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2332 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
is no longer so invisible. There have been defections from this empire.
The Federal Communications Commision has undertaken a study of
the misuse of citizens band radios, and I am sure that other agencies
of the executive branch will want to take action as a result of some of
the facts developed by the committee. It is our intention, in due time,
to submit certain parts of our record to the Internal Revenue Service,
the FCC, and the Veterans Administration, for example, for appro-
priate action. We are also considering, of course, the recommenda-
tion of contempt citations.
Our hearings are far from completed at this point, but I believe
we have developed many facts of great significance for the record,
and that by the time the hearings are ended, the Congress will have all
the facts it needs for purposes of remedial legislation.
The witnesses subpenaed to appear before the committee today are
continued under subpena until January 4, 1966.
The committee stands adjourned until further call of the Chair.
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Willis, Pool, and Weltner.)
(Whereupon, at 1 :25 p.m., Tuesday, November 9, 1965, the subcom-
mittee adjourned, to reconvene at the call of the Chair.)
o
3 u -^
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES
PART 3
L^J-ATES GUVERNMENI
DEC 21 t96/
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
JANUARY 4-7, 11-14, 18, AND 28, 1966
(INDEX IN SEPARATE VOLUME)
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Un-American Activities
CONTENTS
January 4, 1966: Testimony of— Page
John Deason Swenson 2334
Afternoon session:
John Deason Swenson (resumed) 2359
Murrv H. Martin 2362
Lloyci Grady Wilder 2394
Henrv I. Bayles 2400
Billy Skipper 2405
January 5, 1966: Testimony of —
Ralph Blumberg 2415
Charles Horton Christmas 2438
Afternoon session:
Charles Horton Christmas (resumed) 2444
Saxon Farmer 2459
John INIagee 2464
Dewey Bernard Smith 2470
January 6, 1966: Testimony of —
Russell E. Magee.' 2521
James M. Ellis, Jr 2525
Randle C. Pounds 2529
Eric Peterson 2532
Afternoon session:
James W. (Pete) Holden 2543
Willie Houston Burke 2544
Albert Laf tman Applewhite 2547
Ewell William Rowley 2550
Kinch Wilson Miley 2554
Robert Earl Stallings 2556
Houston Pierce Morris 2561
Robert William Fuller 2563
Houston Pierce Morris (resumed) 2572
January 7, 1966: Testimony of —
Robert T. ResterA 2577
B. J. "Jack" Saucier 2580
Willis James Kidd 2584
Jack M. Helm 2585
Lloyd H. Barnett 2593
Marvin Curtis Brister 2596
Tommy Frank Reagan 2604
January 11, 1966: Testimony of- —
John Hugh Gipson 2609
Afternoon session:
George Gill Harris, Jr 2626
Bobby Gene Kelley 2635
James Malcolm Edwards 2639
January 12, 1966: Testimony of —
Gordon Mims Lackey 2667
Afternoon session:
Thomas Collins Brock 2683
A. C. Herrington 2691
Byron de la Beckwith 2698
Mordaunt Hamilton 2701
Donald Leo Mathieu 2705
III
IV CONTENTS
January 13, 1966: Testimony of — Page
Louis Anthony DiSalvo 2710
Thomas Byron Thrasher, Sr 2720
Burrel Lindsey White, Jr 2724
Afternoon session:
Joseph Walter Holder 2733
Rex Henry Pierce, Jr 2739
Thomas A. Gunter 2742
Harvey Herman Heredeen, . 2760
Elmore Douglas Greaves 2768
January 14, 1966: Testimony of —
James Nolan Fortenberry 2781
Harold Lloyd Delk 2784
Afternoon session:
Edward Willard Fuller 2791
James Kenneth Greer 2798
Willie Gerald Whitehead 2802
Charles Marcus Edwards 2804
James Ford Seale 2807
Clyde Wayne Seale 2812
Julius Hunter Harper 2815
Billy Douglas Buckles 2823
January 18, 1966: Testimony of —
Billy Wilson 2833
January 28, 1966: Testimony of —
George Leonard Williams 2867
Index in separate volume.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
TUESDAY, JANUARY 4, 1966
United States House of Kepresentatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington. D.C.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a.m. in the Caucus
Room, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin
E.Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members : Kepresentatives Edwin E. Willis, of Loui-
siana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of Geor-
gia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present : Representatives Willis, Pool, Welt-
ner, and Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
This morning we resume hearings on the Ku Klux Klan organiza-
tions of the United States. In that connection I refer to my opening
statement of October 19, 1965, which is of course already a part of
the record.
I assume that each witness to be called today, and thereafter, has
received and read a copy of that opening statement. I nevertheless
suggest that the one who will conduct the interrogation will ask each
witness if that is so. It is my information it is so.
So we will now resume the interrogation of witnesses, and Mr.
Appell will please call the first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. John Deason Swenson.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please have a seat.
2333
2334 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN DEASON SWENSON, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JAMES K. VENABLE
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, will you please state your full name for
the record.
Mr. Swenson. Do you want me to stand ?
Mr. Appell. No.
Mr. Swenson. My name is John D. Swenson.
Mr. Appell. Is the "D" for Deason ?
Mr. Swenson. That is right.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Swenson ?
Mr. Swenson. I was born on June 15, 1910, in Poplarville, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Would counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Venable. James R. Venable, attorney at law, Atlanta, Georgia.
The Chairman. Will you give your address for the record ?
Mr. Venable. Walter R. Brown Building, Atlanta 3, Georgia.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, will you please set forth your educa-
tional background ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I have a grade school education.
Mr. Appell. Will you set forth to the committee a brief chronology
of your employment background ?
Mr. Swenson. I am in business for myself.
Mr. Appell. Let's take from the period 1960 to the present time.
How have you been employed ?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds this
may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, are you now, or have you ever been, a
member of a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse, sir, to answer on the grounds
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, in 1960, Roy E. Davis, now of Dallas,
Texas, organized the old Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Did you become an officer in that organization ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds this answer
may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you mean under the provisions of the fifth
amendment of the Constitution ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir. May I respectfully say, also the fourth
amendment, sir.
The Chairman. Pardon ?
Mr. Appell. He would like to include the fourth amendment.
Mr. Swenson. I am sorry if I am not talking loud enough.
The Chairman. That is perfectly all right.
You are invoking constitutional privileges, and it should be spelled
out for the record.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, do you know Mr. Royal V. Young.
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir ; I have met Mr. Young.
Pardon me, sir. I would like to withdraw that statement, sir. I
respectfully refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may
tend to incriminate me.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2335
The Chairman. And again for the record, you base that refusal on
the basis of the fifth amendment ?
Mr. SwENSON. The fourth and fifth ; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness, before with-
drawing the answer that he gave, did acknowledge that he knew Royal
Y. Young, and I suggest serious consideration ought to be given by the
committee that he has waived his right to retract the answer and now
invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Pool. He was advised by his counsel to take the fifth amend-
ment, and I think we cannot argue with that. If counsel wants to
advise him that way, we have to respect his wishes.
The Chairman. I think certainly as a matter of law and in the pro-
cedures of the court, he has technically waived his rights to invoca-
tion, but for the time being we will pass it up.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, did you recruit Royal Y. Young into the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Sw^ENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
it may tend to incriminate me, invoking the fourth and fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, on July 28, 1965, the committee heard
in executive session Mr. Royal Y. Young. This testimony the com-
mittee voted this morning to release, and I should therefore like to
refer to that testimony in the interrogation of the witness.
The Chairman. That is proper. The committee did this morning
vote to release the executive testimony of Mr. Young.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young was asked :
Mr. Appell. Who recruited you into membership into the Klan?
Mr. Young. I believe it was Brother Swenson.
Mr. Appell. Would you identify Brother Swenson fully, by his full name?
Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know his full name. All I know — all I can do is give
you his initials.
Mr. Ajppell. By whatever identities you can give then.
Mr. Young. It is J. D. Swenson.
Are you the J. D. Swenson that Mr. Young identified as having
recruited him into the Klan ?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer on the ground it
might incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young testified furtlier with respect to J. D.
Swenson that, at tlie time he was recruited by J. D. Swenson, J. D.
Swenson held the position of Grand Dragon for the Original Knights
of Ku Klux Klan.
Is the testimony of Mr. Young truthful ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this question may tend to incriminate me on the fourth and fifth
amendment.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young was asked what positions he held within
tlie Origir.al Knights, and he said that he had held the position of
Acting Grand Dragon. He was then asked :
Mr. Appell. AVho appointed you?
Mr. Young. Swenson.
I ask yoii if tliat testimony is truthful ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this question may incriminate me.
2336 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN-IN THE U.S.
The Chaikman. And you are invoking that on grounds previously
stated?
Mr, SwENSox. Yes, the fourth and fifth amendment.
Mr. Appet,l. Mr. Young testified that subsequently he was promoted
to the position of Imperial Dragon and that this appointment was
made by the Keverend Roy E. Davis. Is that testimony truthful?
Mr. SwExsoN. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this answer may incriminate me. I am invoking the fourth and fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, you testified under oath that you
were born in 1910. Wliere were you born ?
Mr. Swenson. I believe I stated that — Poplarville, Mississippi.
The Chairman. Poplarville, Mississippi ?
Mr. SwENSON. Yes.
The Chairman. Where do you reside now ?
Mr. SwENSON. I reside in Bossier City, Louisiana.
The Chairman. That is across the Red River from Shreveport?
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, Mr. Young was asked this question by
me after some talk about you :
Mr. Appell. All right. Now in addition to Grand Dragon, did Swenson hold
another oflSce as National Kleagle?
Mr. Young. Yes ; that is right.
Did you hold the position of National Kleagle ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer this question on
the grounds that it may incriminate me, invoking the fourth and
fifth amendent.
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, it is the information of this com-
mittee that you can be called what would be known as the father of
the modern-day Klan in Louisiana; is that not true?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer your question
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. In both instances, the
fourth and fifth amendent.
Mr. Appell. As an officer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Louisiana, I ask you whether this other sworn testimony of
Mr. Young is factual ; that at the time Mr. Young was appointed the
Imperial Dragon, that Mr. Murry H. Martin was appointed the Grand
Giant, or the number two man under the Grand Dragon ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, did you ask that as a question ?
Mr. Appell. Yes. I ask you if his testimony to that eifect was
truthful?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this testimony may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young testified, and I ask you if his testimony
was truthful, that at the time Murry H. Martin was appointed as
Grand Giant, that Mr. Grady Wilder was appointed the Assistant
Grand Giant . I ask you if that is true ?
Mr. Swenson. I didn't hear the question. I thought you were read-
ing a statement there.
Mr. Appell. I ask you if Mr. Young's testimony is truthful to the
effect that at the time Murry H. Martin was appointed Grand Giant,
that Grady Wilder was appointed the Assistant Grand Giant ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2337
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this answer may tend to incriminate me, invoking the fourth and fifth
amendment.
Mr. Appell. I ask you if Mr. Young's testimony is truthful to the
effect that Mr. Kobert Fuller of Monroe, Louisiana, was appointed to
the position of chief of the Klan Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. SwENSON. I didn't hear the question.
Mr. Appell. If Mr. Robert Fuller was appointed to the position of
chief of the Klan Bureau of Investigation ?
The Chairman. Known as the klabee?
Mr. Appell. No, sir.
The Chairman. What is the technical name ?
Mr. Appell. KBI, Klan Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. Sw'ENSON. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds this
answer may tend to incriminate me, invoking the fourth and fifth.
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, Mr. Young appeared, as you now
know, before this subcommittee in executive session under oath, under
the pains and penalty of perjury, and he chose to answer these ques-
tions posed to you, and apparently saw no involvement under the con-
stitutional amendments you refer to.
Can you explain why he felt he could answer these questions freely,
while you rely on these amendments?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer your question on
the grounds it may incriminate me, invoking the first, fourth, and
fifth amendments.
The Chairman. You now invoke the first also ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson
The Chairman. Wliy ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir?
■ The Chairman. Why ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I believe it might tend to incriminate me. That
is the reason I don't answer, respectfully.
The Chairman. That is why I am curious to know why you are
invoking the first amendment. The amendment speaking of incrimi-
nation is five.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, I ask you if Mr. Young's testimony is
truthful to the effect that Mr. Charles Pearson was appointed as Mr.
Fuller's assistant in the Klan Bureau of Investigation — the assistant
chief?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
that this answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What are the duties of the KBI — the Klan Bureau
of Investigation ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this answer may tend to incriminate me, standing on the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest, if it is agreeable with
Mr. Venable's client, if it is agreeable to him, that the witness use the
response "Same answer,'' if it encompasses the amendments to which
he has previously referred.
The Chairman. He may do that.
2338 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
You may say you refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. AppELii. In the course of the organization of the Ori^nal
Knights, did you appoint as an assistant to yourself as organizer,
with the title of grand kleagle, as testified by Mr. Young under oath,
Houston P. Moms of Monroe, Louisiana ?
Mr. SwENSON. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that
I have heretofore refused to answer.
Mr. Appell. With respect to the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Louisiana, did you have within the organizational structure
the position of grand kludd, or chaplain ?
Mr. SwENSON. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds this
may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young testified under oath that the position of
grand kludd was held by his brother. Jack D. Young. Is that truth-
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
this answer may incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, as the National Kleagle of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, I will put it to you as a fact that in
1963 you moved across the river into Mississippi and there recruited
members for the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. I ask you
to affirm or deny the fact.
Mr, Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
that it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and I ask you to confirm or
deny the fact, that you organized within the State of Mississippi some
five Klaverns.
Mr, Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
it may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, we have been unanimously directed
by the full committee to conduct this investigation, and the House
of Kepresentatives, by an overwhelming vote, supplied the fimds to
conduct the investigation. It would be useful, in addition to the in-
formation we have gathered, and that is voluminous, if one witness
would stand up and spell out in his own words the objectives of
klanism. Can you do that ?
What is the organization all about ?
What are its functions ?
Wliat is its program ?
What does it stand for ?
Certainly, there are all kinds of literature issued along that line.
We have that literature. I want to give you that opportunity.
Will you spell out the objectives of your Klan organization and
what klanism in general stands for ?
Mr. Swenson. Have you finished ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, I hand you a copy of a series of oaths
administered to members of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, and I ask you if you subscribe to those oaths ?
Mr. Swenson. Do you want me to read this ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2339
Mr. Appell. You read it yourself, and I ask you if that is the oath
you subscribe to.
The, Chairman. You may read it. You sound as though you are
anxious to do it. It -would be perfectly satisfactory for you to read it
out loud and let us question you about what you read, if that is your
wish.
The question is, Do you subscribe to these oaths ?
Mr. SwENSON, Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
(Document marked "John Swenson Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.^)
Mr. Appell, Mr. Swenson, it is the result of the committee's in-
vestigation that Roy E. Davis, in reactivating a Klan group in 1960,
as a member of the 1915 Ku Klux Klan organization, adopted for
liis organization that which was used by the Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan under William Joseph Simmons.
Did the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan follow in toto the
naturalization proceedings of the Klan headed by Mr. Simmons?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Simmons appeared before the House Rules Com-
mittee on October 12 and 13, 1921, and after setting forth the oaths,
which are almost verbatim to the oaths that I have shown you, after
reading the last oath under "Klanishness," Mr. Simmons said that the
naturalization proceedings continued with this language :
Sirs, have you assumed without mental reservation your oath of allegiance
to the invisible empire?
According to Mr. Simmons, the candidate answers "Yes," and Mr.
Simmons said this statement followed, and I quote from the trans-
script of the testimony statement read to the candidate :
Mortal man cannot assume a more binding oath; character and courage
alone will enable you to keep it. Always remember that to keep this oath means
to you honor, happiness, and life ; but to violate it means disgrace, dishonor,
and death. May honor, happiness, and life be yours.
Was this language taken from the testimony of Mr. Simmons as part
of the official proceedings of the 1915 Klan a part of your organization ?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Pool. May I ask the witness a question?
Are you ansM-ering and taking the fifth amendment based on the
gromids that your oath as a Klansman takes higher precedent than
your obligation to appear before this committee and answer ques-
tions?
Is that the reason for it ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Pool. I just asked you the reason for it. You can't get in trou-
ble with that.
Mr. Sw^ENSON. Sir, I have heretofore stated this, that anything I
might be asked might tend to incriminate me.
^The^e oaths are similar in form to those used by the United Klans of America, Inc.
See Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4, committee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Move-
ment, pp. 343-346.
2340 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Pool. You are goino; to look pretty bad back home when you
wave the flag and say you will fight for America first. You have
not the guts to testify before the committee on the things we are ask-
ing. I know you have a right to take the fifth amendment, I know
that. Back home, you are not going to look very good. You keep
on talking like that and the Ku Klux Klan will be out of existence
sure enough, if you are not proud to testify for an organization that
vou have any connection Avith.
That is all.
The Chairman. Mr. Venable.
Mr. Venable. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr. Chalmers appeared as counsel for the wit-
nesses previously before this committee. I asked Mr. Chalmers
whether, in addition to the invocation of the privileges or whatever
constitutional amendments were relied on, the witnesses he repre-
sented were relying on their oath of allegiance to the Klan as a rea-
son for refusing to answer. He responded that they did not ; they were
relying on the constitutional privilege.
I wonder if you would mind giving your views as a lawyer on that.
Are you relying on the oaths taken by your client, Mr. Swenson, as
a member of the Klan, and I know you are familiar with them —
that series of oaths — as a basis for refusal to answer questions before
this committee ?
Mr. Venable. Your Honor, we are relying on the first amendment
on the grounds if a person should be compelled to answer, it might
indicate that he was a member and, further, it would violate his rights
to peacefully assemble, freedom to discuss their grievance under the
first amendment. And under the fourth amendment — he invokes it,
we invoke it — there are certain matters and things that might com-
pel him, if it pertains to documents and records and books, that that
would be a violation of his rights under the freedom to have and
retain personal effects, and if you were compelled to produce them
and if they would incriminate you, they would incriminate you.
The fifth amendment says he shaV not be a witness against himself.
Last but not least, the 14th amendment, as T understand the Su])reme
Court has so held and ruled, if any of your riglits are being violated,
they would be in violation of the 14th amendment. You would not
have equal protection of law under the first, fourth, and fifth. The
sixth amendment too.
The Chairman. My question was whether the basis of your advice to
your client for refusing to answer is these constitutional amendments?
Mr. Venable. Yes.
The Chairman. And you are not relying on liis oath as a Klansman
as a reason for refusing to answer ?
Mr. Venable. That's right, your Honor.
Tlie Chairman. That is my question.
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; tliat's right.
The Chairman. Mean iug what — that you are or are not ?
Mr. Venable. If he identified that oath and admitted that he took
that oath, an oath similar to that oath, then he would admit that he was
a Klansman, and if he is part of a machinery or grouji then some of
them would be involved.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2341
The Chairman. I understand. I think I understand you better
than you understand me.
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The oath taken by a member of the Klan is, in short,
a pledge of secrecy, and conceivably, outside of what the decisions may
say
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. — conceivably a person, a member of the Klan who
has taken that oath, could appear before the committee and say, "I
have taken an oath of allegiance and loyalty to my organization. I
believe in that oath so firmly that I am not going to say anything about
the activities of my organization. I am not relying on the constitu-
tional amendments. I am relying on my fealty of allegiance and dedi-
cation to the oath of a Klansman as the reason for refusing."
You are not relying on that oath as a matter of law, as I understand
it.
Mr. Venable. That is right .
The Chairman. You are relying on the constitutional amendments?
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is what I wanted. That was the position-
Mr. Venable. We are not trying to hide the oath. We are just
invoking those constitutional amendments.
The Chairman. If you relied on the oath, we would have some
questions. You are not relying on it as a basis for refusing?
Mr. Venable. That is right.
Mr. Pool, Mr. Venable, since you have explained all that very
nicely, will you go further and say Congress has no right to investigate
anything ?
Mr. Venable. No, I don't state that. I think Congress should have
the right.
Mr. Pool. "Wliere do they have a right to investigate? Where do
you limit it ?
Mr. Venable. They have a field to investigate many things, if your
Honor please. Where it involves a person's rights and privileges
as guaranteed under the Bill of Rights, then this Congress, this com-
mittee, or any other person has no right to compel a person, to make
a person produce evidence which might tend to incriminate him in a
conspiracy or intend to incriminate him in a law violation.
Mr. Pool. Is the Ku Klux Klan a conspiracy ?
Mr. Venable. No, it is not a conspiracy. There are 43 separate
Klans.
Mr. Pool. You don't know anything about the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Venable. I know a little bit about it, yes, sir, having been in it
quite a while. I am proud of it.
Mr. Pool. You may have good ground for what you are saying.
You know more about it than I do. Maybe you are right, that you
should plead the fifth amendment. I don't know.
Mr. Venable. I am not pleading the fifth amendment myself, as
you know. I never have "pled" it and I never will.
Mr. Pool. The Klan pleads it.
Mr. Venable. I never invoked the fifth amendment as far as being a
lawyer.
2342 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE "U.S.
Mr. Pool. I am getting tired of sitting here and all these niceties
going on. When we get down to basic facts, I will ask questions along
that line. We will just get right down to it.
Mr. Venable. I thank you. 1 have a right to advise my client.
Mr. Pool. You certainly do.
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. And I have a right to talk to you, so we will talk a little
bit more if you want to.
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, you are appearing before the committee
today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 27,
1965, and extended by formal telegi\ams from the committee ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir ; and I turn these in.
Mr. Appell. You keep them. You are appearing in accordance
Avith that subpena ? You are appearing here this morning because of
the subpena served upon you ?
The Chairman. That is a proper question.
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. It doesn't involve constitutional questions.
Mr. Swenson. I am sorry, sir, but I am not an attorne3^
The Chairman. I understand.
Mr. Swenson. I am appearing here according to this subpena.
Mr. Appell. An attachment to that subpena, which was made part
of the subpena, calls in three paragraphs for you to produce certain
books and records. Paragraph 1 calls for you to produce :
AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana, in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as present or past oflScer and/or member
of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana.
I now demand tliat you produce those documents called for.
Mr. Swenson. I am respectfully refusing to produce these records,
sir, that they may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction of the production
of documents called for in paragrapli 1.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I am adding to this that this would be in viola-
tion of my fourth and fifth amendments of the Constitution.
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, I wanted to ask this question for the
record, and I assume counsel will understand. The question is this :
You understand, of course, that the part of the subpena duces tecum
just read calls for you to produce those documents in the representa-
tive capacity stated in the subpena; do you not? You understand
that? In other words, and I wish counsel' would hear this, this part
of the subpena in paragraph 1 — and I assume it is true in the succeed-
ing two next paragraphs, so I will not have to i-epeat everything— calls
on you as an officer, or in a capacity stated here, to produce the docu-
ments in your possession as stated in that capacity. You understand
that; do you?
Mr. Swenson. Yes.
The Chairman. Because it makes a difference, to be fair with you,
between calling on you to produce, for example, your own income tax
return or your own papers, and papers tliat we say you have or had
in a representative capacity. There is a distinct ion between the two.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2343
I will repeat this — you understand that under this subpena you are
being asked and directed to produce documents in the capacity stated
and not as J. B. Swenson, the man. You understand that; do you?
Counsel, do you understand that?
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That being the case, I now order and direct you to
produce those documents in the capacity stated in the subpena, and I
will try to explain to you as a layman this — I am repeating that this
is an order directed to you to submit documents, papere, and records
which we say you have, or had, in that representative capacity, and
since we do not accept your right to refuse to do so in the capacity
stated, that is why I am ordering you to produce them. I am referring
now to documents described in paragraph 1 of the attacliment to this
subpena.
Mr. SwENSON. May I consult counsel, please ?
The Chairman. Surely.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, as far as records of the Klan organization, I do
not have any of those records. I guess I don't know what you are talk-
ing about except it is something that you showed me here, but I don't
have any records whatsoever of the Klan in my possession now at all.
I did bring my personal income tax return wiiich you asked for.
The Chairman. We haven't reached that. I didn't realize it had
been asked for, frankly. I just wanted to explain the call of this par-
ticular portion of the subpena.
Mr, Swenson. I have none, sir.
The Chairman. You are now saying that you cannot pj-oduce those
documents called for in the capacity stated because you do not have
them ?
Mr. Swenson. No, sir.
The Chairman. That is the reason you do not produce them?
Mr. Swenson. That is right.
The Chairman. And you know you are under oath ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman — did you ever have possession of these
documents ?
Mr. Swenson. Mr. Pool, w'hat was the question, sir?
Mr. Pool. Did you ever have possession of these documents that he
just asked for under the subpena ?
Mr. Swenson. I have had no documents since I have been sub-
penaed, sir. I have had no documents like this.
Mr. Pool. Did you ever have possession of these documents ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, you are asking me a direct question? Is that
right, sir ?
Mr. Pool. Sure I am asking the question.
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer this question, sir, on
the grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. Pool. You just got through testifying the you didn't have pos-
session of them. The proper question then would be whether you ever
had possession of these documents. It is a very proper question, and
you should answer it.
Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct him to answer.
The Chairman. We are now cross-examining you on your previous
answer. You said, in answer to my question, that you were not produc-
ing those documents for the reason that you didn't have them.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 2
2344 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Now, Mr. Pool asked whether you ever had them. That is a proper
question.
Furthermore, if you persist in refusing to answer that one, I have
two or three of my own I want to ask. So the pending question is
this: Did you ever have possession of those documents? I order and
direct you to answer that question.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I will give him warning on the probabil-
ity of contempt if he doesn't answer this question.
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, may I get a clarification on that? What records
are you speaking of now on this ?
The Chairman. Mr. Appell will explain it.
Mr. SwENSON. That you asked me if I ever had.
Mr. Appell. [Reading:]
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana, in your possession, custody or control, or main-
tained by you or available to you as present or past oflBcer and/or member of
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana.
The Chairman. Let me supplement that so it will be completely
clear, Mr. Swenson. The subpena asks you to produce any kind of
books, any kind of records, any kind of documents, any kind of corre-
spondence, any kind of memoranda relating to the organization of,
and the conduct of, the business and affairs of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan, whether those documents were — and as broadened
by Mr. Pool — are or ever were, in your possession or under your con-
trol or maintained by you or available to you either as present or as a
past officer and/or as a member of the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Louisiana.
That is a broad question. It is a broad order. This subpena fol-
lows tJie pattern of subpenas of this kind, and that is what Mr. Pool's
question is. I have ordered you to answer it. Having said that you
do not now have them, he is asking you — have you ever had any kind
of book, record, document, or correspondence or memoranda in the
capacity indicated, whether as a present officer or a past officer or a
present member or a past member ?
In answer to me, you said you couldn't produce them because you
didn't have them.
Well, now, we have the right to ask you — sure you don't have them
now, and that is an acceptable answer. I didn't direct you to answer
that question. You said you didn't have them, and you are under
oath. But now the question is this — you say you don't now have
them : What did you do with them ? Did you Just leave them home or
give them to a friend so you would not be called upon to produce
them ? That is the question we are now asking you.
If you don't have them now the question is, Have you ever had them ?
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask counsel liow long he wants
to take. How about the recess ?
The Chairman. What is your answer ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, T would like to speak to my counsel just a little
longer if you don't mind, ])lease.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, at 11 :05 a.m., the subconnnittee recessed and recon-
vened at 11:11 a.m. Subcommittee members present at time of recess :
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2345
Representatives AVillis, Pool, Weltner, and Buchanan and when hear-
ings resumed: Representatives Willis, Pool, and Weltner.)
The CiiAiRMAx. The committee will come to order.
Mr. Swenson, you havintj consulted with counsel, and I think an-
other one came to your table during this recess, I ask for an answer
to the pending question.
Mr. Vexable. HaA^e the question repeated first so you will under-
stand.
Mr. Swenson. Will you repeat that question again, sir? I think
I understand it, but I want to be sure, sir.
The Chairman. In answer to my question you said you could not
produce books, records, documents, correspondence, and so on, be-
cause you don't have tliem. I accepted that, because you are under
oath. I accepted it temporarily, anyway, because that is your posi-
tion and you are under oath.
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Pool asked you, and that is the pending ques-
tion— well, you say you don't have them : Have you ever had them
either in your possession or custody or control, and whether you main-
tained those records or whether they are or were available to you?
That is the question.
Having said you don't liave them, did you ever have possession,
custody, or control of these records? Did you ever maintain them?
Were they ever available to you ?
(At this point Mr. Buchanan entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Pool. That is the pending question. I will direct you to
answer.
The Chairman. Yes, and I am directing him to answer.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, the records that you are referring to, I don't
know how many or what kind that you have in mind, and so on, but
any books, paraphernalia, correspondence, or anything that I had
in my possession this past March, a year ago, this all was burned,
destroyed completely.
The Chairman. They were burned and destroyed ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Who burned them ?
Mr. Swenson. I burned them.
The Chairman. All the records ?
Mr, Swenson. All records that I had in my possession.
The Chairman. All books?
Mr. Swenson. All books. In other words, everything that I had
in my possession ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. Why did you do that?
Mr. Swenson. I did that so it wouldn't get into the hands of the
enemy.
The Chairman. Who is the enemy ?
Mr. Swenson. I am speaking of the Communists and the elements
of communism.
The Chairman. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Savenson. I just say"l didn't want it to get into the hands of
Communists.
The Chairman. What would make you believe that they would?
Are you friendly with the Communists?
2346 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. SwENSON. No, sir, definitely not.
The Chairman. I didn't say you were. I am not being facetious.
Mr. SwENsoN. May I say something that does not have anything
to do with this, sir ?
The Chairman. You are speaking freely. That is what I want
you to do, and we will have a nice time questioning you. I am not
saying that as a basis for your not talking. On the contrary, I am
delighted.
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respect this committee, very, very much. I
am not against the committee. I respect it.
The Chair3ian. All right.
Mr. SwENSON. I am trying to answer your questions, sir, without
incriminating myself.
The Chairman. When was it that you destroyed them ? March of
last year, you say ?
Mr. Savenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. March of 1965 or 1964? We are just entering
1966.
Mr. Swenson. March of 1964.
The Chairman. March of 1964.
Mr. Pool. That is 2 years ago.
Mr. Swenson. Two years ago approximately.
The Chairman. That is March of 1964 ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I understand you had reference to last year be-
cause we are in only the 3d or 4th of January. You were picturing
yourself as still being in the year 1965. You destroyed, you burned
them in March of 1964 ?
Mr. Swenson. Approximately ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. Did you consult with j'our fellow officers in doing
that, or did you take it upon yourself? Or, if that question em-
barrasses you, I will ask you this — did you consult anyone?
Mr. Savenson. Sir?
The Chairman. Did you take it on yourself?
Mr. Swenson. Did I do what now, sir?
The Chairman. Did you consult anyone?
Mr. Swenson. No, sir, I consulted no one.
The Chairman. You just took it upon yourself to bum those rec-
ords?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. iVnd you say under oath you did that because you
didn't want those records to fall into tlie hands of the "enemy."
That is your sworn testimony ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I didn't want them stolen, so that's the reason.
I had reason to believe that they might be stolen, so I burned them.
The Chairman. Was there anything in those records which, if they
fell into the "hands of the enemy," would be damaging to you as an
individual or to your organization ?
Mr. Swenson. You asked me, sir, I believe, why did I
Mr. Appell. What documents?
The Chairman. My question was what, if anything, was contained
in those records, whatever they may be, that you felt would be dam-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2347
aging to you or to your organization if they did fall in the hands of
"the enemy" ? This is anotlier way of saying — what was it that you
felt should be destroyed because if the enemy got hold of them and read
them that something bad would happen to you, your organization, or
you can say to your country? I will allow you to say anything that
you have in mind,
Mr. SwENsoN. Sir, I don't know^ of anything definite. It is just
that the materia] that we are speaking of the Communists would like
to get their hands on it. Of course, I imagine they have it now.
Actually, it just wasn't supposed to be where it could be stolen by
any enemy organization of our country.
The CiiAiRMAX. I have a vei-y few questions. I don't want to haggle
with you. You are under oath and time will tell what happens.
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman". Was there, in addition to your fear that they might
be stolen or used by "the enemy," a feeling on your part that they might
be subpenaed and that you didn't want them subpenaed in the future?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, no, sir. No, sir.
The Chairman. And that is your testimony under oath?
Mr. SwENSON. This was March of 1954, sir.
The Chairman. 1964.
Mr. Swenson. 1964 ; I am sorry.
Mr. Pool. May I ask some questions here? Where did you burn
these papers and records and things? Where were you when you
burned them ?
Mr. Savenson. You mean the city ?
Mr. Pool. Were you in a house, a barn, out in the country ? Where
were you ?
Mr. Swenson. No, sir ; it was in my back yard.
Mr. Pool. Your back yard ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. "Wlio was there with you ?
Mr. Swenson. No one.
Mr. Pool. Do you have a witness there to say you burned them ?
Mr. Swenson. No one.
Mr. Pool. In the daytime or night ?
Mr. S^venson. In the daytime.
Mr. Pool. Do you remember what day ?
Mr. Swenson. No, sir, I don't.
Mr. Pool. Wliat records did you burn ?
Mr. Sw^ENSON. Sir, I burned the records that we were speaking of
just now, that he asked me about.
Mr. Pool. Call them off. Did you burn the minutes of the meeting?
Did you burn the membership lists? Call off the things. You know
wliat they are.
If you were afraid the Communists would get hold of them you cer-
tainly knew what they were.
Mr. Sw^ENsoN. Sir, it w\as just literature or documents. It was no
membership list. I haven's had any membership list.
The Chairman. Did they include any financial records, records of
money you received, because it is my understanding that you will be
questioned about financial transactions. This is a proper question, as
I am sure your lawyer will agree.
2348 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
You said that the reason for burning them was that you didn't want
them to fall into the hands of the enemy, which you described as the
Communists.
Then I asked you, in addition to that reason were you fearful that
they might be subpenaed. You said "No."
Now I am asking you if any of the documents that you burned had
to do with financial records, that is, receipts, evidence of money
received as dues, for robes, or anything else, any financial records
involved that were burned ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, the question that you asked me, if I answer that
it may tend to incriminate me in you asking for certain things.
The Chairman. Well, are you invoking constitutional privilege
and the fifth amendment at this point?
Mr, SwENSON". Fourth and fifth ; yes.
The Chairman. The fourth and fifth.
Mr. SwENSON. Respectfully, Mr. Willis, I am trying my best to
The Chairman. I understand that. I am trying my best to be fair
and yet to develop evidence. If in answer to my question as to whether
there were any financial records involved you invoke the fourth and
fifth amendments, I at least accept your invocation of the fifth as far
as I am concerned, because you are under oath and you can invoke your
privileges.
Mr. Pool. How about the membership list, though? You don't
remember whether they were in there or not ; do you ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, that is something I have never had, this mem-
bership list.
Mr. Pool. You have never had custody, control, or possession of
the membership list of any Ku Klux Klan organization ? Is that what
you are saying ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, the only thing I am saying is numbers.
Mr. Pool. I didn't get you. You haven't answered my question.
Mr. SwENSON. Just a minute, Mr. Pool. I am sorry.
Mr. Pool. You have never had custody, possession, or control of the
membership list of any Ku Klux Klan organization, is that right, the
membership list?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, what do you mean by list, sir ?
The Chairman. He said, Mr. Pool, the only thing he saw was num-
bers. Maybe the list was numbers rather than names.
Mr. Pool. I understand. You are referring to numbers instead of
the names. Were you ever in control, possession, or custody o1 any
lists of members whether by numbers or by names?
Mr. SwENSON. Would you give me just a few minutes, sir?
Mr. Pool. Yes.
Mr. SwENSoN. Sir, this answer may tend to incriminate me. I
invoke the fifth amendment on this one, sir, respectfully, sir.
The Chairman. Let me say that technically, in the decisions of the
Supreme Court, you have opened yourself to examination on these
questions. I do not want to be suj^ertechnical, but I will have to direct
you to answer that question. I think you opened up the door when
you said the only thing you saw was numbers, and thereby that makes
this question proper, so I will direct you to answer that question —
whether or not you ever had a list of members, whether by names or by
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2349
numbers. To that you invoked the fifth amendment. I simply do
not accept that invocation at this time.
You can consult with counsel. If you want to reinvoke your
privileges under my order, I am not your lawyer, but you do what
your lawyer tells you.
Mr. SwENSON. The question was did I ever have numbers.
The Chairman. You said that yourself.
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You said you saw numbers.
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The only thing you saw was numbers, not names.
The pending question is : Did you have possession of a list of members,
either by names or numbers, and was that list or series of numbers on
pieces of paper included in the bonfire you had in your office?
Mr. Sw^ENSON. What numbers I had, sir, yes, was included in the
bonfire.
Mr. Pool. Yov, testified a little earlier that it wasn't in there.
Mr. SwENsoN. No, sir, if it is read back, I am sorry, sir, respectfully.
Sir, all the records that I had — I don't want to get confused and I
don't want to cause you any delay here.
Mr. Pool. All right, did you iDurn the membership list when you
burned
Mr. SwENSON. I burned everything I had in my possession, sir. As
far as membership list is concerned, all I know anything about is
numbers, and everything that was in my possession was burned.
The Chairman. Including the numbers ?
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Papers with Klans by numbers. You burned them ?
Mr. SwENsoN. Sir, it was numbers. That is all I can
Mr. Pool. He hasn't answered the question. He is evading the ques-
tion. That is why I am trying to pin him down.
Did you, or did you not, burn the membership list, either by numbers
or names, out there in the backyard the day you burned all the other
records you claimed here a while ago ?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, the numbers that you are speaking of were
burned ; yes, sir. Everything that I had in my possession was burned.
Mr. Pool. What Klavern or what was the list of ? What Klavern ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, respectfully, I believe we were speaking of docu-
ments of the organization.
Mr. Pool. Of the total organization.
Mr. SwENSON. You asked me what became of them.
Mr. Pool. What did the numbers pertain to? What membership
did they pertain to? What organization are we talking about?
The Chairman. The document calls for matters referring to the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana. That, I take it,
is what you are referring to.
Mr. Swenson. Let me talk to my counsel.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully say that I have answered your
question on what happened to the records which you asked me to
produce here. They were destroyed. The question which is being
2350 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
asked me now will tend to incriminate me under the fifth amendment —
fourth amendment.
Mr. Pool. After this numbers list was destroyed or misplaced or
whatever happened to it, how did the organization get along without
a numbers list ?
Mr. Savenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated.
Mr. Pool. Are we talking about tlie numbers list or membership of
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? Is that the list you are
claiming was burned in that fire ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
answer because I think he opened it up for cross-examination and he
should be directed to answer the question.
The Chairman. I have already ruled that these questions are per-
tinent under the decisions and might lead to whatever legal remedy
is available to us under the law. I have directed him to answer the
question already, and he has reinvoked his amendment on which he
relies, despite my admonition. That is where we stand. He stands
on his position, and I stand on mine. In other words, I have already
directed him to answer the question.
Mr. Weltxer. With regard to the documents previously discussed
as required by the subpena and with regard to the witness' explanation
that the records were destroyed pursuant to his fear that they would
fall into the hands of the enemy, I would ask tlie Chair's permission
to read briefly from transcript of the executive session held on July
28, 1965, being a transcript of the testimony of Royal V. Young, Route
1, McDade, Louisiana. With the Chair's permission and with the at-
tention of the witness, I would request the witness pay close attention
to Mr. Young's sworn testimony with regard to the ''hands of the
enemy."
Mr. Young testified concerning a division in the Original Knights,
stating that he was assigned to various offices under JNIr. J. D. Swen-
son, the witness today. Then he was asked about the nature of the
faction. Mr. Young stated, now quoting :
There is no explaining to it. Some people wanted to take over the manu-
facturing of the robes, and one man had it, and that was it. That is the only
thing I can tell you. Power purge.
Mr. Appell. Xow, who was the man that had the jurisdiction of the manu-
facturing of the robes?
Mr. Young. Everyone in the United States knows that, and also your investiga-
tors. Mr. Swenson.
That is on page 257 of the transcript. On page 293 the witness
Young further states :
Let me straighten this out. The relationship to the money was not to the
money of the Klan. It was to the money of the robe money. That was most
of the argument.
Further on page 262, Mr. Young in identifying this faction stated
under oath as follows :
Mr. Appell. Who were the leaders in this faction against you?
Mr. Young. Sir, this was the Murry Martin and Mr. Wildei-.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2351
Mr. Chairman, the executive testimony of Mr. Young, previously
released, shows there was a struggle over the robe money; that Mr.
Swenson had the concession and it was given to him by Mr. Davis,
of the State of Texas; and that it was in the period March 1964 that
Swenson and Young lost out on the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan.
M}^ question to Mr. Swenson is this — he said he burned the records
to keep them from falling into the hands of the enemy : Mr. Swenson,
you were afraid, were you not, that these records would fall into the
hands of the enemy, Murry H. Martin and Billy Skipper, who led
this revolt against your leadership ; is that not true?
Mr. SwKxsoN. Sir, I would like to say I have already answered who
1 thought the enemy might be. We were then speaking of the records.
As I say, I am not an attorney. I will have to consult with my at-
t orney. The books and records that you asked, that were subpenaed,
that you asked to bring here, are no longer to be obtained. They are
not here.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, he has burned the records. Let me
restate the question to be sure the witness has it in mind.
You stated, Mr. Swenson, you burned the records in March of 1964
for fear that they would fall into the hands of the enemy. You fur-
tlier stated that you meant by the enemy, the Communists. You
stated also that they are probably in the hands of the Communists
now, anyway.
I have directed your attention to the sworn testimony of Koyal V.
Young concerning this controversy in March of 1964. I am asking
you whetlier or not the truth of the matter is that the enemy into
whose hands you feared these records might fall were Murry Martin,
Grady Wilder, and Billy Skipper, who challenged you and Mr. Young
for the leadership of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
the State of Louisiana. Isn't that the fact, Mr. Swenson?
Mr. SwENsox. Sir, I didn't fear that they would fall into Mr.
Martin's hands, that you are speaking of, or anyone else except the
Communists, that I w^as speaking of. I believe that is about the only
way that I know how to answer you on that, sir, respectfully,
Mr. Weltner. Did you consider Messrs. Martin, Wilder, and Skip-
per as your enemies ?
Mr. SwKxsoN. Sir, on your question I refuse to answer on the
grounds hei'etofore stated.
The CHAiRjvrAN. You mean by that, the 1st, the 4th, the 5tli, and the
14th amendments, and particularly the 5th amendment?
Mr. SwExsox. Yes, sir, respectfully.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to an-
swer the question.
The Chatrimax. I will direct you to answer that question because
this examination is quite proper and perfectly obvious. Mr. Swenson,
the reason is this: It is just as simple as daylight. A witness cannot
very well appear before a committee and extol his virtues in a certain
area and tlien, having done that, start invoking the fourth and fifth
amendments under cross-examination. That is not permissible. The
question Mi-. Weltner is asking is perfectly proper, and I think quite
obvious. I do direct you to answer that question.
2352 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. SwEXSOX. Sir, you are still talking about the records ?
The CwAiRMAx. That is right. That is, we are still talking about
Mr. Weltner's question, and it is that the reason for burning the rec-
oi'ds was not so much fear of the enemy, meaning the Connnunists,
but you were afraid that these records might fall into the hands of
the people that you were having a financial struggle and intraorga-
nizational fuss going on with. That is what he is asking.
Mr. SwExsoN. Sir, I didn't know anything about this fuss, except
what you have read there which Mr. Young has said.
The Chairmax. Let me say that Mr. Young when he appeared, like
you, was under oath. He was under the pains and penalties of
perjury. Xow you are opening up the question some more. We want
to give you the opportunity to talk about the lack of any intraorganiza-
tional struggle, including financial transactions concerning robes at
that time. If that is your testimony under oath, Mr. Swenson, that
is the end of it with me.
Mr. Sw^ENSox. Sir, I have forgotten the first question.
The Chairmax\ Just once more and then it will be over. Will you
repeat the question ?
Mr. Weltxer. The question is as follows: You stated in response
to the subpena that you did not have them since March 1964, that
you destroyed them in your backyard, and the reason you did so was
to prevent their falling into the hands of the enemy, and you identified
the enemy as the Communists. I have read to you the excerpt from
the transcript of July 28, 1965, concerning a struggle between you and
Mr. Young and Grady Wilder and Billy Skipper concerning the robe
money and the organization. I am asking you if it is not true that
the enemy into whose hands you feared these records might fall were
not the Communists, but Grady Wilder, Billy Skipper, and Murry
Martin.
Mr. SwExsox. No, sir, the Communists were the ones I was afraid
they would fall into the hands of.
Mr. Weltxer. All right, that is an answer to the question.
Were there among the records that you destroyed any records per-
taining to the manufacture, sale, or distribution of robes among mem-
bers of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Swexsox'. Sir, on this question I refuse to answer on the
grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. AVeltxer. Do you have knowledge of the existence or location
of any other records pertaining to the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan or any other Ku Klux Klan organization, Mr. Swenson?
Mr. SwEXsox. Sir, will you give me that question once more?
Mr. Weltx-^er. Do you have knowledge of the existence or location
of any^other records pertaining to the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan or any other Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. SwExsox. Sir, I refuse to answer on the gi'ounds heretofore
stated, on the fourth and fifth amendments.
Mr. Weltxer. Mr. Swenson, in Mr. Young's testimony of July 28,
1965, concerning the internal struggle within the Original Knights
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN INT THE U.S. 2353
organizaion, he stated in response to a question — the question is as
follows :
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Young, what did the dissenting group feel was the proper
program? What kind of activities did they want you to lead them into?
Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know. I will decide, and show you one incident that
might suffice. They wanted to burn crosses at the polls at the election in 1963,
and I put out specific orders that was to be ruled out because I did not believe
in intimidation of the voters. * * *
Mr. Weltner. Did you consider the act of burning the cross in and of itself
to be an intimidation?
Mr. Young. I did. I figures that there was some i)eople might see those
crosses and fail to go to vote.
My question is, Were you aware of the controversy identified by
Royal V. Young concerning burning of crosses at the polls in 1963?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated — the first, fourth, and fifth amendments.
Mr. Weltner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions ?
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, with respect to your reason for destroy-
ing the records that you have testified to in response to questions asked
by members of the committee, I put it to you as a fact that, imme-
diately prior to the destruction of the records, by action of the mem-
bership you were voted out of any office that you held, together with
Mr. Royal V. Young.
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that the reason the member-
ship took this action, or the leaders took this action, was because of
charges leveled against you of enriching yourself handsomely over the
sale of robes.
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. I ask you, if these records which you destroyed had
fallen into the hands of the faction that was opposing you, it would
have documented the charges they were making against you?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, part 2 of the subpena calls for you to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past member and/or officer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and
require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the
same being in your posession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those documents.
The Chairman. I think we could shorten the examination on item
2 and probably item 3 of the subpena, certainly item 2, if I made this
statement, and then if you say that the same situation with reference
to these documents obtains as that concerning the documents required
in paragraph 1. In other words, you took the position with reference
to paragraph 1 that the documents therein listed were not in your
possession, and then we examined you as to whether they had been in
your possession. Then you said you had destroyed them by fire. Then
we examined you on this. Is it the same situation that your answers
2354 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAISP IN THE U.S.
with reference to paragraph 2 would be the same as with reference
to paragraph 1 ?
If you want to go through it in that way, it is all right with me. So
I ask you specifically : Do you now have possession of these documents ?
Do you now have possession of the documents called for in para-
graph 2 ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, it is the same thing in paragraph 1.
The Chairman. Your answer is that you do not have them ?
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is it your answer that they were consumed by fire
under the same circumstances with reference to paragraph 1 ?
Mr. SwENSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Part 3, Mr. Swenson
The Chairman. Counsel, is it agreed that the pertinent questions
and answers with reference to paragraph 1 would be the same with
reference to paragraph 2 ?
Mr. Venable. Yes.
The Chairman. In other words. No. 1, your answer is that you do
not have those documents ; is that correct ?
Mr. Swenson. No, sir.
The Chairman. No. 2 is that you destroyed them in a bonfire
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. — under the same circumstances with reference to
paragraph 1. If we asked you the same questions, your answers would
be the same; is that correct? I think that is what counsel indicated.
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. That is right.
The Chairman. That is agreed to, Counsel ?
Mr. Venable. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Could I ask him if he destroyed by fire the records
that the ''Constitution and Laws'' of said organization authorize and
require be maintained by him? Were these also destroyed by fire?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
The Chairman. Is that correct ?
Mr. Swenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool, In other words, you burned the constitution and bylaws
along with all the other records ; is that correct ?
The Chairman. No. I think specifically he burned the records re-
quired by the constitution and bylaws to be kept.
Mr. Pool. Which included the constitution and bylaws.
Let me ask it of you in another way. In other words, you burned
the very documents that the constitution and bylaws required that
you keep ; is that correct ?
Mr. SwExsoN. Sir, anything that I had in my possession, as I stated
in paragraph 1 there, was destroyed.
Mr. Pool. Including these documents that the constitution and by-
laws required that you keep.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, respectfully, all the paraphernalia that you
asked for in paragraph 1 and paragraph 2 here were destroyed.
Mr. Pool. Can you answer my question and say "Yes"? Is that
correct, that you burned the documents that the constitution and by-
laws required that you keep ?
The Chairman. Or those are among the documents that you de-
stroyed, whatever you had.
Mr. Swenson. What you have stated here, sir
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2355
The Chairman. What you are answering is yes in a roundabout
way.
Mr, SwENSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. In other words, your constitution and byhiws did not
mean a whole lot to you ; did it ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, if I answer this question, it will tend to incrimi-
nate me in the language it was asked. I respectfully answer you that
I have none of these records in my possession.
Mr. Pool. I understand that.
The Chairman. But you are refusing to answer the last question
on the grounds of the privileges afforded to you under the constitu-
tional amendments which you have previously invoked. That is what
you are doing.
Mr. SwENSON. Yes.
Mr. Pool. That is fine and dandy. I think it is a terrible situation
when you just ignored the constitution and laws of the organization
like that and burned the records which you were supposed to keep
under the constitution and bylaws. That is all I am trying to point
out.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, paragraph 3 called for you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through
1964, filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department,
Internal Revenue Service.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Swenson. May I consult my attorney ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I am respectfully refusing to produce my per-
sonal income tax records since they may tend to incriminate me, on
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. You said you had them with you a while ago, but
I am not going to insist that you produce the income tax returns if
you invoke the fifth amendment in that respect. It might ease a lot
of pain later on, because we will question you about the finances.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny,
that the cover name used while you were the National Kleagle and
Grand Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was the
Louisiana Rifle Association.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated, on the first, fourth, and fifth amendments.
The Chairman. Let me ask the question in a different way. Is it
not a fact that you used the Louisiana Rifle Association as a coverup
and as a phony front organization for the Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I very respectfully refuse to answer on the
grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, you said that you have with you retained
copies from your Income Tax Returns, Form 1040. I put it to you as a
fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, from your retained copies
of your income tax returns that for the year 1962 you reported com-
missions from the Louisiana Rifle Association in the amount of $4,473 ;
in the year 1963, $10,690 ; and that in 1964 up until the time you were
removed, $1,781.66. I ask you to affirm or deny the fact that these
are the figures that you reported on your tax returns.
2356 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. SwENsoN. May I confer with my counsel ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated, based on the fifth amendment to the Constitution
of the United States.
(Income tax returns marked "Jolin Swenson Exhibit No. 2" and
retained in committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Then the charges made against you that you were en-
riching yourself were in fact trutlif ul. Is that so ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated.
(At this point Mr. Willis left the hearing room.)
Mr. Pool (presiding). Mr. Appell, this is in addition to other in-
come he reported ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Swenson, what part of the income from the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan, which maintained a national account and a
local account under the name of the Louisiana Rifle Association, did
Royal V. Young receive ?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should reflect that
in the interrogation of Mr. Royal V. Young on July 28, 1965, Mr.
Young also invoked constitutional privileges with respect to the
finances of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, of which
he was the Imperial Dragon, as to whether or not he shared in the
profits made by Mr. Swenson on the exclusive sale of robes which
Mr. Swenson had received as a commission from Roy E. Davis.
Mr. Pool, If there is no objection, the record will so show and it is
so ordered.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, so the record might establish that the
Louisiana Rifle Association was, in fact, the cover name of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, I put it to you as a fact,
and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that one of the Klaverns under
your jurisdiction was the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club in
Monroe, Louisiana.
(At this point Mr. Willis returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you two envelopes, one containing canceled
checks drawn against the account of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing
Club, payable to the Louisiana Rifle Association, endorsed by the
Louisiana Rifle Association, and another envelope containing checks
against the account of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club, payable
to cash, and endorsed by J. D. Swenson. I ask you, after you examine
tlie contents of these envelopes — will you also examine the other
envelope, Mr. Swenson, and the checks endorsed by J. D. Swenson?
Mr. Swenson, do the checks made payable to the Louisiana Riflle
xVssociation by the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club represent per
capita dues to the state and national office, together with a portion of
the membership fees due to the office on the initiation of a new
member ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2357
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Eegarding- the checks endorsed by J. D. Swenson, do
these checks represent payments for robes that you had the exclusive
concession for ?
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds heretofore
stated.
(Checks marked "John Swenson Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4," respec-
tively. One check from each exhibit follows; balance retained in com-
mittee files.)
John Swenson Exhibit No. 3
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2358
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
John Swenson Exhibit No. 4
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The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Willis, Pool, Weltner, and Buchanan.)
(Wliereupon, at 12 :15 p.m., Tuesday, January 4, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, JANUARY 4, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Buchanan.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE XJ.S. 2359
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Mr. Appell, I suppose you want to recall Mr. Swenson.
Mr. Appell. Will Mr. Swenson take the stand, please?
The Chairman. Mr. Swenson, you have already been sworn. Have
a seat, please.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN DEASON SWENSON— Resumed
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, as the National Kleagle, or national or-
ganizer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, I put it to you
as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you organized
members into the Klan in the State of Mississippi.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I refuse to answer — respectfully refuse to an-
swer on the grounds heretofore stated, based on the fourth and fifth
amendment.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that in Mississippi you created a realm of the Original
Knights and that you recommended to Royal V. Young for appoint-
ment to the position of Grand Dragon for the State of Mississippi
Douglas A. Byrd.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that prior to your removal from office in the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan in December of 1963 you banished from the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Douglas A. Byrd and Ed-
ward L. McDaniel.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the Klansmen that you recruited in Mississippi broke
with your organizations and that they became the cadre of an organ-
ization now operating in Mississippi known as the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know that E. L. McDaniel, whom you banished
from your organization in December 1963, is now the Grand Dragon
for Mississippi of the United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, Inc. ?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you possess any knowledge of violence, bombings,
or cross-burnings by members of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan during the period of time that you were the Grand Dragon?
Mr. Swenson. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. In February of 1962 there was a bombing at the home
of the Negro leader in Shreveport, Louisiana, C. O. Simpkins. Was
that act carried out by members of the Klan, to your knowledge?
Mr. Swenson. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3-
2360 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. In April 1962 there was a bombing at the Negro
Masonic Lodge in Shreveport, Louisiana. Do yon possess any knowl-
edge that this bombing was carried out by members of your Klan
organization ?
Mr. SwENSOx. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. In May of 1962 there was a bombing at the Simpkins'
liome in Shreveport, Ix)uisiana. I ask you if you possess any knowl-
edge tliat members of your Klan organizations engaged in that act?
Mr. SwENSox. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. In September 1962 there was an additional bombing
in Shreveport, Louisiana, the home of a wliite integrationist. Do
you possess any knowledge that members of your Klan were involved
in that action?
Mr. SwEXSox. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. In May of 1963 there was A'iolence on the campus of
the Louisiana State University at Baton Rouge. "Were members of
your Klan involved in that violence ?
Mr. SwExsox. Sir, I refuse to answer, respectfully refuse to an-
swer on the grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Swenson, Mr. Young was asked in his testimony on
July 28, 1965, page 294, questions concerning the takeover of the
Original Knights, the leadership of Mr. Young and yourself. The
questioning went like this — related to the robe concession. Mr. Young
says that he was told not to dig into the fact that you had the robe
concession, and the questioning went on by Mr. Hitz :
And was that the sole accusation of mishandling of funds that was again
made against you, Mr. Young?
Mr. Young. That was the question brought up to me. That I should do some-
thing about it.
Mr. Hitz. AVell, was it not quite easy to represent to anyone who accused
you of that, that it was the act of the Imperial Wizard and that your direction
from the Imperial Wizard, who gave you your job as Imperial Dragon, was to
keep out of it?
^Ir. YoiXG. At that time, it made no difference. There was a power purge
on ; and if I had to have told them that anybody had told me to stay out of it.
it would still have been the same thing over and over again. When men set
their mind to take over something, the fir-st thing they go through is your
pocketbook.
The Chaikmax. Is Avhat?
Mr, Appell. Your pocketbook.
Is this the desire, to get the other individuals to get their hands
on the profit that you and Mr. Young were making that caused the
split in the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in March of 1964?
Mr. Swexsox. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
The Chaiumax. Mr. Swenson, we have quoted quite extensively
from the testimony of Mr. Young under oath, and that testimony,
I think it is fair to say, was not exactly complimentary to you. His
testimony was under oath. It was part of our investigation.
Now, would you care to say what you think of Mr. Young?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2361
Mr. SwENSON. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer this question,
sir, on the grounds heretofore stated.
The Chairman. I just wanted to give you that opportunity which
would be a doublecheck on the credibility of liis sworn testimony.
Mr. ArPELL. ]Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.
I would like to ask as a part of the w^itness' testimony that the
subpena — that the records obtained of the account in the name of the
Louisiana Rifle Association from the Louisiana Bank and Trust
Company, Shreveport, Louisiana, and from the Bossier Bank and
Trust Company, Bossier City, Louisiana, be made a part of the record
of Mr. Swenson's testimony.
The Chairman. Those documents will be inserted in the record
at the point where ]\Ir. Swenson was questioned about them, so in
reading the whole transcript the evidence introduced will be at that
point.
(Bank records marked "John Swenson Exhibit No. 5" and retained
in cormnittee nles. )
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Swenson, you have made a good deal of the
fact that you have burned the records because you didn't want them
to fall into the hands of the enemy, which you said w^as commmiism,
the Communists. Certainly this committee is concerned about Com-
munist subversion, and continues to do a good deal of work in that
field. However, I think it is only fair to point out that whatever your
concern might have been, I personally very much doubt that the
(Communists would have any reason to do anything to the Ku Klux
Klan or any of its various organizations, because I can't think of an
outfit that has more consistently served the purposes of the Com-
munists than the various Klan organizations, however unwittingly.
It seems to me one could well contend that the Klan organizations
have consistently and well served the purposes of the Communists in
feeding propaganda for their propaganda mill, and there would be
little reason for them to try to do away wnth your organization, sir,
because it serves them too well.
Secondly, I would like to point out that not being a Communist does
not make a man or organization a sahit, that evil has many faces and
the evil of communism is just one of those faces.
I would like to point out for your edification that Judas Iscariot
was not a Communist, nor was John Dillinger, nor w'as Jesse James,
nor was Adolf Hitler, and the fact is under the guise of anticommu-
nism, when an organization under this guise commits acts of violence
or terrorism, it is without excuse for its extra-legal activities and being
non-Communist or against communism is hardly justification for any
act that is illegal or that is wa*ong.
Consequently, I would say in light of these things, of the service
that the Klan organizations have rendered to worlcl communism, in
light of the nature of the organization of which it is said you are the
father, I wonder if you aren't very much ashamed that it is the case
that you are at least known to be the father of the Ku Klux Klan in
Louisiana, Aren't you ashamed of that, sir ?
I will withdraw the question. No further questions.
The Chairman. Call your next w^itness.
2362 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr, SwENSON. Thank you, gentlemen.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Murry H. Martin.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the Avhole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Martin. I do,
TESTIMONY OF MURRY H. MARTIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JAMES R. VENABLE
Mr. Appfi.l. Mr. Martin, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Martin. Murry H. Martin.
Mr. Appei-i.. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Martin. June 1, 1924, in Tioga, Louisiana.
Mr. Appkli-. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Martin. In Winnsboro, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Venable. James R. Venable, Atlanta, Georgia.
Mr. Appfll. Mr. Martin, you are appearing here this morning in
accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 27th day of October
at 2303 Rowland Street, Winnsboro, Louisiana, and subsequently the
appearance was postponed by telegram ?
Mr. Martin . Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, the subpena served upon you demands for
you to bring with you and produce before the said committee docu-
ments set forth in an attachment, paragraph 1 of which reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the National Knights
of the Ku Kln\ Klan, Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliatetl or-
ganizations, namely, Christian Constitutional Crusaders, in your iwssession,
custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as Grand Dragon
and/or member of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, and/or
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I request you to produce the documents as called for in the subpena.
Mr. Martin. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to produce these
books, documents, and records on the constitutional grounds of the
fourth and fifth amendment, the Constitution "uaranteeinir the free-
dom of unreasonable search and seizure.
The Chahofan. And self-incrimination?
Mr. Martin. And self-incrimination.
Mr. Appell. I ask that the witness be asked to produce the records
asked for in tlie subpena.
The Chairman. Mr. Martin, were you in the hearing room when
Mr. Swenson testified?
Mr. Martin. I was ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. I ask that because I think, though I assume you
are not a lawyer, you understood that, from our point of view, any-
way, there is a distinction between ordering an individual to produce
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2363
pereonal records such as an income tax return, and a subpena served
upon liim in a corporate or representative capacity which he holds, not
for himself, but for an organization. You understood my explanation
of that?
Mr. IVIartin. I did ; yes.
The Chairman. Well, for that reason we do not accept as valid
reasons for refusing to produce these documents your reliance on these
constitutional amendments, and I therefore order and direct you to
produce them.
Let me add this : I do so because the court decisions require me to
do it. It is a cautionary note to a witness w^hen the chairman of this
committee, despite the invocation of constitutional grounds, never-
theless orders a witness to produce documents. It means we do not
accept your position as a matter of law and it means that it could re-
sult, for further consideration, in a contempt citation.
I am saying that because I want you to understand it and because
the court decisions require me to do that; therefore, for the reasons
that I have stated, I order and direct you to produce the documents.
Mr. Martin. Mr. Chairman, I still must decline to answer.
In support of this, I would like to say that the Supreme Court in
1961 knocked down a Louisiana statute that required all fraternal
or
The Chairman. Say that again.
Mr. Martin. I am not a law^yer.
The Chairman. I just want to caution you that perhaps, since you
are not a law^yer, I am not sure you are capable of carrying on this
discussion. Talk to your lawyer and go on if you want to.
Mr. Martin. I must still decline to answer on the grounds that it
may incriminate me under the first, fourth, and fifth amendment to
the Constitution.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, paragraph 2 of the attachment com-
manded you to bring with you, and to produce :
ah books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as member or oflScer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and/or Chris-
tian Constitutional Crusaders which the "Constitution and Laws" of said or-
ganization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce the documents requested in paragraph 2.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to produce these documents in
question on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Martin, for the reasons previously pointed out
and explained in detail, I order and direct you to produce the
documents.
Mr. Appell. You were directed, Mr. Martin.
Mr. Martin. I must decline.
The Chairman. On the ground previously stated ?
Mr. Martin. Right, on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Did you inform him he is subject to possible citation for
contempt ?
The Chairman. Yes. That is the reason for ordering him.
2364 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, paraofraph 3 of the subpena calls upon
you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department,
Internal Revenue Service.
I ask you to produce those tax returns.
Mr. Martin. I must decline to produce these records on the con-
stitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, I hand you a blank form of application
for citizenship in the Invisible Empire of the Original Ku Klux Klan.
I ask if you have executed an application identical to or similar to that.
Mr. Martix. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murrv Martin Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. I hand you a copy of a series of oaths and ask you if
you subscribe to those series of oaths in any organization that you
might liave belonged to ?
Mr. Martin, I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked '"John Swenson Exhibit Xo. 1.'*)
Mr. Appell. I hand you the reproduction of a document, the "Kon-
stitution of the Original Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Louisiana." I ask
you if this constitution was adopted by the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan organization which you at one time headed.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murry 5lartin Exhibit No. 2." See commit-
tee report. The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movemenf. pp. 297-319.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, were you acquainted with Mr. Royal V.
Young, the Imperial Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you hold an office under Mr. Young in that organ-
ization?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Young testified that after he was appointed to
the position of Imperial Dragon that Murry H. Martin was appointed
to the office of Grand Giant. Is that testimony truthful ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know that the cover name for the Original
Knights during that period of time was the Louisiana Rifle Associa-
tion?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2365
The Chairman. I prefer to put it this way : Is it not within your
knowledge that that Khm organization, as part of its efforts to remain
completely in the background and secret, used the cover name or front
name of tlie Louisiana Kitle Association '^
In other words, we have hoard, wc have read literature, literature of
all other organizations of the type you headed, about their use of front
organizations and all the rest of it. '
I am trying to say JNIr. Appell has represented to you as a cold fact
that you were a party to using a front organization. Is that true
or not ?
Mr. Martix. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you an envelope which contains five checks
totaling $531.26 made payable to "Murray" H. [Murry H. or M. H.]
Martin, drawn against the account of the Louisiana Rifle Association,
Louisiana Bank and Trust Company, Shreveport, Louisiana, and ask
3'OU whether you affirm or deny the fact that you are the payee desig-
nated on those checks.
Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds j^reviously stated.
( Checks marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 3." One of said checks
follows; balance retained in committee files.)
Murry Martin Exhibit No. 3
'-*T "HHKVKIN.tfT.fe*. April 29 IB 63 Q„gjj
'•mi i).. ^*: ' ■ "'f
April — ^ */^iaiMU!,M>r\.K AMOOMTMM.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny it as a fact, that after Mr. Young and Mr. Swenson
were removed from the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan that a
deal was worked out among those responsible for removing them from
office whereby you would take over the position of Grand Dragon of
the organization. I ask you to affirm it or deny it.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you took office without being elected and that you were
supposed to hold this office for some 6 months, at which time there
was to be an election and someone else other than yourself was sup-
2366 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
posed to succeed to the office of Grand Dragon. I ask yon to affirm
or deny it.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the person avIio under the agreement was supposed to
take over was Houston P. Morris, who was the grand kleagle of your
organization. I ask you to affirm or deny it.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that when you had made your position within the organiza-
tion solid enough so that at the election you won and Mr. Morris did
not win, that he broke with the organization and created a new Klan
group in Louisiana known as the Original Ku Klux Klan of America,
Inc.
Mr. Martin. I decline to answer on the constitutional grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that he took from your organization certain Klaverns within
it.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that he later took this group of people into the United Klans
of America, Realm of Louisiana.
The Chairman. Of which Mr. Shelton is head ?
Mr. Appell. Of which Mr. Shelton is the Imperial Wizard.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that when you took over leadership of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan that you adopted as a cover name for that organiza-
tion the Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. And this is being stated to you as a fact again, that
you use that fancy Christian name as a purely phony front organiza-
tion, just as false as a 2-foot yardstick. Is that true?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you a signature card filed in the account of the
name of the Cliristian Constitutional Crusaders opened in the Ouachita
National Bank in Monroe, Louisiana. In examining this card I ask
you — put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that
the card reflects that the president of the Christian Constitutional
Crusaders is M. H. Martin ; that the secretary is L. G. Wilder; and that
the treasurer is Henry I. Bayles.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2367
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional o;rounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 4" follows:)
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 4
r .....
LiI:^j^.^l^-C:fc^x1^stlan^i2ans tj.tirtl ', „_;
f' r; K 'J iD £?!">.
v(r;r-;.pr;sr;:riE>4^- •
'^^ sire-? ETA ftJr^ ■
vy<R?.A.«Ur-eri5
,'. ■ " .y
i!:fj^__iff:>^..^ fi.:..:,.:!
1
tS5 oTriv:n tics:
7?c.^^.''.iit-wai,»<'.i:V'.'.>. --'.^ k' . ..■■.^„-54».
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, during the appearance of Mr. Swenson we
discussed with him the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club, Avhich
made checks payable to the Louisiana Rifle Association.
According to the bank account of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing
Club maintained at the Central Savings Bank & Trust Co. of
Monroe, Louisiana, from January 21, 1964, to June 3, 1964, they issued
five checks which were endorsed by the Christian Constitutional Cru-
saders. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the
fact, that these checks covered dues, the realm's share of the new mem-
bers' klectokon or membership fees. I ask you to affirm or deny the
fact, sir.
Mr. Martin. Repeat the question, please. I don't quite understand
all you said there.
Mr. Appell. The bank records of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing
Club reflect that from January 21, 1964, to June 3, 1964, there were
five checks payable to cash and endorsed by the Christian Constitu-
tional Crusaders. I ask you if it is a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that these cliecks represented dues and klectokon or mem-
bership fees owed to the grand office on the part of this Klavern.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Checks marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 5" not reproducible;
retained in committee files. )
2368 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Ill May of 1963 this account in the Central Savings
Bank & Trust Co. was opened. According to the signature card of
this account, Houston P. Morris was the president, or exalted cyclops.
Did you know this to be a fact, sir ?
Mr, Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Bruce Bairnsfather was the secretary, or kligrapp.
Did you know this to be a fact ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer this question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. J. R. Douglas was the klabee, or treasurer. Did you
know this to be a fact ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 6." See p. 2369.)
Mr. Appell. This signature card was changed on August 21, 1963,
with Robert Fuller as the exalted cyclops. Did you know that Robert
Fuller was the exalted cyclops ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the questions on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know that Russell A. Price was the secretary ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know that the Reverend Louis Warren was the
treasurer ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 7.*' See p. 2370.)
Mr. Appell. On January 21, 1964, the signature card was again
changed to this account with the exalted cyclops being James C. Oliver,
who was employed by Louisiana State Highway Department. Did
you know him to be the exalted cyclops?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. That F. T. Odom according to the bank records was the
vice president. Did you know him to be the vice president?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Appell, That Russell A. Price was the secretary. Did you
know him to be the secretary ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 8."- See p. 2371.
Exhibits Nos. 6, 7, and 8 follow:)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2369
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 6
CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
MONROE. LOUISIANA
Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization
To CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
At a regular meeting of th,. /^ &-ViyiO-€ /JxA.^Ui^ d^M ^ y^-^oA'-x^ej cJiLp-
of the-
held on the ^J "^^V of jttjAiA^ 19w_^, at which a quorum
was present, the following officers were cJuly elected for the ensuing year and until their successors shall be
elected and shall have qualified:
Name Title
'hvtrvtA.i^^ /(A^.^*C^^ <n^u^ 1-.J'^JL:^cl ^K^
Under the rules of the_
osiled to its credit with the Central Savings Bank"S Trust Co. may be withdrawn by the_
ntral Savings Bank & Trust '
qyiA^ 'TA^'iC^'A'cAjey^^ ^ /d^^^Vi.zjL QaaJj- <^^.c«M.-^iL.!<lC<^X^
(U»e blank ipaces for ti?lei of ngn.ng officers ar^d Jt»le whelher ch?eki w.ll b^ar one sigriafor* or will be ligned ancf tounlefi-qned)
who authorized to endorse and sign Checks, Drafts and Orders for the payment of money.
The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the above bank is concerned until it be notifed
in writing of the revocation of such authority and shall in writing acknowledge receipt thereof
n
Approved: W^^"^
,^4^^/2^^*^_
TRUE COPY
Cenlfal Savings Bank & Tturt C9«
MONROE. lOBtSlMl* i.
2370
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 7
CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
MONROE. LOUISIANA
Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization
To CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
n.,. August 21
MEMBERS
At a regular meeting of the
gf ,h» Monroe Hunting & Fishing Club
.19-
63
held on the.
_day of_
.19.
at which a quorum
wai present, the following officers were duly elected for the ensuing year and until their successors shall be
elected and shall have qualified:
Name Title Specimen Signature
President ;// ^i-Ax*
Robert
Full
er
Warren
Russe
11
A.
Price
Treasurer
Secretary
Under the rules of lhe_
Any funds deposited to its credit with the Central Savings Bank & Trust Co may be withdrawn by the_
____^ Any two (2)
(Use blank ipaect for tiHei of signing officeri and sfate whether chscki wll bear one signaiurc or will be signed and countersigned)
who ?£f — authorized to endorse and sign Checks, Drafts and Orders for the payment of money
The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the above bank is concerned until it be notifed
in writing of the revocation of such authority and shall in writing acknowledge receipt thereof
r '
n
iiUjiil U r}l^i
/-
L
Approved:
J
TRUE C0P7
Cmtral Savines Bank S Trust Co^
MONROE. lOUISlAMA
V) - --
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2371
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 8
CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
MONROE, LOUISIANA
Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization
To CENTRAL SAVINGS BANK & TRUST CO.
n... January 21, , ,_64^
At « regular meeting of the Membership
of the Monroe Hunting & Fishing Club
held on the dey of 19 , at which a quorum
wat present, the following officers were duly elected for the ensuing year and until their successors shall be
elected and ihall have qualified:
Name
Title /I Specimen Signature
James C. Oliver President yr^<- '----.r 'J- (- C .t..
F. T. Odom Vice President /,/ / , (^yf yf ^ 'j p l ^.
p //rK
Russell A. Price Secretary Kh)KL( f./ ^'lU'L
Under the rules of the By-laws
Any funds deposited to its credit with the Central Savings Bank & Trust Co. may be withdrawn by the_
President and Vice President and Secretary (Any Two (2) )
(Um bUnk ipactl for tillvl of ligning officeri and Hale whether checki will bear one lignalure or will be ligned and counlertigned)
who authorized to endorse and sign Checks, Drafts and Orders for the payment of money
The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the above bank is concerned until it be notifed
In writing of the revocation of such authority and shall in writing acknowledge receipt thereof
r n . KH-rn^ u rn<-(i^
. UL)yi// U /vH-a
..Af^
<f-fx.-£ '-y—
jT^^M^
True copv
BWiffBl Savines Bank & Trusf Co.
L J ,i«0««OE. lO»ISIAII/> /
Approved: f ' ^) - c_
2372 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, as the Grand Dragon of this organization,
can you tell me why Klaverns in Louisiana select as cover names for
the Klavern rather than the unit designation given to it by the Klan
organization the names of hunting and fishing clubs or sportsmen's
clubs?
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, according to the deposit slips contained in
the bank records of the account to which we have just referred, and
also in the Winnsboro State Bank and Trust Company in Winnsboro,
Louisiana, in the name of the Christian Constitutional Crusaders, I
put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that the
following Klaverns were ^vithin your jurisdiction: The Ouachita
Parish Hunting and Fishing Club; the Sterlington Hunting and Fish-
ing Club; the Concordia Sportsman Club; the Clinton Hunting and
Fishing Club; the Deere Creek Sportsman's Club; Jena Hunting and
Fishing Club; Northeast Gun Club; Tensas Sportsman Club; Black
Eiver Lake Sporting Club; Arcadia Sportsman Club; West Carroll
Rifleman Club; Watson Hunting Club; Delta Sportsman Club; Baker
Plunting and Fishing Club; Delhi Sportsman Club; Okaloosa Hunt-
ing and Fishing Club; Many Hunting and Fishing Club; Catahoola
Sportsman Club; Deville Hunting and Fishing Club; Folsom Sports-
man's Club ; Turkey Creek Rod and Gun Club ; Hineston Hunting and
Fishing Club ; Madison Parish Rifle Club ; Boeuf River Hunting
Club; Vamado Sportsmans Club; Vidalia Sportsman's Club; New
River Rifle Club; Homer Hunting and Fishing Club; Roseland Hunt-
ing Club; Pride Sportsman League, in East Baton Rouge; Swartz
Hunting and Fishiiig Club ; The Choudrant Rod and Gun Club ; Val-
ley Hunting Club; Covington Hunting and Fishing Club; Pine Grove
Hunting and Fishing Club; Big River Sportsman's Club.
I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to deny or affirm the fact, that
these were organizations within your organization.
Mr. Martin. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, during the time that you wei-e Grand
Dragon of the Original Knights in 1964, did Russell Magee hold a
position within your organization as related to the Sixth Congres-
sional District of Louisiana ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I show you two checks, one dated 6/29 and the other
7/13 [1964] drawn against the account of the Christian Constitutional
Crusaders, check of 6/29 in the amount of $o77.01 and the clieck of
7/13 in the amount of $40()^check in the amount of $400 the ])urpose
for which drawn being the "Sixth District Fund." Will you examine
these checks and advise the committee for what purpose those checks
were drawn ?
These are both made payable to Russell Magee.
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer the question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Checks marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 9" follow on p. 2373.)
(At this point Mr. Pool left tlie hearing room.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, I liand you an envelope witli checks dated,
the first one, Februai-y 13, 1964, and the last one Se])teml)er 12, 1964,
all but one payable to Muri*y H. Martin, the total of these checks
amounting to $3,558.09, and I want to ask you after you examine these
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2373
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 9
Tlie OVACHJTA Nationm. BANpt
c
Ihraa hundrcd'^VTcnty-ac
!»_-., m* t»0»u* tm uWUmMir
X
i: k u I'-oo } hn
TiiE OiAciiiTA Natwnal Bank
_^'.:r hiriHred k WC/lOC
10 nwarr«u*jMrwark«MW<
t —
Cilll-OOiM
checks with regard to the purpose for which these checks were made
payable to you.
Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Checks marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 10.")
Mr. Appell. Did you report that income on your Federal income
tax returns?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I show you an envelope containing checks payable to
Houston P. Morris totaling $628.46. After examining them I ask you
the purpose for which those checks were drawn.
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer the question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Checks marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 11."")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, I show you an envelope containing checks,
all but one payable to Robert Fuller. These checks starting with
February 11, 1964, total $3,955.47. I ask you what purpose these
checks were drawn for.
(At this point Mr. Willis left the hearing room — Mr. Weltner
presiding.)
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Checks marked "Murry Martin Plxhibit No. 12."")
Mr. Appell. I show you an envelope containing checks all payable
to L. G. Wilder totaling $3,060.58. I ask you the purpose for which
those checks were drawn.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
2374
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Checks marked "Murry^ Martin Exhibit No. 13." One check from
each of said exhibits Nos. 10-13 follows; balance retained in committee
files.)
i
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 10
• ' — ^"^TTrrrr-
Tai OUACBTTA FlATIQ«JMtiL j
S. ^ "I
MuRRY M.\RTiN Exhibit No. 1 1
TiiE Oi'ACHiTA National Bank
IN MONROC
• Ml
So.
57
I t»n<
On* Hundrtid Thirty
Tite Houston P. Morrl
t»n«»«ii or ... .
I»
m«<lbr*tfi*Mr
trrl
5-" ,.^
J I tfH¥ti>n Coiiet. Cru««<l«rt
:^1
•: 1 1 1 i«oo i n:
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 12
i^aai.
The Oi!ACiiiTA National Bank
IM MOHMMI
MOKMO*. L*.
Robert Fuller
• Ml
MO. .62
,3)6.50
.....#« AA
Three hundred thlrty-«lx t 50/100-
'ttouMmm
m
n>t nh»i»ui»)Miw>i»r^
Ctorittian Cfwct. Cruasdert
CIV vn-oo 1 v<:
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, these names that I have read to you, I put
it to you as a fact that they were the leaders, you and the others were
the leaders, of the Original Knights following the leadership of Mr.
Young and Mr. Swenson, I ask you to affirm or deny that.
(At this point Mr. Willis returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer the question on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell, Irrespective of what the constitutional laws of the or-
ganization set forth as their purpose, as far as you individuals were
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2375
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 13
The OiAciiiTA National Bank ,«
IN M4>NM>« Nu. '
.MuT?l.., L. ". wilder ^ , 2'/3.53
Two Hundred Ninty TViTPe ft 53/lCX)— *— — — r>f>txAM«
I Christian Comat. Crueacrers
iU i i l-OO 3 W
concerned, did it have any purpose other than to bring money into
yourself ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constiutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. I would like to direct a question or two to Mr. Ap-
pell, the investigator.
Mr. Appell, you are reminded that you are still under oath.
As chief investigator, and after having made an examination and
analysis of the several packets of checks which you just referred to, I
wonder if you would give to the committee your conclusions as to the
nature, character, and object of those checks insofar as those con-
clusions were derived from your examination.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Weltner, an examination of this account shows
that in addition to the checks that we have exhibited to the witness
that very few people benefited from the funds that were submitted to
the grand or state treasuiy, and it appears that with respect to some
of them that this was their percentage for going out and deceiving-
people into believing that the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
had a purpose other than getting members.
Mr. Weltner. Are these for robe sales, klectokons, and the like ?
Mr. Appell. No, sir. The items that you describe are the deposits
to the account. This is the way the klectokons and initiation fees and
dues' and other assessments were disbursed by the State organization
after they received them from the Klavern. They disbursed them to
themselves.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, under the constitution of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan the organizational structure calls for,
on the realm level, a Grand Dragon. Under him there is a Grand
Titan, who is the assistant to the Grand Dragon. I ask you who held
that office.
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Referring to this document, Mr. Martin, I see that
there is a provision for several committees: education committee,
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 4
2376 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
membership committee, benevolence committee, building committee,
public relations committee, and klokan committee. Would you give
the committee the identities of tlie chairmen of these respective com-
mittees ?
Mr. Martix. I must respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. The constitution sets forth many ways in which the
Klan dedicates itself, but then it sets forth under a title ''The AVay
Of TheKlavenr':
The following should be given to each new member immediately after the
naturalization ceremony.
The newly made member be conducted to the Klocards' station by the Kladd.
The Klocard will then instruct the new members as follows :
1. Destroy application
»****♦«
What is the purpose of that, Mr. Martin ?
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer the question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Is it not a fact that after the application is destroyed
that that man is known only by a number which is known only to the
secretary of the Klavern ?
Mr. Martix. I must respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. On the grand or state level, did you as the Grand
Dragon ever receive the identity of a member of the Ku Klux Klan
no matter into which Klavern he was naturalized other than the
Klavern with which you might he affiliated yourself?
Mr. Martix. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Can you advise the committee with regard to the
responsibilities and purposes of the klokan committee?
Mr. Martix. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was it your responsibility to concern yourself with
the appointment by the klokan office, the person who held the office
of klokan in the Klavern, as to an organization which he creates under
the constitution and bylaws known as the wrecking crew?
Mr. Martix. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. What was the purpose of the ''wrecking crew*'?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. This morning, Mr. Martin, I quoted from IVIr. Sim-
mons' testimony about "keep the secrets, enjoy life, and violate them
and beware of death." The Original Ku Klux Klan Konstitution
reads as follows :
Any Klansman who is known to violate our rules, especially those that give
information to any aliens, shall be expelled immediately, then is to be watched
and visited by the Wrecking Crew if necessary.
Can you help the Congress to understand this function that is ex-
plained in this document ?
Mr. Martix. I respectfully decline to answer tlie question on tlie
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Is this not for the purpose of intimidating members
of the Klan if they ever get out and speak against it, that physical
harm will come to them ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2377
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. This document also says with respect to the wrecking
crew that:
Each unit will set up at least one team of six men to be used for wrecking
trew. These men should be appointed by the Klokan in secrecy.
Can you advise the committee why it is necessary for a Klavern
to appoint this wrecking crew and the identity of the wrecking crew
to be secret from all members of the Klavern except for the members
who serve in the klokan who appoint them ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional gromids previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Is this not for the purpose of eliminating exposure in
case the Klan carries out — the wrecking crew carries out acts of vio-
lence, that people will not know^ even within the Klan those responsi-
ble for the acts ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answ-er the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. If the Klan organization which you head is as it repre-
sents itself to be, can you explain to the committee this language con-
tained in the constitution :
All Klaverns will have at least five armed guards with flashlights posted dur-
ing regular meetings.
(a) No one will be allowed to carry a gun inside the Klavern during regular
meetings except the Night Hawk.
(b) No one will carry a gun inside during a state or province meeting except
those appointed by the Chief KBI or Province KBI.
Can you explain this to the committee in light of what the Klan
allegedly stands for ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a leader of the Klan, Mr. Martin, will you tell this
committee of the Congress what your organization does stand for ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional ground previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Martin, I regret you take that position. It
would be helpful to this committee and the Congi'ess to know, and 1
sliould say that dedicated members who believe and talk inside about
the nobility of Klan organizations as represented by you and other
leaders in literature, would feel better if someone of your stature repre-
senting the Klan would simply come up before this committee and
just tell us what their objectives are. What does it stand for? What
are the programs of the Klan, and so on ?
We wish someone would come, talk, and tell us. Not that we would
accept all tliey might say, but the truth will remain indestructible
wherever it is. Here is your opportunity to stand up and tell us what
you stand for really, in addition to what is distributed to the rank-
and-file members with regard to anticommunism, national defense,
and all the rest. Here is your chance.
I really would like for you to tell us what I know you must have
said time and time again on the streets in your hometown, at Klavern
meetings. You appear to be very intelligent. I suppose you make a
pretty good speech. I know you have spoken about those things before
and I know you represent yourself as believing what the Klan
stands for.
2378 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Our job is to (jive information to Congress, all the information,
whatever good there is in the Klan organization, and so on. Put it in
the record. Here is your splendid chance. I want you to talk and tell
us all about it. AVould you care to avail yourself of the opportunity?
I say, do you care to avail yourself of the opportunity ?
Mr. Marti X. No.
The Chairman, You do not?
Mr. Martin. No.
The Chairman. You nodded your head in the negative. Your
answer is "No" ?
Mr. Martin. My answer is I most respectfully decline to answer
the question on the constitutional ground previously stated.
Mr. Afpei,l. Mr. Martin, is it a fact that Mr. Swenson was removed
from the offices he held in the Original Knights because of profit that
he was making on the sale of Klan robes ?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer the question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I ask you that, Mr, Martin, because in the constitution
in effect under your regime there is contained this language :
Uniforms (robes) will all be made by the same standards by Klansmen in
Realm. We shall have at least two manufacturers. One for South La. and one
for North La. Since there is considerable profit envolved [sic] in this project,
the following has been suggested : Determine amount of profit and pay makers
accordingly out of realm treasury. Orders to be placed with secretary who will
collect $10.00 for each. Profit will thereby go to Realm to be used for Klan ex-
penses.
Who was appointed as the robe manufacturer for north Louisiana ?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer the question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr, Appell. Who was appointed as the manufacturer for south
Louisiana ?
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, does your organization, the Original
Knights, have any relationship or affiliation with any other Klan
group ?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you affiliated with the National Knights of the
KuKluxKlan?
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you hold the office of klokan in the [National]
Knights?
Mr. Martin, Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Within that organization does the klokan have the
responsibility for performing wrecking crews?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. On May 22 and 23, 1965, did you attend a meeting of
the National Knights held at the Dobie Motel in Montgomery,
Alabama ?
Mr. Martin, I must respectfully decline to answer that question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2379
h
Mr. Appell. During the course of that meeting did friction develo
between the leader of the organization, James Venable, and Hug
Morris, both of Georgia ?
Mr. Martin. I nmst respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was there discussion as to w^hat you might do, that is
the Klan groups affiliated in the National Knights, with people who
could not be controlled and whom the groups wished to be quieted ?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was there discussed the subject of castration?
Mr. Martin. I must respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was it reported by any of the leaders there that they
would not engage in castration, but that if it was necessary to liquidate
someone to prove that the Klan was not kidding, that this would be
done ?
Mr. Martin. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, at 3 :25 p.m., the subcommittee recessed and recon-
vened at 3:38 p.m., with Representatives Willis, Weltner, and
Buchanan, of the subcommittee, present at time of recess and when
hearings resumed.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will resume the hearings. Please
resume the stand, Mr. Martin.
A quorum of the subcommittee met during the recess and voted
unanimously to make public certain excerpts of executive testimony
received from James R. Venable on October 6, 1965. The released
excerpts appear from line 25 on page 1125 through line 11 on page
1126, also from line 21 on page 1149 to line 5 on page 1150 of the tran-
script of that day of the executive hearing.
Mr. Weltner desires to propound a couple of questions to the witness
in this connection.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Martin, I would like to read the first portion of
this testimony. Prior to doing that I would like to say to the witness
and to the committee that the witness James R. Venable appeared in
Washington on October 6 voluntarily, without having been placed
under subpena, and he continued through that entire day and answered
all the questions that were propounded to him without resorting to
any kind of constitutional claim of privilege. I want to make that
clear.
The portion that I would like to read to you appears on page 1125.
It is a question by Mr. Manuel and answered by Mr. Venable :
Mr. Manuel. Do you have any chartered Klaverns in the State of Louisiana?
Mr. Venable. No, the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan has not got
any, to my knowledge. I know the other two Klan groups down there. I don't
know under what names they operate. I know the two gentlemen who are al-
leged to head them ; I don't know the names.
The Chairman. Can we have their names? Do their names come to you?
Mr. Venable. One of them is named Mr. P. L. Morgan from Coushatta and
the other gentleman's name is M. H. Martin of Winnsboro.
My question is. Are you the M. H. Martin of Winnsboro referred
to in the testimony on the part of the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux
Klan, James R. Venable?
2380 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the q\iestion on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. AYeltner. I ask you whether or not that statement given under
oath by Mr. Venable is true ?
Mr. Martin. I again respectfully decline to answer the question on
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. The other portion of this testimony concerned a
matter previously touched upon by Mr. Appell and the inquiry con-
cerning "wrecking crews." This colloquy which I will read to you
has to do with the Klan as it was reconstituted in 1915 and existed
generally through a 30-year period thereafter, referred to as the
Old Klan.
Mr. Appell. Recalling back in your young days and your knowledge that
there did exist such things as wrecking crews, it would be only the members
of the crew that would know the identity of the crew members; is that right?
Mr. Venable. That is right.
Mr. Appell. So, therefore, the average Klansman, while he might understand
there is a crew, he would know nothing about it?
Mr. Venable. He would not know who they were or what they do ; they
would keep it secret among themselves.
That appears on page 1149 of the transcript of October 6, 1965.
My question is, in the light of that testimony, whether or not the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, or any successor thereto, in
which you may have had an office or title employed a wrecking crew
or any other similar committee or any other function with a similar
purpose.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, the portions which I have read I
think constitute the entire portions of the record which have been
released to the public, and I have no further questions.
The Chairman, Proceed, Mr. Appell,
Mr. Appell, Mr, Martin, did the Louisiana Joint Legislative Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities conduct an investigation into the Ku
Klux Klan in Louisiana ? Did it, sir?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell, I show you a reproduction of certain pages from a
report issued by that committee. This is a "Q and A" taken by the
staff director of that committee of one Mr. "Murray" Martin. I show
you this and put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the
fact, that you are the "Murray" H, Martin whose testimony is re-
corded in that document.
Mr. Martin, Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated,
(Document marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 14." See pp. 2383-
2393.)
Mr, Appell, Mr, Martin, was the testimony which you gave to the
staff director of the joint committee truthful in all respects?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. A review of this testimony shows that in questioning
as to what the Original Knights stands for, you picked out from the
oaths taken by Klansmen those which relate to the Constitution of
the United States, upholding it. I would like to ask you why you
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2381
did not put into this record those oaths under [K]an]*ishncss, espe-
cially the oath which says :
I swear that I will never allow any animosity, friction nor ill will to arise and
remain between myself and a [Klan.s]*man but will be cons^tant in my efforts to
promote real [Klan]*ishness among the members of this Order. I swear that 1
will keep secure to myself a sielcret of a [Klans]*man when same has been com-
mitted to me in the sacred bond of [Klans]*manship. The crime of violating this
solemn oath — , treason against the United States of America, rape, and malicious
murder alone excepted.
"Why did you not put this into this transcript and give a true picture
of your Original Knights ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Why did you not bring to the attention of the com-
mittee the existence of wrecking crews and the functions of wrecking
crews in giving a picture of the Original lOiights in Louisiana? I
ask you why ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In light of the oath which I read to you, Mr. Martin,
I would like you to explain to the committee an answer to a question
asked of you, and I shall read to you both the question and your
answer :
Q. — Mr. Martin, what protection have you got built into your organizational
structure or procedures to protect your Organization from people who would
use the cover of the existence of the Klan to commit crime?
A. — Our Organization actually is based upon, and its primary function is by,
Committees ; such Committees as an Investigating Committee, and should this
violence, or lawbreaking, or crime come to our attention, of course, this Com-
mittee would investigate, and should we be successful, we would turn the person
over to the Law, or at least tell the Law who he was so that we wouldn't get the
blame for it. We have gotten the blame for a lot of it in the past and we hope
we can help to stop it. Our prime purpose, of course, is not to avoid the blame,
but to assist the law enforcement officers in their duties. As I have already
stated, that's in our Oath that we should do so, and we do.
In light of the fact that a Klansman takes an oath not to divulge
a secret of a Klansman except in the case of treason against the United
States, rape, and malicious murder, how could your organization turn
any information over to law enforcement agencies when committed
by members of your Klan ?
Mr. IVIartin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In your association with the Klan, have you ever turned
over to law enforcement agencies any knowledge relating to violence on
the part of a Klansman ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. You told the Louisiana committee that you distribute
literature, not only that published by yourself, but that published by
other people. As an exhibit there is reproduced a document, "The
Meaning Of Americanism.'' I would like to ask you to tell me, in
light of the constitution and laws, the existence of the wrecking
crews, and the violence on the part of members of your organization,
how you can distribute this as a policy and principle of the Klan:
Americanism holds that every person has an inherent right to think, to act,
to express opinions, to seek redress against wrongs, and enlarge his personality
2382 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
without fear. It gives eacii American, wtiether ricli or poor, white or black,
Jew or Gentile, the right to challenge wrong and oppression without the threat
of retaliation. It means that every American be given the right to invest in the
soil of his country and to reap the benefits from his labors and his thrift. Ameri-
canism holds that these rights be protected for all, not merely for the privileged.
Isn't this a direct contradiction of what the Original Knights of
the Kii Khix Klan stands for ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr Martin, in presenting yourself for interrogation
by the staff director of the Louisiana joint committee, were you under
subpena ?
The Chairman. I think the question should be extended by saying,
"Were you under subpena or did you voluntarily appear ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I think the transcript indicates, does it not, Mr.
Appell, that he appeared voluntarily ?
Mr. Appell. The transcript is silent, Mr. Chairman. It just shows
he was sworn and gave the following testimony, and does not say
whether the staff consultation resulted from appearance pursuant
to a subpena.
Mr. Martin, I ask if you can explain to this committee why you
voluntarily testified or why you did answer questions there and not
invoke constitutional privileges, and you invoke constitutional privi-
leges before this body ?
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr, Weltner. We have established clearly that this transcript was
of a consultation held on April 17, 1965, bearing in mind that that was
some 6 weeks after this committee of the Congress resolved unani-
mously to conduct the pending investigation of the Ku Klux Klan
organization. The transcript, of course, speaks for itself, but it says
the witness, "Mr. Murray Martin," having been duly sworn to tell
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as fol-
lows, and the transcript is some 28 pages of testimony, including ex-
hibits, constituting an answer to each ouestion propounded to the wit-
ness. April 17, 1965, was the date of the appearance.
Let me ask one more question.
Mr. Martin, one question — on page 25 of this transcript the ques-
tion :
Does your Organization in any way propose to achieve its goals by violence,
or any means other than the political action that you are describing?
The answer to the question notes:
No, sir, we do not advocate violence.
I would like to propound that question to you again, sir. Does your
organization in any way propose to achieve its goals by violence or
any means other than political action which you have described?
That is my question.
Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. No further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
(Murry Martin Exhibit No. 14 introduced on p. 2380 follows:)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2383
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14
[Excerpt from June 16, 1965, hearings before The Joint Legislative Committee on Un-American
Activities ol Louisiana held in Baton Rouge, La. Hon. Jesse M. Knowles, chairman; Jack N
Rogers, Committee counsel. Report No. 7, July 26, 1965.]
TRANSCRIPT OF STAFF CONSULTATION HELD ON APRIL
17. 1965. AT 7:22 P. M:, at COLUMBIA, LOUISIANA. JACK N.
ROGERS, ESQ.. COMMITTEE COUNSEL FOR THE JOINT LEGIS-
LATIVE COMMITTEE ON UNAMERICAN ACTIVITIES, PRE-
SIDING.
BY MR. ROGERS:
Under the power vested in me by Senate Resolution #12,
Kfgular Session, 1964, and the Rules of the Committee, I now swear
the first witness in this Staff Consultation.
THE WITNESS. MR. MURRAY MARTIN, AFTER FIRST
HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE
WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP
HIM GOD, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. ROGERS:
Q — Please give me your name, sir?
A — Murray Martin.
Q — Where do you live, Mr. Martin?
A — In Winnsboro, Louisiana.
Q — Where and when were you born?
A — At Tioga, Louisiana, 1924, June 1.
Q — What do you do for a living?
A — I am a building contractor.
Q--What is the correct name of the Klan Organization you
represent?
A— The Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Q — What is the title of your Klan office, and what level of
K'a'ier.ship does that title mean?
.v — I am Grand Dragon, artd the level of leadership would be
17
2384 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
the same as the Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Q — What geographical area does that cover?
A — The State of Louisiana.
Q — Isyour Klan Organization connected with any oiher Klan
Organization?
A — We are loosely connected with another Klan Organization,
yes, sir.
Q — If so, which one is that?
A- — We are connected with the National Association of Klans
known as the Associated Klans of America.
()— Mr. Martin, who i.-< the national head of your Klan Organiza-
tion?
A — We have no national head.
Q — As I understand your testimony, you are the head in the
State of Louisiana, is that correct?
A— That's true.
Q — How and by whom are the objectives of your organization
determined?
\ — They are determined by a Board of Officei-s.
Q — Is it a large Board?
A — Relatively small.
Q — .Are the people who determine your policy on this Board
a!l citizens of the State of Louisiana?
A — That is right, that is true.
Q — Is your organization connected in any v/ay with the Com-
munist Party?
.A — Definitely not.
i} — How about any other foreign paity, or agency, or govern-
inmt?
18
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2385
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
A — No, sir.
Q — Would you care to elaborate on that, sir?
A — One of our questions asked of all candidates is this: "Do
yiiu esteem the United States of America and its institutions above
any government, civil, political, or ecclesiastical in the whole world?"
And another one is: "Are you absolutely opposed to and free of any
allegiance of any nature to any cause, government, people, sect, or
ruler that is foreign to the United States of America?" Both of these
questions must be answered "yes" before the candidate can proceed.
Q — Are these questions a.sked your prospective members under
..ath?
A — They are.
Q — Is any Pledge or Oath of Allegiance required of all of your
members?
A— Yes.
Q — Does this in any way infringe upon, or negate, complete
loyalty to the Constitution of the United States?
A — No, sir, in fact they must swear allegiance to the United
States to become a member.
() — Would you mind telling us what words are required to do
this? Can you do this?
A — I can and I will. This is part of the Oath: "I most solemnly
assert and affirm, that to the Government of the United States of
America, and any State thereof of which I may become a member,
1 sacredly vow unqualified allegiance above any other, and every
kind of government in the whole world. I here and now pledge my
life, my property, my vote, and my sacred honor to uphold its
tlag, its Constitution, and Constitutional Laws and will protect, de-
fend, and enforce same unto death."
Q — Mr. Martin, what is the policy of your Organization as to
law violations?
A— I will again quote from our Oath: "I swear that 1 will
always, and at any and all times, and in all places, help, aid, and
assist the duly constituted officers of the Law in the proper perform-
19
2386 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
ance of their legal duties."
Q — Would you explain what policy your Organization has
toward a member who might be involved in a crime, caught, and
convicted?
A — If and when he is convicted, then he is either expelled or
banished from the Organization. Does that explain it pretty well?
A — Yes, sir.
Q — What are the qualifications for membership in your Organi-
zation?
A — Of course, a man must be of good character, first.
Q — How do you determine that, Mr. Martin?
A — We have a system of elections whereby a man may enter
into our Organization, and he is first invited to join after having
been cleared by all of the members, and his name is published in two
legular meetings, and any one man in the Organization can, if he so
desires, stop the admittance of any man.
Q — By "Organization" you mean on the local level?
A — On the local level.
Q — Do you have any special name for the local level group?
A — Klavern. This also is in our Oath and I would like to give
that to you.
Q — Would you, please?
A — The candidate or the man being initiated has to swear
that: "I will never recommend any person for membership in this
Order whose mind is unsound, or whose reputation I know to be bad,
or whose character is doubtful, or whose loyalty to our Country is
in any way questionable."
Q — What other qualifications do you have for membership, Mr.
Martin?
A — A man must first believe in the tenets of the Christian
Religion. Would you like for me to give you all of the qualifying
questions?
20
ACTIVrTIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2387
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
Q — Would you, please?
A — All of these questions must be answered "yes" by any person
>«'<'kin}? admittance into our Orj^^anization : First, "Is the motive
pfdmpting your ambition to be a Klansman serious and unselfish?"
So(<.'nd, "Are you a native-born white gentile American citizen?"
Third, "Are you absolutely opposed to, and free of any allegiance of
any nature to any cause, government, people, sect, or ruler that is
foreign to the United States of America?" Fourth, "Do you believe
in the tenets of the Christian Religion?" Fifth, "do you esteem the
I'nited States of America and its institutions above any other Govern-
TTiciit, Civil, Political, or Ecclesiastical in the whole world?" Sixth,
Will you, without mental reservation, take a solemn oath to defend,
; reserve, and enforce same?" Seventh, "Do you believe in Klanishness
ii.'id will you practice same towards Klansmen?" Eighth, "Do you be-
i.eve in, and will you faithfully strive for the eternal maintenance
"t white supremacy?" Ninth, "Will you faithfully obey our Con-
-titution and Laws and conform with them to all of our usages, re-
(luirements, and regulations?" Tenth, "Can you always be depended
upon?"
Q — Mr. Martin, are there any other qualifications for member-
ship other than the ones you have read to me?
.A — 1 believe not. I would like to say that we are trying our
test to eliminate any undesirables from our Organization. I would
also like to .state that we have no sex-perverts, or homosexuals, or
hcatiiiks in our Organization, and I defy anyone to find them,
Q — Approximately how many members do you have in the State
(»f Louisiana?
A — This, I must respectfully decline to answer, since to answer
!• would put me in violation of the Oath that I have taken to the
Kian.
Q — What are the objectives of your Organization?
A — Our objectives are to return our (^lovernment to the Con-
stitution. We believe in constitutional government. We have a .set of
Koals. a written one that I would be glad to send you. I am sorry I
do not have one with me. It lists our goals and our hopes for the
future. Of course, our prime purpo.se is the preservation of individual
and national liberty.
0 — Do you ascribe, as an organization, to this written state-
21
2388 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
ment of principles that you are going to send me — this written
statement of objectives?
A — Yes, I do.
Q — By what means does your Organization propose to realize
these objectives?
A — Through governmental affairs, the education of ourselves
and the general public as to the trend of Government towards the
left and continuing headlong flight towards Communism.
Q — I understand from this that you mean primarily by educa-
'lon, is this correct?
A — Well, no, of course, after you educate yourself, then we
will vote at the polls to remove such scalawags that propose and keep
proposing legislation to sell us to the "tine world government."
Q — Does your Organization in any way propose to achieve its
goals by violence, or any means other than the political action that
you are describing?
A — No, sir, we do not advocate violence.
Q — Mr. Martin, what protection have you got built into your
organizational structure or procedures to protect your Organization
from people who would use the cover of the existence of the Klan
to commit crime?
A — Our Organization actually is based upon, and its primary
function is by, Committees; such Committees as an Investigating
Committee, and should this violence, or lawbreaking, or crime come
to iiur attention, of course, this Committee would investigate, and
.-Mould we be successful, we would turn the person over to the Law,
ur at least tell the Law who he was so that we wouldn't get the
blame for it. We have gotten the blame for a lot of it in the past
and we hope we can help to stop it. Our prime purpose, of course, is
not to avoid the blame, but to assist the law enforcement officers in
their duties. As I have already stated, that's in our Oath that we
should do so, and we do.
Q -Will youi* furnish our Committee with samples of the liter-
ature and printed materials u.sed by your Organization? You under-
stand, we don't expect you to give us .something that you have sworn
to keep secret, but we would like samples to the limit of what you
25
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2389
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
FIFTY REASONS WHY YOO SHOULD BE A MEMBER OF THE ORIGINAL KU KLUX KUAN
l-B*c*uM the Klaii It a grt*t, legal American Inticution o( Americai
Z-B*cata* It a tW only 0((aiiiutica on lanh when only native-born. White, Ccntilc Anxiicaa cMaaat B«k* Hp Iti niambaalilp.
3-Becauae It It « mllitaat C^HtUao oigaiuiatloD, oppoaad to all formf of Athaltm.
4-B*cais« It thrmn la itioai arm of protcctioii around your family u your abaaaca
S-B*catae It bellevaj la and fighti for White Supremacy
6-B*c>»e It laved the South twice, and will lave It t%tin and a(aiB.
7-Becaua« It It compoaed of hS. men and not lilly diliy bumant
&-Bacaut« It U founded deep In the tenett of the Cfarituan rellgiaB
9-ftecauae It It an open luppoeter of the Conttltutlon
10-Bccaua< u It the CtC oiganluiioa fighting for repeal cf the Segregation lullng by the Supram* Couft al the Itelud Statai.
Il-Bacaisa It baliavat In and flgbtt for itate lovercigiiry
I2-Becauia It ii aalthar Democratic or Republican, politically, \xa ALWAYS AMERICAN.
1)-B«caua« It flghn ior the glory of the flag and for the rigbti of tree men.
M-fiecai«a It bellevct In law and order and good govemmeaL
15-Bacaiaa It exalts principle above men.
16-kcauic It ttarxk for legregated ichoolt, NOV and ALWAYS!
17-Becaute It It oppoaad to Ixaermarriages between ni^ett and White people Several ttstaa have aliea^ lagallMd tuch mantagat,
and more ai« to foUow.
18-Bacai»e It b«llcvat that the White race It Cod'i race through which Kie wana to maintain a JiMt chrUliatlaa
19-Bccaisa It bellcvci the Klhlc doctrine of the leparatioc of the racet.
20-Becaisc It bellevai that Judlaitm It iKX Che lellgion of the Bible, b>< that It ii • nt of fiiaclplaa lor the popoM of alavatia( tb«
Chrlttla* >ew beyond the White race*.
21 -Because It hat an effective program againtt Socialism, Communltm, and uloa left wtjig liberalltaB.
22-Becau>e It believes the highest type of citiieoship it Chrlttian citlarnahip.
23-Becai«e It believes all Coistitubocal changes are to be made by Congrcai, and racifled by the StsM lagltlafit
24-Bccaute It believes In getting the United Statet out of the United Nationt OlganliaClOB.
2S-Bectuse It believes that every preacher holding t comrcgatlon bttt who teach iMcgratioa tboold ratln from Ut piilptt, etthai
willingly or be forced out.
26-Becauae It It oppcsad to fcecing defenselesi children to have nigger playmstal
27-Because It believes in free speech and free peeas, at oppoted further to a police nmm.
28-Beca>ae we bcUrve it to be the most effective way to flfht all fbmit of lubveaiaB.
29-Becttae we oppose niggeit teaching White children in public ichools, which they will do la all iMfntad r^H""'' befora loag.
30-Bccauae It ic the moat effective way to fight oeganized alinc In a community.
31-Becai»e It teaches men ihould love theli own wives and let other woman alona.
32-BecauBe It It opposed to Loan Sharla chafing an unlawful rote of toteicat to the poor people
33-Bccaiae It believes in trials by jury
M-Becai»e It doe* not cadoBC cither the Republican or Democratic peitlet politically at tuch, bta doat tupport caadldata* la both
paitles when tald cawtldttet ttaad for a 100% Amerlcaaitm
3S-Becai»a It It oppoted to dtaatmames In any form and laulterally la favor of Che rif he of '^«^««— to bear anat.
36-Becaiae it teaches that every icbool teacher la our public tchoolt ibould be retired who bellcvat la and taachat liCegratlOB of
the blach aad White meet
37-Becaute It itaB<k for the dlteafranrhltement of all foralgnca who have not been la Aatartca tor the lame leafth of time re-
quired o\M own boys and gixls to reach legal votlag age.
38-Because it ttaixk for tagregstloa on Imnam In penal aad mental latitutloat, especially the Juvealle*
39-Becaiae It opposes free Communis Uteraturt being tea thfough (b» Ubited Stacaa mall to Amerlcaat.
40-Becaiae It It unalterably oppoaed to the Zionist jew program.
41 -Because It It oppoted to the And-Defamatian league in all respects.
42-Becau*« It knows the Ublud NaUoat Chaiter hat ututped the ConatltutlOB of tlHse Ualted States, aad we aie tryt^ to get Che
United St^cs out of the UN
43-Becsuse It wm here YESTERDAY, aad Is here TODAY, aad wlU be here FORZVER.
44-Bccautc It ltan«h against UNESCO In lo attempt Co rewrite our American hiatory.
4S-Becaute It it oppoted to a police state which lob* the Individual of hit rtghn.
46-Becaiae It does not believe that c<hjcatloBi It THE remedy for our political Ills.
47-Because It It opposed to say government professing to be firlendy to America, while at Che taaie time traJl^ with aay commu-
nist-dominated couKry
4B-Bccstae It Is oppoted to taxation without re present at i on.
49-Becai«e it it oppoted to the income tax laws as prvseotly existing.
SO-Becsuie It u oppoted lo Che World Health OganiiatioB and the Nsttoaal Mental Health Act anl all forms of pbychlatrtc educa-
tion of our children and cUixeat.
Exhibit 4. Policy statement furnished by Mr. Murray Martin.
26
2390 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. H^Continued
THE MEANING OF AMERICANISM
iBsrlcanliB 1a r llTlnc, (tyoaalc fore* fOTamlnc th* 11«»« uf o«r
paopla, *o u>s pauuUariy Uiw^ed with ttu oppoi-tuulV of UtIc^
iBdar k r«pa»«»Lt«tlT» rent of c^rtmaant, pivtaotad b7 Mm Boat
»aiiilT^ liuli laaiil o.' hiaan oa>M)uct cvar d«ri.c«d tqr ■«, th* OS-
tealaBlM ic. • foTB of contruUad LltMity in *lch t^a rlcbta
of tte ^aJl snd Um lATf* tJ^} prut^xrtod for tha (rjaWrt («ad u/
•Jl. IW prsetloal BnitlTktli^ prLnclpiM u-c cljorlj •Bueaiated Id
««• OBOjUUtnCH of lUUVQIOtaCC jnd li-. U>« PRE^JCU to (<iir 30(311-
rmm. it* rota^Uun l* th« mrialU dl^aigr and aorUi oT tb* la-
4iTiaMLi.
Tha aaaaBea of ^lOrlaaiilM la tpiriiiml. It bolda tiu:t ihvr* U a
■am GOO la tka isa«»rM, «»1 t^ut (7 vl-toa of thla lact, thara if
a ■oral pwpuai in tha offalra of askiad. Onr aorUl aciaaoa la f■<^-
dlcatad OB tba tnaU of Uia SHBOi oi Usa OSUff end U» TH OCMUHD-
■aiTB. Tba varr imti of AaarlaaB JorlaprudcBoa la t/x. prot«>otiflD
of iiMPBal llbarty ani prof>art7 frua tti) nooroactuBt of othora anl
froB HIIIII1HI Itaalf . It raaognlaac ac lU aMi«r, both tba aUl ot
tha ^mot e^ Um MvImm of tha Maaaa.
jMrlOLDlaa holda tkat ararr pjraoo haa as labarvot rl^ht to ttdak,
to aot, to ojipraaa (Hdalnna, to aaak radrja* a^olACt «x«ca, ead <d-
laiva bla puraoMlitr altlwvt faar. It |rl«aa aaob ..aancoa, Matter
rich or poor, itilta or talsok, Jtm or GantiJa, tan rl(0t to ohaUaafa
■roBi aad iinaaaaliB alttioul tl-a threat 01 ratadlatioa. It bmoj
ttet »nrr tearlona bn (iric tl • rljl.t U> Invwit I1 tivj
■all ct kla ec^try, ^ to r-^.^ iho o-sar^ta froa Ma libera (ad
kla ttolft. iB^rlaaolOB Iralur tfi-t U.r ; 1 i«ht.c Lr -irotastod for ail,
for tha prini(%ad.
ola, Oiv ct^rchoa, un clvli or^piunalUia* <x.d aur aagiif-
laaat IhHoBtferoyiad, - eU baop^^k r »mMt. or acia.'' abllgatlce to
n^fcira, aad a arlrlt cf brotba^tood tranaoLodlr^ tii.t of othar paofiLa
U taa <Bll7« •orU.
Bl^> koWMcr, If not a oao ttv air jat. It li(joaoa rlfbtful
ff^llf^tiwa 191m ladlvldaala aad frucp* to pluj «fe* gaaa of UtIoc
■Itfe a aeaaani far Iba aal/ara of tda nn— ailTj. atata, and oatloo.
iaaalaa la laaaalt^'a aaat (lorioua ajiparlaiBt la tha aclo
of U*U(. If thl< axparlaant afe9\a<1 fill, ctviUaatloc Itaalf al«bt
ba dooBad. Tba auraat (uaTf-utov. f jr coatlaaad auocaaa ia u p«raonil
altia«^1p, dadlcatoO Vo tha idjLln cmJ purpor«a u' thia (fact XS-
UHLIC. iaarloaaii* IP lan^Aixl'a raioinin,; hope ic- c Jaoaat rad
Jaat aorU!
iad la thli htiW Ji arlri.t a crisla, «. jn IMa loft^ barito^a ot
iaorioaaJarf la aarioitair U>ij'Utod of 1. rutlkiasa. Codlaaa Coaauaiat
omiatriracy cj aall c- op er axK^iuing 'o]r:.ra Str.ta, iMkloh oouid d»-
atror tiM laeaotlTa of our cilii «ir to cr jct« rad produca ca »«U aa
i^alr t^ will to dufaud our htrlU^*, °.jt jTurjr io^eJ .Laoric-m taowa
aablaaonad on hia ooBaoiaBoa tha l^nrui pl«)«a of tha bTLVa aoa 1M10
fir»t (aTB artleulatlon to tha lUodc of .aarlcanla in tha DBCLJU-
TicM of noraoMci.
•MD POR TEE SDPPOBT Of THIS
oicuJUTioM, wm A nm n-
UAHCB on THE PBDTSCTIOIl Of
DivniE p^viomcE, he wm-
JUXT PLEXE TO UCH OTKEK
con LIV':.J OOK POKMIK, /J*0
OCR sacr.v iCkor;
Exhibit 5. Policy statement furnished by Mr. Murray Martin.
27
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2391
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14— Continued
can furnish us, to see what type of thing you are using in your
training, and in your educational program?
A — I will be glad to furnish you with samples, a lot of which
is not our own. We use other Organizations' literature, and we learn
by it; but of course, we have literature of our own, and I can and
will send you some of this.
Q — Mr. Martin, do you have anything you want to add to your
testimony?
A — Nothing that I can think of.
Q — I would like to thank you for our Committee. This is the
end of the Staff Consultation. The time is 7:48 P. M.
28
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 5
2392 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14 — Continued
DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
POUTICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
(a) The duty of the political action committee is to study all politi-
cal activities in the jurisdiction of the Klavern.
(b) Keep the E.C. and the members of the Klavern informed on all
matters of political interest. This Includes State. National and
International.
(c) Be wf'M enough informed to recommend what political candidates
or issues to support or oppose and give recommendations to
Klavern on such.
(d) Keep a record of all political activities within the Jurisdiction
of the Klavern, and be prepared to present it or any part of It
to the Klavern upon request of K.C.
(e) Stay out of other Klavern Klanton unless otherwise agreed by
same.
(f) From time to time the members of this committee will l>e re-
quested to effectively contact their State Representatives and
State Senator, as well as their Democratic State Central Com-
mitteemen for one or more of the following purposes:
(1) To determine their position on a specific matter then be-
fore them.
(2) To obtain their support and cooperation in either passing,
amending or defeating that measure, or
(3) To learn and report the person or persons most able to In-
fluence them on such matters.
THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE WILL BE CONTACTED.
FREQUENTLY ON VERY SHORT NOTICE, FROM TIME TO TIME
TO ASSIST IN LINING UP THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, SENATORS
AND COMMITTEEMEN IN SUPPORT OF OUR POSITION.
EDUCATION COMMITTEE
(a) The Education Committee is responsible for the educating of
the public In all matters of interest within the jurisdiction of
the Klavern.
(b) Collect and distribute any literature that they can obtain that
will further the cause of our organization.
(c) Write letters to the public on political or other Issues of In-
terest within the Jurisdiction of the Klavern.
(d) Check txwks In the libraries of Schools, Churches, etc, and
check any books or literature that is exposed to the fxibllc to
assure that it does not contain communist influence material,
(or integration material)..
(e) Write letters of protest to individuals or ijrganizatlons that
(Mjbltcly advocate Integration, or communism.
(f) Write letters of appreciation to those who are working to fur-
ther Americanism, Segregation, and etc.
MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE:
(a) The membership committee keeps all records of the members,
(Not excluding the sect.) prospective members, and rejected
and/or suspended members.
(b) See that all material and literature in the possession of an ex-
pelled or suspended meml>er is returned to the unit.
Exhibit 6. Statement of functions of committes in Klan organizational atructure,
furnished by Mr. Murray Martin.
29
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2393
MuRRY Martin Exhibit No. 14— Continued
(c) Incourage regular attendance of members.
(d) Report on all members unable to attend regularly.
(e) Attempt to notify all members of special events, called meet-
ings, summons, etc.
BENEVOLENCE COMMITTEE:
(a) The Benevolence Committee is In charge of all charity activity
within the unit.
(b) Reports on all sick members, send flowers or cards to them
and asks for any assistance that the unit might provide for same.
(c) Reports on and asks for assistance for persons other than mem-
t>ers where the unit can be of assistance.
BUILDING COMMITTEE:
(a) The building committee is in charge of the construction and
maintenance of the Klavern.
(b) Asks for or appoints members to work on the building or the
grounds of same.
(c) Sees that the building is kept clean, the grass is cut, all neces-
sary repairs are made, and recommends changes or additions
to the building.
PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE:
(a) The Public Relations Committee is responsible for the relations
between the organization and the non-member public.
(b) Their duties are advisory only.
(c) Inspect all out going literature and determine if it will create a
good image.
(d) Advise on all activities of the unit that concern the public to as-
sure prestige and a good public image for the organization.
KLOKAN COMMITTEE:
(a) This committee is appointed by the Klokan of the Klavern and is
under the direct supervision of the Klokan.
(b) Takes no action other than that specifically ordered by the Klo-
kan.
THE WAY OF THE KLAVERN
The following should be given to each new member immediately
after the naturalization ceremony.
The newly made member be conducted to the Klocards' station by
the Kladd. The Klocard will then instruct the new members as follows:
1. Destroy application
2. Instruct the member in the use of the gavel.
Exhibit 7. Page 2 of Exhibit No. 6.
30
2394 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Call the next witness, Mr. Appell.
^Ir. Appell. Mr. Wilder.
The Chairmax, Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Wilder. I do.
TESTIMONY OF LLOYD GRADY WILDER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JAMES R. VENABLE
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, will you state your name ?
Mr. Wilder. Lloyd Grady Wilder.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Wilder. September 11, 1922, St. Landry, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. L-a-n-d-r-y ?
Mr. Wilder. That is right.
The Chairivian. That is the name of a parish. "What town?
Mr. Wilder. It is also the name entered on the birth certificate.
Long Pine.
Mr. Appell. Where do you currently reside ?
Mr. Wilder. Jena, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, are you appearing here this afternoon in
accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 27th day of October
at Third Street, Jena, Louisiana ?
Mr. Wilder. That is right, gir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, the subpena served upon you commands
you to bring with you and to produce documents set forth in the attach-
ment to the subpena which is made a part of the subpena. Paragraph
1 reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations, namely, Christian Constitu-
tional Crusaders, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you
or available to you as Secretary or other officer of the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan and/or Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
I ask you to produce those documents, Mr. Wilder.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
for the reason that it might intend to violate my constitutional rights
under the 1st amendment of the Constitution of the United States
guaranteeing freedom of speech, the right of people to peacefully
assemble and to associate together for the exchange of ideas in matters
of public concern, and further on the constitutional grounds of the
4th and 5th amendments, that producing such documents might intend
to incriminate me, and also on the 14th amendment, should I be com-
pelled to answer this question or to produce such documents, then I
would be denied my constitutional rights as provided under the 14th
amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2395
Mr, Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the bank records
of the Christian Constitutional Crusaders show that Mr. Wilder held
the position of secretary, I request that he be directed to produce the
documents called for.
The Chairman. Mr. Wilder, were you in the hearing room when
Mr. Swenson and Mr. Martin were on the stand today ?
Mr. Wilder. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You heard me explain to both Mr. Swenson and
Mr. Martin that this subpena requires you to produce these documents
and papers in your capacity as an official of the Klan organization to
which you belong. You heard me say that and you understand the
position of the committee.
Mr. Wilder. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I will repeat it to you. I am required to do that
by court decision.
We do not accept your invocation of the constitutional amendments
to which you refer because the subpena requires you to produce the
papers and documents outlined in the subpena in your official capacity
indicated. Therefore, I order and direct you to produce those docu-
ments.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Did he set forth his grounds ?
The Chairman. On the grounds previously stated. You mean on
the constitutional grounds previously stated ?
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, paragraph 2 of the subpena commands you
to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you in your capacity as
Secretary and/or member of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and/or
Christian Constitutional Crusaders which the "Constitution and Laws" of said
organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other oflBcer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those documents called for.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
for the same constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. For the reasons previously indicated, I order and
direct you to produce those documents.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce the documents on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, paragraph 3 calls for you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June 30,
1965, filed by you as Secretary of the Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
on the same constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. For the reasons that I stated previously, I now
order and direct you to produce those documents.
2396 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLaN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, the subpena calls, under paragraph 4, for
you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Tax Return," for tlie calendar years 1958 through 1964, filed
by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, Internal
Revenue Service.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce those documents
on the constitutional grounds that it might tend to incriminate me, on
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, will you set forth briefly your educational
background ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Please talk louder.
Mr. Appell. Will you briefly set forth your occupational back-
ground ?
Mr. Wilder. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you principally engaged in the heating and air-
conditioning business in Jena, Louisiana ?
Mr. Wilder. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, the committee's investigation establishes
that through the secretary, whether it be the klavern or the realm,
paper of the Klan flows. A Klavern making a report to the realm
makes its report through the realm secretary. I put it to you as a
fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you are the secre-
tary of the organization known as the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, which organization used as a cover name the Christian
Constitutional Crusaders.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. During the time that Royal V. Young was the Im-
perial Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the
period ending in early 1964, Mr. Young testified that you held the
position of secretary-treasurer. Was Mr. Young's testimony factual ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decine to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. 1 hand you an envelope containing three checks drawn
by the Louisiana Rifle Association against their account at the Louisi-
ana Rank and Trust Company, payable to L. G. Wilder, Grady
Wilder, or Mr. L. G. Wilder. I will ask you the purpose for which
those checks were drawn.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds i)reviously stated.
(Checks marked "Lloyd Wilder Exhibit No. 1." One of said checks
follows; balance retained in committee files.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2397
Lloyd Wilder Exhibit No. 1
■i v
«ia*rKHHnr. I.A. April 29 i»63 j^^^jj
H ■"■■
I
«
<i»4t«01i%l.i{
Mr. Appell. With Mr. Young being deposed as the Imperial
Dragon and Mr. Swenson being deposed from his office, did you know
Mr. Murry H. Martin to be the next Grand Dragon of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you the signature card for the account in the
name of the Christian Constitutional Crusaders at the Ouachita Na-
tional Bank, in Monroe, Louisiana, and put it to you as a fact, and
ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that this signature card shows the
president of the organization to be M. H. Martin, the secretary to be
L. G. Wilder, and the treasurer to be Henry I. Bayles.
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 4." See
p. 2367.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, how many Klan organizations, to your
knowledge, are existing in the State of Louisiana?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In the latter part of 1964 and early 1965, did dissension
grow within the ranks of the organization headed by Mr. Martin so
that certain Klaverns and leaders defected from your organization and
started new Klan gt'oups ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did Houston P. Morris, grand kleagle of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under Mr. Martin, break away and
take his following with him and form the Original Ku Klux Klan of
America, Incorporated ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
2398 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Did a group of Klansmen in the Sixth Congressional
District at the same time break away from the leadership of Mr. Mar-
tin and go as an independent Klan organization sometimes known as
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Louisiana?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did Henry I. Bayles, who was the treasurer of the
organization at the same time that you were the secretary, break with
the organization and is he now with the United Klans of America,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, a review of deposit slips filed or appended
to deposits to the account of the Christian Constitutional Crusaders
at the Ouachita National Bank, in Monroe, Louisiana, contains a list
of the following individuals. I hand you a list and I put it to you
as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that these people
were members of your Klan organization.
The Chairman. The reporter will make note of the fact to insert at
the points where the previous witnesses and this witness testified with
reference to documents, that those documents should be included in
the printed record at those respective points.
Mr. Wilder. I respectfully refuse to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Lloyd Wilder Exhibit No. 2" follows:)
Lloyd Wilder Exhibit No. 2
Subject : Christian Constitutional Crusaders
Bank Account,
The Ouachita National Bank
Monroe, Louisiana
(Deposit slips from January 31, 1964, to October 19, 1964)
Following is a list of individuals (only those positively deciphered) listed on
the deposit slips for Christian Constitutional Crusaders bank account :
Marvin C. Brister L. D. Starns
Dale Blaekman H. W. Nickens
Norman D. McFerran Clarence Boykin
A. J. Kidd Cecil Cliburn
Carl J. Teal Melvin Jackson
Earnest Martin J. D. Baker »
C. C. Charles Paul Loft
L. G. Wilder C. Tigner
Eddie J. Moore R. C. Colvin
Ed Leggett Tilman C. Rinehart
W. Jenkins Harold E. Gordon
Harold Smith Mrs. T. R. King
W. J. Williams W. R. Watson
Gary Core Eric Peterson
Bobby Lang James Manning
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2399
Lloyd Welder Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
E. B. Smith J. A. McGee
R. S. Wright Frank Cooper
Frank Cooper J. H. Droddy
Gene Halford W. J. Hester
Edward H. Browning Anthony V. Brown
Gerald Myers Joseph S. Reeves
Aubrey Gerald Myers Alex J. Langer, Jr.
James R. Dunaway John R. Smith
E. L. Murray Jimmie N. Atkins
C. R. Watts James L. Collins
Tommie Thompson C. R. Moore
Mrs. Hattie J. Atkinson Hardy J. Penton
L. R. Rinehart Phillip Harrell
Donald Varnado Bert N. Stafford
Browning Grocery Milton H. Ballard
Donald Ray Martin Don Hudson
James W. Ford Angus Rogers
Donnie Mann (608 Wat- Ronald Byrd
son)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, did the Little Kiver Rod and Gun Club
which maintained a banking account at the Guaranty Bank and Trust
Company, Alexandria, Louisiana, make checks payable to you as
secretary for their dues and the realm's share of the initiation fee col-
lected from members of that Klavern ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilder, would you be willing to explain to the
committee the purposes and functions of the wrecking crew which
is provided for by the constitution of the Original Knights of the Ku
KluxKlan?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowdedge of any act of violence
carried out by members of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, did the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan ever carry out any of its programs or objectives with-
out the use of intimidation or violence ?
Mr. Wilder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this
witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Henry I. Bayles.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Bayles. I do.
2400 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
TESTIMONY OF HENRY I. BAYLES
Mr, Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Bayles. Henry I. Bayles.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Bayles. Xovember 19, 1932, in West ^Monroe, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Bayles. No.
Mr. Appell. Do you desire counsel ?
Mr. Bayles. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Have you had the advice of counsel ?
Mr. Bayles. Yes,
Mr. Appell. Is Mr. Chalmers your counsel ?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for I
feel the answer might incriminate me in violation of my rights as
guaranteed me by amendments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution of
the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Bayles, are you appearing before the committee
this afternoon in accordance with a subpena served upon you ?
The Chairman. Before you ask that question, Mr. Bayles, you are
appearing here without counsel. You were asked whether you wanted
counsel. You said you did not. I think I should tell you that if
you want it, you have a right to invoke the fifth amendment in your
own way and within your own right. I just want to let you know
that. We respect your invocation in that respect in the same way
and to the same extent as though you had a lawyer.
You understand what I am saying? I am not asking you a ques-
tion. I am just telling you that.
Mr. Bayles. I understand.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Bayles, are you appearing before the committee
this afternoon in accordance wi<^h a subpena served upon you on the
26th day of October 1965, at 2006 DeSiard Street, Monroe, Louisiana?
Mr. Bayles. November 15.
Mr. Appell. That is the date ?
Mr. Bayles. That I was to appear.
Mr. Appell, You were served on October 26 by the United States
marshal ?
Mr. Bayles. Yes.
Mr. Appell. ITnder the terms of that subpena, you were commanded
to bring with you and produce documents set forth in an attachment
that was made a part of the subpena :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and affiliatetl organizations, namely, the Christian
Constitutional Crusaders, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained
by you or available to you as Treasurer and/or member of Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan and/or the Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2401
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Bayles. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena
dated November 15, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to
do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guar-
anteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution of the
United States of America.
Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all
records as requested by this committee under subpena dated Novem-
ber 15, 1965, for the information is not relevant and germane to the
subject under investigation and does not aid the Congress in the con-
sideration of valid or remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within
the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress by House Resolution 8, adopted Jan-
uary 4, 1965.
The Chairman. That is a good one.
Mr. Appell. I ask that the witness be directed to produce the docu-
ments called for.
The Chairman. You were in the hearing room when I instructed
the previous witnesses concerning the production of records under
subpenas served on them, and on you, in a representative capacity.
Were you in the room at that time ?
Mr. Bayles. Yes.
The Chairman. I am not
Mr. Bayles. Yes.
The Chairman. You appear to be a very bright young man, and I
suppose you understand, or understood what I said, that is, that since
this subpena calls for you to produce documents to this committee in
a representative capacity, I do not accept your invocation.
Do you understand what I am saying?
For that reason, and I am sure you follow me, I direct you to produce
the documents-
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
November 15, 1965, because I honestly feel it would tend to incriminate
my rights contained in amendments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution
of the United States.
I decline to deliver to the committee all records requested by the
committee under subpena dated November 15, 1965, for that informa-
tion is not relevant and germane to the said investigation and the
same would not aid the Congress in the consideration of any valid
remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that
authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the
89th Congress by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
The Chairman. Proceed.
2402 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appeli.. Mr. Bayles, I might advise you, if you have discussed
with counsel you might know, that in the future, with respect to the
productio'^ of documents, the committee will accept all of those reasons
in an answer which would encompass "for the reasons previously
stated," which would not require you to repeat all the language each
time.
The Chairman. Do you understand that ?
Mr. Bayles. Yes.
The Chairman. What he is trying to tell you is, if you want to you
may, from here on, if that is to be your course of action, say, "I decline
to answer the questions on the grounds previously stated."
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity
as Treasurer, past or present, of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
and/or Christian Constitutional Crusaders which the "Constitution and Laws"
of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any
other oflScer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody
or control.
I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 2.
Mr. Bayles. I refuse to deliver to the committee any and all docu-
ments demanded for the reasons previously stated.
The Chairman. And for the reasons I stated, I order you to pro-
duce the documents.
Mr. Bayles. For the constitutional reasons previously stated, I de-
cline to do so.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 3 calls for you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service. Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June
30, 1965, filed by you as Treasurer of Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee for the constitution-
al reasons previously stated.
The Chairman. And for the reasons I previously stated, I order
and direct you to produce them.
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents demanded by the committee for the constitutional
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell, Paragraph 4 calls for you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, In-
ternal Revenue Service.
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee for the constitution-
al reasons previously stated.
ACTWITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2403
Mr. Appell. Mr. Bayles, where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might incriminate my rights as
guaranteed by amendments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you reside at 201 Elmwood Drive, Monroe, Louisiana.
Mr. Bayles. I refuse to answer on the grounds my answer might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. Appell. Where are you currently employed ?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question because
I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me as guar-
anteed to me by amenclments 5, 4, 1, and 14 of the Constitution of the
United States.
The Chairman. Mr. Bayles, if you wish to, you may say in answer
to following questions you refuse to answer the questions on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you are employed by the Gregg Implement Company,
2006 DeSiard Street, Monroe, Louisiana.
Mr. Bayles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you have held the position of Grand Dragon, great titan,
and treasurer.
Mr. Bayles. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Bayles, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that during the days when the Original
Knights were under the leadership of Mr. Young and Mr. Swenson,
that it used as a cover name the Louisiana Rifle Association.
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason previously given.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that you signed a signature card on account of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan on February 3, 1964, at the
Ouachita National Bank of Monroe, Louisiana, in the name of the
Christian Constitutional Cmsaders? (See Murry Martin Exhibit
No. 4, p. 2367.)
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
constitutional reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Bayles, as the treasurer of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan, you were responsible for cosigning checks drawn
against the account maintained in its banking institutions. Can you
tell the committee the purpose for which checks were drawn to your-
2404 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
self, L. G. Wilder, Robert Fuller, Houston P. Morris, and Murry
Martin ?
Mr. Bayles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the constitutional reasons given previously.
Mr. Appell. Under the constitution and laws of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Louisiana, there is provision
for the creation within Klaverns of a body known as the wrecking
crew. Can you tell the committee the purpose and function of the
wrecking crew ?
Mr. Bayles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the constitutional reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever serve as a member of a wrecking crew?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. Have you, as a Klansman, ever engaged in active
violence ?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
constitutional reasons previously given.
Mr. Appei,l. Early in 1965, Mr. Houston P. Morris broke from the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and formed the Original Ku
Klux Klan of America, Inc.
Did you join with him in this organization ?
Mr. Bayles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the constitutional reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. In the summer of 1965, the bulk of its membership
disbanded from the Original Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., and
became affiliated with the United Klans of America, Inc., under the
Realm of Ix)uisiana under the Imperial Wizard, Robert Shelton, Tus-
caloosa, Alabama. Are you one of the membei's that took that coui^se
of action?
Mr. Bayles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
constitutional reasons previously given.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions of this witness.
The Chairman. The witness may be excused.
The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the subcommittee recessed and recon-
vened at 4 :57 p.m. with the following subcommittee membei's : Rep-
resentatives Willis, Weltner, and Buchanan, present at time of recess
and when hearing resumed.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Counsel will call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. I would like, Mr. Chairman, to call Billy Skipper.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Skipper. I do.
The Chairman. Proceed.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2405
TESTIMONY OF BILLY SKIPPER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JAMES R. VENABLE
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Skipper?
Mr. Skipper. Billy Skipper.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Skipper. In Baskin, New Orleans, 1933.
Mr. Appell. What month and day of 1933 ?
Mr. Skipper. April 22.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee with counsel ?
Mr. Skipper. Sir?
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing with coimsel ?
Mr. Skipper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please state his name for the record ?
Mr. Venable. James R. Venable, attorney, Atlanta, Georgia.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, are you appearmg before the committee
in accordance with a subpena served upon you by United States mar-
shal on the 30th day of October 1965 ?
Mr. Skipper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, the subpena served upon you has an
attachment which is made part of the subpena, and it directs you to
produce for the committee those documents described in two para-
graphs.
Paragraph 1 :
AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations, in your possession, custody
or control, or maintained by you or available to you as Klan Bureau Investigator
and/or member of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Skipper. Sir, I decline to produce those documents on the con-
stitutional grounds of the 4th amendment of the Constitution — the
■4th, 5th, and 14th amendments.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce the documents called for in paragraph 1.
The Chairman. Mr. Skipper, you were in the audience, were you
not, when I explained to the previous witnesses what this subpena
called for, that is, that they called on you to produce documents which
you hold in a representative capacity? You understand that?
Mr. Skipper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. We do not accept your right to invoke the consti-
tutional amendments you outlined, as I previously stated. Therefore
I direct you to answer this question.
Mr. Skipper. I decline to produce these documents and records on
f he grounds previously stated.
2406 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, paragraph 2 calls for the production of:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past Klan Bureau Investigator and/or member of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organi-
zation authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of
said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I direct that you produce those documents.
Mr. Skipper. I decline to produce those documents on the grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. And for the reasons you previously stated you
decline to produce them ?
Mr. Skipper. For the reasons I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, would you give the committee your edu-
cational background ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you have had a seventh-grade grammar school edu-
cation.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline, on the constitutional grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Wliat is your employment background from the year
1960?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you are presently self-employed as a plumbing contrac-
tor.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, have you had any military service?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional gi-ounds previously stated.
Mr. AppELii. 1 put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm to deny
the fact, that you served in the United States Army from May 5, 1953,
to April 21, 1955, and transferred into the United States Army Re-
serve to complete your military obligation and were in the Reserve
from April 1955 to June 1961.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. While a member on active duty in the United States
Army were you ever court-martialed ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2407
Mr. Appell. I put it to you
The Chairman. One moment, please.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that in March of' 1965 you attended a meeting
of four factions of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, meet-
ing held in Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully
Mr. Appell. — for the purpose of attempting to reunite these groups
under one head.
Mv. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you were the chief of the Klan Bureau of
Investigation for the Sixth Congressional District of Louisiana of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
]Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, under the constitution of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana it states that no one will
carry a gun inside the state or province meeting except those ap-
pointed by the "Chief KBI or Province KBI." Would you tell us the
functions of the province KBI ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. The word "province" in this instance as I recall
it, Mr, Appell, encompasses a congressional district. Is that right?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir, and in the case of Mr. Skipper it is the Sixth
Congressional District.
Mr. Skipper, have you received from the Federal Communications
Commission authority to operate a Class D citizens band radio?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, I will show you a copy of an application
sigiied Billy Skipper, dated August 21, 1964, application for a Class D
citizens band license. I wish to read from that application language
which appears on the reverse side. It reads:
On the application I mailed the 15 transmitters I requested was a mistake
in filling out the application. I only need 10 because I am self-employed in
Plumbing & Heating. Thank you. Billy Skipper.
I ask you to look at this and ask you whether this is a true copy of
the application you executed and filed with the Federal Communica-
tions Commission.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3-
2408
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 1
mc roim w
UN1TCD stahs of AUrRIC*
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHIftCTON. D.C. WM
TOHM •PPfiOVED
■UO&CT MjRCAtJ NO. UHtlLLIO
APPLICATION FOR CLASS B, C, OR D STATION LICCrt;e.>4N TBE "l}/?', ^
OO NOT WRITE IS THIS BLOCK ^
F f r
li^
CITIZENS RADIO SERVICE 'r{y
1. Applicillnr/tmJ'Us, Ap/JtSnlMrL'
2. Compli-lo ilrQVnfwriIrr nr^iiil f^'-aUy;^
30287
:2-AUG2764
[U-VtAMiiNr.inN. p. c.
mudl tf^^fWi
orwFrc j^onft* 100.
rffi^of Blication to Frdcr*! Com-
munifBtionYjinjn mission, G«l>^lm»K. P«., M^I^'J C
CASH Mal^-fWw f>r monry nrd. r pB>/it.:?vy\ E. jW»l ,C'>mmunn-»tinom
Cnmmiwon ^^'[^"^n 19. Volume VI aj Kjjf '"'«■*» dMrrtrtinb i-hrthH
• tf>e j* required
^
^^.^^fEW
NAME OF APPLICANT
euSiNtiS r.AK| ,0« LAST NAME. IF AN lhOIVltKj«l»
^/</jPA-n> l9/,.^}.,A/p ^/Jul/Vo
ir AN INDIVIDUAL OPERATING UNDER A TRADE NAME GIVE INDIVIDUAL
NAME, OR IF PARTNERSHIP, LIST NAMES OF PARTNERS (Do niX rtptal
any namt vted in iUm I)
JlMJ^
ej^
FIRST NAMES
MsA
MAILING ADDRESS
NUMBER AND StRCa
IP CODE I CbuWr OR tQUIVAttNT SUBOIvTslON
I C0UH7V OR eQUIVAANT SUBDIvTsK
CLASSIFICATION OF APPLICANT (S« ifwirurj ion*)
(3^0
iNOiyipUAL
■g'
n
ASSOCIATION
Dl
I I PARTNEHUtir Q CORfOHATlOM Q] OTHER fSptti/f):
CLASS OF STATION (CAnt oi.l» inu)
D'
D-
B^"
IS THIS APPLICATION TO MODIFY OR RENEW AN EXISTING STATION LICENSE*
[ I VC» (Cit< eaU •t"Bii);
B^
00 YOU NOW HOLD ANY STATION LICENSE OTHER THAN THAT COVtRtO BV ITEM 6,
Of THE SAME CLASS AS THAT REQUESTED BT THIS APPLICATION?
D'
^
TOTAL NUMBER Of TRANSMITTERS TO eC AUTHORIZED UNDfR REQUEST EJMTAT ION
DOES EACH TRANSMITTER TO BE OPERATED APPEAR ON THE COMMIS
SION S "RADIO EQUIPMENT LIST PART C OR, IF FOR CLASS C OR
CLASS 0 STATIONS. IS IT CRYSTAL CONTROLLED? (1/ "«. aUoek
detaiUd dttcription: att nbparl C o/ Part 19)
A WILL APPLICANT OWN ALL THE RADIO EQUIPMENT? (// HO. aiuwrr
D and C btlow)
NAME OF OWNER
IS THE APPLICANT A PARTT TO A WRITTEN ICASEOR OTHER AGREEMENT UNDER
WHICH THE CWNERSMIP OR CONTROL MIlL BE E VERCIStD IN THE SAME MAN
NEB AS IF THE EQUIPMENT WERE OWNED BT THE APPLICANT?
HAS APPLICANT BEAD AND UNDERSTOOD THE PROVISIONS OF PART 19
SUBPART D DEALING WITH PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHICH
THIS CLASS OF STATION MAY BE USED'
WILL THE USE OF THE STATION CONFORM IN ALL RESPECTS WITH THE
PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS AS SET FORTH IN PART 19. SUBPART 0?
WILL THE STATION BE OPfRATED BY ANY PERSON OTHfR THAN THE
APPLICANT MEMBERS OF HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR HIS EMPLOYEES'
{If urn, attach a ifparatr thrft linttng tht namf» and relalionship of all
aucn p€Tiont and eiee a detaxUd reiuon for tAtir optralion of your
atation)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP. ARE VOO OH ANY
OF THE PARTNERS AN ALIEN'
IS APPLICANT THE REPRESENTATIVE Of ANY ALIEN OR ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT? (// ytB. explain fuUy)
WITHIN 10 YEARS PREVIOUS TO THE DATE OF THIS APPLICATION HAS
THE APPLICANT OR ANY PARTY TO THIS APPLICATION BEEN CONVICTED
IN A FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL COURT OF ANY CRIME FOR WHICH THE
PENALTY IMPOSED WAS A FINE OF i500 OR MORE OR AN IMPRISONMENT
OF 6 MONTHS OR MORE' fSre inntrurlront. If yet.allach a arparalt
nhetl (riving drtaiU of eath tuch contichon)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP ARE YOU OH ANY
PARTNER LESS THAN IB YEARS OF AGE (LESS THAN IJ YEARS OF AGE IF
FOR CLASS C STATION LICENSE)?
cy'
7;^
L^
I
^A
Vi
IF THE PRINCIPAL LOCATION WHERE THE STATION WILL BE
USED IS DIFFERENT FROM THE MAILING ADDRESS (ITEM 3).
GIVE THAT LOCATION. (DO NOT GIVE FOST OFFICE BOX OR
RFD NO^
NUMKR AND STREtT
DO NOT"
SCREENING
K^ifra IN
(Ty d n
^ASa^^
tIGH AND DATE THE APPLICATION ON REVERSE SIDE
V
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
2409
Billy Skipper Exhibit No. I — Continued
19 IF APPLICANT IS A NONGOVERNMENTAL
CORPORATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
IS CORPORVTiON ORGANIZED UNDeR LAWS OF ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT?
IS ANY OFFICER OR DIRECTOR Of THE CORPORATION AN ALIEN?
IS MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE CAPiTAL STOCK EITHER OWNED OF
RECORD OR MAY tr BE VOTED BY ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES
OR BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT OR REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF OR BY
ANY CORPORATION ORGANIZED UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN
COUNTRY?
IS APPLICANT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY OTHER
CORPORATION) (// yta, antwtT iirniJ E Ihrou0A K btlow)
GIVE NAME AND ADDRESS OF CONTROLLING CORPORATION
UNDER THE LAWS OF WHAT STATE OR COUNTRY IS THE CONTROLLING
CORPORATION ORGANIZtDT
IS MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK OF CONTROLLING
CORPORATION EITHER OWNED OF RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY
ALIENS OR THEIR HtPRESENTATIvtS OH Bit A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
OR REPRESENTATUE THEREOF OR BY ANY CORPORATION QRGANItED
UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY! (// yet, gyvt dttaxU)
IS ANY OFFICER OR MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE DIRECTORS OF
THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION AN ALIEN? (// ye; anawtr ilfm»
7 arid J btlow)
TOTAL NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN CONTROLLING CORPORATION
LIST ALL OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS WHO ARE ALIENS IN CONTROLLING
CORPORATION AND GIVE BRIEF BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENT FOR ^CH
ALIEN
IS THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION IN TuRN CONTROLLED
BY OTHER COMPANIES? {If yet, attack tn/ormatxon fur each I — I ,.
of Ihete controtlino companies covering the informalxon re- l_J
qutiled tfi lUmt £' through J, above)
D'
iO IF APPLICANT IS AN UNINCORPORATED
SSOCtATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
f ANY OFFICER OR DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION AN ALIEN?
ARE MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIA
TIOH ALIENS OR REPRESENTATIVES OF ALIENS FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
OR REPRESENTATIVES THEREOF OR CORPORATIONS ORGANIZED UNDER
THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY?
IS THE ASSOCIATION DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY
OTHER ORGANIZATION? (// ytt. give dtlatled explunatton)
USE THIS SPACE FOR ANr ADOIIJONAL INfORMAIlQN OR REMARKS
A<~^
{^A^ s^-P^.^Jlyl^
~m-^^j>ritM<^
^iJ^iil^^
Signature
I>ato
WILLFUL FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS FORM ARE PUN-
ISHABLE BY FINE AND IMPRISONMENT. U.S. CODE, TITLE 18,
SECTION 1001.
ALL THC STATEMENTS MADE IN THE APPLICATION AND ATTACHED EXHIBITS ARE CONSIDERED MATERIAL REPRESENTATIONS, AND ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE
A MATERIAL PART HEREOF AND ARE INCORPORATED HEREIN AS ir SET OUT IN FULL IN THE APPLICATION.
I CERTIFY THAT:
The applicant has (or has ordered from the Government Printing Office) a current copy of Part 19 of the Commission's rules governing
the Citizens Radio Service:
The applicant waives any claim to the use of any particular frequency or of the ether as against the regulatory power of the United
States because of the previous use of the same, whether by license or otherwise,
The applicant accepts full responsibility for the operation of. and will retain control of any citizens radio station licensed to him pursuant
to this application ;
The station will be operated in full accordance with the applicable law and the current rules of the Federal Communications Commission ,
The said station will not be used for any purpose contrary to Federal. State or local law;
The applicant will have unlimited access to the radio equipment and effective measures will be taken to prevent its use by unautlionzed
persons ; and
The statements in this application are true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and are made in good faith.
DO NOT OPERATE UNTIL VOU HAVE
VOUR OWN LICCNSEi
USE OF ANY CALL SIGN NOT VOUR
OWN IS PROHIBITED.
ilCMATUHE. t<^,y .^.^[^^
{Chmck appro^rj^ia bot below/
f-j/ INDIVIDUAL I 1 MtMBER OF
I/) APPLICANT I I APPLICANT
BATE SIGNED!
PARTNERSHIP
□ OFFICER OF APPLICANT I 1 OFFICKL OF
CORPORATION OR GOVERNMENTAL
ASSOCIATION
U.5 GOVERNMENT PRINTING Of net IMJ-O-^M-^OI
Reprinted by E. F. Johnion Company
2410 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. I would like to ask you, Mr. Skipper, whether or not
these 10 transmitters were requested for use in your plumbing and
heatinfij business or for use of the Ori^nal Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the transmitters were used on Klan business.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, on October 6, 1964, Howard M. Lee, who
possessed an Alcoholic Tax Unit License to sell firearms, was arrested
by the Treasury Department. He was charged with failing to keep
adequate records for rifles which he had obtained from several whole-
salers and which he had distributed throughout the Bogalusa area,
most of them to members of the Klan.
Howard Lee, according to the committee's investigation and accord-
ing to an interview with Howard Lee in the Federal penitentiary in
Texarkana, Texas, was the exalted cyclops of the Mitch Community
Unit of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Mitch Com-
munity being located in Bogalusa.
Did you know Howard M. Lee to be the exalted cyclops of the unit?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did Howard M. Lee visit with you at your residence
in connection with Klan business?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I show you a sketch, a hand-drawn sketch, of how a
person would outline the route which he would travel to get to your
home. I ask you if this is factual ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
con'^titutional grounds previouslv stated.
(Map sketch marked "Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 2" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Howard Lee drew that sketch in order to locate your
residence. Did Howard Lee meet with you at your residence and dis-
cuss the business of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appfxi.. Howard Lee had in his possession a list containing
names of people. I hand you this list in his hand and ask you if you
knew those persons to be members of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional ground-^ nrpviouslv stated.
(Document marked "Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 3" follows:)
ACTIVITIES OF RU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2411
Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 3
/-^
Huston l{kJii>f\A/ J-
[OWN sne/v/s^
Boots Qf /fj^i.]) ^^
fi^D Bu /^ o j^ rr '^""'^
Muni Pof'e "^
A^-;
sWH*-
!#,
L^'
■^^
2412
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appeli,. Did you purchase pistols or rifles from Howard M.
Lee?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. The records obtained by the Treasury Department
from Howard Lee — and by the way, Mr. Chairman, I think the record
should reflect that Howard Lee purcliased for sale some 684 rifles and
his records showed disposition of the rifles by him except in the case
of 184. It was the failure to keep records of these that he was later
indicted, tried, and sentenced to 3 years for, which he is now serving
in the Federal penitentiary in Texarkana, Texas.
In 1964 he sold Billy Skipper, Denham Springs, Louisiana, one .303
Jungle carbine number MKF937A239, price $32.50.
Did you purchase that rifle from Mr, Lee ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Entry under the same date, sold to Billy Skipper,
Denham Springs, Louisiana, one 30 calibre U.S. Ml. carbine, E-563,
amount $57.50. I show you this entry which contains a signature,
Billy Skipper, and ask you if you purchased the rifle and if that is
your signature.
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Excerpt from Howard Lee's records marked "Billy Skipper Ex-
hibit No. 4" follows :)
Billy Skipper Exhibit No. 4
>ifi?«j(f
Qujt/^
~>-Z?
■N
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2413
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, when interviewed by agents of the
Treasury Department did you admit that you had purchased from
Mr. Lee one of the carbines that I have described to you ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. "What weapons do you own other than those that I
have described to you ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In April 1965, following an argument, did you pull
a gun on a Denham Springs police officer?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Skipper, in May of 1964, the Klan in Bogalusa,
a part of the Sixth Congressional District, held a rally in which the
Klansmen were masked in public in violation of Louisiana State law.
Do you possess any knowledge of whether assurances were received by
the Klan that they would not be prosecuted for violating the State
law?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As chief of the KBI in 1964 and early 1965, did cross-
burning, throwing of tacks on people's lawns, threatening telephone
calls, come under the jurisdiction of the KBI?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you personally engage in any of these acts ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask of
this witness.
The Chairman. Mr. Skipper, is it not a fact that the application
you filed with the Federal Communications Commission for a citizens
band radio license was applied for by you for use by you not only as
a member and official of the Klan group to which you belong, but
also in your capacity as a member of the Klan Bureau of
Investigation ?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Is it not a fact that the gun, or guns, you pur-
chased from Mr. Lee were so purchased by you for use bv you in
your capacity as a member of the Klan Bureau of Investigation in the
Sixth Congressional District, which is the area that you represent?
Mr. Skipper. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. I have no questions.
Mr. Buchanan. I have no questions.
The Chairman. The documents we have just examined the witness
on will be inserted in the record at the points where Mr. Appell
previously questioned the witness.
Mr. Appell now has an additional question to ask and an additional
document to offer in evidence.
2414 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that
the sketch which I exhibited to the witness, directions to his residence,
was drawn by Howard M. Lee, the exalted cyclops of the Mitch Com-
munity Unit of the United Klans of America.
The Chairman. That drawing will be a part of the record.
Is that all ?
Mr. Appell. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock
tomorrow morning.
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Weltner,
and Buchanan.)
(Whereupon, at 5:20 p.m., Tuesday, January 4, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, January 5, 1966.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 5, 1966
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D.G.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
The subcommitt'ee met, pursuant to recess, as 10 a.m. in the Caucus
Room, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Edwin
E. Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman ; Joe R. Pool, of Texas ; Charles L. Weltner, of
Georgia ; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio ; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama. )
Subcommittee members present : Representatives Willis, Pool, Welt-
ner, and Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hite, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator, and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Mr. Manuel, will you call the first witness.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this time
Mr. Ralph Blumberg.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
Do your solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Blumberg. I do.
TESTIMONY OF RALPH BLTJMBERG
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, would you please state your full name
for the record ?
Mr. Blumberg. Ralph Blumberg.
Mr. Manuel. And when and where were you born, Mr. Blumberg ?
Mr. Blumberg. February 27, 1921, Cotton Plant, Arkansas.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please give the committee a brief resume
of your educational background ?
Mr. Blumberg. I completed 2 years at the University of Missouri.
2415
2416 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. And would you please frive the committee a resume
of your career in the Armed Forces of the United States ?
Mr. Blumberg. I served a little over 4 years in the United States
Coast Guard.
Mr. Manuel. What were the years of your service ?
Mr. Blumberg. From 1941 to 1945.
Mr. Manuel. Would you p;ive the committee a brief resume of your
business and professional background ?
Mr. Blumberg. I have been in broadcasting since 1945.
Mr. Manuel. Were you ever a resident of Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
The Chairman. A little louder.
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. I went to Bogalusa in July 1961.
Mr. Manuel. And what did you do in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. We purchased Radio Station WBOX, and I oper-
ated it as an owner and operator of the station.
Mr. Manuel. That was in July 1961 ; is that correct, sir?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. During that period of time, July 1961 and shortly
thereafter, would you inform the committee as to your opinion as a
private citizen of the racial situation which existed at that time in
Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. As far as I knew, from 1961, the next 3 or 4 years,
I knew of no racial tension or any racial problems. Wliether they
existed or not is another question, but I knew of none of this.
Mr. Manuel. Prior to approximately May of 1964, were you aware
as a private citizen of the existence of a Ku Klux Klan organization
in the area of Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Blumberg. I had heard some rumors to that effect, but they
were merely rumors. I really couldn't say that I definitely knew
factually, because I didn't.
Mr. Manuel. When did you first become aware of such a group ?
Mr. Blumberg. When they held an open rally in the city of Boga-
lusa in May of 1964. It was an open rally with all the regalia, hooded
sheets and 20-foot crosses, this kind of thing.
The Chairman. Were they masked ? Were any of them masked ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. I didn't attend that rally. This is what was
told to me.
The Chairman. From the reports and so on, it was a meeting where
Klansmen appeared in hooded sheets or regalia ?
Mr. Blumberg. Regalia.
Mr. Manuel. During that time. May of 1964, were there any racial
demonstrations in Bogalusa at that time ?
Mr. Blumberg. No, not that I know of.
Mr. Manuel. As a private citizen did you detect any racial tension
at that time ?
Mr. Blumberg. No. I have to be honest, as a private citizen I knew
of no racial tension whatsoever or of any activity at that time.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, in October of 1964 did you, with
others, meet in order to form an organization to better deal with racial
problems in the Bogalusa area ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. In October of 1964 I was invited to the home
of an attorney in Bogalusa, Mr. Bascom Talley, who had been ap-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 2417
pointed a Community Relations ^ official for Bogalusa, and when I ar-
rived at his home I found a group of other citizens, including two men
from Community Relations. I think at that time it was headed by
former Governor LeRoy Collins. We were told they felt there was
possible trouble coming to Bogalusa with the racial question and they
wanted a group of citizens to get together and bring a speaker into
Bogalusa in order to help Bogalusa avoid the racial pitfalls some of
the other communities in the South had already experienced.
The Chairman. By "they" you mean former Governor Collins?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. From the period May 1964 until your initial meeting
with this group which you have just described in October of 1964, did
you as a private citizen detect Klan activities, recruitings, or rallies or
anything of that sort in the Bogalusa area ?
Mr. Blumberg. What period was that ?
Mr. Manuel. From May 1964, when you told the committee there
was an open rally in Bogalusa, until October 1964 when you met with
this group ?
Mr. Blumberg. I had heard rumors of recruitment. I am not sure
there were any open Klan activities. There may have been a few
cross-burnings in this period. As a matter of fact, I think it was the
editor of the newspaper, Lou Major, who had cross-burnings on his
lawn at that time.
Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Major one of the men who comprised the
group you met with in October, 1964 ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, he was.
Mr. Manuel. Who were the other members of that group ?
Mr. Blumberg. Reverend Jerry Chance, minister of the Main Street
Baptist Church ; Reverend Paul Gillespie, minister of the Memorial
Baptist Church ; Reverend Bruce Shepherd, minister of the St. Mat-
thew's Episcopal Church; Lou Major, editor of the Bogalusa News;
and Bascom Talley, an attorney and Community Relations representa-
tive.
The Chairman. Mr. Talley was then, or before or since, an official
of the Louisiana Bar Association ; was he not?
Mr. Blumberg. He was past president of the Louisiana Bar Asso-
ciation. I think he was president 2 years ago or perhaps 1 year ago.
And myself. We were the six.
Mr. Manuel. Specifically, Mr. Blumberg, what activities did this
group engage in, in order to improve racial relations in Bogalusa?
Wliat did you plan to do ?
Mr. Blumberg. We had decided to bring Brooks Hays to Bogalusa
to speak to the professional and business community.
The Chairman. We know who he is, but for the record would you
describe who he is ?
Mr. Blumberg. Mr. Hays is an ex-Congressman from the State of
Arkansas, and I understand he now has been working directly with
the President, going around and speaking, especially in the Southern
States.
The Chairman. He was an active religious leader; was he not?
Mr. Blumberg. He was. I started to say we wanted him because
he was a prominent Baptist layman and we were told he was an engag-
1 Community Relations Service.
2418 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
ing speaker, somewhat of a humorist. And we felt if he talked to the
professional and business community of Bogalusa, we possibly could
avoid some of these racial pitfalls that some of the other communities
had experienced prior to our problem. This actually was the main
purpose of our organization.
Mr. Manuel. Was your purpose at any time to force integration on
the city of Bogalusa?
Mr. Blumberg. Absolutely not.
Mr. Manuel. When was it decided to invite Mr. Hays to speak in
Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. We decided around the first part of December.
The Chairman. You are now in the year 1964 ?
Mr. Blumberg. In the year 1964; yes, sir. Mr. Talley had con-
tacted Mr. Hays and invited him to speak in Bogalusa and Mr. Hays
had accepted and we set the date around January 7.
Mr. Manuel. After the decision was made by the six of you gentle-
men, what action did you take to implement the appearance of Mr.
Hays in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. The first thing we did, we went to talk to the city
administrator, because we wanted the mayor and commission council
to sponsor the speech. We wanted the mayor to introduce Mr. Hays
and, frankly, we were going to step out of the picture.
We set up a meeting with Mayor Cutrer and the city council in the
City Hall. This was the period right before Christmas, perhaps mid.-
December of 1964. We met with the mayor and the commission coun-
cil and we told the mayor what we wanted to do.
Mr. Manuel. Did you act as spokesman for this group at that time?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, I did.
Mr. Manuel. Please proceed.
Mr. Blumberg. Basically, what we told the commission council was
that we wanted to bring Mr. Hays in. We explained why. In es-
sence, what we were really after was to get the entire business and
professional community behind the mayor and commission council if
trouble started in Bogalusa. We felt they were out on a limb and
somebody was getting ready to saw it off. But the mayor felt our tim-
ing was bad. We also made the statement that he was afraid the
Klan would violently object to the meeting.
There is one thing I left out, and it was very important. We were
told by Community Relations that since Mr. Hays was with the Federal
Government we had to have an integrated audience. So we decided to
invite 8 Negroes who had been working with the mayor in the past to
this meeting. We also felt it should be a private meeting. We felt if
it was public there would be trouble. We had a list of approximately
100 names of business and professional people in the community and
8 Negro leaders.
Mr. Manuel. So there would have been a total of 108 people?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Buchanan. I would like to say for the record, in further refer-
ence to Mr. Hays, that he served as president of the Southern Baptist
Convention of more than 10 million members and is a very prominent
Baptist layman.
The Chairman. Proceed.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2419
]Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, in addition to the mayor of Bogalusa
what other officials were present at your meeting?
Mr. Blumberg. The city attorney, Robert Rester; also the four
commissioners, Andy Overton, Arnold Spiers, Jim Talbot, and Mar-
shall Holloway.
Mr. Manuel. Did any of them contribute anything to the conversa-
tion about the appearance of Mr. Hays in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. The only one who spoke was the mayor and the
chief of police, Arnold Spiers, and they both agreed the Klan w^ould
violently object to an integrated meeting and they felt it was not the
time to hold a meeting. However, we asked the administration if they
would at least attend the meeting, and they agreed to do this.
Right before we left, which was a little before 3 o'clock, we asked
that they keep this information quiet. No one else in the community
knew about it at the time, and we wanted it kept quiet because we
didn't want the whole story out at that time. We had not issued the
invitations yet. That was 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
At 5 o'clock tliat same afternoon, Reverend Shepherd received a
knock at the door ; and the man at the door was a well-known charac-
ter in Bogalusa — I can't recall his name — "Buddy" somebody, and he
told the Reverend Shepherd that the Masons in tow^n had just heard
about Brooks Hays being invited and they didn't think it was a good
idea to bring Mr. Hays to Bogalusa. Of course, I am being nice in
saying it. I was told he was not that nice in relating the message.
Mr. Manuel. To go back to the meeting with the mayor and city
council, I understood you to say the mayor said the Klan would
object to Mr. Hays speaking in Bogalusa. As a private citizen, was
this your first encounter with the Klan as a powerful force in
Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. This was our baptism. This was the first time we
had heard the word "Klan" as it dealt with fear and power, yes.
Mr. Manuel. Subsequent to the meeting, will you tell the commit-
tee what your group's activities were in trying to obtain a place for
Mr. Hays to speak ?
Mr. Blumberg. We first wanted to hold the meeting in the Episco-
pal Church, Reverend Shepherd's church, but there was so much dif-
ficulty in obtaining the meeting place that his congregation asked
him not to have the meeting there. And all six of us tried all over
town, any place we could think of that was practical, to hold the
meeting, but we were turned down everywhere. We talked to the
gentleman in charge of the armory and were turned down there. We
talked to the mayor to try to get the City Hall, and they refused.
Finally we just had to give up finding a place to hold the meeting
because there was no place to be had.
Mr. Pool. I want to clarify something for the record. I didn't
get what you said about the man quoting the Masons.
Mr. Blumberg. He merely used the word that the "Masons" had
heard Brooks Hays was coming to Bogalusa and they didn't feel
Mr. Hays should come, but I am sure when he used the word "Masons"
he was just pulling it out of the air.
Mr. Pool. In other words, so far as you know, the Masons were not
involved in this ?
2420 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Blumberg. No ; not at all.
The CiiAiRMAx. In fact, yon referred to the so-called Buddy as a
"well-known character," so you are not subscribing to what he was
saying?
Mr. Blumberg. Absolutely not.
The Chairman. It might be advisable for you to speak a little about
that. By "character," do you means he was known as a segregationist
or possible Klansman then or subsequently known? IMiat did you
mean by that word "character" for the record ?
Mr. Blumberg. Number one, I understand he was quite a drunkard.
He used to love to brawl all the time, and I was told he was at one
time a deputy sheriff who was taken off the force. I don't know if he
was a policeman or not, but let us put it this way : he was a great
candidate for the Klan.
The Chairman. "Wliat do you mean by that ?
Mr. Blumberg. He was a great candidate for Klan membership.
The Chairman. I assumed that was what you meant from the way
you said it. I wanted it for the record.
Mr. Blumberg. Let us get it for the record.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, in your attempts to secure a speaking
place for Mr. Hays, what were the reasons that your group was turned
down at the places that you visited, by the persons that you visited?
The Chairman. I think I have the background for that. I take it
by this time, includine; the encounter with the minister you referred
to, I assume by this time in the chronology of your discussion it was
then quite well known in town that Brooks Hays had been invited or
might come ?
Mr. Blumberg. After the minister had been visited?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Blumberg. Actually, no. It wasn't. This is what surprised
us because nobody in town knew about this except the six of us.
The Chairman. We have learned, even in Congress, that three is
a crowd.
Mr. Blumberg. We learned it back in 1964. But anyway, this was
the first time we realized there was a leak in the city administration,
because they were the only ones who knew about this.
Mr. Manuel. Were any members of the city administration with
whom you met that day later known to be members that day of the
KuKluxKlan?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. As a result of a Federal hearing in New
Orleans a few weeks ago, the city attorney was named as a member
of the Klan.
Mr. Manuel. That was Robert Rester ?
Mr. Bluiviberg. Yes ; and he was at that meeting.
Mr. Manuel. Did there come a time when your group made an
announcement in the paper as to the invitation issued to Mr. Brooks
Hays?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
First, I think, to keep the record straight chronologically, right after
Reverend Shepherd had received this visit, I had gone to St. Louis
with my family for the holidays. Christmas and New Year's, and
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2421
while there I received a phone call from the radio station saying that
a pamphlet had been distributed in Bogalusa by the Klan. They said
in this pamphlet that Brooks Hays was coming to Bogalusa and we
were going to try to integrate them.
Mr. Maxuel. Do you have a copy of that pamphlet, Mr. Blumberg?
Mr. Bli :mberg. Yes, I do.
(Document marked "Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 1." See p. 2454.)
Mr. Manuel. Would you be good enough to read the pamphlet for
the committee ^
Mr. Bluriberg. Yes. [Reading:]
"On Sundav, December 27, 1964,"
The CHAIR3I AN. Wliat is the date ?
Mr. Blumberg. December 27, 1964. [Reading :]
On Sunday, December 27, 1964, the Bogalusa Daily News announced that a
"renowned layman" Brooks Hayes, is to speak in Bogalusa, on January 7, 1965.
His subject will be better community relations. The Bogalusa Daily News stated,
"a group of civic, religious and business leaders of Bogalusa have invited
Hayes to speak here at the St. Matthew's Espiscopal Church Parish House.
Due to limited seating facilities, the meeting will be by invitation."
The Daily News did not tell you the whole true story concerning this meeting
and it is the purpose of this leaflet to give you the full story concerning this
meeting.
In the first place, this meeting of January 7, 1965, is to be an integrated meet-
ing. The meeting was arranged by Bascom D. Talley, Jr., the local public or
community relations commissioner who is holding this job by appointment of
Lyndon B. Johnson under the infamous civil rights act. Bascom D. Talley
formed a committee to help shoulder the responsibility of this meeting. This
committee of integration minded people are the group of "civic, religious and
business leaders" referred to by the Daily News. Mr. Talley's committee is
composed of Bruce H. Shepherd, Minister of the St. Matthew's Episcopal
Church, V^ertrees Young, a member of the Episcopal Church, Reverend Jerry
Chance, Minister of the Main Street Baptist Church, Reverend Paul G. Gillespie.
Minister of the Memorial Baptist Church, Reverend James T. Harris, Minister
of the Methodist Church, Reverend Bob Lambright whose similar escapades have
made him a Minister without a church, Ralp Blumberg, owner and operator of
the radio station WBOX, and, of course, Lou Major, Mr. Talley's favorite puppet.
In the second place, this integrated meeting is for the sole purpose of planning
the integration of your Church, Schools, Businesses, Restaurants, Hotels, Motels,
etc., and those who will receive invitations to the January 7th meeting will be
people who Bascom D. Talley hopes that Brooks Hayes can convince that they
should change their social and religious lives, and that in turn will try to con-
vince you that you should help integration by sitting in Church with the black
man, hiring more of them in your businesses, serving and eating with them in
your cafes, and allowing your children to sit by filthy, runny-nosed, ragged, ugly
little niggers in your public schools.
In the third place, the Bogalusa Daily News did not tell you the whole story
about Brooks Hayes. He is a traitor to the South. He assisted Sherman
Adams draw the order to send Federal Troops into his own State of Arkansas
to put nine little niggers into white schools, the result of which was spending
.$5,000,000 of the taxpayers money as well as the beating and jailing of hundreds
of white citizens. As a result of Hayes' integration efforts, he was defeated
in his efforts for re-election to Congress by a political unknown. Dr. Dale
Alford. Brooks Hayes is now a member of the Civil Rights Community Relations
Committee and he is paid a lucrative salary by the Federal Government to
make talks such as he is scheduled to make in Bogalusa, on January 7th., 1965.
The Ku Klux Klan is strongly organized in Bogalusa and throughout Wash-
ington and St. Tammany Parishes. Being a secret organization, we have KLAN
members in every conceivable business in this area. We will know the names
of all who are invited to the Brooks Hayes meeting and we will know who did
and did not attend this meeting. Accordingly, we take this means to urge all
of you to refrain from attending this meeting. Those who do attend this meet-
2422 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
ing will be tagged as Integra tionists and will be delt [sic] with accordingly bv
the Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN.
There is in Bogalusa a man named Talley,
who with a hand picked committee has planned an integrated rally;
This man would love the nigger.
in order to grow financially bigger ;
He and his committee have come up with an integration plan, which is
bitterly opposed by the KU KLUX KLAN ;
Talley has attended Nigger Churches to sing,
this was done to please Martin Luther King ;
While Talley sings with his nigger group,
the KU KLUX KLAN will more Knights recruit ;
Soon Talley and his committee will know who is boss,
as the KU KLUX KLAN lights the fiery cross.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, is the source of this leaflet which you
?iave read identified on the flyer ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, it is. At the top it says : "Published By The
Original Ku Klux Klan Of Louisiana."
The Chairman. Let me ask you two questions :
Was this to be a meeting by invitation ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes; yes, this was to be a meeting by invitation.
The Chairman. Was the purpose of the meeting to force integration
or to accomplish the objectives suggested in that pamphlet ?
Mr. Blumberg. Absolutely not. Nothing could have been further
from the truth.
The Chairman. Why had it been decided to make the meeting by
invitation ?
Mr. Blumberg. We decided this because we were told by Commu-
nity Relations that Mr. Hays had to speak to an integrated audience
since be worked for the Federal Government. And we felt if we made
it an open meeting and it was to be integrated, there probably would
be a great deal of trouble; and we felt if we made it private, we could
keep the possibility of trouble down. Also, we were very, very anxious
to see to it that the power structure in the community attended the
meeting, and that is why we were going to make it private by invita-
tion. However, we never did have the opportunity to issue the
invitations.
The Chairman. As it turned out, based on subsequent events, did
you come to the conclusion that Mayor Cutrer, in expressing himself
as he did at the meeting you had with his council, was expressing a
factual opinion rather than personal involvement in approbation of
what might have developed ?
Mr. Blumberg. Mr. Willis, this is a difficult question to answer.
Perhaps I should say this, in all fairness to Mayor Cutrer.
The Chairman. I want the record straight on that.
Mr. Blumberg. I think the mayor has tried to do his very level best
as mayor of a deep South community. Here is a man who grew up
in Bogalusa, and many, many members of the Ku Klux Klan were
friends of his, and I am sure this man felt a moral obligation, as the
mayor. But I don't think I am qualified, or anyone else is qualified,
to criticize a man in his position. I don't know all of his problems,
and whatever his decisions have been, whatever his actions have been,
I am sure they were made in sincerity and honesty.
The Chairman. I am glad to hear you say that because subsequent
events as a factual matter proved trouble did arise.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2423
Mr. Blijmberg. That is true.
The Chairman. I liave never met the man and don't want to charge
hun for making a factual statement at that time.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. You stated Robert Rester was city attorney and in
attendance at the meeting and subsequently was disclosed as being a
member of the Klan through Federal court proceedings. Do you know
if he was elected by the people or appointed by the mayor ?
Mr. Blumberg. He was elected by the people.
Mr. Weltner. Thank you.
Mr. Pool. Let me see that pamjihlet. Were there any direct threats
to anyone attending the meeting ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Pool. Read what it says about that.
Mr. Blumberg. [Reading:]
We will know the names of all who are invited to the Brooks Hayes meeting
and we will know who did and did not attend this meeting. Accordingly, we
take this means to urge all of you to refrain from attending this meeting. Those
who do attend this meeting will be tagged as integrationists and will be delt fsic]
with accordingly by the Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN.
Mr. Pool. The words "dealt with accordingly" is that a threat?
Mr. Blumberg. I would say it is a threat; yes, sir. I think it is
about as definite a threat as you can make.
The Chairman. I think the word "intimidation'' would certainly
apply-
Mr. Pool. Is the word "intimidation' m there?
The Chairman. No. I think you asked if the words "dealt with
accordingly" could be construed as a threat. I think if you wanted to
use a word which, in my opinion, could not be questioned, it would be
an "intimidation" if not a "threat."
Mr. Pool. To be fair, you could say they would be dealt with ac-
cordingly in the next election, which would be all right.
Mr. Blumberg. That is true.
Mr. Pool. We are looking for acts of violence and threats. There
is a question in my mind whether you can call this a direct threat or
not.
Mr. Weltner. May I ask a question at this point, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. Would you read that part of the pamphlet tliat says
being members of a secret organization we have members in every
conceivable place, or words to that effect ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. [Reading :]
"Being a secret organization, we have KLAN members in every con-
ceivable business in this area."
Mr. Weltner. On the basis of the disclosures that have been made
subsequent to the distribution of this pamphlet, would you describe
that as an accurate statement ?
Mr. Blumberg. I will be honest with you. I think it is a very
honest statement ; yes.
Mr. Weltner. That is my opinion too.
Mr. Blumberg. And I have never changed my opinion.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3-
2424 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr, Weltner. The Klaii in Bopihisa did have Klan members, may-
be not in every conceivable position, but in many positions of im-
portance, and I think that point should be developed.
Mr. Pool, Are you goinjr to tie the Klan into threats later on in
your testimony ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. BuciiAXAN. Mr, Chairman, may I say, by way of being: "dealt
with accordingly,"' as I understand it, there were very few elected
officers there, weren't there? Weren't most of them church and busi-
ness and professional people? I don't know how they could deal
"accordingly" with ministers or editors on election day. And what
about business and professional men being "dealt with" on election
day?
Mr. Pool. I was thinking of the political leaders.
Mr. Buchanan. These were primarily other than elected officials.
Mr. Pool. I am not defending it. I am saying, in my opinion, it
is not a definite threat.
Mr. Buchanan. I am joining you in clarifying the record.
Mr. Weltner. That sounds like the man who said he didn't know
if it was a threat or not but they had authority to do away with him.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed,
Mr, Manuel. Following the distribution of the pamphlet you have
just read and following the fact you could not provide adequate
speaking facilities to Mr. Hays, did your group cancel the engage-
ment with Mr. Hays ?
Mr. Blumberg. We met at the newspaper office the first week in
January, I don't know the exact date, and we discussed this. In
saying "we," I am talking about the six in our group and the two
men from Community Relations. We talked from 8 o'clock in the
evening until 12 o'clock that night trying to make a decision on what
to do. We decided to cancel the meeting but to put a statement in
the paper explaining why we canceled it. We came back at 8 o'clock
the next morning and we all helped to draft the statement, and that
afternoon we published the statement in the paper.
Mr. Manuel. In general terms, what did the statement say?
Mr. Blumberg. I am a little hazy on the statement. However, as
I remember it, we told the public we had to cancel the Brooks Hays
meeting because everybody had feared the Klan in the community
and we couldn't find a place to hold the meeting, and we felt there
was no freedom of assembly in Bogalusa and we were ashamed of
this fact that we couldn't hold a public meeting because of fear. This,
in essence, was the general theme of the statement.
Mr. Manuel. Subsequent to the appearance of this statement in the
Bogalusa Daily News, were you personally or your family the objects
or victims of any harassment?
The Chairman. Before coming to that, let me develop a thought or
two here,
I have before me a copy of the opinion of the circuit court of
appeals decided recently iii coiniection with an injunction suit filed
by the United States of America against the following — and I will
name them and I want you to make a mental note if one of these de-
fendants in this suit comes to your mind as being the man called Buddy
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2425
who appeared at the minister's home. I don't know if it is a fact. I
see Mr. Appell shaking his head so maybe he knows the answer. Do
you know the answer, whether this man "Buddy" was one of the
defendants ?
Mr. Appell. He was not a defendant.
The Chairman. I am now advised that this man "Buddy" you re-
ferred to was not a defendant. But this suit was an injunction suit
filed by the United States against the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, an unincorporated association; the Anti-Communist
Christian Association, which we will talk about later; and then quite
a long list of individuals.^
Referring to your testimony thus far concerning the proposed speech
to be made by former Congressman Brooks Hays, the court, having
heard the evidence in the whole in that case, said the following :
"Specific Findings" — this is a subheading — "Specific Findings of
Klan Intimidation and Violence" :
We select the following examples of the defendants' acts of intimidation and
violence.
(1) January 7, 1965, former Congressman Brooks Hays of Arkansas, at the
invitation of religious, business, and civic leaders of Bogalusa, was scheduled to
speak in Bogalusa at St. Matthews Episcopal Church Parish House on the sub-
ject of community relations. The meeting was to be open to both Negroes and
whites and it was planned that seating would be on a racially non-segregated
basis. After learning of the proposed appearance of Mr. Hays and the arrange-
ments for an unsegregated meeting, the Klan and its members protested to the
Mayor and the members of the Commission Council and, by means of threats of
civil disorder and economic retaliation against local businessmen who supported
the meeting, caused the withdrawal of the invitation to Mr. Hays to speak.
December 18, 1964, before the Hays invitation was withdrawn, the Mayor of
Bogalusa and Police Commissioner Arnold Spiers, in an effort to head off possible
civil disorder, appeared at a Klan meeting at the Disabled Veterans Hall. The
show of force at this meeting by over 150 hooded Klansmen —
and [to Mr. Pool] I quote now for your information —
unquestionably intimidated public oflScials in Bogalusa and, later, hindered effec-
tive police action against Klan violence. On the stand. Mayor Cutrer admitted
that he teas "frightened when he looked into 150 pairs of eyes." [Emphasis in
original.]
So at that point in your chronology, I think it is valuable for the
record to have the findings of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
(Document marked "Ealph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2." (See
pp. 2475-2519.)
Mr. Pool. It does not have too much importance to the question of
the pamphlet he was raising.
The Chairman. I don't know.
Mr. Pool. The "150 pairs of eyes" were the most important.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. Pool. That is what I was pointing out a while ago.
1 United States of America, by Nicholax deB. Katzenhach, Attorney General of the
United States v. Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, an unincorporated association ;
Anti-Communist Christian Association, a corporation ; Saxon Farmer; Charles Christmas ;
Russell Magee; Dewey Smith; Virgil Corkern ; Albert Applewhite; E. J. (Jack) Dixon;
Delos Williams; James M. Ellis; Hardie Adrian Goings, Jr.; Esley Freeman; Arthur Ray
Applewhite; James A. Hollingsworth, Jr.; Randle C. Pounds; Sidney August Warner;
Billy Alford; Rawlin Williamson; Louis Applewhite ; Willis BlackweU; J. A. Hollings-
worth, Sr. ; Lattimore McNeese; Ira Dunaway ; Doyle Tynes ; Charles Ray Williams ; Frank-
lin Harris; Charles McClendon ; Delton Graves; Milton Earl Parker; Mervin Taylor; Van
Day; Ray Risner ; James D. Terrell; .J. D. Jones; Richard E. Krebs ; Michael R. Holden;
James Burke; Albert Simmons, Jr.; and Noel Ball, Jr., — • U.S. District Court for the
Eastern District of Louisiana, New Orleans Division, Civil Action No. 15793 ; 250 F. Supp.
330, decided Dec. 1, 1965.
2426 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumber^, would you please tell the committee
what actions of harassment or intimidation were directed against you
and in what form, sir?
Mr. Blumberg. After we put the statement in the paper — we signed
our names, all six of us, to the statement, and then the following day
we broadcast our first editorial since we had been in Bogalusa about
the civil rights problem.
Mr. Manuel. This is over your radio station WBOX ?
Mr. Blumberg. WBOX ; yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Proceed.
Mr. Blumberg. And we merely explained why we participated in
the Brooks Hays affair, for the reasons I have given you before. And
also we told the people that the civil rights law was now the law of
the land and, regardless of how you felt about it, it must be complied
with or the community was going to be in trouble. And this, in es-
sence, was exactly what we had stated editorially.
Of course, this editorial and the statement in the paper was like
setting off a time bomb. "We received threatening telephone calls at
the station and at home, and the essence of the calls — not only myself,
but the other five men involved. And the pattern was pretty much
the same :
"When you signed this statement you have signed your death war-
rant."' And some of the calls stated that "we are going to kill your
wife and your children" or "we are going to take care of your wife and
your children.-' This type of thing.
Mr. Pool. To whom were these calls made ?
Mr. Blumberg. They were made to myself, my wife answered some,
some of the announcers at the station answered some, and they were
also made to the other five members.
Mr. Pool. Did you recognize any of the voices ?
Mr. Blumberg. No, sir. They were completely anonymous.
Mr. Pool. Completely anonymous, and you couldn't pinpoint them ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Pool. Did you report it to the police department?
Mr. Blumberg. No, sir, I didn't.
Mr. Pool. Why didn't you ?
Mr. Blumberg. Frankly, I didn't think about it. As I look back
on it, I should have as a matter of record, but I didn't and I don't think
any of the other men did.
Mr. Pool. AVas it your feeling the police department wouldn't do
anything about it ?
Mr. Blumberg. Frankly, I don't see what anybody could do about
it, being anonymous phone calls.
Mr. Pool. How about the FBI ?
Mr. Blumberg. No.
Mr. Pool. You didn't report it to them either ?
Mr. Blumberg. No.
Then around this time, I guess a few days later, a man walked into
the station that we knew fairly well, and I wasn't there. He talked
to my wife. He sat down in front of her and he made a statement that
friends of his were very surprised I signed the statement in the paper
and they felt that I had been hoodwinked into getting involved, and
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2427
thev felt I should publicly apologize for signing the statement and
I should explain that all of this was, in essence, a bunch of lies and
that I really didn't intend to have anything to do with it.
And my wife told him that I wasn't going to apologize for any-
thing ; I knew exactly what I had done.
And he shrugged his shoulders and he made this statement, he said :
'•AVell, these friends of mine don't want to harm women and chil-
dren." He shinigged his shoulders and walked away.
Mr. IVIanuel. Did he identify the friends of his of whom he was
speaking ?
Mr. Blumberg. No. That is merely what it was. And then after
that I sent my wife and family to St. Louis to stay for a while.
Mr. Manuel. As far as the phone-call harassment is concerned, did
it take any particular pattern ?
Mr. Blumberg. Well, the most annoying thing was the fact we re-
ceived phone calls perhaps every 2 hours all throughout the evening,
all night long. Nobody would say anything. Pick up the receiver
and there would be nothing on the other end.
Mr. Manuel. How long did this last, Mr. Blumberg ?
Mr. Blumberg. It is kind of hard to say. I imagine, if I could pin-
point it, perhaps about 3 weeks.
Mr. Pool. Did you ever ask the telephone company to give you an
unlisted number ? Or don't they do that now ?
Mr. Blumberg. No. Actually, what I did, after a while I just took
it off the hook and left it off.
Mr. Manuel. Were there any other acts of intimidation and har-
assment directed toward you, such as tacks in your tires, and so forth?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. I had the car windows of my automobile
smashed, my wife's smashed, and we had tacks put in the driveway
and ruined, you know, a set of tires, and that is about it.
Mr. Pool. You didn't report this to the police department?
Mr. Blumberg. We reported this.
Mr. Pool. You did report it ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Was there any trouble at your transmitting tower in
Bogalusa?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. After we made our plight jDublic nationally
and editorialized, we decided to fight the Klan. Eight after our first
editorial, which was on a Thursday, some time in March, that evening
we received seven bullet holes in our transmitter house fired by a high-
powered rifle.
Mr. Weltner. May I interrupt as a matter of chronology?
This meeting with Mr. Hays was supposed to have been on January
r?
Mr. Blumberg. That is right.
Mr. Weltner. And at the time there was a statement in the paper
which bore your name and the editorial, and the general acts of har-
assment continued all through the month of March ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. There were no other statements and editorials,
but
Mr. Blumberg. We skipped. I haven't told the rest of it yet.
2428 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Eight after the January 7 editorial, the most effective weapon the
Klan, of course, used against me was the boycott. They would call our
sponsors by telephone and tell them if they didn't stop advertising on
the station that they would boycott their place of business. And they
received numerous phone calls and finally the advertisers had to go
off the station and they pretty well reduced our income.
And then — and I think this should be told for the record because I
made a big mistake — right after we lost most of our sponsors, around
the middle of January, I didn't say another word — no editorializing,
no nothing. I simply tried to get our sponsors back on the radio sta-
tion. To be honest about it, I think I was actually appeasing the Klan.
And then around March, the 1st of March, we had most of the spon-
sors back on, and they started the phone call routine again. It was
very organized this time, and they reduced us down from approxi-
mately 75 sponsors a month to around 6. This is when I knew I had
made a mistake, because you just can't compromise with the devil, and
that is what I was trying to do. And I think this is important that
this be told for the record, because there is no compromise with this
sort of evil.
And they had reduced our sponsorship to about 6. We had to
make up our mind at this time what to do. I am sure the Klan felt
we would close our doors and walk away quietly and do nothing, but
we decided to make a fight, for two reasons :
One, if we could keep our doors open long enough with outside help,
perhaps the merchants would come back and advertise again.
And, number two, which is real important, the longer we could keep
our doors open, we felt the better it was going to be for small radio
stations and small communication media in small markets, especially
in the South. Because, if the Klan could close our doors easily, this
would be a tremendous display of strength. And the longer we could
keep our doors open, I felt the more frustrated and more confused we
would get these people and perhaps they would think twice before
hitting a communications media again.
This actually has been our purpose in this fight, and our fight
basically has been for freedom of speech. It's that simple. It has
nothing to do with integration or segregation, regardless of what the
Klan wants to make out. It is strictly a matter of freedom of speech.
And this, gentlemen, has been exactly what the fight has been about,
as far as I am concerned, with the Klan.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, what reason do you have to believe
that this boycott of which you speak was initiated and carried through
bytheKuKluxKlan?
Mr, Blumberg. I didn't know at the beginning, and even in our
editorials we never mentioned the name of the Klan until they came
out with one of their own publications and publicly stated that they
were behind the boycott.
Mr. Manuel. Do you have a copy of that particular publication?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Was it likewise, as the other publications which you
read, distributed by the Original Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please read that, Mr, Blumberg, for the
committee ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2429
Mr. Blumberg. The entire article ?
Mr. Manuel. Would 3'ou, please? Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What is the date of it, so we will know ?
Mr. Bltjmberg. I don't have a date.
Mr. Appell. It is not dated.
The Chairman. It is not dated. Could you fix about the day so
that we could put in the record a chronological understanding?
]Mr. Blumberg. It must have been around March or April, I guess.
The Chairman. 1965?
Mr. Manuel. The early part of 1965, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Bluimberg. [Reading:]
As a result of the statement issued in the Bogalusa Daily News, signed by
Bascom D. Talley, Jr., Bruce Shepherd, Paul Gillespie, Jerry Chance, Ralph
Blumberg and Lou Major announcing the cancellation of the invitational, inte-
grated, speaking engagement in this city by Brooks Hays, our City, as well as
the Klan, received unfair, biased, national publicity from television and news-
papers throughout the country. The national news media quoted Bascom Talley
as saying that Bogalusa has a "leadership vacuum". They quoted Bruce
Shepherd as saying "Bogalusa has a high rate of alcoholism and mental illness".
The national press even misquoted Brooks Hays who was supposed to have said
"Bogalusa is a city in the grips of the Ku Klux Klan." Even one magazine
contained an article entitled "Klan Town U.S.A." which accused Bogalusa of
being dominated by the Ku Klux Klan. This article was written by a free lance,
alcoholic reporter — Paul Good, who spent over $100.00 on alcoholic beverages,
who wrecked his car, and who was charged with reckless driving during his
short visit to Bogalusa.
Bruce Shepherd was quoted as saying that he had received calls threaten-
ing to bomb his church if Brooks Hays were allowed to speak there. We accuse
Bruce Shepherd of lying. There was no such threat or threats made and we
challenge Bruce Shepherd to prove that he made such a report to the police.
Mr. Manuel. At that point let me interrupt you for a moment and
ask, did you know whether as a matter of fact Reverend Shepherd had
received threats to bomb his church ?
Mr. Blumberg. I don't know. I really don't know.
Mr. Manuel. All right.
Mr. Blumberg. [Reading:]
Bruce Shepherd must have had his family in mind rather than our city when
he stated we had a high rate of alcoholism and mental illness because Bruce
Shepherd himself can be observed frequently emerging from the Cuban Liquor
Company with an arm load of liquor. We further would have you know that
Bruce Shepherd's son recently faced a charge in court for morals violation and
was committed to a mental institution.
The Ku Klux Klan is now in the process of checking on Reverend Shepherd's
moral standards. If he is cleared you will be so informed. If he is not cleared,
you will be informed of any and all misdeeds or moral violations of his in the
past.
Much has been printed about the Ku Klux Klan being a violent organization.
This is not true. There was no violence when public accommodations were
tested in this city and there has been no violence since then. We, however,
have formed a large block white vote which will more than offset any other
block vote in this entire parish. We also are boycotting businesses which cater
to integration such as Mobile Gas Stations, Radio Station W.B.O.X., Rosenblum's,
Zesto and the Barbecue Inn.
Mr. Manuel. At that point Mr. Blumberg, let me ask you if you
know why the Klan would boycott the Mobile gas stations in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Blumberg. I am a little hazy on this one. I feel it is probably
because, if I am not mistaken, I think this was operated by some Negro
2430 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
attendants and they catered greatly to Negro trade, and I was told that
Mr. Talley owned the land on which this station was located.
Mr. Maxuel. Do you know whether the boycott was successful as
far as the Mobile gas stations were concerned?
Mr. Blumberg. They have almost ruined the people financially.
Mr. Manuel. What about the other business establishments men-
tioned— Rosenblum's, Zesto, and the Barbecue Inn ?
Mr. Blumberg. I don't know anything about their boycotts, nor
the reasons.
Mr. Manuel. Please proceed, sir.
Mr. Blumberg. Where did I leave off ?
Mr. Manuel. Right after "Barbecue Inn."
Mr. Blumberg. [Reading:]
The Bogalusa Daily News is also being boycotted by the Klan because while
the National press was tearing Bogalusa into shreds, it did not print one single
word in the defense of Bogalusa. The theory behind boycotting the Daily News
and these other businesses is that to financially aid such business institutions is
comparable to buying bullets for a man as John Dillenger who would take the
bullets and then kill you and rob your city.
Congressman Charles Weltner of Atlanta, Georgia, a member of the House
Committee of Unamerican Activities has proposed that committee investigate
the Klan. We wonder why he doesn't also propose to investigate the Black
Muslems who advocate black supremacy, who commit murder and who commit
arson all over the country in a period of one week and who defied and refused
to allow Chicago Police to enter their meeting place while they were beating
almost to the point of death one of Malcolm X's friends. We urge each of you
to write this Congressman and demand that he investigate the Black Muslems.
The original Ku Klux Klan invites any investigation that Congressman Weltner
should like to make. The citizens of Bogalusa know that this city has always
been a Klanish City from the days of the Great Southern Lumber Company until
now. We have never appreciated outsiders telling us how to run our city.
Outsiders have often caused trouble in our City. A good example of this was
when labor unions were forming in Bogalusa. A gang of union busters or hired
gunmen were brought into this city to kill those who stood up for the common
man. As a result of such incidents, it is only natural that Bogalusa would be
Klanish.
The Chairman. Have you finished ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes, sir.
(Document marked "Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 3." See p. 2455.)
Tlie Chairman. I would like to point this out, in view of the refer-
ence to the committee :
This committee, on March 30, 1965, voted unanimously to conduct
the investigation we are now conducting. It voted also to request the
House to furnish funds to do so, and the House by an overwhelming
vote did it. Now the last "resolve" of that resolution wliich authorizes
this particular investigation reads as follows :
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Chairman is directed—
meaning myself —
to continue the preliminary inquiry into the activities of the Black Muslims,
the Minutemen and the American Nazi Party previously authorized by the Com-
mittee, for the purpose of determining whether an investigation of the.se groups
is called for.
With reference to that "resolve," I have said many times that we
cannot be in two places at one time or do two things at one time. And
I added, always, that sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2431
This preliminary inquiry is still goincr on with reference to these
other organizations, and that is the way it stands at this time.
I think the record should also reflect my personal views anyway, and
that is all I have to say.
Here ^^e are hearing evidence of threats, intimidation, and boycotts.
That at least during the period of our history thus far has not been
a pretty word— ''boycotts.'' We want the evidence that you are pre-
senting. It is important. But I must, in all honesty to myself, say
that a boycott, wherever it comes from, is no good.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, during the period of this boycott
which you have described against your radio station, did you subse-
quently regain any sponsors ?
Mr. Blumberg. We did. We had a few, and then would lose them
again, until it got to the point where, frankly, I think we had one local
sponsor left and perhaps two or three national sponsors. People were
too frightened. I can't blame the merchants. The only way they
could have broken the back of the boycott was to stand up together.
Of course, this has been the problem from the beginning in Bogalusa :
For some reason good people
The Chairman. I meant to add that perhaps another mistake your
group made was not to pursue that meeting, and perhaps the engaging
in boycotts would have been prevented. I wanted to complete my
statement. You may comment.
Mr. Blumberg. Right.
The Chairman. In other words, I agree with you when you said
you should have kept on.
Mr. Blumberg. Right.
The Chairman. And perhaps better results would have been
achieved if the committee had not yielded in the first place.
Mr. Blumberg. This is quite true, but for some reason
The Chairman. I am not reproachful.
Mr. Blumberg. No. I was just continuing.
For some reason we have never been able to get the power struc-
ture in the community, Bogalusa, to stand up together and do away
with all of this nonsense. I think it is the answer to peacefully re-
solving the civil rights problem not only in Bogalusa, but in any com-
munity, because the people of Bogalusa are no different than the peo-
ple in any small community in the country. North, South, East, or
West. I would say 90 to 95 percent of the people are good people,
but, if the people would only quit underrating themselves and stand
up, they would be amazed how much power they have if they stand
together. I think it is the key to this kind of a problem and some-
how, somewhere along the line, the answer to getting people to be-
come involved is going to be found. But until it is, there is going
to be a great deal of difficulty not only in Bogalusa, but anywhere
else, because Bogalusa is not unique, it is like any community any-
where in this country. And this goes for the State of Louisiana, too.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. Mr. Pool.
Mr. Pool. How do you account for the fact that Bogalusa didn't
stand up, where most communities in the South have handled their
racial situation in a whole lot better manner than they did in Boga-
lusa ?
2432 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Blumberg. I think possibly it was because, for some reason,
the Klan was allowed to infiltrate the community in the powerful
places too quickly and before it was discovered it was too late. I
think this is the basic reason. Why this happened, of course, is any-
one's guess.
Mr. Weltner. Who was running the affairs of that town, Mr.
Blumberg, in the first part of the year 1965? Was it the civic and
religious leaders or the Ku Klux Klan?
Mr Blumberg. The first part of 1965 ?
Mr. Weltner. From the time you invited Brooks Hays until March
or June, who was running the town at that time? Who was exer-
cising the decision power? Whose decisions were being carried out?
Mr. Blumberg. I am sure it was supposed to be Mayor Cutrer and
the commission council. I really don't know how much they were
influenced. Let's put it that way.
Mr. Pool. Were the decisions being made at Ku Klux Klan head-
quarters for the city ?
Mr. Blumberg. I really — I mean, all I can offer you is a personal
opinion.
Mr. Pool. That is what I asked.
Mr. Blumberg. If you want my pei-sonal opinion, I don't think any
decision was made unless 9i great deal of thought was put into how
this would affect the Klan leadership, what they Avould think about it.
Mr. Pool. They AVeren't actually calling the shots, but they were
more or less in a veto position ; they could veto ?
Mr. Blumberg. They were an influencing factor then, and I think
they are an influencing factor right now when I am sitting here talk-
ing to you. I have never changed my mind about that.
The Chairman. I think it would be appropriate at this point — I
want in the record at some point — for me to refer to the findings arid
holdings of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in the case I read
from a while ago, particularly with reference to one of the defendants,
the Anti-Communist Christian Association. The court, with refer-
ence to that outfit and the Klan, said this :
We find that to attain its ends, the klan exploits the forces of hate, prejudice,
and ignorance. We find that the klan relies on systematic economic coercion,
varieties of intimidation, and physical violence in attempting to frustrate the
national policy expressed in civil rights legislation. We find that the klansmen,
whether cloaked and hooded as members of the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, or skulking in anonymity as members of a sham organization, "The
Anti-Communist Christian Association", or brazenly resorting to violence on the
open streets of Bogalusa, are [and quoting] a "fearful conspiracy against
society * * ♦."
* * * * ^ i^ *
The evidence clearly establishes that the Anti-Communist Christian Associa-
tion is not a bona fide, independent organization but is the defendant klan
thinly disguised under a respectable title. At an earlier time, the klan's dummy
organization was called the Bogalusa Gun and Riflo Club. The defendants'
efforts to appear respectable by association may also be reflected in the location
of the klan's principal oflSce in the Disabled American Veterans Hall.
That is the end of the quotation.
That is why I stated yesterday that in all of the long history of the
phony front groups that the Klan has used to appear respectable, they
are just as false as a 2-foot yardstick, and I am glad to have a court,
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2433
the circuit court of appeals, a^ree with the views of this committee
and with the evidence we have been presenting along the same lines.
Proceed.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Blumberg, the fact is that you decided to leave
Bogalusa and sell your WBOX, Bogalusa. Will you please tell the
committee when you made this decision and why '(
Mr. Blumberg. Well, we decided to sell the station around No-
vember. We made the decision because, number one, we had been
receiving outside help from individuals and some broadcasting stations
from around the country, and we were running out of money, and
we realized the merchants weren't going to come back with the station
for a long time, if ever. We also felt we were making the decision
to sell ; the Klan was not making it for us. We could possibly have
kept going, but we decided that we had proved our point as much
as we possibly could. My family was in St. Louis, my wife and two
children living there, and myself in Bogalusa for 4 or 5 months, which
is no way to live. I don't think we could have ever lived in Bogalusa
in peace again. So we had no choice, really, we had to sell. But
we didn't close our doors ; they didn't drive us out of business like they
wanted to do. So its kind of a pathetic thing to say, really, but in
a way we had our share of victory. But, unfortunately, the Klan has
won their battle in Bogalusa. They control, they influence greatly
now all of the press, the news media. But I am hoping that perhaps
they will think a little harder before they ever hit a communications
media again. If they control the press, half of their battle has been
won.
Mr. Manuel. At the time you decided to sell, did you know that
the Klan w^ould never let up its boycott and pressure on your former
sponsors ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes. As a matter of fact, we had a sponsor, the
first one in 9 months, that came back with us a few months ago.
He was an automobile dealer Avho changed his location to a new place
and he w-anted to try the station once again. He felt everything was
all right. He was on the station for 3 days. The morning of the
fourth day he called me and said that he had received a flood of
phone calls all day long at his business and even at nighttime at his
home, and he felt he just had to go back off, and I agreed. So
nothing has changed.
Mr. Manuel. Can you fix the approximate date of that incident ?
Mr. Blumberg. I think that was probably late Octolier, early No-
vember.
Mr. Manuel. And that was almost a year after the invitation to
Brooks Hays which you have described to the committee?
Mr. Blumberg. That is correct.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.
The Chairman. We appreciate your appearance. I think you have
made a contribution to the hearings. I don't know whether you would
be prepared to answer a question which I would like to propound.
Maybe you would like to think about it and reappear. It is this:
This committee will be called upon to make a report to the House
and to recommend remedial legislation as a result of the hearings and
2434 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
based upon the hearing record after it is completed. I can conceive
of a number of possibilities, of a number of possible approaches. I
do not know what they will be specifically, any more than a judge
knows what he will decide until he has heard the wliole evidence.
Certainly, a possible approach to remedial legislation would be an
amendment to the Internal Security Act of 1950, of which I was not
the author, but wrote the report and helped manage it on the floor of
the House. That law requires the Connnunist Party and, under cer-
tain circumstances, its officers and members to register — in simple
terms — under sanctions or punishments or penalties for not doing so.
After many years of litigation — I think 11 years to be specific — the
Supreme Court, in 1961 I think it was, upheld that law as a consti-
tutional piece of legislation. But then, subsequently, when it came to
implement it according to its terms, that is, the forced registration, we
have met frustration. I am not in the least reproaching an3^one in that
connection. It's not my business to point the finger at anyone or to
criticize another branch of the Government, but it is a fact we have
had trouble in implementing it.
Now, a possible approach would be to amend that act and to include
Klan organizations and members, possibly, to register.
Another approach would be based upon our experience over the
years. When the Klans were at their peak specifically within my
generation, in 1915 and the early twenties, all the Southern States, in-
cluding my own, with the legislatures as then composed, saw fit to
enact laws curbing certain activities of the Klans that then operated,
including, for instance, in some States, making it unlawful for Klans
to appear in hooded robes — and you mentioned that a while ago —
on public property and prohibiting appearance in hooded robes on
private property without the consent of the owner. And so on. Per-
haps that could be a beginning. Perhaps a Federal law could be
fashioned and the law^ modified to fit the Nation.
Thirdly, another approach — and these are possibilities only — would
be a Federal statute to make it unlawful, to use short terms, for
groups of people to engage in types of activities described in that cir-
cuit court of appeals decision and thereby deprive other people of the
enjoyment of their rights under the Constitution.
So those w^ould be three possibilities that now occur to me and that
I have been thinking about.
Based upon your experience, I was going to ask you now, or later
if you prefer, while you are on the stand whether you have any sug-
gestions as possible remedial legislation that we might recommend.
It is a tough one, it is not an easy one. We will wrestle with it and
we will come out with something. I am wondering if you are pre-
pared to make any suggestions.
Mr. BlumberCt. Actually, Congressman Willis, I really don't have
any suggestions for legislation as such. As I have stated before, you
know when you go through something like this, like one of the FBI
agents told me down there, all of a sudden you become a great soci-
ology expert. But the one thing that keeps coming back to my mind
time and time again is the same answer, and this goes beyond the
Klan and civil rights movement: We are talking about human be-
ings, about people. For some reason today good people, people who
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2435
know better, educated people, don't want to become involved in any-
thinfr that lias to do with trouble. And I think it is irettin^ to the point
where this type of person is goin^ to have to become involved, be-
cause I think that our basic principles are at stake now in a lot of
ways. This Klan thine; and the civil ri<^hts movement are just one
part of it. And I don't care how much legislation we enact, you still
come back to the human beings. People have got to realize that they
must become involved in these things, regardless of how much trouble
is involved, if it affects their freedoms. We are either going to prove
to the world that we are a democratic country or we are not, that we
are a freedom-loving people or we are not, and there is no in between.
You can't compromise with this thing, you can't rationalize; you
either stand for it or you don't, you are going to fight for it or you
are not.
This applies not only to the battlefront in Vietnam, for example,
this applies on the home front, too. As I said before, this is only one
little part of it we are talking about today, but to me this is the answer,
and legislation, of course, is the way to open the door to make it easier,
but it still is coming right back to the same old answer all over again —
people themselves, nidividuals.
The CiiAiRMAX. Of course, I agree with you. But if we believe in
another precept of our governmental structure, to the effect that we are
a government of law and not of men, then we must think about rules,
with sanctions attached to them.
Anyway, I am glad to have your views, and I completely agree with
you that this involves personal involvement of people. People have
to speak out. It becomes a little tough now and then.
I made a lot of speeches in my district and all over the State of
Louisiana in the last few weeks, and I said about what you have said.
But I did add this, and I think it was well received and I think it is
true: A person has to be proud of country and heritage, where he
comes from and what he stands for. I said that I am an American
citizen who comes from the South and I am proud of it. But I, for the
life of me, cannot convince myself that believing in or joining a hate
group, whether on the right or the left, would make me either a bet-
ter American or a better Southerner. So I am willing to involve my-
self and I do hope that, as a result of the hearings, you and I will
have more company.
I have a note from my general counsel that the Fifth Circuit Court
of Appeals case to which I referred — let me say in my own words, this
is a landmark decision with reference to these specific hearings, and
it was written by Judge Wisdom of New Orleans, and I think it ought
to be made a part of the record. At the conclusion of today's hear-
ing record, I would like for it to be made a part of this record.
(See pp. 2475-2519.) It is United States of America against the Orig-
inal Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and it came out of the Eastern Dis-
trict of Louisiana, a three- judge court composed of Judge John Wis-
dom of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and District Judges Herbert
Christenberry of Xew Orleans and District Judge Robert Ainsworth
of New Orleans.
The decision was written by Judge Wisdom who is a Fifth Circuit
Court of Appeals Judge.
2436 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX EXAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Pool. I have no questions. I thank the witness for appearing
and giving us the benefit of his appearance. I think it was very helpful
to the committee, esjpecially in view of the fact that you have been in
the radio and television news media which makes you a more qualified
witness than some others and I appreciate it.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I have some questions.
Mr. Blumberg, I think you sent your wife and children to St. Louis
shortly after the series of harassing telephone calls and they remained
there until the sale of the station ?
Mr. Blumberg. They had come back after about 30 days. They
stayed in Bogalusa with me until we had received a report from some
friends of ours in Bogalusa which we have never been able to prove.
To make a long story short, the word "kidnaping" was used in rela-
tion to getting even with me, and I discussed this with the FBI. They
said, "Get the family back to St. Louis," and we did.
Mr. Weltner. Did you do that because you feared for their life
and safety ?
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. You feared for their safety in the hands of the Ku
KluxKlan?
Mr. Bluimberg. I don't know who it would be, but it probably would
have been the Klan.
Mr. Weltner. Well, you know who it was ; let's put it that way.
Mr. Blumberg. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. I have been very much impressed with your con-
viction, very forcibly and eloquently stated, that it is time for people
to become involved and, in effect, stand up for what they profess to
believe.
I wonder what public officials stood up during this time of crisis in
the city of Bogalusa ? You gave editorials on the radio station. Mr.
Major stood up through his newspaper. Several ministers stood up
in their action. Wliat did public officials do in that city in an effort
to protect law and order?
Mr. Blumberg. Actually the mayor came out with a statement say-
ing there would be law and order.
^ Mr. Weltner, it is difficult to say exactly what they did under the
circumstances. All I can do is boil it down to one statement : I think
these men did as well as they could possibly do. Wliether they were
right or whether they were wrong, I think is immaterial.
The fact that these were men who grew up in this community, had
to face this problem unexpectedly — I just don't have the right to, you
know, to personally criticize these men. I honestly believe that they
did the best they could do. It is that simple.
Mr. Weltner. The problem they had to face unexpectedly was the
wholesale infiltration of the Klan into the fabric of the community.
Mr. Blumberg. In the civil rights problem ; yes.
Mr. Weltner. What effect, Mr. Blumberg, would you say that the
anonymity or the secrecy or hidden identity of members of the Klan
had in the apparent ability of the Klan to work its will upon this com-
munity?
Mr. Blumberg. Like spreading a blanket of fear over the entire
community, and this is the great effective weapon of the Klan.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2437
Mr. Weltxer. Secrecy^
Mr. Blt"\ibekg. Secrecy.
Mr. Weltxer. "Well, now, that is interesting. I would like to read
to you from a document that has previously been placed into the rec-
ord of these hearings, ''The Seven Symbols of The Klan" (Allen Bayne
Exhibit No, 3) ; ^ all of this is under the aegis of the United Klans of
America. The statement, I think, holds true that says, "The secret
of our power lies in the secrecy of our membership."
That is a statement emanating from a Klan publication. Do you
agree with that statement, that the secrecy of the Klan's power is the
secrecy of its membership ?
Mr. Blumberg. Right.
Mr. WEf/rxER. In view of your experience, I would also like to read
to you certain portions of another document published by the United
Klans of America called The Principle of the United Klans of Amer-
ica, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (Allen Bayne Exhibit No. 1),- I
am taking certain excerpts from this. I will ask your opinion on this.
This says :
We believe in just laws and liberty.
By just laws is meant laws that apply equally to all, rich and poor, educated,
men and women. * * *
What is your experience with the Ku Klux Klan as to whether that
proclamation is believed and transposed to action and continued.
Mr. Blumberg. I don't believe they believe this at all.
Mr, Weltxer, [R«admg:] "We believe in the upholding of the
Constitution of these United States."
Bearing in mind that the first amendment of the Constitution of the
United States includes the right peaceably to assemble, I wonder
whether or not you believe this statement.
Mr. Blumberg. I think they believe in this statement as it is inter-
preted by them.
Mr. Weltner. Wliat about this :
We believe in freedom of speech : By this is meant the right of any citizen to
express an opinion on any subject, either publicly or privately, so long as no
other person's private character is assailed. * * *
Now, you have expressed some opinions publicly and I wonder
whether or not your experience bears out a jfirm belief in this proclama-
tion.
Mr. Bli'mberg. Let me answer that by saying this: There is no
freedom of speech or freedom of assembly or a businessman's right
to run his business in Bogalusa today.
Mr, Weltner. Wliat about this :
We believe in a free press, uncontrolled by political or religious sects.
The press should be free to spread news without coloring it to suit any person
or sects : * * *
What has been your experience with that as a member of the press
and as an associate of Mr. Lou Major, publisher of the newspaper
there,
Mr. Blumberg, At this time the newspaper, which was formerly a
liberal paper, is a completely conservative newspaper. It is not the
real policy of the editor down there. It isn't what he really believes,
^ See committee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 347-352.
-Ibid. pp. 366-371.
2438 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Pool. Let me interrupt right there now. You said, "conser-
vative newspaper." Are you saying that conservatives are followers
oftheKuKluxKlan?
Mr. Blumberg. Xo, I am not saying that.
Mr. Pool. I wanted to distinguish that. I kind of like to be con-
sidered a conservative in my district. People down there like con-
servatives, and I want to get that in the record straight.
Mr. Buchanan. May I say amen ?
Mr. Blumberg. That is not what I meant. The paper publishes
news slanted the way the Klan w^ants it slanted. There is no doubt
about it.
Mr. Weltner. So you wouldn't particularly believe the practice of
the Klan as taught by this belief in a free press ?
Mr. Blumberg. Absolutely not.
Mr. Weltner. You previously testified that a friend of yours came
to you and said that — or someone well known to you came and said
that his friends wanted you to retract everything you have said and
followed it by saying, "We don't want to harm women and children,"
and following that your wife and child were sent to St. Louis and once
again were sent to St. Louis.
What about this : "We believe in the protection of our pure woman-
hood, the home * * *.'"
Mr. Blumberg. I don't know who wrote that.
Mr. Weltner. This is written by the United Klans of America,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Lie, in Alabama.
Mr. Blumberg. I don't believe any of that ; none of it that you have
read so far.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
Mr. Buchanan. I would just like to thank the witness for his testi-
mony, Mr. Chairman. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness will be excused. Thank you ever so
much. We certainly appreciate the contribution you have made.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. I would like to call to the stand Mr. Charles Christmas.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order. The next wit-
ness will come forward.
Will you call your next witness ?
Mr. Appell. I have, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Charles Christmas.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but tlie truth, so help you God?
Mr. Christmas. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES HORTON CHRISTMAS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. Christmas. Charles Horton Christmas.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Christmas. June 18, 1917, Meridian, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Christmas. I am.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2439
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Yes, sir. My name is Michael S. Ingram, engaged in
private practice of law from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Chairman, if I might clarify the record, for your record, the
decision that you referred to during the testimony of the last witness
from the case of the United States of America against the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was not a Fifth Circuit Court of
Appeals decision.
The Chairman. I am sorry, it was a three- judge court decision.
Mr. Ingram. It came out of the Eastern District of Louisiana.
The Chairman. I am sorry. I knew that. In my reference to that
decision, I meant to say that that decision was rendered by a three-
judge court, as it is technically called, composed of Judge John M.
Wisdom of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and District Judges
Herbert Christenberry of New Orleans and District Judge Robert
Ainsworth of New Orleans in the Eastern District of Louisiana. The
decision was written by Judge Wisdom as a Fifth Circuit Court of
Appeals Judge.
Mr. Appell, Mr. Christmas, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Christmas. June 18, 1917, Meridian, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Christmas. Amite, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Do you have a street ?
Mr. Christmas. 414 North Duncan Avenue.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, are you appearing before the commit-
tee today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on Octo-
ber 26, 1965, at the Brumfield Motor Company in Amite, Louisiana ?
Mr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you employed by the Brumfield Motor Company ?
Mr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, under the conditions of the subpena
you were directed to produce certain documents called for in an
attachment w^hich was made a part of the subpena. Paragraph 1
calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and affiliated organizations, namely, Louisiana
Rescue Servic-e and the Anti-Communist Christian Association in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as Grand
Dragon of the 6th Congressional District of the Invisible Empire, United Klans,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans
of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Ingram. Just a moment.
Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that yesterday after meeting
with Mr. Appell on this matter, and by telephone conversations with
Mr. McNamara, the staff director of this committee, back in November,
when these men were originally scheduled to appear, and quite
recently, that I advised Mr. McNa,mara and yesterday Mr. Appell, that
all the records asked for in paragraph 1 of the subpena duces tecum
issued to Mr. Christmas and the other defendants who were also named
as individual defendants in the injunction sought under the Civil
Rights Act in New Orleans, which was tried early in September, that
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 8
2440 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
all of this literature was in the court record as evidence and in the
possession of the clerk of courts in New Orleans and also in the
hands of the Justice Department, to whom it was turned over person-
ally by me at the commencement of that trial in Xew Orleans.
I called the staff director back in November specifically for this
purpose, because at that time I was advised all of it had been turned
over and I wanted to know from the staff director if he wanted me to
obtain a court order authorizing the release of this information so
that it could be brought here to the committee today, and he said that
he would obtain a ruling from the chairman.
I was later advised it would suffice, not to obtain this court order if
this information had been in the record.
I might also point out that these gentlemen were served with a
subpena duces tecum in that case which, although I do not have a copy
of it here today, I am well familiar with it since myself and my two
law partners represented most of these men in that case in New
Orleans; that that subpena issued by the Justice Department was
more encompassing and broader than the subpena is here today, and I
would like a clarification before we proceed.
The Chairman. Here is Mr. McNamara of the committee. Would
you relate your understanding? I don't think it is necessary to be
sworn unless contradictions develop.
Mr. McNamara. I would like to qualify one statement made by Mr.
Ingram. I think it is no more than a misunderstanding. You did, as
you say, call me on several occasions in regard to the subpenas and
documents called for by the committee. You did not state to me, ho^^ -
ever, that all of the documents called for by the subpena had been
placed in the court — had been turned over to the court.
You did tell me that same of them had been. I informed you that
any documents which had been given to the court the committee
could obtain from the court and that your witness and client would
not be required to produce those, but if he had any materials that had
not been turned over to the court, we would expect that they be
produced.
'The Chairman. Mr. Ingram, I understood you to say that the
court's subpena was broader than the committee subpena.
Mr. Ingram. Yes.
The Chairman. That would be your answer unless there are further
points of disagreement ?
Mr. McNamara. Mr. Ingram perhaps forgot to mention to me that
everything was turned over. You did not say that. You just told
me some of these documents had been turned over, but you did not
say all.
The Chairman. And you say, Mr. McNamara, that whatever docu-
ments were turned over in response to the court's subpena would not
have to be produced here.
Mr. McNamara. That is correct.
The Chairman. Now, what is your position on that? Is it your
position that of necessity everything called for was produced because
the Federal subpena was broader than our subpena?
Mr. Ingram. Yes, Mr. Chairman, and in addition to that, after the
trial was commenced, if a transcript of that trial is present here, I am
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2441
sure that will bear this out : The defendants were required to produce
additional material during the course of the trial. From specific
memory, I do know that certain membership lists were turned over, the
Various charters and articles of incorporation of the Anti-Communist
Christian Association, a copy of the constitution of the Ku Klux Klan
was admited; various pamphlets and brochures allegedly, purportedly
put out by the Klan were introduced. Many of them were like what
Mr. Blumberg testified to today, handbills — not only were these asked
for in the Federal subpena of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan and any other Klan organization, but the Anti-Communist
Christian Association, the Bogalusa Rifle Club, the United Conserva-
tives, the Minutemen, and I think there were two or three other
organizations which I can't remember now, l>ecause I don't have a
copy of that subpena.
The Chairman. Now, Mr. Appell, will you relate — as I see it, there
is practically no serious disagreement. AVliat do you have to say,
Mr. Appell?
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ingram advised me all the documents in the hands
of his clients had been turned over not to the court, but to the U.S.
attorney handling the case. He assumed that all of those documents
were put in evidence, and we reviewed the exhibits filed in the case,
and I advised him we had obtained from the court records those ex-
hibits which were of interest to us in our inquiry; that we did not
know that the Government attorney had in his possession documents
turned over by his clients which were not made a part of the record;
and, however, if his clients had no records they would not be required
to produce something that they did not have, but that his clients would
be asked this morning to produce documents called for in the record
so that this record would show, as the court records showed, that these
documents were destroyed and that they were not in the possession of
any of his clients. This is the reason the questions are being pro-
pounded.
Mr. Pool. Are you now asking him that question ?
Mr. Appell. I am asking for the production of documents.
The Chairman. Be specific about what you want produced at this
time so that we can proceed and see where we are.
I don't have a general picture of any points of disagreement, if
any exist.
(Discussion off the record.)
The Chairman. I think the best thing to do is for Mr. Appell to
pose such questions as he has in mind, and then Mr. Christmas has his
attorney here and he was, as I understand it, the attorney in that suit
and as we proceed we can see wliat position we go on.
Mr. Appell. I would like to say, Mr. Christmas, to you, first, that
through your counsel it was expressed that the subpena of the court
was broader than the committee's subpena. I would like to ask you,
through your counsel : Does the duces tecum part of paragraph 1 en-
compass all documents, records, correspondence, and memorandum
covered by the subpena of the court ?
Mr. Ingram. Mr. Appell, you are talking about paragraph 1 ?
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 1.
Mr. Ingram. All the records asked for were turned over to the Fed-
eral court.
2442 ACTIVITIES OF KIT KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Did the Federal court records call for the production
of correspondence, memorandums, and other documents relating to the
I"''nited Klans of America ?
Mr. Christmas. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness produce the docu-
ments called for in paragraph 1.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to produce the records asked
for in paragraph 1 on the grounds it rtiight incriminate me and on the
further grounds it would violate my rights as guaranteed under the
1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United
States.
The Chairman. Mr. Ingram, you made a statement a while ago to
the effect — as I understood it — your client didn't have these docu-
ments because they, and more of them in view of the breadth of the
Federal subpena referred to, had been submitted to, and filed with,
either the court or clerk or someone in that litigation.
Now, there appears to be quite a problem here, and I must tell you
that we have asked these questions of your client and you advised
him what to do.
What is the pending question ?
In other words, we want this record complete within itself and we
want answers to these questions under oath. It is not a question of
not taking anybody's word, but we have to proceed in the usual way
and have you under the rules of the committee — which are in print —
take the part of an attorney for your client in these hearings.
Specifically, our printed rules provide :
At every hearing, public or executive, every witness shall be accorded the
privilege of having counsel of his own choosing.
The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while the
witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal
rights. Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the
Committee, but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client.
Let me say, Mr. Ingram, this is absolutely no questioning of your
integrity or your word or your motives, but in view of conversations
I have had with the staff, I think the only thing we can do, and must
do, is to proceed in our way to have your client under oath answer
these questions, because we have reasons to believe that that would
be the best way.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Ingram's explanation previously was not sworn to.
The Chairman. That is true. I am trying to act as one laAvyer to
another here, and not question his motives, but I think the thing to
do is to follow the rules of the committee, because matters discussed
with me not within the hearing of the witness or his attorney force
me to take the position I am now taking.
Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, are the representations of your counsel
with respect to the production of all documents in the court factual?
Mr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Appell. In answer to that then, I must ask you : Is it true then
that you have no records in your possession relating to the organiza-
tions called for in the subpena ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer your question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2443
The Chairman. I missed them. What constitutional amendments
did you rely on ?
Mr. Christmas. 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th.
The Chairman. All ri^ht.
Mr. Christmas, this subpena duces tecum calling for the production
of those documents was served upon you in the representative capacity
stated in that subpena. In other words, if you were in the hearing
room yesterday, you heard me say it before; there is a distinction
between calling on an individual as an individual to produce his
records in an income tax return, and a subpena on someone in a repre-
sentative capacity, whether it is a corporation or organization of any
kind.
We do not accept your invocation of the constitutional privileges you
rely on, and we take that position from the point of view of our con-
struction of court decisions. Therefore, I order and direct you to
produce those documents.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline and refuse to produce these
documents under the constitutional privileges previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was your testimony given before the three-judge
court in New Orleans that records of the organizations mentioned
had been destroyed after the initiation of the actual injunction pro-
ceeding truthful ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
The Chairjnian. In view of counsel's statement that all documents
in his possession had been submitted, and more, under the Federal
subpena, and this development — which I didn't know — from the ques-
tions of Mr. Appell that you said and swore and admitt-ed before that
court that certain documents called for had been destroyed, I order
and direct you to produce those documents — I mean to answer the
question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, may I interject-^something as a pos-
sible clarification ? As I recall counsel's statement, he stated that his
client was under compulsion of a subpena duces tecum to produce docu-
ments which was broader than our subpena, and he stated he w^ould
undertake to obtain those documents w^hich had been submitted to the
Federal court in Louisiana, either to the clerk or the U.S. attorney's
office.
I don't recall whether counsel stated, as a representation on behalf
of his client, that all documents in this witness' possession had been
submitted according to that subpena, and I think there may be a
hiatus in here.
The Chairman. I am glad that you made that statement.
Counsel said at one point in the discussion that he had offered to
get a court order to produce for us whatever had been admitted in
the court record.
Now, as I see it, at this time, it would seem what counsel had in
mind was to make available to us the documents that had been offered
and to forget about — deprive us of the right to develop that, in the
course of this trial, there was evidence to the effect that some of them
had been destroyed, and we are interested in that destruction. So I
direct you to answer that question.
2444 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, paragraph 2 of the subpena called for
you to produce:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
present or past member and/or oflBcer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and re-
quire to be maintained by you and any other oflBcer of said organization, the same
being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully refuse to produce the documents
under the constitutional amendments previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I ask that he be directed to produce the
documents.
The Chairman. Yes, for the reasons I previously explained, I order
and direct you to produce the documents.
I might say that if — and I stress that word — you have turned
over to the court in New Orleans all records and documents called
for in the first paragraph and the second paragraph of our subpena,
all you have to do is to state that and you will not be expected to turn
them over to us here now, so that you do not really have a right to
invoke the fifth amendment or any other amendments.
Again for the reasons previously stated — and those I just stated —
I order and direct you to produce the documents.
Mr. Christmas. May we have a short recess ?
The Chairman. Surely.
We will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
The Chairman. We will reconvene at 2 p.m.
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Willis, Pool, Weltner, and Buchanan.)
("WTiereupon, at 12 :30 p.m., Wednesday, January 5, 1966, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 5, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Buchanan.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order and we will
resume the testimony of Mr. Christmas.
You have already been sworn, sir, so have a seat and Mr. Appell
will proceed.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES HORTON CHRISTMAS— Resumed
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, the reporter does not have the exact
point we left off prior to the luncheon recess so I will ask you, when
were documents, records, and memoranda in your possession de-
stroyed as you testified in the Federal court, the three- judge court in
New Orleans?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2445
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did you testify in the Federal court?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did you or anyone testify before the Federal court,
or was any reference made before those Federal judges, that at any
time documents had been destroyed ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, is it factual that the documents were
destroyed following the release of the leaflet published by the Original
Ku Klux Klan which welcomed the investigation of the Klan?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Christmas, it is my general information — and
you can correct it if it is not so — that the documents we are talking
about that were destroyed were, in fact, destroyed after the injunc-
tion suit had beeii filed and after this committee announced on March
30, 1965, that it would hold hearings on the Ku Klux Klan organiza-
tions in the United States. Is that not true ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. A witness testified yesterday, in connection with
the destruction by fire of documents, that the reason for their destruc-
tion was fear of the enemy, which he nebulously referred to as the
Communists. Was that the reason why these documents were de-
stroyed ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Is it not a fact that the documents which were
destroyed — which, as I have said, took place after the filing of
the injmiction suit and after the announcement of our hearings and
after the amiouncement in the press that we were subpenaing numer-
ous witnesses — based on that I ask you this question :
Is it not a fact that one of the reasons for their destruction was
fear that they would be subpenaed and would have to be produced
both, or either, in the Federal court or before this committee ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr, Christmas, does the refusal on your part to produce
documents called for in paragraph 1 and paragraph 2 — is the reason
for the refusal based upon the fact that since your appearance on
September 8, 1965, before the three-judge court in Louisiana and the
date that you were served with a subpena by the Committee on Un-
American Activities, that books, documents, records, correspondence,
and other memoranda did come into your possession ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, I hand you a copy of a document, the
front cover of which shows a cross and the title, the "Knights of the
2446 ACTWITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ku Kliix Klan Since 1866," and page 2 showinof the "Konstitntion of
the Original Ku Khix Khm Reahn of Louisiana,"' and I ask if this
is a copy of the document you presented to the court ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 2.")
The Chairman. Let the reporter note that documents that Avere
commented on and questioned on by either this witness or other wit-
nesses previously appearing should be inserted in the transcript of
the proceedings at the respective points where the several witnesses
were questioned.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, I would like to quote to you from the
opinion of the three-judge court (Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2) :
The Grand Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan anrl Presi-
dent of the Anti-Communist Christian Association is Charles Christmas of Amite
in Tangipahoa Parish. * * *
Is that factual, sir ?
Mr. CiiRiSTiviAS. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I think we have a right to take judicial notice of
the accuracy of the statement in the Federal court, unless you testify
to the contrary.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Christmas, when did you become a member of the
Original Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated .
Mr. Appell. Li November 1964 were you a coordinator or organizer
in the Sixth Congressional District or Sixth Province of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In early 1965 did the bulk of the Klan members of
the Sixth Congressional District sever their relationship with the par-
ent organization and become an independent group ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, it was testified to in the three- judge
court injunction proceeding that, in order for a person to become a
member of the Anti-Communist Christian Association, that the mem-
ber would give to the Klavern secretary the number by which he was
known as a member of the Klavern and the secretary would then issue
him a card in the Anti-Communist Christian Association. Is that
testimony that was given in that case actual ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Let me say again that, just as in the previous in-
stance and in other instances that might come up, unless and until
there is evidence to the contrary this committee is going to assume the
accuracy of statements given in court and sworn testimony given in
court.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, after the organization of the Sixth Con-
gressional District of the Klan became independent, were you elected
to the position of Grand Dragon ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2447
Mr. CHRTST:\rAS. I respoctfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Under the constitution the number two man to the
Grand Dragon is the Grand Titan. Did Saxon Farmer hold the posi-
tion of Grand Titan of the Klan ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Who held the position of grand klokard ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In February 1965 did you attend a meeting near Amite,
Louisiana, in which there was discussed the possibility of uniting the
four factions again under one head ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer on the consti-
tutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, are you familiar with the organiza-
tional procedure in the Original Knights whereby the exalted cyclops
of Klaverns was to see to it that each Klavern would have a body
of men known as the wrecking crew ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did your Klan group in the Bogalusa area create as
an instrumentality within the Klan a boycott committee?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, I will read to you from the opinion of
the court a description of the boycott committee and its responsibili-
ties :
"The Boycott Committee (one member from each local unit appointed by
the Exalted Cyclops) shall have exclusive investigative authority and it shall
not act at any time with less than three members present. . . .
(1) No person or subject upon whom a boycott shall have been placed shall
be patronized by any member. . . . Boycotts shall be imposed upon subjects
who are found to be violating the Southern traditions. . . .
Boycotts shall be placed upon all members of the Committee who publicly
served with Bascom Talley in his efforts to promote the Brooks Hays meeting.
Boycotts shall be placed upon any merchant using Negro employees to serv^e
or wait ui)on persons of the white race. (Service Stations using Negroes to
pump gas are excluded. )
Boycotts shall be placed against a subject who serves Negroes and whites
on an integrated basis.
Boycotts shall be placed upon a subject who allows Negroes to use White
rest rooms. . . .
No member shall be punished for violation of the rules by a member of his
family under twelve (12) years of age.
Any member who shall after a hearing have been found guilty of personally
patronizing a subject listed on the boycott list shall be wrecked lyy the ivreek-
ing crew who shall be appointed by the Committee. (Emphasis added.) . . .
Second offense — If a member is found guilty of personally violating the boycott
list he shall be wrecked and banished from the Klan."
Mr. Christmas, would you explain to the committee the reasons and
necessity for the appointment of a boycott committee?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was Marvin Foster'the chairman of the boycott com-
mittee?
2448 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional g:rounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, as Grand Dragon of the Klan and
as president of the Anti-Communist Christian Association, can you
tell us under what arrangements and how it came about that Marvin
Foster was appointed a personal liaison man between the Klan and
the city administration ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previousl}^ stated.
Mr. Appell. Mayor Cutrer testified at the trial in Louisiana that
it was Marvin Foster who suggested that he attend the meeting of the
Klan held at the Disabled American Veterans' Hall. Was his testi-
mony truthful?
Mr. Christmas I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. xVppell. Mr. Christmas, I show you five leaflets, four of which
proclaim that they were published by the Original Ku Klux Klan of
Louisiana and one signed merely "The K.K.K." and I ask you who
was the author of these leaflets ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Two of said documents previously marked "Ralph Blumberg Ex-
hibits Nos. 1 and 3," respectively. See pp. 2454, 2455. Three marked
"Charles Christmas Exhibits Nos. 1-A through 1-C." See pp. 2456-
2458.)
Mr. Appell. Was Dewey Smith the author ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Do you intend to give this committee anv information
at all?
Mr. Christmas. I decline to answer that question on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, as the leader of the Klan in Bogalusa
did you know Albert Applewhite to be the exalted cyclops of Unit 4
in Bogalusa?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. He was an auxiliary policeman. Was he and some 17
other Klansmen sworn out of the Klan so they could deny Klan
membership in order to remain in the auxiliary police force?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, as a leader of the Klan, did you know
William Houston (popularly known as Jack) Burke to be the EC of
a Klan unit ?
The Chairman. By "EC" you mean exalted cyclops?
Mr. Appell. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, in January 1965 did he head a com-
mittee comprised of the exalted cyclops of the Klaverns in the Sixth
Congressional District area?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2449
Mr. Appell. Prior to your takinjcj over leadership of the Klan, was
Saxon Farmer the head of the Khm in the Sixth Congressional
District?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. At a meeting of the Klan, was it agreed that if Saxon
Farmer should be arrested you would take over ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a leader of the Klan did you know James M. Ellis,
Jr., to be the exalted cyclops of Unit No. 2?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional groui,ids previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know Howard M. Lee, the gun dealer, to be
the exalted cyclops of the Mitch Community Klavem unit?
Mr. Christivias. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Is that the man who was charged and convicted of
having violated the Federal law dealing with the sale of guns and
firearms ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Did you know D. D. McElveen to be a member of the Klan in the
Bogalusa area?
Mr. ChristjVias. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know him to be a member of the wrecking
crew ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a leader of the Klan did you know Eussell E.
Magee to be in August 1964 kleagle for the Franklinton unit of the
Klan?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In September 1964 did you know him to be a leader of
the Klan in the Sixth Congressional District?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know Kinch Miley to be a member of the
Klan?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a leader of the Klan did you know Eric Peterson
of Sun, Louisiana, to be at one time the exalted cyclops of the Klan
unit in Bush, Louisiana?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a leader of the Klan did you know Dewey Bernard
Smith to have been at one time the exalted cyclops of Unit 1 and at
another time the exalted cyclops of LTnit No. 2 ?
Mr. CHnisT:MAs. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
2450 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appeil. Mr. Christmas, I shall now read to you specific find-
ings of Klan intimidation and violence as found by the three-judge
court in New Orleans, in which the court, found and in substance which
you and the other defendants agreed to as having taken place:
(2) Since at least January 28, 1965, the defendants, including Saxon Farmer,
Russell Magee, Dewey Smith, Randle C. Pounds, BiUy Alford, Charles McClen-
don, James Burke, and other members of the defendant Klan, have made a
practice of going to places where they anticipated that Negroes would attempt
to exercise civil rights, in order to harass, threaten, and intimidate the Negroes
iind other persons. For this purpose, members of the defendant Klan have gone
to Franklinton, Louisiana, when Negro citizens of Washington Parish were ex-
pected to apply to register as voters, have gone to restaurants in Bogalusa when
Negroes were seeking or were expected to seek service, and have gone to loca-
tions in downtown Bogalusa and near the Bogalusa Labor Temple when Negroes
were attempting or were expected to demonstrate publicly in support of equal
rights for Negroes.
(3) William Yates and Stephen Miller, two CORE workers, came to Bogalusa
in January 1965. The Grand Dragon and Grand Titan of the Klan. defendants
Charles ciiristmas and Saxon Farmer, appeared at the Mayor's office to ask the
Mayor to send William Yates and Stephen Miller out of Boglusa. Mayor Cutrer
indicated that he could do nothing. The next day, February 3, 1965, three Klans-
men, James Hollingsworth, Jr., James Hollingsworth, Sr., and Delos Williams,
with two other persons, Doyle Tynes and Ira Dunaway, attempted to insure
Yates' and Miller's departure. This group followed Yates and Miller and as-
saulted Yates.
(4) February 15, 1965, defendant Virgil Corkern, Klansman, and approxi-
mately 30 other white persons attacked five Negro citizens and damaged the
car in which they w^ere riding. This occurred because the Negroes had sought
sen'ice at a gasoline station in Bogalusa. On that same day. Corkern and other
persons gathered at Landry's Fine Foods, a restaurant in Bogalusa, to observe
Negroes seeking service at the restaurant. Corkern and one other entered the
restaurant brandishing clubs, ordered the Negroes to leave and threatened to
kill Sam Barnes, a member of the Bogalusa Voters League, who had come to the
restaurant with six Negro women.
(5) March 29. 1965, defendants Hardie Adrian Goings, Jr., Klansman, and
PYanklin Harris, Klansman, shortly after meetings had been held at the Bogalusa
Labor Temple, threw an ignited tear gas canister at a group of Negroes stand-
ing near the Labor Temple. Goings, Jr. then tried to disguise his car by repaint-
ing it and removing the air scoop from the top to prevent detection of this crime.
Goings or other Klansmen used this same car in May of 1964 to burn a cross
at the home of Lou Major, editor of the Bogalusa newspaper.
(6) April 7, 1965, defendants Lattimore McNeese and E. J. (Jack) Dixon,
Klansman, threatened Negro citizens during the ■course of a meeting at the
Labor Temple bj brandishing and exhibiting a gun at Negroes standing outside
the Labor Temple.
(7) April 9, 1965, defendants Billy Alford, Klansman. Randle C. Pounds.
Klansman, Lattimore McNeese, Charles McClendon, and James Burke, Klans-
man, with other i>ersons, went to the downtown area of Bogalusa where Negro
citizens were participating in a march to the Bogalusa City Hall to protest
denial of equal rights. Pounds, McClendon, and Burke, in a group, moved out to
attack the marchers. Pounds assaulted the leader of the march, James Farmer,
with a blackjack; McClendon and Burke were temporarily deterred from the
threat^'ued assault, but immediately thereafter assaulted a newsman and an FBI
agent. Alford assaulted one of the Negroes participating in the march.
(8) May 19, 1965, Virgil Corkern, Klansman, two sons of Virgil Corkern, and
other white persons went to Cassidy Park, a public recreation area maintained
by the City of Bogalusa, for the purpose of interfering with the enjoyment of
the park by Negroes and white CORE workers who were present at the park
and using the facilities for the first time on a non-segregated basis. The Corkern
group entered the park and dispersed the Negro citizens with clubs, belts, and
other weapons.
.(9) Negro members of the Bogalusa Voters League, unable to exercise their
civil rights and also unable to obtain from police oflicials adequate protection
from the Klan. filed suit June 25, 1965, in the case of Hk-ks v. Knight, Civ. Ac.
No. 15, 727 in this Ck)urt. The complaint asks for an injunction requiring of-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2451
ficers of the City of Bogalusa to open the public parlis and to operate such parks
without racial discrimination, and also i-equiring law enforcement officers of
the City, Parish, and State to protect the Negro plaintiffs and oth(>r Negroes from
physical assaults, beatings, harassment, and intimidation at the hands of white
citizens. July 10. 19(35, this Court issued an injunction in Hickfi v. Knight en-
joining certain city and parish law enforcement officers from failing to use all
reasonable means to protect the Negro plaintiffs and others similarly situated
from physical assaults and beatings and from harassment and intimidation pre-
venting or discouraging the exercise of their i-ights to picket, assemble i^eace-
ably. and advocate equal civil rights for Negroes. The preliminary injunction
is still in full force and effect. Plven after this Court issued its order July 10,
1965, the defendant Klansmen continued to interfere with Negro citizens exercis-
ing civil rights and interfered with i)erformance of the duties of law enforcement
otficials under the injunction in Hicks v. Knight.
(10) July 11, 1965, during a Negro march in downtown Bogalusa, defendants
Randle Pounds, Klansmau. H. A. Goings, Jr., Klansman, Franklin Harris, Klans-
man, and Milton E. Parker were present. Harris and Goings passed out 25-30
2x2 clubs to youths and Pounds stationed the youths along the march route.
Parker was arrested by a City policeman along the route of march for disburbing
[sic] the peace.
(11) Included in the exhibits are a number of handbills bearing the caption,
"Published by the Original Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana". These are crude,
scurrilous attacks on certain Bogalusa citizens who advocated a moderate ap-
proach to desegregation. For example, in one handbill an Episcopal minister is
accused of lying for having said that he had received calls threatening to bomb
his church ; the minister's son is said to be an alcoholic, to have faced a morals
charge in court, and to have been committed to a mental institution. The hand-
bill adds :
"The Ku Klux Klan is now in the process of checking on Reverend
's [naming him] moral standards. If he is cleared you
will be so informed. If he is not cleared, you will be informed of any
and all misdeeds or moral violation of his in the past."
In the same handbill the Klan announced that it was "boycotting businesses
which cater to integration such as Mobile Gas Stations, etc." Mobile Gas Sta-
tion is a business competitor of the defendant. Grand Titan Saxon Farmer.
All of the handbills attempt to intimidate public officials, the Governor of
Louisiana, the Congressman from the Sixth District, the Mayor of Bogalusa,
and federal judges (by name). Sometimes the attempted intimidation is by
threat of violence, sometimes by character assassination. We quote, for ex-
ample :
The Court then quotes from one of the liandbills which I shall not
read in full but after talking about the conduct of public officials there
is contained this language :
"All these should be tarred and feathered :
MAYOR JESSIE CUTRER, REPRESENTATIVE SHERIDAN, SENATOR
SIXTY RAYBORN, SHERIFF DORMAN CROWE, CONGRESSMAN JIMMY
MORRISON, GOVERNOR JOHN McKEITHEN, SENATOR RUSSELL LONG"
Mr. Christmas are there any expressions of this finding of the court
which I have read to you to which you would like to take exception or
comment upon ?
Mr, Christmas. I respectfully refuse to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Then let me have this word to say, I think, to com-
plete the record, and the whole o])inion will be printed as part of the
record. (Previously marked "Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2." See
pp. '2475-2519.)
Mr. Christmas, you were one of the defendants in that case. I state
that as a matter of fact. The court in that statement^ — and this is
general language — said: "An unusual feature of this litigation is the
defendants' damning admissions. * * *''
The court proceeded :
2452 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
In deciding to grant the injunction prayed for, we rest our conclusions on the
finding of fact that, within the meaning of the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and 1964,
the defendants have adopted a pattern and practice of intimidating, threatening,
and coercing Negro citizens in Washington Parish * * *.
Proceeding further :
We find that to attain its ends the klan exploits the forces of hate, prejudice,
and ignorance. We find that the klan relies on systematic economic coercion,
varieties of intimidation, and physical violence in attempting to frustrate the
national policy expressed in civil rights legislation. * * *
Further on, the court says, based on admissions in the pleadings and
sworn testimony — and you were one of the people they were talking
about :
Wrapped in myths and misbeliefs which they think relieve them of the obliga-
tions of ordinary citizens, Klansmen pledge their first allegiance to their Kon-
stitution and give their first loyalty to a cross in flames.
Further findings of fact include — and I will give you an opportu-
nity to explain :
None of the defendant Klansmen is a leader in his community. As a group,
they do not appear to be representative of a cross-section of the community.
Instead they appear to be ignorant bullies, callous of the harm they know they
are doing and lacking in sufficient understanding to comprehend the chasm be-
tween their own twisted Konstitution and the noble charter of liberties under
law that is the American Constitution.
And finally, the court in its holding says :
Legal tolerance of secret societies must cease at the point where their mem-
bers assume supra-governmental powers and take the law in their own hands.
We shall not allow the misguided defendants to interfere with the rights of
Negro citizens deprived from or protected by the Constitution of the United
States and now expressly recognized by Congress in various Civil Rights
statutes.
And then, finally :
We enjoin the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, its dummy front, the
Anti-Communist Christian Association, and the individual defendants from inter-
fering with orders of this Court * * *.
and so on.
Now, I ask you, and I mean it sincerely, do you wish an opportunity
to affirm, deny, explain, or exculpate yourself as a defendant in these
proceedings before the three-judge court of any of the findings of fact
based upon damning admissions in the pleadings before the court and
sworn testimony. Would you care to take advantage of that offer 1
now make ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I must say to you that, unless and until you or
someone else party to these proceedings appear and give credible
evidence and testimony to the contrary, tins committee, as it must,
will assume to be true the statement by the court under the circum-
stances I have indicated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Christmas, I have one last question to ask of you,
sir, and this goes directly to the sincerity of the Klan.
The leaflet which was quoted this morning, a leaflet, according to
the masthead, published by the Original Ku Klux Klan of I^uisiana,
the one in which the reference is made to the Reverend Shepherd's
moral standards, in which there are these two sentences :
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2453
"Much has been printed about the Kn Klnx Khm beinc; a violent
organization. This is not true." (Ralph Bluniberg Exhibit No. 3)
Now I put it to you as a fact, Mr. Christmas, and ask you to affirm
or deny the fact, that during your testimony or the testimony of Mr.
Farmer it was testified that the reason you adopted the organization,
the Anti-Communist Christian Association, was that the members of
the Klan felt that the Klan was too violent, that they felt there Avas
no need for the KBI, and that they felt that there w^as no need for
wrecking crews. I ask you, is it not a fact that your testimony in
the trial or testimony of Mr. Farmer is a direct contradiction of the
two sentences I read to you from this leaflet which you distributed
in Bogalusa in hopes that the people there would believe it ?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. One other thing, Mr. Christmas : With respect to Mr.
Shepherd, the Reverend Shepherd, you say — this leaflet says :
The Ku Klux Klan is now in the process of checking on Reverend Shepherd's
moral standards. If he is cleared you will be so informed. If he is not cleared,
you will be informed of any and all misdeeds or moral violations of his in the
past.
The inference is that the Reverend Bruce Shepherd has been en-
gaged in moral indiscretions. You leave this impression with the peo-
ple. Have you ever determined whether he has been involved so that
you can erase the harm that you did to the man, or have you docu-
mented that there was anything to support the malicious inferences
contained in this leaflet?
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. No further questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Weltner.
Mr. Weltner. I have just one reflection on the same leaflet that Mr.
Appell referred to, showing at the top "Published by the Original
Ku Klux Klan of T^uisiana." It contains two sentences as follows :
Congressman Charles Weltner of Atlanta, Georgia, a member of the House
Committee of Unamerican Activities has proposed that committee investigate
the Klan.
Later on its says :
The Original Ku Klux Klan invites any investigation that Congressman
Weltner should like to make.
I would inform the Al|tness that the investigation now^ pending is an
investigation that had been proposed by myself and other members
of this committee and adopted by this committee unanimously. I
would like to ask what has transpired since the publication of this
document welcoming this investigation and the present day that has
caused you and your colleagues to refuse to respond to any inquiries
of the committee.
Mr. Christmas. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional gi'ounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. No further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
(Ralph Blumberg Exhibits Nos. 1 and 3, introduced on pp. 2421 and
2430, respectively, and Charles Christmas Exhibits Nos. 1-A through
1-C, introduced on p. 2448, follow :)
2454 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 1
P-/^(^
PUBLISHED BY THE ORIGINAL KU KLUX KLAN
OF LOUISIANA
On Sunday, December 27, 1964, the Bogalusa Daily News announced that a "renowned
layman" Brooks Hayes, is to speak in Bogalusa, on January 7, 1965. His subject will be better
community relations. The Bogalusa Daily News stated,
" a group of civic, religious and business leaders of Bogalusa have invited Hayes to
speak her^at the St. Matthew's Episcopal Church Parish House. Due to limited seat-
ing facilities, the meeting will be by invitation."
The Daily News did not tell you the whole true story concering this meeting and it is
the purpose of this leaflet to give you the full story concerning this meeting.
In the first place, this meeting of January 7, 1965, is to be an intergraled meeting. The
meeting was arranged by Bascom D. Talley, Jr. , the local public or community relations comm-
issioner who is holding this job by appointment of Lyndon B. Johnson under the infamous civil rights
act. Bascom D. Talley formed a committee to help shoulder the responsibility of this meeting. This
committee of intergration minded people are the group of "civic, religious and business leaders"
referred to by the Daily News. Mr. Talley's committee is composed of Bruce H. Shepherd, Minister
of the St. Matthew's Episcopal Church, Vertrees Young, a member of the Episcopal Church, Reverend
Jerry Chance, Minister of the Main Street Baptist Church, Reverend Paul G. Gillespie, Minister of
the Memorial Baptist Church, Reverend James T. Harris, Minister of the Methodist Church, Reverend
Bob Lambright whose similar escapades have made him a Minister without a church, Ralph Blumberg,
owner and operator of the radio station WBOX, and, of course, Lou Major, Mr. Talley's favorite puppet.
In the second place, this intergrated meeting is for the sole purpose of planning the inter-
gration of your Church, Schools, Businesses, Restaurants, Hotels, Motels, etc, and those who will re-
ceive invitations to the January 7th. meeting will be people whoBascom D. Talley hopes that Brooks
Hayes can convince that they should change their social and religious lives, and that in turn will try to
convince you that vou should help intergration by sitting in Church with the black man, hiring more of
them in your businesses, serving and eating with them in your cafes, and allowing your children to
sit by filty, runny-nosed, ragged, ugly little niggers in your public schools.
In the third place, the Bogalusa Daily News did not tell you the whole story about Brooks
Hayes. He is a traitor to the South. He assisted Sherman Adams draw the order to send Federal Troops
into his own State of .Arkansas to put nine little niggers into white schools, the result of which was spen-
ding $5, 000, 000 of the taxpayers money as well as the beating and jailing of hundreds of white citizens.
As a result of Hayes' intergration efforts, he was defeated in his efforts for re-election to Congress
by a political unknown, Dr. Dale Alford. Brooks Hayes is now a member of the Civil Rights Community
Relations Committee and he is paid a lucrative salary by the Federal Government to make talks such
as he is scheduled to make in Bogalusa, on January 7th., 1965.
^ The Ku Kjux Klan is strongly organized in Bogalusa and throughout Washington and Si. Tam-
many Parishes. Being a secret organization, we have KLAN members in every conceivable business
in this area. We will k;iow the names of all who are invited to the Brooks Hayes meeting and we will
know who did and did not attend this meeting. Accordingly, we take this means to urge all of you to re- .
frain from attending this meeting. Those who do attend this meeting will be tagged as intergrationists
and will be delt with accordingly by the Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN. L
There is in Bogalusa a man named Talley,
who with a hand picked commiltoe has planned an intergrated rally;
This man would love the nigger,
in order to grow financially bigger;
Me and his committee ha,ve come up with an intergration plan,
wiiich ..s bitterly opposed by the KU KLUX KLAN;
Talk;.- h.is attended Nigger Churches to hing,
this was done to please Martin Luther King;
WT.ile Talley sings with his nigger group,
the KU KLUX KLAN will more Knights recruit;
Soon Talley and his committee will loiow who is boss,
as the KU KLUX KLAN lights the fiery cross.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2455
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 3
*»***«**•*•*****• PUBLISHED BY THE ORIGINAL KU KLUX KLAN OF LOUISUNA •*♦»♦»•»♦»••*♦•»*
Ab a result of the statement issued In the Bogalusa Daily News, signed by Bascom D. Talley,
Jr. , Bruce Shepherd, Paul Gillespie, Jerry Chance, Ralph Blumberg and Lou Major announcing
the cancellation of the invitational, integrated, speaking engagement in this city by Brooks Hays,
our City, as well as the Klan, received unfair, biased, national publicity from television and news-
pai»ers throughout the country. The national news media quoted Bascom Talley as saying thai
Bogalusa has a "leadership vacuum". They quoted Bruce Shepherd as saying "Bogalusa has a high
rate of alcoholism and mental illness". The national press even misquoted Brooks Hays who was
supposed to have said "Bogalusa is a city in the grips of the Ku Klux Klan. " Even one magazine
contained an article entitled "Klan Town U.S.A. " which accused Bogalusa of l)t>ing dominated by
ih. Ku Klux Klan. This article was written by a free lance, alcoholic reporter Paul Good, who
S|).Mit over $110.00 on alcoholic beverages, who wrecked his car, and who was charged with reck-
less driving during his short visit to Bogalusa.
Bruce Shepherd was quoted as saying that he had receivedcalls threatening to Ijomb his church
if Brooks Hays were allowed to speak there. We accuse Bruce Shepherd of lying. There was no
such threat or threats made and we challenge Bruce Shepherd to prove tiiat he made such a report
to tlie police.
Bruc'' Shepherd must have had his family in mind rather than our cil> when he stated we had
a high rate of alcoholism and mental illness because Bruce Shepherd himself caji be observed fre-
quently emerging from the Cuban Liquor Company with an arm load of liquor. We further would
have you know that Bruce Shepherd's son recently faced a charge in court fur morals violation and
was committed lo a mental institution.
The Kb Kij.. Khin is now in the process of checking on Reverend ShephiTd's moral standards.
If he is cleared you will be so informed. If he is noi cleared, you will be mformtd of any and all
misdeeds oi moral violations of his in the past.
Much has been printed about the Ku KJu.\ Klan being a violent organization. This is not true.
There was no violence when public accommodations were tested in this city and there has been no
violertce since then. We, however, have formed a large block white vote which will more than
offset any other block vote in this entire parish. We also are boycotting businesses which cater
to integration such as Mobile Gas Stations, Radio Station W. B. O. X. , Roscnblum's, Zesto and the
Barlxjcue Inn. The Bogalusa Daily News is also being t)oycotted by the Klan because while the
National press was tearing Bogalusa into shreds, it did not print one single word in the defense of
Bogalusa. The theory behind boycotting the Daily News and these other businesses is that to finan-
cially aid such business institutions is comparable to buying bullets for a man as .John DiUeiiger
who would take the bullets and then kill you and rob your city.
Congressman Charles Weltner of Atlanta, Georgia, a member of the House Comniittec of
Unamericai] .\i.ii\ities has proposed that committee investigate the Klan. We wonder vhy he
doesii't al.-o propose to investigate the Black Muslems who advocate black supremacy, who commit
murder and who commit arson all ovei the country in a period of one week and who defied and
refused to allow Chicago Police to enter their meeting place while they were beating almost to the
point of death one of Malcolm X's friends. We urge each of you to write this Congressman and
demand that he investigate the Black Muslems.
Tile original Ku Klux Klan invites any investigation that Congressman Weltner should like to
make. The citizens of Bogalusa know that this city has always been a Klanish City from the days of
the Great Southern Lumber Company until now. We have never appreciated outsiders telling us
how to run our city. Outsiders have often caused trouble In our City. A good axample of tlus was
vhcn labor unions were forming in Bogalusa. A gang of union busters or hired gunmen were brought
into this citv to kill those who stood up for the common man. As a result of such incidents, It is
i^ilv natur.il tin: Bogalusa would be Klanish.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 9
2456 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Charles Christmas Exhibit No. 1-A
published by the original louisiana ku klux klan
THE QUESTION
WHO BOUGHT JESSE CUTRER?
Was It CORE 7 Was it LBJ ?
In the beginning of the Racial troubles In Bogalusa, the Mayor asRured the people that he COULD L
WOULD handle this Invasion of trouble makers. When the problem began the Mayor said that he would
not give a Parade Permit. Cutrer did give the Parade Permit. The people of Bogalusa respected the
Mayor's Judgement. The tax-paying people gave up their streets and humbled themselves. The people
were ORDERED off THEIR own streets, by a Police Force, whom the people pay. This was done by
direct order of the Bogalusa Mayor, the man that was trusted. NO VIOLENCE "ERUPTED. The people
did EVERYTHING in their power to see that the Mayor and his Council were not Interfered with In their
efforts to save the city from this DEGRADATION. As the people tried to preserve our Southern way of
Life, the Mayor and Council were slowly selling the people out at every turn. The Mayor has repeatly
GIVEN In. James Farmer did not have the support of the local Negroes. Mayor Cutrer is not giving the
city of Bogalusa to the negro citizens of Bogalusa. No. He is giving the city to James Farmer and a
handful of Negro Teenagers. NO PRESSURE was put on James Farmer and Dick Gregory to keep them
out of Bogalusa. Not by the Mayor, the State Representative, the State Senator, or Congressman
Morrison. This was not so when the WHITE CONSERVATIVES wanted to stage a Rally. Pressure waa
exerted from all levels, even the invited guest speaJ^ers were "leaned on".
TheGovemor, the Congressman, Jimmy Morrison, or his com-rats, Suksty Rayborn, and Buster
Sheridan. John McKeithen asked for our vote and promised to serve the PEOPLE. We now ask. Big
John, isn't this TRUE ? What is happening under your administration?
Here is the list of elected officals who COULD & AND SHOULD have helped the People of Bogalusa.
All these should be tarred and feathered.
NLAYOR JESSIE CUTRER
REPiiESENTAlIVE SHERIDAN
S.KNATOR SIXTY RAYBORN
SHERIFF DORMAN CROWE
CONGRESSMAN JIMMY MORRISON
GOVERNOR JOHN MCKEITHEN
SENATOR RUSSELL LONG
Now the QUESTION. Why have these men, elected by the WHITE people turned their back on ub In
OBT time of need ? '
Is Communism so close? Who bought them? Who bought their HONOR and FOR HOW MUCH?
MAYBE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE:
1. Rowan Burris-Homoeexual; he Is free on bond at the present time, charged with
contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
2. Robert Hlcks-Offlclal of the Neg^ro Voters League.
3. A. Z. Young-Official of the Negro Voters League.
4. Michael Jones-Local Program Director for CORE.
5. Robert Taylor-Official of the Negro Voters League,
6. Victor Bussie-State President of ALF-CIO, Chalrmanforthe committee of OUTSIDERS
imported into Bogalusa by Mayor Jesse H. Cutrer, Jr., to solve our LOCAL problami.
7. Camel Gravel-Member of this IMPORTED MEDIATION BOARD.
S.Bascom D. Talley, Jr., -Local representative for LBJ's federalcompllance agency,
"The Community Relations Service."
9. Ronnie Moore-State Field Representative for CORE.
10. Dick Gregory-Negro Comedian.
11. James Farraer-NatlonAl Director for CORE.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2457
Charles Christmas Exhibit No. 1-B
PUBLISHED BY THE ORIGINAL KU KLOX KLAN OF LOUISIANA
It i« the intention of this liteniture to Inform the public of (be p««ltloiu taken by the original
Ku Klux Kl&n In the past six months of racial strlfte In our otty.
On numerous occasions we have been asked by local officials to refrain from any acts of
violence upon this outside scum that has Invaded our city. Being a christian organization, we have
honored these requests each time. How much longer can we continue??? Contrary to what the
liberal element would have you think, this memorandum is not the work of racist and hate mongers
or trouble makers, as Governor "Big John" McKelthen calls us. We are God fearing white,
southerners who believe in constitutional government and the preservation of our American heritage.
If your governor would have done the right thing to start with, he would have refused to protect
these local and outside agitators and did just what one great southern governor did. He refused to
protect this outside element, (CORE, NA.\CP, SNICK, ETC.), at the expense of his stote. He
chose, instead, to let LBJ and Katzenbach protect them. Only after the city of Bogalusa had spent
$96, 000, did he, (Big John McKeithen), make any effort to ease the situation in this city.
"Big John" is now organizing a 40 man biracial committee to prevent other "Bogalusas". He
does not need this committee, because he and our mayor have and still are giving these niggers,
(Deacons for Defense of Justice), their every whim.
It has come to the point that these agitators can sit and block the entrance to our restaurants.
In New York, Washington D. C. and on Pennsylvania Avenue, this low class scum was arrested and
taken to jail, but not in our city.
On Thursday July 22, one of our local police captains gave the order to arrest the "sit ins" in
front of one of our local restaurants, but his superior Intervened, and ordered his men to 'let
these little darlings alone".
"Skinnum" Jim Morrlsion was called on for his assistance also. Mr. Morrision informed
some of our local citizens that they supported the Republican candidate in the last election and
they should call upon him for his assistance. If Mr. Morrlsion had the welfare of his district,
(and not his pocketbook), and heart, he would use the powers of his office to restore our city to
normalcy and remove such characters as James Farmer, Ronnie Moore, Louis Lomax, Dick
Gregory, and LBJ'S troublemaker, John Doar
FACT ABOUT OUR FEDERAL JUDGES:
Can a white man win Justice in a federal court??'' These federal judges are not elected by
the people, but arc appointed to office by the same people that are now after the nigger block vote.
DID YOU KNOW
1. Judge "Crystal Ball" Christenberry Is a brother-in-law of James H. Morrlsion, and has
been in a mental hospital for alcoholism?
2. Judge Gordon West was a law-partner of Russell B. Long - he taught one class at LSU,
but was paid full pay.
3. Judge Frank Ellis was the attorney in 1947 for the Dairy Fanners of the Florida Parishes.
He took their money and sent 52 out of 54 men to federal Jail for a year or more. (Many
of these men were just home from World War 11).
Hai any of these judges ever served in the armed forces and fought or been wounded for their
country 7 ? ?
Recently there was a hearing before judge "Crystal Ball", in which he Inferred that the
testimony of most of the white witnesses was false, but on the other hand, when a nigger was
confused by cross e.xamtnation, he put words in his mouth. There was no need for this hearing,
becfiuse, just llkt= Doar, his liberal, brain washed mind was already In favor of the niggers.
The only wi> lo defeat this enemy is by organized opposition and resistance. There are
more than enough people who oppose this unconstitutional behavior to defeat it. Simply join hands
with us. Vote for a Jeffersonian type of government, not for personal gain. Vote for honorable.
Christian candidates. If all our elected officials were statesmen instead of politicians, we would
not be faced with the problems before us at this time. We can defeat this Issue with the ballot,
boycott and economic pressure.
Won't you please join with us in this fight for freedom and leave a christian America to your
children as your parents left to you.
We can't raise our standards by mixing with the black man, but we will lower the standards
of this great nation that the white man has built. Are we to save the Political careers of
James Morrlsion, John McKeithen, Sixty Raybom, et al. Or are we to save our religions, houses,
and country?
Let us leave thin one thought with you:
"Purchase where the nigger pickets"
2458 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Charles Christmas Exhibit No. 1-C
JULY 13 1965
f;,cts Facts facts
to: the colored people of this community, and othek'imis-led persons.
UNTIL THE NAaCP AND CORE BECAME ACTIVE IN LOUISIANA ANY COLORED
PERSON COULD GET HELP FROM ANY WHITE PERSON (MALE OR FEMALE), UNTIL
THE NAACP AND CORE BEGAN TO THREATEN THE GOOD COLORED PEOPLE AND
FORCE THEM TO JOIN THEIR SO CALLED CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.
THE JEWISH LED CORE AND N.ulCP GAVr. YOU.,.
MONTHLY DUES TO PAY (DID YOU EVER KNOW A JEW TO DO ANYTHING HE WASN'T
WELL PAID FOR?) THIS IS TAKING THE COLORED PEOPLES MONEY TO MAKE THE
NORTHEN JEW RICHER.
HAVE THEY EVER HELPED YOU GET A JOB?
HAVE THEY EVER HELPED YOU FINANCE A CROP?
HAVE THEY EVER LOANED YOU MONEY AT LOW INTEREST?
HAVE THEY EVER- FED OR CLOTHED YOUR CHILDERN?
HAVE THEY LOWERED YOUR SOCIAL POSITION BY FORCING YOU TO ASSOCIATE
WITH THE LOWEST WHITE TRASH FROM THE NORTH?
THE GOOD COLORED PEOPLE HAVE ALWAf-S LOOKED DOWN ON THIS TYPE OF
POOR WHITE TRASH. THIS POOR WHITE TRASH IS SO LOW THEY ARE NOT ACCE-
PTED IN THE WHITE SOCIETY.
WHY DO YOU ALLOW THE JEWISH LED NAACP AND CORE MAKE THEM YOUR LEADERS?
TRUE, THEY HAVE MADE SOME LOCAL COLORED PEOpr.? RICH. THOSE WHO HAVE
SOLD THEIR BROTHERS SOUL FOR (BLOOD MONEY) ''■', PEICES OF SILVER, THE
PRICE JUDAS WAS PAID FOR BETRAYAL OF JE3US CnRIST.
THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GIVE YOU BUT PROMISES AND MUST LIVE OFF YOU.
HOW MANY. OF YOUR COLORED BROTHERS CAN YOU NAME THAT ARE SELLING YOU
FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL GAIN? AS JUDAS DID JESUS CHRIST.
HOW MANY OF THESE COLORED BROTHERS THAT TOOK THIS WHITE TRASH INTO
THEIR HOMES DO YOU KNOW? LOOK AROUND AND SEE IF IT HELPED THEM TO
MIX WITH THE WHITE SOCIETY, NO, FOR NOW THESE SAME COLORED BROTHERS
ARE LIVING IN A CLOSED SOCIETY, FOR NONE OF THIER WHITE FRIENDS WI^L
RESPECT THEM NOW. THEY LOWERED THEMSELVES BY TAKING THIS WHITE TRASH
IN TO THIER HOMES.
LOOK AT THOSE WHO ARF. GETTING PAYC'-UCKS FPOM OPERATION HEAD START,
THE SAME ONES THAT ALREADY DRAW A rAYCHECK FROM THE TAXPAYERS.
SHOULD THAT NOT PROVE TO YOU COLOP^D PEOPLE, THAT THESE SO CALLED
LEADERS ARE SELFISH. COLORED PEOPLE WAKE UP AND STOP THESE SELFISH
(SO-CALLED) LEADERS, FROM USING YOU AS A TOOL FOR THIER OWN L-A-Z-Y
POCKET BOOKS.
THINK COLORED PEOPLE THINK.
REMEMBER
IF THE TRUTH SEEMS STRANGE
IT'S BECAUSE TRUTH
HAS BECOME A STRANGER IN THIS LAND
THE K.K.K.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2459
The Chairiman. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. I would like to call Mr. Saxon Farmer.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Farmer. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SAXON FARMER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Will you please state your full name for the record,
please, sir?
Mr. Farmer. Saxon Farmer.
Mr. Appell. "Wlien and where were you born ?
Mr. Farmer. February 13, 190Y, at Huttig, Arkansas.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Farmer. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. IxGRAM. Michael S. Ingram from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, are you appearing here this morning and
this afternoon in accordance with subpena served upon you by Deputy
United States Marshall on October 26, 1965 at 315 East 5th Street
in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Farmer. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, under the terms of the subpena you are
directed to bring with you and to produce documents set forth in the
attachment, which is made a part of this subpena.
Paragraph 1 reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original
Knights of Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and affiliated organizations, namely.
Anti-Communist Christian Association in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as member or officer of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or the Origi-
nal Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana or the Anti-Communist Christian
Association.
I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline and refuse to produce on the
grounds that it might tend to incriminate me; on the further grounds
that it would violate my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amend-
ments as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed to produce.
The Chairmax. You were in the hearing room when I explained
the position of the committee to other witnesses preceding you w^ith
reference to this subpena being served upon you, not in your individ-
ual capacity but in the capacity indicated in the subpena. You were
present ; were you not ?
Mr. Farmer. Yes.
The Chairman. I take it, as your counsel and others previously
have indicated, you understand the position. I now order and direct
you to produce them.
Mr. Farmer, I respectfully refuse to produce this information on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, a copy of the opening statement the chair-
man delivered when these hearings first started in October was sent
2460 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
to your attorney. Were you advised of the contents of that document ?
Mr. Farmer. Yes.
The Chairmax. Mr. Ingram, you would make the same admission
as with reference to the previous clients, that is, you received a copy
and are generally familiar with what I said at the beginning of the
hearings indicating the purpose, objective, and hopes of the hearings?
Mr. Ingram. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls for the production of :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past member or officer of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights
of the Ku Kiux Klan, or any other Klan organization, which the "Constitution
and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you
and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession,
custody or control.
I direct you to produce those documents.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline and refuse to produce the docu-
ments on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for direction of the witness for
production of items called for in paragraph 2.
The Chairmax. For the reasons previously indicated and under
the circumstances of our colloquy, I order and direct you to produce
these documents.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline and refuse to produce the docu-
ments on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, are there any grounds for refusal to
produce the documents called for in paragraphs 1 and 2 other than the
reasons which vou have set forth ?
Mr. Farmer. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Were any of the books, records, and documents called
for in paragraph 1 and paragraph 2 destroyed after you had knowl-
edge of the committee's investigation and out of fear that those docu-
ments would be subpenaed by this committee?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline and refuse to answer on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, were you a witness before the three-judge
court sitting in September 1965 in New Orleans, Louisiana?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I will put it to you as a fact that you testified you were
the Grand Titan of the Klan and at the same time vice president of the
Anti-Communist Christian Association and ask you to affirm or deny
that fact.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In supporting the Constitution of the Ignited States,
do you as the vice president of the Anti-Communist Christian Associa-
tion support the Constitution of the United States as it now exists,
or do you have reservations as to the Constitution which you support?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appeix. I hand you a copy of Articles of Incorporation of
the Anti-Communist Christian Association.
According to this document, the Articles of Incorporation were
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2461
filed with the recorder of AVashington Parish, Louisiana, on January
21, 1965. They show the registered agents are Robert T. Rester, Saxon
Farmer, and that the tirst directors are W. J. [William J.] Williams
of Varnado, Louisiana; Saxon Farmer; and Lloyd Joiner, Route 2,
Box 270, Ponchatoula, Louisiana.
Li handing this document to you, Mr. Farmer, I ask you to explain
the provision Article II, the purpose of that part of it which reads:
To provide for the preservation of the Constitution of the State of Louisiana,
the Constitution of the United States of America, as originally written * * *.
Would you explain that to the committee, please 't
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer your question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Saxon Farmer Exhibit No. 1. See committee
report. The Present-Day Kit KIux Klan, Movement, pp. 362-365.)
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Cliairman, I might point out that the Constitu-
tion as originally written contains neither the 1st, 4th, 5th, nor the 14th
amendment.
The Chairman. That is historically true.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, as the number two man in both the Klan
and the Anti-Communist Christian Association, did you approve and
endorse the action taken against Bascom D. Talley, Jr., Bruce Shep-
herd, Paul Gillespie, Jerry Chance, Ralph Blumberg, and Lou Major
following knowledge of an invitation extended to Brooks Hays?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I would ask you if you can reconcile the position that
you took in light of reason 27 as it appears in the "Fifty Reasons Why
You Should Be a Member of the Original Ku Klux Klan,*' w^hich is
because the Klan "believes in free speech and free press, as opposed
further to a police state." (Murry Martin Exhibit No. 14, p. 2389.)
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, on Saturday, May 30th of 1964, the Klan
had a rally in Bogalusa on public property, in which members of the
Klan were masked in violation of Louisiana law. Did the Klan have
assurances from anyone, law authority, in Bogalusa that you would
not be arrested for violating the Louisiana State law that prohibits
the wearing of a mask on public property ?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, you were in the room when I read to Mr.
Christmas the findings of the court with respect to violence and intimi-
dation carried out by the members of the Original Knights and the
Anti-Communist Christian Association. I give you an opportunity to
express any comments you care to express on the findings of the court
in that action.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Farmer I would like you to answer the question
if you can safely answer it. You were in the hearing room when Mr.
Christmas was on the stand and when I read excerpts from that deci-
sion in which case you, as a matter of fact, were also a defendant; were
you not ? I am asking you, were you in the room ?
Mr. Farmer. Yes.
2462 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Without repetition or consumption of more time,
I, too, offer you an opportunity to confirm, deny, explain, or other-
wise comment on the findino^s of the court based upon admissions made
in the pleadings and based upon admissions in the courtroom and based
upon sworn testimony before the court. Do you care to avail yourself
of that offer?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
The Chairman. Until you or someone else of the defendants in that
suit appears before this committee and gives credible testimony which
would show otherwise, this committee will assume, under the circum-
stances indicated, that the excerpts I quoted from are true.
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question of the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appei^l. Mr. Farmer, do you know John Magee ?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee testified at the three-man court in Louisiana,
identified himself as being treasurer of the Anti-Communist Christian
Association, and testified that while he was the treasurer you^ Saxon
Farmer, controlled the fimds. "VVliat are the sources of funds of the
Anti-Communist Christian Association?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the grounds, consti-
tutional grounds, previously stated.
Mr. Appell. You testified that there were seven Klan units in Wash-
ington Parish. I ask you to identify the exalted cyclops of those
seven units.
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. You testified that you opposed the appearance of
former Congressman Brooks Havs because he appeared to you to be a
liberal, leftwing Communist. Yet you testified in court you had no
evidence. Is a tactic like this one of the typical tactics of the Klan of
which you were an officer?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
IVfr. Appell. Isn't it a fact that you testified that vou were one of
the incoq^orators of an organization known as the United Conserva-
tives ?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, among the incorporators listed were your-
self; your son ; Ned Touchstone of Shreveport, Louisiana ; and Court-
ney Smith of Shreveport, Louisiana. Did you know the other three
other than yourselves to be members of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Farmer. T decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Farmer, do you have a formal connection today,
witli, not the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klnn, not the Anti-
Communist Christian Association, but the United Klans of America,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which is headed bv the Imperial Wiz-
ard Kobert Shelton?
Mr. Far:mer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds pre^^ously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2463
Mr. Appeli^. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you spoke at a United Klan rally held at Poplarville,
Crossroads Community, Mississippi, on 17 July 1965. I ask you to
affirm or deny the fact.
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the master of ceremonies for that rally in which you
spoke was C. J. Seal of ^Vliite Sands Community, Poplarville, Missis-
sippi.
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that another speaker along with yourself was Mr. Ovied Dun-
away of Bogalusa, Louisiana, who at one time was an exalted cyclops
of an Original Knights Klavem in Bogalusa.
Mr. FarjVier. I decline to answer the questions on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Was Mr. Dunaway, whom I have identified as a speaker
at that rally, also in charge of a raffle in Bogalusa which was staged to
raise funds for the A.C.C.A. ?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Mr. Dunaway to hold a supervisor posi-
tion with the telephone company in Bogalusa ?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did Mr. Dunaway assist the Klan in any manner in
illegally obtaining any knowledge against citizens of Bogalusa?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that Mr. John O. Guinn from Taylor, Louisiana was another
speaker at that rally
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that Ernest Gilbert, the grand kleagle of the United Klans
of America for the Realm of Mississippi, was a speaker at that rally.
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that E. L. McDaniel, the Grand Dragon for the State of
Mississippi, was also a speaker at that rally,
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that Mr. Jack Helm, an officer of the L^iiited Klans of Amer-
ica, Eealm of Louisiana, was a speaker at that rally.
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you meet on the platform at that rally a Klans-
man from Waveland, Mississippi, by the name of DiSalvo ?
Mr. Farmer. I decline to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
2464 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. On July 21, 1965, the United Klans of America held
another rally at Poplan-ille, Crossroads, Mississippi. The principal
speaker at the July 21 rally was Imperial Wizard Mr. Shelton. I
would like to ask you to comment on a report made to the committee
with respect to the speakers at that rally, and I am quoting from a
report :
The last speaker was a 16 year old boy from Bogalusa, La., named Mike Copran.
He gave a short talk on the Bible and its stand on integration. He also made a
plea for boys in the Bogalusa area to join a youth group headed by Mr. Saxon
Farmer. He stated that any boy belonging to the group would have his bond
made, and or, his fine paid if he got in trouble with the law for hitting a negro
demonstrator.
Do you have any comment to make upon that, Mr. Farmer ?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Were you on July 21, 1965, organizing a youth group
under your leadership as Mike Copran is reported to have said at that
rally?
Mr. Farmer. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. John Magee.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Magee. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN MAGEE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Will you state you full name for the record, please, sir?
Mr. Magee. John Magee.
Mr. Appell. I think you will have to speak up a little louder and
get closer to the mike. I could not hear you.
Mr. Magee. John Magee.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Magee. January 3, 1932, at Tylertown, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Wliere do you presently reside, Mr. Magee.
Mr. Magee. Bogalusa.
Mr. Appell. Your street and address ?
Mr. Magee. 531 Union Avenue.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, are you appearing here today in accordance
with the subpena served upon you on the 28th day of December 1965 ?
Mr. Magee. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, have you been apprised through your at-
torney of the contents of the opening statement the chairman delivered
on October 19, 1965, as to the purpose of this hearing ?
Mr. Magee. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, the subpena served upon you called for
you to bring with you and to produce documents called for in attach-
ment which reads as follows:
All books, records, correspondence and memoranda relating to the organiza-
tion of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan, the Original Knights of the Ku KIux Klan of Louisiana, the
Louisiana Rifle Association, the Christian Constitutional Crusaders, and the
Anti-Communist Christian Association in your possession, custody or control.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2465
or maintained by yon or available to you as present or past officer or member of
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Louisiana, the Louisiana Rifle Association, the Christian Constitutional
Crusaders, and the Anti-Communist Christian Association.
I ask you to produce the documents called for in that section.
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to decline, to answer the question —
I respectfully refuse to produce the records on the grounds it might
tend to incriminate me under the Constitution, and on the further
grounds to answer the same would violate my rights inherent under
the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the
United States.
The Chairman. Mr. Magee, you were in the hearing room, were you
not, when I explained the position of the committee with reference
to the command of this subpena served upon you to produce docu-
ments in the capacity indicated in the subpena ?
Mr. Magee. Yes.
The Chairman. For the reasons I stated previously, which you say
you understand, I order and direct you to produce these documents.
Mr. Magee. I refuse to produce the documents on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, are there any reasons other than the
reasons you have set forth that you did not produce the documents
called for?
Mr. Magee. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, during the proceedings in the three-judge
court in Louisiana, the court ordered Mr. Charles Christmas and Mr.
Saxon Farmer to try to recall from memory, or from any records
available to them, the identity of people w-ho were members of either
the Klan or the Anti-Communist Christian Association. These two
lists or three lists were submitted by Mr. Farmer and Mr. Christmas.
One is a list headed "Former Officers of the Original Knights of the
K.K.K."; the other, "Officers" of the "Anti-Communist Christian
Assn." Both of these documents under the heading of "Officers"
list "Johnny Magee."
Is the information supplied by the court as it applies to yourself
in that proceeding, as it applies, factual ?
Mr. Magee. I refuse to answer on tlie grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "John Magee Exhibits Nos. 1-A and 1-B,"
respectively. See pp. 2467-2469.)
Mr. Appell. Are you presently a member of any Klan organiza-
tion ?
Mr. Magee. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you a reproduction of a signature card filed
with the First State Bank & Trust Co., Bogalusa, Louisiana, on account
in the name of the Parish A.C.C.A. The card shows that the authority
to the bank to authorize payment of checks containing any two signa-
tures was given by Robert E. Stall ings and contains the names of J. E.
Magee, B. R. Crain, Sidney Brock, for an account opened on May 22,
1965. I ask you if that signature card is factual?
Mr. Magee. I refuse to answer on the groimds it might tend to
incriminate me.
(Document marked "John Magee Exhibit No. 2" follows:)
2466 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
John Magee Exhibit No. 2
CORPORATION
^;
rjO First S^a^e Bank 8; Trust Co. _ Bog3lusa,Louisiana
You a
itafe Uan!< & l rusr <^0. DOg3iU5a,L.oui5iana ;
re au:hori7.cd to rccornizc any (• /O ) °^ ^^^ sifrn.inires subscribed below In the :
:-nt of funds or the transaction of nnv business for l:ijs account. It is arreed that all ;
payment ol lunos or me iransaciion or a:iv ouhiiH-ss lo. i.;ijs .n-uwunt. n. is ui itcu mov on
tra'n.sactions between you and the undersigned shall i»a govern^ b^ the con_^ract printed
on the reverse side of this cavd. /C/y/ /
(• Indicate Number of Signatures Required) 1. BY
A.B.A. Anproved Contract
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■ II 'fTl - ± ' - - - - t. - ,..-■-. -. . - ■■ ' ■ ' -J
-f-Bz 'S^ /A.r.j- ^
'r DATE OPENED SIGNATURE AUTHORITY DATED INITIAL DEPOSIT / ACCOUNTyJPENED BY
'^%^^-h^^^^^——-^^^^^
^;-.
/O Q. ~S~V
Mr. ArPELL. According to canceled checks submitted by the banks
in accordance with the subpena duces tecum, the makers are John
Magee, J. E. Magee, Eobert E. Stall ings, J. E. Magee, Sidney Brock,
J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings, J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings.
These checks are drawn against the account of ih& Parish A.C.C.A.
One shows that the purpose for which drawn is for district funds.
Can you explain to the committee the division of the Parish A.C.C.A.
into its district breakdown ?
Mr. Magee. I decline to r on the grounds it might tend to
incriminate me.
(Checks marked "Jolm Magee Exhibit No. 3" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Appell. Will you tell the committee the purpose for which
these checks were drawn ?
Mr. jVLvgee. I decline to answer on the constitutional gi'ounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appeul. It is your testimony in the Federal court that Saxon
Farmer actually handled the funds, therefore, the inference that your
position of treasurer is that of a figurehead position?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully decline to answer under the constitu-
tional grounds it might incriminate me.
Mr. Appeli.. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that the records re-
lating to the Parish A.C.C.A. and the list of former officers of the
Original Knights, and the current members of the Anti-Communist
Christian Association be entered as an exhibit to Magee's testimony.
The Chairman. These documents will be admitted in the record at
this point.
Mr. Appeli.. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of this
witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
(John Magee Exliilnf-^ N^os. 1-A and 1-B introduced on p. 2465
follow:)
z^-
:^.
/
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2467
John Magee Exhibit No. 1-A
i/JKyy-T^
f -'i-'*? ^-ci/t/o*-^
t
)k-
4r M^/jx^ '^kli
f\a^jol^ 'i^J.ljl
'^.jy.^.'.^-'~^
H
/^ r^uM^ S^'^'^^-i^
2468 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
John Magee Exhibit No. 1 -A— Continued
John Magee Exhibit No. 1-B
an .d /]/
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2469
John Magee Exhibit No. 1-B— Continued
J.
-^ A^.j^
2470 ACTWITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
The Chairman. Call your next witness.
Mr. iVpELL. Dewey Bernard Smith.
The Chairmax. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Smith. I do.
TESTIMONY OF DEWEY BERNARD SMITH, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Smith?
Mr. Smith. Dewey B. Smith.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom ?
Mr. Smith. Washington Parish, Louisiana, March 8, 1920.
Mr. Appell. Is the city of your birth Franklinton ?
Mr. Smith. I don't really know.
Mr. Appell. Wliere do you reside?
Mr. Smith. At present I reside in Granada Hills, California.
The Chairman. How long have you been residing there?
Mr. Smith. The latter part of September 1965.
The Chairman. And your residence previous to that was?
Mr. Smith. Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Smith. Yes I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Michael S. Ingram, Baton Kouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, have you been advised by your counsel as
to the contents of the opening statement of the chairman setting forth
the purposes of this hearing?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, are you appearing here today in accord-
ance with a subpena served upon you by the United States marshal on
10-28-65, October 28, 1965?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Under the conditions of the subpena served upon you
and the date of your appearance which was extended by telegrams,
you were directed to produce for the committee items contained in an
attachment tliereto, which was made a part of the subpena.
Under paragraph 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and affiliated organizations, namely, the Anti-
Communist Christian Association in yoiir ix>ssession. custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as Exalted Cyclops of Washington Parish
Unit of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana.
I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline and refuse to produce said docu-
ments on the grounds that it might incriminate me and on the further
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2471
grounds that it would be a violation of my rights under the 1st, 4th,
5th, and 14th amendments to the United States Constitution.
The Chairman. Mr. Smith, you were in the hearing room when I
exj^lained the position of this committee with reference to the pro-
visions of tliis subpena directing you to produce documents in the
capacity indicated therein ; were you not ?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
The Chairman. Then I call upon you and direct you to produce
those documents.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to produce them on constitutional
grounds as previously indicated.
Mr. Appell. Do you have any reasons, other tlian the constitutional
reasons that you stated, for failing to produce the documents called
for?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Is one of the reasons for your failure to produce,
the fact that some of those documents were documents which were
destroyed in a fear that they might be subpenaed by the Federal
Government in the Bogalusa case, as well as by this committee?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I will say to you as a fact that you were a defendant
in that suit.
Were you in the hearing room — I think you were — when I read ex-
cerpts from that decision which, by reason of the fact that you were
a defendant, apply to you ? I am just asking, were you in the hearing
room ?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
The Chairman. Do you ca,re to avail yourself of an opportunity to
explain, contradict, deny, or otherwise comment on the facts and hold-
ings of the court based on the statements in the record in that sworn
testimony ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
The Chairman. If people in that case do not decide to appear and
give credible contradictory testimony under oath, the committee may
presume to be true the factual findings made in that decision.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 of the subpena calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
a present or past member or officer of the United Klans of America. Inc., Kniglits
of the Ku Klux Klan. which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to produce on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
2472 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. And for the reasons I have previously indicated,
set forth, I order and direct you to produce these documents.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to produce the documents on the
constitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, I hand you a series of leaflets distributed
in the Bogalusa area published, according to the leaflets, by the Orig-
inal Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, and I ask you if you are the author
of any of these leaflets ?
Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
(Documents previously marked "Ralph Blumberg Exhibits Nos.
1 and 3" and "Charles Christmas Exhibits Nos. 1-A through 1-C,"
respectively. See pp. 2454-2458.)
The Chairman. Mr. Smith, I understand you have a college educa-
tion and that you are a fluent talker — in general terms I am talking
about. Would you care to describe to the committee the purpose and
objectives and programs that the Klan organization stands for?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, what is your educational background?
The Chairman. Well, I just indicated that it was my information
that he had gone through college. I obtained that from you so I sup-
pose that is accurate. I hope it is.
Mr. Appell. I would like him to state the full extent.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you attended Southwestern Louisiana Institute prior to
enrolling in San Jose State College. You attended in 1944 and 1945,
enrolled in chemistry and botany courses.
September 1945 you were admitted to the University of California
at Los Angeles and completed 35 units, majoring in horticulture.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. What is your military background, Mr. Smith ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you entered the United States Army in June 1940 ; were
lionorably discharged as technical sergeant in May 1943; accepted a
commission in the Army of the United States, the Army Air Force;
were relieved of active duty in April 1944 as a second lieutenant due
to a duodenal ulcer and neuritis.
Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you drawing disability or retirement benefits from
the United States Army ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2473
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the con-
stitutional (grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, in February 1964, did you attend a meetintr
of Klan units at Alexandria, Louisiana, in which Royal V. Young, the
former Imperial Dragon of the Original Knights of tlie Ku Klux
Klan, appeared before the representatives of tlie units and to ask that
the organization be held together under his leadership ?
The Chairman. And asked what ?
Mr. Appell. That the organization be held together under his lead-
ership. Under Young's leadership.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In March 1964 were you a write-in candidate for sheriiT
of "Washington Parish, Louisiana?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Wlien you plead the fifth amendment on a political ques-
tion, you might get in trouble on that.
Mr. Appell. Did you advise the electorate at the time you were a
candidate that you were at the same time a member of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
The Chairman. Well, w^ere you ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, having taken a Klan oath in which you
promised to keep secret to yourself the secret of a Klansman, except
treason against the United States, rape, and malicious murder, how
could you in good conscience, having taken that oath, appear on a bal-
lot as a candidate for the office of sheriff?
Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer the question on the constitutional
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. If you had been elected to sheriff, under your oath,
wouldn't you have had to give protection to your fellow Klansmen?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In July 1964, were you a member, or the exalted cyclops
of Unit No. 2 in Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Woulcl you identify to the committee the klokan and
the members of the wrecking crew of that Klan unit ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answ^er the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In December of 1964 were you exalted cyclops of Unit
No. 1 of the Klan in Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
2474 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In February 1965, while the exalted cyclops of Unit
No. 1, did you advise fellow Klansmen that you would put up your
business and property to go bail bond for any Klansman arrested ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In April of 1965 did you attempt, along with other
Klansmen, to enter Central High School in Bogalusa to disrupt an
integration meeting?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question upon the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Smith, have you made a statement to your fellow
Klansmen that you owe no loyalty to the United States because the late
President Kennedy and President Johnson are traitors?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the statement — the
question — on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I wish you would correct me if I am wrong, but it is
my understanding you are receiving compensation from the Federal
Government.
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. While residing m Bogalusa in January 1965, were you
a member of the Minutemen ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. At a meeting of the Minutemen in January 1965, did
you make the statement the only way to keep communism from taking
over was to get rid of some politicians and that the only way to do this
was to kill them ?
Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the con-
stitutional grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow.
(Wliereupon, at 4 p.m., Wednesday, January 5, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, January 6, 1966.)
[On the following pages appears the opinion of court in the case
of United States v. Original Knights of the Kit KJux Klan^ et al.
marked "Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2-' and introduced into tlie
record on p. 2425.]
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2475
(O.yjGDJAl,)
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2
IIJ THS TOUTED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
EASTl^n DISORICT OF LOUISIAi^IA
KS^ ORLEANS DIVISION
U. S. DISTRICT CO ..if.
EASTERN DlSTRiCT Of LOUliiA^i;.
KIITHD STATES OF AI^SRICA, by
ITicholas deB. Katzenbach,
Attorney GeneraJ. of the
united States,
Plaintiff,
ORic-niAL k::^hts of tee ku klux
iCLy'T, an unicorporated Associa-
tion; .'^j'ii-coi-i:.iTOn:sT cibistian
ASSOCLWION, a corporation;
SAXON FABI'SR; Ca^LES CHRISIM.'iS;
RUSSELL MAG2E; DET/JEY ST-HTH; VIRGIL
CORKERN; ALBERT .APPLSVraiTE; E. J.
(JACK) DIXON; DELOS WILLIi^i'S;
J.'J-SS M. ELLIS; EiRDIE ADRIAN
C-OINGS, JR.; ESLEY FREEMW;
ARTHUR R.iy APPLS-TdlTE; JAIffiS' A.
KOLLINGSWORTH, JR.; RANDLE C.
PCU-A-DS; SIDNEY AUGUST W.ARNER;
BILLY ALFQRD; RAVTLIN V/ILLIANISON;
LOUIS .^PLff.'JHITE; VJILLIS
BL/i.CiC.'ELL; J. A. HOLLINGSiv'ORTH,
SR.; LATT'~.;ORE McNEESS; IRA
DTOIAWAY; DOYLE TYKES; CHARLES
RA.Y WILLI.ai-IS; FRAIKLIN a^RRIS;
CHARLES McCLEI-n)ON; DSLTON"
GR.AVES; IttLTON E.«L P;^i«<2R;
I4ERVIN TAYLOR; VA?! DAY; RAY
RISIIER; JAMES D. TERRELL;
J. D. JOIES; RICHARD E. KREBS;
MICHAEL R. KOLDEN; J.\I-SS BUKCS;
.iJ^BERT SE-KCI'S, JR., and
NOEL BALL, JR.
Defendants
DEO
•A. DALLAM O'SRIEN: JR,.
.CIVIL ACTIO^r KG. 15793
^^C2 -in
1365
fxJ'K
■HD£F^
2476 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
Before WISDOX, Circuit Judge, and CHRISTES,32RRY and AINSWORTH, District
Judges.
WISDOM, Circuit Judge:
This is a.-, action by the Nation against a :^lan.*
The United States of America asks for an injunction to protect
Negro citizens in Washington Parish, Louisiana, seeking to assert their
civil rights. The defendants are the "Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan", an unincorporated association, the "Anti-Communist Christian
Association)' a Louisiana corporation, and certain individual klansmen,
1
most of whom come from in and around Bogalusa, Louisiana.
The defendants admit most of the allegations of the complaint.
Their legal position is that a private organization and private persons
are beyond the reach of the civil rights acts authorizing the Attorney
General to sue for an injunction. There is no me;:it to this contention.
Seeking refuge in silence and secreicy, the defendants object to
the admission of any evidence as to klan activities. We hold, however,
that what the klan is and what the klan dc>t:s bear significantly on the
material issues and on the appropriate relief.
In deciding to grant the injunction prayed for, we rest our con-
clusions on the finding of fact that, within the n.eaning of the Civil
Rights Acts of 1957 and 1954, the defendants have adopted a pattern and
practice of intimidating, threatening, and coercing Negro citizens in
Washington Parish for the purpose of interfering with the civil rights
of the Negro citizens. The compulsion within the klan to engage in this
unlawful conduct is inherent in the nature of the klan. This is its
ineradicable evil. '
We find that to attain its ends, the klan exploits the
forces of hate, prejudice, and ignorance. We find that the klan
relies on systematic economic coercion, varieties of intimidation,
and physi,. _ violence in attempting to frustrate the. national
policy expressed in civil rights legislation. We find that
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2477
, J Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
the klansmen, whether cloaked and hooded as members of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, or skulking in anonymity as members of
a sham organization, "The Anti-Communist christian Association", or
brazenly resorting to violence on the open streets of Bogalusa, are-
a "fearful conspiracy against society , , . [holding] men silent by
;he terror of [their acts] and- 2
/[their] power for evil".
As early as 1868 General Nathan Bedford Forrest, the first
and only Grand Wizard of the original Invisible Empire, dismayed by
mounting, uncontrollable violence laid to the klan, ordered the klan
3
to disband and directed klansmen to burn their robes and hoods.
General ?orrest was a Confederate cavalry hero, a man without fear
and, certainly to most Southerners, a man beyond reproach. He
announced that he would dissociate himself from all klansmen and
cooperate with public officials and the courts in enforcing law and
order. But the founders of the Invisible Empire had sown dragon's
teeth.
The evil that led General Forrest to disband the original Ku
Klux Klan was its perversion of purposes by undisciplined klans led
4
by irresponsible leaders. The evil we find in the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan is an absolute evil inherent in any 'secret order
holding itself above the law: "the natural tendency of all such
5
organizations ... to violence and crime. " As history teaches,
and as the defendants' admissions and the proof demonstrate in this
case, violence and crime follow as the night the day. when masked men
conspire against society itself. Wrapped in myths and misbeliefs
Which they think relieve them of the obligations of ordinary citizens,
klansmen pledge their first allegiance to their Konstitution and
give their fir3t loyalty to a cross :::^;tiii;^:5~5r in flames.
None of the defendant klansmen is a leader in his community. As
a group, they do not appear to be representative of a cross-section of
the community. Instead they appear to be ignorant bullies, callous of
2478 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
z.he harm they know they are doing and lacking in sufficient understand-
ing to co.Tiprehend the chasm between their own twisted Konstitution and
the noble charter of liberties under law that is tie American
Constitution.
Legal tolerance of secret societies .iiust cease at the point where
their merrbers assume supra-governmental powers and take the law in their
own hands. We shall not allow the misguided defendants to interfere with
the rights of Negro citizens derived from or protected by the Consti-
tution of the United States and now expressly recognized by Congress in
various civil rights statutes. V7e enjoin the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klanj its dummy front, the Anti -communist Christian Association,
and the individual defendants from interfering with orders of this Court
and from interfering with the civil rights of Negro citizens in Washing-
ton Parish. Specifically, these rights include:
(1) the right to the equal use and enjoyment of public
facilities, guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment;
(2) the right to the >squal use and enjoyment of public
accommodations, guaranteed by the Civil Rights Act,
42 use 2000a;
(3) the right to register to vote and to vote in all
elections guaranteed by the Fifteenth Junendment,
by 42 use 1971, and by the Voting Rights Act of
1965; and
(4) the right to equal employment opportunities, guaran-
teed by the Civil Rights Act, 42 USC 2000e.
I.
The United States sues under authora.ty of 42 USC 1971;
42 USC 2000a-5 and e-6. Under those sections and under 28 USC 1345,
this Court has jurisdiction of the action. We re.solve any doubt as
to the reach of these sections in favor of the Government's standing
to sue in a case of this kind. In its sovereign capacity the Nation
has a proper interest in preserving the integrity of its judicial
system, in preventing klan interference wich cour: Carders, and in
making meaningful both nationally created and nationally guaranteed
6
civil rights.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2479
; Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
II.
We turn now to ss.- detailed findings of fact.
A. Background. The invisible realm of the Original Knights
coincides with
of the Ku Klux Klan/indiudes-thc-eigiTt-p'urishes— in the Sixth Con-
This district is composed of
gressional District of Louisiana. These-a^a/the "Florida" p^irishes,
the area
/eas^ of the Mississippi River and north of Lake Pontchartrain claimed
7
by Spain unti.1 ISIO. The events giving rise to this action took
place in Washington Parish and centered in Bogalusa, the largest
municipality in the Parish. Bogalusa is on the Pearl River at a
point where the river forms the boundary between Louisiana andj
Mississippi. It has a population of about 14,000 white persons and
1 , 500 Negroes.
The Grand Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
and President. of the Anti -Communist christian Association is Charles
Christmas of Amite in Tangipahoa Parish. Saxon Farmer,, who seems to
have an uncanny capacity for being present whenever there is racial
trouble in ^^galusa, is the second in cor.unand o.- both organizations.
Grand Titan of the Klan and Vice-Presidijnt of f.ie Anti -Communist ^ , ■
Christian Association. In February 1955 he was elected to both
offices simultaneously. He is also the Exalted Cyclops of one of the
Bogalusa Klaverns (local units). In 1950 this Court entered an order
in the case of United States v. KcElveen et als. (C^A.No. 9146)
against Saxon Farmer and others aijgiriing them from interfering with the
8
rights of Negro citizens to vote. That order restored to voter
registration rolls of Washington Parish the names of 1,377 Negro
citizens Farmer and others, then active in the Citizens Council, had
unlawfully purged from the rolls. '
The evidence clearly establishes that the Anti-Communist
Christian Association is not a bona fide, independent organization
2480 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
' Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
but is the defendant klan thinly disguised under a respectable title.
At an earlier time, the klan ' s duiru-ny organization was called the
Bogalusa Gun ar:d-Rif-l<5 Club. The defends.r.ts ' .ef:orts to appear
respectable by association may also be reflected in the location of ■
the klan's pri.-.cipal office in the Disabled American Veterans Hall.
Ths officers, me-iibers, internal structure, method of paying
dues oi the ACC.A. and the klan are identical. The corporate structure
of ^ha .-.CC.\ includes nothing but a charter. The governing rules and
by-laws cf the ACCA are the Klan Kcnstitution. The secret oath for
admission and resignation in both organizations is the klan oath.
Nothing is required of klan members to become members of the ACCA,
except identifying to the secretary of the klan unit their assigned
secret klan number. Klan members are then furnished a small green
card with the name Anti -Communist Christian Association printed thereon.
This Court finds that the defendant klan has appeared in this cause.
"he pretiar.se that the klan does not exist, has ceased to exist, or has
made no appearance in this cause is a sham.
Until recently Washington Parish was segregated from cradle to
coffin. .^.fter Congress adopted the 1964 Civil Rights Act, however,
the Negroes in Bogalusa began a broad scrJ.e camp;,ign to gain recogni-
tion of their rights. Working through the; 3ogal\.sa Voters League,
they conducted voter registration clinics, held nass meetings to call
attention to their grievances, picketed places o;; public accommo-
dations to protest racially discriminatory' policz.es -and petitioned
the Mayor of Bogalusa to accord equal rights in voting, public
facilities, employment, and education.
The klan has been the center of a— -'a^s^r-ii^- a-nd— preot-ios"-o-5
unlawful activity in Washington Parish de^.igned '.o interfere with the
efforts cf Negro citizens to gain equal rights ui.der the law. Its
objective hac been to preserve total racial segregation in Bogalusa
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2481
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
B. 'Defendants' Admissions. An u-iusual feature of this
litigation is the defendants' damning admissions. The defendants
admit that the klan's objective is to prevent Washington Parish
Negroes from exercising the civil rights Congress recognized by
statute. In their pleadings, the defendants concede that they
furthered ■^heir objective by —
(a) assaulting, threatening, and harassing Negroes
who seek to exercise any of their civil rights,
and assaulting, threatening and harassing per-
sons who urge that Negroes should exercise or
be accorded those rights;
(b) comm.itting, threatening to com"ait, and urging
others to commit acts of economic retaliation
against Negroes who seek to exercise these
rights, and against any persons who urge that
Negroes should exercise or be accorded these
rights, or who permit open, free and public
discussion on the issue;
(c) threatening and intimideitinc public officials
and businessm.en who accord or seek to accord
Negi^es their rights wi.thout regard to race or
color.
The reason for the admissions v/as evident at the trial and is
evident in the defendants' brief. The United States subpoenaed over a
hundred witnesses and, no doubt, was prt;pared to prove every allega-
tion in th^ complaint. Because of the c.efenda:.ts' admissions, the dis- .
puted issues were fev; and only a few wi'.nesses were called. As a
result, the klan avoided an airing of i t.s acti\'ities that necessarily ■
would have occurred had a large nur.ber of witn<:sses testified. Not
content v;ith the success of this maneuver, the defendants objected to
the introduction of "any evidence pertaining tCi the activities of the
Ku Klux Klan" on the grounds that (a) the klan had ceased to exist and
(b) "Qelv[ing] into these unrelated matters" was solely "to expose" the
Ku Klux Klan, an invasion of the "privacy and individual freedoms of
all thisa defendants".
2482 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
1 Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
As indicated earlier, however, the nature of the klan's activities
bears directly on the existence of a pattern and practice of un-
lawful conduct and also on the sort of decree that should be issued.
The Government subpoenaed membership lists and records of the
klan. The defendants failed to produce these records and at the
hearing explained that all of the records of the klan had been
des-royed as a matter of klan policy after suit was filed. The Court
ordered Chrisu-nas, Farmer, and John Magee, the treasurer, to compile
from memory lists of officers and members. Counsel for the
defendants objected to the admissibility of the lists for the reasons
that': (1) there were no lists and records in the custody of the
defendants; (2) the requirement was an invasion of the rights of
privacy and association. The defendants did net rely on the Fifth
Amend-ment privilege against self-incrimination; tjr.ey relied o.i
NAAC? V. Alabama, 1958, 357 U.S. v. 449, 78 S. Ct. 1163 2 L. 2d
2d 1488. The Court overruled the cbjeccions.
NAACP V. Alabama does not support the defendants' position.
In z.'n.a.t case Justice Karlan, speaking for a unar.im.ous Court, held
that the rights of the meiriiers of the N.\.^CP to pursue their lawful
interests privately and to associate fraaly with others were pro-
tected by the 14th Amendment. Accordingly, the N.AACP was relieved of
the necessity of turning over its membership list to the State of
Alabama. In reaching that decision the Court distinguished New York
ex rel. Bryant v. Zim.merman, 1928,^278 U.S. 63, 49 S. Ct. 61,
a case
73 L. Ed. 184, /involving a New York Chapter of ;he Ku Klux Klan. A
New York statute required any unincorporated association which
demanded an oath as a condition to membership to file with state
officials copi'es of its "constitution, by-laws ... a roster of its
In Zim:T!erman
me-i>ership and a list of officers", /the Court found that the statutory
classification was reasonable, because of the "manifest tendency on
t'r.e part of one class to make the secrecy surrounding its purposes
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2483
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
ar.d niarabership a cloak for acts and co.-iduc; inir.iic il to persorral. rights
and public welfare. . . . ' It is a rattier of co.iiino i knowledge that this
organization [che klan] functions larg-sly a; night, its members disguised
by hoods and gowns and doing things calculiced to strike terror into the
minds of people'". The Supreme Court reaffirmed t^iis distinction in
XAACP V. Alabama. Justice Harlan pointed oat:
" [In Zimmerman] the Court took care to emphasize
the nature of the organization which New York
sought to regulate. The decision was based on the
particular character of the klan's activities, in-
volving acts of unlawful intimidation and violence
. . ■ . of which the Court itself took judicial notice. "
Here the defendants admit that the klan's methods are lawless. Albertson
Nov. 15,
V. Subversives Activities Board, /1965 U S. pretermits
the question at issue in Zimmerman and NAAC? v. Alabama.
C. Out of Their Own Mouths. (1) The Konstitution of the Original
Ku Klux Klan emBodies "the Supreme Law of the Realm". Article I states that
one of the objects of the organization is to "pro'cect and defend the Consti-
tution of the United States"; but another object ;.s to "maintain forever
Segregation of the races and the Divinely directed and historically proven
supremacy of the White Race". The preamble reaffirms "the principles for
which our forefathers mutually pledged and freely sacrificed their lives,
their fortunes, and their sacred honor two centuries ago" ; but Article II
limits the membership to "mature, Native-born, White, Gentile Men . . . who
profess and practice the Christian Faith bat who are not members of the
Rom.an Catholic Church".
(2) Printed with the Konstritution is a Proclamation stating that
it must be "STRICTLY ADHERED TO. " The Proclamation states that "ALL REALM
work is carried on by a chain of command", establishes the organization
along military lines, defines the duties of the various officers and com-
mittees, and describes "The Way of the Klavern".
"All Klaverns will have at least five armed- guards with flash-
lights posted during regular meetings. " However, "No one will be allowed
to carry a gur. inside the Klavern during regular meetings except the
Knight Hawk (Keeper of the Klavern ) . "
2484 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued |
.^ Klokar.'s (Klavern Investigator's) duty is "wO investigate all
questionable matters pertaining to the: Klaverr '. "Any Klansman
who is known to violate our rules, especially those that give
information to any aliens [non-iaeTJsers ] shall be expelled iircnediately,
then is to be watched and visi-.ted by the V/recking Crew if necessary".
(Erriohasis added. ) Moreover, each klan unit "vill set up at least
one taarr. of six men to be used for wrecking c::ev/. These men
should be appointed by the Klokan in secrecy". As judges charged
with the duty of drawing inferences from the demeanor of witnesses,
for
we observed that a former klansman exhibited uneasiness/ i-f— ao-t
fear of klan reprisals, whan questioned as to the function of
the klan "wrecking crew" . The defendants ' testimony relating to
the purpose .and functions of the wrecking crew was evasive. There
however
is no doubt/that the wrec^cing crew performed disciplinary functions
and that the discipline could be severe.
(3) The Oath of Allegience requires faithful obedience to the
"iClan's Konstitution and Laws", regulations, "rulings and
instructions of the Grand Dragon". "PROVIDE^^CS ALONE PREVENTING".
. Klansmen must swear "forever" to "keep sacredly secret . . . all ...
matters and knowledge of the * * * * [one asterisk is Klanese for
'Klan'; four asterisks mean "Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan]
, . . [and] never divulge same nor even cause same to be divulged
to any person in the whole world"/. As if this were not enough,
the Oath also requires klansmen to swear that they "solemnly vow
and most positively swear" never "to yield to bribe, threats,
passion, punisiunent, persecution, persuasion, nor any intice.ments
(sic) whatever . . . for the purpose of obtaining ... a secret
or secret information of the XXXX. " Section IV on "XXXX ISHNESS"
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2485
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
(^oes a little further. In this section of the oath the klansmen
r.v>ist sv.-^-r cc "'keep secret to [himself] a secret of a man committed
to I'.in; :-n the sacred bond of * manship. The crime of violating
•chis oath, treason against the United States of America, rape, and
malicious murder alone excepted. " (Emphasis added. ) In pure
klanese^ the kjansraain pledges his "life, property, vote, and sacred
honor" to uphold "unto death" the Constitution and "constitutional
laws". (Emphasis added.) But he ends by swearing that he will
"zealously shield and preserve . . . free segregated public schools,
white SUPREMACY. ••
(4) The "Boycott Rules" give a good idea of the Klan's
coercive tactics. For examgle:
"The Boycott Committee (one member from each local
unit appointed by the Exalted Cyclops) shall have
exclusive investigative authority and it shall not
act at° any time with less than three meirbers present. . . .
T? (1) No person or subject upon whom a boycott shall
have been placed shall be patronized by any member. . . .
Boycotts shall be imposed upon subjects who are
found to be violating the Southern traditions. . . .
q^ Boycotts shall be placed upon all members of the
Commiittee who publicly served with Basccm Talley in
his efforts to promote the Brooks Hays neeting.
'7' Boycotts shall be placed upon any merchant using
i^egro employees to serve or wait upon persons of the
white race. (Service Stations using Nee roes to pump
gas are excluded. )
-^f Boycotts shall be placed against a subject who serves
Negroes and whites on an integrated basis.
-■-■ Boycotts shall be placed upon a subject who allows
Negroes to use White rest rooms. . . .
'<- No member shall be punished for violation of the
rules by a member of his family under tuelve (12)
years of age.
". Any member who shall after a hearing have been found
guilty of personally patronizing a subject listed on
the boycott list shall be wrecked by the wrecking crew
who shall be appointed by the Committee. (Emphasis
added. ) . . .
JI-''. Second offense - If a member is found guilty of per-
sonally violating the boycott list he shall be wrecked
and banished from the Klan. "
It is not surprising that the attorneys for the United States
9
had difficulty extracting from klansmen answers %p 'questions.
2486 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
(5) In keeping with its false fron'c and as bait for the devout,
the Klc;n purports to perform its dirty wo::k in the name of Jesus
Christ. The first object stated in the "Objects and Purposes"
clause of the Kor.stitution of this a.nti-Roman Ca-holic, anti-
Ser.itic, hate-breeding organization is to "foster and promote the
tenets of Christianity". The Proclamation requi::es the Kludd
(Klavern Chaplain) to "open and close each meeting of the Klavern
with prayer". Setting some kind of a record for sanctimonious cant,
the Proclamation directs the Kludd to "study and be prepared to
explain the 12th chapter of ROiXiAKS at any time, as this is the
religious foundation of the Invisible Empire". ^Emphasis added)
Saint Paul, Apostle to the Gen'ciles, w;:ote his Epistle to
the Romans in Co^^inth, midway between Rome and Jerusalem. Address-
ing himself to Jews and Gentiles, he preached thu brotherhood of
man: "Glory, honour, and peace, to every man th;.t worketh good,
to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile;: For --here is no respect
10
of persons with God. " In the Twelfth Ch£.i>ter of Romans, Paul makes
a beautiful and moving plea for tolerance, for b:-otherly love, for
returning good for evil:
9 Let love be without dissimuls.tion. Abhor'
that which is evil; cleave to tr.c.t which is good.
10 3e kindly af fectioned one to anothe:' with
brotherly love; in honour preferring one: another; . . .
14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and
curse not. . . .
17 Recompense to no man evil for 'evil. Provide
things honest in the sight ^of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you,
live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not ycurselve.s, but
rather give place unto wrath: for it is. written.
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him;
if he thirst, give him drink; for in so doing thou
Shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 3e not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with
good. " ,
These words must fall on stony ground in the Klaverns of .a Klan.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2487
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
D. Socrific Findings of Klan Intimidation and Violence.
We sel._c'- the following exainples of the def enda its ' acts of intimi-
dac_cn ind violence. ,
(1) January 1, 1965, former Congressman Brooks Hays of
.-.--k^nsas, at the invitation of religious, business, and civic
leaders ■■f-sa:-; Bogalusa, was scheduled to speak in Bogalusa at
St. Matthews Episcopal Church Parish House on the subject of
coiTjaunity relations. The meeting was to be open to both Negroes
ind whites and it was planned that seating would be on a racially
non-segregated basis. After learning of the proposed appearance
of Mr. Hays and the arrangements for an unsegregated meeting,
the Klan and its members protested to the Mayor and the members
of the Commission Council and, by m>eans of threats of civil dis-
order and economic retaliation against local businessmen who
suppor-ed the meeting, caused the withdrawal of the invitation
to Mr. Kays to speak. December 18, 1964, before the Hays invita-
tion was withdrawn, the Mayor of Bogalusa and Police Comiuissioner
Arnold Spiers, in an effort to head off possible civil disorder,
appeared at a Klan meeting at the Disabled Veterans Hall. The
show of force at this meeting by over 150 hoodod Klansmen
unquestionably intimidated public cffici.als in Bogalusa and, later,
hindered e_fective police action ac-ainat Kl^n ^'iolence. On the
stand. Mayor Cutrer admitted that he v.';;;; "frigiitened when he
looked into 150 pairs of eves". '
(2) Since at least January 23, 1965, tr.e defendants,
including Saxon Farmer, Russell Magee, Dewey S;\ith, Randle C. Pounds,
Billy Alford, Charles McClendon, James I5urke, and other members of
the defendant Klan, have made a practice of go.Lng to places where
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 11
2888 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
they anticipated that Negroes would atteir.pt to exercise civil rights,
in order to harass, i;hreaten, and intimidate the Negroes and other
persons. For chis purpose, nembers of the defendant Klan have gone
to PranklinTion, Louisiana, when Negro citizens of Washington Parish
Were expected to apply to register as voters, 1". ave gone to restau-'
rants in Bogalusa when Negroes were seeking or were expected to seek
service, and have gone to locations in downtowr Bogalusa and near
the Bogalusa Labor Temple when Negroes were attempting or were
expected to demonstrate publicly in support of equal rights for
Negroes.
• (3) William Yatea and Stephen Miller, two CORE workers,
came to Bogalusa in January 1965. The Grand Dragon and Grand Titan
of the Klan, defendants Charles Chrisfcx.as and Saxon Farmer, appeared
at the Mayor's office t:o ask the Mayor to send William Yates and
Stephen Miller out of Bogalusa. Mayor Cutrer indicated that he
could do nothing. The next day, February 3, lSo5, three Klansmen,
James Kollingsworth, Jr. , James Hollingsworth, Sr. , and Delos
Williams, with two other persons, Doyle Tynes and Ira Dunaway,
attempted to insure Yates' and Miller's departure. This group
followed Yates and Miller and assaulted Yates.
(4) February 15, 1965, defendant Virgil Corkern, Klansman,
and approximately 30 other white persons attacked five Negro citizens
and damaged the car in which they were riding. This occurred because
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2489
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
th^ Xagroas had sought service at a gasoline station in Bogalusa.
On that sair.e day, Corkern and other persons gathered at Landry's
Fine Foods, a restaurant in Bogalusa, to observe Negroes seeking
service at the restaurant. Corker;; and one ot". ler entered the
restaurant brandishing clubs, orderijd thi Negroes to leave and
threatened co kill Sam Barnes, a member of the 3ogalusa Voters
League, who had cone to the restaurant with six Negro women.
(5) March 29, 1965, defendants Hardie Adrian Goings, Jr.,
Xlansman, and Franklin Harris, Klansman, shortly after meetings had
been held at the Bogalusa Labor Temple, threw an ignited tear gas
canister at a group of Negroes standing near the Labor ■Temple.
Goings, Jr. then tried to disguise his car by repainting it and
removing the air scoop from the top to prevent detection of this
crime. Goings or other Klansmen used this same car in May of 1964 to
burn a cross at the home of Lou Major, editor of the Bogalusa news-
paper.
(6) April 7, 1965, defendants Lattimore McNeese and
E. J. (Jack) Dixon, Klansman, threatened Negro citizens during the
course of a meeting at the Labor Temple by brandishing and exhibiting
a gun at Negroes standing outside the Labor Temple.
(7) April 9, 1965, defendants Billy Alford, Klansman,
Randle C. Pounds, Klansman, Lattimore McNeese, Charles McClendon, and
James Burke, Klansman, with other parsons, went to the downtown area
of Bogalusa . yhere Negro citizens v/ere participat-ing in a march to
the Bogalusa City Hall to protest. denial of equal rights. Pounds,
McClendon, and Burke, in a group, moved cut to attack the marchers.
Pounds assaulted the leader of the n-.arch, James Farmer, with a
blackjac'.-:; McClendon and Burke were temporarily deterred from the
threatened assault,' but immediately thereafter assaulted a newsman
2490 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
ar.d an ?3I age.nc. Alford assaultod one of the Kagroes participating
.n z.nc
...<:.— ^i^.
(S) May 19j lS65j Virgil Corkern, Kiansman^ two sons of
Virgil Corkern^ and other white persons went to Cassidy Park, a public
■recreation area maintained by the City of Bogalusa, for the purpose of
interfering with the enjoyiaenf of the park by Negroes and white CORE
workers who were present at the park and using the facilities for the
first time on a non-segregated basis. The Corkern group entered the
park and dispersed the Negro citizens v;ith clubs, belts, and other
weapons.
(S) Negro members -of the Bogaiusa Voters League, unable
to exercise their civil rights and also unable to obtain from police
officials adeqjiate protection from the Klan, filad suit June 25,
Civ. Ac. No. IS,: 27
1S65, in the case of Hicks v. Knight /in this Court. The complaint
asks for an injunction requiring officers of the City of Bogaiusa
to open the public parks and to operate sach par -cs witJ^out racial
discrimination, and also requiring law eaforceme.it officers of the
City, Parish, and State to protect the Kajro plaintiffs and other
Negroes from physical assaults, beatings, harass r.ent, and intimi-
dation at the hands of white citizens. July 10, 1965, this Court issued
an injunction in Hicks v. Knicht enjoini.ig certain city and parish law
enforcement 'officers from failing to use all reasonable means to pro-
tect the Negro plaintiffs and others similarly situated from physical
assaults and beatings and from haras smient and intimidation preventing
or discouraging the exercise of their rights to picket, assemble
peaceably, and advocate equal civil rights for Negroes. The prelimi-
nary injunction is still in full force and effect. Even after this
Ccurt issued its order July 10, 1955, the defendant Klansmen con-
tinued to interfere with Negro citizens exercising civil rights and
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2491
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued ,
interfered with perforr:.ance of the duties of law enforcement
officials under the injunction in Hicks v. Knight.
(10) July 11, 1S65, during a Negro march in downtown
Bogalusa, defendants Handle Pounds, Klansma.n, H. A. Goings, Jr. ,
Xlansr.an, Franklin Harris, Klansn^^an, and Kilton S. Parker were
prese.nt. Harris and Goings passed out 25-30 2x2 clubs to youths and
Pounds scauioned the youths along the inarch route. Parker was
arrested by a City policeman along the route of march for disburbing
the peace.
(11) Included in the exhibits are a nvjtiber of handbills
bearing the caption, "Published by the Oricinal Ki Klux Klan of
Louisiana". These are crude, scrrxlous c.ttacks c.n certain Bogalusa
citizens who advocatea a moderate approach to desegregation. For
exam.ple, in one handbill an Episcopal minister- is accused of lying
for having said that he had received calls threatening to bomb his
church; the miinister's son is said to be e.n alcoholic, to have
faced a morals charge in court, and to have been comjnitted to a
mental institution. The handbill adds:
"The Ku Klux Klan is now in the process of checking
on Reverend 's [naming him] moral standards.
If he is cleared you will be so infonried. If he is not
cleared, you will be informed of any and all m.isdeeds or
moral violation of his in the past. "
In the same handbill the Klan announced that it was "boycotting
businesses which cater to integration such as Mobile Gas Stations,
etc. " MobilcJ Gas Station is a business comipetitor of the defendant.
Grand Titan Saxon Farmer.
All of. the handbills attem.pt to intimidate public officials,
the Governor of Louisiana, the Congressman from, the Sixth District,
the Xayor of Bogalusa, and federal judges (by name'i,. 'Sometimes the
attempted intimidation is by threat of violence, sometimes by
2492 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
V7e quote,
liractcr assassination. / Jor example:
(a) "On numerous occasions we have:, been a.;'!<ed by local
officials to refrain from, any acts of violence upon
^his outside scum that has invaded cur city. Being a
christian organization, we have honored thcise requests
each time. Kov7 nuch longer can We continue??? Con-
trary to what the liberal elerr.enu v/ould have you think,
■chis memorandum is not the work of racist iind hate
mongers or trouble makers, as Governor 'Big John'
McKeithen calls us. We are God fearing wh:.te, southern-
ers who believe in constitutional government and the
preservation of our American heritage.
"If your governor would have done the right thing
uo suart. with, he would have refused to protect these
local and outside agitators and did jus.t what one great
southern governor did. He refused to protect this
outside element, (CORE, NAACP, S^CICK, ETC."), at the
expense of his state. He chose, instead, to let LBJ and
Katzenbach protect ther^. Only after the city of Bogalusa
had spent $96,000, did he (Big John KcKeithen) , make any
effort to ease the situation in this city. '■
'(b)"As the people tried to preserve ovir Southe:rn way of
life, the Mayor and Council were slowly selling the
people out at every turn. The Mayor has r€:peatedly
GIV2X in. JaiTies Farmer did not ha-Vi: the si.pport of the
local l^fegroes. Mayor Cutrer is not civ:-ng the city of
Bogalusa to the negro citizens of Lcgalusa. No. He is
giving the city to James Farr.ier and a handi ul of Negro
Teenagers.- NO PRESSURE was put on James Fc.rmer and Dick
Gregory to keep them out of Bogalusa.. Not by the Mayor,
the State Representative, the State: Senatoi', or Congress-
man Morrison. This w^s not so when the Uli: TE CONS ERV.^T IVES
wanted to stage a Rally. Pressure \Aas exerted from all
levels, even the invited guest speakers were 'leaned on'.
"The Governor, the Congressman, Jimmy Morrison, or
his com-rats, Suksty Rayborn, and Eusuer Sheridan. John
McXeithen asked for our vote and premised vo serve the
PEOPLE. We now ask. Big John, isn't this TRUE? What is
happening under your administration?
"Here is the list of elected officials who COULD &
AND SHOULD have helped the People of Bogalusa. '''All these
should be tarred and feathered;
MAYOR JESSIE CUTRER
REPRESENTATIVE SHERIDAN
SENATOR SIXTY RAYBORN
•.. .■ SHERIFF DORMAN CRCWE
CONGRESSMAN JIMMY MORRISON
GOVERNOR JOHN MCKEITHEN
SENATOR RUSSELL LONG " v ■
"Now the QUESTION. Why have these men, elected by
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2493
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
tho UTilTE people turned their l)ack on us in our time of
need?
"Is Commur.isra so close? Wio bought them? Who
bought their HONOR and FOR HOW XUCH?"
(c) "The :<u Klux Xlan is strongly organized in Bogalusa
and throughout Washington and St. Tamr.iany Parishes.
Being a secret organization, we have ICLAN members in
every conceivable business in this area. V^e will know
the names of all who are invited to the Brooks Hayes
meeting and we will know who did and did not attend this
meeting. Accordingly, we take this mieans to urge all of
you to refrain from attending this meeting. Those who
do attend this meeting will be tagged as intergrationists
a.id will be dealt with accordingly by the Knights of the
KU KLUX KLAN. "
E. Summary of the Facts. We find that the defendants have
admitted and the proof has shown that they intimidated, harassed,
and otherwise interfered with (1) Negroes exercising their civil
rights, (2) persons encouraging Negroes to assert their rights,
and (3) puj5lic officials, police officers, and other persons seeking
to accord Negroes their rights. These aces are part of a pattern
and practice of the defendants to maintain total segregation of the
races in Washington Parish. The pattern crec-tes an effect extending
beyond the effect of any particular c.ct or practice. A Negro who
is clubbed in a public park may feai- t.o order coffee in a segregated
sandwich shop or he may decide that it is th;i better part of valor
not to exercise voting rights. The ov;nar of the sandwich shop
who receives threatening calls for hc.\'ing se;-ved Negro patrons
m.ay co.iclude that taking care of his iiamily comes ahead of
hiring Negro employees. The intimidation or violence may be effec-
tive not only as to the particular individua„ against whom it is
directed but also as to others who may be le:;s courageous than the
Negroes brave enough to parade in Bogalusa or register to vote in
Franklinton.' The acts of terror and intimidation admitted or proved
in ehis case, acts characteristic of a masked, secret conspiracy,
can be halted only by a broad order enjoining the defendants
2494 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
frcr.; unlawfully interfering with che exorcise of civil rights
by Nogro citizens.
III.
Che defendants contend that, the cor.-.plain- fails to state
a claiiu upon which relief can be g;:antc;C.. They start with the
doctrine that the 14th and 15th Ant;nd.--.£:r.t3 appl.y only to state
action or action under color of state lz.\-i. A. This moves them
= 3 a matter of statutory construc^tion,
to concludej/that Congress did not purport to enforce civil
riches against private persons. Moreover, so t.hey argue, the
interference with interf erenc:e with
1957 Act applies to/"voting" not to/" registering" . B. And,
they say, if civil rights acts do authorize enforcement against
private persons {not owners 'or managers of a place of public
accorrjT.odation) the statutes are unconsti-cutionalo
A.
(1) The Civil Rights Act of 1957. In the field of civil
rights che problem of enforcerr.ent is more difficult than the
problem of legislative definition. The choice of remedy
detenr.ines whether an act of Congress simply declares a right
or carries machinery for meaningful performance of the statu-
tory promise. In the past, an obvious hiatus has been the
lack of effective sanctions against private persons inter-
fering with a citizen's exercise of a civil ric.it. This lack
may be explained by a number of reasons. ( s) Con-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2495
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued ,
gross has b^er. reluctant to assert aff irir.atively by legislation
its rosiior.sibility to protect the priviloc/ss and iixnunities of
citizens^ of chs United States, for fear «;: inper..ling the balanced
11
relationship between the states and the Nation, .b) Courts have
narrowly construed criminal sanctions available ;.n Section 241 and
12
242 of Ci-cle IS. (c) Congress and the courts have been severely
limited by the doctrine of state action, in spite of the trend
.13
toward an expansive view of what is state action. (d) Congress has
been wary of using an equitable remedy in civil rights legislation.
The Constitution guarantees an accused in a criminal case the right
;:o indictment by a grand jury and trial by a jury of the vicinage.
Enforce-ment of civil rights through the use of an injunction and
14
the contempt power of the courts would by-pass the jury system.
Hov/ever, in ccrfmunities hostile to civil rights and resentful
against "outside", that is, federal interference, injunctive relief
may be the most effective method of enforcing civil rights.
the pros and cons of these and many other issues when' '
Congress r-nnd r!o-ra.-^^/-!--,^s-3 -,-Tiri--v-.-' - .- ^r^— -»^^-.-.---"- --^-y-^-n— .-r^- - - n
15
the Administration submitted an omnibus civil richts bill in 1956.
The focal issues — the contempt power, the jury system, and the
relationship of the States with the Nation — produced one of the great
debates in Am.erican parliamentary history'. By the time the bill was
cut dov/n to a voting rights law, as the Civil Richts Act of 1957, 71 Stat.
/Congress and the country thoroughly understood the significance of
15
the legislation. Congress had opened the door, then nearly shut,
to national responsibility for protecting civil rights — created or
guaranteed by the Nation — by injunction proceedings against private
persons.
Part III of the Administration's bill, as originally proposed,
v;ouid have authorized the Attorney General to file,^uit against any
2496 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
: Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No, 2— Continued '
poi-son \vv.o doprivad or was about to dsprive any citizen of aay civil right.
Tho cor.-.pror.^ise that became the Civil Heights Act of 1957 limits civil actions
to proteccion of voting rights in special, general, or primary elections
where federal officers are elected.
Before i::s.e 1957 Act, Section 1971 (now 1971(a)) was enforced either
by an accior. for damages under 42 U. S.C.§19o3 and §2.985(3) or by a criminal
acwion under 13 U.S.C. §241, 242. The 1957 ..ct add^ four subsections to
17
Section 1971, including:
"b. yp parson, v/hether acting under color of law or other-
v.-jse, shall intimidate, threaten, or coerce any other person
for the purpose of interfering with ->.e righ; of such other
person to vote or to vote as he nay o>.oose, or of causing
such ofr.ar person to vot:a for, or no- no vota for, any candi'-
da-e for rhe office of President. V-ce President, presidential
elecucr, ICamber of the Senate, or Meiaser of ;he House of
Representatives, Delegated or Commis 3 Loners from the Terri-
wories or possessions, at any 'general, speciil, or primary
election held solely or in part for cne purpose of selecting
or electing any such candidate.
*
"c. T^rhenever any person has engaged or there are reasonable
grounds to believe that -any person is about co engage in any
act or practice which v;ould deprive ?..iv othe- person of any
richt or privilece secured b-'^ subsen-lcn ' e.) or (b) , the
Attorney General may insui^ute for tne Uniwei States, or in
the name of the United States, a civil action or other proper
proceeding for preventive relief, including an application
for a permanent or temporary injunction, restraining order,
or other order.; In any proceeding hereunder the United States
shall be liable for costs the same as a private person. "
(Emphasis added. ) •
"rae House Report on the Act — there was no Senate Report — clearly
states the purpose of the amendments to 1971:
'"-his section adds new matter. The provision is a further
declaration of the right to vote for federal offices. It
states clearly that it is unlav;ful for -a private indivi-
dual as well as one acting undet color of la// to interfere
or atteir.pt to interfere with the right to vote at any
general, special, or prim.ary election concerning Federal
offices. This amendir^ent, however, does not provide for
a'rem.edy. However, the succeeding subsection of the
am.endment, which is designated subsection (c) ,
I
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S. 2497
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No, 2— Continued
decs provide a rer.'.edy in f.-.o fci.v. of a dvii action
iilSwitutvsd ct. the pai't of iha A'l-tcrn^y caiieral. "
tlousa Roporw No. 2S1, to aGcoir.pc.r.y K.R. 6127, U.S.
^odo Co.-ig. and Ad.-n. ICsws 1966, ;.v77 (19o7) (2.-npha3is
.^.Ithough Congress narrowad tha cub j act r.atter of the statute
to voting rights, there is nothing narrov; about the scope of the Act
as to intarfarence with voting rights. l^he statute is not limited .
to physical acts or to direct interference with the act of voting
but applies to —
"any act or practice which \.-ould cepriv.i any other
parson of any right or privilege secured by subsec-
tion (a) or (b) . . . "
The statute applies to "any person" who shall —
"intimidate, threaten, coerce or attempt to intimi-
date, threaten or coerce for the purpose of inter-
fering with the right of such person to vote. "
There is no doubt that this language applies to private indi-
viduals. And there is very little doiibc. uhat the Act protects the
right to register and to engage in activities encouraging citizens to
register. As discussed more fully elsawhere, registration is an
O
integral, indispensable part of tha voting process. It is also a
stage that is vulnerable to abuse by the registrar or to unlawful con-
duct by private persons. 2ver sinca tha Supreme Court outlawed the
"white" Tirimarv, it has bean apparent that tha main battleground in
19
the war over Negro suffrage would be tha registration office. See,
for example, tha description of the activities of the Citizens
Councils and parish registrars in United States v. Louisiana, E.D.La.
1963, 225 F. Supp. 353, 378-80. Congress was wall aware that a
major mischief to be corabatted in the 1557 A.ct was economic coercion
and threats of intimidation by private parscns that would deny or
20
interfere v/^th the Negro's access to registration.
:':ore often than not, the .economic coercion and intimidation
bv ~_"iva'ce persons are triggered by an aiucaticnal campaign to
encourage registration. United Staces v. Beatty^ 6 Cir. 1961,
283 P. 2d 653 is a case in point. The case arose in Haywood
2498 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
County, 'Tanr.asseej a county in which nc Negroes were registered to
votv2. In the spring of 1959, a newly fcnriGd Civic and Welfare League,
. appcL.-cntly sir.ilar to the Bogalusa Voters Le;.gue, initiated a cam-
paign in Haywood and in Payette Counti.as to uncourage Negroes to regis-
ter. This led to the institution of £i "whito" primary in Fayette;
later prohibited by a consent decree ir. Apri.. 1960. In the face of a
renewed registration drive, white businessmen in both counties re-
taliated by circulating a "blacklist" contai;iing the names of the
Negroes who registered and white cit:.::ens who assisted them. The
businessmen induced local merchants to boyco'it anyone whose name ap-
peared on the list, by denying credit and tha right to buy necessities
through the usual business relations. White landowners evicted share-
croppers and tenant farmers who had registerad or whose names appeared
on the blacklist. The Attorney General sued the businessmen and land-
21
owners, under Section 1971, for i.T^.ediate injunctive relief. The
district judge granted a restrai.ning order enjoining the businessmen
fro.T. "interfering through intimidation and/or coercion", but refused
to enjoin the landowners on the ground that the Civil Rights Act did
not vast the court with authority "to adjudge contracts and property
rights". 6 Race Rel. L. Rep. 200. The Sixth Circuit affirmed the
judgment as to the businessmen and extended che injunction to the
22
landlords.
In East Carroll Parish, Louisiana, cotton growers refused to
gin cotton for Negro farmers who had attempted to register to vote. The
Attorney General again sued under the 1957 A^t. Judge Dawkins granted a
restraining order, as preventive relief, against owners, operators,
and managers of cotton gin businesses and certain other businesses.
The Court -restrained the defendants from "refusing to gin .....
refusing -co sell goods or services, and x.o conduct ordinary business
transac-ions with, any person for the purpose of discouraging or
dissuading such person from attempting to vcta and .. . . engaging
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IX THE U.S. 2499
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
ir. any atton-.ptea threats, ir.ti:. idaticns, c; coercio.n of any
nature, whether econon^.ic or otV. er\-.'i£e" . Ur ited S-ates v.
Deal, K. D.La. 1S31, S 5;aca :<el. L. Seis. •C7<.
The parallel between the dsrandants' intimidation by
and
ecor.or.ie eoercion in Baattv/ in Deal, and the defendants'
boycotc and other activities in this case is too patent
■^io be spelled out. Beattv and Da?.l also illustra'ce a
principle of enorrr.ous i-.portance in the enforcement of civil
rights: acts otherwise lav/ful .nay become unlawful and be
enjoined under Section 1971, if uhe purpose and effect of
the acts is to interfere with the right to vote.
In United "States v. Board of Education of Greene
Counuy, l-tssissippi, 1S64, 332 F. 2d -.0, the Pifth Circuit
affirmed the holding below that the governm.ent failed to
prove that uhe alleged intir.idaticn v;as for the purpose
of interfering with the right uo vote. But, as Judge
Tuttle explained in United States v. Bruce (not yet re-
ported, decided ICov. 16, 1SS5, ao. 22C23},the Court in
■ the Greene Cou~-cv case assumed;
"vrnereas a school board -.night, inder the
circumstances prese.it ...i that c ise, have
legally failed to r;;new i teach :r's con-
tract for any reason or for no reason at
all, if it in fact decl.^/.ed to renew the
[teacher's] certificate .is a me -ns of
coercing or intimi£.itin.j the te -cher as
to her right to vote, suoh cond :ct would
be prohibited under the .-.ct. "
In United States v. Bruce tv/e.ity-aig.t white persons
in V.'ilcox County, Alaba.ma, notified Dannie Drown, a Negro in-
surar.ce collector^ to stay off lar.d c^ned o.: controlled by then.
2500 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
As a result Brown could not reach many of his policy-holders.
Brown had been active in urging his Negro neighbors and friends
to register to vote in Wilcox County, a county where no Negroes
were registered. The Court held that the trial court erred in
dismissing the complaint:
"The background allegations make a strong
case upon which the trial court could
infer the correctness of the conclusionary
allegations that these defendants did in
fact 'intimidate and coerce' the Negro
citizens of Wilcox County, through the
person of Lonnie Brown, for the purpose
of interfering with their right to vote. "
We hold that the Civil Rights Act of 1957 applies to
private persons, including the defendants impleaded in this
case. We hold that the Act applies to interfering with the
right to register as well as interfering with the right to
vote; that the Act protects Negro citizens against the
coercion, intimidation, and violence the defendants admitted
or were proved to have committed in this case.
(2) The Civil Rights Act of 1964. The '64 Act creates
new categories of civil rights and extends the authority of
the Attorney General to protect such rights by a civil suit
for injunctive relief against any person, public or private.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2501
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
For purposes of this proceeding, the most pertinent provisions
are those relating to (a) places of public accommodation, (b) equal
employroent opportunities, and (c) public facilities. As clearly
as words can say, these provisions reach any person and any action
that interferes with the enjoyment of civil rights secured by the '
Act. Thus, 42 U.S.C. §2000a-2 of Title II, is not limited to pro-
hibiting discrimination or segregation by the owner or manager of
a place of public accommodation. The section provides:
"No person shall (a) withhold, deny, or attempt
to withhold or deny, or deprive or attempt to
deprive, any person of any right or privilege
secured by section 2000a or 2000a-l of this
title, or (b) intimidate, threaten, or coerce,
or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce
any person with the purpose of interfering with
any right or privilege secured by section
2000a or 2000a-l of this title, or (c) punish
or attempt to punish any person for exercising
or attempting to exercise any right or privi-
lege secured by section 2000a or 2000a-l of
this title. "
And to enforce the law. Section 2000a-5 (a) allows the Attorney
General to sue "any person or group of persons":
"Whenever the Attorney General has reasonable
cause to believe that any person or group of
persons is engaged in a pattern or practice
of resistance to the. full enjoyment of any of
the rights secured by this subchapter, and that
the pattern or practice is of such a nature
and is intended to deny the full exercise of
the rights herein described, the Attorney
General may bring a civil action requesting
such preventive relief, including an applica-
tion for a permanent or temporary injunction,
restraining order or other order against the
person or persons responsible for such pattern
or practice, as he deems necessary to insure
the full enjoyment of the rights herein de- .
scribed. " [Emphasis supplied. ]
Section 2000e-6 of Title VII, relating to equal employment oppor-
tunities, tracks the language of Section 2000a-5(a) .
This suit is not one to desegregate public facilities under
Title VII of the Act. However, Section 2000-b is relevant, since
it demonstrates again the broad Congressional objective of authorizing
the Attorney General to sue as defendants "such parties as are or
2502 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
become necessary to the grant of effective relief". The defendants'
interference with the right of Negroes to use public facilities in
Bogalusa is relevant to the cause of action, for that interference
was part of a pattern and practice of total resistance to the Negroes'
exercise of civil rights.
(3) In sum, in the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1964, Congress
recongnized that when a Negro is clubbed or coerced for having
attempted to register or for having entered a "white" restaurant,
the action most likely to produce effective relief is not necessarily
for the Negro to complain to the local police or to sue for damages
or to make charges under 18 USC 241, 242. The most effective relief
for him and for all others affected by the intimidation may be an
injunction by the Nation against the private persons responsible for
interfering with his civil rights.
Effectiveness of remedy is not the only reason for the
Congressional grant of authority to the Attorney General of the
United States. The Nation has a responsibility to supply a meaningful
remedy for a right it creates or guarantees. As Justice Story wrote,
in sustaining the constitutionality of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1793:
"If, indeed, the constitution guarantees the right, and
if it requires the delivery [of the fugitive slave] upon
the claim of the owner . . . , the natural inference cer-
tainly is, that the national government is clothed with
the appropriate authority and functions to enforce it.
The fundamental principle, applicable to all cases of this
sort, would seem to be, that when the end is required, the
means are given. . . " Prigg v. Pennsylvania, 1842, 41 U. S.
(17 Pet.) 539, 614.
It is one thing when acts are mere invasions of private rights; "it is
quite a different matter when Congress undertakes to protect the citi-
zen in the exercise of rights conferred by the Constitution of the
United States essential to the healthy organization of the government
itself". Ex parte Yarbrough, 1884, 110 U.S. 651, 665, 4 S.Ct. 152,
28 L.Ed. 274. We turn now to the defendants' constitutional arguments.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2503
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
B.
The defendants' constitutional arguments rest on a mis-
understanding of the constitutional sources for the Civil Rights
24
Acts of 1957 and 1964.
(1) The Civil Rights Act of 1957; Protection of Right
to Vote From Unlawful Interference. (aj In upholding the consti-
tutionality of the voting provisions of the 1957 Act^ we need not
25
consider the Civil War Amendments. Section 1971 (b), here en-
forced under 1971 (c) , is limited to prohibiting interference
with the right to vote in elections for federal office. Article I^
Section 4 of the Constitution is an express grant of authority to
Congress to regulate federal elections:
"The times, places and manner of holding elec-
tions for senators and representatives, shall
be prescribed in each State by the legislature
thereof; but the Congress may at any time by
' Law make or alter such regulations, except as
to the places of choosing Senators. "
As the House Committee pointed out in its report on the
law. United States v. Classic, 1941, 313 U.S. 299, 61 S. Ct. 1031,
85 L.Ed. 1368, "establishes the authority in Congress to legis-
late concerning any and all elections affecting federal officers,
whether general, special, or primary, as long as they are ' an
integral part of the procedure of choice or where in fact the
primary effectively controls their choice.'" U.S. Code Cong, and
Adm. News, 85 Cong. 1957, p. 1977. The Supreme Court said, in
Classic :
"While, in a loose sense, the right to vote for
representatives in Congress is sometimes spoken
of as a right derived from the states, [cita-
tions omitted] this statement is true only in the
sense that the states are authorized by the Con-
stitution, to legislate on the subject as pro-
vided by §2 of Art. I, to the extent that
Congress has not restricted state action by
the exercise of its powers to regulate elections
under §4 and its more general power under Article
I, §8, clause 18 of the Constitution "to make all
laws which shall be necessary and proper for
carrying into execution the foregoing powers.'"
2504 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
(b) Under the "sweeping clause". Article I, Section 8, Clause
18, Congress may enact all laws "necessary and proper" to carry
out any of its powers, including, of course, its power to regu-
late federal elections. This provision leaves to Congress the
choice of the means to execute its powers. "Let the end be
legitimate, let it be within the scope of the Constitution, and
all means which are appropriate, which are plainly adapted to that
end, which are not prohibited, but consist with the letter and
spirit of the Constitution are constitutional". McCulloch v.
Maryland, 1819, 4 Wheat. 316, 421.
"There is little regarding an election that is not in-
cluded in the terms 'time, place and manner of holding it'".
United States v. Munford, 1833, C. C. , E.D.Va., 16 F. 223. The
Supreme Court has said:
"It cannot be doubted that these comprehensive
words embrace authority to provide a complete
code .for congressional elections, not only as
to times and places, but in relation to notices,
registration, supervision of voting, protection
of voters, prevention of fraud and corrupt prac-
tices, counting of votes, duties of inspectors
and canvassers, and making and publication of
election returns; in short, to enact the
numerous requirements as to procedure and
safeguards which experience shows are necessary
in order to enforce the fundamental right in-
volved. " Smiley v. Holm, 1932, 285 U.S. 355,
366, 76 L.Ed. 795.
Two facts make it appropriate for Congress to reach registra-
as part of the "manner of holding elections".
tion/ First, registering is a prerequisite to voting. Second,
registration is a process for certifying a citizen as a qualified
voter in both federal and state elections. A law protecting the
rig'nt to vote could hardly be appropriate unless it protected the
26
right to register. In Classic language, registering is a "neces-
sary step" and "integral" in voting in "elections". In Classic.
"interference with the effective choice of the voters" in a
Louisiana Democratic primary was interference "at the only stage
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2505
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
of the election procedure when their choice is of significance".
Kere, in terns of a meaningful right to vote, interference with
Negro citizens' registering is interference at the most critical
It is true of course that
stage of the election procedure./ tne framers of the Constitution
neither they
did not know about the registration process; but/^hey didAo^ have
in mind the selection of senators and representatives by the
direct primary. In United States v. Louisianaj E.D.La. 1963,
on other grounds,
225 F. Supp. 353, 359, aff'd./19S5, 380 U.S. 145 this Court
said:
"Congressional authority [under Article I, §4] ex-
tends to registration, a phase of the electoral
process unknown to the Pounding Fathers but today
a critical, inseparable part of the electoral
process which must necessarily concern the United
States, since registration to vote covers voting
in federal as well as in state elections.
In United States v. Manning, W. D.La. 1963, 215 F. Supp. 272, one
of the constitutional attacks on the Civil Rights Act of 1960 was
directed at the provision for federal registrars. In the opinion
upholding the set, the Court co.isidered it important that —
"For purposes of accomplishing the constitutional
objective the electoral process is indivisible.
The act of casting a ballot in a voting booth
cannot be cut away from the rest of the process.
It is the last step in a process that starts with
registration. Similarly, registration is an in-
divisible part of elections. . . . There is no
separate registration for federal elections. Any
interference with the qualified voter's right to
register is therefore interference with a federal
election." 215 P. Supp. at 283.
''•^> Classic relied on three important cases that construe the
nature and extent of the power of Congress to regulate federal
elections: Ex parte Siebold, 1880, 100 U.S. 371, 25 L.Ed. 717;
Ex parte Yarbrough, The Ku Xlux Klan cases, 1884, 110 U. S. 651,
4 S.Ct. 152, 23 L.Ed. 274; and Burroughs v. United States, 1934,
290 U.S. 534, 54 S.Ct. 287 , 78 L.Ed. 485. I:i..c;u_i, Tnese cases
2506 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
point Z.O the principle that a congressional statute protecting
against private interference before the voting stage is necessary
and proper legislation under Article I, Section 4, whenever it is
reasonably related to "protection of the integrity" of the federal
electoral process. Classic, 313 U. S. at 316.
5x parte Siebold involved a conviction of state election
officers for ballot-stuffing in a federal election. The Court had
before it the Snforcerr.ent Act from which Section 1971 was derived.
The statute contained a number of extensive voting and registration
regulations^ including a provision for the appointment of federal
election supervisors. These supervisors were authorized "to
cause such names to be registered as they may think proper to be
so marked". In sustaining the validity of the legislation under
Article 1, Section 4, the Court corrjr.ented:
"it is the duty of the States to elect representa-
tives to Congress. The due and fair election of
these reoresenta.tives is of vital importance to
the United States. The governrient of the United
States is no less concerned in the transaction
than the State government is. It certainly is not
bound to stand bv as a passive spectator.
when
duties are violated and outraceous frauds
are
ccrrrnitted. It is directly interested in the
faithful performance, by the officers of election,
of their respective duties. Those duties are
owed as well to the United States as to the State. "
100 U. S. 338
In Yarbrouqh the Court had before it the question whether
Congress could protect civil rights agains;i private interference,
specifically klan aggression in the form of intimidation of voters.
Yarbrough and eight other members of a Georgia klan were indicted
for conspiring to intimidate a Negro in the exercise of his right
to voce for a congressional representative. It was shown that
they used physical violence and that they went in disguise upon
the public highways. They were convicted under the section of the
that was
Enforce.T.ent Act of 1870, Revised Statutes Section 5508, /the pre-
also under
decessor of 18 U. S.C. §241; a.nd/section 5520. These are the
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2507
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
criminal law counterpart to 42 U.S.C, 1971. The Act forbade two
or more persons "to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten or
intimidate any citizen in the free exercise or enjoyment of any
right or privilege secured to by the Constitution or laws of the
United States" or to "go in disguise on the highway, or on the
premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder [such
citizen in] his free exercise or enjoyment" of any such right; or
to "conspire to prevent by force, intimidation, or threat, any
citizen who is lawfully entitled to vote" from voting for presi-
dential electors or members of Congress. Justice Miller, in a
powerful opinion for the Court, sustained the conviction and held
the statute valid. The opinion made it clear that the right to
vote in federal elections is a privilege of national citizenship
derived from the Constitution. Congress therefore "can by law
protect the act of voting, the place where it is done and the
man who votes, from personal violence or intimidation, and the
election itself from corruption or fraud. " Nor does it matter
that state and federal offices are elected in the same election.
The congressional powers are not "annulled because an election
for state officers is held at the same time and place". 110
U.S. at 660.
The heart of the Yarbrough decision is the Court's emphasis
on the transcendent interest of the federal government. The
violence and intimidation to which the Negro was subjected were
they
important because/ite alloyed the purity of the federal political
process. The federal government "must have the power to protect
the elections on which its existence depends from violence and
corruption". 110 U.S. at 658. This implied power arises out of
governmental necessity. The Court said:
2508 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
"The power in either case arises out of the cir-
cumstance that the function in which the party is
engaged or the right which he is about to exer-
cise is dependent on the laws of the United States.
"In both cases it is the duty of that government
to see that he may exercise this right freely and
to protect him from violence while so doing or
on account of so doing. This duty does not arise
solely from the interest of the party concerned,
but from the necessity of the government itself,
that its service shall be free from the adverse
influence or force and fraud practiced on its
agentSj and that the votes by which its members
of Congress and its President are elected shall
be the free votes of the electors, and the officers
thus chosen the free and uncorrupted choice of
those who have the right to take part in that
choice. "
Since it is the purity of the federal political process that must
be protected, the protection may be extended against interference
with any activity having a ratiaialrelationship with the federal
political process. Thus, the "rationale of Yarbrough indicates
congressional power over voting, though limited to federal elec-
tions, extends to voter registration activities", including
registration rallies, voter education classes, and other activities
28
intended to encourage registration.
Burroughs is one of a number of cases dealing with corrupt
election practices which go far beyond the act of voting in an
election. Thearfi^tfM operate on the campaigning stage rather than
the voting stage and apply to private persons having no part in the
election machinery. In Burroughs the contention was made that
under Article II, Section 1 the states control the manner of
appointing presidential electors; Congress is limited to prescribing
the time of choosing electors and the day on which they cast their
votes. In upholding the validity of the Federal Corrupt Practices
Act of 1925, the Court, relying on Yarbrough. said:
"While presidential electors are not officers or
agents of the federal government . . . , they
exercise federal functions under, and discharge
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2509
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
duties in virtue of authority conferred by, the
Constitution of the United States. The presi-
dent is vested with the executive power of the
nation. The importance of his election and the
vital character of its relationship to and ef-
fect upon the welfare and safety of the whole
people cannot be too strongly stated. To say
that Congress is without power to pass ap-
propriate legislation to safeguard such an
election from the improper use of money to
influence the result is to deny to the nation
in a vital particular the power of self-protec-
tion. Congress undoubtedly, possesses that
power, as it possesses every other power es-
sential to preserve the departments and institu-
tions of the general government from impairment
or destruction, whether threatened by force or
by corruption." 110 U.S. at 545
The states ' power over the manner of appointing presidential
electors is similar to the states reserved power to establish
voting qualifications. Notwithstanding this unquestioned power
in the states, "Burroughs holds that 'Congress' has the implied
power to protect the integrity of the processes of popular election
of presidential electors once that mode of selection has been
chosen by the state. " There is an obvious parallel between cor-
ruption of the federal electoral process by the use of money and
corruption of the same process by acts of violence and intimidation
that prevent voters from getting on the registration rolls or,
indeed, from ever reaching the registration office.
Classic involved federal indictments against state election
commissioners for falsely counting ballots in a Democratic party
primary. The Court held that under Article I, Section 4 and the
necessary and proper clause, Congress had the implied power to
regulate party primaries. The "interference [was] with the effec-
tive choice of voters at the only stage when their choice is of
significance. . . . The primary in Louisiana is an integral part
of the procedure for the popular choice of Congressmen". The right
to choose is a right "secured by the Constitution". 313 U.S. at 314.
2510 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE TJ.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
Moreover, "since the constitutional command is without restriction or
limitation, the right, unlike those guaranteed by the Fourteenth and Fif-
teenth Amendments, is secured against the action of individuals as well as
of states. " lb, at 315 Mr. Justice Stone, for the Court, spelled out the
rationale:
"The right to participate in the choice of representatives
for Congress ... is protected just as the right to vote
at the election, where the primary is by law made an in-
tegral part of the election machinery. . . . Unless the
.constitutional protection of the integrity of 'elections'
extends to primary elections. Congress is left powerless
to effect the constitutional purpose. . ." 313 U.S. at 318, 319.
The innumerable cases in this Circuit involving civil rights
speak eloquently against the use of economic coercion, intimidation, and
violence to inhibit Negroes from applying for registration. This inter-
ference with nationally guaranteed rights, whether by public officials
or private persons corrupts the purity of the political process on which
the existence and health of the National Government depend. No one has
expressed this better than Judge Rives in United States v. Wood, 5 Cir.
29
1961, 295 F.2d 772; cert, denied 369 U.S. 850(1962). In Wood the inter-
organizer
ference was in the form of groundless prosecution of a Negro/who had set
up a registration school in Walthall County, Mississippi, where no Negroes
had ever registered. He was not even qualified to vote in the county
where the intimidatory acts occurred; he was a resident of another county.
In reversing the district judge's refusal to stay the state prosecution,
the Fifth Circuit noted that the alleged coercion was of the kind the
1957 Act was intended to reach. Judge Rives, for the Court, said:
"The foundation of our form of government is the consent
of the governed. Whenever any person interferes with the
right of any other person to vote or to vote as he may
choose, he acts like a political termite to destroy a part
of that foundation. A single termite or many termites may
pass unnoticed, but each damages the foundation, and if
that process is allowed to continue the whole structure
may crumble and fall even before the occupants become
aware of their peril. Eradication of political termites,
or at least checking their activities, is necessary to
prevent irreparable damage to our Government. "
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S. 2511
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
We hold that the defendants' acts of economic coercion, intimi-
dation, and violence directed at Negro citizens in Washington Parish
for the purpose of deterring their registering to vote strike at the
integrity of the federal political process. The right to vote in
federal elections, a privilege of national citizenship secured by the
United States Constitution, includes the right to register to vote.
The right to register to vote includes the right to be free from
public or private interference with activities rationally related to
registering and to encouraging others to register.
(2) The Civil Rights Act of 1964; Public Accommodation.
The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of Title II as it
applies to motels and restaurants. Atlanta Motel v. United States,
1964, 379 U.S. 241, 85 S. Ct. 348, 13 L.Ed. 2d 258; Katzenbach v.
McClung, 1964, 379 U.S. 294, 85 S. Ct. 377, 13 L.Ed. 2d 290.
The defendants are left, therefore, only with the contention
that the Act, for reasons not articulated, should not reach private
persons.
The defendants are really arguing against the judgment of
Congress in selecting injunctive relief against private persons as
one method of enforcing congressional policy. Once it is conceded
that Congress has the power, under the commerce clause, to forbid
discrimination in public places, there is little doubt that injunctive
relief against any person seeking to frustrate the statutory objective
is appropriate.
In this Circuit, relying on In re Debs, 1895, 158 U.S. 564,
15 S. Ct. 900, 39 L. Ed. 1092, the courts have held that when
private persons burden commerce to the detriment of the national
interest, the Nation may enjoin such persons even without enabling
legislation. On two occasions courts have issued
2512 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX' THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
injunctions against klans and klansraen engaged in intimidation and
violence burdening commerce. United States v. U.S. Klans, M.D.Ala.
1961, 194 F. Supp. 897; Plummer v. Brock, M.D.Fla. 1964, 9 R. Rel.L.
Rep. 1399. See also United States v. City of Jackson, 5 Cir. 1963,
318 F.2d. 1.
(3) The Civil Rights Act of 1964; Equal Employment Oppor-
tunities. Title VII, like Title II, is based upon the comrr^erce
clause. The term "industry affecting commerce" used in Title VII
parallels the definition of "industry affecting commerce" in the
LMRDA (29 U. S.C. 402 (c)). This in turn incorporates the definition
of "affecting commerce" in the NLRA (29 U.S.C. 152 (7)). The
National Labor Relations Act represents an exercise of congressional
regulatory power to "the fullest jurisdictional breadth constitu-
tionally permissible under the Commerce Clause, " NLRB v. Reliance
Fuel Corp., 1963, 371 U.S. 224, 226; Polish National Alliance v.
NLRB, 1944, 322 U.S. 643, 647, a conclusion equally applicable to
Title VII,
The sweeping regulations in the NLRA and LMRDA covering the
terms, conditions, and policies of hiring and bargaining do not
differ in any essential respect from this legislation prohibiting
discrimination in hiring practices and on the job assignments. The
employer- employee relationship has, of course, direct effect upon
the production of industries which are in commerce and upon the
practical utilization of the labor force and the power of Congress
to regulate these activities cannot be doubted. NLRB v. Jones &
Laughlin Steel Corp., 1936, 301 U.S. 1; NLRB v. Fainblatt, 1939,
306 U.S. 601, 606; Mabee v. White Plains Publishing Co., 1946, 327
U.S. 178.
Defendants admit that they beat and threatened Negro pickets
to prevent them from enjoying the righ^^equal employment opportunity.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S. 2513
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
The effect of course is to prevent Negroes from gaining free access
to potential employers. Such acts not only deter Negroes but
intimidate employers who might otherwise wish to comply with the
law but fear retaliation and economic loss. This is precisely what
the klan's Boycott Rules are designed to do.
* * *
The United States has alleged, the defendants have admitted,
and the proof has shown that the defendants have intimidated,
harassed, and in other ways interfered with the civil rights of
Negroes secured by the Constitution. The admission and proof
show a pattern and practice of interference.
Protection against the acts of terror and intimidation
committed by the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the
individual defendants can be halted only by a broad injunctive
decree along the lines of the order suggested by the United States.
The Court will promptly issue an appropriate order.
S ''' .■X}j:.-^J^-'^^^''^
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2514 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
United States of America v. Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, et als.
Civil Action No. 15793
FOOTNOTES
* Although this order is cast in the form of an opinion, it re-
presents the Court's findings of fact and conclusions of law.
1. Counsel for the individual defendants take the position that the
defendant klan does not exist. The proof shows that the klan con-
tinues to exist and to function as a klan in the benign name of the
"Anti -Communist Christian Association". See Section II, A of this
opinion.
2. Report of the Joint Select Committee to Inquire into the Condi-
tion of Affairs in the Late Insurrectionary States (Wash. 1872) ,
p. 28. (Majority Report.)
3. Testimony of General Forrest before the Joint Select Committee.
Note 2, p. 6-14, 449-51.
4. In January 1869 General Forrest issued an order to disband which
began "Whereas, the order of the Ku Klux Klan is in some localities
being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes. . . '
Davis, Authentic History: Ku Klux Klan, 125-28, (N." Y. 1928);
Carter, The Angry Scar, 216 (N. Y. 1959).
5. "There is no doubt about the fact that great outrages were
committed by bands of disguised men during those years of lawlessness
and oppression. The natural tendency of all such organizations is
to violence and crime; hence it was that General Forrest and other
men of influence in the state, by the influence of their moral power,
induced them to disband. " Report of the Joint Select Committee,
Note 2, p. 463. (Minority Report.)
6. In United States v. Raines, 1959, 362 U.S. 17, 27, 80 S. Ct. 519,
4 L.Ed. 524 upholding the constitutionality of the Civil Rights Act
of 1957 in a suit on behalf of private persons against public offi-
cials, the Court said: "It is urged that it is beyond the power of
Congress to authorize the United States to bring this action in sup-
port of private constitutional rights. But there is the highest
public interest in the due observance of all the constitutional
guarantees, including those that bear the most directly on private
rights, and we think it perfectly competent for Congress to authorize
the United States to be guardian of that public interest in a suit
for injunctive relief. "
7. The parishes of Washington, Tangipahoa, St. Tammany, St. Helena,
Livingston, Ascension, East Feliciana, West Feliciana, East Baton
Rouge, West Baton Rouge, Pointe Coupee, and Iberville.
8. Aff d. sub. nom. United States v. Thomas 1962, 362 U.S. 58
S.Ct. L.Ed.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2515
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
9. On two occasions, the Court found it necessary to warn the
witnesses of the penalty for perjury. The Court recessed the hearing
to allow time for the witnesses to refresh their recollection, and to
find, if possible, any membership lists. On one occasion, a witness
pleaded the 5th Amendment when, in a colloquy with the Court, it was
apparent that he was afraid of klan reprisal for testifying as to
klan records; he withdrew his plea of privilege and testified.
10. Romans, Chap. II, v. 10-11.
11. See United States v. Cruikshank, 1875, 92 U.S. 542, 23 L.Ed. 588;
Slaughter-House Cases, 1873, 16 Wall 36, 21 L.Ed. 394.
12. In 1894 Congress repealed most of the provisions dealing with
federal supervision of elections. Two general provisions for
criminal sanctions were left standing: 42 U.S.C. §241 (originally
Section 6 of the Civil Rights Act of 1870, later Section 5508 of
the Revised Statutes) providing criminal sanctions against conspiracies
to deprive any citizen of any right secured by the Constitution and
laws of the United States; and 42 U.S.C. §242 (originally Section 2
of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, later Section 5510 of the Revised
Statutes (1873), as amended in 1909, 35 Stat. 1092 by adding the
word "wilfully") providing criminal sanctions against the deprivation
of constitutional rights, privileges, and immunities under color of
state law. See United States v. Williams, 1951, 341 U. S. 70,
71 S.Ct. 581, 95 L.Ed. 758 restricting Section 241 to those cases
in which the right allegedly violated is an incident to national
citizenship. See also Screws v. United States, 1945, 325 U.S. 91,
65 S.Ct. 1031, 89 L.Ed. 1495 construing Section 242 as requiring
specific intent to deprive a person of the right made specific by
the Constitution or laws of the United States. , Sections 241 and 242
are now before the Supreme Court again. United States v. Price,
Nos. 59, 60, October Term, 1965; United States v. Quest, No. 65,
October Term, 1965.
13. See Civil Rights Cases, 1883, 109 U.S. 3, 3 S.Ct. 18, 27 L.Ed.
835; United States v. Reese, 1876, 92 U.S. 214, 23 L.Ed. 478.
14. Hence the compromise affecting jury trials in the 1957 Act:
criminal contempt cases arising under the act may be tried by
district courts without juries, except where a person convicted is
fined more than $300 or imprisoned for more than 6 months. 71 Stai.
638 (1957), 42 U.S.C. 1995.
15. President Truman's Committee on Civil Rights submitted equally
broad recommendations. See Report, To Secure These Rights, 151-161
(1947) .
16. In a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee on the Civil
Rights Bill, Attorney General Herbert Brownell explicitly explained
the purposes and scope of the proposed amendments to Section 1971
of Title 42:
"The most obvious one of these defects in the law is
that it does not protect the voters in Federal elec-
tions from unlawful interference with their voting
rights by private persons — in other words, 1971 ap-
plies only to those who act 'under color of law'
2516 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
which means public officials, and the activities
of private persons and organizations designed to
disenfranchise voters in Federal or State elec-
tions on account of race or color are not covered
by the present provisions of 1971. And so we
say that the statute fails to afford the voters
full protection from discrimination which was
contemplated by the Constitution, especially the
14th and 15th amendments.
"Also this section 1971 is defective in another re-
spect, because it fails to lodge in the Department
of Justice and the Attorney General any authority
to invoke civil remedies for the enforcement of
voting rights. And it is particularly lacking in
any provision which would authorize the Attorney
General to apply to the courts for preventive
relief against the violation of these voting rights.
"And we think that this is also a major defect. The
ultimate goal of the Constitution and the Congress is
the safeguarding of the free exercise of the voting
right, acknowledging of course, the legitim.ate power
of the State to prescribe necessary and fair voting
qualifications. And we believe that civil proceed-
ings by the Attorney General to stop any illegal
interference and denial of the right to vote would
be far more effective in achieving this goal than
the private suits for damages which are presently
authorized by the statute, and far more effective
than the criminal- proceedings which are authorized
under other laws which, of course, can never be used
until after the harm has been actually done.
"No preventive measures can be brought under the
criminal statutes. So I think — and I believe you
will agree with me — that Congress should now
recognize that in order to properly execute the
Constitution and its amendments, and in order to per-
fect the intended application of the statute, section
1971 of title 42, United States Code, should be
amended in three respects:
"First, by the addition of a section which will pre-
vent anyone, whether acting under color of law or
not, from threatening, intimidating or coercing an
individual in his right to vote in any election,
general, special, or primary, concerning candidates
for Federal office.
"And second, to authorize the Attorney General to
bring civil proceedings on behalf of the United
States or any aggrieved person for preventive or
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S. 2517
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
other civil relief in any case covered by the
statute.
"And third, an express provision that all State
administrative and judicial remedies need not be
first exhausted before resort to the Federal
courts. " [Hearings before Subcommittee No. 5 of
the Committee on the Judiciary, 85th Cong. 1st
Sess., p. 570 (1957)]
17. Section 1971(a) derived from the Civil Rights Act of 1870, de-
fined voting rights as follows:
"(a) All citizens of the United States who are other-
wise qualified by law to vote at any election by
the people in any State, Territory, district, county,
city, perish, township, school district, municipality,
or other territorial subdivision, shall be entitled and
allowed to vote at all such elections, without dis-
tinction of race, color, or previous condition of
servitude; any constitution, law, custom, usage, or
regulation of any State or Territory, or by or under
its authority, to the contrary notwithstanding".
18. See Section III, B, (l),(b) of opinion.
19. See Key, Southern Politics 555(1949) ; Civil Rights Commission
Report 133-38(1961) .
20. In a note, Beatty. Private Economic Coercion and the Civil Rights
Act of 1957, 71 Yale L. Jour. 536, 543(1962), the author points out:
"The Circuit Court's construction of the 1957 act to
apply to economic coercion in general and to economic
coercion involving contract and property rights in
particular seem.s correct. In requesting legislation
to protect voting rights. President Eisenhov/er noted:
'It is disturbing that in som.e localities allegations
persist that Negro citizens are being deprived of
their right to vote and are likewise being subjected
to unwarranted economic pressures. ' Senator Douglas,
a sponsor of the bill, asserted that the legislation
was directed at denials of voting rights 'by economic
pressure' as well as by other m.eans. And Representa-
tive Celler, a House sponsor, indicated that if 'the
milk dealer, the coal dealer, the butcher, the baker
and the candlestick maker . . .agree . . . to boycott'
persons who try to vote, the agreement would violate
the proposed law. "
21. The Attorney General brought a similar suit to enjoin "intimi-
dation, threat, and coercion" in Fayette County. United States v.
Atkinson, et als, Civ.Ac. 4121, 6 R. Rel. L. Rep. 200(1962). See
Mendelson, Discrimination (Pren.Hall 1962) 21. And see United States
V. Ellis, W.D.S.C. 1942, 43 F. .Supp. 321, 324.
2518
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S.
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
22. The Sixth Circuit said:
"If sharecropper- tenants in possession of real estate
under contract are threatened, intimidated or coerced
by the landlords for the purpose of interfering with
their rights of franchise, certainly the fact that
the coercion relates to land or contracts would furnish
no excuse or defense to the landlord for violating the
law. " 288 F. 2d 653, 656.
23. Judge Tuttle added:
"Thus, although the defendants here may have had an
almost restricted right to invoke the Alabama tres-
pass law to keep all persons from entering upon their
property after warning, in the exercise of a desire
to exercise exclusive ownership and proprietary
interest in their property, they could not legally
invoke the right of excluding Lonnie Brown, who
had previously been given free access to the
property, as a threat or means of coercion for the
purpose of interferincr with his right or the right
of others whom he represented in exercising their
right to register and vote. "
24. The Supreme Court has affirmed the constitutionality of various
provisions of the 1957 Act on other grounds than those at issue here.
United States v. Thomas, 1960, 362 U.S. 58, 80 S.Ct. 512, 4 L.Ed.
2d 535; United States v. Raines, 1960, 362 U.S. 17, 80 S.Ct. 519,
4 L.Ed. 2d 524; Hannah v. Larche, 1960, 363 U.S. 420, 80 S.Ct. 1502,
4 L.Ed. 2d 1307.
25. Although a statute that is "necessary and proper" legislation
to carry out the power of Congress to regulate elections for federal
office may also be "appropriate legislation" to "enforce" the pro-
visions of the 15th, 14th, and 13th amendments. The predecessor of
Section 1971(a) withstood attack on constitutional grounds. In re
Engle, 8 Fed. Cas. C. C.D.Kd. 1877, 716, No. 4,438. It was held to be
a valid exercise of congressional power under the 15th Amendment.
Chapman v. King, 5 Cir. 1946, 154 F. 2d 460, cert. denied, 327 U.S. SCO;
Xellogg v. Warmouth, C.C.D.La. 1872, 14 Fed. Cas. 257, >To. 7,657.
The Voting Rights Act of 1965 rests, in part, on Section 2 of
the 15th Amendment.
26. "An abundance of judicial dicta and holdings in analogous situa-
tions make clear that the federal power to regulate elections extends
equally to the registration process. Any matter affecting the
character or choice of the federal electorate is so integrally related
to the election ultimately held as to come within the 'holding' of
the election under article I, section 4. " Van Alstyne, Anti-literacy
Test Legislation, 51 Kich. L. Rev. 805, 815(1963).
1
ACTIVITIES OF KV KLUX KLAX IX THE U.S. 2519
Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2— Continued
28. Corrjnent, Federal Civil Action Against Private Individuals
for Crimes Involving Civil Rights. 74 Yale L.Jour. 1462. 1470(1965).
And see Maggs and '■Jallace, Congress and Literacy Tests, 27 Dv.rce L. &
Cont.Prob. 510, 517-521(1962).
29. In that case Hardy.^JSTegro resident of Tennessee, a nerfoer of the
"Student Non-Violent Coordinating Coir^ittee", was in Walthall Cou.nty,
Mississippi for the purpose of organizing Negroes of that county to
register and vote. Flardy engaged in an arg'oiiTent wit?n the registrar.
The registrar ordered him to leave the office. As he got to the
door, the registrar struck hir. on the back of the head, v.'ith a re-
volver. Hardy wa? arrested and charged with a breach of the peace.
The Court hurdled (1) the fact that Kardy was not eligible to register
and therefore his right to vote was not interfered with; (2) the
appeal was from a denial of a request for a tem.porary restraining
order, generally an unappealebile order under 28 U.S.C. 1291, 1292;
(3) the prosecution was a state criminal court proceeding, protected
by the doctrine of comity and Section 2283 severely restrictinc
federal injunctions of state proceedings.
30. The Court finds that on the admissions and. on the evidence
adduced at the hearing, a preliminary injunction should not issue
against Charles Ray Williams, Louis Applewhite, and Willis Blackwell.
The Court does not enter a judgment of dismissal as to these defendants,
because the United States expressly reserved the right to introduce
additional evidence at the hearing for permanent relief, as to these
and other defendants. At the time of the hearing, Blackv/ell had not
been correctly served. We find that Jair.es Ellis, Sidney August
Warner, and Albert Applewhite are members of the klan — ACCA o,r,were. .
members until recently, and the.refore should be enjoined. The^;request
for dismissal of the action as to these named defendants and their
request for attorneys fees are denied.
59-222 O - 67 - pt. 3 - 13
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
THURSDAY, JANUARY 6, 1966
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D.G.
public hearings
The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:31 a.m. in the
Caucus Eoom, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon.
Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Lou-
isiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of
Georgia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr.,
of Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present : Representatives Willis, Pool, Welt-
ner, and Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order. The Chair
wants to acknowledge the presence in the hearing room of the Hon.
Belgrano Rosson; Mr. Belgrano Rosson is president of the Committee
on Constitutional Affairs of the Chamber of Deputies of Argentina.
With him in the audience is his charming wife, Mrs. Belgrano
Rosson, and Mr. Caulus F. Soto, an interpreter for the Department
of State.
We acknowledge your presence and appreciate your attendance.
We hope you can follow some of the proceedings, anyway. I under-
stand you have an interpreter with you.
Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Russell E. Magee.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
Do you solmenly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing^ but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Magee. I do.
TESTIMONY OF RUSSELL E. MAGEE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, will you state your full name for the record 'I
Mr. Magee. Russell E. Magee.
2521
2522 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE "U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Mao;ee, I suegjest that you pull the microphone a
little closer. It is difRciilt to hear you.
Mr. Magee. Russell E. Magee.
Mr. Appell. "When and where were you lx)rn ?
Mr. Magee. "Washington Parish, April 19, 1924.
The Chairman. What town ?
Mr. Magee. Franklinton. It is in a rural area.
The Chairman. I know the town and the surrounding area.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Magee. I am.
Mr. Appell. Would counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, are you appearing here this morning in ac-
cordance with a subpena served upon you ?
Mr. Magee. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Would you set forth for the record your educational
background ?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
grounds that it might incriminate me; on the further grounds that it
would violate my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments
of the Constitution of the ITnited States of America.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, Mr. Magee, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you are the recipient of a master's degree
from the University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Mr. Magee. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Will you set forth for the record your employment
background ?
Mr. Magee, Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you are formerly the vice principal and
basketball coach of Thomas, Louisiana, School and that you now
hold a supervisory position with tlie local school board.
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Pool. Counsel, is there any information there on what the Fed-
eral participation is there at this school ?
Mr. Appell. That is information wliich we do not possess in full.
The Chairman. Mr. Magee, you have a master's degree, and there-
fore you are fully capable of understanding the purposes, objectives,
and programs of any organization to which you might belong.
In light of that I shall ask you for enlightenment later on, after
certain identifications will be made.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, I hand you copy of a constitution of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klau of Louisiana. I ask you if, as
a member of that organization, you operated under those constitu-
tional laws?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 2.")
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2523
Mr. Appell. Mr. Majfjee, this constitution provides that in eacli
Klavern there shall be appointed a klokan, and under the klokan
there shall be appointed in secret a wrecking; cre-sv. What knowledge
do you possess of the existence and the purpose of a wrecking: creAV ?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answ^er questions, I now present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Magee :
Member of the Franklinton, Louisiana, unit of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan in 1963, when the organization was known as the
Louisiana Rifle Association and was under the leadership of J. D.
Swenson and Royal V. Young.
In April of 1964 he arranged bond for two Klansmen who were ar-
rested for assaulting an officer and resisting arrest in Franklinton,
Louisiana.
In June and July, 1964 he received the sum of $777.01 by checks
from the Christian Constitutional Crusaders, the front or cover name
of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan as headed by Murry H.
Martin.
These funds were advanced to Magee as an organizer for the Sixth
Congressional District as well as to operate the Sixth District Klan
organization.
(Checks previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 9." See
p. 2373.)
In September of 1964 he was coordinator of all Klan activities for
the Sixth Congressional District of the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan.
He was a leader of the faction w^hich broke from the Martin lead-
ership of the Original Knights in or around December of 1964. This
faction continued to operate in Washington Parish, Louisiana, inde-
pendent of other Klan groups and issued leaflets under the name of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana.
In March of 1965, Magee and other Klansmen attended a meeting at
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, called for the purpose of attempting to re-
unite factions under the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
America, Inc., a newly incorporated independent Klan organization.
When the Bogalusa Klan group created as its front, or cover, the
Anti-Communist Christian Association, Magee held membership in
that organization.
This information, Mr. Chairman, which we believe the witness can
confirm, also leads us to believe that he possesses additional informa-
tion which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would
materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Magee, you have heard the statement, of Mr.
Appell. You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of tliat
statement, to admit or deny the truth of any allegation, and to explain
or modify any part of that statement.
In addition you may, if you desire, offer any other matter which the
committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you wish to take advantage of the offer I have just made?
2524 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Magee. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
The Chairman. Well then, Mr. Magee, I must inform you that m
the absence of your rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the atten-
tion of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of
its investigation. Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say ?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse' to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
The Chairman. As I indicated a moment ago, you possess a master's
degree and you are connected with the school system in your area. I
would like very much to take advantage of your education and ability
to express yourself and have you give us the purposes, objectives, and
the programs of the Ku Klux Klan organization to which you belong.
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
The Chairman. Did you at any time make speeches or participate
in the issuance of pamphlets, literature, and documents purporting to
define the objectives and programs of the Ku Klux Klan organization
to which you belong ?
Mr. Magee. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
The Chairman. Did you as part of your participation in the school
system of your area discuss these objectives, purposes, and programs
of the Klan organization to which you belong ?
Mr. Magee. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, visiting the schools of your parish as a
member of the school board, I assume that you discuss with the students
the Constitution of the United States. The bylaws of the Anti-Com-
munist Christian Association supports the Constitution of the United
States as originally written. Is this the constitution that you discuss
with your students ?
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee, were you a defendant in the three- judge
court seated in Louisiana which returned an order and finding of facts
against yourself and other named defendants ? ^
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the groimds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Appell. This statement appears in the court records and it is
my understanding that the defendants, through counsel, admitted to
your knowledge-— during the period from January 28, 1965, to the
present time the individual defendants —
including Saxon Farmer, Russell Magee, Dewey Smith, Handle C. Pounds, Billy
Alford, Charles McClendon. .Tames l'>urke, and other members of the defendant
Klan, have gone to locations where they anticipated that Negroes would attempt
to exercise their rights and where they anticipated that persons would publicly
demonstrate in favor of equal rights for Negroes, in order that the defendants
might identify, harass, threaten and intiniidate such Negroes and other per-
sons. •'■ * *
1 See Ralph Blumberg Exhibit No. 2, pp. 2475-2519.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2525
Is that statement that I read to you factual, as it applies to yourself ?
Mr. ]VL\GEE. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ;isk
of tliis witness.
Mr. Weltner. Mr, Chairman, I would like to ask the witness
whether an employee of the public schools of the State of Ix)uisiana
takes an oath of office, or whether he must subscribe to any stated
principle prior to embarking on employment with the public school
system of the State of I^uisiana.
Mr. Magee. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Weltner. No further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Before calling the next witness, I Avould like to ask that
the checks made payable to Mr. Magee be entered as exhibits to his
testimony at the conclusion of his testimony.
The Chairman. The checks will be admitted at the point where they
were referred to.
Mr. Appell. Mr. James M. Ellis, Jr.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Ellis. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES M. ELLIS, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record.
Mr. Ellis. James M. Ellis, Jr.
Mr. Appell. Are you popularly known in Bogalusa by the nickname
of "Buster"?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
grounds that it might incriminate me and, further, that it might
violate my rights guaranteed me under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th
amendments to the Constitution of the United States.
The Chairman. Do you honestly feel — and that is the basis upon
which you have the right to invoke the constitutional privilege you
have outlined — that to answer that question would tend to incriminate
you or subject you to criminal prosecution under those very consti-
tutional provisions that you cited ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question pro-
pounded to me on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom, Mr. Ellis ?
Mr. Ellis. July 5, 1932, Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr, Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Ellis. 520 Superior Avenue, Bogalusa.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee the benefit of your
educational background ?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the question
propounded to me on the grounds previously stated.
2526 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. "Would you give the committee the benefit of your em-
ployment background ?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you are the owner of the Ellis Auto Repairs, 814 Sabine
Street, Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, did you receive an honorable discharge from
the United States Air Force in April of 1953 ?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, I hand you a constitution of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and ask you if, as a
former exalted cyclops of a Klavern in Bogalusa, you operated in
accordance with this constitution ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the
question on the grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 2.")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, are you appearing before the committee in
accordance to a subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at
Wesley Car Sales at Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Ellis. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, under the conditions of the subpena, and
the attachment which was made a part of the subpena, you were com-
manded to bring with you and to produce before the committee :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and affiliated organizations, namely, Anti-
Communist Christian Association in your possession, custody or control, or main-
tained by you or available to you as Exalted Cyclops of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana or Anti-Communist Christian Association.
I ask you to produce those documents called for in your subpena.
Mr, Ellis, Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to produce those
documents on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce the documents called for.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I explained
to previous witnesses the fact this subpena was served on you, and
ordered you to produce documents just read by Mr. Appell in the
representative capacity indicated?
Mr, Ellis. Yes.
The Chairman. For the reasons stated previously, which you say
you are aware of, I therefore order and direct you to produce those
documents.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to produce those
documents on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, paragraph 2 of the subpena called upon you
to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
present or past member or officer of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2527
the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization au-
thorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organi-
zation, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 2.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to produce the
documents on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I ask that the witness be directed to produce the docu-
ments and other records called for in paragraph 2.
The Chairman. For the reasons previously stated, I order and direct
you to produce those documents.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to produce those
documents on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainnan, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I now present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Ellis. ^
Member and exalted cyclops of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan under the leadership of Murry H. Martin. In July 1964, Ellis
was the second endorser on a check drawn against the Christian Consti-
tutional Crusaders, the cover name of the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan. The payee of the check was Russell Magee, and the
check was advanced for the purpose of financing Sixth Congressional
District Klan activities. (See Murry Martin Exhibit No. 9, p. 237o.)
From Klansman HoAvard M. Lee, a licensed gun dealer, Ellis re-
ceived 6.5 Italian surplus rifles by the case and either he, or his em-
ployee at that time, Klansman Eddie Dubison, sold same out of Ellis's
place of business, Ellis Auto Repair. Following questioning by agents
of the Alcohol Tax Unit, Ellis for his own security left the Klan.
With the creation of the Klan front or cover, the Anti-Communist
Christian Association, he joined the association.
On February 15, 1964, Ellis and other Klansmen followed Negroes
into the Negro section of Bogalusa after having threatened tliem be-
cause they sought service at a restaurant in Bogalusa.
This information, Mr. Chairman, which we believe the witness can
confirm, also leads us to believe that he possesses additional informa-
tion which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would
materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Ellis, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's chief investigator, Mr. Appell. I now give you the oppor-
tunity to reply to any portion of that statement, to admit or deny
the truth of any allegation, and to explain or modify any part of that
statement.
Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity ?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline to and refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I must say to you, Mr. Ellis, in the absence of your
rebuttal, or any other facts that may come to the attention of tliis com-
mittee, this committee will rely on the accuracy of its investigation as
related by Mr. Appell. Bearing this in mind, do you have anything
else to say ?
Mr. Ellis. I respectfully decline to and refuse to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
2528 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Are you aware of the fact, which is established in
the injunction proceedings filed in Louisiana, that some of the records
of the Klan were destroyed ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
The Chairmax. Did you as a fact, as related by Mr. Appell, retire
from the Klan out of self-protection in order not to be involved in
the distribution of guns, pursuant to a license issued to Howard M.
Lee, who was charged and convicted of violating Federal law in that
respect ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the
question on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to read from a report of
Wallace J.
The Chairman. Pardon me.
I say to you as a fact that you were one of the defendants in that
injunction proceeding, so you would have knowledge, I assume, of the
destruction of the records.
Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to read from a report of
Wallace J. Moll, Jr., an agent of the Alcohol Tax Unit stationed in
New Orleans, Louisiana.
The Chairman. And that unit has jurisdiction over gun licenses,
strange enough. I do not know how strange it is, but it has jurisdic-
tion over licensing people distributing certain types of guns; is that
correct ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. [Reading :]
James M. Ellis, .Jr., .520 Superior Avenue, Bogalnsa, Louisiana, was interviewed
at his place of business on January 14. ItXv) and advised that he had known
Howard I^^e about one year and that Lee had approached him on the pos-
sibility of purchasing high-powered rifles at a cheap price provided they could
secure volume sales.
He advised that he had delivered about 4 cases of the rifles for Lee, securing
the money for him and receiving the rifles in shipment. He stated that he
eventually quit this as it as interfering with his business operation.
I ask you, Mr. Ellis, if the paragraph that I have quoted from Agent
Moll's report is factual ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. To whom did you distribute the rifles contained in
the four cases which you acknowledged to the A.T.U. that you had
delivered for Howard M. Lee?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that by "delivering" you meant that yoii sold these rifles out
of your place of business, either you or Eddie Dubison, your employee.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2529
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, when I interviewed Mr. Howard M. Lee in
the Federal jienitentiary at Texarkana, Texas, Mr. Lee told me how,
when he was confronted with the facts, that many of the persons whom
his records disclosed had received weapons, that he had gone and
called upon these people or made investigation for the purpose of
determining the accuracy of the Government's charges. He deter-
mined to his own satisfaction that his records were in fact false.
I ask you whether or not in the distribution of these rifles that you
supplied Howard Lee for his records false information as to the
identity of people who purchased same from your garage or auto
repair shop ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, the majority of the rifles sold out of the Ellis Auto Repair
Shop were sold to people known to you and to Eddie Dubison to be
Klansmen.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ellis, as the exalted cyclops of a unit, you had the
responsibility under the constitution of seeing to it that the klokan
of your Klavern appointed in secret a wrecking crew.
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I
Mr. Appell. I haven't asked the question yet.
Was a wrecking crew appointed within your Klavern ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As an exalted cyclops, will you explain to the commit-
tee the purpose of a wrecking crew ?
Mr. Ellis. Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Randle C. Pounds.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Pounds. I do.
TESTIMONY OF EANDLE C. POUNDS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, will you state your full name for the
record, please ?
Mr. Pounds. Randle Cozell Pounds.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Pounds. Picayune, Mississippi, September, 30th day of Septem-
ber, 1925.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside, Mr. Pounds ?
Mr, Pounds. Bogalusa, Louisiana, Route 58-C.
2530 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, are you appearing here this morning in
accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 30, 1965, at the
Chevrolet Motors in Bogahisa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Pounds. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, the subpena served upon you contained
an attachment which was made part of the subpena and calls for you to
produce certain documents.
Paragraph 1 reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and aflSliated organizations, namely, Anti-
Communist Christian Association, in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as member or officer of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I ask you to produce the documents.
Mr. Pounds. I respectfully refuse to produce the records on the
grounds they might incriminate me, and on the further grounds that
it might violate my rights guaranteed me under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and
14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Pounds. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please give his name for the record?
Mr. Ingilvm. Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
.sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past member and/or officer of the United Klans of America, Inc..
Knights of the Ku Klux EHan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said orga-
nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce the documents called for in this paragraph 2.
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to produce the documents on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Pounds, were you in the hearing room when
I explained to previous witnesses the fact that this subpena was served
upon you and requires you to produce documents in the capacity in-
dicated in the subpena ?
Mr. Pounds. Yes.
The Chairman. I therefore now order and direct you to produce
those documents.
Mr. Ingram, I assume what we have covered before has been true
all along, namely, you were supplied witli a copy of my opening state-
ment and you are familiar with its contents?
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer tlie question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, would you give the committee your edu-
cational background?
Mr. Pounds. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, is your i)rincipal source of income that
from the business of a private contract painter?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2531
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer on the constitntional grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you served in the United States Navy
from December 1950 to October 1954, in the TTnited States Naval Re-
serve from September 1958 to October 1960, that you served in the
regular United States Navy from October 19()0 to December 1962,
when you were transferred to the temporaiy disability retired list by
reason of a physical disability.
I put that to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny it.
Mr. Pounds. I respectfully refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, do you presently receive compensation
from the United States Government as a result of being placed on a
temporary disability retired list?
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you have held membership in the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness's claimed privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I now present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Pounds.
In 1964, an active member of the Original Kniffhts of the Ku Klux
KlaiL
In 1965, believed to be a member of the wrecking crew.
On April 6, 1965, the Klan rented a vacant house near the Bogalusa
Labor Temple to observe the activities of civil rights groups and to
plan acts of violence against its members. Pounds was one of the many
Klansmen in the watching and planning of violence.
April 7, 1965, Randall C. Pounds and Klansman [Glenn] Breland
accosted CORE worker William Yates. Pounds struck Yates* car
with a heavy object at a time when Yates was leaving the house of
Robert Hicks, vice president of the Bogalusa Voter's League.
April 9, 1965, arrested for the assault upon Negroes in a march to
the Bogalusa City Hall, including James Farmer, whom he attacked
with a blackjack.
April 8, 1965, Pounds, together with other Klansmen, smashed the
rear window of an automobile belonging to a CORE worker while
it was parked across the street from the house of Robert Hicks.
May 31, 1965, Klansmen Billy Alford and Pounds threatened,
harassed, and attempted to intimidate Negro pickets in the downtown
area of Bogalusa.
Pounds is a member of the Klan front, or cover organization, the
Anti-Communist Christian Association.
This information, Mr. Chairman, which we believe the witnesses can
confirm also, leads us to believe that he possesses additional informa-
2532 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
tion which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would
materially aid the Confess in enacting remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr, Pounds, you have heard the sworn statement
of Mr. Appell, the chief investigator of this committee.
I now give you the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment, admit or deny the truth of any of it, and to explain, or modify,
any part of the statement.
In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the
committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity ?
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer the question on the constitutional
gromids previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Pounds, I must inform you that
in the absence of your rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the
attention of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy
of its investigation.
Bearing this in mind, do you have anything to say ?
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pounds, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, you were one of the defendants before the
three-]* udge court sitting in Louisiana, New Orleans, Louisiana ?
Mr. Pounds. I refuse to answer on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Eric Peterson.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Peterson. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ERIC PETERSON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, will you state your full name for the
record, please?
Mr. Peterson. My name is Captain Eric Peterson.
Mr. Appell. Would you explain the title of "captain" that you give
to yourself?
Mr, Peterson, Sir, I respectfully decline and refuse to answer the
question propounded to me on the grounds it will discriminate me, on
the further grounds it will violate my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th,
and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of
America,
Mr, Appell. Mr, Peterson, you are represented by counsel?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2533
Mr. Peterson. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Ingram. Michael S. Ingram, attorney at law, Baton Rouge,
Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Peterson was asked to set fortli his
full name for the record. He identified himself on the record as
•'Captain Eric Peterson." He was then asked to explain to the com-
mittee the designation which he gave to himself as captain and he
refused to do so, invoking constitutional grounds. I request that the
witness be directed to answer the question. Where does he get the title
of captain?
The Chairman. I order and direct you to answ^er that question.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, when and w^here were you born?
Mr. Peterson. I was bom in a rural area near Sunny Hill, Lou-
isiana, on July 6, 1924.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Peterson. I reside in a rural area near Sun, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Would you give us a description of where you live?
Mr. Peterson. Would you repeat the question, please?
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a description of the area
in which you live?
Mr. Peterson. I repeat my answer. I reside in a rural area about
11/^ miles from Sun, Louisiana.
The Chairman. Mr. Ingram, I believe our colloquy is broad enough
with reference to my opening statement to include this witness and
others whom you might represent. So we may have it in the record
now ; is that correct ?
Mr. Ingram. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, you are appearing before the committee
this morning in accordance with a subpena which was served upon you
by a United States Marshal on November 4, 1965, at your residence in
Sun, Louisiana.
Mr. Peterson. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, under the conditions of the subpena
served upon you and an attachment thereto which was made a part of
the subpena, you were ordered to produce the following items listed in
paragraph 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and affiliated organizations, namely, the
Anti-Communist Christian Association, in your possession, custody or control,
or maintained by you or available to you as member and/or officer of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and the Anti-Communist Christian
Association.
I ask you to produce those records, sir.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to produce the documents on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
2534 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce tlie documents called for in paragraph 1 of the attachment
to his subpena.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I commented
on this subpena served upon you, which orders you to produce docu-
ments in the capacity indicated in the subpena ?
Mr. Peterson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I therefore order and direct you to produce those
documents.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully refuse to produce the documents on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capac-
ity as present or past member or oflBcer of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knishts of the Ku Klux Klan, and the Anti-Communist Christian Association
which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require
to be maintained by you or any other officer of said organization, the same being
in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those docimients.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. And for the reasons I previously stated, I order
and direct you to produce those documents.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
gromids previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 3, Mr. Peterson, calls upon you
Mr. Ingram. May I speak to you a minute ?
(Counsel conferring.)
Mr. Appell. Mr, Peterson, paragraph 3 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce :
Copies of T\S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service. Form 1040.
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Returns," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department,
Internal Ilevenue Service.
I ask you to produce those documents called for in paragraph 3.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully refuse to produce the documents on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, will you advise the committee of your
educational background ?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you had 1 year of college at Southwestern Louisiana
State College.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2535
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you are the owner of the Pearl River Towing Company,
Sun, Louisiana.
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, did you ever hold membership in the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of the Realm of Louisiana?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I hand you a copy of the constitution of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Louisiana, and I ask you if,
as an exalted cyclops of that unit, of that organization, you conducted
a Klavern under the rules and regulations prescribed therein?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Docmnent previously marked "MuiTy Martin Exhibit No. 2.")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I now present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Peterson :
October 1963, a member of the Bush, Louisiana, Unit, Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which was then under the leadership
of J. D. Swenson and Royal V. Young.
February 1964, attended a meeting at Alexandria, Louisiana, at
which meeting Royal V. Young made plea with Klan leaders to hold
organization together under his leadership.
July 1964, exalted cyclops of Bush Unit, Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan, then under the leadership of Murry H. Martin. Klav-
ern funds were maintained in his personal bank account.
While the exalted cyclops he purchased 700 rounds of ammunition
and 25 rifles from Howard M. Lee, which rifles were sold or dis-
tributed by Peterson to Klansmen in the Covington, Louisiana, area.
Mr. Peterson paid Howard Lee $125 for the 25 rifles.
In September 1964, Peterson was a member of the Avrecking crew
in the Saint Tammany Parish. The "wrecking crew,'' in Klan termi-
nology, refers to a group of Klansmen who are prone to violence or
who have been selected to carry out violence.
This information, Mr. Chairman, which we believe the witness can
confirm, also leads us to believe that he possesses additional informa-
tion which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would
materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation.
(At this point Mr. Buchanan left the hearing room.)
The Chairman. Mr. Peterson, you have heard the sworn statement
of Mr. Appell, our chief investigator. You now have the opportunity
to reply to any part or portion of that statement, to admit or deny
the truth of any allegation, and to explain or modify any part of that
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 14
2536 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
statement. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter
the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to
avail yourself of that opportunity?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairiman. While Mr. Appell was outlining his sworn state-
ment, I noticed you made notes of something when he described a
meeting in Alexandria, when he described that you put Kllan funds
in your personal account, when he referred to rifles coming from
Howard Lee, and when he referred to you as a member of the wrecking
crew.
I have no objection at all, of course, and have none to your making
notes. I simply wanted to give you the opportunity to say whether
you were making those notes because you were doubtful of these
things or because perhaps you wanted to keep a memorandum of
what you had been questioned about and what had been disclosed.
Do you care to comment?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have entered into the
record four documents which I shall now exhibit to Mr. Peterson.
One is a notice of the Ouachita National Bank, Monroe, Louisiana,
to the Christian Constitutional Crusaders, the cover name of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan when under the leadership
of Murry H. Martin, which reflects that a check drawn against the
account of Eric Peterson in the amount of $47 was returned because
of a missing endorsement.
Document Nos. 2, 3, and 4 are excerpts from the records of Howard
M. Lee relating to his sales of gims and ammunition. The first paper
contains the writing "700 rounds for Sun, La., Eric Peterson." The
second document, in addition to other entries, contains the entry, "Eric
Peterson, 25 rifles, pd. $125." The third document contains the serial
numl>ers of the 25 rifles and is dated July 28, 1964.
After you have examined those documents, Mr. Peterson, I give you
an opportunity to comment on either or all.
The Chairman. Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to do so on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I order that these documents be inserted in the
record at this point and instruct the reporter to insert in the printed
record all documents as they are commented on and exhibited.
(Documents marked "Eric Peterson Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2-A, 2-B,
and 2-C, respectively, follow :)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2537
Eric Peterson Exhibit No. 1
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2538 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2539
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, are there any other reasons, other than
the constitutional reasons which you have set forth, for your refusal
to answer or your refusal to produce clocimients called for by the
subpena ?
Mr. Peterson. Would you repeat that question ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Are there any other reasons, other than the
constitutional reasons which you have set forth, why you did not
answer questions propounded to you or produce documents called for
by your subpena ?
Mr. Petersox. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Prior to November 6, 1965 — and your subpena was
served upon you on November 4 — were you telling residents of Sun,
Louisiana, that you did not intend to cooperate with the committee and
that you intended to be completely nonresponsive ?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Is that statement a matter of fact. Counsel ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Wliere did that statement appear ?
Mr. Appell. In the area of Sun, Louisiana, where Mr. Peterson
resides.
Mr. Peterson, it is the committee's infomiation that from the Pearl
River Towing Company, which you own, you have a gross income,
prior to deductions, of in excess of $300,000. l^-liat percentage of your
income is derived from the United States Government?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, do you not live on Government
property and tie up your barges on Government property, for wjiich
you pay compensation of only $35 per month ?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to read into the record at
this point a letter from the Office of the Chief of Engineers, which
reads as follows :
The District Engineer, U.S. Army Engineer District, at Mobile. Alabama, in-
forms me that a lease was entered into between the Government and Mr. Peter-
.son on 1 January 1962 for the use of approximately two acres of land and a
concrete block dwelling at Ivock No. 3, Pearl River Project, Jjonisiana. The
term of the lease was for five years and ends 31 December 19G6. This grant was
the result of a bid submitted by Mr. Peter.son in response to an invitation to
bid for leasing this property. The compensation is .$3.5.00 per month. Mr. Peter-
son in the operation of his towing bu.siness is one of the principal users of the
Pearl River Project.
Is the information supplied to the committee by the Corps of Engi-
neers factual ?
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Eric Peterson Exhibit No. 3" follows :)
2540 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Eric Peterson Exhibit No. 3
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 2031S
IN REPLY REFER TO
ENGRE-MI 27 December I965
Mr. Donald T. Appell
Chief Investigator
Conmittee on Un-American Activities
House of Representatives
Washln^on^ D.C.
Dear Mr. Appell:
This is in further reply to yo\ir recent letter concerning the con-
tracttjal relationship between the Corps of Engineers and Mr. Eric
Peterson, operator of the Pearl River Towing Company, Sun, Louisiana.
Utie District Engineer, U.S. Army Engineer District, at Mobile,
Alabama, informs me that a lease was entered into between the Govern-
ment and Mr. Peterson on 1 Jantiary I962 for the use of approxLaately
two acres of land and a concrete block dwelling at Lock No. 3> Pearl
River Project, Lovilsiana. The term of the lease was for five years
and ends 3I December I966. This grant was the result of a bid sub-
mitted by Mr. Peterson in response to an invitation for bids for
leasing this property. The canpensation is $35 '00 per month. Mr.
Peterson, in the operation of his towing business, is one of the
principal, users of the Pearl River Project.
I trust the foregoing information is svifficient for your purposes.
Sincerely yours.
WOODROW BERGE
Acting Director of Real Estate
Mr. Appell. Mr. Peterson, will you advise the committee as to the
Klansmen to whom you distributed or sold the 25 rifles which you
obtained from Howard M. Lee, according to his record ?
The Chairman. He did not get the question.
Mr. Appell. Would you identify to the committee the Klansmen
to whom you either sold or distributed the 25 rifles which you received,
according to the records of Howard M. Lee ?
Mr. Peterson. I decline to do so on the constitutional grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. To your certain knowledge, were any of these rifles
used as a part of any wrecking crew activity of the Klan unit in Bush,
Louisiana ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2541
Mr. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on tlie
constitutional grounds perviously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the stall' has no further questions to ask
of Mr. Peterson.
Mr. Weltner. I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Peterson, I note at page 11 of the court opinion (Ralph Blum-
berg Exhibit No. 2) there is set forth the boycott rules of the Anti-
Communist Christian Association. A portion of those rules reads as
follows :
"Any member who shall after a hearing have been found guilty of personally
patronizing a subject listed on the boycott list shall be wrecked by the wrecking
creiv who shall be appointed by the Committee. [Emphasis added.] . . .
Second offense — If a member is found guilty of personally violating the boycott
list he shall be wrecked and banished from the Klan."
I would like to know what is meant by the term "wrecked." What
happens to a Klansman when he is "wrecked" by the "wrecking crew" ?
M. Peterson. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, may I have anotlun- moment.
I would like to inquire of Mr. Appell concerning the letter he pre-
sented from the Department of the Army. Ts the Pearl River Project
one constructed by the United States Corps of Engineers?
Mr. Appell. It is, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Is that what is known generally as a rivers and
harbors project ?
Mr. Appell. It is, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Is that project financed by any Federal funds?
Mr. Appell. It is my understanding that the river is maintained by
the Corps of Engineers and all dredging, widening, and things of
that nature are financed by Federal funds.
Mr. Weltner. As a matter of fact, that is financed 100 percent by
Federal funds ; is it not ?
Mr. Appell. That is my understanding, sir.
Mr. Weltner. I understand the company of this witness, Mr. Peter-
son, is engaged in using the river, the harbor, docks, and such other
facilities there in the course of Mr. Peterson's business.
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Weltner. I do not have a question but a sort of query as to
whether this is the kind of outside agitation and Federal interference
that seems to serve to make one a member of the Ku Klux Klan.
I have no further comment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Pool. I have no questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The Chairman. It is now noon. The committee will stand in recess
until 2 o'clock.
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and
Weltner. )
(Whereupon, at 11 :55 a.m., Thursday, January 6, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— THURSDAY, JANUARY 6, 1%6
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :10 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
2542 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Buchanan.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
I have a brief announcement to make.
The subcommittee which is conductin<r these hearinpfs met at the
conclusion of this morning's session. At that meeting the four mem-
bers jDresent voted unanimously to recommend to the full committee
that certain persons subpenaed to testify in the earlier phase of these
hearings be cited for contempt of Congress.
The following seven officials of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, were the subjects of the subcommittee
action :
Robert M. Shelton, Imperial Wizard of the United Klans of Amer-
ica, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
James R. Jones, Grand Dragon, Realm of North Carolina.
Robert E. Scoggin, Grand Dragon of the Realm of South Carolina.
Calvin F. Craig, Grand Dragon of Georgia.
Marshall R. Kornegay, Grand Dragon of Virginia.
George F. Dorsett, Imperial Kludd, who is also a paid organizer and
a province titan of the Realm of North Carolina.
Robert Hudgins, Imperial Kladd and also the exalted cyclops of
the North Carolina Klavern using the name of the Capital City Res-
toration Association.
That concludes my announcement, but in that connection I would
like to say this: On the basis of the committee's study and analysis of
the hearing record as it pertains to these men, it is my belief that the
full committee will act favorably and promptly on the recommenda-
tion of the subcommittee.
I also announce that the subcommittee decided, also, to cancel the
outstanding subpenas on Mr. Shelton and Mr. Craig. It is my im-
pression that those are the two who have outstanding subpenas. We
voted to cancel the subpenas in light of the recommendation to be made
by the subcommittee that action be taken by the full committee to rec-
ommend contempt citation of Congress.
I would like, also, to make this statement : This morning I was
handed two documents which I have before me and which I can prob-
ably describe by use of the term "flyers." These documents state that
they are put out by the United Klans of America, Inc. One of them
is a bulletin from the Ku Klux Klan, and it seeks to exhort, the read-
er to fight back against the colored people, whom it calls "niggers."
The other document is an invitation to join the United Klans of
America, Inc., saying that any native-born, loyal United States citi-
zen, 21 years old, white, gentile, temperate habits, Christian faith,
and believing in white supremacy in America can join the Klan.
There is actually a membership blank, with places to be filled in.
The point I make it this : These flyers, I am told, have been and are
being inserted in mail boxes in and around Baton Rouge.
I call attention to the fact that the insertion of these documents in
United States mail boxes without payment of postage in regular mail-
ing constitutes a violation of section 1725 of title 18 of the United
States Code. We plan to report, the incident to the postal authorities.
In fact, we have already talked to the legal department about taking
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2543
whatever action and measures which might be appropriate in the cir-
cumstances.
Mr. Appell, call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Pete Holclen.
The Chairiman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God ?
Mr. HoLDEN. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES W. (PETE) HOLDEN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. HoLDEisr. James W. Hoi den.
Mr. Appell, Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Holden ?
Mr. Holden. Yes, I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please idonlify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. My name is Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Louisi-
ana.
Mr. Appell. "Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Holden ?
Mr. Holden. I was born in Bogalusa, Louisiana, May 18, 1926.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. Holden. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that it might incriminate me and on the furtlier grounds that
it would violate my rights under the Constitution — 1, 5, 4, and 14th
amendments of the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you operate a Texaco station in Covington, Louisiana.
Mr. Holden. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden, do you now or have you ever held office
in a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Holden. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
same constitutional grounds ):)reviously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you held the position of exalted cyclops
of a unit of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Covington,
Louisiana.
Mr. Holden. I refuse to answer on the ground previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden, were you acquainted with Howard M.
Lee, the gun dealer in Bogalusa. Louisiana?
Mr. Holden. I refuse to answer on the ground previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden, the committee's investigation established
that Eric Peterson, of Sun, Louisiana, obtained 25 rifles from Howard
M. Lee and either sold or distributed them to Klansmen in the Cov-
ington, Louisiana, area. Do you possess knowledge of this?
Mr. Holden. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appeij.. Mr. Holden, the committee's investigation established
that Mr. Lee's records failed to reflect the sale of some 154 rifles. The
2544 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
committee's investigation disclosed that many of these rifles were
sold and not reflected in Mr. Lee's records and were purchased by
members of the Covington, Louisiana, Klavern.
As the exalted cyclops of that Klavern, can you tell us whether or
not any of your members obtained these rifles from Howard M. Lee ?
Mr. HoLDEN. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden, I hand you a copy of the "Konstitution
of the Original Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Louisiana," and ask you if
you ever operated under that constitution.
Mr. HoLDEN. I respectfully refuse to answer on (he grounds pre-
viously stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 2.")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holden, under the constitution of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan tliere was provision made within
Klaverns, within provinces, and within the realm for divisions known
as the Klan Bureau of Investigation. Who headed the Klan Bureau
of Investigation for your Klavern?
Mr. HoLDEN. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Provision was made for the appointment by the klokan
of the Klavern of six men to be appointed in secret, being known by
the title of the "wrecking crew." Who was the klokan of your
Klavern ?
Mr. Holden. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
Mr. Pool. I have no questions.
Mr. Weltner. I have no questions.
Mr. Buchanan. I have no questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Willie Houston Burke.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
Do you solemnly swear that tlie testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Burke. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIE HOUSTON BURKE, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell, Would you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Burke?
Mr. Burke. Willie Houston Burke.
Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born ?
Mr. Burke. February 2, 1917, in the suburbs of Bogalusa, Loui-
siana.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Burke. Yes, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2545
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. My name is Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Loui-
siana.
Mr. Appell, "\^^lere do you reside, Mr. Burke ?
Mr. Burke. 903 Pine Ridge Road, I^ogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee today, Mr.
Burke, in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 26,
1965, at 903 Pine Ridge Drive, Bogalusa, Louisiana '{
Mr. Burke. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, the subpena served yuii contained an at-
tachment which called upon you to produce books and records set
forth on the attachment which was made part of the subpena. I'ara-
graph 2 calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your ik)s-
session custody or control, or maintained by or available to yon. in your capacity
as a present or past Exalted Cyclops and/or member of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization au-
thorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said orga-
nization the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 2.
Mr. Burke. Sir, I refuse to produce the records mentioned in the
question on the grounds that it might incriminate me and on the
further grounds that it would violate my rights under the 1st, 4th,
5th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States
of America.
(At this point Mr. Buchanan left the hearing room. )
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce those documents.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I explained
the fact that this subpena was being served on others and on you in
the capacity designated in the subpena ?
Mr. Burke. Yes.
The Chairman. Accordingly, I order and direct you to produce
those documents.
Mr. Burke. Sir, I respectfully refuse to produce the records on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, were you a member of the Ku Klux Klan
in 1963 when the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was under
the direction of Royal V. Young as the Imperial Dragon ?
Mr. Burke. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
(At this point Mr. Buchanan returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I now present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Burke :
In 1963, exalted cy clops of the Bogalusa Unit of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under the leadership of J. D. Swenson
and Royal V. Young.
In 1963-64 exalted cyclops of the Bogalusa Unit of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under the leadership of Murry H.
Martin. This Klavem held its meetings at the Disabled American
Veterans Hall w^hich was operated by Klansman Arvis Warner.
2546 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Head of the committee of exalted cyclops under the Washington
Parish KLan which distributed leaflets under the title of the Orginal
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, under the leadei-ship of
Charles Christmas and Saxon Farmer.
Member of the Klan front or cover organization, the Anti-Commu-
nist Christian Association.
This information, Mr. Chairman, leads us to believe that the wit-
ness, Mr. Burke, possesses additional information which is both per-
tinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the
Congress in the enactment of remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Burke, you have heard the sworn statement of
Mr. Appell, the chief investigator of this committee.
Now I give you the opportmiity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to admit or deny the truth of any allegation, and to explain
or modify any part of that statement.
In addition you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the
committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail youreelf of that opportunity ?
Mr. Burke. Sir, I respectfuly refuse to answer on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case I must inform you that, absent your
rebuttal or other facts which may come to the attention of the com-
mittee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Bearing tliat in mind, have you anything to say ?
Mr. Burke. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
aiRrm or deny the fact, that you are an employee of the city of
Bogalusa.
Mr. Burke. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you have acted on behalf of the Klan in matters affecting
the city of Bogalusa.
Mr. Burke. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As chairman of the committee of exalted cyclops, did
you know- Albert Applewhite
The Chairman. And that committee operates statewide in Louis-
iana— or did it ?
Mr. Appell. No ; this was Washington Parish, Mr. Chairman,
The Chairman. I thought you said he was head of the committee
of exalted cyclops.
Mr. Appell. Of Washington Parish.
As chairman of the committee of exalted cyclops of Washington
Parish did you know Albert Applewhite to be exalted cyclops of Unit
No. 4?
Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know these following individuals to have
held the position of exalted cvclops at one time or another of Unit
No. 2?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2547
Dewey B. Smith, Ovied B. Duiiaway; James M. (Buster) Ellis, Jr.;
Robert Rester: and Billie Clyde Simmons?
• Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Dewey B. Smith to also have been the
exalted cyclops of Unit No. 1 ?
Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously stated.
(At this point Mr. Pool left the hearing room.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, the mayor of Bogalusa, Mayor Cutrer, testi-
fied that he was approached by a man identified as Marvin Foster,
whom he described as the liaison of tlie Klan, liaison man of the Klan,
to the City Hall, and was told to attend a meeting of the Klan at the
Disabled American Veterans Hall operated by Mr. Arvis Warner.
The mayor testified that he attended this meeting along with the
police commissioner, Arnold Spiers, and there the demands of the
Klan were made to him by 150 Klansmen robed and masked.
Did you participate in that meeting
Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer under the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell — responsible for extending the demands to Mayor
Cutrer, and wliat demands were made upon him with respect to the
impending visit to Bogalusa, as a speaker, of former Congressman
Brooks Hays ?
Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer under the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, literature distributed to the citizenry of
Bogalusa, as well as the citizenry throughout the United States, by the
Klan, advocates that it supports free speech. Enforcing the cancella-
tion of speaking enngagement of fomier Congressmen Brooks Hays,
how did the Klan carry out one of its purposes and objectives?
Mr. Burke. I refuse to ansAver under the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burke, it was at a speech at Crossroads, Mississippi,
on January 21, 1965, a 16-year old boy from Bogalusa announced that
there was a youth group of tlie Klan being organized under the direc-
tion of Saxon Farmer in Bogalusa, Louisiana, and this 16-year-old boy
asked you to join up. Do you know of the existence of such a youth
group in Bogalusa?
Mr. Burke. I refuse to answer under the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of this witness.
Mr. Buchanan. I have no questions.
Mr. Weltner. I have no questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Albert Applewhite.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Applewhite. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ALBERT lAFTMAN APPLEWHITE, ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Applewhite. Albert Laf tman Applewhite.
2548 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee this after-
noon represented by counsel ?
Mr. Applewhite. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Ingram. Michael Ingram from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom ?
Mr. Applewhite. Bogalusa, December 24, 1924.
Mr. Appell. "Wliere do you presently reside ?
Mr. Applewhite. 1813 Washington Street, Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing in accordance to a subpena served
upon you by U.S. Marshal on October 26, 1965, at 1813 Washington
Street, Bogalusa, Louisiana ?
Mr. Applewhite. Yes, sir.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Applewhite, under the conditions of the subpena
there was an attachment thereto made a part of the subpena and
you were commanded to bring with you and to produce documents
set forth in the attachment, paragraph 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of the business and affairs of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, and aflBliated organizations, namely,
the Anti-Communist Christian Association in your possession, custody or con-
trol, or maintained by you or available to you as Exalted Cyclops of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and the Anti-Communist Christian
Association.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I respectfully decline to produce these docu-
ments because to me on the grounds it might incriminate me, and on
the further ground it would violate my rights guaranteed under the
1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce the documents.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I commented
on the fact these subpenas, including the one served upon you, called
upon you to produce these documents in the representative capacity
indicated in the subpena ?
Mr. Applewhite. Yes.
The Chairman. Therefore, I order and direct you to produce the
documents for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I refuse to present these documents on the
groimds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Applewhite, under paragraph 2 of the subpena
you were asked to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past officer or member of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
or the Anti-Communist Christian Association which the "Constitution and Laws"
of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any
other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or
control.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I refuse to present these documents on the
grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2549
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce the documents.
The CHAimiAX. For the reasons I previously indicated, I order you
to produce those documents.
Mr. Applewhite. I refuse to present the documents on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Applewhite, would you give the committee your
educational background?
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Applewhite, did you see service in the United
States Navy from August 1943 to March 1946, at which time you were
honorably discharged ?
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you have a high school education and are employed by
Crown-Zellerbach Corporation, Bogalusa, Louisiana?
Mr. Applewhite. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I propose to pre-
sent to this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain
to Mr, Applewhite.
In 1964, Mr. Applewhite was a member of Bogalusa Klavern of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, then under the leadership of
Murry H. Martin.
In March of 1965, he held the position of exalted cyclops of Unit
No. 4 of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana.
The Chairman. He was exalted cyclops of Unit No. 4 ?
Mr. Appel. On February 15, 1965, Applewhite, with other known
Klansmen, gathered at Landry's Fine Foods,'^a Bogalusa restaurant,
for the purpose of threatening Negroes seeking service.
On April 6, 1965, the Bogalusa Klan rented a vacant house near the
Bogalusa Labor Temple for the purpose of observing civil rights
groups and planning violence against them. Applewhite was one
of the Klansmen watching and planning.
Applewhite was one of 18 members of the Bogalusa Auxiliary Police
force who was sworn out of the Original Knights for security reasons
in April of 1965. Applewhite is a member of the Klan cover organiza-
tion, the Anti-Communist Christian Crusaders. Applewhite is also
a leader of the Minutemen in the Bogalusa, Louisiana, area.
This information, Mr. Chairman, leads us to believe that Mr. Apple-
white possesses additional information which is both pertinent and
relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in the
en.actment of remedial legislation.
Tlie Chairman. Mr. Applewhite, you have heard the sworn state-
ment of the committee's chief investigator, Mr. Appell. I give you
the opportmiity to reply to any portion of that statement, to admit
or deny the truth of any allegation, and to explain or modify any
part of it.
In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com-
mittee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
2550 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Do you wish to avail yourself of that opportunity ?
Mr. Applewhite. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer the question
on the ofrounds that I previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, I must inform you in absence of your
rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the attention of the commit-
tee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Now, bearing that in mind, do you have anything more to say?
Mr. Applewhite, Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer the question
on the grounds that I have previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Applewhite, will you identify for the committee
the additional 17 members of the Bogalusa Auxiliary Police Depart-
ment who were members of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Applewhite. I respectfully refuse to answer the questions on
the grounds pre\nously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Applewhite, will you identify for the committee
the klokan and the members of the wrecking crew of the Klavern
which you headed .as the exalted cyclops ?
Mr. Applewhite. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on
the grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. The Klan in Bogalusa provided for the creation of a
boycott committee to be comprised of one member from each unit in
the Bogalusa area. Tliis committee was to apix>int a wrecking crew
who would wreck persons violating the boycott restrictions. Were
you a member of this wrecking crew ?
Mr. Applewhite. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on
the grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions to ask of this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Ewell Kowley.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Rowley. I do.
TESTIMONY OF EWELL WILLIAM ROWLEY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record, please ?
Mr. Rowley. Ewell William Rowley.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here this afternoon in accordance
with a subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at the Pearl
River Junior High School in Pearl River, Louisiana?
Mr. Rowley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel?
Mr. Rowley. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Rowley ?
Mr. Rowley. Marion County, Mississippi, April 25, 1921,
Mr. Appell. What city in Marion County were you born ?
Mr. Rowley. It was in a rural area known as Kokomo.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2551
Mr. Rowley. Sixth Ward Community, Louisiana.
Mr. ArPELL. Sixth Ward of what parish?
Mr. Rowley. St. Tammany.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rowley, under the condition of the subpena served
upon you and attachement that Avas made a part of the subpena, you
were called to produce:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and afliliated organizations, namely. Pearl
River Hunting and Fishing Lodge #1028 and the Anti-Communist Christian
Association in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as a member and/or officer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Louisiana and/or Anti-Communist Christian Association.
I ask you to produce those documents, sir.
Mr. RoAVLEY. Are you speaking of paragraph 1 of the subpena i
Mr. Appell. Yes, I read paragrapli 1.
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to produce the records asked
for in paragraph 1 of the subpena on grounds tliat it might incriminate
me and, further, it would viohite my rights under the 1st, -Ith, 5th, and
14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. I ask that the witness be directed to produce the docu-
ments.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I commented
on the fact that these subpenas, including the one served upon you,
called upon you to produce these documents in the representative
capacity indicated in the subpena ?
Mr. Rowley. No, sir; I was not.
The Chairman. I will expalain it to you.
This subpena, which is technically called a subpena duces tecum,
calls upon you to produce certain books, records, documents, coi-
respondence, and memoranda relating to Ku Klux Klan affairs and
organization, which documents, it is stated in tlie subpena, are in
your possession, custody, or control or maintained by you or are avail-
able to you as a member and/or an officer of the Original Kniglits of
the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana and/or Anti-Communist Christian
Association.
In other words, the subpena does not call upon you to produce
personal papers of yours, but papers, as indicated, in your possession,
custody, or control in the capacity stated. Do you understand that ^
Mr. Rowley. Yes.
The Chairman. That means that this committee takes the position
that the constitutional ground upon which you rely is not applicable,
because you have been asked to produce something not Ijelonging to
you personally, not your own papers or documents, but in that capac-
ity, and it is our position you have no right to invoke those constitu-
tional provisions.
Under these circumstances, I order and direct you to produce them.
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to produce the records on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rowley, paragraph 2 calls for the production of:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as member and/or officer of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or the
Anti-Communist Christian Association which the "Constitution and Laws" of
said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other
59-322 O — 67 — pt. 3 15
2552 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S.
officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or
control.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to produce those records on
the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. And for the reasons and the grounds I previously
stated, I again order you to produce those documents mentioned in
paragraph 2.
Mr. Rowley. I respectfully refuse to produce these records on the
grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rowley, will you set forth your educational
background ?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the constitu-
tional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, you are the principal of the Sixth "Ward Jmiior High School,
Pearl River, Louisiana.
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I propose to present
to this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Rowley.
In 1964, Mr. Rowley was a member of the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan under the leadership of Murry H. Martin, which orga-
nization was known by a cover name of the Christian Constitutional
Crusaders. He held membership and official position in the Pearl
River Unit known by the front, or cover, name of the Pearl River
Hunting and Fishing Lodge. Meetings of the Klan group were held
in the Junior High School of which Mr. Rowley was its principal.
Officers of the unit in addition to Mr. Rowley were Ed Yates, D. B.
Dean and L. J. Moran, all of Pearl River.
This information, Mr. Chairman, leads us to believe that he is in
possession of additional information which is both pertinent and
relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in the
enactment of remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Rowley, you have heard the sworn statement
of the committee's chief investigator.
Now, I give you the opportunity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to admit or deny the truth of any allegation, and to explain
or modify any part of that statement.
In addition, I give you the privilege, if you desire, to offer any other
matter the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
heretofore stated.
The Chairman. In that case, sir, I inform you that in the absence
of any rebuttal from you, or anyone else for that matter, or other facts
that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee will
rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
In view of that, do you have anything to say ?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2553
Mr. Weltner. I would like to inquire of Mr. Appell whether he has
the name of the junior high school in Pearl Ri\er.
Mr. Ari'ELL. 1 think it is the Sixth Ward Pearl River Junior High
School.
Mr. Weltner. Is that a part of the public school system of that
parish ?
Mr. Appell. It is my understanding it is.
The Chairman. In the State of Louisiana, the parish is divided
into wards, and in each ward there are elected, depending upon the
population, members of the governing authority of that parish, which
you would call a county in other States. And from each ward there
are elected, again depending upon the population, members of the
school board system. The name "ward" in this instance is a political
subdivision of the parish from which the ward officers are drawn or
elected. So I affirm the fact it is a part of the school system of each
parish.
Mr. Weltner. So it is a publicly financed and publicly owned
facility in which this Klavern known as the Pearl River Hunting and
Fishing Lodge was located '^
Mr. Appell. Those are the results of our investigation.
Mr. Weltner. Thank you.
Mr. Buchanan. I am intrigued about the use of the school
Do you feel, sir, this is a proper use of public property, to use a
school building as a place for a Klan meeting ?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer the question on
the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I would give as my opinion, coming from Loui-
siana and being familiar with the school system there and the opera-
tion of the public buildings, that if a Klan organization — or rather an
organization dedicated to peace, order, and law enforcement asked for
the building, the school authorities would make the building available.
Mr. Buchanan. May I inquire ?
You are the second schoolman we have had here today, and I think
it is fair to state heretofore, in looking into the Klan, we found a
number of people of rather limited education in positions of leader-
ship. You are a man of some education, of responsibility in the field
of education, and working with young people. I am intrjgued. there-
fore, to leani what it is that drew you toward the Ku Klux Klan oi'
makes you feel, as a school official and one with your influence on
young people, that this is the sort of an organization of which you
ought to be a part.
Would you tell us what it is about the Klan that makes you feel
it is the kind of organization you ought to support and a man in
your position of responsibility ought to support ?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. I would like to ask Mr. Rowley whether or not ap-
proval was given for the Klan to meet in his school by the ward school
board ?
Mr. Rowley. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer the question on
the grounds previously mentioned.
Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions to ask this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused, and the committee will
stand in recess for 5 minutes.
2554 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
CVVliereiipon the subcommittee recessed and reconvened at 3 :30 p.m.
witli tlie following subcommittee members present at time of recess
and when hearings resumed: Representatives Willis, Weltner, and
Buchanan.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Proceed, Mr, Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kinch Miley.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Miley. I do.
TESTIMONY OF KINCH WILSON MILEY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGEAM
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Miley.
Mr. Miley. Kinch Wilson Miley.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Miley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingr.\m. Michael S. Ingram, from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Miley, you are appearing before the committee
today in accordance with a subpena served upon you at Route 1,
Varnado, Louisiana, on October 26, 1965 ?
Mr. Miley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Is Route 1, Varnardo, Louisiana, your residence, Mr.
Miley?
Mr. Mjley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Miley, would you state for the record your educa-
tional background ?
Mr. Miley. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that it
might intend to incriminate me, and on the further groimds that it
might violate my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments
to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Miley, are you currently employed as a schoolbus
driver?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Miley, are you currently a member of a Klan
organization ?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you currently a member of the Anti-Communist
Christian Association ?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privilege
and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I propose to present to
this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Miley.
Mr. Miley, as a member of the Bogalusa Unit of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was the purchaser of ammunition and
weapons from Howard M. Lee, the Bogalusa former exalted cyclops,
who was arrested and convicted of violation of ATU regulation
governing licensed gun dealers.
Records in Lee's possession reflect entries as f ollo\vs :
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
255/
.)
Kinch Miley, 5U0 rounds of aniniunit ion.
The second entry: Two pistols, .32 caliber, Savage automatics. No.
127258, No. 160634.
Four weapons not described, with Serial Nos. RxV4844, ()K689<),
BN6o37, UI6718.
Another entry : Three weapons, not described.
Mr. Miley, what disposition did you make of the weapons and am-
munition obtained by you according to the records of gun dealer How-
ard M. Lee?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
(Excerpts from Howard M. Lee's records marked "Kincli Milev
Exhibit No. 1" follow:)
Kinch Miley Exhibit No. 1
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2556 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Did you dispose of any of the ammunition, pistols, or
other "weapons to individuals known to you to be members of the
KuKluxKlan?
Mr. MiLEY. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever serve on an official organization of the
Klan known as the wrecking crew ?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, was any of the ammunition or
weapons obtained by you from Howard Lee used for the purpose of
carrying out a wrecking crew assignment ?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of Mr. Miley.
The Chairman. Mr. Miley, I assume that Varnado is in Washing-
ton Parish.
Mr. Miley. Yes.
The Chairman. What ward of Washington Parish is that town
in?
Mr. Miley. Wliat is that question again ?
The Chairman. What ward of the parish is that town in? What
ward number of Washington Parish?
Mr. Miley. Ward 5.
The Chairman. Now I ask you a question on which you may want
to consult your counsel. I assume that you are a bus driver represent-
ing the public school system in Ward 5 of Washington Parish?
Mr. Miley. Repeat the question, please.
The Chairman. I say I assume that you are a bus driver represent-
ing the public school system of Ward 5 of Washington Parish?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you made public statements or have you
appeared at public meetings to discuss activities of the Klan of which
you are a, member ?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you ever, in the course of your daily trans-
portation of school children, which would be bringing them to school
in the morning and driving them back home after school houre, dis-
cussed with these school children Klan activities or made suggestions
to them that they consult with their parents to join up?
Mr. Miley. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Are there any questions?
The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Robert Stallings.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Stallings. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT EARL STALLINGS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Stallings. Robert Earl Stallings.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Stallings ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2557
Mr. Stallings. July 28, 1937, in Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. 'Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. STALLiNGiS. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Yes. My name is Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge,
Louisiana,.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, are you appearing here this afternoon
in accordance with a subpena served upon you at 344 Columbia Road,
Bogalusa, on the 28th day of December 1965 ?
Mr. Stallings. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, under the terms of this subpena you are
called up to produce :
All books, records, correspondence and memoranda relating to the organization
of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, the Louisiana
Rifle Association, the Christian Constitutional Crusaders, and the Anti-Commu-
nist Christian Association in your possession, custody or control, or maintained
by you or available to you as present or past officer or member of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Louisiana, the Louisiana Rifle Association, the Christian Constitutional Crusad-
ers, and the Anti-Communist Christian Association.
I ask you if you have those documents and if you will produce them,
sir.
(Documents produced.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that,
in accordance with the attachment to the subpena and the demand
made on Mr. Stallings, Mr. Stallings has produced certain records.
These records, Mr. Chairman, consist of monthly ledger cards of an
account maintained by the Parish A.C.C.A. at the First State Bank &
Trust Company, Bogalusa, Louisiana, copies of deposit slips, account
signature card,^ and eight checks drawn against the account.-
These are identical, Mr. Chairman, to the records which the com-
mittee received from the bank in accordance with a subpena duces
tecum.
(Ledger cards and deposit slips marked "Robert Stallings Exhibit
No. 1" and retained in committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, would you give the committee a brief
outline of your educational background ?
Mr. Stallings. I refuse and decline to answer the question pro-
pounded to me on the grounds that it might incriminate me and on
the further grounds that the answers would tend to violate my rights
as guaranteed under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and the 14th amendments to the
Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Appell. Would you please give to the committee your employ-
ment background, including current employment ?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you are employed by tlie bank in which this account was
maintained.
1 Previously marked "John Magee Exhibit No. 2.'
3 Previously marked "John Magee Exhibit No. 3."
2558 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TT.S.
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, according to one of the items supplied
by you, the copy of the signature card maintained by the bank (John
Magee Exhibit No. 2), the card reflects that Robert E. Stallings, who
is yourself, was the signature of the authority to the bank to honor
checks drawn against the account in the name of the Parish A.C.C.A.,
including the names of J. E. Magee, B. R. Grain, and Sidney Brock.
In light of the fact that these records which you supplied show that
you are the responsible officer of the Parish A.C.C.A. granting to the
bank the authority to honor checks, I now ask you if these documents
are all of the documents in your possession called for in the attach-
ment to the subpena under which you delivered these documents?
Mr. Stallings. The manner in which the question is phrased, I re-
spectfully refuse to answer the question on the grounds I previously
stated.
The Chairman. Would you care to explain it in your own language?
Would you care to ?
Frankly, I am going to ask the examiner to rephrase his question.
We want the facts here.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, are there any documents in your posses-
sion called for in the attacliment to the subpena which you have not
produced before this committee in accordance with the attachment?
Mr. Stallings. Would you repeat the question, please?
Mr. Appell. Are there any documents in your possession called for
to be produced in the attachment to your subpena which you have not
produced in response to the subpena ?
Mr. Stallings. No, sir; this is all the dociunents I have.
The Chairman. I do not know that you followed the question. I
do not want to confuse you in the least. Tliat would have been my
subsequent question. The question lie asked you was. Are the docu-
ments that you have produced the only documents called for? Now
let me explain. It may be — I do not know myself — that the subpena
called for other documents. Perhaps you do not liave them. If that is
the case, I would suggest that you say, subject to your counsel; "No,
the subpena called for other documents, but I don't have them and I
have never liad them," if that is the case. I tliink counsel understands
that and I am ti-ying to clarify the record. That is all I want.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
The Chairman. Do you understand what I am driving at, Mr.
Ingram ?
Mr. Ingram. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I might tell you, Mr. Ingram, in all frankness, my
next question would be, since we are talking about possession, tliat the
subpena called for documents either in his possession or under his
custody or control, or available to him or maintained by him. I just
want to make it plain ; that is all.
To be perfectly frank wnth you, I would like to see one witness who
has responded to the call of the subpena.
Mr. Stallings. The documents which I have produced are all of
the documents, books and records, correspondence, and memoranda
which I have in my possession, custody
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 2559
The Chairman-. Which I "have" or "had"?
Mr. Stallings. "VVliich I have. Shall I start, over ?
The Chairman. Yes, please.
Mr. Stallings. The documents which
The Chairman. Talk a little louder.
Mr. Stallings. The documents which I have produced are all the
documents, records, books, correspondence, and memoranda Avhich I
have or have had in my possession, custody, or control or which I have
or have had access to.
The Chairman. Mr. Stallings, as to this portion of your testi-
mony— I do not know what comes next — I tell you that I appreciate
for once somebody properly responding to a subpena issued by this
committee. I accept your tender as satisfying the subpena.
Go ahead.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, do you know John Magee, who appeared
before the three-judge court in Louisiana and identified himself as
treasurer of the Anti-Communist Christian Association, whose account
carried the name of the Parish A.C.C.A. ?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee testified that the other members of the
finance committee were Sidney Brock, Billy Crain, and Robert
Stallings. Will you explain to the committee the formation, purpose.
and organization of the finance committee of the Anti-Communist
Christian Association?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on tlie
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Magee testified that while lie was treasurer, the
funds were handled by Mr. Saxon Farmer. Was his testimonv
truthful?
Mr. Stallings. I
The Chairman. You mean he testified in the Federal court injunc-
tion proceedings?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr, Stallings, the deposit slip of March 22, 1965, of
the First State Bank, which deposit slip shows a deposit of currency
of $100 and silver of 68 cents
The Chairman. Complete your question and the answer to it, and
then defer.
Mr. Appell. — which reflects that this is a new account, contains
as the person who received the funds for the bank a signature which
I interpret as "Robert E." or "R. E. Stallings." Will you tell the
committee from what source you received this money, either as a baiik
employee or as a member of the finance committee of the Parish
A.C.C.A.?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
The Chairman. As chairman of the full House Committee on Un-
American Activities, I hereby reconstitute the subcommittee to conduct
the hearings for the balance of the afternoon as the following : Myself
2560 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
as chairman, Mr. Weltner and Mr. Buchanan as the other two mem-
bers, so for the balance of the afternoon two members shall constitute
a quorum of the subcommittee of three.
(At this point Mr. Weltner left the hearing; room.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, as a member of the A.C.C.A. did you
at any time execute an application for membership which application
had on its face "Application for Citizenship in the Invisible Em-
pire, The Original Ku Klux Klan"? I exhibit to you a copy of
an application.
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Appell. As a member of the A.C.C.A., did you ever swear to a
series of oaths, copies of which I am now handing you ?
Mr. Stallings, I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
(Documents previously marked "John Swenson Exhibit No. 1."')
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, in the month of November were you
called to jury duty at the courthouse in Franklinton, Louisiana?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you whether or not,
when examined as a prospective juror in a case, you were asked whether
or not you were the Stallings identified as a member of the A.C.C.A.
before the three- judge court in Louisiana, and that you denied that you
were, with the explanation that the name in that record was R. L.
Stallings and that you are R. E. Stallings?
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Stallings, in the canceled checks which ^'•ou sub-
mitted under the subpena duces tecum, there are checks on December
22, 1965, in the amount of $135, payable to cash, cosigned J. E. Magee,
Robert E. Stallings; August 2, 1965, to cash, in the amount of $77^40,
signed J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings; July 2, 1965, to cash, in the
amount of $106.48, cosigned J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings; July 2,
1 965, a check to cash for $93, cosigned J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings ;
a check of March 28, 1965, to the District A.C.C.A., in the amount of
$39 — strike that one because it is not cosigned by Mr. Stallings — a
check dat€d April 15, 1965, to cash, in the amount of $69, cosigned
J. E. Magee, Robert E. Stallings; a check dated May 24, 1965, to
cash, in the amount of $170.90, cosigned J. E. Magee, Robert E.
Stallings; a check dated May 29, 1965, to cash— strike that one.
Mr. Stallings, I would like to ask you the purpose for which the
money was used from checks made payable to cash, cosigned by your-
self.
Mr. Stallings. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
(Checks previously marked "John Magee Exhibit No. 3.")
The Chairman. You wrote the checks.
Mr. Appell, Was the income that went into tliis account income
received from units of the A.CCA, which were identical to the Klan
Klavern?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2561
Mr. Stalljngs. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Houston Pierce Morris.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear the testimonv you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Morris. I do.
TESTIMONY OF HOUSTON PIERCE MORRIS
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Morris ?
Mr. Morris. Houston Pierce Morris.
Mr. Appell. Before proceeding further, Mr. Morris, I note that you
are not accompanied by counsel. Do you desire counsel ?
Mr. Morris. No.
The Chairman. Do you understand, Mr. Morris, that you have a
right — if you do not, I am now telling you — to in your own way invoke
the fifth amendment if you desire ? Do you understand you have that
right?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
The Chairman. I say that because you do not have a lawyer. You
liave that right. It will be given to you and accorded to you just as if
you had a lawyer with you.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, when and where were you born?
Mr. Morris. October 4, 1935, Rayville, Richland Parish, Route 4,
Box 616, Xow I reside at 112 Texas Avenue, Monroe, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, will you give the committee your educa-
tional background ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel it miglit tend to incriminate me in violation
of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the
Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, you are appearing before the committer
in accordance witli a subpena served upon you the 26tli day of October,
1965, at 112 Texas Avenue, Monroe, Louisiana?
The Chairman. The question is, you are appearing here because
you were subpenaed to come here. That is the question.
Mr. Morris. That is correct.
Mr. Appell, Mr. Morris, the subpena served upon you calls for you
to produce certain books and records described in an attacliment to the
subpena which is made a part of the subpena. Paragraph 1 reads:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan— Louisiana, Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
America, Inc. — Louisiana, and United Klans of America— Louisiana, in your
possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as
officer and/or member of the above-mentioned organizations.
I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
2562 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Octoter 14, 1965, for the reason that I lionestly feel to do so might tend
to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of
America. I respfctfully decline to deliver to the committee any and
all records requested by this committee under subpena dated October
14, 1965, because that information is not relevant and gennane to any
subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress
in the consideration of any legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89tli Congress by House Resolution 8, adopted January
4, 1965.
The Chairman. Mr. Morris, I am not going to ask you a question,
but I am just telling you that that response has been used many times,
but yours is in very good form.
Were you here in the hearing room when I explained to the wit-
nesses that this subpena called on you to produce papers, books,
documents, and so forth ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
The Chairman. Not that they belonged to you, but in your capacity
as an officer. You understand that ?
Mr. Morris. Yts, sir.
The Chairman. I order and direct you to furnish those.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to produce the documents asked
for by the committee in the subpena dated October 14, 1965 for the
reason I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the T'nited States of America. I respect-
fully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as re-
quested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965. That
information is not relevant and germane to the subject under investiga-
tion and the same would not aid the Congress in its consideration of
legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to
be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress,
by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, I would advise you that in the future in
answer to a demand to produce documents all of your rights will be
protected if you will resi:)ond by the language you "refuse to produce
for tlie reasons previously stated." That would include all of the
reasons which you have stated.
I would like to ask you, however, Mr. Morris, before asking for the
production of documents contained in part '2, whether or not in con-
nection with the legal advice that you received with respect to your
appearance here if you were advised by counsel of the opening state-
ment of the chairman in October 1965, which set forth the purposes of
the hearing and the designation of the subcommittee, and whether or
not you understand them.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Mr. Morris, on the first dav of the hearings, I
made what is called an opening statement which indicates the reasons.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2563
purposes, objectives, the scope, and the purpose of holding the hear-
ings. All witnesses who appeared here with a lawyer agreed that either
the lawyer had explained my statement or he was familiar with it.
You said you were not.
Therefore, I now hand you a copy of my opening statement of
October 19, 1965, and I shall excuse you for a few" minutes so you will
have a chance to read it.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Robert Fuller.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, sir ?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Fuller. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT WILLIAM FULLER
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Fuller?
Mr. Fuller. Robert William Fuller.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, you are not represented by counsel. Do
you desire counsel ?
Mr. Fuller. No, sir. I have consulted one and I will go from that,
if you don't miiid.
Mr. Appell. I had a conversation \vith your counsel, Mr. Venable.
He explained to me that he had advised you of the purposes of the
hearing as contamed in the opening statement. You are familiar with
the purpose for which this hearing is being conducted?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir, I am.
The Chairman. One more question of Mr. Fuller.
Mr. Fuller, I want you to know because you are entitled to it — it is
your choice to invoke constitutional privileges if you wish to. I want
you to know that.
If you do, that right is a sacred one and it will be respected as if you
had a lawyer.
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, when and where were you bom ?
Mr. Fuller. Monroe, Louisiana, November 11, 1920.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee this afternoon
in accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 26th day of Octo-
ber, 1965 at 608 Winnsboro Road, Monroe, Louisiana?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir ; that is right.
Mr. xVppell. Mr. Fuller, the subpena served upon you calls for you
to produce :
All books, records, documents correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of America — Louisiana, also Original Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan and affiliated organizations in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as member and/or officer of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America — Louisiana, also the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana.
I ask you to produce those documents, sir.
2564 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN TIJE U.S.
Mr, Fuller. I respectfully refuse to do so. I honestly believe that
it might tend to incriminate me and is in violation of my constitutional
rights provided in article — 1, 4, 5, and 14t]i amendments of the Consti-
tution of the United States.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction to the witness.
The Chairman. You were in the hearing room when I explained
to the previous witnesses that this subpena served on you calls upon
you to produce documents, not of your own, but in your capacity as
stated in that subpena.
You miderstand that, do you ?
Mr. Fuller. Any what, now, sir?
The Chairman. That the subpena calls upon you to produce docu-
ments which might have been in your possession- — not belonging to you
but held, controlled, or possessed by you as an officer of the Klan. In
other words, it is not a call for personal papers. There is a distinction,
I say, you understand that ?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir. I still stick to this. I understand it; yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Then under the circumstances I order
you to produce them. Since you have no lawyer, you may. if you wish,
repeat your refusal to produce them.
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir. I respectfully refuse to produce records, and
I honestly believe that it might tend to incriminate me in violation of
the constitutional rights as provided in amendments 1, 4, 5, and 14th of
the Constitution of the United States.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Fuller, I hand you a series of oaths given to mem-
bers of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and ask you to
examine these series of oaths and ask you whether you ever subscribed
to them?
(Documents previously marked "John Swenson Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. You're almost a lawyer yourself.
Mr. Fuller. Thank you, Mr. Willis. I don't have much education.
I have to try to look out for myself.
^Mr^ Appell. Mr. Fuller, are you familiar with the Klavern of the
Ku Klux Klan in Louisiana known by the designation of the Monroe
Hunting and Fishing Club ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know tlie gentleman who was just excused
from the witness chair ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, sir, on
the same ground previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Is it a fact that you succeeded him as the exalted
Cyclops of the Klavern known as the Monroe Iluntino; and Fishing
Club?
Mr. Fuller. That question again, please, sir ?
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you succeeded him as the
exalted cyclops.
Mr. Fuller. You said it was a fact, though, sir. I didn't.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2565
Mr, Appei.l. I ask yon to aflivni or deny the fact.
Mr. Fuller. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I propose to pre-
sent to this committee the results of our investigation as they pertain
to Mr. Fuller.
Mr. Fuller has been in a leadership capacity in the Klan in Louisiana
since shortly after its activation in the beginning of the 1960's.
In 1963 he became the exalted cyclops of the Klavern known as the
Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club.
He later became chief of the Klan Bureau of Investigation under
J. D. Swenson and Royal V. Young and received compensation from its
account operated under the front or cover name Louisiana Rifle
Association.
He led the revolt against the leadership of Swenson and Young,
using the charge that they were only interested in the money they were
getting from Klan income.
Fuller became a leader under the reorganized Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan, and from this organization he received compensa-
tion in the amount of $3,955.47 during the period of February 11, 1964,
through September 29, 1964, from that organization's account known
as the Christian Constitutional Crusaders.
Fuller and other leaders under Murry H. Martin broke with Martin
at the end of 1964 and incorporated an organization known by the
name of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.,
in March 1965 for the purpose of attempting to bring all Louisiana
Klansmen under its banner.
In June 1964, the bulk of the officers and members of the Knights
of the Original Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., joined the United
Klans of America, Inc. The Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club, of
which Mr. Fuller was an exalted cyclops, had gone into the United
Klans of America, Inc., which operates in Louisiana under the front
or cover name of the Louisiana Rescue Service in the fall of 1964.
According to the records of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club
maintained at the Central Savings Bank & Trust Company, Monroe,
Louisiana, Mr. Fuller was described in the account, on authority of
the signature, as president, and he remained as president from August
21, 1963, to January 21, 1964.
This information, Mr. Chairman, leads us to believe that he possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in the enactment of
remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Fuller, the name of the man w^ho made this
statement is Don Appell. He is the chief investigator of this com-
mittee. He is under oath, just as you are.
Now I will give you the opportunity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to admit or deny the truth of any allegation, or to explain
or modify any part of that statement.
2566 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
In addition I shall g-ive you the opportunity, if you like, to offer
any other matter which this committee may deem relevant to this
inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity?
Mr. Fuller. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer that
question on the constitutional (grounds previously stated.
The CiiAiRMAx. In that case, Mr. Fuller, I must inform you that
since you did not take advantage of that opportunity, or if we do not
come in possession of other facts, this committee will rely upon the
accuracy of what Mr. Appell had to say. We have been very careful
in our investigation and it has come from many sources.
In view of Avhat I have said, Avould you care to say anything?
Mr. Fuller, In view of what, sir?
The Chairman. In view of the fact that unless you choose to ex-
plain or deny or affirm or comment on what Mr, Appell had to say,
the committee w^ill assume that what he said is true. We assume that
in view of that.
If you want to, I will now give you another opportunity to say any-
thing you want.
Mr. Fuller. I state the same, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. In other words, you refuse on the grounds previ-
ously stated?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir ; I respectfully decline to answer that question
on the constitutional grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr, Appell.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Fuller, on June 26, 1965, 1 interviewed Houston P.
Morris at Travel Lodge Motel in Monroe, Louisiana. Mr. Fuller ex-
plained that 3 weeks or so prior to the interview
Mr. Fuller. Mr. Morris.
Mr. Appell. — Mr. Morris stated that the bulk of his organization
had gone over to the United Klans of America, but he said that you
hadn't gone because you didn't want to give up your title.
Mr, Fuller. Didn't want to give up what, sir ?
Mr, Appell. Your title.
Mr. Fuller. I have no comment.
Mr. Appeli/. I am asking you whether Mr. Morris' testimony was
truthful?
Mr. Fuller, I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, I liand you two separate documents, fonns
issued by the Federal Commimications Conmiission, both forms being
applications for Class B, C, or D station license in the Citizens Kadio
Service. The first is Robert W. Fuller, dated 8-22-1964, and seeks au-
thority to operate four transmitters.
The second, signed Robert W. Fuller, dated 8-14-64, is in the name
of Fuller's Sanitation Service, and seeks authority to operate 10 trans-
mitters.
I hand you these and ask you if these are factual copies of applica-
tions which you made.
Mr. FuLi^R. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2567
(Documents marked ''Robert Fuller Exhibits Nos, 1-A and 1-B,"
respectively. See pp. 2568-2571.)
The Chairman. What does that sanitation business do? You don't
have to answer, but I am curious to know.
Mr. Fuller. Mr. Willis, I wouldn't mind answering that at the start.
That's my business. But you have me way down in the middle of it,
and I think that should have come up, sir, at the start of my program.
The Chairman. I won't press it.
Mr, Fuller. I will be glad to write you a letter and tell you con-
cerning what it is. It's legitimate.
The Chairman. What I wanted to know was, really, that is an
awful lot of transmitters to use in a cleaning or sanitation business.
Mr. Fuller. I have 18 pieces of equipment, no Klan equipment.
The Chairman. Why didn't you say in answer to previous questions
that you had no Klan connections? I won't ])ress the question because
you don't have a lawyer. You are now saying you have no Klan con-
nections. I don't Iviiow what you mean by that.
Mr. Fuller. I believe you asked me the question, sir
The Chairman. I now ask you the question — Are you now, or have
you ever been, a member of the Klan ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
gi'ounds of my constitutional rights.
The Chairman. Are you now, or have you ever been, an officer of tlie
Klan?
Mr. Fuller. I state the same. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. I thought you would.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, have any of the transmitters authorized for
you ever been used to carry out any activity on the part of the Klan?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, if Mr. Morris's statement to me was truth-
ful, that you did not go into the Klan, United Klan, what Klan orga-
nization, if any, are you now affiliated with?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, do you continue membership in the Monroe
Hunting and Fishing Club which in October of 1964 was a Klavern
of the Louisiana Rescue Service ?
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the constitutional grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions to ask of this witness.
The Chairman. You are excused.
Mr. Fuller. May I ask a question, if it is permissible ?
The Chairman. It is perfectly all right with me.
I must warn you, if you do he will ask some of you.
Mr. Fuller. Maybe I will ask him later. It is important, but not
in this investigation.
The Chairman. I will be glad to talk to you.
Mr. Fuller. Thank you, sir.
(Robert Fuller Exhibits Nos. 1-A and 1-B introduced above
follow:)
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 16
2568 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Robert Fuller Exhibit No. 1-A
Ftt, FORM SOS
REVISTO MAT m5
UNITED STATFS OF AMERICA
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHINGTON. O.C. lOSM
R«M jvraovcD
BUDGET 9UREMJ NO. U-RIZLIO
APPLICATION FOR CLASS B. C, OR D STATION LICENSE IN THE
CITIZENS RADIO SERVICE
DO NOT WRITE IN THIS BLOCK
?.^^
'I'l/':
1. Application for C\&-o» A station liconsf muot be filrrt or FCC FOIIM 400.
2. Complptp on typowriter or print clcsrly. /.L'G C I 'J •
3. Bp sure application i«« nignrd and dated. Mnil application to Fcdrral Com-
munirations Com mi Mi on, Gettysburg, Pa.. 1782.S.
ipjmMirlnte f.-e with applicnVivn.- i/ rcqii.r.d. J)l) "NOT SUMMIT
CASH, \lakr chrck or morry o rdff bay altl*" to I'-'ir"""! ('"niinuhirationB
4. Knrlnsc apji
nry ordff'ba'.-
CommiMion. (Seo Part 19, Volume Vr-ol i>X'<:,nih(i io dttprrtifnp whether
a (re is required with this application )
NAME OF APPLICANT
BU^>^t^S NAME lOR LA^T NAME, IF AN INDIVIDUAL)
/^ (^ LI- /r/r
FIRST N/[tlE ItF AN INOIVIDUAU
/y^ z3 y^yTT-
MIDDLE INITIAL
oO
IF AN INDIVIDUAL OPERATING UNDER A TRADE NAME GIVE INDIVIDUAL
NAME. OR IF PARTNERSHIP. LIST NAMES OF PARTNERS (Do nnl ttptal
any name MMd tn iUm i)
MAILING ADDRESS
l,"6ER .»D STREET / ^fi ^ SOf^^S^J^
/>6 ey<y /yc e-
STATE
L 3.
COUNT r OR EQUIVALENT SUBDIVISION
• t7 (//^ C/>> /T'A
CLASSIFICATION OF APPLICANT {Sii inttruelimt)
[u]^NDIVIOU*L I [ ASSOCIATION Q
I I PARTNERSHIP [^ CORPORATION [^ OTHER (Sp<ci/»).
CLASS OF STATION (Check only mt)
D'
D'
&«•
IS THIS APPLICATION TO MODIFY OH RENEW AN EXISTING STATION LICENSE'
00 YOU NOW HOLD ANY STATION LICENSE, OTHER THAN THAT COVERED BY ITEM 6,
OF THE SAME CLASS AS THAT REQUESTED BY THIS APPLICATION?
□ y«
Q^
TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSMITTERS TO BE AUTHORIZED UNDER REQUESTED STATION
LICENSE
(NiMbtr)
I
?
DOES EACH TRANSMITTER TO BE OPERATED APPEAR ON THE COMMIS-
SION S ■ RADIO EQUIPMENT LIST, PART C, OR IF FOR CLASS C OH
CLASS 0 STATIONS. IS IT CRYSTALCONTROLLEDI (// «0, aUdcA
dtlaiUd deMcription: tee subpart C of Part t9)
A WILL APPLICANT OWN ALL THE RADIO EQUIPMENT? (// no, OMlPCf
B and C below)
NAME OF OWNER
IS THE APPLICANT A PARTY TO A WRITTEN LEASE OR OTHER AGREEMENT UNDER
WHICH IME CWNERSMtP OR CONTROL WILL BE EXERCISED IN THE SAME MAN-
NER AS IF THE EQUIPMENT WERE OWNED BY THE APPLICANT'
HftS APPLICANT READ AND UNOfRSTOODtHE PROVISIONS OF PART 19,
SUBPART D DEALING WITH PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHICH
THIS CLASS OF STATION MAY BE USED'
WILL THE USE OF THE STATION CONFORM IN ALL RESPECTS WITH THE
PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS AS SET FORTH IN PART 19, SUBPART DJ
WILL THE STATION BE OPERATED BY ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE
APPLICANT MEMBERSOF HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR HIS EMPLOYEES'
{If j/rs. altarh a aeparaU nhrft tilting (he names and rtlalionshxp of all
etich prrionB and give a detailed reason for their operation of your
Btation)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP. ARE YOU OR ANY
OF THE PARTNERS AN ALIEN*
IS APPLICANT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY ALIEN OR ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT' (// ^f.i. explain fully)
WITHIN 10 YEARS PREVIOUS TO THE DATE OF THIS APPLICATION HAS
THE APPLICANT OR ANY PARTY TO THIS APPLICATION BEEN CONVICTED
IN A FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL COURT OF ANY CRIME FOR WHICH THE
PENALTY IMPOSED WAS A FINEOFJSOOOR MORE OR AN IMPRISONMENT
OF 6 MONTHS OR MORE' (Sre instruclinnn. }f yet. attach a tfparate
nhfct giving details of each such conviction)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP, ARE YOU OR ANY
PARTNER LESS THAN 18 YEARS OF AGE ;LESS THAN 12 YEARS OF AGE IF
FOR CLASS C STATION LICENSE*?
\^
IF THE PRINCIPAL LOCATION WHERE THE STATION WILL BE
USED IS DIFFERENT FROM THE MAILING ADDRESS (ITEM 3>.
GIVE THAT LOCATION. (DO NOT GIVE POST OFFICE BOX OR
RFD NO.) — ^— ^— ^— ^— — — ^—
NUMBER AND STREET
DO
SCREENING
NOT yn
:ninc %Jj4
ITS IS THIS no V
D N
UCN AND DATE THE APPLICATION ON REVERSE SIDE
/"
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2569
Robert Fuller Exhibit No. I -A — Continued
19 IF APPLiCA\r ^SJ^ nosgovehnmental
CORPORATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS:
IS CORF»ORXTfON ORGANIZED UNDtR LA*S OF ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT!
IS ANY OFFICER OR DrflECTOR OF THE CORPORATION AN ALIEN?
IS MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK EITHER OWNED OF
RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES.
OR BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT OH REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF OR BY
ANY CORPORATION ORGftNiZED UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN
COUNTRYJ
IS APPLICANT DIRECTLY OR iNDIRtCTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY OTHER
CORPORATION? (If yt-», anaucr lUmt E through K btlow)
GIVE NAME AND ADDRESS OF CONTROLLING CORPORATION
IS MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK OF CONTROLLING
cDBPORftTioN Either owned of rlcord or may it be .jted by
ALIENS Oft THEIR representatives. OR BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
OR REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF, OR BY ANY CORPORATION ORGANIZED
UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY? (1/ ye*. ptK dttaxU)
(5 ANY OFFICER OR MORE THAN ONEFOURTH OF THE DIRECTORS OF
THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION AN ALIEN? {// V«. anawtT Hem*
I aiid J btlow)
TOTAL NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN CONTROLLING CORPORATION
LIST ALL OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS WHO ARE ALIENS IN CONTROLLING
CORPORATION AND GIVE BRIEF BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENT FOR EACH
ALIEN
IS THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION IN TURN CONTROLLED
BY OTHER COMPANIES? (// yet, ailaeh information for each I — ]
of thtte conlroilino eompanite cottring th« information re- I 1
quttUd in ilema E through J, above)
D'
30 IF APPLICANT IS AN UNINCORPORATED
ASSOCIATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS:
I OFFICER OR DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION AN ALIEN?
ARE MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIA
TION ALIENS OR REPRESENTATIVES OF ALIENS FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
OR REPRESENTATIVES THEREOF OR CORPORAIIONS ORGANIZED UNDER
THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY'
IS THE ASSOCIATION DiRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY
OTHER ORGANIZATION? ;// V't. give detatUd explonatton)
USE THIS SPACE FOR ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OR REMARKS
^dd m^ S^ / ^ /S-oo Su/v3ef
gnatxir©
WILLFUL FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS FORM ARE PUN-
ISHABLE BY FINE AND IMPRISONMCNT. U.S. CODE, TITLE 18.
SECTION 1001.
ALL THE STATEMENTS M*OE IN THE APPLICATION AND ATTACHED EXHIBITS ARE CONSIDERED MATERIAL REPRESENTATIONS. AND ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE
A MATERIAL PART HEREOF AND ARE INCORPORATED HEREIN AS IF SET OUT IN FULL IN THE APPLICATION.
I CERTIFY THAT:
The applicant has (or has ordered from the Government Printing Office) a current copy of Part 19 of the Commission's rules governing
the Citizens Radio Service;
The applicant waives any claim to the use of any particular frequency or of the ether as against the regulatory power of the United
States because of the previous use of the same, whether by license or otherwise .
The applicant accepts full responsibility for the operation of. and will retain control of any citizens radio station licensed to him pursuant
to this application ;
The station will be operated m full accordance with the applicable law and the current rules of the Federal Communications Commission ,
The said station will not be used for any purpose contrary to Federal, State or local law ;
The applicant will have unlimited access to the radio equipment and effective measures will be taken to prevent its use by unauthorized
persons ; and
The statements in this application are true, complete, and correct to the best ofy^y knowledge and belief and a^^made in good faith.
Z. ^I .^/- OATe SI^EDt
DO NOT OPERATE UNTIL VOU HAVE
YOUR OWN LICENSE.
USE OF ANY CALL SIGN NOT VOUR
OWN IS PROHIBITED.
SIGNATUREi
KCheck apprdp^'fate>T>ox below):
l^TKT^DtVIDUAL | 1 MEMBER OF i 1 OFFICER OF APPLICANT i 1 OFFICIAL OF
I ) APPLICANT I APPLICANT J CORPORATION OB GOVERNMENTAL
PARTNERSHIP
ASSOCIATION
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINIImG OFFICE IH]-O-e94-fl0l
2570
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Robert Fuller Exhibit No. 1-B
FCC FORM 5«
n£vis£0 lur iiu
C£ A
^
^
^— ' / ' LiNJTED STUItS OF AMERICA
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASMIN&ION. D.C. Jo^y
APPLICATION FOR CLASS B, C. OR O STATION LICENSE IN THE
CITIZENS RADIO SERVICE
FORM APPPOVED
auCX^CT BUREAU NO. U-HIU.IO
DO
NOT
WRITE
IN
THIS
BLO(^K
i '
'i.
^
CrO
3':8
.»
nrir;.''-'
L
■■■:
T-
;-,. •:•«•<..
1. Appliralinn for Class A station licrnsr muni be filprf on FCC FORM 400.
2. Complete on typewriter or print clcarly.
3. Br sure appliration in nignM and dan^d. Mail application to Frderal Com-
munirations Commission. Gettysburg, Pa., 1732S.
4. Fnclo-"*- anprnpriale f.-o w.lh application, if rrquirrd. DO NOT SUBMIT
("ASH. Makr rhiok of monry ord« r payahlc to F«-drraI Communiratinna
Ci.mmission. (Soc Tart ID. Volume VI of FCC rules to drtprminc whether
B frc IS required with this application }
NAME OF APPLICANT
BUSINESS NAi*E |0(t LAST liAME. IF AM INDIVIDUAL)
/'/y.L / c- /f C >y^ yy / rA /T.. .;/ 5 ':r.y ,
FIRST NAME (IF AN INCMVIOUAU
MIDDL£ INITIAL
IF AN INDIVIDUAL OPERATING UNDER A TRADE NAME GIVE INDIVIDUAL
NAME. OR IF PARTNERSHIP. LIST NAMES OF PARTNERS \Uo nol rrprtU
any name uacd in tUm t)
LAST NAMES
^l/lUR
/^Ul l e/^
/?o/e/?
r
/^/?//-/v pes
14/
M.
MAILING ADDRESS
NUMBCfl AND STREET
PO P,o^ t?/?
/l^ u/V A «-•' C
COUNTT OR EQUIVALENT SUBDIVISION
Aj^
CLASSIFICATION OF APPLICANT (Ste xn»lTuction»)
I I INDIVIDUAL j~| ASSOCIATION Q] ]
[^ PARTNERSHIP F"] CORPORATION [~] OTHER {Sptci/y):
CLASS OF STATION {Cheek only oiu)
D'
D'
0'
IS THIS APPLICATION TO MODIFY OR RENEW AN EXISTING STATION LICENSE)
[ I VEt (CiM eaU ■ign); [^ NO
OO YOU NOW MOLD ANY STATION LICENSE. OTHER THAN THAT COVERED BY ITEM 6.
OF THE SAME CLASS AS THAT REQUESTED BY THIS APPLICATION?
D'
0'
DOES EACH TRANSMITTER TO BE OPERATED APPEAR ON THE COMMIS-
SION S RADIO EQUIPMENT LIST. PART C OR IF FOR CLASS C OR
CLASS D STATIONS. IS IT CRYSTAL CONTROLLED' (// n«. aUach
dtlaiUd dtBcripUojL aet tubparl C of Pari ] 9)
A WILL APPLICANT OWN ALL THE KADiO EQUIPMENT? (//no, aiuvier
U and C Itcliiw)
NAME OF OWNER
IS THE APPLICANT * PARTY TO A WRITTEMEASE OROTHER AGREEMENT UNDER
WHICH THE OWNERSHIP OR CONTROL WILL b£ E HERCISECl IN THE SAME MAN.
NEH AS IF THE EQUIPMENT WERE OWNED BY THE APPLICANT?
HAS APPLICANT HEAD AND UNDERSTOOD THE PROVISIONS OF PART 19,
SUBPART D DEALING WITH PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHICH
THIS CLASS OF STATION MAY BE USEDJ
WILL THE USE OF THE STATION CONFORM IN ALL RESPECTS WITH THE
PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS AS SET FORTH IN PART 19. SUBPART DT
WILL THE STATION BE OPcRATED BY ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE
APPLICANT MEMBERS OF HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY. OR HIS EMPLOYEES?
{tf yr*. oUach a sf parole fhrrl It^-ting llie nameti and retationihip of all
auch pertona and give a detailed recmon for Uuir operaiion of your
itoiion)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP. ARE YOU OR ANY
OF THE PARTNERS AN ALIEN?
IS APPLICANT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY ALIEN OR ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT? Uf ve», explain fully}
WITHIN 10 YEARS PREVIOUS TO THE DATE OF THIS APPLICATION. HAS
THE APPLICANT OH ANY PARTY TO THIS APPLICATION BEEN CONVICTED
IN A FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL COURT OF ANY CRIME FOR WHICH THE
PENALTY IMPOSED WAS A FINE OF 1500 OR MORE. OR AN IMPRISONMENT
OF 6 MONTHS OH MORE' {Sre instructiona. If yet, aUaeh a »cparaU
ahccl gtvtng drlaiU of taeh nuch convirtion)
IF APPLICANT iS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP, ARE YOU OR ANY
PARTNER LESS THAN 1S YEARS OF AGE <LESS THAN 12 YEARS OF AGE IF
FOR CLASS C STATION LICENSE)*
YES , NO
L^
y
y
IF THE PRINCIPAL LOCATION WHERE THE STATION WILL BC
USED IS DIFFERENT FROM THE MAILING ADDRESS (ITEM 3),
GIVE THAT LOCATION. (DO NOT GIVE POST OFFICE BOX OR
RFD /VO )
NUMBER AND STREH
jAX^^^S^sL^iL^^^r.
'^C.^ l<o <.
L4
DO NOT IV
SCREENING
(TE IN THIS BOX
SIGN AND DATE THE APPLICATION ON REVERSE SIDE
•ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2571
Robert Fuller Exhibit No. 1-B— Continued
19 IF APPLICANT 13 A NONGOVEKNMEyTAL : ^^
CORPORATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS "^^ '
IS COfiPORMiON ORGANIZED UNDER LAWS OF ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT!
rS ANY OFFICER OR DIRECTOR OF THE CORPORATION AN ALIEN'
IS MORE THAN ONE FIFTH QP THE CAPITAL STOCK EITHER OWNED OF
RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES
OR BY A FORtIGN GOVERNMENT OR REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF. OR BY
ANY CORPORATION ORGANIZED UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN
COUNTRY?
IS APPLICANT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY OTHER
CORPORATION? (// yta. ausuer iUma £ Ihruu^h K' bd^ju'i
GIVt NAME AND ADDRESS OF CONTROLLING CORPORATION
UNDER THE LAWS OF WHAT STATE OR COUNTRY IS THE CONTROLLING
CORPORATION ORGANIZED'
IS MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK OF CONTROLLING
CORPORATION EITHER OWNED OF RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY
*' \i ss -jR TMfin nrP"r<^<-NTATivf'^. np nr a roRf ign GovcRnmEmt
OR REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF, OR BY AN^ CORPORATION ORGANIZED
UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY? (// yc3, ffiff dttailt)
IS ANY OFFICER OR MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE DIRECTORS OF
THE CONTROLLING. CORPORATION AN ALIEN? (If yes. antwer tUma
I and J btlow)
TOTAL NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN CONTROLLING CORPORATION
LIST ALL OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS WHO ARE ALIENS IN CONTROLLING
CORPORATION AND GItfE BRIEF BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENT FOR EACH
ALIEN
NATIONALITY
IS THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION IN TURN CONTROLLED
BY OTHER COMPANIES? (// v'"- aUath informulton fur cacA
of thetf euntrolttno companies covering the xnfarmaUon te
quelled \n xUrm £." thfough J, abope)
n
IF APPLICANT /S AN UNINCORPORATED
ASSOCIATIO/V. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
IS ANY OFFICER OR DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION AN ALIEN?
ARE MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIA
HON ALIENS OR RLPRESLNTATIVESOF ALIENS FORI IGN GOVERNMENTS
OR REPRESENTATIVES THEREOF. OR CORPORATIONS ORGANIZE D UNDER
THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY?
IS THE ASSOCIATION DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY
OTHER ORGANIZATION? (// yta. give dituiUd rxplunudoni
HIS SPACE FOR ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OR REMARKS
WILLFUL FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS FORM ARE PUN-
ISHABLE BY FINE AND IMPRISONMENT. U.S. CODE, TITLE 18.
SECTION 1001.
ALL TMt STATEMENTS MADE IN THE APPLICATION AND ATTACHED EXHIBITS ARE CONSIDERED MATERIAL REPRESENTATIONS. AND ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE
A MATERIAL PART HEREOF AND ARE INCORPORATED HEREIN AS IF SET OUT IN FULL IN THE APPLICATION.
I CERTIFY THAT:
The applicant has (or has ordered from the Government Printing Office) a current copy of Part 19 of the Commission's rules governing
the Citizens Radio Service,
The applicant waives any claim to the use of any particular frequency or of the ether as against the regulatory power of the United
States because of the previous use of the same, whether by license or otherwise .
The applicant accepts full responsibility for the operation of. and will retain control of any citizens radio station licensed to him pursuant
to this application ;
The station will be operated in full accordance with the applicable law and the current rules of the Federal Communications Commission ;
The ftdid btatiun wiM nof h^ um>H for any pijFpn»o contrary to FpHoral, State ur luLd' low .
The applicant will have unlimited access to the radio equipment and effective measures will be taken to prevent tls use by unauthorized
persons . and
The statements m this application are true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and are made m good faith.
c.r.>.>T..i,r. / //■' 4 ^ ( /^^^ '^ -j/i/yLf-L^^ DATE SIGNED. ^ ^ />/ - h ¥l
{Check appfopriato hot. b9lo<f/): / (
□ INDIVIDUAL ff-n MtMBER OF 1 1 OFFICER OF APPLICANT I 1 OFFICIAL OF
APPLICANT r APPLICANT CORPORATION OR GOVERNMENTAL
^'-^ PARTNERSHIP ASSOCIATION ENTITY
DO
NOT
OPERATE
UNTIL VOU
HAVE
YOUR
OWN
LICENSE.
USE
OF
ANY
CALL
SIGN NOT
YOUR
OWN
IS PROHIBITED.
U.S GOvEhNMENI PHINllnC OFUCt 1963-O-«fl4-«01
Repfifiled by E F, Johnson Company
2572 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. I will recall Mr. Houston P. Morris.
TESTIMONY OP HOUSTON PIERCE MORRIS— Resumed
The Chairman. Mr. Morris, during this interval when you were
excused from the stand, I take it you have had oportunity to famil-
iarize yourself with my stated reasons for the purposes of this hearing.
Mr. Morris. Right.
The Chairman. He says he is familiar with the opening statement.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, will you give the committee a brief resume
of your educational background?
Mr. Morris. I respectfiilly decline to answer that question for the
reason I lionestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in viola-
tion of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14
of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainnan, in view of the fact Mr. Morris did not
know the content of your opening statement, the purpose of the hear-
ings, I shall again ask him to produce the documents called for under
the subpena.
You were ordered and directed under the subpena to produce under
paragraph 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana, Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
America, Inc. — Louisiana and United Klans of America — Louisiana, in your
possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as an
officer and/or member of the above-mentioned organizations.
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as commanded by the committee in the subpena
dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, be-
cause that information is not relevant and germane to any subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of
that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by
the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. I ask for a direction for the production of documents
called for in paragraph 1.
The Chairman. Were you in the hearing room when I explained,
Mr. Morris, that this subpena asked you to produce documents as an
officer of the Klan and documents and papers of your own. Do you
understand that?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Tlie Chairman. I therefore order and direct you to produce those
documents.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as commanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so might
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2573
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of xVmerica.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
because that information is not relevant and germane to any subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope
of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted
by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. lender part 2 of the subpena, paragraph 2, you are
directed to produce :
AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or i>ast member and/or officer of the United Klans of America, Inc. —
Louisiana, Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan — Louisiana and the Original
Knights of the Klu Klux Klan of America, Inc. — Louisiana, which the "Constitu-
tion and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by
you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession,
custody or control.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as commanded by the committee in the subpena
dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendm.ents 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
because that information is not relevant and germane to any subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope
of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted
by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. I ask for a direction for the production of documents
called for in paragraph 2.
The Chairman. For the reasons indicated, I order and direct the
witness to produce the documents.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, are you currently a member of the United
Klans of America, Realm of Louisiana, which operates under the cover
name of the Louisiana Rescue Service ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. I hand you a document, authority to the Central
Savings Bank & Trust Company, Monroe, Louisiana, issued by the
president and secretary of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club,
which designates Houston Morris as president and contains the signa-
ture of Houston P. Morris, signed by Bruce Bairnsfather, secretary,
and Houston P. Morris, president, and I ask you if you are the Houston
P. Morris who signed that document.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
2574 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
violation of my rights as gruaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
(Document previously marked "Murry Martin Exhibit No. 6." See
pp. 2369.)
The Chairman. Mr. Morris, a minute or two ago I ordered you to
produce documents called for in paraofraph 2. Somehow you did not
respond. Mr. Appell then went to another question.
I now again order you to produce the documents called for in
paragraph 2 of the subpena.
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as commanded by the committee in the subpena
dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
because that infoiTnation is not relevant and germane to any subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope
of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted
by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. In view of the witness' claim of privilege and his
consistent refusal to answer questions, I propose to present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Morris.
Mr. Morris was the first president and exalted cyclops of the Orig-
inal Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Klavem in Monroe, Louisiana,
known by the cover name of the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club.
He was the grand kleagle or State organizer of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan under the leadership of J. D. Swenson and Royal
V. Young. He was the grand kleagle — or state organizer, realm or-
ganizer— of the Original Knights under the leadership of Murry H.
Martin. He was the leader of a faction which resulted in the removal
of leadership of Royal V. Young and the succession of Muriy H.
Martin.
At the time of the ele<>tion of Murry H. IMartin, a deal was consum-
mated between Mr. Martin and Mr. Morris whereby Mr. IMorris ^^X)uld
retain leadership of the organization, and Mr. Martin would retain
leadership of the organization for 6 months until elections were to be
held, at which time it was scheduled for Mr. Morris to take over
the top office.
Wlien Mr. Martin defeated Mr. Morris in elections in November
1964, Mr. Morris led dissension within tliat orffanizntioii, and in 1965
incorporated the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America,
Inc., along with Jack Saucier, 809 Sou^h Eighth Street, Monroe, and
George Bonner, 1511 Alabama Street, Monroe.^
After incorporation, Morris became the Imperial Wizard of the
organization.
April 28, 1965, Mr. INIorris addressed a letter to the secretary of state
informing the secretary of state that he had resigned from the board
^ See B. J. Sander Exhibit No. 1, committee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan
Movement, pp. 320-324.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2575
of directors of the Original Kii Kkix Klan of America, Inc., and
advised the secretary of state that his letter of resignation had been
accepted by the board of directors.'
In May or June of 1965, Mr. Moiris, together with other former
members of the Original Knights of the Ku Khix Klan of America,
Inc., met with Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton of the United Klans
of America and took the bulk of his organization into the United Klans
of America.
As the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Morris organized some Klansmen in
the State of Arkansas. These Arkansas members are now under Mr.
Shelton's organizational structure in that State.
Tliis information, Mr. Chairman, leads us to believe that Mr. Mor-
ris possesses additional information which is both pertinent and rele-
vant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting
remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Morris, the name of the gentleman w^io just
made that statement is Mr. Appell. He is under oath just like you,
and I now give you the opportunity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to admit or deny the truth of any allegation, and explain
or modify any part of the statement.
In addition, I give you the opportunity, if you wish, to offer any
other matter the committee may deem pertinent to this inquiry.
Do you wish to avail yourself of this opportunity?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Morris, I inform you that in the
absence of your rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the atten-
tion of the committee, the committee will rely upon the accuracy of
its investigation.
Do you wish to say anything to that ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1, and
14 of the Constitution of the TTnited States of America.
The Chairman. All right, proceed.
INIr. Appell. Mr. Morris, were you interviewed by me at the Travel
Lodge Motel in Monroe, Louisiana, on June 16, 1965?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, did vou admit to me during that interview
that you were a member of the Klan, and that you had recently taken
your Klan organization, yourself and others, into the TTnited Klans
of America ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
1 See B. J. Saucier Exhibit No. 2, p. 2583.
2576 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, when I discussed with you income which
you had received as an organizer for the Khm and asked you whether
you had reported same on your income tax returns, you advised me you
had reported it and for me to find it.
Is that factual, sir ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. In 1963, did you report $925 of that as public good will
donations ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments .5, 4, 1, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. In 1964, did you report $2,353.65 as donations from
speeches at political meetings ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. In discussing the organizational structure of the Klan,
Mr. Morris, did you advise me that the Klan was a nonviolent organiza-
tion ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Did you admit to me that investigating procedures of
new members was such that people prone to \aolence would not be
kept out of membership in the Klan ?
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Morris, this next statement I will put to you as a
fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact.
When asked what action you would take against a member who was
guilty of killing a Negro, that you responded, you "don't give a damn
if they went out and killed 100."
Mr. Morris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 4, 1,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman, to ask of
this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The committee stands in recess.
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and
Buchanan.)
(Whereupon, at 5 :10 p.m., Thursday, January 6, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Friday, January 7, 1966.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
FRIDAY, JANUARY 7, 1966
United States House of Representatives
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities
Washington, D.G.
public hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as
reconstituted for the January 7 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at
10:20 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building,
Washington, D.C., Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and John H.
Buchanan, Jr., of Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and Bu-
chanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
As chairman of the full Committee on Un-American Activities, I
hereby constitute a committee of three to conduct the hearings today,
of the following: myself, as chairman of the subcommittee; Mr. Welt-
ner, of Georgia ; and Mr. Buchanan, of Alabama. And, of course, two
members constitute a quorum of this subcommittee, and I announce
the presence of a quorum.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I call to the witness stand Robert T.
Rester.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear, sir, the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Rester. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT T. RESTER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MICHAEL S. INGRAM
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, will you state your full name for the record,
please.
Mr. Rester. Robert T. Rester.
2577
2578 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr, Rester. Yes, sir, I am.
Mr. Appell. Would counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Ingram. Michael S. Ingram, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, are you appearing today in accordance
with the subpena served upon 'you on December 28, 1965, which calls
for your appearance on January 10, and you are appearing this morn-
ing because of an arrangement between your coimsel and the com-
mittee?
Mr. Rester. I am.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Rester. Bogalusa, Louisiana, May 3, 1930.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Rester. Bogalusa, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Do you reside at a street and number? '
Mr, Rester, 1353 Edward Lane.
Mr. Appell. Do you have a business address in Bogalusa?
Mr. Rester, 311 First Avenue,
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, would you give the committee your educa-
tional background ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that it
might tend to incriminate me and cite as the basis of this refusal the
1st, the 4th, the 5th, and the 14th amendments of the United States
Consitution.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee your employment back-
ground ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, are you a member of the bar of the State of
Louisiana as well as the city attorney of Bogalusa?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer the question on the grounds prev-
iously stated, sir. '
Mr. Appell, Mr, Rester, I hand you a copy of the articles of incor-
poration of the Anti-Communist Christian Association. I invite your
attention to page 2 of tlie articles of incorporation, specifically Article
V. Registered Agents, wliicli reads, "The full names and post office
addresses of the corporation's registered agents are : Robert T. Rester,
311 First Avenue, P.O. Box 1160, Bogalusa, Louisiana ; Saxon Fanner,
315 East Fifth Street, Bogalusa, Louisiana." And I ask you if you
are the Robert T, Rester indicated as one of tlie two agents.
Mr. Rester. Sir, I decline to answer the question on the grounds
previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Saxon Farmer Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, the three-judge court
The Chairman. Please speak up a little bit, both of you. It is hard
for us to follow.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, the three-judge court in New Orleans
which considered an injunction against certain residents of Bogalusa,
including the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the iA.nti-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2579
Communist Christian Association, found that the Anti-Communist
Christian Association was a front or|i;anized to operate as a Klan-type
organization. As one of the agents of tliat corporation, is the finding
of the tliree-judge court factual ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, at the time these incorporation papers were
drawn — and according to the corporation papers, they were drawn
"the 1st day of the month of December, in the year of Our Lord, One
Thousand Nine Hundred and Sixty Four," — were you a member of
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you were the exalted cyclops of a unit in Bogalusa.
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, as the exalted cyclops of a unit and under
the constitution by which the organization was supposed to govern
itself, there was in each Klavem a klokan chief. I ask you who was
the klokan chief of your Klavern.
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. The klokan chief was supposed to appoint six members
to an organization known within the Klavem and Klan as the wreck-
ing crew. Who were the members of the wrecking crew of your
Klavem ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, in light of the admissions of Saxon Farmer
and Charles Christmas and the admission of counsel representing the
Klan, Anti-Communist Christian Association, as well as the defend-
ants in that action — I might point out you were not a defendant —
members did in fact engage in violent acts. I would like to ask you
whether or not you are quoted correctly in a syndicated article by
Murray Kempton which quotes you as saying that the town of Boga-
lusa owes the Klan a vote of thanks. I show you the article to which
I am referring.
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Rester. Sir, I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
(Document marked "Robert, Rester Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, do you know Clayton Hines of T^ees Creek
near Bogalusa ?
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the gi'ounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. According to Mr. Hines' testimony before the three-
judge court, he was the secretary of the Klavem of which you were
the exalted cyclops, and through him the Government introduced in
2580 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
evidence a list of, I believe, 151 members of the Klan in the Bog'alusa
area, and Mr. Hines testified that the list was made up in your office
with your assistance. I ask you if his testimony was true.
Mr. Rester. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask of
this witness. I ask that the documents referred to be entered in the
record at the place where they were mentioned.
The Chairman". The documents will be inserted in the record at the
respective points indicated.
(The chairman, Mr. Appell, and Mr. Ingram confer.)
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Rester, are you now a member of any Klan-type
organization ?
Mr. Rester. No, sir.
The Chairman. And that is your statement under oath ?
Mr. Rester. Yes, sir ; that is my statement.
The Chairman. And you are an attorney and you know the mean-
ing of an oath ?
Mr. Rester. Correct.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask of
this witness.
The Chairman, The witness is excused.
Mr. Rester. Thank you.
The Chairman. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. B. J. Saucier.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimonv you are about to give will he
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Saucier. I do.
TESTIMONY OF B. J. "JACK" SATJCIER
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Saucier?
Mr. Saucier. I have initials only. B. J. Saucier. Jack is a nick-
name.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in response to a sub-
pena served upon you on the 26th day of October 1965 at 608 Winns-
boro Road, Monroe, Louisiana ?
Mr. Saucier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, you are not accompanied by counsel. Do
you desire counsel ?
Mr. Saucier. No, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Saucier, T want to tell you that if von wish
you may invoke the fifth amendment at any point you think you
ought to. T say that because you won't have the benefit of advice
from counsel. If you exercise that ricfht, I will accept it in the same
manner and treat it in the same wav as if you had counsel.
Mr. Saucier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, Attorney James Venable advised me that
he was your attorney or is your attorney, that he had given you legal
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2581
advice, and that it was agreeable with him that yon testify without
him. Is that right, sir?
Mr. Saucier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did ^fr. Venable exphiin to you the purposes for which
the committee is sitting and holding these hearings as outlined in the
opening statement of Chairman AVillis in October of last year?
Mr. Saucier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. ]Mr. Saucier, paragraph 1 of the subpena served upon
you called for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans. of America, Inc., and Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and
affiliated organizations, namely, Choshota Parish Unit of the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by
you or available to you as member and/or officer of the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, or the United Klans of America, Louisiana.
I ask you to produce those documents, Mr. Saucier.
Mr. Saucier. Sir, I respectfully refuse to do so. I earnestly believe
that it might tend to incriminate me and violate my constitutional
rights as provided under article I, article IV, article V, and the 14th
amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
The Chairman. Mr. Saucier, I think you were in the hearing room
and heard me explain that this subpena was served on you as an
officer of the Klan group and to produce those records in that capacity.
You are aware of that?
Mr. Saucier. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. In view of that, I order and direct you to produce
those documents.
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully refuse to do so on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, paragraph 2 called for you to produce:
ah books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past member and/or officer of the United Klans of America,
Louisiana and Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Louisiana which the
"Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main-
tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your
possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those documets.
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to on the previously stated
groimds.
The Chairman. For the reasons I stated, I order and direct you
to produce those documents.
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to do so on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, when and where were you bom ?
Mr. Saucier. I was born July 2, 1927, in the rural area of Winns-
boro, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside?
Mr. Saucier. 809 South Eightli Street, Monroe, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, would you give the committee the benefit
of your educational background?
2582 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully refuse to answer the question on the
grounds that I earnestly believe it might tend to incriminate me and
further violate my constitutional rights under article I, article IV,
article V, and the 14th amendment of the Constitution of the United
States.
Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee the benefit of your em-
ployment backgromid?
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully de(iline to answer on the grounds pre-
viously stated. *
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, were you a member of the Original
Knights of the Ku I^ux Klan at the time said organization was
under the leadership of Koyal V. Young?
Mr. Saucier. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Under the leadership of Murry H. Martin, were you
the exalted cyclops of the Ouachita Parish Unit?
Mr. Saucier. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know Willis J. Kidd to be the exalted cyclops
of the Swartz Unit?
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In November 1964 at an election of jthe Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, HoustoA P. Morris sought the position
of Imperial Wizard and was defeated.
Did you, Mr. Kidd, and others subsequently break with that organi-
zation as a result of the dissension that grew out of his defeat ?
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Saucier, I hand you a copy of an incorporation —
articles of incorporation of an organization designated as the Original
Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.
I invite your attention to the fact that the incorporators are listed
in this document as being Houston P. Morris, 112 Texas Avenue, Mon-
roe, Louisiana ; Jack Saucier, 809 South 8th Street, Monroe, Louisiana;
and George Bonner, 1511 Alabama Street, Monroe, Louisiana.
I hand you this document for you to review and put it to you as
a fact, and ask you to affirm or cteny the fact, that you are the Jack
Saucier named in this document.
Mr. Saucier. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "B. J. Saucier Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Appell. According to a letter obtained from tlie Office of Sec-
retary of State, the State of Louisiana, Houston P. INIorris resigned
from this organization, according to the letter dated April 28, 1965.
Will you tell the committee what caused Houston P. Morris to break
with the organization?
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to do so on tlie same grounds
previously stated.
(Document marked "B. J. Saucier Exhibit No. 2" follows:)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2583
B. J. Saucier Exhibit No. 2
/'bnywe^ LouLdLana
ApAll 28, l<^S
y
SecA£yLaAy of. State.
State, oji LoLuM-ana /^ "^
(jopLLaJ. LiuLixii/tg.
HcUon. f^uQj^, LouL^iafWL
DeaA Siyt:
JihLd La to in(x>/vn uuu that I kave leAJj^ea. fjwm the
boa/id of. Diji£ctoA/i of. ihA^OriiqinxjJ. Ku KJjxk ULcfi of AneAJ-Ca,
lac \ \ letieA. of njeyiignation. ka^ been ^uhmLtted and acce.pied
'~5i( ihe. ixtoAd of OLnecton^ of the O/vigUnaJ. Ku Kiux Kian of
/hiejvic, lac
■ 'lea/;e njsmove. mu none fjwm the chaAteA on file tuLih ^u/i
office.
l< ^
f"-^
Mr. Appell. Wasn't it again because of dissension within a Klan
group in which Mr. Morris wanted to take the bulk of the organization
into the United Klans of America?
Mr. Saucier. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
previously stated grounds.
Mr, Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell. I call Mr. Willis J. Kidd.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 17
2584 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. KiDD. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIS JAMES KIDD, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. AVill you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Kidd?
Mr. Kidd. Willis James Kidd.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here this morning in accordance
with a subpena served upon you on the 26tli day of October 1965 at
Music Road in Swartz, Louisiana ?
Mr. Kidd. I am.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel?
Mr. Kidd, Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. I am Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law^, 501
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Kidd ?
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the rea-
son that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights guaranteed to me in the amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kidd, you have been a member of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under Mr. Young, the Original Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan under Mr. Martin, the Original Ku Klux Klan
of America, Inc., as well as the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr, Appell. Mr, Chairman, in view of the witness" claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Kidd.
Mr. Kidd was born on June 11, 1932, in Ouachita Parish, Louisiana.
He is employed as assistant office manager at the Columbia Carbon
Company, Swartz, Louisiana. He served in the United States Navy
from 1952 to 1956. He has been a member of Ku Klux Klan organi-
zations since 1968, He recently held membership, in the office of
exalted cyclops, of the Swartz Taiit, Original Ku Klux Klan of Amer-
ica, Lie, and the United Klans of America, Inc.
In April 1965, he was the Imperial Dragon of the Original Ku Klux
Klan of America, Inc., which organization was incorporated by
Houston P. Morris and Jack Saucier, the previous witness.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that he possesses addi-
tional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this in-
quiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman, You have heard the sworn statement of the com-
mittee's investigator. You now have an opportunity to reply to any
portion of that statement, to affirm or challenge the accuracy of the
information, or to explain any part of tlie statement.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2585
In addition, yon may, if you desire, offer any other matters the com-
mittee might deem relevant to tliis inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity ?
Mr. KiDD. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Kidd, I must inform you that,
absent your rebuttal, or other factors that may come to the attention of
the committee, we will continue to rely upon the accuracy of the
investigation.
Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kidd, were you formally affiliated in the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan with Jack Saucier, the witness that
preceded you ?
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Thomas Frank Reagan ?
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that he is the great titan for the Northern Province of
Louisiana, United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Kidd, it is information coming to myself that
you and Houston Morris have gone over to the United Klans of
America under the leadership of Robert Shelton. Is that true?
Mr. Kidd. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I think I have confirmatoi-y evidence along that
line.
Thank you. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Jack Helm.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear, sir, the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Helm. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JACK M. HELM, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Will you state your name for the record, Mr. Helm?
Mr. Helm. Jack M'. Helm.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing this morning, Mr. Helm, in ac-
cordance w^ith a subpena served upon you ?
Mr. Helm. Yes, I am.
Mr. Appell. On October 26, 1965 ?
Mr. Helm. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. At 3141, DeSaix Street, New Orleans, Louisiana?
Mr. Helm. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. You are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Helm. Yes, I am, sir.
2586 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Koom
501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, under the conditions of the subpena and
an attachment thereto which was made a part of the subpena, you
were commanded to bring with you and to produce before the com-
mittee documents called for in paragraph 1 as follows :
All books, records, documents, corresiwndence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and aflBliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue Service
in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to
you as Grand Klaliff, State of Louisiana, and/or E.G. New Orleans Unit of the
Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.,
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I ask you to produce those documents, Mr. Helm.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in its subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by the committee under the subpena dated October 14,
1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject
under investigation; that the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry
within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of
the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted
January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
deliver the documents called for in paragraph 1.
The Chairman. Mr. Chalmers, I assume that previous stipulations
which we previously made to the effect that you acknowledge that the
subpena was served upon him in the capacity stated in the subpena
and that he is being asked to produce the documents in that capacity;
is that correct?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Helm, I order and direct you to
produce those documents.
Mr. ITeiju. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, pargraph 2 of the subpena calls upon you to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity
as present or past member or officer of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Gon.stitution and Laws" of said orga-
nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of
said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask y-ou to produce those documents.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2587
The Chair3ian. Is the same stipiihition agreed to, Mr. Chahners?
Mr. Chalmers. It is, Mr. Cliairinaii.
The Chairmax. I order and direct you to produce those documents.
Mr, Helm. I respectfully decline to deliver to the connnittee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
orounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 3 of the subpena, Mr. Helm, calls upon
you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, In-
ternal Revenue Service.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Helm. Houston, Texas.
Mr. Appell. What date, sir?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view" of the fact that the witness
has stated that he was born in Houston, Texas, I ask that he be directed
to give to the committee the date of his birth.
The Chairman. Pardon ?
Mr. Appell. In view of the fact, in response to my question as to
Vv'hen and where he was born, he responded "Houston, Texas," and
then invoked constitutional i^rivileges with respect to the date of his
birth, I ask that he be directed to give to the record the date of his
birth.
The Chairman. Of course, I could do that. It is introductory and
preliminary, and I can visualize absolutely no basis for the invocation
of any constitutional privileges, unless he wants to enumerate the rea-
son. I will order and direct him to answ^er.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the w^itness' claim of pri-
vilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions or to produce
documents demanded of him, I present to the committee the results
of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Helm.
Mr. Helm was born February 7, 1910, at Houston, Texas. He is
the operations manager for the'L. P. Smith Construction Company,
New Orleans, Louisiana. He is a member of the United Klans of
America, Eealm of Louisiana, which is known by the cover name of
Louisiana Rescue Service. He is the exalted cyclops of the New
Orleans, Louisiana, Unit of the United Klans of America.
In March of 1965 he attended a convention of the Realm of Loui-
siana, which at that time operated under the cover name of the Ber-
nice Sportsman Club. At this meeting lie was elected Grand Klaliff
or State vice president of the Realm of Louisiana.
2588 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
On May 15 and 16, 1965, Mr. Helm, along with Charles T. Miller
of New Orleans, and Lloyd Barnett, who gave an address of New
Orleans, D. B. Jackson of Baton Rouge — correction — of Bernice —
and Gill Harris, Jr., of Bernice; he attended a meeting of Grand
Dragons, Imperial officers, and other UKA — United Klans of Amer-
ica— leaders from many States at the Eola Hotel in Natchez, Mis-
sissippi.
This meeting was sponsored by the Mississippi Realm of the United
Klans of America known as the Mississippi Rescue Service.
l^Tiile a Klan official, ISIr. Helm, who speaks at numerous Klan
rallies, is always introduced as a leader of the Citizens Comicil of
Greater New Orleans. With such an introduction, he spoke at the
following rallies.
The Chairman. Do you mean Klan rallies ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Rallies of the United Klans of America in
most instances.
May 22, 1965, at a public rally near Tioga, Louisiana.
July 17, 1965, at Crossroads Community, Poplarville, Mississippi.
On October 24, 1965, at Philadelphia, Mississippi, where he shared
the platform with Sheriff Lawrence Rainey, Deputy Sheriff Cecil
Price, and Wayne Alton Roberts, all three of whom were arrested for
the slaying in Philadelphia, Mississippi, of the three civil rights
workers.
At that rally Helm stated, and I quote, "No congressional inves-
tigation will ever deteriorate this organization. We'll still be here
when they are dead and buried — and I hope it will be soon."
On October 27, 1965, at Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, Mr. Helm
spoke, where he stated that the Federal Government was corrupt with
homosexuals and that many Communists had high jobs.
On October 30, 1965, at Natchez, Mississippi, where he warned of a
Communist takeover in the L'nited States and urged his listeners to
not register their guns because — and I quote— "You've got to have
something in your house to keep those savages" — referring to Com-
munists— "from your door."
On June 5, 1965, Helm attended a meeting of the Americans for
the Preservation of the White Race at Natchez, Mississippi.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Helm pos-
sesses information which is both pertinent and relevant to this in-
quiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Helm, you have heard the sworn statement of
the committee's investigator, Mr. Appell, who is under oath just like
you are.
You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment, confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to ex-
plain any part of it. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any
other matter the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
The Chairman. I must inform you in that case that, absent your
rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the attention of the com-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2589
mittee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Now, bearing that in mind, have you anything to say?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, you do quite a bit of traveling for the L. P.
Smith Construction Company and represent to the Government sizable
deductions for traveling expenses for use of automobile and other
items necessary to travel. Do you include as legitimate business
deductions those expenses wdiich you incur in travel as an official of
the United Klans of America ?
]Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answ^er that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, we spoke of the meeting at Natchez, Mis-
sissippi. I hand you a copy of the registration card of the Eola Hotel.
I ask you if the card, which is one of the cards reproduced on this
sheet that I am handing you, miderscored, containing the name "Jack
M. Helm," is your signature there ?
]Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
(Document marked "Jack Helm Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Jack Helm Exhibit No. 1
EOLA HOTEL natcmkz. Mississippi
Registration Cam»
V*.
ItoUat
NAMUI
^^^^JtOL. ^t HzJ'
STftCKT
CITY AND STAT
RKPWCSENTING
T77
REMARK*
Ao>erteMi Hotel ll.r»..t« C«_ 3M-23J W, O»*»rio »l.. Chiogo 10 HL
'^^
#»
M«. IN ^AMTV
/
ccnB
2590 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. In addition to the persons from Louisiana whom I set
forth in my statement with respect to you, were the following indi-
viduals also present for that meeting :
Kuby Lee Brown; Nick Caulda; Robert E. Scoggin; W. S. Cox of
Spartanburg, South Carolina; and Mr. and Mrs. Joseph H. Bedford
of eJacksonviUe, Florida; Morris P. Perkins and Dajmy Hawkins of
Jackson, Mississippi; Robert M. Creel of Bessemer, Alabama — the
Grand Dragon of Alabama; Don Cothran, the Grand Dragon of
Florida; B. W. Waldrup of Jackson, Mississippi; Calvin F. Craig,
the Grand Dragon of Atlanta, Georgia ; Raymond R. Anderson, the
Grand Dragon of Tennessee ; Robert M. Shelton, the Imperial Wizard
of the United Klans of America; Clint Low of Jasper, Georgia.
Were those persons whose names I have read to you present at that
meeting ?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. I hand you the reproduction of an article which ap-
])eared in the Alexandria, Louisiana, Toion Talk of May 24, 19G5, a
story relating to a Klan rally.
It contains a picture of two men. In handing you this document. I
ask you if you know the other man at the microphone to be Dr. J. M.
Edwards of Jonesboro, Louisiana, a chiropractor who is the Grand
Dragon of the United Klans of America for the State of Ix)uisiana.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
(Document marked "Jack Helm Exhibit No. 2" appears on p. 2591.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, in March of 1963 were you president of an
organization known as Parents and Friends of Catholic Children,
Inc. ?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have introduced into the
record of Mr. Helm's testimony the registration card of the Eola
Hotel, the newspaper clipping from the Alexandria, Louisiana, Town
Talk^ and an article which appeared in the Times-Picayune of March
25, 1963, relating to Mr. Helm and the Parents and Friends of Catholic
Children, Inc.
The Chairman. Tliey will be introduced in the record at the points
indicated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Helm, the Times-Picayune story relating to the
Parents and Friends of Catholic Children, Inc., states that Archbishop
Cody, dealing with the organization I have mentioned, said that that
organization was "not a recoiruized Catholic organization." and in
response to an inquiry from the press in which you were asked about
Arclibishop Cody's statement, you are quoted in this paper as saying,
" 'Well, we have news for him. AVe don't recognize Archbishop
Cody.' "
Were you quoted correctly ?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2591
Jack Helm Exhibit No. 2
[Alexandria, La., lowtt Talk, May 24. 1965)
(Town Talk Staff Photo)
Dr. J. M. Edwards of Jonesboro, right, grand dragon of
Louisiana of the United Klans of America Inc., introduces
Jack Helm of New Orleans, approaching the microphone,
who is a leader of the Citizens Council of Greater New
I Orleans and was the principal speaker during a klan rally
I near Tioga Saturday night.
I 'Invocation' at Klan Rally Is Not
According to Grand Dragon's Hoyle
, A Klu Klux Klan rally went
I off as scheduled Saturday night
' near Tioga with one unexpected
performance.
Dr. J. M. Edwards, grand
dragon of the United Klans of
America Inc., realm of Louisi-
ana, called for a minister from
the audience to open the rally.
An unidentified man ap-
proached the microphone as the
members of the crowd began
to bow their heads.
"I don't see how you in the
name of Jesus Christ can con-
duct hatred for any man" he
said and walked from the plat-
form.
Dr. Edwards, a Jonesboro vet-
erinarian, gave the invocation
and said of the man "we pray
our richest blessing upon him;
may the hatred in him be re-
moved."
Jack Helm, leader of the Cit-
izens Council of Greater New
Orleans and principal speaker,
said "I'm excited after I saw^
this performance here tonight."
Helm spoke for an hour and
covered almost every subject
from the United Nations to
birth control to Selma and Bog- ,
alusa.
The crowd was estimated at
some 600 people; Helm said
5,000.
He promised 125,000 people at
a Baton Rouge rally June 4
when "Big John, that's McKeith-
en, had better go to Europe."'
After the Baton Rouge rally
the council is sponsoring a train
trip to Washington to protest
civil rights activities by the gov-
ernment. Helm said $60 would
buy a round trip ticket.
The program was concluded
with Dr. Edwards explaining
the meaning of a cross lighting
ceremony held with 15 robed
klansmen behind the platform.
Dr. Edwards, the grand drag-
on, is not the Dr. James M. Ed-
wards of Pineville.
2592
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
{Tirms-Pieayune article of March 25, 1963, marked "Jack Helm
Exhibit No. 3" follows:)
Jack Helm Exhibit No. 3
[New Orleans, La., Times-Picayune, March 25, 1963]
RMIAIffi
sxvx
PARBfTSGROUP
Snyt Catlkolic Church U
Tlaying Politior
SUte Itep^ John F. "Jack"
]Uu o( J«aBT«m PuMk Sunday
aceuaad ttia CathoUe Church ol
"pUying politics" in workiat
lor tntegratkn o( Nafroat Into
aU-«rhltc schools and aU^whit*
aalghhorhnods
"The Negro bkic vote controls
the eiectlqn of the PreiUent o(
tha United SUtaa," Rau dt-
elarad. "The Church, by co>
oparatlnf. can play politics to
g«t todaral aid-roayba." ha
)Uu addrasaed a
by tha Parants
ol Catholie
Bkm In ftud's rkmar Room.
Vm St Oauda av«..
•NOT AITACXDf Q* OnJBCH
"It hurts evaryooa o( us here
to dtsagre* wlttt our Catholic
clarty-" f^*! stated
not atUckin^ Holy, Mother
Church. We are attorkin* ttw
hierarchy of the Catholk Church
tn tha Archdkxaae of New Or-
leaiw," ha said.
He said An^^tishop John P
Oody was "one jnan who came
down here and did nothinc but
talk nnanr«s."
Referring to the archdioceset
new central fund. Helm said the
archbishop "has tsken the tan
out ci raising money by church
festivals. Utile penny parties
and thlnes Uke that."
ASKS Accomwo
Helm sa d the Catholic Church
h Violet. La.. haA^sed some
$30,000 through these means
but It all had to be turned over
to the archdlocesan fund. "No*
satisfied with that $30,000, the
srchblshop went kito the Altar
Society and took the few hundred
dollars they had."
The Parents and Friends of
Catholic Children Inc.. asked
the archbishop to account foe
the dispotitlon of funds turned
over to him by the churches of
the srphrtiocMe. According to
Helm the answer was: 'C^iery
is rejected."
••Cod>"8 letter of reply said:
This Is not a recognixed Cath
Jaelc M. Helm. preskScnt oflolic organization.-" Helm de-
Puanta and Frienda cf OathoHc
Children Inc.. stresaad that "Wa
•ra devout and practicing
Roman Catholics and we are
clared
"Well, we have news for
him." Helm added. "We dont
recognize Aichbishop Oody
Mr. Appell. Were you affiliated with any Klau organization at the
time you made that statement?
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon
(lie grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr ArPELL. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Helm, did you become iiii officer or president
of that Parents and Friends of Catholic Children, Inc., organization
by direction of anyone liigher than you in the Khui hierarchy .
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question biised upon
the grounds previously stated, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2593
The Chairman. You seem to have smiled when I asked that ques-
tion. Is there any reason for it ? Do you care to talk about it? I will
be fflad to hear Avhatever you have to say.
Mr. Helm. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Helm, if I understand your program cor-
rectly, I believe Mr. Appell said you stated in a rally that this com-
mittee was iiot going to be able to destroy your organization, that
your organization would continue to exist when we were dead and
buried and you hoped it would be soon. I further understand you
said in regard to the archbisliop that you intend to fire the arch-
bishop and bury the committee.
I don't ask for an answer to that, but I will say this: If this is your
attitude, there are forces in this counti-y that have for a long time
tried to destroy this committee and the vital function it fulfills for
the Congress and the American people, and I would predict if the
Ku Klux Klan joins hands with the Communist Party to destroy this
committee that you will be unsuccessful in that endeavor.
I note from what I am hearing and reading that such a joining of
hands in the vilification and attempted destruction of the functions of
this committee would seem to be the purpose of statements such as the
one quoted from this rally. I just want you to know that I suspect
this shall be unsuccessful.
This is not a question and there is no need to answer.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. I call Mr. Lloyd H. Barnett.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear, sir, tliat the testimony
you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Barnett. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF LLOYD H. BARNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, would you state your full name for the
record, please?
Mr. Barnett. Lloyd H. Barnett.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Barnett. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., Room 501, First Federal
Building, Raleigh, iSTorth Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, you are appearing here in connection
with the subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at 423 River
Oaks Drive, New Orleans, Louisiana ?
Mr. Barnett. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, under the conditions of the subpena and
an attachment thereto, which is made a part of the subpena, you are
called upon in paragra))h 1 to produce the following documents :
AU books, recorcl.s, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also
known as the United Klans of America. Inc.. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. and
affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue
2594 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Service in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available
to you as Grant Titan of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I ask you to produce those documents, sir.
Mr. Barnett. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so mi<;ht
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all rec-
ords as requested by this committee under the subpena dated October
14, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the in-
vestigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the considera-
tion of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January
1, 1965.
Mr. Appell. I ask for a direction, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman. Is our previous stipulation agreed to as to the sig-
nificance of this subpena as it applies to this witness?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I order and direct you to produce the documents.
Mr. Barnett. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, under paragraph 2 you are ordered to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity
as present or past Grand Titan and/or member of the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said
organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I ask you to produce those documents, sir,
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit-
tee the documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based
upon the grounds ])reviously stated.
Tlie Cn.MR:\tAN. On the basis of the stipulation previously made, I
order and direct you to produce them.
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfullv decline to deliver to the committee
the documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon
tlie irrounds previously stated.
]\f r. Appell. Mr. Barnett, paragraph 8 of your subpena calls for you
to produce :
Copies of TT.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return." for the calendar years lO.'S through 1064,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, Inter-
nal Revenue Service.
I ask for the production of those tax returns.
Mr. B.vrnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents demanded and ordered by tlie conunittee based upon the
grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2595
Mr. ArpELL. Mr. Barnett, I hand you a reproduction of an applica-
tion for citizenship in the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, and ask you if you have executed a similar application?
]\Ir. Barnett. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in vio-
lation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14
of the Constitution of the United States of America.
(Document previouslv marked "Richard Constantineau Exhibit
No. 3.'')
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, I hand you a series of oaths of allegiance,
obedience, secrecy, and fidelity of the Ku Klux Klan and ask you to
review them and state whether or not you have ever subscribed to the
oaths set forth in that document?
Mr. Barxett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny, that as a titan in the Realm of Louisiana that you have
jurisdiction of Klan organizational activities in Klaverns within
southern Louisiana ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Will you advise the committee of the number of Klav-
erns organized within your jurisdiction ?
Mr. Barnett\ Sir, 1 respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Will you advise the committee of the membership
of the Klaverns within your jurisdiction ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As the officer of the United Klans of America in charge
of south Louisiana, do you know Jim Roundtree ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Jimmy Mumphrey ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Ralph Houston ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Robert Jose])h Fuxan, F-u-x-a-n ?
Mr. Barnet7\ Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Jimmy Simon Mumphrey ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, do you know Saxon Farmer ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Following the meeting of the Klan officials at the Eola
Hotel in Natchez, Mississii)pi, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you played a role in a rally held at Cross-
2596 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
roads Community in Mississippi across the line from Bogalusa, Louisi-
ana?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you deliberately, with knowledge, lied to
the press when you advised them that there were 4,000 Klansmen in
the Bogalusa area ?
Mr. Barneitt. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. As a matter of fact, isn't it the practice of Klan
organizations in certain areas, for whatever influence they conceive
it might have, to balloon or exaggerate the number of their members ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answ^er that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Barnett, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny, that you do not have 4,000 Klansmen in the entire State
of Louisiana ?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the gromids previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny,
that as a matter of organizational procedure you balloon your strength
in order to intimidate people into thinking you are a larger and more
powerful organization than you are in fact?
Mr. Barnett. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the gi'ounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this
witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. I call Marvin Curtis Brister.
The Chairman. You solemnly swear the testimony you are about
to give wnll be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr, Brister. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MARVIN CURTIS BRISTER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Brister. Marvin Curtis Brister.
Mr, Appell. Are you appearing today in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on the 29th day of October 1965 at the Tioga
High School in Tioga, Louisiana ?
Mr. Brister. Yes, sir,
Mr. Appell, Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr, Brister. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "Will counsel please identify himself ?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney. Room 501, First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, under the conditions of a subpena served
on you, you were ordered by an attachment, which was made a part
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2597
of the subpena, to bring with you and to produce articles called for in
paragraph 1 as follows :
All book, records, documents, corresx>ondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business 'and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klant, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klirx Klan, and affiliated or-
ganizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue Service in
your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as
Grand Titan of Southern Louisiana of the Invisible Empire, United Klans,
Knights of the Ku Klax Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans
of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I request you to produce, in your representative capacity stated
therein, the documents called for by part 1 of the subpena.
The Chairman. It is stipulated that the significance of the call is
for the witness to produce the documents in the capacities stated in
this subpena?
Mr. Chalmers. May I inquire of Mr. Appell what was the date of
that subpena ?
Mr. Appell. The date of service was the 29th of October.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 29, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 29, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and that same would not aid the Congress in the con-
sideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry with-
in the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the
miles adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted
January 4, 1965.
The Chairman. Pursuant to the stipulation made, I order and di-
rect you to produce those documents in the capacities stated in the
suljpena.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Part 2 of the subpena calls for you to produce:
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as past or present Grand Titan and/or member of the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of
said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other
officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or con-
trol.
I request you to produce, in your representative capacity stated
therein, the documents called for by this part 2 of your subpena.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
The CiLMRMAN. And pursuant to the stipulation, I order and direct
you to produce the documents in those capacities.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
2598 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Part 3 of your subpena calls upon you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. rndividual Income Tax Return." for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, In-
ternal Revenue Service.
I request you to produce those documents.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, would you state for the record your edu-
cational background?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer miglit tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny, that you have an M.A. degree from Colorado State Col-
lege, Fort Collins, Colorado. Will you confirm or deny that fact ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny, that you hold the position of assistant principal of the
Tioga High School, Tioga, Louisiana.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny, that you are receiving disability compensation from the
United States Government occasioned by retirement from the Army
at tlie rank of major because you suffered from diabetes and that your
compensation is $237.19 a month ? I ask you to affirm or deny that fact.
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, I hand you a copy of an application for
Class B, C, or D license, a form issued by the Federal Communications
Commission, dated March 15, 1965, for a Class D license with 10 trans-
mitters. I would like to read in the record before handing it to you
and then would like you to verify the accuracy of what I am quoting.
The Chairman. ^^Hiat are you reading from?
Mr. Appell. This is a letter which is a part of the application. It is
signed by Marvin C. Brister. It reads :
Dear Sirs :
I was certainly unaware that there was to be a detail report as to where each
of the transceivers were to be placed.
I expect to place transceivers in the following places :
1. My home — my use, my wife and 2 daughters.
2. My i/o ton pick-up —
3. My Family Car—
4. 2 cars owned by me but driven by my daughters.
5. My sports car —
6. My boat, run about-outboard
All of these will be used by my family and my mother or father or some of
my close friends.
The above is in the near future or when I receive my permits. My future
plans ia for a small house boat, trailer that is use [sic] for hunting trips. A
portable would come in handed [sic] on certain types of outings.
I am sorry I have delayed this, by not giving exact placements.
It is signed "Marvin C. Brister."
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2599
In lianding you this application I ask you if this is the application
you filed and if the letter which I read is signed by you and whether
or not any of these citizens band transmitters were used by members of
the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1." See pp. 260Q-
2603.)
Mr. iLppELL. Mr. Brister, did Mr. Lloyd Barnett replace you as the
titan in charge of the United Klans of America organization in Kla-
vern activities in southern Louisiana?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you still a member of the United Klans of
America ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brister, prior to joining the United Klans of Amer-
ica were you a member of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
which was known by the cover name of Christian Constitutional
Crusaders ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answ^er that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny,
that you wrote checks payable to the Christian Constitutional Cru-
saders and were a member of that organization ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chair:man. Mr. Brister, it appears from what has been stated
that you have an unusually high education. I ask you what I have
asked of many others, if you would care to state in your own way and
with language portraying it in your own fashion, the objectives, pur-
poses, and programs of the Ku Klux Klan that impelled you to join
the Klan and to become a high official thereof ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. It has been proven in the record that another
teacher in a high school, in that case a principal — and I see you are
assistant principal in a high school in Louisiana — that in the other
case Klan activities and meetings were held in that school. Were any
Klan activities and meetings held in your school ?
Mr. Brister. I res]>ectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you made talks at Klan rallies or before Klan
groups ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to ansAver that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did you in any way try to indoctrinate in the ways
of the Klan any of the pupils in your school ?
Mr. Brister. I respectfully decline to answer tliat question based
upon the gi'ounds previously stated.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
(Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1, introduced above follows:)
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 18
2600
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1
rCC FORM SOS
flCVSEO KAT MU
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
TEOERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHiriGION. D.C lOU*
_ FDSit AFPPOVtD
I i .BUO&CT BURCAU NO. U-fiUXlO
tr
'.'^
DO SOT WRITE IN THIS BUfCh'
APPLICATION FOR CLASS B. C. OR O STATION LICENSE IN THE \\??\
CITIZENS RADIO SERVICE .. ,.
- 3.' Application (or Clua A sUtion licensix mutt b«-(il«l 9n FCC X^RM 400.
Compl<*te on typewriter or print clyrly-l - „
Ure application ia signed *hd dated. Moit application to Federal Com-
icationa Commission. Gettysburg. Pa., 17326.
FEE: $3.00
Ap
: " 440S30 nAiUB(=5
, , ,i.\:iJt.v,u
; Ci B.,
, Enclase appropriate tee with application.
Make i ' '
.if required. DO NOT SUBMIT
. CASH. Make chi'clt or monry nrder payable to Federal Communirationa
., . . ;Coinmosi<Ti>iO <S4-e Part 19, Volume VI ol FCC rulea to determine whether
'•'J .-'a'fi.'c i^r^i^i^d with this application )
NAME OF APPLICANT
BUSINESS MAKE tOR UST NAME. IF AN INOIVtOuAL)
BRISTER
FIRST NAME (IF AN INCHVIOUAU
MARVIN
MIDDLE INITIAL
c
IF AN INDIVIDUAL OPERATING UNDER A TRADE NAME, GIVE INDIVIDUAL
NAME. OR IF PARTNERSHIP. LIST NAMES OF PARTNERS {Do not t«p*at
any name uaed in iUm J )
LAST NAMES
FIRST NAMES
MAILING ADDRESS
NUMOCR AND STREET
3002 Monroe Hwy.
Pineville
*Ea.
71360
COUNTY QREOUIVALEMT SUBDIVISION
Rap teles
CLASSIFICATION OF APPLICANT (St* iMlruclioni)
[~| INDIVIDUAL rn ASSOCIATION F"! ]
[ I PARTNERSHIP V~\ CORPORATION PH OTHER (Spcci/y):
CLASS OF STATION (Chuk only <nu)
D'
D"
Q'
IS THIS APPLICATION TO MODIFY OR RENEW AN EXISTING STATION LICENSE?
( I Vt» {Citt eaU ngn): [^ NO
D'
fi'
■ ■ K REQUESTED STATION
10
DOES EACH TRANSMITTER TO BE OPERATED APPEAR ON THE COMMIS-
SION S -RADIO EQUIPMENT LIST, PART C OR. IF FOR CLASS C OR
CLASS 0 STATIONS. IS IT CRYSTAL-CONTROLLED? (// no, aWuk
detailed deaetiplion: ace wubpart C a/ Part 19)
A WILL APPLICANT OWN ALL THE BADIO EQUIPMENT? (1/ no. OntwtT
B and C bttov)
NAME OF OWNER
IS THE APPLICANT A PARTY TO A WRIITEN LEASE OR OTHER AGREEMENT UNDER
WHICH THE OWNERSHIP OR CONTROL WILL bE EXERCISED IN THE SAME MAN-
NER AS IF THE EQUIPMENT WERE OWNED BY THE APPUCANTl
HAS APPLICANT READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE PROVISIONS OF PART T9
SUBPART D DEALING WITH PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHICH
THIS CLASS OF STATK>N MAY BE USED?
WILL THE STATION BE OPERATED BY ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE
APPLICANT MEMBERS OF HIS IMMEDIATE f AMIL* OR HIS EMPLOYEES'
(// J/C9. (Ulaeh a tcparaU iheet tislmg tht namei and rtlaltantkip ojall
etuh pertone and git a detailed reaeon for t\eir operation of your
elaiton)
IS APPLICANT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY ALIEN OR ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT? (// ye*, explain fuliy)
WITHIN 10 YEARS PREVIOUS TO THE DATE OF THIS APPLICATION HAS
THE APPLICANT OR ANY PARTY TO THIS APPLICATION BEEN CONVICTED
'N A FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL COURT OF ANY CRIME FOR WHICH THE
PENALTY IMPOSED WAS A FINE OF JiOO OR MORE. OR AN IMPRISONMENT
OF G MONTHS OR MORE? iStt imlrvclion: 1/ yt*. aUaeh a aeparaU
sheet giving detaiU of tack tuck eonwielion)
tF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP. ARE YOU OR ANY
PARTNER LESS THAN II YEARS OF AGE (LESS THAN 1J YEARS OF AGE IF
FOR CLASS C STATION LICENSE}?
X
IF THE PRINCIPAL LOCATION WHERE THE STATION WILL BE
USED IS DIFFERENT FROM THE MAILING ADDRESS (ITEM 3>,
GIVE THAT LOCATION. {DO NOT GIVE FOST OFFICE BOX OR
RFD NO.)
NUMBER AND STREET
Same
DO NOT
SCREENING
WUfTS IN ■
aV/ a N
a^ D N
SIGN AND DATE THE APPLICATION ON REVERSE SIDE
ON I
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2601
Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
19 IF APPLICANT IS A NONGOVERNMENTAL
CORPORATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
m
15 CORPORATION ORGANIZED UNOtR LAWS OF ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENTt
IS ANY OFFICER OR OIRtCTOR OF THE CORPORATION AN ALIEN*
IS MORE THAN ONE-FIFTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK EITHER OWNED OF
RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES,
OR BY* FOREIGN GOVERNMENTOfl REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF OR BY
ANY CORPORATION ORGANIZED UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN
COUNTRYT
IS APPLICANT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY OTHER
CORPORATION? (// yet, answer iUma E through K brlow)
GIVE NAME AND ADDRESS OF CONTROLLING CORPORATION
IS MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE CAPITAL STOC K OF CONTROLLING
CORPORATION EITHER OWNED OF RECORD OR MAY IT BE VOTED BY
ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, OR Sy A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
OR REfPESENTATUE THEREOF, OR DY ANY CORPORATION ORGANIIED
UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY? {]/ i/et. gite detatU)
IS ANY OFFICER OR MORE THAN ONE-FOURTH OF THE DIRECTORS OF
THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION AN ALIEN? (7/ yet, antwer xlemt
I and J below)
TOTAL NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN CONTROLLING CORPORATION
LIST ALLOFFICERS AND DIRECTORS WHO ARE ALIENS IN CONTROLLING
CORPORATION AND GIVE BRIEF BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENT FOR EACH
ALIEN
-/-
NATIONALITY
"'n^T^-L'-
OFFICE HELD
IS THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION IN TuRN CONTROLLED
BY OTHER COMPiNiEST [If yrt, atiaeh irtformation for taeh
of Ihetr controllino eompaniea eoMrinff Iht in/ormalion re-
qvdtUd in if^nu B through J, abote)
a-
30 IF APPLICANT IS AN UNINCORPORATED
ASSOCIATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
IS ANY OFFICER OR DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION AN ALIEN?
ARE MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIA-
TION ALIENS OR REPRESENTATIVES OF ALIENS, FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
OR REPRESENTATIVES THEREOF, OR CORPORATIONS ORGANIZED UNDER
THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY'
IS THE ASSOCIATION DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY
OTHER ORGANIZATION? (If yet. g\9t detailed eiplanattoni
(rw^
USE THIS SPACE FOR ANY AOOITtONAL INFORMATION OR REMARKS . .
[CkUi^^^-s^
WILLFUL FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS FORM ARE PUN-
ISHABLE BY FINE AND IMPRISONMENT. U.S. CODE, TITLE 18.
SECTION 1001.
ALL THE STATEMENTS MADE IN THE APPLICATION AND ATTACHED EXHIBITS ARC CONSIDCRED MATERIAL RCPRCSENTATIONS. AND ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE
A MATERIAL PART HEREOF AND ARE INCORPORATED HEREIN AS IF SET OUT IN FULL IN THE APPLICATION.
I CERTIFY THAT:
The applicant has (or has ordered from the Government Printing Office) a current copy of Part 19 of the Commission's rules governing
the Citizens Radio Service,
The applicant waives any claim to the use of any particular frequency or of the ether as agamst the regulatory powef of the United
States because of the previous use of the same, whether by license or otherwise ;
The applicant accepts full responsibility for the operation of. and will retain control of any citizens radio station licensed to him pursuant
to this application ,
The station will be operated in full accordance with the applicable law and the current rules of the Federal CorTimunications Commission ;
The said station will not be used for any purpose contrary to Federal. State or local law ,
The applicant wilt have unlimited access to the radio equipment and effective measures will be taken to prevent its use by unauthorized
persons ; and
The statements in this application are true, complete, and correct to the best of my
DO
NOT
OPERATE
UNTIL
vou
HAVE
VOUH
OWN
LICENSE.
use
OF
ANY
CALL
SIGN
NOT
VOUR
OWN
S PROHIBITED.
ue. complete, and correct to the best of my kAojQfledgepfid belief and are made m good faith.
{Check appropriate box bvlow): \
E INDIVIDUAL j 1 MEMBER OF [ 1 OFFICER Or APPLICANT | 1
APPLICANT APPLICANT CORPORATION OR
PARTNERSHIP
ASSOCIATION
I OFFICIAL OF
GOVERNMENTAL
INTITV
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE l9e)-O-«94-fl0l
Repnnled by E. F. Johnson Company
2602 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S.
Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
iHiiHii'i ■■■ ;
-, •. 7.',:io
Supplement CO Application Return Form
?age 3-B
In addition to providing the information requested
on the attached sheet, please answer the following questions
In the Remarks space on Che reverse side o£ the application
Form 505.
1, Will station be operated In connection with bvalnass
activities? \-v€> •
If "Yes", state:
Owner of business
Nature of business activity
Where do you propose Co Install the transmitters
shown in Item 8, and for what purposes and by whom
will they be used?
2. Will station be operated In connection with personal
activlces? '^jJt^-t — j
If "Yes", state;
Nature ot personal activity C^O^/^^-^'^-^V '''^''^'^j. V
Where do you propose to Install tne transAitters / '
shown in Itea 8 , and for what purposes and by whom
will they be used? ^ ~-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2603
Marvin Brister Exhibit No. 1 —Continued
-flu! Mh^'^-'^ ^ fp& (U^ I
X Ml Wi^ 7^ (p^'/-^ "
Jj ^^^x.:j^ >i f--f^ v^i h^^^ pfcu^ -^ 7^^
[^ ^-^ c^>c^^ .^^^^ f^^
2604 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Tommy Frank Reagan.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly STvear the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Reagan. I do.
TESTIMONY OF TOMMY FRANK REAGAN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Reagan. Tommy Frank Reagan.
Mr. Appell. R-e-a-g-a-n?
Mr. Reagan. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. You are appearing before the committee today in re-
sponse to a subpena served upon you on the 26th day of October 1965
at 319 Hickory Street, West Monroe, Louisiana?
Mr, Reagan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Reagan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will comisel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Reagan, the subpena served upon you and the at-
tachment thereto, which was made a part of that subpena, called upon
you to produce certain documents set forth in paragraph 1 as follows :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and
affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue
Service in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as Great Titan of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.. also known as the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I request you to produce, in your representative capacity stated
therein, the documents called for by part 1 of your subpena.
Mr. Re^vgan. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena
dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do
so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
(o me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee in a subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the consider-
ation of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted
January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction for the production
of the documents called for in paragraph 1 of the subpena.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2605
The Chairman. I assume our previous stipulation stands as to the
significance of this subpena as it applies to this witness?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes.
The Chah^man. Pursuant to the stipulation made, I order and di-
rect you to produce those documents in the capacities stated in the
subpena.
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Reagan, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls for
you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
present or past member or Great Titan of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said orga-
nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of
said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
Mr. Reagan. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee based upon the
grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Reagan, when were you bom ?
Mr. Reagan, I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. According to the memorandum before me, it ap-
pears you ran for the highest office of your organization in the State
of Louisiana and for that reason, since you appear to be quite young,
I think the question is completely pertinent and I order and direct you
to answer that question.
Mr. Raegan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Reagan, are you a member at the present time of
any Klan organization in the United States ?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I notice in your lapel, Mr. Reagan, you have the Klan
pm. I ask you if that is worn by a person who is not a member of the
Ku Klux Klan?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. You are proud to wear it, but not to state it.
Mr. Reagan. Sir
Mr. Chalmers. Wait a minute. That was just an observation.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed privilege
and his refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the re-
sults of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Reagan.
Mr. Reagan was born on July 18, 1939, at West Monroe, T^uisiana.
He served in the Air Force from 9-13-56 to 10-1-58, and in the Reserve
to 12 September 1962. His militaiy specialty was that of a supply
2606 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
helper, and he was honorably discharged, a medical discharge because
of a bad back.
Mr. Reagan has a high school education and is currently employed
by the Horton Sewing Machine Company on 1200 Cypress Street, West
Monroe.
Mr. Reagan has been a member of the United Klans of America, and
in August of 1964 he was great titan covering the jurisdiction of north-
ern Louisiana. In September 1964, he was a delegate to the Imperial
Klonvokation held at the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham,
Alabama.
On November 7, 1964, his name appears on the signature card of an
account opened in the name of the Committee of United Clans of
America — and this is spelled with a "C" and not a "K" — at the Cen-
tral Savings Bank & Trust Company in Monroe, Louisiana, and the
cosigner of the account, in addition to Mr. Reagan, is Leon Smudrick,
the former exalted cyclops of a Klavern of the United Klans of
America known as the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club.
(Document marked "Tommy Reagan Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Tommy Reagan Exhibit No. 1
RMJ
AUTHORIZED SIGNATURE OF
Lecii Sitmdi-ick AND Tonmy Reagan
N)
FOR THE TRANSACTION OF BUSINESS WITH
Central Savings bank a Trust Co. monroe, Louisiana
Ittm» received for depom or collection are accepted on the following tcrmi and condnioni. This hank acti only
•■ depositor'! collecting agent and aiaumei no responsibility beyond its eierciae of due care. All items are credited
<uh)ect to final payment and to receipt of proceeds of final payment m cash or solvent credits by this hank at its own
nffice. This bank may forward items to correspondents and shall not be liable fptjJe'**1^^0rf^ig<nce of correspondent*
Te WWlTreTt for its c
•elected with due care nor for losses m transit, and each cor respondent *yBt%ARic Vjl^^rTi ifii for its own negligence.
Items and their proceeds may he handled by any Federal Reserve bank in aclon
by this bank of any correspondent, in accordance with ■"y^o"ii'^Ql''^lt\t,,-— -, wt— — ^ y i
Federal Reserve b:>nk may use or permit another bank to |jCX\ll Bvtivlnv vnNr iTwTu] jnVm I'^'^P bink miv charge
eral Reserve bank in acloTvAnce with apQiicaUe f^^fffjl^
with *"ygfo'"ff'^fl|^»i|\*fW-S"'WSn(f |bctW*'mVt
rruerai rvcicrve D:>nK may use or permit anoiner bank to lj(X\ll Bvt vlh<|* vnKr IIwTuI jIVm /^'V< \>^t\% miv criargc
hack, at iny time prior to midnight on its business day neit lollowing g|a||hAgif ^n^RtvA^i/ern' dravin on tnii hank
which \% ascertiined to be drawn againat Insufficient fundi or other wiM^nWgood -m£ ^^J^^^ \^ jki^v^ received after
this bank's regular afternoon closing hour shall be deemed rece*«gL8}i»%rfiv4>usincs« .t
Thia bank reserves ihc right to post all deposits, InclufUul .JC|Mrrta/jff c%9k^x\^ "y
midnight of Its neit businesa day after tTicir receipt at this ^tfi« durTf
icntcJ item rcsulfi^yfl
for damages fnr nonpaymcrtt nf any^'fTrrtcntcJ item rcsubJ^PMlV^PVRrcise nl this right
sinMAT.i.,>.^_x^;.^^y y^y^^^^.^-..^ Tonaiy Reagan
■)t it Ht « -K- if -.-- -ii- -u- ■);• '> r<- ■«• -;:■ ■> -;t ■«■»<:«■» 4t- *■»■»* ^^ •«■
^ SIGNATURE.
<
Z
O
p n Pr^v 0'^^ MnnT'fv- Ta Co.oraittee of United Clans of
ADHRFss V*^' "O^ ^P-l-j monroe^ i.a. business irf-r^c-TK
DATE Noveaber 7« 1964 introduced by Leon Smudrick
£] CHECKING ACCOUNT | | SAVINGS ACCOUNT
0 25 019 8
Mr. Appell. I might point out, Mr. Chairman, in that connection,
that the Monroe Hunting and Fishing Club has been a Klavern of the
Original Knights under Mr. Young, of the Original Knights under
Mr. Martin, and now under the United Klans of America.
On December 6, 1964, following a public rally at the West Monroe
fairgrounds, Mr. Reagan, in response to an inquiry about tlie absence
of Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton, reported that Shelton was in
Mississippi contacting United Klans of America Klaverns about rais-
ing money to defend the individuals arrested by the FBI in the murder
of the civil rights workers.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2607
In Jaiuiaiy of 1065, Mr. Eeagan attended meetings of imperial and
other officers of the United Khms of America at Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
In March of 1965, Mr. Reagan was a defeated candidate
The Chairman. '65 or '64 ?
]Mr. Appell. '65, sir — for the office of Grand Dragon of the Realm
of Louisiana, which is operated under the cover name of the Louisiana
Rescue Service.
In March and April 1965, Reagan took judo lessons with other Klans-
men in the We^t Monroe, Louisiana, area.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Reagan posses-
ses additional information \vhich is pertinent and relevant to this in-
quiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman. I might say that I completely agree. If he cares
to, he could shed a lot of light, provide a lot of additional facts within
his knowledge.
In any case, Mr. Reagan, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator, Mr. Appell, who is under oath just like you
are. We want the truth and nothing but the truth. I now give you
the opportunity to reply to any portions of that statement, to con-
firm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to explain any
part of it. In addition, you may — and I urge you to — offer any other
matter which the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do
you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, I must tell you, Mr. Reagan, absent
your rebuttal, or facts that may come to the attention of the commit-
tee, the committee will rely upon the accuracy of the investigation.
Bearing this in mind, do you have anything to say ?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The CHAiR:MA]sr. Having attended a school which apparently
teaches everything but what appears in the literature of the Klan or-
ganization, do you know anything about the actions of the wrecking
crews which are part of the activities of the Klan ?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. That is all.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Reagan, prior, to the holding of the Imperial
Klonvokation at the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel, that hotel distributed
to the United Klans of America, who represented itself to the hotel
as the Alabama Rescue Service, a printed card by which delegates to
the convention, klonvokation, coulcl request reservations. I show you
a reproduction of a card stating, "I will be attending the convention of
the Alal)ama Rescue Service,'' when the party will arrive, when the
party plans to depart, and requesting a reservation for four double
bedrooms. It is signed "Tommy F. Reagan & Party, 600 No. Tth St.,
^V. Monroe, La." I ask you if you mailed the original of that card
to the hotel.
( Document handed to witness. )
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Tommy Reagan Exhibit No. 2" follows:)
2608 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Tommy Reagan Exhibit No. 2
MAKE YOUR HOTEL RESERVATIONS NOW!
I will be attending the convention of the . . .
(name of group or association)
I will arrive (riny) . 'i t^'y. [iAn\p\ ^j^/^^^ (h<-itir)-3 y^ m
I will depart (day)-^ v ^ (date) ^^y^'T'C (hour) "y^^. m.
Reserve for me the following accommodotions . . .
V Q^double bedroorrvy
n suite <^'^f S^o
(check one) □ single
Q twin bedroom
YOUR MAMF -^^^^y y^. /^e=>. .^ /Tl ^ »• w-^^-^^Tv
ADDRESS t^ fi> T^a. ^ '^ -^ ?~- .
CITY 6t^ y^gyyyP^fi^ ^ ^
Mr. Appell. Will you identify to the committee the other members
of your party ?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that as a delegate to that convention or klonvokation you
participated in the election of the Imperial Wizard, Robert Shelton ;
the Imperial Klokard, Robert Collins; the Imperial Kludd, the
Reverend Dorsett; the Imperial Kladd, Robert Hudgins; the Imperial
Klarogo, Walter Brown; and the Imperial Klexter, Robert Konnaji.
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, may I have 1 minute ?
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess for a minute?
(Brief recess.)
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Reagan, does the Monroe, Louisiana, area of the
United Klans of America have a woman's auxiliary which covers its
true function by going under the name of the Green Thumb Club?
Mr. Reagan. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further question to ask the
witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excussed.
The committee will stand in recess until next Tuesday at 10 a.m.
(AVliereupon, at 12:30 p.m., Friday, January 7, 196(5, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, January 11, 1966.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLIX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
TUESDAY, JANUARY 11, 1966
UxiTED States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee ox Un-American Activities,
Washington. D.C.
PUBLIC hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to recess, at 10:10 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon
House Office Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin E. Willis
(chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of
Georgia ; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio ; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. AIcNamara, director; William
Hitz, general comisel ; and Donald T. Appell, chief investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Mr. Appell, call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. John H.
(ripson.
Mr. Gipson, would you come up here and take the stand, please?
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give in this session
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. GiPSON. I do.
The Cil\irman. Have a seat.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN HUGH GIPSON
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, if you will talk into the microphone I
think that the committee will be able to hear you. The acoustics
here are rather bad.
Would you state your full name for the record?
Mr. Gipson. John Hugh Gipson.
Mr. Appell. And that is spelled G-i-p-s-o-n?
Mr. Gipson. Right.
2609
2610 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Where do yon presently reside, sir?
Mr. GiPSON. Slidell, Louisiana.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. GiPSON. St. Tammany Parish.
Mr. Appell. And the month ?
Mr. GiPSON. March 24, 1936.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, you are not appearing before the com-
mittee this morning witli counsel. Do you desire counsel ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. You desire an attorney to accompany you
The Chairman. Do you desire to have a lawyer?
Mr. Appell. — here this morning ?
Mr. Gipson. Sir?
Mr. Appell. I say, you do not have an attorney with you ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Do you want an attorney ?
Mr. Gipson. No, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Gipson, you do not have a lawyer. You said
you don't want one.
I want you to know tliat, if you want to, you may invoke the fifth
amendment. You don't have to, but if you want to I want you to
know that we respect your rights.
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr, Appell. Mr, Gipson, how far did you go in school ?
Mr. Gipson. I quit school in the seventh grade.
Mr. Appell. 0^'er the recent years what has been your principal
occupation ?
Mr. Gipson. Most of my life I logged, working in the woods.
The Chairman. Logging?
Mr. Gipson. Logging,
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, have you ever been a member of any
Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr, Gipson, Yes, sir,
Mr, Appell. Wlien did you join a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr, Gipson, It was in 1963.
Mr, Appell, And was this the Orig-inal Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan?
Mr, Gipson, Yes, sir.
Mr, Appell. And was tliis the organization that was headed state-
Mnde by J. D, Swenson and Royal V. Young?
Mr, Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Were you acquainted with dissension which grew up
within the Original Knights over finances involving Mr. Swenson
and/or Mr. Young?
Mr. Gipson. I know they had some kind of money squabble, but I
don't know too much about it. I was just becoming a member then
and I did know they had some squabble over the money.
Mr, Appell. And you do know that after this money squabble Mr,
Young and Mr, Swenson were no longer the leaders of the
organization ?
Mr. Gipson. Right,
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2611
Mr. Appell. In 1963 wlien you joined the Original Knights of the
Ku Khix Klan, ^vho recruited you into the organization?
Mr. Gipsox. Herbert (jornor.
Mr. Appell. G-o-r-n-o-r?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes.
Mr. Appell. And to what Klavern of the Original Knights were
you assigned after you became a member?
Mr. GiPSOx. To the Pearl River.
Mr. Appell. Was this Klavern also known as the Pearl River
Hunting and Fishing Club ?
Mr. GiPSON. It was.
Mr. Appell.. The first meeting that you attended was held where?
Mr. GiPSOx. By Gary Crawford's house; in the house, in fact.
Mr. Appell. In the house of Cary Crawford?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And he was a member of the Pearl River unit?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Why did you join the Klan? What interested you in
the Klan's program wdiich caused you to join ?
Mr. GiPSON. Well, at the time I thought it was a pretty good thing
the way they explained it to me. It did sound good, but the longer I
stayed in and the further I went, I seen that they didn't live up to the
oath that they took, because when I went in it was supposed to be no
violence. Their fighting was going to be with boycotts and ballots
and with economic pressure.
Mr. Appell. At the time you joined, what was the klectokon, or
recruitment fee, which you had to pay to get into the Klan ?
Mr. GiPSON. Ten dollars initiation fee; ten dollars for uniform.
Mr. Appell. This is the robe ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And what were the dues paid by the members within
their respective Klaverns?
Mr. GiPSON. Four and a half a quarter. A quarter was 3 months,
Mr. Appell. At the time you joined the unit, who was the exalted
Cyclops, or the leader of the Klavern ?
Mr. GiPSON. Mr. Rowley.
Mr. Appell. Is this Mr. Ewell R-o-w-l-e-y ?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. What did you know his occupation or profession to be?
Mr. GiPSON. He w^as principal at the school.
Mr. Appell. This is the Sixth Ward Junior High School, also
known as the Pearl River ?
Mr. GiPSON. At the time I went in. he was principal at Pearl River
School, but then he got a transfer to Sixth Ward High School.
Mr. Appell. How- long did Mr. Rowley continue to be the exalted
Cyclops?
Mr. GiPSON. As well as I remember somewhere around 7 to 8 months.
Mr. Appell. Who replaced Mr. Rowley as the exalted cyclops of
the unit?
Mr. GiPSON. Beg pardon ?
Mr. Appell. Who was the next exalted cyclops after Mr. Rowley ?
Mr. GrpsoN. Nelson Ainsworth.
2612 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. What business is Mr. Ainsworth in in the Pearl Kiver
area?
Mr. GiPSON. He owns the dump trucks, hauling sand and gravel.
Mr. Appell. Who was the secretary of the Klavem, the man to
whom dues were paid and the man who kept notes and records of
the meeting?
Mr. GiPSON. Howard Swenson.
Mr, Appell. And is Howard Swenson employed by a tobacco
company as a route salesman working out of Bogalusa?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Wlio succeeded Nelson Ainsworth as the exalted Cy-
clops of your unit ?
Mr. GiPSON. James L. Leslie.
The Chairman. Will you spell that ?
Mr. Appell. L-e-s-1-i-e.
Is he known in the community by the nickname of Preacher Leslie ?
Mr. GrpsoN. Yes, sir, he is.
Mr. Appell. Is he currently engaged in the profession of a min-
ister, or does he have some other occupation ?
Mr. GiPSON. He is a mechanic.
Mr. Appell. He is a mechanic now ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Do you know from what origin he gets the nickname
of Preacher?
Mr. GiPSON. He was supposed to have been an ordained preacher
at one time.
Mr. Appell. Who was the secretary of the Klavern under James
Leslie?
Mr. GiPSON. Clayton Hickey,
Mr. Appell. C-1-a-y-t-o-n H-i-c-k-e-y?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. And what does Mr, Hickey do?
Mr. GiPSON. He is an iron worker.
Mr. Appell, Is he presently under some kind of suspension from
the Times-Picayune^ where he had been employed as a typesetter ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, he is.
Mr, Appell, Mr, Gipson, where did this Klavern at the time Mr.
Leslie was the exalted cyclops hold some of its meetings?
Mr, GiPSON, Al Bardin's Pine View,
Mr. Appell. And he owns and operates Pine View Salvage Com-
pany?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, within the organizational structure of the
Original Knights there is provision made within the Klavern and
within the realm level of a body of men known as the wrecking crew?
Mr, GiPSON, Yes, sir,
Mr, Appell. Are you familiar with the activities of the wrecking
crew?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Were you ever a member of a wrecking crew ?
Mr. GiPSON, Yes, sir,
Mr. Appell. Prior to becoming a meml^er of the wrecking crew
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2613
did you ever, in consultation with other Klansmen, cany out an act
against anyone?
Mr. Gipsox. Yes, sir; one time.
Mr. Appell. Would you tell the committee in your own words w^hat
this act was and what led up to it ?
Mr. GiPSON. Well, they had a boy in our community and he was,
according to Oscar Anderson, chief KBI.
Mr. Appell. Oscar Anderson was the chief of the KBI?
Mr. Gipsox. Yes, sir. He said the boy drinks and didn't take care
of his family, late out at night, and he needed to be straightened out
with a belt.
Mr. Appell. Did it come about that the opinion of Mr. Anderson,
who was the KBI — Klan Bureau of Investigation — man, and a group
of Klansmen carried out Mr. Anderson's belief that this man should
be handled and taken care of with a belt ?
Mr. GiPSOx. Yes, sir, they did.
Mr. Appeli.. "\Y1io was this man that was going to be whipped with
with a belt?
Mr. GiPSOx. Clarence O'Berry.
Mr. Appell. O-'-B-e-r-r-y?
Mr. GiPSOx. Right.
The Chairmax. Is that a wdiite boy or a Negro boy ?
Mr. GiPSOx. He was a. white boy.
Mr. Appell. With respect to the planning and the participants in-
volved in this act, would you, in your own words, tell the committee
just what transpired? I first would like to ask you approximately
when this planning and the actual beating were carried out.
Mr. GiPSOX. The night that he got whipped we had a regular Klan
meeting. Oscar Anderson told us that after the meeting he wanted to
talk to us. After the meeting he come out, and everybody there were
the ones who went.
The Chairmax. AVlio were they?
Mr. GiPSOx. Myself, John Gipson, L. M. Raynor, Harold Brake-
field, Herbert Gomor.
The Chatrmax. Could you remember about w^hen that was, what
month and what year approximately ?
Mr. Appell. Is that approximately July of 1964?
Mr. GiPsox'. It is in July sometime.
TheCnAiRMAX. 1964?
Mr. Gipsox. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Continue.
Mr. GiPS0x\ He said he thought that night would be a good night
to get him, but he thought he was laying out in one of them barrooms
down there that night. He told us to follow him down to this bar-
room. We went down and we parked on the side road. He made a
loop in front of the barroom and said he seen the boy sitting at the
bar, and he was watching the boy. In some kind of way the boy
come out and caught a ride.
He said "He must be on his way home.*' He told us to follow him.
We went up Highway 11, turned off 11 up 41, and he went up the
road and passed the boy's road Avhich goes to his house and he was
going to watch for the sheriff.
2614 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
We turned arouiid then, and he come back. Sure enough the boy
was about a quarter of a mile from his house. "We caught him, drug
him off in the woods, Harold Brakefield, Gornor, Oscar Anderson, and
L. M. Raynor. They pulled his pants down, and I hit him two or three
licks, and Eliot Rand took the belt and he really whipped him. He
was whipping him so hard I reached and grabbed his wrist one time
and shoved him back.
When we got through we just left him there.
The Chairman. On the ground ?
Mr. GiPSON. On the ground.
Mr. Appell. Was O'Berry pretty well welted ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, he was in a pretty bad way.
Mr. Appell. Was there any discussion among the }>eople of getting
him medical attention ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir, there wasn't.
Mr. Appell. He was left there without anyone caring how he was
going to get home or whether he was going to get any kind of medical
attention ?
Mr. GiPSON. That's right.
Mr. Appell. Was he told by the Klansman why he was being
whipped ?
Mr. GiPSON. I understood that he had had some warning before
that, but I didn't know nothing about that.
Mr. Appell. But on the night that lie was whipped he wasn't
told why ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir ; nobody talked.
Mr. Appell. Following this act against Clarence O'Berry, were you
formally inducted into a wrecking crew ?
Mr. GiPSON. I wasn't at the time O'Berry got whipped, but after
that they got them a wrecking crew up and I was sworn in.
Mr. Appell. Would you describe to the committee the procedures
that you went through in order to be inducted into the wrecking crew ?
Mr. GiPSON. This guy, Oscar Anderson, told me to come down by
his station. He was running a station at that time. He had some
men he wanted me to talk with. Whenever I got down there they
had two fellows that I didn't know, and never did know. They were
supposed to be from northeast Louisiana. They told that tliere had
to be something set up to stop all tliese smart niggers and things, and
that laws was made for something, but sometimes they had tO' be
broken and there had to be some good men to do it. Then they swore
in a few of us that night, and we took a different oath than they have
in the regular Klavern.
Mr. Appell. Let me interrupt you there. In the discussion of tak-
ing care of people, people that you describe, to what extremes was this
group willing to go, or were they told they might have to go, in order
to take care of smart Negroes ?
Mr. GiPSON. They said it might even come necessary to have to
murder somebody.
Mr. Appell. You testified that you took an oath which was differ-
ent from the oath administered in a Klavern. Do you remember the
context of this oath, or do you remember any part of it wliich made
an impression upon you at the time ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2615
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir. One part of it I well remember, the part
wliere "if you reveal any secrecy, ever talk, that yon would get your
head blown from your shoulders." I well remember that.
Mr. Appell. Your testimony is that, as part of this oath, it was set
forth that a violation of the secrecy of the wrecking crew would result
in your head being- blown otf from your shoulders?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. Was there discussion
The Chairman. May I first ask a question about the meeting?
Were any of you in robes or were you in plain clothes when you admin-
istered that oath?
Mr. GiPSON. We had plain clothes, but we had black masks.
The Chairman. And that was in July of 1964?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. I was going to ask about subsequent events, Mr. Chair-
man— but this black mask that you wore, did it cover your head so
that no one could identify you, so that only the eye slits showed
through ?
Mr. GiPSON. That's right.
Mr. Appell. Was there any discussion after the oath as to retalia-
tion against a member of the wrecking crew who might violate any
of the secrets of the members of the wrecking crew?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir. They said if a fellow ever talked that they
would get him, that they might not get him then, it mig'lit be 5 or 10
years later, but: he would be gotten.
Mr. Pool. Wim said this?
Mr. GiPSON. These two fellas that were supposed to have been from
northeast Louisiana.
Mr. Pool. You don't know the names ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir. I never did find their names out. They said
that tliey could get men from somewliere else to do these jobs,
Mr. Pool. Where did they tell you this?
Mr. GiPSON. At Al Bardin's.
Mr. Pool. Anybody else here ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir.
Mr. Pool. You are the only one wlio talked?
Mr. GiPSON. I misunderstood. I thought you asked did anybody
else here hear it. I heard it, Oscar Anderson, Harold Brakefield, L. M.
Ray nor. Nelson Ainsworth.
Mr. Pool. Did you ever ask who these fellows were ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir; I never did.
Mr. Weltner. What w^as your understanding as to what was meant
by "they will get you'' ?
Mr. GiPsON. My understanding was that if anybody ever revealed
any of their secrets that they w^ould kill you.
Mr. Weltner. Was there any question about what they meant by
"get you" in your mind?
Mr. Gipsox. Well, I knew what they meant.
Mr. Weltner. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. T want to ask you, and this will be a complete answer.
59-222 O — 67— pt. 3 19
2616 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
I think, to Mr. Pool's question- — in addition to yourself who on this
night took the wrecking crew oath?
Mr. GiPSON. Oscar Anderson, he took it hisself ; Harold Rrakefield;
L. M. Raynor : Louis Singletaiy.
Mr. Appell. S-i-n-g-1-e-t-a-r-y?
Mr. GiPSON. Right; Harold Brakefield, Heniy Gaines
The Chairman. Could you tell us about the ages of those people?
Were they about your age? Were some older or some younger than
you?
Mr. GiPSON. There was two boys — three boys- — pretty close to about
my age, and the rest of them was older than me.
The Chairman. How old would you say?
Mr. GiPSON. I am 29.
The Chairman. You were then 27 ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appei.l. In addition to those that you have already named,
L. M. Raynor, Harold Brakefield, Nelson xlinsworth, and Louis Single-
tary and Henry Gaines, was a man by the name of Talley, whose first
name is Vernon Edgar Talley, another who took the wrecking crew
oath at that time ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, he was.
Mr. Appell. And Henry Clayton Hickey. H-i-c-k-e-y ?
Mr. GiPSON. Right ; he took the oath, too.
Mr. Appell. Did the wrecking crew meet and discuss its business as
part of the regular Klaveni meeting, or did the members of the
wrecking crew hold separate, independent meetings ?
Mr. GiPSON. They held separate meetings.
Mr. Appell. Where would these meetings be held — at the residence
of different members ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, in the residences.
Mr. Appell. At whose residences did some of the meetings of this
particular group take place ?
Mr. GiPSON. Most of the time at Oscar Anderson's house.
Mr. Pool. Was Oscar Anderson the leader of this group ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. He presided at the meetings ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. He gave you instructions ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. He administered the oath? Who administered the oath?
Mr. GiPSON. Them boys that come down from northeast I^uisiana,
they swore him in as the leader and then he was supposed to lead
from there on.
Mr. Pool. They designated him as the leader ?
Mr. GiPSON. In other words, they was just starting him out, just
like they were supposed to already have been.
Mr. Appell. After they swore in Oscar Anderson, then Oscar
Anderson in turn administered the oath to the local members of the
wrecking crew ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. How often did this wrecking crew normally meet?
Mr. GiPSON. They met about once a week.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2617
Mr. Appell. Did you or other members of the wrecking crew ever
travel to places outside of the Pearl River area for the purpose of dis-
cussing o^x^rations and projects or jobs which the wrecking crew should
involve itself in?
Mr. GiPSON. I never did get out of the area of Slidell and Pearl
River.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever attend any meetings in Covington ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, I did attend a meeting out there but it was a
kind of a State meeting like. State officers mostly.
Mr. Appell. And not restricted to wrecking crew pereonnel ?
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir. But there was a little discussion there I heard
on one part of it.
Mr. Appell. Would you describe this meeting for us and tell us
where it was held and approximately when it was held ?
Mr. GiPSON. One Sunday morning Oscar Anderson come by my
house and told me he had a call to meet with some fellows in Coving-
ton. He didn't know who or what was going on.
Mr. Appell. I interrupt you there, Mr. Gipson. In an interview
which you had w^th me did we establish that the approximate date of
tliis meeting was Sunday, the 25th of July 1965 ?
Mr, Gipson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. For the record, about how far is Covington from
Slidell?
Mr. Gipson. Must be around about 25 miles.
The Chairman. About how far is Slidell from Bogalusa, approxi-
mately ?
Mr. Gipson. 36 miles roughly.
The Chairman. And how far is Covington from Bogalusa, approxi-
mately ?
Mr. Gipson. About 50 or 60 miles.
The Chairman. All right. Go ahead.
Mr. Appell. You had told, up to the point of my interruption, that
Oscar Anderson had advised you that he had to go to Covington to
meet with some fellows. Did you accompany Oscar Anderson to
Covington to meet with these fellows ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir. On the way he picked up Al Bardin.
Mr. Appell. He picked up Al Bardin, whom we discussed previ-
ously as the owner of the Pine View Salvage Company ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And the three of you then traveled to Covington ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you have a meeting in Covington ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir. It was a little meeting.
Mr. Appell. Where was this meeting held ?
Mr. Gipson. At Pete Holden's home.
Mr. Appell. That is James Holden, Mr. Chairman, who was a
witness before the committee last week and refused to testify and
invoked his constitutional privileges.
Would you proceed in your own words to describe who was there
and what the general discussion of those assembled was ?
Mr. Gipson. S. J. Parker was there ; Saxon Farmer.
Mr. Appell. Is Mr. Parker from Bush ?
2618 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, from up around Bush.
Mr. Appell, And Saxon Farmer is from Bogalusa.
Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that he was a witness
before the committee last week and refused to testifj' on constitutional
privileges.
You have mentioned Parker and Farmer.
Mr. GiPSON. And Pete Holden.
Mr. Appell. In whose house the meeting was held ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes. Oscar Anderson, Al Bardin and myself, Johnnie
Gipson.
Mr. Appell. Was Albert M. Bancks, B-a-n-c-k-s, also there?
Mr. GiPSON. That is right ; he was there, too.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that at
the time of that meeting Mr. Albert M. Bancks resided at Folsom,
Louisiana, but is currently residing at Foxboro, Mississippi.
Will you proceed with the discussions that might have taken place
at this meeting that you can recall ?
Mr. GiPSON. I heard Oscar Anderson ask Saxon Farmer were they
still going through with the plans to burn the churches, and Saxon
Farmer told him "yes," that it was going to be done statewide, that
they would follow the plans through.
Mr. Appell. Following that meeting, was there subsequently a
meeting of members of the wrecking crew in your area?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Which meeting related itself to the actual burning of
churches ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I think in the interview we established that this meet-
ing was held on July 31, the Saturday following the meeting at Pete
Holden 's house, that it was held at the house of Oscar Anderson; is
that true?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. Would you tell the committee the discussion that went
on at that meeting ?
Mr. Gipsox. We met there, and they decided they would wet the
buildings down with gas.
Mr. Appell. What buildings are Ave talking about ?
Mr. Gipson. The Hartsell Methodist Church, I believe.
Mr. Appell. Methodist Youth Center, I believe is the technical
name.
Mr. Gipson. Yes.
Mr. Pool. What town ?
Mr. Gipson. In Slidell.
Mr. Appell. The other was the Providence Baptist Church?
Mr. Gipson. On Thompson Road.
The Chairman. Were those churches with white congregations or
Negro congregations? Were they colored or white churches?
Mr. Gipson. They were colored churches. They said they were
using them for civil rights meetings. They decided they would wet
them down with gas, take four matches, two on each side of a cigarette
and wrap a rubber band around them to ignite the gas. That was
the trigger.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2619
Mr. Appell. During the iiiter\iew, Mr. Gipsoii, under your guid-
ance and instruction, did we sort of simulate the type of instrument
that was used to ignite the gas ? I show this to you.
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is that the kind of torch that they had planned
to use ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Describe that torch.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, tlie torch that we manufactured at the
guidance of Mr. Gipson is an ordinary cigarette which has four
matches attached to it. These are wood matches, not paper matches.
They are held in place around the cigarette with a rubber band. The
cigarette is ignited and as it burns down it then ignites the matches.
The time that the people have to get away depends upon how close
or far removed tliey put the matches to the ignited end of the cigarette.
Mr. Pool. Is that description the way it was?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Was a time set at which the burning of these two
churches would take place?
Mr. Gipson. Yes. It was set on a Monday night.
Mr. Appell. Is this the Monday which followed the meeting at
Oscar Anderson's house on Saturday ?
Mr. Gipson. On Saturday, that is right.
Mr. Appell, This would then make it on August 2 ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir. They figured the best time would be in the
morning, which would be Tuesday morning at about 1 o'clock.
The Chairman. In the afternoon ?
Mr. Appell. A.M.
The Chairman. In other words, Tuesday at 1 o'clock a.m.
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Just past Monday midnight.
Mr. Gipson. That is right. They said there wouldn't be too many
people stirring at that hour of the night.
Mr. Appell. On the following Monday night, were these acts car-
ried out ?
Mr. Gipson'. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Would you describe in your own words how the
rendezvous was established and how the teams were set up to carry
out the actual purpose ?
Mr. Gipson. That ISIonday night we had a regular Klan meeting at
James L. Leslie's house.
Mr. Appell. He was the exalted cyclops of the unit at that time ?
Mr. Gipson. Right.
Mr. Appell. You mentioned tlie meeting Avas held on a Monday
night. Was this the normal night for a meeting of the Klavern?
Mr. Gipson. No, sir. They had been meeting on Friday nights, but
they decided they would change nights.
Mr. Appell. In order to keep the sheriff's department and the FBI
from observing their meetings, they then switched the meeting nights?
Mr. Gipson. Right.
Mr. Appell. Proceed with the meeting and what happened.
Mr. Gipson. We had a regular meeting
2620 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. By "we," do you mean the wrecking crew?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes.
Mr. Appell. By the regular meetmg, you mean of the Klavem
membership ?
Mr. GiPSON. The Klavern meeting and the wrecking crew men were
there, too. After tlie reguhir meeting, Oscar Anderson said just wait
until everybod}^ left, and when everybody left he come around and he
asked if everything was ready, and was told j^es. He said, "Well, I
am going home so I will have an ironclad alibi"
Mr. Appell. Let me interrupt you there. Oscar Anderson is the
KBIman?
Mr. GipsoN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. He is the man who planned the action ?
Mr. Gipsoisr. Right.
Mr. Appell. But instead of going with you to carry out these acts,
he is going home so he can have a perfect alibi ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What is that ?
Mr. Appell. He is going home after planning it and getting the
people to do it, so he will have a perfect alibi.
Mr. GiPSON. He doesn't worry about the rest of the guys. So we
left and went on about 8 miles and we stopped again. We were going
to split up there. So two took the one on Thompson Road.
The Chairman. I do not want to break into your thoughts, but
when you say "we," who are they ? You and who else?
Mr. GiPsoN. L. M. Raynor and Louis Singletary were going to take
the one on Thompson Road, and myself and Clayton Hickey and Ed
Talley were going to get the the other one on Shortcut Highway.
Mr. Appell. That would be the Hartsell Methodist Youth Center (
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Continue.
Mr. GiPSON. I had my truck. The other two boys had a car. They
were going to let me take my truck home, and I was going to leave it.
They were going to pick me up. I had two of these little hand walkie-
talkie radios that they use on guard duty around the Klavern. I had
me a little story made up. When I went in and put the radios up, I
come back out and told them, the two boys I was with, Hickey and
Talley, that my wife was crying and begging me not to go, which was
the story I just made up, and that I couldn't go. They said, "We
understand, but we will take care of it."
Mr. Appell. To your knowledge and to the public knowledge of
people in the community, were the Providence Ba[)tist Church and the
Hart-sell Methodist Youth Cenler set fire that night?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir. The next morning I went to work and I heard
it on the radio that they were both burned down.
Mr. Appell. After this burning, did you continue active member-
ship in the Klan ?
Mr. Gipsox. After that hai)pened, I knew I couldn't go on with
them kind of things, and I slacked oti'. I got on the side with the
law officials, and they advised and asked me would I get back in the
groove and go back to the regular meetings so I could help stop that
kind of things, and I did.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2621
(At this point Kepresentative Seniier entered the liearing I'oom.)
The Chairman. What hiw officials ?
Mr. Gipsox. Mr. Broom.
The Chairman. Wlio is he i
Mr. GiPSON. Slieriff Broom of St. Tammany Parish.
The Chairman. It was by arrangement of your sheriff that you
appear here today ? Is that right, as far as you know ? I am telling
you it is.
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You said you were engaged in logging operations.
I think even yesterday you were logging ; were you not ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Through your sheriff' you asked two things of the
committee. One, that your expenses be paid and, second, that you
be afforded police protection while you were in Washington; is that
correct ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I have afforded you that, and I direct the police to
continue that watch.
By the way, there was discussion about your protection when you
went back home. The sheriff said he would take care of that. I con-
gratulate him.
Mr. GiPSON. He is a fine fellow.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, on January 5, 1966, did you then leave
the Klan and become a witness for the State in a prosecution of
fellow Klansmen who carried out the whipping of Clarence O'Berry ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Pool. I did not get the last question, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. I asked whether or not the witness on January 5, 1966,
became a witness in a trial growing out of the whipping of Clarence
O'Berry.
It was with your taking the witness stand in that case that you
severed your Klan connections, which immediately prior thereto you
were carrying out at the request of Sheriff Broom of St. Tammany
Parish ?
Mr. GiPsoN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I do not know whether you possess knowledge but I
shall ask: In October 1965 there was a fire in the Sixth Ward near
Hickory occasioned by threats brought against the builder of the
property because he was using Negro help in finishing cement or con-
crete. The first threat of burning of the lumber that Avas being used
in construction was the hanging of a doll by its neck to simulate .a
hanging. Do you possess laiowledge of that?
Mr. GiPsoN. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. You talked about w^alkie-talkies that you had taken
from the Klavern meeting on the night of August 2 and left at your
home. AYliat use does the Klan make of walkie-talkie radios?
Mr, GiPSON. In case anybody starts in, they can be notified inside
to disband and stop their business.
Mr. Appixl. Therefore, a man outside has a walkie-talkie and
someone inside
Mr. Gipson. They have one inside. Sometimes they might have
two or three more outside. Like if the building is back off the road,
2622 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
there will be one away out by the road and maybe one about the
middle ways, and then one pretty close by the house.
Mr. Appkll. Is it your knowledge that Avithin the operation of the
Klan, members use very extensively citizens band radios in their auto-
mobiles for the purpose of carrying out Klan activities ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, they do. They use ever;yi:hing they can .ar-
range and scrape to do it. They get every chamiel they can.
Mr. Appell. Even though their authority might be for a certain
channel, they do not remain within the regulations of the Federal
Communications Commission ?
Mr. Gipsox. I don't think they do.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, were you defended by the same counsel
that defended the defendants m that case ?
Mr. Gipson. No, sir. I had my own separate lawyer.
Mr. Appell. Wliat was the quotation of expense to the Klan for
the defense of the Klan defendants in that trial ?
Mr. GiPSON. I understood the amount would be aromid $9,000. I
got to figuring I might be getting took and that I wasn't going to take
that law^yer because it is kinda hard for me, raising a family and the
kind of work I am doing, to get up that kind of money. I was afraid
I might wind up with a suit for that $9,000. I decided I would just
have me another lawyer.
Mr. Appell. Do you know how the Klan raised the necessary legal
fees that they had to pay to defend the Klansmen in that trial?
Mr. GiPSON. They raffled off a bull and they gave turkey shoots.
Whenever they had a rally they would take up a collection. Stuff
like that.
Mr. Appell. Prior to going to trial, was there discussion among
the people as to what they felt their chances might be during the trial,
whether they were going to be acquitted or whether they were going
to be found guilty ?
Mr. GiPSON". They said unless somebody pimped, there wouldn't be
a conviction.
Mr. Appell. They were convicted, were they not ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, they were.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, I have one more question to ask of you.
I would like you in your own words to say why you joined the Klan
and why you agreed to render assistance to Sheriff Broom of St.
Tammany Parish, and therefore technically leave the Klan.
Mr. GiPSON. At the time I joined, I figured it was a pretty good
thing tliat they had going, and I figured sometliing might be accom-
plished by it, but as I stayed in and seen these things happen and they
kept getting worse and worse, I knew it could not go on for me. You
can't do them kind of things and get by the hiw like that. T just had
to go the right way.
The Chairman. Mr. Gipson, I suppose it w\as because of people like
Preacher Leslie and High School Principal Rowley — it was because
of people of that prominence in the community who talked to you,
people of that type who led you to believe this was a good organization.
Mr. Gipson. Yes. When I first went in, there was a lot of fellows
in it, and they were what I call upstanding men. And then they
started dropping out.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2623
The Chairman, They are dropping out some more now ?
Mr. GiPSON. They are dropping out. It is boiling down to just a
bunch of
The Chairman. Say it.
Mr, GiPSON, The way I Avould describe it would be renegades.
Eight now I feel my life ain't worth two cents to me. I figure my
family — they might even go through them to get me.
The Chairman. Are you afraid? You are doing a courageous
thing.
Mr. GiPSON. I am trying to right a wrong and help the cause of the
country. I feel I am supposed to do it. I am not scared of them.
I am scared of the law. I am not scared of them.
The Chairman. Do you find there are other people who are learning
the truth and that they do not have that fear any more and are
willing to come out and stand up for law and order ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is what is going on in your area ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, that is right.
The Chairman. I hope this will be an example for others to do
what you are doing today. I hope and express confidence that that
will come about.
Mr. Appell. With respect to the wrecking crew, are you acquainted
with the constitution which provided that there should be a formal
organization within the Klan known as the wrecking crew ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes.
Mr. Appell. The wrecking crew of which you were a member was
an official Klan group ; is that right ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. The members of the Klavern all knew there was such a
thing as a wrecking crew which was authorized by the Klavern?
Mr. GiPSON. They pretty well knew there was a wrecking crew, but
they couldn't pinpoint them out.
Mr. Pool. They knew there was such an organization within the
Klavern itself ?
Mr. GiPSON. I think they did.
The Chairman. But the whole idea of the Klan is that the wreck-
ing crew itself be kept secret ?
Mr. GiPSON. Be kept secret, right.
The Chairman. One more thing in addition to my reference to
possible influence on you of Preacher Leslie and the high school prin-
cipal. I have before me literature on this general subject, literature
of the Klan, which reads: "To be read and reread until thoroughly
understood by all officers and members." Also, it should be used as
background material for discussions and lectures at local and unit
meetings. I will read only one example : "The purpose and function
of this organization is to preserve Christian Civilization."
That is the kind of thing they preach — Christianity, patriotism,
love of country, anticommunism, and all the rest, in addition, of coui^se,
to hatred in matters involving racial relations. That is the kind of
stuff they preach.
Mr. GiPSON. Yes, sir, that is right.
The Chairman. Do they practice what they preach ?
2624 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. GiPSON. No, sir, they don't.
The Chairman. Of course, burning churches and things of that
nature are, to say the least, im-Cliristian ; isn't that correct?
Mr. GiPSON. Right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gipson, returning to E^Ye^ Rowley, the high school
principal, do you possess knowledge as to why he gave up the position
of exalted cy clops and what rank within the Klan he assumed?
Mr. GiPSON. One of his reasons was that it was going to interfere
with his job being principal of the school, and then the next reason
was when this O'Berry boy got whipped, I don't believe it was brought
before him and cleared before him. He realized he couldn't have no
control over the men, and I think he thought it was best for him to
drop out.
Mr. Appell. Drop the position of exalted cyclops ?
Mr. Gipson. Right.
Mr. Appell. Did he continue a membership of some kind ?
Mr. GiPSON, Then he became an honorary member. Actually, he
is not attendmg no meetings.
Mr. Appell. Some constitutions of the Klan, if not your Klan,
provide for secret members. Would you put him in this category ?
Mr. Gipson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "When you said difficulty with respect to his position
of principal, were you inferring that he might lose his position ? Is
that the type of difficulty you referred to ?
Mr. GiPSON. Yes. He felt it would cause him to lose his job.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainnan, the staff has not further questions of
this witness.
Mr. Pool. I just want to complmient the witness for being a very
brave man to come here and testify in view of the fact that there
is a chance that somebody might try to harm you or your family.
I want to point out to you that this committee has had similar things
in the investigation of commimism. We have had witnesses come
and point out people who are Communists and trying to infiltrate
industry and things like that. You have the same thing going on in
other areas, where you have extreme groups trying to preach violence.
I assure you, after these people have been named here this morning, I
do not think anyone is going to tiy to harm you, but if they do, this
committee should be notified, the chainnan should be notified, and we
will take action immediately.
The Chairman. There is a very severe law to the effect if anyone
who takes the stand either before a court or before a committee is
subjected to attempts at intimidation or recrimination or violence or
threats, that is a severe thing under the law, and the law is there
to punish those people. If any such thing happens, let me know.
I will bet 10 to 1 no such thing is going to happen. This threat
and this preachment that a wrecking crew member's talking would re-
sult in his neck being severed from his body and that members of his
family will be hurt — that is just so much talk to intimidate and put
the members themselves in fear. The more like you who are brave
like you and talk, the less and less such a thing will happen. I would
bet nothing is going to happen to you. You are protected here, and
I am sure your good sheriff will protect you back home.
Mr. Pool. The Federal Government itself will become a pretty good
wrecking crew if those people do try anything like that.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2625
Mr. GiPSON. The judge I think understands that, too. I glory in his
spunk. He flat laid the cards on the table.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chainnan, I should like to join in the state-
ment of the Chair and of the members of the committee in commend-
ing this witness for his courage. I know courage in New York City,
Buffalo, and Atlanta is one thing. Courage in Slidell, Louisiana, is
another thing. I have developed an intense admiration for you since
you have been here. I simply want to add this one point, Mr.
Gipson. The literature which we have in the record of these hearings
is quite clear that the Klan realizes that its power is in the secrecy of
its membership. What power the Klan has, I think it is becoming
clear, depends upon the secrecy of that membership. Tn recent weeks,
substantial changes have come about in the maintenance of that secrecy.
The action of the Federal court which resulted in the submission to
that court of the membership list of the Klan of Bogalusa and of the
Anti-Communist Christian Association is one thing. The very fine
investigation conducted by the staff of this committee is another. The
fact of the matter is, Mr. Gipson, there is no secrecy of membership
within the area concerning which you testified. The Federal court
knows who the Klansmen are ; this committee knows who the Klans-
men are ; the Federal Bureau of Investigation knows who the Klans-
men are. So far as your concern about the danger Avhich exists by
virtue of your testimony here today to you and your family, take
some heart in the fact that the agencies of the Government, both the
legislative branch through this committee and the executive branch
through the FBI and the judicial branch through the court in New
Orleans, know exactly who it might be on the other end of that tele-
phone when you receive a threatening call. They know exactly what
group it might be that sets out some kind of intimidation or harass-
ment of you or your family. We know, and we are determined, so far
as it is within our power, speaking for the Federal Government, all
branches, to protect you and your family.
The power of the Klan is the secrecy of its membership and that
power has been vastly diluted and abated in recent weeks, and it w^ill
continue to dwindle because the facts are coming in and the facts will
be available through people such as yourself.
Mr. Pool. I think we will have more people come forth with state-
ments like Mr. Gipson's and further expose the Klan. Don't you
agree ?
Mr. Weltner. I am certainly hopeful that the example which Mr.
Gipson has set here will stimulate others to consider what is their duty
as Americans as well as their duty as Christians.
Mr. Gipson. I hope so myself. I can see it is beginning to weaken
now. I know in our area it is weakened now.
Mr. Weltner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Mr. Gipson, I want to read from the Federal law
I just mentioned a while ago. Among other acts which this law makes
unlawful — it states :
Whoever injures any party or witness in his person or property on account
of his attending or having attendetl such proceeding, inquiry, or investigation,
or on account of his testifying or having testified to any matter pending therein ;
or
2626 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Shall be fined not more than $5,000 or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
The record will show that you have appeared, have been sworn, and
have testified, and you have the protection of this law.
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Gipson, I cannot tell you how much I admire
your courage. In the last analysis, a nation is only as strong as the
people who make it up, and I think you are demonstrating yourself
today before this committee to be a part of the hope of our Republic,
and I appreciate it.
One of the ideas which was perpetrated by the Klan organization
was that they are fighters against communism. May I say, sir, that
people like you, who are determined to uphold the law and attempt to
do what is right, are this Nation's strength in the struggle against
world communism, and those who perpetrate acts of violence and ter-
rorism, who take the law into their own hands, serve well the Commu-
nist cause. As far as I am concerned, you here today are taking your
stand as a patriot doing what is right, and people like you are the
people wlio are really going to win the battle against communism.
I want to thank you for your testimony.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 2 :30 this
afternoon.
(Members present at time of recess: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Buchanan, of the subcommittee, and also Representative
Senner.)
Cl^Hiereupon, at 11:25 a.m., Tuesday, January 11, 1966, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, JANUARY 11, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:30 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, Weltner, Ash-
brook, and Buchanan, of the subcommittee, and also Representative
Senner. )
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Call the first witness.
Mr. Appell. George Gill Harris, Jr.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
Avhole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Harris. I do.
The Chairman. Proceed.
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE GILL HARRIS, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, will you identify yourself for the record,
please?
Mr. Harris. George Gill Harris, Jr.
Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, may I state at this time his subpena
only reads "George Gil Harris." I would consent to any amendment
to this subpena by the cliainnan since he has identified himself as
George Gill Harris, Jr. He informs me that it is G-i-1-1, rather than
one "1."
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2627
The Chairman. In view of the self-identification by the witness as
the person served and the statement of counsel, the subpena will be
technically corrected to conform to his true name.
Mr. ArrELL. Mr. Harris, are you appearing liere in accordance with
the subpena, which has now been technically amended, served upon
you at Fourth Street, Bernice, Louisiana, on the 27th day of October
1965?
Mr. Harris. Yes.
Mr. Chalmers. Speak up for the record.
Mr. Harris. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Harris. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law^, Raleigh,
North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, the subpena served upon you contained
in the attachment thereto, which was made a part of the subpena,
under the conditions of the subpena you were called upon to produce,
to bring with you and to produce documents described in the attach-
ment, paragraph 1 of which reads as follows :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.. also
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana
Rescue Service, Bernice Sportsman Club in your possession, custody and control,
or maintained by you or available to you as Kligrapp or Secretary of the Invis-
ible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.,
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Harris, I request you to produce in your representative capacity
stated therein the documents called for by part 1 of the subpena.
The Chairman. Is it stipulated that the subpena served upon him
orders him to produce the documents therein refen^ed to in the capacity
stated therein ?
Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena ; yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee subpena dated Octo-
ber 14, 1965, for the reason that I lionestly feel to do so might tend to
incriminate me in violation of my rights guaranteed to me by amend-
ments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the T"'^nited States of
America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subcommittee's
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in consideration
of any valid remedial legislation, nor is any such inquiiy within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated ])y the rules adopted by
the Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, before asking a direction of the Chair, I
Avould like to ask you, have you been apprised of the statement the
chairman issued in October at the start of these hearings which set
forth the purpose of the hearings and the other pertinent facts with
respect thereto?
2628 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Chalmers. I will stipulate that he has, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I now ask tliat the witness be directed
to produce those documents called for in paragraph 1. I ask for di-
rection of paragraph 1.
The Chairman. The reasons you have given for your refusal to
produce the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not
legally justify your refusal. Therefore, those reasons are rejected.
Accordingly, I order and direct you to produce the documents in the
representative capacity as stated by Mr. Appell and in this subpena.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
records— grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, paragraph 2 of the attachment to the sub-
pena calls for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody and control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past Kligrapp and/or member of the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said
organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other
officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
The Chairman. Is the same stipulation with reference to his rep-
resentative capacity entered into ?
Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena ; yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, I request you to produce in your represent-
ative capacity stated therein the documents called for in paragaph 2
of the subpena.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
groimds previously stated.
The Chairman. For the reasons previously indicated, I direct you
to produce the documents called for in the representative capacity
stated in the subpena.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the connnittee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, paragraph 3 calls upon you to produce:
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June
30, 1965, filed by you as Kligrapp.
I request you to produce in the representative capacity set forth in
paragraph 3 the documents called for.
The Chairman. The same stipulation?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by tlie committee on the grounds
previously stated.
Tlie Chairman. For the reasons previously stated, I order and
direct you to produce those documents in the capacity stated.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that as secretary of the Bemice Sportsman
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2629
Club, Box 57, Bernice, Louisiana, aaid as secretai-y of the Louisiana
Rescue Service, Box 57, Beniice, Louisiana, you filed in the case of
Bernice [Sportsman Club] on August 17, 1965, and on August 18 in
the case of the Louisiana Rescue Service, Forms 1120, U.S. corporate
income tax return for the two organizations that I have mentioned to
you.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights guaranteed to me by amenchiients 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. In support of the tax returns which you filed, do you
have in your possession financial books and records upon which these
returns were based ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Have any records upon which the two returns were
based been destroyed since the filing of the corporate returns men-
tioned on August 17 and 18, 1965 ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to reflect that
the "Constitution and Laws" of the United Klans of America, Incor-
porated, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, adopted in Imperial Klon-
cilium at Birmingham, Alabama, in September 1964, set forth certain
documents to be received by the grand kligrapp of a realm and pre-
scribes the kligrapp of the realm as an officer of the organization.
Mr. Harris, when and where were you bom ?
Mr, Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Have you been an officer of the Bernice Sportsman
Club since January of 1964 ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed priv-
ilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as tliey pertain to Mr.
Harris.
George Gill, spelled with two "Ps," Harris, Jr., was born Jan-
uary 16, 1922, at Haynesville, Louisiana. He resides at Bernice.
Louisiana, Avhere he operates Harris' 5 and 10, a variety store. He
served in the Army from September 24, 1942, to April 24, 1946, and
in the Enlisted Reserve Corps until April 23, 1949. His military
specialty was telephone lineman, repainnan, and repeatemian. At
the time of entry into the Army he claimed 1 year of college.
Harris has been a member of the Klan since at least January 1964.
He has been an official of the Klavern Itnown under the cover name
Bernice Sportsman Club since January of 1964. This Klavern was
affiliated with the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under J. D.
Swenson and Royal V. Young. It became affiliated with the United
Klans of America around April 1964 and became part of Louisiana
2630 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Kealm of that organization, which uses as its cover name the Lou-
isiana Rescue Service.
Harris is currently reahn kligrapp or secretary. In this position
he receives monthly reports from each Klavem within the realm.
He receives all funds due to the realm which he turns over to the
realm treasurer. As secretary he possesses the identities of all Kla-
vern kligrapps or secretaries as well as exalted cyclops.
On May 15-16, 1965, Harris attended a meeting of imperial officers
and other Klan officials at Natchez, Mississippi.
Mr. Harris, the records of the Bank of Bemice, Bemice, Louisiana,
covering the name of the Bernice Sportsman Club, handled both the
fimds of the realm and the funds of the Klavem. I put it to you as
a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that prior to the
committee's inquiry or announcement of inquiry into the Klan, the
Bemice Sportsman Club paid imperial tax on 97 membei-s and by
July of 1965 it was paying imperial tax on 25 members.
The Chairman. Before answering this question, Mr. Harris, I
wish to say this to you: You have heard the sworn statement just
made by the comjnittee's investigator, Mr. Don Appell. You now
have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement out-
lining your activities, to confirm or challenge the accuracy of the
information, or to explain any part of that statement.
In addition you have the right, if you desire, to offer any other
matters that the committee may deem relevant to this inquiiy. Do
you care to avail yourself of that opportmiity ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Harris, I must inform you that
in the absence of your rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the
attention of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy
of its investigation. With that in mind, do you have anything else
to say, or anything to say?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, I think for the record there is still
one question that Mr. Appell asked that the witness has not replied
to yet. If we
The Chairman. You may now respond to the pending question.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, as the grand kligrapp of the Realm of
Louisiana, which operates a little differently than most UKA realms
operate, in that imperial per capita tax, until some new Klaverns
came under your jurisdiction recently, you collected the imperial tax
and transmitted it on to the imperial office in Tuscaloosa. Therefore,
you possess knowledge of the identity of ITKA Klaverns within the
State of Louisiana.
An examination of deposit slips reflects that prior to August 6,
1965, when the account in the name of the I^ernice Sportsman Club
was closed out and a new account was opened in the name of the
Louisiana Rescue Sei*\'ice, there were these Klaverns in existence.
After I read you the names of the Klaverns, I would like to ask
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2631
you whether or not ail of tlie Klaverns that I mentioned to you are
still in operation.
The Bernice Sportsman Club, Calhoun Businessmen's Association,
C. B. Riding CIud, Chatham Hunting and Fishing Club, Dnbach, as
we interpret the deposit slip — Mr. Chairman, D-u-b-a-c-h — Hunting
and Fishing Club, the Dugdemonice Hunting Club, the Farmville
Hunting and Fishing Club, the Jackson Parish Cun and Rod Club,
the Marion Hunting and Fishing Club, the MOG— M-O-G, I don't
know whether that is an abbreviation — Junction City Sportsman Club,
the Okeloosa Hunting Club, the Ouachita Parish Hunting and Fishing
Club, the Sterlington Hunting and Fishing Club #8, the Taylortown
Hunting Club, Union Hunting and Fishing Club, Ward 10 Hunting
Club.
Are they still in existence?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 1" and retained
in committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, does the Realm of Louisiana have a Klav-
ern in Kemier, Louisiana ?
Mr. HLvRRis. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, on August 27, 1965, Charles L. Miller of
2512 Airline Highway ^vrote a check or obtained a money order from
the Merchants Trust and Savings Bank in Kenner, Louisiana, payable
to the United Klans of America in the amount of $30. Purpose for
which drawn, copies of the Klan publication, the Fiery Gross.
This is according to deposits made to the accoimt of the Alabama
Rescue Service as obtained through a subpena duces tecum from The
First National Bank of Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Do you know Charles
L.Miller?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the gromids previously stated.
(Check marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 2" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, you can help the committee imderstand
something that confuses it. There is maintained in Bogalusa, Louisi-
ana, an account in the name of the LTnited Conservatives of Mississippi,
No. 1. The signature to this account is B. L. Sellers. Is this a Klavern
within the Realm of Louisiana, or the Louisiana Rescue Service or a
Klavern in Mississippi affiliated with the Realm of Mississippi known
as the Mississippi Rescue Service ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 3'" appear on p.
2632.)
Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, let me talk to you a minute.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should reflect that
the checks drawn against the account of the United Conservatives of
Mississippi, No. 1, are deposited to the official account of the United
Klans of America, which is maintained under the name of the Alabama
Rescue Service.
(At this point Mr. Weltner left the hearing room.)
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 20
2632 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
George Harris Exhibit No. 3
NOV 19 1965
'■■f "[■• I
rn'^ted Conservatives of P6.93, Inc» #1
IVASHINGTON BANK & TRUST COMPANY
It .s. .■ •!: lUK 'iitAN.^ACnijX .K milCK 1ISI.M-:>S fi'lt THIS .\'
<0^c/ ^-.
'-^.-<:-^d^.^-i=^,..._..
r K1-..-1IIKS- f
riiiM i>t;.N';
■KASt-nElt
SKPRKTARV
A^.^T.
TRKA^tntKl:
-\,'^'
A.<S'r
— •"• ■ (, d
WASHINGTON BANK .v iiiuii CuMFAIn x
'iu.-.':i' !'i H lilt ■<«■-, I I'.i"; 'Hh -•■. . /rrnv^s ^iiVKv uhM.nw r
-^ ^ ; / ./ — . — _;:
< li ■« i'
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that on 11-22-1965 you were the cosigner of
a check drawn against the Louisiana Rescue Service in the amount of
$185 payable to the Alabama Rescue Service and that this check repre-
sents the imperial tax on only 370 members, which is the bulk of your
membership in the State of Louisiana.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Check marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 4" follows:)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2633
George Harris Exhibit No. 4
y/:^'y Bernicei.La..- IL/jkH \^LA. no. ^^
-r/^-
-I'VO
or BE«MCE. UNION PARISH. LA.
Pay TO
ORDER O
^ 6-vi-<la:^--dt^^-^^^_ /Tj.
>/
•MMJIfi-tlkK »r>T1|>MIIS
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, do you have a women's auxiliary in Mon-
roe, Louisiana, which makes payments to the imperial account from
an account known as the Green Thumb Club ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harris, mucli is s;iid by Dr. Edwards, the Grand
Dragon of the Realm of Louisiana, about the United Klans of America
and the Louisiana Realm not endorsing violence. On September 4,
1964, a check was written to Tom Wliitehead, an exalted cyclops of a
Klavern in Georgia, who was collecting money from Klaverns
throughout the United States, the total simi of which was to go for
the defense of the United Klansmen arrested in the murder of Lieu-
tenant Colonel Lemuel Penn. Can you explain this check to Tom
AVliitehead in the light of your announced nonviolent position ?
Mr. Harris. I resiDectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the gromids previously stated.
(Check marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 5," See report, p. 121.)
Mr. Appell. On March 20, 1965, a check was drawn payable to
"E. L. McDaniels," the Grand Dragon of MivSsissippi, in the amount
of $20 for a defense fund. Can you tell the committee what defense
this was ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Check marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 6" appears on p. 2634.)
(At this point Mr. Buchanan left the hearing room and Mr. Weltuer
returned.)
Mr. Appell. Do you know whether or not it related to the defense
of any United Klansman involved in violence ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
on grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Coulcl it have been funds collected by the United Klans
of America to help defray expenses for those people who were arrested
following the murder of the three civil rights workers?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
ihe grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of Mr. Harris.
2634 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
George Harris Exhibit No. 6
Bank t>r IIhhxi<:k f*^*-^*
r X7m*r*m9m*»- - • i v ^^
/
^ ^X^
4.c^-^.,, ^^^^-^
The Chairman. Questions?
Mr. Pool. Mr. Harris, were you in the audience when the previous
witness testified, Mr. Gipson ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Gipson came before this committee to testify very
bravely. One of the things he said was that he wanted to right the
wrong that he had done.
You don't care to absolve your conscience in any way before this
committee ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr, Pool. I want to point out one other thing in the testimony which
has come to us here during the testimony. The word "conservative" is
used to hide the front of the Ku Klux Klan. It is a fraud and a dis-
grace to the philosophy for which the word "conservative" stands.
The fact that the Communists have come before this committee and
used the name of labor is a disgrace and a fraud on respectful, decent.
God-fearing, patriotic Americans who belong to organized labor.
Let him answer if he Avants to, with your advice.
Mr. Chalmers. There is no question.
Mr. Pool. Do you have any comments, then ?
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. The way this thing is going, maybe within 6 months
or a year, you may wish you had answered differently. You may wish
that you had been brave enough to come before this committee and
absolve your conscience. I am talking about back home, back in
Louisiana. The people in the South will not put up with this kind of
philosophy of hate and violence and the things that are coming out
now, and they will come out faster as this thing progresses.
We are giving you a chance right now to do this.
Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline to answer that question based on
the grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2635
Mr. Pool. That is all.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Bobby Gene Kelley.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kelley. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BOBBY GENE KELLEY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, state your full name for the record, please.
Mr. Kelley. Bobby Gene Kelley.
Mr. Appell. B-o-b-b-y G-e-n-e K-e-1-l-e-y?
Mr. Kelley. That is right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, are you appearing before the committee
today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 27th day
of October 1965 at Route 1, Box 227, Bernice, Louisiana?
Mr. Kelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Kelley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself ^
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., 501 First Federal Build-
ing, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, under the conditions of the subpena served
upon you, and attachment which was made part of that subpena, you
were commanded to bring with you and to produce documents de-
scribed in four parts of the subpena.
Part 1 reads :
All books, records, documents, correpsondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and af-
filiated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue
Service and/or Bernice Sportsman Club in your ix)ssession, custody or con-
trol, or maintained by you or available to you as State Treasurer of the In-
visible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.,
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I request you to produce in your representative capacity stated there-
i n the documents called for in part 1 of your subpena.
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the con-
sideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within
2636 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted Jan-
uary 4, 1965.
Mr. Appbll. Mr. Chairman, before we ask for the stipulation, and
I ask for an order of direction, I desire to ask the witness whether or
not he was advised of the opening statement of the Chair made in
October 1965, which set forth the purposes for which these series of
hearings were being held.
Mr. Chalmers. It is stipulated, Mr. Chairman, that he has been so
advised.
The Chairman. Is it stipulated that the subpena directs him to
produce documents in the capacities recited in the subpena ?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Witness, the reasons you have given for re-
fusal to produce the documents called for by this part of the subpena
do not legally justify your refusal or rejection. I therefore order
and direct you to produce those documents in the representative
capacity stated.
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell, Mr. Kelley, part 2 of the subpena calls upon you to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past State Treasurer of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knighta
of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said orga-
nization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
I request you to produce in the representative capacity stated therein
the documents called for in part 2 of the subpena.
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed to produce
those documents.
The Chairman. Because of the reasons stated and pursuant to the
stipulation made I order and direct you to produce those documents.
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, I hand you a copy, a reproduced copy of
a canceled check dated September 27, 1965, payable to G. G. Harris,
Jr., in the sum of $25. This is drawn against the Bank of Bemice,
Bernice, Louisiana. The maker of the check is the Louisiana Rescue
Service, and the cosigners to the account are G. G. Harris, Jr., secre-
tary, and Bobby G. Kelley, treasurer.
I hand you this and put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm
or deny the fact, tliat you are the Bobby G. Kelley shown on this
canceled check as treasurer of the Louisiana Rescue Service.
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2637
reason tliat I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the ITnited States of America.
(Document marked "Bobby Kelley Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Bobby Kelley Exhibit No. 1
1 BtPNict La. '/V 19^^
1 Hank <»f lli:iexi« i:
No 7 "-'
■ J \
004.(_A«S
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, when and where w-ere you born ?
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of
privilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to
the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Kelley.
Bobby Gene Kelley was born on October 3, 1932, at Bemice,
Louisiana. He has a high school education. He served in the
United States Navy from December 1951 to December 1955 and
received an honorable discharge.
He resides at Route 2, Bemice, Louisiana, and is employed by the
Lion Oil Company, El Dorado, Arkansas, Avhere he is a foreman in
the print shop.
Bobby Gene Kelley became a Klan official in 1965 when he re-
])laced Mr. Roberson on the signature card in the account of the
Klavem maintained at the Bank of Bernice. This Klavern uses the
cover name of the Bernice Sportsman Club.
At the time, the Bernice Sportsman Club was affiliated with the
Realm of Louisiana of the United Klans of America, Inc., which
realm is known by the cover name of the Louisiana Rescue Service.
In March 1965 Kelley was elected realm klabee, or treasurer.
As klabee, Kelley is responsible for payment of bills and other
obligations. Many Klaverns in Louisiana make payments to the
realm, of both realm and imperial per capita tax. Thus Kelley paid
the United Klans of America through its cover name, the Alabama
Rescue Service, $185 in November, w^hich under present requirements
2638 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
of 50 cents per member means the realm's per capita tax was upon 370
members.
At the time of the committee's announcements of the Klan probe,
the Klan was paying imperial tax on 872 members.
In addition to payments of its officials, the klavem or realm, both
of whom process their funds through the Bemice Sportsman Club,
made a payment on September 4, 1964, to Tom Whitehead, a
United Klans of America exalted cyclops in Georgia. At the time
Tom IVliitehead was handling defense funds for the Klansmen in-
volved in the murder of Lieutenant Colonel Lemuel Penn. On March
20, 1965, a check in the amount of $20 was paid to the Grand Dragon
for Mississippi of the United Klans of America, E. L. McDaniel. This
check drawn against the Bernice Sportsman Club shows the purpose
for which drawn as "Defense Fund." (George Harris Exhibits Nos.
5 and 6.)
On June 12, 1965, Kelley was one of the participants in a caravan
of the United Klans of America through the streets of Natchez,
Mississippi.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Kelley pos-
sesses additional information wliich is both pertinent and relevant
to this inquiry, and would materially aid the Congress in enacting
remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Kelley, you have heard the statement of Mr.
Appell, our chief investigator, who is under oath just as you are.
You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to confirm or challenge the accuracy of any information,
or to explam any part of it.
In addition you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the
committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity?
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In view of which, Mr. Kelley, I must inform you
that absent your rebuttal, or other facts that may come to the attention
of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its
investigation.
In light of that do you have anything to say ?
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the gi^ounds preWously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kelley, are you willing and prepared to give to
the committee knowledge which you possess as an officer and the grand
klabee of the Realm of Louisiana as it relates to tlie operations of the
Ku Klux Klan, United Klans of America, within the State of
Louisiana?
Mr. Kelley. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staif has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairman. Questions?
Mr. Weltner. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. James Malcolm Edwards.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2639
Do you solenmly swear that the testimony you are about to give
in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Edwards. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES MALCOLM EDWARDS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
The Chairman. Sir, I represent to you as facts the following:
During the Christmas recess you phoned me at my home in St. Mar-
tinville, Louisiana. You were in a rather belligerent mood. The fol-
lowing conversation ensued:
You said: "What the hell is your stalf doing smnmoning me to ap-
})ear on a certain date and then postponing the date of appearance?"
I said : "Doctor," because you represented yourself as a doctor, "I
don't attend to these details, but I think you will find out that the
staff knows what it is doing."
"Furthermore," I said, "you will have an opportunity to say all
you want to say when you do appear."
Then I added "By the way, do you intend to testify and sjDeak on
the witness stand?"
I ask you to affirm or deny these facts.
Mr. Chalmers. May I approach the bench ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Before you respond to my question as to whether you would appear
to testify, you did not respond, and that ended the conversation.
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman, Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, we called you to the stand mider your
name. Would you now place your name in the record, please?
Mr. Edwards. James Malcolm Edwards.
Mr. Appell. M-a-1-c-o-I-m, and there is an "s" on the name
E-d-w-a-r-d-s?
Mr. Edwards. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Are you popularly known as doctor ?
Mr. Chalmers. It is stipulated that he is called doctor.
The Chairman. Did you ask him his name and date of birth?
Mr. Appell. We have his name at this stage, sir.
Mr. Edwards, are you appearing before the committee today in ac-
cordance with a subpena served upon you on the 27th day of October
1965 at 426 Sixth Street, Jonesboro, Louisiana ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will comisel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, under the conditions of the subpena and
attachment thereto which is made part of the subpena, you were com-
2640 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
manded to bring with you and produce documents outlined in para-
graph 1 as follows :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. and afiiliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Louisiana Rescue Service
or any other Ku Klux organization in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as Grand Dragon of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc.. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I request you in the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1
to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Chalmers. The same stipulation, Mr. Chairman, that we have
heretofore entered into with respect to other witnesses — the contents
of the chairman's opening statement have been made available to
him.
Mr. Appell. I ask that the witness be directed to answer the question,
Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. He has not responded.
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed
Mr. Chalmers. There is one other one.
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all records as requested by this committee in the subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to
the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Con-
gress in its consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such
inquiry within the scope of tliat authorized to be investigated by Rule
XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, House Resolution 8,
adopted January 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed to produce
those documents called for in paragraph 1.
The Chairman. Sir, the reasons you have given for refusal to pro-
duce the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally
justify your refusal and they are rejected. I therefore order and
direct you to produce those documents, in your capacity stated in the
subpena.
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls for you
to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity
as present or i>ast Grand Dragon and/or member of the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said
organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other oflBcer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 2641
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed to produce
those documents called for in paragraph 2.
The Chairman. For the reasons stated, and the stipulations made,
3'ou are ordered and directed to produce those documents.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents commanded and ordered by the committee, based upon
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you are currently the Grand Dragon for
the Kealm of Louisiana, which operates under cover name of the
Louisiana Rescue Service.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
for the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate
me in the violation of my rights as guaranteed by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, Section 6 [Article XVI] of the "Con-
stitution and Laws" of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan, adopted in Imperial Kloncilium at Birmingham,
Alabama, in September 1964 (Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 3^) pro-
vides that each realm shall have officers.
I read you the officers of the realm as set forth in the constitution
and at the conclusion I shall ask you to identify the holder of each
office as set forth in the constitution :
The officers of A Realm ^hall be a Grand Dragon, who shall be President of
the Klorero ; he shall be elected by the Realm for a term of three years, and
shall govern his Realm in a manner not inconsistent with this Constitution, or
the instructions and directions of his Imperial Klaliff; Grand Klaliff. second
highest officer of a Realm, who shall be vice-'president of tJie Klorero ; Grand
Klokard, lecturer; Grand Kludd, chaplain; Grand Kligrapp, secretary; Grand
Klabee, treasurer ; Grand Kladd, conductor ; Grand Klarogo, inner guard ; Grand
Klexter, outer guard ; and a Grand Nigtht-Hawk. These shall be known as the
Grand Dragon and his nine Hydras. They are to be elected by proper delegation
of their respective Realm.
Please name the people holding the offices provided for by the
constitution.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privilege
and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the com-
mittee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Edwards.
James Malcolm Edwards was born on July 20, 1918, at Marion,
Louisiana. His education includes Louisiana State University and
Kilgore Junior College, Kilgore, Texas, and graduation from the
Palmer College of Chiropractic on August 26, 1951.
He served in the enlisted ranks of the United States Army Air Force
from 1942 to 1946, on active duty, and from March 3, 1949, to October 1,
1952, in the Reserves.
He is self-employed as a chiropractor at 424 West Sixth Street,
Jonesboro, Louisiana.
In September 1963, Mr. Edwards received funds from Royal V.
1 See committee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 181-252.
2642 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Young, Imperial Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan.
(Checks marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 1" follow:)
James Edwards Exhibit No. 1
>
■ %*. •*•
US
ft-.
1
f
I
I
ommmmmmi'^iimm'
4.
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^i 'iJHi'tsaii'
■L^' "*-4
Mr. Appell. In 1964 he became a member and Grand Dragon of the
United Klans of America, Realm of Louisiana, which operates under
the cover name of the Louisiana Rescue Service.
On February 4, 1964, he attended a klonvokation of the Alabama
Rescue Service at Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama.
In addition to electing the Imperial Klaliff, Robert Thompson, of
Georgia, there was elected the Imperial Kligrapp, W. O. Perkins of
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the Imperial Klabee, Fredrick Smith, of
Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
In addition to electing these three officers, the klonvokation pushed
the sale of insurance under the name of the Heritage Insurance Agency,
Inc. by Robert M. Shelton, the Imperial Wizard^ and others.
On September 5 and 6, 1964, Mr. Edwards again attended a klonvo-
kation at the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel where there was elected the Im-
perial Wizard, Robert M. Shelton, Robert Collins as the Imperial
Klokard, Rev. George Dorsett as Imperial Kludd, the Reverend
Robert Hudgins as the Imperial Kladd, Walter Brown as the Imperial
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2643
Klarogo, Robert Korman as tlie Imperial Klexter, and Amos Pedigo
as the Imperial Night-Hawk.
(Hotel registration marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 2" fol-
lows:)
James Edwards Exhibit No. 2
^_ 65696 I H 65606
JONESBORO LA
9-4 R8
-EASE CHECK YOUR BAGGAGE OH SEND SAME TO YOUR ROOM :OTHERWISE THE HOTEL COMPANY WIl
NOT BE RESPOP4&lS(.E FOR LOSS
DjnMeV-Tutwiler
^^ OtRECTION
DINKLER HOTEL CORPORATION
"DISPCNCCR* OF True aoUTHERN HOSPITALITY"
iUESTS ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT THE COMPANY WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR VALUABLES MONEY
JEWELRY. CLOTHING ETC, UNLESS THE SAME ARE DEPOSITED IN SAFE
State ^Ck.
Pltm / ^^ CityC/ jr/ State
Room No. /q \ •S rIi^ }^' (fi^ Cleric
^ T"''^M 1' W T F S
Mr. Appell. On December 20, 1964, Mr. Edwards applied for Post
Office Box, Drawer K, Hodge, Louisiana. In the application Mr.
Edwards designated the United Klans of America, Inc., to be a fra-
ternal organization.
(Document marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 3" appears on p.
2644.)
Mr. Appell. On April 17, 1965, Mr. Edwards attended a meeting of
imperial officers and other officials of the United Klans of America
and spoke at a rally held in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
On May 24, 1965, along with the Grand Klaliff of the Realm of
Louisiana, he spoke at a rally at Tioga, Louisiana. The Grand Klaliff
at that time. Jack Helm, of New Orleans, was introduced not as a
Klansman but as an official of the Citizens Council of Greater New
Orleans.
(Document previously marked "Jack Helm Exhibit No. 2.'' See
p. 2591.)
Mr. Appell. On June 5, 1965, Mr. Edwards spoke at a United Klans
of America rally and street walk at Atlanta, Georgia.
On July 21, 1965, he spoke at a United Klans of America rally at
Crossroads, Mississippi.
On August 21 and 22, he attended the meeting of the Realm of
North Carolina, where there was also held a meeting of imperial and
other officers of the United Klans of Amei:ica, and during these two
days spoke at a United Klans rally at Landis, North Carolina.
2644 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 3
FOR
fOST OFFICE
USE ON' "
^
POSTMASTUl
IMTC aOX OPtNEO DATC BOX OjOSCD
A^FLICfM^T ^LBASB^NOTE: C&mplclton ot this mpplicmtion aiUntfitta rour willininemt to ootnpty w/th mil pottmi
rulea rolstive to th« ranting mnd u*« of romt Office oof«*
NAME OF APPLICANT (Flint or lypv)
^r A/ ^Oi^///\c^^
NAME OF Firm oh corporation (li hot la renfd lor ua« ol eilhtr)
KINO OF BUSINESS
u a/jTi^^ /:l/)M^ c^r^ /^/^<^/e(^/^ ^ ^/^<^,
,/^/^ /=) TC^/^/Y/i-L ^AC^A^/2:A 7^/ £> ^
BUSINESS ADDRESS (JVo , ftresr, mnd tone)
^4/ ^C^- sT?!
ADDRESS (No , H
HOME ADDRESS (No , Urtel, mnd lone)
/ (TPA^^r ^^<^^o ^
^A^
SiaHATUHE Of APPllfANT
X
OAIE OF APPLICATION
'^/F^j^^.^^.J^.^
I /^/2^^ /d</
a
For Pomt Office Use Only
ENTERED IN DIRECTORY
»
INITIALTOFQLElUt,
INITIALS OF CARRIER BOX NO.
THE FOLLOWING MUST BS COMFLBTBD AND StONBD BEFORE F.O. BOX IS ASSIGNED
OaiVER MAIL IN ACCORDANCE WITH INSTRUCTK3WS CHECKED BELOW
□
ALL EXCEPT SPECIAL rTl ALL INCLUDING SPECIAL
DELIVERY IN BOX M DELIVERY IN BOX
D
ONLY MAIL ADOOrsSED TO BOX IS TO BE PLACED IN FT
ALL OTHER MAIL TO BE DELIVERED AS ADDRESSED.
D
OTHER INSTRUCTIONS
(Biplmin)
»«CiAL DELIVERY MAIL ONLY (Dmlirmr mm ohmckmd bmlow)
D
DELIVER TO LOCAL RESIDENCE AT
D
DQ.IVER TO LOCAL BUSINESS ADDRESS AT
(No., mirmmt, mnd aonm)
(No . mtrmml, mnd ton*)
NAMES OF PERSONS ENTITLED TO RECEIVE MAIL THROUGH BOX {If bot ia rmntmd to * Arm. ino!ud» t ha full nsmmof mmohoftta
a\minb*ra whoam axmil (• to b* placed in boM.)
fyP^L icAMT
\^
HAVE READ ITEMS 1 THROUGH 6. ABOVE AND
WILL COMPLY WITH THEM.
(Signmturm ol mppllomnt)
POD FORM 1 nno
JULY I960 I yJito
APPLICATION FOR POST OFFICE BOX
v.t tavaMmmtm Mivria* wrici 19 — 474M-7
Drawer "K", Hodge, Louisiana
(Document marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 4" appears on p.
2645.)
Mr. Appell. On August 23, 1965, he attended the funeral of the late
Imperial Klonsel, Matt Murphy.
September 15, 16, and 17, Mr. Edwards attended meetings and
rallies in Crockett and Houston, Texas, along with Imperial Wizard
Shelton and Tlieodore Crane, of Virginia, Younger Newton, the
Grand Klaliff of South Carolina.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2645
James Edwards Exhibit No. 4
[ Boise, Idaho, Stateman, Aug. 23, 1965 ]
Dragon Hails
Klan Power
In Elections
LANDIS, N.C. (UPD- South
Carolina Grand Dragon Bob
Scoggin told one of the largest
Ku Klux Klan rallies in recent
jears Saturday night the Klan
^'can elect the next president of
the United States."
Scoggin, one of 11 state grand
1 dragons addressing a crowd es-
ifmated by sheriff's deputies at
3,500 to 4,000 said "President
Johnson is afraid of the Klan"
'and that the Klan cpuld play a
I big role in the 1968 election
;"if we will."
In addition to S'coggin an*
mperial Wizard Robert Shel-
ton of Alabama, others address-
ing the rally included Grand
Dragons E. L. McDaniel of
Mississippi, Bob Jones of North
Carolina, Calvin Craig' of Geor-
gia, Don Cofhran of Florida,
Roy Frankhouser of Pennsyl-
.vania, Ralph Pryor of Dela-
Iware, Flynn Harvey of Ohio,
J George Otto of Texas, Dr. J. M.
lEdwards of Louisiana and Ray-
mond Anderson of Tennessee.
1 Anderson said the reason he
is a Klansman was to prevent
the Communists from taking
over the country. He charged
that if that happened, all the
churches would be burned and
that United Nations troops
^ould be patrolling the streets.
*r"
While in Texas, Mr. Edwards met and conferred with William H.
Drennan and George A. Otto, Texas Klan coleaders.
Mr. Edwards, during the period of May , 1964, to 10-12-65, received
$1,517.64 in checks drawn against the account of the Bernice Sports-
man Club and/or Louisiana Rescue Service.
(Documents marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 5." A listing of
checks and one check from each accoimt appears on pp. 2646, 2647.)
Mr. Appell. February 19, 1965, Mr. Edwards requested the Louisi-
ana State Joint Legislative Committee on Un-American Activities to
investigate the Klan and make findings public. He answered ques-
tions propounded by the committee counsel on April 23, 1965.
On February 18 and March 29 of 1965, Mr. Edwards addressed
letters to Chairman Willis of the Committee on Un-American Activ-
ities urging an investigation of the United Klans of America and
requestmg the report of its findings to be made public.
Mr. Edwards was in contact with Imperial Wizard Shelton during
the committee's hearings in November of 1965.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Edwards pos-
sesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to
this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting
remedial legislation.
The CiiAiR^iAN. Sir, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator.
You now liave the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment, to confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to
explain any part of that statement.
2646 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 5
Bank of Bernlce, Bernlce, La.
Bernlce Sportsman Club and Louisiana Rescue Service Accounts
J. M. Edwards Checks
Date of
Check
Payee
Amount
Endorsers
Remarks
5/3/64
J. M. Edwards
$27.55
Credit account of J. M. Edwards
6/4/64
1. .. ,,
19.52
II ,1 „ II II n
-a>i^
7/1/64
II II 11
43.00
J. M. Edwards
i.*!?:^—.
7/16/64
II II II
115.75
II II II
8/21/64
n 1.
50.69
1, 1.
8/21/64
II II II
67.44
J. M. Edwards; Dub Morton's Dixie Dandy
#1, G. W. Horton, Jonesboro, La.
9/18/64
II II II
63.83
J. M. Edwards
Travel
11/11/64
II I" II
63.96
J. M. Edwards; Skolly Service,
Jonesboro, La.
12/2/64
II M 1.
37.07
J. M. Edwards
Part pay
12/6/64
II 1. II
23.00
II II 1.
P P
12/14/64
II II
8.73
II 1,
Bal.
12/22/64
II II II
38.91
J. M. Edwards; Illegible
Travel
1/20/65
II II II
41.49
Illegible; Tuloma, Inc., General Gas
Corporation, General Gas Division.
2/22/65
62.23
Dr. James M. Edwards, Jonesboro
Chiropractic Clinic
Travel
3/12/65
109.67
J. M. Edwards
4/19/65
47.00
,1 .,
5/1/65
86.30
J. M. Edwards; Tuloma, Inc., General
Gas Corporation, General Gas Division
Travel
5/18/65
50.00
J. M. Edwards
6/10/65
75.00
II II
7/3/65
50.00
II II
7/8/65
55.00
II II
Travel
7/26/65
70.00
II II
8/13/65
91.50
II II
8/27/65
70.00
•1 II
9/27/65
75.00
,1 1,
10/12/65
Total $1
75.00
Dr. James M. Edwards, Jonesboro
Chiropractic Clinic
,517.64
In addition you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com-
mittee may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ?
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. I will say to you, therefore, in the absence of re-
buttal on your part, or other facts wliich may come to the attention
of the committee, that the committee will rely upon the accuracy of
its investigation.
Bearing this in mind have you anything to say ?
Mr. Edwari>s. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Senner. Is it possible to get in the record at this point the
letter written to you by Mr. Edwards ?
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, I have several photographs in front of
me which picture you at a rally of the ITnited Klans of America held
April 17, 1965. I ask you whether or not this rally was a rally of
convenience, and that the main reason for you and other Klan officials
assembling in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, around April 17, 1965, was because
I had just a few days prior thereto interviewed Imperial Wizard
Shelton, and that the real purpose for your being there was to discuss
strategy that you should follow in the event of being subpenaed before
the committee.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2647
James Edwards Exhibit No. 5 — Continued
Bco»itct La -^ /3 .19hJ^no
-♦•♦H Hank iw IIkiixihi': h-^-imi
2 7
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
(Photographs marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 6." Two of
said photographs appear on pp. 2648, 2649 ; balance retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, I will hand to you two letters addressed
to Honorable Edwni E. Willis, Ohairman, HUAC, Washington, D.C.,
the first dated February 18, 1965, return address 426 Sixth Street,
Jonesboro, Louisiana, signed J. M. Edwards, Grand Dragon, United
Klans of America, Inc.
Mr. Chairman, I ask that these and all other documents referred
to be made part of this record, and for that reason I shall only read
the portions relative to an inquiry by this committee.
The letter of February 18 reads :
Mr. Willis. I will welcome an investigation of the United Klans of America,
Inc. in Louisiana and will cooperate in any way possible. If I may make one
request it would be this : Please name the si>ecific Klan organization, United
Klans of America, Inc. along with the others. I would also like included in
the reports your findings relative to the NAACP, CORE, COFO, and SCEF.
Thanks for the tine service you are performing, Mr. Willis, and if I can be
of any assistance please call upon me.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 21
2648 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 6
Photo taken at United Klans of America rally, April 17, 1965, Tuscaloosa, Ala. From
left to right are: Robert Shelton, Raymond Anderson, Dr. J. M. Edwards, Matthew
Murphy, and Edward L. McDaniel.
The letter of March 29, 1965 :
Since the president's recent indictment of men said to be members of this
organization, and that without due process of law, I urge you, Mr. Willis, to
investigate United Klans and make your findings public as soon as possible.
It would seem, that by virtue of the February resolution to investigate the
Klan, that another decision to do so would not be necessary.
Thanks for your kind consideration, and may God bless you in every honorable
endeavor.
Please insert this letter in the Congressional Record.
Signed "J. M. Edwards — Grand Dragon."
I hand you these two letters, Mr. Edwards, and ask you if you in
fact mailed these or signed those letters.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 7"' appear on
pp. 2650, 2651.)
Mr. Appell. a Joint Legislative Committee on Un-Ajuerican Ac-
tivities of the State of Ix>uisiana, according to an official report,
conducted a staff interview with J. M. Edwards commencing at 11 :42
p.m. on April 23, 1965. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that you are the J. M. Edwards with whom
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2649
James Edwards Exhibit No. 6 — Continued
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Photo taken at United Klans of America rally, April 17, 1965, Tuscaloosa, Ala. From
left to right are: Raymond Anderson, Robert Shelton, Robert Scoggin, Robert Creel,
Don Cothran, J. M. Edwards, and Calvin Craig.
this consultation was held and that the Q and A reproduced in the
committee's findings are the answers or your statements.
The Chairinian. You mean the questions and answers?
Mr. AppEiLL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In response to a question you were asked, "Do you
do any screening of people to keep out undesirable elements or people
who might have criminal records, or anything like that?" the answer
is : "The very best that is possible to do."
Isn't it a fact. Dr. Edwards, as Grand Dragon, that while you
provide for certain regulations in order to guarantee that undesir-
ables not get in your organization, in fact you do no screening and
that you take in anyone ?
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. The next question: "What do you do after you have
gotten members in if you hnd out that they are involved in violations
of law ?" The record reflects no answer.
Tlien the question : "How do you take care of that, how do you
handle tliat within your organization?"
"^Any member or any person, for that matter, Avhose unlawful acts
come to the attention of our people are reported to the proper authori-
2650 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 7
''"241965
Hon. ^dwin S. Willis
Ctairi^ian, HUAC
Washirititon, D.C.
425 Sixth Street
Jonesboro, Lcuisian?
February 18, 1965
D;3ar CcngreGS-Tian '.Villis;
Undar datslina V/ashington and AP wira, Shrafroport Times Saturday,
February 13, 1965 was an article -.vhich stated ^thfet t)-'9 faoamittea
last week adopted unaniLiously a resolution authorizing chairnan
Jldwin 2, V.'illis, D-La. to *continua preliminary inquiries' into
matters that had bjen brcuglit to the attention of the committee.
The four organizations are specifically includid, alt^oug^ thejr
are not na:aed in the resolution." (This last statement -^uzzles •-. .^
OS . )
Uo\:, the four organizations named in the aP articla are "The Ku
Kluz Elan, the -Minut e.-nen, G^crgj Linc&ln RockA'ell's A;nerican Nazi
Party., arc" tiij Black L(Iuslims."_
I'k . V.'illis, I urn one of the "Southern whites" having "such titles
as Grand Dragon" and the order .vhich I represent is the United
Klans of rjnerica, Inc., ILnights of the l>u Klux Klan. I have great
adr.iration for your cc:nittee, and I thank you for your untiring
efforts to Leap ijnerica safe. I regret that your burden is being
increased by now having to investigate the Ku Llux Klcn.
ivlr . iVillis, I .';ill welcome an investigation of the United Klans of
Aneric?, Inc. in Louisi'^na and .vlll cooperate in any way possible.
If I may loake one request it would be this: Plsase name the speci-
fic Klan orginization, United I-lans of America, Inc. along v.'ith the
others. I would also like included in the report jyrur findings
relative to the l^IAACP, CCKj], COFC , and SC^F.
Thanks for the fine servic3 you ^re performing, Mir. '."/illis, end if
I caaibe of any assistance please call upon me.
Yours for God and Country,
Sm/vh
J.. I. jd\^"rds- -Grand Dragon ,
United Klans of ikmeric3',Ian<«.
ties. Our organization does not harbor those who commit unlawful
acts."
Dr. Edwards, I give you an opportmiity at this time to name one
member of the United Klans of America tliat you ha\e ever turned
over to lawful autliority because of their violation of the law.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Documents marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 8." See pp. 2655-
2663.) ^
The Chairmax. Dr. Edwards, do the various Klaverns over which
you preside in your Realm of Louisiana have Avrecking crews that
perf omi the functions described this morning by Mr. Gipson ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2651
James Edwards Exhibit No. 7 — Continued
Hon. Edwin E. Wiliia 426 Sixth Street
Chairman, hUAC Joneaboro, Louisiana
Washington, D.C. March 29, 1965
Dear Sir;
On February 16, 1965 I wrote you concerning a resolution passed u
unanimously by your comraltLed to invistigate the flan. I invited
an investigation of United Klans of America, Inc. and shortly '
therefifter received an affirmative reply.
Meanwhile, President Johnson has publicly assailed tha hlan end
made serious charges against men said to be affiliates, and that
before any trial and conviction.
Now, HUT. -Villis, that should frighten you and 3V3ry member of
Congress who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution of the
United States of America.
Under UPl dateline Sunday, i^iarch 26, 1965 I not a that "Hap. ;idwin
£. Willis, D-La . , has promisecl that Lis House Committee on Un-
Amarlcan Activtles will meet early next week to decide whether to
begin a full scale investigation of the Klan."
Sinco the president's recent indictment of men said to be members
of this organization, and that withoujb due process of law, I urge
you, Mr. Willis, to investigate United Klans and make your findings
public as soon as possible.
It would seeM, that by virtue of the February resolution to investi-
gate the Klan, that another decision to do so would not toe necessary^
Thanks for your kind consideration, end may God ble?? you in every
honorable endeavor.
Please insert this letter in the Congressional Record.
Sincerely,
J.M.^ Sd war d8-_-Gj:-andpr agon
United "Pci an s of AmerTca , Inc.
SU£iyh Realm of Louisiana
(continued)
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, it is already in the record that the Realm
of Louisiana helped finance the defense of Klansmen involved in the
murder of Dr. Penn in Georgia. Can you reconcile this testimony
with the financial contribution that you made toward their defense?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, Dr. Edwards, under the oath
which members of your organization take, it would be a violation
2652 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
of your oath to turn them over to authorities except if they liad com-
mitted the crimes of treason, rape, or murder. Isn't that factual?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appbll. In the record [of the Joint Legislative Committee on
Un-American Activities] you were asked, "Have you ever had oc-
casion, as yet, to turn over any law violators to the local police author-
ities in any area? Do you know of any specific incident where this has
been done?"
Answer: "I cannot speak for any area outside of Louisiana, but I
am very happy to report that it has not come to my attention."
I give you an opportunity as Grand Dragon of the Realm of
Louisiana to state that no Klansman to your knowledge has engaged
in the violation of law.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. It was brought out by the chairman, Mr. Edwards, on
last Friday, I believe, that members of the United Klans of America
in the Baton Eouge, Louisiana, area, are placing applications for
membership in the United Klans of America and other United Klan
literature in post office boxes in that city. I ask you as the Grand
Dragon if you are going to make an investigation of this violation
of law and report those Klansmen to the postal authorities.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, in the Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Advo-
cate^ an article which appeared May 25, 1965, relates to an incident
that happened at a United Klans of America rally held at Tioga,
Louisiana. I shall read this short clipping into the record before
asking you a question :
The invocation was brief and jolting at the Ku Klux Klan rally here over the
weekend.
Dr. J. M. Edwards of Jonesboro, a chiropractor who heads the Klan in Louisi-
ana, called for a minister from the audience to step forth and lead the invocation.
An unidentified man stepped to the microphone and, as the Klansmen and
spectators bowed their heads, he said :
"I don't see how you, in the name of Jesus Christ, can conduct hatred for all
man."
Did that happen, sir?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "James Edwards Exhibit No. 9" and retained in
committee files. See also Jack Helm Exhibit No. 2, p. 2591.)
The Chairman. Sir, in your sworn testimony before tlie Ix)uisiiina
body referred to by Mr. Apj^ell a while ago, did you tell the truth.
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth because it appears that you
did speak on that occasion.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, during the recitation of the results of
the committee's investigation it was set forth as a matter of fact that
you attended the klonvokation held in Februaiy 1964 at the Dinkler-
Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, and that discussed at the klonvoka-
tion was the creation of an insurance program.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2653
I hand you a letter addressed to Mr. Robert Shelton from David F.
Stinson, return address Jonesboro, Louisiana, addressed, "Dear Bob,"
in which Mr. Stinson asks if he might head up the insurance program
in Louisiana. This letter was sent to the insurance company which
was going to handle the life and health and accident part of the pro-
gram, and there is contained in handwriting at the bottom of this
letter the following language: "Write this man a [sic] make Arrange-
ments for meeting with Dr. Edwards to set up Insurance Program for
La. Bob."
I hand you this and ask you if you conferred with this man and
whether or not there was set up within Louisiana an insurance
program.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 14."
See p. 1649.)
Mr. Appell. At the State rally held in North Carolina and the
meeting of imperial and other officers, together with the meeting
which elected officers for the State of North Carolina, I put it to you
as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that there was present
at that meeting Dan Burros of New York and Roy Frankhouser of
Pennsylvania.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge of their and other United
Klans of America members' and leaders' affiliation with the American
Nazi Party ?
Mr. Edwards. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairmax. Sir, in the format of your oath of allegiance, I
find the following, which oath is taken by all members, including your-
self, I assume : "I swear that I will keep secure to myself a secret of a
[Klan]*sman when same is committed to me in the sacred bond of
[Klan]*smanship— the crime of violating THIS solemn oath"— that
is all in caps — "treason against the United States of America— rape^—
and malicious murder — alone excepted."
Since you use in that oath the words "malicious murder," is there
any kind of murder to which this oath does not apply ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. I want to read to the witness title 18, United States
Code, section 1505, which provides as follows :
Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or
communication, endeavors to influence, intimidate, or impede any witness in any
proceeding pending before any department or agency of the United States, or
2654 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
in connection with any inquiry or investigation being had by either House, or
any committee of either House, or any joint committee of the Congress ; or
Whoever injures any party or witness in his person or property on account of
his attending or having attended such proceeding, inquiry, or investigation, or
on account of his testifying or having testified to any matter pending therein ; or
*******
Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or com-
munication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct,
or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which such pro-
ceeding is being had before such department or agency of the United States, or
the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which such inquiry or
investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or
any joint committee of the Congi-ess —
Shall be find not more than $5,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or
both.
The reason I read that to you is because of two things. If you are
up here testifying before this committee in fear of your life or in fear
of bodily injury or any fear that you might have, you may be assured
that this law applies to you and you will be protected if you care to
answer any questions or add anything to this inquiry or give any infor-
mation to this committee that you can. If that, is not the case, then I
read it to you for the second purpose : In your job, if you go back to
Louisiana as the Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America,
Realm of Louisiana, you can take that message back to your member-
ship and tell them that is what the law^ is and that this committee in-
tends to see that the witnesses appearing before this committee will not
be harmed and that we will enforce this law\
Have you any further statement to make ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds prevously stated.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I do not have any questions, but in
view of this witness' eagerness to see the investigation by this com-
mittee of this organization, the United Klans of America, I am some-
Avhat baffled at his reluctance at the present time.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Edwards, do you really believe you have cooper-
ated with this committee pursuant to the letters you sent to the
chairman ?
Mr, Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Senner. Did you intend to mislead the chairman when you
wrote those letters?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr, Senner. Did you do it for just public consumption and public
opinion ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Senner. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. Sir, since you mentioned in those letters other orga-
nizations, do you care to say anything about them ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell, call your next witness.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2655
Mr. Appell. Mr. Douglas Byrd.
Mr. Blackwell. Mr. Chairman, I am Charles Blackwell, attorney
for Mr. Byrd, from Laurel, Mississippi. Mr. Chairman, I have a letter
from Mr. Byrd's doctor that he is in the hospital and he will be there
for about a week or 10 days. Would you like me to read the letter, Mr.
Chairman ?
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the committee consider
the contents of this letter and that we advise Mr. Blackwell tomorrow
morning as to the disposition of the committee with respect to it.
The Chairman. All right.
The committee w411 stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morn-
ing.
(Members present at time of recess: Representatives Willis, Pool,
Weltner, and Ashbrook, of the subcommittee, and also Representative
Senner.)
(Whereupon, at 4:25 p.m., Tuesday, January 11, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, January 12, 1966.)
[James Edw^ards Exhibit No. 8, introduced on p. 2650, follows :]
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8
[Excerpt from June 16, 1965, hearings before The Joint Legislative Committee on Un-American
Activities of Louisiana held in Baton Rouge, La. Hon. Jesse M. Knowles, chairman; Jack N.
Rogers, Committee counsel. Report No. 7, July 26, 1965.]
* -X- Mr * Mr * *
TRANSCRIPT OF A STAFF CONSULTATION HELD ON
APRIL 28. 1065, AT 11 :42 P.M., AT BATON ROUGE. LOUISIANA.
JACK N. R0(;ERS, ESQ., COMMITTEE COUNSEL FOR THE
JOINT LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIV-
ITIFS, STATE OF LOUISIANA, PRESIDING.
LY MR. ROGERS:
Pursuant to the power granted me under Senate Concurrent
Rc.«ilution irl2. Regular Session of the Louisiana Legislatui-e of 1964,
and the rules of this Committee under the Law, I now swear the first
witness.
THE WITNESS, MR. J. M. EDWARDS. AFTER FIRST
HAVING BEEN DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE
WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. SO HELP
HLM t;OD. TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
V.Y MR. ROGERS:
(} — What is your name, sir?
2656 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8 — Continued
A — J. M. Edwards.
Q — Where do you live, Mr. Edwards?
A — Jonesboro, Louisiana.
Q — When and where were you born?
A — July 20, 1918, in Union Parish, Louisiana.
Q — What do you do for a living? \^
A — I practice Chiropractic.
Q — Mr. Edwards, what is the name of the Klan Organization
you represent?
A — It's the United Klans of America, Inc.
Q — What is the title of your Klan office, and what level of
leadership does that title mean?
A — The office that I have in the United Klans is that of Grand
Dragon of the realm of Louisiana, and it designates the highest office
in the State in which that Klan operates.
Q — Is your Klan Organization connected with any other Klan
Organizations, and if so, which one and how is it connected?
A — It is not connected with any other Klan Organization.
Q — Who is the national head of your Klan Organization?
A — Robert M. Shelton, Jr.
Q — Where does he live ?
A — Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Q— As I understand your testimony, you are the head of the
organization in the State of Louisiana?
A — Yes, sir.
Q — How and by whom are the objectives of your organization
determined?
A — By the membership itself.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8— Continued
2657
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Exhibit 9. Letter from Mr. J. M. Edward*, Grand Dragon, United Klan» of
America, Inc. in Louisiana.
2658 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE V.9>.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8 — Continued
Q — What process is used to determine policy or oljjectives?
A — A democratic assembly, Mr. Rogers.
Q — Is your organization connected in any way with the Com-
munist Party, or any other foreign party, agency or government?
A — No, sir, it is not.
Q — Is any pledge or oath of allegiance required of all of your
members?
A — Yes, indeed.
Q — Does this oath in any way infringe upon, or negate, complete
loyalty to the Constitution .of the United States?
A — No. Mr. Rogers, did you say "infringe or negate?"
Q — Does the oath which your members take infringe upon their
loyalty to the United States, or negate in any way their loyalty to
the United States?
A — No, sir, that oath does not.
Q — Would you explain that, please?
A — (No answer.)
Q — Can you give me the oath?
A — I will explain that, Mr. Rogers. The oath swears unqualified
allegiance to the government of the United States of America, its
Constitution and laws. May I just quote the section which has to do
with allegiance?
Q — Go right ahead.
A — "I most solemnly assert and affirm that to the government
of the United States of America, and any State thereof of which I
may become a resident, I sacredly swear an unqualified allegiance
above any and every kind of government in the whole world. I here
and now pledge life, property, vote and sacred honor to uphold its
flag, its Constitution, and Constitutional Laws, and will protect,
defend and enforce same unto death."
Q — Mr. Edwards, what is the policy of your organization as to
law violations? Is there anything in your oath concerning this?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2659
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8— Continued
A — The attitude of the Order concerning law violations is the
same as it would be on the part of any good American citizen.
I repeat that for you: "I most solemnly promise and swear that I
will always, at all times» and in all places, help, aid, and assist the
duly constituted officers of the law, in the proper performance of
their legal duties."
Q — What are the qualifications for membership in your organi-
zation?
A — He must be a white man, a Protestant person who believes
In the tenets of the Christian Religion, and of sane mind, of course.
Q — Do you do any screening of people to keep out undesirable
elements or people who might have criminal records, or anything like
that?
A — The very best that it is possible to do.
Q — What do you do after you have gotten members in if you
find out that they are involved in violations of law?
A — (No answer.)
Q — How do you take care of that, how do you handle that within
your organization?
A— Any member or any person, for that mattei', whose unlawful
acts come to the attention of our people are reported to th^ proper
authorities. Our organization does not harbor those who ( < niinit
unlawful acts.
Q — Are they allowed to remain in the organization?
A — No, sir, this Order does not provide for a person who con-
ducts himself contrary to the tenets of the law he has sworn to
uphold, rather than to violate. As soon as any act of unlawfulness
is discovered on the part of a member of this Order, he is immediately
expelled.
Q — Approximately how many members do you have in the State
of Louisiana, Mr. Edwards?
A — I am not at liberty to answer that question, Mr. Rogers.
Q — Can you tell us how many local Klaverns you have in Lou-
isiana?
2660 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8 — Continued
A — No, sir, I am not at liberty to reveal that.
Q — Why is that, are you sworn under some oath not to reveal
that?
A — Yes, sir.
Q — What are the objectives of your organization?
A — The objectives of this Order shall be to unite all white male
per.sons, native-born gentiles of the United States who owe no al-
legiance of any nature to any other government, nation, institution,
ruler, sect or people; to unite people whose morals are good, whose
reputations and vocations are respectable, whose habits are exemplary,
who are of .^ound mind, and 21 years of age or more, to a common
oath of brotherhood of strict regulations, and also to cultivate
and promote patriotism toward our civil government.
Q — After you unite them, is the function of the organization di-
rected solely at improving yourselves, the members, or do you have
some outward manifestation of your objectives?
A — Certainly it has as its objective to improve the individual, and
I think this is best done by virtue of the fact that we hold Christ
hini.self as our criterion of character, and never in a Klavern meeting
will a person stay without hearing the name of Christ proclaimed,
and His principles sounded. Then in the community, I think that you
will find it hard to determine any difference in the works of the
people in this Order and in any other civic service, or social organiza-
tion, because I think the efforts overlap in every one of these areas.
• Q — Do your members aim, and are the objectives of your organi-
zation in any way directed, toward political action?
A — No, sir, I couldn't say that they are directed toward political
action, but certainly men with these objectives would participate in
governmental affairs; that's a responsibility of any citizen.
Q — How do you propose to realize the objectives that you have
set forth here, by any means other than education?
A — What other means are there?
Q — What is the attitude of your organization toward violence?
. A — A member of this Order is not going to engage in violence.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2661
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8 — Continued
Q — Ey that you mean a member who sincerely ascribes to the
basic tenets of the Order, or do you mean a person who mi^ht have
associated himself with you cynically?
A — A person miy^ht have associated himself with this Order for
the sole purpose of brin^niiK iisrespect, or brinK'in^' it into disre|»ute,
but if he ascribed to these tenets, the violence he might enter into
automatically would suspend him from membership in the Order.
Q — Have you any built-in system of protection by investigation,
or surveillance, or anything of this nature, to protect yourselves from
people who might commit acts of violence using the existence of your
organization as a "cover" for their criminal acts?
A — Would you repeat that question?
Q — Yes. what protection have you got built into your procedure,
or your ritual, or your functioning of your organization, to protect
your organization from acts-of-violence committed by outsiders using
the existence of your Organization as a "cover" for what they do?
A — There is no way a person could be connected with the Order
while engaging iii acts-of-violence.
Q_Why is this?
A — Because the regalia that identifies a member is not worn out-
side of the rituals, except, I must say this, in the organized public
meetings where ceremonial ritual teams enact certain rituals
w here the significance of this ritual is narrated from a platform. It is
dune in public, .md there are other instances, of course, such as street
walkings, etc., l)ut tliey are done in regalia in the light of day before
tlie public, and certainly no acts-of-violence are permitted by those
people. W'c are non-violent people. Does that answer your question,
sir?
Q — Yes, it does.
A — Mr. Rogers, may I add further in connection with attaining
our objectives, that whai we do is done entirely within the framework
of the law, utilizing every legitimate method available to us, and
tolerating absolutely no person conducting him.self in any manner that
might be construed to be beyond the framework of our duly con-
stituted laws.
Q — Have you ever had occasion, as yet, to turn over any law-
2662 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8 — Continued
violators to the local police authorities in any area? Do you know of
any specific incident where this has been done?
A — I cannot speak for any area outside of Louisiana, but I am
very happy to report that it has not come to my attention.
Q — Mr. Edwards, how are your officers of the Klan elected at the
different levels?
A — Through a democratic process, by the membership.
Q — How do you get elected to the office which you hold?
A — By the same process, it is not a dictatorial organization, Mr.
Rogers.
Q — Are you elected by popular vote of all the members in the
Slate, or are you elected by a Board which is elected by the members
throughout the State?
A — No, sir, perhaps like people are elected on the national level,
by delegates representing a certain number of people.
Q — Have you any control as Grand Dragon of the State of Lou-
isiana over the local Klaverns?
A — Only through the people who are elected to maintain the
order in those Klaverns.
Q — Do you have any veto power over the chosen officers of the
local Klavern?
A — In case their conduct is contrary to the oath and the Con-
stitution.
Q— You do?
A — Yes, sir, in that case.
Q — Have you any disciplinary powers available to you over the
members in the local Klavern, if you had learned that something had
gone on which was contrary to your basic rules? Could you do any-
thing about it if the local Klavern officers did not?
A — Yes, sir.
Q — Do you actively maintain responsibility over the local Kla-
verns to the best of your ability?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2663
James Edwards Exhibit No. 8— Continued
A — Yes, sir, I do.
Q — Will you furnish the Committee with samp)les of the literature
and printed materials used by your organization in this educational
program which you have described to me?
A — Yes, sir. 1 would be happy to, I have some copies available.
Q — Is there anything, Mr. Edwards, that you would like to add
to your testimony?
A — Mr. Rogers, I don't believe there is. I would like to add one
thing, however, that in the United Klans of America, Inc., we operate
according to a Committee System wherein we attempt to utilize the
potential of every person in our Order, regardless of whatever his
gift might be.
Q — What different committees do you have in a local Klavern?
A — Well, of course, as I said a while ago, we don't engage in
politics as such, but we do concern ourselves with governmental af-
fairs, and I believe that that is one of the most basic committees that
we have. We have a religious activities committee, education com-
mittee, woniens' organizations, we have a civic committee, sick and
welfare, publicity, grievance, to mention a few.
Q — Is there anything other than this that you would like to add
to your testimony, Mr. Edwards?
A — I believe that's just about all I have to say, Mr. I'.oger.s, unless
there are some other questions.
Q — I have no other questions for you at this time, and 1 would
appreciate your giving us the printed materials to which >()U have
referred already. Thank you, Mr. Edwards for giving ns this time.
This i.s- the end of the Staff Consultation, the time is 12:18 A.M.
****** :f.->!<
WITNESS EXCUSED
********
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 22
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 12, 1966
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D.G.
public hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 10 :45 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House
Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman)
presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E, Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of
Georgia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Weltner,
and Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel ; and Donald T. Appell, chief investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order,
Mr. Appell, call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, before calling the first witness the
staff desires to make a statement for the record based upon its investi-
gation, and in view of the fact that with the start of today's hearings
the committee's inquiry will deal with Klan organizations in the State
of Mississippi.
Klans in Mississippi have as their origin in the modern day the
action on the part of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Louisiana when J. D. Swenson, the National Kleagle of that organiza-
tion, went across the river into Mississippi and recruited into the
Original Knights, the Realm of Mississippi, citizens of the State of
Mississippi.
Soon after this happened a split occurred over what Klansmen felt
to be the unnecesary enrichment of Mr. Swenson through initiation fees
and t\\Q profits made on the sale of robes, and they split away from this
organization with many of them being banished from the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
The cadre of tlie Original Knights of Mississippi were basically the
ones that founded what was in the early part of 1964 the largest Klan
organization in Mississippi, which is known as the Wliite Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
2665
2666 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
This organization grew, and certain leaders of the White Knights
defected from that organization and became the leadersliip of the
United KLans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Khix KLan, headed
by Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton and known witliin Mississippi as
the Mississippi Rescue Service.
The investigation from its very start, Mr. Chairman, has been very
confused because Klansmen, while remaining Klansmen, have shifted
from the A^^lite Knights to the UKA, and in most recent days we
have learned of two Klaverns of the United Klans of America switch-
ing back to the White Knights.
The White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is unique as an autono-
mous Klan organization in that its constitution and the oath wliich
it administers to its members do not follow the standard pattern of
the Klan of 1915, from which most of the modern day Klans adopt
their constitutions, their rituals, and their oaths.
The constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan divides
this organization into two branches of a legislature — the senate, which
they call their Klonvocation, and their lower house which they call
the Klanburgesses.
The executive department of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan is headed by an Imperial Wizard, whom the investigation es-
tablished to be Safn Holloway Bowers, Jr., of Laurel, Mississippi;
a Grand Dragon, Julius Harper; a grand giant, Billy Buckles; a
grand chaplain, who in the early days was Paul Foster, and who later
was replaced by Petus G. Bilbo; the grand director of the Klan
Bureau of Investigation, who in the early days was Mr. Ernest S.
Gilbert and who is now a king kleagle for the United Klans of
America.
The organizational structure of the White Knights is divided into
five districts, which compare to the congressional districts of Members
of Congress from the State of Mississippi, and this division is divided
into nine provinces.
Each of these provinces has in its leadership a province giant and
a province KBI. These province giants and province KBI's are mem-
bers of the cabinet of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
The constitution under Article II sets forth the authority of the
Imperial Wizard, and in Section 17 of Article II it sets forth the
duties of the province giant and the KBI.
In this connection, Mr. Chairman, I Avould like the record to dis-
close that under the constitution it is reported that all projects which
arise in a Klavern or in the Klan which are of —
a Great Magnitude or Complex in Nature shall be forwarded through the Chain
of Command to the Imperial Wizard, who shall seek the advice and counsel of all
Grand OflBcers.
Investigation and sworn executive testimony, Mr. Chairman, show
that projects of great magnitude and of complex nature refer to
official projects adopted by the Klan, known as Projects 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Project 1 is a threatening telephone call, or visits.
Project 2 is the burning of a cross, usually on private property.
Project 3 is beatings or floggings, burning of property, wild shoot-
ing into property, and bombings.
Project 4 is extermination.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2667
The constitution provides for a judicial department headed by a
chief klanjustice and four other klanjustices, a finance department,
which is^ headed by a chief khibursar, and four additional klabursars.
The Klaverns and the officers within the Klavern follow the normal
oro^anizational structure of a Klan Klavern except that in the White
Knights the Klavern officers include a klepeer, who is the Klavern
representatives to the Klanburgesses.
The constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is
unique to other constitutions because, while it requires of its members
an oath which pledges absolute obedience to the White Knights con-
stitution and its laws, the member swears allegiance to the Constitu-
tion of the United States only as originally written.
The oaths of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan do not pro-
vide, as do the other Klan oaths which the committee has dealt with,
in that the other oaths provide that a Klansman shall keep secret
to himself the secret of a fellow Klansman except in the case of treason
against the United States, rape, and malicious murder.
In the case of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, their consti-
tution provides that a man guilty of those three offenses is not eligible
for membership, but their constitution provides that a secret of a
Klansman shall be kept secret, period.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to call the staff's first -witness, Gordon
Lackey.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly sw^ear that the testimony you are about to give in
this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so helf) you God ?
Mr. Lackey. I do.
The Chairman. Mr. Blackwell, at the conclusion of the hearings
yesterday, in response to a call for Douglas Byrd, Route 1, Liberty,
Mississippi, to take the stand, you presented in his behalf a medical
statement.
This statement, on the letterhead of The Field Clinic, Centreyille,
Mississippi, and signed by Dr. John Y. Gibson advised the committee
that Byrd was confined at the Field Memorial Community Hospital
because of a back condition. It was the doctor's position that Mr.
Byrd Avould require 1 week to 10 days of hospital care.
In light of the medical statement, I request that you advise your
client, Mr. Bvrd, to appear before the committee at 10 a.m., Januaiy
19, 1966.
NoW', Mr. Blackwell, if consultation with Dr. Gibson indicates that
Mr. Byrd, for reasons of his physicial disability, is unable to appear
at that time, I hope you will notify the connnittee of that.
Mr. Blackw'ell. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF GORDON MIMS LACKEY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUN-
SEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES G. BLACKWELL
Mr. Appell. State your full name, please.
Mr. Lackey. My full name is Gordon Mims Lackey.
Mr. Appell. Your last name is spelled L-a-c-k-e-y ?
Mr. Lackey. That is correct, sir.
2668 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, are you appearing here in accordance
with a subpena served upon you by John D. Sullivan on November 5,
1965, at 412 W. Park Avenue, Greenwood, Mississippi?
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir ; that is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Buckley. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi, Post Office Box 411.
Mr. Appell. And the additional counsel?
Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law, 790 North-
wood Drive, Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, under the conditions of the subpena served
upon you and attachment thereto, which was made part of the subpena,
you were commanded to bring with you and to produce to the com-
mittee documents called for in the subpena, paragraph 1, which reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and aflBliated organizations, namely the
Mississippi Constitutional Council in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as the past or present Kleagle at Large,
and/or Special Investigator to the Imperial Wizard of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Lackey, I ask that you produce those documents in the repre-
sentative capacity set forth in the subpena.
The Chairman. Before that, Mr, Lackey, I ask your counsel if it
is a fact and whether they will stipulate that you are familiar with
the opening statement I made October 19, last year, outlining the gen-
eral purposes, objectives, and the reasons for this hearing.
Mr. Buckley. Mr. Chairman, I do so stipulate.
The Chairman. Thank you.
I did not want to direct the question to your client, but you are
speaking for your client in this instance?
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "Will you produce the documents, Mr. Lackey?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I am sorry but I cannot produce such records as
ordered by the subpena issued me. due to the fact that such records were
and are not in my possession, custody, or control and I do not have
access to such documents.
Mr. Appell. Mr, Lackey, in the representative capacity set forth in
y
the subpena, did you possess such documents
Mr. Lackey. Would you repeat the question, sir ?
Mr. Appell. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph
1 of your subpena, did you possess such records ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, Avith all sincerity, I respectfully decline to answer
that question and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed me by
the 5th, the 1st, and the 14th amendments of the Constitution of the
United States of America, sir.
The Chairman. 1 am afraid I do not follow the position of the
witness. He is represented by able counsel, of course.
Mr. Appell, try to be very attentive, because the witness took one
|)osition and then another under his asserted constitutional rights.
Will you repeat your first question ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 2669
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I ask you to produce those documents
wliicli are enumerated in paragraph 1 of the attachment to your
sub])ena.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I am extremely sorry, but I could not produce
such records as were ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the
fact that such records were and are not in my possession, custody, or
control and I did not have access to any such documents.
The Chairman. Are you now saying, sir, that as an individual you
did not have possession, custody, or control or access to these docu-
ments ?
I ask that in view of what you said in response to the second question.
If your counsel wants to explain your position, your exact legal
position, I will accept that instead of its coming from you, but I
cannot quite distinguish between your first answer and your second
answer because, I call attention to you and your counsel, the subpena
on the face of it calls for you to produce those documents in your
representative capacities, and Mr. Appell made the request of you in
your representative capacities.
Are you distinguishing between the two ?
Mr. Buckley. Mr. Chairman, would you like me to explain it ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Buckley. I think I can say simply this: His position, his re-
sponse to the original question, is simply that it was not within his
power, and it has not been within his power, to comply with the
subpena. He could not comply with it. It was not within his power
to so do. In other words, he does not have any contempt. It is not
that he is purposely evading or avoiding the subpena or this com-
mittee, but it was simply not within his power to so do.
The Chairman. Are you saying that you do not now have and have
never had — I am directing the question to the witness — possession, cus-
tody, or control or access to the documents called for by the subpena,
either as an individual or in a representative capacity ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, I must respectfully decline to answer
that question
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Lackey. — and as a defense invoke the privileges guaranteed
to me by the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United
States of America, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, directing myself to the apparent con-
flicting positions, I would like to call attention to Article V of the
constitution of the White Knights which states the duties of kleagles.
It is my understanding that this witness is the grand kleagle of the
TVhite Knights.
His duties under Article V, Section 4 in the recruiting of members
consists of preparing in quadruplicate form the application blanks.
One copy is given to the kligraph, or secretary, and then within 15
days he is under duty to present the remaining copies to the district
klabursar.
Assuming that this witness is the kleagle and assuming he has com-
plied with his constitutional obligations, he would have had the docu-
ments, but would not have any documents within 15 days following
the recruiting of a new member.
2670 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
For that reason I can see why he would say he has no documents
now and would refuse to answer whether he had ever had them.
The Chairmax. Of course, the questions are in the record, irrespec-
tive of the explanation.
Mr. Lackey, your counsel, as I understood him, said what you were
trying to say was that you did not- have the power to produce these
documents. Did I understand counsel correctly ?
Mr. Buckley. That is right.
The Chairman. Wliat the subpena calls for is documents or docu-
ments in your possession or control or custody or available to you.
Are you also saying that you do not now have, and never have had,
possession, custody, or control, or custody or accessibility to the docu-
ments, irrespective of whether you didn't have the technical power to
produce them ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Cliainuan. are you asking me or my attorney?
The Chairman. I directed the question to the witness.
Mr. Lackey. Sorry, sir; I didn't understand it. I thought you. had
asked my attorney.
The Chairman. You can advise with him.
Mr. Lackey. I thought you directed the question directly to him.
I am sorry, sir.
Sir, I think it would be clearer purely by my stating that it was not
physically within my power to bring any such records, documents, cor-
respondence, memoranda, et cetera, purely because I did not possess
these documents at the time, they were not within my custody or con-
trol, and I could not physically bring something that I did not have,
sir.
The Chairman. Did you have possession, custody, or control, or
were there available to you these documents called for on the date that
you were served with the subpena, November 5, 1965, until today?
Mr. Lackey. No, sir, I did not.
The Chairman. You are saying, and you are under oath, that at no
time did you have possession, custody, or control or availability of these
documents ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, with all possible respect for this com-
mittee and its staff, I must in all sincerity decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds as previously stated in invoking the fifth amend-
ment.
The Chairman, I think I follow you. What you are trying to say is
that you stick by your first statement that from tlie time that the sub-
pena was served on you, November 5, 1965, until today, during that
period of time you did not have possession, custody, or control and that
these documents were not available to you during that period of time.
That is the time where you are saying you had no power, as you put it,
to produce the documents. Is that the testimou}' you are giving?
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir ; that is absolutely correct.
The Chairman. Now, as a matter of law I will ask you this question :
Did you have possession, custody, or control, or were these documents
available to you the day before or at any time before you were served,
but that you deliberately lost possession, custody, or control and saw to
it that they were not available to you prior to that time because you
feared, or had reason to believe, that a subpena would be served upon
you to produce them ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2671
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, I must for clarity at this time decline
to answer the question on the grounds as previously stated invoking the
fifth amendment, but I would like to state that I am
The Chairman. Wait a minute. You cannot invoke the fifth
amendment and then say something to just applaud yourself unless you
realize you will be subject to cross-examination on that.
I am making myself plain.
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir; I was trying to do this in the interest of clar-
ity. I am stating that I have never destroyed any document or corre-
spondence, et cetera, in contempt of this body.
The Chairman. All right. Then my next question is this : Accept-
ing as true that you have never destroyed any documents in contempt
of this body at any time, even before you were subpenaed to produce
them, did you at any time, let us say from March 30, 1965, w-hen the
committee announced that it would conduct these hearings, just trans-
fer them to another person or somehow, without destroying them, lose
custody, possession, control, and availability of the documents?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, I have never taken any deliberate
steps
The Chairman. You are not answering my question, and I insist
that you do.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, would you restate the question? Perhaps I mis-
understood it.
The Chairman. You testified that at no time, even prior to the
service of the subpena on November 5, did you destroy these docu-
ments. I base my question on the assumption that you did not de-
stroy them. Not having destroyed them, did you have possession,
custody, or control, or were those documents available to you from
March 30, 1965, wdien we announced the hearings, and did you then
transfer them to somebody else, pass them on to somebody else, or
deliberately lose or do away with custody, possession, or control, or
did you see to it that they were no longer available, they were no
longer available to you?
You are under oath, and that is it.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Willis, I believe you gave me this date — from
March 30 of 1965. That is the date when this hearing was announced.
Is it from that date up until the present? Is that the date in your
question ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, during those dates these documents requested
by the subpena were not within my custody, possession, or control so
that I could have destroyed them, done away with them, or anything
else.
The Chairman. Then I will go back to my first question which was
broader: Did you at any time have possession, control, or custody of
those documents, and were they at any time available to you, and did
you see to it that you lost possession, control, or custody, and did you
see to it that they were no longer available because of a fear or because
of a realization or because you had reasons to believe that at some
time you would be ordered by subpena to produce them?
Mr. Lackey. No, sir, Mr. Willis.
The Chairman. Mr. Lackey, you have responded to my questions
under oath, so I direct Mr. Appell to proceed.
2672 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 of the subpena calls upon you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity as
Special Investigator to the Imperial Wizard or Kleagle at Large of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, of Mississippi which the Constitution and Laws
of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any
other oflBcer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or
control.
I request you to produce in your representative capacity stated in
the attachment, parag:raph 2, the documents called for in paragraph 2.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell, with all possible respect for tliis body, I
could not produce such records as were ordered by the subpena issued
to me, due to the fact that such records were and are not in my posses-
sion, custody, or control and I did not have access to such records, sir.
The Chairman. Have you ever had in your possession, custody, or
control any documents relating to the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, and this refers to these last documents called for and the ones
now called for?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense for so doing the privileges guaranteed to me by
the 5th, the 1st, and the 14th amendments of the Constitution of the
United States of America.
The Chairman. Mr. Lackey, it has been made abundantly clear to
you and your counsel that these documents just called for, and the
ones called for in paragraph 1, that you were being called upon to
produce them in the representative capacities stated in the subpena.
The reason you have given for refusal to produce the documents
called for by both paragraphs 1 and 2 of the subpena do not, in my
opinion, legally justify your refusal, and those reasons are rejected.
I now order and direct you to produce them.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, with all possible respect I could not
produce such records as were ordered by the subpena issued to me, due
to the fact that such records were and are not in my possession, custody,
or control and I did not have access to such records and could there-
fore— it was a physical impossibility for me to bring such records.
The Chairman. I understand that, but yet you invoke the privileges
of the constitutional amendments you related. The two do not make
sense. That is why I directed you to produce them.
Unless you want to explain your position, there is something wrong
somewhere. Maybe I am wrong and dumb, but you do not need the
invocation if what you say is true, so I have ordered you, and you have
refused. That is the way the record stands.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey
The Chairman. Do you know who has them?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, with all possible repect, I must refuse to answer
that question for the reasons previously stated, invoking the fifth
amendment of the Constitution of the Ignited States of America.
The Chairman. Mr. Lackey, you testified under oath that you do
not now have, and never have had. possession, custody, or control of
these documents called for in paragraphs 1 and 2 of the subpena and
that at no time were they available to you during the i^eriod from
March 30, 1965, until the present time. You also testified under oath
that you did not destroy them and that you did nothing to divest your-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2673
self of custody, possession, or control. I have the right not to accept
tliat position and to cross-examine you on that, and I am now doing
it, especially because I take the iX)sition that you have waived your
fifth amendment rights, and so I now ask you, What became of those
documents ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, with all respect, all possible respect to this com-
mittee and its staff, I must decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated, invoking my rights guaranteed me by the
fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. I order and direct you to answer that question and
to produce the documents.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman
The Chairman. First, I order and direct you to answer the question
I have just asked.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know who has possession of those docu-
ments at this time or at any time since you were served with the sub-
pena on November 5, 1965?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Willis, with all due dignity and respect, sir, I
must decline to answer that question for the reasons previously stated,
invoking my rights guaranteed me by the fifth amendment to the Con-
stitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Did those documents ever exist ? It is obvious
some documents relating to the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
did exist.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I must respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Tlie Chairman. I order and direct you to answer that question.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I must respectfully decline
The Chairman. You don't have to do anything. You may choose
to do what you want. You do decline?
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir ; that is correct, sir.
The Chairman. To answer questions on the grounds previously
stated ?
Mr. Lackey. Yes, sir; that is absolutely correct.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I was born in Greenwood, Leflore County, Mis-
sissippi, September 12, 1936.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, my present resiclence is 1414 Camelia Street,
Greenwood, Leflore County, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I entered the public school systems in Greenwood,
Leflore County, Mississippi, where I graduated from Greenwood
High School.
Mr. Appell. In what year, sir?
Mr. Lackey. In the year 1954, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you serve in the military of the United States or
the State of Mississippi ?
2674 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I did not finish on the educational question you
asked before. Would you like me to finish that before I go to the
next question ?
Mr, Appell.. Yes ; please continue.
Mr. Lackey. I graduated from Greenwood High School in I^efiore
County, Mississippi. I atteiided Mississippi State University, at
that time Mississippi State College, for an intermittent period of
about 5 years, dropping out occasionally to work and then returning
the next year to the imiversity .
Mr. Appell. How many credits did you earn ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I don't have my university transcript w4th me
and the length of time and the exact hours escape me.
Mr. Appell. You did not receive a degree ?
Mr. Lackey. That is correct, sir ; I did not receive a degree.
Mr. Appell. Now, returning to the question about military service,
have you had any militai-y service ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I served 8 years in the United States Amiy En-
listed Kesei-ve. I served 2 to 3 years in the Mississippi National
Guard. I liad no active duty other than the short periods of active
duty required for training by these reserve components.
Mr. Appell. As a member of the militaiy establishments you have
set forth, were you trained in counterinsurgency and did you qualify
with an M-1 rifle?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, in these reserve components there is at least 2
hours per week of counterinsurgency training which is required in
all reserve training. And in the normal course of events, I attended
those classes on counterinsurgency, but I would not say I achieved
any degree of proficiency as such in counterinsurgency.
Sir, during the 8 years that I spent in the ITnited States Army
Reserve, I did not have occasion to qualify with the LTnited States
rifle caliber 30 M-1. Li the Mississippi National Guard's annual
spring firing range training, I did qualify wuth the United States
rifle caliber 30 M-1.
Mr. Appell. In addition to the military service which you have
stated, would you give the committee your principal e" ployment
background since 1960?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, my principal employment since the year of 1960
was a small motorcycle sales and service shop, which I operated myself
in my backyard.
Mr. Appell. From 1963 to the present time, would you give the
committee sources of income which you had, other than the motorcycle
repair and sales service and with the Mississip])i National Guard?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I most respectfully decline to answer that question
for the reasons as previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I hand you a form of "Application for
Citizenship in the Invisible Empire in the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi" and ask if you have ever used such a docu-
ment to recruit Mississippians into "the organization stated in the
application ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2675
(Document marked "Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 1" and retained
in committee liles.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, were you a kleagle at large or organizer
of the White Knights of the Ku KKix Klan of Mississippi?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, the committee's investigation established
that you did hold such a position, in addition to other positions.
Therefore, I want to ask you the purport of the last sentence in the
application, which reads as follows :
If I prove untrue as a Klansman I will willingly accept as my portion whatever
penalty your authority may impose.
What does that mean, sir?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I believe I missed a little of the wording. Would
you please repeat it to me, sir ?
Mr. Appell. [Eeading :]
If I prove untrue as a Klansman I will willingly accept as my portion whatever
penalty your authority may impose.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reasons previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I show you a document, the cover page
of which is missing, which describes itself to be "The Constitution of
the White Kniglits of the Ku Klux Klan of the Sovereign Realm of
Mississippi.'" This copy that I am showing you was printed after
April 1964 because, according to the document, it contains three
amendments passed on April 19, 1964. I am showing you this docu-
ment and asking you if you are familiar with its contents?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I most respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 2." See committee
report. The Present-Day Ku Klunc Klan Movement^ pp. 253-292.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, the committee's investigation establishes
that when the White Knights was in its formation stage in late 1963
and early 1964 that you were appointed to a committee for the purpose
of drafting a constitution for the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated I, in all
respectfulness, decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you know Douglas A. Byrd to be the Grand
Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of
Louisiana, and did Mr. Byrd assist you in the drafting of this
constitution ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reasons previouslv stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I shall read to you from Article V of this
constitution, which relates to recruiting, and after reading it to you I
shall ask some questions based upon the provisions of this constitution :
Section 1. All Kleagles and Organizers shall be selected on the basis of their
depth of Christian Dedication, Ability to Organize and Instruct, their Domestic
Situation, and their Moral Integrity.
Section 2. The Klan Kleagle and his selected Kleagles shall be primarily re-
sponsible to the Klan for the further expansion and organization of the Klan.
2676 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Section 3. All Kleagles must possess the clerical ability to perform the work
which the oflBce requires.
Section 4. All Kleagles shall, as a part of each Initiation Ceremony, prepare
a receipt in quadruplicate form, and shall number same, and shall obtain thereon
the number of the Klavern Kligraph, or the temporary officer in charge of the
Klavern, if UnKhartered. The Kleagle shall then leave one copy with the Kli-
graph or temporary officer. The Kleagle shall then, within fifteen days, present
the remaining three copies of the quadruplicate receipt form to the proper Dis-
trict Klabursar thereon, and leave one copy with the Klabursar. The Kleagle
shall then forward both remaining copies of the receipt to the Grand Giant
who shall number both copies, retain one and return the other to the Kleagle.
The four copies shall be retained by their respective holders and surrendered
upon call of a bona-fide Klan Auditor. The Klabees of Khartered Klaverns shall
perform the clerical duties outlined in this section.
Section 5. All Kleagles may be compensated by law.
Section 6. No Kleagle, Officer or Klansman in any capacity shall ever attempt
to recruit an alien for membership into the Klan who is a negro, jew or papist,
not [sic] shall any alien who is cohabiting with or married to, by common law
or pagan ways, a negro, jew or papist ever be allowed membership in the Klan.
Section 7. No i^erson who professes atheism, or who refuses to acknowledge
Almighty God as his Creator, Savior and Inspiration shall ever be allowed
membership in the Klan.
Section 8. No person who espouses any allegiance in any form to any govern-
ment or governmental system, social, ecclesiastical or political, which is in any
way incompatible with the Lawful, Constitutional, Governmental System of the
United States of America shall ever be allowed membership in the Klan. No per-
son who advocates the overthrow or erosion of the Lawful, Constitutional Gov-
ernment of the United States of America shall ever be allowed membership in
the Klan. No person shall ever be recruited who is not a White, Gentile, Ameri-
can-bom Citizen.
Section 9. Kleagles shall scout into new areas and contact prospective Chris-
tian militant aliens for membership in a careful and Judicious manner using
maximum possible secrecy, after being commissioned for this work by the
Imperial Wizard.
Section 10. The membership of the Klan shall be composed of Christian men
who meet the requirements heretofore stated and who are Twenty-One Years of
Age, or older, sound of mind, sober in habits, of good moral character and not
guilty of rape, murder, or treason.
Section 11. After the Initial men have begun a new Klavern, or a Klavern has
been established, the Exalted Cyclops or temporaty [.sic] officer in Charge shall
call for names of men to be submitted as prospective candidates for member-
ship. All members of the particular Klavern who are Klansmen in good stand-
ing shall be allowed to submit names of persons whom they have known for at
least five years personally, and for tivo years intimately, at least. A submittea
name must be accompanied by the vouch of an additional Klavern member in
good standing. All submitte<l names shall be immediately recordetl on the
Prospective Candidate Roll within the Klavern.
The Exalted Cyclops or Temporary OflScer in Charge of the Klavern shall
require that all names of Prospective Candidates shall be called and read aloud
at two consecutive meetings of the Klavern without a dis.senting vote being cast
against any particular prospective candidate, before the siwn.sor of that par-
ticular candidate shall be granted permission to approach that particular candi-
date for membership. If no dissent is heard on a particular candidate for two
consecutive Klavern Readings of his name, the sponsor shall have permission to
contact the candidate for membership.
Mr. Chairman, I ask tliat the remaining paragraphs — —
The Chairman. Let the document be inserted in the record in full.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, in Section 4 that I read to you, it states
that one copy of the receipt is returned to the kleagle. What dispo-
sition did you make of the copy which, according to Section 4, was to
be retained by you so that it might be surrendered upon call of a
bona fide Klan auditor?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reasons as previously stated, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2677
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, you continually invoke the 1st, 5th, and
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States, but the
constitution of the White Knights only holds to the Constitution as
originally written and those amendments were not in it. Can you ex-
plam that to me ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I most respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Mr. Lackey, it it obvious that some documentb
I^assed through your hands at some time, particularly, as I understood
the reading of Section •1 of your constitution, in connection with re-
cruitment operations. Did you recruit anyone to membership since
the service of this subpena, or since March 30, 1965 ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, for the reasons as previously stated, I
most respectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
The Chairman. And 1 now again order and direct you to produce
the documents called for by the subpena.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Willis, sir, I could not produce such records as
were ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such
records were and are not in my possession, custody, or control and I
did not and do not have access to such records, sir.
The Chairman. I now order and direct you to answer the last ques-
tion I propounded. I don't know if I asked that of you before ; did I ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right, then I do not accept the reasons given
by you and the constitutional provisions relied upon as a basis for not
producing those documents and I order and direct you to do so.
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Willis, I am sorry, sir, there seems to be a little
confusion between my attorney and I. What is the last question ?
The Chairman. It is a direction to produce the documents.
Mr. Lackey. Thank you, sir.
Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered by the sub-
pena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were and are
not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
The Chairman. Go on.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, the constitution of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan provides that a kleagle who performs ceremonies
of initiation in Klavenis other than his home Klavem shall be entitled
to deduct from the initiation fee $4 for his personal fee and shall remit
the remaining $6 to the proper district klabursar. To whom did you
transmit the $6 as provided for in the constitution ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell. I respectfully decline to answer that
question for the reasons previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed priv-
ilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions with respect to
the activities of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, I present
to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to
Mr. Lackey.
He was appointed, along with Douglas A. Byrd and others, to write
a constitution for the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Missis-
sippi. Douglas Byrd at that time was the former Grand Dragon of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Mississippi, which
2678 ACTIVITIES OF KU EXUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
has been known by the cover name of the Louisiana Rifle Association
and was banished in 1963 from office and membership by the Imperial
Dragon of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Royal V.
Yomig.
In early 1964, at one of the first meetings of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan in Brookhaven, Mississippi, Mr. Lackey was made
an Imperial Investigator and placed under the control of Emest S.
Gilbert, then grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation and
a man who is now the kleagle of the LTnited Klans of America.
In October 1964, he became a kleagle or organizer at large.
In October 1964, he became one of two province officere holding the
position of province KBI in Province 2 to replace Wesley Kersey.
Both were members of the Leflore Unit No. 1 of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan.
In March 1965 he became province giant for the Leflore Province 2.
In August 1964, Lackey discussed blowing up the SNCC head-
quarters around Greenwood, Mississippi. However, since cars parked
in the vicinity w^ere believed to be occupied by FBI agents, the project
was forgotten.
On August 30, 1964, the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan held
a statewide meeting at Crystal Springs, Mississippi. Among other
things, it was agreed to issue temporary charters with 25 men and
permanent charters with 40. Lackey objected to this procedure.
On September 14, 1964, at an executive meeting of the White Knights
held in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, Gordon Lackey was in attend-
ance.
On January 1, 1965, a meeting was held at the Heidelburg Hotel in
Jackson, Mississippi, for the purpose of establishing a defense fund
to be known as the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense
Fund. This fund had as its primaiy function the raising of funds
for the defense of Philadelphia, Mississippi, defendants accused of
the murder of three civil rights workers. A board of directors was
appointed and consisted of Glen Swetman of Biloxi. Mississippi, a
province giant of the Wliite Knights; Pete Shumaker, of Kosciusko,
Mississippi; Reverend Delmar Dennis, Meridian, Mississippi; and
James M. Hooper of Sidon, Mississippi. The state chairman of the
fund was Elmore D. Greaves of Jackson, Mississippi. Present at the
meeting in addition to Mr. Lackey were the Grand Giant B. D.
Buckles, Imperial Wizard Bowers, Province Giant J. K. Greer, Grand
Dragon Julius Harper, Elmore Greaves, Johnny Bostick of Natchez.
Mississippi, and E. L. "Tiny" I^wis of Natchez, Mississippi.
On January 30, 1965, a meeting was held in Room 3-E of the Robert
E. Lee Hotel in Jackson, Mississippi. Gordon Lackey was present
at this meeting along with other Klan officials, who used this occasion
for the purpose of attending a Klan cabinet meeting held on Janu-
ai-y31.
On January 20, 1964, Gordon M. Lackey applied for a citizens band
radio license covering four transmitters.
In May of 1965, M. F. White of Greenwood, Mississippi, hired a
Negro, Walter Fisher, to paint a house he owned in Greenwood, Mis-
sissippi. Fisher, unloiown to Mr. White, hired Dewey Green, a relative
of the Negro student at Ole Miss. Klansmen painted a black band
around the newly painted house with a type of paint sold to Gordon
Lackey for use in his motorcycle repair shop.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2679
Lackey recruited into membership in the White Knights Byron de
la Beckwith, Avho was arrested and tried for the murder of iMedgar
Evei's.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates Mr. Lackey possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
committee and would materially aid this committee and the Congress
in proposing remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Lackey, you heard the statement read by Mr.
Appell. You now have the opportunity to confirm or challenge the
accuracy of the statement or to explain any part of it. In addition
you may, if you desire, offer any other matter you deem relevant to
this inquiry. Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I respectfully decline to do so for the reasons
previously stated. ■
The ChairMx\n. In that case, Mr. Lackey, I inform you that in the
absence of your rebuttal or other facts that might come to the atten-
tion of this committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of
its investigation. Bearing that in mind, do you wish to say any-
thing ?
Mr. Lackey. No, sir, I do not care to make any statement.
The Chairjniax. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, with respect to the painting of a black
band around a rental house in Green w^ood, Mississippi, owned by M. F.
White, did you have a conversation with Mr. TVHiite with respect to
the Negroes that he hired ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Appell, for the reasons as previously stated, I most
respectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you told Mr. White he had hired 'the "wrong Nigger"
to paint his house and that a neighbor had told Green, the Negro, to
get out of the neighborhood ?
The Chairman. You shook your head indicating in effect it was
not so or you did not know about it. You are at liberty to state the
facts or test the accuracy of our investigation. Do you care to answer
that question ?
Mr. Lackey. No, sir, for the reasons as previously stated I most
respectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I ask you whether or not the black band
was painted around this house by you, John Winstead, and Byron
de la Beckwith ?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, with all possible respect, I must decline to answer
that question for the reasons as previously stated, sir.
The Chair^ian. Mr. Appelf, for clarification, you mentioned that
Mr. Lackey had recruited Byron de la Beckwith into the Klan, but
you did not state a time. Was that before or after the hung jury
proceeding ?
Mr. Appell. I think Mr. Byron de la Beckwith has been tried twice,
both of which trials resulted "in a hung jury, and it is the committee's
information that it was after both of those trials.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. I hand you an application for a citizens band radio
license containing the signature of Gordon M. Lackey. The date set
forth here as the date the application was signed is January 20, 1964.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 23
2680
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
However, I think the proper year should be 1965 because the stamped
receipt of the Federal Communications Commission shows the fee was
received on January 22, 1965.
I hand you this application and ask you if this is a copy of the
application that you submitted for a citizens band radio license?
Mr. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons as previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 3" follows:)
Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 3
■mSEOHAY IM]
UNTTCD sraiEs or tiKinoi
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
■ASHINSTON. 0.C aSM
FORM tfMOVCD
DO NOT WRITE IN
APPLICATION rOR CLASS •, C, OR D STATION LICENSE IN THK
CITIZENS RADIO SERVICE
1. Application for C\am A lUtion Ijnnae must be AM on PCC FORM 400.
2. Complete on typewriter or print ele«rly.
t. Be Bure •pplintlon ta Bicned snd dst«d. Moil •ppliation to Feder&l Com-
municntiona CommiMlon. Cettysburf. '*■•• 17326.
THIS BLOCK Q ^-.
, Enclose appropriate fee with application. If required.
Ulu chf ■ .. - -
in. fSee
a fee la requires with thii application.)
>Ppr . - , ,- - ---
Malu check or monav order payable to Pvderal Communleatlona
Se« Part 19. Volume VI of PCC rules to determine
DO NOT SUBMIT
»tlona
hcther
NAME OF APPLICANT
•USIKCSS NAKC (OR LAST NAME. IT AN INCHViPoALr
Lackey
FIKST NAME (IF AN INUVIDUAU
Gordon
MIOOU INfTUU.
M.
IF AN INDIVIDUAL OPERATING UNDER A TRADE NAME GIVE INDIVIDUAL
NAME. OR ir PARTNERSHIP. LIST NAMES OF PARTNERS (Pa no* repMi
any nonw aaed ta item |)
LAST NAMES
FIRST NAMES
MAILING ADDRESS
NUMSCR AND SI Ren
I4.I2 W. Park Ave,
Greenwood
Miss.
IIP CODC
3a93l
COUNT V OA EQmVAUMT SUMMVISION
Leflore
CLASSIFICATION OF APPLICANT (S« iulrulurai)
INDIVIDUAL
D
D
AStOCIATION
CLASS OF STATION (C*«et tmlt ox)
[ ] CLAftt ■ Q CUItt c
IS THIS APPLICATION TO MODIFY OR RCNCW AN EXISTING STATION UCCNSCT
□ VM (CiM MB •!»•).■ ^ MO
□ to
5?'
DOES EACH TRANSMITTER TO BE OPERATED APPEAR ON THE COMMIS-
SION S ■ RADW EQUIPMENT LIST. PART C ' OR, IF FOR CLASS C OR
CLASS 0 STATIONS. IS IT CRVSTAL.O0NTII0LLE0T (// ««, ailacA
datoiled dneriflioik: am «»*]Mrf C 0/ Part t$)
A WILL APPLICANT OWN ALL THE RAOK} COUIPMENH (//a
B aad C btlott)
NAME OF oamoi
IS The appucant apartv to a written lease or other acreiment uwocr
WHICH THE CWNERSHIP OR CONTROL Will U. EXERCISED IN TtC SAME HAN-
ICR AS IF THE EQUIPMENT WERE OWNED IT THE APPUCANTT
MAS APPLICANT READ AMD UNDERSTOOD THE PROVISIONS Of PART U
SUBPART D DEALING WITH PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHICH
THIS CLASS OF STATION MAY BE USEOT
WILL THE USE OF THE STATION CONFORM IN ALL RESPECTS WITH THE
PERMISSIBLE COMMUNICATIONS AS SET FORTH IN PART l», SUBPART OT
WILL THE STATION BE OPERATED BY ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE
APPLICANT MEMBERS OF HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR HIS EMPLOYEES?
H/ ye*, attath a BtparaU thtet txaltnt l)u %anu» and rtlat\on»kip 0/ ail
tu£H pereoiu and piM a dftatUd rta»on for Uuif eperolwn e/ foar
•loliOH)
IS APPLICANT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY ALIEN OR ANY FOREIGN
GOVERNMENTT (// ytt, ezploiN /aUy)
WITHIN 10 YEARS PREVIOUS TO THE DATE OF THIS APPLICATION HAS
THE APPLICANT OR ANY PARTY TO THIS APPLICATION BEEN CONVICTED
IN A FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL COURT OF ANY CRiME FOR WHICH THE
PENALTY IMPOSED WAS A FINEOf iSJOOR MORE OH AN IMPRISONMENT
OF 6 MONTHS OR MORE1 (Sft iiutriurtionj. If y«i, aiiatk a •eportU*
Bkdft pinatf d<ta(lt 0/ (ocJt mck coavicftoa)
IF APPLICANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A PARTNERSHIP. ARE YOU OR ANY
PARTNER LESS THAN II YEARS Of AGE (LESS THAN 12 YEARS Of AGE IF
FOR CLASS C STATION LICENSE)?
ir THE PRINCIPAL LOCATION WHERE THE STATION WILL BC
USED IS DIFFERENT FROM THE MAILING ADDRESS (ITEM S),
GIVE THAT LOCATION. (DO NOT GIVE POST OFFICE BOX OR
NUMMJI AND STMIT
II cAHMOT ■ ifcaraD BT sTMrr. arr. and fTAii. mm OTHa 0
DO NOT wXiTE IN THIS BOX
O N
SION AND OATK THC APPLICATION' 9^ HCVCmC tIDC
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2681
Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 3~Continucd
/* IF APPLICANT IS A NONGOVERNMENTAL
CORPORATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
IS ANY OFFICER OH DIRECTOR OF THE CORPORATION AN ALIENT
IS MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK EITHER OWNED OF
RECORD OH MAY IT BE VOTED BY ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES.
OR BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT OH REPRESENTATIVE THEREOF OR BY
ANY CORP0RATK3N ORGANIZED UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN
COUNTRY?
IS APPLICANT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY ANY OTHER
CORPORATION? <// ytt, antwer itcmj E Ihrovgh K ixUnti)
GIVE NAME AND ADDRESS OF CONTROLLING CORPORATION
IS MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE CAPITAL STOCK OF CONTROLLING
CORPORATION EITHER OWNED OF RECORD OH MAY IT BE VOTED BY
ALIENS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, OR BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT
OR REPRESENTATUE THEREOF. OR BY ANY CORPORATION ORGANIZED
UNDER THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY? (// ^«, gxtt dtlaiU)
IS ANY OFFICER OR MORE THAN ONE FOURTH OF THE DIRECTORS OF
THE CONTROLLING CORPORATION AN ALIEN? (7/ yta, anrwtT iUm»
I a-nd J ittlov)
TOTAL NUMBER OF DIRECTORS IN CONTROLLING CORPORATION
LIST ALL OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS WHO ARE ALIENS IN CONTROLLING
COHFORATIOH AND GIVE BRIEF BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENT FOR EACH
ALIEN
NATIONAUTY
OFFICE HEi.0
IS THE CONTROLLING COHPORATK)N IN TURN CONTROLLED
BY OTHER COMPANIES? (// ^tt, oUaeh infarmaUtm for tach
of Iheat eonlrolltnQ companiet eottring Ihe infonruUxon re-
ipi^tUd tn \Uma E Ihrmtgh J, abc*«)
□ no
IF APPLICANT IS AN UNINCORPORATED
ASSOCIATION. ANSWER THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
IS ANY OFFICER OR DIRCCTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION AN ALIEN?
AHE MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF THE VOTING MEMBER50F ThE ASSOClA
TION ALIENS OR HEPRtSENTA TIVES OF ALIENS FOpEIGN GOVERNMENTS
OR REPRESENTATIVES THEREOF OR CORPORATIONS ORGANIZED UNDER
THE LAWS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY?
IS THE ASSOCIATK)N OiRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY AN^
OTHER ORGANIZATION! (// „«, g,„ dttaiUd nplanalion)
USE THIS SPACE FOB ANT ADWTIONAL INFORMATION OR REMARKS
WILLFUL FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON THIS FORM ARE PUN-
ISHABLE BY FINE AND IMPRISONMENT. U.S. CODE, TITLE 18,
SECTION 1001.
ALL THE <TATCMENTft MADE IN THE APPLICATION AND ATTACHED EXHIBITS ARE CONSIDERED MATERIAL REPRESENT ATlONft, AND ALL THE EXHIBITS ARE
A MATERIAL PART HEREOF AND ARE INCORPORATED HEREIN AS IF SET OUT IN FULL IN THE APPLICATION.
I CERTIFY THAT:
The applicant has (of has ordered from the Government Printing Office) a current copy of Part 19 of the Commission's rules governing
the Citizens Radio Service;
The applicant waives any claim to the use of any particular frequency or of the ether as against the regulatory power of the United
States because of the previous use of the same, whether by license or otherwise .
The applicant accepts full responsibility for the operation of. and will retain control of any citizens radio station licensed to him pursuant
to this application .
The station will be operated in full accordance with the applicable law and the current rules of the Federal Communications Commission ;
The said station will not be used for any purpose contrary to Federal. State or local law;
The applicant will have unlimited access to the radio equipment and effective measures will be taken to prevent its use by unauthorized
persons . and
The statements in this application are true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and are made m good faith.
DO
NOT OPERATE
VOUR OWN
UNTIL VOU
LICENSE.
HAVE
USE
OF ANV
OWN
CALL SIGN NOT
S PROHIBITED.
V0U1I
rue. complete, and correct to the best ot my knowledge and belief and are made m good faith.
(Ch9ck sfififTOprimf boM below)
MEMBER or
APPLICANT
' PARTNERSHIP
'J^f ,
Jf<t)IVI0UAL I 1 MEMBER OF I 1 OFFICER OF APPLICANT | 1 OFFICIAL OF
APPLICANT APPLICANT CORPORATION OR GOVERNMENTAL
U^. COVCRNMENTPRINIlNCarna IH)~O-«»4-«0l
Bepf'nted by E. F. Johnton Company
The Chairmax. Mr. Lackey, you lia\e a perfect right to say, if it is
right, that this application for a citizens band license was for the pur-
pose of conducting your business. Is that true ?
Mr. Lackey. I am sorry, sir, but I must stand on my position and
respectfully decline to answer that question for the reasons as previ-
ously stated.
2682 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Tlie Chairman. Then I must ask another question : "Was the pur-
pose of the application for the citizens band license because you in-
tended to use it for Klan activities?
Mr. Lackey. Again, Mr. Chairman, with all possible respect, I de-
cline to answer that question for the reasons as previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, did you know Mr. A. C. Herrington to be
the grand kleagle or tlie head organizer for the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer that
question for the reasons as previously stated, in\okingthe fifth amend-
ment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that he holds or has held that i)Osition.
Mr. Lackey. Sir, I must, with all respect, decline to answer thai
question for the reasons as previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lackey, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, tliat among the kleagles at large of the "^^Hiite
Knights of Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi you knew the following
kleagles :
Woody Mathews from Utica, Mississippi; the Reverend Rank
Boyte of Attala, Mississippi; Frank Rreeland of Columbia, Missis-
sippi; Ralph Edwards of Yazoo City, Mississippi; J. X. Fortenberry
of Jackson, Mississippi; and Bill Sullivan of Pearl, Mississippi.
Mr. Lackey. I most respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reasons as previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staf?' has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
Mr. AVeltner. Mr. Chairman, I have some questions.
I notice this witness, according to this investigative report, was one
of the drafters of the constitution of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, and he has a high school education and for 5 years was in-
termittently enrolled in a college. For that reason, I would like to
ask if you can explain one or two provisions of this constitution:
On page 12 of tlie constitution. Section 18, it sets forth the duties of
the grand cliaplain. It says :
The Grand Chaplain shall serve in the capacity of Christian advisor on all
■luestions of morals and idealistic Klavern conduct.
Then it states this, which I hope you can explain to me :
In cases of extreme penalties the advise [sic] of the Grand Chaplain shall be
sought and considered.
As one of the drafters of this constitution, what would be an example
of a case of extreme penalties ?
Mr. Lackey. Mr. Weltner, I respectfully decline to answer that
question for the reasons as previously stated, sir.
Mr. Weltxer. On ]:)age 30, Mr. Lackey, of this constitution — and I
would like the chief investigator to provide Mr. Lackey with a co])y of
that constitution if there is any question of it — Section 5 reads as
follows:
All Klan functions, regardless of time, place and manner, shall begin with
prayer, and end with prayer to Almighty God.
I want to know if that was applied to the case of carrying out ex-
treme penalties as provided in the preceding section ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2683
Mr. Lackey. My. AVeUner, with all possible respect, I must decline
to answer that question for the reasons as ])rcviously stated, invoking
the hfth amendment to tlie Constitution of the United States of
America.
Mr. Weltner. Now if you will examine page 39, Amendment 2 of
the original constitution. These amendments were passed on April
19, 1964, to become effective 30 days thereafter. It states:
No disciplinary cross shall be burned on private property without prior ap-
proval and investigation by the Province Investigators and Province Titan.
I would like you to tell the committee what is a disciplinary cross?
]\Ir. Lackey. Sir, for the reasons as previously stated I must most
respectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Weltxer. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. BucHANAX. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask Mr. Appell, in de-
scribing Project 4, did you say extermination ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. BucHANAX. Thank you.
The Chairmax^. The witness is excused.
The committee stands at recess until 2 :15.
AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 12, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :15 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and
Weltner.)
The CiiAiRMAX. As chairman of the full Committee on L^n-Amer-
ican Activities, I hereby constitute for the purpose of this afternoon's
hearings the following subcommittee — myself as chairman, Mr. Welt-
ner, and Mr. Buchanan. This means two constitute a quorum.
Let it be noted in the record that a quorum is present.
Call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Thomas Brock.
TheCiLMRMAx. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Brock. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS COLLINS BROCK, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHAKLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
^Ir. Appj:ll. Will you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Brock. Thomas Collins Brock.
Mr. Appell. C-o-l-l-i-n-s?
Mr. Brock. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Last name, B-r-o-c-k i
Mr. Brock. Right.
Mr. Appell. ]Mr. Brock, are yon api^earing ])efore the committee
this afternoon in accordance with a subpena served npon you by
Investigator Sullivan of this connnittee on November 1, 1965?
Mr. Brock. I am.
2684 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. It is understood, attorneys for this witness, that
this witness, Mr. Brock — and let us say all others you migrht repre-
sent, heard the opening statement I made outlinino- the purposes and
objectives of these hearings ?
Mr. Blackwell. I so stipulate.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, are you represented by counsel i
Mr. Brock. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record?
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Post Office Box 411.
Bay Springs, Mississippi.
Mr. Blackwell. Charles Blackwell, attorney at law, Laurel, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brook, under the conditions of the subpena served
upon you, there was an attachment thereto made a part of the sub-
pena, and under the terms of it, it commanded you to bring with you
and produce documents set forth in certain paragraphs.
Paragraph 1 reads :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated oi-ganizations, namely the Mississippi
Constitutional Council in your possession, custody or control or maintained by
.vou or available to you as the present or past Chief Klabursar of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Brock, in the representative capacity set forth in paragraph
1 of your subpena, I ask that you produce those documents.
Mr. Brock. I am sorry I cannot produce such records as were
ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not
and do not have access to any such records.
The Chairman. Do you understand that the subpena is for you to
bring the documents in your representative capacity and not as an in-
dividual, as though those documents i:)ertain to your own affairs?
Mr. Brock. Yes.
The Chairman. Are you now saying that in the capacity stated in
the subpena you do not now have, and have never had, possession, cus-
tody, or control of those documents and they never were available to
you ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir; I didn't say that.
The Chairman. That is where we do not seem to understand each
other.
"^AHiat did you say ?
Mr. Brock. I stated that I could not produce such records as were
ordered by this subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not
and do have access to any such records.
The Chairman. I wish counsel could in a sliort way explain his
client's position. If we could understand each other, I think we could
move faster.
Mr. Buckley. I think so too.
What he is saying is simply this, he cannot produce the records
because it was not physicall^^ in his power to do so at the time the sub-
pena was issued to him requiring him to.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2685
The Chairman. Were the documents in your possession at any time
before the subpena was issued upon you ?
Mr. Brock. Mr. Willis, sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question and I invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed me by
the 5th, 1st, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
The Chairman. Did you divest yourself of possession, custody, or
control, or in any way make it impossible for you to produce those
documents because you apprehended that you might be called upon
to produce them by subpena?
(At this point Mr. Buchanan entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know who has possession of those
documents ?
Mr. Brock. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you occupy a position before this subpena was
served upon you which required you to have possession of the docu-
ments, and either resigned or assumed another position whereby some-
one else would have to assume possession and custody or control and
whereby you could transfer those documents to that individual?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answ^er that question.
The Chairman. Did those documents ever exist?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the previous reasons already stated, 1 respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Brock, have you ever had in your custody,
possession, or control the documents listed in the subpena ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for tlie reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question. That is in article 1 and 2 as stated
on the subpena.
The Chairman. Is it not true that, having heard about the hearings
to come, some steps were taken to divest you of possession, custody, or
control so you can now say what you are saying?
Mr. Brock. Mr. Willis, sir, for the reason previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I tell you, sir, since those documents were ordered to
be produced by you in your representative capacity, I do not accept as
valid the reasons you have given and, more properly, the reasons you
fail to give as justifying your invocation of the constitutional provi-
sions relied upon.
I now therefore order and direct you to produce them in the capacity
indicated in the subpena.
Mr. Brock. Sir, I cannot produce such records by subpena issued
to me, due to the fact that such records were, and are, not in my
possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not have access to
such recx)rds.
The Chairman. Did you, or to your knowledge did anyone else,
destroy the documents?
Mr.'BROCK. Sir, for the ])revious reasons stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
2686 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairmax. I further tell yon, in my opinion, having taken the
way out in the self-serving manner you have indicated, I have a right to
cross-examine you on that subject and therefore I ask you again: Did
those documents exist at any time ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I think by opening the door in the self-serving
manner you did in failing to enlighten the committee, it is obviously
proper — I must, and now do, order you to answer that question.
Mr. Brock. Sir, I respectfully decline for the reasons previously
stated, and respectfully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
It is understood he is under order both to answer questions and
produce.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, on June 7, 1964, did you personally, using
the hood of an automobile, give a receipt to a Klansman for the pay-
ment of funds which they owed to the "White Knights of the Ku Kliix
Klan?
Mr. Brock. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and 14th amend-
ments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Brock. Learned, Mississippi, January 19, 1917.
Mr. Appell. January, Mr. Brock?
Mr. Brock. June — I beg your pardon.
Mr. Appell. Would you recite for the committee your educational
background ?
Mr. Brock. I attended grade school at Lebanon. Three years at
Raymond High School finishing my high school education, and just
a month or two at junior college. I finished my high school work at
Hines Junior, which at that time had high school work, and then
continued about 2 months, I suppose, in college — Hines Junior Col-
lege, Greenwood, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Since I960, wliat has been your employment baclc-
ground ?
Mr. Brock. Principally farming has always been my background.
Mr. Appell. From what other sources have you received compen-
sation?
Mr. Brock. I served as justice of tlie peace a little over 2 years, I
l)elieve, and one full 4-year term.
The Chairman. Was tliat an elected position? Were you elected?
Mr. Brock. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Are you currently a justice of the peace ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Wliat other sources of revenue have you had since
1960?
Afr. Brock. I belie^•e it was March 1, 1964, I started working for
the Hines County Cooperative.
Mr. Appell. Are you still employed by them ?
Mr. Brock. Yes.
Mr. Appell. What other sources of revenue have you had since
1960?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2687
Mr. Brock. Other than maybe an oil lease — you know sometimes
they come around and lease for oil — something"^ of that nature, that
about covers it.
Mr. Appell. And that is all of the revenue that you have received
from 1960?
Mr. Brock. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever receive any revenue provided for by the
AVhite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan for any position that you held
within that organization?
The Chairman. Let's make it plain, as I understand the question, he
is asking you for revenues that you might have received as an officer,
and I suppose that will be the next question. I do not know. Let it be
understood right now that Mr. Appell is asking you, did you receive
revenues provided for and which you were entitled to receive person-
ally as a member of the Klan.
Mr. Brock. Mr. Appell, would you mind repeating your question.
Mr. Appell. Did you receive any revenue or income from the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?
The Chairman. Personally, and not in a representative capacity for
the time being.
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. The constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan provides for reimbursement of travel and meals of officials of that
organization. Have you ever received such compensation ?
The Ch.\irman. Or reimbursement.
Mr. Appell. Or reimbursement ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you receive revenues — and I certainly do not
know the answer to this question — as a member or as an official of the
Ku Klux Klan which you, in turn, transmitted to someone else?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, I hand you a mimeographed form cap-
tioned at the top "Mississippi Constitutional Council."' It provides
that certain information be supplied : the unit number, county, district,
subdistrict, and recruiter's number, and I ask you if that is a cover de-
signation of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Mississippi
Constitutional Council?
Mr. Brock. Wliat does this represent? State your question again.
Mr. Appell. I ask you after reviewing that form whether you know
if the Mississippi Constitutional Council shown on the top of that
dociunent is the cover designation for the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi?
The Chairman. Let me explain that so it will be perfectly clear to
you.
We have evidence imder oath in the record, in innumerable instances,
to the effect that Klan organizations or Klavems, in order to keep
secret the fact they are Klan organizations, operate under assumed or
cover names or under front names, and this is what this question is
about.
Do you know whether or not the name indicated on that docurnent
is a cover name or an assumed name to indicate greater respectability
for what is really a Klan organization ?
2688
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
That is what the question is about. You either know or you do not.
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Thomas Brock Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Thomas Brock Exhibit No. 1
MISSISSIPPI CONSTITUTIONAL COUNCIL
District
Unit No. County Sub-District
Hobo Unit Recruiter? Yes or No ( ) State RocruitorT Yea or No (
Previous Unit memborahip strength prior to this ^ate ( ).
(Form # R - 1 )
Recruiter* No,
Last Meeting Date of this Units
NEV
Hcmbor' s
Number
( )
( )
1 196 . This Meeting Date
)
,196_
Si.:ALL*l.IEDIUl-I*LARGE* LID •ENTRY FEE* BOOK FEE •
(
(
( )
( )
\ ]
Total Members Recruited this Meeting (
Previous Total Membership of Unit (
Total l-iombership at Close of Meeting (
Total Entry Foe Collected at this Meeting
Previous Total Entry Fees this Unit
Total Unit Entry Fees To Date
Total Book Fee Collected This Meeting
Previous Total Book Fee this Unit
Total Book Fee This Unit to Date
Unit President's (or 0 in C'3)Number
District Bursar's Number
State Secretary'. s Number
^recom;sjded
BY
NUMBER
( )
i ]
Notes and Remarks
INSTRUCTIONSj a Copy of this '^sport together with the proper total of All Entry Fees
Listed horin must be in the Hands of the District Bursar within Fifte n days followir.
the Date of this report. The Local Unit Treasurer or Secretary will collect '»nd holu
all jook foes until the Stato Liorarian Delivers the books to the Unit. It a STATE
Recruiter does the recruiting, ho must make FOUR (4) copies of this Rocipt Form, and
leave ONE copy with the local unit for their records, and turn over ONE copy to the
Bursar together with the proper amount of the total fees colloctedj and forward ore
copj to the State Secretary thru the proper Sub-District Secretary. All copies must
be initialed with the number of each Officer who receives a copy. The Stato Secretary
v/ill then compile all pertinent information contained herin and forward copies to
the President, the Viwo-President, and the House Detective.
Mr. Appfxl. Let the record show that the instructions contained at
the bottom of this document as to how it should be executed and dis-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2689
tributioii inade of it are instructions which are identical with those
contained in the constitution as in response to the recruiting of neAv
members.
Mr. Brock, commencing in February of 1964, did you become a
klabursar of the White Knights of the Ku Kkix Klan?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, the constitution provides that there will be
a board of five klabursars and with one elected by the five to be its
chief.
Do you knoAV Everett D. Wiggs of Woodland, Mississippi ; Gordon
Sykes of Greenville, Mississippi ; Jack Williams of Pelahatchie, Miss-
issippi; and Donald Elmer Henshaw of Laurel, Mississippi, to have
been fellow klabursars with you ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Did you attend a meeting of the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan on June 7, 1964, near Raleigh, Mississippi, a rather
large meeting at which some 300 Klansmen were presents
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, it was announced at that meeting that money collected by
Donald Henshaw was to be turned over to you as the chief klabursar ^
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that at that meeting held near Raleigh on June
7, 1964, a speech was made by the Imperial Wizard, Sam Bowers, and
that in the course of this speech he urged members to obtain firearms,
that he urged younger members to travel to assist law enforcement
and emphasized that these members were to stay out of trouble until
you catch them, referring to COFO [Council of Federated Organiza-
tions] workers, outside the law, and, he said, "then under Mississippi
law you have the right to kill them."
Did you hear that speech made by Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers ?
The Chairman. I am sorry, I did not hear the question.
Mr. Appell. I asked the witness whether or not he was present at
the meeting on June 7, 1964, and whether or not he heard a speech by
the Imperial Wizard, Sam Bowers, in which the Imperial Wizard
urged all members to obtain firearms and urged younger members to
travel to assist law enforcement, and emphasized that they should stay
out of trouble until you catch them, referring to COFO workers, out-
side the law and then under Mississippi law, according to the Imperial
Wizard, "you have the right to kill them."
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Did Mr. Bowers claim at that meeting that such a thing
had happened at Old Miss and, as a result of it, some six United States
marshals had been killed there, but the then Attorney General Kennedy
was keeping it quiet ?
Mr. Brock. For the reason previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
2690 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appbll. Mr. Brock, liave you heard within the White Knights
of the Kii Klux Klan Projects 1, 2, 3, 4 stemmino; from threatening
telephone calls up to elimination or extermination of people ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that Bowers at that speech made a report to the Klansmen
that there were than 97 projects working which would be completed
in the near future ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Can you enlighten the committee as to the nature of
any one of the 97 projects ?
Mr. Brock. For the reasons previously stated, sir, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. xVppell. Mr, Brock,'did you attend the meeting on November 15,
1964, near Brandon, Mississippi, at wliich there was discussed a
moratorium on the third and fourth degree projects ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that at that meeting Imperial Wizard Bowers
reported that the "Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had incurred
some $19,000 in* legal fees, including cash bail, and that the treasury
had only $18,500 and that, in addition, the State Treasury owed
$4,500 throughout the State, including $500 to the Lauderdale
Klavern.
Were you present — I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm
or deny those facts.
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, did you attend a State meeting of the
White Knights in Pearl River County on May 2, 1965?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that the various bursars were called upon to make a
report at that meeting and it was reported that Judge Tommv Brock
had $2,100 on hand; that Vincent Purser from Gulf port had $800;
that Dewitt Sandifer, of Jayess, Mississippi, had $350; and that Billy
Buckles advised that Julius Harper had $400; and that Billy Buckles
also advised that the Greenwood T^nit had $1,000.
I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny the fact.
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I res])ectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Brock, under the constitution certain financial
records are maintained by the klabursars in order to assure the orga-
nization that money is not mishandled or that there is no malfeasance
in office and other things. Therefore as the chief klabursar you
maintained records. When did you dispose of thovSe records?
Mr. Brock. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2691
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this Avitness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call 3'our next witness.
Mr, Appell. I call Mr. A. C. Herrin^ton.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give in this hearing
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Herrington. I do. sir.
TESTIMONY OF A. C. HERRINGTON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES G. BLACKWELL
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. Herrington. A, C. Herrington. That is spelled H-e-r-r.
Mr. Appell. You pronounce it Herrington ?
Mr. Herrington. Well, it is pronounced both ways now, H-a and
H-e both down there.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, are you appearing before the com-
mittee this afternoon in accordance with a subpena served upon you
by Investigator John D. Sullivan on November 4, 1965 ?
Mr, Herrington. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. PIerrington. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record?
Mr. BuKLEY. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi,
Mr. Blackwell, Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law. Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, under the terms of the subpena served
upon you and attachment thereto which is made part of the subpena,
you were called upon in part 1 to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated organizations, namely the
Mississippi Constitutional Council in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as present or past Exalted Cyclops, King
Kleagle or State Organizer of the White Knights, Ku Klux Klan of Missis-
sippi.
Mv. Herrington, I request you to produce the documents in the repre-
sentative capacity set forth in part 1 of the subpena.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, I cannot produce such records as were or-
dered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did
not and do not have access to such records.
The Chairman. Did you have iX)Ssession, custody, or control or
were they available to you in the representative capacity described
in the subpena, the documents called for in the subpena at any time
after March 30, 1965, when the committee announced that it would
conduct these hearings?
Mr. Herrington. No, sir.
2692 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Were those records to your knowledge destroyed,
done away with in any way ?
Mr. Herrixgton. Sir, I respectfully decliiie to antswer that question
and invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to rue by the iith, 1st,
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of
America.
The Chairman. Did you take any steps to divest yourself, or do you
know whether anyone else took any steps to divest himself, of these
documents so that you could take the position you are now taking
today ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. You have refused to produce these documents on
the grounds that you are unable to produce them because you have
not had possession, custody, or control of them and they nave not
been available to you since you were served witli tliis subpena and
since March 30, 1965.
Did you have possession, custody, or control of these records or were
they available to you at any time ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do these document called for in this part of the
subpena exist?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did they ever exist?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respecl-
fuUy decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Where are they now ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Who has these documents nov,-?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Have you taken the position you have because,
as you stated, while you have not had possession, custody, or control
in the capacity of the position you held or now hold with tlie White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, you nevertheless had
them as an official of that outfit under a cover or front name?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, will you repeat the question, please?
The Chairman. I want to be sure about tlie situation. You said
you did not have possession, custody, or control of these records; that
they were not available to you ; that you did not destroy them, and then
proceeded to invoke the fifth amendment. I am now asking you
whether you had custody, possession, or control of these documents
not, for example, as kiuir kleagle or State organizer for the Wliite
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, but whether you held them as an official
of a cover name or a front name for the Wiiite Kniglits of the Ku Khix
Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for tlie reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Herrington, you stated that you ha\e not had
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2693
possession of the documents mentioned in the subpena since March
30, 1965. Is that correct?
Mr. Herrington. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Weltner. Have you had possession of the documents, or any
of the documents, mentioned in that subpena subsequent to February
1, 1965, that date being the first date where there was public discus-
sion of the possibility of investigating the Ku Klux Klan by this
committee — February 1, 1965?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, I have those mentioned in number 4 here, the
1045 mentioned.
Mr. Weltner. I refer to the documents mentioned in paragraph
1 — books, records, and documents pertaining to the Wliite Knights of
the Ku Klux Ivlan, the Mississippi Constitutional Council, particu-
larly in a representative capacity.
My question was whether or not you had those documents in your
possession at any time subsequent to February 1, 1965. You stated you
have not had such documents subsequent to March 30, 1965.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. I will ask one more question. On March 17, this
committee conducted an executive session in which the proposed in-
vestigation of the Ku Klux Klan was discussed. That meeting was
duly reported in the press and given some degree of coverage.
I will ask you whether or not you have had in your possession
between the dates March 17 and March 30 any of the documents men-
tioned in paragraphs 1 or 2 of that subpena.
Mr. Herrington. Would you repeat the dates, sir ?
Mr. Weltner. Bear in mind that you have testified imder oath you
have not had any of these documents since March 30, 1965. That was
the date that this committee decided to conduct this investigation.
I asked you, first, whether or not you had any documents subse-
quent to February 1, 1965, which was the first time there was any
widespread public discussion of an investigation of the Klan by this
committee. You declined to answer that question on the grounds of
the fifth amendment and others.
I stated to you then that on March 17 this committee met, and the
indications apparently were in the press reports that there was going
to be an investigation.
I want to know whether or not you had in your possession any
documents identified in paragraphs 1 or 2 of the Mississippi Wiite
Knights or the Mississippi Constitutional Council subsequent to the
date March 17.
Mr. Herrington. 1955?
Mr. Weltner. 1966.
Mr. HJERRiNGTON. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. You had not ?
Mr. Herrington. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, in connection with your response to
the production of records and your statement that j^ou are powerless
to do so, is any of your answer encompassed within an oath taken
by members of the Ku Klux Klan, White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi, which states that :
2694 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
I swear that I will never be the cause of a breach of secrecy or any other act
which may be detrimental to the integrity of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, to the best of my knowledge I have told the
truth and nothing but the truth on this stand.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, the committee's investigation estab-
lished that you held the position of Klan kleagle for the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi. Is the committee's information
factual ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, at the meeting near Raleigh, Missis-
sippi, on June 7, 1964, it was announced that the AVliite Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan had organized 62 Klaverns in 82 Mississippi counties.
Is that information factual ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated I respect-
fully decline to answ^er that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, the committee's investigation estab-
lished that, at that meeting of Jmie 7 there was handed out to some
oOO Klansmen present a document headed "Harrasment." I hand you
a reproduction of a leaflet and ask you if you have ever seen this
document, sir.
In looking at that, Mr. Herrington, I would like to explain to you
that this is a mimeographed reproduction on both sides of one sheet.
In our making a copy it was impossible to reproduce it all on one sheet
of paper, so it is on two sheets of paper.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask permission to put this document
in the record.
The Chairman. It has been put in, and all documents which might
have been commented on, handed to, or exhibited to the witness will,
as usual, bo inserted in the record at the respective points.
(Document previously marked '"James Jones Exhibit No. 34." See
committee report. The Present-Day Ku Khix Klan Movement, pp.
172-173.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, while the entire document is in the
record I would like to call the attention of the committee to one para-
graph of this document whicli relates to some equipment which may
be found useful in harassment:
(1) Roofing nails; (2) sugar and molasses: (3) firecrackers, (4)
snakes and lizards; (5) mad dogs; (6) itching powder; (7) stink
bombs; (8) tear gas; (9) paint; (10) lacquer thinner ; (11) slingshots,
marbles, BB guns, air rifles, bow and arrow, cross bows; (12) blank
cartridges and pistols; (13) Roman candles; (14) sky rockets; (15)
salt and pepper ; (16) noisemakers.
The Chairman. Mr. Appell, those were recommended acts of harass-
ment?
Mr. Appell. Instruments Avhich may be used in carrying out acts of
harassment described in thisdm-ument.
The Chairman. Going beyond that, what does the other document
say about the four steps and the procedure of this organization ?
Mr. Appell. We had testimony under oath, Mr. Chairman, that
within the White Knights of the'Ku Klux Klan they operated with
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2695
four projects: Project No. 1, threatening telephone calls or visits; 2,
burning of a cross, usually on property of an individual, private
property; 3, beating or flogging, burning of property, wild shooting
into property, and bombing; 4, extermination.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Herrington, did you participate in any of these acts of harass-
ment outlined in the list which Mr. Appell read ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you participate in any of the four steps out-
lined by Mr. Appell as having been disclosed to this committee under
oath?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, T respectfully
decline to answer that question.
^Ir. Weltner. I would like to ask a question from this document.
A portion of this document, Mr. Herrington, states, that:
As far as our immediate work is concerned, Iiarassment fulfils two important
goals : 1. It provides a healthy, not-too-dangerous outlet for the Spirited En-
thusiasm of the Membership and trains them to work together. If successful, it
boosts morale.
I want to ask you, Mr. Herrington, whether you think the use of
mad dogs and tear gas is a healthy, enthusiastic outlet?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, could you be more specific?
Mr. "Weltner. Yes, sir. I will ask the investigator to hand to the
witness a copy of this document so that he might have it in his hand
and follow the portion from which I read.
Mr. Herrington, if you will look at the third paragraph it states :
As far as our immediate work is concerned, harassment fulfils two imx)ortant
goals: 1. It provides a healthy, not-too-dangerous outlet for the Spirited En-
thusiasm of the Membership and trains them to work together. If successful,
it boosts morale.
Then at the bottom of the first page of the document, some equip-
ment which may be found useful in harassment is listed. Then there
are 16 different' it ems. Two of those are mad dogs and tear gas.
My question to you is this : Do you feel that the use of mad dogs and
tear gas in harassing other persons is a healthy, not-too-dangerous
outlet for spirited enthusiasm?
Mr. Herrington. No, sir, I don't think it is.
Mr. Weltner. Look at that list there and tell me whether you feel
that any of these 16 items constitute a healthy, not-too-dangerous
outlet for spirited enthusiasm.
Mr. Herrington. No, sir ; I do not.
Mr. Weltner. You are stating under oatli now that not a single
one of these recommended items of equipment is really a healthy
outlet for enthusiasm ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, within a rule I state that I see no use in
them.
Mr. Weltner. Look on the second page, there. It states:
In addition to the regular equipment herin [sic] listed, the proper use of the
Telephone must be given tremendous weight as an effective means of harass-
ment. * * *
I would like to ask you whether or not you feel that the telephone
is a proi:^r instrument for harassing others.
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 24
2696 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Herrington. No, sir, I cannot see how it would be.
Mr. Weltner. Have you ever seen this document before ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Herrington, on page 2, the fourth paragraph of
the document begins as follows — I refer to the fourth full paragraph :
It must always be remembered that ours is a Nocturnal Organization.
We work best at night and our greatest victories will be achieved at night.
Then it says :
Cameras do not work so well at night. We must harass the enemy at night,
and, in general have little or nothing to do with him in the daytime. * * *
AVliat victories are referred to in that statement? What is the
meaning of "our greatest victories"' where it states, "We work best
at night"?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. I have just one more question. I would like you to
take just a few seconds to glance through this document because I
would like to ask you this :
On page 1, the second paragraph, it states :
In general, harassing should always have a humorous twist to it and should
be in the nature of Halloween Pranks. * * *
That is the first line of the second full paragraph. Then you will see
the type of harassment recommended.
Do you feel that harassment such as indicated in here constitutes
a proper course of conduct for any organization in the United States?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, in my opinion, no, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Do you see anything humorous about a series of acts
of harassment such as indicated in this document?
Mr. Herrington. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Have you ever engaged in any acts of harassment
such as indicated in this document ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Herrington, in response to my question of
whether you ever engaged in any acts of harassment, I want to ask
you this : Have you ever engaged in any acts of harassment as indicated
in this document subsequent to March 30, 1965 ? That is the date this
cormnittee resolved to conduct this investigation.
Mr. Herrington. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. May I ask whether or not you have engaged in uny
such acts of harassment subsequent to February 1, 1965?
Mr. Herrington. Would you repeat that, sir ?
Mr. Weltner. Yes, sir. This is the same series of questions in an
effort to fix the base involved here. AVe asked you about March 30
because that is the date this committee undertook to conduct this
investigation. February 1 was the first date there was any widespread
discussion of the j)ossibility of an investigation by this committee.
I am merely trying to get some idea here about activity with relation
to these two things.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2697
You stated that subsequent to March 30 you have not engaged in
any acts indicated in this document. You haVe stated that under oath.
I will ask you the same question — have you engaged in any such
acts of harassment as indicated in this document subsequent to
February 1, 1965?
Mr. Herringtox. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Herrington, I have just one more question for
you. On this date, January 12, 1966, are you now a member of any
Klan organization?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused unless Mr. Appell has fur-
ther questions.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record reads that the wit-
ness declined to answer the question. I think that the witness in-
tended to state the grounds previously stated. I don't want the record
to be confused if this is what the witness intended.
Mr. Buckley. Would you like him to answer the question again?
Mr. Weltner. I will repeat the question.
Mr. Herrington, are you now on this date, January 12, 1966, a
member of any Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, on September 20, 1964, did you at-
tend a State executive meeting of the "VVliite Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan at which bombings and burnings were discussed ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that in the course of this discussion the position taken by
yourself was that you opposed church bombings unless COFO work-
ers were present, and Ernest Gilbert favored throwing heathens out,
but he opposed burnings or bombings ; that the Grand Dragon, Harper,
was against burnings; that the Grant Giant, Buckles, and the Im-
perial Wizard, Bowers, expressed the same views that you expressed ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reason previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, on September 28, 1964, did you meet
with representatives of the Pike County group of the United Klans
of America Avho were discussing with you their desire to get a case of
dynamite, some nitroglycerin, and hand grenades?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, have you ever made a statement to
law enforcement agencies in Mississippi that you have never been a
member of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to ansAver that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Herrington, in June of 1964 did you assist Thomas
B. Thrasher in establishing a Klavern of the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan at Pascagoula, Mississippi, which was comprised mostly
of employees of the Ingalls Shipyard ?
2698 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Herrington. Sir, for the reasons ]^reviously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
this witness.
The Chairjian. The witness is excused. Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Byron de la Beckwith.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand? You solemnly
swear that the testimony you w^ill give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF BYRON DE LA BECKWITH, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES G. BLACKWELL
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record.
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Byron de la Beckwith, sir.
Mr. Appell. You are appearing in accordance with a subpena served
on you on November 19, 1965, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator
of this committee ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom, Mr. de la Beckwith ?
Mr. DE LA Beckw'ith. I was born in Sacramento, California, Novem-
ber 9, 1920, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Buckley. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Blackwell. And I am Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law.
Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. de la Beckwith, under the conditions of the sub-
pena served upon you and the attachments thereto, you were ordered
and directed to bring with you, under part 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Knights of the Kn
Klux Klan and affiliated organizations, namely the Mississippi Constitutional
Council in your possession, custody or control or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as a present or past member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klans of Mississippi, also Icnown as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan.
In your representative capacity as a member of that organization, I
ask you to produce any documents in your possession.
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, in answer to your question, I could not
produce such records as those ordered by the subpena issued to me, due
to the fact that such records were, and are, not in my possession, cus-
tody, or control and I did not and do not have access to such records.
The Chairman. Did you have possession, custody, or control or were
they available to you in the representative capacity described in the
subpena, the documents called for in the subpena at any time after
March 30, 1965 ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you have such possession, custody, or control
or were such records at any time available to you since February 1,
1965? ^
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2699
Mr. DE Lu\ Beck WITH. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you take any steps, alone or witli others, to
divest yourself of such possession, custody, or control or to see to it that
they were no lon<T:er available to you so that you could take the stand
and testify as you have testified thus far?
Mr. DE LA Beckwitii. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do these documents called for in this part of the
subpena referred to exist?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Is that all, sir ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion and invoke as a defense the privilege granted to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of
America, sir.
The Chairman. Did they ever exist ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
The Chairman. Where are they now ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer tliat question, sir.
The Chairman. Who has these documents now?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
The Chairman. Did you do anything to permit yourself to be di-
vested of tliese records? For example, did you by arrangement of
any kind place them anywhere so that a third party could assume pos-
session, custody, and control of them ?
Mr. DE Lu\ Beckwith. No, sir.
The Chairjsian. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. de la Beckwith, Avould you give us your educa-
tional background?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Yes, sir. I attended grade school in Green-
wood; prep school in Tennessee; graduated from Greenwood High
School and attended one semester at Mississippi State, sir.
Mr. Appell. When did you complete your semester at Mississippi
State?
Mr. DE LA Bekwith. In 1941, I believe; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you have military service, sir?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. What was your military record ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. I was a member of the United States Marine
Corps 4 years at Guadalcanal and Tarawa. I was wounded at Tarawa
and received an honorable discharge and returned to civilian life in
1946.
Mr. Appell. What has been your employment background since
1960?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for many years I was a salesman with a
wholesale tobacco firm in Greenwood, Mississippi, and in the past 3
years I have been a salesman for a dealer in liquid-mixed fertilizers,
chemical fertilizers.
Mr. Appell. Is that the Delta Liquid Plant Food Company in
Greenwood ?
2700 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. DE LA Beckwitit. The Delta Liquid Plant Food Company, Inc.,
of Greenville, Mississippi.
Mr. xVppell. Is that whom you are employed by now?
Mr. DE LA Beck WITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. AiTELL. Mr. de la Beckwith, do you know the witness who pre-
ceded you to the stand this mornino-, Gordon Lackey?
Mr. DE LA BECKwrni. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
(juestion and invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the
5th, 1st, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. Appell. Did Mr. Lackey recruit you into membership in the
White Knig-hts of the Ku Klux Klan in August 1965 ?
Mr. DE la Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. de la Beckwith, were you in the room this morning
when I described to Mr. Lackey the incident whereby the rental prop-
erty of Mr. M. F. White which had been recently painted had been
defaced by the spraying of a black line around that property?
The Chairman. I understand the simple question is, Was he in the
hearing room ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Yes, sir ; I was here, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you assist in the act of defacing that proj^erty?
Mr, DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previosuly stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr, de la BeckAvith, in the early morning hours of
March 5, 1965, 11 quart b^er bottles filled with gasoline, with rags
held into them by 2-inch machine bolts, were thrown at the property
of Laura McGee of Greenwood, Mississippi. Do you possess any
knowledge of that, sir?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
sj^ectf ully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appfxl. Mr. de la Beckwith, on August 8, 1965, did you .attend
a State klonvocation of the "Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan held
off Elden Road in Jackson, Mississippi ?
Mr. DE LA l^ECKW^Tii. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
si)ectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appet>l. At that time were you appointed a kleagle or organizer
for the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
si>ectfitlly decline to .answer that question, sir,
Mr. Appell. If you did not violate the constitution of the "Wliite
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, why is it you have not had in your
possession since March 30, 1965, the documents called for in the
subpena ?
Mr, DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to .answer that question, sir,
Mr, Appell. Have you recently attended several rallies of the
United Klans of America?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to .answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you currently a meml>er of any Ku Klux Klan
organization?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2701
Mr. DB LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previous'ly stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions of this witness, Mr. Chair-
man.
The Chairman. Mr. de la Beckwith, you appear to be a man of
intelligence and you attended for at least one semester a university.
Would you care to describe the objectives, purposes, and programs of
the Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. DE LA Beckwith. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question, sir.
The Chairman. The Chair announces that it is the committee's
view that it would not be proper to go into matters in which this wit-
ness might have been involved as a principal but which have not been
finally resolved.
Mr. de la Beckwith. I certainly appreciate that courtesy; thank
you, sir.
The Chairman. The Chair was referring to criminal matters and I
must say to the witness that we appreciate his expression, but we have
taken that attitude because of our own determination of the propriety
of our inquiry.
The witness is excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Mordaunt Hamilton.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. You solemnly swear,
sir, the testimony you will give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Hamilton. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MORDAUNT HAMILTON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUN-
SEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES G. BLACKWELL
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, will you state your full name for the
record, please?
Mr. Hamilton. Mordaunt Hamilton.
The Chairman. And that is spelled M-o-r-d-a-u-n-t ?
Mr. Hamilton. Correct, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, you are appearing today in accordance
with a subpena served upon 3^ou on October 27, 1965, by Investigator
John D. Sullivan at the Polk Hardware Company in Hattiesburg,
Mississippi ?
Mr. Hamilton. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Hamilton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record, please ?
Mr. Buckley. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Blackwell. I am Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law. Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, under the conditions of the subpena
served upon you and the attachment thereto which was made a part
of the subpena, it calls for in paragraph 1 your production of :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
2702 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
United Klans, Knights of the Ku KIux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
I'nited Klans of America, Inc., Kuiglats of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated org-
anizations, nanaely, the Alabama Rescue Service, also the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi and the Mississippi Constitutional Council in your
possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as pres-
ent or past member of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi.
Ill your representative capacity as a member of that organization,
I ask you to produce any documents in your possession.
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, I could not produce such records as wei-e
ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not
and do not liave access to such records.
The Chairman. Did you have possession, custody, or control, or
were they available to you in the representative capacity described in
the subpena, the documents called for in the subpena, at any time after
March 30, 1965 'I
Mr. Hamilton. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did ygu have any such possession, custody, or con-
trol or were those records available to you at any time since Febru-
ary 1,1965?
Mr. Hamilton. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do tliese documents called for in the subpena exist I
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the privileges granted to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of
America.
The Chairman. Did they ever exist ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Where are they now ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Who has those documents I
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you take any steps, alone or with others, to
divest yourself of those records so that you could assume the position
and tevStify in the way you are now testifying {
Mr. Hamilton. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you permit that to occur in any way I For
example, did you by arrangement, or otherwise, with other parties
l)lace them anywhere so that you would know that you had been
divested of them?
Mr. Hamh/ion. No, sir.
The Chairman. ?Tave you ever had those documents in yoiu' pos-
session, custody, or cont rol ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Cii AIRMAN. When was the last time you had them ?
Mr. Hamh.ton. Sir, foi- the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2703
TheCiiAiRMAx. I don't catch, but we will see. Proceed.
Mr. Hamii/it)x. Sir^
The C^i I AIRMAN. I don't catch, but we will see. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. "When and where were yon born, Mr. Hamilton ?
Mr. Hamilton. I was born in Forrest County, Mississippi.
Mr. xVppell. When (
Mr. Hamilton. February 6, 1908.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Hamilton. 711 Soutli Main Street, Petal, Mississippi, an un-
incorporated coinmunity in Forrest County, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. That is P-e-t-a-1 'I
Mr. Hamilton. That is right, sir.
Mr. Appell. Would you briefly give the committee your educational
background 'i
Mr. Hamilton. I linished high school at East Forrest Consolidated
School, Forrest Courity, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. What year was that, sir 't
Mr. Hamilton. 1928, 1 believe, sir.
Mr. Appell. Since 1960 would you give the committee a brief resume
of your employment background '?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. What was that question? AVas it about his edu-
cational background ?
Mr. Appell. His employment background since 1960.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. I give it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you do business in the name of the Polk Hardware Com-
pany, 116 Market Street, Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, do you know Sam Holloway Bowers, Jr.,
the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, toward the end of 1964 or early 1965,
did the Forrest County Klavern hold a meeting in a barn owned by
you in Petal, Mississippi ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that both Imperial Wizard Bowers and Travis Ainsworth
of the White Knights attended that meeting and you pulled a gun
on them, relieved them of their guns, and told them they could not
leave the meeting until they had repaid some money which had been
turned over to Ainsworth in connection with the purchase of Klan
robes.
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that on January 25, 1965, Bowers, accompanied by some of his
Klansmen, came to your area to get revenge and left after he was
2704 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
advised by one of your Klansmen that if Bowers wanted to get you
he would have to come after yojLi ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that doing business as the Polk Hardware Com-
pany you possess a Federal firearms control gun license?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I ask you if you have sold weapons, pistols, rifles, and
ammunition to individuals you know to be members of Klan organi-
zations ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, do you know the Reverend Robert L.
Beech of Hattiesbur^, Mississippi ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. On 10-3-64 did you assault the Reverend Beech when
he came into your hardware store for the purpose of purchasing a
stepladder ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, would you repeat that question for me ?
Mr. Appell. On October 3, 1964, did you assault the Reverend
Robert L. Beech when he came into the Polk Hardware Store for the
purpose of purchasing a stepladder ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, was the assault upon Reverend Beech in
any way related to your membership in the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, on January 23, 1965, were you charged
with assault and battery and fined $25? On January 25, 1965, were
you charged with assault and battery? On February 4, 1965, were
you charged with assault and battery? And on August 10, 1965,
did you assault and strike David Nesmith ? Were all these assaults
1 have referred to, Mr. Hamilton, due to your affiliation with Klan
organizations ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. After the assault upon Imperial Wizard Bowers, did
you take the Forrest County Klavern out of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan and affiliate with the United Klans of America?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. AppEiiL. Are you currently a member of the ITnited Klans of
America?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, the committee's investigation indicates
you served as exalted cyclops of the Forrest County Klavern. Is that
information correct ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2705
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Hamilton, were you aware of the fact that orders
were issued by Imperial Wizard Bowers that the purchase of guns
from Hamilton had been canceled ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Mr. Hamilton, it has come to my attention that
the assaults mentioned by Mr. Appell were, in fact, connected with
Klan activities. Is that true or not ?
Mr. Hamilton. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Appell. Donald Leo Mathieu.
Mr. Buckley. When the witness is excused, he is finally excused ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Mathteti. Yes.
TESTIMONY OF DONALD LEO MATHIEU, ACCOMPANIED BY COUN-
SEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Mathieu.
Mr. Mathieu. Donald Leo Mathieu.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on October 28, 1965 ?
Mr. Mathieu. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Mathieu. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Blackwell. Charles Blackwell, Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Mathieu, when and where were you bom ?
Mr. Mathieu. In Pascagoula, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. When ?
Mr. Mathieu. In Jackson County, February 10, 1931.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. Mathieu. I have a seventh grade education.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee the benefit of your em-
ployment background since 1960?
Mr. Mathieu. Yes, sir.
I worked at the Ingalls Shipbuilding Corporation for approxi-
mately 2 years. I then worked for John I. Walker Shipbuilding Cor-
poration with Western Geophysical.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Mathieu, you are appearing here in accordance
to a subpena served upon you on October 28, 1965, at 2438 Ken Avenue,
Pascagoula, Mississippi ?
2706 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Mathieu. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. At the time you were served with the subpena, did you
admit to Investijjator Sullivan sitting: to my rijrht that you had been
a member of the ^V^lite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Mathieu. I res^jectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14tli amendments of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Did you know Burrel Lindsey Wliite to be the exalted
Cyclops of your Klavern ?
Mr. Mathieu. For reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you attended only two meetings of the AVhite Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan. At the second meeting you paid your $10 initia-
tion fee and you attended no further meetings because you were ad-
vised that as a Klansman, if you were ordered to kill someone by a
Klan official, that you would have to do so as a good Klansman.
The Chairman. Mr. Mathieu, the question is. Did you say that?
There is no trick in this question. 1 might tell you, as I undei"stand
the further part of that statement, you probably had left the Klan.
You know you can say that if that is true.
I will be perfectly frank with you, it was the hope of this committee
that you would say "yes" to these questions, that you quit the Klan be-
cause you said if you were ordered to kill someone by a Klan official,
you would have to do that and you did not care to do such an act.
Do not be afraid to answer that if that is true.
Mr. Weltner. Before he answers the question, I would like to state
;vlso that I am advised that this conunittee has no information con-
cerning any acts of violence or any breaches of order on the part of
this witness; that there is nothing in the investigative files to date
concerning him that indicates any more than attendance at one or
two meetings.
I make this statement simply in connection with what the chairman
stated. Apparently this witness almost got in, and got out in a Imrry.
Possibly the chairman will want the investigator to rephrase the
question at this point.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Mathieu, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you
to affirm or deny the fact, that you attended only two meetings of the
AVhite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan held at Lightseys Cabins in the
summer of 1964; that at the second meeting you paid a $10 initiation
fee; and that you attended no further meetings because you were in-
formed by Klansmen that if you were ordered to kill someone by Klan
officials, you would have to do it as a good Klansman.
Mr. Mathieu. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. .Vppell. What I ha\'e now asked you under oath has been asked
you by law enforcement officials not under oath, and I ask you if, when
you gave them tlie information that I now just stated to you, you were
telling the truth.
Mr. MvTiHEu. For reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to ansAver that question.
Mr. Appell. In light of the position taken by the witness, I have
Jio further questions to ask.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2707
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Mathieii, has any member of the Klan intimi-
dated you or made any indications to you abovit any results that might
occur if you came here and testified voluntarily ?
Mr. Matiiiei'. No, sir ; no one has tried to intimidate me.
Mr. AVeltner. Mr. Mathieu, following that along, do you have any
fears that if you were to testify fully in response to the questions put
to you, there might be some unpleasant result from members of the
Klan?
Mr. Mathieu. No, sir.
Mr. Weltnek. And the only reason you refuse to answer the ques-
tion is on the constitutional grounds stated ?
Mr. Mathieu. Will you repeat the question ?
Mr. "Weltner. The only reason you have for refusing to answer the
questions is on the constitutional grounds that you have previously
stated ?
Mr. Mathieu. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The committee stands in recess until 10 : 45.
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Willis and Weltner.)
("\Miereupon, at 4: 45 p.m., Wednesday, January 12, 1966, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 10:45 a.m., Thursday, January 13,
1966.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 1966
United States House of Representattves,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D.C.
public hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as
reconstituted for the January 13 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at
11 :15 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Wash-
ington, D.C, Hon, Edwin E, Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman ; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia ; and Del Claw-
son, of California.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Weltner,
and Clawson.
Committee member also present : Representative George F. Senner,
Jr., of Arizona.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel ; and Donald T. Appell, chief investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will please come to order.
The Chair wishes to make this brief announcement : At a meeting
of the full committee this morning, the members present unanimously
approved the recommendations of two subcommittees that certain per-
sons be cited for contempt of Congress. The recommendations by the
subcommittees, unanimously approved by the full committee, con-
cerned the following :
That Dr. Jeremiah Stamler, Yolanda Hall, and Milton Cohen, who
were witnesses subpenaed in hearings held in Chicago last May and
who refused to testify, walking out of the hearing room without being
excused from the subpena and in the defiance of directions to the con-
trary, be cited for contempt of Congress.
A second action of the full committee unanimously approved the
recommendation of this subcommittee, made last week, that Robert M.
Shelton, James R. Jones, Robert E. Scoggin, Calvin F. Craig,
Marshall R. Kornegay, George F. Dorsett, and Robert Hudgins, who,
as previously outlined, all hold high offices in klanism, likewise be cited
for contempt.
Incidentally, I, as chairman, was directed to take the usual course
of action to bring this matter to the floor of the House and that will
be done as expeditiously as possible.
2709
2710 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell, call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Louis Anthony DiSalvo.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give will be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. DiSalvo. I do.
The Chairman. I, as chairman of the full committee, hereby con-
stitute as a subcommittee for the purpose of the hearings today three
members as follows: Myself as chairman, Mr. Weltner, and Mr. Claw-
son, as members.
Let the record show that the full subcommittee is present now and
that two will constitute a quorum for the purpose of today's hearings.
Now, please be sworn.
Mr. DiSalvo, do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. DiSalvo. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF LOUIS ANTHONY DISALVO
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. DiSalvo. Louis Anthony DiSalvo.
Mr. Appell. How do you spell your last name ?
Mr. DiSalvo. D-i-S-a-1-v (as in victory) -o.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, are you appearing before the committee
this morning in accordance with a subpena served upon you in your
barber shop in Waveland, Mississippi, by Investigator Sullivan of
this committee on October 28, 1965?
Mr. DiSalvo. Yes, sir, I am.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel?
Mr. DiSalvo. No, sir, I am not.
Mr. Appell. Do you desire counsel?
Mr. DiSalvo. No, sir.
The CHAiR:\rAx. Mr. DiSalvo, I want to inform you that, although
you are not represented by an attorney, you have the right, whicli
will be respected as though you had a lawyer, to invoke the fifth
amendment and we will recognize your invocation, if you decide upon
that course.
I am quite sure you were in the hearing room when previous wit-
nesses were asked whether they were familiar with the opening state-
ment 1 made last October 19, which outlined the reasons for the
purposes of these hearings. You are generally familiar with that;
are you not?
Mr. DiSalvo. Yes, sir.
Tlie Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, Mr. DiSalvo, a mimeographed
copy of the pertinent portions of the chairman's opening statement
was given you when you arrived in Washington in accordance with
this subpena '.
The CiiAiitMAN. That is correct, is it?
Mr. DiSalvo. That is right, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2711
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, under the terms of the subpeiia and an
attoclinient thereto Avhich was made a part of the subpena, you were
ordered under paragraph 1 to bring with you and to produce:
AH books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the organization of
and the conduct of busiiness and affairs of the White Knights of the Ku Khix
Klaii of Mississippi and affiliated organizations, also the complete records of
your buying and selling of firearms and the Mississippi Constitutional Council
in your possession, custody or control or maintained by you or available to
you as member or officer of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Missis-
sippi.
In the representative capacity set forth in your subpena, Mr. Di-
Salvo, I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated
October 6, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to clo so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of niy rights as guaranteed to
me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States, and I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated
October 6, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to
the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Con-
gress in the consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor in
such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by
Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolu-
tion 8 adopted January 4, 1965.
The Chairman. Mr. DiSalvo, just as a matter of comment, I recog-
nize the wording of your refusal to produce these documents as being
a form which has been recommended to his clients by Mr. Chalmers
and I notice that you do not rely on the fact that these documents are
not, and never have been, in your possession and control as some others
have said.
Now, you do not have a lawyer, but let me explain this to you. This
subpena calls upon you to produce documents in your representative
capacity and not in your individual capacity. In other words, it does
not call upon you to produce, for example, items such as your own per-
sonal income tax and your own personal papers. It calls upon you
to produce documents that came into your possession and custody as an
official or whatever representative capacity you had with Ku Klux
Klan activities.
You understand the difference, do you?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Well, you could have safely said that you under-
stood tlie difference because that is the course of action Mr. Chalmers
represented to his clients. But since you invoke the constitutional
privileges, I again tell you that you are being asked to produce docu-
ments ni your representative capacity and, since the subpena calls
upon you to produce documents in your representative capacity, we
do not accept as valid the grounds which you have relied on for failure
to produce them. That being the case, I order and direct you to
produce them.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 25
2712 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
I say to you, though I see you are intelligent and probably know it
already, if you wish, you have the right, again, to not carry out my
order and direction. I order and direct you to produce the documents.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in its subpena dated
October 6, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to
me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America, and I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee any and all records as requested by this committee under sub-
pena dated October 6, 1965, for that information is not relevant or
germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not
aid the Congress in the consideration of any valid remedial legisla-
tion, nor in such way inquiry within the scope of that authorized
to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Con-
gress, by House Resolution 8 adopted January' 4, 1965.
The CiiAiRMAX, Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, I suggest to you — and I do not ask you
to do, but just suggest to you — that with respect to additional docu-
ments which you are called upon to produce, if you desire to use
those reasons, this committee will accept all of those reasons by a reply
on your part that you refuse to produce for the reasons previously
stated.
Paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda in your pos-
.session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capac-
ity as member or officer of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the
"Constitution and Laws" of the said organization authorize and require to be
maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being
in your possession, custody or control.
In the representative capacity set fortli in paragraph 2, Mr.
DiSalvo, I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph
2.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction.
The Chairmax. Mr. DiSalvo, for the reasons I gave a while ago,
I order and direct you to produce.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. You mean, you respectfully decline to produce the
documents on the grounds previously stated. That is what you
mean ?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October 6, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so might tend
to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America, and I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena
dated October 6, 1965, for that information is not relevant and
germane to the subject under investigation and the same will not aid
the Congress in consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2713
with such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investi-
gated by Kule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House
Resohition 8 adopted June 4, 1965.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, paragraph 4 calls upon you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control or maintained by you, which in any way refer to
the purchase or sale of firearms.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer and deliver on the
grounds previously stated.
INIr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce those documents called for in paragraph 4.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, when and where were you born?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights — in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, prior to July of 1965, did you hold mem-
bership in the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Since July of 1965, have you been a member of the
United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi, which is known under
the cover name of the Mississippi Rescue Service?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, do you hold a license under the Federal
Firearms Act as a gun dealer?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. As a member of a Klan organization, have you ever
discussed acts of violence, including the creation of firing squads and
the dynamiting of a train carrying any specific passengers?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
DiSalvo.
Louis Anthony DiSalvo was born on January 31, 1927, at New
Orleans, Louisiana. He is self-employed as an operator of a Shell
gasoline station and as the operator of Louis Barbershop. In addi-
tion thereto, as a part of his gasoline station he applied for and
received a license under the Federal Firearms Act. He completed
a 10th grade education and received a high school equivalent diploma
through an Armed Forces Equivalency Test. He served in the United
States Maritime Service from May 1945 to November 1945 and in
the United States Army from November 1945 to May of 1947, receiving
an honoraljle discharge. On June 16, 1964, Mr. DiSalvo applied for a
retail dealers license under the Federal Firearms Act. However,
prior to applying for the license he purchased between 50 and 70
2714 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE "U.S.
7.62 Finciib Sporter rifles and 30.06 Springfield rifles from J. C. New-
berry Department Store, Edgewater Plaza Shopping Center, Missis-
sippi City, Mississippi. After receipt of license he purchased, on
August 28, 1964, from Hunters Lodge, Incorporated, Alexandria, Vir-
ginia, eighteen 7.62 Russian M40 Tokarev rifles, six 30.06 Springfield
rifles, and 10,000 rounds of 7.62 Russian "M.C." ammunition.
An examination of the serial numbers of the Russian 7.62 rifles
shipped by Hunters Lodge to DiSalvo establishes that four of the
rifles were identical with rifles found in the possession of the act-
ing EC of the UKA Klaverns who was arrested and who pleaded
guilty of charges lodged against him for certain bombings in the
McComb, Mississippi, area.
DiSalvo's records, according to the ATU inspection
The Chairman. Wliat do vou mean by that?
Mr. Appell. Under the law a gun dealer must keep records of sales
of arms and ammunition, and periodically the ATU makes inspections.
The Chairman. What is the ATU ?
Mr. Appell. The Alcoholic Tax Unit.
The Chairman. Administering the gun license law ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. I am sorry.
The Chairman. Under the Treasury Department?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
The inspection reflects the sale of 12 rifles to Kelly Dunaway of
Jayess, Mississippi, and one each to Dillard Houston, Poplarville,
Mississippi, and E. Gilbert of Brookhaven, Mississippi, all members
of the Klan, Avith Gilbert at that time being the grand director of the
Klan Bureau of Investigation of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi.
At the time DiSalvo was buying and selling rifles and ammo, he
was a member of the White Knights and the exalted cyclops of a
Klavern in Hancock County. At one time DiSalvo indicated to mem-
bers of a AVhite Knights Klavern at Poplarville, Mississippi, that he
was attempting to recruit a firing squad for the Klan under the
direction of Sam Bowers, the Imperial Wizard, and himself. As a
result, members of the Klavern discussed dropping out of the White
Knights and reaffiliating with the United Klans of America. The
membership felt that not only would such a squad be used against
informants of Klan activities, but against Klansmen who were not
informants but who might be suspected.
In September of 1964, DiSalvo suggested to other Klansmen that
they could dynamite the train carrying Mrs. Lyndon B. Johnson when
she came through Mississippi. He discussed places where dynamite
may be obtained and the use of boats for possibly dynamiting a bridge
over which the train carrying Mrs. Johnson was to travel.
On July 17, 19,65, DiSalvo sat on the speakers platform at the
United Klans of America rally held at Crossroads Community, Pop-
larville, Mississippi. On October 27, 1965, DiSalvo acted as master
of ceremonies at the United Klans of America rally held at Bay
Saint I^uis, Mississippi. He claimed at this rally to have been a
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2715
member of the UKA for about 3 or 4 moiitlis. Jack Helm, Grand
Klalilf of the Eeahn of Louisiana, wlio was introduced as representing
the Greater New Orleans Citizens Council, was the principal speaker.
DiSalvo claims to hold membership in both the UKx\ and the Wliite
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. DiSalvo pos-
sesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant
to this inquiry and would materially aid Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. DiSalvo, the gentleman who made that state-
ment is Mr. Don Appell. He is the chief investigator of this com-
mittee. He is under oath, just like you are, subject to the fines and
penalties of perjury. You have heard the sworn statement of Mr.
Appell. I now give you the opportunity to reply to any portion of
that statement, to admit or deny the truth of it, to modify it in any
way. In addition, I give you tlie right and privilege, if you so desire,
to offer any other matter the committee may deem relevant to this
inquiry. And, incidentally, I agree with the statement of Mr. Appell
that you possess additional information to supply. Do you care to
avail yourself of that opportunity?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answ^er the question for the
reasons previously stated.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. DiSalvo, I will inform you, since
you offer no rebuttal, that unless other facts may come to the atten-
tion of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of
this investigation. With that in mind, have you anything to say ?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer the question for the
reasons previously stated.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Appell.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, I hand you a copy of an application for
retail dealer's license under the Federal Firearms Act, which the
Treasury Department certifies to be a copy of the original. This ap-
plication is made in the name of Ix)uis A. DiSalvo, trade name DiSalvo
Service, 264 "VVaveland Avenue, Waveland, Mississippi, dated June
16, 1964, signed Louis A. DiSalvo, independent owner. I ask you if
the signature on that application is your signature.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
grounds previously stated.
(Document marked "Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 1" appears on pp.
2716, 2717.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, I hand you a series of documents ob-
tained by the committee from Hunters Lodge, Incorporated, 200
South Union Street, Alexandria, Virginia, and ask you if the letters
contained therein signed Louis A. DiSalvo and tlie record of ship-
ment of the rifles described in tlie statement are autlientic.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer tlie question for the
reasons previously stated.
(Documents marked "Louis DiSalvo Exhibits Nos. 2A, 2B, and 2C"
appear on pp. 2717-2719.)
2716 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 1
- l-r
/ s ' /
Ji-S^i-£j±__J^^
Gn
2.
I . Ch eck wKic%
EHRenewal L2lniUal
FORM 7 (Fifco""*)
IRLV MAV IBO-
U. S. Tt*eASURV DEPARTMENT - INTERNAL nevENUE SERVICE
APPLICATION FOR LICENSE (Federal Firearms Act)
(See H ^ffucf.ons on re\-erst)
TO; Oi strict Director of Internal Revenue,
2. Name of applicant (Print) (If partnarxhip, furniih name of each pgrtnar)
2a. Employer Identlilcation No. (If ony) or individual
Social Security No. if not an employer
i'^S'-^o-ya?^
3. Trace name
2>/ -^^A o
3"er yyc^
4. Busmecs address (No. ond street, city, county, Stote) r
5. Ho.T.o address (No. and street, city, county, Stote) (If o partnership, indicate oddress of eoch portner. If o corporation, indicot*
address of principol place of business) *
(CFt^>-<L -^6/ 57y-'C ; ^^
.S 7"x iL6 •'*■ '-i
/
6. Are you presently engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing or
dealing m Firearms?
Check appropriate box or boxes
Dva
B-fSS'"^
7. It you are not presently engaged in the Firearms business, give cpproxi-
fr.ote dote oi starting in business
Date
•" > / 5=. "Sr .
8. Type of business conducted, or to be conducted . "K Jw
; I Importer LJ Ejcporter [_j Manufacturer
[_1 Gunsmith LJ Wholesale dealer
^He\a\l dealer
9. Type of license applied for ,
l] $25.00 - Manufacturer (including Importer)
Udsl.OO - Dealer (including c-)cporter, wholesale or
retail dealer, and gunsmith)
10. Remittance submitted by (moke remittance payable to TREASURER OF
THE UMITED STATES)
DCash
[g-Check
D Money order
11. Do you have a State or local license to engage in the Firearms
business .■ ■
If ontwored "Yo»," »tat« type, serial number, ond under whot juriKdiction
issued; if answered No, check oppropriote box below:
Q NOT REQUIRED [J APPLICATION SUBMITTED
Lj APPLICATION HELD PENDING ISSUANCE OF FEDERAL LICENSE
I I OTHER fExplain in a separate attachment)
C^
[Sl^
Seriol No.
Jurisdiction
12. Are you registered as a manulacturcr or dealer in Firearms under the
National Firearms Act? (United States Code, Title 26, Chapter 53) .
If answered "Yes," indicate doss and special (occupotionol) tox stomp
number .."
□ Ye
\^no
Occupational Tax Stamp No.
13. Are you registered as an Importer or Exporter of arms under regulations
issued by the Deport.xent of State (Part 122 of Title 22, Code of Federal
Regulations)?
□
Yes
B'n
Registry No.
If onsw.r.d "Yes," indict, registry number and dote of issuonce .
g>N^
Date of Issuance
l4. Hove you ovor Kod any Permit or Ltcer.se to enqo:;e in the rire<3rir.s business
denied, suspended, or revolted by Federal, State or local authorities?
If onswqrod "Yes, " give full porti cglors on od jitional sheet
DYe
The underslqnea hereby applies for a, license under the Federal Firearms Act (15 USC 903) to transport, ship, and receive iirearms
and ammunition in interstate and foreign commerce and states as follows: The applicant Is not a fugitive from justice as defined in
Title \S ll.:r 901(6) and is not under indictment for, and has never been convicted of a crln-.e punishable by imprisonment tor a term
excei*i".i:.'~ one year.
I doclare thai the above stotements are true ond correct. (Any person***who makes any statement In opplylnq fcr the llcen&e***provided (or In thia
Act, knowir.'j such statement to be false, shall upon conviction ihoreof, be flr;ad not more than $2,000 or Imprisoned for not more than live years, or
both (IS USC 005).)
15. Date of application
/i^.'Y^T
16. Signature
. oignatufe
17, iitle (Stale whether indi.vi<i;.al owner, member of
firm, or officer of corporation)
L
O i^yy.<^
CPO: I9bl O -lotict-a
FORM 7 (Firoorms) (rev. o.ea)
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, the individual who was arrested in the
McComb bombing for the part he played in certain bombings in Mc-
Comb, Mississippi, in whose possession the four rifles shown on the
invoice of rifles which vou received, was Paul D. AVilson. Did you
know Paul D.Wilson? ^
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer the question for the
reasons previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2717
Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
PRIOR LICENSC NO
Jac.'oon, ^j.st;.
I Louis A. Ei3alvo
BiSalvo Service
264 'avelar.d, Av.3.
L
Vaveland, llics.
NO AOQRESS OF APPLICANT ■ IF INCORRECT. PLEASE CORRECT)
PLOVER
NTIFICATION
i-ieen 1 if anv)
C. FOR DISTRICT DIRCCTOH
UCE ONLY
APPLICATION NO.
n DEALER
CHECK APPLICAOLE DOX ONLY)
Q MANUFACTURER (C25)
{or Importer)
APPLICATION FOR RENEWAL LICENSE - FEDERAL FIREAk..\S ACT
Tlic npplic.int U cn;:agccl m the class of biislnc&s iadlcaled above and hereby applies for a license under Cite
l''cdcr:il Kixcarms Act. Tlic applicant also states that he is not a Iiigitivc from justice as defined in Title 15 USC
1)01 (G) ar.d is not under indictment for and has never bc<;n convicted of ii crime punishable by imprisonnicnt
for a tcmi cxcccdinT one year.
a. COMPLETE IF APPLICABLE
n BUSINESS DISCONTIN-
UED {Specify date disci
I declare that the above statements arc true and correct.
0. SIGNATURE
TITLE OR STATUS (Sfule whelhtr indiviiiuai owner, member of
firm, or officer of corporatton)
Comptctc this application, cnclos* propc.- rcmittajicc. inadt psyable to "Treasurer of the U. S.", and file liNLMEDIATELY
lo avoid penalties prescribed by law. File this applicilion \vilh tlie District Director of IntcmaJ Revenue indicated in item 3.
u. s. Treasury gepartment—internal revenue service
FORM 6-* (FIREA
rev. i2-e2i
Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 2-A
DI SALVO SERVICE ' • . .
RIFLES,PARTS-AJ!MUNITION
F.F. Lie # 64-1409
SHIPP ST. WAVELAND, MISS.
PHOME: 467-5413
Hunt*B'3 Lodge Inc.
200 South Union Street
Alexandria, Virginia
August 28, 1964
oirs;
As per iiy i^one call to your comr^any on August 27, I964, I
placed an order of:
18 pes. 7.62 Russian M-40 Tokorev rifles.
6 pes. 30.06 Springfield 03A3's rifles. High numbers only.
10,000 mds. of 7.62 Russian K.C. anmO. _
I understand that the above are in a Guaranteed condition or
we Ban return or exchange; is that not correct, sir?
Enclosed is tlie check for the price total quoted me on tele-
phone. Please ship immediately, consigned to:
DiSalvo Service
Shipp Street
V/aveland, Mississippi
Please send me more information and bosks as to what you have
and discounts and quanity discounts alon- with my order.
Thanking you in advance for your kind attention;
I remain
Very truly.
Louis A. ^DiSalvo
c.c, on file
;^2^-v-i.-^-<7 ^. /cJ^ Js^f.iC-;^
.>.^^frxj^-iyy^ *'*^^'*' ^'^^"'"'"^
JX<
2718
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 2-B
jShuntfr^ lodge, inc.
■xtyj SOUTH UNION ST.
: □ THE BLADESMAN
8- IP PRINCE ST.
No. 97640
King 8-2323
ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA
Oty
BblppedTo
BtTMt
8UU
DI SALVO SERVICE
Shipp Street i>«u shippa)
Waveland, Mississippi
PHONE: 467-5413
ttippin, poirt>- ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA
DteUrad Vilu*
$980.76
"
Plrcts Artlric* DcMrlptloo
[~~| Accei»orI«i
F.P. No. jf^Jj^woll Arrm Ammonilion
ttatbt
DO NOT
USE
THIS
SPACE
PLiASE OrE.N SHIPMCNT tI*ON ARBlVAl* EXAMINE AND UNPACK MKnCHANDISE.
JF DAMAGED GET BAD ORDER REPORT AND nLE CLAIM IMMEDIATELY WITH CARRIER.
Codes:
D«U Order Etcelted
August 31, 1964
ORDERS IISIIALLT SHIPPED 72 HOURS AFTER RECEIPT
BblWtdVU: BAIL EXPRESS* PARCEL POST* UNITED PARCEL* TRICK*- AIB FREICUT « OTHEB
D D D x^ ° O
;0>-
as.
.-. r
QUANTITT
DESCRIPTION
AMOUNT
Xl8
/vSix
M-40 Russian Tokarev rifles
w/TOOLS @34.95
Model 03/A3 U.S. Spriig f i^
30-06 rifles @42.95
less 30%
T^O^OOOras 7,62mra Russian MC.ammo
@6,00 600.00
less 25% 240.00
by M.O. w/order
629.10
257,70'
886. 80\
0>-
aa
yo
266.04
620.76
360.00
980.76
980.76
000000
hm
8/31/64
■r
G
D IMPORTANT! IN ALL CORRESPONDEMCE RfFER TO ABO^f INVOlCf NUMBCR.
ALL INFORMATION PRINTED ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS SHEET IS PART Of YOUR CONTRACT.
PACKING ORDEB
SHIPPING DIVISION: I.r.ruilN TO PROCESSma
DIVISION AfTEB DISPATCHED!
c:.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Louis DiSalvo Exhibit No. 2-C
Sold
1. ''■:<^ J', /y.r, '^^ ^
V. -c, r_-
.Date:.
'y'- / C
Invoice No.
<Q
^ 7^- <-^^
.Serial No». Take
r.^r.-^lL
Item \^/:pi^.ny^///^■^6^'^^^^ -.J^t/^^^^-k:) Item:
'ITT-
1 ) JT^J^/S-
2)J^£fS^/
3) ^SjLSy^cP
4) 3S/3^S'/
^)^^9/3S<^
6) ^C53/SZ>
7)
r
\ 8)_
1 "~
: 9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14) ^_
15)
16)
17-)
18)
19)
20)
^ (1
-^ (2
(3
y
y (4
y
y (5
(6
(7
(8
(9
(10
(12
(13
(14
(15
(16
(17
(18
(19
(20
..C^J^^(?/ ^ ix
^SO
Ji/ /<o
SS<A-/
7J>&C
-^.fo
^^f6>
9^7
026^9"
Ji57^
S^/
J'/J>^
Si^32^
^9J^6>
737
^^33 ^.
'^^/<^
/•^i^
t^(2
^ (3
u^(4
^ (5
t^ (6
i^(7
w-^(8
L^ (9
(10
t-^ (11
'^ (12
t^ (13
i^ (14
l^ (15
>-^ (16
^ (17
u^ (18
(19
(20
2719
^
'■ ^
2720 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, at a meeting of the IVliite Knights of
the Ku Kkix Klan held near Raleigh, Mississippi, on June 7, 1964,
did you instruct the some 300 A^Hiite Knights gathered at a rally in the
use of poisonous snakes and the method by which a victim could be
bitten by a poisonous snake and placed in the woods in such a position
that if his body was uncovered people would think that he might have
laid down and gone to sleep and a snake had come upon him and
poisoned him?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, you were laughing. We haA^e sworn
testimony to this effect. Now you haA^e an opportunity to deny it if
it is not true.
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. DiSalvo, did you know a coleader in the Bay Saint
Louis area of Mississippi in the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
Emile Piazza ?
Mr. DiSalvo. I respectfully decline to answer that question for
reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness. I ask that, according to your previous instructions, docu-
ments referred to in the testimony of Mr. DiSalvo be entered into the
record as exhibits to his testimony.
The Chairman. The documents will be admitted in evidence. The
witness is excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Thomas Byron
Thrasher, Sr.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand, sir. Do you solemnly swear
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Thrasher. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS BYRON THRASHER, SR., ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES J. MAY III
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, please.
Mr. Thrasher. My full name is Thomas Byron Thrasher, Sr.
Mr. Appell. Spelled T-h-r-a-s-h-e-r?
Mr. Thrasher. That is true, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee in accord-
ance with the subpena served upon you by Investigator Sullivan at
2203 Ken Avenue, Pascagoula ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, I am appearing before the committee in regard
to subpena issued October 28, 1965. The address at which it was de-
livered, which you gave, is incorrect. The place was my home at 2431
Ken Avenue, Pascagoula, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. 2431 rather than 2203?
Mr. Thrasher. Yes. You have an old set of addresses and house
numbers which have been changed.
Mr. Appell. I see. Mr. Thrasher, are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Thrasher. Yes, sir, I am.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2721
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves ?
Mr. Buckley. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. May. I am Charles J. May III, attorney at law, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, under the terms of the subpena served
upon you and the attachment thereto, which was made a part of the
subpena, you were directed to bring with you and to produce the
documents called for in paragraph 1 :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, and aflSliated organizations, namely. The
Mississippi Constitutional Council, in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as past or present Exalted Cyclops of
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
In the rei^resentative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr.
Thrasher, I ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, I could not produce such records as were
ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
as were ordered by the subpena issued to me — due to the fact that such
records are not and were not in my possession, custody, or control and
T did not and do not have access to such records.
Tlie Chairman. Mr. Thrasher, do you have possession and custody
or control, or was there available to you in the representative capacity
described in the subpena, the documents called for in the subpena at
any time after March 30, 1965 ?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chadiman. Did you have possession of such documents at any
time after Februaiy 1, 1965?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you take any steps, alone or with others, to
divest yourself of the possession or custody or control of these docu-
ments so that you could take the position taken in the answers you
have given thus far ?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you take any steps, alone or with others, so
that it could be impossible for you to produce the documents today?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you have possession of those docmnents at any
time?
Mr. Buckley. Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a question off the
record ?
(Conference off the record.)
Mr. Buckley. Would you ask the question again, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman. Did you have possession, custody, or control of
these documents at any time ?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you know who has had possession and control
of these documents and who has possession or control of them at this
veiy mmute?
]\Ir. Thrasher. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the privileges gaiaranteed to me by the 5th,
1st, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
2722 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairmax. Were you a party in any way to their destruction?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, would you repeat that question, please?
The Chairman. I will lead up to it. Do you know whether or not
these records were ever destroyed, done away with in any way, or
hidden ? I am talking about from your personal knowledge.
Mr. Thrasher, Sir, in answer to your question, from my own per-
sonal knowledge I do not know.
The Chairman. Did you personally participate in their destruction ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, 1 have never participated in the destruction of
any records as required by the subpena issued to me.
The Chairman. Do you Imow who has those records now ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you have possession, custody, or control of anj^
Klan records that were not asked for in the subpena?
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, paragraph 2 called for you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your i)Os-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capacity
as Exalted Cyclops (past or present) of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require
to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being
in your possession, custody or control.
In the representative capacity set forth in that subpena, I ask you to
produce the documents called for in paragraph 2.
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
b}' the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were, and
are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, may Ave have the answer repeated?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, I could not produce such
The Chairman. You "could not." You mean, you cannot?
Mr. Thrasher. Could not.
The Chairman. I see what you mean.
Mr. Thrasher. I could not produce such records that were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were,
and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and
do not have access to such records.
The Chairman. If I asked you the same series of questions I pro-
pounded a while ago with reference to the first paragraph of this
subpena, would your answers be the same on the whole?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, in regards to my answer, assuming that the
questions were the same in regards to records, and so forth and so on,
they would be the same.
The Chairman. Counsel, I suppose, both of them, agree to the im-
port and the scope of the question I just asked and he answered.
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Counsel indicate their agreement.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, prior to June 1, IDfU, did you, with the
assitance of A. C. Herrington, organize a Klaveni of tlie White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Buckley. Did you say prior to that time ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2723
Mr. Appell. Prior to.
Mr. TiiiLVSHER. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th,
1st, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of
America.
The Chairjnian. What was the answer — the invocation ?
Mr. Appell. Yes. "Was a meeting of prospective Klansmen held
at Lightseys Cabins on South Market in Pascagoula on June 11, 1964,
which meeting consisted of between 30 and 60 employees of Ingalls
Shipyard ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. The constitution and bylaws of the Wliite Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi provide certain duties and responsi-
bilities and the maintaining of certain records by an exalted cyclops.
I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that
after the organization of this Klavern and up until March of 1965
you were the exalted cyclops of the Klavern.
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer the questions.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, I repeat a question asked earlier by
Chairman Willis, and that is whether or not you had any documents
called for by the constitution and laws of the "Wliite Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan in your possession after February 1, 1965.
Mr. Thrasher. Mr. Appell, I would like if you would, please, sir,
to clarify just what you mean by documents.
Mr. Appell. Charters, books, and records of minutes of meetings,
charter that was presented to the Klavern, and other documents which
the constitution and law provide.
Mr. Thrasher, my question related to documents in your possession
as the exalted cyclops of the unit.
Mr. Thrasher. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Then, Mr. Chairman, I consider the answer that he
had no documents in his possession as the exalted cyclops.
Mr. Thrasher, it is my opinion that you have opened the door by the
response that you gave to this last question, and I now ask you : Who
held the offices within the Klaveni of klaliff or vice president, klokard
or lecturer, kligrapli or secretary, klabee or treasurer, kludd or chap-
lain, kladd or conductor, klarogo or inner guard, klexter or outer guard,
klokan or investigator, night-hawk, and who is the assistant to the
klokard and the kladd and the klepeer, the Klavern's representative
to the klanburgesses ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, when and where were you bom?
Mr. Thrasher. I was born September 23, 1934, in Pensacola,
Florida.
Mr. Appell. What is your educational background ?
Mr. Thrasher. I attended public schools m Pensacola. I have a
graduate equivalency diploma from the Armed Forces and I attended
college at Stetson University at Deland, Florida, for apjDroximately 1
year.
Mr. Appell. What year was that ?
2724 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Thrasher. That was 1953, 1 believe, sir.
Mr. Appell. What is your military service ?
Mr. THRi\.SHER. I am a veteran of the Air Force. I served 4 years
and was honorably discharged.
Mr. Appell. What years were you in the Air Force?
Mr. Thrasher. From 1950 to 1954. It must be 1954 that I attended
Stetson University in DeLand.
Mr. Appell. What is your employment background since 1960?
Mr. Thrasher. I have been employed by the Ingalls Shipbuilding
Corporation at Pensacola.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thrasher, on March 11, 1965, was there a meeting
held at your house in which B. L. White was told that he would be
the next exalted cyclops of the Klavern ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. On March 19, 1965, was Mr. B. L. White in fact elected
as the exalted cyclops to replace you ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Did you know, or do you know, Louis Anthony DiSalvo,
who preceded you on the witness stand ?
Mr, Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Did you purchase a rifle from him ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
clilne to answer the question.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Thrasher, a cross was burned at the home of Spur-
geon Lauchaussee, the employment manager at Ingalls. Do you pos-
sess any knowledge of that cross-burning ?
Mr. Thrasher. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Thrasher. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Burrel Lindsey AVhite.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. White. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BURREL LINDSEY WHITE, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL. TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES J. MAY III
Mr. Appell. Would vou .state vour full name for the record, Mr.
White?
Mr. White. Burrel Lindsey White, Jr.
Mr. Appell. Would you s])ell your first name, please, sir?
Mr. White. B-u-r-r-e-1.
Mr. Appell. Mr. White, are you appearing before the committee to-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2725
day in accordance with a subpena served upon yon by John D. Sullivan,
an invest i<2:ator of this committee, on October 28, 1965, at the General
Building Supply in Gulfport, Mississippi.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Was that the 28th of October, sir?
Mr. Appell. Yes.
Mr. White. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. White?
Mr. White. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify tliemselves for the record?
Mr. Buckley. I am Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Spring,
Mississippi.
]Mr. May. I am Charles J. May III, attorney at law. Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wliite, the subpena served upon you, which I
understand should be amended to include the designation "Jr.,"' called
upon you to bring with you and to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, and affiliated organizations, namely, The Missis-
sippi Constitutional Council, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained
by you or available to you as past or present Exalted Cyclops of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans
of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
In the representative capacity set forth in that document, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.
(AVitness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that sucli records were not
and are not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do
not have access to such records.
The Chairman. Have you ever had possession of those documents
or control or custody of them at any time?
(Witness confers wdth counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Do you know where those documents are ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know who has possession of them ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you now have, or have you ever had, any Klan
documents in your representative capacity as stated in the subpena
not called for by the siibpena ?
(Witness confers watli counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know wliether the documents called for,
or any others, have been destroyed by you or anyone else?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
2726 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously sfcated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you participate or have knowledge — partici-
pate in or have knowledge of the destruction of these documents?
(AVitness confers with counsel.^
Mr. White. No, sir; not such records as required by the subpena.
The Chairman. Well, did you participate in, or do you have knowl-
edge of, the destruction of documents — Klan documents — not called
for by the subpena?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. White, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, Mr. White, it is a part of the
operating procedure of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan to
do things as follows: When you recruit a man into the organiza-
tion to immediately burn his application ; and with respect to financial
documents, that once they have served their purpose they are to be
burned; and that, to maintain the security of the White Knights,
destruction of documents is supposed to take place as soon as pos-
sible in order to cut down on the risk of exposure of either the Klan
or its members.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. White, in paragraph 2 you are requested to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
officer or member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Consti-
tution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by
you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession,
custody or control.
In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.
Mr. White. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were,
or are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and
I do not liave access to such records.
The Chairman. If I asked the same series of questions that I did
a moment ago, would your answer to them under oath be the same?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Would you state that again ?
Tlie Chairman. Would (he answer be the same that you gave a while
ago if I repeated the questions I asked a while ago?"^
Mr. White. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do counsel agree tliat the scope of this question is
proper under the circumstances?
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. May. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. "Wliite, when and w here were you born ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2727
Mr. White. When or where, sir?
Mr. Appell. When and where.
Mr. White. September 11, 1914, at Laurel, Jones County, Missis-
sippi.
Mr. Appell. What is your educational background ?
Mr. White. I am a graduate of the Laurel High School. I at-
tended all Laurel public schools ; graduating in 1932.
The ChairmxVn. From public schools ?
Mr. White. From the public schools.
The ChairjMan. You are not talking about higher education. If
you did, proceed.
Mr. White. I have no formal higher education. However, I did
later, Mr. Willis, attend some vocational schools.
Mr. Appell. What has been your employment background since
1960?
Mr. White. In a portion of 1960 I was self-employed and I also
was working for the Frank Gardner Hardware Company of Laurel,
Mississippi. Xow, I am not sure as to the dates because I worked for
that firm on two different occasions. I worked also for the J. C. Martin
Lumber Company of Waynesboro; the St. Louis Field Terminal Ware-
house Company of St. Louis, Missouri ; the General Building Supply
Company, Inc., of Gulfport, Mississippi; the Lawrence Warehouse
Company. And the General Building Supply Company has since
clianged their name to General Homes. I would like to clarify that
just a little. These warehousing companies, for instance, the Law-
rence Warehouse Company now is my legal employer. However, I
work for them but render service to General Homes, Inc., as a bonded
warehouseman.
Mr. Appell. Mr. White, since 1960, have you had or did you receive
income from sources •
Mr. Chairman. I did not catch it.
Mr. Appell. Since 1960 did you receive income from sources other
than those you have enumerated in your employment background?
Mr. White. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Would you enumerate them ?
Mr. White. I liave an apartment house in Laurel, Mississippi.
We have two apartments or did have two apartments that we rented
out. We lived in one until about 2 years ago. At present we have
three apartments that we try to keep rented. I also received other
commissions. I was a free-lance salesman, as I said, employed by
myself for a while and sought any item that was salable to the build-
ing trades. In that capacity I represented the Laurel Brick & Tile
Company of Laurel, Mississippi, and the Standard Block Company
of Gulfport, Mississippi. I believe those are all.
Mr. Appell. Did you receive any income in the form of reimburse-
ment for recruiting or expenses from an organization knoAvn as the
White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. White, are you acquainted with the VCM Club in
Pascagoula ?
Mr. Weltner. What club ?
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 26
2728 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. AppELL. VCM.
The Chairman. What is the question ?
Mr. Appell. Is he acquainted with it, with the fact that it exists.
The CuAiRiiAx. The what?
Mr. Appell. "V" as in Victor, "C'' as in Charles, "M" as in Mary.
The Chairman. What is that ? All right, ask the question.
(Witness confers Avith counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, could you make that question a little more specific ?
In what way do you want me
Mr, Appell. Do you know of the existence of a building known as
the VMC Club. I mean VCM.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I do know of the existence of it. I know nothing
else of the operation.
Mr. Appell. At that club on March 19, 1965, did you become exalted
Cyclops of the Klavern of the AVliite Knights in the Pascagoula,
Mississippi, area?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Mr. Thrasher who preceded you to the
witness stand?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Were you advised at a meeting wliich took place in
Mr. Thrasher's house on March 11, 1965, that you would be the next
exalted cyclops of the Klavern ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Are you presently a member of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appei>l. Mr. White, do you possess knowledge of the fact that
two Klaverns in the Pascagoula area have recently disaffiliated with
United Klans of America and become affiliated with the Wliite
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question,
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of Mr. White.
Mr. Weltner. I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. "\\niite, on page 6 of the constitution of the White Knights —
could I ask that the witness be afforded a copy of that ? Page 6, Section
12, there is this section — "This Constitution and all LaAvs enacted
pursuant to it" — and then the following is in capital letters —
SHALL BE THE SUPREME LAW OF THE WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE
KU KLUX KLAN OF THE SOVEREIGN REAL:\I OF MISSISSIPPI. AND
BINDING THEREOF UPON ALL MEMBERS, REGARDLESS OF RANK.
I would like to know whether you consider this constitution to be
a higher power than the Constitution of the United States.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2729
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Are you asking me, sir, to confirm or deny a fact, or
are you asking for my own personal opinion ?
Mr. Weltner. I will restate the question. Bearing in mind Sec-
tion 12 of the constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
which states that the constitution and laws of the Wiite Knights —
SHALL BE THE SUPREME LAW OF THE WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE
KU KLUX KLAX OF THE SOVEREIGN REALM OF MISSISSIPPI, AND
BINDING THEREOF UPON ALL MEMBERS", REGARDLESS OF RANK.
I am asking you whether or not you personally consider this con-
stitution, a copy of which you hold in your hand, to be a higher au-
thority upon you than the Constitution of the United States ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. I do not so consider it.
(Document previously marked "Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 2.")
Mr. Weltner. Do you consider the Constitution of the United States
to take precedence over the constitution of the White Knights of the
Sovereign Kealm of Mississippi?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. I believe, sir, that the Constitution of the United States
takes precedence over all laws, except the laws of God.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. White, have you ever subscribed to an oath to
support this constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Are you familiar with Article XII of the constitu-
tion of the "Wliite Knights, or were you familiar with it prior to the
time some few minutes ago when a copy was handed to you?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Have you ever subscribed to the oath appearing
on page 38 of that document which you have in your hand that says :
I swear that I will never be the cause of a breach of secrecy or any other act
which may be detrimental to the integrity of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi.
That appears on page 38 of the constitution.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. White, I hand you a copy of a document en-
titled ''Imperial Executive Order," bearing date May 3, 1964, ad-
dressed to all officers and members, subject, "Forthcoming Enemy
attack and countermeasures to be used in meeting same," with the
notation at the top reading :
TTIIS ORDER WILL BE READ TO OR BY AND UNDERSTOOD BY EVERY
MEMBER OF THIS ORGANIZATION.
I will ask you to examine that and state to us whether or not you
have ever seen such a document as this by this date.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
2730 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Burrel White Exhibit No. 1." See committee
report. The Present-Day Ku Klux KJan Movement^ pp. 169-171.)
Mr. Weltxer. I call your attention to a section of this. On page
2, the third full paragraph, reads as follows :
Any Personal attacks on the enemy should be t-arefuUy planned to include
onhj the leaders and prime white collaborators of the enemy forces. * * *
Mr. Buckley. Pardon me, Mr. AVeltner, we cannot hear you.
Mr. Weltner. I am reading from paragraph 3 of page 2. That
portion in the approximately center of that paragraph :
Any Personal attacks on the enemy should be carefully planned to include only
the leaders and prime white collaborators of the enemy forces. These attack ;
against these selected, individual targets should, of course, be as severe as
circumstances and conditions will permit. * * *
What kind of attacks are contemplated in the instruction of this
Imperial Executive Order of May 3, 1964 ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I do not quite understand your statement. I am
afraid I could not intelligently answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. All right, sir. Can you enlighten this committee,
after having read that document, which, according to its face, is
required to be read and understood by every member of the organiza-
tion— can you enlighten this committee as to what kind of attack is
meant by the language that says :
Any Personal attacks on the enemy should be carefully plamied * * * should
[, of course,] be as severe as circumstances [and conditions] will permit. * * *
What is meant by that? This committee is seeking information
and we believe that you can provide us that information.
I am asking you what this document means by ''Personal attacks
on the enemy."
(Witness confers with comisel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I have not had ;i chance really to examine and
full}' understand this document here and I am afraid I just cannot
really answer that question intelligently.
Mr. Weltner. Are you testifymg you have never seen this docu-
ment before today ?
Mr. White. No; I am not saying that, sir. But I am saying that
I have not had a chance to examine this document right here, right
now, and I cannot intelligently answer the question you ask. I just
do not understand tliis document.
Mr. Weltner. The reason I ask that specifically, Mr. AVhite, is
because I asked you a minute ago whether or not you had ever seen this
document prior to today, and you refused to answer. Then you stated
a moment ago that you had not had a chance to examine tliis document.
I want to be absolutely clear, and I will ask you again just to be
certain that we understand each other, my question is : Have you prior
to this day ever seen this document. Imperial Executive Order dated
May 3, 1964?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, to the best of my knowledge, I have never seen this
document until right now.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2731
Mr. Weltner. We are not playing games. I do not mean the two
pieces of papers tliere. I mean the original of the document.
Mr. White. The original of such document.
Mr. Weltner. Or any copy thereof ?
Mr. White. Or any copy thereof,
Mr. Weltner. Have you ever seen any paper entitled "Imperial Ex-
ecutive Order" emanating from the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of the Sovereign Realm of Mississippi ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Let me ask you this — If the investigator w^ould hand
this witness the Executive Lecture of March 1, 1964, and I shall, with
the Chairs indulgence, permit counsel and the witness to examine that
before the next question.
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. White. Mr. Weltner, sir, in answer to that question
Mr. Weltner. I have not asked the question yet, Mr. White.
Mr. White. Pardon me.
Mr. Weltner. I was just giving you and your counsel an oppor-
tunity to examine the document.
Mr. White. Pardon me, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Let me ask you this question : If you will look on the
fourth page of that document, under the paragraph headed, "Propa-
ganda,"' about 10 lines down, there is this language:
There are three ways that we can destroy an atheist or traitor in the commuoity.
They are : 1. Socially. 2. Economically. 3. Physically. The weapon of propa-
ganda can accomplish the first two in nearly all cases, and it should at least
preceed [sic] and follow up the Action in the third case, if practical. * * *
What I would like to ask you is : Have you ever seen such a docu-
ment as this prior to today ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, to the best of my knowledge, I have never seen this
document before.
(Document marked "Biirrel White Exhibit No. 2."' See coimnittee
report. The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement^ pp. 164—168.)
Mr. Weltner. Have you ever heard any discussion among the Klan
members concerning the social, economic, or physical destruction of
any person tenned "an enemy" ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. I think that is all the questions I have at this time,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Wliite, in response to Mr. Appell's question,
wliether or not you Imew of the VCM, I believe your answer was that
you knew about its existence, but nothing else. The second question
was, Were you not elected as exalted cyclops at the VCM ? And you
took the fifth amendment. Would you explain to this committee the
difference between those two answers? Would you elaborate on it?
(Witness confers w4th counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, I would like to ask if this answer will suffice. I
know the approximate location of the building. In fact, I know the
road it is located on. But that is all the knowledge I have of the
place.
2732 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Senner. Then what would be the reason of invoking the fifth
amendment to the question whether or not 3'ou were elected as exalted
Cyclops of that particular club or VCM ?
Mr. White. Sir, I gave this answer to keep from leading to further
questions which might possibly — the answers to which might possibly
tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. White, since we have been talking about VCM,
})erhaps you can enlighten me. I understand that could be the name of
a building or probably, more accurately, VCM stands for Veterans
Club Mississippi. Is that your understanding of what VCM means?
Mr. White. I have no idea what the initials stand for.
The Chairman. I am delighted with your answer under oath. De-
spite whatever else was asked of you, I think Avhat I am about to ask
was asked of you and you invoked the fifth amendment. You give the
appearance of a man of intelligence. You have answered some ques-
tions such as the last one under oath, and I assume truthfully. Now,
under oath, while you are on the stand, I want to ask you two questions :
Are you now or have you ever occupied an official position in any Klan
organization ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Although it may be repetitious, I will ask you
again: Are you at this very moment a member of any Klan orga-
nization ?
Mr. White. Sir, for* the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, if I may get back to this VCM, isn't it
a fact that you did attend a meeting at the VCM and were inside that
club?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. And still you want the committee to believe your state-
ment to this committee that you just know about the existence of the
VCM, but you know nothing else ?
Mr. White. AVould you repeat that question, sir ?
Mr. Senner. Mr. Reporter, will you read it to him ?
The Reporter. [Reading:]
And still you want the committee to believe your statement to this committee that
you just know about the existence of the VCM, but you know nothing else?
Mr. White. Sir, I gave that statement under oath and I expect the
committee to believe it. It is a true statement.
Mr. Senner. I will ask you again : Is it not a fact that you attended
a meeting at the VCM club and were inside that club ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. One last question: At that meeting, or one of those
meetings that you attended at the VCM club, isn't it true that you were
elected exalted cyclops ?
Mr. White. May I have the question read ?
Mr. Senner. Yes.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2733
The Reporter. [Reading :]
At that meeting, or one of those meetings that you attended at the VCM club,
isn't it true that you were elected exalted cyclops?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. I think the record is clear now.
The C/HAiRaiAN. I have one final question. Were you elected exalted
cycloids at any time or at any other place ?
Mr. White. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The committee stands in recess until 2 :30 this afternoon.
(Members present : Representatives Willis, Weltner, and Clawson, of
the subcommittee, and also Representative Senner.)
(Whereupon, at 1 :10 p.m., Tliursday, January 13, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 :30 p.m. the same day. )
AFTERNOON SESSION— THURSDAY, JANUARY 13, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :50 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Weltner,
and Clawson.)
The Chairman. The subcommittee will be in order.
Mr. Appell, you may call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. J. W. Holder.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
tlie truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Holder. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH WALTER HOLDER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES J. MAY III
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Holder.
Mr. Holder. My full name is Joseph Walter Holder.
Mr. Appell. H-o-l-d-e-r?
Mr. Holder. That is right.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing today in accordance with a sub-
peona served upon you on October 27, 1965, at R.F.D., Louin, Mis-
sissippi ?
Mr. Holder. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, are you represented by coimsel ?
Mr. Holder. Yes, I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Would comisel identify themselves for the record?
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. May. Charles J. May III, attorney at law. Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, when and w^here were you born?
Mr. Holder. I was bom in Ted, Mississippi, in Smith County.
Mr. Appell. And the month, day, and year?
Mr. Holder. 1933, January 31.
2734 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Briefly outline your educational background.
Mr. Holder. Well, I attended school — started to school at Louin, to
the best of my ability, I spent 1 year there and finished the 12th grade
at Sylvarena.
Mr. Appell. Since 1960, would you give the committee your employ-
ment background ?
Mr. Holder. I have been employed by Masonite Corporation of
Laurel, Mississippi, from 1958 up until the present time.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, are you presently a member of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed me by the 5th amend-
ment, 1st, and 14th amendment of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, did you know Ottis Matthews, the finan-
cial secretarv^ and assistant business manager of the International
Woodworkers of America Local in Laurel, Mississippi? Did you
know him?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, do you possess any knowledge which re-
lates to a flogging of Mr. Matthews on November 16, 1964?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Matthews, prior to his death, identified you as one
of a group of masked men that drug him from his automobile on the
night of November 16, 1964, drove him to nearby dump grounds,
forced him to lie face down, and beat his bare buttocks
The Chairman. I can't understand you. You are either too far
away or too close to the mike. I can't understand what you are
saying.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Matthews, before his death, identified you as one
of a gi-oup of masked men who forced him from his vehicle on the
night of 11/16/64, drove him to a nearby dump grounds, forced him
to lie face down, and beat his bare buttocks with what was believed to
be a leather strap. Some solution was poured on wounds before these
persons left him.
Were you involved in this according to the statement made to Inves-
t igator Sullivan by the late Mr. Matthews?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, if he made that statement, 1 was not involved.
^Mr. Appell. As a member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, do you know who was involved ?
(Witness confei-s with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, I respe<?tfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Holder, did you as an individual participate in this
act of violence against Mr. Cttis Matthews ?
Mr. Holder. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Were you in an automobile on the night of Novem-
ber 16, 1964, either on the parking lot of Sam Holloway Bowers or in
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2735
a car near the bridge on the road past the Masonite plant? That is
Xovember 16, 1964.
("Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, I don't remember where I was on that date.
Mr. Appell. I asked you if you were in either one of two auto-
mobiles. The one parked there or the one parked on the bridge ?
("Witness confers with counsel.)
The Chairman. "What is the pending question ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I worked at the Masonite Corporation, and the
parking lot is close by this vicinity you are talking about. I work
shift work. My car could be there, but as far as the date is concerned,
I couldn't say definitely. I don't remember the date.
Mr. Appell. What knowledge do you possess of the beating or flog-
ging of Ottis Matthews ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Absolutely no personal knowledge of it.
Mr. Appell. Personal knowledge? I asked you what knowledge
you possessed, no matter from what source it came.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, it was either 1 or 2 days after this had taken
])lace that I found it out. I was in the bathroom with a bunch of
men — restroom, I beg your pardon — and they was discussing it and
that was the first knowledge that I had ever attained of it.
Mr. Appell. Who were these men that were
Mr. Holder. I don't have any idea. I don't remember. It was
just a gang of them, and things like that you don't actually remember.
Mr. Appell. What was this discussion ?
Mr. Holder. Well, it was talking about, laughing about Ottis
Matthews getting a w^hipping. The majority of them said, "Well, they
didn't believe it" and were carrying on like that, you know. It was
more or less a joke. As far as I was concerned, I didn't believe it
either. I didn't see it ; I don't know anything about it.
Mr. Appell. Was the position of Ottis Matthews against the Klan
and the effort on the part of the Klan to take over the Masonite Local,
was this discussed within the Klavern of the White Knights?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense that privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th and
1st and 14th amendment of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. Appell. Under the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and
the Klavern with which you were affiliated, were there appointed men
under the leadership of the klokan who carried out functions which
are described in some other Klan groups as "wrecking crews" ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever serve on such a crew?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Who was the exalted cyclops of the Klan to which you
were affiliated ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
2736 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE V.&.
Mr. Appell. Do yoii possess any knowledge of any violence carried
out by members of the Klavem of the White Knights to which you
were affiliated ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Are vou presently a member of the White Knights of
theKuKluxKlan? '
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Is the membership of your Klavem composed mostly
of employees of the Masonite Company ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of this witness.
The Chairman. Mr. Holder, you stated that at times you did park
your automobile, as I undei^tood, near the Masonite plant and that it
may or may not have been parked at that place upon the occasion
stated. However, Mr. Appell had also asked Avhether your car was
eitlier parked there or at a lot near a Sam Bowers' place.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Buckley. Did you say "ever" ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. You said that your car may or may not have been
parked near a bridge at the end of the Masonite plant upon the oc-
casion stated. Now, I am asking you whether your car was parked
next to Sam Bowers' place on that occasion ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, to the best of my ability to remember, I wasn't
even working that night, but was at home.
The Chairman. I am not talking about wdiere you were. I am ask-
ing whether on the occasion stated your car was parked near Sam
Bowers' place?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I don't remember where my car was on the par-
ticular night you are referring to.
The Chairman. Sam Bowers, according to our infonnation, is the
Imperial Wizard of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Missis-
sippi. Do you know him ?
(Witness confer with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Have you ever visited Sam Bowers at his home or
residence ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Holder. Sir, for tlie reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Have you met him at Kh\n meetings?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Have you ever heard him make a speech or speeches
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2737
exliorting members of the White Knitjhts of the Ku Klux Klan to
violence ? Our information is that you did.
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. We have information that Mr. Bowers has brought
Klan members to quite a pitch of excitement ; is that true ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. You said that a day or two after the Matthews
incident you heard about it in a restroom wdth a number of people
and you said that the majority expressed the opinion that they did
not believe the incident. Who made that statement ?
Mr. Holder. I heg your pardon, sir ?
The Chairman. Who made that statement?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I don't remember anyone in particular. It was
just a gang of men, and they are as comical a bunch of men as I ever
worked with and if they can get a joke or a laugh out of anything,
that is as good as they want.
The Chairman. And you said that gang of men, the humorous
group, expressed the opinion that it was all a joke. Is that right?
Mr. Holder. Would you repeat that again? I didn't understand it.
The Chairman. You said the gang of men, wdiom you described as
being a humorous group, said they thought the Matthews incident
was a joke. Is that correct ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I have a memory here, and I say that some didn't
really think it had taken place and some was laughing about it, you
know.
The Chairman. I have a note before me which I made as you were
talking, saying that "I thought it was a joke," meaning that you your-
self thought it was a joke. Did you?
Mr. Holder. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What made you think it was a joke ?
Mr. Holder. Well, sir, I will go back to the point again that these
men around there are the most comical bunch of men I have ever
worked with, and they are always starting a big thing and want to
tell something to get a laugh, or something, and that is what we
thought it was.
The Chairman. You mean to say you thought what had happened
to Matthews was a laughing matter, something to discuss as being a
laughing matter with a group of friends. Is that correct ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I considered it as a rumor and more or less a joke.
The Chairman. Now I am asking you this question as well : Was it
said in that restroom that this action, if it had taken place, was the
action of someone from out of your State, away from your area, that
had performed the action in order to pin it on the Klan? We have
heard that many times.
Mr. Holder. Sir, I don't recall a statement like that. It could have
been made, but I don't recall it.
The Chairman. Isn't it a fact that on many, many occasions when
acts of violence took place in your area, it was almost invariably
spread about by other persons in the community that those acts of vio-
lence had happened, were made to take place by people from out of
2738 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
State, out of the area, as a propaganda move to make people believe
that they were Klan actions in an effort to discredit the Klan ? And I
will repeat to you that we have heard much of that.
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the. reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Tlie Chairman. Isn't it a fact that when certain people met wdth
death or tragic accidents in your State, in your area, that it was the
practice of the Klan to take that position ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Well, I will state to you as a fact that in all instances
of violence, killing, when those representations were made to the effect
that those things were done by persons who were foreign to the area,
according to our investigation we have never found that to be true.
"Would you have one instance of a killing or an act of violence or a cross-
burning or bombing or anything else where those acts were, in fact,
performed by people away from the State or away from the area ? Can
you name me one such instance ? If you do, we will look into it as care-
fully as we did the others and try to verify it. Can you name me one
such instance ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you personally — and you are under oath and
must be right with your own conscience — ever make any such state-
ment to the effect that, "Oh, this and that happened. There they go
again. It was done by somebody away from here, but they are trying
to pin it on this fine, patriotic organization." Did you ever make that
st atement ?
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Mr. Weltner.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Holder, do you know the identity of any one or
more of the individuals who were involved in the incident of Novem-
ber 16, 1964, involving Mr. Ottis Matthews ?
Mr. Holder. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. You know of no person involved in that matter ?
Mr. Holder. No, sir ; I sure don't.
Mr. Weltner, Had you ever heard any discussions concerning some
kind of acts of violence or intimidation to Mr. Matthews prior to
November 16, 1964?
Mr. Holder. Wliat is that?
Mr. Weltner. Prior to November 16, 1964, had you ever heard any
person or persons discuss possiblv bringing some action against Mr.
Matthews?
Mr. Holder. Sir, I can't recall if I did or not.
Mr, Weltner. You don't recall hearing any discussions about it?
Mr, Holder, No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Subsequent to that date, did you ever hear any dis-
cussion of that incident in any Klan meeting? '
Mr. Holder. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Wfxtner, I have no further questions.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2739
The Chairman. Don, do you have anything- more ?
Mr. AppELL. No, sir.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Kex Henry Pierce.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear the testimony you are about to give, sir, will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Pierce. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF REX HENRY PIERCE, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES J. MAY III
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Pierce. Rex Henry Pierce, Jr.
Mr. Appeix. Mr. Pierce, are you appearing before the committee
today in accordance with the subpena served upon you on November
1, 1965, at Vicksburg, Mississippi, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator
of this committee?
Mr. Pierce. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Pierce. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. May. Charles J. May III, attorney at law, Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Pierce. I was born in Vicksburg 3/14 and 40.
Mr. Appell. I didn't get it, sir. Sit a little closer to the mike.
Mr. Pierce. March 14, 1940.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, will you give the committee a brief resume
of your educational background?
Mr. Pierce. I graduated from Culkin Academy in 1958.
Mr. Appell. What year, sir?
Mr. Pierce. 1958.
Mr. Appell. I didn't get the year.
Mr. Pierce. 1958.
Mr. Appell. Thank you, sir.
Since 1960, would you give us a brief resume of your employment
background ?
Mr. Pierce. Sir?
Mr. Appell. Since 1960, would you give us a brief resume of your
employment background?
Mr. Pierce, I believe since 1960 I worked for the Anderson Tully
Company.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, are you presently a member of any Klan
organization ?
Mr. Pierce. I respectfully decline to answer that question and in-
voke as defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Have you held the position of investigator for the
Warren County Klavern of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
2740 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, do you have a criminal record ?
Mr. Pierce. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of
privilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to
the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Pierce.
On March 14, 1965, Kex Pierce, Jr., and Milton Stokes were in the
Vicksburg Cafe in Vicksburg, Mississippi, seated on stools at the front
of the counter when a 77-year-old Negro, Thomas Montgomery, en-
tered and walked towards the rear of the cafe. As Montgomery seated
himself upon a stool, either Pierce or Stokes said to the proprietor,
"You don't mean that thing can eat in here?" At this point Pierce
and Stokes got up, went back to where Montgomery sat, threw raw
eggs in his face, knocked him to the floor, and kicked him. En route
to the door they turned over some tables in the restaurant and smashed
the glass out of the front door with their elbows.
On March 21, 1965, a man in an automobile owned by Milton Stokes
and fitting the description of Pierce threw a Molotov cocktail from
the car w^iich broke against the wall of the cafe. He got out of the
car and threw a second Molotov cocktail through the window of the
cafe, causing extensive damage. At the time of this incident, both
Milton Stokes and Rex Pierce, Jr., were members of the White Knights
of Ku Klux Klan of Missisippi
In July 1965, Pierce was a kleagle or organizer for the Warren
County Klavern of the White Knights. Harold L. Miller was the
exalted cyclops of the Klavern at the same time, and Jasper Buford
w^as its klaliff or vice president. Members of the Klavern included
Beauregard Buford, Lonnie Lee Frith, and Louis M. Shaw, who were
arrested for burning a cross on July 5, 1965, and all three forfeited
$100 bond.
Rex Pierce, Jr., was indicted on August 25, 1960, at Jackson, Missis-
sippi, and on February 23, 1961, at Biloxi, Mississippi, for bootleg-
ging. On May 15, 1961, he pleaded guilty, was fined $500, and given
6 months in jail, with fine and sentence suspended and placed on pro-
bation for 6 months.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Pierce possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Pierce, you have heard the sworn statement
of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to
reply to any portion of that statement, confirm or cliallenge the
accuracy of the information, or explain any part of it. In addition,
you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the committee may
deem relevant to the inquiry. Do you care to avail yourself of this
opportunity ?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Pierce, I must inform you that
absent your rebuttal, or facts that may come to the attention of the
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2741
committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investi-
gation. Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, on August the 11th, 1961, in the Oakridge
section of Warren County two Negro families were beaten by 12 to 18
men dressed in white sheets and wliite hoods. The families beaten
were that of Lucy and Henry Ollins and Tom Hicks. The only expla-
nation for the action by the men dressed in white sheets and white
hoods was that these two families — one had been visited by GOFO
workers and the other had permitted a COFO worker to remain in
his home overnight. Do you possess any knowledge of this inci-
dent, sir?
Mr. Pierce. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, in September 1901, Buck's Store on old
Highway 80, several miles east of Vicksburg towards Bovina, Missis-
sippi, was shot into. There were nine shots fired from what was
identified to be a .38-caliber weapon, and six went into the store.
Do you possess any knowledge of this incident?
Mr. Pierce. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. On October 4, 1964, at 2 :50 a.m. the COFO house in
Vicksburg, which is located on the corner of Hossley and Grove
Streets, was bombed and a large portion of the liouse destroyed. Do
you possess any knowledge of that action?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. On Marcli 18, 1965, Mary Anderson's cafe was bombed
with a jug of gasoline and it burned out the inside of the cafe. She
is the colored woman who pennitted COFO workers to eat in her
cafe. Do you know anything about that instance?
Mr. Pierce. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. On June 19, 1965, firebombs were thrown into a door-
less garage at the home of Herman Varva, who was head of the
personnel at the Westinghouse plant. Do you know anything about
that incident?
Mr. Pierce. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. In November 1965, Mr. Pierce, were you driving a
1950 Ford automobile at any time?
Mr. Pierce. Sir?
Mr. Appell. In November of 1965 were you driving a 1950 Ford
automobile at any time?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. On November 29, 1965, a 1950 Ford automobile was
loaded with dynamite and left at the corner of Halls Ferry Road and
Bowmar Street in Vicksburg, Mississippi, where it exploded, wreck-
ing the store and home of James Chiplin. Do you know anything
about that incident, sir?
2742 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. This car had been taken in trade by McKay Motors in
Vicksbur^, Mississippi. Do you spend quite a bit of your time at
McKay Motors?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for tlie reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Pierce, the Ford vehicle that detonated the dyna-
mite it contained on November 29, 1965, destroyed or did damage to
the home and blew the son of the investigator of this committee out
of the bed.
The Chairman. Did damage to what ?
Mr. Appell. Did damage to the home and blew the son of the in-
vestigator of this committee, Mr. Sullivan, out of bed. Was that car
planted to do damage to the Negro property tliat was damaged, or as
an act against the investigator of this committee?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, would you please repeat that question ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. When this 1950 Ford car exploded on Xo-
\ember 29, 1965, it damaged the home of the investigator of this com-
mittee, Mr. John Sullivan, and blew one of his children out of the bed.
I ask you whether or not that car was placed there to destroy the
property of tlie Negro wliose property was destroyed, or whether it
was placed there as an act of intimidation against an investigator of
this committee?
Mr. Pierce. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask Mr.
Pierce,
The Chairman. Tlie witness is excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas Gunter,
The Chairman. Call him again.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas Gunter.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear, sir, the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Gunter. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS A. GUNTER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JIM PHYFER
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Gunter.
Mr. Gunter. Thomas A. Gunter.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with subpena
served upon you on November 8, 1965, at 227 East Pearl Street, in
Jackson, Mississippi ?
Mr. Gunter. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Gunter. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself?
Mr. Pm-FER. Jim Phyfer, 518 East Pascagoula Street, Jackson,
Mississippi.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2743
Mr. ^Vppell. Mr. Gimter, when and where were you born ?
Mr. GuNTER. I was born in Adams County, Mississippi, May 16,
1927.
Mr. Appell. "Wliere do you presently reside?
Mr. GuNTER. 94:4: Woodville Drive, Jackson, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. GuNTER. I have finished Utica High School.
Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee a resume of your em-
ployment background since 1960 ?
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the Ignited States.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, the subpena served upon you called for
you to bring with you and produce, according to attachment which was
made a part of the subpena :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated organizations, namely Capitol
Blueprint and Supply Company all printing and records concerning same for
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi and Mississippi Con-
stitutional Council, in your possession, custody or control or maintained by
you or available to you as president and owner of the Capitol Blueprint and
Supply Company.
In the representative capacity set forth in the subpena, Mr. Gunter,
I ask you to produce those documents.
Mr. Gunter. Sir, I object to the introduction of any records in the
proceedmg on the grounds of the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments
to the Constitution of the United States.
The Chairman. Wait a minute. You say you object. Do you
mean you invoke those constitutional privileges as a basis for refusing
to produce them ?
Mr. Gunter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Gunter. You are ordering me to produce those records?
The Chairman. We ordered you to produce them in the repre-
sentative— have you asked him ?
Mr. Appell. T was getting ready to. Before making the demand,
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the witness whether he received
a copy of the chairman's opening statement, which contained the pur-
poses for which these hearings were held, and whether he is acquainted
with the provisions of that statement.
Mr, Phyfer. Mr. Appell, we will stipulate that he has.
Mr. Appell. Thank you. I now ask, Mr. Chairman, the witness
be directed to produce the documents called for.
The Chairman. Did you call for them ?
Mr. Appell. I did, and he invoked the constitutional privilege.
The Chairman. Mr. Gunter, I take it you understand, as does
your attorney, that you were ordered by the subpena to produce those
documents in your representative capacity stated in the subpena.
Mr. Gunter. [Handing documents.] By introduction of these.
documents I do not waive any rights or legal defense I might have
under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of
the United States.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 27
2744 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. You mean, you are producing the documents.
(Witness otfers documents.)
The Chairman. Wait a minute. Let's get it straight. I thought
you had refused to produce the documents. Let's just understand
each other, Counsel, You are producing them with the reserva-
tion
Mr. Phyfer. Over our objection. We do not waive any rights.
The Chairman. I take it, Mr. Gunter, and your attorney, you under-
stand you are ordered by this subpena to produce certain documents in
your representative capacity stated in the subpena. Is that correct?
Mr. Gunter. Yes.
The Chairman. That being the case, I order and direct you to
produce the documents.
Mr. Gunter. I liave just given them, am turning them over, over
our objection.
The Chairman. In other words, Counselor, as I understand the
position of your client, in response to the subpena he is now producing
tlie documents he luis just handed over to Mr. Appell, but he produces
them today under reservation of all his rights under amendments —
what?
Mr. Phyfer. First, fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, do the two ledger books which you sub-
mitted to the committee in accordance with the provisions of the
subpena constitute records of accounts receivable and payable and
describe the customers for the accounts receivable and payable accord-
ing to your business records?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer .that question.
The Chair]nuvn. Mr. Gunter, are the documents that you have just
handed over to Mr. Appell all of the documents called for by the
subpena ?
Mr. Phyfer. May I have a short conference with you?
The Chairman. Yes.
(Conference off the record.)
The Chairman. The pending question is a simple one and it is
this, as directed by me: Are the documents that you have produced
all of the documents called for by the subpena? It is a "yes" or "no"
question I am asking.
Mr. Gunter. Sir, I have access to additional records as implied by
the subpena, but due to the bulk and weight of individual records
and the expense of bringing these records, I was physically and finan-
cially unaole to bring such records with me today. I respectfully
will make said records available to the committee. This committee
may have access to these records.
The Chairman. Do you understand that the documents sought by
the subpena are only documents dealing with Klan operations?
Mr. Gunter. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2745
The Chairman. I am advising you and telling you that the only
documents this committee would be interested in would be those deal-
ing with Klan activities. And you force me to ask this question:
Have your dealings with Klan activities been such that the records
you liave would be too voluminous, too expensive, for you to bring
here ?
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, for the same reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Ph YFER. May I ask something, sir, off the record ?
The Chairman. Off' the record.
( Discussion off the record. )
The Chairman. Mr. Gunter, do I understand your business is print-
ing, et cetera ?
Mr. GuNTER. For reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline
to answer this question.
The Chairman. I understand that you are the owner of the Capital
Blueprint & Supply Co. I take it, therefore, and I assume, that the
subpena orders you to produce documents for Klan organizations
dealing witli Klan activities, and if your business is broader than that,
we are not interested in those other documents.
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Assuming again, I am presuming, I am generally
following what has transpired thus far that is relative to the import
of the subpena : Then I ask you whether your printing material, docu-
ments, pamphlets, flyers, or whatever, are so extensive that it would be
too bulky for you to bring to Washington ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Phyfer. Would you repeat the question, please?
The Chairman. Read it.
( The question was read by the reporter. )
Mr. Gunter. Sir, I have access to additional records as required by
the subpena, but due to the bulk and weight of said records and ex-
pense of bringing these records, I was physically, financially, unable
to bring such records with me today. I respectfully will make said
records available to this committee. This committee may have access
to said records at any time.
The Chairman. If I am correct, that this type of business dealt
with Klan organizations, the printing of material, flyers, pamphlets,
and so on, then I ask you did you keep a copy of each set, and is it
an accumulation, or the whole of these, which is so bulky that you
cannot produce?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
(At this point Mr. Clawson left the hearing room.)
The Chairman. Could you produce at least the invoices that you
sent in each instance to fulfill whatever order was given to you to
print ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
2746 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, from the two ledger books that you sup-
plied this morning, have any pages been removed since the date that
you received your subpena ?
( Witness confers with counsel . )
Mr. Phyter. Would you repeat that question ?
Mr. Appell. Yes.
The two ledger books that you produced this morning or this after-
noon— have any pages been removed from either of these books since
the date that you received your subpena?
(Witness confei's with counsel.)
Mr. Gunter. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, many entries in your sales journal are
identified only by invoice numbers. Are these invoices maintained
by you as a part of the records which you could not bring because
of their bulk?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Are these invoices among the documents w^iich you
have in your possession which you offered to make available to the
committee or to a representative of the committee to review in your
offices in Jackson, Mississippi?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, in May 1965, did you receive a loan for
the operation of your business from the Small Business Administra-
tion of the United States Government?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Could you tell us or estimate in dollars and cents
the amount of business in the shape of printing that you did with
the various Klan organizations?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, I hand you a document described "My
Fellow American." This is on its face published in the interest —
it says, "Here are Twenty Reasons WHY you should, if qualified, join,
aid and support the White Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN of
Mississippi."
Did you print this document?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 1" appears on
P.274Y.)
Mr. Appell. I hand you a copy of a printed document headed "The
KLAN Ledger, Special Gulf Coast Edition, Pre-4th of July," and an-
other, a printed "KLAN Ledger," dated July 4, 1964, both documents
state on their masthead that they are official publications of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan'of Mississippi. Did you print those
documents?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Documents marked "Thomas Gunter Exhibits Nos. 2 and 3," re-
spectively. See pp. 2754-2759. )
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2747
- ' Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 1
My Fellow American
Here ore Twenty Reasons WHY you should, if qualified, join, oid and support the White Knights of the
KU KLUX KLAN of Mississippi:
1. Because if is a Christian, frafemal and ban«vot«nt organisation.
2. Because it is a democratic organisation, governed by its members.
3. Becauae it is a dedicated and just organisatioit.
4. Because it it a working organisation which not only talks but
ACTS.
5. Because it it a very secret organisation and no one will know
that you are a member.
6. Because it is a legal organisation and no one can be prosecuted
for being a member.
7. Because it is a politically inde|>endent organisation, and is not
pledged to any political party.
8. Because it is a Pro-American organisation that opposes any
thing, person or organisation that is Un-American.
9. Because it is an organisation that is sworn to uphold the lawful
Constitution of the United States of America.
10. Because it is composed of native-born, white, gentile and
protestant American citisent who arc sound of mind and of
good mnrai character.
IT. Because the goals of the KKK »re the total segregation of the
races and the total destruction of communism in all its forms.
12. Because the KKK has twice saved thii nation from destruction
as history clearly records.
13. Because there comes a time in the life of every man when he
has to choose between the right or wrong side of life.
14. Because there are today many alien forces entering the United
States of America bent upon its destruction.
15. Because it informs its members, and an informed citizen is a
good citisen.
1 6. Because a Christian-like brotherhood among men must be
revived in America.
17- Because one of the goals of the KKK is States' Rights and
complete State Sovereignty.
18. Because neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals will save our
nation, for patriots always save a nation.
19. Because it is clear now that if communism is to be defeated
in America it will be done in the South and primarily in
Mississippi.
20. Because the KKK needs you today to help fight America's
battles.
The White Knights ot the KU KLUX KLAN of Mississippi is. of
necessity, a SECRET organizatioon, The administration of our Na-
tional Government is now under the actual control of atheists who
are Bolsheviks by nature. As dedicated agents of Satan, they are
absolutely determined to destroy Christian Civi'iration and all Chris-
tians. We have nothing dishonorable to hide, but we must remain
SECRET, for the protection of our lives and families.
All of our members must meet a strict set of requirements
We are looking for. and enlisting ONLY: Sober. Intelligent.
Courageous, Christian. American, White men who are consciously
and fully aware of the basic FACT that their physical life and
earthly destiny are absolutely bound up with the Survival of this
Nation, under Cod. Our governmental principles are precisely those
of the ORIGINAL U, S. Constitution. Our members are Christians
who are anxious to preserve not only their souls for all Eternity, but
who are MILITANTLY DETERMINED. God willing, to save the.r
lives, and the Life of this Nation, in order that their descendants
shall enjoy the same, full. Cod-given blessings of True Liberty that
we have been permitted to en(0y up to now.
We do not accept Jews, because they reiect Christ, and, through
the machinations of their International Banking Cartel, are at the
root-center of what we call "communism" today.
We do not accept Papists, because they bow to a Roman dic-
tator, in direct violation of the First Commandment, and the True
American Spirit of Responsible, Individual Liberty.
We do not accept Turks. Mongols. ' arters. Orientals, Negroes,
nor any other person whose native backj^round of culture is foreign
to the Anglo-Saxon system of Government by responsible, FREE.
Individual Ctizens.
Our governmental system is a Constitutional Republic, primarily
designed to protect the Responsible, Individual Citizens from all
tyranny; which selects its representatives by both the direct and the
indirect Democrjiic process; and recognizee the necessity for the
existence of an effective Loyal Opposition to any current Administra-
tion This type of Covernmentai System is unique, and found only
where Anglo-Saxons control the Governmental Machinery of a
Nation With rare exceptioris, people of other baci- grounds simply
cannot comprphend the Anglo-Saxon principle of "Equal Justice under
Law" and the fact that EVERY "Right" must be balanced by an
accompanying Responsibility The inherent t>alance and reason of
this system has little or no attraction for these persons of alien culture.
They generally prefer to shirk Individual RespOns-bility, grab up as
much material wealth as they can, and accept Centralized Authority
and Dictatorship, in the hope that they can buy special favors and
privileges for themselves
The conflict between these two attitudes has now become a
Life and Death matter in America, The people of the non-American
cultures CAN and COULD live under the Anglo-Saxon System, but
they prefer to see it destroyed. The true American Anglo-Saxons, on
the other hand. CAN NOT live under a Dictatorship'
The issue is clearly one of personal, physical SELF-DEFENSE or
DEATH for the American Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo Sasons have no
choice but to defend our Constitutional Republic by every means
at their command, because it is. LITERALLY, their Life. They will
die without it.
If you tn a Christian. American Anglo-Saxon who can under-
stand the simple Truth of this Philosophy, you belong in th« Whit*
Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN of Mississippi. We need your
help right away. Get your Bible out and PRAYf You will hear
from ut.
Mr. Appell. I hand you — I do not know what, to call it — a billboard
type of thinof. It says, "I WANT YOU in the Wliite Knights of Mis-
sissippi Ku Klux Klan." Did your shop print that?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 4," follows:)
2748 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 4
I WANT YOU
KU KLUX KUN
The Chairmax. Is not that document a simulation or an imitation
of the very familiar — of one of our most famous posters, showing a
Klansman instead of Uncle Sam, "I want you" — Armed Forces poster,
in effect?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The (^iiAiRMAX. Isn't that really a deliberate imitation of that
famous poster — and just a few days ago there was a very enlightening
review of the various posters used during several wars we were engaged
• ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2749
in — where this one, at least the one this poster seems to deliberately
imitate, shows instead of Uncle Sam a Klansman and the familiar hat
next to it, apparently simulating the flag of the United States in the
form of a hat ?
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do these journals and books you have presented,
and we will examine them, indicate on their face and to your knowl-
edge that you were printing material for the Klans under front —
phoney front — cover names ?
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, I am having a very difficult time under-
standing, and the reason I based the earlier question to you, if you
want to go through this ledger book here and look at the various items,
you have to keep turning it around because they read down this way,
and they get into another section and they read another w^ay. Has
this book been reassembled since the date you got your subpena ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask this question?
Mr. Gunter, is there anything in there, in any of these ledgers, deal-
ing with any printing, billing, accounts receivable, accounts payable,
for Klan Avork? If so, wdiere would this committee find it? What
page ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. Would you be willing to sit with a member of our
staff, an investigator, and try to point out what items in the journal
and the ledger have to do with billings for Klan activities, and if you
are engaged in other business, billings for other matters ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. Then, Mr. Gunter, I tell you that you have pro-
duced these books under certain reservations, whatever they mean,
w^hatever significance they have, and I tell you that we have made note
of tlie offer to have your records examined, and w^ithout prejudice to
the legal rights of this committee under that subpena, we will consider
what action we will take.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, are you now, or have you ever been, a
member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Do you employ a Karl Summers and a Joe Allen and
do you know them to be members of the Klan ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Have you done printing work for the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I hand you four checks, payable from the account of
the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund, Inc., made
2750 ACTrv'iTiES of ku klux klan in the U.S.
payable to Thomas E. and/or Tommy Giinter, and I ask you if you
are the Thomas E. Gunter to whom these checks were made payable
and if it is your endorsement on the reverse thereof.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, 1 respectfully
decline to answer this question.
(Documents marked "Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 5" and retained
in committee files. )
The Chairman. Mr. Gunter, do you understand that the committee
is interested in Klan activities; that we are not the least concerned
w4th, or interested in, whatever endeavor you engaged in outside of
business activities with the Klan, but with whatever connection you
had with the Klan ? Do you understand that ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for that reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I am telling you that, because I do not or would not
take it with grace on your part if outside this hearing room you would
say that we are trying to interfere w^ith the freedom of the press and
private business or anything else. I am telling you this is our interest.
Do you intend to make any such statement?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness a question?
Could you tell us where those checks that you received are listed in
the ledger or accounts receivable ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Are they listed in the ledger?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, the checks made payable to you were co-
signed by H[arvey] H. Heredeen and Elmore D. Greaves.
Do you know these gentlemen ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer tliis question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Gunter, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny tlie fact, that you liave held membership in the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Air. Appell. I ask you if you are today a member of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Gunter. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer tliat question.
The Chairman. Mr. Gunter, you were served with this subpena to
l)roduce these documents on when ?
Mr. Appell. November 8.
The Chairman. November 8, 1965, which is over 2 months ago.
I think it was only this moniing — and if counsel will disagree I
hope he would say so — that Mr. Appell or members of the stafi' were
told about the so-called bulkiness of the records, and as far as this
committee is concerned, it was only upon yoiu- taking the stand that
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2751
tlie members knew about your position that you have outlined, that the
records are too bulky and it would be too expensive for you to bring
them to '\Yashino;ton, I want to advise you that in our opinion you
were under obligation a long time ago to advise the committee that
would be your position. At the last minute, here is the day of com-
pliance, here is the day on which you were required and expected, to
comply with the command of the subpena, and you give that explana-
tion. I think, if for no other reason, fairness required you to commu-
nicate with the committee before this.
So in order for the committee eventually to determine the question
of possible citation for contempt, I want to ask you two or three ques-
tions. How bulky are those documents in weight since you talk about
weight ? For example, how many pounds ?
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. Wliat would have been, or what would today be the
cost to send them to Washington by express ?
Mr. GuNTER. What was that question again, Mr. Willis ?
The Chairman. What would be the cost to ship these documents to
Washington by express ?
Mr. Phyfer, Mr. Willis, may I say something I think will clarify
this. My client, Mr. Gunter, did not employ me until Monday after-
noon at 4 o'clock.
The Chairman. What. I have to say never involves an attorney who
reipresents a witness, as you are now representing one, to give him the
best advice.
Mr. Phyfer. He did not have the advice to produce such records
until Monday of this w^eek. I left for Washington •
The Chairman. Say that again.
Mr. Phyfer. He did not have the advice that he has now, is one
reason that he did not produce these records.
The Chairman. You mean advice from legal counsel ?
Mr. Phyfer. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. But he had been subpenaed since November. Yet
he was only given the advice, did you say, not to comply since you w^ere
employed ?
Mr. Phyfer. No, sir, I did not say that.
The Chairman. I do not want to put words in your mouth. Let me
understand you.
Mr. Phyfer. ^Yliat I tried to say, Mr. Willis, was that he only em-
ployed counsel on Monday afternoon. He just employed counsel on
Monday afternoon.
The Chairman. Then I ask you to answer that question. What
would be the cost to ship those docmnents to Washington ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gunter. Mr. Willis, I do not have any idea, but I know it would
be a tremendous amount to bring them in.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, would that be $100? AVliat is a tre-
mendous amount ? Let us get down to dollars and cents.
Mr. Gunter. It could be a hundred or more than a hundred.
Mr. Senner. How^ much more than a hundred; two hundred?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
2752 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. GuNTER. I do not know exactly, but it was more than I had the
money to bring it here.
Mr. Senner. You told this committee under oatli that because of
the bulkiness and the cost that you could not ait'ord the financial burden
to bring the records here. How did you determine that financial bur-
den?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. GuNTER. I would say it is approximately around 3,000 pounds.
That is just a rough guess.
Mr. Senner. Is that the Klan records as requested by the subpena ?
Mr. GuNTER, Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Then I take it from your response that it would be all
your records, from the previous question before you took or iuA'oked
the fifth amendment.
Mr. GuNTER. Sir, for the previous reason stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairman. In order to determine, we might consider sending
someone to Mississippi or having the records subpenaed sent here to
determine ultimately the question of the compliance or noncompliance
with the subpena. But let me ask you this : Are your records kept in
such a way that our inspectors could separate the wheat from the
chaff, look at those pertaining to Klan activities, because you are in
the Klan from our information, and those pertaining to other aspects
of the business if you have any other aspect ?
Mr. GuxTER. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did he invoke the privilege ?
Mr. Phyfer. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I call your attention, sir, to section 1505 of title
18 of the United States Code, generally entitled "Obstruction of
proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees,'' and call
your attention to the following pertinent passage :
Mr. Senner. [Reading:] "Iviioever corruptly"
The Chairman. I am asking Mr. Senner to read because he perused
that document.
Mr. Senner. [Continues reading:]
Whoever corruptly, * * * obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, ob-
struct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which such
proceeding is being had before such department or agency of the United States,
or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which such inquiry
or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or
any joint committee of the Congress —
Shall be fined not more than $5,000 or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
Counsel and Mr. Witness, calling your attention to the United States
Supreme Court, case of Arthur McPhaid. Petitioner, versus United
States of AmeHca on page 7 thereof —
"if [i)etitioner] had legitimate reasons for failing to produce the records of the
association, a decent respect for the House of Representatives, by whose authority
the subiKienas issued, would have required that [hel state fhis] reasons for non-
compliance upon the return of the writ." * * * "To deny the Committee the
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2753
opix)rtunity to consider tie objection or remedy it is in itself a contempt of its
authority and an obstruction of its processes. * * *"'
This case involved this very committee. You made no such request
of this committee for financial aid to ship those records up here, have
you, Mr. Witness?
Mr. GuNTER. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. Or have you notified this committee in any respect
that you were financially miable to bring the records up here either
because of its bulkiness or the cost to you ?
(AVitness confers with counsel.)
Mr. GuNTER. I did not know that I was supposed to.
Mr. Senner. You do now, don't you ?
Mr. GuNTER. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. You say it is 3,000 pounds and approximately $200?
Mr. Gunter. I would say that, approximately.
Mr. Senner. And you are not financially able to bear that cost?
Mr. Gunter. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. Now going back to this original question on which
you do know the law, you know what you have to do in the petition,
when we talk about 3,000 pounds and $200, are we talking about rec-
ords requested by this committee by virtue of the language in the sub-
pena concerning the Klan ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
The Chairman. That statement, of course, does not require any
response.
My statement and that of Mr. Senner was an admonition of the
problem presented and the problem this committee is confronted with,
and is not to be construed as a decision thus far, as a committee de-
termination. But I will repeat that this committee does not consider
that which transpired here today to be a compliance, and in the light
of the offer made by you, Mr. Gunter, I repeat that the committee
reserves its position as to future course of conduct pursuant to that
subpena. Furtliermore, you are now continued under subpena. You
are not discharged. I order you to return before this committee on
February 1, 1966, unless in the meantime you are notified to the
contrary.^ And that day, of course, have with you the records com-
manded by the subpena.
Mr. Gunter. Mr. Willis, I was not doing this in any disrespect to
the committee or anything else. It was strictly in ignorance. I did
not know that I could ask for the money and bring them here.
The Chairman. I do not know that if you had asked for money it
would have been supplied, but at least we would have had an opportu-
nity to have a dialogue on the subject to try to resolve what, at the
last minute, is thrown in our lap. The witness is continued under
subpena until the time indicated.
Is that it?
Mr. Appell. For this witness, yes, Mr. Chairman.
1 Mr. Gunter reappeared before this committee on February 1 in an executive session.
This testimony has not been released.
2754
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Thomas Gimter exhibits Nos. 2 and 3, introduced on p. 2746,
follow:)
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 2
iM^ OHici*! PubKcattm of the WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE KU KlOx JOAM «« MttcinlppI
'* " ' Oa^lCAltD H) [IF. TRFSFRVATION OF CHRISTIAN CIVILIZATION
SPECIAL GULF COAST EDITION
i PRE-4TH OF JULY
The black sovages hcjve threat-
ened that they intend to turn the
Gulf Coost into the Congo Coast
on the 4th of July. All residents
and merchants ore licf'by cnutinn-
ed to be extremely coreful and alert
to any threat of gangsterism or
hoodlumism in the Coast areo 1 1
thot 'Jute. We or not qoing to
have a duplicatic i f th street
fights and chaos the;'- have b'^er go-
ing on in St. Auqli '^ ond Jack-
sonville We are herehy advising
oil white persons who ore not mem-
bers of the duly-authorized police
forces of these State ond local juris-
dictions, or their lawfully deputized
deputies or auxiliaries, to stand
back and to avoid conflict or con-
toct with these communist-led block
savages, in any way, shape, or form.
National police agents, under the
direction of Bobby Kennedy, will be
present with cameras to take pic-
tures of the violence which they
hope to be able to provoke. These
people want Mississippi placed un-
der martial low, and they are count-
ing on the unorganized white people
on this coast to engage in open
street fights with the blacks, which
will provide them with on excuse.
Do not fight with the blocks. Avoid
trouble Run and get the police if
the blacks show up. Help the police
by keeping calm and staying out of
their way while they ore working on
the arrests. Be very careful ot all
times. Get women and children out
of trouble areas immediately. Talk
trouble DOWN, not up. PROVE
your white supremacy by shoyving
thot you hove Brains as well as
courage. Remember that the blacks
cannot accomplish anything unless
they con cause a disturbance.
Remember that they WANT you to
fight with them. Keep cool-headed
and beat them The White Kniqhts
of the KU KLtj:^ KLAM mol-.-', a
Solemn promise to the white peopio
of fbr Mississippi Gulf Coast that
if they will ignore and frustrate the
blocks on the 4th of July and let
the duly authorized officers of the
low handle them, that we Knights
will deal the leaders of these mobs
a true brand of justice for the hu-
miliation ond sorrow you are suf-
fering today We do not want open
trf)uble and street warfare (or l)eoch
warlaieJ on the Coast on July 4th
We strongly advise oH white peo-
ple to stay out of trouble with the
blacks. Needless to soy, we will have
our agents all over the coast on that
date observing both white and
black trouble makers for future
reference. We repeat, we want NO
open fighting with the blacks on
this coubt Heed the advice of the
Klon. Do n(;t be misled by im-
posters.
When the block mobs come to
your town, do as we hereby advise:
DO NOT go out into the streets or
to town and try to fight them. No
matter how well armed you are, you
should stay at home and look ofter
the safety and welfare of your own
fomily.
DO NOT go out looking for trou-
ble. Protect yourself and your fam-
ily. Arm yourself well and stay at
home. Do not fire unless your
home, your person or your family
is attacked. Do not submit to hav-
ing your guns confiscated. Defend
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2755
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
yourself as a Christian, "Americon
patriot should, but do not go out
hunting trouble with the Commun-
i-^t-led block savages Do not get
panicky and do not worry. If our
politicians haven't the c(j*uruge and
moral fiber to stand up and fight
integration and Communism with
the law OS their shield, the Chris-
tian citizens of this stat'f will form
disciplined ranks to prov de protec-
tion for our civilization.
Please remember: Support your
loco! police. We must stond behind
our locol officers of law and agoinst
the scummy disciples of dictator-
ship such as Bobby Kennedy, Nick
Kotz^iiback, John L)ikii, McShinc,
Burke Marshal, Fidel Castro, Si.
John Borelt, Phillip Savage and N
Kruschev.
•■'Tonight, oftWyoLTread this, get
o copy of the Constitution of the
United States and your Holy Bible.
Read and study both of them son
ously and well, and keep on doing
it every day, eve y night from now
on Then pour out your heart in
prayer to Almighty God for relief
and help against the forces of Sa-
tan. This is the only way in which
we can win, and we will win if we
align ourselves w th Almighty God!
The Whife Knights of the Ku
Kiux Klon of the- Sovereign Realm
of Mississippi is 4i Christian organ-
ization. We do not believe in, nor
do we commit acts of unlawful vio-
lence. We employ physical force
only in defence of our Christian
civilizotio'i; and even then, without
malice or vengeot»ce.
In a debate with Judge Dpugiof tU C^arUskln. Illinois, September 18, 1658, Mr. Abraham
Lincoln exinesseJ his views and his stand on the racial question, in f>arf as foUowsi
"I am not nor ever have been ir. favour of bringing about
in any w.iy the social and political equality of the white
an! black races! I am not nor ever \\.\yp been in ravo\ir
(if mal^in^ voters or jurors of negrour;. nor of rjualify;np.
thi-m to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.
I will say in addition to this that there is a physical
difference between the white and black races which I be-
lieve will forever forbid the two races living together
on terms of social and political equality; and inasmuch
as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there
must be the position of the inferior and superior, and I
am. as much as any other man. in favour of having the su-
perior position assigned to the white race."
()r<lii titcd to trKimdiMi <i>iil extend the dignity, heritage and rights of the
White Race <ij Americii.
Thrums l-dfK.-'K. Brnnn'-n I .: . llr... II... A.l..n,., la,,,.-, Mci.,io<-, f vfn H. .. I . r T WaO,.,,Bi,„i Uvi.rtd ltirtgj....n
/X).\"'I Dl'Sf KOV — /\i*s It (iliiiij; — Enclose in vour letters — iiixe to your Ixtstor, your poli-
Iti itm, youi st h<n>I teiu'/ii-i . .Miiinltiin the difimty, htiiin^e inul ii>i/i(s <>/ ilye White iitne.
2756 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 3
An Official Publicaton of the WHITE KNIGHTS of THE KU KLUX KLAN of Mississippi
DEDICATED TO THE PRESERVATION OF CHRISTIAN CIVILIZATION
J ULY 4, 1964
We are now in the midst of the "long, hot summer" of agitation
which was promised to the Innocent People of Mississippi by the
savage blacks and their conmunist masters. On thip Famous Date,
the Anniversary of the founding of the American Republic, under
the auspices and blessings of Almighty God, we ask that each
Mississippian, each American, get down upon his knees and offer
up thanks to our Creator, Savior and Inspiration for his manifold
grace and blessings.
THIS THEN IS OUR PRAYER
OUR FATHER, GOD OF LIFE AND LIBERTY, WE HUMBLY THANK THEE FOR THE
STRENGTH, COURAGE AND INTELLIGENCE WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN TO OUR
PERSECUTED PEOPLE. WE THANK THEE THAT OUR SATANIC ENEMIES, THE
DOMESTIC COMMUNISTS WHO OCCUPY THE SEATS OF POWER IN OUR GOVERN-
MENT HAVE FAILED TO PROVOKE THE VIOLENCE IN OUR GREAT STATE WHICH
WOULD BRING DOWN MARTIAL LAW AND COMPLETE DICTATORSHIP. THANK YOU
0 LORD, FOR OPENING THE EYES OF ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE OF OUR GREAT
NATION TO THE EVIL WHICH HAS BEEN . ORCED UPON US. HELP JS 10 OVER-
COME OUR ENEMIES, KEEP OUR FEET nL".>AYS UPON THE PATH OF RIGHTEOUS-
NESS, AND PURGE OUR HEARTS FROM MALICE AND VENGEANCE, GIVE OUR ARMS
THE STRENGTH, OUR HEARTS THE COURAGE, A^^'D OUR MINDS THE WILL TO DE-
STROY THESE AGENTS OF SATAN. WE TriAt^K THEE FOR THE RAINS WHICH HAS
NOURISHED OUR CROPS AND THY SPIRIT WHICH MAKES THEM GROW. BLESS
AND KEEP ALL OF US, THY CHILDREN, AND MAKE US WORTHY OF THY INFINITE
BLESSINGS. WE ASK, IN THE NAME OF THY SON, CHRIST JESUS, WHO TAUGHT
US HOW TO LIVE AND DIE FOR THY KIN.1D0M HERE ON EARTH. AMEN.
The recent events in Neshoba County and Statewide call for a mes-
sage to the general public and the citizens of the great State of
Mississippi. The arch-traitor and long-time betrayer of patriots
the world over, Dulles, has used his lying tongue to try and con-
vince the American Public that this organization was involved in
the so-called "disappearance".
We were NOT involved, and there w>'« NO DISAPPEARANCE. Anyone who
is so simple that he cannot recognize a communist hoax which is as
plain as the one they pulled on Kennedy in Dallas (and which Earl
Warren is working so hard to cover-up) , had better do a little
reading in J. Edgar Hoover's primer on communism; "MASTERS OF DE-
CEIT".
We refuse to be concerned or upset about this fraud. What we are
concerned about is the welfare of the citizens of the State of
Mississippi. The trip by Dulles was calculated to bring us nothing
but harm. Dulles and his communist friends insist that there is a
"racial problem" in Mississippi which they want to "solve". There
is no racial problem here in thit state. Our system of strict se-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2757
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
gregation permits the two races to live in close proximity and
harmony with each other and eliminates any racial problem. What
the communists are so anxious to do is to create a RACIAL ISSUE,
and expand the issue into a bloody revolution. This is why Dulles
came into this State. While here he planted the seed into the str-
eam of our lite which they hope will blossom into violence. The
seed is the suave insistence that "BI-RACIAL GROUPS and COMNITTES"
be tormed to "work out" a "solution" to the racial problem". All
citizens must immediately place tliemselves on the alert against the
tormation or recognition ot any such group in their community. Bi-
racial groups are the greatest danger we face in this State today.
These groups have absolutely no legal standing whatsoever. Exper-
ience has shown that whenever thay are lormed, they immediately set
to work and negotiate the lawtul rights of the people avvay in phony
agreements which they have absolutely no right to enter into. Bi-
racial groups have brought violence and bloodshed to every area in
which they have been recognized. The surest way to have violence
in Mississippi is for anyone to give any weight or recognize the
authority of a bi-racial group. Any public official who recognizes
or negotiates with any such bi-racial group is exceeding his autho-
rity and working against the people who elected him.
We are going to serve notice that we are not going to recognize the
authority of any bi-racial group, NOR THE AUTHORITY OF ANY PUBLIC
OFFICIAL WHO ENTERS INTO ANY AGREEMENT WITH ANY SUCH SOVIET ORGANI-
ZATION. We Knights are working day and night to perserve Law and
Order here in Mississippi, in the only way that it can be preserved:
by strict segretation of the races, and the control of the social
structure in the hands of the Christian, Anglo-Saxon White men, the
only race on earth that can build and maintain just and stable govern-
ments. We are deadly serious about this business. We have taken no
action as yet against the enemies of our State, our Nation and our
Civilization, but we are not going to sit back and permit our rights
and the rights of our posterity to be negotiated away by a group com-
posed of athestic priests, brainwashed black savages, and mongrel-
ized money-worshippers, meeting with some stupid or cowardly politi-
cian. Take heed, atheists and mongrels, we will not travel youmpath
to a Leninist Hell, but we will buy YOU a ticket to the Eternal if
you insist. Take your choice. SEGRETATION. TRANQUILITY AND JUSTICE.
or, BI-RACISM. CHAOS AND DEATH.
Race consciousness is not racial hatred, nor is it intolerance. It
is a deeply ingrained awareness of a birthright held in trust for
posterity. No man is immoral who is proud of his race, his birth-
right, and who promotes it as a positive principle. If this has
not been proven to you, then how did Israel become a great nation;
why did Edom fade into oblivion? No truly intelligent person can
treat with indifference the principle of race, for it is the key to
history.
The Holy Writ is very clear on the master-servant relationship. Each
party has his duty and responsibility, one toward the other. All true
Christians are Brothers in Christ, but their social equality is deter-
mined by individual choice and voluntary association. The Scripture
simply does not teach the social equality of men here on earth. Social
equality simply cannot be just. One must lose, and one must gain if
two men are to be socially equal. This is not to be confused with the
"created equal" clause of the Declaration of Independence. That is
Equality under Law which prevents the authority of government from
2758 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
being applied with more favor to some men than to others. Equality
under Law is a benefit to all men. It helps all and hurts none, since
the tyrant who enforces the unjust Law is actually just as much hurt
by the injustice (although he may feel it less) as the serf upon whom
the injustice may fall. Equality under the Law is Justice. Social
Equality among men is bound to contradict Equality under Law and' is
therefore inherently unjust. Any attempt to achieve Social Equality
by using the mechanism of the Law is a negation of the basic purpose
of American Law. Those who believe that the majority should always
rule evidentaly approve of the logic which led to the Crucifixion.
Jesus stood alone before the mob. A street riot was threatened un-
less he was to be given up for death. Pilate wanted "peace" (How
often have we heard this). The mob had their way. The majority
ruled. Christ, the Sinless One, went to the Cross. Do not be fool-
ed by these politicians. PURE DEMOCRACY EQUALS DICTATORSHIP. Who
ever hears of a mob without a leader? Just because that leader may
conmlt his crimes in the "name" of the majority, is the injustice
any less than if he were a KING conmitting those same crimes in the
name of Divine Right. America is not a Democracy where the mob rules.
America is a Constitutional Republic where the LAW rules; and where
properly, God fearing, Bible reading men, administer the governmental
offices, after being duly elected to office by the Democratic PROCESS.
HISTORY SHOWS THAT THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO DEAL WITH DICTATORS.
We must take the Constitution of the United States of America as
our guide in dealing with all gangsters. That is why we have it.
That is why James Madison, Ben Franklin, George Washington, Pat-
rick Henry and the others labored so hard to build it. THEIR CON-
STITUTION WAS AN UNQUALIFIED SUCCESS. Its purpose was and is to ^
make it impossible to set up a Dictatorship in America WITHOUT
VIOLATING ITS CLEAR SPIRIT. PRINCIPLES AND LANGUAGE. THE CONSTITU-
TION BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE. It is not the property of any Court,
Congress or Executive Officer. That is why it was written in
CLEAR, SIMPLE LANGUAGE and given wide distribution, so that the
honest individual citizen would have a yardstick to measure the
thugs and scoundrels whom the founders of our constitution knew
were BOUND TO GET INTO PUBLIC OFFICE. The Constitution is the
Basic Power of all governmental authority in America. It is the
Supreme Law of the Land. It establishes the principle that this
is a government of Laws and not of men. The Supreme Court gets all
of its power from the Constitution. The Congress gets all of its
power from the Constitution. The President gets all of his power
from the Constitution. If those who sit on the bench of the Supreme
Court depart from the Constitution then they are NOT the Supreme
COURT. If the cravens who sit in the seats of Congress depart from
the Constitution - then they are NOT the Congress. If the man who
sits in the White House departs from the Constitution - then he is
NOT the President. THIS principle is the Spirit of American Liberty.
It is what government by LAW and not by men MEANS. Any officer of
governmental standing who departs from the CLEAR Principles of the
Constitution automatically thereby cuts off the source of his law-
ful power and becomes nothing more than an armed thug, regardless
of how many marshal Is or troops he tiiay command. If in any such un-
constitutional situation, any marshalls or troops engage in any vio-
lence against a citizen of this State while attempting to force him
to comply with some unlawful order, he will be committing a FELONY
against the Peace and Dignity of Mississippi and America.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2759
Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
The WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE KU KLUX KLAN are bound by oath to perserve,
protect and defend the Constitution ot the United States of America
by reason and by force, if necessary. The Constitution is our guide,
and ALMIGHTY GOD is our strengty. George Washington once said: "The
people know that men cannot govern without the Bible". There never
has been an atheist, no matter how intelligent, who could design a
practical system of ethics which could displace the fundamental,
Spiritual principles of Christian Morality as a guide for society.
The failure of these atheists is everywhere around us, exposed to
view in the courts and in public office. It is not America that has
failed. It is not Christ that has failed. It is not the Constitu-
tion nor the Bible that has failed. It is the atheists who think
that they can govern without the BIBLE and the LAW who have failed.
In regard to the actual position and intentions of the WHITE KNIGHTS
OF THE KU KLUX KLAN OF MISSISSIPPI with regard to the "racial problem"
and the so-called communist conspiracy we hereby issue the following
statement :
"Let none forget today or ever that we are the Physical and Spiritual
Heirs of the world's first and last True Revolution. Let the word
pass to friend and foe alike, telling that the Torch of Liberty and
Justice has been passed to a new generation of Americans, nourished
In adversity - tempered in hellish and fruitless war - humbled by
Christianity - aroused in militant determination to close with and
destroy the enemies of America. Proud are we of our Ancient and
Noble heritage, unwilling to witness or permit the slow or rapid un-
doing and destruction of our Inalienable rights. Secure in the know-
ledge that Almighty God intended for his children to live free of the
malicious will ot other men, we state that these rights are not negio-
table, that since they are given by God, they cannot be taken from
us by any man, or mob of men, calling tliemselves a government, a
party, a proletariat or body politic. With a firm and humble reli-
ance on the protection of Almighty God, we candidly repeat the warning
of our forefathers: 'Don't tread on me'."
THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE KU KLUX KLAN OF
MISSISSIPPI.
In a tii-haic ui(/i Jiul-^e l)ou^hi<i <it Chui /cslim, (//inois, Sc/itciiifier 18, 1858, Mr. Abraham
I.iiu <i/n exinvsscil his i reus and his stand iin the racial question, in part as /ollous:
"I am not nor ever have been in favour of bringing about
in any way the social and political equality of the white
and black races! I am not nor ever have been in favour
f'f maKing voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying
them to hold office, nor to inte rmarry wi th white people."
I will say in addition to this that there is a physical
difference between the white and black races which I be-
lieve will forever forbid the two races living together
on terms of social and political equality: and inasmuch
as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there
must be the position of the inferior and superior, and I
as much as any other man. in favour of having the su-
ior position assigned to the white race."
am
per
Dedicated to maintain and extend the dignity, heritage and rights of (he
White Race nj America.
Tn. i,..i,],llrr Bcr|.n,.n Fr.nthr,. John Adj.M,. Jami ! Mo„tot. tvf I, B...,kr, T Wjit.mmon fjvortd Sfgrtgai.on.
DO.N'T DtS ri<()V — Puss it ulotiK — Enclose in your letters — Cue to your /lastor, your poli-
tician, your school ic-iicher. Nfaintain the dignity, heritage and rights of the White Race.
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 ^28
2760 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chair3ian. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harvey H. Heredeen.
The Chairman. As chairman of the full Committee on Un-Amer-
ican Activities, I hereby, for the purposes of the balance of the hearino;
this afternoon, constitute a special subcommittee of three composed
of myself, as chairman, Mr. Weltner, and Mr. Senner.
Let it be known that all three are now present and that, as we go
along, two will constitute a quorum.
Proceed.
Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Heredeen. I do.
TESTIMONY OF HARVEY HERMAN HEREDEEN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JIM PHYPER
Mr. Appell. Would you state 3'our full name for the record?
Mr. Heredeen. Harvey Herman Heredeen.
Mr. Appell. H-e-r-e-d-e-e-n?
Mr. Heredeen. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today, Mr. Heredeen, in ac-
cordance with a subpena served upon you on November 6, 1965, at
4613 Jiggetts Road, Jackson, Mississippi, by Mr. Sullivan, an investi-
gator of this committee ?
Mr. Heredeen. Yes, sir, I am.
Mr. Appell. J-i-g-g-e-t-t-s?
Mr. Heredeen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Heredeen. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Piiyfer. Jim Phyfer, 518 East Pascagoula Street, Jackson,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Heredeen. I was born in Eastford, (Connecticut, October 9, 1898.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. Heredeen. I completed the ninth grade of grammar school in
Saugus, Massachusetts, and since then I have studied quite a bit in
the U.S. Navy.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background ?
Mr. Heredeen. Since what period, sir?
Mr. Appell. Well, you spent quite a bit of time in the U.S. Navy ?
Mr. Heredeen. Twenty-five years active duty in the Navy.
Mr. Appell, And I assume that covers the greater part of your
employment background, so, if you will start with the number of years
that you spent in the Navy, and when you retired, and your employ-
ment thereafter, I think that would take care of it, sir.
Mr. Heredeen. I am a veteran of World AVar I. I went into the
Navy in 1917 and I am a veteran also of World War II. I have 25 years*
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2761
active duty, 12 years of which was submarine duty. I retired on 30
years in 1948 and went to work at that time — in '4G 1 went to work for
the American Oil Company in Jackson, Mississippi. I worked for the
American Oil Company for 17 years. The last 10 years I was office
manager in the American Oil Company division office in Jackson,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Are you presently employed by them, sir ?
Mr. HEREDEEisr. I am retired now. I haven't hit a lick since 1963,
January 1st.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, the subpena served upon 3'ou, an attach-
ment thereto made a j^art of the subpena called upon you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated organizations namely the Missis-
sippi Constitutional Council and the ^Vhite Christian Protective and Legal De-
fense Fund in your possession, custody or control or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as an associate or affiliate member of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi.
I ask you, Mr. Heredeen, in the representative capacity set forth in
paragraph 1, to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, I object to the introduction of any records in
the proceeding on the grounds of the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments
to the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Well, that is not an answer to the question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed
The Chairman. I suppose you mean to say that you refuse to pi'o-
duce them on those grounds; is that correct? ^
Mr. Phyfer. Yes. No, sir. He said he objected.
The Chairman. Well, your objection is overruled. This is not the
subject of an objection.
Mr. Appell. I ask the witness be directed to produce the documenls
called for in paragraph 1 referred to.
The Chairman. Sir, you have been ordered to produce those docu-
ments in the representative capacity indicated in the subpena. Do you
understand that?
Mr. Heredeen. Yes.
The Chairman. If what you mean is that you refuse to produce the
documents on the basis of the constitutional provisions you referred to,
then I say that we reject and do not accept those provisions as the basis
for your refusal and, accordingly, I now direct and order you to pro-
duce them.
Mr. Heredeen. By the introduction of these records, I do not waive
any rights or legal defense that I liave under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th
amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the record should show that Mr. Here-
deen, in response to your direction, has produced bank ledger cards,
retained copies of deposit slips, a certification of audit, copies of can-
celed checks and invoices.
The Chairman. Sir, are the documents you produced all the docu-
ments called for by the subpena?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, all the records that I have access of, custody or
control of, have already been introduced into evidence.
2762 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Documents marked "Harvey Herecleen Exhibit No. 1" and re-
tained in committee files.)
The Chairman. That is not my question. My question is, Are those
records all of the documents called for?
Mr. Heredeen. I do not have access, custody, or control over any
additional records that were ordered by the subpena issued to me.
The Cpiairman. In other words, your position is, if the subpena
called for more docmnents, those are all you have?
Mr. Heredeen. I have my income tax records here.
The Chairman. I am now referring* to the part of the subpena read
by Mr. Appell. Your position is, as I understand it, that if the sub-
pena called for other records by this paragraph 1, then those you have
produced are the only records you have called for by paragraph 1 ?
Mr. Heredeen. Yes, sir; that is right.
The Chairman. You said those are all the records you have. Did
you have any further records since the service of the subpena that you
didn't produce for any reason, such as because you destroyed them or
did away with them or by any other reason?
Mr. Heredeen. Mr. Willis, I do not have access, custody, or control
of any additional records ordered by the subpena issued to me.
The Chairman. Did you have access to, or control over, other docu-
ments when that subpena was served? That is my point.
Mr. Heredeen. No, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, I hand you a
The Chairman. There is not time for the staff to be expected to
examine these documents in detail. After the documents have been
analyzed and have* served their purpose, they will be returned to you.
Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, through a subpena duces tecum, the
committee obtained from the Jackson-Hinds Bank, Jackson, Missis-
sippi, banking records pertaining to a checking account maintained
by the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund, Inc.,
Elmore D. Greaves, secretary-treasurer. Post Office Box 426, Jackson,
Mississippi, It shows the account was opened with a deposit January
18, 1965, in the amount of $5. The signature card signed 1/18/1965
reflects Harvey H. Heredeen, secretary-treasurer; Elmore D. Greaves,
chairman.
I hand you this and ask you if the signature '"Harvey H. Heredeen"
is your signature ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the ITni'ted States of
America.
(Documents marked "Harvey Heredeen Exhibit No. i2'" ap[)ear on
p. 2763.)
Mr. Appell. Now, Mr. Heredeen, the connnittee's investigations
established tliat solicitations of funds, documents which set forth the
purpose of the White Christian Protective and I^egal Defense Fund,
statements wliich set foitli the identity of the board of directors of
the organization were mailed out to people tlirougliout tlie State of
Mississippi.
As secretary of the organization, as the bank records reflect, to-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2763
Harvey Heredeen Exhibit No. 2
wHth: (iitut/ii.^N i'i',rii ni\;i- end
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giNOiviat/A.i
CA'""*"-''.
iNDS BAriiC y '? —■•'^/ 3(' "-^ Jackson, Missi5:.i?ri
J to recr^dlzf nny of tne Bl^nnluVc^ subscribed bn'.ow In the )i3yrf>- nt r.t
jili.M of Kuy business for ti.is account. It iS agreed that tv.X (i-.rs; lii
. l*f>cn . vu 4i;ui Uie undcr!.i^;r.c<l stall be Kovornt J by the rontracl printed o.. •
da ^f this card.
h!/.*^'-'^ ^-^ "re.-'
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ri-TiNATUPK
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NAn'fte AL.'TH'o.<>r< i>"Yi'0 (niTi^l dfpo* it
Ac;;ruNT opr.HFD ay
gether with being treasurer, Avhere are the documents which your
position as secretary required you to maintain ?
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, I do not have access, custody, or control over
any additional records ordered by the subpena issued to me.
Mr. Appell. As secretary-treasurer of the White Christian Protec-
tive and Legal Defense Fund, did you engage in any correspondence
in which you signed your name as the secret aiy-treasurer?
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Can you advise the committee as to why copies of none
of this correspondence are contained in these records ?
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Appell. In addition to signing letters over your own name as
secretary-treasurer, you sent out letters in which you signed the name
of the chairman per your signature. Can you explain to the committee
why copies of none of this correspondence are among the records sub-
mitted in response to the subpena if
Mr. Heredeex. I must respectfully decline to answer that question
for reasons previously stated.
2764 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Well, let me ask you this question — it would be more
responsive if you said you didn't-keep copies — did you keep copies ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, have you attended State executive meet-
ings— cabinet meetings of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
Mississippi ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Are you presently a member of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. As secretary-treasurer, do you know it to be a fact that
the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund was created
as an instrumentality of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of
privilege
The Chairman. Let me ask a question on that. Sir, I want to make
it plain that to me, anyway, as chairman of this committee and as a
lawyer, I am not inquiring into the propriety of anyone raising funds
for the defense of anyone, but we are interested in the activities of the
Klan.
Now, my question is this : Was the AVhite Christian Protective and
Legal Defense Fund, Lie, a Klan activity ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Was the organization formed as an inducement to
nonmembers of the Klans to contribute, not knowing that it was a
Klan activity ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I must re-
spectf ullv decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Was the White Christian Protective and Legal
Defense Fund, Lie, in fact formed to give it respectability, so that peo-
ple who were not members of the Klan would contribute to it in the
belief that it was a white Christian protective association ?
Mr. Heredeen. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Isn't it a fact that much, if not most, of the funds
collected was solicited from and received from people in the Jackson
area — whatever area the fund operated in — who were not members
of the Klan ?
Mr. IL:redeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Isn't it a fact that this was one more cover or front
organization behind which the Klan organization was hiding?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to reflect at this
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2765
point, even thong-li we will need some time to make an examination of
all of these checks, that one of the checks supplied by Mr. Heredeen
in response to the snbpena is against the account of the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund and is payable to Thomas E.
Gunter, the precednig- witness, in the amount of $178.65, cosigned by
Elmore D. Greaves as chairman and H. H. Heredeen as secretary-
treasurer.
(Document marked ''Harvey Heredeen Exhibit No. 3" follows:)
Harvey Heredeen Exhibit No. 3
_^ ________ ^
.I.vtKSo.N. Mlss. February 8ju_i26i__ 10
X
- al
Tiomasi 5;. liunter
' ■ ■ 1
1
l'(il.I.AKS
;h-i 1 rnan ^, mi-* IV -\1. ' ■■--.i^u-/'.' .
St tan
jefense
-r?35-5
Prol|s|t.ivf!:.#;
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privilege
and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the com-
mittee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Heredeen
and the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.
In January 1965, the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense
Fund was organized for the purpose of raising funds for those arrested
in Philadelphia, Mississippi, for involvement in the murder of the
three civil rights workers and unidentified persons arrested in Merid-
ian, Mississippi.
Present at meetings held during the period for the purpose of creat-
ing the fund were : Sam Bowers, Imperial Wizard, White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan; Elmore D. Greaves, the chairman of the fund;
Julius Harper, the Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi ; Gordon Lackey, a province official ; J. K.
Greer, a Klan official ; I. H. "Pete" Shumaker; John Bostick; and E. L.
''Tiny-' Lewis.
On January 31, 1965, a meeting of the Klan cabinet was held in
Jackson, Mississippi. Present at tliis meeting were Pete Shumaker,
the Reverend Delmar Dennis, and Harvey H. Heredeen, all formal
members of the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.
Imperial Wizard Bowers stated at this meeting that the main purpose
of the meeting was for raising funds for the defense of the 18 de-
fendants who had been arrested for their participation in the murder
of Schwerner, Goodman, and Chaney. Bernard L. Akin, one of the
18, was present at this meeting.
Bowers stated that the White Christian Protective and Legal De-
fense Fund had been formed by the White Knights and was the prin-
cipal funclraising organization created and organized by the White
Knights.
He further stated that only active members of the White Knights
would be allowed to serve on the board of directors of the fund.
2766 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Plans already adopted for solicitation by mail and through placing
of sealed jars in restaurants, filling- stations, and other places of public
accommodation were announced.
In Februaiy, Secretary-treasurer Heredeen reported that State
Chairman Greaves had met with the represent iative of the Neshoba
County Defense Fund. At this meeting it was agi'eed that the White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund would not solicit in
Neshoba County, nor would the funds merge.
In March 1965, Imperial Wizard Bowers reported at a State cabinet
meeting that the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund
would be a permanent organization not only to raise funds for the
Philadelphia defendants, but also for the defense of any Klansman
accused of committing racial violence.
Bowers reported that the Jackson-Hines Bank, which had not
given its authority to mailing out its drafts, had disassociated itself in
every way from this fund. Thereafter, funds should be mailed to the
fund in care of its post office box.
Also in March 1965, the White Christian Protective and Legal De-
fense Fund held a meeting at Brookhaven, Mississippi. Heredeen
and Greaves were given the right to provide funds for any white
Christian who may be indicted or forced to stand trial because of a
civil rights act, without prior approval of the board.
At a meeting of the White Knights in August 1965, held near
Florence, Mississippi, at which H. H. Heredeen was present. Grand
Dragon of the Wliite Knights Billy Buckles requested that $500 be
sent to Greenwood, Mississippi, for the three arrested for arson.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Heredeen
possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant
to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting
remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Heredeen, you have heard the sworn state-
ment of the committee's investigator. You now have an opportunity
to reply to any portion of that statement, confirm or deny the ac-
curacy of the information, or explain any part of it. In addition, you
may, if you desire, offer any other matter the conunittee may deem
relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity 'i
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I say to you, therefore, sir, that absent your rebut-
tal of the facts that have come to the attention of the committee, this
committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Bearing this in mind, do you have anything to say ?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for reasons previously stated by me, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Mr. Heredeen, I asked questions a while ago that
Mr. Appell's sworn statement brought back to my memory, ({uestions
about certain facts of which I am aware. We have received evidence
to the effect that this defense fund indeed was a coveruj) Klan organ-
ization or activity; that what was described as jugs were deposited in
many, many, many [)laces of business in Mississip[)i — restaurants,
hotels, motels, stores, and what not; and that people were made to
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2767
believe that this was not a Klan activity ; that contributions were made
on that belief. And I recall, even, that it was stated under oath that
one fruitful source of collections was in cafes and saloons where, after
people had many drinks, they wanted to respond and did respond
pretty heavily to the fund — people who had no knowledge that this was
a Klan activity and that jugs or buckets were in fact controlled, placed,
and the funds collected, by members of the Klan. Is that correct?
Mr. Heredeen. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The CiiAiRMAx. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, do you know the Grand Dragon of the
"White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Julius Harper?
Mr. Heredeex. vSir, for the reasons previously stated by me, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Heredeen, on February 20, 1965, at approximately
6 p.m., did you meet up with Julius Harper, him driving a white 1964
Chevrolet and you driving a 1964 Oldsmobile, and thereafter go off
to a secret meeting of the Klan ?
Mr. Heredeex. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I
must respectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Sexxer. Mr. Heredeen, you said you had some income tax
forms. Before you deliver them to the committee, I would like to
ask this question : Are they the income tax for the White Christian
Protection and Legal Defense Fund, Inc., or are they your own?
Mr. Heredeex. Mr. Senner, these are my personal income tax rec-
ords as the subpena calls for.
The Chairmax. He didn't ask you to produce them, in fact, and if
he had, I would not have ordered you to produce them.
Let me ask you this : Did you ever receive any income coming from
Klan activities?
Mr. Heredeex. Would you repeat the question, please ?
The Chairmax. Let me get right to the point. I have in my hand
an envelope containing five checks issued by the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund, payable to H. H. Heredeen or
cash. Now, I say to you, of course, those checks were issued but, to
be fair, did you use the moneys represented by those checks for your
own use, or did you pass the f vmcls over to anybody else ?
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Documents marked "Harvey Heredeen Exhibit No. 4" and re-
tained in committee files.)
The Chairmax. I said a moment ago I would not have directed
the production of your personal income tax. I meant to add "if you
liad invoked the fifth amendment.""
The subpena called on you to produce coj^ies of the income tax re-
turn of the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund, that
is, called upon to produce them in your capacity as secretary-treasurer.
Did you bring them with you ? If you filed it ; if one was filed.
Mr. Heredeex. Sir, all of the records ordered by the subpena issued
to me that I have access, custody, or control of have already been in-
troduced into evidence.
2768 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. I say to you it is our information that this outfit
did not file any income tax return. The Internal Revenue people so
informed us.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
Mr. Sennbr. I think you covered it very well, Mr. Chairhian.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Elmore D. Greaves.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Greaves. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ELMORE DOUGLAS GREAVES, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JIM PHYEER
Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Grea\t:s. Elmore Douglas Greaves.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing before the committee in accordance
with the subpena served upon you by Investigator Sullivan of this com-
mittee on November 6, 1965, at Route 1, Box 140, Madison, Mississippi ?
Mr. Greaves. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Greaves. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Phyfer. Jim Phyfer, 518 East Pascagoula Street, Jackson, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, after receipt of the subpena served upon
you, did you dispatch a Western Union telegram to the chairman of
this committee with reference to the service of that subpena ?
Mr. Greaves, Yes, I did.
Mr. Appell. I would like to read this into the record and ask if this
is the telegram you sent to the chairman :
Be advised we hereby petition the House Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties to proceed in executive sessions for the following reasons :
1. Washington, D.C. is notoriously one of the most crime ridden cities in the
United States and it is placing ourselves in great personal danger to arrive in or
travel about that District in our automobiles bearing Mississippi State license
plates. No precautions have been made by your committee to safeguard our
lives or persons or property while there.
2. Our sons and bothers now face Communist elements in A'ietnam in a deadly
war. These same Communist elements fill the first several rows of your com-
mittee hearings, operating tape recorders and cameras. Those Communists at-
tending these hearings include representatives of The Worker, Communist news-
paper, and the 'National Guardian, cited by your committee. House Report Num-
ber 312.3, September 21, 19r»0, as "a virtual official propaganda arm of Soviet
Russia", as well as other un-American elements who daily pack these hearings.
3. Southern citizens who have recently appeared before your committee in
Washington have revealed that these Communists in attendance have boasted to
them that they "were there to identify our people so that further action could
be taken against us."
4. We strongly protest the unfair and unreasonable manner of handling these
subpenas. They were issued by your committee on October 0, 196.j, but were not
served until November 6, 1965 ; late Saturday afternoon. This manner of han-
dling is in violation of your committee's own rules of procedure, which states :
III. Subpenaing of witnesses :
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2769
"B. Witnesses shall be subpenaed at a reasonably sufficient time in advance
of any hearing, said time to be determined by the committee or subcommittee, in
order to give the witness an opportunity to prepare for the hearing and to em-
ploy counsel, should he so desire."
Your subpeua leaves only five working days of preparation and travel time
from the State of Mississippi to Washington, D.C.
5. We feel that the further holding of these hearings under present condi-
tions and in the present location is to subject the witness, his attorney and
members of his family to greater danger than we would face as soldiers in
Vietnam. The committee is urged to selec[t] a site and under conditions
less hostile and less frought [sic] with real and actual danger.
The congressional Committee on Un-American Activities has had a long and
creditable record for its efforts in behalf of the United States and its patriots
and in investigating the internal threats to our national security from Con-
gressman Martin Dies to Congressman Francis E. Walter. We would have
deemed it a privilege to have appeared before this committee in such investi-
gations. During the past several years, however, investigations by your com-
mittee have obviously been un-American. The current hearings appear to be
purely political in their purposes and carried on as a basis for un-American
propaganda.
Communist demonstrators ran the committee under the bed in the San Fran-
cisco hearings and now it emerges with its front rows filled with Communists.
For these reasons patriots are uncertain of the motives behind subpenas lately
issued and so are ill-prepared to appear before this committee.
Elmore D. Greaves, Editor-Publisher The Southern Review.
Mr. Greaves, did you dispatch this telegram ?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, I sent that.
(Document marked "Elmore Greaves Exhibit No. 1" and retained
in committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Did you believe all of the contents in it to be based
upon information which you had received as I set forth to the com-
mittee about the attendance of the people at the hearings and the
people here with quotes and other things as you set forth in this
telegram ?
Mr. Greaves. I believed this from the information I had.
Mr. Appell. Would you advise the committee the source of your
information ?
Mr. Greaves. The question you asked me is who the source of this
information is?
Mr, Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Greaves. The source was given to me as a newspaper editor.
The Chairman. And?
Mr. Senner. And you claim privilege?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, I do.
The Chairman. You mean, you invoke the privilege of a newspaper-
man not to disclose your source of information ?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, 1 do, sir; and of the fiftli amendment.
The Chairman. Of what?
Mr. Greaves. Also of the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. This committee is not in the business of prying
into legitimate operations of the press, I assure you. I am not going
to order and direct you to answer the question that you reveal your
sources. But when did you arrive in Washington ?
Mr. Greaves. I believe, sir, on Tuesday.
The Chairman. Did you personally experience the things which
you said in that telegram your sources said they had experienced?
Mr. Greaves. I did not.
2770 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chair:m:.vn. Did you see in and around the hearing room, the
Capitol, anywhere else, the presence of Communists influencing the
committee or doing the things that you said your source told you were
going on ?
Mr. Greaves. I did not see that, sir.
The Chairman. Do you have reason to believe that those things
are going on ?
Mr. Greaves. From what 1 have seen, sir, since my presence here
I have no reason to believe that is occurring at this time.
The Chairman. And you make the reservation of "at this time.''
So that whatever was related to you in the past would be from the
sources that you cannot reveal. Is that correct ?
Mr. Greaves. That is correct.
The Chairman. You applaud in your telegram the creditable rec-
ords of this committee under the regime and leadership, chairman-
ship, of the Honorable, my good friend, Martin Dies, and my late,
lamented friend Francis Walter of Pennsylvania, and you stop there.
Since your appearance in Washington and your attendance at these
hearings, do you have any reason to believe that the functions of my
chairaianship and the membership of the gentlemen whom you have
seen are any less creditable ?
Mr. Grea^-es. From what I have seen, sir, I would say that they are
not less so.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the subpena served upon you did not in
any manner or form mention the Southern Review; did it, sir ?
Mr. Greaves. It did not, sir.
Mr. Appell. So that the subpena was not sen-ed upon you as a
newspaperman, nor did it call for your appearance as a newspaper-
man.
Mr. Greaves. It was not served upon me in that capacity; no, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, when and where were you born?
Mr. Greaves. Hinds County, Jackson, Mississippi, 1926.
Mr. Appell. Month and day ?
Mr. Greaves. March 15, 1926.
Mr. Appell. Do you presently reside at Route 1, Box 140, Madison,
Mississippi ?
Mr. Greaves. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Greaves. I am, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Phyfer. Jim Phyfer, 518 East Pascagoula Street, Jackson,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a resume of your edu-
cational background, Mr. Greaves ?
Mr. Greaves. I had 4 years in college.
Mr. Appell. Graduating from where, and when ?
Mr. Greaves. I did not graduate. I withdrew from law school
upon the death of my father in 1951.
Mr. Appell. 1951?
Mr. Grea\t:s. Yes.
Mr. Appell. Have you had military service, sir.
Mr. Greaves. Two years in the Navy during the Second World
War.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2771
Mr. Appell. Durino; what years ?
Mr. Greaves, From 1944 to^ 1946.
Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your employment
backgromid.
Mr. Greaves. I liave been self-employed since 1951 as an inde-
pendent cotton fanner.
The Chairman. Cotton farmer?
Mr. Greaves. Cotton fanner; yes, sir.
The Chairman. A noble occupation. I am a cotton farmer myself.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the subpena served upon you contained
an attachment, whicli Avas made part of the subpena, and under the
conditions of the subpena ordered you to bring with you and to
produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, and affiliated organizations, namely. White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund and the Mississippi Constitutional
Council, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available
to you as present or past member or an associate of the Wliite Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Greaves. All of the records ordered by the subpena to me that
I have access, custody, or control of have already been introduced
into evidence.
The Chairman. Mr. Senner.
Mr. Senner. What was the answer?
Mr. Appell. That the documents the subpena called upon him to
produce have already been produced and are in the record, the docu-
ments available to him or in his custody or in his control.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Greaves, who introduced those documents? Could
you name those individuals?
Mr. Greaves. That is already in the record.
Mr. Senner. Who introduced them into the record? That was
my question.
The Chairman. Let me ask you this question. Do you mean they
were produced through the witness Mr. Heredeen?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you have any other documents in your posses-
sion not produced by Mr. Heredeen? I mean documents relating to
Klan activities.
Mr. Greaves. Sir, I have no other records in my possession called
for by the subpena.
The Chairman. Did you ever have any?
Mr. Greaves. I never did have any.
The Chairman. Do you know of any documents called for by the
subpena that were destroyed?
Mr. Greaves. No, sir, I do not.
The Chairman. I already indicated the documents produced by
Mr. Heredeen would, of course, be examined and perused carefully
and studied and will be returned after they have served their purpose.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, in response to a question as to w^hether
or not you ever had the documents or they were destroyed, you said,
I believe, not to your knowledge. Xow, this is a defense fund to which
people contributed money. Some money was received in the form of
2772 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
donations through the mail, accompanied by letters. Wliere are the
records which reflect such contributions to the funds?
Mr. GREA^TS. Mr. Appell, all the records issued by the subpena
issued to me that I have access to, custody or control of, all of them
have already been introduced into evidence.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, we have been advised by the Internal Rev-
enue Service that no tax return has been filed by the fund, and there
is nothing in the report submitted to us about income. These are
items of disbursement. Are you testifying you have no records to
justify and set forth the income which this finid has received?
Mr. Grea\t:s. Sir, with all due respect, I repeat the previous state-
ment that all of the records, that is all of them, ordered by the
subpena issued to me that I have had access to, or control or custody
of, have already been introduced into evidence.
The Chairman. You were chairman of that entity called the White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund; were you not?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion and invoke as defense the privileges guaranteed to me in the
5th, the 1st, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United
States.
The Chairman. As Mr. Appell said, it was our information the
corportion did not, in fact, file an income tax return. Is that infor-
mation correct ?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. In soliciting funds to be used by that entity or
corporation, were representations made that contributions or dona-
tions would be tax-free ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr.' Senner. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Greaves, you stated w^ith
some degree of authority in your answer that all documents of this
corporation have been heretofore produced before this committee.
'Wliat makes you so sure that all records and documents have been
produced to this committee by the corporation?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, all of the records ordered by the subpena issued
to me that I had access, custody, or control of have already been in-
troduced into evidence.
Mr. Senner. By Mr. Heredeen. That was your answer and you
were very positi\'e about that. My question to you is: How do you
knoAv that all records and documents required by the subpena were
introduced or produced by Mr. Heredeen and presented to this com-
mittee? Did you look at all of the documents and records Mr. Here-
deen siipplied?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, I only know what I had access, custody, and con-
trol of.
Mr. Senner. And then apparently you turned that over to Mr.
Heredeen and then you looked at Mr. Heredeen's records and you
know as a fact, and you testified to the fact, that these records
you did have m your possession have been produced and delivered
to this committee. Do you testify to this as a positive fact ?
Mr. Greaves. Yes.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2773
Mr. Senner. And you looked at those records ?
Mv. Greaves. Yes.
The Chairman. The subpena served upon you called for, among
other things, correspondence relating to the organization of and con-
duct of business affairs of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi and its affiliated organization, the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund. As chairman of this entity did
you have correspondence, engage in correspondence?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, for the previous reasons stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you maintain files of that fund containing let-
ters received and copies of letters sent ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, in answer to that question let me reiterate
that all of the records ordered by the subpena issued to me that I have
had access to, custody, or control have already been introduced into
evidence.
The Chairman. I won't accept that because it is not responsive.
What I asked you is : Did you, as chairman, keep files and do you now
have in your possession files containing original letters received by you
as chairman and containing copies of letters you sent out ?
(Witness confers w^ith counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, I kept no further files.
The Chairman. That is still not responsive. I am going to hang
on until you answer. Did you maintain files, did you keep files as
chairman, containing letters received from anyone and copies of let-
ters sent out by you and signed by you ?
(Witness confers with comisel.)
The Chairman. In your representative capacity.
Mr. Phyfer. May we have the question reread, please, sir ?
The Chairman. Read the question.
(The question was read by the reporter. )
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, for the reason previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you keep in your files a copy of the telegram
you sent to me ?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Graves, shortly after the fund was formed, did
you send a letter to each subscriber of the newspaper, the Southern
Revietv, in which the letter set forth that Elmore D. Greaves was the
State chairman of the AVhite Christian Protective and Legal Defense
Fimd? Did this letter also set forth the post office box as being Box
426, Jackson, Mississippi, and did it also identify as the directors
Mr. Glen Swettman, Biloxi, Mississippi ; Mr. I. H. "Pete" Shumaker,
of Kosciusko, Mississippi; the Reverend Delmar Dennis, Meridian,
Mississippi ; and James M. Hooper of Sidon, Mississippi '^
Mr. GREA^•ES. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that.
Mr. Appell. I ]:>ut it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the letter to which I am referring requested the receiver
to contribute money to the defense of "any White Christian patriot,"
2774 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IK THE U.S.
who has or may be indicted and forced to stand trial for some real or
imagined infraction of the Coirununist-inspired Civil Rights Act.
Some of these letters were accompanied by a sheet containin<r the
articles of formation of the organization and rules and procedures
for placing and collecting of jars to be used in the collection of money
for the organization.
Mr. GREA^^:s. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. At any time did you advise anyone that the White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund was a project of the
"\Aniite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Gre.wes. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the previous gromids.
The Chairman. You were in the hearing room, were you not, when
I explained to the previous witness that as chairman of this conniiittee
and as a Member of Congress, as a lawyer. I have no objection, and
certainly can have none, to funds being raised for the defense of
anyone. But the pertinency of these questions relates to the Klan
activities. Just as a fact, you were in the hearing room when I made
that statement; were you not?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you have any comments to make upon what I
just stated?
( Witness confers with counsel . )
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, I have no comments to make, sir.
The Chairman. You Avere in the hearing room when, along the
same Ime, I pointed out that we were interested in and it was pertinent
to this inquiry the fact, if it was a fact — and I related certain things
about it to my personal knowledge — as to whether or not this entity,
the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund, Inc., was
being used as a facade of respectability in order to hide the fact — we
may as well be frank — that it was really a Klan activity. You were in
the room when I made those statements and that I had personal
knowledge of the activity of the fund ?
Mr. Greaves. I was here, sir.
The Chairman. Do you have any comments to make ?
Mr. Greaves. No, sir ; I have no comments.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, were you also here when I read to Mr.
Heredeen the committee's investigative result as to the organization
of the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund? Were
you present ?
Mr. Greaves. Yes, I was present.
Mr. Appell. Do you have any comment to make upon the investiga-
tive result as set forth to Mr. Heredeen ?
Mr. Greaves. I have no comment at all, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, are you a membei- of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississii)pi ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated I re-
spectfully decline to answer tliat question.
Mr. Appell. On January ?>l, 1065, did you attend a meeting of any
sort held at an abandoned farm house near a lake otl' Raymond Road
outside of Jackson, Mississippi ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2775
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons already mentioned, I respectfully
decline to answer that.
Mr. ArPELL. Mr. Greaves, according to the committee's investiga-
tion, there was a meeting held there on January 31 and it was a State
Klan cabinet meeting of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi. The main purpose for the assembling of Klansmen
there was an activity — other meetings in January were called — was
for the purpose of discussing and talking up the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund. During the course of this meet-
ing. Imperial Wizard Bowers made a speech with respect to the danger
the South was in from infiltration. Were you present when he made
that speech, sir ?
(Witness confers with counsel) .
Mr. Grea\tes. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. According to the committee's investigation, Mr. Bowers
stated that he had confidential information from high influential
sources that African troops were being landed in Cuba for extensive
military training. This is why he and the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan had long-range plans for a buildup of arms and a
burial of such arms. He elaborated that after these troops are landed
they will lead an invasion of the United States at Biloxi and Gulfport,
Mississippi. When the invasion commences. Defense Secretary Mc-
Namara will nationalize the State Guard and turn the Southern
Stat-es over to the Negro. Whites will be relocated and moved to
the North. The Klan will be the only element to fight the invasion.
Bowers concluded his remarks by stating that the choice that is avail-
able is "to be smart and move or be right and fight."
Were you present and heard that speech?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, I have great hesitancy to ask you because
you publish a newspaper, but I have before me an article that appeared
in the Meridian. Mississippi, Star. November 8, 1964. According to
the article as it appeared in the Meridian Star, and' it was a paid
advertisement, there is reproduced what the paid advertisement
claimed to have appeared in the October 1, 1964, issue of the Sonfhern
Review. It is :
On Being Investigated By The F.B.I.
"Our Washington correspondent writes the following report. In view of the
fact that an increasing number of white people are being questioned in Mississippi
by F.B.I. Agents, as an outgrowth of the Mississippi Summer Project, and are be-
ing harassed to an extent never before known, it is of special importance to give
his conclusions :
a. When the FBI agent calls upon you, insist upon complete identification.
They carry their credentials (plus a photograijh) , and you have a right to examine
those credentials carefully and in detail. Copy down the name, address, and
FBI number of the agent.
b. The FBI agent is supposed to tell you that you are not required to answer
his questions. Some agents tell you that, but others do not. If the agent does
not make that introductory statement, ask him if you are vmder a court order to
provide information.
c. Say nothing to the FBI agent. When questioned, say "no comment."
d. The FBI agents are given special training in regard to the silent subject who
refuses to answer questions. They will try to make you angry, in order that your
59-222 O— 67— pt. .3 29
2776 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
tongue may be loosened. They will play upon your sympathy. ("I don't like this
assignment, Mr. I am a Southerner, too — but I have been ordered by my
Kennedy-appointed superior to question you."), and they will try flattery as
well. The best way to defeat such training is to apply the following three rules :
(1) silence; (2) more silence; (3) still more silence.
e. Be careful of the FBI man who calls you down to his automobile and opens
a conversation with you at that location. There will most certainly be a tape
recorder in the ear, and your conversation will find its ways to Washington via
air mail. * * *"
This continues along this line Mr. Greaves. I ask you, do you have
proof to substantiate that which was contained in this paid advertise-
ment, which is a reproduction of an article according to the ad which
appeared in the October 1, 1964, issue of the Southern Review?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, may we see the ad ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
(Docmnent handed to witness.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Chairman, on the grounds of the first amendment,
I object to this question and say that it is an invasion of the right of free
speech and of the press.
(Document marked "Elmore Greaves Exhibit Xo. 2" appears on
p. 2777.)
The Chairman. I assure you that there is no such intent in asking
the question. We are developing activities, methods, and tecliniques of
Klan organizations. I might tell you, Mr. Greaves, that in my opinion
the greatest force of the Klan thus far has been its secrecy. If sub-
jected to the light of day, it will fold up quickly. But I am not going
to order you to answer that question. Perhaps, however, Mr. Appell
might
Mr. Appell. I would like to now ask Mr. Greaves whether it is in
there as his independent position as a newspaperman or whether it is
in there because of his membership in the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan.
(Witness confers w'ith counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, I object to that question again on the first
amendment and I think that is a violation of the right of freedom of
speech and of the press.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman, I suppose in this instance you are
stressing freedom of speech rather than of press because he distin-
guished clearly between Mr. Greaves the newspaperman and Mr.
Greaves the Klansman.
(Witness confers wdth counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. In objecting to this, I am relying on the first and fifth
amendments. Will you uphold it ?
The Chairman. I certainly will uphold it.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Grea\es, does the Southern Revieio
The Chairman. That respects activities as a Klansman.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Greav^es, does the Southern Revieio have a Wash-
ington correspondent?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Chairman, I object to that on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
The Chairman. And that includes what ?
Mr. Greaves. That includes the first amendment and the fifth
amendment.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2777
Elmore Greaves Exhibit No. 2
[Meridian (Miss.) Star, Nov. 8, 1964, p. \3~A]
Tbf (oHowiDC is baing reproduced from the Odober 1, UM.
inue o( Dm Soutbera B«vi<;w. P.O. Box <M. Jaekaoo. Mi*-
tiMippi, br Um Umderdalc County Citiienx' CouBcfl. Inc.,
M a public fcrvlca, m order that citixens may know iMr
rlfbu. In M deiac tba Cllizeiu' CouociJ does not imply that
inforTTuUea ia any raaJ criminaJ tovestixatioo tbould b*
withbtid (ran) iavcatltatiiif officers.
On Being Investigated By
The F.6.I.
"Our WafhingtoD cerrctpond^t writes the foUowint re-
port. In view of th« (act that an increasing Dumber of white
people are being qucstioocd in Mtssiuippi by F.B.I. Agenta,
as ao mtgrewth o( the Mississippi Siaiuner Project, aod
are being harauad to an extent never before known. It ia of
special Impertanca to give liis conclusions.
a. When the FBI agent calls upon you, Inaiat upon com-
plete identification. They carry their cn-dentiala 'plus a
photograph), and you have a right to examine those cre-
dentials carefully and in deUU. Copy down the name, ad-
dress, and FBI Borobar o( the agent.
b. 'Hie FBI agent is supposed tc tell you that you are
Dot required to answer his qiKsLions Some agents tell you
that, but others do not. If the agent docs not make that
introductory gtatainent, ask huT> if you are under a court
order to provide information
c Say nothing to the FBI agent When questioned, say
no comment "
d The FBI agents are given special training in regard
to the jUenl subject who refuses to answer questions. They
will try to make you angry, in order that your tongue may
be loosened They will play upon your sympathy i' I don't
like this as^ignm!nt. Mr - -■ Im a Southerner, too— but
I have betn ordered by my Kennedy appointed superior to
question you '1. and they »ill try flallery as well The best
way to defeat »(<ch training is to apply the following three
rules: 111 silenceX.'!' more silence: 131 still more silence
e Be careful of thei'Bi.man who calls you down to his
automobile and opens i*>nversatlon with you at that loca-
Uon There will moat ctrtainly be a tape recorder in the
car, and your conversation will find iu way to Washington
via air niail
( U meetings »n held at your home, someone wiU check
the numbers on the license plates in order to trace the
nanrte and addraas of the Individual owner
g Your telephone could be tapped, and your house could
be "bugged ■■ You can throw a legal monkey wrench into
those practices by saying, at a meeting or over the tele-
phone, "If my conversaUon is being recorded, it is being
done so without my permission " By recording that state-
ment, the FBI 'will be destroying the court value o( the
"bug." 'As you know, a bug" is a small nucropbooe )
h I( you are under a court order to provide informa-
tioa to the FBI, you do not have to say anythuig without
first consulting your attorney In other words, you arc en-
titled to the presence of your attorney before you make a
statement.
i FBI agents are graduates of law schools. 1 e . they are
lawyers. One of the weak points about the FBI is that its
agenU can frequently be spotted: A lawyer looks like a
lawyer The FBI uses persons other than lawyers, of course,
and those persons frequently infiltrate organixatioas in order
to eogage In spy work."
2778 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. The document attributed to you, the ad attributed
to you states, "Our Washington correspondent writes the following
report." Do you have a Washington correspondent?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, I object again on the basis of the fifth
amendment and the first amendment.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the issue of November 15, 1964, contains
an article captioned "A Police State Exists In South Mississippi" and
quotes a resolution adopted by an organization identified in the issue
as the Adams County Civic and ''Bettermen" Association. I put it
to you as a fact that the Adams County Civic and Betterment Associ-
ation is a cover name for a Klavem of the Klan and I ask you whether
you possessed the same knowledge.
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Elmore Greaves Exhibit No. 3" follows:)
Elmore Greaves Exhibit No. 3
[The Southern Review, ]a.ckson. Miss., Nov. 15, 1964]
A Police State Exists In
South Mississippi
When the Adama County Civic and Bettermen Association passes
resolntions deploring: (He^^uiilawful arrests and' search by members^ of the
MimissipfH Highway Patrol'', then this is a serious matter indeed ; and a
noatter about which every patriotic citizen should concern himself: and
to protest to the constituted authorities. The citizens of Adams County
further charged in the resolution that "a police state now exists in this
section of the State of Mississippi in direct violation of our fundamenUl
Constitutional rights." This condition was created by the activities of the
Communst directed NAACP, CORE, SNCC, COFO and the National Coun-
cil of Churches— that great "Christian" body. It is a strange thing that
no members of these revolutionary groups have been restrained by court
orders, or, as far as can be ascertained, arrested or held for any length of
time. However, there have been several instances of arrests of revolution-
ists and their immediate release. But there have been many instances of
arrest, detention, search without warrants, harrassment, and abuse of
white citizens of these communities. The incident of the so-called bombing
cases is the most glaring of the.se violations; and the one that shows most
clearly the arrogant, and tyrannical nature of the State g»n'ernment doing
the bidding of the 'Lyndon Johnson apparatus.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, are you presently a member of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the Laurel, Mississippi, Call-Leader^
issue of January 11, 1966
The Chairman. That is Tuesday of this week.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2779
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir — contained a story from Jackson, Mississippi,
AP byline :
A white supremacist editor today accused Senator James Eastland, Dem.,
Miss, and Governor Paul Johnson of plotting his snbpena to the Congressional
Ku Klnx Klan hearings to silence his newspaper.
Mr. Greaves, do you have any proof of that statement?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. That appeared in another paper and the source is
yourself. Let us get that straight now. We are not stepping; on your
toes as a newspaperman. You are your ovrn source here.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the story contained this quote:
"Although I am not a member of the Ku Klux Klan," Greaves said. "I am
in sympathy with its philosophy as I understand it. That is. I believe in the
Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the principle of white supremacy. * * *"
Mr. Greaves, are you accurately quoted ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that question.
The Chairmax. I have no doubt that you have expressed yourself in
similar fashion, that is, you believe in what
Mr. Appell. "The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the prin-
ciple of white supremacy."
The Chairman. No, believe in the principles of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Appell. No, sir. " 'Although I am not a member of the Ku
Klux Klan,' Greaves said, 'I am in sympathy Avith its philosophy as
I understand it. * * "' '"
The Chairman. I will give you an opportunity in your own way,
applaud it to the sky, if you want to, to tell us about the objectives,
purposes, and programs of the Ku Klux Klan as you understand them.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Grea\ts. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greaves, the constitution of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan supports only the Constitution of the United States
as originally written. Is this the Constitution that you agree with
and that you support according to the quote that appeared in the paper ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Appell, for the reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer that.
The Chairman. Mr. Greaves, as chairman of the fund that we talked
about, did you received any compensation ?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you receive any funds from the fund that you
reported on your individual income tax return?
Mr. Greaves. Mr. Willis, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Greaves, why is it on this fund Avhen you used the
posters and circulars, and so forth, you did not put incorporated? Is
there any reason ?
Mr. (treaa-es. For reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline
to answer that.
2780 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. .
Mr. Senxer. In the State of Mississippi, when do you. have a cor-
poration ? Do you need three incorporators, or do you know ?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, I do not know.
Mr. Senner. The head of the corporation would be the president;
would he not?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. GREA^TS. Sir, which corporation were you speaking of?
Mr. Senner. I am talking about the AVhite Christian Protective and
Legal Defense Fund, Inc.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that.
Mr. Senner. Isn't it a fact that you are president of that corpora-
tion?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Is it true that the fund was truly set up for the pur-
pose of raising money for Klansmen who were arrested in the acts of
violence ?
Mr. Greaves. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused and the committee will stand
in recess until 10 :30 tomorrow morning.
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Senner,
and Clawson.)
(Wliereupon, at 6 :15 p.m., Thursday, January 13, 1966, the com-
mittee recessed to reconvene at 10:30 a.m., Friday, January 14, 1966.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
FRIDAY, JANUARY 14, 1966
United States House of Representatives,
subc0]mmitteb of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D.C.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to recess, at 11:35 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon
House Office Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin E. Willis
(chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Lou-
isiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of Geor-
gia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present : Representatives Willis, Pool, Welt-
ner, and Buchanan.
Committee member also present : Representative George F. Senner,
Jr., of Arizona.
Staff members present : Francis J. McNamara, director ; William
Hitz, general counsel; and Donald T. Appell, chief investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Mr. Appell, call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. J. N. Fortenberry.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Fortenberry. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES NOLAN FORTENBERRY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberiy, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Fortenberry. James Nolan Fortenberry.
Mr. Appell. Your middle name is Nolan, N-o-l-a-n ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes.
Mr. Appell. And your last name is Fortenberry ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes.
2781
2782 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, are you appearing here in accordance
with a subpena served upon you November 6, 1965, at 281 Mikell,
Jackson, Mississippi ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes, sir, I am.
Mr. Appell, Will counsel identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackvfell, attorney at law, Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry when and where were you bom?
Mr. Fortenberry. Jefferson Davis County, November 29, 1932.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ^
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes, sir. I finished high school at Prentiss Con-
solidated School, 2 years at Mississippi College before I enlisted in
the Army.
Mr. Appell. What was your Army service?
Mr. Fortenberry. I was 3 years in the regular Army, was overseas
for a year and half with NATO.
Mr. Appell. And what period of time did your military service
cover ?
Mr. Fortenberry. From February 18, 1953, until February 10, 1956.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, under the terms of the subpena served
upon you, in an attachment thereto made a part of tlie subpena you
were ordered to bring with you and produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated organizations, namely The
Mississippi Constitutional Council in your possession, custody or control or
maintained by you or available to you as present or past member or Klan Bureau
Investigator, White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Fortenberry, will you produce the documents called for in the
representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1 of the subpena?
Mr. Fortenberry. I cannot produce sucli records due to the fact
that such records are not in my possession, custody, and control and I
did not and do not have access to such records.
Mr. Appp:ll. Mr. Fortenberry, you hold the position of an organizer
or the kieagle of tlie Whito Kniglits of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed me by the 4th,
1st, 5th, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, under the constitution and laws of
the AYhite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, an organizer in initiating
men into the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is supposed to pre-
pare documents with four copies and make distribution of those docu-
ments as set forth in the constitution and laws.
Did you make such distribution of those documents?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2783
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
full}^ decline to ans^Yer that question.
Mr. Appell. After distribution, one copy of the document came back
to the kleagle, or organizer. What happened to the copy that came
back to you?
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, were any documents called for in
part 1 of the subpena destroyed by fire ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, on October 20, 1964, did you attend
a province meeting of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at
Laurel, Mississippi ?
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you did attend that meeting and at that meeting you
were elected to the position of a province investigator for Province
No. 1. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm it or deny it.
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer.
Mr. Appell. Other province investigators at the same time were
Jack Williams of Pelahatchie, Mississippi ; H. L. Holmes of Jackson,
Mississippi; Woody Mathews of Utica, Mississippi; and Gordon
Lackey of Greenwood, Mississippi.
Did you know those gentlemen to hold positions similar to your
own ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I forgot to ask you, Mr. Fortenberry, would you gi^'e
the committee a brief resume of your employment background?
Mr. Fortenberry. Yes, sir. Since finishing — from w^hat time, sir?
Mr. Appell. From 1960 to date.
Mr. Fortenberry. I was employed by the city of Jackson as a con-
struction inspector until February of 1965, when I went into
construction.
Mr. Appell. And who are you employed by at present?
Mr. Fortenberry. Enthalpy, Inc., out of Jackson, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, as a member of the Klan and as an
official, were you assigned to a Klavern of the Klan in Hinds County,
Mississippi ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, as an official of the province, are
you familiar with any acts of violence carried out by members of the
Klan in your province?
Mr. Fortenberry. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, a stick of dynamite was thrown into
the building or offices of Hazel Brannan Smith who publishes the
2784 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Northside Reporter. Do you possess any knowledge of this activity?
(AVitness confers with counsel.)
Mr. FoRTENBERRY. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fortenberry, was Julius Harper the Grand
Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan to your
knowledge ?
Mr. Fortenberry. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer.
Mr. Weltner. What is that name again ?
Mr. Appell. Julius Harper.
Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of this witness.
The Cpla.irman. The witness is excused. Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harold Lloyd Delk.
The CiL\iRMAx. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD LLOYD DELK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Delk.
Mr. Delk. Harold Lloyd Delk.
Mr. Appell. That is D-e-l-k?
Mr. Delk. D-e-l-k.
Mr. Appell. You are appearing here today in accordance with a
subpena served upon you on December 4, 1965, by Mr. John D. Sulli-
van, an investigator for this committee, at 219 Dixie Avenue, Hatties-
burg, Mississippi ?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will the covmsel identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law, Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, when and Avhere were you born ?
Mr. Delk. I was born in Laurel, Mississippi, on December 5, 1926.
Mr. Appell. What is your educational background ?
Mr. Delk. I graduated from the 10th grade at the Hattiesburg Higli
School. Of course, there is some misunderstanding about that thing.
We have been fighting over it for 20 years. They say the eightli, I
believe.
Then I have a certificate from the University of Mississippi in pub-
lic relations and also numerous FBI school items such as fingerprint-
ing, collection and preservation of evidence, firearms handling.
Mr. Appell. Under what circumstances and conditions did you
receive this FBI training?
Mr. Delk. As a policeman.
Mr. Appell. Were you a student of the police academy conducted bv
the F J ..
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2785
Mr. Delk. Xo, sir, it was local. Our local FBI agent from Jack-
sou — New Orleans, conducted a school in Hattiesburg.
Mr. Appell. AVlien did you take this series of instruction ?
Mr. Delk. It was over a period from 1953 through 1958, 1 guess.
Mr. Appell. Of what police force were you a member at that time ?
Mr. Delk. Hattiesburg Police Department.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background since 1960?
Mr. Delk. West Brothers Motor Express as a supervisor and Missis-
sippi Tank Company as a driver, Fowler Butane Gas Company as
transport driver.
]Mr. Appell. And that completes your
Mr. Delk. That completes it.
Mr. Appell. During the course of time, have you received com-
pensation from any other sources?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
Mr. i^jPELL. From what sources ?
Mr. Delk. A trucking business of my own.
Mr. Appell. Have you received compensation from any other
sources ?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Where?
Mr. Delk. A night patrol service in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, which
we still operate.
Mr. Appell. Would you explain to the committee what a night
patrol service is?
Mr. Delk. It is contract guard duty for individual businesses.
Mr. Appell. This is a private operation ?
Mr. Delk. A private opei'ation.
Mr. Appell. Is this your business, or are you employed by someone ?
Mr. Delk. No ; it is my own business.
Mr. Appell. Have you received income from any other sources?
Mr. Delk. No.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever receive any income from recruiting a per-
son into the "Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Delk. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke the defense of the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of
America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chaimian, I asked the witness whether he had in-
come from any other sources. He said he had none. I then asked him
whether he had any income derived from organizing men into the
'Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and he invoked constitutional
privileges. I, therefore, ask that the witness be directed to answer the
question.
Tlie Chairman. Yes. I do order and direct you to answer that ques-
tion. You made a representation voluntarily favorable to you on the
subject and then you are confronted with this and you invoke the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Delk. Would you please ask that question again ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Did you receive any income from organizing
anyone into the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
2786 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Delk. ^NTo, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you act as an organizer of the White Knights of
theKuKluxKlan?\
(Witness confers with counseL)
Mr. Delk. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. The constitution and bylaws of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan provide that an organizer, until a charter is granted,
receives personal compensation. You have never received such com-
pensation ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
clme to answer that question.
The Chairmax. Isn't that contradictory ? The question is, Did you
receive income? You might have earned it. I don't know. Did you
receive income from a Klan organization for any reason? You said
"no.'' Now you are taking a different position.
Restate that question, please.
Mr. Appell. The constitution and bylaws provide that, until a Kla-
vem is chartered, the organizer gets personal compensation. Did you
ever receive any personal compensation as provided for bj?^ the consti-
tution and bylaws ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman. I ask that the witness be directed to
answer the question.
The Chairman. I order and direct you to answer the question.
(Mr. Blackwell confers with Mr. Willis off the record.)
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Delk. Sir, I have already stated all of the compensations that
I have received, and that is all.
The Chairman. Well, is your answer that you did not receive com-
pensation, or you did not receive any money of any kind from the Klan
organizations to which you belonged? Is that what you are saying?
You are giving contradictory answers.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Delk. No. sir, that is not what I said. I have already enumer-
ated all the compensation that I have received.
The Chairman. And that is all you received ?
Mr. Delk. That is all I have received.
The Chairman. Then ask him the specific question.
Mr. Appell. Have you received any compensation in accordance
with the constitntion and bylaws of the Wliite Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, which provide that an organizer receives a given sum of
money for each person he organizes into the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
The Chairman. May I say to your counsel that the question is
whether he received compensation and money. I separated that from
whether he was an organizer.
Mr. Buckley. We appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. We didn't un-
derstand it that way.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2787
The Chairmax. Am I correct that when asked whether he was an
organizer, lie invoked the privilege of the fifth amendment?
Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I know Mr. Appell didn't intend to indicate an
answer to this question as to funds would be an admission that he w^as
an organizer.
Did you, as an individual, not as an organizer, receive any compen-
sation or funds from a Klan organization ? I say that because it could
be — I doubt that it would be, but it could be — that a Klan organization
might hire people and pay them some money, such as lawyers. That
wouldn't make a lawyer a Klansman, I hope. It is not intended that
by the double-edged question, if it was, that he is admitting member-
ship.
Did he receive any money of any kind as compensation, gift, or
donation or for work performed, from any Klan organization?
Mr. Delk. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, were you an organizer for the ^^Hiite Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan and did you in fact help organize the Forrest
County Klavern of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, we had a conversation over the telephone
with respect to making arrangements to supply you with transporta-
tion. You told me on the telephone that we had made a mistake, that
you had never been a member of any Klan organization.
Were the statement and representations made to me over the phone
truthful?
The Chairman. I wish you would think about that. You know if
it is true. Do what you w^ant to in your answer, however.
Mr. Delk. For reasons previously stated, sir, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, I hand you a document which has no identity
as to the source of its publication, but it is a document headed "Secrecy"
and it contains approximately nine paragraphs. Examine that and
answer as to whether or not you have ever seen that document or a
docmnent similar in context.
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Document marked "Harold Delk Exhibit No. 1." See committee
report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, p. 70.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, I would like to read to you, not the entire
document, but a few passages from it, and if you and your counsel
challenge the reading, I will hand it back :
Secrecy is not only a tight lip, but a tight manner. * * * Develop your own
private, substitutate [sic] names for all proper names and oflSces in the orga-
nization.
Secrecy is more than just not talking. True Secrecy is a Hardened Mental
Attitude by which an individual convinces HIMSELF that he is not a member
and that there is no such organization. Secrecy is Mental Discipline and neces-
sary for Victory. When a member is so able to discipline himself, he is not going
to accidentally make slips of tongue and manner, and until he DOES so
discipline himself he will continue to make such slips.
Is this theory of secrecy, to your knowledge, taught by any orga-
nization that you ever held membership in?
2788 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I will put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that this is a document upon which the secrecy of the
"\Aniite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is based.
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, did you attend a meeting of the White
Knights near Raleigh, Mississippi, June 23, 1964, at which time you
were elected to the position of province KBI ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affinn
or deny the fact, that on June 23, 1964, at a meeting of the White
Knig^hts of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, you were elected to the
position of province KBI ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Delk, are you presently a member of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
]VIr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Are you a member of the Tmited Klans of America,
Realm of Mississippi ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell, At the time you were a province KBI, did you know
Eddie McDaniel of Natchez, Mississippi, who is now Grand Dragon
of the Realm of Mississippi, United Klans of America, to be a province
KBI within the mite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the stall' has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The CiiAiRMAx. Mr. Delk, our investigator put to you as a fact,
under oath, that you are or were a province inxestigator, or a member
of what is called a Klan Bureau of Investigation. Was he right?
Did ho tell the truth or not ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. A moment ago Mr. Appell said that, in a telephone
conversation you had with him, you said a mistake had been made
and that you were not a member of the Klan. Now, I am simply
asking this : Did you make that statement to Mr. Appell?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman'. Were you a member of the Klan Bureau of Investi-
gation at the same time that you Avere a police officer in Hattiesburg,
Mississippi ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you have a telephone conversation with Mr.
Appell?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2789
Mr. Delk. Sir, for tlie reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you phone him in order to try to butter him
up so that you wouldn't be called here today? Now, I am asking you
these questions to test the accuracy of our investigators.
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I say to you that we have had such telephone con-
versations that have developed information to satisfy us in the belief
that people have tried to ingratiate tlieir cause with the committee
investigators.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Delk, you testified that during the years 1953 to
1958 you attended certain training courses sponsored by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation in the State of Mississippi. What was the
nature of the training given in those courses over that period of time?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Delk. The nature of these training courses was fingerprinting,
classifying fingerprinting, collection and preservation of evidence,
and just general police investigation work.
Mr. Weltner. AVas there any instruction in the use of firearms?
Mr. Delk. There were exhibitions.
Mr. Weltner. Pistol exhibitions?
Mr. Delk. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. And what would be called a submachine gun ?
Mr. Delk. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Pistols were the only weapons in w^hich the instruc-
tions were given?
Mr. Delk. Yes, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Now, what about security ? Was there any instruc-
tion in either the maintenance of internal security or instruction in
protective security as part of these FBI schools? For instance, w^ere
you given any instruction as to how a police organization might sur-
round a house where someone had barricaded himself with weapons
and how to disarm that person ?
Mr. Delk. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. What was the nature of your duties with the police
force of Hattiesburg, Mississippi ?
Mr. Delk. I was a patrolman.
Mr. Weltner. How long did you serve as such ?
Mr. Delk. Both times that I w^as a member of the Hattiesburg Po-
lice Department, I believe it would add up to 6 or 7 years. I would
have to go back in the dates.
Mr. Weltner. Well, you were given training in these weapons and
police procedures as a member of that police force, too, I suppose; were
you not?
Mr. Delk. No, sir, I am sorry to say not. They do now^, but the}'
didn't then.
Mr. Weltner. They gave you a badge and a gun ?
Mr. Delk. A badge and a gun and go get them.
Mr. Weltner. When you enrolled in those FBI schools, were you re-
quired to sign any kind of a statement concerning membership in sub-
versive organizations or organizations whose names were listed on the
Attorney General's list of subversive organizations ?
2790 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Delk. I really don't remember, but I don't think so.
Mr. Weltner. AVhen you enter the Army or the Federal service, you
have to sign a statement that includes a long list of organizations, in-
cluding the Communist Party and others ?
Mr. Delk. Yes.
Mr. Weltner. You don't recall having to sign any such statement?
Mr. Delk. No, sir, I don't recall having signed such a statement. .
Mr. Weltner. Do you recall making any representations at the
time you enrolled in those schools, other than just to state your name
and police organization with which you were affiliated ?
Mr. Delk. We were sent to these schools by our superiors. They
told us to go and where to go.
Mr. Weltner. You didn't have to swear that you would uphold and
defend the Constitution of the United States ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Delk. I did that when I was sworn in as a police officer, but
not at these schools.
Mr. Weltner. When you went into the schools, you had to make
no such representation with regard to the Government of the United
States ?
Mr, Delk. No, sir.
Mr. Weltner. Were you a member of the Ku Klux Klan when you
attended these FBI schools ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Were any other members of the Hattiesburg, Mis-
sissippi, Police Force during this period of your service, 6 or 7 years,
members of any Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Weltner. Would the operations of the private Klan Bureau
of Investigation include fingerprinting or classification of finger-
printing and collection of evidence ?
Mr. Delk. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr, Weltner, And would it involve the use of firearms, a knowl-
edge of the nomenclature and operation of firearms, the maintenance
of firearms, and tlie operation thereof?
Mr, Delk, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that qiiestion.
Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of the
witness. I do have this comment : A few weeks ago we determined
that the Federal Aviation Agency was a tenant of the Ku Klux Klan
in the State of Georgia, and I think the evidence here indicates that
the Federal Bureau of Investigation has, at least to some extent,
imparted a knowledge of procedures aiul training that can be, and
possibly has been, used not only as a part of tlie Federal Bureau
of Investigation, but also the Klan Bureau of Investigation. And
I think it might be appropriate to forward this testimony to the
FBI and to inquire as to what procedures they may now have con-
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2791
cerning the acceptance of police officers or special training courses,
with a specific suggestion tliat if they do not do that now, there
should be some statement required by every enrollee as to member-
ship or lack of membership in the Ku Klux Klan or other organ-
izations similar to those listed on the Attorney General's list of sub-
versive organizations.
I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, Weltner, and
Buchanan of the subcommittee, and also Representative Semier.)
(Whereupon, at 12: 20 p.m., Friday, January 14, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— FRIDAY, JANUARY 14, 1966
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :35 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)
(Members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and Buchanan
of the subcommittee, and also Representative Senner.)
The Chairman". The subcommittee will come to order. Mr. Appell,
call your first afternoon witness.
Mr. Appell. Edward Willard Fuller.
The Cpiairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear, sir, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Fuller. I do, sir.
'?
TESTIMONY OF EDWARD WILLARD FULLER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr, Appell. Mr. Fuller, would you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Fuller. Edward W. Fuller, sir.
Mr. Appell. "W" for Willard?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with the subpena
served upon you on November 3, 1965, by Mr. John I). Sullivan, an
investigator of this committee?
Mr. Fuller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr, Fuller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Fuller, Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reason that I honestly feel my answer may tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chahiman. Mr. Chalmers.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 30
2792 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I assume, as usual, it is stipulated that your client
is familiar with the opening statement I made at the beginning of the
hearings.
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, the subpena served upon you called for you
to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the AVhite Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated organizations, namely the Mis-
sissippi Constitutional Council, in your possession, custody or control, or main-
tained by you or available to you as present or past Exalted Cyclops and member
of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1 of the sub-
pena, Mr. Fuller, I ask you to produce the documents called for.
The Chairman. It is understood, is it not, that he is responding to
the request to produce the documents in the capacity stated in the
subpena ?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman; our same stipulation.
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to this committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in its subpena
dated October 6, 1965, for tlie reason I honestly feel that to do so
might tend to incriminate me in viola^tion of my rights guaranteed to
me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.
I respectfully decline to deliver to this committee any and all records
as requested by this committee on the subpena dated October 6, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the consid-
eration of any remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress in House Resolution 8, adopted Jan-
uary 4, 1965.
The Chairman. Mr. Fuller, in light of the stipulation made, I direct
you to produce those documents.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, paragraph 2 of the subpena called upon
you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you. in your capac-
ity as present or past member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and
the Mississippi Constitutional Council which the Constitution and Laws of
said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other
officer of said organization the same being in your possession, custody or control.
The Chairman. The same stipulation ?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, in the representative capacity set forth in
paragraph 2, 1 ask you to produce the documents called for.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to deliver to the comittee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon tlie
grounds previously stated.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2793
The Chairman, Mr. Fuller, I order and direct yon to produce the
documents.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents demanded and ordered by the committee, based upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, would you give the committee your edu-
cational background ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in vio-
lation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, and 14 of
the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, do you know Mr. John D. Sullivan, an
investigator of the committee, who sits on my right ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I ])ut it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that on August 18, 1965, that Mr. Sullivan interviewed you
in his motel room at the Holiday Inn Motel in Natchez, Mississippi.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer the question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
tlie fact, that you advised Mr. Sullivan that you had joined the T\^iite
Knights, the Sligo Unit, in September 196-i and were the exalted
Cyclops of tliat Klavern; that Joe Nosser was the assistant exalted
Cyclops; that J. L.— who I believe is referred to as "Big Mac" McKin-
ney, was the investigator ; and that you were succeeded as the exalted
Cyclops by Eobert Myers. Is the report of the interview made by
Investigator Sullivan truthful ?
Mr. Flt:.ler. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, do you know Gene C. Scott ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, Mr. Scott, while to the best of my knowl-
edge never having been a member of the Klan, made a tape recording
for a Natchez newspaper in which he identified certain residents of the
area as Klansmen. Through some method, the tape recording that he
made fell into the hands of the Klan, and 1 hand you a copy of a docu-
ment entitled "The Klan's Rebutal [sic] to the Miss Lou's Observer,'"
addressed "To All Patriotic Citizens of Adams County," signed
"United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm
of Mississippi, Adams C'ounty Units," and ask you if you are aware
of the publication of that document.
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
(Document marked "Edward Fuller Exhibit No. T" appears on p.
2794.)
Mr. Appell. Following notice that Scott had engaged in this re-
porting to a local newspaper, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you
to affirm or deny the fact, that you and James "Big Mac" McKinney,
beat Scott and threatened to kill him.
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
2794 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Edward Fuller Exhibit No. 1
T.iU CvrdL
THE KIAK'S REBUTAL TO THi: IJSS lOU'S CBSECTER
TO ALL PATRIOTIC CITIZENS OF ADAIIS COUWTY:
For soverr.l weeks now we have been resdins in the Iliss-Iou Observer of a con-
f-^ssion given to Mr. Forrest Johnson in the presence of a hir. V.'inkler by an
infomer who claijns to have been a Klonsnan, This Informer's name is ij. _^_^
Scott who is sn/ely out of toivn in Vicksburg, liss, driving a cab. '..'e would
like to inform the public that this confession was made with the intention of
bir. VJinkler selling this confession and the proceeds being divided between
Mr. Winkler and Mr. Scott. This confession was nado on Jan. 21 i 23,
1965.
The following questions were asked by 1 j, Johnson; the answers were given by
^j•. Scott;
Question: Kr. Scott, you understand that the information that you are about
to give us will bo given under Oath?
Answer: ^es, I do. (Oath was then administered)
Question: lir. Scott are you a member of the Klan?
Answer: Yes, I am.
Question: How long have you been a nember of the Klan?
Answer: About one yep.r.
Question: V7ho administered the oath of the Klan to you?
Answer: A nian by the name of ,
Question: How much does it cost to join the Klan?
Answor: ')25.CO and jlO.OO annual fee.
Question: Do you know who is the head of the ICUn here in Adams County?
Answer: I am not sure but I believe that llr, __^_^ is the one that gives the
final orders.
Question: llr. Scott could you tell us if \x. _____ is a member of the Klan?
Answer: Yes, he is a member.
Question: lir, Scott, how about lir, , is he a member of the Klan?
Answer: Veil, 1 ar. not sure, but I believe that he is. He has been seen at
the meetings on several occr.sions.
Question: ij:. Scott, do you know if Ij, is a member of the Klan?
Answer: Yes, he is.
Statement: I am going to call some n£nes and I want you to tell me if they
are members of the Klan, ____ ^___ ___^ .
Question: Are these men members of the IG.an?
Answer: Yes, they are.
Our follow citizens, we would like to inform you that 1 jr. ____ Scott was not a
member of the Klan one year prior to Jan. 21, 1965, neither is he a member of
the Klan now, nor will he ever become a member of the IClan .
let us go further with this so called confession;
Question: Ij*. Scott, do you know anything about the negro that was killed
out in the Kingston r.rea?
Answer: Yes, I do. Xhere were four of us in the car, lyself, , and two
men from out of town whom I did not know, V/e all had pistols. We
went to the Kingston area to talk to this negro. Vftien wo found him
ho started running and one of tho mon from out of town shot him.
Question: Vet. Scott, when did you know that he was dead?
Answer: l/hen I read it in the paper.
Our fellow citizens, have any of you read about a negro being killed in the
Kingston area by unknown assailants in the past year? (V/e haven't read about it,)
lat us continue into this so called confession:
Question: Ijr. Scott, do you know anything about the shooting of the sign at
Dumas Ibtel? .
Answer: Yes, I do.
Question: l.'ho shot it?
Answer: There were three of us in the car that night, lireelf, & .
Question: ilr, Scott, do you know about the beatings that took place here in
the Natchez area?
Answor: Yes, I do.
Question: Can you tell us who done this?
Answer: Yes, it was usually four of us. hfrself, , U . Or it
was sometimes dono by ^___ & ,
Question: I-j, Scott, du you :a-ow in^'t: J n^; aorui. f.ic bomoing oZ the Mayors
ho;M and the nsgro i.'ashingtor..
Answer; Yjs, 1 Jo.
"ow, IT. Johnson and 'i-. '.;ink:e.-, you have bcasted of yo-T con'tsf^ioi. Von now
JVEV3 t-ro^alt-rnitiTes, (l) ycu cm retract ; ou)- s:an<-.ercus rer-/ir::s -bo-.t tlio
.am. yi, you can giv3 to t:)e puLlic this so-calJ^ confession o.- we will cx-
pcso it fc- /Pu by ha/-r.^ a pubUc meeting; -.nd plijiifc tlie urtire racorjrng.
We expect a ruply within iwo wejks.
SIOtSDr
UlsTTUD ul/.ivS OF K;3.aCn,I.NC.
:3ii3i.T3 c.~ Ti;^ X!i i;a:x ii\i;
.c'-'al: OF ;.nsoTs.;-'i?T
ADAi-B CCLiCTi oi-a?S
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2795
Mr. Appell. Do you know Karl T. Deen of Natchez, Mississippi ?
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the orounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Ai'PELL. Mr. Fuller, Karl Deen was trying to collect some money
owed liim by a friend. In trying to run this man down for the pur-
pose of collecting the money, he trailed him to your residence, where
a Klan meeting was being held. He parked his car in order to wait for
his friend to get out and he was observed by you and Big Mac McKin-
ney, and you threatened the man and fired shots at his automobile. I
put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny the fact.
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that at a later time in order to do a favor for your friend,
Donnie Clark, who did not want to repay tlie money owed, that you
stopped by Karl Deen's home, you and Big Mac McKinney, for the
purpose of taking him out and beating him.
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, do you know a Negro by the name of Eich-
ard Joe Butler?
Mr. Fuller. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, were you arrested under a warrant which
charged you with willfully, unlaw^fully, and feloniously making an
assault or assault and battery upon one Richard Joe Butler, a human
being, with a deadly weapon, that is, a shotgun, with the intent of him,
the said Edward Fuller, to feloniously kill or murder the said Richard
Joe Butler?
Mr. Fi'LLER. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, the constitution of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan sets forth in Section 10 [Article V] :
The membership of the Klan shall be composed of Christian men who meet
the requirements heretofore stated and who are Twenty-One Years of Age, or
older, sound of mind, sober in habits, of good moral character and not guilty of
rai^e, murder, or treason. (Gordon Lockey Exhibit No. 2.)
Are you familiar with that provision ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, were you arrested on May 17, 1947, in an
investigation for rape?
Mr. Chalmers. May I approach the bench, please, sir?
The Chairman. Yes.
Answer the question.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer the question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, were you arrested on the following date for
the following offenses: 10/24/47, fighting and disorderly?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer
Mr. Appell. I am going to list them all.
Mr. Fuller. Excuse me.
2796 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. 4/30/48, dnmk; 9/5/48, drunk; 5/18/55, speeding;
2/27/56, Ccarrying concealed weapons; 6/30/56, drunk; 7/27/58, fight-
ing and disorderly; 8/12/58, fighting and disorderly; 2/15/64, reck-
less driving.
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, are you currently a member of the United
Klans of America ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did the United Klans of America, when they per-
mitted you to transfer from the White Knights of the Ku Kkix Klan
know of your criminal background ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, in addition to the items that I have read
to you, were you involved in other acts of violence which you carried
out as a member of either the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi or the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Fuller, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Can you tell the committee who bombed the home of
Mayor Nosser of Natchez ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Do you know James Ford Scale ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Have you ever assisted James Ford Seale in carrying
out an act of violence in behalf of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan or the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question uj^on the
grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, is your profession that of a gambler^
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon tlie grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. The club in Avhich you are now employed in
Louisiana
The CiiAiR:srAX. Ask that question again.
Mr. Appell. Is the club in wliich you are presently employed in
Louisiana one in which you operate as a gambler?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully
The Chairmax. One in Avhich you operate as -what?
Mr. Appell. Gambler.
The Chairmax. What part of Louisiana ?
Mr. Appell. Ferriday.
The Chairmax. Ferriday is right across the river in Louisiana
from the Mississippi line: isn't that correct, Mr. Fuller?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
grounds previously stated, sir.
The Chairmax.^ I say that it is. Go on.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2797
Mr. Appell. The place in which you operate your gambling is at
"Blackie" Drane's.
Mr. FuLi^R. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Fuller, are you associated while a member of the
United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, in the opera-
tion of houses of prostitution ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainiian, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairman. Mr. Fuller, it is our information that in some way
you transferred your membership from the "White Ivnights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi to the Ignited Klans of America under the
titular head of Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton. Is that information
correct ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the gromids previously stated, sir.
Mr. Pool. I just have an observation, Mr. Chairman. It looks like
the United Klans of America are not much more selective than the
'\'\niite Knights.
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Fuller, evidence would indicate you were
first a member of the White Knights and then were accepted into the
membership of the United Klans. Would you consider yourself a
typical member of the White Knights and of the United Klan
membership ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Buchanan. Are you a member in good standing of either of
1 hese organizations ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Fuller, do you possess a Federal gambling tax
stamp ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir,
Mr. Senner. Do you have slot machines on this establishment de-
scribed by Mr. Appell ?
Mr. Fuller. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Senner. Do you have any other gambling devices in that
establishment?
Mr. FuLi^R. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated, sir.
Mr. Senner. An observation. You have been busy, Mr. Fuller. No
more questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. James Kenneth Greer.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
2798 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES KENNETH GREER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCXLEY
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Greer. James Kenneth Greer.
Mr. Appell. You are appearing here in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on November 3, 1965, by John D. Sullivan,
an investigator of this committee at the International Paper Com-
pany, Natchez, Mississippi ?
Mr. Greer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. You are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Greer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record ?
Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law. Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Greer. December 30, 1932, Natchez, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. What is your educational background ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greer. I went to school to the 11th grade at Ruth, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Have you completed your educational background ^
Mr. Greer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. 'Wliat is your employment background ?
Mr. Greer. Since what time?
Mr. Appell. Since 1960.
Mr. Greer. I have been an employee of International Paper Com-
pany of Natchez, Mississippi.
The Chairman. A little louder.
Mr. Greer. I have been an employee of the International Paper
Company, Natchez, Mississippi, since that time.
Mr. Appell. Have you received income from any other sources?
Mr. Greer. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Have you ever received any income from the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greer. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, do you hold the position of a province
giant, Province No. 9, of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi ?
Mr. Greer. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the oth, 1st,
and 14th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of
America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, were you ever arrested along with other
individuals for an assaidt
The Chairman. Mr. Greer, are you familiar with the constitution or
bylaws of the organization known as the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi, outlining requisites for membership that
a man must be sober, of good moral character, and so on ? Are you
familiar with that provision?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2799
Mr. Gkeer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman". Go on now.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, were you ever arrested for an assault upon
civil rights workers in Mississippi ?
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
clme to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege in his refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the
results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Greer.
Mr. Greer was arrested by the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol
on October 22, 1964, under a bench warrant which charged Mr. Greer,
Ernest Henry Avants, and Myron Wayne "Jack" Seale with assault
and battery with the intent to kill and murder. The charge was
placed following an investigation and an attack on two civil rights
workers on October 31 and again on November 2, 1963. The three
denied the charges, and the charges against them were dismissed when
the civil riglits workers failed to return to Mississippi for the trial.
Mr. Pool. Is that October 31, 1963, or 1964 ?
Mr. Appell. 1963 was the assault, 1964 was the arrest.
While under arrest, James Kenneth Greer admitted that he had
joined a Klan organization, which he described as the National
Knights, in late 1963. Committee investigation establishes this Klan
to be the Mississippi Kealm of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, then under leadership of J. D. Swenson and Royal V. Young,
which might then have been a part of a Klan association known as the
National Knights. In December 1963, Greer stated that a group from
this Klan started the formation of a new Klan which became a fonnal
organization in February 1964 under the name of the Wliite Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. Greer identified individuals
whom he knew, as of November 1964, to be present or past members of
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and also iden-
tified some who affiliated wdth the United Klans of America after leav-
ing the White Knights. In addition to his admissions, committee in-
vestigation established that Greer held the position within the "Wliite
Knights of province giant of Province No. 9. Greer attended the
original meetings of the White Knights, which established the White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund in January 1965.
On March 23, 1965, at a state meeting of the AVhite Knights at Jack-
son, Mississippi, Dewitt Sandifer turned over to Imperial Wizard
Bowers approximately $2,500 with Bowers giving James Kenneth
Greer $700 to $900 for legal expenses. This information, Mr. Chair-
man, indicates that Mr. Greer possesses additional information which
is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid
the Congress in enacting remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Greer, you have heard the sworn statement of
the committee's investigator and you now have the opportunity to
reply to any portion of that statement, confirm or challenge the
accuracy of the information, or to explain any part of it. In addition,
you may, if you desire, offer any other matter tlie committee may deem
relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to avail yourself of this
opportunity ?
2800 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairmax. Mr. Greer, I must inform you, therefore, that with-
out your rebuttal or contrary facts that may come to the attention of
the committee, this committee will rely on the accuracy of its investiga-
tion.
Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say ?
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, I put it to you as a fact that the following
statement was made by you to investigators of the Mississippi High-
way Safety Patrol and in the presence of agents of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation :
James Kenneth Greer, Route 4, Box 101, ^enwick, Mississippi, was interviewed
while in custody of the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol. * * * Greer advised
that he desired to furnish information pertaining to the organization and mem-
bers of the various Ku Klux Klan (KKK) groups operating in Adams County,
Mississippi.
Greer stated that to his knowledge there are three organizations presently
operating in Adams County : one organization being the White Knights of the
KKK of Mississippi, of which he is an active member, the United KKK, and the
National KKK. Greer stated that in about June of 1964 the Mississippi KKK
was broken into three different Klavems within Adams County set up basically
in the form of districts as to residence. He advised that in June of 1964 Ernest
Henry Avants, who was a member of the Mississippi KKK and an active member
of the Americans for the Preservation of the Wliite Race (APWR), took it upon
himself to start a feud within the various Klaverns of the Mississippi KKK.
He stated that at that time Avants was dissatisfied inasmuch as certain members
of the organization were failing to pay dues and were creating an ill feeling
among other members of the KKK, became intoxicated one night and at about
3 a.m. in the morning went to the Klavern headquarters located on Morgantown
Road, Natchez, Mississippi, and shot the lock off the Klavern headquarters door
with a .44 pistol and sprayed numerous bullets throughout the headquarters.
He stated that this extremely upset the Klavern and that some of the members
of the Mississippi Klan left this Klavern and joined the United KKK which is
under the leadership in Natchez of Ed McDaniel.
He stated that the following individuals were dissatisfied, and were dissatis-
fied because the Mississippi KKK did not advocate forms of violence and as
such, joined the United KKK. Greer states that these individuals advocate
violence and are extremely strong segregationists. Ernest Finley, F-i-n-1-e-y ;
Frank S. Gaston, G-a-s-t-o-n ; Charles L. James, J-a-m-e-s ; Jeff Luke. L-u-k-e ;
Cecil Roberts, R-o-b-e-r-t-s ; Paul L. Foster, F-o-s-t-e-r ; Nelson Ilaney, H-a-n-e-y ;
Tommy L. Jones, J-o-n-e-s ; Ed McDaniel, M-c-D-a-n-i-e-1 ; Myron Wayne Seale,
S-e-a-1-e.
He stated that he believes the United Klan Klavern in Adams County consists
of less than 100 members ; however, the only known active members in the
Klavern to him are those mentioned above. Greer stated that he was one of the
original members of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi which
commenced organizing in about December 196.3, in Adams County. He stated
that at this time possibly numerous members of his organization were former
members of the National KKK of Louisiana and that a large group decided to
withdraw from the national group and form their own organization within the
State of Mississippi. He stated that in February of 1964 the KKK of Mississippi
was drawn up and recruiting commenced. He stated that it was established
that there would be three Klaverns within Adams County and one exalted cyelops
and nine oflBcers would be appointed for each Klavern. He stated that due to the
action of Avants in shooting up the Klavern headquarters, he stated that he
believes that at the present time there are only two active Klaverns remaining
in Adams County and that the membership is less than 100 persons and that
their meetings are no longer held in any one location, but at the homes of various
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2801
individual members. He stated that at the time Avauts shot up the Klavern
headquarters the group was meeting at a block house on Morgantown Road in
Xatchez. However, to his knowledge, the Klavern has not met at this head-
quarters since that time. He stated that this property on which the Klavern
headquarters was located was either leased or owned by Nelson Haney.
Greer advised that the following individuals are either present or former
members of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi :
John William Barber, active member. J. W. Birchfield, former member, but
left Klan when he obtained position as constable. .John Bostick, active mem-
ber. (First names unknown) Britt, two brothers who were active members at
one time, but both believed inactive at present time. Douglas Byrd, active mem-
ber. "Peanut" [last name] Carnell, former active member who now may be
member of the United Klan. J. D. Crawford, former member who left or-
ganization shortly after joining to take constable position. (First name unknown)
DeMarco. active member. Claude Fuller, active member. Ed Fuller, active
member. M. L.. House, active member. James L. McKinney, active member.
Henry L. Moore, active member. However, due to his employment, has never
been able to attend any of the KKK meetings. (First name unknown) Murray,
former member who is no longer member due to his employment as a member
of the Natchez Police Department. Ernest B. Parker, former member and no
longer active. However, may be a member of the United Klan as he is a close
associate of Myron Wayne Scale.
(At this point Mr. Weltner entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Appell. [Continues reading:]
Joe Peoples, former member who may be associated with the United Klan. J. R.
Rankin, former member, no longer aflSliated, who is a deputy sheriff, Adams
County. Willie Stroud, former member who left membership due to his posi-
tion on the Natchez Police Department. T. L. Torgersen, former member, who
may have associated himself with the United Klan. J. G. Wisner. Billy L.
Wood, may presently be an active member.
Greer stated that both the sons of Mayor John Nosser were former members
of the Mississippi KKK ; however, he has no knowledg'e of Mayor Nosser ever
associating with this Klan.
Mr. Greer, I have read you the statement of the interview with you
by the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol in the presence of the
agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and I ask you to affirm
or deny the fact that this is the interview that you gave.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
•line to answer that question.
The Chairman. I wish to state and acknowledge that the Mississippi
Highway Safety Patrol under the leadership and command of Colonel
Birdsong has clone an excellent job in coping with Klan activities
in the great State of Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Greer, clo you know from your own personal
knowledge that the Klavern of the United Klans of America in
Natciiez, Mississippi, is known and operates under the name of the
Adams County Civic & Betterment Association?
Mr. (treer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appeix. Paul Foster, whom you identified in your interview
as having broken with the White Knights and gone over to the UKA,
as you put it, because the AVhite Knights was not violent enough, do
you know him to be the first grand chaplain of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi?
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
2802 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. The province of which you were the province giant —
and under the White Knights constitution there are two province
officers, tlie province giant and the province KBI — I put it to you as
a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that serving with you
on the province level was E. L. McDaniel, the now Grand Dragon of
the United Khms of America, Reahn of Mississi))pi, and one of the
founders of the White Knights of the Ku Khix Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Greer. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Gerald "Wliitehead.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear, sir, to tell the the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Whitehead, I do.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIE GERALD WHITEHEAD, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitehead, state your full name for the record.
Mr. Whitehead. Willie Gerald Whitehead.
Mr. Appell. W-i-1-l-i-e, and the last name, W-h-i-t-e-h-e-a-d?
Mr. Whitehead. Right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitehead, are you appearing here today in ac-
cordance with the subpena served upon you on December 23, 1965, by
John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this committee at 207 Janet
Street, Crystal Springs, Mississippi 'i
Mr. Whitehead. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mv. "Wliitehead, are you represented by counsel?
Mr. Whitehead. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themsehes for the record ^
Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law, Laurel,
Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitehead, when and where were vou born i
Mr. Wihtehead. Meridian, Mississippi, July 8, 193.1:.
Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your educational
background.
Mr. Whitehead. I finished high school in 1953. That's it.
Mr. Appell. Did you have a period of military service in either the
United States or the State of Mississippi ?
Mr. Whitehead. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. What was your ])eriod of ni il itary service ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Appell. I see you are having difficulty. Was it between De-
cember 1951 and September 1954 ?
Mr. Whitehead. It Avas })efore *53. I was in the National (xuard.
Mr. Appell. I say from the period December 1951, with an honor-
able discharge in September 1954, because of your inability to attend
drills?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2803
Mr. Whitehead. Yes, sir.
i\Ir. Appell. AVoiikl you give the committee your employment back-
ground from 1960?
Mr. AYhitehead. I was a wholesale milk route salesman until June
of last year and I became an insurance agent.
Mr. Pool. Life insurance or casualty?
Mr. Whitehkvd. Both.
Mr. Appell. Are you currently selling insurance?
Mr. Whitehead. No, sir, not any more.
Mr. Appell, What are you presently doing?
Mr. Whitehead. Working with a drilling rig.
The Chairmax. Offshore Louisiana?
Mr. Whitehead. Right.
Mr. Appell. What parish of Louisiana?
Mr. Whitehead. Out of Leesville.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wiitehead, have you held a position within the
Wiite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan as province giant of Province
No. 1?
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the i^rivileges guaranteed to me by the 5th,
1st, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of
America.
Mr. Appell. Is the Klavern of the White Knights to which you are
affiliated, the Copiah Rod and Gun Club ?
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
hiWj decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that the Klavern of which you were a members does operate
under the cover name of the Copiah Rod and Gun Club.
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Another officer— the other province officer at the
time
The Chairman. Before you ask that question — Mr. "Wliitehead, I
want to ask you a simple question. The answer is in your conscience,
and you can speak the truth before this committee. Are you now a
member of a Klan organization?
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitehead, at the time you were the province giant
of Province 1, was H. L. Holmes, Jr., of Jackson, the province KBI?
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
- Mr. Appell. Julius Harper was the Grand Dragon of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. I put it to you as a
fact, and ask you to confirm or deny the fact, that he was a member of
your Klavern.
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer the question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. AYhitehead, what Klaverns of the White Knights
existed under the province of which you were the province giant?
2804 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Whitehead. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, 1 respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Charles ]Marcus Edwards.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
while truth, and nothing but the truth, .<o help you God ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES MARCUS EDWARDS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES J. MAY III AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, would you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Edwards. Charles Marcus Edwards.
Mr. Appell. That is "E-d-w-a-r-d" with an "s" on the end ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you apeparing here today in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on November 8, 1965 ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record?
Mr. May. Charles J. May III, attorney at law. Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs,
Mississippi.
Mr. Ajppell. Mr. Edwards, when and where were you born?
Mr. Edwards. July 17, '33, Franklin County.
Mr. Appell. The city of your birth would be Meadville ?
Mr. Edw^ards. I am not sure, sir.
Mr. Appell. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Edwards. Route 2, Meadville, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, would you give the committee a brief
resume of your educational background ?
Mr. Edwards. I finished the 11th grade at Meadville, Mississippi.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background since 1060?
Mr. Edwards. I have been employed by International Paper Com-
pany, sir.
The Chairman. Of where?
Mr. Edwards. Natchez, Mississippi, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, in Julv of 1964, were you a member of
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
and invoke as a defense the i)rivi]eges guaranteed to me by the oth.
1st, and Uth amendments to the Constitution of the rnited\States of
America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, did vou know two Negroes named
Charles Moore and Henry Dee ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons ])revi()nslv slated, 1 respectfully
decline to answer that question.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2805
Mr. Appell. Mr. Echvards, I would like to read to you a clipping
from the McComb, Mississippi, Enterprise- Journal of July 14, 1964.
The search for three missing Mississippi civil rights workers seems to have
turued up two previously unsuspected slayings and a new mystery for officers.
Two bodies— the lower halves each — were found in a sluggish offshoot of the
Mississippi River about 17 miles south of here.
They were tentatively identified as the remains of two Negro youths from
Meadville, a small town near Natchez.
Sheriff Ralph Hutto at Meadville said today neither youth was known to be
involved in civil rights work or any other controversial issue.
SEEN TOGETHER
The last time they were seen around Meadville was May 2, he added. They
were together at the time. He said the families reported they later heard the
youths were at Hammond, La., and Monroe, La.
State, federal and county officers riding in flatbottom aluminum boats, con-
tinued their search of the "Old River" loop of the Mississippi.
The bodies were at a Jackson, Miss., laboratory. Authorities declined all com-
ment on the results of pathology reports or other investigation.
The first body, found Sunday, was tentatively identified as that of Charles
Moore, 20, a former student at Alcorn A&M College at Lorman. Miss.
SECOND IDENTIFIED
Dr. J. D. Boyd, college president, said he recalled Moore as a well-behaved
freshman. He said he didn't know whether Moore was among students expelled
last spring for civil rights work.
The second body, found yesterday, was believed to be that of Henry Dees.
Madison Parish Sheriff W. M. Seaman discovered the second body on the Mis-
sissippi side of the sluggish stream, once the main channel of the Mississippi but
now a —
I can't read the word — "'with little current except during high wa-
ter.''
Mr. Edwards, do you know anything about the Charles Moore and
Henry Dee matter?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Charles EdAvards Exhibit No. 1." Not repro-
ducible; retained in committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Were you arrested on an affidavit which charged that
you did willfully, unlawfully, and feloniously and with malice afore-
thought kill one Charles Moore, a human being, without authority of
law, and the second warrant charging the same thing with respect to
Henry Dee ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, did you make a statement to the Mis-
sissippi Highway Patrol when you were arrested?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
line to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, I shall read to you from a Mississippi
Highway Patrol report which reads as follows :
Charles Marcus Edwards was arrested at -j :25 A.M., November 6, 1964 at
his residence. Route 2. Meadville, Mississippi (Bunkley Community) by MHSP
[iMississippi Highway Safety Patrol] Investigators * * * with FBI Agents * * *.
Edwards answered his front door in response to a knock * * *, leaving the
screen door locked. Mr. Cole, [an investigator for the Mississippi Highway
Patrol], identified the officers and told I*]dwards he wanted to talk with liim at
which time, Edwards asked Cole if he had a warrant for his arrest. Cole replied
2806 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
that he did have a warrant charging him with murder and instructed Edwards
to open the door which he did.
Ewards was informed by Investigator Cole that he had a right to an attorney
and that he had a right not to make any statement and that any statement he
made might be used against him in a court of law. No threats, promises or
offers of reward were made to Edwards by any of the oflBcers.
The report tells about taking you then to headquarters at Jackson,
Mississippi, where an interview commenced at 7 :15 a.m.
Tlie report reads :
He admitted being acquainted with Henry Dee, a Negro whom he stated formerly
lived in the same general area where Edwards resided. He initially denied
knowing anyone identifiable with Charles Moore.
I will skip :
At 9 :07 A.M. Edwards volunteered that he had to move from his former
address to his present location several months ago because his wife was afraid
of Negroes who parked in front of their home at night. He stated that Dee was
one of these Negroes and that his wife had complained that she had seen Dee
on one occasion "Peeping" at her. Edwards stated that at about this time he
went with James Seale and some others and picked up Dee and another Negro
male at Meadville. He claimed the name and identity of this other Negro was
unknown to him, stating that their intention was to whip the two men. Ed-
wards stated they took the two men to some woods and whipped them and that
the two Negroes were still alive when he left. He stated he did not know what
happened to them and declined to identify the others present.
Mr. Edwards, did you make the statement I read to you to members
of the Mississippi Highway Patrol and to agents of the FBI?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Was your statement to them that these two Negroes
were alive when you left them true or false ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Who were the other members of the party who, along
with you and, as you stated, James Seale, took the Negroes into the
field ? Who were they, sir ? AVlio were the others ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Edwards, at the time you related that you picked
these two boys up and took them into a field to whip them, were you a
member of a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Were the others who were in the party that you des-
cribe members of a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Are you today a member of a Ku Klux Klan organi-
zation?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. I have no further questions to ask this witness.
The CiiAiRMAx. Mr. p]d wards — I will come right down to it — did
the alleged Peeping Tom incident — was the alleged Peeping Tom inci-
dent ever reported to the police? I didn't say with reference to
Henry Dee.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2807
Mr. Edavards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Now, with reference to Charles Moore, thus far
anyway, according to the news accounts, the sheriff said that he was a
well-behaved boy apparently, young man, and never involved in any
civil rights incident or much less in any Peeping Tom activity. Under
w^hat circumstances did you pick up those two young men ?
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Pool. Did you voluntarily make the statement to the Mississippi
Highway Patrol that Mr. Appell read a moment ago, or was your
statement made under any kind of duress or force or intimidation?
This is your chance to speak up, if you want to, about that.
Mr. Edwards. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Sexner. As I understand from the investigation, these Negro
boys' bodies were attached to a jeep engine and throw^n into the river.
In view of the oath that the Klansman takes, treason, rape, and
malicious murder excepted, in your opinion would this be malicious
murder that would permit you to tell about the Klan activities ?
Mr. Edw^a.rds. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Edwards. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Call your next Avitness.
Mr. Appell. James Ford Seale.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. James Seale. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES FORD SEALE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.
Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, please.
Mr. James Seale. James Ford Seale.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a
subpena served upon you on October 30, 1965, by John D. Sullivan,
an investigator of this committee, at a UKA rally in Natchez, Missis-
sippi, in Liberty Park?
Mr. James Seale. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. When was that (
Mr. Appell. October 30, 1965.
Are you represented by counsel (
Mr. James Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Chalmers. I am Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law,
Koom 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, when and where were you born?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I lionestly feel my ansAver might tend to in-
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 31
2808 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
criminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the
amendments 5, 1, and 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.
Mr. AppELL. Mr. Seale — and let me ask you the proper spelling of
your last name. Is it S-e-a-1-e?
Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you acquainted with the witness that just left the
stand, Charles Marcus Edwards?
Mr. James Seale. I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, are you acquainted with the late Charles
Moore and Henry Dee?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, on July 14, 1964, were you a member of
the ^Vliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the groimds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Are you presently a member of the United Klans of
America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and a member of the Realm
of Mississippi, which also is known as the Mississippi Rescue Service?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appei^. Mr. Seale, were you in the hearing room and did you
liear me read to Charles Marcus Edwards a statement which he made
about the bodies of — about you and he picking up Charles Moore and
Henry Dee and taking them into a field to whip them ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully
The Chairman. Now, wait a minute.
Mr. Seale, were you in this hearing room when Mr. Charles Marcus
Edwards testified ?
Mr. Chalmers. I will stipulate that he was, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Now, you ask him if he heard the statement.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, did you hear the statement which I read to
Mr. Edwards which was an admission on his part made to agents of
the Mississippi PTigliway Patrol and Federal Bureau of Investigation
on November 6, 1964 ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Without repeating the whole thing, Mr. Seale, I will
read you one paragraph of what I read previously so that you will
clearly understand it.
Charles Marcus Edwards is the Edwards referred to herein by his
last name.
"Edwards volunteered that he had to move from his former address
to"
The Chairihan. Louder.
Mr. Appell. I am sorry. [Continues reading:]
Edwards volunteered that he had to move from his former address to his present
location several months ago l)eeause his wife was afraid of Negroes who parked
in front of their home at night. He stated that Dee was one of these Negroes and
that his wife had complained that she had seen Dee on one occasion "Peeping"
at her. Edwards stated that at about this time he went with James Seale and
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2809
some others and picked up Dee and another Negro male at Meadville. He claimed
the name and identity of this other Negro was unknown to him, stating that their
intention was to whip the two men. Edwards stated they took the two men to
some woods and whippet! them and that the two Negroes were still alive when he
left. He stated he did not know what happened to them and declined to identify
the others present.
I fisk you if the statement o^iA^en to the Mississippi Highway Patrol
by Charles Marcus Edwards is true?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Cir AIRMAN. Did Charles Marcus Edwards tell you that his wife
had made that statement?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did you and Mr. Edwards at the time discuss the
so-called Peeping Tom incident ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did Edwards at any time tell you that his wife
had made that statement and that he believed it, or, on the other hand,
did he tell you that that was to be the basis of your and his defense ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully
The Chairman. That he fabricated the story ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairivian. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, in picking up the boys, Moore and Dee, did
you come upon them in a pickup truck and advise the two that you
were deputy sheriffs and they were wanted for questioning?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the groimds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge of what happened to Moore
and Dee after they were whipped in this field as described by Mr. Ed-
wards ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, I ask you if you in fact assisted in picking
up Moore and Dee and taking them into the field and there assisted
in wliipping them ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Will you identify to the committee the others involved ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, after the torsos were found floating on the
river, Navy divers discovered that the bodies apparently had been tied
in chain, the chain hooked to the motor from a jeep, a motor block from
a jeep. Do you possess any knowledge of this act happening?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Do you know Alton Alford ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
2810 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. I read to you a paragraph from an investigative report :
"James Seale beat up a man"
The Chairman. You are reading from what?
Mr. Appell. A committee investigative report.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell [reading:]
James Seale beat up a man named Alton Alford who lives between Biinkley
and Meadville. Alford states he was taken out of his house and whipped. Later
he tried to shoot Seale [with his shotgun] but his shotgun did not go off. Seale
is supposed to have taken the shotgun and beaten Alford with it. putting him in
the hospital.
Is that factual, Mr. Seale?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Air. Seale, have you recently signed an affidavit against
Charles Snodgrass and Rex Armistead of the Mississippi Highway
Patrol charging them with false arrest ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Is there a basis to your charge ?
Mr. James Seale. I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The (^HAiRMAx. Do you mean false arrest
Mr. Appell. These are officers of the Mississippi Highway Patrol.
I do not know the circumstances. I was going to ask him what the
circumstances were.
Mr. Seale, were you counseled to file this charge of false arrest
against the two officers of the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol by
members of the United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, the Realm of Mississippi ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Did you know a man by the name of Earl Hodges?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, the committee's investigation establishes
that Mr. Earl Hodges had been a member of the Klan, had fallen out
with a man by the name of Clyde Seale, and that on August 16, 1965,
his body was found. The man was dead. It appeared that the man
had been severely beaten and, in attempting to reach a place of water
to wash off his wounds, he had died, not from the beating, but from a
heart attack.
Did you participate in the beating of Earl Hodges?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. For all practical purposes, prior to his death, you were
neighbors; is that a fact?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to af-
firm or deny the fact, that at the time you took Moore and Dee into the
field to whip them, that you were a niember of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2811
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, the others in the group, including Charles Marcus Edwards,
whose identities are unknown but that they, like yourself, were mem-
bei-s of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, the United Klans of America in all of its
literature and all of the speeches that are made about it and its mem-
bership relate to nonviolence. Do you believe this?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm
or deny the fact, that from prior to the time that Moore and Dee were
picked up to take into the field to whip, continuously through today,
you are a member of the Ku Klux Klan, first with the "V^Hiite Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan and currently with the United Klans of America.
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. In connection with your becoming a member of the
White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and then of the United Klans of
America, did anyone interview you to determine background, sobriety,
Christianity, and your possible involvement in the Heniy Dee and
Charles Moore and Hodges matter?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Has any action been taken against you by either
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or the United Klans of
America to expel you from either or both of those organizations?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Do you know Mr. Sam Bowers ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Did you ever attend a meeting when he spoke ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respeictfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Do you know Mr. Robert Shelton ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you ever seen him ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you ever heard him speak ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. Have you ever attended a meeting of any Klan
organization at any time in your life
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully-
The Chairman. Wait a minute — at which meeting or meetings the
alleged noble objectives of the Klans, including their alleged attach-
2812 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
ment to democracy, to defense of coimtry, and to Christianity, were
discussed ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Senner. Is Clyde Seale your father ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. In fact, the beatings would not be carried out by the Klaii
if only one man were designated to do the job ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. Do they have their courage bolstered by going in greater
niunbers to do a job than the number of intended victims?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Pool. They are very brave when they have a mob, when they
have more people on their side than they are going to beat. Is that
right ?
Mr. James Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Appell. Clyde Seale.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear, sir, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CLYDE WAYNE SEALE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
CHARLES J. MAY III AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, give your full name for the record.
Mr. Clyde Seale. Clyde Wayne Seale.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, you are here today in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on November 2, 1965, by J . D. Sullivan, a member
of the investigative staff of this committee at Middle Ford Creek-
Bridge on Highway 84, west of Meadville ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record?
Mr. May. Charles J. May III, attorney at law, Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Sprmgs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. I was born in Meadville, Mississippi, the 11th dav
of October 1901.
Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background?
Mr. Clyde Seale. I went to the ninth grade in a country school in
Franklin County.
Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your employment
since 1960.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2813
Mr. Clyde Seale. Farmer.
Mr. Appell. Is that the only employment you have had since 1960^
Mr. Clyde Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, during the years 1964—65 were you the
exalted cvclo]is of Franklin County Klavern of the "Wliite Knio;hts of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the
5th, 1st, 4th, and 14th amendment to the Constitution of the United
States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, are you presently a member of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respec-
tively decline to answer this question,
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainnan, in view of the witness' claimed privilege
and his consistent refusal to answer the questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Seale.
In 1964 and '65 he w^as the exalted cyclops of Franklin County
Klavern of the White Knights. In White Knights structure a Klaven
can be and is broken into units depending upon the size of the Klavern
membership. Clyde Seale was the exalted cyclops of Unit No. 2 cover-
ing the Meadville-Bunkley Community. In 1965 Clyde Seale was the
province giant of Province No. 1, to which office he was elected on
October 9, 1964, replacing Gerald Whitehead. On March 7, 1965,
Clyde Seale attended a State meeting of the White Knights, where
province officers made reports. He reported that a collection jar of
the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund had been
placed in the Crossroads Grocery in Franklin County and, of $12 in
the jar, Negroes had put in half.
At an officers' meeting on June 27, 1964, held near Greenwood, Mis-
sissippi, Clyde Seale requested $74 as reimbursement for expenses
incurred.
On August 22, 1965, he attended an officers' meeting of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi at Florence, Mississippi.
At one point of this meeting a jet flew over the area and Imperial
Wizard Bowers ordered his men under trees because, he claimed,
the FBI cameras could photograph a page of the Bible at 40,000
feet.
Mr. Chairman, this information indicates that Mr. Seale possesses
additional information which is both pertment and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Seale, you have heard the sworn statement
of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to
reply to any portion of that statement you wish to, confirm or chal-
lenge the accuracy of the information, or to explain any part of that
statement. And "yo^^ m^^y, if .YO^i desire, offer any matter the com-
mittee may deem relevant to tliis inquiry. Do you care to avail your-
self of this offer?
Mr. Clyde Seale. No, sir.
The Chairman. I must then inform you, Mr. Seale, unless other
facts may come to the attention of the committee, this committee wnll
2814 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
rely on the accuracy of its investigation. Bearing this in mind, have
you anything to say ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, do you possess any knowledge of Charles
Moore and Henry Dee ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reason I previously stated, I
respectfully decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, did you know Earl Hodges ?
The Chairman. Wait a second.
Mr. Seale, do you know Charles Marcus Edwards ?
yir. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. Did Charles Marcus Edwards or his wife ever
tell vou that Henrj' Dee had been, in popular parlance, a Peeping
Tom'?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reasons, I respectfully decline
to answer this question.
The Chairman. Was the Henry Dee and Charles Moore incident
every discussed with you by anyone ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reasons I respectfully decline
to answer this question.
The Chairman. Did that subject ever come up and was it discussed
at any Klan meeting that you attended ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reason stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, did you ever have an argument with Earl
Hodges ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reason stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Was Earl Hodges a member of the same Klavem
of which you were the exalted cyclops during the time he was liv^ing,
the last few days of his life ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reason stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, Hodges' body was found on August 16, 1965.
It appeared that he had walked from the place where he had been
beaten to a well, apparently in an effort to wash the blood off of him-
self, when he died. An examination of his body showed welts from
the bottom of his feet to the top of his head. There was a hole in the
top of his head. There was a split from the left side of his nose to his
left eye which was deep enough so that you could see the roof of his
mouth. Mr. Seale, do you know anything about this ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reasons previously stated, I re-
spectfully decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Are you a member of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan today ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reasons previously stated, I
respectfully decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, on behalf of any Ku Klux Klan organiza-
tion, have you been a member of a team which carried out an act of
violence against any human being?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2815
Mr. Clyde Seale. Sir, for the same reasons I stated, I respectfully
decline to answer this question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions to ask this
witness.
Mr. Sexner. Mr. Seale, I thought I would never hear a son ever
take the fifth amendment in acknowledging his father. Are you the
father of James Ford Seale?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Seale, the chairman will probably rule me out of
order, but are you a religious man ?
Mr. Clyde Seale. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. (Yyde Seale. Thank you. Your Honor.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Appell. Julius Hai^per.
The Chairman. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the
testimony you are about to give, sir, will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Harper. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JULIUS HUNTER HARPER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES J. MAY III AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record?
Mr. Harper. Julius Hunter Harper.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, are you appearing here today in accord-
ance with the subpena served upon you on December 1, 1965, by John
D. Sullivan at 212 Highway 51, Crystal Springs, Mississippi?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record?
Mr. May. Charles J. May III, attorney at law. Laurel, Mississippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Harper. February 10, 1916, at Crystal Springs, Copiah County.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, would you give the committee a brief
resume of your educational background ?
Mr. Harper. I graduated from Crystal Springs High School in the
scholastic year of 1934-35.
Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background from 1960 ?
Mr. Harper. In 1960 I was working for the Mississippi Steel Cor-
poration at Flowood, Mississippi, in the capacity of a maintenance
electrician. In "62 I went in business at Crystal Springs, Mississippi,
operating the J & F Grille, which is a restaurant.
The Chairman. Where?
Mr. Harper. Crystal Springs.
Mr. Appell. Have you had any sources of income other than the in-
come which you received from the J &— did you say H or F ?
2816 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Harper. J & F.
Mr. Appei^l. J & F diner or restaurant ?
Tlie Chairman. I think the name of the place is tlie J & F Cafe.
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir. I have received compensation from my
duties at the Mississippi Steel Corporation.
Mr. Appell. And what were your duties and over what period of
time did you receive such ?
Mr. Harper. That was from 1959 through 1962. Then I went in
business for myself, sir.
Mr. Appell. I probably
The Chairman. Ask the question ajjain.
Mr. Appell. Other than the employment which you enumerated,
have you had any sources of income since 1960 ?
Mr. Harper, Sir, in conjunction with my cafe business, I own a farm
on which I raise numerous things to help at the cafe with, such as
cattle and other produce, and that would be a form of income.
Mr. Appell. Have you received any other income from any other
source ?
Mr. Harper. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you receive any reimbursement of expenses in-
curred in any fashion in addition to your^ income as a worker, as a
cafe operator, and from your farm ?
Mr. Harper. I do not recall having received any such income, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Were you ever reimbursed for any expenses that you
might have incurred in the form of travel or other expenses by an
organization known as the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi ?
The Chairman. My question was broad enough to cover that. He
can answer it.
Mr. Harper. I have not received any income other than that that
has already been mentioned, sir.
The Chairman. Let it go. That was not responsive. The question
was. Did you ever receive any money as reimbursement for expenses?
Did you?
Mr. Harper. Not to the best of my knowledge, sir.
The Chairman. It seems you would have knowledge.
Mr. Harper. I don't think there was. I don't recall.
Mr. Pool. Did you ever incur any expenses on behalf of the Klan
organization in Mississippi ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Pool. Were you ever reimbursed for any expenses that you
might have incurred on behalf of the Klan organizations of Missis-
sippi?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
In response to the chairman's question a while ago, I can safely say
"no."
Mr. Pool. But you took the fifth amendment on my questions?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2817
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, the subpena served upon you calls upon
you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights of
the Ku KIux Klan of Mississippi, and affiliated organizations, namely, the White
Christian Protei'tive and Legal Defense Fund and Tlie Mississippi Constitutional
Council, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as the present or former Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
In the representative capacity set forth in the subpena I ask you to
produce those documents.
Mr. Harper. Sir, I could not produce such records that were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were,
and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do
not have access to such records.
The Chairman-. Did any record pertaining to Klan activities in the
unit or Klavern to which you belonged come into your possession?
And I mean any records, be they in the form of documents or checks
or minutes, or originals or copies of applications for membei^hip or
membership lists, or an}^ other kind of document or piece of paper
having to do with your Klavern.
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer the question.
The Chairman. It is my information that you were the nmnber
two man of the whole State of Mississippi in the "Wliite Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. You mean to say that no such
papers, resolutions, checks, application blanks, membership list, by
name or numbers, ever came into your possession and never Avent
through your hands.
Mr. Harper. Repeat.
The Chairman. Never came into your possession or never went
through your hands ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I should say that in your particular State of Missis-
sippi, you are the Grand Dragon according to our information, but
you are number two man by virtue of the fact that you have an Impe-
rial Wizard there, whose name is or was Sam Bowers? Is Sam Bow-
ers still Imperial Wizard ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Now I am going to ask you this question and, for
the purpose of this question, I am going to assume that, through press
releases, television, radio, you knew more or less about the Henry Dee
and Charles Moore incident and that as Grand Dragon, through Klan
sources, you in fact knew more than the normal individual, and I make
that assumption because to do otherwise would simply violate com-
mon sense and would be completely incredible. Since the occurrence
of the Henry Dee and Charles Moore incident, were any steps initiated
to expel from membership of the T\^iite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi Charles Marcus Edwards and James Ford Seale or any
other individual ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
2818 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Goon.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls upon
you to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you. in your ca-
pacity as the present or past Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organiza-
tion authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.
Mr. Harper. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were,
and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do
not have access to such records.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, paragraph 3 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce :
(Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1120,
"U.S. Conwration Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June 30.
1965, filed by you as Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi.
In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 3, 1 ask you to
produce the documents called for.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. Sir, I could not produce sucli records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were not
and are not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do
not have access to such records.
Mr. Appell. To your personal knowledge, were such returns filed ?
Mr. Harper. For the same reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. As the Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan, how are finances handled within that organization?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the same reasons previously stated, I respect-
fully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, I hand you a document, which is tlie con-
stitution of the "\^niite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, a
temporary document, which was issued prior to the constitution issued
on April 19, 1964.
I ask you if you are familiar with the constitution and tlie attach-
ments to it.
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document marked "Julius Harper Exhibit No. 1," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, were you ever elected to the position of
sheriff in the State of Mississippi ?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. During what years did you hold the office of sheriff?
Mr. Harper. From January 4, 1948, through January 5, 1952.
The Chairman. What county ?
Mr. Harper. Copiah County, sir.
Mr. Appell. As a law enforcement officer and based only on what
you liave read in the newspaper, would you as a sheriff tolerate the
existence of a Ku Klux Klan organization within your jurisdiction?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2819
("Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. ITarper. Kestate that question, sir.
Mr. Appell. Read tlie question back to the witness.
(The question was read by the reporter.)
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, I show you a document, not identified as to
the author, headed "Secrecy.-' As the Grand Dragon of tlie Kni<jhts
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, did you ever see that document ?
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Appell. Or one containing the same text ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document previously marked '"Harold Delk Exhibit Xo. 1."')
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, I hand you now documents entitled "Ex-
ecutive Lecture of March 1, 1964," "Imperial Executive Order,*"
May 3, 1964, and ask you if these two documents were official docu-
ments of the "WHiite Knights of the Ku Klnx Klan of Mississippi.
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Documents previously marked "Burrel White Exhibits Nos. 2 and
1," respectively.)
Mr. Appell. I hand you a reproduction of a document entitled
merely "Harrasment."
I ask you if this is a document published — if the original of that
was the document published — by the "Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
(Document previously marked "James Jones P^xhibit No. 34."*)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Harper, do you today hold the position of Grand
Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege with respect to questions relating to the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and to his office of Grand Dragon, I
present to the committee the results of our investigation as they per-
tain to Mr. Harper.
Mr. Harper, until the end of at least 1965, was Grand Dragon of the
Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and a member of
a Wliite Knights Klavern known under the cover name of the Copiah
Rod and Gun Club, and located on Route 1 in Crystal Springs, Mis-
sissippi. On June 7, 1964, at a State meeting of the White Knights
near Raleigh, Mississippi, Mr. Harper explained to members of the
Klan assembled that they should avoid the violation of Federal law
at all cost.
On June 24, 1964, at a meeting of the Hinds County Klavern, Mr.
Harper told the assembled that for all future "jobs" (quote and end
2820 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
quote), the province giant -would select the unit to pull the "job."
The county coordinator would then select the meeting place, such as
a motel or restaurant, and the exalted cyclops of the unit selected
would then select the members to actually pull the "job."
This was to be done in order to secure maximum security.
In July 1964, at a meeting of the Hinds County Klavern, Mr.
Harper stated that he was taking the necessary steps to identify FBI
informants in the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi
and they would be severely punished when they were exposed.
Harper was present at a State executive meeting on September
The Chairman. State that again.
Mr. Appell. Present at a State executive meeting on September 6,
1964, held at Crystal Springs, Mississippi.
On September 20, 1964, Harper was present at another State execu-
tive meeting, at which plans were discussed concerning bombing of
churches, at which COFO workers were present.
At this meeting Imperial Wizard Bowers discussed a plan to start
a mass campaign against the Federal Government, the theme of which
would be that the Government is aiding the Communists by pushing
the Negro vote campaign. This, it was hoped, would force ignorant
people into committing acts of violence.
On September 27, 1964, at a State executive meeting at Meridian,
Mississippi, Harper stated that there must be no more church bomb-
ings at this time as these were hurting the White Knights expansion
program. He stated, however, that Klansmen should be prepared to
follow orders of Klan officials and they should possess sufficient arms
and ammunitions to accomplish any assigned mission.
On September 29, 1964, Harper discussed with other Klansmen the
harassment of COFO workers at the Mennonite School for Wayward
Girls.
On October 11, 1964, Harper was present at an executive meeting
at the Wliite Knights at Crystal Springs, Mississippi, at which the
bombing of a COFO house in Vicksburg, Mississippi, was discussed
by Imperial Wizard Bowers and former lecturer McGregor from
Jackson, Mississippi.
In October 1964, Harper stated at a meeting of the White Knights
that Klansmen having explosives should bury them for the present
time for later possible use.
Harper was present at a province meeting in Hattiesburg, Missis-
sippi, on November 5, 1964.
Harper was present at a State meeting near Harrisville, Mississippi,
where a 90-day moratorium was declared for all third and fourth de-
gree projects. And this meeting took place on November 15, 1964.
On February 20, 1965, Harper met with H. H. Heredeen, secretai-y-
treasurer of the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.
Harper was reelected to the position of Grand Dragon at a State
meeting on December 13, 1964, southwest of Brandon, Mississippi.
Harper was present at a meeting held about January 1 at Jackson,
Mississippi
The Chairman. January 1, what?
Mr. Appell. The date is not here, Mr. Chairman, but it is 1965.
At Jackson, Mississippi, where plans were discussed for the establish-
ment of the "Wliite Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2821
Harper was made, by Imperial Wizard Bowers, a member of the
committee of the ^Vliite Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.
At a meeting on March 6, 1965, at Terry, Mississippi, Harper men-
tioned that efforts were being made to set up the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund as a nonprofit organization to
avoid paying Federal income tax.
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Harper pos-
sesses valuable information which is both pertinent and relevant to
this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting reme-
dial legislation.
The Chairiman". Mr. Harper, Mr. Appell, as you know as a former
law enforcement officer, is under oath, just as you are, mider pains
and penalties of perjury, and he has related these facts. You now
have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement, to con-
firm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to explain any
part of the statement.
In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com-
mittee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to avail your-
self of this opportunity ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. No, sir.
The Chairman. I just inform you, then, sir, that absent your re-
buttal, or other facts that may come to the attention of the conmiittee,
this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say ?
Mr. Harper. No, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. HaqDer, there is something inconsistent in
the positions that you have taken, as related by Mr. Appell. On the
one hand, you stated that everyone had to be vei*y careful not to violate
the Federal law, and on the other hand, you said that your organi-
zation was seeking to find out who the undercover agents of the FBI
were, and that if they were found, tliey would be severely dealt with.
Are you blowing hot and cold?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I do not know the exact, or I do not pretend to
quote the exact verbiage of Mr. Appell's statement in that regard,
but there are certain passages in the statement which you as an intel-
ligent man understood, I know, indicating that at one time or another
you were advising the Klan to go deeper underground and be more
careful about exposure for security reasons. Now it has come to me,
and it is my information, that the actions, both of the FBI and these
hearings, are hurting
Mr. Harper. Repeat, sir.
The Chairman. Are "hurting,'" and I use that word in quotations.
Isn't that true?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Is it not a fact that these hearings have been the
subject of considerable discussion at higher echelons of the Klans in
Mississippi ?
2822 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. All right. Is there anything else?
Mr. Pool. No questions.
Mr. Senner. I have some. Mr. Harper, you testified that the reason
you refused or failed to deliver the records, documents, and other
papers called for in the subpena was due to the fact that they were not
in your possession or control. I take it that statement was from the
time the subpena was served on you to the present time when you are
sitting in that cliair ; is that correct?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. Repeat that, sir.
Mr. Senner. Would you read it, Mr. Reporter?
(The question was read by the reporter.)
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. All right, I will ask you this question :
Mr. Harper, as Grand Dragon, and with that subpena sensed on
you and the attachment calling for those documents, from the time of
the service of that subpena to the present time, do you know of
the whereabouts of the documents that are to be kept by the Grand
Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer the question.
Mr. Senner. Did you have anything to do with destroying them ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. If they have not been destroyed and you do have
knowledge of their whereabouts outside of your control and possession,
could you have obtained those documents to comply with the subpena
and the attachment requesting those documents before this commit-
tee ? I will restate the question.
Mr. Harper, have the documents been destroyed ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Do you know where the documents are now ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. If you know where the documents are now, could you
have obtained those documents from the date of the service of the
subpena upon you to the present time when you are sitting in that wit-
ness chair?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons — sir, I could not produce such
records as were ordered by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact
that such records were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or con-
trol and I did not and do not have access to such records.
Mr. Senner. And you responded that that was from the date of the
sennce of the subpena upon you until the recent time when you are sit-
ting in the witness chair?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. Then I asked you if you knew where the documents
are from the date of the subpena to the present time when you are sit-
ting in that witness chair. What is your answer ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2823
Mr. Harper. Sir, for tlie reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
. Mr. Senner. I will ask you again, Mr. Harper, do you know where
those documents are?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Did you haA'e the documents called for by the subpena
prior to the date of service of the subpena ?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. From tlie time of the announcement of this investiga-
tion by the House Committee on Un-American Activities, did you at
the date prior to the subpena have the documents called for by the
subpena served upon you in your representative capacity as Grand
Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi ?
Mr. Harper. Would you repeat the date included, the date, month
and year?
Mr. Senner. The date of the announcement of the investigation of
this committee of the Ku Klu Klan was March 30, 1965.
Mr. Harper. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. "Wlien you say "no, sir," I take it that you did not from
that time until the present time, when you are in the witness chair, have
in your possession the documents and the records called for by the
subpena served upon you ?
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Harper, you are under oath.
Mr. Harper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Harper, to be perfectly frank about it, we have
information that there was discussion of destruction of certain docu-
ments after the commission of a certain act of Adolence, in general.
Were you present at any time when a discussion of that kind was had?
Mr. Harper. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your final witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Billy Buckles.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand, sir.
Do you solemnly swear, sir, that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Buckles. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BILLY DOUGLAS BUCKLES, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY
Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Buckles. Billy Douglas Buckles.
Mr. Appell. That is B-i-1-l-y?
Mr. Buckles. That is correct.
Mr. iVppELL. Last name, B-u-c-k-1-e-s?
Mr. Buckles. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing today, Mr. Buckles, in accordance
with a subpena served upon you by Investigator John D. Sullivan of
59-222 O — 67 — pt. 3 32
2824 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
this committee on November 3, 1965, at the International Paper Com-
pany, Natchez, Mississippi ?
Mr. Buckles. I am.
Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel?
Mr. BucicLES. I am.
Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record?
Mr. Blackwell. Charles Black\vell, attorney at law. Laurel, Missis-
sippi.
Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law, Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, when and where were you born ?
Mr. BucKELS. I w^as born in the Providence Community of Franklin
County, Mississippi, September 24, 1931.
Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your educational
background.
Mr. Buckles. I graduated from Meadville High School in April
1949.
Mr. Appell. Give the committee a resume of your employment
background since 1949.
Mr. Buckles. I was employed by the General Geophysical Company
of Houston, Tex., from September 1949 until January 1951. From
January 1951 until August 1951, I was employed at International
Paper Company.
From August 1951, 1 served 2 years in the United States Naval Ke-
serve — 2 years active duty — and returned to International Paper
Company in Natchez, Mississippi, in September of 1953. I have been
in the employment of the International Paper Company at their
Natchez mill, Natchez, Mississippi, since that time, and to date.
Mr. Appell. Since January 1, 1963, from what other sources have
you received income?
The Chairman. If any.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, under the conditions of the subpena served
upon you contained in an attachment which was made a part of the
subpena you are called upon in paragraph 1 to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to tJie
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and aflBliated organizations, namely, the White
Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund and the Mississippi Constitutional
Council in your possession, custody or control or maintained by you or available
to you as the present or Past Grand Giant of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi.
In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, 1 ask you to
produce the documents called for.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I could not produce such records as ordered by
the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were, and
are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
The Chairman. Mr. Buckles, do you realize that whetlier or not an
order is made upon you to produce those documents by me, that if what
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2825
you say here is not true and we find it out, that you are subject to
per juiy ? I just want to know if you realize that ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
The Chairman. And that applies to all previous witnesses.
Mr. Pool. And, Mr. Chairman, isn't the penalty for perjuiy a good
deal stift'er than the penalties for contempt ?
The Chairman, Yes.
Mr. Buckles. I realize that, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls upon you
to produce :
All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
Grand Giant of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitu-
tion and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by
you and any other oflScer of said organization, the same being in your possession,
custody or control.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I could not produce such records as ordered by
the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were, and
are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
Mr. Pool. You said "were, and are, not." That means they have
never been in your possession, as I miderstand that.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Pool. Do you want to stand on your statement ?
Mr. Buckles. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. "\Vlien you say "were not," are you trying to say
"are not now and were not since the date of service of the subpena,"
or do you mean at any time ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Buckles. At the time I was subpenaed, sir ?
The Chairman. Were they ever in your possession ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5tli, 1st, and
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Were those documents, to your knowledge, de-
stroyed ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Pool. Do you mean the fifth amendment or the other reasons ?
Mr. Buckles. The reasons of the 5th, 1st, 4th, and 14th amendments
to the Constitution of the United States of America.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, paragraph 3 calls upon you to produce :
Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, For 1120, "U.S.
Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal year 1961 through .Time 30, 1965,
filed by you as Grand Giant.
In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 3, 1 ask you to
produce the documents.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I could not produce such i-ecords as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were, and
are, not in my possession, custody, and control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
2826 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. As the grand giant of the organization, do you know
whether or not it has ever filed corporate tax returns ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, do you today hold the position of grand
giant of the "\Miite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, do you possess knowledge with respect to
an organization known as the Mississippi Constitutional Council ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Wliere does the Mississippi Constitutional Council
operate, and where does the A\Tiite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi deposit money collected from its membership?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, what knowledge do you possess of vio-
lence carried out by members of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated. I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Was an approach ever made to you as the grand giant
of the organization by representatives of a Klavern of the White
Knights seeking permission to carry out a job or project of that
organization?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Buckles, the committee has sworn testimony under
oath to the effect that within the organizational structure of the "\^niite
Knights, as a part of a formal procedure there were certain classifi-
cations given to various acts of harassment or acts of intimidation or
more serious acts. These were known in the terminology of the Klan
as projects or jobs 1, 2, 3, or 4. Have you ever heard that discussion ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. The sworn testimony that we have from a former of-
ficial of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, the
sworn testimony was that there is a project known as Project 1 :
threatening telephone calls or visits.
[Project] 2. Burning of a cross, usually on the property of an
individual.
[Project] 3. Beating or flogging; burning of properties; wild
shooting into property and bombings; and
Project 4. Extermination.
I ask you to af!irm or deny this sworn testimony that we have with
respect to the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr, Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of tlie Avitness' claim of privi-
lege and his refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee
the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Buckles:
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2827
Mr. Buckles Avas identified throiiijli investigation and sworn testi-
mony as the grand giant of the White Knights of the Kn Khix Khm
of Mississippi.
On June 9, 1964, Mr. Buckles, at a meeting of the Hinds County
Klaveni, stated that the "Wliite Knights was sponsoring an ex-convict
to do a job in the Jackson. Mississippi, area, wliich would cost the Klan
$1,200; $400 payable in advance and $800 upon completion. Buckles
described the job as one "that would make the murder of Medgar
Evers look sick."
A sum of $100 was collected at this meeting toward the payment of
the $1,200.
Buckles was present at a meeting of the Hinds County Klavern on
June 24, 1964, at which A. C. Herrington was introduced as the Klan
kleagle, or organizer. Also discussed at this meeting was Klan orga-
nization and structure, security, and the performance of acts of
violence.
On September 6, 1964, at a State executive meeting held in Crystal
Springs, Mississippi, Buckles stated that a group of Jackson Klans-
men had asked him to get permission from the State to eliminate
Hazel Brannan Smith, a newspaperwoman in Jackson, Mississipi)i.
A stick of dynamite was thrown into the office of Hazel Brannan
Smith, who publishes a newspaper, the Northside Reporter, on August
27.
Buckles was present at a State executive meeting held on Septem-
ber 14, 1964, in the office of Norman Jackson in Crystal Springs, Mis-
sissippi.
At a meeting on September 20, 1964, Buckles supported a motion
made by A. C. Herrington that church bombings be restricted to those
churches at which COFO workers are present.
At a meeting held on January 1, 1965, at the Heidelberg Hotel in
Jackson, Mississippi, Buckles was present. At this meeting the estab-
lishment and objectives of the White Christian Protective and Legal
Defense Fund were discussed by Bowers and other high ranking of-
ficers of the "Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.
At a meetmg of the Hinds County Klavern held on June 24, 1964,
at Jackson, Mississippi, Buckles, the grand giant, stated that there
were to be no more bombings of any type by the Klan in Mississippi
as these bombings drew attention to the Klan too rapidly.
Buckles said that there are other ways to handle things and, no
matter what they tell you, arson is hard to prove. Buckles suggested
that all members purchase firearms and ammunition and said that
Klansmen should not pay excessive prices for this material as he —
Buckles — could obtain rifles for $15 each, which included three clips
of ammunition.
Buckles commented that the outside agitators must be stopped, even
if it takes a few busted heads and, if necessary, the Klan would go
further than this to stop these agitators.
Buckles said that when the Klansmen locate meeting places of Ne-
groes, such as Negro churches, they should throw carpet tacks on the
parking lot and disable
The Chairman. They should what?
Mr. Appell. They should throw carpet tacks on the parking lot and
disable the assembled cars by cutting ignition wires.
2828 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN" THE U.S.
Buckles suggested that gasoline operators who were members should
have a good supply of sugar to pour into the tanks of cars belonging
to integrationists.
Buckles said he assumed that all of the members present had read of
the disappearance of the three civil rights workers in Neshoba County
and said, "Xow, they know what we will do. We have shown them
what we will do and we will do it again if necessaiy."
Buckles was present at a State meeting near Raleigh, Mississippi,
at which a resolution was passed to blow up the Laurel newspaper,
Leader-Call; a short time after this meeting an explosion took place
at the newspaper offices.
Buckles is known to have made reports of the financial conditions of
several units of the 'Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Missis-
sippi. At a meeting on May 2, 1965, Buckles reported at a State
meeting in Pearl River Countv that Julius Harper received $400 and
the Greenwood I^nit had $1,000.
Buckles was present at a State meeting on June 27, 1965, near Green-
wood, Mississippi, at which Devours Nix was elected to replace Ernest
Gilbert as head of the State KBI.
On August 22, 1965, at a meeting near Florence, Mississippi, Buckles
requested that $500 be sent to Greenwood, Mississippi, for the men ar-
rested for arson.
On August 8, 1965, Sam Bowers offered a resolution at a State meet-
ing held near Byram, Mississippi, to the effect that the "\Yliite Knights
were forbidden to associate with the members of the UKA. Buckles
spoke in opposition to this resolution.
Buckles was present at a State meeting held on May 2, 1965, at Pop-
larville, Mississippi, along with Sam Bowers.
On October 31, 1965, at a State meeting held in a rural area near
Harrisville, Buckles announced his resignation as a State officer and
said he would devote full time to operating the newspaper the Southern
Review.
This infoiTnation, Mr. Chairman, indicates Mr. Buckles possesses
much additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to
this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in the enactment
of remedial legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Buckles, you have heard the sworn statement
of the committee's investigator.
You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment, confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to ex-
plain any part of that statement.
In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com-
mitte may deem relevant to this inquiry.
Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ?
Mr. Buckles. No, sir.
The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Buckles, I must inform you that
absent any rebuttal on your part, or other facts that may come to the
attention of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy
of its investigation. Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say?
Mr. Buckles. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. In view of the fact you answered several questions pro-
pounded either by the chairman or Congressman Pool, that you have
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2829
never had records in your possession, how could you give a financial
report in either May or June of 1965 ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Was your statement to Congressman Joe Pool truthful
and honest in all respects ?
Mr. Buckles. I respectfully submit the explanation that I did not
make such statement.
Mr. Senner. In response to Congressman Pool's question — using
the words from the statement you read here, and the record will speak
for itself — you said that you did not now have — would you read your
statement, please, in the refusal of the documents, that you do not now
have ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records were, and
are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not
have access to such records.
Mr. Senner. And in response to Congressman Pool's question when
you used the word "were" that meant you never had them, and you re-
sponded "yes." How did you respond ?
Mr. Buckles. I said "no, sir."
Mr. Pool. You never had the records, I suppose. I don't know what
you mean.
Mr. Buckles. Could I please have Congressman Pool's question read
back over to me, sir?
Mr. Senner. Congressman Pool, would you state your question
again ?
Mr. Pool. I asked you, after you read your answer, if the use of the
word "were" meant in the past tense, that you had never had the rec-
ords in your possession, and you said "no."
The Chairman. And in answer to my question, it is my recollection
that you said that by referring to the past tense you were indicating
that you did not have the records now and they were not in your pos-
session, meaning before and after the date of the subpena. Was that
your response to my question ?
Mr. Buckles. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Pool. Then why can't you answer Congressman Senner's
question ?
Mr. Buckles. Possibly I misunderstood your question, sir. Would
you repeat it, please ?
Mr. Senner. Did you have those records prior to the subpena, when
it was served upon you, at any time in your representative capacity fis
called for in the subpena ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and
14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mr. Senner. Did you destroy these records ? That is my question.
Did you destroy those records ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Did you conceal those records?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
2830 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Senner. Did you burn and/or conceal those records to impede
or prevent that information from coming before this House of Con-
gress in this committee ?
Mr. Buckley. May I have the question read back ?
(The question was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I have never done anything to impede any in-
formation from coming
Mr. Senner. Answer my question and don't tell me about
impeding.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I have never done anything to impede any
records from coming before this committee.
Mr. Senner. Did you bum or destroy any records called for by
that subpena in your official capacity ? Yes or no.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Did you burn — when I use the word "burn" I mean in
any way destroy — and/or conceal those records at any time since May
30,1965?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Pool. May I interrupt you right here a second ?
Mr. Senner. Yes.
Mr. Pool. Perjury is a very serious offense, and in view of your
answer to my question earlier, I am going to ask you one further ques-
tion to kind of give you a chance to straighten it out if you want to.
AYlien was the last time you saw any of the records of this organi-
zation ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. In response to Congressman PooPs question, when he
asked you were those records ever in your possession, you answered
"No." Is that a correct summation of Mr. Pool's question to you
and your response to him ?
Mr. Buckles. No, sir, that is not correct.
Mr. Senner. Would you please correct it for the record ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, I could not produce such records as were re-
quested by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records
were, and are, not in my possession, custody, or control and I did not
and do not have access to such records.
Mr. Senner. Were such records in your possession or control or
access since March 30, 1965 ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Do you know where those records are?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Are those records now in existence?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. I have one or two questions on this. I have a clear
recollection — and correct me if I am wrong — that in one of those
preliminary questions asked of you, you said that as of now, today,
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2831
yoii were employed by the International Paper Company. Is that
your testimony I
Mr. Buckles. I stated that I was employed by International Paper
Company to date. I assume that I am still in the employ of the In-
ternational Paper Company.
The Chairman. I am not talking about any possible dismissals,
nor am I suggesting anythmg. So far as you know^, you are today
employed by the International Paper Company?
Mr. Buckles. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And how long have you been so employed, ap-
proximately ?
Mr. Buckles. Since either the last of January 1951 or in early
February 1951.
The Chairman. Mr. Appell, in his statement, said that on October
31, 1965, you said somethmg to the effect that you were resigning in
whatever official capacity you had then in order to be employed full
time by the Southern Review^ and in order to dispel any thought in
your mind about it, I am not questioning you as a newspaperman or
asking whether you now are or ever were one or ever will be. Is that a
fact that you made that statement ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you tell the truth that you were going to, from
then on, be employed by the Southern Revieio ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Have you been employed by the Southern^ Revieio
in order to carry out Klan activities — that is what I am talking about —
at any time since October 31, 1965 ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you, in order to carry out the objectives and
purposes and programs and to propagandize the activities of the Klan,
contribute any articles to the Southern Review ?
Mr. Buckles. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know Mr. Greaves w^ho testified yesterday?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know him, not as an editor of the Southern
Revieiu, or as a newspaperman, but as a man, as a person ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Do you know him as a Klansman ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. Did you ever attend any Klan meetings with him ?
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, 1 respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Buckles, would you be kind enough to tell the com-
mittee how you were able to give a financial report on May 2, Pearl
River County, if you had no records ?
2832 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Buckles. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.
Mr. Senner. I expected that answer.
The Chairman. The witness is excused, and the committee will
stand in recess until 10 a.m. next Tuesday.
(Members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and Buchanan of
the subcommittee and also Representative Senner.)
(Whereupon, at 6 p.m., Friday, January 14, 1966, the subcommittee
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, January 18, 1966.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
TUESDAY, JANUARY 18, 1966
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D.C.
public hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 10 :25 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House
Office Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman)
presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, Loui-
siana, chairman ; Joe R. Pool, of Texas ; Charles L. Weltner, of Geor-
gia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of
Alabama.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and
Buchanan.
Committee member also present : Representative George F. Senner,
Jr., of Arizona.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator ; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
Are you ready, Mr. Appell ? If so, call your first witness.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Billy Wilson.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Wilson. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BILLY WILSON
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, will you state your full name for the
record ?
Mr. Wilson. Billy Wilson.
Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with a subpena
served upon you by Investigator John D. Sullivan of this staff on
September 8, 1965 ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, when and where were you born ?
2833
2834 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Wilson. I was born in McComb, Mississippi, 1942. April 22.
Mr. Appell. April 22. Mr. Wilson, it is evident that yon are not
represented by counsel before the committee this morning. Do you
desire comisel ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Wilson, I am glad you are appearing. T)o
you understand — ^and this I ask you in accordance with regular prac-
tice— do you understand that although you do not have a lawyer, and
if you desire to, you could invoke the fifth amendment, if you would
want to?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, what is your educational background ?
Mr. Wilson. High school equivalent.
Mr. Appell. Where did you receive your high school equivalent i
Mr. Wilson. In the United States Army,
Mr. Appell. What period of time did you serve in the United States
Army?
Mr. Wilson. I entered the Army May 5, 1959, and was released
from active duty May 7, 1962.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, are you now, or have you ever been, a
member of a Ku Klux Klan organization ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Well, now, you had better split that question. I
don't know whether he is saying yes to which one.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; I was.
The Chairman. Yes, sir; you were.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Are you now a member?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. When and where
The Chairman. You develop that further.
Mr. Appell. When and where did you join a Ku Klux Klan
organization ?
Mr. Wilson. In McComb, Mississippi, on July 7, 1964.
Mr. Appell. What Klan organization did you join?
Mr. Wilson. Well, the name I don't really know. All I knew was
by Ray Smith's group.
Mr. Appell. What was the — well, let me show you a copy of an
application for membership in the United Klans of America, Inc.
(Richard Constantineau Exhibit No. 3) , and ask you if the application,
copy which I hand you, is similar to an application you executed at
the time you became a member of a Ku Klux Klan organization.
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson, This is the one,
Mr, Appeix. Did you know prior to today that the parent organiza-
tion— and I am not speaking about the Klavern — was a Klavern of
the United Klans of America?
Mr. Wilson, Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. You knew that. Explain to the committee the steps
which you took in order to join this Klavern of the United Klans of
America.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2835
Mr. WiLSOx. In the month of May, I would say, of lOCU, 1 was
asked by anotlier member of the Klan, which at this time I didn't
know that lie was a member — he asked me would I like to be a member
of the Klan, and I told him that I didn't know, that I would have to
give it some thought.
I thought about it for about 2 months, and in the month of July of
1964 I told him that I was interested in it, and he said that lie thought
that he might be able to arrange it.
Mr. Appell. What procedure, to your knowledge, did Billy Ains-
worth follow in arranging for you to join the United Klans of
America ?
The Chairman. You haven't established
(Discussion off the record.)
The Chairman. Eepeat the question.
Mr. Appell. Yes. What procedure did Billy Ainsworth follow in
having you join this Klavern of the United Klans of America?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, he met me at my home on the night of
July 7, 1964, and from there we went uptown in McComb to one
building called the Hinton Building, and there we went upstairs.
The Chairman. How do you spell that ?
Mr. Wilson. H-i-n-t-o-n.
The Chairman. H-i-n-t-o-n.
Mr. Wilson. Right.
Mr. Appell. When you got upstairs, you went to a room up there.
Do you know the identity of the
Mr. Wilson. I don't know the name of the room. You might say
it would be an anteroom, or some name to that effect.
Mr. Appell. What happened wdien you arrived there?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, there were about, I would say, five or six
new members that night wanting into the Klan, and
Mr. Appell. What happened after you got in? Did somecme ex-
plain to you the principles of the Klan ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; we were indoctrinated, to an extent, and
from there we were administered some oaths there.
Mr. Appell. Before we get to the oaths, prior to accompanying
Billy Ainsworth to this room in the Hinton Building, had you executed
this application for membership, a copy of which I showed you?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir; that was done in the anteroom.
Mr. Appell. Was this application given to you prior to the indoc-
trination, or after the indoctrination were you asked and others asked
whether or not they desired to join ?
Mr. Wilson. I believe, sir, that that was done after- — well, let me
see now. Indoctrination was given. After that, it was asked if there
was anyone whose mind was not made up, if they wanted to leave, that
would be all right. As I recall that night, I believe there was one
that left. After that, then we signed tliis application.
Mr. Appell. Other than Billy Ainsworth that accompanied you, did
you know the identity of any of the other people that were in this
same room with you ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir ; I didn't.
Mr. Appell. Did you know at that time the identity of the person
that was indoctrinating you into the principles of the Klan?
2836 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. Mr. Paul Wilson.
Mr. Appell. Did you know him at that time, or did you learn his
identity later?
Mr. Wilson. I knew him at that time.
Mr. Appell. You knew him at that time.
The Chairman. Let me ask a question.
Wlien you say "then w^e signed this application," you mean you
signed an application similar to the one that was handed you? That's
not actually the one you signed.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Appell. Then after you were given the opportunity of leaving
or remaining, as I understand your testimony, you executed the ap-
plication, a copy of which or the form of which I showed you,
Mr. Wilson. Tliat is right.
Mr. Appell. After you executed the form of application, what hap-
pened to that apj)lication ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, after the oaths were administered in the
anteroom, we went into the large — what do you call it now? — meeting
hall, I guess, and there we w^ere administered one more oath and
sworn into the Klan. After that, the applications that we had made
out were — they had let us have them back, and there they were burnt.
Mr. Appell. So that after taking the final series of oaths in the main
meeting chamber, each of you had the application which you executed
returned to you and thereafter each of you destroyed it.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Appell. I show you a series of oaths. I ask you to look them
over and to advise the committee whether the Section I, Obedience,
Section II, Secrecy, Section III, Fidelity, were the oaths administered
to you in this small room, and whether or not Section IV, the oath
Klanishness, was administered to you after you were admitted to the
main chamber.
(Documents handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. I would say this was a copy.
(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4."')
Mr. Appell. After you destroyed your application for membership,
how were you known within the Klavem as a member of that Klavem ?
Mr. Wilson. We were known by a number.
Mr. Appell. What number was assigned to you ?
Mr. Wilson. Number 98.
Mr. Appell. Does that mean, Mr. Wilson, that you were the 98th
member recruited into that Klavem ?
Mr. Wilson. I would think so; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Was the Klavem to which you were assigned known
technically within the Realm of Mississippi of the United Klans of
America as Klavem No. 700 ?
Mr. Wilson. I really couldn't say.
Mr. Appell. Who was the exalted cyclops of the Klavem to which
you were assigned ?
Mr. Wilson. Mr. Ray Smith.
Mr. Appell. Is Ray Smith a man who is employed by the telephone
company in McComb ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2837
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Can you recall the identity of otlier officers of the
Klavern, the Ray Smith Klavern, as we shall call it, to which yon were
assigned as a member ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, as I said, Mr. Ray Smith was the EC. I
believe that Mr. Paul Wilson was the vice president, you might say.
I don't know what the name is.
Mr. Appell. In Klankraft, that is the klaliff .
Mr. Wilson. I am not very familiar with the name.
Mr. Appell. All right, sir.
Mr. Wilson. Reverend J. C. Brown would be, now, the kludd ?
Mr. Appell. The kludd.
Mr. Wilson. I believe the minister. The chaplain. Murphy Dun-
can was the treasurer.
Mr. Appell. Let me interrupt you there. Did you subsequently
learn that Murphy Duncan was elected to the position of grand klabee
or State treasurer of the United Klans of America in Mississippi ?
Mr. Wilson. Later on, I did ; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now, I interrupted you, and you had named the exalted
Cyclops, the klaliff or vice president, the klabee or treasurer. Who
acted as the secretary ?
Mr. Wilson. Ernest Zeeck.
Mr. Appell. And that is Z-e-e-c-k ?
Mr. Wilson. I believe that is correct.
Mr. Appell. Can you recall any other officers ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir ; I don't believe.
Mr. Appell. Now, how large in membership was the Klavern, to
your knowledge?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, to my knowledge, there again, being that
my number was 98, I would say it would be well over 100 members.
Mr. Appell. During the course of this membership, did you leave
the Ray Smith Klavern and join another Klavfem ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. On August 11, 1964, Mr. Paul Wilson made
the announcement to Mr. Ray Smith at a weekly meeting there, stating
for reason, I believe, that this Klavern was a little large and there
should be another one formed, and he read off a list of, I believe,
seven names that would be leaving there, and we left.
Mr. Appell. You left for the purpose of forming an additional
Klavern of the United Klans of America?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now, whose names did Mr. Paul Wilson call off to leave
Klavern 700 for the purpose of forming this new Klavern ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir. he read off and named another Wilson name,
James Wilson, myself, Gerald Lawrence, Hilton Dunaway
Mr. Appell. Is that D-u-n-a-w-a-y?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; I belive that is correct. Mr. Gillis, "Bubba"
Gillis.
Mr. Appell. That is Sterling Gillis, who goes by the nickname of
"Bubba"?
Mr. Wilson. Yes.
Mr. Appell. G-i-1-l-i-s?
Mr. Wilson. That is right. And Al Lee.
2838 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Now, as I understand, you are not related to the
two other Wilsons you named ; are you ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; to one.
The Chairman. You are related to one ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. To which one. and how related? Not that we are
interested in relationship ; we want identity.
Mr. Wilson. Paul Wilson is my first cousin, I think.
The Chairman. And you are not related to the other Wilson?
What is his name?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir ; I am not related to James.
The Chairman. James.
Mr. Wilson. Eight.
Mr. Appell. Who became the temporary officers of this new
Klavern ?
Mr. Wilson. Paul Wilson was the elected or the temporary EC. I
think that Al Lee was elected the temporary secretary, James Wilson
was elected temporary treasurer. However, the next week, Mr.
Murphy Ducan met with us, and he assumed these duties.
Mr. Pool. Of treasurer ?
Mr. Wilson. Right; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now, did you, as long as you remained a member of the
United Klans of America, continue membership in this second group,
which we will call the Paul Wilson group ?
Mr. Wilson. I am sorry. Would you
Mr. Appell. I say, as long as you continued your Klan membership,
did you remain a member of the Paul Wilson Klavern, as we shall
call the second group ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now, Mr. Wilson, is it a fact that in October 1964 you
were arrested, charged with three counts of illegal use of explosives,
violation of Mississippi statutes, and one count of conspiracy in the
illegal use of explosives?
Did you on October 23 plead guilty to the three counts of illegal
use of explosives, and nolo contendere to the conspiracy charge, and
did you receive a 5 years' sentence on each of the three counts of illegal
use of explosives and 6 months plus $500 fine on tlie conspiracy
charge?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Appell. As far as the sentences, the tliree 5-year terms to run
concurrently and the 6 months under the conspiracy, were these
sentences suspended?
Mr. Wilson. That is true.
Mr. Appell. Were the sentences suspended under the condition that
not only must you and the others so convicted not engage in any acts
of violence in the future, but that if anv acts of violence in the com-
munity were engaged in, that your conditions would be automatically
forfeited?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
The Chairman. And you are now under very heavy probationary
conditions, are you not?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2839
Mr. Wilson. That is right ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you are respecting them ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, did any of the acts which resulted in your
arrest and couA-iction grow out of your membership in the United
Klans of America, Inc. ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did all of them grow out of your meml)ership in the
United Klans of America, Inc. ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. ]\Ir. Wilson, the first oti'ense involved you in the bomb-
ing of a residence of a man by the name of Charles Bryant. AVould
you, in your own words, tell the committee how you became involved
in this act of bombing ?
Mr. Pool. What was the man's name ?
Mr. Appell. Charles Bryant, B-r-y-a-n-t.
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, as I have stated, on the night of July 7,
1964, I was sworn in as a member of this organization, and on the
night of July 26, my wife and I and my little boy was over at this
other guy's house, and about 8 p.m., I would say, somebody wanted
me on the phone.
I didn't know at that time who it was, so I answered, and it was
Mr. Wilson.
Mr. Appell. Which Mr. Wilson ?
]Mr. Wilson. Paul Wilson. And he said in so many words that
there was something that night that needed doing, and would I like
to help, and I told him that I would.
He told me that he would meet me at my home at approximately 12
midnight. At 12 : 30 that night, or the early morning, he drove up
there to my house there, and I got in his automobile, and we drove to
the home of Mr. Hilton Dunaway, and Mr. Lawrence was also there.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Lawrence. Is that Mr. Gerald Lawrence ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
From there we drove out of McComb, on the road known as the
S-Curve Road, for, oh, a distance of 3 miles, I would say, maybe 4.
There is a road that led off to the right, way back down in the woods.
We went down there, and there was another automobile there, a black
car, a Plymouth, about a '49 model, I would say.
We loaded up in this car and drove to the home of Mr. By rant.
Mr. Appell. Now as you left in the '49 Plymouth, who was driving
the vehicle ?
Mr. Wilson. Mr. Lawrence. Gerald Lawrence.
Mr. Appell. Who was riding on the front seat with him ?
Mr. Wilson. Mr. Dunaway.
Mr. Appell. And that leaves you and Paul Wilson riding in the
rear, on the rear seat of the automobile ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, Paul was riding in the left side in the rear,
and I was on the right side.
Mr. Appell. Paul was behind the driver, and you were behind the
passenger in the front ?
Mr. Wilson. Right.
Mr. Appell. Will you proceed ?
59-222 0—67 — pt. 3 33
2840 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Wilson. As I say, we drove to the home of Mr, Bryant, and we
stopped the car. And there was another car, they were up the road
from us, meeting us, and so we immediately left there, and we made
The Chairman. I am sorry. I don't want to interfere, but I want
to identify. Was Mr. Brj^ant a white man, or a Negro man ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, he was not white.
We made the block. We drove back up there by his house, and we
stopped the car. Mr. Dunaway got out of the car, lit the fuse — I don't
know if Mr. Dunaway lit the fuse or who, but it was lit — stepped to
the rear of the car on the righthand side, and over in the yard it
went.
Mr. Appell. Over in the yard what went ?
Mr. Wilson. The bomb went, or the dynamite.
Mr. Appell. And what was the composition of this bomb ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, I would say that it consisted of about three
sticks of dynamite.
The Chairman. About how long?
Mr. Wilson. I would say they were about 1 foot long and about 1
inch around in diameter.
Mr. Appell. Now in making one of these bombs, you take the sticks
of dynamite, tie them together with masking tape as a general rule,
and then cap and fuse the middle stick?
Mr. Wilson. All the ones that I saw were wrapped up in this white
tape, yes, sir, the masking tape. However, how they were made, or —
I don't know.
Mr. Appell. You never jjarticipated in the manufacturing of a
bomb?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. At the time
The Chairman. Let me see now. Those three sticks of dynamite,
about an inch around and a foot long, were taped together?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Do you know the amount of time you had to get away
from the time you threw it until the time it detonated ?
Mr. Wilson. On that night that you mentioned ?
Mr. Appell. Yes.
Mr. Wilson. No, sir. However, no noise was heard. I never did
hear it.
Mr. Appell. You never heard one. You were out of hearing
distance?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Before it went off?
The Chairman. You mean you drove off hurriedly ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now were you observed, and did anyone fire upon you
at that time?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; just about the time that Hilton Dunaway was
about halfway in the car, somebody shot at us there, from the house,
and Paul Wilson, as I say, was sitting on tlie lefthand side in the rear,
and he had a Ifi over-and-uiider shotgun, and he returned the fire, and
very hurriedly we left the scene.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2841
The CuAiRMAisr. Well, at this point, since he mentioned one piece
of firino; equipment, did you have any other gims, rifles, pistols, in the
car?
Mr. Wii^soN. None that I know of.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, the neAvspaper accounts of the damage to
or the fact that a bomb exploded in the yard of Charles Bryant identi-
fied him as the brother of Curtis Bryant, who was the leader of the
NAACP in the community. Did you know that at that time?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. The newspaper accounts further stated that the first
time you drove up to the house a bomb was thrown which did not
detonate; that you later turned around, as you described it, and a
second bomb was thrown which did explode in the yard of the Bryant
residence. Did your group toss more than the bomb that you have
testified to ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, what did you do after driving away from
the Bryant residence?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, as I said, we left in rather a
The Chairman. A hurry.
Mr. Wilson. A hurry. We returned back to the woods there, where
we had
Mr. Appell. Left Wilson's car ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; we went back to the woods, left this other car
there, and got back in Mr. Wilson's car. We returned to the home
of Hilton Dunaway, let him out, and returned to the home of Mr.
Lawrence there, we let him out. Paul then drove me to my home, let
me out, and from there he returned home.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever learn the identity of the person that
owned the '49 Plymouth that you used, that you found in the woods ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did Paul Wilson
The Chairman. Let me ask you — because I missed it — when you got
to the place where the Plymouth, about a 1949 model, was, w^as there
anyone in the Plymouth, or was it there by itself ?
Mr. Wilson. It was there alone.
The Chairman. I see. And you don't know who drove it there, or
how it happened to be there?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Pool. Did you get the license number? Do you know what
the license number was, or wdiat State it was ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, did Paul Wilson ever explain to the four
or to the three of you that accompanied him why you were throwing
the bomb in the yard or at the residence of Charles Biyant?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir. I don't remember him mentioning anything
about it. However, in my own opinion, I would say that it w^as for the
reason that Mr. Bryant was real active in this work that was done in
the area there by these, what's the name of, now, COFO workers?
Mr. Senner. Civil rights workers?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
2842 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Wliat was the occupation of Bryant, Mr. Wilson ?
Do you remember ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, I don't really know. I think, however, he
worked for the railroad there in McComb. The Illinois Central Rail-
road, I think ; however, I am not sure.
The Chairman. As best as you know, now, from your knowledge,
did you know or did you hear it said that he was a preacher? Bryant?
I am just asking you on that.
Mr. Wilson. I sure didn't.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, will you explain to the committee that
which led up to the second act of violence in which you were arrested
and in which you pleaded guilty ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, I believe we have already established as of
this time we were meeting at another area, outside of McComb there,
at the home of
Mr. Appell. This is the Klavem headed by Paul Wilson ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wliat area were you meeting in, so we can have
clearly whatever is in your mind ?
Mr, Wilson. Well, sir, the meeting place was in an upholstery shop,
in the back of the home of Mr. Gillis.
The Chairman. That's in the city of McComb, or near the city
of McComb?
Mr. Wilson. I believe it's on the
The Chairman. Outskirts?
Mr. Wilson. Outskirts, in a southwesterly direction. However, it
wouldn't be way out of the city limits.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. On what nights did the Paul Wilson Klavern meet?
Mr. Wilson. On Tuesday night, the same nights that we met at
the other Klavem, with the exception of one night, as I recall, we
met on a Wednesday night.
Mr. Appell. Now did you hold a meeting on September 1 ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "What happened at this meeting which led up to the
second charge which you pleaded guilty to?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, at the end of the meeting, on September 1,
1964, Al Lee, I reckon it was Al Lee that wrote some names down on
some stuff, and stuck them in his hat, and said something to the effect
that there was some work that ought to be done in the area.
Mr. Appell. Now let me see if 1 understand this. At the end of
the meeting, Al Lee wrote something on slips of paper, and he put them
in his hat and he said to the members who were there, the members
of the Klavern, members of the United Klans of America, that in this
hat he had put some slips which designated some work or jobs that
had to be done in the area.
Mr. Wilson. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. Will you proceed from there ?
Mr. Wilson. I drew a name out of the hat, which bore the name
of Alyene
Mr. Appell. Quinn?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2843
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, Quinn.
And we decided to do this on a Satnrday nitjht of that week. This
was on a Tuesday, I believe. However, the middle of the week, my
o-randniother wrote a letter to me and said that they would be at my
house on this date. So I told Paul that since they were aoin<>" to be
there, that I wouldn't be able, you know, to do it.
However, he said that he would f!:et some ^uys together, and would
still be done. However, that niaht, on that Saturday night, some-
thing happened, and it wasn't done. And on September the 9th,
which was anotlier meeting there in the upholstery shop, innnediately
after the meeting, Paul told me that he still had the bomb and that he
wanted to explode it or unload it or do something with it.
He mentioned the name of Eev. James Baker. He lived approxi-
mately 8 or D miles east of McComb, and from there, we went to his
home.
Mr. Appell. You went from the meeting place, which was the Gillis
upholstery shop, to Paul Wilson's home?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, the home of Rev. James Baker.
The Chairman. That's not the question. Didn't you ask if he went
to the reverend's home from the upholstery shop ?
Mr. Wilson. I still don't understand. I am sorry.
Mr. Appell. No, Mr. Chairman. I asked him whether or not they
went directly there, or after leaving the meeting at the Gillis up-
holstery shop, did they first go by the home of Paul Wilson.
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, I don't believe. I think we w^ent straight out
to the home of Rev. James Baker.
Mr. Appell. Paul Wilson had the bomb with him when he came to
the meeting?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, as well as I remember.
Mr. Appell. All right, continue.
Mr. Pool, Who was with you at that time?
Mr. Wilson. Sir?
Mr. Pool. Who went with you to the Rev. James Baker's home?
Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson and
Mr. Pool. Paul Wilson?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. He and I were the only ones.
Mr. Pool, Just the two of you?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. We drove by the home of Rev. James Baker
approximately one half a mile, on a little road there, and we backed
up in the road, and returned to his home. Now his home sits a long,
long way off the road. Paul lit the bomb, and I was holding it. As
soon at it was lit, I moved approximately 3 yards, I guess, oil' the road
and lobbed the bomb over in the yard, and we jumped back in the car
and moved out.
The Chairman. Who threw the bomb?
Mr. Wilson. I did.
Mr. Pool. Did the bomb hit near the house ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir ; nowhere near the house.
The Chairman. In the vard ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. Right near the road, in fact.
Mr. Appell. About how far from the house?
The Chairman. Just to the best of your judgment.
2844 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr, Wilson. Thirty yards. Maybe 35. It sets way off the road.
The Chairman. After you threw it, then you immediately jumped
in the car, and lit out ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now before you proceed, did either you or Paul
Wilson have any ^juns in the car with you ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Who had it, and what was it ?
Mr. Wilson. Paul Wilson had a rifle, and to the best of my knowl-
edge, I believe it to be an Enfield model 303. And after we were
in the car and left — this one we heard — and returned back to Mc-
Comb, and he dropped me off at my house, and then on to his
house.
The Chairman. Now did Paul tell you or did you discuss, either
before going; to the reverend's house or on the way there, did you
talk about why you were going to throw a bomb in his yard, or on
the road near his yard ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, I don't remember anything being mentioned
of that, but then again, it would be that he was active in the
The Chairman. COFO activities?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; in the area there of McComb.
Mr. Pool. Did you know whether or not the Klavern had passed
on this act of violence or okayed it or told Paul Wilson to do this?
Did you know whether they ever took action on it, as a Klavern?
Mr. Wilson. The one that we were in at that time ?
Mr. Pool. That was the drawing?
The Chairman. There was no drawing this time, was there?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Pool. No drawing ?
Mr. Wilson. Not on this night. This was one that wasn't used
the week before, and it was left over.
The Chairman. Oh, that was the one that was to have been (hi'own
the Saturday night you mentioned when your grandmother or your
grandparents were coming.
Mr. Wilson. Right.
Mr. Pool. That was for a fellow named Quinn, wasn't it ?
Mr. Wilson. A lady by the name of Alyene Quinn.
Mr. Pool. Whatever happened to that? Are you going to come
to that?
Mr. Appell. Well, he has already testified, Mr. Pool, that because of
a visit from his grandparents, that he withdrew,
Mr. Pool. I understand, but whatever happened to Quinn? They
drew his name. Whatever happened to Quinn ?
Mr. Appell, We will come to it later, sir,
Mr. Pool, All right.
Mr. Appell. All right. Now, Mr. Wilson, the night that the bomb
was thrown into the yard of the Reverend James Baker, this was Sep-
tember the 9th, which Avas the Wednesday night which you earlier
testified was the one occasion when this Klavern met ?
Mr. Wilson. I believe that is correct; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now wliat was the
The ChairjMAn. Reverend what was his name ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2845
Mr. Appell. James Baker.
The Chairjvian. Rev. James Baker was a Negro man?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. What was the composition of the bomb that you threw
that night ? Was it three sticks, or four sticks ?
Mr. Wilson. It was composed of approximately three sticks of
dynamite wrapped up the same way the other one was, white masking
tape.
The Chairman. Now let me ask you, assuming it was three sticks,
or whatever number of sticks, were they wrapped together with tape
or something?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; white masking tape.
The Chairman. Now was there a fuse of some kind ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Of such length that you planned would be long
enough for you to make a getaway before the explosion ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. As to the manufacture of the bomb, these bombs in the
two instances you have now related were supplied by Paul Wilson.
In other words, he was the man that brought them to the scene.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Do you know where Paul Wilson got the bombs?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Is it your belief that Paul Wilson made them him-
self?
Mr, Wilson. I really wouldn't know. I wouldn't want to answer
either way.
The Chairman. Well, that's your right. Just answer to what you
know.
Mr. Appell. All right. Now on the following Tuesday night, Sep-
tember the 15th, did this Klavern that met at Gillis' upholstery shop
also meet?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you on that night have a drawing similar to the
drawing which took place on September 1 ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Will you describe to the committee how this drawing
took place ?
Mr. Wilson. This drawing took place exactly as the other one did,
immediately after the meeting was adjourned. There Al Lee had
some more names in a hat. I was up right near the hat. I reached in
and I drew a name out and Vv'alked to the rear of the building, and
outside, and looked at the name that I had drawn, and the name I had
drawn still bore the name of Alyene Quinn.
I walked back into the meeting area. All the names were out of
the hat. What names were on the others, I don't know.
The Chairman. Well, let me ask you this question, so I can follow
you. Do you know whether in that hat there were other names,
whether other Klansmen drew other names than the one you drew,
the Quinn woman ? Just ansAver to what you know.
Mr. Wilson. I would assume, sir, that there would be other names
written on these
2846 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
The Chairman. Slips?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, slips.
The Chairman. Now do you know whether, in fact, other members
drew other names, or after drawing a name, did you walk out? I just
want to know what you know.
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, I would estimate that there would be ap-
proximately four or five slips in the hat. I drew one out and walked
to the rear of the building. When I returned, they were all gone, so
I would assume that they were drawn.
The Chairman. All right. So you drew the name Quinn twice?
Mr. AViLSON. That is right.
Mr. Appell. Is your knowledge with respect to the slips that were
in the hat on September the 1st the same as your knowledge with respect
to September tne 15th, that there were more than the slip that you
drew ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And in the September 1st, all the slips were drawn.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. With respect to the night of September 1st, did j^ou
learn the identity of any other member of the Klavern as to the job
that he drew ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Within the group, was it not a matter of operational
procedure that one member never discussed with another a job that
he might have drawn, or a job that he might have been on?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Appell. Therefore, the only thing that you know is that follow-
ing the drawing of September 1st and followmg the drawing of Sep-
tember 15th, that there were other bombings or arson in the area?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. But yet you do not know which member of your
Klavern was involved in each of the other bombings ?
Mr. Wilson. That is right. I don't know which one was, or if any
were.
Mr. Appell. Now pick up again with the following of the drawing
of the slip which contained Alyene Quinn's name and what procedures
you followed from there on.
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, after the meeting of September 15, 1964, at
which I drew the name of Alyene Quinn for the second time, immedi-
ately after we were leaving, all of us were leaving the building, I asked
Paul Wilson if he would like to help me, and he said that he would.
Mr. Appell. Now let me interrupt you there, and correct me if I am
wrong. When you drew the slip which contained the name of Alyene
Quimi, it was then your responsibility to carry out the project, or the
job?
Mr. Wilson. That is correct.
Mr. Appell. And it was up to you to select the people that were
going to assist you, if you needed assistance?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Pool. Now just a minute, now. T\n[ien did you get those instruc-
tions? And where?
Mr. Wilson. Well, I don't ever remember receiving any instructions
as to that effect. It was just more or less
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2847
Tlie Chairman. Accepted procedure,
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, accepted or understood.
Mr. Pool. Just talk around the Klavern.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Pool. Wasn't officially spelled out.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr, Appell. Was this procedure, adopted by whatever form it was
adopted, in order to maintain the security of the people who were in-
volved in these ditferent projects?
Mr. Wilson. That is, right.
Mr. Appell. Now you asked Paul Wilson, at the time I interrupted
you, you had asked Paul Wilson if he would help you on this Aylene
Quinn job, and he indicated that he would.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. What happened after that ?
Mr. Wilson. He said that he would. However, if you don't mind,
I would like to go back and
The Chairman. All right ; you do whatever you want.
Mr, Wilson, And bring in something here.
During the meeting on the night of September the loth, 1964, Al Lee
mentioned the fact that Ernest Zeeck. who was a member of the Ray
Smith group, what-have-you, was thinking seriously about, well, how
woiildyou say now, getting out of the Klan, because it seemed that no
one had asked him in on anything. And he, Al, thought that since
he wanted in on a little of the action, you might say, that one of us
ought to ask him.
So, after I asked Paul to help me, I asked him if he knew of anyone
else that might like to, and he said he did — James Wilson. And I
asked him if he would ask him, and he said that he would.
About Wednesday of the next week — no, that was, wait a minute.
The 15th was on Tuesday. Anyway, later on that week
Mr. Appell. The same week ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir, the same week, I saw Paul, and asked him if
he had asked him if he wanted to go with us on this job. He said that
he had asked him and that he would go.
So, going back once more to this meeting again — it seems I never
will get off of it — but going back once more to this meeting on Septem-
ber the 15th, Sterling Gillis said that we should go to his home on
Friday afternoon of that week after the bomb.
Mr. Appell, You should pick up the bomb that you were going to
use at his residence, or at his upholstery shop?
Mr, Wilson. At his home, I guess.
Mr. Pool. Wlio was that, now ?
Mr. Appell. Sterling "Bubba" Gillis.
Now as I understand it, the upholstery shop was in a building that
was in the rear of his home ; is that right ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. However, on the day that we were — that I
was supposed to go to his home after this bomb, I love to hunt, so I
was off in the woods there hunting, and I got in late. So I waited 'til
Sunday morning, September the 20th, 1964, and I went by the home
of Paiil Wilson and asked him if he wanted to ride out with me after
it, and he did.
2848 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
We went to the home there, and there was someone at his home there
from out of State, or out of the area there, and he said that Al Lee
liad the bomb over at his home and for us to go there after it.
Mr. Appell. Now when we talk about Al Le^, we are talking about
Emery Allen Lee, who is known by the nickname of Al ?
Mr. WiLsox. I reckon that would be the same one; yes, sir.
From there we droA^e to the home of Al Lee and went in and asked
him there for the bomb, and he let us have it and put it in a brown
bag or a sack.
Mr. Appell. Like a grocery sack ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now where did Al Lee have this bomb ?
Mr. Wilson. It was in his dining room, I guess you would say. It
was a place in the wall of his home where j'ou lifted up this lid, and
he readied down in.
Mr. Appell. In other words, he had it concealed in a hiding place
in the dining room of his home.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. In the wall or the floor ?
Mr. Wilson. In the wall. A cabinet was made into the wall, and
he lifted up the lid on it, and it was in there.
Mr. Appell. Was anyone present at Emery Allen Lee's home at the
time you picked up the bomb from him ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; Mr. Hilton Dunaway.
Mr. Appell. "\^niom you also knew to be a member of the same Klav-
ern that you were, and who also accompanied you on the night that
the residence of Charles Bryant was bombed ?
Mr. Wilson. That is correct. After we had received the bomb
The Chairman. And on what day of the week was that ?
Mr. Wilson. That was Sunday, September the 20th.
The Chairman. All right. Go on, in your own way.
Mr. Wilson. After we had received the bomb and had it wrapped
up in a bag, I went out and laid the bomb in the rear of my car, down
on the floor. From there, we went to the home of Ernest Zeeck, who
lived on the comer of Fifth and Missouri, in McComb.
Mr. Pool. Now he was a member of the Ray Smith Klavern,
wasn't he ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes. We got out and went into his home and asked
him — first we asked him was it true that what we had heard that he
was getting ready to
Mr. Senner. Resign?
Mr. Wilson. Resign, you might say. And he said "Yes," and we
asked him the reason why, and he said because that he hadn't been
asked, you know, to help on anything. So we told him that if he
Avanted to, that he could ride along with us that night, and asked him
if he wanted to, which he said he would.
However, we did not let him know what was going to happen, or
where or who or anything, you know, to that effect. So he accepted,
and we left and got back to my car and drove to the home of Mr.
James Wilson.
The Chairman. Now who left ?
Mr. Wilson. Paul Wilson and me.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2849
The Chairman. You didn't bring Zeeck with you ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
]\Ir. Wilson. However, we told Zeeck that we would meet him at
his home at approximately 6 o'clock that night. So Paul and I got
back into my car and drove to the home of James Wilson, who wasn't
home at this time. His wife said he was going down to his oil station
there and said he ought to be back any minute. We waited outside
for hhn, and in about 5 minutes, I would estimate, that he returned
home.
We asked him if he wanted to ride out by the home of Alyene and
look over the area there, on the layout, and see if we could arrive at
any idea how it ought to be done, so he said that he did. So Paul and
Jimmy and myself got into my car, and we drove to her home and
looked it over and returned home, back to James Wilson's house.
Well, it was about this time that we thought, since this was going
to be done that night, that we ought to have an excuse or an alibi if
anything hapj^ened. So we decided we would meet on the river bank
that night, about 8 or 9 miles out of McComb out there
The Chairman. Before you arrive at that point, before going to
the river bank or the creek bank, did you all buy some food, or
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; I am on my way to that.
The Chairman. Are you coming to that? All right.
Mr. Appell. On what river and at what location were you going to
establish your alibi?
Mr. Wilson. The river is called Bogue Chitto River, and it is at a
spot known as Hoover's Bridge.
So we went back to the James Wilson house. He said that lie would
bring the lines and the bait and everything that we needed there for
an alibi, so we let him off. Paul — and I dropped liim off at his house,
and I went on home. About 4 or about 5 o'clock tliat afternoon, I
guess, my wife and I and my small son drove into McComb, where
I went to the home of Paul Wilson. From there he said that lie would
use his automobile that night in the action that would be taken. I
transferred the bomb from my car to the trunk of his car, and we
went into the house and we got two weapons. I believe tliere was a
16-gauge over-and-under shotgun, and again this Enfield rifle, model
303. We wrapped them up in an OD Army blanket and stuck them
into his automobile, in the rear of it, in the trunk, and from there Ave
went to the home of Ernest Zeeck.
We got him and went to a small store, where we obtained some milk
and some stuff to eat that night.
However, I would like to go back here and say that James Wilson
said that he would meet us that night, out there; that he would leave
on earlier in the afternoon and go out and have everything, you know.
ready the hooks and everything in the water.
After we had bought some food, Zeeck and Paul and myself went
out to the river, and we sat around that night and we ate what we had
bought and we sat around and laid out what was going to happen,
and what each one of us would do on it. We decided that James
Wilson would drive the automobile, and I would ride in the front right-
hand side, as a guard, using the 16-gauge over-and-under shotgun.
Paul would light the fuse, sitting in the lefthand side, in the rear, and
2850 ACTmTiES of ku klux klan in the U.S.
Ernest Zeeck would, I tliink they used the word, it would be his honor,
you mi^ht say, since it was
The Chairman. It was his first job.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; that he would have the honors.
Tlie Chairman. Would throw?
Mr. Wilson. That is right. After we had worked it all out, all of
it out, we left the riverside at approximately 10 minutes to 10 that
night, which we estimated the time that you might say the action
would happen would be around 10 that night.
The Chairman. By the way, did you do any actual fishing, either
true or as an alibi, did you throw any lines in?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; we had lines and baits and everything out
there. No fish was caught, though.
The Chairman. Didn't catch any fish.
Mr. Wilson. So about 10 minutes to 10, as I say, we all loaded up in
Paul Wilson's automobile, in our right spots, and during the morning
we had observed that the road that runs by Alyene's home runs, I
believe it runs north and south, to the best of my recollection.
We came in the back way on it, and there was a road about, I would
say, a block down from her home that made a loop, more or less, and
a road let us out a block, about a block — let's see — south of the home. So
what we had decided to do was about — we would drive this road here,
down north of her home, take it on around to a block in the other
direction, where, when the bomb was released, and stuff, that we would
be headed out of the area, away from it.
So it was agreed. We did this and we traveled this route about
four or five different times, because every time we went around, there
would be someone walking up the road or there would be an automobile
behind us or we would be — anyway, something always happened that
it wasn't opportune at that time.
Well, finally we made a round, and everything was all right. Just
before we reached her home, James Wilson switched off the lights on
the car. We rolled up there by her house, in front of it, stopped the
car. I opened the door and got about halfway out of the car, and the
door was about halfway open, and I laid the shotgun on the door and
Paul lit the fuse. Zeeck had his door open, and as it lit, he popped
out of the car and took about one or two steps, and up in the yard
it went.
We jumped back in the car and we had gone about 25 yards, I
guess, and just as we switched the lights back on there was a Negro
male, I would say in his late teens or early 20's, who was walking on
the right-hand side of the road there, and meeting us, and it was real
dark that night, and just as the lights was on, and the lights went
right on him.
That wasn't any time there to stop, so we kept right on going. It
is approximately )^ miles into Summit, and just before we reached there
we heard this loud explosion. We got back on this road that led
back out to there to the river, and once we reached the river we set
fire to the bag that it was in, Avent down to the river bank and got all
the lines up, and loaded up and James Wilson and I got back in his
car, and Paul and Zeeck took their car, and Ave went on back home.
Paul followed James and I to his home, where I got out of James
Wilson's car and got in the one with Paul, and from there we drove
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2851
to the home of Ernest Zeeck, let him out, went to the home of Paul
Wilson, and we <;ot out.
I went into the house and I ^ot my little boy, who was asleep, and
my wife and I went home and went to bed that night, and that's about
all I can tell you.
The Chairman. Let me ask you : Wliat type of dynamite did you
use? How many, and Avas it the same kind of operation?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, the type, I don't know what type it was,
but it was
The Chairman. Well, about how many sticks were there?
Mr. Wilson. Well, the bomb consisted of, I would say, from 12 to
14 sticks of dynamite, something to that effect. It was about 8 or 9
inches around, all wrapped together, and held together by this white
tape.
The Chairman. Again, you had some kind of a fuse of such a length
to give you an opportunity to get away before the detonation.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. I would estimate the fuse that I saw was
approximately 18 inches long.
The Chairman. As a matter of fact, it was, did I understand you
to say, about 3 miles of your travel before you heard the explosion?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; approximately 3 miles. And that was driv-
ing real fast.
The Chairman. Real fast.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wliat kind of car was it?
Mr. Wilson. We used Paul Wilson's car. It was a black '61 Ford.
The Chairman. And you really gave her the gun ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Let me ask this question : Who did you say threw^ this
last bomb ?
Mr. Wilson. Ernest Zeeck.
Mr. Pool. I thought you said that Paul
Mr. Wilson. He lit it.
Mr. Pool. Then he handed it to Ernest Zeeck ; is that it ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir; Ernest Zeeck— —
Mr. Pool. Was holding it?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now^, I asked you this : Did you at any time during
that meeting at the river bank or on the w^ay to the house of this col-
ored woman discuss why you were doing this job ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir; but there again, she w^as well known in the
area for, you know, being active in this
The Chairman. Civil rights and COFO operation ?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Pool. What did you all expect to accomplish by throwing this
bomb at Alyene Quimi's house?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, let's see if I can give you a suitable answer.
I can only speak for my own self in there. So as far as I am concerned,
these bombs or anything to that effect was done to, you might say, let
them know that we knew and that we wouldn't — that I wouldn't want
to hurt anyone, but to give them
The Chairman. To frighten, to terrorize.
2852 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Wilson. That is right. To frighten. I wouldn't want anyone
hurt.
Mr. Pool. In other words, none of your group — or, well, you are
speaking for yourself — didn't expect tlie bomb to injure anyone.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Pool. So you didn't throAv it riglit up to the liouse. You threw
it in the yard.
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, the bomb was of such size and weiglit, even
tliough the house was right near the street, it was up on a higli bank,
you might say, or embankment, and if you wanted it in the house, you
couldn't have got it there anyway.
Mr. Pool. Why didn't you stop the car when you saw the colored
boy on the road there, and warn him
The Chairman. This is a bomb. That is the other bombing you are
talking about, when you saw the boy ?
Mr. Wilson. You mean Alyene.
Mr. Pool. At Alyene Quinn's you say you saw a boy on the road at
Alyene Quinn's, as you drove off. Is that correct ?
Mr. Wilson. That is correct.
Mr. Pool. Why didn't you stop the car and warn him about the
bomb there, if you say that you didn't intend to injure anyone?
Mr. Wilson. The thought never entered my mind.
Mr. Pool. How far was he from the bomb when you saw him?
Mr. Wilson. Oh, he was about a half block.
Mr. Pool. Was he walking toward Alyene Quimi's house?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. About half a block away. He could have probably made
it in time, if he was going to her house.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pool. Did he ^et injured, do you know ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appbll. Mr. Wilson, did you ever return to the Quinn resi-
dence for the purpose of deteraiining the damage which was done by
that bomb?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, for the record, I would like to place in
the record at this point a series of photographs which show the dam-
age to the Quinn residence.
The Chairman. All previous documents referred to and exhibited
and these i^hotographs will be introduced in the record.
(Photographs marked "Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 1" appear on
pp. 2853 and 2854:)
Mr. Pool. Let me ask you one further question : ^Yhy did you in-
crease the size of the bomb on Alyene Quinn's bombing when you went
out to her house ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, I didn't increase it. I had nothing to do
with it. It was already made when I
Mr. Pool. On your previous bombings, I think you said you had
three sticks of dynamite. On Alyene Quinn's bombing you had 12 or
1 5 sticks tied together. Is that correct ?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Pool. Well, then, the 12 or 15 sticks did all this damage that
has been introduced here in evidence.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
2853
The Chairman. I would say from these photographs that it
wreaked such havoc to the house that if no one who was in it was in-
jured, it was a miracle.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson
The Chairman. Was there someone injured ?
Mr. Appell. No, sir.
Early in October, were you and others, as a result of investigative
eti'ort on the part of Mississippi law enforcement officers, arrested ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. At the time of your arrest, did you still have in your
pocket the slip which you drew from the hat at the Klavem meeting
on the night of September 15 ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, I show you a reproduction of the words
contained on that slip. Although this is not the original slip, because
as I imderstand your testimony that was a green slip, would you tell
me whether that is a reproduction of the language as contained on the
slip?
(Document handed to witness.)
Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 1
2854 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
i*'^.''^i?v:i
Photographs showing bomb damage to Alyene Quinn residence, McComb, Miss.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2855
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
(Document marked "Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 2 follows:)
Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 2
^c^
Mr. Appell. Do you know whether or not that writing is in the
hand of Emery Allen Lee ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you know that Emery Allen Lee, from whose
home you picked up the bomb, while in military service, had a period
of duty at Aberdeen Proving Ground and received training in demo-
lition?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Pool. I didn't get the last question. What did you say ?
Mr. Appell. I asked him whether he had knowledge that Emery
Allen Lee, while in the Army, had a tour of duty at Aberdeen Proving
Gromid and was trained in demolition.
The Chairman. Mr. Appell, will you describe the exhibit with some
writing on it that you showed the witness? Say, for the record,
what it is.
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir ; I will.
Mr. Chairman, the slip contained the name "Alyene Quinn, 304 Old
Summit Road, South of the Border Night Club."
The Chairman. And there is a police notation on that piece of paper
saying that this slip
Mr. Appell. Was found in the pocketbook of Billy Wilson at the
time of his arrest.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, did you cooperate fully with the Missis-
sippi Highway Patrol and other law^ enforcement agencies with re-
spect to your involvement in these ailairs ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. In addition to your arrest, did these agencies also ar-
rest Paul Dewey Wilson ?
Mr, Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Jimmy Prinston Wilson ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Ernest F. Zeeck?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Sterling H. "Bubba" Cxi 11 is?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Hilton Dunaway ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 34
2856 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. Jon Paul Westbrook ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Charles Averj'- Womack ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Gerald Lawrence?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And Emery Allen Lee?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you know each of them to be a moinber of the
Klavern to which you were assigned, of which Paul Wilson was tlie
exalted cyclops?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. What position did the L"inited Klans of America, of
which you were all members in good standing, take after your arrest?
Mr. Wilson. Well, Mr. Appell, to the best of my knowledge I don't
know of anything they done. Just let us sit there.
Mr. Appell. Did they obtain counsel for you?
Mr. Wilson. They didn't obtain counsel for me; no, sir.
Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, did they obtain counsel for any-
one?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did they at any time assist you or any of the other
members financially ?
Mr. WiLvSON. Well, sir, while I was in jail at Magnolia, Mississippi,
Rev. J. C. Brown came there to visit us, and he
Mr. Appell. Now, he was the man that you knew as the kludd of
the Klavern which Ray Smith was the exalted cyclops of?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Appeij:.. Your first Klavern.
Mr. Wilson. He said that he had $1,100. He didn't say where he
got it, but he had it, and I believe that there was 11 of us arrested, and
he said he had $100 for each of us.
He phoned my wife up and told her about it, and my wife was real
leery, anyway, of him, so she never went over after it. However, after
I received my sentence and was released, I went over after it and got
$100.
At the time of my release and sentence on the misdemeanor charge,
to which I pled
Mr. Appell. Nolo contendere ?
Mr. WiKSON. Yes, sir, nolo contendere, I was sentenced to 6 months
in jail and a $500 fine. This 6 months was to be suspended, and the
$500 fine had to be paid within a week's time, plus the cost of court,
which was $78. So all told, I had to get hold of $578, 1 believe, is the
right amount.
About Wednesday of that week Brother Brown sent word to me for
me to stop over at his home, which I did. He gave me $250, which was
half of my fine, and also gave me $78, which was all the costs of the
court. That, as far as I knew then, I was just about in the same shape
as I was in before, because I didn't have the money, you know, to match
the other, for the half of it.
So my granddad — I might say he is a real nice guy — let me have the
other half of the money, which I went down immediately the next after-
noon from work, and I paid all my fines and everything.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2857
Mr. AprELL. What about the fee that you had to pay for an attorney
to defend you in this action ('
Mr. Wilson. My aunts and imcles, and what little money I had, they
all went together and tried for a lawyer, and I think they asked about
two, I think, and finally womid up with Mr. L. S. McClaren. As a re-
tamer, he said he had to have $500, which they all went together and
made up the money, and they didn't have it, and he was my lawyer.
Mr. Appell. So that of the $500 that you had to pay your attorney
and the $500, plus court costs, that you were fined, the United Klans of
America, of which you were a formal member and for which you en-
gaged in these acts as a result of action formally taken within a Klavem
chamber, paid then $100, 1 guess, toward your attorney fees, one-half of
your fine in the amount of $250, and the $78 court costs, or a total of
$428.
Mr. Wilson. As far as I know, that money that was raised that we
received was raised right there, you know, in town, by — it may be some
members that were in the Klan, but I imagine there was a lot of them
that wasn't in the Klan that let us have some money. So far as I laiow,
to actually say that I received money, I can't, because I don't know.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, during the committee's investigation
into Georgia, the committee obtained a document signed by Calvin
Craig, the Grand Dragon for Georgia, which made an appeal to mem-
bers of the Klan in Georgia for financial help for Mr. Wilson and his
other codefendants. That message, signed over the name of Calvin
Craig, the Grand Dragon, said that these people were not Klansmen,
to the best of Mr. Craig's knowledge, but that they were innocent of
any wrong and the Klan wanted to help them.
I think the record should show, from Mr. Wilson's testimony, that
these men were, in fact, members of the United Klans of America and
that the action of Mr. Craig could have been no more than just deceit
upon the United Klans of America in the Realm of Georgia.
The Chairman. Mr. Appell, when you were conducting an investiga-
tion in the field, did you interview Mr. Robert F. Shelton ?
Mr. Appell. I did, sir.
The Chairman. In the course of your interview, did you make in-
quiry as to whether this young man, Mr. Wilson, and the other Mc-
Comb people convicted of violence along with Mr. Wilson were mem-
bers of the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. I interviewed Imperial Wizard Shelton in
his offices in Tuscaloosa on April 14, 1965, and I brought up the inci-
dent in McComb, by reference to a newspaper article which claimed
that one of the men arrested had a card of membership in the United
Klans of America in his possession. Mr. Shelton advised me that
the card that the man had in his possession was not a membership card,
but was a calling card like salesmen handed out, and that this is all
the coimection that these men had with the United Klans of America.
Wlien I asked Mr. Shelton pointblank whether or not these men
were, he denied that they were, and when I told him that we could es-
tablish the fact tliat they were, he then referred me to the Grand
Dragon of Mississippi, E. L. McDaniel.
Mr. Pool. Now, I want to ask you about, in the course of your in-
vestigation, what type of appeal was made for funds for Billy Wilson's
defense ?
2858 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Appell. We know of no solicitation of funds for Billy Wilson's
defense, but
Mr. Pool. The 11 men.
Mr. Appell. We know about the solicitation by the Grand Dragon
of Georofia.
The Chairman. Crai<j.
Mr. Appell. Craig;, Calvin F. Crai^y, and we know in connection
with our investio;ation into Louisiana that a check was written by the
Realm of Louisiana to E. L. McDaniels, the Grand Dragon of Mis-
sissippi, marked "Defense Fund." Whether that money was ear-
marked for the defense of Mr. Wilson and the others, the investigation
leaves a question mark.
Mr. Pool. Were there any letters sent out soliciting funds for the
defense fund?
Mr. Appell. Other than the letter I referred to sent out by Calvin
Craig, we possess no additional knowledge.
Tlie Chairman. You have no investigative knowledge that any of
the funds solicited apparently throughout Mississippi by the — what is
the name of that group ?
Mr. Appell. The White Christian Protective and Legal Defense
Fund.
The Chairman. Do you have any knowledge that any of the funds —
which, by the way, was a secret Klan operation, in fact — but what I
am asking you is, do you have any investigative knowledge that any of
the funds of that particular "Defense Fund" were used in connection
with the case in which this witness was involved ?
Mr. Appell. We do not have, sir, and I might point out that the
White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund was an instru-
mentality of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi,
an autonomous Klan group, which was in competition with the LTnited
Klans of America for membership.
The Chairman. Well, I might say that it has come to my knowl-
edge in connection with other matters that this is not the first de-
fendant involved in Klan prosecution of an activity who was left in tlie
lurch and not provided with funds or counsel in connection with their
defense.
Did Mr. Shelton or Mr. Sam Bowers or high officials of the Klan
organizations in Mississippi ever visit you or talk to you and say,
"We are for you; we are going to help you out," and all of this stuff?
Mr. Wilson. I have never laid eyes on them.
Mr. Pool. In your course of investigation, the Calvin Craig letter
you referred to a while ago, did that go through the mails ?
Mr. Appell. I possess no direct knowledge, but I see no other method
by which it could be distributed as generally as it was throughout
Georgia.
Mr. Wilson, 1 hand you a photography and ask you if the person
you see on two profiles is the Jimmy Wilson about whom you have
testified.
(Pliotograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show you a photograph and ask you if that individ-
ual is the Ernest Zeeck about whom you have testified.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2859
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show yon a photograph and ask yon if this is Mnrphy
John Dnncan abont wliom yon have testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show yon a photograph and ask you if this is Paul
Dewey Wilson abont whom yon have testified.
(Photograph lianded to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. ,
Mr. Appell. I show yon a photograph and ask yon if this is the
photograph of the 1950 Ford owned by Pan! Dewey Wilson in whicli
yon went on several jobs that yon have described.
(Photograph handed to w'itness.)
Mr. Wii^ON. That is a 1961 Ford.
Mr. Appell. Or 1961. I ask that the record be corrected.
I hand you a photograph and ask yon if this is the Sterling Lewis
Gill's, better known as "Bubba" Gillis, about whom you have testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I hand you a photograph and ask you if this is Emery
Allen Lee about whom yon have testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show you a photograph and ask you if this is the
Hilton Dunaway about whom you have testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. And I show yon a photograph and ask yon if this is
the Jon — spelled J-o-n — Paul Westbrook about whom you have
testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show you a photograph and ask you if this is the
Gerald R. Lawrence about whom you have testified.
(Photograph handed to wdtness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. I show you a photograph and ask you if this is the
Charles A. Womack about whom you have testified.
(Photograph handed to witness.)
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
(Photographs marked "Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 3'' and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, other than the people that we have iden-
tified, in the course of your membership with the Paul Wilson Klavern,
as we will call it, because he was the EC, did you know Ed Wilkins
to be a member of that Klavern?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Did you ever hear testimony that because Mr. Wilkins
was in the oil business that he had access to explosives?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. AppETiL. Do yon possess any knowledge whether any of the
explosives used were ever obtained from Ed Wilkins?
2860 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr, Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Now, Mr. Wilson, after your arrest, or after you
received your sentence, probation, were you ever advised by anyone
as to your status as a member of the United Klans of America?
Mr. WiLsoisr. Yes, sir. A day or so after we was released from
jail and sentenced, Mr. Jody — what's, the name? — Greenlee informed
me that the Klan had had a meeting, and I presume that this was
the Klan in which Ray Smith was EC, since he was a member of
that organization.
Mr. Appell. You knew Jody Greenlee to be a member of the Klav-
ern that Ray Smith was exalted cyclops of ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "VYhat did Mr. Greenlee tell you ?
Mr. Wilson. He said that they had held a meeting, and since we
were sentenced to 5 years that we would be suspended from the Klan
for that length of time.
Mr. Appell. What he advised you was not that you were banished,
but, rather, that you were suspended for the period of time that you
were under probation.
Mr. AVilson. That is the way I understood it ; yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Following your arrest on, I think it was, October
2, 1964?
Mr. Wilson. 3d.
Mr. Appell. October 3, 1964, have you ever attended a meeting of
a Klavem of the United Klans of America or any other Klan orga-
nization ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, if you had to lead your life over again,
would you become a member of a Klan organization?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir; I sure wouldn't. I might add that I would
advise or try to talk anyone else from doing so. In my own opinion,
other organizations — and these are just out of the hat, you might say,
at random — like SNCC and NAACP and other groups, they feed on
things that they do, and on tlie other hand, the Klan. it does just the
same thing. The Klan — I don't know, I don't like it. The actions
that it has, or anything about it, I don't like.
I don't condone, and like I say, if I had it all to do over again, I
would never be a member of any organization like this, any Klan or-
ganization.
Mr. Appell. Because of the oath that you took of secrecy, the ob-
ligation of membership, do you feel that when you are asked to go
on these jobs that you had to?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. If you had not been a member of a Klan organization
and someone had approached you to go on a bombing mission, would
you have done it?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, may I have a moment?
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, at the time you joined the Klan, were you
given a document "Fifty Reasons "\Yhy You Should Be a Member of
the Original Ku Klux Klan" ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2861
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, because that document is already in
the record, I shall not reintroduce it at this time. (See Murry Martin
Exhibit No. 14, p. 2389.)
Mr. Wilson, I hand you a report of Investigator Sullivan which
sets forth certain phrases and expressions that appeared on a piece
of paper found in the possession of Emery Allen Lee at the time he
■was arrested. I ask you to examine these phrases and words which
appear to me to be some kind of code designations and tell us if you
possess any knowledge with respect to any of the entries.
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
(Document marked "Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 4" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, in addition to the Eay Smith Klavern, do
you possess knowledge of other Klavcrns of the United Klans of
America in McComb, Mississippi?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. "Wliat would be your statement as to the total Klan
membership in McComb? In trying to work this out with Investiga-
tor Sullivan, did you arrive at an estimate of somewhere around 350
members ?
Mr. Wilson. I believe I did. '
Mr. Appell. All right. Now, when you formed the new Klavern
under the leadership of Paul Wilson, did you give it a name other
than Klan which we have described as a cover name ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Appell. By what name, or what name did you assign this new
group ?
Mr. Wilson. The name that was assigned to this new group w^as
called South Pike Marksmanship Association.
Mr. Appell. South Pike, P-i-k-e, Marksmanship Association.
Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of Mr.
Wilson.
The Chairman. Mr. Wilson, Mr. Sullivan told me, the investigator
of this committee, that when you were called to appear before this
committee in public session — I might say that you had already ap-
peared in executive session — you expressed the hope, at least, that it
would be on a day when no other Klansmen were subpenaed to testify.
In that correct ?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
The Chairman. Well, I can't guarantee you that no Klansmen are
in town today, but you are the only witness before this committee
today, and I want to tell you that whatever fears you have, I think
you can forget about them. There is a lot of barking. It is like a
barking dog. I doubt that members of the Klan are going to make
any more than noise when it comes to witnesses that appear before
this committee.
I am glad that you got out of this outfit. You have acknowledged
that what you did was wrong. On the other hand, you had the
stamina and the courage and the guts, after having done it and after
being arrested, to face the music and to face the court, to tell the truth,
and to plead guilty.
2862 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
I know from what has come to me, and from your previous appear-
ance, that you have undergone great distress, you and your wife, your
child, and particularly your parents. For all that, for getting out of
it, for acknowledging that it was wrong, for your appearance here,
voluntary appearance under oath, and telling it all, I certainly con-
gratulate you, and I want to tell you that we are deeply appreciative.
You and others like you, I suspect — I hope, I am confident — will be
the vehicle for many others to take that attitude from here on.
I tell you that there is a Federal law which makes it a very serious
offense to do anything to you, and I would say the law would be mean-
ingless unless it applied also to people such as your family, because
you have appeared. If there is anything tliat does happen, and my
guess is that it is 100-to-l notliing will happen, just report the inci-
dent to us.
I know you are under severe, the most severe probationary sentence
I have read, and it is tough, but glory to you. I thank you.
Mr. Pool. I want to join in what the chairman just said and also
tell you, Mr. Wilson, that I am also a member of the Post Office and
Civil Service Committee, and the testimony that you have given here
today will be helpful. I am going to ask the postal inspectors to look
into the matter of the letter that was mailed in Georgia.
I understand the information I have that most of the Klansmen in
Georgia received this letter, and in view of the fact that the defense
fund wasn't forthcoming, I want to ask the postal inspectors to check
the mailings and things like that, which they hav^e the facilities to do,
and see if any Federal law has been violated in that regard, raising
money for your defense that you never did receive from the Grand
Dragon of Georgia.
Mr. Buchanan. I just want to join the chairman in thanking you
for your testimony and congratulating you for your decision to dis-
associate yourself with this organization. I appreciate your courage
in testifying here today. We appreciate it.
The Chairman. Mr. Senner?
Mr. Senner. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to join with my
other colleagues on the committee to commend you for resigning from
this organization. It is too bad you didn't have the knowledge not to
join in the first instance, but this is looking back in retrospect. I
would like to ask you just a couple of questions.
In your meetings, when a job is decided after the meetings, were
the victims or the individuals whose names appeared on the slip dis-
cussed in the Klan meetings ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. Well, who would determine these names, to your
knowledge ? Would it be Paul Wilson ?
Mr. Wilson. The names that I drew out of this hat, as I told Mr.
Appell, that it was Al Lee's hat, and I reckon it was he that wrote the
names down. How he arrived at these names, or anything to that
effect, I don't know.
Mr. Senner. In other words, the members didn't even have an op-
portunity to discuss the pros and cons of the bombings; is that right?
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Senner, Wlien you received this money from J. C. Brown, the
kludd, did he inform you of where the money came from ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2863
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. Did he tell you how he came into possession of the
money ^
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. What is J. C. Brown's occupation 'i
Mr. Wilson. He is a minister.
Mr. Senner. What would you estimate his income to be, per annum ?
Mr. Wilson. I don't know.
Mr. Senner. Well, do you think he would have this money from his
own personal funds, or would he have to get it from outside sources?
Mr. Wilson. I believe it would be from outside sources. Sympa-
tliizers.
INIr. Senner. Would you take the admonition, that given to you by
Jody Greenlee, I believe it was, who said that you were out of the Klan
during the period of your probation, as an indication on his part that
the Klan felt that you were too hot to handle and that you might em-
barrass them in some way ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir, I
Mr. Senner. Or was it because of some oath or requirement on the
part of the Klan ?
Mr. Wilson. I dont remember anything in the oath about that. I
dont know about me being all that hot to handle, or anything like that,
but at this time, that he told me, it didn't make me mad. I mean, I
was
Mr. Senner. In other words, you wanted out anyway.
Mr. Wilson. That is right.
Mr. Senner. But the point is, what did he say to you in regard to
being out of the Klan during the suspended sentence?
Mr. Wilson. Well, sir, he said that they had had a meeting, some-
time, while we were in, or right after we were released, and it was de-
cided that for the period that we were on this deal that we got here
that we would be suspended from the Klan, for 5 years.
Mr. Senner. Did he give you any specific reason why ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. I am going to turn it over to my colleague, Mr.
Buchanan.
Mr. Appell. Mr. Senner, if I might comment on the questions that
you asked, it is the public pronouncement of the Imperial Wizard
of the United Klans of America, Robert Shelton, that if any Klans-
man is arrested that he is suspended and then after conviction, if he
should be convicted, he is then supposed to be banished.
Mr. Shelton does this in order to try to emphasize that his Klan is
a nonviolent organization.
Mr. Senner. I agree with you, Mr. Appell, that this is his public
statement, but I don't believe the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Shelton.
But I would like to state, too, what the chairman said, that if any-
body molests you or your family, let this Congress know, please.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Wilson, in your opinion, were you suspended
because you committed the act which you were assigned in a Klan meet-
ing, or because you were apprehended and convicted?
Mr. Wilson. In my own opinion, the reason I was suspended — and
here, again, I would like to point out I think they used the wrong word
2864 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
in this by saying that I was suspended, I tliink wliat lie meant was, I
was out. However, that is not the word that he used — was because I
went up there before the judge and I said that I was guilty, and I took
all my medicine.
The Chairman. In other words, it is your idea that what really
caused your suspension was not so mucli that you had performed those
acts, but that you had freely talked about them.
Mr. Wilson. Thatisriglit.
Mr. Buchanan. Thank you.
The Chairman. I am inclined to agree with you.
Mr. Senner. Me, too.
Mr. Buchanan. Me, too.
The Chairman. Anything else ?
Mr. Appeul,. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that
following the drawing of the slips from the hat on the night of
September 1st that there were five series of bombings or five separate
bombings which took place in the McComb area on September 7th,
6 days later, and I wish the record also to show that while Mr. Wilson
has no provable knowledge, first-hand knowledge in some of the acts
engaged in by Klansmen, that in executive session Mr. Wilson has
given us the full benefit of understandings that he has in these other
matters.
Mr. Senner. Don, I might add, weren't there five slips drawn from
the hat, too, on that day ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. There is a coincidence.
Mr. Pool. I want to reiterate that the record should show Mr. Billy
Wilson has been very cooperative with our staff, at the executive session
and here today in the public session.
The Chairman. I will say again that, in my opinion, nothing will
happen to you, but the Federal law we talked about says that if any-
thing should happen to you, you have the protection of that law^, you
or members of your family. I don't think the law would make any
sense if it didn't say that. I haven't read it specifically with that in
mind, but if anything happens to you, the child, your wife, your par-
ents, or anyone because of your appearance, just let us know.
Mr. Pool. And that includes threats, also.
The Chairman. All right ?
The committee will stand in recess until February 1, and may I
say in that connection there are a number of reasons for that. In the
first place, we, the members of this committee, are members of other
committees. Bills are being, or certainly will shortly be, referred to
these other committees. Some of them have not thus far even reor-
ganized, committee- wise, I am talking about, for this second session,
and then more immediately, we understand, or I understand, that cer-
tain measures will be coming up on the floor during that period of
time, including contempt citations for which this committee will have
to prepare, and in addition thereto, simply as an example, I have to
appear, I think this Aveek — tomorrow, I believe — before the House
Administration Committee in connection with matters involving this
committee.
It is a question of things going on, the business of Congress, the
business of the Members, committee membership, and so on.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2865
I thought I should explain that before questions are asked as to the
reasons why we are now standing in recess until February 1. In the
meantime, of course, investigation continues at all times, whether we
are meeting or not meeting.
Things have to be veritied, evidence has to be gathered, our com-
mittee investigation methods have to be tested, but all those things
go on. That doesn't mean to say that our staff and the members wdl
not have their hands full during that period.
So the committee stands in recess until February 1 at 10 a.m.
(Members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and Buchanan,
of the subcommittee, and also Representative Senner.)
CWHiereupon, at 12 :35 p.m., Tuesday, January 18, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, February 1, 1066.)
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES
Part 3
FRIDAY, JANUARY 28, 1966
United States House or Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D.C.
PUBLIC hearing
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as
reconstituted for the January 28 hearing, met, pursuant to recess,
at 2:20 p.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building,
Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of
Louisiana, chairman; George F. Senner, Jr., of Arizona; and John
M. Ashbrook, of Ohio.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Senner,
and Ashbrook. Also present. Representative Buchanan.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; and Philip R. Man-
uel, investigator.
The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.
As chairman of the full Committee on Un-American Activities, I
hereby constitute, as a subcommittee for the purpose of this afternoon's
hearing, the following: Myself as chairman, Mr. Ashbrook, of Ohio,
and Mr. Senner, of the State of Arizona, meaning that from here on
two of the three will constitute a quorum.
We now have a quorum of the regular subcommittee so we are over-
quorumed.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this time
Mr. George Williams.
The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear, sir, that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Williams. I do.
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE LEONARD WILLIAMS
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, your full name for the record, please ?
Mr. Williams. George Leonard Williams.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Williams. In Lenoir County, Kinston, North Carolina.
Mr. Manuel. What date, sir ?
2867
2868 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Williams. November 26, 1920.
Mr. Manuel. Are you appearing before the committee this after-
noon in response to a subpena served upon you by committee Investiga-
tor Neil Wetterman on the 26th of January, 1966 ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Williams, I see you have no lawyer.
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you desire a lawyer ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
The Chairman. Now, I must tell you that the rule of this commit-
tee is that, whether or not one has a lawyer, he is entitled, if he wants
to, to invoke the fifth amendment. Do you understand that ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You have that right if you want it.
All right, proceed.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, are you currently a resident of the city
of Greenville, North Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been a member of the Realm of North
Carolina of the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Will you please tell the committee when you first
joined the United Klans of America in North Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. I joined the Klan July 28, 1965.
Mr. Manuel. How did you happen to become a member of the
Realm of North Carolina UKA ?
Mr. Williams. I was at a rally that was held in Farmville and I
obtained an application card there and filled it out and handed it in
totheKlavern.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, why did you join the United Klans of
America ?
Mr. Williams. In the speeches that was made at the rally, the Klan
was out for politician reasons, you know — men in office work to get
the color and all out of the schools and kind of work to — get the col-
ored out of the schools and keep the races from mixing and kind of
hold down the colored from mixing in the South.
Mr. Manuel. Are you currently a member of the United Klans of
America or any other Klan organization in the State of North
Carolina?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Wlien did you sever your membership in the United
Klans?
Mr. Williams. About mid-November.
Mr. Manuel. So then you were a member, an active member of the
United Klans of America from approximately July 28 until mid-
November of 1965 ; is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. That is right, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Now, what unit of the Realm of North Carolina,
United Klans of America, did you have membership in ?
Mr. Williams. Unit 53, the Benevolent Association.
Mr. Manuel. The Klavern was called the Benevolent Association?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2869
Mr. Williams. Well, when I got in it was called Pitt C/Ounty
Christian Fellowship Association.^
Mr. Manuel. And it was also known as the Benevolent Association ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. The unit designation was what, sir? Wliat number?
Mr. Williams. Fifty-three.
Mr. IMvNUEL. How long did you remain a member of that particular
Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. Until October 1st.
Mr. Manuel. 1965 ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Where was that Klavern located, sir?
Mr. Williams. Three miles east of Greenville at a place known as
Port Terminal in a building that was unoccupied.
Mr. Manuel. From approximately October 1965 until you severed
your membership in the Klan, did you belong to another Klavern or
another unit of the Realm of North Carolina, United Klans of
America ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please identify that unit ?
Mr. Williams. I belonged to Unit 162 at Pactolus just east of
Greenville, a kind of a crossroads place with the name, and the name
was Pactolus Hunting Club.
Mr. Manuel. So during your membership in the Klan you were a
member of two separate Klavems ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. One known as the Benevolent Association in Green-
ville, North Carolina, and the other known as the Pactolus Hunting
Club in Pactolus, North Carolina ; is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Going back to July 28, 1965, when you first joined the
United Klans, will you please tell the committee how you obtained
membership in the Klan ?
Mr. Williams. I obtained this card and I had it sent in to the unit.
They passed on it a week and the following week they asked me to
come in.
Mr. Manuel. Were you initiated at a meeting of the Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you pay an initiation fee or a klectokon, as it is
known in the Klan ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. How much was that, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Ten dollars.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know where that money went after you paid it ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To whom did you pay that?
Mr. Williams. Harry Ferguson.
Mr. Manltel,. Will you please identify for the committee Mr. Harry
Ferguson ?
Mr. Williams. He was the klokard in the Klavern. He was the
man who swore us in.
1 Pitt County Independent Christian Fellowship Association.
2870 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAIST IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. That is an officer in the Klavern known as the klokard
or the conductor ; is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you take any oaths as a member of the Ku Klux
Klan?
Mr. Welll\ms. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Who administered your oath to you ?
Mr. Williams. Mr. Ferguson.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, I'd like to show you a series of oaths
which committee investigation has revealed the oath to be administered
to members of the United Klans of America and ask you if you took
this oath to become a member of the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir, it is the same.
(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. JVIanuel. Prior to taking that oath, Mr. Williams, did anyone
explain to you the content of the oath or in any way let you know
what oath you would be taking?
Mr. Wllliams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. In other words, you took the oath by just raising your
right hand and swearing after the gentleman who gave you the oath ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. After taking the oath, did you subsequently learn
what the oath meant?
Mr. Williams. No, sir. I just listened to him read and held up my
hand and swore "I do," when he was through reading.
Mr. Manuel. In practical terms, Mr. Williams, during your period
of membership in the United Klans of America, in your own words,
what did this oatli bind you to?
Mr. Williams. Well, we was supposed to put death before us be-
fore we revealed any secrets of the Klan.
Mr. Manuel. Now, by secrets of the Klan, sir, could you explain
to the committee what you mean by that?
Mr. Williams. That is whatever went on in the Klavern at
meetings.
Mr. Manuel. Including membership and activities ?
Mr. Wimjams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Was any part of this oath explained to you in terms
of what would happen if you violated the oath ?
Mr. Williams. After we were sworn in there, they had what is a
runner between the man who was swearing us in and the inside. He
would go in. He went in and they cut the lights off in the Klaveni
excepting one little light right over the officer and the cross. They
had a cross made of wood with lights on it, red lights, and we were
led into and around the desk in front of the officer and he stood up and
explained that we were now members of the Invisible Empire and that
"we believe in not revealing no one's name in here ; we leave it up to
you to reveal if you are a member." And he reached over and had a
strap this long with a handle on the end of it and it had
Mr. Manuel. Was it a whip ?
Mr. Williams. It was a strap with a handle on it, like a paddle. A
thick leather strip about that thick and he said, "This is to remind
ACTIVITIES OF KU ' KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2871
them that we do not have no name revealing outside of this building
for what goes on here."
Mr. Manuel. And again w^ho was that person whom you are de-
scribing now talking to the prospective members ?
Mr. Williams. EC. He w as the EC.
Mr. Manuel. What was his name, sir?
Mr. Williams. Carl Manning.
Mr. Manltel. Can you name for the committee the other officers in
the Klavern which you joined? That is Unit 53 in Greenville known
as the Benevolent Association ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir, Carl Manning is the EC.
Mr. Manuel. EC is exalted cyclops ; is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir; and the assistant was Marvin Strickland.
The klokard was Harry Ferguson and the investigator, I do not know
his first name, but his last name was Edwards. He worked with the
Forestry Service.
The Chairman. Of the State or the Federal Government?
Mr. Williams. The State.
That was what w^e called the investigator.
And the inner guard, I can't think of w^ho he w^as. The outer guard
was the Robuck boy.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know his first name?
Mr. Williams. Gene Robuck, I think.
Mr. Manuel. The outer guard, was who?
Mr. Williams. The outer guard, I don't remember his name, but I
know that the security guards worked as the outer guards and David
Bunting w^as the captain.
Mr. Manuel. He was the captain of the security guards ?
Mr. Williams. At that time.
Mr. Manuel. Who was the treasurer?
Mr. Williams. Louis Tyson.
Mr. Manuel. AVlio was the secretary ?
Mr. Williams. Jolui Twel.
Mr. Manuel. Now, at this time, Mr. Williams, did you have a State
officer who was affiliated with your Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir,
Mr, Manuel. What was his name ?
Mr. Williams, His name was Charlie Edwards. He was a police-
man of Grimesland. That is a town 11 miles east of Greenville,
Mr, Manuel, What office did he hold within the State structure of
the Realm of North Carolina UKA ?
Mr. Williams, He always told us at every meeting he attended
that he was our State officer. He was kind of in charge of the security
guard.
Mr. Manuel, Did you ever hold any office yourself in this Klavern,
Mr, Williams?
Mr, Williams, No, sir,
Mr, Manuel. Did you ever hold an office in the second Klavern
which you joined, the Pactolus group ?
Mr, Williams, I w^as the assistant treasurer and was there every
night excepting one,
Mr. ]VLanuel. We will get to that just a bit later.
59-222 O— 67— pt. 3 35
2872 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAI^ IN THE U.S.
Did you purchase a robe as a Klansman?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know of members in your unit who did pur-
chase robes?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. MvxuEL. Would you tell the committee from what source the
robes came ?
Mr. Williams. The robes came from Bob Jones. They picked them
up at rallies. He would bring them there in his truck.
Mr. Manuel. Would you identify Bob ,1 ones for the committee ?
Mr. Williams. He is the Grand Dragon of North Carolina.
Mr. Manuel. As a member of the United Klans, you knew him to
be the Grand Dragon of the Realm of North Carolina ; is that correct,
sir?
Mr. Williams. That is correct.
Mr. Manuel. Was he the Grand Dragon of the Realm of North
Carolina at the time you left the United Klans of America?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. What price was paid to Mr. Jones for the robes which
were purchased from him by members of the Realm of North Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. They had a satin robe, what they called a satin robe
was $15, They had a cotton robe that went at $10.
Mr. Manuel. As a member, did you have any idea where Mr. Jones
obtained the robes or the material to make the robes ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir ; I do not.
Mr. Manuel. Was money for the robes paid directly to Mr. Jones ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To whom was the money paid ?
Mr. Williams. The treasurer of the Klavern.
Mr. Manuel. And what did he do with the money ?
Mr. Williams. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Manuel. As a member of the Realm of North Carolina, did
you pay dues ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. How much were the dues per member ?
Mr. Williams. $2 a month.
Mr. Manuel. Was it ever explained to you what happened to these
dues once they were paid by the membership ?
Mr. Williams. Only one time I asked Louis Tyson what went with
the dues that we paid in and he said that most of it went to the State
office.
Mr. Manuel. Was there ever any a?ccounting made of the money
within the Klavern that the Klavern collected in the form of dues or
initiation fees or other sources of income ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Never any accounting.
Mr. Williams, have you ever heard of an organization known as the
Alabama Rescue Service ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. In other words, all during the period of your mem-
bership in the United Klans of America, you never knew of the exist-
ence of the Alabama Rescue Service ; is that correct ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2873
Mr. Williams. No, sir, we never heard.
Mr. Manitel. Mr. Chairman, I woiikl like to point out at this time
that the committee has subpenaed the bank account of the Benevolent
Association, which is the Klavern to which Mr. Williams belonged in
Greenville, and we have found that from April 7, 1965, until some date
in September 1965, that the Greenville Klavern paid to the Alabama
Rescue Service, which is the cover name of the national headquarters
of the United Klans of America, paid them the amomit of $301.25. I
point this out, sir, for the record, and I ask Mr. Williams if to his
knowledge any of the members of the Klavern, other than the officers
who signed these checks, knew of the existence of the Alabama Rescue
Service and the fact that their money was being directed to that
organization ?
Mr. WiLLLVMS. No, sir; we never heard of it mentioned on the
floor.
(Checks marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 1." One of said
checks follows ; balance retained in committee files.)
George Williams Exhibit No. 1
f-
»•
• (.
h.
>
n
:i«
owns
%
■ -
•
Mr. Manuel. I would also like to point out for the record, Mr.
Chairman, that the signatures on the checks which we have obtained
by subpena are those of R. E. Everett, L. H. Tyson, and in some cases
Carl M. Manning.
Did you know Mr, R. E. Everett to be a member of the Klan?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you know him to be an officer of that Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. You have identified Mr. Manning as the exalted
Cyclops and Mr. Tyson as the treasurer; is that correct, sir?
Mr. Williams. That is right.
Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Williams, shortly after you became a mem-
])er of the Greenville Klavern, were you asked to perform, or were you
assigned to perform, an act of violence in the town of Vanceboro,
North Carolina?
Mr. WiLLL\MS. Yes.
2874 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell how this assignment was made
and what the circumstances were in the assignment being made ?
Mr. Williams. Well, Charlie Edwards, which was the State officer
at that time, came into the Klavern the second week that I was in the
Klavem. The second meeting that I ever went to.
Mr. Manuel. Would that be around August 5, 1965 ?
Mr. Williams. Yes. He picked eight of us along the row and he
said first to come over in the corridor, that he wanted to talk to us.
We went over there and he explained to us. He said, "Now, I want
the mayor of Vanceboro taken out and whipped."
He said, "Now, if you don't do this, I will know of it."
He said, "I don't want to know when you are going. Work that out
among yourselves, or how you do it, but I don't want to know when
you go, but I want him whipped."
Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Edwards include himself in the group that
would go down to Vanceboro ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. And he picked eight members from the Klavern; is
that correct, sir?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Did he give a reason as to why he wanted the mayor
of Vanceboro, North Carolina, whipped?
Mr. Williams. He was seen in the company of some colored ladies.
Mr. Manuel. At least this is what Mr. Edwards told you?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you subsequently find out that the reason which
Mr. Edwards gave you was not entirely correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Wiat did you find out in that regard, Mr. Williams ?
Mr. Williams. Well, I found out that the mayor was trying to
help the colored people get jobs.
Mr. Manuel. And for that reason, Mr. Edwards wanted the mayor
whipped, in reality ; is that correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you later find that out to be true?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Did the eight persons picked by Mr. Edwards sub-
sequently go to Vanceboro to beat the mayor ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee what happened ?
Mr. Williams. We went into Vanceboro and changed our minds and
come back.
Mr. Manuel. For what reason did you change your mind?
Mr. Williams. We were scared.
Mr. Manuel. Of the eight persons — seven others — did any of them
leave the Klan as a result of this incident?
Mr. Williams. Two that I know of never came back.
Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Edwards have any comment after you came
back, not having carried out his assignment?
Mr. Williams. No, sir; I didn't see him any more about it.
Mr. Manuei.. And why was this?
Mr. Williams. The next week we were going to Plymouth.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2875
Mr. Manuel. That is Plymouth, North Carolina; is that correct?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. You say you were going to Plymouth. Why did you
go to Plymouth?
Mr. Williams. The first night I went to Plymouth Avas at a rally.
That was along the first of August when we started going to Plymouth.
Then after this incident at Vanceboro, I was called one night about
1 o'clock in the morning and told to meet at the Klavern.
Mr. Manuel. Who called you, sir ?
Mr. W^illl\ms. Louis Tyson.
Mr. ]\L\nuel. And he was the treasurer of the Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. What did he say to you at that time ?
Mr. Williams. He said, "Get up and come on out to the Klavern.
We are needed." And so I got up and went out to the Klavern.
Mr. Manuel. Did you ask him any other questions at that time?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. MLanuel. You just got up and went when he called you ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. And that was at 1 o'clock in the morning; is that
correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. What happened when you met ?
]Mr. Williams. I got to the Klavern, and there was two men out
there, and nobody else came for a few minutes, so we decided we would
go back across the river to Mr. Tyson's office, which is a J.P.'s office.
Mr. Manuel. He is a justice of the peace ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. In Greenville ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Proceed, sir.
Mr. Williams. And before we got to his office we come across a lot
of cars parked out there, directly off from the airport, Grimesland, and
so we pulled them down and asked where they were meeting at. So
we all got on cars there and went to Plymouth.
Mr. Manuel. Before you proceed, did Mr. Tyson give you any ex-
planation at that time as to if anyone had an assignment to call the
members of the Klan?
Mr. Williams. He said the chief, that is what they call Mr.
Edwards at that time because he was the chief of police in Greenville,
and he said the chief and Mr. Ferguson was at Plymoutli and called
him that we were needed at Plymouth. So we all got on cars and went
to Plymouth.
Mr. Manuel. Did he explain to you why you were needed in
Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. No, he didn't.
Mr. Manltel. For what purpose did you go to Plymouth?
Mr. Williams. They were having demonstrations down there, and
we were going down to stop the demonstrations.
Mr. Manltel. When you say "they were having demonstrations,''
could you identify for the committee whom you mean by "they''?
Mr. Williams. The colored people were having demonstrations in
Plymouth at that time.
2876 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. And you say that Mr. Edwards or Mr. Ferguson were
the ones who called the Klansmen into Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you ever find out from Mr. Ferguson where he
was getting his information as to the demonstrations?
Mr. Williams. He told us that a policeman, a friend of liis, was call-
ing him from Plymouth and notifying him.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know the identity of that policeman ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. How many separate times, Mr. Williams, beside the
rally which you told us about, did you go to Plymouth to participate
as a Klansman in the demonstration?
Mr. Williams. Three.
Mr. Manuel. Can you explain to the committee what happened on
the first trip concerning the domonstrations ?
Mr. Williams. We went into the edges of Plymouth at a little cafe,
a drive-in cafe, and we were met by Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Edwards,
and they told us to go back to the edge of town and wait, and either
them or this policeman would notify us.
Mr. Manuel. Were members of the Klan armed at that time?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Were you yourself armed?
Mr. Williams. Not at that time ; no.
Mr. Manuel. Were you given a weapon ?
Mr. Williams. Not on that trip.
Mr. Manuel. Not on the first trip ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. At that time did any persons known to you to be
members of the Klan make use of citizens band radios to effect com-
munications between Klansmen I
Mr. Williams. No, sir ; not at that time, but they tried to reach some
of them but they couldn't reach anybody.
Mr. Manuel. On your first trip into Plymouth, did Mr. Fergu-
son specifically tell you why he had ordered Klansmen into Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. He said that we were called in there, that
they were going to deputize us, and that we were going to stop the
colored one way or the other.
Mr. Manuel. Did you or any other Klansmen, to your knowledge,
become deputized at any time ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you return to Greenville after your first trip to
Plymouth?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. How long after that, sir, did you go back ?
Mr. Williams. About a week.
Mr. Manuel. And who notified you to make the return trip ?
Mr. Williams. Louis Tyson.
Mr. Manuel. On these trips, Mr. Williams, did you observe Klans-
men from other parts of North Carolina other than Greenville?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Were these persons residents of Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2877
Mr. Manuel. On your trips to Plymouth, would you please tell the
conunittee, to the best of your knoAvledge, how many Klansmen were
involved in Plymouth during these demonstrations during the month
of August 1965 ?
Mr. Williams. Well, I couldn't say how many was in, but the night
that I was in Plymouth on the last trip over there I would say there was
around a thousand.
The Chairman. How many ?
Mr. Williams. A thousand.
Mr. Manuel. Of those thousand Klansmen, to the best of your
knowledge, how many were residents or active members in Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. About 25 or 30, 1 would say.
Mr. Manuel. So out of the thousand, then, there were approximately
970 to 975 who had come from outside the Plymouth area ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Do you happen to possess knowledge as to how they
happened to l>e in Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. They were called in by Mr. Ferguson.
Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Edwards participate in that ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. During your first two trips to Plymouth to engage in
these demonstrations as a Klansman, were there any acts of violence
known to you to have occurred ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Wliat were the activities of the Klansmen, and spe-
cifically yours, in Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. Well, on the second trip we went over there, on both
trips, we were met at this same cafe and was told to go back to the edge
of town and wait at the city limits, outside the city limits. The first
two times.
Mr. Manuel. I see. Were you told or ordered to do anything, carry
out any action ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Was there any agitation on the part of the Klan di-
rected against those who were demonstrating ?
Mr, Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Did you return to Greenville after your second trip
into Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. And how long did you remain in Greenville before
coming back to Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. I left, Plymouth about 5 o'clock in the morning, and
I got home and I worked that day, and I went back that night because
Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Edwards told us that all stay who could be-
cause we would be needed in Plymouth if they did start the march-
ing. He made the remarks that the colored had said they were going
to make another Los Angeles out of Plymouth.
Mr. Manuel. That was told to you by whom ?
Mr. Williams. Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Edwards. So they said they
that didn't have to go back to work, to stay, and what did to go back
and come back that night.
Mr. Manuel. What happened on your third trip into Plymouth?
Mr. Williams. I was shot.
2878 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. Would you describe to the committee liow you were
shot, under what circumstances ?
Mr. Williams. When we went on into Plymouth that night, and we
went out and stopped first at the cafe, there was around 75 to maybe
a hundred Klansmen at this cafe. And as we come by the city limits,
there were some parked in this area where we had been parking the
time we had been before. So we stopped at this cafe a while, and
these boys that was with me had never been into Plymouth, so they
said, "Let's ride up into town and see what is going on, and then we
will ride through."' So we rode up into town, and after we got into
town we saw other men up there I knew was in the Klan, so we just
parked our car by the courthouse and walked one block down and into
the doorway of a store on the corner. We had been there about 15
minutes when there was a bunch of colored men come walking down
the street. As they crossed the street and got on the comer, five or six
white men and women were behind them, kind of heckling them, and
as they got right along by us this colored man reached down in his
sock and come out with a gun, and as he pulled the gun it fell over on
the street by the light meter. He dropped on his knees, and when he
come up with the gun he started firing across the street, and then the
boys run that was with me, and he turned around and fired at them
when they went around the comer. And his back was to me then, and
I knew if he ever turned or if somebody didn't stop him, some innocent
people was going to get hurt because they had children on there, and
there was women and all. So I thought I could jump him while his
back was to me, and I lunged, and as I lunged he fired and hit me in
the stomach.
Mr. Manuel. He hit you ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel, Were you seriously wounded ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, I would like to show you a clipping,
or a copy of a clipping from the Raleigh, North Carolina, Times,
dated September 1, 1965, and in this article one passage says: "George
Williams, 45, of Greenville, 50 miles away, was shot in the abdomen,"
and in another instance, "Clarence McCoy Adams, 27, of Pink Hill
about 100 miles from Plymouth was knifed in the side."
I show you this article and ask you if you are the George Williams
referred to in that ?
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
(Document marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 2" appears on
p. 2879.)
Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. Clarence McCoy Adams?
Mr. Williams. Only as of that night.
Mr. Manuel. Did you know him to be a member of the Klan?
Mr. Williams. He told me he was not a Klansman, but his father
and some of the Klansmen from Jones County come in and they told
me they were Klansmen.
Mr. M^vNUEL. I see. Now, Mr. Williams, did you have occasion to
know that after you were shot, wounded. Grand Dragon Jones made
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
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2880 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
a statement to the Governor of North Carolina and also made a state-
ment to the press that the man who was shot in Plymouth was not a
Klansman ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. I show you a press clipping from the Raleigh, North
Carolina, Times^ dated September 2, 1965, and I quote from one para-
graph of that clipping: "He,*' referring to Jones, "'said two white men
injured in street fighting there Friday night were not Klan members."
I show you this, Mr. Williams, and ask you whether, to your recollec-
tion, that statement is correct as far as Mr. Jones is concerned?
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. He made the statement the next day after
I was shot, on television, and this was in the next morning's paper.
(Document marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 3" appears on
p. 2881.)
The Chairman. On television he said the two men
Mr. Williams. I was not affiliated with the Klan.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. At that time you were a member of the United Klans
of America. Is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. And you were ordered to Plymouth by persons known
to you to be officials in the United Klans of America, Realm of North
Carolina. Is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. And also pictured on that article, Mr. Williams, along
with Grand Dragon Jones are Boyd Hamby and George Dorsett.
Would you please tell the committee who those two individuals are?
Mr. Williams. The Reverend Dorsett was the chaplain of the Klav-
em, and the day that I was in court in Plymouth — I had known Boyd
Hamby had been seen a lot with Bob Jones, but the day I was in court
I found out he was the grand night-hawk of the Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Manuel. Did you also know Reverend Dorsett to be a grand
officer of the Realm of North Carolina ?
Mr. WiLi,iAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Williams, subsequent to Mr. Jones making
this statement, did you have occasion to personally meet Mr. Jones ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you describe to the committee the circum-
stances under which you met Mr. Jones?
Mr. Williams. The first day I was in court in Plymouth — I w\as
subpenaed as a witness over there against the colored fellow^ which had
been charged for assault with a deadly weapon. The first day I was
in court there, I left after court and went out to the edge of Plymouth
to the rally site. They were going to have a rally at Plymouth at
night. I went out in this pasture where the site was, and Bob Jones
and Boyd Hamby came up to my car and said, "Whose car?" I said,
"This is mine." He said, "Let's ride some." And so we got in the car
and left.
Mr. Manuel. And what conversation took place, Mr. Williams, be-
tween yourself and Mr. Jones while you were in the car?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2881
George Williams Exhibit No. 3
[Raleigh, N.C., Times, Sept. 2, 1965]
GRAND DRAGON JONES
. . . flanlied by Ge«rge Bamby aad Rev. George Dorsett (Staff Pboto) . . .
Jones, Aiier Seeing Moore;
Soys fC/on Nof Cause of Crisis
By SHIRLEY MUDGE
Times Staff Writer
All Ku Klux Klansmen who
<3o not live in Plymouth have
been ordered to slay out of that
strife-torn community by the
Grand Dragon of their organic
ration.
Rpbert W. Jones, head Klans-
mSn in the State, said follow-
ing a 30-minute meeting with
Govenior Moore today that:
Klansmen have not been in-
volved in the violence in Ply-
mouth in recent days.
Jones said he issued an order
last Friday to Klan memberd
from otiier areas to stay oub
of Plymouth.
The Grand Dragon said tbaC
his half-hour conference with
Moore was t)eneficial because
H resulted in a greater ander-
standing between the two about
wbat each is attempting to do.
Jones said he asked Moore
about a statement recently at-
tributed to Dr. Martin Luther
--King to the effect that Plymouth
may become another Selma or
Los Angeles which the world
will long remember.
He said the Governor assured
him this would not be tlte case.
Jones went into the ctaifer-
ence with a llat o< prepared
questionj. Ue was accompanied
by Rev. George F. Dorwtt and
Gordon Hamby, both leaders in
liis organization.
He said he first asked the
Governor how the State will
end the street (demonstrations
Sec KlaasnieD. Page 3
Klansmen Told
Stay Out of Town
Continued From Page One [get rid of some of them "as
.. , ■ . ■ ., soon as I can."
without giviiig speoal pnvilcges j„„es declined to name any
to the Negro ciUzcns of Ply-'j, o.^ members with whom he
mouth, but he said he got nojij dissatisfied.
°''**"'- I The Grand Dragon said he ex-
Jones said he then aslied thelpects to go ahead with plans
Govenior if the Klan could do i for a rally in Washington Coun-
anylhing to help the situation, ty Oct- 13. He said he does
and was asked by Moore tO;nol expect the rally to incite
abide by the law.'
Jooes said he replied; "We
have done that."
The Man chief said he asked
further violence.
Asked specifically if he would
consider calling the rally off if
the Governor should request
Moore, too. if the Klan had been j hini '<>, he said h« probably
found by the Attorney Gener- would.
al's office to be a legal fraternal I Questioned about statements
organization and was assured it by civil rights leaders that they
is I will demonstrate wherever Klan
In answer to reporters' ques- r»"'«5 are held, Jones chal-
tions, Jones denied his organiza-;'™B«'"'e Negroes to keep up
tion is becoming "more politi-|^'"},*Il^ ^^^; , ,
caUy oriented" but admitted he ' " they loUow us around for
has been speaking in opposition f "^^i'^, ^^y," *>^ '<» M^"" ^
to Rep. Harold Cooley. .demonstrate Jones said, ex-
Asked if he would support any P'^'ne '''" ""^ ^,^^ been raUy-
candidats opposing CoSley he ] ">? '<"■ 39 ~"««'"JY« "S*^
said he would have to know who! As he answered "Pfrte".
the candidate would be but he ' ?"=^'<'"f- ■'<"'?' reiterated from
said he probably would support """i ° '™* "^ contenUon that
Jim Gardner of Rocky Mount;?" ^,'»°™'°*t;irh''' ""
were he to chaUenge Cooley, "'f,''"''T.* =' ^y"""""'. . .
aeam ^.^"^"sc ^w.cj,, He said two white men injured
In summing up his meeting > t'f'^ ''^}^^ ">"« f^''"''
with the Govlmor, Jones said>eW*^''lf,Kiyi"™^"f,,,
"Wp both «rr«v1 that «» rff ''""^ ""' "' P'y™«l" that
rZLA^tt^I^ I night and said he did not see
ii,^/^I?^™T^i,*^';r"'i i° The nIws and Ob-,
like some members of the Klan ' ,3 ^ , ,.,33^ be-
but Jmea agreed he has some,,^,„„ ^epoes and Klansmen
fll ."^j i '^ ''°. ^^". *"?'ibut that he did not see any suchl
out And he said he plans tolfjgf^t ,
Jones declined to say howj
•; many Klansmen hve m the-
Plymouth area. '
. Jones got an unpleasant wel-
come to Raleigh this moming.
; Police cited him with exceed-
r ing 35 miles per hour in a 35
mile zone on Glenwood Avenue
I near Cleveland Street A radar
unit stationed at that point
j made the stop, police said.
I Jones was en route to his
I conference with Governor
Moore. He told reporters later
this morning he had '-every in-
I ten'tion of fighting the charge in
1 court."
2882 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Williams. Well, he told me that he wanted to go down to the
county line towards Washington to see if the highway patrol was
checking cai*s. We rode to the county line and turned around. There
was no highway patrolmen at the county line. We got back to the
edge of Plymouth and he said, "Now we want to go to the coimty line
towards Williamston,"' and I took him down that road.
Mr. ML^NLTEL. "Wliat did he say to you at that time ?
Mr. Williams. He got into discussion with me being shot in Ply-
mouth, and he said, "I don't know whether they will be after you or
not to go up on the committee since they found that you are affili-
ated with the Klan, but," he said, "if you do, get in touch with me and
I will tell you what to do."
Mr. Manuel. In other words, in discussing the possibility of your
being subpenaed before this committee, Mr. Jones told you at that
time that, if you were subpenaed, you were to contact him and he would
tell you what to do. Is that correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Did lie have any statement to make regarding your
Klan membership, which he had denied publicly after the incident in
Plymouth ?
Mr. Williams. He said if he had knew of me personally he would
have been to see me before now, but he had not knowed me personally.
Mr. Manuel. But he did know you as a member of the Klan. Is
that correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. At the time he made that statement ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, I would like to show you another press
clipping from the Raleigh, North Carolina, Neivs and Observer, dated
September 3, 1965, with the headline "Dragon Says 'Bad Ones' Spot-
lighted," and then this article, one paragraph of which reads as fol-
lows :
Questioned by newsmen after the conference, Jones said : "The Governor
doesn't like some members of our organization. I have some I could get along
better without and I plan to get rid of them as soon as I can." ^
Asked if any Klansmen were in Plymouth during the recent outbursts, Jones
said : "There were none in Plymouth that were ordered to go in. I've never
ordered anybody to go anywhere. I told all of my people to stay out of there
except the ones who lived there."
Mr. Williams, I would like to ask you, as a result of your activities
as a Klansman in Plymouth, North Carolina, did any official of the
Realm of North Carolina make any investigation ? Were you repri-
manded in any way by any official of the Realm of North Carolina 'i
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
(Document marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 4" appears on
p. 2883.)
Mr. Manuel. Were you questioned at all concerning your activities ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, was any member of the Klan ex-
pelled for activities in Plymouth, North Carolina?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. MvNUEL. To your knowledge, did Grand Dragon Jones, prior
to the date that you were shot, issue an order to Klansmen to the effect
' Committee investigation establisherl that no North Carolina Klansmen were banished
because of criminal background or violent nature.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
George Williams Exhibit No. 4
[Raleigh, N.C., News and Observer, Sept. 3. 1965]
2883
Dragon Says
^Bad Ones^
Spotlighted
Grand Dragon Robert .lonesii
agreed Thursday with Cover-'
nor Moore that the Plymouth]
racial violence has spotlighted ,|
some undesirables in the North;
Carolina Ku KIux Klan.
The Cranite Quarry sales- 1
man, accompanied by two aides,'
met with Moore shortly after
the Governor had placed part
• of the blame for the Plymouth
strife at the doorstep of "cer-
tain members of the Klan."
Doesn't Like Some
Questioned by newsmen after
the conference, Jones said:
"The Governor doesn't like
some members of our organiza-
tion. I have some I could get
along better without and I plan
to get rid of them as soon as I
can."
Asked if any Klansmen wer«
in Plymouth during the recent
outbursts, Jones said: "Ther«»li
were none in Plymouth thai
were ordered to go in. I've nev<
er ordered anybody to go any-J
where. I told all of my people
to stay out of there except the!
ones who live there."
Jones, accompanied by Klani
Chaplain, the Rev. George Dor-:
s^tt of Greensboro, and organiz
fci Gordon Hamby of Lexing-i
ton, said he put this question to
Governor Moore: "How will the.
State end the daily demonstra-
tions at Plymouth without giv-
ing special privileges to the col-
ored citizens?"
Moore, he said, "didn't an-
swer it."
Another question to Moore,
Jones said, was: "Is there any-
thing the Klan can do to help
the situation?" Moore's answer,
he said, /as: "Abide by the
law."
Jones commented: "This we
have done."
Negroes Uninvited
Jones was asked about a
pledge made Monday by Eden-
ton civil rights leader Golden
Frinks to hold a march in the
vicinity of every Klan rally. He
replied: "They can demonstrate
in the road if they want to, but
that's my property at the rally
site as long as the rally is go-
ing on. They'd be uninvited
guests there. I think if the Ne-
groes followed us for 30 days
they'd be so tired they couldn't
demonstrate." i
Asked if a Klan rally sched-;
uled for Sept. 13 near Plymouth^
is still on, Jones said: "Yes,
See KLAN, Page 2
KLAN I
Continued from Page On«
sir, it certainly is." Moore did
not request cancellation of this
rally, Jones said, or any otih-
ers scheduled.
Several rallies are on tap,
Jones said, including Hender-
son on Sept. 8 and Williamston
on Sept. IL
Jones said that reports of a
[scuffle between Klansmen and
Negroes in Plymouth the night
of Aug. 26 were false. A num-
ber of Negroes reported receiv-
ing injuries from a run-in with
the Klan.
The Plymouth conflict explod-
ed into gunplay and knife-wield-
ing Tuesday night. One white
man was shot and another cut.
"The man who was shot was
not a Klansman," Jones said,
"and the man who was cut was
not a Klansman."
2884 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
that, as he stated in the press, all of the people were told to get out
of there except the ones who lived there?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Maxuel. Now, Mr. Williams, do you have any knowledge of
any other act of intimidation or violence performed by persons known
to you to be members of the Ignited Klans of America, Realm of North
Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. There is a few incidents that was brought, but this
was the only one I took part in.
Mr. Manuel. Do you have knowledge of cross-burnings?
Mr. Williams. Of two.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain to the committee what
your knowledge is m that regard ?
Mr. Williams. Along about mid-September, I mean October, I
think it Avas. I ain't sure of the date. But I went to a meeting at the
Pactolus Hunting Club, and they had a cross fixed in the back room,
and after the meeting was over Harry Ferguson took five of the men
and he went into the back room and talked, closed the door and they
talked, and the next morning there was a cross burnt in Mr. John
Grier's yard.
Mr. Maxuel. Would you identify- for the committee Mr. John
Grier?
Mr. Williams. He was a real estate rental man in Greenville, and
they claimed he was the cause of them selling the first house to a
colored family in the white section of the town.
Mr. ]VL\xuEL. Did you see that cross in the Klavern prior to the
burning ?
Mr. Williams. I saw a cross. I couldn't say it was the same one.
But I know there was a cross and it was burned about an hour after
we closed.
Mr. ]VL\NUEL. Prior to the burning of that cross, did you observe
at the same meeting Mr. Ferguson call several Klansmen over in the
corner, as was done in the incident concerning the mayor in Vance-
boro?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. During the month of September, Mr. Williams, was
there any other incident regarding a threatened beating or intimidation
of a person in Greenville c
Mr. Williams. There was a small boy, or he was a young boy, a
man, but he was retarded.
Mr. Maxuel. Mentally retarded?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. I know they did not beat him. They went
out and after they got him they talked to him and warned him if he
was caught in the company of colored people again they would come
back and get him.
Mr. Maxuei.. Were Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Harry Ferguson
the ones who did this?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Maxuel. And they were officers, again, at that time in the Realm
of North Carolina ?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2885
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, in November of 1965, do you have any
knowledge of the beating of another Klansman from another unit?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain to the committee your
knowledge in that regard?
Mr. Williams. This was a boy, was a young fellow. He is a man,
but he was a young fellow in the Greenville Unit, Benevolence
Association.
Mr. Manuel. What w^as his name ?
Mr, Williams. All I know is Langston.
Mr, Manuel. L-a-n-g-s-t-o-n?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Proceed,
Mr, Williams, The way I found out about this, the sheriff come to
me, come to my house one night, or sent two deputies to my house to
question me of a shooting between the two units along the highway,
a shooting that occurred when from one car a fellow shot another one,
and they indicted each other. So I
Mr. Manuel. You mean they made a complaint against each other ?
Mr. WiLLL4MS. Yes, sir. I told the sheriff I didn't know what you
are talking about, and he said the shooting took place Monday night
between the Klan in Pactolus Unit and the Klan in the Greenville
Unit, and I said I still didn't know 'Svhat you are talking about.
Sheriff."
Mr. Manuel. Did the sheriff' come to you as a suspect in this case?
Mr, Williams. Yes, sir. He said, "*How^ about the beating, from
which unit did it occur?" I said, "I don't know of no beating." Then
he told me about the beating, that seven men went to this young fel-
low's house and whupped him. After they wdiupped him, the Green-
ville Klavem started putting guards at his hous&at night. While one
of the guards w^as going oft' duty he started home and the car from
Pactolus Unit followed him and, about 4 miles from Greenville, shot
in the back of his car. And he told that they passed him and went
by, and as he followed them they turned up a dirt road, which he said
he knew that he had to come back out of to get out on the highway.
So he parked right where they would come out and he said as they
come out he throwed his lights and emptied his gun on the side of the
car.
Mr. Manuel, So one Klansman in the Pactolus Unit is shooting at
another Klansman from the Greenville Unit, Is that correct ?
Mr, Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr, Manuel, And this resulted, as I understand it, in the members
from the Pactolus Unit beating a man named Langston from the
Greenville Unit?
Mr, Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. For what reason was Mr. Langston beaten by Klans-
men ?
Mr. Williams. There was a boy in the Klan, the security guard
captain, was throwed out of the Klan unit in Greenville.
Mr, Manuel. What was his name?
Mr, Williams. David Bunting.
2886 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Manuel. B-ii-n-t-i-n-g?
Mr. WiLLL^Ms. That is right. They threw him out of the Klan unit
in Greenville while I was in there.
Mr. Manuel. For what reason was he expelled ?
Mr. Williams. They claimed he was passing information to the
law.
Mr. Manuel, Proceed.
Mr. Williams. So after we set up the unit in Pactolus, we took
David Bunting into the Pactolus Unit. So when we took him in, the
Greenville Unit was discussing taking David back in the Klan. And
the boy leading [the discussion] said he didn't see why because there
wasn't nothing to him, "He won't even provide for his family."
Mr. Manuel. Langston was talking about Bunting. Is that cor-
rect?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Proceed.
Mr. Williams. So somebody in that unit told David about it. So
he goes to the Pactolus Unit and tells Harry Ferguson, that resulted
from the beating.
Mr. Manuel. Harrv Ferguson at that time held what position in
the Pactolus Unit ?
Mr. Williams. He was the EC of the Pactolus Unit.
Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Williams, did you subsequently find out
who was involved in the. beating of Mr. Langston from the Greenville
Unit?
Mr. Williams. Only a few of them. I knew there was some of
them, but Mr. Ferguson was the one that said didn't nobody beat him
excepting him.
Mr. Manuel. Meaning Mr. Ferguson beat him ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. He admitted this to you ?
Mr. Williams. At my house.
Mr. Manuel. At your house ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr, Manuel. Wlio else was present, Mr. Williams, when Mr. Fer-
guson made this admission ?
Mr. Williams. There was two, the men were arrested for the shoot-
inff.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know the identity of those two men ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir, but
Mr. Manuel. O.K.
Mr. Williams. David Bunting was there. They were at my house
when it was brought out that I asked Mr. Ferguson, I said, "Harry,
Mr. Ferguson, 1 want to know did you send seven men over after that
boy?" He said, "Seven of us went, but nobody beat him but me."
He said, "I told Bob Jones that nobody hit him but me."
Mr. Manuel. So he even admitted this to Mr. Jones, who is the
Grand Dragon?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, Mr. Williams, what action did
Mr. Jones, the Grand Dragon, take with regard to the complaints that
were made by the Klansmen involved in the shooting?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2887
Mr. Williams. He told them to withdraw the warrants and handle
it among the Klan.
Mr, Manuel. For what reason ?
Mr. Williams. He didn't want the publicity.
Mr. Manuel. He didn't want the publicity ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, what was your own reaction to the ad-
mission by Mr. Ferguson that this action had been taken against a
fellow Klansman?
Mr. Williams. After he told me he did, I told him, I said, "As of
now, I am through with this mess. I don't want nothing to do with
you-all, and you-all let me alone. I won't bother you, and don't you
bother me.'' I said, "I am disgusted with you."
Mr. Manuel. At that time you left the United Klans of America ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
The Chairman. About when was that?
Mr. Williams. November 15. The shooting was on November 15.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, do you have any further knowledge of
the activities of Harry Ferguson and the Pactolus Unit of the United
Klans of America after you left the Klan ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. They turned their resignation in to the
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and have changed over to James "Cat-
fish" Cole's Carolina Ku Klux Klan.
Mr. Manuel. Could you identify for the committee Mr. James
"Catfish" Cole?
Mr. Williams. Mr. Cole was the man that was in charge of the Klan
that was in Lumberton at a rally the Indians went in to break up and
they got to shooting each other,
Mr. Manuel. Did he, as a matter of fact, serve a term in jail for
that incident ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Does he now, to your knowledge, have a Klan organ-
ization in North Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. He has the Carolina Klan. He is the
Imperial Wizard of the Carolina Klan, and Jesse MacBunning of
Greenville is the Grand Dragon of the Carolina Klan,
Mr, Manuel, As I understand, your testimony is that Mr, Harry
Ferguson has left the United Klans of American with the Pactolus
Unit and joined Mr. Catfish Cole's Carolina Ku Klux Klan organiza-
tion?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Do you happen to know for what reason Ferguson and
his group left to join Mr. Cole?
Mr. Williams. I don't know for sure, but I know that during the
trouble they were having, so much trouble, and kept calling Mr. Jones,
he got to the plac« he wouldn't pay them no mind about this trouble
they were having among each other.
Mr, Manuel, Mr, Williams, have you ever received any threats from
persons known to you to be members of the Ku Klux Klan after you
left the organization ?
Mr, Williams, Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain to the committee what
threats and mider what circumstances ?
59-222 O - 67 - pt. 3-36
2888 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Williams. I have had three phone calls Sunday. Two of them
I did not reco2:nize who they were.
Mr. Manuel. When you say Sunday, you mean last Sunday ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. But the third man that called me I knew
just as soon as he spoke who he was.
Mr. Manuel. Who was that man?
Mr. Williams. David Bunting.
Mr. Manuel. Whom you knew to be a member of the Ignited
Klans of America, now a member of Mr. Catfish Cole's Carolina Ku
Klux Klan organization?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. You told the committee previously that you termi-
nated your membership in the Ku Klux Klan in November of 1965,
and these threats came last Sunday — January 1966 ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Would you explain to the committee why you were
threatened at that particular time, since you had left the Klan in
November of 1965 ?
]SIr. Williams. I don't know for sure why, but I was at a cafe on
Friday night, tonight a week ago, and it was brought out that Harry
Ferguson was at a Good Neighbor Council, East Carolina College,
and the chief of police recognized him, and after the chief made his
speech he said, "I see we have one of our Klan leaders here." He
said, "Maybe he would like to say a few words.''
And he said, Ferguson said, "He had never been a leader of any-
thing but a mule."
Mr. Manuel. At that time, Mr. Williams, was the chief of police
of Greenville speaking against the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir. He said he recognized one of the Klan
leaders, that maybe he would like to say a few words.
Mr. Manuel. In discussing Klan activities?
Mr, Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr, Manuel. What happened after that ?
Mr. Williams. The man got mad and told the chief that he had
never led anything but a mule.
Mr. Manuel. And he never led the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. I was setting in there when this man
told us this, and I said — no. Some of them mentioned and said Fer-
guson said that he would make the chief prove that he was a leader
of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or he would sue the city.
So I made a remark. I said, "Well, they had better call me because
I served under him when I was in the Klan." So the following
Sunday I received these phone calls.
Mr. Manuel. It was after this you received the threatening phone
call?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
The Chairman. I think the record should be straightened a little
bit. You said the chief was making a speech. Where ?
Mr. Williams. At a Good Neighbor Council meeting. I don't
know the name. This fellow here (indicating press) could tell you
more about it.
Tlie Chairman. As far as you know, was that or was that not a
Klan meeting?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2889
Mr. Williams. No, sir; it was a Good Neighbor Council meeting.
The Chairman. And was the chief talking, or had he said anything
in favor of the Klan during his talk ; do you know ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir. The chief is 100 percent against the Klan.
The Chairman. I want the record to be clear either way. I am glad
it is clear that way.
Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Williams, going to the Pactolus Unit of
the United Klans of America
The Chairman. Let me go back to that incident. It is now related
to me that probably during the talk by the chief of police he was, in
fact, talking against the Klan, and then he said something like, "By the
way, I see one of their leaders here who can talk." Was that about
your imderstanding?
Mr. Williams. The way this fellow said it, he said the chief said,
"I see in our audience we have one of our Klan leaders" and said
maybe he would like to say a few words.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Williams, going back to the Pactolus Unit
of the United Klans of America, which you have previously testified
that you joined in approximately October of 1965, you identified Mr.
Harry Ferguson as the exalted cy clops of that unit. Is that correct?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, is he currently acting as exalted
Cyclops of the Pactolus Klavern ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manltel. From your direct knowledge, sir, would you identify
for the committee the other officers of the Pactolus Klavern as they
were when you were a member of that organization ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. Harry Ferguson was EC. Bobby Wadford
was the assistant.
Mr. Manuel. Was the Klaliff ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, the assistant.
The klokard was David Bunting.
Mr. Manuel. And David Bunting, as I understand it, was one of
the persons known to you to have made the threat over the telephone.
Is that correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. On your life?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Wliat did Mr. Bunting tell you over the telephone
that let you know that he was intunidating you ?
Mr. Williams. As soon as he spoke I told him, I said, "David, you
can talk like you ought to. I know who you were when you spoke
your first word." He said, "We will be looking for you." He said
the big man has put the word out "to get you and we will be after
you."
Mr. Manuel. Who did you take it he meant by "big man"?
Mr. Williams. Harry Ferguson.
Mr. Manuel. Did he say anything else ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. What was your reaction or your comments to Mr.
Bunting ?
2890 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE XJ.S.
Mr. Williams. At that time, I told him, I said, "You are not ^oing
to have to look for me." T said, "I will be in front of your brother's
place in 5 minutes." I got in my car, I rode by. They were in the
station. I rode by east. I went about a half a mile down the road.
I turned around, came back by, I went about a hundred yards more
down to the next, station. I turned and come back by. They never did
come out.
The Chairman. And they won't.
Mr. Manuel. Have you received any other threats subsequent to
that phone call and the subsequent incidents which you have related?
Mr. Williams. Two before.
Mr. Manuel. And would you explain to the committee the nature
of those threats ?
Mr. Williams. A voice on there said — the first one, I answered the
phone, and the man when I answered the phone said, "George?" I
said, "Yes.'' He said, "The man has put the word out to get you and
we wall be looking for you."
Mr. Manuel. Did you recognize in any way the person who was
calling?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. What was the nature of the second call to which you
referred ?
Mr. Williams. My daughter answered the phone, and she said,
"Daddy, some man wants to talk to you." And I went to the phone, and
he said, "George, the man has put the word out. We are coming after
you."
Mr. Manuel. At the time you left the United Klans of America,
and that was, as you testified, approximately November 15, 1965 ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel, Were any threats made at that time against you ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir, not directly threats. They was telling me,
a few of them, what they could do, that I knew what they could do.
I said, "Well, I am not afraid."
Mr. Manuel. Did they tell you specifically what they could do?
And if not, what did you take that to mean ?
Mr. Williams. They didn't come out and say what they could do,
they just said I knew what they could do.
Mr. Manuel. Who were the individuals that said that?
Mr. Williams. Different ones that belong to the Klavem.
Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Ferguson ever directly say anything to you
after you left ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. After the shooting, after I was ques-
tioned, that following weekend the two that was arrested was sup-
posed to appear at the justice of the peace's office, Mr, Luther Moore.
I went up there with them. After they laid the hearing over and
came on outside, I said, "Wiat are they going to do about this mess?"
And Harry said, "I don't know, they laid it over."
He said about this, "What have they done to you?" I said, "They
ain't done anything. They want me to take a lie test." He said,
"Bob Jones said you had l>etter take no lie test."
Mr. Manuel. Bob Jones, the Grand Dragon, had sent that word to
Mr. Ferguson?
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2891
Mr. Williams. I don't know. This is what Ferguson said to me on
the street in the presence of the tw^o men that had been arrested.
Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Ferguson give you a reason for this?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel, Did you subsequently take a lie detector test ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir, but I told him, "If the sherift' takes me,'* I
said, "I am going. If he thinks I am foolish enough to get out on the
road and ride up and down the road shooting,'' I said, "I want to get
straight of this mess and get out while the getting is good."'
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, from your direct knowledge as an
ex-member of the Ku Klux Klan, the United Klans of America
specifically, could you tell the committee approximately how many
active members currently are, to the last of your knowdedge, in the
area of Greenville, North Carolina ?
Mr. Williams. I would say about 40 active members.
Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge as to how many the Klan
itself carries on its books ?
Mr. Williams. There w^as about 340.
Mr. Manuel. 340?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. And to your knowledge, about 40 members are active?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. Most of the Klan, the people that get into
the Klan go and join, and after they get in and find out what they
are in, they don't never come back no more.
The Chairman. They go in and come out ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. After they go in, they have to give the
$10 to get in and they don't never see them no more. They don't never
come back.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, from your knowledge as a member
of the Klan, w^ould you please tell the committee what records are
kept by Klavems?
Mr. Williams. Well, they have a list of the names that is kept so
that they can find out who is behind on their dues and such things
as that. We have a list wnth the names that is kept.
Mr. Manuel. Do they keep, to your knowledge, any financial
records ?
Mr. Williams. I have never heard any financial reports read, only
what we had left in the bank, as to the Greenville Unit, but in the
Pactolus Unit they read the records every night and brought in
receipts and what was bought,
Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you a photostatic copy of a
check drawn on the account of the Benevolent Association of Green-
ville, North Carolina, dated October 22, 1965. The check is made
out to cash and it is in the amount $998.31. The notation on the
check says it is for "attorney fees."
I would like to show you this check and have you tell us who signed
it and what your knowledge of this particular check is.
Mr. Williams. It is signed by W. Hardin and L, H, Tyson and is
for cash in the amount $998 and some few cents for attorneys' fees.
I have never heard of them.
(Check marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 5" follows:)
2892 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
George Williams Exhibit No. 5
£3:EV0LL... ASSOCIiTIWf
, p. 0. BOX 2898 -- % . ''
' EAST CAHOLIM STATIC)?
GBSS;n/ILLE, NORTH CAaOLIHA n^Tr /O^ I .i- 19:
AY
I.
aS--.-7Z
TO TlIK v^ ., ^J''^^ - ■ fl; Co
i ORDER. OF iC-r^- f^-^-^.^ \^ ; .? ./^
For /2>^/<^^^-.rv J^..^\-j^' ' _-_
The Banic of Winterville
winterville. n. c.
i:R0E.E."'0'i7E":
Mr. IManuel. Would you identify ]VIi\ Hardin for the committee?
Mr. Williams. I don't know him.
Mr. Manuel. You never heard of Mr. Hardin?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. To your direct knowledge did the Klan have attor-
neys in the first place to whom they could pay attorneys' fees?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know what happened to that money?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. The check was made to cash and was cashed. You
don't know what happened to the money?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I would like to state to the committee
that investigation has shown that on this same date, October 22, 1965,
that account was closed at that particular bank.
The Chairman. Were there any criminal cases or other matters
pending in the courts when they drew that check for lawyers' fees
that you know of?
Mr. Williams. No, sir. It was never discussed.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know that on that particular date as a matter
of fact the account was closed at the bank?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Was that report made to the membership ?
Mr. Williams. We were told we were broke.
Mr. Manuel. And as a member, you did not know of the $998 and
some odd cents that was in the account at that time ; is that correct ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir ; I didn't know about it.
^Mr. Manuel. Mr. Williams, as a member of the two units of the
Ku Klux Klan, did you have any knowledge of money going directly
from the Klavern to the office of tlie Grand Dragon, Mr. James
Robertson Jones ?
Mr. Williams. Only what Louis Tyson told me one time that he
got most of tlie dues that were paid into the Klavern.
Mr. Manlt-^l. That is, Mr. Jones got most of the dues?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Manuel. Was that money paid directly to Mr. Jones, to your
knowledge?
Mr. Williams. 1 don't know. He said it went to the State office.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2893
]Mi\ Manuel. Again, Mr. Williams, I would like to show you a series
of checks which the committee has obtained by subpena from The
Bank of Winterville, Winterville, North Carolina, of the Benevolent
Association of Greenville, North Carolina. This series of checks is
all made payable to James R. Jones, the first dated April 7, 1965,
and the last dated the 10th of September 1965 and they collectively
total $264.25.
I would like to show you this series of checks and ask you to
identify the persons who signed those checks.
Mr. Williams. R. E. Everett and L. H. Tyson.
(Checks marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 6." One of said
checks follows ; balance retained in conunittee files. )
George Williams Exhibit No. 6
■i'O TllK // /■? // v_ 6 ■■ /
33
^■^-^.■:-
•^
■>V/cr-n ^ _.; p.^, T .->..■ ,
The Bank of Winterville
winterville. n. c.
i:S0E,E."'0li7H": ■:.'''
Mr, Manuel. Were those persons known to you at that period of
time to be officers in the Greenville Unit of the Ku Klux Klan ?
Mr. Williams. Only one.
Mr. Manuel. Did you know the other ?
Mr. Williams. Only as a member.
Mr. ISLvNUEL. Only as a member ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. And to your knowledge he did not have, as an ordi-
nary member, power to sign checks ?
Mr. Williams. To my knowledge he didn't.
Mr. Manuel. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Williams, I would like to show you one other check which
was made on behalf of the Benevolent Association of Greenville,
North Carolina, signed by R. E. Everett and L. H. Tyson in the
amount of $500, payable to Cannon's Warehouse. The notation on
the check says: "Ellis Peaden note Money He gave Charles Edward
for a cause" and then there is a question mark. I would like to show
you that check and ask you to explain the significance of the notation
and whatever other knowledge you possess of that check.
Mr. Williams. This check was paid to somebody in Greenville that
had loaned Charlie Edwards $500 that Charlie had gone to and said
some of the boys in the Klan were in jail and he needed the cash money
to get them out because he didn't want nobody signing no bonds. But
as far as Ellis Peaden, Ellis Peaden signed a note also for Charlie for
$500 with whicli he bouglit a car from Bright Leaf Motors for $1,000.
(Check marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 7" follows:)
2894 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE tJ.S.
George Williams Exhibit No. 7
36
^H • ( ■ • •» , ,.>■• / ,1*.
!)fjl f. MtS
/00000 50CC. .'
Mr. Manuel. The Charles Edwards referred to was at that time a
State officer of the Realm of North Carolina of the United Klans of
America ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. I don't know who loaned him the money.
I heard it discussed whether the Klan should pay it back or let the man
get it out of Charlie Edwards. The Klan paid it back to keep the
publicity out of the Klan.
Mr. Manuel. As I understand, Mr. Edwards got $500 out of Can-
non's Warehouse which the Klan got back and $500 from Mr. Peaden,
and the sum he received, which totaled $1,000, was used to purchase an
automobile ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. What action did the Klan take concerning Mr. Ed-
wards following this discovery ?
Mr. Williams. They called Bob Jones and he had Mr. Edwards re-
moved from the Klavern.
Mr. Manuel. In other words, Mr. Edwards was removed by Mr.
Jones for misappropriation of funds ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. And although to your knowledge Mr. Edwards was
a leader of the Klan in Plymouth, North Carolina, he was not removed
from the Klan for that reason ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Manuel. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Willis, the staff has no further questions of this witness.
The Chairman. I have just one or two questions.
Mr. Williams, you said you joined the Klan because you had attended
a meeting and had lieard the speeches made and discussions to the effect
that they stood for segregation of the races, or not a mixing of white
and colored people ; is that correct %
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you believed in that ?
Mr, Williams. Yes, sir.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 2895
Tlie Chairman. Later on you went to Plymouth and I think you said
an incident occurred that you have described whereby, in whatever way
it happened, you were shot by a colored man ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. But, despite that, you quit the Klan ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is that because you don't believe that klanism is the
right way to go about this problem ?
Mr. WiLLL\MS. I believe now that Klan life is the lowest life that
you can get. I would like to see any man that thought of joining the
Klan, I wish he could see me before he got in. I would like to tell him
what he is getting into.
The Chairjnian. It is just no good ?
Mr. Williams. That is right.
Mr. Manuel. Going back to the incident in Plymouth, Mr. Williams,
who paid your hospitalization and doctor bills as a result of your being
wounded ?
Mr. Williams. The Klan paid.
Mr. Manuel. And how did the Klan pay for this, to your knowl-
edge?
Mr. Williams. Louis Tyson paid it by his personal check.
Mr. Manuel. He was treasurer of your local unit at that time ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Manuel. One other question : At the time you were a member
of the Klan, was there at any time discussed in the Klan the fact that
Klansmen should purchase weapons, guns?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. They told us we all should have a gun.
Mr. Manuel. And for what reason were you urged to buy a gim ?
Mr. Williams. For defense.
Mr. Manuel. And how many times, approximately, did this subject
come up while you were a member ?
Mr. Williams. I couldn't say the exact number of times, but it was
several times.
The Chairman. When you say for "defense," I would like to have
you talk a little bit more about that because another witness who, like
you, testified under oath and voluntarily, said that speeches were
made and Klansmen were told that they had to be prepared because
communism would take over and they would be the last to fight for
the country, and all that claptrap. In what context, in what way, did
they say you had to have guns for defense ?
Mr. Williams. There were several discussions of colored people,
known as the Deacons, they claimed was forming in eastern North
Carolina and that they were arming to protect the colored people.
The Chairman. To protect themselves against the colored people?
Mr. Williams. No, to protect the colored people against the whites.
It was discussed they were arming themselves as protectors of the
colored people, who were colored people.
The Chairman. I am not sure I follow you.
Mr. Williams. There was a band of colored people known as the
Deacons.
The Chairman. The Deacons. I have heard about them.
2896 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Williams. And they claimed they found out there Avas a unit
of them formed in Elizabeth City and we should be prepared for them
if they should come.
The Chairman. If the Deacons should attack the white people?
Mr. AViLLiAMS. Yes.
The Chairman. I see.
Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge as to where the Klan and
Klan members obtained their weapons ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir: only in different places they could go where
you could buy a gun without a permit. On one occasion they took up
collections on the floor and sent the monev to some man in Xorfolk,
Virginia, to get Army rifles.
Mr. Manuel. How much money was collected at that time ?
Mr. Williams. I am not sure, but I heard about $300.
Mr. Manuel. Do you know or had you heard they did actually order
guns from Norfolk, Virginia ?
Mr. Williams. I heard they did, but I never seen any.
Mr. Manuel. Did you yourself purchase one ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
The Chairman. I believe you also said that one of the reasons why
you joined the Klan was because of something having to do with elect-
ing officials who were against integration. Is that correct ?
Mr. Williams. Yes. In every rally that he goes to he is always
urging them to start to voting people in office that will be white men,
he said, because we need them in office now. He said to start with your
little constable on up.
The Chairman. By that you mean people who believe somewhat
like the Klan does?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Maybe I am putting words in your mouth. What
did they say about the election of public officials ?
Mr. Williams. He said : "If you don't believe in mixing races, we
want to vote out all of these colored lovers that we have in office."
The Chairman. You mean white colored lovers ?
Mr. Williams. Well, he didn't come out that way.
The Chairman. What did he say ?
Mr. Williams. He said he wanted to start down with the little con-
stable and put white men in office.
The Chairman. Good red-blooded American citizens, according to
his thinking?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
The Chairjman. I don't know how much they love me, but I will tell
you one thing — and I said this on the floor — there was a plan to send
a Klansman in my district to defeat me, and the very first witness on
the stand was Imperial Wizard Robert M. Shelton, and I read to him
a report I had on that score and I told him I welcomed liim and chal-
lenged him and dared him. Then I had some phone calls, too, though
not as bad as yours. But the veil is off and the secret is out, and they
just will make a lot of noise. They will not do a thing to me and they
will not do a thing to you.
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2897
There is a Federal law, and I will read it to you. That Federal law
reads^ — and I will omit words that are unnecessary :
Whoever * * * intimidate [s] * * * any witness * * * in connection with any
inquiry or investigation being had by either House, or any committee of either
House, or any joint committee of the Congress ; or
* * « « « * *
Shall be fined not more than $.5,000 or imprisoned not more than five
years or both. * * *
Now, you are appearing here under subpena. You liave that Fed-
eral law to protect you. Nothing will happen. Don't you worry. I am
glad you told that guy, "You know where I am. I will meet you in
5 minutes." Nobody showed up and nobody will sliow^ up.
I have said this before, and I will say again, I congratulate you.
I think you have shown fortitude and courage and common ordinary
guts in coming here and saying what you did, and you are making
a great contribution to your country. And I repeat what I said on
the floor yesterday, others will follow suit. I am just as sure about
that as I am sitting here, and I am very sure the Klans are reducing
and I hope and think they soon will be foldmg up. A lot of the mem-
bers are not attending meetings, a lot of them are quitting, and that
will continue. I appreciate your appearance.
Mr. AsHBRooK. I certainly join in what the chairman said and I
would say, in your activities you have had up to this time and many
beliefs you have had that we might not agree with, you stand at least
10 feet taller than those members of the Klan who will be derogatory
of you.
On the one cited incident of violence you testified to, I would like
some amplification. Aside from the specific instructions you received —
I believe you said there were eight men appointed to carry out this
specific act — was there any indication at that time or later which would
lead you to believe this was at the behest of any State or national lead-
ers of the Klan, or was it strictly a local project ?
Mr. Williams. Mr. Edwards told us the Vanceboro Unit wanted
this done. AVhen they want a job done, they generally bring somebody
else from another unit to do it.
Mr. AsHBRooK. So it would be your impression or understanding
that this was done not by your local Klan organization, but at the
behest of higher-ups, so to speak ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. AsHBRooK. Then there wasn't any repercussion, I believe you
stated, insofar as it was not specifically carried out ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. AsHBRooK. That is all I had, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Mr. Senner.
Mr. Senner. Mr. Williams, what did you say Harry Ferguson's
occupation is ?
Mr. Williams. He is a farmer.
Mr. Senner. And Edwards?
Mr. Williams. He was a logger and at the time he was in the Klan
he was chief of police of Grimesland.
Mr. Senner. Who was the justice of the peace ?
Mr. Williams. Louis Tyson.
2898 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Mr. Senner. Is he the individual you identified as the signatory on
one of the checks ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Senner. Is he still a justice of the peace ?
Mr. Williams. Yes.
Mr. Sexner. Is that an elective position or an appointive position ?
Mr. Williams. He is elected.
Mr. Senner. Has his identity with the Klan been publicly exposed
except the speech of the chief of police that was made the other day ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. When you talked to Grand Dragon J. R. Jones relative
to the possibility of being subpenaed here, were you subpenaed in
fact by this committee ?
Mr. Williams. Not then.
Mr. Senner. Not then ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. What did Mr. Jones state to you at the time you had
the conversation with him?
Mr. Williams. He said he did not know whether I would be sub-
penaed or not, but if I did to get in touch with him and he would tell
me what to do.
Mr. Senner. What was the date of that conversation ? What I am
trying to establish is whether Mr. J. R. Jones had been subpenaed at
the time you had this conversation with him.
Mr. Williams. He had been subpenaed.
Mr. Senner. He had been subpenaed ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. Do you recall the date of the conversation ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. But it was the date you were holding a rally ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. And had you been subpenaed when you received the
telephone call with this threat from David Bunting?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. "VYhich was last Sunday ?
Mr. Williams. Yes, sir.
Mr. Senner. You had not received a subpena at that time ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
Mr. Senner. And you testified under oath that to your knowledge
Charles Edwards is still a Klansman although he is not in the United
Klans of America but in the North Carolina Klans ?
Mr. Williams. Charlie Edwards was kicked out of the Klan for
misusing money.
Mr. Senner. Has he joined Catfish Cole?
Mr. Williams. No.
Mr. Senner. That is all.
Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a comment for
the record that in going over certain facts with Mr. Williams he has
identified for the committee additional Klavems which operate in the
ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2899
province he operated in, and I would like to identify the Klaverns he
cited for us :
In Pitt County, the Pactolus Unit, of which he was a member.
In Washington Coimty, Plymouth Unit.
In Beaufort Coimty, Belhaven Unit.
In Hyde Coimty, Swanquarter Unit.
In Greene County, Walstonburg Unit.
In Chowan Coimty, a Klavem at Edenton.
I would like also to state for the record that continuing investiga-
tion of the activities of the United Klans of America by this committee
has established that two individuals whom Mr. Williams touched on,
Boyd Hamby and George Dorsett, both former realm officers of the
North Carolina Realm of the Ku Klux Klan of America, have been
assigned to act as organizers in the State of Florida and are operating
out of Titusville, Florida.
The Chairman. Is Mr. Dorsett one of the Klansmen who has been
cited for contempt ?
Mr. JSIanuel. Yes, sir; and he is also an imperial officer of the
United Klans of America.
The Chairman. Mr. Buchanan.
Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Williams, you are obviously a man of honesty
and courage and I thank you for your testimony before this committee.
Frankly, sir, you have made more sense to me than the entire higher
echelon of the United Klans of America put together to date, at least
in their statements that have come to my attention.
One of these statements is printed here in a newspaper article I
have. This is called the Fiery Cross and is supposed to be the official
publication of the United Klans of America. It is the first one I
have ever seen and may be the first one ever produced, but in it is a
story from Mr. Shelton's point of view of the testimony of various
members of his organization before this committee. And on the front
page is a memorandum from Imperial Wizard Shelton which includes
these words concerning the United Klans :
Our dedication to God, our country, our flag:, our homes, and our loyalty to the
principles of Constitutional Government IS NOT FOR SALE OR OPEN TO
XEGOTIATIOX.
Steadfast in devotion to principles the UKA haJs been in [sic] now. and for-
ever will be regardless of intimidation, harrassment [sic], name-calling and
threats. Ours is a righteous cause, and all the Legions of Hell cannot prevail
against it.
Would this, in your opinion, be an accurate picture of the United
Klans of America ?
Mr. Williams. No, sir.
(Document marked "George Williams Exhibit No. 8" follows:)
2900 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
George Williams Exhibit No. 8
[The Fiery Cross, p. 1]
of the HUAC.
Over the weekend I have tieen in com-
munication, by telephone and otherwise, with
all Dragons and the loyal, dedicated Imperial
Officers of the UKA; and instructions are
going out — North, South, East and West — to
step up, despite adverse winter weather con-
ditions — rallies and public speakings. This
is no time to slow down activities.
This is no time to go to sleep at the switch
in the struggle against the evils of Communism,
Civil Righters' defiance of law and order, draft
card burners and other traitors to the princi-
ples of government upon which our nation was
built.
Now IS THE TIME to i-e dedicate ourselves —
as individuals and as a group —to the objectives
which led us to become Klansmen in the first
place.
Gird your loins for the continuing fight against
International and native -nurtured Communism,
regardless of whether it is found in government,
honey-combed in Civil RightsGroups, or among
card-burning, traitorous draft dodging beat-
niks. Let's fight, as we have never fought
before, for our God-given heritage.
Let no man or group of men be misled
into thinking we will be detoured from our
course and dedication. Our dedication to God,
our country, our flag, our homes, and our
loyalty to the principles of Constitutional
Government IS NOT FOR SALE OR OPEN TO
NEGOTIATION.
Steadfast in devotion to principles the UKA
has been in now, and forever will be regardless
of intimidation, harrassment, name-calling and
threats. Ours is a righteous cause, and all the
Legions of Hell cannot prevail against it.
Robert M. Shelton,
Imperial Wizard.
WE SHALL NOT BE INTIMIDATED
Memorandum
To: All Members of the United Klans of America
Subject: THE RO.M3 AHE.-U3
HUAC {The House Committee onUn.\meri-
ran Activities). succumMng to the urging of n
panic-stricken staff which sees its house of
cards crumbUng before its very eyes, has
voted to recommend contempt citations .igainst
me and six other officials of the UKA.
This frantic action was taken in an effort
to arm the staff with another weapon of in-
timidation against witnesses scheduled to ap-
pear before the Committee in the future. I
confidently predict it will prove to be another
dud. Klansmen - with few exceptions - are
men of honor and integrity, and regard their
oath as sacred.
Only a man who already has the blood of
Judas running through his veins will fall for
this newest intimidation gimmick and become
a pitiful victim of the false promises and
look -out -or-the-goblins-will-get-you threats
i
Mr. BuciL\NAN. I thank you for your testimony.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Williams. You are
excused.
The subcommittee will stand in recess until 10 a.m., Tuesday, Feb-
ruary 1, 1966.
(Whereupon, at 4 p.m., Friday, January 28, 1966, the subcommittee
recessed to reconvene Tuesday, February 1, 1966.)
o
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