogues or whores or worse ?
Bi idges. Yoh *aid thus, (hat the papists were
the (.est religion, and that those thai were Dot
of that reigiuti were damned.
Gilt*. Iluv« not you been a papist, sir?
Brtdpcs I am iiot now.
Gilis. Will you say that I nm a papist ?
Bridges. I sny you defended it so much, \
thought you were. Said I, I wonder, it being
such a good r- Itgion, that they would offer to
act soch a thing against the king and govern-
mem. Said he, he that says this Plot is acted*
by the papists, is a rogue and a thief.
Giles. Uow long ago is this?
Bridges. A t ^ejve-month ago ; you remem-
ber it well enough ; you remember when you
sent for ine to the George.
Walter Moor.
Mr. Holt. What discourse have you had with
him concerning the Plot ?
Mr. Thompson. What has he said about it ?
Moor. He said, if the lords in the Tower
were execoted, there would be a greater war
than erer was in England, amd swore .that if
these lords were put to death, it would cost
more blood than ever was spilt. And I va»ked
him again, why they should not be put to death
if they should deserve it? For if a poor man
had done such a fault, he would be hanged out
of the way presently. He said again, they did
not deserve it, for there was no plot at all.
Giles. Pray, sir, who was with you when you
say I said these words ?
Moor. I was at George Taylor's house.
Giles. Did not wou say that George Taylor
discoursed this with you ?
Mr. Thompson. Is this the man that spake it,
upon your oath ?
Moor. Yes, this whs the man.
Giles. What did Taylor say to you ? Do you
think, my lord, I would say such a thing to such
a man as this is?
Recorder. Do you hear, Mr. Giles, for that
matter is not tlie question ; the. man has sworn
it; except the jury know of their, own know-
ledge that the man is perjured, he is not so as
to me.
Moor. It is the first tium that I ever took an
oath.
Mr. Reynold.
Mr. Holt. Mr. Reynold, What have you
heard Giles my concerning Mr. ArnoM ?^
Reynold. Sir, I was in company with John
Giles and another, and we had discourse con-
cerning one A moid, and John Giles said
Ref order. What was that ?
Reynold.* I being m Compaify with hhn, we
fell in discourse about Justice Arnold, how he
was wounded.
Recorder. Where was it ?
Reynold. In Monmouthshire, tit Langoohe,
the second day of May r John Giles answered
us, that he could trot see but he wounded hhn-
rfeif.
Recorder. What day did you say ?
Reynold. The second day of May.
Rtcorder. He did discourse the 5th day of
May at Uske, I would fain know when be cams
through Gloucester.
Mr. Thompson. What did he say about Mr.
Arnold ?
Reynold. He thought that ht wounded nto-
self. Says his wife, how could he wound him-
self in his arms? Said he, it was himself, or
some of his friends.
Rreorder. Or some of his relations.
Reynold. Some of his friends.
Mr. Hobbs.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Hobbs, Pray ten haw
you found Mr. Arnold when he was wounded.
Hobbs. I found Mr. Arnold bleeding.
Mr. Thompson. Tell what wounds they weft.
Hobbs. Two in his arm, two others upon the
face, another upon the throat, which bled very
much ; another two upon the breast, and sue
in the belly.
Mr. Thompson. What depth might that be?
Hobbs. Two inches and a half long.
Mr. Thompson. Where else ?
Hobbs. There was another upon his breast
Mr. Thompson. What depth ?
Hobbs. They were not very deep, but that
was one upon the belly six inches and an half;
there were two through his arm, and a wound
and several bruises in his head.
Mr. Thompson. This is likely to be a t*
contrivance, that he should do it himself, »
likely as that sir Edmundbory Godfrey put t*
own sword through his own body after his neck
was broke. [A great shout given.]
Lord Mayor. t)o you believe a man coew
wound himself so?
Hobbs. No, sir.
Recorder. T believe a man could do it, bat I
believe a man would not do it niorsetf.
Fifteen or sixteen witnesses more (or d*
king, that were attending in the court, were as*
examined, the court being in some haste sod
the king's counsel not pressing to have then
examined, there being so full evidence: nor
was there one word replied to the prisoner1! wit-
nesses, they being all either frivolous Oram-
tradictory.
Mr. Darnai. May it please your W^JPj
and you gentlemen of the jury, lam of coons*
for Giles, the prisoner at the bar, and I o»ast
needstav there has been a strong evidence gN*
against him ; and if I were sure he was con-
cerned in this barbarous attempt upon Mr.
Arnold, I would not open my mmith w dm
cnose : but if my^fief be trtfe, I make ooouw
rirm but to Satisfy y6*eJor*»nip aod ibejuty
nay and MfeArnoJd himself, that ht bad no
hand in thisjbloody action.
And first, -my lord, in answer to the ^
dence that hath been given, ti»W»Jbffg j£"!
sworn amcrrrg others, Mr.'RifchmWflT^ JjTl
lips, and one Powel. First, is W ^*r;
evrdertc*, er What passed in tfc*wrse*t«*
1 145] STATE TRIALS 52 Charles U. 1680.— Attempt to murder Mr. Arnold. [1 140
Crown tavern in Covent-Garden ; we hare a
witness here who was present at the same time,
that will give you an account of the whole dis-
course, and that there were no such words said
by Giles in relation to Mr. Arnold, as Damn
him, he had armour on ; and as to the evi-
dence given bv Watkins, of what passed at
Uske, about Mr. Herbert Jones's and the pri-
soner's making such speed through Gloucester,
we have witnesses, here, my lord, that will
satisfy yoor lordship and the jury, that when
they came to Gloucester, though it was at
she time of the general quarter sessions, yet
they staid there four or five hours, at a publio-
liouse, without the least sign of their appre-
hension of any pursuit ; which shews the im-
probability of any such discourse at Uske : and,
any lord, as to the evidence of Povrel of what
was said in Oarer's the cutler's shop at Uske ;
we have, my lord, a witness here that was pre-
sent at that time, who will give your lordship
and the jury an account, that the words said
then by the prisoner did much differ from v/ hat
Air. Powel swears ; besides the improbability
that any man should be so weak to publish
himself guitar oi such a crime as this in this
manner ; alter his majesty's proclamation out,
with the promise of so great s reward to any
man that would make a discovery of this horrid
action : so far, my lord, we /hall answer the
evidence that hath been given : but to satisfy
your lordship and the jury, tnat it was im-
possible the prisoner at the bar could be con-
cerned in this foul action, we shall prove to
your lordship, that upon the 15tb of April,
upon the evening of which day this bloody
attempt was made upon Mr. Arnold, the pri-
soner at the bar came first to town ; and we
shall prove that he came to town, bot at one
o'clock that day. We shall prove further, if
my brief be true, by five or six substantial wit-
nesses, against whom there can be no exception,
bow and where he employed himself all that
day, from the minute that be came to town :
and that when he returned to his .inn, about
nine tj'dock at night, the maid of the inn locked
his chatnber-door, after he was a- bed, and kept
the key of the chamber all night. And, my
lord, if all this be clearly proved, I make no
doubt but your lordship and the jury, and all
persons here, will be satisfied that the prisoner
«t the bar is not guilty of this indictment. My
lord, we will first begin with Mr. Philpot.
Mr. Philpot.
Mr. Darnal. Mr. Philpot, pray do you ac-
quaint my lord, and the jury, what discourse
passed between you and Giles at the Crown
tavern in Covent-'Garden.
Philpot. We drank one bottle of claret, Mr.
Phillips came in when the bottle was almost
ended. But by and by same friends, came in,
and they asked htm what news, sir ? Said he,
I bear of no new 3 but a cruel assassination upon
Mr. Arnold, but for my part I am sorry for it :
but, said he, if any thing should be upon Mr.
Arnold, it is a ray strange thing.
Mr. Darnal. Were you there all the time.
Sir?
Philpot. Yes, sir, all the time.
Darnal. And you heard no other discourse ?
Philpot. No, he did not say ' damn him' nor
• sink him,' for I hate such company.
Mr. Holt. Mr. John Philpot, where do you
live 1— Philpot. In Long- Lane.
Mr. Bolt. What sign do you live at?
Philpot. At the Crown.
Mr. Holt. What trade are you f
Philpot. A salesman.
Mr. Darnal. Now we will go on- to the dis-
course at Uske, about their passing with sucb
speed through Gloucester.
Recorder. Mr. Darnal, they do not pretend
, you were in great fear, hut they say you said
so. It is not the question, whether you did
stay long at Gloucester, or no ? But the ques-
tion is, whether you told this man so f Be-
cause the man asked you, why you would leave
the hair at the farrier's, in order to a fishing-
line f Truly I was in great haste, for fear I
should be taken up about the business of Mr.
Arnold.
Mr. Darnal. It is very true, and therefore
we bring this evidence to shew the improba-
bility that we should say any such thing, when
it was false, and especially when it was to ac-
cuse ourselves of a crime.
Herbert Jones. Mayor of Monmouth.
Mr. Darnal ^Mt. Jones, pray give an ac-
count to the jury of your passing through
Gloucester, and how Jong you staid there.
Jones*' My lord, I came with the prisoner.
Recorder. What day did yon come througb
Gloucester?
Jones. I cannot positively tell you the day :
we went out of town upon Friday, we came to
Gloucester either Wednesday or Friday, and
there we went to the Old Bear in Gloucester,
and there staid an hour before we went to
dinner; it was a public time, the quarterly
sessions, and several people came to us to
hear the news; we toM them, and were as sorry
for it as any persons could be, and did confess
it a very HI thing. We went from the Old
Bear ath r we had dined to the New Bear, and
drank several pints of cydeY. I believe by the
oath I have taken, tve were- several hours in
the town.
Mr. Mt (bourn. Do you know Mr. Arnold is
acquainted with Mr. Giles ?
Jones. I do believe Mr. Arnold has great
reason to be acquainted with Giles.
Mr. Thompson. Yes, now he has*
Mr. Milbourn. Was he chief constable f
Jones. Yes, he was ; and certainly Mr. Ar-
nold in reason would take notice of the chief
constable.
Mr. Milbourn. Mr. Herbert Jones, I am in*
formed that you know this gentleman goes
to church and receires the Sacrament. Give au
account what religion he is of.
Jones. Always a Protestant; I saw Mm at
church within this half year.
1147] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. ItfSO.— Trial qf John Gila, far an [1148
Giles. I can shew a certificate of my going
to church since I came to town.
Recorder. There are many people that go
to church to serve their turn.
Giles. And, my lord, I have taken the oaths
of allegiance and supremacy.
Mr. Thompson. An excellent protestant to
discourse so of the Plot, I must needs say that.
John Jones, the Cutler's Apprentice.
Reorder. How old are you ?
Jones. Between fifteen and sixteen.
Recorder. Hark you, do you know the dan-
ger of forswearing yourself ?
Jones. Yes, Sir.'
Recorder. What is ii ?
Jones. I am in danger of everlasting fire.
Recorder. Very well.
Mr. Darnal. My lord, this is the apprentice
to the Cutler, in whose shop Powel says we
bad such discourse : June*, pray ''tell my lord
and the jury, whether you were by when one
Walter Powel came into your master's shop,
when he and Giles were talking about Giles's
sword ?
Jones. Sir, John Giles came in the morning
and brought a sword, my master was not
within ; and be told me, give this sword to
your master to be mended ; so I took the
sword and laid it up till my master came in :
when he came in, I told my master of it ; and
when he came again, this Walter Powel was
in the shop : said Giles to my master, Did you
mend my sword ? »ays be : says my master,
Mr. Giles, How came your sword broke ? Have
you been fighting with the devil ? No, says he,
for I never met with Arnold.
People. Hiss 'in, hiss.
. Recorder. It does not become the decency
and gravity of a court of justice, t» be humming
and hissiog when facts are trying of this great
concernment.
Mr. Milburn. It was the common discourse
there that Mr. Arnold had been assaulted.
Recorder. You have been in a great combat;
have you been fighting with the devil ? What
did he say to that ?
Junes. He never met with Arnold ; my
matter asked him, Mr. Giles, Have you been
in some battle or other ? Have you been fight-
ing with the devil ? No, Sir, for I never met
with Arnold.
Recorder. You did not hear bis wife bid him
hold his tongue ?
Jones. No, sir.
Mr. Thompson. Did he tell yon how he did
break his sword ?
Jones. No, sir.
Giles. My lord, here is Mr. Philpot can tell,
that I was sitting down in a chair', and broke
off a piece of the guard.
Mr. Thompson. You will do well to prove it,
Sir.
Mr. Milburn. Was there any discourse in
the country about Mr. Arnold ?
Recorder. Did they not talk any thing about
killing the devil ?
Jones. No, sir.
Mr. Darnal. . If your lordship pleases, «e
will call witnesses to give an account when we
came to town, and where we were all that
day ; and we will call the maid that locked the
chamber-door after we were in bed, oo the
same night when this fact was committed.
John Howel. ^
Mr. Darnal. John Howel, pray tell jay lord
and the jury when Giles came to town?
Hornet. If it please you, my lord, I came to
town, and John Giles together.
Recorder. What time of the day was it ?
Howel. It was twelve o'clock.
Recorder. Who is thy matter?
Howel. William Richmond.
Mr. Darnal. What time of the night was if,
friend, when you heard him call to your master,
and bid him good night ?
Howel. About 11 or 12 o'clock.
Mr. Milburn. You say about nine yop were
at your lodging with him) Did your party com-
pany with him?
Howel. Yes, Sir, we did.
Mr. Thompson. Where did you go at that
time ?
Howel We went into the chamber, and
drank 8 pints of brandy.
Mr. Thompson. What time of night was that?
Recorder. AfteV 2 pints of brandy, I wonder
how be can remember any thing.
Ann Beron.
Mr. Milburn. Tell what time of the night
Giles came in; where you were in his company;
what time of uigbt it was ? -
Recorder. Speak as loud as thou would'st da
if thou were at home: When was this?
Ann. The Thursday after Easter.
Recorder. The Thursday in Easter-week, of
the Thursday in the next week ?
Ann. The Thursday in Easter-week ; we were
never out of company ; when he came boms
to his lodging I believe it was near ten o'clock.
Recorder". Where was your lodging, at the
Ki lie's- Arms?
Ann. At the King's- Arms.
Recorder. Good woman, did you go wilD
him to Whetstone's- park?
Ann. No, not I.
Recorder. Wert you with him at the Artil-
lery-ground ?
Ann. No, not I.
Recorder. Were you with him in Drnrj-
lane? — Ann. No, not I.
Recorder. He did not go out of your coat*
pany at all?
Ann. Yes, about ten o'clock.
Recorder. Woman, you must be v®5****?*
he came to town at twelve or one, and wight be
in thy company: But it is plain be went to *
broker's in Long-lane, and so to the -A^JJ6?"
ground at Crippiegate, for I guess it might be
so; then they went to WhetstoneVpark, «m
spent sixpence, and after that they went «W
Drury-lane,
t
1 149} STATE TRIALS, 32 Charirs II. 10&O.— Attempt to tnurder Mr. Arnold. [1150
Pris. My lord, she . don't say she was with
us all the while ; but we came to an house
where she was, and several other people oar
neighbours.
Recorder. She says you did go oot some
time : Now see whether I mistake you.
Ann. Tes; you do mistake me.
Recorder. He went out, did lie?
Ann. Yes, he went out after he came into
the city, he and some others, and then they
came back to me again in 2 or 3 hours.
Recorder. Then you were two or three
liours at dinner. Now I ask you, after they
came back, was you with him all the while?
Ann. Yes, that I was.
Recorder. Where was it?
Ann. At the Peacock.
Recorder. That is the place in Drury-lane.
Ann. No, indeed, it is in Covent-garden.
Mr. Darnal. When did he go to bed? Do
you know that, upon your oath ?
"Ann. We were in the inn between 9 and 10
o'clock, nearer 10 than 9, and I saw him sit-
'ting taking a pipe of tobacco.
Mr. Darnal. What time was-that ?
Ann. A little after 10, 1 believe.
Mr. Thompson. He sat there till he was call-
ed away to do his business. *
Elizabeth Crook.
Mr. Darnal. Elizabeth Crook, pray do you
tell my lord and the jury about what time Giles
went to bed ?
Crook. Indeed, Sir, he went to bed between
10 and 11. #
Mr: Darnal. How long was it that he came
to his lodging before that ? Can you say how
long he was in the house before he went to
bed?
Crook. I asked him if I should take away his
candle; he said he would put his candle out,
but I might lock him in and take the key, but
I did not do it.
Mr; Thompson. Did he go to bed as soon as
he came in ?
Crook. No, I think he did not.
Recorder. You made the bed, did hot you ?
Crook. I did.
Recorder. Upon your oath, what time of
night was it ?
Crook. I think it was nearer 1 1 than 10.
Recorder. Did you make the bed after he
went into it? what time did you make the bed,
upon your oath ?
Crook. I made. the bed about 10 o'clock.
Recorder. I ask- you, Do you : remember
Richmond came in to you, and asked you any
tiring about making the bed ? Do you remem-
ber he was in the chamber?
Crook. In whose chamber?
Recorder. Did Richmond come in when you
were making the bed ?
Crook. He was not there, as I knew of.
Richmond. Was not I in the chamber when
you made the bed ? *
Crook, No, I don't remember you.
I. My lord, when this maid went to
make the bed, I went into the room after her,
and had some discourse with her ; we leaned
together upon the window, and I told her 1 was
in love with her; I told her if she liked of it, I
would marry her the next morning ; I did it to
make merry, for indeed I am a married man.
Recorder. What time of night was tit ?
Richmond. About 12 o'clock.
Recorder. If you forget your other sweet-
hearts, can you remember this? Do you re-
member now he was there?
Crook. I remember he was there.
Pris. Mr. Arnold, pray do not laugh at my
witnesses, aud make may games at them ; it is
not the part of a gentleman.
Richmond. And she told me that he should
lie by himself, though the house was very ftill.
Recorder. Do you remember any such dis-
course ?
Crook. I do remember that Mr. Richmond
did come in.
King's-Counsel. What time of night was if
that he was making love to you?
Crook. I think about 10 o'clock.
King's-Counsel. Time passed merrily away
with you, then.
Richmond. It was 12 o'clock.
Crook. Why do you say so? Our house was
all quiet presently after eleven. -
Richmond. Why will you say so? Were not
we singing and roaring together ?
Recorder. Come, do not be angry,' you were
not angry when you were making love to-
gether.
Richmond. I am not angry indeed, Sir.
Edward James.
Mr. Milbum. Tell my lord what time of
night Giles came into his lodging, and where it
was?
James. It was in Easter- week he came in, and
so we were drinking at the King's-Arms in Sr.
Martin's-lane, and from dinner, and from 9
o'clock.
Recorder. How! You did not dine there, you
dined at the Peacock.
James. Yes, we dined there, but from 9
o'clock we were there till 12.
Recorder. How do you know ?
James. I was there with him.
Recorder. After 12 o'clock you say you left
him? — James. Yes.
Recorder. Where did you leave him ?
James. In the kitchen.
Recorder. Are you sure ? -
James. Yes, my lord, I am sure of it.
Recorder. I ask you, because I have an un-
happy memory : You are sure it was 12 o'clock
when you saw him in the kitchen, and here is a
maid saw him go to bed at 11.
Recorder. Have you any more? You know
the matter that was the ocasion of the djgpute
the other day : I would not by any means, that "
in a cause of this public concern, there should m
be any pretence for any to say they were sur-
prized; therefore call as many witnesses as you
please.
1151] STATE TRIALS, 32 C* sales VL \toO~T$*dsfJohs Qiies,for*n [lift
Robin Gibbon.
Mr. Milburn. What can you say, when Mr.
Gilt s came into his lodging ?
Gibb&n. It was about JO o'clock. I gave his
horse about half a peck of oats.
Mr. Milburn. Where?
Gibbon. At the King's-Arms in St. Martin V
lane.
Mr. Milburn. Do you know how long he
Staid before he went to bed ?
Gibbon. No, Sir, I cannot tell.
Mr. Thompson. He speaks honestly, this man.
"Recorder. Have you any more ?
Gila. There is another, a translator, my
counsel knows his name.
John Chadaick,
Recorder. What \% your name, Sir ?
Chadwivk. John Chadwick.
Recorder. Go on.
Chadwiek. I say, this John Giles was at my
house between 8 and 9 oVlock.
Recorder. Where is your house ?
Chadwiek. My house is
Recorder. Can you say any more to it ?
Chadwiek. No. •
Elizabeth Crook.
Recorder. What have you to say ?
Crook. Sir, 1 went *ith Mr. Giles home, and
it was between 9 and 10 o'clock, and I saw him
in his lodging, and I saw him in (he morning.
Recorder. Are you sure he went to bed when
you made it ?
Crook. It was between 10 nnd 1 1 o'clock.
Mr. Thompson. You eee Ih>w they contradict
.one another.
Reorder. Is your name James ?
James. Yes, Sir.
Recorder. You say, you are certain you left
him in the kitchen at twelve ?
James. Yes, Sir.
Recorder. But here is one that says he went
to bed by eleven.
James. O Lord, no, Sir.
Mr. Hdlt. These are your own witnesses, Mr.
Giles.
Mr. Thompson. You see how they contradict
one another.
Peter Towel.
Powel. My lord, I met some of my country-
men about an hour before night.
Mr. Thompson. What day?
Powel. About Thursday, Sir.
Mr. Thompson. What week was it in ?
Powtl. I believe in Easter week, and I heard
them say that Mr. Arnold was come to town,
and Mr. Herbert and he-was to have an hearing
the next day.
Recorder, How long was you m his cora-
Powol. I had been in my friend's company
about an hour before he came, and we staid
•till near -9 iir thereabouts, and then we parted,
esnd I never saw him aiWsvards till last Monday
was seven-night.
Roger How.
Recorder. What say you?
How. Mr. Giles was in my conaajry, sal
staid till about 9 o'clock, or thereabouts, sad
then we went away, and I saw aim ao awe ar
that night.
Recorder. Have you aoy note?
Giles. No.
Then Sir George Jefferies the Recorder pm
directions to the Jury to this effect:
Gentlemen of the Jury, the evidence ha
been very long, and I kuow you have takes
particular care to write down and tske notice
of all the circumstances that have been oatred
to you in this case : According to the beat of
my memory, I shall refresh yours with sum of
them as I apprehend to be most material in tail
cause; and if any thing happen to be omitted,
others will supply it.
In the first place I am to take notice, sad I
think I am bound to do it in discharge of aw
own conscience, and of my doty to the cotn»
that certainly, if the prisoner at las )m be
guilty of the offence of which he now staodi
indicted, the punishment that we can inflict
upon him, canftot be proportionable to the
offence : For the offence is too great for ssj
punishment that the law can inflict, for met
are dot presumed to be guilty of snob scpaa m
this ; and therefore the law has not propojtioanl
punishments to them, because it pscsuoiei as
man to be guHty of so base and barbarous tt
action as this ; and because it never coold st
presumed that any man wotlkl be guilty of •»*
offences, therefore, the Jaw has not pwM
puuishment proportionable to them, Butts*
is not your question, the question before p»0e\
Whether this man be guilty or not gpilty ? Th«
there was a popish plot, no man sureaonbevst
this time of day. Certainly there can bo saw
here under so strange an infatuation, as i*tif
least to doubt but that there was a plot, en*o-
ally when so many persons, upon fuH and day
evidence and trials) have been convicted as a-
strumeots in that bloody tragedy. But jos sjt
not to make use of these things bv "*f °[
evidence against the prisoner at the bars »
only in the general to premise some tbisgi ty i
way of introduction to their particular * *
dence ; and I mast plainly tell you (for it » «
it should be mentioned), that if aay villainy cai
come near that horrid murder of sir W»»J ;
bury Godfrey, this does; and I am soiiy *»
all my heart, that within the gowna»tJ*
city of London, or so near it, there elioaW**
such a barbarous attempt as this made aw
concealed so long. It would not bestraPf**
hear of such villainies committed in &**
Popish countries : But for the honour and enn
dit of that religion which I hope we shall ssssv
tnin with our lives, that is, the I*01*1*!^
ligion, I say in a Protestant country, •*«*
the Protestant f>ligi*n is erofeawd, I «"j
heard of such a barbarous act coe-w'JJJ
before this oae ; because eur friittifa** •*
4
1153] STATE TRIALS, 32 Oiarles II. ^&M.— Attempt to murder Mr. Arnold, [1154
religion will not allow us to commit such vil-
lainies by any dispensation whatsoever. J ustice
and troth, and righteousness, are the things that
our religion teaches us. God Almighty, and
oor blessed Saviour Jesus Christ, by whom
alone ail mankind' must be saved, have com-
manded the contrary.
Their "religion may dispense with such vil-
lainous actions ; but this I can say in vindica-
tion of ours, ours cannot do it; nay, it would
be no religion if it could.
In the next place, gentlemen, all circum-
stances of time and place, of men and things,
should be taken notice of; for dark cases roust
he made appear by circumstances: for as I
hinted before, no body calls witnesses when
they do such facts and works of darkness, the
works of the devil, that is the father of all such
works. I do not mean the devil, Mr. Arnold,
but I mean tbey are the works of the devil :
Beelzebub himself, the prince of devils, can be
only an instrument and an agent in affairs of
this nature.
Another thing that is fit to be taken notice
of by you, is this, that by way of circumstance,
whatever has been said one way or another,
relating to the Plot, relating to the business of
sir Edmund bury Godfrey, is not to be takes
notice of as evidence against the prisoner.
You shall have a faithful account of what has
been said by every witness, both for and against
him ; for right is to be done. Our jaw comes
•even to a proverb, "We must give the devil his
due ;" we must give every body right. You
know that this business was deferred, that the
prisoner at the bar might be left without all
manner of excuse ; for if innocent, all man-
kind would be glad to have him cleared ; if
guilty, every honest man would have him con-
victed. Now this being premised, the evi-
dences against the prisoner are several, and I
will, as far as I can, give you an account of
them. And
First of all, It is not doubted but Mr. Ar-
nold has behaved himself like an honest man,
amd as every honest man ought to do for the
interest of his religion ; for theae is no man can
do too much, if he does it legally, for the pre-
servation of his religion ; of that religion which
he is bound to rely upon for the salvation of
his immortal soul. Now, says Mr. Arnold1, in
the fine place he gives an honest account of
his being one night, one Thursday night in
£aster week, at the Devil-Tavern, about nine
or ten o'clock, with some friends, and he went
oat between ten and eleven o'clock, and his
own servant not being there, he did intend to
call some other servants by ; but as it hap-
pened, he went away without them, and he
Eereeived two men in campaign-cloaks follow
im into Bell-yard. He does take it upon his
oath, that about the middle of the lane, there
happened to be a candle coming out, and one
of these two, that he did so observe to dog
htm, having a campaign-cloak upon him, and
likewise a coat lined with red, he did observe
June before him j and he doth take it upon
his oath, that he does believe the prisoner at
the bar to lie that very man that so came be-
fore him ; he dues say that he had a perfect
sight of him, and he does say, that the rea-
son why he should believe him to be the
man, is, that he does remember his face,
and knew his voice. He tells you like-
wise that tliere were persons cast a cloak over
his head, ran him into Jackanapes- Lane, fell
upon him, bruised his head, and wounded him
in se/eral places ; particularly he mentions,'
that there was at the same time said by one of
them, .' Pray for the soul of captain Evans ;'
aud at the same time, which is a wonderful cir-
cumstance, ' Damn the dog, be has got ar-
' mour on, cut his throat.' He says that one
man held him up by the chin, having several
passes made at him, and he says he had some-
thing or other to preserve him; but notwith-
standing that, he was run into the side ; there
were three men, he does tell yon, and that one
overtook him in Bell- yard, and he continues to
swear it was the prisoner at the bar, according
to the best of his understanding and consci-
ence ; he says it was he, aud he discovered
him by the sight of a candle. Besides this,
which is a material circumstance, some other
persons being brought to Mr. Arnold about it,
Mr. Arnold did not tax them, but did positively
tax that person to be one of the persons. But
he tells you he suffered by passion, as I cannot
blame any man for being in a passion at such a
time. But his witnesses determine the thing,
that that is the man, find he did positively say
it, his memory being better settled than be
could at first pretend to; but however, he
gives that for another evidence, that he was not
deceived in the person. This is the substance,
as I remember, I would not do any injury to
the prisoner, by repeating any thing that has
not been said ; nor would I do any injury to
(he evidence for the king, in omitting any thing
that occurs to me. The next is one Philips,
and he tells you that the next day, being Fri-
day, about six or seven o'clock at nsght, he hap-
pened to be in company with him at an house
in Covent Garden, and having some discourse
concerning Arnold, and concerning that bloody,
base and foul attempt that was made upon
him, and was so fur from having the bowels of
an Englishman, or any thing of Christianity in
him, that he does say he broke out into ibis
extravagant expression, * Damn him, rot him,
( he had armour on : Damn him, rot him, he
' had armour on :* I speak it twice over, be-
cause Mr. Aroold tells you that the persons
during the fact was committing, said, 'Damme,
' cut his throat, he has armour on.' The next
person comes and tells you, at a certain place
in Monmouthshire, upon -the 5th of May fol-
lowing, that he went with one of. the Rich*
monds to this Giles, and had some discourse :
Says he, ' How chance you have not been as
■* good as your word, about providing me horses
' hair to make fishing lines, and you promised
< to leave it at the farrier's in Gloucester P
How chance it was not so ? He immediately
1155] STATE TRIALS, 52 Cuarles II. 1680— Trud qfJ^m GUet, fir an [1156
adds, * We were in such extraordinary haste,
* because we thought we were pursued about
* the business of Arnold.' And that he gives
as the reason why he did not stay at Glouces-
ter. If in case it had not been so, why should
he come end tell him be could not stay about
the business of the hair, because he was like to
be pursued about the business of Arnold ? The
next thing, gentlemen, is concerning one
^owel ; Powel, he tells you, that he being at
one Darcy's house, a Roman Catholic, that is
a sword cutler, that lives, I think, likewise at
Uske : And it seems the prisoner at the bar
came to him to have his sword mended. By
the way, I should have totd you that the priso-
ner at the bar, before the fact was done, did en-
quire at a place where he might have a good
rapier: that was before the fact wa< done. The
witness spake of it lust, which was the occasion
that I did not give it you in order. He asked
where he might have a good rapier ?
But now to cooie to Darcy : Darcy having
been very familiar with him, enquired, where-
fore, having had his sword so lately, he should
have U to mend already ? * Have you/ said he,
* been fighting with the devil ?' Immediately
upon that he swears the prisoner returned,
* No, but with damned Arnold.' And upon
that his wife plucked him hy the coat, and bid
him hold his tongue. I think that is the sub-
stance of wdat he swears. He says there were
by at that time the prisoner at the bar, the ap-
prentice to this Darcy, and a woman that is the
prisoner's wife.
William Richmond, he comes and gives you
a further account, that he being in his com-
pany, he tells you, they went to some place in
the city to enquire after their friends, and af-
terward* went to the Artillery to see the exer-
cise, then to Long-lane, from thence to Whet-
stoue's-park, and afterwards to Drury-lan* ;
and that about nine o'clock at night they came
to their inn, and he left Giles taking a pipe of
tobacco in the kitchen, and went up into his
chamber with some other people, drinking and
making merry ; and he does positively say,
that between eleven and twelve o'clock at
night, he saw the servant maid come up into
the room, and did see she was making the
bed ; that be seemed to be a little surprised
that any body should make a bed at that time
of night, which occasioned him to go in to her,
and ask heir the question. The answer that he
had was very material, that she said, ' There is
' a gentleman below that I must make this bed
4 for, he does not desire to have any body lie
4 with him/ That was the answer the maid
cave. There was, he says, some little talk of
love between him aud the maid, and that he
Swtively says was near upon twelve o'clock,
e says that after this, he went into his own
chamber, and continued in his own chamber till
nigh one ; and about one being pulling off his
breeches, the prisoner at the bar came and
knocked at bis chamber- door, and spake to
bim, and that was near one o'clock at night.
$ut it is plain, during that time, the prisoner
was aot in bis chamber, if you believe bim;
nor indeed is there any account given of the
prisoner from nine o'clock till near one, till he
knocked «t his door, as be was pulling off his
breeches and going to bed. As to the answer*
that are given by the witnesses of the other
side, I shall give you them wlien I descend to
give the testimonies of the other side.
To give you yet this further testtmooy, sty
they, We do not only give you this lestimooy
that he is guilty of this fact, but we do give jou,
an account of him, that he is very likely tods
such a thing ; for he is an ill man in bioself.
As on the other side, no man can give a better
testimony to himself in matters that are dark
and obscure, than the testimony of his conver-
sation, that lie is upright in Ins conversation,
and therefore cannot be thought guilty of to
base an action : So they think they give a good
evidence against bim, and that be is an ill rasa
in himself; and therefore because he is an ill
man, he may be guilty of sneb a thing.
Aud to prove that, they call up these wit-
nesses.
First of all, one Bridges comes and gives yea
an account, that discoursing with him concern-
ing the papists, he damned the Plot, and said
that all were rascals that were not papists; sad
if in case that the lords that were in the Tower
should happen to suffer, it would be a bloody
day, and it would make a bloodier work is
England than ever was known: Which shew
he is a bloody ill man. The prisoner asked
him, If he were not a papist ? It is likely bt
was a papist before, or he would not hare traa>
ed him so. And this is one circumstance to
prove that be is an ill man, that be hath gives
out such and such expressions.
There is another, one Reynolds, who comes
and gives you an' account of his having so**
discourse with him afterwards- about this hes-
ness of Mr: Arnold, that the piisoner talked
slightly of it, and said that he might do it aiov
self.
This, gentlemeu, I take in general to be the
substance of what has been offered for the k*s>
If there be anyg thing else that does not occur
to my memory," if it doth to yours, you will da
well to consider of it.
Say the counsel for the defendant, and that
every maa of the Long Robe ought to say, thai
, if the person, which is the prisoner at the btr,
were guilty of such a barbarous thing as this, *j
man would ofter to open his mouth. Art
therefore they offer evidence for their client »
they are instructed to offer to you, and yea •*
to try whether their client be guilty.
Say they, You first call one Pawns togi«
an account ; and as to what Philips aays show
tl»e business in Coven t- Garden, about ojwsb
him, and rot him, they bring one that was «**•
all the time, and aays he, I was by all thews**
and I heard no such words. So for wt8 M
from making any particular reflection* *P*
Mr. Arnold, that he cried it wasa verf bornM*
a very barbarous thing. Nay;, says he, to*"
credit to this testimony of hi, I attar"*1*
1157] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charlbs II. 1680.— Attempt to murder Mr. Arnold. [1158
keep company with them that use such words, \
at damn him, and rot him, as he says.
Tfce next witness is Mr. Herbert Jones ; he
comes and tells you, I went with him from Lon-
don, I went with him to Gloucester, I staid at
ao inn ceiled the Old-Bear, and staid and dined
with him there. I went after that to the New-
Bear, we went thither and drank cyder toge-
ther ; and this was very poblic : For several
persons that lived in the town, came to us and
enquired after the badness of Arnold ; and if
in case we had been under any such jealousy as
chat was, we would not have staid so long, ns,
aays be, we did. Say they on the other side,
We do not say that you did not stay in Glouces-
ter; but, say they, by way of objection against
the prisoner at the bar, we say that you yourself,
on the 5th or May, said, in answer to the per-
son that came to ask you, Why you had not
brought the hair, that he might go a fishing ?
You said, We durst not stay for fear of pursuit
upon the account of Mr. Arnold. This you
yourself said, and by saying so, you hare con-
tracted that guilt in point of circumstance,
which is objected by us against you. This is
the answer given to that that Mr. Jones says.
The neit person that comes to give yoa an
aecount is one John Jones, who is the appren-
tice : Says he, you bring a witness against me
that I said such a thing at Uske, at Darcy's the
sword-cutler's, and you say the apprentice was
by: And he gives you this evidence: Says he,
I was by at such a time as the man speaks of,
and being by at that time, I do very well re-
member, that there was a discourse concerning
seme great conflict that Mr. Gjles had been in,
mod that Giles's wife was by, and so was the
other person that gave the evidence, that such
m discourse there was of lighting with the devil ;
but now he inverts the saying of the other man,
and says that he should say, He never met with
Arnold the devil. The one answers, when the
thing was asked him, Whether be had been
lighting with the devil ? No, not with the devil,
but with Arnold; the other swears, He did not
meet with the devil Arnold. He tells you like-
wise, his wife did not pull him by the clothes,
and bid him hold his tongue.
The next witness is Powel ; and he gives you
an account that he came with him to town : He
'gives you an account how he staid with him,
and came along with him till 9 o'clock at night;
'for he does not pretend to give you an account
after nine.
Then 'comes Crook : And Crook, that is the
maid servant, she says, I cannot positively tell
you when he came in, but will positively say,
that I made his bed about 10, and before 111
'asked him about his candle ; he bid me lock
"the door, and he would put out the candle him-
self, and she went away and left the candle.
And that is very material ; for the time this
fact was. committed was between 10 and 11;
this is what the maid says : Now there is this
answer to what she swears. She first of all for-
got that ever Richmond, that speaks concern-
ing the breeches and other circumstances, that
ever he was there at all ; but you hear he has
refreshed her memory with a love story, that he '
was in the room, aud she does agree in these
very circumstances he speaks of; so that that
gives credit to the testimony of Richmond, and
puts a disparagement upon her testimony, since
she could be so exceeding forgetful, as not to
remember such a circumstance.
The next is an old woman: And she swears
point blank she was with him most part of the
day ; and that she was with him at dinner^ and
was with him till nine of the clock at night, and
then went to bed. And though she seemed to
differ and blunder in some part of her testi-
mony, because she knew nothing of his going
into Long- Lane, and other places; however,
she gives an account about the time of nine
o'clock, that she left him iu the kitchen, and
then she went to bed.
The next witness is James: And James doth
positively swear, that be was drinking with him
in the kitchen till past twelve o'clock at night ;
but that cannot be true, if the wench that made
the bed swear true ; for she swears she mode
the bed before ten, and be went to bed before
eleven ; so that he could not be abed before
eleven, if he swears true ; and he could not be
in the kitchen at twelve o'clock, if she swears
true.
Gentlemen, Richmond's roan he gives yoa
no farther an account ' than what runs square
to his master's testimony ; that he left him at
nine o'clock at night, and he beard him call at
his master's chamber about twelve, and so they
ponctaliy agree. But he gives no manner of
account where he was between nine and twelve,
between which honrs this fact was done.
Next, gentlemen, there have been some more
witnesses called for the prisoner at the bar, who
gave you an account where be was before such
time as he came to his lodging. Now it is not
denied on either side, but that he might be till
within night at that house they speak of; but
the account that is desired to be given of this
matter, is to know where he was between nine
o'clock and twelve, when this fact was com-
mitted.
These gentlemen, according as it occurs to me
are the substantial parts of evidence, both on
the one side and the other. The matter there-
fore resolves it within this narrow compass : If
upon what you have heard from Mr. Arnold,
attended with the rest of the circumstances that
you have heard sworn by the witnesses, you da
believe the prisoner at the bar is guilty ; for he
might be at his lodging at nine o'clock, and he
might t>e at his lodgwig at twelve or one, and
he might do this fnct. For it is certain it was
not a sudden matter, for it was a thing done
preparedly ; and therefore you must not ex*
pectthat men that are guilty of such barbarous
designs as this, will lay their designs open. To
be sure, whoever it was did this fact upon
Mr. Arnold, they would do it so as to make
themselves appear as innocent as could be.
It is not a matter to be relied on, that be-
cause this man was innocent -in St. MartiuV
1159]
STATE TRIALS, 32 CiiAnuu II. HJ80.— Trial qfJokn Gik*.
[ll€tf
lane, therefore he did not do this thing in Bell-
jar d.
There is another circumstance against the
prisoner at the bar ; ibat he should imagine,
not withstanding all this, that Mr. Arnold had
wounded himself. But when he found that that
was not very probable, that a man could wound
himself so, by reason of several places that he
received his wounds in ; he would have it, that
though he did not do it himself, jet some of
his frieuds might. Indeed if he be guilty, some
«f his relations migfct do it, but certainly he
was no friend that did it. It is against nature
for any man to believe that any person should
put himself to so much trouble ; if he had a
mind to dispatch himself, he might have done
it with much more ease, and not have put him-
self to that trouble ; for men, when they have a
mind to do the business, they do not use to
take such a deal of pains to stab themselves
here and there.
Thus, gentlemen, the evidence being very
long, and the circumstances very many, things
■nay occur to you that do not at present to me.
Tet I must tell you again, in a matter of pub-
Tic example, the proof ought to be vory great,
to convict a man of such an offence ; but you
must not expect it should be so clear, as in a
matter of right between man and man, and of
things that are done in the face of the sun. It
was done in the dark : The devil that set them
a-work, docs fill them with cunning enough to
keep this attempt as concealed as may bei
And therefore circumstances of this nature
must be wonderfully considered; an account of
which Mr. Arnold himself gives you, and he
does believe in his conscience the prisoner at
the bar to be the man.
The Jury withdrew, and having debated to-
gether about half an hour, returned, and brought
the prisoner in Guilty.
Which done the court adjourned till the Sa-
turday following, the 17th of July.
At which time the court being sat, John
Giles was brought to the bar ; to whom the.
'Right worshipful sir George Jefferies delivered
himself to this effect;
Recorder, Vou the prisoner at the bar, you
have been indicted for a very vile offence ; an
offence in its nature that deserves a greater pu-
nishment than the law can inflict upon any
such offences. There is a jury has convicted
you of this crime, against whom, had you had
•ny objection, you might have made your chal-
lenge. And now you stand convicted here> it
is only the duty of tire court to pronounce^ that
judgment against you, which tbey think may
lie reasonable to inflict upon such an offender.
For 1 must needs say, it was one of (he basest
and most barbarous actions that mankind could
possibly be guilty of: an action of so much filth
Itnd baseness, that the law could not foresee any
man could be guilty of, and therefore .hath not
made provision for a punishment proportion-
' able to it. But inasmuch as we understand by
Mr. Arnold you have a charge of children,
therefore the court takes some consideration r
Not that they think to extend any mercy to yoev
for your own sake, but a regard they think they
are bound to have for those that have not of-
fended. But we ought to have care to let the
world know, we do not intend only a punish-
roent to the offender, but by that to terrify all
other people from being guilty of such extraor-
dinary villainies. And because tbey will have
regard to your posterity, therefore they do not
think fit to put so great a fine upon you as this
fact does deserve. But on the other side, they
have thought fit you should be made an example
of and that you should suffer as great a corporal*
punishment as the law will allow. And there-
fore in the name o( the court I do proeouace
this to be your sentence : * That you be put inv
' the pillory towards Lincoln's r I mi- fields, a*
* near the place where this barbarous fact was
' committed. as may be : And there you axe to
1 stand from the hour of twelve till one, one day,
* at noon day. . And on another day, from tbe
* hour of twelve to one, over-against G rays-Inn.
' in Holborn. And another day, between tbe
' same hours just by the May-pole in the Strand.
' These three several days you are to stand in
' the pillory, and to have a paper put upon yoor
' hat whereby it shall be signified the offence
' of which you stand convicted. And next, to
' deter all others from committing the like, tbe
' court does ' think fit likewise to award, that
' you should pay to the king the sum ofSOOL
' and that you be committed in execution, till
' such time as vou pay that money. And be*
' cause it is both to be a punishment to yo>u,and
' a terror to all other such villains, vou* are te
' find sureties lor your good behaviour during
Mife.'
Sentence being pronounced, and the prisoner
removed from the bar, Richard Caxenaugh was
brought to the bar, and prayed to be dischar-
ged; But was by Mr. Arnold charged with
threatning one Philip Staneright, one of tbe
king's witnesses: For which reason, and for
thataUoanew evidence was come in against
the said Cavenaugh, with some farther charge
relating to Mr. Arnold's business, tlie court
thought fit; for want of bail, to continue him a
prisoner.
Then Mr. Herbert appeared, and prayed to
be discharged from his recognizance to appear
at the Old- Bailey : But being accused by a wo-
man for calling her Whore, Jade, and very ill
names, and holding up his staff at her, and threat-
ening to beat her for being a wituess against
his friend Giles ; as also for taking away her
horse as she was going to the mill; and tbe
reason was, because she was to be a witness in
London against Giles. But she being a mar-
ried woman and none appearing that would be
bound to prosecute him for it, he was not
bound over to answer it, till another complaint
came in against him, which was immediately
made by Mr. Ballard, and another gentleman ;
who charged Mr. Herbert, that in Whitsun
week last upon a discourse for chasing kingbts
1161] STATE TRIALS, 52 C». II. 1680.— Trial tfT. Thwing and M. Presides. [Mgf
of the shire for Monmouth, and the saying of
one in the company, that it was thought Mr.
Arnold would stand lor it ; Mr. Herbert should
make answer, I will circumcise the other side,
of his cheek first ; or, he must have the other
side of his cheek circumcised first. Upon which
the court ordered he should not be discharged,
but remain bound upon the former recogni-
zance to appear there next sessions. And the
Recorder gave him several sharp reprehensions
for his malicious and unmanly words and pro-
ceedings : this being the second of the king's
witnesses, and a woman that he had barba-
rously treated ; still passionately giving the
reason that they were witnesses against his
friend John Giles, as it was proved on oath be-
fore the court by several witnesses.
Then sir Thomas Allen acquainted the court
that a gentleman had informed him the day be-
fore, that Mr. Herbert told him, that Mr. Ar-
nold wounded himself and cut his own throat ;
which the court looked upon as an high effect
•f a malicious ingratitude ; Mr. Arnold hav-
w
ing besought his majesty, when Mr. Herbert was
in Newgate to have his release. Mr. Arnold
replied, that Mr. Herbert had been more un-
grateful to his majesty, who had graciously par-
doned him greater offences, and lately ; for he
had spoken worse of his majesty's person and
government, than he had done of him, as it had
been proved nefore bis majesty, and of which
he believed his majesty was well satisfied. The
Court told Mr. Herbert, he was a shame to all
Englishmen ; and bound him by recognizance
to appearand answer this offence at the King's*
Bench bar the first day of the uext term.*
* ' In obedience to an Order shewed to me,
' made by the right honourable the Lords spi-
' ritual and temporal in parliament assembled,
* I have perused these papers ; and according
* to the best of my remembrance, upon this dis-
* tance of time, they do contain the substance
' of what passed at the Trial of Giles.
* Geo. Jeffbiys.'
%GQ. The Trial of Thomas Thwing and Mary Pressicks, at Yori
Assizes, for High Treason :* 32 Charles II. a.d. 1680.
Clerk of Assise. THOMAS Thwing, late of
Heworth, in the county of York, clerk, and
Mary Pressicks, wife of Thomas Pressicks,
late of the parish of Berwick in Elmetr, gent.
stand indicted; for that they, as false traitors
against the most illustrious and most excellent
prince, king Charles the second, that now is,
their natural lord ; God before their -eyes not
Laving, nor their due allegiance weighing, but
by the instigation of the devil being seduced
and moved, the cordial love, and true and na-
tural obedience| which true and faithful sub-
jects of our said sovereign lord the king to-
wards his said majesty ought to bear, altogether
withdrawing ; and imagining, and with all their
strengths, intending the peace and common
tranquillity of this kingdom of England to dis-
turb, and his said majesty that now is to death
and final destruction to bring and put, and the
true worship of God in this Kingdom of Eng-
land established and used, to alter to the
superstition of the church of Rome, and war
against his said majesty in this kingdom of
England to move and raise, and the govern-
ment of this kingdom of England to subvert;
the 30th day of May, in the 31st year of his
majesty's reign that now is, at the parish of
Berwick in Elmett aforesaid, m the county
aforesaid, with divers other false traitors to the
.jurors unknown, did traiterously compass, ima-
gine and intend, and every of them did com-
pass, imagine and intend the death and final
^destruction of his said majesty, and the ancient
.government of this realm of England to change,
* See the Trial of sir Thomas Gascoigne,
«nfe/P-959.
alter, and utterly subvert, and his said majesty
of the crown and rule of this kingdom to de-
pose and wholly to deprive, and the true Pro-
testant religion to extirpate: And to effect
and accomplish their said wicked treasons,
and traiterous imaginations and purposes afore
said, the said Thomas Thwing and Mary Pres-
sicks, and other false traitors to the jurors un-
known, the said SOth day of May, in the 31st
year abovesaid, with force and arms at the pa-
rish of Barwick in Elmett aforesaid, advisedly,
devilUhly, maliciously, and traiterously did
assemble and gather themselves together,
and then and there did devilishly, advi-
sedly, maliciously, subtilly, and traiterously
consult and agree, and every of them did then
and there traiterously consult and agree to
bring to death and final destruction our said
sovereign lord the king, and to depose and de-
prive him of his crown and rule aforesaid, and
the religion of the church of Rome into this
kingdom to introduce and establish : and the
sooner to fulfill and effect the said wicked
treasons and traiterous imaginations and pur-
poses aforesaid, the said Thomas Thwing and
Mary Pressicks, and other false traitors to the
jurors unknown, did then and there pay and
expend, and every of them did then and there
pay and expend divers sums of money of divers
other traitors to the jurors unknown, to carry
on the treasons aforesaid ; and then and there
the said Thomas Thwing and Mary Pressicks
did subscribe, and either of them did sub-
scribe a certain note in writing for the payment
of divers sums of money for making a contri-
bution for completing their traiterous purposes
aforesaid, against the duty of their allegiance,
3
end against the king's peace, his crown and
dignity, and also against the statute in that
case made and provided. .
- To this indictment hating pleaded Not
Guilty, and put themselves upon their country
for trial,
tJpon the 99th of July, sir Thomas Da*
niel, high sheriff of the county, having returned
many gentlemen for jurors ; the Trial proceed-
ed thus : After the Jury called, Thomas Timing
and Mary Pressicks being brought to the
bar,
- Clerk of Assize. 'Thomas Timing, hold op
thy hand. Mary Pressicks, bold up thy hand.
Which being done,
« CI. of Anise. This understand ye, that these
gentlemen that are now to be sworn, are re-
turned by the sheriff of this county, to pass be-
tween* our sovereign lord the king and you for
your lives : therefore if you will challenge any
of them, you are to challenge them as they
come to be sworn, and before they be sworn.
N CI. of Assize, Sir David Fowles, bart.
Thwing. I challenge him.
And so as they were called challenged these
25 gentlemen following, viz. John Eastoft,
William Bethell, Townes Drifeild, Will. Os-
baldeston, esquires ; Martn, Trueman, Robert
Bell, Thomas Fletcher, Thomas Wood, Thomas
Faireside, Roger Fret well, -Simon Warreuer,
Edward Carvil, John Coates, Hugh Savil,
Nivian Collins, Thomas Green. Natb. Elliot-
son, Nathan rs Harrison, John Tomliosoa,
Thomas Riecaby, John Ullithome, Thomas
Hincks, William Mastin, George Ellis, Thomas
Whaley, Gentlemen.
In the calling of the Jury, afteraeveral chal-
lenges made and some of the Jtry sworn,
Tbwing spoke thus :
• Tkming. My lord, I shall willingly stand to
the other jury *
Just. Dolben. What jury ?
* Thwing. My lady Tempest'* jury*
Just. Dolben. Oh, four servant ; you either
are very foolish, or take ma to be so.
The Jury being sworn.
CI. of Assise. Oyer, count these. Sir George
Cook, bart. Tbo. Worsley, Wm. Caley, Roger
Lee, John Dtion, George Wray, Hen. Pinck-
ney, John Black stone, Will. Hnrdcastle, Ni-
cholas Stone, Geo. Westorby, Charles Tucker,
Gentlemen.
Cryer. Twelve good men and true, stand
together and hear your evidence.
Ci of Assize. Thomas Timing, hold up thy
band, (which he did) Mary Pressick?, bold up
thy hand, (which she did). Gentlemen, you
ef the jury that are sworn, look upon the pri-
soners, and hearken to their charge : Yuu shall
understand that they stand indicted by the
•This lady Tempest was probably the daugh-
ter of sir Thomas Gascoigne. SeeJ>is Case,
•ate, p. 959. No report of her Trial has been
foaad.
166U— TWof o/ Tho. Tinting, md [
names of Thomas Thwing, &c. and Mary
sicks, &c. Pront in the indictment. Upon
this indictment they have been arraigned, and
thereunto pleaded Not Guilty ; and for their
trial have put themselves upon the country,
which country you are, &c.
Then Proclamation was made for evidence,
and the indictment being opened, and the
treasons therein aggravated by the king'*
council ; Mr. Baron Atkyns came into toe*
court to assist in the Trial.
The Witnesses were called ; Rote/* Botrm
was first sworn*
Bolron. My lord, in 1674, I came to live
with sir Thomas Gascoigne, and was steward
of his coal pits ; and in 1675 I turned papist ;
and about January, 1676, Mr. Thwing, Father
Rushtoa, and several others came to my boos*
at Shippon, and did there examine me bow I
stood affected to the Roman Catholic refigioo,
and whether I was resolved to venture my
life and estate in it, if there were any occasion;
to which I agreed, and was resolved to obey my
ghostly father in all things.
Mr. Justice Dolben taking notice of a gentle-
man near the prisoners, demanded, What is
that gentleman f We are all beset ; be was one
of the jury yesterday. — He being removed,
Bolron proceeded.
Bob**. Father Roshton my confessor gave
me the Oath of Secrecy;* end in 1677, sir T.
Gascoigne, sir Miles Stapleton, Mr. Thwing
the prisoner, and several other persons, met at
Barnbow-ball, sir T. Gascoicne's house; and
there they agreed, That in bopes the plot of
killing the king would take effect, they weald
erect a nunnery at Dolebank; but the real in-
tention was to have it at Heworth, within a
mile of York, after the king was killed ; and te
avoid suspicion, my lady Tempest told them she
would let them have Broughtoo for the present.
It was there agreed, that the king should be
killed if And Mr. Thwing said, that if they
missed this opportunity, they should never have
the like again, and the effecting of it would be
very beneficial to the church Of Rome.
Mr. Baron Atkyns* Repeat it in the same
words.
Bolron. He said, if we miss this opportunity
of kilting the king, we shall never have the hke
again ; and Mr. Thwing was to be the confessor
of the nunnery for the present.
Baron Atkyns. Where were these words
spoken ?
Bolron. In the old dining-room.
Justice Dolben. Who were present?
Bolron. Sir Miles Stapleton, sir T. "
\
* See the Trial of sir Thomas Gascoigne,
ante, p. 969.
t Note, That upon sir T. Gascoigne's Trial
it appeared in his Almanack, that be had made
this Memorial there with his own band (itx.)
" The 15th of April 1676, memerand. acquaint
Mr. T. Thwing with the whole design."
any My Tempest, Mi. Tbwiag, Mr. Rushton,
and some others.
Justice Dolben. Was it agreed that the king
should be killed ?
Bolron, It was, my lord.
Baron Atkynt. Consider seriously, you speak
in the pceseace of God, and of a great assem-
bly ; and that a person's life is at stake : Tell
it again, what were the words.
Bolron. It was agreed that the king should
be killed, aad that it was for the good of the
catholic religion ; and I paid 10/. to Mr. Rush*
ton in Mr. Thwing's presence, towards killing
the king, aad saw a list in Mr. Rushton's and
Mr. Thwing's hands, of the names of several
that engaged for promoting the Roman Catho-
lic religion; which was to be by killing the
king. *
Baron At kwu* Was it a List of those that
were to kill the king?
Bolron. The Lint I saw was of money raised
to kill the king.
Baron Atkyns. What was the title of that
List? •
Bolron. A list of the Names of the Actors
and Contributors, engaged in the design of pro*
annting the Roman Catholic religion, and also
of establishing a Nunnery; which was raising
money for the killing of the king. And besides
the 10/. I paid towards it, I paid 67. to have my
soul prayed for. Thwing told me afterwards
stray house, that in Yorkshire, Lancashire,
and Derbyshire, 30,000/. was raised for the
hilling of the king; and that the list was sent
beyond sea.
Justice Dolben. What can you say against
the woman?
Bolron. Mrs. Pressicks told me, That in
t #78, presently after the plot was discovered,
she being in London, did hear a woman cry
atfter her, Scop the Papist, Stop the Plotter ;
but she got away, and afterwards durst not ap-
pear pvblictj in Lnodon. I bad discourse with
ier at my house about the Plot; and she told
me, That Father Harcourt was her confessor,
and first engaged her in it; and that Pickering
told her, that he was to have killed the king,
and she said she was sorry she did not do it;
and that Oates and Redinw were two rogues,
and the Plot had not been discovered but for
ahem, who were the cause of so much mischief.
And she farther told me, that the gon where-
with he was to have killed the king, was found
with Pickering, and she -did believe that was
the cause of his losing his life : And she said,
The king was an ass aad not fit to govern; that
what money the parliament gave ham be spent
span whores aad concubines.
Justice Dolben. Well, is this all yoa have
najMwn nerr
. .JuWroa. Yea, any lord.
Justice Dolben. He batfe dene; yoa may
erasa-examke him, if yon will.
Thwing. Who was at your house when I was
these?
Bolron. Father Rushtoo.
laving. How often was I there?
580.— J&ry Prctiteh, Jkr Treason. [1100
Bolron, Several times, I know not how
often.
Thwing. When was it you accused me first
of the plot? •
Bolron. When I went to the council X ac*
cused him.
Thming. He did not accuse me of the plot
in several months.
Sir Too. Stringer. Come, Mr. Mowbray, tell
your knowledge«
Mr. Mowbray was sworn.
Mr. Mowbray. My lord, what I have to say
is only against Mr. Thwing. At an assembly
of divers priests at Barnbow-hall, amongst the
rest there were Father Rushtoo aad Mr.
Thwing ; and there they determined to kill tha
king.
Baron Atkynt. When was this?
Mowbray. This was near Michaelmas 1676*
and tliey declared it was not only, lawful, but
meritorious to do it: They also declared, Thai
London and York were to be fired; and tbat
force was to be made use of against the king}
and all other heretics that should oppose the
advancement of their religion : And Mr*
Thwing and ilushton declared, the king was an
heretic, and excommunicated by the Pope, and
had not kept his promise with the Jesuits to
bring in their religion, and therefore deserved
to be killed, and ic was not only lawful but me-
ritorious so to do.
Mr. Btlwood, of cooncil for the king. Wat
there not a list ? .
Mowbray. Yes, a list of those, engaged in
the design of killing the king, and of promoting
the catholic religion : And it was declared the
king should be killed, because lie had not kept
his promise made to the Jesuits when he was
beyond sea.
Justice Dolben. Did the prisoner dedans it I
MowBray. Mr. Thwing. declared it, aad
Rnsbton aad be managed it.
Thwing. Who. was there?
Mowbray. It was at Father Rushton's cham-
ber tbat 1 saw you, and there was another
Thwing there, and also Addison a priest.
Thwing. I went once or twice a year to tit
Thomas Gascoigne's, and thought it my doty to
wait on him ; and .that I might without otfence
do it, he being my uncle.
Just. Dolben. No, the offence is Plotting.
Sir T. Stringer. Mr. Thwing, do yon know
Rushton?
Thwing. Yes ; bat I had no great acquaint*
ance with him.
Sir T. Stringer. Mr. Mowbray, how came
yen to be intrusted in so great a business?
Mowbray. I assisted Father Rushton at the
altar at mass ; and so eaaae into great favour
with him, and was permitted to be in his chanv
her when the priests were in private with him.
Sir T. Stringer. Mr. Mowbray, did yoa talc*
an oath of secrecy ?
Mowbray. Yes, I took it from Father Rushton.
Thwing. How long since did yoa change
your religion \
1 167] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles H. 1 0SO.— Trial <tf Tho. Thwing, and [116S
Mowbray. Presently after the Plot broke
out.
Thwing. Who were you examined before first
of all ? •
Move bray. Before Mr. Lowther, and Mr.
Tindal.
Just. Dolben. Did you ' at the first accuse
bini ?
Mowbray. I only charged sir T. Gascoigne,
esq. Gascoigne, my lady Tempest, sir Miles
Stapleton, and Father Rushton in my first ; and
in my second deposition I nccused Mr. Thving,
and that was before justice Ware up.
Bar. Atkyns. Did Thwing abscond at Che
first?
Mowbray. He was apprehended at the same
time sir Thomas Gascoigne was apprehended,
and at his house.
Just. Dolben. Well, what say you to Mary
Pressicks ?
Mowbray. My lord, I have nothing to say
against her.
Just. Dolben*. Mr. Thwing, you have heard
the evidence, what do you say for yourself?
Thwing. J shall produce witnesses I was
never with him at Barmbow: First, I shall
•hew he never mentioned me when he first men-
tioned the Plot ; and he never said any thing
against me, when he accused sir Thomas Gas-
coigne before Mr. Lowther and Mr. Tindal.
But Mr. Bonithen, of Counsel for the king,
offering other witnesses for the king against
Mrs. Pressicks, they were called, viz. Mrs.
Bolron sen. Mrs. Bolron jun. and John
Hutchinson.
Mrs. Bolron sen. sworn.
Just. Dolben. What do you know of Pres-
sicks, the prisoner at the bar?
Mrs. Bolron sen. My lord, she said she
knew of the Plor, and that Pickering was to
have killed the king.
Mr, Bonithen. Do you mean shoot the king ?
Mrs. Bolron sen. Yes, 1 do.
Just. Dolben. Where did she tell you this ?
Mrs. Bolron seo. At Shippon, my lord.
Just. Dolben. At his house? [pointing to
Mr. Bolron.]
< Mrs. Bolron sen. Yes, and she said that she
was very sorry that Pickering did not do it, and
that he had done it if it had not been for Gates,
jaud Bedloc.
Just. Dolben. Was this the very same time
that Mr. Bolron speaks of?
Mrs. Bolron sen. Yes, my lord ; and she said
there would never be quiet in England until the
Roman Catholics had got the upper hand, and
there was not a protestant left in England :
And she said, The king spent his money
amongst bis concubines, and his other women,
to that be was not worthy to be king, and she
hoped an army of catholics would be raised to
set up popery.
Just. Dolben. That is, indeed, the principle of
the papists, and according to it, within 40 years
past tber murdered 300,000 innocent protes-
tants in Ireland, Did she say it often I
Mrs. Bolron sen. Yes, several times, mora)
than once or twice.
Mrs. Bolron jun. was then sworn and examined.
Mrs. Bolron jun. I heard her say, There was
a conspiracy carrying on about altering the go-
vernment, and establishing the Roman Catholic
religion.
Jusr. Dolben. Where heard you this ?
Mrs. Bolron jan. In my husband's house.
Bar. Atkyns. And what were her hopes in
the conspiracy ?
Mrs. Bolron jun. My lord, I cannot tell.
Mrs. Pressicks. I ask Mr. Bolron when we
had this discourse ?
Mr. Bolron. At several times; about Can-
dlemas 1678, and at Easter and Whitsuntide,
and several times after the Plot was discovered,
we discoursed it several times at the porch at
my house.
Jusr. Dolben. Who was present ?
Mr. Bolron. My grandmother.
Just. Dolben. Where was it, old woman, that
you heard ftiese words ?
Mrs. Bolron sen. At Shippon, in the Hall-
parch, my lord.
Mrs. Pressicks. Had we ary discourse
about *ir Thomas ?
Mrs. Bolron sen. None.
John Hutchinson was then sworn.'
Just. Dolben. Do you know any thing con-
cerning Mrs. Pressicks?
Hutchinson. May it please you. my lord, I
came to Mr. Bolron's bouse, and Mrs. Pres-
sicks asked me what news in our country, and
what became of the papists? I told her soma
had given bond, and some were gone to prison;
Then she said, We shall never be at peaoa
until we are all of the Roman Catholic religion;
for the king is an heretic, and spends mora
money upon his whores than upon his queen,
and we shall never be at quiet until the duko
of York is king.
Just. Dolben, What say, you to this? Yo*
have seen him ?
Mrs. Pressicks. I never saw bin bat twice
there.
Just. Dolben. Where was she when she said
this?
Hutchinson. She first talked with me in the
kitchen, and at the ball door, as she was just go*
ing into the parlour: she told me, that we should
never be at quiet until the duke of York was
made king.
- Just. Dolben. Mr. Bolron, when came she to
your house ?
Bolron. She came to our house about Christ*
mas, and staid about six months there.
Just. Dolben. Six months in year house!
Then you are well enough acquainted with her?
Bolron. Yes, my lord. "
Just. Dolben. Did you charge Mr. Thwing
before the justice ?
Bolron. My lord, I gave justice Tindal only
a short note, that sir T. Gascoigne promised
me 1,000/. to kill the king: But what I had to
1 160J STATE TBIAIA 32 Charles II. l6S0.—Mary Prcmcks,ffr Treason. [1170
»ay against Thwing, I .gave to the king and
council.
Thwing. My lord, this is malice to sir T.
Gascojgne's family, to which X am related, it is
out of revenge.
Just. Dolben, It was a family-quarrel then ?
Thwing, Yes, my lord, this I can prove by
jeveral witnesses.
Just. Dolben, Call your witnesses then.
Thwing. Nathaniel Wilson.
Just. Dolben, Mr. Babington, why don't you
Appear? We know well enough th?t you are
solicitor in the cause; call your witnesses.
Then 'Nathaniel Wilton was examiued.
Just. Dolben, Come, what, is it you have to
say?
Wilton. J went to Bolron to look on a cow
that he iiad gifted for his cousin Bargues, and
desired to have the cow away, but he would not
let me have her without paying for her gift ;
so I tendered him his mouey, and we went to
talk in the house, and Bolron sent for a groat's
.worth' of ale, and asked me if I could tell any
thing or father Rushton, and I told him I could
not; andhebidmeke*pais,secrets,andhe would
give me more than I could addle, (that is, cam)
in seven years : And he said, unless he could
-abed the blood of some of them, he should get
nothing.
Ju6t. Dolben, When was this ?
Wilson. This was about next Michaelmas a
twelve- month.
Just. Dolben. This is quite other than you
told yesterday.
J Wilson was a witness the day before for the
y Tempest.]
~ Wilson. I bad not time.
Tkming. I desire to know, whether Bolron
named me to Mr. Lowther as a plotter.
Then Mr. Lomther was called.
Mr. Lomther. I do not remember that Mr.
Bolron named Mr. Thwing to nie when he was
before me.
Just. Dolben. When did he come .to make
the discovery to you ? Give an account of it ?
Lomther, I think it was the, 24th or 25th of
June 1679, that he came to me ; and he told
me be had some secrets to impart to me : And
he began to tell me a story of the Jesuits and
priests, what they designed against the govern-
ment, because the king did not keep his word
with them when he was beyond sea : And then
J called for my man aud a bible kto take his ex-
miuation, and said Fray, friend, be very careful
•what you do, for here your own concern is at
stake, as well as the lives and fortunes of the
.geutlemen you speak agtinst; and upon that
he began to be very fearful and timorous, and
looked pale: Whereupon I asked him, what
that fear was for ? It is, said he, because I have
concealed it so long ; and if that were upon
you, it may be you. would be as fearful as I am.
Then I was going to take bis information, and
he said, I have done it before to Mr. Tindai.
Why came you to me, then? said I. He said,
TOL. YU.
Mr. Tindnl desired It; Well, said I, Mr. Tin-
dai and I are to meet to-morrow, and we will
do it jointly.
Just. Dolben, Did he say he told you all be
knew ?
Ijozcther, He did rot name Thwing, but said
he would recollect more, aud would go to Lon-
don and give it in to the king and council -. And
then I said, why may nut we take it here as well
as trouble them at London ?
Just. Dolben. It may be, he thought it better
to do it there.
Mrs. Prcssicks. He did not accuse me before
Mr. Lowther.
Bolron. Yes, ray lord, I did, and had a war*
rant to take her.
Lowther. She was taken the same day sir
T. Gascoigne was taken.
Just. Dolben. We will be just between you:
Then the prisoners called Obadiah Moor,
Just. Dolben, Come, tell your knowledge in
this business.
Moor, I say, that Mr. Bolron said, that sir
T. Gascoigne was not concerned in the Plot,
nor none of his family ; and .that he believed
there was no Plot.
Just. Dolben, When was this ?
M^or. This was about Candlemas was twelve
months. v
Just. Dolben, He was then a papist : But did
he not tell you otherwise afterwards?
Moor, In August after he told me he had
but equivocated with me in what he said be-
fore, aud that there was a real Plot ; and if he
had sworn a thousand lies, he could have been
forgiven them.
Then Stephen Thomp$on wassailed and ex-
miaed.
Thompson. Mr. Bolron was servant to sir T.
Gascoigne, and being in his debt, sir Thomas
did arrest him, and he agreed with sir Thomas
to give him 60/. and got me to be bound with
him : And when the Plot came out, I thought
Bolron being his servant, might know whether
sir Thomas had any hand in it; and if so, that
we were in no danger of being sued ; and I en-
quired of Bolron, and he said, * Sir Thomas
was as sinless of it as the child that was un-
born.' And on Holy Thursday I went to him,
and got him out on the backside to sir Tho-
mas's,and all along he told me, if he sued him he
would do him a greater mischief: And 1 plead-*
ed earnestly with $?ir Thomas not to sue the
bond, and he said he would have his money;
but would stay a fortnight; and I prevailed
with him to give three weeks time, that Bolron
might go to sell his house at Newcastle, and in
that time he went to London and accused him
of treason : And as to Mrs. Pressicks, I asked
his grandmother what she could say against her,
and she said, Alas, alas, I can sny nothing to
it, but Bolron said she must say so and so.
Just. Dolben, "What mean yoo, friend, by to
and so.
Thcmptont It was about sir £dmu&4burj
4 F
1171] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaklbs II. 1680.— Trial qf Tho. Tktmg, and [117*
Godfrey, and that the king was an whoremas-
ter, and such things.
Then Zachary 1'horpe was called and examined.
Thorpe. I met with Mr. Bolron in Long-
acre before the list assizes, and asked him con-
cerning sirT. Gvtscoigne my countryman, and
he said he was cleared, but, God damn the jury
they were rogues. Then he asked me if I had
read Harris's Intelligence of that day, and I told
hira Yes ; and he then asked me if I had seen
his wife's name in it ? He then told me, that he
was going down to the assizes at York against
my lady Tempest, and said, God damn me, I
will ruin them ; if one thing will not do it, ano-
ther snails
Just. Dolben. What are you ? God damn me
comes \ery nimbly out of your mouth.
Thorpe. I live at the White-hart in Charter-
house-lane, with the gentleman of the house; I
married his daughter.
Just. Dolben. And draw pots of ale, that is
your trade ? How comes Bolron to talk thus to
you ? Is he so mad a fellow to talk thus to
everyone? This is not likely that he should
thus accuse himself to you : Your father in law
is a poor ale- housekeeper ?
Bar. At hunt. Are not you a papist ?
Thorpe. No my lord, a Protestant of the
church of England.
Just. Dolben. Have you never been in New-
gate ? Your lane is full of such people, and
your house suspected.
Thorpe. No, xny lord.
Just. Dolben. Come, have you done?
Thorpe. Bolron came to my lodgings at the
Plough on llolhorn-hill before the last assizes,
and told me, if I would swear that Peter Ship-
ton knew no harm by Bolron, he would do any
thing for me.
Just. Dolben. This is a fable, for Bolron
hound Shipton over. at the sessions before the
last assizes.
Bolron. Yes, my lord, it was for scandalous
words against his majesty.
Thorpe, He asked me what Shipton was. I
answered, he is an honest man for aught that I
know : I have taken his owa bond, said Bolron,
but I will have him from court te court, I will
leach him to meddle with me.
Just. Dolben. How came he to speak f thee?
Thrope. I know not why, but it wa& his dis-
course to me.
Bar. Atkynt. What acquaintance was there
ctween you ? ,
Thorpe. 1 have seen him several times in
Yorkshire.
Just. Dolben. You live in Charterhouse-lane ;
How came you together in Long-acre?
Thorpe. I met him accidentally in the street.
Just. Dolben. It is a wonderful thing, that
he should meet one in the street with whom he
had very small acquaintance, and discover such
tilings to him, as he did to you.
Then William Ilardwick was examined.
Uardwick. I was to carry Mrs. Presticks be-
fore Justice Lnwther, and Bolron's wife said
she was sorry for it, for she belief ed her to bt
an honest woman, and had been a good neigh*-
hour amongst them.
Baron Atkynt. Who was sorry?
Hardwick. Mrs. Bolron.
Baron Atkynt. W hat did Bolron himself ssjF
Hardwick. He said nothing to me, he wtf
in another room with las grandmother.
[Justice Dolben taking notice of Timing's
speaking to Mr. Ho ban, demanded whit m
said.]
Hobart. My lord, ha asked me, whether Bol-
ron did not say that sir T. Gascoigne offered
him 1,000/. I only say that he swore at lir T.
Gascoigne's trial.
Justice Dolbtn9 How doth it appear whit be
swore there ?
Bolron. I acquainted Mr. Lowther and Mr,
Tindul with it.
Mary Walker was called.
Justice Dolben. Mary Walker, what do jot;
say?
Walker. Robert Bolron came after Mr.
Thwing was taken prisoner, to my mistress's.
Justice Dolben. Who is your mistress ?
Walker. Mrs. I^assell ; and he asked me if
I knew Mr. Thwing to be a priest, and I told
him, -No, my lord ; he told me that if I would
swear that he was a priest, he would giye me
10/. for be would be revenged of him foriirT.
Gascoigne's cause ; for he was near of kin to
him, and he proffered me 10/. again.
Bolron. Where were you, you were not here
yesterday ?
Walker. I was in the Court yesterday.
Justice Dolben. Where spoke he this?
Walker. At Mrs. Lassell's.
Sir T.St ringer. My lord, he was then search-
ing for priests at that house, and it is improba-
ble that he should endeavour at that time to
suborn Thwing's sister's servant.
Baron Atkynt. Is Mrs. Lassell of kin to Mr.
Thwing?
Walker. Yes, my lord.
Justice Dolben. Who can believe he wonld
come to Tlnving's sister's house, to suborn her
servant to be a witness against Mr. Thwing?
Walker. Yes, my lord, I have witness of ^
both a man and a woman.
Justice Dolben. Where are they?
Walker. In town.
Justice Dolben. That makes it more impro-
bable that he would offer you 10/. io the pre-
sence of two witnesses to swear that Mr. Th«t&|
was a priest.
Sir T. Stringer. Let us ask her a question:
Whether are you a Papist or no ?
Walker. Yes, I am a Catholic.
Sir T. Stringer. Since it mast be probable,
that he would ask you such a thing, and knew
you to be a Papist ; is Thwing a priest or no?
Walker/ No, marry, is he not.
Sir 2'. Stringer. Have you not heard sua
say mass ?
1 173] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL \6%0^Mary Pressicks, far Treason. P 17*
Walker, No, if I were to die.
Justice Dolbtn. Indeed yon are an excellent
witness.
Mr. Leg get } one of the King's Messengers,
produced as a Witnss by the Prisoner*, was
next examined.
Legget. In August Inst, Mr. Bolroo told me,
lie would call his grandmother in, and examine
her before me ; and he then asked her, if she
did not say, that she knew such and such things ?
And she said she could not tell, but if she did,
it was true.
Baron Atkyns. What was it he asked her ?
Legget. About Harcourt, and I know not
what ; I took little notice of it, it seemed to be
a tbing so idle, that I went away : And meet-
ing me afterwards, said, You thought my
grandmother knew nothing, but at the bar, when
sir T. Gascoigne was tried, they said they never ,
heard one swear a thing more plainly.
Justice Dolbtn. Legget, did not you desire
money yesterday of the clerk of the asbizes as a
witness for the king ?
Legget. Yes, iny lord.
Justice Dolbtn. Did you so ? You are a fine
fellow.
Then one William Bucchut was examined.
Bacchus. All that I can say, is, That I served
a warrant upon Mrs. Bolron to go before squire
X>owther, and Bolron 's wife and grandmother
said, they could say nothing against sir T. Gas-
coigne, nor any of the family.
Justice" Dolbtn. Well, they say nothing
against them now, but what did she say against
Sirs. Pressicks ?
Bacchus. She said that Mary Pressicks
should say that the king was an whoremaster,
s snd maintained his whores better than he did
ihe queen.
Cuthbtrt Hamsworth was then called.
Hamsworth being produced as a witness for
sir T. Gascoigne, owned that he had been a
Papist.
Hamsworth. My lord, Robert Bolron did
swear revenge against my lady Tempest, for
, prosecuting a suit against him.
Justice Dolhen. What is that to the matter
jn hand ? Do you know that he swore revenge
against Thwing and Pressicks ?
Hamsworth. No, my lord.
Baron Atkynt (to the prisoners.) What have
you more to say ?
Thwing. My lord, he saitb, I was at Barm-
bow Hall, 1677, I have witnesses to prove
otherwise.
Baron Atkins. Call them then.
George Twisley f Groom to Sir Thomas Gas-
coigne.
Twisley. Mr. Thwing was never at our house
above a night or two in the year.
Justice Dolhen. Whose house is yours ?
Twisley. Sir T. Gascoigne's.
Justice Dolhen. He was there but a night or
two at s time I
Twitley. No, and please your lordship.
Justice Dolhen. But was he there in 167? ?
Twisley. About a year or two since, I saw
him there.
Justice Dolhen. But how often in a twelve-
month's time ? «
Twisley. Not above once or twice.
Baron Atkynt. Did you never go out of
your master's house in 1677 ?
Twisley. I have, my lord, but I was there
both night and morning.
Baron Alkyns. How do you know but he
might be there in the time that you were not
there?
Bolron. And please your lordship, this man
was but the groom.
Twisley. 1 was the groom, my lord, and took
the horses.
Justice Dolhen. But were you never absent?
Twisley. .No, my lord, and he was not theit
above once or twice in the year.
Thwing. Ask him what company was then
there ?
Twisley. No company at all, my lord, when
he was there.
Justice Dolbtn. Was not he there about
Easter?
Twisley. No, not that I know of.
Justice Dolbtn. What time of the year was
he there ?
Twisley. About Michaelmas, not Easter.
Bar. Atkyns. How came- you to take such
particular notice at what time men come? Did
you take an account of all the gentlemen that
cqme to sir Thomas's house, how often there,
and when they came ?
Twisley. There were none that stayed any
time when they came thither.
Bar. Atkyns. What time of the year was bs
there ?
Twisley. It was a month before Michaelmas.
Just. Dolbtn. You bring witnesses to stretch
things even to impossibilities.
Bolron. He was drunk, my lord, at Leeds
the same night the consult was.
Sir Thomas Stringer. Will you speak truth
before Almighty God ?
Twisley. Yes.
Sir Thomas Stringer. Pray, then, are you s
papist?
Twisley. No.
Sir Thomas Stringer. Were you never a
papist ?
Twisley. Yes.
Sir T. Stringer. Have you heard mass at sir
Thomas Gascoigne's when you were a papist ?
Twisley. No.
Sir T. Stringer. That is very strange, that
you lived there and never heard mass, and yet
were a papist.
Twisley. Yes, I heard mass in his house, but
not by this man.
Sir T, Stringer. Ham long have yon been
turned protestant ?
Twisley. About two years.
Thwing. Thomas Areton. Did you ever
me at Barmbew-Hall ?
1 T75] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cham.** IL I d80.— Trial <f Tfm: Thwing, and [IMS
Areton. I have nothing for nor against him,
I never saw him before in my life.
*tfiwing. Mr. Mowbray hath declared he
never knew any thing of the plot.
Just. Dolben^ To whom did be declare it ?
Thecing. There is witness of it, my lord.
Just. Dolben. Call them.
Timing. He accused not me of the plot.
Just. Dolben. He was no protectant then.
Thwing. I never knew any thing of the plot
until I came from London.
Just. Dolben. Well, if you have any more
witnesses, call them.
Thwing. Mr. Cooper.
Joseph Cooper. I have nothing to say in this
business about this gentleman, it is concerning
sir T. Gascoicme.
Thwing. Yes, he declared before these wit-
nesses he knew nothing of ihe plot.
Cooper. We were coining from Atherton fair,
and my father began to discourse with Mr.
Mowbray, and asked him if he knew any thing
of the plot that §ir Thomas was called to
London for; he said, he knew nothing of the
plot, and he thought sir Thomas was guilty of
no such thing; for, if he bad, he should have
known it as soon ae Bolron, and he was a
rogue and a knave for saving any such thing.
Just. Dolben. When was this i
Cooper. It was about this time twelvemonth.
Just. Dolben. Were you upon the road then?
Cooper. Yes.
Sir T. Stringer. Had Mowbray then made
any discovery of the plot ?
Cooper. Yes, that was the reason we asked
him about it.
Just. Dolben. Yesterday (upon lady Tem-
pest's trial) you said, that Mowbray had not
then made any discovery.
Cooper. Yes, my lord, I mean Bolroo.
Just. Dolben. Really, methinks, you that arc
priests should be more dextrous ; my lady Tem-
pest managed her business much better, and
had her witnesses in more readiness.
- Thwing. My lord, I call upon the witnesses
and they will not come iit, I cannot help it.
Edward Cooper, senior, was then called.
Edtcard Cooper. I know nothing ; I met
Mr. Mowbray coming from Atherton fair, and
he said, be (bought sir Thomas was not guilty
of the plot.
Thwing. Mr. Mowbray declared for eight or
ten months together in 1677, he knew nothing of
the plot. Call Mr. Hobart.
Hobart. I know nothing of it.
Thwing. I am innocent, I know nothing, as
t hope for salvation.
Then Isabel Heyward, a girl that lived with
-' Bolron as a servant, was called.
Isabel Heyward. My master and mistress fell
out about going to London, and she said, she
would not go, and he said he would make her
go ; and she said, if he did, she would swear
that what be had sworn against Mrs. Pressicks
was oat of malice.
Alice Dawson was neat examined.
Alice. Damson. The day after New YearV
day was twelve-months, Mrs. Bolron said, she
was sorry for nothing but thai her husband bad
meddled with Mrs. Pressicks.
Then Mrs. Pressicks called for John Pepper,
Just. Dolben. What do you say to him,
mistress ?
Pressicks. I ask about my going to Parlingtor
at Whitsuntide.
Just. Dolben. No, it was at Candlemxi, and
they said it was cold weather to sit in the hall-
porch.
Pressicks. It was also said at Whitsuntide.
John Pepper. About Whitsun Monday, my
lord, I went to Barmbow, and met there witi
Mr. Pressicks and Mrs. Pressicks ; and he de-
sired me to tarry and carry his wife to Ma
Harrison's, at Partington, and she and I went
down to Sliipton, and carried her from Bolrotri
on Whitsun- Monday, and staid till Thursday.
Just. Dolben. And what is all this to the
purpose ? She was, howerer, as it was swore
against her, at Shipton at Whitsuntide.
Pepper. This is all I can say, my lord.
Zachary Thorpe was again called by Timing.
Thorpe. Bolron said, he was going to swear
against my lady Tempest, and if one thing
would not do, another should, and wooidhiTf
had me to give evidence against Shipton.
Mrs. Baynes (mother to Mr. Bolron) called.
Bar. Atkyns. What do yon say, Mrs. Baynes?
Mrs. Baynes. Indeed, ray" lord, I know no-
thing of this, I know not Thorpe, Shipton I
know, and he told me ; that if he bad not
fallen into my lord of Shrewsbury's service, U
and Thorpe would have turned highwaymen.
Mr. Babbington called by Pressicks.
Just. Dolben. Can you say any thing for Mr.
Pressicks?
Babbington. lean say nothing, but what I
said yesterday concerning sir T. Gasconnt.
Just. Dolben. Can you say any thing for
Pressicks ?
Babbington. No, my lord, I can Say nothing
for Mrs. Pressicks; yes, thus much I oiuststy,
that when I came to have the writings sealed by
Bolron, his wife refused to seal them without
delivering up of the bonds. I told her, it
would be an additional security to sir T. Gas-
coigne ; he said he did believe, that Mr. Pro*
sicks and bis wife were his enemies, ami tad
they did instigate sir Thomas to sue him-
Just. Dolben (to Thwing). Come, what bait
you more to say ?
Thmng. I have no witnesses to call, bat I hops
it will be considered what kind of witnesses
these are, what lives they have led ; they bring
me in amongst the rest, we are all of a \*&&V*
I hope, my lord, you will consider that tbobew
men that will, may take away an honest manfl
life unjustly.
1P27] STATE TRIALS, 33 Chwrles H, 16$0.—Maiy French, for Treason* [1178
Just. Dol&en. I hear nobody speak against
their lives ; and this I mast tell you-, till men be
convicted of some crime that mar disable them,
yotf cannot take away their testimony.
Timing. My lord, witnesses should be men
of credit and reputation.
Just. Dolben. The jury is tp consider of that.
Look you, gentlemen, these two prisoners
stand indicted of high-treason, and it is for con-
spiring the death of the king, and other heinous
crimes ; as designing the subverting the go-
vernment, and bringing in the popish religion.
- Now, the witnesses that have been produced
against Mr. Timing, are Bolron and Mowbray ;
and against Pressicks, Mr. Bolron, Mrs. Bolron
sen. and jun. and one Hutchinson; and the evi-
dence against Thwing is nne thing, and against
the woman quite another; there is no evidence
against her but what they heard her say others
were to do ; there is no evidence of any action
of hers, or that she was present at any consul-
tation, nor acting any thing there, but that she
said so and so. Now Mr. Bolron and his
grandmother do both say, that she said Picker-
ing was to have killed the king, and that she
was sorry that he did not do it. That the gun
with which he should have done it was found,
and she was afraid that was the cause of his
death ; and they all say she said, that it would
never be well with England, till the Catholics
bad got the upper hand, and the duke of York
were king. Now I must tell you, tbat my opi-
nion is, that a bare saying of this doth not
amount to high- treason, unless you do believe
from these words, that she knew otherwise than
by hearsay, that Pickering was to have killed
the king, and that she was privy and consent-
ing to the design of killing the sing, then she
is guilty of treason ; but if she only knew it by
hearsay, the bare knowledge and concealing of
it will make her guilty of misprision of treason ;
but knowing of it barely by report doth not
make her guilty of high-treason. My brother
will tell you his opinion herein. Now for Mr.
Thwing, the evidence against him is very home,
for they both swear against him, one to one
meeting, and the other to another, that he was
present at their consultation to kill the king,
subvert the government, and to bring in the
popish religion ; that he did agree at the meet-
ing to the killing of the king, they do both
swear, and this they say was at sir T. Gas-
ooigne's, and that at the several meetings there
was a list produced ; but Bolron saith, that
the list when he was present was a list of tho^e
Chat were engaged towards the carrying on of
the nunnery ; that which the other speaks of,
was a list of those tbat were engaged about the
killing the king, about the whole design which
was to he effected by killing the king, this he
Swears, that Thwing did produce this list; and
Mowbray saith, that three or four priests were
{resent at that time, and that Thwing. said the
ing was an heretic, and excommunicated by
the pope, and that it was not only lawful but
meritorious to kill him. So that admitting this
evideftce be true, it is a full evidence of high-
treason against him ; here is an imagining the
death of the king, and here is an overt-act,
here is a setting hands to it ; so that if this be
true, Thwing is guilty of high- treason. Now
against this they have produced many wit*
nesses, and none of them doth go about to
prove tins impossible, but only improbable;
but one that is a groom of sir T. Gascoigne's,
who saith, he was but once or twice that year
there, and not at Easter, but about Michael-
mas : is that enough to answer the testimony of
these two men, gentlemen ? For a groom to
take upon him to say two years after, who wis
at his master's house, and how often, ann* what
time of the year, is to me a very strange thing ;
unless it were one that never nsed to come
there : but this man, he saith, did use to corns
there— but that I must leave to you. The rest
of the witnesses were the same that were exa-
mined yesterday. First, they insist concerning
Mr. Lowther, they say, that when Mr. Bolron
first went to Mr. Lowther, he said nothing of
Mr. Thwing, but it appears, he said then, that
afterwards he might remember more ; then the
man was nnder a great consternation, and told
him the great and dangerous consequences of
having so long concealed it, was the occasion of
that disorder upon him ; but he said he should
remember more afterwards, and so be did : the
rest of the witnesses do all go to this purpose,
that either Bolron or IViowbray should tell
them at one time or other, they did know
nothing of the Plot, nor against sir T. Gas-
coigne ; and some of them say, that it is out
of malice to sir Thomas's family ; for so Thwing
would have it, he being his nephew, that the
malice should reach to Mr. Thwing, that they
would have it ; and some tiling to the same
purpose they do offer against Mr. Mowbray.
Now here is one Walker, that swears, that a
Bolron asked her if she knew Thwing to bee
priest, and offered her 10/. to swear him a
priest ; she is a servant of one Mrs. La*seH,
Mr. Thwing's sister, he came to Mrs. LasseN's,
to search for priests ; it is something strange,
that he should offer to persuade her to swear
against Thwing, who was a servant to his own
sister, and at ine time when he came to search
for priests ; the truth of it is, the thing doth
depend purely upon the credit of witnesses.
THe king's witnesses are upon their oaths;
but, on the other hand, the others are not on
their oaths ; but credit is to be given to what
they say, if you consider their evidence, and
do find a clearness in their testimony, which
you must weigh ; for certainly he that solemnly,
in rhe presence of God, will say a raise thing,
will also dare to swear it ; how far their prin*
ciples will carry them I know not, I can see
nothing but Bolron and Mowbray are good
witnesses ; I do not see but what they say if
coherent, and that they speak th'e truth ; and
if you believe what they say to be true, then
Thwing is guilty of high-treason : but if you do
not believe what they say is true, but out of
malice, you must acquit him. They do object
the other juries did not believe Bolron aw}
Having,
[lltO
Mowbray ; the case with the prisoners at the
bar is nut the same with theirs ; but you are to
give your verdict according to the evidence
that you have heard, and according to your
consciences.
Mr. Baron Atkym. Gentlemen of the jury,
I shall be very short. The crimes that are laid
in this indictment, and charged upon these
persons, are, the designing to take away the
king's life, subverting the government, and in-
troducing popery ; you observe the nature of
the evidence which hath been given against
the prisoners. And first, I shall speak but one
word concerning Mary Pressicks: I do fully
agree with what my brother hath said ; you do
take notice, that the evidence that hath been
given against her, hatb been what came out of
her own mouth ; the witnesses are Mr. Bolron
and his grandmother, and likewise one Hutch-
inson : Mr. Bolron saith she did tell him, that
Harcourt was her. confessor, and that he had
engaged her in the P/ot ; she likewise told him,
that Pickering was to kill the king, that the
gun was found with him, and was the cause of
his death : this is some evidence of high-trea-
son, I must leave it to you of what weight it
is, and how far by this you will conclude her
privjyto the Plot ; it is true, were she an actor
in it, it is plain she is guilty of high-treason. As
to what Hutchinson said, that she told him we
should never be at peace till we were all of the
Roman Catholic religion, and the duke of
York was made king, that will not amount to
high-treason t this I take to be the sum of the
evidence against her. Then as to Mr. Thwing,
there are two witnesses that have sworn against
him, that is Mr. Bolron and. Mr. Mowbray:
Bolron tells you, that in 16/7, there came to
him several priests, to hi* house at Shipton ;
. mud amongst the rest Thwing the prisoner, who
asked him, how he stood affected to the Roman
Catholic religion ? And he then expressed his
zeal for it, and they thought him a person fit
to impart their secrets to : then he saith, that
in 1677, there was ^meeting at Barmbow-hall,
which is sir T. Gascoigne's house, and at that
meeting there were sir T. Gascoigue, esq. Gas-
coigne, sir Miles Stapleton, and amongst the
rest this prisoner Thwing ; and that there was
a consult held at that time, and design of kill-
ing the king ; and that this person did agree
to it, and declared that if they should miss that
opportunity, they should never have such ano-
ther ; and that it was for the good of the Roman
Catholic religion. The next was Mowbray ;
and he saith to the same effect : that in 1676,
Thwing and others declared they did design to
kill the king, for he was a heretic, and excom-
municated, and had not kept his word with the
Jesuits, and therefore they thought it not only
lawful, but a meritorious act : and this is what
both Bolron and Mowbray do testify, this they
swear positively against the prisoner ; if you
believe what they have sworn to be true, I must
declare that it will amount to high- treason.
You are likewise to consider 'the evidence he
hath produced for himself: the law, it is true,
does not allow us to give them an oath ; jet
if they be persons of credit and honesty, it is
evidence which you are to consider of. The
prisoner hath called several witnesses: the
first was Nat. Wilson ; I shall not repeat what
he saith, being of no import. Thwing saith,
Mr. Bolron was before Mr. Lowtber and Mr.
Tindal, two justices of peace, who did take his
oath ; and then he said he did not accuse him
.of the Plot at that time, and by that weald
infer, that he would have said what be had
against him, as well then as now, if be had any
thing whereof to accuse him ; but Bolron an-
swers, he did declare to these two gentlemen,
he was not able at that time to recollect his
whole knowledge, but gave it in afterwards to
the king and council. The next are Moor and
Thorpe : the effect of their evidence is to strike
at the reputation of Bolron, that it was an act
of malice and revenge: for they say, that
Bolron told them, that sir Thomas was inno-
ceut, and knew nothing of the Plot. Thorpe
saith, he met with Bolron in Long-Acre, and
that he told him, that though sir Thomas were
quitted, he would ruin some of them. I say,
these things, if true, are some evidence of a
malicious prosecution : but it seems something
improbable, that Bolron should so openly make
a discovery of himself, when it appears he wis
not greatly acquainted with them, especially
with Thorpe. There are several other wit-
nesses that speak much to the same purpose.
Gentlemen, in matters of fact, which depend
upon the testimony of witnesses, the credit of
the witnesses is greatly to be considered ; if
you believe what Bolron and Mowbray bare
both positively sworn, the treason is plaiu ; you
must take all the parts of your evidence toge-
ther, you must weigh all the circumstances,
you must, as I said before, consider the credit
of the witnesses of the one side and of tbt
other, and by these steps you will be the better
guided in giving of your verdict. I must leave
it to you, and I pray God direct you therein.
The Jury having withdrawn, .after some con-
sultation together, brought in their verdict, that
Thomas Thwing was Guilty, and Mary Pres-
sicks Not Guilty. *
August the 2nd, 1680, Thomas Thwing being
brought to the bar, the clerk spoke thus :
Clerk. Thomas Thwing, bold up thy band:
Thou hast been indicted, that thou as a falst
traitor did conspire the death of the king, &c.
and thereof hast been found guilty : what canst
thou say wherefore judgment of death should
not be pronounced against thee?
Thwing. My lord, as I am now upon my life,
I know nothing of these things, in the least,
that these men have sworn against me : And
on the other side, I say, that before sir T. Gas-
coigne had his trial, these men said nothing
against me; so I hope your lordship will take
it into consideration.
, Justice DolBcn. For your innocency, the
gentlemen of the jury are judges of that, and
I1SI] STATE TRIALS, 32ChaklesIL J6S0— Mary Pre$iicks,far Treason. [118f
all that was sworn against him, but gloried that
he was a priest, and had performed the priest-
ly function about 15 years; and desiring all
true catholics, if any such were there, to pray
for him ; and begging God to bless and pre-
serve the king, his queen, the duke of York, and
all other good christians, be yielded himself to
the executioner. •' lie delivered in writing this
following Speech :
" This sudden news of my execution (after
my reprieve) coining so unexpectedly, made
me fearl should have more severity shewed me
than has been to others ; and consequently, 4 hat
I should not have my full liberty to declare my
mind in the place of my execution; therefore
I have briefly expressed myself iu writing, as
followeth :
" First, as I hope for salvation and benefit
of the blood and passion of my blessed Saviour,
I most sincerely protest, that what Rob. Bol-
ron, and L. Mowbray swore against me, was
absolutely false; for here, in the pretence of
the eternal God, J declare I never knew of any
consult at Barn bow, the least prejudicial to the
king or kingdom; nor was I ever at any, such
consult, or meeting, with sir T. Gascoigne, Mr,
Gascoigne his son, sir Miles Stapleton, the lady
Tempest, Mr.Ingleby, or any other, where any
thing was treated, spoken, or written, about
killing the king, or alteration of the govern-
ment ; nor did I ever see, or know of any List
of names of persons mentioned, and sworn by
them against me. * -
" Secondly, Upon my salvation I declare,
that I never had been in my whole life-time
guilty, even so much as in thought, of any
treason against his majesty, or the kingdom ;
being directly contrary to the principles of our
faith.
" Thirdly, That although I have, and do de-
clare against the oath of allegiance, as it if %
worded, yet it is only by reason of some clauses
therein contained, not pertaining to allegiance;
and therefore if an oatb, containing nothing but
allegiance, had been legally tendered me, I
should have thought it a sin to refuse it,
" Lastly, I acknowledge myself a priest, and
to have (about 15 years) performed the priest-
ly function; which I am so far from denying,
that I thought it the greatest honour imaginable.
" Now, dear countrymen, having made this
protestation in the most plain and serious terms
I could, without all equivocation, or mental re-
servation whatsoever ; I appeal to the eternal
judge, whether all good christians ought not ra-
ther to believe what is here in this manner
sworn by me, in my present circo instances,
than what was sworn by my accusers, whom,
notwithstanding, I beg of God Almighty to for-
give ; as also the jury, and all others, who have
in any kind, concurred to my death.
Then again professing his innocence, and
praying for his king and country, he concluded
with these -seeming prophetic words. N
" Though I know the affairs of the kingdom
are in a bad posture, yet I hope they will be
cleared ere long ; and then the aotora thereof
will be more fully known."
they have found you guilty, so that it a not in
my power either 'to acquit or condemn you ;
I am only to pass sentence according to tbat
conviction. If you have any thing to say
wherefore judgment should not be pronounced,
I am ready to hear you.
Thwing. All that I can say is to declare my
innocency, and that these men are of no credit
And reputation. It is very hard I only should
be guilty, and none of the rest, who were ar-
raigned for the same crimes.
Justice Dolbtn. No, it is not impossible; it is
possible you may be guilty, and the rest inno-
cent.
Thwing. For my part, I told your lordship
that I. was but once or twice in a year at sir T.
Gascoigne's, being my uncle, and I do protest
I know nothing of the consult these men do
charge me with.
Justice Dolben. You say one thing, they
swear another, and for aught I know they are
honest men; they are lawful men, and not
convicted in the main; for I do believe there
were many great and dangerous consults held at
sir T. Gascoigne's by several persons, and that
there have been many horrid and treasonable
things acted there. You have been indicted
for bigh-treasen, the highest treason that ever
any subject was guilty of, for attempting to kill
the king, for resolving so to do upon deliberate
advice and consultation ; and this for oo other
end or purpose, but tbat you might have your
religion set up, for that was your design, to
change this religion here, and to settle popery
in England ; and the better to bring that to
fass, you thought to take away the king's life,
nowmg you could not otherwise accomplish it.
You are, I am satisfied, a priest of tlie Romish
church; therefore all tbat lean say to you
in reference to your future state you will not
value, for you account me an heretic as you do
the king, and I am content to be so esteemed
so so good company} therefore I shall wave
it. As you are a gentleman,! will give some
respect to you, and will not pass sentence on
you .among the rest of the prisoners that are
found guilty of felony and murder, but will do
it by yourself.
The law doth command the court, and the
court doth award, " That you be carried from
hence to the place from whence you came, that
is, the prison, and from thence you are to be
drawn to the place of execution : you are there
to be hanged by the neck, you are to be cut
down before yon are dead, and your entrails are
to be taken out of your body, and thrown into
the fire before your face, and your head is to be
parted from your body, and your body separat-
ed in four quarters, and your head and' your
quarters are to be disposed according to the
king's pleasure. And the Lord have mercy on
your soul/'
Thwing. ' Innocens ego sum/
. A reprieve being obtained for him, he re-
mained condemned in the castle of York, till
the 23d of October, when, according to the
sentence, he was drawn, hanged and quartered
at York, having first protested his innocence of
1168] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II. 1610— Trial if Muabctk
[U8i
270. The Trial of Elizabeth Cellier,* at the Old Bailey, for
writing and publishing a Libel, f September 11th and 13th,
32 Charles II. a. d. 1680.
Clerk of the Crown. MRS. Oilier, look
to your challenges ; for the Jury that it to be
sworn is to pass upon you.
Cellier. Am I for my life ?
CI of Cr. No, but look to your challenges.
Lord Mayor. But if you challenge, you must
give a reason for it, Mrs. Cellier.
CI. of Cr. Swear John Ainger. [Which
was donej
CI. of Cr. Swear Richard Boys.
Cellier. I challenge him.
Lord Mayor. Mrs. Cellier, you must shew a
cause for your challenge.
Celfitr. I did not know that, my lord.
Baron Weiton. You cut! challenge none in
this ca»e without a cause.
Cellier. My lord, I did not know that : Then
I agree he shall be sworn. [Which was done.]
Then the rest of the Jury, without any more
challenges, were sworn ; and they were all as
follows : John Ainger, Richard Boys, John
Stephens, Thomas Phelps, Gilbert Urwin, Ed-
ward 'AHanson, Richard Liveing, John Coggs,
Henry Hogsden, John 'Barnard, Edward Low,
James Southern.
Then Proclamation was made in common
form for Information ; and the clerk charged
the Jury thus :
'Cl.qfCr. You gentlemen that are sworn,
Elizabeth Cellier* stands indicted by the name
of Elizabeth Cellier, wife of Peter Cellier, of
the parish of St. Clement-Danes, in the county
of Middlesex, gent. For that she being of the
-* From a pamphlet intituled " The Trial
and Sentence of Elizabeth Cellier ; for writing,
printing, and publishing, a scandalous Libel,
called Malice Defeated, &c. At the Sessions in
the Old-Bailey, held 6aturday the llih and
Monday the ISth of Sept. 1580. Wheeeunto is
added eeverel Depositions,- made before the
right honourable the Lord Mayor. London,
printed for Thomas Collins, at the Middle-Tem-
ple-Gate, 1680."
" September 13th, 1660. I do appoint
4 Thomas Collins stationer, to print the Trial of
* Mrs.1 Cellier at the Sessions, and that no other
4 do presume to print the same.
Robert Clayton, Mayor/'
f See her Trial for High Treason, tupra,
p. 1043. In the 4th vol. df the Harieian Mis-
-cellauy, p. 136, is printed, " A Scheme for
the 'Foundation of a Royal Hospital, and rais-
ing a Revenue- of 6 or 6,000/. a year, by and
♦fur the maintenance of a Corporation of skilful
llfitiwives, and such Foundlings or t loosed
children as shall be admitted therein, as it was
•proposed and addressed to his majesty king
{Fames the Second, by Mrs. Elizabeth Cellier,
-in the aoalb ef Jioe, 1667."
Popish Religion, not having the fear of God be-
fore her eyes, bin being moved and seduced be
the instigation of the devil, fhlsly and malicious*
ly endeavouring and intending our sotereigD
lord king Charles toe Sod that now is, and the
government of this kingdom of England, as
also the true Protestant Religion, within this
kingdom of England by law established, lo
bring to hatred aud contempt; and also to
bring scandal and infamy upon divers person
produced as witnesses, that gave evidence on
the part and behalf of our sovereign lord the
king, against her the said Elizabeth Cellier, sod
other persons indicted of High-Treason; the
1st of September, in the 39ud year of our ease-
reign lord king Charles the 2nd that now is, si
•the parish of St. Clement-Danes, in the county
of Middlesex aforesaid, falsly, maliciously «d
seditiously did write and publish, and did cause
to be writ, imprinted and published a scanda-
lous Libel, intituled, * Malice Defeated : Or, s
' brief Relation of the, Accusation and Deliver*
' ance of Elizabeth Cellier : Wherein her Fn>
* ceedings, both before and during her connae-
' men t, are particularly related, an dt he Mystcrj
' of the Meal-Tub* fully discovered: Together
* with an abstract of her Arraignment and Tnsl:
' Written 4y herself for the satisfaction of all
' lovers of undisguised truth/ In which said
Libel are contained these false, feigned, scan-
dalous words and figures following, to wit: 'I
' hope it will not seem strange to any hoot*
' and loyal person of what way or religion jo-
' ever, l oat I being born and baed up under
' Protestant parents, should now openly profs*
' myself of another church (meaning the chores
' of Rome ;) for my education beiog in those
' times, wlien my own parents and relations,
* for their constant and faithful affection to tss
* Of her concern with the Meal-Tob Plot,
see some accounts in the Report of her Case
for High Treason, supra, p. 1043.
Sir William Temple calls the Meal-Tub Plot
an intrigue, which he coold never make say
thing of nor thought worth his enquiry; tod J*
says, that lords Essex and Halifax, upon tbf
private examination of it, took such a distme
at finding themselves mentioned io it, and Jit
left out of the secret examinations about it,
that their discontents grew open against m
court, end lord Essex left the Treasury.
Sir William Williams, the tweaker,. ta re-
nouncing Sentence ef Expulsion apoasirn^
eert- Peyton, for " negociatiug with the dott
of York, by means of lord Peterborough, Mj*
Cellier and Gadbury, when they were torsi*
the Popish Plot upon the Protestants,! told mm,
" You have sat betwixt the .Devil and m
Wuch^Mr. Gadbury arui Mrs, CeJkief/' *"
* Cobb„Ferl. Hut. 1333.
a
1185] STATE TRIALS, S^Charlis n. \6$Q.—jbr\vrUingandpHblis}nngalJbcl.[\\8G
offices of charity I was obliged to; and on
Thursday, January the 9th (1678.) 1 dined in
Newgate in the room called the Castle, on the
master's side debtors, and about four in the
afternoon 1 came down into the Lodge with
five women, of which three were protestants,
and we all heard terrible groans and squeaks,
*which came out of the dungeon called the
Condemned Hole. I asked Harris the turn-
key what doleful cry it was ; he said it was a
woman in labour. I bid him put us into the
room to her, and we would help her. But
he drove us away very rudely, both out of the
lodge and from the door. We went behind
the gate and there listened, and soon found
that it was the voice of a strong man in tor-
ture, and heard as we thought between his
■roans the winding up of some engine;
These cries stopped the passengers under the
gate, and we sis went to the turner's shop
without the gate, and stood there amazed
with the horror and dread of what we heard ;
when one of the officers of the prison came
out in great haste, seeming to run from the
noise. One of us catched hold of him, say-
ing, Oh f what are they doing in the prison f
Officer. I dare not tell you, mistress. It is a
man upon the rack : I'll lay my Hfe on it.
Officer. It is something like it. Celiier, /Who
is it, Prance ? Officer. Pray, madam, do not
ask me, for I dare not tell you. But it is that
I am not able to hear any longer. Pray let
me go. With that he ran away towards Hoi-
born as fast as he could. We heard these
groans perfectly to the end of the Old Bailey.
They continued till near seven o'clock, and
then a person in the habit of a minister, of
middle stature, grey- haired, accompanied with
two other men, went into the lodge. The
prisoners were locked up, and the outward
door of the lodge also, at which I set a person
to stand, and observe what she could, and a
prisoner loaded with irons was brought into
the lodge, and examined a long time. And
the prisoners that came down as low as they
could, heard the person examined with greatf
vehemency say often, I know nothing of it, I
am innocent, he forced me to belie myself
What would you have me say? Will you
murder me because I will not belie myself and
others ? Several other such like expressions
they heard spoken as by one in great agony.
About 4 o'clock next morning, the prisouers
that lay in a place above the Hole heard the
same cry again two hours,, and on Saturday
morning again ; and about 8 o'clock that
morning a person I employed to spy out -the '
truth of that affair, did see the turnkeys car-
rying a bed into the Hole. She asked who it
was for ; they told her it was for Prance who
was gone mad, and had tore his bed in pieces.
That night the examiners came again, and
after an hour's conference Prance was led
away to the* Press-Yard. This and many
things of the like nature, made me very in-
quisitive to know what passed in the prison.
Soon after this Francis Corral a coachman,
I 46
4 king and royal family, were persecuted, the
4 king himself murdered, the bishops and church
4 destroyed, the whole loyal party, merely for
4 being eo, oppressed and ruined ; and all, as
4 was pretended by the authors of <bese vhV
4 lainies, for their being papists and idolaters,
* the constant character given by them to the
* king and his friends to make them odious",
4 they assuming to themselves only the name of
4 -protestants, and making that the glorious title
'by which they pretended right to all things:
4 These sorts of proceeding, as I grew in under-
4 standing, produced in me more and more hor-
4 ror of the party that committed them, and
4 put me on enquiry into that religion to which
4 they pretended the greatest antipathy; where-
4 in, I thank Ood, my innate loyalty not only
4 confirmed, but encouraged me. And let
4 calumny say what it will, I never beard from
4 any papist?, at they call them, priest n'orjay-
4 man, but that they and I, and nil true catho-
4 lie's owe our lives to the defence of our lawful
4 king, which our present sovereign Charles 2,
4 is, whom God long and happily preserve so.
4 These sorts of doctrines agreeing to my pub-
4 lie morals, and no way, as ever I was taught,
4 contradicting my private ones, commending at
4 the same time to me charity and devotion ; I
4 without any scruple have hitherto followed,
4 glorying to myself to be in communion with
4 those who were the humble instruments of
4 his majesty's happy preservation from the
« fatal battle at Worcester; and who, though
4 -poor, no temptation could invite to betray
4 him to those who by a pretended pro testa nt
4 principle sought his innocent blood. These
4 truths, I hope, may satisfy an indifferent per-
4 son in my first change ; nor can they wonder
4 at my continuance therein, that notwithstand-
ing the horrid crimes of treason and murder
4 laid to the charge of some persons, considera-
4 ble for their quality and fortunes in that party :
4 For, when I reflected who were the witnesses,
4 and what unlikely things they deposed, and
4 observed tfrat many of the chiefest sticklers
4-for the Plot were those, or the sons of those,
4 that acted the principal parts in the last
4 tragedy, which history told me too had the
'prologue of a pretended Popish Plot ; I say,
4 these things made me doubtful of the whole;
* and the more I searched for truth, the more I
1 doubted that the old enemies of the crown
4 were again at work for its destruction. I
4 being rally confirmed in this, thought it my
4 duty through all sorts of hazards, to relieve
4 the poor imprisoned catholics, who in great
4 numbers were locked up in gaols, starving for
4 want of bread: And this I did some months
4 before I ever saw the counters of Powis, or
4 any of those honourable persons that were ac-
•cused, or receiving of one penny of their
* money directly or indirectly, till about the
'latter end of January (1678.') And in ano-
ther part of the said Libel are contained these
false, feigned and scandalous words and
figures following ; to wit, ' About this time I
'went daily to the prisons to perform those
vol. VI i.
11*7] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial qf Elizabeth Ctllier, [lift
* that had been pot into Newgate npon suspi-
' cion of carrying away sir Edmundbury God-
1 frey's body, and lay there thirteen weeks and
* three days in great misery, got out. I went
* to see him, and found him a sad spectacle,
* having the fiesh worn away, and great holes
' in both bis legs by the weight of his irons, and
1 having been chained so long double, that he
' could not stand upright ; be told me much of
'his hard and cruel usage, as that he bad been
* squeezed and hasped into a thing like a
* trough, in a dungeon under ground ; which
' put him to inexpressible torment, insomuch
' that he swooned, and that a person in the
' habit of a minister stood by all the while.
* That a duke beat him, pulled him hy the
' hair, and set his drawn sword to his breast
' three times, and swore be would run him
f through ; and another great lord laid down a
* heap of gold, and told him it was 500/. and
1 that he should have it all, and be taken into
* the aforesaid duke's house, if he would con-
4 fess what tbey would have him ; and one F.
* a vintner, that lives at the sign of the Half-
' Moon in Ch-si- by whose contrivance be was
' accused, took him aside, and bid him name
* some person, and say, they employed him to
* take up the dead body in Somerset- Yard, and
*£ave him money for so doing ; that if be would
* do tjiis, both F. and he should have money
4 enough. He also told me, that he was kept
* from Thursday till Sunday without victuals or
4 drink, having bis hands every night chained
€ behind him, and being all this time locked to
4 a staple which was driven into the floor, with
* a chain not above a yard long : That in this
4 great extremity he was forced to drink his
' own water; and that the jailor beat his wife
* because she brought victuals, and prayed that
'he might have it, and threw milk on the
* ground, and bid her begone, and not look at
4 him.' And in another part of the said Libel,
is contained, amongst otncr things, these false,
feigned, and scandalous words and figures fol-
lowing, to wit, ' My arraignment (which in
* confidence of my own innocency, I continu-
' ally pressed for) not but that I knew the dan-
' ajar, as to this life, of encountering the devil
* m the worst of his instruments, which are
4 perjurors encouraged to that degree as that
' prorogated wretch9 (meaning Thomas Dan-
gerfield, produced as a witness against her for
High Treason) ' was, and hath been since his
' being exposed to the world in his true colour,
4 both at mine and another's trial/ And in
another part of the said Libel are contained
these false, feigned and scandalous words and
figures following, ' Nor have I since received
' any thing towards my losses, or the least civi-
* lity from any of them, whilst Dangerfield'
(meaning the said Thomas Dangerfield) ' when
'-made a prisoner for apparent recorded rogue-
4 ries, was visited by and from persons of con-
* siderable quality, with gieaj sums of gold and
1 stiver, to encourage him in the new villanies
4 he bad undertnkcu, not against me alone, but
1 persons in whose safety all good men,, as well
' Protestants as others in the three kingoosM,
' are concerned/ And in another part of the
said Libel called, ' A Postscript to the iaipsf-
' tial readers/ are contained these false, fags-
ed, and scandalous words following, to wit,
' And whensoever his majesty pleases to make
4 it as safe and honourable, as it is apparent it
* hath been gainful and meritorious to do lbs
' contrary ; there will not want witnessts ts
' testify the trutji of more than I have written,
' and persons that are above being mass the
' hangman's hounds for weekly pensions, or
' any other considerations whatsoever ;' to tat
evil and dangerous example of all others in tat
like case offending, and against the pesos of
our sovereign lord the king, his crown and dig-
nity. Upon this indictment she hath been ar-
raigned, and thereunto bath pleaded. Not
Guilty, and for ber trial bath put herself upon
the country, which country you are ; so jour
issue is to try whether she be Guilty of this of- -
fence in manner and form whereiu she standi
indicted, or Not Guilty. If you find herGuJtj,
you are to say so ; and if you find her Not
Guilty, you are to say so, and no more, sod
hear your evidence.
Then Robert Dormer, esq. of Liocoln's-Ist,
opened the indictment thus :
Mr. Dormer, May it please your lordship,
and you gentlemen of the jury : Elizabeth Cd-
lier, the gentlewoman at the bar, the wife of
Peter Cellier of the parish of St Clemen-
Danes in the county of Middlesex, gentleman,
stands indicted of being the author and sss»
lisherof a Libel, intituled, "Malice defeated,
or a brief Relation of the Accusation and De-
liverance of Elizabeth Cellier/' You btm
heard the indictment read, wherein sons
clauses of this Libel are recited in the wordi
they were written, and in Mrs. Cellier's own
words, and in other words I will not undertake
to repeat them to you. — Gentlemen, this is s
Libel so complicated and general, that within
this book are contained as many libels of seve-
ral natures, and against different persons and
orders of men, as there are paragraphs ; ktf
majesty, the Protestant religion, our laws, go-
vernment, magistrates, counsellors of statf*
courts of judicature, the king's evidence, sad
the public justice of this kingdom are all as-
persed and defamed, by the virulency and ma-
lice of this woman's pen.— She bain charged
upon the principles of our religion, the morder
of his late majesty, and the greatest impieties
that ever were committed.— She aceoseth sit
that have done their duties, or been active ie
the discovery of the present Popish Plot, to bt
enemies of the crown, and to be acting •**
again t lie tragedy of our late civil war— Sm
chargeth oar laws with, cruelties, as iahsmao
as they arc false, in nermitting prisoners to
starve under their confinement, in admitting*!
racks and tortures to be used, and that for tfet
worst purposes, thereby to eitort P*I3orJC,,,°T
false evidences against the innocent; to waioi
she would make persous of the best qaal>(« •»
1 189} STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I 680 _/or wiring and publishing a Libel. [ 1 1 <X)
our nobility, magistracy mnd clergy, privies and
parties. — She libels the king's evidences under
the characters of the devil's instruments, and
the hangman's hounds ; and defames bis ma-
jesty's government, in saying, it is not safe to
•peak troth, but meritorious and gainful to do
the contrary.— She will appear to you to be so
criminal, that nothing can aggravate Iter of-
fences, unless the impudence oftbe delinquent,
•who hath set her name to almost every page
of this scandalous Libel ; and since the in-
dictment hath been depending, owned, pub-
lished, and put a value ou herself for being the
author of so excellent a book. — To the indict-
ment she bath pleaded Not Guilty ; if the king's*
evidence prove the charge, you are to find her
Guilty.
* Barqn Weston. Gentlemen, the charge is
but this : First,, she is charged with the setting
forth this book ; in the next place, there are
several clauses in that book which she it parti-
cularly charted with. Now that which the
evidence wilj prove, must be, first, that the
book was owned by her, and publubed by her ;
and then, that these particulars charged in the
indictment, were in the book ; and then you
will receive the directions of the Court, of what
nature the proofs are. Go on to the evidence,
that is your work, fall to your proof.
Mr. Dormer. My lord, 'we will call our wit-
nesses. William Downing, John Penny, and
Hubert Stevens. Who appeared and were sworn.
Mr: Dormer. Will. Downing, Do you tell my
lord aod the jury what you know of the print-
ing of this libel (shew him the libel), and who
brought the sheets to the press.
Downing. My lord, about the 33d er 33d
of August— -
Baron Weston. Begin with Penny first.
Pray what say you to that book ?
Mr. Penny. My lord, I was bid to buy a
book of that gentlewoman, and I did so. I
asked for her by her name.
Bar. Weston. By what name ?
Penny. Mrs. Cellier.
Bar. Weston. Is that the gentlewoman?
Penny. Yes, that is the gentlewoman. And
•be came out to me, and asked what my errand
was? I told ber it was to have a book: that
you may have, said she, if you please. Madam,
•aid I, what is the price ? two shillings, said
•he. Cannot I have them cheaper, said I, no,
•aid sbe, I sell them to shopkeepers for 18
•billings a dozen, and I must not sell them
under here. With that she fetched me a book,
and I gave her two shillings, and when* she had
done, she gave me another little paper.
Bar. Weston. That is not in issue, nor your
question now. Did you ask her for the book
she published and set out ?
Penny. Yes j and she did acknowledge that
was her book.
Bar. Weston. What ! she did own the book
•be sold you to be hers ?
Penny. This is the book I have in my hand,
and I marked every sheet of it ; and sbe told
me there was another little sheet to be added
to it ; and if any gentleman pleased to send it
into the country, that might be put up in a
letter to send by the post.
Cellier. May I ask him a question ?
Bar. Weston. Tell me your question, and I
will ask it.
Collier. I desire to know if I said any more,
thao,you may have a book, or there is a book.
And who asked for a book ?
Bar. Weston. Did site say any more than,
Jou may hare a book, or, this is (be book that
have published ?
Penny. When I got the' book and paid for
it, I turned about again and asked her if it was
ber own? she told me it was; and more than
that, if occasion were, she could have put
more in it.
Bar. Weston. Why, Mrs. Cellier, you did
not deny this book yesterday ; for you may re-
member when you did say you wanted your
witnesses, and if you could but have time to
bring them, you would prove the truth of it :
we told you you had nothing to prove on this
issue of Not Guilty, but that somebody else did
publish the book, and you did not. You
owned you writ it yourself every word with
your own hand.
Cellier. My lord, if I was a foolish vain wo-
man, and did seem to speak some vain words
about myself which I did not understand the
consequence of, I hope a word vainly spoke by
me shall not be brought against me to convict
me of a crime.
Bar. Weston. Mrs. Cellier, you do not seem
so negligent about yourself, that we may not
believe what you say of yourself.
Cellier. But vain foolish words spoke in that
nature, I hope shall be no evidence against
me.
Bar. Weston. But, however, it is proved
against you.
Cellier. Did I say I writ it ?
Penny. You told me that was your book,
Cellier. I told you ? pray, my lord, put one
3uestion to him upon the oath he hath taken :
id I say any more, than it was mine, and I
sold it ? not that I writ it, or was the author
of it?
Bar. Weston. Mrs. Cellier, this is a book
that is intitled with your name, and sold by
yourself. Now in any one's judgment, this is
both an owning of the book, and publishing of
the book. When you sold it, you gave it out
as your book, and it hath in the title page your
name as the author of it.
Cellier. My lord, if I could have produced
my witnesses, I could have made my defence ;
they have been at several places for them,
they have been all about town, and several
ways, at sir Joseph Sheldon's, and a great many
other places, and can find none of them.
Bar. Weston. To what purpose should your
witnesses come ?
Cellier. I should with then have made my
defence.
Bar. Weston. If y on would have said to oj
1191] STATE TRIALS, $2 Chablbs II. 1680.— TYialqf EteabtA CeUicr, [1193
%
yesterday, that you had witnesses to prove that
any one else writ the book, we would have put
off the trial. But you said you writ it every
word of it yourself and so owned the issue :
But now you pretend you want witnesses ; to
what purpose would you have them come ?
Cellier. It is not the honour of the bench,
mv lord, to t give evidence; and I hope you
will not take that advantage of my vain
words.
Bar. Weston, It is the honour of the bench
to repeat what you say ; when you ask time to
put off your trial, and the court gives you di-
rection to -what purpose witnesses may be used,
and you renounce that, and take the fact upon
yourself.
Cellier. But I hope that is uo evidence.
Bar. Weston. It was- spoke openly in the
court, every body heard it.
Cellier. I am surprized, and have no wit-
nesses.
. Bar. Weston. It is easy to pretend that you
want witnesses; but to what purpose would
you have them ? •
Cellier. My lord, I hope you will please to
remember he swears, I only said it was mine,
not that I was the author.
Att. Gen. (Sir C res well Levins). If you sold
it, that is a publishing in law, and is within the
indictment.
Cellier. But he did not say I writ it.
Bar. Weston. Pray, Mrs. Cellier, do not
trust yourself upon that: for he said, after he
bad it, he asked you, is this your book ? you
•aid, yes, it is my book ; and if I bad been
aware, I could have put a great deal more in it
than I have done.
Cellier. But I did not say I writ it.
Penny. You said, if it were to be writ again,
you could put more in it.
Cellier. I said it was my book ; and so it
was, because it was in my possession ; but not
that I writ it. This is my fan, but it does not
follow that I made it.
Bar. Weston. But the question was concern-
ing the author of the book.
Cellier. tie did ask me no such question.
Did you ask me if I was the author?
Penny. No, I did not.
Bar. Weston. But what did you ask her?
Penny. I asked ber4 whether it were her
book?
Bar. Weston. And did she own it ?
Penny. Yes, she did.
Cellier. So it was mine in possession.
^ Bar. Weston. Did you menu by your ques-
tion, Whether that book was her's in property
or she were the author and publisher of it ?
Penny. I would know whether it was her's
or no.
Bar. Weston. But what was your intention in
asking ? Was it whether she, or any other per-
son made it ?
Penny. 1 don't know who made it, she told
me it was her's. .
Bar. Weston. But what was your meaning
in it?
Penny. My intention was, for fear she should
have given me some other book, to know whs*
ther it was writ by her or no. .
Cellier. My lord, I am not to be judged by
bis meaning ; but by his question and my tn-
swer. i
Att. Gen. Did she tell you she sold more of
them?
Penny. I turned about when I bad tbe book
and said I, can I have, if occasion be, uj
more ? She said she bad but four or nrs bos-
dred left, and in a few days she should haw,
more.
Att. Gen. You told us, she told yoa whit
she sold them for by the dozen.
Penny. Yes, 18*. the dozen to tbe shop-
keepers.
Bar. Weston. Then set up Downing. [Which
was done.] Pray look upon that boek and the
title of it. [Which he did.] Have you ex*
mined that book ?
Mr. Downing. Sir, I printed part of it.
Bar. Weston. But have you examined mtr
very pamphlet ?
Downing. Yes, I know it very well.
Bar. Weston. Did you print part of it?
Downing . Yes, I did.
Bar. Weston. Who brought it to yon to hi
printed?
Downing. Mrs. Cellier.
Bar. Weston. She herself?
Downing. My lord, about the Md of August
a messenger came to me from Mrs. Cellier, to
tell me she had something to be printed ; sad
she sent for mg to her house, and I went to her
house in Arundel- buildings. She told me she
had a book to print, and it was her own cast.
I told- her I was a stranger to her concern*; if
there was nothing in it that was.offeniiw^I
would print it. She told me there was no-
thing but tbe truth, and I might safely do rt.
She said, she bad been publicly and wrongfully
abused, and was resolved to publish her out,
and would make the world sensible of the wrong
she had sustained. I was apt, upon the plssn-
bieness of her discourse, to believe her; sw
so I agreed with her to have IQf. a ream for
printing, and I was to print four ream of e»ery
sheet. And having printed half the book, tl*
messenger found it a-printiog at my b^j
and having thus found out the press, be carried
it before the secretary sir Leoliue Jenkins, who
granted a warrant to bring us both before him;
and1 having taken our examinations, we «ers
bound to appear before the privy co.uOC"»^
soon as notice should be given us of it : A°°
* bound
ed the other half of her book at some otbec
place. And whereas she promised to ineVmwty
me from all trouble and charge, when * *att,
to pay the clerk of the council his fees, *^*/j
fused to pay thorn for me, and told me * hafl
betrayed her ; and so notwithstanding "*<J?°!
mi*e, I was obliged to pay the fees np** *
the council
1193] STATE TRIALS, 32Chables II. 1680.— Jbr wriing ontLpublitlmg a Libel. [1104
Mr. Dormer. Pray, sir, who was it corrected
tbe sheets I „
Downing. Sir, tbey were brought to her.
Mr. Dormer, Did she read them and correct
them r
Downing. Yes, she looked over them.
Bar. Weston. Pray tell me how far it was
you printed of the book ?
Downing. It was to folio 92.
Bar. Weston. All tbe clauses in the indict*
ment are contained in those pages. I
Mr. Clare. All hut the last in the postscript.
Bar. Wetton. Have you read it over since ?
Downing. So far, my lord, I did print.
Bar. Wetton. You take it upon your oath, that
to the 22d folio of that book that was given in
evidence, was printed by you by her direction.
Downing. Yes, I do.
Bar. Weston. Then set up Stevens. [Which
was done.]
Mr. Stevens. May it please your lordship, I
saw this book a printing at Mr. Downing'*, and
reading some passages in it, I asked him, Mr.
Downing, do you know what you do ? He said
it is a truth : Then I asked him who he did it
for; he said he did it for Mrs. Cellier. I bid him
have a care that he did no more than what he
could justify; tie desired me that I would not
hurt him, and I was lothe to do a poor man wrong,
but away I went to the secretary ; but I asked
bim before, what was become of the sheets ?
He said tie carried them to Mrs. Cellier ; said
1, did she bring you tbe copy ? Said he, she
sent it sometimes by one messenger, some-
times by another, for she sent several : And
when I came to her, she did tell me it was her
book, and that she kept a man to write it, and
she dictated it to another that sat by her ; and
she often owned it was her book, and she the
author of it.
Cellier. I never said so in my life.
Stevens. Mrs. Cellier, by the same token
when you sent for bail you had occasion to
write a note, and I saw you write it, and said,
I now find it is none of your hand-writing, by
the difference between the note and the copy :
said she, I know that well enough ; but I keep
• man in the house to write it, and I dictated
ft> him, and he wrote. And I have seen there
one Grange and one Sing.; but Grange hath
come co me several times about her's and other
business, and she did tell me, she did dictate the
book to that man, and paid him for writing it.
Says she, I am up very early every morning
and preparing and dictating things for the press.
She hatn put out two sheets since, and this day
at one o'clock she hath invited the Mercuries
and tbe Hawkers to come and receive a new
pamphlet.
-Bar. Weston. Do you know her handwriting ?
Stevens. I have not that note by me.
Bar. Weston. Did you see the copy ?
Stevens. Some part of it I did see.
Bar. Weston. Was any part ofit her hand-
writing?
Stevens. No, I believe .it was none of'her
band.
Bar. Weston. Was it several hands?
Stevens. I saw but one part of tbe copy, and,
that was all of one hand, but not her's, I
believe. She said she kept a man to write. it*
and she had several other things to write to be
printed.
Bar. Weston. Did she ever before affirm her-
self to be the author of the book?
Stevens* She did (if it please you) before the
secretary and before the council; and said she
would answer it. And I have seen her likewise
sell several of them several days. ,
Mr. Dormer. Did she deliver any of these
books that you know of?
Stevens. I have seen her deliver them out
several times before me myself, she can't den/'
it*
Bar. Weston. Compare tbe book with the inr
dictment.
Mr. Dormtf. Swear Mr. Fowler. [Which
was done.]
Bar. Weston. What is that Fowler ?
Mr. Dormtr. Shew him the book, if you
please. [Which was done.] Did you buy any
of those books of Mrs. Cellier ?
Fowler. I bought two of them. I went to
her liouse, and told her I had a letter frotn a
friend out of Oxfordshire, that desired me to
buy two of her books.
Mr. Dormer. Is that the same in your hand f
Fowler. It is the same, as I believe. Some
friends came to my house, and told me they had
seen me notoriously in print; so I cjrme to < her
and told her I had a letter out of Oxfordshire for
a book or two of her's. Sir, says .she* I will fetch
you one presently ; she comes again, wjxh $em*
Madam, says 1, 1 believe you hare forgotten
me.
Cellier. I know you not; J never saw. ym
in my life before.
Fowler. No, I believe not; butyet youioi44
put me in your book.
Bar. Weston. Why, what is your name ?
Fowler. My name is fowler.
Bar. Weston. Where do you live.
Fowler. At the Half^Moon Xavwn in Cheat>
side, when I am at home.
Cellier. Your name is not in the book.
Mr. Clare. There is one JF. that keeps tim
Half-Moon tavern in £heaneide.
Bar. Western. Yon swear you bad two hspfcs
of her ?
Fowler. Yes. J^adam says J, I see jk>h ant
full of business ; .so I paid 4*. for UttfP, <fW4f)
away I came.
Mr. Dormer. Then you had ne dUcensss
with her farther who was the author,, bad yon*
Fowler. No, not a, syllable farther. I bad
only occasion to get a couple of hooks ; iojf
some persons of quality had been at roy.bonse,
and told me my name was in it, an4 went
pleased to joke with meaboutit,** jM^kularlj*
Mr. Henry Jftllegruw came one day to my home
and called me into the rood*, says he, pop asp
notoriously in print, endknonn io.be .coefyian*
for a. great duke., and {great lotds; you «h*U
<hunk*^Uesof ^ine now m\b&$,
1 195] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— THo/ qfElhabcth CeMer, [ 1 1 96
me the story ; and thereupon I went to her
house to buy a couple of books.
Att. Gen. You are the roan meant by the
Fowl
tier. I keep the Half-Moon in Cheapside.
Att. Gen. There is something supposed in
this book to be done by you at your going to
a man iu prison, is that true ?
Fowler. That I suppose is cleared by an oath
from Corral the coachman ; but withal, I
gave my oath for it before my lord-mayor my-
self.
Att. Gen. Pray, for the satisfaction of peo-
ple, tell us what you know of the matter.
Fowler. The substance df my oath before my
lord-mayor was this: That I never was with
any great people, as they tax me, in my life,
with any great duke or lord : That I never did
tee any of the things that they say there, that
the duke should draw bis sword, and a lord
Srofier 500/. or I whisper to the coachman, That
e should name some great persons, and then
lie and I should have money enough.
Bar. Weston. But I come nearer to you with
a question, Mr. Fowler.
' Fowler. Yes, my lord, if you please.
Bar. Weston. Was one Corral a coachmau
apprehended for carrying away the dead body
of sir £. Godfrey, at your motion and accusa-
tion?
Fowler. As to that, I will tell you the occa-
sion of all our discourse, if it may not be too
tedious. Upon the death of sir E. Godfrey, a
coachman was one day called to carry some
gentlemen that were in my house ; but they
staying a little longer than ordinary, he went
away, and, as they say, dropped tbem ; there-
upon another coachman was called, which was
Chit Corral mentioned in this libel, and he went
up to the gentlemen mto the room, and they,
to engage him to stay, secured his whip ; he
comes dew u and begs a pipe of tobacco of my
wife in the bar: Ay, said she, thou lookest like
a good honest fellow, and I believe thou hast
no hand in the plot (a casual word that was
passant at that time) ; whereupon he begins to
tell her, it is very well fur him, for he had
escaped that danger: Four of them meeting
him against St. Clement's chorch-wall, and
•wearing damn them be should stand, and do
as they would have him ; and he saw four, and
he saw sir £. Godfrey's body in a sedan, and
be shammed, upon them that he could not
carry him, for that the axletree of his coach
was broke. I was in a room by the bar, and J
overheard the fellow talk after this rate. I
came out, and asked him, said I, Are you sure
of this? Then he tells me the same story over
again; wherefore I began to ask him, if he
were master tor himself, or drove for another ;
the fellow being sensible he had been too lavish
in his discourse, pretends to light his pipe in
Kaste, and to run out to see whether the seats
of his coach were not stolen out, and I took a
candle with me, and went after him to take the
number of his coach : By that time I got to the
door, ha was driving away, though he had left
his whip with the gentleman as security for his
stay. I came in, set down die number of his
coach in my book, and drew up the substance
of their discourse that happened between my
wife and him ; and I was' saying to my wife, I
had a mind to stop this fellow at the gate j but
it rained, and to I did not, only kept the num~
ber of his coach. The next day captain
Richardson and the Secondary of the Compter
were drinking a gla*» of wine at my bouse,
where I told them the story, and they blamed
me that I had not stopped him. Whereupon
capt. Richardson took the number of his coach,
and the next day sent his Janizaries abroad,
and secured him, and kept him in custody for
two or three days.
Baren Weston. When was this?
Fowler. Two or three days after the murder
was publicly known of: I think it was Tuesday
night that this fellow told me the story, to the
best of my remembrance; and the next day I
told the captain and the Secondary.
Baron Weston. Was that the next Tuesday
after the murder, or the Tuesday seven night?
Fowler. It was the Tuesday se\ en-night
after. They blamed me very much that I did
not stop the fellow: I told them how the thing
was, and the captain sent his people abroad,
aud took the coachman up by what marks I
gave of him. The next day I was ordered to
wait upon the lords at Wallingford-bouse, where
was the duke of Buckingham, my lord Shaftes-
bury, the marquis of Winchester, two other
lords, and major Wildman the secretary;
whereby they examined me upon this thing,
and what I have declared to your lordships, I
declared then. And they brought the fellow in
face to face; and there he does confess the
whole matter, and made a great whining and
clutter, that John Socb-a-one, a coachman,
aud Mrs. Such-a-one, a strong- water woman,
told him this, and that, and the other. The
lords sent for two of the persons he named, and
both of them being brought before tbem, the
lords were very welt satisfied, in that one of them
keeps a victualling-house, and they were both
of good reputation, they were satisfied it was
only a sham, and that be only named them as
the first persons that came into his mind.
Getting nothing out of him, mv lord duke of
Buckingham told him, Sirrah, if you will con*
fess, there shall be nothing of what the king
hath promised but it shall be made good to
you, you shall be. sure of it; and you shall be
protected. My lord Shaftesbury told him the
same; but withal, if he would not confess, and
tell him who set him on work, then nothing
should be severe enough for him ; or words to
that effect.
Baron Weston. Upon this accusation was he
sent to prison?
Fowler. He was re-ordered to prison, and
there continued several months.
Baron Weston. Where? To what prison?
Fowler. To Newgate.
Baron Weston. Were you ever in Newgate,
and saw him?
1197] STATE TRIALS, 32 Citailks II. 1690.— for writing and publishing a Libel [1199
Fowler. Never, not I.
Baron Weston. Did you never see him bat
at this chamber with the lords, and at your own
Ulvern ?
Fowler. Never.
Baron Weston. And you never were in New-
gate in Your life with him ?
Fowler, No, not I.
Baron Weston. Were you ever in Newgate
with him with my lord duke of Buckingham,
or my lord Shaftesbury, or any other lord r
Fowler. No.
Baron Weston, Or any other duke what-
soever?— Fowler, No.
Baron Weston. Or any lord or nobleman
whatsoever ?
Fowler. No, except four years ago with my
lord Petre.
Baron Weston. There is no danger of him.
'Bat as to this affair, Were you ever with any ?
Fowler. No.
Baron Weston. Did you see any sword drawn,
or nfeney offered ?
Fowler. There waa^never a sword drawn, nor
money offered.
Att. Gen. Did you ever see 500/. laid down
upon a table ?
Fowler. There was never any sword drawn,
nor money laid down.
Baron Weston. He answers that very fully;
for he says he was never in Newgate with any
nobleman, but once with my lord Petre 4 years
age ; and if he was with any nobleman, he is
accused to be there in the presence of a duke,
and another great earl; and that the duke
drew his sword, and the other nobleman laid
dowo a great deal of gold, which be said did
amount to 500/. . and told him it should be his,
and that if he-would accuse some other persons,
they would maintain him ; and then he did
draw the fellow aside and tall him, Cannot you
name somebody ? Then you and I may have
money enough. This is the accusation of the
book : But now it is denied *th at ever he was in
Newgate with any such persons, which is con-
sequently a denial of the whole charge.
Cellicr. I did not write that this was true,
but I writ that the fellow told me so.
Baron Weston. We will see that in the book
in the first place. We have examined this
thing by the by, and though it is a little out of
the way, yet it may be satisfactory : Read the
book.
CI. ofCr. « Malice defeated," &c.
Baron Weston. Compare it with the record,
for she shall have a fair trial, by the grace of
God.
Then the several Clauses recited in the In-
dictment were read over again by the Clerk
out of the book, and compared by the judge
with the record.
Baron Westbn. These are the clauses in the
book that are proved exactly upon you. Now
I must tell you, because this book doth cast a
very great infamy upon our religion, and on the
whole government) it ought to be taken notice
of : For in the first place, to contrive to -get a
man into prison, and by tortures to compel him
even to commit perjury : Theu to bale another
man to prisou, and have him thus barbarously
used, as to have nobles to come to him, one with
a sword drawn, another with money in bis band
laying it down as a temptation, and to force
him to discover what he was not willing to con-
fess; and then to lay accusation upon the king
that he makes it a thing of safety to be the
hangman's hounds, and to be accusers for pen*
sions; and shall aver, that when it is as free for
her to speak truth, as it is meritorious for them
to do otherwise, she will discover such and
such things ; is a slander that ought to receive a
public rebuke : And to satisfy the world of the
untruth of it, I would have you prove, if Prance
be here and the coachman, what usage they re*
ceived, to avert that public calumny that it cast
upon the nation. For let Mrs. Cellier know,
she hath insinuated, as though the murder of
the late king was a sufficient ground to pervert
her from protestantism, which avowed such
practices: When all the world knows, that at
that time there were protestants that were far
better subjects, and more loyal, than ever any
papist was in the world, and as great sufferers
for their opposition Jo that dreadful villainy,
nay, far mure than the papists can boast of
for their loyalty; whereas it is known there were
villains under-hand all the while, and those that
did encourage all that roguery, and set that
faction on foot which brought things to that ill
period they came to. Therefore you have set
a fair put side upon a damnable lie. And that
the ar ran test rebel liousest rogues that ever
lived under heaven, are great saints in com*
parison of protestants, no honest man will be*
lieve.
Cellier. I say, they called themselves pro*
testants. I know the protestants were great
sufferers for the king, and I myself felt it;
our family, which were protestants, were se-
veral times stript and plundered for their loyal*
ty. I grant all this.
Bar. Weston. Do you ? Then you are an '
impudent lying woman or you had a villainoua '
lying priest that instructed you to begin your
book «vith such a base insinuation against the
best of religions. But I have no more to say
to that ; for that is such a visible notorious
falsity to the knowledge of all Englishmen, and
people of understanding, that it needs no
greater conviction than the particular know-
ledge of chose men that lived in that time.
Therefore for that lie, let it go upon the pub-
lic infamy that attends on your party, who are
notorious liars, and among whom faishood
does so much abound. Call Corral and
Prance.
Att. Gen. We will give that satisfaction to
the people: but the jury are to know that-
it does not at all concern the matter in issue,
for when all that can be said by them is deolar*
ed, I must say, in point of law, the publishing
of a libel, though it be true, yet is a crime, and
deserves punishment.
ItOb] STATE TRIALS, 92 CflAius n. \6*0— Trial tfEihobtih CcUkr, [130O
Bur. Weston. I fold you so. But, Mr. At tor- 1
neyy we«re to jet « fine; end to instruct as
ibritjie*sevtmg of the fine, it will be n satisfac-
tion to the court to disprove the things 'she
awadgeft,* if you hare the witnesses ready ; but
if>yeu are not ready with your proof, let it
alone. * ,
-Att.Gen. They are ordered to be here. I
onlyepeaktbet by the way. Swear Mr. Prance
[Whioh was dene.l
Bar. Weiton. Mr. Prance, pray, were you
tortured in prison P
Mr. trance. No, I never saw any such
tbing iivaiy life.
Bar. Weston. How were you used ?
Prance. Very well ; I had every thing that
ww fitting, captain Richardson did take great
care of me.
Bar. Weston. The troth is, the very book
itself implies a contradiction. It says there
was one tortured in the prison, and the roarings
that they beard were like the roarings of a
strong man in torture : and yet presently after
it jays, that the prisoner conies up in irons and
iee&ammed. Now could any one having been
so Uttty on the rack, be able to walk and come
to fee examined ? Any man that knows what
the nature of a rack is, dtnows also, that one
that4ias been tortured there, would not be able
to heave the irons upon' his legs, nor be able
to stir or walk ; but that is a thing not used
amongst us, it was some impudent lying priest
durst venture to broach such a calumny.
Cellier. I do not say it was, but it was re-
ported.
Mr. Prune. Dr. Lloyd was with me many
times for ha! fan hoar together, and If any such
thing had 'been,- he would have seen it.
Then Francis Corral was called, but he did
not appear.
•
. Cftpt; Richardson. Corral they have got
away ; for I 'had aim last night, and he was or-
dered to be here to day, but here is bis wife.
[Who was sworn.]
.Bar. Weston. Good -woman, were you ever
with* your husband in prison ?
Mrs, Corral, I was not suffered to come near
trim when he was of the master's- wde.
. Bar. Weston. But when he was out of prison
how did he tell you he was used ? Did ne tell
you he was compelled to drink his own piss ?
Mrs. Corral. Sunday morning it was before
I- saw him ; nay, I did not see him then, but I
was called • to bring him victuals, or he would
haveotarved ; nay, they say he would be dead
before I bsqugbt biro. So l carried him bread
and things, and I did not see htm then till
almost** fortnight after: and when I saw him
be had great fetters on, and I was amazed at
tbens. They put in some charcoal therje to
warm him* it being very cold ; and, said I, Lord,
what have you done? You have murdered
somebody, sore ? but they said, they put on
those things to keep his legs warm.
Collier, Were you ever beaten at any time
for bringing your husband victuals ?
1
Mrs. Corral. No indeed, I was never beaten,
but they would not suffer me to see bins oo the
mastero-side.
Lord-Mayor. Her husband hath denied aU
upop oath before me.
Bar. Weston. Was be ever hurt with screws,
or any such thing ?
Cellier. Had he not holes in his legs ?
Mrs. Corral. Yes, he had a great many ; I
did see holes in his legs.
Bar. Weston. Did you ?
Mrs. Corral. I did see one, and lean brisg
thetn that brought salve to heal it.
Capt. Richardson. There is never an iron
in the house that I keep, -that weighs twelve
pound.
Bar. Weston. They say you have irons called
sheers, that weigh forty pound.
Capt. Richardson. If there be one, I will be
hanged for it before I go hence.
Cellier. I hope I shall be allowed to make
my defence, and eatl my witnesses.
Bar. Weston. Yes, to be sure. • *
Cellier. Did not you bear your husband tefl
me how heavily he was fettered and used ?
that he was chained to the floor, with a chain
not above a yard long; and was forced to
drink his own water ?
Mrs. Corral. Madam, be is not sensible
many times what be does say.
Cellier. But did not you hear him tell mew?
Mrs. Corral. I cannot remember.
Cellier. Did not you tell me, that capt. Rich-
ardson drove you away, and would net let yea
.give victuals to your husband ?
Bar. Weston. All this is but over and above,
for the great matter that sticks upon your part
is, the death of sir E. Godfrey, and you are
pinched^here with Prance's evidence ; and so
you would make the world believe that be wis
.tortured into his confession, and was mad when
he did it, that you may the better turn it off
from your own party, on somebody else, on
whom I do not know.
Cellier. Pray, my lord, hear roe one word :
ns to your saying, I do it to defend a party,!
profess I stand singly and alone ; I have been
so barbarously used by those you call that
party, that the protestants have been abun-
dantly more kind to me than they. And I
would not tell the least lie to do them any good
turn.
Bar. Weston. Theu you are an happy woman
indeed, that are beloved by both parties; you
have not been serviceable alike to 'both,! am
sure, but that is no great matter; if so be the
protestants were so kind, you have requited
them ill by such a base libel.
Cellier. I say nothing against them.
Bar. Weston. Can you say any tbing that yos
did not make this pamphlet ?
Cellier. My lord, I be not bound to accuse
myself, I desire it may be proved.
Bar. Weston. I think it n fully proved. *
Cellier. I cannot say any thing without «y
witnesses, I desire I may call them.
Bar. Weston. Call whom you wul
1901] STATE TRIALS, 52 ChaelbsH. I680.—J&r writing and publishing « Libel [120»
Cellier. I desire George Grange may be call-
ed. [Who was sworn.]
Bar. Weston. What can you say for Mrs,
Cellier ? Tell me what questions you will ask
him.
Cellier. I desire to know whether I did not
send him to find witnesses ? Who he went for ?
What answers they returned? And where
they be ?
Bar. Weston. Well, what witnesses were you
sent to look for ?
Grange. I went to look for one Mrs. Sheldon
that li?ea in sir Joseph Sheldon's house, and
they told me she was in Essex. I went to the
coach to send for her.
Bar. Weston. Why Scroggin looked for his
knife on the house top.
Mr. Stevens. This man did see her sell these
books. «
Bar. Weston. Who did you look for besides ?
Grange. One Mr. Curtis. And his wife said,
she had not seen hin> since yesterday morning ?
Bar. Weston. What were they to prove ?
Grange. Truly, my lord, I do not know.
Mr. Dormer. By the oath you have taken,
do you know fbe hath sold any of these books?
Grange. Yea, I do know thai she hath sold
some of them.
Lord Mayor. There, your own witness, Mrs.
Cellier, proves it agaiost you.
Bar. Weston. Who would you have else ?
Cellier. I desire that Mary Smith may be
called (which was done, but she appeared
not then). I desire John Clarke may be sent
tor from the Gaol.
Capt. Richardson. He is in execution.
Bar. Weston. For what?
Capt Richardson. For debt.
Bar. Weston. Jt is not out of the rules of the
prison ; you may bring him hither, and it is no
escape.
Capt. Richardson. If your lordship orders it
so, I will bring him.
Lord Mayor. She should have brought an
Habeaa Corpus, if she would have had him.
Alt. Gen. He must bring him through some
part, I suppose, that is not within the rules,
and then it will be an escape. ,
Cellier. I pray an Habeas Corpus to fetch
him.
Bar. Weston. You might have had one be-
fore.
Cellier. This is all because I had no time to
prepare for my defence. -
Bar. Weston. You might have moved the
court for ijt ; they granted you a copy of your
indictment.
Cellier. I had it not till nine o'clock to day,
and my counsel could not inspect it, nor speak
a word with me about it.
Lord Mayor. At what time shall we have
done, if we dally after this rate ?
Baron Weston. Have you any blank Habeas
Corpus?
CL qf Fence. It could not be sealed, and be-
sides, they should fetch it out of the crown-
office.
Vol. vii.
Cellier. I desire to have him come, in order*
to the defence of something in my book.
Bar. Weston. What would he prove ?
- Cellier. That I have not belied the govern-
ment.
Bar. Weston. In what?
Cellier. That he was sheered with long sheers,
and unreasonable irons.
Mr. Collins. You cannot do yourself greater
wrong than by such talk as this.
Lord Mayor. You are not indicted for your
whole book, but for some part of it.
Cryer. Here is Mrs. Smith now. [Who
was sworn.]
Cellier, What have you heard Corral the
coachman say, about his usage in prison ?
Mr. Dormer. I think that question is not to.
be admitted.
Bar. Weston. What is it you would have her
asked?
Cellier. What she heard the coachman say
for I only say he told me so.
Mr. Dormer. I am in your lordship's judg-
ment, I think it is not evidence.
Ait. Gen. She keeps the coachman away,
and now will tell you what he said.
Bar. Weston. That is no evidence, for the
coachman might have been here, if you had
not sent him away.
Cellier. Let his wife speak that, because she;
can testify I did not send him away.
Capt. Richardson. She gave them money
before, and told them she would maintain
them.
Cellier. You are not an evidence against me,
you are not sworn.
Capt. Richardson. But this that I say is
sworn.
Bar. Weston. Call her.
Alt. Gen. Ask her a proper question to tha
issue,
Cellier. I would know of her, whether I kept
her husband away ?
Ait. Gen. It may be, you did it without he*
knowledge?
Cellier. Have I seen her husband without
her knowledge ?
Bar. Weston. Go on with your witnesses.
Cellier. I desire Mary Johnson may ha
called.
Bar. Weston. For what? what will she
prove?
Cellier. That she was to see for witnesses in
order to my defence.
Bar. Weston. But if they are not come, what
signifies that ?
Cellier. I have done then, my lord ; for not
having time to get my witnesses, I cannot make
my defence so fully, as else I should have done :
only I desire you to consider I nm a poor igno-
rant woman, and have erred out of ignorance :
I thought nothing, but that I might publish
what others had said and told me ; and so I
have offended in ignorance if I have offended.
Bar. Weston. I do' verily believe there are
more wits than yours concerned in this book ;
though you bear the name, yet the book is not
4H
1903] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1(580.— Trial tf Elizabeth CclUcr, [1904
the effect of your wit only, but you acknow-
ledge enough. And you are to take notice,
that the king hath set out a proclamation, that
uo books shall be printed without a license.
Cellier. I never heard k. I was under close
confinement when the king set it out.
Bar. Weston. No, I deny that; for you were
enlarged the first day of Trinity- term, and the
proclamation came out towards the end.
Att. Gen. She now does confess she knows
of it, because she speaks of the time, and that
was before her book was written.
Cellier. May not ray counsel speak for me ?
I desire you would hear him.
Mr. Collins. I have nothing to say for her.
Bar. Weston. He says, he hath nothing to
fay for you.
Mr. Collins. And if you had said less for
yourself, it had been better.
Bar. Weston. The question is but Guilty or
Not Guilty ? whether you published this libel or
not? and if the matter of the indictment be
proved, what can counsel say, except you can
disprove the witnesses, that you did not the
fact?
Cellier. Well, my lord, then I beseech you
consider me, I am a woman, and deal with me
in- mercy, as well as justice.
Bar. Weston. Mrs. Cellier, I have not been
noted to be a person that use any great seve-
rity towards any body, no not towards any of
your party ; but when I see so much malice as
is comprized in your book, and have reason to
suspect that this is not acted only by you,
though you bear the name of it, but some of
jour wicked priests are the authors of it, as I am
•ore they are ; then I think it is not severe,
that you, who stand at the stake for all, must
bear the blame of all. If you will tell us who
it was that set you on work, and assisted you in
this wicked business, that will be something to-
wards the mitigation of vour fine; but if you
will take it on yourself, you must suffer the
consequence.
CelLer. I beseech you, my lord, have some
compassion ; his majesty acknowledged before
the council, that I had suffered for him; I ven-
tured my life through a sea and an army to
serve him ; I lost my father and my brother
both in a day for him ; and if you have no com-
passion for me, have some commiseration for
my loyal parents that lost their estates for him.
/ Bar. Weston, If you have done service for
his majesty, and thereby deserved any thing of
him, his majesty Irnth been so bountiful in the
dispensation of his favour, that he would not
toil to recompense you for it ; but we are- to
proceed according to the roles of law,
Cellier. But pray have some mercy in your
justice.
Bar. Weston. Gentlemen of the jury, this
gentlewoman the prisoner stands indicted—
. Jury. We have not heard one word that hath
been said.
Bar. Weston. No ! that k strange ; I will
acquaint you with as much of the evidence as
falls under my information ; it had been well
I
if you had told ns this before : the busii
is this, she stands indicted here for writing
publishing of a very scandalous libel. Bat
pray did not you hear Penny prove that ana
sold it.
Jury. We heard the three first witnesses.
Att. Gen. There was the proof of Che fact.
Baron Weston. The rest^f the evidence was
but a comparison of the clauses in the book
with those in the indictment, which you are to
have direction from the court in, that they dot
She stands indicted for publishing a libel, and
the title oftbenbel is, " Malice Defeated, or, a
brief relation- of the accusation and deliverance
of Elizabeth Cellier." Now this libel branches
itself out into several parts ; the first whereof
is a very fine insinuation, as though her leaving
the protestant religion was, because those that
murdered the king, and made that very great
subversion that was made in the government
by the late Long Parliament, end the army that
succeeded chem, were protestants——
" Cellier. Pray, my lord, I say, caUed protes-
tants.
Baron Weston. By your favour, she pretends
it was by those that were called protestants;
but if they were only those that were called
protestants, and not protestants, what reason
bad she to go off from the protestant religion,
to turn papist, when there was such a body of
loyal protestants that did adhere to the loyal
party r Therefore that was as villainous an in-
sinuation* as could be; as though the protestaat
religion did nourish and teach seditions princi-
ples, which in the consequence of them tended
towards the subversion of the government and
order, which certainly it does cherish in the
highest degree of any religion in the world, and
hath the most peaceable principles in nutters
of duty, both m subjection to our superior?,
and of a charitable deportment of men one
towards another: And the practice of those
principles hath been seen amongst protestants,
especially amongst the English protestants, as
much as any nation in the world ; this may be
said of it to this day, for the reputation of the
English nation, that there is more fidelity,
honesty, and generous trust amongst them, than
among all the nations of the world besides; so
that if a man were to go out of £ogland to any
other part of the world, he might well use the
words of Demosthenes; upon his going oot of
Athens, at his banishment; " Farewell, belov-
ed city, I am going into a world where I shall
not find such friends as I have had enemies
here." Friends in other places wilt be no bet*
ter than our enemies here ; the carriage of En-
glishmen is so much beyond all others, except
the Germans, who, J must confess, are famed
for their honesty and integrity one to another;
but if you take the French, the Italian,' the
Spaniard, or any sort of the Levantine people,
they live like so many wolves, especially in
those places where the popish religion is pro-
fessed. Now after this insinuation, there is
another part of the book recked in the indict*
meat, There was an hot rid barbarous murder
1205] STATE TRIALS, .12 Chahles II. 1680.--jbrxurkingandpubUshingaLibcL [190$
that was committed her*, and which certainly
did fix the accusation of the pint fuller upon
them than all the evidence that was given be-
sides, the murder of sir E. Godfrey : A magis-
trate in doing his duty was most barbarously
murdered, and by whom is evidenced by one
Praunce: It hath been the whole labour of the
party, to cast this murder upon other persons,
and take it off themselves ; for they find if that
accusation sticks upon them, it is a thing of
so heinous a nature, that it will make the po-
pish party odious to all mankind. And there-
fore this they labour at mightily, and this task
-she hath taken on herself; for knowing
Praunce to be a principal witness, she under-
takes to let the world know, that Praunce was
tortured in prison, to insinuate, that the evi-
dence be gave against those persons that were
executed for this murder, was extorted from
him by ill and cruel usage. But you must first
know, the laws of the land do not admit a tor-
tare, and since queen Elizabeth's time there
hath been nothing of that kind ever done. The
truth is, indeed, in the 20th year of her reign,
Campion was just stretched upon the rack, but
yet not so bat that he could walk; but when
she was told it was against the law of the land
to have any of her subjects racked (though that
was an extraordinary case, a world of semina-
ries being sent over to contrive her death, and
she lived in continual danger), yet it was never
done after to any one, neither in her reign, who
reigned 25 years after, nor in king James's
reign, who reigned 22 years after; nor in king
Charles the first's reign, who reigned 24 years
after; and God in heaven knows that there
hath been no such thing offered in this king's
reign ; for I think we may say, we have rived
under as lawful and merciful a government as
any people whatsoever, and have had as little
blooa shed, and sanguinary executions as in
any nation under heaven. Well, but (contrary
to the law in this case), she does suppose ex-
traordinary ways were used to make Praunce
give this evidence. She says, she thought what
she first heard was the noise of a woman with
child, and that Harris the turnkey did tell her
it was a woman in labour ; but when she de-
sired to be let in to heJp her, he turned her
away rudely; but listening, she perceived it
was the groans of a strong man that must be
in torture : She asked some of the gaolers what
was the matter ? Tbey told her, They durst not
tell her, but it was something they could not
endure; and tbey heard him cry, What would
you have me confess ? would you have roe belie
myself? I know nothing of it ; and such words
as these. Whereupon we have called Praunce,
and here, upon his oath, he tells you there was
no such matter ; That he was used very kindly;
had all things' fitting, and under no compulsion,
to that this is an high libel against the govern-
ment. She says furthermore, there was one
Corral a coachman that was imprisoned by the
means of one Fowler for the murder of sir E.
Godfrey ; that there was a nobleman, a duke,
cane to jum in prison and drew bis sword at
him, and would have him confess', that another
nobleman laid down a sum of money, and said
it was five hundred pounds, and told him*,
if he would confess, he should have it; and
that Fowler took him aside; and bid him
lay it upon somebody else, and then he
and Fowler should have money enough. Fow-
, ler being examined, and upon his oath, tells
you upon what account he did charge Corral ;
be tells you, he was never with Corral in the
gaol in his life, and never was with him in the
presence of any duke or nobleman but once in
a room, where Corral was brought to be exa-
mined; and then there was the duke of Buck-
ingham, the marquis of Winchester (who I
never heard was a man of cruelty, or harsh
nature), my lord ShaTtsbury, and major Wild*
man, who was secretary; but there was no
such cruel usage there ; and he never was in
the prison with such noblemen ; and then the
consequence is, that the whole story is false.
Corral, it seems, my Lord-Mayor says, hath
been examined to this point, and denies it al^
and is kept out of the way, that he should not
give it in evidence here : But if we had him
here, it were no great matter ; for if there were
any thing of this nature true, they are to pro-
ceed in a legal way against them that make
these transgressions of the law; she ought to
have indicted the persons, for they are highly
Sunisbable for such extravagancies as these are.
lot there is nothing done in that kind ; but in-
stead of that, she hath defamed them all in a
libel ; and she is not contented to have done
that neither, for she hath defamed the king
highly in his government, and said, she could
have written more. I pass over the business
that concerns Dangerfield, wherein she com-
plains that Dangerfield had more friends, and
was visited more by persons of quality, when
she had none came to her; every one is visited
according to the interest they have in the
world, and the friends they make : I have no-
thing to say to that, there is not so much in it;
but come to that part wherein she scandalizes
the king, which is this; she says, " Whenever
his majesty shall please to make it as safe and
honourable to speak the truth, as it is apparent
it hath been gainful and meritorious to do the
contrary, their villainy will not want wit-
nesses to testify the truth of more than she had
written."
So that she supposes, that the king, by the
countenancing of lies, and giving pensions to
liars, choaks the truth, and makes it dangerous
for those that know the truth, to divulge it to
the world ; which is a very vile scancjal upon
the king and the government. These are the
matters of the libel, and the things in proof
have been sworn by three witnesses; one
proves, that he went to her to buy one of her
books, and he asked her for one, and she gave
him a book which bears that title-page that
you hear in theindictment,superschbed with her
name, and she gives it as her book. Now she
would evade it thus, that she gave it as ber's ,
not as though she were the author, but as if it
1307] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chablbs II. 1680.— 7Wa/ qf Elizabeth Ccllier, [1906
■were her's only. in property : but can any such
thing be thought the meaning of her words ?
Or can there oe any greater evidence that she
is the author of the book, than her publishing
of it with her name to it? But the fellow goes
further, and tells you, when lie had the book,
he turned about, and asked her, if it were her
book ? Yes, she said, it was : and, said she, I
could have writ a great deal more, if I would ;
so that her saying she could have writ more,
implies, that she writ that; and (more) is a
word of comparison which always supposes the
positive proposition. The next is the printer,
who tells you, that he primed the first 22 folios,
within which the greatest part of this charge,
except only that last about the king, is con-
tained. He tells you, that she sent for him,
and employed him to print it as tier's ; agreed
with him for 10s. a ream for the printing, and
thai he did print the first 22 leaves at her
request, and as employed by her : Fowler tells
you, he bought two of the books of her ; and
these are the witnesses of the publication of
this book. I must tell you this, the clauses in
the libel are truly set down in the indictment,
■for I did examine (hero oue by one. Now whe-
ther or no you can, doubt sbe was the author
of the book, when in a manner she did own it
at the publication, by selling it as her's, I leave
to you ; though I must tell you plainly, I leave
it as that which is to me under the notion of
express evidence ; but I must leave it to you
as Judges of the fact, and expect your verdict
in the case.
Attorney General. There are three things in
the indictment ; 1. That she writ it ; 2. That
sbe caused it to be printed ; and Sdly, That
she caused it to be published. Now if you find
any one of these, she is guilty of so much at
least, though I think you have heard evidence
enough for all. She told me it was her's and
said, she could have put more in ; and the
selling the book is a publication. So that if
you be not satisfied she was the author, yet if
you are satisfied sbe caused it to be printed ;
or if you are not satisfied in that, yet if you are
satisfied she caused it to be published, you are
so find her guilty of so much.
Cellitr. The printer does not say I writ it.
Alt. Gen. But he does say you gave it him
as your's, and to you the sheets were sent to be
■corrected.
Then the Jury desired they might have the
"book with them.
Mr. Clare. My lord, the jury wants the
book that was sworn to.
Bar. Weston. They can have no papers
without agreement, neither the books, nor any
paper eKe.
Att. Gen. Not unless she will consent to it.
Mrs. CeUier, will you consent that they shall
have the book out with them? To which, after
some pause, she answered, No.
Bar. Weston, Then they cannot hare it by
••
Then die Jury withdrew for a little, and
returned.
CI. ofCr. How say you, is Elizabeth Cellier
Guilty of the writing, priuting, and publishing
of the libel for which sbe stands indicted, or
Not Guilty ?
Foreman. Guilty. (At which there was a
great shout.) And the verdict was recorded.
Bar. Weston. She must stand commuted to
receive the judgment of the court.
Ccllier. Willyou give me leave to speak a
word now ?
Bar. Weston. I cannot give you any judg-
ment, for by the custom of the city, that is to
be done by the recorder or his deputy ; and so,
what you will say to the court, you mast say to
them; that will be on Mopday when the sessions
is done.
Ccllier. What I would say is only tins, that
I am a woman, and wherein I offended, I
offended out of ignorance, and did not know
it was an offence ; and if the offence be mine,
let not others suffer for me. Have mercy ia
judgment; and consider my loyal parents and
relations, and the services they did his ma-
jesty ; and let this fault be wiped out by that
service and duty I and they paid him ; or at
least-wise, let the punishment of this offence be
mitigated, io consideration that all mv life, ever
since I had the first use of reason, I have been
a loyal subject.
Bar. Weston. These are things that will* be
considered on Monday, but we cannot take
consideration of it now.
Ccllier. I will go away then, and come again
on Monday.
Bar. Weston. No, you are to be commttted
till then.
And so the keeper carried her back to New-
gate; from whence on Monday the 13th of
September, she was brought to the bar to re-
ceive her Judgment, which Mr. Recorder gave
thus c
Mr. Recorder. (Sir George Jefferies.) Mrs.
Cellier, the court doth think fit, for example
sake, that a fine of 1,000/. be put upon you ;
that you be committed in execution till that
thousand pounds be paid : and because a pe-
cuniary mulct is not a sufficient recompence to
justice, which you have offended, the Court
doth likewise pronounce against you, That yon
be put on* the pillory three several dny% m
three several public places : in the first place,
in regard her braided ware received its first
impression and vent at her own house, it is
* The King against Bowers.
By Holt, Chief Justice, to stand in the pil-
lory, or on the pillory, is the same thing ia
judgment, and both signify to stand tn the
pillory : 2 Mod. Rep. 885. The judgment
nww is, that the offender shall " be set in and
upon the pillory." And therefore if the under-
sheriff remit part of the judgment by only
setting him upon the pillory, an attachment
lies. Rex v, Beardmore, % Burr, 794.
1099] STATE TRIALS, 32CharlisII. \6W.—Jbrw^a»d publishing a Libel [1210
thought fit that she stand (as near her own
house as conveniently can he) between the
boors of twelve and one, for an hour's space,
at the May-pole, in the Strand, on the most
notorious day ; I think there is a market near
that place, let it be on that day. At another
time, that she stand in Covent-Garden on a
public day the like space of time ; a third time,
that she stand at Charing-Cross on the most
public day, for the space of an hour. And in
the next place, that she find 'sureties for her
good behaviour during her life ; and in every
place where she shall stand on the pillory, some
parcels of her books shall, in her own view, be
burnt by the hands Of the common hangman,
and a Paper of the cause to be put upon the
pillory.
Then the Court charged the sheriff, That he
take care in every place for a sufficient guard,
that the peace may be kept ;* and she was re-
turned to the gaol.
In the year 1682 was published " Relic-
tions upon the Murder of Sir Edmundbury
Godfrey : The design of Thompson, FarweJ),
and Paine, to sham off that murder from the
* " Both the trcbuchetum and the collistri-
g turn," observes Mr. Barrington, Observations
on Assisa Pan is et Cerevise, " were intended
* magis ad ludibrium, et infamiam, quam ad
* peenam,' say the Glossaries. It may there-
tore well deserve the consideration of a judge,
who inflicts the punishment of the pillory (as
it becomes at present the great occasion of
tnobs and riots) whether it can be reconciled
to the original intention of the law in this
mode of punishment; as also if this riotous
scene ends in the death of the criminal, whe-
ther he is not in some measure accessary, both
to the riot and the murder." In what follows,
there h something bordering upon the ludi-
crous: " The chief intention of setting a crimi-
nal in the pillory is, that he should become in-
famous, and known for such afterwards by the
spectators. Can an offender, whose face is
covered with rotten eggs and dirt, be distin-
guished,^ as to prevent his gaining a new credit
with those who have occasion afterwards to
deal with him?" Mr. Barrington also says,
" There hath been more than one instance of
such a murder," [of a person suffering the
punishment of the pillory], within the last SO
years.** See the Case of M Daniel and others,
a. d. 1754, infra. Emlyn in the Preface to
ais edition of the State Trials [See in this
Collection, vol. 1, pp. xxxvi, xxxvii.] observes
tjpoo the practicability ,aud upon the obligation
on the officers of the law to protect persons in
'the pillory from injurious treatment, and in-
Teigns against the neglect of affording such
protection. Mr. Barrington (ubi sup. and ob-
servations oti 18 Edw. 8.) has collected some
^curious particulars respecting the pilloriom or
^eoiristrigium, and the trebuchetum. See also
something concerning the pillory in a Note to
lord Asdley's Case, ante, vol, 3, p.* 401,
■■
Papists : The late endeavours to prove Stafford
a martyr, and no traitor : And the particular
kindnesses of the Observator and Heraelitus to
the whole design. In a Dialogue. With a De-
dication from Mrs. Cellier. London : Printed
for A. B. and published by L. Curtiss, a. P.
1688.*
DlDICATIOW
To the Counts of the Empire, &c.
My Lords; There has been a great Hurly-
burly about the death of sir Edmundbury God-
frey, public justice has made her report to
Heaven, that he was murdered by the Papists;
but the Papists scandalized at the wickedness
of the action, would fain have made the world
believe that he killed himself. My lords ; it is
well known, how far I have contributed my
personal pains, before and since that my ap-
vice to bring this noble design to pass, but £
think the devil owes us a shame, we have al-
ways the ill luck to meet either with fools or
knaves : When it comes to the pinch, what we
well contrive is defeated, by the ill manage-
ment of our instruments. The Observator, in-
deed, did indifferent well ; for he gave a spar-
ring-blow at Praunce's reputation, aod backed
our friend Thompson i'tbe very nick, the very
morning before the trial. I chuckled again
when I heard of the vintner Vboys; they pot
roe in mind of the St Omers lads. But as for
F. and P. and all their witnesses, it was money
merely thrown away. But let us not despond,
my lords, if one thing fails another will hit, and
we shall hit it at last : In the mean time, it is
my advice, that you keep up the Observator's
spirits and double his salary. It will he a thorn
in their sides that swore him at the queen's
chapel, as long as he lives.
Facit Indignatio Dialogos, my Lords — And
though the Heraclitic Cabal be of little mo-
ment, let it not sink : all helps, as the wren
said : but above all (since you may have so
many Protectant booksellers to do it > let the
lord C.'s Vindication of the English Catholics,
bis Memento, and the lord Stafford's Memoirs
be reprinted. Those gentlemen puzzled the
people with their ' if s' and their ' ands' and
* how is it possibles,' at a strange rate. They
had a brave design to persuade men out of
their reason and their senses ; and I am per-
suaded all that believe in the Observator, and
Heraclitus, will believe in • them. I beseech
you, my lords, take these things into your con-
siderations ; for you have leisure enough, and
believe that she will never forsake you, unless
you forsake her, who is your lordships' most
devoted Servant, Eliz. Cellieb.
Depositions.
Whereas in a Narrative, or printed Book, Or
Libel called, Malice defeated, or a brief
Relation or Accusation of the Deliverance
of Elizabeth Cellier:
It is amongst other things in page the third
and fourth of the said book written as follow-
1811] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL 16B0.— Trial qf Elizabeth COkr, [1211
etb, viz. Soon after this, Francis Corral, a
coachman, that had been put into Newgate
upon suspicion of carrying away sir Edmood-
bury Godfrey's body, and lay there thirteen
weeks and (hree days in great misery, got out;
I went to see him, and found him a sad spec-
tacle, having the flesh worn away, and great
boles in both bis legs by the weight of his irons,
and having been chained so long doubled, that
he could not stand upright, he told me much
of his hard and cruel usage, as that he bad
been squeezed and hasped in a . thing like a
trough, in a dungeon under ground ; which put
him to inexpressible torment, insomuch that
be swooned, and that a person in the habit of
a minister stood by ail the while. That a duke
beat hirn, and pulled him by the hair, aud set
bis drawn sword to his breast three times, and
swore he would run him through; and another
great lord laid down a heap of gold, and told
bim it was 500/. and that he shall have it
all, and be taken into the aforesaid duke's house
if he would confess what they would have him,
and one F. a vintner, that lives at the sign
of the Half-moon in Ch-si. by whose contri-
vance he was accused, took him aside, and
bid bim name some person, and say, they em-
ployed him to take up the dead body in
Somerset-yard, and gave him money for so
doing ; that if he would do this, both F. and
he, should have money enough. He also told
me, that he was kept from Thursday to Sunday
without victuals or driuk, having his hands
every night chained behind him, and being
all this time locked to a staple which was
.driven into the floor, with a chain not above
a yard long : that in this great extremity, was
forced to drink his own water ; and that the
jaoler beat his wife, because she brought vic-
tuals, and prayed that be might have it, and
threw milk on the ground, and not look at him
&c. For the reader's farther satisfaction of his
great and cruel suffering, I refer to the party
himself now living in Gunpowder-Alley in
Shoe-Lane, and well known by his misfortunes.
I Francis Corral of Gunpowder Alley in
Shoe-lane, being the person before named, make
oath that Mrs. Cellier was never with me in the
prison of Newgate, and that I never told her
there nor any where else that ever I was
chained so long double that I could not stand
upright, nor never told her that T had any hard
or cruel usage there, nor that I was ever
squeezed or hasped to a thing like a trough
in a dungeon under ground which put me
to tonrient, nor that I swooned, nor that
a person in the habit of a minister stood
by me at any time whilst in the prison,
except when I went into the chapel to
prayers ; nor that any duke beat me, pulled
me by the hair, or set his sword to my breast
three times, or swore that he would run me
through ; nor that any great lord laid down a
heap of gold, and told me it was 500/. and
that I should have it all, and be taken into the
aforesaid duke's bouse if I would confess.wbat
they would have me ; nor that F. a vintner
that lives at the sign of the Half-moon mChssp-
side did take me aside, and bid me name soma
person, and say they employed me to take ap
the body in Somerset-yard, and gate me
money for so doing, that if I would do this, both
F. and 1 should have money enough ; nor did
I ever tell her that I was kept from Thursday
to Sunday without meat and drink ; nor were
my bands ever chained behind me ; nor was I
ever locked to a staple driven into a floor with
a chain not above a yard long, but what she
hath written in her said book or libel u notori-
ously false and untrue ; but on the contrary,
daring the time of my imprisonment I wis
civilly treated by the keeper and his servants.
Francis Corral.
Jur. 6. Sept. 1680. Coram me,
Robert Clayton Mayor.
I Margaret, the wife of the said Francis
Corral, make oath, That tbe said Gaoler
never beat me because I brought victuals sad
prayed that my husband might have it ; nor
threw any milk on the ground ; nor bid me be
gone and not look upon hunt Neither do I
know, or believe, that my husband had any
hard usage from any of the keepers during hi
imprisonment ; but on the contrary, was civilly
treated by them.
This deponent farther maketh oath, That oa
Thursday last she went with her husband to
Mrs. Cellier's house ; and her husband asked
her, what she meant by putting such a com-
pany of lies upon liim m her book. She an-
swered, She bad a mind to do it, and that if
some of them were lies all were not He told
her, that she would ruin him, and bring him to
a prison as he was before. She answered.
That if he were arrested, she would bail him;
and if he were cast into prison, she would main*
tain both him and his family, for that she had
got money enough, and that she would have me
to a lord or lords that would secure him, and
bid me cheer up my husband, for that neither
I nor my family should want, and gave me then
five shillings, aud bid me cheer up my husband
with that. Sig. Margaret Corral.
Jur. 6, Sept. 1680. Coram me,
Robert Clayton, Mayor.
I, Francis Corral, within named, further
make oath, That on Thursday last, I went with
my wife to Mrs. Center's hou«, and a>ked ber
what she meant by putting such a company of
lies upoo me in ber book. She answered, that
she had a mind to do it, and that if some of
them were lies, all were not. I told ber, she
would ruin me, and bring me into a prison, si I
was before. She told me, if I were arrested,
that she would bail me ; and if I were cast ioio
prison, she would maintain me and my family;
for that she got money enough, and that she
would have me to a lord or lords that would
secure me. And she bid my wife to cheer me
up, for that neither I, nor my family fhowd
want, and gave my wife five shillings, nod bid
ber cheer me up with that. Francis CorR*I»
Jur. 6, die Sept. 1680. Coram me;
Robert Clayton, Mayor.
131SJ STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL md.—fortvritingandpubfakmgaLilcl [1914
I*
i*
I, Matthias Fowler, living nt the Half-Moon
in Cb-si. vintner,- make oath, That I never
saw any duke or lord with Francis Corral, in
this paper mentioned/ in Newgate ; ner did I
ever see any duke beat him, or set a sword to
his breast ; nor did I ever see any lord lay down
a heap of gold, and tell the said Corral it was
500/., and the said Corral should have it, if be
would swear what the doke and lord would have
him. Nor did I ever take him aside, and bid
him name some person, and say, they employed
him the said Corral to take up the dead body
of sir Edinundbury Godfrey's in Somerset-
Yard, and gave him money for so doing, and
that if he would do this, both he and I should
have money enough. But that the same is no-
toriously false and untrue.
Matthias Fowler.
Jur. 8, die 6ept. 1680. Coram me,
Robert Clayton, Mayor.
The Indictment in this Case was as follows :
Rex vcrnti Cellier for a Libel.
38 Car. 2, 0. B.
it. Juratores pro DonV Rege super sacra-
mentum suum prassentant, Quod EhV Cellier
uxor Cellier, de parochia sanct'CIementis
Decor* in com' Midd' Gen', eadem Eliz' existen'
religionis papalis, Deuro prss oculis suis non
habeas, sed instigation* diabolica mot' et
tedoct', et ralso et malitiose machinans et in-
tendens, serenissimum Dominum nostrum Ca-
rolum secundum, Dei gratia Angliae, Scotia*,
Francis, et Hiberniae Regem, et gubernatio-
nem suam bojus regni Angliat, necnon veram
religionem protestan', infra hoe regnum Angliae
lege stability in odium, infamiam, et con-
tempt um inducere et inferte, et scandal urn et
infamiam imponere super quihosdam person is,
qui product! fuissent testes, et testimon' de-
dissent ex parte dicti DonV Regis contra prsd'
Eliz' Cellier, et alias personas,de aha proditione
indict at* primo die Augusti, anno regni diet'
DonV Regis tricesimo secundo, apud praedict'
parochiam sancti Clemen' Dacor* in com* Midd'
prsed', false, malitiose, et seditiose scripsit et
poblicavit, et scribf , imprimi, publican causavit,
qaeiidaro fictura, fatsum, et scandalosam libel-
lam, intitulat', ' Malice defeated, ore brief re-
4 lation of the accusation and deliverance of
* Elisabeth Cellier: wherein her proceedings
' both before and during her confinement are
* particularly related, and the mystery of the
* Meal Tub fully discovered ; together with an
* abstract of her arraignment and trial, written
' by herself for the satisfaction of all lovers of
* undisguised truth/ In quo quidem libello con-
tinents base falsa, ficta, et scandalosa verba,
et figures sequentia :**.'! hope it will not
* seem strange to any honest and loyal person,
* of what way or religion soever, that T, being
* bora and bred up under protectant parents,
* should now openly profess myself of another
* church (Ecclesiam Romanam, innuendo) for,
« education being in those times when my
7
own parents and relations, for their constant
and faithful affection to the king and royal fa-
mily, were persecuted, the king himself mur-
dered, the bishops and church destroyed, the
whole loyal party, merely for being so'opprest
and ruined, and all, as was pretended by the
authors of these vilianies, for their being pa-
pists and idolaters, the constant character
given by them to the king and his friends ;
and to make them odious, they- assuming to
themselves only' the name of Protestants,
making that the glorious title by which tbey
pretended right to all things. These sort of
proceedings, as I grew in understanding,
produced in me more and more horror of the
party that committed them, and put me on
enquiring into that religion to which they pre-
tend the greatest antipathy, wherein, I thank
God, I found my innate loyalty not only con-
firmed, but encouraged ; and, let calumny say
what it will, I never heard from any papist,
as they call them, priest or layman, but thai
they and I, and all true catholics, owe our
lives to the defence of our lawful king, which
our present sovereign Charles the second is,
whom God long and happily preserve so.
These sort of doctrines agreeing to my public
morals, and no way, as ever I was taught,
contradicting my private ones, commending
at the same time to me charity and devotion,
I without any scruple have hitherto followed
glorying myself to be in communion with those
(papistas innuendo) who were the humble in*
' struments of his majesty's happy preservation
from the fatal battle at Worcester, and whom
though poor, no temptation could invite to
betray him to those, who by a pretended
Protestant principle sought his innocent
blood. These truths, I hope, may satisfy any
innocent person in my present change ; nor
can they wonder at my continuance therein,
notwithstanding the horrid crimes of treason
and murder laid to the charge of some per-
sons, considerable for their quality and for-
tunes, in that party : For when I reflected
who were witnesses, and what unlikely things
they deposed, and observed that many of the
chiefest sticklers for the Plot were those, or
the sons of those, that acted the principal part
in the last tragedy, which history told me too
had the prologue of a pretended popish Plot ;
I say, these things made me doubtful of the
whole ; and the more I searched for truth,
the more I doubted that the old enemies of
the crown were at work- again for its destruc-
tion. I bein^ fully confirmed in this, thought
it my doty, through all sorts of hazards, to re-
lieve the poor, imprisoned catholics who in
great numbers were locked up in gaols, starv-
ing for want of bread; and this I did some
months before I "ever saw the countess of
Powis, or any of those honourable persons
that were accused, or receiving one penny
of their money, directly or indirectly, till
about the latter end of January (1678)
the prisoners increasing very much.' Etin alia
parte ejusdem iibelli (inter alia) continentur
1215] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Trial qf Elizabeth Cettier. {1216
hac falsay acta, et scandalosa verba, ti.
About this time I went daily to the prisons, to
perform those offices of charity I was obliged
to; and on Thursday January 9,(1678.) I
dined in Newgate, in the room called the Cas-
tle, on the master debtors side; and about four
in the afternoon I came down into the Lodge,
with five women, of which three were protes-
tants ; and we all heard terrible groans and
squeeks, which came out of the dungeon called
the Condemned Hole: I asked Harris the turn-
key what doleful cry it was ; he said it was a
woman in labour; I bid him put us into the
room to her, and we would help ber ; but he
drove us away very rudely, both out of the
lodge, and from the door. We went behind
the gate, and there listened, and soon found
that it was the voice of a strong roan in tor-
ture, and heard, as we thought, between his
groans, the winding up of some engine. These
cries stopped the passengers under the gate ;
and we six went to the Turner's shop without
the gate, and stood there, amazed with the
horror and dread of what we beard ; when one
of the officers of the prison came out in great
baste, seeming to ran from the noise : One of
us caught hold of him, saying. Oh ! what are
they doing in the prison ? Officer. I dare not
tell you, mistress. Cell. It is a man upon the
rack, I will lay my life on it. Omc. It is some-
thing like it. Cellier. Who is it, Praunce ?
Omc. Pray, Madam, do not ask me, for I dare
not tell you; but it is that I am not able to
hear any longer ; pray let me go. With that
he ran away towards Holbourn as fast as he
could. We heard these groans perfectly to the
end of the Old* Bailey : They continued till near
7 of the clock ; and then a person in the habit
of a minister, of a middle stature, grey-haired,
accompanied with two other men, went into
the lodge; the prisoners were locked op, and
the outward door of the lodge also, at which I
set a person to stand and observe what she
could ; and a prisoner loaded with irons was
brought into the lodge, and examined a long
time ; and the prisoners that came down as
low as they could, heard the person examined,
with great vehemency say often, I know no-
thing of it; I am innocent; he forced me to
bely myself; what would you have me say ?
will you murder ine because I will not bely my-
self and others ? Several other such like ea-
pressious they heard spoken, as by one in great
agony. About four of the clock the next morn-
ing the prisoners, thnlay in a place about the
Hole, heard the same cry again two hours, and
on Saturday morning again; and about eight of
the clock that morning, a person I employed
to jpy out the truth of this aftair, did see the
turnkeys carry a bed into the Hole : she asked
who it was for ; they toid her it was for
Praunce, wbo was gone mad, and had torn bis
bed in pieces. That night the examiners came
again, and Praunce was led away to the Press-
yard. This, and many things of like nature,
made roe very inquisitive to know what passed
in the prison. Soon after this Francis Corral a
' Scotchman, that bad been put into Newgate
' upon suspicion of carrying away sir Edmund*
' bury Godfrey's body, and lay there 13 weeks
* and 3 days in great misery, go tout : I went to
' see bim, and found him a sad spectacle, having
* the flesh worn away, and great holes in both
' his legs, by the weight of his irons; and having
' been chained so long double, that he could not
' stand upright : He told me much of his hard
' and cruel usage, as that he had been squeezed
' and hasped into a thing like a trough in a dun-
' geon under ground, which put him to inex-
' pressible torment, insomuch that he swooned;
* and that a person in the habit of a minister
' stood by all the while ; that a duke beat him,
' pulled him by thehair, and set a drawn sword
' to his breast three times, and swore he would
'run him through; and another great lord had
' laid down a heap of gold, and told him it was
1 500/. ; that he should have it all, and be taken
' into the aforesaid duke's house, if lie would
* confess what they would have him : And one F.
' a vintner, that lives at the sign of the Ha)f-
' Moon in Ch St , by whose contrivance
* he was accused, took bim aside, and bid him
' name some person, and say they employed bim
' to take up the dead body in Somerset-yard, and
' gave him money for so doing ; that il he would
' do tiiis, both F. and he should have money
' enough. He also told me, that he was kept
* from Thursday till Sunday without victuals or
' drink, having his hands every night chained be-
' hind him ; and being all this time locked to a
' staple, which was driven into the floor, with a
' chain-not above a yard long ; that in this great,
' extremity he was forced to drink bis own water;
' and that the gaoler beat his wife because she
' brought victuals, and prayed be might have it,
* and threw milk on the ground, and bid her be
' gone, and not look at him/ Et in altera parte
ejusdein libelli continent' (inter al') base falsa,
ncta et scandalosa verba sequentia : ss. ' My
* arraignment, which, in confidence of my own
* innocency, I continually pressed for; not but
* that I knew the danger, as jo this life, of en-
' countering the devil in the worst of his instre-
* meats, which are perjurers encouraged to that
* degree, as that profligated wretch,' qnendasuv
Thomam Dangerneld testem product' ex parte
Dom. Regis contra praxf Elizabethans Cellier,
pro alta proditione ionuendoY' was, and has
< been since his being exposed to the world in
1 his true colours, both at mine and another's
1 trial/ Et in altera parte ejusdem libelli con-
tinentur haec falsa, ficta, et scandalosa verba
sequen' : ss. ' Nor have I since received any
* thing towards my losses, or the least civility
* from any of them, whilst Dangerfieid/prssdict'
Thomam Dangerfield iterum innuendo * when
* made a prisoner for appareot recorded
* rogueries, was visited by and from persons of
' considerable quality, with great sums of gold
* and silver, to encourage bim in the new villa -
* nies he had undertaken, not against me alone,
* but persons, in whose safety all good men (as
* well protectants as others) in the three kin:;-
1 doins are concerned/ Et in altera parte ejus*
I
u
u
If
1217]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceeding?, *c.
[1213
dem libelli, vocaf ' A postscript to the im-
* partial reader/ continent* baec falsa, ficca, et
tcandalosa verba sequentta :*ss. ' And when-
' soever his majesty pleases to make it as safe
' and honourable to speak truth/ as it is appa-
4 rent it hath been gainful and meritorious to do
4 the contrary, there will not want witnesses to
' testify the truth of more than I have written,
' and person» tlmt are above being made the
' hangman's hounds for weekly pensions, or any
' other considerations whatsoever/ In malum
et perniciosissimum exemplum outn' uliar'in
tali casu delinquin' contra pacem diet* Dom
Regis, coron', et dignitat' suas.
5271.
Proceedings against the Five Popish Lords, viz. the Earl of
Powis, Lord Viscount Stafford, Lord Petre, Lord Arun-
del of Wardour, and Lord Bellasyse, for High Treason:
Together wjth the Trial of Lord Viscount Stafford: 30
Charles II. — 1 Jac. II. a. d. 1678 — 1685.
&
[Of these five Lords, only one (Stafford) was brought to trial. The Proceedings
against the others are nevertheless interesting and instructive in many respects;
it is therefore thought proper not to omit them : and as those Proceedings are
intimately connected with the Trial of Lord Stafford, arose out of thesame trans*
action, and upon one prosecution, the whole are incorporated into one article,
in order to avoid the many repetitions or references which would be inevitable
if the Cases were separated.]
House of Lords, October 25, 1678.
THE lord viscount Stafford acquainted the
House, That be was informed that there was a
warrant issued out, from the Lord Chief Jus-
tice of England, to apprehend lam ; which be
thought fit to acquaint their lordships with,
and submitted himself to tbeir lordships' judg-
ment.
The Lord Chief Justice,- being present, was
commanded Co give the House an account of
the business :
Who said, That last night about 9 o'clock,
he received a letter from the Speaker of the
House of Commons, dated from the Speaker's
chair, to come to the House of Commons about
business of great concernment. Accordingly
he attended the House of Commons ; where
the Speaker told him, That the House of Com-
mons had received accusations of High Trea-
son against Five Lords and some gentlemen,
and desired him to issue out his warrants for
their apprehension. The persons were, the
earl of Powis, viscount Stafford, the lord
Arundel of Wardeor, the lord Petre, and the
lord Bellasis ; and, upon this, be issued out his
warrants for their apprehension ; having taken
the examination or Titus Oates upon oath :
That the earl of Powis and the lord Arundel
were brought to him this morning, in custody ;
and he advised them to render themselves to
the Gatehouse, where now they are.
Upon this, tbe examination of Oates was
read ; whereby it did appear, that the lord vis-
count Stafford was charged to be in a conspi-
racy of treason against the king.
The lord viscount Stafford denied the fact ;
aod after this withdrew,
. And after a while the House was informed,
VOL- VII.
That his lordship would render himself to the
Lord Chief Justice.
After some debate of this business, the fur-
ther consideration was put off until to-morrow.
October 26.
The House being informed, That the lord
Bellasis having all his papers seized by virtue
of the Lord Chief Justice's warrant, lie desires
that the said papers may be sealed up in a bag,
aud brought into this House. Which was or-
dered. And the like Order to be for all the
lords who are apprehended by virtue of the
I warrant from the Lord Chief Justice.
The lord Petre, being in the House, took no-
tice, That lie heard of a warrant issued out
against him by the Lord Chief Justice of Eng-
land ; aud he desired to know the cause of it.
Hereupon the House directed the Lord Chan-
cellor to acquaint his lordship what account
the Lord Chief Justice gave the House yester-i
day, and upon what grounds he issued out his
warrant for apprehending him and several other
lords, for Hi*h Treason. His, lordship with-
drew himself; and the House made these Or-
ders following :
" Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and tem-
poral in parliament assembled, that tbe gentle*
man usher of the black rod attending this
House, do forthwith take the lord Petre into his
custody, and carry him in safety to the Tower
of London, for treason wherewith he is charged,
there to remain till he shall be discharged by*
due course of law ; and this to be a sufficient
warraat on that behalf.
" To sir Edward Carteret, gentle-
man usher of the black rod at-
tending this House, his deputy
and deputies/'
41
1»»] STATE TRIALS, 3* Charles II. 1 G8d — Proceedings eg*** ** I1**0
" Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and tern- I
poral in parliament assembled. That the con-
stable of his majesty's Tower of London^ or his
deputy, do receive the body of the lord Petre,
for treason wherewith he is charged, and keep
him in safe custody within the said Tower, till
he shall be discharged by due course of law ;
and this shall be a sufficient warrant on that
behalf.
" To the constable of his majesty's
Tower of London, his deputy
and deputies, and evtry of
them."
October 29.
The House being informed, That the lord
Bellasis, now a prisoner in the prison of the
King's Bench, by warrant of the Lord Chief
Justice of England, for treason, is so ill, that
he cannot without danger be removed : It is
ordered, That sir Charles Scarborough be, and
is hereby, appointed to go and visit the said lord
Bellasis, and give this House on account to-
morrow morning in what condition of health he
finds him.
Ordered, That his majesty be humbly de-
sired from this House, that the lord Bellasis,
now a prisoner in the prison of the King's
Beach, by warrant of the Lord Chief Justice of
England, for treason, being, as is informed, so
iU that he cannot be removed, may have a
guard set on him there ; and that notice be
taken of the names of all such persons as shall
come to visit his lordship there.
October SO.
This day Dr. Scarborough gave the House
. an account : That he did visit the lord Bellasis
this morning, and finds him in good health;
and that his lordship is ready to be removed,
as their lordships shall think fit.
Ordered, That the Lords with white staves
do attend his majesty, humbly to desire him
from this House,, that the lord viscount de
Stafford, and the lord Bellasis, and col. Uoper
and his son, and Mr. RatclifTe, being prisoners
in the prison of ''the King's Bench, by warrant
of the Lord Chief Justice of England, for trea-
son, may be removed, to remain prisoners in
his majesty's Tower of London.
House or Commohs, October SO, 167ft.
Mr. Sacheverell reports, from the committee
which by Order of the House was appointed to
take the eiamination of Mr. Coleman, That
the committee went to Newgate : and laying
before Mr. Coleman his present danger ; and
that he could have no hopes to escape it, but
by a rail and plain discovery of his whole know-
ledge of the conspiracy ; Mr. Coleman without
any panic*!** questions put to him, said to the
effect following :
As to any design against the king's person ;
or for the taking away of his life ; or the les-
sening of bit power, be totally denies any know-
ledge of it, or that be cm did design k, or ever
heard of any such design or intention,
directly or indirectly ; He totally denies, that
he ever knew or heard of any cosanusniooa for
raising an army, or any intent or design of
raising an army, till of late that he heard so,
when he was examined by the Lords : Ha ut-
terly denies, that he ever designed or endea-
voured to change the religion established in
this kingdom, or to introduce Popery ; bat
confesses, he did endeavour to have this par-
liament dissolved, and by that mesne to gain a
liberty of conscience ; which he thought this
parliament would never grant : And said. He
observed every sessions of parliament the growth
of Popery complained of, notwithstanding al
their endeavours against it ; and believed the
Catholic religion to be the true one, and the
Protestant the false; and therefore only pro-
posed a toleration, as concluding, that if the
Catholic religion stood upon equal ground, k
would prevail : And says, He did endeavour
to get 300,000/. from France; hoping that
thereby his majesty might be prevailed on to
dissolve this parliament, rather than wait for an
uncertain som : And says, there was not three
men in England acquainted with these his de*
signs, or with his correspondence ; but that the
duke of York was acquainted with them ; and
he believes he comsaunicated them to my lord
Arundel of Wardour: And said, He concluded
it most probable to have money from France
for dissolving this parliament; in regard tat
confederacy against France was chiefly sap-
ported and held together bv the countenance
and expectation they bad from this pawlia
ment.
The first correspondency, he says, which he
had in France, was by some letters of news,
which he wrote to sir Win. Throgmorton, about
the time of the siege of Mastreicht ; any news
being welcome at a siege ; and by that way the
correspondency between him and La Ferrier
was introduced : and says, That upon the
death of La Ferrier, which was about the
time that the French king possessed hiuMehf of
French Counte (which, he takes it, was tat
year after the siege of Mastreicht) he sent a
narrative to La Chaise, to give him an account
of the transactions that had passed betwixt La
Ferrier and him; but after that wrote not above
three or four letters to La Chaise; and that that
the correspondency betwixt them ceased.
He also said, That he had kept a corrcspaa
denov with the pope's nuncio at Bruxells;
which correspondency was first introduced by
a proposition that Father Patrick brought from
the nuncio there into England, of a great auei
of money that should be jpveu by the pope at
the kine of England, if the catholics nere a
England might have some favour, answerable
to it : but the proposition being so confuted
that they did not understand it, be was teat
by the duke of York to the nuncio at BraxeU%
to understand the proposition.
And he says, When ho causa to Brtixells,
the nuncio told him, He bad no authority frost
the court of Rome to make any sach proposi
im] STATE TRIALS, S8 Cbaolb* IL lCSO.— Five Fopkh
[1292
tien ; but did it as a private person, and not by
order from the court of .Rome : bot says, That
the nuncio, being then to go to Rome, promised
Mr. Coleman to do what service there he could
in that basinets : but says, he hath not held any
correspondency with the nuncio this three or four
years ; nor with nny other person, so as to
manage an airair : that perhaps might touch
upon the business in some letters.
He says, The cypher marked with the pro.
VHMnaTs mark, was the cypher betwixt him
and St. German ; and that he always wrote to
the provincial in plain words, and not in cy-
pher ; and that there was another cypher be-
twixt him and Blank art, who was secretary to
M. Rovigney ; but that was only upou small
concerns, and not upon any thing of this na-
ture.
And Mr. Coleman being then asked by the
committee, whether he knew of any other sum
of money that was proposed or treated on ; he
answered, that he believed there was money
proposed, to keep the king of England from
joining with the confederates against France ;
but does not know of aay money paid.
Ordered, That Mr. Richardson, keeper of
the prison of Newgate, be forthwith sent for to
attend this bouse.
Mr. Secretary Williamson acquaints the house
that in pursuance of the order of the house, the
members of this house which are of bis majes-
ty's privy council, had attended his majesty :
and that his majesty was pleased to signify, that
all the papers and writings relating to the plot
ahoaid be commaaicated to the house : and
that orders were given punraant to his majesty's
command.
Ordered, That the papers relating to the plot
sow under examination, be delivered to the
committee apohited to translate Mr. Coleman's
letters : And that col. Birch, sir Willianrfrack-
)and, sir Cyrill Wych, sir Tho. Mompesson,
air John Coventry, lord Clifford, Mr. Devereux,
air John Haniner, sir John Reresby, sir
John Waerden, sir Ed Manstl, Mr. Hull,
lord AHington, sir Rich. Temple, be a'Jded
to the committee: And they are to meet this
afternoon ; and to sit de die in diem, until
they shall have perfected the matters to them
referred : And they are impowered to send for
persons, papers, and records.
Mr. Richardson, Keeper of the prison of
Newgate, being called in, to give an account,
What persons have had any communication
with Mr. Coleman, since his commit mem ; he
acquainted the house, That tliere had not been
any person admitted to come to, or converse
with Mr. Coleman, since his imprisonment, ex-
cept his servant, to know what he wanted, and
bis wife, by virtue of an order from the privy
council : And that he himself was present
whilst she was with him ; and that she did not
deliver him anything ; and that she was not
permitted to discourse to him any thing of news,
aor any thing relating to the plot now under ex-
.ammation, besides the committees appointed
bjr each house of parliament to examine him.
House of Loans, October 31.
Whereas William lord Petre stands commit-
ted by this house to the Tower of London, for
Treason, wherewith he is charged: It is this
day ordered, That the constable of the said
Tower, his deputy and deputies, do take care
that the said lord Petre be kept close prisoner,
and not suffered to come to the other prisoners,
nor to have the use of pen, ink or paper, till
further order.
House of Commons, November 1.
Resolved, &c. That this house would proceed
by way of Impeachment against the lord
Arundel of Wardour.
Ordered, That a committee be appointed to
prepare and draw up Articles of Impeachment
against him.
House of Lords, November 8.
The Lord Treasurer reported, ' That himself
and the other lords went yesterday, according
to their lordships order, to examine some of
the prisoners in the Tower. And the first they
had before them was sir John Gage, who owns
the examinations which was taken of him, by
sir Thomas Stringer, to be upon oath ; and that
the paper which they shewed him (which was
put into their hands by sir Thomas Stringer) was
a copy of his said examination. But he denies
that he was examined by the Lord Chief Jus-
tice ; or that he ever received any letter or
commission whatsoever from Mr. Oates ; or
that he knew any thing of any plot against his
majesty's service, or against the government.
" Sir William Goring was before them next ;
who likewise denied any kind of knowledge of
those things which he was accused of, or that
he knew any such man as Mr. Oates.
** They then sent for the lord Arundel of
Wardour ; whom they first examined as to his
being privy to Mr. Coleman's going to Brussells,
to the pope's nuncio ; and urged to him, * That
the letters to Coleman, from the nuncio, did
give a caution, that none should be trusted
with the business, but his royal highness and
the lord Arundel.' Yet his lordship did abso-
lutely deny that he knew any thing of the
transaction between Coleman and the said
nuncio, or of Coleman's' errand into Flanders ;
but said, ' It was likely he took his leave of him
1 before be went.'
" His lordship did own, Coleman was twice
with him that day Coieman'a papers were
seized ; that the first time they discoursed of
indifferent matters ; the last time (which was
about six in the evening) Coleman spoke of
his papers being seized ; and that thereupon his
lordship advised him to follow his papers, and
render himself.
Being asked, his lordship further declared,
' He never saw Mr. Oates in his life ; and
that he never was at Mr. Langhorn's chamber
but once, and never saw him but that time,
and that he never did any business for him ;
1223] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chahlbs II. 1680.— Proceeding? againU the [1*24
and that lie was so far from having any ac-
quaintance with Mr. Langhorn's sons, that he
did not know that Mr. Langhorn was married,
until he lately asked the question/ And as for
bis lordship's receiving any patent, commission,
or any power from foreigners, lie saith, ' He
never did, but bath a patent for count of the
empire, and for the place of master of the
borse to her late majesty the queen mother ;
and never had any other/
" His lordship further declared, ' That he
had never any thing to do with any Jesuit ;
but that be knows most of those that are in
prison/
" The lord Petre was the last that tbeir lord-
ships examined ; and tbey acquainted his lord-
ship with Mr. Oate»'s deposition against him,
" That he had received a commission for lieu-
tenant General, from Mr. Oates, in Mr. Lang-
born 's chamber, in the presence of Mr. Lang-
worth ; and that Mr. Lang worth gave his lord-
ship joy thereupon/' Ail which his lordship
did utterly deny ; or that he knew Mr. Oates,
or had ever seen him,; or that be ever saw Mr.
Langhorn, or was at his chamber, or knew where
bis chamber was/ II in lordship did indeed
acknowledge, 'That he knew Langworth ; and
that he had lately heard that Mr. Oates had
been at his house ; hut that he never heard of
bis name until Michaelmas eve last, when his
lordship's bouse was searched for Mr. Lang-
worth.
" And as for his offering any thing to persons
thnt should chnnge to4he Romish religion; his
lordship doth absolutely disown it : As also that
ever be had any commerce with Mr. Coleman
about any matter of business.
*' This is the sum of what their lordships bad
to acquaint the bouse with; besides an humble
supplication of the said lords, which they desired
their lordships would acquaint the house with,
in regard they cannot petition the house, being
debarred from the use of pen, ink, and paper;
which is, Thnt this house would be pleased to
remit their close imprisonment ; and that they
might be permitted to walk in the Tower, for
their health, which is in danger by their present
close restraint/'
November 23. *
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
in parliament assembled, That the lords com-
mittees appointed to examine persons and
papers concerning the horrid design against his
majesty's person and government be, and are
hereby, empowered to peruse all the papers
and writings of the earl nt Powis, lord Arundel
or W ardour, and lord Bellasis, prisoners in the
Tower, which, being seized, are now in the cus-
tody of the clerk of the parliaments; and to
give the House an account thereof,
. November 26.
Upon report made by the earl of Essex,
from the lords committees appointed to exa-
mine persons And papers for the discovery of
the horrid design against bis majesty's person
and government, " That, their lordships hive
perused all the papers and writings of the earl
of Powis, now a prisoner in the Tower ; which,
being seized, were, by order of this home,
brought and delivered into the custody of the
clerk of the parliaments; and find not inj
papers or writings in the least relating to the
said horrid design, tbey being papers merely of
private concern :"
It is thereupon ordered, by the Lords spirhosl
and temporal in parliament assembled, That
the said papers and writings may be detirertd
to the earl of Powis, or such person or peraoni
as bis lordship shall appoint to receive the
same ; .and for so doing, this shall be a iubV
cient warrant.
December 5.
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons, by Mr. Wharton, &c.
" That the Commons of England in parlia-
ment assembled, having received information of
divers traiterous practices and designs of s
great peer of this house, Henry lord Arundel
of Wardour, have commanded him to impeach
the said Henry lord Arundel of Warder, of
treason, and other high crimes and misde-
meanors ; and he did here, in tbeir Danes, and
in the names of all the Commons of England,
impeach the said Henry lord Arundel! of War*
der, of treason, and high crimes and aw*
demeanors. — They have further comoaanded
him to acquaint your lordships, That they wH
in convenient time exhibit to your lordships the
Articles of the Charge against him."
A Message was brought, from the Coaamoss,
by Mr. Maynard and others :
" That the Commons of England in parlia-
ment assembled, having received inforroatioa
of divers traiterous practices and designs of •
great peer of this house, William earl of Powis.
have commanded him to impeach the said Wil-
liam earl of Powis of treason, and other high
crimes and misdemeanors; and he did here, is
their names, and in the names of all the Com-
mons of England, impeach the said William
earl of Powis of treason, and high crimes and
misdemeanors. — They have further commissi
ed him to acquaint your lordships, That they
will within convenient time exmlnt to yosr
lordships the articles of the charge against ban.
A Message was brought from the Commoos
by Mr. Thynn, ore.
" That the Commons of England in paw*
ment assembled, having received inforroiOos
of divers traiterous practices and designs of a
great peer of this house, John lord Bella***
have commanded him to impeach tbe saal
John lord Bellasis of treason, and other
higb crimes and misdemeanors; andbtdaj
here, in tbeir names, and in the names of
all the Commons of England, impeach w
said John lord Bellasis of treason, and hfb
crimes and misdemeanors.*— Tbey have flow
commanded him to acquaint yoor lordshipf*
That tbey will within convenient time tiW*
MS5] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Fhe Popish Lords. [1220
to your lordships the Articles of the Charge
against him."
A Message was brought from the Commons!
by sir Philip Warwick :
" That the Commons of England in parlia-
ment assembler!, having received information of
divers traiterous practices and designs of a
great peer of this house, William lord Petre,
Imve commanded him to impeach the said
VViiliam lord Pctre of treason, and other high
crimes and misdemeanors; and he did here, in
their names, and in the names of all the Com-
mons of England, impeach the said William
lord Petre of treason, and high crimes and'mis-
demeanors. — They have further commanded
him to acquaint jour lordships, That they will
within convenient time exhibit to your lordships
the Articles of the Charge against him."
A Message was brought from the Commons,
bj sir Scroope How, &c.
" That the Commons of England in Parlia-
ment assembled, having received information
of divers traiterous practices and designs of a
great peer of this house, William lord viscount
Stafford, have commanded him to impeach the
said William lord viscount Stafford of treason,
and Qther high crimes and misdemeanors ; and
he did here, in their names, and in the names
of all the Commons of England, impeach the
said William lord viscount Stafford, of treason,
and high crimes and misdemeanors. — They
have further commanded him to acquaint your
lordships, That they will within convenient time-
exhibit to your lordships the articles of the
charge against him."
Ordered, That these Impeachments betaken
into consideration to-morrow; and all the
Judges to be then present.
December 17.
. Upon report made by the earl of Clarendon,
from the lords committees for examining per-
sons and papers concerning the horrid design
against his majesty's person and government,
" That their lordships have perused the papers
and writings of the lord Arundel of Warder,
which were seized, and by order of this house
delivered into. the custody of the clerk of the
parliaments, and have taken out such of them
as may.be evideuce, in order to the further dis-
covery of the said horrid design ; and desiring
the directions of the house for the disposal of
the remainder thereof:"
It is thereupon ordered, by the Lords spiritual
and temporal in parliament assembled, That
all such of the lord Arundel of Warder's
papers as are only of private concernment may
be delivered, by the clerk of the parliaments, to
such person or persons as the lord Arundel! of
Warder shall appoint to receive the same: And
this shall be a sufficient warrant on that behalf.
December HQ.
Pkancb s Examination about the Plot.
The duke of Monmouth, by his majesty's
command, communicated to the House, the
examinations of Miles Prance and others,
taken at the council table ; which were read as
followeth.
"December 34th 1678. > Miles Prance a
silversmith, being this day examined at large,
touching the murder of sir Edmondbury Godfrey,
and being upon oath interrogated what he
knew concerning the Plot, made answer as fol-
loweth-:
" That he was at Mr. Ireland's chamber, in
Russel Street, some time before Michaelmas ;
and that, Fenwick and Grove being there pre-
sent, Ireland said, ' That there would be 60,000
men in arms.' Prance asking, where they
would be had, and what to do ?" Ireland said,
' We must have them in a short time, to settle
religion ; or else all would be ruined/
" That, soon after this, Grove came to his
shop, to buy two silver spoons, for a christ-
oing where he was to be godfather. Prance
asked him, * What office he should have in
the army V He answered, * He did not know/
But asking him, » Who was to govern this
army?' He said, ' The lord Powis, the lord
Bellnsis, lord Pctre, and lord Arundel.'
" And further saith, that be was also told by
Mr. Fen wick, « That the lord Powis, lord Bel-
lasis, aud lord Arundel, were to command the
army.'
" He further saith, that, there came to his
shop Mr. Le Fevre, to buy a second hand
sword ; and being asked by him, ' What he
meant to do therewith ?' He answered, ' He
knew not what timesjhey should have.' Prance
replied, ' What then shall we poor tradesmen
do?' He said, 'That when catholic religion
was brought in, it would be better for trades-
men ; and particularly there would be more
church work for goldsmiths/ ^
" He further says, that one Mr. Moore, that
belongs to the duke of Norfolk, was seen by
him riding in the streets on a very brave horse ;
upon which occasion, meeting him afterwards
in the court at Somerset house, and speaking of
that brave horse, Moore wished that he had
10,000 of them ; and hoped in a short time that
they might have them, for the catholic cause.
" That one Lawrence (an apothecary in
Drury-lane, over against the end of Queen's
street), when the oaths were upon tendering,
wished, ' That half the parliament were poison-
ed ; for they would ruin tbem all/
" He further said, that he hath heard one
Mr. Messenger (that belongs to the lord Arun-
del), say, « That he hoped to see the catholic
religion flonrish here before it be long. And
as concerning the Plot, he has no more to say/
December 28.
The earl of Essex acquainted the House,
" That he had received an information oat of
the country, of vejg great concernment."
" Staff, u. The Information of Stephen Duo-
dale gent, late servant to the lord Aston
of Tixhall, concerning the Plot against our
sovereign lord the king, as followeth:
" 1. This informant saith, that presently,
M«7] STATE T&A&S, M Charles IL \Q*Q.—Procev4ingi agamst the [tt»
lifter one Howard, Almoner to the queen, went
beyond the seas, he was told by George Hop-
son (servant to the said lord Aston), * That
there was a design then intended, for the refor-
mation of the government to the Romish re-
ligion.'
" 9. He informeth, that, in the beginning of
"September, 1678, he met in Tixall, nigh the
lord's gates, the lord Stafford ; who said to this
informant, ' It was sad that they were troubled
for that they could not say their prayers but in
a hid manner: But suddenly there would be a
reformation to the Romish religion-; and if
there was but a good success, they should en-
joy their religion/ And, upon the SOth day
of September last, the said lord Stafford told
this informant, ' That there was a design in
hand; and if this informant would undertake
the design, he should have a good reward, and
make himself famous.'
" S. Upon the aforesaid day, immediately
after, this informant went into the chamber of
Mr. Francis Vrie alias Evers (a Jesuit), in
Tixall hall, and asked him, ' What the lord
Stafford meant by those words ?' And, after
he had made him to swear secrecy upon his
knees, he told, ' He might be a person em-
Stayed in the work, and have a good reward,
imt would make him famous.' And then he told
him, ' He must be instrumental, with others,
in taking away the king's life ; and that it should
Be done by shooting, or otherwise ; and that
this informant need not fear, for the pope had
excommunicated the king ; and that ail that
were excommunicated by him were heretics,
and they might kill them, and be canonized for
saints in so doing.9
" 4. This informant aaith, that the said Evers
and Hopson both said, ' That the design was
as well to kill the duke of Monmouth as the
king.'
" 5. That George North (nephew to Picke'r-
mg, and servant to the lord Aston) lately told
this informant, * That they had taken bis uncle
(meaning Pickering), and put him into New-
gate ; and thought the king deserved such an
execrable death as was intended him, because
of his whoring and debauchery/
" 6. That Mr. Even said, * Mr. Benny-
field had a packet of letters delivered to him
from the posthouse, which he feared the lord
treasurer had notice of; and therefore he deli-
vered them to the duke of York, and that the
duke of York delivered them to the king ; and
that the king gave them to the treasurer after
lie had read them ; but that the king did not
believe them, and therefore it was happy, or
else the Plot had been discovered."
" 7. That he had receive* many packets of
letters for Evers ; some of which this informant
broke on, and found them to be and tend to
the establishing of the Romish religion, &c.
" 8. That be bad received several sums of
money fiimsel^ aud knew of divers others that
were employed to put Jprtb money, which was
and is for the Jesuits use.
" Stephen Do o dale."
Taken upon oath, the 24th day of
December, 1678, before us,
Tuo. Lame. J. Veeho*.
Ordered, That the earl of Bridgwater and
earl of Essex, do immediately go to the Tower
and examine the lord viscount Stafford npon
this information ; and return before t^e houst
rises.
December 28.
The earl of Bridgwater and the earl ef Etta
reported, " That according to the order ef tan
house tbis morning, they have been with tat
lord viscount Stafford, in the Tower; and hats
examined his lordship ; who said,
" That he spent some part of this last Mai-
mer in the country in Shropshire and StaflM-
sbire; sometime in August lie went to bathe;
and from thence came to London about a weak
after Bartholomew tide.; where he staid woe
days, and then went to Tixall, where he caste
at or near the 12th September.— His lonfcaif
knows Mr. Stephen Dugdale, who be takes is
be the lord Aston's bailiff; but absolutely de-
nies the having then, or at any time either be*
fore or after, bad any discourse with hisa cos*
cerniog a design of introducing die Romaa re-
ligion, or any thing relating thereunto,— Ha
lordohip also owns to know Mr. Evers, who, at
he believes, has lived two or three years in tat
lord Aston's house ; but also denies thehevisf
had any discourse with the said Ever* concern*
ing the introducing of the Romish religion.—
His lordship also knows George Hopaoa, was
waits on the lord Aston in his chamber. North,
he takes to be keeper there.*'
Their lordships further reported, " That the
lord viscount Stafford had two desires t§ pre-
sent to this House : One, that he may have ■»
speedy a trial as may stand with their lordship?
conveniency. The other, that there amy be s
fall House of Peer*."
March 12, 1679.
The earl of Shaftsbury reported, « That tfe
committee appointed yesterday, to consider it
what state the impeachment* in the hut nam**
ment now stand., hava perused the jeurntl of
this house; and find that, the 6th day of D*
cecember 1678, the impeachments against the
five lends now prisoners in the Tower were
brought from the H<mse of Commons, whrtt
consisted of a 'general charge of TVeason sad
ether high crimes ; the House of ComsMi de>
daring they woald in convenient time cites*
Uie articles of their charge against them.
M The next dey, tbis house appointed to p
japon the consideration ef these tmneaconestiS
and all the judges were appointed to be thee
present : But nothing was done thereon.
" The lords comnmteea do also find, that sa
impeachment of high treason, and other kje*
crimes, against Thomas earl of Dseby, k**
Treasurer, was brought ftuna th» JfeM* *
1*39]
STATE TRIALS, S* Chablbs II. lvoU— Ae Popkh Lord*
[1Mb
Commons, the SSrddav of Decern W, 167ft ;
and the particular Articles then exhibited : and
the Commons deAtred'that he might be seques-
tered from his place in parliament, and com-
mitted te safe custody.
" That the Lord Treasurer desired copies of
all papers and proceedings concerning this bu-
siness ; and that it was then resolved, upon the
question, that the Lord Treasurer should not
then withdraw.
" It further appears, that, on the 26th of
December, 1678, the Lord Treasurer moved
the House, for a copy of his charge, and that
lie might not lie long under it : whereupon it
was moved, that the House would consider of
the desire of the House of Commons, concern-
ing hie confinement.
" The debate was adjourned.
" It appears that this House, on the 37th of
December resolved, That the Lord Treasurer
should not now be confined ; and ordered, that he
should have a copy of the Articles/ to which he
was appointed to bring in his Answer before
the third day of January ; and that he might
have counsel to assist him."
Upon report made, by the earl of Shaftes-
tary, from the lords' committees for Exami-
nation of the late horrid Conspiracy, concerning
the Impeachments brought up from the House
of Commons in the last parliament, how they
stand entered in the Journal of this House :
It is ordered, That it be, and is hereby, re-
ferred to the lords committees for privileges to
consider of the state of the said Impeachments,
and all the incidents relating thereunto; and
to report their opinion thereupon unto this
•House.
March 17.
Ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Tem-
poral in parliament assembled, that it be, and
k hereby, referred to the lords committees for
privileges, to consider, " Whether petitions of
afp-peal, which were presented to this House in
Che last parliament, be still in force to be pro*
eeeded on ; as also to consider of the State of
the Impeachments brought up from the House
of Commons last parliament, and all the inci-
dents relating thereunto ;" and make report
thereof onto t be House.
March 18.
'the earl of Esse* reported, "That the lords
committees for privileges, in obedience to the
order of this House, dated the 17th of this
Jnsrant March, have - considered of the matters
referred to them, Whether petitions of appeals,
which were presented to ibis* house in the last
aarhament, ne still in force to be proceeded
lb; as also to consider of the 9tate of the Im-
peachments brooght op from the House of
Common* last par+iament, and aU- the incidents
relating thereunto, and make report thereof
amto the boat* ; and their lordships, upon pe-
ftnttlofttte judgment of this house of the 99th
of March, 1679, are of opinion, that, in all
cakes of appeals and writs of error, they caa-
tinue, and are to be proceeded on, in statu
quo, as they stood at the dissolution of the last
parliament, without beginning dt novo. The
judgment and proceedings being large, are
omitted to be repeated ; the journal of this
House being ready, wherein that judgment is
entered.
" And, upon consideration had of the matter
referred to their lordships concerning the State
of the Impeachments, brought up from, the
House of Commons the last parliament, and
all the incidents relating thereunto, their lord-
ships find, that the five lords who are in the
Tower are upon general impeachment, and the
other lord is impeached with special matter
assigned : they refer the House to the report
made 1? Martii instant, which states what is
entered in the. journal of the last parliament
concerning this matter. And their lordships
are of opinion, that the dissolution of the last
parliament doth not alter the State of the Im-
peachments brought up by the Commons in
that parliament.1'
Ordered, That this report be taken into con*
sideration to-morrow morning, the first bu-
siness,
March 19.
The House took into consideration the re*
port from the- Lords Committees for privileges,
" Whether petitions of appeal, which were pre-
sented the last parliament, be st'tU in force, to
be proceeded on ; and concerning the state of
impeachments brought up from the House of
Commons the last parliament, and all the in-
cidents relating thereunto,"
The House proceeded in the Debate afore-
said. And, after some time spent tberem> it
was desired, " That this question might be pat,
Whether to agree with the committee in this
report?" Then this previous question was pot.*
" Wbether> this question shall be now putr*
And it was resoUred in the affirmative. Thaw
the main question was pot, " Whether to agree
with the committee in this report?" And iff
was resolved in the affirmative.
The House this day taking into consideration
the Report made from the Lords Committees'
for privileges, "That, in pursuance of the
order of the 17th instant^ to them directed, foe
considering whether petitions of appeal, which'
were, presented to this House m the last parlia-
ment, be still in force to be proceeded on, and
for considering of the state of the 'impeach '
ment* brought op from the House of ConmionV
the last parliament, and all the incidents ve-*
lating thereunto ; upon which the Lords Com-
mittee* were of opinion, That/ in all cases of>
' appeals and writs of error, they continue, and*
* are to be proceeded on, in Wain quo, as they
stood at the dissolution of the- last parnaxneet,
withe** beginning de novo; arid that the disso*
lntion- of the last parliament doth not alter tb*<
. state of the impeaohments brought tip by the*
• Commons m that parliament." ♦ -
Aftet some' time spent io consi4eiation there*
,cfi:i ..:*•-: - ♦
v*.
1231 ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. IG80.— Proceedings against the [1 232
lovers of diem, aim! particularly the lord
Shaftesbury, who did most busy himself about
them, said, * That there must be speedy cottie
taken to prevent it/
"And this deponent saith, That, tome tine
after this, the said Prosser told him, * That Uie
' said Messenger was the person ' that promoted
* the killing the lord Shaftesbury.'
" The deponent further saith, That Mr.
Goseen told him, both in Covent Garden and
in the deponent's shop, ' That the king and
' parliament would uodo them ; and if be
' were to kill a roan, he would kill the king as
1 soon as any man ; and if he had him in France,
' he would have killed him before this.'
" This deponent further saith, That, about
six months since, be heard Mr. Mathews, the
lord Petre's priest, say, • That his lord and the
' lord Bellasis, with some other lords, would
1 have a good army ; and that he . hoped (be
' catholic religion would be settled iu England.'
" This deponent further saith, That, about
a year since, he heard Mr. Singleton, a priest,
say in the presence of Mr. Hall, ' That he
* hoped he should be settled in a parish church
' before a twelvemonth ; and that he did not
' fear but that the catholic religion would reiga
' in England ; and that he would not make any
' more matter in stabbing 40 parliament mee,
* than to. eat his dinner/
" The ' deponent saith, That he hatb also
heard Mr. By fleet and Dr. Guildiug say, seve-
ral times, ' That they turned divers peoplt
' from the protectant religion to the catholic
( religion ; and they, hoped they should torn
1 mauy more.'
" The deponent also believes, that the said
Hall knows where the said Singleton, Bvfleet,
and Guilding are ; for that they used to be al-
ways at Hall's house, and the said Hall always
received the money for the said Siogletoiiv
which was to be distributed -for masses for the
dead.
"This deponent further saith, That Mr.
Groves told him, ' That this was no plot, bat a
* plot of the Protestants' own making :' And
when his uncle was condemned, he said, 'That
' they were all rogues that swore against bim.'
The deponent then asking him, * What be
* thought of the 5,000 men which he knew
* were to be raised ?' The said Groves replied,
* That might be in jest.'
" The deponent further saitb, That Mr. Bid-
ley, a chirurgeon at the lord Baltimore's bouse
in Wild-street, told him several times, ' That
* he hoped to he chirurgeon to the Catholic
' army in England ; and that the lord BeJlasi
' would much stand his friend in the concern.
" This deponent further saith, That the lord
Arundel of Warder's butler told bim, ' That
* Mr. Messenger was to kill the king, and that
' he was to have a good reward if he »aved ha
' life ; and if he were killed, the said reward
* should t»e distributed amougtt such friends a*
' he should appoint, by the lord Arundel, the
4 earl Powis, aud the rest of the lords that
' in th« same Plot.' 2
It is Resolved, by the Lords Spiritual aod
Temporal in parliament assembled, That this
House agrees with the Lords Committees in the
port.
March 90.
The lord bishop of Bath and Wells reported
from the Lords Committees for examining mut-
ters relating to the discovery of the late horrid
Conspiracy, the Examination of Miles Prance,
which was read as follows :
" Midd. ss. et Lib. Westm.
*' The Examination of Miles Prance, Silver-
smith, taken upon oath, the 19th diry of
March, 1678, before the marquis of Win,
cheater, one of bis majesty's Justices, of
Peace for the said county and liberty.
" This exaininant saith, That he, and Mr.
Maddison a barber in Hoi borne, and Mr.
StaJey, were drinking at the Cross Keys Ta-
vern over- against Staley 's bouse about a fort-
night before the said Staley was taken; where,
complaining of the great persecution that the
papists lay under, and that if they did not take
some speedy course to destroy their enemies,
they should be ruined, the said Staley and
Maddison resolved to kill the earl of Shaftes-
bury, as the ringleader of the mischief that they
feared would fall upon them ; Maddison saying,
' That i^e would engage three, (videlicet,)
' Adamson a watchmaker, Prosser a siverimith,
' and Bradshaw an upholsterer/ And the said
Maddison coming afterwards to the deponent's
shop, shewed the deponent a pistol h<* had pre-
pared for that purpose.
" This deponent further saith, That meeting
with Adamson at Pet tie's, at The WLite Post
in Vere Street, and discoursing of news, Adam-
son said, * That they sbodld all be uudone, if
' they did not look 'about them; therefore they
*were resolved to kill the lord Shaftesbury;'
he also speaking tbe same thing to the depo-
nent at The Gridiron in Holborne.
* " This deponent likewise saith, That Prosser
told him,- 'That he was undone; and he io-
* tended to kill the lord Shaftesbury ; for he, with
' other of the Lords, intended to undo the lord
' Arundel, who was his very good customer :'
The said Prosser telling the deponent at another
time, ' That he was to be an ensign under the
'. said lord Arundel/
" This deponent also saith, That Bradshaw,
in discourse with him, said, * That he would
' make no' more to kill a Protestant, than to
* kill a doc or a cat ; and that lie was resolved
4 to kill some of the busy lords; but the first
' should be the lord Shaftesbury/ And the
said Prosser shewed the deponent a pistol at the
same time.
" This depoaent further saith, That he the
deponent, Mr. Messenger, Prosser, and Mad*
dieon, were at Bradlies, in Hoiboroe, about
&** weeks before Staley was taken ; where tbe
said Mesaeoger much complaining of the se-
verity of the laws that were against the papists,
and much fearing that they would be put in
execution against them by some thai were no
1233]
STATE TRIALS, 3* Charles IL \6Z0.— Five Popish Lord*.
[1234
" The deponent farther with, That, meeting
with Mr. Messenger after that, he asked the
said Messenger, ' Why he would kill the king?"
The said Messenger answered, ' Who told you
' of it F The .deponent saying, ' Your butler
* told me ;' the said Messenger replied, ' We
4 are off that thing now ;' therefore desired roe
not to speak of it to any body. Afterwards the
•aid Butler came to the deponent's shop, and
told the deponent, ' That he had received great
.' anger, in that he had told the deponent of
' what Messenger was to attempt/
" This deponent further saiin, That, some-
what above half a year since, he heard Mr.
Wallston Paston say, < That young sir Henry
< Beddi»g6eld,ofOxburrougb Hall, in Norfolk,
' was to have a commission from my- lord Arun-
* del, for a troop of horse in the army to be
* raised by the Papists.' Miles Prance."
'Capt. et jurat, coram me, 19 Martii, 1678/
Winchester.
March 32.
The earl of Clarendon reported, from the
Committee of Examinations, an Information
of Miles Prance ; which was read, as follows :
"In the month af August, 1078, I having
occasion to write to a friend in the country,
but not well knowing how to send, I went to
Mr. Paston, who lodged at one Bamber's, a
tailor, in Duke-street, who gave me an account
where to send to him ; and we immediately
fell into discourse concerning the present pos-
ture of affairs, and he bid me, * Not fear ; for
' we should suddenly have better times ; for, in
* the first place, he said, that the king was a
* great heretic ; and that the lord Bellasis, and
* lord Arundel, and Jord Powis, and lord Pe-
* ters, would hare a very good army for the
* deposing of the king, and the suppression of
' all the heretics ; and then the Catholic reli-
* gion should be established and flourish in this
* nation/ He also said, 'That the above
' named lords had given out commissions al-
4 ready to some gentlemen in the country,
4 whom be named to me ; that was, to one Mr.
4 Talbot of Longford, and to sir Henry Benni-
* feild of Oxberrow Hall, in Norfolk, and one
'Mr. Stoner, who lives within 4 or 5 miles of
4 Kingston upon Thames/
*' Also, about two years ago, one Townly, of
Townly in Lancashire, came up to London with
his two sons that he was carrying over to
Do way. He also brought along with him his
two brothers, to keep him company ; and they
took lodgings at one Ayrie's house in Drory-
Lane, where Phenwick lodged, and in a short
time two of them went over to Doway with the
two lads ; and left the other here, who, in the
absence of his brothers, declared very often to
my wife's brother and to Adamson, * That,
* when his brothers came back again from
4 Doway, they expected commissions from the
' above named lords, for the raising of men to
4 carry on the Catholic cause/ This my bro-
ther and Adamson often told me at Pettley's in
Vere-street, where we had a club very often of
none but Papists, Miles Paaxck,"
vol, VII,
" Also, abont the time that the four lords
were in 'the Tower, that is, the duke of Buck-
ingham, my lord Shaftesbury, and lord Whar-
tou, and lord Salisbury, that one Mr. Rightly
came to me, and greatly rejoicing at their im-
prisonment; said, ' That now is the time for
1 the promoting of Catholic religion, because
1 of the difference that was amongst the lords ;
* and that, if the duke of York did but follow
i * the business closely, which the Catholics had
* ground to believe he would, they did not
' doubt but that it would be settled at that
' present juncture of time/ Miles Pbance."
March 27.
The earl of Bridgwater acquainted the House,
44 That, when he and the earl of Clarendon and
the earl of Essex were at the Tower, the lord
Bellasis and the lord viscount Staifurd de-
sired their lordships to represent their desires
to his majesty, That they may have liberty for
persons to come to them upon their occasions;
and their lordships moving his majesty here-
in, he leaves it to this House to consider of
it."
Hereupon the House made this Order fallow*
illg:
" It being represented to this House, That
the lord viscount Stafford and the lord Bellasis,
now prisoners in the Tower; do humbly desire
that they may have the liberty of persons com-
ing to them, for preparing themselves for their
defence, and ordering their own affairs: Upon
consideration had thereof, it is ordered, by the
Lords spiritual and temporal in parliament as-
sembled, That the lord viscount Stafford and
lord Bellasis, and the other Lords prisoners in
the Tower, shall have the benefit of the access
of such persons to them, or any of them, as
may be useful to them for the purposes afore-
said, so as the said Lords do cause lists of
the names of such persons as are from time
to time so to be made use of by them respec-
tively, to be forthwith brought iiuo this Uousc."
April 1.
This day Benedict Prosser was brought to the
bar; and Miles Prance, being called in, charg-
ed Prosser, " That he came to his shop, and
said, ' That he was undone; and that he did
intend to kill the lord Shaftsbury, for he with
other of the Lords did intend to undo the lord
Arundel, who was his very good customer/
And the said Prosser also told him, at Brad-
ley's in Holborn, * That he was to be an ensign
under the lord Arundel/ "
Miles Prance further said," That he and Mr.
Messenger, and Prosser, and Mattison, were at
Bradley s in Holborn, about five weeks before
Staley was taken; and Messenger much complain*
ing of the severityof the laws that were against the
catholics, and much fearing they would be put
in execution against them bv some that were
not lovers of the catholics, and particularly the
lord Shaftesbury, who did most busy himself
about them, and therefore he said, ' That there
must be speed v course taken to prevent it;'
4K
1235] STATE TRIALS, S$ Charles IL \&W.—P*oc*&hg* again* the [1296
and that, after their meeting at the Cross Keys,
by Staley's, he met with Prosper at Bradley's,
where he told, him, That Me»>eneer was the
pertonahat promoted the killing of the lord
Sh:ift*bury.'*
Hereupon the House made the Order follow-
ing:
" Whereas Benedict Prosser was this day
Ixroucht to the bar by the Gentleman Usher of
the Black Hod attending this House, and was
there charged upon oath with matters amount-
ing fo high-treason : It is ordered, by the Lords
'spiii.'iml and temporal in parliament assembled,
That the said Benedict Prosser be forthwith
conveyed to the prison of Newgate, by the said
gentleman usher or his deputy or deputies,
there to remain in ssife custody till he shall be
discharged by due course of law; and that the
keeper ef Newgate take care that no person be
admitted to the said Benedict. Prosser except
his wife, till further order; and this shall be a
sufficient warrant on that behalf.
" To the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod
attending this House, and to the keeper of
Newgate, and their respective deputies, and
•very of them.'9
April 7,
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons by the lord Russel and others ; who
was commanded, by the House of Commons,
to bring up Articles of Impeachment of High-
Treason, and other high crimes and offences,
against William earl of Powys, William vis-
count Stafford, Henry lord Arundel of War-
dour, WillUm lord Petre, and John lord Bel-
iaMS, now prisoners in the Tower of London.
The said Articles were read, as followed) :
Artict.es of Impeachment, of High Treason,
and other high crimes and offences, against
William earl of Powis, Willi am viscount
STAFFonn.HENRY lord A run del of War-
dour, William lord Pet is e and John
lord Bellasis, now prisoners in the Tower
of London.
* u That, for many years now Inst past, there
riath been contrived and carried on, by papists, a
traiterous and execrable Conspiracy* and Plot,
within this kingdom of England and other
fdaces, to alter, change and subvert the ancient
government and laws of this kingdom and na-
tion, and (o suppress the true religion therein
established, and to extirpate and destroy the
firofessers thereof ; which said Plot and Con-
spiracy wits contrived and carried on in divers
.places, and by several ways and means, and
t>y a 3 re at number of persons of several qua-
lities and degrees, who acted therein, and in-
tended thereby to execute and accomplish the
•aforesaid wicked and traiterpus designs and
purposes.
*• That the «aid William earl of Powys, Wil-
liam viscount Stafford, Henry lord Arundel of
Wnrdour, William lord Petre, and John lord
Beilasis, together with Philip Howard, com-
suooiy called cardinal of Norfolk, Thomas
White, alias Whrtebread commonly called pro-
vincial of the Jesuits in England, Richard
Strange, lately called provincial of the Jesuits
in England, Vincent commoalv called
the provincial of the Dominicans in Eng-
land, James* Corker, commonly called pre-
sident of the Benedictines, sir John War-
ner, alias Clare, baronet, William Harcoort,
John Keins, Nicholas Blondel, — — — Pole,
Edward Mico, Thomas Bedingfield, alias Be-
nefit Id, Basiil Langworth, Charles Peters,
Richard Peters, John Connjers, sir George
Wakeman, Thomas Feawick, Dominick Kelly,
Fitzgerrald, Evefs,sir Thomas Preston,
William Lovell, Jesuits, lord Bartemore, John
Carrcli; John Townley, Richard Langhoro,
William Fogarty, Thomas Penny, Mathe*
Med bourne, Edward Coleman, William Ireland,
John Grove, Thomas Pickering, John Sunk,
and divecs other Jesuits, priests,- friars and other
persons, as false traitors to his majesty and
this kingdom, within the time aforesaid, hare
traitorously consulted, contrived, and acted, to
and for the accomplishing of the said wicked
pernicious, and traiterous designs; and, for
that end, did most wickedly and traitcroasl;
agree, conspire, and resolve, to imprison, de-
pose, and murder, his sacred majesty, and to
deprive him of. his royal state, crown and dig-
nity ; and, by malicious and advised speaxiag,
writing and otherwise, declared such their pur-
poses and intentions ; also to subject this king-
dom and nation to the pope and his tyrannical
•government ; and to seize and share amongst
themselves the estates and inheritances of kit
majesty's Protestant subjects ; and to erect
4uid restore abhies, monasteries, and other con-
vents and societies, which have seen long since
by the mws of this kingdom suppressed, far
their superstition and idolatry j and todehw
up and restore to them the lands and pwses-
sious now vested in his majesty and his subject*
by the laws and statutes of this realm ; sod
also to found and erect new monasteries end
convents, and to remove and deprive all Pro-
testant bishops, and other ecclesiastical per-
sons, from their offices, benefices, and prerer-
in wit g, and by this means to destroy bis ma-
jesty's person, extirpate the Protestant rehgieo,
overt I wow the rights, liberties, and proper-
ties of all his majesty's good subjects, tub-
vert the lawful government of this kingdom,
and subject the same to the tyranny of d*
see of Rome.
" That the said conspirators and their com-
plices and confederates, traiterously had aod
held several meetings, assemblies, and couot-
tations^wherein it was contrived and designed
among them what means should be used, sad
what persons and instruments should be em-
ployed, to murder his majesty ; and did then
and there resolve to effect it by poisoning,
shooting, stabbing, or some such like ways a^
means, and offered rewards and promises of id-
vantage to several persons to execute the same;
and hired and employed several wicked personfp
to go to Windsor and other places! where bk
1337]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Cham.es II. 10*0.— Fare Popish Lord*. [1239
majesty did reside, to murder and destroy his
snajesty ; which said persons, or some of them,
accepted such rewards, and undertook the per-
petrating (hereof, and . did actually go to the
said places for that end and purpose.
" That the said conspirators, the better to
compass their troiterous designs, have consulted
to raise, and have procured and raised, men,
money, Worses, arms, and ammunition, and
also have made application to, and treated and
corresponded with, the pope, his. cardinals,
nuncios, and agents, and with other foreign mi-
nisters and persons, to raise and obtain supplier
of men, money, arms, and ammunition, there-
with to make, levy, and raise war, rebellion,
and tumults, within this kingdom! and to in-
vade the same with foreign forces, and to sur-
prize, seize, and destroy, his majesty's navy,
torts, magazines, and places of strength, within
this kingdom; whereupon the calamities of.
war, murders of innocent subjects, meu, women,
and children, burnings, rapines, devastations,
and other dreadful miseries and mischiefs,
must inevitably have ensued, to the ruin and
destruction of this uation.
" And the said conspirators have procured
and accepted, aud delivered out, several instru-
ments, commissions, and powers, made or
granted by or under the pope, or other unlaw-
ful and usurped authority, to raise and dispose
ot men, monies, arms, and other things neces-
sary for their wicked and traiterous designs ;
and namely, a commission for the said Henry
lord Aruudell of Wardour, to be lord chan-
cellor of England ; another commission to the
said William earl of Powys, to be lord trea-
surer of England; another commission to the
said John lord Bellasis, to be general of the
army to be raised ; another commission to toe
said William lord Pet re, to b,e lieutenant ge-
neral of the said army ; and a power for the
•aid William viscount Stafford, to be pay-
master of the army.
•• That, in order to encourage themselves in
'prosecuting their said wicked plots, conspira-
cies, and treasons; and to hide and hinder the
discovery of the same, and to secure themselves
from justice atid punishment, the conspirators
aforesaid, their complices and confederates,
have used many wicked and diabolical prac-
tices; viz. they did cause their priests to ad-
minister to the said conspirators an oath' of se-
crecy, together with their sacrament ; and also
did cause their said priests, upon confessions,
Co give their absolutions upon condition that
f bey should Conceal the said conspiracy; and
when, about the month of September last, sir
jfidtbondbury Godfrey, a justice of peace, had,
according to the duty of his oath and office,
taken several examinations and informations
concerning the Said conspiracy arid plot, the
said conspirators, or some of them, by advice,
assent, counsel; and instigation of the rest,
did incite and procare divers persons to lie
to wait and pursue' the said sir Edmondbury
Godfrey divert days with intent to murder him,
trfckfc aUflttwa* perpetrated and effected by
them; for which said horrid crimes and of-
fences, Robert Green, Henry Berry, and l^aw-
rence Hill, have since been attainted, and Domi-
nick Kelly, and Giratd, and others, are
fled for the same ; after which murder, and be-
fore the body was found, or the murder known
to any but the accomplices therein, the said
persons fairly gave out that he was alive, and
privately married ; and, after the body found,
dispersed a false and malicious report that ha
had murdered himself j which said murder was
committed with design to stifle and suppress tin?
evidence he had taken and had know ledge of,
and discourage and deter magistrates and
others from acting in further discovery of tha
said conspiracy and plot ; for which end also
the said sir Edmund bury Godfrey, while he
was alive, was, by them, their accomplices and
favourers, threatened and discouraged in hif
proceedings about the some ; aud, of their
further malice, they have wickedly -contrived^
by many false suggestions, to lny the imputa-
tion and guilt of the aforesaid horrid and de-
testable crimes upon the protesiants, that so
thereby they might escape the punishments
they have justly deserved, and expose the pren
testants to great scandal, and. subject them 40
persecution aud oppression in all kingdoms and
countries where the Romish religion is receive
ed and professed.
" All which treasons, crimes and offences,
above-mentioned, were contrived, committed,
f>erpeirated, acted and done, by the said W il-
ia m earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford,
William lord Petre, Henry lord Arundel of
Wardour, and Johu lord Belesis, and other
the conspirators aforesaid, against our sove*
reign lord the king, his crown and dignity,
and against the laws aad statutes of this king*
dom.
" Of all which treasons, crimes, and offences,
the knights, citizens, aud burgesses, in par*
liament assembled, do, in the name of them*
selves and of all the Commons of England,
impeach the said William earl of Powi», Wd«
ljam viscount Stafford, William lord Petre,
Henry lord Arundel of Wardour, aud John
lord Bellasis, and ewery of them.
" And the said Commons by protestation,
saving to themselves the liberty of exhibiting
at any time hereafter any other accusations or
impeachments against the said William earl of
Powjs, William viscount Stafford, William lord
Petre, Henry lord Arundel of Wardour, and
John lord Bellasis, and every of tfiem, and
also of replying to the answers which they and
every of them shall make to the premises or;
any of them, or to any or her accusation or im-
peachment which shall he by them exhibited
(as tfie cause accord ins; to course and proceed-
ings of parliament shall require), do pray, that
the said William earl of Potfis, William vis-
count Stafford, William lord Petre, Henry lord
Arundel of Wardour, and John lord Bellasis.
and every of them, be put to answer all and
every of the premises ; and that such proceed-
ings," examinations, trials, and judgments, ma^
1339] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I6&0.—Procteding$ against the [1240
be upon them and every of them had and used,
as shall be agreeable to law and justice, and
course of parliament."
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
in parliament assembled, That the Lords'
committees for privileges do meet this after-
noon, to consider of the method and progress
of (he proceedings to be had upon the Trials of
the Lords now prisoners in the Tower, upon the
impeachments brought up against them from
the House of Commons ; and that the Lord
Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas,
Mr. Baron Thurland, and his majesty's Attor-
ney General, do attend their lorcUhips this af-
ternoon, in the House of Peers.
April 8.
The earl of Shaftesbury reported, from the
Lords' committees for privileges, to whom was
referred to consider of the method and progress
of the proceedings to be had upon the trials of
the lords now prisoners in the Tower, upon the
impeachments brought up against them from
the House of Commons,
" That their lordships are of opinion, that
the lords now prisoners in the Tower ought to
be brought to<4he bar together, and kneel
there ; and then stand up, and hear the arti-
cles of the charge against them read. — That the
•aid lords may have counsel, to plead for them
in matter of law, but not in matter of fact. —
That such counsel as the said lords shall name
to the House, shall have free liberty of access
to their lordships, in order to their trials. — That
the said lords shall have free liberty of any
person coming to them, so as the Lieutenant
do give this House an account next morning of
such persons as have been with them the day
before, if the House do then sit ; otherwise to
give the said account to one of the secretaries
of state, and after to the House at tlieir next
sitting. — That in regard that, in cases of im-
peachments in parliament, the Lord High
Steward, or Lord Steward of the Housbold,
being of right to supply the place of Speaker
in the House of Peers, an humble address may
be made to bis majesty, That he will be pleased
to appoint a Lord High Steward, to supply'tbe
place of Speaker of the House of Peers, during
the time of the said trial."
This Report was read, and agreed to.
Whereas William earl of Powis, William
lord viscount Stafford, William lord Petre,
Henry lord Arundel of Warder, and John lord
Bellasis, now prisoners in the Tower of Lon-
don, are impeached of High Treason, &c. by
the CoDr.mnns, in pari in men t assembled, who
have brought into this House particular articles
ligainst them :
It is this day ordered, by the Lords spiritual
and temporal in parliament assembled, That
the Lieutenant of the said Tower be, and is
hereby, required to bring the said earl of Powis,
lord viscount Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundell
of Warder, and lord Bellasii, in safe custody, to
lb* bar of this bouse to-morrow, at XO of the
clock in the forenoon, to hear the said
wherewith tbey stand charged read unto tbem ;
and for so doing, this shall be his sufficient
warrant.
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
in parliament assembled, That the earl o( Bed'
ford, earl of Bridgewater, and earl of Aylesbury
do attend his majesty, humbly to desire Kin,
from this House, " That in regard that, io cases
of impeachments in parliament, the lord high
steward, or lord steward of the houshold, being
of right to supply the place ot Speaker in the
House of Peers, his majesty will be pleased to
appoint a lord high steward to supply the place
of Speaker of the House of Peers, during the
time of the trials of the lords now prisoners in
the Tower, upon their Impeachments."
Whereas William earl of Powt», William
viscount Stafford, Wdiiam lord Petre, Henry
lord Arundell of Warder, and John lord Bella*
sis, now prisoners in the Tower of London, be-
ing impeached by the House of Commons of
high treason, are to make thtir respective de-
fences upon their trials:
It is this day ordered, by the Lords spiritual
and temporal in parliament assembled. That
the said lords may have counsel to plead for
them, in matter of law, but not in matter of
fact ; and that such counsel as the said lords
shall name to this House shall have free liberty
of access to their lordships, in order to their
trials; as alto any other persons to come to
them, so as the lieutenant of the Tower do give
this House an account next morning of such
persons as have been with them respectively
the day before, if the House do then sit; »ther-
wise he is to give the said account to one of the
secretaries of state, aud after to the House at
their next sitting.
The earl of Bedford reported, " That hi
self and the other lords, who were appointed to
attend his majesty with the humble Address of
this House, to desire his majesty, He would be
pleaded to appoint a Lord High Steward, to
supply i he place of Speaker of the House of
Peers, during the time of the trials of the lords
now prisoners in the Tower, upon their tm-
Eeacbments, had attended his majesty : And
is majesty gives this answer, That be will
speedily give order for a commission for a Lord
High Steward, as is desired."
April 9.
The question being put, " Whether, when
the lords come to the bar, the doors shall be
left open ?" It was resolved in the negative.
This day being appointed for William earl of
Powis, William viscount Stafford, William lord
Petre, Henry lord Arundell of W ardour, and
John lord Bellasis, prisoners in the Tower, to
be brought to the bar, to hear the Articles of
Impeachment of High-Treason, wherewith they
are charged by the House of Commons, read
unto them; the gentleman usher of the black
rod was commanded to call for them in.
Upon which, the said earl of Powis, viscount.
1341] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. \6S0.-Five Popish Lords.
[124*
Stafford, lordPetre, and lord Arundell of War*
dour, were brought to ihe bar, by the- lieutenant
of the Towei ; where they kneeled, till the Lord
Chancellor bid them stand up.
Then, by command of the house, the said
Articles of Impeachment were read unto«them.
Alter which, the Loid Chancellor asking
them, what they had to say tor themselves (let-
ting ti-em know that his majesty would appoint
ft Lord High Steward for their trials ;) the said
lords made stverul requests unto the House, in
order to their answering the said charge, and
making heir dt fences upon their trials.
Which requests (the haul lords being with-
drawn) the House took into consideration.
And, after some time spent therein, the said
lords were called to the bar qgain ; and the Lord
Chancellor did let their lordships know, " That
the House had considered oi their requests;
and bad ordered that the several indictments
found against them, the said earl of Powis, vis-
count Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundell of
Wardour, and 1 >rd Bellasis, by the grand jury,
•ball be brought into this Court by Wnt of
Certiorari; and that their lordships may have
copies of the said Articles of Impeachment ;
and shall have time given them, till Tuesday
the 15th day of this instant April, to send in
their respective answers thereunto, with further
time to answer to any new Articles that shall
be brought up against them; and shall have
liberty to starch and take nut copies of Records
and Journals, in order to their defence ; and
that the*r lordships snail have summons issued
for such witnesses as they shall respectively
•end in the names of, to be by them made use
of at their trials; which witnesses shall have
the protection or this House, for their safe com-
ing and going, during tie time of the sa>d trial* ;
and that their lorrtship* shall have those per-
sons assigned to the m for counsel, in order to
their defences upon their trials, whom they
have respectively named to this House; and
lastly, that all the peers shall be summoned, to
the end there may be a full House at the said
trials."
Then, notice being taken by the House, that
the lord Bellasis had not appeared at the bar ;
Thomas Plessmgton and Robert Dent, being
•worn at the bar, attested, " That the lord
Bellasis is at this present so ill and lame with
the gout, that he is not able to *tir out of his
lied, nor to turn himself in his bed without
help."
Which reasonable excuse the House allowing
of; the said Thomas Plessington, on behalf of
the lord Bellasis, desired, " That hi* lordship
might have a copy of the Articles; and that
counsel (whom be named) might be assigned to
him."
Which, with the other requests made by the
lords who appeared, were equally condescended
to, for the lord Bellasis, as for the other four
lords.
Then the House made tho Order following;
« Whereas William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, William lord Petre, and
Henry lord Arundel of Wardour, have appear*
ed this day at the bar, to hear the Articles read;
whereby they, together with John lord Bellasis,
are charged upon impeachment of high trea-
son : It is ordertd, That the said William earl
of Powi*, William viscount Stafford, William
lord Petre, Henry loid Arundel, and John lord
Bellasis, shall stand committed to the Tower of
London, there to be kept in safe custody, in
order to their trials ; having the same liberty
of access of persons to them as they had before
this day ; and this shall be a sufficient warrant
on that behalf.
" To the Lieutenant of the Tower
of London, his deputy and de-
puties, and every of them/'
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
in parliament assembled, That his majesty's
Writ of Certiorari vi>e issued, returnable into
the House of Peers in parliament assembled,
for bringing into this court the several indict-
ments, with all things thereunto belonging,
whereby William earl of Powis, William vis*
count Stafford, William lord Petre,' Henry lord
Arundel of Wardour, and John lord Bellasis,
are found guilty of high treason.
It is this day ordered, by the Lords spiritual
and temporal in parliament assembled, That
Mr. Saunders and Mr. Holt, counsellors at law,
be, and are hereby, assigned to be of counsel,
with William earl of Powis, now prisoner in
the Tower, in order to his defence upon his
trial, upon the impeachment of the House of
Commons, whereby he is charged with high
treason ; and that they, the said Saunders and
Mr. Holt, may ha\e free access to the said earl
of Powis, from time to time, for that purpose.
William viscount Stafford ; the like Order
for Mr. Saunders, and Mr. Anthony Keck.
William lord Petre ; the like Order for Serj.
Raymond, Mr. Wallop, Mr. Saunders, and Mr,
Bradbury.
Henry lord Arundel of Wardour; the like
Order for Mr. Saunders, Mr. Pollexfen, and
Mr. Holt.
John lord Bellasis; the like Order for sir
Thomas Skipwith, and Mr. Saunders.
Forasmuch as several Peers are upon their
trials lor their lives, and that it is the duty of
the whole body of the Peers to attend that
service : It is therefore this day ordered, bj
the Lords spiritual and temporal in parliament
assembled, That the Lord Chancellor do write
letters to every Peer now absent, and able to
travel without danger of life, forthwith to come
to town, and remain here, attending the ser-
vice of this House, until the said trials be
over ; intimating to them therein, " That, if
they shall not attend the service of this House
according to summons, this House will send ft
serjeant at arms, to bring them up in custody."
This House being moved, "That the lord
Petre, prisoner in the Tower, who hath ap-
peared at the bar this day, may have leave to
see his lady, now lying-in ;"
If 43] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. lC&0—ProcceJ&& agtxhut the [1244
It » ordered, by the Lords spiritual and
temporal in parliament assembled, That tbe
said lord Pet re, attended by tbe' Lieutenant of
the Tower, and such guards as he thinks, fit,
be, and is hereby, authorised and permitted to
call and see bis lady, now lying-in, in his return
to the Tower,
April 12,
The House took into consideration, " Whe-
ther to revoke thejDrder made for the lords
in the Tower to have liberty of having copies
out of the Journals of this House, to be made
use of for iheir defence at their trials."
The opinion of the Lord Chief Justice of the
Common Pleas', Baron Thurland, and Mr.
Attorney General, was required upon this
case :
" Whether, in inferior courts, a prisoner that
Stands in question for his life may be denied
copies of any entries up oif llecord for his de-
fence?" -
And their unanimous opinion is, "That no
Srisoner indicted for any capital offence in the
king's Bench, can have a copy of the indict-
vent, without order of the court.
" That such a prisoner cannot of right de-
mand copies of informations of witnesses against
ium."
Tbe House came to no resolution herein.
It is this day ordered, That Mr. Henry Law-
ion he, and is hereby, assigned to be solicitor
•for the earl of Powis, viscount Stafford, lord
Petre, lord Arundel of Wardour, and lord Bel-
lasis, now prisoners in the Tower, upon their
lordships request for that purpose, to look after
find manage such matters as may concern ihem,
or any of them, in oider to their tiials; and
that the said Henry Lawson may, from time to
time, till (he said trials shall be over, have free
liberty of access to their lordships, or any of
them, for that purpose.
Ordered, That Mr. Thompson is aligned
counsel fnr tbe lord Uellatis, and Mr. Hunt fc
the lord viscount Stafford.
April 15.
This day being appointed for the lords pri-
soner* in the Tower to put in their Answers to
the Articles of Impeachment of the House of
Commons against them ; which being called
for, and not come :
It is ordered, by the Lords spiritual and tem-
poral in parliament assembled, That the earl
of Powis, lord viscount Stafford, lord Petre,
and lord Arundel of Wardour, be brought to
the bar of this House to-morrow morning, at
eleven o'clock, by the Lieutenant of the Tower,
to put in their respective Answers to the sain*
Articles of Impeachment: And this shall be a
Sufficient warrant on that behalf.
It was moved, "That the lord Bellasis's
Answer might be received now, in regard of
bis lordship's sickness."
Which toe Howe received, and read, as fol*
loweth ;
Lokd Bellasis's Ahswbb, to mslxnaci*
MEJiT.
" The several Plea of John lord Bellasis, now
prisoner in the Tower of London, to part,
and his several Answer to the residue, of
the Articles of Impeachment of High
Treason, and other Crimes and Offences,
exhibited to the Lords Spiritual and Tem-
poral in Parliament assembled, against
the said Lord, and others therein named,
whereof the said Lord stands impeached,
by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses
in Parliament assembled, in the name of
themselves and of all the Commons of
England.
" The said lord, in tbe first place, and be*
fore all others, protesting his innocence of aid
from ail tbe treasons, and other crimes aad
offences whatsoever, ia the said article* con-
tained, and no way acknowledging, confessing,
granting, or admitting, all or any the clause*,
articles, or matters, in the said articles of im-
peachment contained or specified, so far as tbe
same any way conoeros him, to be trae, as is
and by the same articles of impeachment ii
supposed; and humbly praying a favourable
construction by this most honourable House of
what the said lord shall humbly offer, by ft*)
of plea, to such part of the impeachment as a
hereunder mentioned, and that the same rosy
not be taken or construed as any subterfuge ot
evasion of the justice of this most honourable
House, to which tbe said lord doth, wilb all
humility, wholly submit himself; dewing
above all things the trial of his caase by lbs
most honourable House, so that he ma? bf
provided to make his just defence, for the
clearing of his innocenct* from the ureal aad
heinous crimes charped upon him by the »■
impeachment: Thi» bt ing pra\ed, as sisoa*
l*er»y f«i Current, amend, or expi:t>n'9 s"J *bi°J
in tins \n\ plea and amwer, con rained, wbwfc
may any way give thi? honourable House aaj
occasion of otfciioe ; and, lie hopeth, beisf
granted; the said lord, as to thai part of ibt
impeachment which cbntaineth tbe matter fol-
lowing ; name lyr ' That, for niaay years not
4 la*t pHsr, theie hath heen contrived and c^
4 ried on, bj Papists, a tmiterous and eiecrabfc
4 conspiracy and plat, within this kingdom of
4 England and other phicea, to alter, chsogft,
* and subvert, the ancient government aw
* laws of this kingdom and nation, and to wp*
4 press the true religion therein established,
* and to extirpate and destroy the professor*
4 thereof; and that the said plot and conip>
4 racy was contrived and carried on, in direJ*
' places, and by several way* and means, **■
1 oy a great number of persons of sererai qaa>
'lities and degrees, who acted therein, audio*
' tended thereby to execute and accoropbas
4 their aforesaid wicked and traiterosa d«sitf«
' and purposes ; that the said John lord BeM*
* sis, and the other lords therein named, tpgew*
' with several other persons therein h'kewij*
< imined or snenUooed, a*falte traitosstow*
1245]
STATE TRIALS, S2 Cbahles IL 1680.— Fitc Popish Lw4$.
(19dC
majesty and this kingdom, within the lime
aforesaid, have traiterously consulted, con-
trived, and acted, to and for the accomplish-
ing the said wicked, pernicious, and trailer-
ous designs; and, for that end, did most
wickedly and tiaiterously agree, conspire, and
resolve, to imprison, depose, and murder, bis
sacred majesty, and to deprive him of his
royal estate, (frown, and dignity; and, 'by
malicious and advised speaking, writing, and
otherwise declaring, such their purposes and
intentions; and also to subject this kingdom
and nation to the pope, and to his tyrannical
government ; and to seize and share amongst
themselves the estates and inheritances of his
majesty's Protestant subjects; and to erect
and restore abbies, monasteries, and other
convents and societies, which have been long
since, by the laws of this kingdom, suppressed,
for their superstition and idolatry; and to
deliver up and restore to them the lands and
possessions now vested in his majesty and his
subjects by the laws and statutes of this realm,
and also to found and erect new monasteries
and convents ; and to remove aad deprive all
Protestant bishops, and other ecclesiastical
persons, from their offices, benefices, and pre-
ferments ; and by this means to destroy his
majesty's person, extirpate the Protestant re-
ligion, overthrow the rights, liberties, and pro-
perties, of all his majesty's good subjects, sub-
vert the lawful government of this kingdom,
and subject the same to the tyranny of the
see of Rome ; and that the said conspirators,
aad their accomplices aad confederates, trai-
terously had and held several meetings, as-
semblies, and consultations, wherein it was
contrived and designed amongst them, what
means should be wsed, and what persons and
instruments should be employed, to murder
his majesty; and did then ami there resolve
to effect it by poisoning, shooting, stabbing,
or some such hke ways and means f and also
to that part of the Impeachment which charg-
enb, ' That the said lord Bellasis, and the other
4 persons in the said Impeachment named, the
' tetter to compass their traiterous designs,
* have consulted to raise men, money, horses,
« arms, and ammunition ;' the said lord, saving
to himself the liberty of answering over and
denying all and singular the said crimes and
offences charged upon him, saith, and humbly
efrereth to this most honourable House, that
tbe charge of those crimes and offences, so im-
posed upon him by the said Impeachment, is
ao general and uncertain, that he cannot by any
possibility give any direct answer thereto, nor
make "his just and lawful defence upon any
trial of the same ; for that the said charge bath
no manner of certainty in point of time, it be-
ing said only, ' for many years now last past, a
* traitorous and execrable Plot and Conspiracy
* hath been contrived and carried on ;' which
snay be for 5, %10, 20, or 80, or more years
past; whereby, although the said lord know-
eth himself to be altogether innocent of any
audi horrid and. detestable crimes as by the
said Impeachment are objected against him,
yet it is no way possible for him, upon any trial
thereof^ to be pre} a red with his just and lawful
defence, by witnesses, to prove himself absent
and in another place at tiie time of such meet-
ing or consultation to or for any the wicked de-
signs and purposes in the taid impeachment
mentioned, as upon his trial may be suddenly
objected against him,1 when he cannot by any
care or foresight whatsoever have such* wit-
nesses ready as could disprove the same, if
he were certainly charged for any traiterous
act or crime at any time certainly oil edged in
the said impeachment ; nor is the same charge
in the said impeachment more certain as to
the place of any such traiterous meeting or
consultation laid down in the said impeach-
ment,- it being only alleged to be * at divers
' places within the realm of England and else-
* where;' which, for the causes aforesaid, is
likewise so utterly uncertain, that it deprives
the said lord of his iust defence upon his trial:
The incertainty likewise of the number of
meetings or consultations to the wicked pur-
poses in the impeachment mentioned, and the
not shewing how many times the said lord met
and consulted, and with whom in particular,
doth likewise deprive him of all possibility of
making his defence, or producing his witnesses;
for that the said lord Bellasis, being wholly in-
nocent, cannot suppose or imagine what meet-
ing or consultation, either to raise men or mo-
ney, for the carrying on of a traiterous design,
or to any other wicked intent or purpose in the
said impeachment mentioned, shall or may be
objected against bim upon his trial; and it is
m much impossible for him to bring witnesses
to prove all the meetings he hath had with
others in his life-time, as it is for him to know,
upon this general charge, what meeting or con-
sultation may upon his trial be objected against
bim as a traiterous meeting, or consultation ;
and where it is in the said impeachment charg-
ed upon the said lord, ' That he hath uttered
' treason, by malicious and advised speaking,
' writing, and otherwise declaring;' that the
said lord saith, that never any traiterous
thought ever entered into his heart ; and there-
fore he cannot possibly know or discover what
words or writing be ever spoke, uttered, writ,
or declared, which are now charged upon him
as treason ; there being no words or writing at
all specified in the impeachment, whereby the
said lord might know how to prepare his de-
fence against them, or that this most honour*
able House might judge whether the same words
or writing were in law treasonable or not,
" All which incertainties, and tbe imminent
and apparent danger of the said lord's being
thereupon surprised in his trial of a cause of
this consequence to the said lord, wherein his
life, and honour more dear to him than his life,
and all else that is dear to him in this world,
are immediately concerned, being seriously
weighed and considered by your lordships ; he
humbly prayeth, as by hi* counsel he is advised,
1247] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. mO.—Procctdingi agam* the [1941
That your lordships win not put him to answer
the said impeachment, as to the charges herein
above recited, till the same be reduced to some
competent certainty, that the same lord may
know what to answer unto, and may be thereby
enabled to make his just defence accordingly :
All which notwithstanding,!^ humbly submits to
your lordships grave judgments and considera-
tions; professing himself always ready and
willing to do and submit to whatsoever your
lordships in justice shall order and think fit.
And as lo all other the treasons, crimes, and
offences whatsoever, contained, mentioned, or
specified in the said impeachment ; the said
lord, protesting that they are incertainly and
insumcie ntly ail edged, and therefore saving to
himself the benefit of exception thereto, for
answer thereto, suith, That he is not nor ever
was, guiliy of the said treasons, crimes, and
offencrs, or of any or either of them, of which
he btntids charged by the said impeachment ;
and,, for hi* trial thereof, putteth himself upon
and humhly submittetb to, the judgment of
your lordships ; whose justice the said Torcl now
doth, and always shall, rely upon, and therein
acquiesce. " Belasysb."
Ordered, That this Answer be communicated
to the House of Commons, with this intimation,
That it be speedily returned.
April 10.
This House taking notice, with great dislike,
of tumultuous concourse and noise of people,
upon occasion of bringing the lords Prisoners
in the Tower to Westminster :
It is this day ordered, by the Lords spiritual
and temporal in parliament assembled, That thei
Lord Mayor of the city of London, and the
justices of peace and head bailiff for the city
of Westminster, and the justices of peace for the
county of Surrey, be, and are hereby, required
respectively, within their several jurisdictions
ana limits, to take care and order, in such man-
ner as to them shall seem meet, that there
be no such disorderly assembling of people, in
the said cities of London or Westminster,
borough of South w ark, or at, or near Lambeth,
•r in any part of any of the said places, at any
time, and in particular at such times as the
lords who are prisoners in the Tower shall be
brought either by land or by water to West-
minster, from henceforth, during the time of
their respective trials.
This day being appointed for the four Lords
prisoners in the Tower to put in their Answers
to the Impeachment of the House of Commons
against them :
The House ordered, that every lord singly
should he brought to the bar, and kneel, and
be demanded, ' Whether he had brought his
' Answer.'
Earl Po*is*s Plea and Answer.
The first. was the earl of Powis ; who deli-
vered in his Answer in writing; which was
made as followetb ;
" The several Plea of William earl of Powh
now prisoner in the Tower of London, to
part,and his several Answer to the retirtae,
of the Articles of Impeachment of High
Treason, and other high Crimes and Of-
fences, eihibited to the Lords Spiritual and
Temporal in Parliament assembled, against
the said earl and others therein named,
whereof the said earl stands impeached,
by the Knights Citizens and Burgesses, is
Parliament assembled, in the name of
themselves, and of all the Commons of
England.
"The said earl, in the first J>lace, and before
all other, protesting his iuoocency of and from
all the treasons, and other crimes and offences
whatsoever, in the said articles contained, sad
no way acknowledging, confessing,' granting, or
admitting, all or any the clauses, articles, or
matters, in the said Articles of Impeachment
contained or specified (so far as the same any
way concerns him) to be true, as in and by
the same Articles of Impeachment is supposed;
and humbly praying a favourable constructkn
by this most honourable House of what the
said earl shall humbly offer by way of plea to
such part of the impeachment as is hereunder
mentioned, and that the same may not be takes
or construed as any subterfuge or evasion of
the justice of this most honourable Hoose, to
which the said earl doth with all humility sob*
mit himself; desiring above all things the trial
of his cause by this most honourable Hone,
so that he may be provided to make biajast
defence for the clearing of his innocency from
the great and heinous crimes charged upon bin
by the said Impeachment ; This being prajed,
as also liberty to correct, amend, or esplsis,
anything in this his plea and answer contained)
which may any way give the most bonoonWe
House aoy occasion of offence ; and he bopets,
being granted ; the said earl, as to that part of
the impeachment that containeth the matter
following, namely, ' That, for many years so*
last past, there hath been contrived and car-
ried on, by papists, a traiteroas and execra-
ble Conspiracy and Plot, within this kingdom
of England and other places, to alter, change,
and subvert, the ancient government and laws
of this kingdom and nation, and to sappre*
the true religion therein established, sad to
extirpate and destroy the professors thereof;
and that the said Plot and Conspiracy was
contrived and carried on in divers places,
and by several ways and means, and bt •
great number of persons of several attajju*
and degrees who acted therein, and intended
thereby to execute and accomplish then
aforesaid wicked and trait erous design* •*■
purposes ; that the said earl of Powis, sad tj*
other lords therein named, together w'0*1 (j*
several other persons therein likewise »••*■
or mentioned, as false traitors to bis majesty
and this kingdom, within the time aforessiij
have traiterously consulted, contrived, «»
acted, to and for the accomplishing the n*
3
12W\
STATE TRIALS, 92 Chahle* II. 1<&Q.—Fh'c PopUk lords. [135Q
wicked, pernicious and trakerous designs;
and for that end did most wickedly and trai-
peroasly agree, conspire, and resolve, to im-
prison, depose* and. murder, his sacred ma-p
jetty, and to deprive him of his royal estate,
crown, aud dignity ; and, by mabeious and
advised speaking, writing, and otherwise de-
claring such their purposes and intentions;
and also to subject this kingdom and nation
to the pope, and to his tyrannical government ;
and to seize and share amongst themselves die
estates and inheritances of his majesty's Pro-
testant subjects ; and to erect and restore
abbies, monasteries, and other convents and
societies, which have been long since by the
laws of this kingdom suppressed, for their su-
perstition and idolatry, and to deliver up and
restore to them the lands and possessions now
vested in bis majesty and his subjects by the
laws and statutes of this realm; and also to
found and erect uew monasteries and con-
vents -, and to remove and deprive all Pro-
testant bishops, and other ecclesiastical per-
sons, from their offices, benefices, and pre-
ferments ; and by this means to destroy bis
majesty's person, to extirpate the Protestant
religion, overthrow the rights, liberties, and
properties, of all his majesty's good subjects,
subvert the lawful government of this king-
dom, and subject the same to the tyranny
of the see of Home ; and that the said con-
spirators, and .their complices and confede-
rates, traiterously had aod held several meet-
ings, assemblies, and consultations, wherein
it was contrived and designed amongst them,
what means should be used, and what' persons
and instruments should be employed, to mur-
der bis majesty; and did then and there
resolve to effect it, by poisoning, shooting,
stabbing, or some such like ways and means ;'
and also as to that part of the impeachment
which chargeth, ' That the said earl of Powia,
4 and the other persons in tlte said impeach-
* ment named the better to compass their trai*
4 terons designs, have consulted to raise men,
* money, horses, arms, and ammunition ;* the
said earl of Powis, saving to himself (aod which
he humbly prayetb may be reserved to him)
the liberty of answering over, and denying all
and singular the said crimes and offences so
charged upon him, saith, and humbly offereth
to this roost honourable House, that the charge
of those crimes and offences, so imposed upon
him by the said impeachment, is so general and
incectain, that he cannot by any possibility
give any direct answer thereto, nor make bis
just and lawful defence upon any trial of
the same ; for that the said charge hath no
manner of certainty in point of time, it being
laid only} * for many years now last past a trai-
< terons and execrable Plot and Conspiracy
* hath been (contrived and carried on ;' which
may be. for five, ten, twenty, or thirty, or more
wean past; whereby, though the said earl
knoweth himself to .be altogether innocent
of any such horrid and detestable crimes, as
by the said impeachment are objected against
TOL. VII.
"biro, yet it is no way possible for him, upon
any trial thereof, to be prepared with his just
and lawful defence, by witnesses, to prove
himself absent, and in another place, at
the time of such meeting or consultation to •>
or for any the wicked designs and purposes
in the said impeachment mentioned, as upon
his trial may be suddenly objected against
him, when he cannot, by any care or foresight
whatsoever, have such witnesses ready as could
disprove the same, if be were certainly charged
for any traitorous act or crime, at any time
certainly alledged in the said impeachment;
nor is the same charge in the said impeachment
more certain as to the place of any such trai-
torous meeting or consultation laid down in the
said impeachment, it being only alledged to Jt>e
( at divers places within the realm of England,
' and elsewhere;' which, for the causes afore-
said, • is likewise so utterly uncertain, that it
deprives the said earl of his just defence upon
his trial: The uncertainty likewise of the number
of meetings or consultations, to the wicked
purposes in the impeachment mentioned ; and
the not shewing bow many times the said earl
me*t and consulted, and with whom in parti-
cular, doth likewise deprive him of all possibi-
lity of making his defence, or producing his
witnesses; for that the said earl, being wholly
innocent, cannot suppose or imagine what
meeting or consultation, either to raise men or
money, for the carrying on of a traitorous
design, or to any other wicked intent or purpose
in the said impeachment mentioned, shall or
may be objected against him upon his trial;
and it is as mucli impossible for him to bring
witnesses to prove all the meetings he hath had
with others in his lifetime, as it is for him to
know, upon this general charge, what meeting
or consultation may upon his trial be objected
against him as a traitorous meeting or consulta-
tion : And where it is in the said impeachment
charged upon the said earl, * That he hath
1 uttered treason, by malicious and advised
* speaking, writing, and otherwise declaring;9
the said earl saith, That never any traitorous
thought ever entered into his heart ; and there-
fore he cannot possibly know of discover what
words or writing he ever spoke, uttered, wrote,
or declared, which are now charged upon him
as treason, there being no words or writing at
all specified in the impeachment, whereby the
said earl might know how to prepare his defence
against them, or that this most honourable
House might judge whether the same words or ,
writing were in law treasonable or not.
" Ail which uncertainties, and the imminent
and apparent danger, of the said earl's being
thereupon surprised in his trial of a cause of
this consequence to the said earl, wherein bis
life (and honour, more dear to him than his
life), and all else that is dear to him in this
world, are immediately concerned, being se-
riously weighed and considered by your lord-
ships; he humbly prayeth, as by his counsel he
is advised; That your lordships will not put
4 L /
1251] STATE TRIALS, 3* Charles II. 1680 Proceedmgi again* ike [128
htm to answer tbe said impeachment, as to the
charges herein above recited, tilt the same be
reduced to some competent certainty, that tbe
earl may know what to answer unto, and may
be thereby enabled to make bis just defence
accordingly: All which notwithstanding, he
humbly submitteth to your lordships grave
judgments and considerations; professing him-
self always ready and willing to do and submit
to whatsoever your lordships in justice shall
order or think, fit. And as to all other the
treasons, crimes, and offences whatsoever, con-
tained, mentioned, or specified in the said im-
peachment; the said earl, protesting that they
are uncertainly and insufficiently alledged, and
therefore saving to himself the benefit of excep-
tion thereunto, for answer thereto saitb, That
lie is not, nor ever was, guilty of tbe said trea-
sons, crimes, and effences, or of any or either
of them, of which he stands charged by tbe
said impeachment ; and, for his trial thereof,
putteth himself upon, arid humbly submitteth
to, the judgment of your lordships; whose
justice the said earl now doth, and always
shall, rely upon, and therein acquiesce.
Powis."
Viscount Stafford^ s*L£4 *nd Answer*
The lord viscount Stafford was brought in
like manner, and delivered in his Answer;
which was read as followeth :
" The several Plea of William viscount of
Stafford, now prisoner in the Tower of
London, to part, and his several Answer
to the Residue, of the Articles of Im-
peachment of High-Treason, and other
high Crimes and Offences, exhibited to
the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Par-
liament assembled, against the said vis-
count and others therein named, whereof
the said viscount stands impeached, by tbe
Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses in Par-
liament assembled, in the name of them<-
selves and of ail the Commons of Eng-
land.
* The said viscount, in the first place, and
before all others, protesting his innocency of
and from all the treasons, and other crimes and
offences whatsoever, in the said Articles con-
tained, and no way acknowledging, confessing,
granting or admitting, all or any the clauses,
articles, or matters, in tbe said Articles of Im-
peachment contained or specified (so far as the
same may any way concern him) to be true,
as in and by tbe same Articles of Impeachment
is supposed ; and humbly praying a favourable
construction, by this most honourable House,
of what the said visoouot shall humbly offer,
by way of plea, to such part of the Impeach-
ment as is hereunder mentioned, and that the
same may not be taken or construed as any
subterfuge or evasion of the justice of this most
honourable House, to which the said viscount
dotk, witb all humility, wholly submit himself;
desiring above all things the trial of bis cause
by Uua most honourable House, so that he may
be provided to make bis jnst defence, for the
clearing of his innocency from the great and
heinous crimes charged upon him by the nil
Impeachment: This being prayed, as sbo li-
berty to correct, amend,, or explain, any thing
in this his Plea and Answer contained, which
may any way give this most honourable Howe
any occasion of offence; and, he bopeth, brag
granted ; the said viscount, as to that part a
the Impeachment that contained* tbe matter
following; namely, * That, for many years bow
' last past, there hath been contrived and csr-
* tied on, by papists, a traitorous and execrsbb
< conspiracy and plot, within this kingdom of
* England and other places, to alter, change,
' and subvert, the ancient government sod
* laws of this kingdom and nation, and to sop*
* press the true religion therein established, aid
' to extirpate and destroy the professors these-
' of; and that the said plot and conspiracy wsi
' contrived and carried on, in divers place*,
* and by several ways and means, and by a
' great number of persons of several qualiuo
' and degrees, who acted therein, and inteai
' ed thereby to execute and accomplish thee
' aforesaid wicked and traitorous design* sod
1 purposes; that the said viscount of Stafford,
' and the other lords therein named, together
* with tbe several other persons therein like-
'wise named or mentioned, as false traitors to
' his majesty and this kingdom, within the time
' aforesaid, have traitorously consulted, cos*.
' trived, and acted, to and for tbe accomptinV
* ing the said wicked, pernicious, and traitorov
' desigos; and, for that end, did most wickedly
« and traitorously agree, conspire, and resolre,©
' imprison, depose, and murder his sacred aojer
* ty, and to deprive him of bis royal estate,crowa,
' anddignit y,and by malicious and advised speak*
' ing, writing, and otherwise declaring such their
' purposes and intentions ; and also to tahkcl
' this kingdom and nation to tbe pope, sad*
' his tyrannical government ; and to sens ssd
* share amongst themselves the estates and tobe-
* ritance of his majesty's Protestant subsets;
1 and to erect and restore abbies, monasteries,
' and other convents and societies, which hart
' been long since, by the laws of this kingdoo*
' suppressed for their superstition and idolatry,
' and to deliver up and restore to toots the
' lands and possessions now vested in hn sn>
' jesty and bis subjects by tbe laws and ststatst
' of this realm ; and also to found and eretf
' new monasteries and convents ; and to n>
4 move and deprive all Protestant bishops, ssd
1 other ecclesiastical persons, from their of*
* flees, benefices, and preferments ; and hy
' this, means to destroy his majesty's person,
* extirpate tbe Protestant religion, overthrow
* the rights, liberties and properties, of til si
' majesty's good subjects, subvert tbe -*vn1>>£'
' vernment of this kingdom, and subject Of
' same co the tyranny of the see of Rome; «j*
' that the said conspirators, and their aCO**
' pi ices and confederates, traitorously had ano
' held several meetings, assemblies and coatfj;
' tations, wherein it was contrived and ota£QP
1
1953]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \6S0.— Five Popish Lords.
[1254
'.amongst them, what means should be used,
4 and what persons and instruments should be
4 employed, to murder his majesty ; and did
* then aud there resolve to effect it, by poison-
4 ing, shooting, stabbing, or some suoh like
* ways and means ;' and also as to that part of
the impeachment which cbargetb, * That the
4 said viscount of Stafford, and the other per-
'sons in the said impeachment named, the
4 better to compass their traitorous designs,
4 have consulted to raise men, money, horses,
' arms, and ammunition ;' the said viscount of
Stafford, saving to himself (and which he hum-
bly prayeth may be reserved to him) the liberty
of answering over and denying all and singular
the said crimes and offences so charged upon
turn, saith, and humbly offereth to this most
honourable House, That the charge of those
crimes and offences, so imposed upon him by
the said impeachment, is so general and uncer-
tain, that be cannot by any possibility give any
direct answer thereto, nor make his just and
lawful defence upon any trial of the same ; for
that the said charge hath no manner of cer-
tainty in point of time, it being laid only, ' For
* many years now last past a traitorous and
' execrable Plot and Conspiracy hath been
4 contrived and carried on ;* which may be for
£vef ten, twenty, or thirty, or more years past ;
whereby, though the ..said viscount knoweth
himself to be altogether innocent of any such
horrid and detestable crimes as by the said
Impeachment are objected against him, yet it
is no way possible for him, upon any trial
thereof, to be prepared with his just and lawful
defence, by witnesses, to prove himself absent,,
and in another place, at the time of such meet-
ing or consultation to or for any the wicked
designs and purposes in the said impeachment
mentioned, as upon his trial may be suddenly
.objected against him, wheri he cannot, by any
care or foresight whatsoever, have such wit-
nesses ready as could disprove the same, if he
were certainly oharged for any traitorous act
or crime at any time certainly alledged in the
said impeachment ; nor is the said charge in
the said impeachment more certain as to the
place of any such traitorous meeting or con-
sultation lata down in the said impeachment, it
being only alledged to be, ' at divers places
* within the realm of England, and elsewhere;'
which, for the causes aforesaid, is likewise so
utterly uncertain, that it deprives the said vis-
count of his just defence upon his trial : The
uncertainty likewise of the number of meetings
or consultations to the wicked purposes in the
impeacbrdent mentioned, and the not shewing
how many times the said viscount met and con-
sulted, and with whom in particular, dotb like-
wise (deprive him of all possibility of making his
defence, or producing his witnesses ; for that
the said viscount, being wholly innocent, can-
not suppose or imagine what meeting or con-
sultation, either to raise men or riiouey for the
carrying on of a traitorous desigo, or to any
other wicked intent or purpose in the said im-
peachment mentioned, shall or may be object-
ed against him opon bis trial; and it is at
much impossible for bim to bring witnesses to
prove all the meetings he hath had with others
in his life-time, as it is for him to know, upon
this general charge, what meeting or consulta-
tion may upon his (rial be objected against lorn
as a traitorous meeting or consultation : And
where it is in the said impeachment charged
upon the said viscount, * That he bath uttered
* treason, by malicious and advised speaking,
' writing, and otherwise declaring ;' the said'
viscount saith, That never any traitorous
thought ever entered into his heart ; and there*
fore he cannot possibly know or discover what
words or writing he ever spoke, uttered, wrote,
or declared, which are now charged upon bim
as treason ; there being no words or writing at
all specified in the impeachment, whereby the
said viscount might know bow to prepare his
defence against them, or that this most ho-
nourable House might judge whether the same
words or writing were in law treasonable or
not.
" All which uncertainties, and the imminent
and apparent danger of the said viscount's be- ,
ing thereupon surprised in his trial ef a cause
of this consequence to the said viscount, where-
in his life (and honour, more dear to bim than
his life), and all else that is dear to him in this
world, are immediately concerned, being seri-
ously weighed and considered by your lord-
ships ; he humbly prayeth, as by his counsel lie
is advised, That your lordships will not put him
to answer the said impeachment, as to the
charges herein above recited, till the same be
reduced to some competent certainty, that the
viscount may know what to answer unto, and
may be thereby enabled to make his just de-
fence accordingly : All which notwithstanding,
he humbly submitteth to your lordships grave
judgments and considerations ; professing him-
self always ready and willing to do and submit
to whatsoever your lordships in justice shall
order or think fit. And as to all otiier the
treasons, crimes and offences whatsoever, con-
tained, mentioned or specified fn the said im-
peachment ; the said viscount, protesting that
they are uncertainly and insufficiently alledged,
and therefore saving to himself the benefit of
exception thereunto, for answer thereunto
saith, That he is not, nor ever was, guilty of
the said treasons, crimes, and offences, or of
any or either of them, of which he stands
charged by the said impeachment; and, for his
trial thereof, putteth himself upon, and humbly
submitteth to, the judgment of your lordships ;
whose justice the said viscount now. doth, and
always shall, rely upon, and therein acquiesce.
" Stafford."
Lord Petre*s Answer.
The lord Petre was brought in the like man-
ner, and delivered in his Answer ; which was
read, as folio we th :
" The humble Answer of William Lord Petre,
now Prisoner in the Tower of London, to the
1255] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charces II. 16BQ*— Proceedings agamt the [IW
Articles of Impeachment of High Treason,
and other high Crimes and Offences, ex-
- hibited against him and others, by the
Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses in Parlia-
ment assembled, according to the direction
of an order of this House, of the 9th of this
instant April.
" All advantages of exception to the said Ar-
ticles of Impeachment to this defendant saved
and reserved :
" As to the first part of the said Articles, by
which it is set forth, ' That, for many years
* now last past, there hath been contrived and
' carried on, by papists, a traitorous and execra-
' ble conspiracy and plot, within this kingdom of
* England and other places, to alter, change, and
' subvert, the ancient government and laws of
' this kingdom and nation, and to suppress the
rt?ue religion therein established, and to extir-
'.pate and destroy the professors thereof; which
'said plot and Conspiracy was contrived and car-
* ried on, in divers places, and by several ways
f, and means, and by a great number of persons
* of several qualities and degrees, who acted
' tberein^and intended thereby to execute and
' accomplish their aforesaid wicked and traiter-
' ous designs and purposes;' this defendant
saith, That he doth not know that all or any
of the matters herein before recited are true, of
his own knowledge 'f nor any otherwise, but by
the proofs heard and taken before both Houses
of parliament, and by their votes thereupon,
and likewise by the several indictments, trials,
verdicts, and judgments, lately had and given
in divers courts of record relating thereunto. —
And this defendant further saith, That he is
not guilty of all or any the matters bv the said
Articles of Impeachment charged against bim;
and, for his trial thereupon, he humbly puttth
himself upon God and his peers.
Will. Petbe.*!
Lord Arundel of Wardour's Plea and
Answer.
The lord Arundel of Wardonr was brought
in the like manner, and delivered in his answer;
which was read, as followeth :
" The several Plea of Henry lord Arundel of
W ardour, now Prisoner in the Tower of Lon-
don, to part, and his several Answer to the
residue, of the Articles of Impeachment of
High Treason, and other high Crimes and
Offences, exhibited to the Lords Spiritual
• and Temporal in Parliament assembled,
against the said lord Arundel of W ardour,
and others therein named, whereof the said
lord stands impeached, by the Knights, Citi-
zens, and Burgesses, in Parliament assem-
bled, in the name of themselves and of all
the Commons of England.
" The said lord, in the first place, and be-
fore all others, protesting his innocency of and
from all the treasons, and pther crimes and of-
fences whatsoever, in' the said Articles contain-
ed; and no way acknowledging, confessing,
(ranting, or admitting, all or any the clauses,
articles, or matters, in the said Articles of Im-
peachment contained or specified (so ftr is the
same any way concerns him,) to be trot, as is
and by the same Articles of Impeachment is
supposed; and humbly praying a favourable
construction, by this most honourable Hosse,
of what the said lord shall humbly offer b? way
of Plea to such part of the Impeachment as if
hereunder mentioned, and that the same may
not be taken or construed as any sobterfoaeor
evasion of the justice of this honourable Boose,
to which the said lord doth, with all bunility,
wholly submit himself; desiring, above ah*
things, the trial of his cause by this men ho-
nourable House, so that he may be provided w
make his just defence, for the clearing of hata-
nocency from the great and heinous trisaei
charged upon him by the said Impeachments
This being prayed, as also liberty to correct,
amend, or explain any thing in this bis Plea sad
Answer contained, which may any way give tail
mdst honourable Home any occasion of offence;
and, he hopeth, being granted ; the said loid,ss
to that part of the Impeachment that as*
taineth the matter following, namely, * That,
* for many years now last past, there bath bees
* contrived and carried on, by papists, a toiler*
' ous and execrable conspiracy and plot, wiiaia
' this kingdom of England and other places, »
« alter, change, and subvert, the ancient govenv
* ment and laws of this kingdom and nation, asi
' to suppress the true religion therein establish^,
' and to extirpate and destroy the proton
< thereof; and that the said plot andcowprvj
' was contrived and carried on, in divers places,
' and by several ways and means, and by a past
* number of persons of several qualities amide-
' grees, who acted therein, and intended thereby
' to execute and accomplish their aforasd
' wicked and traitersos designs and purposes;
< that the said lord, and the other lords Uteres
* named, together with the several other person
' therein likewise named or mentioned, as fate
' traitors to his majesty and t^is kingdom, mthj
< the time aforesaid, have traitorously WW*}J5
' contrived, and acted, to and for the accompfch*
« ing the said wicked, pernicious, and traitertss
* designs ; and, for that end, did most wickedly
' and traiterously agree, conspire, and resoh*,tt
* imprison, depose, and murder his sacred a*
1 jesty, and to deprive hiro of his royal estate,
* crown, and dignity ; and, by malicious aodj a*
4 vised speaking, writing, and otherwisfi dedsrj
* ing such their purposes and intentions ; ■»«
* also to subject this kingdom and nation toll*
* pope, and to his tyrannical government, •«»
i seize and share amongst themselves the wt*1**
* and inheritances of his majesty's protestaotss^
' jects ; and to erect and restore abbies, aioo*
' teries. and other convents and societies, ww»
' have been long since, by the laws of ^^JJ
* doro, suppressed, for their superstition and i»>
' latry; and to deliver up and restore to "*«
' the lands and possessions now vested in his is*
* jesty and his subjects by the laws and statot*
* of this realm ; and also to found and erect oe»
* monasteries and convents j and to removes*
M*7] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II. i66fe— Five Popish Lords,
[!9S*
**
* deprive all protestant bishops, and other eccle-
* siastical persons, from their offices, benefices,
< and preferments ; and by this means to destroy
4 his majesty Y persori, extirpate the protestant
* religion, overthrow the rights, liberties, and .
* properties of all his majesty's good subjects,
< subvert the lawful government of this kingdom,
* and subject the same to the tyranny of the see
* of Rome ; and that the said conspirators, and
' their complices and confederates, traitorously
* had and held several meetings, assemblies, and '
* consultations, wherein it was contrived and de-
4 signed amongst them what means should be
4 used, and wbat persons and instruments should
4 be employed, to murder his majesty; and did
4 then and tjiere resolve to effect ii, by poisoning,
4 shooting, stabbing, or some such like ways and
4 means ;' and also to that part of the impeach-
ment which chargeth, ' That the said lord, and
* the other persons in the said impeachment
4 named, the better to compass their traitorous
4 designs, have consulted to raise men, money,
4 horses, arms, and ammunition ;' the said lord,
saving to himself (and which be humbly prayeth
may be reserved to him) the liberty of answer-
ing over and denying sail and singular the said
crimes and offences so charged upon him, saith,
and humbly offereth to this most honourable
House, That the charge of those crimes and of-
fences, so imposed upon him by the said im-
peachment, is so general and uncertain, that he
cannot by any possibility give any direct an-
swer thereto, nor make his just and lawful de-
fence upon any trial of the same, for that the
said charge hath no manner of certainty in
point of time; it being laid ' for many years
4 now last past, a traitorous and execrable plot
' and conspiracy hath been contrived and
' carried on ;' which may be for five, ten,
twenty, or thirty, or more years past, whereby,
though the said lord knoweth himself to be al-
together innocent of any such horrid and de-
testable crimes as by the said impeachment are
objected against him, yet it is no way possible
for him, upon any trial thereof, to be prepared
with his just and lawful defence, by witnesses,
to prove himself absent, and in another place,
at the time of such meeting or consultation to or
for any the wicked designs and purposes in the
said Impeachment mentioned, as upon his trial
may be suddenly objected against him, when
)ie cannot, by any care or foresight whatsoever,
nave such witnesses ready as could disprove the
same, if he were certainly charged for any trai-
torous act or crime, at any time certainly al-
ledged in the said impeachment; nor is the
aanie charge in the said impeachment more
certain, as to the place of any such traiterous
meeting or consultation laid down m the said
impeachment, it being only alledged, to be * at
4 ihvers places, within the realm of England
* and elsewhere ;' which, for the causes afore-
-said, is likewise so utterly uncertain, that it de-
prives the said lord of his just defence upon his
'trial : The uncertainty likewise of the number of
inoeetings or consultations to the wicked pur-
*po4es; in the impeachment mentioned, and the
not shewing how many times the said lord met
and consulted, and with whom in particular,
doth likewise deprive him of all possibility of
making his defence, or producing his witnesses;
for that the said lord, being wholly innocent,
cannot suppose or imagine what meeting or
consultation, either to raise men or money, for
the carrying on of a traitorous design, or to any
other wicked intent or purpose in the said im-
peachment mentioned, shall or may be objected
against him upon his trial ; and it is as much
impossible for him to bring witnesses to prove
all the meetings he hath had with others in his
life-time, as it is for him to know, upon this ge-
neral charge, what meeting or consultation may,
upon his trial, he objected against him as a
traitorous meeting or consultation: And where
it is in the said impeachment charged upon the
said lord, ' that he bath utterea treason, by
* malicious and advised speaking, writing, and
' otherwise declaring;' the said lord saith, That
never any traitorous - thought ever entered intd
his heart; and therefore he cannot possibly
know or discover what words or writing he ever
spoke, uttered, wrote, or declared, which are
now charged upon him as treason ; there being
no words or writing at all specified in the im-
peachment, whereby the said lord might know
how to prepare bis defence against them, or that
this most honourable House might judge wbe*
tber the same words or writing were in law
treasonable or not.
" All which uncertainties, and the imminent
and appanent danger of (he said lord's being
thereupon surprised in his trial of a cause of
this consequence to the said lord, wherein *
his life (and honour, more dear to him than
his life,) aod all else that is dear to him in this
world, are immediately concerned, being se-
riously weighed and considered by your lord-
ships ; he humbly prayeth, as by his counsel he
is advised, That your lordships will not put
him to answer the said impeachment, as to the
charges herein above recited, till the same he
reduced to some competent certainty, that the
said lord may know what to answer unto, and
may be thereby enabled to make his just de*
fence accordingly : All which notwithstanding,
he humbly submitteth to your lordships grave
judgments and considerations; professing him*
self always ready and willing to do and submit
to whatsoever your lordships in justice shall
order or think fit. And as to all other the
treasons, crimes, and offences whatsoever, con*
tamed, mentioned, or specified in the said im-
peachment ; the said lord protesting that they
are uncertainly and insufficiently alledged, ana
therefore saving to himself the benefit of excep-
tion thereunto, for answer thereto saitb, That he
is not, nor ever was, guilty of the said treasons,
crimes, and offences, or of any or either of
them, of which he stands charged by the said
impeachment ; and, for his trial thereof, pntteth
himself upon, and humbly submitteth to, the
judgment of your lordships; whose justice the
said lord now doth, and always shall, rely upon,
and therein acquiesce. Hen. Arum del.*'
#r
» >.
1259] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL IQSO^-Proaxdmg* agamu the [1300
April 24.
A Message was brought from the Commons,
by Mr. Booth and others : to desire a Confer-
ence, concerning the Pleas and Answer of the
five Lords in the Tower, impeached by the
House of Commons.
The Answer returned was : that the Lords
have considered their Message, and will give
them a Conference, as is desired ; which the
Lords appoint to be presently, in the Painted
Chamber. The lord President, the lord Privy
Seal, earl of Oxon, earl of Derby, earl of Hun-
tingdon, earl of Bridge water, earl of Northamp-
ton earl of Clarendon, viscount Newport, bishop
of London, bishop of Durham, and the lord
Wharton, are appointed reporters of this Con-
ference.
The House was adjourned during pleasure,
and the Lords went to the Conference ; which
being ended, the House was resumed.
And the Lord President reported the effect
of the Conference ; viz.
" That sir Francis Winnington managed the
Conference ; which, he told us, was desired
concerning the Five Pleas, or Answers, or
rather writings, of the Lords in the Tower.
" In the first place, he offers that my lord
Bellasis cannot put' in his Answer but per-
sonally at the bar ; otherwise they account it
as a nullity.
** That the several writings (for so he can
only call them) of the Four Lords arc argumen-
tative and eVusive ; to which the Commons
neither can nor ought to reply.
" That the Ansuer of luy lord Petre is a
lega) Answer.
" That the lord Bellasis must put in his An-
swer, before the other lords can be proceeded
with.
" Therefore the Commons demand of the
Lords, That the Three Lords may be required
to put in more perfect Answers ; and that the
lord Bellasis may be "required forthwith to put
in his Answer.
" As to what the impeached Lords complain
of, the uncertainty of the time in their charge ;
the House of Commons have considered all
precedents ancient and modern ; and fiud them
all to run in general terms., as this doth. But,
because they would speed the matter, and
avoid delays, the House of Commons do de-
clare, That, in the trial of these Five Lords,
they will give no evidence particularly beyond
the space of seven years last past."
After some debate ; these lords following
were appointed, to consider of the Objections
made by the House of Commons thi« day at the
Conference, concerning the Pleas and Answers
of the Five Lords now prisoners in the Tower,
to the Impeachments where* ith they are
charged by the House of Commons, and to re-
port to the House what they find concerning
matters of this nature: L. President, L. Privy
Sea). Marq. of Win ton. Earls Derby, Hun-
tingdon, Salisbury, Bridgewater, Chesterfield,
Clarendon, Essex, Craven, Burlington; vis-
counts Fauconberg, Halifax, Newport; bishops
of London, Durham, Rochester, Ely, Bath sad
Wells, Exon. Lords Berkeley, Wharton, Pant,
Grey de Wark, Roberts, * Howard de Esc
Byron, Colepeper, Lucas, Gerrard B. Delamer,
Frescbevile, Arundel, T.
Ordered, Thajt the lord Bellasis is required
to put in his Answer to-morrow morning, at
this bar, personally.
April 25.
The lord Bellasis being brought to the bar,
and kneeling, he was bid to stand up : was
told, " That whereas be hath put in a Plea and
Answer to the Impeachment of the House of
Commons against him ; the House of Commons
have taken exceptions to his Plea and Answer,
as argumentative and evasive, and to whieb tbs
Commons cannot reply. Tbe lords do not give
any opinion one way or other in tbe case: but,
af he think fit to mend his plea, he may ; if he
insist on it, he may. But the House expects
such an Answer as he will abide by, and
stand to."
After this, he withdrew. And being called
in again, he was told, " He could have bat one
Plea depending in court : and if he will stand
by the plea he hath put in, he may ; otherwise
be may put in a new plea, and withdraw tbe
former."
Upon this, John lord Bellasis put in ano-
ther Answer; and his former Ariswcr was re-
delivered him.
Whereas John lord Bellasis, prisoner io tbe
Tower, for treason, and other high crimes, mis*
demeanors and offences, of which be stands
impeached by the House of Commom, was tbis
day brought to tbe bar, to pot in his Answer
to the said Impeachment ; and there desired
that Mr. Holt, counsellor atlaw, may be added
to the counsel formerly assigned to him.
Ordered, That Mr. Holt be, and is hereby,
assigned to be of counsel for the said lord Bella-
sis, in like manner, and for the like purpose*,
as the other counsel formerly desired on bit
lordship's behalf were assigned.
The said Answer was read, as follows :
Lord Bkllasis's Answer.
" The humble Answer of John lord Bellaus,
now Prisoner in tbe Tower of London, »
the Articles of Impeachment of high trea-
son, and other high Crimes and Offencei,
exhibited against him the said lord Bella-
sis and others, to the Lords Spiritual and
Temporal in Parliament assembled, by At
knights, citizens, and burgesses in Parlia-
ment assembled in the name of themselves
and of all the Commons of Eogland.
"This defendant saving and ream"*.*
himself all advantages and benefit of M(*P"?
to the generality, uncertainty and other insoo-
ciencics of the said Articles ; of which he num-
bly prays that notice may be taken, and a m
regard may be had by your lordships:— «*
saith, That be is not guilty of all or any ot tW
matters by the said Articles of Irapeachntfw
charged against him, in manner and ton *
7
1261] STATE TRIALS, S2 Chailbs TL 1 680,— five Pcpiih Lords. £126*
they *re charged against him ; and for his trial,
fee humbly potteth himself upon his peers.
*' Bellasts."
A Message was sent to the House of Com-
mousy by sir Timothy Baldwin and sir John
Hoskyns : To communicate to them the Plea
and Answer of Thomas earl of Danby,and the
Answer of John lord Bellasis delivered in this
day at the bar in person ; with this desire,
*That these original Answers may be re-
turned with convenient speed."
Ordered, That the lieutenant of the Tower
of London be, and is hereby required to bring
William earl of Powis, William viscount Staf-
ford, and Henry lord Arundel of Wardour,
now prisoners there, to the bar of this House,
to-morrow, at ten o'clock in the foreuoon.
April 26.
The earl of Powis, viscount Stafford, and
lord Arundel of Wardour, being brought to
this bar, and kneeling, and then bid stand up,
were told, " That the House of Commons have
taken Exceptions to their Pleas and Answers,
as argumentative and evasive, and to which
the Commons cannot reply. The Lords do
not give any opinion, one way or other, in the
case : but, if they think fit to mend their Pleas,
they may ; if they insist on them, they may :
but the House expects such Answers as they
will abide by, and stand to." After this, they
withdraw.
They are called in again ; and told, « They
can have but one Plea depending in court :
and if they will stand by the Plea they have
put in, they may ; otherwise they may put in
sew Pleas, and withdraw the former.' After
this, the earl of Powis, viscount Stafford, and
the lord Arundel of Wardour, put in other
Answers ; and the former Answers were re-
delivered them.
m
Then the several Answers were read, as
follows :
Earl Powis's Answer.
-* The humble Answer of William earl of
Powis, now Prisoner in the Tower of Lon-
don, to the Articles of Impeachment of
High Treason, and other high Crimes and
Offences, exhibited against him the said
Earl and ethers, to the Lords Spiritual and
Temporal in Parliament assembled, by the
Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses in Par-
liament assembled, in the name of them-
selves and of all the Commons of Eng-
land.
1 as they are charged against him ; and, for his
trial, he humbly putteth himself upon his peers.
" Powis."
Viscount Stafford's Answer.
** The humble Answer of William viscount bt
Stafford, now Prisoner in his Majesty's
Tower of London, to the Impeachment of
High Treason, and other high Crimes and
Misdemeanors, exhibited against him and
others, to the Right Honourable the Lords
Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament, by
the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses in
Parliament assembled, in the name of
•themselves and of the Commons of Eng-
land.
" The said Viscount saving to himself all ad-
vantage and benefit of exceptions to the gene-
rality, incertainty, and insufficiency of the said
Impeachment ; most humbly beseeching their
lordships thereof to take due notice, and there-
unto at all times to have a just regard : — Ho
answereth and saith, That he is not guilty of
all or any of the offences charged against him
by the said Impeachment ; and, for his trial,
humbly and willingly putteth himself upon bis
peers ; no ways doubting but, by the grace of
God, and their lordships impartial justice, ha
shall make his innocence appear. All which
he most humbly submitteth imto their lordnhipt
further consideration. " Stafford."
Lord Arundel of Wardour's Answer.
" The humble Answer of Henry lord A run-
dell of Wardour, now Prisoner in the
Tower of London, to the Articles of Im- ,
peachment of High Treason, and other
nigh Crimes and Offences, exhibited against
him the said lord Arundel and others, to
the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Par-
liament assemUed, by the Knights, Ctti
sens, and Burgesses in Parliament assem-
bled, in the name of themselves and of all
the Commons of England.
" This defendant saving and reserving to
himself all advantage and benefit of exception
to the generality, uncertainty, and other insuffi-
ciencies of the said Articles ; of which he hum-
bly prays that notice may be taken, and a just
regard may be had by your lordships : — Ho
saith, That he is not guilty of all or any the
matters by the said Articles of Impeachment
charged against him in manner and form as
they are charged against him ; and, for his
trial, he humbly putteth himself upon his Peers,
" Hen. Arundel."
♦'This defendant saving and reserving to
fciutself all advantage and benefit of exception
to the generality, uncertainty, and other in-
sufficiencies, of the said Articles ; of which he
humbly prays that notice may be taken, and a
just regard may be had by your lordships : —
He saith, That he is not guilty of all or any of
the matters by the said Articles of Impeach*
snoot charged against him, in manner and form
A Message was sent to the House of Com-
mons, by sir Miles Coke and sir John Hos-
kins : To communicate to them the several
Answers of the earl of Powis, viscount Stafford,
and the lord Arundel, given in this day, at this
bar, by the lords in person.
April 29.
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons, by sir Johu Trevor and other : To
STATE TRIAU9, 53 Charles II. WSO.— Proceed*& agamt the [126*
1268}
return tbe original pleat of the earl of Powis,
Tuoount Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundel of
Wardour, and lord Bellasis.
Upon reading tbe petition of William
earl of Powis, William viscount of Stafford,
William lord Petre, Henry lord Arundel of
Wardour, and John lord Bellasis; bhewing
" That in order to their defence upon their
trials, they have sent for, from beyond the seas,
Christopher Towneley, Henry Hall, and Daniel
Gifford, being very material witnesses ; which
witnesses are imprisoned upon suspicion of be-
ing priests, as in the petition is a I [edged ; and
praying, that they may be discharged from .their
imprisonment:"
Ordered, That tbe warrants by which the
said Ch-fttopber Townley, Henry Hall, and Da-
niel Gifford, were committed to prison, shall
be brought before this House to-morrow.
Ordered, That neither the earl of Powis,
viscount Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundel of
Wardour, and lord Bellasis, being prisoners in
tbe Tower, nor any of them, shall send for any
person or persons from beyond tbe seas, to be
used as witnesses upon their respective trials, un-
less they shall first give in the name or names of
such person or persons, to be allowed of by this
House.
This day the several Indictments, whereby
William earl of Rowis, William viscount Staf-
ford, William lord Petre, Henry lord Arundell
of Wardour, and John lord Bellasis, are found
guilty of High-Treason, by the grand Jury, be-
fore the justices for the county of Midd. sitting
at Westm. on tbe 3rd of December, 1678, were
brought into this House, by virtue of his ma-
jesty's writs of Certiorari tor that purpose is-
sued.
May 1.
Ordered, That on Monday next this House
will take into consideration, " whether the
Lords spiritual are to vote in judicature, in
cases of blood, or upon bills of attainder f" y
May 6.
The House entered into consideration,
« Whether tbe Lords spiritual are to vote in ju-
dicature in cases of blood, or upon bill* of at*
tainder ?" A Her some debate ; It is ordered,
That this debate be resumed to-morrow morn-
ing.
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons, by Mr. Treby and others : That
tbe knights, citizens, and burgesses, in par-
liament assembled, having exhibited to this
bouse Articles of Impeachment, of High-Trea-
son and other high crimes and offences, ngajnst
William earl of Powis, William viscount Staf-
ford, William lord Petre, Henry lord Arundel
of Wardour, and John lord Bellasis ; to which
the said lords have severally pleaded not guilty :
He said, " He was commanded, by the *aid
knights, citizens and burgesses, to acquaint
their lordships, that they will and are ready to
make good the said Articles and Charge against
those lords."
After debute of this Message : Tub qantita
was proposed, * Whether the Eve Lords ia
the Tower shall be brought to their Trials
(upon the Impeachment against them) this day
sevenntght?" This previous question was pot,
" Whether this Question shall be now pot r It'
was resorted in toe affirmative.
Then the main question was put; to.
" Whether the Five Lords in the Tower, shall
be brooght to their trials (upon the impeach*
men t against them) this day seveonighc ?" It
was resolved in the affirmative.
Ordered, That Westminster Hall is appoint-
ed to be the place for hearing the earl of Dtiu
by to make good bis Plea of his pardon before
thb House, with a Lord Higb Steward, awl aba
for Trial of tbe Five Lords impeached ia kkt
manner.
Ordered, That the lords with white itava
do attend his majesty, to let hicu know, frost
this IJouse, " That they have appointed to
hear the earl of Danby to make good Jut Plel
of his pardon to the Articles of Imptacamtss
against him on Saturday next, in Westminster
Hall ; and that the earl of Powis, viscount
Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundel of Wantar,
and the lord Bellasis, are to be broutbt is
their Trials in Westminster Hall, upon tht is*
peachments against them, on Tuesday next; <
and humbly to desire bis majesty, that be vA
be pleased to appoint a high steward, for tat
purposes aforesaid, to continue during the sue*
trials."
A Message was sent to the House of Cov-
inous by judge Atkins and judge Dolbea: Ts
acquaint tbem with the two orders made cos*
cerning the earl of Danby and the Five Lorn
in tbe Tower ; and to let them know, that the
lords have appointed an Address to be dm*
seated to his majesty, for naming a loud bsfb
steward, as well in the case of .the earl of Da*
by, as for the Trials of the other Five Lorth
prisoners in tbe Tower ; and that tbe same shaU
be in Westminster Hall.
The lord visconnt Newport reported, w lost
he waited on his majesty, with the desire of the
llouse, that he woujd appoint a Lord H%h
Steward, for the trials of the earl of Dauby, sw
the Five Lords in the Tower; and his majesty re-
turns this answer, that he will appoint a tord
High Steward by Saturday next.*'
The House resumed the debate, wbicb wss
yesterday, " Whether the Lords spiritual are to
vote in judicature in cases of blood, or upon
bills of attainder." And, niter a long debate,
the question was proposed, " Whether th&
House shall be now adjourned till to mnrrp*
morning r** Then, this previous questiun **f
put, " Whether this question shall be now put?*
It was resolved in the nmrnutive. The man
question being put, " Whether this House sh*jj
be now adjourned till to morrow morninf r
It was resolved in tbe affirmative.
OrdueeV That
May 8.
sir Bryan Brought**, *
1X5] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chjulli
Thomas Whwgrave, Mr. Thomas Kennersley,
Mr. Ralph Lawson, Mr. Thomas Abneil,
Mr. William Pawlet, Nathaniel Caulk in,
Elizabeth Eld, Ann Eld, Thomas Perry, James
Jones, Mr. Ralph Phillips parson of Thcall, Mr.
Dambeeeh, Mr. Thomas Astely, Mr. Goodard
servant to the bishop of Litchfield and Co-
ventry, Thomas Sayer, Mr. Richard Gerrerd of
Hillerson, John Proctor, Thomas Hoi (owes,
John Pallet of Ridgley, Waiter Collins of
Stafford, Thomas Parker, Thomas Winter, John
Menter, Anthony Landracy, William Parker,
Anthony Cooke, James Bay lie, Joan Joseph,
Peter Carpenter, William Bradford, Elizabeth
Stlleyer, Edward Wood, John Minney, Thomat
Andrewes, be, and are hereby, required to ap-
pear before the house of peers, in Westminster
Hall, to give evidence of what they know, or
can say on the behalf of William ear/ of Powis,
William viscount Stafford, William lord Petre,
Henry lord Arundel of Wardour, and John lord
BeUasif) or any of them, in their making their
defences upon their respective Trials, on Tues-
day next, being the thirteenth day of this instant
May, and such times after as the said Trials
thaJl contiaue.
May 8, p, m.
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons, by sir Christopher Musgrave : to
desire a Conference, concerning the matter of
their lordships last Message sent to them, con-
cerning the Trials of the earl of Danby and the
five Lords in the Tower. The question was
pur, u Whether to give a present Conference
with the House of Commons, in the Painted
Chamber?" it was resolved in the affirmative.
The answer returned was, That this House
will give a Conference, as is desired ; and ap-
point the same to be presently, in the Painted
Chamber. These lords following were ap-
pointed to report this Conference : L. Presi-
dent, L. Privy Seal ; D. of Newcastle ; earls of
Huntingdon, Clarendon, and Essex ; viscounts
Pauconberg, and Halifax, bishop of Rochester ;
Lords Grey, Huward de Esc. and Colepeper.
The House was adjourned during pleasure, and
the? Lords went to the Conference ; which being
ended, the House was resumed.
Then the Lord President reported the effect
of the Conference ; which was, " That the Com-
mons suppose your lordships do intend, in all
the proceedings upon the impeachments now
depending before your lordships, to follow the
usual course and methods of parliament. And
the Commons cannot apprehend what should
induce your lordships to address to his majesty
for a Lord High Steward, in order to the
determining the validity of the pardon which
Imth been pleaded by the earl of Danby to the
Impeachment of the Commons, as also for the
Trial of the other Five Lords ; because the Com-
mons conceive the constitution of a High
Steward is not necessary ; hut that judgment
may be given in parliament, upon Impeach-
ment, without a High Steward.
•«• There beingseveral other matters contained
VOL, VII.
Popish
[1266
in your lordships messages, touching the trial of
the lords Impeachments, which, if not settled,
may occasion several interruptions and delays
in the proceedings ; the House of Commons do
therefore propose to your lordships, that a Com-
mittee of both Houses be nominated, to con-
sider of the most proper ways and methods of
proceedings Upon impeachments of the House of
Commons, according to the usage of parliament,
that thereby those inconveniences may be
avoided."
After a long debate, the question was put,
" Whether to agree with the desire of the House
of Commons at the Conference, to have a com-
mittee of both Houses, to consider of the
manner of the Trials of the Lords r" It was re-
solred in the negative.
" Distent ient tints; Finch, C. Arlington, Hun-
tingdon, Bedford, Clare, Essex, Clarendon,
Newport, Strafforde, Delamer, R. Eure,
Rockingham, Pagett, P. Wharton, J. Lovelace,
Shaftesbury, Pr. Derby, Salisbury, Halifax,
Grey.
• May 10.
A Message was brought from the House of
Commons, by Mr. Titus, &c, ThaOhe Com*
moos pray a Conference with their lordship*)
upon the subject matter of the last Confer-
ence. The answer returned was: That this
House agrees to a conference, as is desired ;
and appoints the same to be presently, in the
Painted Chamber. These lords following were
appointed to report this Conference : L. Presi-
dent, L. Privy Seal ; Earls of Bedford, Hun-
tingdon, Salisbury, Bridgewater, Clarendon,
and Essex; Bishop .of Bath cc Wells, lord
Berkely, viscounts Fauconberg and Halifax*
The House was adjourned during pleasure,
and the lords went to the Conference ; which
being ended, the House was resumed. .
Then the earl of Salisbury reported the effect
of the last Conference; viz. " That for anstver
to the last Conference, the managers of this*
Conference were commanded by the House of
Commons to say to your lordslrips, that your
lordships do not offer any answer or satisfac-
tion to the Commons,, in their necessary pro-
posal amicably offered by way of supposition,
that they might have been confirmed therein
by answer from your lordships, that your lord-
ships do intend, in all the proceedings upon
the impeachments now depending before your
lordships, to follow the usual course and me-
thods of parliament.
" And further, that your lordships have not
given the least answer or satisfaction to the
Commons, concerning your lordships addressing
to the king for a Lord High Steward, though
the Commons proposed their desire of satisfac-
tion in that matter in as cautious terms as couloT
be, on purpose to avoid all disputes about ju-
dicature. The Commons, to avoid all inter
ruptions and delays in the proceedings against
the lords impeached, and the inconveniencies
that may arise thereby, having proposed to yonf
lordships, that a committee of both House*
4M
1307] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I6S0.—
might be nominated, to consider of the most
proper ways and methods of proceedings upon
impeachments; your lordships, without anj
reason assigned (save only that you say, you
do not think it conformable to the rules and
order of the proceedings of this court) have re-
fused to agree with the House of Commons in
* appointing such a committee, though not here-
tofore denied to the Commons,^ when asked
upon the like occasion, and at this time desired
purposely to avoid disputes and delays. And
therefore the House of Commons have com-
manded us to acquuint your lordships, that,
things standing thus upon your answer, they
cannot proceed in the Trials of the Lords, be-
fore the methods of proceedings be adjusted be-
tween the two Houses."
After a long 'debate hereof: The question
was put, " Whether a committee of this House
'shall be appointed to meet with a committee of
the House of Commons to confer about the
methods and forms of proceedings in order to
the Trials of the lords ?"
It was resolved in the negative.
The lord president reported, " That the
committee of both Hooses appointed to con-
sider of propositions and circumstances in re-
ference to the trials of the lords in the Tower,
have met this morning, in the inner court of
wards, and made an entrance into this busi-
ness :— The committee of the House of Com-
mons propose, that the Lords would consider of
a longer time for the trials of the lords in the
Tower.
" This proposition is agreed to be the last thing
to be considered.
" The Commons also propose and desire to
see the commission that is prepared for a lord
high steward at these trials ; and also the com-
missions in the earl of Pembroke's and lord
Morley's oases."
. " To this the Lords committees said, the high
steward is but speaker pro tempore, and gives
bis voice as well as the other lords: This
cbangeth not the nature of the court ; and the
Lords declared they have power enough to pro-
ceed to trial, though the king should not
name an high-steward.
" This seemed to be satisfaction to the Com-
mons ; provided it were entered in the Lords
Journals, which are records.
" The Commons also propose' and desire to
know, what resolution1 the Lords have taken
concerning the bishops being, or not being, at
the trials of these lords.— The Commons say,
' that, in the earl of Strafford's case, the Lords
acquainted the Commons, that the bishops in-
tended not to be at the trials. — The Commons
think it necessary to know, whether the Lords
intend any new forms in trials upon impeach-
ment—-They conceive, ail trials upon impeach-
ments in parliament have been by the temporal
lords only."
Ordered, That the trials of tlie earl of Powis,
viscount Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundel of
VVardour, and lord Beilasis now prisoners in
the Tower, which were appointed to, begin
ings against the {1968
to morrow morning in Westminster hall,
be, and are hereby, put off till further order;
and that timely notice shall be given to the
said lords of such further day as shall be ap*
pointed for that purpose.
Ordered, That tlie clerk of the crown do it-
tend the lord chancellor this afternoon, with
copies of the commission for the lord high stew-
ard, in order to the Trials of these lords.
It is declared and ordered, by the Lords spi-
ritual and temporal in parliament assembled,
That the office of a High Steward, upon trials
of Peers u^on impeaclunents, is not necessity
to the House of Peers ; but that the Lords osj
proceed in such trials if a high Steward be sot
appointed, according to their humble desire,
May IS.
The lord president reported, "That the coo*
tnittee of 6oth Houses have met this morning;
and dibcoursed in the first place in the matter
of a Lord High Steward, and have perused fcf
mer commissions for the office of High Steward;
and propose from the committee, that the order
being entered in the Journal of the House of
Lords ; vis. That an office of an High Stew-
ard, upon trials of Peers upon impeachments,
is not necessary to the House of Peers ; b*
that die Lords may proceed in such trials, if ss
High Steward be not appointed, according to
their bumble desire : There may be a commit
sion for an High Steward to bear date after lbs
said order, so as the words id the commission!
f >erused may be thus changed ; vis. instead of
" ac pro eo quod Otficiuin Senescalli Aoglin
' cujus Praesentia in hac parte requiritur, nt *>
' cepimus, jam vacat*] may be inserted [ ' as
' pro eo quod pfoceres et Magnates in pari*
* mento nostra assemblat. Nobis humiliter sap*
' plicaverunt, ut Senescallum Anglic pro m
' vice constituere dignaremur']."
His lordship further reported,. " That, in
the next place, tlie Commons proposed} that
they might be satisfied in what they proposed
yesterday concerning the bishops being pretest
at the trials of the lords impeached.— To wnkfi
the Lords making answer, That it belongs not
to the Commons to be concerned in the con-
stituting parts of the court upon such trials;
but that the judgment of this matter belosfs
entirely to the Lords ; and when thev hs«
.judged it, the Commons cannot alter it, sod
therefore should not debate it, — Upon which,
the Commons acknowledged, that judgment
after trial is in the Lords; but their lordships
are not to give judgment unless theConuncns
demand it. — And the Commons desire toknoe
whether the lords will proceed in these tnss
as their lordships did anciently; for, if»*
bishops should sit upon these trials, and the
Commons should not demand judgment, ss
being dissatisfied with their being there, it **?
be the Commons may proceed by bill.— To
which the Lords made answer, That, after «*
evidence is fully heard, they are bound to 0ft
judgment of condemnation or ac(ltt'tto^T^?
this being a mat tec of judicature, the Ixw* **
1269]
STATE T1UALS, 32Cnau.u II. l6S0.—Fwc Popish Lords.
[1170
dared, that the? would impose silence opoo
themselves, ami debate it no further. — The
Commons further desired to know, whether the
bishops shall be allowed to rote upon the va»
lidity of the pardon of the earl of Danby ; for
they account that no preliminary, but the very
essence of the trial."
Which report being ended ; and the first
part thereof, concerning the Lord High Stew-
ard, being agreed to; the House entered into
debate concerning the sqcond part thereof,
in relation to the lords the bishops. After a
Jong debate thereof; The question was propo-
posed, " Whether the lords spiritual have a
right to stay in court, in capital cases, till
such time as judgment of death comes to be
pronounced r
Then, this previous question being put,
" Whether this question snail be now put ?" It
was resolved in the affirmative.
Then the main question was put, (viz.)
" Whether the lords spiritual have a right to
stay in court, in capital cases, till such time as
judgment of death comes to be pronounced ?"
Which was resolved in the affirmative.
" Diitentientibus, Derby, Winchester, Essex,
Shaftsbury, Pr. Clare, Huntingdon, Herbert,
Stamford, Manchester, Delamer, Mulgnue,
Kent, P. Wharton, Howard, J. Lovelace,
Rockingham, Bedford, Salisbury, North and
Grey, Halifax, Grey."
May 16.
The Lord President reported, "Tjhat the
Lords' committees have met the committee of
the House of Commons this morning ; who
communicated to their lordships, That yester-
day they reported to their House the resolution
of the House of Peers, with the explanation of
it, which the Lords had acquainted them with-
concerning the Lords spiritual. — Upon consi-
deration whereof, their House gave them as an
instruction to insist, That the Lords spiritual
ought not to have any vote, in any of the pro-
ceedings upon the impeachments against the
Lx>rds in the Tower.— And the committee de-
clared further, That they know not how to
proceed in capital matters before a new court.
To which the Lords answering, That they had
no instructions, power, nor allowance, from the
House, to debate concerning this matter ; de-
sired that if they had any other proposals to
make, they would do it ; and that the Lords
were ready to debate them. — To tlus, the Com-
mons answered, That they think it most proper
that the propositions already made should be
determined before they make any new ones."
After consideration had thereof; the ques-
tion was put, " Whether Thursday next shall
be appointed, to begin the Trials of the Five
Lords who are prisoners in the Tower ?" And
it was resolved m the affirmative.
After which resolution passed, the Lords spi-
ritual asked the leave of the House, that they
might withdraw themselves from the Trials of
the said lords, with the liberty of entering their
■sua] Protestation.
Ordered, That this resolution of the Home,
and desire of the Lords spiritual, be communi-
cated to the committee of the House of Com-
mons, to-morrow morning.
May 17.
The Lord President reported, " That the
Lords committees have met the committee of
the House of Commons this morning, and gave
them an account of the resolution of the Lords
passed yesterday, concerning the trials of the
Five Lords in the Tower, and also of the desire
of the Lords spiritual, to withdraw themselves
from the trials of those lords, reserving the li-
berty of entering their usual protestation ; and
delivered to them a signed copy of what is en-
tered in the Journal of the House of Peers con-
cerning this matter ; which is all they had in
command.
" To which the Commons answered, That
the vote of the House of Commons, which they
acquainted the Lords with yesterday, concern-
ing the bishops, extends to the earl of Danby,
as well as the said Five Lords ; whereas the
Lords' vote relates oaly to the Five Lords :
And therefore they desired to know what an-
swer the Lords give as to the earl of Danby.-*
Tbey further objected, that they conceived that
their vote was to the right of the thing ; and
that the bishops have no right to beat any one
vote in any capital case ; and they conceived
the earl of Danby's case to be a capital case,
as well as the cases of the other Fire Lords;'
and that, if the bishops may have leave to
withdraw, it implies a right, which if they have
it is a new court, which the Commons cannot
admit of. — The Lords did then let them know,
there is no day yet appointed for the trial of the
earl of Danby; and that the Lords spiritual
will be absent at all the parts of the trials of
the Five Lords ; and that the protestation they
now desire to enter will be the same as in the
cnrl of Strafford's case. Then the Commons
said, .they could not proceed to treat of any
other proposal, till such time as this business
about the court be settled."
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and tem-
poial in parliament assembled, That the com-
mittee for privileges are hereby appointed fur-
ther to search for and consider precedents and
ways of proceeding on the trials and judicature
of Peers ; and to advise of directions and
methods fit to be observed therein, for the pre-
servation of order and regularity in the trials
of the lords now appointed ; and all circum-
stances usually occurring in such trials ; Hod to*
report to this House on Monday next ; and for
this end to sit this afternoon.
May 19.
The Lord President reported, " That the
Lords' committees have met this morning with
the committee of the House of Commons;
where the Commons acquainted the Lords,
that thev had reported to their House the
rote of this House, and the desire of the Lords
spiritual, which occasioned the House of Com-
1«71] STATE TUIAUi 32 Cham,e» IL l660.—Proa*lingi ogafeii die (ISS3
roons to give this further instruction to their 1 there* do forthwith transmit the said papees to
committee; viz. To insist on the former vote "' "* ~L~ " ~c **
gf their House, that the Lords spiritual ought
not to have any vote in the proceedings against
the lords in the Tower; and when that matter
shall be settled, and the method of proceedings
adjusted, their House shall be th$n read/ to
proceed upon the trial of the pardon ef the earl
of Dan by, agains.t whom the House of Com-
mons hath already demanded judgment; and
afterwards to the trials of the Five Lords in the
Tower. Upon which, the Lords told them,
they had no authority to debate this mutter.
*' The Commons then further said, That the
Lords' resolution, which was offered, was no
answer to their proposition, which compre-
hended the earl of Dan by as well as the Five
Lords ; and the Lords' answer relates only to
the Five Lords: besides, the Lords' answer was
doubtful; for it appears, that the bishops asked
leave to be absent, but it appears not that it
was granted ; and if they may ask leave, and it
be not granted, than consequently the bishops
niust sit in court at the trials. The Commons
conceive, that the bishaps absenting themselves
ty way of lea? e is a strong implication of a.
right asserted, which they cannot allow can
ever be maintained ; and think there is the
same reason for the bishops being absent from
the trial upon the pardon, as at the trial of the
other Five Lords ; and that the naming of a day
lor the trial of the Five Lords, before the trial
of the pardon of the earl of Dan by, against
whom the Commons have already demanded
judgment, is a putting that last, which they de-
sired should be first.
" To which the Lords told them, They were
not empowered to debate ; but would report
these matters to their House.
" The Commons hereupon replied, They are
ready to go on ; and that, for want of these
trials, all public business stands .still : but the
Lords seem to lay tjie stop at the Commons'
door, by naming a day, which they conceive
ought not to have been appointed before the
methods be considered ; for the Lords have not
answered the Commons in matter of right,
which is necessary first to be adjusted ; and
they desire your resolution as to that matter ;
fpr they conceive they have no right : And the
Lords may as well make the judges part of
their court, as the. bishops, iu this point.
" The Commons will give no disturbance to
the ancient judicature;, for they own that to be
sacred. And they conceive they have a right
co know before what court they shall appear;
and they hope the Lords will consider of their
having appointed a day before the methods be
considered, and will give them leave to wonder
at it/'
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
ip parliament assembled, That Edmund War-
cupp, eaa. one of the deputy lieutenants and
justice of peace for the county of Middlesex,
who, by Order of this House, hath searched the
house of viscount Stafford, called or known by
the name of Tartuall, and seized some papers
the secret coin aui tec of the House of
awns ; and for so doing, this shall be a suficsemt
warrant.
The Lord Pr ivy Seal reported, " Thai tin
committee of privileges have met, and ceasi-
dered of the methods and rules to be observed
at the trials of the Five Lords in the Tower;
which are offered to the consideration of tie
House."
Ordered, by the Lords spiritual and temporal
in parliament assembled, That no lord of this
House shall visit any of the lords now prisoners
in the Tower, without leave of this House first
had on that behalf.
May 20.
Ordered, That Tuesday nest, being the tttk
day of this instant May, be appointed for the
Trial of the Five Lords uow prisoners in the
Tower; viz. William earl of Powis, William
viscount Stafford, William lord Petre, Heonr
lord Arundel of Wardour, and John lord Bet-
lasis.
Ordered, That this House will take into
consideration the report made from the Lords'
committees for privileges, concerning the me-
thods of proceedings to be observed in order to
the trials of the lords now prisoners in the
Tower, to-morrow morning, the first business.
May Hi.
Upon reading the Report made from the
Lords' committees for privileges, concerning
the methods of proceedings to be observed at
the trials of the lords in the Tower : It
dered, That the Lords' committees for
of die Journal Book be, and are hereby/ ap-
pointed to make an abstract of so much these*
of as is necessary to be communicated to the
House of Commons ; the rest to be fur the use
of the Lord Chancellor ; and to report to this
House to morrow morning.
May 22.
The Lord Privy Seal reported, " That the
Committee for the Journal Book, winch was
appointed to make an abstract out of the Re-
port concerning the methods of proceedings so
be observed at the trials of the lords in the
Tower, of what is fit to be communicated t»
the House of Commons, and what is requisite
to be for the direction of the Lord CluuioeJIor,
have met, and considered thereof, as fbUewst
" The Preface of the Report to stand; vvu
" The Lords Committees for Privileges, to
whom it is referred to consider of precedents
and ways of proceeding in the trials and judi-
cature of the Peers, have perused the Journals
of this House; in which the proceedings i»
order to the trials of the earl of Strafford and
the earl of Pembroke are entered ; and, upon
consideration had thereof, have ordered to re-
port, that the method of proceedings agreed to
by the House of Peers on the 22nd of March)
1677, in order to the trial of the end of Pear-
1*73] STATE TRIALS, 32 Champs II. 10SO.— Five Popish Lord.
[1274
broke, be observed in order te the trial* of the
•arl of Powis, viscount Stafford, lord Petre,
lord Arundel of Wardour, and lord BeHasyse ;
save only that the attendance of the clerk of
crown in the King V bench is not to be re-
quired, nor any place to be prepared at the
oar for the king's counsel ; and that the addi-
tional rule for the going of the eldest sons of
peers between the House of Peers above stairs
avid Westminster-ball, roade the 9th of this
instant May, be observed ? Also,
" The Lord Chancellor is to observe rales
mjtnV directions, which are already upon the
Journals; of which he n to have an eitract, and
therefore not requisite to be entered again here.
44 That which is proper to be communicated
M ae follows :
44 That the earl of Powis, viscount Stafford,
lord Pet re, lord Arundel of Wardour, and lord
BeHasyse, and every of them, who are to be
brought to their trial in Westminster- hall, shall
have warrants for such witnesses as will not
oome without (affidavit being first made there-
of), excepting such as are members of the
House of Commons, and such persons as stand
charged with the same treason as the said lords
awe charged with ; and that such witnesses as
way of the said lords at their respective trials
aftmll produce for their defence shall not be ex-
amined upon oath in their case ; but may be ex*
saained upon oath if the members of the House
of Commons do desire it, on their behalf; and
if the said lords, or any of them, do re-examine
tfie said witnesses, it is to be upon the same oath.
u That the Lieutenant or the Tower is to
return the warrant of this House.
«* That the said Lords, being brought to the
fcar by the Lieutenant of the Tower, are to
kneel until the Lord High Steward command
thera to arise ; aud then he is to let them know,
* now assembled in parliament, and in the name
* of all the Commons of England ; and that this
4 day they are to receive their trials for their
4 lives.'
** That the whole Impeachment against them
is- tr> be read ; and then their Answers: which
being done, the Lord High Steward is to tell
the Commons, * That now they may go on
* with their evidence/
44 Then the Lord High Steward is to de-
clare, * That now the court is proceeding to
4 hear the evidence/ and desire the Peers to
give attention.
" If the said Lords shall demand counsel,
the Lord High Steward is to let them know,
* That, during the time that the members of
4 the Commons do manage their evidence in
* matter of fact, tbey (the said lords) are to use
* no counsel.*
41 If any of the Peers, the members of the
House of Commons that manage the evidence,
er the prisoners, do desire to have any aues-
tion asked; they must desire the Lord High
Steward to ask the question.
" If any doubt doth arise at the trial, no de-
bate is to be in the court, but the question
suspended to be debated in this House.
" The Peers are to sit upon the trial but
once a day, and not to sit past two o'clock.
" The members of the Commons to be set
first, before the Peers come.
14 None to be covered at the trial but the
Peers.
•4 That a private place be made, to pot of-
fenders safely in.
" That the place between the prisoners and
the woolsack be clear.
44 That such peers, at the trial of the said
lords, who at the instance of the Commons-
shall be admitted witnesses, are to be sworn at
the clerk's table, and the Lord High Steward
to administer the oath, and to deliver their
evidence in their own places.
44 Those witnesses that are commoners are
to be sworn at the bar by the clerk, and are to
deliver their evidence there.
44 The Oath which is to be given to the wit*
oesses is this :
44 The Evidence which you shall give, in the
44 Trial concerning the Fire Lords prisoners
" at the bar, shall be the truth, the whole
44 truth, and nothing but the truth : So
44 help you God, and tfie Contents of this
44 Book."
44 The said Five Lords may cross-examine
witnesses, vrva voce, at the bar.
44 That notice he given to the lord mayor,
aidermea, and sheriffs of the city of London,
and likewise to the deputy lieutenants and
justices of Middlesex, and the justices of the
peace of the city of Westminster, to take care
for the safe-guarding of the gates and places,
thereby to prevent the concourse of people re-
sorting to Westminster during the time of the
trial of the said lords."
This Report was read^and agreed to ; and it
is ordered, That it be communicated to the
committee of the House of Commons, by the
lords committees at their next meeting.
A Message was sent to the House of Com-
mons, to communicate to the Commons the Or-
der of this House, for appointing Tuesday ueat
for the trials of the Five Lords in the Tower.
Ordered, That the constable of his majesty'*
Tower in London, or, in his absence, the lieute-
nant thereof, be, and is hereby, required to
bring William earl of Po wis, William viscount
Stafford, William lord Petre, Henry lord Arun-
del de Wardour, and John lord Bellasis, now
prisoners tliere, to the bar of this House, in
Westminster- Hall, on Tuesday the 37th day of
this instant May, at nine of the clock in the
forenoon*
May 25.
The Lord President reported, u That the
Lords committees have met this morning, with
the committee of the House of Commons *r
and have delivered to them a copy of the
methods of proccediags agreed on yesterday
1275] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL mo.—Proctcdmgt agttinst the [1276
in order to the Trial of the Five Lords, and ap-
pointed to be communicated to them ; their
lordships hoping that therein all things were
adjusted which are uecessary to the said Trial.
" To which, the Commons desired to know,
Whether the paper now delivered, be delivered
as propositions to be debated, or as roles not to
be altered, which if so, seems as if the Lords would
pass by all that they have proposed ; and till
they have an answer to the more material pro-
positions they have made, they cao say nothing
to the minute circumstances in this paper;
and that the Lords are pleased by this paper to
answer several things not asked, but not to an-
swer what they do desire.
" Then the Lords did let them know, that
their lordships are not instructed to debate,
but shall acquaint the House with what they in-
sist on ; ana that the Lords meet on great dis-
advantage, if they should not have liberty to
propose, as well as the Commons ; and con-
ceive that there is no imposition put upon the
Commons by this paper; but the Commons
may make objections, and the Lords may de-
bate them : And that the Lords V*pect not any
present answer to the paper ; but hope they
will receive it as the Lords have received their
propositions.
" To this the Commons replying, That Tues-
* day next, set for tbe«aid Trial, growing near, it
will take up longer time to adjust these propo-
sitions than till Tuesday ; and some material
objections may be made against them : How-
ever, they shall receive this paper as proposi-
tions ; to which they intend not to give any
answer till they have an answer from the Lords
to their former proposition concerning the
Lords spiritual ; and tnat they think it not to be
according to the good correspondence that
ought to be between the committees of both
Houses, for the Lords to appoint a day of trial
without adjusting the time with them, having
formerly told them that that should be the last
thing to be agreed on.
<*The Commoos further added, That they do
not quit their former proposition, of the earl of
Danby's being tried before the Five Lords ; and
desired to know, whether the lords intend to
Proceed to the trial of the Five Lords on
'uesday next, though the Commons consent
not : And desired also, that the Lords would re-
port, That the Commons desire to know, whe-
ther they may expect any answer to their for-
mer proposition, concerning the Bishops ; with-
out which, the meetings of the committees will
be useless ; and one meeting more may put a
period to this committee/'
Upon consideration had of this Report, the
House made these resolutions following: The
question was put, " Whether it shall be an in-
struction to the lords committees, appointed
to meet the committee of the House of Coin-
moos, to let them know, that their lordships
are not impowered to give any other answer
than what is already given, concerning the
Lords spiritual ?" And it was resolved in the
affirmative.
" DistentUmO**, Buckingham, Shaftesbory,
Pr. Derby, Winchester^Hunungdon, Bedfoii,
Clare, Westmoreland, Stanford, Strafford, Her-
bert, F. Grey, Rochester, Say and Seale, B.
Eure, Rockingham, Delamer, Pagett, MoW
grave, Howard, J. Lovelace, Burlington, North
and Grey, P. Wharton."
Ordered, To let the Commons know, that the
-paper delivered this day contains the Orders of
the House of Lords, at bene ase, preparatorj
to the Trials ; yet such, that if the Common*
have any thing to object, or to offer to be add-
ed to them, the Lords will consider thereof,
and do what shall be reasonable.
The question being put, " Whether it shall be
an instruction to the Lords committees, ap-
pointed to meet with the committee of tie
House of Commons, to let them know, that
there occur to the Lords difficulties hi tat
case of the earl of Danbv, which are act
in the case of the other Five Lords ; and that
therefore the Lords have resolved to proceed
first to the Trial of the Five Lords f And it mi
resolved in the affirmative.
May 96.
The Lord President reported, "That os
Saturday the Lords delivered to the Conusosi
what was resolved and ordered the day before,
touching the bishops being at the trial of (he
Five Lords ; as also concerning the earl of Der-
by's trial ; and likewise touching the paper
containing the rules de folic esse to be observed
by the Lords at the Trials ; and told the Com-
mons, that that was all they had in conuDssd
to say.
"To which the Commons answered, Tbtt,
since the Lords have not thought fit to pis
such satisfactory answers to the proposition!
formerly made by them as they required, they
have received instructions from their House to
Eve no answer to the propositions made by the
ords, till the Commons former proposition! at
answered.
" That the Lords committees met ibe~coav
mittee of the House of Commons again ths
morning ; where the Commons said, That the/
had received instruction this moraine from
their House, to propose to the Lords, Whether
they be yet empowered to give any answer to
the propositions already made by the Com-
mons, touching the Lords spiritual, and tbe trial
of the pardon of the earl of Dauby ; aod to
acquaint the Lords, that they cannot give sot
answer to the propositions made by their lord-
sliips preparatorily to the trial, until thoie nat-
ters be adjusted."
" To which the Lords answered, The; «*
not yet empowered."
The messengers return with this answer:
That the Commons will give a Free Conference.
as is desired. The same Lords who naoaeei
the last Free Conference are appointed ts
manage this. ,
The House was adjourned, and the Lord'
went to the Conference; which being eudw|
the House was resumed.
1977] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680— Fw PcpUk Lords.
[1978
Then the Lord President reported the effect
of the Conference with the House of Com-
mons; viz. /
" The Commons have always desired, that a
good correspondence may be preserved be-
tween the two Houses.
" There is now depending between your
lordships and the Commons, a matter of the
greatest weight; in the transaction of which,
your lordships seem to apprehend some diffi-
culty in the matters proposed by the Com-
mons.
" To clear this, the Commons have desired
this Conference; and by it, they hope to mani-
fest to your lordships, that the propositions of
the House of Commons, made by their com-
mittee, in relation to the Trial of the Lords in
the Tower, have been only such as are well
warranted by the laws of parliament and con-
stitution of the government, and in no sort in*
trench upon the judicature of the Peers; but
are most necessary to be insisted upon, that
the ancient rights of judicature in parliament
may be maintained.
" The Commons readily acknowledge, that
the crimes charged upon the earl ot Powis,
▼iscoont Stafford, lord Petre, lord Arundel of
Wardour, and lord Bellasis, are of deep guilt,
and call for speedyjustice; but withal they hold
any change in judicature in parliament, made
without consent in full parliament, to be of per-
nicious consequence, both to his majesty and
his subjects; and conceive themselves obliged
to transmit to their posterity all the rights
which of this kind they nave received from their
ancestors; and by putting your lordships in
mind of the progress that has already been be-
tween the two Houses in relation to the propo-
sition made by the Commons, and the reason-
ableness of the propositions themselves, they
doubt not to make it appear, that their aim
has been no other than to avoid such conse-
quence, and to preserve that right ; and that
there is no delay of justice on their part ; and,
to that end, do offer to your lordships die en-
suingreasons and narrative :
"That the Commons, in bringing the earl of
Dan by to justice, and in discovery of that
execrable and traitorous conspiracy (of which
the five Popish lords now stand impeached,
and for which some of their wicked accom-
plices have already undergone* the sentence of
the law as traitors and murderers), have la-
beared tinder many great difficulties, is not un-
known to your lordships.
*' Nor is it less known to your lordships,
that, upon the impeachment of the House of
Commons against the earl of Danby, for High
Treason, and other high crimes, misdemeanors,
and offences, even the common justice of se-
questering him from parliament, and forthwith
committing him to safe custody was then re-
2uired hy the Commons, and denied by the
[ouse of Peers, though he then sat in their
House, of which your lordships have been so
sensible, that at a Free Conference, the 10th of
April last, your lordships declared, ' That it
4 was the right of the Commons, and well war-
' ranted by precedents of former ages, that,
* upon an impeachment of the Commons, a
' peer so impeached ought of right to be ordered
1 to withdraw, and then to he committed :' And
had not that justiceroeen denied to the Com-
mons, a great part of this session of parliament,
which hath been spent in framing and adjusting
a bill for causing the earl of Danby to appear
and answer that justice from which he was fled,
had been saved, and had been employed for the
preservation of his majesty's person and the se-
curity of the nation, and in prosecution of the
other Ave lords; neither had he had the oppor-
tunity of procuring for himself that illegal
pardon, which bears date the 1st of March last
past, and which he hath now pleaded in bar of
his impeachment, nor of wasting so great a
proportion of the treasure of the kingdonfl} as he
hath done since the Commons exhibited their
Articles of impeachment against him.
" After which time thus lost, by reason of
the denial of that justice which of right be-
longed to the Commons upon their impeach-
ment, the said bill being ready for the royal as-
sent, the said earl then rendered himself, and,
by your lordships order of the 16th of April
last, was committed to the Tower ; after which,
he pleaded the said pardon; aud, being prts$ed9
did at length declare, he would rely upon and
abide by that plea: Which pardon pleaded,
being illegal and void, and so ought not to bar
or preclude the Commons from having justice
upon their impeachment ; they did thereupon,
with their Speaker, on the 5th of May instant,
in the name of themselves and all the Com-
mons of England, demand judgment against
the said earl upon their impeachment; not
doubting but that your lordships did intend, in
all your proceedings upon the impeachment, to
follow the usual course and methods of parlia-
ment.
" But the Commons were not a little sur-
f>rised by the Message from your lordships, del-
ivered on the 7th of May, thereby acquaint-
ing tiiem, that as well the Lords spiritual as
temporal had ordered, that the 10th of May
instant should be the day for hearing the earl
of Dauby to make good his plea of pardon ;
and that, on the IStb of May, the other Five
Lords impeached should be brought to their
Trial ; and that your lordships bad addressed to
his majesty, for naming of a Lord High Steward,
as well in the case of the earl of Danby, as the
other Five Lords.
" Upon consideration of this said Message
the Commons found, that the admitting the
Lords spiritual to exercise jurisdiction in these
cases, was an alteration of the judicature in
parliament, and which extended as well to the
proceedings against the Five Lor^s, as the earl <
of Danby; and if a Lord High Steward should
be necessary upon trials on impeachments of
the Commons, the power of judicature in par-
liament upon impeachments might be defeated
by suspending or denying a commission to con-
stitute a Lord High Steward.
1979] STATE TUIA1S. 82 Ciuituft U. 168a— JY**«ttt# qgww* <A<? [MM
" And that the end days of trial appointed
Jty your lordships were so near to the time of
your said Message, that these matters and the
methods of proceedings upou the trials could
not be adjusted by conference, betwixt the two
Houses before the days so nominated ; and con-
sequently the Commons could not then pro-
ceed to trial, unless the seal which they had
for speedy judgment against the earl of Dan by
(that so they might proceed to the Trial of the
other Five Lords), should induce them at thii
juncture both to admit the enlargement of your
lordships jurisdiction, and to sit down under
these or any hardships (though with the hazard
of all the Commons power of impeaching fof
time to come), rather than the Trial of the Five
Lords should be deferred for some short time
whilst these matters might be agreed on and
settled*
" For reconciling differences in these great
and weighty matters, and for saving that time
which would necessarily hv.ve been spent in
debates at conferences betwixt the two Houses,
and for expediting the Trials, without giving op
the power of impeachments, or rendering them
ineffectual ; the Commons thought fit to pro-
Sose to your lordships, that a committee of
oth Houses might be appointed for this pur-
pose; at which committee (when agreed to by
your lordships) it was first proposed, that the
time of trial of the lords in the Tower should
be put off till the other matters were adjusted ;
and it was then agreed, that the proposition as
to time of trial should be the last thing con-
sidered; and the effect of this agreement
stands reported upon your lordships books.
" After which, the Commons communicated
to your lordships, by your committee, a vote
of theirs, viz. That the committee of the Com-
mons should insist upon the former vote of their
House, ' That the Lords spiritual ooght not to
4 have any vote in any proceedings againt the
' lords ia the Tower ;' and that, when that
matter should be settled and the methods of
proceedings adjusted, the Commons would then
be read v to proceed upon the Trial of the Par-
don of tie earl of Dauby, against whom they bad
befot e demanded judgment, and afterwards to
the Trial of the other Five Lords, in the Tower ;
Which vote extended, as well to the earl of Dan -
by, as the other Five Lords ; but the Commons
hare as yet received nothing from your lordships
towards an answer of that vote, save that your
lordships have acquainted tliem that the bishops
Itave asked leave of the House of Peers that
they might withdraw themselves from the Trial
of the said Five Lords, with liberty of entering
their usual protestation.
u And though toe Commons committee have
almost daily declared to your lordships com-
mittee, that that was a necessary point of right
to be settled before the trials, and ottered to
debate the some; your committee always
answered, That they had not any power from
yosv lordships either to confer upon, or to give
any answer concerning, that matter.
*t And yet your lordships, without having
given the Commons any satisfactory answer
to the said vote, or permuting any caafereoca
or debate thereupon, and contrary to the said
agreement, did on Thursday the S3d of May,
send a message to the Commons, declaring lait
the Lords spiritual as well as temporal had or-
dered that the 27th of this instant May be ap-
pointed for the Trial of the Five Lords.
" So that the Commons cannot but appre-
hend, that your lordships have not only departed
from what was agreed on, and in effect laid
aside that committee which was constituted fat
preserving a good understanding betwixt the
two Houses, and better dispatch of the weight}
affairs now depending in parliament ; bat aunt
also needs conclude, from the said message
and the vote of your lordships on the 14th of
May, that the Lords spiritual have a right to stay
and sit in court till tne court proceeds tv the
vote of Guilty or Not Guilty ; and from tat
Bishops asking leave (as appears by yoor tod-
ships books two days after your said vole), that
they might withdraw themselves from the Trial
cf the said Five Lords, with liberty of eateriag
their usual protestation ; and by their persist-
ing still to go on and give their votes in dis-
ceedings upon the impeachments, that their
desire of leave to withdraw at the said Trial a
only an evasive answer to the beforemeatiaod
vote of the Commons, and chiefly intended as
an argument for a right of judicature in pro-
ceedings upon impeachments, and as a reserve
to judge upon the earl of Danby's plea of a
pardon ; and upon these and other like ia>
prachments, although no such power was ever
claimed by their predecessors ; bot is utterly
deified by the Commons. And the Conotav
are the rather induced to believe it so intend**
because the very asking leave to withdraw,
seems to imply a right to be there, and thai
they cannot he absent without it. And be-
cause by this way they would have it in their
power,, whether or no, for the future, either A
the earl of Danby's case or any other, tbey sill
ever ask leave to be absent; and the tenaponl
lords a like power of denying leave, if that
should once be admitted necessary : the Com-
mons therefore are obliged not to proceed to
the Trial of any of the lords the £7th of this in-
stant May, but to adhere to their aforesaid vote.
and for their so doing, besides v-hat hath beta
now and formerly by them said to you* k*d*
ships, do offer you tltese reasons following:
" 1. Because your lordships have leceiw*
the earl of Danby's plea of pardon, with a very
long and onusual protestation; wherein kf
hath aspersed his majesty with fahe sugges-
tions, as if his majesty had commanded ar
countenanced the crimes he stands charged
with ; and particularly, suppressing and oV
couraging the discovery of the Plot, and en-
deavouring to introduce an arbitrary and if
ranoical way of government ; which rasa**
as a scandal upon record against his majesty
tending to render his person and goreramtuC
odious to his people^ egatsat which it osght w
M61] STATE TtoUAS- 32 Cham* H. 16m— Jftw P<p«A lonfr. f F/8*
<<
fce the first ami principal cure of both houses
to vindicate his majesty, by doing justice upon
the said earl.
9. The setting up a pardon to be a bar of
impeachment defeats the whole use and ef-
fect of impeachments. And should this point
be admitted, or stand doubted, it would totally
discourage the exhibiting any for the future ;
whereby the chief institution lor the preserva-
tion of the government (and consequently the
government i(4el§) would be destroyed ; And
therefore the case of tht said earl, which in
Consequence concerns ait impeachments what-
ever, ought to be determined before that of the
said Five Lords/ which is but their particular
case. And, without res of ting tu many autho-
rities* of greater antiquity, the Commons desire
your lordships to take notice (with the same
regard they do) of the declaration which that
excellent prince king Charles 1, of blessed me-
mory, made in this behalf, in his Answer to the
nineteen Pro position* of both House*) of parlia-
ment; wherein, stating the several parts of this
regulated monarchy, he says, " The Ring, the
House of Lords, and the House of Commons,
have each, particular privileges ;" and among
those which belong to the king, He reckons
power of pardoning; after the enumerating of
which, and other his prerogatives, his majesty
adds thus ; " Again, that the prince may not
make use of the high and perpetual power, to
the hurt of those for whose good he hath it, and
make use- of the name *>f public necessity, for
the gain of his private favourites and followers,
to the detriment of his pes* pie, the House of
Commons (nn excellent conserver of liberty,
cVc.) is solely entrusted with the first proposi-
tions, concerning the levies of monies, and the
impeaching of those, who, for their own ends,
thoogji countenanced by any surreptitiously-
gocteir command of the king, have violated that
law which be is bound (when he knows it) to
protect, and to the protection of which they
were bound to advise him, at least not to serve
him in the contrary; and the Lords,being trust-
ed with a judicatory power, are an excellent
tkreeo and bank between the prince and peo-
ple, to assist each against any encroachments of
the other, and by just judgments to preserve
that law, which ought to be the rule of every
one of the three, &c. Therefore the power
legally placed in both Houses, is more than suf-
ficient to prevent and restrain the power of
tyranny, &C.*
"3. Until the Commons of England have
right done them against this plea of pardon,
they may justly apprehend that the whole jus-
tice of the kingdom, in the case of the tive
Lords, may be obstructed and defeated by
pardons of like nature.
" 4. An Impeachment is virtually the voice
of every particular subject of this kingdom, cry-
ing out against an oppression by which every
memberof that body is equally wounded; and
it will prove a matter of ill consequence, that
the universality of the people should have occa-
sion ministered and continued to them, to be
VOL. VII.
apprehensive of utmost danger from the crown,
from whence they of right expect protection.
" 5. The Commons exhibited Articles of
Impeachment against the said earl, before any
against the other five Lords, and demanded
judgment upon those Articles ; whereupon your
lordships having appointed the Trial of the said
Karl to be before that of the other five Lords :
Now your lordships having since inverted that
order, gives a great cause Of doubt to the
House of Commons, and raises a jealousy in the
hearts- of all the Commons of EugJand, that, if
they- should proceed to the trial of the said Five
Lords in the fi rut place, not only justice will be
obstructed in the cuse of those lords, but that
titey bhall never have right done them, in the
matter of this plea of pardon, which is of so
fatal consequence to the whole kingdom, and a
new device to frustrate public justice in parlia>»
menr.
" Which reasons and matters being duly
weighed by your lordships ; the Commons
doubt not but your lordbhips will receive' satis-
faction concerning their propositions and pro-
ctedmgs; and will agree that the Commons
ought not, nor can, without deserting their trust,
depart from their former Vote, communicated
to your loroSltips, That the Lords spiritual
ought not to have any Vote in auy proceedings
against tbe lords in the Tower : And when that
matter shaH be settled, and the tntthod of pro-
ceedings adjusted, the Commons shall then be
ready to proceed upon the trial of the pardon
of the earl of Dan by (against whom they have
already demanded justice,) and afterwards to
the trial of the other five Lords in the Tower,*9
May 26^ p. m.
The House took into corisideration the Re-
port of the Conference with the House of Com-
mons this morning. At\6f for the more free
debate, tbe HcMue was adjourned during plea-
sure. The House was resumed. And, after a
lon#; debate,
This question was proposed, " Whether this
debate shril] be adjourned till 8 of the clock to*»
roorrow morning?" Then this previous question
was put, " Whether this question snail be now
put r
It was resolved in the affirmative* JTbe mms)
question was put ; and it was resolved in tht
affirmative.
The Narrative and Reasons deliverer? at thai
Conference yesterday with the House of Cons"'*
mons were again read. And, after a Ir.ng de-
bate, the Vote of this House, dated the 15th
of May instant, and the explanation thereupon,
doted the 14th instant, were read. And the
question was put, " Whether tq insist upon
these Votes concerning the Lords spiritual ?*
And it was resolved in the affirmative.
" Di&serttientibus, Buckingham, Huntingdon,
Kent, Shaftesbury. Pr. Bedford, Winchester,
Rochester, North and Grey, Suffolk?, J. Lover
lace, Townshend, Herbert, Grey, Stassford,
4N
to»»] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. mo.—Proc*cdmg$ agamu tht (MN
Say and Seale, Newport; Leicester, P. Whar-
'tnn, Scarsda'.e, Strafford, Derby, Delamer,
Howard, Pagett, Clare, Salisbury, Fauconberg,
Windsor/'
House or Lords, October 25> 1C80.
Ordered, That all such books, papers, and
informations or depositions, relating to the late
h>rrid Plot and Conspiracy, which have been
by his majesty's order transmitted from his
'privy council board to this House, shall be
perused by the lords committees for examina-
tion of matters relating to the said horrid Plot;
who*e lordships are hereby empowered to trans-
mit to the House of Commons such of them as
they shall judge necessary or useful for that
House, in order to the trial of the Lords rn the
Tower;* as also such other examination^ as their
lordships of the said Committee shall take re-
lating thereunto.
House of Commons, AW. 9, 1680.
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to
inspect the Journals of the two last parliaments,
and to make a report of their proceedings, as
well relating to the Popish Plot, as of the Im-
peachment against the Lords in the Tower, do
present their report on Thursday morning next,
mi writing.
November 10.
Resolved, nem. con. That this .House will
proceed in the prosecution of the Lords in the
Tower: And will forthwith begiu with William
viscount Stafford.
Ordered, That sir William Jones be added
4o the Committee, appointed to inspect the
Journals of the two last parliaments, relating to
the Popish Plot, and the impeaclmients of the
Lords in the Tower: And the said Committee
i* to sit de die i'm dian-
Novembfr 1*2.
Resolved, That a Message be sent to the
Lords to acquaint them with the Resolution of
this House to procred to the Trial of the Lords
in the Tower; and forthwith begin with Wil-
liam viscount St ilford ; and to desire their lord-
•hips to appoint a convenient day for the Trial
of the said William viscount Stafford: And
likewise to desire their lordships, That the
Lords in the Tower may be confined, and kept
from holding correspondence with one another,
as persons impeached and committed for High-
Treason by law ought to be : And that Mr Wil-
Jiam June* do go up with this Message to the
Lords.
Sir Francis Winnin^ton reported, and" de-
livered in at the clerk's table, the ubstracts of
the proceedings of the two last parliaments, as
'well relating to the Popish Plot, as io tlje Im-
peachments against the Lords in the Tower.
.. Ordered, That the Report, now delivered in,
be read to-morrow morning.
House of Lords, Nov. \%
A Message was brought from the Commons,
by sir William Jones and others :
To acquaint their lordships with their mob-
tion to proceed to the Trial of the Lords io tht
Tower, and forthwith to begin with Willim
viscouut Stafford; and to desire their lordship
to appoint a convenient day for the Trial of tht
said William viscount of Stafford. Also to de-
sire the Lords in the Tower may be conSoed,
and kept from holding correspondency with
one ano:her, as persons impeached and com-
mitted for High-Treason by law ought to be.
Hereupon the Lords made^hese ensuing 0r«
ders following :
" Ordered, That Tuesday the 30th day of
this instant November be, and is hereby, ap-
pointed for the trial of William visconnt of
Stafford, now prisoner io the Tower, upon tht
impeachment of tlie House of Commons.
" Ordered, That the lieutenant of his ids.
jesty's Tower of London be, and is btreby, re-
quired to take care and order, That WillaB
earl of Powis, William viscount Stafford, Wi
liana lord Petre, Henry lord Arundel of War-
der, and John lord Bellasis, prisoners under fes
charge for high treason, be so confined aid
kept from holding: correspondence with one
another, as persons impeached and conuniaei
for high treason by law ought to be."
The Answer returned by the messengers wai:
That the Lords have ordered, That the lords ii
the Tower shall not have any correspondfMj
one with another. Also that the Lords awe
appointed, That Tuesday come fortnight is *p
pointed for the trial of the lord viscoaat
Stafford.
Ordered, That the lords with white stawi
do attend his majesty, to let him know from
this Uouse, " That they have appointed to bi«
William viscount Stafford brought to bis trill
ou Tuesday the 30th of this present November,
in Westminster Hall, upon the Impeachment
of the House of Commons against Jura f aoi
humbly to desire his majesty, *' That be willU
pleased to appoint a Lord High Stewnrd for til
purpose aforesaid, to continue during theu»
trial."
November IS.
The Lord Chamberlain reported, "Tbatbii
majesty will appoint a Lord High Steward, for
the trial of the lord viscount Stafford/
November 16.
Upon reading the humble Petition of Willi**
viscount of Stafford ;
" Shewing ; That he received, on Friday
night last, an order, That his trial was by th»
lordships appointed to be on the 30th of B*
month. He doth most humbly beseech their
lordships, to command all the peers tW
are absent to attend upon tneir lordships si : w
trial. He doth likewise most submr*M*elysM?
unto their lordships, that Mr. Ralph LawWJJJ
now
pus
Court w. «*>••£- «^r.JVi«, «**••%,•. j. ,
and that he is so necessary for bis lonW jj
trial, that be is no ways able to make an V*
12SS]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaeles If. i6B0.— F«* ZtyirA Lor*.
[1286
-defence before their lordships without htm ; his
lordship not knowing the names of several of
-his witnesses ; and for other reasons belonging
unto his trial. Likewise humbly shewed), that
he fears that he can no way have his wituesses
so soon iu town. Therefore, with submission,
most humbly beseecbetb their lordships, to
grant him some days longer for his trial, and to
grant him an order for his witnesses to appear ;
«nd to assign him Mr. Wall ope, Mr. Saun-
ders, and Mr. Huut, to be of his counsel."
Hereupon the House made the following
-Orders :
" It appearing, by die petition of the lord
viscount of Stafford, now a prisoner in the
•Tower, and shortly to come upon his trial upon
the impeachment of the Home of Commons,
That Mr. Ralph Lawson, who is a person ne-
cessary for his lord's defence at his trial, is de-
tained prisoner at Rye, aud that an Habeas
Corpus hath been issued for bringing him up,
which hath not been obeyed : it is this day or-
dered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal iu
parliament assembled. That his majesty's writ
of Habeas. Corpus in due form be forthwith
issued, for bringing up the said Ralph Larson,
in order to the service aforesaid/'
"Upon -reading of the petition of the lord
viscount of Stafford, praying (among other
things) that be may have an order for witnesses
to be made use of in bis lordship's defence upon
bis trial, now appointed : it is ordered, by the
JLords Spiritual and Temporal in parliament as-
sembled, That the clerk of the parliaments shall
issue out an order, or orders, for summoning
•such persons as the said viscount Stafford snail
from time to time send in the names of, to be
summoned as witnesses for the purpose afore-
yf
Ordered, That Mr. Wallop, Mc Saunders,
suid Mr. Hunt, be, and are hereby, at the de-
sire of the lord viscodnt Stafford, now prisoner
in the Tower, assigned to be of counsel for his
lordship, in order to his defence in mat-
ters of law upon his trial upon, the Impeach-
ment of the House of Commons, whereby he is
charged with high treason ; and that the said
Mr. Wallop, Mr. Saunders, and Mr. Hunt,
may have free access to the said viscount Staf-
ford for that purpose.
. Sir Timothy Baldwin delivered in the Infor-
mation which he had taken of William Lewis,
by order of this House ; which Information
was in the presence of the said William Lewis
read; who acknowledged the same to be true.
The contents of which Information is as/ol-
ioweth :
"The Information of William Lewis, sworn
before the House of Peers, this 13th of
November, 1680.
. u Who saitb, That, coming out of sir John
Morton's service, and being acquainted from
bis childhood with one Walter Jones, a priest,
sometimes belonging to Wild- house, he applied
himself to the said Jones, to help him to a ser-
vice ; who earned this informant to Grove's
house, at the Golden Ball in York Street, in
Coveat Garden ; which Grove was since exe-
cuted. And this informant and Mr. Jones
went to the Wind-mill Tavern, in Bridges
Street, which was about the lime when the last
army for Flanders was upon raising, by the ap-
pointment of Grove ; and thither he came also,
and promised this informant all kindness in his
power; desiring this infomrant to come to his
house, which this informant often did. And
after about four month* intimate acquaintance
with the said Grove, this informant told M*r.
Jones, * he had not been at confession a long
time.' Upon which, he advised this informant
to go to Mr. Harcourt, in Grove's house, where
there was an altar up one pair of stairs. And,
after this informant had made his confession to
Mr. Harcourt, Grove told this informant,
'thai if*he would be ruled by him tire said
Grove, he this informant should be made for
ever/ Whereunto this informant replied,
' It was possible he would/ And then the
said Grove took up a pistol, which lay upon
the left hand of the altar ; and said* ' This is
that which must do the business/ During
which discourse, the said Harcourt, Fenwick,
the said Jones, and Pickering, with others, who
made up about the number of seven, turned
their backs, as if they would not take notice o£
the discourse aforesaid ; and then the said
Grove told this informant, ' that he would not
tell what the business was, until this informant
had taken the Sacrament to be secret:' which
this informant then took, tlie said Grove and
Pickering taking the Sacrament at the same
time. Which Sacrament being over, the altar,
chalice, and other materials belonging to the
service, were taken down ; and so the persons
aforesaid sat down about the table in the same
room. And then Grove said to this informant,
' You have taken the Sacrament of secrecy ;
and so have we ;' meaning himself and Pick*
ering. This informant replied, ' Yes;' pro-
mising to be secret. Whereupon the said Grove
further said, * What I desire you to effect with
me is, to kill the ki.vg ; and you shall venture
no further than I and Pickering.1 This inform-
ant answered, * Kill the kiog! for what?'
Then all or most of the company then prevent
answered, 'To kill the king, ininga heretic,
or any other heretic, to propagave the llotnan
Catholic religion, is no sin.' And then they
proceeded to make great promises of large gra-
tuities to this informant, so as he would venture
therein as they did; and they did intimate
1,000/. at the least, aud that the best persons
in England would engage for it. And asked
this informant, ( If he knew the lord Peters
and the lord Stafford?' To which this informant
answered, ' He did.' Tlien Grove scratched
his head, seeming a little concerned at this in*
formant's knowledge of those two lords. Then
they asked, * Whether thi* informant knew
the lord Arundel, the lord Powis, and the lord
Bellasis?' To which this in for inant answered,
' He did not.' And after some other dis-
course to the same effect, the company parted $
1SSSJ STATE TRIALS, *£ Ch**lt* ]
•nd Grave desired this informant to send t*>
hitn where be should mfeulwo ; imd Jones did,
sifter the met ting afore*uid, say, ' That Kelly
was one of the number aforesaid.' The next
day this informant seat to G»nrve, to come to
-hiui to a tavern neur his own houeie ; and
iheuoe went to tlie Plow AU-hnase at Somerset
Water Gate, where the said Jones met him.
And this informant there told Groie, * he
had hooght a horse, lo go -into the enrl of Ox-
ford's guards ; and if he should omit his oppor-
tunity, and go along with him and miscarry, it
would he to this informant's prejudice/ And
thereupon the said Groie answered, * that
this informant need not fear any thing, but
should be made a man for ever ; for you shall
hove the hest persons in 'England engage for
what is promised unto you.' Whereto chis
informant replied, * How shall i be sure of
that? I have yet nothing but the bare word.'
Whereupon the said Grove took a manual and
bis beads out of his pocket ; and swore, ' a
person of quality should come himself, and en-
cage his honour that what was promised, should
be performed ;' and directed this informant
' the next day to meet him In Somerset House
Chapel; and if that were not open,. to walk
about the coach houses, about nine in t* e
tnorning ;' which was in or about the month of
May, 167-8. heing about three or four months
before die Plot was discove red. And the said
Grove tlven met this informant before the stud
coach bouses, and took this informant with him
to the s;tid Plow Ale-house ; saying, * the
person of quality would not come till the after-
noon ;' and desired this informant to meet
bim at lour in that afternoon, in the same
(dace ; where he met fhts informant, and con-
ducted him to the Pi aw a, or arct»ed place, in
the garden of Somerset House ; and there was
Harcourt, Fen wick, and Pickering, who walked
with this informant and Grove about two
hours; at Which time a person came down (he
Hairs, and asked, • Which was die man V To
which Grove answered, 'This is 'he;' shewing
this informant. Upon which, the said person,
whom this informant knew to be the lord Arun-
del, though they pretended was the lord Bella-
fis; and the said lord Arundel took this in-
formant from the company, and told this in-
formant, ' thai he was sensible that they had
sold this informant what he whs to d<>.' Where
Dpon this informant asked his lordship, ' What
he was to dor4 Who replied in these words,
4 You are to go along with Grove, to assassi-
tiftte the king ;' adding, ' you shall have
1,500/. paid you as soon as the business is ef-
fected ; and if you will tarry in England, you
shall have a commission in the Catholic army
trhich is to be raised ; otherwise you shall be
safely transported into France, or where you
please ;' and thereupon g*ve this informant a
guinea; and so my lord left this informant.
And then* Grove asked this informant, 'Whe-
ther he was satisfied r* And this informant
answered, ' Yes ;' and then repeated all the
labours* thstt imd passed between the said
lord and this informant CJpon which,
ooaf t told -this informant, ' that if he did est
like going into tfrance, he sbotdd go to Flo-
rence, wliere the eaid 1 «rd Arundel had graft
interest.' And this informant saith, That a*
»ord Arundel he means by tUss lnturaiatioa a
squint-eyed, and hath a kind of a wart Sfios sa
nose. And this infoiinaot farther saith, Thst
as to what .he gave the House of sheets an so*
count of, as to Mrs. Klbot and Mr. Thomp-
son, concerning st Hue •circumstances relating 4s
the dube of Yopk, and the five games* re-
ceived by Mr. Thompson's hand h> tun ■>
format* near St. J«meVs H >uae, ifai* inftmuut
refers himself to the informations taken beta
Mr. J«»tice Rich. And fun her at preset***
not. " Willi ah Lewis.*
Signed and acknowledged, in the presence sf
TiSHiTUV Bald wist.
Pe. Rich. x
Edsjond Watccukp.
Noxxmber 23.
Ordered, That it be, and is hereby, fifijuutf
to the lords committees tor ■prrvde^*, to sdnsj
anthoonstder of what directions, rules, andwfr
thods, are fit to be observed, for prcservatisi
of order and regularity in tlse trial of the lord
vHcouift Stafford, now to be tried, together wsi
ail such circumstances as occur m such tusk,
and make report unto the House.
November 96.
Ordered, That his majesty's surveyor
ral be,*nd is hereby, required to view the
and sraffbids prepared io Wesinsiiwter hdl, **
the trial of the lord viscount Stidford, and at
that they be strong and firm ; and gi*# (hi
House an account thereof on Monday neit, *
nine of the cloak.
Ordered, Ibat (he lord great dtusdwrk**,
or his deputy, be, and Is herehy, desired ft
take care that the plates in Westminster ksl
behind the lords, be kept for peeresses ssi
cheir daughters, at their trial of the lord «*>
count Stafford*
Sfovanber 27.
The House took mto crtnshtefntion the *s>
sage brought yesterday from the House of Cea>
moos, u That this House would appoint s con-
mittee, to join with a committee or the flosse*
Commons, for the adjusting the methods st*
circumstances in the trials of the lordi» d*
Tower/'
The question being put, " Whether s ew
mittee of this House shall be appoiftted, ts
meet with a committee of the House of /u-~
mons, to adjust the methods audcircuuistsacef
of the' trial of the lord viscount Stafford Fit
was resolved in the affirmative.
TVn the House named these Lords Mb*"
ing, to be a committee to join with a coB»to*t
of the House of Commons to adjust tl* f**
thods and circumstances of the trisl of the
lord viscount Stafford.
E, of Salisbury, fi, of Essex, B. ef Ayta***
M9ST) <SOMlte TBL&CaS, M GsUtuis IL &08T»~Fte Ptipitk Lor<h. [1810
*he lord Wharton, end the lord Howard of flsc.
<Or any three uf them ; to meet this afternoon,
^tta*ee<*t 4he olees? in the inner Court of
Warts.
•
A message was sent to the House of Gom-
<om>h?, b? air Timothy Baldwin and sir Samuel
4?s»r«e:
tTo let then* know, that the Lords "have »p-
rpointed a committee of fire Lords, to raw* with
.a cwmmiitoe of the Commons to adjust the me-
thods and circumstances of the lord viteoont
Stofibrd's trial ; and they faste appointed 'die
diwe Lords to meet this afternoon, at three of
-she clock in the inner Gouvi of Warcis.
The messengers return with this answer :
Ttmt tbe<jommoits wih^rve* meeting as is
desired.
•House of Common*, November 29.
Sir William Jones reports, <from the com-
mittee appointed to meet with the committee
-of Lards, for the adjusting of methods am cir-
cumstance* relating to the Trials*** the Lords in
the7 3Wer, tmtt the said committee Hid meet
on Saturday last : And that the committee of
4ord* being a*k*d, by the committee of this
4iou<e, whether their lordships had any propo-
sitions to make to the said committee, touch-
ing the methods and circumstances to be- had
4n the Trials of the -Lords in the Tower; their
Jordships made answer, that the Lords hadsetit
down a paper to this House, containing seve-
ral propositions; and that the Lords crtn-
Oitteestnew of no other propositions.
That their lordships heing asked, Whether
•iie commission of the Lord High-Stew nrd were
afcrawn in the same manner a* that in Hie hist
fmrhamem wen drawn; and « her her the clause
* cujus pnesentia in hac parte lequiritur' were
srwened ; their terdehtps answered, that rhey
could not *give any account thereof ; hut that
they w«u4d otake report of tife said proposi-
tion to ttfe House of Peers; and would trfter-
truwds give answer to this committee therein.
That their toT<fehip*i being a*k<»d, Whether
they could give tiny assurance, thrft the kmis
spiritual Would he absent «t ttie trtah, the>r
lord <*w da made answer, That they hftd no
{lower from the House of Lords to give any ac-
♦oom in that matter; hut that their lordship;
would report the same t » the House of Peers ;
and return an answer to the said committee the
next meeting.
And further, that the said committees had
agreed to meet again at twelve of the clock
this day.
Ordered, That the said committee do meet
the committee of lords, at 12 of the clock this
day.
Sir William Jones reports from the committee
appointed to meet with a committee of the
lords, for adjusting the methods and circum-
stances relating to the trials of the Lords in
the Tower, That the committee having met,
their lordships returned an answer to several
propositions made by the committee of this
House as followetb ; via,
That, as to the question, Whether the com-
mission iff the lord liigh steward be the same
now, as it was tin? last parliament ; the Lords
'Committees answered, that the commission dif-
fers not from that which passed in the lest par-
liament, otherwise timn in that tba name of she
lord Stafford is inserted in this commission, ra
the frfac£« where tin? names of the Fire Popish
Lords impeaohed were inserted in the former
commission.
That, as touching the Lords spiritoal, Whe-
ther they ft ould be present at the trial of the
lord Staffoid; their lordships have returned
assurance, that the Lords spiritual are not to be
present at the trj.il.
That their lordships acquainted the saideom-
miuee, that the prisoner is to be brought to-
morrow morning at ten of the clock.
That the said committee, having acquainted
the Lords committees with the vote of this
House touching their coming as a committee
to the Trial of the lord Start >rd, rande a propo-
posal'to the Lords committees, taking notice of
one of the rates sent do-* n from ibe Lords ; viz.
" That, when the < ominous should ask any
question in the trial, They should apply thetn-
spkes to the Lord High Steward:'1 And that
this commit we made some exceptions thereunto,
rhry taking the Lord High Steward slot ws a
necessury pari of the court, hot only as the
Speaker of the House of Lords; aMedgrag,
Ti«at, when the Commons speak co the court,
they ought to wry, u My Lords/1 not " My
Lord, or Yonr Graee."
Awd ihat then the commit tees adjourned to
9 of the clock to-morrow morning.
Ordered, That the members of this House do
sit together, without mingling with any other
persons in that place which is prepared for
them, nt the Trial of the lord Stafford: And
Mr. Howard, captain of the yeomea of the
guards, is desired to take care therein.
Ordered, That a committee be afmemtssfl
forthwith to view the scaffold erected in West-
minster-hall for the said Trial : And they-are
empowered to send for such persons as they
shall see occasion to make use of m tins ser-
vice.
The House being informed, from the com-
mittee appointed to prepare evidence against
the Lords in the Tower, That a certain person
inhabiting in Shrewsbury, being summoned to
appear as a witness in the Trials of the popish
Lords in the Tower, did refuse so to do; and
that it was not convenient, that his name
should as yet be publicly known.
Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do» issue out his
warrant to the serjeant at arms attending this
House, to bring in custody the said person, to
be named to Mr. Speaker from the said com-
mittee, for his warrant for that purpose.
November 30.
Ordered, That the serjeant at arms attend-
ing this House do go with his mace, and sum-
mon all the members of this House, that are in
or about Westminster-hall, immediately to at-
tend the service of the House,
1391] STATE TRIAUS, 33 Cha&lis IL 1 MO.— Proceeding agem* tie [UB
House of Lords, November 30.
The earl of Essex reported from the commit-
tee of both Houses, " That yesterday their
lordships Agreed with the Commons, that the
members of the House of Commons who are to
manage the evidence against the lord viscount
of Stafford, at his trial, should speak to the
Lords as a House, and not to the Lord High
Steward.
Upon which, it being moved, " That their
lordships would consider, whether it be not fit
to have his majesty's commission for a Lord
High Steward read in this House, before an
adjournment be made into Westminster Hail :"
It was agreed to.
Then a Commission for appointing a Lord
High Steward for the triai of the lord viscount
of Stafford, was read (all the Peers standing up
uncovered), as follow eth :
' Carolus R.
4 Carolus secundas, Dei Gratia, Angl. Sco'e,
4 Francis, et Hibernise Rei, Fidei Defensor,
4 &c. Pncdilecto et Fideli Consiliario Nostro He-
4 neagio Dom. Finch Dom. Cancellario Nostro
4 Angliss, Salutem : Cum Will'us Comes Powis,
'Will'us Vicecomes Stafford, Henricus Domi-
4 nus Arundel! de Wardour, Will'us Dominns
4 Petre, et Joh'es Dominus Bellasis, coram
* Nobis in Parliamento, per Milites, Cives, et
4 Burgenses, in Parliamento Nostro assemblat.
4 de Alta Proditioae, et aliis atrocissimis Cri-
4 minibus et Offensis, per ipsos Will'um Comi-
4 tern Powis, Will'um Vicecomitem Stafford,
4 Hemic. Dominum Arundell de Wardour,
4 Will'um Dominum Petre, et Joh'em Donai-
4 num Bellasis, commiss. et perpetrat. in No-
4 mine ipsorum.Militum, Civium, et Burgen-
4 sium, et Nomine omnium Communium Regni
4 Nostri Angliss, impetiti et accusati exist uot ;
4 Nos, considerantes quod Justitia est Virtus ex-
4 celloos, et Altissimo complacens, voleotesque
4 quod praedictos Will'us Vicecomes Stafford,
4 de et pro Proditione et aliis CriminibusetOf-
4 fensis, unde ipse (ut prssfertur) irn petit us et
4 accusatus existit, coram Nobis, in prsescnti
4 Parliamento Nostro, secundum Leg. et Con-
4 suetudin. hujits Regni Nostri Angl. et secun-
4 dum Consuetudineni Parliaments audiatur,
4 examinetur, sententietur, et adjudicetur, ca-
4 teraque omnia qua in hac Parte pertinent
debito Modo excrceantur et exequaatsr; se
pro eo quod Proceres et Magnates in prases*
Parliament* Nostro .assemblat. Nobn bran-
lime supplicaveront, utSenescallam Angl. pro
hac Vice constituere dignaremur; Nos, de
Fidelitate, Prndeotia, provide Circooispcc-
tione, et industria vestris plurimum confides-
tes, ordinavimus et* constkuimus vos, ex hac
Causa, Senescallum Angliss, ad Offiriumiihd,
cum omnibus eidem Officio in hac Parte debit
et pertinen. (hac Vice) gerend. occupaad. et
exercend. Et ideo Vobis mandamus, qoo4
circa Prssmisaa diligenter intendatis, et omais
quae in hac Parte ad Officium Seoescalli At-
gle pertinent et requiruntur, hac Vice, fiat*
tis, exercetis, et exequamini cum Effiectu. Is
cujus Rei Testimonium, hat Literal Nostra
fieri feciraus Patentes.
4 Teste Meipso, apud Westra. Triee-
4 simo die Noveuibris, Anao Repri
* Nostri Tricesimo Secundo. Per
4 ipsum Regem, propria Maaa isj*
< net.
44 Bai&ib.9
Then the Lord Bishop of London, for bis*
self and thereat of the Bishops, delivered bt
Protestation ; which they desired may be ca-
tered; which was- read, asfoUowetb:
" The Lords spiritual of the House of Peers
do desire the leave of this House, to be absent
from the trial of the lord viscount Staoord; fa*
protestation, earing to themselves and the?
successors all such rights in judicature as nev
have by law, and of right ought to have."
Then in regard of the age and weakaeaof
the lord viscount Stafford, it was agreed, that
his lordship should be permitted to have s
stool or chair to sit on. .
The House having taken into considerstios
the formalities to be observed in theproceedisfi
at the trial of William lord viscount Stafford ■
Westminster-hall; agreed, That the serjesst
at arms be continued in the House, to asU
proclamations which are to be made in de
king's name.
Then the House was adjourned iato WesV
minster-hall; whither the Lords weot, iatfast
order as they have directed; Garter kingat
arms calling them in their due places bf •
list.
I«98J STATE TRIALS, 50 Chakles II. mo.—Pke Popish Lords. [1294
The Trial of William Viscount Stafford,* before the Lords at
Westminster, on an Impeachment for High Treason,
32 Car. II. November 30, a. d. 1680,
resolution of that House, to proceed to die.
Trial of those Lords, then in the Tower, and
forthwith to begin vviih the said viscount Staf-
ford, and to desire their lordships to appoint a
convenient day for the Trial of the said viscount
The First Day.
William earl of Powis, William viscount
Stafford, Henry lord Arundel of Ward our,
William lord Petre, and John lord Bellasis,
having been formerly impeached in the House 'Stafford: Their lordships did thereupon appoint
of Lords, of High Treason, and other high
crimes and offences,by the House of Commons,
an the name of themselves, and of all the Com-,
moos of England:
And the House of Commons having sent a
Message to the Lords, to acquaint the ni with the
* "The other great business of this parlia-
ment was the Trial of the viscount of Stafford,
who was the younger son of the old earl of
Arundel, and so was uncle to the duke of Nor-
folk. He was a weak but a fair conditioned
man : be was in ill terms with his nephew's
family : and had been guilty of great vices in
his youth, which had almost proved fatal to
him : he married the heiress of the great
family of the Staffords. He thought the king
had not rewarded him for his former services
as he had deserved : so he often voted against
the court, and made great applications always
to the earl of Shaftesbury. He was in no good
terms with the duke ; for the great considera-
tion the court had of his nephew's family made
him to be the most neglected : When Oates de-
posed first against him, he happened to be out
of the way : and he kept out a day longer.
But the day after he came in, and delivered
himself: which, considering the feebleness of
his temper, and the heat of that time, was
thought a sign of innocence. Oates and Bed-
low swore, he had a patent to be paymaster
general to. the army, Dugdale swore, that he
offered him 500/. to kill the king. Bedlow had
died the summer before at Bristol. It was in
the time of the assizes : North, Lord Chief
Justice of the common pleas, being there, he
sent for him, and by oath confirmed all that be
had sworn formerly, except that which related
to the queen, and to the duke. He also denied
upon oath, that any person had ever practised
upon him, or corrupted bim : His disowning
some of the particulars which he had sworn
had an appearance of sincerity, and gave much
credit to his former depositions. I could never
hear what sense he expressed of the other ill parts
of his life, for he vanished soon out of all men's
thoughts." Burnet.
Sir John Rcresby thus mentions this case :
" Westminster-hall was the place, and I think
it was the deepest solemnity I ever saw. Great
were the expectations of the issue of this event,
it being doubtful whether there were more who
believed there was any plot by the papists in
reality against the king's life, than not. He
was impeached by the Commons, and being
the 30th day of November 1680, for his Trial.
And a place in West minster- ball having been for
that purpose erected, the same was as followeth :
viz. Therein were both seats and wool- packs,
correspondent in all points to those in the
House of Lords ; as also a state placed at the
deemed to be weaker than the other Lords in
the Tower, for the same crime, and less able
to labour his defence, was purposely marked
out to be the first brought on ; but be deceived
them so far as to plead his cause to a miracle.
The three chief evidences against him, were
Dr. Oates, Dugdale, and Turberville : the first
swore that his lordship had brought him a
commission signed by the pope, to be pay-
master of the army to be raised against the
king ; and the second that he had offered him
five hundred pounds to kill the king ; and the
third, that he had offered him a reward for
the dreadful deed, but at a different time. And
so positive seemingly were they in this and other
dangerous evidence, that I, * ho sat and heard
most of the trial, had not known what to think
had the witnesses been but men of any the
least credit ; but indeed such were the incohe-
rences, and indeed contradictions which seemed
to me to arise towards the latter end, that con-
sidering them, and the very evil name of the
people that swore against this lord, I was fully
satisfied that all was untruth they laid to his
charge. But the poor gentleman was condemn-
ed by a majority of 22. He heard his accusers
and defended himself with great steadiness and'
resolution, and received his sentence with great
courage and composure ; nor did he stoop be-
neath the weight of his doom, till he submitted
his head to the block, with his last breath pro-
testing his innocence, and the cruel wrong he
suffered. My lord Halifax was one that gave
his voice for him ; and the king, who heard alL
his trial, was extremely concerned at the ri-
gour and abruptness of his fate."— " The
unfortunate lord Stafford came to the House
of Lords, and was admitted under a no-
tion that he had some discovery, or confession
to make, concerning the popish plot : but iu-
stead of that, he only protested his own inno-
cence, and accused lord Shaftsbury of a cor-
respondence with the papists, and of sending
him to the duke of York, to desire him to use
his interest with the king to dissolve the long
parliament, as the best thing that could be done
to favour the popish interest, and so he was re-
manded back again. — Lord Stafford was led
MOST ST ATg TRIALS, SfrClwsnwII. f66U~Jr*c<*a%y<yoi»s»*ftg [HM
upper end thereof, with a cabinet for the king,
atio whom hi) majesty should think fit to at
tend him there, on the right hand the state ;
and the like ou tbe left hand,, for the* queen
and her followers ; a» also galleries over head
for ambassadors and othets.
And to the end that the Commons, might be
fitted with stats upon tois great occasion^ there
were erected I't tliem on each side, direr*
benches, on several degrees, extending to the
utmost walls of the Hall. -
At the lower end the bar wbeiwoto. tbe pri-
soner* were to be brought being placed,
on the right hand thereof was a place raised
about five foot, wherein -the witnesses we*e
lo stand; and on the left hand a convenient
room for those- particular members- of the
House of Commons who were to manage the
evidence.
And the right honourable Heneage ford
Finch, Baron of Davenrrv, Lord High Chan-
cellor of England, being by his majesty's spe*
cial letters patent* bearing date the 30th of No-
vember 1680, constituted Lord High Steward
for that present" occasion ; upon Tuesday the
said 30th of November, die Lord High Stew*
«Td was honoornliiy attended from his house in
Queen street by all * the judges of his majesty's
courts in Westminster Hall, in their robes ; as
also by Garter principal king of arms, in his
majesty's coat of aims, and the gentleman
usher of the black-rod, unto whom his majesty
had before delivered the iwhite wand, to be
carried before his loidship : and about nine of
the clock in the morning set forward* in his
coach towards Westminster, sitting at tire
binder end thereof; Garter and the gentleman
who bore the great.seal sitting both uncovered
at the other end ; one of the serjesmts at arms,
with his mace, being placed oiV the right side
the coach, and the usher of the biack rod, car-
rying the *hite wand, on the left side; the
judges and his lordship's gentlemen in several
conches following after.
Being thus come to the stairs- fbot, ascend-
ing to the House of Peers, the judges weut up
two and two together (the joniors first); next
the Lord High Steward's gentlemen ; after them
to the scaffold on Tower-bill, where he persisted
in the firmest denial of what was laid to his
charge, and that in so cogent, convincing, and
persuasive a manner, that all the beholders be-
lieved his words, and grieved his destiny/' In
other parts of his Memoirs Rerrsby informs us,
that on October 23, 1978, the king told him at
tbe duchess of Portsmouth's lodgings, the Lord
Treasurer ulso being present, that he took
Oates's account of tbe tragedy of sirEdraundbury
Godfrey, bis getting admittance to the Jesuits
College at St. Omers, &c. to be some artifice,
aad that he did not believe one word of the
whole story: and that on the 9Ut of November
following, the king farther told him, that Bed-
low was a rogue, and that he was satisfied he
had given some false evidence concerning the
deatE of air Edmund bury Godfrey.
3
tbe serjeant at arms with his mace, and the
seal bear**; and lastly, the * ntlenjmosUr of
the black rod, beating the white- wind;
Garter principal king of anna going ou bis njbt
hsMicL
Then his lordship alone, his train borne by
one of his gentlemen. In thw manner enter-
\ mg the House of Peers, he found all the Lords
in their scarlet robes, also the. Bishops in their
loebets, and took bis* place* upon the upper.
» meet wootaaek*
This done-, and prayers ended, his eonnais*
aion fur Lord High Steward was read; tod
thew tbe Bishops receded, and tbe Lord* ad-
joiuDcd theanselvea into the new erected court
in Westminster-hall.
A4v thing* being thus in readiness, and • large
doer»pleoe broken thtougb tbe upper end; of
Westminster* half, into that room which vts
heretofore tbe Court of Wards :
'f heir lordships passed from their House first
into the Painted Chamber, then through thtt
called theCours*of Requests; thence, tunnot
on tbe left band', into that called the Court of
Wards; then entered at the door, so broke
down as- aforesaid, into Wrstminster-haH, sod
passed through a long gallery, placed between
the- King's- bench and Chancer j Cooru, into
this new erected Court in Westminstep-baH
and proceeded after this manner, viz.
First, the assistants to the clerk of the par-
liament.
Then the clerk of the crown in chancery, aid
clerk of the periiaulent;. after them the master!
in chancery two and' two, and the king's attor-
ney-general alone.
Then the Judges of all the coerts in We*
minster-liall, by two and two.
Next to them the noblemen's eldest sow.
After them four Serjeants at arms, beariof
their maces.
Neit tbe gentleman-usher of the black-rod.
Then all the noblemen, according to their
respective degrees, the juniors first, vis. barons,
viscounts, earls.
Great officer, vis. Lord Chainberlata of tkt
household.
Marquisses, dukes.
Great officers, lord privy seal, lord presides!
of the council.
Then tour more Serjeants at arms, bssrisg
their maces.
After them, the gentleman caiiyiug the great
seal.
Then one of his majesty^s gentlemen ushers,
daily waiters, carrying the white wand; Garter
principal king of arms, going on his right band.
Then the Lord High Steward alone, bating
his train borne; and after him bis highoeit
Rupert duke of Cumberland, a prince of tee
blood.
This done, and the whole House of Peen
having taken their places according to their do*
greea, the Commons being also seated on each
side, and the managers in tbe room* appointed
for them ; the Commons being all hare, tbt
Lord High Steward, after obeisance made to*
1297} STATE TRIALS, 3d Ciuelbs IL 1680.— Five Popish Lords.
[1298
"wards tbe state, took bis place upon the upper-
most wool-sack, and hereupon receiving the
"white wand from Garter and the gentleman
usher upon their knees, delivered it to the usher
of the black rod, who held it during the time of
sitting there. Having so done, nis lordship
•aid, Crier, make proclamation of silence. Then
the Crier, a Serjeant at arms, made proclama-
tion thus: All manner of persons are strait ly
commanded to keep 9iJence upon pain of im-
prisonment, God save the king.
Lord High Steward. Make proclamation for
tbe lieutenant of the Tower to bring the
.prisoner to the bar.
Crier. O jes ! O yes ! O yes ! Lieutenant of
the Tower of London, bring forth thy prisoner
William viscount Stafford, upon pain and peril
shall fall thereon. God save the king.
Whereupon the lieutenant of the Tower
brought the prisoner to the bar.
Usher of the Black Bad. My lord Stafford
most kneel; which be did.
i. JET. & Rise, my Ion).
Then he arose and stood at the bar, and the
Lord High Steward spake to him as followeth :
My lord viscount Stafford ; the Commons of
England assembled in parliament have im-
peached your lordship of High-Treason; and
you are brought this day to the bar to be tried
upon that impeachment: You are not tried
upon the indictment of treason found by the
grand jury, though there be that too in the
case; but you are prosecuted and pursued by
the loud and dreadful complaints of the Com-
mons ; and are to be tried upon the present-
ment which bath been made by the grand in-
quest of the whole nation.
In this so great and weighty cause, you are
to be judged by tbe whole body of the House
of Peers, the highest and the noblest court in
this, or perhaps in any oiher part of (he chris-
tian world.
Here you may be sore no false weights or
measures ever will or can be found : Here the
balance will be exactly kept, and all the grains
of allowancef which your case will bear, will
certainly be put into the scales.
But as it is impossible for my Lords to con-
demn the innocent, so it is equally impossible
that they should clear the guilty.
If therefore you have been agitated by a rest-
less zeal, to promote that which you call the
Catholic cause ; if this zeal have engaged you
in such deep and black designs as you are
charged with, and this charge shall be fully
E roved, then you most expect to reap what you
ave sown*; for every work must and ought to
receive the wages that are due to it.
Hear therefore with patience what shall be
said against you, for you shall have full time
and scope to answer it; and when you come to
make your defence, you shall have a very fair
and equal hearing.
In the mean time the beat entrance upon this
service will be to begin with the reading of the
charge.
YOU TO.
L. If. S. My lord, if your lordship find your*
self infirm and unable to stand, vour lordship
may have a chair to ease yourself whilst your
charge is reading. And a chair was brought
accordingly, and his lordship &at thereon.
Clerk of the Parliament read the Charge.-**
[Which see at p. 1285.]
L. if. S. Gentlemen of the House of Com*
mons, be pleased to proceed.
Then Mr. Serj. Maynard, one of the Com-
mittee appointed to manage the Evidence, be-
gan as followeth :
My Lords;
May it please your Lordships ; by command
of the House of Commons, who have imposed
upon us this task, we are here to prosecute this
great charge against the prisoner, the lord at
the bar. My lords, there are two parts thai
are in this great charge ; there is a general,
which is the subversion of the whole nation,
the king himself to be murdered, the Protestant
religion to be suppressed, war to be introduced,
and those other things that are expressed in the
articles. This general is charged in particular
upon this lord ; and, my lords, it was in con*
sideration, how far it was fit to meddle with
this general at this particular trial : for if this
lord be guilty of such crimes, it will^prove well
enough that there was such a Plot. But, mj
lords, withal we did consider when the first dis-
covery of this Plot was made, how afterwards ,
it took cold, how rumours were raised against
it, how there were endeavours to suppress the
belief of it ; and therefore, my lords, we do
conceive that it is fit we should first settle that,
that there was a general Plot, a Plot of such a
nature as the articles express.
Some objections we thought there might be
raised, because it hath been so long in the
*rorld, some years now since tbe discovery of
it, some persons, that is, some ten or eleven,
prosecuted and attainted for it, and therefore
that might have been satisfaction enough that
such a Plot there wa&$ besides, that there have
been public declarations of the particulars of it
to the world. But being now to proceed be*
fore your lordships in a judicial way, we did
think fit, and we hope yoor lordships will ap»
prove of it, to spend some time in the proof of
the general Plot, which we hope will be to the
satisfaction of your lordships and the whole
world ; for we do not think that England only
looks into this day's trial, but the whole world
one way or other, the whole Christian worla
is concerned in it. My lords, after the publi-
cation of these things (which were not judicial)
how far your lordships will believe them, at
judges, we know not; we will prove it now, that
their policies and contrivances may be laid
open to the world. And first we offer it to
your lordships, because we have made it part
of the charge. And secondly, we shall do it,
because we think your lordships are not obliged
to believe things that are in print, till we prove
them by witnesses judicially before you. B*p
40
1299] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— Proceeding* against the [1300
the main reason why we do it, is, because we ( him. Another part of the design was, to des-
vtduM touch upon those endeavours that have j troy, irot this or that man that stood inUieif
way. hut the whole body of the Protestants here
in England ; not a murder, but a massacre and
a slaughter of all whosoever they were that
W""U *"«*••• »fU» »••««« ^..U^W.VW.- ««-- ..«.- .
been used to make this seem as if it were a
kind of State- Plot, 1 know not what to call it,
a chimera, an' Imagination, and not a real
thing. This they laboured many ways to effect,
but we shall prove that it is a very real and a
a very true one.
When that Gates first made a discovery, it
seems it had not that weight that we think now
it will clearly- have with your lordships; and
had not the murder of sir E. Godfrey followed
in the neck of it, the world as it was asleep,
would have lain so; but that awaked us.
My Lords, it fell out in this case, as it did in
another : When Cataline the traitor was a great
way off Rome, and four other lords with him,
Ca&sios, Cethegus, and others, 6vc in all; it
came to puss, that, as- the great orator that was
at that time said, * Many were so ignorant that
'they would not think it ; many were so unwise
4 they would Dot believe it; some so ill that
'■ they would not favour it ; and some so much
' worse that they did foster it ; but all of them
^in not believing it, gave, strength to the Con-
4 spiracy and' the Treason.* And so it did here,
for we look not upon ourselves as discharged
from the treason when discovered, but when
prevented.
My lords, another reason to induce us into
the proof of the main plot is this: we do not
look upon it as a particular offence, as if one lord
was only to be questioned, and appear before
your lordships judicially for it; he is indeed
only before you at this time to receive his trial,
and your judgment; but, my lords, This is a
treason of a faction, and of a general party in
the nation ; it is not this or that loid, but a
great number : it is not this or that lord that is
mentioned in the Articles, but the Conspiracy
is of a great faction'. This do we think, and
this -makes us so earnest to press the general'
before 'your lordships, that we may give satis-
faction to your lordships and the world what this
Plot hath been, and how- carried on every
where.
My lords, the consequence of that is very
great: for, my lords, if there were a general
design, and a general plot, as clearly there was,
tome were to act in Spain, and some in France,
some in olher places, some in Ireland, Scotland,
and England, and a great a number of Jesuits
(we have a matter of thirty in chase about this
business ;) I say, my lords,'if it be so, if one
action be in one place, and another in ano-
ther ; ' yet if there be a common consent
to accomplish this Plot, then what the one does
is the act of all and the act of all is the act of
every one.
My lords, the persons were many, and the
plates and times many they acted in, and the
desiuns which they were to accomplish, and the
means wherewith they were to accomplish them
were many too. Great and wicked were their
designs, to destroy our king, to take him out
of the world; and why? Upon hopes of better
came near them, and none were to escape ; for
if any meant to flee, they would be sore to cut
them off: nay, not only to destroy our king,
though that be the greatest offence that oar
law can take hold of9 but to destroy our re-
ligion, and to destroy us because of our reli-
gion. -
To accomplish this, that we may open the
generals of it, arms were to be provided, men
to be raised, an army was formed in effect;
and who to lead, and who to command, and
who to pay. But, my lords, not only were arms
to be had here among ourselves, but a French
aid must be fetched in ; assistance from France
must come too : intelligences and letters are
written, and correspondencies had, and aids
promised by the ministers from thence.
My lords, It is a strange thing that English-
men should contrive to have an invasion of
strangers upon their own country ; and surely
they are the worst bigots in the world that were
so zealous to destroy their own nation : and
they were not wise sure to think, that if the
French did come in, they should continue great
lords or great men ; and yet thus it was in ge-
neral. It is very strange that it should enter
into the -heart of any man to destroy *o many
persons. But, my lordsyif we look epon what
did encourage them, and what con finned them
in this design, and what they have published to
the world about their religion," we shaft not
wonder at it; since they tell us it is (awful to
kill a heretic king, and the king of England is
an heretic, they say, and so declared, so that
whosoever Would kill him did a lawful and pious
piece of service to God : nay, not only so, but
a meritorious and glorious one too, for which
they may he canonized for saints.
My lords, We find it is no new thing : look
into all the nations where the pope hath any
power or possibility . of hope to gain a power,
nothing hath been able to stand in their way,
but they have broken through all the bonds of
nature, and other obligations to attain their
ends. Look into Spain, king Philip t here re-
moved his own* son, by what means the story
tells us ; he wni heir apparent, but he was a
Protestant; and there also the father puts fire
to his own daughter, because she was a Pro-
testant ; there a Spaniard goes from Spain into
Germany to murder, and did murder his brother
for no other cause but because he was a Pro-
tectant. Leave Spain and go into France;
what massacres have been committed there
under the colour of a marriage in queen Eliza-
beth's time ! And before that, how many hun-
dred Albigenses and Waldenses hare been put
to the sword for Religion ! Come we to our own
country, and look into England, what hath been
done here, when queen Elizabeth bad a succes-
sor of another religion, howTnany attempts were
times to them under him that should succeed there roada upon her person to bring that so
1301] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL 1680.— Five Popish Lords.
[I30S
cessor in ! When king James came to the crown
let us remember the Gunpowder-Treason,*
wherein all the nation was to be destroyed ;
King, Lords, and Commons together, and in
parliament assembled, were then to be a sa-
crifice, a burnt offering, though they might
call it a peace offering; for these gentlemen are
lor sacrifices of blood as peace offerings, to re-
concile, us to the pope. If this be made out, we
think, their principles having produced these
traits in other ages, we may believe they would
do so now.
What has been said as history of former
times, is not offered as evidence nf fact to the
present case, but induces a probability that
what bath been done by such persons may be
done by them again. But, my Lords, we shall
make it clear, and bring it home to this lord,
that he bath had hi* head, his, tongue, hi* hand,
his heart, and his purse in this, damnable and
horrible contrivance and treason for the des-
troying of the king, the government, our reli-
gion and our nation. We shall bring it home
to him ; but my part is only to open the general
conspiracy : and indeed, my lords, it is an hea-
vy burden on my aged shoulders, considering
that .the winter of in hr inky and age is growing
so fast upon me. '
My lords, The particulars concerning this
noble lord, because the credit of it rests on
the testimony only, of one man, viz. Mr.
Gates, whose testimony being taken by sir E.
Godfrey, Justice of Peace, and kept in writing
by him, then sir E. Godfrey was way laid, and
murdered by men of the popish religion, thereby
to suppress the Examination that he had taken.
This startled and opened the eyes of the world
to look about us for farther discovery, lest we
should be led as * Oxen to the slaughter, not
knowing whither we went/ Afterward it
pleased God lo bring some of their religion and J
party to make further discovery : whereupon
several Jesuits, guilty of the Plot, were there-
fore prosecuted aud brought to judgment and
death.
After the murder of Godfrey, several fables
were spread abroad, as if lie were alive and
married, as was declared to several lords : others
of the party reported he had murdered himself;
but his body being found, it was hard for the
party to inventor tell, whether he first strangled
himself, and then run himself through, or first
run himself through, and then strangled himself:
that was a dilemma .to disprove their fables
touching Godfrey's murder.
It then fell out, that Mr. Bed low came as
a second discoverer, whose testimony concurred
with Oates ; and then there being two witnesses,
as is necessary in case of treason, the de-
sign was to take off Bed low, that there should
remain but one, a single witness : in order to
which, Reading f tempts Bediow with rewards
to lessen his former testimony, and qualifies that
which he had deposed positively was but mat-
. ■ ■ i ■ i ■ ■ ■ i ■ .
* See vol. 3, p. 159, 317, of this Collection.
f See p. 359, of t bis volume.
ter of hearsay ; for which Reading, the instru-
ment in that design and attempt, was indicted
and convicted by three witnesses, and suffered
according.
But then this attempt upon Bediow failing, the
next attempt was to take off Gates's testimony
by charging him with an infamous offence : foe
which purpose one Knox is employed, who
suborns Lane and Osborn, and they swore it
against Oates ; but on re-ex* mi nation confess
the subornation and falsbood of their design
and Knox and Lane are therefore indicted nnd
found Guilty. — Thus, when the treason was
discovered, the murder of an othcer of justice is
made the means to hide it; aud then taUe anil
infamous stories, set on foot of that officer to
hide that murder, and perjury and subornation
the means to blast the discoverers. — Tliese
wicked and ill practices we take .to he a second
proof of the Plot, both in general nnd particular*
the records of which convictions are here before
your lordships ready to be proved : for, cui bonot
none would do such wicked pracices; but to hide
a grejit<T sin ; and worse desigus if possible will
be opened, and proved by one to \>hom (hut is
particularly appointed.
My lords, We speak this that the world may
receive satisfaction ; we will let our Evidence
be all open and public in the face of the sun,
and shew, we go not about by private suborna-
tions, though there are endeavours fo encounter
us by such. •
My lords, if we make out these things, here
is matter enough for the satisfaction of the
world, as to the general contrivance. But my
lords, as you sit here as judges of this lord, the
prisoner at the bar, we must bring ic down to
particular persons, and we shall do it even to
him, that those things which wete mentioned in
general were his contrivance, at least wise, as a
man highly, deeply guilty of conspiring the
king's death ; and in order to that, of raising
an army, and the other things that have been
opened.
My lords, I beseech you to pardon me, if
I have troubled you too long : the particulars
are many, I have had little help to prepare it
from any body but myself: but I submit myself
to your lordships, and hope that what is wanting
in me, will be supplied by oihers that follow j „
and I also hope you will find no defect in our
evidence at all, whatsoever may have been in
the opening of it.
Then Sir FrancU Winnington, another of
the Committee appointed for the management
of the Evidence, spoke as foiluweih :
My Lords,
I shall begin where Mr. Serjeant Maynard
ended, and confine myself to this case, as it
stands before you, and to open the particular
evidence relating to the lord, the now prisoner
at the bar.
My lords, I look upon the cause of this day
to be the cause of the Protectant Religion; and
I doubt not but that Plot, which has alarmed all
Christendom, will be so cjearly made out in this
1503] STATE TRIALS, 62 Charles II. ISM.— Proceeding* ag*mut ike £U9i
trial, that the most malicious of our enemies
will henceforth want confidence to deny it.
That the religion of the papists does coun-
tenance and encourage the murdering of princes,
the massacring of such as they mis-call here-
tics, and the commuting of all sorts of impiety
in order to promote their superstition! and ido-
latries, has been mentioned by the gentleman
who spoke before me ; and I should mispend
time to say inbre of a truth so well known, in
so great and so learned a presence : I will
therefore directly apply myself to the business
of (he day, to represent to your lordships our
evidence of the Plot in general, and of the
guilt of this lord at the bar in particular.
In order to which, I shall crave year lord-
ships leave that I may use this method. 1. To
shew what advantageous opportunities the Pa-
pists had to enter into, and undertake this great
and detestable Conspiracy. 9. To prove the
reality of the Plot in renera^ which I look upon
as a very easy undertaking. 9. To state the
particular Evidence against the prisoner at the
bar, by which he will appear to have been one
of the principal conspirators in this horrid de-
sign to murder our sovereign, (whom God pre-
serve) to extirpate the Protestant Religion, and
to subvert totally the govemment and funda-
mental laws of this kingdom.
My lords, to shew what extraordinary advan-
tages the papists bad to enter upon this con-
spiracy, will very naturally lead us into our proof
of it ; and therefore I shall speak somewhat to
that in the first place. It is not unknown to your
lordships, or to any others who have in the least
degree enquired into affairs, that his majesty has
heen so unhappy as that (unawares to him) some
ministers, who have been papists at the bottom
and others that have drove on their interest
have crept into his councils, and thereby gave
great opportunities to advance popery. It is
most true, that as soon as these ill ministers
were detected, and their ill designs discovered,
his majesty did discharge them : but to the mis-
fortune of the king and his people, as ill men
have been recommended to succeed them, and
came into their -places.
In the next place, my lords, there did appear
in some men too easy and favourable a aispo*
sition towards the papists. They were grown
strangely moderate towards these old enemies
of our church and state. New projects of re-
conciling us were set on foot, and books were
written to distinguish the Church of Rome
from the Court of Rome. One of those books,
which was printed in the year before the dis-
covery of the Plot, pretends, that there might
to be a difference made between papists of
loyal and disloyal principles, This book, as it
was written more artificially than the vest, and
published in so critical and dangerous a June-
tare, deserves, and I doubt not in time will
have, a particular consideration. It is easy to
helieve how great encouragement this must give
to tlie Romanists, to see bow very witting men
were to meet them, and Ik>w freely the pen was
drawn in their feveem.
Another great encouragement, my Isram,
which the papists had, was, That by the means
of those ministers who were secretly of* their
faction, whensoever his majesty was pleased as
command the laws made against them in the
reign of queen Elisabeth and king James to he
put in due execution, hjs good intentions were
frustrated, and the severity of those laws was
turned upon the Proiestant dissenters. This
was a master- piece of Rome, not only to divest
from themselves the edge of those laws which
were designed against them, but to turn them
upon the Protestants, and to make them aerial
to advance the Romish interest t and when
they had thus divided and distracted as, then
was the fairest time for them to attempt to de-
stroy us utterly, and to make sharp their wea-
pons in order to a massacre.
But, my lords, that which gave the pnpisls
the greatest encouragement to enter into this
detestable conspiracy, was, that they had (so
the great un happiness of this kingdom, and the
Protestant religion) the expectation and hopes
of a popish successor. This was an opportu-
nity not to he lost. They had abundant
rience of his majesty's firmness in the Prou
tant religion, both during his exile, and an
his hsppy Restoration, and bow resolutely he
hail kept that promise which he made in his
Letter from Breda, That neither the un kindness
of some Protestants, nor the civilities of
papists, should in the lea»t decree startle
or make him swerve from his religion.
They therefore coald have no hopes of ar*
riving at their point, the re- establishment of
their Church, whilst the king lived ; and it was
too great a hazard to expect his majesty's death
by the course of nature: and therefore, lite
true papists, that would stick at no wickedness
to accomplish their designs, they threw off nl
bonds of loyalty and ahVgianee, and rreotmed
to destroy our sovereign, whose hfe was the
only obstacle in their way. This was the last
and most* wicked part of their Plot, which,
though it consisted of very many parts, yet this
was the principal; and our Evidence against
the lord at the bar will chiefty ran to this>part
of the design.
I have only mentioned some of those eaeoe*
ragements which the world plainly saw the
papists had, before the Plot was detected : hot
since the discovery, it has been abundantly
proved, that it had been carrying on for many
years, and th%t so universally, that it is a wen*
derfol thing it appeared no sooner.
My lords, t come now to onr Rvideeee :
and though it may seem unnecessary to prove
to your lordships a general Plot of the papists,
who are so well satisfied of it already, and
have more than once declared so to the world ;
yet because it is the most natural method U*
as, first to prove that there was a conspiracy,
before we attempt to y rove this lord to have
been one of the eonspirators, we shaH beg
your leave as to that particular. And as we
shall be careful not to take op too much of
your time, so we wtU know yew Ifldshins
1
1365] STATE TRIALS, %Q Charles IL ifisa— FA* Popkk h*4$. [1808
will allow as ail the time iteaessary to give our
evidence.
We have many records, things reduced to
judgment, whereby the Plot is moat undoubt-
edly proved, and which are legal evidences
More your lordships : the attainders of several
Jesuits and priests, the attainder of Langhorn
and of Coleman, whom I should have named
in the first plane. We have also the convic-
tion of those that were prosecuted for the
murder of sir E. Godfrey ; and there is a con-
viction, though not fur the murder, yet for
catting the throat of Mr. Arnold. It is true
he n not dead, yet as to the public, I count
hmi murdered by the papists, though he .be
•Jive in the world. My lords, we have con fic-
tions not only of treason*, murders, nnd cutting
of throats, but of almost all other villainies
whatsoever : as of attempts ra suborn wit-
tresses, nnd to scandalize the king's evidence ;
and to that We shall province the records con-
cerning Reading's attempt npon Beillow ; that
eoticrruiug the suborning (it* Knox ami Lane to
swear bug^ry agatntt Dr. Oates; and the
conviction of iashorough and Price to corrupt
Dagriaie, a principal witness as to thi* Plot.
I only mention these particulars, my lords ;
and certainly an you are a great Court of*
Record, you will take notice of them. It
would he a hard thing, perhaps, to spend the
time in reading all, since nil of them are made
known to the world already ; but we shall in
the vot\r*e of our evidence produce them, and
you muy read such of them as you please. All
the use we make of them, is for the proof of the
general Plot, which is requisite to be done ; for
it will be hard to lielieve the prisoner guilty of
tile Plot, if there was no such Plot at alL
My lords, we shall make appear to you
things which have not yet been brought aito"
jadgmrm. In the year 1676, we shall pr«>ve by
a witness that was then abroad, and discounted
with Andert<*n, Champion, Green, and several
other priests and Jesuits, that they did acquaint
htm that there would be great alteration in
England ere tang ; that the king was a heretic,
and excommunicated, and might be destroyed ;
and this doctrine they continually and indus-
triously preached. And they further said, if
•nee the king were removed (who alone stood
in the way), their religion must needs flourish ;
for i his reason, as the witnesses will speak, that
the duke of York was on their side.
My lords, We shall prove, that they had in
England men no less industrious among them,
some whereof have been executed : Gavan by
name, who made it his business to go up and
down in several counties of this kingdom, to
?rove by Scripture, councils, aad examples,
'bat it was a lawful undertaking to kill his
majesty. These things I name, as necessary
in order to introduce our particular evidence ;
I am unwilling to dwell longer upon this poiot
af the general Plot. I shall produce the Re-
cords, and produce oar several Witnesses, Mr.
Oates and others, that will give yon a f«Jl aad
jpjssa sjcaoant ©J it
My lords, Having done with the general
Plot, I come bow to open the particular Evi*
dance against my lord the prisoner at the bar.
As to him, my lords, our evidence standi ' not
upon conjectures, or upon mere probability,
because this lord is (as we well know) a zealous
papist, and hath owned himself so ; but wa
have express particular proofs against bis
person. My lords, we have one witness to
produce to ypur lordships, who will prove, that
m September 16T8, there was a consult of
some priests and other conspirators, at Tixal
in Staffordshire, my lord Aston9* house, for
killing of the king, where my lord Stafford was
present. And by a discourse in the same
month, we shall prove what* reason this lord
did give, why he and their party undertook the
murdering of the king ; because, lie said, that
he aad many Catholic families had no recant*
pence for their loyalty ; hut if any thing ft II,
it was d'sposed of to rebels and traitors. This
lie resented deeply ; but above all, the obli-
gation of his conscience, and of his religion,
persuaded him to do it, and confirmed him in
hit reu)tution to go on in this horrid design.
My l»rds, We will go further, and prove,
that this lord offered 500/. out of his own purse
to carry on the Plot, and particularly this part
of it, for killing the king. We shall produce to
your lordships a witness to whom he made
this offer, as looking upon him to be a faithful
man, and having received so great a character
of him from one Evers a priest, that he thought
he might safely communicate the matter to
him; and the argument be urged to persuade
the witness, besides the 500/. which he said
upon his application so Harcourt and Ireland
they should pay him, was this, That others as
well as he were employed in the same design $
that it was f he only way to establish the Romish
religion in England ; that he would lay an ever-
lasting obligation upon all the persons of that
persuasion, and that he should not only have
his pardon, but be canonised for it.
My lords, This is the substance of the tss*
timony of the first witness which we shall pro-
duce against inv lord Stafford ; and that is so
express, as I think it can hardly be answered.
My lords, Our next witness says thus (for |
shall but open the substance of what they say) i
in June or July, .1678, there were several
letters from this lord at the bar to the Jesuits
in Londoo, in which his lordship did declare
his readiness to serve them in their great dav
Z: and in June (1678) the latter end of the
ith, my lord Stafford came to Mr. Fenwiek's
chamber in Drory-Laoe(he went not then h/
the name of ray lord Stafford, but bv the name
of Mr. Howard of Effingham), and there ha
did receive a commission from Fenwick to be
paymaster-general of the army which was to ba
raised for the carrying on the plot, iiis lord-
ship told them hie was then going into the
country, but be hoped be should soon hear
from them, that they bad done the business, at
least that it would be done before bis lordship
did return. To anion Fenwiek made aa*
t
1307] STATE TRIALS, 32 CuAaLEs II. 1G80.— Proceeding* against ihe [1308
Tour lordship roost look after the business as
welt as other persons ; and there will be need
of some to countenance it in town: thereupon
the lord, the prisoner at the bar, said, That
they had been often deceived by this prince,
and been patient with him, but they would
hear no longer, but were now resolved to t\o
the work without delay, for their patience was
worn-out. Several other particular circum-
stances the witness will acquaint your lordships
withal, which 1 snail not take up your time
with.
My lords, We have a third witness as con-
siderable and particular as any of the rest, one
that lived three years in the lady Powis's
house, had his education there, and was per-
suaded by that lady, and by one Morgan a
Jesuit, to become a friar, and to that end was
sept to Do way ; but not liking to continue at
Doway (he will teU you the reason why) he es-
caped to France, and at- Paris came to his
brother a Benedictine monk there, who advised
him to go for England. But whilst he staid at
Paris, this gentleman, by the means of his bro-
ther and other priests, grew into a i;reat fami-
liarity with my lord Stafford, who was then in
France, and who at last came to have such a
great confidence in him, that his lordship could
not hold, but told hint,, that though he had dis-
obliged all his friends by going away from
Doway, yet he had something to propose to
him, which would be a means to reconcile him
to his friends, and bring him into preferment,
and into the friendship of all good Catholics,
whom he would oblige by it. The gentleman
was willing to embrace so happy an opportu-
nity, ond desired to know what it was couid
procure him so great a go"d. My lord Stafford,
the prisoner at the bar, told him, It was a thing
of very great importance; and after having
required from him all possible obligations of
secrecy, he told him plainly what great
benefits would accrue to himself, and what ad-
vantage to the Catholic cause, if he would
make himself and the nation happy, by under-
taking to kill the king of England, who was an
heretic, and consequently a rebel to God Al-
mighty. My lord Stafford did believe the wit-
ness did embrace this proposal warmly, and
therefore directed him to prepare to go for
England, and to go before-hand from Paris to
Diep, where he would meet him, and go over
with him. But it seems my lord Stafford met
with some diversion, for he did not keep his
word with him in coming; and so this gentle-
man being; disappointed, went over without
him : but fearing to be called upon to the same
service, he returned back again suddenly, and
went into the French army.
My lords, we shall produce these witnesses
against the lord at the bar; and when they
have proved to your lordships what I have
opened, any one who was not acquainted with
the Popish party, would believe they would be
at a loss how to acquit themselves from this
charge. All manner of foul and indirect prac-
tices have been used by them to terrify, to cor*
nipt, and to scandalize our witnesses; all
manner of objections have been made to our
evidence. If ihe witness does not come up to
speak directly to every point, we are told, l*e
says nothing at all ; if he speaks directly, ibey
cry, he is not to be believed. Thus they have
a ready answer to every witness that has been
or ever shall be produced, either that he says
nothing materia), or that nothing that lie says*
ought to have any credit.
But we doubt not by this trial before yocr
lordships, if we cannot stop their mouths, at
least to convince all the world besides of the
reality of this plot. — It will be no wonder if
their confidence goes on still to frame cavils .
they are used to scandalize the government, and
they cannot give it over. How often has his
majesty uuder his great seal published and de-.
clared this conspiracy ! How often has he
pressed his parliaments to go on to bring the
conspirators to punishment! And at the open-
ing of tins very parliament he says plainly,
That he does not believe himself sate from
their designs. Your lordships also have voted
the unquestionable truth of the Plot, and sn
have the Commons ; yet these men are so hardy
as still id deny the plainest truth, so confirmed
as this hath been.
Nay, my lords, their. malice goes yet farther,
for they have been so bold as to whisper op
and down, and industriously to spread reports,
before the Trial, as if this lord at the bar, and
the rest who are impeached, should certainly
be acquitted. We do hope to be able to de-
tect the authors of this great scandal ; and the
Commons doubt not of your lordships concur-
rence to assist them in bringing them to their
deserved punishment. This is sure the fifst
time that ever any sort of men presumed to
reflect upon the justice of this high and noble
court. Your ancestors, my lords, did by their
honour, courage and justice, preserve our an-
cestors ; the advantages of which, we, who are
descended from them, do now enjoy ; and we
shall never have occasion to doubt in the least,
but that your lordships will tread in their steps.
You have in your hands a great opportunity lo
make your zeal (>r truth and for the Protestant
religion famous to posterity. No artifice or
malice can create the least jealousy in usy that
ever your lordships sliould shew any partiality
or injustice to the Commons of England. To
your judgment this cause -is submitted; and
when we have your judgment, we doubt not
but we shall drive Popery out of this English
world. My lords, we shall go on to the proof
of our cause ; and I hope this will be a happy
day to us and the whole Protestant interest.
Then Mr. Trcby, also one of the committee
appointed for the management of the Evidence,
spoke as followeth :
My lords ; These two learned gentlemen
have fully discharged their province. I shall
proceed to call our witnesses to give their tes-
timony. But before we produce them your
lordships will be pleased to take notice, that oar
1309]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles 11. 1680 .— jfce Popish Lord*.
[1310
Evidence will consist of two parts, general and
particular ; the general, to shew the universal
conspiracy; the particular, to shew what spe-
cial part this noble lord, the prisoner at the bar
had in it. And though in the first part my lord
Stafford may not be particularly named, yet
that Evidence will he pertinent and proper for
us to pive in this trial of my lord Stafford ;
for we charge him not with the private treason,
wherein he with his immediate accomplices only
might be concerned, but it is a treason of the
Popish faction, or at least the principal and
active Papists.
■ We lay it in our Articles of Impeachment,
That there was an execrable Plot contrived and
carried on by Papists, and that the conspira-
tors acted in divers parts, and in divers places,
beyond sea, as well as here. It was a treason
that did bestride two lands : England indeed
was the thing aimed at; the destruction of the
religion, government, and liberty of England,
T*as the end; but the means and instruments
■were not collected here only, but part of them
were to be brought in from abroad. This is an ^
entcrprize too extensive to be entirely managed
by a single nobleman: and though we look
upon my lord Stafford as a great malt-factor,
?et we cannot think him so great a man, as to
be able within his own sphere to compass this
whole design. Should we not take this course
of evidence, first to prove the general plot, it
mi^htbe a great and just objection in my lord's
mouth to say, "You charge' me with a design
of subverting the kingdom, how is that possible
to be undertaken by me, and those I have had
opportunity to converse and confederate with?
A mighty par}: of the Catholic world had need
to be engaged for such a purpose.11 '
My lords, If this would be a material ob-
jection from this lord, then will it be requisite
for us to obviate and prevent this objection, by
shewing; first, that there was such a grand and
universal design of Papists, in which this lord
was to co-operate for his distinct share; though,
perhaps, when we descend to' our particular
Evidence, it will appear, that* his part hath
been great, and managed with malice as great
as any.
My lords, We shall begin with a witness, a
gentleman whose education has given him the
opportunity of knowing the inside of their af-
fairs ; and we presume he will give you a satis-
factory account: bis name is Mr. John Smith.
L. II. Slezcard. What do you call him to,
gentlemen ?
Mr. Tfebt/. To the general plot, my lords.
Lord Stafford. May it please your lordships,
I know not who he is, nor his name ; I humbly
beseech your lordships, that this witness, who-
ever he be, and all the rest that have any thing
to witness against me, may look upon me face
"to face, according to the words of the statute.
I humbly beseech your lordships to grant me
this, which I take to be according to law ; and
that each may give his evidence alone, and
that both against me, and for me, one may not
know what the othnr says.
X. H. S. My lord, you shall have all ttoeC
fair proceedings that can be.
L. Staff. The law says, my accusers must?
look me face to face. I desire to have the>
words read.
L. H. S. Your lordship may see him where*
he stands up.
Then Mr. Smith turned, and looked upon my
lord Stafford.
L. Staff. I do see him, but I do not know*
him.
L. H. S. Swear him.
Clerk. The evidence that you shall give in the
trial of William Viscount Stafford, shall be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing' but the
truth ; so help you God, and the contents of thig
book.
L. H. S. Your lordship observes he is not
brought as a particular witness against your
lordship, but to prove the general riesigu of
your party.
L. Staff'. Tis still concerning me. ! *
L. H. S. Look upon my lord Stafford (which
he did),- and now tell your evidence.
Mr. TWty.-This is Mr. Smith, my lords.
And that which we would examine this wit-
ness to, is, the general design of the plot ; what
knowledge he hath had of it here or beyond
sea ; the gentleman is able to understand the
general question.
Mr. Smith. My Lords, I remember very
well when I went first into France, I came ac-
quainted with Abbot Montague, Father Gfts-*
coigne, and several other Popish Priests and
Jesuits, who often discoursed with me, and tolii
me, if I would make myself a Catholic, I should
have an employment amongst them there, and
afterwards in England; for they did not doubt
but the popish religion would come in very
soon. Upon which I asked his lordihip .the
Abbot one day, what reason he had to believe
it? He told me two reasons : 1. that they did '
not doubt but to procure a toleration of rein
gion, by which they should bring it in without
noise ; and, 2. that the gentry that went abroad
did observe the novelty of their own religion,
and the antiquity of theirs, and the advantages
that' were to be had by it. These reasons Ab-
bot Montague gave me. -There was one Father
Bennet and others that told me, the chief rea*
son was, their party was very strong in England-,
and in a few years they would bring it in, right
or wrong. All this would not prevail upon me
to turn papist, and I lived among them several
years. At last I had a design to go' to Rome;
and as I went I had a des-icn to go to Provence
(and so into Italy), where there was- one. car-
dinal Grimaldi coming through the town, and
the Jesuits havi.jg a great school there, I was
•curious to go to the school, and they were very
desirous I should tarry for some time in the
town: I did, and they made much of me, and
told me much to the same substance, what as-
surances they had of their religion coming into
England. At last they had a desire I should
discourse with the Cardinal; whfch I did ; *and
he made much of me, and he it was that pen*
1311} STATE TRIALS, 38 Cha&les II. 1680*— Proceedings against it* [ISIS
verted me to the Romiih religion. Upon this,
the Cardinal shewed me a pair of hangings chat
were in his house, which he said did belong to
eke Qneeo-inotber, and were bought in Paris ;
and he told me be was acquainted with many
of the nobility in England, and that he had
great assurance the popish religion would pre-
vail ; and he told me there was but one in the
way, and though that man was a good-natured
man, yet they could not so far prevail upon
bint, but that to accomplish thtir designs tney
must take him out of the way. But at la»t I
left this plaee, and went to Rome, where I lived
tome years in the English Jesuits' college there:
•ad when I had lived there five years, I came
to be prefect of several rooms there, which are
the scholars lodgings and places of study. I
have heard it there often disputed in their own
college, both preached and privately eihorted,
that the king of England was an heretic, and
that there was no king really reigning, and who-
ever took him out of the way would do a meri-
torious action.9
L. H. S. Who was that that said so t
Mr. Trcby, Name the persons.
Mr. Smith. Father Anderton ; Rector of the
college, who was a very good scholar ; Father
Mumford, and one Father Campion; but
chiefly one Father Southwell, one of the chief
of the Jesuits. And 1 doubting of the truth of
that opinion, they did shew me several of their
bonks there, and directed me to some passages
of Mariana, Vasquez, and BeUarmine, which I
have since published to the world, wherein
they did assert it as a true doctrine, and as
Christian doctrine, what tlie Fathers told me ;
and this was never condemned at Rome. Be*
sides, my lords, when I was coming from Rome,
*ith uiv faculty and license signed by Cardinal
ftarberino, who generally conducts, or causes
so be conducted, all papists to take their leave
of the pope ; and before we came away (for
there were five or sis. of us together) for a whole
month these Fathers were exhorting of us, That
we were not obliged to obey the king of Eng-
land, and that in all private confessions we
were to instruct all persons that we thought
were capable of any design, that they should
use all their endeavours for promoting the po-
pish religion. 1, coming into England,, made
my application to Dr. Perrot, who belonged to
the Portugal ambassador, and was chief of the
popish clergy in England. I was kept there
some months to say mass in bis chapel; and
afterwards I was sent into the North, where
there were abundance of Jesuits and Friars, to
one Mr. Jenisoo's house; where knowing the
principles of these people, I made it my busi-
ness to rout tliese Jesuits away, especially out
of Mr. Jonisoa's house, who had a kinsman of
bis own that was a Jesuit, and used to serve
him in bis bouse, and great complaint was made
• As to the admission of this sort of Evi-
dence, see the Trials of Hardy, of Horne Tooke,
and of Thelwall, a.d. ifftft ; and of Stone,
4, P. 1?9S, iyro.
against me; and there wee one Mr. Snath,
otherwise Serjeant, in the North, who gave oe
intimation of it, and to whom I wrote to ssraff
him and the clergy of the grounds and reason*
why I routed them away ; which, if he be it
England now, he can justify. Upon this, I re*
ceived a smart letter, as a kind of reprimand far
my doing so ; and he told me, that though they
did agree with me in doctrine, yet they wodd
eodeavour what they could to bring in the po-
pish religion, and taxed me sharply fpr appear-
ing against it. I told him bow the Jesuits per-
verted the duke of York ; and that by teat
means they would be the chief men in England,
though there were none of their order till queen
Elizabeth's time. Besides, my lords, in Boom
I saw Coleman's Letters, and read them once
a month, as I believe ; wherein he gave as in-
telligence of several passages that happened in
court ; how the duke, and the queen, and tat
chief of the nobility were of their side; bov
they carried matters several times ; the esji
my lord Clifford did use, and sir Win. Godot-
phin, to effect the work ; nod that they did ost
2uestion but they should get mv lord-treusrer
>anby on their side too. This was in Cole-
man's Letters; and he had so much allowance
for bis intelligence. These letters of his I real
several times hi the college. My lords, •far-
wards, when I came from Rome, I saw anhnt
Montague again, and be said be was verj ejbni
to see me, and that I was a priest. Well, net,
said I, what am I the better? Where » the
employment you promised me when I sbookl
come into England ? He told me I should bsit
it very soon, and he was glad that 1 hnd not
made myself a Jesuit; and he recommeodei
me to Dr. Goffe, Confessor to the Queen-
mother, who said he would do any thing in the
world for me, and he did not doubt bat be
should get a preferment for me; which Dr.
Goffe is now living. Truly when I came into
England, I found all the popish clergy of Eaf
land, that I discoursed with, of the same op*
nion, that they did not doubt but the Ronnh
religion would soon come in. And btSJde*, it
the North there was gathering of mooej, in
which I was ordered to be one of the chief
men ; but I was against it. 1 told them I
would do nothing in it ; I thought it was illegal
to send any money beyond sea : they told me
it was charity, only to repair the college st
Doway. I told, them it was strange that there
should be so much money raised only to re-
pair one college, which would nerve three or
four colleges ; and I persuaded Mr. JeoisoD,
and all other person* 1 had to do witb, not te
meddle with it. As to this raising of the o»oory#
I conceive it may be inferred, it was for soise
other private business, and I believe was for
the carrying on the design. As for the gentle*
man at the bar, my lord Stafford, 1 know no-
thing of my own particular knowledge, hat
only this : There wan one Thomas Smith, tf
Edward Smith's brother, that lived at a plaet
not far off the place where 1 lived, who *u
one that contributed in paying the money that
1313] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1080.— Fn* Popish Lords.
[1314
was then collecting : He was the man that writ
a letter up to my lord Stafford, to complain of
'two or three justices of the peace that were
active again -t popery ; upon which there was
one that was turned out, that I think is now of
the honourable House of Commons—
Mr. Treby. Name him.
Mr. Smith. Sir Henry Calverly. The other
was not turned out. So I asked Smith, when
I was lately in the country, about it ; for I
heard a rumour, that there was a letter of this
3Mr. Smith's found in my lord Stafford's cham-
ber, and I was told it by a -parliament-man,
one colonel Tempest. So, said I to him, now
you will be concerned in the Plot. No, said
he, I care not for that letter, it will signify no-
thing : for my lord won't keep by him any
thing of any moment. I asked him what he
knew about my lord. He told me he writ ano-
ther letter to my lord, to know whether he would
make a conveyance of his estate away, and whe-
ther he apprehended they were in danger : and
he told me his lordship's answer was, That se-
veral did so, but he would not; fur he expected
some sudden change or alteration. I asked
him what change or alteration he understood
by it. Sir, said he, what can be understood by
it, but an alteration of the government and re-
ligion ? I am sure, said he, my lord is so wise
a man, that he would not write so without some
ground. This is all I can say to the gentleman
at the bar; and tins is true, by the oath I have
taken.
Mr. Treby. My lords, I observe Mr. Smith
in the beginning of his testimony (speaking of
the discourse he had at Home) said, they told
him there was one in the way ; I presume it is
not uneasy to conjecture who was that one.
X. H. S. It was surely the king.
Mr. Treby. But we would rather have it ex-
plained by himself.
Smith, Father Anderton and Father South-
well did say that the king was a good man, but
he was not for their turn, and be was the only
man that stood in the way.
Mr. Treby. Did they name the king?
Mr. Smith. Yes, it was the common discourse
all over the country.
Mr. Treby. My lords, I desire Mr. Smith in
the next place may give an account of the me-
thods they were to use to accomplish this de-
sign, the firing of the city, and the rest.
Mr. Smith. As to the burning of London I,
heard nothing beyon# seas at all but this ; it
was discoursed that the papists did it, and the
Jike, but they denied it, and they said it came
accidentally in a baker's house : but this I have
often heard them say, that it was no great mat-
ter if it had been all burnt.
X. H. S. Will you ask him any more ques-
tions yet?
Mr. Trtby. No, we have done with him.
X. H. S. Have you concluded your evidence,
sir ? "
Mr. Smith. Yes.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, will your lordship
ask him any questions ?
VOL. VII.
X. Stafford. I desire to know how long ago
it was, my lord, since he was made a priest.
Sir F. Win. My lords, with your lordships
leave, no man is bound to answer a question
whereby he shall acense himself; therefore
under favour the question is somewhat harsh,
and we demand your judgment in it.
X. H. S. What a the question your lordship
would have asked him ?
X. Staff. I will not ask it, since it is an of-
fence ; but did not he say he said mass? Pray
how long ago was that ?
X. If. S. I will ask him a question. Are not
you a Protestant ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, my rorti.
X. H. S. How long have you been so ?
Mr. Smith. I have been a Protestant near
upon two years.
X. H. S. How long ago before were you per-
verted ?
Mr. Smith. Some six or seven years.
X. If. S. That is nine years. That was, I
suppose, about 1671.
Mr. Smith. I was always bred a Protestant,
and was so abroad till I went towards Rome.
X. B. S. It is not criminal to have been a
priest, if he have conformed.
X. Staff] I have no more to say to him.
X. U. S. Have you any more questions to
ask him ?
X Staff. No ; I never saw him before ; Hie
may be as honest a gentleman for aught I know
as any one lure.
Mr. Treby. Then, if your lordships have no
more questions to ask him, he may withdraw.
My lords, the next witness we produce is to this
general stili, and that is Mr. Stephen Dugdale.*
X. Stuff, is he only to speak to the general
or to me ?
Mr. Tre by. To the general ; we shall tell your
lordship when we come to the particular.
Sir F. Win. My lords, with your lordship's
favour, we have opened our case, first, that we
would go on with the general ; while we are
upon that head, we will only call those that
speak to the general, hut it may happen that
one witness may speak to both ; but we shall
divide his testimony when we come to observe
upon it. .
Mr. Treby. My lords, I take leave to ac-
quaint your lord&hips, that Mr: Dugdale hath
but a low voice, and your lordships will not
hear him without a command of silence: Which
was done by proclamation, and Mr. Dugdale
sworn.
Mr. Treby. Mr. Dugdale, take notice, wa
call you now only to the general part of the
Plot, what discourses you have heard from
priests in general concerning any part of the
Plot; and you are not to give your particular
evidence against this noble lord, my lord Staf-
ford,till we call you thereunto.
X. H. S. What say you, sir?
♦See the Introduction to the Trials for the
Popish Plot, ante vol. 6. p. 1420, and Colledge'a
case a. d. 1681, infra,
4P
lSlfr] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. 1680.— Proceeding? against the [13M5
Mr. Dugdole. About 15 or 16 years I have
been acquainted, that there nasa design carry-
ing on for the bringing in the Romish religion.
I bare at several times, by the means of my
ghostly father, that was Mr. Evers, been ac-
quainted that there were several lords and se-
veral priests in several places* in England that
were to carry it on ; that i&j they were to have
money and arms ready for those that wanted,
against the death of the king. I have seen se-
veral letters which have come from Paris, Rome
and St. Omers, all relating to this, to encourage
Mr.. Evers> and that he should go on to encou-
rage the rest that were engaged. For that pur-
pose I read some at* them, and intercepted
them, because they were all directed to me.
Mr. Evers hath sent me upon messages, some-
times by letters, and sometimes by word of
mouth, and all tended for the introducing of
their religion, and that all should be ready with
money and arms against the king's death:
for I did hear nothing till of late about the kill-
ing of the king. In particular, there came one
letter to Evers from my lord Stafford, to shew
that things went on well beyond sea, and hoped
they did so here. I saw another time some
letters which were also transmitted to my hands
by a messenger that came from Bosco be 1, which
did come from Paris, and so to St. Omers, from
whence they came to Harcourt, and Harcourt
had , delivered the letters to have the opinion
of some lords; all which contained advice
which they had received from Paris, which they
counted extraordinary good. The purport of
these letters were to shew there was no way
could be more likely to do their work, than if
any sudden death should happen to the king,
then to throw it upon the Presbyterians, who
had killed the old king, and were likeliest to be
thought to have done this ; and so they might
easily get (he Protestants, those of the church
of England, to join with the papists against the
Presbyterian*, who would by that become odious
and so should weaken tbe party uthe more easily
to accomplish their design. 1 have of late se-
veral times been in company with priests and
other gentlemen in the country, when they
have had consultations both for the introducing
.heir own religion, and taking away the king's
life, which they did always intend to be about
November, December, or January 1678. It
was late in the year ; but all that year 1678
this was their consultation. I have been sent
to the Jesuits, some of them, particularly to
2&r. Vavasor and Mr. Gavan, for some monies,
for there was a general collection, and there was
the sum of 500/. at one time, which I received,
and gave to Mr. Evers, and here turned it to Lon-
don, for the carrying on this design, and for dis-
charging an account of arms and things received
from beyond sea. And it was agreed that my
lord Aston, sir James Symmons, and others,
•hould go in October 1678, to dispose of the
arms which they had so received, same here, and
some beyond sea, to the value, I heard say, of
30,000/. Moreover I did hear that they were
to have men raised there, as well as here. So
I have heard from Mr. .Evers, and Mr. Gswaa
and others, and I have been also by whoa it
hath been discoursed that the king of France
was acquainted with all these designs, and that
he would furnish os with men, and should not
be wanting with all other aid and assistance,
if there should be any alteration, if the king
should die or be taken away or co that purpose.
I have been several times put upon to make
foot-races, to draw people together, that they
might the better have discourses together with-
out suspicion, I was likewise put iu trust by the
Jesuits all the while the plot was carrying ea,
and particularly, for two years,, all tbe letters
relating to the plot came to my hand, some of
which I opened, and some I kept in my own
hands ; and particularly I had one that came
to my hands, which was about the death of sir
J£. Godfrey; for when I carried it to Mr. Evers,
he said, there was one of our enemies taken oat
of the way: and it was contained in the letter
This night sir E. Godfrey is dispatched ; which
by the date of it was tbe 19th of October 1678.
I told hhn that that would prove a discourage-
ment to us, and would be the ruin of all the
design : he said, not so, it would rather prove
otherwise ; for he was one that was acUve in
punishing lewd and debauched persons, and it
would rather be put upon cbem than us, as done
out of revenge.
Mr. Trtby. Pray, sir, speak the particular
time when that letter came into Stafford-
shire.
Mr. Dugdalc. The 14th of October 1678,
which was Monday.
Mr. Trtby. The date of it pray tell us.
Mr. Dugdhle. The 12th of October 1678.
Mr. Treby. The very night that it was done.
Mr. Dugd. Likewise when I did hear there
was like to be an alteration in the government
and having such fair promises, I was encouraged
to it, and was very willing to contribute to
tbe design ; and I did then make over an
estate which I had of four hundred pound
value for that purpose and for the praying for
my soul. And when my lord Aston and I
should come to account, as there was money
over and above due to me, I did like wrist
promise, because I saw money would be want*
mg I would give them a hundred pound mora.
There were several other gentlemen, as Mr.
Hevingharo, sir' James Symons, my lord
Aston, Mr. Draycolf, Mr. Howard, and Mr.
Gerard, who did to my knowledge contribute
towards tbe carrying on of this charge, for
defraying of money and raising arms, and pay-
ing for them. And I have seen letters from
beyond sen, that have been to Mr. Evers,
that all things have been ready as to the
arms, and there only wanted orders how they
should be disposed of; and I have been several
times brought to tbe oath of secresy for fear I
should disclose it ; and particularly that time
that I vtent away from my lord Aston's, which
was on a Monday morning, Mr. Evers gave it
me, about the 18th or 19th of November
1678. And I did then promise b/ all the
131 7] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles IL 1680.— Fit* Popiih Lord* flSM
promises I could make, and upon the sacra-
none, in his chamber, that I would not dis-
close it ; but having others to advise me in it,
•uch as could better do it, that told me such
oaths were better broken than kept : and
thereupon I came to discover the thing, which
I have done to the best of my knowledge. I
am very loth to charge my memory in parti-
cular, about times, or how many were in com-
pany, but those that I am sure of ; but there
bath been in company at the consultation
several times, Mr. Hevingham, Sir James
Symons, Mr. Vavasor, Mr, Petre, Mr. Howard
srt|d my lord Aston himself ; when there hath
been a speech about the design for the in-
troducing of religion, and for taking order
•bout money _ to buy arms, and particularly
when my lord Stafford was by about the death
•f the 'king, and that was about September
1678.
Mr. Treby, Mr. Dugdale, you speak of
levying arms, and of the oath of secrecy that
was given you ; where there not other spiritual
weapons used ? Was there not an indulgence
or such a thing ?
Mr. Dugd. There was An indulgence about
1678, or thereabout, which came through
Ireland's hands, transmitted from beyond sea,
and so to Mr. Evers, and Mr. Gavan was
put on to publish it, which he did one
time at Boscobe). And it was likewise at all
private chapels, that whoever was active for
the introducing the Romish religioner kill-
ing the king, should have a free pardon of all
bis sins.
Air. Foley. Pray declare what arguments
have been used by your priests to induce you
to this design ?
X. H, S. Raise your voice, that we may
bear what you ask.
Mr. Foley. We would know what arguments
bave been used to persuade to this design ?
Mr. Dugd. They have told me in their
meetings, the king was an excommunicated he-
retic, and he was out of the pale of the church,
therefore it was lawful to kill him, and it
was no more than the killing of a dog.
Sir John Trevor. My lords, I desire to
ask him one question farther, what he hath
beard about a massacre that was intended ?
L. H. 8. Have you heard of any massacre
that was to he ?
Mr. Dugd. I have heard that about the time
the king should be killed, several should be
provided with arms, and such instruments, and
rise all of a sudden at an hour's warning and so
come in upon the protestants, and cut their
throats ; that was one proposal : and if any did
escape, there should be an army to cut them off
in their flight.
• Mr. Treby. My lords, I desire to ask him
one question farther, whether he ever knew or
beard of Mr. Oates and fiedlow till tire plot
was detected ?
Mr. Dugd, I have heard of them from
priests, as messengers entrusted by them, but
no otherwise.
L. H. S. When did you hear that ?
Mr. Dugd. A have formerly declared it.
Mr. Treby. Ay when?
L. H. S. Before the discovery, or after ?
Mr. Dugd. Before the discovery.
Mr. Treby. My lord, the reason of the ques-
tion, and the use we make of it is this; we
charge the papists with the conspiracy of a plot,
and they charge our witnesses with a conspi-
racy to accuse : now it appears, that Mr. Dug-
dale had not any knowledge of the other wit-
nesses and only had heard of them as persons
concerned ; so it could not possibly be a joint
contrivance among tbero.
Sir John Trevor. My lords, I desire to ask
this question, whether Mr. Dugdale hath seen
any letters from Whitebread to Evers, and what
instructions were in those letters to Evers about
the persons to be concerned, and what kind
of creatures he was to employ in this great
design of theirs ?
Mr. Dugd. I saw a letter from Whitebread,
to give Mr. Evers a caution who he did employ
or trust in the design ; for he told him there
had been good care taken therein' hitherto ;
and it were no matter whether they were gen-
tlemen of quality or not, so they were stout and
trusty, or to that purpose.
L. H. S» What should they be trusty for ?
Mr. Dugd. For the killing the king.
L. H. S. Was that said plainly in the letter f
Mr. Dugd. To the best of my remembrance,
in those very words.
L. H. 8. Was there no cypher or cha-
racter ?
Mr. Dugd. There was no cypher or charac-
ter that I know of, nothing but two letters for
his name.
Mr. Treby. My lords,' I desire Mr. Dugdale
may give an account of those papers he speaks
of; what became of them, and tell us the
reason why they were not produced ?
Mr. Dugd. My lords, when I was by the
instruction of Mr. Evers to take my flight, I
conveyed all my papers, that either belonged
to him or myself, Jor the carrying on of the
plot, and carried them to an house not far re-
mote from my lord Aston's, and by the help of
two maids
Mr. Treby. Name them.
Mr. Dugd. Elizabeth Eld, and Anne Eld.
And they two did prepare a fire in the chamber
for that purpose, and they assisted me to burn
them : I was in a great consternation and
great fear, in regard I must fly and abscond
myself, and indeed I did it with tears in my
eyes. And whilst we were burning of the
papers, one of them spied a little paper*
book, by chance, and she asked me, whether
that should be burnt ; I told her, No ; burn not
that, for there is no treason in it. With that
one4 of them asked me. Is there any treason
in the rest ? And I put them off, to the best of
my knowledge, and would not give them a direct
answer.
Sir John Trevor. Why did you content to
burn them ?
1319] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Proceedings against the [\m
Mr. Dugd. Because I knew they would dis-
cover me, and others that were cooi'crned in
the plot.
Sir F. Winning. Your lordship will be plea-
sed to observe, the burning of the letters was
before he discovered the plot, or any thing.
Mr. Sachcveretl. My lords, We desire he may
be asked one question ; he told your lordship
of the letter that came into Staffordshire about
the death of sir £. Godfrey, but he hath not
told you the reason why he was to he taken
away. We desire he will let your lordships
know what reasons they gave for it.
Mr. Dugd. My lords, 1 was desirous to know
how things went, being concerned as well as
Mr. Evers ; and I asked what the reason was
they took away his life ? Mr. Evers. told me,
that there was a message sent to Coleman, to de-
sire him that he would not ret eal what he knew
concerning the plot or any thing of that nature.
Mr. Sacheverell. From whom was that mes-
sage sent ?
Mr. Dugd. From the duke of York. And
Coleman did send word back again, What
was it the nearer ? for he had been so foolish
as to reveal all to sir E. Godfrey, who had
promised to keep it all as a secret. But upon
the examination, ofOates, before sir E. God-
frey, as a justice of peace, he was, afraid he
would come in an evidence against him ; and
had shewn himself a little too eager, which
made Coleman afraid he would witness against
him. And the duke of York did send word
back again, that if he would take care not to
reveal but conceal it, he should not come in
against him, or to that purpose : aud the next
news we beard was the letter that he was dis-
patched.
Mr. Foley. I desire he may give an accouut
what assistance the pope gave for the carrying
on of this design ?
Mr. Dugd. I heard the pope had out of his
revenue promised several sums of money for
the carrying on this plot ; and particularly
that he would assist the poor distressed Irish
with both men and money ; and there should
not be any thing wanting on his part.
X. H. S. Have you done with him, gentlemen ?
Mr. Treby. Yes, I think vie have with him,
as the general.
L. Staff. I desire to ask him, then, what sums
of money did the pope contribute to it ?
X. H. S. What sums of money did the pope
contribute tn this design ?
Mr. Dugd. I have heard of several sums in
general thut he was to contribute fur the
carrying on of the plot.
X. H. S. Did you hear of any sum certain ?
Mr. Dugd. I do not know, but I think I
beard sometimes of 10,000/., or some such
sum. I have been told by a servant that for-
merly belonged to my lord Stafford, That the
pope's daily income was 24,000/. a day ; and
that if he would do as he had promised, he
was able to do very much.
X. if. S. They told you so, you do not know
it otherwise.
Mr. Treby. We have done then with kin:
We call Mr. Praunce next. [Who was s»ora.J
Mr. Treby. My lords, I desire Mr. Prauaca
would give us an account of what discount bt
hud with one Mr. Singleton a priest, and «hea,
Mr. Praunce.* I went to one Mr. Siagjetta
a priest, atone Hall's in the year 1678; and bt
told me, That he did not fear but in a lmleun*
to be a priest iu a parish church ; and that be
would make no more to stab forty parliament
men, than to eat bis dinner, which he was at,
at that very time.
X. if. S. Where was that ?
Mr. Praunce. At one Hall's, acookinlry*
lane.
X. H. 8. Will you ask him any questions,
my lord ?
JL Staff. No, my lord.
Mr. Ireby. Then call Dr. Oates. [Who was
sworn.]
L.H.S. Do. you examine Mr. Oatesupos
the general plot, or the particular ?
Mr. Treby. Only to the general now ; sad
we desire him to take notice he is so to speak,
and to confine himself to that at present.
Dr. Gates. My lqals, in the year 1676, 1«ti
admitted into the service of the duke of Nor-
folk, as chaplain in his house, and there I cane
acquainted with one Biug, that was a priest ra
the house. And being acquainted with bio,
there came one Kentish very often to visit hia,
and one Singleton, who told me, that I should
find that the protectant religion was upon its
last legs, and that it would become me, and all
men of my coat (for then I professed myself*
minister of the church of England,) to hasten be*
times home to the church of Rome. My lard*
having had strong suspicions for some years be*
fore, of the great and apparent growth of popery;
to satisfy my curiosity, I pretended some duubu
in my mind. My lords, after some time bad
passed over, and I bad had some conversance
with these men, I found they were not men for 07
turn, because being regular men, they were not
men that had any great degree of learoiofr
Afterwards, my lords, I met with one Hutchin-
son ; 1 found him a saint-like man, or ooedial
was religious for religion sake ; and him I
found not for my turn neither : For, my lords,
my design was to deal with their casuists ; that
is, those of the society. After that I had ob-
tained the favour from him, to have some cos*
ference with one of the society, I found tfatj
were the men for my turn, because I famd
they were the cunning politic men, and tU
men that could satisfy me. After that I bad
some discourse with them, I pretended te be
convinced by their arguments. And, my lo***
after that I had thus acknowledged my coo*
viction, I desired to be reconciled ; and **
cordingly on Ash- Wednesday, 1676-f, I wtl
reconciled. And soon after my reooncii»»,fl**
Strange, who was then provincial of the society,
did tell me much after this way: Mr.On**
* See the Sentence upon him forPerjwj
▲• a. 1686, infra.
1331]
STATE TIUAtS, 32 Chaeles II. 16»0 JRw Popish Lord*.
[1399
yen arc now reconciled to the church of Rome,
and you mutt lay down your ministry, for your
ordination is io valid, and you most look upon
yourself as no-more than a layman : Pray, says
Jje, now, what course do you think to take ? I
told him, I did desire to l>e one of their so-
ciety, and to be admitted a novice into their
order. He said, it was a very honest request,
and a very honest desire ; and he said, he
would take some time to consider of it, and he
would take till the Saturday following.
Saturday following I was seut for by one Fen-
wick : I lodged then in Barbican, and Feu wick
earnc to roe, and told me, the Fathers were
met at Wild-house, and would speak with me ;
Aod he also cold me they bad granted my re-
quest, and I should be admitted. Afi*r I whs ad-
mitted, they told me, I had some years upon me,
and I could not undergo tliose burdens they
put upon younger men ; but what did I think
of travelling, and going beyond sea to do their
business ? I did agree to it, and in April 1G77,
I went aboard one Luke. Roch, master of the
Bil boa-merchant, bound for Bilboa, having
their letters of recommendation. A fterl arrived
there, which was on a Sunday in May or June,
I cannot tell which, I went the Friday follow-
ing for Valladolid in Castile, and I got thither
the Tuesday following ; but by the way I open-
ed certain letters, wherein was made mention
of a disturbance designed in Scotland. And the
letters did express what hopes they had to
effect their design in England, for the carrying
on (as they worded it ) the catholic cause, and
for* the advancement of the interest of the
bishop of Rome. My lords, after I had ar-
rived at Valladolid, there were letters there
got before me, which were dated, in May,
wherein was expressed news, that the king was
dispatched, which was the cause of great joy to
the Fathers there ; and afterwards letters
dated in May too (but towards the latter end
of May) eame, that they were mistaken, and
desired the Fathers there to stifle that news.
My lords, there came letters dated in June,
wherein they did give an account, That they
had procured one Beddin^field to be confessor
to the duke of York ; which Beddingfield by
his interest might prevail much with the Duke
in order to this design. Letters came also in
June from St. Omers, which gave them an ac-
count, that Father Beddingfield had assured
them of the Duke's willingness to comply with
them for the advancement of the catholic re-
ligion. My lords, after I had staid some time
there, and had passed through the country for
the business of the society, I found that in the
court of Spain some ministers of that court bad
been very ready to advauce money, which
money was returned for England ; and that
the Father provincial of the Jesuits of Castile,
by bis care and industry, had advanced 10,000/.,
which was promised to be paid in June follow-
ing, within a twelvemonth after. My lords, in
Jaiy I received letters out o( England, wherein
an account was given there, to the Fathers in
$pain; that they were sending them a mission
of twelve students, four whereof were to go to
Madrid, and eight to Valladolid : The con-
ductors of these twelve students were one
Father Crosse, that was his true name, andjone
Father Mumford, whose true name was Arm«i
strong. These missioners arrived in Decern*
her, where they had a sermon preached at
their coming by this same Armstrong, wherein
the oaths of allegiance and supremacy were
declared to be antichristian, heretical, and
devilish ; in which the king's legitimacy was vili
lifted and abused; and that his religion did
entitle him to 'nothing but sudden death and
destruction, in that he appeared an enemy both
to God and man. These were the contents of
that sermon, as near as I remember. My lords,
after the meeting with several letters there, in
July, August, and September, in the kingdom
of Spain, it was ordered 1 should return for
England, and in the month of November I
came for England, at which time I had letters
from the provincial of Castile, called by the
name of Padre de Uieennimo de Corduba,
who did in his letter assure the provincial in
England and the Fathers here, that the
10,000/. should be paid, as I said before, in
June following. When I came for England, at
London I was lodged at one Grigson's, that
lived in Dairy lane, near the sign of the Reo/
Lion, and there I lay until I went to St. Omers ;
and by the provincial and consuhors of the
province 1 was ordered a maintenance, and
it was paid to this roan for entertaining of me.
I went and brought these letters to this Strange,
and there was Father Keins laying ill upon
Strange's bed ; and Keins was saying, be was
mighty sorry for honest William (so they called
the ruffian that was to kill the king), that he
had missed in his enterprize. But, my lords,
this 1 think good to tell your lordships, they
were not so zealous for the destruction of the
king, till the king had refused Coleman the
dissolving of the long parliament. Then they
were more intent upon it, though they had se-
veral times attempted it ever since the Are of Lon-
don ; but when Coleman was refused the dis-
solution of the long parliament, then were they
more zealous for the destruction of the king :
But the design for the introducing the popish
religion, they have been carrying on some years
before the fire, by those instruments, some of
whom are yet alive. My lords, I left England
in November O. S. and December N. S. for
when I came to St. Omers, it was as near as I
can remember, the Oth or 10th of December,
according to the stile of the place. I carried
with me a packet of letters from Strange the
provincial, and other Fathers that were of the
consult for the province of England, to the
Fathers at St. Omers, wherein Strange did tell
them, that they had great hopes of their desiga
taking effect the next year, but as yet it would
not be effected : He said, therefore, they at
London thought fit to suspend it till they saw
what the parliament would do. And he did
in the same letter declare, That the parliament
would be about a long bill that had been brought
1819] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680— Proceedings against the [1320
Mr. Dugd. Because I knew tbey would dis-
cover me, and others that were concerned iu
the plot.
Sir F. Winning, Your lordship will he plea-
sed to observe, the burning of the letters was
before he discovered the plot, or any thing.
Mr. Sachtveretl. My lords, We desire he may
be asked one question ; he told ydur lordship
of the letter that came into Staffordshire About
the death of sir £. Godfrey, but he hath not
told you the reason why be was to he taken
away. We desire he will let . your lordships
know what reasons they gave fur it.
Mr. Dugd. My lords, 1 was desirous to know
how things went, being concerned as well as
Mr. Evers ; and I asked what the reason was
they took away his life ? Mr. Evers. told me,
that there was a message sent to Coleman, to de-
sire him that be would not reveal what be knew
concerning the plot or any thing of that nature.
Mr. Sacheverell. From whom was that mes-
sage sent ?
Mr. Dugd. From the duke of York. And
Coleman did send word back again, What
was it the nearer ? for he had been so foolish
aa to reveal all to sir E. Godfrey, who had
promised to keep it all as a secret. But upon
the examination, ofOates, before sir E. God-
frey, as a justice of peace, he was afraid he
would come in an evidence against him ; and
bad shewn himself a little too eager, which
made Coleman afraid he would witness against
him. And the duke of York did send word
back again, that if he would take care not to
reveal hut conceal it, he should not come in
against him, or to that purpose : and the next
news we beard was the letter that he was dis-
patched. '
Mr. Foley. I desire he may give an account
what assistance the pope gave Tor the carrying
on of this design ?
Mr. Dugd. 1 heard the pope had out of his
revenue promised several sums of money for
the carrying on this plot ; and particularly
that he would assist the poor distressed Irish
with both men and money ; and there should
not be any thing wanting on bis part.
X H.S. Have you done with -him, gentlemen?
Mr. Trcby. Yes, I think we have with him,
as the general.
L. Stuff. I desire to ask him, then, what turns
of money did the pope contribute to it ?
X. H. S. What sums of money did the pope
contribute to this design ?
Mr. Dugd. I have heard of several sums in
general that he was to contribute for the
carrying on of the plot.
X. H. S. Did you hear of any sum certain ?
Mr. Dugd. I do not know, but I think I
beard sometimes of 10,000/., or some such
sum. I have been told by a servant that for-
merly belonged to my lord Stafford, That the
pope's daily income was 24,000/. a day ; and
that if he would do as he had promised; he
was able to do very much.
X. if. 8. They told you so, you do not know
it otherwise.
Mr. Treby. We have dooe then with him:
We call Mr. Praunce next. [Who was sworn.]
Mr. Trcby. My lords, I desire Mr. Prauaca
would give us an account of what discourse be
had with one Mr. Singleton a priest, and when.
Mr. Praunce* I went to one Mr. Singleton
a priest, atone Hall's in the year 1678 ; and be
told me, That he did not fear but in aliitle time
to be a priest iu a parish church ; and that be
would make no more to stab forty parliament
men, than to eat bis dinner, which he was ax,
at that very time.
X. If. S. Where was that ?
Mr. Praunce. At one Hall's, a cook in Ivy-
lane.
X. H. 8. Will you ask him any questions,
my lord ?
L. Staff. No, my lord.
Mr. 'lreby. Then call Dr. Oates . [Who was
sworn.]
X. H. S. Do you exam in t Mr. Oates upon
the general plot, or the particular ?
Mr. Treby. Only to the general now ; and
we desire him to take notice he is so to speak,
and to confine himself to that at present.
Dr. Outet. My lojris, in the year 1676, 1
admitted into the service of the duke of Nor-
folk, as chaplain iu his house, and there I
acquainted with one Biug, that was a priest in
the house. And being acquainted witb him,
there came one Kemish very often to visit him,
and one Singleton, who told me, that I should
find that the protestant religion was npon its
last legs, And that it would become me, and all
men of my coat (for then I professed myself a
minister of the church of England,) to batten be-
times home to the church of Rome. My lords,
having had strong suspicions for some years be*
fore, of the great and apparent growth of popery ;
to satisfy my curiosity, I pretended some doubts
in my mind. My lords, after some time bad
passed over, and I had had some conversation
with these men, I found tbey were not men for my
turn, because being regular men, they were not
men that had any great degree of learning.
Afterwards, my lords, I met with one Hutchin-
son ; I found him a saint-like man, or one that
was religious for religion sake ; and bun I
found not for my turn neither : For, my lords,
my design was to deal with their casuists ; that
is, those of the society. After that I had ob-
tained the favour from him, to have some con*
ference with one of the society, I found they
were the men for my turn, because I found
they were the cunning politic men, and the
men that could satisfy me. After that I bad
some discourse with them, I pretended Co be
convinced by their arguments. And, my lords,
after that I had thus acknowledged my con*
viction, I desired to be reconciled ; and ac*
cordingly on Ash- Wednesday, 1676-7, I was
reconciled. And soon after my reconciliation,
Strange, who was then provincial of the society,
did tell me much after this way : Mr. Oates,
* See the Sentence upon him for Perjury
▲. B. 1686, infra.
1321]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16*0 Fret Popiak Lords.
[1399
you are now reconciled to the church of Rome,
and you roust lay down your ministry, for your
ordiuation is invalid, and you most look upon
yourself as no-more than a layman : Pray, says
he, now, what course do you think to take ? I
told him, I did desire to he one of their so-
ciety, and to be admitted a novice into their
order. He said, it was a very honest request,
and a very honest desire ; and be said, he
would take some time to consider of it, and he
would take till the Saturday following.
Saturday following I was seut for by one Fen-
wick : I lodged then in Barbican, and Feu wick
same to me, and told me, the Fathers were
met at Wild-house, and would speak with me ;
And be also told me they had granted my re-
quest, and I should be admitted. Afi*r I was ad-
mitted, they told me, I had some years upon me,
stndl could not undergo those burdens they
pot upon younger men ; but what did I think
of travelling, and going beyond sea to do their
business ? I did agree to it, and in April 1677,
I went aboard one Luke Roch, master of the
Bil boa-merchant, bound for Bilboa, having
their letters of recommendation. A fter I arrived
there, which was on a Sunday in May or June,
I cannot tell which, I went the Friday follow-
ing for Valladolid in Castile, and I got thither
the Tuesday following ; but by the way I open-
ad certain letters, wherein was made mention
of a disturbance designed in Scotland. And the
letters did express what hopes they had to
affect their design in England, for the carrying
on (as they worded it ) the catholic cause, and
for" the advancement of the interest of the
bishop of Rome. My lords, after I had ar-
rived at Valladolid, there were letters there
got before me, which were dated, in May,
wherein was expressed news, that the king was
dispatched, which was the cause of great joy to
the Fathers there ; and afterwards letters
dated in May too (but towards the latter end
of May) came, that they were mistaken, and
desired the Fathers there to stifle that news.
My lords, there came letters dated in June,
wherein they did give an account, That they
had procured one Beddingfield to be confessor
to the duke of York ; which Beddingfield by
has interest might prevail much with the Duke
in order to this design. Letters came also in
June from St. Omers, which gave them an ac-
count, that Father Beddingfield had assured
them of the Duke's willingness to comply with
them for the advancement of the catholic re-
ligion. My lords, after I had staid some time
there, and had passed through the country for
the business of the society, I found that in the
court of Spain some ministers of that court had
bean very ready to advance money, which
money was returned for England ; and that
the Father provincial of the Jesuits of Castile,
by bis care and industry, had advanced 10,000/.,
which was promised to be paid in June follow-
ing, within a twelvemonth after. My lords, in
July I received letters out of England, wherein
an account was given there, to the Fathers in
Spain, that they were sending them a mission
of twelve students, four whereof were to go to
Madrid, and eight to Valladolid: The con-
ductors of these twelve students 'were one
Father Crosse, that was his true name, andjone
Father Mumford, whose true name was Arm*
strong. These missioners arrived in Decern*
her, where they had a sermon preached at
their coming by this same Armstrong, wherein
the oaths of allegiance and supremacy were
declared to be antichristian, heretical, and
devilish ; in which the king's legitimacy was vil-r
lifted and abused; and that his religion did
entitle him to nothing but sudden death and
destruction, in that he appeared an enemy both
to God and man. These were the contents of
that sermon, as near as I remember. My lords,
after the meeting with several letters there, in
July, August, and September, in the kingdoaa
of Spain, it was ordered I should return for
England, and in the month of November I
came for England, at which time I had letters
from the provincial of Castile, called by the
name of Padre de Hietonimo de Corduha,
who did in his letter assure the provincial in
England and the Fathers here, that the
10,000/. should be paid, as I said before, in
June following. When I came for England, at
London I was lodged at one Grigson's, that
lived in Dairy lane, near the sign of the Iteo/
Lion, and there 1 lay until I went to St. Oroers ;
and by the provincial and consultors of the
province 1 was ordered a maintenance, and
it was paid to this roan for entertaining of me.
I went and brought these letters to this Strange,
and there was Father Keins laying ill upon
Strange*s bed ; and Keins was saying, he was
mighty sorry for honest William (so they called
the ruffian that was to kill the king), that he
had missed in his enterprize. But, my lords,
this I think good to tell your lordships, they
were not so zealous for the destruction of the
king, till the king had refused Coleman the
dissolving of the long parliament. Then they
were more intent upon it, though they had se-
veral times attempted it ever since the rueofLon«-
don ; but when Coleman was refused the dis-
solution of the long parliament, then were they
more zealous for the destruction of the king :
But the design for the introducing the popish
religion, they have been carrying on some years
before the fire, by those instruments, some of
whom are yet alive. My lords, I left England
in November O. S. and December N. S. for
when I came to St. Omers, it was as near as I
can remember, the Oth or 10th of December,
according to the slile of the place. I carried
with me a packet of letters from Strange the
provincial, and other Fathers that were of tea
consult for the province of England, to the
Fathers at St. Omers, wherein Strange did tell
them, that they had great hopes of their design
taking effect the next year, but as yet it would
not be effected : He said, therefore, they at
London thought fit to suspend it till they saw
what the parliament would do. And he did
in the same letter declare, That the parliament
would be about a long bill that had been brought
133S] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16S0.— Proceedings against tk$ [1 524
into the Commons house some sessions before,
bat he did not question but that the catholic
party would evade that bill. And, my lords, in
chat year, some time after, we had a letter
from our new provincial, whose true name
was Whitebread, and bis counterfeit name
White. This Father writes to the Fathers at
St. Omers, and therein he does order one
Conyers to preach upon St. Thomas of Canter-
bury's day ; and he did therein also tell them,
Chat he would be as zealous for the carrying' on
of the design as his predecessor had been :
And a sermon was accordingly preached at the
Sodality church, wherein after be had com-
mended the saint, whose day they celebrated,
for his great virtues, declaring how unworthily
be was sacrificed, be did inveigh against the
^tyranny, as he called it, of tecnporal princes,
and particularly of the king of England ; and
when he came to speak of the oath of alle-
S'ance and supremacy, he declared, that be
oked upon them as antichristian and devilish,
And that it was fit to destroy all such as would
countenance them. We have done with the
year 1677, and we come now to January, 1678.
L. H. S. Yon speak of oae Keins, who (lay-
ing upon Strange's bed) said he was, sorry ho-
nest Will had missed his enterprize : You have
not explained who that honest Will was; ex-
plain that.
Oates, It was Grove.
L. R. S. But about what did he say he was
sorry for him ?
Oates. That he had missed his design.
Mr. Foley. What was that missing of his
design ?
Oates. That he had not killed the king, my
lords, in Jan. 1678.
L. M. S. You mean according to the foreign
•tile r
Oates. Yes, according to the foreign stile,
my lords ; we received letters out of Ireland,
and there, my lords, we found by the contents
of those letters, that they were as busy in Ire-
land as we were in England. We found there
that the Tart bo ts, and other persons, were very
xealous in raising of forces, and were resolved
to Jet in the French king, provided that the
parliament should urge the king to break with
France. My lords, likewise in January, as
near as I can remember, Morgan was sent into
Ireland as a visitor, which is something a bet-
ter place than a provincial, but only it is bot
temporary for the time he visits, and he returns
in February or March, and gives us an account
how ready the Irish were to vindicate their
freedom and their religion from the oppression
of the English, as they called it. My lords, in
February some were employed to go into some
parts of Germany, to Liege, and to some parts
of Flanders, to see how the affairs there stood,
And how their correspondences stood, to see
whether there was not an interruption in the
correspondences. My lords, upon their return
they found that the fathers at Ghent were in-
clined to take into this business the secular
clergy ; but the fathers of St. Omers, together
with the provincial, did refuse the motion, be*
cause the secular clergy were more cowardly,
and sought themselves, and not the interest of
the church, or to that purpose. My lords, m
March we received letters, that there was a
very shrewd attempt made upon the person of
the king, and that the flint of Pickering's gun or
pistol was loose, and his hand shaking, toe king
did then escape, for which he received a disci-
pline, and the other a severe chiding.
L. H S. You explain not the meaning of
what you say; that was not honest Will, for
he, you sav, was Grove.
Oates. 1 mean Pickering received the disci-
pline, and . William was chid ; for it was Pic-
kering's flint that was loose. My lords, this was
in March, and at the latter end of March there
comes a letter from London, in which there
was a summons to a consult here in London;
and being summoned, there went over eight or
nine from St. Omers, Liege, and Ghent, to
this consult, and I did attend them in their
journeyf
L. H. S. When did that summons come ?
Oates. The latter end of March, or the be*
ginning of April, as I remember; they had
notice of it in England before, but we had
notice of it just when we were to come. I
think it was in April, as near as I can remem-
ber ; I cannot be certain in that, my lord. We
did come to town in April, there the consult
was held ; it begun at tbe White- Horse tavern,
where tbey did consult about some things of
the Society, and afterwards they did adjoorn
into particular Societies, where they did debate
and resolve on the death of tbe king, and that
Grove should have 1,500/. for his pains, and
the other being a religious man, should hare
30,000 masses said for him. My lords, after
staying in town a while we returned to Saint
Omers ; and after I bad staid there some sew
days, the new provincial did begin to visit his
province, and comes over to St. Omers, where
after staying some six days, he goes over frosm
thence to Wotton. But whilst he staid at St.
Omers, I was ordered to go into England to at*
tend the affairs here, and for to do some other
services that tbey should employ me about.
My lords, accordingly I did come over, and it
was on the 23rd N. S. as near as I remember,
I got to Calais; the 24th I got to Dover; on
the 25th I got to Sittenburn, but between Do-
ver and Sittenburn we had some boxes seised :
For at Dover we met with Fenwick, who at
since executed, who went by the name of
Thompson, and carried a box with him ; and a
little on this side Canterbury it was seized by
the custom-house officers, and several little
trinkets in it, which were seized as French
goods; and he did desire the searcher to stand
his friend, aud he would give him something
for his pains, and told bias where he shoeld
write to him in London. There was a sub-
scription on the box to one Blundel, bat he
should write to him by the name of Thompson,
at the Fountain tavern near CfaaringHcrossw
We arrived in town tbe 17th of June which is
1335] STATE TRIALS, 32 ChablbsII. 1680 Five Popish Lords.
[139G
the 87th New Stile; it was upon a Monday;
and there were letters whicn did follow us,
wherein were proposals made to sir George
Wakeman for the poisoniug of the king, and
that the 10,000/. which the Spaniards had
promised in January before, and was accord-
ingly paid in London at the time, should be
proposed to Wakeman to poison the king. I
found that Coleman did look upon it as too
little, and he thought 15,000/. should be given
to him : I found that Langham thought it too
much, and that he ought to do so great a piece
of service for nothing, and told us he was a
narrow spirited man, it he would not engage in
such a thing. My lords, there was 5,000/. as the
books told me, paid; but I did not then see
it paid, because I was then ill, and not fit to
stir abroad. My lords, we are now past June
1678. In July Father Ash by comes to town,
who did revive the proposal to sir G. Wake-
man ; but being sick of the gout, be hastened
down to the Bath; and when he came there,
as soon as he began to be well, he was advised
by the Fathers to see how the catholics stood
affected in Somersetshire; for they had an ac-
count in March 1678, "by letters from Berk-
shire, Oxfordshire, and Essex, that the catho-
lics stood well affected ; and sir William An-
drews did secure that the people of Essex
should stand to their points; and so several
men did secure that they would have them in
readiness. My lords, in August (I cannot re-
member every particular, but refer myself to
the records of the House), about the 26th of
August, I find that Fen wick went to St. Omers,
and there he was to attend the provincial home,
and to give the provincial an account of the
proposal accepted by sir G. Wakeman ; but in
July (if your lordships please to give me leave
to go back again) Strange comes to town, and
falling into discourse about the fire of London,
and the rebuilding of it, be very frankly told
me how it was fired, and how many of those
concerned were seized ; and amongst the rest,
told me, that the duke of York's, guard, as by
his order, did receive them, and were after-
wards willing to discharge them ; which I forgot
to mention before; but upon review of my
papers, I do find that it was told me his guard
did release the prisoners that were suspected
about the fire, and tbat all the ordqr they bad
for it, they pretended was from the duke.
But now, my lords, we return to August again.
Upon the 3d of August, I find Ireland did pre-
tend to go to St. Omers, and a letter came from
him as directed from thence ; but we find by
bis trial and other things since, that he went
into Staffordshire ; and about the 12th of Au-
gust (as I remember) he was here in town.
The latter part of July I communicated with
Dr. Tongue, and gave him some particular ac-
count of affairs; I desired him to communicate
it to some that might make it known to the
king : The king had notice the 13th of August,
or the 14th, as I remember; and by the 3d of
September I was betrayed, and was exposed to
of those men whose contrivances
I had thus discovered. So my intelligence did
cease wholly the 8th of September. Then was
I forced to keep private ; and upon my exami-
nation, what information I gave before the
Lords and Commons, I refer myself to them.
L. U. S. My lord Stafford, will you ask him
any questions ?
L. Staff. No, my lord ; I am not at all con-
cerned in his evidence. *
L. H. S. You say you were betrayed : Can
you tell how, or which way you were betrayed ?
Oatet. My lord, I will give this honourable
house what tight I can in it; but I desire then
to be excused from my oath, for I cannot speak
it of my own knowledge.
Sir J. Trevor. Then the next witness we de-
sire may be called, is Mr. Bernard Dennis.
Mr. Serj. Maynard. This witness we call
now, is to confirm what Dr. Oates hath said,
that he was at Valladolid and other places in
Spain ; he will be short.
L. H. S. Call you Oates again?
Sir F. Win. No, my lord, we call Dennis to
confirm what Dr. Oates hath said. He hath
given your lordship an account that he was in
Spain ; we now produce one that saw him when
he was there, and so confirms the evidence thai
was given by him.
Then Mr. DennU was sworn.
Mr. Trcby. Mr. Dennis, Do you give theif
lordships an account of your discoursing with
Dr. Oates in Spain, or any where else abroad,
and where.
L. H. S. Stay a little; do you know Mr.
Oates?
Dennis. Yes, my lord.
L. H. S. How long have you known him?
DeAnis. I knew him in the year 1677.
L. H. S. Where ? *
Dennis. At Valladolid.
L. H. S. Did you see him there? Was he a
student there ?
Dennis. Yes, my lord.
L. H. S. Was he known by the name of
Oates ?
Dennis. Yes, my lord, he was.
Sir Fr. Win. My lord, we desire he may tell
his knowledge of Mr. Oates, what conversation
he had with him in Spain.
Dennis. My lords, I was in Spain, in the
city of Victoria; and leaving the city of Vic-
toria in the month of June, I took my course to
Madrid, and passing through the city of Valla*
dolid, going into the convent of Dominicans,
there came an Irishman, a priest of Ireland,
out of the city to see me; and there he told me
there was a student of the Jesuits, by name
Mr. Oates, an Englishman ; and I understand-
ing this, went into the college of the Jesuits to
sec Mr. Oates, and there had conversation with
Mr. Oates; and in the conversation I had with
him there* he told me that he was a vicar in
Kent, and that he was chaplain to a great noble-
man of England, by name Howard; and that
he went out of England by the consent of the
Jesuits in England, being converted by them to
7
1327] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings again* the (1325
the Roman catholic faith, and that his going
Snto Spain was to fit himself for the Society of
the Jesuits. And understanding my resolution
Was to go to Madrid, he did desire me to carry
a letter to the archbishop of Tone, one James
Lench an Irishman, who lived at Madrid. And
further ; he lent me four pieces of eight to de-
fray rnj journey to Madrid, and desired me to
pay (he money to the procurator of the Jesuits
at M.tdrid. And in carrying this letter to the
archbishop, when I came there, I got a Domi-
nican friar of Ireland, by name Humphrey Del-
phin, to go with me and see the archbishop at
his lodging; and going in, 1 delivered him the
letter in the presence of the Dominican, and he
per u bed it in my presence, and in the presence
of a pritst tout waited upon him ; and finishing
the content* of the letter, as I suppose, with a
smiling countenance he turned about, and said,
Sirs, the contents of this letter is, that Mr.
Oates is desirous to receive the order of priest-
hood from me, or at my hands ; and if it be so,
it will be much in our way, and this man will
be a fit man for our purpose : for, said he fur-
ther, Dr. Oliver Plunket, * primate of Ireland,
is resolved this year, or with the next conve-
nience, to bring in a.French power into Ireland,
thereby to support the Roman Catholics in
England and Ireland; and if it please God, I
myself, without any delay, will go into Ireland
to assist in that pious work. All this discourse
between us and the archbishop, and between
Oates and me, was in July 1677. And there I
did speak and convene with Mr. Oates. All
this I can testify for truth on the behalf of Mr.
Oates, who was then a student in the college of
Valladolid, and had no other name nor title.
Mr/ Foley. I desire himself may tejl your
lordship what religion* he is of.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Dennis. I am a Dominican frier, my lord.
X. H. S. Are you ?
Dennis. My lords, I am.
X. H.S. At this time? *
Dennis. Yes, my lords.
Serj. Muynard. He hath a pardefft, my lords.
Mr. IWby. This hath been controverted, my
lords, whether Mr. Oates ever was in Spam ;
we desire to make it out plain to the world, for
the confirmation of his evidence; therefore we
ask him again, Do you know the person of Mr.
Oates? — Dennis. Yes, I do.
Mr. Treby. Is this person that gave evidence
last before you, the same person you saw at
Valladolid ?
Dennis. Yes, it is.
Mr. Saeheverell. My lords, we desire to ask
of him, why he had the four pieces of eight of
Mr. Oates?
X. H. S. Why had you that money of Oatas?
Dennis. \For to defray my journey to Madrid.
X. H. S. Was that all you had?
Dennis. Yes, my lords.
Mr. Sacfttv. We pray he may be asked how
he came to be so needy ?
- ...
* See his Case, a. d. 1681, infra.
Dennis. My lords, I was not altogetberaeedy;
but it it very certain, religious persoos, espe-
cially of my order, cannot carry any money
about them but what is requisite tor their jour-
ney, and that which may be removed from phce
to place.
Sir J. Trtzor. I desire to ask him, did he see
any mure money that Dr. Oates had ?
Dennis. I did see Dr. Oates in his chamber
in the college at Valladolid, when be delivered
me the four pieces of eight, to draw out a
drawer of a table in his chamber, and out of
the drawer he pulled a bag of money, which
was a very considerable sum of money, and I
am certain he did not want money there then.
Mr. Tr* by. My lords, I think we have dooa
with him ; if my lord please to ask him any que**
he may.
L. Staff. But only one question, for I never
saw the man in my life. I desire be may be
asked, whether he be still of the Romish reli-
gion.
Sir J. Trevor. My lords, We have not yet
done with him ; the question we would ask haa
is this, Whether he hath heard of any money
that was gathered in Ireland for the support of
this Plot?
X. H. S. The question asked of you, Have
you heard of any money gathered in Ireland for
the support of this Plot"?
Dennis. I have both heard and seen of it.
X. if. S. When, and where ?
Dennis. My lords, In the year 1668, 1 en*
tered into the order of the Dominicaus in Ire-
laud; and in the same year there arrived at
Dublin a Frai.ciscan Frier, brother to the late
earl of Carlingford; and arriving there, he
made several collectors for the levying a com-
petent sum of money out of every convent and
religious house. My lords, the collectors were
by name John Reynolds, alias Lnndy, and Joha
Berne; and arriving at the county of Sligoe, in
the month of May
L.H.S. What year?
Dennis. 1668. And when the collectors came
to the convent of our Friers in Sligoe, all the
Friers gathered together into a room, and these
collectors coming in did read their commission
given them from one James Taaffe, as they
said ; and I was there personally present, though
a novice ; and upon reading their commissions*
they said 40s.. was to be paid by tbe Prior, and
the Friers of that convent ; and the provincial
of the order of the Dominicans questioned the
power of the said Reynolds and Berne, and so
did the prior ; and I asked why the money was
levied ? They gave answer, That that levy and
several other levies was to encourage the French
king, in whose kingdom were several bishops of
Ireland, clergymen, and others, whose business
it was to provoke the king to bring an army to
invade Ireland, whenever time should serve.
X. H. S. Have you done with him now?
Mr. Treby. Yes.
X. H. S. Will your lordship ask him any ques-
tions?
L. Staff. My question is only, Whether he
!«9J
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \6$0.—Five Popish Lord*.
[1S30
profess himself of the Church of Rome, or a
protestant ?
Dennis, I am a Roman Catholic still, my
lord.
L. H & Are you ?
Dennie. I am, my lord.
L. &'rf* Then I have no more to say.
Sir J. Trevor. Then we call Mr. Jenison.
(Who was sworn.]
Air* Treby. Mr. Jenison, who have been among
the papist*, and you have bad great confidence
among ihem ; pray declare what you know of
their desigus for the destruction of the protes-
tant religion, or the means of doing it, whether
by the murder of the king, or what other means,
tell your whole knowledge.
. Mr* /e'jison. My lords in the beginning of
the year 1678, I have heard Mr. Ireland and
}f r. Thomas Jenison, both Jesuits, speak of a
design they had to gain a toleration of con-
science for their party in England : and the
way then designed to get it was, by procuring a
great sum of money from their party, and by
bribing the then parliament. I have heard
them likewise discourse of procuring the duke
of York's succession ; and that (.they told me)
was to be done, by procuring of commissions
tx> be granted out to those of their party, to be
ready to rise upon the death of the king. I like-
vise have lieard them discourse of the necessity
aind usefulness to their party of the alteration
of the government established, and that (heir
religion could never flourish till that was done,
and this kingdom altered according to the
French model. In the month of June 1678, I
was at Mr. Ireland's chamber ; and there hap-
pening a discourse, that the Roman Catholic
religion was like to come into England, Mr.
Ireland did then say, there was but one who
stood in the way, and that it was an easy thing
to poison the king, and that sir George Wake-
nan might easily and opportunely do it. I
asked Mr. Ireland, whether sir George Wakeman
was the king's physician ? His answer was, No,
but he was the queen's, and so might have an
opportunity to do it. In the month of August
the same year, the day that I came from
Windsor, I went to Mr. Ireland's chamber, and
I found that he was newly come from Stafford-
shire, and was drawing off his boots on the
frame of a table ; he aaked me whence I was
come ? I told him from Windsor : He enquired
of me about, the diversions of the court. I
told him, I understood his maieflty did take de-
light in hawking and fishing, but chiefly in fish-
ing ; and that he went accompanied only with
two or three, early hi the morning. Then Mi.
Ireland replied, He were easily taken off or
' removed. To which I answered, God forbid;
being surprised at that time; Oh, said he, I say
not that it is lawful. Then there happened
some interruption to our discourse, about Staf-
fordshire ; then we fell into a discourse of their
religion that he said was suddenly to come into
England: and be asked me if I would be one
of those that would go to Windsor to assist to
take off the king.. I told him, No; then he
VOL. Vll.
told me he would remit the 20/. I owed him, if
I would go to Windsor to be one of those that
were to take off the king. My lords, I told him
I would have no hand jo any such matter, and
that I would not for twenty times 20/. have any
hand in the death of the king. Said he, Would
you do nothing for the bringing in of our re-
ligion ? I told him, I thought it would never
come in by blood: I told him further, God
forgive roe, if the king were taken off so, well
and good, but I would have uothing to do with
it. He left not the discourse there, but asked
me, if I knew any Irishmen that were stout
and courageous. I told him, Yes I did, and
named captain Levallian, Mr. Kar^ney, Mr,
Broghall, and Mr. Wilson, all gentlemen of my
acquaintance about Gray's Inn. When I
nimed these, he asked me if I would go along
with him to Windsor, to assist them in taking
off the king. I told him, I did not think any
man of estate would engage in such a matter j
that I was heir to an estate, my brother being
a priest, and that captain Levallian was heir to
a very good estate, and therefore I did believe
he would not do such a thing, unless the pique
which he had to the king or religion might move
him to it. My lords, he approved of these per-
sons, and said, he knew the first two of them,
Levallian and Karney;.and he set down, as I
remember, the other two names in writing.. He
told me he was going to the club, to Mr. Cole-
man, and Mr. Levallian, and Karney at that
time, and then asked me for the money, the
30/. that I owed him. He told me, be wanted
fourscore pounds, and he desired me that I
would return it as soon as I came into the
country. Now, my lords, the same day that I
received this SO/, of Ireland, I went with Mr*
Thomas Jenison, the Jesuit, to Harcourt's cham-
ber, to give the Fathers thauks for the loan of
the money ; and there Mr. Jenison failing into,
discourse on -that common topic of their re-
ligion coming into England, he did then use
that expression which Dr. Oates hath in his
Narrative, * If C. R. would not be R. G. be
should not he long C. R.' And he did inter*
prtt it thus in Latin : * Si Carolus Rex non esset
Rex Catholicus, non foret diu Carolns Rex.*'
And he did add, my lords, upon the discourse,
that it the king were excommunicated or de-
posed, he was not longer king, and it was no
sin, or no great >in to take him off; and if it
were discovered who did it, two or three might
perhaps suffer, but denying the fact, the matter
soon would be blown, over. My lords, about
two months after the mustering the forces upon
Ho wn slow- Heath, Mr. Thomas Jenison did tell
me he had a matter of great consequence to
impart to me ; that there was a design on foot
so laid, as that it could not well be discovered,
and that the greatest papists, the greatest Catho-
lics in England, were in the design ; that the
queen ana the duke were in it, ami that several
lords, by name my lord Bellasis, my lord Powis.
my lord Arundel o( Wardour, and others : I be-
4Q
* Sea ante, vol. 6, p. 145$.
1331] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings against the [1S3!
that he was then told Mr. Oates wai in the
Plot : I only observe it now, for the end of the
case in point of time.
L. H. S. He said it was in July.
Mr. Jen. It was two months after the mut-
tering of the forces, about the latter end of
July.
L. H. S. Before the discovery ?
Mr. Jen. Yes.
L. H S. Did you know Oates at that time?
Mr. Jen. No, my lords, I was not acquainted
with him.
Sir J. Trevor. Did you not see him then ?
Mr. Jen. Yes, I saw him at Ireland's cham-
ber.
Sir J. Trevor. When was that ?
Mr. Jen. The latter end of April, or the be*
ginning of May.
L. H. S. You say y6u did not know him m
July ; how then caii you say you saw him be-
fore ?
Mr. Jen. I did not know him ; I only saw
him come into Ireland's chamber, aod whisper
for some time, two or three miuutes, and the*
they told me that that was Mr. Oates, a panoa
newly come over to them, a brisk jolly hod,
and worthy my acquaintance.
L. H. S. Is this the same man you a«
there ?
Mr. Jen. My lords, I cannot remember at
race, for he was gone out when I was told of
him.
L. H. S. Why, you know Mr. Oates now ?
Mr. Jen. Yes, I do.
L. H. S. Do you know him to be the sum
man that you saw then ?
Mr. Jen. I can't tell that.
Sir J. Trevor. My lords, he says, Mr. Otta
only came in fur three or four minutes, tod ha
back was towards him, and his brother toW
him when he was gone who it was.
Mr. Jen. I only knew his name from m;
brother. ,
Mr. Treby. And I presume your lordships
will observe this was at the very tinte of the
Jesuits nonsuit.
Sir J. Trevor. We desire this gentleman may
tell vour lordships who his brother is, and wbst
profession he is of.
Mr. Jen. My brother was a Jesuit brought
up at St. Omers.
L. H. S. Your brother is dead, and died in
Newgate ?
Mr. Jen. Yes, he did so.
L. H. S. Pray recollect yourself again : wbea
lievemy lord Stafford was named, but I cannot
be positive in that. At that time, my lords, I did
with f had had a commission in the new raised
levies that were mustered oo Uounslow- Heath.
H.' told me lie would procure me a commission
from the duke of York, and that there whs a
new army t<> he rai>ed to bring in t *e Catholic
religion ; but he did say he would tell me more
parti u!a s niter my receiving the sacrament of
secret ; and I did understand by him, that that
commission was not to he sent till the taking off
the king was effected : But being I was sur-
prised at it, he would not tell me the whole
matter, but he desired me to come and receive
the sacrament atsir Philip Tyrwhitt's in Blooms-
bury, and i hen he would acquaint me with the
whole affair. My lords, being in Berkshire
about the month of December 1678, at Madam
HaX's in ShinefieJd parish, one Mr. Cuffil a
Jesuit came into our company. It was about the
trial of Coleman; and Mr. Cuffil did then say,
that be thought Mr. Coleman was infatuated,
upon the discovery of the plot, to give notice to
Mr. Hurcourt, Mr. Ireland, and Mr. Fenwick,
and the other Jesuits, to burn or secure their
papers, and yet not to secure his own. My
sister Hall was present at this discourse; and
Mr. Cuffil did then further say, that Be* tannine
did draw a sentence out of the scripture, to
favour the Pope's authority of excommunicat-
ing, depriving, and deposing temporal princes ;
and the saying was this, * Quod Papa babeat
eandem potestatem super lieges, quam Jehni-
ada habuit super Athaliam.' And that there
were other corroborating testimonies among the
fathers for it.
Mr. Treby. My fords, we des'^e to ask him,
whether ever he heard of Mr. Oates being in
the Plot, or being thought trust-worthy among
them.
Mr. Jen. Yes, my lord*), I did.
L. U. S. When did you hear it, and of
whom ?
Mr. Jen. Of my brother Tho. Jettison the
Jesuit*
L. H. S When did he tell you so ?
Mr. Jen. About the tatter end of July,
1678, when there was a discourse of a design,
aud that the greatest Papists were in it, he
•aid, Mr. Oates a parson newly come over to
them, was in that design : I answered, I did
wonder that he would trust a reconciled ene-
my, lie answered, That being once recon-
ciled, they were more zealous and trusty. I
submitted to his opinion, and instanced in Dr.
Godwvu and Dr. Baytey, that were Protes-
tants, and afterwards came over to the Church
of Rome.
Mr. Treby. We have done with him, my
lord.
L. H. S. Will your lordship ask him any
questions, my lord Stafford ?
L. Staff. No, tny lord.
Sir F. Win. My lords, I would only observe
the time when he says bis brother told him of
the design, that it was about the time of the
snuswring the forces on Heunslow-heath ; and
was it that you saw the man they called Oates
at the Jesuit's chamber I
Mr. Jen. My lords, it was in the year 167H,
the latter end of April, or the beginning of
May. And I will, tell you why I apprehend it
to be that time. My brother being a priest,
lived with sir Philip Tyrwbitt in Lincolnshire ;
and in that year, in Lent, he came to tows
with my lady and that family, and he sod I
used to dine together at the fish-ordinary at
Pedley's. And about three weeks or a monta
after that time, when at came to town, I wai
1333] STATE TRIALS, $2 Chabxes II. 1680— Five Popish Lords. [1334
•t Mr. Ireland's, chamber, and there Wat a gen-
tleman, whom they told me was Oates,
X. H. S. This you say was the Utter end of
April, or beginning of May, 1678 ; for the
time is material : Upon your oath you say it?
Mr. Jen. Yes, my lords, I do.
X. H. S. You say it was at Ireland's cham-
ber ?
Mr. Jen. Yes, my lords.
Sir JP. Win. My lord*, will you give us leave
to ask him one short question ; because some
of the gentlemen doubt of it, we would ask it
again : What his brother was, whether he was
a Jesuit or no ?
Mr. Jen. I have heard him own it, my lords.
X. H. S. Whom do you call next, gentle-
men ?
Mr. Treby. If it please your lordships, we
shall in the next place produce our evidences
that are matters of Record ; and we desire
your lordships' advice and direction how we
are to minister the same, whether your lord-
ships will have them all read, or but a word of
them, and let them be left with your lordships.
X. U. S. What Records are they ?
Mr. Treby. They are the Records of the at-
tainder of Coleman, Ireland, aud the other
conspirators.
X. H. S. The fact is so notorious that they
were attainted and executed, that the reading
of a word will serve the turn.
Sir J. Trevor. Then we desire they may be
produced here, and the copies proved upon
oath ; and then we shall leave them upon your
lordships table. And, my lords, we desire like-
wise at the same timl, to save another trouble,
there may be delivered in the convictions of
Heading, Lane, Knox, and others.
Then Mr. Clare was sworn, and delivered in the
Copies of the Records.
JL H.S. What Record is that ?
Mr. Clare. It is the record of the attainder
of Coleman for high treason.
X. H. S. Did you examine it?
Mr. Clare. I did examine it.
X. H. S. Is it a true copy ?
Mr. Clare. To the best of my undertanding,
it is. ' Here is likewise a copy of the record of
the conviction of Ireland, Pickering, and Grove,
for high treason. #
X. H. S. Is there judgment of attainder en-
tered upon record?
Mr. Clare. Yes, my lords, there is judgment
entered. Here is a copy of the indictment, con-
viction, and attainder of Whitebread, Fen wick,
Harcourt, Gavan, and Turner for high treason.
Here is a copy of the record of attainder of
Richard Langhorn for high treason. Here is
a copy of the attainder of Green, Berry, and
Hdl, for the murder of sir Edmundbury God-
frey. Here is a copy of the conviction of Mr.
Nathaniel Reading, for endeavouring to suborn
Mr. Bedlow to retract his evidence against
some lords in the Tower, and sir Henry Tich-
borne.
I* H.S. What is the judgment there?
Mr. Clare. The judgment is entered upon it;
and it is to pay 1,000/. fine, and to be put in
and upon the pillory in the Palace-yard, West*
minster, for an hour, with a paper upon his
head, written in great letters, " For endeavour-
ing subornation of perjury." Here is a copy of
the record of the conviction of Tasborough and
Price, for endeavouring to suborn Mr. Dug-
dale, and judgment entered upon it. And here
is a copy of the record of conviction of Knox
and Lane, for conspiring to asperse Dr. Gates
and Mr. Bedloe. Here is the record of the
conviction of John Gijes, for barbarously at-
tempting to assassinate John Arnold, esq. one
of his majesty's justices of the peace ; and the
judgment entered thereupon is, To stand three
times on the pillory, with a paper on his hat de-
claring bis offence ; to pay 500/. to the king, to
lie in execution till the same be paid, and find
jsureties for his good behaviour during life.
X. H. 8. Deliver them all in. And if my
lords have occasion to doubt of any thing,
being left in the court, they will be there ready
to be used. (All which were then delivered in.)
Mr. Treby. My fords, we humbly desire that
the record of Coleman may be read, because
there is more of special matter in it than auy
of the rest, and your lordships may dispose of
the others as you please.
X. H. S. Read the record of Coleman.
Then the Clerk read (in Latin) the record of
the attainder of Edward Coleman, formerly
executed for high-treason, by him committed in
this horrid Popish Plot, which is in English as
folio we th.
Of the Term of St. Michael, to the ISth year
of the reign of king Charles the Second, &c.
Middlesex.
At another time, to wit, on Wednesday next
after eight days of St. Martin this same term,
before our lord the king at Westminster, by the
oath of twelve jurors, honest and lawful men of
the county aforesaid, sworn and charged to en-
quire for our said lord the king and the body of
the county aforesaid, it stands presented, That
Edward Coleman, late of the parish of St.
Margaret, Westminster, in the county of Mid-
dlesex, gent, as a false traitor against the most
illustrious, most serene, and most excellent
prince, our lord Charles the second, by the grace
of God of England, Scotland, France and Ire-
land, king, defender of the faith, &c. and his
natural lord, not having the fear of God in his
heart, nor weighing the duty of his allegiance,
but by the instigation of the devil moved and
seduced, the cordial love, and the true, due and
natural obedience, which true and faithful sub-
jects of our said lord the king towards him our
said lord the king ou^ht and oi' right mi* l>ouud
to bear, utterly withdrawing; and deviHog, and
with his whole strength intending the peace
and common tranquillity of this kingdom of
England to disturb, and the true worship of
God within this kingdom of England practised,
and by law established, to overthrow ; and se-
dition and rebellion within this realm of Eog-
1335] STATS TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1080.— Procudtogi Against the [IBM
land to move, stir up, and procure ; and the
cordial love, and true and due obedience, which
true and faithful subjects of our said lord the
king towards him our said lord the king should
bear, and of right are bound to bear, utterly to
withdraw, blot out, and extinguish, and our
said lord the kins to death and final destruc-
tion to bring and put ; the 29th day of Sep-
tember, the 27th year of the reign of our lord
Charles the second, by the grace of God, of
England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, king,
defender of the faith, &c. at the , parish of St.
Margaret, Westminster, aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, falsly, maliciously, subtilly and trai-
torously proposed, compassed, imagined and
intended sedition and rebellion within this
realm of England to move, raise up and pro-
cure, and a miserable slaughter among the sub-
jects of our said lord the king to procure and
cause; and our said lord the king from his
kingly state, title, power and government of this
realm of England utterly to deprive, depose,
deject and disinherit, and him our said lord the
king to death and final destruction to bring and
put ; and the government of the same realm,
and the sincere religion of G»d in this kingdom,
rightly, and by the laws of this realm established,
for his will and pleasure to change and alier,
and the state of this whole kingdom in its
universal parts well instituted and ordained,
whoJIy to subvert and destroy, and war against
our said lord the king within this realm of
England to levy. And to accomplish and
fulfil these his most wicked treasons and trai-
torous imaginations and purposes aforesaid, the
amine Edward Coleman afterwards, to wir, the
said 39th day of September, in the abovesaid
27 th year of the reign of our said lord the king,
at the parish of St. Margaret Westminster afore-
said,in the county of Middlesex aforesaid,falsely,
subtilly and traitorously devised, composed, and
writ two letters to be sent to one M. la Chaise,
then servant and confessor of Lewis the French
king, to desire, procure and obtain to the said
Edward Coleman, and other false traitors
against our said sovereign lord the king, from
the said French king, his aid, assistance and
adherence, to alter the true religion in this
kingdom then and still established, to the su-
perstition of the Church of Rome, and to sub-
vert the government of this kingdom of Eng-
land : and afterwards, to wit, the said 29th day
of September, in the abovesaid 27 th year of the
reign of our said lord, now king of England,
&c. at the aforesaid parish of St. Margaret
Westminster in the county of Middlesex afore-
said, falsly and traitorously devised, composed
and writ two other letters to be sent to one M.
la Chaise, then servant and confessor of the said
French king, lo the intent that he the said M. la
Chaise should intreat, procure and obtain to the
Said Edward Coleman, and other false traitors
against our said sovereign lord the king, from
the aforesaid French king, his aid, assistance
and adherence to alter (lie true religion in this
kingdom of England then and still established,
lo (he superstition of the churpb of Rome, and
to subvert the government of this kingdom of
England; And that the aforesaid Edward Cole-
man, in further prosecution of his treasons
and traitorous imaginations and purposes afonv
said, afterwards, to wit, the same 29th day of
September, in the abovesaid 27th year of the
reign of our said now lord the king, the afore-
said several letters from the said parish ofSt
Margaret Westminster, in the couiuj of Mid-
dlesex aforesaid, falsly, subtilly and traitorously
did send into part* beyond the seas, there to lie
delivered to the said Monsieur La Chaise. And
that the aforesaid Edward Coleman, afterward
to wit, the 1st day of December in the 27to
year of the reign of our sovereign lord Charles
the second, now king of England, Ate. atuSe
aforesaid parish of St. Margaret Westminster,
in the county of Middlesex abovesaid, one let-
ter from the aforesaid Monsieur La Chaise (ifl
attswer to one of the said letters, so by bun
the said Edward Coleman writ, and to toe said
Monsieur La C liaise to be sent, first mention-
ed) falsly, subtilly and traitorously received ;
and that letter so in answer received, the daj
and year last abovesaid, at the abovesaid pariso
of St. Margaret Westminster aforesaid, id the
county of Middlesex aforesaid, falsly, sob-
tilly and traitorously did inspect and read over;
and that the aforesaid Edward Coleman, the
letter aforesaid so by him in answer received in
his custody and possession the day and year
last aforesaid, at the aforesaid parish of St
Margaret Westminster, in the County of M&
dlesex aforesaid, falsly, subiilly and traitorously
detained, concealed and kept ; by wi kb said
letter the said Monsieur La Chaise, the dar
and year last abovesaid, at the aforesaid parin
of St. Margaret Westminster, in the county
of Middlesex aforesaid, signified and proawsed
to the said Edward Coleman, to obtain fa
him the said Edward Coleman and other fabt
traitors n gainst our said lord the king, from d*
said French king, his aid, assistance anil adhe-
rence. And that the aforesaid Edward Cole-
man afterwards, to wit, the 10th day of De-
cember in the abovesaid 27th year of the reign
of our said sovereign lord Charles S. now king
of England, &c. at the parish of St. Margaret
Westminster aforesaid, in the county of Mid-
dlesex aforesaid, falsly, maliciously, sobtillj,
and traiterooaly did relate and declare hit
traiterous designs and purposes aforesaid to
one Monsieur Hurigni (then envoy extraordi-
nary from the French king to our said most se-
rene king, at the parish aforesaid, in the county
aforesaid, residing) to move and excite hud tie
said envoy extraordinary with him the said Ed-
ward Coleman in his treasons aforesaid to ptf*
take : And the sooner to fulfil and complest
those his most wicked treasons and traKort*
imaginations and purposes aforesaid, be the
said Edward Coleman, afterwards to wit, thl
19th day of December, in the abovesaid ST»
year of the reign of our said lord* Charles tflt
second now king of England, &c. at the afore-
said parish of St, Margaret Westminster, in the
county of Middlesex aforesaid, advjttdfyi •*"
1337] STATE TRIALS, SSC&ahlbs
lioioualy, subtilly and traitorously did devise,
compose, and write three other letters to be
•em to one sir William Throgmorton, kt. then
as subject of our now lord the king, of this
kingdom of England, and residing in France in
parts beyond the seas, to solicit him the afore-
said Monsieur La Chaise to procure and ob-
tain of the said'French king his aid, assistance
and adherence aforesaid. And those letters
last mentioned, afterwards, to wit, the day
and year last abovesaid, from the aforesaid pa-
rish of St. Margaret Westminster, in the county
of Middlesex aforesaid, to the same sir Wil-
liam Throgmorton in France aforesaid, falsly
and traiterously did send, and cause to be de-
livered, against the duty of his allegiance, and
against the peace of oor said now lord the king,
bis crown and dignity, and against the form of
the statute in such case made and provided.
Wherefore it was commanded the sheriff of
the county aforesaid, that he should not omit,
&c but that be should take him, if, &c. to
answer, &c. And now, to wit, on Saturday
next after eight days of St. Martin, this same
tern before our lord the king at Westminster,
came the aforesaid Edward Coleman under
the custody of William Richardson, Gent,
keeper of the gaol of our said lord the king of
Newgate by virtue of the king's Writ of
Habeas Corpus ad suhjieiencT, &rc. (into whose
custody before then, for the cause aforesaid, he
was committed) to the bar here brought in his
S roper person, who is committed to the marshal
cc. and presently of the premises to him above
imposed, being asked, how he will thereof be
acquitted ? saith, that he is in no wise thereof
Suilty, and thereof for good and evil doth put
imself upon the country. Therefore let a jury
thereupon come before our lord the king at
Westminster on Wednesday next after fifteen
days of St. Martin ; and who,&c. to recognize,
&c. because, &c. the same day is given to the
said Edward Coleman, &c. under the custody
of die said keeper of the gaol of our said lord
the king, of Newgate aforesaid, in the mean
time committed to be safely kept until, ore. At
which Wednesday next after fifteen days of
St Martin, before our lord the king at West-
minster, came the aforesaid Edward Coleman
under custody of the aforesaid keeper of the
kiag*s gaol of Newgate aforesaid, by virtue of a
writ of our lord the king of Habeas Corpus ad
iubjiciencT, &c. to the bar here brought in his
proper person, who is. committed to the afore-
said keeper of the king's goal of Newgate afore-
said. And the jurors of the jury aforesaid, by
the sheriff of the county aforesaid hereunto im-
panoelled, being called, came ; who being cho-
sen, tried, and worn to speak the truth upon
the premises, say upon their oaths, that the afore-
said Edward Coleman is guilty of the high trea-
son aforesaid, in the indictment aforesaid speci-
fied in manper and lorm as by the said indictment
above against him is supposed ; and that the
aforesaid Edward Coleman at the time of
perpetration of the high* treason aforesaid, or
at any time afterwards, had no goods, chat-
II. 16S0.— Frt* Popish Lards.
[13tt
tels, lands or tenements, to the knowledge
of the jurors aforesaid. And the aforesaid
Edward Coleman being asked jf be bath
any thing, or 'knows what to say for him-
self, why the court here ought not to pro-
ceed to judgment and execution of him upon
the verdict aforesaid, saith nothing, but as be-
fore he had said : And hereupon instantly the
attorney- general of our said lord the king, ac-
cording to due form of law, demandeth against
him the said Edward judgment and execution
to be had upon the verdict aforesaid, for our
lord the king* Whereupon all and singular
the premises being viewed, and by the court
here understood, it is considered, That the said
Edward Coleman be led by the said keeper of
the goal of Newgate aforesaid, unto Newgate
aforesaid, and from thence directly he drawn to
the gallows of Tyburn, and upon those gallows
there be hanged, and be cut down alive to the
earth, and his 'entrails be taken out of his belly
and be burned (he still living) ; and that the
head of him be cut off, and the body of hint be
divided into four parts ; and that those head
and quarters be put where- our lord the king will
assign them, &c.
L. Staff. I do not hear one word he says,
my lords.
L. H. S. My lord, This does not concern
your lordship auy further than as to the gene-
rality of the Plot.
Sir. W. Jones. My lords, we have now done
with our Proofs for the first general head that
we opened, which was to make ir out, that i^ere
was a Plot in general. We now come to give
our particular Evidence against this very lord ;
and before we do begin, we think fit to acquaint
your lordship*, that our evidence will take up
spine lime: if your lordship* will have the pa-
tience to hear it out now, we will give it ; but
if your lordships will not sit so long till we can
finish it, it may be s«»me inconvenience to us to
break off in the middle. And therefore v#e
humbly offer it to your lordships consideration,
whether you will hear it now, or no.
L. H. S If it cannot be all given and heard
now, it were better all should be given to-
morrow.
Sir W. Jones. If your lordships please then,
we will reserve it till to-morrow.
L. Stuff. My lords, I would only have your
directions, whether I shall answer this general
first, or stay till all be said against me. That
which I have to say to this general, will betery
short.
L. H. S. My lord, you are to make all
your answer entire, and that is best for you.
L. Staff. I am very well contented, thai 1 may
be better prepared for it.
X. H. & Is ir your lordships please re that
we should adjourn into the parliament- chamber.
Lords. Ay, Ay.
L. H. S. Then this House is adjourned into
the parliament-chamber.
And the Ltords went away in the same order
they came.
The Commons returned to- their **<*"* ***
1830] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— Proceedings against the [1346
X. H. 8. You were best make that excep-
tion when there is cause for it ; in the mean
time go on with your evidence.
Sir F. Win. We did perceive his counsel
came up towards the bar, and very near him,
and therefore we thought it our duty to speak
before any inconvenieuce happened. This
lord being accused of high- treason, the allowing
of counsel is not a matter of discretion. If
matters of law arise, all our books say, that
counsel ought to be allowed : but we pray that
there may be no counsel to advise him in
matter of fact, nor till your lordships 6nd some
question of law, to arise upon the evidence.
X. H. S. When tnere is cause, take the ex-
ception ; but they do not as yet misbehave
themselves.
Mr. Treby. My. lords, We presume yoor
lordships did, from the strength and" clearness
of yesterday's evidence, receive full satisfaction
concerning the general Plot and Conspiracy of
the Popish Party. It being an evidence appa-
rently invincible, not out of the mouths of two
or three witnesses only, but of twice that
number, or more, credible persons. Upon
which we doubt not but your lordships who
hear, and strangers and unborn posterity when
they shall hear, will justify this prosecution of
the Commons, and will allow that this Impeach-
ment is the proper voice of the nation crying
out, as when the knife is at the throat. Bi the
evidence already given, I say, it is manifest that
there was a general grand design to destroy oar
religion, our king, and his Protestant subjects.
And it ib even impossible that this design, so
big, could be conducted without the concur-
rence of such persons as this noble lord at
the bar : it could not be carried on by less and
lower men. And it were a wonder, that a
person so fervently affected and addicted (as
this loid is) to that party, should not be in at
so general a design of the party. But tikis
indeed is but presumptive evidence, which will
induce a moral persuasion. We shall now
produce sjuch positive evidence as will make a
judicial certainly ; and will abundantly suffice
to convince your lordships, and convict this
lord. The particulars you will hear out of the
mouths of the witnesses, whom we shall call :
they wilt testify what share this lord bad in
(almost) all the parts and articles in our charge;
contriving and contracting for the murder of
the kii>3, levying arms, &c. And first we call
Mr. Dugdale.
L. Staff. My lords, I do conceive I have
pood ground to except against this man for a
witness : for my own particular, I know myself
as clear and free as any one here ; but I wifl
not except against bim now, but reserve it
against the time when I come to make my de-
fence, and therefore admit him to be sworn, pro-
vided, my lords, that he look me full iu the nee.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, What is your ex-
ception against this man that be may not be a
witness ?
L. Staff. I do admit him to be sworn, I say
nothing now against him*
Mr. Speaker resumed the cbair, and then the
House adjourned to eight of the clock the next
oorning.
The Second Day.
Wednesday, December 1, 1680.
A Message was sent, from the Lords, by sir
Timothy BaJdwyn, and sir Samuel Clark.
Mr. Speaker ; The Lords have sent us to ac-
quaint this House, that they intend to proceed
to the Trial of William Viscount Stafford, at
ten of the dock this morning, iu Westminster-
Hail.
Mr. Speaker left the chair, and the Commons
came into Westminster- Hall in the new-erected
eourt. And the managers appointed by the
Commons went into the room prepared for
them in that court, to proceed to the particular
Evidence against William viscount Stafford.
About ten of the clock in the morning, the
lords came into the said court in their former
order; and proclamation being made of silence,
and for the lieutenant of the Tower to bring
his prisoner to the bar, they proceeded.
X. H. S. My lords expect you should go on
. with your evidence, and proceed in. the trial of
this noble lord.
L. Staff. My lords, if your lordhhips please,
I humbly desire that my counsel may be near
me for the arguing of what is fit to them to
Speak to, as to points of law ; for points of fact
I do not desire it.
X. H. S. My lord, you have an order for
your counsel to attend, and they must and
ought to attend.
Serj. Maynard. The counsel must not sug-
gest any thing to him while the evidence is
giving ; they are not to be beard as to matter
of fact.
X. H. & It is not intended to make use of
counsel as to matter of fact, but they may
stand by.
Serj. Maynard. My lords, they may stand
within hearing, but not within prompting.*
L. Staff. I assure you, if 1 bad all the counsel
in the world, I would not make use of them for
any matter of fact.
Mr. Treby. My lords, will you please to
order them to stand at a convenient distauce,
that they may not prompt the prisoner I
Sir W. Jones. My lords, 1 hope your lord-
ships will consider, that a man in a capital
cause ought not to have counsel to matter of
fact. It is true, he may advise with his coun-
sel ; I deny it not ; but for him in the face of
the court to communicate with his counsel, aud
. by them be told what he shall say, as to mat-
ters of fact, is that which (with submission) is
not to be allowed. If your lordships order they
shall be within hearing, I do not oppose it ; but
then I desire they may stand at that distance,
, that there may be no meaus of intercourse,
unless points in law do rise.
* See the Note to the Cate of Don Pantaleon
£a, ante^ vol. 5, p, 466.
134 1] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Five Popish Lord*. [1343
Mr Treby. He is sworn already.
L,. H. S. You swore him to give evidence as
to the general Plot ; you did not swear him as
to the particulars ngainst my lord Stafford.
Sir John Trevor, We are content he shall be
sworn again, we pray he may be sworn.
Sir W. Jones. It is true, my lords, we did
divide the evidence into two p*f ts, but his oath
was not divided : if your lordships please, you
may swear them- all over again, if it may be
any satisfaction, but I think it was4 never seen,
before.
Then Mr. Dugdale was sworn.
Z. H. S. There is Mr. Dugdale ; come, sir,
what say you ?
L. Staff1. Really he is so changed I do not
know him.
Mr. Dugd. My lord', I have witnesses to
prove that you know me.
L. Stuff. I beg your lordships that he may
look me in the face, and give bis evidence, as
the law is.
Sir John Trevor. My lords, if this noble lord,
the prisoner at the bar, will have this witness
to look him continually in the face, the court
will not hear half his evidence : we desire he
may address himself, as the law is, to your lord-
ships and t lie judges.
L. Staff. I desire the letter of the law, which
says, ray accuser shall come face to face.
Mr. Dugdale. My lords, I am willing to do
as your lordships shall order.
L. JI. S. My lord, you do see the witness,
that is enough for free to face ; aud you make no
legal exception against him, why be should not
be heard.
L. Staff. Vtrj well, my lord, I submit.
Dago. My lords, I have for some years past,
whilst I was a servant with my lord Aston, been
acquainted and frequently had discourses with
my lord Stafford, before we came to discourse
any thing concerning the plot on foot. Lately
in 1678, my lord coming down into the country,
it was either in August or September, the latter
end of August, or the' beginning of Septem-
ber.
L. Staff. I beseech your lordships he may
name the times.
L. H. S. My lord, if your lordship please, do
not interrupt the witnesses; but wherein he is
short, do you ask him the question when it ccmcs_
to your turn, I will bring it to as much certain*
ty as I can.
DtsgtL There was a meeting at Tixal, where
there were several present
L.H.S. When?
Dugd. It was in September, or the latter end
of August.
L. H. S. What year ?
Dugd. 1678. My- lords, I had byMr.Evers's
means admittance to hear, because of my en-
couragement, what the discourse was at that
time. It was to debate and determine upon
the former resolutions both beyond sea and at
London before, both to take away the life of the
king, and to introduce their religion, of which I
was then one. My lord Stafford was there pre-
sent, and did with the- rest conseut to it. Af-
terward* my lord Stafford being at one Mr.
Abnett's of Stafford one Sunday morning in
September, came to my lord Aston 's house to
mass : I met with my lord Stafford at some
distance from the gate, and my lord speaking to
me when he alighted off from bis horse, tolii me
it was a very sad thing they could not say their
prayers but in an hidden manner, but here long
we should have our religion established ; which
was much to my joy at that time. After that
time my lord Stafford was sometimes at Stafford
and sometimes at Tixal, I will not be positive
as to a day, but I think it was about the middle
of September. My lord Stafford sent for
me to his lodging-chamber, as he had se-
veral times before sent for me ; and said, be
had had great commendations of me from Mr.
Evers, that I was faithful and trusty.
L. Stafford. My lords, I desire I may have
pen, ink, and paper, allowed me.
L. H. S. Ay, God forbid you should be de-
nied that : give my lord pea, ink, and paper.
I hope your lordship hath one to assist you that
takes notes for you ; if you have not, you have
lost a great deal of time already.
L. Staff. There was one all da^ yesterday, my
lords ; I desire he may speak his evidence over
again,
L. H. S. Let him begin his evidence agaity
for my lord bad not pen, ink, nor paper, which
he ought to have to help his memory.
Dugd. I may miss as to the words, bat the
matter of fact 1 shall repeat : my lords, I have
been frequently acquainted whilst I was a ser-
vant at my lord Aston's with my lord Stafford
coming to my lord's house in the country, and
my lord being several times where I came to
that intimacy by Mr. Evers's means, that my
lord would frequently discourse with me. Aboul
the latter end of August, or some day in Sep-
tember, my lord Stafford, ray lord Aston, and
several other gentlemen, were in a room in my
lord Aston's bouse, and by the means of Mr.
Evers I was admitted to hear for my encou-
ragement ; and there I heard them in that de-
bate at that time fully determine a resolution
upon all the debates that had been beyond sea
and at London before, that it was the best way
they could resolve on to take away the life of
the king, as the speediest means to introduce
their own religion. After some time my lord
being at Stafford at Mr. Abnett's—
L. H. S. Was my lord Stafford at that meet-
ing where they debated to kill the king?
Dugd. My lord was there,
tion?
& Was he consenting to that resolu-
Dugd. Yes, I heard every one give their par-
ticular full assent.
(At which there was a great hum*.)
■^
* " Who can read, without horror, the ao-
cou n t of that savage m urmur of applause, which
broke out upon one of the villains at the bar,
swearing positively to Stafford's having proposed
K
-£*
1343] STATE TRIALS, S3 Charles^
X. H. 5. What is the meaning of this? For
the honour and dignity of public justice, let us
not carry it as if we were in a theatre.
Dugd. My lores, some time in September,
my lord Stafford being at Mr. Abnett's house in
Stafford, came once upon a Sunday morning to
bear mass : I meeting him at the outer gate of
my lord Aston's house when he alighted off his
hor»e, after some discourse he turned to me,
and told me, It was a sad thing we could not
say our prayer* but in an hidden maimer; but
ere long, if things took effect, we should have
the Romish religion established : and I at
that time did seem to be, and really was as
?)ad as any person could be. After some time
tbmk i« w as about the 90th or Slst of Sep-
tember, my lord St4ffo<d seut for me into bis
lodging-room, I think it was by his page, or him
that waited upon him in his chamber; and he
told me I must come to my lord ; and I im-
mediately went to his lordship, he wasjust then
arising and dressing ; he sent his man out, and
told me, he had had a good account from Mr,
Even and other gentlemen, that I would be
faithful and true to their intentions abnat the
introducing their religion. He told me, he was
likewise concerned himself, and that in a very
high degree : and for taking away the life of
the king, he offered me at that time for my
charges and encouragement 500/. and that I
should go in October after to London with him
(my lord Stafford), and that I should be with
him sometimes at London, and sometimes at an
house of my lord Aston's, about 95 miles from
London : and that I should be under the care
•f him in London and Mr. Ireland, and in the
country of one Mr. Parsons that knew of the
design. I did then shew as much resolution to
be faithful to my lord as I could, and that I
would be true to what my lord then engaged
me. I after went to Mr. Evers, and commu-
nicated to him what my lord Stafford said, and
was something in admiration at my lord's
offering me such arsum nf money, for I doubted
of my lord's ability to make good payment.
Ho told me, that I need not fear it, for Mr.
Harcourt and Mr. Ireland had money enough
in their hands to defray that and other charges ;
and I should not want money for the carrying
it on. My lords, I remember that at another
time there was a meeting, wherein there was
si debate about my going up, and other busi-
nesses; my lord Stafford was present, and
there were several there besides, I did not know
them all then ; but in the first place they told
me, I should be made equal with one captain
Adderly that is since dead, and that I should
have a reward in Londoo. 1 understood that
the duke of York, my lord Arundel, and my
lord Beilasis, and others, were to give it me ;
the murder of the king? And how is this hor-
sor deepened, when we reflect, that in that
odious cry were probably mingled the voices of
men to who** memory every lover of the En-
glish constitution is bound to pay the tribute of
ftfttitajfesudftapeccr*' Fox'* Jaine* the Second,
-Pr*c*di»g9 ajiofeej
[ISM
and speaking of the rewards to those that
were engaged, they said, there would be laud
enough from the protestants to satisfy all that
acted in the design. Another time my lord
Stafford discoursing in the dining room in my
lord Aston's house, did express his great aal,
and the reason why be was such an enemy
against the -king ; he said, both he and my lord
Aston had been great sufferers for the king, sad
for bis father, and that my lord in particular,
bis grandfather or his father, had spent dOJKOL
in the king's service, and had no recompeaee;
that he had always shewed himself loyal to the
king ; but whenever there came any place of
preferment to be dispoaed of, it was raiser
given to such as had been traitors and rebm
to the old king, and likewise to the king biauelt
tbau to any toat had been loyal. He said, ten
was his chief motive, if there were nut rtipse
in the case, wich was of a higher nature, «
to that purpose.
X. U. S. When was this last discourse ?
Dugd. In September 1678, as near ss I rs>
member, for we liad several discourses.
X. H.8. This was not the lime yon wen a*
my lord's chamber ?
Dugd. No, it was in my lord Aston's dine]
room.
X. H. S. No, nor when lie tent for yea to
offer yon the 600/. ?
Dugd. No, not at that time, it wasaaotav
time.
X. H. 5. What month and year?
Dugd. September 1678, ray lord.
Mr. Foley. I desire he may give your lord*
ships an account what »-mrtrM*r he bad ef
pardon, if he did succeed.
Dugd. I was told I need not fear ; and pv»
ticelarly my lord Stafford told me, I should hi*
a free pardon for it ; for the king bad beeees*
communicated, and was likewise a traitor, asi
a rebel, and an enemy to Jesus Christ.
X. H. Si But how could you be pardoned?
From whom were yon to have that pardos ?
Dugd. I was to be pardoned by the pops.
X. a. S. That was for your sins.
Dugd. Yes; I expected no other, if IW
gone on.
Mr. Trebjf. Were you promised nothing cht
but a pardon from the pope ?
Dugd. Yes, I was to be sainted.
Sir W. Jones. Will his lordship please ton*
him any questions ? We ask him no more.
Mr. Foley. Yes, I desire another oaestwt
may be asked him : That he would gives* *>
count of the letters my lord Stafford writ w
Evers, about the design.
X. H. 8. What say you to that qeesneaf
Dugd. There came a letter to Ever* from
my lord Stafford ; I know it to be my W"
hand : somemtght counterfeit his hand ; bet s»
near as a man can swear to the hand of aaothe
in a paper be did not see written, that was af
lord's band i That things went all well beyasd
sea, and so he did hope they did here, forist
carrying on ef thodosign ; It waeiotawpmrsav
ei^ressly.
1
1345] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— 'Five Popish Lords. (1343
• *
L. Staff. How, my lords, can I be able to
give an account of it ? I shall prove. to your
lordships, that he once said it was in August,
now he says it was in August or September. I
beseech you that he may positively stand to the
month, if not to the day.
Dugd. I -speak as near as I can;
L. Staff. But he says the 20th or 81st parti-
cularly. - .
Dugd. Thereabouts I am sure it was.
L. Staff Look you, be will be positive in
nothing. — Dugd. I will stand to that time.
L. Staff. If he swears false in (foe thing, I
hope, upon proof of that, your lordships wiH
believe he may be false in all. I pray be may
be asked what hour of the day it was, whether
it was morning or afternoon.
X. H. S. He is positive only to the 20th or
2Htof September, the time when he says you
called for him into your chamber, and offered
hitn 500/. to kill the king: would your lordship
ask him whether it were in the forenoon or the
afternoon ?
L. Staff. Yes, my lord, I would,
X. H. S. Was it in the forenoon or in the
afternoon ?
Dugd. It was in the forenoon ; for I did for-
merly speak of that, he was dressing himself
when I came in. ■
X. H. S. Then that is answered positively.
L. Staff. My lords, he says one Sunday
rooming 1 came to my lord Astori's to mass, I
desire you would please to ask him, whether
ever he saw Mr. Evers and me in his life alone
together ?
X. H. S. Have you seen my lard Stafford
and Mr. Evers eve* together atone ?
Dugd. Several times I have seen them walk-
ing together in the garden, and in the walks',
at my lord Aston's; 'and I have been with
them myself when there hath been only them
two besides.
X. H S. That is answered folly ; will your
lordship ask him any thing else ?
L. Staff. He says he was to go to London in
October with me, I stand not upon that till I
come to make my answer ; but I take it, he
says the 20th or 21st of September, when I of-
fered him 500/. in my chamber, to kill the king,
that he went presently to Evers to speak with
him about it.
X. H. S. As doubting the payment of the'
money, and he told him, that Harcourt and
Ireland* would pay it.
L. Staff. Was it the same day? pray ask him^
my lords.
Dugd. I do not say it was the same day, but
it was the next time 1 could come to speak with'
him.
X. H. S. He tells you, it was as soon as he
could speak with him.
L. Staff He said before, it was presently
after he went from me. I desire your lordships
would take notice how he contradicts himself
in every circumstance.
— - ■ - — — — ■ — —
* See their Cwe, ante, pp. 79, 31 1 of this vol.
4R
Mr. T/cby. „ We have done, my lords, with
hi oi.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, will you ask him
any questions?
L. Staff./ My lords, I have divers questions
to ask him, very many; but I humbly crave
your lordships directions, if I ask him any ques-
tions now, whether I may not ask him some af-(
terwards ?
X. H. S. My lord, you may ask questions of
the witnesses as often as you please, and when-
ever you find it useful to yon : God forbid
there should be any time to foreclose a man
from asking a question that may save his life.
L. Staff. I pray he may be asked how long
before this time he knew of the Plot.
X. H. S. How lone have you known this
: wot? . /
Dugd. In general, for the introducing of the
1 Popish religion, and the encouragement to it
by the duke of York's being successor, I have
1 known it 16 or -16 years by the means of Mr.
fcvers. '
L. Staff. My lords, I understand him, he
f eays he knew the Plot 15 or 16 years ago; if I
be not mistaken, he says so.
1 Dugd. My lords, if your lordships please to
give me leave to explain myself further, it was
r not for taking away the life of the king, but for
making ready against the king died, with men
' and arms.
L. Staff. My lords, he says in the latter end
of August, or beginning of September, I told
him such and such things; I desire he may
' ' name the day ; that may be many days, and I
i may prove I was not there ; and I can prove
for all August, and a good while in September;
» therefore 1 desire be may name the day.
' X. H. S. My lord Stafford, I come thus near
i on purpose to serve your lordship, that you
) g may not strain your voice too much ; but I am
* not so happy as to apprehend what it is you
) tay.
> I*. Staff. My lords, I say, he speaks of the latter
■ end of August, or the beginning of September ;
which is too great a latitude, and I conceive
more than ought to be given in such a matter
of importance as th's is to me ; I desire he may
name the day, for he may name days, perhaps,
that I was not there.
X. H. S. Look you, Mr. Dugdale ; my lord
does desire, if you can, you would be a little
more particular than about the latter end of
August, or the beginning of September ; if you
can remember the day, tell it us;
Dugd. I cannot remember particular days,
it being a thing I then took no account of;
only this I do remember by a remarkable cir-
cumstance, that one time was cither the 20th or
, 81st of September, 1678.
X. H. S. That was the time of your coming
into his chamber, and his offering you 500/. ?
Dugd. It was so ; but other meetings I dare
not charge to a day.
L. Staff. How then can I make my de-
fence ?
Dugd. I will stand to that time.
VOL, VII.
I«7J SEAT?
f*. $L & What set? yon, did you go pre-
sently to Mr. fvers after my lord Stafford bad
ipade toe offer, or wai it t^Q aaine day, or the
pext day ?
Dugd. To the, best of my remembrance, it
was the same day ; 1 can't. say positively.
L. Staff. My ibrdsyj have no Qther questions
with Dqgdale.
Six J. Trevor. Then, my lords, we will call
another witness.
f* 1$. S. Have yon no more to say to Dag-
dale, my lord ?
- L. Staff, Not a.t present, till I come to make
tosy,' defence.
X. M. & God forbid, but you should have
le^ave to say all ih^t you can for yourself.
Mr. Trely. Then set op Dr. Oates. Do
your lordships require, that he should be sworn
agaip?
L. gioff. I desire nothing, nor. propose it, if
1m will declare upon his oath that he took yes-
terday.
JL H. S. Hark you, Dr. Oates, this is but a
continuation of the proceedings yesterday ; you
areujpon the smne oath now that you «rere
then, and what you say this morniug will ne
lajuen to be upon the same oath.
n$r. Treby. Dr. Pities, upon, the oe,th you
have taken yesterday — —
X. 3(. 4; Vn7tweV^un again- (Wtych was
done.)
I^r. XrckSf* ^r* ^ea> P^y fPeak your
know^dge^o/nyr lord Strafford's being engaged
4ft the design.
Oates. I desire I may be left to my own
quetbod.
X. if. S. Go on in your ow,o method.
Qate*. My lords, in the year 1667, there
were divers attempts upon the life of the king,
as the, Jesuits told me ; and in the year 167^
tbeje w,as an attempt upon ^he account of t,he
king's withdrawing the indulgence in 1674 and
1675 : ip the year 1677» whilst X was in Spain,
I met with several lexers signed Stafford,
wherein my Iprd Stafford did assure the Jesuits
*n Spain, that were, of, the Irish nation, how
zealous he should appear, in the promoting of
the Catholic design. My. lords, in, <he year
167,7 I went to St. Oners, and I cape there in
December. iV^y lords, in that year, \ bsjng or*
dered to look over the papers, and put ttyera in
©/o'er, I found several letters signed, Stafford ;
? [herein niy lord, Stafford diet intimate to life,
athers, that whereas there had been aomedjfr
^re.nce betwixt him and the Society for several
years, the business was reconciled by one Sig-
Qior Con, who canje over into England in, the
yeajr 1674* to reconcile the greaj;, difference
that was betwixt the Jesuits and the secular
clergy, and between the Benedictine monks
and the Jesuits. My lords, my lord Stafford,
Vpon the, persuasion of this $ignior Con, as he
does intimate in. his letter, does assure the Je-
suits of bis, fidelity and his zeal. My. lords, in
the year 1678, I found letters from my lord
Stafford, wherein he does Uame Mr. Coleman's
openness, and bia;be jpjj, (#$' pu^q ip, tluvgreat
eieir, and that Mr. Coleman was pleated to
communicate several peat secrets to otea. of
wjipse, fidelity his lordship was not secure. Mj
lords, in 1678, in the mooth of Jane, nj lojs)
Stafford, the prisoner at the bar, cacao to Mr.
Fen wick, and there received a couionwo*
from him to pay an army that was to bersjai
tor the promoting of the Catholic interest; is*1
he did assure Mr. Fenwick that be was guisg
down intq Suffordshire, and there he did Dot
question but be should have a good sccosja)
bpw the Catholics stood affected; and be 44
not question but to grve a good account a**
affairs stood in Staffordshire, Shropshire u4
Lancashire ; and this commission to my hoi
Stafford was, as near as I can remember, to bt
pay-master-general of th,e army. If j lofds,
among other discourses witn my lord atthebaf)
he was discoursing about my lord duke of Nor-
folk, and wy lord Arundel his son ; aad star
several other passages, he (Fenwick) *a* snV
ins of him how my Torq Arondel came to, km
a Jesuit in bis house. My lord Stafford dty
say, that my lord of Peterborough, his fca>
in-law, was instrumental in. it, on purpose t
oblige the duke of York ; for my lord Aroaa^
as I have been told, kept Bather Symouk a
b^ house, who to my knowledge *aa a Jesuit.
But, my lords, be came to, Mr- Feawkk'i (n
lord Stafford did) by the name of lit. How
of Effingham.
L. H. S% Were you at Fenwiek's whtnej
lord Stafford came, to bis chamber ?
Oates. Yes, my lord.
£. A S. £ook upon my lordStaflbrd, is mat
the same person r
Oates, It is the same gentleman that ess*
there by the name of Howard of Effiujliam.
L. JET. S. And he took the coauniauoa?
Oates. Yes, he did so.
L. H. S. And be promised to effect it I
Oates. Yes, and be said that he waidas
going down in the country, and lie did not
doubt but at bis, return* Grove should 4p lb
business,
L. If. St Who said so,' Fenwick ?
Oates, No, my bid Stafford. And sajs
Fenwick to. my lord Stafford again, Sir, it s
fit thaj some should be. here present, lestyoa
fail of your expectation ; or to that ppip*&
It is twp years since, and X cannnt leawate
the words, but my lord Stafford did say, he an
of necessity, to go into the country, at that ooa
And there he did write a letter to St. Oe*»i
in which he did, excuse himself aboot a jossi
man that was to be sent to the Jesuit* cote
whom he bad taken care of another war. A*
he desired, their excuse, but he wopld beat
faithful tothem, as anybody, for all tba^. Ass
the same hand that wrote, that letter, br stt
the comparing I could make in rn^thoo^
wrote, ail the qther letters that I saw, si *
Oncers, and in.Spaip. My, lords, I swfJJJ
lord Stafford at Dr. Perrott*s I think Wl
it was in. June or, July 1^78; it wasbeitri
the rising of the parliament that sat that sofa*
mcr, and mjt Ifir^ Stafford, w^v 4pm&
M»] STATE TBIALS, 9*CaAfcLBtII. \QSO*-Fit* Ptybk Lonti. [10$6
«>f » sbo he was to tend over to Lisbon,
nod lie went over by- the mme of Sir John
Stafford. And after this discourse was over
they fell into a discotatse of the affairs in
timid, end my lord was mighty glad there
eras so good a correspondence and concord,
fcboegh, my lords, it was not very great ;
lee the Jesuits had an irreconcileable quar-
tet with the rest of the clergy: bat my
lord did heme that their fair correspondence
tonight tend highly to the advancing the Ca-
tholic cause. But, my lords, 1 have one
thing more to speak as to the discourse at
Fenwick's chamber ; speaking of the king he
•aid, he hath deceived us a great while, and
we can -beer no longer.
L. HjS. Who said so ?
Gate*. My lord Stafford, tliO gentlemen at
the bar.
L. H. 8. When was that ? At Dr. Per-
*etr\?
Oaf St. No, I speak of a passage at Fcn-
ttick's which I had forgot, my lords, this is all
2 cam re.nember at present.
Mr. Folty. My lords, I desire he may give
an account what letters my Lord Stafford sent
to Fenwick and Ireland to pay money.
Oatts. There was some money returned, but
k was no greet sum, and h was about private
Justness : Mf. Morgan was to receive it : I
chanced to have the money in my own keep-
ing : Mr. Fenwick gave it me to pay to Mr.
Morgan, and the letter m which the sum was
eneationed did give them aft account (for it was
out' of Staffordshire), that he found things
Stand in a very good state there. But I being
sot within, Mr. Morgan called on Mr. Fen-
wick for the money, Which I returned to him
when he had paid it.
L. Staff. My lords, I do, in the first place,
desire to know where Mr. Fenwick lived.
L. H. 8. Where did Mr. Fenwick live when
yon saw my lord at his chamber, and the com-
mission delivered ?
(hte». His lordship, I suppose, knows very
well where he lived, he lived in Drury Lane.
t. Staff. I will submit to any thing, if ever I
saw the man, or heard of brm till the discovery
Of the Plot.
Osfe*. He came to him by the name of
Thompson.
L. a. 8. Your lordship does not observe ;
your lordship says that you never knew any
Fenwick, but your lordship knew one Thomp-
son, and that Thompson was Fenwick.
L. Staff. I did know One Thompson, but
that Thompson I knew was an English mer-
chant in Brussels, and not a Jesuit.
G*t&. I cannot say what my lord knows,
that be knew Fenwick to be a Jesuit, but be
knew one Thompson, that was Fenwick the
Jesuit.
I*.99*f. I never heard of the name tiH this
Plot.
Gate*. Bt* if yout lordship please, I will
sjiw/you w reason why I believe he knew him
e» bt m jesoit, bseaaii the
Often in their Months i« their discourses :
which gives me a ground to believe he knew
him to be what he was : fiut, my lord; he took
his Commission from him.
L. Staff. I desire he may be asked ■ ' ' "">
L. H. 8. Good my lord, raise your voice,
for I am come half way to heat yon*.
L. Staff. Pray, my lords, give me leave
to ask him, whether Dr; Oates hath not said
several times since I was first imprisoned;
that he never saw me in his life. I think I
Was imprisoned the 2lst of October 1678.
Oattt. My lords, I never said any such
thing.
L. Staff. I will willingly die, if ever I saw
this doctor in my hre.
Oatct. I excuse my lord for that, for I was
in another habit, sina I weOt by smother name,
and your lordships do remember I came in
another habit to make the first discovery.
, L. Staff. My lord, I never saw his face
nor know him, nor Fenwick, or Thompson,,
otherwise than one Thompson, a merchant
at Brussels.
Data. But my lords, I have on* thine
more to say of my lord Stafford; my lord
Stafford went into France, 1 cannot say the
year but I believe it is within the term of six
Or seven, but he went over to France ; and it
did appear by letters from him, that SSgnior' Con
was made choice of to heal rhe difference be-
tween the Regulars and the Seculars; and Signiot
Con did come over in the year 1676, and there
did make a kind of a peace among them, which
lasted whilst Con stayed here, and Con did
bring over messages, to which my lord Stafford
(if he tells any truth in his own letter) did return
answers.
L. Staff. For the present, all 1 say to it k
this, I never writ any one letter this 45 years,
nor had any any correspondence with any
Jesuit.
L. JET. 8. I beseech you, my lord, make ma
capable of serving your lordship, by letting me
hear what you say.
L. Staff. My lord, I have a great cold, and
can speak no louder ; I desire to ask d)is wit-
ness no more questions at present, but I say, I
never writ any letters to any priest this £5
years,
Mr. Foley. Then my lords,* if my lord hath
done, we will call another witness, and that is
Mr. Edward TurberviHe.* (Who was sworn.)
* Of this man, Burnet says, " Another wit-
ness appeared against' lord Stafford,- one Tur-
berviHe ; who swore, that in the year U675
the lord Stafford had taken much pahis ft>
persuade him to kill the king : he betsfn the
proposition to him at Paris ; and sent him by
the way of Dieppe over to England, telling him
that be intended to follow by the same road:
but be wrote afterwards to him that he was to
go by Calais. But he said he never went to
see him upon his coming to England. Tm>
bervill* swore the year wrong at first : but upon
recolkotien he wetit and corrected that* error.
135 1 ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 6&0.— P> octcdings against the {ltt*
L. H. S. Look upon the prisoner. Do you
know my lord Stafford?
Mr. Turberville. Yes, my lord.
L. H. S. Raise your voice, and speak deli-
berately.
Mr. Trcby, Give an account of your know-
ledge, and use your own method.
Turberoilki My lords, in the year 1675 1 was
persuaded by my lady Powis, and one Morgan
thai was confessor to the family, to go to
Doway, in order to take upon me the frier's
habit. When I came there, instead of religion,
I found nothing but hypocrisy and villainy
among them, and quickly grew weary of staying
there, and with much difficulty I escaped thence
to go for England : When I came into England,
I did think that my friends would look unkindly
upon me, because I refused to live in that way
that they proposed to me to live in. I used all
the means I could to have them reconciled, and
This at such a distance of time seemed to be no
great matter : It seemed much stranger that after
such discourses once begun he should never go
near the lord Stafford ; and that lord Stafford
should never enquire after him. But there was
a much more material objection to him. Tur-
berville, upon discourse with some in St. Mar-
tin's parish, seemed inclined to change his re-
ligion : they brought him to Dr. Lloyd, then
their minister : and he convinced him so fully
that he changed upon it : and after that he
came often to him, . and was chiefly supported
by him : for some mouths he was constantly at
his tahle. Lloyd had pressed him to recollect
all that he had heard among the papists relating
to plots and designs against the king or the
nation. He said that which all the converts
at that time said often, that they bad it among
them that within a very little while their religion
would be set up in England ; and that some
of them said, a great deal of blood would be
shed before it could be brought about ; but he
protested that he knew no particulars. After
some months dependance on Lloyd he with-
drew^nnrely from him ; and he saw him no
more till he appeared now an evidence against
lord Stafford : Lloyd was in great difficulties
upon that occasion. It had been often de-
clared, that 'the most solemn denials of wit-
nesses before they make discoveries did not at
all invalidate their evidence ; and that it im-
ported no more, but that they had been so long
firm to their promise of revealing nothing : so
that this negative evidence against Turberville
could have done lord Stafford no service. On
the other hand, considering the load that al-
ready lay on Lloyd on the account of Berry's
business, and that his beiog a little before this
time promoted to be bishop of St. Asaph was.
imputed to that, it was visible that his disco-
vering this against Turberville would have aggra-
vated those censures, and very much blasted
him. In opposition to all this here was a
justice to be done, and a service to truth, to-
wards the saving a man's life : and the question
was very hard to be determined. He advised
made application to them, that since I coald
not bear with the life they would have had me
lived in, they would contrive some way forme,
being a younger brother, that I might, live n
the world, but they were so averse and iois*
terate against me, that they told me, instead af
doing any thing for me, they would do me all
the' mischief and prejudice they could; and
having lived all my time among them, I though
the world would receive a character of ne ton
tbem who were my relations, as they wodi
please to represent it. So haviug.no hopes a
England, I took a resolution to go into France,
where I had a brother that was a Benedictist
monk : And I hoped that he being in good re-
pute amongst them, might be able to done
some service there. When I came to Paris
my brother used all the endeavours imaginable
to get' me to be of that order ; but I baviof »
ill a conceit and opinion of the order thatl wai
with all lus friends, and with myself in parti-
cular. »The much greater number were of
opinion that he ought to be silent. I wd,
my own behaviour in Staley's affair shewed
what I would do if I was in that case : bft
his circumstances were very different: Sol
concurred with the rest as to him. He bid
unother load on him : he had writ a book
with very sincere intention*, but upon iter/
tender point : he proposed, that a discrisft*
nation should be made between the regain
priests that were in a dependance aod soda
directions from Rome, and the secular prieso
that would renounce the pope's deposing paw
and his infallibility : he thought this weald
raise heats among themselves, and draw era-
sures from Rome on the seculars, which »
conclusion might have very good effects. Tw
was very plausibly writ, and designed wi»
great sincerity : but angry men said, all tM
was intended only to tate off so much from the
apprehensions that the nation had ofpoper/j
and to give a milder idea oft great bodj
among them : and as soon as it hadtbatefet
it was probable that all the misMoaenei
would have leave given them to pat on that
disguise, and to take those discriminating to*
till they had once prevailed ; and then they
would throw them off. Thus the most *eak»|
man against popery that I ever yet knew* •**
the man of the most entire sincerity, was »
heavily censured at this time, that it waiad
thought fit, nor indeed safe, for him to declare
what he knew concerning Turberville." t .
Mr. Hargrave in his unpublished "Opinj*
and Argument/' of which I propose attbeew
of this case to give some account, animad'eitt
with much severity upon the conduct ^^"J
Lloyd, and more particularly upon that ■
bishop Burnet, iu this transaction.
Burnet's contrast of his own behaviour*
the case of Carstairs with that of Lloyd in n*
case of Turberville, seems to be exhibited »w
somewhat less of delicacy than might to^te*
due to the friendship between the two bisbef*
Seeas Carstairs v, 6, pp. 1415, liSOf 1 W ***
1353]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680— Fwc Pcpuh Lords.
(1364
In before, and thinking all the rest were the
same, I was unwilling at all to eater into it.
And after I staid there awhile, I resolved to
come over into England* My brother used all
the means be could for my accommodation, and
recommended me to this noble lord, the pri-
soner at the bar, who lodged then at a corner-
house in a street which,- as I remember, bears
the" name of La Rue de Beaufort, where I was
several times with him, in order to come over
with him in the yacht fur England. After I
had been there for a fortnight with this lord, he
understanding my condition, by my brother,
and by the other fathers of that convent, and
imagining I was a fit instrument to be employ-
ed on such an occasion, proposed to me a way,
whereby, as he said, 1 might not only retrieve
my reputation with my relations, but also make
myself a very happy man: And after having
exacted from me all the obligations of secrecy
which I could give him, he at length told me in
% direct terms, it was to take away the life of (he
king of England, who was an heretic, and con-
sequently a rebel aguin»t God Almighty. I
looked upon it as an extraordinary attempt, and
desired time to consider of it before I would
undertake it. And I gave him this answer, I
would give him my resolution at Dieppe, where
we were to go on board for England. And
when I came to take my leave of this noble
lord at the bar, he was sitting upon the .bench,
and he was troubled with the gout in his foot
at that time. And he told me he had some
business to go to Versailles, and that he should
oot be in 6 or 7 days at Dieppe, where I was to
wait for him. After a while, I received a let-
ter at Dieppe from his lordship, wherein he
writ me word, that he bad altered his resolution,
and would go by the way of Calais, and that I
should hasten to wait on his lordship at Lon-
don. I have one thing more to observe to your
lordships : When I got passage from Dieppe, in
a fisher-boat for England, I never came near
my lord Stafford,, because being not willing to
undertake his proposal, I thought myself not
safe, even from my own relations; and there-
fore I made my applications to the duke of
JMonmouth, and his grace was pleased by letter
to recommend me into the French service, and
by that means I avoided his lordship's further
importunity.
X. H. S. You say, my lord did propose to
you the killing of the king; did be plainly make
the proposal in direct terms to kill the king ?
Tur. Yes, he did, my lord.
X. H. S. What did he offer you to do it ?
Tur. Nothing, for I would not accept of it.
I told him it was a matter of great concern-
ment, and I ought to consider of it ; and I took
time to think of it, and would give him my an-
swer at Dieppe, which he came not to; and so
there was an end of it.
X. H. S. What engagements of secrecy had
you given my lord, before he opened himself so
plainly to you ?
- Tur. I gave my lord my word and my pro-
mise, that I would not discover it to any person
directly or indirectly ; my 'lord had nothing of
an oath from me.
X. H. S. Will you ask him any more ques-
tions, gentlemen.?
Sir 1^. Jones. No, my lords.
X. H. S. Will your lordship ask him any
questions, my lord Stafford?
L. Staff'. M v lord, I never saw the man be-
fore in my life. I will ask bim one question,
since he hath been pleased to swear against
me.
Tur. My lords, I had no reason but the truth
to do it; for I never received any injury from
his lordship in my life.
L. Staff. It seems I had ill luck to chuse this
man for an attempt to kill the king, who was
such a coward he ran away from his colours,
and was to have been &hot to death.
Tur. Ask the duke of Monmouth ' what
character be received of me.
L. Staff. He says, in the year 1675 he went
from London to Douay, aud staid some time
there. , and then came back to England ; I be-
seech your lordships to ask him what time be
wenf back to Paris.
X. H. S. What time was it you went back
to Paris ? •
Tur. Truly, my lord, I cannot be punctual
to a fortnight, but I believe it was the beginning
of June.
X. H. S. What year?
Tur. 1675.
L. Staff. My lords, I would know who re-
commended him to me to go over with me into
England?
X. if. S. Who recommended you to my lord
Stafford to go into England ?
Tur. My lords, it was Father Sberborn, who
was then prior of the Benedictine monks in
Paris, and Father Nelson; sub-prior of those
monks, and my brother, who is a monk in the
same convent.
X. H. S. He says, that there were three per-
sons that recommended him to your lordship.
' L. Staff I never saw them in my life.
Tur. Your lordship, that says I was a coward,
and run away from my colours, will say anj
thing.
Ld. Staff. I not only say it, but will prove it
by two witnesses.
Tur. Do it if you can.
Ld. Staff. He says, in the beginning of June
1675 he went into France. I desire to know
of him, when was it he spoke to me.
Tur. In November 1675. m
Ld. Staff. He says in November.
Tur. Yes, my lord, about the beginning
of November.
Ld. Staff. I beseech your lordship, where
was it he spoke to me?N
X. H. S.- Turbervile, where was it you spoke
to my lord ?
Tur. In Paris.
Ld. Staff. Whereabouts in Paris?
lur. It was the corner house of the
street, which street faces Lusenburgh-house ;
the prince of Conde lodges on the right band »
liMj STATS THA1A W CHa«xes 1L \66Q.—Froc*dmgt e***uf Ik [UM
that street, I take it to be to* and you lodged
at the corner houte ; I think tbe name of the
street was La Roe de Beaufort.
Ld. &*ff. Which if the prim of Coode did
■■ ■ i will say no more.
Tur. I cannot be upon my oath in sach
cases, but I think he does, I take it so.
Ld. Staff. He says be was with me a fort-
night, what does be mean ?
Tur. I came to my lord several times in the
space of a fortnight.
Ld. Stuff. I desire to know who brought hiro
to me?
Tur. Father Sherborn, Father Nelson, and
my brother Father Anthony Turbenrile; and
sometimes I came alone.
X. H. S. He says, those three Fathers re-
commended him to your lordship, and be came
himself several times.
Tur. Yes, my Lords, it is true.
Ld. Staff. 1 beseech your lordships, did he
come directly to my chamber, or where?
Tur. Sometimes to my lord's chamber, and
at other times I met him in a lower room.
Ld. Staff. It concerns me mach, my lords ;
and though they be foolish questions, yet I
hope your lof dshjps will pardon me if I ask
them. Where was this discourse about killing
tbe king?
L.H.S. Was this discourse in the chamber,
or in the lower room ? — Tur. In the lower room.
Ld. Staff. He says, I think, that be bath
been in my chamber.
X. H. 8. Have you been in my lord's cham-
ber as well as in the lower room?
Tur. Yes, my lord, I have.
Ld. Staff Whatkindofsoomisit?
Tur. 1 can't remember that.
Ld. Staff. No, I dare swear you can't.
Tut. I cannot tell the particulars; what
Stools and chairs were in tbe room.
Ld. Staff. My lords, I have no more to say
tobimat Dresont.
JL H. S. Mr. Tut berrile, how long hate you
been in England ?
Tur. I caaoot answer punctually; I have
heen in England near 4 years.
L. H.S. How came it to pass that you never
discovered this sooner ?
Tur. I had no faith to believe that I should
bo safe if I did it, but my brains might be
knocked oat; and that kepi me off from doing
that service which I might be better able to do,
if I did defer it. ,
X. If. S. How come you to discover it now ?
Tur. The king's ProcJUsnaUon, and some
friends that have persuaded me that I may do
it with* safety, who will give your lot dships as*
account of it.
Ld. Staff. I desire he may attend when I
-Bake say defence,
Tur. Yes, I shall : but I am sorry his lord?
ship bath so ill a memory as to. what passed be-
tween us. J shall ho very aawiUing so do his
losdsbjp or any body else any injury, but I most
tall the truth*
Sis W.Jmm. My lords, we shall call no
snore witnesses, unless my lord, the prisma,
give us an occasion. If be shall moke say
objections to any of oar witnesses, I boat wt
shall have liberty to call wiu esses to sateen
them; but we give over at present, and ope*
his lordship's answer.
Ld. Staff. May it please your lordships, I ss*
seech your lordships, before I sat any ump
that I may know if they have any mure ws>
nesses to examine.
X. E. S. They say they will call no ants
evidence, unless, your lordship's answer do pa
them occasion to fortify their witnesses yoao*
cept against.
Lord Stafford* My lords, It is now asset
two years that I bave had the snisfortuns to.bt
accused of this detestable treason, sfcevesscs
several times in these two years a dose sri*
sooer, that my wife and children were denJsdts
come near me; and hardly a servant perauntd
to ask how I did, bat at too door of my pnsss.
My lords, this was a great and an heavy sfls>
tkm so me; that truly I did not know bow is
bear it. It is true, I bad that comfort, test I
did hope I should soon come to my trial, sad
before your lordships make ray hinqceiicy ay*
pear. In order to which* I did all I covld, hi*
mg beard this Hall was provided for it : and I ad
aspect ia a very few days to clear myself befon)
your lordships and all the world. When I bai
settled my mind, and did not foresee any gresftf
affliction that coald bejel me, I had cm asoddss,
by some of my friends, a sad message seat roe,
That the House of Commons had impeaosei
me of high treason. My lords, I looked spat
tbe House of Commons then (as I do now) si.
the great representative body of the Cosmos!
of England; and I confess, my lords, to bs
accused by them was a load, especially baaj
added to what lay before upon me, more ess**
cially to soy weak body and weaker miod, that
I was so afflicted with it, and bare so coaues*
ed, that I am scarce yet able to bear upauder
it: for I look upon the House of Commensal
the great and worthy patriots of this kingdon;
I ever held them so, and I hold them ss stjH.
My lords, these things being such great tac-
tions to me, and some other accidents, whicb
I shall not trouble your lordships with ceiling
yon of, have so much disordered my sense asi
reason (which before was little), that I sent*
know bow to clear myself to your lordships »
I ought to do ; or which way so go aboat the
doing of k; therefore I do with all awbtybtj
your lordships pardon if I say any thing tsst
may give an ©fleece, or urge that which asay
not be to the purpose. All which i desirt joa
would be pleased to attribute to tbe tree casts,
nay want of understanding, not of ineecsssjr,
or a desire to make it appear.
-* -* - - — ^^"^^
* Mr. Hargrave in his unpublished ' Opiaioa
and Argument as to tbe kight of kdj A*
Howard to the new barony of Stafford, fa
(p. 124. et seq.) has selected wish *esy power*
Jul eflect some instances of lord StusOTin***
aerofaefenais^hssBtew;
mi]
STATE TMAI& 32 Chaiul** 1L 168a— Five Popish lord*.
um
My lords, these gentlemen the Managers of
, the House of Commons, who are great and
able men, some I am sure, if not all of them
very well read, and have understanding in the
law, hare set forth to your lordship* treason in
an horrid shape; but I confess, my lords, if they
had made it never so much worse, it cannot be
SjQ horrid as I have often fancied it myself : For*
my lords, I do, and did ever hold treasou to be*
the. greatest sin in the wojld, and X caanot use
words enough to express it; and therefore I
]»epe you w}U give me leave to clear myself of
k, and I shall give you one, option, of it, which.
I hoard at your lordships bar some years ago,
where you were pleased to War severa) peoSk
of several persuasions give you soine reason whj
liberty of conscience seonjd he allowed them.
And I remember one of them, an Anabaptist*
{ think, did tell ywj. That they held treason.
tp be the sin of witchcraft, and so do I* And
jpext to treason, X hold raesder to, he the worst
aio, But she murder of the king X looked
U£00 to be so above ajj^thers, that it is not Co
fee expressed by words.
My Lords* X have beard very much of a,
tiungthat was named by these gentlemen of
trie House 0/ Commons, and that very properly
too, to, wit, of the Gunpowder Treason. My
lords, X was not born then, bul some years
after X beard, very mucb discourse of it, and
yery various reports ; and I made a particular
enquiry, pechaps mote than, any one person did,
else, bptb of my father who was alive tlpen* and
ipy uncLexaud others; and X am satisfied, and
do clear!* believe, by the. evidence I have re-,
ceived, that that thing called the Gunpowder-
TreasoOa was a, wicked and horrid design
(among the rest) of some of the Jesuits : and I
think to* malice of. the Jesuits, or the wit, of
ipapj capnot offer an excuse foe it, it was so
execrable a thing. Besses, ray lords, I was,
acquainted, with one of them that was con*
ceroed in it, who had bis pardon, and lived
many years after : I discoursed with bira about
it, and he confessed it, and said, he was sorry
for it then.; and I here declare to your lurd-
ajpips, that X never heard, any, one. of the Church,
of Jftome speak a good word of it : it was. sa
bappd a thmg|» lnalt fc cannot be expressed or
focused* Ana. God Almighty, shewed bis jud&
lNFnJts upon them for tuej* wickedness; for
hardly any of the persons, or their posterity^
spa left,, that were concerned in it, and even a
▼.«xy tf;W family, too, that had collaterally
apmetjungtodpinit, is in, the male line extinct
tptftjly.; and X do think God Almighty alemjft
aJiftWs. hi* judgment* upon, such vile . actions. I
£aye been told, all those parens tn*£ were en-
gaged in,, this wicked apt, were all heartily
eprry, for.it, and, repented of it beforeabey died}
vajtbpat which; I am sure (here is.no salvation.
4qo\ therefore, I think it wan not the interest}
9$ rcljgipo, but. a private .interest put, them.
Jjdy X<or4s, ns.t9.the doctrine of rftug-kjljinfr.
syQ.0^ absolving, persons, from their allegiance, I;
4MftMt apjrthe, CJbarc^oX Jfeme,d9£fc n<4.hpH
it; I aerer heard it did hold it; it may be *
does, it may be not: X say not one thing 99
other : but, my lords, there was an English
college of priests at Kbeims, that translated
the bihle, and printed it with authority, accord-
ing to their translation ; and in their annota*
tions upon the l^h; chapter to the Romaaa,
they do declare U*ir dislike and detesiatioe o|
that opinion. TneysAy»all subjects opfht te
obey their kingp, as - the primitive Christian*
did the heathen, princes of the empire ; and the'
learned doctors, of the college at Sorboime, die)
upqn an occasion administeied to thesa about
that opinion* declare the mistakes that were in
ift, and owned it to be a damnable principles
My lords, I have an auAheaiical copy of teea
decree qf the Sorbonnist*, whether 1* he here
er no, I cannot tell— Yee, here it is, which
doea declare that a damnable position ; aad
there is lately, come out a book, written, by s>
priest of the Church of Xfoae, tried for hie
life for being ia the Plot, but aoqukted of ehej>4
in which, he jays, That that opinion of kiltie*
kings is damnable and beueticaJ, aad decjaie*
ao. bV tfce council of Trent.
Mgr X-oeds, this gfres. m* occasion to belie**
that the Church of Rome holds it not I d»
no* say that it does not ; but some pajjticulae
persons aV abhor it,, which are great ia thai
church, arid which, weighs far with me : eat
thaiiwhicb furthermost of all confirms me its
my ill opinion of it, iethe words of our S&vtoua*
wbea not only he commands, us to give uafta*
Casar the things that are Cesar's, but naqrutu
our obedience to. our governors in many othe*
passages of the Holy ScMpture ; and whafc *
find there, the whole world is not able taalter
my opinion, of. I do assure your lordabtps, sjsjs
the presence of Almighty God, that I do, ea~
tremel^ admire when I hear of any- thine life
it; audi did read with great horror what I
found the other day in theGaaeste) of somen**
prudent people in Scotland, and of their wicked
principles and; practices.
M(y lards,. X do in the presence of Altnkbea
God, who knows. and sets all things,, and oil
his angels which, are continually about us, aam
of your lordships who are oay peers and judges^
solemnly ptofess and declare,, that I h*t»aaot
detest any such, opinion, as, I do damnation to>
myself* Audi I, cannot be more desirous, oh
salvation to myself, than I- am cordial in hating
tin's opipion. ,
My, I^pnrts, J know no pereon upon eartb^nen
all the persona in^he world pat together* noc
all the power they have, can in the. lease efr-
soUe m,e of mf ailegiaaea. And I- do, aek aesr<«
ledge' .the kin% is my sovereign, and X ought t»
obey' bun as far as the low* of the. land oblige*
any subject of his. to. obey liimi : whether- h
have taken tbeomhof allegiance* I. appeal, tn»
your lordshipa to be my witnessea; andx iff h
did not take it a thousand times fan mv?aUe-
giance to- the king^.if required, X should think It
deserved % thousaaoS dbath% audi all, the* toe*
meats, ii),tbe> world, for. nefostng ifc.
Mi^I#uw4*>thejft,gaaiteett,heM didbegriti
1359] ST ATfi TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings against the [I860
their Charge (serjeant Maynard, and sir Francis
Winnington) with telling your lordships there
was ao horrid Design to murder the King, to
alter the government, and introduce the popish
religion. This, they say, was engaged in by the
Roman Catholics ; that all the Church of Rome
were the contrivers of it ; for they tell yoar
lordships, the whole body hath been engaged in
it, and they have given von many proofs by wit-
nesses examined the first day, of a general
Plot : what eredit you will give to %them, I
leave to your lordships in the end of the case;
but still they said it was the body of the Roman
Catholics in England, or the papists, or what
they call them, that were the plotters in this
design. But I beseech your lordships, how am
I concerned in it ? for I must say to your lord-
ships, they have not offered one proof that I
am of that religion. So that though any of
you should have seen me at the exercises of
that religion, or otherwise know it of yourselves,
yet if there be no proof* judicially before you,
you are not to take notice of it. I have heard,
if a man be accused of a crime, and be to be
tried, and no evidence corqe in ; if every man
of the jury were sure that the fact was done,
yet they must go upon the evidence produced
to them, and not upon their own knowledge.
So then, no evidence being produced before
your lordships, about my being a papist,
you are not to take me for such a one. But,
my lords, if I were of that church, "and that
were never so well proved too, I hope I have an
advantage in it, that I have kept myself from
being poisoned with so wicked a principle, or
engaged with the rest in so ill a thing.
My Lords, I am here accused of having en-
deavoured to kill the king. I find by the law,
upon reading sir Edward Coke, since my im-
prisonment, That all accusations of Treason
ought to be accompanied with circumstances
antecedent, concomitant, and subsequent; but
I conceive, my Lords, there is no title of any
such thing proved against me. The whole com-
pass of my life, from my infancy, hath been
clear otherwise. In the beginning of the late
unhappy times, the late king, of happy and
glorious memory, did me the hcnour to make
me a peer; a/id thinking that my presence
might rather prejudice him than serve him, my
wife and I settled at Antwerp when the war
begun, where I might have lived, though ob-
scurely, yet safely ; but I was not satisfied in
my conscience to see my king in so much- dis-
order, and I not endeavour *» serve him what
I could, to free him from his troubles. And
I did come into England, and served his ma-
jesty faithfully and loyally, as long as he lived.
And some of your lordships here know whe-
ther I did not wait upon the now king in his
exile, from which he was happily restored;
which shews I had no ill intention then.
My Lords, I hope this I have said does shew,
that my life hath given no countenance to this
accusation, but clear contrary to what these (I
hope I may call them so, and I doubt not to
prove them so) perjured villains say against mt.
6
My Lords, after I had this inisfor tone to be
thus accused, about a month or six weeks after,
your lordships were pleased to send two mem-
bers of this honourable body to me, (I do not
see them at present here) to examine roe aboot
the Plot : (they were my lord of Bridgewater,
and my lord of Essex) if they be here, I appeal
to them what I did say. These two, after they
had examined me, told me, they did believe
and could almost assure me, that if I would
confess my fault, and let them know the par-
ticulars of ir, your lordships would intercede
with the king for my pardon ; but I then, as I
ought, asserted my own innocency. Not long
after, the king, out of his grace and goodness
to me, sent six of the council to the Tower,
to offer me, That though I was never so guilty,
yet if I would confess, I should have my par-
don. I did then consider with myself; I amM
not imagine what ground there was to believe
your lordships could have evidence of wait
there was not, to bring me in Guilty ; ami
thereupon I was so far from being able to make
a discovery, that I could not invent any thing
that might save my life, if I would.
My lords, I was seven days in the conotry
after 1 heard of the Plot ; if I had known
myself guilty, I should surely have run a way.
As I came to London, when I was at IitchfieW,
there met me two of my lords ; they told ne,
and so did a gentleman of the House of Com-
mons, how much there was in the Plot, which,
if I had bad a hand in it, would certainly make
me fly for it. I have ever heard, when a mas
is accused or suspected of a crime, flight ii a
great sign of guilt ; and that it is often asked
of the jury, though there be no certain pofr
tive evidence of the fact, whether a man W
or no ? As that is a sign of guilt, so remainisf
is a sign of innocency. If then after notice I
come to town, and suffer myself to be takes ;
if after imprisonment and accusation, I refine
my pardon, and yet bad been guilty, I ought to
die for my folly as well as my crime.
My Lords, It is a great offence to coram*
treason, and a great addition to continne oh-
ajinate, when upon acknowledgment a man caa
save his life ; nay, my lords, if I should haw
refused these offers, and yet known mys»
guilty, I had at the same time been guflry of
one of the greatest sins in the world, as bejf
the cause of my own death. And as I hw*j
next to treason, murder the greatest sin, »I
hold of all murders self-murder to be the grey-
est ; nay, I do not think any man living ess
pardon that sin of murder. And I do prow*
to your lordships, in the presence of Almfe™*
God, that if I could immediately, by ttedeatt
of this impudent fellow Dugdale, who h™
done me so much wrftng, make myself uw
greatest man in the world that is or ever was,
I profess before God I would not I cannot
say my charity is so great, but that I sh**
be glad to see him suffer those punishment! »J
law can inflict upon him for nis crimes; w»
his death I would not have. BtooH is so £*«
a crime, and I know every man is carefoJw
1*1]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— -Fa* Popish Lords.
[1309
Mug bis voice in the case of blood, I should
he very cautious myself; and if I were a judge,
, I would rather save twenty guilty, than con-
demn one innocent. . I bless God, I have not
the least desire of the death of any man, and
would not for all the world have innocent blood
)it upon me.
I beg your lordships pardon that I have
troubled you thus long : I shall now, as well as
I caji) apply myself to my particular defence.
I do, my lords, before I can go on to it, de-
sire I may have such Depositions as have been
token against me, and the liberty to look upon
your Journal-Book when I have occasion. I
do particularly desire the Depositions of Oates,
upon which I was committed by my lord chief
justice ; the two Depositions of Stephen Dug-
dale, taken at Stafford before two justices of
the peace, Mr. Lane and Mr. Vernon ; I de-
sire the Depositions taken before, I think it was
Mr. Warcup and sir William Poult ney, or some
other two justices, which was made by Turber-
vile ; and then I shall compare their testimo-
nies together, and I hope shall give you a clear
account that they are perjured persons. How
without these to go on to my just defence, I
cannot well tell.
L. H. S. What do you say to it, gentlemen ?
You hear what any lord prays.
Sir F. Win. The witnesses are here, and
have been heard viva voce : as we cannot use
any of the depositions of which be speaks, so
no more can tbey be used by him.
L. H. S. If I understand my lord aright,
this is the thing he desires : says he, You have
brought witnesses against me viva wee ; they
have been examined here, and they have been
examined elsewhere, and their Depositions are
upon record : I desire to confront what tbey
have said here, with what they have said con-
trary in other places.
Serj. Jfoyn. If there be any thing eipressed
by my lord, wberein they have contradicted
themselves, and produce that deposition, he
nay do that ; but to desire to have all the
depositions that have been made by our wit-
nesses, is a strange request. When there is
occasion to ose them upon any particular point,
he may produce them if he can.
L. H. S. Can you object why my lord should
net hare copies of any thing that is upon the
Journal and Depositions that are sworn before
a magistrate, which may be of use to him ?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we do not object
against it ; but, my lords, I think it is out of
time to desire it. What was sworn, and is en-
tered in your lordships Journal, was sworn
above two years since. My lord, or any man
else, might repair to them ; they are matters of
reenrd, and for aught we know were never de-
nies to any, especially if they desired it in the
House; but after two years time, and after
three weeks time given to prepare for this trial,
when my lord could not but know what wit-
nesses would be examined before your lord-
for him to come now and desire such
web depoeitioM may be produced, which
VOL. VII.
| if by law he might be allowed to do, he might
have done before, is to no other purpose, under
favour, but to gain time, and cause our evidence
to be forgotten ; and therefore we most humbly
pray it may not be admitted : My lords, I think
it is an unusual thing. My lords the judges,
are near your lordships, I suppose they will
inform your lordships. If a man be tried at
the assizes, for him to desire a copy j>f the in-
formations remaining in court, by which he
may except against the witnesses, i% what the
court does not use to grant. But if your lord-
ships proceedings vary from the common pro-
ceedings of other courts, then I resort to what
I said before, Whether your lordships will
think this a proper time, when he might have
had it in the parliament that was first dissolved,
and then in the parliament that was last dis-
solved. Now to desire those copies at this
time, is to put off the cause for that which
perhaps he cannot be furnished with in a day
or two.
Sir F. Win. I would add but one word, if
your lordship please to give me jeave. My
lords, you have the learned Judges near you,
who will inform you, whether ever, when a man
was accused of a capital offence, and the Evi-
dence against him had been fully heard by
the court and by himself, he was admitted- to
require from the prosecutors the copies of exa-
minations formerly taken before other persons*
Docs my lord intend to have time to peruse
those examinations, and to have the copies of
them, that he may consult in private with his
counsel to find out exceptions, and with his
witnesses to make them good ? My lords, I
must say, that in my short experience (and I
have attended a considerable time upon the
greatest court for trial of offenders), I never
heard such a thing asked by a prisoner, either
at the bar of the King's-beuch, or at the assizes.
I speak with all the tenderness imaginable, be-
cause we are in a matter of blood, and God
forbid but the lord at the bar should have true
and equal justice done him ! but if I take my
lord right, this seems but an artifice to delay
the trial, of which it is our duty to be very cau-
tious. Indeed I have seen the judges, upon
trial of a criminal, call for the Depositions or
Informations from the clerk, or the justice of
the peace who. took them, and caused them to
be read ; but for a prisoner to call for exami-
nations at the bar from the prosecutors, et at
debila justitia, to demand them, is a thing,
which, as it never has been, so I think will not
be admitted at this time, especially when we
are now almost at the end of the cause. And
with all modesty and submission to your lord-
ships, I look upon it as a \try strange and un-
reasonable demand.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, what is the reason
your lordship had not all this while copies of
the Journal, which is that you now ask ?
L.Staf. I shall not undertake that I am
able to give your lordships a reason for it, be-
cause I think, wherein I have been mistaken 99
to point of time, your lordships will not tie me
4S
1S69] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charlbi
Bp to that. But this gentleman that spoke last
is not acquainted with me, and does not know
me ; for I have no desire to go back, or to put
off this trial : But if it cannot be done to day, I
am as guilty to-morrow as I am to day ; and I
desire no more than what be says hatb been
done in the like cases. I do desire, my lord,
the Informations and Depositions of Dugdale,
Oates* and Turbervile may be produced and
read,, and I wilj make observations upon them
in my defence. I desire those affidavits may
be brought.
X. H. S. Affidavits taken when and where ?
L. Staff. Of Dr. Oates, that was read in your
lordships house; I heard it.
X. H. S. Let us understand your lordship's
demands, that when my lords are withdrawn, I
may know what questions to put to them, and
acquaint them with your desires: The one is
the Journal of the Lords House, which is always
before their lordships, and you might have had
copies long since, The next thing you ask is
an affidavit of Dugdale ; if this affidavit is en-
tered into the Journal, that supplies your de-
mands ; if it be not entered there, where shall
we find it ?
L. Staff. I do not know.
X. H. S. Does your lordship think all this
matter must stay till we can find a loose affi-
davit, that we know not where it is filed r
L. Staff, I know it was before the council,
and I believe my accusers have it ; I desire the '
gentlemen of the House of Commons may pro-
duce it.
Sir J. Trevor. I have seen none, nor have
none.
L. Staff. The one was taken the 24th of
December this time two year, and the other the
29 th.
X. H. S. My lord, Will your lordship give
me leave to tell you, you ought to be provided
with some particular exception, and not to
make your demand in general. If your lord-
ship will say, Dugdale did swear such and snch
things, which are contrary to what he bow af-
firms, we know what to make of it; but to hunt
after an affidavit that we know not where to
find, to pick up something out of it, that I do
not understand.
L. Staff. I appeal to my lord Essex, and my
lord Pridgewater, whether they did not examine
me the first time upon one or two affidavits of
Dugdale.
L. H. S. Suppose it be not to be found, my
lord ?
L. Staff. Then I must have patience, and
•ubmit.
X. H. S. Can you tell wherein he swore
quite blank contrary to what be swears now ?
L. Staff. My lord, I conceive it was never
denied before ; but your lordships may do what
you please.
X. H. S. Well, my lord, let us go on to the
next. The affidavits of Dugdale, if they be
entered on the Journal, may be ready ; if not,
then I shall acquaint their lordships, and they
will direct what is fit in the case.
'Proceeding*
[1364
L. Staff Then there is the affidavit of Oate*
before my lord chief justice, upon which I was
committed ; the next day, which was Friday, h
was read in your lordships boose.
X. H. S. I believe that it is entered upon the)
Journal, and so will be ready to be used.
L. Staff. I do hope to make' it evidently ap-
pear thereby, that he is forsworn. I desire two
affidavits more, that were takea before the jus-
tices of the peace of Middlesex, who examined
Mr. Turbervile twice.
X. If. S. What justices of the peace ?
L. Staff. Mr. Warcup, sir William Ponltney,
and sir Thomas Stringer. I desire I may not
be misunderstood ; I do not desire to have
them to instruct my counsel, or advise with
them upon tbem, but I cannot make my de-
fence without them.
X. H. S. Those are voluntary extrajudicial
affidavits, that no body is bound to keep.
L. Staff. They were spoken of in the votes of
the House of Commons.
X. H. S. What say you, gentlemen, to it?
Sir F. Win. My lords, because my lord at
the bar is pleased to insinuate, as if we knew
where those affidavits are which he seems to
desire, and because your lordship was pleased
to say, that the Commons in parliament are the
grand -jury of the kingdom, I desire to say one
thing, That certainly it will not be required
from us to produce and publish the several facts
and circumstances that induced us to impeach
him, if it shall be demanded by the prisoner at
the bar.
X. H. S. I wish you would answer the ques-
tion, and not argue upon it whether those affi-
davits of Turbervile may not be produced ; for
it is my lord's exception against your witness,
that he swears several ways; and by those affi-
davits of Turbervile, he intends to disprove him
in what he hath said to-day.
Sir F. Win. My lords, The House of Com-
mons never administer an oath; and therefore
it is not to be said to us, but my lord Stafford
must go to the particular offices where they are
to be found.
X. H. S. I do not ask you where my lord
should find them, but whether if they can be
found, you can object any thing why they
should not be produced and read ?
Serj. Mayn. When they are produced, we
will give answer.
L. Staff. My lords, I am informed this is the
substance of the affidavit, That Turbervile did
swear before two justices of peace, whether
they be of the House of Commons, or no, I
cannot tell, That he spake with me at Doway,
and in Paris, in the years 1673 and 1676, and
now he says 1678 and 1675, 1 am informed,
my Lords : and I appeal to the House of Com-
mons, they are ail persons of . honour and
worth, (if my information be mistaken, I beg
their pardon and yours for it) whether he did
not mend it after he had sworn it.
X. H. 8. Are these all you do demand ?
L. Staff. Yes, m v lords. Whether this
true or no, I do not know; it is what I have 1
*«*]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL mO.—Fhx ltyish Lords.
[\c<m
told; I appeal to the House of Commons, (who
are all worthy persons, I do not believe I have
an eoemy among them,) they know whether I
apeak true or no.
Z. H.S. When will your lordship be ready
to make your defence f"
L. Staff. As soon as ever I have them, I will
not stay a minute, a moment, an instant; I de-
sire not to shew my counsel, nor any one, for
my trial is a thing that I have long desired ;
therefore I would not be mistaken, as if I
would put off the cause. I am innocent, and
shall be so while I live, and hope I shall make
it appear so. 1 beg, if this be a matter of law,
whether I may have them or not, that my coun-
sel be heard to it.
L. H. S. This is a matter of fact.
L. Staff I insist upon it as things without
, which 1 cannot make my defence : I am inno-
cent, and I suppose not one of the House of
Commons, nor one of your lordships, will debar
nie of that by which I may make my innocency
appear.
JL, H. S. You cannot know my Lords plea-
sure till they are withdrawn.
Sir W. Jones. Before your lordships with-
draw, I hope you will please to hear us a few
words, which we think may be for the service
of this court. My lords, what evidence is be-
fore your lordships, it is in your lordships plea-
sure what of that you shall please to communi-
cate to my lord Stafford ; but for this evidence
he speaks of, as remaining in our hands, and
which be takes upon himself to appeal to us for,
admits of another consideration. My lords, if
we .were conscious of any thing in these Affi-
davits that were for my lord's advantage, and
knew where they were, we would readily pro-
duce them; but for myself, I must answer, and
I think my companions will say so too, that we
do not know where these affidavits are, nor of
any variation in those affidavits from what is
now sworn; but whatever they were, they were
taken for the information of the House of
Commons, who are the prosecutors in this cause,
and who are no judges. Now, if my lord will
bring any witness that will say this witness of
oars did before a justice of peace 'depose so and
so, and says the contrary now, there might be
then just reasons to look after these affidavits,
and to have them produced ; but upon a bare
imagination that there is a variance, * here in
truth there is none, and* the truth may other-
wise be known; to desire that these affida-
vits that never were before you should he pro-
duced, whether such a suggestion is to be ad-
mitted, I humbly submit to your lordships con-
sideration.
L. Staff. My lords, if these gentlemen that
are the managers for the House of Commons
will aver to your lordships, that there is no va-
riation in them, I will submit to them, and be
quiet; if they will say it was not debated in
the House, whether he should amend or no,
X. H. $. Look you, he puts it upon you so
far, gentlemen, that if you will take it upon
yon to aver that there is do variation between
those affidavits upon which you grounded your
Impeachment, and the evidence you have given
upon the trial of your impeachment, lie will
not give you the trouble.
L. Staff. I beseech you, let me say one word-:
My lords, I have been thus long a prisoner; I
was as far from being proceeded against now, as
any ef the rest of the* lords in the Tower, till
Turbervile came in with his discovery; and I
believe I am now called the sooner (which I
am glad of, and I gave the gentlemen thanks for
it) upon the affidavit of Turbervile ; I desire
that affidavit. And though it be true, the
House of Commons give no oath, yet they ap-
pointed two members of the House, that were
justices of the peace of Middlesex, to take it
upon oath, and he desired the neit day to
amend it ; and I put myself upon them, whe-
ther this be not true.
L. H. S. What say you, Sir, to it?
Sir W. Jones, My lord, I cannot answer, be-
cause I do not hear.
L. Staff. My lords, I say this, I do observe
that Mr. Turbervile (whose face I never saw in
my life that I know of, till to-day, nor never
spoke a word to him, and I shaH prove that no
servant that ever I had see him) did depose (for
the purpose) to-day, that he was in the yean
1673 and 1676, in such and such places, and
that he did speak with me at Doway and Paris;
and to-morrow recollecting his Notes, he found
he was mistaken in his affidavit that he had
made before* and desired to mend it, and
brought it to the years 1672 and 1675 : There
was some debate in the House about it, whe-
ther they should permit him to mend it : I ap-
peal to all the gentlemen whether it were not
so*
L. H. S. Your labour is to have two affida-
vits; that you do presume will do your business
in order to the fio#ing out a variety of time of
his being at Doway or at Paris: That which
does press your lordship we know in Turber-
vile's evidence is. That at Paris, in the room
below your lodging, you encouraged him te
kill the king, and you were to have met him
at Diep to know his mind, but you came
not, and he went away; if you have it in the
affidavit quite couirary to this, you say some*
what.
L. Staff. My lords, I beseech you, it presses
me and every man in England, not to be run
down by a fellow that forswears himself: for
him to swear one thing to-day, and another
thing to-morrow, is perjury.
L. H. 3. What say you to it, gentlemen?
Sir W. Jones. What was done in the House
of Commons, it does not become any of us that
are members to disclose; but 1 .have beard,
and will admit it, that in the Depositions the
witness made before a justice of the peace,
there was a year put down, which he going
home, and upon sight of letters and papers
finding it to be roistakeo, he comes the next
day, and desires to alter it : If this be for my
lord's service, we shall grant it.
L. JL S. What say you, my lord, now /
13G7] STATE TRIALS, S2 Cuasles II. 16&0.—Proctedi*gt again* the [1861
L. Staff. I do say, my lord, I am informed
by what I have beard cursorily, (for I have doc
seen one of the House of Commons before cbe
day of my trial) thai though in his second Depo-
sition he named the years i6f 2 and 1675, yet I
can prove him perjured as to what he hath
sworn here to day.
X. H. S. Since it is insisted upon, gentle-
men, that there is a variety in the last deposi-
tion from what lie swore at first, what can you
say why he should not have the avail of his
Exception ?
Sir IV. Jones. My lords, whether your lord-
ships will thi.ik fit to consider by what ways and
means the House of Commons informed them-
selves in order to Impeachments, I submit to
you ; and for those things that still remain in
the hands of the Commons, I suppose you will
be pleased to consider how you can send for
them to inform you : We would not be mis-
taken in (he matter ; let not anyone that hears
us think that we are conscious there is the
least variation ; nav, we are confident, if the
thing were produced, it would turn to my
lord's prejudice ; hut what is done in this case
may be a precedent for the future, and there-
fore we cannot, without resorting to the Hou«>e,
consent to deliver any thing the House took for
their information. Therefore if your lordships
stand upon it, and incline to have it done, we
must resort to the House to ask their leave,
whether we shall do it or no.
L. U. S. I cannot tell what ray lords will
incline ro do ; but I deb ire, when you are gone
back, you will consider how far it will make the
matter easy to ray lord.
Sir Wm. Jones. My lords, we can give no
answer to that till we have attended our
House.
Ser. Maynard. I desire your lordships to
consider what a piece of conning he hath put
upon both Houses, to pass by his vilifying our
witnesses, which I may say was not comely.
But if he makes any question, it must be put
to the Houses upon supposition to be a ques-
tion, and so he would bring things to this issue
to put off the cau<e for ro day. He ought to
put that which might probably be something of
a question. Let him instance in particulars,
and make out his evidence, not feign things to
put off the cause ; for aught I see it is to no
other end, and it is a Jesuitical trick, I think.
h. Sfaff I fVign nothing ; I have been told
tbis that I speak here, and I desire it may be
proved.
L. H. S. If you are bound up so that you
cannot consent, I cannot help it.
Serj. Maynard. Let him put the fact, my
lords, and not suppose and imagine things, and
then raise questions.
L H. S. It is usual in these cases for the
gentlemen of the house of Commons to stay
till the lords are .withdrawn, and expect their
lordships resolution ; perhaps they may so
order it that yon need not go back.
8ir W. Jones. I desire before yoor lordships
withdraw, that it may be token notice of by
your lordships, that for the variation of tat
year, we do admit it. My lord is not pkasei
to mention any other particular matter of the
affidavit, but only says in general, that it is cot*
trtry to what he says to day : It my lord
would tell us wherein, perhaps we shoaM si*
mit it, or answer it, or take it into further 'Aa-
side ration. But to make so general an sltefSf
tion, and give your lordships no particular at*
count, we submit whether such a suggestion
ought to be regarded.
L. H. S. Is there any further variation ; be-
sides the variation of the year ?
L. Staff. I cannot say there it, my lord, I do
not know it ; but I do really believe in mj
conscience there is, from what 1 have henid;
but however, I insist upon it, and demand
your judgment.
Sir Fr. Win. My lords, I humbly desire on
word as to the objection that hath been mads,
that he hath prayed your lordships to fcrairt bss
the sight of such and such papers. The netart
of this cause, my lords, we know is such, that
there was never the like number of pawn
known, as to the general plot; aud mywd
that is the prisoner at the bar, may as well de-
mand to-morrow such a particular paper, and
the next day another, that he hath beard ot in tie
general plot; and where will the end of this be?
So that if the thing be granted upon the varia-
tion of the time that it was immediately recti-
fied, and he cannot produce any grouadi Iks!
may satisfy your lordships why be should ban
that paper, you may as well suffer him to de-
mand any other paper after, and wo never end
the c:>use.
L. H. S. Your lordship hath been told, sad
you shall find it, that you shall have as fairaM
equal an hearing as is possible, and nothing
shall be denied you that is just and reasontw
to save your life, or make your defence, ft*
pray, my lord, for so much as is upon the
Journal, which you may resort unto, you may
easily know what answer my lords will give w
that; but for this other thing, if it be only the
variety you alledge of the time and the year,
and you do desire it to look: for other excep-
tions, and you pray the help of the Lords to see
such a paper, that you may make enqoiry after
other varieties, do you think theyare to help
you to find out exceptions to the witnesses?
L. Staff I do not desire their lordships to
help me to find out "Except ions ; but 1 hare
told your lordships of one Exception to the
Affidavit, which these gentlemen ackoowleop
to be true ; and the other Affidavit is, that he
swears I spoke to him at Doway m the yesf
1672 or 1673, which lean disprove; and tbes
I say, he swearing several things false he is no
credible witness.
L. H. S. It is admitted to your lordship "**
he did mistake the time. _,
L. Staff It is admitted that he said hesp°«
to me at Doway. '
X. H. 8. How very easy a matter were it »
expedite tbis process, by allowing the pnKtftf
bis demand ra this particular !
IKt] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chahlbs H. mo.~ Ft* Popish ttrdr.
[13T0
Sir W. Jenes. I never saw it, and a ffeat
many of tbe managers say they never saw it.
L. Staff. These gentlemen say, I did it to put
off tbe cause. I am la r from it ; for though I
am in a condition very unfit to manage my de-
fence, faint and weak with speaking so long
and hardly able to «f>eak any more, yet I
deaire to finish this night*, and if 1 see
it now, it will be enough, I shall not desire to
hare a copy to advise with my counsel or any
body else.
A. H. 8. Pray, gentlemen of the. House of
Commons, will you observe, my lord, as weary
a* he is, would make an end of the matter pre-
sently, it you would but send for the Affidavit.
Mr. Foley. My lords, it is not in our hands
here ; if the House of Commons will order it,
it may be done ; we cannot order it ourselves.
Mr. Fowle. My lords, this is a paper that does
properly belong to the House ; and I do think
that none of us here that are managers for this
Trial, wilt undertake it sin II be delivered, with-
out resorting to the Hou*e for their opinion :
for though I do verdy believe, and am fully
persuaded, that what this noble lord at the bar
does object, will not appear to be so ; for 1
think there is not any thing, of ray lord Stafford's
•peaking with this mtne^s at Doway mentioned
therein ; yet how far the precedents of this may
reach in other case, I think is worthy the conside-
ration of the House. And we cannot presume
to offer any thing in it ro your lordships, until
yon be pleased to give us leave to go and resort
thither.
Then the Lords withdrew, and after an hour
and an half's space returned, and Proclamation
was made for silence.
i. H. S. My lord viscount Stafford, my Lords
have considered of the demands you made, and
my Lords, upon the debate of the reasons of
your demands, are come to this Resolution :
your lordship did demand in the fir ft place,
that you might have a sight of the Journal, and
have the Papers lodged in the House of Peers:
my Lords take notice that this demand which
your lordship now makes, is a demand that was
granted you long ago, about two years since ;
you have an Order entered upon the Books,
that your lordship should have copies of every
thing in that House ; and if your lordship have
not taken out copies, and if any thing is missing
to your lordship that is yet there extant, it is
your lordships fault. However, my lords will
command their Journals to be brought hither,
that your lordship may make that use of them
that may be of most profit to you. For the
other demand touching the Affidavit supposed
to be taken from Turbervile by the justices of
the pence, that my lords, upon consideration
had, do find that there is no obligation at all
upon them as a court, to concern themselves
in that matter. And therefore my lords have
made no Order in that point, but your lordship
fenust come provided as well as you can, and
the court can do no more to help you in it.
For the rest, my Lords did take notice that your
lordship said before they were withdraw*, that
yon found yourself very faint and weary,
and that you were much spent in discourse
and tired with what already you have done.
My Lords are extremely willing to give your
lordship all the favour and accommodation pos-
sible, for the recollecting yourself; tberelore
my lords will not now put yoo upon it, to go
on to make your Defence, but will give you time
till to-morrow. »
L. Staff. I humbly give your lordships thanks
for your kindness and favour tome; but here I
profess, and call Almighty God to witness, ra-
ther than I would have it thought I am willing
to pot it off, I would have sank down dead at
the bar. But, my lords, there was another de-
mand that I made : Your lordships Say, I shall
have copies of all the Journals, and that you
cannot help me to the Affidavit of Turberville.
I submit to it without saying one word more :
But I desire that I may have brought hither
to-morrow the Journals, and other Papers in
the Lords house; but T desire also the two
Affidavits of Dugdale, taken the one on the
24th, the other the 90th of December following,
which Depositions were taken before Mr. Lane
and Mr. Vernon, in Stafford town, when Dug-
dale was in prison.
L. H. S. Look you, inv lord, this is all under
the same rule : What evidence soever there is
before the Court of Peers, that you shall have;
whatsoever evidence is not in that court, you
ought to come provided of: The Court is not to
stay, nor to help you to evidence.
L. Staff, My lord, I beg your pardon, Dug-
dale made an Affidavit then, and says the clean
contrary now ; I desire nothing but justice, and
I am sure I shall have all justice from your
lordships.
L. H. 5. Produce it; alledge what you will
for yourself, it shall be heard.
L. Staff. How then shall I be able to make
my Defence if I have not those Papers, which
I humbly conceive by the law ought to be
brought? These gentlemen of the House of
Commons say, that I could not have Turber-
vile's Affidavit, because it was in the House,
and they could not give it without consent of
the House; but this was examined before a
justice of peace, and returned to the council:
>ure I shall have that. I was examined by
my lord of Essex, and my lord of Bridgewater,
upon that Affidavit twice, I think, therefore,
that is material and necessary; and I know
your lordships would not have me come to de-
fend myself w ithout weapons.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, I do beseech your
lordship to be a little better informed in your
own business. You have leave to make use of
the Journal, and all papers that are entered
there ; the clerks say, Dugdale's Oath is enter-
ed there.
L. Staff. Is the 24th of December there?
Clerk. It is there.
X. H. S. Pray, my lord, do not put the
Court upon interrogatories, but come provided*
as well as you can.
1871 ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. If380«— Proceedings against ike [[tf%
L. Staff. If it be entered on Cbe Journal-
Book, I desire not tbe original, I am very well
satisfied.
X. H. S. Will yon be ready to go on to-
morrow, my lord ?
L. Staff. I will with all my heart.
X. H. S. It is too late, Gentlemen, to go on
to-night ; we must adjourn till to-morrow.
L. Staff My lords, 1 had so much to write
'last night, that I had very little sleep ; I desire
I may not come till 10.
X. H. S. My lord, I am not able to hear you;
I take as much pains to come near you as I can.
L. Staff. I had a great deal to write lust
night, I say, and I want some sleep ; I desire I
may not come till 10.
X. H. S. Will you be ready by 10 o'clock to-
morrow.
L. Staff I will be ready by ten.
X. U. S. I will move my lords when they are
withdrawn, to adjourn till 10 to-morrow. But,
my lord Stafford, I do not know how your lord-
ship is provided, or how you look after your
own business. If you have not had copies of
the Journal all this while, it is you are in the
fault. A great deal of it is in print, you may
send your Solicitor to the clerk of the parlia-
ment, and take copies of what you have need
of. I give you notice of it, that if you come
unprovided, you .may know it is your own fault.
L. Staff 1 do acknowledge I have copies of
the Journal-Book, I think of all ; but I do not
find any thing, of Dugd ale's second Deposition
there.
X. H. S. Here is that of the 24th of Decem-
ber, that you ask after ; send your Solicitor, and
then you shall have a copy out of the Journal
of it.
L. Staff I assure your lordship I will be
ready to-morrow, if I can pet those copies.
~ X. H. S. My lords will give you us much ease,
and all the accommodations that are fit.
L. Staff Then to-morrow I will be ready by
10 o'clock if your lordships please; only 1
would desire your lordships to take notice, that
these gentlemen of the House of Commons do
acknowledge that Turberville swore one day to
one year, and the next day to another.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, you say you can
be ready to-morrow at 10 o'clock ; are you sure
you can be ready then ?
L. Staff. I say, my lords, this, I shall not be
SO ready as I shall be next day ; but I assure
your lordships, I will rather sink down in the
place where I am, if you thipk fit, then put off
the trial.
X. H. S. Look you, gentlemen of the House
of Commons, in a case of this consequence,
and of this vital importance to a man as this is,
where is the inconvenience if there should be a
day's respite, and the Court should adjourn till
Friday, if my Lords be moved in it ? I make no
direction, but what inconvenience will be in it?
Will it not be every way as well ?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, your lordships do
not expect from us to give our consent to put
off the trial.
X. H. S. I ask only, what incooveniewaeit
is? .
Sir W. Jones. Your lordships are the judgo,
and will do as you find it reasonable; but tea
I say, it is very unusual, and scarce to be pit*
cedented, that when the prosecutors have gira
an evidence, the prisoner should have time, s
furtiter considerable time, to give bis Answer
to it. The prisoner knows before-hand 1st
general scope and drift of the evidence; (.here-
fore for him to have time till to-morrow, is i
favour ; but to have more than that, even i
whole day to intervene, is very unusual.
X. H. S. If that be all, and the matter dV
f>end upon what is usual, I do venture with an;
ords leave to inform you, that my lord of Staf-
ford had two days time after the pro»ecBtwo,
to give his answer to what was said agaiwt
him.
Sir W.Jones. That was an evidence of 28
Articles, this but upon two heads; and that
was after a long examination of many dan.
L. Staff. My lords, I had prepared nayself
for my trial as well as I could, and written
down a few things that I intended to saj; sod
I profess before God, as I am a man, and as I
am a Christian, of all I intended to say: I
have in a manner made use of very few words,
but as to what I had to say upon evidence, I
was forced to lay all aside, because I wanted
these papers. 1 have not eaten to-daj, sad
being forced to lay aside all that I had written,
I shall need a whole day to write ; however,
I submit myself to your lordships in that matter.
X. H. S. My lord, if it will be equal to
your lordship, and your lordship will be as
ready to-morrow as "another day, this Court
will be more ready.
L. Staff. I assure your lordships, if your
lordships do {give me another day, I will not de-
bate with my counsel any one thing upon tbe
papers I liave asked.
X. H. S. Pray, my lord, will you be pleated
to make your demand to my lords, who are
your judged, by what time you will he contest
to be foreclosed.
L. Staff My lords, if you will give me ull
Friday, I shall be ready to give my evideoce,
and I will bring witnesses sufficient, I hope, to
prove my innocency.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we do not presume
at all to offer our consent to what time the
Court shall be adjourned
X. H. S.' No, we do not ask your consent
Sir W. Jones. And I hope your lordships will
not ask the prisoner's consent, nor do it by his
direction.
X. H. S. ' De morte hominis oon est coac*
* tatio longa.'
Sir W. Jones. But we must desire your lord*
ships, as we are entrusted by the House of
Commons to manage this Trial, to take notice,
that as we do not expect your lordships should
take the measures from our desires, much le»
do we expect you should do it at the onlj in-
stance of tbe prisoner* It is a great advantage
to this lord to chuse his own time, when he will
2373) STATE TRIALS, 3* Charles II. 1 680.-1%* Popish Lords. [1374
please to, answer our Evidence. We do know
Yery well, that in this case there have been at-
tempts to suborn witnesses, and that we shall
prove in due time, and attempts to destroy
witnesses too; so that there hath been too
much time lost already, and I think to-morrow
it a very convenient time for him to make his
answer. And I must observe to your lordships,
that the prisoner hath gained his end of not
making hi9 Answer this day, by raising an ob-
jection, which in my thoughts carried no great
weight in it ; though when it was made, your
lordships were pleased to adjourn upon it : But
seeing he hath got his point of deferring the
making answer till to-morrow, there can be
no reason he should gain a further day, since
the Depositions may be ready by to-morrow as
welt as by the next day. And therefore we
desire your lordships will be pleased to go on
in the trial to-morrow.
X. H. S. You shall know their lordships
pleasure when they are withdrawn. Is it yeur
lordships pleasure lhat we should adjourn ?
Lord$. %Ay, ay.
X. H. S. This House is adjourned into the
Parliament-Chamber.
So the Lords withdrew iu their order, and the
Commons went back to their House, and Mr.
Speaker resumed the chair.
A Message was sent from the Lords by sir
Timothy Bahtwyn, and sir Samuel Clark.
44 Mr. Speaker, the Lords have sent us to
acquaint this House, that they have ordered
the prisoner, William viscount Stafford to be
brought to the bar in Westminster-ball, to-
morrow morning at ten o'clock/'
And then the Commons adjourned to eight
o'clock next morning.
The Third Day.
Thursday, December % 1680.
At the hour of ten in the morning, the Lords
adjourned into Westminster- hall, and returned
in their former order into the Court there
erected ; and Mr. Speaker having left the chair,
the Commons were seated as before. The
Court being sat, proclamation for silence was
made, and the Lieutenant of the Tower com-
manded to bring his prisoner to the bar; which
being done, the Lord High Steward spake to
him as followeth :
X. H. 8. My lord Stafford, this is the time
appointed to hear what your lordship hath to
say in your defence, and to call your wit-
Sir W. Jones. My lords, yesterday my lord
viscount Stafford was pleased to make mention
of an Affidavit of Mr. Turbervile, taken before
two justices of the peace, wherein he was
pleased to say there was some amendment
made ; and so indeed we did chen acknowledge
there was. But be had a desire to see it, not-
withstanding our acknowledgement, because he
was informed that that which Turbervile swore
then, differed from what Turbervile swore yes-
terday. My* lords, at that time we had not the
Affidavit ; nor was it proper for ns to produce
it, for indeed it remained in the Justice of
Peace's bands that took it : Bat now that his
lordship may have full satisfaction, and not
only his lordship, but also all that are present
at this Trial, I do inform his lordship, that the
Affidavit is in the bands of a member of the
House of Commons, sir William Poultney by
name ; and if his lordship please, he may have
it produced, and make what use he can of it.
X. H. 8. It is extreme honourably and wor-
thily doue of the House of Commons ; and
my lord hath no manner of exception left him.
X. Staff. My Lords, if T shall have occasion
to use it, I shall call for it; but I would first
say something to your lordships : My lords, I
first give your lordships thanks for granting me '
the liberty to come so late to-day ; I have had
a little sleep upon it. Your lordships heard
yesterday, when you had Dr. Oates at the bar,
the first thing that he said, as I remember, was
to desire you would be pleased to leave him to
his own method : I beg of your lordships the
same favour, that I may begin with the one or
the other witnesses, or with matter of law, as I
please.
X. J7. S. God forbid but you should take
your own method in your defence.
L. Staff. In order to which, I desire first Mr. '
Turbervile may come to the bar.
X. H. S. Do you call Turbervile, my lord f
L. Staff. Yes, my lord, I do.
X. H. S. He is there, what say you to him.
L. Staff. My lords, I will ask him but one
question, and I hope I shall have occasion to
ask him no more : When was the last time
that he spoke with me ?
X. H. 8. Mr. Turbervile, I think I hear right,
I do not know : My lord Stafford asks, when
was the last time you spoke with his lordship ?
Mr. Tur. It was in November, 1675.
L. Staff. I have very much to say against his
evidence ; but I hope your lordships will not
think him any evidence at all against me, or
any body else. But I desire your judgment, '
whether I be not within the compass of the
time limited by the statute.
Serj. Mayn, Express yourself, my lord, for
we do not understand you.
L. Staff. I cannot say more than I do : The
time which the statute limits, is six months,
but this is five years ; I desire this statute may
be read.
X. H. 8. What statute, my lord ?
L. Staff. The statute of the 13th of this kins.
X. H. 8. If your lordship pleases you shall
have it read : But your lordship does not ob-
serve, you are prosecuted and impeached of
High-Treason upon the statute of the 95th
Edw. 3. not upon the statute of the 13th of
this king, made for the safety of the king's per-
son, which limits the prosecution of some of-
fences to be within six months ; but the pro-
secution for treason may be at any time.
L. Staff. Does your lordship say it may be at
any time ?
'1
1971) STATE TB1MS, 9H Chakvbs
I. B. S. Yes, »y lord.
Iy. 5^a/fl This truly docs wy much surprise
. mt, though 1 am wholly igoucaiu in matters
of law. My lords, I have ever heard that
no man can be prosecuted by that statute, but
w&hin so many days., io one part of it in thirty
4ays9 io another ui months ; and I desire your
lordships that the statute may be read.
1. #. & If yon/ lordships please the statute
•bull be read ; if your lordship desires the
clause of the statute of the 13th of this king,
vibicb limits the prosecution to be within six
months, that shall be read. But I conceive
your lordship is not accused upon that statute.
I,. Staff. I beseech your lordthipt I may
know whether I am prosecuted upon the sta-
tute of the 13ib of this king, or upon what
other stutute.
L. U- S. What say the worthy gentlemen of
the House of Commons : Is my lord prose-
cuted upon the statute of the 13th of this
kjug?
Serj. Maynari. Not at all, my lord ; he is not
prosecuted upon that statute, but upon the
common law, and the 95th of Edw. 3. which
was only declarative of the common law.
L. Staff. This is a point of law.
Sir W. Jones . What is the point of law ?
L Staff. Whether I can be prosecuted after
somany days.
L U.S. The law is very clear. If you were
{>ro*ecuted upon the 13th of this king for any
ess offence than treason, you could not he pro-
secuted after six mouths ; but if you be pro-
secuted for treason either upon the 35th of
Edw. 3. or the 13th of Car. 2. there is no
time limited, and God forbid there should.
L. Staff. I beseech your lordships judgment
whether there be not a statute, I think it is in
the reign of Edward 6. that sets the time, after
which no man shall be prosecuted' for any thing
of treason. I desire . a quarter of an hour's
time to look into the statute.
X. JT. 5. What say you, gentlemen ?
l. Staff'. Pray my lord, let me read the sta-
tute ot Edward 6. '
Serj. Jtfaymard. We know not of any such
statute.
JL Staff. I will not say there is, but I will
say I cannot read if there be not.
l>. {£. $. Pray, gentlemen of the House of
C amnions, my lord does suppose he 1ms some
kind of objection in law to mike, which he
cannot make out of himself; will it he amiss to
let his counsel tuake and propose the question
lor him ?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we rather would
have idv lord propose the objection ; for your
lordships know tiJI a rq alter ol law is proposed,
he cannot he admitted to have counsel. If he
desires time to recollect himself about the ob-
jection, **e can't oppose it. But we desire thai
he may propose the objection ; and after, if'
it be any d >ubt in master of law, your lord-
ships will assign him counsel to be heard to
speak to it,
Sir P. Win. This would be a way for a pri-
sonex to have the advantage of couascl,
they ought not to be allowed it ; for it is hat to
say, he hath some doubt which he cannot po»
pose himself, and so let in his counsel to mist
objections for him. If any question of law 4a
arise, and that question is seated, you will sitae
the prisoner counsel to argue it : fiat at tsa
rate be may make the like pretences io eiar?
part of bis defence, and so obtain that com?
sel shall manage bis whole defence for him.
X. Zf. & I suppose my lord does intewi at
objection as to the time of the prosecution, tat
he does not know how to make it. He«s»
poses, he is prosecuted after the sis wmU,
which be thinks is the time limited for da
prosecution. But I pray, my lord Stafbr^
will your lordship take time to recollect yw
self, and make an objection fit for couaielts
be heard upou, and you bhall have it.
L. Staff. I beseech you I may have the its*
tute-book with me, for I have none myself, or
lord.
Sir W. Jones. With all our hearts, we e* sot
oppose it.
Then my lord withdrew into the room provi-
ded for him, and within a quarter of an boor re-
turned.
L. H. S. Say, my lord.
L. Staff My lords, I do confess I hare bees
very much mistaken ever since I was ant com-
mitted to the Tower : For I did conceive that
they would have proceeded, as I thought 1 •■
impeached, upon the statute of the 13th sf
this king. I humbly desire your Lordships
judgment, whether I ought or no to be pww-
cuted upon that statute ?
L. H. & The gentlemen have told joy al-
ready : They prosecuted you upon the stttttt
of 95 Ed. 3. and upon the common law.
L. Staff. And they lay aside that statute.
L. H. S, What statute?
L. Staff The 13th of this king.
X. B. S. What say you, gentlemen, oooi
more?
Sir Fr. Win. My lords, we have declsiet
already to his lordship; and if my lord ft***
looked well upon theArticles of Imfeaceoie*
he could not have put that question, but wosU
have found himself impeached* for treasusst
the common law, declared by the 25th Edf. 5.
Ld. Staff. So then they lay that aside efu*
ISth of this king?
Seijennt Muyuard. We do not m€Bti«e SSJ
statute, but we mention the crime; sad taw
ctiuie is against the common low, declares' ty
the statute, to wit, the attempting thekisfi
death, and the subversion of the prmt-
ment.
Ld. Staff. My lords, there is no doek bjjj
the attempting the king's death is a great sirs
heinous crime ; but, my lords, 1 do not uA
that in the Impeachment, there is any Qierir
act at all. And whether I shall answer Ids
treason not proved by any oveit-act swots ty
two wituetsc s, I su bmit to your lordships- B|r»
my lord, because your lordships aftd ta« &**
[1878
then that my lord Stafford was to be
one among them ?
DugdaU. I cannot remember that I did, my
lord.
•Ld. Staff. Then, my Lords, I make this use
of it : He tells you of a plot Id years ago, that
400,000 men in arms were ready against the
king's death
DugdaU. I did not say so, my lords, I desire
understood aright—
Ld. Stuff. Yon say you heard so.
Dugdale. I speak as to the number of men,
what I beard at the consults and meetings with*
in these two years.
Ld. Stiff. But I speak of 16 years ago, what
number ofmen was there to be raised i
Dugdale. My lords, it was a general word
that was amongst us, That we must be provided
against that time, against the death of the king,
but no number at all.
L. Staff. This my Lords, nnder the favour,
I conceive does not concern me. He tells
yon there was such a thing; it might be
1177] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cbablis II. ipsO.—Fwc Popish Lards.
of Commons may not think that t propose these
-things out of a desire of May: if your lord-
ships please, it may be saved to me, with
edl other points of law; I will go on to my
proofs.
X. H. 8. Yea, aU these things shall be
eased to you : pray let ns hear your evidence.
Ld. Staff. Since your lordships have granted
sue that, oe pleased to give me leave to go
to my evidence; and I begin with Stephen
Dugdale.
X. U. S. Setup Dugdale.
Xd. Staff Will your lordships please I may
have pen, ink, and paper?
L.JL8. By all means, my lord. [Which
was given him J
Ld. Stiff. May it please yoor lordships, Ste-
Shejn Dugdale said, if I understand him right
ind I ask him again), that he knew something
of the plot 15 or 16 years ago.
X. H. S. What say you, Mr. Dugdale, you
hear the question ? Did not you say you knew
of the plot 15 or 16 years ago?
DufgdmU. I did say it, and did explain my
meaning in it. I did say there was among us
ouch a preparation to be made against the king
died, of arms and money, that neither should
be wanting.
1A* Staff. I beseech your lordship to ask
what proportion of arms was to be provided.
X. H. S. What proportion of arms was to be
provided f
DugdaU. I never heard it nominated how
many absolutely. I have heard of some num-
bers. I heard of late of 30,000 that were to be
raised beyond sea x What the whole number in
fingiand was, I have forgot; but I think I have
heard Mr. Gavan, and some of the priests sey,
That if there was occasion tbey should have at
least SOQ,oeo to assist them, that was of
men ; and I suppose they bad arms as well as
loan.
Ld. Staff. My lords, if this were true which
lie says Mr.Gavan said, that they were 300,000,
J desire to know what men be meant, what
religion" they must be of.
£. |T. S. What religion were they of that
were to come in and help?
Jhtgdmk. He did not name them at that
time ; but I understood tbem, and so I appre-
hend the company would, that they were
Roman catholics.
Ld. Staff It is a strange thing that there
should be 900,000 catholics raised, when there
are not 80,000 in England that can bear
arms.
X. H. S. Good my lord, they might come
trom beyond sea, and so they might be so many
ILoman Catholics, though there were not so
many in England. •
Serjeant Mayn. And he says not they were
Roman Catholics, but he heard so.
Mr. Treky. There taigbt.be so many Roman
'Catholics, and such as should be with them.
U, Staff. Did be hear 16 or 16 years ago
that'I was to be among -them ?
L. H. 8. Answer that question : Did you
tot* vii. 4T
so, or it might not be so; I am not con-
cerned in it, then it is out of doors as to what
conoerns me, I conceive; if the gentlemen
conceive otherwise, they will say so. Then
my lords, the next thing is, How long ago it is
since I first spake to him about this Plot F And
I beseech your lordship he may mention tims>
and place.
L. H. S. You hear the question, Mr. Dug-
dale.
Dugd. The first time, to my best remem-
brance—
L. Staff. I beseech you, my lords, let us
have no remembrance, but let him swear po-
sitively.
X. if. S. There is no mortal man can swear
otherwise than according to his remembrance.
L. Staff. When a man's life and honour, and
all he hath is at stake, and indeed in conse-
quence, every man in England is concerned,'if
they swear not positively, but still say, As I
remember ; who can make a defence ?
X. H. S. Mr. Dugdale, Go on, and say, as
near as you can, and be as particular as you
can upon your oath.
Dugd. That which I can positively affirm,
is, It was about August or September 1678.
L. Staff. He said, yesterday it was in the
latter end of August, or the beginning of Sep-
tember, which are two months. I beseech yoV
what does be mean by the latter end of August f
How long before the end of August ?
X. H 8. How long was it before the last
dayin August?
Dugd. My lords, I will not be positive ; but
it was either in one month or the other : I did
not keep a Diary, or else I would give your
lordships satisfaction/
I*. Staff. I beseech your lordships he may
positively say, whether in Aug°»t> or not in
August ; or whether in September, or not in
September.
Dugd. I dare not venture to swear that, I
dare not do it.
T370] STATE TRIALS, 32 Gharuss II. 16 SO.— Proceedings against tie [lflO
L. Sfci^ Then saving my exceptions to the
* uncertainty of that afterwards, 1 would ask him,
what day was it in September that I spoke to
him.
Dugd. I remember one was either the 20th
or '21st of September, 1G78.
L. Staff. My lords, he says the 20th or 21st;
does he say that was the first time he spoke
with me?
Sir JT. Trevor. No, no.
L. Staff. I fyescech you, my lords, they may
not answer the questions, but the witnesses ; they
cry, no, no.
X. H. S. My lord, you shall certainly have
an answer to all the questions you will ask.
L. Staff. But when I ask, they answer for
them ; I would know whether that is the coarse'
or no ? /
X. TL S. Do not disquiet yourself for any
thing that is said about you ; you shall have a
fair hearing.
L. Staff. But, my lords, I cannot but be
« disquieted when I hear these learned gentlemen
make answers to my questions for the witnesses.
X. IX S, Mr. Dugdalcr was the 20th or the
2 1st of September, you speak of, the first time
that you spoke to my lord Stafford.
Dugd. No, my lords, it was not.
L« Staff. Pray, my lords, what day was it
then I spoke first to him ?
X. H. S. What was the day you first spoke
to my lord ?
Dugd. Truly, my lords,. I cannot remember
to well as to tell you.
X. If. S. Do you remember when my lord
came to Tixall ?
Dugd. I remember one Sunday in particular ;
but I cannot tell what day of the month it was.
X. H. S. Do you remember my lord Staf-
ford at Tixall, in company with my lord Aston
and Father Event— Dugd. Yes, I do.
X. If. & Do you remember that any dis-
course passed between them ?
Dugd. Yes, I do.
X. If. S. Was that before or after the 21st
" of September.
Dugd. Beth before and after.
L. Staff. My Lords, He says there was a con-
sult at 1-ixall, where such and such were pre*
seat, end-toe king's death determined ; I ask
vihen was that ?
Dugd. That was in September, I cannot
say positively the day; but in September, or
the latter end of August.
L. Staff. My lords, I must acquiesce and sub-
mit to your lordships to do what you please ;
but if he docs not name times nor places, how
can I make my defence ? I desire he may say
positively within five days of tbe one or of the
. other ; and, my lords, L will put it upon that,
if he say fire days before the end of August, or
Jive days in the beginning of September, which
one would think is space enough, that is tea
days time.
X. If. S. My lords, do observe how rar Mr.
Dugdale goes, and that he is no further positive
than he does express himself.
L. Staff. I beseech your lordships, 1 prea
this, because, it concerns me very much, tmt
he may be positive within five davs or under.
X. H. S. Can you remember whether it wen
within five days of tbe one or of the other?
Dugd. Truly, my lords, I cannot be positive;
if I had not made a particular remark opoi
that of the 40th or the Slst, I could not have
remembered that; for I did not then intend*
reveal the plot, or else I could have given jn
satisfaction in that.
X. H. S. My lord, your lordship bub in
answer to it ; he cannot speak more poskmlj
to it than he does.
L. Staff. I beseech yon, then, how is it pos-
sible I can make my defence ?
Dugd. My lords, I kept no Journal; ifl hd,
I would be more positive.
L. Staff. He says it was the latter end ef
August, or the beginning of September; I de*
sire he will say, whether it was the last week is
August, or the first week in September?
L. H. S. lie answers he cannot tell ; yosr
lordship must make what advantage you cu of
that answer.
L. Staff. I can make no advantage of it, bb-
less he aoes speak positively to tbe time. My
lords, I beseech you I may know what is ut
end of August and the beginning of September?
X. H. S. My lord, I hear you not.
L. Staff. La man says the beginning of J«*
I was at such a place, how many days is tk
beginning, and how many days the end of i
J month ? How much time wiH your lordship
understand the meaning of that to be? I is
concerned extremely in the point of time; for
it is that which the whole business depenk
upon, I mean as to this man.
X. H. S. My lord, go on with your evidence;
I know not how to give you an answer, wbti
judgment my lords will make of it, or bee
much they will understand by it, till the? sk
withdrawn ; They observe how much year lord-
ship insists upon it, and will hear what tbi
worthy gentlemen of the House of ComsMtf
will answer to it.
L. Staffs My iordv my whole business *«*
this fellow is concerned in a positive ansa*
to this question ; I give him, I think, reason-
able time to confine himself to.
X. H.S. What say you to the 90th or *W d
September, my lord ?
L Staff My lords, I shall give a dear w
swer to that anon;, but I am eitremelf con-
cerned in this, to know whether it was iaAogs*
or September.
X. H. S. My lord, if your lordship fcc est-
eemed never so much at that, the witness est
swear no more than, be .can swear. He ssjs
about the latter end of Augastor tbe beginou*
of September ; will your lordship sued sail w
that? t
L. Staff. Well then, I will go on as well « I
can : As for the matter of the SOtb or Slstfl
September, I beseech your lordships I mar •*
Dugdale one question, Whether at die Trial *
sir George Wakeman or tbe Fir e Jesuit* »*
]£Si] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— J%* Popish .Lords.
[\m
did not say the consult was in August; if be
dcnyit, I shall prove it.
L. H. S. Mr. Dugdale, My lord asks, whe-
ther at the trial of Wakeman, or the Five Je-
suits, you did not say it was in August?
Dugd. My lords, I did name there was a
consult at Boscobel in August, but I do not re-
member that I did name my lord Stafford in
any consult in August positively; but, as I say
now, the latter end of August, or the beginning
Of September. But I did name that there was
a consult at Boscobel in August 1678.
L. Staff, My lords, He did say I was' at the
consult in August.
Dugd. 1 did not say my lord Stafford was
there, I do not charge him in it; and if any
such thing was printed, I have wrong done
L. Staff. Then he says he had nothing to do
^vith me till the latter end of August, or the
beginning of September. My lords, I beseech
your lordships to ask him, whether in sir George
Wakeman's trial he did not say, he was to re-
ceive orders from me in June or July, when I
came into the country.
L. H. S. Did not you say at sir George
Wakeman's trial, that you were to receive
orders from my lord Stafford in June or July,
when he came into the country ?
Dugd. My lord, I sumbit to your lordship,
and the rest of ray lords here, whether when
that question was asked by my lord Stafford, I
did not say, That the first time I entered into
correspondency with the Consulters, they told
me, my lord was to come down then, and I
should receive orders from him. I had heard
of my lord Stafford before, but not to enter into
any consults with him, till he came down the
latter end of that summer.
L. Staff. I beseech your lordships pardon
me ; I desire him to answer positively, whether
at the trial of sir George Wakeman, he did not
say he was to receive orders from me in June
or JjiWy when I came into the country.
L. H. S. Did you say so at sir George Wake-
man's trial ?
Dugd. I believe I did say so; for I had it
from others, and not my lord Stafford him-
self.
L. Staff. My lords; in June or July I was
not in the country.
X. H. S. He says you were to come down,
that you did come down.
L. Staff If you will let him da thus, there is
no man safe: I shall begin the tragedy, and
millions will follow. lie swore at the trial of
sir George \yakemun, or that of those other
persons, That there was a consult at my lord
Aston's at Tixall, where I was one, in August.
Dugd. My lords, I did not swear so ; but in
August or September, or one of them, as now
I swear.
L. Staff I shall prove it by the book, and
witnesses that were there.
Dugd. Then they did me wrong by printing
k ; for I never said of jour lordship otherwise
than I do now.
L. Staff. I desire my witnesses may be called
to prove it, for I conceive it is very material. a
My lords, does he deny it?
Dugd. I do say there was a consult at Tixall
in August ; but I did not charge your lordship
positively to be there then, nor with any more
than* I do now.
L. Staff. I think you did, and I have wit-
nesses to prove it. And it is impossible for
any man living to defend himself, if persons
•shall swear as they suppose, think, or remem-
ber. I tell your lordships I was not there all
the month of August.
Im H. S. Does your lordship intend to call
any witnesses?
I* Staff, My Lords, I thought I had more,,
witnesses than I have. But I have two here,
if your lordships will hear them, that he did
swear I was at Tixall in August.
L. H. S. Who are they ?
L. Staff'. My daughter Winchester, for one,
and a lady that is my kinswoman for ano-
ther.
L. H. S. Let them stand up, they are not to
be sworn. You do not except against them,
gentlemen ?
Sir W. Jones, No, let him prove what he
can.
L. Marchioness of Winchester. He did swear
that be was to receive hi6 orders from
L. H. S. Madam, your ladyship is not upon
your oath; but you are under all the obligations
of truth and honour in the world.
L. March. Winch. My lords, by the grace of
God, I will not speak an untrue word.
Sir W. Jones. We desire to know this lady's
name.
L. Stuff. It is my daughter Winchester.
L. March. Winch. This Stephen Dugdale did -
say at the trial of sir George Wakeman, That
he was to receive orders from my lord in June,
or July, when he was to come down; and that
my lord was at a consult at Tixall in August.
L. 6. S. Did he sav positively in August, or
in August and September ?
L. March. Winch. No, he did not name
September.
Dugd. My lords, I might say my lord was to
comedown then; but not that ever I said he
was there, but as now.
L. H. S. But she says you did riot name
September.
L. Staff. Here is another lady. >
Sir W. Jones. Who is she, my lord?
L. Staff. Mrs. Howard, daughter to sir George
Blount, and married to Mr. Howard, a kins*
man of mine ; she is now a widow.
Mrs. Howard. My lords, at the trial of sir
George Wakeman, Dugdale was asked to he
positive in the month my lord Stafford came
down ; and he said, he came down in June nr
July; but he said the consult was in August,
wherein my lord Stafford was.
L. H. S. That lady likewise says the same,
That you would not be positive as to June or
July ; but as to August; you were positive that
my lord was there.
1353] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cmarles II. lQSO^-Proaedingi again* the [UK
Dugd. No, my lords, I only said, In August
there was a consult*; and in June or Jul/ my
lord was to come down.
Mrs. Howard. I do assure you we came to
that trial on puspose to observe everj word he
said about my lord Stafford, and we have kept
it in our memories ever since.
L. H. 8. What do you say, Mr. Dugdale,
to it ?
Dugd, I suppose there was a great many
more at that trial than those two worthy ladies;
and I suppose some of them may remember I
•aid no more than I do now. I said then, my
lord was to come down at that time, and so I
said several times, but not positively, that he
was there till the end of August, or the begin-
ning of September.
L. Staff. My lords, I do positively aver, here
are two witnesses that say, he swore I was there
at the consult in August. Now it concerns
me to prove that I was not there in August,
since heTsaid absolutely I was there in August ;
and I assure you I can prove I was not there all
the whole month. -In the beginning of August
I come from London, from my own house ; on
Tuesday or Wednesday the 6th of A«i|mst, I
went to my lord Bellasis*s, and that night I
went to George Porter's ; the next night I
went onwards towards Bath ; when I was there
I went over and staid with my noble lord the
marquis of Worcester ; there I staid two or
three days, and I went thence to another place
hard by there ; and then I came hack again to
Bath, and went back again afterwards to tny
lord's house; and the 1st or Sod of September,
X went from my lord's house to London. Then
if this be acknowledged I need say no more ;
if not, I will prove it by sufficient witnesses : so
then I was not there the whole month of Au-
gnst ; and the I'tginiune of September he says
he spoke with me. I was not there till the
18th of September. Now I beseech your lord-
ships, how that could possibly be ihe beginning
of September. I submit to you, Whether
then he be a witness fit to be heard, that shall
swear positively what hath no colour of truth
in it, I alsj leave to you. And if they object
I was not where I say I was in August, I will
prove it. And for the 20th and 21st of Sep-
tember, I do own something of that, and I shall
prove to your lordship what it was.
L. H. iS. Call what witnesses you please, my
lord.
L. Staff. My daughter proves when I went
out of town.
L. March. Winch. My lords, it was on a
Tuesday my father went to my lord Bellnsis's,
he dined there, and then went on to George
Porter's,
L. Staff. That I wag at Bath I shall call wit-
nesses,
• £. H, S. My lord, you should prove when
you first came to Tixall, my lord Aston's.
L- Staff. Will that satisfy your lordship ?
Z». H. S. Me f It is not me you are to sa-
tisfy, but my Lords, and the gentlemen of the
House of Commons.
L. Staff. Then I da own to tear lordship,
I came the first time the 12th of September to
TixalL
L~H. S. That was the first day yoawav
there ?
L. Staff. That year, my lord, it was.
Sir rFTJoikst. Prove it.
L. Staff. Does he deny that, my lords ?
L. H. S. Do you deny that my lord cam
first to Tixall the 12th of September, or •>
you know he was there before r
Dugd. My lords, I have positively spoke Is*
no day, but only to the 21st or 20th of Scab
L. Staff. Where is my lord marquis of
Worcester's servant f
L. H. S. My lord Stafibrd, it will be bestftr
your lordship to produce all the witnesses yot
have, and not to leave any thing undone lbs?
you can prove.
L. Staff But I beseech your lordships I nay
ask one question : If I shall name any of the
House of Peers as my witnesses, does that et»
empt them from being jodget ?
L. H. A No-, my lord. Jf year tordsij
have any witnesses among any of aiy \mm
here, tbey may very well testify fcr yotf, sad
yet remain still in the capacities of your jaaga;
for my lord of Strafibrd had a great many wit-
nesses that were peers.
Sir /. Trevor. We do not oppose' it, ay
lords.
L. H. S. My lord, call your witnesses.
I». Staff There is no place appointed far
them, and therefore I could not have the*
ready here; I have sent for them; laaref
throng of them.
L. H. S. They will open the way, and we
will stay for them.
L. Stuff My lords, I desire, that as yestef*
day, when the witnesses were sworn sgaiatf
me, mine did not hear what they said? so I de-
sire when my witnesses come, theirs may sot
be present.
L. H. S. My lord, with tout rordsbip'* m*-
don, it was not well done that your wicae&ei
w ere not there ; but if witnesses be to confront
one another, shall they not hear what oae mo-
ther say i
L. Staff. My lords, I am so clear io every
thing, I will dispute no little matters.
Theo my Lord's Witness stood vp*
L. H. S. What is this man's name yon erf
now, my lord ?
L. Staff Indeed, my lord, I don't know.
Witnets. My name is Bonny, my lords.
L. H. S. Does your lordship cat this a**'
L. Stiff. Yes, my lords.
L. H. S. You are not upon your oath, wj
you are to look that a strict account wilt <*
takeu of what you say.
Mr. Foley. My lords, we desire to tno*
where this witness lives?
Bonny. I live in Eseter-Strsef, by *»<*
Exchange. -
L. Staff. I declare it I know him «*»"! *
am told he can witness lor me.
MM]
STATE TftBALS, 50 C»arle»I1. M8G.~-Jft* Jtyiift Xordb.
irKw
X. JsT. 9, Your Christian name rs
Bonny. Thomas.
JL H. Si What profession are you of?*
Bonny, I Jive as clerk of the kitchen lo my
lord marquis of Worcester.
Mr. Foley. What religion are yon of ?
Bonny, A Protestant, one of the Church of
England.
£. Staff. My lords, I humbly move your
lordships, when I asked Mr. Smith the 1st day,
where lie was made a priest f The gentleman
said, he was not bound to answer any thing
against himself that might make him criminal.
I desire that the question may not be pot to my
witnesses what religion they are off
X. H. S. THe gentlemen wiH not offer to
ask any question that may make a man accuse
bknadf ; but my lord, a papist or not a papist
is not so penal as a priest or no priest.
Mr. Fuley. To acknowledge a man's self a
papist, is not to make him a criminal.
X. H. 8. What does your lordship call this
witness for ?
JL Staff. To prove when I was at my lord
marquis of Worcester's ?
X. H S. What say you t when was my lord
Stafford at my lord marquis of Worcester's f
Bonny, In August 1678.
JL. H. 8. Do you remember it perfectly ?
Bonny. Very well.
X. H S. What day of August f
Bonny. The tfth of August, which my lord
marquis keeps as his wedding-day every year,
and the gentlemen of the. country are invited
t briber. My lord Stafford was then at Bath,
skm) my lord marquis was pleased to send his
coach for him, to he present there that day ;
there he staid that day and the next day, and
then returned on Monday. And in the same
month, the 31st of August, my lord came again
from Bath to Badminton, my lord marquis of
Worcester's, and upon the Monday after re-
turned for London.
X. H. S. That was the beginning of* Sep-
tember ?
Bonny. Tes, the Sd he went to* London*.
X. if 5. Will you ask him, gentlemen, any
questions f
Managers. No, my lords.
X. H. S. Call another witness then. (Who
stood up.)
X. fi. S. What is this man's name ?
Wltr#u. Thomas.
X. H. S. Thomas what ?
Witness. Thomas White.
X. H. S. Where do you live ?
White. I live with my lord marquis of
Worcester at Badmington.
X, H. S. What do you say ?
White. My lords
L«»rd Marquis of Worcester. My lord Stew-
ard, I have only this to say, my ford Stafford
desired that his witnesses might not be asked
what religion they were of ; hut I desire nil my
servants may be asked, for I keep none but
Protestants.
X. Jf. 8. What religion are yoiw>f f
White. A ProtestitBt.
L. Staff. My lord*, I did1 not inquire if fer
them, I know my lord keeps* noire but Pro-
testants ; but I asked it for others of my wit-
nesses, that may come, and be startled at it.
X. H. S. What say you, when was* my lord'
Stafford at my lord marquis of Worcester's
house ?
White. The 17th of August 1078; I fetched
him from Bath, being my lord's wedding-day.
X. If. 8. You fetched him.
White. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. What place do you serve my Jonf
marquis in ?
White. As coachman.
X H. S. Was he there afterward* ?
White. Yes, he wne, but I cannot remember
the day ; only this bting a remarkable day, 1
can remember it. '
X. M. & Did tou carry my lord from thenc*
towards London r
White. Yes, I did.
X. H. & When was that ?
White. The second of September, to the best
of my remembrance.
X. 9. S: Gentlemen, will you ask Uira any
questions.
Managers. No.
L. Staff. I think this is so dear, I snail not
need to trouble your lordships further with
more witnesses.
X. H. 8. Call whom von please, my lorn*,
and as many as you think fit, they snail be
heard.
L. Staff. One more then, my lords. (Wbtf
stood up).
X. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. Richard Be van.
X. H. 8. Who do you live with ?
Sevan. I am groom to my lord marquhr of
Worcester.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Betwn. A Protestant.
X. If. S. Do you lemember when my lord
Stafford was at the marquis of Worcester's
house f
Bevan. Yes, I do.
L. H. 8. What time was it f
Bevan. The 17 th of August.
X. If. S. Do you remember any other day *
Bevan. No, my lord ; but he was there that
day.
X. H. 8. Will you ask him any questions f *
Managers. No, my lords.
L. Staff. My lords \ if your lordships pfeftae, f
desire my lord marqui? of Worcester mar refl
your lordships whether his men have said true}
or no ?
Marq% of Worcest. My lords, 1 6o remember,
that my lord Stafford was pleased to do me the
honour to come upon my wedding-day from
the Bath, and dine with me, as most persons of
quality that are of nry acquaintance, and
happen to be at the Bath at that time, are
pleased to do ; and as most of the gentlemen
of the country, within such a distance, do also;
I (And that day it the 17th of August). I think
1387] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Proceedings against the [LM
be was there once or twice after, from the bath,
but I cannot tell precisely the days ; but that
particular day I remember, because, it was my
wedding-day.
L. u. S. Can your lordship remember when
my lord Stafford went to London ?
Marq. of Worcest. Truly I cannot tell that,
my lords.
L. H. S. Did yob not after that lend my
lord your coach ?
Marq. of Worcest. Yes, I did, to carry him
as far as Sandy-lane, on the road to London ;
but the particular day I remember not : but one
of the persons examined (who was then my
clerk of the kitchen) must needs know, because
he books every day who is in the bouse, and
therefore I believe what he has said is true.
• L. Staff. Stephen Dugdale, I desire, may
come again. I conceive I have made it plain
to your lordships, that Dugdale did swear, That
in August there was a consult at my lord
Aston's where I was ; and I conceive it is also
clear that in August I was not there ; and then
if it were the beginning of September, that
could not be neither; for I came not down to
Tixall till the 12th. I beseech you to ask him
when I offered him the 500/. to kill the king, I
think he says it was the 20tii or 91st.
X. H. S. What was the time my lord offered
you the 500/.
Mr. Dugd. It was about that time, the 20th
or 21st of September, to my remembrance.
L. Staff. He said positively before, it was one
of those two davs ; I beseech your lordship to
ask him where it was.
L. H. S. Where was that offer made ?
Mr. Dugd. In my lord's lodging chamber at
Tixall.
L. Staff. Then one question more, I desire
your lordship to ask him, what day the race
was at Eiching-hill between sir John Crew's
roan and Lazingby ?
Mr. Dugd. If it please your lordship, I do
conceive it was about that time.
L. Staff, I pray he may answer positively,
for, if you please, I will tell you how it was. It
is very true,' the 20th of September this fellow
was in my chamber, and I shall trouble your
lordships with some little discourse about it,
and my reasons why : first, permit me to let you
know, that this fellow did serve my lord Aston
in the quality of a bailiff. And I never thought
him to be an honest man, he was a mean ser-
vant, and when the other servaots waited but
till the second course came in, he staid till the
coachman and the groom went to dinner, and
eat with them. I profess before God it is true
as that the sun shines, I have often and often,
I cannot tell how many times, when m I have
been very dry at my lord's table, and seen him
by me, not called for drink ; I did detest him
as so meau a knave, that I often refused to take
drink at his bauds: And now for me to offer
this fellow 500/. —
X. H. 8. I think your lordship says he was
bailiff to ray lord Aston ?
lb Staff But I knew him to be an arrant
knave, and a great gamester at races and sock
. things.
L. H. S. My lord, would you have offered
500/. to an honest man to kill the king ?
Serj. Mayn. You said you never saw hjm.
L. Staff. I said I had seen him, but now I
did not know him by his perriwig.
L, H. S. Did you not know Imn, my lord?
L. Staff. No, my lords, I profess I did not.
L. H.lS. Why, your lordship was agoing to
shew that the race at Etching-hill was upon the
20th oFSeptetnber ; and your lordship confesses,
that he did speak with you on the 20ih of Sep-
tember in your chamber ; and Dugdale mji,
this day was the very offer made him of 500/. to
kill the king. What do you say, Dugdale, we*
you at the race.
Mr. Dugd. Yes, I was with my lord at the
race.
L. H. S. Did my lord speak with you befbrt
he went, or after? — Mr. Dugd. Before.
L. H. S. That morning in his chamber?
Mr. Dugd. Yes, it was that very morniog,
before he went to the race.
L. Staff. I do own, my lord, thus far ; be wtft
in my chamber that morning ; but, m> lord, I
can prove what I say to you : My lords, the
20th of September in the morning, I was ism?
bed, and .there comes a servant of mine tint
hath served me twelve or fourteen years, sod
he comes in to roe, and says, Yonder is Stephen
Dugdale, very desirous to go to this race. It
seems he says be went along with me to this
race.
Mr. Dugd. I say I went either before or
after, or when you went to the race, for I w*J
with you at the race.
L.H. S. Whether he went with yon or no,
is not the point, but whether be was is you
chamber at that time.
L. Staff. It is the point ; for he said just
now, he went with me, as I apprehended him.
But I tell your lordships, mjr servant came sod
told me, Stephen Dugdale desires that 70a
would ask my lord Aston leave that he may p
before to the race ; my lord is angry with him
already for his meddling in races, and he dare
not ask himself. My lords, I was a little cos*
cerned in the race, for I had betted sea*
money ; and I thought with myself, should I
ask my lord Aston leave for him to go, kj to™
will not deny me, but perhaps will take it ill to
be asked, so I was not over-willing to do it
But I bid my servant call him in, and when he
came, I asked him some foolish questions shoot
the race, as who he thought would win, sod
the like ; but I told him, I would get leare of
my lord for him. My lords, I did go to my
lord Aston, and told him, my lord, I *m xq6~
ing my servant before to the place o( the race,
but I am afraid he does not well know the
way, shall Stephen Dugdale go along with bna r
My lord gave him leave to go. But, raj Ms,
I dressed me, and did not speak ooe nuk
more to this Dugdale, but he»went before, «»
I was hardly or but just drest when be e*
gone*
I3S9] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Fro Popish Lords.
11399
X. H. S. I pray, my lord, was your lord-
ship at no time alone with hjm in your cham-
ber?
X. Staff. No, never since I was born, never
is all my life.
X. H. S. No, my lord ?
X. Staff. He says my servants used to come
for him, I profess it is all false.
. X. H. S. What say you to that, Mr. Dug-
dale ?
Mr. Dugd. My lords, I was in my cham-
ber, and busy when my lord sent for me that
morning, and it was either by his page, or one
that waits on htm in his chamber ; I went to
my lord, and the page was in tlie chamber, and
he ordered him to go out.
X. Staff I declare and aver to your lordships
he was in the hall, or the next rotim, and desired
to come in.
X. E. S. Where is the page ?
L. Staff'. This fellow was but a poor boy,
found at the door, then he was a thresher, and
now a witness for the king.
Then my Xord Stafford's Man stood up.
X. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. My name is Nicholas Furnese.
X. H. S. Do 5rou remember the day of the
race at Etching-hill ?
Furnese. Yes, I do, my lords.
X. H. S. Do you remember Dugdale was
in your lord's chamber that morning.
Furnese. Yes, I do.
X. U. S. Do you remember whether your
lord did bid you go out or no ?
Furnese. No, he did not.
X. H. S. Were you there all the while Dug-
dale was there ?
Furnese. Yes, my lords, I was.
L. Staff Pray, my lords, ask him, whether
I sent for Dugdale, or he desired to speak to
me?
X. H. S. Did my lord send for Dugdale, or
did he come to you to speak to my lord for
him ?
Furnese. No, Dugdale spoke to me first.
X. U. S. What did he say to you, pray ?
Furnese. My lords about eight or nine in
.the morning, I came to go to my lord's cham-
ber, and I came through my lord Aston's hall ;
and coming through, I met Mr. Dugdale com-
ing to me, and said, he bad one favour to de-
sire of me. He said, he would fain go to the
.race; but, said he, I do not know how to go,
for my lord is very angry with me, and, if I
. should ask him, he would be worse, for he is
displeased that I have meddled so far in these
- matters already ; therefore I desire some means
may be used that I may go, and I desire that
you would speak to my lord to get leave for me
to go ; for Mr. Fox is there, and hath a great
deal of money in his bands, and divers people
will give money to bett, and so it will be a great
loss and prejudice to me not to go. So I did
promise him, my lords, and I went into my
ford's chamber, and told him ; and when I had
•poke to my lord, my lord bid him come in.
And when he came in, my lord asked him
veral questions about the race : My lord asked
him what hopes he had, for he said a great deal
of money was laid by several people; here-
plied, he could win, but he wanted money to
bett: Says my lord, I will bett SO/, for Stafford-
shire sake, though I were sure to lose. And
then after some discourse to that purpose, my
lord told him, he would speak to his lord.
After my lord was dressed, be went out of his
chamber, and went to my lord Aston, to ask
him leave for Dugdale ; and my lord bid ma
make myself ready to go to the race. About
nine or ten I was ready to go, and coming down
the back-stairs my lord met me : Go, says he,
to Etching-hill, and see what betts there are,
and take Stephen Dugdale with you to shew
you the way ; for I have asked his lord leave
for him to go. So Stephen Dugdale went along
with me to the stable, and took out his horse ;
mine was not ready ; but I overtook him in
half a mile,and it was eleven o'clock e're we were
at Ridgely. I atked him some questions about
one Mr. Gerard ; and I think about twelve we
were at the race, and I staid till one with htm
and Mr. Fox, who was a party concerned in
the race, and there were several betts laid. I
was watchful when my lord should come, lest
he should want me ; so I left them, and went
to the room where my lord was to dine ; and
when I went to my lord, I left him betting.
About two, the lords and gentlemen all went to
dinner (that were there), and when we bad half
dined, betwixt two and three, Dugdale came
in, and we asked him how the wagers went ;
he said, he would bett gold to silver, if be had
it, but he had betted away all his money, I
knew not how much. So there was a gentle-
man that was servant to my lord Aston, one
George Hobsou by name, he lent him two
guineas and odd money, and I lent him some
40 or 50 shillings out of my own pocket, which
I told him, I would not lend, unless he would
give it me at the hill again, before the race be-
gun, because I was fearful my lord should go to
Stafford again from my lord Aston's that night.
About four or five I went up to the race, and
demanded my money, and he paid it me before
the race begun, and after the race was done, I
lost him. My lord went home, and I waited
on him. This was about five or six, and about
the midway towards my lord Aston's house, he
went into the coach, and I got on horseback,
and we got borne about six or seven, as I sup-
pose. But at night after supper 1 enquired for
Dugdale, how he took his losings, and how he
did after it : They told me, be was gone to bed,
so I saw him no more that night. The next
morning, my lord bid me come betimes, for he
would go to Stafford that morning, Where we
dined, at Mr. Abden's, and from thence took
our way to go to my lard's own house.
L. Staff. Now, my lords, if you please to
ask this boy, whether I bid him go and call
Dugdale to me, and leave him there ?
X. JET. S. My lord Stafford did bid you, Mr.
Furnese, go and dress yourself, and make you
MM] STAHS TOIALS, 32 Charles II. 1010.— JVmetigt ^ntf tie [IM
seady &r the race ; -did you not leave Dottle
behind you in the ohanotber when you went -to
dsess yourself?
Jbroanf. <No,«nyJord, Daguale was igctoe
thence ; -nod my lo*d wm gone too, before me,
to<my lord Aston V
« X. &•£. 1 4taU ask you the question (yon
ere upon an obligation very great, at much as
jf you <wese upon your oath), Whether you were
in my load's clmotber before Dngdate came in,
and Maid till after (he went out ?
iL. Stuff. And whether I bid him go out or
no?
-i. JET. 8. Weie you there before Dugdale
went in?
Furnete. He went along with me in ; I con-
ducted him in.
<L. H.*6. Did yau-sta? all the while Dugdale
eras there?
Furnsec. Ae near as »I .renumber! I staid
•bene all the while.
JL Stqff. Ask him • positively.
Burmese. Yes, my lords, I was there al! the
while Dugdale staid ; but 1 cannot say posi-
tively bow <long it was.
X. M. 8. Mr. Dugdale, you are upon your
oath.; he says be came in along with you, and
won -went out of the chamber before hiin, and
I* was these all the while you were there.
Mr. Dugd. My 'lords, I am not positive
which of my *lord\s servants it was that came
4br me ; but one it was. But when I came
into the chamber to my lord, my lord was
ejecting up, «nd he charged them both to go
Worthy and the room «ras clear, and I saw uo-
tody.
Ito&Utff. .My lords, ask my man.
<Fcrr*ej«. My lord never bid me go forth that
day, aor any -else in my lift, when any was in
She room.
vMr. Jhigd, My lords, if it please your lord-
dhips, Mr. 'Furnese was pleased to say, I would
mett^eld to silver; but in that lie was mis-
taken, for the odds were xjuite sis to four against
X. J5T.fi. Well, we are not upon the race
toow, or the wagess laid there. But, gentlemen
•af the House of Commons, will you ask. this
•nan any questions ?
Sir Wiuimm J«w*f . 'No, my lords, we have
aoaie to ask.
Sir The. hu. We desire to* now where he
lives now, what countryman he is, and what
•religion he is of.
.£. if. 8. Whom do you serve now?
Fumem. My lord Stafford.
•L.-H. 8, Do you live with him still?
>Fur*ite. Yet, I do, and have done this 14
X. M.S, What coumiysnaaare you ?
Fume*. A Dutch-man.
X. H.8. Where born?
Furmte. At 'Brasses!.
*3ir<F. ffinnmykm. We^raoJdask him what
persuasion or religion be is of?
X.*H. & Yau-usay fee -sure of wsmt«a#wer
tyouahaU assss.
. Furnem. I am a Roman Catholic
X. Stoff. That is as-good-as-a Jew.
Mr. Treby. The question is not intended sir
any harm, not with any purpose to arioimte
biin; it is only in regard of bis credit is tail
matter.
X. H. 8. Call another witness, my lord.
L. Staff. Wheat is Geosge Xei^h? (Win
steed up.)
X, E. S. How old are you?
XcifS. I am about &b or 16.
L. Staff. My lords, I 'believe he is 18 or 19.
Twcby. Whose servant is lie-?
L. Stiff. He >is my servant ; be hatk strtsi
me 7 or 8 years.
X. H. & What does your lordship call In
/or?
L. Stiff To tell you whetfier I bid aw ser-
vants to go out when Dugdale came in, aid
whether ever he caw DogdaJe and I nlooe.
X. R. S. George Leigh, how long beveyft
lived with my lord Stafford ?
Leigh. Seven years thedOth of Joneltst
X. H. S. Why then you were but 9 yean oW
when you came to him ?
Leigh. No, my lords, I thiuk I was net
X H. 8. Do you remember when ray lord
Stafford was at Tiiall ?
Leigh. I do not remember the month wrj
well.
X. Jf 8. Do you remember the time of <tbe
race at Etching-Hill?
Leigh. I do not remember the day; botl
was at it.
X. H S. Did Mr. Dugdale came into war
lord's chamber that morning ?
Leigh. I do not remember be was there (fat
very morning.
L. Staff Be pleased to ask him whether em
I bid him go out of my chamber when Dajssie
was there.
X. H. S. Did you ever see Dugdale any otst
morning in your lord's chamber?
Leigh. My lords, I think not ; I sm net at-
tain: He was there one morning, and H **
about a race; but I am not certain watt w»
it was, whether it was two boys ran, or tvt
men.
L.H.& Did your lord bid you I**1*
bis chamber ?
Leigh. No, my lords.
L. Sttff. Dugdale says I often sent km**
him ; pray ask him that question.
.X. <IT. S. My Icrd, this boy dees list rase*
ber that Dugdale at all wm at yoor <*•■**
that time of the raceatdStching-bill; so tost*
is not material to tbethiwgin qaesrion.
L. Staff, Ves, my lords, Dugdslc My*
lordships yesterday that I sent tab l*J *tti
for him. .
X. H. 8. Did ever this boy come for J*-
.Dug«Wt . Yes, be hath, I am sere, ojb* *
my chamber' for me to go to my l"m\ . ^
L.H. S. Were you sent for by wf l***1*
than oftee ?
Dvgdale* Yes, several times.
X. If. 8. 'Befate or after the meet
3
13931
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. IGSO.^-Fivc Popish Lords.
[1304
Dugdale. Both before the race, and after
the race.
L. H. S. By whom were you sect for ?
Dugdale. Sometimes by the gentleman that
was last examined, and sometimes by this boy.
X. H. S. Did you ever come from my lord
Stafford to bid Dugdale come to him ?
Leigh. My lords, I do not remember that
ever I did.
X. H. S. It is an hard thing to remember so
long.
' L. Staff. If ever he came once to me, and
"was alone with me, I will be content to acknow-
ledge all this to be true. Pray ask the other
roan if ever I sent him for him.
L. H. S. He did testify before, that he came
'with him that day to your lordship's chamber.
L. Staff. That day, my lords : But be says,
other days I sent for him.
X. H. S. Call Furnese again. (Who stood
lip<) Furnese, did my lord Stafford ever send
you for Dugdale, either before or after the race?
- Furnese. Never, my lords, to his chamber.
X. H. S. Did he ever in his life send you to
Air. Dugdale, to speak with him, as you re-
member?
Furnese. Never, my lords.
L. Staff. He was, my lords, such a fellow, I
could not endure he should come near me ;
such an impudent lying fellow.
L. H. S. Have you any more witnesses, my
lord? ■ •
L. Staff". Yes, a great many.
L. H. S. Call them all, I pray.
I*. Staff. My lords, I hope you think I would
not be so great and imprudent a fool to employ
such a fellow as this, who not long after run
away from my lord Aston's.
L<H.S. Who did?
L. Staff. Stephen Dugdale. And for that,
if you please, I would call some witnesses.
X. H. S. Call Furnese again. (Who stood
tip.) Did you ever see Dugdale and my lord
Stafford together?
Furnese. Never in my life.
X. U. S. Why, you saw them together that
morning you brought him to the chamber.
(Then .the Auditory Inugbed.)
Furnese. Never alone.
L.. Staff. 1 did not think I was in a cock-pit,
or a play-house. But if your lordship's please
to let me call my witnesses, to prove that Dug-
dale ran away from my lord Aston, I shall call
lor that Thomas Sawyer. (Who stood up.)
X. H. S. What is your name?
Witness. Sawyer.
X. H. S. Your christian name?
Witness. Thomas.
•X. H. S. Who do you live withal?
Sawyer. My lord Aston.
X. H. S. Where do you live?
Sawyer. At Tixall.
X. a. S. Are you my lord Aston's servant ?
Sawyer. Yes.
X. H. S. How long have you been so?
Sawyer. Six years and ever since Michaelmas.
** L. H. S.. What have you to say ? -
VOL. VII,
Sawyer. As to Dugdale's reputation, I hare
this to say, How that he went from my lord
Aston's for debt, and was taken by' the watch
at tJeywood.
X. H. S. When was that ?
Sawyer. The latter end of November, or the
beginning of December.
X. H. S. What year ?
Sanger. (1678.)
X. H. S. Then the family broke up ?
Sawyer. And coming thither, and being taken
by the watch, he was brought by the justices to
Tixall; and after the justices had been with
my lord, their resolution was to carry him to
the gaol. So coming to Tixall, where Dugdale
was at an ale-house, he desired me to go to my
lord, and desire him that he would own him as
his servant, for he was so much in debt, that he
should else be undone for ever. In the mean
time Mr. Philips the parson of the town, had
been with my lord, (for Dugaale bt d desired
him to go to him also) and be asking me whither
I was going; said I, I am going to my lord from
Dugdale to desire him to own him as his ser-
vant. Said he, I have been with my lord just
now, and he said, he will not own him as his
servant ; it was his own act and deed. So Mr.
Philips and I came back to him, and told him.
So he sat down in the chair, and then rose up
again, and swore, He would be revenged of my
lord Aston, if ever it lay in his power.
X. H. S. You never heard him say he would
be revenged of my lord Stafford, did you ?
Sawyer. No, of my lord Aston. Then ano-
ther time, being at Stafford, he owed me 297.,-
and he was under the Serjeant's hands ; and
then he promises me from time to time he
would pay me, and did not keep his word. This
was three or four days before he began to peach.
He bid me come such a day, and he would pay
me part of the money ; and when I came thi-
ther, he told me that it was reported that he
should be a peacher ; and that there was a
speech, how that be should have £00/. for in-
forming that there were fourteen priests in the
country : But he takes a glass of drink, and,
Thomas, says he, by God, 1 wish this may be
my damnation and my poison, if I know of any
plot, or any priests.
X. H. S. Was not he a papist then ?
Sawyer. I cannot absolutely tell that, whe-
ther he was or no.
X. If. S. Do you know one Father Evers ?
Sawyer. My lords, I have seen him.
X. H. S. Hath he never been at Tixall ?
Sawyet. Yes, my lords, I have seen him
there.
X. H. S. And have not you seen Dugdale in
his company ?
Sawyer. Yes, I have.
X. H. S. Did not you at Tixall think Dug*
dale a stout able fellow ?
Sawyer. No, he never was accounted to
be so.
X. H. S. Then I ask you, if you thought him
an honest man, or a rich man ?
Sawyer. No;trulv, my lords: For I will tell
4 tJ
1395] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chahles II. 1 S$Q. —Proceedings against the [1I9G
Jou more than that : My lord Aston employed \ Sir W. Jones, Not now ; stay till your tate
im to be his bailiff, and receive his rents, and comes,
to pay workmen their wages, which he received
every Saturday. And my lord Aston did ac-
count with him, where he did set his hand to
receive the poor workmen's wages according to
their bills, when they had not been paid some
of them whole years, and half years, and
quarters. And they came and cried to my
lord, that'they were not paid. And thereupon
Dugdale did say, that one of them had demand-
ed more of my lord than was his due ; for he
said he had reckoned such a day with him, and
paid him so much money ; which man said he
was not that day at Tixall : And so he hindered
htm of part of his money.
X. H. S. Did you ever know that Dugdale
did forswear himself f
„ Sawyer. That I do not know, my lords, I did
hear he was concerned in a race, about which
there was atrial and a dispute which had won.
This I have heard by report.
. Sir Fran. Winnington. Speak your own
knowledge, not reports.
X. H.S. I ask yon, do you remember the
day when my lord Stafford came to Tixall ?
Sanger. He came on the 19th day of the
month.
X. H. S. What, September ?
Sawyer. Yes, the 12th of September.
X. H. fi. Did yon ever see Dugdale in the
company of my lord Stafford, while he was at
Tixall f
Sawyer, No, never in the house ; but at the
race, he hath come into the parlour.
Mr. Treby. You had discourse with Dug-
Me : You say he took a glass and drank, and
wished it might be his poison. Was not Fa-
ther Evers that time at my lord Aston 's ?
Sawyer. Not that I know of, my lords.
Mr. Treby. Was he not commonly there ?
Sawyer. Yes.
Mr. Treby. If he were, Mr. Dugdale must
know it ; and how then could he take a glass,
and wish it were poison, if he knew where any
priest was; since it was apparent he knew
where that priest was ? It is most improbable
Mr. Dugdale should say thus !
Sawyer. My lords, this %vas three or four
days ere he confessed any thing he knew of his
knowledge.
Mr. Ireby. What persuasion of religion are
yon ? — Sawyer. Of the church of England.
Serj. Mayn, Pray, my lords, ask him one
qoesDon ; he says Dugdale went away from my
lord Aston's, was not there a speech of a plot
(at that time) that was discovered ?
Sawyer. Yes, that I heard.
Sir 1'r. Win. My lords, I would ask bim
one question more : Was there no discourse of
the death of a justice of the per.ee thtit was said
to be killed in London about that time?
Sazcyer. To my best remembrance, -as I
heard, there was.
Mr. Dugd. My lorids, if your lordships
please that I should call witnesses to confront
ium now, or afterwards ?
7
L. Staff. Then call Philips. (Who stood op.)
X. H. S. What is yotfr name, Sir ?
Witness. Ralph Phiiipt.
X. H. S. What are you, a clergyman?
Phiiipt. Yes.
X. H. S. Are you beneficed ?
Phiiipt. Yes, my lord.
X. H. 8. Where r
Phiiipt. At Tixall, my lord.
X. H. S. You are a person that knows the
obligation that lies upon yon to give a tree fees*
tamony ; what can you say of Mr. Dugdale ?
Phiiipt. My lords,! have very little tossy
concerning Stephen Dugdale as to any thing of
the plot, but in reference Co what he aboil*
relate concerning Mr. Sambidge and me is
the narrative which he deposed noon the Trial
of sir George Wakeman : he said then be did
receive a letter concerning the death of sir £•
Godfrey, which was dated the 13th of October
as I remember ; and that he did comamnicate
the letter to Mr. Sambidge and me immediately
the next Tuesday : whereas I will assure yse,
my lords, I never heard neither by letter ror
word of mouth from him nor any other, till it
was publicly known.
X. H.S. Yarn did not live in my lord Aswai
house, did you ?
Phiiipt. No, my lords.
Sir W% Jones. We know not what he %*pt
we desire to understand what he means.
X. H. S. He takes notice that Dugdale it
the Trial of sir George Wakeman did defwss
touching a letter dated the l*th of Octetefj
which should come down to Tixall, mtanatisg
the death of sir £. Godfrey, and that he did
communicate that with the parson of Tixall
and another, which parson comes now to ssy,
he did communicate no such matter to him.
Sir W. Jones. We desire to osk him whether
he was present at that Trial, and heard on
say so ?
Philips. I was not present at the Trial, bit if
the Narrative of the Trial be truth, he did »J
so. m ^
L. H. S. So then, yon only come to disproof
what is printed that Dugdale should say.
Philips. Then I leave it to your jodpnesti,
whether what he said in the Narrative of w
Trial do concur with the truth. .^
L. Staff. I desire then to ask him wbethe?
Dugdale did not run away from my lord Aswf"
and would have bim go to my lord to own wi*
for his servant. . ,
L. H.S. What do you know of Dtp*'
. running a way ?
Philips. I kaow nothing at all of that, my
lords.
L. Staff. Whether he did speak to Vm »
own him for his servant when he was » tM
justice's hands? " ,.
X. H. S. Can you say any thing tones*!
the credit of Dugdale ? ^
Philips. I have nothing to ssy c*»cer*»l
Dugdale's credit*
1S97]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. lQBO.-<~Fwe Pipkk Lor is.
[1S0S
X. JET. S. Did you koow him ?
Philips. Yes, ever since I came to Tixall.
L. H. S. How long is that f
Philips. About 14 years.
X. If. S. What reputation had he in the
country ? Was he looked upon as one that
would perjure hinujelf ?
Philips. I never knew any thing of that.
L. it. S. Was he thought a stout man ? •
Philips, He was in good repute, with some,
and indifferent with others.
L. H. S. Will you call auy more witnesses,
my lord?
L. Staff'. I would only ask him one question ;
whether he did go to my lord Aston from Dug-
dale to know if he would .own him for his ser-
vant?
L. H. S. What say you, sir ; did you?
* Philips. Yes my lords, he knows very well I
did ; he did request tne to go to him. My lord
Aston I was loth to go to, because I had no
familiarity with hi in, nor interest in him ; but
he did request and urge me so much, that I did
go by much motives and persuasion from him,
and I did speak to my lord : so I told him the
message I had was from Mr. Dugdale, who
would request of my lord that he would own
liim for his servant ; for if he did not, he knew
not what to do with himself: but if he did, he
might be free from the gaol and from the oaths,
and escape the troubles that were upon him.
fio my lord replied to me, It is his own act and
deed, and I have nothing to do with him, and
Jet the justices do what they will with him ;
which were sir Walter Bagott, and Mr/ Kin-
nersley.
Mr. Foley. We desire to know whether he
heard any discourse about a plot at that time
or no?
Philips. Truly, my lords, I heard a talk of a
Plot, but not at that time.
Mr. Foley. My lords, I desire to know if
he took Mr. Dugdale for a person that might
be in the plot, if there was any such thing?
Philips. I cannot tell how to answer that, it
is a hard question ; I am not so intimately ac-
quainted with persons whose secrets are not
reposed in me.
L. Staff. The next witness I desire may be
(with the leave of the gentlemen of the House
of Commons) Sir Waller Bagott ; I did desire
him to be here.
Sir W. Jones. There he is, we do not oppose
it.
L. U. S. Is it your lordships pleasure that
air Walter Bagott be heard in his place?
Lords. Yes.
' Sir Walter Bagott.
L. H. S. What would you ask sir Walter,
my lord ?
L. Staff. My lords, I desire to ask sir Walter
Bagott, whether he did not apprehend Dugdale,
and upon what aceouut it was ?
L. H. S. Sir Walter Bagott, my lord desires
to know of you, whether yon did apprehend
Dugdale, and upon what account ?
Sir W. Bagott. My lords, Mr. Dugdale was
taken at an unseasonable time of night, and
brought me the next morning by the watch, as
the other witnesses have told your lordships.
And I took him away to Stafford, where there
were several other justices of the peace ; there
were offered him the oaths o( allegiance and
supremacy, which he took. After the taking
of these oaths, we told him, that he was a likely
man to know something of the plot, and it was a
very proper time for him to discover it to us
that were justices; heat that time did deny
the kpowledge of it ; that is all I can say.
L. Staff. I desire sir Walter Bagott may be
asked, whether be did not go to my lord Asioa
to see whether he would own Dugdale for his
servant? •
L. H. S. Did you ask my lord Aston to own
him for his servant ?
Sir W. Bagott. Yes, I did: for my lard's
house being in the way to Stafford, whither I
was going, I called upon him to know if Mn,
Dugdale were his servant : he told me he was
no servant of his, and he would not receive him t
upon which I and another justice of the peace
that was with me, took him to Stafford. The
occasion of our meeting there, was to summon,
in the militia, upon an alarm of the papists be*
ing risen in Derbyshire.
L. Staff. I make this use of it, my Lords, that
my lord Aston would not receive him : and if
my lord Aston had known he had been in the
plot, and could have discovered him, he- would
not have disobliged him.
L. H. S. Nay, he says more than that,
which you don't hear; he says, when they exa-
mined him, they gave him the oaths of alle-
giance and supremacy, and then told him lie
would do well to discover bis knowledge of the
Plot, and then he did not know any thing he
knew ; nay, he denied it.
Mr. Foley. Did he deny the knowing of it ?
Sir W. Bagott. Yes be did then.
Sir F. Win. He was not resolved to discover
at that time.
Serj. Mayn. We desire sir Walter Bagott
may be asked whether lie examined him upon
his oath or no ?
Sir W. Bagott. No, I did not.
Serj. Mayn. But had they then just given him
the oaths of allegiance and supremacy ?
Sir W. Bagott. Yes, my lords, we gave him
those oaths, and those only.
L. Staff. Then Mr. Kinnersley, if you please.
(Who stood up.) Be pleased to ask this, worthy
gentleman what be knows about Dugdale's
going from my lord Aston.
L. H. S. First let us know this gentleman.
L. Staff. His name is Kinnersley.
Mr. Kin. What questions would your lord*
ship ask me?
L. Staff. What you know about Dugdale's
going from my lord Astoo.
L. U. S. Mr. Kinnersley, we must know
yonr christian name.
Kin. Thomas.
L. H. & Do you know Mr. Dugdale?
1399] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings against tie [1400
Kin. My lords, I was not acquainted with
Mr Dugdaie till sir Brian Broughton, sir
Walter Bagott, and I and others gave hi in the
oaths of allegiance and supremacy, the latter
end of November, or the beginning of De-
cember ; I did not take notice exactly of the
time.
X. H.S. What year?
Kin. 1678.
X. H. S. Well sir, go on.
Kin. When he bad taken the oaths of alle-
giance and supremacy, I asked him if he knew
any treason or conspiracy against the king, tell-
ing him it was a seasonable time to declare it.
He told me he knew of none. This is all f
know, and all the discourse that I remember,
we had with Mr. Dugdaie.
Serj. Mayn. Pray why did you a*>k him that
question ?
Kin. The plot was then newly broken out.
Serj. Mayn. Why did you ask lain so parti-
cularly ?
Mr. Treby. Why did you think Mr. Dugdaie
concerned in it.
Kin. Because we heard he was a papist, and
my W rd Aston's servant.
L. Staff. Then I desire sir Thomas Whit-
grave may be examined. (Who stood up.)
X. H. S. What say you to sir Thomas Whit-
grave, my lord ?
L. Staff Will your lordships please to ask
sirTho. Whitgrnve whether he did not exa-
mine Dugdaie about the Plot, and what he said
at that time.
Sir Tho. Whit grave. My lords, I came to
Stafford the latter end of November, or the
beginning of December, I am not certain
which ; but I think it was this time two years.
The deputy-lieutenants met about the militia of
the county. They told me that Mr. Dugdaie
was in town, and was under an arrest: The oc-
casion of his coming to town was his refusal
of the oaths of allegiance and supremacy,
which he hath since taketi. I proposed to them
the sending for him, for I thought this was a fit
opportunity to get something of him about the
Plot. They seemed to approve of what I said ;
but withal, I told them it was not good to send
for him tilf the evening late, that the people of
the town might not take notice of his coming.
At night we did send for him, and the gentle-
men desired that I would examine him at the
end of the table: so I called him up, and
told him, I was sorry he was fallen into that
misfortune to be arrested, and that Mr. Mayor
bad not dealt well with him or us to take that
advantage of him ; that now he had taken the
oaths, I looked upon him as one of us, and wo uld
do him any kindness I could. He said, truly, for
his part, he was born a protestant, and of pro-
testant parents ; and it was his misfortune to
fall into the houses of papists, but he never liked
their religion. I then told him, sir, you may
do yourself a kindness, serve God and oblige
your king and country: I am very confident
you know of this horrid Plot ; pray do not
stifle your conscience with any oath of secrecy,
but let it come out. Many, I. told bim, strained
their consciences to serve their intetests; hot
you may clear your conscience, and at the same
time promote your true interest. He replied
as he hoped to be saved, he knew nothing of
it. And this is as much* as I know of the
matter. p
X. U. S. Do you ask him any questions, gen-
tlemen ?•
Manag. No my lord.
L. Staff My lords, I shall humbly moveyoor
lordships now, that you will please to take no-
tice, this fellow Dugdaie, hath endeavoured ta
persuade people to swear against me falsely, and
offered them money for it. In order to the
proof of which, I desire your lordships would
call John Morral, Samuel Holt, and William
Robinson.
(Then Robinson stood up.)
L. Staff. This man I never saw before in my
life.
X. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. Robinson.
X. H. S. What is your christian name?
Robinson. William.
.X. H. S. Where do you live?
Robins, In Worcestershire now.
X. H. S. With whom ?
Robins. With myself now.
X. H. S. Do you know Dugdaie ?
SirK Win. We desire he may give you aa
account of what profession he is of.
Robins. An upholsterer.
Sir F. Win. How long bath be lived in Wor*
cestershire, and in what place there ?
Rohins. I have lived half a year in Worces-
tershire, half a mile beyond Worcester.
Sir F. Win. And whether he follows that
trade or profession, now or no ?
Robins. No, I do not follow it now.
Sir F. Win. What do you live upon, and
how?
Robins. I live of myself now.
X. H. S. How is that ?
Rabins. Of my own money.
Mr. Hampden. We desire to know whether
this man was a servant to my lady Gerard,
or no. — Robins. Never.
Mr. Hampd. Or to my lord Gerard of Ge-
rard's Bromley ?
Robins. Never, not a hired servant, my lords.
Mr. Foley . Were you a volunteer servant, or
what were you?
Mr. Treby. Did you work at any time there
for my. lord or lady Gerard?
Robins. No.
X. H. S. How came you to live there?
Robins. I went over from a cocking out of
Cheshire.
X. H.S. How long were you there?
Robins. Three weeks or a month.
X. H. S. What was your employment there?
Robins. Nothing at all : I followed no em-
ployment.
Mr. Treby. What kind of servant were top
then? ' .
1401]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. XG&O.—Fioc Popish Lords.
[HO*
X. H. S. Come, dp you*know Dugdaie ?
Robins, Yes.
L. H. S. How long have you known him?
Robins. I have known him about five years.
X. JET. S. What say you to him ?
Robins, I say, I met Mr. Dugdaie about
Midsummer was twelve-month, in London,
nbout Charing-Cross, and he carried mc to the
Harp and Ball, and gave me beer and mum, and
such as the house did afford, and treated me ;
and asked me what made me so dejected and
cast down. I told him I was not well; I was
poorer than I used to be. He told me again, I
should not want any money that he had ; and if
I would please to be ruled by him, and do what
be would have me, be would furnish me with
money. And he took his handkerchief out of
his pocket, and bid me, if I wanted, take money
there. I took none; but told him, I would not
meddle nor make with any thing that night.
Then he told me ho could furnish me with
money, and put me in n way to get money, if I
would come in as an evidence against my lord
Stafford.
L. Staff. Be pleased to ask him, for I never
saw the man before, nor heard of him till last
week, what he should say against me, and whe-
the he knew me or not ?
jL. H. S. Did he tell you what you should
say against my lord Stafford ?
Rabin. Nothing at all, my lords.
L. Staff. Did he say any thing or no-
thing? Or, did he ask whether he knew me or
not?
X. H. $. Did you tell him vou knew my
lord Stafford?
Robin. No, if it please you, I told him I did
not know him.
X. If. S. And after you said you did not
know him, he offered yuu money to swear
against him, did he?
Robin. Yes, my lords, he did so, to come in
as an evidence against him.
L. Staff. Will your lordships please to ask
how much money there was in .the handker-
chief?
X. H. S. How much money was in the hand-
kerchief?
Rokin. I believe there might be eight, or
nine, or ten pounds.
X. U. & Did he offer you all the money, or
bid you take some?
Robin. He bid me take some.
X. H. S. Did he make any agreement with
you for what you should take ?
Robin. No, not at all, mylords.
Mr. Foley. Did you see Dugdaie any .more,
or was there an end of it then ?
Robin. No, I saw him no more.
X. H. S. Will you ask him any more ques-
tions ?
Sir W. Jones. We shall have occasion to
speak of him (we desire him not to go away)
when our time comes.
Then another Witness stood up.
£, H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. John Morrall.
L.H.S. What are you ? — Morrall. A barber.
X. H. S. Where do you live?
Morrall. At Ridgeley.
X. H. S. Where is that?
Morrall. In Staffordshire, within six miles of
Stafford.
X. H. S. What do you ask him ?
L. Staff. Whether Dugdaie did not persuade
him to swear against some of the Lords in the
Tower ?
X. H. S. Do you know Dugdaie ?
Morrall. Yes, my Lords, I have known him
12 or 13 years.
X. H. S. What can you say against him?
Morrall. My Lords, this Mr. Dugdaie, the
6th of August last was twelvemonth, sent for
me to the White Horse in Ridgeley, and there,
when I came to him, he told me I knew as
much of the plot as he. 1 told him I was in*
nocent of the thing. He swore God damn him,
that I knew as much as he. Then I told him,
if he knew no more than I did, he knew no
more than my Lord Mayor's great horse did.
Then he took me aside: Come, says he, you are
a poor man, and live poorly, I can put you in a
way whereby you may live gallautly; I will
give you 50/. in hand, if so be you will do so
and so, and 50/. more when the thing is done. •
X. II. S. What do you mean by so and so ?>
Morrall. To swear against Mr. Howard, sir
James Symons, and several other gentlemen of
the country.
X. H. S. Did he offer you any money to
swear against my lord Stafford ?
Morrall. No, I did not hear him mention
any thing of him.
X. H. S. But he offered you money to swear
against Symons and Howard ?
Morrall. Yes, my lord ; aod Herbert Aston,
my lord As ton's kinsman.
L. H. S. What were you to swear ?
Morrall. That they were at snch a meeting
at Mr. Herbert Aston's, upon the conspiracy of
the plot.
X. H. S. Will you ask him any thing?
Man. No, set him by.
Then another Witness stood up.
X. H. S. What is your name?
Witness. Samuel Holt.
X. H. S. What profession are you of?
L. Staff. Pray, my Lords, ask him whether
Dugdaie would persuade him to swear that
which he knew not.
X. H. S. What profession are you of?
Holt. A Protestant of the Church of Eug*
land.
X. H.S. What trade?
Holt. A blacksmith.
X. H. S. Where do you live ?
Holt. AtTixall.
X. H. S. Are you my lord Aston's servant ?
Holt. No, my Lords.
X. H.S. What say you?
Holt. My Lords, lie sent a man and a horse
for ma to Stafford, to the Sur.
1403] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Proceedings again* the [140*
X. H. S. Who did ?
Holt. Mr. Dugdaledid. And there I waited
upon him a good while. At length he came
aud told me he must speak with me privately;
so he told me, if I would swear that Waller
Moore carried Evers away, He would give me
40/. And he bid me not to be afraid to swear,
for fear of my lord Aston; for he would hire
me an horse, and get me to London, and place
note that where I got one shilling I should get
five.
X. H. S. Did you know Evers ?
Holt. Yes, my lords, I have seen him.
X. H. S. Do you kuow when be went away
from Tixall ?
Holt. No, my lords.
X. H. S. What else can you say ?
Halt. Nothing else.
X. H. S. Will you ask him any questions,
gentlemen ?
• Man. No.
L. Staff. The nejtt thing I go upon is, that
Stephen Dugdale, at the trial of the five Jesuits,
swore, that he acquainted Sambidge with the
letter about the death of sir Edmund bury God-
frey, the Monday or Tuesday after, which Mr.
Sambidge denies. And in order to that, I call
Mr. Sambidge ; but if your lordships please, I
shall first prove that he swore it then. Where
is Mr. Lydcott? (Who stood up.) I desire to
ask him whether Dugdale did swear at the trial
of the five Jesuits, that he acquainted Mr.
Sambidge with the letter about the death of sir
E. Godfrey.
X. H. S. You, fellow !
Witness. My lord.
X. If. S. What is your name ?
Witness. John Lydcott.
X. If. S. How do you live?
lydcott. I am a fellow of KingVcollege,
in Cambridge.
X. H. S. What do you come to say ?
Lyd. 1 do not know, my lords, what my lord
will ask me.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, before you enter into
the examination of this man, we desire to ask
bim a question or two.
Serj. Mayn. Whose servant are you, or were
you lately ?
* Lyd. I am a fellow of KingVcollege.
Serj. Mayn. But whom did you serve lately ?
were you never secretary to a lord ?
- Lyd. Yes, I was.
Serj. Mayn. To what lord ?
Lyd. To my lord Castlemaine, sir.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Lyd. Of the Church of England, and always
was ; nay, I cannot say always, for I was bred
up a Presbyterian ; my father was a colonel
under Monk.
L. Staff. I ask whether you did not hear Mr.
Dugdale swear at the trial of the five Jesuits ?
Serj. Mayn. I desire one favour, my lords ;
my lord Stafford asks questions to lead the wit-
nesses; pray let him -ask his questions more
generally,
X. if. S. You say you are a Protestant ?
Lyd. Yes, my lords.
X. H. 8. When did you last receive the tt-
crament ?
Lyd. When I was last at Cambridge— No,
not so ; for it is not above a year ago tbat I
was there.
X. If. S. When did you receive the sacra-
ment? .
Lyd. I do not exactly remember, my lords,
X. H. S. My lord, I would be glad to Lao*
what is the question your lordehip calls him for,
that your lordship may not ask the qucstioo,
but by me.
L. Staff. I desire to know (for my part I
know not what his answer will be) whether he
did hear, at the trial of the five Jesuits, Dag*
dale swear he had communicated the newt of
sir E. Godfrey's death, which was on the Satur-
day, and on the Tuesday after to any people,
and to whom.
X. H. S. Were "fou at the trial of tbe arc
Jesuits ?
Lyd. Yes, I was.
X. H. S. Did you hear Dugdale swear then,
aud give his testimony ?
Lyd. Yes, I did.
X. H. S. Do you remember what Dugdale
swore then ?
lafd. Very well.
X. If. S. What was it ?
Lyd. My lords, Mr. Dugdale spoke of a
letter that came down to my lord Aston*! on
the Monday, and he imparted it on Tuesday
after, at analehouse, to one Mr. Sam^;»lge, and
Mr. Philips : this was also at sir G. Wakeman'i
trial, which I took notice of more particularly
because 1 had occasion to take some notes
there.
X. H. S. What use do you make of this, my
lord?
L. Staff. If that be allowed to be so, then IwiB
call no more witnesses ; otherwise I have more.
JL H.S. Call them all.
L. Staff. Then call Mr. Charles Giftord.
Serj. Mayn. Pray, my lords, give me leave to
ask this young scholar one question before of
goes. By whose commendation or means did
you come into that college?
Lyd By election from Eton.
Serj. Mayn. Who promoted you ?
Lyd. One Mr. Doyley, now senior felloa of
KingVcollege ; it was his election.
Sir F. Wm. My lords, I would ask bias one
question. He says he went to take notes; by
whose direction did he go to take notes at or
G. Wakeman's trial ?
Lyd. It was for my own curiosity.
X. H.S. Friend, it is all one as if yoa were
upon your oath, and as penal to you : by whose
direction did you go ?
Lyd. It was partly my own curiosity, and
fmrtly to see what evidence was against my
ord ; for my lord Castlemaine thought hinsetf
concerned as well as others, and therefore de-
sired me to go.
Sir F. Win. Now it is out.
Sir W. Jones. It was done like t secretary.
1405] &TATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Fn* Popish Lords. [1406
L H. S. Had you ever that curiosity befort ?
Lyd. Yes/ 1 will assure jour lordships, I had
a great curiosity to bear it.
X. H. 8. Were you at any other trial ?
Xyrf. Yes, at the five Jesuits trial, and Lang-
horn's.
Then another witness stood up.
X. H. S. What is your name?
Witness. Charles Gifford.
Ld. Staff. Ask him whether be did not hear
at the trial of the five Jesuits, or sir G. Wake-
man, Dugdale say, 'that he did communicate
that letter to some people, I name not who,
the Tuesday after.
X. H. S. Were you at the trial of the five
Jesuits ?
Gifford. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. Did you take notes ?
Gifford. Yes, my lords, I was summoned
there as an evidence ; I had occasion- of being
there, both at the five Jesuits trial, and Wake-
maa's, and Langhorn's.
X. H. S. You took notes, you say ?
Gifford. Yes, I did.
X. H. S. What do you remember that Mr.
Dugdale did then swear?
Gifford. I remember at the five Jesaits Trial,
he did swear he received a letter sent to Evers,
which be intercepted, and it spoke of the death
of a justice of peace ; and he returned answer
to Evers again, He would be hanged if it did
not spoil fte business. And he said farther,
he could not hold, but went to an alehouse
and there be did impart it. But then he did
say there was one that could testify and make
out what he said ; Upon which he called Mr.
Cbetwyn, who deposed much to the same pur-
pose. ' And then at sir G. Wakeman's Trial he
did positively declare, that he spoke of it at an
alehouse to a minister, parson Philips, and my
lord Aston's kinsman.
X. H. S. What is his name ?
Giff. Mr. Sambidge.
LcC Staff. Well, my Lords, I have no more
to say to him : But I conceive by this it is plain
that Dugdale did then say> he had communi-
cated it to Mr. Philips and Mr. Sambidge. I
aha 11 call Mr. Sambidge to give you ah account.
Mr. Sambidge stood up.
Ld. Staff. Be pleased to ask him whether
he did hear Mr. Dugdale sav on the Tuesday,
that sir E. Godfrey was murdered the Saturday
before.
X. If. S. You hear the question, answer it.
Samb. Who must I speak to?
Ld. Staff. He is very deaf, and very old, ray
Lords.
Then the Black Rod was sent to be near him,
to put the question to him.
Black Rod. What would you have him ask-
ed, my Lord ?
Ld. Staff. Whether Mr. Dugdale did tell him
on the Tuesday, that sir E. Godfrey was mur-
dered the Saturday before ?
Black Rod. Did Mr. Dugdale tell you of the
Tuesday, that sir E. Godfrey was murdered the
Saturday before?
Samb. No, my Lords, he never told me any
such thing, I take it upon my salvation. I
never heard it till Friday or Saturday he was
found at Bury-hill.
Ld. Staff. Ask him if he were with Dugdale
at the alehouse the Tuesday before.
Samb. Dugdalo never spoke any sach thing
to me. '
X. H. S. Were not you with him at the ale*
house ?
Samb. No.
X. H. S. Not on Monday ?
Samb. No.
X. H. S. Nor on Tuesday ?
Samb. No.
X. H. S. Nor Wednesday?
Samb. Not as I know of.
Sir W. Jones. We shall prove he was.
Ld. Staff. Pray ask him what reputation
Dugdale hath in the country.
Samb. Oh, the wickedest tnan that ever lived
upon the face of the earth ! I know great part
of it myself; and a hundred and a hundred of
people will say as much.
L. H. S. What religion are you of?
Samb. I was never a papist in my life, nor
ever a fanatic.
X. H. S. What do yoo know of Dugdale in
particular, that is ill?
Samb. Yes, my Lords, I will tell you ; he
was a very abusive man, especially to the
clergy, and most especially to Mr. Philips,,
with whom I boarded. My lord Aston that
is dead, came and told me of it. Said I,
you are misinformed, for this Dogdale
is a knave and a rogue, and all the country
rings of him for his wickedness. Upon which,
he cites roe into Litchfield court for defaming
him; and lie entertains all the proctors, that I
could not get one to put in my answer: But
before the day came, be discharged the court,
and never appeared ; for we had that against
him that he durst not appear.
X. H. S. What particulars do you know?
Samb. He said the clergy of England was a
lewd clergy, and a pack of rogues.
X. H. S. Gentlemen of the House of Com-
mons, will you ask him any questions ?
Manag. No.
X. U. S. Hath my lord no more to say to
him ?
Ld. Staff. No, my Lords.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, go on : Hath
your lordship done with Dugdale, or have you
any more witnesses ?
Ld. Staff. No, my Lords; I have a great
deal more to say to him.
X. H. S. Go on then.
Ld. Staff. My Lords, I conceive by this, it is
proved to your lordships, that Dugdale did a(
that trial declare, he had acquainted Mr.
Sambidge and Mr. Philips with the letter about
the death of sir E. Godfrey, the Tuesday after
be was murdered. And I conceive I have
1407] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings against the [UOS
proved to your lordships, by their denying it,
that he did not tell them so ; and so he is for-
sworn in that. I should now have humbly de-
sired your lordships, that you will please to call
William Day; but upon asking the question, I
fiud be is not yet come to town, and so I shall
not trouble your lordships with him : I desire
that Thomas Sawyer may be called again.
Who stood up.
Ld. Staff, fray be pleased to ask him, whe-
ther be did not hear Dugdale wish he might-be
damned if he knew any thing of the plot.
X. H. S. lie said that before.
Ld. Staff. Then I beg your lordships pardon,
I shall not call him again.
X. H. 5. Go on, my lord.
L. Staff. My lords, there are a great many
other witnesses which I could call ; but it is to
no purpose, and so 1 shall call no more as to
Dugdale. I conceive upon the whole matter,
his reputation and credit are gone ; for he is
fersworn before the justices of peace, in that
he said there was no Plot, and wished be might
be damned if he knew of any Plot. I con-
ceive it is also proved, that upon the 80th of
September, when he says, I did communicate
with him about the king's death, he was only
then with me upon his own desire, and my ser-
vants were by: there was nothing discoursed of
hut about the foot-race. And likewise, as to
what be swore in August, that I was at such a
meeting at Tixall, he is forsworn, for I was not
there ; and so I hope that witness is laid aside ;
no creature will give any credit to him, neither
jour lordships nor the House of Commons.
L. H.S Have you done with Mr. Dugdale ?
L. Staff. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S, Whom will you proceed agaiust
next ?
L Staff Dr. Oates.
X. H.S. Call Dr. Oates.
L. Staff. Only give me leave to say one thing,
my lords, that you were pleased to say, I should
have copies of the two depositions of the 24th
and 29th of December : and I had one to en-
2uire, but cannot find that of the 29th. (Then
>r. Oates stood up.)
X. U. S. What say you to Dr. Oates, my
lord?
L. Staff. This Dr. Oates, if your lordships
please, Idesire may be asked, when was the
first time he ever saw me jn bis life.
, X. H. S. When was the first time, Dr. Oates,
you saw my lord Stafford ?
Oates, My lords, the first time I saw this
gentleman at the bar, was, as near as I re-
member, at Mr. Fenwick's.
X. H. S. That was in Drury-Lane ?
. Oates. Yes, my lords.
X. II. S. When was that ?
Oates. That was, as near as I remember, in
June.
X. H. S. Was it that time the commission
)rou spoke of was delivered ?
Oates. Yes, my lords.
X. If. S. Did you see that commission?
Oates. Yes, my lords.
X. if. 8. Did you read it ?
Oates. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. From whom was it ?
Oates. I cannot be positive as to that ; but,
as near as t remember, it was signed as the rest
was signed.
X. H S. How was that ?
Oates. Johannes Paulus Oliva.
X. H. S. You read it ?
Oates. Yes, I did, my lords.
X. H. S. It was a commission to be paymaster
of the army, was it not ?
Oates. Yes, it was.
X. H. S. And it was delivered to my lord ?
Oates. Yes, it was.
X. H. S. By the name of Mr. Howard of
Effingham ?
Oates. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. What says your lordship to this?
L. Staff. What is it possible for me to say
against this ? I declare to your lordships, in the
presence of God, I never saw the man in my
life. I oever went by any name, since I had
the honour of being a peer, but by the name of
Stafford. I never heard of Mr. Fen wick the
Jesuit, nor by the name of Thompson, til! this
Pht was discovered and he taken. This you
may believe, or not, if you please ; but this b
as true as I am -alive. My lords, I deaire I
may have out of the Journals the Deposition
on which I was committed.
X. H. S. Turn to the Journal.
L. Staff. It was read, as I remember, Friday
October 25, 1678.
Then the Clerk turned to the Journal and
read.
« October 25, 1678.
Clerk. " The lord viscount Stafford acquaint*
ed the House, That he was iu formed that there
was a warrant issued out from the lord chief
justice of England to apprehend liiui, which he
i ho ught fit to acquaint their lordships with,
and submitted himself to their lordships judg-
ment.
" The Lord Chinf Juttice being present, was
commanded to giv* the House an account of
the business ; who said, That last night, abort
nine o'clock, he received a letter from the
Speaker of the House of Commons, dated from
the Speaker's chair, to crme to the House of
Commons about business of great concernment.
Accordingly he attended the House of Com*
mons, where the Speaker told him, That the
House of Commons had received Accosarions
of high -treason against five lords, and some
gentlemen, and desired him to issue out his
warrants for their apprehension. The persons
were, ihe earl of Powis, viscount Stafford, the
lord Arundel of Wardour, the lord Petres,
and the lord Bellasis. And upon this he issued*
out his warrants for their apprehension, having
takeiv the Examination ot Titus Oates upon
oath. That the earl of Powis and the lord
Arundel were brought to him this morning in
custody ; and he advised them to render them*
selves to the Gatehouse, where now they are.
1409]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords/ [1 410
" Upon this the Examination of Oates was
read, whereby it did appear, (hat the lord vis-
count Stafford was charged to be in a conspi-
racy of treason against o>e king.
" The lord viscount Stafford denied ihe fact,
and after this withdrew. And after a while
the House was informed that his lordship
would render himself to the lord chief justice."
X. H. S. This is all that is in the Journal.
L. Staff. Then, my lords, if your lordships
please to remember, all of you that were there,
that 1 was accused by Dr. Oates, whose depo-
sitions I desire to see, taken before my lord
chief justice, that he had seen letters of mine
written to Fen wick, Harcourt, and some others,
three or four Jesuits, in which I was consent-
ing to the Plot ; that I had sent my son to
Lisbon, yet I would be as kind to the Jesuits as
before, though there was some difference be-
tween us. These Affidavits I desire to see,
which, as I take it, were read before your lord-
ships that day.
X. H. S. The affidavit was taken by my lord
chief jdstice in the House of Commons, where
he did attend them upon their summons : I
know not if the original were read in the House
of Lords, or the copy; but it seems it is not
entered into the Lords Journal ; but your lord-
ship had an order to take copies of all things
yon would have demanded ; and if you would
I cannot tell what to say to it.
L. Staff! Truly I could not take a copy, be-
cause I aid not know where it was. I desire
my lord chief justice may be asked where it is;
that is all I desire, and I will then go on.
X. H. S. I think Dr. Oates does say at this
time that he had seen letters of your lordship's
offering your correspondence and assistance.
L. Staff. If Dr. Oates will own he said no
more than is in that affidavit, I am eootent.
L. H, S. Hare you any copy of your own
examination, Dr. Oates?
Dr. Oates, Yes, my lords, I think I have it
here.
X. H. S. Marry, that is very well ; produce
it then. Do you oppose it, gentlemen r
Manag. No, we agree ; we desire the truth
may come out.
Then Dr. Oates looking among his Papers,
drew out one, and offered it to the Court.
X. H. S. Is that a true copy of yonr first ex-
amination ?
Dr. Oates. My lords, I will not swear it, but
it was given me for a true copy.
X. H. S. By whom was it given you ?
Dr. Oates. I cannot remember now, it is
two years ago.
Sir W. Jones. Unless we know whence it
comes, or what authority it bath, we cannot
consent it should be read.
X. H. S. Had you it from my lord chief
justice, or any servant of his ?
Dr. Oates. 1 -cannot tell whether sir Charles
Harbord gave it me, or no.
Sir F. Win. My lords, sir Charles Harbord
might be of the Committee of Examinations ;
VOL. Til.
but the examination for which my lord asked,
was not in the committee nor before the House j
my lord chief justice retired oat of the House,
et virtute officii took it. Now it was very fair
in Mr.. Oates to produce it ; but yet in point of
evidence, if he will not swear it to be a true
c°py» or give an account how he came by it,
we cannot allow it to be read.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, it is you that want
this paper, you desire to have the benefit of the
examination that was taken of Mr. Oates, tmd
therefore yon must produce a copy of it.
L. Staff. My lords, I could never get it.
X. ILS. It is uot entered in our Journal, nor
is it to be traced ; we know uot where it is s
You have had time enough to look after it.
You are now offered by Outes himself a copy
that was given him for a true copy, though lie
cannot swear by whom. Are you content that
shall he read, if the gentlemen will admit it?
L. Si off. By what I guess of Dr. Oates, (I
know him not) he would itot give in a copy of
an examination unless it were true ; if it be
true, I know not what should hinder the read-
ing of it : But as fur as concerns roe, 1 desire
it may He read.
X. H. S. You do consent, and will you,
gentlemen, permit it ?
Serj. Mayn. We do not know whence it
comes ; we cannot admit it unless Oates says
it is true.
^Sir W. Jones. My lords, it hath been long
in the Doctor's possession, he hath read it over,
he cannot say it is a true copy; hut I desire
to ask him whether all in tjiat writing be true,
and whether he did swear what is .in that
writing.
X H. S. If your lordships please thus, and
you gentlemen of the House of Commons, the
best way to have an answer to this question is,
that it may be read de bene esse.
Sir F. Win. Pray, my lords, let him read it
over to himself privately, and then let us know
whether he can swear the same things that
are in that paper.
(Which Dr. Oates began to do.)
Dr. Oates. Your lordships ask only as to my
lord Stafford ?
X H. S. My lord desires no more ; bnt pray
read it over ail, and give your answer to all ; for
that question, may be, will be asked in other
cases, and it is fit you should be provided for. it.
(Which he did.)
X. H. S. What say you, Doctor?
Oates. My lords, I do verily believe I did
swear the contents of that paper.
L. Staff. My lords, I do not oppose the read-
ing of that paper ; but I have here a copy of
something in the Journal, and do not stand
upon my memory ; but I think upon the view-
ing of it now, there is something in the copies
of the Journal.
Clerks. We cannot find it.
L. $taff. Then read this paper.
X. H. S.' Will you have this copy of the ex-
amination read, or not ?
L. Staff. Yes, my lords.
141 1 ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 6S0— Protecting* against ike (1417
Clerk. " The Examination of Titus Oates
clerk, taken before uV'— — ■
L. H. S. When was that ?
Clerk. The 24th of October, 1678.
L. H. S. That was read the 25tb, the next
day, in the House of Lords.
" The Examination of Titus Oat is, clerk,
taken by us this 34th of October, 1678.
This Examinant saith, That in the month of
May last, this examinant saw a patent under
the seal of the father-general of the society of
Jesus at Rome, called Johannes Paul us Oliva,
at the chamber of Mr. Langhorn, wherein it
was expressed, That by virtue of a Breve from
the Pope, he did constitute the lord Arundel of
Wardour Lord High Chancellor of England,
which patent was sent to the lord Arundel of
Wardour by a messenger, who was the son of
Mr. Langhorn. And this examinant saith,
That he saw a letter subscribed by the lord
Arundel of Wardour, as he believes, wherein
the lord Arundel did acknowledge the receipt
of the said patent, and accepted of the same,
and promised to answer the expectation of the
seciety. #
This examinant saith, That in June last he
saw the like patent, wherein the lord Powis was
constituted Lord Treasurer of England, which
patent was carried by one Parsons, secretary
to the lord Powis, from one Sanders's house in
Wild Street, to be delivered to the lord Powis ;
and at the delivery of the patent 300/. was
paid by Parsons to Fenwick and Ireland, to
carry on the design'of the Jesuits, which was
to raise a rebellion in the three kingdoms, and
9o destroy the king.
In the month or July this Examinant saw a
letter subscribed Pewis, • and directed to Fen-
wick, wherein hii lordship did acknowledge the
receipt of the said patent, and did accept of
the same, and said he bad three hundred men
and horse ready for the design, and that his
lordship would venture his life and fortune in
the affair.
In the month of August last this examinant
saw a letter directed to Mr. Langhorn by the
outside, but within to the Society of the Jesuits,
wherein sir W. Godolphin acknowledged he
had received the like patent to be Lord Privy
Seal, and had accepted thereof; and in July
1677, this examinant saw the same in the hands
of the archbiship of Tuam, at Madrid in Spain.
This Examinant saith, That in July last Mr.
Coleman acknowledged and confessed to Fen-
wick, in this Exatninant's presence, that be had
received the like patent to be secretary of state,
and that it was a good exchange.
This Examinant saitb, That in May,' June,
July, and August last, this Examinant saw
several letters signed Stafford, whereby it ap-
peared that the lord Stafford was in this con-
spiracy against his majesty, and that he had re-
turned several sums of money to the Jesuits to
carry on the design ; the letters were directed
to Fenwick and Ireland ; and in August last this
Examinant saw another letter, directed to the
same persons, signed Stafford, wherein my lord
writ, that although he had sent his son to Lis-
bon, yet he would believer the worse friend to
the Jesuits ; and this examinant conceiveth the
reason of that letter was, because there was
then a difference between the English college
at Lisbon and the Jesuits. In July last this
Examinant saw in the bands of Fenwick, a
commission directed to the lord Bellasis, from
the person aforesaid, to be lord genera* of the
army 'to be raised in England against his ma-
jesty ; and in July this examinant saw a letter
from my lord, directed to Fenwick, wherein his
lordship acknowledged the receipt of the com-
mission, and thanked the society for the same,
ancTtbat he accepted the same, and would do
what in him lay to answer their expectations.
In May last this Examinant saw a patent in
the hands of Mr. Langhorn, to make my lord
Pet res lieutenant general of the army ; and ia
June last this Examinant did hear my lord
Petres, in the presence of Mr. Langworth hit
confessor, acknowledge the receipt of the
same, and that he accepted thereof, and his
confessor wished him much joy thereof."
L. Staff. My lords, If this be owned for truth
that he swore, then I proceed upon the e«i- *
dence of that.
L. H. S. Without allowing it to be a troe
copy, Dr. Oates at the bar does swear what is
said there is true.
L. Staff. Then he says there, be saw letters
signed by me to Fenwick and others: I do
humbly desire to know whether that be evi-
dence or no, that a man says he saw letters,
and does not say he knew them to be my hand,
nor what the letters were in particular; no-
thing that he did prove of it I must appeal to
your lordsjups, to all my lords, to my Lord High-
Steward, and the rest that were of the council
at that time, Whether Dr. Oates did not posi-
tively name some, and left me oat at the coun-
cil-table ? And whether Dr. Oates did not say
there was no lord concerned in the Plot, and
whether some of my lords did not say so, and
told some other lords of it, from whom I had it ?
And in order to this, I desire sir Philip Uoyd
may be examined ; and if he did not Know of
my being in it, then he hath since fai sworn
himself.
L. H. S. My lord, I know not where you
are, nor what you are about : Are you object-
ing against Oates upoa any evidence out of the
Journal ?
L. Staff. My lo/ds» I go upon this that hath
been read.
X. If. S. Pray, my lord, produce your wit-
nesses that did hear him say any thing, and
take your advantage of it.
L. Staff I call sir Philip Lloyd.
L. H. S. Where is sir Philip Lloyd ?
L. Staff. My lords, I do not know; I dunk
he ia here, I hope he will come.
[Then he appeared amongst the Members of
the House of Commons, and was called to the
bar amongst the other Witnesses, and stood up.]
1413] ' STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. IG3Q— Five Tapith Lords.
[1<M*
X. H. S. What docs your lordship ask sir
Philip Lloyd ?
L. Staff. Whether he was not by when Dr.
Oates was asked, if there were any lords con-
cerned in the Plot, and he said, No; and whe-
ther be did not tell me so a day or two before
I was committed, in the Prince's lodgings ?
X. H. S. What say you, sir Philip Lloyd, did
you ever hear Dr. Oates deny upon his oath,
that ever he heard. of any lords that were con-
cerned in the Plot ?
Sir P. Lloyd. My lords, truly I cannot re-
member any such tiling: If my lord put me in
mind of any particular circumstance or time, I
may recollect it : I must confess I think I have
heard such a thing rumoured ; but I am so un-
fortunate I caunot remember any thing positive-
ly of it.
L. Staff. He did tell me so, I am sure.
Sir P. Lloyd. Truly, my lords, I would be
glad to remember any thing to justify the truth;
but I cannot remember this.
L. Staff. But whether it were so or no, your
lordships that were of the council can tell.
X. H. S. My lord, I do not know. Your
lordship cannot be refused, if you press it, to
ask any of the lords of the council, if they re-
member any such thing that did pass there ;
but if I were there or in the council, I deal
plainly with your lordship, I cannot say that
there was any such thing said.
L. Staff. If there be any here that were there
besides, 1 desire. they may be asked.
X. H. S, If your lordship will call upon any
other of my lords that were there, they will tell
you.
L. Staff. I do not know who were there, I
cannot call them.
X. H. S. You may ask any of the lords of the
council, who were there that time Dr. Oates
was examined.
Marq. of Worcester. My lords, I was not at
the council then.; but I heard it, not there in*
deed, but as a general report abroad.
L. Staff. I desire my Lord Privy-Seal may tell
.what he knows. of it.
Lord Privy Seal. What is it your lordship
would know of me ?
L. Staff, Whether Oates did not say be bad
no more to accuse ?
X. Privy- Seat. Where, my lord?
L. Staff At ike Council-Table.
X. Privy Seal. It is a very hard thing lor me
Co charge my memory with all the questions at
•n examination ; we use to refer to the exa-
minations themselves: I have seen some exa-
minations, I wish all were so, wherein the ques-
tions are put down as well as the answer; and
I cannot charge my memory that be said he
had no more to accuse.
L. Staff I desire, then, all the lords of the
• council that are here to say, whether or no he
was not asked this question particularly by my
Lord Chancellor, (and I desire particularly his
lordship would say whether he. cannot remem-
ber, it) Whether he had any thing to say against
some lords? And he Answered, They were to
know of it, but God forbid he should accuse
them.
X. B. S. When should that be?
L. Staff. My lords, I cannot say the day, fyr
I was not in town. Bat I desire to ask, whe-
ther you did not ask him upon the first dis-
covery of the Plot, whether he had any thing
to say against some lords ?
X. H. S. Do you desire to know whether I
asked him this question,. If he had any thing to
say against some lords?
L. Staff. I do not say positively your lord-
ship, but whether that question was not asked
him ?
X. H. S. Certainly I should never ask any
such question of any man alive. I might ask
in general of any lord, hut not of some.
L. Staff. Some or other lords it was.
X. H. S. I do not remember it ; and it is
impossible for any man living to remember what
questions he did ask two or three years ago
upon an examination.
L. Staff. I desire I may have leave to ask the
earl of Berkley a question.
X. H. S. What is it you wouUj ask him?
L. Staff. My lords, I humbly ask his lord-
ship, whether he did not hear Dr. Oates sny,
after he had accused some persons before the
council, that he had no more to accuse?
£. of Berkley. My lords, I had the honour
to be of the privy-council about the time of the
discovery ot the Plot ; but I do not remember
that I heard Dr. Oates say any such thing there.
L. Staff. Or in the House of Lords ; for I
may mistake. And therefore I desire my lord
of Berkley would declare what he heard Dr.
Oates say before the Honse of Lords.
E. of Berkley, Yes, my lords; in the Lords
House I will tell your lordships what I remem-
ber. My Lord Chancellor, to the best of toy
remembrance, did ask Dr. Oates, at the bar of
the House, this question— My lords desire to
know, if you can accuse any other person or
persons, of What quality soever, and you are
encouraged by their lordships to accuse them :
His answer was- My lords, I have no more
to accuse in relation to England, but in rela-
tion to Ireland I baye.
X. H. S. That was after he had accused your
lordship, my lord Stafford.
Sir FT. Jones. We pray, my lords, we majr
have the favour to ask that very honourable
lord, at what time, Dr. Oates said this, for the
satisfaction of those that are present.
Earl of Berkley. My lords, It was after
Dr. Oates had accused my lord Stafford, but
before he had accused the queen.
L. Staff I beseech you, my Lords, to mark
it, (and I am very glad of it) he said he had
no mora to accuse in relation to England, and
yet after that he accused the queen.
X. H. S. My lord, Then the best account of
it will be on the journal; the question and an-
swer is entered there.
October Zl, 1678, p.m.
" Titus Oates being at the bar, is directed &»
1 115] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II. 1680.— Proceeding against the [U16
proceed in giving* an account of the commis-
sions eiven to several lords and other persons
for offices civil and military. Upon which he
proceeded in a particular Narrative thereof,
with some circumstances tending to make out the
truth thereof, and was then commanded to with-
draw, but stay without. Then upon conside-
ration had hereof, the ford chancellor, by di-
rections of the House, caused him to be called
in again, and told him, that the Lords expect
not his entering into particular circumstances,
but if there be particular persons concerned, of
what quality soever they be, the Hodse expect-
ed he should name them : . but he named none
but those he had mentioned in his Narrative,
nor could name no other person/*
L. Stiff. Then my lords, he said, he knew
no persons more than he had discovered ; and
after, did he not accuse the queen, and se-
veral others ? If he said true, then he knew no
body more ; if not, he is forsworn.
Sir W. Jones, Pr»y prove he did accuse the
queen.
L.Staffl He did so in the. council, and he is
clearly perjured in that, and so not to be be-
lieved. And I say besides, after that Dr. Oates
had consulted with himself, and possibly with
tome others, what his Narrative should be,
and what he should accuse persons of and did
only accuse me of seeing some letters signed
Stafford, and now he comes to give evidence,
he knows more of my having a commission.
After this rate, it may be he may know a great
deal more tomorrow, when he bath invented it ;
And it is a great sign he did not know of any
wore, if he did know of that; for I never had
any^ correspond ence with the Jesuits, nor any
business transacted with them these 24 or 25
years. Indeed at Ghent the English Jesuits
were desired to do a little thing lor me, and
tbey refused it me ; it was to send over a man
diat was to be a witness in a suit I had beyond
sea: And I never writ one letter to a Jesuit
since, nor he to die, that I know of, nor never
had to do with them, that I know of. I never
heard of Fen wick's name, nor Harcourt's till I
heard of the Plot ; nor of Johnson nor Thomp-
son, Jesuits : And if any can prove it, I will
acknowledge myself guilty of all that is said
against me. And for that Dr. Oates at first
said, he only saw letters of mine, and after
comes and accuses me of a commission, I ap-
peal to your lordships if there can be any truth
or belief in him. I cannot say more than what
I have said already, and I do challenge Or.
Oates, at the day of judgment, to say, if ever
he saw me in his life till I was committed ; or
if I did ever go by any name but that of Staf-
ford, t will be content to die immediately. If
' I had gone by the name of Howard, I need not
be ashamed of it : for it is a name good enough
Co be owned. I know there is a worthy gen-
tleman that bears the name of Howard of
Effingham, but I never did. If your lordships
please to let me ask Mr. Dugdale one question.
X. H. S. Call Dugdale again. (Who ap-
peared) What say you to him, my lord?
L. Staff. I desire to ask Dugdale whether he-
did not, in his Depositions before Mr. Lane and
Mr. Vernon, swear, that the 20th of October I
offered him 500/. to kill the king?
Dugd. No, September.
L. Staff. Ay, September.
Dugd. Yes, I think I did make that Depo-
sition before captain Lane. I am certain I did
that my lord Stafford the 20th or 21st of Sep-
tember offered me 500/.
L. Staff. Then did he not say presently upon
this, he went to Mr. Evers's chamber ?
L. H. S. He savs so now.
Dugd. My lords, I am not certain it wsi
the same day ; it was as soon as I could bait
opportunity, it was presently after.
L Staff. Did he not say be to'd Evers what
I said to him, and he did not understand the
meaning of it ?
Dugd. I did say so to Mr. Evers: I did ask
Mr. Evers what my lord Stafford's meaaiog
was, whether his intention was true or no, to
do as he said, and whether my lord was in that
condition, as to be able to perform his promise,
for J feared payment of the money ; and jtf
told me, Harcourt and the rest of the Jenais
would furnish it.
L. II. & So he said yesterday.
L. Staff Then ask him if he did not say, the
beginnitig of September I« met him at Tiiaa,
and I spake to him about such a business.
Dugd. My lords, I did say, to the best of
my remembrance, it was* about that time, the
latter end of August, or the beginning of Sep-
tember, I would not be positive, nor could not,
10 rive days. r
L. Stuff. No, I think not to 5,000. pen I
asked him this question, whether he did not
presently upon that, when I told him •boot
the design, go to Mr. Evers, and asked what it
meant.
L. H. S. He said so bat now, he went to
Evers and asked what you meant. _^j
L. Staff I beseech you I may be »«***"*
whether he did not say in the begioning of Sep-
tember, which was before tbe 20th or 41st, »
the Journal.
L. H. S. Is it in the Journal ?
L. Staff Yes.
L. H. S. Why then read it.
December 28, 1678.
The earl of Essex acquainted the HoW^J*
he had received an information out.0/ ?!
country of very great concernment which im
read as followeth :
Stafford*.
December 24,1678.
The Information of Stephen D^flkJVdfc
late servant to the lord Aston of vm
concerning the Plot against oar soferos11
lord the king, as followeth: .
1. This informant saith, that F*"&!£L
one Howard, almoner to the queen, *J*r.
yond the seas, be was told by George oW0'
1417] STATE TRIAL* 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lards. [MIS
L. Staff. My lords, I find by this here, that
presently after one Howard, almoner to the
queen, went over, George Hobson, servant to my
lord Aston, told Dugdale there was a design to
reform the government, 6rc. I beseech your
lordships I may ask him, how long after be
went over this discourse was.
Dugd. I do not say I knew George Hobson
before he came to be a servant to my lord
Aston, which was in 1678, but that this was
only a discourse to me, that the plot had been
so long carrying on.
L. Staff. He says upon his oath, presently
after the almoner went over, he told him so.
Now the almoner went over three years before
that, when the proclamation came out to banish
the queen's servants for being Papists.
%Dugd. I heard it there; I never knew
George Hobson before he came to be a ser-
vant to my lord Aston, but I did not tell it as
a discourse at that time, or that it was more
than what I had from him, that there was such
a design so long before.
L. Staff, He says, presently after the almoner
went over, in his oath ; which was, I think, in
1672 or 73, or rather in 1675, about the end of
1674, as I remember. And he says presently,
three years after ; is that presently ? Even now
the end of August was the beginning of Sep-
tember, and bow long that was we cannot tell,
and now three years is presently after.
Sir W. Jones. He is telling of another's dis-
course with him.
L. H. S. My lord, you must observe that Dug*
dale says, that he did hear it from Hobson after
he came to my lord Aston 's service.
L. Staff. But he says, presently after the al-
moner went over; and it is impossible ; for he
did not say it till three years after, and so there
is no truth in him.
Dugd. My lords, it was, that Hobson told me,
that presently after the Almoner Howard went
over, there was such a design carrying on.
L. H. S. You distinguish not, and therefore
do not comprehend. It is one thing if Dug-
dale had said, that presently after there was
such a design, Hobson told htm so.
L. Staff. I beseech you, it is said, that pre-
sently after the almoner went over, Hobson'
told him so.
X. H. S. But it is not that presently after be
heard the discourse ; but George Hobson told
him, that presently after the almoner went over,
there was such a design.
L. Staff. It is said he was told presently
after.
/>
(servant to the said lord Aston) that there was
a design then intended for the reformation of
the government of the Romish religion .
S. He informeth, That in the beginning of
September, 1678, be met in Tixall, nigh the
lord's gates, the lord Stafford, who said to this
Informant, it was sad that they were troubled,
for that they could not say their prayers but in a
hid manner, but suddenly there would be a
reformation to the Romish religion; and if
there was but a good success, they should enjoy
their religion. And upon the 20th day of
September last, the said lord Stafford told this
informant that there was a design in hand, and
if this informant would undertake the design,
he should have a good reward, and make hinvi
self famous.
3. Upon the aforesaid day, .immediately
after, this informant went into the chamber of
Mr. Francis Urie, alias Evers (a Jesuit), in
Tixall- hall, and asked him what the lord Staf-
ford meant by those words ; and after he had
marie him to swear secrecy upon his knees, he
told him he might be n person employed in the
work, and have a good reward that would make
him famous : and then he told him he must be
instrumental with others in taking away the
king's life; and that it should be doue by
shooting or otherwise. And that this informant
need not to fear, for the pope had excommu-
nicated the king, and that all that were excom-
municated by him were heretics, and they
might kill them^ aud be canonized for saints in
so dome.
4. This informant saith, that the said Evers
end Hobson both said, that the design was as
well to kill the duke of Monmouth as the
king.
5. That George North (nephew to Pickering,
end servant to the lord Aston,) lately told this
informant, that they bad taken his uncle,
(meaning Pickering) and put him into New-
gate ; and thought the king deserved such an
execrable death as was intended him, because
of his whoring and debauchery.
6. That Mr. Evers said, Mr. Beonyfield had
a pacquet of letters delivered to him from the
Posthouse, which he feared the Lord-treasurer
had notice of, and therefore he delivered them
to the duke of York, and the duke delivered
tbem to the king, and that the king gave them
' to the treasurer, after be had read them ; but
that the king did not believe them, and there-
fore it was happy, or else the plot had been
discovered.
7. That he had received many pacquets of
letters for Even, some of which this informant
broke up, and found them to be and tend to
the establishment of the Romish religion, &c.
8. That he had received several sums of
money himself, and knew of divers others that
were employed to put forth money, which was
and is for the Jesuits use.
Stephen Dugdale.
Taken upon oath the 84th day of
December 1678, before us,
Tho. Lane. J. Vernon.
(Then the Information was read again.)
L. H. S. Do yon know when Howard the
almoner went over?
Dugd. No, my lords ; but by report I heard
when he wentt But I do not make that part of
my oath, for I cannot absolutely remember it.
L. H. S. My lord, you must not make a strain
to make a mistake;
L. Staff. God's life ! is three yean a strain ?
Dugd. I never did mean so, nor never did
1419] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL 16&0.— Proceedings against the [U20
intend so, for I never knew him till be came
to my lord Aston's ; but he told me then this
discourse.
X. If. S. My lord, this is only a question of
grammar, how it can be construed.
L. Staff. My lords, I beg your pardon ; it is
to my little reason a question of sense, and it
is plain to me it can have no other sense ; but
I submit it to your lordships, whether this be
not the true construction.
X. H. S. Go on, my lord, with your evidence,
notice will be taken of your objection; you
shall see what they say to it ; if they do not give
it an answer, it will have its weight.
Sir IF. Jones. We will give that an answer
in due time.
L. Staff. Then the next he says, I talked
with him at my lord Alton's the beginning of
September, where he met with me at Tixall at
the .gate, and I said, it was sad we could not
say our prayers, but in private. Truly, my Lords,
J cannot say I did not say this to bun ; but
if I did say it, I do not remember it, or that
I ever thought so much ; for I was so much of
* contsary opinion, that I thought those of that
religion said their prayers too openly, and have
chid them f+r it. And why should I speak it
to him, whom I did not know what religion
or what profession he might be of? And
.presently after I spoke of these things, be
says, he went to know what the design was,
and then Mr. Evers told him of the plot, and
yet yesterday he said he knew it sixteen years
ago. How can all this be true ? And besides
it seems I could have no great power with him
to persuade him, for it seems he mistrusted my
ability to pay ; and he had reason, for I should
'hardly have parted with 5Q0L in the condition
I was then in, to any one ; but I have no more
to say to him now. There is a third witness,
.one Turbervile, I desire to ask him a question.
X. H. S. Call Turbervile. (Who stood up.)
L. Staff. I desire to know what time he came
to serve my lady Molineux (for it is in the be-
ginning of the Information in the House of
Commons, that be came in the year 1673), and
how long he staid with her.
X. H.S. My lord Stafford, if your lordship
please, there was an offer made to you, that
those Affidavits should be produced, if you de-
.siredto see them.
L. Staff. I think I shall have no occasion as
yet ; it may be I may by and by : but I desire
to ask him this question first, Whether be did
*ay aecatne in 167S into my lady Mary Moli-
neux's service, and staid with her about three
years ? '
X. H. S. Did be swear in the year 1673 he
came?
L. Staff. It is so in his Narrative in print.
X. H.S* Do you own that Narrative in print
for true?
Mr. Tur. No, my lords.
X. .If. 8. How can you challenge him, then,
with a Narrative he does not own r
L. Staff. Then what can aman do, if lie must
not s^aceoading to what it printed?
Mr. Tur. There is a mistake io the pitting
of it, therets a mistake of 1673 for 1672.
L. Staff I now desire that Affidavit may be
produced.
X. JET. S. Pray let him have the benefit tint
was offered him of the Affidavit
Mr. Tur. Besides, I declared I could not be
positive to a year ; I own any thing else io it.
L. Staff. Then my lords, if I shall hate fel-
lows that will not swear to months nor to jean
I beg of your lordships to know whether these
be legal witnesses.
Manag. The Affidavit is in the custody of
sir W. Poulteney, a member of our house.
Sir IP. Poulteney. My lords, I have the
Affidavit ; if you please, I shall gire joa to
account what I did upon it, and sir Tboa*
Stringer, another justice of peace. My lords,
after that Mr. Turbervile bad given his Eiidtace
to the House of Commons, vim we, he ten-
dered to them this Information "that I haTe a
my hand. The House of Commons, after it
had been read, thought it might be convenient
to have it sworn to before two Justices of Peace.
Whereupon sir Tho. Stringer and nmetf with-
drew into the Speaker's chamber. Mr. Tarbcr-
vile came to us, we read over tbe informal**
to him again, and after we had read it ow i
was signed, and he swore it. In this Iniormaaoo
when we then took it, he declared there, That be
came to my lord Powis in tbe year 1673, ind
came iuto England 167 6. After we bad iwon
him, we carried this Infonnatioa into tbe Hook
agajn. The next morning, my lords, he esse
to me (I being one of the justices tbst had
sworn him) and told me, that searching smoef
his papers the last night for a letter, which hf
said he bad received from my lord Stafford, serf
to Diep ; though he could not find the letter he
looked for, yet he found that precise time that
he went to live with my lord Powis was 1672,*td
the precise time of iris comiqg into England ■»
.1675. And he desired me to acquaint tbe Has*)
of Commons with it, that this drcumstaaeeio
time might he altered. Whereupon, 07 ton*,
I did acquaint the House of Commons with it
how he was mistaken in thai point of a areas-
stance of time ; and that he tame of has*"
accord, and desired me to move the Hews**
it. I moved the House, and they did direct
we should withdraw again, and take k« '■*£
mation again, and that he. should amend it. as
amended it, and made the 7 3, 78 ; aad ft
75; and then afterwards we swore him tort
again de novo : and this is die matter of s&
concerning the Affidavit
X. H. S. Sir William Poulteney, did*.
Turbervile correct the mistake himself intf ¥
was it found altered by others?
Sir W. Poulteney. My lords, he came to «e,
for I did not know any thing of it, that he «*
mistaken ; but be came to me the next Buff-
ing as soon as ever I came to tbe Hoes?, hew*
indeed I entered into the House, and told s*
of tbe mistake; and laid me the reasons to*
became to recollect himself, and find ootti*
mistake.
U2Y] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords. [14«
X. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, I would ask you
die question, bow you came to be informed that
you bad mistaken yourself?
Mr. Tar. My lords, I will tell you: I was
searching for a letter I received from my lord
Stafford, and missing that, I found my discharge
I had from tbe French army, wherein L saw
a mistake as to the time, and that I have to
produce.
X. if., 5. I ask you again by the oath you
have taken, did you correct it of yourself, or by
information from any other ?
Mr. Tur. By the oath I have taken, I did
correct it of myself, and no body moved it to
me.
Serj. Mayn. It was but a circumstance of
time.
Sir F. Win, And corrected by himself the
very next morning, my Lords.
L. Staff*. He does acknowledge he did for-
swear himself once and did make himself an
honest man the next day, when be was a per-
jured villain the day before. And now lie tells
jour lordships, that he was searching for a let-
ter that I sent to him, but he cannot find it.
Mr. Tur. No, my Lords, I thought I had it,
but I cannot find it.
L. Staff. No, I will swear thou cansft not.
But then he does say that he bad a discharge
from the French army.
Mr. Tur. Yes, it is here, my lord.
X. H. & Is that the paper of your dis-
charge ?
Mr. Tur. Yes, it is. It is worn out a little
and torn, but the seal is preserved : I did not
know that ever I should have occasion to make
use of it ; but my lord challenging me for a
^coward, and a deserter of my colours —
L. Staff. I believe so still, for I have heard so.
L, n. S. Your honour is not in question,
Mr. Turbervile.
Mr. Tur. Tbe title is a little torn : and if
r our lordships please, I will read it : (which he of the gout in my life,
lid, being in French, and is rendered in English Mr. Tur. Your lore
L. Staff The thing looks like truth, but there
is no proof of it.
Mr. lur. The seal is a little broke, bet the
name remains perfect.
L. Staff. He says thfcre is a dismission from
the army in 1676; how will chat rectify his
mistake about 1673 ? I understand not' that.
Then the Court called for the Paper : and it
was looked upon by the duke of Monmouth,,
add some other lords.
X. H. S. My lord, this paper hath been
laoked upon ; the hand is weil known by those
that should know it.
L. Staff. I do not say the contrary.
X. H. 5. Whereabouts are you now, my
lord, then?
L. Staff. I am extremely faint and weary, that?
I am sure of. This gentleman told you yester-
day, that he spoke with me several times iir
France, and that he was conversant with me for
a fortnight together ; that he visiteti me, and I
proposed the 'kilring of the king to hiui ; and
that he refused to give me an answer- then, but
told me he would give it me at Diep : This he
said yesterday, as I remember. And after-
wards, when he was gone down, he came up
again, and desired to put your lordships in
mind of a particular circumstance which he
said he did remember, That when he came to
me, I had the gout, and was in a lower room of
the house, in such a street, which faced Luxem-
burgh house, all which I stand not upon; and
that the prince of Conde lived in the tame
street, on the left-hand he said first, after oa
the right-hand, and after he knew not where,
and that I did-Iodge in the same street.
Mr. Tur. I did say, I believed the prince of
Conde lived there, but I was not positive.
L. Staff No ; but first be swears a thing,
and then only believes it. Be pleased ro call
my servants, to know if ever I had my foot ill
your
did,
in these words :
" This certifieth all to whom it shall apper-
tain, that I have Riven an absolute discharge to
Che Sieur Turbervile, a cavalier of my company,
after having served the space of six months with
all horiour and fidelity. Therefore I desire
those that are to be desired, to treat him ci-
villy, and let bim pass and repass, and without
doing him- any injury, or giviog him any hin-
drance; but on the contrary, to afford him all
aid and assistance where it shall he necessary,
promising the like upon all occasions that shall
require it. In confirmation of which, I have
for bim signed this present discharge, and : there-
to pot tbe seal of my arms, to serve him in case
he shall need it. Made at the camp before
Aire this 4th of August, 1676. Sheldon."
X. JET. S. What is the date of that discharge,
Turbervile?
Mr. Tur. It it in August 1676.
L. Staff. May I see it, my Lords ?
lordship told me it was tbe
gout.
was done, and he looked upon it.)
L. Staff If ever I put my foot on a stool, or
was lame there, I will own all that he says.
But when a man swears his evidence, and
goes down from the place, and then invents,
and comes up again to tell new stories, who"
shall believe such a man ?
Mr. Tur. I never went from the bar.
L, Staff. I do say, yon went down, and bad
given all your evidence, and came up again,
and told this circumstance. I have not been
lame, not one moment, these 40 yeArs: and
yet this fellow, this impudent fellow, to say,
that I was lame, and put my foot upon a stool 1
He does not, my Lords, swear positively in any
thing but this, and this I can easily disprove
him in.
X. H. S. What say you to this particular,
Turbervile? Had my lord Stafford never the
gout while he was in France? '
Mr. Tur. He told me it was the gout, my
L.H.S. Yes. Deliver it to my lord. (Which Lords: He had a great lameness, he could not
go from one
place
4
to another. Here are
1433] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceeding* igam* de [UU
several people to give testimony that my lord
was lame within less time than he says.
Mr. Foley. Hold, hold, Turbervile, you must
not give that evidence now.
L. Staff. Call Nicholas Fnrnese again.
X. H. 8. What do you call him for ?
L. Staff Ask whether ever he saw Mr. Tur-
bervile with me in France ?
X. H. S. Were you with my lord Stafford all
the while he was in France? t
Furnese. Yes, my Lords.
X. If. S. Did you never see Turbervile
there ? .
Furn. No.
X. H. 8. Pray, did you never see Father An-
thony Turbervile there ?
Furn. No, my Lords, I never heard of his
name.
L. Staff Was I ever one moment lame while
I was in France?
Furn. Not that I remember.
X. if. S. How long was my lord there ?
Furn. About three months.
X. H. & What time of the year?
Furn, At Paris in October and November,
in December at Rohan, in January we came
over into England.
L. Staff. Ask him if ever I put my foot upon
a eushioaor upon a stool for lameness.
X. JET. S. Mr. Turbervile, did you ever see
Furnese when you were in France ?
Tur. This man, my Lords?
X. H. 8. Yes.
Tur. No, not that I remember*
X. H. 8. In what quality did you serve my
lord in France, Furnese?
Fur. My Lords, I waited on him in his
chamber. .
X. If. S. Do you remember any other ser-
vant of my lord's that you did see there ?
Tur. Truly, my Lords, I do not remember, I
might ibrtet mm.
L. Staff So I believe thou dost me too.
Tur. Your lordship that ' could call me
coward, may say any thing.
L. Staff. You shall he as valiant as Hector,
if you will. Pray call iny other boy. (Who
stood up.)
X. H. S. You little boy, Were you all the
while with my lord that he was in France ?
Leigh. Yes, my lords.
X. If. S. Did you ever see Turbervile
there?
Leigh. No, my lords, not that I know of?
X. If. S. Had my lord the gout in France?
Leigh. No ; nor never had since I have
been with him.
X. H. S, That U six years.
Leigh. Seven years almost, my lords.
X- H. 8. Axe you sure of that ?
Leigh. I am sure of it.
L. Staff. Now, my lords Mr. Turbervile
lays, 1 writ him a letter to Diep, which letter
he cannot find; I beseech you, what were the
eootents of the letter ?
X. If. 8. What were the contents of the let-
ter my lord sent you ?
Tur. The contents of the letter were, Tbas
I should not stay at Diep in expectation of bin,
for he had np pom ted a yacht to come toCaliB;
but I should make what haste I could to Loo-
don, and there I should meet with him.
L. Staff. I desire to ask, whether I sent \am
word that count Oramont came over with
me.
Tur. Yes, my lords, to the best of mj re-
membrance.
L. Staff. I shall now bring witnesses that i
•did not come by Calais, but by Diep, and coast
Gramont came not with me.
X. If. S. Mr. Turbervile, which way cum
you, from Diep, or from Calais ?
Tur. From Diep, my Lords.
L. Staff And I came from Diep too.
X. H. S. My lord came that way too, hi
says.
Tur. I know not of that, be sent ne mid
otherwise.
L, Staff. I shall now prove what I say. Pray
call Mr. Wy borne. (Who stood up.)
X. H. S. What do you ask him, my lord?
L. Staff Whether he did not see meat Diet,
and embark from thence for England ?
Mr. Wyborne. My lords, I will gfre yon so
account as well as I can. In 1675, in Decsnv
ber, I had occasion to go over into France
upon my own concerns ; and enquiring watte
there was a convenience to go over, I beard
that a yacht was sending to Diep for my lord
Stafford, and Mr. Henry Sidney, his majetfj'i
envoy extraordinary now in Holland : I took
that occasion, and we weighed anchor on Fri-
day the 24th of December : and it being fool
weather, and we being tossed lung upon inr set*
• we did not come to an anchor before Diejf tail
the Sunday was setanight at 9 o'clock io the
afternoon, which was January the f «d. Tbea
I came with the captain immediately on shore,
to enquire for my lord and Mr. Sidney ; I es-
quired for my lord, and they told me he was at
Rohan, expecting to hear of the arrival of tat
yacht : Upon which the captain desired me to
write a letter to my lord, and I did so; upoa
Bight of which letter, he came to Diep on Toe*
day in the afternoon, which was, as I take it,
the 4th of January, and we were at the fiutOe
there then together when be came that evening.
And the neit day I went on my own occasion*
to Paris, and my lord and Mr. Sidney did osse
over together in the yacht.
L. Staff.' If you please, I will call mj two
servants again to this matter.
X. If. S. Call them, my lord.
Then Furnese and Leigh stood up.
X. H. S. Which way came my lord Staf-
ford out of Frauce into England, by Diep or
Calais ?
Furn. Bv Diep.
X. H. S. ' What say you, boy ? Which wtj
came my lord ?
Leigh. By Diep, my lords.
X. if. S. xou came with bio ?
Leigh. Yes, we did.
14*5]
STATE TRIALS, 32Cham.xs II. 1680.— Fine Popish lard*. [142ff
L, H. & My lord, the question is not, whe-
ther you came by Calais or no, but whether you
'writ a letter to him to Diep, that you would go
by Calais.
L. Staff. He swore yesterday that I did
come by Calais.
L. H. S. Do you say my lord came by Ca-
lais ?
Tur. My lords, I had a letter from his Jord-
' ship, which he wrote lo me, that he would come
by Calais
L. Staff. lie did not name the letter yester-
day, nor is it in the Information.
X. H. S. Read the Affidavit.
The INFORMATION of EDWAED TuRBESVILE,
of Skeer, in the county of Glamorgan,
gent.
Who saith, That being a younger brother,
about the year 1672, he became gentleman-
usher to the lady Mary Molineux, daughter to
the earl of Powis, and by that means lived in
the house of the said earl above thnee years ;
and by serving and assisting at mass there,
grew intimate with William Morgan, confessor
to the said earl and his family, who was a Je-
suit, and rector over all the Jesuits in North
Wales, Shropshire, and Staffordshire. And he
during the three years time often lieard the said
Morgan tell the said earl and his lady, That
the kingdom was in a high fever, and that no-
thing but bloodletting could restore it to health,
and then the Catholic religion would flourish.
Whereunto the said earl inanv times replied, It
was not yet time, bat he doubted not hut such
means should be used in due time ; or words
to that effect. And he heard the lady Powis
tell the said Morgan and others, publicly and
privately, That when religion should % be re-
stored in England, which she doubted not but
would be in a very short time, she would per-
suade her husband to give 3 00/. per annum, for
• foundation to maintain a nunnery. And this
informant was persuaded by the lady Powis,
mod the said Morgan, to become a friar ; the
said lady encouraging this informant thereunto,
by saying, That if he would follow his studies,
and make himself capable, she questioned not
but be might shortly be made a bishop by her
interest in England ; because upon restoration
of the Catholic religion, there would want peo-
ple fit to make bishops, and to do the business
of the church. And thereupon she gave this
informant 10/. to carry him to Dow ay, where
this informant entered the*monastery, and con-
tinued about three weeks, and with much dif-
ficulty made his escape thence, and returned
for England ; for which the said earl and hjs
lady, and all the rest that encouraged him to
go to the monastery, became his utter enemies,
threatening to take away his life, and to get his
brother to disinherit him : Which last is com-
passed against him. 'And Father Cud worth,
who was then guardian of the friars at Doway,
some days before his escape thence, told this
informant, That if he should not persevere
with them, he should loss his life and friends :
VOL. VIJ*
And further added, That this king should not.
lust long, and that his successor should be
wholly for their purpose. And Father Cross,
provincial of the friars, told this informant,
That had he been at Doway when this inform-
ant made bis .escape thence, he should never
have come to England. And this' informant
finding himself friendless, and in danger in
England, went to Paris, where one of his bro-
thers is a Benedictine monk, who persuaded
this informant to return for England ; and in
order thereunto, about the latter end of No-
vember, 1675, he was introduced into the ac-
quaintance of the lord Stafford that he might
go for England with his lordship, and three
weeks he attended his lordship, and had great
access and freedom with his lordship, who gave
him great assurances of his favour and interest
to restore him to his relations esteem again :
And said, That he bad a piece of service to
propose to this informant, that would not only
retrieve his reputation with his own relations,
but also oblige both them and their party to
make him happy as long as he lived. And
this informant being desirous to embrace s?
happy an opportunity, was very inquisitive
after the means ; but the said lord Stafford be-
ing somewhat difficult to repose so great a trust
as he was to communicate to him, exacted all
the obligations and promises of secrecy, which
this informant gave his lordship in the most
solemn manner he could invent. Then hit
lordship laboured to make this informant sensi-
ble of all the advantages that should accrue to
this informant, and the Catholic cause; and
then told this informant in direct terms, That
be might make himself and the nation happy,
by taking away the life of the king of England,
who was an heretic, and consequently a rebel
agair.st God Almighty. Of which this inform-
ant desired his lordship to give him time to
consider, and told his lordship that he would
give him his answer at Diep, where his lordship
intended to ship for England, and to take this
informant with him ; but this informant going
before to Diep, the lord Stafford went with
count Gramont by Calais, and sent this inform*
ant orders to go for England, and to attend his
lordship at London : But this informant did
not attend his lordship at London, but went
into the French service, and so avoided the lord
Stafford's further importunities in that affair.
And this informant further saith, That one Re-
mige, a Frenchwoman, and vehement Papist,
who married this informant's brother, lived with
the lady Powis all the time this informant re-
sided there and some years since, and was the
great confident of the said lady ; and the said
Kemige was for the most part taken with her
ladyship into Morgan's chamber, when the
consults were held there, where he hath often
seen Father Gavan, Father Towers, Father
Evans, Father Sylliard, Roberts, White, Owens,
Barry, and the earl of Castlemaine, and other
Priests and Jesuits, meet and shut themselves
up in the said Morgan's chamber, sometimes
for an hour, sometimes for two hours, mere or
4Y
1427 J STATE TRIALS,. 32 Chaulm II. 1650.— Proeudingi against tht £142*
less ; and at the breaking up of the said con-
sults, have broke out into an extacy of joy, say-
ing, They hoped ere long the Catholic. religion
would be established in England, and that they
did not doubt to bring about their design, not-
withstanding tlvey had met with one great dis-
appointment, which was the peace struck up
with Holland ; saying, That if the army at
Black-heath had been seut into Holland to as-
sist the French king, when he was with his
army near Amsterdam, Holland had certainly
been conquered, and then the French king
would "have been able to assist us with an army
to establish religion in England. Which ex-
pressions, with many others, importing their
confidence to set up the Romish religion, they
frequently communicated to this informant.
And the said Morgan went several times into
Ireland, to London, and several other parts of
England, as this informant hath just cause to
believe, to give and take measures for carrying
on the design : And the said Bemige and her
husband having first clandestinely sold their es-
tate, and fled into France about May or June
last, for fear of discovery ; this informant by
many circumstances being assured that the said
Mrs. Remige was privy to all or most of the
transactions of the riot. And lie saith, That
about May last was two years, be was present
at mass with the lord Powis in Vere-ttreet,
when the earl of Castlemaine did say mass in
liis priestly habit, after the rites and ceremo-
nies of the Church of Rome.
Edwakd Turbervile.
Sworn the 9th day of November, 1680, be-
fore Thomas Stringer, William Poulteney, and
Edmund Warcapp.
X. H. S. My l>rd, this affidavit is to the
purpose to which you call for it ; this does say,
that your lordship did go by the way of Calais,
it does absolutely so.
X. Staff. Now, whether he be forsworn or
no, your lordships may judge by these three
witnesses.
Mr. Tur. My Lords, That which I grounded
my belief of bis going to Calais upon, and so
consequently that affidavit, was the letter
which I received from my lord ; which I have
looked for, but cannot find.
X. H. S. This affidavit does not say you went
from Calais to England, but you went with
count Gramont to Calais.
Ld. Stuff. I conceive, my Lords, this affi-
davit and his narrative are word for word the
tame, only that amendment of 1672 for 1673,
upou which I observed before he was forsworn
(nice. I cannot tell what to say, if this man
can be believed.' And count Gramont came
to Diep too. But besides, my Lords, in this
affidavit he does not say ho believed so by the
letter, though now he speaks of one.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, was count Gra-
mont in your lordship's company when you
Came to Diep?
Ld. Staff. No, my Lords, he was in England
before me a month; but, my Lords, I cannot
deny but I had one recommended to come over
with me, that pretended himself tobeaFreocfe
count, but the man was as arrant a rascal
as this that swears against me ; and that was
one that called himself count de Brienne, whom
all the world knows to be a cheat.
L. H. & Call your other witnesses* n»J
lord,
Ld. Staff Where is John Miohead? (Who
stood up.)
X. H. 8. Who do you belong to?
Minheadr My lord Poivis.
Ld. Staff My Lords, Mr. Turbervile, fat
says, by the persuasion of my lady Powis went
to Doway, and he staid in the monastery three
weeks, and not liking that life, he came away
(this may be true, 1 say nothing to it) : but
that which I take exception at, is this ; be
says, for this the earl of Powis and bis lady,
when he came back from Do way, were very
angry with him, and so were all his relations,
and he stood in fear of his life from tbesa.
Surely when Mr. Turbervile knew he was ia
such danger, he would not have come near
them: pray ask this gentleman, whether he
was at my lord Powis's, and how he was ento
tained.
X. H. S. Do you know Turbervile ?
Minh. Yes, my Lords.
.X. H S. Have you seen him at my loce*
Powis's?
Minh. Yes, my Lords.
X. H. S. How was he received there?
Mink. Very well, my Lords.
X. H. 8. When was that?
Minh. In the year 1675.
X. H. S. Was that before or after be cams
back to England ?
Minh. It was after he came from Doway,
X. H. S. What countryman are you?
Minh. A Frenchman.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Mink. A Roman Catholic.
Ld. Staff.' Pray ask him whether be lay is
my lord's house ? *
Mink. Yes, my Lords, he lay with me in my
lodgings.
Ld. Staff. And yet be says he waa afraid of
h\» life.
X. H. S. Did ray lord know he lay there?
Minh. Yes, he must needs, because he camt
through the room to go to bed.
Ld. Staff. May it please your lordships, be
says he was threatened that he should have bis
brother disinherit bin, and which afterwards
was compassed. Now I shall shew that this it
impossible, for He bad no inheritance to lose,
nor was to have none ; for his brother, who it
elder than be (this man being by a second ven-
ter), hath children, as I snail make appear
by another of his brothers, who is here. And
this not being settled upon him, who was by
the secoud venter, could not come to him; bat,
for want of issue of. that brother, must go to ths
uncle. So he swears he was disinherited of
an estate, when he was to have no estate, nor
could bare. Call Mr. Jeho Turbervile; (Wfc
1499] STATE TRIALS, S3 Chahlis II. 16W.— Fix Popish Lords. (1480
appeared). My Lords, I desire you to ask
him, whether he knew that upon his coming
back to England he was ill used ?
J. Tur. I never knew any unkind ness from
my elder brother to him.
L. H. S. Are you his brother ?
J. Tur. Yes, my lords, by the father, not by
4fce mother.
X. H. 8. Well, what can yon say ?
J. Tur. I never heard any thing when be re-
turned from Doway, that he was ill received
t>y my lord Powia; bat in a few days after my
brother and sister came to town, we went to
Bloomsbary, and there we met together: And
roy brother complaining that he was unfortu-
nate, hi that he had undertaken what he could
not perform in going beyond sea, and ndw
wanted a livelihood; my eldest brother told
him, he had done as far as his ability, he could
do no more, it was his own choice, and he had
no more to say.
Ld. Staff. Had he any money from his rela-
tions?
J. Tar. He made intercession by friends to
my sister, and she told me, that the gave him
7i. to bear his charges to Paris, with that pro-
viso, that he would never trouble them more.
L. U. S. But they were not angry with him ?
J. Tur. Here be is, he cannot say they ever
gave him an angry word in their days ; I am
sure I never did.
L. H. S. Did you forbid him the house?
J. Tur. No.
Ed. Tur. These are people that take not the
oaths of allegiance and supremacy, and there-
lore are not fit to be witnesses.
Ld. Staff. Now your lordships see what a
villain he is.
Serjeant Maynard. You must give good
words, my lord, for none but good words are
given you.
Ld. Staff. I must call them villains, or myself
traitor.
L. H. S. You say they gave him It. upon
condition they should never see him more.
J. Tur. I did not say, my sister said upon
condition she would give him 7/. he would
never trouble us more: It was his declara-
tion.
Ld. Staff. One thing I would ask Mr. Tur-
bervile more, and that is about this man's
beiog disinherited :• Whether he could, or whe-
ther he was heir to an estate or not?
L. H. S. What say yoo to it?
J. Tur. By all the information of our rela-
tions, the estate was made by my grandfather to
my father for life, and after my father's life, to
roy mother ; and after, my mother's life, to- my
eldest brother, and the heirs male of his body ;
and for want of such, afterwards to me, and
the heirs male of my body ; and in case I had
none, then to my father's brother, and his heirs
zaale ; and if he had no heirs male, then after
that to the right heirs of the grandfather. This
was before my time. >
L. H. S. Well, then, that remainder to the
nghf heks might come to him ; and so there
was some estate for him to lose, and that re*
mainder might be docked by the tenant in
tail. I would ask, was there any recovery suf-
fered to bar -that entail ?
J. Tur. Yes, I think there was one upon my
brother's marriage.
L. H. S. Mr. Turbervile, were you told you
should be disinherited ?
E. Tur. Yes, my lords.
L. H. S-. Who told you so?
E. Tur. My eldest brother.
L. H. S. What did he tell you ?
E. Tur. He told me it should not come to
me.
L. H. S. How should it come to you ?
E. Tur. I am not so good a lawyer as to tell
that, whether it could or no; but i thought by
succession.
L. Staff. Then he says he came to serve my
lady Motlinenx in 1678; it may be it is so as
he says, 1 do not know it of my owrt knowledge;
but I pray he may answer, whether it was ia
1671, or 1672.
E. Tur. In January or February, 1671.
Mr. Treby. That is in the beginning of the
. year. 1672, according to the almanack.
L. Staff. My lords, for the present I do not
remember any thing more — Oh, yes, my lords,
he says he was at such a time a* my lord
Powis's, when my lord Castlemaine was at
Powis-Castle, which must be either in the year
-1672, 1673; or 1674. Now I desire you would
ask Mr. Lydcot, whether my lord Castlemaine
was there, or could be there in any of those
years (Then Lydcot stood up).
L. H. S. What do yon ask him, my lord I
L. Staff. I desire to ask htm, whether in the
year 1672, 1673, or 1674, which are the years
Turbervile says he was at my lord Powis's at
Po wis- Castle, whether my lord Castlemaino
was at Powis-Castle, or could be there at that
time.
L. H. S. Was my lord Castlemaine there in
any of those years ?
Lydcot. My lords, I can prove he was not,
as much as 1 am capable of proving a negative.
I was with him in the years, 1672, 1671, and
1674.
L. H. S. Where ?
Lydcot. He was in England in 1673 ; I was
with him all the while, and I am sure since!
knew him he was never in Wales, and I was
never absent from him since I knew him (which
is nine years), not four months in all : I have
travelled with him, and been abroad with him.
L. H. S. Turbervile, when do you say my
lord ^Castlemaine was at Powis-Castle ?
Tur. I think it was in the year 1673.
L. H. S: By what token do you remember
him there ?
Tur. He was arguing with ray lord Powia
about religion, and several times he did eo : I
believe it was in the year 1673.
L. H. S. What say you to that ?
Lyd. I can assure your lordships he was not
there then ; I was always with him that year :
he had many times a design to go there, hat
1431} STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 6S0 ProcetdiAgt agakiM the [1400
lie could not but put it off ; and the last time
he was there, lean prove it was 15 years ago.
X. if. S. I desire to know of you this,
friend; can you take it upon you to affirm
upon the faith of a Christian, that you were
never from my lord Castlemaine all the year
1673 ?
Lyd. I can give an account to half a week
where he was ; and when 1 was absent from
him, it was beyond sea, and all that while I
kept correspondence' with him every post, and
received letters from him constantly once a
week, dated from Liege ; this was in the time
of ray absence.
X. if. 6'. Were you at Liege when my lord
was in England, or were you with him all the
time be was in England ?
Lyd. My lords,! was with him all the time
he was in England, and was never absent from
I him all that compass of time, but when he sent
me into England from Liege.
X. if. S. Then he was at Liege himself?
Lyd. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. Was (hat in the year 1673 ?
Lyd. Yes, my lords, I was then in England.
But, my lords, I can give you a whole account,
for my lord and I never made any journies, but
I put them down.
X. U. &« You say you can give a particular
account of the whole year 1673, even to the
compass of four days in that year at most.
Lyd. No, my lord, I do not say so ; but I
say I cau give an account of the whole time I
have been with him within four mouths.
X. H. S. Were any of these four months
within the year 1673 ?
Lyd. No : I was with him all the year 1673.
. X. if. S. Will you take it upon you to say,
That every day in 1673 you were with my lord ?
Lyd. Every day, my lords.
X. if. S. Every week?
Lyd. Ye$, I do not think but that I was.
My lord did me the honour to make me as it
were his companion.
Serj. Maynard. No, yon do yourself the
honour to make yourself his companion ; he
made you his servant.
X. if. S. Come, where are your notes you
Jretend to speak by ? your Diary, or your
oornal ? Let us hear a whole account of the
year 1673 ; for you come to testify as if you
could give an account of every day.
Lyd. I did not think any question of this
nature would come on the stage ; there is my
lord's steward can give a very good account
of this by bis account- books, which are all ready
to be produced : be can tell where my lord
was, by laying out such and such monies. And
it is an hard thing to give a testimony after so
many years, of a thing that we thought not
would ever be a question.
X. if. S. Let us see your notes.
Lyd. My lords, 1 will read it to your lord-
ships.
X. Hd 8. When was this written ?
Lyd. I took this out of another book.
X. if. & When ?
Lyd. Lately, since Mr. Torberfile'f Nana*
tive came out.
Sir W. Jones. Ob, I desire that may be ob-
served.
L. . Stof. If your lordships please, I deem
that he may bring his books, Oh, Ob ! will not
condemn me, but law and justice : 1 am not to
be run down with Oh, Oh ! or what such ins*
pudent villains as these say.
X. if. S. Read what you have there.
Lyd. From Liege we set forth to Paris, Ja-
nuary 1, 1678, where we staid three weeks, and
arrived thence at London, January 24; there
we staid till May 1673, and from thence we
went to Liege again in June* and from liege
we set forth to London in August, and returned
October the 3d, 1673.
X. B. S. Were you all the while between
August and October in London ?
Lyd. I am morally certain, that I did not go
from my lord all that time.
X. U. S. Where were you after October ?
Lyd. Which October, if yourlord&hip please?
X. H. S. October, 1678.
Lyd. At Lieee ; for we returned to Liege at
October the 3d, and then after this my lord
sent me into England. I left him aiXiege,
and from thence I set out for England ; and in
January I ret unfed to Liege," which was the
greatest part of time that I was ever absent
from him.
X. if. S. And was he at Liege, are yon sure,
all that time from October to January i
Lyd. Yes, except he flew : for I sent letters
by the foreign post, and received letters by the
foreign post every week. .And hi* ac*"UnK
books will speak it.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we desire to ask
him one question, (since he can give so exact
an account) whether my lord Ca^tletnaine was
in England, 1672 ; and how much of that year?
Lt/d. Yes.
Sir W. Jones. How. many months of the year
1672, was he in England ?
Lyd. I read it before. We arrived from
Liege to London, January 24th, 1672, and stajd
at London till May, 1673.
X. 12. S. But where was my lord ail the year
1672?
Lyd. Pray, my lords, do yoe memo New*
Stile or Old Stile?
X. if. S. When I speak of his being at Lea-
don, I mean the stile of the country.
Sir W. Jones. Then, under favour, he speaks
of the latter part of the year : I desire to
know, whether my lord, for all the former part
of the year was in England ?
X. H. S. Where was my lord in December
1672, and in November before that, and in all
the year op backwards ?
Lyd. My lords, I have told yon the whole
year.
X. if. S. But where was my lord from Ja-
nuary 1671, to January 1674 ?
Lyd. In 1671, June the 19th, New-Stile,
we came to London, and returned in September
to Liege ; from liege we set forth to Par%
1433} . • STATE TRIALS, 32 Chaklbs IL 1080.— Frw? Pdptih Lord*.
[MM
January 1, 167* ; Mid arrived at London, Ja-
qoary 24.
X. J?. 5. He runs past the time.
. Sir JF. Jones. My lords, we ask him a plain
question, bat he does oot answer it ; he slips
over the time that we desire your lordships to
ask him about.
; L. Staff. I beseech yonr lordi hips that it may
be made plain, that there may nothing be said
afterwards that it was not plain.
lafd. Sir, do you propose any thing to fee,
and I will answer it.
Sir W. Jonti. Answer not us, answer my
lords.
Lyd, I desire any body may peruse my notes,
if they please.
X» H. 8. Pray, Sir, answer the question,
which in very short terms is this, where my
lord Castleniain was aH the whole year 1673 ?
Lyd. Well, my lords, I will ; I can but read
it over again. From Liege we set forth to
Paris, January 1, 167$.
X. U. 8. Are you not a rare fellow now !
Lyd. My lords, I understand it according to
the stile of that country when I am there, and
of this place when I am here.
- X. H. S. Answer me according to oar stile,
Lyd. This that I have written here, in the
book ont of which I took h, hath been written
ever since that time; and I did not think I
ahould ever be called to account about it.
. L. H. S. Begin January the 1st, 1671.
Lyd. We went from Liege to Paris, where
we staid about a week, or such a time, and we
arrived at London January the 94th, that is
the Old-Stile) and staid at London till May the
Otb, 1673.
JL H.S. That is impossible, for yoa escape
a year and an half together.
Lyd. My lord was here in England in Jan.
L. H. 8. You begin very gravely with Janu-
ary, Sttfo veteri, that yoa cause from Liege ;
and so January the 44tb, Stibvttcri, yoo came
to London.
Lyd. When I speak of any stile, I understand
it according to the stile of the country.
- JL If* S. But in your account, what is be-
come of all the time from January, 1671, to
January, 1679; say and swear, if yoa can,
where my lord was all that rime.
Xatf. He mast, be in London.
£. H. A Can yoa take it upon year oath,
that my lord was in London from January
1671, O S. to May 1670, 0. 8. ?
Lyd. I cannot knew how to count tetter
than I have done.
1*. Staff. Mr. TuittYriltsats, my lord Castle-
marine was in 1678 at Po%h>€tatfe ; I beseech
yoar lordships this man rafr he asked, and that
without any interruption, where my lord was
that year.
Sir W. Jones. With your lordships favour I
wast desire yourlordships to ask Mr. Turber-
vile whether he did say positively the year
la?$ ; for if my ears and my notes do not fail
mo, he said, as he remembered ; and that is
the reason why we ask about the year 1679*
Mr. Turl My fords, I do not lay positively,
nor cannot, winch year it was.
Lyd, My lords, 1 do stand upon it* that ha
was in London January, 1679, and went away
May 1673.
L. H* 8. What becomes of the mean time,
between January, 1671, and May 1678 ?
Lyd. My lords, I explain myself as well as I
can. *
X. H> 8. My Lord Stafford, will yon call
any more witnesses ?
L. Staff. Yes, my lord*
L. H. 8, Call them then.
E*rl o( Shaftesbury. My Lord High Stewarts,
I desire my lord Stafford may be asked how
many witnesses my lord hath more, for it now
grows late.
X. H. S. My lord, I desire to know bos?
many witnesses you have more ?
L. Staff. Three or four ; I cannot tell well
how many.
Lerd$* Ad|oufn, adjourn.
X. H. 8. is it your lordships pleasure that
we do adjourn ?
Lord: Ay, ay.
X. H. S. Then this House is adjourned into
the parliament-chamber.
Then the Lords returned in their former
ordef to their House, and the Commons went
back to their House.
Mr. Speaker resumed the chair, and a Mes-
sage from the Lords was sent by sir Timothy
Baldwin and sir Samuel Clarke.
Mr. Speaker ; The Lords have sent us to ac-
quaint this House, that they have ordered the
prisoner) William viscount Stafford, to be
brought again to his trial at the bar in West-
minster-Hall, to-morrow morning at ten o'clock.
Thb FouJtTH Day.
Friday, Decembers, 1680.
About the hoar of ten in the morning the
Lords adjourned into Westminster- ball and re-
turned m their former order into the court there
erected ; and Mr. Speaker having left the chair
the Commons were seated as before mentioned.
The court being sat,ProdamationAfbr silence
was made, and the lieutenant of the Tower
commanded to bring his prisoner to the liar ;
which being done the Lora-High-Steward spake
to the prisoner as followeth. '
X. H. 8. My lord Stafford, your lordship's
defence took up yesterday. AM the day was
employed in bearing your lordship's witnesses
to impeach the credit of the testimony that
hath been given against you. Your lordship
hath excepted against Dugdatet because you
were not at Tixall, as he snys you were, neither
the latter end of August, nor the beginning of
September, till the 12th; and when you were
there, you never sent for him to your chamber,
but yoar man upon his own desire, brought
htm : And when be came there, the business
was to desire you to get leava that he might
go to the race ; and there wis no opportunity
of private discourse, because your men were
1435]
TRIALS,
in the room all the while ; that Dugdale hath
ofteo said he knew nothing of the Plot ; that
he swore falaly, when he said he told of the
letter about the death of sir Edmund bury God*
frey before it was known he was kilted, and
when he said that Hobson told him presently
after the almoner went oyer, which was three
years before Hobson came to my lord Aston's
service. Your lordship bath likewise objected,
that he hath corrupted persons to swear falsi j
againbt yon and others, as Robinson the opbol-
lerer against your lordship, Morrall the barber
against sir James Symonds, and Holt the black-
smith to swear that one Moor carried away
Even. Your lordship hath endeavoured to dis-
credit Oates, by his saying he knew nothing of
any other persons that were concerned in the
Plot, and after accusing the queen. Your
lordship hath impeached the credit of Turber-
vjje, by proving that you came home by Diep,
and not by Calais, as he says you did ; that
you had never the gout while you were in
fiance, nor, as your page says, for these seven
years; that my lord Castlematne was not at my
lord Powis's in the year 1673, and there you
left off. This I take is the sum of what your
lordship says; if I do you any wrong, your
Jordship will put me in mind of it.
L. Staff. I thank your lordship, you have
done it with great equity and truth.
X. H. S. Then go on.
X. Staff, The next witness that I call is one
John Porter. (.Who stood up.)
X. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. John Porter.
X. H. S. What profession are you of?
Forter. -A butler.
X. if. S. To whom ?
Forter. To my lord Powis.
L. Staff. My lords, I desire your lordships
would ask him what Mr. Turbervile said about
the Plot.
X. if. & I will ask him all the questions
your lordship desires I should ask him.
Mr. Foley. We desire to know what religion
he is of.
L, Staff. I desire your lordship would ask him
that question, and not the managers.
X. H. S. They will tell me their questions,
my lord, and I will ask them.
X. Staff. They ask him, my lords, and not
yoo.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Forter. A church-of England man, my
Lords.
Serj. Maynard. The popish church of Eng-
land, 1 believe.
L. Staff. Pray ray lords, lot not this be'; when
my witness says he is of the church of Eng-
land, they cry be is of the popish church of
England.
Serj. Maynard. Pray, good my lord, wt are
silent when you ask him proper questions, and
make uo remarks; we do not speak it to the
court ; we may say what we will among our-,
•elves, I hope. •
L. Staff. I may ask impertinent questions; be-
I 16&0.— Proceedings agamei ike [i486
cause I do not understand so well as these gen-
tlemen. But I pray they may not deal thus
with me.
X. JET. S. My lord, yon shall ask what ques-
tions you please.
L. Staff. Pray ask him what Mr. Turbemle
said to him about the knowledge of the Plot.
X. H. S. What did Turbervile say to yea
about his knowing of the Plot ?
Forter. About a year since, when I served
my lord Powis as butler there, he was used to
come and see me ; it was not at my lord's boose,
but he sent for me to a victualling house ■
X. H. S. That was last year ?
Forter. Yes.
X. H. S. What time of the year ?
Forter. It was about twelve months ago, I
cannot say positively the time.
X. H. o. Was it in winter or summer ?
Forter. He hath been both, I can't bo po-
sitive which ; I believe he hath been there forty
times.
X. H. S. In the year 1680 or 1679 ?
Forter. In the year 1679.
X. H. S. What did he say ?
Forter. He came there and asked me how
my lord Powis did ; and said, he was extremely
troubled that he was in that affliction, for he
did verily believe, that neither be-nor toe rest
of the lords were in the Plot ; and the wit-
nesses .that swore against him, he believed were
perjured, and could not believe any thing of it.
JL H. S. Have you any more to say ?
Forter. Yes, my lords : I told him, if there
were such a thing as a Plot, he having been be-
yond sea, must certainly know of it. He told
me, as he hoped for salvation, be knew nothing
of it, neither, directly, nor indirectly, against
the king's sacred person, nor the subversioa
of the government. And he further said. Al-
though I am a little low at present, and mj
friends will not look upon me, yet I hope God
Almighty wiU never leave me so much, at Co
let me s wear against innocent persons, and for*
swear and damn myself.
X. H. S. Where was this said to you ?
Forter. At the Ship alehouse in IincolaV
Inn-Fields one time, another time at the KingV
Head Tavern in the Strand, and another thva
at the Golden-Ball in the Strand.
X. H. S. Was any body by, besides yourself?
Forter. Not at that time; but there is a
gentleman in court, that can testify that he said
such things at other times.
X. H. S. What say you to this, Turberville ?
Mr. Tur. I say it is all false: But if your
lordships please, I will tell you what I said
once, I did conceive «ny lord Powis was the
least concerned of aoV I thought; and I hoped
it would prove so. I can take all the oaths in
the world, I said no more.
X. If. S. What else do you know?
Porter. Only such things as these be hath)
often said.
Earl of Shaftesbury. Pray, m v lords, ask him
bow came Turberviik to talk of iritai
about the Plot ?
I
w
1437] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cffutrfs IL \6$a.—F*c Popish Lard*. [USS
% • _ _
X. JET. 8. Upon what occasion came Tartar
Tille to talk of these matters ?
Porter. It was only voluntary of himself ; it
was speaking of my lord Powis, and the rest of
the Lords in the Totfer.
£. of Shaft. My lords, 1 mean of bis own
being a witness.
X. H. 8. How came Turberville to say, he
boped God Almighty would never forsake him
so far, as to let him swear against innocent per-
sons ? He was ueyer called to be a witness.
Porter. But, my lord, some of his friends did
say they were fearful of him, in regard he was
reduced to poverty; bis friends were fearful.
X. H. S. Who were fearful ?
Porter. His brother and sister, Mr. Turber-
▼iHe and his wife, *
L. H. S. Did he take notice to you that they
were afraid he would come in ?
Porter. Yes, Mr. Turberville did tell me bim?
self, that they heard he would come iu.
L. H. S. Have you said all that yon have to
•ay?
Porter. My lords, that is all I have to say.
X. H. S. Then call another, my lord.
I* Staff. Where is Mr. Yalden ? (Who stood
wp.)
X. JET. S. What is your dame ?
Witness. Yalden.
X. H. S. Your christian name?
Yalden. John.
X. H. S. What is your profession ?
Yalden. A barrister at law.
X. H. & How long have you been called to
the bar?
Yalden. I was called to the bar last Trinity-
Term was twelve months.
X. H.8. What house are you of?
Yalden. Grays-Inn.
X. H. 5. Are you a practiser ?
Yalden. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. What religion are you of?
Yalden. Of the Church of England.
X. if. S. Well, what can you say ?
Yalden. I am summoned to appear by order
sf this House $ and I desire to know of my lord
what he is pleased to examine me about.
L. Staff. What Mr. Turberville hath said in
his hearing about the Plot?
X. H. 8. What discourse hath passed be-
tween you and Turberville about the Plot ?
Yalden. My lords, in February or March
last I was walking in Grays-Inn walks with
Mr. Turberville, and Mr. Powell, and he dined
with me a day or two after ; aod there Mr.
Turberville and I were talking of the distrac-
tions of the times, how trade was rained, how
the whole kingdom was out of order; and he,
a little toucoeg at some things, cried out, ' God
4 damn me, now there is no trade good, but
* that of a discoverer ; but the devil take the
* duke of York, Monmouth, Plot, aod all, for I
4 know nothing of it/
X. H. 8. That is odd, that be should say it
was a good trade to be a discoverer, and at the
aame time say, he knew nothing of the Plot.
Yvtden. This I understood to be bis mean-
irtg; he cursed himself and them, because he
knew nothing of the Plot to discover; for he
would have got money by it, (as 1 understood)
as well as others.
Tur. My lords, Mr. Yalden -did declare yes-
terday, he was summoned in by my lord Stafford
the last night, and that he had nothing to say
but what was by hear-say.
Yalden. My lord, I do declare here what I
say is true. And yesterday Mr. Powell gave
me a caution to take heed what J did, and
swore by God, it would else be the worse for
me.
X. PL. 8. Who <Jid ?
Yalden. Mr. Powell.
L.H.S. Who is that?
Yalden. Mr. Turberville's friend. And I
said, I do not appear here as a voluutary evi-
dence, but by an order of the House of Lords.
I do not know what weight my evidence may
have; for I can say nothing but what I heard
him say, and so perhaps it will be taken but for
an hear-say.
Tur. You said you know nothing but by
hear-say.
L. H.S. Will you ask him any questions,
gentlemen?
Manag. No, my lords.
L. Staff. My lords, I si i all not trouble your,
lordships with any more witnesses as to these
points; I~have here a copy of the warrant for
the yacht to go to Dieppe : And if there be
any question' whether I did come over from
Dieppe at Christmas 167 5> if you please the
book may be searched*
L. U. 8. My lord, it is all lost, for I hear
not one word.
L. Staff. I say, my lords, if it be fit to trouble
your lordships with it, I can prove that I did
come over in the yacht from Dieppe at Christ-
mas 1675 ; here is the copy of the warrant for
it to go forme. And whether you will have it
proved that I did come over thence, I submit
to you.
jL H. S. I suppose that is fully proved^that
you did come by Dieppe.
Manag. We do not deny it.
X. H. & You do not stand upon it, senile-
men, do you ?
Manag. No, no, my lords.
X. H. S. It is admitted to you, my lord.
L. Staff. My lords, when I went from your
lordships bar last night, I had no thoughts of
examining any witnesses, bat what I had al-
ready done : But, my lords, since I was here,
there hath. something happened, about which I
desire Dr. Oates may be called again (I shall
give you my reason why I move it afterward)
upon something I heard yesternight.
X. H. Si Call Dr. Oates again. (Who ap-
peared and stood up.)
X. H. 8. My lord, What does your lordship
call him for ?
L. Staff. He did say, that be being a minister
of the Church of England, did seemingly go
over to the Church of Rome, or some snob
words; I desire he may answer that fjrst.
1499] STATE TRIALS, »2 Chablij
X. H. 8. Whet say you ? |
Qe/es. Yes, I did say I did bat seemingly go
over.
L. Staff. I desire to know, whether he was
welly a papist, or did but pretend.
Oftta, I did only pretend ; I was not really
one, I declare it.
X. H.S. What do you make of chat?
L. Staff. I desire to know how long Dr.
Oates was in Spain.
Oatet. My lords, I came into Spain in May,
and I came home again in November.
X. If. 8. That is six months.
L. Staff. He is called Dr. Oates : I beseech
your lordships to ask him, whether he were a
doctor made at the Universities here or abroad.
Oates. My Lords, if your lordships please,
any matter that is before your lordships, I will
answer to it ; but 1 hope your lordships will not
call me to account for all the actions of ray life;
whatever evidence is before your lordships 1
will justify.
X. H. S. The doctor hath never taken it
upon bis oath, that he was a doctor, and why
do you ask it r
L. Staff". He is called a doctor, and I would
know whether he did never declare upon bis
oath, that he took the degree at Salamanca ?
Oates. My Lords, I am not ashamed of any
thing I have said or done; I own what is en-
tered as my oat? before your lordships, and am
ready to answer it; but I am not bound to say
what does not at all concern this business.
L. Staff. I say, my Lords, it is entered upon
your lordships books, that he did swear at the
council, he was at Madrid with Don John of
Austria ; I would know of him whether he did
so.
Oatet. My Lords, I would have my lord to
propose the question to the Court of Peers.
X. Jf. S. Have you sworn any thing of Don
John of Austria?
Oates. My Lords, I refer myself to the Coun-
cil-book.
I* Staff. I beseech your lordships, I may
have that book.
X. If. S. I believe it is in the Narrative;
turn to the Journal, you have that mentioned
there. [To which the Clerk turned, but it
could not be found.]
X. H. 8. If you will not acknowledge it, we
must stay till the hook be brought.
Oatet. My Lords, if your lordships please, I
will repeat, as well as I can, what was said at
the council table; but* I had rather the coun-
cil book were fetched, because I atn upon my
oath : But, my Lords, 1 always thought the
council book is no record upon any man.
L. Staff. I desire it may be produced, or be
own that he said so.
X. H. 8. What you said at the council table,
you said upon your oath, and it is lawful to lay it
before you.-
Oatet. But if your lordships please, as to
what was said at the council table, if my lord
will bring any one viva voce to swear what was
said by me there, that will make something. -
3
r0C€*£*gl
[1440
X. M. 8. That may be material, as betsyi,
that your lordship should bring somebody ti
swear be said so, for the clerks may mistakt
him.
L. Staff, If your lordship please thst tat
book may be sent for, I wilt make it out.
'Sir W. Jones. It could not be read if it wot
here.
X. H\ 8. If the clerks will swear what kk
the books, it may.
Sir FT. Janes. But whether the clerks wfl
take that upon them or no, may be a q»e>
tion.
X. H. S. Go on in the mean time.
L. Staff. I cannot conclude with bin with*
out it.
X. H. S. Where is the council-book ? W
the clerks inform me it is not in their custody;
but the gentlemen of the House of Omnots
have been attended with the book, and other
papers relating to it.
L. Staff. In the mean time, ghre me lem ts
say something, though perhaps it mat be n>
thing to the purpose : Mr. Ytideo was just aov
Spin? "down, and Turbervile threatened to by
iin by the heels.
X. If. S. If he did to, it is a misoVneastf,
and be must be punished for it. Call YsJdn
and Turbervile.
X. H. 8. Mr. Turbervile, have yon dares' or
threatened Yaldeu the witness, to lay ham by
the heels?
Tur. I did not speak any such worm is
him ; Mr. Dugdale was just by me all lie
while.
X. Staff I tell you but what he ssid, std
what I can prove by witness; pray call TaV
den.
Tur. This gentleman, captain Scoutosre,
stood by me too.
X. H. 8. But I ask you upon this arisfe*
meaner, whether yon threatened Yalden to ty
him by the heels ?
Tur. My Lords, I stood by Mr. Diigdslr tfll
he was gone down;
X. H.S. How could he lay him by the bee*?
By what authority could he do it?
ibr. I did not speak such a word, npoo oj
oatb.
L. Staff Ask Yalden; I am told be did.
X H.S. I am afraid you are mmDJonsef,
my lord ; for he could not do it, it is not is ha
power.
L. Staff. He threatened he would gaol km;
but if you will not examine it, I submit tf
you.
OaHs. My Lords, Yalden, it seems, ** £
a pack of rogues, that give cvidencefer *■
king ; and here are witnesses of it. (W**
stood op.) .
X. H. 8. Yalden, were you threatened by
Turbervile? _ .
Yalden. Yes, I wffl tell you how I "J
threatened, my. lords : Mr. Turbemli MF»
me by the arm, when I had giren my evtdrscj
d, and Bd m* ***
I
and asked me if I knew him
oare.
I
^441] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. 1690.— Five Popish Lord*. [1444
X. H. 8. Do you call that threatening ?
Yalden. My Lords, I did not make this
eomplaint, nor did I desire it should be made;
but speaking this in the room, somebody carried
it to my lord.
Tur. My lords, now he hath done, let me
speak, I pray: Mr. Yalden^did say in the hear-
ing of captain Scudamore, who is here, he had
fot a great many client* here; but you, says
re, have got nothing but a pack of rogues.
Yalden. That is a mistake.
X. H. S. This is line work. But, gentlemen,
will you call captain Scudamore now, or will
jou stay till afterwards ?
Sir F. Wmnington. My Lords, .Mr. Turner-
▼ile desires it may be now, and we do also
desire it upon this occasion; Captain Scu-
damore is a man of quality, and will give
you a true account. We did not think to have
interposed in my lord Stafford's evidence ; but
he having impeached our witnesses of a misde-
meanor, we conceive it fittest to clear it at this
time.
Then Captain Scudamore was sworn.
X. H. S. Mr. Scudamore, what are you
called for? Can yon say any thing that hap-
pened between Turbervife and Yalden ?
Capt. Scudamore, The gentleman that is
here, that said he was one of Gray YInn, I do
not know his name
X. H. S. It is Yalden.
Scudamore. I beard a gentleman ask him if
he came there to get clients, and he said, I
know nothing among you but roguery.
L. Staff. Whereabouts did this gentleman
stand?
Scudamore. In the passage.
Ttir. Here are five or six more that heard
him say so.
Yalden. That which I said, was this, That
I might come hither for practice, but I did not
come hither for roguery.
X. Hf S. My lord Stafford, until such time as
the council-book comes, which may be sent
for, will your lordship proceed to something
else?
L. Wharton. My lord Steward, I humbly
conceive, that it was resolved in the Lords
House, the day before yesterday, that no book
should be sent for out of the courjt ; and it was
dbne upon the judgment of all the judges of
England.
Yalden. My Lords, they will not permit me
to go down.
X. H. S. There is a strange quarrel between
your witnesses, and an affectation of complain-
ing one of another : Let Mr. Yalden go
down.
Sir W. Jones. My Lords, I would only ac-
quaint your lordships, that the council-book,
that my lord does make mention of, was in the
bands of our clerk, we did not know of it when
it was first discoursed of; but now understanding
that here it is, we desire it may be delivered
in. to any body that hath occasion for it.
L. H. S. Hand it in. (Which was done).
VOL. VII.
X H. S. What day does your lordship speak
of?
L. Staff. The 28 ih, S9tb, or 20th of Sep-
tember.
Clerk. Then this is not the book, for this it
for January.
L. Staff. My Lords, is it your lordships plea-
sure I may have pen, ink, and paper allowed
rue?
X. H. S. Yes, yes ; give my lord pen, ink,
and paper. (Which they did;.
Then the Lord High Steward looked upon
the Council-book.
X H. S. My lord Stafford, in this council-
book, as for as we can inform ourselves by tie
table of it, there is nothing at all of it, it must
be the council- book in September.
Sir W. Jones. We have no other book but
that.
L. H. S. Why did not your lordship send
all this while to the council-table for any
thing that was material, but give the court
the trouble to be interrupted upon your en*
quiries ?
L. Staff. My Lords, you may do what you
please, I did not know any such thiug would
have needed to be urged, I have proof enough
without the hook : The use I should have made
of it, is this, I do appeal to some of your lord-
ships (you that were of the council) I do ap-
peal to which of you that were bv, whether Dr.
Oates did not say at the council-table, he had
been at Madrid, he went from Vail ad olid to
Madrid, and there did preach something at the'
Jesuits College at Madrid (what it was I cannot
tell) when Don John of Austria was by.
X. H. S. If any of my lords of the council do.
remember it, they, may testify.
X. Privy-Seal. My lords, I shall tell your
lordships as much as I remember of it : Dr.
Oates was examined about his journey into
Spain, and (amongst the rest) some question
happened to be asked, whether he had seen
Don John of Austria ; he said he had seen one
that was called so ; that he knew him not, but
he was pointed to one that they said was Don'
John of Austria: that I heard.
L. Staff. My lord, I thank you,
X. B. S. You hear what is said, Dr. Oates.
Oates. My lords, suppose I dklsay so, I think
there is no crime in it.
X H. S. It is not objected against you as a
crime, but as a mistake in your oath, there was
no such man there.
X. Privy-Seal. Afly lords, I would not be
misunderstood in the evidence I give ; I did
not say that Oates said! he knew him, but that
he knew him not, and only was told such a
man was he.
Oates, It was made apparent that I did not
know him, because I mistook bis person.
L. Staff I do stand upon it, That upon hit
oath (and I have reason to believe he said so,
because I am so informed) he said it was Don
John of Austria.
X. Privy-Scah No my lord, Dr. Oates said,
4 Z
1443] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 6S0.— Proceedings again* the [U(i
he was a tall lean man, and it seems be was a
little fat man.
L. Staff. If any man would shew him a man
to counterfeit Don John of Austria, he would
not shew liim a lean man for a fat.
Z. H. S. Go on, my lord.
L. Staff. I shall now put your lordships in
mind that he swore, but my memory is bad,
and my eyes much worse, that he saw me re-
ceive a commissino, and it seems he saw what
it was too : Now it is strange, that amongst so
many commissions that were given, none should
he extant ; I desire him to shew the commis-
sion he saw me receive.
L. H. S. Would your Lordship hare him
shew the commission which he saw you receive?
L. Staff. I do not believe be can shew my
commission ; for I am sure there was none : I
desire him to shew any one of my letters he
talks of. He says, he came over, feigning to
be a Papist, when he was not, and that they
shewed him presently all my letters ; and now
he is come to discover the Plot, I ask him, did
he keep any one of my letters ?
L. II. S. Have you any of my lord's letters
by you ?
Oates. My lords, I could not keep any let-
ters sent to the fathers ; I had a sight of them,
but noue of them to my particular use.
L. Staff. Does he know my hand ? Did he
ever seek in his life ?
Oates. Yes, I do know his hand, I believe I
have a letter of my lord's by me, but not about
me, it is of no concern ; I am sure I have one
gf my lord Arundel's.
L. Staff. But he says he hath a letter. of
mine ; let him shew one of my letters.
Oates, He writes a mixed hand, I think it is
but an indifferent one.
L. Staff. So many coram issions, and so many
letters as are spoken of, and not one to be found
or produced !
L. H. S. Can you send for the letter ?
Oates. My lords, I am not certain of that.
L. H. S. Where did you see my lord write ?
Oates. At Fenwick's, my lords, when I car*
vied the letter to the post.
L. Staff. How often hath he seen me at
Fenwick's ?
Oates. My lords, not above twice, if twice.
L. Staff. My lords, I cannot say I did not
see him there ; but I can say I don't know the
place, nor that ever I w as there.
Oates. My lords, will his lordship say I never
saw him at Dr. Perrot's ?
L. Staff] Who?
Oates. My lord Stafford.
L. Staff. Where did be live ?
Oates. In Duke-street, going into Lincoln's-
Inn-Fields : He is the arch-priest of the secu-
lars, that is, the principal of the secular clergy :
and he -hath the care of the English college tor
the sending of scholars to the college. Mr.
Fisher, my lord Stafford, and Dr. Perrot were
discoursing together about sending his son thi-
ther, and Mr. Fisher would have one sent with
him, thai was Dr. Perrot's roan.
I*. Staff I do profess before God, I was
never at Dr. Perrot's in my whole life !
L. U. S. Did not you send your toaabroad?
L. Staff. No, my lords, not I.
JL H. S. Had he a servant at Dr. Perrot's
to attend him ?
Oates. No, my lords, not that I know of, I
cannot say he had not.
L. Staff. I tell you positively, as I am a
Christian, my lords, I did not send my sod to
Lisbon, he went against jny will. I told bin I
had an aversion to it, but said, I will oot la;
my commands on you not to go ; hut he «08kt
go, I could not help it : I told him, Do jw
mean to go into the college ? He would oot id
me.
L. H. S. Pray, my lord, docs not yoor tad-
ship know Dr. Perrot ?
L. Staff. Yes, my lords, I do.
L. H. S. Were you never with bun atU
house in Duke- street ?
L. Staff. No, my lords, never in royEfc;
nor saw that Fisher he speaks* of, ever in »j
life.
Oates. My lord, it is against the rales of dot
house, that any be admitted of that boose (if
their parents be Catholics) without contest of
their parents.
L. Staff. If he be admitted there, I how it
not.
Oates. He lives there.
L. Staff. But I protest before God, my lore*
I asked him that question, Will you go to the
college ? No, says he, I will go to lie at the
bishop's house : But as for Dr. Perrot, I net*
was at his lodgings in my life, and I never knew
where he lay ; he hath been with me some-
times, but i knew not that he was a doctor.
But, my lords, I desire I may not be ran down
by these fellows, who do not speak a word true,
not one tittle. My lords, I have witnesses m
whose hou*e Fenwick lay. Call "them, and
ask them if ever they knew me tbere m tb»
Jives.
L. H. S. What kind of man was he ?
Oates. My lords, he is an ancient man, »
wears his own hair. ,
L. H. S. Is he a tall man or a low man .
Oates. A lusty man. .<
L. Staff. Truly, my lords, I nerer was it »
house since I was born. , .
Oates. My lords, 111 tell your lordship*
circumstance*; That summer Don ***^*1
de Melos, the ambassador here, was sick, •■
I think he died of the sickness, Dr. P«n» * »»
. his father confessor ; I was waiting for Dr. rer
rot some time, for be promised to taeet n»
his lodgings, and this gentleman, the prw>
at the bar, did come in there.
L. Staff. Where? # - «...
Oates. Into Dr. Perrot's legging. ^/; .
rot bad a kinsman there that wwted ?° jj^
and when my lord he came in, be wa$ '° • -,-
to speak with Dr. Perrot, and be «w*Jj
half a crown to fetch Dr., Perrot to bun, ■■
made him this reply, I'was no porter. .»
L. Staff If ever I saw thii man » »J
1145]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lards.
[1446
Sftince I was born, or heard of his name till the
not, then I will confess myself guilty of all.
Indeed, when first I heard of the Plot (they said)
there was one Mr. Gates discovered it, but I
ciid not know any such man.
. Outes. 1 went by another name, and went
in auother habit; aud my lord Stafford, though
liis memory be bad, yet it can't be so bad, but
chat he must remember something of me.
L, Staff. I don't remember you, I never saw
jrour face in my life.
L. if. S. You would have given him half a
crown to have fetched Dr. Perrot.
L. Staff. It seems then at that time, I took
liim for a poor fellow, that 1 should offer him a
shilling or two.
Gates. It is like I was, bat I refused your
half-crown, and told you I was no porter.
L. Staff. My lords, I shall give you evidence
that he was a poor fellow, since he gives me
occasion to prove it ; nay, that he was so poor,
that he was brought down to accept of 6d. I
xrill prove it by the party that gave it, now he
pats me upon it. But, my lords, this Dr. Oates
says he saw some of ray letters, I desire to
know what was in them ; did he take any notes ?
\Vhat was in them ?
X. H. S. Did you, when you .had a sight of
these letters at St. Omers, take any notes out
of them ?
Oates. What notes I did take, if I did take
any, I have not now in being ; but I do not
remember that I did take any. Besides, my
lords, we could keep no papers by us, but
what we communicated to our superiors, and
therefore it was still their care to look after
their papers themselves; and in that cir-
cumstance of time, if they had known 1 had
taken notes out of their papers, it would have
been prejudicial to me, and endangered my
life.
Ld. Staff. My Lords, I do infer this
one thing further, upon what this Dr.
Oates tells you; he did seemingly profess him-
self of the catholic religion, and I do stand upon*
jit, that hereupon he is no competent witness in
that which he offers against me : For he being
of the church of England, (for I think he pro-
fesses himself so, and wears that habit) I say,
any man let him be who he will in the world,
church of England man or other, that shall
pretend himself to be a papist, for what end
soever it may be that he so pretends, and dis-
sembles with God Almighty, which he must do
to a great height in receiving the sacra went,
which is by your lordships and the House of
Commons declared to be gross idolatry, is dot
easily to be esteemed a witness. I appeal to
your lordships, to the House of Commons, and
every body, whether such a fellow, that will
abhor his religion, let him do it for any ends in
the world, be a man to be credited; and espe-
cially engaging in such a way, to such an
height, in that which his conscience tells him
is idolatrous, is not a perjured fellow, and no
competent witness? No christian, but a devil,
and a witness for the devil. And I appeal to
the whole christian world, if a protcstaut of
the church of England should come to be a
servant to a catholic, and pretend himself a
papist,, and were not so, whether he were fit to
be countenanced : As it did once happen to
me at Brussels, before the king came in, one
that was a pro test ant came to be my footman,
and he professed himseif afterwards to be a
catholic ; and when I found he was not so,
I told. him what a villain he was, and he ought,
to be punished severely. I detest such dissem-
bling with God ; ami I think by the laws of
God and man, and the holy scriptures, such a
perjured man is no witness. I am sorry I have
troubled your lordbhips so long; but now if
you please to give me leave, my Lords, I will
give you my reasons why I called him now ;
When I did remember how he had dissembled
with God Almighty, as I said before, I did con-
sider with tnyaelf, sure this Dr. Oates must
have been, ever since he hath returned, of a very
severe, strict, and sober life; for a man that
hath so dissembled with God, ought to shew
hiinseif of an exemplary, peaceful, pious, civil
life, to testify the truth and reality of his re-
pentance. But last night when I came home,
and was sitting by the fire-side, extremely
weary, my daughter here comes in, and asks
me if I had heard what had passed between
Dr. Oates and the lieutenant ; how he called
the lieutenant rascal and gaoler: .Sure then,
said I to myself, this is not the quiet, civil, so-
ber man, that such-a-one that bath lived as he
hath done, ought to be. Aud this is the reason
I spenk of it, that he should call him vile
names, gaoler and rascal;' it did not become a
man of his coat to do it : whether it was so or
no, I do not know; but Mr. Lieutenant, I
suppose, «» ill satisfy your lordship.
L. H.S. What did Oates say to you, Mr.
Lieutenant.
Lieutenant. My Lords, I was desiring Mr.
Oates, that he would keep the people down,
because there was a great crowd ; and seeing a
great many people come in, he told me they
were witnesses that were to come in : Said I, I
believe half of these are not witnesses; and the
door opening so often, I could keep this place
in no order; so I desired they would stand
away that were not witnesses ; Why, says he,
you are but a gaoler. Then I told him, if it
were not far his coat, and I were out of this
place, I would break his head. Then he call-
ed me rascal.
L. Staff. My Lord Steward, I desire to know
whether this be a witness fit to be believed
against any man.
X. H. S. Mr. Oates, this' does not become
you ; ii is very ill manners in you.
Oates. My Lords, the lieutenant of the
Tower hath the law; and I refer myself to the
law, if I have done him any wrong.
Serj. Maynard. It did not become Mr.
Lieutenant of the Tower to tell him he would
break his head.
Lieutenant. Why ? If a man oat of the court,
or ia any other habit* should tell me I was a
1447] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles I
gaoler, I think I « should not deserve to be the
king's lieutenant, if [ did not break his head.
Serj. Maynard. Pray tell the court so. fiat
yet, under favour, you ought not to threaten
him for a word to break his head.
Ld. Staff. My Lords, I do say this to your
lordships, a man that hath dissembled with
God Almighty in so high a nature, as be ac-
knowledges himself to have done, ought to be
a man of a very severe life afterwards, and not
vSo passionate and choleric, as it seems this
fellow is.
L. H. S. Will your lordship proceed?
Ld. Staff. For this man truly 1 shall say no
more; I think I have said enough to make
him appear a person not fit to be believed. I
would only asK Stephen Dugdale a question, if
you please, it is hut a little, I will not hold you
long. I only ask, and if he deny it I will prove
it, whether be was not a prisoner at Stafford
for debt, when he made the first affidavit?
X. H. S. Were you a prisoner for debt at
Stafford, when you made your first affidavit?
Dugd. In the Serjeant's hands I was, my
Lords.
Ld. Staff, For a very great debt, my Lords,
some hundreds of pounds, and he was a fellow
not worth a groat. And, my Lords, Dr. Oates
, Says I offered him half- a- crown, and he refused
it: I call Ellen Rigby to prove he was so poor
he begged for six- pence.
Oates. I will save my lord the trouble of
F roving any such thine. My lord Stafford says
was a poor man, and had not six-pence in my
pocket: I can make it appear to the House of
Lords, that some time since I came in upon
this discovery, I have not bad two-pence in my
pocket, and sometimes I hare not had 6 pence ;.
but a man's poverty is no objection against his
honesty.
Ld. Staff Where is Ellen Rigby, to prove
whether she did not give him six- pence? But
then, my Lords, pray ask him) whether he did
not swear at a former trial, he had spent 6 or
700/. more than he got ?
L. H. S. Did you say at a former trial, you
were 5 or 600/. out of purse ?
Oates. My Lords, I will satisfy this house
what I said : What folks write after me, I am
not to justify. But, my Lords, I had a friend
of mine presented me with 100/. I name not
his name, but if that be questioned, he is a
Peer of this Hoasc, and will justify it : I had
100/. for my Narrative ; I had 100/. for raking
some Jesuits, which is 300/. I had for some
other copies that £ printed, a matter of 50 or
60/. And now I can make it appear, that as to
those sums which I received in gross, I have
spent them all, and more, in this service : for 1
have none of the money now by me.
L. Staff. He makes out but 350/. and he
swore he was oot 700/. but he does not swear
one true tittle, nor is any whit to be heliered.
Oates. If you expect I should prove it, I can
prove it now.
Managers. Be quiet, Dr. Oates> we will do
you right anon.
*Prooe*dingi
[Uft
L. Staff My lords, I do not kaow for the
present that I have any thing else to trsohle
your lordships with. I remember these ges>
tleraen, when I asked them if they had any sure
evidence to give in, said, no, unlets I tbotM
give them some occasion: and now I dews
your lordships, if they bring any new evidence,
that I may have time to answer to it
L. H. S. God forbid but you should tat
liberty to answer any objection.
Sir' IT. Jones. My lords, before we gsttatf
to sum up our evidence, we shall have occasm
to call some witnesses, and that will be to far*
tify what our witnesses have said, to discover
what kind of witnesses have been made use of
against them, and to falsify what my lord's wit-
nesses have said in some particulars. Usae
will be the three heads for which we desire te
call witnesses. And because, my lords, we will
not trouble you with making one entire Nar-
ration of what they can say, or to what purpose
we call them before they come, desire the fa-
vour that we may acquaint your lordships with
it, still as we call them ; for that we think wi
be the way more clearly to be understood. My
lords, we shall begin to make good bv otser
witnesses, some things said by Mr. Dugdtk
(for he was our first witness, and therefore in
order of time we will begin with bim.) Mr
lords, the prisoner at the bar was pleased te
object—
L. Staff. My lords, I would not Hrtempt
him ; but I would ask whether they are ewe
than two beads that he proceeds upon to
fortify their own evidence, and to falsify anse.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, I think we may cm-
f>rehend all under those two beads. Bar, art
ords, you observe, one great matter my lard
did insist upon yesterday, was this, (bat be, it
is true, bath seen Mr. Dugdale at my brd
Aston's; (though by the way I must stytsw,
my lord at the first did not seem to kaow
him) —
L. Stdf : I did not'know him m his perriwfc
L. fiTS. Do not interrupt them, my Mr
for they must have the same liberty that job
had, to go on without interruption.
Sir W. Jones. We must have the n*
freedom my lord had. I will do his lordwP
that right, he did afterwards recollect hinsw
and say, his perriwig had made that alterttwfl
in him, that he did^ not know him. Bat tsy
lord was also pleased to say yc**^^!'j2
though he did not know him, yet be hoW
upon him as so mean and iiiconwdersUe •
fellow, that he did purposely avoid all diieotr*
with him ; and thatsometimes when h***1,
dry at my lord Aston's, he would not ip**10
him to help him, nor to call one to bdpaioit0
drink. My lord was pleased yesterday shett
dmy that ever he had any con*erse was **h
but only that one time, when indeed "rjP?
dale did desire to make use of my lord, tsstty
his interposition be might have leave to l» *
the foot-race. My lords, your loidsWpJ w*y
•well perceive we are now going abort****
a matter mostly arising within to/tori h***
1449]
STA1K TRIALS, S^Ooaruss fi. 16*0.— *a* 4tytM LoraV
family ; and what witnesses we shnll have from
thence, your lordships may easily imagine wiM
not be very favourable to us : And if we have
not tnaay to this point, your lordships will take
inea consideration, that those who can give
the fullest proof here, must be those of the fa-
mily, and the religion of the family. But, my
lords, we will call one or two that 1 believe will
give yon satisfaction that my lord, the prisoner,
waa no such stranger to Mr. Dugdale ; that
they have been seen together, and almie toge-
ther : and that is the first thing we desire to call
witnesses to. Call Mr. Ansell and William
Hanson.
Mr. Hanson was sworn.
X. H. 8. Where do you live? whose servant
ewe you ?
'Hanson. At Wilnal in Staffordshire.
I*. H. S. What do you ask htm ?
Sir W. Jones. \ desire, if yon be satisfied
where he lives, that he wiU tell you, whether he
hath been at my lord Aston's, and seen my
lord Stafford there?
X. M. tS. Have yon seen my lord Stafford at
my lord Aston's ?
Hanson. 'Yrs,«my lords.
X. if. S. When ?
Hanson. A little above two years ago.
L. Staff. Be pleased he may name the time
positively.
Sir W. Jones. My lord Stafford is not so well
versed in prosecutions of this nature, as to know
that lie is not to interrupt us while we are ex-
amining our witnesses.
X. H. S. My lord, your lordship received no
interruption, nor must give none.
Sir If. Jones. My lords, we desire this wit-
ness maybe asked, whether or no he hath seen
Mr. Dugdale and my lord Stafford at any time
together?
JL H. 5. -What say you ?
Hanson. Yes, my lords.
X. H. 8. When, and where ?
Hanson. I cannot justly tell the time.
X. If. $. Can you tell the plaee?
Hanson. Yes, at my lord Aston's.
X. H. 8. Whereabout* ?
Hamon. In my lord Aston's parlour.
X H. 8. And were they alone ?
Hanson. Mr. Dugdale fetched me to my
lord Stafford.
JL H. 8. And was nobody in the -parlour
-when Dugdale fetched you to my lord ?
Hanson, No, my lords, I think there wee
not. _
&. Simf. He thinks there was not.
Hanson. There was not to my best remem-
<braece.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, will you 'be pleased
to ask him the occasion why Dugdale 'fetched
-him to him?
Hanson. My lord had a mind to have a boy.
X. !H. 8. What was the occasion that Dug-
dale did eonte to fetch you to my lord Stafford
so fhe 'parlour r
"" a. To bring fhe 'boy, my lords, young
[UftO
Mr. Degsfete fetched one «nd the
hoy to him ; it was a hoy that my ierd would
have to live with him. •
Sir W. Jones. Gen you tell what time of the
year it wse * whether winter or summer, ae
near as you can ?
X. M. S. Ay, <what •time of the year waa M
(Hanson. Indeed, my lords, I cannot tell.
Sir W. Jones. I desire to ask him, whether
when be went awa> be left them together?
X. If. 8. Did yon leave <them together?
Hans. To my best remembrance, my lords, I
did. The boy and (I went away together, and
We left them at my lord Aston's 'parlour door.
Sir W. Jones. -Call James AuselL.
X H. S. Nay, if 70a nave done with him,
my lord Stafford may ask him any question.
L. Staff. My lords, I shall tell you how this
thing is : There was a report that this Hawkins
was a very good runnngffootboy : and this was
spoken of at my lord Aston's at dinner or sup-
per, I don't know which, nay severaitimes about
that time ; It was when my lord of Danny was
treasurer, and his son, my lord Dunblam, waa
much for foot matches, and I nada mindrto have a
foolboyto make a match with him ; and I believe
Dugdale at dinner or supper did say that he was
a good running 'lad, and I wight desire to see
him, and Dugdale did bring him to me I believe
into my lord Aston's parlour ; but there waa
at least six or seven in the room besides.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, was this at that
time when your lordship was at Tnall the 13th
of September?
L. Slqff. Pray, my lords, I desire to ask htm
that question ; 1 would know what year it was.
X. H. S. He says it was above two years ago.
X Si off. I profess I believe it was one or
two years before I was taxed with this Plot. I
did never think I should be questioned about
this, or I could easily have brought witnesses,
that were by at that time. It is true, he did
come to me; but pray what time of day
was it?
Hans. In the morning, I think it was.
X Staff. I profess to God, it was alter top-
per ; as I hope to be saved, it was as we were
going to bed, to the best of my remembrance.
Sir W. Jones. Did you come into the par-
lour after supper?
Horn. I am not sure what time it was.
Sir W. Jones. If his lordship please to ask
him any more questions ^ if not, we will call
another. James Ansell. (Who was sworn.)
L.H.S. What is yoar name?
Witness. James Ansell.
X. H. 8. Where do you live ?
Ansell. At Hey wood in Staffordshire.
X. H. 8. Did you live with my lord Aston f
Ansell. I have been at my lord's house at
Tixall.
X H. S. But you are not of the family ?
Ansell. No.
X. H. 8. How far is Hey wood from Tixall I
Ansell. A mile.
X. H. 8. Have you seen my lord Staffotd at
ffceji?
1151 ] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \ 6*0.— Proceedings against tfie [1 152
Anseil. I have seen a man they called my
lord Stafford. 1 did not know him, but as they
told me.
'L. H. S. Did you ever see Dugdale in the
company of a man they called my lord Stafford?
Anseil. Two years ago I was at Tixall, and
there I saw one, that they said was my lord
Stafford, walking with Mr. Dugdale, whom I
did know.
X. JET. S. Where was it ?
Anseil. In the court at Tixall, walking toge-
ther.
L. H. S. Were they alone ? Was there no
body else in company ?
Anseil. None that I saw ; there might be
more in company, but I saw no more.
Sir W. Jones. Pray my lords, ask how long
ago this was. •
Antell. About a summer was two years.
Sir W. Jones. If his lordship' will ask him
any questions now we have done, he may ;
Otherwise we will call another.
JL. Staff'. My lords, I have recollected my-
self as well as I can in so short a time, and all
I can say, is, some of ray servants were by, I
suppose ; and I do assure your lordships, the
other business was above three years ugo : so
the fellow does not know what he does say.
L. H. S. Will you ask him any questions?
L. Staff. Pray ask him how long he saw me
in the court with Dugdale.
' L. H. S. How long was it ?
, Anseil. I cannot tell ; I did but walk through
the court. I came to speak with Mr. Dug-
dale, and he was with my lord.
L. Staff. Did he hear us discourse, any word
we said ?
Anseil. No, I did not.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, if you please, before
Anseil go away, we would ask him a question
to another point ; and that is, for what reason
Dugdale was secured, whether he went away
for debt or no.
L. H. S. Do you know wherefore Dugdale
was secured, or why he went from my lord
Aston's ?
Antell. I can't tell why he went away ; whe-
ther for fear of the Plot, or no I can't tell.
Sir W. Jones. What discourse was between
you and Dugdale about it ?
Anseil. Where? There was a discourse at
Stafford when he was there.
Sir W Jones. But before he weut away ?
Anseil, I came to my lord Alton's one day, and
told Mr. Dugdale I heard say he was concern-
ed in the Plot ; for I told him I was amongst
some people, and they say you are concerned
in the Plot. And this was about a fortnight
-after the news was hot in our country.
L.H.S. What said he?
Anseil. He laughed at it, and said, God blast
him if he knew any thing of it.
L. Staff. So he denied it then ?
Sir W. Jones. Pray, sir, at that time did he
say he knew any thing about my lord Aston,
a;d why my lord Aston did use him ill.
[Then my lord Stafford objected Mr. Dug-
dale was too near the witness, and desired be
might go down : and it -was ordered accord-
ingly.]
Sir F, Win. My lords, we would ask this
man what he does know of Dugdale conceal-
ing himself after he bad beard of the discourse
about the Plot.
Anseil. I know not that, my lords ; be was
fearful of coming iu company ; what bis dis-
course was, I do not know.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, now, if it please yoar
lordships, we will go to another particular.
Your lordships will please to remember, that
yesterday there were two witnesses called by
my lord Stafford, that is, Sambidge aud Philips.
Sam bid ge was the old gentleman that was deaf,
and a little passionate too, because he was once
summoned to Litch field court ; Mr. Philips was
the minister of Tixall : And both these did
testify, That whereas Mr. Dugdale had swora
as a former trial, that he did give notice be-
fore them of the death of Sir Edmuiidbury
Godfrey upon Monday, which, as I take it, was
the 11th of October, there was no such notice
given in their presence. Mr. Dugdale Si
affirm they were by, and that he gave notice be-
fore them and others. This was made use of
hy my lord to invalidate the testimony of Mr.
Dugdale, that he should go and affirm at a
former trial, that be did give notice of the
death of sir Edmund bury Godfrey within tw«
days after be was killed, before any one knew
of it ; and Dugdale must needs know it from
the Jesuits; and both of these gentlemen
being now in court, do deny that ibey heard of
it at that time. My lords, we shall prove to
you here, that he did give notice of it at that
time, and that they were both present: For
Mr. Sambidge, it is not so strange he should not
observe it ; he was very deaf, and he could
hardly hear yesterday ; aud as he was deaf, so
he was very passionate. As for Mr. Philips, I
cannot say that as to him, but perhaps he can-
not at that distance of time remember ; bat
we will prove by undeniable witoesses, the no-
tice was given that Monday, and that tfaest
persons were by when it was given.
Sir F. Win. This witness we use to another
purpose besides this ; but we will ask him only
to this now.
L. Staff. I desire the witnesses, may stand by
themselves.
L. H. & Let them take care that there be
but one witness at a time, and that nobody ap-
proach them while they are giving their testi-
mony.
Sir W. Jones. We did not make the like de-
> sire as to my lord's witnesses.
L. Staff In troth, you might with all my heart,
jf you would.
Sir W. Jones. It may be so ; but we did not
fear them so much. Swear William Goldsmith.
(Which was done)
Sir IF. Jones. I would begin with James An-
seil. Who appeared, and stood op again.)
Sir F.Win, lfyour lordships please, we wouM
ask him whatbeknowsof a discourse about the
1453] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I6s<).— Five Popish Lords.
[1151
justice of peace's death ; to tell the time, and
vt hat it was that was said ? We only ask ge-
neral questions.
X. II. S. What discourse did you hear of the
murder of a justice of peace, and when ?
Ansell. My lords, I heard it at Tixall.
X. H. S. When didypu bear it first?
Ansell. The 14th of October.
X. II. S. Who did you hear it from ?
Ansell. From Mr. Dugdale.
X. H. S. The letter was dated the 13th.
"Where did you hear of it ?
Ansell. It was at ode Eld's house, an ale-
house in Tixall.
X. H. S. Where?
Ansell. At an ale-house hard by my lord's.
X. H. S. Who was by ?
Ansell. When that was spoken, there was I,
and William Hanson, and Mr. Sam bid ge, and
Mr. Philips.
X. H. S. Did Dugdale speak with them at
that time ?
Ansell, Yes, he was with them at that time,
lint he spoke with me "at the parlour ; furta
•ent for joe into the parlour.
X. H. S. Then at the same dine he spake it
to you, and they were in the house ?
Ansell. Yes, he came from them to me into
the parlour, and went to them again.
Sir W Jones. My lords, I hear him speak to
the day of the month ; if you please to ask
liitn if Ire can tell what day of the week it was ?
'Ansell. It was on a Monday.
X. H. S. That is right, the letter was dated
on Saturday the 12th of October.
Sir F. Win. I would ask him, whether af-
terwards he came into the room where Mr.
Philips, the parson was?
Ansell. Yes.
Sir F.Win. Was there any discourse, after you
came in, about the death of a justice of peace ?
Ansell. I cannot tell that.
X. If. S. Will jou please to ask„ him any
thing, my lord ?
L. Staff". Indeed, my lords, he says nothing
concerning me ; therefore I say only this, I
desire to know, if he can tell, what time of the
day it was ?
Ansell. It was the forenoon.
Sir W. Jones. Then call William Hanson
again. (Who appeared.)
Sir F. Win. We call him to the same ques-
tion. Do you declare to my lords what you
know of Mr. Dugdale's acquainting you with
the death of a justice of peace, and when
it was.
Hanson. I heard Mr. Dugdale say at old
Eld's house at Tixall, There was a justice of
peace murdered that lived at Westminster.
X. H. S. When did he tell you so ?
Sanson. The day that I went to run the
(ace, the 13th of October.
Sir F. Win. Can you remember what day of
tjbe week it was ?
Hanson. It was on Monday.
. X. H. S. Was it the forenooo or afternoon ?
Hanson. The forenoon.
X. H. S. What company was in the house
when he told you- of it?
Hans. Old Mr. Sambidge, and Mr. Philips
the parson of Tixall.
X. H. S. Were they in the bouse at that
time ?
Hans. Yes.
X. H. S. Were they by when the discourse
was?
Hans. Mr. Sambidge was going to drink a
bottle of ale, as he said, at my lord's Bowling-
Green ; and fur a while he sits down, and pre-
* sently Mr. Philips comes in and sits down, and
Mr. Dugdale came out of the parlour into the
room where we were come : said I, What news ?
Said he, they say there is a Justice of Peace
murdered at Westminster.
Sir F. Win. Was Philips in the room ?
Hans. Yes, he hath forgot it, but he was
there.
L.H.S. Did Philips hear it?
Hans. He might have heard it if he would.
X. H. S. Had you any discourse with Philips
about this since ?
Hans. No, my lords.
Sir F. Win. He is positive both as to the
day of the month, and as to the week, and that
both of them were present.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we shall prove to
you now, that the post which comes out of Lon-
don on Saturday, comes to this place on Monday
morning; and those which come out of Tuesday
come there on Thursday morning; and the
post which goes out of London on Thursday,
comes to this place on Saturday morning.
L. Staff. He says the post comes such and
such days, I own it, and in the morning too.
Sir W. Jones. Then I go on, my Lords, to
another point, which will be a farther confir-
mation of the matter. For, my lords, we will
prove to you, and that by men of quality, that
the noise of the murder was in that country, the
Wednesday and Thursday following the murder.
Yourlordships please to observe, sirE. Godfrey
was killed the 12th of October; lie was found
the Thursday following, which was fas I take it)
the 16th or 17 th of October. We will prove now,
that the noise and knowledge of the murder was
in the country about Tixall, before he was found
here near London. Now we only bring this as a
confirmation of this matter, that it was revealed
at the ale-house, and so it went about the coun-
try. And for this we call Edward Birch, esq.
and John Turton, esq.
Sir F. Win. Before we examine them, I would
state the time. Sir E. Godfrey was missing
on Saturday, which was the l?th of October ;
his murder was not discovered till Thursday..
We call these persons to a double purpose ;
the one to fortify what our witnesses have said ;
and the other to shew, that this man was dis-
patched by these men's confederates, because
they knew it so soon ; which could not have,
been, but that they were in the conspiracy
themselves.
L. Staff. I desire only that he may say whe-
ther he means me among the rest ?
1455] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. I Q$<K— Proceedings again* ike [Uifl
Sir F. Win. My lord, I will do you no wrong,
I speak of those at Tixall.
(Then Mr. Birch was sworn.)
L. M. S. When did1 you hear of- the death of
'sir E. Godfrey, Mr. Birch ?
Birch. My lords, I did not bear any thing
of the death of sir E. Godfrey, till the Saturday
post ; but, I presume, that which these gentle-
men call me for, is this : I did bear before
Thursday, I think Tuesday was the first day,
that there was a Justice of Peace of Middlesex
killed, and it was thought the papists murdered
him ; and this on Tuesday and Wednesday was
all over the country, that is, Tuesday after his
death. For I will tell yoor lordships how I
came to take notice of Jt ; for hearing such
a report in the country, I did not so much as
take notice of it; but beingat the King's- bench
bar, at the Trial of Green jBerry, and Hill, for
the murder of sir E. Godfrey, I found upon the
evidence, that the body was not found till the
Thursday after be was killed ; that made me
recollect myself as to what I had heard in the
-country : and as I stood at the bar, I told se-
veral gentlemen that I did perfectly remember
before Thursday it was discoursed of in the
country by several gentlemen where 1 lived.
Sir W. Jones. Call John Turton, esq.
Sir F.Win. Some of my lords here I perceive
desire he should be miked a more particular
question.
£. If. S. I desire to ask him this: yon heard
of it, you say, on Tuesday, that a Justice of
Peace of Middlesex was killed ; I desire to
fenow who you heard it from ?
Birch. Truly, my lords, I cannot tell : for
I will tell your lordships, I have some certain
. days that I constantly appoint to be at home
in, when people come about business to me.
Among these people, several came that asked
me what news I had from London. I told
them, I had received a letter or two by the
post, and I shewed them those letters, there was
little or nothing in them. Thereupon they
asked me, if I did not hear of a Justice of Mid-
dlesex that was killed i No, said I : how come
you to bear it ? Says one, I come through Cank,
(which is within half a mile of mine own bouse,)
and as I came through, there came a person
from Heywood, that said, it is all the news
about Tixall and Heywood, and that Dart of
the country. And this was said to me in my
i own house.
ir F. Win. How far is Heywood from TixaH >
Birch, About a mile.
Sir F. Win. Now, my lords, I woald ask Mr*
Turton to the same business.
(Mr. Turton was sworn.)
Ii. H. S. Mr. Turton, pray hear : When did
Jen first hear in Staffordshire of the death of a
nstice of Peace of Middlesex ?
Turton: My lords, there are two races in
that country, at a place near Lichfield, and
they are about the middle of October ; the one
that year was die }5th. the other the 18th.
4
The one the Tuesday, and the other the Friday.
» I was at both of them : and one of Use dayi,
' which I cannot be positive in, there was one
Mr. Whitehall, a Justice of Peace inStafind-
shire, called me from the company, and de-
sired me to speak with me by myself. Said be,
do yoa hear any news? No, said I. Do yoa
hear nothing, said be, of a Justice of Peace
that is murdered ? (I then 'had not heard of
sir E. Godfrey's being missing) No. Says he,
don't you bear he is murdered r Do yoa know
him? Yes, said I: how do yoa hear it? Styi
he, it is a report about us. But I did not dxo
believe it : but the next post-day, which wai
Monday, I did hear it. It was either Tuesday
or Friday, one of those days.
Sir W. Jones. If it were either one or da
other, it is as strange, and the evidence ai
strong ; for bis body was not found till Than>
day.
Sir F. Win. And will your lordships please
to observe, that by that time the report bad
got the name of Godfrey too, when at the sane
time we in Loudon did not knew what was be*
come of him. ™
Turton. He asked me if I knew sir £. God-
frey : said he, I hear h& was an acu e Justice
of the Peace against the papists ; and be made
this inference, we had need have a care what
we do, for we shall be all sacrificed
Sir W. Jones. My lords, will your lordships
be pleased to observe, that y estt rday there were
some witnesses called to disparage Mr. Dag-
dale; and the first man, as I can remember,
was a very substantial gentleman, called Mr.
Robinson : I think he was not able to gire an
account ef his employment, bat he was a gen-
tleman, that lived upon his money ; I remem-
ber those were his words. My lords, ee shaH
call (without telling you what they will sat)
some witnesses to prove the condition of this
gentleman, what reputation he is of, and****
is his conversation. And we first call ary mdy
Gerard.
L. Staff. My lords, pray give me leave lossy
one word "Bet it is no great matter, it a
not worth the speaking.
L. H. S. What can yoa say, my laid?
L. Staff. It was only a tbongbt of my **%
not worth tronbHng your lordships '"'
(Then die Lady Gererd appeared, and ami
sworn.)
L. H. S. Does year ladyship know oat W»V
liam Robinson ?
Lady Gerard, No, my lords.
Sir W. Jones. He hath several names, we
desire be may be called.
L. H. S. Catf Robinson the upholsterer.
(He was called, bat appeared not.)
Sir W. Jones, I perceive we mistake o*e
lady for another. We desire Mr. Booth, »
member of the House of Commons, may be
sworn. (Which was done in his place.)
L. H. 8. My lord Stafford, send for He*
binson your witness.
1457] STATE TRIAtS, 32 Charles
L. Staff. I believe lie is here; but if ho be
not, one that belongs to me I have sent to tee
for him : whether he be a good or bad witness,
I do not know personally.
Sir IP. Jones. Mr. Booth knows him very
well, he saw him yesterday, and so we may
venture to ask him the question.
X. H. S. Did you see Robinson the witness
yesterday ?
Mr. Booth. Yes, my lords, I did.
L. H. S. Do you know him ?
Mr. Booth. My lords, I do know him very
well, though I have not seen him often : for
indeed, my lords, he behaved himself so
the first time that I saw him, that I believe
I shall never forget him. My lords, I am
better acquainted with his character than his
person, though I know the man very well ; and
truly the first time that dter I was in his com-
pany, he gave me no encouragement ever to
desire it again ; for, if you please, I will tell
you ho w I came to know him. He told your
lordships that he came into Cheshire at a
cocking ; it was at that time that I saw him :
for upon the Sunday after the cocking, I was
invited to a neighbour's, about two miles from
home. We were set down to dinner, and we
had riot sat long, but this man comes into the
room where we were ; there was an empty
place at the lower end of the table, and he
sits him down, and began a discourse to ridi-
cule the Lord's day, in such a manner as I
never heard the like. And the rest of his
discourse was full of a great deal of contempt
of God Almighty, and aH that was sacred. All
his discourse at dinner was very profane. It
vras not in mine own blouse ; and because it
was not taken notice of by the master of the
house, and he coming under the protection of
a young gentleman, I did not what else I
should ; for I should have made him hold his
tongue, or have used it to better purpose : the
whole of his discourse was so atheistical and
profane, that I never beard the like in my, life.
"When dinner was done, he used a great many
enticements to draw the company into play, by
asking what would they say, if they should see
such and such things to be done ? And at length
he pulls out a great many dice out of his pockerj
and behaves himself in that manner, as people
do that would draw in others to play ; and
they that had better skill in it than I, said that
they were all false. Wben I saw this, I de-
sired htm to leave our room, or to forbear ; for,
said I, if this be the entertainment of the day,
I must leave the company ; then they com-
manded him to desist. This is all that I do
know of my own knowledge : but I shall ac-
quaint you what I believe ; for I have heard
it from very considerable persons, whom I dare
credit : for the man run much in my mind,
because I never saw so ill a man in my life.
Coming home, I was speaking to some of my
family ; says I, Yonder I met with the strang-
est fellow that I ever saw in my days, he is
fitter to be hanged than any thing else. Oh,
Sir, said they, there is such a fellow hath
VOL. VII*
II 1680.— Five Popish Lords. [14*8
cheated I know not how many at the town
where the cocking was. The next day, I think
it was, or shortly after, I had occasion to go to
that town ; and many people* came and com-
plained to me of his cheats, to a very great de- .
gree. They asked me, what they should do ?
Said I, You have nothing to do but indict him
for a cheat. Why, said they, will you take no
course with him ? Said I, What course can* I
take? I am turned out of the commission
of the peace, else I know enough to bind him
to bis good behaviour. After this, I had occa-
sion to go into Lancashire, and there I found he
was better known than trusted. There were ^
very loud complaints against him, and some* .
would have given 20/. to meet with him. I .
heard afterwards he went into Staffordshire,
and he changed his name wherever he went;
but he soon discovered himself, and all there-
abouts he goes for a notorious cheat. This is' *
all I can say of him.
L. Staff. My lords, Be pleased to give me-
leave to say one wc^rd. I assure you, if I had
thought this man had been such a fellow as now
he proves, I would not have brought him
before you. I never knew what he was in -my
l^e, nor heard of his name till Saturday last.
L. H. S. It may be so, my lord : but your
lordship must take notice, this is the man that
gave the most important ^evidence, that Dug-
dale should cofrupt him to swear against you
for money.
L. Staff'. Give me leave to observe upon that,
my lords, That if Dugdale knew him to be a
cheating fellow, he might think him the liker to
take money to forsweur himself.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, We shall not reply
now, but observe anon, how this cheating
fellow comes to swear for my lord at this time.
But we desire an honourable peer of this House
may give some account of him, and that is the
noble lord the earl of Macclesfield ; 1 think be
may be known to your lordships.
(Then the Earl of Macclesfield stood up.)
L. if. S. Pardon me, my good lord, my
lord must be sworn.*
Earl of Mace. Before I am sworn* I would
know of your lordships, whether I &hould be
sworn or no ? for your lordship shall not make
me be sworn, unless my lords say I should.
L. TJ. S. I should not offer it, if there were
any colour of doubt in it.
(Then my Lord was sworn.) V
E. of Mace. My lords, I have nothing to
Say against this man, but what he said to me,
and before a justice of peace too ; fur I did
'-«"■■ - ■ ■ - . ... i. ,.,...■ n .
* See the Note to vol. 2, p. 772. The Coun-
tess of Shrewsbury's Case. So in Lord Mac-
clesfield's Case, a. D. 1725, post, the Bishop of
Oxford gave his testimony upon oath, as did
Lord Stonnont in the Case of Mr. Hastings,
a.d. 1789, post. See a'so Blacks. Comin. B. 1.
Ch. 12. (vol. 1, p. 402, 15th ed.) and Mr.
Christian's Note on the passage.
■&
1459] STATE TRIALS, 52 Cham.es II. 1680.— Proceedings against tke [Iflft
take this nan when be bad run away from my
lord Gerard. He bad cheated many of his
servants. I catched him on the way running
to play his tricks' somewhere else, and I inter-
cepted him ; but though I was a justice of
peace there, yet because it was in a manner
my own case, I would not commit him, till I
had carried him before another justice of peace.
So the man comes up to me ; says be, my
lord, have you a mind to have your son-in-law
bubbled ? I have been only teaching him bow
to avoid being cheated ; I acknowledge myself
to be a cheat, and I would teach him to
avoid them. I am going now into Stafford-
shire, and that was all I intended to his lord-
ship : I am a rogue I confess. And upon this
a justice of peace comes in, and while they
were examining of him, we bid some that were
by to search him, and they found in his pocket
false dice ; and truly the justice nor I did not
know whether they were true or false. Says
he, You do not know what to do with these,
but I do. This is all I can say ; but in all the
three counties of Staffordshire, Cheshire, and
Lancashire, there are several men that I see
here, (hat know his life better than I do ; for
it is his common practice. And I believe, my
lords, the judges must know him ; for it was
his common practice at all assizes and great
meetings to play these pranks.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we will not trouble
your lordships any further as to Robinson ; if
he were here, perhaps my lady would know
him ; but having two such witnesses, I think
we need not trouble ourselves nor you any
more about him.
X. H. S. Have you done with my -lady
Gerard ?
Sir TV Jones. Yes, and we beg her pardon
for this trouble. My lords, your lordships will
he pleased to remember, there was one Holt
was produced as a witness by my lord Stafford ;
and your lordship, when you look on your
notes, will remember he testified to this pur-
pose : that Dugdale sent an horse for him to
Stafford town; which horse brought him to
the Star Inn, and there Dugdale did offer him
40/. to swear, That one Mr. Moor carried away
Eves the Jesuit. My lord, we will call some
witnesses to this Mr. Holt ; you will find him
to be something n-kin to Mr. Robinson, and,
as we suppose, of nothing a better reputation
than he. The witnesses will give you an ac-
count of his pranks. Call Sampson Rawlins,
and Lander. (Rawlins stood up, and was
sworn.)
X- H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. Sampson Rawlins.
X. H. S. What you ask him ?
Sir W. Jones. We desire to a6k him if he
knows Samuel Holt the black-smith ?
X. H. S. Do you know Holt ?
Rawlins. Yes.
Sir F. Win. Acquaint my lords what repu-
tation he is of, where he lives, and what he is.
Rami. IJe is counted to be a very lewd, loose
fellow.
X. H.S. Why to?
Sir W.Jones. What hath he done?
Rami. He is counted a drunken, lewd fellow.
Sir W. Jones. Is he of an ill repuUooa is
the country where he lit es ?
Rawl. Yes, he is so.
X. H. S. For what t
Rawl. It is said in the town he keeps Mo-
ther man's wife.
Sir W. Jones. Is there any other fault he bath?
Rawt. He said there were none but regis
would take Mr. Dugdale's part ; whereas I
never knew any harm by Mr. Dugdale, tadl
have known him this 14 or 15 years: I dealt
with him, I was a taylor to the family, and at
ever paid me very honestly and well.
Sir W. Jones. Have you heard of Mr. Hok
any other ill thing besides what you speak of?
Rami, He broke open my lord Aston'i wne»
cellar, and stole several bottles of wine; where-
fore my lord Aston bid Mr. Dugdale send tin
to the gaol : but he curried favour with Mr.
Dugdale, and so kept in with him, that ha
afterwards begged for him of my lord to forgive
him ; and now he comes to evidence again*
Mr. Dugdale, that was his sure stedfast friend,
and saved him from the gaol.
L. Staff. I would ask this witness a ques-
tion *
Rawl. And because I took Mr. Doedale'e
part, saying, he was an honest man (and lie
was so to me, and all others, as far as ever I
heard) he met me, and would have murdered ne.
X. H. 8. When was this ?
Rawl. Since last term, when I was op here,
and likewise Sawyer took a pot, and would
have donged my brains out.
Sir F. Win. My lords, I think this win we
summoned as a witness, to attend at my *wd
Aston's trial. What occasion brought yen »
London at that time ?
Rawl. I was subpoenaed op. And when I
came home to my wife and children, they
grossly abused me, and said I was a rogue, be*
cause I came up upon his majesty's service
L. Staff. Pray, my lords, ask bim whether
Holt was my lord Aston*s servant or no.
X. H. S. Was Holt a servant to my W
Aston ?
Rami. He was a smith hard by bis gate, tad
he worked to the family.
X. If. S. Were yon subpeanaed op toot
trial of my lord Aston ?
Rau^l. Yes.
X. H. S. And it was for coming to that torn
he offered to murder you }
Rawl. Yes, I have several witnesses of *.
And by the blow that Thomas Sawyer gave
me, for a good while I could not lay my Be*'
on the pillow.
Sir W. Jones. CaH Thomas Lander. (W
he did not appear, being gone away tick)
Sir W. Jones. Because we would aot v*
your lordsbips time, seeing the man we call*
is gone away sick, we will call a witness tJj
another of my lord's witnesses, John Hon*
Call Thomas Thome. (Who was sworn.)
1461 ) STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680-*Fit* Popish Lord*. [ 1 4*3?
SirF. Win. My lords, if that other man come
by -and -by, we hope your lordships will give us
leave to ask him a question to the point which
we are now gone over. But my lord Stafford
did produce one John Morral, a barber that
lived at Ridgely, who said, that money was of-
fered him to swear against sir James Symons,
and Mr. Howard, and others. Vire call this
witness to give your lordships an account what
this Morral is, and how he hath behaved him-
self in this business.
Sir W. Jones, What do you say about John
WorraJ? Do you know him? — Thorne, Yes.
X. H. S, What do you know of him?
Thorne. I know he is a mao that used to
come often to my lord Aston's to Tixall ; to
trim him, he is a poor fellow that walks up and
down the country, and hath little x>r nothing to
live on.
X. H. S. Is he poor and needy ?
Thorne. Yes, he hath been sued for money,
and I have been contributory to keep him out
of prison.
Sir W. Jones. I ask yon in general, is he of a
good or bad reputation ?
Thorne, Indifferent.
Sir W. Jones, It is modestly said. My lords,
jour lordships have heard what kind of wit-
nesses have been brought against us: For two
of them, you have had particular matters; for
a third, our witness speaks modestly, that he is
• man of indifferent reputation. But now, my
lords, we must prove what endeavours have
been used to get other witnesses against our
witnesses; and for that, I desire to call one
Simon Wright, to tell your lordships what hath
been offered him to swear against Dugdale, and
by whom. (Wright, stood up and was sworn.).
Mr. Foley. My lords, we desire this witness
would give your lordships some account what
endeavours have been used by offers of money,
or otherwise, to make him swear against Dug-
dale, and by whom.
X. H. S. Hath any body endeavoured to
persuade you to swear against Dugdale?
Wright. Ye9, my lords.
X. H. S. Tell your whole story, who it was,
and what was offered you ?
Wright. The first time I was employed was
presently after the murder of sir £. Godfrey ;
and it was by one Mr. Plessington, that was in
Custody about that matter: And he sent me
one Sunday morning to the maraub of Win-
chester's, to desire him to consider what a
charge he lay at; and my lord did send him
word, he could not expect to be discharged so
soon. The Tuesday after he was discharged ;
and afterwards coming unto me, I told him I
was glad he had so good friends to get out so
soon. He told me, were I in the same condi-
tion, I should have as good, or better. Where-
upon Mr. Plessington and I were as good friends
as any about the town. I was bis barber, and
barber to Mr. Dugdale, and we were all great
^cronies. And Plessington told me, if I could
find a way to take off his evidence, or flestroy
him, I should have 700/. I went to enquire
out where I might have a security for the money,
and Mr. Reeves, an apothecary in Chancery-
Lane, did proffer me his note, and so did Mr,
Dewy the scrivener : but I did not, nor had
the money. And several times, particularly at.
the trial of Mrs. Price and Mr. Tasborough,
they woutd have had me sworn quite blank,
That he would have hired me to have sworn,
against them. And afterwards they would
have had me own I was forsworn, and they
would get me a pardon.
X. H. S, What had you sworn?
Wright. What I heard Mrs. Price say at the
Horse-shoe, in Chancery- Lane, as to the blast-
ing of Dugdale, as may be seen in the trial.
X. H. S. Who offered you that 700/.?
Wright, My lord Bellasis's steward.
X. H. S, What is his name ?
Wright. Plessington.
Sir 1?. Win. My lords, I think lie says he
was to swear against Mr. Dugdale; I desire he
would explain himself more particularly, and
tell who it was that ofiered tlie money to swear
against Dugdale.
* Wright. Mr. Plessington, my lords. And
since the trial of Mrs. Price, they did persuade
me to write a paper for the blasting the repu-
tation of Dugdale, and to shake his credit by it.
And that they carried to Mr. Drayton and sir
James Symons, and they being satisfied, would
have me write again to those gentlemen, and
they framed a letter for me to write. And
thereupon Mr. Longmore (I know the gentle-
man if I see him again) told me that sir James
Symons was better able to perform, than Dug-
dale was to promise ; and if I would stand by
it, I should be a happy man.
X. H. S. What had you said in that paper ?
Wright. I had said according as they direct-
ed me, That Mr. Dugdale would have given
me money to swear against sir James Symons
and Mr. Gerard.
X. H. S, Did you swear that?
Wright. No, I did not, but I was to have
done it.
X. H. S. How came it to pass you did nut
agree with them ?
Wright, My lords, I have had 4/. in hand,
and that I had by reason poverty came upon
me. Aud my lord Bellasis's steward came and
lay with roe, and spent 90s. upon me; but
finding that I was not absolutely true to them,
nor like to go through, they distrusted me : and
I borrowed an horse of capt. Chetwin, and got
down into the country, where 1 have been since
July last, till ( was fetched up by a messenger
to come and give evidence for the king. And
there I received a letter from my lord Ascon's
agent, That if I would call at Stafford, and
come up with my lord's witnesses, they would
bear ivy charges up to London. I have the
letter iu my pocket.
L. Staff. K it please yon, be may shew the
letter. (Which he did.)
Clerk, " This for Simon Wright, a barber, at
■ Deliver with care. Subscribed^
Your loving friend Abneit,"
1463] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chable* U. 1680 Proceedings ogam* the [1464
''Simon Wright ; I have just now received a
* letter from the lord Stafford, wherein my lord
* mentioned Wright to he one of his witnesses,
' and desired me forthwith to give Wright no-
* tice, that if possible, he should be at London
' on the Saturday night next, his trial being to
' be on the Tuesday after ; therefore if he
' pleased to corae-to him, he should give him
' money to bear his charges up, and he should
* come up with my lord's witnesses. Abnett.'
(This is the substance of the letter as it was
taken.;
Sir W. Jones. I presume your lordships will
be pleased to take notice, he was intended a
witness for my lord ; and it was supposed then
that he was able to say something, but he was
not produced by my lord yesterday.
L. Staff. Pray, my lords, give me leave, as
to this witness; I desire, if you please, I may
have time to prove something against this
man till to:morrow: I have enough against
him.
Serj. Maynard. You will find another wit-
ness, I suppose, by that time.
L. Staff. No, I will not find him, I have him
already ; I have enough against this fellow.
L. H. S. You shall have time to say what
' you will, my lord.
Serj. Maj/nard. I would my lord would name
his witness.
L. Staff. I will name him to you, since you
ask it, it is Dodd ; he knows what I mean well
enough.
Wright. I do not know him, my lord, I as-
sure you.
Sir W. Jones. My Lords, we will go on now
to another matter. My lord Stafford was pleased
to object, that Mr. Dugdale did talk much of
letters and poceedings, but was able to shew
none of them. My lords, we will give an account
how that comes about : Mr. Dugdale, as in
part bath been proved already, was apprehen-
sive of being accused for the plot : nay, I think
wc shall prove he was afraid be had been in the
proclamation against those traitors and Jesuits
that were fled. We shall prove, that Mr. Dug-
dale, to st cure himself, and his then friends (for
he was not then come over to mnke any dis-
covery) did burn a great many letters and pa-
pers that did relate to those proceeding-, and
did not leave any thing remaining; hoping
thereby to prevent a discovery. We will call
witnesses that were by when it was done, and I
think that will be some answer to this objec-
tion. Call Elizabeth Eld, and Anne Eld.
Elizabeth Eld sworn.
Sir JF. Win. My Lords, if your lordships
please, we would ask her this general question ;
What she knows of Mr. Dugdale's burning a
great many letters and papers, at what place,
and about what time?
Elizabeth Eld. I cannot possiBly say to the
time; I burnt some writings for him when he
went away, he desired me to burn them, he did
not tell me what writings they were. He said,
the times were troublesome, and if he should be
siclr upon the road where he was going he woold
not have all his papers seen ; but be desired
me to burn them. And I took and burnt them
all but one book; and my sister asked if that
book should be burnt : he said, No, there was
nothing of treason in it. I asked him if there
were any thing of treason in tbe others ; aod
he said, Do yon think there was?
Sir W. Jones'. How long was this before he
went away ?
Eliz. Eld. That morning when he went
away.
Sir W. Jones. How many papers were there?
Eliz. Eld. I cannot say how many.
Sir W. Jones. I do not ask you the comber,
but the quantity, was there a bushel?
E. Eld. I cannot say; they were rolled op,
and put in his pockets and his breeches.
L. H. S. Were they parchments or papers?
JB. Eld. They were papers.
L. H. S. Were they letters ?
E. Eld. I did not see what they were, hot
they were wrapt up together ; they might be
the accounts of the house, for what I know.
Sir F. Win. But she says, as I take it, that
Mr. Dugdale said there was treason in thru.
E. Eld. No, he said, Did I think there was?
He said it was no matter for burning that little
book, there was no treason in that; and when
I asked him if there was any in the others, he
said, Do you think there was ?
„jL. H. S. Was it one or two bundles?
JB. Eld. There were several bundles, they
were not tied up, but taken in bandfuls aod
thrown into the fire.
Mr. Foley. If my lord Stafford will ask her
no question, we will call up another.
E. Eld. My Lords, I did see Mr. Dogdale
take a glass of cyder, and I heard htm say, aod
wish it might be his damnation, and he might
sink in the place where he stood, if be knew
any thing of the plot.
Sir W. Jones. I pray what religion are jw
of? I don't ask you to disparage you.
E. Eld. A Roman Catholic.
L. H. S. When was it that he said that ?
JE. Eld. When be was in Staffordshire.
Anne Eld was then sworn.
Mr. Foley. Tell my lords what you know of
any papers that were burnt by Mr. Dugdale,
or by his direction, and at what time.
A. Eld. Mr. Dugdale came tomjM***
house over night, and the next morning (before
he went away) he brought a great many papen
be had in his -breeches, and in bis pockety
bundled together, and he desired as to bora
them in the flame of a candle.
L. H. S. Why did he desire you to bom
them ?
A. Eld. He said, the times were troubtewaie,
and being to travel, he was to go to dif**
places, and if lie were taken, people woold think
nim a plotter, haviog all those papers abort
him.
L. H. 5. Did he burn the book at that
time?
1465] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 — Five Popish Lords.
[14CG
A. lid. No.
L. H. S. Why not ?
A. Eld. I found that book, and asked him,
if that should be burnt ; he said. No, lay that
by, it might do good seven years hence, there
is no treason in it. Says my sister to him, Is
there any treason in the rest ? Says he, Do you
think there is ? That was all.
Sir W. Jones. Not to trouble you longer, my
Lords, upon this, your lordships will be pleased
to remember, yesterday my lord Stafford was
pleased to offer by way of evidence, as if Mr.
Dugdale was a man of an ill reputation in these
particulars, That he had defrauded my lord
-Aston, that he was a mean roan, run in arrear
to my lord ; and that being in necessity, he be-
came a fit instrument to give false evidence.
We shall shew, That Mr. Dujtdale was a man
of estate ; that both before, and since he came
away from my lord Aston, he hath made it his
business to desire my lord to come to ac-
count; that he hath pressed him, and that
he does believe, and hath reason to believe
that there is money coming from my lord
Aston to him, and that a considerable sum.
Now, my lords, if we shall make it appear, that
he hath made it his business to come to ac-
count with my lord, I hope it will not be sup-
posed that he is afraid of it, or so needy, or so
mean. For this we call Michael' Noble and
Stephen Colledge.
Michael Noble sworn.
•
Sir John Trevor. What do you know of Mr.
Dugdale, and my lord Aston r
Noble. My lords, I can say little or nothing
as to Mr. Dugdale, for that 1 have never been
acquainted with him, but since the plot, and he
came to be an evidence ; but Mr. Dugdale
desired me to assist him as much as I could,
to make up his accounts with my lord Aston.
And we were twice at the Tower, one time we
spoke with my lord with great difficulty ; ano-
ther time we could not see him. There were
three books of account, two my lord would let
us see, but the third, wherein all the discharges
were, as Mr. Dugdale said, he would never let us
see, that is all I can say.
(Then Stephen Colledge* was sworn.)
L. H. 8. What is your name ?
Witness. Stephen Colledge.
Sir W. Jones. Declare to ray lords what you
know concerning Mr. Dugdale's pressing my
lord Aston to account with him.
Mr. Colledge. In January last I went along
with Mr. Dugdale, at his request, to the Tower,
with one Mr. Noble a barrister of the Temple,
and one Mr. Boson of Lyons-Inn, in order to
J.be making up accounts between Mr. Dugdale
and my lord Aston ; for he told me he was
going thither for that end. When we came
thither, we met with one captain Hawley, who
belongs to the lieutenant of the Tower, and we
* See the Trial of Stephen ColJedge, a. d.
J081, styra.
desired him to go to my lord Aston, and tell him
Mr. Dugdaje was there, in order to make up
his accounts with him. He went, and brings
an answer back again, that my lord was not at
leisure to speak with Mr. Dugcjale then, nor
none of us from him. And Mr. Haw ley said
he was then going up with the lords to nine
pins. Mr. Dugdale said, he was very ill used,
for he had been several times there before, and
he could not be admitted to speak with him.
He hath a little book, says he, (meaning my
lord) wherein there is an nccount made up under
his own hand, of almost two or three hundred
pounds ; which sum I cannot say, but one of
them I am certain of, which he hath denied
several times that he had it, (but I can prove
that he hath it :) If he will be pleased to pro-
duce that hook, we need not be a quarter of an
hour in making up the account. He did speak
of some other sums he had to place to account,
but so much was made up already. But cap-
tain Hawley saying he would not speak with
him, nor any of us from him, I did take the
liberty to say to captain Hawley, that it was
hard his lordship and his party should abuse
Mr. Dugdale at that rate, to make him his
debtor ; for now I understand by what Mr.
Dugdale said, 'my lord was his debtor: And
said I, if I can persuade Mr. Dugdale, he shall
publish his case, for the protestant interest suf-
fered by it, that be should be mado a debtor to
my lord when he was not so. And I believe
captain Hawley told my lord Aston what I did
say ; for when he came hack again from my
lord Aston, he said, my lord did acknowledge
be had that book, and it was ready to be pro-
duced, but he would stay till a counsellor of
his came out of the country, and till he had
spoke with the lieutenant ; for he would not
speak with Mr. Dugdale unless the lieutenant
were by, and in three or four days time he
would send for him : But I never heard that he
sent for him ever since. If it please your lord-
ships, I have one thing more that I remember :
There was a young man that belonged to my
lord Aston*s family, that heard Mr. Dugdale
was at captain Hawley's chamber, and came to
see him, and paid a very great respect to him,
and would stand bare to him though Mr. Dug-
dale desired him to put on his hat several
times. Some of us asked him, whether Mr.
Dugdale was thought to be such a knave,
when he lived with his lord, as they would
have made him since. No, said be, Mr.
Dugdale was as honest a gentleman as ever
lived in our family, I remember my lord Aston's
man said this to us tlien.
L. Staff. My lords, will you be pleased to
give me leave ; if I speak impertinently, I am
under your correction ; I conceive I shall have
something to answer to this, but I would first
know whether I may desire of your lordships,
that I may have my lord Aston here to give an
account of this matter.
Sir W. Jones. If he were here he could not be
heard, being a person accused for the sa.m.o
offence.
1467] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 6H0.—Proceedir%$ ugauut the [1468
L H. S. My .lord, he stands indicted for the
same treason, and cannot be a witness.
L. Staff. 1 beg your pardon, tny lords.
{Nicholas Bostih was sworn.)
X. if. & What is your name ?
Witness. Nicholas Boson.
Sir W. Jones. Declare to my lords what
you know concerning Mr. Dugdale's pressing
my lord Aston to come to an account.
Boson. In January last, I met with Mr. Dug-
dale, and one Mr. Noble and one Mr. Col I edge.
And Mr. Dugdale desired us to go down with
him to the Tower. He said he had an order
of the council to pass his accounts with my
lord Aston ; and when we came there, we en-
quired for captain Hawley, and desired him
that he would acquaint my lord Aston, that he
was there to account with him. Captain Haw-
ley went up to my lord Aston, and brought
word back again, my lord was not at leisure,
or would not speak with him, or to that effect ;
whereupou Mr. Dugdale said, it was very bard
that he should be aspersed to owe my lord
money, and he would not come to account with
him. For my lord Aston had a book or books
in his custody which he would stand by, and
the} would determine the business between
them ; that my lord Aston was almost two hun-
dred pounds jn his debt. And pray, says he,
captain Hawley, do me the favour to go to my
lord Aston again, and desire him that he will
be pleased to produce that book or books. If I
owe rav lord any money ,1 am ready to pay him.
And if be owe me any, I hope his lordship will do
the like by me ; as I am sure be does 200/. Cap- .
tain Hawley went away, and brought this an-
»wer,that his lordship would send for him in some
short time, as soon as a counsellor did come out
of the country, whom he had entrusted with the
books ; and that was one Birch, as near as I
remember.
Sir W. Jones. We have done with. this wit-
ness. And because we desire to conclude as
to Mr. Dugdale, we shall call some persons of
quality as to his reputation, my lord having gone
about to make him a man of no reputation.
Boson. I can speak too about the boy that
came in.
Sir W. Jones. There is no need of that now :
We shall trouble you no further, Sir. Your
lordships will be pleased to observe, That Mr.
Philips, the minister, that was one of my lord
Stafford's witnesses, did say, Mr. Dugdale was
■ man of whom many spoke well, and some in-
differently, and perhaps that is the case of most
good men ; for scarce any are so good that all
speak well of them : But that many should
•peak well, and some indifferently of him, may
be the lot of a very good man. We shall call
some witnesses, and begin with Mr. Whitby a
justice of the peace, that will tell you he hath
known Mr. Dugdale long, and what reputation
he is of.
Thomas Whitby, esq. sworn.
Sir John Trevor, My Lords, we desire your
lordships would be pleased to ask bim what
reputation and credit Mr. Dugdale was in, is
my lord As) on'* service.
Whitby. My Lords, I have known Mr. Dag*
dale to be a servant to my lord Aston this owe
or ten years; he was steward to him, and there
was no other person between my lord and him;
he received my lord's rents and debts for him,
exchanged his lands for him in forty places;
I exchanged some land with my lord myself)
and he was the man that did it. He waiver/
hard for my lord's advantage, and did what
he could for my lord's profit.
Sir John Trevor. YVhat do you know more
as to his dealing?
Mr. Whitby. He was a person that was not
to iny lord, and did rule and govern the rest
of the family. All the servants were under
him.
Sir John Trevor. Was he looked upon to be
an honest man in his dealings?
Mr. Whitby. As to what I had to deal with
him, he was an honest man, I never heard to
the contrary. I have heard some tradesmen
complain that he hath put them off without
money, would not pay them what my lord
owed them.
L. Staff. I desire that Mr. Whitby msj
be here when I shall have occasion to say
something to him.
Sir W.Jones. That will be, I hope, by sod
by, for we have almost done. Call Mr. Wil-
liam SoQtball. (Who was sworn.)
X. If. S. What is your name.
Witness. William South all.
Mr. Foley. Give my Lords an account bow
long you have known Dugdale, and what you
know of him.
Southall. My Lords, 1 have known Mr. Ste-
phen Dugdale about eight years.
Mr. Foley. How hath he behaved himself}
What reputation hath he borne?
Mr. Southall. Truly he hath always had a
good repute, not only with my lord s tenants
but also with the workmen, and those people
that had dependence on the family; and truly
I never heard any ill report of him, but only
what is spoken of now of late.
Sir F. Winnington. Were you very well sc-
quainted with him ?
Southall. Yes, bnt never had any business
with him. Several discourses I have had with
him about the popish religion.
Sir John Trevor. My Lords, I only obserfi
this, This gentleman is coroner of the couoJJi
and hath a general knowledge of the couatj,
and must know most men there.
SirF. Winnington. You are a coroner of W
county of Stafford, Sir, I think.
Southall. Yes, I am one of them.
Mr. Foley. What was he in my lord's house? j
Southall. Bailiff, and a kind ofgovernor, pro- >
viding meat, and paying workmen; most of ths j
things of the family went through his bands.
Sir F. Winnington. My Lords, This genu*
man is a coroaer of the county, and can sp***
materially to other particulars besides ibis*
1460] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chables II. 1(580.— -Fwe Popish Lords.
[1470
Dugdale's reputation ; for he was a person who
was present when he made hifffirst discovery of
this plot, and was very instrumental in prevail-
ing with him to do it. He will give your lord-
ahips an account of the whole business, and I
would rather he himself should relate all the
progress of it, than take upon me to recite any
of the passages.
Mr. SouthalL There was, the latter end of No-
vember (1678,) a report that Mr, Dugdale was
gone away from my lord Aston's suddenly and
strangely ; and it was the common report in
the country that he was in the plot, and was
iled for it. In the beginning of December 1
went through a town called Great Hey wood, a
mile and a half from Tixall, where my lord
Aston and Mr. Dugdale dwelt. I called at Mr.
Thomas Whitby's house, the gentleman that
was up here lately, and he was telling me, Dug-
dale was come again, and apprehended by the
watch at Heywood upon suspicion. He told
me further, he would make no confession of the
plot, though he had been under examination
before sir Walter Bagott, Mr. Kinnersley, and
I think he said sir Thomas Whitgrave. But he
told me divers passages by which we both sus-
pected he might be concerned and know of
the plot. We thought so from the various re-
ports and rumours we had heard in the country,
and from those great grounds of suspicion that
were given us. As 1 returned from Heywood,
I resolved I" would speak with Dugdale the first
opportunity, for I had a strong persuasion I
could prevail with him to make a discovery of
the plot: But before I did speak with him,
there wfts one Goldsmith my kinsman, had
some difference fallen out between him and
Mr. Ansell, and Mr. Dugdale, touching a deed,
the deciding of which they had refesred to Mr.
Dugdale. And be desired me to go to Mr.
Dugdale to Stanprd with him ; I was very glad
of the opportunity. Ansell was to bring one
Hanson, Mr. Goldsmith was to bring me, and
Mr. Dugdale was to bring one Mr. Gerard,
that was concerned in the pre-mortgage, that
we might all have discourse together. I pro-
mised to meet them at the time appointed j
and accordingly the 23d of December, two
days before Christmas-day, I came to the place
in Stafford, where Dugdale was, about ten
o'clock in the morning, where they met accord-
ing to their promise. We had not been in the
bouse longer than a quarter of an hour, but the
king's business, which I thought was a business
of greater weight than any particular business,
did stick much upon me ; and I resolved before
I spoke to the particular business about which
we all met, I would first speak to Mr. Dugdale
to put that in execution which I had resolved.
After a short space of time, I desired Mr. Dug-
dale that I might speak with him in a chamber
frivately between him and me ; he told me, if
would go into the next chamber to his, he
would come to me. Accordingly I went, and
ttaid a short space of time, ana Mr. Dagdale
came to me. I desired him to make the door
tOj which he did; and I began thus with him.
Mr. Dugdale, said I, for some years last past,
since I came to be acquainted with you, I have
always had a good esteem of you, and you a
good report in the country where you live ; and
now there is an opportunity put into your hands
to serve his majesty and his Protestant subjects,
if (as an honest man ought) you will discharge
your duty. Mr. Dugdale replied, Sir, what do
you mean ? why said I, I mean this in a few
words, here is a plot discovered in London, and
if it be in London, I conceive it hath been in t
part acted at Tixall ; and if there, of necessity,
you having such a government and rule over
that house, it is impossible but you must know
it. He looked upon me verv earnestly, aud
gave me a smile, but answered me not. I re*
plied to him again thus ; said I, There is a na*
tural allegiance which every subject owes to his
sovereign ; and by that it is required, that if tray
subjects know of any plot or any conspiracy
against his person and government, they ought
in conscience to discover it; therefore, Mr.
Dugdale, said I, discbarge a good conscience,
and tell what you know, for it is commonly sus-
pected you are concerned in the plot. He an-
swered, I have taken the oaths of allegiance
and supremacy. When and where? said I,
Before his majesty's justices of the peace at
Stafford, said he. Then, said I, there is not
only th%t natural allegiance which every sub-
ject owes to his prince, but the oath of Almighty
God lies upon your conscience ; therefore dis-
charge a good conscience, and tell your know-
ledge. He stood pausing a little while, and by
and by, said he, If I should make any discovery r ,
how should I be secured of my life r You need
not question that, said I, nor his majesty's gra-
cious pardon, which be hath promised in his
proclamation. Have you seen the proclama-
tion ? Yes, said he. Said I, you have but a
short time, a day or two to discover in, for this
is the 23rd, and as I do conceive, you ought to>
discover before the 25th. He stood pausing a
while about the time; said I, You need not
question his majesty's gracious promise, and to
encourage you thereto, there is not only an as-
surance of pardon, but a promise of reward of
two hundred pounds. Said he, if I do discover
any thing of my knowledge, I matter not, nor
desire (f do not know which it was) his ma-
jesty's money, so I may be secured of my life*
tfpon this, my lords, said I, Sir, you need not
?|uestion his majesty's gracious promise, my life
or yours if you have not his pardon ; but I
will take special care about it, tor I will send
up a letter to London, directed to some of the
lords, (which I accordingly did) and I will also
speak to captain Lane, who is a worthy gentle-
tleman, to interpose in it too. Then, said be,
I will make a discovery of the plot. Then,
my lords, he told me first some particular pas-
sages relating to this lord at the bar, and also,
concerning Mr. Evers and Mr. Petres, now in.
custody, and some other particulars : 1 wished
him that he would speak no more at that time,
And when I parted with him, forthwith I con-
sulted with myself what I ought to do in point
1471] STATE TRIADS, 32 Charles II. 1680,— Proceedings againM the [Utt
of law ; I knew, I mast discover that a further
discovery mip be be made of what had passed
between us. Then I went to Mr. Freke, who
was either mayor or justice of peace in Stafford,
and told him he must come with me to serjeant
Parry's. He asked me what to do. I told
him, when he came, he should know ; he ac-
cordingly came, and took short notes of a fur-
ther discovery, and Mr. Freke he certified it up
to Mr. Chetwyn, who was then at London.
Upon the day following, the 24th, I rose and
went to one Mr. Vernon, one of his majesty's
justices of the peace, and told him what had
happened, and he sent fur captain Lane, ano-
ther of his majesty's justices of the peace, and
they took an examination of him. I have
done, my lords, with reference to his discovery,
and the time.
X. JET. S. Do you remember what he men-
tioned of my lord Stafford ? What he said of
him?
Mr. Soulhall. Truly, my lords, I can only
tell what he said at the first examination : He
told me, the first time my lord Stafford spoke
with him was at Tixall Hall, nigh to the Gate-
house, betwixt the gate and the hall. My lord
was going into the hall, and my lord Stafford
told him it was a very hard thing, or to that
purpose, that they could not say their prayers
out in private, and after told him the same day
or night t'one, that they had some work to do,
and he might or must be instrumental in it.
This was the effect of what he told me passed
the first time. Another time I think he told
me he was to have 500/. to kill the king.
X. H. S. When did be tell you so ?
Mr. Southall, Not till captain Lane exa-
, mined him, which was the second time he was
examined ; which was about the 20th.
X. H. S. Did he swear that before Vernon
and Lane ?
Mr. Southall. Yes, he did, I could give
your lordships a breviate of what he swore then.
L. Staff. I desire he may give that breviate.
Mr. Southall. I took some notes of what he
•wore then.
X. If. S. Have you them by you, or about
you?
Mr. Southall. Yes, my lords, I have.
X. H. S. Produce them.
Mr. Southall. I took this upon some paper I
had in_ my pocket, and is the substance of what
he swore. (Which, he delivered to the Clerk.)
Clerk. "December the 24th, 1678,. Mr.
Dugdale informeth, That in September last, he
met in Tixall the lord Stafford, nigh to the
gates, who said, That it was sad they were
troubled they could not say their prayers, hut
in a hid maimer ; but suddenly there would be
a reformation to the ttomish religion, and if
there be a good success we shall enjoy our
freedom. And .that upon the 20th day of Sep-
tember, 1678, the said lord Stafford told this
informant, That there was a des;gn in hand,
and if he would undertake in it, he should have
a good reward, &c. and make himself famous.
The same day this informant went up into Mr.
Francis Even's chamber, to know what nw
lord Stafford meant by his words ; and he first
made him swear secrecy upon his knees, aod
then told him, That he might be a penoo em-
ployed, and have a good reward, and make
himself famous, if he would stand instrumental
with others in taking away the king's life, bj
shooting, or otherwise ; and need not fear, lor
thattbe^pope had excommunicated lbekMg,and
that all that were excommunicated by bim were
heretics, and they might kill them, and be ca-
nonized for saints in so doing. And that, the
design was to kill the duke of Monmoutb is
well as the king.
" December the 29th, 1678, this informant
saith, That since the 20th day of September
last, the said lord Stafford did promise him 500/.
as to the carrying on of the Plot, and that Mr.
Evers should give him instructions about tie
same. And that the lord Stafford told him,
he did not doubt of his fidelity, for Mr. Even
had given him a good character to he trusty.
And that the lord Stafford told this informant,
That there was a design to take away the life
of the king, and the life of the duke of Mon-
mouth, and that several ochers were to be em-
ployed in the design besides this iaformaoL
And that this had been thoroughly considered
of to be the fittest way for the establishing of
the Romish religion. And that at the said
time, the said lord Stafford Laid bis hand upon
his head, and prayed God to keep him in his
good mind, and to be faithful to what be bad
entrusted him in, &c.
" And this informant further saith, Tbtt be
doubting of the lord Stafford's payment, the
said Mr. Evers promised him the making good
of my lord Stafford's promise, ore.
" And farther saith, That he saw a letter di-
rected from my lord Stafford to Mr. Even, sod
he read the same, and knows it to be mj lord
Stafford's writing ; and that therein was writ-
ten, that things went on well beyond the seas,
for the carrying on the design, and so he booed
it did do here in England, &c"
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we will examine
no further as to Mr. Dugdale, but will cos-
elude with this witness, and I think be speab
fully to him. The next witness we called wts
Dr. Oates, and your lordships have been
pleased to observe, That what exceptions biw
been made against him, have not been so modi
by witnesses produced, as by opposing one part
of his testimony to another, what he swore *
one time to what he swore at another : To
which we shall give an answer when we come
to sum up our evidence ; for there will be**
need of witnesses to what is objected against
M r. Oates, but only of observation*. But sj to
the third witness Turbervile, we have something
to answer of witness, and something bj war of
making observation. We will first call our wit-
nesses.
[Then Mr. Southall desired his Paper again,
winch the Court told him he should haven copj
of from the Clerk.]
147;*]
TRIALS,
Sir W< Jones. And our first witness » to this
purpose : Ir was objected against Mr. Turber-
vile
L. H. & Have yon done with Dngdsle ? You
bate forgot to give an answer to the objection
about the point of time when Hobsoo told him
of the design.
Sir W. Jtnus. M y lords, that will be when
W« come to mate our observations ; we shall
not answer that by witnesses ; when we cotne
te/ torn op oar evidence, 1 doubt not but we
ahaR give a sufficient answer to that objection.
But to go on with what is to be answered by
testimony, your lordships will be pleased to re-
naeraber, that Turbervile did inform your lord*
ships, That he had some converse wiih my lord
Stafford at Paris, being introduced by tome of
the fathers. My lords, we shall call a gentle-
imfen that happened to be there at that time,
that will tell you, ihough he did not know my
lord Stafford, yet he knew that Turbervile did
converse much with an Englith lord in that
place where my lord does acknowledge his
lodging to be. He will give you some further
ssccount how Turbervile went to Diep in expec-
tation of my lord, and bow he had a message
from the lord, though he did not know my lord
Stafford. He will give you a further account
how Mr. Turbervile was earnest with him to go
to Calais, and then told him, he might go over
with nry lord at that time. The use we make
of these particulars we will forbear to mention
till we sum up our evidence. We desire to
examine Mr. Thomas Mort. (Who was sworn.)
Sir IT. Joner. We desire to ask MV. Mort,
whether he knew Mr. Turbervile at Paris, and
at what time.
X. H. 8: What say you, Sir ?
Mort. Yes, my lords, I knew him, it is now
five years past since we were in Paris. He and
I had been intimately acquainted before, we
lived in the same family. I was several times
in company with him, and many times in his
brothers company, which was a monk, and I
heard him say his brother had an intention he
should be of the same order. And some time
after that he altered his resolution, and design-
ed for England, and I had such a design too to
go from Paris, where I was an apprentice.
And being acquainted with him, I resolved to
go over with him, and he told me, his brother
the monk bad introduced him into. the favour
of a lord ; as I take it, it was my lord Stafford,
as well as I can remember. And that there
was a vessel to- come to Diep, a yacht, and we
should go thither to go over with my lord. And
Mr. Turbervile told me, we must make as much
haste as mi^ht be, for it were better to be there
a day or two too soon, than too late. We
went to Diep, and- when we came there, the
vessel was not come. - And when we had been
there a fortnight, or thereabouts; we were put
to a great deal of inconveniency, by reason of
onr long stay there : And, I think, if I mist aire
not, I or some of tbe company said, Cursed in
he that relies or depends on a broken staff; ill*
lading, as I believe, to my lord Staffofd'roaint.
VOL. vn.
l 1630 — Frvt Pvpuk Lords. [1474
Mr. Turbervile told me, if we did go to Calais,
we might go over with my lord ; but how or by
what means he understood the vessel would be
there, and my lord go that way, I know not.
But we did not go thither, we had another op-
portunity ; there was a small vessel, whether a
fish- boat or a coal-vessel I cannot tell, a very
little one it was, but we took the opportunity/
and came over in it.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we shall make use of
it in due time ; we only call him now to prove
his converse with a lord at Paris.
. L. H. S. Did you ever see Turbervile at a
lord's house in Paris? "
Mori. No, my lords, not that I can remem-
ber ; but I think, as near as I remember, I will
not be positive, i^valked about Luxemburgh-
House u hile he went, as he said, to the place?
where tbe lord lodged. I was thereabouts til*
he came.
L. Staff. Id what street was it ?
Mort: Indeed I cannot tell.
Sir Wi Jones. This man is very cautious.
X. If. S. Can you tell die lord's name ?
Mort. I do not remember his title, but F
think it was my lord Stafford.
Sir W. Jonts. Pray who were you servant
to ? Who were you under.
Mort . My lord Powis. I served as a Pager
to him, when Mr. Turbervile was gentleman*
usher to the young lady, one of bis daughters,
since married to my lord Mollineux.
Sir W. Jours. Will my lord please to ask
him any questions ? If not, we will go on.
L. Staf. No, not at present.
Sir W. Jones. Wellthen, my lords, we desire
to call one Mr. Powell, a gentleman or* Grays-'
inn, to tell you when he first heard Mr. Tur-
bervile speak of this evidence he hath now
given,
(Mr. Powell was sworn.)
Sir W. Jones. Pray will you give an account
what discourse you had with Mr. Turbervile
about the Plot, and when.
Powell. About this time was twelve month
we discoursed about it, and he told me, that he
had much to say in relation to the Plot ; but
truly he did not name any particulars to me at
that time. '
Sir W. Jones. Where was this, we desire to
ask him.
Powell. It was at the King's bead tavern in
Holborn.
Sir W. Jones. Are you sure it was a year
ago ?
Powell. It was about this time twelvemonth.
Sir W. Jones. What was the reason he did
not think fit then to reveal it ? Did he tell tbe
reason ?
Powell. I thiitk he gave roe a reason, that he
was something cautiuus,*because he feared he
might disoblige hU brother at that time.
Sir W.Jones. Did he give you any further
reason ?
Powell: I think he said he was afraid he
should not have encouragement enough! for
5B
1475} STATE TRIALS, 3^2 Chaelm II, 16Q0.— Proceedings against the [Ul6
be said some of the witnesses had been dis-
couraged and he was afraid he should be so too.
Sir W. Jones. Now we shall call a few wit-
nesses to Mr. Turbervile s reputation, which
have known htm a good while. Mr. Hobby.
L. H, S. Was this tune that Mr. Powell
speaks of, that he did discourse with him, be-
fore or alter that of Yalden ?
Sir IV. Jones. My lords, we do not know
of any discourse with Yalden ; nay, we be-
lieve none such was. The witness speaks of a
year since.
L. H. S. What time does Yalden speak of?
Sir W. Jones. February or March last, and
this was a year ago.
L. H. S. This was then before that certainly.
Sir W. Jones. We desire that Mr. Arnold, a
member of the House of Commons, may be
•worn. (Which was done in his place.)
Sir W. Jones. Do you know Mr. Turbervile ?
Arnold. My lords, I do know him very well,
and I have known him these two years ; He
came recommended to roe from his grace my
lord duke of Buckingham. My lords, presently
after the breaking out of the Plot, he was sent
down into our country by the lords of your
lordships house that were of the committee,
and a particular recommendation from the
duke of Buckingham to me, to give him di-
rection and assistance to find out a priest, one
Charles Pritchard, and I think also if I mistake
nob, one Morgan, my lord Powis's priest. I
apdke with him before he went, I sent letters
down, with him, I spoke with him afterwards :
He hath been in my family seme time ; he hath
behaved himself very well there, and in several
other sober families nearly related to me. I
have not heard a better character of any man
from all sorts of people, than of him, in my life.
Sir W. Jones. Did he tell you any thing of
the Plot, sir ?
Arnold. My lords, I did several times find
by him, that he knew much ; having conversed
both in - prance and here with Jesuits and
priests. I pressed him oftentimes to discover
his knowledge, and to come in 10 the council ;
but he gave me such answers why he did not,
that I CQuld not answer.
Sir W. Jones, What were they, sir.? Pray
tell us.
Arnold. That the witnesses that were come in,
were in danger of their lives; that they were
discouraged, that they were discountenanced ?
and as long as the duke of York had that power
in the council that he had, and my lady Powis's
brother had that power over these countries
where he lived, (which his lordship is often
pleased to call his province) he durst not do it
lor his life.
Sir W. Jones. Do you know Mr. Turbervile,
$xxd how long have you known him f
(Then Mr.- Hobby was sworn.)
Bobby. My lords, I have known Mr. Turber-
vile near four years.
L. H. S, What account can you give of
him?.
Hobby. My lords, my first acquaintance witk
him, was at my brother's house in Glamorgan-
shire. When I came there, my brother shewed
him me, and told roe he was a very worthy man,
but his friends had cast him off because be would
not take orders in the lloinish church. He
lived at my brother's above a year ; and wbeft
he came thence, my brother writ a letter of
recommendation to my rather to receive him
there, and do him all the kindness be could.
He came to my father's and staid there near
half a year, or thereabouts, I cannot tell to a
month or so. Since I have known him often is
this town, and been in his company ; and 1
never knew, nor heard but that he Debated
himself like a worthy honest gentleman : Bat
as to any thing of the Plot, I know nothing.
Sir W. Jones. We ask you not to tbati
Where is Mr. Matthews r*
(Then Mr. Matthews, a divine, was sworn.)
Sir W. Jones. Mr. Matthews, pray teU my
lords whether you know Mr. Turbervile, sod
how long you have known him?
Mot thews. Yes, my lords, I have known
Mr. Edward Turbervile for about four yean
last past,
L. H. S. Goon, what do you know of him?
Matthews. My lords, he lived some time in
my neighbourhood ; I never knew bhn goilir
of an ill action at all but, a person of a ray
fair reputation : He acknowledged hansel/ a
Roman catholic, and was pleased to give me
the liberty to talk to him. I found him incli-
nable to hearken to me, and to those reasons I
offered to him ; and I found he had a mind
to quit that religion, being convinced by the
arguments I gave him; aod at several timcf
he hath since told me, those were some of the
great motives of his coming over from Uw
Romish to the Protestant communion.
L. H. S. What were the motives ?
Matthews. One was the hazard I toM bin
of, in his living in the Roman Communion, as
to salvation ; another was the excellency QJ
the doctrines of our church, its principles ssd
practices.
L. H. S. Did he acknowledge to yon, be
knew any thins of the Plot ?
Matthews. No, not a syllable of it
Sir W. Jones. We do net call him to U*
purpose.
(Then another Witness was sworn.)
L. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. William Seys.
Sir W. Jones. Pray will you acquaint »7
lords, what you know of Mr. Turbervile.
Seys. I have been acquainted with him (best
two or three years, and I never knew bin
guilty of any ill action in my life. I ****
heard of any body that could asperse him; bet
be hath behaved himself like a very honest cirtf
gentleman. ,
Sir W. Jones. Where were y<m icoasttt*
with him ?
Sky*% Here In London*
1477] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chailbs II. \6&0.— Five Popish Lords.
[1479
(Then Capt. Scudamore stood up again.)
Sir W. Jones. He was sworn before, we
desire be may speak to Mr. Turbervile's repu-
tation.
Capt. Scudamore. My lords, I have known
Mr. Turbervile for these three quarters of a
year, I bate been acquainted with him in
London ; he bath been much at my house,
and ail that while I saw nothing in him, but
that he is a very honest gentleman.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, I think we have but
one matter more, which we should have men-
tioned Iwfbre, but that our witness was not
come: but I hope we shall have the favour of
some honourable lords that do know the thing ;
and I think there are many more that can
prove it. My lord. Stafford, who is very an-
cient, it may be, may not remember matters
exactly ; I blame him not ; oblivion is the
great infirmity of old age. He was pleased to say
yesterday, he had so good health, that he had
not been lame, I think he said for these forty
years ; but at last his page said, for the last
seven years: and I shall con (me our proof to
that time. My lords, I think there are some
honourable lords here, that have seen this
noble lord, that says he was not lame in so many
years, very near about the time that he was
confined and imprisoned, go lame and come
lame to the bouse, and ease himself by holding
up bis kg sometimes. My Lords I do not say,
the circumstance is very material, but only to
shew ray lord may forget himself, which I
shall impute to his old age.
L. Staff. 1 will acknowledge it, if your lord-
ships please ; I did say I had not been lame
with the gout so long, no more I have not. I
was troubled with the Sciatica many years, but
it is above eight or nine years since that ; and
I took so moch opium, that that, and my going
to the Bath, cured me. I have oftefl come
lame to the house, out of weariness and old
age; but if ever I put my foot upon a stool for
the gout, or was ever so lame as to put my
foot upon a cushion to ease it, I will admit
what be speaks to : I will acknowledge thus
much to save time.
Sir W. Jones. Seeing my lord is pleased to
go off from it, I will call no witnesses to it.
L. Staff I go off from nothing, I was lame
three or four years when the king came in : I
went to the oath, and afterwards into Ger-
many ; and what with opium, and the Bath, I
was cured, and nave not been lame these,
eight or nine years. 1 have not? had the gout
in my foot for these many years, and I aever
was so lame to put my foot on a stool,' to my
remembrance., l *
Sir W. Jones. I do not think we shall need
to trouble your lordlhips more with this matter;
that my lord 'was lame some time, he is pleased
to confess ; one witnesssays, that he put his foot
upon a cushion ; my lord doth not acknow-
ledge that.
L. Staff. I was never lame at Paris.
Sir W. Jones, That a man that is tome does
sometimes ease his foot, is no hard conse-
quence, I think.
L. Staff. I deny I was lame- then; I walked
about the streets of Paris, I desire I may not
be misunderstood.
Sir W. Jones. I most then desire, under his
lordship's favour, if he will not acknowledge it
to be within seven years, that we may prove
it, and falsify bis witness, the page.
L. Staff. I have gone with a stick to the
House, 1 acknowledge it, and been lame with
weariness.
Sir F. Winnington. The objection went to
the credit of our witness, and therefore we de-
sire to answer it : my lord syas not lame, as he
says, for so many years ; but if we prove that
within toss time my lord hath been lame, it
will take off that objection from our witness.
And we desire a noble lord or two of -this
House may testify what they know. And first
the earl of Stamford ; (who was sworn.)
Earl of Stamford. My lords, T think I have
not had the honour to sit in this House much
above seven years, but long since that time I
have seen my lord Stafford come lame into the
House of Peers, and that is all I can say.
L. Staff I have come lame with a stick to
the House, I say.
Sir F. Winnington. My lords, we desire that
noble lord, my lord Lovelace, may be sworn ;
(which was done.)
Lord Lovelace. My lords, the account that
I can give your lordships, is this ; I cannot as*
certain any tune, but I am sure, and I do de-
clare it upon my honour, and the oath I have
taken, that I have seen my lord Stafford lame
in the House of Lords within. Jess than these
seven years.
L. Staff. If be goes home to. the Tower, he
may see me lame, but never put my foot upon
a stool.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, your lordships will
be pleased to remember, we did call a witness,
one Thomas Launder, and the accodnt we
had of him was, he was gone sick from the bar,
he was very sick indeed ; but being just now
brought, we desire he may be heard, though it
be out of time : we call him to the reputation
of Holt. '
{Thomas Launder was sworn.)
Sir John Trevor. Do you declare to my lords,
whether you know Samuel Holt ?
. launder. Yes, my lords, I do.
L.M. S. What do you know of him ?
launder. He is a smith, my lord,
- L. H. S. What reputation is he of?
Launder. Indifferent, my lord.
Sir W. Jones. What do you mean by thtft,
good or bad ? speak plainly.
Launder. A drunken bot, a man that will
drink, and rant, and tear the ground, and sing
two or three days or a week together, and lose
his time.
Sir F. Win. I would ask this man, whether
he was summoned as a witness upon any trial
in relation to the Plot?
M7<J] STATE TRIALS, S2 Cmajues 1L ldSO.~Pwd^ o£OmJf sfe [llfO
X. H. S. Were you ever summoned as a wit-
ness abouc ihe Plot ?
Launder. My lords, I was summoned con-
ceniingjny lord Alton's trial, and 1 came up
with my lord Aston's people as an evidence.
Sir W. Jones. Had you any offer of money,
•nd^what sum ? — Launder. Y es, my lords.
Sir F. Win. Acquaint my lords with it.
L. H. S. Who offered it you? and when ?
and for what?
Sir W. Jones. For what was thai money
offered you?
• Launder. The money was not absolutely
offered me, but I was to have an horse to ride
on, and money in my pocket, if I could take
off James Anseil, Dtigdale's evidence.
L. H. S. Who came and offered it to you ?
launder. I was sent for by Mr. Fox to
Ti sail- Hall, and there was my old lord's bro-
ther fpr one, and Mr. Thomas Aston, that is,
this young lord's brother, and Mr. francis
Aston, who is ;ny lord's eldest son, were in a
room together, and this Thomas Sawyer that
was here, and more were iu the room when they
promised all these things.
X. H. S. If you would do what ?
Launder. If I would take my oath, that this
James Anseil was a perjured rogue.
L. H. S. Did all they make you this promise?
Launder. Yes, my lords.
Mr. Foley. It was a consult together about
taking off ihe evidence.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we have done with
our witnesses ; if my lord Stafford please to
conclude, we are ready to do so too.
L. Staff. What should I conclude? about
those witnesses you. have now brought in ?
Sir W. Jones. Your lordship may please to
conclude your evidence, we are ready to con-
clude on our part*
Staff. These new witnesses, must I say
what I can say against litem presently ? I can-
cot do it, I know very few of them.
X. H. 8. iiave you any witnesses here, my
lord?
L. Staff. I cannot possibly have any ; for
I did not kuow, nor guess these people would
be brought against me : they are persons I know
nothing of. Anseil I have seen four ■ or five
times, I may have seen the rest, but I do not
know them to be able to give an account of
them.
L. H. S. If you have any witnesses here to
support the credit of your own witnesses that
have been impeached, you may call them.
JL. Staff. I have none, my lords.
L. H. S. Will your lordship recapitulate the
material part 3 of your defence, that the process
may be closed ?
L. Staff I am very unready for it, my lords.
Let me ask Mr. Whitby a question, if I must
have ao more time.
(Mr. Whitby stood up.)
X. H. $. There fie is ; what would your lord-
ship have with him ?
L. Staff. I do not know the gentleman*
Whitby. Nor I your lordship.
L. Staff. I ask bim upon the oath he hath taken,
I know he wiU speak truth, whether fa# dial not
some years ago tell my lord Aston that is dead,
this lord's father, That Dugdale was a knave and
persuaded him to euro him away, (I say not it
is true, but I hare beard so) and desired turn,
to tell his toa so, that he might quit himself of
him ?
X. H. S. What say you, Mr. Whitby r
Whitby. My lords, about thtre or tour jean
ago my lord Aston that is dead (I heheVsr it
may be two years last April) sent for me to
dice with him ; and when I came thither, ha
told me, says he, Mr. Whitby I have sent to
you to acquaint you with a thing, but I do not
believe it before I tell it you. What is it? said f.
Said he, Stephen Dugdale hath acquainted me,
that you have employed persons upon the water
to destroy my water ; said I, my lord I never
endeavoured it. He said, he did believe ate.
Then I told my lord ; said I, Mr. Dugdale i» a
dishonour to the family, upon this account, be-
cause many times people come for money, and
he will not let them have it, but puts them off,
and makes them com pi ain . Says my lord, my son
is now at Standall, but 1 will tell him aa soon at
he comes home ; and if you will bring the per-
sons that have waited so long for their money
and made so many journies, you shall hear
what he will say to it. Within a while my lord
Aston that now is, came down, and I weut thi-
ther to see what became of it. And I went to
the Bowling-green where my lord and his toa
were ; but my old lord said nothing to me of k
nor his soa neither. Within a few days my old
lord Aston's gentleman came down romyhonse,
(one Mr. Ashley) said I, I wonder whether my
lord Aston hath acquainted his son with what
I told him. Says he, he hath, but it sipiisies
nothing ; for he will bear nothing against Mr.
Dugdate. This I speak upon my oath it is
true.
X. H. S. Your lordship sees what this gen-
tleman's opiuion was of Dugdale then, be woakJ
hear nothing against him. Will your lordship
conclude ?
L. Staff My lords, I am mighty unready,
and know not which way 10 turn myself upon
those new things they have brought ; for I knew
nothing of it, nor expected any such thing. But
will you be pleased that I may call Simon
Wright again ? (Who stood up.)
X. S. S. What would your lordship have
with him ?
L. Staff I have nothing, to say to bim, hot
to desire him to see this letter, whether it be of
his own writing or no.
X. H. S. Look upon that paper, shew it
him : (Which was done.)
X. H. S. Is it your' band?
Wright. This is my band. It is part of that
I was hired to do. There is another of a great
deal more consequence than that.
X. H. S. Deliver it in, and read it.
Clerk. " June the 14th, 1680. Sir, I can,
I bless Cod, with a safe conscience declare upon
1481] STATE TRIALS, 3ft Caailei IL Itta—Fat Popish Lords. t\4*2
my oath that Mr. Docdale hath been unkind
to me in taking hit opportunity of my poverty,
by a mason or a private meeting of ua two by
bis appointment, he did that time proffer if I
woald swear against you, and Mr. Gerard, he
would protect me as one of the king's evidence,
and I should not want money ; and in the hall
at WeatmiMter be said, if I did discover it
that day at Mrs. Price's Trial, he would set me
in the pillory. This I have owned to his face,
nnd shall not go back from this and more,
neither for fear nor favour. So I rest as you
shall find by jour Servant,
« Sm. Wright."
X. If. 8. Is this your hand?
• Wright, Yes, my lords ; this I was advised
word for word to write.
L. H. S. .Who penned this for you? DifJ you
pen it yourself?
• Wright. No, my lords, they peaned it, and
a great while I would not set my hand to
it; but Jermia Drayton said I need not tear, I
evas nut to swear against the king.
L.H.S. Who is that?
Wright. He is butler to Mr. Heveningham.
L. Staff, See what you have under his hand ;
I have no more to say to him.
Wright. But by their persuasion at last I
did write it, and a great deal more than that.
Sir W. Jones. I desire to ask Mr. Wright
•whether they would have had him swore this ?
L. if. S. Were you desired to swear this?
Wright. No, my lords, they never put me to
swear it ; for they told me I was not to swear
against the king : But if I would he so kind
to make an afidavit before a justice of peace, f
might tkoa go where I would into the country,
and I should have money to bear my charges.
Sir W. Jones. Who would have had you
•wear it before a justice of peace ?
Wright. Jermin Drayton, and Mr. Long-
snore ; where he is I cannot tell, but he told
aae that sir James Syraons was better able to
perform than Dugekde was to promise.
Serj. Maynatd. The same thing that was
done by Reading, he was convicted for it, and
stood in the pillory.
Sir W. Jones. We desire to know, whether be
was ever with sir James Symons himself, and
what be offered ?
Wright. I was once with him at the King's-
bench ; I dined there *. after I had written the
raper that was read, he gave me 20*. and said,
e hoped I would not go off from what I had
said ; and he hoped I was sensible his gratuity
would not be wanting, and was sorry he had
not occasion to use me.
- Sir W. Jenes. My lords, we have done with
him ; I only observe, that ray lord Stafford was
pleased to produce this paper ; he was master
of it, and bad had it in his keeping.
Sir F. Win. Wright says, there is another
paper of more consequence ; I wish his lord-
ship would produce that also.
L. Stiff. I did not know of this till just now
it was delivered into nay heads. Did you see
Mr. Longtnore before this letter was writ ?
1
Wright. Both before and after, to the best of
my remembrance, and at the time when sir
James's trial should have been, at the sign of
the Crown in King-street in Bloomsbury.
L. H. 8. My lord, will yon conclude ?
L. Staff. My lords, I desire your lordships
pardon ; I do not know how really to go about
it to-night. I will obey your commands, though
I fall down at the bar. I protest before God, I
was all night so ill of the cramp, that I had no
repose. If yon will hare me go on, I will, if
you will give me but a little 'time to recollect
myself.
L. H. S. God forbid, when your ionkhip
is to speak upon so groat a concern, and a
matter of that importance as this is to you, vou
should he put at the end of the day, and in the
midst of all your thoughts, to sum up your evi-
dence. I do believe, if you do desire time till
to-morrow, my lords will give it you : and if
you would have me move my lords in it, I will.
L. Stuff. One word, I beseech your* lord*
shipM—
Sir W. Jones. We do not oppose it.
L. Staff. My lords, I desire one thing ; I am
very ignorant in this matter, and do not un-
derstand it ; I would de*ire your lordships di-
rections to know in what method I mus»t pro-
ceed.
X. JET. »S. Your lordship is to proceed thus, if
you please : Your lordship is to recoil, ct and
recapitulate all the proofs you have ».ade ; and
you are to enforce them as well as you can, and
make such observations upon them as are for
your own advantage • and this your 1 H-rtehip
must do for the fact. If there remain a doubt
in law which you may have occaaitot to move,
couosel may he demanded; and if it be consi-
derable and worthy of debate, you may have
counsel heard to speak to it. But the process
is closed, no more witnesses are to be heard t
there remains only observations upon the fact
or law to be made.
L. Staff. Are no more witnesses, to be heard?
L. H. S. No, I think not: it is agreed oa
both sides all is done: But my lord, 1 would
not have your lordship to understand me so,
that if so be you h»ve yet any material evi-
dence, that you tbink it does concern you to
produce, and you have it ready to - morrow, be-
fore you sum up the evidence ; I believe then,
if you move my lorHs*, they will Urt it be heard :
Otherwise I think hen? * an end of witnesses.
L. Staff I desire the paper I gave in, may
be returned me.
L. H S. But in order to this, my lord, if
your hudship does think you shall use or pro-
duce jmy other witnesses, it would be of im-
portance that you would name them now.
L. Staff. Truly, my lords, I will go hunt for
none; and 1 think I alia II have none: only on«
thing I must beg your pardon in ; which is the
only thing I must have witnesses to,, to answer
what they have said, tnat my lord Aston would
not come to uccount. My witnesses are very
near me. Mr. Lieutenant, some jo the Tower,
and one Mr. Birch.
1183] STATE TRIADS, Si Charles {I. 16*0.— Proceedings agtmst the [14S4
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, bring those to-
morrow that you name to-night.
L. Staff. If you please that I may have that
paper, Wright's letter.
E. of Shafleib. My Lord Steward, I desire
that letter may be kept.
L. Staff, It is a paper that was given me,
and I would return it ; if you will not allow me
it, I cannot help it.
X. JET. S. It is desired it may remain where
it is : But yonr lordship may have a copy if you
please attested by the clerk. Is it your lord-
ships pleasure to adjourn ?
Lords. Ay, Ay. -
X. H. S. This House is adjourned into the
Parliament-Chamber.
[Then the Lords withdrew in their order, and
the Committee of Commons returned to their
House, where Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.]
A Message was sent from the Lords by sir
Timothy Baldwin and sir Samuel Clark :
Mr. Speaker; The Lords have sent us to ac-
quaint this House, That they have ordered
William viscount Stafford to be brought again
to his trial at the bar in Westminster-Hall, to-
morrow morning at ten of the dock*
•
The Fifth Dat.
Saturday, December 4, 1680.
About the hour of ten in the morning, the
Lords adjourned into Westminster-Hall, going
thither in their former order into the Court
there erected ; and Mr. Speaker having left the
chair, the Commons were seated as before.
The Court being sat, proclamation for silence
was made, and the lieutenant of the Tower
commanded to bring his prisoner to the bar;
which being done, the Lord High Steward be-
gan asfolloweth.
X. H. S. What says yonr lordship, my lord
Stafford ? My lords are prepared to bear what
your lordship can say in the summing up of
your defence!
L. Staff. My lords, I must needs say to your
lordships, That you have given me favour and
time all that I could demand. But I am a
very unfortunate man in many things, unfortu-
nate in being brought hither upon this account;
and truly, my lords, I am very unfortunate, that
I had not yesterday, before I went away, the
names of some very material witnesses, and
some that I did not know of, till within this
half quarter of an hoar : I humbly offer this to
your lordships consideration as the state of my
case. It is true, my lords, I acknowledge I was
bound up yesterday to Mr. LieotenanL and
some others that I named; but I humbly tell
your, lordship this, That I am informed of some
material witnesses more this morning.
X. H. S. Are the witnesses you speak of, any
of the witnesses you named last night ?
L. Staff. No> my lords; it is one of my lords,
a peer of this house.
X. H. S. How many more have you ?
L. Staff. Five or six.
X. H. 8. To what point?
L. Staff To discredit the witnesses that
have been brought against me ; both some of
those that have discredited mine, and some that
have sworn against me particularly.
X. H. S. There is no end of this way of pro-
ceeding.
L. Staff My lords, I profess to your lordships,
in the presence of God, I do it not for delay,
nor did I know of them then.
X. Hi S. What say you to it, gentlemen?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, I am afraid this pro*
ceedine at this rate will never have an end. If
his lordship have any witnesses to any material
part of his Defence, though he hath bound him-
self up, I should not be against bearing of them.
But if his new witnesses are only to the repu-
tation of our witnesses, then perhaps we roust
have some other witnesses brought to discredit
his ; and we not knowing who these new wit-
nesses of his would be, may oeed perhaps ano-
ther day to bring testimony against them, so
that I know not when the matter can have sa
end. Your lordships know, there is a role ia
the civil law, ' In testem, testes, et in bos, sed
( non datur ultra :' And I hope beyond that
you will not go. Truly, for my own part, I did
not expect any other witnesses, but those m
was pleased to name last night, in relation to
the matters of account ; if he please to call
them, we shall hear them : But for any other,
considering it would prolong the trial to ano-
ther day, and this cause hath had four days si-
ready for bearing, we hope they shall not be ad-
mitted.
L. Staff My lords, I profess to your lord-
ships, if X were alone concerned in it, I shoald
not hive moved it ; but when I consider far
wife and family are concerned, I hold myself
bound by the duty I owe to God and tbem, to
propose this to your lordships : I am pressed to
it by my wife just now, since the House cams
in. I protest before Gud, for myself, I csn
look death in the face without being afraid;
but when I consider in what condition I shall
leave my wife and family, it moves me. (Tbea
he wept.) I am not concerned at it for my ova
part, for I know I am innocent, but, I cannot
forbear tears when I consider tbem; it is not
for myself, I take God Almighty to witness,
that I weep ; I could be content to speak a lew
words to your lordships, and submit to yoar
judgment, and take my death, if you decree
me to it, and not defer it till Monday. Bat I
cannot forbear shewing my grief when I coo-
' sider my wife and children.
X. JET. S. Pray, gentlemen, consider, whether
it be not a saving of time, to let my lord eia-
mme his witnesses ; else my lords most with-
draw to consider of his desire. It is true, u)
the practice of Chancery we do examine to the
credit of witnesses, and to their credit, but no
further ; but what my lords will do in this case,
I know not till they are withdrawn.
Sir W. Janes. My lords, we have that opi-
nion of our own proofs, and are so desirous**
an end of these proceedings, tha.t rather «*a
1485] > STATE TRIAI& 32 Chakles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords. [1480
we will give your lordships the trouble to with-
draw, if my lord will please now to tell us the
number and names of bis witnesses, we shall
not oppose their being heard.
Sir F. Win. If your lordships please, one
word further : We know well of what concern
this is to my lord, and nobody desires to have
him cramped in his evidence. The objection
.did lie fair on our #Je, it looking like a design-
ed delay ; and yet w.e are willing to comply,
with this reservation, that if there should he
any such witnesses produced now, as may re-
quire an answer, that we may not be foreclosed
of advising with one another about it.
X. H. S. No, by no means. My lord Stafford,
jour desire is. consented to upon these terms,
That your lordship will now name the persous
and number of the witnesses you will rail.
Mr. Hampden, And the points to which you
will call them.
L. Staff. I humbly thank your lordships for
the favour, but it is an impossibility for rae to
do it ; If your lordships will give me a quarter
of an hour's time, I will name them; I cannot
name some of them ; one is my lord Ferrers,
smother is one Dr. Taylor, Dr. Watson, Dr.
Elliot, and one William Dale.
X. H. S. Now to what points will your lord-
ship call these witnesses ?
L. Staff. My lord Ferrers is to speak his
knowledge of Sou t hall the coroner, and that is
ms to Dugdale ; my lord knows that person.
Dr. Watson, and they are to invalidate the
testimony of Dr. Oates ; And there is another
man's name, I forget what it is.
Sir W. Jones. To what point is he to be a
witness ?
L. Staff. It is to Dr. Oates, and the evidence
Against me. '
Serj. Maynard. So there will be pretences
made every moment of some new witness to
pot off this cause.
L. Staff. Under your lordship's favour, I
scorn to make any delay. If you think this
may not be material, or not fit to be done, I will
quit it
X. H. 8. Go on, my lord.
L. Staff. Will your lordships be pleased to
begin with my lord Ferrers? [Who stood up in
his place.]
L, E. S. My lord Ferrers, your lordship is
called upon by my lord Stafford, and you being
a witness for the prisoner, and against the king,
your lordship is* not to be sworn.
Lord Ferrers. My lords, what I have to say
concerning that person my lord. named, SouthT
all, is only upon hearsay, and upon the reputa-
tion he hath in the country ; for I have no ac-
quaintance with him, nor do know him at all :
But the reputation that bath been given me of
him in the country is, That he hath been a
very active man in the late times against the
king, and is counted to be a very pernicious
man against the government.
L. Staff. Call Dr. Taylor.
Servant. 1 know not where be is, he can't be
found at present.
L. Staff. Then call William Dale in the
mean time. My lords, this same Sou t hall I
never heard of; the other man that drew up
the Affidavit, that is Feake, I know ; he was
named by So ut hall to join with hjm in the
examination ; I can't tell what he was, I can
prove that he is an attorney, that he was
mayor of Stafford, and proclaimed the king
Traitor.
X. H. S. Who was that ?
L. Staff. One that drew up the Affidavit of
Dugdale, Feake mentioned by South ail.
L. H. S. Who is your next witness, my
lord?
L. Staff. _ One William Dale. [Who being
called, appeared.]
X. H. S. What is your name ?
Witness. William Dale.
L. H. S. What do you say ?
L. Staff. About Dugdale, my lords, what
he knows about his offering him any money.
Sir W. Jones. We desire to know where he
lives.
Dale. Dugdale never offered me any money,
X. H. S. Where do you live ?
Dale. At Owseley-bridge.
L. Staff'. Pray ask him whether Dugdale
persuaded him to swear agaiust my lord Aston
something he knew not.
X. H. S. Did Dugdale ever hire you to swear
against my lord Aston ?
Dak. No, he never hired me.
X. H. S. Do you know that he ever hired
any body else to swear false ?
Dale. I dp not, my lords.
L. Staff. My lords, I most humbly thank
your lordships tor your favour in giving me the
liberty of examining these other witnesses ; I
shall trouble you no further, nor give no more
evidence; only one witness* my lords, I shall
trouble you no further, and that is Mr. Lieute-
nant of the Tower, to this point, whether my
lord Aston did refute to come to account with
Dugdale.
X. H. $. Come, Mr. Lieutenant, do you
kuow any thing about accounts between my
lord Aston and Mr. Dugdale?
Lieutenant. My lords, last summer was
twelve-month Dugdale came to the Tower, but
my lord Aston would not speak with him, un-
less I were by ; so they brought him to my
lodging, and he shewed me the books of ac-
counts : I told them I did not understand ac-
counts, hut if they would have me be by, I
would get somebody to be present that did, and
have them adjusted. Mr. Dugdale said he
would come another time, but from that time
to- this I never heard of him.
L. Stuff. My. Lords, I shall not trouble you
with any more witnesses. My lords, I have
now done my evidence. I shall, as well as my
weak memory and old age will give me leave,
sum it up, something (as well as I can) of the
evidence given against me, and for me. Truly,
my lords, I am able to do it very imperfectly
for want of understanding, and truly for want
of sleep ; but I do not doubt, but that according;
1437] STATE TRIALS $2 CiiaAles II. 10SO:— Procicdmgt agam* fit* [IMS
to tlie law, as I am informed it is, since I can
have bo comisel in matter of fact, or to advise
nc m an? thiag of that nature, jet I am also
inforrard by the law, your lordships who are
my judges, are my counsel. And I do not
doubt but your lortKhips, when you take it into
Consideration, t»ilt supply any defects which' I
sh*ll cons mi t, which I believe will be many. I
shall spei.d your lordship's time as little as I
can ; though these gentlemen of the House of
Commons believe I desire to protract it, yet I
profess before God I do not. And I declare
before them all, and your lordships, I am so
satisfied of my own inuocency, that I would
never beg a moment's time of delay ; and I
know your lordships will take care of the life
* of the meanest subject : and though I have bad
the honour to sit among yoar lordships as a
peer, ut I ask not for your favour, but with
ye»ur justice too : I shall therefore sum up my
dtieiice as well as I can. For tbe first witness,
DugdaJe, he swore I was at a consult at TiiaU
in the end of August or the beginning of Sep-
tember; I have Miracicntly proved that in all
August I was not there, nor till the 12th of
September. I have proved that his first oath
was, 1 wa& there in August, and a man that
will swear false in one thing is not to be cre-
dited in any. I have made it appear to your
lordships, that upon the £Orh of September
when he *ay«» he was in my chamber, and I sent
the page to cull him, that that is false; it was
only he desired he might come to me to get
leave that he might go to the race, my lord
Aston being angry with him for it. This I con-
ceive is proved sufficiently by two witnesses,
my man and my boy, and this I think I have
proved as positively as can be done. My lords,
it is (rue, it is objected against me, that I had
•aid D update was never seen alone with me in
my life, it is true ; and it is true Ansell swears
he brought a footman to me, but he swears it
W4» in tbe morning, when it was at supper,
and does not say that he was alone with me.
My lords, Dugdale swore that he told Mr. Phi-
lips and Mr. Somhidge of the death of sir Ed-
mund bury Godfrey on the Monday, some swore
he said it was on the Tuesday, but they deny
that ever he told it them ; and so he is forsworn
in that. And, my lords, whether he be a man
•f any great credit, I think I have proved
enough to your lordships. It is proved by two
witnesses, Holt and Morral, that he offered
them money to swear, as likewise he did to
another, one Robinson ; whom I do believe, by
the information that was given of him, to be a
wicked ill man, and not to be credited ; but be-
ing so, my lords, he was the fitter for Dugdale's
turn. And yet he had so much conscience,
though be was a poor and needy fellow, he
would not swear a man's life away for money.
The other two are without exception, the one
•bay say is an idle follow, and the other a man
but of an indifferent reputation ; how far that
would move with your lordships, I submit it to
you. I suppose it is also clear by my wit-
that DvgdeLe is wrnuu of no reputation,
having forsworn himself in several pefticukrt; •
and 1 submit the credit of ail he says to year
lordships upon that.
The next witness* my lords, it Mr. Oates,
whether he be a doctor or no, I know it net,
he would not own k here; he, my lords, swears
that he saw a cosaoissioo deuvered to me te
be paymaster of an army to be raised, God
knows when, I never beard* when, or where, 1
suppose it was in the clouds, for 1 never knew
where else. Mr. Oates all along before swore
only that be believed 1 was in tbe Plot, now he
swears that I was in it, at Mr. Feueick'f
chamber, a man I never saw in my Bfe, nor
beard of till this discovery. And that he saw
letters subscribed by my name ; but that, aw
lords, I conceive is no evidence at aH, for hi
never saw me write, nor dees know my hand,
nor crocs he pretend to know me then : asd
when he bad told your lordships he had a letter
of mine, he pretended to look for it, and then
said he had lost it, that is, never bad it Bat
besides, my lords, his evidence now does net
agree with his former : for I do appeal te your
lordships that were in the House thee, that
he swore the first time, he only saw my name
to letters; afterwards he swore (that at sorae
days after he had ended all hir evidence, end
knew no more than he had pur down then,
afterwards he remembers what lie knew not
before! and swears) a commission ke sew deli-
vered to me : so bis memory encreases* at he*
hath time to invent^ and perhaps by another
time it might be much more. But, my lords, I
think that one particular, his swearing before
your lordships, ae it is entered in jour Journal,
that he had no more to say against any body,
and afterwards naming tbe queen, and now to
'me to have a commission, I conceive, is perfect
perjury. My lords, Mr. Oates told your lord-
ships, that he had never been a Papist in bis
heart, but ever feigned it ; truly my lords, I
cannot possibly give over that point, that a
man that feigns himself to be a Papist, or any
thing that in the opinion of Protest ants is se
wicked a thing as tnat, is fit to be believed, if
he shall not heartily repent himself, and own it
to God and man wan ill thing to dissemble so.
But yesterday he with a smiling countenance,
and as it were with a derision, owns that which
must be a- very great offence to God Alnugtity,
to pretend' to be 6f an idolatrous church, i
appeal to your lordships whether be be a fit
witness, I conceive he cannot be thought a
Christian*, nor to believe in God. I knew many
wicked and infamous persons have done many
wicked things, and yet have been witnesses;
but never did any wicked man own a wicked
thing, that lie might have concealed, with
boasting of it, that ever was credited in any
tiling-: for if he had' said I' do acknow-
ledge I did dissemble with God and my own
conscience, but I ask God forgiveness* it was
for a good end, and a good intention, it hata>
been something, (though that could not have
atoned for se ill a thinly bat shewing no re*
pentance, but rather an impudent aflkontfaigof
3
14S9]
STATE TRULS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords. [MOO
God Almighty, I think be is not a fit witness, I
appeal to your lordships' and the whole Chris-
tian world if he be. I cannot believe your lord-
ships will condemn me for an opinion which I
will go to my death with, and it stands upon
me so to do.
The last witness, ray lords, is Turbervile, and
he says, in the year 1675 he often discoursed
alone with me for a fortnight together at Paris.
My servants he owns he never saw them, and
how he could come fur a fortnight together,
and not see my servants, I refer it to your lord-
ships* consideration whether it be possible.
For I will tell your lordships, when I had been
a few days at Paris, my landlord came one day
to me and said, You do not do well to surfer
any body to come to you without your man he
by ; for there carme yesterday a Frenchman to
speak with you, and I do not know him, and
he went up strait to your chamber without any
body with him ; it is a dangerous thing, said he,
for I know thbt Frenchmen and people have
come up, and been alone with persons, and
put a pistol to them and made ihem deliver
their money for fear of their lives; therefore,
pray, said he, do it no more. From that time,
which was a few days after I came to Paris, the
latter end of October or the beginning of No-
vember, no Christian soul was permitted to
come to me without my servants; how then
could he come to me for a fortnight together,
and none of my servants see him ? My lords,
this gentleman very civilly the next day after
he had marie an affidavit against me, would
needs mend it ; and sir William Poulreny did
acknowledge that he made an affidavit one day,
that he came to my lord Powis's in the year
1673, and the next day amended it to 1672.
Now I humbly conceive, my lords, a man that
swears one thing to-day, which he forswears to*
morrow, is not to be believed: and the truth
of it is, as his brothers prove to your lordships,
he came to my lord Powis's in the year 1671,
and so he forswears himself in every thing, and
is in no wise to be believed. He swears to
your lordships I writ a letter to him to acquaint
him that I would go by Calais, and not by
Diep; but I have proved I went by Diep, and
I assure your lordships I have not been at Ca-
lais, I think, these \k or 14 years. I conceive
these things are very manifest and clear proofs
against him that he hath not swore one true
word. He swears that my lord Powis, my lady
Powis, and his friends, persuaded him to go to
Doway to be a frier, but not liking it, he came
over again, and was in danger of his life by
them ; but the evidence is sufficiently strong in
proof that he afterwards was at my lord Powis's
and was well received, that he lay in the house,
and was not in the least injured by them. And
for his other relations, his brother proves he
was not ill used by them. They gave nim seven
pound to be gone, and trouble them no more.
He says, I said he was a coward ; and I will
tell you why I said so, because a captain, that
is now out of England, told his sister so, who
told me so; but that is not very material. My
VOL. VII,
lords, there is one witness more, John Porter,'
that swears to your lordships this one thing.
That this Tarbervile swore to him at such an
ale-house, he knew nothing of the Plot And
then, my lord's, there is Mr. Yalden, and he is
a gentleman of reputation, he said in his com-
pany, there was no trade good but that of a
discoverer; God damn the duke of York, Mon-
mouth, Plot and all, for I know nothing of it.
Truly, my lords, whether be «yot money by it or
no, is known since he hath been a discoverer,
telling what he knew not so many months ago;
and therefore I submit it to your lordships
what he is.
My lords, thesepeople that swear against me,
there is not one of them a person of any qua*
lity or condition ; and whether they have not
rather sworn for money than tfie truth, by things
that are known, and need no proof, 1 shall ob-
serve when I come to it to argue that point in
law, whether a man that swears for gain is a
credible witness, or no ?
My lords, I have, as well as I con, summed
up that little evidence that was given against
me : I cannot do it better in so short a-time ;
for indeed I had but a very short time last
night, and I have not slept ; I had the cramp
so much in extremity, that my nett neighbour
heard me roaring out. My lords, I submit my-
self to your 'lordships, and doubt not but thnt
the matters charged upon me will appear to your
lordships sufficiently answered. And I be*
seech your lordships well to consider that one
thing against Dr. Oates, his dissembling with
God Almighty, and his impudent owning of it.
This T do insist upon ; and I protest before
God Almighty, If I were a judge, I would not
hang a dog Upon such evidence. My lords, I
have many points in law to offer to your lord-
ships, and when you please I should do it, I
will name them to you.
L. H. S. Name them, my lord ; if you have
any doubts in law, propound them.
Lord Lovelace. Mv lords, I would not in-
terrupt my lord, but I think indeed it is no in-
terruption, since his lordship broke off, and
was going on to another point. But I think I
see one of the impudentest things that ever was
done in a court of justice ; whilst we are
trying a person here for a popish plot, I do see
a protest papist standing in the body of jour
House, and that is sir Barnard GascOlgne.
(Who thereupon went out of the court.)
L. Staff. My lords, I do conceive I have
cleared myself to your lordships of what I am
accused of. My lords, the course of my whole
life hath been otherwise ; I defy any creature m
the world to say, that I ever use*d one disobe-
dient or disloyal word of the king, or did any
such act. I waited on the king that now is, in
the unhappy war that is passed, when I was in
a low condition enough as to fortune, and my
wife and family were thereby reduced to great
straits, for my wife and children lived some five
or six years upon some pl^e and jewels that
we had ; whereas if I woJld have c6me, and
been at London, and jofted with that party, I
5C
1491] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chakles IL 1680.— Proceeding again* d* [WW
could have saved my estate, and lived quietly
as others did. But my conscience told me, I
ought to wait upop the king, and offer him my
personal sefvice, when I could do him no
other. I have shown now the witnesses have
forsworn themselves ; I shall now, if your lord-
ships please, desire your opinion in some
points of law. And though perhaps I may
name to your lordships many things that are
impertinent, or not to the purpose, I beg your
lordships pardon, it is out of the weakness of
mv understanding ; and I hope you will not
think ill, neither your lordships nor the House
of Commons, if I should, through ignorance,
move things impertinent. The first point of
law is this :
First, I conceive there is no example or pre-
cedent for it, that proceedings criminal ever
did continue from parliament to parliament,
and this is continued to three.
X. U. S. Speak out, my lord, and go on«
L. Staff. Secondly, my lords, I do not ques-
tion the power of the House of Commons in
the least ; but, my lords, I know they impeach
when they find grounds for it without dispute :
But I question whether any man, by the known
laws of this kingdom, in capital cases, can be
proceeded on, but by indictment first found by
the Grand Jury, and not by impeachment by
any person, or other body of men.
JL. H. S. Say on, my lord.
L. Staff. Thirdly, my lords, I conceive there
are many defects in the indictment or the im-
peachment, (indictment there is none.) There
is no overt-act alledged in the indictment or im-
peachment, I know not well what it is called.
And, my lords, by the act of parliament in 1
H. 4. c. 10, nothing from thenceforth is to be
treason, but according to the statute of 25 Ed.
3. which includes tin overt-act.
Fourthly, My lords, I desire that I may prove
that by law- they are not competent witnesses,
for they swear for money. But, my lords, I
forgot one thing to say to your lordships as to
the evidence, that these gentlemen did endea-
vour to prove (I do not speak whether they did
or not) a general plot of the papists ; whether
they did or oot, I am not concerned in it, for
I say, tbey have not proved me a papist, which
1 submit to your lordships; and though any
nan may know me so in his private knowledge,
yet they having not given any proof of it, it is
not to affect me»
Fifthly, There is one point of law more,
That no man can be condemned for treason, as
I conceive, by one witness ; and there are not
two witnesses to any one point. These are the
points of Islu ; I humbly beg your lordships
pardon for the trouble, and desire your opinion
in them.
Sir W. Jonts. My lords,- before we make an-
swer to what ray lord hath said, I do humbly
desire, That for the objection which he hatb
made against Mi, Southail, proved by a noble
lord of this House (though I must observe it
was not of his own knowledge, hut by hearsay,
mod that matter of hearsay contrary to (he act
of oblivion) to the end there may be no doubt
remain of Mr. Southall's credit, that a noble
lord of this House, and a gentleman of the
House of Commons (who both know Mr.
Southail) may be heard to bis reputation.
Sir F. Winnington. Lord Ferrers knew him
not himself, but my lord Brook and Mr. Gowcr
will give a better account of him.
(The lord Brook was sworn.)
Lord Brook. My lord, what I have to say
concerning this Mr. Southail is, That he bail
been often employed both by my brother sad
mv mother ; and they have so good an opinio*
of him that they employ bioi still ; sod
therefore we take him for an honest man, sad
an able man, or he would not be so much
trusted and employed : And I take lum to be
a very good churchman ; for if he was not, I
would not employ him.
X. If. S. An honest man, an able, and a
good churchman, your lordship says ? .
Lord Brook. He receives the sacrament four
times a year.
Sir W. Jones. Then swear Mr. William
Leveson Gower, a member of the House of
Commons ; (which was done in his place.)
Mr. L. Gower. My Lords, I have been near
seven years of Staffordshire, but did not know
Mr. Southail till this popish plot was discovered
After that I came acquainted with him (beings
justice of the peace in that county) in court,
where I found him to be the most zealous pro*
secutor of the papists in that country, do man
like him. I likewise found several popish
priests had by his means been apprehended and
imprisoned, and one of them since convicted,
who by the way still remains unexecuted in
Stafford gaol. What opinion some may hare
heard or had of him formerly, I cannot tell;
but this I know, that he hath more lhao once
come to desire my assistance, that be migta
prosecute the papists the most effectual way
upon the statutes made for that purpose, and
that he did complain to me that he had not met
with good usage elsewhere. Mv lords, I take
opinion to be grounded upon principles; aod I
do observe that those of this country who de
believe this popish plot,' and know Air. Sooth-
all, and are principled for the preservation of
the king, the protestant religion, and the go-
vernment, do at this timer speak well of bim,
and those who are not so principled spesk
otherwise. My lords, I was surprised when I
heard my name mentioned upon this occasion:
I have told your lordships all the matter of fact
that upon the sudden occurs to me, (with nj
own opinion, which I offer with all submission ;)
and had I had notice, I might possibly bare
recollected more, which I would free!/ h»w
'declared to your lordships, but this is all uVat
I can now say.
L. Staff My lords, if your lordships please,
I would say one word, if you will give me leave;
I am very ignorant, and be? your lordship!
pardon for troubling of you*. I humbly desira
to know, whether after the points of law an
1493] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords.
[1494
argued, I may speak something, not concern-
ing the evidence of the plot, tut concerning
myself.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, we shall hot op-
pose the saying any thing he can for him-
self; but we must conclude, and have the last
word.
L. H. S. My lord, the gentlemen that are
for the House of Commons must conclude.
My lords will give you ail the favour they can,
but they must have the last word.
L. Staff. I do not oppose it.
JL H. S. Therefore vou will do well to say
all you have to say together. For the points of
law, my lords will give no judgment till the
Commons have answered them, and they I sup-
pose will first sum up the whole proofs; then
you may say what you have to say, for they
must make an end. Gentlemen, will you speak
first to the law ?
Sir W. Jones. No, my lords, first to the fact.
L. H. S. Go on then.
Then Sir William Jones, one of the commit-
tee appointed to manage the evidence, began
to sum up the same as followeth:
May it please your lordships ; We have now
done our evidence as to Matter of Fact ; and
that which I have in charge at this time, is to
remind your lordships of our Proofs; to answer
the objections that have been made against
them ; and to make some observations upon
the whole.
My lords, The members of the House. of
Commons that were appointed for the service
of the management of this trial, those of them
I mean who began the first day, made a divi-
sion of our evidence into two parts; the one
that which concerned the plot in general, and
the other what related to this lord in parti-
cular.
My lords, as to the Plot in general, we did
call six witnesses; I know some of your lord-
ships have taken notes, and you have their
names: They were Smith, Dugdale, Prance,
Oates, Dennis,1 and Jeoison.
My lords, because I will save as much of
your time as I can, I will not take upon me to
repeat what each witness said as to the plot in
general; but when I come to the evidence
which immediately concerns my lord, I must
beg your favour that I may be more particular.
I will say thus much for the proofs of the plot
in general, that there was by those witnesses
so much fully proved, that made it most ap-
parent that there was a general. design amongst
the Roman catholics to introduce their false re-
ligion into this kingdom, that the Jesuits had
several meetings to that end, that they endea-
voured to do it by several ways, by raising of
arms, by collecting of monies, and by design-
ing against the king's life; nay, they had so far
advanced their designs, and were in so much
readiness, as they thought it time to appoint
officers not only for their army, but lor the
civil government, as if "the work were already
Accomplished.
Your lordships were told by one or < the wit-
nesses of a Lord-Chancellor, and of a Lord-
Treasurer, (lords now in the Tower yet to be
tried ;) and you were told also of officers for
the military part, a general, a lieutenant-gene-
ral, and this lord at the bar to be paymaster of
the army.
I shall, my Lords, desire to take notice to
your lordships, that this design, though it was to
be finally acted by other hands, yet it was first
contrived, and afterwards carried on by the
Priests and Jesuits. You will find them pre-
paring for it, by making sermons to justify that
doctrine (which I confess this noble lord denies)
of the lawfulness of killing kings. You will
find the priests and Jesuits, in their discourses
as well as sermons, urging and encouraging their
disciples and votaries, to go on with their de-
sign of killing our king, and giving that common
reason for it, that he was a heretic, and it were
meritorious to take him out of the way.
My lords, I take notice of these particulars
in the general plot, because it may give great
light to, and add much to the confirmation
of the particular evidence. And my Lords, (I
think) I may take leave to say that the plot in
general hath been now sufficiently proved. And
if we consider what hath been proved at for-
mer trials (upon which many of the offenders
and traitors have been executed) what hath
been published in print ; and above all Cole-
man's letters, written with bis own hand, and
for that reason impossible to be falsified ; we
may justly conclude, that there is not a man
in England, of any understanding, but must be
fully convinced of the truth of the Plot in ge-
neral.. I shall spare to mention the resolutions
and declarations of two parliaments, and of
both Houses in those two parliaments, without
(as I remember) one dissenting voice, expressing
their full satisfaction of the reality of the Plots
so that 1 think now none remain that do pre-
tend not to believe it, but two sorts of persons;
the one, those that were conspirators in it; and
the other, those that wished it had succeeded,
and desire it may so still.
But, my lords, I will be the shorter on this
-part; for perjiaps.it will be objected, you have
offered a fair proof of a general Plot, here are
records, votes of both houses, papers and evi-
dences printed, and witnesses viva voce to prove
it ; but what is all this to my lord Stafford }
My lords, it goes a great way to him; I do not
say to be a convincing evidence, but to make
the particular evidence against bim highly ere*
dible.
Your lordships cannot imagine, that there are
such a store of lords and great men amongst
that party (though there be too many) that they
should have great choice for great offices. Your
lordships hear how the other great offices were
disposed of, and truly I think the merit of this
lord amongst that party might very well entitle
him to an office as great as this of Treasurer of
War, or Pay-master to the Army. But what is
the evidence of the general Plot (may some
still say) to my lord Stafford i What do you
H95] STATE TRIALS, S2 Charles II. 1680.— Proccedmg$ against the [1406
mention the raising an army ? What do you
meiKioii the collecting of money ? What do you
mention the providing of arms for? Yes, my
lords, they are very useful, for they give a fair
introduction to prove against tins lord, that he
was* to have this office. If it be proved by other
witnesses than those who swore directly against
this lord, that there were arms provided, that
there was an army to be raised, and the rest;
it proves at least, that there was occasion for
such an officer as the \ particular witness
proves my lord to be.
My lords, for the other matter that relates
to the consultations of the Priests and Jesuits
and their sermons and discourses. I desire vour
lordships to observe that also ; which if you do
your lordships will easily perceive what a great
influence even that matter hath upon the par-
ticular evidence, and bow credible it renders
the testimony of the particular witnesses. Your
lordships will find, when my lord was at Tixall
(as Dugdale gives you an account) there was
Evers the Jesuit, and other priests still at my
lord's elbow, and egging him onto this business.
Your lordships will find where Gates speaks of
him, it is at Fen wick's chamber, who was a Jesuit,
giving him ghostly counsel. Your lordships
will find, that at Paris where Mr. Tubervile
Speaks of him, tl*ere were Father Sherborne,
Father NeUon, and Father Anthony Turbervile.
Still the priests are about my lord ; and when
my lord is among them, or but newly come from
them, then he utters the treason of killing the
king. And doubtless this traiterous purpose
of his did arise from their counsels*: so that
though our witnesses speak of my lord's dis-
courses at several limes about killing the king,
yet they make them flow from one and the
same fountain, the instigation of the Priests
and Jesuits.
But now, my lords, to come to the particular
evidence, I think I may say, if ever evidence
was convincing, this is so. We have brought
three witnesses which speak each of them that
which is sufficient to prove my lord guilty ; and
they speak of overt-acts too, as I shall observe
anon.
His lordship was pleased at the beginning
of our evidence to desire that the witnesses
mij^ht look him in the face ; and for that he
cited two sta rotes, I suppose he intended the
statutes of 1 and 5 ofEdw. VI. which statutes,
or at least one of them, do say, that there shall
t>e in case of High -Treason, two witnesses to
accuse, and those two witnesses brought face to
face at the time of Trial: and my lord .hath
had the benefit of those laws; he bath had two,
nay three witiiesses to prove him guilty, brought
face to face before your lordships ; and if these,
three, or any two of them deserve to be cre-
dited, mv lord 'in this case is guilty of High-
Treason. My lords, I must beg the favour of
looking upon my paper of notes ; for the truth
is, the witnesses are so many, and the proceed-
ing hath held so long, that is impossible for
my weak memory to retain all that was said.
. HI] lords, the first witness we began withal
was Dugdale *; and I know your lordships did
take notice what he swore : but it will be raj
duty t3 remind your lordships, that he tells yos,
That he had heard of a general design of mak-
ing preparations to be ready against the king's
death, and this for several years past. But as
to the mutter of hastening the death of the king,
that was but a )a:e counsel. He tells you, I
think, that about the latter end of August, or
the beginning of September, 1678, Ever* and
other Jesuits, we re at Tixall, that there was a
consult then about the king's death ; and that
(by the means of Evers, who was a very $r«at
man among them, but since fled, and is men-
tioned in the impeachment) he was admitted to
that consult, and heard particularly whateiery
man said ; and he does take upon him to say,
That at that time the matter of taking away
the king's life was propounded, and that my
lord, the prisoner at the bar, did consent to it.
My lords, he tells you further, That opon a
Sunday -morning my lord came from Stafford
to Tixall to mass : My lord was pleased to ob-
serve, that we do not prove him a Papist; but
we prove my lord came to mass, and that, 1
think, is one good proof of his being a Papist. Be-
sides Dugdale swears my lord did then complain,
That they had not the free exercise of their re-
ligion ; that they could not say their prayers
openly : What were they ? Not the prayers of
Protestants, not those contained in the liturgy
of our church. He could not complain of aor
restraint as to them; but complain be did,
that they had not the free exercise of their re-
ligion ; but he did hope, if things succeeded
well, in a short time it would be otherwise*
This is particularly sworn by Dugdale.
My lords, his lordship was very moch w>
satisfied, that Dugdale was not particular is
poirt of time ; be did talk of some matters to
be in August or September, but could uotfix
to any day. But your lordships will remember,
that as to one particular, and which mainly
concerns his lordship to answer, he comes to*
day, or within a day ; for he swears positively,
That upon the 20th or £lst of September be
was sent for to my lord's chamber, the servant!
were put out ; that there my lord did propoM
to him, in express terms, the matter of killing
of the king : He would have him be an actor
in it, and he offered him a reward of 500l to
perform it. For this, which is the most mate-
rial part of his particular evidence against my
lord, he is certain it was either on the 20tb or
21st of September ; and he tells your lordshipj
how he comes to remember the time, by a good
token, by the foot race that was then io be
run ; nnd I do not perceive that my lord does
deny, but rather acknowledge that Dugdale *»
in his chamber at that time. It » *rue ke doej
deny some other circumstances which I so™
answer anon. And here I do think Dugdart
undertakes to swear to that which will amosnt
* See some proceedings respecting his cha-
racter, in the Commons* Journal, April l#i
1679.
1497]
STATE TRIALS, $2 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords.
[1498
to an overt- act, and a damnable one too, that I
is the offering 500/. to kill the king.
But Dugdale (it seeins) was not wiJling to
depend upon the promises of my lord for so
much money, his lordship had not that credit
with him ; he repairs to Ever*, and desires to
be satisfied from him, whether lie might rely
upon my lord for so much money ? Evert told
him he might be sure to have the money ; and
that there was euough in Harcourt's and other
mens' hands for the carrying on that blessed
design ; and that he should have it thence. I
might, my lords, remember to your lordships,
how Dugdale does particularly swear concern-
ing another discourse he had afterwards with
my lord ; That my lord complained of the great
Josses that had been sustained by him and his
friends for the king; how, in particular, my
lord Aston's father had lost 30,000/. and what
resentments my lord had of it. He said, That
places of profit were rather bestowed upon
those that deserted the king, and were rebels
and traitors, than en those that did him faith-
ful service : And what does be conclude from
thence ? he is very angry with the king, and
does say, tbat next to the cause of religion
(which was the strongest motive with him to
take away the king's life) the king's ingratitude
to his loyal subjects, was that which did most
oftend him.
I shall not trouble your lordships with other
particular matters which were to serve as en-
couragements to the design ; as that there was
to be a pardon from the Pope ; That mv lord
did write a letter to Evers, which was shewn to
Dugdale, wherein he says, That things did
succeed very well abroad, and he hoped they
would do so at home. I shall only observe,
that Dugd ale's evidence, as to my lord's damn-
able design of killing the king, is positive and
full. And if this be to be believed (as I hope
we shall shew there is no reason but it should
be) then here surely is one sufficient witness to
prove my lord guilty of the highest treason.
My lords, the next witness we call for against
my lord, was Dr. Oates ; and I think Or. Gates
is not only positive, but he is positive in that
which most certainly will amount to an overt-
act ; nay, I think to more overt-acts than one.
The doctor tells your lordships, That having
been at St. Omers and in Spain, he saw seve-
ral letters that were subscribed Stafford; he
did oot then know my lord's hand, but be saw
the letters, and he tells you the effect of those
letters. And I remember in one of them there
u thu expression, That my lord (the prisoner
*t the bar) does give assurance to the Fathers,
that he is very zealous and ready to do them
service.
Dr. Oates tells you, my lords, That after-
wards coming into England, my lord Stafford
did write a letter, I think it was to his son ;
hut sure I am, the Doctor said, he had the car-
riage of it to the post-house ; That he saw mv
iord write it ; he read the superscription, and
he swears, that the hand which writ that let-
ter, was the hand which subscribed to ail the
former. And so then joining the one to the
other, it amounts to as good an evidence as if
be had known my lord's hand from the be-
ginning.
But that which comes home to my lord, is
that which Dr. Oates saw, and that which Dr.
Oates heard : and tliey are these particulars
which I now mention.
First, he saw a commission directed to my
lord to be paymaster of the army, he saw it de-
livered to my lord's own hand, and my lord ac-
cepted it. Dr. Oates read the commission, and
he tells you by whom it was signed, Johannes
Faulus Oliva, a person substituted by the Pope
to issue out commissions. lie tells you the
contents of it, and of this he swears he was an
ocular witness.
lie tells yon of another matter he heard my
lord say, as considerable as the other, That
when my lord bad received the commission, my
lord declared, that he was to go down into
Staffordshire and Lancashire, where he was to
put things in readiness. What were those
things ?• He had now a commission, by virtue
of which, in Lancashire and the other places,
he was to prepare and gather monies for that
army which he was to pny. So much Dr.
Oates doth swear be beard from my lord's own
mouth.
But there is one thing further, which I had
almost forgot. He doth swear, that my lord
was privy to, and approved of, the matter of
killing the king ; for he doth swear be did bear
my lord say at that time, * He hoped before
' he returned, honest William ' (who was Grove
that was executed for this attempt) ' would
* have done the business.9 And what that busi-
ness was, every man who hath heard of Grove's
treason, must needs understand.
There is but one thing more that I remembet
of Dr. Oates's testimony. Your lordships that
have a better advantage to write than we, who
are crowded together, may have taken notes of
more ; but this one thing I do observe : Dr.
Oates doth' expressly swear, That my lord bote
a very ill mind towards his majesty ; for my
lord did, in his hearing, complain, * That the
' king had deceived thenars great while, and
' that they would bear with him no longer, he
' should deceive them no more.7
My lords, our third witness was Mr. Turber-
vile, who doth give you an account, Tbat he
being first sent to Doway, and intended to be
entered there in one of the societies, (he was
sent by my lord Powis and my lady Powis, and
some of his relations of that religion, for that
purpose) he did not like the company, he wM
not pleased with the exercises of tbat religion,
and that with much difficulty he escaped thence
and came for England. But finding he was
not well looked upon here, nor well received
by his relations, he went over to France : That
being at Paris, he came into the company of
the three Fathers I named before, Father Sher-
borne, Father Nelson, and Father Turhemle ;
the last whereof, he tells you, was his own
brother : That by the means of thtse priests he
1499] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16S0.— Proceeding* against the [1500
was brought acquainted with my lord Stafford ;
apd doubtless they were abJo to make him in-
timately acquainted with ray lord. Audit did
prove so, for he tells you, after some time, that
in a lower room of my lord's lodging, my lord
proposed to him the business of killing the king.
That he did not at all like it. was very unwiil-
ing to undertake ir, but my lord bid him con-
sider of it, and that he should give him his an-
. swer at Diep, having enjoined him secrecy ; but
my lord after sent him word he would go by
Calais : and the witness afterwards went into
England, and from thence into the French
army. And this is the substance of what Tur-
bervile deposetb.
And, my lords, I think it will not be doubted
by any man that will consider these three- mens
testimonies, but that here are two witnesses, if
not more, to prove my lord guilty of treason.
But my lord has been pleased against them
to make several objeetions ; some have been
by witnesses which he hatb produced to en-
counter the proofs that we have offered ; and
some of them have been by observations that
be hath made upon what hath been said by
our witnesses and his. I will keep to order as
much as I can, and not confound the order and
method of his defence.
The witnesses he first brought were against
Dugdale, and of tbem his lordship was pleased
to begin with his daughter, the lady Marchio-
ness of Winchester, and hid niece Mrs. How-
ard. Your lordships, I presume, are pleased
to observe what they were called to. They did
testify that being at Wakeman's trial, they did
hear Dugdale swear (says my lady marchioness
of Winchester) that my lord Stafford was to
come down into Staffordshire in June or July,
and Mr. Dugdale was the n to receive orders
from my lord ; and he swore (as she was pleased
to say) that there was a consult in August at
Tixall, and ray lord Stafford was there present.
Mrs. Howard (for I But them together) was
pleased to say that she was present at tfiat
trial, and there Dugdale swore that my lord
Stafford did come down in June or July, and
that my lord was at the consult in August.
My lords, I will not make objections neither
to the religion of these ladies, nor to their re-
lation to my lord, though those be matters that
are to be considered. But that which I shall
observe to your lordships, is this, that they do
not agree one with another : For my lady Win-
chester says Dugdale did swear that my lord
was to come down in June or July, and Mrs.
Howard says, that he swore he did come down
then. Now there is a great difference betwixt
swearing an intention that a man was to come
down, and swearing the very act that be did
come down at that time. By which your lord-
ships may observe, how hard a matter it is for
witnesses that are present at a trial (especially
at a trial which did not directly, though it might
in consequence concern anether person of their
relation) to take notice exactly of things.
And truly, my lords, these ludics being of
that religion, might have so much concern upon
them for sir George Wakeman the popish phy-
sician, and in him for other their friends of tut
party, that they might not have so much liberty
of thought, as to observe exactly all circum*
stances sworn to by the witnesses ; and there-
fore it is no great matter if they are mistakes
in them. But I believe if any one do consslt
the print (though it be no evidence, nor offered
as such) he will find do such thing was at that
time sworn ; for it is not so printed, and those
that took notes did not understand it so.
My lords, the next witness my lord is pleased
to bring, is his servant Furnese ; and what is it
that he testifieth ? He saith, that be was wits
my lord the whole time that Dugdale iras is
my lord's chamber; and he doth not remember
that ever Dugdale was there but once, and be
doth not remember that ever my lord bid bin
go out of the room.
My lords, it is a very hard matter for a roan
to come thus in the negative, to remember bow
often Dugdale was there, especially there beiog
no more occasion to take notice of it then, tbas
here appears to be, and that after so long a
time. And it is a very hard matter for a ser-
vant to gain credit, by say ins his master oerer
bid him go out of the room in his life. These
things may be done or said, and yet escape tbe
memory of a servant of more age, and of le*s in-
clination to favour his master, than this persoa
appears to be of and to have. Therefore I think
there will be but a very small matter made of
what he said, no force at all in it ; and 1 be-
lieve your lordships will give very little regard
to it ; but rather believe those witnesses that
swear positively, that they have seen him with
my lord, and speak to a familiarity at that time
between them.
This, young man Furnese, was my lord's
servant, and of his religion; and it is consider-
able, whether we have not reason to be afraid
that more than ordinary practice has been used
to prepare evidence on my lord's behalf, wbick
I shall have occasion to speak to when I come
to the other witnesses.
His next witness, my lords, was his boy,
George Leigh, who is 15 years of age notr,
and was eight years *old when he came to my
lord seven years ago. And he attests the tamt
thing, and to the same purpose with the other.
And I think I may leave him with the tamt
answer, for we are nothing more concerned
with him than we were with the other. Only
one thing I would observe, to shew that bis me-
mory was imperfect ; he doth not remember
that Dugdale was with my lord at all that day,
which my lord himself doth acknowledge bf
was, and the other witness agrees ; so that
there cannot be any great weight laid upon vbat
he saith.
My lord's next witness was Thomas Sawyer,
and he is one of my lord Aston's servants, that
I desire to observe of him first. And wbat
does he say J He saith, that Dugdale went away
for debt. The contrary to which was appa-
rently proved ; for we, by our witnesses, made
itmauifest, that Dugdale went away for lb*
1501]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lords.
[1509
matter of the Plot; the fear and dread be was
in upon that score, and the circumstance of his
beiug apprehended by the watch at night in his
.flight, and bow be was put to take the oaths,
do manifestly prove this. But be says another
thing, which I desire may have no weight with
your lordships, that Dugdale should threaten,
that because my lord Aston would not own him
for his servant, he would be 'revenged of him.
Truly, if my lord Aston were here to he tried
it would have some weight. But to think, if
it were true, that he had so sworn, that there-
fore he would be so wicked as to do mischief
to another man, that he would be revenged of
every man of tljat religion, or of every man
that came to my lord Aston's house ; that can-
not be imagined. So I cannot see what great
•tress, my lords, the prisoner can lay upon it,
as to the present trial, which concerns my lord
Stafford.
But, my lords, I desire to observe, that he
says further ibat when Dugdale went away
there was a discourse of a plot (this he helps
out Dugdale in :) And that there was a dis-
course of the killing of a justice of peace. So
that certainly it does shew, that Dugdale was
apprehensive of the Plot. AT»d as to that
which be is pleased to say, that Dugdale should
deny his knowledge of the Plot, and take drink
and with execrations forswear it ; it will be no
manner of objection at all. For I shall have
occasion to shew hereafter, tbat Dug-Jile at
* that time was very far from revealing the Plot
he bad been so long engaged in ; he was in ap-
prehension of the danger of his own life, and
Soothall tells you how and when he revealed it,
and by what inducements he was prevailed
upon to do it.
The next witness my lord called, was Philips,
- the minister of Tixall; and truly all that I can
accuse him of, is want of memory, and that is
no fault in a man, that perhaps is very studious
and eareful in bis employment, as I hope he is.
He tells you, that whereas Dugdale swore at a
former trial, that he acquainted Mr. Philips
with the death of a justice of peace of West-
minster on the Monday, that he did not ac-
quaint bim with it ; that i% he does not remem-
ber it, for no man that swears a negative, can
•wear more. But whether Mr. Philips's evi-
dence be of any consequence to us, we submit
to your lordships consideration ; when we op-
pose to his want of memory, two witnesses
that swear he was by when this news was told :'
And we are told likewise, as a confirmation of
that, by two gentlemen of quality, that the re-
port oi each a thing was spread abroad all over
that country, before it was possible for it to
come by the way of ordioary intelligence.
Whether, therefore, what Mr. Philips testifies,
proceeds from any other cause than want of
memory in Mr. Philips, I must leave to your
lordships consideration.
But this I would observe to your lordships,
that when Mr. Philips was asked by my lord,
whether or no Dugdale were a person likely
to perjure himself, he could not say so ? Nay,
7
being asked of what reputation he was of?
he said, by some he was very well sp»ken of,
by some but indifferently ; but I do not re*
member tbat he said he was ill spoken of by
any. So I think Mr. Philips has rather advanced
than prejudiced Mr. Dugdale 's reputation and
credit.
My lords, I think I may lightly pass over
the three justices of peace that were brought
to give an account of Dugd ale's behaviour be-
before them, and not mention them distinctly
because they swear all to the same purpose,
That Mr. Dugdale was apprehended upon sus-
picion of the Plot, that he took the oaths, that
he was invited and urged by them to make a
discovery of the Plot, which he then denied to
have any knowledge of : For all this will be
answered, when we come to remind your lord-
ships of Mr. Sou t hall's testimony.
His lordship was pleased, in the next place,
to offer to prove Dugdale an ill man, by en-
deavouring to suborn witnesses: And in the
first place he called Robinson, who testified a
very unlikely thing, that Mr. Dugdale should call
him in the street, and bring him to an house,
and offer him money to swear against my lord
Stafford ; which money he had in an handker-
chief, but did not tell him what particulars he
should swear to : Nay and this after he had
told bim he could swear nothing. And it does
not appear, tbat Dugdale had any manner of
knowledge of him, or that this gentleman,
Robinson, had any knowledge of my lord Staf-
ford ; So that it was a very rash and presump-
tuous thing, that Dugdale should attempt* man
that he knew not ; and a very imprudent thing,
tbat he should suborn a witness to swear against
a man that the witness to be »uborned did not
know. But I shall say no more of him, be-
cause I think upon the account that lias been
given of him by a noble earl of this House,
and an honourable member of the House of
Commons, if he had said things in themselves
probable, he is not in the least to be believed. •
Mv lord's next witness upon- the same head
of subornation, was one Murral. a poor barber ;
and what says be ? he testifies that Mr. Dug-
dale did offer him 50/. to swear against sir
James Symons and some others. My lords,
whether this be probable or no, we must leave
to your lordships. We have called witnesses
that prove him a man of no reputation1, one
that runs up and down the country, a kind of
vagabond, and I think (upon the endeavours
that have been proved to have been used as to
others), it is no very hard matter to bring a man
of his condition to say as much as he hath
done.
The next witness is Samuel Holt, the black-
smith ; and he tells such a story, that if it were
true, would be some disparagement to Dug-
dale : And what is that r he says, that pug-
dale sent a man and horse for him, to bring him
to the Star in Stafford ; and there offered him
40/. to swear that one Moore carried away
Evers. My lords, how this story comes in, I
cannot imagine; why Mr. Dugdale should
1503] STATE TRIAli* 52 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedkgi again* the [150*
tear any ill-will to Moore, or what should in-
duce him to intice this man to swear against
Moore, or what else was in it, it doth not ap-
pear. But no matter what it was for; we
prove against this man, by two witnesses, Raw-
fins and Lander ; by the first, that he is a man
of ill reputation, very zealous to support the
Plot, and cry down Mr. Dugdale, saying, that
he was a rogue, and ail they were rogues that
took part with him. And by the other witness
Lander, that Holt did make an assault upon
him, and would have killed him for being
ready to appear against my lord Aston at his
intended trial : So that he is a man that has
more zeal thau honesty : zeal in no good matter,
namely, to hinder the truth from coming out
against my lord Ast ,n ; and therefore we nave
little reason to wonder, nay, alt the reason in
the world to believe, that he says that which is
untrue about Mr. Dugdale.
My lords, there was another witness, Mr.
Lydcott, that said, he was a fellow of King's-
College in Cambridge. He has offered no
proofs that he was so ; and truly it is very im-
probable he should be so : for I hope fellow-
ships in the university, especially in one of the
chief colleges (as tins is) are bestowed upon
more deserving, and less suspicious persons than
he appears to be : A man that owns himself the
continual companion and secretary of one so
famous in the Popish party as my lord Castle-
main is : ft man that pretends he was never out
of his company ; and a man that owns, that
two years since, be was taking of notes at a trial
for (his plot, not only for his own curiosity, but
for the service of his lord, who was concerned in
the accusation : that this man should be a
fellow of King's- college, seems strange, and till
it be better proved, will hardly be believed, nor
will he deserve any credit. It is true, he doth
acknowledge himself a protectant, and to be of
the church of Enaland, and educated, as he
Says, a Presbyterian ; but when he was asked,
when he received the sacrament last ? I do not
remember he gave your lordships any answer.
This witness says, that he was at the trial of
the five Jesuits; and there Dugdale did swear,
Chat he gave notice to Mr. Philips and Mr.
Sambidge of sir Edmuudbury Godfrey's death:
and this they would make* to be a great fault
in Dugdale, because neither Philips cor Sam-
bidge remember it. Now whether Dugdale
swore true in that or no, does not depend upon
Dugdale's own credit alone ; but you have
heard other witnesses have made it appear, that
he did swear true : so that we need not say any
thing more to this witness, nor to Gilford, who
testifies to the same purpose; because that
point, as to the report of the death of the justice
of peace, is by other witnesses clearly proved.
And as to Mr. Sambidge, I do not wonder
much, that he should say he did not hear it, be-
caus4 he could hardly hear what was said to
him by the court, or any of the officers set neat*
him on purpose. But my lords, I desire your
lordships to take notice, that he was a very
angry witness; he said, he had formerly had a
controversy with Dugdale, that Dugdale had
cited him into Litchfield-court, and had there a
suit against him for a defamation ; and be said
that against Dugdale, which, unless better
proved, must needs make Sambidge much sus-
pected : he said, that Dugdale was the wicked-
est man on earth, but what proof he offered of
that, or whether he did iusiance in any one par-
ticular, I leave to your lordships memories.
My lords, there is another proof relating to
Mr. Dugdale, not out of the mouth of a witness,
but out of a paper, which I desire to give an
answer to. It was an objection the prisoner at
the bar was pleased to make to Dugdale's in-
formation, taken the 24th December, 1673,
before the justices in the country, wherein he
had said to this purpose ; Presently after one
Howard, almoner to the queen, went over, he
was told by George Hobson, that there was a
design, &c. This, suith my lord, is most impos-
sible to be .true : for you Say, that im mediately
after the almoner was gone away, Hobson told
you this, whereas Hobson went away with the
almoner; and he came not 'to live with my
lord Aston till many years afterwards.
This my lord is pleased to offer as a falsifi-
cation of Dugdale's testimony ; but, my lords,
I do desire to observe, that this is an informa-
tion taken before two justices of peace in the
country; and if you look upon it, you will see
it was written by a country clerk, and not very
skilfully done. It is rather short notes of an
examination, than a complete examination.
And your lordships will please likewise to ob-
serve, that there is not really an expression that
is clear one way or the other, but cnp.il le of
two senses ; that is to say, either it may import
Hobson told him there was a design ever since
the almoner Howard went away ; or it may im-
port, Hobson told him presently after the al-
moner went awav, there was a design. Read
but the words with a different comma, and it
makes the sense one way or the other. Now
it is plain, Dugdale could not intend that Hob-
son told him so as soon as the almoner went
away, because Hobson went away with the al-
mouer. And it was better to his purpose, that
Hobson should tell him so after his return than
before, for that shews the design had been
long a carrying on.
Therefore it being a doubtful expression, that
may refer either to the time he told it hire, or
.to the matter he told him of; and be in: tuten
in the latter sense, the objection fa; let h ; I
think this matter can have no weight at All in it
to falsify a positive testimony.
My lords, The next witness we did call, and
which was objected against by my lord, was
Dr. Oates ; and truly I must observe, that hit
lordship was not pleased to call any one wit-
ness materially to falsify Dr. Oates's testi-
mony ; and I must likewise observe, that Dr.
Oates is, in the material part of his evidence,
supported by other evidence.
When Dr. Oates gave evidence at former
trials, it was the common discourse of the rnea
of that religion, that Dr. Oates had never been
1505]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Five Popish Lord*.
[1506
in Spain, nor had ever any credit with the
priests or Jesuits, but was a mean contemptible
person, and that -ail he said was improbable.
But now your lordships have heard that Dr.
Oates, even by the testimony of Dennis a
popish priest, (that is so to this day) was in
Spain, was, according to what he saith, brought
up in the college of the Jesuits ; that he was in
such esteem theie, that the archbishop of Tuam
commended him very much in the presence of
Dennis, and spoke of what expectation there
was of him. So that Dennis the priest doth
support Dr. Dates in some parts of his evi-
dence. I do not speak of that part of it which
concerns this particular lord, but pf his testi-
mony touching the general Plot.
There is another tiling wherein Dr. Oates is
supported by another witness, and that is the
esteem and intimacy he had with the Jesuits.
.For Mr. Jenison swears, that Dr. Oates was a
man in esteem among them, that he was at
Ireland's chamber, and had discourse with Ire-
land, and did appear to be frequently employed
by them. And I 4ake these two witnesses
to be a great support to Dr. Oates, as to the
general matters which lie evidenceth of the
Plot.
What now doth my lord object against Dr.
Oates ? lie called no witnesses against him,
but only an honourable earl of this House, I
think I may name him, the earl of Berkeley :
and that which his lordship was pleased to tes-
tify against him, was;
Obj. That being examined at the House of
Lords after Ike had given a long evidence against
.many persons, be was asked this question,
Whether there were any more persons of
quality he could speak against, or could accuse ?
and he said. No.
An$w. First, your lordships will be pleased
to observe, that this was after he had accused
my lord Stafford ; my lord was secured in the
Tower long before that upon Dr. Oaies's testi-
mony, and so he could not exclude this lord.
But that which it is brought for (I suppose) is
to make him a person of no credit; for after
he had said this, he proceeded to an accu-
sation of the queen. My lords, I humbly
conceive this may receive a very fair answer.
For,
First, my lords, I appeal to your lordships
memories (fur, I think, the matter was before
you all, or at leastwise before some of your
lordships), that the accusation which Dr. Oates
made of the queen was not positive, nor of
bis own certain knowledge ; but words which
he heard spoken iu a room in which he was not
himself, but coming in afterwards, he saw the
queen was there. So it was not positive, but
circumstantial proof, and questionable whether
what he testified would amount to the proof of
one witness.
And I must observe in the second place,
it might not be so dear to Dr. Oates, whether
the queen were a person capable of an accusa-
tion, so as to be proceeded criminally against ;
the king and Uje queen ace to some purposes
voju. \iu
but one person in law. It is true, some queens
have been tried for treason; but whether Dr.
Oates understood that she might be brought to
a trial, may be a question.
But that which I rely upon as an answer, and
which I desire may be considered, is, that Dr.
Oates had given un account of a great many
persons, and a great many things he had sworn
against several persons, some of which were
executed, some to he tried ; and his Narrative
against them, and of the whole Plot, consisted
of a great number of particulars. Here is a
question comes to the doctor on a sudden,
' Have you any more to say, far -can you speak
* against any other ?' It is possible a man that
had said so much, and of so many, might nut
upon an instant recollect whether he had said
all, or against all that he could say : nay, it is
easily to be imagined he could not on a sudden
comprehend all he had said or could say.
Therefore that the answer of a man to such a
question, put suddenly to him, having so much
in his mind, and having said so much, should
be taken so very strictly, and to hold him as
perjured, because he did not at that instant
time remember this particular of the queen, I
think it a severe construction.
His lordship is pleased further to object
against Dr. Oates, that he is of no credit :
Why ? Because he went to be of the Romish
religion, and so was of that religion which (s
idolatry : I suppose his lordship will not call
that religion idolatry another time, and in ano-
ther place : but it serves his iordship upon this
particular occasion, to call it so. But suppose
Dr. Oates did, out of levity, or for want of
being well grounded in his own, turn to another
religion, he is not the first man that hath done
so: there have been men of great fame in our
church, and of great learning ton, that have
changed their religion more than once. I
think he that knew that famous man Mr. Cbil-
lingworth, could not but know be was first a
Protestant, and- afterwards a papist, and after-
wards a Protestant again : so that unless my
lord could accuse the Doctor of some great
crime or immorality, it will bo hard, that the
matter of changing bis religion should hurt his
testimony. I am sure, it was happy for us he
did change ; without that we had not had the
first knowledge of the Plot, nor of many parti-
culars which he could not come to know but by
occasion of that change.
My lord was pleased to object, that the
Doctor was a man subject to passion ; and he
brought in the lieutenant of the Tower, to
speak of some hot words that passed between*
them. My lords, I will allow the Doctor to
be a man of passion ; nay, if my lord please, *
a man that isnot of the deepest reach : but your
lordships will observe, that passionate men axe
not often malicious; and that a man who is not
of a deep judgment, could never have contrived
and invented a Narrative, consisting of so mauy
particulars, and they so coherent, if they were
false. . And if his Narrative be not true, he*
must be endued with more subtly and wicked
5D
1'507 J STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— Pnccedingt against the £1505
policy, than upon trial we can find in him. So
that what my lord hath objected as to his in-
firmities, is no diminution to the troth of what
be says, but rather a confirmation of rL
My lords, The fast witness whom my lord
endeavoured to impeach is Mr. Turbervflc ;
and against him my lord thinks he hath a great
tin! vantage: but, my lords, by that time I hare
reminded your lordships of what hath been al-
ready said, and what was before proved in an-
answer to my lord's objections against him, Mr.
Turbervile will stand as clear in this court, as
any of the former witnesses.
Your lordships will be pleased to take notice,
That Mr. Turbervile was at the beginning,
when he came to the House of Commons, a
little uncertain as to matter of time : for when
fie had made in his affidavit, the times to be
1673 and 1676, he craved leave to alter it to
1672 and 1675. Surely, my lords, this will be
far from being any imputation to Mr. Turber-
vile ; because, fir*t he gives the reason, how be
came afterwards to understand the time better,
by viewing his papers and letters ; he likewise
gives you an account, and so did sir William
Poulteney, when he did this, the next morning,
before any man in the world had questioned
him upon it. So that it shews the man's care
and conscience both, when he is so careful,
even in matters of the smallest moment, to set
things right.
There is no man that knows the practice of
the court of Chancery, but. knows, that for a
man to mend hisauswer after it is sworn in a
point of time, or other circumstance, is no dis-
paragement to him : nay, to do it, before the
other party did except or take notice of it, is
no objection, but rather* a reputation to him :
and your lordships will be pleased to take
notice, that one of the times rectified, is of
. seven or eight years, the other of four years
standing. And I do not think the worse of a
witness that is not positive in a time, when that
time is so far elapsed.
The next matter is, That this man was never
with my lord : how was that proved, for it is a
negative r" Why, my lord is pleased to call his
own servants, Furnese, and the boy Leigh ;
t and what say they? They never saw any such
man. My lords, I desire your lordships to oh- .
serve, That Mr. Turbervile was introduced by
greater confidents than either of these servants.
Mr. Turbervile came in the company of the
priests, and you bear the boy deny that he knew
Anthony Turbervile, but not that he knew ratner
x Ttirbervile; nor doth my lord himself deny it,
nor doth either master or man deny my lord's
correspondency with the other two fathers.
And it might be very easy for Mr, Turbervile
to come in the company of the priests, and the
boy not take particular notice of him. And it
is as little an objection what my lord says that
Turbervile himself said he did not know the
boy : how many are there that come to the
houses of another, and unless they lodge there,
or dine there often, do not remember the ser-
vant* of the house ? Aad it is no greater an
objection to say, the servants did not know;
him: the priests they knew him; ther were
his guides ; they were the likeliest to gain bint
admittance, not only into my lord's house, but
into my lord's heart.
My lord*, your lordships will be pleased like*
wise to observe, they have also gone about la
very I it lie* matters to disprove Mr. Turoervile;
as that whereas he says, be was not well used
by my lord Powis and his lady, when be re-
turned from Doway, that he was very well
used : and as one witness (I think Minehead)
says, he was permitted to lie in a room near
my lord's chamber. My lords, Mr. Turbervile
does not pretend to say, that my lord Powis
shut him out of doors ; but what reproaches or
unkind words might pass between them in pri-
vate, Minehead might not hear : so that to
say, that he lay in my lord's house, is no an*
swer to this matter. And for the other wit-
ness (his brother) that speaks of his kindred's
being kind to him, that, under favour, does not
at all disprove him ; for, what was the kind-
ness ? Pits brother and sister were so kind as
to give him 7/. never to see him more ; a great
matter, when a younger brother lies upon a
family, that the trouble of his stay there is re-
deemed at the price of 7/. This was a very
great kindness, a kindness indeed that one
would scarce deny to a stranger, if in poverty.
I mention the least matters I can remember,
because I would have nothing stick with yous
lordships.
Then secretary Lydcott (the fellow of King's*
College) was called again; but indeed, my
lords, he was so out in his arithmetic, so mis-
taken in the year, and used the NewrStile (the
Romish) so much more than ours, that it makes
me suspect he is not so great a protectant as he
pretends to be. He promised us his book,
which he was not then prepared to produce;
hut because we do not hear of him, nor of his
book since, we say no more of him.
My lords, John Porter, my lord Powis's
butler, comes next, and what does be tell yoar
lordships ? Why, that Mr. Torberviile came
not to Powis house, (it seems be did not appear
there) but that ho came to a victualling boose
hard by ; and he telling Turberville he mess
know something of the Plot, he denied that he
knew any thing. To the same purpose, or ra»
ther to less, and more improbably, does YaJden
(the gentleman of Grays-Inn, as be calk him-
self) testify, who says, that walking in Gray's-
Inn walks, he had a discourse withTurberriile;
and that he then swore, there waa no trade good
now but that of a discoverer; and damned
himself because he could make no discovery.
Truly, my lords, this looks in itself to be some-
thing prepared for the purpose : It is not pro-
bable, thrft a man that -should use those horrid
oaths, and should, have such a raiod to be a
discoverer, should disable himself ever to be so
by swearing he knew nothing.
But I will not only answer that matter, with
saying it is improbable ; but I shall desire yoar
lordships to remember, that Mr. Powel, a fen-
1109] STAET TRIALS, S2 Chahlks II. l8S0t-Jbc Pcjish Lords. [15W
tleman of the same house, and of ^good repnta*
«ion, does swear, that Turbenwlle did acquaint
him, that lie could discover a considerable mat-
ter ; and this was above a year since. . And
Mr. Arnold, a member of the House of Com-
mons, does confirm it, that he did several times
acquaint him, that he could make an impor-
tant discovery ; and gave him several reasons
why he thought not fit to do it at that time,
because of the dangers which might arise from -
some great men ; and therefore till he had a
more convenient opportunity, he woujd not
discover. But as soon as the. parliament sat,
very early he did begin to discover: So that I
shall oppose the testimony of Mr. Powel and
Mr. Arnold, to the testimony of my lord Powis's
bntler and ' Mr. Yalden ; the latter of whom
speaks so improbably, and of a discourse half
a year ago ; whereas Mr. Powel speaks of what
Mr. TurberviJIe said above a year since, and
Mr. Arnold of a longer time.
My lords, it hath been sometimes objected,
that Mr. Turberville was a stranger to my lord;
and it was too great a trust to commit to a
stranger, too great a secret for a stranger to be
acquainted with: My lord's design of the kings
death was too great a matter to lodge with one,
with whom my lord had no more acquaintance
than be had with Turberville.
Your lordships will be pleased to ohserve
who they were that did introduce him, and
who probably gave the best character of him ;
they were the three priest* : And I do not
wonder when these priests had brought my lord
up to such a purpose, that they should prevail
with his lordship to give credit to, and deal
with a man that was not very unlike in his cir-
cumstances to attempt such a business z For
your lordships will observe, he was a man that
was very stout ; for against my lord's reflection
upon him as to cowardice in deserting the army,
Mr. Turberville hath produced the certificate
of bis dismission, which gives him a very good
character. Besides, he was a man indigent;
and therefore I think there could not be a fitter
man chosen for the purpose, if he had been so
void of all grace as to undertake it; and that
priests having gotten a man so qualified, as they
thought him, were not likely to let slip such an
opportunity.
But, my lords, to come to that which is the
sum of the business, and which my lord lavs
more weight on than all the rest; and that'is
the affidavit which Mr. Turberville swore be-
fore the justices of the peace (which was, in ef-
fect, what he informed the House of Commons),
and in that affidavit, besides his alteration of
times (which I have spoken to already) it is ob-
jected, that he does say thyt which is manifestly
untrue : For he says my lord came by the way
ef Calais, with count Gramont; neither of
i which my lord did do.
My lords, I will not mention the master of
the yacht,. nor the witnesses from the Admi-
ralty, which make out, that my lord came from
Dieppe, and not from Calais. Nor do I deny
that my lord came by himself, and not with
count Gramont; and therefore it is most cer-
tainly true, that what Turberville swore, as to
those two particulars, was not true. Yet if your
lordships please to observe the circumstances,
though what he swore herein was not true, it
will appear a very innocent mistake.
For in Turberville's Affidavit he tells your
lordships, That he came away without my lord
to Dieppe, and came from Dieppe to England
before my lord Stafford left Paris. Mr. Turber-
ville tells you afterwards my lord came from
Calais with count Gramont: Mr. Turberville
could not possibly be thought to speak this of
bis own knowledge, because he dees in the samo
Affidavit tell you too, that l>e came away before
my lord, and had not his passage with him.
So that, my lords, I desire you would ohserve,
it could be no design of his to affirm this of his
own knowledge: For if it were, he took a very
ill course to disclose in the same Affidavit that
he was absent, and so could not speak of hi*
own knowledge. And, my lords, suppose a
man did swear such a man and he were in such
company, and that he came home and left the
man there, and that afterwards the man said
such and such things in that company; what
should I sr-.y of this oath ? 1 might well say the '
words of his oath were not proper, or »that he
was unwary in expressing himself; but I could
not say, «or would any man justly be aide to.
say, he had a design to make the world bel eve
he heard him say so, because he swears in the
same breath, he came away before the words
were spoken. If Mr. Turberville had under-
stood how strict and nice a man ought to be
in expressing himself in an Affidavit, he would
have said, (as he had been told) my lord came .
to Calais; and that count Gramont came with
him, as be understood. It is true, he hath not
put in those words; but I beseech you, when
the matter itself will bear it, nay, when it is
most apparent, that Mr. Turberville could have -
no other meaning than to relate what he was
informed by others, and what he could not
know himself; what corruption, what obliquity
can there be in this oath ? All that can be said,
is, it was not cautiously worded ; but it does
certainly disclose so much in itself, that every
one that hears it must say, That he did not
take upon himself to swear it as of his own
knowledge, because he tells you he was not
there; so that it was rather want of knowledge
how to express himself properly, than any cor-
ruption in his oath, of forswearing himself.
But, says my lord, how should he conte to
know this? Why Mr. Turbemle said, hr had N
a letter whereby he knew my lord would come
by the way of Calais : But where is that
letter? Is it necessary to keep, or does
any man almost keep letters of rio greater
concernment than this that my lord writ
him word how he would go by the way of
Calais, and this after five year*, and after he
was in the wars, and where 1 have heard he
was taken prisoner ?. To be sure, he was much
tumbled up and down from place to place.
And under all these circumstances might not
1511] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1 680.— Proeeedmgt again* tk [15W
such a letter be lost ? But, my lords, I beseech
you, are there net some proofs that look much
this way, made out by another witness? Does
not Mr. Mort tell you something of this na-
ture? First, lie agrees as to the matter of an
English lord lying about such a street in Paris,
he tells you he was with Mr. Turbervile, and
that he himself walked about Luxeraburgh-
house whilst Mr. Turbervile went to speak with
that English lord : lie does say, he believes his
name was my lord Stafford, but he js not post-
tive ; and the times which he speaks of do
agree with what Mr. Turbervile deposeth.
And there is one thing, which, though I should
not mention upon ony other occasion, because
iH was but a foolish joke, yet I shall crave leave
td speak of it now. lie tells you, That one
day, while they were at Dicp in expectation of
my lord's coming, and hen ring that he went
another way, they had this piece of minute
wit upon it, ' Cursed is he that relies upon a
broken Staff:' Whereby, he thinks, was meant
the name of Stafford. So then, I beseech you,
if Mort say true, are not here footsteps, and a
foundation whereon to ground a belief, that
there was a correspondence between Turbervile
and my lord ; and that Mr. Turbervile had an
information, that my lord would come by the
way of Calais ? And one thing more Mort says,
That Turbervile told him, if he would make
baste to Calais, he might go over with my lord.
And here I would observe, how sh**ld Mr.
Turbervile come to know that my lord went
that way ? And how should he tell Mort that
he might go over with my lord from Calais, un-
less he had received some such information ?
Therefore, my lords, taking into consideration
what is confirmed by Mort, and taking into
consideration the whole scope of the affidavit,
I cannot see that there can be any material ob-
jection against Mr. Turbervile for saying, that
my lord came by Calais in the company of
count Gramont.
My Lords, 1 have done now with the wit-
nesses, and I told you, as I went along, (be-
cause I would not trouble you with a double
repetition) what evidence we have given in con-
tradiction to those witnesses which my lord
hath brought in order to defame our witnesses.
But, my lords, I am to acquaint you, That
besides these particular answers, your lordships
have had men of very great credit brought to
testify the reputation of Mr. Dugdale and Mr.
Turbervile, As to Mr. Dugdale, we have
brought men that have known him a great
while ; one hath sworn what opinion even my
lord Aston himself had of him : For it seems
he lived with so much credit there, that he
would not believe any ill of him. You have heard
from other witnesses how he did behave himself.
It was objected sometimes, tradesmen were not
paid; but what then ? can a man pay without
money ? I believe there are some lords here,
whose stewards are very honest men, and yet
the tradesmen such lords deal with are not al-
ways readily paid.
He was, as you observe! believed to be in the
plot, and toy lord's servants say he trtmed
much troubled about it ; he went away anon
that account, and was so much concerned, that
he burnt his papers, which I make use of for
two purpo&es, The oncto shew that he did ap-
prehend he was in great danger; theotlnrto
shew what was the reason why the letters sad
papers he speaks of are not now produced; be-
cause he looked upon himself, and them wto
were then his friewds, to be in such danger by
them, that he burnt them.
My lords, I know your lordships wiM take no-
tice, that there hath been a very good account
given you, how it was that Dugdale came to be
prevailed upon to make a discovery or the plot;
it was with great difficulty; there were jndted
persuasions used by some of his tnei.ds to bnng
him to it. The justices, as they themw.ui
have sworn, endeavoured tbe same thin*:, fast
ail without success. Then the coruner, Mr.
Southall, (who though he wa» no great, yet
seems to be a very understanding man) takes
him in hand, and be had tl*e good kmuneto
succeed. I call it good, not only far Mr. Dog-
dale, but for the nation. 1 »li«il not trouble
your lordships with the particulars of the argu-
ment Mr. Southall used to hiin, but it is plain
(if you believe Mr. Southall, whose credit is
now supported by an honourable lord, aod by
a member of the Hou»e of Commons) tut
Dudgdale did at the first time that he did make
a discovery, depose as much iu substance"
against this lord, as now be does. And from
thence I desire to make one observation, aod
thai is this :
It was impossible it could be a contrivance
among the witnesses them>elves to depose the
same crimes against this lord ; lor Dr Oates
never knew Mr. Dugdale, till Dugdale was
brought up, which was long after Dr. Oates's
accusation of this lord ; nor could Dugdale
know what evidence Oates had given here, for
Dugdale was a close prisoner in Stafford gaol
before Oates accused this lord, and long after.
And yet the first evidence Dugdale giws
against this lord, doth in substance concur with
that given by Dr. Oates. So that since there
could be no intercourse nor conference between
them, but as much distance as from the prison
doors in Stafford to London, there could be «•
contrivance between them, for both of l hem to
accuse this lord of the same matters. And
this I desire may be looked upon by your lord-
ships as a matter of great weight to support
the credit of the whole evidence. And Dog-
dale does seem to be a person of an unques-
tionable credit, and every one that bears him
must observe, he does give his evidence who
great modesty; And all probability of troth.
There is another thing, ray lords, that I
would pray your lordships to observe, 1n«e
witnesses, Mr. Dugdale and Dr. Oates, do gi«
such an evidence as is impossible to be gireo,
unless it were true ; for other witnesses when
they are put out of the road, and asked ques-
tions they did not expect, are commonly w
seek, and mn$t pump for an answer, and in©
m*i3)
STATE TBULSt 92 Charles II. 16&0.— Fbc Pbpuh Lord*.
[1514
stnawer with great difficulty and wannest. But
tjftese two witnesses do not only answer with
readiness when yow ask them any questions,
t>at what if contained in every new answer
doth add a farther probability and confirma-
tion to what they said before. And I must
need* say of them, 1. think it were impossible
for any men in the world to eontme a story of
esa -many particulars, and so consistent in every
part of it, iind yet the same should be false ;
and which is more, after so many trials, not one
material circumstance of what they say contra-
dicted by any solid proof.
My lords, There may be other particulars
which I may have forgotten; I know not whe-
ther I observed that my lord objected that we
do not prove him a papist : I hinted something
before about his coming to mass to my lord
Albion's at Tisall, which is one sort of proof of
bis being of the Romish religion. Besides his
perpetual conversation with that party, and his
endeavours to promote their religion and de-
signs, all which have been fully proved : I
think aUo mv lord deserted the House of Peers.
for that be would not take the test appointed
by the late act; your lordships best know whe-
ther he did so or no. But, my lords, let him,
if he will, be a Protestant for this time; let that
be supposed: If he were a Protestant, and
should be guilty of the offences proved upon
him, he would not deserve more favour from
yow lordships.
My lord hath been likewise pleased in further
proof of his innocency to alledge, that alter the .
Plot was discovered, he had seven posts time to
have escaped, and yet uever fled. My lords, It
is true he might have fled, so might Coleman
too ; that Coleman that left so fatal an evi-
dence against himself and all his party under
his own hand, and for that had reason to be-
liere himself very guilty : And so might the Je-
suits have escaped too, but that they had hopes
the oath of secrecy, and the means they had
used to conceal their damnable designs, would
have been a sufficient security against revealing
it. They had that opinion of their priests, and
of the fidelity and constancy of those that had
been seduced by them, and recommended by
them, that they apprehended nothing less than
a discovery. And those other persons that
were executed, did all stay about the town after
the Plot was discovered, as well as this lord
staid in the country.
My lord did very much complain, that our
witnesses were not positive in point of time : I
think Dugdale was positive enough as to the
time of the offer of 500/. bat for other matters,
be would not confine himself to a month : He
talked of the latter end of one month, and the
beginning of another, I think lie is the more to
be believed; for I conceive, unless a witness
hath some notorious circumstance in bis me-
mory to satisfy him aoout the certainty of the
time (such as was that of the foot-race, as to
Che time of the offer of 500/.) it is rather a mark
of presumption than of sincerity for u witness
lo be too positive as to the time. And is there
so great a distance between the latter end of
one month, and the beginning of another, that
a witness need to be positive as to the very day?
Bat, says my lord, 'You tattt of the eepinatag ;
it was the 19th of September ere I came thither.
Does not every man count, that till the middle
of a month it is the beginning of a month?
Sure in common speech it is so. Therefore I
look upon that as a matter scarce worth the
mentioning; I am sure, not worth the serious
answering.
But, my lords, I must observe thus much)
That what my lord coevprains of as a fault in
our witnesses, his own witnesses are guiky of.
For I appeal to your lordships, when they came
to speak of times, whether they did not talk at
a distance of a month or months, and sometimes
of years, and were less certain in point of time .
than ours*
But, says my lord (for I am still answering
his objections, and you must take them as I
find there), here is mention made ay Dr. Oates
of letters, of many letters ; shew me some of \
those letters : Shew ma the letter you carried
to the post house. My lords, were those letters
written to Dr. Oates? Did they belong to him?
Or is it possible that my lord's letter delivered
by the Doctor to the Post-house, should now
be shewn by the Doctor, or that the letters
writ to the Superior of the Society of the Je-
suits, should be produced by one that was a no-
vice of that society ? Does Dr. Oatrs talk of one
letter written to himself? You will then, I sup-
pose, see no reason to expect those letters
should be produced by him that were not writ-
ten to him, and the custody whereof belonged
to others.
My lords, I must observe to you, that there
have been great endeavours used to invalidate
our testimony ; we have bad witnesses called
against witnesses, and my lord hath had that
advantage to da ir, which perhaps was never
given in any case-before, and which I hope will
never be again. The evidence hatli been printed
and published to the world, before it hath been
given. I say not that it was not necessary in
this case, which was a national cause, and the
cause of our religion ; hut I do say, it would not
be fit to he done in other cases ; for the noti-
tying of the evidence is the way to have it falsi- ,
bed and corrupted.
But notwithstanding all these advantages, my
lords, I appeal to your lordships memories,
what considerable contradiction hath been
given, h is true, some witnesses to that end
have been brought before your lordships, but
those witnesses have been rendered incredible
by more credible persons ; and I would desire
your lordships to observe, that though my lord
hath failed of proving any subornation in our
witnesses, yet we have proved much suborna-
tion endeavoured by his agents.
Your lordships have the record against Read*
ing before you ; and what reference that hath
t<> the lords in the Tower, every one does re*
member, and my lord is mentioned in that re*
cord. And I might likewise mention the bust*
1515] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cham.es II. 16S0.— Proceeding* again* the [1516
nets of Cellier, anil what therein related to the
lords iii the Tower. And I will name but two
witnesses more, that have been attempted upon
in this nature : There was Wright the barber;
all the applications were made to him that
could be ; money given, letters writ, insinua-
tions that he was not to swear, he was but to
write, and that was easily done ; or if he would
be so kind to swear it, he should never come
into open court, only go before a justice of
peace ; so that Your lordships will observe by
what steps and degrees men were endeavoured
to be suborned. And then Launder tells you
what was offered to him to perjure himself, how
he was brought to Tixall, and what endeavours
were used to make him swear against our wit-
nesses.
, These things are plain, both by records and
E articular proofs upon oath. But, my lords,
»t we should want proof of all, this very lord
(1 pity him for it) hath been so unfortunate as
to bring that paper our of his pocket, which
Wright says he had money to frame, and was
to swear to. It seems my lord had the com-
mand of it, it seems to have been prepared for
such a good time as this, and the producing of
this paper is as full a confirmation of this point,
as can in reason be expected,
r My lords, I have been, I fear, too long al-
ready ; and yet, 1 fear, I have omitted as many
particulars as I have mentioned.
My lords, the evidence is so strong, that I
think it admits of no doubt; and the offences
proved against my lord and the rest of his party
are so foul, that tbey need no aggravation. The
offences are aga'nst the king, against his sacred
life, against the Protestant religion, nay, against
all Protestants ; for it was for the extirpation
of all Protestants out of these three nations. I
mean not of every one that is now so, but of
every one that would have continued so, every
one amongst us (if these designs had been ac-
complished) must either have turned his reli-
gion, or turned out of his country, or have been
burned in it.
It is a design that appears with so dreadful a
countenance to your lordships, to this great as-
sembly, and to the whole nation, that it needs
not any words I can use to make you appre-
heud it. If the matter be fully proved (as I see
no reason to doubt but that it is), I am sure
your lordships will do that justice to your king
and country, as to give judgment against these
offenders, which wilf not only be a security to
us against them, but a terror to allot ho s against
committing the like offences.
L. Stafford. I beg your lordships to know,
whether you will give me leave to speak a
word ? And, my lords, I shall not speak any
thing but as to a mistake sir William Jones
hath made in two or three things. Pray, my
lords, may I put you in mind of them ?'
Sir W. Jones. If there be any mistake, pray
tell us what it is.
L. Staff. First, my lords, he did omit telling
you that Mr. Turbervile's brother did say he
came in 167 1 to my lord Powis'a. Secondly,
he says, I have proved myself a Papist, became
I have not taken the test : My lords, the test
was since I was in the Tower, and whether I
will take it or not, I do not yet know, till it be
offered me. The third is this, that this letter
was in my pocket, which I produced toyoa:
My lords, I knew nothing what was in it, it
was given into my hand as I stood here at the
bar. Fourthly, he said, Hobson did go out of
England with the almoner; he did not so.
Another thing he says, that I said Oates wasaa
infamous person, because he went to a chorea
that I said was idolatrous ; I only said, it was
so adjudged by act of parliament. I find, my
lords, these things lie is mistaken in ; and that,
my lords, made me very willing to put you in
mind of them.
L. H. S. Gentlemen, I would ask yoo,
whether you take any notice of the points i&
law ?
Sir Fr. Winnington. After the fact is stated,
my lords, we shall.
[Then Mr. Powle, also one of the Commit-
tee appointed to manage tbe Evidence, pro-
ceeded further in summing up the same :]
Mr. Powle My lords, tbe learned person
that spake last, hath left very little for me to
say in the summing up of this evidence : Bat
because this noble lord hath been pleased to
alledge several reasons, from whence be would
infer at least a great improbability, that.be
should be guilty of the treasons whereof be
stands accused, I shall crave your lordship* pa-
tience, that I may give three or four words in
answer to those particulars.
My lords, in the first place, this noble lord
was pleased to begin, and afterwards to con-
tinue his defence, with making protestations of
his own iunocency : We very well know your
lordships sit now in the seat of justice, sad
whatsoever credit or regard your lordtkipt
please to give to the protestations of a peer in
another case, your lordships will proceed here
only according to your proofs and your evi-
dence (secundum allegata et probata), and
therefore all we shall say to this, is, that we
hope our proofs are so clear aud evident, as will
leave no room to your lordships to believe this
noble lord's protestations. — In the next place,
my lord is pleased to alledge, and withal to lay
some weight upon it, the voluntary surrender-
ing of himself to justice ; and be laid it dowa
as a rule, that as flight is an argument of
guilt, so tbe surrendering of a man's self to the
trial of the law, is an argument of innocency.
My lords, we admit the rule generally to be
true, but in some particular cases it may be
otherwise ; for a man that is not very confident
of his own innocency, may yet be very confi-
dent of tbe strength of his party ; and whether
the consideration of the circumstances of af-
fairs, as they then stood', and the power and
prevalency of the Popish party at that time,
might not reasonably create such a coufidence
in this noble lord, we must leave to your tout
ships judgment.
1517] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16$0.— >Firc Papuh Lords.
IVly lords, we do conceive, that those persons
-who contrived sir Edmundbury Godfrey's mur-
der, had so great confidence in the favour and
protection of some of iheir party, that they
thought themselves able to outface justice.
And we verily believe they inteuded it as an
example, to deter all men from meddling so
much as with the taking an examination con-
cerning this horrid Plot.
My lords, I desire to be understood aright
in this : I lay nothing of the death of sir Ed-
mund bury Godfrey to the charge of this noble
lord ; I only use it as an argument of the pre-
sumption, of the Popish parry at that time.
My lords, in the next place, my lord Stafford
did observe from my lord Coke, that in the
trials of treasons we ought very much to guide
our judgments by the nature and circumstances
of the fact (the concomitants and subsequent*,
as he termed them) with reference-to the per-
son accused, whether they were likely to induce
qt deter him from such an attempt ; and here
he was pleased to raise some arguments from
the whole course of his life, and did desire
your lordships to consider those circumstances
therein, that might make it improbable or im-
possible that he should commit a treason of
this nature-
He desired also your lordships to remember,
that he was descended from an honourable fa-
mily, and that bis ancestors were very worthy
and very deserving persons, and such as had
often ventured their lives in defence of their
• country : and here he did likewise mention his
own services to the last king, and our present
sovereign in the late wars.
It is not my part, nor will I derogate any
thing from the merits of thfs noble lord, much
less from the honour of his family : But in an-
swer to this, we shall desire your lordships to
consider, that this noble lord (however he is
pleased to disown it at present) is notoriously
known to be a Roman Catholic (as they call
themselves), and such we conceive we have
sufficiently proved him to be, in the course of
our evidtiice: And as there is nothing in the
world so much as a misguided conscience, that
can engage the best, of men into the worst of
actions ; so we think the principles of that reli-
gion are such, as are more likely to pervert
men from their duty and allegiance, than any
other religion or persuasion whatsoever.
_ And if the zeal of this noble lord did engage
him to endeavour the establishment of that re-
ligion in this kingdom, we may easily believe
that his reason did suggest to him the means by
which it must be effected, which could be no
other but blood and confusion.
My lords, the last thing I shall uke notice
of, is, what my lord Stafford was pleased to say
in general, as to the doctrine of killing and de-
posing princes, which his lordship was pleased
to call a private opinion, and not the doctrine
of the Church of Rome.
But by the-way, my lords, give me leave to
oberve, that this noble lord did upon this'
•cession fully own (and I much commend his
[1518
ingenuity in it) the reality of the Gunpowder-
Treason, since we know how much that party
have endeavoured to render it incredible : and
as length of time hath so fully manifested the
particulars of that execrable design, that it
haih brought such as are of that persuasion to
confess the truth of it ; su we hope this day's
trial will convince both the age we live in, and
all posterity r of the truth and reality of this
preseut conspiracy. But to go on with that
point from which I did digress : 1 am not, I
confess, much versed in the canons and coun-
cils of the Church of Rome ; but, my lords,
this I know, the most famous and celebrated
writers of that Church, especially of the Society
of the Jesuits, have publicly avowed and main-
tained this doctrine. And we know in all
times, when there hath been occasion to put
it in practice, it hath never failed to have
been attempted j and we likewise know, that
the Church of Rome and the Pope have always
avowed the acts when they have been done.
From all which we may very reasonably con-
clude, that it is the doctriue of that Church so
to do.
But my lord is pleased to say, and I admit it
for truth, That a great many private writers do
hold to the contrary ; I believe it to be so, but
1 do also believe, that it is the policy and arti-
fice of the church of Rome, to leave this point
of doctrine in some measure undetermined,
that so they may make use of it as the occa-
sion serves; for if it succeeds, then it is owned
and justified; if it miscarry, then the doctrine
is but a private opinion, aud the plot but the
practice of particular persons that are either
desperate or discontented. And I am fully of
opinion, that this horrid conspiracy which is
brought this day to judgment before your lord-
ships, wants nothing but success to canonize it.
My lords, as to what concerns the evidence,
it hath been so folly stated to you, and die ob-
jections that were raised to invalidate it, so well
answered, that I will not trouble your lordships
with any repetition of what has been said alrea-
dy : All we have further to desire, is, That your
lordships will please to take our evidence into
your consideration, and to do thereupon what
shall be agreeable to justice.
Serjeant Maynard. My lords, as to the mat-
ter ot fact I shall say nothing but only this, (and
I wish it may be spoken with gratitude to Al-
mighty God) that the discovery of this plot is
rather the work of God than man. It was first
his act, in prevailing upon Oates to make the
discovery; and when he* stood single almost,,
what came to support his credit but the letters
of Coleman ? which were like a tally to what
Oates bad said, far what Oates informs is in a
great part made good by his letters. Then
when Godfrey was murdered, how came that
discovery out, but by the voluntary confession
of one engaged in. the whole plot; I mean
Bedloe? So that though these men had engaged
themselves by -wicked oaths, yet their own con-
sciences witnessing against them in themselves,
3
1519] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL 1680.—
they could not forbear coming m to testify
against themselves. I shall guy no more, than
that we ought to acknowledge the hand of God
in the discovery with great thankfulness; fur it
is he, nnd he alone, that out of his own
grace and goodness hath done it, and thereby
preserved the life of our prince to us, and in him
us too.
But as to the matter in law : My lord lias
been pleased to mention first this*, That there
is no overt-act. I wonder that tnv lord should
be so much mistaken. When it is charged in
the articles, and proved to bis face he Teceived
a commission, is not that an overt-act ? He is
charged in the Articles of Impeachment with
contriving the death of the king, and being at
several meetings and consults about the king's
death, and hiring persons to kill the king; and
are these no overt- acts? Therefore, as to that,
my h>rd is mistaken.
My lords, another exception that is taken, is,
That there is no indictment. I conceive that
an impeachment of the House of Commons is
more than an indictment. And there canuot
be any doubt of that, the impeachments of the
House of Commons having always been receiv-
ed and proceeded on by your lordships.
But that which is most insisted upon, is,
That this charge that is made against this lord,
was presented in another parliament. It is true,
but under favour, what is once npon record in
parliament, may at any time afterwards be
proceeded upon.* It is a sudden objection,
but I conceive it hath been done: However,
in a case of this nature, when the life of the
king, when onr own lives, and our nation, and
our religion lies at stake, if there were not a
precedent, I hope yoa would make a precedent.
But under favour, reason is for it, the charge is
'before you, the proof is made, and we pray you
will judge according as the evidence hath been.
Sir IT. Jenes. My lords, as to these matters
of law, I think they are of so little difficulty,
that my lord will not desire to have counsel
assigned him; I am sure his counsel will not
desire to speak to them. — For this last matter
which Mr. Serjeant spoke of, and which was
first named by the prisoner, I desire your lord-
ships to consider what it is. Says my lord the
prisoner, there was an impeachment begun in
the Long Parliament, and this is now the third
farliament in which lam brought to my trial,
t is very true, there was a general impeach-
ment in the Long Parliament, the particular
one was in the last; and this lord was pleased
to plead in the last. It may be he was not so
well advised then as be is now.-^Jtat, my lords,
• bow can this be a doubt, when your lordship
* Seethe Case of the duke of Buckingham,
rarl of Bristol and lord Conway, ante, vol. 8,
p. 1446, and the Note there; and the Case of
'Warren Hastings, a.d. 17 m, post. See also lord
VDanby's' Case m the same year, and Mr. Gar-
Ta way's* Speech and the Note to it, in lord Cia-
tendon's Case, toI. 6/ p. 301.
il
'* agamt the [U3D
have resolved, and have sent it down to the
Commons, and it is there entered in their book,
as the law and constitution of parliament .
that not only impeachments, but all judicial
proceedings continue from parliament to ptrlit-
ment, in the same state that they were in it
the rising of the last parliament.— This is new
become the law of the House, and it is node?
favour, being so, the law of the kingdom; sod
you having thus 'declared it, and sent it to the
Commons, I hope the Commons had very food
reason to proceed upon this iinpeachneot at
this time. — The next matter is concerning the
ovect-acts; I think there arc sufficient Of«t-
acts iu proof, and sufficient in the impeach-
ment. Will any man deny that the rcceiing
a commission to be paymaster of ao tror
is an oyert-act ? Will any deny, that the seat
ingfor the witness, and offering him money a
order to hire him to kill the king, is an oten>
act? And (which answers to all) will any mu
deny that the meeting and consulting of scle-
ral men together, about killing toe king, and
changing the government, is an overt-act?— My
lords, these are all overt-acts; and I cannot
but think it was without advice of my lord's coun-
sel that he made these objections: for indeed
these several overt-acts are laid in the impeach-
ment as fully as they are made oat in proof—
My lords, There is another objection that ny
lord is pleased to make, and that is, that thee
is but one witness to a particular fact.
X. if. S. Ay, what say you to that?
Sir W. Jonet. That, my lords, is of btds
weight, with submission; for our impeach-
ments, and our proofs run to this, that my kml
had a design and intention to destroy tin
king : This was to be done by force, and this
was to be done by secret assassination. Nov
if several witnesses come and prove each ada>
tinci act, under this bead of killing the kiifcit
is so many proofs or witnesses to the treasotw--
For, my Lords, if a man shall intend to kill da
king, and shall buy a knife in one county at see
time, and send for a man out of another county
at another time, whom be shall hire to loll the
king, and these distinct acts proved by sewd
witnesses; if they concur to the seise test!*!
treason, they are all but parts of that, aadjo
are so many witnesses to the whole. And so I
am sure it Was resolved in the case of others sf
the conspirators in the Old-Bailey, and befose
that in the case of sir Henry Vane.* Bat, my
lords, in this case here is first a proof that he
accepted a commission, which I do net use ss
an act for the levying of war only, bat as a
design to change the government, and destroy
the kins. Here is meeting and cnnsalUDgho*
to do this wicked work, I mean to kill the
king; that is another overt-acL Here is offer-
ing money to one of the witnesses for that end;
that is a third overt-act. And there is attesss*
ing< another of. them, though not with saontyf
yet with promises of reward in general: taste
•another everUocti All which an to- this cad,
* See YoL6..f). lialef tbi* Collection,
1531]
STATE TRIALS, 82 Charles II. 1680.— Fa* ApisA Loris.
[15%
tfa* kitting of the king. And I am sure of ir,
your lordships cannot but receive satisfaction
from my lard* the judges, that it hath always
been so held, that though there need two wit-
aestes to prove treason, jet there needs no
moce than one to one act, and another to ano-
ther, if the several acts fall under the same
bead of treason.
Sir F. Wiunington. My lords, I crave your
patience but for a word or two, and this noble
lord will have litde reason to say his objections
in point of law are of any weight. 1 confess
lie bad said a jjreat thing, if it were true, that
the articles of impeachment did not al ledge an
overt-act ; for then indeed they bad been ap-
parently defective : But, under bis pardon, that
is not a point of Jaw, but a point of fact. Let
us therefore resort to the articles themselves :
Jo the second article it is slledged, that he, with
the rest, did moat wickedly and traitorously
agree, conspire and resolve to imprison, depose
and murder his sacred majesty, and to deprive
him of ilia regal state and government. And
then the same article alledges farther, that they
dirJLcontrive and consult to effect the murder
of the king, by shooting, by poisoning, and by
stabbing. Ail these particulars are expressed : so
that when my lord said the articles xvere
therein defective, all we can say, is, that lie was
misinformed.
My lords, there was another exception taken,
That this is the impeachment of another par-
liament. I must not now repeat how this point
was agreed by both Houses at a conference ;
hut it was then declared, upon search of pre-
cedents in all ages, That it was the law of par-
liaments, which is the law of the land, that if
once an impeachment by the House of Com-
mons weie lodged in the House of Lords,
though that parliament were dissolved, the im-
peachment remained in the same state. It was
the caube of -the Commons of England, who
only change their representatives in a new par-
liament.
It has been also objected, that this prosecu-
tion ought to have been upon an Indictment :
As if an accusation of the House of Commons,
who are the grand inquest of the nation, were
not as effectual to bring offenders to justice, as
the finding of a particular jury.
My lords, I should wonder to hear this ob-
jection made, were not my lord to be easily ex-
cused for his knowing the law no better.
None who know any thing in the law, would
have urged such a thing ; his counsel, I dare
say, did not suggest this matter to him.
It is true, my lords, when a peer comes to
be tried by way of commission, or in parliament
when it is not at the prosecution of the Com*
moos, there nn indictment is first found in the
proper county, and brought up before the peers
by Certiorari, and upon that they proceed ;
but whether the party be a peer or commoner,
if he be impeached for many crimes, surely no
one can deny, but that by the constant usage
of parliaments the Lords have proceeded to
trial, and have given judgment thereupon with-
VOL. VII,
out an indictment found : So that this excep-
tion will be of no force at all.
As for the remaining objection, That there
are not two witnesses to prove any one overt-
act, the king's person would be in no manner
of safety, if that doctrine should be once al-
lowed. Conspiring to kill the king is the trear
soa laid in the impeachment, and the several
oven-acts are so many several evidences of that
treason. Words themselves, if they signify
an intention to do an act, and express some-
thing to be done in fuluro, are a Mjtiicient
overt-act, and a legal evidence, of treason,
then we prove by another witness, not words of
encouragement only, but oilers of money, and
they are both to the same kind of (season,
though not to the same act, and at the same time.
And if there must be two witnesses to every
single act, the king of England is not only in a
far worse condition than any other prince, but
than any one of his own subjects. Treasons
may be committed every day with impunity,
and unless the traitors be as great fools as vil-
lains, he shall never be safe from them, nor
capable of punishing them.
I must say it, and I say it with commisera*
tion to the condition of this noble lord, that
his exceptions in law are as weak as the answers
he has given to our evidence. We hope no
doubt in law remains with you, and that we
have given your lordships full satisfaction of the
reality of the plot, and a convincing evidence
of the great share which my lord Stafford had
in it ; and we humbly pray your lordships
justice.
L. H. S. You do not take notice of one
thing that my lord Stafford said this morning ;
that is, That the witnesses are not competent
witnesses, because they swore for money, and
that is fit to be spoken unto ; not for the
weight of the objection, so much as fur the
satisfaction of the auditory.
Sir K Winnington. My lords, I had take*
a note of that, but forgot to mention it. If my
lord at the bar will say they have taken money
to swear, that is purely a matter of fact which
he ought to prove ; and that which is said and
not proved, ought to go for nothing : Let hiia
prove his case to be so, and then we will give
him an answer.
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, If your lordshipcan
prove that they have had money to swear, your
lordship urges that which will be material ; but
if it were only money to maintain them, that
sore will amount to no objection.
L. Staff. My lords, I submit it to your lord*
ships, whether Dr. Oates and the rest have not
had great sums of money, besides their charges
10/. per week a- piece. But I desire your lord-
ships to consider, and I appeal to many of your
lordships, whether it has not been said that
there was a defect in Coleman's and Lang-
horn's Trials! that they did not plead that ;
and if they had pleaded it, tbey roust have
been acquitted * I will name nobody, but I
appeal to your lordships, wbether some of you
have not said so, But I desire your lordships,
5 E
1633] STATE TRIALS, 52 Charlbs II. 1680.— Proceedings again* the [1524
to admit me co plead by my counsel ; if not,
1 submit it to you. I confess here is a piece of
law that I never heard of before, that the House
of Commons, and your lordships at a con-
ference, have adjudged it to be the law of par-
liaments, That impeachments shall continue
from parliament to parliament. If you will
please to hear my counsel for me, so ; if not, I
submit.
X. H. S. What would you, or can you prove ?
L. Stuff. My lords, those things that I have
given in to your lordships, I desire my counsel
may be beard to.
X. H. S. Gentlemen, What can you object
why lie should not have counsel to argue his
objections in law ?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, I do think under fa-
vour, if a prisoner in a capital cause do desire
counsel, he must not only alledge matter of law
to introduce that desire; but that which he
doth aliedge must be also a matter of some
doubt to the court : For if he do alledge matter
which in itself is not disputable, he shall have
no counsel allowed him. If your lordships are
not satisfied that it is the Jaw of your House,
that proceedings upon impeachments do con-
tinue from parliament to parliament, we cannot
answer that, it lies in your lordships breasts;
it is not what we are to argue, because it is a
natter that concerns the law and rules of par-
liaments. Is there, my lords, any doubt of any
other point that is urged ? Is there any doubt
of this thine, whether if one witness speak to
.one point of fines, and another to another, upon
the same sort of treason, but that these be two
such witnesses as the law requires? I pray then,
my lord*, consider the consequence of that
doubt : A man shall talk with twenty persons
about a design to kill the king, in one and the
same room, one after another, by taking them
into a corner singly ; and if ten, or all twenty
eome to prove it, here is but one witness to
each discourse. This would be a matter of
dangerous consequence, but I hope will remain
no manner of doubt with you, nor is it fit to be
argued.
As to the hiring of witnesses to swear, I think
that can be no point of law till it be so proved
in fact. Dotb his lordship think, that when his
majesty, out of his grace and bounty, allows a
maintenance to his witnesses, that this is an
objection to their testimony? Doth not every
man allow his witnesses a maintenance, and
jet it never was thought a thing to take away
their evidence ? It may be every one doth not
give so large an allowance as the king, because
his dignity is not so great. But can it be an
.objection to the House of Commons? Have
we that art the prosecutors maintained them?
If his majesty has been bountiful to his wit-
nesses,, what is that to this cause of the Com-
mons? If my lord can prove any thing of bri-
bery io us, as he has proved for us against him-
self, it may be an objection. But till that
fact be proved, I hope there is no ground for
a question in law ; and if there be no doubt in
Jaw, I hope there will be no need of counsel
L E. 8. My lard Stafford, What are the
points you would have counsel to ?
L. Staff'. To ail of them, my lords.
X. H. S. Would you have counsel to the first
point, to argue what the law of parliaments is
concerning the continuance of impeachments
from parliament to parliament ?
L. Staff. My lords, if you will declare the)
law to be as these gentlemen say, I most ac-
quiesce.
X. H. S. Pardon me, my lord, I do not de-
clare the law, but ask you whether yon woald
have counsel to argue that point?*
L. Staff. My lords, I do say there is no exam-
ple of it : I know there have been impeach-
ments, but no examples of impeachments con-
tinued from parliament to parliament.
X. H. S. Then in the next place, for I shall
propose your objections to their lordships by*
and- by, and desire their judgment in them, do
you desire to argue by your counsel, that every
overt-act ought to be proved by two witnesses f
L. Staff I do, my lords ; I desire my counsel
may be heard to all the points I mentioned to
your lordships.
X. H. S. Have you counsel ready to speak
to these points now ?
L. Staff'. Yes, my lords.
X. H. S. Are they prepared to speak to them
now?
L. Staff. They are, my lords.
X. H. S. If they be so, what hart will there
be in hearing of them ?
Sir W. Jones. My lords, Whether yon will
hear an argument from counsel abont the Law
of Parliaments, I hope you will please well te
consider.
Sir F. Win. My lords, We in the Home of
Commons do never suffer any couusel to tall
us what is the course of our house, and the Law
of Parliaments :f If your lordship think fit to
allow it, it is in your own power ; but we who
* In a Treatise " On the King's Power of
granting Pardons in cases of Impeachment,"
written by lord Finch (the Lord High Steward
for this Trial of lord Stafford) afterwards earl
of Nottingham, which treatise was published
in 1791, with evidence of its authenticity, is the
following passage : " It is a mistake to say that
impeachments depend from parliament to
parliament." — In the Advertisement pro
fixed to the treatise so published in the
year 1791, expressions are used which ap-
pear to intimate that in this Trial of lord Staf-
ford, the Lord High Steward had delivered an
opinion that Impeachments were not abated by
dissolution of parliament. I do not perceive ia
this report of the trial any declaration of such
opinion. It rather appears that previously to
the Protestation of the Managers against " An
Argument from counsel about the Law of Par*
liaments," the Lord High Steward was inclined
to permit lord Stafford's counsel to argue the
point.
fSee the Case of Shirley and Fagfrealfr
?ol,6Ap. H'-U.
1525]
STATE TRIALS/32 Chailbs II. 1630.— -Fa* Popisfi Lords.
[1526
are entrusted with the management of this,
cause by the House of Commons, have no direc- ■
tioo to consent to such a thins.
X. H 5. We will hear counsel, to save time
upon that point, whether in proof of a Treason
for killing the king, every overt-act ought to be
proved by two witnesses.
Sir W.Jones. If your lordships make a doubt
of it.
Sir F. Win. And if the prisoner desire it.
Serj. Maynard. My lords, we shall not op-
pose it ; but I shall wonder if any counsel do
maintain it.
X. If. 5. Are your counsel ready to speak
tothatpeint?
L. Staff. Here they are, my lords.
[Mr. Wallop of the Middle-Temple, Mr.
Saunders of the same society, and Mr. Hunt of
Gray V Inn appeared by the prisoowFiit the bar
as his counsel. J
Mr. Wallop. May it please your lordships, we
are here commanded by your lordships to at*
tend, that if any matter of law do arise upon
a case proved, agreed, and judged by your
lordships debatable, then in due time we are to
conform ourselves to your lordships command,
and argue those points for my lord the prisoner
at the bar. But if your lordships do think
that the points urged by my lord are not de-
batable in law, I have so high an opinion of
jour lordships judgment, and such a mean
opinion of my own talent, that I shall not un-
dertake to argue extempore in this great as-
sembly, in a cause of so high a nature.
X. H. S. Look you, sir, you are of my lord's
counsel.
Mr. Wallop. I am, my lords; and by the
order of your lordships do attend here.
X. H. S. If you tbink it is an arguable point,
you will have the judgment of my mRs after-
wards. Will you argue it now ?
Mr. Wallop. My lords, I always thought, if
a. point be stirred in any court, and thought dis-
putable, it should be stated and agreed before
,f it be argued.
L. H. 8. You are to argue for my lord, and
to know the juquent of the court afterwards s
"Would you know our opinions before- hand?
Mr. Wallop. We would know what it is we
mre to argue, if your lordship* please.
X. H. S. Why, if you are provided for it, you
are to maintain, that by law every overt-act
ought to be proved by two witnesses ; if you
are prepared, speak to it,- and my Lords will
bear you.
Mr. Wallop. It is true, my lords, there have
been tome public resolutions concerning that
point, therefore I shall be the warier what I
say, in that : but, my lords, it is a matter that
has been thought of great import one way or
other ; but I do profess at this time I am not
able to undertake a solemn argument upon
that point.
L. Staff. My lords, I am so far from delay-
ing this cause, that I desire it may be argued
now.
X. If. S. Then you are not ready to speak to
it?
Mr. Wallop. No, my lords, I am not for my
own part at present; for. it is impossible we
should foresee what would be the point: and
to apply ourself to study an unforeseen case
before it be agreed, stated, and judged worthy
of argument, cannot be expected from us. I
have always observed it in the King's-Bench, if
the prisoner urge any thing, and the court think
it debatable, they first agree and state the case,
then assign counsel, whom they do not urge to
deliver an opinion presently, but give thera time
to prepare for it.
X. H. S. Mr. Wallop, it is not believed that
this point is moved, but by your advice that are
of my lord's counsel, aud yoo should be ready
to maintain the advice you give ; therefore, if
you are so, speak. You have the protection of
the court for the counsel you give in matter
of law, and whatever advice you give, you should
maintain by the law.
Mr. Wallop. 'Truly, my lords, it is a point
that has, as I said before, received some settle*
mem ; but whether ever in this court, or no, I
cannot tell. Therefore I did discharge my
thoughts of providing any argument, till your
lordships should have determined whether you
will take the point upon the resolution in the
courts below to be finally settled and deter-
mined.
Sir W. Jones. So then it is agreed to be set-
tled in the ordinary courts.
L. Staff. I desire also it may be argued, whe-
ther words are an overt-act ?
Sir F. Win. It seems the law is with us in
case of a commoner; but whether k be so for
a lord, is the question.
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, how comes it to
pass that your lordship came prepared with
objections, but not with counsel ready to argue
them ?
L. Staff. Mr. Wallop has given you an an-
wcr, I must stand by that.
X. H. S. Is it your lordships pleasure that we
adjourn ?
Lards. Ay, Ay.
X. H. S. This House is adjourned into the
Parliament Chamber.
Then the Lords returned to their House in
their order, and the committee of Commons
staid in their places to attend their resolutions.
Ii\ an hour's time, the Lords returned, and
my Lord High Steward being seated upon the
Wool-pack, silence was proclaimed.
X. M. S. My lord Stafford, my lordi,since
they have been withdrawn, have considered of
one point, of that point, chiefly which your lord-
ship did move, touching the necessity of two
witnesses to every overt- act as evidence of
High-Treason, that is the point you have desired
counsel to speak to, and that is the point-your
counsel desired to know whether it was a doubtful
or debatable point before they would argue it ;
and hereupon my lords did withdraw to con-
sider it. And my lords have directed, That att
the judges that assist than, and are here in joor
1397] STATE TRIALS, 52 CtutLE*
lordship's presence and hearing,* should de-
liver their Opinions, whether it be doubtful and
disputable or no.
[Then all the Judges consulted privately* to-
gether, and afterwards gave in their Opinions
seriatim, beginning with the Lord Chief-Justice
Nonh, the Lord Chief- Jostice Scrocgs being
absent.] " °
L. C. J. North. My lords, I do here deliver
my opinion, and am clear in it, That if there be
several overt-acts or facts which are evidences
of the same treason, if there be one witness to
prove one such overt-act at one time, and ano-
ther witnesrto prove another overt-act at ano-
ther time, both the acts being evidences of .the
same treason, these are two sufficient witnesses
of that treason, and will maintain an iodict-
ment or an impeachment of treason. I never
knew any doubt made of it in any inferior
court of justice, and I have known it often
resolved, f
L. C. B. Montague. My lords, where ever
treason is to be proved, to every overt-act, two
witnesses, as I conceive, are not required. If
so be, there are two witnesses to several overt-
acts, conducing to a proof of the same treason,
I think they are witnesses in the judgment of
the law, such as the statute requires.
Mr. Justice Windham. I am of the same
opinion with my lord chief justice North, and
my lord chief-baron, That if there be several
overt-acts, done at several times, tending to the
, same treason, these several acts, being severally
proved by several credible witnesses, though
but by one witness at each time to each act,
the said several acts, being evidences of the
same treason, these are sufficient witnesses of
that treason so proved, and will maintain an
indictment, or, as I conceive, an impeach-
ment.
Mr. Just. Jones. My lords, if several wit-
nesses speak to the same kind of treason, al-
though they speak to several overt- acts, and
give evidence of several times, the one of them
speaking to one time, and the other to another
time, yet keeping still to the same kind of trea-
son, they are such two witnesses as are required
by the statute of Edward HI. and this I take to
be the constant opinion of the courts below.
Just. Doiben. My lords, I am of the same
opinion, and I know it hath been many times
so resolved : I have been present when Sen-
tehee hath passed upon persons by whom the
same case hath been urged, and it bath been
So resolved. And it hath been moved in West-
minster- hall, and that wa9 the constant opinion
* See the Speech df the same Lord Steward
in answer to a question propounded to him by
lord Danby in the case of lord Cornwallis, and
the Note to that speech; ante, vol. 6.
t See Love's Case, a. i>. 16*51, ante, vol. 5,
p. 43. The sixth point resolved preparatorily
to the Trials of the Regicides, k. d. 1660, ante,
vol. 5, p. 917. East's Pleas of the Crown, eh.
*. s. 63, 64, 65, and the 'cases there cited.
-Ifv&tdititp
(IS2B
of the judges there; particularly m the case of
sir Henry Vane.* It was upon solemn debate
resolved, and divers times it bath been held.
That the same treason may be proved by two
witnesses to several overt^acta, though oac
speak of words or actions that were spoken or
done at one time and in one place, and another
speak of words or actions at another time and
in another place ; these are two good witnesses
iu treason within the intent of the last ; and if
the law were otherwise, it were scarce possible
to convict any man of treason, and therefore I
take it to be very clear.
Just. Raymond. I am of the same opinion,
That where several circumstances are brought
to prove the same treason, one witness to
each of the several circumstances is sufficient ;
and this, I conceive, hath been always the opi-
nion of the judges.
Baron Atkins. My lords, I am of the same
opinion. That there must be two witnesses it
the case of treason f is a matter without ques-
tion ; but there are several overt-acts that may
contribute to the effecting of that treason. If a
man designs to kill the king, and buys powder
at one place at one time, and a pistol at another
place at another time, and promises a reward to
one to assist him to do the thing at a third
place and a third time; these are several
overt-acts: But if the law requires that each
be proved by two witnesses, 1 do not well sea
how any man can be convicted of treason. la
the case of sir Henry Vane, and others, ibis
very question was started, but was not thought
worthy of debate : If it should be otherwise, it
would touch the judgments which have been
given upon this kind of proof ; and what would
the consequence of that be, but that those per-
sons who were executed upon those judgments
have suffered illegally ? and therefore I am of
opinion, that it is not requisite there should be
two witnesses to every overt-act.
Baron Gregory. My lords, I am of the same
opinion; it is treason to conspire the death
of the king : Now each of the witnesses is a
witness to prove that treason ; the one says,
he offered him such a reward, in such a place ;
that is one witness to prove nfat be conspired
the death of the king ; and another says, that
he offered him such a reward in another place ;
that is another witness Jthat he conspired the
death of the king. For the party is not indicted
upon one particular overt-act, bnt be is indicted
for treason, in conspiring the death of the king;
and each of the witnesses being to prove that,
though they speak to several acts, they are
gond witnesses according to the law.
Baron Weston. My lords, I am of the sanse
opinion with my learned brethren «ht> have
spoke before him.
Jost. Charlton. My lords, I am of the same
opinion ; and I think truly it wOuM be the ea-
siest matter for a man to commit treason, and
escape without questioning, if it shosdd fca
otherwise. But this is the first time that I have
* See vol 6, p. HP.
i+*t.
.*•«•
1689J STATE TRIALS, 32 CflAiUS IL 1680.— lfa* Pqrish Lord*. [1530
r
heard it hath been made ft Question, that to
the sasue treason there lmfetbe two witnesses to
every overt-act. It hath been adjudged always
according to the law, that to pro?e treason there
mutt be two witnesses, but to an overt-act
there needs but one.
X. H. 8. My lord Stafford, by the uniform
opinion of ail ray lords the judges, there is no
colour to doubt the law in that point which you
desire to argue } so that as to that point you
must rest satisfied, you are not to have counsel
to speak to it : for the rest, I have no commis-
sion yet from my lords to say any thing.
L. Staff] Will your lordship give me leave to
say one thing to what I have heard ? I would
answer, if I might, only to one Judge ; I think
they call him judge Atkins.
L. H. 8. Your lordship may say what you
please.
L. Staff. My lords, I hear a strange position,
I never heard the like before in my life; and
it is what he said : if I am hi the wrong, I beg
your lordships pardon, and his too. lie told
your lordships the reason' why the law should
be so, was because else a great many of those
persons that have already been executed, must
have been acknowledged Unjustly cut off and put
to death ; that is an argument I hope will not
weigh with your lordships or any body $ for it
is better that a thousand persons that are guilty
should escape than that one innocent person
should die •; much more then, that it should not
j.i >-
^~L.
* " All presumptive evidence of felony" says
Blacksteae, (Comtn. Book 4. chap. 27. vol. 4.
p. 858) " should be admitted cautiously j for the
law holds, that it is better that ten guilty per-
sons escape, than that one innocent suffer."
This maxim is contested in the " Principles
of Moral and Political Philosophy" of the late
archdeacon Pfcley (see vol. ?. p. 310, of that
work) but it has jutt now (June a. d. 1810)
beet* vindicated by sir Samuel Roiniily with
admirable clearness and strength of argument
and with equal power of eloquence. The
objections of Paley are fairly and fully stated,
and answered, as follows :
" The maxim that it is ' better for ten guilty
* persons to escape than for one innocent man
< to suffer,' is mentioned with approbation by
Mr. Justice Blackstone, but is contested by Dr.
Paley. ' If by better/ he says, ' be meant that
* it is more for the public advantage, the pro-
* position I think cannot be maintained. The
* security of civil life, which is essential to the
* value and enjoyment of every blessing it con-
* tains, and the interruption of which is fbl-
< lowed by universal misery and confusion, is
' protected chiefly by the dread of punish-
' meat.9 By the dread of punishment, it is true,
but of punishment as a consequence of guilt,
not of punishment falling indiscriminately on
those who have not, and on those who have,
provoked it by their crimes. The security of civil
life is undoubtedly the first object of all penal
laws ; but by nothing Can that security he more
grievously huetrapted than by the innocent suf-
be declared, that such a judgment was notweU
given.
L. H. 8. Look you, my lord, where many*
reasons are given, it is easy to make a reply to
fering for the crimes of the guilty. It should seem
from the animadversions of Dr. Paley, that he
imagined that those who have adopted this
maxim, treat the escape of ten guilty persons
as a trivial ill, whereas, they deem it an evil of
very great magnitude, but yet one less destruc-
tive of the security and happiness of the com-
munity, than that one ionocent man should be
put to death with the forms and solemnities of
justice.
" « The misfortune/ continues Dr. Paley,1 of
* an individual, for such may the suffering*, or
' even the death .of an innocent person be call-
' ed, when they are occasioned by no evil in-
' tention, cannot be placed in competition with
' this object.' He here speaks of the sufferings
and privations endured by the victim, as if they
were the only evils resulting from the punish-
ment of the innocent. He overlooks entirely
the mischiefs which arise from the consideration
that the most perfect innocence,\and the most
implicit submission to the laws cannot afford
security to those who possess the one, and prac-
tise'the other* He leaves altogether out of his
consideration that disrespect for the tribunals
which is the necessary consequence of so ter-
rible a failore ftftie administration of justice.
He does not reflect how much the effect of ex-
ample must be weakened by men being taught
from what they have themselves witnessed,
that the wretch, whom they see consigned to
punishment, may be in the highest degree unfor-
tunate, and in no degree guilty. He does not
take into his account the hopes which the pu-
nishment of an innocent man ever affords to
the guilty, by placing in so striking a point of
view, the fallibility of our tribunals ; and by
shewing how uncertain it is that punishment
will be the consequence of guilt. Could the
escape of ten of the most desperate crimi-
nals have ever produced as much mischief
to society, as did the public executions of
Calas, of D'Anglade, or of Lebrun ? T he state
of insecurity in which men were placed hy some
of these fatal errors in the administration of
justice in France, is Btrongty exemplified hy the
saying of a man of considerable eminence in
that country, who declared, that if lie were
accused of stealing the towers of Notre Dame,
he would consult his safety hy flight rather
than risque the event of a trial, though tl*e
crime imputed to him was manifestly impossible.
" Dr. Paley goes on to observe,* That codrta
' of justice should not he deterred from the ap-
' plication of tlieir own rales of adjudication,
' by every suspicion of danger, or by tl»e mere
' possibility of confounding the innocent with
' the guilty/ And in this observation every
body must agree with him. If c««rts of justice
were never to inflict punishment wheie there
was a possibility of the accused being innocent.
no pttmahment would in aay case be inflicted,
1531] STATE TRIALS, 3* Chailes II, 16S0.— Proceedings again* the [15M
one of the least among many ; that was one
reason given, but the true reason is this : If the
law were otherwise, there would he great safety
m conspiring the death of the king.
■■I ■ n . ii ■ — ■ . i . .
In those instances in which the proof of guilt
seems to he most complete, the utmost that
can be truly affirmed of it is, that it amounts
to a very high probability: no truth, that de-
pends upon human testimony, con ever be pro-
perly said to be demonstrated. Human wit-
nesses may utter a falsehood, or may be de-
ceived. Even where there have been a num-
ber of cencurrent and unconnected, circum-
stances, which have appeared inexplicable
upon any hypothesis but that of the accused
being guilty, it has yet sometimes been made
evident that he was innocent. Nay, in some
instances where men have borne evidence
against themselves, and have made a spontane-
ous confession of the crimes imputed to them,
net only they were not, but they could not be
guilty, the crimes confessed being impossible.
With the wisest laws, and the most perfect ad-
ministration of them, the innocent may some-
times be doomed to suffer the fate of the guilty,
for it were vain to hope, that from any human
institution, all error can be excluded. Yet
these are considerations which are calculated
very strongly to impress upon courts of justice,
not indeed that they ' should be deterred from
/ the application of their own rules of adjudica-
' tion,* but that they should use the utmost
care and circumspection in the application of
those rules ; that in a state of things where they
are so liable to error, they cannot be too anx-
ious to guard against it, and that if it be a great
public evil', as it undoubtedly is, that the guilty
should escape, it is a public evil of much grea-
ter magnitude, that the innocent should suffer.
It should be recollected too, that the object of
penal laws, is the protection and security of the
innocent ; that the punishment of the guilty is
resorted to only as the means of attaining that
object. When, therefore, the guilty escape,
the law has merely failed of its intended effect ;
it has done no good, indeed, but it has done
no harm. But when the innocent become the
victims of the law, the law is not merely ineffi-
cient, it does net merely fail of accomplishing
its intended object, it injures the persons it was
meant to protect, it creates the -very evil it was
to cure, and destroys the security it was made
to preserve.
" ' They ought rather,' continues Paley, ' to
* reflect, that he who falls by a mistaken seo-
' tence, may be considered as falling for his
'country, whilst he suffers under the operation
* of those rules, by the general effect and ten-
4 dency of which the welfare of the community is
< maintained and upheld.? Nothing is more
easy than thus to philosophize and act the pa-
triot for others, and to arm ourselves with topics
•f consolation, and reasons for enduring with
fortitude the evils to which, not ourselves, but
others are exposed. I doubt, however, very
UMftch, whether this it attended with any salu-
L. Staff. My lords, I say nothing further as
to the rest, but this stuck with me. I am sorry
to hear a Judge should say any such thing ; and
thoogh I am in such a weak and disturbed con-
■ ■ - . i. ■ ■ ■ ..■•.. ■■ ■■
tary effects. Instead of endeavouring thus to
extenuate and to reconcile to the minds of those
who sit in judgment upon their fellow-crea-
tures so terrible a calamity as a mistake in
judicature to the injury of the innocent, it
would surely be a wiser part to set before their
eyes all the consequences of so ratal an error
in their strong but real colours. To represent
to them, that of all the evils which can befall a
virtuous man, the very greatest is to be con-
demned and to suffer a public punishment as if
he were guilty. To see all his hopes and ex-
pectations frustrated; all the prospects ia
which he is indulging, and the pursuits which
he is following, for the benefit, perhaps, of
those who are dearer to him than himself,
brought to a sudden close; tc be torn from the
midst of his family ; to witness the affliction
they suffer; and to anticipate the still deeper
affliction that awaits them : not to have eren
the sad consolation of being pitied; to see him-
self branded with public ignominy ; to leave a
name which will excite only horror or disgust;
to think that the children be leaves behind
him, must, when they recal their father's me-
mory, hang down their beads with shame; to
know that even if at some distant time it should
chance that the truth should be made evident,
and that justice should be done to his name,
still that his blood will have been shed uselessly
for mankind, that his melancholy story will
serve wherever it is told, only to excite alarm
in the bosoms of the best members of socictv,
and to encourage the speculations for evading
the law, in which wicked ineu may indulge.
"Let us represent to ourselves the judges who
condemned Calas to die, apologizing for their
conduct with the reasoning of Paley. Admit*
ting that it was a great misfortune to the indi-
vidual, but insisting that it was none to the
public, and that even to the individual the mis-
fortune was greatly alleviated by the reflection,
that his example would tend to deter parents ia
future from embruing their hands in the blood
of their children, and that in his instance the
sufferings of the innocent would prevent the
crimes of those who had a propensity to guilt,
With what horror and disgust would not every
well formed mind shrink from such a defence !
" When we are weighing the evil of the pu-
nishment of one innocent man against that of
the impunity of ten who are guilty, we ought
to reflect, that the suffering of the innocent it
generally attended in the particular instance
with the escape of the guilty. Instance* have,
indeed, occurred like that which I have already
mentioned of Calas, where a man has been of-
fered up as a sacrifice to the laws, though the
laws had never been violated : where the tri-
bunals have committed the double mistake of
supposing a crime where none had been com-
mitted, and of finding a criminal who* noon
1533]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles IL iGSO.—fVt* Popuh Lords.
[1584
ditioo, I assure yoor lordships my blood rises
at it.
L. H. S. Is it yoar lordships pleasure that
we shooid adjourn ?
Lords. Ay, ay.
L. H. S. Then this House is adjourned into
the Parliament-chamber.
[The Lords withdrew in their order, and the
committee of Commons went back to their
House.] •
— , ■■
could exist. These, however, are very gross,
and therefore very rare examples of judicial
error. In most cases the crime is ascertained,
and to discover the author of it is all that re-
mains for investigation ; and iu every such case,
if there follow an etroneous conviction, a two-
fold evil must be incurred, the escape of the
fuilty, as well as the suffering of the innocent,
'erhaps amidst the crowd of those who are
gazing upon the supposed criminal, when he is
led out to execution, may be lurking the real
murderer, who, while he contemplates the fate
of the wretch before lain, reflects with scorn
upon the imbecility of the law, and becomes
snore hardened, and derives more confidence in
the dangerous career upon which he has en-
tered/' Observations on the Criminal Law of
England, &c. by sir Samuel Uomiily, Note D.
* I will insert the following passage from
Mrs. Macaulay respecting this trial, because it
furnishes a lively specimen of the flippancy and
other qualities which characterise her work, and
because it is in some respects superior to the
matter which ordinarily flows from her pen.
. " Humanity was again disgraced by the cla-
mours and outrage of the people during the
k trial of this unfortunate nobleman: he was
more than once thrown into confusion on the
occasion ; yet, on the fifth day, notwithstanding
the fatigues and mortifications he had under-
gone, he so far recovered himself as to sum up
the whole case, as to fact and argument, in a
manner calculated even to soften the obdurate
temper of party, and to bring conviction to
every mind not strongly tinctured with preju-
dice. After pleading his age, his want of en-
do w menu, his exhausted spirits and strength
in his long trial, in consideration of which he
koped their lordships who were both his judges
and counsel, would pardon the many defects
which he must needs commit ; he recapitulated
the whole- evidence, as well, he said, as -his
weak memory and discomposed condition would
permit ; he reminded the lords of the several
instances wherein he had proved the witnesses
forsworn ; be recounted the various contra-
dictions ; he made observations on the moral
impossibilities, and absurdities, as to divers
parts of their evidence; and inferred from
thence, that those who will forswear themselves
in one thing, are not to be credited in any. He
insisted on the infamy of the witnesses, and
the wickedness of their lives; he inculcated
tjieir farmer beggary, compared to the encou-
Mr. Speaker resumed the chair.
A Message was sent from the Lords by sit
Timothy Baldwyn and sir Samuel Clarke.
Mr. Speaker, The Lords have sent us to ac-
quaint this House, that they have ordered Wil-
liam viscount Stafford to be brought again to
the bar in Westminster-ball, on Monday-morn-
ing next at ten of the clock.
After which, the House of Commons ad-
journed to eight of the clock on Monday morn-
ing.
ragement, caresses, applause, and allurement!
of gain, which they had found in their new"
employment : he alleged their subornation to
make good their forgeries, and their bare oaths,
without any corroborating circumstance, but
what depeuded on the same oaths : he repre-
sented, that during a course of forty years he
had, through many difficulties and losses, still
maintained his loyalty; and was it credible
that now, in his old age, easy in his circum-
stances, but dispirited by infirmities, he should
belie the past tenor of his life, and engage in
hazardous undertakings against his royal master,
from whom he had never received other than
kind treatment. Having thus summed up his
defence, the prisoner proceeded to propose cer-
tain points, or doubts, in law, which occurred
in his case, concerning the manner of the im-
peachment, and the continuance of it from
parliament to parliament. Whether the in-
dictment contained an overt-act necessary to
a conviction of treason ? Whether men, who
swear for money ought to be credited or ad-
mitted as witnesses? Whether the Plot was as
yet legally proved ? And whether, there being
but one particular witness to any one particular
point, such an evidence be sufficient in law ?
" The unequal contest in which the prisoner
was engaged, the unexpected manner in which
he had acquitted himself, bis # great age, his
long confinement, and the present harrassed
state of his mind, were circumstances of com-
miseration which held in suspence the resent-
ments of party, the incentives of policy, and
the zeal of bigotry, and for a while softened
the whole assembly into a generous sympathy,
when sir William Jones resumed the evidence
against the prisoner with such force, art, and
address, that all the baneful passions were
again inflamed, and a violent indignation suc-
ceeded the v momentary tenderness. It is an
avowed truth, that the consciences of lawyers
are governed by rules peculiar to themselves,
and entirely opposite to the ideas which prevail
with honest men of other professions; a circum-
stance which, though of a very important na-
ture, has little weight with courts of judicature;
every judgment is directed by the bench or the
bar, and the triumph gained by sir William.
Jones is a striking instance amongst a variety
of others, which disgrace our annals, that trials
at law are often mere mockery of justice; and
that the depriving an individual, pleading for
his life, of the advantage of having the last
word with the court, is in reality, the depriving
1535] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. mo.—Procxdm§$ agabut the [ISM
JL H. & Read my lord Stafford's Petition.
To the Right Hon. the Lords in Parliament as-
sembled, the humble Petition of William
viscount Stafford.
The Sixth Dat.
Monday, December 6th, 1680.
About the hour of eleven in the morning,
the Lords being adjourned into Westminster-
kail, going thither in their former order into the
court there erected ; and Mr. Speaker having
left the chair, the committee of Commons were
seated as before.
The court being sat, proclamation for **-
leuce was made, and the. lieutenant com-
manded to bring his prisoner to the bar ; which
feeing done, the Lord High-Steward began.
him of every advantage naturally attendant on
that much Coasted part of the English consti-
tution, the trial by juries and peers,
" On the following point of law, whether
two witnesses were required to entry overt act,
stie Lords called upon tike Judges for tbeif opi-
nion, and the w hole Bench, led by the Lord
Chief Justice North, gate it against the pri-
soner, aad declared, that if there be several
•vert-acts, which aw evidences of the same
treason, though proved by different witnesses,
k is sufficient to maintain an indictment or im-
peachment. Whether the judges, in giving
this opinion, were actuated by motives very
imprudently acknowledged by baron Atkins,
» the course of -the trial, viz. that the evidenoe
of one witness to one overt-act, ought to be
deemed sufficient in the prisoner's case, be-
cause if it was not, it would prove that those
persons who 'bad already suffered, bad suffered
illegally; or whether, with greater probability,
they were desirous of making the crowo more
formidable, by adding to the great advantages
which it already had in trials of treason, certain
it i<, that the Lords, in giving way to this de-
cision, destroyed all tl»e useful and benign pur-
poses of the act of the 25th of Edward 3d, and
subjected the life and property of every im-
prudent man to the vengeance of the court.
All the other objections were over-ruled by
the Lords, and on the seventh Hay from the
commencement of the trial, the Commons at-
tended in their places, the court, by a majority
of twenty-four voices, gave sentence against
the prisoner, who received the fatal verdict
with becoming resignation — " God's holy name
be praised!*' was the only exclamation he ut-
tered; but when he was told by the High
Steward, that the peers would intercede with
the king for remitting the more cruel, and what
is termed tlie most ignominious parts of his
sentence, hanging and quartering, nature for
one moment prevailed, and a burst cti' tears
shewed the lively sense he had of the injustice
of the sentence : however, be excused the weak-
ness, by politely saying, that he was moved l»v
their lordships goodness, not by any terror <lf .
Chert fate which he was to suffer. !
4< Undoubtedly, more -from a jealousy of the
exertion of the prerogative, than from any |ter-
sonal rancour, the sheriffs Bethel and Cornish,
Who were suspected of entertaining Republican
principles, started a doubt of the king's power
" HomUy shewing unto your lordships ; Tkat
he hath some things to osier uncoyoar lostUhif*
in order to clear himself, which be hopetb to
do. You/ petitioner dotfe therefore, with all hu-
mility, most humbly beseech your lordships to
give him leave to offer some things unto your
lordships consideration, And your petitioner
shall ever pray, &c. " 6taf*oip."
of exercising this small act of lenity ; and lord
Russel, a man eminent for his virtue and ho*
inanity, actuated by the same zeal tor preserr-
ing popular privileges, seconded, in the loner
House, the scruple of the sheriffs : however, as
the peers bad pronounced it superfluous, the
Commons acquiesced and returned an answer,
That they were content that tbe sherins should
execute William late viscouut Stafford, by le-
vering bis bead from his body.
" As Stafford had been treated with grrst
negleot by the Court, bad often been in oppo-
sition, and was formerly connected with lord
Shaftesbury in schemes for tbe dissolution of
the first parliament, it might be supposed (Ut
oo these reasons lie would have found mere
favour with the Commons than any [other] of
the Five Lords who bad been accused of the
conspiracy, and that he would have been tt
least the last victim ; but tbe party, confiding
iu that pusillanimity which commonly attends
old age aud mean parts, expected that tbe
hopes of a pardon would produce some disco-
veries which would ascertain, beyond a doubt,
the reality of the Hot, and more particularly
afreet the duke of York . A nd Stafford, having
let fall, that he bad somewhat to communicate
which might support the Exclusion Bill, pro-
vided it would be the means of saving his life,
he was called before the House of Peers, where
he discovered many schemes which had bees
laid by himself and others, for procuring a to*
lerarion to the Papists ; but on his naming tbe
earl of Shaftesbury among those who were -con-
cerned in these schemes, be was in a great
hurry ordered to withdraw ; a period was pot
to the examination, and Stafford now prepared
himself for death wtth an intrepidity which even
innocence and integrity, unassisted by a natu-
ral fi Finn ess of mind, or an especial support
from divine mercy, cannot always command.
When going to execution, he called for a cloak
to defend hitn from the rigour of the season,
and said, " Perhaps 1 may shake with cold,
but I trust in God, not with fe*r.v Of ail
those thousands of pe >ple winch a sarai*
curi >sitv h*ri brought togetiter on this awnil
occasion, not a fare appeared more *erene
or cruarful than was iht countenance of the
pcisoner ; who, when mounted on tbe scs£
fold, continued with reiterated ©sseveratiotfS
ro moke protestations of bin innocence : be
solemnly disavowed ali th<>se immoral pria*
3
1537]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Cbaklm II. \6tQ.— Five Pqitk Lord*.
[15Sf
L. J5F. 5. My lord Stafford* my lords have i
been willing, upon your petition, to come sod
bear what that is that your lordship hath to offer:
And they would know whether it be a matter of
fact, or matter of law. For your lordships
most know, that as to witnesses the process is
closed.
ciples which, on the authority of the practice
ofthe Church of Rome, at different times have,
without distinction, been ascribed to the whole
body of the Papists; he mentioned the wit-
nesses with a becoming charity: " And he
hoped/9 he said, " that the time was now ap-
proaching, that truth would be brought to
light; and that the world would be acquainted
with his innocence, and what injury he had
sustained." That fury and rage of the popu-
lace which had appeared at Stafford** trial and
condemnation, was now melted into tender-
ness and 'fruitless tears : they assented to these
protestations, which he frequently repeated, of
Sis innocence, by respectful bows and expres-
sions which manifested their belief and their
compassion : " We believe you, my lord; God
bless you, my lord.7* The Executioner also,
affected with the general sympathy, three times
lifted up the axe before he could execute the
fatal office ; and a deep sigh accompanied the
stroke which put a final end t# the cares and
the sufferings of the prisoner. The multitude,
struck with pity and remorse, beheld, in mourn-
ful silence, the bleeding head exposed at the four
corners of rhe scaffold, with the usual warning
cry of, ' * This is the head of a traitor." And
thus by a sudden revolution in the minds of
the populace; the fate of this once hated popish
conspirator, was more solemnly lamented than
that of any one of the Protestant or Patriot
martyrs, who had suffered from the first period
ofthe monarchy to the present tiroes.
" It is worthy observation, that in the division '
ofthe peers, four of lord Stafford's own family,
viz. the earls of Carlisle, Berkshire, and Suf-
folk, and the lord Howard of Esc rick, con-
demned him, whilst he was absolved by the
lords Lucas and Holies, who were eminent for
their zeal against popery; that the ministry
were equally divided on this point, as on th*
Bill of Exclusion ; that the king's great favo-
rite and confident, the duke of Lauderdale,
was on the rigorous side of the question, with
the Lord Privy-Seal, Anglesea; the Lord Pre-
sident, Radnor ; and the Lord High Steward,
Nottingham ; who, moreover, declared his fairh
in the Plot in the strongest terms ; that the
duchess of Portsmouth, in the rage of her dis-
appointment, on the ill success of the Exclusion
Bill, attended the trial, dealing sweet- meats
and smiles among his prosecutors; and that
the king, who had refused to withdraw bis
countenance from that odious minister, Lauder-
dale, on the repeated instances of his Scotch
subjects, and the repeated addresses of the
English parliament, should, without a struggle,
or any seeming reluctance, deliver up a faithful
subject to the mistaken prejudices of a party,
VOL. VII, .
L. Stnffi I do not pretend any more wiu
nesses, my lords.
X. IT. §. Then, my lord, what is it that you
would say?
L. Staff. My lords I did yesterday receive
an order from your lordships ; and upon that
and some other things that I have to trouble
at the same time that he declared to bis in-
timates, that he did not believe oue word of
the Plot, or that any conspiracy of any kind
had been formed against him.
" If the execution of Stafford gratified the
resentment of the exclusionists, it tended very
much to weaken their authority with the peo-
ple : as there is nothing more variable than the
sentiments of the multitude, so there are no
extremes so opposite that they will not, in their
turns, embrace. Their natural passions, un-
tamed by cultivation, are easily roused to the
highest point of frenzy; and the transition
from the extreme of hatred to the extreme of
sympathy, is often as sudden as the effects are
violent. The leaders of the popular party, not
aware of this circumstance, had surfeited, bj
their too frequent executions, the eager appe-
tite of the people, whose belief is always more'
founded on humour than rational conviction*
After the first executions, every blood-letting,
according to Burnet, lowered the heat of the
nation into a mortal coldness; and the affect-
ing scene of Stafford's sufferings, by exciting a
genera] commiseration, turned so strongly the
tide of prejudice, that the prelatical party,
who now made no scruple to avow, that they
thought the church was in less danger from the
Papists than from the Presbyterians, on ac-
count of the greater popularity of the latter,
were successful in the circulating the opinion,
that there never had been any plot or conspi-
racy among the Papists; that the whole was
the forgery of the Presbyterians ; and that it
was done with the design of ruining the church
and monarchy. The venal pen of sir Roger
l'Est range was employed to prove that moral
impossibility of sir Edmundbury Godfrey's hav-
ing been his own murderer, and some of the
most virulent of the party made no scruple to
lay it to the charge of those who were the
warmest prosecutors of the Plot, which, it must
be acknowledged, was carried on by such vio-
lent and unjust proceedings, as can admit of
no excuse or palliation, and which served as
examples to take away as many innocent lives,*
among the Protestants, as had suffered among
the Papists."
Something like the speech of lord Stafford,
about his shaking* is reported to have occurred
at the execution of M. Badly, at Paris. " 'fa
as peur Bailly," said a by-sunder, who* ob-
served him to shiver, " Non/v replied the pri-
soner, " mais j'ai fro id."
The reason assigned for the opinion in fti*
vour of the sufficiency of one witness to one
overt-act, and another to another overt-act of
the same species of treason, viz. " otherwise)
5F
1589) STATE TRIALS, 32 Cbablju II. 1 6$0.— Proceedings against the [1540
your lordships with, I did petition for this fa-
vour which l humbly thank jour lordships for
J panting. If I bo impertinent, I ihall beg tout
ordships pardon, and I hope you will be pleas-
ed to consider mi weakness at all tiroes, espe-
cially in this condition I am now in ; but I hope by
jour lordships favour to be in a happier one quick-
ly. For the matters of proof, I snail offer not a
tittle; bat, my lords, ibis Order which I re-
ceived does say, That the Lords assembled in
parliament have ordered, that my counsel shall
not be heard touching the Continuance of Im-
peachments from Parliament to Parliament :
But I hope, my lords, you will please, without
offence, to let me offer to your lordships my
own conceptions about it ; which I shall do as
briefly as I can.
My lords, I do not conceive by this Order,
that your lordships say it does or does not
continue ; you have given no judgment, as I
know of, in it ; when you have, I shall acqui-
esce: But I hope your lordships will resolve
that it does nor. And, my loads, my reasons
for it are two : The first is, because one of the
managers for the House of Commons, as I take
it, Sir W. Jones, said these words, and your
lordships may remember them, ' That if there
* were no such precedent, your lordships would
no government could be safe if traitors had but
craft equal to their villainy," (see Fost. 237)
does not seem to be satisfactory. Considera-
tions of that kind are indeed intitled to very
great influence in regulating the proceedings of
legislators as to what laws should be enacted,
but they are wholly impertinent to the con-
struction of laws which have been already
enacted. This construction of the stat. 1 E. 6.
c 12. and 5 and 6 Ed. 6. c. 11, appears not to
have been established till this case of lord
Stafford. (See Foster, 23«, 237). Never-
theless, it seems to be the legitimate and fair
construction of those statutes, and in no respect
to impugn that most wholesome rule which is
stated by. lord Bacon. (Maxims, Regula 12).
' Penal Statutes shall not be construed by
equity/
As to the king's power of altering the exe-
cution of a sentence, lord Bacon says, " In
treason it hath been an ancient use and favour
Jroat the kings of this realm to pardon the exe-
cution of hanging, drawing, and quartering,
and to make warrant for their beheading."
Preparation toward the Union of the Laws of
England and Scotland, vol. 3, of his works,
p. 408, 4to ed. of 1778.
" In felony, the corporal punishment is by
hanging, and it is doubtful whether the king
may turn it into beheading in the case of a peer
or other person of dignity, because in treason
the striking off the head is part of the judg-
ment, and so the king pardoneth the rest; but
in felony, it is no part of the judgment, and the
Jung cannot alter the execution of law, yet pre-
cedents have beeu both ways." Preparation
toward* the Union of the Laws of England and
Scotland; vol. 3, of his works, p. 501.
1
' make a precedent :' Whether too will or w,
that I most submit to your lordships ; but Uvea
there is none yet. The next thing is, my lords,
this, Whether an Impeachment be to be pro-
secuted in parliament without an Iodictmeat ?
This, my lords, I humbly hope your lordship
are resolved it ought not. For I see not hoe
truly, my lords, it can be ; by the little read*
ing which I have had in the law, I never found
any man prosecuted in a legal way, but by an
indictmeut. I may be mistaken, and lbcgjopr
lordships pardon for troubling you with my mis-
takes ; but r never read of any that were pro*
secuted upon an Impeachment ? so then, the
legal usual word being Indictment, I hope jov
lordships will not alter the form ; for I hop
you will keep that great maxim of yoor noble
ancestors, ' Nolumus Leges Aogliaj mutait*:
And whether this be a change of the law or do,
Ltubmit it to your lordships.
A third thing is this ; Your lordships do not
think fit that my counsel shall plead to that
point, Whether words do amount to an overt*
act ; for hearing my counsel to that likewise I
do not pretend : But I hope your lordship
will give me leave to say this, I never heard
that words did amount to an overt-act: if yoor
lordships judge otherwise, I submit ; but til
then, 1 hope it shall not conclude me.
There are some other points which Ididoftr
to your lordships, and I numbly beseech too to
know, whether my counsel shall be heard to
them. It is true, one of them, which was, Whe-
ther two witnesses iu several places did amount
to a legal testimouy or no, your lordships did sot
declare one way or another : If you say joa ac-
quiesce in the opinion of the judges, I must sub-
mit ; but till judgment is given, I beseech yoor
lordships to give me leave to tell you my weak
thought about it. I did not hear what the
Judges said all of them, but as I apprehend,
tbey were all of one opinion ; It is true, one of
them that spoke last, I think it was judge At-
kins, did say it did amount to a legal testimony
because ebe those juries that have foundsone
guilty upon the same short evidence should he
perjured; but if this were not so, then upon
the same grounds, under your lordships fa-
vour those juries that acquitted some upon sad
testimony were perjured : But I must beliere
it to be otherwise till your lordships have de-
clared it as jour opinion ; for that reason wiO
not hold ; for the same reason will be for the
perjuring the one, as for the perjuring the other.
And the same juries, for the most part, tried
those that were found guilty, and those that
were acquitted.
L. R.8. Is this all your lordship wfll please
to say?
L. Staff. No, my lords, if you would give me
leave, I would trouble you a little further; if
it were an offence I would not say a word. My
lords, I do conceive I~*m not concerned m the
general Wot of the papbhy for I am not proved
to he so, and w»»«as*"a*T«ay be in my<d(*
I conceivef " re is of hearsay, I
hope your upon that, W
154 1 3 STATE TRIALS, SSXfeoLav
upon what is proved ' secundum allegata at
* probata/ and that Common Fame will con-
demn no mail ; if it do, then no man is safe ;
but I must say, there is not ona word of proof
offered that I am a papist.
I hope, my lords, 1 have cleared myself to
your lordships, and made my innoceucy appear,
by making appear the perjury of the witnesses,
sm<J the faisbood of those tilings they said
Against me. Against I*ugdale I have proved
it by two of his own witnesses; the one was
£ld# the woman that swore for him, That he
took tip a glass of cyder and wished that it
usigUt be his poison if he knew any thing of the
Plot ; the other was Whitby, who says, he had
given my lord Aston's father warning long ago
-what a knave he -was. So it is clear. For Dr.
Oates I hope from his contradictions against
himself as well as Elugdale, who does contra-
dict bimself, at one time August, at another
time the latter end of August or the beginning
of September: and I hope your lordships will
give no credit to Oates s testimony ; for he
said before your lordships he had declared all
tie knew, (it is true, I was then accused, but
not for having a commission, as he now swears)
and afterwards he accused the queen ; so here
is Oates against Oates, and Dngdaie against
Dugdale : and for Turbervile, I have proved by
his affidavit, first he swears one thing and then
another ; and the truth of it is, his brother
proved him false in his last oath, that it was
1671, and not 1672.
My lords, It is not my part to make any
question, nor do I, whether a Plot or no Plot ;
for I am not concerned in it : - if what I shall
say now be impertinent, I humbly beg your
lordships .pardon. My lords, I have been by
the most of my friends, at least every one that
came to' me, particularly by my wife and
daughter that is near me, persuaded te teU all
that I knew, and I do here in the presence of
God Almighty declare what I know to be true.
X. H. S. What says my lord ? Speak out.
L. Staff, My lords, I do believe since the
Reformation from the Church of Rome to
(what it is now established) the Church of Eng-
land, those of that religion have had several
wicked and ill designs and Plots : I do believe
they had a design in queen Elizabeth s time,
Bablfhgton's Plot,* (tnat is a long time ago)
how far it was to take away the queen's life I
cannot tell, but a Plot it was: and I do be-
lieve there was another in her time, called earl
of Westmoreland's Plot, wherein there was a
rebellion in the Nocth, for which some fled and
some werl executed, that was a very ill design :
as for those poisonings of her saddle, and the
like, I take them to be but stories.
In king James's time, in the first year of his
reign, there was a wicket) Plot composed by
. actors, some of one religion, some of another ;
" there was my lord Grey, my lord Cobham, *ny
lord Brooke, and other such, ihey were con-
demned all of them ft some fled, as Markham
♦ See vol. 1. p. 1 127. f See vol. 8. p. 62.
typmn
[U43
and fiainbam t those lords and sir Walter Ra-
leigh were reprieved and kept long in the Tower.
But sir Walter Raleigh was afterwards upon
that same judgment beheaded, and the lords
died in the Tower.
My lords, next to that was the execrable
treason that I spoke of at first, the Gun-
powder Treason:* And I protest before Al-
mighty God, 1 did from my infancy detest and
abhor chose men, that were engaged in it ; and
I do think, and always did think the wit of
man nor the devil's malice cannot invent an
excuse for k. For the men concerned, they
all acknowledged it, confessed it, and begged
pardon of the king, and God, and all good men
for it ; that is all I shall say to that now.
My lords, since his majesty's happy restora-/
tiou, I do conceive, and I think I may safely
say it, (for you all know it) he was gracious and
good to all Dissenters, particularly to them of
the Uomish Church ; they had connivance and
indulgence in their private houses ; and I de-
clare to your lordships, I did then say to some
that were too opeu in their worship, that they
did play foul in taking more liberty uj>on them
than was fitting for them to do, and that,
brought the misfortune upon me which I will
not name.
My lords, It was not long ago that your,
lordships at your own bar did allow all the
Dissenters from the Church of England to give
some reasons to your lordships why those laws
that were against them should be repealed, as
well Protestant Dissenters as those of the
Church of Rome, and why they should have
seme kind of toleration; among whom you
did permit those of the Romish religion to aj.-
tear too, I forget their names. And I reroem-.
cr particularly one of the sorts of them, an
Anabaptist I think, did urge for a reason, that
which is a great truth, that they held rebellion
to be the sin of witchcraft; I believe it is as
bad as any sin can be.
My lords, that came to nothing at that time;,
but, my lords, I believe that after that, all of all
religions had meetings amon^ themselves to
endeavour to get that toleration which they
proposed humbly to your lordships ; there I
will never deny, my lords, that my opinion was,
and is, that this kingdom can never be happy
till an act of parliament pass to this effect; it
was my opinion then, and 1 did endeavour it
all I could, that the dissenting Protestants
might have a comprehension, and the other a
toleration : I acknowledge it to be my inten-
tion, and I think it was no ill one ; for if that
be a true copy of the Commons votes which
is in print, there is some such thing designing
there as a comprehension ; and I was of opi-
nion, that it were sufficient that such as were
of the Church of Rome might by act of par-
liament serve God in their own houses, and
privately in their own way, not in public, and
that for it they should pay something to the
king out of their estates, but truly not much ;
See vol. 2. p. 159.
"«"»W^",»
with, I did petition for this fa-
whicu I hambly thank your lordships for
panting. If I b« impertinent, I shall beg toot
lordships pardon, sod I hope jou will be pleas-
ed to consider my weakness at all times, espe-
cially in this condition I am now in ; but I nope by
your lordships favour to be in a happier one quick-
ly. For the matters of proof, I shall offer not a
tittle ; bnt, my lords, ibis Order which I re-
ceived does say, That the Lords assembled in
parliament have ordered, tbat my counsel shall
not be heard touching the Continuance of Im-
peachments from Parliament to Parliament :
Bnt I hope, my lords, you will please, without
offence, to let me offer to yoor lordships my
own conceptions about it ; which I shall do as
briefly as I can.
My lords, I do not conceive by this Order,
that vour lordships say it does or does not
continue ; you have given no judgment, as I
know of, in it ; when you have, I shall acqui-
esce : Hut I hope your lordships will resolve
that it does nor. And, my loads, my reasons
for it are two : The first is, because one of the
managers for the House of Commons, as I take
it, Sir VV. Jones, said these words, and your
lordships may remember them, ' That if there
* were no such precedent, your lordships would
■ «■ ■■ ■ » n ■ ■ ■ ■
no government could be safe if traitors had but
craft equal to their villainy," (see Fost. 237)
does not seem to be satisfactory. Considera-
tions of that kind are indeed in titled to very
great influence in regulating the proceedings of
legislators as to what laws should be enacted,
but they are wholly impertinent to the con-
struction of laws which have been already
enacted. This construction of the stat. 1 E. 6.
c. 12. and 5 and 6 Ed. 6. c. 11, appears not to
have been established til) this case of lor J
Stafford. (See Foster, 836, 237). Never-
theless, it seems to be the legitimate and fair
construction of those statutes, and in no respect
to impugn that most wholesome rule which is
stated by. lord Bacon. (Maxims, Regula 12).
* Penal Statutes shall not be construed by
equity/
As to the king's power of altering the exe-
cution of a sentence, lord Bacon says, " In
treason it hath been an ancient use and favour
from the kings of this realm to pardon the exe-
cution of hanging, drawing, and quartering,
and to mnke warrant for their beheading."
Preparation toward the Union of the Laws of
England and Scotland, vol. 3, of his works,
p. 408, 4to ed. of 1778.
" In felony, the corporal punishment is by
Banging, and it is doubtful whether the king
snay turn it into beheading in the case of a peer
or other person of dignity, because in treason
the striking off the head is part of the judg-
ment, and so the king pardoneth the rest; hut
in felony, it is no part of the judgment, and the
fcing cannot alter the execution of law, yet pre-
cedents have beeu both ways." Preparation
towards the Union of the Laws of Engmnd and
Scotland; vol. 3, of his works, p. 501.
15S9] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chablju II. 1 6$0.— Proceedings agmnsl the [lttO
1 make a precedent :f Whether too will or so,
that I most submit to your lordships ; bat thes
there is none yet. The next thing is, mj lords,
this, Whether an Impeachment be to be pro-
secuted in parliament without an Indictment ?
This, my lords, I humbly hope jour lordships .
are resolved it ought not. For I see not how
truly, my lords, it can be ; by the little read*
ing which I have had in the law, I never found
any man prosecuted in a legal way, but by an
indictment. I may be mistaken, and lbeg jenr
lordships pardon lor troubling you with dj ma-
takes ; but r never read of any that were pro-
secuted upon an Impeachment? so then, the
legal usual word being Indictment, I hops jov
lordships will not alter the form ; for I hops
you win keep that great maxim of jonr ooUe
ancestors, ' Nolumus Leges Aoglias mutiny :
And whether this be a change of tbe law or so,
I -submit it to your lordships.
A third thing is this ; Your lordships do not
think fit that my counsel shall plead to Oat
point, Whether words do amount to an overt-
act; for hearing my counsel to tbat likewise I
do not pretend: But I hope your lordships
will give roe leave to say this, 1 never heard
that words did amount to an overt-act: if yoor
lordships judge otherwise, I submit ; bat til
then, I hope it shall not conclude me.
There are some other points which Ididoftr
to your lordships, and I humbly beseech yoato
know, whether my counsel shall be beard to
them. It is true, one of them, which was,Whe-
tlier two witnesses in several places did aroooot
to a legal testimouy or no, your lordships did sot
declare one way or another : If you say joo ac-
quiesce in tb e opinion of the judges, I must sub-
mit ; but till judgment is given, I beseech pur
lordships to give me leave to tell you my weak
thought about it. I did. not hear what the
Judges said all of them, but as I apprehend,
they were all of one opinion ; It is true, one of
them that spoke last, I think it was judge At-
kins, did say it did amount to a legal testimony
because else those juries that have found sooie
guilty upon the same short evidence should bs
perjured; but if this were not so, theoopoo
the same grounds, under your lordships fa-
vour those juries that acquitted some upon sock
testimony were perjured : But 1 must beliere
it to be otherwise tiH your lordships have da-
clared it as your opinion ; for that reason will
not hold; for the same reason will be for tbe
perjuring the one, as for the perjuring the other.
And tbe same juries, for the most part, tried
those that were found guilty, and those that
were acquitted.
L. fl. S. Is this all your lordship will please
to say?
L. Staff. No, my lords, if you would give me
leave, I would trouble you a little farther; if
it were an offence I would not say a word. My
lords, I do conceive I^m not concerned in lbs
general Plot of tbe papists; for I am not proved,
to he so, and *rh»*—*—**ia*ybe in mjieMi*
I conceive, r -e is of heansvj
hope your' ipon that, I*
1541]
TRIALS, 32.CHASLM IL 1680.— Jfo Jtytf
W&
upon what it proved ' secundum allegata et
« probata,' and that Common Fame will con-
demn no man ; if it do, then no man it safe ;
but I mutt say, there it not ona word of proof
offered that I am a papist.
I hope, my lords, I have cleared myself to
your lordships, and made my innocency appear,
by making appear the perjury of the witnesses,
and the falshood of tliose things they said
against me. Against Dugdale I have proved
it by two of his own witnesses; the one was
£ld, the woman that swore for him, That he
took up a glass of cyder and wished that it
might be his poison if he knew any thing of the
Plot ; the other was Whitby, who says, he had
given my lord Aston's father warning long ago
what a knave he was. So it is clear. For Dr.
Oates I hope from his contradictions against
himself as well as Hugdale, who does contra-
dict himself, at one time August, at another
time the latter end of August or the beginning
of September: and I liope your lordships will
give no credit to Oates's testimony ; for he
said before your lordships he had declared all
fie knew, (it is true, I was then accused, bur
not for having a commission, as he now swears)
and afterwards he accused the queen ; so here
is Oates against Oates, and Dugdaie against
Dugdale : and for Turbervile, I have proved by
his affidavit, first he swears one thing and then
another ; and the truth of it is, his brother
proved him false in liis last oath, that it was
1671, and not 1672.
My lords, It it not my part to make any
question, nor do I, whether a Plot or no Plot ;
for I am not concerned in it : • if what I shall
say now be impertinent, I humbly beg your
lordships pardon. My lords, I have been by
the most of my friends, at least every one that
came to' me, particularly by my wife and
daughter that is near me, persuaded te tell all
that I knew, and I do here in the presence of
God Almighty declare what I know to be true.
X. H. S. What says my lord ? Speak out.
L. Staff. My lords, I do believe since the
Reformation from the Church of Rome to
(what it is now established) the Church of Eng-
land, those of that religion have had several
wicked and ill designs and Plots: I do believe
they had a design in queen Elizabeth's time,
Babbfhgton's Plot,* (that is a long time ago)
how far it was to take away the queen's life 1
cannot tell, but a Plot it was: and I do be-
lieve there was another in her time, called earl
of Westmoreland's Plot, wherein there was a
rebellion in the Notth, for which some fled and
some were executed, that was a very ill design :
as for those poisonings of her saddle, and the
like, I take them to be but stories.
In king James's time, in the first year of his
reign, there was a wicked Plot composed by
actors, some of one religion, some of another ;
there was my lord Grey, my lord Cobham, my
lord Brooke, and other such, ihey were con-
demned all of them rt" some fled, as Markham
* See vol. 1. p. 1 127. f See vol. 8. p. 62.
airi&inbam: those lords and sir Walter Ra-
leigh were reprieved and kept long in the Tower.
But sir Walter Raleigh was afterwards upon
that tame judgment beheaded, and the lords
died in the Tower.
My lords, next to that was the execrable
treason that I spoke of at first, the Gun-
powder Treason :* And I protest before Al-
mighty God, 1 did from my infancy detest and
abhor those men, that were engaged in it ; and
I do think, and always did think the wit of
man nor the devil's malice cannot invent an
excuse for k. For the men concerned, they
all acknowledged it, confessed it, and begged
pardon of the king, and God, and all good men
for it ; that is all I shall say to that now.
^ My lords, since his majesty's happy restora- /
tion, I do conceive, and I think I rany safely
say it, (for you all know it) he was gracious and
good to all Dissenters, particularly to them of
the Romish Church ; they had connivance and
indulgence in their private houses ; and I de-
clare to your lordships, I did then say to tome
that were too opeu in their worship, that they
did play foul in taking more liberty upon them
than was fitting for them to do, and that.
brought the misfortune upon me which I will
not name.
Mv lords, It was not long ago that your
lordships at your own bar did allow all the
Dissenters from the Church of England to give
some reasons to your lordships why those laws
that were against them should be repealed, as
well Protestant Dissenters as tliose of the
Church of Rome, and why they should have,
same kind of toleration; among whom you
did permit those of the Romish religion to ap-
pear too, I forget their names. And I reroem-.
ber particularly one of the sorts of them, an
Anabaptist I think, did urge for a reason, that
which is a great truth, that they held rebellion
to be the sin of witchcraft; 1 believe it is at
bad at any sin can be.
My lords, that came to nothing at that lime;,
but, my lords, I believe that after that, ail of all
religions had meetings amoinj themselves to
endeavour to get that toleration which they
proposed humbly to your lordships ; there I
will never deny, my lords, that my opinion was,
and is, that this kingdom can never be happy
till an act of parliament pass to this effect; it
was my opinion then, and 1 did endeavour it
all I could, that the dissenting Protestants
might have a comprehension, and the other a
toleration : I acknowledge it to be my inten-
tion, and I think it was no ill one ; for if that
be a true cony of the Commons votes which
is in print, there is some such thing designing
there as a comprehension ; and I was of opi-
nion, that it were sufficient that such as were
of the Church of Rome might by act of par-'
liainent serve God in their own bouses, and
privately in their own way, not in public, and
that for it they should pay something to the
king out of their estates, but truly not much ;
* See vol. 2. p. 159.
1589) STATE TRIALS, 32 Cbablju II. 1 6S0.— Proceedings agmst the [1540
your lordships with, I did petition for this fa-
vour which I humbly thank your lordships for
J panting. If I be impertinent, I shall beg tout
ordships pardon, and I hope you will be pleas-
ed to consider my weakness at all times, espe-
cially m this condition I am now in ; but I nope by
your lordships favour to be in a happier one quick-
ly. For the matters of proof, I shall ofler not a
tittle; but, my lords, this Order which I re-
ceived does say, That the Lords assembled iti
parliament have ordered, that my counsel shall
not be heard touching the Continuance of Im-
peachments from Parliament to Parliament :
But I hope, my lords, you will please, without
offence, to let me offer to yoor lordships my
own conceptions about it ; which I shall do as
briefly as I can.
My lords, I do not conceive by this Order,
that your lordships say it does or does not
continue ; you have given no judgment, as I
know of, in it ; when you have, I shall acqui-
esce : Hut I hope your lordships will resolve
that it does nor. And, my loads, my reasons
for it are two : The first is, because one of the
managers for the House of Commons, as I take
it, Sir W. Jones, said these words, and your
lordships may remember them, ' That if there
* were no such precedent, your lordships would
no government could be safe if traitors had but
craft equal to their villainy/' (see Fost. 237)
does not seem to be satisfactory. Considera-
tions of that kind are indeed intitled to very
great influence in regulating the proceedings of
legislators as to what laws should be enacted,
but they are wholly impertinent to the con-
struction of laws which have been already
enacted. This construction of the stat. 1 £. 6.
c. 12. and 5 and 6 Ed. 6. c. 11, appears not to
have been established till this case of lord
Stafford. (See Foster, 236, 237). Never-
theless, it seems to be the legitimate and fair
construction of those statutes, and in no respect
to impugn that most wholesome rule which is
stated by. lord Bacon. (Maxims, Regula 12).
* Penal Statutes shall not be construed by
equity/
As to the king's power of altering the exe-
cution of a sentence, lord Bacon says, " In
treason it hath been an ancient use and favour
from the kings of this reahn to pardon the exe-
cution of hanging, drawing, and quartering,
and to mnke warrant for their beheading/'
Preparation toward the Union of the Laws of
JBngland and Scotland, vol. 3, of hit works,
p. 408, 4to ed. of 1778.
" In felony, the corporal punishment is by
hanging, and it is doubtful whether the king
snay turn it into beheading in the case of a peer
or other person of dignity, because in treason
the striking off the head u part of the judg-
ment, and so the king pardoneth the rest ; hut
in felony, it is no part of the judgment, and the
Jung cannot alter the execution of law, yet pre-
cedents have been both ways." Preparation
towards the Union of the Laws of Engmnd and
Scotland; vol. 3, of his works, p. 501.
1 make a precedent :f Whether you will or no,
that I most submit to your lordships ; bot thea
there is none yet. The next thing is, my lords,
this, Whether an Impeachment be to be pro-
secuted in parliament without an Indictment ?
This, my lords, I humbly hope your lordship
are resolved it ought not. For I ste not bow
truly, my lords, it can be ; by the little read-
ing which I have had in the law, I never (bond
any man prosecuted in a legal way, but by sb
indictmeut. I may be mistaken, and lbeg ronr
lordships pardon for troubling you with my mi»
takes ; but T never read of any that were pro-
secuted upon an Impeachment ? so then, ibe
legal usual word being Indictment, I hops jov
lordships will not alter the form ; for I bopi
you will keep that great maxim of yoor noble
ancestors, ' Nolumus Leges Anglis muttre':
And whether this be a change of tbe law or do,
I-tubmit it to your lordships.
A third thing is this; Your lordships do sot
think fit that my counsel shall plead to that
point, Whether words do amount to an overt-
act ; for hearing my counsel to that likewise I
do not pretend : But I hope your lordship
will give me leave to say this, I never bean
that words did amount to an overt-act : if yoor
lordships judge otherwise, I submit ; but til
then, I hope it shall not conclude me.
There are some other points which I did offer
to your lordships, and I humbly beseech yon to
know, whether my counsel shall be heard id
them. It is true, one of them, which was, Whe-
ther two witnesses in several places did amount
to a legal testimouy or no, your lordships mdaot
declare one way or another : If you say yoa ac-
quiesce in the opinion of the judges, I mustwb-
mit ; but till judgment is given, I beseech yoor
lordships to give me leavo to tell you my weak
thought about it. I did not hear what tfco
Judges said all of them, but as I apprehend,
tbey were all of one opinion ; It is true, one of
them that spoke last, 1 think it was judge At-
kins, did say it did amount to a legal testimony
because ebe those juries that have found sot*
guilty upon the same short evidence should be
perjured ; but if this were not so, then upon
the same grounds, under your lordships fa-
vour those juries that acquitted some upon sues
testimony were perjured : But 1 must beliere
it to be otherwise tiH your lordships have de-
clared it as your opinion ; for that reason will
not hold; for tbe same reason will be for the
perjuring the one, as for the perjuring the other.
And the same juries, for the most part, tried
those that were found guilty, and those that
were acquitted.
L. fi. S. Is this all your lordship will pi**
to say f
L. Staff. No, my lords, if you would fire am
leave, I would trouble you a little farther; u
it were an offence I would not say a word. My
lords, I do conceive I*ntn not concerned in tk
general Plot of tbe papists; for I am not proved
to he so, and whatsojjsjy; may be in my*M
I conceive, or -*eis of hearstv
hope your k ipon that,**
XT
* See vol. 1. p. 1127. f See vol. 8. p. 62.
1541] STATE TRIALS, 32.Ctu*LW IX 1680.— Kw Jtystt Lords. [IMS
upon what is proved ' secundum allegata at
« probata,' and that Common Fame will con-
demn no man ; if it do, then no man is aafe ;
but I must say, there is not one word of proof
offered that I am a papist
I hope, my lords, 1 have cleared myself to
your lordships, and made my innocency appear,
by making appear the perjury of the witnesses,
and the falshood of tl>ose things they said
against me. Against Dugdale I have proved
it by two of his own witnesses; the one was
£ld, the woman that swore for hiun, That he
took up a glass of cyder and wished that it
might be his poison if he knew any thing of the
Plot ; the other was Whitby, who says, he had
given my lord Aston's father warning long ago
what a knave he -was. So it is clear. For I)r.
Oates I hope from his contradictions against
himself as well as Elugdale, who does contra-
dict himself, at one time August, at another
time the latter end of Angust or the beginning
of September: and 1 hope your lordships will
give no credit to Oates's testimony ; lor he
said before your lordships he had declared all
he knew, (it is true, I was then accused, bur
not for baring a commission, as he now swears)
and afterwards he accused the queen ; so here
is Oates against Oates, and Dugdale against
Dugdale : and for Turbervile, I have proved by
his affidavit, first he swears one thing and then
another ; and the truth of it is, his brother
proved him false in liis last oath, that it was
1671, and not 1672.
My lords, It is not my part to make any
question, nor do I, whether a Plot or no Plot ;
fori am not concerned in it: if what I shall
aay now be impertinent, I humbly beg your
lordships pardon. My lords, I have been by
the most of my friends, at least every one tbat
came to' me, particularly by my wife and
daughter that is near me, persuaded te tell all
that I knew, and I do here in the presence of
God Almighty declare what I know to be true.
X. H. S. What says my lord ? Speak out.
L. Staff. My lords, I do believe since the
Reformation from the Church of Rome to
(what it is now established) the Church of Eng-
land, those of that religion have had several
wicked and ill designs and Plots: I do believe
they had a design in queen Elizabeth's time,
Babbfhgton's Plot,* (that is a long time ago)
how far it was to take away the queen's life I
cannot tell, but a Plot it was: and I do be-
lieve there was another in her time, called earl
of Westmoreland's Plot, wherein there was a
rebellion in the Noxth, for which some fled and
some were executed, that was a very ill design :
as for those poisonings of her saddle, and the
like, I take them to be but stories.
In king James's time, in the first year of his
reign, there was a wicket) Plot composed by
actors, some of one religion, some of another ;
there was my lord Grey, my lord Cobham, *ny
lord Brooke, and other such, they were con-
demned all of them ;f some fled, as Markham
andBainbamt those lords and sir Walter Ra-
leigh were reprieved and kept long in the Tower.
But sir Walter Raleigh was afterwards upon
that same judgment beheaded, and the lords
died in the Tower.
My lords, next to that was the execrable
treason that I spoke of at first, the Gun-
powder Treason ;• And I protest before Al-
mighty God, 1 did from my infancy detest and
abhor those men, tbat were engaged in it ; and
I do think, and always did think the wit of
man nor the devil's malice cannot invent an
excuse for k. For the men concerned, they
all acknowledged it, confessed it, and begged
pardon of the king, and God, and all good men
for it ; that is all I shall say to that now.
My lords, sioce his majesty's happy restora-/
tiou, I do conceive, and I think I may safely
say it, (Cor you all know it) he was gracious and
good to all Dissenters, particularly to them of
the Romish Church ; they had connivance and
indulgence in their private houses ; and I de-
clare to your lordships, I did then say to some
that were too open in their worship, that they
did play foul in taking more liberty upon them
than was fitting for them to do, and that,
brought the misfortune upon me which I will
not name.
Mv lords, It was not long ago that your,
lordships at your own bar did allow all the
Dissenters from the Church of England to give
some reasoos to your lordships why those laws
that were against them should be repealed, as
well Protestant Dissenters as those of the
Church of Rome, and why they should have
same kind of toleration; among whom you
did permit those of the Romish religion to aj *
pear too, I forget their names. And I reroem-.
ber particularly one of the sorts of them, an
Anabaptist I think, did urge for a reason, that
which is a great truth, that they held rebellion
to be the sin of witchcraft; 1 believe it is as
bad as any sin can be.
My lords, that came to nothing at that time;,
but, my lords, I believe that after that, all of all
religions had meetings amonsj themselves to
endeavour to get that toleration which they
proposed humbly to your lordships ; there I
will never deny, my lords, that my opinion was,
and is, that this kingdom can never be happy
till an act of parliament pass to this effect; it
was my opinion then, and I did endeavour it
all I could, that the dissenting Protestants
might have a comprehension, and the other a
toleration : I acknowledge it to be my inten-
tion, and I think it was no ill one ; for if that
be a true cony of the Commons votes which
is in print, there is some such thing detignin^
there as a comprehension ; and I was of opi-
nion, that it were sufficient that such as were
of the Church of Rome might by act of par-'
liainent serve God in their own houses, and
privately in their own way, not in public, and
that for it they should pay something to the
king out of their estates, but truly not much ;
' * ' f
* See vol. S. p. 159.
1539] STATE TRIALS, 32C0a*ljuIL l6W+-Proccufoig* against the [1540
your lordships with, I did petition for this fa-
vour which I humbly thank your lordships for
granting. If I be impertinent, I shall beg toot
lordships pardon, and I hope you will be pies
ed to consider my weakness at all times, espe-
cially in this condition I am now in ; but I hope by
jour lordships favour to be in a happier one quick-
ly. For the matters of proof, I snail offer not a
tittle; bat, my lords, ibis Order which I re-
ceived does say, That the Lords assembled in
parliament have ordered, that my counsel shall
not be heard touching the Continuance of Im-
peachments from Parliament to Parliament :
But I hope, my lords, you will please, without
offence, to let me offer to yoar lordships my
own conceptions about it ; which I shall do as
briefly as I can .
My lords, I do not conceive by this Order,
that vour lordships say it does or does not
continue ; you have given no judgment, as I
know of, in it ; when you have, I shall acqui-
esce : But I hope your lordships will resolve
that it does nor. And, my lords, my reasons
for it are two : The first is, because one of the
managers for the House of Commons, as I take
if, Sir VV. Jones, said these words, and your
lordships may remember them, * That if there
* were no such precedent, your lordships would
no government could be safe if traitors had but
craft equal to their villainy," (see Fost. 237)
does not seem to be satisfactory. Considera-
tions of that kind are indeed mtitled to very
J peat influence in regulating the proceedings of
egislators as to what laws should be enacted,
but they are wholly impertinent to the con-
struction of laws which have been already
enacted. This construction of the staL 1 E. 6.
c. 12. and 5 and 6 Ed. 6. c. 11, appears not to
have been established till this case of lord
Stafford. (See Foster, 836, £37). Never-
theless, it seems to be the legitimate and fair
construction of those statutes, and in no respect
to impugn that most wholesome rule which is
stated by. lord Bacon. (Maxims, Regula 12).
* Penal Statutes shall not be construed by
equity/
As to the king's power of altering the exe-
cution of a sentence, lord Bacon says, " In
treason it hath been an ancient use and favour
from the kings of this realm to pardon the exe-
cution of hanging, drawing, and quartering,
and to make warrant for their beheading."
Preparation toward the Union of the Laws of
JEngland and Scotland, vol. 3, of his works,
p. 408, 4to ed. of 1778.
" In felony, the corporal punishment is by
hanging, and it is doubtful whether the king
snay turn it into beheading in the case of a peer
or other person of dignity, because in treason
die striking off the head is part of the judg-
ment, and so the king pardoneth the rest ; hut
in felony, it is no part of the judgment, and the
fcing cannot alter the execution of law, yet pre-
cedents have been both ways." Preparation
towards the Union of the Laws of England and
Scotland; vol, 3, of his works, p. 501.
' make a precedent :f Whether von will or no,
that I most submit to your lordships ; but then
there is none yet. The next thing is, my lords,
this, Whether an Impeachment be to be pro-
secuted in parliament without an Indictment t
This, my lords, I humbly hope your lordships
are resolved it ought not. For I see not bow
truly, my lords, it can be ; by the little read*
ing which I have had in the law, I never found
any man prosecuted in a legal way, but by an
indictmeut. I may be mistaken, and 1 beg yonr
lordships pardon for troubling you with my mis*
takes ; but T never read of any that were pro*
secuted upon an Impeachment ? so then, the
legal usual word being Indictment, I hope yoar
lordships will not alter the form ; for I hope
you will keep that great maxim of yoor noble
ancestors, ' Nolumus Leges Anglic mutare*:
And whether this be a change of the law or no,
I-tubmit it to your lordships.
A third thing is this; Your lordships do not
think tit that my counsel shall plead to that
point, Whether words do amount to an overt-
act ; for hearing my counsel to that likewise I
do not pretend : But I hope your lordships
will give me leave to say this, I never beard
that words did amount to an overt-act : if your
lordships judge otherwise, I submit ; hut till
then, I hope it shall not conclude me.
There are some other points which I did offer
to your lordships, and I humbly beseech you to
know, whether my counsel shall be heard to
them. It is true, one of them, which was, Whe-
ther two witnesses iu several places did amount
to a legal testimouy or no, your lordships did not
declare one way or another : If you say you ac-
quiesce in the opinion of the judges, I must sub-
mit ; but till judgment is given, I beseech your
lordships to give me leave to tell you my weak
thought about it. I did not hear what tbo
Judges said all of them, but as I apprebeod,
they were all of one opinion ; It is true, one of
them that spoke last, 1 think it was judge At-
kins, did say it did amount to a legal testimony
because ebe those juries that have found' some
guilty upon the same short evidence should bo
perjured ; but if this were not so, then upon
the same grounds, under vour lordships fa-
vour those juries that acquitted some upon such
testimony were perjured : But 1 must believe
it to be otherwise tiH your lordships bare do-
dared it as your opinion ; for that reason will
not hold ; for the same reason will be for the
perjuring the one, as for the perjuring the other.
And the same juries, for the most part, tried
those that were found guilty, and those that
were acquitted.
L. fi. S. Is this all yoor lordship will please
to say?
L. Staff. No, my lords, if you would give me
leave, I would trouble you a little farther; if
it were an offence I would not say a word. My
lords, I do conceive Lam not concerned in the
general Plot of the paptsti; for I am not proved
to he so, and whatsoever I may be in myself, mm
I conceive, or whatsoever there is of hearsay, I
hope your lordships will not go- upon that, bot
7
154 1] STATE TRIALS, 32XfeAftLi
upon, what is proved ' secundum allegata at
* probata,' and that Common Fame will con-
demn no man ; if it do, then no man is safe ;
but I must say, there is not one word of proof
offered that I am a papist.
I hope, my lords, 1 have cleared myself to
your lordships, and made my innocency appear,
by making appear the perjury of the witnesses,
and the falshood of tliose tilings they said
against me. Against Dugdale I have proved
it by two of his own witnesses; the one was
£ld, the woman that swore for him, That he
took up a glass of cyder and wished that it
might be his poison if he knew any thing of the
Plot ; the other was Whitby, who says, he had
given my lord Alton's father warning long ago
what a knave he -was. So it is clear. For Dr.
Oates I hope from his contradictions against
himself as well as Hugdale, who does contra-
diet himself, at one time August, at another
time the latter end of August or the beginning
of September: and 1 hope your lordships will
give no credit to Oates's testimony ; lor he
said before your lordships lie had declared all
fie knew, (it is true, I was then accused, bur
not for having a commission, as he now swears)
and afterwards he accused the queen ; so here
is Oates against Oates, and Dngdaie against
Dugdale : and for Turbervile, I have proved by
Ins affidavit, first he swears one thing and then
another ; and the truth of it is, his l>rother
proved him false in liis last oath, that it was
1671, and not 1672.
My lords, It is not my part to make any
question, nor do I, whether a Plot or no Plot ;
fori am not concerned in it :- if what I shall
say now be impertinent, I humbly beg your
lordships .pa/don. My lords, I have been by
the most of my friends, at least every ooe tbat
came to' me, particularly by my wife and
daughter that is near me, persuaded to tell all
that I knew, and I do here in the presence of
God Almighty declare what I know to be true.
L. H. S. What says my lord ? Speak out.
L. Staff. My lords, I do believe since the
Reformation from the Church of Rome to
(what it is now established) the Church of Eng-
land, those of that religion have had several
wicked and ill designs and Plots: I do believe
they had a design in queen Elizabeth's time,
Babbfhgton's Plot,* (that is a long time ago)
how far it was to take away the queen's life I
cannot tell, but a Plot it was: and I do be-
lieve there was another in her time, called earl
of Westmoreland's Plot, wherein there was a
rebellion in the Nocth, for which some fled and
some were executed, that was a very ill design :
as for those poisonings of her saddle, and the
like, I take them to be but stories.
In king James's time, in the first year of his
reign, tlierc was a wicked Plot composed by
actors, some of one religion, some of another ;
(here was my lord Grey, my lord Cobham, my
lord Brooke, and other such, they were con-
demned all of them ;f some fled, as Markham
* See vol. 1. p. 1 127. f See vol. 2. p. 62.
typmn
[U43
and ftainbam t those lords and sir Walter Ra-
leigh were reprieved and kept long in the Tower.
But sir Walter Raleigh was afterwards upon
that same judgment beheaded, and the lords
died in the Tower.
My lords, next to that was the execrable
treason that I spoke of at first, the Gun-
powder Treason :* And I protest before Al-
mighty God, 1 did from my infancy detest and
abhor those men, tbat were engaged in it ; and
I do think, and always did think the wit of,
man nor the devil's malice cannot invent an
excuse for it. For the men concerned, they
all acknowledged it, confessed it, and begged
pardon of the king, and God, and all good men
for it ; that is all I shall say to tbat now.
My lords, since his majesty's happy restora-/
tion, I do conceive, and I think I may safely
say it, (Cor you all know it) he was gracious and
good to all Dissenters, particularly to them of
the Romish Church ; they had connivance and
indulgence in their private houses ; and I de- '
dare to your lordships, I did then say to some,
that were too open in their worship, that they
did play foul in taking more liberty upon them
than was fitting for them to do, and tbat.
brought the misfortune upon me which I will
not name.
My lords, It was not long ago that your
lordships at your own bar did allow all the
Dissenters from the Church of England to give
some reasons to your lordships why those laws
that were against them should be repealed, as
well Protestant Dissenters as those of the
Church of Rome, and why they should have
same kind of toleration; among whom you
did permit those of the Romish religion to aj *
j>ear too, I forget their names. And I reroem-.
ber particularly one of the sorts of them, an
Anabaptist I think, did urge for a reason, that
which is a great truth, that they held rebellion
to be the sin of witchcraft; I believe it is as
bad as any sin can be.
My lords, that came to nothing at tbat time;,
but, my lords, I believe that after that, ali of all
religions had meetings among themselves to
endeavour to get that toleration which they
proposed humbly to your lordships ; there I
will never deny, my lords, that my opinion was,
and is, that this kingdom can never be happy1
till an act of parliament pass to this effect; it
was my opinion then, and I did endeavour it
all I could, that the dissenting Protestants
might have a comprehension, and the other a
toleration : I acknowledge it to be my inten-
tion, and I think it was no ill one ; for if that
be a true copy of the Commons votes which
is in print, there is some such thing designing
there as a comprehension ; and I was of opi-
nion, that it were sufficient that such as were
of the Church of Rome might by act of par-
liament serve God in their own bouses, and
privately in their own way, not in public, and
that for it they should pay something to the
king out of their estates, but truly not much ;
* See vol. 2. p. 159.
M4SJ. STATE TRIALS, 52 Charles II. 1080 ~PVoce*£wgi ^ Me [1544
that they should be severely punished if they or
any of them did endeavour to persuade any
subject to their opinion, or did come to court,
or enjoy any office whatsoever, though it were
but that of a scavenger, but that they should
pay their proportion to all chargeable offices :
that I profess, my lords, was my opinion, and
I confess to your lordships it is so still. I^was
in some hopes that it would have been done
in that sessions, because I was afraid it was
unlikely to be done at any time else. I confess
to your lordships, I was heartily and cordially
against the test, because it hindered those Just
and honest things that were for the good of the
kingdom.
My lords, there was the first or the second
day brought into your lordships house, the
Becord of Mr. Coleman's Trial ; and for the
Letters in it, I do, my lords, declare to your
lordships r never read one of them before, but
X have often read them since they have been in
print; and when I read them first cursorily
over, my opinion was and is, That Cofemau*s
endeavouring by money out of France, and
keeping off the parliament, to get a toleration,
was that which he could not justify by law;
how far it was criminal, that I do not know ; I
am not so skilled in the law ; I think it was
not justifiable, but he bath paid for it severely
since.
My lords, I do declare that ever since I had
the honour to sit among your lords! ips, which
is now 40 years (fur in tile year 1640, 1 was by
bis majesty's favour called up a peer,) I have
valued myself upon the honour of sitting with
you ; and I do declare, when I have sat in
this house> when yonr lordships have desired
the king, when it was hot weather and unsea-
sonable, to put off the sitting of the parliament,
I was never glad of it, but sorry when they were
Srorogued but far a short time. This I profess
; true, and I hope I am no, criminal in it ; for
I do value the parliament's sitting to be the
only means to keep this kingdom quiet.
My lords, It is very true by Coleman's
Letters, and what I have seen in print since, I
do believe there have been some Consultations
for a toleration ; and if I bad known as much
then as I have since I have been in the Tower,
I had perhaps prevented many things : for, my
lords, I hold England to be a great and an happy
body ; hut it is as other great bodies are, it may
be now, as you know before it was, over-grown
or sick ; it was then, and I pray Uod it be not
now • hot I hold nothing can cure it but that
old English physician, the king, your lordships,
and the Commons in parliament assembled.
But if Iljad known any such design as Cole-
man's Letters do hint, I would not have con-
tinued in England.
My lords, For that damnable opinion of
Kini'-killjng, if I were of any church whatso-
ever, ai.d found that to he its principle, I would
leave it. My lords, this is as true as I can
speak ar.v thing hi the world ; I beg your lord-
ships pardon for troubling you with my imper-
tjnencies, and hope you pardon it to my weak-
My lords, I do profess before Almighty
God, and before your lordships my jodges, I
know no one tittle nor point of the Plot ; and
if I did, I hold myself bound to declare it. For
the present I shall say little more, unless the
managers give me occasion ; if they will reply,
and make any ohjectiont, I desire I may an-
swer them. I know the great disadvantages I
am under, when these gentlemen, who are
great scholars and learned men, reply upon ne,
* bo have those great helps of memory, parts,
and understanding in the law, all which I want.
And therefore I hope your lordships will not
conclude me upon what they or I have said,
but will he pleased to debate the matter among
yourselves, and be as well my counsel as my
judges.
My lords, When I offered to yonr lordships
Matter of Law, I did in no wise admit the
Matter of Fact
L. H. S. My lord, I cannot bearyoo.
L. Staff. My lords, If your lordships please,
this Paper may be read.
L. H. 8. Deliver your paper in, my lords
cannot hear.
L. Staff. I cannot deny to yonr lordships,
that what happened to me on Saturday-night,
disturbed roe very much. Every day since
I came hither, there hath been such shouting
and hooting by a company of barbarous rabble,
as never was heard the like, I believe ; but k
was at a distance roost of the time, and so it
did not much concern me. But Saturday*
night it was so near and so great, that really it
hath disturbed me ever since ; it was great to-
day, but at a distance ; if it were not thus, I
should not offer a Paper to be read : I scarce
know what I do or say, considering the cir-
cumstances I am in.
L. H. S. Take my lord's Paper, and read it
Sir Tfio. Lee. My lords, I desire you will
please to consider whether this may not intro-
duce a new custom by reading of this Paper.
As to what my lord is pleased to say, I am
sorry for the occasion that any disturbance
should arise to my lord from the rabble, or nay
one else; I hope his lordship believes we can-
not* help, nor do we contribute to that disturb-
ance. But we desire your lordships to consider,
whether this practice of having things written
down for the clerk to read, may not introdocs
a custom, which may in time grow inconvenient
for future example. I see no great danger m
the particular instance before your lordships
now, but it is dangerous in snch cases to do any
thing that is new in this court.
X. B. S. All the matter is, whether it be
read by my lord, who cannot be heard, or read
by the clerk.
Sir Tho. Lee. We only oppose it out of fear
of making a precedent, which may be of 91
consequence.
L. H. S. Read it, my lord, and raise yow
voice, for it concerns yonjto speak out.
L. Staff. (Reading out of his Paper.) My
lords, When I offered matter of law to you
lord&hips, on Saturday last, I did in nowise ad*
1545]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. YtoO.—Fk* Pipith LordL
[IM*
mit the matter of fact to *he true that was ai-
led ged against roe, and so I desire to be under-
stood. And I hope your lordships will not lay
the less weight upon the testimony of my wit-
nesses, because they are not sworn ; for the
law does not suffer them to be sworn, which is
no fault of mine, nor ought not to turn to my
prejudice.
I must appeal to your lordships judgments in
point of fact, how far the king's witnesses are
to be believed against me, considering the
whole matter, and my counter- proof.
Next I submit to your lordships judgments
this point, That the Impeachment being founded
upon the common law, and the statute of 25th
Rdw. 3, and not upon the statute of the 13th
Of this king, two of the witnesses, Dugdale and
Turbervile, do only swear treasonable words
spoken by me, and not my overt-act ; for they
swear only that I promised them money and
rewards to kill the king. Now 1 humbly pray
your lordships judgment, whether bare speak-
ing of words be an overt-act, and treason at the
common law, or upon that statute; and whe-
ther there be more than speaking of words in a
consult, or otherwise proved bv Dugdale and
Turbervile, I appeal to you. Inenthe other
witness, Oates, is but a single witness, who
speaks of the receiving of a commission. This
is that I offer to your lordships now for your
judgments, and then I desire I may hare your
opinion in other things.
X. H. S. Is this all your lordship hath to say?
L. Staff. For the present, my lords.
X. H. 8, You must say all you have to say
now.
L. Staff, Is it your lordships pleasure to hear
counsel to nothing at all? I aid likewise al-
ledge to your lordships the other day, That peo-
ple that swear for money are nol competent
credible witnesses ; how far that was proved, or
I may prove by my counsel, I submit to your
lordships.
X. H, S. look you, my lord, you have so
far received already the pleasure of the House:
Tou have raised several questions of law, Whe-
ther every overt-act requires two witnesses to
prove it. You have had the opinion of the
judges, and there is no more to be said in it. As
to that> Whether Impeachments continue from
parliament to parliament ; and the other thing,
Whether proceedings may be upon an Impeach-
ment without an Indictment; these are matters
of the course and constitutions of parliaments,
my lords will consider of them by themselves,
and will permit no counsel to argue them. For
Cbe other point, That words are no overt act,
that rests for their opinion in another case,
when it shall come, for they have now no 6uch
case before them.
L. Staff. I humbly conceive there is.
X. H. S. There is a great difference be-
tween bare words being an overt-act, and per-
suasion by promises of money and rewards to
kill the king, which is a very great overt-act.
L. Staff. Is it possible to do an act by
words ? If it to so, I never heard it before.
X. H. & Otherwise men may promise re*
wards to twenty several persons to kill the king,
and then say it" is all but words.
L. Staff. I say it not, but I humbly conceive
the law says it.
X. H. S. What say you, gentlemen of the
House of Commons ? *
L. Staff My lords, I have something to say,
which I desire to speak first : My lords, I have
cleared to your lordships that all the witnesses
have sworn falsely against me, and this I have)
made out by proofs : I say not much to that.—
(My lord was searching for his Pavers.) Truly,
my lords, I am confounded with tne noise and
other circumstances ; but, my lords, I shall, if
your lordships please to give me leave, humbly
represent my case to you, how I take it to be in
matter of fact, (as to my own condition not any
thing,) how I am now before your lordships.
I was, iny lords, committed by my lord chief
justice's warrant, on the 80th or 21st of Octo*
ber, 1678, Friday, 85th of October, I was
brought to your lordships bar; I was impeach*
ed ; I do not remember the day, my lords, the
beginning oi' December ; in one parliament Ar~
tides exhibited against me; in another parlia-
ment I was brought upon these Articles exhi-
bited, and being called to your lordships bar,
the Articles were read to me, and I gave in my
Answer; that was some time in May 1679, and
in the end of May, the 27th, (if I mistake not,
if I do, I desire it may be rectified by your
books) I, with the ether lords, were brought to
this place in order to oor Trial. We staid some
time there, and then were remanded by you*
Order to the Tower, where I continued till No-
vember twelve months after, without having
heard any thing concerning it. So that I was
first impeached m one parliament, Articles
brought against me and pleaded to in a second,
and now brought to my trial in a third ; ami
what your lordships will say upon this, I sub-
mit to you ; and whether these be proceedings
according to law your lordships wilt judge.
My lords, I humbly eonceive that Magna
Charts says, That justice shall be denied nor
delayed to no man : whether it hath not been
delayed to roe let your brdshrps iodgc. If yon
say the prorogation of the parliament is the
cause of that delay, I hope your lordships wiU
give me leave to say, That from the 5th of De-
cember to the 30th, when the first parliament
was prorogued, or during the session of the
other parliament, there wits time enough sere
wherein I might have been brought to my trial;
and if these proceedings be lawful and just,
there is no man living, 'but may be kept off
from time to time, till some accidents happen*
that their ends may be* gained. I leave it to
your judgment, whether it may be only- my case?
now, or of some of your lordships in future
ages, to he accused of things that you never
heard of before, and not brought to justify your-
selves, but kept iu prison.
My lords, there is a statute, I have forgot
where it is, (but such a one I have read) that
though the king oy his great seal, or little seal,
1M7] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Proceedings again* the [1548
command that justice should be dela/ed or de-
nied, yet, however, the judges shall not obey it,
but proceed. So 1 hope there is no pretence
of delay on my part, and the benefit of that
statute shall not be denied me. And that sta-
tute of the Great Charter, which cost so many
of your ancestors their lives to maintain, I hope
you will never go from. Now your lordships*
noble ancestors, amongst other things, took
great care that justice should be denied or de-
layed to none, and this I desire you to take into
consideration.
I am in your lordships judgment either to be
acquitted or condemned. I hope your lord-
ships will* and I know you will, lay your hands
upon your hearts, consult your consciences and
your honours ; and then you will do what is
just and equitable, I doubt not.
My lords, Mr. Oates said I came by the
name of Mr. Howard of Effingham, but that I
did to ray. letters sign * Stafford ;' surely, my
lords, if I was ashamed to own my person, I
should have been as much ashamed to have
owned my name. He says, he saw me take a
commission, and whether that ue an overt**ct,
your lordships are to determine. Upon the
whole matter, I conceive, there is nothing
proved against me but words, nor pretended to,
out only by Oates. And whether you will cre-
dit a man that so dissembles with Godr as I have
told you, I appeal to your lordships, and beg
you to consider of it.
That these Witnesses have sworn for money,
if you send to the Exchequer-Office, and see
what money they have received, you will find
by the great sums that it is so ; and then I hope
you witt not allow them to be heard, nor credit
any that swear for gain. I bad a suit in West-
minster-Hall, that had like to have gone ex-
pressly against me, only because -one-of my wit-
nesses was to gain 8/. if the suit went lor me.
But pray consider how much these men have
had. And for the point, that there are not two
witnesses, I beseech your lordships give me
leave to put you in mind, That not many years
ago, you passed an Act against Frauds and
Perjuries, wherein you were so careful to pre-
serve men's estates, that you required tnree
witnesses to prove a will of goods or lands
above 1002. and will you allow but one witness
to take away a man's life for words ? Though
your lordships will never commit treason, vet
no man can preserve himself from the misfor-
tune that happens to me, of being falsly ac-
cused. •
It is true, my lords, the Maoagers have given
an Answer to the business of the money, by
saying, The king may give as liberally as he
pleases ; but to give so great sums, whereby
men poor before, are now become rich, I thins
will be an objection against their credit.
My lords, I have said what I do think con-
venient, though I think much more might be
said by an abler man to your lordships, far the
clearing of himself. I hope I have done it, nay,
I am confident I have ; and this I have done
for the memory of that great and blessed king,
who first made me a peer, that it may not be
said he did me the honour forty years ago to
call me up to this dignity, and I should fly in
the face of his son in so horrible a manner as
these men would make me. I do owe it to the
honour of my father and mother, who, I think
I may safely say, were both honourable sod
worthy persons : ti&j father was a learned mas,
and a wise man, as I may appeal to some of
your lordships who knew him well ; I say, I
owe it to their memory, and to the honour of
the family from whence I sprang, which all U»
world knows what it is. And I should be
an infamous man to dishonour them so much,
as to bear their name, and commit treason.
My lords, I owe it to my wife, who hath beta
a very kind wife to me as ever man had : She
is heiress at law to the great estate of that great
and unfortunate man Stafford, duke of Backing.
ham, who was cut off in the reign of king
Henry the 8th, and all his estate, if it were not
for that Attainder, would have come to her.
I may he impertinent in telling your lord-
ships what it was ; but I do pot over saj it,
when I reckon it would have been at this day
90,000/. a year, for it was 17,000/. a year is
those days penny-rent, besides other emolu-
ments. This is an extravagant thing to say,
but it is true; something thereof does remain
to her, which I now enjoy. I owe it to all my
children, especially to my eldest son, who is s
young man, and I may say, of far better parts
and hopes than, his father, and whom, I hope,
will serve his country. I owe it to all sot
friends and relations, for I would not have it
said after my death, my wife was the widow of
a traitor. I owe it to all these* but above ill,
I owe it to God Almighty ; that when I cone
to be judged by Him, I may give a good so>
count of what he bath entrusted me with, that
' I may not appear as ,an infamous man who
knows be hath a body, bnt not his own, and yet
should throw it and his soul away together.
And if I should have committed this execrable
treason, I should have been guilty of my own
murder : 1st, In the committing a crime worthy
of death; and then in not confessing, to ss?s
my life. I bold reorder an extraordinaoj crime,
the worst next to treason : And I know, if I
should not prevent my death by confessing all I
knew, I should have been guilty of sel/morder,
the worst of murders. I Know vour lordships
will lay to heart, what au execrable this* mur-
der is, and the blood of innocents ; and I hope
there is none of the House of Commoos, but
after this evidence will clear me. I am sore
none of them would hare me punished for that
I am not guilty of. I do not blame these gen-
tlemen of the House of Commons for prosecut-
ing, nor the first for impeaching ; for tbey hid
without all doubt, reasons great enough for it
upon what evidence they had before inem, be-
fore they knew what the witnesses were. I
know your lordships will not in the least point
vary from justice, or the law of the land, and I
desire you to lay the whole matter to to*
hearts; I have not the least suspicion of iht
1519]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Ch arias II. 1080.— Five Popish Lords.
[1550
partiality of any man in the house; nay, I pro-
fess, if I had an enemy, and he were not here,
I would beg of you that he might come. I
iia?e cleared myself before your lordships, and
I hope I shall not be run down by the wicked
rabble; which, where it will end, God knows.
It began in the late times against my lord of
Strafford, * and so continued till it ended in
that most execrable fact, one of them, that
ever was done. A wicked beginning it was,
and it had a wicked end. For since our Sa-
viour's death and murder by the Jews, never
was so execrable a murder in the world; and
whoever had an hand in it, without an extraor-
dinary repentance, can have no thoughts of sal-
vation. I never could serve the king, it is true,
but in my desires ; and I never deserted hie* in
thought, word, or deed, to my knowledge, in
ray life; much less did I ever contrive or con-
sent to his death. I do in the presence of God,
angels, your lordships, and all men, declare, I
do know no more of the Plot, ot\ any such
thing, than any ooe here does. That those of
the Romish religion had meetings, I believe, to
obtain those ends that I spake of before : Cole-
man went too far ; how far he was criminal in
it, [ cannot tell. Meetings, I say, there were,
but I was never at one of them, nor do I know
what was done there. I do leave it to your
lordships to do justice, as I know you will, and
with all submission I resign myself up to you.
£. H. S. Have you done, my lord ?
L. Staff. If your lordships will not allow me
counsel to argue those points, I have done.
L. H. S. What say you, gentlemen of the
House of Commons?
Serjeant Maynard. My lords, something that
my lord hath spoken hath been resolved against
bim, that is, atout two witnesses to each overt-
act ; some things are not to be disputed about
the law and course of parliaments ; some things
were not to be said now, because he had said
them before. My lords, we had concluded
our evidence, and he is pleased to take up the
time with repeating what was said before.— -
For the other matters that my lord is pleased to
discourse of, all he says is but his obligations,
and how unreasonable it were for him to do it;
the question is, Whether he hath done it or no?
If be hath, his obligations are an aggravation of
his crime, not an excuse. His relations, his
family, and other things are nothing before
' your lordships now in point of judgment, nor
it there any thing new said to-day, that was
r»ot said before.
Sir W. Jones. My lords, I should not add
one word farther, were it not that this noble
lord is pleased upon bis memory, or rather
without, to say something of me ; and that was,
That speaking of the continuance of proceed*
ings, I should say, * If your lordships bad no
precedent, I hope you would make one.' My
lords, I do appeal to your lordships memory,
whether I said any thing like it; I utterly deny
it, nor was there any occasion for it. For
*m
See vol. 3; p. 1389; of this Collection*
there was no need of urging precedents, when
your 4ordabips, upon a conference with the
Commons, did declare it to be the law of pro-
ceedings in parliaments, and did then fortify it
with many arguments. I know, my lord's me-
mory is not very good ; I am sure in this he it
very much mistaken.
My lord hath been pleased to coraplaip he
hath received much disturbance, and that the
noise and shouts have been so great, tliat they
have occasioned some distraction in him. My
lords, I am sure his lordship cannot mean us;
for I appeal to your lordships, and nil that have
heard this trial, whether he hath received the
least disturbance or interruption from us, or
whether we have not treated him with that
respect that becomes his dignity, and the did*
cretion that ought to be in the managers of the
House of Commons. But I must needs say,
that his lordship hath received distraction from
those friends or counsel of his that put those
many papers into his hand; for he hath read
one after another that do contain the same
matter over and over again. These, I confess,
were sufficient to distract him, or any other
that should make use of them. His lordship
bath been pleased to go off from the matter of
law, to the matter of fact; and backward and
forward, to that it is impossible to follow bim :
And as to the matter of fact, we shall decline
to follow him ; for though we have not given
his lordship any disturbance, yet we submit to
your judgment, whether it be regular or ac-
cording to the course of proceedings, when his
lordship hath summed up his evidence, and we
that are the prosecutors have coneldded our*,
he should begin that work again ; which; if it
should be admitted, we were to reply, and he
might rejoin upon us, and so there would be do
end of proceedings.— And, my lords, I hope,
though this lord hath had the favour to do it,
yet it shall not for the future be brought into
example, for it will make trials endless.
My lords, for the matter of law, there is no-
thing that deserves* an answer; for though the
law does admit the prisoner counsel in matters
of law, yet it must oe in things doubtful; and
if there be any thing of that in our case, I sub-
mit it to yotir lordships. X am sure, I have
heard nothing new but what hath been over-
ruled already, unless it be a matter of law
which rises upon the matter of fact, and that
not proved, to wit, the corruption of witnesses.
The last day, all was said by his lordship he
could say, and all said by us that we thought
fit to say; and now to begin the same matter
again, 1 think ought not to be admitted. We
shall not follow his lordship in that way of
proceedings, end hope it shall never fall into
example.
Sir F. Winnington. My lords, I have only
one word to say to your lordships, and that is
in relation to the proceedings of the Commons in
this cause; for if the cause had not been of an
extraordinary nature, we should have stood
upon it, that the prisoner ought not, after the
prosecutors had concluded; to have taken a
1651 ] STATE TW AI& 32 C«a*lbs II. 1 680— Proceedings again* the £1 668
liberty of reading and repeating what he had
said over, and over again. We know, my loots,
there ace a sort of men in the world, who are
w tiling lo lay hold of any pretences to cavil at
our proceedings ; and therefore we have let my
lord take all this liberty, that so his party night
have no colour of complaint. His lordship
was pleased to say the last day, that he had
not* a witness more to produce, nor a reason
to give, as I understood him; and therefore he
must own that we have been very tender to him
in all our proceeding*. One thing my lord in-
sinuates to day, which I cannot forbear taking
notice of as if we had delayed him: which is
without cause ; we had used all diligence in
preparing ourselves, and were soon ready when
the king was pleased to let the parliament sit,
and therefore it can be no imputation ou us:
and truly, if my lord considers the weight of tfce
evidence, I fear be will think bis trial comes
soon enough now.
L. Staff. My lords, I desire to be rightly un-
derstood in one thing, and it »only this;. I did
not say the House of Commons shouted at me,
but the rabble.
X. H. S. Is it your lordships pleasure to ad-
journ?
' Lords, Ay, ay.
L. H, 8. Then this House is adjourned to the
Parliament Chamber.
J Then the Lords withdrew in their former
er, and the Committee of Commons went
back to their House.]
Mr. Speaker resumed the chair, • and a mes-
sage was sent from the Lords by sir Timothy
Baldwin, and sir Samuel Clarke.
Mr. Speaker; The Lords have commanded
us to acquaint this House, that titer have ap-
pointed William viscount Stafford to be brought •
to the bar in Westminster-hall to-morrow
morning at ten of the clock to receive judg-
ment.
The Commons adjourned to eight of the
clock the-nex* morning.
Th^Seviute JJUt«
Tuesday, December the 7th, 1600;
About the, hour of eleven, the Lords adjourn-
ed into Westminster-hall, goiag thither in their
fprmer order info the court there erected; and
Mr. Speaker having, left the. chair, the- Com-
mittee of Commons were seated as before.
The Lords being sat, proclamation- was made
fe# silence; . and the. Lord -High-Steward be-
ing seated on the-woolpack* with Garter prin-
cipal King oT Arms,, the Usher of the Black Uod,
nine maces attending him, with all the' rest of
the solemnity* as was at first expressed, took
the votes of the peers upon the evidence, be-
yjnning at the puisne baron, and so upwards,
in this order ;. the lord ^Stafford being: (as the
law require*) absent.
1+ H. S. My lords, I am. an humble suitor to
vour lordships, That.you will give me cleave to
collect yonr votes as I sit, for I am not able, to
stand. (Which being granted, the Lord-High-
Steward proceeded.)
L. E. S. My lord Butler of Weston, Is Wil-
liam lord viscount Stafford Guilty of the Trea-
son whereof he stands impeached, or Not
Guilty ?
Lord Butler. Not Guilty upon my honour.
[The same question was pat to the rest, whose
Names and Votes follow.]
Lord Arundel of Trerice. Not Guilty upon
my honour.
Lord Crew. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Corn wall is. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Holies. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Wooton. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Hockiufrham. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Lucas. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Astiey. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Ward. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Byron. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord £urtton. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Leigh. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Herbert of Cherbury. Guilty upon my
honour.
Lord Howard of Escrick. Guilty upon my
honour.
Lord Maynard. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Lovelace. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Deincourt. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Lord Grey of Werk. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Brook. Guilty. upon my honour.
Lord Norris. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Chandois. Guilty. upon my honour.
Lord North and Grey. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Lord Pagett. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Wharton. Guflty upon my honour.
Lord Eure. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Cromwell. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Windsor. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Conyers. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Ferrers. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Morley. Not Guilty upon my honoor.
Lord Mowbray. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Lord visci Newport. Guilty tipon my honour.
Lord vise. Faulconberge. Guilty upon my
honour.
Earl of Conway. Guilty upon my honoor.
Earl of Berkeley. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Macclesfield. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Haiti fa*. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Fevershanu Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Sustfex. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Guilford. Gadty upon my honour.
Earl of Shafrsbury, Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Burlington. Gniliy upon my honour.
Earl of Aile&bury. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Sari of Craven. Not Guilty upon in^boswuT.
IMS] STATE TRIALS, 32 Ciia*u
Earl of Carlisle. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Bath. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Essex. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Clarendon. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of St. Albans. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earlof Searsdale. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Sunderland. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl Of Than et. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Chesterfield. Not Guilty upon my
honour.
Earl of Carnarvon. Not Guilty upon my
hooour.
Earlof Winchelsea. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Stamford. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Peterborough. Not Guilty upon my
honour.
Earl of Rivers. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Mulgrave. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Berkshire. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Manchester. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Westmorland. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Clare. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Bristol. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Denbigh. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Northampton. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Earl of Leicester. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Bridgwater. Goilty upon my honour.
Earl of Salisbury. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Suffolk. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Bedford. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Huntingdon. Guilty upon my ho-
nour*.
EarlofRot)sjnd. Not Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Kent. Guilty upon my honour.
Earl of Oxford. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord Chamberlain. Not Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Marquis of Worcester. Not Guilty upon my
honour.
Duke of Newcastle. Not Guilty upon my
honour.
Duke of Monmouth. Guilty upon my honour.
Duke of Albemarle. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Duke of Buckingham. Guilty upon my ho-
nour.
Lord Privy-Seal. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord President. Guilty upon my honour.
Lord High-Steward. Guilty upon my honour.
Prince Rupert Duke of Cumberland. Guilty
upon my honour. *
X. a. & My lords, upon telling your Votes
I find there are SI of my lords that think the
prisoner Not Guilty, and 55 that have found
him Guilty. Serjeant make proclamation for
the lieutenant of the Tower to bring bis priso-
ner to the bar. [Which was done, and his
lordship came to the bar.]
* See what he said when called as a witness
by Oates on his Trial for perjury, a, d. 1685,
infra*
VOL* Til.
xxgwi
(15U
X. H. S. My lord Stafford, I have but heavy
tidings for you ; your lordship hath been im-
peached of High-Treason, you have pleaded
Not Guilty ; my lords have beard your defence,
and have considered of the evidence, and their
lordships do find you Goilty of the Treason
whereof you are impeached.
L. Staff. God's holy name be praised, my
lords, for it.
X. H. S. What can your lordship say for
yourself, why judgment or death should not be
given upon you according to the law ?
L. Staff. My lords, I have but very little to
say ; I confess I am surprised at it, for I did
not expect H ; but God's will be done, and your
lordships, I will not murmur at it : God forgive
those that nave sworn falsely ayainst me. My
lords, I conceive I have something to say for res-
pite of judgment : I have been at many trials
in my life, but I never saw any trial where the
party tried did not hold up his hand, which I
was never asked to do : I thought it had been
a very material point in the law, that by the
holding up of the hand he might be known to
be the person. I have read lately, since I had
the misfortune to be thus accused, sir Edward
Coke upon the Pleas of the Crown ; and he
soys, That misnomer, the not giving a man his
right name, or addition, is likewise a just
cause to arrest the judgment. There is like-
wise another question, how far it may be valued
I know not ; 1 submit it, as I do all, to your
lordships. Though I am tried upon the act of
the 25th of Edward 3. yet there is nothing
more in that act, than what is included in the
act of the 13th of this king; and I humbly con-
ceive, my lords, by that act, and tlie last pro*
viso in it, a peer that is accused and found
guilty of the crimes therein mentioned, is to
lose his seat in parliament ; those are the
words ; and since it is so put down in the act,
it is so to be understood, and that is all the
{lonishment. And I humbly demand your
ordships judgment upon these points, whether
it be so or no ?
X. H. S. Has your lordship anymore to say?
L. Staff. No, my lords, I submit to your
lordships, and desire your judgment in these
points.
Then the Lords adjourned into the parliament-
chamber, and the committee of the Commons
returned to their own boose; and their Speaker
having resumed the chair, the whole body of
the House went with their Speaker to the bar
of the House of Lords, to demand Judgment of
High-Treason against William viscount Staf-
ford, upon the impeachment of the Commons
of England, in parliament, in the name of the
Commons in parliament, and of all the Commons
of Eogland.
The Commons, with their Speake/, went
back to their House.
Then the Lords took into consideration what
Judgment was to be given upon William vis-
count Stafford, and it was moved that he might
be beheaded. After some debate, the Judges
5G
1655] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \QSO.—l>r<)cecdmgs against the [1559
were asked, whether if any other judgment than
the usual judgment for High-Treason were
fivert upon him, it would attaint his blood ?
'he judge 8 were of opioion, that the judgment
/or High-Treason appointed by law, is" to be
drawn, hanged, and quartered; and in the
courts and proceedings below they can take no
notice of any judgment for High-Treason but
that.
Then sir Creswell Levinz, the king's Attor-
ney General, desired to be heard on his majes-
ty^* behalf, which the House gave leave for him
to be; who said, he knew no other judgment
by law for High-Treason, but drawing, hangiug
and quartering ; if any other judgment were
given, it would be prejudicial to his majesty,
and be a question in the inferior courts as to
bis attainder of High-Treason.
Whereupon their lordships ordered, That
the Lord High Steward do pronounce the
ordinary Judgment of death upon the lord
viscount Stafford, as the law hath appointed in
cases of High-Treason.
And a Message was sent to the House of Com-
mons from their lordships, by sir Timothy Bald-
wyn and sir Samuel Clark :
Mr. Speaker ; We are commanded by the
Lords, to acquaint this House, That their lord-
ships are going presently into Westminster-
Hall, to give judgment against William viscount
Stafford. [Mr. Speaker left the chair ]
The committee of Commons appointed for
the management of the evidence against the
prisoner, with the rest of the Commons, went
into Westminster-Hall, to the court there
erected ; to be present when the Lords gave
judgment of High-Treason against him upon
the impeachment of the Commons of England.
After a short time their lordships were adjourn-
ed into Westminster-Hall, coming in their for-
mer order into the court there erected ; where
Leing seated, and the Lord High Steward being
on the woolsack, attended by Garter principal
king of arms, the usher of the black rod, eight
of the Serjeants at arms kneeling with their
maces, the ninth making proclamation for
silence ; which being done, the Lord High
Steward gave Judgment upon the prisoner as
followeth :*
Lord High Steward. " My lord Stafford ;
That which your lordship hath said in arrest of
judgment' hath been found by my lords, upon
due consideration had of it, to be of no moment
at all. It is no essential part of any trial, that
the prisoner should hold up bis hand at the bar ;
there is no Record ever made of it when it is
- * " December 7, 1680. Ordered by the Lords
spiritual and temporal in parliament assembled,
That the thanks of this House be given to the
Lord High Steward, for his speech this day to
the lord" viscount of Stafford in Westminster
Jlall, nt what time his lordship pronounced the
judgment of this House against him. And \m
jordship is hereby desired to print and publish
the same. Jo. Brown, Cleric1 Parliaaientor."
done ; the only use. of it is to shew the Coart
wlid the prisoner is, and when that is apparent,
the Court does often proceed against bin,
though he refuse to hold up bis hand at the
bar ; therefore the omission of that ceremony,
in this case, is no legal exception, as all the
judges hare declared.
" And as to the provisos in the statute of
the 13th year of this king, their lordships do
find that they are in no sort applicable to tbis
case, forasmuch as the proceedings against your
lordship are not grounded upon that statute,
but upon the statute of 25 Edw. 3. And yet
if the proceedings had been upon the latter
statute, the provisos therein could have done
your lordship no service at all.
" My part therefore which remains, is a very
sad one : For I never yet gave sentence of
death upou- any man, and am extremely sorry
that I must begin with your lordship.
" Who would have thought that a person of
your quality, of so noble an extraction, of so
considerable estate and fortune, so eminent a
sufferer in the late ill times, so interested in the
preser\*.iun of the government, so much
obliged to the moderation of it, and so person-
ally obliged to the king and his royal father for
their particular favours to you, should ever
* have eutered into so infernal a conspiracy as
to contrive the murder of the king, the rain
of the state, the subversion of religion, and, as
much as in you lay, the destruction of all the
souls and bodies in three Christian nations?
" Aud yet the impeachment of the House of
Commons amounts to no less a Charge, and
of this Charge their Lordships have found you
Guilty;
" That there hath been a general and des-
perate conspiracy of the Papists, and that the
death of the king hath been all along one chief
part of the conspirators' design, is now appa-
rent beyond all possibility of doubting.
'< What was the meaning of all those trea-
ties which were published about two years
since against the oath of allegiance, in a time
when no man dreamt of such a controversy?
What was the meaning of Father Conyers's
sermon upou the same subject, but only be-
cause there was a demonstration of zeal, as they
call it, intended against the person of the king?
Which the scruples arising from that oath did
somewhat hinder.
" To what purpose were all the correspon-
dencies with foreign nations ? The collections
of monev among the Fathers abroad and at
home ? What was the meaning of their govern-
ing themselves here by such advices as camt
frequently from Paris and St. Omers? And
how shall we expound that letter which came
from Ireland, to assure the Fathers here, that
all things were in a readiness there too, as soon
as the blow should be given ?
" Does any man now begin to doubt how
London came to be burnt* ? Or by what ways
* " Lord Nottingham,- when he gave Judg-
ment, delivered it with one of the best speecbef
15*7]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680.— Kz* Popish Lords. [1558
mnd means poor Justice Godfrey fell ? And is
. it not apparent by these instances, that such is
the frantic zeal of some bigotted Papists, that
they resolve, no means to advance the Catholic
cause shall be left unattempted, though it be
by fire and sword ?
" My lord, as the Plot io general is most
manifest, so your lordship's part in it hath been
too too plain. What you did at Paris, and
continued to do atTixallin Staffordshire, shews
a settled purpose of mind against the king; and
what you said at London touching honest Will,
shews you were acquainted with that conspi-
racy against the king's life which was carrying
on here too : And in all this there was a great
degree of malice; for your, lordship at one
time called the king heretic and traitor 10 God ;
and at another time you reviled him fur mis-
placing his bounty, and rewarding none but
traitors and rebels.
" And thus you see that which the wise man
forewarned you of, is come upon you 5 ' Curse
* not the king, no, not in thy heart : For the
' birds, of the air shall reveal, and that which
* 'hath wings will declare the matter.'
" Three things I shall presume to recom-
mend to your lordship's consideration. In the
first place, your lordship now sees how it hath
pleased G-od to leave you so far to yourself,
that you are fallen into the snare, and into the
pit, into that very pit which you were digging
for others. Consider therefore, that God Al-
mighty never yet left any man, who did not first
leave him.
" In the next place, think a little better of
it than hitherto you have done, what kind of
religion that is, in which the blind guides have
been able to lead you into so much ruin and
destruction as is now like to befal you.
" In the last place, I pray your lordship to
consider, That true repentance is never too
late. A devout penitential sorrow, joined with
an humble and hearty confession, is of mighty
power and efficacy both with God and man.
" There have been some of late who have
refused to give God the glory of his jusiice by
acknowledging the crimes for which they were
condemned ; nay, who have been taught to be-
lieve, that it is a mortal sin to confess that
crime in public, for which tney have been ab-
solved in private, and so have not dared to gire
God that glory which otherwise they would
have done.
" God forbid your lordship should rest upon
forms; God forbid your lordship should be
found among the number of those poor mis-
taken souls, whom the first thing that unde-
ceives is death itself.
" Perhaps your lordship may not much es-
teem the prayers of those whom you have long
been taught to miscall heretics; but whether
---------- - . . - . _
be bad ever made. But be committed one
great indecency in it: for he said, Who can
doubt any longer that London was burned by
Papists, though there was not one word in the
whole Trial relating to that matter." Burnet.
you do or no, I am to assure your lordship,
That all my Lords here, even they that have
condemned you, will never cease to prav for
you, that the end of your life may be Christian
and pious, how- tragical soever the means are^
that must bring you thither.
" And now, my «iord, this is the last, time
that I can call you my lord ; for the next words
I am to speak will attaint you. The Judg-
ment of the Law is, and this Court doth award,
That
" * You go to the place from whence you
i came ; from thence you must be drawn upon
' a hurdle to the place of execution ; When
' you come there, you mast be hanged up by
1 the neck, but not till you are dead ; for you
' must be cut down alive, your privy-members
' must be cut off, and your bowels ript up be*
' fore your face, and thrown into the fire.
' Then your head must be severed 'from your
' body, and your body divided into four quar-
' ters ; and these must be at the disposal of the
' king. And God Almighty be merciful to vour
' soul.' "
Prisoner. My lords, I humbly beseech you
give me leave to speak a few words ; I do give
your lordships hearty thanks for all your favours
to me. I do here, in the presence of God Al-
mighty declare, I have no malice in my heart
to them that have condemned me ; I kuow not
who they are, nor desire to know ; I fyrgive
them all, and beseech your lordships all to
pray for me. My lords, t have one bumble re-
quest to make to your lordships, and that is,
my lords, That the little short time 1 have to
live a prisoner, I may hot be a close prisoner as
I have been of late, but that Mr. Lieutenant
may have an Order that my wife and children
and friends may come at me. I do humbly beg
this favour of your lordships, which I hope you
will be pleased to give me.*
L. H. S. My lord Stafford, I believe I may,
with my lords leave, tell you one thing further,
That my lords, as they proceed with rigour of
justice, so they proceed with all the mercy and
compassion that may be; and therefore my
lords will he humble suitors to the king, that he
will remit all the punishment but the taking off
your head.
Prisoner, (weeping). My lords, your justice
does not make me cry, but your goodness.
* Macp hereon, in what he calls (see the In-
troduction to lord Clarendon's Case, vol. 6, p.
291, of this Work,) " The Life of James the
Second, written by himself," (p. 110.) says,
" Carlisle and Escric had voted Stafford their
kinsman Guilty, yet moved to change his sen-
tence to perpetual banishment. This being re*
jected they desired to see him under pretence
of carrying the bishop of London and Dr.
Burnet to him. They only wanted to get
something out of him against the duke of
York : but the Lords would not allow them to
tee him alone, without a Recorder present, so
their project was disappointed/'
1559] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \6HO.—Proc*dmgi agomrt the [)M
Then the Lord High Steward broke hit staff,
and the Lords adjourned into the Parliament
Chamber, and the Commons returned to their
House, and the prisoner with the axe borne be-
fore him with the edge towards him (it being
carried contrarily during his trial) was sent
back to the Tower.9
* Burnet tells us, that lord Stafford be-
haved himself during the whole time, and at
the receiving his Sentence, with much more
constancy then was expected from him. And
he thus proceeds : " Within two days after
he sent a message to the Lords, desiring that
the bishop of London" fCompton, one of the
Seven ; see their Case, a. d. 1688, infra.] " and
I might be appointed to come to him. We
waited on bim. His design seemed to be only
to possess us with an opinion of his innocence,
of which he made very solemn protestations.
He beard us speak of the points in difference
between us and the Church of Rome with great
temper and attention. At parting he desired
me to come back to him next day ; for be iiad
a mind to be more particular with me. When
I came to him, he repeated the protestations
of his innocence; and said, be was confident
the villainy of the witnesses would soon ap-
pear : he did not doubt I should see it io less
v than a year. I pressed him in several points
v of religion ; and urged several things, which he
said he had never heard before. He said, these
things on another occasion would have made
some impression upon bim ; but he bad now
little time, therefore be would lose none in
controversy; so I let that discourse fall. I
talked to him of those preparations for death
in which all Christians agree: he entertained
these very seriously. He had a mind to live,
if it was possible: he said, he could discover
nothing with relation to the king's life, pro-
testing that there was not so much as an inti-
mation about it that had ever past among
them. But he added, that he could discover
many other things, that were more material
than any thing that was yet known, and for
which the duke would never forgive bim ; and
of these, if that might save his life, he would
make a full discovery. I stopped him when he
was going on to particulars; for I would not
be a confident in any thing io which the pub-
lic safety was concerned. He knew best the
importance of those secrets; and so he could
only judge, whether it would be of that value
as to prevail with the two Houses to interpose
avith the king for his pardon. He seemed to
think it would be of great use, chiefly to sup-
port what they were then driving on with rela-
tion to the duke. He desired me to speak to
lord Essex, lord Russel, and sir William Jones.
I brought him their answer the next day; which
was, that if he did discover all he knew con-
cerning the Papists designs, and more parti-
cularly concerning the duke, they would en-
deavour that it should not be insisted on, that
Jje must confess those particulars for which he
was judged. He asked me, «hat if be should
His majesty afterward ordered the Lord
Hub-Chancellor to issue out under the great
seal of England the following writs for execs*
ting the said late viscount Stafford ; the first
being to the lieutenant of the Tower, to de-
liver bim on the 29th of December 1680, be*
tween nine and eleven o'clock in the forenoon,
' ' ■ ■ - i . . - ^
name some who had now great credit, bat had
once engaged to serve their designs: I said,
nothing could be more acceptable than the
discovering such disguised Papists, or false Pro-
testants : yet upon this I charged him solemnly
not to think of redeeming bis own life by ac-
cusing any other falsely, but to tell the troth,
and all the truth, as far as the common safety
was concerned in it. As we were discoursing
of these matters, the earl of Carlisle came ia.
In his hearing, by lord Stafford's leave, I vest
over all that had passed between us, and did
again solemnly adjure bim to say noting bat
the truth. Upon this lie desired the can of
Carlisle to carry a message from him to ths
House of Lords, that whensoever they would
send for him he woold discover all that he
knew : upon that he was immediately seat air.
And he began with a long relation of their fint
consultations after the Restoration about the
methods of bringing in their religion, which
they all agreed could only be broognt about by
a toleration. He told them of the earl of Bris-
tol's project ; and went on to tell who bad oa»
dertaken to procure the toleration for them:
and then he named the earl of Shaftsbwi.
When he named him he was ordered to with-
draw ; and the Lords would hear no more htm
him. It was also given out, that in this I was
a tool of lord Halifax's to bring him thither to
blast lord Shaftsbury. He was sent back to
the Tower : and then he composed himself ia
the best way he could to suffer, which be did
with a constant and undisturbed sniad: be
supped and slept well the night before his exe-
cution, and died without any shew of fear or
disorder. He denied all that tbe witnesses bad
sworn against him. And this was the end of
the Plot. I was very unjustly censured on
both bands. The earl of Shaftsbury railed so
at me that I went no more near him. And
tbe duke was made believe, that I bad per-
suaded lord Stafford to charge him, and to dis-
cover all he knew against him : which was the
beginning of the implacable hatred be shewed
on many occasions against me. Thus tbe in-
nocentest and best meant parts of a van's life
may be misunderstood, and highly censured.''
It is certainly worthy of attention, that is
the course of this effort to save his life, lord
Stafford did not confess any of, according to
Burnet's expression, " those particulsis Sot
which he was judged." If he had mada web
a confession, it might yet leave many oisdi
unconvinced of his guilt. In bad tuhes, it *o*
surprising confessions of uncommitteo cjrisasi
should be made for tbe purpose of ohuusi*!
mitigation of punishment. With respect to lerd
Bacon's Confession! (See bis case Vol. %, p»t«.)
1 501] STATE TRIALS, 32 Cmaw.es a 1«80.~-J%* Popuh Ltrds.
[MfiS
sit the usual place without the Tower-gate, to
the sheriffs of London and Middlesex ; and the
other being for then then and there to receive
him into their custody, and to lead him to the
usual place upon Tower-hill, and there to caw*
bis head to be cut off, and levered from his
body : which writs were in form following :
' Carulus Secundus Dei gratia Anglia, Scotia),
Francis, et Hiberni* Rex, fidei defensor, ojc.
Locumtenenti Turns nostras London salutem :
Cum Willus Vicecomes Stafford, per Com*
munes Regni uostri Angtia in Parliamento
assemblat', de alta proditione necnon diversis
ajiis criminibus et offensis per ipsum perpetrat'
et commissis, impetit' fuit, ac soperinde per
Dominos Tempor ales in present! Parliamento
nostro convent', triat*, convict' et debita juris
forma attiact' fuit, et mortiadjocat' ezistit;
cujus quidem Judicii executio adhoc restat
facienda. Cumq; prssdictut Vicecomes Staf-
ford in Turri nostra London, sob eustodta tua
detent* existit : Prascipimus tibi et per prav
sentes firmker injungeado mandamus, quod in
et super vicesimum nonum diem instantis
mensisDecemhris, inter boras aonam et unde-
cimam, ante Meridiem ejosjlem diei, ipsum
Vicecomitem Stafford, usq; locum usualem
extra portam Turns praidjctas deoas ; ac ipsum,
Vicecemitibus CivitatRr nostra) London et
Middlesex, adtunc et ibidem deUberes : Qui-
bus quidem Vicecomitibos nos per aliod breve
ma inde direct', pracipimus prodictum Vice-
comitem Stafford adtunc et ibidem recipere,
t^B+-~m*m
there are anecdotes that the
not received by him but by his servants, and
that he was either totally ignorant of them, or
at worst no otherwise blAmeeble than by not
exerting himself to prevent the practice, and
that his confession proceeded merely from an
apprehension of exasperating government, and
aggravating his own punishment by a dental.
Pliny relates au anecdote of this sort : * Con-
' fessus est (sc. Licinianus) quidem incest urn.
* Sed incertum utrum quia vemmerat; an quia
<graviora metoebat, si negasset. Fremebat
* enim Domitianus, sjstuabatque ingenti invi-
* dia, destitutus.— Ceier, cui Cornelia objicie*
* batur, cum in cotnitio virgis caxleretur, in
« b&c voce perstiterat ; Quid feci f Nihil feci.
4 Ardebat ergo Domitianus, et crudelitatis et
' iniquitatis infemia. Arripit Licinianum. Die,
' ab lis quibus erat curse, praemoaetor, si comi*
' tium et virgas pati nollet, ad confesaionem
4 confugeret, quasi ad veniam fecit— Locutus
4 est pro absente Hereonius Senecio, tale quid-
* dam, quale est illod, Kifaw BbtrfMfer : [See the
Iliad, Book 18, line 20.] ' Ait enim, Ex
4 advocato n unci us foetus mm* itaessit Lici-
4 nianus. Gratum hoc Domitiano ; adeo ut
4 gaudie proderetur, diceretque, abeorrit nos
' Licinianus. Adjecit etiam noa esse vete-
* c«mdi» ejus instandum. Ipsi vera persaisitsi
* qua posset ex rebus suis taper* antequam
' bona Buhticareotur, eiiliumque sjiojle, velut
' premium, dedit.'
€ utfiat execotio Jodicunrsidicti, modo et forma
4 profit dictis Vicecomitibus London et Middle*
' sex, per aliud breve nostrum prssdictum pcsj*
' cipimus; Et hoc oullatenua emktas, sub
4 periculo incumbente; aliquo Judicie, Lege,
' Ordinatione, seu mandato prssantea habit',
1 feet', ordinat', seu dat' in contrarium noo ob-
* stante. Teste meipso apud Westm* decimo
* octavo die Decembris, Anno regni nostri
4 tricesimo secnado. Barks*,'
* Carol* s Secundus Dei gratia Anglis, Scotia;,
c Francia>, et Hibernian Rex. fidei defensor, &c.
* Vic. London et Vic. Middlesex salutem : Cum
< Willus Vicecomes Stafford, per Communes
' regni nostri Anglise in Parliamento assemblat',
' de alta proditione, necnon diversis aliis crimi-
' nibus et offensis per ipsum perpetrat' et com*
< missis irapetk' fuit ; ac soperinde per Dominos
* Temporales in prsssenti Parliamento nostro
4 convent', triatus, convict9 et debita juris forma
' attinct' fuit et morti adjudicaf existit; cuius
* quidem Judicii executio adbuc restat mcienda ;
1 Precipimus vobis, et per prsasente* firmiter
€ injungendo mandamus, quod in et super vtoa-
4 simum nonum diem hujusiastantis Deqembris,
4 inter boras nonam et undecimam, ante meri-
<diem ejusdem diei, dictum Vicecomitem
4 Stafford, extra Portam Tunis nostra Londop,
4 vobis tunc et ibidem deliberandum, prout per
4 aliud breve Locumtenenti Tunis nostra*
4 London directum prscepimos, in custodian*
4 vestram adtunc et ibidem recipiatts, et ipsum
' sic in custodia vestra existentem, statim usque
4 usualem locum super le Tower-hill ducaus ;
* ac caput ipsius Willi. Vicecomitis Stafford,
4 adtunc et ibidem amputari, ac a corpere suo
' omnino separari faciatis ; aliquo Judicio, Lege,
'Ordinatione, seu Mandato pramntea habit',
4 fact', ordinal', seu dat' in contrarium, non ob*
' stante : Et hoc (sqb periculo incumbente)
4 nullatenus omittatb. Teste meipso apud
' Westm. decimo octavo die Decembris, Anno
' regni nostri tricesimo secundo. Ba axze.'
There were two Wriu to the 8hori% both
alike verbatim, one delivered in London, the
other in Middlesex.
Whereupon the Sheriffs doubting whether
that was a sufficient authority for them to exe-
cute the prisoner by beheading only, the sen-
tence of death being otherwise civen, petitioned
the Lords in parhament to take the premises
into consideration, and to make such Order at
should he agreeable to right and justice, as by
the following Petition appears.
' To the Right Honourable the Lords Temporal
in Parliament assembled ; the bumble Pe*
tition'of Slingshy Bethel, esq.; and Henry
Cornish* esq.; sherifls of London and
Middlesex :
' She*eth; That your petitioners btnw re*
' ceiied a writ under thw great seal of England,
' reciting, that judgment had been given by
' your lordships against WiUiam viscount Staf-
'ford, for Hwb*Treason, and divers other
' crimes and offences, upon the Impeacbsmeat
1503] * STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. \M0.— Proceedings against the [1564
him. And accordingly, he wm delivered to
the sheriffs between the gates mod the hart.
Before the prisoner came, several people
were upon the scaffold, among which were two
appointed to write. The headsman came up
with two blocks, one old, one new, in a bag;
also the axe covered with a cloth, foe new
block Using taken out, was covered over
with black, and laid upon a piece of black
bays, about two yards and a half long, upon
which the prisoner was to stretch himself.
Then the coffin was brought up, being coloured
with two letters, W.S. 1680. Then the prisoner
came upon the scaffold, and asked for the exe-
cutioner; upon his appearing, he asked him,
If he had received money for the doatbs?
being answered, No, his man took oat a pane
of 51., which the headsman objected against,
and the prisoner gave him two guineas more.
After a short pause, he* stepped to one side of
the scaffold, and taking a Paper out of his
pocket, read it as his Speech, [Which came oot
the very same day, before two of the clock, in
print, as his Speech] and was as follows:
" By the permission of Almighty God, I am
this day brought • hither to suffer death, as if
I were guilty of high-treason. I do mosttrnlr,
in the presence of the eternal, omnipotent, and
all-knowing God, protest, upon mv salvation,
That I am as innocent as k is possible for any
man to be, so much as in a thought, of the
crimes laid to my charge.
" I acknowledge it to be a particular grace
and favour of the Holy Trinity, to have given me
this long time to prepare myself for eternity.
I have not made so good use of that grace as 1
ought to have done, partly by my not having
so well recollected myself as I might have doae,
and partly, because not only my friends, bat
my wife and children have for several days been
forbidden to see me, but in the presence of one
of iny warders. This hath been a great trouble
and distraction unto me, but I hope God of his
infinite mercy will pardon my defects, and ac-
cept of my good intentions.
" Since my long imprisonment, I have coo-
sidrred often, what could be the original cause
of my being thus accused, since I knew my-
self not culpable, so much aa io a thought; and
I cannot believe it to be upon any other ac-
count than my being of the church of Rome.
I have no reason to be ashamed of my religion,
for it teacheth nothing but the right worship of
God, obedience to the king, and due subordina-
tion to the temporal laws of the kingdom.
And I do submit to all articles of faith believed
and taught io the Catholic church, believing
them to be most consonant to the word of God.
And -whereas it hath so much and often been
objected, That the church holds that sovereign
princes, excommunicated by the pope, may,
by their subjects, be deposed ot murdered: As
to the murder of princes, I have been taught as
a matter of faith in the Catholic church, that
such doctrine is diabolical, horrid, detestably
and contrary to the law of God, nature, ana
nations ; and as such, from my heart I it-
4 of the Commons in Parliament assembled, and
* commanding your Petitioners to cause the
4 said viscount Stafford's head to be severed
4 from his body upon the 99th day of this in-
4 stant Dec., notwithstanding any judgment,
' law, ordinance, or command to the contrary :
4 That your Petitioners have not as yet re-
' ceived any command from your lordships for
* executing the said judgment. May it there-
4 fore please your lordships to take the premises
* into consideration, and to make such order
'therein, as shall be agreeable to right and jus-
' tice. And your Petitioners shall pray, &c/
Upon which the Lords did declare as follow eth :
December 21, 1680.
* Upon application from the sheriffs of
' London aud Middlesex, making some scru-
' ,ples concerning the execution of the late lord
V viscount Stafford, which were' found by this
* House to be unnecessary, this House do de-
' clare,That the king's writ ought to be obeyed.**
The said sheriffs likewise made application to
the House of Commons upon the aforesaid mat-
ter, who made the following resolve :
December 23, 1680.
' Resolved, &c. That this House is content
''that the Sheriffs of London and Middlesex
' do execute William late viscount Stafford, by
' severing bis head from his body only/
Accordingly, on the Wednesday following,
being she 29th of December, between nine and
ten in the forenoon, the two sheriffs, with a con-
siderable number of gentlemen on horseback,
went to the Tower-gate, .and there demanded
William Howard, late viscount Stafford ; when a
gentleman belonging to the Lieutenant of the
Tower, told the Sheriffs, That the Lieutenant
would wait on them presently, and bring the
prisoner to the bars: To which the sheriffs
answered, That they must preserve the privi-
leges and bounds of the city : An officer re-
plied, * Sir, We were ordered to draw up two
companies from the gate to the bar, and there
you are to receive the prisoners .'
Sheriffs. Gentlemen, we will preserve the
liberties of the city: And we are come at the
gate to demand the prisoner ; whether the
Lieutenant will deliver him or no, we demand
* For the debates in the House of Commons
concerning the king's power to vary the execu-
tion, see 4 Cobbett's Pari. Hist. 1261. Mr.
Fox speaking of the fatality as it were, with which
in the transactions relative to the Popish Plot
men's minds, were divested of all their wonted
sentiments of justice and humanity ; observes,
that " even after the condemnation of Stafford,
lord Russel himself, whose character is wholly
(this instance excepted) free from the stain of
rancour or cruelty stickled for the severer mode
of executing the sentence, in a manner which
his fear of the king's establishing a precedent
of pardoning in cases of impeachment, (for this
no doubt was his motive) cannot satisfactorily
excuse." Fox's James II,
6
1565]
STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 16$0.~Five Popish Lords.
[I5G«
nounce and abominate- it. ' As for the doctrine
of deposing princes, I know some divines of
the catholic church hold it ; but as able and
learned as they have writ against it : But it was
not pretended to be the doctrine of the church,
that it, any point of catholic faith : Wherefore
I do here in my conscience declare, that it is
my true and real judgment, that the same doc-
trine of deposing kings, is contrary to the
fundamental laws of this kingdom, injurious to
sovereign power, and consequently would be in
me or any other of bis majesty's subjects, impi-
ous and damnable. I believe and profess, that
there isoue God, one Saviour, one Holy Catho-
lic Church, of which, through the mercy, grace,
and goodness of God, I die a member.
"To my great. and unspeakable grief, I have
offended God in many things, by many great
offences ; but I give him most humble thanks,
not in any of those crimes of which I was ac-
cused.
^ All the members of either House having
liberty to propose in the House what they
think fit for the good of the kingdom ; accord-
ingly* I proposed what I thought fit ; the
House is judge of the fitness or unfitness of it ;
and I think I never said any thing that was un-
fitting there, or contrary to the law and use of
parliament ; for certainly if I had, the Lords
would (as I hey might) have punished me : so
mm not culpable before God or man.
" It . is much reported of indigencies, dis-
pensations, and pardons, to murder, rebel, lie,
forswear, and commit such other crimes held
and given in the church ; I de here profess, in
the presence of God, I never learnt, believed,
or practised any such thing, but the contrary ;
and I speak this without any equivocation or
reservation whatsoever : and certainly, were
I guilty, either myself, or knew of any one that
were guilty whosoever that were so, of any of
those crimes of which I am accused, I were not
only the greatest fool imaginable, but a perfect
road-man, and as wicked as any of those that
so falsly have accused me, if i should not dis-
cover any. ill design I knew in any kind, arid
so upon discovery save my life, I have so often
had so fair occasions proposed unto roe, and so
am guilty of self-murder, which is a most griev-
pns and heinous sin ; and though I was at last
impeached at the Lords bar, yet I have great
grounds to believe, that I was first brought to
trial, on the belief, that to save my life, I would
make some great discovery ; and truly so I
would, had I known any such thing of "any ill
design, or illegal dangerous Plot, either of my-
self, or any other person whatsoever, without
any exception. But had I a thousand lives,
I would lose them all, rather than falsly
accuse either myself or any other whatsoever.
And, if I had known of any treason, and
should thus deny it, as I do now upon my sal-
vation at this time, I should have no hope of
salvation, which now I have, through the
merits of Christ Jesos.
" I do beseech God to bless his majesty, who
is my lawful king and sovereign, whom I was
always, by all laws human and divine, bound to
obey ; and I am sure that no power on earth,
either singly, or altogether, can legally allow
me, or any body else, to lift up a hand against
him or his legal authority. I do hold, that the
constitution of the government of this kingdom
is the only way to continue peace and quiet-
ness, which God long continue.
" Next to treason, I hold murder in abhor-
rence, and have ever done and do; and I do
sincerely profess, that if I could at this time free
myself immediately, and establish what religion
I would, and what government I would, and
make myself as great as I could wish, and all
by the death of one of these fellows, that by
their perjuries have brought me to the place
where I am, I so much abhor to be the cause
of any man's death, that I would not any way
be the cause of their murder ; how much less
would I endeavour the assassination of his ma-
jesty, whom I hold to be as gracious a king as
ever this, or any other nation had, and under
whom the people may enjoy their liberties, as
much as ever any did ? And if it please God
to graut him life and happiness, according as I
have always wished and prayed for, I am mo-
rally persuaded, that he, and all his dominions,
will be as happy and prosperous as ever people
were, which I beseech God grant.
" I do most humbly ask pardon of the Al-
mighty and All-merciful God, for ell the great
offences I have committed against bis divine
majesty ; and I know he would not have the
death and confusion of a sinner, but that he
may repent and live ; in that assurance I hope,
knowing he never despiseth a contrite heart ;
and though I have not so feeling a contrition
as I would, yet I have it as well as I can, and
I doubt not but that God will accept of the*
good-; will.
" I do desire that all people will forgive me
any injury that I have done them in any thing,
either wilfully or by chance ; and I do heartily
forgive all people in this world that have in-
jured me; I forgive even those perjured men;
that so falsely have brought me hither by their
perjuries.
" I do now upon my death and salvation
aver, That I never spoke one word either to
Oates or Turbervile, or, to my knowledge, ever
saw them until my trial ; and for Dugdale, I
never spoke unto him of any thing, but about a
foet-boy, or foot-man, or foot-race ; and never
was then alone with him : all the punishment
that I wish them, is, that they may repent and
acknowledge the wrong that they have done
me; then it will appear how innocent I am :
God forgive them f I have a great confidence
that it will please Almighty God, and that he
will, in a short time, bring truth to light ; then
you, and all the world, will see and know what
injury they have done me.
" I hope that I have made it appear that I
have some conscience ; for if I had none, cer-
tainly I would have saved my life, by acknow-
ledging myself guilty; which I could have
done, though I Know I am not in the least
15C7] STATE TRIALS, 32 Csuftxu II. 1680.— Prrxxtdmgs agam* the [IMS
guilty. And I having some conscience, make
very ill use of it, for I throw mjielf into eternal
pain, by thus plainly and constantly denying at
mv death, the knowledge of what lam accused
or in the least.
" I have said thus much in discharge of my
conscience, and do averr upon my salvation,
what I have said to be really true.
" I shall say little of mv trial ; and whether
it were all according to the known law, I am
too much a party to say much of it: if it were
not so, God forgif e him or them that were the
cause of it.
" My judges were all persons' of honour,
who were all as much bound to judge rightly,
as if they had been upon oath upon what was
legally proved ; and not to vote but according
as in their consciences they were satisfied ; and
if any of them did otherwise, upon any account
whatsoever, I beseech God forgive them, I do
heartily.
" I shall end with my hearty prayers for the
happiness of his majesty, that he may enjoy all
happiness in this world and the world to come,
and govern his people according to the Jaws
of God ; and that the people may be sensible
what a blessing God hath so miraculously given
them, and obey him as they ought. I ask
pardon with a prostrate heart of Almighty God,
tor all the great offences that I have committed
against his divine majesty, anil hope, through
the merits and passion of Christ Jesus, to ob-
tain everlasting happiness, into whose hands I
commit my spirit, asking pardon of every per-
son that I have done any wrong unto ; I do
freely forgive all that have any ways wronged
me ; I do, with all the devotion and repentance
that I can, humbly invoke the mercy of our
blessed Saviour.
" I beseech God not to revenge my innocent
blood upon the nation, or on those that were
the cause of it, with my last breath. I do with
my last breath truly assert my innocency, end
hope the omnipotent, all-seeing, just God will
deal with me accordingly."
His Speech being ended, he delivered several
copies signed with his own hand, to Mr. Sheriff
Coroiaht an<* other gentlemen about him ; one
whereof, wrote with his own hand, he sent to
the king. He then desired he might have li-
berty to pray in his own way, which being
granted, he kneeled down by the block, and
taking out of bis pocket another paper, be read
a Latin prayer ; which done, be gave the paper
to Mr. Sheriff Bethel, and then spoke to the
people about the scaffold to this effect ; " God
bless you, gentlemen; God preserve his ma-
jesty ; he h as good a prince as ever governed
you 9 obey him as faithfully as 1 have done,
and God bless you all, gentlemen." Then a
minister applied himself, and said, ' Sir, do
you disown the indigencies of the Romish
Church P To which he answered with greet
passion, * Sir, What have you to do with my
religion ? However, I do say, that the Church
of Rome allows no indulgences for murder,
lying, &c. and whatever I have said is true.*
Minister. Have you received no absolution ?
Antw. I have received none at all.
Minisltr. You said that yon never saw
those witnesses ?
Anno. I never saw any of them hot Dog-
dale, and that was at a time when I spoke to
him about a foot-boy.
Then turning about to his friends, he distri-
buted among them his watch, two rings off his
fingers, his staff, and his crucifix from off his
neck ; and his gentleman stripping him of • his
coat and peruke, put on his head a silk cap;
and having accommodated his hair, shirt and
waistcoat for the execution, he mid down has
neck on the block and stretched himself.
The Executioner being demanded by the
Sheriffs, Whether he had any sign, be answered,
No. Whereupon the prisoner rose up, and
asked, What they wanted : to which it was an-
swered, Wbartigt^will you give?
Anm. No sign at all : take your own tame ;
God's will be done.
Whereupon the Executioner said, ' I hope
yon forgive me :' he made answer, ' I do.*
Then lying down again, the executioner at one
blow severed his head from his body, save only
a small part of the skin and wind-pipe, which
was immediately cut off with a knife. After
which, the headsman holding up the head in
his band, carried it about the scaffold, shewing
it to the people, and saying, * Here is the head
of a Traitor. The corpse with the bead were
pot into a coffin, and conveyed to the Tower,
where they were interred.
House of Couuov$>aPecembtr SO, 1680.
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to
prepare Evidence against the Lords in the
Tower, do look into the Evidence against the
Four Popish Lords in the Tower ; and do re-
port their opinions to the House, in order to
the farther directions and proceedings of the
House against them.
January 5, 1081.
The House being informed, That one Bow-
yer was, upon intimation given by the Com-
mittee appointed to prepare Evidence again*
the Popish Lords in the Tower, taken into cus-
tody :
Ordered, That the said Bowyer be delivered
into the hands of the serjeant at arms attend-
ing this House ; and that he be brought to the
bar of this House to-morrow morning at ten or
the clock, io order to his examination.
House of Loans, May 21, 1685.
The Houte being made acquainted, That
those Lords who were committed bv iL«j
1 560] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles If. 1680.—!%* Popish Lords. [1570
your lordships the first day of the sitting of the
next parliament, as may appear by the recogni-
zance which (as your Petitioner is informed) is
now brought op to your lordships by the lord
chief justice of the King's- Bench*— That, in
pursuance of the said recognisance, your Peti-
tioner doth now present himself before your
lordships ; humbly praying, that your lordships
will be pleased to take into your considerations
the case of your Petitioner (who has the honour
to be one of the members of your House), and
to grant him a speedy relief against his long
and tedious imprisonment, either by trial, or by
such other ways as your lordships shall judge
most convenient ; and that in the mean time
your lordships will be pleased, either to order
the continuation of the said bail under which
your Petitioner now stands, or to direct such
other bail as your lordships shall think fit. And
your Petitioner shall pray, &c. Dan by/'
The House hereupon made the en&uing Or-
der : " Upon reading the Petition of William
earl of Powis, Henry lord Arundel of Warder,
and 'John lord fiellasis ; as also the Petition of
Thomas earl of Danby; shewing, that they
have been prisoners several years, and are now
ready to make their appearance; they were
called in, and made their personal appearance
at the bar: It is thereupon ordered, by the
Lords spiritual and temporal in parliament as-
sembled, That the appearance of the said earl
of Powis, lord Arundel of Warder, lord Bellasis,
and earl of Danby, be, and is hereby, recorded;
and that the said earl of Powis, lord Arundel,
lord Bellasis, and earl of Danby, do attend un-
til this House, upon their several cases, shall
take further order."
House to the Tower,' upon Impeachments of
Treason from the House of Commons, have en-
tered into recognizances, to appear before this
House the first day of the next parliament,
-which is this day ; and that the said lords are
attending accordingly : the earl of Powis, earl
of Danbj, the lord Arundel of Warder, and the
lord Bellasis, were called to the bar, and made
their personal appearance; and then were cora-
i&anoed to withdraw.
Which being done, a Petition was presented,
from the earl of Powis, the lord Arundel, and
the lord Bellasis ; and another Petition from
the earl of Danby ; which the House received,
and commanded to be read, as follow :
** To the right hon. the Lords spiritual and
temporal in Parliament assembled. The
humble Petition of the right hon. William
earl of Powis, Henry lord Arundel of
Warder, and John lord Bellasis. i
" Humbly sheweth ; That your Petitioners,
by several commitments of high treason, were
sent prisoners to the Tower of Loudon, in or
about the month of October, in the year of our
Lord 1678, upon the single testimony of Titus
Oates, who, upon several trials, stands now de-
tected and convicted of perjury, in those very
matters upon which he most maliciously framed
his accusation against your Petitioners. — That
jour Petitioners are and were always innocent
of those detestable treasons laid to their
charges, and of all traitorous designs and con-
spiracies whatsoever. — That they hope your
lordships are fully satisfied of their innocence ;
notwithstanding they continue still under the
same imprisonment, without any prospect of
enlargement bat from your lordships justice. —
Wherefore, forasmuch as it lies in the power of
your lordships to grant them a speedy enlarge-
ment, they humbly pray your lordships would
he pleased to order that your Petitioners may
he forthwith discharged, and in such manner as
the mnocency and honour of your Petitioners
may be vindicated to posterity. And they shall
ever pray, &c. Powis, Hem. Arundel, Be-
LAS16."
Next, was read the earl of Danby's Petition.
" To the right hon. the Lords spiritual and
temporal in Parliament assembled. The
humble Petition of Thomas earl of Danby.
u Most humbly sheweth ; That your Peti-
tioner hath been detained a prisoner almost five
years in the Tower of London, videlicet, from
the 16th of April, 1679, to the 12th of February,
1683-4, upon an Impeachment brought against
your Petitioner, on bare suggestions of crimes,
without any oath or affidavit whatsoever made
against your Petitioner. — That your Petitioner
did eften, during that time, endeavour to have
procured bail, to appear and answer before
your lordships to atriy crime which should be
•objected against him ; but could never obtain
she same, until the 12th of February, 1683-4,
at which time he was bailed to appear before
VOL, VII.
May 22.
Upon consideration of the cases of the earl
of Powis, lord Arundel of Wardour, the lord
Bellasis, and the earl of Danby, contained in
their petitions : after some debate ; This ques-
tion was proposed ; " Whether the order of
the 19th of March, 1678-9, shall be reversed
and annulled, as to impeachments ?" The ques-
tion being put, " Whether this Question shall
be now put ?" It was resolved in the affirmative.
Then, the question was put, " Whether the
order of the 19th of March, 1678-9, shall be
reversed and annulled, as to impeachments ?"
It was resolved in the affirmative.
" DUsentiente, John Earl of Radnor/'
The earl of Anglesey, before the putting of
the abovesaid question, desired leave of the
House to enter his dissent, if the question were
carried in the affirmative ; which was granted.
Several other Lords desired leave to enter
their Dissents :
" According to the right of peers to enter
their Dissent and Protestation against any vote
propounded and resolved upon any question in
parliament, we do enter our Dissent and Pro-
testation to the aforesaid vote or resolution ;
for these reasons, among many others ; 1. Be-
cause it doth, as we conceive, extrajudicially,
and without a particular cause before us. en-
5H
1571] STATE TRIALS, 32 Charles II. 1680 Proceedings against the [ 15*9
I
deavour an alteration in a judicial rule and
order of the House in the highest point of their
power and judicature. 2. Because it shakes
and lays aside an order made and renewed
upon long consideration, debate, report of
committees, precedents, and former resolutions,
without permitting the same to be read, though
called for by many of the peers, against weigh-
ty reasons, as we conceive, appearing for the
same, and contrary to the practice of former
times. 3. Because it is inherent in every court
of judicature, to assert and preserve the former
rules of proceedings before them, which there-
fore must be steady and certain ; especially in
this high court ; that the subject and alt per-
sons concerned may know how to apply them-
selves for justice : the very Chancery, King's-
bench* &c. have their settled rules and stand-
ing orders, from which there is no variation.
Anglesey. Clare. Stamford/'
May 27.
A Bill was offered to the House, by the
king's allowance, and signed by his majesty ;
. which was received, and read the first time. It
was entitled, " An Act fur reversing of the
lord viscount Stafford's Attainder*."
* In the year 1800, certain proceedings were
instituted on behalf of lady An astasia Stafford
Howard, and sir William Jernjngham, in re-
spect of their interests in two baronies of Staf-
ford : and recourse was had to the advice of
Mr. Hargrave, who upon the occasion em-
ployed the acuteness of his sagacity, the jm-
weariedness of his diligence, and the copious-
ness of his learning, with that high degree of
-zeal and power, by which his professional exer-
tions are so eminently characterised. He com-
posed a very full and learned disquisition, of
which a few copies were printed, with the title
of, " Opinion and Argument of Mr. Hargrave,
as to the Right of Lady Anastasia Stafford
Howard,- to the New Barony of Stafford, under
the Letters Patent of 16th of King Charles the
First, notwithstanding the Attainder of her An-
cestor, Lord Viscount Stafford, in 1680, for
Treason, in being concerned in the alledged
Popish Plot : Including Remarks on the Origin
and Pvoi;ress of that memorable Accusation,
and on his Lordship's Trial and Execution,
made with a view to assist an Application for
obtaining an Act of Parliament to reverse such
Attainder. [Written in the year 1800.J"
Through the kindness of lord Erskine and Mr.
Hargrave, I possess a copy of this work, which
it is to be hoped the learned author will, at a
proper time, communicate to the world. A
very brief exhibition of the topics discussed in
it, will suffice to shew the interesting and im-
portant nature of its consents.
Mr. Hargrave first considers, Whether a
• barony be such a tenement * within the statute
* It is said, the reason of a certain place
from whence to take the title, was to make an
estate-tail within the statute De Denis, which
roll
June 1. m*ihi.<j
This House being moved, on the behalf^: ^P1
veral peers of this House, which were ball" 1;
the appearance of William earl of Powis, Tb$-'
mas earl of Danby, Henry lord Arundel of
W ardour, John lord Bellasis, -and Richard earl
of Tyrone in the kingdom of Ireland, in this
De Donis, that a grant of it to a man and hit
wife, as joint-tenants in. special tail, is good.
And as to this, he expresses his opinion in toe
affirmative. He then proceeds to examine
whether, upon supposition that such a grant a
good, the attainder of lord Stafford would, in-
dependently of the statutes of 26 Hen. 8, c IS,
and 5 and 6 Edw. 6, c. 11, be a forfeiture of
the barony of Stafford, as against his wife the
cograntee in joint- tenancy (who survived him},
and as against her issue by his lordship. And
as to this he delivers his opinion, 1. That under
the operation of tlie law of forfeiture, upon es-
tates of inheritance, previously to the statute
De Doniiy that attainder would not be such i
forfeiture, independently of the statutes SO E
8, and 5 and 6 Edw. 6 : but SndJy, That if the
case were otherwise, the statute De Doim
would unquestionably prevent that attainder
from operating such forfeiture. He nest en-
quires whether those two statutes of 26 rL 8,
c. 13, and 5 and 6 Edw. 6, c. 1 1, so extend
the laws of forfeiture, as to superinduce such
forfeiture of the barony as against lady Stafford
and her issue by lord Stafford. And in the
prosecution of this enquiry, he makes two
questions : First, Whether the two statutes of
26 Hen. 8, and of 5 and 6 lidw. 6, extend the
pre-existing law of forfeiture of inheritances for
high treason, in cases of joint tenancy : and
Secondly, Whether the enactments for forfei-
ture of inheritance in the two statutes of 36 II.
8, and 5 and 6 Edw. 6, apply to cases of at-
tainder of high (reason, on an impeachment by
the House of Commons. He resolves in the
negative both these questions ; and as to toe
former of them he thinks it more especially
clear, that those statutes cannot properly be
construed to deprive a wife of her rights of sur-
vivorship, ia the particular case of a joint in-
heritance constituted in husband and wife after
marriage.
Mr. Hargrave afterwards notices other
grounds, which might be taken in favour of the
claims of lady Anastasia S. Howard and sir W.
Jerningham: 1st. As to the distinction be-
tween an ordinary hereditament which is aliens-
exteuds only to limitations which concern lands
and tenements, and therefore without naming
some place, a limitation of an honour to one
and the heirs males of his body, would be a
fee-simple conditional at common law, and u
so would be forfeited by attainder of felony, as
an estate-tail of a baronetship, which is not
created of any place. See 12 Co. 81. 12 Mod.
57. But see also Cruise on Dignities, ch, % »•
1— 6> s. 72, 73, 74.
2
1&73] STATE TRIALS, 32 Chables II. 16S0.— Five EopUh Lorded [UM
•use, upon the first day of the meeting of this
1 - en t, which recognizances were entered
*.. • his majesty's court of King's Bench, and
< ned by Certiorari into this House ; as also
. the discbarge of the said earl of Powis, earl
of Danby, lord Arundel, lord Bellasis, and
ble by fine, and a title of honour which is not
so alienable.41
9. As to the operation of the peculiar words
* respective ' and * respectively/ both of which
are u«»ed, and the former of which is very fre-
quently repeated in the grant by Charles the
First, of the barony of Stafford to husband and
wife in special tail.
But into these he docs not enter.
3. As to apparent error on the record of
the attainder of lord Stafford.
This last ground consists of two parts, (ex-
clusive of Mr. Margrave's doubts concerning an
attainder on an impeachment, tried -after dis-
solution of the parliament iu which it was
made), of which one is that according to the
recital of the judgment of attainder [See this
recital in the warrant of execution, p. 1569.]
the judgment against lord Stafford was neither
By the King, nor By the King and Lords, nor
even with the least mention of or reference
to him, but By the Lords, and Them only :
and the other is that the judgment by the Lords
is not By the Lords Temporal and Spiritual, or
By the Lords generally, but exclusively By the
Lords Temporal.
Upon these two points Mr. Hargrave does
not pronounce any definite opinion : nor does
he engage in the ancillary disquisitions, into
the nature of the judicature of parliament; the
regality of the crown in that respect ; the na-
ture of that judicature in the particular case of
an impeachment by the Commons ; the extent
of the regality of the King in parliament ; the
share of the Spiritual Lords in the judicative
functions of the Upper House. He contents
himself with the recital of two antient cases,
to shew that neither of the two error* which he
suggests are without precedent. Mr. Hargrave
next adverts to the consideration, whether there
is any such limitation of time for petitions of
error to the king in parliament, as might make
it too late to proceed for the reversal of the at-
tainder of lord Stafford in that way : and he
concludes with a very able critical review of
the history of the Popish Plot ; including many
important details illustrative of the proceedings
against lord Stafford, together with a display of
the illustrious descents of that lord and of his
wife.
From the short account, which I have thus
given of Mr. Hargrave's " Opinion and Argu-
ment," every lawyer will immediately per-
ceive, how extremely interesting and how high*
ly valuable must be such a work, executed by
such a master.
* See Purbeck's Case, Lords' Journals, June
18, 1678. See too Cruise oo Dignities, ch. 4,
9.57.
earl of Tyrone: It is ordered, That the said
William earl of Powis, Thomas earl of Dan by,
Henry lord Arundel of Wardour, John lord
Bellasis, and Richard earl of Tyrone, as also
all persons, peers or others, that were bail for
the appearance of the said lords upon the said
recognizances, be, and are hereby, discharged.
JuneS.
The House was put into a committee, to pro-
ceed in the consideration of the Bill for revers*
ing the attainder of the lord viscount Stafford.
The House .was resumed.
The earl of Bridgewater reported, " That the
committee of the whole House were in further
consideration of the Bill for reversing the at-
tainder of the lord viscount Stafford, and were
reading of records, which would take up some
time; but the committee understanding there
was a message from the House of Commons of
great concern, were willing the House might he
resumed, to receive the said message; and
then desired the House would appoint another
time for the House to be put into a committee
again."
The House ordered, the committee of the
House should sit again, after the receiving of
the message.
The House was again adjourned into a com-
mittee, to proceed in consideration of the busi-
ness which was debated before the message.
The House was resumed. And the earl of
Bridgwater reported " That the committee of
the whole House have considered the bill for
reversing the attainder of the lord viscount
Stafford ; and have made some alterations in
the title, a considerable amendment in the pre-
amble, and a small amendment in the enacting
clause. • The opinion of the committee is, That
the bill do pass with the said amendments."
The amendments were read twice; and the
House agreed to the said amendments. Then
the question was put, " Whether this hill with
the amendments, shall be engrossed ?" It was
resolved in the affirmative.
The earl of Anglesea and some lords desired
leave, before the question was put, to enter
their dissents, if the question were carried in the
affirmative.
" 1. Because the assertion in the bill, of its
being now manifest that the viscount Stafford
died innocent, and that the testimony on which
he was convicted was false, which are the sole
grounds and reasons given to support the bill,
are destitute of all proof, warrant, or matter of
record before us. 2. That the record of the
Kiog's-bench, read at the committee concern-
ing the conviction, last term, of one of the wit-
nesses for perjury, in collateral points of proo£
of no affinity to the lord Stafford's trial,
and given several years before, it is conceived,
can be no ground to invalidate the testimony
upon which the said viscount was convicted :
which could never legally be by one witness,
and was, in fact, by the judgment of his peers
on the evidence of at least three. 8. It is con-
ceived, the said judgment in the King's bench,
1575]
STATE TRIALS, S3 Charles II. \6&0.— Proceedings, %c.
[1576
and the whole proceedings was unprecedented,
illegal, and unwarranted, highly derogatory to
the honour, judicature, and authority of this
court, who have power to question and punish
perjuries of witnesses before them, and ought
not to be imposed upon by the judgments of in-
ferior courts, or their attainders of a peer inva-
lidated by implication ; and the popish plot, so
condemned, pursued, and punished by his late
majesty and four parliaments, after public so-
lemn devotion through the whole kingdom, by
authority of church and state, to be eluded, to
the arraignment and scandal of the government
and only to the restoring of the family of one
popish lord ; and all this being without any
matter judicially appearing before us to induce
the same, and the records of that Trial not suf-
fered to be read for information of the truth
before the passing of the bill. — Lastly, For ma-
ny other weighty reasons offered and given by
divers peers in two days debate of this bill, both
in the committees and the House. Anglbsea."
June 4.
The Bill was read the third time. The
question being put, " Whether this bill shall
pass ?" It was resolved in the affirmative. Se-
veral lords desired leave to enter their Dissents
to (his question : .
" Diuentiente, Radnor."
" I, Anglesey, protest against this bill's pass-
ing, for the same reasons entered the day be-
fore.
" I protest against this bill, because the
preamble was not amended, and no defect in
point of law alledged as a reason for the rever-
sal of the attainder. Clare, Stamford, R.
Eure."
In the House of Commons the Bill
a firbt rime on the 5th of June, a second time oa
the next day, and ordered to be committed on
the 19th of June, but I have not met with any
mention of further proceeding Upon it. On the
4th of August the House adjourned to the 9th
of November, when they met and sat till the
20th, they were then prorogued, and during
the remainder of king James's Reign, Parliament
never met to do business.
Notwithstanding what Burnet says of bishop
Lloyd's report concerning the apparent sinceri-
ty of Praunce, [See vol. 6, p. 1424,1 who was a
principal witness against lord Stafford, k ap-
pears that he was upon his own confession
convicted of perjury in wilfully forswearing
himself at the trials of Robert Green, Law-
rence Hill, and Henry Berry, &c. in relation to
the murder of sir £dmundbury Godfrey, see p.
228, of this Volume. Mr. Hargrave caused to
be taken a copy of the record of. Praunce's con-
viction, and very obligingly would have com-
municated it for insertion in this place : bat it
had been mislaid, and his search for it was un-
successful.
END OF VOL. VII.
ii ■ - « i a;
Printed by T. C. Hamtrd, Peterborough-Court,
Fl«*»t -Street, IiOixion.
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