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Full text of "Activities of Ku Klux Klan organizations in the United States. Hearings before the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Eighty-ninth Congress, first[-second] session"

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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS 

IN THE UNITED STATES 

PARTS 

{.'Ar'.?:.:' ct::''": usrahv 

OtPOSlTEO BY THE 
{JNITEO STATES GOVERNMENT 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



FEBRUARY 14, 15, 21, 23, AND 24, 1966 ; SEPTEMBER 29, JULY 28, 

AUGUST 24, AND OCTOBER 6, 1965; AND JANUARY 28, 1966 

(INDEX IN SEPARATE VOLUME) 



Printed for the use of the 
Committee ou Un-American Activities 




CONTENTS 



February 14, 1966: Testimony of — Page 

William Hugh Morris 3484 

Afternoon session: 

William Hugh Morris (resumed) 3510 

Eloise Witte 3525 

Earl Donald Holcombe 3546 

February 15, 1966: Testimony of — 

Colbert Raymond McGriff, Jr 3554 

Marlin Price 3560 

John Max Mitchell 3564 

Afternoon session: 

Curtis Alvin King 3570 

James R. Venable 3572 

February 21, 1966: Testimony of— 

Richard Joseph Hanna 3622 

Afternoon session: 

Richard Joseph Hanna (resumed) 3654 

Eunice Grover Fallaw 3656 

Robert Pittman Gentry 3665 

Jacky Don Harden 3674 

Saint Elmo Mattox, Sr 3679 

BartonH. Griffin 3682 

Donald Eugene Spegal 3688 

Willie Eugene Wilson 3694 

Buddie Sammy Cooper 3700 

Kenneth Marvin Overstreet 3705 

February 23, 1966: Testimony of— 

Noel Woodrow Wood 3710 

Robert Sylvester Arant 3714 

John Lee Stoudenmire 3717 

Richard Edgar Kersey 3728 

Joseph Thomas Huett, Sr 3739 

Donald Joseph Ballentine 3743 

Leon Aspinwall 3748 

Afternoon session: 

Jack Harold Grantham, Sr 3752 

Charles Baker Riddlehoover 3768 

February 24, 1966: Testimony of— 

Jesse Benjamin Stoner 3804 

EXECUTIVE TESTIMONY RELEASED 

September 29, 1965: Testimony of — 

Robert Pittman Gentry 3831 

Afternoon session: 

Robert Pittman Gentry (resumed) 3850 

July 28, 1965: Testimony of— 

Royal Virgin Young, Sr 3854 

Afternoon session: 

Royal Virgin Young, Sr. (resumed) 3865 

August 24, 1965: Testimony of — 

Raymond Duguid Mills 3896 

October 6, 1965: Testimony of — 

James R. Venable — 3937 

Afternoon session: 

James R. Venable (resumed) 397 1 

January 28, 1966: Testimony of— 

George Alvm Otto 3992 

Index in separate volume. 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-Ameri- 
can Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946]; 60 
Stat. 812, which provides: 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 

H; ***** * 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

(q)(l) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcom- 
mittee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and at- 
tacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, 
and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to 
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such 
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times o.nd places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports 
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of 
the Government. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1966 

United States House of Kepresentatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 
public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
as reconstituted for the February 14 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, 
at 10 a.m., in the Caucas Room, Cannon House Office Building, Wash- 
ington, D.C, Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, 
chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and Del Clawson, of 
California.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Clawson. 
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, 
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. 
Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

The Chair wishes to first read the appointment of the subcommittee 
to hear the hearings this morning : 

Febbuaby 11, 1966. 
To : Mr. Francis J. McNamaba, 

Director, Committee on Un-American Activities. 
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
sisting of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner 
and Honorable Del Clawson as associate members, to conduct hearings in Wash- 
ington, D.C, on Monday, February 14, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution 
adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings 
concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the 
United States. 
Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 
Given under my hand this 11th day of February, 1966. 

/s/ Edwin E. Willis 
Edwin E. Wh-lis 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 
Call your witness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call Mr. Wil- 
liam Hugh Morris. 

Mr. Pool. Would you raise your right hand ? 

3483 



3484 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Morris. I do. 

TESTIMOITY OF WILLIAM HUGH MOERIS 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, would you please state your full name 
for the record, please ? 

Mr. Morris. William Hugh Morris. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time, do you desire a counsel ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you had the advice of counsel prior to your 
appearance before the committee ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Give him the clause concerning the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you aware there is available to you constitutional 
privileges, including that of the fifth amendment, to protect you from 
possible self-incrimination ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, I am very familiar with the Constitution of the 
United States. 

Mr. Pool. If at any time you desire counsel, if you will notify the 
Chair, we will stop and discuss it and give advice on any matter per- 
taining to that. 

Mr. Morris. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, have you been provided wnth a copy of 
the chairman's opening statement which he issued in October of 1965 ? 

Mr. Morris. I suppose this is it; yes, sir, I just got a copy today. 
I have not read it. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read it ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Manuel. You are not familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I am not, really. 

Mr. Pool. I think, Mr. Manuel, in view of that statement, I think 
that he should be allowed to step aside and call another witness. 

Mr. Morris. I will waive that. I haven't got anything to hide, so 
reading this would not alter my testimony one iota. I am quite sure 
of that. 

Mr. Pool. I would think we would prefer that you read the opening 
statement and be familiar with its contents. If you will step aside we 
will call the next witness. 

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes to allow you to 
read the opening statement. 

For the benefit of the press and the audience, the Chair wishes to 
announce that we will adjourn at 12 o'clock today and come back at 
4 o'clock and probably go to about 6 :30 today so you can arrange your 
schedule. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee members 
present at time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representatives 
Pool and Clawson.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3485 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, please take the stand again. 

Have you read the chairman's opening statement, Mr. Morris? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you familiar with its cqntents? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please state the date and place of your 
birth? 

Mr. Morris. Douglas County, Georgia; January 17, 1905. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you give the committee a brief resume of 
your educational background ? 

Mr. Morris. Not very much formal education. 

Mr, Manuel. Specifically, sir, how much formal education did you 
have ? 

Mr. Morris. About 10th grade. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your 
occupational background since 1950? 

Mr. Morris. I have been a contractor. 

Mr. Manuel. In what type of business, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. Roofing and siding and related work, home improve- 
ments as it is usually called. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you engaged in that business from 1950 to the 
present ? 

Mr. Morris. I have engaged in that business since 1927. 

Mr. Manuel. Wliere do you currently reside, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. My permanent residence is Buchanan, Georgia. Due 
to illness in my wife's family, I am in Birmingham at the present time. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, have you ever been a member of a Ku 
Klux Klan organization ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; since 1924. 

Mr. Manuel. What organization did you first become a member of ? 

Mr. Morris. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. How long did you maintain membership in that or- 
ganization ? 

Mr. Morris. Until it w^as disbanded. 

Mr. Manuel. What year was that, sir ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know if I am correct — about 1943, I believe 
1944. 

Mr. Pool. Mr Manuel, did you ask him if he read the chairman's 
opening statement ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir; he said he had. I asked him if he was 
familiar with the contents, and he said he was. 

Mr. Morris, did you ever hold any office in the old Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee what offices 
you held and the period of time which you held those offices, or that 
office? 

Mr. Morris. It has been a long time ago. I have held every office 
there is in the Klan from klexter on. 

Mr. Manuel. I am speaking specifically of the period between 1924 
and 1943. 

Mr. Morris. I understand that ; yes, sir. I was naturalized in the 
Klan in my hometown of Douglasville, Georgia, in 1924, Douglasville 



3486 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Klan No. 50. I went to Birmingham in 1927 and transferred my 
membership to Klan No. 60. 

Then I transferred my membership to Robert E. Lee Khm No. 1, 
and there is where it remained until the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
operated. 

Mr. Manuel. Wliere was Robert E. Lee Klan No. 1 ? 

Mr. Morris. It was located in Birmingham. 

Mr. Manuel. In Birmingham, Alabama ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold membership in another Ku Klux Klan 
organization after your membership in the old Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. I had formed the Federated Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. What year w^as that? 

Mr. Morris. I believe it was incorporated in 1944 or 1945. 

Mr. Manuel. How long did the Federated Ku Klux Klan remain 
in existence? 

Mr. Morris. Some 4 or 5 years. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you give the committee a date as to when? 

Mr. Morris. As to when it actually ceased to operate, when my 
house burned, of course, all of my furniture and everything had burned 
with it and I can't — as I get a little older, dates sort of run together. 

Shortly after Dr. Green died — at that time there was two, the Fed- 
erated and the Associated. Dr. Green formed the Associated Georgia 
Klan after the old Knights of the Ku Klux Klan suspended opera- 
tion and we formed the Federated Klans in Alabama. 

There was cooperation between the two groups but there was no 
actual affiliation. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold any position or title in the Federated 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I was elected, at some time of its operation, I was 
elected its Imperial Wizard. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold the title of Imperial Wizard at the time 
the Federated Klan ceased to operate ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Where did the Federated Klans operate geographi- 
cally? 

Mr. Morris. In Alabama. 

Mr. Manuel. Solely in Alabama ? 

Mr. Morris. Solely in Alabama. 

Mr. Manuel. After your membership in the Federated Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, did you hold membership in any other organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you since the Federated Klan ceased to operate, 
have you held membership in any other Klan organization ? 

Mr. Morris. Not actual membership in the common terminology. 
I was instrumental in forming the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. I signed its charter and I was on its board for some little short 
time. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you a member of that organization ? 

Mr. Morris. Not a dues-paying member ; no, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3487 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you served on the board ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe we held two meetings. I believe that is cor- 
rect, two board meetings, and then 1 resigned. 

Mr. Manuel. You resigned from what ? 

Mr. Morris. From the board. 

Mr. Manuel. Have 3^ou ever held membership in an organization 
called the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan since your resignation from 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. I am one of the founders and was elected the 
Emperor. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you currently hold a position of Emperor in the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. That is correct. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, are you appearing before the committee 
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you at 9 :30 a.m. 
on the 4th day of February 1966 at 330 Post Office Building, Birming- 
ham, Alabama, by Deputy Marshal Daniel Moore? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, an attachment made part of your subpena 
called for you to produce in paragraph 1 : 

All books, records, documents, cori'espondence and memoranda of the Fed- 
erated Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., for the period from 1949 to date, 
relating to its organization, business and affairs in your possession, custody or 
control as Imperial Wizard of the said organization which the constitution and 
by-laws of the said organization require or authorize you as such officer td 
maintain. 

Mr. Morris, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 1, I 
now ask you to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Morris. We have none. There is none in existence that I know 
of. 

Mr. Manuel. What happened to the records, Mr. Morris, that per- 
tain to the Federated Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. As I stated awhile ago, my home burned and all of my 
furniture and everything I had, and the records that pertained to that 
organization were in the house at that time. 

Mr. Manuel. Were all of the records to your organization, to your 
knowledge, destroyed ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. When did your house burn ? 

Mr. Morris. About — let's see, this is 1966. It was about 1954 or 
1955 at Waco, Georgia. I lived at Waco, Georgia, at that time. 

Mr. Pool. You have not been an officer in the Klan since then? 

Mr. Morris. Not in the Federated Klan. It was already out of 
existence at that time. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, paragraph 2 of your subpena calls for 
you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda of the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan, relating to its organization, business and affairs for the 
period from April, 1965, to date, in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by or available to you in your capacity as Emperor of said organization. 

Mr. Morris, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 2, 

I now ask you to produce the documents called for in that paragraph. 

Mr. Morris. I will have to answer you this way, sir. The Emperor 



3488 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

as designated in the constitution as being the philosophic and spiritual 
head and his duty is to promulgate the ritualism of the Klan. 

Now, I don't have any records of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
in my possession or control. 

Mr. Manuel. This, sir, also includes all books, records, documents, 
correspondence, and memoranda. 

Mr. Morris. I have some of the Klorans in my control, certainly, 
because I wrote them and I think you have one there. That is the 
Kloran of the K-DUO. 

Mr. Pool. You have already presented them to the staff. 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I have not, but I have one here. 

Mr. Pool. Do you want to present them to the staff now ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

(Document handed to Mr. Manuel.) 

(Document marked "William Morris Exhibit No. 1" and retained 
in committee files.) 

Mr. Manuel. Is this one document which you handed me, which 
is the Kloran of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Atlanta, Georgia, 
the only book or document or correspondence or piece of memoranda 
that you have in your possession or control ? 

Mr. Morris. I possibly have a few pieces of correspondence from 
different people that I did not have on this such short notice time to 
locate. 

Mr. Pool. How long would it take you to locate it? 

Mr. Morris. What I could find was possibly some communication — 
one or two letters from Mr. Stephens, two or three other letters I 
have, of course, and some application blanks. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any charters ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; we don't have a charter. 

Mr. Pool. If we continue your subpena, would you furnish them 
to the staff? 

Mr. Morris. What I have and that which I can locate, I will be 
glad to. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, as Emperor of the Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, are you the chief executive officer of that organization? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I am as I stated, the philosophical and spiritual 
head of the order. My sole job is to develop the Kloranic orders of the 
Klan which have not been developed. 

Mr. Manuel. Who is the chief executive officer of the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. We really have none. 

Mr. Manuel. How is it governed or ruled ? 

Mr. Morris. I will have to explain to you this way, sir : The Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan — the idea behind forming the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan was to develop the ritual of the three orders that never 
had actually been developed. In 1922 when the machinery was set 
in motion to oust Mr. Simmons, the Klan only had the one degree or 
order and that was the Probationary or Border Realm of Klankraft. 

After he was ousted, Dr. Evans did attempt to promulgate two 
other degrees which — it w^as no continuing of Klankraft. So out of 
the unpublished manuscripts of Colonel Simmons, I have been devel- 
oping the K-DUO which I have developed and which is available. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3489 

Mr. Manuel. These are the four degrees. 

Mr. Morris. These are the four degrees of the Klan. This one^has 
never been communicated and that is why the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan was formed to have a vehicle. 

There is no such thing as a Knight in the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, Kloranically or ritualistically speaking, because there has only 
been one degree that has been developed. 

It is like any other fraternal organization, any that I know any- 
thing about, it takes at least three to complete the ritualism and make 
you a bona fide member of any fraternal organization. Of course, 
there are some where there are higher degrees that you can go on up 
and up and up. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever initiated persons into the first degree 
of Klansmanship or what you call the K-UNO ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Does initiation into that degree of^ Klansmanship 
make a person a member of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, before we get away from the question on 
the subpena there, what official did have control of these books, docu- 
ments, and records and other things called for in the subpena ? 

Mr. Morris. So far as I know, we actually have none. 

Mr. Pool. You have no records ? 

Mr. Morris. We have not actually projected it and put it into op- 
eration. I w^as trying to explain what we were going to do. 

Mr. Pool. No other official in your organization has any records as 
called for in the subpena ? 

Mr. Morris. Not to my knowledge, sir, not to my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Pool. How about correspondence? 

Mr. Morris. Let me say this : I will modify that to say that perhaps 
Mr. Venable has some that is mixed in with the National Knights. 

Mr. Pool. He has copies of letters he has written ; hasn't he ? 

Mr. Morris. I suppose so. He is the counsel for the Klan. 

Mr. Pool. Did you ever get any kind of a letter from Mr. Venable ? 

Mr. Morris. Concerning the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, or any matter. 

Mr. Morris. Certainly. 

Mr. Pool. So he should have copies of the letters he sent to you. 

Mr. Morris. It is possible if it pertained to the Klan and it is possi- 
ble if it is insignificant I wouldn't have it now. 

Mr. Pool. Would you also include any letters that you received 
from Mr. Venable or any other official in the Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Any that I have. I don't keep all of them. There are 
some that are not of any importance, and I don't have a capacity for 
doing a lot of filing. 

Mr. Manuel. Along that same line, Mr. Chairman, I would like to 
ask Mr. Morris if he retained copies of various documents he sent to 
various individuals, under his own signature, making them officials or 
organizers in the organization known as the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. And in asking Mr. Morris this question, I would like to show 
him two such documents in the committee's possession, one making 
B. J. Stephens a great titan of Province No. 2 for the Kealm of Ohio 



3490 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

and one making Robert "Annabelle" a great titan for Province No. 3 
of the Realm of Ohio. 

Mr, Morris. I don't think that I have kept a copy. I probably made 
a notation. I know who they are. 

(Documents previously marked "Bobby Stephens Exhibits Nos. 
8 and 9," respectively. See pp. 3415, 3416.) 

Mr, Pool. Would you like to name who they are ? This would be a 
good point for you to name them. 

Mr. Morris. I appointed Mr. Stephens and Mr. Harris and I note 
Mr. Lewis of Akron. I made him the kleagle. 

I had had several conferences with Mr. Annable and I had thor- 
oughly explained to him what, according to my knowledge, the Klan 
was, and he was interested and he had it under consideration, and I 
did send, because I needed a man of his caliber, and I did send this to 
Mr. Stephens to give to him with the instruction if he became a mem- 
ber, of course, he couldn't be an official unless he was a member. That 
would be ridiculous. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Stephens an official ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he a member ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manual. How many degrees of Klankraft did he take to 
become a member of the Ku Klux Klan? You just stated if a man 
just received K-UNO or the first degree, he does not become a member. 
Now, how did Mr. Stephens become a member? 

Mr. Morris. He is not a Knight. He cannot be a Knight until he 
receives the fourth degree. That does not make him a Knight. That 
makes him a Knight of the second degree or the beginning of Knight- 
hood. 

Mr. Manuel. What is the status of the person who just takes the 
first degree ? 

Mr. Morris. He is a Citizen of the Invisible Empire, that is, if 
he has been properly instructed, he becomes a Citizen of the Invisible 
Empire with the title. 

Mr. Manual. Is the Citizen the same thing as a member of the 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. He is a member of the Probationary or the Border 
Realm. He has the title of Klansman, which is a borrowed title and 
he is on probation, he is on trial, and if he proves himself worthy, 
then he can apply for membership in the higher orders or degrees. 
Then, according to the constitution, he is selected for these higher 
degrees. If he, for some reason — if his character is not sufficient or 
if he does not understand and has not been inculcated, then he wouldn't 
be advanced any further. 

Mr. Pool, It looks to me like you have so many different degrees of 
his status, you ought to keep memoranda to see what steps or level he 
is on. 

Mr. Morris. Sir, this has never actually been instituted yet. We 
are laying the groundw^ork. We are going to form this out of members 
of various Klan groups 

Mr. Pool. Did you write letters on everything or did you make some 
oral appointments ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3491 

Mr. Morris. Sir? 

Mr. Pool. Were some of your appointments oral and some written ? 

Mr. Morris. I haven't any appointments that are not written. 

Mr. Pool. So you would have copies of everything? 

Mr. Morris. I can tell you — have already stated to the committee 
who they are. 

Mr. Pool. You have a very big organization, and it looks to me 
like you would get confused if you didn't keep any records. 

Mr. Morris. We don't have a big organization. We are just getting 
the groundwork laid and we have not actually put it into physical 
operation. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, I am a little bit confused about the status 
of the two organizations, the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which was organized after 
the National Ivnights. 

Could you tell me why it was necessary to start the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan when the National Knights were already in existence 
in Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. Well, sir, it is probably due for sentimental reasons, 
perhaps. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was a continuation of 
the old Klan under reconstruction days. 

I simply wanted to become a member of the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan again, without anything before it or behind it, and I wanted to 
develop the ritualism of the Klan and let it be a memorial to Colonel 
Simmons, who started it and was not allowed to finish it. 

If that is a worthy motive, that is my motive for doing that. 

Mr. Manuel. Taking the Realm of Ohio, which was first developed, 
as the committee understands it, by the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan in the autumn of 1964, after the organization of the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the organization Avhich you belong to, 
did you assume the members of what was previously the National 
Knights? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What was the status of those members in the Na- 
tional Knights after you organized the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Those that wanted to remain in the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan were free to do so. This was not a proselyting 
expedition that I was on. Mr. Venable and I are friends. We prob- 
ably don't agree with each other on everything, and I don't know 
everybody who does, but we are not at swords points, we are not 
fighting each other. 

I don't care what Klan operates where so long as it is decent and 
respectable and does carry out this ritualism and does conduct itself 
as a Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mr. Venable a member of the Imperial Kloncilium ? 

Mr. Morris. He is our attorney. 

Mr. Manuel. Is he also a member of the Imperial Kloncilium ? 

Mr. Morris. As an attorney, he would be ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Does he hold any other title within the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 



3492 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. What is his title in the National Knights of the Ku 
KluxKlan? 

Mr. Morris. He is the Imperial Wizard. 

Mr, Manuel. What other members are there on the Imperial Klon- 
cilium of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. There is the Imperial Kloncilium, which has not ac- 
tually been completed because we are handpicking good men out of 
the various Klan oragnizations so that they may select the rank-and- 
file membership who are worthy. 

Mr. Manuel. How many members of the Imperial Kloncilium 
are there as of this minute ? 

Mr. Morris. There are 12. 

Mr. Manuel. How many ? 

Mr. Morris. Twelve. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you name the 12 individuals who comprise the 
Imperial Kloncilium of the Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I am oath-bound and honor-bound not to 
reveal their names. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you decline to answer the question 
on the basis of your Klan oath ? 

Mr. Morris. On my Klan oath and on my honor, I have given my 
word and my honor. 

Mr. Pool. What is the question, Mr. Manuel? 

Mr. Manuel. I asked Mr. Morris to identify the 12 members of the 
Imperial Kloncilium of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Mr. Mor- 
ris' answer is because of his Klan oath and because he is honor-bound 
to do so he refuses to answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Morris, I direct and order you to answer the question. 

Mr. Morris. Sir, I will respectfully decline to do so on the grounds 
of the 1st, 5th, and 14th amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Including the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You are talking about the self-incrimination clause. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; and the fourth amendment that guarantees 
me under the Constitution. 

Mr. Pool. Is that the reason you are invoking the fifth amendment 
because of the self-incrimination part of it? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to continue with the reading of Mr. 
Morris' subpena. 

Paragraph 3, Mr. Morris, in your subpena, calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., relating to its organization, business and 
affairs for the period from 1963 to date, in your possession, custody or control 
and which by the constitution and by-laws of said corporation are required or 
authorized to be maintained by or available to you as Imperial Emperor of 
said corporation. 

Mr. Morris. Sir, I am not the "Imperial Emperor" of that organiz- 
ation because there is no such title, in the first place, as an Imperial 
Emperor. In the second place, as I so stated, I am no longer a member 
of the Imperial Kloncilium and I have no records. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever had any records? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3493 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. In that capacity. 

Mr. Morris. Sir? 

Mr. Pool. In that capacity. 

Mr. Morris. In that capacity or any capacity in the National 
Knights — I have never had any documents. 

Mr. Pool. Books, memoranda. 

Mr. Morris. What I had I reproduced the original concerning 
Simmons' Kloran of the K-DUO and I gave them to Mr. Venable 
sometime ago. 

Mr. Pool. So your statement now is that you do not have any 
records 

Mr. Morris. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool. In accordance with the subpena of paragraph 3. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Maxuel. Paragraph 4 of your subpena, Mr. Morris, calls upon 
you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda of tbe Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute, Mr. Manuel. 
Did you say you don't think so, or "I do not"? 
Mr. Morris. I do not have any. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 4 of your subpena, Mr. Morris calls upon 
you to produce: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda of the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan relating to its organization, business and affairs, in your 
possession, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you in your 
capacity as a member of the Imperial Kloncilium of the said Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan. 

Now, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 4, I ask 
you to produce any books, documents, or records which you have in 
your possession, or available to you. 

Mr. Morris. My answer to that would have to be the same as it 
was to the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. My position would be the 
same and my answer would be the same to that as it was to the other 
question. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, as far as the organization of the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is concerned, you will produce all docu- 
ments that you have in your possession, custody, or control? 

Mr. Morris. That is right, letters, you know, whatever — there 
wouldn't be very much of anything. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, did this include copies of all corre- 
spondence which you have had with other members of the Imperial 
Kloncilium? 

Mr. Morris. Any copies — I didn't make copies of all correspondence 
but the correspondence there was of any significance, I suppose I 
would have. 

Mr. Mani'el. To your knowledge, do the other members of the Im- 
perial Kloncilium of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan maintain 
and have records of that organization ? 

Mr. Morris. Not to my knowledge; no, sir, not to my knowledge; 
no, sir. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 2 



3494 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Is it your testimony that they do not ? 

Mr. Morris. That would be my testimony ; yes, sir. To my knowl- 
edge, they do not. I would see no reason for them to have any. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 5 of your subpena calls upon you to 
produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda of the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., relating to its organization, business 
and affairs, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by or available 
to you in your capacity as a member of the Imperial Kloncilium of said National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

Mr. Morris, as a member of the Imperial Kloncilium of the National 
Knights, I now ask you to produce the items called for in paragraph 5. 

Mr. Morris. In the first place, I am no longer a member and, in 
the second place, I don't have any, 

Mr. Manuel. Have you served as a member of the Imperial Klon- 
cilium of the National Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe for two meetings, two executive meetings only. 

Mr. Manuel. How many members are there of the Imperial Klon- 
cilium ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At the time of your membership on that body, how 
many members were there ? 

Mr. Morris. There were three. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you name the three persons who comprise the 
Imperial Kloncilium of the National Knights? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Venable, Mr. Hill, and myself— Mr. H. G. Hill, 
Mr. James R. Venable, Mr. H. G. Hill, and myself. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, why is it that you would respond to the 
identity of the members of the Imperial Kloncilium of the National 
Knights and yet refuse on the grounds of the fifth amendment to pro- 
vide the committee with the identity of the members of the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Now, that is a tricky question that I don't understand, 
sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Very simply, when I asked you to identify the mem- 
bers of the Imperial Kloncilium of the Kights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
you took the fifth amendment in refusing to answer that question. 

When I asked you to identify the members of the Imperial Klon- 
cilium of the National Knights you identified Mr. Venable, Reverend 
Hill, and yourself. 

My question was why did you take the fifth amendment in response 
to the question regarding the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and 
identify the members of the Imperial Kloncilium of the National 
Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. Because I felt it was necessary. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, naming the members of the National 
Knights, you feel, will not incriminate you, but naming the members 
of the Knights, you feel, will incriminate you as far as a future crim- 
inal proceeding is concerned ? 

Again, I only asked you for identity. 

Mr. Morris. Are you asking a question ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3495 

Mr. Morris. I f oel it is necessary. 

Mr. Manuel. I am only restricting my question to the Imperial 
Kloncilium and not the membership in general. 

Mr. Morris. I understand that. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, did you ever know Mrs. Eloise Witte to 
be an official member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I assumed that she was. 

Mr. Manuel. On what did you base that assumption ? 

Mr. Morris. On conversations with her and Mr. Venable. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, was Mrs. Witte appointed to 
any position in the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I can't honestly say to my knowledge. She was sup- 
posed to have been. 

Mr. Manuel. What title did Mrs. Witte have in that organization? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know her title, but she was supposed to be in 
charge of the women's organization for the National Knights. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever know her to go by the title of Grand 
Empress of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know whether she assumed that title or went 
under that title. I actually have no knowledge of lier going under any 
title, my personal knowledge. Of course, newspaper accounts showed 
her as Grand Empress and different titles, but so far as her saying to 
me that she was the Grand Empress or the Empress or whatever, I 
don't recall her ever telling me. 

She did tell me that she was supposed to be the head of the women's 
Klan in Ohio for Mr. Venable. 

Mr. Manuel. She did tell you that? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; at one time. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee, Mr. Morris, when she 
made that statement to you ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime during last summer. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you set an approximate date ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. I don't want to be evasive, but I don't know. 
It was some time between May and August. 

Mr. Manuel. When did you first meet Mrs. Witte, Mr. Morris? 

Mr. Morris. Three or four years ago. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee the circumstances under 
which you met Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Venable and myself was on our way to Columbus, 
Ohio, on invitation to address a rally for the National Association for 
the Advancement of White People and we stopped over in Cincinnati, 
and Mr. Venable had previously met Mrs. Witte, and he called her on 
the phone and talked to her and her husband, and they came down 
to the hotel and we talked for a while, and that w\as the first time I 
met her. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever give Mrs. Witte an oath making her — 
or the K-UNO oath in the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know if I gave her the oath or not, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Try to recall, please. Is it possible that you did? 

Mr. Morris. It is ])ossible that I did or someone else gave it to her. 

Mr. Pool. Would the witness pull the microphone closer to him so 
people can hear him ? 



3496 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Morris. I think she was a member, if that will answer your 
question. 

As to who gave her the obligation, she can answer that better than 
I can. I don't recall whether I gave it to her or whether somebody 
else did. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, do you know^ Daniel Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. When did you first meet Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. At Mrs. Witte's house. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mrs. Witte introduce you to Mr. Wagner? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What did Mrs. Witte say to you in introducing you 
to Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. She just introduced me to him as Danny Wagner. 

Mr. Manuel. Can you recall the approximate date on which you 
met Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime last summer. 

Mr. Manuel. Sometime last summer? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you meet Mr. Wagner prior to the rally which 
w^as held at Parkie Scott's farm ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. That rally was May 28 and 29. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, I came up to Ohio the first part of May and I met 
him sometime in the first w-eek or two that I w-as in Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. Again, in introducing you to Mr. Wagner, did Mrs. 
Witte make any statements to you regarding Mr. Wagner, his activi- 
ties, his character, his potential, or anything like that ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did not? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Wagner, to your direct knowledge, subse- 
quently become a member of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; he did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you at Akron, Ohio, on July 18, 1965, administer 
the K-UNO oath to Mr. Wagner in the presence of Mr. Bobby J. 
Stephens ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. You did not ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, has Mr. Wagner ever received 
that oath ? 

Mr. Morris. Unless he received it from Bobby Stephens, he has not, 
because he is not proper material. I would not associate with him in 
anything. 

Mr. Pool. We can't hear you. I asked you once to talk a little 
louder and into the microphone so people can hear what you have 
to say. 

Mr. Morris. I w^ould not invite him into my home and I would not 
tolerate his membership in the Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. On approximately July 5, 1965, was a letter read in 
your presence and also in the presence of Mr. Bobby J. Stephens, was 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3497 

the letter read by Verlin Gilliam outlining the conversations which 
Mr. Wagner had had with Mrs. Witte ? (See Bobby Stephens Exhibit 
No. 5, pp. 3398-S407.) 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What was your reaction to the reading of that par- 
ticular letter? 

Mr. Morris. It was surprise. I felt it was ridiculous. It is hard 
to describe my exact feelings — certainly not that of alarm. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any conversations with Mrs. Witte re- 
garding the contents of that letter ? 

Mr. Morris. We laughed about it ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What conversation did you have ? 

Mr. Morris. I asked her first did she know that she had been plot- 
ting to kill her husband, and she read it and said no, and we talked 
about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you question Mrs. Witte specifically concerning 
the portion of that letter which had to do with a plot to assassinate 
you? 

Mr. Morris. I mentioned it to her. 

Mr. Manuel. What was Mrs. Witte's reaction that time ? 

Mr. Morris. We both laughed about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she deny it ? 

Mr. Morris. Well, it was so ridiculous I don't know if she in so 
many words denied it. It was not necessary. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever see Daniel Wagner again after that 
letter was written to you ? 

Mr. Morris. Possibly so. I was in Columbus at that time, and he 
possibly came by Mr. Stephens' house on one or tw^o occasions. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you there at that time ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; I guess so. I think I seen him once or twice 
since the letter. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever see Mr. Wagner after you had conversa- 
tion with Mrs. Witte regarding the contents of the letter? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; I think so. I would say yes. 

Mr. Manuel. When and where was that? 

Mr. Morris. At Mr. Stephens'. 

Mr. Manuel. Did any conversation take place between you and 
Mr. Wagner at that time ? 

Mr. Morris. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Manuel. Again, your testimony is, after the reading of that 
letter, you are telling the committee that you never gave Mr. Wagner 
the oath, the K-TTNO oath at Akron, Ohio, on July 18, 1965 ? 

Mr. Morris. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you administer the oath at that time, on that 
date, to any individual ? 

Mr. Morris. I have never administered the oath or any part of the 
ritualism at any time in the presence of Mr. Wagner. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, would you please explain to the com- 
mittee the difference, if any, between administering K-UNO or the 
first degree to a potential Klansman as contrasted with giving a man 
an oath ? " , 

Mr. Morris. Giving a man an oath is simply binding him to secrecy 
and to loyalty and all of the things that the oath binds a man. 



3498 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

It simply does not give him any of the ritualism, and he does not 
have the benefit of the Klan's ritualism teachings, and it is to his 
best interests that he just receive the oath. He needs to receive the 
Kloranic instruction as well. They are just as important, if not more 
important, than his obligation, because it teaches certain things and 
lays the groundwork for Kloranic advancement and actually it should 
be carried out that way. 

Mr, Manuel. Now, did you at any time, Mr. Morris, in light of your 
response to that question, administer an oath to Mr. Wagner or any 
segment of ritualistic work at any time ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I ^vouldn't under any circumstances, divulge 
any part of Klankraft to him because, as I say, I don't think he is 
mentally capable of absorbing it. He is too much of a mad dog in his 
thinking. I don't know anything about his character, but he is too 
radical. I don't think he would understand a bit. I don't think he 
would absorb any of the philosophy of the Klan. 

I think he thinks it is a rabid, anti-Negro organization, and I think 
his conception of it would be he would not be a good one unless he 
went out and killed a "nigger" every morning before breakfast. 

I am not interested in that type of thinking. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you give the oath to any individual on July 18, 
1965, at Akron, Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know wdiat date. 

Mr. Manuel. On that approximate date, do you recall whether you 
administered oaths to certain individuals in Akron, Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I don't recall. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr. Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know him to be a member of the Knights of 
the KuKlux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; he is not a member of the Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know him to be a member of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I can't actually say that. 

Mr. Pool. In wdiat manner is he actually associated with the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know to my knowledge that he is. I have never 
been in any kind of meeting wnth him. 

Mr. Manuel. Wasn't it Mr. Gilliam who read you the contents of 
that letter written by Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. What contacts did you have with Mr. Gilliam prior 
to the reading of that letter ? 

Mr. Morris. I met Mr. Gilliam the first time we went to Columbus 
to speak at the National Association for the Advancement of White 
People, and I saw him on quite a few occasions. 

Mr. Manuel. How did you know Mr. Gilliam was in possession of 
that letter? 

Mr. Morris. He told me he had it. 

Mr. Manuel. Why would he tell you a thing like that ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3499 

Mr. Pool. What was the occasion for him telling you? 

Mr. Morris. He told me he had something that he thought I ought 
to know. No, he didn't tell me — he told me he could get something or 
he knew something I ought to know and he carried me, and I talked 
to Danny, and Danny Wagner told me verbally, and I told him to put 
it in writing. 

He gave it to Mr. Gilliam instead of giving it to me. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, as a matter of fact, did you not advise 
Mr. Wagner over the telephone from your home in Buchanan, Geor- 
gia, to put that material that he had in writing ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. You did ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. For what reason did you so advise Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. It was so fantastic I wanted him to put it in writing in 
his own style and language, and if I deemed that it was of enough 
importance, I intended to turn it over to the proper authorities be- 
cause in it there was a threat to the President of the United States. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you, as a matter of fact, ever advise proper au- 
thorities as to the contents of that letter ? 

Mr. Morris. I talked to the FBI about it. I talked to them, and 
they talked to me. 

Mr. Manuel. Can you give the committee a brief resume of what 
you stated to the FBI at that time ? 

Mr. Morris. I told them, in my opinion, that he had hallucinations 
of grandeur and was not responsible. I don't remember — we talked a 
good bit about that and other things. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you give the committee the date you gave this 
statement to the FBI ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was it after the contents of the letter were read to 
you by Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mr. Morris. It was after Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Wagner had been 
arrested. It was sometime after that. 

Mr. Pool. Did you go to the FBI, or did they come to you ? 

Mr. Morris. They called me at Buchanan and told me that they had 
this information and wanted to come out and talk with me. My wife 
was somewhat nervous at times, and I was going to Atlanta anyhow, 
I believe the next day, and I told them I would come to Atlanta and 
we would discuss it, and we did. 

Mr. Manuel. As a matter of fact, you never volunteered the in- 
formation to any law enforcement authority? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. If they had not have contacted you, would you have con- 
tacted the FBI ? 

Mr. Morris. I didn't know whether the letter was actually still in 
existence or not. 

Mr. Pool. Did you think it was so fantastic there wasn't any reason 
to contact the FBI ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; I certainly did. 

Mr. Pool. Are you a student of history? I am talking about the as- 
sassination of other Presidents in the United States. Are you familiar 



3500 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

with the circumstances surrounding the assassination of Abraham 
Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley ? 

Mr. Morris. I have read some of it ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Do you think they were fantastic ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, as a Klan leader and as an official, after 
you heard the contents of the letter written by Daniel Wagner, did 
you initiate any typo of an investigation to determine whether the 
contents of that letter were accurate or not? 

Mr, Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you speak to Mr. Wagner? Did Mr. Wagner 
ever tell you the contents of that letter wore true and correct as he 
did before this committee ? 

Mr. Morris. He told me at the time it was. He told me at the 
time, but I never discussed it with him any more at any time after 
that. 

Mr. Manuel. He told you it was true, and you did nothing to deter- 
mine whether it was or not ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you talk to Mrs. Witte after Mr. Wagner said 
the contents were true ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she deny that the contents of that letter were 
correct ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; she certainly did. 

Mr. Manuel. And it is your testimony, as I understand it, in light 
of no other investigative action on your part that you took Mrs. 
Witte's word over Mr. Wagner's in this regard; is that correct? 

Mr. Morris. That is absolutely correct. 

Mr. Manuel. Was there anyone else present when you spoke with 
Mrs. Witte regarding the contents of this letter? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was there anyone present when you spoke of the 
contents with Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Morris. Other than Mr. Stephens and Mr. Gilliam, no one else. 

Mr. Pool. What did Mrs. Witte tell you when you asked her about 
the letter? 

Mr. Morris. She said it was fantastic and, of course, was utterly 
ridiculous. 

Mr. Pool. Did she try to explain any of the contents of the letter ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, as the result of a Klan rally which was 
held on Parkie Scott's farm in Oregonia, Ohio, May 28 and 29, Mr. 
Wagner, who at times during that rally was dressed in Klan robe and 
was armed at least with a rifle, was present, according to press reports. 

Can you enlighten the committee as to how Mr. Wagner could be at 
a Klan rally dressed in a Klan robe and carrying a rifle without being 
a member of that organization ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; I certainly can. It was my knowledge — I 
didn't know that he was going to he there, and the first morning I 
got there he was there with a rifle and it was my understanding — Mr. 
Scott was at work — and it was my understanding that Mr. Scott who 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3501 

owned the farm had hired him. The Klan certainly did not. Some- 
body had tried to tear the Khin sign down the night before, and Mr. 
Wagner told me that jMr. Scott had given him instructions not to let 
anybody in on the farm. 

I spent the day, almost all day, taking his rifle away from him. 
Every time I would turn around, some of the news media would have 
him again with his rifle, taking pictures of it; and that afternoon — 
there is a hme coming up in to the house, I guess you would call it a 
lane, a narrow road, anyway — and the first thing I knew Danny was 
out at the end of the lane with a Klan robe on talking to the news- 
papers. 

1 sent someone out there after him and got him back there and made 
him take the robe off. When Mr. Scott come in from work, I told him 
that w^e had plenty of law enforcement officers there to take care of 
any situation that might arise and, if it was going to be the policy to 
have hell-raisers there with guns that I had to disarm every 15 minutes 
and every time my back was turned he would have another one, or 
have the gun again, that I would call the rally off then and there and 
pack my bag and go back to Birmingham. 

He agreed, and the law officers had assured me that they were there 
to protect us and protect everybody else, and that is the way that 
it has always been conducted. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, are you absolutely certain Mr. Wagner 
w^as hired by Mr. Scott as you previously stated? 

Mr. Morris. I am not absolutely certain of it. I believe Mrs. Witte 
told me that he had him hired. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner testified that he was at that rally at the 
invitation of Mrs. Witte. 

Mr. Morris. Well, she can answer that question better than I can. 
I don't know whether Mr. Scott hired him or Mrs. Witte. I really 
don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you l<:now where he got the Klan robe? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know where he got the rifle ? 

Mr. Morris. It w^as his rifle, as I understood it. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner testified that he obtained this rifle at the 
urging of Mrs. Witte from a William Davis of Dayton, Ohio. 

Do you know this testimony to be correct ? 

Mr. Morris. I have no knowledge of where he got the rifle, or any- 
thing about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr. William Davis of Dayton, Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. Xo, sir; I don't know if I do or not. I may have met 
him, but I don't know. I don't know any gun dealers. I would have 
no reasons to know them. I don't know if I know the man or not, 
really. 

Mr. Pool. I believe you said you discussed the contents of this letter 
wnth Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Stephens. 

Mr. Morris. It was read in their presence. We didn't have a long- 
discussion about it. There w\as some animosity between Mr. Stephens 
and Mrs. Witte, and of course Mr. Stephens tried to make it appear 
in a pretty serious light. 



3502 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. He didn't think the letter was fantastic; did he? 

Mr. Morris. He didn't comment on it too much. I don't remember 
his exact reaction. 

Mr. Pool. What was Mr. Gilliam's attitude? 

Mr. Morris. I don't think he had very much to say about it. 

Mr. Pool. Didn't he think it was a pretty serious matter ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't recall him expressing himself that way. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, do you have knowledge that Mr. Gilliam 
and Mr. Wagner made a trip to the State of Georgia and returned to 
Ohio in possession of a quantity of dynamite? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge whatsoever of dynamite 
being transported from the State of Georgia to the State of Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, concerning the rally held on Parkie 
Scott's farm, was there a rally of the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan or the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. It was advertised as the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 
Mr. Venable was there, and it was a joint effort. 

Mr. Manuel. A joint effort. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. On the part of the Knights and the National 
Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, would you explain to the committee how 
it is possible, in view of your statements regarding both the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
how it is possible for both organizations to sponsor a rally? 

Mr. Morris. It is just as possible for two Klan organizations to 
sponsor a rally as it would be for two churches to join hands in a 
revival, which is often done. I see nothing unusual about that. 

Mr. Pool. Did you take up any collection ? 

Mr. Morris. I think at one of the meetings there was a collection 
taken up to help defray some expenses for Mr. Scott. That is the 
only collection I have any knowledge of. 

Mr. Pool. Did both organizations have collection-takers? 

Mr. Morris. Not that I know of ; no, sir. 

Mr. Pool. What happened to the money ? 

Mr. Morris. It was given to Mr. Scott. 

Mr. Manuel. This is the rally at his farm in May ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Scott, I believe, testified that the only money he 
received as the result of that rally was $1 for the rental of his farm. 

Is his testimony correct in that regard? 

Mr. Morris. He received a dollar and then I think, as I previously 
stated, I believe there was a collection taken up. 

Mr. Pool. You say you "believe" it. Do you know it? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; I know it. 

Mr. Pool. You are under oath here and you are testifying and 
you know it. 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; I know it. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3503 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, whose applications were passed out at 
the Memorial Day rally? 

Mr. Morris. As I recall it, there were some applications signed in 
the National Knights, some with the Knights, and some on the Dixie 
Klan's application blanks. 

Mr. Manuel. Was the Dixie Klan also participating in the rally? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. How could their applications be passed out? 

Mr. Morris. I think Mrs. Witte had taken some of the applications. 
I think she wrote up some on her forms. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mrs. Witte to be a member or organizer 
for the Dixie Knights of the Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I am not trying to confuse you. I don't think the ap- 
plication was taken for the Dixie Klans. It was taken for the 
Knights of the Klan on Dixie application blanks. 

Mr. Manuel. How did you determine who got which application ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't understand your question. 

Mr. Manuel. You said applications were passed out 

Mr. Morris. I said — what I meant to convey, I think at that time 
there were applications signed that had the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. Some of them had the National Knights and some were signed 
on the Dixie Klan, but they all came into the same place. There 
weren't actually three different organizations bidding for member- 
ship there. 

Does that answer your question? 

Mr. Pool. In other words, you did not have enough blanks and 
you used the Dixie Klan blanks, but it was intended for the other 
klan? 

Mr. Morris. That is exactly right. 

Mr. Manuel. Which Klan ultimately received the members who 
signed the applications? 

Mr. Morris. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Of which you are the Emperor ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you an application for citizen- 
ship in the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, on which 
is also written the "Federated Ku Klux Klans, Inc.," and that part 
is inked out. I would like for you to examine this document and I 
would like for you to tell the committee whether this is a copy of the 
applications which were made available at the Ohio rally in May? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; this is some of them. This is some of them ; 
yes, sir. 

(Document marked "William Morris Exhibit No. 2" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Manuel. How many applications in total were passed out at 
that rally ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have an estimate, over a hundred, over 500, 
whatever it is ? 

Mr. Morris. I would say approximately 300. 

Mr. Manuel. Approximately 300. 

Mr. Morris. Were signed. 



3504 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. What happened to the applications after they were 
signed ? 

Mr. Morris. Some of them had paid and some hadn't paid, and those 
that were paid were processed, investigated, and inducted into the 
Klan at a later date. 

Mr. Manuel. How much money was realized from those who paid 
at the time they signed their application ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't recall exactly. There was something over a 
hundred that paid — approximately 150, 1 suppose. 

Mr. Manuel. How much money did each person pay — actually pay 
in? 

Mr. Morris. $15. 

Mr. Manuel. So that if there were 100 applications turned in at 
$15 apiece, it would be $1,500. 

Mr. Morris. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. What happened to that money ? 

Mr, Morris. After the expense of printing and incidental expenses 
that went to holding the rally, that money w^as put in trust for the 
Klan in Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. Put in trust, and wdiere w^as it kept ? 

Mr. Morris. I left all of the records, the membership, the applica- 
tions, and those that had paid and those that had not paid in alpha- 
betical order. I left them with Mr. Stephens and so far as I know, he 
still has them. 

Mr. Pool. How much profit did you make on that rally? 

Mr. Morris. I think I left for the Klan in Ohio, I think I left 
around — in application funds, around $1,000. 

Mr. Pool. So it cost you about $500 to put on the rally ? 

Mr. Morris. Something in that neighborhood. 

Mr. Manuel. Who has access to that money ? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Stephens. 

Mr. Manuel. Is he the only one ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was there an actual trust agreement signed ? 

Mr. Morris. He signed a receipt for it, a receipt for the applica- 
tions, those that had paid and those that hadn't. Of course, he was 
to hold that in trust until the Klans were formed and he would receive 
a part of it and a part of it would go into the treasury of the local 
Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Who has the receipt that Mr. Stephens signed? 

Mr. Morris. I do. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any receipts of any other money that was 
deposited in the same fashion ? 

Mr. Morris. That is all I have anything to do with. 

Mr. Pool. Are you going to present that to the committee as part 
of the documents and records that were called for in the subpena ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, what happened to the applications after 
you received them after that rally ? In other words, if a person filled 
m an application such as this, what would happen to it? 

Mr. Morris. To the application ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3505 

Mr. Morris. That would become the permanent property of the 
Klan and iiltmiately that would go to the local Klan that was estab- 
lished, as part of the member's permanent record. 

Mr. Manuel. My question to you is : Did the persons wdio signed 
these applications ultimately become members of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. If the investigation proved them worthy, if their char- 
acter was good, their morals were good, and their vocation was hon- 
orable and they passed the constitutional requirements for member- 
ship, they were inducted ; if not, their money was returned to them. 

Mr. Manuel. "Wliat investigation did you conduct to assure that 
the character, and so forth, as you have described it, of these appli- 
cants was of the level acceptable to the Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. If you will turn over to the back there you will see 
where it has the references on the back there. It has the man's occu- 
pation, his age, and all of the pertinent information that is necessary. 
And on the basis of that, you make discrete inquiries and learn some- 
thing about the man's background. 

Mr. Manuel. What discrete inquiries did you make concerning all 
of these applicants in the State of Ohio as the result of just that one 
rally ? There were two others in whicli you participated. 

Mr. Morris. Some of them I did, and some of them other people 
did for me. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a board of investigators for the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan in Ohio ? 

Mr. Morris. When a Klan is established, there will be a board of 
investigators. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you specifically have one in this instance? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, were these applications 
investigated ? 

Mr. Morris. I think not as thoroughly, certainly, as they would be 
after a Klan is established. 

Mr. Pool. How are you going to establish a Klan ? Do you mean 
the charter members will not be investigated ? 

Mr. Morris. Certainly they will be investigated, but after you get 
a Klan established they have much better machinery to do that. 

Mr. Pool. The original members are not going to be investigated. 
You are just going to take the date on the back of the original appli- 
cation ? 

Mr. Morris. How is that, sir ? 

Mr. Pool. With the original members, you have no investigators to 
investigate the original incorporators or charter members of the unit. 

Mr. Morris. They are investigated, but not as thoroughly. 

Mr. Pool. Who investigates them ? 

Mr. Morris. Some people that are already members of the Klan. 
We wouldn't take an outside source of information. 

Mr. AIanuel. Specifically in this case, in the case of the May rally 
at Parkie Scott's farm, who investigated the applications that were 
received by the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I investigated some of them, Mrs. Witte investigated 
some of them 

Mr. Pool. What did your investigation consist of? What did 
you do? 



3506 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Morris. We would verify their employment and find out what 
some of the references thought of them as to their character 

Mr. Pool. How did you do this ? 

Mr. Morris. By telephone or personal contact. 

Mr. Pool. Whom did you call? 

Mr. Morris. I called the references. 

Mr, Pool. You called the references listed there ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; and if there was any derogatory information 
turned up, we would look further. 

Mr. Pool. Did you try to investigate them outside of the references 
they listed? Nobody would list a reference that would give them a 
bad name, I don't suppose. 

Mr. Morris. Sometimes they do. 

Mr. Pool. I guess it is possible. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, how long did it take for this investigation 
to be made on an individual ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe that it was 6 weeks or something like about 6 
weeks. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you a copy of a letter 

Mr. Morris. It might have been a month. 

Mr. Manuel. Pardon ? 

Mr. Morris. It might have been a month or 6 weeks. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you a copy of a letter dated 
June 11, 1965, P.O. Box 23036, Cincinnati Ohio, 45223, the letter states 
as follows : 

Dear Sir: 

Having made application for citizenship with us sometime ago, we are pleased 
to inform you that you have been found worthy for membership. 

please appear at the same location our rally was held in the Lebanon area. 
In case you did not attend, this is the farm of Parkie Scott. The dead end of 
Lincoln Rd. Which runs ofC Wilmington. 

If all fees have not been paid, please be there early. The initiation is sched- 
uled for twelve-o-clock, and all papers must be in order by that time. No one 
will be admitted to the grounds after twelve. 

No visitors will be weclone [sic] except Klanspeople. We caution you to 
destroy this notice and to tell no one, even your family where you will be at this 
time. 

Bring the empty envelope from this letter to admit you to the farm. The date 
is June 27th, and the time is TWELVE NOON. 

Looking forward to seeing you there, 

Sincerely Yours, 
/s/ Wm. Hugh Morris 
Wm. Hugh Morkis. 

I hand you a copy of this letter, Mr. Morris, and ask you to advise 
the committee if you did send out letters like this and, further, to 
identify the persons who received such letters ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir; this was sent out by my authorization. 

(Document marked "William Morris No. 3" appears on p. 3507.) 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, who maintains Post Office Box 
23036 in Cincinnati ? 

Mr. Morris. I paid the rent on it while I was there. I don't know 
if it is still being maintained there or not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you keep a list of those who were initiated as 
the result of receiving this letter ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3507 

William Morris Exhibit No. 3 

P. O. BOX 23036 
CINCINNATI, OHIO 45223 



J-ane 11, I965 



Dear Sir: 

Raving made application for citizenship vdth us some time ago, 
we are pleased to inform you that you have been found worthy 
for membership. 

please appear at the same location our rally was held in the 
Lebanon area. In case you did not attend, this is the farm of 
Parkie Scott, The dead end of Lincoln Rd, YJhich runs off 
Vfi.lmington. 

If all fees have not been paid, please be there early. The 
initation is scheduled for twelve - o - clock, and all papers 
must be in order by that time. No one will be admitted to the 
grounds after twelve. 

No visitors will be welcone except Klanspeople. We caution you 
to destroy this notice and to tell no one, even your family 
where you will be at this time. 

Bring the empty envelope from this letter to admit you to the 
farm. The date is June27th, and the time KffiLVE NOON* 

Looking forv^ard to seeing you there. 

Sincerely Yours, 

Vilm. Hugh Morris 

Mr. Manuel. Wliat happened to that, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. I turned it over to Mr. Stephens. 

Mr. Manuel. The Klan had two other rallies. What happened to 
the records and results of those two rallies, namely, the one at Lodi 
and the other, I believe, sometime in August in 

Mr. Morris. One in Brunswick and one in Lodi. Mr. Scott kept 
those records. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he also keep the proceeds of any moneys that 
were received by the Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I received no money from him. He reported to Mr. 
Venable, and Mr. Venable has those records. I don't have them. 



3508 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Out of the three rallies that were held in Ohio, Mr. 
Morris, did you realize any financial gain as the result of them ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you receive any money whatsoever? 

Mr. Morris. Very little. You can look 'at my bank account and 
tell that. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee approximately how 
much you received ? 

Mr. Morris. A part of my expenses, possiblv $150 at one time, 
possibly $250. 

Mr. Manuel. All together ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Venable receive any money from those 
rallies ? 

Mr. Morris. Xot to my knowledge ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Mr. Morris, in traveling to Ohio to initiate members 
into the Klan, did a special degree team accompany you from the 
State of Georgia ? 

Mr. Morris. They didn't accompany me. I was already here. 

Mr. Manitel. Did you have knowledge that a degree team did come 
from Georgia to help initiate members into the Ohio Eealm? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please identify members of the degree 
team who initiated people into the Ohio Realm ? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Venable brought that degree team, and I didn't 
know the gentleman, so I suppose he knows who they are. 

Mr. Pool. You are saying, under oath, you did not know any of 
them on that degree team ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I didn't meet any of them. 

Mr. Pool. I am asking you if you knew any of them. 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I didn't know them. 

Mr. Pool. You didn't know them by name. 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know their identity now ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe two or three of them. 

Mr. Pool. Let us have the names. 

Mr. Morris. Well, let's see. I believe that there was a Mr. McGriff. 

Mr. Pool. Who? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. McGriff. 

Mr. Pool. What is his first name ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 

Mr. Pool. Where did he live? 

Mr. Morris. Somewhere in Georgia. 

Mr. Pool. l^Hio is another one ? 

Mr. Morris. I can't think of his name. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Earl Holcombe a member of that degree 
team? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And Mr. Ray McGriff ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know about Mr. McGriff. 

Mr. Manuel. Were there any other members of the degree team? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3509 

Mr. Morris. Those are the only two I have seen since that time to 
know who they were. 

Mr. Pool. They were part of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, Incorporated ? 

Mr. Morris. They came up with Mr. Venable ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. You said all of the people who submitted applica- 
tions were initiated into the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and then 
you said Mr. Venable, who is the Imperial Wizard of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, brought his own degree team up to 
initiate members. 

Now, would you please explain to the committee, in light of those 
two facts that you have testified to, how this is possible ? 

Mr. Morris. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan used the same basic ritual in K-UNO 
which Colonel Simmons produced in 1916, so the ritualism is the same 
and the oath is the same. 

The only thing that you would do would be, in giving a person the 
oath, they would swear their allegiance and take their vows in the name 
of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan instead of the National Knights. 
There is nothing confusing about that. 

Mr. Manuel. Then Mr. Venable used persons who were National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan to initiate members into the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan ; is that right ? 

Mr. Morris. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know at that time that Mr. Holcombe and 
Mr. McGriff were members of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. I knew that Mr. Venable wouldn't bring up 
there anybody who was not a member. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, to serve on the degree team, you 
would have to be a member of the National Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. You would have to be a member of the same Klan ; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Other than being a member of the degree team, to 
your knowledge, did Mv. McGriff or Mr. Holcombe hold any other 
title in the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr, Morris. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess until 4 o'clock this 
afternoon. The witness will return. You are not excused. 

(Members present at time of recess: Representatives Pool and 
Clawson.) 

(Whereupon, at 11 :45 a.m., Monday, February 14, 1966, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene at 4 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— MONDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1966 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 4 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chair- 
man of the subcommittee, presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Claw- 
son.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Manuel. Will Mr. William Hugh Morris resume the stand 
please ? 

59-222 O— 67-^pt. 5 3 



3510 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM HUGH MORRIS— Resumed 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, would you please tell the committee 
when the organization, Kniohts of tlie Ku Klux Klan, of which you 
are the Emperor, was established ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime in the early spring, I believe, of 1965. 

Mr. Manuel. Would that have been, sir, in the month of April 
1965 ? 

Mr. Morris. It could have been. 

Mr. Manuel. Where was the organization established, at what 
place? 

Mr. Morris. Our first meeting w^as at Tucker, Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee who was present at 
the organizing meeting of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No. 

Mr. Manuel. You say "no." What is the basis for your answer 
of "no"? 

Mr. Morris. There was never any acts of lawlessness or violence 
or plans discussed. Nobody's civil rights. 

Mr. Pool. He asked you a question and he asked you why you do 
not answer. 

Do you want to plead one of your amendments ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Plead it. 

Mr. Morris. The 1st, 5th, and 14th. 

Mr. Pool. Did you say the fifth ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes; 1st, 5th, and 14th. 

Mr. Pool. On the self-incrimination part of the fifth? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Up until April of 1965 when the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan was organized, were you a member of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime prior to that; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. When exactly did you leave membership of the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. When the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was formed 
and I was elected Emperor. 

Mr. Manuel. That would have been April of 1965. 

Mr. Morris. Somewhere around there; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee why you were no 
longer a member of the National Knights ? Why did you leave the 
organization ? 

Mr. Morris. No particular reason. What time and thoughts I had, 
I felt I could better devote to the other one. 

Mr. Manuel. Up until April of 1965, was the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan also considered a national association of Klan 
groups ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; not to my knowledge ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. In April of 1965, was there a national association of 
Klan groups? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Under what name did it go, specifically ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3511 

Mr. Morris. I believe — I am not certain — but I believe it was the 
National Association of Ku Klux Klans.^ I am not sure. I am not 
positive. 

Mr. Manuel. Was the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
under the leadership of Mr, James Venable, a member of that asso- 
ciation ? 

Mr. Morris. I think so ; yes, sir. I would say so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you name the other Klan groups which com- 
prise membership in the association ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I can't. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain why you can't. 

Mr. Morris. I don't know for certain what groups belong to it and 
what groups didn't actually belong to it. I attended some of the meet- 
ings and some of the informal meetings, but at different times, and 
there were different groups represented. Mr. Venable would be in a 
much better position to answer that than I would, because he is the 
chairman of that particular group. 

Mr. Manuel. With whom did you attend the meetings of this asso- 
ciation ? 

Mr. Morris. At the times I was there, there was pretty good repre- 
sentation of different groups there. So far as the individuals are con- 
cerned, I couldn't, with any degree of accuracy, name them. 

Mr. Pool. Name some of them then. 

Mr. Morris. Well, I attended some meetings where Mr. Maddox 
was in attendance. 

Mr. Pool. Which Mr. Maddox is that ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe he lives down around Savannah, and Mr. 
Shearouse. 

Mr. Manuel. Wliat organizations did Mr. Shearouse and Mr. Mad- 
dox represent ? 

Mr. Morris. I think they called themselves members of the Georgia 
Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. What other organizations were represented? 

Mr. Morris. I believe at one meeting I was attending, I believe 
there was a group from Florida represented. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that the United Florida Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Name the leader of that group. 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Kersey. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that Jason Kersey ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know his initials. 

Mr. Pool. Wliat other groups did you see there ? Name some more. 

Mr. Manuel. Was the Association of South Carolina Klans repre- 
sented ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't recall, possibly ones believe 

Mr. Pool. Who were they led by ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe Mr. Hodges was. 

Mr. Manuel. What is his full name? Is his first name Kobert 
Hodges ? 

Mr. Morris. I think so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Aubrey Bolen and Mr. Cecil Mims also 
represent the Association of South Carolina Klans ? 



1 National Association, Knights of the Ku Klux Klans. See chart p. 1544. 



3512 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Morris. I don't know those. 

Mr. Manuel. Was the Dixie Klan from Chattanooga, Tennessee, 
represented in the association ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Who was their representative, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Brown. There were two of them. I don't know 
their initials or names. 

Mr. Manuel. Does the name Jack Brown ring a bell ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; I believe that is right. 

Mr. Manuel. Was the U.S. Klans, Knight of the Kii Kliix Klan, 
represented in the association ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't recall attending any meeting at the U.S. Klans. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, was the U.S. Klans a member 
of the association of Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did the Original Knights of Louisiana have represen- 
tatives on the association ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did the Improved Order of U.S. Klans have repre- 
sentatives on the association ? 

Mr. Morris. I have seen Mr. George at some of the meetings. I 
don't know whether he came as an official representative or not. 

Mr. Manuel. What is Mr. George's full name, Mr. Morris ? Is his 
name Earl George ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mr. George the Imperial Wizard of an organiza- 
tion known as the Improved Order of U.S. Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; he is. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, you testified this morning that currently 
and as of April 1965, there is a 12-member Imperial Kloncilium of the 
organization of which you are the Emperor, namely, the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan. 

Is this Kloncilium made up of members of that association which 
you have just described ? 

Mr. Morris. Not necessarily ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you describe exactly the makeup of it, ex- 
actly ? 

Mr. Morris. It is composed of men from several States. 

Mr. Manuel. Which States, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. 

Mr. Manuel. You say it is made up of men from several States; 
namely, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina. Are the members of 
the Imperial Kloncilium of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan also 
representatives of other Klan groups in those States? 

Mr. Morris. Not necessarily ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please state who is and who is not? 

Mr. Morris. Who is a representative and who is not ? 

Mr. Manuel. Who is a member of the Imperial Kloncilium who 
is not a member of a Klan organization within the States you have de- 
scribed — South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I can't 

Mr. Pool. I don't know whether he understands the question. Do 
you understand the question ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3513 

Mr. Morris. I am not sure I do. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you currently have a member on the Imperial 
Kloncilium of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who is also a member 
of the Association of South Carolina Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. I think so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Maxuel. Who is that individual ? 

Mr. Morris. I can't tell you. 

Mr. Manuel. On what basis do you refuse to answer? 

Mr. Morris. On the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a member on the Imperial Kloncilium 
of the United Ku Klux Klan who is also a member of the United 
Florida Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know what o:roup they go by. There are two 
or three groups in Florida. I don't know what the official name 
of this individual group is. 

Mr. Manuel. Is this individual a member of a Klan in Florida? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Who is that individual ? 

Mr. Morris. I cannot tell you. 

Mr. Manuel. On what basis ? 

Mr. Morris. On the basis of the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments. 

Mr. Pool. You are not objecting on the grounds of your Klan oath? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; on my honor and on my oath I have sworn 
on the Christian Bible that I would not reveal it. 

Mr. Pool. And you are invoking the fifth amendment because that 
would not do you any good ? 

Mr. Morris. You said that ; I didn't. 

Mr. Pool. Well, I am asking you. 

Mr. Morris. I am invoking the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments 
to the Constitution. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a member on the Imperial Kloncilium of 
the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who is also a member of the Geor- 
gia Association of Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a member on the Imperial Kloncilium 
who is a member of the U.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a member on the Imperial Kloncilium 
who is a member of the Improved Order of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have a member who is also a member of the 
United Klans of America who is also on the Imperial Kloncilium ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, at that point I would like to ask you 
has the association of Klans, as you describe it, ever had a member 
from the United Klans of America? 

Mr. Morris. I do not recall them, sir, having one. 

Mr. Pool. Well, did they, or didn't they ? 

Mr. Morris. I Avouldn't be in a position to know. 

Mr. Pool. Then say you don't know. 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 



3514 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, have the United Klans of Amer- 
ica been invited to participate in the activities of the National Knights 
oftheKuKluxKlan? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 

Mr, Pool. You are under oath, so when you make a statement like 
that you know Avhat you are sayng ? 

Mr, Morris. I know, but I don't have no way of knowing, 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee why it is that the United 
Klans of America does not have a representative on the National Asso- 
ciation of Ku Klux Klans ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know that answer either. 

Mr, Manuel. Have you ever discussed membership in the associa- 
tion by the United Klans of America with Mr. James R. Venable ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't remember having done so. 

Mr. Pool. Did you, or didn't you ? 

Mr, Morris. Sir ? 

Mr. Pool. Did you, or did you not ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't remember. It is possible that I have, but I 
don't remember it at this time. I am trying to be honest. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, is it a fact that the Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, of which you are the Emperor, is the organization which 
now represents what was formly the National Association of Ku Klux 
Klans? 

Mr, Morris. No, sir ; not in any sense. 

Mr. Manuel. Is the National Association of Ku Klux Klans still 
in existence ? 

Mr, Morris. So far as I know. I haven't heard of it being dis- 
banded. 

Mr, Manuel, Is the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, of which you 
are the Emperor, a member of that association? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; it is not, 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris would you please restate the date at 
which you ceased membership in the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr, Morris. I don't remember the date. It was sometime last year, 
about the time that we formed the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you a member of the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan in July of 1965? 

Mr. Morris, I don't know. It was sometime last year that I 
resigned. 

Mr. Manuel. You previously stated that, at a meeting held in 
April of 1965 or thereabouts, the organization, the Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, was formed and you left the National — membership of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ; is that right ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime after the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
was formed, the specific date I do not remember. 

Mr. Manuel. After the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was formed, 
did you continue to serve as an officer of the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I only served as an officer of the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan at two executive meetings. The dates of those 
meetings I do not remember. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3515 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, I would like to show you a copy of an 
application for the certification of authority of a foreio;n corporation, 
namely, the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., organized 
and existing under the laws of the State of Georgia to do business in 
the State of North Carolina. 

This document is dated July 27, 1965, and on the second page thereof 
it lists the following individuals : James R. Venable, president, chair- 
man (Imperial Wizard) ; William Hugh Morris, vice president. Box 
415, Buchanan, Georgia; H. G. Hill, Sr., 2d vice president (kludd), 
and Mrs. Sara Langley, secretary-treasurer. 

I show you this document, Mr. Morris, and ask you to advise the 
committee as to whether you are the William Hugh Morris so named 
in that document? 

Mr. Morris. This is my name and this is my address, but I have 
no knowledge of this. 

(Document marked "William Morris Exhibit No. 4" and retained 
in committee files.) 

Mr. Pool. I did not get your answer. 

Mr. Morris. That is my name and that is my address, but I have 
no knowledge of that document. 

Mr. Manuel. Was this document filed with the secretary of state 
of the State of North Carolina without your knowledge and consent? 

Mr. Morris. It was without my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. At the date indicated, July 27, 1965, were you the 
vice president of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't remember whether it was at that time or some 
time later that I officially resigned. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you officially resign ? 

Mr. Morris. Verbally, I officially resigned. 

Mr. Manuel. To whom did you offer your resignation ? 

Mr. Morris. To Mr. Venable. 

Mr. Pool. Was this document filed with the State of North Caro- 
lina without your consent? 

Mr. Morris. I had no knowledge of it. I couldn't approve it or 
disapprove it, sir. 

Mr. Pool. This document was filed with the State of North Caro- 
lina. Now that being the case, did you give your consent for this 
being filed in the State of North Carolina ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I did not give my consent. 

Mr. Pool. You did not give your consent. Is that your answer ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir ; that is my answer. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, under the laws, whatever they are, of the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, of which you are the Emperor, does 
Mr. James R. Venable have the authority to appoint imperial officers? 

Mr. Morris. Not in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. He does 
in the National Knights. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you, Mr. Morris, the original 
of a document on the letterhead of the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, Inc., dated 6 April 1965, signed James R. Venable, Im- 
perial Wizard, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

The document is embossed with a gold seal which says "National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" and the letter reads as follows : 



3516 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



To Whom it May Concern : 

This is to certify that Mr. Walter N. Huff is an Imperial Officer in the Knights 
of the Ku Khix Klan for the State of Ohio and as such has a right to solicit mem- 
bership, create Klavern, do ritualistic work and any and all other things and 
matters concerning the Klan for the State of Ohio. 

Given under my hand and official seal this 6th day of April, 1965. 

Signed by James R. Venable. 

Mr. Morris, would you explain to the committee after you have 
read that document how Mr. Venable could appoint an imperial of- 
ficer in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. I have no explanation. 

(Document marked "William Morris Exhibit No. 5" follows:) 

William Morris Exhibit No. 5 




'The Most Sublime Lineage in AH History 

Commemorating and Perpetuating as it Does 

the Most Dauntless Organization Known to Man" 

NATIONAL KNIGHTS OF 

THE KU KLUX KLAN, INC. 

Imperial Office 
Invisible Empire 




Tucker, Georgia 



To Whom it May Concern: 

ThlB la to certify that Mr. Walter H. Huff la an Imperial 
Officer in the Knlghta of the Ku Klux Klan for the State 
of Ohio and aa auch haa a right to aollclt neraberablp, 
create Klavern, do rltuallatlc work end any and all other 
thlnga and mattera concerning the Klan for the State of 
Ohio. 

GlTen under my hand and off Iclal/ aeal thla 6th day of April, 1965. 

; 




lies H. vena Die " 

[m|>erlal Wizard 
'Knlghta of the Ku Klux Klan 



Mr. Manuel. Does Mr. Venable have the authority to sigri "Im- 
perial Wizard, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan"? Does he, in fact, 
have that title within your organization ? 

Mr. Morris. We have no Imperial Wizard. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, is Mr. Walter N. Huff 
of the State of Ohio an imperial officer in your organization, the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3517 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; he is not. 

Mr. Pool. "Was this letter mailed? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Did Mr. Venable at any time prior to the 6th day of April 1965 
discuss with you the appointment of Walter N. Huff as an imperial 
officer in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. Xot in tlie Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. I talked 
to him sometime about the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
but not the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, is Mr. Walter Huff an 
officer of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, earlier this morning we got in a little 
bit as to the results of the Klan rallies which were held in the State 
of Ohio. I asked you at that time, to your best knowledge, how 
many members of the Ku Klux Klan were recruited from the State 
of Ohio as the result of the rally held at Parkie Scott's farm on 
May 28 and 29, 1965. 

I would like to ask you that question again and have your answer 
for the record, sir. 

Mr. Morris. I don't know exactly. I would say there was some- 
thing over 100 that paid, and the total that signed applications was 
between 250 and 300, I believe, but they were not inducted and did 
not pay their entrance fee. 

Mr. Manuel. As far as that particular rally was concerned, to 
your certain knowledge, how much money was taken in by the 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. In the neighborhood of $1,500. I couldn't say just 
exactly. 

Mr. Manuel. The Klan on August 19, 20, and 21, either the Na- 
tional Knights or the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, or both, held a 
rally at Brunswick, Ohio. 

Would you please tell the committee, to your certain knowledge, 
how many persons were inducted or initiated into membership into 
the Klan as the result of that rally ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know. 

Mr. Manuel. Approximately how many ? 

Mr. Morris. I haven't any "idea. I didn't have access to any of 
those records. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you yourself initiate persons into the Klan as 
the result of that rally ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any idea of how much money was 
taken in by the Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Similarly, the Klan had a rally at Lodi near Cleve- 
land on September 18 and 19 of 1965. 

Could you tell the committee how many members were initiated 
into the Klan as the result of that rally? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I have no knowledge of that. 

Mr. Manuel. How nuich money was taken in by the Klan? 

Mr. Morris. The records were not available to me, and I do not 
know. 



3518 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Were application blanks distributed at the rallies 
at Brunswick and Lodi ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Mantlh:!.. Would you tell the committee wliat happened to 
those application blanks? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I don't know how many were signed and how- 
many were not, how many paid and how many didn't. I don't 
know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you receive into membership some individuals 
as the result of those two rallies, any number at all ? 

Mr. Morris. So far as I know, none of those members came into 
the Kniglits of tlie Ku Klux Klan. They possibly came into the 
National Knights. 

Mr. Manuel. So, as I understand your testimony, the only per- 
sons w^ho came into membership of the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan were as the result of Parkie Scott's rally, the rally held on 
Parkie Scott's fann in May of 196.5 ? 

Mr. Morris. That is all I have any records of. 

Mr. Manuel. Where in Ohio does the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan have units or Klaverns set up ? 

Mr. Morris. As I told you this morning, we have no charter plans 
in existence anywhere. 

Mr. Manuel. AVliat happened to the 100 or 150 people, whatever 
the case may be, wlio signed up and became members of the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan in Ohio ? 

Mr. Morris. I think Mr. Harris or Mr. Stephens would be in far 
better position to answer that question than I am. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, what is your answer to that 
question ? 

Mr. Morris. They may be meeting mider the National Kniglits of 
the Ku Klux Klan and they may be chartered under the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. I do not know. 

Mr. Manitel. But you said they were members of the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan. They were inducted into membership into 
the Knights? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Does the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan interchange membership, at 
least insofar as the State of Ohio is concerned ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; not so far as I know. 

Mr. Manuel. Do they in any case ? 

Mr. Morris. I have no direct knowledge of it. 

Mr. Manuel. Is a person initiated in the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan also a member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; but if he desires to transfer, he would be free 
to do so. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, does the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan have any organized Klaverns in the city of 
Cleveland? 

Mr. Morris. Not beinj? a member of that organization, I have no 
knowledge of where their Klans are located. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever discussed this aspect of Klan activity 
withMr. Venable? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3519 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Who are the present officers of the Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan in the State of Ohio ? 

Mr. Morris. We have one officer there now, as of today. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlio is that individual, Mr. Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Harris, of Cincinnati. Excuse me, and Mr. Lewis, 
of Akron. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mr. Parkie Scott an officer in your organization? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What position does Mr. Harris hold in the KJnights of 
the Ku Klux Klan for the Realm of Ohio ? 

Mr. Morris. He is a great titan. 

Mr. Manuel. When was Mr. Harris appointed to that position ? 

Mr. Morris. Either last September or October. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, do you have any knowledge that Mr. 
Harris specifically on September 26, 1965, met in Zanesville, Ohio, with 
representatives of the United Klans of America, including Eobert 
Shelton, for the purpose of transferring membership from your orga- 
nization to the United Klans of America ? 

Mr. Morris. I have no direct Imowledge of that. I had a rumor of 
it. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you, please, inform the committee what your 
knowledge is in that regard ? 

Mr. Morris. No more than a rumor. I don't have any direct knowl- 
edge that he did or didn't. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know that such a meeting was held ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. If such a meeting was held, Mr. Morris, and Mr. 
Harris was in attendance, would it have been necessary for him as the 
Grand Dragon or the great titan for the Realm of Ohio to have gotten 
your permission before meeting with an officer of another Klan group? 

Mr. Morris. It would not have been necessary for him to get my 
permission to do so ; no, sir. This is a free country, and he can engage 
in any activity he wants to. 

Mr. Manuel. Can a person hold simultaneous membership in the 
JNational Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the United Klans of 
America ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Why not? 

Mr. Morris. He couldn't swear unqualified allegiance to both. 

Mr. Manuel. As I understand your testimony, you said it was 
possible for a person to be a member of the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan and also to be a member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. Why is it a different situation- 



Mr. Morris. I think you are trying to twist- 

Mr. Manuel. Not at all ; I am trying to unravel the situation. 
Mr. Morris. I said that he could transfer if he wanted to from 
the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan to the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan. That would be — he could be — certainly if a member 
of our organization desired to affiliate with another organization, I 
would not be selfish enough to try to hold him in any group that I 
represented. 



3520 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

The proper procedure would be for liim to request that. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, do you have knowledge of an organiza- 
tion which is known as the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever heard the name "Black Shirts" men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir, I read it in the paper. 

Mr. Manuel. When was the first time you heard of that organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Morris. Actually way back in the twenties there used to be an 
order known as the Black Shirts here in this country. 

Mr. Manuel. Since April of 1964 have you discussed an organiza- 
tion known as the Black Shirts with Mr. James Venable ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have knowledge of the existence of a group 
operating in the State of Georgia called the Vigilantes ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. While you were a member of the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, was Mr. Earl Holcombe a member of the National 
Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you subseouently know him to be a member of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No. sir. I don't know what Klan affiliation he had. 

Mr. Manltel. This morning you testified that Mr. Holcombe has 
accompanied Mr. Venable to the State of Ohio as a member of his 
degree team. You did testify to that ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Morris. As a member of a degree team ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Of what Klan group did he act as a member of the 
decree team? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know what group he belongs to. I just do not 
know. 

Mr. Manuel. What about Mr. Ray McGriff. Did you know him to 
be a member of a degree team of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. I don't know if he is a member of the degree 
team of the National Ku Klux Klan or not. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been i^resent when Mr. McGriff and Mr. 
Holcombe have initiated members into the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan in the State of Ohio? 

Mr. Pool. What was your question, Mr. Manuel ? 

Mr. Manuel. The reporter can read it back. 

(The question was read bv the reporter.) 

Mr. Pool. I think he testified to that this morning. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Mr. Morris, were you present at a meetin<^ of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Columbus, Ohio, on or 
about the 10th day of October 1964, and tliat meeting was held at the 
Airway Lodge at 4800 East 17th Street, in Columbus, from the hours 
of approximately 3:80 p.m. to 7 p.m.? 

Mr. Morris. I attended a meeting at this airport inn, but as to the 
date I am not 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3521 

Mr. Manuel. Was it in the fall of 1964? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir, I think so. It was getting cool weather, 

Mr. Manuel. What was the purpose of that particular meeting in 
Columbus, Ohio, Mr. Morris? 

Mr. Morris. There had been quite a bit of dissension between the 
group in Columbus and the group in Cincinnati, and I came up here 
more or less as an ambassador to see if I could get the dissension 
straightened out. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Flynn Harvey present at that meeting, Mr. 
Morris ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Flynn Harvey at that time the Grand 
Dragon for the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the State 
of Ohio? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Flynn Harvey subsequently leave that office ? 

Mr. Morris. Sometime later, yes, sir; or I understood he did. 

Mr. Manuel. For Avhat reason did Mr. Harvey leave that office ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, were charges ever brought 
against Mr. Harvey by members of the Columbus Klavern of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir, I have no knowledge of that. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Robert Leavey of Columbus, Ohio, present 
at the meeting at the Airway Lodge ? 

Mr. Morris. I believe so. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. Leavey to be the exalted cyclops 
of the Columbus Klaveni of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I did not know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know he held an officers' position in that 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. This was a rather informal meeting, and I didn't know 
who the officers were. 

Mr. Manuel. I am sorry, I didn't hear you. 

Mr. Morris. This w^as an inf onnal meeting, and no offices were filled, 
so therefore I don't know who the officers w'ere. 

Mr. Manuel. Is it your testimony that there were no officers elected 
or appointed prior to that meeting? 

Mr. Morris. I don't know whether they were or not. I didn't ap- 
point any. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. William K. Smith at that meeting? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir, I believe so. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. William K. Smith to be a member 
of the Columbus Klavern of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I assumed him to be a member; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. William K. Smith to be an officer 
of that Klavern? 

Mr. Morris. I didn't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Chuck Gilliam present at that meeting? 

Mr. Morris. I believe he was. 



3522 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you knoAv Mr. Gilliam at that time to be a mem- 
ber of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Is it not a fact, Mr. Morris, that Verlin Gilliam was 
initiated into the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at a rally 
held in Stone Mountain, Georgia, over the Labor Day weekend in 
September of 1964? 

Mr. Morris. I wasn't at that rally and I don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Was any pei*son present at the meeting at the Airway 
Lodge who was not a member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir, I don't think so. 

Mr. Manltel. That being the case, then Mr. Gilliam must have been 
a member of the National Knights at that time. 

Mr. Morris. He must have been. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mrs. Eloise Witte at that meeting? 

Mr. Morris. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Was she known by you at that time to be a member 
of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At that time, did she have any title wathin the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I understood her to be head of the women's group. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Barney Ross present at that meeting, Barney 
Ross of Covington, Kentucky. 

Mr. Morris. I am not sure. I don't recall him being there. 

Mr. Manuel. At that time, did you know Barney Ross to be a mem- 
ber of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Curtis Rose present at that meeting? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he, at that time, a member of the National 
Knights ? 

Mr. Morris. So far as I know, he was. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. McKinley Mink of Cincinnnati, Ohio, pres- 
ent at that meeting ? 

Mr. Morris. I don't remember if he was there or not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know McKinley Mink, at that time, to be a 
member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you known since that time that Mr. Mink was 
a member of the National Knights? 

Mr. Morris. I assumed him to be. Not having seen his application, 
I don't know. I suppose so. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, to your certain knowledge, is Mr. Wil- 
liam K. Smith currently a member of the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Is he a member of any Klan at all ? 

Mr. Morris. Not to my knowledge. I think he resigned some time 
back. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge is Mr. Verlin Gilliam a 
member of the Kniffhts of the Ku Klux Klan ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3523 

Mr. Morris. Not of the Knights ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge is Mrs. Eloise Witte a 
member of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mrs. Witte eligible for membership in your organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. Morris. I suppose she would be ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mrs. Witte ever made application to the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan for membership ? 

Mr. Morris. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, is Mrs. Witte a member 
of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at this time ? 

Mr. Morris. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know of any resignation eifected by Mrs. 
Witte regarding her membership in the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I don't. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, concerning the organization which you 
testified about this morning, namely, the Federated Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan of Alabama, was that organization the subject of a 
grand jury inquiry in the year 1949 by a grand jury in the State of 
Alabama ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did that grand jury inquire into the activities of 
the Federated Knights of the Ku Klux Klan with respect to alleged 
acts of terriorism, flogging, and burning on the part of members of 
that organization? 

Mr. Morris. Some flogging incidents were investigated. That is 
all I remember. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, were members of the Fed- 
erated Klans involved in acts of terriorism or flogging in the State of 
Alabama in the year 1949 or any time prior thereto? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. They were not ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, as the result of your appearance before 
the grand jury in 1949 in Alabama, were you sentenced to a jail term 
for contempt of that court ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee why this came 
about? 

Mr. Morris. They asked me for the membership list and the attor- 
ney general had made the statement that he intended to indict not 
only the Klan, but every Klansman in the State of Alabama. I told 
the attorney general that I would help him investigate and help him 
convict if any were guilty if he would let me know who he suspected of 
being guilty. He refused to do that and asked for the names of every 
member in the State of Alabama, which I could not in good conscience 
give him. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that because of an oath that you took of the 
Federated Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 



3524 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, have you held membership in an organi- 
zation in the State of Alabama known as the Caucasians ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. Caucasians? I don't remember any organi- 
zation like that being in existence. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, do you possess any infor- 
mation regarding acts of violence on the part of members of the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever seen or heard of the existence or the 
possession of dynamite by members of the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Morris. I read in the paper that some was discovered in Colum- 
bus ; that is all I can remember. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge of how the dynamite 
got to Columbus ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir ; I certainly do not. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge of a quantity of dyna- 
mite and arms which is being stored in the area of Barnesville, 
Georgia ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Morris, could you tell the committee the number 
of members which you have now in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir. It is very, very small. We are actually not 
ready to launch the organization as yet. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Clawson ? 

Mr. Clawson. I would like to ask one question, Mr. Morris. 

You indicated that you may have some record or correspondence 
this morning appointing men to positions in the Klan. You said it 
might not be a copy of a letter, but an entry of some kind. Did you 
keep a diary or journal of some kind ? 

Mr. Morris. No, sir; I do not. The organization is not completed 
as yet. There must be 16 members of the kloncilium, and it has not 
reached that point yet, so therefore actually it is still more or less a 
paper organization. We hope to project it. 

Mr. Clawson. What is the nature of the appointments you liave 
and what are the records you have in mind ? 

Mr. Morris. I am not certain, but I might have a copy of the cre- 
dentials that I sent these people, and I may not. I don't remember 
whether I do or not. 

Mr. Clawson. If you find that, this would be included with the otlier 
correspondence and other papers and records you are going to give to 
the committee under subpena ? 

Mr. Morris. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Morris, your subpena will be continued to March 1. 
I believe you promised to submit to the staif these records, memoranda, 
and other papers that you have in your possession. After the staff 
receives them and looks them over, we will advise you whether we want 
to question you any further, but you are still under subpena until 
March 1. 

Mr. Morris. Do you want me to mail tliese to you by registered 
letter? 

Mr. Pool. That is riffht. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3525 

Mr. Morris. All right, sir; and you will notify me if you want me 
further ? 

Mr. Pool. And I do advise you to do it as swiftly as you can. 

Mr. Morris. You will get it within a week or 10 days. Is that 
all right? 

Mr. Pool. Your subpena is continued to March 1, so you can decide 
that, but we want to look them over to decide whether we want to 
question you further. We will advise you after we look over the 
records. 

The committee will stand in recess for 4 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Manuel, will you call your next witness? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staft' would like to call at this 
time Mrs. Eloise Witte. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir. But I shall affirm it. 

Mr. Pool. Do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes, sir, I do. 

Mr. Pool. So affirmed. 

TESTIMONY OF ELOISE WITTE 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, would you please state your full name 
for the record. Ma'am ? 

Mrs. Witte. Eloise Witte. 

Mr. Manuel. Where do you currently reside ? 

Mr. Pool. Question her about an attorney first. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, are you represented by counsel? 

Mrs. Witte. No, but counsel is available if I need one. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time, do you desire to have counsel by your 
side? 

Mrs. Witte. No. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you conferred with counsel prior to your ap- 
pearance before the committee ? 

Mrs. Witte. I have talked with many lawyers, not necessarily about 
what you might ask me, but I am well aware of what my rights are. 

Mr. Manuel. You are well aware, as your last statement indicated, 
that you have available to you certain constitutional privileges which 
guarantee you the right not to testify in a matter in which you think 
you might be criminally implicated ? 

Mrs. Witte. I am aware of that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. You are also aware that you can ask for counsel at 
any time ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been provided with a copy of the chair- 
man's opening statement w^hich he made in October of 1965, prior to 
the opening of the hearings into the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. One was given me this morning. 



59-222 O— 67^pt. 5- 



3526 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read that document, Mrs. Witte, and are 
you familiar with its contents ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, would you please tell the committee when 
and where you were born ? 

Mrs. Witte. Marion, North Carolina, August 2, 1925. 

Mr. Manuel. Where do you currently reside ? 

Mrs. Witte. 1654 Otte Avenue, Cincinnati. 

Mr. MiVNUEL. Mrs. Witte, what is your current occupation ? 

Mrs. Witte. Housewife. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever held membership in any Ku Klux Klan 
organization ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee what was the 
first such organization in which you held membership ? 

Mrs. Witte. National Knights. 

Mr. Manuel. When did you join the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mrs. Witte. I refuse to answer that under my rights of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. INLvNUEL. Under what circumstances did you join the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. I shall refuse to answer that under the same gromids. 

Mr. Manuel. During what period did you hold membership in the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Ms. Witte. I shall refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you currently a member of the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. I am. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you currently a member of any other Klan orga- 
nization ? 

Mrs. Witte. No other. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you made application to join other Ku Klux 
Klan organizations ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, I haven't. 

Mr. Manltel. Specifically, Mrs. Witte, have you filled out an appli- 
cation for membership in the United Klans of America? 

Mrs. Witte. No, I haven't. 

Mr. Manuel. While a member of the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, Mrs. Witte, did you hold any office in that organization ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes; I held the title of Empress of Ohio, and this 
commission was given me by Mr. Venable. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlien was this commisison conferred upon you, Mrs. 
Witte? 

Mrs. Witte. About 2 years ago. 

Mr. Manuel. Can you give the committee an approximate date of 
your commission — Did you say Grand Empress? 

Mrs. Witte. Empress. 

No, I don't remember the date. I am sorry. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee briefly what your duties 
are as Empress of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. Well, as the Empress, I am entitled to pass applica- 
tions. I have very little to do with the men's applications, but I can 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3527 

give applications or advice to them as to where to go and what to do, et 
cetera ; I mean as far as the Klan work is concerned, and whom to get in 
touch with for counsel. That is, when I say counsel, I mean advice 
on Klan activities, et cetera. But most of my work would naturally be 
with women. This is an auxiliary to the men's group. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, are you the Empress of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan on a national basis or solely for the 
State of Ohio? 

Mrs. Witte. No ; just for the State of Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, does the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan have persons with the title of Empress in the other 
States in which they operate ? 

Mrs. Witte. I know of no others. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, have you ever disseminated or accepted 
applications for membership in any Klan organization other than 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. I have only used applications for other groups on one 
occasion, and that was at the Parkie Scott's farm over the Labor Day 
weekend and that was only after we had run out of all applications 
for the other group. 

Mr. Manuel. Where did you obtain applications for the other Klan 
groups ? 

Mrs. Witte. Many Klan groups pass my way. As a matter of 
fact, I would suppose within the last 2 years at least 15 Klan groups 
have passed through my house. It is like Grand Central Station. Some 
of them leave their applications. And, of course, at that time some 
of the old Klans people in Ohio had written to many Klan groups 
they heard about in the South at one time or another, and I suppose 
the old Klans people wanted to revive the Klan in the North. So, 
therefore, many of them left applications with me. However, I only 
had one book and I can't even remember who left that with me, but 
it must have been from years back. 

But, nevertheless, it has the same lines on it that any of the other 
books would have had, for instance, for references and everything 
else would have been the same. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, are you appearing before the committee 
this afternoon in response to a subpena which was served to you at 
6 :05 p.m. on the 19th day of December 1965 at 1654 Otte Street in 
Cincinnati by Deputy Marshal Ernest D'Amico? 

Mrs. Witte. That is true, but it is Otte Avenue. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, an attachment, which was made part of 
that subpena, called upon you to produce in the first paragraph of that 
attachment : 

AH books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan and/or the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Inc., in your 
possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as a 
present or former member and/or official of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
and/or the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

Mrs. Witte, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 1, I 
request that you produce the documents called for in that paragraph. 

Mrs. Witte. That was letters ; right ? 

Mr. Manuel. And books, records, documents, correspondence, and 
memoranda. 



3528 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mrs. WiTTE. I only have two letters because most of the correspond- 
ence I destroy as soon as it comes my way and I answer it and toss 
it out. I only have two letters from Mr. Venable as far as records; I 
have never kept any records myself. They go directly to Mr. Morris. 
These are the only letters in my possession. 

Mr. Manuel. In view of paragraph 2 of the subpena, which I shall 

read : 

All memoranda and correspondence between or hy yourself and .Tames R. 
Venable and/or William Hugh Morris, the same being officials of the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan and the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

It seems that you have answered to the second paragraph of that 
subpena. Do you have in your possession any books, records, docu- 
ments, or memoranda other than you have presented today? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever had any such documents? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes, I have ; but as I told you, most of our business was 
on the telephone or in person, certainly nothing discrimintory ever 
came my way, but it is just a habit of mine to destroy correspondence. 

Mr. Manuel. Other than Mr. Venable, have you had contact with 
any other officials of any other Klan organization? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Some have called me on the phone. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee who they are 
and what position they hold in their respective Klan organizations? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir. I refuse to answer that — my rights under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Have you destroyed any correspondence since being 
served with the subpena ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir; I have not. I destroyed it well before the 
subpena. 

Mr. Pool. Have you destroyed any other documents called for in 
the subpena since being served with the subpena ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir; I have not. 

Mrs. Clawson. What was the nature of the correspondence you 
sent to Mr. Morris? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Well, my correspondence with Mr. Morris was — more 
than anything else had to do with just the rally to be held and details 
to be worked out, business to be conducted there, and the dates he could 
be there, et cetera. That is just about the extent of my correspondence 
wnth Mr. Morris. 

Mr. Cl.uvson. You didn't transmit any applications or anything of 
that kind ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Only in person. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, would you please tell the committee if 
there are, at this time, any active Klaverns or units of ladies of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. I shall invoke my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. You invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, would you please inform tlie committee 
what role, if any, you had in organizing the rally which was held 
at Parkie Scott's farm on May 28 and 29 of last year? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, sir. As I told you, many people had come my 
Avay wanting information as to how to get into the Klan or what 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3529 

they could do. They wanted to revive the Klan in Oliio. Mr. Scott 
told me his farm was available, and I made the arrangements for 
the use of that farm. I gave him $1 for the use of the farm and set 
up the rally. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you in attendance at that rally ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I sure was. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, could you inform the 
committee of how many members were initiated into the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan as the result of that rally ? 

Mrs. "WiTTE. I am not sure of the number. I know as many appli- 
cations as we could process between the time of that rally and I 
believe June 27 was the date of the first initiation. All of the appli- 
cations we could process and get mailed out to these people, we did 
that. How many more we couldn't i:)rocess, I don't know. I did not 
count them. I haven't the faintest idea. I know two women worked 
an entire day getting the applications into alphabetical form, but 
these were turned over to Mr. Morris. 

Mr. Pool. Who were the two ladies who helped on that? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I refuse to answer that — my rights under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clawson. When was the last time that you submitted, either 
in person or by mail, any of the documents or applications or instru- 
ments to Mr. Morris? Do you recall the last time? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir; I can't remember, but it would have been 
about the time of the initiation. I suppose these would have been 
the last submitted to Mr. Morris. 

Mr. Clawson. That w\as approximately when ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. That was approximately the first of July. 

Mr. Pool. You admit doing the work yourself, but you say you 
won't tell who the two ladies were that helped you and you invoke 
the fifth amendment? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I said I helped set up the rally. I did not say I was 
the only one who did it and I did not say I was the only one who 
put the applications into alphabetical order. 

Mr. Pool. You did help. 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. I can't understand why it would incriminate these other 
ladies if it does not incriminate you. 

Mrs. WiTTE. That is the only way I can see of protecting these 
people, just by invoking the fifth amendment. I don't mind being- 
identified myself, but as Mr. Morris stated earlier, he took an oath 
not to reveal the identity of people who certainly had no part of any 
wrongdoing, had broken no laws. 

Mr. Pool. Did you take an oath like that? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I certainly did. 

Mr. Pool. In what organization? 

Mrs. WiTTE. The National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Pool. Are you a member of the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Not an auxiliary? 

Mrs. WiTTE. It is an auxiliary, too. We take the same oath. 



3530 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. You take the same oath? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. And you are taking the fifth amendment. 

Mrs. WiTTE. To protect the identity of other people. 

Mr. Pool. Are you taking it to keep from incriminating yourself? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I told them I helped to get them into alphabetical 
order, but I just take it. I know it looks ridiculous, but if you would 
ask me to violate an oath I had taken before, it seems to me this type 
of reasoning could be the same type of reasoning that could make me 
violate my marriage vow. It makes about that much sense to me. 

If they had done anything criminal, I would certainly be the first 
to tell you about it. 

Mr. Pool. You are going to be the judge and jury of all that? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I said I would not reveal their identity. If I have 
to do it that way, then that is the way I will do it. 

Mr. Pool. You are talking to a committee of Congress trying to 
get the facts. You are just up here to answer the questions. If you 
want to take the fifth amendment, you can do so. 

Mrs. WiTTE. Then I take the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Then I can't understand why you invoke it in the case 
of those two ladies, but I wouldn't argue the point. 

I would like to clarify for the record though as to whether you are 
taking the fifth amendment to protect yourself from incrimination 
or in accordance with your oatli that you took. Whicli is predomi- 
nant? Which is the reason that you are pleading the fifth amend- 
ment right now? 

Mrs. WiTTE. The real reason is because of an oath I took not to 
reveal the identity of another person. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to answer the question. 

Mrs. WiTTE. I shall invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. But you just said that the reason is that you are doing 
it on account of the oath you took and that is not a valid reason 
before this committee. 

Mrs. WiTTE. You know very well I have the right to take the fifth 
amendment, sir, and I shall. 

Mr. Pool. You are really taking the fifth amendment so as not to 
incriminate yourself. If that is what you want the record to show, 
it 

Mrs. WiTTE. Then the record shows I took the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, in this letter which you have just pro- 
vided the committee dated April 7, 1965, addressed to yourself and 
signed by Mr. James R. Venable, the last paragi'aph of that letter 
reads as follows : 

I wrote Brother Huff and I am sure that he will do every thing that he can 
to help us to preserve our white race. If there are any two people in Ohio that 
can get the K's off up there I am sure they are you and Brother Huff. 

Would you please identify for the committee, Mrs. Witte, the 
"Brother Huff" referred to in the letter? 

Mrs. Witte. Mr. Walter Huff. You asked Mr. Morris about liim a 
while ago. He is the same Mr. Huff. 

(Document marked "Eloise Witte Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3531 



Eloise WiTTE Exhibit No. 1 



James R. Venable 

ATTORNEY AT UAW 
WALTER R. BROWN BUILDING - OPPOSITE COURT HOUSE - ATLANTA 3 OEORQIA 



ASSOCIATK 

H. O. McBRAYER. JR. 

Residence Phong DR 3-2003 



Office Phones 

MUrry 8-9137 

JACKSON 4-4966 

Residence Phone 

Stone Mountain 469-9786 

Tucker. Ga. Office 938-5921 



April 7, 1965 



Mrs. Eloise Witts 
1654 Otte Avenue 
Cincinnati, Ohio 

Dear Mrs. Witte: 

I was indeed glad that jou c ailed me concerning the meeting 
there. Please get written permission from the owner of the 
property to use the premises and paj hin a charge for rental 
which can be small, even fl.OO will do. 

In the near future I will send jou some money for circulars. 
You should try to get this meeting advertised where you can 
have a large crowd. 

It may be that you can get the boys to get ahold of some old 
telephone posts, wrap it with burlap, soak in oil and kerosene 
and use as a burning cross. 

I believe you said the meetings would be the 29th, 30th, and 
31st of Hay so please confirm the dates and I will be there. 

The circulars should advertise as "Knights of The Ku Klux Klan" 
using the 1| Ks. 

I wrote brother Huff and I am sure that he will do every thing 
that he can to help us to preserve our white race. If there 
are any two people in Ohio that can get the K» a off up there 
I am sure they are you and Brother ^ixi 

8 very truly, 

,1 




Venable 



Mr. Manuel. Well, do you know him to be an imperial officer of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan % 

Mrs. Witte. I do not know him to be an officer. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know him to be an officer of the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. No; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, you have testified that you have partici- 
pated in the prepartion of a Klan rally which was held on the farm 



3532 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

of Parkie Scott. Would you please tell the committee for which orga- 
nization, the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, you engaged in these activities ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Mr. Venable contacted me and asked me to put out the 
circulars under the four Ks. That is the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Which Klan organization to your knowledge spon- 
sored the rally ? 

Mrs, WiTTE. The National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Ohio 
had had their charter revoked. So I assumed they were coming in — 
I mean just under another name, but still the same people. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know for what reason the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan had their charter revoked in the State of Ohio? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Because when they applied for a charter it shook the 
State to its eye roots. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, did you participate in the organizing of 
the Klan rally which was held near Brunswick, Ohio, on August 19, 
20, and 21, 1965? 

Mrs. Witte. No ; I was in Canada. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you participate in the organization of the rally 
which was held in Lodi, near Cleveland ? 

Mrs. Witte. What was the date ? 

Mr. Manuel. September 18, 19, 1965. 

Mrs. Witte. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you in attendance at that rally ? 

Mrs. Witte. I was not. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever maintained any bank accounts or post 
office boxes on behalf of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir. 

Mr. INIanuel. Have you ever been present at any initiation ceremony 
of either the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or the Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mrs. Witte. Except my own ; no. 

Mr. Manuel. When was your own held ? 

Mrs. Witte. I refuse to answer that — fifth amendment. 

Mr. Manuel. Who administered the oath to you, Mrs. Witte, in 
order for you to become a member of the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. I also refuse to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you attended any meetings or functions of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan outside of the State of Ohio? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee when you did so ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir; I refuse to ans^yer that on the ground stated 
before. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee where you attended 
functions of that organization outside of the State of Ohio. 

Mrs. Witte. No ; for the same reason. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever attended rallies at Stone Mountain, 
Georgia. 

Mrs. Witte. No ; I have not. 

Mr, Pool. You said you were a member of an auxiliary, I believe. 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3533 

Mr. Pool. But you are allowed to attend meetings of the Ku Klux 
Klan ; is tliat correct ? 

]Mrs. WiTTE. Certainly meetings, rallies, things of that sort, yes; 
but not their closed meetings. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, are you acquainted with an individual 
named Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir; to my knowledge I never have met the man, 
although Mr. Morris told me — after reading in the paper what I did 
about liim, I asked Mr. ^Morris if he had been present at any of the 
meetings wliere I had been. He told me yes, he has been on occasion 
to one meeting or another, and I think it was a rally, but to my knowl- 
edge I have never met the individual. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, Mrs. Witte, what active Klans 
now exist of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the State 
of Ohio? 

Mrs. Witte. Well, since the State of Ohio revoked the charter, I 
would say that all of the Klans are just Klans. They don't go under, 
I believe, any particular title, national or otherwise. They are just 
Klans, Klanspeople. 

Mr. MvNUEL. Would you identify, to the best of your knowledge, 
the locations of the units which you describe as Klans in the State of 
Ohio? 

Mrs. Witte. No; of course, a lot of information has come my way, 
a lot of people come to my house, and a lot of people do a lot of talk- 
ing about what they are doing in particular areas, but not firsthand 
knowledge. So I don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee any knowledge you 
have in that regard ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. On wdiat basis? 

Mrs. Witte. Under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. M\nuel. To your knowledge, does the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan have an active organization in the city of Cleveland? 

Mrs. Witte. I have heard from many individuals in Cleveland and 
they do seem to be doing very well. 

Mr. Manuel, What individual in Cleveland have you heard from 
in the regard ? 

Mrs. Witte. I refuse to answer that under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, are there membei^ of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the Cleveland area? 

Mrs. Witte. I did not see them initiated so, therefore, I cannot 
verify the fact. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, as the Grand Empress of the ladies 
units of the National Knights in the State of Ohio, would you please 
tell the committee how you determine whether a person is a member 
of the Klan, or not ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir; I refuse to answer that on the same grounds, 
as stated before. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, do you know an individual by the name 
of Daniel Wagner? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee when you first met 
Daniel Wagner ? 



3534 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mrs. WiTTE. The first contact I had with Daniel was on a Satur- 
day afternoon. He called my home. This must have been a bit more 
than a year ago. Then one mornino; my daughter brought him in 
with the Sunday morning paper. He had been sitting on my porch 
for about 2 hours. 

He stuck like glue. He wanted so desperately to be recognized as 
something important, to be important, to do something important. So 
I tried to give him small things to do, to make him feel that he was 
accomplishing something. 

But I thought Danny was a psychopath. After he came to my house 
the jfirst time or two, he started trying to help me. He wanted to really 
help me. He was writing letters to magazines and newspapers all over 
the country and he would send them to me for my signature. He 
thought he was really accomplishing something, or helping the cause 
along, by doing this. Well, I wouldn't send tliem to the editors, of 
course. After a while, be became a little disenchanted with this. 

Then he found the Klan was on the scene, and especially after this 
rally was first announced. So, he wanted to join. 

All this time, Danny had been maintaining he had an honorable 
discharge from tlie Army, and he was supposed to be a very bright boy, 
though his language was very bad, and I didn't especially care about 
having him around my children, but still I tried to be patient with 
him and hoped eventually he would straighten up and be a man. 

Mr. Manuel. ]\Irs. Witte, you testified that Mr. Wagner called you 
on the telephone. 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. And that was your first contact with him; approxi- 
mately a year ago. Is that correct? 

Mrs. Witte. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. Why did Mr. Wagner contact you ? 

Mrs. Witte. Because I probably raised more Cain than anybody else 
in Cincinnati. 

Mr. Pool. What do you mean by that ? 

Mrs. Witte. I mean I am in several right Aving groups. When some- 
thing comes my way that I don't like and think can be changed, I will 
go out and picket, if necessary, and, if necessary, circulate petitions 
on the street, or do whatever is necessaiy to quell the situation. 

Mr. Pool. Did you ever engage in any unlawful acts ? 

Mrs. Witte. If I had, sir, I think I would have been arrested. 

Mr. Pool. You didn't answer my question. 

Mrs. Witte. Well, not for publication. 

Mr. Pool. You still didn't answer my question. 

Mrs. Witte. Not to my knowledge. I don't even spit on the 
sidewalk. 

Mr. Pool. That would be a good place for you to invoke the fifth 
amendment. 

Mrs. Witte. No ; I think I will just leave that as is. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, do you know how Mr. Wagner got your 
phone number or got information about you in order to call you? 

Mrs. Witte. Well, I think through the newspapers, probably, be- 
cause we had a Eussian health exhibit coming to our music hall, and 
there was quite a bit of publicity about that. I think that is possibly 
the way he would have found out something about me. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3535 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, on approximately how many separate 
occasions did you meet with Mr. Wagner? 

Mrs. Witte. I don't think more than three or four, before the rally. 

Mr. Manuel. When was the last time that you had contact with Mr. 
Wagner ? 

Mrs. Witte. About the first part of June. 

Mr. Manuel. Of 1965 ? 

Mrs. Witte. 1965 ; yes. 

Mr. Manuel. On that last contact with Mr. Wagner, would you 
please tell the committee what was discussed? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes; he wanted to fill out an application for the Klan. 
He had started to fill out one before and, as I told you before, he had 
told us he was 21, had finished his duties in the service. 

So he started to fill out his application and he got as far as his age, 
and then I took his application from him. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you provide Mr. Wagner with an application for 
a Klan group ? 

Mrs. Witte. I provide lots of people. 

Mrs. Manual. Specifically ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, I gave him an application. Yes, as a matter of 
fact, I have the same one here, partially filled. That is where I took it, 
and I did not allow him to continue filling out the application. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you at any time, Mrs. Witte, accept any money 
from Mr. Wagner as an initiation fee or as a klectokon for Klan 
membership ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, sir. As you can see, his application is incomplete. 
I did not accept anything from him. As a matter of fact, at the point 
you see, I took the application from him. I would not allow him to 
finish it. 

(Document marked "Eloise Witte Exhibit No. 2" appears on p. 3536.) 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner did write at the request of Mr. Morris, 
according to Mr. Morris' own testimony, a letter (Bobby Stephens 
Exhibit No. 5) in which he set down certain descriptions of conversa- 
tions which he allegedly had with you. 

In the course of this letter, Mr. Wagner stated that it was through 
you that he purchased a weapon, namley, a .250 Savage rifle, and also 
a .32 caliber Mauser, from one W. A. Davis, of Dayton, Ohio. 

Mrs. Witte. At my instigation ? 

Mr. Manuel. This is what he put in. 

Mr. Pool. Read exactly what the letter says about that. 

Mr. Manuel. [Reading:] 

On April 10, 1965 I accompannied [sic] Mrs. Witte and others to an N.S.R.P. 
meeting at 224 Oalc St., Dayton 2, Ohio. After the meeting Mrs. Witte introduced 
a Mr. W. A. Davis to me in hopes of acquiring a weapon for myself. Mr. Davis 
sold me a 32 German Mauser pistol and a 250 savage Rifle. He then had me fill 
out an I.O.U. stating what I had purchased and the price. I mailed Mr. Davis 
$75.00 on April 12, 1965, and $50.00 on April 29, 1965. 

Now, Mrs. Witte, do you know W. A. Davis? 

Mr. Witte. I have met the gentleman, yes; and T know that he is 
a legitimate gini dealer, but I did not ask Danny to buy a gun. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know for a fact whether Mr. Wagner did 
purchase the guns which he describes in this letter? 



3536 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Eloise Witte Exhibit No. 2 




APPUCATION FOR CITIZENSHIP 

IN THE 
INVISIBLE EMPIRE 

Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 




I, the undersigned, a native born, true and loyal citizen of the United States of America, being a white male Gentile persoa 
of temperate habits^ sound in mind and a believer in the tenets of the Christian religion, the maintenance of White Supremacy and 
the principles of a "pure Americanism," do most respectfully apply for membership in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan through 
Kl^ No , Realm of 

I guarantee on my honor to conform strictly to all rules and requirements regulating my "naturalization" and the continuance 
of my membership, and at all times a strict and loyal obedience to your constitutional authority and the constitution and laws of the 
fraternity, not in conflict with the constitution and constitutional laws of the United States of America and the states thereof. If I 
\jTOve untrue as a Klansman I will willingly accept as my portion whatever penalty your authority may impose. 

The required "klectokon" accompanies this application. 

Signed Applicant 

Endoised by Residence Address 

KI Business Address , 

KI Date , 19 

The person securing this application must sign on top line above. NOTICE — Check the address to which mail may be sent. 



NOTICE 

The sum of this donation MUST 
accompany application, if poss'ble. 
Upon payment of same by appli- 
cant this certificate is made out 
and signed by person securing ap- 
plication, then detached and given 
to applicant, who will keep same 
and bring it with him when he is 
called, and then turn it in on de- 
mand in lieu of the cash. 

DO NOT detach if donation is 
not paid in advance. 



This certifies that 



has donated the : 



"DOLLARS to the propagating fund of the 



Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 

and same is accepted as such and as full sum of "KLECTOKON" entitling him to be 
received, on the acceptance of his application, under the laws, regulations and require- 
ments of the Order, duly naturalized and to have and to hold all the rights, titles, hon- 
ors and protection as a citizen of the Invisible Empire. He enters through the portal of 




Klan No 



Realn 



Date 

Received in trust for the 
KNIGHTS OF THE KU KLUX KLAN 







(Back of Application for Citizenship) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3537 

Mrs. WiTTE. I can't vouch for that because I was not with Danny 
and I have never been to Mr. Davis' home or shop. The only contact 
I have had witli Mr. Davis has been in NSRP meetings. 

On occasion, he lias been to Cincinnati to the NSRP meetings, and 
I have from time to time visited Dayton. On the particuLar date 
he specifices, that was one of the mornings he was brought in with 
the paper, and I was to address an afternoon meeting in Dayton, Ohio, 
of the NSRP. 

He wanted to go along, because that was half way back to Columbus, 
and he could ride back. He became acquainted with many people 
there. 

Later he told me that he had bought the guns, but as I said before, 
I did not go with him. I did not encourage him to buy them and I 
don't even know what Mr. Davis has, though I know he has a license 
to deal in weapons. 

Mr. Pool. Did the letter state that she introduced Mr. Davis to 
Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Manuel. The letter states : 

After the meeting Mrs. Witte introduced a Mr. W. A. Davis to me in hopes of 
acquiring a weapon for myself. 

Mrs. Witte. Why does he say "in hopes" ? I don't know what is 
wrong with the boy. 

Mr. Pool. Did you introduce Mr. Wagner ? 

Mrs. Witte. I must have introduced him to hundreds of people. 

Mr. Pool. That same day ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, sir. All the people T knew in that meeting I 
introduced to him, because my daughter and her boyfriend, as well as 
Danny and myself, went along to that meeting. So the people in the 
meeting I knew, I introduced them to the children, as well as to Danny, 
but certainly with no idea about buying weapons. 

Mr. Clawson. Did you identify this gentleman as a dealer in fire- 
arms, in your introduction ? 

Mrs. Witte. I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him. If anyone told 
him, it must have been Mr. Davis himself. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

You never have answered my question as to the reason why you 
introduced Mr. Davis to Mr. Wagner. 

Mrs. Witte. When you are in a meeting, why do you introduce 
one person to another? Simply because they are your friends, or 
because you want them to be acquainted with them. 

Mr. Pool. I am asking you the question: Why did you introduce 
Mr. Davis to Mr. Wagner? It is verj' simple. Wliy did you? 

Mrs. Witte. That sounds like a strange question to me. Wlien I 
am in a meeting with anybody, I introduce them to each other. 

Mr. Pool. Is your answer that you had no reason to introduce them 
to each other? 

Mrs. Witte. I had no particular reason to introduce them, no, except 
they were just people and all thinking alike, so everybody should be- 
come acquainted with everybody else. 

Mr. Pool. And you knew Mr. Davis was a gun dealer, though? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, I was aware of that. 

Mr. Pool. And you didn't know Mr. Wagner wanted to buy a gun ? 



3538 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mrs. WiTTE. He had mentioned it to me months before, but I don't 
think — possibly the latter part of January, or maybe in February, he 
had mentioned to me something about he was afraid in his place of 
work, and so forth, but I did not introduce him to Mr. Davis for the 
purpose of buying a gun, because I was to speak there that day. 

Mr. Pool. Then I will ask you this question : You did not introduce 
Mr. Davis to Mr. Wagner so that they could get together to buy a gun ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Certainly not. 

Mr. Pool. Is that your answer? 

Mrs. WiTTE. That is my answer, because I am sure there are plenty 
of gun dealers in Columbus, if he wanted to buy one. 

Mr. Pool. 1 am just trying to get to the fact, and you still haven't 
told me the reason wdiy you introduced them. 

You remember introducing him, so you must have had a reason. 

Mrs. WiTTE. I don't remember specifically introducing him, but I 
said I introduced him to a lot of people, because he was a stranger 
on the scene. 

Mr. Pool. That does not answer the question. 

Mrs. WiTTE. 1 think it is a pretty good answer. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, was Daniel Wagner, to your certain 
knowledge, present at the Klan rally held at Parkie Scott's farm on 
May 28 and 29? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, he was. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he at any time during that rally wearing a Klan 
robe? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, he took one off the clothesline. 

Mr. Manuel. He did what? 

Mrs. Witte. He took a Klan robe from the clothesline. Someone 
had hung one out in the air to get the wrinkles or folds out, so Danny 
just grabbed it and decided to go down there and make a big splash 
before the new^spaper people. 

Mr. Manuel. WTiat contact did you have with Mr. Wagner prior 
to that rally? 

Mrs. Witte. He told me he had a vacation coming and he was so 
desperate to do something, I mean to be helpful to us in some way, 
because I would not use his letters that he was writing to the news- 
papers and magazines, would not allow him to be a correspondent for 
me, in other words, and Parkie needed someone to clean up the dead 
trees and that sort of thing in an area wdiich was to be used for 
parking. 

Danny agreed to go down and help. He agreed to go down and 
clean up the farm on his week off, and that is his purpose there. 

Mr. Pool. We have had testimony that Mr. Davis and Mr. Wagner 
were introduced by you for the purpose of purchasing a gun. 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. And you say you did not introduce them for that 
purpose? 

Mrs. WiiTE. I say I did not. 

Mr. Pool. You answered my question a while ago and said that was 
not the purpose of introducing them. 

Mrs. Witte. That was not the purpose of introducing them. 

Mr. Pool. What w^as the purpose of introducing them, then ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN TN THE U.S. 3539 

Mrs. WiTTE. The purpose of introducing them was because they did 
not know each other, and I introduced him to at least 50 people in that 
meeting and introduced him for the purpose of making him acquainted 
with them. 

Mr. Pool. I am making this serious, because you knew he wanted to 
buy a gun and you knew Mr. Davis was in the gun business. 

Mrs. WiTTE. Mr. Davis was in a long line of people. 

Mr. Pool. Somebody is committing perjury in this hearing, and the 
transcript will show that. 

Mrs. WiTTE. Sir, if I had wanted him to buy a gun, I know dealers 
closer to me than up in Dayton where I coulcl have sent him. I did 
not have to send him to Mr. JDavis. 

Mr. Pool. Why do you know all these gun dealers ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I just happen to know a lot of them. 

Mr. Pool. Are you an expert on guns ? Is that the reason ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Not exactly. 

Mr. Pool. Can you explain that any further, why you know so many 
gun dealers ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. A lot of them just happen to cross my path, just as a 
lot of teachers have crossed my path, too. 

Mr. Pool. Well, I have given you a chance to explain it. 

Mrs. WiTTE. I have no particular reason for knowing any gun deal- 
ers. I do not deal in them, I do not buy them, and I do not introduce 
people to them for the purpose of buying guns. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, Mr. Wagner stated in his letter that his 
first contact with you came on or about the 19th of March 1965. 

Mrs. Witte. That is a lie. 

Mr. Pool. IVliat was that ? 

Mr. Manuel. I said Mr. Wagner in his letter stated that his first 
contact with Mrs. Witte came on or about the 19th or 20th of March 
1965. 

Mr. Pool. He testified to that the other day ? 

Mr. Manuel. That was in his letter. 

Mr. Pool. Now, you say he is a liar ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes, 

Mr. Pool. Then we have a clear case of perjury here. Someone is 
committing perjury. 

Go ahead. 

Mrs. Witte. He came to me the first time, I think the first time, in 
January, and I know for sure that by that time he had paid one or two 
visits to me before the Russian health exhibit, which would have been 
the 20th of February of last year, at the music hall, because he went 
there with me and he picketed that music hall in Cincinnati the 20th 
of February. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that the first time you had met Mr. Wagner? 

Mrs. Witte. No; he had been down once before. He callecl me on 
the teleplione, and I think once or twice he had been to my house before 
the 20th of February. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner makes mention of that particular activity 
in his letter, and he states as follow^s: 

Mrs. Witte found that I didn't believe in these small marches or protest but 
in much larger protest or in drastic steps. 



3540 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Now, did Mr. Wagner convey to you the idea at that time that he 
was • 

Mrs. WiTTE. That he believed in more drastic steps ? 

Mr. Manuel, les. 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee what conversation you 
had with Mr. Wagner along those lines ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I told Mr. Wagner we have tAvo ways to do it, that is, 
the ballot and the boycott. We can protest to draw attention to our 
grievance, but we can only take legal steps to remedy, and it must be 
by one of the other of the two things I mentioned to him, and not the 
type of thing he was speaking of. 

Mr. Manuel. What type of thing was he speaking of ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Well, apparently he believed in a mass march on 
Washington, for one thing. He believed someone should come up here 
and turn Washington up side down, 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever have conversations with INIr. Wagner 
subsequent to this time concerning specific acts of violence, such as 
murder, assassination, or anything like that? 

Mrs. Witte. Well, Danny is quite a loud mouth, and he does a 
lot of talking, but I can't remember a particular instance where he 
said he wanted to murder anyone. 

Mr. Manuel. Your testimony is that he never discussed with 
you, nor you with him— — 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute, Mr. Manuel. 

You did not answer his question. You have given general and 
evasive answers. Now answer his question. 

The reporter will read the question back. 

(The question was read by the reporter.) 

Mrs. Witte. Do you want me to give something I don't remem- 
ber, and then give a "no" to something I remember later ? 

Mr. Pool. Did you have any conversation along that line ? 

Answer the question. 

Mrs. Witte. I have no conversation with him. 

Mr. Pool. Did he say anything? 

Mrs. Witte. I told you I am trying to remember. 

Mr. Pool. We will give you plenty of time. How long do you 
want ? 

Mrs. Witte. I Imow I had a bad time keeping him under control, 
because he thought there should be mass demonstrations, but he didn't 
say anything to me about murdering anyone. 

Mr. Pool. Do you deny his statement that he did have that con- 
versation ? 

Mrs. Witte. I am saying I can't remember an instance where he 
did mention murder to me. 

Mr. Pool. Do you deny his statement ? 

Mrs. Witte. I told you I don't remember his ever saying anything 
like this to me. 

Mr. Pool. You have a chance here to deny his statement, if you 
want to take advantage of it. 

Mrs. Witte. Well, if I could remember an instance where he 
wanted to murder someone, I would tell you. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3541 

Mr. Pool. There are just two people who know anything about 
it, you and him. Now, do you want to deny his statement? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I tliink at all times Mr. Wagner has been with me 
someone else has been present, whether it was Mr. Morris, my hus- 
band, my children, and I am quite sure he would not have spoken 
of this before them. 

Mr. Pool. So you refuse to deny his statement? Is that right? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I am not denying it, nor confinning it. I am say- 
ing I do not remember an instance where he spoke to me of murder. 

Mr. Maxuel. Specifically, Mrs. Witte, did you converse with 
Mr. Wagner with regard to a possible assassination of Mr. William 
Hugh Morris, which was supposed to take place at Parkie Scott's 
farm? 

]\Irs. Witte. Certainly not. 

I have heard about this plot, but Mr. Morris was living at my 
house, and I think I had ample opportunity if I wanted to do away 
with him, to put a little something in his coffee, but he continued 
to live with me. He was living at our house, and certainly he was 
a very fine guest. 

Mr. Pool. That might be more easily detected. 

Mrs. Witte. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Pool. Putting something in his coff'ee might be more easily 
detected. 

Mrs. Witte. Well, maybe; but, no, I had never thought about 
doing away with Mr. Morris. As a matter of fact, he is one of my 
best people. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Wagner ever convey to you that he was 
an expert with an M-1 rifle ? 

Mrs. Witte. No. 

Mr. Manuel. He did not? 

Mrs. Witte. He did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever have any conversation with him with 
regard to him acting as a sniper against Negroes ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, indeed. 

Danny, I suppose, if you asked him, would tell you I never advo- 
cated such a thing. I have told him always we must stay well 
within the law, that we would tolerate no such nonsense. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he talk to you about it, though? Did he sug- 
gest it to you ? 

Mrs. Witte. Well, a time or two, he jokingly said, "We ought 
to get out and stir up something," but he didn't say what. 

Mr. Manuel. Specifically, did he mention in conversation with 
you, or you with him, ways of killing President Johnson or Vice 
President Humphrey ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, indeed. 

Mr. Manuel. He never did ? 

Mrs. Witte. He never did. 

Mr. Manuel. You never had a conversation in that regard with 
Mr. Wagner wdiatsoever ? 

Mrs. Witte. No, indeed. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever have a conversation with Mr. Wagner 
in the presence of Mr. Richard Hanna ? 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 5 



3542 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mrs. WiTi'E. Mr. Hanna? He has been to my house on several 
occasions, and I suppose their paths might have crossed there. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, did you converse with 
Mr. Wagner in tlie presence of Mr. Hanna ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I suppose I have on occasion. 

Yes, I did. I remember once he was to my house, and as a mat- 
ter of fact he went over to Covington and stayed either with Mr. 
Hanna or somewhere in that vicinity, but they Avere to my house 
for an evening. 

Mr. Manuel. What was the conversation which took place at that 
particular evening, as you remember it ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. They both wanted to get into the Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Did either one of them actually join the Klan as a 
result of their meeting with you ? 

Mrs. White. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Wagner 
in the presence of Mr. Hanna to the effect that you wanted to take 
some violent action against your husband ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No. They knew my husband didn't agree with me. 
As a matter of fact, I had — both of these boys are a little upset 
mentally, I think. Well, they are emotionally disturbed, at least, and 
my husband 

Mr. Pool. Do you have some reason to say that ? Have they been 
examined by psychiatrists ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. One of my friends is a phychiatric nurse, and she be- 
lieves Mr. Hanna is way overboard. 

Mr, Pool. Is she qualified to pass judgment on someone like that? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. A psychiatric nurse ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. What is her name ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Her name is Mrs. Thomas Cameron. 

Mr. Pool. Where does she live? 

Mr. WiTTE. On Davy Avenue, in College Hill. 

Well, she knows that he is emotionally disturbed 

Mr. Manuel. You are talking about Mr. Hanna, now? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes. 

I tried to engage both my husband and Mr. Morris to help these 
boys to live a more normal life. Let's put it that way. To teach them 
to bowl, to teach them to take some interest in sports, or something 
besides just having hate on their mind 24 hours a day. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner in his letter said that he knew Mr. 
Hanna to be, as he put it, a late member of the Nazi Party in Ken- 
tucky. Did you know Mr. Richard Hanna to be a member of the 
Nazi Party, or American Nazi Party ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. When Mr. Hanna first came to me, he was a member 
of Rockwell's group. He had been up here Washington on several 
occasions, or over in Arlington. I encouraged him to get out, and lie 
did and he sent a copy of a letter charging him with mutiny by 
Rockwell. 

Mr. Pool. Charging him with what? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Mutiny. That is what he charges people with who 
drop out of his group. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3543 

But yes, I did encourage Mr. Hanna to drop out of the group. 

Mr. Manuel. Why did you maintain contact with Mr. Hanna? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Because I wanted to help him. 

Mr. Manuel. But you would not get him into the Klan ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir ; I would not get him into the Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he know you to be an official of the Klan? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you give him an application ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever collect money or klectokon from him 
as initiation fee ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever make the statement to Mr. Wagner 
that your husband had threatened to commit you to a mental insti- 
tution ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No. 

Mr. Manuel. You never did ? 

Mrs. WiTTE, I did not. 

Mr. Pool. Did your husband ever threaten you that way ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No, sir; he doesn't like my activities in the Klan, but 
he doesn't give me credit for being a fool. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you think he should ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I think maybe he should learn something about the 
Klan. As a matter of fact, I think a lot of people ought to learn 
something about it, then I don't suppose we would have so much 
confusion about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever make the statement to Mr. Wagner 
that the Klan had hired a gunman for $25,000? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Heavens, no. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Wagner re- 
garding the appearance of Martin Luther King at Antioch College 
in Yellow Sprmgs, Ohio ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No. 

Mr. Manuel. None whatsoever ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I had no contact with him about it. However he 
read it in tlie paper and he gave me a call about it, and he also had 
written a letter prior to King's appearance saying he hoped I 
wouldn't be alarmed with him, but he had some ideas that he wanted 
to carry out, and so forth. But Mr. Morris was at my house at that 
time, and he knows I refused to talk with Danny on the telephone. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Wagner ever tell you what these plans were 
that he had for Martin Luther King? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No ; he didn't tell me. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you introduce Mr. Morris to Mr. Wagner? 

Mrs. Witte. Mr. Morris was living at my home once when Danny 
came down ; yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that the first time Mr. Wagner ever met Mr. 
Morris to your knowledge? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Now let's give Mr. Pool time to find out why I introduced them. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell tlie committee what date approxi- 
mately the meeting between Mr. Morris and Mr. Wagner took 
place? 



3544 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mrs. WiTTE. I have no idea, but it would have been sometime, I 
think, about the time of the rally. 

Mr. Manuel. Wliich would mean that you had known Mr. Wag- 
ner for approximately 5 or 6 months, is that correct, according to 
your testimony ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. From about, I suppose, the latter part of January; 
yes. 

Mr. Maxuel. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Morris 
not in the presence of Mr. Wagner regarding Mr. Wagner's char- 
acter or his conversations with you ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes; I told him he was not emotionally stable and 
I told him he was not fit for anything, but perhaps with a little 
patience on the part of himself and my husband, they could make 
him feel important by giving him small things to do which didn't 
amount to much, but they might be able to get him on the right 
path. 

Mr. Clawson. What acts or staternents had led you to believe 
Mr. Wagner was a psychopathic case or an emotional case? "Wliat 
did he say or do? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Well, you know, always talking about going out and 
a mass march, or a mob doing something. As a matter of fact, I 
think that is what he thought the Klan was supposed to do — just 
become a violent mob. 

Mr. Clawson. A violent mob. 

Mrs. Wptte. I think that is what he had in mind. 

Mr. Clawson. He talked about mob violence? 

Mrs. WiTTE. Yes ; I am quite sure that that is what he wanted. 

Mr. Clawson. Along with this, did he speak of the kind of action 
that might be accomplished by this? 

Mrs. WiTTE. No; he didn't tell me what sort of action because 
I never let him get that far. I tried to always change the subject 
or get him on to something more rational, because I am sure I made 
it quite clear we do not believe in mob action. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, did you ever have a conversation with 
Mr. Wagner in which you conveyed the idea to Mr. Wagner that 
you were the secret head of the Klans of the Dixie Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan in the State of Ohio? 

Mrs. Witte. No, indeed. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever give Mr. Wagner an application for 
the Dixie Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mrs. Witte. Not to my knowledge ; no. 

However, I must tell you this. I trusted Danny. He was in my 
home quite a lot. Sometimes I had to leave. I mean quite often. 
I have left him in my house alone. 

Mr. Clawson. With your children ? 

Mrs. Witte. No; I mean absolutely alone, but I thought since, 
well, he had told us the story about being deserted when he was a 
baby by his mother, so I thought just the normal home environment 
might do something for him, to make him know he was trusted, 
to make him think that we liked him and wanted to help him or to 
accept him at least. 

I mean it is possible that he might have found the Klan applica- 
tion. I am not sure if he went through my things while I was out 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3545 

or not, but I am sure he will tell you he was on occasion in my 
home alone. 

Mr. Manuel. How did you find out, Mrs. Witte, that Mr. Wagner 
had written this letter? 

Mrs. Witte. The other day Mr. Morris and Mr. Venable came 
by my hotel room and had told me. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you had not heard of the existence 
of this letter prior to your stay in Wasliington ? 

Mrs. Witte. I didn't know about a letter. Mr. Morris did tell 
me that he had heard of a plot underfoot to do away with the Presi- 
dent and my husband, himself, Martin Luther King, and Humphrey. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he tell you that Mr. Wagner had put this ma- 
terial in a letter which was read to him by Mr. Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mrs. Witte. He mentioned about the plot, but I dichi't know it 
was in the form of a letter. Perhaps Mr. Morris mentioned it, but 
it was so ridiculous I just forgot about the whole thing. 

Mr. Manuel. On what date did Mr. Morris inform you of this 
information? 

Mrs. Witte. I don't remember. It was sometime in the summer. 

Mr. Clawson. Did he tell you it was Mr. Wagner's letter? 

Mrs. Witte. Mr. Wagner's; yes. 

Mr. Clawson. He did tell you it was Mr. Wagner's idea? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mr. Morris ever actively 
investigate the charges or the information contained in this letter 
to find out wliether they were true or false? 

Mrs. Witte. I don't know what Mr. Morris did about it. I heard 
his testimony today, but he did not tell me about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Morris ever ask you for an affirmation or 
denial as to the material contained in this letter? 

Mrs. Witte. No. When he mentioned it, we just laughed about it. 
We thought it was a big joke. We didn't think anybody could be 
that much of a fool. 

Mr. Clawson. Knowing he was unstal:»le and you called him a 
psychopathic case, do you think you should have taken it as lightly 
as you did, that this man might carry out some of the things he 
said here? 

Mrs. Witte. Mr. Clawson, I found this to be the case — most peo- 
ple who do that much talking never go into action. No, I never did 
think he would do anything like that, I really didn't. 

Mr. Clawson. Did you take any steps at all to see that it wouldn't 
happen ? 

Airs. Witte. After the letter? 

Mr. Clawson. Yes, or after you heard about it, after you heard 
this plot was underway ? 

Mrs. Witte. No; because by that time I stopped answering my 
telephone and I was trying to stay away from him as mucli as I 
could. He was just annoying us. Appeared every time he liad a 
day oft' and he called two or three or four times a night. 

Mr. Clawson. Did you notify any law enforcement officers of this 
threat? 

Mrs. WmT.. No; I didn't think it was serious. I thought he 
misfht hav^e taken this method of retaliation because he was denied 



3546 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

membership in the Klan. I really didn't think he would try to 
carry through on anything as ridiculous as this. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner further testified on October 25, 1965,^ 
in the presence of Verlin Gilliam and Bobby J. Stephens, he was 
administered an oath by Mr. Morris to become a member of the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Do you know if tliis testimony is 
true or not ? 

Mrs. WiTTE. I doubt this very much. I will tell you this: Mr. 
Stephens is another one I told to look after Danny to see to it that 
he got him on the riglit path. So I would say right offhand if an 
oath was administered, Stephens would have done it, because I 
don't think Mr. Morris would have. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Witte, prior to your appearance this after- 
noon, have you discussed any or all of your testimony with Mr. 
Robert Shelton ? 

Mrs. WrrTE. No ; certainly not. 

Mr. Manuel. You have not had any conversation with Mr. 
Shelton ? 

Mrs. Witte. Yes; the first day I came to my hotel I met him. 
But he knows nothing about my business, if you are talking about 
what I know here. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of Mrs. 
Witte. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Mrs. Witte. Permanently or just today? 

Mr. Pool. Yes. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to call at this time Mr. Earl D. 
Holcombe. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EARL DONALD HOLCOMBE 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, would you state your full name for 
the record ? 

Mr. Holcombe. Earl D. Holcombe. 

Mr. Manuel. What does the "D" stand for in your name ? 

Mr. Holcombe. Donald. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Holcombe? 

Mr. Holcombb. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time I would like to inform you that you 
have a right to counsel and ask you whether at this time you desire 
a counsel ? 

Mr. Holcombe. No, sir ; not at this time. 

Mr. Manuel. Prior to your appearance, have you received the 
advice of counsel ? 

Mr. Holcombe. No, sir; not in a legal way. 



1 Actually according to Mr. Wagner and Mr. Stephens, Wagner was sworn in on July 
18, 1965. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3547 

Mr. Manuel. Are you aware of your rights under the Constitu- 
tion under the fifth amendment? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. Eiglit. 

Mr. Maxuel. Are you aware of the fact that at any time during 
your testimony this afternoon, if you so desire counsel, arrange- 
ments will be made to obtain counsel for you ? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. Right. 

Mr. Maxuel. Have you obtained a copy of the chairman's open- 
ing statement of October 1965 ? 

Mr. Holcombe. Right. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read that statement, Mr. Holcombe, and 
become familiar with it? 

Mr. Holcombe. I have. 

Mr. Pool. You are familiar with the contents? 

Mr. Holcombe. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Where do you currently reside ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I decline to answer that question because I hon- 
estly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of 
my rights under, guaranteed to me by amendments 4, 1, 5, 10, and 
14 of tlie Constitution of the United States of America and, further- 
more, I further decline to testify on the grounds that it might tend 
to jeopardize my job, my life, or my family. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you held membership in any Ku Klux Klan 
organizations? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been a member of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you appearing before the subcommittee this 
afternoon in response to a subpena served upon you at the U.S. 
marshal's office in Atlanta, Georgia, at 1 p.m. on the 7th day of 
February 1966 ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. I am just asking you whetlier you received a sub- 
pena to appear here today. 

Mr. Holcombe. I have a subpena ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you receive it on the date and place indicated? 

Mr. Holcombe. The date, I am not positive. 

Mr. Pool. You were served a subpena, though ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I have a subpena. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, an attachment was made part of your 
subpena, and in paragraph 1 of that attachment, you were called 
upon to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the 
Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, 
Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, and its aflSliated organization, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in 
your possession, custody or control, or available to you. 

At this time I would ask you to produce any and all documents 
which you have which are called for in paragraph 1 of your sub- 
pena. 

Mr. Holcombe. I decline to answer that. 



3548 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Would you like to have the advice of legal counsel 
before you make that answer ? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. No, sir. I decline to answer that question for the 
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me 
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 
4, 9, 10, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America 
and, furthermore, I decline on the grounds that it might jeopardize 
my job, my life, or my family's life, and my job. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, so we don't misunderstand, I didn't 
ask you a question. I asked you to produce documents and records 
called for in paragraph 1 of the subpena. 

If you have any explanation to make or any books or records to 
produce for the committee, I wish you would do so at this time. 

Mr. Holcombe. I don't have any. 

Mr. Pool. You don't have any. Is that what you said ? You are 
not pleading the fifth amendment? You are saying you don't have 
any. 

Mr, Holcombe. I just don't have any. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever had any in your possession ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it 
violates my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, 9, 10, 
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. Did you destroy any of these records after you received 
your subpena ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the same grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to present the documents called 
for in the subpena in accordance with Mr. Manuel's request. 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the ground previously 
stated, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair wants to advise you that there have been 
seven citations passed by the House of Representatives and turned 
over to the Federal attorney, based upon the grounds of a refusal 
to bring these documents and records to this committee in answer to 
a subpena, and I think they all pleaded the fifth amendment or were 
basing their defense on the fifth amendment. 

If you wish, the Chair will give you an opportunity to get counsel 
to advise you as to whether or not you have the right to deny the 
answer. 

Mr. Manuel. There being no response, I will proceed with the 
reading of paragraph 2 of Mr. Holcombe's subpena. 

Paragraph 2 calls upon you, Mr. Holcombe, to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., the Vigilantes, the Black Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, and the Black Shirts, in your possession, custody or control, or 
available to you. 

At this time I would like to ask you to produce all the material 
requested in paragraph 2 of your subpena. 

Mr. Pool. Before you answer that, the Chair wishes to state that 
in the previous question where you refused to answer, pleaded the 
fifth amendment, that the Chair does not recognize your answer as a 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3549 

valid reason for not producing them and ordered and directed you 
at that time to do so. 

Go ahead now. 

Mr. HoLcoMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair directs and orders you to produce the records 
and documents called for in the subpena in paragraph 2. 

Is that right, Mr. Manuel ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to produce those records. 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, would you pleas© describe for the 
committee 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. Your answer is rejected by the Chair. 

Mr. Holcombe, Sir? 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is rejected by the Chair. 

Go ahead. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, would you please describe for the 
committee the lapel pin Avhich you are wearing on your suit? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that a pin denoting membership in a Ku Klux 
Klan organization, specifically the United Klans of America? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever held membership in the United 
Klans of America ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, I would like to show you a story 
taken from the Atlanta Constitution of Friday, January 13, 1961, 
headed, "Arsenal Confiscated From Car — 2 Claim To Be Fulton 
Deputies." 

The story is datelined from Athens, Georgia, and it describes that 
certain people were arrested with regard to activities on the campus 
of the University of Georgia ; arrested on charges of carrying dead- 
ly weapons to a public gathering were the following persons: Lloyd 
Homer Mapp, William K. Stubbins, Charles Albert Scroggs, Dan 
Gus Peskopos, Sidney Thomas Puckett, all of Atlanta, and Earl 
Donald Holcombe, 31, of College Park, 

All but Puckett admitted to Klan membership, and Mapp and 
Stubbins claimed to be special Fulton deputies. 

Mr. Holcombe, I ask you to read this article and advise the com- 
mittee as to whether you are the Earl Donald Holcombe described 
in that article ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Earl Holcombe Exhibit No, 1" appears on 
p. 3550.) 

Mr. Manuel. Were you at the time this article was written a 
member of the U.S. Klans? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously 
stated. 



3550 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



Earl Holcombe Exhibit No. 1 

[Atlanta (Ga.) Constitution, January 13. 1961] 



Arsenal 
Confiscated 
From Car 

2 Qaiin To Be 
Fulton Deputies 

By BRUCE C.AI.PHIN 

ATHENS — aty police laid 
Thursday that eiKht Atlanta area 
Ku Klux Klansmen werr anvstoil 
In th« middle of Wedi»es<li».v 
night's bitter anti-inlegratipn riot 
at the University. 

In the car with the eijiht vn«n. 
police said they di.'^covered a^d 
confiscated a small arsenal o( 
flreams. 

Two of the men clainwd 
to t>e special deputy sheriffs of 
Fulton County, but Fulton records 
were locked up "Hiursday after- 
noon and unavailable for identifi- 
cation. 

PRESS HITS INSTIGATORS 

The Athens Banner- Herald in a 
front -page editorial Thursday aft- 
ernoon asserted that "The (lersons 
responsible for this disorder 
should be severely prosecute^. 

"Must people in Athens, the 
University and Georgia do not 
want integration, but tbay do not 
want their problems aattM by 



la^Mess rabble or federal inter- 
venjlioi^ either." 

ITie Mitorial alao was critic*) 
of the ;SUtto Patrol for not being 
'^inunediataly available." 



the group was traveling to a Klan 
meeting I in Washington, da . and 
just happened to cet mixed up" 
in the not after thipy stopped 

Pblice Chief E E Hardy and 
Police diarged five of the men Mayor Ralph Snow announced 
they identified as Klansmen and jointly that police had confiscated 
another Atlanta man with dls- mx pistols, all but one lo^ed. and 
orderly conduct and carrying a t^o ammunition bells with extra 
deadly weapon to a public gather- rounds. 

The weapons include two 22 
RELEASED ON BONDS caliber pistols, three .38a and a 

They weft released on bonds of ^ automatic. 

'^•**^*'- The gun.^ and buUets were 

Three others identified as Klans- found under the front seat and 

men were charged with disofOerly cu.shions of an automobile in 

conduct and releuied on bonds of ^^hich some of the men were 

$27 each. iravclinR. police reported 

Eight students, whose names 
were not listed by police, were re- 
lea.sed earlier on $27 bonds for 
disorderly conduct charges. 

"Hie lesser charges will be tried 
in Municipal Court Friday. 

Arrested on the more serious 
dw-ge were Lloyd Honter Mapp, 
'QSli William R. Stv|4ii>«. M: 
Charka Albert Scroggs. X Dan ^^ 

^'ii!;f^^ ^ ^f*'*/*2r^ several"'^i^i U^hidincT"^ 
[^lckett, both U, all of iVlanta. k »~ 

and Earl Donald Holcombe. 31. of 



The outsiders showed up while 
a rock-throwing, fire-setting, ob- 
scenity shouting i^ob of some 
!.«» students, townspeople and 
other* mtfted around Center 
Mj(*y Hall, where Charlayne 
Hunter was living before Gov 
Vandiver ordered her removed 
"for her own safety" late 
Wedne.sday night 
Dormitory windows were stoned. 



CoUece Park. Alt but Puckett ad- 
mitted to Klan nwmbershlp. and 



lice officer were wounded, and 
police and riotera tangM opeoiy. 
The melee atartad abortly after 



Mapp and StiiJ>tuns claimed to be the Tech-Georgia basketball game 

.special Fulton deputies, police Wednesday nlgbt mvd continued 

said. for more tban twoHipurs. 

The three men arrested on dis- Police used tear gas and fire 

orderLv conduct charge.s were ho-ses to help l>reak up the dts- 

listed by police as William Thomas turbance ■•" 
Brooks. 2S: William Franklin 

Griffeth. 34. and John Daniel Mil- The campus was quiet Thurs- 

ler, 35. all of College Park. day and dassea operated almost 

Police said Mapp asserted that nonrviUy. 



Mr. Manuel. Were you in Athens, Georgia, at the direction of 
any Klan official ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, have you ever held membership in 
an organization called the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you advise the committee the extent of your 
knowledge concerning the group known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee whether Colbert Ray- 
mond McGrifi' is also a member of the Black Shirts ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX EXAN IN THE U.S. 3551 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Cecil William Myers a member of the Black 
Shirts? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Joseph Howard Sims a member of the Black 
Shirts? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Marlin Price a member of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the groimds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Curtis King a member of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Are all the persons whom I have just mentioned, 
Mr. Holcombe, also members or have they held membership in the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever acted as a member of a degree team 
for the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the State of 
Ohio? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, has Mr. Ray McGriff acted as 
a member of the degree team ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, do you know Mr. Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever provided Mr. Gilliam with dyna- 
mite? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know of the existence of dynamite in the 
possession of members of the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, Mr. Daniel Wagner appeared be- 
fore the committee on last Friday and testified that he, in the com- 
pany of Verlin Gilliam, went to Georgia on the weekend of July 
11 and 12, 1965, and at their arrival in Georgia, near Stone Moun- 
tain, they met persons whom Mr. Wagner identified by photograph 
as you. Earl Holcombe, and Colbert Raymond McGriff (Bobby 
Stephens Exhibit No. 7) . 

Mr. Wagner further testified that he accompanied you to a destina- 
tion unknown to him, and there he saw you and Mr. Colbert McGriff 
load a quantity of dynamite in a milk can in the trunk of a car which 
was being operated by Mr. Gilliam. Is Mr. Wagner's testimony in 
that regard correct ? 



3552 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, was Mr. James Ven- 
able aware of the fact that Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Wagner traveled 
to Georgia and received an amount of dynamite from you and from 
Mr.McGriff? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Wagner further testified that while at a service 
station in an unknown area, unknown to him, he also saw persons 
whom he identified by photograph as Joseph Howard Sims and 
Cecil William Myers (Daniel Wagner Exhibit No. 3, p. 3438). Did 
Joseph Howard Sims and Cecil William Myers participate in the giv- 
ing of dynamite to Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. HoLCOMBE. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe, for what purpose did Mr. Gilliam and 
Mr. Wagner receive dynamite ? 

Mr. Holcombe. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask of this witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

The committee will stand adjourned until 11 o'clock tomorrow 
morning. 

_( Wliereupon, at 6 :30 p.m., Monday, February 14, 1966, the subcom- 
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 11 a.m., Tuesday, February 15, 
1966.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KIT KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1966 

United States House or Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.G. 

public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
as reconstituted for the February 15 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, 
at 11 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Wash- 
ington, D.C., Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, 
chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and Del Clawson, of 
California.) 

Subcommittee members present : Representatives Pool and Clawson. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, 
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

The Chair wishes to read this letter from the chairman of the com- 
mittee : 

Febkuaey 14, 1966. 
To: Mr. Francis J. McNamara 

Director, Committee on Un-American Activities 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
sisting of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner 
and Honorable Del Clawson as associate members, to conduct hearings in Wash- 
ington, D.C. on Tuesday, February 15, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution 
adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings 
concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the 
United States. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 14th day of February, 1966. 

/s/ Edwin E. Willis 
Edwin E. Wnxis 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities 

Call your next watness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this time 
Mr. Colbert Raymond McGriff. 

3553 



3554 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your rio;ht hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. MoGriff. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF COLBERT RAYMOND McGRIFF, JR. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, would you state your full name for the 
record, sir ? 

Mr. McGriff. Colbert Raymond McGriff, Jr. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff', are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. McGriff. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you so desire counsel at this time ? 

Mr. McGriff. No. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been advised as to your legal rights con- 
cerning your right to invoke privileges of the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. McGriff. I am aware of my rights ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. If at any time during the hearing you desire counsel, if 
you let the Chair know^, we will stop the proceedings and see about 
counsel. 

Pull the microphone up to you a little bit. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been provided with the chairman's open- 
ing statement, which he made in October of 1965, prior to the start of 
this committee's hearings into Ku Klux Klan activities ? 

Mr. McGriff. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Have you read the contents of that statement and are 
you familiar with the contents? 

Mr. McGriff. I have read it and I am familiar with the contents. 

Mr. Manuel. When and w-here were you born ? 

Mr. Pool. Speak up a little bit so you can be heard. 

Mr. McGriff. I respectfully decline to answer that question for 
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate 
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 
4, 9, 10, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America 
and, furthermore, I decline on the ground that I might jeopardize my 
life or my family's life and job. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, are you appearing before the committee 
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you on the 31st day 
of January 1966 at the McGriff Refrigeration and Electric Service at 
303 Dusy Street in Dothan, Alabama, by Deputy U.S. Marshal Julian 
M.Alford? 

Mr. McGriff. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, an attachment made part of your 
subpena calls upon you to produce in paragraph 1 of that subpena : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the Invisible 
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also 
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and 
its affiliated organization, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in your posses- 
sion, custody or control, or available to you. 

Mr. McGriff, I would like to ask you now to produce the documents 
called for in paragraph 1 in your subpena. 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3555 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to produce these documents in 
accordance with the terms of the subpena. 

Mr. McGriff. I will have to refuse to answer that on the pounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected by the committee. 

Do you refuse to produce the documents, or do you refuse to answer, 
which ? 

Mr. McGriff. I respectfully decline to answer that for the reason I 
honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of 
my rights guaranteed me by amendments 1, 4, 5, 9, 10, and 14 of the 
Constitution, which I believe that covers refusing to turn over the 
records. 

Mr. Pool. Under the subpena that was served upon you, in para- 
graph 1, you were directed to produce these documents, books, records, 
and so forth, and the Chair now directs you and orders you to produce 
these documents called for in paragraph 1 of the subpena, and your 
answer is not responsive to the direction the Chair has given you. 

Mr. McGriff. I \\i\\ still have to stand on my constitutional rights 
and refuse to turn them over. 

Mr. Pool. Your constitutional privilege is not applicable to the 
production of these records, and the Chair rejects that. 

Do you have any further statement to make on your refusal to pro- 
duce the records ? 

You understand that the direction the Chair gave you was to pro- 
duce the records, and it is not an answer we are asking of you. We are 
asking you to produce the records and that is what I am directing and 
ordering you to do, to produce the records. You are not responsive 
to the direction given you. It has nothing to do with answering a 
question. 

Mr. McGriff. I feel that under my constitutional rights I am not 
required to turn the records over as I stated under 

Mr. Pool. What constitutional provisions are you invoking? 

Mr. McGriff. I am invoking all of them — 1, 4, 5, 9, 10, and 14, any- 
thing applicable to the situation. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair rejects your answer and orders and directs you 
to produce the records called for in the subpena. 

Let the record show that the witness refused to produce the records. 

Go ahead, Mr. Manuel, and ask your next question. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, paragraph 2 of your subpena calls upon 
you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., the Vigilantes, the Black Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan, and the Blackshirts, in your possession, custody or control, or 
available to you. 

I now ask you to produce the documents called for in parargraph 2 
of your subpena. 

Mr. McGriff. I again will have to stand on my constitutional rights 
as I previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to produce these documents as re- 
quested by the interrogator and pursuant to the terms of the subpena 
in your respective capacity in which you were served in the subpena. 

Mr. McGriff. I will still stand on my constitutional rights as I 
previously stated. 



3556 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair rejects your answer. 

Go ahead, Mi'. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, have you ever held membership in the 
United Klans of America ? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have vou ever held membership in the National 
Knights of the Ku KluxKlan ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge concerning the organi- 
zation known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi- 
lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the 
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. 
McGriff. 

Colbert Raymond McGriff, also known as Ray McGriff, was born 
on March 30, 1944, near Dothan, Alabama. According to the testimony 
of Chief Leo Blackwell and the records of the Griffin, Georgia, Police 
Department, Mr. McGriff, along with John Max Mitchell, Allen Lee 
Bayne, Oliver Sanders, and Royce Carlyle, were arrested in Griffin, 
Georgia, on the charge of burning a cross in front of a cleaning estab- 
lishment, owned and operated by a Negro, on April 25, 1964. 

Of importance is the fact that police confiscated from two vehicles 
used by these men the following weapons: three Eagle .45 semi-auto- 
matic carbine rifles, one German-make rifle, two English .88 caliber 
pistols, two Smith and Wesson pistols, one Army Colt .45 caliber auto- 
matic pistol, one H & R .22 caliber pistol, one .357 caliber pistol, several 
hundred rounds of ammunition, two Handle Talkie radios, several 
robes, and two signs bearing the name Spaulding Co. No. 25, KKKK. 

Along with this material was a small black case belongin<r to Mr. 
McGriff giving him the authority to start a UKA, or United Klans of 
America Klavern in the city of Dothan, Alabama. 

Mr. McGriff and the other men arrested were reported at that time 
to be members of the United Klans of America. Shortly after this 
incident, Mr. McGriff, along with John Max Mitchell, were known to 
have met with a group known as the Vigilantes in the area of Barnes- 
ville, Georgia. 

This organization, the Vigilantes, was formed in the summer of 1964 
in Lamar County, Georeria. Its leadership was composed of former 
members of the LTnited Klans of America, Incorporated, Knights of 
the Ku KluxKlan. 

It is known that leadei*s of this organization have instructed their 
members to purchase guns and ammunition. 

During the summer of 1964, this group had an average attendance 
of 20 to 24 men at their meetings. 

During the fall of 1964, the membership declined ; and during the 
winter of 1964 and 1965 and the spring of 1965, the membership de- 
clined even further, and very few meetings were held. 

Early in the summer of 1965, this group obtained a charter in the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated, and planned to 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3557 

operate the Vigilantes as a small action group within the National 
Knights of the Kii Klux Klan. 

The leaders of this organization are, or were, John Max Mitchell 
and Colbert Kaymond McGriff, Jr. 

Mr. Pool. Does that complete your statement ? 

Mr. Manuel. No, sir. It is known that Cecil William Myers and 
Joseph Howard Sims have met with this group in the Barnesville area. 

Raymond McGrifl' is known to have served as a member of a degree 
team to initiate new members into the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan. 

He is also known to have traveled to areas in Alabama, including 
Centre, Alabama, as an organizer for the National Knights, along with 
Earl Holcombe. 

Ray McGriff was identified by Daniel Wagner as one of five men, 
including Earl Holcombe, Joseph Howard Sims, and Cecil Myers, 
whom Wagner and Gilliam met on a trip to Georgia in July 1965 and 
from whom they obtained a quantity of dynamite which Wagner and 
Gilliam brought back to Ohio. 

Mr. McGriff is also known as a leader of a group which calls itself 
the Black Knights or Black Shirts. Also in this group are Earl 
Holcombe, Marlin Price, Curtis King, Cecil Myers, and Joseph 
Howard Sims. 

These persons are also known to have been active in the area of 
Crawfordville, Georgia, during racial demonstrations in that city 
in September and October 1965. 

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. McGriff pos- 
sesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to 
this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting re- 
medial legislation. 

Mr. Pool. Mr, McGriff, you have heard the sworn statement of the 
committee's investigator. 

You are now permitted to reply to any portion of this statement, to 
confirm or deny the accuracy of the information, or to explain any 
part of this statement. 

In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the 
committee may deem relevant to the inquiry. 

Do you have anything to say ? 

Mr. McGriff. No. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. McGriff, I must inform you that, absent rebuttal 
and other facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this 
committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. 

Go ahead. 

You don't have anything further to say? 

Mr. McGriff. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, I show you a copy of a photograph 
which was turned over to the committee by Chief Leo Blackwell of 
the Griffin, Georgia, Police Department, and in this photograph is 
pictured the weapons which I described just a moment ago. 

I would like to show you a copy of this photograph and ask you to 
advise the committee where these weapons were obtained. 
(Photograph handed to witness.) 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 ^6 



3558 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

(Photograph previously marked "Leo Blackwell Exhibit No. 1." See 
committee report, The Present-Day Ku Khix Klan Movement^ j). 110.) 

Mr. Manuel. What portion of these weapons, Mr. McGriff, be- 
longed to you on April 25, 1964? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, did you, in July of 1965, provide a 
quantity of dynamite to Daniel Wagner and Verlin Gilliam? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. What contact did you or Mr. Earl Holcombe have 
with Mr. Gilliam prior to his trip to Georgia ? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, what is his age? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff was born March 30, 1944, Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Pool. That would make him 22 years old. 

Mr. Manuel. It would make him 22 years old the 30th of March o^ 
this year. 

Mr. Pool. Is he married? 

Mr. Manuel. Our records do not reflect whether he is married or 
not. 

Mr. Pool. Do you care to answer the question? Are you married? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, Mr. Wagner in his statement which he 
gave to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which was from memory, 
stated that he, in the comany of Verlin Gilliam, yourself, Earl Donald 
Holcombe, and Marlin Price, proceeded to a gas station, the identity 
of which and the location of which was unknown to him. 

I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, 
that that is an Amoco gas station located in the area of Bamesville, 
Georgia ? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that from this gas station you, in the company of Mr. Hol- 
combe, Mr. Price, Mr. Gilliam, and Mr. Wagner, proceeded to a farm 
owned by John Max Mitchell where the dynamite was transferred to 
Mr. Gilliam's car ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge, Mr. McGriff, of other 
dynamite or weapons located and stored on the farm of John Max 
Mitchell in the vicinity of Barnesville, Georgia ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, have you acted as an organizer for the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3559 

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and a>sk you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that you have acted as an organizer for that organization and 
helped organize a Klavem in the area of Centre, Alabama? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever acted as a member of a degree team 
which initiates national members into the National Knights of the Ku 
KluxKlan? 

Mr. McGriff. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that you have so acted as a member of the National Knights 
degree team in the State of Ohio during the summer of 1965 ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, were you active or did you travel to the 
area of Crawfordville, Georgia, during the months of September and 
October 1965, to take part in racial demonstrations in that city? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge as to whether you and 
other members of your group were ordered to go there by any Klan 
official ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as fact that you and Mr. Earl Hol- 
combe, Mr. Joseph Howard Sims, Mr. Cecil Myers, among others 
were present in the area of Crawfordville, Georgia, and did agitate 
in the racial demonstrations which were held in thati city ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, I hand you a copy of a story which was 
printed in the Baltimore Sun on October 20, 1965, headed "Negroes 
Seek Talks With 2 Georgians.'' 

In the last paragraphs of this particular article, there is quoted the 
following paragraph : 

Seven white men arrested in a racial incident here were free under bonds of 
$250 each, including two who were tried and acquitted in the slaying of a Negro 
educator in north Georgia last year. 

Sheriff M. B. Moore said the men, members of a Ku Klux Klan group known 
as "Black Shirts" were charged with pointing a gun at another. 

Kenneth Goolsby, Solicitor General, identified them as Cecil Myers and Joseph 
Howard Sims, both of Athens, who were acquitted in the slaying of Lemuel Penn, 
of Washington. The others were identified as John Mitchell, Albert Ray McGriff, 
Jr., Earl Holcombe, Bobby Gene Myers and Franklin D. Myers. 

The Sheriff said they were also charged with forcing George Turner, a Negro, 
off the highway Sunday and pointing shotguns and pistols at him. 

I show you this article, Mr. McGriff, and call your attention to the 
paragraphs which I have just read and ask you to advise the committee 
as to whether you are the "Albert Ray McGriff, Jr.," identified in that 
article ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated, 

(Document marked "Colbert McGriff Exhibit No. 1" and retained 
in committee files. ) 



3560 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. McGriff, have you engaged in the shipping of 
dynamite to other parts of the United States from the State of 
Georgia ? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess knowledge as to the source of dynamite 
which is in the possession of Mr. Mitchell and has been seen by IMr. 
Holcombe, Mr. Myers, Mr. Sims, Mr. Price, and yourself? 

Mr. McGriff. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of 
this witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this time 
Mr. Marlin Price. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the 
ti-uth, the whole tinith, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Price. Yeah. 

TESTIMONY OF IVTAEXIN PRICE 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, would you state your full name for the 
record, sir ? 

Mr. Price. Marlin Price. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Price. No. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time I would like to ask you whether you 
desire counsel ? 

Mr. Price. No. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you had the advice of counsel prior to your 
appearance before the committee? 

Mr. Price. [Shakes head.] 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to tell you any time you desire counsel 
you can communicate that to the committee and an effort will be made 
to secure counsel for you. 

Do you understand that, sir ? 

Mr. Price. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been advised as to your rights under the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States protecting 
you from possible self-incrimination? 

Mr. Price. Sure have. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you also been furnished a copy of the chair- 
man's opening statement made in October of 1965, prior to the start 
of hearings into Ku Klux Klan activities ? 

Mr. Price. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read that statement, Mr. Price, and are 
you familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Price. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question for the reason that I 
honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation 
of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, 9, 10, and 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3561 

the 14th of the Constitution of the United States of America and, 
furthermore, I decline on the ground that I might jeopardize my life 
or my family's life and job. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, how old is the witness ? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no knowledge as to Mr. 
Price's date and place of birth. 

Mr. Pool. Or whether he is married or not ? 

Mr. Manuel. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. How old are you ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Are you married ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, are you appearing before the committee 
this morning in response to a subpena which was served upon you on 
the 28th day of January 1966 by W. J. Andrews, U.S. marshal, at 
92 Brighton Street, Atlanta, Georgia ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you received a copy of this subpena ? In other 
words, you are appearing here today in response to this subpena. That 
was just my question. 

Mr. Price. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, an attachment was made part of this sub- 
pena which calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., the Vigilantes, the Black Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan and the Blackshirts, in your possession, custody or 
control, or available to you. 

I ask you now, sir, to produce the documents called for in that 
particular paragraph. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. I am not really asking you a question. 

I am asking you to produce certain documents. So in that con- 
text would you respond to the committee ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question for the reason that I 
lionestly feel my answer might tend to incrhninate me in violation 
of my rights guaranteed to me by the amendments 5, 1, 4, 9, 10, and 
the 14th of the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. He did not ask you a question. He asked you to produce 
a record. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. You are not responsive to the question. 

Do you, or do you not, decline to produce the records ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to produce these documents. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer 

*Mr. "Pool. Wait just a minute. It has been requested by this inter- 
rogator, pursuant to the terms of the subpena, and I order you to 



3562 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

produce these documents called for therein in the representative 
capacity stated in the subpena. 

Mr. Price. Do what? 

Mr. Pool. In the representative capacity stated in the subpena, I 
order and direct you to produce these documents. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. You decline to produce the documents on the grounds 
previously stated. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question for the reason that I 
honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in viola- 
tion of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, 9, 10, and 
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. Let the record show that the witness refused to produce 
the documents on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Do you have anything further to say to that ? 

Mr. Price. No. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you for the last time to produce the 
documents called for. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously state. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected by the committee. 

Proceed, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, have you ever been a member of the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been a member of an organization 
known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge with regard to the 
organization known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of 
privilege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present 
to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to 
Mr. Price. 

Mr. Price is known to have been initiated into membership of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at a meeting of Chapter 3 of 
the National Knights in Allen's trailer court in College Park, Georgia. 

Since that time, Mr. Price is known to have attended meetings of 
Chapter 3 of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at Allen's 
trailer court in College Park, Georgia, and also at the meeting place 
of this organization, w^hich was on the second floor of an office building 
in College Park, Georgia, the first floor of which is occupied by the 
Liberty Loan Company. 

Also in attendance at meetings of Chapter 3 with Mr. Price at vari- 
ous times were Earl Holcombe, Ray McGriff, and Curtis King. Mr. 
Price is known to have been in the group which provided dynamite 
to Verlin Gilliam and Daniel Wagner in July of 1965. 

Also in this group were Mr. Earl Holcombe, Ray McGriff, Cecil 
Myers, and Joseph Howard Sims. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3563 

Mr. Chairman, this information indicates that Mr. Price possesses 
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this in- 
quiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial leg- 
islation. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Price, you have heard the sworn statement of the 
committee's investigator. 

You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state- 
ment or confirm or challenge the accuracy of this information or to 
explain any part of that statement. In addition, you may, if you de- 
sire, offer any other matter the committee may deem relevant to this 
inquiry. 

Do you have any statement to make ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I must inform you that absent your rebuttal or other 
facts that may come to the attention of this committee, this committee 
will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, the committee mvestigation has determined 
that in July of 1965 Mr. Verlin Gilliam and Mr. Daniel Wagner 
traveled from the State of Ohio to the State of Georgia, at which place 
they met you, Mr. Earl Holcombe, and Mr. Ray McGriff in an area 
near Stone Mountain, Georgia, and then proceeded to the area of 
Barnesville, Georgia, where you stopped over for a short length of 
time at an Amoco service station located in Barnesville, Georgia. 

I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that 
this service station was an Amoco station in the area of Barnesville., 
Georgia ? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that this station is operated at various times, or has been 
operated at various times, by Mr. Earl Holcombe and Mr. Cecil Wil- 
liam Myers? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that from that service station you, in the company of Mr. 
Verlin Gilliam, Mr. Daniel Wagner, Mr. Earl Holcombe, Mr. Ray 
McGriff, traveled to a farm owned by John Max Mitchell, where a 
quantity of dynamite was placed in a milk can and loaded onto a car 
in which Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Wagner were traveling? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. For the information of the witness, the facts that he is 
stating here, he is stating as facts, and he is under oath himself, the 
investigator is, and you have your chance to deny or affirm these facts 
or whatever you want to say. 

What is your answer again? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on tlie grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Price, do you possess any knowledge of additional 
shipments of dynamite from the area of Barnesville, Georgia, to any 
other place in the country? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you inform the committee as to the source of 
dynamite which has been stored on the farm of John Max Mitchell 
in the area of Barnesville, Georgia? 



3564 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know John Max Mitchell to be a member of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Price. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of 
this particular witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. The staff would like to call at this time, Mr. Chair- 
man, Mr. John Max Mitchell. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I affirm. 

Mr. Pool. You affirm that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You so affirm ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN MAX MITCHELL 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, would you please state your full name 
for the record, sir? 

Mr. Mitchell. John Max Mitchell. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Mitchell ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time I would like to ask you whether you 
desire counsel? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you been advised by counsel prior to your ap- 
pearance before the committee? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you aware, Mr. Mitchell, of your rights under 
the fifth amendment of the Constitution that you have a right to refuse 
to answ^er a question on the grounds of possible self-incrimination? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you also aware, Mr. Mitchell, that at any time 
during your testimony, if you so desire counsel, you can communi- 
cate that to the committee and arrangements will be made for you to 
obtain counsel? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, have you been provided with a copy of 
Chairman Willis' opening statement of October 1965, prior to the 
public hearings into activities of Ku Klux Klan organizations? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read that document, Mr. Mitchell, and are 
you familiar with its contents? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, when and Avhere were you born, sir? 

Mr. Mitchell. I respectfully decline to answer that question for 
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me 
in violations of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 1, 4, 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3565 

5, 9, 10, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America 
and, furthermore, I decline on the ground that it miglit jeopardize my 
life, my family's life, and my job. 

Mr. Maxuel. Mr. Mitchell, have you ever held membership in the 
United Klans of America ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever held membership in the National 
Knights or the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. ^NIaxi'el. Have you ever been a member of an organization 
known as the Black Knights or the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, are you appearing before the committee 
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you on the 3d day 
of February 1966 by U.S. Deputy Marshal J. C. Burns at E.F.D., 
Barnesville, Georgia ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I am responding — I am here in response to a sub- 
pena served by that marshal. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, an attachment was made part of your 
subpena, paragraph 1 of which calls for you to produce: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the In- 
visible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., 
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, and its affiliated organization, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in 
your possession, custody or control, or available to you. 

I ask you now, sir, to produce the documents called for in paragraph 
1 of your subpena. 

Mr. Mitchell. I have no such documents. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever had any documents ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever destroyed— — 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute, Mr. Manuel. 

The subpena calls for you to produce these documents. Do you 
state now that you do not have these documents in your possession? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Did you have the documents at any time after the subpena 
was served on you ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You did not have them at any time after the subpena 
Avas served upon you ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. And you refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment as to whether or not you had them previously? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. Who did have the documents? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Who has the documents now? 



3566 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated, 

Mr. Pool. Have you liad these documents at any time since March 30, 
1965, when these hearings were first announced? 

Mr. Mitchell. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, paragraph 2 of your subpena calls upon 
you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., the Vigilantes, the Black Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan and the Blackshirts, in your possession, custody or control, or avail 
able to you. 

I ask you at this time, Mr. Mitchell, to produce the documents called 
for in paragraph 2 of your subpena. 

Mr. Mitchell. I have no such documents. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever had these documents at any time since 
March 30, 1965, at the time these hearings were first announced? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Next question, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, do you presently hold membership in an 
organization known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refuse to answer that question on the ground pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, do you ]30ssess any knowledge concern- 
ing the obtaining and storing and dissemination of dynamite by 
individuals known by you to be members of a Ku Klux Klan 
organization ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of 
privilege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present 
to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. 
Mitchell. 

Mr. Pool. This is a sworn statement by you; is that right? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir ; I am aware of that. 

John Max Mitchell, as a member of the United Klans of America, 
was arrested with Raymond McGriff and others on April 25, 1964, in 
Griffin, Georgia, for burning a cross on the business property of a 
Negro. 

During the course of this arrest, an arsenal of weapons was confis- 
cated by Griffin police. This arsenal of Aveapons has previously been 
described in the testimony of Chief of Police Leo Blackwell and also 
the testimony of Colbert JRaymond McGriff. 

After this arrest, Mitchell is known to have been a leader and an 
active member of a group known as the Vigilantes, w^hich met in the 
vicinity of Barnesville, Georgia, 

Sometime in 1965, members of this irroup received a charter from 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and Mitchell is known to 
have been a member of the National Knights at this time. 

Mitchell is also a member of a group known as the Black Shirts and 
he is known to have been active in the racial demonstrations which 
took place in the area of Crawfordville, Georgia, in September and 
October 1965. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3567 

Committee investigation has established that in July 1965 Mr. Verlin 
Gilliam and Mr. Daniel Wagner traveled to the State of Georgia and, 
after having met with Mr. Colbert Raymond McGriff, Mr. Marlin 
Price, and Mr. Earl Holcombe, they traveled to Barnesville, Georgia. 
And after a short stay at an Amoco service station in Barnesville, 
Georgia, they traveled to a farm owned by John Max Mitchell, where 
they obtained in a milk can a quantity of dynamite which was loaded 
into the trunk of the car operated by Mr. Gilliam. 

Mr. Chairman, this information indicates that Mr. Mitchell possesses 
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this 
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial 
legislation. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Mitchell, you have heard the sworn statement of the 
committee investigator. You now have an opportunity to challenge 
that statement or confirm or deny any part of that statement. In addi- 
tion, you may offer any other matter that the committee may deem 
relevant to this inquiry. 

Mr. Mitchell. I would like for permission to read that statement 
myself. 

Mr. Pool. You would like what ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Permission to read that statement. 

Mr. Pool. Do you want him to read it back to you ? 

Mr. Manuel. Have the reporter read it back. 

(The record was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead. 

Mr. Mitchell. Part of that statement up to July, I decline to answer 
on the grounds previously stated. 

After July, Mr. Gilliam and the rest, if they did so, they did so with- 
out my knowledge. 

Mr. Pool. They did what ? 

Mr. Mitchell. They did what the statement says without my knowl- 
edge, if they did so. There is not now, and never has been, any dyna- 
mite on my property, to my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge, Mr. Mitchell, if this 
dynamite, as you state, is not stored on your property, where dynamite 
is stored by members of the Barnesville Unit ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I have no knowledge of such. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever seen any dynamite or taken part in any 
dynamite demonstrations ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Mitchell, do you know where this dynamite was 
stored or who has possession of it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I have no knowledge of any dynamite. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have anything further to add to the information 
of this committee? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Did the men mentioned in the statement go to the farm 
on that date? 

Mr. Mitchell. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Pool. Were you at the farm on that date ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I don't know. 

Mr. Pool, You don't know ? Is that your answer, you do not know ? 

Mr. Mitchell, I am not positive. 



3568 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have cany further questions, Mr. Manuel? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Mitchell, have you ever met Mr. Verlin Gilliam ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know, as a matter of fact, that Mr. Gilliam 
and Mr. Wagner obtained a quantity of dynamite ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. You opened this up, Mr. Witness. Have you had any 
experience with dynamite whatsoever? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever purchased any dynamite ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever transported any dynamite across State 
lines ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. But your statement is that you did not have this dynamite 
in this statement stored on your farm ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, to your knowledge, was any dynamite 
ever transported to your farm from some other source and your ij.rm 
used then not as a storage area, but as a place from which dynamite 
was transported? 

Mr. Mitchell. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Pool. Did you ever deny anybody the use of your farm to store 
dynamite ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Never denied it or affirmed it. 

Mr. Pool. I didn't get your answer. 

Mr. Mitchell. I never denied or affirmed anybody use. 

Mr. Pool. Nobody asked you, then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, I would like to show you a copy of a 
photograpli of the arsenal of weapons wliich was taken by the Griffin, 
Georgia, Police Department, on April 25, 1964, from a group of 
members of the United Klans of America, including yourself, and in 
showing you this photograph, I ask you to advise the committee, to 
your knowledge, where these weapons came from. 

Mr. IMiTciiELL. I decline to answer on tlie grounds previously stated. 

(Photograph previously marked "T^o Blackwell Exhibit No. 1.") 

Mr. Manuel. Chief Blackwell of the Griffin, Georgia, Police De- 
partment, testified that after these weapons w^ere stored in the county 
courthouse for a period of time they were released, ordered released 
to the owners. 

I ask you, Mr. Mitchell, since that release, what has happened to 
these weapons ? 

Mr. MiTciiii.L. I decline to answer ou the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any knowledge of transfer of dynamite to 
these people? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3569 

Mr. Pool. Your statement, then, is that you do not know of any 
transfer of any dynamite ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 
• Mr. Pool. You are totally unfamiliar with the dynamite 
transaction ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The arms, you decline to answer on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Mitchell. Decline to answer. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any other questions, Mr. Manuel? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, would you advise the committee as to 
the purpose and organization of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manlt^ll. Would you identify for the committee the leadership 
of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Mitchell, I show you a copy of a story that ap- 
peared in the Baltimore Sun on October 20, 1965, headed "Negroes 
Seek Talks with 2 Georgians," and the last few paragraphs of this 
story are as follows: 

Seven white men arrested in a racial incident here were free under bonds of 
$250 each, including: two who were tried and acquitted in the slaying of a Negro 
educator in north Georgia last year. 

Sheriff M. B. Moore said the men, members of a Ku Klux Klan group known 
as "Black Shirts" were charged with pointing a gun at another. 

Kenneth Goolsby, Solicitor General, identified them as Cecil Myers and Joseph 
Howard Sims, both of Athens, who were acquitted in the slaying of Lemuel Penn, 
of Washington. The others were identified as John Mitchell, Albert Ray McGriff, 
Jr., Earl Holcombe, Bobby Gene Myers and Franklin D. Myers. 

The Sheriff said they were also charged with forcing George Turner, a Negro, 
off the highway Sunday and pointing shotguns and pistols at him. 

I show you a copy of this article, Mr. Mitchell, and I invite your 
inspection of the paragraphs which I have just read and ask you to 
advise the committee as to whether you are the John Mitchell referred 
to in that article. 

Mr. Mitchell. I decline to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document previously marked "Colbert McGriff Exhibit No. 1.") 

Mr. Manuel. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

The Chair wishes to announce that one of my dear colleagues from 
Texas, Albert Thomas, passed aw^ay this morning, and the members 
of the Texas delegation and other Congressmen are eulogizing Con- 
gressman Thomas on the floor, so we are going to adjourn at this time 
until 2 o'clock. 

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives 
Pool and Clawson.) 

(Wliereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, Tuesday, February 15, 1966, the 
subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1966 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, 
chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and 
Clawson.) 



3570 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Manuel, call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staft' would like to call at this time 
Mr. Curtis King. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. King. I affirm. 

Mr. Pool. You affirm that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You so 
affirm? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF CURTIS ALVIN KING 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, would you please state your full name for 
the record, please ? 

Mr. King. Curtis Alvin King. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. King. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time I would like to ask you whether you 
desire counsel during your testimony ? 

Mr. King. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, have you received the advice of counsel 
prior to your appearance before the committee ? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you aware that, under the Constitution of the 
United States and under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, you 
have the right to refuse to answ^er a question which you believe would 
incriminate you ? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, have you been provided a copy of Chair- 
man Willis' opening statement of October 1965, prior to the hearings 
of this committee into the activities of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you read that statement, Mr. King, and are 
you familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, would you please advise the committee 
when and where you were born ? 

Mr. King. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the 
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me 
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the amendments 5, 1, 
4, 9, 10, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America 
and, furthermore, I decline on the ground that it might jeopardize my 
life, my family, and my job. 

Mr. Pool. You say that it might jeopardize your life, your family, 
and your job. 

Have you been threatened, Mr. King? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I was just going to say that the Federal law provides pro- 
tection for subpenaed witnesses, and this applies for about 5 years, so 
you have no fear of reprisal being taken on. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, have you ever held membership in the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3571 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever held membership in an organization 
known as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you, as a member of the National Knights of 
tlie Ku Klux Klan, helped organize a Klavern or a unit of that orga- 
nization in the city of Centre, Alabama ^ 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, are you appearing before the committee 
today in response to a subpena served upon you on the 7th day of 
February 1966 at 2520 Jonesboro Eoad, Southeast, Aliens Trailer 
Park No. C-17, Atlanta, Georgia, by W. J. Andrews, United States 
marshal ? 

Mr. King. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, an attachment, which was made part of 
you subpena, orders and directs you to produce in paragraph 2: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of the business and the affairs of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., the Vigilantes, the Black Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan, and the Blackshirts, in your possession, custody or control, or 
available to you. 

I ask you now, sir, to produce the documents called for in that 
paragraph. 

Mr. King. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the 
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in 
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, 9, 
10, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Manuel. In order to avoid some misunderstanding on our parts 
here, I did not ask you a question. 

I asked you to produce certain documents outlined in your subpena. 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. You refuse to produce the documents on the grounds that 
you stated ? Is that right ? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this subpena do not legally justify your 
refusal and these reasons are rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce these documents requested by the 
interrogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena and in the repre- 
sentative capacity stated in the subpena. 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, have you, as a member of a Klan group, 
participated in any acts of racial disturbance or agitation in the area 
of Crawfordville, Georgia, in the months of September and October 
1965? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of 
privilege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to 
the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. 
King. 

Curtis King has held membership in the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan and has attended meetings of Chapter 3 of that orga- 
nization at least at Allen's trailer court in College Park, Georgia. 



3572 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. King is also known to have been a leader and an organizer of a 
group of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Avhich meets in 
the area of Centre, Alabama, and uses Post Office Box 434. 

Mr. King is known to have brought Centre members of the Centre, 
Alabama, Unit to the area of Crawfordville, Georgia, during racial 
demonstrations in that city during the months of September and 
October of 1965. 

This information indicates that Mr. King possesses additional infor- 
mation that is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would 
materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. King, you have heard the sworn statement of the 
committee investigator and you now have the opportunity to reply to 
any portion of that statement, confirm or challenge the accuracy of 
any portion of the statement, and to explain any part of the statement. 
In addition, you may, if you so desire, offer any other matter that the 
committee may deem pertinent to the inquiry. 

Do you have any further statement ? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. King, I must inform you that, absent your rebuttal 
or other facts that may come to our attention, this committee will rely 
upon the accuracy of its investigation. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. King, have you ever discussed operations of the 
group known as the Black Shirts with Mr. Earl Holcombe or Mr. Ray 
McGriff? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Joseph Howard Sims to be a member 
of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know^ Mr. Cecil William Myers to be a mem- 
ber of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Manuel. "Would you please identify for the committee the 
other leadership of the Klavern which is located in Centre, Alabama, 
of the National Knights? 

Mr. King. I refuse to answer on the grounds I previously stated, 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of 
Mr. King. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call at this time Mr. 
James R. Venable. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. . 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES R. VENABLE 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, would you please state your full name 
for the record, sir ? 

Mr. Venable. James R. Venable. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, what is your occupation ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3573 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Venable, I believe you are an attorney; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You do not care to have counsel ? 

Mr. Vex ABLE. No, I guess I have a fool for a client. I represent 
my own self. 

Mr. Pool. You do not care for a counsel ? 

Mr. Vexable. I am familiar with the rules. 

Mr. Pool. If at any time durincr the investigation you desire to 
confer with other counsel, just advise the Chair and we will be 
glad to provide the time for that. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, have you been provided with a copy of 
the chairman's opening statement ? 

Mr. Vexable. Yes, sir; I have. 

Mr. Maxuel. Have you read that statement and are you familiar 
with its contents? 

Mr. Vexable. I have read it ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Maxuel. Are you familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Vex\\ble. Yes, I am familiar vith it. 

Mr. Maxuel. Mr. Venable, where do you currently reside ? 

Mr. Venable. 900 V.F.W. Drive, Stone Mountain, Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Venable. DeKalb County, Georgia. 

Mr. Mi\NUEL. What was tlie date of your birth ? 

Mr. Vexable. January 15, 1905. 

Mr. Manuel. You have already stated that your occupation is that 
of attorney? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee, please, where you 
maintain law offices ? 

Mr. Vexable. Well, I got an office at Walter E. Brown Building, 
Atlanta 3. It is the corner of Hunter and Pryor Streets in Fulton 
County, Atlanta, Georgia. 

I also got one out in Tucker, Georgia, in DeKalb County. I believe 
that number classified for mailing is 4701 Lawrenceville Highway. 

Mr. Maxuel. Mr. Venable, would you please give the committee a 
brief resume of your educational background ? 

Mr. Vexable. I am a high school graduate and I finished Atlanta 
Law School, and I believe in 1930, finished old Tech High School at 
Marietta Street and Luckie Street in 1923. 

Mr. Manuel. AVlien did you receive your law degree, Mr. Venable? 

Mr. Vexable. I believe June 1930. 

Mr. jNIaxuel. Have you been a practicing attorney since that date? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, have you ever been a member of the 
Ku Klux Klan organization ? 

Mr. Venable. I have ; yes, sir, since 1924. 

Mr. Manuel. You first joined the Klan in 1924 ? 

Mr. Venable. 1924. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee what Klan organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Venable. Dr. Evans, at that time, was head of it. 



59-222 O — 67— pt. 5- 



3574 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that the Knights of the Ku Khix Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. I believe tliey called it the Ku Klux Klan or maybe 
the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. I believe it was 
chartered in Georgia in 1916. 

Mr. Mani'el. How long did you remain a member of that group? 

Mr. Venable. I have been a member of that group up imtil that 
charter was dissolved, or I think they abandoned it. 

Mr. Manuel. What was the date of that dissolution ? 

Mr. Venable. That year, I am not certain. 

Then I Avas a member of the Ku Klux Klan when the Imperial 
Wizard, Colescott, was there, and Dr. Evans, and I believe I was also 
a member when it was continued on, I believe the Associated Klans of 
Georgia of which Dr. Green was the Imperial Wizard or the Grand 
Dragon. 

I was not an active member. I was just what they call a card- 
carrying member. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold any office or position within the first 
Ku Klux Klan group that you belonged to which you stated you 
joined in 1924? 

Mr. Venable. No, I never held any office, just as a Klansman, no 
office, just as a member. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any office in the Association of Georgia 
Klans? 

Mr. Venable. Never had any office in that Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. How long were you a member of that particular 
Klan? 

Mr. Venable. I was a member of that Klan when Dr. Green died 
and I think it was succeeded either by Mr. Roper, I believe, and I be- 
lieve a fellow by the name of Klein was with it, too. I believe his 
nickname was Chuck Klein.^ 

Mr. Manuel. With what Klavem were you associated in the Asso- 
ciation of Georgia Klans? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I went down to Lithonia, Georgia, and I also 
used to meet at 91. They called it Old Klan 91. That was the old 
Nathan Forrest Klan that met on Central Avenue. 

Mr. Manuel. After your membership in the Association of Georgia 
Klans, did you hold membership in any other Klan organization? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I held membership in the Klan as I believe or- 
ganized and chartered Eldon Edwards' Klan. I believe it was chart- 
ered probably in 1957. 

Mr. Manuel. "Wliat w^as the name of that Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. I think they called that the U.S. Klans, Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated. I belive that was the name of it. 

Mr. Manuel. How long did you hold membership in that organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Venable. I held membership in that organization for several 
years while Mr. Edwards was Imperial Wizard of it. After his death 
a man by the name of Bill Davidson succeeded him. Then Davidson 
resigned. Then I believe Mr. Earl George headed it then. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold any official position or title in the U.S. 
Klan? 



1 Charles Klein. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3575 

Mr. Venable. Other than just as Imperial Klonsel, the attorney. 
I gave them advice and occasionally would represent them in legal 
matters. 

Mr. Mantjel. Did the U.S. Klans have an Imperial Board? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, they had an Imperial Board. 

Mr. Manuel. As the Imperial Klonsel, were you a member of the 
Imperial Board? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, I was a member of it, but I didn't participate in 
it, very seldom in the meetings, unless they requested my appearance 
on some legal matter, 

Mr. Manuel. After you left membership in the U.S. Klans, did you 
hold membership in any other Klan organization ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, the U.S. split up. Davidson resigned and Mr. 
George had it, and then I continued in that Klan, and that Klan 
finally, you might say, split up the second time. 

I continued my membership in that. I believe there was another 
Klan organization that was started up and I was a member of that. 
I held membership in the old U.S. and I held a membership in the 
new Klan. For short it was called the United Klan headed by Mr. 
Shelton. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee what period of time 
you held membership in the United Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't have records of the dates. I represented them 
in some legal matters occasionally and I was known as the Imperial 
Klonsel with no salary attached. 

Mr. Manuel. From your testimony, you did have the title of Im- 
perial Klonsel. 

Mr. Venable. Yes, just a short while. I didn't stay in that Klan 
too long, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. As memory serves you, Mr. Venable, could you give 
the committee the dates of your service as Imperial Klonsel ? 

Mr. Venable. I just couldn't give you the dates. I mean, I kept 
no record of it. It was not a job that paid a salary, you know, and I 
would say maybe 2 years, a year, something like that. 

Mr. Manuel. As the Imperial Klonsel, did you sit on the Imperial 
Board? 

Mr. Venable. Occasionally I sat ; you know, when they needed legal 
advice I would sit with them. 

Mr. Manuel. Why did you leave your position as Imperial Klonsel 
for United Klans of America ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, friction arose. I was friendly to Mr. George. 
I have always tried to be a friend to all of them. After becoming a 
member of that Board, they started what they called you might say, 
an association, where different group Klans, and I believe United was 
a member of that, and it started meeting among the various Klan lead- 
ership. 

Mr. Manuel. When did this association start, Mr. Venable ? 

Mr. Venable. The first time I ever attended one, I believe as I re- 
call, maybe 1957. I was not a delegate. I was invited there as a 
guest — maybe 1957 or 1958, somewhere in along there. 

Mr. Manuel. In 1957, the United Klans of America had not been 
established then. 



3576 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. It must have been the old U.S. They was a part of 
it. I believe the first time Mr. William Hugh Morris invited me I 
allowed them to meet with me. They met at the hotel Saturday night. 
I don't recall the date. 

Mr. Manuel. At the time of your first meeting with the National 
Association of Klan groups, what Klans were members of the associa- 
tion? 

Mr. Venable. Well, at that time I believe a portion maybe of Flor- 
ida Klans — I didn't know the names. I was not a member, you know, 
of that association at that time, and maybe some of the Georgia Klans 
and maybe some of the South Carolina Klans, and maybe some of the, 
as I recall, maybe Arkansas. 

Mr. Manuel. Does this Association of Klans exist today ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, a portion of it exists today ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you hold any title or position in that association ? 

Mr. Venable. I am what we call a temporary chairman. I am only 
elected temporarily for a year. 

Mr. ML\NUEL. How long have you held that position ? 

Mr. Venable. — and I have no vote as a chairman. 

Mr. Manuel. How long have you held that office, Mr. Venable? 

Mr. Venable. I mean as temporary chairman, I am only elected for 
a year — probably about 3 years. The first time that I remember at- 
tending it they alternated, you know. They would have the meetings 
in various States, and the people who represented that State w^ould 
act as chairman, some Klansman. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, which Klan groups are members 
of the National Association as of the current time? 

Mr. Venable. I never have had a record. I mean, they had a secre- 
tary who kept the record. They would call the roll, you know, and he 
w^ould call them out. I believe to my knowledge I believe Florida — 
I don't know the names. 

Mr. Manuel. United Florida Klans [United Florida Ku Klux 
Klan]. 

Mr. Venable. I don't know the names of it, and I believe South 
Carolina Klans. 

Mr. Manltel. The Association of South Carolina Klans. 

Mr. Venable. I believe that is what they call it, and I believe at one 
time some portion of Arkansas was a member of it, and maybe some 
portion of Alabama. 

You see, the old U.S., thev had the United, and the old U.S. over 
there and maybe some other Klan groups. 

Mr. Manuel. "Wliat other Klan groups meet with the National 
Association ? 

Mr. Venable. There is what they call Associated Klan of Georgia,^ 
you know, and I think it is a small Klan. I believe Charlie Maddox 
was a representative of that, but they would not attend every time. 
Thev would send a delegate. 

Mr. Manuel. Does the Dixie [Klans, Inc.] , Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan meet with the delegation? 

Mr. Venable. Severnl times it met, at one time, when it used to 
rotate over the various States it was a member of it. 



1 Association of Georgia Klans. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3577 

Mr. Manuel. Do any Klan groups from the State of Louisiana meet 
with the association? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. I don't know the names. I think there are 
two groups that meet down there with them, you know. In fact, I don't 
know the names of any of them that meet. 

Mr. Maxuel. Would they be portions or factions of the Original 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Vexable. I don't know how they list their names there, you 
know. I don't know the names of the Klan organizations in Loui- 
siana. In fact, I didn't know there were that many until I attended 
some of these hearings. I found out there were more groups than I 
found. 

Mr. Manuel. Does the United Klans of America, headed by Robert 
Shelton, meet with the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. When it rotated a long time ago I believe one or two 
of their members maybe met in, I believe, the old Dinkier Plaza Hotel. 
They call it the old Ansley Hotel and maybe some other places. 

Mr. Manuel. ^\nien, to your knowledge, did the United Klans meet 
with the National Association? 

Mr. Venable. Several years, to my knowledge, as a delegate. I be- 
lieve maybe myself or some other member invited them on several 
occasions to meet at Tucker in the last 2 or 3 years, but none of them 
has ever come as a delegate and participated and actually meet. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any loiowledge as to why United Klans 
is not represented in the National Association? 

Mr. Venable. I can only state from what I heard in the meetings, 
you know\ It was divulged by some of the delegates that they would 
not cooperate wdth the other Klans. They would go into a State in a 
vicinity and wouldn't even invite those people to participate in it. 

Mr. Manuel. Let me understand your testimony correctly. I get 
the idea that you are saying — and correct me if I am wrong — that it 
was discussed in the National Association meetings that United Klans 
of America was using unethical recruiting methods. 

Mr. Venable. That is right ; I had heard some of that rumors, about 
unethical and trying to cut into the other Klan groups and try to steal 
membership and wouldn't try to cooperate w^ith the other Klan groups 
at public rallies. 

I have heard that statement made by the South Carolina group and I 
believe maj^be the Associated group down in Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. Is it considered unethical within Klan groups them- 
selves for another Klan to go into a territory where one Klan group is 
established? 

Mr. Venable. As I recall it^ — I could be wrong, you know — but as 
I recall it, I believe they had a resolution, you know, as a result those 
minutes were kept at this meeting and read at the next meeting for 
approval and then destroyed. 

I believe there was a resolution, as I recall it, to the effect if anything 
occurred or if these groups would be unethical or if a man was banished 
from a Klan, you know, that report, if he is banished in Louisiana, 
would naturally be sent out by the secretary of all of the other groups 
that he was banished and why he was banished, you know, he or them. 

Mr. Manuel. Klan groups do keep such records 



3578 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. Well, I mean, that information, if say, Louisiana 
banished me, if I was a member there, it was the duty — if they was a 
member of the National Association, to send that to me if I was chair- 
man. Then I was supposed to divulge it out in the next National meet- 
ing, read his or her, or their name out, or the secretary, rather, would. 

Mr. Manuel. In other w^ords, one order of business of the National 
Association when it is necessary is to read the reports of other Klans 
as to which members of those Klans were banished ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; but as I recall, that was a resolution but I 
never had heard, never read any time I presided- — I didn't preside 
at all of the meetings, you see, although I was temporary chairman, 
I know members a lot of times in Tucker, Georgia, we would feed the 
delegates there, and I w^ould be in there helping to serve them and 
somebody else would act in my place. 

Mr. Pool. If he was banished per se, the rest of them wouldn't 
take him in. Is that the idea ? 

Mr. Venable. That was the policy, but I never heard of any action 
being taken against any group. 

Mr. Pool. They just accepted the other group's decision. 

Mr. Venable. Yes ; but I never heard any complaint filed about any- 
body being banished. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, as temporary chairman of the National 
Association, could you advise the committee whether the United Klans 
of America is eligible for membership in the National Association? 

Mr. Venable. In my hearing, attending what meetings, you know, 
that I presided over in the last 2 or 3 years, none of the delegates 
would ever yield. I had no vote, as I told you. 

Mr. Manuel. How many delegates comprise a meeting at which 
this would have been discussed ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, regardless, if a group was a member of the 
National Klan Association, they were entitled to three delegates. If 
one delegate appeared, he could vote for the other two if they was 
absent. If two come, they could vote three votes. 

Mr. Pool. Each Klan had the same number of votes. 

Mr. Venable. Regardless of how large or how small. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, to your knowledge, have the delegates 
to the National Association ever discussed the activities of the United 
Klans of America ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, as I said, they discussed problems I told you 
about. 

Mr. Manuel. I mean other than recruiting. Have there been any 
other 

Mr. Venable. They wouldn't accept them, and I don't think 
Shelton would ever accept us. He never would meet us on mutual 
grounds. 

I was appointed as a representative from a National Association to 
meet with him and I had Miss Norse to call him. and he promised to 
come to Atlanta where maybe we could iron out the problems, and he 
never would meet. 

Mr. Pool. Was your group a larger membership combined than 
his group ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir ; I would not say they was. I don't know the 
membership of any group, but just from newspaper accounts and hear- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3579 

say evidence I would say they was not. They may have been larger 
m certam percentage or States than they had. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, was any alleged act of violence which 
could have been attributed to the United Klans of America ever dis- 
cussed at your meetings of the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, they discussed this matter down in Alabama, 
you know. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you be more specific ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I mean tliis alleged killing down there. 

Mr. Manuel. Mrs. Viola Liuzzo ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, the Selma march. I have heard some of the 
members discviss that, and some members discussed other problems 
where they would have maybe a fight or something, like the freedom 
riders occasion over there. 

Mr. Pool. Which Klan was involved in that killing? 

Mr. Venable. I believe from accounts of newspapers and from evi- 
dence obtained through hearsay evidence, I believe, Mr. Chairman, 
United. 

Mr. Manuiil. Was the slaying or murder of Lieutenant Colonel 
Lemuel Penn ever discussed ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; that was discussed. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee the gist or briefly what 
was discussed ? 

Mr. Venable. It was discussed about it and, of course, not too much 
there because we did not want to point the finger of any suspicion or 
guilt on anybody. We did discuss that and other little fights and 
things there, but we had no jurisdiction over tliem. 

Mr. Pool. Which Klan was involved in w^hat you heard ? 

Mr. Venable. From what accounts I learned, I believe it was the 
United Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, because of these alleged acts, or the acts which 
were allegedly involving members of the United Klans of America, 
because of this, Mr. Venable, did the delegates to the National Asso- 
ciation decide that United Klans was not a proper Klan organization 
to have in the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. That was my opinion, I gathered.^ from the discus- 
sion that they would not accept them as a member. They would have 
provided these things if their delegates had come forth and presented 
their credentials and in good faith I am sure they would have ac- 
cepted them. 

Mr. Pool. For further enlightenment on this problem and on the 
subject you have under discussion, was it your belief that the United 
Klans was involved in these two cases, or was it the general feeling 
of your group ? 

Mr. Venable. It was the general feeling and that brought the con- 
clusion that brought the heat on all of us. 

Mr. Manltel. Mr. Venable, did any one member organization of 
the National Association, or did the National Association itself, con- 
duct an investigation into the activities of the United Klans of Amer- 
ica in regard to these two acts of violence which you liave described? 

Mr. Venable. None to my knowledge, because we liad no jurisdic- 
tion. If they had been a member of the association, we would have, 
you know. We would have appointed a committee. 



3580 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Since it was the United KLans involved, you did not have 
access to the information. 

Mr. Venable. They was not a member, and therefore we had no 
jurisdiction over their conduct or their officers. 

Mr. Pool. It was pretty hard for you to investigate the United 
Klans. Is that what you are saying ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, did you, to your certain knowledge, 
know that the individuals arrested in both of these murder charges, 
namely, the Penn murder and the Liuzzo murder, did you know to 
your certain knowledge that the members arrested were members of 
the United Klans ? 

Mr. Venable. I could not say under oath. I learned it from the 
news account like all of us, but I don't like to say, you know, that I 
go on record saying, but from what I could learn in talking to people 
and through the news account they was members of the United, but 1 
couldn't swear it because I didn't see any of them people initiated as 
being Klansmen. 

Mr. Manuel. At any time, did any member of the United Klans 
communicate with the National Association and say the persons ar- 
rested were not members of the United Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. They could have to 
some of the other Klans. 

Mr. Pool. Did you have an investigation and determine it was not 
members of your groups that were involved in that ? 

Mr. Venable. That is right; we discussed that at great length. 

Mr. Pool. And they did determine it was members of the United 
Klans and not your group ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. We will come back to this subject in just a little while 
in more detail. 

First, in regard to other Klan organizations, have you ever been a 
member of other organizations, other than what you have just de- 
scribed ? I am referring to Klan organizations. 

Mr. Venable. I w^as a short time a short member of the Federated 
Klan when it was in existence when it met in Atlanta, you might say, 
as just an honorary, not a paid member. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you hold any office in the Federated Klan? 

Mr. Venable. No. 

Mr. Manltel. Was Mr. William Hugh Morris head of that Klan 
at that time ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. I met him in Atlanta, in I believe 1957, when I 
let them use the pasture at Stone Mountain, Georgia, and that was 
the first time I was invited to attend an association meeting — along 
in 1957 or 1958. 

Mr. Manuel. Have vou lield membership in the National Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Venable. National Knights of the the Ku Klux Klan, Incor- 
porated, do you mean ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Being you raise that point, is there a difference be- 
tween the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3581 

Mr. Venable. The National Kii Kliix Klan Association — that is one 
I am temporary chairman of. The National Knigrhts of the Kn Klux 
Klan, Incorporated, I am a member. I would guess you would 
classify me a member, a card-carrying member. 

Mr. Pool. It is an association. 

Mr. Vexable. Yes, all of the different groups meet there. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you head an organization of the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan which is a member of the National Association? 

Mr. Venable. No, we have talked about it, one, because it is pretty 
hard to get tliese charters in other States domesticated, you know, 
recorded. If it is chartered in Georgia, and if you go into the North, 
East, and West, sometimes they Avon't register your charter there. 

Do you understand what lam talking about? 

Mr. Manuel. Not exactly. My question relates to this : Have you 
ever held t'lie^office of Imperial Wizard in the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ? 

Mr. Venable. National Knights, yes — National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, Incorporated. 

Mr. Pool. Is that organization a member of the National Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan Association ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. The two I am a member of, but we don't carry 
cards there. 

Mr. Pool. You are temporary chairman of the association. 

Mr. Venable. Yes, temporary chairman. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Venable, were you, in fact, one of the 
original incorporators of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
Incorporated ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Who were the other 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Hugh Morris and I believe Mr. Hill and Mr. 
Butterworth. You see, you have to have three bona fide people living 
in a State to charter a corporation. You can have a thousand, but you 
have to have a minimum of three. You don't necessarily incorporate 
meaning they own any part of it. 

Mr. Pool. This is what State you are talking about ? 

Mr. Venable. Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. I would like to show you a copy, Mr. Venable, of 
the charter filed with the secretary of state for the State of Georgia, 
for the superior court of Fulton County 

Mr. Venable. Fulton County — DeKalb County. 

Mr. Manuel. — DeKalb, which lists the original incorporators as 
William Hugh Morris of Box 415, Buchanan, Georgia; H. G. Hill of 
461 Moreland Avenue, Fulton County, Atlanta, Georgia ; Wally But- 
terworth, V.F.W. Drive, Stone Mountain, DeKalb County, Georgia; 
and James R. Venable, 900 V.F.W. Drive, Stone Mountain. And I 
show you this, Mr. Venable, and ask you if that is a true copy, to the 
best of your recollection, of the charter? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; it appears to be. 

(Document marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 1." See commit- 
tee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Move7nent, pp. 325-328.) 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, at the time of this incorporation, which 
was the 1st day of November 1963, did Mr. Morris, Mr. Hill, Mr. 
Butterworth hold official positions within the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan? 



3582 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. National Knights, do you mean the association? 

Mr. Manuel. No, the National Knights. 

Mr. Venable. None of us held anything official until it was incorpo- 
rated and the first meeting was held. 

Mr. Manuel. After the first meeting did the original incorporators 
as listed in this document become officers of the Klan organization ? 

Mr. Venable. I become one and I believe Mr. Morris become one, 
and Mr. Hill become an officer. 

Mr. Manuel. Which office did Mr. Morris hold ? 

Mr. Venable. Vice president, Klaliff . 

Mr. Manuel. Imperial Klaliff? 

Mr. Venable. That is right, that was known as vice president, and 
myself as president. 

Mr. Manuel. Which office did Mr. Hill hold ? 

Mr. Venable. He was acting as secretary and chaplain, temporarily, 
you know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Butterworth hold any office? 

Mr. Venable. He never did hold any office. 

Mr. Pool. What office did you hold ? 

Mr. Venable. President. 

Mr. Pool. Imperial Wizard ? 

Mr. Venable. Imperial Wizard ; that is right. It was a nonprofit, 
fraternal, secret organization. 

Mr. Manuel. For the record, did Mr. Butterworth hold any office 
in the organization ? 

Mr. Venable. He never did hold any. He attended the first meet- 
ing, may have gone to some Klan meetings after it was chartered. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he a member of the organization ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes ; he was a member of it. 

Mr. Manuel, Of the National Knights ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. Butterworth prior to his member- 
ship in the National Knights to be a member of the United Klans? 

Mr. Venable. Yes ; he told me he was. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever meet with Mr. Butterworth at meet- 
ings of the United Klans of America when you were also a member ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; I met him, I believe some place in Georgia, I 
believe at some tourist court there when there w^as some effort made 
to try to merge, you know, to unite the Klans. That is the first 
occasion I met him. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever know Mr. Butterworth to hold the 
position of publicity director for the United Klans of America? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I understood he published some paper or helped 
publish some paper called the Fiery Cross. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain laiowledge was Mr. Butterworth ever 
a m.ember of the Imperial Board of the United Klans of America ? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know because I didn't attend that 
board because I was not connected with that Klan at that time. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, getting back to the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., I should like to show you a copy of the 
certified statement for annual registration of the corporation of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., listing its president 
as James R. Venable and its general manager as Wally Butterworth, 
giving the principal office at P.O. Box 657, in Tucker, Georgia. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3583 

I would like to show you this, Mr. Venable, and ask if Mr. Butter- 
worth ever served in the capacity described on that certificate as 
general manager of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. He never did serve. He may have aided the Klan, 
certainly. 

(Document marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 2" follows:) 



Form r.38 >| 



James Venable Exhibit No. 2 

state of georgia ^ 

-^,t^ DEL 1 e ,363 

CERTIFIED STATEMENT FOR ANNUAL REGISTRATION OF A CORPORATION 

NAME OF CORPORATION: . National _Krii£;ht.s__o_f Th^e_Ku.Klu!C Klan_Llnc. 

PRESIDENT: ^3^^:^ A'J'f^able _ ...GENERAL MANAGER Jfa^y. But terwqrth _ _ 

Pr'iNCIPAL OFFICE: (Strpct »nJ No.) P'Ot '<ox 657 _ CITY .. Tucker STATE 0^. 

mfSciPAL OFFICE IN GA.: (St. nnd No.) CITY tucker, Georgia _ 

AUTHORIZED AGENT IN GA. (If foroiKn): _ _ _ _ ' 

AGENT'S ADDRESS (If foroiRn): . ... - CITY .; .. -"j _J 

NATURE OF BUSINESS ,, Fraternal Secret Order. __. _ _ _ ', 

WHFN INCORPORATED (Date) - . BEGAN BUSINESS IN GA. (Date) _ - 

WHERE INCORPORATED (CITY) D«^cati>r COUNTY .. De%lb.. STATE ^a 

BY WHAT AUTHORITY .Judsg. ^3ui).erj.oi' t^aurt De'^alb Cgimty. capital stock ^one 

TO THE HONORABLE BEN W. FORTSON. .11!.. Allnntn, Ga. 

I hereby certify that the above statement furnishcii the Secretary of State of the State of Georgia for record, as required by law, is correct. 

\^, /, />' /V ^^"^^ December J^ jg63 

Signed byZ.'l'J^. I V ''A ^ Ui/Li ^ TITLE_ . .P^.^sident 

(OVtR) 

Mr. Pool. Did you have such an office as general manager ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, he would answer the phone. 

Mr. Pool. Did you provide for a general manager ? 

Mr. Venable. No, we had no money to pay any general manager. 
He would answer the phone, like we have had lots of people 

Mr. Pool. The general manager was not an official ? 

Mr. Venable. No; not an official. I don't know of any title to give 
a man such as a general manager of a Klan. He might be the Im- 
perial Wizard or secretary or something like that. 

Mr. Pool. Is that charter application false, then ? 

Mr. Venable. I would not say it is true or correct, because I be- 
lieve this title here was typed in there maybe at Tucker, Georgia. It 
may have been typed in at Atlanta. 

Mr. Pool. Who signed the application 'I 

Mr. Venable, This seems to be my signature over here on the 
left-hand side. 

Mr. Pool. When you signed it, did it have the general manager 
provision in there ? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't say, it did or it didn't, because the 
post office box then was 657. It has been changed to 107. They 
moved the post office there. 

Mr. Pool. In view of your testimony, you filed an incorrect ap- 
plication there ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Venable. I would not say that I did or didn't, you know. I 
don't know who typed this in. It could have been typed in by him; 
it could have been typed in by the boy in the office. I wouldn't say it 
was or wasn't. 

Mr. Pool. In other words, you signed it before it was on there? 



3584 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. That I don't recall, just like this charter that went 
to North Carolina. I guess Mr. McBrayer may have filled out that 
registration. 

Mr. Pool. I am not trying to twist you up because a general manager 
would not be an official, and it is not too important, and I was just 
trying to find out if you knew what was in the application when it 
was filed. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Butterworth was a member of the National 
Knights? 

Mr. Venable. For a short while. He never did participate much 
in the Klan. 

Mr, Manuel. Were you ever associated in another organization 
known as the Defensive Legion of Registered Americans, Inc., with 
Mr. Butterworth? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; we first chartered that corporation. He ap- 
proached me. He wanted to make some tapes and phonograph 
records, and I chartered that corporation. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever use the tapes and phonograph records 
that were made ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. How were they used, Mr. Venable ? 

Mr. Venable. We would give some away and we would send some 
to people, people would purchase the phonograph records, you know, 
throughout the United States, and in different States and order them. 

Mr. Manuel. Was this activity done on behalf of any Klan group? 

Mr. Venable. It wasn't done on any behalf. It was a project that 
he and I started. We hoped to try to do some good on different 
subjects. He was a former narrator or broadcaster for, I believe, 
NBC or one of the broadcasting companies. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Butterworth subsequently go on the air in 
Atlanta, Georgia? 

Mr. Venable. He went on the air maybe three or four times or some- 
thing as a Defensive Legion, several. I had a contract I think for a 
week at a time or a few days or 4 days a week or 3 days a week. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that station 

Mr. Venable. WJUN, one on Ponce de Leon, Decatur, Georgia. I 
think they called it "Big Gun." 

Mr. Manuel. Did that station terminate Mr. Butterworth's broad- 
cast on that station? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. For what reason, Mr. Venable, to your knowledge did 
the station 

Mr. Venable. I never did get any reason out of it. They claimed 
that his language was too strong, you know, criticizing people severely. 
That was my understanding, and I think some of the people who 
patronized them 

Mr. Pool. What were some of the statements he made? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. He made his own tapes, you know. 

Mr. Pool. You don't recall any of the statements? 

Mr. Venable. No ; but that is what I was told. 

Mr. Pool. You didn't hear the statements? 

Mr. Venable. Sometimes I did. I didn't hear all of them. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3585 

Mr. Pool. You don't recall any of the statements? 

Mr. Venable. I don't recall any of them, but that was the com- 
plaint they told me. I signed the contract with them as presideni . 

Mr. Manuel. At the time that this radio station 

Mr. Venable. In fact, I put up the money, you know, for them. 

Mr. Manuel. At the time that this radio station took this action, 
Mr. Venable, was Mr. Butterworth associated with you not only in the 
Defensive Legion of Eegistered Americans, Inc., but also in the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know what period there was. I mean this 
Defensive Legion was incorporated, I believe, maybe in 1962 or some 
period along there. 

Mr. Manuel. I am talking specifically about the time of his radio 
broadcasts now. 

Mr. Venable. I wouldn't say it was or wasn't, you know. Dates — 
I have no way of being certain about them. He was connected with 
the Klan after it was chartered, you know, and I believe he may have 
attended some of the National meetings, you know, before this Klan 
was chartered while that Defensive Legion was in existence. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you ever advised by the broadcasting station 
that they were going to terminate Mr. Butterworth's program because 
of his alleged Klan connection? 

Mr. Venable. No, I didn't hear that. I mean, the man never did 
give me anything definite, the gentleman I talked to, but I under- 
stood from my conversation with him — they didn't mention anything 
about the Klan. It was some of the peoj^le, the advertisers, you know, 
and I believe he criticized Senator — I believe Fulbright, from some 
statement he made in a university in California in some college on 
some subject. Maybe that was one of the reasons. I heard certain 
rumors. I don't know it to be a fact. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been associated in an association called 
the Christian Voters and Buyers League? 

Mr. Venable. That was a trade name owned by the Defensive 
Legion that put phonograph records and tapes to try to get people to 
join, furnish them literature and records and tapes, and try to advo- 
cate, you know, for them to register and vote. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, did the Christian Voters 
and Buyers League, which you stated was a trade name under the 
Defensive Legion of Registered Americans, advocate against busi- 
nesses that were Jewish-owned? 

Mr. Venable, They published a book. Perhaps I may have it here 
or I may have it there, or you may have one in those records, or I would 
be glad to send the committee one of them, exposing the kosher food 
racket. 

Mr. Pool. Exposure of what ? 

Mr. Venable. Kosher food, showing that the Jewish race dominated 
practically most products, all of the detergents, like the Kraft Cheese 
Company. They would put certain ingredients, the Jewish race, in their 
products, ingredients in it, and like Heinz pork and beans and taking 
out the pork and say pork and beans. These ingredients was a part 
to be used in these foods there in which a consumer would have to buy 
and which the people were taxed to support the Jewish religion. 



3586 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How 
were they taxed? 

Mr. Venable. You get you a can of Heinz pork and beans, most all 
of the detergents and you will see a little "k" in it meaning "kosher." 
It has no hog fat in pork and beans. If I was a purchaser or you was 
a purchaser, that company would have to purchase these products and 
put them in these beans or whatever they was manufacturing, and 
in turn it would increase the payouts. In other words, that company 
would have to pay out and the consumer would have to pay it. It was 
using indirectly to support a religious faith which we contend was 
contrary to the Constitution. I shouldn't be taxed, and neither should 
you. 

Mr. Pool. Did it have the word "kosher" on there? 

Mr. Venable. No, it had a little "k" on there. 

Mr. Pool. Could you buy the pork and beans without the "k" ? 

Mr. Venable. Maybe from some companies, but we was trying to 
expose that factor. 

Mr. Pool. What is wrong with a company putting a "k" on there for 
"kosher"? 

Mr. Venable. I should not be held liable and taxed to support your 
religion or my religion. 

Mr. Pool. Why do you have to buy them ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't have to, but if I want to eat Heinz pork and 
beans 

Mr. Pool. I don't know what they are bellyaching about. 

Mr. Venable. You didn't have to buy them, but nearly all or many 
of the products, you didn't have to buy them but it was no fat in them. 
They would use the vessels, they have to sterilize the vessels of any pork 
in there, they would have to be destroyed. Kosher meat — it would 
start off, say, in Chicago. 

Mr. Clawson. Are you making the observation just because mem- 
bers of tlie Jewish faith 

Mr. Venable. No, I am not- 



Mr. Clawson. Let me ask the question first — because members of 
the Jewish faith might be in business and you deal with them, you are 
supporting the faith ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't feel that nobody ought to be tax supporting 
any religious faith. 

Mr. Clawson. That w^as not my question. Just because they are 
members of a particular religion and in a particular business, does 
that automatically mean you are supporting their faith ? 

Mr. Venable. No, you are free to patronize anybody, but I would 
say nearly all of the products had a little "k" on there, showing it was 
kosher. 

Mr. Clawson. That does not respond to my question, 

Mr. Venable. I will try to get this committee one of those little 
books so you can understand it. Even the tinfoil had certain 
ingredients. 

Mr. Pool. Are you telling me, if I buy a can of fish on Friday, I am 
supporting the Catholic faith ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. What is the difference ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3587 

Mr. Venable, There is a lot of difference between kosher 

Mr. Pool. A little "k"? 

Mr. Venable. Kosher, and it has certain ingredients in it. 

Mr. Pool. I kind of like kosher pickles better than I do regular 
pickles. 

Mr. Venable. I have eaten them myself, your Honor. 

Mr. Pool. I don't know what they do to me, but they are better. 

Mr. Venable. I am not against it personally, against any race, color, 
or creed. 

Mr. Pool. Was this the main purpose of the Ku Klux Klan, to get 
in to act ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. This is just a byproduct ? 

Mr. Venable. It is just a different corporation printing different 
subjects. 

Mr. Pool. Was this a subject of importance to the members to boy- 
cott these things ? 

Mr. Venable. We was on many subjects like the mental health 
program, foreign aid. Federal Reserve. We discussed many subjects 
so the public could know something about it. We didn't know all 
about it. We knew a little something about it. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, I would like to show you the annual 
registration for a corporation for the years 1963 and 1964 of the De- 
fensive Legion of Registered Americans, Inc., of which you have said 
the Christian Voters and Buyers League was a part 

Mr. Venable. It was just a trade association, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. On the 1963 registration, Mr. James R. Venable is 
listed as the president, and the authorized agent in the State of Georgia 
is listed as either Mr. James R. Venable or Wally Butterworth. 

On the 1964 registration, the president again is listed as James R. 
Venable, the authorized agent in Georgia is listed as Wally Butter- 
worth. 

Now at the time that these two registrations were effected Mr. 
Venable, were both yourself and Mr. Butterworth members of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't answer. I only become a member of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan after it was chartered 
and the first meeting had, you know. I believe it was in November, if 
you got the date there. 

(Annual registration documents marked "James Venable Exhibits 
Nos. 3-A and 3-B," respectively, appears on p. 3588. Copy of charter 
marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 3-C.' See committee report. 
The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 335-338.) 

Mr. Manuel. November 1963? 

Mr. Venable. I never did see Mr. Wally Butterworth initiated in 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan or any Ku Klux Klan, 
you know. I was not present when he was initiated in United, or if 
he Avas initiated in the National, I was not present, to my knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. As Imperial Wizard of the National Knights, 
wouldn't you know whether or not Mr. Butterworth was a member? 

Mr. Venable. I issued him a card, you know, but as far as swearing 
him in and initiating him, I never did do that because I understood 
he had been. He gave me a certain hand grip which I recognized as 
a member. 



3588 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



James Venable Exhibit No. 3-A 

p™r.» ^?!i ""^ r^tf on° STATE OF GEORGIA 1,, ,c. , ,,.,, 

^ ^- r^ , l^o3 now due $1.00 j :,^ ■ tn ^ )K^^r, 

y ^ tyt:^^' • ->• 

CERTIFIED STATEMENT FOR ANNUAL REGISTRATION OF A CORPORATION 

NAMeJqf corporation :,Pe_'>4y!,!r''9'°". °^ Re£isteredJmcri£a^ns^Inc 

PRESIDENT: ^fi ilC^i \\^ U '■■ ^'-f-^~:~ ^ ^GENERAL MANAGER ,^ , y -.-^.. 

PRINCIPAL OFFI^^Street and No.) 'd2L L^C l^ ^jAl'-'prrA^ CITY .^ ^j j ^ " i j^ ^^fi. ST.4.TE 

PRINCIPAL. OFFICE IN CA.r (St. and No.) &^_-/l/^i-'^ L^- ''J^l^lifL. CITY- 
AUTHORIZED AGENT IN GA. "f foreign): -JydP''*^^3^Jt^^.Lf^^-^ — O^ lA^ 

AGENT'S ADDRESS (If foreign):. 5/.t' '4^ ti '^ i_) i^i'Vfr'; CITY„ 

NATURE OF BUSINESS ^ -0.' '' ''■^ i' C\ ' 1 7~' lltjl^'-t .^ f--^ -l. ^ Li-JrtJ-ZZl/ ^ 

WHEN INCORPORATED (Date) // (■> , ^__. _.BEGAN BySlNESS IN GA. (Date) 

WHERE INCORPORATED (CITY) , . )Ctt6. 'ilP i f ^ltC\^ (--L' COnNTy STATE J^.,t~ ■ 

BY WHAT AUTHORITY ' j/^^^Lj, ^ ''I'^^-^pi^ U(-\y |-,.<- ' -^\^{ CAPITAL STOCIC."L'*":Vi^''-''/v' -/-— 

TO THF HONORABLE BEN W. FORtSON, JR., Atlanli, Ga. , ' ^"■^St? /^ '"''y'"^~ 

I hereby! certify tlia^ the above statement furnished the Secretary of State of the State of Georgia for record, as re<]uired by law, is"correct. 

I ,i— n // , . ) DATE .. /^/■^ / P^ ^ 19 

Signed by ,^/'^ ' ^'>^ ("^ (/■J H^^^f'-C: ^ t,t,.f /f.-^:.L< J . '_ ' 

/ ,- • (OVIR) 




James Venable Exhibit No. 3-B 
'""'■* i state of georgia ' '^'^■ 

,/ ; CERTIFIED STATEMENT FOR ANNUAL REGISTRATION OF A CORPORATION 

NAME OF CORPORATION: /^^''^f'?^^) -^^^-^ '"/ ^^^>^J'<^^-^~-f^'- <^^^ ^ l^^T^ t..^ . M ^ C, 

PRESIDENT: kr^^^-^zfl-A-^^^^^^t^SL 1 GE^ziKL MANAGbR.. , ^ ... ^ 

PRINCIPAL OFFIctf (Street and 'Ao^S'AQ.^Vl:I^Wjj:^:l^-'<kL.. CITY_ ^^^^._^W:i^<*<^ STATE y'^^ 

-^TMNCIPAL OFFICE IN GA.: (St. and No ) ^6' (^ l/F LA- ^^^±S^__^ -^ CITY fV^i^' y^fi ^ 'cL^U -^ .^^, 

i*T«JTHORlZED ;jVGENT IN GA. (If foreign) :-./Z^S^^;^i. 'Lfi-^ZiU^^^^S, ,^_ ^' J J 

AGENT'S ADDRESS (If foreign) :..- ^i^:^_^_._ ^ ^1^^ ihU '^ CVTy '^ ^^tT^ y^d -^^^^J^-t,-,^ \ J 

NATURE OF BUSINESS fgypC^lc Aii: "^Aj ^ JfJJi /[fC /V (-^CrX^y^^cf^ ( _* 

WHEN INCORPORATED (Date) _y^ 2- t<^?2^'' BEGAN BUSINESS IN GA. (D^Ku.&^67^-Z'/L^:..!?r.:r_'...^. ... 

WHERE INCORPORATED ICITYl ./Vyife .7'_'^ll_ C0UNTY_.._7?^^:^^^. STATE ....^^i^ 

BY WHAT AUTHORITY (YU. ju . ^ l>^'J'2^AAy"-^ CAPITAL STOCK. .:_ 

TO THE HONORABLE BEN W. FORTSON, JJL, AtlanU, Ga. 

I hereby^ certify that the above statement furnished the Secretary of State of the State of Georgia ^or jecord, u required by law, is correct. 

Sigr.ed by l^rj^^^^^^ < W'lM^d^ Tm.F V^ ^^/ ^J^ ^^■<'* '^ '.' «» 

<y (OVER) 



Mr. Manuel. And you issued him a membership card ? 

Mr. Venable. He was never active in the Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you and Mr. Butterworth officers in the De- 
fensive Legion of Registered Americans? 

Mr. Venable. He was what we called a narrator, kind of a manager. 
He made the tapes, he made the records, and I practically paid the 
money, you know. It cost me lots of money to fool with it; it was 
a losing proposition. 

Mr. Manuel. Were there any other officers on the staff or on the 
board of the Defensive Legion of Registered Americans? 

Mr. Venable. We had a lady there a short while who helped us, 
and he and I and my nephews and my sister helped us, you know, 
with some secretarial work and keep the books and records and post 
the addresses for mail and records where they was going to the users 
who ordered them. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3589 

Mr. Manuel. Did you maintain a regular mailing list for the De- 
fensive Legion? 

Mr. Vexable. We had a mailing list, but I never did have it. Mr. 
Butterworth kept the list. He made it up and he kept it. When he 
left, he had taken the membership lists and taken a lot of records, 
I don't know what records, maybe his personal records. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, where did the records 
come from that were used by Mr. Butterworth ? 

Mr. Venable. Do you mean what records we bought ? I think the 
first batch of records we bought in Atlanta, Georgia, I forgotten the 
name of the company. He made out and made the arrangements to 
buy them. I think I put up the first payment on them, you know, 
maybe a hundred or two hundred dollars. 

Mr. Manuel. Were all of these records purchased from the Kite 
Record Company ^ of Cincinnati, Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. I am pretty sure all of them but 
maybe the first order or the second order or something like that. 
He done all the buying and purchasing things, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. Were all of the labels on the records those of the 
Defensive Legion of Registered Americans? 

Mr. Venable. That was all his design; all that Avas left entirely 
up to him. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did you ever disseminate records 
with the label "National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" ? 

Mr. Venable. Now, he made one record, one record called "The 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan," what we called a Ku Klux Klan record on the one time, and I 
believe he interviewed some people in Lebb's Restaurant and inter- 
viewed some employees there about what took place about a riot there. 
You wouldn't call it a riot. It was people pushing in, the colored 
people doing it. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that record subsequently played over the radio 
station ? 

Mr. Venable. I didn't have it played, but he could have made it. 

Mr. Pool. Were any of your Klan funds ever used to finance your 
record and tape operations? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir, because neither one of them had any funds. 
I had to finance all of them. 

Mr. Pool. You paid for it out of your pocket ? 

Mr. Venable. Paid practically all of it except the income reflected 
by our books and records. It cost me lots of money. That is the rea- 
son we had to discontinue both, I mean tlie Klan, this Defensive Legion 
or Christian Voters and Buyers. 

Mr. Pool. Did you take any of this off your income tax as an 
exemption ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir ; I didn't take it off as any exemption. 

Mr. Pool. It was just a flat loss to you ? 

Mr. Venable. It was just a flat loss, because if I had taken it off I 
would liave to show it was coming from my ownself . I could not have 
taken it off. It was a losing proposition. We gave away lots of 
records, lots of them were broken. 



1 Rite Record Productions, Inc. 
59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 8 



3590 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. You did derive some income from the Klan operation ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; we got some income, I mean the Defensive 
Legion or Christian Voters and Buyers. 

Mr. Pool. You personally got some income from your Klan 
activities ? 

Mr. Venable. I got some refund. 

Mr. Pool. Why couldn't you take this over then as an expense? 

Mr. Venable. I never did do it. I felt that I owed it to my race 
and my country. 

Mr. Pool. Did you ever take anything off as an exemption on your 
income tax on your operations and expenses promoting the Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, I believe I did. I am going to try to do it this 
year if I got any. 

Mr. Pool. Do you feel if it produced any income for you 

Mr. Venable. It ought to be refunded if it has any, but I would 
rather leave it with the Klan. 

Mr. Pool. "What are some of the expenses you took off of your 
income tax? 

Mr. Venable. I haven't filed 1965 yet. 

Mr. Pool. Well, what about 1964 ? 

Mr. Venable. It was a losing proposition there. We taken in I 
believe $591, as I recall. 

Mr. Pool. But you made income as an attorney and you didn't take 
it off of there? 

Mr. Venable. Oh, yes, I made my own what I take for my personal, 
I made my income return 

Mr. Pool. It showed a profit on that ? 

Mr. Venable. On my personal, I am sure I did. 

Mr. Pool. Did you ever take any expenses off in your Klan promo- 
tion ? Did you ever take any of those expenses off your income tax ? 

Mr. Venable. No, I haven't yet. I showed what I spent trying to 
improve the Tucker Building for paints and materials, and so forth. 
I had none to take off. You might say all of it was a loss. 

Mr. Clawson. Is the name of this organization Christian Voters 
and Buyers ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Clawson. What was the "buyer" part of it? Did you recom- 
mend buyers? 

Mr. Venable. Well, certain products. 

Mr. Clawson. Were any of them distributed or sold by Christian 
people ? 

Mr. Venable. We never did manufacture any products. 

Mr. Clawson. I don't mean that; when you recommended buyers, 
did you buy from Christians or did you buy from people known to 
be Christians ? 

Mr. Venable. I never did make any recommendation. That Avas 
left up to Mr. Butterworth. 

Mr. Clawson. Did he make recommendations along that line ? 

Mr. Venable. I am sure he did. 

Mr. Clawson. Would that be supporting a Christian then if you 
made that kind of recommendation ? 

Mr. Venable. The Christian Voters and Buyers League was trying 
to get people to register and vote. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3591 

Mr. Clawson. What was the buyers part of it ? 

Mr. Venable. To buy certain products. 

Mr. Clawson. From certain people? 

Mr. Venable. Certain people, certain manufacturers, certain groups. 

Mr. Clawson. If the name was Christian, then they were using 
Christian people. Wouldn't that be supporting the Christian religion ? 

Mr. Venable. If you buy from them, it would be increasing their 
income. 

Mr. Clawson. It would be the same as the Jewish situation. 

Mr. Venable. It seems it would be. 

Mr. Pool. You were putting up the money for Butterworth, but 
you didn't know what he was doing ? 

Mr. Venable. It was left up to him, through, to do these things. 
I didn't have time to participate in it much. 

Mr. Pool. You felt like he had good judgment and you relied on 
him? 

Mr. Venable. I thought he had good judgment, but I had a loss. 

Mr. Manuel. I show you a series of documents the committee has 
in its possession relating to the Defensive Legion of Registered Amer- 
icans and the Voters and Buyers League. These documents include a 
letter under your signature sent to "Mr. and Mrs. Christian American, 
and Family, :#rl Main Street, Everywhere, U.S.A.," and a list of in- 
structions and certain other documents relating to certain corpora- 
tions and, I might add, Mr. Chairman, that if there are any corpora- 
tions that are left out of this, it would be amazing. And I ask you, 
Mr. Venable, to review those documents and explain to the committee 
why all those companies were listed on those documents of the Chris- 
tian Voters and Buyers League. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Butterworth listed those, you know. I mean, he 
had a buying book, a big catalogue. I don't know what you call it, 
kind of like a directory. 

(Documents marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 4" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Manuel. Am I to understand every company listed in those 
documents was to be boycotted by persons whom you would contact? 

Mr. Venable. That is the list he sent out. It is may personal opinion 
that lots of them companies on there shouldn't be boycotted, you 
know. 

Mr. Pool. What about reading a few of those names there, Mr. 
Venable, that are to be boycotted. 

Mr. Venable. Look, like you got one here, company like Marquis 
Neuman, Goldes, and Blum. It says national distribution on it; 
Duncan C&T of Houston, Texas. 

Of course, a lot of these things here I don't know what it means 
or why. I couldn't explain all them companies. I understand from 
him he used a directory listing these, national, some type of directory. 

Mr. Manuel. Were all of these companies listed supposed to be 
operated or owned or manipulated in some fashion by Jewish people? 

Mr. Venable. That, I don't know; you know, I mean, he mdexed 
them and I think he studied them. You see, he's got listed down 
here, and distribution and whether it is State, local, or what. I don't 
know. 



3592 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. According to the document and the first letter on the 
pack that I handed you under your signature, you sent out to persons 
instructions, as I understand that letter, to boycott Kosher food prod- 
ucts, and so forth. 

Am I to understand that every company in that was intended to be a 
target for boycott? 

Mr. Venable. No; I don't think so, you know. It was left up to 
the person who bought it to study the companies. He didn't have to 
boycott them. Free enterprise should exist whether it is owned by 
any race, color, or creed. 

Mr. Clawson. But you made the recommendation that they study 
and then refrain from buying from them ? 

Mr. Venable. If they wanted to. It is left up to the individual. 
I don't think any Government or individual should dominate and 
tell me who to buy from or not to buy from. 

Mr. Clawson. It was just your recommendation ? 

Mr. Venable. It was just a study. It was his recommendation. 

Mr. Clawson. It was your letter so it would be your recommen- 
dation. 

Mr. Venable. Well, it would be that Defensive Legion, under my 
signature as an officer. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you appearing before the committee this after- 
noon in response to a subpena served upon you ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At the Armed Services Hearing Room of the Old 
House Office Building in Washington, D.C., on the 6th of October 
1965? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, an attachment, which was made part of 
that subpena, called upon you to produce in paragraph 1 : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody, or control, maintained by or available to you as Imperial Klonsel 
of the U.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., pursuant to its constitution 
and by-laws, relating to the organization, business, and affairs of said U. S. Klans, 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., and its affiliated organizations, for the period 
from 1955 to date. 

Is it not a fact, Mr. Venable, that you met with me this morning and 
turned over records which you had in your possession ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; I turned over records, but I didn't have any. 
I don't recall having any in the first item. I never had any of them 
records because, as a lawyer, I wouldn't have anything except maybe 
some lawsuits and I don't think that would be admissible. It wouldn't 
be relevant to this proceeding. 

Mr. Manuel. So you have complied with paragraph 1 of the 
subpena ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. So you do not possess any of the items called for now 
in paragraph 1 ? 

Mr. Venable. No. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 2 called upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody, or control, maintained by or available to you as Imperial 
Klonsel of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, also 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3593 

known as Invisible Empire, United Klans Knights of the Ku KIux Klan of Amer- 
ica, Inc., pursuant to its constitution and by-laws, relating to the organization, 
business, and affairs of the said United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan, also known as the Invisible Empire, United Klans Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., and its affiliated organizations, for the period 
from 1961 to date. 

Again, Mr. Venable, have you by turning over documents to me this 
morning complied to the best of your knowledge with paragraph 2 of 
the subpena? 

Mr. Venable. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 3 of your subpena calls upon you to 
produce : 

A copy of the constitution and by-laws of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, Inc., and all books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in 
your possession, custody, or control, maintained by or available to you as Im- 
perial Wizard of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc.. pursuant to its 
constitution and by-laws, relating to the organizations, business, and affairs of 
the said National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., and its affiliated organiza- 
tions, for the period from 1963 to date. 

Have you also, Mr. Venable, by turning over certain documents to 
me this morning and records complied fully to the best of your knowl- 
edge with paragraph 3 of this subpena ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir, except I may have a lot of letters from stu- 
dents, you know, just requesting Klan literature for the matter of writ- 
ing a thesis on the Ku Klux Klan. 

(Constitution and Laws of Knights of the Ku Klux Klan together 
with certain amendments adopted by the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, Inc., marked "James Venable Exhibits Nos. 5-A and 5-B," 
respectively, and retained in committee files.) 

Mr. Manuel. Other than the documents that you turned over to the 
committee through me this morning, do you possess or do you have 
control over any other books, records, documents, correspndence, or 
memoranda? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir. I had some applications and I had some let- 
ters at Tucker, Georgia, but 2 or 3 months ago somebody went in there 
and got some old applications, come in from Ohio that never have 
been processed, most of them, 1964, and somebody got an old televi- 
sion out there. Them's the only records I had. I had a lot of letters 
and copies of letters in there. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge does any other indi- 
vidual or officer of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan maintain 
or have control over any of the documents, if they exist, of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. Nobody that I know of except this lady, Mrs. Witte, 
she may have some that are not available. I mean being — was an of- 
ficer up there in Ohio, active then and inactive now, and Mrs. Foster 
might have some correspondence herself. She's got charge of the 
ladies' auxiliary. 

Mr. Clawson. What was that name ? 

Mr. Venable. Mrs. Estelle Foster, sometimes known as Granny 
Foster. 

Mr. Manuel. Does she hold an official position in the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. She is known as Grand Commander, the same as an 
Emperor. 



3594 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, since March of 1965, 
have any records, correspondence, memoranda, or books belonging to 
the National Knights of the Kn Klux Klan been destroyed either by 
yourself or anyone else ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; not to my knowledge, you know. I had some out 
at Tucker and I got some in the Atlanta office — not to my knowledge. 
In fact, I would not permit them to be destroyed because I know we 
have to have them for tax purposes and files. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, have you complied 
fully to paragraph 3 of the subpena? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragi'aph 4 calls upon you to produce : 

A copy of the constitution and by-laws of the National Association of Klans 
in America, and all books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda 
in your possession, custody, or control, maintained by or available to you as 
Chairman of the National Association of Klans In America, pursuant to its 
constitution and by-laws, relating to the organization, business, and affairs 
of the said National Association of Klans In America, and its aflQliated organi- 
zations, for the period from 1958 to date. 

Mr. Venable. I would like to say that the association did adopt 
the constitution in which you get a photostatic copy but as to any 
records or books I never have had any of the association. I am just 
temporary chairman. If there are any, Mr. Shearouse in Savannah 
used to live — I suppose he is still there — he was secretary of the 
National Association. 

Mr. Manuel. How does Mr. Shearouse spell his last name? 

Mr. Venable. S-h-e-a-r-o-u-s-e. 

Mr. Manuel. What was his position ? 

Mr. Venable. Secretary from year to year, like myself. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, is he the custodian of 
the records? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, what do those records 
include? 

Mr. Venable. It would include who was members of it, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. Would it include minutes of the meetings of the Na- 
tional Association ? 

Mr. Venable. It would probably include minutes or discussions 
made. I don't know how it kept them. 

Mr. Manuel. As chairman of the National Association, do you have 
access or control over those documents or records ? 

Mr. Venable. No, I don't have any control over them. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, have you as chair- 
man of the National Association of Klans complied with paragraph 
4 of your subpena ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir; of anything I got. I told you verbally 
what it stood for, but I don't have anv documentary evidence. 

Mr. Clawson. Before you leave that, what authority do you have 
as temporary chairman ? 

Mr. Venable. Nothing ; iust to preside. 

Mr. Clawson. Wlio does have authority? 

Mr. Venable. The delegates^ — I have no voting authority, and I 
keep no books or records and have no business to look at them. They 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3595 

elected a secretary, the gentleman I just spoke of, and if there was 
any minutes or records or resolutions he would have them. 

Mr. Clawsox. He would have more authority than the chairman, 
then? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Clawson. Wlio delegates that authority ? 

Mr. Venable. The delegates. 

Mr. Clawson. Do they delegate the authority just to him? 

Mr. Venable. Just him and his secretary. He takes down anything 
or writes up anything. I have no jurisdiction over him. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venahle, paragraph 5 of your subpena calls upon 
you to produce : 

A copy of the constitution and by-laws of the Defensive Legion of Registered 
Americans, Inc., and all books, records, documents, correspondence, and memo- 
randa in your possession, custody, or control, maintained by or available to 
you as President of the Defensive Legion of Registered Americans, Inc., pur- 
suant to its constitution and by-laws, relating to the organization, business, 
and affairs of the said Defensive Legion of Registered Americans, Inc., and its 
aflBliated organizations, for the period from 1962 to date. 

Mr. Venable. I produced all of tliem in my custody and control. 

Now, Mr. Butterworth may have some. When he moved he took 
some records. They may have been personal, I don't know. In fact, 
he had taken everything of the corporation except those that I had for 
income tax purposes. He may have had letters and so forth, I don't 
know. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, Mr. Venable, have you 
complied Avith paragraph 5 of the subpena ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 6 calls upon you to produce : 

A copy of the constitution and by-laws of the Christian Voters and Buyers 
League, Inc., and all books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda 
in your possession, custody, or control, maintained by or available to you as 
President of the Christian Voters and Buyers League, Inc., pursuant to its con- 
stitution and by-laws, relating to the organization, business, and affairs of the 
said Christian Voters and Buyers League, Inc., and its affiliated organizations, 
for the period from 1962 to date. 

Mr. Venable. That would be included in a Defensive Legion. 
That Avas merely a trade name used which was owned by the corpora- 
tion. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, have you complied 
fully with paragraph 6 ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; other than if there are any others that Mr. 
Butterworth would probably have, but I don't know. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess for 3 minutes. 

(Brief recess) 

Mr. Pool. Tlie committee will come to order. 

Mr. Venable, I have been looking over this list of boycotted firms. I 
have noticed that among them are included the Duncan Coffee and 
Tea Company of Houston, Texas, and the Frito-Lay Company of 
Dallas, Texas. I have watched these organizations grow from small — 
even one-room operations — into large and great companies of the 
United States. Their growth is a real tribute to the American system 
of democracy and enterprise. 



3596 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

You do not name any of their executives here. You do not show 
any reason for induding them on the list. It is very unfair to have 
listed companies such as these — which have struggled hard to grow 
and contribute to the Nation's economy. 

My feelings in this regard apply to the Gladiola-Dallas Company — 
and Mrs. Baird's Bakery. Mrs. Baird began her operation by baking 
birthday cakes. Little by little, her business increased. Through her 
baking, she was able to put her four sons through college. The whole 
family has contributed much to Dallas and even to the entire State, 
as their operation has branched out to Houston and Forth Worth. 
Her initiative is another tribute to American enterprise. It is an 
insult to the American people to put out an irresponsible list like 
this in criticism of people having done a good job. 

Youngblood's in the kitchen business — this is another example. 
Just like the others, they started with a small beginning. I am per- 
sonally familiar with all of these companies and that is why I men- 
tion them here. Many, many others on your list bear brand names 
that are synonymous with the American way of life. 

Anderson-Clayton has done an enormous amount of good in this 
country and throughout the world. If it were not for the help of this 
compaiiy in marketing the cotton of Texas throughout the world, our 
State economy would not have boomed over a period of many yeai-s. 
Anderson-Clayton has been an important element in international- 
izing the economy of Texas and the United States. 

It is a disservice to the Nation to publish a list like this. I am 
pointing out your error with regard to companies I am personally 
familiar with, and I want the record to show this. 

I believe Mr. Clawson ran into one or two from California. 

Mr. Venable. I am sure if you got Mr. Butterworth here to explain 
this, he could explain it. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Butterworth cannot tell me anything about my own 
Dallas concerns. I think I know more about them than he does. I 
know" what I am talking about on these. 

Mr. Venable. I am sure you are familiar with the companies. 

Mr. Pool. I am sure the same list has the same inaccuracies and 
assumptions all the way through it. I think the whole thing is wrong 
anyhow, to say that something is bad and you should not buy it just 
because Jewish people have something to do with it. I think that is a 
wrong assumption. I think the Jewish people have done a lot in 
this world to make America great and I want to be sure that gets in 
the record, too. 

Mr. Venable. I hold no ill will, Mr. Chairman, against any race, 
color, or creed. Some of the best friends I got are Jewish people. 

Mr. Pool. This is the most assinine thing I have seen the Ku Klux 
Klan do yet. 

Mr. Venable. The Ku Klux Klan didn't doit. 

Mr. Pool. Then Mr. Butterworth, because he is connected with it. 
You signed the letter. 

Mr. Venable. He was connected with it. 

Mr. Pool. You should have checked up on what you were signing. 

Mr. Clawson. 

Mr. Clawson. You have some listed here in California, such as the 
Breakfast Club, and there are others such as the Folgers and MJB 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3597 

and Maxwell House. All of these companies — Nescafe, Old Dutch — 
I imagine if you went through all of these pages, some hundred or so 
pages, there would be very few firms that you could still do business 
with. 

Mr. Pool. I think this committee can write legislation to stop this 
kind of action and I am glad this came up, because if this is going on, 
we should certainly be able to write legislation to stop this kind of 
thing. 

Mr. Clawson. Does this become a part of the record ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, I would ask that all documents Mr. Venable has 
turned over to the committee and all documents we will go into with 
Mr. Venable during his testimony will be made a part of the record. 

Mr. Pool. Thank you. 

We will be glad to do it. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, as far as the National Association of 
Ku Klux Klans is concerned, to your best knowledge other than your- 
self and Mr. Shearouse, w^hom you have already identified as the 
secretary, who are the other officers of the association ? 

Mr. Venable. They are elected officers, and I couldn't name them 
other than myself and Mr. Shearouse. I am sure he has a list of 
them. 

Mr. Manuel. When was the last time the association held^ 

Mr. Venable. Some months ago they elected officers of the asso- 
ciation to preside in the difi'erent chairs when they meet, you know, but 
in truth and in fact it was always in a rush to transact any business. 
They never did open and close just like a Klavern should or like a 
kloncilium should. 

Mr. Manuel. Did the National Association hold an election in 
September of 1964? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know what date it was. I know they had one 
and I was retained as temporary chairman and Mr. Shearouse was 
maintained as secretary, but I don't know the date or the month. I 
don't want to testify to something I don't know about, dates or times. 

Mr. Manuel. In September of 1964 the committee investigation 
has determined that there was an election of the National Association 
held and that you, as you have stated, were reelected to the position 
of chairman and Mr. I. T. Shearouse, Jr., known as Ted Shearouse, 
was elected to the position of kligrapp or secretary. 

Mr. Venable. That is right. 

Mr. Manuel. To your direct knowledge, Mr. Venable was Mr. P. 
L. Morgan of Louisiana elected to the position of klaliff, or vice presi- 
dent. 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't tell, other than myself and secre- 
tary. I couldn't call the names. If you read them, I am sure your 
notes are correct, but the secretary would have that knowledge. 

Mr. Manuel. I am asking you as the chairman. 

Mr. Venable. I wouldn't say he was or w^asn't, other than myself 
and the secretary. 

Mr. Manuel. Is the basis of your answer, Mr. Venable, that you do 
not know ? 

Mr. Venable. I would know these people if you called the names, 
but as to how they was elected and what position they were elected to. 
I haven't got any notes on that. 



3598 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever know Mr. P. L. Morgan of Louisiana 
who served as the klaliff or vice president of the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. Vice president ? 

Mr. Manuel. The klaliff or the vice president or vice chairman. 

Mr. Venable. He may have been elected. The reason — as I told 
you, sometimes when they would meet, you know, some person would 
fill the chair like this committee here, not the chairman, and I would 
be busy trying to wait on the delegates, feed them, and so forth. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr, P. L. Morgan to be a delegate to 
the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. I know him to be the delegate, but as any officer I 
don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Is he a delegate from the Klan group known as the 
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. That group I don't know what name it is. I know 
Mr. Morgan. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Charles H. Maddox, of Bloomingdale, 
Georgia, who was a delegate from the Association of Georgia Klans 
elected to the position of klokard ? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know. I know that his organization 
was or has been a member of the association. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. Charles Maddox to be a delegate 
from that association ? 

Mr. Venable. He has come there as a delegate. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. H. G. Hill of Atlanta to be elected 
to the position of kludd in the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. Of the National Association ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr. Walter 

Mr. Venable. I don't know what he was elected to. I know he is 
a member of it. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr. Walter Rogers of the United 
Florida [Ku Klux] Klan to be elected to the position of kladd? 

Mr. Venable. I couldn't state what position he is elected to. I am 
familiar with Mr. Rogers. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mr. Rogers to your direct knowledge, or has he 
been, a delegate to the National Association from the United Florida 
Klan? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; he has attended some of the meetings, not 
all of the meetings. I know Mr. Rogers. I don't know what is the 
name of his group in Florida. There are several groups there. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Flynn Harvey of Columbus, Ohio, ever held 
the position of klexter, or outer guard in the association ? 

Mr. Venable. He had attended some meetings but I don't know 
whether he was elected an officer, or outer guard or inner guard. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he a delegate to the National Association? 

Mr. Venable. He was a delegate there on maybe one or two oc- 
casions. 

Mr. Manuel, What Klan did he represent ? 

Mr, Venable, The National Knights, 

Mr. Manuel. The National Knights ? 

Mr. Venable. At that time ; yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Of which you are the Imperial Wizard ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3599 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Robert Hodges, delegate from the Associa- 
tion of South Carolina Klans ever hold the position of night-hawk in 
the association ? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't say. I know he has attended as a 
delegate, but his holding of any position I don't know, you know. I 
wouldn't say he did or didn't. 

Mr. Manltel. Subsequent to this election, Mr. Venable, which was 
held in September of 1964, to your knowledge, was Mr. Murry H. 
Martin of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan from Louisiana 
appointed to the position of klokann chief of the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. I know Mr. Martin has attended, but as far as his 
holding that position or elected, I couldn't say without having any 
records which are not available to me. I know they elected officers to 
fill the chairs when they had meetings, but who they elected other than 
me and the secretary, I couldn't say. 

Mr. Manuel. Again, so the record is straight, I would like to ask 
you questions pertaining to each organization which is a member of 
the National Association and the identification of the delegates, which 
information the committee has partially in its possession. I would 
ask you to affirm our information. 

Is a member of the association a group called the Association of 
South Carlolina Klans ? 

Mr. Venable. It is a member of the National Klan Association, 
but, as I stated, they send different delegates. They come on there. 
There may be one this time and another one the next time. 

Mr. Manuel. Is Mr. Eobert Hodges of Columbia, South Carolina, a 
member of that organization ? 

Mr. Venable. Wlien he comes he is a delegate, you know, but he 
could send one or two to represent him. He would be a delegate. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Aubrey Bolen or Mr. Cecil Mims ever been 
a delegate to the convention ? 

Mr. Venable. I believe the gentlemen's names register as delegates, 
not at all times but on certain occasions. 

Mr. Manuel. Have Mr. P. L. Morgan and L. G. Wilder and Mr. 
Hunter of Coushatto, Louisiana, been delegates to the National 
Association meetings ? 

Mr Venable. I would not say they have or have not. They are 
not names that were familiar with me. It doesn't register with me. 
I wouldn't say they have or have not. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Morgan ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Morgan has. He has been a delegate. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Wilder ? 

Mr. Venable. I wouldn't know unless I could see that gentleman, 
you know. Vei'y few of the names I know. I know lots of their 
faces. I know Mr. Morgan has. 

Mr. Manuel. Is the Improved Order of U.S. Klans a member of 
the national organization? 

Mr. Venable. That is Mr. George ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Venable. They have off and on for the last year or two. They 
would not send delegates all the time. Mr. George has been sick. 



3600 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. George been a delegate to the convention? 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Ira DeBolt been a representative to every 
convention of the national organization ? 

Mr. Venable. I believe Mr. DeBolt has attended several. I don't 
know whether he came as Mr. George's delegate or not, but I know he 
come with Mr. George one time. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Murry H. Martin from the State of Louisi- 
ana been a delegate to the national oro;anizntion? 

Mr. Venable. I know we have some Florida Klans, a Klan or Klans 
down there, but I don't know the names of them. They have had some 
representatives or delegates. 

Mr. Manuel. Has Mr. Jason Kersey from New Smyrna Beach, 
Florida, been there ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes ; he has been there but he has been incapacitated. 
He has had a heart, attack or something. 

Mr. Manitel. Has Mr. Walter Rogers of Tallahassee, Florida, been a 
delegate? 

Mr. Venable. I have seen him there. 

Mr. Manuel. Does the Association of Georgia Klans send delegates 
to the National Association ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Have Mr. Ted Shea rouse and Mr. Norton Anderson 
and Mr. Charles Maddox served as delegates ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Andersons' name doesn't register with me. I 
know Mr. Shearouse and Mr Maddox. I may know Mr. Anderson, 
but, you know, the name wouldn't register. 

Mr. Manltel. Mr. Venable, would you please tell the committee, as 
of the current time, how many Klaverns or units are in existence of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. We got one at Tucker and I think we got a small one 
over in Alabama 

Mr. Manuel. Wliat citv ? 

Mr. Venable. Hartwell. I have not attended one in Hartwell. I 
have been over there on occasions. Tucker, you know, we Avould meet 
there, not too often. 

In the State of Ohio, I have never attended a Klavern, you know, 
what we call a Klavern, as I recall, you know. I mean I have been up 
there on many meetings, with rallies, you know, but I don't know if 
there is a Klavern in Ohio or not. To my own personal knowledge, I 
have not received any fees or any dues from any of them up there. 

Mr. Manuel. Wliat city in Alabama does the National Knights have 
a Klavern ? 

Mr. Venable. They have a small Klavern, I believe, in Centre, 
Alabama. 

Mr. Manuel. Who are the leaders in Centre? 

Mr. Venable. There are about 20 there, but I don't know who the 
officers are. I have been there. I met all of them. I mean, I have just 
seen everybody, but I couldn't name them by name and whether they 
were officers because I don't know wlien they were installed or anything. 

Mr. Manuel. How long has that Klavern been there? 

Mr. Venable. Maybe a year or less, or maybe a little longer. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3601 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. Ray McGriff, Mr. Holcombe, or Mr. Curtis 
King instrumental in organizing' that Klavern? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know, whether they was instrumental 
or who was. I gave Mr. Holcombe a couj)le of charters. He said he 
was going to try to start a couple of Klaverns, you know, but I don't 
know whether he started them or under what names or whether he 
started this one in Centre or not. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge has Mr. Holcombe started a 
Klavern of the National Knights in Barnesville, Georgia? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know. I understood there w^as some 
Klavern. I never received any sums of moneys or dues or applications 
from there. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Holcombe or Mr. McGriff ever report to you 
that there was a Klavern of the National Knights ? 

Mr. Venable. No; they never reported it to me. They said they 
was trying to get one organized. I don't know whether it was at 
Griffin or Barnesville or College Park. I never attended any Klavern 
in that city there where they were organizing. 

Mr. Manuel. Have Mr. McGriff and Mr. Holcombe acted as orga- 
nizers for the National Knights to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Holcombe has tried to organize, and I guess Mr. 
McGriff may have helped him. 

Mr. Manuel. Have Mr. Holcombe and Mr. McGriff, to your knowl- 
edge, acted as members of degree teams in the State of Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. They made, I believe, two trips up there. We was 
trying to get a degree team. Mr. Morris wanted to initiate some people 
up there, and I asked Mr. Holcombe if he could get a degree team, and 
he did carry a degree team or a degree team was sent up there. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, has Mr. Holcombe or Mr. McGriff ever 
given you a list of members they have taken into the National Knights 
of theKuKluxKlan? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir; I have never had any list or any application 
from any source from them where they had taken in any members. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, were they acting as organizers 
into the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. They never did tell me they was either. Mr. Hol- 
combe said he was trying to get some Klaverns started, but I never got 
any applications. 

Mr. Manuel. Would persons that they initiated into the Klavern 
of the National Knights be members in your eyes? 

Mr. Venable. They would not be members unless they was initiated 
in the National. They would fill in the application and pay their 
klectokon fees, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. Would they have the power to do this, accept applica- 
tions, take money 

Mr. Venable. No ; they would not have the power unless an appli- 
cation was signed by the applicant and okayed by that committee or 
that Klavern or the memberships of that Klavern and they would 
process them themselves. 

Mr. Manuel. How often has that taken place in the National 
Knights ? 

Mr. Venable. Out at Tucker, we met on many occasions to initiate 
some aliens, as you call them. 



3602 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr, Manuel. To your knowledge has Mr. Cecil Myers or Mr. Joseph 
Howard Sims been initiated into membership ? 

Mr. Venable. Not to my knowledge, not in the National. I under- 
stood Mr. Sims was a member of the United, you know. That I under- 
stood, but I don't know it to be a fact. I heard that and I read it in 
the paper. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge has Mr. Sims or Mr. Myers ever 
attended national meetings of the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Venable. Not to my knowledge at a Klavern. They could have, 
but I don't know whether they did or not. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, I would like to show you an article from 
the Portland, Maine, Press Herald dated October 13, 1965, and this 
article has a picture of Cecil Myers wearing a black shirt, a member of 
the Ku Klux Klan threatening Brig Cabe, a Negro photographer, at 
Crawfordville, Georgia. The caption reads "Klansmen Disrupt Negro 
March To Church In Ga." 

The following paragraphs were included in this article, after this 
alleged attack took place on the Negro photographer. 

Mr. Sims told newsmen, and he is quoted as follows : 

"We are still in the Klan but we are not in Craig's Klan. We have the same 
basic beliefs." Craig heads the Georgia branch of the United Klans of America. 

Sims said he and Myers belong to the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
headed by attorney James Venable of Stone Mountain, Ga., and a rival of the 
United Klans. 

The National Knights, Sims said, differ from the other group in that they 
"want a little more action." 

He identified himself and Myers as "black knights." He also referred to some 
organization other than the National Knights. 

"We don't care to identify our organization. We have a leader," he said. 
"Most of our people are in Alabama." 

Mr. Venable, I invite your inspection of this particular article which 
I have just read and ask, to your certain knowledge, whether Mr. Sims 
and Mr. Myers, as Mr. Sims stated to the news people, were members of 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Venable. I have never received an application from them. 
I have never seen them initiated in any Klavern of the National 
Knights. If they were initiated it was unknown to me, and what 
Klavern. I have no knowledge. 

(Document marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 6" appears on pp. 
3603, 3604.) 

Mr. Pool. Are you saying that you don't know whether they are 
members or not? 

Mr. Venable. That is right, I don't know if they are members. I 
didn't see them swear them in; I don't know what Klavern they 
belong to. I mean, in the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 
They could be unknown to my knowledge. I guess there is a lot of 
people belonging to it that I couldn't say either was or was not. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever met them in a Klaveni ? 

Mr. Venable. I met this gentleman here this week, back here, I 
believe his name is Sims, to know him personally. 

Mr. Pool. That is the first time you met him ? 

Mr. Venable. I have seen his picture in the papers, in the national 
newsprint, and I read this article but I never had any knowledge of 
this article until today. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3603 



James Venable Exhibit No. 6 

[Portland, Maine, Press Herald, Oct. 13, 1965] 




Flees Klansman 



Cecil Myers, wearing black .shirt, a member of the Kii Klux Klan. threat- 
ens Brig Cabe, a Negro photographer, ar CrawfordvUie. Ga , Tuesday. 



3604 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



James Venable Exhibit No. 6— Continued 



Klansmen Disrupt Negro 
March To Church In Ga. 



CRAWFORDVILLE, Ga. 

fAP) — Two Ku Klux Klansmen 
tried to attack a Negro photog- 
rapher Tuesday during a two- 
mile civil rights march to a Ne- 
gro church where demonstra- 
tors have been meeting for sev- 
eral weeks. 

The Klansmen were tried and 
acquitted for the slaying last 
year of a Washington, D.C., Ne- 
gro educator on a lonely north- 
east Georgia road. 

Cecil Myers and John Howard 
Sims broke past two state troop- 
ers as an estimated 100 march- 
ers approached the Negro 
church in this rural town. 

One trooper grabbed Sims. 
But Myers charged past and 
chased the photographer, Brig 
Cabe, who works for the South- 
ern Christian Leadership Con- 
ference. 

Myers made a diving lunge at 
Cabe and both fell to the 
ground. Troopers quickly pulled 
the two apart. Myers was 
charged with assault and later 
released on $100 bond posted by 
Crawfordville citizens. 

Sims was questioned and re- 
leased and then threatened to 
take a camera from another 
photographer. But a state troop- 
er intervened and Sims walked 
away. 

Cabe was charged with poss- 
ession of fireworks, which is 
against the law in Georgia, and 
was held in custody. Lt. Col. 
E.B. Harbin, deputy director of 
the State Department of Public 
Safety, said the Negro youth 
had a firecracker in his posses- 
sion. 

Myers and Sims were charged 
with the murder of Lemuel 
Penn last year and later acquit- 
ted. The Negro educator was 
shot while driving through 
Georgia en route to Washington 
from summer camp at Ft. Ben- 
ning, Ga. A third Klansman, 
James Lackey, was arrested 
but never brought to trial. 



The incident on the return 
march from the courthouse oc- 
curred some hours after nearly 
200 Negro demonstrators 
swarmed into the Crawfordville 
Negro school and sat in the hall- 
ways singing and clapping. 

State troopers removed Ed- 
ward Bedford of the Southern 
Christian Leadership Confer- 
ence, the organization headed 
by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 
which is directing the civil 
rights drive. 

The protest started when all 
the white pupils in Taliaferro 
County transferred to surround- 
ing counties in the face of inte- 
gration. 

Frank Bates, another SCLC 
worker, told the demonstrators 
the state troopers wanted them 
to leave. "Do you want to 
move?" he asked. 

"No!" shouted the group sit- 
ting on the floor. 

Bedford. 22, and Bates, 17, 
were arrested. Bates was sitting 
on the floor at the time, and a 
trooper pulled him to his feet. 

The demonstrators returned 
to their church headquarters 
where WiUie Bolden of the SCLC 
charged there had been police 
brutality and announced a 
march to the courthouse. 

He taunted state troopers dur- 
ing the courthouse rally. "This 
is what you call a legalized Ku 
Klux Klan," he said. 

About 60 troopers are in 
Crawfordville. 

On the march back to the 
church Myers and Sims at- 
tempted to get at the Negro 
photographer. Troopers quickly 
put Cabe in a car and took him 
down the road and let him out. 

Myers, who has a black 
beard, was wearing a green 
military-looking cap. black trou- 
sers and a black shirt. There 
was no immediate explanation 
for the outfit he was wearing. 

Cabe started shooting pictures 
of Myers and Sims as they ap- 
proached escorted by two troop- 
ers. It was then they tried to 
break away. 



While Myers and Sims were 
being questioned, W.E. Watson, 
chairman of the Taliaferro 
County Commission, told the 
Klansmen that they had made 
"fools of themselves." He said 
they had "played into the hands 
of the Negro demonstrators." 

W.G. Bird, who identified 
himself as a local supporter of 
the United Klans of America, 
said Myers and Sims were not 
associated with his group — the 
group headed by Robert M. 
Shelton Jr. of Tuscaloosa, Ala. 

Bird said the two men were 
connected with the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
the group which held a rally in 
Crawfordville on Monday night. 

He said the United Klans had 
sought to keep white spectators 
away from Negro demonstra- 
tors in recent days. 

Sims told newsmen that, "We 
are still in the Klan but we are 
not in Craig's Klan. We have the 
same basic beliefs." Craig 
heads the Georgia branch of the 
United Klans of America. 

Sims said he and Myers be- 
long to the National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan headed by 
attorney James Venable of 
Stone Mountain, Ga., and a ri- 
val of the United Klans. 

The National Knights. Sims 
said, differ from the other group 
in that they "want a little more 
action." 

He identified himself and 
Myers as "black knights." He 
also referred to some organiza- 
tion other than the National 
Knights. 

"We don't care to identify our 
organization. We have a lead- 
er," he said. "Most of our peo- 
ple are in Alabama." 

Capt. Arthur L. Hutchins ot 
the Georgia Bureau of Inves- 
tigation, said he did not believe 
the men belonged to any new 
Klan group but merely dressed 
in black and Myers wore the 
beard "to be different." 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3605 

Mr. Pool. Did you ask him if he was a member ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; I didn't ask him whether he was or wasn't. 

Mr. Pool. Did lie tell you he was a member ? 

Mr. Venable. He never told me he was a member of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Clawson. Time after time, you said you don't know because 
you didn't see them sworn in, or you didn't swear them in. Is that 
a reason for not knowing? I doubt if you ever saw 435 Members of 
Congress sworn in, but you know they are sworn in. 

Mr. Venable. I couldn't swear unless I had a record where he was 
initiated or I witnessed it. 

Mr. Clawson. You don't know anything except what you see? 

Mr. Venable. That is right ; unless some member of that Klavern 
or the EC of that Klavern says he swore in certain people, then I 
would know it. I have seen them swear in certain people out at 
Tucker. 

Mr. Clawson. I would say you have a very limited knowledge of 
the organization. 

Mr. Venable. We have a small Klavern and like most of them we 
are a small Klan. 

Mr. Pool. Are you willing to repudiate these men right now? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir; if they belong to this National Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan Association, I mean this corporation here, which 
I am Imperial Wizard of, I will banish them here in this committee, 
I put them on notice they are here and now banished. 

Mr. Pool. Is that what you are doing right now ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir; and if they belong to any Klavern and I 
w^ll see in that Klavern that they get a trial and we can prefer 
charges against them. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that in 
the records which Mr. Venable turned over to the committee, there 
were two letters, both dated October 7, 1965, one addressed to Mr. Earl 
Holcombe at 2520 Jonesboro Road, care of Aliens Trailer Park, Lot 
C-13, Atlanta, Georgia : 

Dear Earl : 

Please do not use the name of National Knights of The Ku Klux Klan, Inc., 
in any Klavern or any public rallies, or use or hand out any of our literature. 

If you are operating any Klaverns at Lakewood, College Park, Barnesville or 
Grifl3n, Georgia, or any other location, please advise all concerned that your 
Klaverns, if any you have, are not in any way connected with the National 
Knights of The Ku Klux Klan, Inc., 
Yours very truly, 

/s/ James R. Venable 
James R. Venable, 

Imperial Wizard, 
National Knights of The Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

Mr. Pool. To whom was that addressed ? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Holcombe. 

Another letter is addressed to Ray McGriff, Post Office Box 615, 
Barnesville, Georgia, dated October 7, 1965, which states exactly the 
same as the letter to Mr. Earl Holcombe. 

Now, Mr. Venable, I hand you these letters and ask you whether if 
in fact you did write these identical letters to Mr. Holcombe and Mr. 
McGriff. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 9 



3606 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir, I dictated these letters to Mr. H. G. 
McBrayer, a young lawyer who does our typing there in the office. 

(Documents marked "James Venable Exhibits Nos. 7-A and 7-B," 
respectively. Exhibit 7-A retained in committee files ; 7-B follows :) 



Mr. Ray McGrlff 
p o Rox tM^'C/V 



James Venable Exhibit No. 7-B 

October 7, 1965 



S#i!#ftn, ^Georgia 
Dear Ray: 



please do not use the naae o/ National Knights of The Ku 
vriux Klan, Inc. In any Klavern or any public rallies, 
or use or hand out any of our literature. 

If you are operating any Klavcrns at Lakeiiood, Ocflege 
Park, Barnesvllle or Griffin, Geotrgla, or any other 
location, please advise all concerned that your Klavorns, 
if any you have, are not in any way connected with the 
National Knights of The Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

Yours very tx&y, 

j^anes 1? . Venable 

Imperial 'Izard 

Natiaial Knights of The Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 

copy to: 

!;ay McGriff 

c/o litchell Brothers Air Conditioning Coapany 

^^arnesville, Georgia 

Mr. Manuel. Why did you write those letters ? 

Mr. Venable. I learned while I was here some time in October this 
thing I read it in newsprint down at Crawfordville. And I learned 
prior to that the concern about these two boys coming here from Ohio 
and, in order to protect this organization, I thought it would be neces- 
sary, as I understood they had been holding meetings or maybe dis- 
tributing literature. 

Mr. Manuel. Prior to the time you wrote this letter, did in fact 
Mr. Ray McGriff and Mr. Earl Holcombe start Klaverns in the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Holcombe, as I said, said he was going to try to 
get two or three started. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he ever authorized by you to do this? 

Mr. Venable. If he could get some started there, but if he got them 
he would have to process the applications and notify me where he was 
starting these Klaverns and how many people he had. But he never 
has. I have never had a report from either him or McGriif that they 
had a Klavern at Griffin or Barnesville or any place else. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3607 

Mr. Manuel. Did you conduct any investigation with regard to the 
activities of Mr. McGriff and Mr. Holcombe concerning their initiation 
and their recruiting on behalf of the National Knights? 

Mr. Venable. A^Hien I learned these things here I asked Mr. 
McGriff, I had him come to my office, and he denied these things to me. 

Mr. Manuel. Which things ? 

Mr. Venable. About this trip of these two young people, Klansmen, 
these subjects from Ohio on coming into Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he deny this ? 

Mr. Venable. And I told Mr. Holcombe not to go in these places 
where there was a riot or any kind of march of any race, color, or creed 
because it might cause trouble. Stay out of them. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlien did Mr. McGriff deny to you that he had been 
involved in any act concerning people from Ohio ? 

Mr. Venable. Both of them denied it. I faced them when I learned 
after these subjects were arrested there and after Mr. Morris, who 
had told me about it, he come by my office and told me about it. 

Mr. Manuel. When did Mr. Morris come by your office and tell 
you about it ? 

Mr. Venable. I think maybe the day he made a visit to the FBI 
and somebody called me from up in Ohio, and I had a communication, 
a letter, that a newspaper sent from Ohio. That is the first knowledge 
I had of this. 

Mr. Manuel. What was the approximate date of that, Mr. Venable ? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't say. Mr. Morris would know what 
day he went to the FBI, that is the first knowledge I had. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, are you acquainted with Mrs. Eloise 
Witte? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; I met her in Ohio, I believe, when I was up 
there to speak at an NAAWP in Cincinnati. I have forgotten the year. 
Maybe it was 1963 or 1964, or some period in along there. 

Mr. Manuel. Was she a member of the National Knights of the 
KuKluxKlan? 

Mr. Venable. She become a member after it become chartered up 
there. 

Mr. Manuel. When did she become a member of the National 
Knights? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know. That was one of the letters that 
somebody got that I had commissioned her up there, but as to the date, 
I don't know when it was, probably 1964 or 1965. 

Mr. Manuel. Where was she initiated ? 

Mr. Venable. She was initiated in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

Mr. Pool. What was she initiated into ? 

Mr. Venable. The National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, you 
know. 

Mr. Pool. She testified the other day that she was in the auxiliary 
and not the actual Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Venable. She was initiated into the National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

Mr. Pool. Not the auxiliary, but the actual Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. I mean she had taken an oath, which is practically 
the same. She is initiated in the National Knights in a chapter where 
men were present, in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 



3608 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Could she attend all the meetings ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; on certain occasions on initiation and when you 
have open joint meetings the ladies can attend, you know, but they 
hold different chapters or Klaverns from the men when they organize 
and operate. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mrs. Witte ever act as an organizer in Ohio for 
the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Venable. I understood she did from Mr. Morris up there. He 
went up there in the summer — I believe it was last year, or maybe 
the year before that. I know I met her out at Mr. Scott's farm up 
there, and she was passing applications around and receiving moneys, 
you know, from applicants. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, are there any ladies' units in Ohio 
of which she could be the Grand Empress ? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know, other than Mrs. Foster told me 
she attended one somewhere, maybe in Cincinnati, some ladies where 
they did meet. I don't know whether it was a chapter or Klavern. It 
may have just been a meeting of certain ladies. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know of any organized Klan unit in the State 
of Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. Organized Klan unit ? 

Mr. Manuel. Organized Klan. 

Mr. Venable. To my personal knowledge, I don't know of any. I 
heard there was one up around Cleveland and I heard of one in Cleve- 
land from attending this meeting here, but I have not attended any 
meetings or seen anyone initiated up there. I heard they did or may 
have one in Cincinnati up there. 

Mr. Manuel. But you don't know exactly ? 

Mr. Venable. I have not received any of the fees from any mem- 
bership or from dues there. 

Mr. Manuel. Who are the leaders of the Klan movement in Ohio 
for the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. The only man we got is Mr. Parkie Scott. He is an 
organizer. That is about all. We may have some individual people 
that is working. 

Mr. Manuel. Was Mr. James Scott ever an organizer ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. who ? 

Mr. Manuel. I am sorry. Mr. James Harris. 

Mr. Venable. Of what Klan ? 

Mr. Manuel. Of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Venable. Now, I met Mr. Harris, I believe, at Parkie Scott's 
first time they had a Klan rally. He was there, and Mr. Morris intro- 
duced me to Mr. Harris, and I met Mr. Harris a second time. I believe 
he attended a — what we call open rally there in Stone Mountain in 
Georgia. 

Mr. Pool. Did he identify what Klan he belonged to? 

Mr. Venable. He never did. I think he was trying to become a 
Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan, maybe of the National. I heard recently 
that he become a member of the United Klan. I don't know that to 
be sure — just rumors. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, is the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan currently active in the State of Ohio? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3609 

Mr. Venable. Not too active. We liave a few people, I am sure, 
left up there. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any connection with the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; I was trying to to help in that field there be- 
cause Mr. Morris felt that if we could unite the Klans we could operate 
it under the old name, the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. IVIanuel. What was the reason for the change of the name in 
Ohio from the National Knights to the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. In discussing it with him and some of the delegates 
at these various meetings, they wanted to get back to tlie old name, 
the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and confer definite degrees. 

Mr. Manuel. In the records w^hich you turned over to the commit- 
tee this morning, there was included in the correspondence a letter 
dated July 8, 1965, addressed to "Mr. Flyn Harvey" of 418 South Jo- 
sephine Avenue, Columbus 4, Oliio, which reads as follows : 

Dear Flyn : 

Your letter handed to Mrs. Foster and received by me. I am .sorry that I did 
not get to talk with you in person but I was suffering with dysentary [sic] which 
struck me before we got there and I was forced to fly back Sunday instead of 
making the trip back with the rest of the boys. 

I note that you are organizing a KKK known as the Ohio Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan and I am sure that you will make a great success there. Since the 
charter of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was revolked [sic] in Ohio 
we can not legally operate there in that name therefore Mr. Morris is operating 
under the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan which is not a chartered organization, 
just an association. I suggest that you confer with some lawyer and see about 
your trade name and comply with the law. 

I find that Ohio is like the rest of the States. Everyone would like to be a 
chief and have no Indians. I suggest that everybody bury the hatchet and start 
over with plenty of Indians. 

Please write me the news and give my regards to your wife and children, 
and, 1 remain, as ever, 
Your friend, 

/s/ James R. Venable 
James R. Venable. 

Mr. Venable, did you write this letter to Mr. Flynn Harvey ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

(Document marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 8" and retained 
in committee files. ) 

Mr. Manuel. Could you explain to the committee your statement 
to Mr. Harvey concerning the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Venable. When I was up there at a rally at Parkie Scott's farm, 
I got sick with ptomaine poison and was late getting there. 

And Mr. Harvey, I understand, arrived there, but I was unable to 
meet with him because I had to go to bed there. And I understood 
from people in and around there that there were applications circulat- 
ing around there. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. I was told that he 
had organized one, or attempted to organize, you know, not for the 
National Association or the National Knights, Inc., but as an in- 
dividual Klan. 

Mr. ]Manuel. What is the meaning of your statement to Mr. Harvey 
that National Knights are no longer legally able to operate and now 
the Kniijhts of the Ku Klux Klan under Mr. Mori:is will operate in 
the State of Ohio. 



3610 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Morris was trying to organize the Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan. Mr. Morris was trying to organize a Ku Klux 
Klan group, probably similar names. 

Mr. Manuel. That is not really my question. Let me rephrase it. 
Is the organization known as the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ac- 
tually a device that is made up by the Klan so that the Klan can do 
business in the State of Ohio ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; as I said, the association and the delegates there 
was under the impression and was under the belief if they could 
use the original name to organize the Klan, it would be better to go 
back to the original name. 

When we got up there, I found out Mr. Harvey had started him 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, you know, and I just wanted to con- 
gratulate the man. There is no connection. I didn't want him to 
feel that I had any hard feelings against him or any Klan group up 
there that was trying to organize. 

He had felt that I had ignored him, and I wanted to let him know 
that I had no ill will against him. If he could organize himself 
a Klan group up there, that was fine. 

But that was no connection with the one of Mr. Morris nor the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. I want to refer to this part of your letter again to 
see if I can approach it in another way : 

Since the charter of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was revolked 
[sic] in Ohio we cannot legally operate there in that name, therefore Mr. Morris 
is operating under the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan which is not a chartered 
organization, just an association. 

Now, my question is : Is this an attempt to circumvent the law in 
the State of Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir; it wasn't any attempt to circumvent any 
law in Ohio because Mr. Harvey had a right to use that name, "Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan," which can be used by any group that wants 
to. Nobody had any jurisdiction or nobody has the right to 

Mr. Manuel. Did you feel that since the charter of the National 
Knights was revoked in Ohio that a new organization, namely, the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan would be the one to recruit and 
organize ? 

Mr. Venable. Not me, because that was Harvey's individual group, 
and I didn't want him to feel tliat I held any malice, and neither did 
Mr. Morris hold any malice. 

Mr. Manuel. I am not speaking of Mr. Harvey's group, Mr. Ven- 
able. I am speaking of Mr. Morris' group. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Morris was trying to organize a group up there 
under his authority as Emperor, which I had nothing to do with it. 

Mr. Manuel. Was his effort really then for the National Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Venbale. No ; it was individual acts to try to get a united Klan 
throughout the United States called the Ku Klux Klan. That was on 
his part there, which I had nothing to do with it other than to help 
any Klan group. 

Mr. Manuel. As far as the State of Ohio is concerned, does the Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan share membership ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3611 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't answer. We got some members that 
originally joined. I don't know whether Mr. Morris has any up there 
or whether Mr. Flynn Harvey has any up there. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Manuel, I w^ill try to make myself clear on that 
letter. 

Flynn Harvey had pulled out. In fact, he couldn't get the Klan in 
the National Knights off the ground. He had pulled out of this orga- 
nization which I helped, and I learned that he was trying to organize 
him a Klan group up there and I was merely congratulating him and 
telling him to try to comply with the laws. It wasn't that he was work- 
ing in conflict with me or Mr. Morris. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, I think the statement in the letter con- 
cerning the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and Mr. Morris' 
operation in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan speaks for itself. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Harvey was not connected with us then when 
that letter was sent, and I was merely trying to keep friendship with 
him. I didn't want to have any hard feelings, and Mr. Morris didn't 
either. 

Mr. Manuel. I understand. 

Mr. Venable, how many public rallies did you attend in the State of 
Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't say, you know. I don't know. I at- 
tended one or two at Parkie Scott's, maybe three. 

Do you mean Klan rallies ? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Venable. I made one to Brunswick and one to Lodi. 

Mr. Manuel. To the best of your knowledge, did the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan realize any money as the result of those 
rallies? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir; I believe you have my books there, and it 
shows, I believe, we got from Ohio — Mrs. Scott paid me, I think $600 
at one time. She paid $400 and two or three other times, all of the 
money I got out of Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. Where is the money you got out of Ohio ? 

Mr. Venable. The Klan got it, the National Knights. I don't know 
from what rallies it was obtained. I obtained these sums of moneys 
at various times, you know. You have the records that shows it. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee how much money you 
realized out of the operation ? 

Mr. Venable. I didn't realize anything out of it. It was a dead 
expense to me going up there, going to and from, flying, sometimes 
using my time. 

Mr. Manuel. How many members did the National Knights get 
as a result of those rallies ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. The only records I have are the sums 
of moneys I mentioned there. 

Mr. Manuel. Didn't any of the Klan organizers in Ohio report to 
you in any way, shape, or form ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir ; I haven't had any report from any of them 
except the financial report which I stated to you which the books show. 



3612 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

I was sent in 1964 from Ohio, I believe, $135.60 and some others from 
other sources. 

Mr. Manuel. Does your organization rely on organizers to go out 
and pass out applications and get members and is this done, Mr. Ven- 
able, without your knowledge ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I rely on the people in the neighborhood to 
try to get neighbors. That is the only thing we can rely on. 

Mr. Manuel. How do you find out who your members are ? 

Mr. Venable. You only find out wno tne memuers are wnen you 
have an organized Klavern, you know. You can find out the numbers 
of it when you go in there. Klaverns are organized and they have 
certain members in it. 

Mr. Manuel. What has happened to all of the people who have 
filled out applications and taken the oath in the State of Ohio? You 
tell me that you have no knowledge of any organized Klavern in 
Ohio. 

Mr. Venable. I don't know how many has been initiated except the 
two occasions. Some were initiated on one occasion at Parkie Scott's, 
where I was present. There was the time I was sick. I didn't actually 
witness that, and then another occasion at Lodi, but I had nothing to 
do with the processing the applications. They were done by Mrs. 
Scott. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, are there any members of the 
National Knights in Ohio ? 

Mr. Venable. That I couldn't say. I never got a financial report. 
The number of applications has never been sent to me. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, it is possible that you have a certain 
number of members in the State of Ohio of which you have no knowl- 
edge of their existence or activities? 

Mr. Venable. It could be; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that the case with the State of Ohio? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. I presume it could be, you know. 
I don't know. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that also the case with respect to the State of 
Georgia concerning the National Knights? 

Mr. Venable. Well, I don't know how many members we got there. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know where the Klaverns are located ? 

Mr. Venable. The only ones where they got a Klavern is at Hart- 
well and a Klavern located at Tucker, Georgia. We haven't got but 
very few there. 

Mr. Manuel. Who in the State of Georgia 

Mr. Venable. And there is a small one over at Centre, Alabama. 

Mr. Manuel. What is the membership of the Klavern over at 
Centre, Alabama? 

Mr. Venable. That I don't know, I haven't had a report. I think 
$22 from over there. 

Mr. Manuel. Could you tell the committee how many members 
the National Knights have ? 

Mr. Venable. I couldn't tell you. That is what I would like to 
find out myself. If there are any Ohio ones I would like to find out, 
and how many is in Alabama and Georgia. 

Mr. Manuel. How do you detennine whether a person is a member 
of the National Knights or not ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3613 

Mr. Venable. The only way I can do is talk to them in person or if 
he sends me his application and I see him initiated, I know he is a 
member. 

Mr. Pool. You are the Imperial Wizard, but you don't know what 
your Imperial Kingdom is. 

Mr. Venable. That is right. That is what I am trying to find out. 
You know organizing a Klan, the competition is just like a filling sta- 
tion, you know, it is strong. There is so many of them that try to 
spring up and die down overnight, and membership shifts from one 
Klan to another. 

Mr. Manuel. You say you are trying to fuid out what the situation 
is within your own Klan group. To whom would you go to find out? 

Mr. Venable. To some of the people in Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlio are those people ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Scott and his wife. 

Mr. Manuel. Who else ? 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Morris, if he has anything to do with it, and I 
have been trying to find out, and Mrs. Witte — she claims that she 
hasn't got any membership list. 

Mr. Manuel. "Wlio would you go to in the State of Alabama to find 
out what the situation is as far as the National Knights are concerned? 

Mr. Venable. I would go to a Klavern. 

Mr. Manuel. What individual would you talk to ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. I would have to go there and see who 
the officers are. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any organizers in the State of Alabama ? 

Mr. Venable. To my loiowledge, I don't know of any personally 
unless Mr. Holcombe went over there and tried to organize. I know 
he went over there. I attended one Klavern there one time. 

Mr. IVIanuel. Does that Klavern have a charter ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you sign the charter ? 

Mr. Venable. I signed the charter. 

Mr. Manuel. In whose name did you sign the charter? 

Mr. Venable. I signed my name to it. I think it is called the Cen- 
tre Klavern. 

Mr. Manuel. Does this Klavern have officers ? 

Mr. Venable. It had home officers over there the night I was over 
there, but I met all of them but I couldn't tell you their names. 

Mr. Manuel. And you have never had a written record as to who 
they are ? 

Mr. Venable. Never have had the written record. I have been 
trying to find out the membership in every Klavern, who is a member 
and who is not a member. 

Mr. Manuel. "When there was a Klavern in Barnesville, did that 
Klavern have a charter ? 

Mr. Venable. I never did have knowledge there was a Klavern in 
Barnesville. That is what I have been trying to check on. I was told, 
I believe by you, that they had a charter. Maybe that was one of the 
cliarters organized by Mr. Holcombe, but who the members are I don't 
know. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever give Mr. Holcombe any blank charters ? 



3614 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. I gave him two or three charters. 

Mr. Manuel. Signed in blank ? 

Mr. Venable. I think so ; yes. 

Mr. Manuel. What was his responsibility with regard to those 
charters? 

Mr. Venable. Try to get Klaverns set up. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he ever report to you 

Mr. Venable. Never had any report from him whether he had one 
or two or how many is in the Klavem. 

Mr. Pool. Do you ever get mixed up and get in the wrong Klan 
when you are going around trying to find these Klaverns ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; I never have got mixed up that way. 

Mr. Pool. You know where to find the Klaverns ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir; I don't. 

Mr. Pool. How do you know they are not United Klans when you 
go in them ? 

Mr. Venable. As I attend — I never have attended any except this 
one and over at Tucker, I mean, whether it was actually operating. 

Mr. Clawson. How would you know the difference? 

Mr. Venable. We have a National password, a password, you know. 

Mr. Clawson. And they don't have the same one you have ? 

Mr. Venable. No ; I don't know whether they have or not. 

Mr. Clawson. They could? 

Mr, Venable. They could have. 

Mr. Clawson. So they could give you the same password ? 

Mr. Venable. They may have the same. The different Klan groups 
have a password. Whether they are similar or the same as ours, I 
couldn't state. We try to change them every year. 

Mr. Clawson. How do you get to your people if you don't know 
any of them ? How would your people know ? 

Mr, Venable. It is up to the officers of that Klavern. It is up to 
the Imperial Wizard to give the passwords to the EC's. He is the 
president of the Klaverns or chapter. It is up to him to pass it on 
to each individual member. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you know all of these various people through 
your various Klaverns? 

Mr, Venable. As I said, I haven't had the opportunity to visit but 
two. 

Mr. Clawson. I didn't ask yiou if you visited with them; I asked 
you if you knew them. 

Mr. Venable. No. 

Mr. Pool. When is the last time you changed the password ? 

Mr. Venable. We changed the password last year. 

Mr. Pool. How did you get it out to the members ? 

Mr. Venable. I gave it to some of the people that meet out at 
Tucker. Sometimes they come from various — like Ohio. They come 
out there, 

Mr, Pool, And they pass it on to other exalted cyclops ? 

Mr. Venable. When they are initiated, it is up to them to com- 
municate that password. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you devise the password and the changes your- 
self? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3615 

Mr. Venable. Sometimes it is suggested, you know, by some of the 
members or the leaders. 

Mr. Clawson. Who makes the final determination ? 

Mr. Venable. It is up to me to make the final determination. 

Mr. Clawson. You are the final deteraiination? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. "^^Hiat are some of the passwords you used in the past ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, "Caucasian race." 

Mr. Pool. What are some more ? 

Mr. Venable. "Wliite man,'' things like that. 

Mr. Claw^son. You indicated certain handclasps. Have they been 
taken from any other fraternal organizations or secret organizations? 

Mr. Venable. Well, the handshake, and so forth, is the ones the 
Klans always use, the old Klans. 

Mr. Clawson. They never changed that ? 

Mr. Venable. No; not to my knowledge. Some groups may have 
changed it, but as far as I am concerned 

Mr. Pool. If a man comes to a Klavern and gives the wrong pass- 
word, does he get in ? 

Mr. Venable. He is challenged at the door if the Klaveni is in 
session. If he happens to be in there before it opens and you go 
around and take up the password from all of them and he hasn't got 
the password, he may be a visitor from some other Klavern or some 
other Klan group. Then somebody in there has to vouch for him or 
her, you know, as being a Klansman from so and so. 

Mr. Pool. They don't have any kinds of a card or identification? 

Mr. Venable. Do you mean w^hat Klan has it ? 

Mr. Pool. Does the Klansman have a card or any kind of identifica- 
tion? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; he would have if he has been initiated and a 
member of a Klavern, he would have a card. 

Mr. Pool. Would you accept that ? 

Mr. Venable. They would accept that if it was issued by that 
Klan organization, you know, if he had it, just like any other member- 
ship card. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you carry a membership card yourself ? 

Mr. Venable. Well, no; I don't carry one myself because I would 
usually know somebody if it is a Klan group that I am friendly with. 
They would know me, and I would know some of the leaders and I 
wouldn't have any trouble. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Venable, with the knowledge that you have testi- 
fied to this afternoon with regard to your National Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan, I would like to ask you how it is possible for you, as 
Imperial Wizard of the organization, to control your membership ? 

Mr. Venable. We are trying to process them where we can use 
numbers, you know. 

Mr. Manuel. I am not talking about controlling in that sense. 

Mr. Venable. I am telling about the membership. 

Mr. Manuel. I am talking about controlling the activities of your 
members. In other words, your testimony as I understand it 

Mr. Venable. It is up to the EC's. It is up to the leadership to tell 
them the do's and the don'ts. 



3616 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Mantjel. You, as Imperial Wizard, have testified that you don't 
even know who the EC's are in some cases. 

Mr. Venable. That is right, because we are not active. We have 
been trying to build the Klan, National. We have been, I would say, 
inactive to a certain extent. 

Mr. Manuel. You have members today and you have had members 
in the past. How do you control the activities of those members as the 
Imperial Wizard ? 

Mr. Venable. Say Mr. Flynn Harvey is a Dragon. We would talk 
with him and meet with him, and it is up to him to tell the members 
of those Klaverns the do's and don'ts. If you have a rally w^here Klan 
members attended, it was up to some speaker, if he is a member of the 
organization, to tell the people what to do and what not to do and try 
to keep out of trouble, keep them out of trouble. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you have a list of those do's and don'ts anywhere ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. We don't have a list of them, but I know 
what they are. 

Mr. Clawson. Could you make those available to this committee? 

Mr. Venable. I can't. I don't have it printed. 

Mr. Clawson. Do you have them in your mind ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes ; I can do that. 

Mr. Clawson. Could you make that available to us ? 

Would you want to say what some of the do's and don'ts are? 

Mr. Venable. I am speaking of the National now. Our policy is 
not to interfere in any race, color, or creed and to use no violence, law 
violators. 

Mr. Pool. You say your policy is to use no violence. 

Mr. Venable. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. How do you control your individual exalted cyclops 
throughout the country on that point right there ? 

Mr. Venable. There is no way ; if he wants to violate the law and 
if he violates it, he would be banished or tried, you know. 

Mr. Pool. How many have you banished ? 

Mr. Venable. How^ many have we banished ? The only one that I 
know we have banished — I mean we didn't — I mean Mr. Flynn Harvey 
and them that was up there they banished this man w^ho testified, Mr. 
Bob Stephens. 

Mr. Pool. You now tell this committee that all of your Klaverns are 
practicing no violence ? 

Mr. Venable. We try to tell all Klansman whether they belong to 
ours or not. 

Mr. Pool. But you have no way to check on whether they are follow- 
ing this philosophy ? 

Mr. Venable. Other than from word to word or some of the leaders 
or some of the Klansmen there, you know. If we have know of it, 
if we get knowledge of it through the law enforcement agency there, 
we try to stop those members. We tell them not to do these things. 

Mr. Pool. How do you get the knowledge from the law enforce- 
ment agencies? 

Mr. Venable. Sometimes you read it in the papers. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any members who belong to law^ enforce- 
ment agencies? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3617 

Mr. Venable. None that I know of, none to my knowledge. But 
I know a lot of local law enforcement officers personally if tliey is 
anything wrong down there around Stone Mountain or Tucker, 
Georgia 

Mr. Pool. Does that include burning crosses ? 

Mr. Venable, "V^Hiat do you mean by burning crosses? 

Mr. Pool. Do they come and tell you what information they have 
about a cross being burned ? 

Mr. Venable. Some time you hear about a cross being burned, but 
my policy is, and I tell all, never to burn a cross unless it is a public 
rally, you have permission from the owner that owns that property. 
That is the only time. 

Mr. Pool. Do all of your exalted cyclops follow that policy ? 

Mr. Venable. I don't know. I hope they do. 

Mr. Pool. You have no way of controlling that ? 

Mr. Venable. No; you can't keep people from violating the law. 

Mr. Pool. You can remove them from office. 

Mr. Venable. That is right, and if anybody violates the law we 
remove him from office. 

Mr. Pool. If you knew that was his philosophy, wouldn't it be a 
good idea to remove him before any violence ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes; and it is the duty of any Klan leader if any- 
body -sdolates the law to remove him or try him for doing something. 

Mr. Pool. Isn't it your duty as Imperial Wizard to see to it that 
your organization has that philosophy, and you say that is your 
philosophy ? 

Mr. Venable. That is right. 

Mr. Pool. What are you doing about that ? 

Mr. Venable. I have written letters around and talked to people 
not to violate any of these civil rights laws; that it is a crime to ^et 
out here. And I try to make myself plain when I speak at these rallies 
not to do these things. You can't do it and get by with it. Whether 
you like it or not, civil rights or any other law, we have to recognize 
it is the law of this country. 

Mr. Clawson. You indicated that you had this policy of nonvio- 
lence. I asked you about the do's and dont's. I believe you said you 
had been a member of the Klan from 1924, in one capacity or another. 
What have these Klans done, to your knowledge, that has been con- 
structive, that has actually helped the community during all of this 
time, that you would like to point to, some constructive project or 
program you feel they have completed ? 

Mr. Venable. I have documents to show that the old Klan in 1923 
built hospitals and built buildings and done charity things. 

Mr, Clawson. That was before you were a member? 

Mr. Venable. Since 1924 I know the Klan has helped in many ways, 
in Christmas gifts, unfortunate people. I understand up in Ohio, 
I don't know if it is our group or some group there, carried around 
Christmas baskets to needy people and I understand that they carried 
it to an old colored woman's home there with some children and pre- 
sented it. That is what I w^as told. 

Mr. Clawson. Is this the reason the Klan was organized ? 

Mr. Venable. No, sir; this Klan here, the day Klan, it was organ- 
ized first — our oath and our duty is we owe allegiance to God first. 



3618 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Second, we owe allegiance to our country and, third, to our family 
and, fourth, to the Klan organization. That is our allegiance. 

Mr. Clawson. I owe allegiance to several of these, but I don't need 
the Klan for that. 

Mr. Venable. There have been secret, fraternal organizations in 
this country for many years. 

Mr. Clawson. I understand this, but I was trying to see the pur- 
pose of it. 

Mr. Venable. The purpose of it is to advocate the separation of 
the races, to keep the nigger race black and the white race white, but 
give them equal protection of rights and laws. 

Mr. Clawson. I have no other questions. 

Mr. Manuel. You stated, to your knowledge, you had never re- 
ceived a report from Ohio stating in any way what the activities of 
your klavems were in the State of Ohio, yet we have a letter from 
Mr. Flynn Harvey addressed to yourself, an undated letter, but it 
reads as follows : 

Dear Mr. Venable : 

I cut this clipping out of this mornings newspaper, and thought you would 
be interested in it, hope this meets with your approval. I have proved that this 
State Sen. Anthony O. Calabrese is another lying Democrate [sic]. 

I would like to ask your advice on a matter we have here, concerning this 
Columbus Klavern. A couple of fellows here in the Klavern. keep after me to 
select State Officers to work with me, they are Mr. W. K. Smith and Chuck 
Gilliam who keep after this subject all the time, in my oppinion [sic] I don't 
as yet have the fellows I want in mind for this job, and they certainly are not 
these two fellows. These are good people but the kind that like to stir up 
descention [sic] in the group, if you know what I mean. 

Have you had the chance to write or call Mr. Martin in Cleveland, Ohio as of 
yet? I'm very ancious [sic] to know what is going on. Drop me a line when you 
liave the time. 

Also have you heard anything from Mrs. Whitie [sic] Or Mr. Head from the 
Cinni. Area? I haven't heard a thing, we well [sic] have to get the applications 
straighted [sic] out. I well [sic] go to Cinni. before long if I don't here [sic] 
anything from them. 

We have had a lot of mail from the Cleveland area, which has all been very 
favorable, I'm going to set up some meeting with them people up there befor [sic] 
very long, they sound like what we have been looking for. 

I well [sic] try to keep you informed of what is going on up here. Thanks a 
lot for everything. 
Yours Truly 

/s/ Flynn R. Harvey. 
Flynn R. HARVEry. 

Mr. Pool. Who signed the letter ? 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Flynn Harvey. 

Mr. Venable. I received this letter from Mr. Harvey, but I have 
not yet had any report on this man Martin — I don't know who he is 
talking about, or Head. I may have met him, but I have not had any 
financial report from Mr. Harvey. 

(Document marked "James Venable Exhibit No. 9" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever asked him for one ? 

Mr. Venable. I have asked him for one, and he said he is getting it 
up, but I never got a report. I tried to get a report from Mrs. Witte 
and Mr. Harvey to determine who are and who are not members there, 

Mr. Manuel. I go back to my original question, Mr. Venable; you 
as Imperial Wizard under this system, I don't see how you could 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3619 

possibly control members of the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan. 

Mr. Venable. I am trying to do my best to control them to see what 
we got np there and who we got up there in Ohio and other places. 
It is pretty hard. 

Mr. Manuel. How long have you been trying to find out? 

Mr. Venable. For the past year, I have been trying to find out. 

Mr. Clawson. Mr. Venable, I am going to go back to your letter, 
and it is your letter and not Mr. Butterworth's, and I want to call 
attention to two or three things in this letter and actually quote from 
it (James Venable Exhibit No. 4.) : 

You are being forced to support a religion, which is unconstitutional, and which 
is made up of anti-Christian rabbis and synagogues. This you do with every 
purchase of Kosher-Jewish food, in both Christian and Jewish stores. 

This tithe, or tribute, is filched from your pocket without your knowledge or 
consent, for hardly one person in ten thousand is aware of the secret coded mark- 
ings. The Jewish racket of continuous inspection and super\'ision is only a 
scheme to force Jewish employees on a manufacturer, and throw our own Chris- 
tians out of a job. Christian plants have been forced to pass the costs of this 
blackmail along to you, the ultimate consumer, and bar their own race. 

After study of these lists, you will realize that it is the most diabolical plot 
ever conceived by these leeches of mankind. Nothing in the most barbaric days 
of history approaches it, in the exaction of cruel tribute. We say to every 
Christian American, without rudeness. — Smash the slave tribute, or forever be 
silent about Jew Communism and Jew Bankers ruling the world. 

Resolve to fight with every penny you spend. Buy and distribute these lists 
to every Christian home. Get off your lazy seat and send a big fat check to the 
ONE outfit that is going to KILL this blackmail. * * * 

This is your letter. Among all these firms — and I know some of 
them personally and I have some personal contact with the people 
involved — the Wong's ChinesQ Foods — these are areas close to me and 
in my district, Wliite Star Tuna Company. With a name Wong, I find 
a little difficulty. You also list Sunkist, Superior Honey, Sanna Dair- 
ies, Hunt Foods, Snowdrift Products, Star-Kist Tuna, Milani Foods, 
Arizona Can Foods, Smart & Final Iris, Breast O' Chicken, and then 
you list all the Kraft and General Foods and Post and Kellogg's and 
all these others in this group. 

Frankly, I am offended by a letter of this kind. I just don't believe 
it is proper and within the province of an organization to write a let- 
ter like the one written here, and I hope that you would want to retract 
a letter like that if it has been sent out. 

Mr. Venable. I left that up to Mr. Butterworth to check these items 
and these companies, and he got a book and made the check. 

Mr. Clawson. Even the wording of the letter seems to me rather 
harsh. 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; it probably is pretty harsh. 

Mr. Clawson. It is pretty harsh ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You don't wish to retract the language used ? 

Mr. Venable. I said I w^oulcl like to retract it. 

Mr. Pool. At this time do you do so ? 

Mr. Venable. Yes, sir ; I retract it and I apologize, you know. 

Mr. Clawson. I don't believe letters like this should be given wide 
distribution. 

Mr. Pool. Did you write this letter, or did someone else ? 



3620 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Venable. Mr. Biitterworth did. 

Mr. Clawson. But it is your signature ? 

Mr. Venable. That is one of the reasons we were at odds. He was 
too bitter-tongued, and that is the reason we parted the ways because 
it was a losing proposition of me financing the thing. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Venable, your subpena will be continued until March 
1. We will not take the time to examine the documents today which 
you presented, but we will inform you of a further appearance. 

I remarked yesterday that perjury had been committed before this 
committee. My comment was based on what appeared to me to be 
direct conflict in testimony received then and on previous occasions. 

I have requested the stafl' to make an analysis of the testimony in 
question. If analysis confirms what I believe to be true, and I think 
it will, it is my intention to recommend to the committee that this 
testimony be referred to the Department of Justice for the purpose 
of initiating legal action against the offenders. 

The committee will stand in recess until next Monday morning at 
10 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 5 p.m., Tuesday, February 15, 1966, the subcom- 
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Monday, February 21, 1966.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1966 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 

PUBLIC HEARINGS 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
as reconstituted for the February 21 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, 
at 10:45 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, 
Washington, D.C, Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, 
chairman ; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia ; and John H. Buchanan, 
Jr., of Alabama.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Bu- 
chanan. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M, Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, 
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

The Chair wishes to read a letter from the chairman appointing 
the subcommittee : 

To : Mr. Francis J. McNamaba 

Director, Committee on Un-American Activities 

February 17, 1966. 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby 
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities consisting 
of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner and 
Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hearings in Wash- 
ington, D.C. on Monday, February 21, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution 
adopted by the Committee on the 30tli day of March. 196-5, authorizing hearings 
concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the 
United States. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 
If any member indicates his inability to sen-e, please notify me. 
Given under my hand this 17th day of February, 1966. 
/s/ Edwin E. Willis 
Edwin E. Willis 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities 

Mr. Manuel, call your next witness. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this time 
Mr. Richard Hanna. 

3621 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 10 



3622 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about 
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Hanna. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD JOSEPH HANNA 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, would you please state your full name for 
the record ? 

Mr. Hanna. My name is Kichard Joseph Hanna. 

Mr. Manuel. And Mr. Hanna, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I am not. 

Mr. Manuel. At this time, I would like to ask you, Mr. Hanna, 
whether you desire counsel ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you understand, Mr. Hanna, that at any time dur- 
ing your testimony, if you should desire counsel, you have the right 
to communicate that desire to the chairman of the committee, and ar- 
rangements will be made for you to obtain counsel ? 

Do you understand that ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I do. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you also understand, Mr. Hanna, that under the 
Constitution of the United States, and under the fifth amendment of 
that Constitution, you have the right, if you so desire, to refuse to 
answer any question which you honestly feel might tend to incriminate 
you? 

Do you understand that, sir ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I do. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, have you been provided, have you been furnished 
a copy of the chairman's opening statement, which Mr. Willis made 
in October of 1965, prior to the start of the hearings into the KKK? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And have you become generally familiar with the con- 
tents of that document? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, are you appearing before the committee 
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you at 216 East 6th 
Street, Newport, Kentucky, at 8 :30 p.m. on the 16th day of Februar}' 
1966, by committee investigator Neil Wetterman? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, when and where were you born, sir? 

Mr. Hanna. I was borned in Dayton, Kentucky, April 19, 1943. 

Mr. Manuel. And where do you currently reside? 

Mr. Hanna. I live the 216 East 6th Street, Newport, Kentucky. 

Mr. Manuel. And how long have you lived at the residence, sir? 

Mr. Hanna. Twenty-three years, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your 
educational background? 

Mr. Hanna. I have an eighth-graded ; went to Ohio Military [Acad- 
emy], Cincinnati, North College Hill, Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. And since the year 1960, would you give tlie commit- 
tee a brief resume of your employment background? 

Mr. Hanna. I am employed as maintenance man, busboy, waiter, 
regular restaurant work. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3623 

Mr. Manuel. Are you currently employed ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I am not. 

Mr. Manuel. And how long have you been out of work, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. Three months. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, have you ever been arrested ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I have. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee when and where the 
first arrest occurred ? 

Mr. Hanna. The first arrest occurred in Arlington Heights, Ohio, 
in August of 1964. The circumstances was a neo-Nazi Ku Klux Klan 
demonstration in front of Clarence Brandenburg's radio-TV repair 
shop. Mr. Brandenburg was arrested for alleged Ku Klux Klan ac- 
tivities, and I was there to protect him and his rights. 

Mr. Manuel. And how many persons took part in this demonstra- 
tion, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Brandenburg and myself . 

Mr. Manuel. And you said it was a neo-Nazi Ku Klux Klan 
demonstration ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain that statement a little bit 
better for the committee ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, I was a member of the American Nazi Party, 
U.S. Stormtrooper Division, Cincinnati. Mr. Brandenburg was iden- 
tified as an imperial officer in the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. The man was arrested, and due to a demonstration that some- 
one held in Cincinnati, they seized different articles belonging to 
the Klan in his shop, and rightwing extreme literature. 

The man — I, at that time, still to a certain extent, think the man 
was in his rights in having this stuff, and I was there to protest this 
and to protect Mr. Brandenburg, because his life has been threatened 
by enemies of our cause. 

Mr. Manuel. Now under what charge were you arrested ? 

Mr. Hanna. The charge was disorderly conduct. 

Mr. Manuel. And what was the disposition of that case? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, I went to trial, after the first continuance, I was 
convicted by this Mr. Englander and Mr. Cook, Mr. Cook being the 
judge and Mr. Englander being the prosecutor. These two men found 
me guilty. I was fined $75 and court costs for disorderly conduct. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you spend any time in jail on that charge? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Was that the first time you were ever arrested? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Since that time, were you arrested again ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please describe for the committee the cir- 
cumstances under which you were arrested for a second time ? 

Mr. Hanna. This was at a Ku Klux Klan rally in Sanford Town, 
which is a part of Kenton County, Kentucky. This is a National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan rally, held on private property, right off 
the road. A reporter from WCPO, which is a news station, TV sta- 
tion in Cincinnati, came on the property, which he was not invited. A 
security guard — I was acting as a security guard for the Klan — asked 



3624 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

him to leave. The man shoved the security guard, and a fight oc- 
curred. This man was beaten to a certain extent. 

The man next day came to the rally grounds, arrested myself and 
another man for the assault. We were tooken to the Kenton County 
jail and booked on assault and battery. 

(At this point Representative Weltner entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. JVIanuel. And what was the disposition of that case, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. This former FBI man who is the judge, Mr. Nelson, 
found me guilty — or rather, dropped the charges from assault and 
battery to disorderly conduct and found me guilty. I was fined $112.00 
and court costs and spent 1 day in the Kenton County jail. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlien did their rally take place, Mr. Hanna? 

Mr. Hanna. It took place somewhere in September, I believe, of 
'65. I can't think of the exact date. It was somewhere in September. 

Mr. Manuel. All right. 

Now who were the other individuals who were with you when this 
arrest took place ? 

Mr. Hanna. People that was involved, you mean the people that 
was involved in the beating? 

Mr. Manuel. All right, we will take it from there. Who was in- 
volved in the beating ? 

Mr. Hanna. The people that was accused of the beating with Mr. 
William Green, Mr. Barney Ross, and myself. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know at that time that Mr. Green and Mr. 
Ross were members of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Were you, yourself, a member at that time ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you Imow that at that time that Mr. Green and 
Mr. Ross were members of an organization known within Klan groups 
as the Black Shirts ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any knowledge whatsoever at that time 
of the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Manuel. All right. 

Now, Mr. Hanna, have you ever been under the care of a psychia- 
trist? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been in a mental institution or a mental 
hospital ? 

Mr. Hanna. Unfortunately not. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, are you acquainted with a person named 
EloiseWitte? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I am. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee when and where 
you first met Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Hanna. I met Mrs. Eloise Witte in January of 1965. 

Mr. Manuel. And how did you meet Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Hanna. At that time, I was no longer with the American 
Nazi Party and I was seeking an organization to join, so I heard of 
the National States Rights Party. I called its office in Cincinnati 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3625 

and I spoke to Mrs. Witte, and she invited me to her house for a dis- 
cussion about the organization, about joining. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, before we proceed with that, would you please 
tell the committee when you first joined the American Nazi Party? 

Mr. Hanna. I joined the American Nazi Party in the year 1959. 

Mr. Manuel. And did you hold any office in the American Nazi 
Party? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee the office or of- 
fices which you have held within that organization ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I was a Storm Leader of Ohio and deputy 
commander of the American Nazi Party, Cincinnati Division, U.S. 
Stormtroopers. 

Mr. Manuel, What was that last office ? 

Mr. Hanna. U.S. deputy commander, U.S. Stormtrooper Division, 
Cincinnati. 

Mr. Manuel. You were deputy commander of the U.S. Storm- 
trooper Division for Cincinnati, Ohio. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And how long did you hold that office, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. Approximately a year. 

Mr. Manuel. One year ? 

Mr. Hj^lNNa. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And did you have that office when you terminated 
your membership in the American Nazi Party ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee when you termi- 
nated that membership in the American Nazi Party ? 

Mr. Hanna. Let's see. ShortlybeforeDecember, sir, of '65. 

Mr. Manuel. Shortly before December of '65 ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now how did you first contact Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. At the States Eights Party, by phone. 

Mr. Manuel. And what were the main points of that conversation, 
your first conversation with Mrs. Witte, at that time ? 

Mr. Hanna. I told her on the phone that I was interested in joining 
a sincere, white Christian American organization. I stood against 
communism, race-mixing, and Jewism and I wanted to join an orga- 
nization worthwhile, doing something against this. 

Mr. Manuel. And what was Mrs. Witte's response to you at that 
time ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Witte commended me for this and said I came 
to the right organization and that she would like to talk to me. 

Mr. Manuel. And did you subsequently talk to Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I did. 

Mr. Manuel. And when was that, Mr. Hanna? 

Mr. Hanna. It was shortly thereafter, 2 weeks after I went out to 
Mrs. Witte's house, made an appointment, spoke to Mrs. Witte in 
private. I asked her the different platform of the organization, the 
different functions of the States Rights Party, and she told me about 
the organization in general. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, was your first contact with Mrs. Witte with 



3626 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

regard to the National States Rights Party rather than the Kii Khix 
Klan? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Mantjel. And you said you spoke to Mrs. Witte in private at 
her home, approximately 2 weeks after you first telephoned her. 

Wliat was the gist of that particular conversation with Mrs. Witte, 
at that time? 

Mr. Hanna. You mean when I talked to her over the telephone? 

Mr. Manuel. No, when you went to her house, about 2 weeks after 
you talked to her over the phone. 

Mr. Hanna. Well, at that time, I went to her house, talked to her, 
she gave me, as a matter of fact, some literature on the States Rights 
Party, some of their publications from Atlanta, Georgia. I gave her 
a donation towards the cause. I left, went home, and read the 
literature. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any other conversation with Mrs. Witte 
with regard to any possible action on your part in this organization ? 

Mr. Hanna. I explained to her — she explained a certain functioning 
of the organization itself, and I said, well, I thought all organizations 
should have more of a uniform. We talked, discussed that, and Mrs. 
Witte asked me exactly what was I looking for in the organization 
itself, and I — we discussed that. She asked me was it — I explained 
I wanted to form a different task force, specific task force for younger 
people, and I said she had too much older people in the organization 
itself. I said I wanted a regular young men force, like stormtroopers. 
And she wasn't so enthused about that. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she use any words similar to these? Did she 
ask you how far you would go for the white race at that time? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. And what did that mean to you, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, it meant to me, would I give my life, would I take 
a life, would I die for the cause. And I explained to lier that the only 
time that I would have to take a life is in self-defense, defending my 
race or my country, and also, as far as giving my life, I would give 
my life for my race or my country. 

Mr. Manuel. At any time during this conversation, did she ask 
you whether you would be willing to kill for the white race? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. At that time, at that first conversation, did she men- 
tion any one individual against whom she would send you, possibly? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. She did not. Now, also with regard to that first con- 
versation, did Mrs. Witte discuss in any way activities of the Ku 
KluxKlan? 

Mr. Hanna. Very little, sir. She told me that she was Imperial 
Empress, or Grand Empress, in the National Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan ; that she was connected with the couple of affiliate Klan 
organizations ; and that if I ever wanted a membership, I could seek 
this membership through her. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she tell you that she was actively recruiting for 
the Ku Klux Klan at that time ? 

Mr. Hanna. She planted the seed of thought that she did not state 
she was recruiting officer. But, actually, anyone who had the appli- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3627 

cation, she said she would sign anyone up that was qualified, so this 
automatically, in my own mind, I took it that she was a recruiting 
officer. 

Mr. Manuel. I see. And at that time, at the time of this meeting, 
did you join the NSRP? 

Mr. Hanna. Not the first meeting ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you submit an application to Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Hanna. Not at the first meeting; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Okay. Did you subsequently submit an application 
to Mrs. Witte either for the National States Rights Party or the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. I did so. 

Mr. IVIanuel. Did you do so for both organizations? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you subsequently become a member of the Na- 
tional States Rights Party? 

Mr. Hanna. I did. 

Mr. Manuel. Are you currently a member of the National States 
Rights Party ? 

Mr. Hanna. I am a member of the organization. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, you stated that you submitted an application 
for the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Is that correct? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To whom did you submit that application ? 

Mr. Hanna. I submitted the application to Mrs. P^loise Witte. 

Mr. Manuel. And at that time, did you pay the required initiation 
fee or klectokon to Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. I paid the application fee. 

Mr. Manuel. How much was that, Mr. Hanna? 

Mr. Hanna. Fifteen dollars. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, subsequent to your giving Mrs. Witte an appli- 
cation and initiation fee, were you at any time after that initiated into 
membership of the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you have^ — do you possess any knowledge as to 
what happened to your application and to the $15 which you gave 
Mrs. Witte? ' ' 

Mr. Hanna. I have heard from different people, and this is only 
hearsay, that tlie money went in Mrs. Witte's pocket. 

Mr. 'Manuel. Now, what was the date, approximately, that you 
gave this application for the National Knights to Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. This was about, oh, let me think liere. Somewhere in 
March, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Sometime in March? 

Mr. Hanna. March, middle of March. 

Mr. Manuel. Middle of March. Had you had any contact with 
Mrs. Witte from the time of your first meeting witli her and the time 
tliat you submitted an application to the National Knights? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I had several meetings. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you briefly tell the committee wliat went on 
in those meetings with Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, we discussed the health, Russian health exhibit, 
which was this Communist health exhibit, wliicli I was bitterly op- 



3628 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

posed to. We discussed that and discussed picketing or ripping up 
the hammer and sickle flag, which was very proper to do, and we dis- 
cussed different tactics in picketing, and so forth, putting out publica- 
tions, recruiting for the States Eights Part-y and the Klan. 

(At this point Mr. Weltner left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Manuel. Now, did Mrs. Witte ever talk to you concerning 
getting you into a certain elite type of squad that she was fonning? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes; I understand that she, without different leader- 
ship, was forming her own elite guard and killer squad. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she use the word to you "killer squad" in refer- 
ring to this? 

Mr. Ha.nna. Yes, she did. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she want you to become a member of this ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes; she said that she wanted me to become a mem- 
ber, but to keep it very quiet from James R. Venables. 

Mr. Manuel. And was this killer squad, to your knowledge, con- 
nected with the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, or any other 
Klan group ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I can't say this. This was Mrs. Witte's private 
project, for the local area. 

Mr. Manuel. Can you identify any other member, or possible mem- 
ber, of such a group ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; because she said you would have to be initiated 
first, before you find this out. 

Mr. Manuel. And what, to your knowledge, was supposed to be the 
purpose of this squad ? 

Mr. Hanna. The opposition to the Black Muslim. 

Mr. Manuel. And how was it supopsed to be opposed to the Black 
Muslim? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, as you know, sir, the Black Muslim have an elite 
guard and guerrilla force, and this was to opposition in race war or 
race riots. And, actually, there is discussed to eliminate different 
Muslim leaders, even before the war itself. 

Mr. Manuel. And these so-called assassination plans, were they 
supposed to be directed to anyone other than Black Muslims, to your 
knowledge? 

Mr. Hanna. This was discussed, but there was never no names 
mentioned. The Muslim Mosque, the Muslim itself, was directed. 
Later in the testimony, it will be brought up again, but right now, at 
this point, we were discussing the Muslim in itsef . 

Mr. Manuel. And you had these conversations with Mrs. Witte, as 
I understand it, around the middle of March of 1965. Is that correct? 

Mr. Hanna. At this time ; yes, sir, all through the period of March, 
from the middle to the end of March. 

Mr. MvNUEL. And at that time, you had also applied for member- 
ship in the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan through Mrs. 
Witte. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now Mr. Hanna, have you ever met a man by the 
name of Daniel Wagner ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. Manuel. When did you meet Mr. Wagner? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3629 

Mr. Hanna. It was Easter Sunday, 1965, at Mrs. Witte's living 
room. I am pretty sure of this, the date. Because I remember bring- 
ing Mrs. Witte and her daughter a, present, and he was sitting there 
in the front room, and the situation was, he had a — and I walked in 
and seen he was sitting there, he had a rifle in his hand, he had his 
sport coat off, he had a shoulder holster on, with a pistol in his shoulder 
holster. 

Mr. Manuel. What type of pistol was that ? 

Mr. Hanna. It was a German Mauser .32 automatic pistol, Second 
World War model. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you inquire as to where Mr. Wagner obtained 
this weapon, or these two weapons ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I did. 

Mr. M^VNUEL. And what did you find out in that regard? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, the first time I asked him, he said he bought it 
from a Mafia, or some gangster up in Detroit. Then later on that 
evening, when he got to know me better, trust me, he took me into his 
confidence and told me he got them from a man in Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he identify that man in Ohio from whom he 
got the gun ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did he tell you at any time that be got this gun 
through the efforts of Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. He said she was instrumental in directing liim to the 
source. 

Mr. Pool. Did he ask her whom to see, to get a gun ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, this was not discussed. I asked the Wagner youth 
where he got the gims. He said he got them from some man in Ohio, 
and Mrs. Witte was instrumental in getting these, making contacts. 
He did not say who the man was, what the man's business was, except 
tliat he was in the gun business. 

Mr. Pool. Did he relate to you the circumstances of lier recommend- 
ing this man? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; he did. 

Mr. Pool. Can you tell us about that? 

Mr. Hanna. She said— Mr. Wagner told me, this is— that Mrs. 
Witte said this man could be trusted, and he would never divulge the 
serial numbers or the purchase to the authorities, if they asked, or to 
anyone else. 

Mr. Manitel. Did Mrs. Witte at any time suggest that you purchase 
a 'weapon? 

Mrs. Hanna, Yes, sir; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. And would you tell the committee under what cir- 
cumstances she made this suggestion to you? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, she asked me, she said I was in quite a few street 
fights in the American Nazi Party, and so forth, and that I was well 
known, since I made the paper, oh, hundreds of times in Cincinnati, 
in all kinds of publicity; she said that I should protect myself at 
night, walking the. streets, and I should own a pistol. She said, as a 
matter of fact, she wanted all of her elite guard carrying pistols. 

Mr. Manuel. And did you at this time purchase a weapon subse- 
quent to your conversation with Mrs. Witte in this regard ? 



3630 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. You did not ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Did she tell you someone to go see about purchasing a 
pistol ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; she did not mention that. She said that they 
had sources, service sources where I could get the guns from. 

Mr. Pool. But she never did get right down to finding out whom 
to see. 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, you just stated that your first meeting 
with Mr. Wagner was at Mrs. Witte's home on approximately Easter 
of 1965. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. This was the first time T seen Mr. Wagner: ves. sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And you stated that Mr. Wagner had in his posses- 
sion openly weapons at this time. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now. during your first meeting with Mr. Wagner at 
Mrs. Witte's home, did you have any conversation regarding any as- 
sassination plot or any possible act of violence ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please t^ll the committee the first such 
conversation ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, the first conversation, Mr. Wagner was sitting 
in her living room, drinking beer, and at that time, I believe the youth 
was partially intoxicated. I say "partially." I would say halfway to 
the point of drunk. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Wagner was ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. And I explained to him that he was waving 
these guns around somewhat carelessly, and to put them away. This 
was a sleeve action rifle. And he explained to me that he was a fire- 
arms expert and that he was a sniper, and I explained to him that I 
did not care to hear this, I wanted the guns put away, and I went to 
Mrs. Witte, and she said, "This is my ace in the hole. This is my boy," 
and she said, "He knows all about firearms." 

He said, "That's right. I am going to go to work, and I am going 
to take care of L.B.J, and Horatio." 

And then he only mentioned Mr. Humphrey once by the name of 
"Horatio," I take it, and then he started talking about killing Lyndon 
Baines Johnson. 

Mr. Manuel. Now what conversation was there, to your knowledge, 
between Mrs. Witte and Mr. Wagner at this point when Mr. Lyndon 
Baines Johnson was discussed ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Witte was actually nonconcerned about it at first. 
I got very upset. I told him, I said, "Well, even saying this could go 
back to the Federal authorities," and I said, "You could be arrested." 

And he said in his slang, he said, "Man, cool it. That's my business, 
not yours." He said, "that's where you separate the men from the 
boys." 

And I said, "Well, I have been involved in a lot of street fights, and 
everything, and it sure takes more to stand up to a crowd against you 
than it does to sit in a window and snipe at the President." 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3631 

And we almost came to blows. Mrs. Witte separated us. She set us 
down. She talked to both of us and said that I shouldn't get upset at 
Mr. Wagner, that Mr. Wagner is going to do some work for her, and 
she said there, Mr. Johnson, if he needed assassination, Mr. Wagner 
could do it. Then she said that "Right now, we are interested in other 
people," And she said that "Martin Lucifer Coon" was one. This is 
Mrs. Witte's words. She said this and then she said that 

Mr. Pool. Speaking of whom? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Witte used the expression, instead of Martin 
Luther King, "Martin Lucifer Coon," a rightwing expression, and she 
also stated there is other people to go, white people, before there was 
anyone else. The colored, that is, are open enemies. She said, there 
is a lot of people that stood behind these organizations that should go. 

And then she got on a discussion of her husband, Mr. Albert Witte, 
who is a recently retired fireman in Cincinnati. And she explained 
that Mr. Witte has caused her trouble, embarrassment, and disgrace, 
amongst the Klan and the States Rights Party. He was a nonbeliever 
and nothing less than a Communist without his hammer and sickle. 

Now, Mr. Witte and I never did get along, sir, and they discussed 
assassinating him. I told them that I did not want nothing to do with 
assassination. And up to this point, even I did not consider the Presi- 
dent, talking about the President, a plot, because they didn't actually 
really plot. But when she started talking, plotting about her hus- 
band, I left the room and I went out to the refrigerator and got myself 
a Coca-Cola and stood there and poured it in a glass and looked in at 
the doorway. And I looked at them and I heard them discuss the 
methods they were going to use to eliminate him. 

Mr. Pool. Eliminate who? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Witte. One was to go across the street in the 
shrubbery and so snipe him with this rifle, and I explained, well, the 
neighbors would see. 

Mr. Pool. Whose idea was this, Mrs. Witte's or whose ? 

Mr. Hanna. That was Mr. Wagner's. 

Mr. Pool. What did Mrs. Witte have to say to that? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Witte didn't comment. I commented and quelled 
it. I was there to quell all this. I said, "You realize the neighbors 
would see you do this." Then tliat killed that, so they thought of a 
couple of ways, and I killed that. 

So Mr. Wagner was thinking up these ways to kill Mr. Witte, and 
they weren't amounting to anything, so Mrs. Witte, with her mind, 
evil mind, I would say, she thought up a way of, she put the "final 
solution," which is a Nazi phrase, and this was to get a Ku Klux Klan 
membership card, identifying him as an imperial officer, getting a 
Klansman's robe, and a revolver 

Mr. Pool. Identifying Mr. Wagner? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Witte. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Witte. All right. 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Witte as an i^nperial officer, getting this robe and 
a pistol, drugging Mr. Witte 

Mr. Pool. What drug were they going to use ? 

Mr. Hanna. I believe the drug was called — if they talked about 
some kind, Mr. Wagner seemed to know all about narcotics, benzedrine. 



3632 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

commonly known as "bennies." He said, a certain amount or quantity 
of this would make Mr. AVitte incoherent to everything and nonaware 
of what was going on. 

Mr. Pool. Did they discuss where they were going to get the drug? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; they did not. Mrs. Witte said, "This is wdiat 
we will do." She said, "We will drug him, we will drive him out in 
Avondale in front of the Black Muslim Mosque. We will put the card 
in his pocket, we will put him in the road.-' 

She said, "Danny, you fire four shots out of six at the door, hand 
him the pistol.'' She said, "He will be standing out there, not know- 
ing what's going on, with a pistol in his hand, and," she said, "the 
Muslims will rip him into ground beef." 

Mr. Pool. The Muslims will do w^hat ? 

Mr. Hanna. Please? 

Mr. Pool. What did she say about the Muslims? 

Mr. Hanna. She said, when the bullets hit the Muslim door during 
the meeting, they would tear out and see him standing there with this 
pistol and they would tear him into gromid beef. 

And that time, I became — well, very ill. Very scared, so I took Mrs, 
Witte, I got into it, then, and I says, "Mr. Stoner is one of your lawyers, 
is he not?" 

And she said, "Yeah, he is." 

And I said, ""WHiy don't you let Mr. Stoner handle this divorce 
matter?" I said, "There is legal ways of doing this." I said, "Cer- 
tainly you will get caught." 

Mr. Manuel. Now, did Mrs. Witte during the course of tliis con- 
versation ever explain why she wanted to kill her husband ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; as I explained, she said he was a menace to 
her cause, that he was a sellout to her cause, that he embarrassed her in 
front of the different dignitaries of the Klans and the States Rights, 
and that she could not no longer take this, and she mentioned some- 
thing about he was planning to declare her incompetent. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she ever tell you that Mr. Witte had threatened 
to have her put in a mental institution ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, she might have. I can't remember, because this 
has been a strain on me, but she said at one time that he was going 
to declare her incompetent. It is very similar. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, you are aware that Mr. Daniel Wagner 
has testified before the committee, and in the course of his testimony, 
he presented to the committee a letter, a 10-])age letter, which he had 
written at the request of Mr. William Hugh Morris. And in a certain 
portion of that letter, Mr. Wagner set forth certain conversations and, 
in this letter lie states that you were a witness to some of these con- 
versations, which, of course, you have just testified to here. 

I would like to read you those portions of Mr. Wagner's letter 
[Bobby Stephens Exhibit No. 5] and his testimony which relate to 
instances in which he says you Avere a witness. 

On the last paragraph of the tliird page, Mr. Wagner states as 
follows : 

On the last evening of my stay in Cin., at the liome of Mrs. Witte accompanied 
by Richard Hanna whom is a late member of the Nazi Party in Kentucky, Mi*s. 
Witte told Richard and myself that her husband had demanded that she drop 
all activity with the K.K.K.K.. and N.S.R.P. and be a mother to her children 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3633 

and a housewife. When she refused he said he would liave lier committed to a 
mental institution since it only took his signature and the signature of a 
doctor. She claimed there was nothing but Jew doctors and Judges in Cin. 
and she would be committed. She also stated her I.Q. was in the 150's which is 
near genius (average 100 — 110) and there was nothing wrong with her, but if he 
(her husband) w^ent through with this, it would be a big step for the Communists 
in hurting the AVhite race. R. Hanna wasn't for killing her husband but for 
beating some sense into his head. Mrs. Witte claimed this was no good and 
wanted him either shot as he left the house for work or in the house to make it 
look like an intruder did this. I thought — ["I" referring to Mr. Wagner's 
thought — ] a good idea was to get him high on narcotics and clothe him in a 
Klan robe, then have him drive into the Black Muslims training center in 
Cincinnatti [sic]. Mrs. Witte agreed, but Richard Hanna w^as hesitant about 
murder so he dropped out of the scene. The next week R. Hanna phoned me in 
Columbus and told me it was called off for a w^hile because J. B. Stoner was 
straightening her husband out legally and Mr. Morris would be down to help soon. 

Now, Mr. Hanna, to your direct knowledge, is that testimony in the 
form of Mr. Wagner's letter substantially correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Most of it is, sir. There is a couple of — it wasn't — 
first of all, let me explain a few things that is wrong. This was Mrs. 
Witte's idea, not Mr, Wagner. Mr. Wagner, as far as criminalwise, 
or evilwise, is not that smart, to think this up. 

As far as calling Mr. Wagner, I called Mr. Wagner and lied to him 
to keep him away, and I said tliat Mr. Stoner, this is a personal friend 
of mine, Mr. Stoner, was going to handle this in a legal manner. 

Now Mr. Wagner believed me, so he stayed away. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you made this call to stop any possible 
action in that regard. Do I understand you correctly ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes; so then I called Mrs. Witte and I told Mrs. Witte 
tliat Mr. Wagner was ill and could not do this, and she said, "you 
should have kept out of this anyway, Richard." 

I said, "He is very sick." I said, "He is very sick and he is not going 
to be able to make it." 

So I tried to get in touch with Mr, Stoner in Atlanta at tlie States 
Rights Party headquarters. I knew if Mr, Stoner knew this, he could 
have stopped it, so I tried to get in touch with Mr, Venables, and Mr. 
Venables was nowhere around, so I took Mrs. Witte's daughter in 
my confidence and I told Mrs, Witte's daughter what went on, and she 
said, well, her mother was sick. She said her mother was making 
enemies amongst the Klan and the States Rights, and so forth. 

Mr, Manuel, Now, to your direct knowledge, did Mrs. Witte ever 
accept an application from Mr. Wagner and a certain initiation fee to 
join the National Kniglits of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Do you know that ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I witnessed this. 

Mr, Manuel. And was this the same day that you met Mr, Wagner 
at Mrs. Witte's home ? 

Mr, Hanna, No, sir; 1 believe it was the last time I seen him there. 
I only met Mr. Wagner twice, and this was the last time, I believe. It 
was the same application which I filled out. Now these were not male 
applications. These were female applications for the ladies' auxiliary. 
Mrs. Witte explained that all she had to do was blot out the word 
"female" and put "male"; there is no dif?'erence in the applications. 

Mr, Mani'el. And that is for the National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 



3634 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Hanna. These were signed National Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mr. Wagner ever submit an 
application for the Dixie Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I can't say this. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And do I understand your testimony correctly in 
that you also heard discussed a possible assassination on President 
Johnson and Vice President Humphrey and Martin Luther King? 
Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, yes, definitely, there was Mr. Johnson's name 
mentioned in regard to elimination. The name "Horatio" was men- 
tioned, but there was no last name. And also, Martin Luther King's 
name was mentioned. And then they got into her husband, and I can 
truthfully say that Mrs. Witte w^as not so sincere about the other 
names, but when it came to her husband, Mrs. Witte w^as very sincere. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, has Mrs. Witte ever discussed with you 
any other possible assassination or means of assassination of another 
President of the United States ? 

Mr, Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee what she said in 
that regard ? 

Mr. Hanna. If they can stand it ; yes, sir. 

Mrs. Witte was talking, after this was all over, and I explained to 
her the mistake she made by mentioning this, and she explained to me, 
she said, "Well, you m.ust realize that I would have killed President 
Kennedy if I had a chance." 

She said, "Before he visited Cincinnati" — this was when the police 
held me in jail while the President visited — she said that "I walked 
around Fountain Square looking for a spot to stand so I could get a 
bead on him." "Bead" meaning an aim. 

She said that "I was going to kill him." And I explained to her 
that the Secret Service would have dropped her before she took two 
steps, and she said, "Well, I had a plan for that, also. I was going 
to ask a woman, I was going to ask a woman who had a baby in her 
arms if I could hold it. I was going to set the baby up on my arms 
and walk into the President shooting." And she said, "them Feds 
wouldn't have dared shoot back at me." 

And then is when I believed she was sick, and that's when I talked 
to her daughter and that's w^hen I saw this woman was destroying the 
Klan, the States Rights Party, and everyone that was connected with 
her. 

Mr. Pool. Did she, or did Mr. Wagner, ever discuss any plans or 
how they could assassinate President Johnson or Vice President 
Humphrey, Martin Luther King? Did they go into details? 

Mr. Hanna. Not at that time, because she thought I wouldn't listen, 
and they knowed if they kept it up, I would have went to the 

Mr. Pool. Did they ever discuss it in your presence ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Now, at the same time that you had these cotiversa- 
tions or heard these things discussed, did Mrs. Witte ever discuss the 
presence of weapons or of any type in Cincinnati, which she had ac- 
cess to ? 

Mr. Hanna, Yes, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3635 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee what her conversa- 
tion was in that regard ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; she said when Mr. Kennedy — no, not Mr. 
Kennedy, excuse me. 

She says, when Martin Luther King arrived in Cincinnati, he spoke 
at the Music Hall. She said there is two gims shipped into town 
from a personal friend of hers. She didn't mention which organiza- 
tion this person represented. She said that one was a German MP-40 
Schmeisser submachine gun and one was an M-1 Gerand gun, .45 
caliber. 

Mr. M\NUEL. And did she tell you that these would be used in any 
possible assassination attempt on Mr. King's life? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. Did she identify the source of these weapons to you ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; she did not. She said they were shipped 
from Ohio. She did not say exactly where in Ohio. She said, "Keep 
this quiet from the Klan and the States Eights." She wanted her 
own special people handling it. 

Mr. Manuel. And did she at that time tell you where these guns 
were stored ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; she said some woman friends of hers had 
these guns. 

Mr. Pool. Some who? 

Mr. Hanna. Woman friends. 

Mr. Pool. How about dynamite? Did she ever discuss storage of 
dynamite ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; she discussed explosives, but not exactly 
dynamite. 

Mr. Pool. Bombs? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Did she say where they were stored ? 

Mr. Hanna. These were not stored. She had a person to make 
these for her. 

Mr. Pool. She had what? 

Mr. Hanna. These were not stored bombs. She had a person to 
make these for her. 

Mr. Pool. Who is the person ? 

Mr. Hanna. The boy's name is Henry Muegel. 

Mr. Pool. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Hanna. M-u-e-g-e-1. 

Mr. Pool. Where does he live ? 

Mr. Hanna. He lives at 560 Howell Avenue, in Clifton. 

Mr. Pool. Any other discussions you had about that that you would 
like to relate to the committee? 

Mr. Hanna, Yes, sir; this boy is here — well, she calls this boy "the 
boy wonder," Henry Muegel, and she said that H.D., these are ab- 
breviated, she said that H.D. could, being a chemist at U.C. and an 
employee, could make her bombs which two drops of it would blow 
the Carew Tower in Cincinnati up. And she also explained to me that 
his boy had advanced knowledge in explosives, since he was a son of 
a professor, and that he was an employee and a student there and that 
this boy could put two chemicals together, that in a certain period 
of time, being mixed, it would blow up. 



3636 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. How old was this boy ? 

Mr. Hanna. This boy is now 20 years of age. His place was re- 
cently raided for rightwdng literature and a printing press. 

Mr. Pool. Did he belong to any organization that she had anything 
to do with ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; he got into the States Rights Party, but they 
later kicked him out. 

Mr. Pool. He was a member at one time ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; Mrs. Witte got him in there. 

Mr. Pool. Who kicked him out ? 

Mr. Hanna. The leader of the States Rights Party, Jerrold Black, 
because this boy w^as half Jewish. 

Mr. IVIanuel. Now you state that Mr. Muegel is a student at the 
University of Cincinnati ? Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; he is. 

Mr. Manuel. To your direct knowledge, has Mr. Muegel done any 
printing for Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; he has. 

Mr. Manuel, I would like to show you a two-page leaflet titled 
"Americans" and, on there, several paragraphs relating to John 
Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles and world government by socialism. 

There are references to J.F.K., L.B.J., and so forth, and so on. On 
the bottom of this is printed "NATIONAL KNIGHTS OF K.K.K." 
and also on the bottom of the second page is printed "NATIONAL 
KNIGHTS OF THE K. K. K." 

I hand you a copy of this, Mr. Hanna, and ask if this is one piece 
of literature or one leaflet which was printed by Mr. Muegel for Mrs. 
Witte and stamped with the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I can't identify this as Mr. Muegel's printing. 
However, you have some which I have supplied you with. 

No, sir; I could not say one way or the other. I can't comment 
on this, sir. I am awful sorry. 

(Document marked "Richard Hanna Exhibit No. 1'' appears on 
pp. 3637, 3638.) 

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Hanna, after your conversation on ap- 
proximately Easter of 1965 with Mr. Wagner and Mrs. Witte, did 
you see Mr. Wagner again ? 

Mr. Hanna. You mean the last time at her house, did I see him 
after that? 

Mr. Manuel. Yes. 

Mr. Hanna. I seen him on television ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge whatsoever concern- 
ing Mr. Wagner's role as a security guard at a Klan rally on Parkie 
Scott's farm in May of 1965 ? 

Mr. IL\NNA. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mr. Wagner act as a security 
guard on that occasion ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Wagner did act as a security guard. 

Mr. Manuel. And how did Mr. Wagner (^et to be a security guard? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Wagner and myself both became security guards 
at that rally through Mrs. Eloise Witte and Parkie Scott. 

Mr. Manuel. Did Mrs. Witte, to your direct knowledge, appoint 
Mr. Waffner to be a securitv jruard ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3637 

Richard Hanna Exhibit No. 1 

AMERICANS 
Its Time you wake up. Do you nknow about the Gommuniat , 
Jrw, and nigger, con^piraey that is threateni^ig you? . The 
conference of foreighn relations or " CP-R." is a sncia 
lict world organization that was created by John Poster 
and Allen Dulles in Paris France in 1919 with the idea 
of world gmveriiient by socialism. Every Presi^^ent since 
1 944 except Truman" who was an accident " has belonged 
to the "G.P.R," such notables as J.F.K." L.B.J. » Ike 
Hubert- Humphery ,Dean ^usk, Arthur Goldberg, a jew, Arthur 
Schelesinger a jew, Prestiantial assitant for science 
and technology, Jerome Wiesner a jew, Dean Acheson, U.S. I. A. 
dirHctor, The late Edwerd R. Marrow, The late Adhlie Steve 
son Mc Bumdy, Willam Mc C Forton, George Fc Ghee, George 
Ball Harlan, Clevelande Prestiantial AdYiser,John Mc Cloy 
and 1400 more in the top positions of our goverment. 
They Are in both parties and they are socialist all. The 
so called social problen in are country is backed by the 
communist jew because it serves aumber of purposes, one 
that it supports the Axon, "The Russians will make good 
propaganda out are aacial problem", and at the same time 
because they contol the press ,raeio, television, Hews media 
our educational institutions and the United Counsel of 
churches. They have brained washed the white Americam adult 
and our childern in tm beliving in the idea- of excepting 
the nigger as and eq-ual^ with the <idea of inter acial 



59-222 O — 67 — pt. u 11 



3638 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Richard Hanna Exhibit No. 1 — Continued 

Whioh will result in- mongrelization and loss of national 
pride individual spirit- and the will to win, we will be 
controlled by a totalitrian goverment will not tellyou 
how our nation emerged from world war 11 victoriousand 
started our decline by appeasement and wars of attrition 
with the idea of not winning which is leading us down the 
road to defeat and communism, you as an american should 
put pressure on your state represenatives ,make them do 
their jobs, and make this county again , '» America Beuti 
ful", Ourgoal is to rid america ot all niggers and ship 
the niggers , and niggerlovers back to Africa with them. 
If L.B.J, has his way, the last genejr9.tion of whites has 
been born.'-'hich means your children growing up today will 
be half nigger and half white. 

P.S. 

Association with ones own kind is a god given right not a 

goverment given right, 

HATIOiUL OIGHTS OF TrfE K,K,K, 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3639 

Mr. Hanna. She did so. 

Mr. Manuel. And to your knowledge, did Mrs. Wagner know that — 
Mrs. Witte know that Mr. Wagner was there armed with a rifle? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; she did, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you also act as a security guard on that occasion? 

Mr. Hanna. I did. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Wagner, as a result of certain activities at 
that rally, was arrested. To your direct knowledge, did Mrs. Witte 
post a bond for Mr. Wagner ? 

Mr. Hanna. This was told me by Mrs. Witte and Mr. Morris, that 
they posted the bond, with Mr. Wagner in the Warren County jail 
for carrying a concealed weapon ; yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever see Mr. Wagner after the rally at Parkie 
Scott's farm ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manltel. Mr. Hanna, have you had other conversations with 
Mrs. Witte regarding plots of acts of violence to be directed against 
certain individuals? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you name for the committee persons who were 
discussed by Mrs. Witte as being possible targets for acts of violence? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. There was quite a few. There was a foot- 
ball player named Clem Turner. 

Mr. Manuel. Clem Turner ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Was he a football player at the University of Cin- 
cinnati ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And did Mrs. Witte discuss with you the desirability 
of having certain acts of violence directed against Mr. Turner? 

Mr. Hanna. She did, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee what, briefly, was that 
conversation ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes. Mrs. Witte lied to me. She said Mr. Turner, 
being a black fellow, at one time attacked her daughter; knowing 
that I was very much in love with her daughter, she knowed that this 
would work me up, and I wanted to beat his head in right then, when 
I heard this. 

Barbara later said that this was false, that there was no such thing 
that happened. 

Mrs. Witte, what she wanted me to do was — I believe the proper 
pronunciation is to beat the boy, castrate him, and 

Mr. Pool. Go a little slower. 

Mr. Hanna. To beat him, castrate him, and to cut KKK on his back, 
stomach, and each side of his cheek. 

Mr. Manuel. And did she discuss with you the means by which 
you were supposed to do this ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. And would you tell the committee what that conver- 
sation involved? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, Mr. Turner playing football hurt his leg, and 
he had a cast on his leg. Therefore, she explained that this was an 



3640 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 

advantage point for his attackers. She appointed — she appointed me 
several men, and she mentioned several names, and I turned her down. 
I said, "What's the matter with Henry Muegel?" 

I said, "He done all of your liandy work. He professes to be in 
sympathy with your causes and everytliing,*' I said, "How come he 
can't go with me ?" 

She said, "You must realize, Henry is my right-hand man," and 
she said, "He has an education to fulfill, and you have nothing to lose, 
and hun being Jewish, he is weakminded and he would talk if he got 
caught." 

She said, "The only reason why I keep him around is he would 
make my bombs, and so on," and she said, "You can do it alone," and 
I explained at that time, by castrating a person, he could have bled 
to death. They do bleed to death. 

I said, it was horrible to cut KKK on a person, and so forth, and 
I said outside of beating him, I would not do nothing. 

So usually, I talked my way out of doing tilings where Mrs. Witte 
tried to involve me, because Barbara and I had this made up, she 
said, "Don't pay no attention to mother,'' because her mother was an 
alcoholic, and that her mother was sick. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, did you have any conversations with Mrs. Witte 
regarding possible acts of violence to be directed against certain civil 
rights leaders in the area of Cincinnati, Ohio? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And would you please describe or identify to the com- 
mittee those persons who are discussed by Mrs. Witte ? 

Mr. Hanna. A woman named Mrs. Green, the NAACP president's 
wife. 

Mr. Manuel. And do you know her first name ? 

Mr. Hanna. Her name is Lucv Green. 

Mr. Manuel. And why did Mrs. Witte— first of all, what did Mrs. 
Witte say with regard to Mrs. Lucy Green ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Green, who is believed to be a white woman, is 
very much in the civil rights move. In Cincinnati, involved a lot, 
and Mrs. Witte dislikes this woman very much. 

Now, I explained to Mrs. Witte at that time I wasn't in sympathy 
with her movement, but there is no use hurting her, and she said, well, 
this is what she wanted me to do. She wanted me to take one of her 
husband's farming uniforms, put it on, take a clipboard and flashlight, 
make it look very official, go to Mrs. Green's house and knock. She 
said, Mrs. Green would open the door, she said, I should shoulder-butt 
her, go in there and cuff her hands behind her back, chloroform her — 
she said, Henry Muegel can mix up the chloroform for me — tear her 
clothes off of her, beat her, and cut KKK on her and also on her 
children. 

At that time, Mrs. Witte Avas under the impression that her children 
were youngsters, but later, Mrs. Witte, through myself, found out 
that her older child was 16, and I talked Mrs. Witte out of that, again. 

Mr. Manuel. Was anyone supposed to accompany you to Mrs. 
Green's house ? 

Mr. Hanna. She did not actually give me a person. No, sir. She 
mentioned Daniel Wagner, and I said, I didn't want nothing to do with 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3641 

this boy, due to his attitude, and so forth, and these guns, I said no, 
and she named a few other men, and I kept putting them oli' and find- 
ing something wrong with them, finding fauk with them somehow. 

Mr. Pool. Now, you testified a while ago that you hadn't talked to, 
or you hadn't seen, Mr. Wagner for some time. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. When was the last time you saw him ? 

Mr. Haxista. The last time I seen him was on TV. The date he was 
arrested. Showed him standing there with police officers, being 
searched. 

Mr. Pool. About when was that? 

Mr. Hanna. That was in May, late. Memorial Day, sir, first day of 
the rally. 

Mr. Pool. You haven't seen him since Memorial Day ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. So your testimony here this morning — you haven't talked 
to him about your testimony here this morning ? 

Mr. Hanna. I beg your pardon, sir ? 

Mr. Pool. You haven't talked to Mr. Wagner about your testi- 
mony here this morning? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now^, Mr. Hanna, did you have any conversations 
with Mrs. Witte w-ith regard to Mrs. Green's husband, Dr. Bruce 
Green, head of the local NAACP in Cincinnati ? 

Mr. Hanna. She didn't really discuss the man too much. She was 
more worried about Mrs. Green than anything. She — Mrs. Green was 
one of her main targets. 

Mr. Manueu. Nor did Mrs. Witte ever discuss with you the possi- 
bility of throwing acid at persons ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. And would you tell the committee which persons were 
involved and the circumstances under wdiich these conversations took 
place? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, first of all, she said, Henry Muegel, this boy she 
calls the boy wonder, was planning to pitch acid on Keverend Shuttles- 
worth, w^ho is a civil rights figure, Martin Luther King's aide, and a 
minister, white minister named Maurice McCracken, and she said 
that this would be a good idea, for me to use acid, since Henry can 
make it at IJ.C, and they can't trace where it was made. 

She said it was boric, or some kind of acid. So later, Mr. Muegel 
talked to me at her house and explained it was sulphur burnt, mixed 
with something, that was simple to make 

Mr. Pool. Did Mr. Muegel know why you Avanted that information? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I don't believe he knowed the nature of it. 
He just simply said he could make it. He was planning on using it on 
these civil rights figures and he thought it was a good idea that I go 
along with Mrs. Witte's idea. 

Mr. Pool. Did he know some of these plans ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; he did. 

Mr. Pool. Can you tell the committee wdiich plans he knew about? 

Mr. Hanna. He was aware of the one concerning Mrs. Green. He 
was aware of the one concernino; Mr. Turner. He was aware of the 



3642 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

one concerning a riot that was planned by Mrs. Witte, a full-stage riot. 
This is what I want to mention next. 

Mr. Pool. Which plans of Mrs. Witte's did Mr. Wagner know 
about ? 

Mr. Hanna. This was after Mr. Wagner was no longer with Mrs. 
Witte. 

Mr. Pool. I see. 

Mr. Hanna. Wlien he was in custody ? 

Mr. Pool. The subcommittee will take about a 2-minute recess. 

(Whereupon, the subcommittee took a brief recess. Subcommittee 
members present at time of recess and when hearings resumed : Repre- 
sentatives Pool and Buchanan.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Proceed, gentlemen. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, you mentioned just prior to our short re- 
cess the fact that Mrs. Witte had mentioned race riots. 

Would you please tell the committee, explain to the committee what 
was involved in these race riots which you mentioned. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; well, as you know, for the last 3 or 4 years, 
there has been savage race riots in Harlem, Los Angeles, and Mrs. 
Witte — at least, I am very opposed to these riots. I think they should 
be investigated, too. 

However, Mrs. Witte talked about starting these riots herself and 
blaming it on the colored, which I think is twice as bad. Now Mr. 
Muegel 

Mr. Pool. Right there, can I ask you this : Did she ever relate to you 
at any time that she participated in any violence by the Ku Klux Klan 
or the States Rights Party ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. She never did tell you that she had actively participated 
in anything like that ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. As far as riots is concerned, she wanted Mr. 
Muegel to print a pamphlet. As you know, in the Harlem riots, there 
was a group called the Negro liberation party, and they printed a 
pamphlet, telling the Harlem freedom fighters how to make a Molotov 
cocktail. 

Mrs. Witte was in favor of Mr. Muegel to print a pamphlet telling 
how to make a Molotov cocktail, putting the half moon and star on 
it, and a lot of Muslim words, and passing this through Avondale, 
Avhich has a mosque. 

Mr. Manuel. And is Avondale is predominantly Negro section of 
Cincinnati ? 

Mr. Hanna. This would be the main Negro ghetto in Cincinnati — 
the largest, that is. And I would say personally, knowing it, that most 
of the youngsters out there, is white police haters, that they respect the 
Muslim. Mrs. Witte is aware of this. These pamphlets were to be 
pasted on walls, put in phone booths and fireboxes, garbage cans, and 
so forth, so the youth there could get ahold of them. 

Now I explained to Mrs. Witte all the police officer would have to 
do is throw a group of them off the corner, and they have tried this. 

Now the pamphlet was supposed to read, and I quote, after killing 
the police, they were supposed to seize the policemen's guns and clubs. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3643 

and so forth, and take over the police cruiser. And it was a horrible 
pamphlet which Mr. Muegel was planning to print up. 

Now Mrs. Witte abandoned this idea. I don't know if I talked her 
out of it. I would like to think so. 

Later, she was instrumental in a couple of small riots in Cincinnati. 
One boy was hit with a shotgun blast at a football game. 

Mr. Manuel. You saj^ Mrs. Witte was instrumental in this. Would 
you explain how she was"? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; she had Mr. Muegl call up a predominant 
place, a place where it was predominately Negro, a kids' hangout, and 
in his white voice, he would say, "If you want to fight us, you meet us at 
the football game." Then Mr. Muegel woulfl call up a place which 
was predominatly white, and tell them in a colored voice, "Man, if you 
want to fight us, you meet us at the football game." 

So they automatically would clash, and Mr. Muegel would be no- 
where around, Mrs. Witte would be nowhere around, and there was 
violence, and there was propaganda for Mrs. Witte, and she would 
run to city council with it, and so forth, and say, "Look at these, 
wiiat they are doing." 

Now a Klan officer almost foimd out about this, and then Mrs. 
Witte was very scared that someone in the Klan would find out about 
this, or someone in the States Eights Party. This is why she used her 
special forces, and she called them 

Mrs. Pool. A little slow^er, 

Mr, Hanna. Instead of calling us the Green Berets, she called us 
the Black Berets. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, your tesimony, as I understand it, 
is she w^ould use certain individuals, not necessarily Klan members, 
with whom she would discuss these things, and it is your testimony 
that she didn't want the Klan leaders to find out about this. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. This is true, especially William Hugh .Morris and 
James R. Venables. I would say, out of the two, Mr. Morris, she did 
not want these, because they w^ould be dismissed by the Klan, she 
claimed. 

She said there is only a couple of Klansmen that she could trust. 
She said that she would rather people would be — she would rather 
feel people out before she signed them up in a Klan, know what 
they do, 

Mr. Pool. Let me ask you this question: Was Mrs. Witte drink- 
ing when she was telling you some of these things ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; it was just the opposite way around. When 
she was drinking, she was nice. When she was sober, she would 

Mr. Pool. Why would she tell you all of these things? Wliy? 
What was the reason ? Why would she tell you all of these things ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, I always called Mrs. Witte my queen, and I was 
devoted to Mrs. Witte. I was very much in love with her daughter, 
and Mrs. Witte provided me with a home that I always wanted. So 
that's why I would go out there every Friday and Saturday and stay, 
because I had no place to go and I found this a good place to be. 

Mr. Pool. Another question that occurs is why didn't you report 
some of these things to the police ? 



3644 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Hanna. Well, mostly on account of Barbara, because Barbara 
explained to me that her mother would be put in jail and that it wasn't 
right for a person that w\as — in Barbara's words — "sick," to be put in 
jail, and she said her mother would never follow through with these 
things. 

I did tell Barbara this, and she said her mother would never follow 
through with these things, and not to go to work and do anything about 
it, and Barbara said, "If you love me, Eichard, you will not do that." 
And I explained to her. Commander Rockwell has instnicted us to co- 
operate, I explained to Barbara this Commander Rockwell, leader of 
the American Nazi Party, always trained us to cooperate with the au- 
thorities, the FBI, and Secret Service, and she begged me, she said, "My 
mother is not altogether well, Richard," and she said, "She don't mean 
half of what she says." She says, "My mother hasn't been sane for 
the last 2 or 3 years." 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

Now, as you know, you are under oath, and the things you are telling 
are in accordance with the oath you took before this committee 

Mr. Hanna. Sir 

Mr. Pool. — that you would tell truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I am telling the truth. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, as a matter of fact, have you not been on 
several occasions questioned regarding certain activities by the Secret 
Service and possibly the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Hanna. Two Secret Service men spoke to me in regards to Mrs. 
Witte one time ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Wliat were the circumstances ? 

Mr. Hanna. This was in regards to the Warren County rally and in 
regards to Mr. Wagner. And they talked to me in regards to dynamite. 
And I explained at that time that I did not know nothing about dyna- 
mite and, as far as I knew, it could be bought about round Cincinnati, 
that you had to buy it near lumber camps, or something. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Hanna, you have testified that there were 
certain conversations concerning leaders of civil rights organizations 
by Mrs. Witte. Were there also conversations involving possible acts 
of violence to be directed against city officials, or judges, in the Cin- 
cinnati area? 

Mr. Hanna, Yes, sir ; there was one judge. 

Mr. Manuel. And who was that judge, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. That is Judge G. S. Heitzler, who is an arch enemy of 
the Klan and the States Rights Party in Cincinnati. 

Mr. Manuel. And what particular act of violence was discussed 
with regard to Judge Heitzler ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mrs. Witte wanted Mr. Heitzler also eliminated from 
his position, and she said she didn't care how she had to do it, illegally 
or legal. And she appointed me executioner, so she had a fellow one 
time to drive me to his house and hand me a pistol, so I throwed the 
pistol back in, the car. I didn't know where I was going. He lives 
about four or five blocks out from Mrs. Witte. 

Mr. Manuel. Wio is that individual, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. His name is Bob Brann 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3645 

Mr. Manuel. Brannon? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. What you said; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And do you know him to be a member of the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Did she ever threaten, or did she ever discuss, violence 
against a leader in the Ku Klux Klan or a member of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. As far as I can truthfully say, I have never 
heard any — I know she hated the leaders and she talked about over- 
throwing the Klan and eliminating the leaders, but she never did men- 
tion no names for assissination plots. 

I know she — from the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Mrs. 
Witte — was connected with the Dixie Klan, and now I know she is 
trying to get United Klans. She is trying to join the United Klans of 
America, Knights of the Ku Klx Klan, and she said she would like to 
overthrow Mr. Shelton, too. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mrs. Witte have any dis- 
agreement with Mr. William Hugh Morris ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; she did. 

Mr. Manuel. Wlien did this come to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Hanna. The night of the rally. I was clearing the grounds. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that Parkie Scott's rally now? Memorial Day 
weekend ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, this is. This is the last night of the rally. 

Mr. Manuel. Okay. Please proceed. 

Mr. Hanna. I went to work and turned in my club for a rifle, and 
I started to walk through the grounds and, coming back, I put the 
rifle bacl^ in the house. Mr. Morris and Mrs. Witte was in there count- 
ing the money and the applications, and so fortli, and I heard them 
fighting. And all through the rally, previous to this, Mrs. Witte was 
irritated, and so was Mr. Morris, at each other, and during the 
money-counting, Mrs. Witte said, "Well, I will tell you one thing," 
she says, "I am not taking peanuts for walnuts," or something like that, 
and Mr. Morris said, "This is my third glass. You are not going to 
get me drunk to get my money," so he took the grip that liad the money 
in it, and chained it to his wrist. 

Mr. Manuel. He chained the case that he was carrying money — 
to his wrist ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Manuel. Is it your testimony that the basis of their disagree- 
ment, to your knowledge, was money? 

Mr. Hanna. Money and power. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you explain that, the power statement that 
you just made? lYliat disagreement existed betAveen Mr. Morris and 
Mrs. Witte concerning power? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, she said Mr. Morris was a thief and he was 
spending the Klan funds upon himself, and Mr. Morris claimed just 
the opposite on her; he said fhat she was a thief and spending the 
funds, and they both discussed this to me, separate occasions. Really 
and truthfully, I can't say w^ho is a thief here, but I know my appli- 
cation fee went some place and I didn't benefit, and I know quite 



3646 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

a few other people that signed up for applications and not benefit 
by them. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, did Mrs. Witte ever participate in a 
demonstration or protest in Cincinnati, where a coffin was used for 
some reason or another? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know what happened, and when was this 
particular protest or demonstration in Cincinnati, where the coffin 
was used ? 

Mr. Hanna. This protest was the raising of the U.N. flag in Foun- 
tain Square, which was picketed by yours truly, from the American 
Nazi Party and the States Rights JParty. I was there that day, and 
Mrs. Witte and her group came marching up, the group carrying a 
coffin. The coffin had a dummy in it. Mrs. Witte kept this coffin in 
her basement at times, and at times other people kept it. This was 
one of the props of the National States Rights Parly. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you possess any knowledge with regard to the 
use of that coffin at private parties held at Mrs. Witte's home? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. How was this particular piece of equipment used? 

Mr. Hanna. This piece of equipment was used in what they called 
victory parties, when different rights people, civil rights people was 
killed, they would have small victory parties at Mrs. Witte's, and 
they used to put a dummy inside that. Specially the day Mrs. Liuzzo 
was killed, they had a dummy in the coffin, they were drinking and 
having party music, they were playing Klan records, and I remember 
Henry Muegel went to work and put a record on called The Old 
Rugged Cross. He walked over and took a knife and stuck it in the 
dummy a couple of times. 

Mr. Manuel, Were you in attendance at this party which you de- 
scribed ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Who else was there, Mr. Hanna ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I can't describe all the people. 

Mr. Manuel. Were persons there — were there persons in attendance 
whom you knew to be members of the Ku Klux Klan, the National 
Knights? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I have to state here, as I told you previous to this, 
that you can't identify a Klansman unless you see him initiated. You 
can hear people say he is a Klansman, he can say he is a Klansman, but 
in order to say a man's a Klansman, you have to see him initiated. 

You have to have proof, and I have never seen any of these men 
initiated. 

Mr. Manuel. Let me put it to you this way: Were there persons 
in attendance at that party whom you had seen at Klan rallies and 
Klan functions? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you yourself ever attended meetings of tlie Na- 
tional Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever attended any meetings at the farm of 
Parkie Scott? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3647 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And when did you attend these meetings? 

Mr. Hanna. These were private meetings, held for certain people 
only. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, at that point, explain what yon mean by that. 

Mr. Hanna. A lot of — these people were not necessarily Klans- 
men, not necessarily States Rights Party members, not necessarily 
Minute people. These people were involved in rightwing movements 
at different times, and things was discussed. They used Scott's farm 
to discuss these things. I was to four or five of the meetings. 

Mr. Manuel. And while in attendance at Parkie Scott's farm, 
would you tell the committee very briefly what the conversation was '? 
What was discussed ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, first of all, there was discussed about, oh, the 
Klan was going to hold a meeting, in Newport, Kentucky, at the Eagle's 
Hall. And the news media got ahold of this, and the Eagle's Hall 
was alerted, and they couldn't hold their meeting. 

So I was invited to this meeting, since I was concerned in this 
scuffle with a reporter, so we had it at Mr. Scott's farm. Myself and 
the men accused were there, and a few others. They tqjked about 
opening a front for the Klan at that time and a meeting hall, that is, 
for the Klan, in a private key club, to keep the black race out. 

Mr. Pool. The question occurs to me, did Mrs. Witte at any time 
ever keep any guns or explosives in her home ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I have never seen no guns or explosives in 
Mrs. Witte's home. 

Mr. Pool. The only guns you saw, somebody had brought them in 
there. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. They belonged to somebody else, they didn't belong to Mrs. 
Witte. 

Mr. Hanna. This is trvie. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, while in attendance at meetings at Parkie 
Scott's farm, did you observe any weapons being transported or 
distributed ? 

Mr. Hanna. I did so, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you describe for the committee what weapons 
and how they were being transported, and so forth? 

Mr. Hanna. One evening, 9 o'clock, at the Scott's farm, I was there 
for a meeting, a green panel truck drove in, took out cases of Spring- 
field rifles. First World War model 30-06 rifles, and then they carried 
them to the barn. And when I seen it, not being connected with the 
Klan, I would say that is the reason they put me in a car and drove 
me away real quick. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know wliere those weapons were obtained? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I can't even say they were weapons. They 
were cases marked U.S. military rifles. 

Mr. Manuel. You didn't actually see the weapons. Is that it ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I did not see the weapons. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know what happened to those boxes after 
you left the farm? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sif . 



3648 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Did you meet any Klan leaders or people that you thought 
of as being Klansmen at Mrs. Witte's home? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Pool. Can you name off some of these people? 

Mr. Hanna. People that I have met, I can name off both organiza- 
tions, States and the Klan both. Leaders I have met, is this what 
you want? 

Mr. Pool. Definite leaders of the Klan that you met in Mrs. Witte's 
home. 

Mr. Hanna. Well, of the Klan I met Mr. Venables. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Venable was at Mrs. Witte's home? 

Mr. Hanna. This is true. I met Mr. Morris, Mr. Heflin 

Mr. Manuel. Is that Heflin, William Heflin of Chattanooga, Ten- 
nessee, known as Doc Heflin? 

Mr. Hanna. This is a Mr. Heflin of Chattanooga Dixie Klan, Incor- 
porated, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Pool. Now you are sure that you met Mr. Venable in Mrs. 
Witte's home? 

Mr. Hanna. This is true, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Can you recall the occasion ? 

Mr. Hanna. He was there for some reason for the Klan, the Klan 
initiations. 

Mr. Pool. About what month ? 

Mr. Hanna. This is when I first met Mrs. Witte. 

Mr. Pool. When you first met Mrs. Witte. What month was that, 
now? 

Mr. Hanna. This was between January and March, He was there 
at her home. He was staying with her at that time, at her house, living 
there. 

Mr. Pool. How long did he stay there ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I don't know, because the next week after I went 
out, he wasn't there. I only met him and said hello, and he said, "I am 
James" — shook hands, and that was it. 

Mr. Pool. But he stayed at her house. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; he did. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you also meet Mr. William Hugh Morris? 

Mr. Hanna. I did, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. To your certain knowledge, has Mr. William Hugh 
Morris ever been a house guest at Mrs. Witte's home ? 

Mr. Hanna. He has. 

Mr. Manuel. And could you tell the committee when this hap- 
pened ? 

Mr. Hanna. This happened all through the Klan rally. He was a 
guest at her home. They mapped out strategy for the Klan rally, and 
so forth, went over papers. And I met him there at her house, and we 
talked about the Klan, and so forth, and he told me about the different 
movements in the Klan; a little bit about the Klan itself, the baclc- 
ground, and the platform. 

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mr. Morris know that you 
had submitted an application for membership into the Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And you have stated that you have never taken the 
initiation or taken the oath to become a Klan member. Is that correct ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3649 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; this is the reason why I made the statement 
that Mrs. Witte wasn't really sincere. Now Mrs. Witte told me in 
order to be a Klansman, you didn't have to be initated and you had 
to have it in your heart, and then they said later, "You have got it in 
your heart, and Mrs. Witte has got it in her pocketbook." 

Mr. Manuel. Now Mr. Hanna, prior to Mrs. Witte's appearance 
before the committee, were you visited by persons known by you to 
be affiliated with the Klan movement in some way ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now would you tell the committee where and when 
this visit occurred ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. This occurred, Mrs. Witte, as you know, 
took sick, and she could not testify 

Mr. Manuel. This was on Friday ? 

Mr. Hanna. Friday. So that Sunday, two men paid me a visit. 

Mr. M\NUEL. And who were the two men ? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, one of them's name is Simpson. 

Mr. Manuel. Is his first name Wilson Simpson ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I can't say this, that his name was William Simp- 
son ; his name is Simpson, that's all I know. 

Mr. Brandenburg made me acquainted with this man. That's all I 
knowed, his name was Mr. Simpson, "the little fellow," as they call 
him, Mr. Simpson. 

Mr. Manuel. And who was the other gentleman '? 

Mr. Hanna. The other man, I heard Mr. Simpson say, the name was 
Roe or Rose or something like that. 

Mr. Manuel. Is that Mr. Curtis Rose ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I do not know this. 

Mr. Manuel. All right. 

And why did these men pay you a visit ? 

Mr. Hanna. They thought that I— well, they knowed I was going to 
be called next to Washington, they thought that right away, you know, 
I would be up here by Monday or Tuesday. And they told me that 
if I was brought up here, under guard and everything, to make con- 
tact with Mr. Scott and not to trust Mrs. Witte, because Mrs. Witte 
has been expelled from the Klan, due to her stupidity, and that, well, 
they explained that Mrs. Witte was going to carry the load, to show her 
loyalty, and they told me that Mrs. Witte was already going to^ — 

Mr. Pool. Go slower. 

Mr. Hanna. What Mrs. Witte was going to say. 

Mr. Manuel. And what did tliey tell you with regard to Mrs. 
Witte's testimony, which she didn't give until Monday ? 

Mr. Hanna. They said she was going to take the fifth part of the 
time and then square herself with the assassination plots, and she done 
this; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And how was she supposed to "square herself," as you 
put it, with the assassination plots ? 

Mr. Hanna. She was to make Mr. Wagner look like a — a demented 
person. And that she was going to make herself look like a mother to 
Mr. Wagner. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, at any time during this conversation with these 
two individuals, did they ever tell you, or in any way inform you as to 



3650 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

what your conduct was supposed to be when you came before the 
committee ? 

Mr. HJVNNA. Yes ; they did. 

Mr. Manuel. And what did they tell you in that regard? 

Mr. Hanna. They told me that Eloise taught me to be relaxed at 
all times, before an investigation, that I should come up here, that I 
should take the fifth amendment constantly, and that I should not 
answer no questions, that I should not accept the Government in no 
w^ay, shape, or form, or any kind of deals that the Government would 
try to make with me, that I am obligated to them, and that Mrs. Witte 
is going to handle this matter in her own way. 

Mr. Pool. Did you make any kind of deal with the investigators 
for the committee ? 

Mr. Hanna. No ; I did not, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, prior to your appearance before the com- 
mittee and, as I understand it, before Mrs. Witte's appearance before 
the committee, did you attend a meeting at Parkie Scott's farm ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; I did, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And when did this meeting take place ? 

Mr. Hanna. This meeting took place the same day, sir, the conversa- 
tion, the conversation was held going up to Scott's farm. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, these two persons affiliated with the 
Klan came to your home and took you to Mr. Scott's farm. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes ; they did, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. What was the purpose of them taking you to Mr. 
Scott's farm ? 

Mr. Hanna. Sir, I do not know this. They just drove up; they 
said, "We need to go for a drive." They said, "We might be being- 
watched." They said that there is investigators in town. They said 
we know that a couple is coming, a couple more is coming into town, and 
we feel as that we should take a drive, since they have got equipment 
they can detect voices with, and that we should go for a drive, so 
nothing can be found out. 

Mr. Manuel. And, specifically, Mr. Hanna, and I will ask you this 
question again, did they advise you on how you were supposed to act 
when you came before the committee, if you did ? 

Mr. Hanna. They said that I was supposed to take the fifth amend- 
ment. They said not to tell a thing. They said that Mr. Scott would 
advise me when I got here, that Mr. Scott has denounced Mrs. Witte, 
the entire Klan has denounced Mrs. Witte. 

They said that Mr. Scott said that this is Mrs. Witte's own fault 
for getting this young boy involved with us, this Wagner, that is, 
and to keep calm, cool, and collected ; Mrs. Witte had to carry the load, 
and she was going to take the fifth amendment, part of the time, and 
then as far as assassination plots towards her husband, and so forth, 
was concerned, that she was going to go to work and testify there and 
square herself. 

Mr. Pool. Now could you identify these two men, if you saw them 
again ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; I could. I identified one. I believe, this 
morning, if I am not mistaken. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3651 

Mr. Pool. You did what? 

Mr. Hanna. I believe I identified a picture of one man this morning. 

Mr. Manuel. This morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hanna identified a 
picture of Mr. Curtis Rose as one of the individuals. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have a picture of Mr. Curtis Rose now ? 

Mr. Manuel. Now to your knowledge, Mr. Hanna, w^hat contact 
WRS there between Mrs. Witte and persons in Ohio, prior to her tes- 
timony? Do you possess any knowledge along those lines? 

Mr. Hanna. Rephrase that question just a little, please. 

Mr. Manuel. Well, to your knowledge, did Mrs. Witte contact per- 
sons in Ohio prior to her appearance before the committee regarding 
her testimony ? 

Mr. Hanna. I believe she contacted her husband. I know this, be- 
cause I talked to her husband. And as a matter of fact, I asked 
her husband to ask Mrs. Witte for advice, of what I should do, and 
Mrs. Witte had no advice. 

.Mr, Manuel. And this was prior to your receiving a subpena to 
appear before the committee. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; this is true, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. "V^Hiat was the conversation between yourself and Mr. 
Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, I explained to him that Mrs. Witte is, I told 
him, I said, "Mrs. Witte is not in the nicest predicament down in 
Washington," and I said, well, he didn't believe none of it. He 
said, he didn't think his wife would kill him, that she only beat him 
up occasionally. 

Mr, Manuel. Did you inquire of Mr. Witte, or did Mr. Witte in- 
quire of you, whether the testimony brought out in Washington was 
correct ? 

Mr. Hanna, No, sir, 

Mr. Manuel. He did not. 

Mr. Hanna, He did not make a statement to me ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, during the course of your association 
with different Klan groups in the State of Ohio and in the Cincinnati 
area, have you become familiar with an organization known as the 
Black Shirts? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. Manuel, And would you tell the committee, to your direct 
knowledge, what the Black Shirts is? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir; the Black Shirts is very similar to Mr. Shel- 
ton's security patrol or security guard. They are a force that guard 
for the National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, These are military 
Black Shirts. These men wear gold badges, state trooper hats, pis- 
tols, and clubs. As a matter of fact, the first time I seen them, I 
thought it was some kind of auxiliary police force or sheriff's depart- 
ment, until I recognized a few of the men as being connected with 
either the States Rights or the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Now, have you ever been a member of that organiza- 
tion, the Black Shirts? 

Mr. Hanna. I was considered a member ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. And it was your function, as I understand it, to act 
as security guard for rallies. 



3652 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Hanxa. This is true, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever meet with members of the Black Shirts 
in a closed meeting ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Would you tell the committee, to your direct knowl- 
edge, who the other members of the Black Shirts are in the State of 
Ohio? • 

Mr. Hanna. These men have been identified at the rally as Barney 
Ross, Ed Green, Malcolm Smith, W. K. Smith. 

Mr. Manuel. And Mr. W. K. Smith is from Columbus, Ohio. Is 
that correct ? 

Mr. HanNxV. He is from Ohio. 1 do not know where. 

Mr. IVIanuel. Where is Mr. Barney Ross from ? 

Mr. Hanna. Barney Ross is from Walton, Kentucky. 

Mr. Manuel. And *Mr. Malcolm Smith ? 

Mr. HLvNNA. Malcolm Smith is from somewhere in Ohio. 

Mr. Manuel. I am sorry. 

Mr. Hanna. Somewhere in Ohio ; I do not know where. 

Mr. Manuel. And how^ about Mr. Ed Green ? 

Mr. Hanna. Mr. Ed Green is from South Fort Mitchell, Kentucky. 
This is in Kenton County. 

Mr. IVIanuel. South Fort Mitchell, Kentucky. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes. 

Mr. Manuel. Is there anyone else whom you can identify for the 
committee as members of the Black Shirt organization? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; because the men were at the rally, these men 
were identified in the newspapers as members of the Black Shirt 
Klan. 

Mr. Manuel. Other than the incident at the rally in Kentucky, do 
you possess any knowdedge regardino: any act of violence carried out 
or plotted by members of the Black Sliirt organization? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I don't. 

Mr. M.\NUEL. Mr. Hanna, for purposes of identification, I will show 
you a copy of an article which appeared in the Cleveland, Ohio, 
Press and News^ on September 27, lOfio, titled "Cambridge Klan 
Rally Burns Out," and next to that description of that rally is a 
photograph, which shows and identifies Mr. Flynn Harvey and also 
identifies another officer of the Ohio Klan, Curtis Rose of Hamilton. 

I show you this, Mr. Hanna, and call your attention to the figure 
of the person identified as Curtis Rose and ask if this is the man who 
paid you a visit along with Mr. Simpson on last Sunday. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Hanna. This picture here is not the one that I actually iden- 
tified. The picture was a glossy picture. This is very similar, but 
the glossy picture, because you must remember, this man in this pic- 
ture has a peak hat on, which is a Klan uniform, and you can't see 
his hair. The way I identify this man is due to his haircut and due 
to the thinning spots and also to the structure of his nose. 

The glossy picture, I could identify. This is very similar to the 
glossy picture, but the glossy picture, I would say, is more similar to 
the man that paid me the visit than this picture — clipping, rather. 

(Document marked "Richard Hanna Exhibit No. 2" follows:) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3653 



Richard Hanna Exhibit No. 2 

[Cleveland, Ohio, Press and News, Sept. 27, 1965] 




OHIO GRAND DRAGON Flynn Harvey was asked for 
autographs at rally of United Klfln-^ of America at 
Cambridge during the weekend. 'Wdiuiing the grand 
dragon is another officer of the Ohio Klan, Curtis 
Rose of Hamilton. 



Rally Bums Out 

By Press State Service 

CAMBRIDGE — The ballyhoocri Ihice-day rally nf 
the United Klan.s nf America near here pxpireri r|iiietly 
Saturday night because of lack of attendance, one day 
short of its planned length.; 

Only about 175 persons at, 
tended the final meeting, 
which lasted about one hour 
and ended with a cross-burn- 



Rohprt Sheltnn of Tusca 
lon.sa. Ala., Ihe imperial 
wizard, did not .spealc at the 
meeting as planned. 

The State Highway Patrol 
and Guernsey County sher- 
iff's deputies intervened 
when Klan members and 
about 15 pickets carrying 
anti-Klan placard.s confront- 
ed each other. 

The officers herded the 
pickets across the road and 
there was no trouble. 

Flynn Ilaivoy of Colum- 
bus, grand dragon in Ohio.; 
had said he expected seyerat 
thousand persons to attenrf 
the rally. 

The two night meetings 
drew a total of less than 25(i 
persons. 

Harvey said he believed 
the group had accomplisherl 
what it hoped for and hail 
gamed 125 new members. 



Mr. Manuel. From that picture alone, Mr. Hanna, are yon able to 
identify Mr. Rose as the person who paid you the visit? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I can't identify this man from — from the 
o^lossy picture, there is a very good resemblance, but from this picture, 
due to the boy's head and the way the shadow is and the robe itself, 
I can't identify this as Mr. Rose ; no, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. Now with regard to Mr. Simpson, do you know where 
Mr. Simpson is employed, or has been employed? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I knoAv that he is connected with a TV repair 
business. I do not know exactly where. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess until "I o'clock, Avhen 
the witness will return to the stand. 

(Members present at time of recess: Representatives Pool and 
Buchanan.) 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 20 p.m. Monday, February 21, 1966, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) 



59-222 O — G7 — pt. u- 



-12 



3654 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

AFTERNOON SESSION— MONDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1966 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chair- 
man of the subcommittee, presiding. ) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Bu- 
chanan.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Continue your interrogation, Mr. Manuel. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD JOSEPH HANNA— Resumed 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I just have several more questions 
to ask of Mr. Hanna. And with regard to one statement you made 
this morning, Mr. Hanna, you stated that you had left membership 
in the American Nazi Party in December of 1965. 

Now, I ask you is that date correct, or was it a different date? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir; I believe I left the membership in 1964 
and contacted Mrs. Witte in 1965. 

Mr. Manuel. 1965. 

Mr. Hanna. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you had left membership in the 
American Nazi Party prior to contacting Mrs. Witte? 

Mr. Hanna. This is true. 

Mr. Manuel. For the record, Mr. Chairman, I would like to 
state regarding the photographs in question of this morning's testi- 
mony, I have discussed this matter with Mr. Hanna, and it is my 
understanding that Mr. Hanna is unable to positively identify both 
the glossy photograph which was referred to this morning and the 
photograph w^hich appears in the Cleveland Press, which was re- 
ferred to, so I state for the Chair that the investigative staff will 
look further into this to try to determine the identity of these two 
people and also the identity of the person who called on Mr. Hanna 
at his home, about which he testified. 

Mr. Pool. Let the Chair also state, in the Chair's opinion, the 
photographs are not good enough photographs for purposes of 
identification, in my opinion. 

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Hanna, you stated that two individuals, one 
of whom you know to be a man named Simpson and another was 
identified to you as either Roe or Rose, paid a visit to you last 
Sunday to discuss certain matters relating to your appearance, 
possible appearance before the committee, and also told you certain 
facts concerning Mrs. Witte's appearance before the committee. 

Now, prior to Sunday, did these same two individuals visit you? 

Mr. Hanna. Friday, Mr. Simpson visited me and talked to me 
briefly. He told me he would be getting in contact with me, and I 
w^aited for him. We got into his car and drove up to Scott's farm 
and discussed it and told us what we were going to say up here. 

Mr. Manuel. On the Friday visit, what was discussed by Mr. 
Simpson ? 

Mr. Hanna. He said we were faced with a serious problem be- 
cause, as he put it in his own words, fouled up with this kid and 
this kid put the finger on a lot of people. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3655 

Mr. Manuel. Was he referring to Daniel Wagner? 

Mr. Hanna. Yes; he was. He said I should be tight-lipped and 
not talk to Walter Huff because Walter Hufl' was involved with 
Bobby Stephens who was an FBI or police informer. 

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Walter Huff to be a member of the 
National Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. AValter Huff told me in a personal conversation he 
has been in the Klan since 1923. 

Mr. Manuel. Do you know him to hold any office in the National 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Hanna. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Manuel. IMf. Cliairman, the staff has no further questions 
to ask of Mr. Hanna at this time. 

Mr. Pool. When these people contacted you and talked to you 
just before Mrs. Witte went on the stand and testified, did they 
at any time threaten you '? 

Mr. Hanna. Well, they sort of beat around the bush. They ex- 
plained to me that the Klan — that anyone in the Klan who talks, 
their life is not worth a nickel. I told them I was not obligated to 
the Klan in any way, shape, or form and if I wanted to tell the 
truth, I would, and if I was subpenaed I would tell the truth. 

They said, "What do you know to be the truth?" I said, "I am 
not at liberty to say.'' Mrs. Witte, also previous to this, threatened 
my life several times — Mrs. Witte, that is. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair wishes to tell you that you are protected 
under the Federal statutes and if at any time you are threatened, 
or any of your relatives are threatened, or there is any other form 
or fashion of a threat, you should get in touch with the committee 
and let them know about it, because under the Federal statutes, 
anything in connection with an inquiry or investigation being held 
by either House or any committee of either House or any joint com- 
mittee of Congress, any witness under those circumstances is covered 
by this Federal statute and there is a stiff penalty for anyone to 
attempt to interfere with a committee. 

Mr. Hanna. May I say one thing on behalf of my presence here, 
that as far as I know, we have some people from the Klan here, 
one who I know personally, Mr. Stoner, from the National States 
Rights Party, and I know quite a few Klansmen. 

I think by coming up here testifying against Mrs. Witte I am 
doing the Klan and the States Rights Party a favor. I talked to 
Mr. Stoner awhile back and I made the remark on a few activities 
of Mrs. Witte dealing witli people who should not be in the States 
Rights Party, and this has been taken care of. 

The Klan should thank me, I believe, for coming up here to testify. 
I have done no harm to the Klan. If the Klan wants to stay a clean 
group, they should not have these people in their organization such 
as Mrs. Witte, because she will do them more harm than good. 

I hope I can ahvays speak to these men as far as friends are con- 
cerned. I have nothing against these people. Any traitors that are 
going to do our country harm, such as assassinate the President or 
hurt our cause or the security of our country, I will turn them in at 
any opportunity I can and see they are dealt with justly. 



3656 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. There have been a great many people identified before 
this committee who are, in my opinion, very unsavory and irresponsible 
people. I think, of course, the Klan has too many of these types of 
people in the Klan. Perhaps these hearings will help clean out the 
Klan and maybe elevate their purposes a little. 

Mr. Hanna. I would hope this very much. 

Mr. Pool. If it does not, I would hope they would disband and get 
into some other kind of organization that might be more helpful to 
the country. 

Do you have anything, Mr. Buchanan? 

Mr. Buchanan. No. 

Mr. Pool. I do want to state that your testimony this morning .and 
the testimony of Mr. Wagner and the testimony of Mrs. Witte con- 
vinces me that certainly there has been perjury committed before this 
committee and I, for one, am going to do everything I can to have 
the committee present this evidence and the transcript to the Justice 
Department with the idea of prosecuting the ones who have committed 
perjury before this committee. 

I am convinced of it this morning. I w.as convinced of it the other 
day, but I am more convinced today than I was the other day. 

I do want to state that you have been very cooperative with the 
committee. 

Mr. Hanna. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Pool. And for that the committee thanks you. 

Mr. Hanna. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You are excused permanently .as a witness, but I want 
to point out to you and anyone else who might hear about this or be 
in the audience that your protection is good for many months aftei 
this hearing is over with. I believe it is 5 years. 

So with that admonition I gave you a little while ago, please con- 
tact us if anyone does contact you and thinks you have done a dis- 
service and tries to harm you or tries to intimidate you in any way. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Appell. Eunice Grover Fallaw. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and notliing but the truth, so help vou 
God? 

Mr. Fallaw. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EUNICE GROVER FALLAW, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Eunice Grover Fallaw. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, from Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a 
subpena served upon you at tlie Winner Motor Companv, Cocoa, 
Florida, on January 28, 1966 ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3657 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your 
educational background? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your 
employment background ? 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, did you ask him if he had read the opening 
statement? 

Mr. Appell. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Fallaw, did you receive a copy of Chairman Willis' opening- 
statement of October 1965 and are you familiar witli tlie contents 
thereof ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your 
emnlnvnent back^rround? 

Mr. Fallaw. I refuse to do so on the ground that my answers might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Under the terms of the subpena served upon you and 
an attachment thereto, which was made a part of the subpena, you 
were commanded to bring with you and to produce documents de- 
scribed in two paragraplis, paragraph 1 reading : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or 
available to you as present or former officer of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Fallaw, 
I ask you to produce the records called for. 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me and I also refuse to answer by invoking 
all of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 2d, 5th, 6th, 4th, 6th, 
8th, 9th, 10th, and Uth amendments of the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Mr. Pool. Did you give the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. I did not ask you a question. I asked you to produce 
documents. Will you produce the documents, or are you refusing to 
produce them on the grounds you are now setting forth? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fali^w. I refuse to under the groiuids of the 1st, 5th, 4th, 6th, 
Sth, 9th, 10th, 11th, and Uth amendments of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to 
produce those documents called for in his representative capacity as 
outlined in paragraph 1. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to produce those documents re- 
quested by the interrogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena, para- 
graph 1, and to produce the documents called for therein in the repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 



3658 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Fallaw. Again, under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 11th, and 
the 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. I want to tell you this before I order and direct you for 
the last time, that the House by an overwhelming vote supported this 
committee's request that certain witnesses be cited for contempt of 
Congress, by overwhelming vote. Citations for seven of them were 
sent to the Justice Department for further action. 

With that in mind, I order and direct you to produce the documents 
called for in this subpena, paragraph 1, in your representative capacity 
as called for in the subpena. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is rejected by the Chair. 

Go ahead, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former oflBcer of tbe United Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the "Con- 
stitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained 
by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your posses- 
sion, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set fortli in paragraph 2, 1 ask you to 
produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and the 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, again you were not asked a question. You 
were asked to produce documents called for in a representative ca- 
pacity. Do you refuse to produce the documents under the grounds 
you have previously stated ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. Under the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. You refuse to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Chairman, in light of the witness' refusal to produce the docu- 
ments called for in paragraph 2, I ask that tlie witness be directed to 
produce the documents. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and this answer is rejected. I order and direct 
you to produce those documents called for by the interrogator in re- 
sponse to the paragraph 2 of the subpena in your representative 
capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. Could I say something here at this point, sir? 

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Fallaw. Without waiving anything — in other words, some- 
thing I would like to say and we would take this back up again. 

Mr. Pool. We don't give you any immunity or anything; however, 
you can say anything you want to, but I warn you ahead of time, any- 
thing you say will go into the record. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3659 

Mr. Pool. Is it your claim that you do not have the documents? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I have never had any documents. 

Mr. Pool. You do not have them at the present time ? 

Mr. Fallaw. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. And you liave never liad them in your possession, custody. 
or control ? 

Mr. Fallaw. I have never been an officer of the Klan to the point 
where I would have any documents. 

Mr. Pool. What about paragraph 1, the first request? Does the 
same thing apply there ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You do not have the documents called for in paragraph 

1 or 2? 

Mr. Fallaw. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You have never had them in your possession and never 
had control or custody ? 

Mr. Fallaw. I have never had any control of that part of the 
organization. 

Mr. Pool. Who does have control and custody of them ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
might tend to incriminate me, and the fifth. 

Mr. Pool. In view of the witness' answer, Mr. Appell, I think you 
can go ahead and ask your next question. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the witness 
has testified that he has never held a position within a Klan organiza- 
tion which required him to have and maintain records of the organiza- 
tion called for in paragraph 1 and paragraph 2 of the subpena, and 
you asked him for his knowledge as to the identity of the members 
who did possess those documents, I ask that he be directed to answer 
your question with respect to who did have and maintain the records. 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I would like to say one more thing. 

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Fallaw. Since the FBI investigation in Jacksonville 2 years 
ago, they advised me to just stop right where I was. And it has been 

2 years since I have been in contact with any organization whatsoever 
or the Klan, and I don't even have the slightest idea now what is 
going on or vice versa. 

Mr. Pool. You don't know who has control of these documents or 
records ? 

Mr. Fallaw. At the present time, I couldn't tell you who is an 
officer or who is not. 

Mr. Pool. Did you know who had them ?> or more years ago. 

Mr. Fallaw. It is possible. 

Mr. Pool. Wlio had them 3 years ago ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. Are you refusing on the grounds that you took an oath 
to the Ku Klux Klan that you would not reveal the names of any of 
the members? 

Mr. Fallaw. I will use the fifth again, sii'. 



3660 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. You are refusing on the grounds of the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. I order and direct you to identify who has the records if 
you don't have them. Since you opened it up, I order you now to 
either produce tlie documents or state wlio has them or who had them 2 
or 3 years ago, the last time you knew about them. That is up to you 
now. I am ordering and directing you to do that. This is the final 
time I am going to direct you to do that. 

Mr. Fallaw. I wouldn't know who ^^■as doing it now ; but 3 years 
ago, at that time, tliere was a fellow wlio was our secretary, and I pre- 
sume he would have had such records. 

Mr. Pool. What was his name ? 

Mr. Fallaw. I couldn't begin to spell it. Philip S-t-a-t-m-i-o-r-e 
or something like that. 

Mr. Appell. Is that John E. S-t-o-u-d-e-n-m-i-r-e ? 

Mr. Fallaw. This was some 3 years ago, sir, and like I said, I have 
not had any connection or affiliation with them since then. 

Mr. Pool. You know nothing about the records for the past 3 years? 

Mr. Fallaw. Absolutely nothing. 

Mr. Pool. We accept your statement on that. 

Mr. Appell. When did you cease being a member of a Klan 
organization? 

(Witness confers with counsel. ) 

Mr. Fallaw^ Sir, I am going to use the fifth here. I refuse to 
answer on the grounds that to do so might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. As an officer of the United Florida Klaus, did you at- 
tend as a delegate meetings of the National Association of Ku Klux 
Klan organizations w^hich w^as chaired by James R. Venable? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds to do so might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. On the grounds previously stated? 

Mr. FxVLLAw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. That includes the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. On April 6, 1963, did you attend such a meeting of the 
National Association in Biloxi, Mississippi? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I will stand on the fifth again. Do you want me 
to read all of this ? 

Mr. Appell. No, sir; and it will be acceptable to the committee if 
you will just say for the reasons previously given. 

At the meeting in Biloxi, Mississippi, on April 6 and 7, 1963, were 
the other delegates from the United Florida Klan Jason Kersey of 
New Symrna Beach and William Eogers of Tallahassee ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I stand on the fifth as previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. On May 26, 1963, did you attend a meeting of the Na- 
tional Association under the chairmanship of James R. Venable at the 
Dinkier Hotel in Atlanta? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. On August 3 and August 4, 1963, were you a delegate 
to the National Association of Ku Klux Klan organizations, that 
meeting held at the Dinkier Hotel in Atlanta? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3661 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, are these dates you are asking about during 
the past 3 years? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. This is August 3, 1963. 

Mr. Pool. I believe in your testimony a while ago you said you had 
nothing to do with the Klan. 

Mr. Fallaw. Two years and one month. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any dates in there, Mr. Appell, that would 
be inclusive of the time that he said he had nothing to do with the 
Klan? 

Mr. Appell. We are working up to some dates, jSIr. Chairman. 

Did you attend a Klan rally at Stone Mountain, Georgia, on Au- 
gust 31, 1963 ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Were you a speaker at that rally which, as a part of 
your remarks, you made the statement, "I'm 48 years old and I may 
not live to be 50, but when my kids put me in the ground they'll know 
1 died like a white man" ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, who were the other delegates to the Na- 
tional Association of Ku Klux Klan organizations? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. On November 30, 1963, Mr. Fallaw, the National As- 
sociation held a meeting at the Henry Grady Hotel in Atlanta. 
According to the committee's investigation, at the close of that meeting, 
attacks were made upon Gene Fallaw, Comiie Lynch, for their orga- 
nizing efforts in north Florida. They were criticized — and you were 
criticized and Connie Lynch was criticized because you were raiding 
the Klan organization, the United Florida Klan, headed by Jason 
Kersey. Was that factual as of that time ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Pool. Did you say it was factual, Mr. Appell? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. When Mr. Appell says it is factual, he has taken the 
oath early in the hearings and he is stating under oath that it is 
factual. You are having the chance here now to deny it. 

Mr. Appell. ]Mr. Fallaw, did you and Connie Lynch and J. B. 
Stoner attempt to form a new Klan organization in opposition to the 
United Florida Klan headed by Jason Kersey ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I will take the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Were you attempting to start an independent Klan 
group, or was there a promotion whereby you might transfer this 
membership into the United Klans of America under Robert Shelton? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I will take the fiftli, as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, on August 17, 1963, Connie Lynch spoke 
at a United Klans rally in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Did you 
arrange for Connie Lynch to speak at that rally ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Pool. When was that ? 

Mr. Appell. August 17, 1963. 

Mr. Fallaw, starting July 27, 1963, did you, Connie Lynch, Calvin 
Craig, J. B. Stoner, Don Cothran conduct a series of Klan rallies 
tlirouffh the Jacksonville-St. Auirustine area of Florida ? 



3662 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Fali.aw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, the Legislative Investigation Committee 
of the Florida Legislature under the chairmanship of R, O. Mitchell, 
conducted an investigation and lield some hearings with respect to the 
racial and civil disorders in St. Augustine, Florida. Page 31 of their 
report gives chronological events in St. Augustine in a section headed, 
"The K.K.K. Arrives." 

The first date refers to the date of September 18, 1963, states, and 

I quote : 

Dr. Robert Hayling and three colored companions were severely beaten when 
they tried to observe a Ku Klux Klan meeting 3 miles south of St. Augustine. 
Deputy sheriffs rescued the four Negroes and arrested four Jacksonville Klans- 
men. The St. Augustine Record reported that this "the first open meeting of 
its kind in this area in recent years." A crowd of 400 attended the first night's 
session and well over 2,500 on the second night. Klansmen reported many new 
I'ecruits. 

Did you organize that rally on September 18, 1963? 

Ml*. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

(Document marked "Eunice Fallaw Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Appell. Was Connie Lynch the principal speaker at that rally? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Do you recall that Connie Lynch made reference to 
his being interviewed by the FBI and then asking him, "Do you know 
who bombed the church in Birmingham?*', and of Connie Lynch tell- 
ing the people there, "I said no and if I did I wouldn't tell you," and 
then to the people he said, "But I will tell you people here tonight 
that if they can find those fellows, they ought to pin a medal on them." 

Did you hear Connie Lynch state that ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Did you also hear Connie Lynch say to the people 
gathered that he was speaking for God and that those people in the 
audience had better listen to them, and then he said : 

"We've got guts enough to do something about the situation and no other 
organization has. AVe need a good strong group in St. Augustine. You come 
and sign up. But don't come if you are weak or a coward. This ain't no 
peaceful organization. We aim to do whatever is necessary to put the Nigger 
back in his place, preferably in his grave." 

Do you remember Connie Lynch saying that ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I will stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, do you remember the Klansmen assembled 
discovering the four Negroes in the vicinity of the rally? Do you 
remember that? 

Mr. Fallaw\ Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien those Negroes were brought to the platform that 
was being used to address the audience by the Klansmen, will you tell 
the committee which of the Klansmen that were at that rally actually 
participated in the beating of those Negroes ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previously. 

Mr. Appell. Were you one of them who actually participated in 
that, Mr. Fallaw? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. Was Joseph H. Bedford, Albert T. Massey, Robert 
Sylvester Arant, and Connie Lynch also involved in the beating of 
those Negroes? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3663 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell, Mr. Fallaw, the sheriff's department arrived and res- 
cued the Negroes and arrested four individuals who were still at the 
scene, whose committee investigation showed had no actual participa- 
tion in the beating. They just happened to be there when the sheriff's 
members arrived. The four they arrested were Dewitt Wade String- 
field, Lawrence Allen Bessent, Clarence Oscar Wilson, and Jarmou 
Davis, all of Jacksonville, Florida. 

Did you know those four men to be members of the Klan? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, were you a member of the United Florida 
Klan on the night of February 15-16, 1964, when the home of Donald 
Godfrey was bombed? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Pool. That has been less than 2 years and 1 month. 

Mr. Fallaw. That was about the time the FBI started the investi- 
gation. 

Mr. Pool. That is about 2 years and a week. 

Mr. Fallaw. As soon as that investigation was over, I had no affilia- 
tion whatsoever. 

Mr. Pool. You are changing your testimony again now. You hrst 
said it is 3 years since you had anything to do with them, then you said 
2 years and 1 month. Are you changing it again uoav ? 

Mr. Fallaw\ This was as far as United Florida was concerned. 

Mr. Pool. Any Ku Klux Klan organization. 

Mr. Fallaw. As far as my figures, and I could be wrong as to the 
dates, but as soon as the actual — and I imagine he has it over there — 
when I was picked up here at the Federal Building, 1 week after that 
I resigned from the organization and had nothing further to do with 
it or with anything. 

Mr. Pool. Any kind of Ku Klux organization ? 

Mr. Fallaw, That is right. 

Mr. Pool. Any name similar to that ? 

Mr. Fallu\w. That is right. 

Mr. Pool. Or any cover name ? 

Mr. Fallaw. After I took that lie detector test in Jacksonville. 

Mr. Pool. You have not been a member under any cover name since 
that time ? 

Mr. Fallaw. That is right. 

Mr. Pool. That is the last statement you are going to make on 
that? 

Mr. Fallaw. It was a week or a week and a half — in other words, 
when I took that lie detector test. 

Mr. Pool. When was that? 

Mr. Fallaw. I couldn't give you the exact date. I don't know. 

Mr. Pool. What month was it? 

Mr. Fallaav. He has it there somewhere. 

Mr. Appell. Was it after the bombing and before the arrest or 
indictment of those arrested ? 

Mr. Fallaw. It was before the arrest. There was an investigation 
made there. 

Mr. Appell. There were indicted in March. 

Mr. Fallaw. Forty or fifty of us were picked up, and it was before 
the indictments that all of this other transpired. 



3664 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. What knoAvledge did you possess of that instance that 
they were investigating ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. To what extent to your knowledge was the KLan active 
in late 1963 in the St. Augustine area ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. You stated that you had not had anything to do with 
the tJnited Florida organization for 3 years and 1 month. You then 
stated that you have had nothing to do with a Klan organization of 
any nomenclature since sometime after the 15th of February and the 
middle of Marcli. What Klan organization were you active in imme- 
diately prior to your quitting any Klan affiliations? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallow, prior to your quitting the Klan after in- 
vestigation by the FBI in either February or March of 1964, how long 
had you been an active member of a Ku Klux Klan organization? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw, the committee's information is that you 
were affiliated with the Association of Georgia Klans, with the U.S. 
Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, with the Ku Klux Klan organi- 
zation in Florida, with the United Florida Ku Klux Klan. Were you 
ever affiliated with any other Klan organization ? 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, again I stand on the fifth as previous. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions. 

Mr. Pool. Why did you quit the Ku Klux Klan? Can you give 
me a reason since that time why you quit? I am sure you thought 
about the reason you quit. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I would like to invoke the fifth as previous on 
that. 

Mr. Pool. I am not asking you about something that happened 
while you were a member. I am asking you why you quite the Ku 
Klux Klan. What do you think of the Ku Klux Klan today? I will 
ask it that way. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Pool. This is your chance to make a statement. 

Mr. Fallaw. Sir, I would like to stand on the fifth. 

Mr. Pool. I thought you were going to talk there for a while when 
you set a date as to when you got out. You cut it off and you don't 
explain to the American people why you got out. I think it would be 
very pertinent if you want to do it. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Pool. It is up to you and your lawyer. I am not telling you to 
disregard his advice. I am just wondering what you would say. Do 
you care to make any statement ? 

Mr. Fallaw. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Robert Pittman Gentry. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gentry. I do, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3665 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL. J. B. STONER 

Mr. Stoxer. I represent Mr. Gentry, also. 

Mr. Pool. Let us get the witness identified first. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, will yoii please state your full name for 
the record ? 

Mr. Gentry. Robert Pittman Gentry. 

Mr. Appell. You are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Gentry. I am, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Stoner. I am J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, from Augusta, 
Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, would you give us your business address? 

Mr. Stoner. The Marion Building, in Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you on the 31st day of August 1965, 
by Mr. Ray McConnon, an investigator of this committee, which called 
for your original appearance and you did appear on September 29, 
1965, in executive session ? 

You have been continued since that time, have you not, and you are 
appearing today in that sequence ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Gentry? 

Mr. Pool. Let me ask if you have been furnished a copy of the 
opening statement? 

Mr. Gentry. I have. 

Mr. Pool. And you understand the contents of the chairman's open- 
ing statement? 

Mr. Gentry. I do, sir. 

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Gentry? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me and I assert 
my right not to answer guaranteed to me by the fifth amendment of 
the Constitution. 

Mr. Pool. How old are you ? 

Mr. Gentry. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. Were you born in the United States? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. I can't see where that would incriminate you if you were 
born in the United States and I do not see how your age would 
incriminate you. 

Are you basing your answer on the fact that your answer would 
tend to incriminate you under the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool. Do you honestly feel that way ? 

Mr. Gentry. I do. 

Mr. Pool. Well, I don't think so. 

Go ahead, Mr. Appell. 



3666 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

There is no use staring at me. One of the witnesses tried it, and it 
didn't work. 

Mr. Appell. Did you appear before the committee in executive ses- 
sion in September 1965 ? 

Mr. Gentry. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, were you represented by Mr. J. B. St oner 
at that time even though Mr. Stoner did not accompany you? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the gromids that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, there is a document signed J. B, Stoner, 
attorney at law, Marion Building, P.O. Box 184, Augusta, Georgia, 
addressed : 

Petition to the House of Representatives, United States Congress, 
Washington, D.C. 

Re: The Investigation by the House Comm. Un-American Activities of the Ku 

KIux Klan and my client, Mr. Robert Gentry. 

Gentlemen : Today, September 27, 1965, my client and friend, Mr. Robert 
Gentry, testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee as a result 
of a subpoena having been served upon him. 

Upon my legal advice. Mr. Robert Gentry invoked the Fifth Amendment to 
the Constitution upon being questioned. As a result of his exercising said Con- 
stitutional right, Chairman Willis and Committee Investigator Ray McConn ' 
threatened him with contempt, thereby violating his Constitutional rights. In 
an effort to bulldoze Mr. Gentry, Chairman Willis and Investigator McConn^ 
mentioned other cases where vpitnesses had been indicted for failing to answer 
questions of the Committee, failing to point out to Mr. Gentry that the Fifth 
Amendment was not invoked in the other cases. 

Mr. Gentry will continue to use the Fifth Amendment because the purpose 
of the Committee is to obviously try to get him to incriminate himself and, 
under the Constitution and consistent Supreme Court rulings, I can guarantee 
Mr. Gentry that he will never be convicted. Nobody has ever been convicted of 
using the Fifth Amendment before a Congressional Committee and Chairman 
Willis undoubtedly knows it. The Fifth Amendment was placed in the Con- 
stitution by the founding fathers for the benefit of American patriots and 
now is the time for them to use it when efforts are being made to incriminate 
them. 

Wherefore, I hereby petition you to pass a resolution reprimanding Chairman 
Willis, the House Committee on Un-American Affairs and Investigator Ray 
McConn ^ for misusing a Congressional Committee to persecute a patriotic White 
Christian American Citizen and to order them to cease and desist. The Commit- 
tee should be upholding the Constitution instead of trying to wreck it. 

Mr. Gentry, can you explain to me how this was sent to the Speaker 
and received by him on September 28 when you did not appear before 
the committee in executive session until September 29? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Robert Gentry Exhibit No. 1" appears on 
p. 3667.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, in the course of some 3 days that you were 
here did you offer to aid the staff in its inquiry into the Ku Klux 
Klan organizations? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

^ Correct nanio "McConnon". 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3667 

Robert Gentry Exhibit No. 1 




PETITION TO THE HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES 

UNITED STATES CONTOESS ^'^ 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Re: The Investigation by the House Comm. 

Un-American Actlvitlfcs of the Kli 
Qentlemen: Klux Klan and my client, M-. Robert 

Gentry. 

Today, Septembet 27, 1965, my client and friend, rt-. Robert Gentry 
testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee as a result 
of a subpoena having been served upon him. 

Upon my legal advice, Mr-. Robert Gentry Invoked the Fifth 
Ainendment to the Constitution when being questioned. As a result 
of his exercising said Constitutional right. Chairman Willis and 
Committee Investigator Ray rfcConn threatened him with contempt, 
thereby violating his Constitutional ri^ts. In an effort to bull 
doze M". Gentry, Chairmen Willis and Investigator MsConn mentioned 
other cases where witnesses had been Indicted for failing to answer 
questions of the Conmlttee, failing to point out to Mt-. Gentry that 
the Fifth Amendment was not invoked in the other cases. 

^fr. Gentry will continue to use the Fifth Amendment because the 
purpose of the Conmlttee is to obviously try to get him to incriminate 
himself and, under the Constitution and consistent Supreme Court rulings, 
I can guarantee Ifr. Gentry that he will never be convicted. Nobody haa 
ever been convicted of using the Fifth Amendment before a Congressional 
Committee and Chairman Willis imdoubtedly knows it. The Fifth Amendment 
vas placed In the Constitution by the founding fathers for the benefit of 
Anerlcan patriots and now is the time for them to use It when efforts are 
being made to Incriminate them. 

WHEREFORE, I hereby petition you to pass a resolution reprimanding 

Oialrnaji Wlllla, the House Committee on Un-American Affairs and Divestl- 

^tor Ray ffcConn for misusing a Congressional Committee to persecute a 

patriotic White Christian American Citizen and to order them to cease and 

dealst. The Conmlttee should be upholding the Constitution instead of 

trying to wreck It. 

Respec tfullx--«ub^tlftil*_____^ 



v.B. Stoner 
Attorney at Law 
Jfcrion Building 
P.O. B ox 184 
Augusta, Georgia 
Phone 724-07S2, area code 404 



3668 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, I desire to read into the record a state- 
ment, after which I will give you an opportunity to respond to any 
]3art of that statement : 

Kobert Pittman Gentry was subpenaed on August 31, 1965, 
by B. Ray McConnon, Jr., an investigator of the Committee 
on Un-American Activities. Gentry arrived in Washington, 
D.C., on September 27, 1965, and was a witness in executive 
session on September 29, 1965. 

In advance of the 29th, Gentry offered his knowledge to 
the staff, but reserved the right to claim privilege before the 
committee unless certain conditions he outlined would be met. 
The conditions rejected by the committee were : 

1. No part of the testimony to be made public; 

2. No testimony given by him would ever be used against 
him in a trial or for an indictment ; and 

3. He be allowed to "discriminately" invoke the fifth 
amendment. 

Wlien Chairman Willis pointed out to the witness that it 
was impossible to comply with his demands due to the law and 
conditions which might arise, Gentry inA'oked constitutional 
privilege on questions relating to Klans, Klan violence, ex- 
cept that he denied membership on date of appearance on 
September 29, 1965. 

Gentry was born on July 7, 1938, at Nashville, Tennessee. 

During interviews with staff members, Gentry admitted 
joining the Klan shortly before June 25, 1961. At the time 
he joined, the Florida Klan was afRliated with the newly 
formed United Klans, which split from the United Klans 
and became independent. 

Gentry was assigned to the Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 8, 
which was one of the six Robert E. Lee Klaverns in the Jack- 
sonville, Florida, area. After 6 months, he became kligrapp, 
or secretary, of the Klavem. In the late fall of 1963, he was 
elected grand klexter or outer guard. 

Members, according to Gentry, were even carried on rolls 
by number and code. Only the kligrapp and the exalted 
Cyclops knew the identity of all, based upon their committing 
knowledge to memory. Some members never paid dues, at- 
tended meetings, or were even carried on the rolls. 

No law enforcement people were members of his Klavern. 
He w^ould not identify State or municipal officials in the Klan. 
He stated that the Klan did have people of political prom- 
inence as well as scum. 

The Klan screened its membership in order to detect and 
eliminate informers, but they were not interested in "getting 
troublemakers out." 

The dues in Gentry's Klavern were $2.50 per month, with 
part of the dues being set aside in a special emergency fund. 
Money from the special collections were also placed m this 
fund. Gentry, in stating that the existence of the special fund 
was unknown to the general mmebership, described the funds' 
purpose as providing bail, attorneys, or ''Mexican vacations." 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3669 

According to Gentry's knowledge of possible infiltration by 
. agents of law enforcement agencies, important business relat- 
ing to cross-burnings, intimidation, or violence was not dis- 
cussed before the general membership l^ut before a klokann 
conunittee comprised of the most trusted members. The com- 
mittee might only discuss and make plans and then get others 
not on the committee to carry out the plan. The klokann 
committee must have the exalted cyclops' approval before 
carrying out violence, except murder. Murder must be ap- 
proved in advance by the Grand Dragon. 

Gentry denied any knowledge of plans to bomb the God- 
frey residence or also participating in the stealing of dyna- 
mite. He admitted riding with William Rosecrans and firing 
a shotgun at Eugene Striggler, 2649 Bethel Eoad, Jackson- 
ville, Florida, a Negro employee of Tamiami trucking 
company, as their car passed Striggler's station wagon at a 
high rate of speed. 

Gentry stated that he deliberately shot to miss. This oc- 
curred on February 6, 1964, with the main charge from the 
shotgun striking Striggler's station wagon about the center 
of the rear door window on the driver's side of the vehicle. 

Gentry admitted being in Birmingham. Alabama, on 
September 15, 1963, but would not discuss his purpose for 
being there or the identity of those persons with whom he met. 

Gentry stated that Gene Wilson, Bart Griffin, Gene Spegal, 
and himself were deputy sheriffs to L. O. Davis, St. Johns 
County. Davis, according to Gentry, was not a Klansman 
but allowed Klan meetings to be held in the county jail and 
also loaned sheriff department automobiles to the Klansmen. 

Gentry identified Spegal as the exalted cyclops of the 
Robert iE. Lee Klavern No. 13, Kenneth Overstreet as the 
exalted cyclops of the Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 6, Bart 
Griffin as the exalted cyclops of the Robert E. Lee Klavern 
No. 13, and the Grand Dragon replacing Gene Fallaw. 

He identified other grand officers ser\dng with him as : 
Buddie Cooper and "Hoss" Manucy of St. Augustine, 
Florida ; Paul Steadman, Gene Wilson, and Gene Spegal. 

Gentry identified J. B. Stoner as a hidden member of the 
Klan who possessed a passport which entitles Stoner to be 
admitted into any Ignited Florida Klan Klavern. 

Mr. Gentry, I give you this opportunity to add any comment that 
you desire to make on this statement that has been read to you. 

Mr. Gentry. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, on the grounds 
that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Gentry, in view of your refusal to rebut the state- 
ment made by the investigator, there is only one thing this committee 
can do and that is to accept the statement as read for our purposes 
unless you have something to offer or to comment on or reject or deny 
the statement or make any further statement about it, we are going 
to accept that statement. ' » 

Now, do you have any statement ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir; I respectfully decline to answer, on the 
grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 13 



3670 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. This is your opportunity right now to tell the United 
States and the world and the people of America whether or not the 
statement is true. 

(Witness confers with comisel.) 

Mr. Gentry. I respectfully decline to answer Mr. Appell's question 
on the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. In other words, you are going to take the fifth amend- 
ment on that statement ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool. That is your privilege. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, William Eosecrans, who admitted to the 
actual bombing, manufacturing, and making of the bomb that dyna- 
mited the residence of Donald Godfrey, advised that 13 cases, each 
containing 165 sticks of dynamite, were stolen by him and other 
Klansmen in December 1963. 

He further advised that some of the dynamite was used to make 
grenades by packing dynamite, nuts, and bolts into a can and attach- 
ing a fuse. 

Do you possess knowledge of the manufacture of such grenades? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Eosecrans further advised that you, Gene Wilson, 
Gene Spegal, and Bart Griffin discussed using this type of grenade 
on the liquor store located at Linturner and Edgewood Avenues in 
Jacksonville, also on the NAACP headquarters, also located in Jack- 
sonville. 

Was Eosecrans telling the truth ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, did he testify to his age before the com- 
mittee in the executive session ? 

Mr. Appell. I don't believe so, but his birth date, according to our 
records, is July 7, 1938, at Nashville, Tennessee. 

Mr. Gentry, I hand you some pages from a looseleaf binder, headed 
"Start Of 2nd Trial, 11/18/64." Let me hand you these and ask you 
if you turned these over to me while you were here in Washington in 
September of 1965? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

(Documents marked "Eobert. Gentry Exhibit No. 2" and retained in 
committee files. ) 

Mr. Appell. You thumbed through this. Is this your writing ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, were you, William Sterling Eosecrans, 
Barton H. Griffin, Jacky Don Harden, Donald Eugene Spegal, 
Willie Eugene Wilson indicted on a two-count indictment, charged 
with violating an injunction against interference with the attendance 
of Negroes at Lackawanna Public School and, second, a conspiracy 
which reads — 

did combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other and with divers 
other persons to the Grand Jury unlvnown, to injure, oppress, threaten and in- 
timidate Donald Godfrey, a Negro citizen of the United States, and other persons 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3671 

similarly situated, in the free exercise and enjoyment of, and on account of their 
having exercised, a right secured to them by the Constitution and laws of 
the United States, namely, a right to attend the Lackawanna Public School and 
other public schools in Duval County, Florida, pursuant to the permanent in- 
junction of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida 
made and entered the 21st day of August, 1962 * * *. 

Is that factual ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me and also I 
refuse to answer by invoking all of my privileges under the 1st, 4th, 
5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of 
the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. Did you include the fifth ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I did. 

(Document marked "obert Gentry Exhibit No. 3'' appears on pp. 
3672,3673.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, is it a further fact that at the end of the 
first trial, count two of the indictment was dropped against you ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me, and I as- 
sert my right not to answer as guaranteed to me by the fifth amend- 
ment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Appell. Is it true both counts were dropped against Jacky Don 
Harden ? 

Mr. Gentry. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. The second trial that these notes report on result from 
tlie fact that the first jury resulted in a hung jury with a vote of 10 
to 2 and when we get to these notes we are getting to a second trial 
which started on 11-8-64. 

Do you possess any knowledge of dynamite that was found on 
Hickscher Drive on March 20, 1964, as testified to in that trial by 
agents of the FBI? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Can you tell me what is the significance of the page 
which is headed "Bill Rosecrans 5th Amendment" and then the word 
"Hooray"? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry, you told me this morning that approxi- 
mately 3 weeks ago an attempt, in your opinion, had been made upon 
you by some occupants in an automobile bearing California tags, not 
otlierwise identified. 

Was such an attack made upon you ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. This happened 3 weeks ago. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry advised me this morning. I asked him if 
it was factual or not. 

Mr. Gentry, have you ever, in connection with your conversations 
with me or other members of the staff, been under assignment from 
anyone that you knew to be a member of a Klan organization? 

Mr. Gentry. Would you please restate that? 



3672 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Robert Gentry Exhibit No. 3 

UNITED STATES DIST".-:r COURT 

MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA 

JACKSONVILLE DIVISION 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

V, No, Cr-J 

(18 use 241, 1509) 
WILLIAM STERLING ROSECRANS, Jr., 

a/k/a JAMES LEWIS 
ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY 
BARTON H. GRIFFIN, 

a/k/a BART rJlIFFIN 
JACKY DON HARDEN 
DONALD EUGENE SPEGAL, 

a/k/a GENE SPEGAL 
WILLIE EUGENE WILSON, 

a/k/a GENE WILSON 

The Grand Jury charges: 

cprajT o:']" 

Beginning on or before September i, 1963, and continuing until the 
date of this Indictment, in D'lval County, in the Middle District of 
Florida, and at divers other places to the Grand Jury unknown, WILLIAM 
STERLING ROSECRANS, Jr., a/k/a JAMES LR7IS, ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY, BARTON 
H. GRIFFIN a/k/a BART GRIFFIN, JACKY DON HARDEN, DONALD EUGENE SPEGAL 
a/k/a GENE SPEGAL and WILLIE EUGENE WILSON a/k/a GENE WILSON, co-defendants 
and CO -conspirator 3, did combine, conspire, confederate and agree with 
each other and with divers other persons to the Grand Jury unknown, to 
injure, oppress, threaten and intimidate Donald Godfrey, a Negro citizen 
of the United States, and other persons fiimilarly situated, in the free 
exercise and enjoyment of, and on account of their having exercised, a 
right secured to them by the Constitution and laws of the United States, 
namely, a right to attend the Lackawanna Public School and other public 
schools in Duval County, Florida, pursuant to the permanent injunction 
of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida 
made and entered the 21st day of August, 1962, and the Final Order of the 
United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida entered 
the 8th day of May, 1963, in the case entitled Braxton et al. v. Board of 
Public Instruction of Duval County, Florida, et al.. No. 4598-Civil-J; 
in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 241. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3673 
Robert Gentry Exhibit No. 3 — Continued 
COUNT TWO 
On or about February 16, 1964, WILLIAM STERLING ROSECRANS, Jr., a/k/a 
JAMES LEWIS, ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY, BARTON H. GRIFFIN a/k/a BART GRIFFIN, / 
JACK? DON HARDEN, DOilALD EUGENE SPEGAL r./k/a GSNE SPEGAL, and WILLIE. 
EUGENE WILSON a/k/c GF)^:; I.'tLSC^F, by tlirer-ts and force, did unlawfully 
prevent, obstruct, impede and interfere wir-.hjand did unlawfully attempt 
to obstruct, impede and interfere with, the due exerciae of rights by 
Donald Godfrey ani others similarly situated under an Order, Judgment 
and Decree cL the Court of the United States, to-wit, the Decree for 
perngnent iiijunct:-.ou signed by Chief Judge Bryan Slapson of the United 
States District Crurt for the Southern District of Florida, Jacksonville 
Division, ;.:i the ccfq of Braxton et al, v. Board of Public Instruction 
of Duval County, Florida, et al,, No, 4598-Civil-J, as modified by the 
Final Order signed by Chief J-ad-^e. Bryan Simpson of the United States 
District Court for the Middle District of Florida in the aforesaid 
case; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1509. 



FOREMAN 



EDWARD F. BOARDMAN 
United States Attorney 



By. 



Assistant United States Attorney 



3674 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. In your conversations with me or other members of the 
staff, have you been under any instructions issued to you by anyone 
you knew to be a member of a Klan? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further question^ to 
ask of Mr. Gentry. 

Mr. Pool. Have you ever been threatened about your testimony? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. If you w^ant to tell us about it, I point out to you that 
a Federal statute protects you as a witness subpenaed before this 
committee and I doubt veiy seriously that anyone would harm you. 

It covers a 5-year period and it is a stiff penalty. If 3'ou want to 
reveal anything to the committee, we would be glad to hear from you. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You do not have any statement to make about that? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any questions, Mr. Buchanan? 

Mr. Buchanan. No questions. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Gentry. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The committee stands in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess w^as taken. Subcommittee members 
present at time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representatives 
Pool and Buchanan.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

The Chair wishes to make the statement and stand corrected : The 
act of intimidation or threat that I mentioned to the witnesses earlier 
could happen at any time, and they would still be under the protec- 
tion of the Federal law. The 5 years applies to the statute of limita- 
tions. In other words, after the threat was given, there is a 5-year 
statute of limitation on prosecution. 

I wanted to have the record show that as a correction. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Appell. Jacky Don Harden. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the wliole truth, and nothing but the trutli, so help you God ? 

Mr. Harden. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JACKY DON HARDEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record. 

Mr. Harden. My given name, or the name I go by ? 

Mr. Appell. Your legal name. 

Mr. Harden. Jaclcy Don Harden. 

Mr. Appell. What name do you go by ? 

Mr. Harden. Jack. 

Mr. Appell. Jacky. You spell it J-a-c-k-y? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3675 

Mr. Harden. J-a-c-k-y. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Harden. I am. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, 
Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, when and where were you born? 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer, on the grounds that the jvuswer 
may tend to incriminate me, under the fifth amendment of the Con- 
stitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, ask him about the opening statement of the 
clvainnan. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, did you receive a copy of, and become ac- 
quainted with, tlie opening statement of Chainnan Willis given in 
October of 1965 ? 

Mr. Harden. I did receive a copy. 

Mr. Appell. Are you familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Harden. In brief; yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel stipulate that he is familiar? 

Mr. Harden. I am familiar. 

Mr. Pool. Do you care to have any further time to study it ? 

Mr. Harden, 1 have read over it sufficiently. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you in Jacksonville, Florida, on 
January 24, 1966 ? 

Mr. Harden. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, the subpena served upon you contains an 
attachment thereto, which is made a part of the subpena, and under 
the conditions of the subpena you are commanded to bring with you 
and to produce tliose documents set forth in paragraph 1, as follows : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations ; namely, Robert E. Lee Klavern 
508, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained 
by you or available to you as former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee Klavern 
#508, United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth there, Mr. Harden, I ask 
you to produce tlie documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer that question, sir, invoking all of my 
in-ivileges and rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you ha^■e given for your refusal to produce 
these documents as called' for by this subpena do not legally justify 
your refusal, and those reasons are rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce these documents at the request of 
the interrogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena and to produce 
the documents called for therein in the representative capacity stated 
in the subpena. 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I respectfully refuse, on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, paragraph 2 called for you to produce : 



3676 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- 
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee Klavern #508, United Florida Ku 
Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize 
and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, 
the same being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Hardex. I refuse to produce so on the grounds to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I refuse to answer bv — or to produce, under 
the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and the 14tli amendments to the 
Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer, therefore, is rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer or produce them on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Pool, Your answer is rejected. 

Go ahead, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, in March of 1964 were you indicted along 
with William Sterling Rosecrans 

Mr. Pool. Pardon me just a moment, Mr. Appell. 

Do you have the documents in your possession ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden". I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I want to find out if you have the documents in your pos- 
session. If you do not, do you want to explain when was the last time 
that you had them ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse on the same grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Your refusal is rejected, and I order and direct you for 
the last time to produce the documents called for in paragraph 2 of 
the subpena. And I want to point out to you that other witnesses have 
refused to produce docmnents called for similar to this instance here, 
and the House of Representatives has overwhelmingly backed this 
committee and sent the citations for contempt to the Justice Depaii:- 
ment for further action. 

Do you still want to make any statement ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your grounds are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, were you indicted in March 1964, along 
with William Sterling Rosecrans, Robert Pittman Gentry, Barton H. 
Griffin, Donald Eugene Spegal, and Willie Eugene Wilson, under a 
two-comit indictment growing out of the bombing of a residence of 
Donald Godfrey of Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that this answer might tend to incriminate me, and invoke my rights 
under the fifth amendment of the Gonstitution of the United States of 
America. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3677 

Mr. Appell. Is it a fsict that at the conclusion of the first trial that 
counts one and two were dropped against you ? 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that its 
answer might tend to incriminate me, and invoke my rights under the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. If you wish, you can say, Mr. Witness, you refuse on tlie 
gi'ounds previously stated, if it is the same as previously stated. 

Mr. Harden. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the record of the 
case reflects that the two-count indictment against Mr. Harden was 
dropped, I direct that he answer the question as to wliether or not it is 
factual that the two counts were dropped. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Appell. I ask that he be directed to answer that question, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. Ask your question again. 

Mr. Appell. Is it a fact that at the conclusion of the first trial that 
the indictment of yourself under counts one and two was dropped? 

Mr. Harden. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds pre- 
viously stated, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, w^ere you acquainted with Earl Sidney 
Jordan, who testified in the second trial in November and identified 
himself as a former member of the Klan ? 

Mr. Harden, Sir, I refuse to answer, on the ground previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, an account in the W ashington Post of 
November 22, 1964, states, in reference to Earl Sidney Jordan, that : 

.Jordan testified that Barton H. Griffin, one of the defendants, aslced him to fill 
out an application to join the Klan. He said he heard Griffin discuss dynamite 
on one occasion and another time he saw a 30-g:allon drum full of dynamite at the 
home of William Sterling Rosecrans, Jr., who has pleaded guilty to conspir- 
ing to bomb the home. 

.Jordan said he was stationed as a road guard during the first pai't of the Klan 
initiation, and heard a loud explosion. He testified it sounded like dynamite. 

Jordan said he was later taken back to the place of the initiation and saw 
Griffin and another man set off dynamite blasts in cans. 

Were you one of tlie men who set otf dynamite blasts at that Klan 
initiation ceremony ? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated, under the fifth amendment. 

(Document marked "Jacky Harden Exhibit No. 1'" appears on p. 
3678.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, is it a fact that you were born September 
28, 1938, at Griffin, Georgia ? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
])reviously stated, 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you received a general edu- 
cation diploma while serving in the United States Navy. 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you reside at 15339 Duval 
Road, Duval County. Florida. 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on tlie grounds 
previously stated. 



3678 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jacky Harden Exhibit No. 1 

[Washinglon Post, November 22, 1964] 



Former Klaiisiiiaii Says Dyiiaiiiile 
Was Set Off as Initiation Ritual 



I 



JACKSONVILLE, PU . Nov. 
21 (OlM)— A former mrtnher 
Af iht Kb Khiw.jci«n teiUlied. 
Tn'rHfral Vo{i\ri tMiy UK 
ht ■ attrndrd. an Inlllallon 
where dynamltr wa« net off 
"•t WHIT* AT ImM of a «Wm- 
onilrallMi " 

The Ualiiitutu' hy Lar 1 Sid 
nfy Jordan, 24, canif i>n the 
f^fth day of thf rHflal «f four 
Klaniimrn rharKcd In ronnrr 
Uon wUh Ihp hnnihlnR of the 
home of a NVgro bov who 
hrokf thr rolor line at an 
rlentrntary arhool 

Th* four were Ihh^A In a 



mUtrUl laat ^uljkwhen a Juryj 
waa unablv to reach a verdlrt 

Jordan teatlfled that Hartonl 
H (iriffin. one of the defend 
ant*, aaked hlni to fill out an, 
aindlratlon to Join the Klan i 
lie aatd he heard (irifftn dli ' 
ruii dynamllV on one i>c^ai>un 
aiMl another time he law a SO 
gallon drum full of dy/tainile 
at the home of William Sler 
Itnt Woiaocaoa Jr., who haa. 
pIradH lullty to ronntiirini:, 
to bomb the honir 

Jonlan kaid he \*a« sta(loiM->l 
a> a riMMl tiuanl itiirini: the 
firil iMkrt of the Klan iniiiatiiii 
anil ht>anl ■ liiuti rxpliMiim Mt* 
laallflcU II koyikdnl llk<< ilMia 
"Hie • .», 



llnrttab kaiill lti< w «% laitt 
talM»4ta«'k to thr plat-r iil tltt* 
InitlaticMi an0 uw (;rirrin and 
another man act off dynamite 
-bUau In oana. 

Chanted with .rtmipirtnc to 
vtulata th« cIvU rtjthu »f the 
NrRro hoy, dyrar-old Donald i 
Godfrey, wore Donald KuKenoj 
StM«gal Wnite Kuifpna WUaon, 
RoTirTfT* TTFfflfi/TlM (tHfflfi ' 
All but Ci^ntry are aNt 
rhartsnl wllh ohNtrurttnt; a 
Federal Cwirt order for denett- 
rruallon of l.a<'kawat)iu Kit' 
in«iil«ry Srituul htev. 



Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that you are employed by Owens-Illinois, Wood Products 
Division in Jacksonville, Florida. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
to do so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer 
by invoking all of my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, Btli, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the T'nited States. 

Mr. Pool. What company did he work for ? 

Mr. Appell. Owens-Illinois. 

Mr. Pool. Your employment there would tend to incriminate you ( 
Is that what you are saying? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I am refusing that on the ground previously 
stated, including the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, I put it to you as a fact that you admitted 
during testimony at the first trial that you were the exalted cyclops of 
Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508. I put that to you as a fact, and as]< 
you to affirm or deny the fact, that you did so testify. 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
that answ^er to that question might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that other members of Eobert 
E. Lee Klavern 508 were Robert Pittman Gentry and Saint Elmo 
Mattox. 

Mr. Harden. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair wishes to advise the witness that when he puts 
it to you as a fact, he is testifying under oath. He has previously been 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3679 

SATorn, and his statement is sworn testimony when he puts it to you 
as a fact. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, Kobert Gentry advised members of the 
staff of the committee that Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 maintained 
a special fund out of which bail was raised, attorneys secured, and what 
he described as Mexican vacations financed. 

Do you possess know'ledge of such a fund? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gentry also advised the staff that \vithin the 
Klavern there was a klokann committee and that acts of violence to 
be carried out under the supervision and direction of this committee 
were to be approved by the exalted cyclops. 

As the exalted cyclops of the Klavern, did you ever approve such 
acts? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to ansAver that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. As an exalted cyclops of the Klavern, could you tell 
the committee the purpose of a klokann committee? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Harden, was the testimony of yourself in the Fed- 
eral trial in Jacksonville, which grew out of the bombing of the Donald 
Godfrey home, truthful ? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. To your certain knowledge, was the testimony of your 
codefendants truthful ? 

Mr. Harden. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
])reviously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
this witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Appell. Saint Elmo Mattox. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Mattox. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF SAINT ELMO MATTOX, SR., ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, state your full name for the record. 
Mr. Mattox. Saint Elmo Mattox, Sr. 

Mr. Appell. In writing your name, is "Saint" abbreviated ? 
Mr. Mattox. Saint or S.E. Igoby "S.E.,"also. 
Mr. Appell. Your middle name is Elmo, and your last name is 
spelled M-a-t-t-o-x ? 
Mr. Mattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Mattox. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Appell. Counsel, please state your identification. 



3680 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, Marion Building, Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you in Jacksonville, Florida, on the 
24th day of January 1966 ? 

Mr. Mattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, under the terms of the subpena which 
was served upon you, an attachment, which was made a part of the 
subpena, called upon you to bring with you and produce certain 
documents set forth in the attachment, paragraph 1 reading : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and aflSliated organizations ; namely, Robert E. Lee Klavern 
#508, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops of the 
Robert E. Lee Klavern #508, United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In a representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Mattox, 
I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. Sir, I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds 
that to do so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invok- 
ing all my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments of the Constitution. 

Mr. Pool. He didn't ask you to answer. He asked you to produce. 

Mr. Mattox. Sir, I refuse, on the previous ground. 

Mr. Pool. You refuse to produce the documents called for? 

Mr. Mattox. On the previous grounds stated; yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and these reasons are rejected. 

I direct and order you to produce these documents called for by the 
interrogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena, to produce the 
documents called for therein in the representative capacity stated in 
the subpena. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse on the ground that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and also I refuse by invoking all my rights and privi- 
leges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments 
of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Exalted Cyclops of the Robert E. Lee klavern #508, United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the '•Constitution and Laws" of said organization 
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said 
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. 

I ask you to produce the documents called for in the representative 
capacity set forth in paragraph 2. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I respectfully decline to do so on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3681 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your 
rei3resentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I respectfully refuse to do so on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your refusal is rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to 
affirm or deny the fact, that you were elected the exalted cyclops of 
Robert E. Lee Klavern 508 in 1964. 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so would 
tend to incriminate me and in accordance with the fifth amendment 
of the United States Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, did you succeed Jir^ky Don Harden as 
the exalted cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 ? 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse on the grounds previously stated, sir. 

Mr. Appel. Mr. Mattox, what information do you possess of 
violence carried out by members of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 in 
Jacksonville-St. Augustine area of Florida? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated, 
sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, do you know Willie Eugene Wilson to 
have been the exalted cyclops of Rol)ert E. Lee Klavern No. 1-3? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer, on the same grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Barton H. Griffin to have been an 
exalted cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 13 ? 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer, on the grounds that to do so 
might incriminate me, as previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Robert Vincent Hamrick to have been 
exalted cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 14 in Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, does Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 and 
Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 13 both use 11741 Main Street, Jackson- 
ville, Florida, as the meeting place for their Klaverns? 

Mr. Mattox. Sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds previo\isly 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Mattox, I put it to you as a fact that you were 
born on June 3, 1907, at Lake Butler, Florida. 

(Witness confers Avith counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to }'ou as a fact that you have a ninth grade 
education and you reside at 1013 Seminole Avenue, in Jacksonville. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Mattox. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me, and also by invoking all of my rights 
and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6tli, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th 
amendments of the Constitution of the Ignited States. 

Mr. Pool. If you wish, you can say you refuse on the grounds 
previously stated, if that is your grounds. It will save time. 



3682 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask of this witness. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any questions, Mr. Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Appell. Barton H. Griffin, 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Griffin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF BARTON H. GRIFFIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record. 

Mr. Griffin. Barton H. Griffin. 

Mr, Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Griffin. I am. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel, please identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B, Stoner, Marion Building, Augusta, Georgia, 

Mr, Appell, Mr, Griffin, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you in Jacksonville, Florida, on 
January 25, 1966 ? 

Mr, Griffin, Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, under the terms of the subpena 

Mr. Pool. Just a moment. 

Mr, Griffin, are you familiar with the chairman's opening state- 
ment of October 1965 and the contents therein ? 

Mr, Griffin, I was given a copy of it, which I read. 

Mr. Pool. Do you understand it ? 

Mr. Griffin. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Pool. You don't care to examine it any further? 

Mr. Griffin. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool, Go ahead, Mr, Appell, 

Mr. Appell. The subpena contained as an attachment, which was 
made a part of the subpena, and under the terms of the subpena you 
were commanded to bring with you documents described in the at- 
tachment, which reads, paragraph 1 : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and aflBliated organizations ; namely, Robert E. Lee Klavern 
513, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained 
by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee 
Klavern 513, United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in the subpena, Mr. Griffin, 
I ask you to produce the documents set forth, in the representative 
capacity stated therein, 

Mr, Griffin, I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse to produce by invoking all of my 
rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States, 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3683 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for do not legally justify your refusal, and these 
reasons are rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce these documents as called for by 
the interrogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena and to produce 
the documents called for therein, in the representative capacity stated 
in the subpena in paragraph 1, the documents in paragraph 1. 

Mr. Griffin. My answer is the same. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls for: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your ca- 
pacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee Klavem 513, United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization 
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other oflBcer of said 
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or conrtol. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to produce on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to produce under all of my 
rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for refusal to produce these 
documents called for by this part of the subpena, paragraph 2, do not 
legally justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse for the previously stated reasons. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected by the committee. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, when and where were you born ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer, as previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. You refuse to answer on what grounds ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse because of the previously stated reasons. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, the committee's investigation established 
you were born on March 10, 1929, at Caryville, Florida, that you have 
a grammar school education, that you served in the Marine Corps from 
January 21, 1944, to November 17, 1944, in the United States Army 
from February 16, 1946, to May 13, 194Y, in the Army again from 
October 22, 1951, to March 20, 1952, all separations honorable, medical 
reasons, asthma, and that your specialty while in the Army was that 
of heavy weapons and infantryman. 

Do you care to offer any comment upon that ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, Robert Gentry advised members of the 
investigative staff that you were the exalted cyclops of Robert E. Lee 
Klavern No. 13 and that you also held the position at one time of Grand 
Dragon. Were the statements made by Robert Gentry factual ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse on the grounds previously stated, sir. 



3684 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Both Kobert Gentry and William Rosecrans advised 
that they overtook a Negro employee of Tamiami Freightways and 
that Gentry fired a shotgun at the Negro named Eugene Striggler. 
Mr. Gentry testified that he shot to miss. 

Did you order either or both Rosecrans and Gentry to take this 
action against Eugene Striggler? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer, on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Isn't Eugene Striggler a fellow employee of yours at 
Tamiami Freightways? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. What did you hope to gain by having this course of 
action take against Mr. Striggler ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, did you know another employee of Tami- 
ami Freightways, Gus Denson ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, on September 26, 1963, a shotgun was 
fired at a Tamiami truck being driven by Gus Denson, which resulted 
in Denson being shot in the left side with seven pieces of buckshot 
imbedded in the left posterior chest area. 

Did you order an attack upon Gus Denson ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, in March of 1964 you, along with William 
Sterling Rosecrans, Robert Pittman Gentry, Jacky Don Harden, and 
Donald Eugene Spegal, Wille Eugene Wilson, were indicted follow- 
ing the bombing of a Negro residence of Donald Godfrey, a Negro who 
had enrolled in the Lackawanna School. 

Did you testify in your own defense ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, I will attempt to summarize testimony 
which you gave in that trial, and at the conclusion of which I will ask 
you to offer any comment that you care to upon this summary : 

That you knew a place on Yellow Bluff Road where numerous ini- 
tiation rites of the Klan were held ; that you denied the testimony of 
Government witness Jordan that there had been detonations, explo- 
sions, at these initiations, and instead exhibited some cherry bombs 
which you testified were exploded instead of dynamite. 

You denied ever having seen Douglas Holmes. You denied that 
you helped Rosecrans break into the Merrill Dynamite Company. 

You denied disposing of any dynamite in the Ortega River. You 
alleged that your house had been bombed and burned on April 25, 
1964. 

You admitted being the exalted cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavem 
No. 513 during the month of March 1964. 

That you admitted being the exalted cyclops on the date of your 
testimony, July 4, 1964; that you admitted being a member of the 
Klan for 2 or 3 years; that you know William Rosecrans in the 
Klan and that you helped to initiate him ; that you attended a number 
of Klan meetinofs with Rosecrans and admitted that Rosecrans was a 
a member of Robert E. Lee Klavern 513 ; that you admitted driving 
to see L. O. Davis, sheriff, accompanied by Eugene Wilson ; and you 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3685 

testified you would not tell about bombings if you were involved be- 
cause of your Klan oath ; and that you admitted that rifles and pistols 
were fired at initiation meetings as part of the initiations, and that 
there were 40 or 50 members present at the initiation, as testified to 
by Jordan; and that you testified that Frank Rigdon was not a 
member of the Klan at the time the dynamite was stolen; and that 
you refused to take the lie detector test on whether or not your house 
had been burned ; and that you admitted that your wife Pearl was in 
charge of the picket lines at the Lackawanna School; and that you 
claimed that the oath administered by the court superseded your 
Klan oath. 

On that summary of your testimony, Mr. Griffin, do you desire to 
make any comments, additions, or corrections ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, was the testimony which you gave in that 
Federal proceeding truthful ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, according to the New York Times of Mon- 
day, May 4, 1964, there is a story, "300 at Klan Meeting Applaud Slurs 
on Negroes.-' I will read from the story : 

The speaker at the night meeting was J. B. Stoner, an Atlanta lawyer who 
has long been connected with Klan activity. A few weeks ago he was nomi- 
nated as the Vice-Presidential candidate of the National States Rights party, an- 
other fringe group that exists chiefly in Birmingham, Ala. 

His running mate for President is John Casper, who served a prison term 
for inciting racial trouble in Tennessee. 

The speaker praised a fellow Klansman, Bart Griffin, who has been indicted 
in the bombing of a Negro home here. A few days ago Mr. Griffin's home was 
destroyed by fire reported to have been started by a bomb. But the Duval 
County authorities said no bomb was involved and they found no evidence 
the fire was set by Negroes. 

Mr. Griffin, can you tell the committee how the fire that burned 
your home was started ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Barton Griffin Exhibit No. 1" appears on p. 
3686.) 

Mr. Appell. Was this a fire that got out of control after there had 
been an attempt to establish an alibi ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, what role did you and other Jacksonville, 
Florida, Klansmen play in the violence that erupted in St. Augustine, 
Florida, in the summer of 1964 ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you arrested and charged with burning a cross 
on the property of the City Baking Company ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you ever convicted of that arrest ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you a deputy or special deputy of Sheriff L. O. 
Davis? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Jacksonville is not located in St. John's County, is it? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Other people at that time arrested on warrants signed 
by County Judge Charles Mathis, Jr., charging four men with placing 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 14 



3686 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 



Barton Griffin Exhibit No. 1 

[New York Times, May 4, 1964] 



THF NEW YORK TIMES, MONDAY, MAY 4, 1964. 

300 at Klan Meeting Applaud Slurs on Negroes 



By JOHN HERBEBS 

Special to Tbt New York Tlmti 

JACKSONVILLE, Fla., May 
3 — As the last refrain of "The 
Old Rugged Cross" died out and 
a 25-foot cross burned agziinst 
a dark sky, a chubby man in 
a gray suit and bow tie 
stepped to tlie speaker's stantf. 

"People in other parts of the 
country like to think of niggers 
as human beings because they 
have hands and feet," he said. 
"So do apes and gorillas have 
hands and feet. If a nigger has 
a soul I never read about it in 
the Bible. The only good nigger 
is a dead nigger." 

The audience of about 300 
men and women — most of them 
in robes, hoods and masks — 
applauded and began to mur- 
mur other anti-Negro senti- 
ments as the speaker went on: 

"The nigger is a willing tool 
of the Communist Jews and is 
being used to destroy America. 
They want to pump the blood 
of Africa into our white veins." 
Children at Flay 

The faces that could be seen 
were hard and humorless. Chil- 
dren played in and out of the 
robes, apparently unaware of 
what was being said. 

This was a Saturday night 
meeting of an extremist fringe 
of the Ku Klux Klan, itself a 
fringe group among prosegre- 
gation Southerners. Small in 



Cfdldrtn Play Amid Hooded 

Men and Women at Night 

Rally in Jacksonvdle 



numljers, these groups — known 
as the Klan or by other names 
— exist in pockets across the 
South. The authorities believe 
they inspire bombings and pro- 
vide the spark for other racial 
violence. 

They met In a field just 
north of the Jacksonville Mu- 
nicipal Airport. Earlier, they 
had paraded through downtown 
Jacksonville to protest the civil 
rights bill. Mayor W Haydon 
Bums, a candidate for Gover- 
nor in Tuesday's Democratic 
primary, had granted the per- 
mit for the parade. 

To the relief of the police, a 
thunderstorm throughout the 
parade reduced pedestrian traf 
fie, and with it, the possibility 
of violence in the city that was 
the scene of riots Easter week. 

The speaker at the night 
meeting was J. B. Stnncr, an 
Atlanta lawyer who has long 
been connected with Klan ac- 
tivity. A few weeks ago he 
was nominated as the Vice- 
Presidential candidate of the 
National States Rights party, 
another fringe group that ex- 
ists chiefly in Birmingham, Ala. 

His running mate for Presi- 



dent is John Casper, who served 
a prison term for inciting racial 
trouble in Tennessee. 

The speaker praised a fellow 
Klansman, Bart Griffin, who 
has been indicted in the bomb- 
ing of a Negro home here. A 
few days ago Mr. Griffin's home 
was destroyed by fire reported 
to have been started by » bomb. 
But the Duval County authori- 
ties said no bomb was Involved 
and they had found no evidence 
the fire was est by N»£r<>««. 

"I suspect that niggers 
bombed it with F.B.I, consent 
or the F.B.I, bombed it itself." 
the speaker said. "Even if they 
didn't, they set him up as a 
target." 

His voice was carried for 
blocks by a loudspeaker. 

It was difficult to ascertain 
which Klan group was in 
charge. The parade was 
arranged by Woodrow Woods, 
who calls himself the Grand 
Titan of the United Klans of 
Florid^. Some knights who wear 
black robes call themselves the 
Knights of the Golden Eagle. 
One leader identifies himself as 
a Kleagle (organizer) from 
Augusta, Ga. 

From the tone of the meet- 
ing, it was obvious that this 
was not the Klan element that 
asserts it has adopted non- 
violence. 



a burning cross or causing it to be placed on the property of the City 
Baking Company are identified in this article ["Klansmen Facing Ar- 
rest," Miami Herald, July 25, 1964] as being J. B. Stoner of Atlanta, 
an attorney for the Ku Klux Klan ; Connie Lynch of San Bernardino, 
California, a segregationist who says he is a minister ; Paul Cochran, 
identified by the State attorney as a KKK leader in Jacksonville ; and 
Bill Coleman of St. Augustine, a man the State attorney said was a 
KKK leader. 

Mr. Griffin, were either or any or all of these people known to you 
to be members of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Barton Griffin Exhibit No. 2" appears on p. 
3687.) 

Mr. Appem.. Mr. Griffin, the National States Rights Party held a 
meeting in Birmingham, Alabama, in November of 1964. Were you 
introduced, along with Mr. Gene Wilson, as two Florida white patri- 
ots who had been framed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you framed by the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gation ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3687 



Barton Griffin Exhibit No. 2 

[Miami (Fla.) Herald, _}u\y 25, 1964] 



Klansmen 

Facing 

Arrest 

5 Men Sought 
'; After Bombing ; 



ST. Al'Gl'STINU (API - 
The special ttaie pohrr forrr 
cnck«<l down on the Ku Klux 
Klan Friday Mfirr m (irr txvTtb 
wa* t«vsMd into n plu>h motel 
trapped in an iniri;ratUini.<(- 
a nK Kationisi onvssfirr 

Warrants were sworn luii 
again5t (i\-e men rharcint; thrm* 
with humini! a rroxs on private 
property without permission 
One of th«^m also was oharReil 
with wearing a hood ih.d tx>\- 
ered his face, a violation ot a 
slate law . 

The wamkMl* were the ftntl 
to be awom out a(»ln«t lead- 
era of the Klaa movemeat 
ataee this elty'a raHal turmoil ;', 
started two moaths aco. 

] Hours before the warmnis 
■were sworn out by the special 
police force, ^ gallon juk of 
I inflammable liquid wa.s tos.<ied 



thi-nugh a window of the trmpo- 
irarily integrated Monson MiMm 
Lodge dining room, then ignited 
jby two Mololov cocktails made 
.with soft drink bottles 

No one vvas in the restaurant 
'when the fire bomb wont off 
iat)out 3 a.m. i 

!Os t a t e Attorney i>nerRl 
{Junes Kynes rushed to the city 
land pledged that law and order 
I would be enforced under the 
I go\'emor"s emergency powers. 

I Tke warraata. algaed by , 
{ Cooaty Judge Cliarleti Mathi* 
' ir.. speelftcall)' charged four 
' oaea with placing a bumlag 
I eroas or ranalag It to be i 
' placed on the property of City i 
I Baking Co. without written 
{ pcmlasloa from tke owaer. 

I Those named were J, B. 
iStoner of Atlanta, an attorney 
,for the Ku Klu.x Klan: Connie 
(Lynch of San Bernardino, 
Calif., a segivgationLst who says 
he is a minister; Paul Cochran,! 
jidentified by the state attorney! 
as a XKK leader in Jackson-' 
jville: and Bill Coleman, a St.' 
; Augustine man the state attor- 
ney said wa!> a KKK leader. 

Cochran aUo was charsed 
Iwifh wearing a hood. Barton' 
Griffin. Stone and Lynch were 
charged with actually burning 
thecroaa. 

Griffln. 35. of Jacksonville, 
jwai charged with actually burn- 
ing the croas. Griffin recently 
iwaa tried and Mcquitted (n a 
case stenuning from the bomb- 
ling d the home qf a boy who 
jhad Integrated a Jarkspnvllle 



'school. State Attorney Dan I 
Warren saW he was Informett. 

Bond on each charge was set 
■at $500. 1 

Kynea asM Roy LUton, I 

I prealdeat of aty BaMag Co., | 

, declared he had not given < 

i permtaaloa to anyone to hold i 

nteetlB^a «■ hla property. i 

The fire bomb was the latest i 
outbreak of violence since white { 
segregationists began picketing! 
businesae* that had at first! 
agreed to serve NegroM under 
the a vil Rights Act. 

The containers reeked of 
kerosene." said the lodge's man- 
ager. James Brock, who hat 
been caught in the middle of the 
long battle between whitw and 
Negroes in the natkMi's oMett 
city. 

He estimated damage at S3,« 
000. moatly from smoke. 

Broek. wk* 
aeW Into the i 

pool In an effort to eloer » af 
N«Vt« deasonatratoea, tal». 
grated the .<Moaao« Mftar 
Lodge after paaaage al Ika 
CI\1I Mghis Act. 

A few days later, however, he 
uid he was forced td stop aerv- 
ing Negroes by threats and 
demons) rations by white a e g t e - 
gationi.Ms. who never have re- 
laxed their efforu to keep the 
races apart 

• Negro pickeu for civU righU 
can hurt your business. " Brock 
told a newaman earlier this 
week, "but white pickeU oppoa- 
ing civil rights can kill it ' 



he oaq^ pawed 

aaeM-aMiMiriiW 



Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Griffin, other than the incidents that I have talked 
to you about, as a leader of a Klan organization, have you ever or- 
dered anyone to carry out an act of violence against a human being ? 

Mr. Griffin. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask this witness. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, I have just one observation. 

Just having returned from Southeast Asia, may I say I am struck 
with the similarity of what we are hearing today and what we have 
heard on other days in hearings like this, and what I have heard con- 
cerning the Viet Cong in South Vietnam, as acts of terrorism and vio- 
lence, the use of force and fear, and as to crimes against people. 

The chairman earlier expressed some hope that the Klan might, 
acting on the information developed by this committee, improve it- 
self and lift its sights, and so forth. 



3688 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

May I say my hopes for the reform and the revival of the Ku Klux 
Klan are approximately equal to my hopes for reforms of the Viet 
Cong, Mr. Chairman. 

No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Appell. Donald Eugene Spegal. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Spegal. I do. 

Mr. Pool, Before you start interrogating the witness, the Chair 
wishes to ask the staff to provide me with the names of the executives 
of the companies that these witnesses today work for. I would like to 
know who the executives of these companies are. 

More specifically, I would like to know which ones are gentiles 
and which ones are Jewish. 

Go ahead, Mr, Appell. 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD EUGENE SPEGAL, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell, State your full name for the record, please. 

Mr. Spegal. Donald Eugene Spegal. 

Mr. Appell. That is S-p-e-g-a-1 ? 

Mr. Spegal. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Spegal. lam, 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Stoner, J. B, Stoner, Marion Building, Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell, Mr, Spegal, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you on January 21, 1966, at "641 
Cassat Avenue," Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr, Spegal, I am, 

Mr. Appell. What is located at 641 Cassat Avenue, Jacksonville, 
Florida? 

Mr. Spegal, I refuse to answer on the ground that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to do so by invoking all of 
my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th. 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, were you furnished a copy of Chairman 
Willis' opening statement of October 1965 and have you read it and 
are you familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Spegal. Yes. 

Mr, Appell, Mr, Spegal, imder the conditions of the subpena served 
upon you and the attachment, which is made a part of the subpena, you 
are commanded to bring with you and to produce before the committee 
documents described in paragraph one : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the orajanization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and aflSliated organizations; namely, Robert E. Lee Klavem # 
513, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained 
by you or available to you as Klokard of the Robert B. Lee Klavern 513, United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3689 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Spegal, 
I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to do so on the grounds that to do might tend 
to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of my 
rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of 
America. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I direct and order you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 1 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your refusal is rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- 
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as Klokard of the Robert E. Lee Klavern 513, United Florida Ku Klux Klan, 
which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require 
to be maintained by you and any other oflScer of said organization, the same 
being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein m the subpena. 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, the committee's investigation establishes 
that you were born on November 24, 1932, although the exact place 
of your birth is not certain. Would you tell the committee where you 
were born ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to do — I refuse to answer on the grounds to do 
so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by in- 
voking my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Spegal. Are you still employed by Florida Carbonic at 3038 
Lennox, in Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. In March of 1964, were you, along with William 
Sterling Eosecrans, Robert Pittman Gentry, Barton H. Griffin, Jacky 
Don Harden, and Willie Eugene Wilson, indicted under two counts 
growing out of the bombing of the residence of Donald Godfrey of 
Jacksonville, Florida? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the ground previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, William Rosecrans testified that he came 
to the Jacksonville, Florida, area because you were known to his 



3690 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 

brother. Were you responsible for William Kosecrans coming to the 
Jacksonville, Florida, area ? 

Mr. Spegal,. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Was there any discussion between yourself and other 
members of the Klan that because of William Kosecrans' violent hatred 
of Negroes and his criminal record that you could get him to bomb the 
Donald Godfrey residence ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you participate in the stealing of dynamite in 
December of 1963 — 13 cases containing 165 sticks each? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, was the testimony which you gave in the 
trial truthful? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, after the bombing of the Godfrey resi- 
dence, Mr. Eosecrans discovered that agents whom he believed to be 
FBI were approaching the trailer home in which he lived, and he left 
hurriedly and hid overnight in a partially constructed home. 

Did you take Kosecrans from the place where he was hiding to the 
home of a Herbert Morris in Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Holstead Manucy, who was popularly 
known as "Hoss" Manucy ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Appell. Do you know his brother, Herbert Manucy ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you attempt to contact "Hoss" Manucy by con- 
tacting his brother Herbert for the purpose of hiding William Kose- 
crans ? 

Mr, Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, did you make contact with Klansmen in 
the St. Augustine area by placing a call to "Hoss" Manucy at his 
brother's residence, Herbert Manucy ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Following this telephone call, did Buddie Cooper come 
to Jacksonville from St. Augustine and pick William Kosecrans up 
and take him to the St. Augustine area ? 

Mr. Spegal, I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know "Hoss" Manucy to be a member of the 
Klan? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell, Did you, as well as Bart Griffin and Kobert Gentry, 
have deputy sheriff cars issued to you by Sheriff L. O. Davis of St. 
John's County, Florida ? 

Mr. Spegal, I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Appell, Mr. Spegal, did you testify truthfully during your 
trial in July and again in November of 1964 ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Spegal, was some of the dynamite used to bomb 
the Godfrey residence stored in your garage ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX EXAN EST THE U.S. 3691 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Was the bomb manufactured in your garage, and did 
you assist William Rosecrans in the manufacture of the bomb ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Spegal, I show you five photographs of dynamite, 
fuses, a can with dynamite, a footlocker with dynamite, which was 
recovered on a highway on March 20, 1964. 

Testimony was given at the trial that some of this dynamite had the 
fingerprints of William Rosecrans on the sticks of dynamite. How- 
ever, William Rosecrans was incarcerated at that time. 

After you review these photographs, I ask you if you possess any 
knowledge of how that dynamite got on to the highway and thereby 
permitted the law enforcement authorities to recover it. 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Photographs marked "Donald Spegal Exhibit No. 1" appear on 
pp. 3692, 3693.) 

Mr. Appell. As a member of the Ku Klux Klan, did you ever en- 
gage in any acts of violence in Jacksonville- St. Augustine, Florida, 
area? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. During the summer of 1964, did you travel to St. 
Augustine, Florida, in order to give assistance as it might be needed 
by Klansmen in the St. Augustine area ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Are you acquainted with how a grenade can be manu- 
factured by putting dynamite and nuts and bolts in a can and fusing it ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever discuss the use of such a grenade against 
any establishment in the Jacksonville, Florida, area ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. When you visited Rosecrans in jail, did you advise him 
that counsel had been retained for him ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Who arranged for counsel for William Rosecrans? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you presently hold an office in a Ku Klux Klan 
organization ? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask this witness. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan? 

Mr. Buchanan. I notice you as well as your counsel are wearing bow 
ties with two Confederate flags, one on each side. Is that an insignia 
of either your Klan organization or any other organization? 

Mr. Spegal. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Buchanan. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Appell. Willie Eugene Wilson. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Wilson. I do. 



3692 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Donald Spegal Exhibit No. 1 










ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Donald Spegal Exhibit No. 1 — Continued 



3693 



•■?' 

I'd 



\j V "^i 



^' 








Photographs of dynamite stolen by Jacksonville Klansmen and discarded following 

their arrests. 



3694 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIE EUGENE WILSON, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, please. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. Willie Eugene Wilson. 

Mr. Appell. Do you spell Willie with a "y" or an "ie" ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. W-i-1-l-i-e. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr, Appell. Mr. Wilson, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you at "614 Cassatt Avenue," Jack- 
sonville, Florida, on January 20, 1966 ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Have you been furnished a copy of the chairman's open- 
ing statement of October 1965 and do you understand the contents 
therein ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. You don't care to examine it any further? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. No, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, the subpena served upon you contains an 
attachment, which under the terms of the subpena was made a part of 
the subpena, and under the terms of the subpena, in paragraph 1, you 
were commanded to bring with you and to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and aflSliated organizations ; namely, Robert E. Lee Klavern 
# 513, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Robert 
E. Lee Klavem #513, United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity as set forth in paragraph 1, I ask 
you to produce the documents called for, 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to do so on the grounds that to do 
so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all 
of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your reasons are rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator and pursuant also to the terms of the subpena, paragraph 
1, and I order you to produce the documents called for therein, in the 
representative capacity stated in the subpena. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your refusal is rejected by the committee. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2, Mr. Wilson, reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee Klavem #513, United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organiza- 
tion authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other oflScer of 
said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3695 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the called-for documents. 

Mr. WnxiE Wilson. I refuse to do so on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse on the grounds previous stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, were you born on March 8, 1925, at Brox- 
ton, Georgia, and did you serve in the United States Navy from Sep- 
tember 3, 1943, to December 11, 1945, and in the U.S. Navy Keserve 
from August 17, 1949, to November 26, 1951, with all discharges being 
honorable ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do 
so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and 16th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Are you part owner of a concern known as S & W Re- 
builders, Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you replace Barton H. Griffin as the exalted Cy- 
clops of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 13 ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse on the grounds previous stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, in March of 1964, were you indicted, along 
with William Sterling Rosecrans, Robert Pittman Gentry, Barton 
H. Griffin, Jacky Don Harden, Donald Eugene Spegal, on a two-count 
indictment growing out of the bombing of the residence of Donald 
Godfrey? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. I don't blame you for using the fifth amendment there. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, in the course of the trial, did you testify 
that you then resided at 4741 Cambridge Road, Jacksonville, and 
were then employed by the Hunter Armature Motor Works in Jack- 
sonville ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. During your testimony, did you admit that you were 
a member of the Klan and that you had held a temporary State 
office ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you identify Barton Griffin as acting exalted 
Cyclops at a meeting you attended on the night of February 15, 1964? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you identify Jacky Don Harden as the exalted 
Cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 



3696 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Did you also testify that you accompanied Gene Spegal 
and Bart Griffin on a trip to St. John's County jail for the purpose of 
visiting Rosecrans, after Rosecrans' arrest ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you deny during the course of your trial that you 
participated in planning the bombing of the Godfrey residence ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Was your testimony with respect to your knowledge 
and participation in the bombing of the Donald Godfrey residence 
truthful? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you accompany Bart H. Griffin to Mobile, Ala- 
bama, in November of 1964 for the purpose of attending a National 
States Rights Party meeting ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you and Bart Griffin introduced at that meeting 
as white Southern patriots who had been framed by the Federal Bu- 
reau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In connection with the Godfrey trial, were you framed 
by the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Wlllie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, the Thunderbolt publication of the Na- 
tional States Rights Party, issue of June 1965, contains a photograph, 
I might say, of yourself and identifies W. E. Wilson as National States 
Rights Party director for Duval County, Florida. 

Is this information factual ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Willie Wilson Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Appell. The October 1965 issue of the Thunderbolt contains 
a story by W. Eugene (Gene) Wilson in which I find that there are 
these statements : 

In the election campaign, as always, we want every real White person in Duval 
County to know that we are against the Jews ; against the negroes ; against the 
communists ; and against the F.B.I, because all of those groups are a part of the 
Jewish conspiracy against White Christian America. The F.B.I, is controlled by 
the Jew-communists, is a political police and is making every effort to destroy the 
Constitutional rights of us White people and to give the cannibals special 
privilege over us. * * * 

The committee would be very much interested, Mr. Wilson, in any 
evidence that you might be able to supply it that the FBI is controlled 
by the Jewish Communists, is a political force, and of course is making 
every effort to destroy the rights of white people. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Willie Wilson Exhibit No. 2" follows:) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN INT THE U.S. 



3697 



Willie Wilson Exhibit No. 2 
[The Thunderbolt, Oct. 1965] 



PAGE FOLIR 



FLORIDA REPORT 

NSRP TO BE ON MAY BALLOT 



By W. FjiEene ;Gene) Wilson 
Director, i.u:A County, Florida 

N.S.R.P. 

Office address 643 Cassai Ave. 

P. O. Box 6075, Jacksonville, Fla. 

32205 

Phones 384-3888 and 384-1932 




Here In Florida, the old corrupt 
parties have placed unconstitu- 
tional laws In our Florida Sta- 
tutes which make it too difficult 
fw aac«h«r pollUcal party to get 
on the general election ballot. 
Therefore, since we are effec- 
tively barred, for the time being, 
from being on the general elec- 
tion ballot, we are legally entit- 
led to participate in the primar- 
ies of the old parties. It is ne- 
cessary for us to use their elec- 
tion machinery. Since both the 
Democratic and Republican par- 
ties are controlled by the Jews 
and are against us White p>eople, 
our choice of primaries is based 
upon only one thing: we will use 
the primary that will best serve 
the N.S.R.P.'s purposes, princi- 
ples, and platform. Therefore, we 
shall use the Democratic primary 
in Duval i, ounty In 1966 and func- 
tion as a party vdthin a party. 

In LXinal C ounty, we shall run 
our N.*^ R.i'. candidal es in the 
Democratic prlmarv in May on 
Che N.S.R.P. platform. We will 
make every tifart co el«ct our 
candidates to both houses cft the 
Florida leglaUnire, bochtheSm- 
ate and the house. Also, we hope 
to elect a Congressman In this 
district. All (rf our candidates 
will speak In plain words so that 



everybody who Is against the 
Jews, negroes and communists 
will know to vote for our candi- 
dates. Far from being subtle, in 
this forthcoming election cam- 
paign, we will call a spade a 
spade, a dog a dog, a snake a 
snake, a Jew a Jew, a canoibal 
a cannibal and a communist a 
traitor who Is controlled by the 
Jews. 

Enomtos Homed 

We White Christian patriots in 
the N.S.R.P. have friends and we 
hatve aiemles and we can't win 
unless we clearly and pointedly 
identify our enemies. As intelli- 
gent people, we are against our 
enemies. In the election cam- 
paign, as always, we want every 
real White person In EXival Coun- 
ty to know that we are against 
the Jews; against the negroes; 
■gainst the communists; and 
against the F.B.I, because all ct 
[hose groins are a part of the 
JavlBh conspiracy against White 
Cbristlm ABiericB. The P.B.I. 
1« coatrolled by the Jew-com- 
rainiiMS, Is a p<^tlcal police and 
is BMklng every effort todestroy 
the C(»stltutional rights of ua 
White people and to give the can- 
nibals special privilege over us. 
They are against us and we are 
against them. By letting the good 
White people of this county know 
where we stand, they will vote for 
the candidates of the National 
States Rights Party. If we made 
the mistake of "beating around 
the bush" and evading Issues 
during the campaign, we would 
be wastlag our time. The White 
citizens of this county are 
demanding candidates who will 
stand up for the White people and 
tell the negroes that they are not 
welcome in Florida and to move 
out. 

NSRP on Ba llot 

We are getting ready for the 
May primary now, but will not 



select our candidates until the 
qualifying deadline draws near. 
We will make every effort to de- 
feat Congressman Charles E, 
Bennett and replace him with a 
real White man, a member of the 
Natlwial States Rights Party. 
Since he is running after the 
black vote with all of his 
strength, he is not entitled to the 
vote (A even one White person. 
He has won so much favor with 
the negroes that his regular col- 
umn Is now carried in a negro 
weekly, "The Jacksonville Ad- 
vocate." He loves the negroes so 
much that he enthusiastically vio- 
lates the U. S. Constitution; he 
violated it by supporting the so- 
called federal voting rights bill 
which clearly violated the provi- 
sion of the Constitution that gives 
the states the right to set the 
qualifications of their own voters 
and to regulate their own elec- 
tions. Congressman Bennett is 
the worst enemy that states rights 
have had in Florida since leftist 
Claude Pepper came along. He 
must be defeated in the May pri- 
mary with a Congressman who 
will represent us White people. 
Duval County will have more 
seats In the legislature which Is 
to be elected in Viay. If you are 
willing to help in ibis campaign. 
phone me or come tv mv office 
to see me. 

Activities Listed 

If we are to win the May elec- 
tions, we must become better or - 
gaiUzed and more active. Present 
members must goout of their way 
to attend their chapter meeting 
each week and do their part in 
carrying on the program <rf our 
National States Rights Party. 
Those members at large who are 
not participating in chapter ac- 
tivity should contact me about 
either joining an existing chapter 
or helping in the formation of 
more chapters. 



3698 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 

Willie Wilson Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



NSRP Intends 
To Take Power 

The National Slates Rights 
Party Is one d the few organiza- 
tions that Isn't afraid to say where 
it stands and to offer a program 
to solve the actual problems with 
which we are confronted. We offer 
a political program and seek to 
come to power with only legal 
means. With ihepower of govern- 
ment, we wUl be safe and our 
enemies will be ruined. If we are 
active In other fields and neglect 
the political, we are squander- 
li^ our money and our time. We 
Whites have neglected the politi- 
cal field (00 long; yet, this Is 
where w* will gaift the most for 
our White race In proportion to 
the rffort that we make. If you are 
a loyal White man, belong to 
other organizations, but unite 
with other real White men In the 
N.S.R.P. to win vIct<M^ and power 
for us White Christian patriots. 
We must win county, state and 
national political power so that 
we can then purify our country 
and drive all of our enemies 
out before t|Ky destroy us. We 
are. In fact, engaged In a struggle 
f or survival and an y White person 
"who doesn't realize urjusi simp- 
ly doesn't know the facts. 

By a concentration of efforts 
on politics, we Whites, If pro- 
perly organized, and not frag- 
mented by unrealistic schemes 
and disrupters, can easily cap- 
ture the power that political vic- 
tory brings. Any serious program 
to save the White race must con- 
template making the maximum 
use of power both before and af- 
ter capture of the political means. 

St. Augustine Victory 

We Whites must not be divided 
in our alleglaac6 to our wonder- 
ful White race. As was clearly 
demonstrated in St. Augustine 
in the Summer of 1964, Protes- 
tants and Catholics can and did 



work together and deal Martin 
LucUer Koon and his black mobs 
their most crushing defeat. We 
don't care which church you go to 
on Sunday, if you are a real 
White man <x woman, we want 
you in the National States Rights 
Party. We have Protestants and 
Catholics In the N.S.R.P.; the 
tiling that counts with us is that 
they are White. We have Ca- 
tholics and Klansmen In our Par- 
ty. Please tell your Klan friends 
and your Catholic friends that 
they are welcome in the National 
States Rights Parry if they are 
loyal to the White Race. 

All of us White people have a 
common heritage and, as a race, 
we Whites will all share the same 
destiny; either death by an ad- 
mixture of African blood, or life 
for our White people by winning 
the powers of government through 
poUtlcal action and getting rid of 
our enemies. In this racial stnig- 
%im. we rMi VVhlte people, those 
of us who loive our race, are all 
in the same boat. TTiat Is true 
regardless of whether we were 
bom in America, Europe or any- 
where else. TTiat Is true regard- 
less of the fact that we go to dif- 
ferent churches and regardless 
of different Ideas that each of us 
get from reading the Bible. The 
existence of our White race is 
threatened throughout the world 
which means that we must have a 
common racial loyalty if we are 
to survive. It is the Jews, the 
master race-mixers, who mainly 
try to incite White Protestants 
and White CAholics against each 
other so that fvU Jewish domina- 
tion of our cMUry may continue. 
The Jews n^ fall In their ef- 
forts to divide us Whites. 

We don't h«ye anything in com- 
mon with any negro, even If his 
birth plac« iiaf^ens to be in 
America -^ even If he claims to 
be a Protestant or a Catholic. We 
don't want any part of any negro 
and detest the sight as well as the 
smell of them. The farther they 



are from us the better. I enrtploy 
no negroes In my home or In 
my business and never will; that 
Is the policy of the National 
States Rights Party and one of the 
reasons why I am dedicated to Che 
N.S,R.P. 

Great Campaign 
Planned 

I hope that N.S.R.P. leaders 
In other Florida counties will also 
run candidates for the legislature 
in the May primaries on the 
N.S.R.P.'s platform and that they 
will take an open stand against 
the jews and negroes as we will 
do in this county. 

As a prelude to the election 
campaign, we will hold open air 
rallies in the Jacksonville area 
as soon as Connie Lynch re- 




Wcll said Sir— or Madaai 



turns. At these N.S.R.P. rallies, 
he will be joined on the platform 
by Dr. Edward R. Fields and J. R^ 
Stoner from Augusta, as well .i^ 
local speakers. Be sure to notify 
your friends and have them also 
attend the most dynamic rallies in 
the Country. We mean business. 
Work with us. We of the National 
States Rights Party Intend to win 
the 1966 May primary in Duval 
County. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3699 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, let me ask you whether or not in October 
of 1965 you were a member of the Klan, also. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is it the purpose of the Klan to make these charges 
without having any facts with which to support them ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I see here that, "We will make every effort to defeat 
Congressman Charles E. Bennett and replace him with a real White 
man." 

What is a "real White man"? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Connie Lynch and Dr. Edward K. Fields 
to be members of the Klan ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Talking about a campaign that the Duval County Na- 
tional States Rights Party intended to put on, it is reported in this 
article by you : 

As a. prelude to the election campaign, we will hold open air rallies in the Jack- 
sonville area as soon as Connie Lynch returns. * * * 

Connie Lynch, it is my understanding, is a Californian. Why is it 
necessary to have Connie Lynch before you conduct campaigns m the 
State of Florida ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, is there anything else in that article you were 
reading about Congressman Bennett that was derogatory ? 

Mr. Appell. They say Mr. Bennett is — 

running after the black vote with all of his strength, he is not entitled to 
the vote of even one White person. He has won so much favor with the negroes 
that his regular column is now carried in a negro weekly, "The Jacksonville 
Advocate." He loves the negroes so much that he enthusiastically violates the 
U.S. Constitution ; he violated it by supporting the so-called federal voting rights 
bill which clearly violated the provision of the Constitution that gives the states 
the right to set the qualifications of their own voters and to regulate their own 
elections. * * * 

Mr. Pool. Do you agree with this statement ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. You are taking the fifth amendment on this statement, 
also? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. On all the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. For your information, Congressman Bennett is one of 
the outstanding Congressmen in Congress, and this is your chance to 
explain this and whether you agree with this or not. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr, Pool. It is an insult to Congressman Bennett and it is an insult 
to the whole membership of the House for this type of propaganda to 
be put out. It is not based on any fact. Somebody didn't like him, so 
they just cut loose. 



3700 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

I am trying to find out if you agree with that. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Pool. I hope Congressman Bennett hears about this and tells 
the people in Florida that you took the fifth amendment when you had 
a chance to back this up or back down. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask this witness. 

Mr. Buchanan. Along the lines you just mentioned, Mr. Chairman, 
this Thunderbolt magazme in its November issue describes the mem- 
bers of this subcommittee as pro-Communist, anti-Constitution, and 
dangerous enemies to America. 

I just wanted you to know that they are bipartisan in their slander. 

Mr. Wilson, concerning the remarks in this Thunderbolt issue, at- 
tributed to you, I believe, this article concerning the FBI, are you 
aware, sir, that this organization under the brilliant leadership of 
J. Edgar Hoover has distinguished itself in fighting both crime and 
communism in this country ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on all the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Buchanan. Is it not true that all of the charges you make 
against the Federal Bureau of Investigation are totally unfounded ? 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. This is the forum for the Ku Klux Klan to state its case, 
and you refuse to testify. This is your chance to come before this com- 
mittee to say what is true, and you refuse to do it, by taking the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Willie Wilson. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Appell. No further questions. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Appell. Buddie S. Cooper. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. CoopEK. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF BUDDIE SAMMY COOPER, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Cooper. 

Mr. Cooper. Buddie S. Cooper. 

Mr. Appell. The "S" stands for? 

Mr. Cooper. Sammy. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Cooper. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3701 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, Marion Building, Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cooper, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you at St. Augustine, Florida, on 
JanuaiT 25, 1966? 

Mr. Cooper. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Are you familiar with the contents of the chairman's 
opening statement of October 1965 .and understand the contents 
therein ? 

Mr. Cooper. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appeix. Mr. Cooper, the subpena served upon you contained 
an attachment, and under the terms of the subpena you were com- 
manded to bring with you and produce documents set forth in the 
attachment. Paragraph 1 reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and aflSliated organizations; namely, St. Augustine Klavem 
# 519, St. Augustine, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, St. 
Augustine Klavern # 519, United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse on the grounds to do so might tend to incrim- 
inate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and privileges 
under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments of 
the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 1 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therem in the subpena. 

Mr. Cooper. Sir, I refuse on the same grounds that I used before. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cooper, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your 
capacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops, St. Augustine Klavern #519, 
United Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and L^aws" of said orga- 
nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of 
said organization, the same being in yovir possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, 1 ask you to 
produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for "by this part of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

69-222 O— 67— pt. 5—^5 



3702 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cooper, were you born on October 2, 1937, at Bed- 
ford, Virginia ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so may 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all 
of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Do you reside at 108 Surfside Avenue, Vilano Beach, 
St. Augustine, Florida ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Are you currently employed as a bartender at Surf 
Side Casino and as a surveyor for the Pacetti company at 58 Hypolita 
Street, St. Augustine, Florida ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse on the ground previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Your education is that of a ninth grade ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cooper, do you know Donald L. Booth ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you and Donald L. Booth maintain a checking 
account at The St. Augustine National Bank, St. Augustine, Florida, 
and is this an account in which the St. Augustine Klavem 519 funds 
are kept ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I show you a copy of a bank signature card containing 
signatures of Donald L. Booth and Buddie S. Cooper. I ask you if the 
signature of Buddie S. Cooper is your signature. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 

Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 1 



'.^':.L*Lij'>i!i^'.M^i V^^ 



900?!! ft COOPpR 



iC Nf Aii'.'>-iM" 



JSOjo'AS'Mt Vl^STiftNf, HA10W-X BA-'tlc Of ST. AUoi'S' ;■-. 

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• iholi be w » - sjOvernSti^ h^rdiwy ' i •■•^w cHect- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3703 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Duval Sportsmen Lodge, 
Jacksonville, Florida, is an account to which Klaverns of the United 
Florida Klans pay their per capita assessement. 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I hand you a copy of a notice from the Florida Dealers 
and Growers Bank dated September 3, 1965, to the Duval Sportsmen 
Lodge, advising them that a check drawn against the account of 
Booth and Cooper in the amount of $18 was debited to their account 
because Booth and Cooper account was insufficient funds. 

I ask you if that check in the amount of $18 was a payment to the 
United Florida Klans made payable to the Duval Sportsmen Lodge. 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 2" follows:) 

Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 2 



R.OIUDA DEALERS AND GROWERS lANK 

WC CHARGE your occoiyntan4*ii«»un» hAWIfij vmptid Joeksonvill*, Hc^-'..... )M**f 



NKAtON 


DRAWN OM. 


oiiAWM av 




AMOUNT • 


X 


63-5J 


•OCfft k 0OB|^.. 




18.00 




". ' ■ • 


■ "• ••• '.' •■ 


TOTAL 


ia«oe 




Kir TO lEASONt *Ot xrWtN 

I. N^ Mdc^at FvMti li tn— MlnM« 

] fcJlrnmiiH Mliilna It. P<irn«M «» »> «< 

I. AecMiri Cltntd IT t.«M>»ia N>< Arikwb«4 

4. Auaiwrt ttttttinmi II S:a«««r« Not C*mct 

I. ••M AkM4 It WlhWM M Mo* 

4. %*m*mtm AHsraHMi M. bviN^ Acc«M# Mat 
t. •mtmH* Aiim h I S<iI>I«c4 M Owck 

1 Bm W I m C««»»nnMm II U>c*H«c«W CMi* 

« Ha AacaMt n. tl«u«m Mulat 

m. Wa Na * a Wa «o «■« K f j iir <» |« >l 

m! |ljpi»in tfaai iM>) airaa 
vtkaaa aa Ma 

■• •»io>"0 2> wf*^? /ooooooiaoo/ 



Mr. Appell. Is the Surf Side Casino leased by the St. Augustine 
Klan and used as its meeting place ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I hand you some checks payable to The St. Augustine 
National Bank in the amount of $75, two signed by Booth and one by 
Cooper. 

I put it to you as a fact that these checks are payable to the bank 
as the conditions of a lease whereby the Surf Side Casino is used by 
the Klan. 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(Checks marked "Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 3." One of said checks 
appears on p. 3704; others retained in committee files.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cooper, what is the relationship between the Klan 
and the hunting club which is allegedly operated by "Hoss" Manucy ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Are you familiar with an organization known as 
Manucy's Raiders ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you hold a title of lieutenant or captain within this 
organization ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know William Rosecrans ? 





37€4 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Buddie Cooper Exhibit No. 3 

■•\S( Aii*>iistinf, noHda JMK 1 ^ ''^ ''^ ^' 

le St.Augustiae National litmk 

' ' ^ ■'"• ^ Yli, 81. teiMttM %i^'mA latl, It »«;5srt«B, Hi, 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. In response to a request of Eugene Spegal, did you 
travel to Jacksonville, Florida, to pick up William Rosecrans to bring 
him to St. Augustine, Florida, and obtain for him employment at 
Nick's Boat Yard, with him using the alias of James Lewis ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you and other Klansmen ever use the facilities of 
Sheriff L. O. Davis for conducting Klan meetings ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Wliat knowledge do you possess of the number of 
Klansmen who were deputized as special deputies by Sheriff L. O. 
Davis? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. In an interview which "Hoss" Manucy gave to a re- 
porter which appeared in the June 4, 1964, issue of the Miami Herald. 
Mr. Manucy talked about the two-way radios maintained by members 
of his organization, which he described to be the Ancient City Hunting 
Club. 

What know^ledge do you possess of the use of the two-way radios for 
purposes of carrying out acts of violence in the summer of 1964 in St. 
Augustine, Florida ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. What knowledge do you posess of the participation of 
the Klan in picketing against restaurants and other business establish- 
ments in St. Augustine which, in compliance with the Federal law, 
integrated their establishments ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. What participation did you engage in with respect to 
violence as a member of a Klan organization ? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answ^er on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Manucy testified that members of his organizations 
do not carry guns on their persons, but in their cars. What knowledge 
do you possess of the arming of members of the Ancient City Hunting 
Club? 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Molotov cocktails were thrown into the office of the 
Munson Motor Lodge in St. Augustine. What knowledge do you 
possess of that, Mr. Cooper ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3705 

Mr. Cooper. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Appell. Kenneth Overstreet. 

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Overstreet. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF KENNETH MARVIN OVERSTREET, ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Overstreet, would you state your full name for the 
record, please ? 

Mr. Overstreet. Kenneth Marvin Overstreet. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Overstreet. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, 
Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Overstreet, are you appearing here today in ac- 
cordance with a subpena served upon you in Jacksonville, Florida, on 
January 24, 1966? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Overstreet. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Have you been furnished a copy of the chairman's open- 
ing statement of October 1965 ? 

Mr. Overstreet. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Are you familiar with the contents therein ? 

Mr. Overstreet. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Overstreet, the subpena served upon you contained 
an attachment, which is made a part of the subpena, and under the 
conditions of the subpena you were commanded to bring with you 
documents set fortli in two paragraphs of that subpena. Paragraph 
1 reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations; namely, the Robert E. Lee Klavem 
# 506, Jacksonville, Florida, in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops. Robert 
E. Lee Klavem # 506 of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in that document, Mr. Over- 
street, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. 0\t:rstreet. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend 
to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by part 1 of the subpena do not legally jus- 
tify your refusal, and your reasons are rejected. 



3706 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 1 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. OvERSTREET. I ref use on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2, Mr. Overstreet, calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capac- 
ity as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Robert E. Lee Klavem # 506 of the 
United Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said or- 
ganization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of 
said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have stated for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for in paragraph 2 of the subpena do not legally 
justify your refusal, and your answer is, therefore, rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce the documents called for by the 
interrogator in response to paragraph 2 of the subpena in your repre- 
sentative capacity stated therein in the subpena. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is rejected. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Overstreet, I put it to you as a fact that you were 
born on August 27, 1923, at Jacksonville, Florida. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the grounds to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th., 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you reside at 3211 Phyllis 
Avenue, Jacksonville, and are employed as a shipping and receiving 
clerk at the Patterson Cold Storage Company, 2481 Dennis Street, 
Jacksonville. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you have a seventh-grade 
education and that you were honorably discharged from the United 
States Marine Corps with the rank of corporal after serving from 
September 30, 1942, to November 3, 1945. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you joined the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan in 1963 and that you became in 1965 the exalted 
Cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavem No. 506. 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Overstreet, do you know a Bart H. Griffin ? 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did Mr. Griffin lend to you a flare gun which you 
attempted to fire into the residence of Donald Godfrey in Jackson- 
ville, Florida ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3707 

Mr. OvERSTREET. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Does Klavem No. 506 in Jacksonville hold its meet- 
ings at 532 Ricker Road, Jacksonville, at 1448 Wolf Street in Jack- 
sonville, and at 974 Crest Drive East, Jacksonville, Florida? 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Malcolm Lee Sellers ? 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In March of 1965 did you have a discussion with Sell- 
ers relative to the need to kill Martin Luther King ? 

Mr. Overstreet. I refuse on grounds previously stated to answer. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
this witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

The committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock Wednesday 
morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5:20 p.m., Monday, February 21, 1966, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, February 23, 
1966.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 1966 

United States House of Eepresentatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D.C. 
public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as 
reconstituted for the February 23 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, 
at 10 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Wash- 
ington, D.C, Hon. Charles L. Weltner, presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, 
chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and John H. Buchanan, 
Jr., of Alabama.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and 
Buchanan. 

Staff members present : Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Donald T. Appell, 
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. 

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will be in order. 

The designation of the chairman of the committee constituting as 
a subcommittee to sit for today Messrs. Pool, Buchanan, and myself 
will be entered in the record at this point: 

February 17, 1966. 
To I Mr. Francis J. McNamara, 
Director, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
consisting of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. 
Weltner and Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hear- 
ings in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday, February 23, 1966, as contemplated by 
the resolution adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, au- 
thorizing hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organi- 
zations in the United States. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 17th day of February, 1966. 

/s/ Edwin E. Willis 
Edwin E. Willis 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Call your first witness, Mr. Appell. 
Mr. Appell. Noel Woodrow Wood. 
Mr. Weltner. Raise your right hand, please. 

3709 



3710 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this 
hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Wood. I do. 

Mr. Weltner. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

TESTIMONY OF NOEL WOODROW WOOD, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, would you state your full name for the 
record, please? 

Mr. Weltner. The rules of the House prohibit taking photographs 
during the course of testimony. 

Mr. Appell. Would you state your name for the record, please? 

Mr. Wood. Noel Woodrow Wood. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Wood? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Will counsel give his name, please? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, 
Augusta, Georgia. 

I was told I didn't have to stand up the other day. 

Mr. Weltner. This is just to show that your client is represented 
by counsel. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you at 8206 Phillips Highway, Jack- 
sonville, Florida, on February 14, 1966 ? 

Mr. Wood. I am. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, under the terms of the subpena, an attach- 
ment, which is made a part of the subpena, you were directed to 
bring with you and to produce documents described in two paragraphs. 

Paragraph 1 reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or 
available to you as present or former Grand Titan, United Florida Ku Klux 
Klan, 

Before asking you to produce those documents called for in para- 
graph 1, Mr. Wood, I ask you if you have received a copy of the 
chairman's opening statement of October 1965 and whether you are 
familiar with the contents thereof. 

Mr. Wood. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. I will now ask you, Mr. Wood, in the representative 
capacity set forth in paragraph 1, to produce the documents called 
for. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to in- 
criminate me and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, I can hear you, but the committee members 
probably cannot. 

Would you pull the microphone closer to you and talk into it ; we 
will appreciate it. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3711 

Mr. Weltner. The witness' response to the request has been heard, 
and it is not necessary to repeat it. 

Mr. Wood, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusing 
to produce those documents and, accordingly, the committee directs 
you to produce them at this point. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You have at this point, Mr. Wood, an opportunity 
to present to the committee a reason why you would be unable to 
comply with those commands, such as the unavailability of the docu- 
ments to you, if it be the case, or you do not have possession or custody 
or control of them ; you have that opportunity at this point to so state. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- 
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Grand Titan, United Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the 
"Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be 
maintained by you and any other oflBcer of said organization, the same being in 
your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, Mr. Wood, 
I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee directs you to produce the documents 
called for in paragraph 2 at this time. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, when and where were you born ? 

(Witness confers with counsel. ) 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, lOth, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to 
affirm or deny the fact, that you were born on August 24, 1935, at 
Macclenny, Florida, and that you are presently employed by General 
Motors at Jacksonville, Florida, and that you reside at 9616 Melvina 
Road, Box 911 D, at Mandarin, Florida. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the gromids previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you served in the United 
States Navy from August 1952 to August 1956, that you were hon- 
orably released and transferred to the United States Navy Reserve, 
from which you were discharged in August of 1960. 

Mr. Wood. I refused to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, are you currently a member of a Ku Klux 
Klan organization? 

Mr, Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, I put it to you as a fact that you attended 
meetings of the Nassau Klavern No. 10, United Florida Ku Klux Klan 
at Yule, Florida, and in 1964 you were apppointed the grand titan for 
Province No. 5, and I ask you to affirm or deny that, sir. 



3712 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, as a member of the United Florida Klan, 
were you active in agitational activities carried out by the Klan in St. 
Augustine, Florida? 

Mr. Weltner. Let's define the term "agitational activities." Re- 
phrase the question. 

Mr. Appell. As a member of the Klan, did you engage in any acts 
of intimidation, threats, or violence in St. Augustine, Florida? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, the Nem York Times of May 4, 1964, in a 
story datelined Jacksonville, Florida, refers to a rally sponsored by 
the Klan and to a street walk or parade. The article reads : 

It wa« diflScult to ascertain which Klan group was in charge. The parade was 
arranged by Woodrow "Woods, [sic] who calls himself the Grand Titan of the 
United Klans of Florida. Some knights who wear black robes call themselves 
the Knights of the Golden Eagle. One leader identifies himself as a Kleagle 
(organizer) from Augusta, Ga. 

Are you the Woodrow Wood identified in this story ? 

Mr. Wood. I refused to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document previously marked "Barton Griffin Exhibit No. 1." 
See p. 3686.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, are you familiar with a John Edward Land 
of Calhoun, Florida? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wood, investigation by the committee established 
that on September 16, 1963, a group of Klansmen called at the Land 
residence and when Land answered the door was advised that a man 
seated in an automobile desired to talk to him. 

As Land left his residence headed for the car, he was hit on the back 
of the head and forced into the car. In the automobile he was hit with 
a pistol and ordered to lie down where he could not be observed. 

He was driven some 10 miles from his home to a point on State 
Highway 18 where he was further beaten, warned, and abandoned. 
He was treated at the Humphreys Memorial Hospital at Fernandina 
Beach, Florida, for the injuries sustained, and cuts sustained by the 
beating required five or six stitches. 

Do you have any knowledge of this, Mr. Wood ? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on the groimds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you one of those involved in taking this 62-year- 
old white man from his residence and beating him as I have described ? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Was Glen Knouse and Virgie Glen and James Edward 
Higginbotham also involved in that, sir ? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you were one of those in- 
volved and I ask you to affirm or deny that. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3713 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. It is the committee's understanding that the reason 
this beating was inflicted upon Mr. Land was that he was suspected 
of having an affair with a Negro woman, and he was 62 years of age. 
Is this factual, Mr. Wood ? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. On March 7, 1965, did you attend a meeting of State 
officers and exalted cyclops of the United Florida Klan, United Florida 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, at Samsula, Florida? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the' grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At this meeting, did you resign the office of grand titan 
of Province No. 5 ? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you replaced by C. L. Wilson of Jacksonville, 
Florida? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the gi'ounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Are you today a member of any Ku Klux Klan orga- 
nization? 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask of this witness. 

Mr. AVeltner. Do you have any questions of this witness, Mr. 
Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. How many men were allegedly involved in this 
flogging, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. Our investigation has identified four. 

Mr. Buchanan. It must take great courage for four men to beat up 
one 62-year-old man. 

I am interested, also, in the fact that this group apparently assumed 
the role of judge and jury and prosecutor in administering their own 
peculiar brand of justice. 

I wonder if the witness considers this kind of activity in harmony 
with our Constitution and with the laws of our society. 

Mr. Wood. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Buchanan. No further questions. 

Mr. Weltner. The witness has at this point an opportunity to pre- 
sent any facts that may be relevant. It is not a question directed to 
him, but it is an opportunity if he desires to take advantage of it. 

There being no response, the witness will be excused. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Robert. Sylvester Arant. 

Mr. Stoner. Is he permanently excused? 

Mr. Weltner. Yes, sir. 

Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in tliis hearing 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Arant. I do. 



3714 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT SYLVESTER ARANT, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record. 

Mr. Arant. Robert Sylvester Arant. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Arant? 

Mr. Arant. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Will counsel state his name, please ? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, did you receive a copy of the chairman's 
opening statement of October 1965 and are you familiar with its 
contents ? 

Mr. Arant. I am. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, are you here today in accordance with a 
subpena served upon you at Route 3, Box 321, Palatka, Florida, on 
February 15, 1966? 

Mr. Arant. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, the subpena served upon you contained an 
attachment and under the terms of the subpena you were directed 
to bring with you and to produce documents set forth in two para- 
graphs of the attachment. 

Paragraph 1 reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations ; namely, the Palatka Klavern, United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by 
you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Palatka Klavern, 
United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capactity set forth in paragraph 1 of the sub- 
pena, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and the 14th 
amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Arant, the committee does not accept your re- 
fusal to produce the documents called for in paragraph 1, and conse- 
quently at this time you are ordered and directed to produce them. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to do so on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You have at this point an opportunity to present to 
the commttee any reason why you would be unable to produce such 
documents, such as lack of custody or possession. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Palatka Klavern, United Florida Ku Klux 
Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and 
require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the 
same being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3715 

Mr. Weltner. The committee directs you to produce the documents 
called for. 

Mr. Arant, I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. Arant. I was born in Palatka — I refuse to answer on all of the 
grounds previously stated. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 14th 
amendents to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to af- 
firm or deny the fact, that you were born at Palatka, Florida, on 
December 3, 1932 ; that you reside at the place where you were served 
your subpena. Route 3, Box 321, Palatka, Florida ; and that you are 
employed by the Hudson Pulp and Paper Corporation, Palatka, 
Florida. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, the Tampa Tribune of September 20, 1963, 
contains a story about four St. Augustine Negroes who were beaten at 
a Klan rally held in St. Augustine, Florida. 

Do you possess any knowledge with respect to the beating of four 
Negroes at a Klan rally in St. Augustine, Florida, in September of 
1963? 

Mr, Arant. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Robert Arant Exhibit No. 1" follows:)* 

Robert Arant Exhibit No. 1 

[Tampa (Fla.) Tribune, Sept. 20, 1963] 

4 St. Augustine Negroes Beaten on Arrival at Klan Rally ; 4 Whites 

Charged 

ST. AUGUSTINE (AP)— Four white men were charged yesterday with assault 
and battery in the beating of four Negroes who drove into a Ku Klux Klan rally. 

A Florida official of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored 
People appealed to U.S. Atty. Gen. Robert Kennedy and Gov. Farris Bryant for 
investigations. 

Bryant, in Jacksonville to attend a State Road Board meeting, said all he knew 
about the case was that four men had been arrested and "it appears the sheriff is 
on top of it." 

The attack occurred near a highway two miles south of the city. The Klan had 
advertised the meetings Wednesday night and last night and distributed leaf- 
lets inviting white persons to attend. 

Sheriff L. O. Davis of St. Johns County said he sped to the rally site after re- 
ceiving a call reporting trouble. Four hooded and robed Klansmen still at the 
scene were taken in custody, he said. 

The car driven by the Negroes was wrecked. They were taken to a St. Augus- 
tine hospital in patrol cars. Three were admitted for treatment of cuts and 
bruises. 

The fourth was treated for a head wound and released. 

"Why they went to a Klan rally I just don't know," Davis said. "They never 
did tell me." 

The Negroes included Dr. R. B. Hayling, 33, a dentist who has been advisor 
to the youth council of the St. Augustine NAACP branch. 

Others were Clyde Jenkins, 35 ; James Hauser, 43, and James Sanders Jackson, 
18, all of St. Augustine. 



3716 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

The four men arrested by the sheriff were from Jacksonville. They posted 
$100 bonds and were released. A hearing was set for Sept. 27. 

The accused men were : Clarence O. Wilson, 29 ; Harmon Davis, 49 ; Lawrence 
A. Bessout, 30, and Dewitt W. Springfield, 46. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, do you know Connie Lynch ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Don Cothran ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know" Gene Fallaw ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Lynch, Cothran, and 
Fallow were the principal speakers at the rally at which these Negroes 
were beaten on September 18, 1963. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you hear Connie Lynch tell the people assembled 
at the rally that he wanted them to sign up, but that they should not 
sign up if they were weak or coward because this Klan was no peace- 
ful organization ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, did you, Joseph H. Bedford^ Albert T. 
Massey, Conrad Lynch, and Gene Fallaw actually participate in the 
beating of those four Negroes ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Arant, will you identify to the committee the offi- 
cers of Palatka-Putnam Klavern which met in Palatka, Florida? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were Delbert Giddings and Foy Smith leaders of 
this Klavern along with yourself ? 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask this witness. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Arant, this is not a question to you, but this is 
an opportunity afforded to you at this time to make any statement 
you care to make. 

Mr. Arant. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. I have no questions. 

Mr. Weltner. The witness is excused, and you may call your next 
witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. John Lee Stoudenmire. 

Mr. Weltner. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this 
hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I do. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3717 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN LEE STOUDENMIRE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, please state your full name for the 
record. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. John Lee Stoudenmire. 

Mr. Appell. You may stay seated. Is that spelled properly in the 
subpena : S-t-o-u-d-e-n-m-i-r-e? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, did you receive a copy of the chair- 
man's opening statement of October 1965 and are you familar with its 
contents ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, are you appearing here today in 
accordance with a subpena served upon you on January 24, 1966, at 
Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, under the terms of that subpena and 
an attachment that was made a part of that subpena, you were directed 
to produce documents set forth in paragraphs contained in the attach- 
ment. 

Paragraph 1 reads : • 

AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan and affiliated organizations namely, Klavern 502, Jacksonville, 
Florida, aka Duval Fellowship Club and Paul Revere Historical Society in your 
possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as Grand 
Klabee (Treasurer) United Florida Ku Klux Klan and Klabee (Treasurer) Jack- 
sonville Klavern 502, United Florida Ku Klux Klan, also known as Duval Fellow- 
ship Club and Paul Revere Historical Society. 

In the representative capacity set forth in the subpena, Mr. Stouden- 
mire, I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 1. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend 
to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and i4th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Stoudenmire, the committee does not accept your 
grounds for refusal to produce the documents called for in paragraph 
1, and accordingly you are directed and ordered to produce those 
documents at this time. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You have at this time an opportunity to present to 
the committee any reasons which you might have which might sub- 
stantiate a failure to produce the documents, either you lack possession 
of them or you do not have custody of them. 

That is an opportunity afforded you at this time. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 16 



3718 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appeoll. Paragraph 2, Mr. Stoudenmire, calls upon you to 

produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your ca- 
pacity as Grand Klabee (Treasurer) United Florida Ku Klux Klan and Klabee 
(Treasurer) Jacksonville Klavern 502, United Florida Ku Klux Klan, also known 
as Duval Fellowship Club and Paul Revere Historical Society of the United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organiza- 
tion authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said 
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask that 
you produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You are directed and ordered to produce the docu- 
ments called for in paragraph 2 at this time. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, I hand you a bank signature card 
covering a checking account in the name of the Fellowship Club 
maintained by the Florida Dealers and Growers Bank, Jacksonville, 
Florida. 

I ask you if the signature contained on this card as the treasurer is 
your signature? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking 
all of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

(Document marked "John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 1 
Fellowship Club , . .' 

iSDi DUAL rt* •. . 



FORM ao DMUMMOND PI»E»» 



Ht.KinA in.M.t.UA AM. (ikOWKtfl BANK iuki^nrUl., KlorUto. U herrtj wt.'wrlMd tn recflintee ...Uj the sit 
im'.i.r h-h't. n p«>rTOifit of fumte or ihe irMMrtlon of uiy „iti»r Ixttlmw for ■; mcoutI li U ««rM>.l by ttw <W 
|M.i>„ il,«i it,re %ra.imi shall bf subject h, «rrtfr rhxrgf- n..* In ffffrt of lh»t uy l^ A-iermUv,} uj).m frnm tin. 
I III.... >M.I ,.1, »J1 iNiUncr. .,f I.SS than f 1(K) ih» vhlH. ^r„n,r dormuii »n(l rrauln so U„ , i»-rl...l ..f ,n muniM . 
ui^.iiilrti»ncr riuirKi- „f i\ (X) («., Bwith Is t,) b. nudr b..|i.,nlrM( mv in.,nihK from tli* .l»it ,rf .),. U--( -mrr 




^^^^-i^jJ^-fd^ ^Xzc^ 



//JUL 












Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, the other signature on the card is 
that of J. Mercer Johns. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to 
affirm or deny the fact, that Mr. Johns is secretary and you are the 
treasurer of a Klavern of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan, Klavern 
No. 502, which uses as its cover name the Fellowship Club? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre-» 
viously stated. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3719 

Mr. Weltner. What is the Fellowship Club, Mr. Stoudemnire ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, I have in my hand a check dated 
May 8, 1964, made payable to B. H. Griffin, who is Barton H. Griffin, 
one of those indicted in the bombing of the Donald Godfrey home, 
later found not guilty. The check is in the amount of $25. The 
check is drawn against the account of the Fellowship Club. It is co- 
signed by you and J. Mercer Johns. 

Can you tell us the purpose for which this check was drawn? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Check marked "John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 2" appears on p. 
3720.) 

Mr. Appell. Was the check drawn payable to Mr. Griffin to help 
defray expenses incurred by him in connection with the indictment 
growing out of the Godfrey bombing ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I have another check dated November 13, 1964. This 
one is payable to Gene Spegal, another of the codefendants in that 
indictment, also later found not guilty. This is also in the amount 
of $25 drawn against the same accoimt and containing the same 
signatures. 

Could you tell me the purpose for which this $25 was drawn ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Check marked ''John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 3" appears on p. 
3720.) 

Mr. Appell. I hand you copies of two checks, one dated July 30, 
1965, payable to cash in the amount of $50, and the other dated 
August 2, 1965 — originally it was July and it was stricken and August 
was inserted — in the amount of $940, both checks drawn against 
the Fellowship Club and both containing the signatures of Stouden- 
mire and Johns. 

In looking at these, Mr. Stoudenmire, I would like to ask you the 
purpose for which they were drawn. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Checks marked "John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 4" appear on p. 
3721.) 

Mr. Appell. Were these checks drawn in order to defray expenses 
of the trials of Bart Griffin, et al. ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, I put it to you as a fact that this 
account is an account of the Jacksonville Klavern No. 502. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, I put it to you as a fact that Alton 
O. Cooksey was the exalted cyclops of your Klavern, that he was the 
Grand Klaliff of the United Florida Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and 
up until the last election was the Acting Grand Dragon due to the 
illness of Jason Kersey, the Grand Dragon. 



3720 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 2 



r>k» 










w^k^<,i^^,.^^^^^^^a.MJU. ^ ''.^^::"Tr« 



n^cjoifi 



vif»JMN|^ ^^ 



uji»iiijiA|i^AKi»ciiawif» 



' <? 



WuvftkA M»«tf>rf 




!^':#fi-i^l^ 



<ii. m*MW •*••» ••■ ' w *!■ •* 



John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 3 







''^W/A-' ^^^^ '^'Sm.x.Aii** > 






/y 



-f^^i nji*«Mt»A XArtov* A «iMH r ttr 




^L 



Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, the committee requested of the In- 
ternal Revenue Service copies of corporate tax returns filed by the 
Duval Fellowship Club, the Paul Revere Historical Society, and in 
connection with this Internal Revenue agents interviewed Mr. Alton 
O. Cooksey of 8851 Adams Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida. 

The report reads, with respect to the Duval Fellowship Club : 

Contact was made with Mr. Alton Cooksey at Ms residence on July 28, 1965 
for the purpose of determining his aflBliation with the above named organization 
and determining whether liability had been incurred for Federal taxes. He stated 
that he was the president of the club, but declined to furnish any names of 
the oflScers or the membership of the organization. He stated this organiza- 
tion had existed for a period of six or seven years and that dues were collected 
from each member on a quarterly basis. He voluntarily agreed that liability 
had been incurred and that he would file the x-equired tax returns with Internal 
Revenue Service on or before August 2, 1965. The returns have not been received 
and follow-up has been initiated to secure these returns. We find that Mr. 
Cooksey filed returns in his individual name for the years 1960 through 
1964. * * * 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3721 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 4 









TOTA4. CA^*< 



1 aw*!* • 



• • */, * . . \,, -*-/ 

.IA« KHONMI I I . Il (>M!I>,\ ^ -t 



K^, - lAruHoNviiiilioi 



koyiiw i*AiJ^^K*CV<i/(4«»it^bi/i. 






On August 23, there was a conference with Mr. Cooksey and his 
attorney at the Internal Revenue Service, and the report reads : 

After considerable discussion, it was determined that Mr. Cooksey was con- 
fused when he stated on July 29, 1965, that dues were collected. Actually, 
there is no organized club, and "Duval Fellowship Club", should be considered 
to be a pseudonym only, and there are no regular meeting nights, no dues or fees 
are collected. During political times, such as around the time elections are 
held, Mr. Cooksey calls a few friends on the telephone, and they go to some 
person's home, and hold informal discussions as to the merits of various political 
candidates. Only about fifteen to twenty persons appear at these gatherings, 
and the same persons are rarely at each meeting. 

There are no records, and. there is no list of names, or roster. There is no 
charter, no by-laws, and it is considered that no liability exists for filing Forms 
720 or 1120. 

Now, I ask you, Mr. Stoudenmire, whether or not this information 
given to the Internal Revenue Service by Mr. Cooksey is factual? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that this is a Klavem of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, are you familar with an organiza- 
tion known as the Duval Sportsmen Lodge ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that this Duval Sportsmen 
Lodge has since 1957 been the principal bank account now for the 



3722 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

United Florida Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and prior thereto for 
other Klan groups, such as the Florida Ku Klux Klan or when affiliated 
with the U.S. Klans, a faction of that organization. 

I ask you to affirm or deny that, sir. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, do you know Mr. Gene Fallaw? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Fallaw testified on Monday that he does not have 
the records of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan ; that he has not been 
affiliated with the United Florida Ku Klux Klan since sometime be- 
tween February and March of 1964 ; but that while he was an officer 
of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan that the records of that organi- 
zation were maintained by you. 

Was Mr. Fallaw's testimony truthful ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. What disposition did you make of the documents 
which Mr. Fallaw testified were in your possession at the time he 
was an officer of the United Florida Klan ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Stoudenmire, I show you a series of statements 
filed by the Duval Sportsmen Lodge covering authorized signatures 
to an account maintained in that name at the Florida Dealers and 
Growers Bank. 

The first authorizes the signatures of J. L. Stoudenmire as treas- 
urer and T, E. Brown as secretary, and that was effective September 
10, 1957; effective June 30, 1959, with W. J. Walker as president and 
J. L. Stoudenmire as treasurer; effective March 5, 1962, John P. 
Garcia as secretary and J. L. Stoudenmire as treasurer; effective 
September 26, 1963, and the current card at the time the committee 
subpenaed the books and records duces tecum, Richard E. Kersey, 
secretary, and J. Ia Stoudenmire, treasurer. 

I hand you these, Mr. Stoudenmire and I ask you if your signature 
is contained on each of these authorizations ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

(Documents marked "John Stoudenmire Exhibits Nos. 5-A through 
5-D," respectively, appear on pp. 3723-3726. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, the checks received by the commit- 
tee drawn against this account from 1960 to date contain, as one of 
the two signatures to the account, your signature. 

I ask you if these checks over a period of 6 years were written 
without any records being maintained by you as to the disbursement 
items for which Ithe checks were drawn. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

(Checks marked "John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 6" and retained in 
committee files.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 5-A 

Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization 
to Open Deposit Account 



3723 



To DEALERS & GROWERS STATE BANK 
JACKSONVILLE. PLORIDA 

At a regular meeting of the. l>uval Sportsmen Lodge _._ 

of ttie - _ memb erB __,.... ,.^_ 

heldonthe 6th day of SeEtenber |0 57 o« wh;ch n qi.O'um 

was present, the followmg officers ware duly elected f r the ensuing >efr and until their successors shall be 
elected and shall ^ave qualified; 



Name 

J. ••. Stoudenmir* 

T. F. "rown 



Title 
Treasurer 
Secretaiy 



Spe(;^ar; fiignature 



Under the ruiei; of *he Duval Sportsmen Lodge 

Any funds deposited to \\'. credit wItK a banit or trutf cmpany may be withdrawn by the. Treasurer aad__Secretary 



' -<.« b a'^k spac«l fo* til'«i • 

who . . . authorired tj eri: 

The rt jfhority here'i qi^S'^ 
in writing of the revocation cJ ii 

Atfix Seal Below 



r 



n 



ivment of m> 



■ vc b-^nli I' I- 'oncer* 
'10 rei.c^pt *lier0of 



^^/^^ 



y.fr-i'L'-'rl 



J 



Acc'.oJ 



3724 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 5-B 

Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Orgoiuzation 
to Open Deposit Account 



To- 



At a regular meeting of **'ff ■ — '^PZ^^int ^^^-^-^ 
of the ^/Ci^^^nLfy 






_^____day of itfif-nr/i^ 



held on the ---^^ day of Jki^^n 4 i^ . , IP ^7 . at which a quorum 

was present, the following ofFicers were duly elected for the ensuing year and until their successors shall be 
elected and shall have qualified: 

Name •" Title / %><Tiliiiiiii Jijfiiiliiiii y' 



iT' L ^Tc^ ^^^ /T At/dA' 



^Jl_^^^^^:^ij^kte4*i^£(^ 



Under the rules of f-n ^Jfj ^^^ r^t^/^^i^-mt/m/ CTy* *^ i ' ^ /} — 

Any funds djtoosited to its credit with a bank or trust company may be withdrawn by *''i' j^4 t^<t t/^l^m' 

(U^e bl^nk ipac«s for titias of signing cfftc«ri and sfe^a whethar chvcks w<tl b*«r on* Hgnatur* or wilt btt lignad and countarsiqnad). 
who ^\t r' authoriied to endorse and sign Checks, Drafts and Orders for the payment of money. 

The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the Above bank is concerned until it be notified 
in writing of the revocation of such authority and shall in writing «cknowted9e receipt thereof 
AfFl< Seal Below 

r n 

. Approved: 




y/Uu^.?\JiL- 



. ^J^fyt^-rrr^r-yr./ 



T J be signed by the 
I retiring officers 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3725 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 5-C 

Authority of Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization 
to Open Deposit Account 



To- 






At a regular masting of ttie. .^. 






of the 

held on the O — 



jday of_ 



y/^c^ itc-/^ 



19^'^. at which a quorum 



was present, the following officers were duly elected for the ensuing year and until their successors shall be 
elected and shall have qualified: TWO SIGNATURES REQUIRED 




Under the rules of the. 



'^ «-><7/^-^*-^"^^**-^-^'^ '-^^-^-''^V^ 



Any ^seas deposited to its crodit with a bank or trust company may be withdrawn by the f^'-^ i ^i nM'ttt^' ■ 



^ 



H^^lfl^ 



im S lfiH ATU R f S R gQo i weo 



(Use blank spac«i for t>t1«f of S'griing cff'c«'i a' :J state x'tietKer ctieclit will beer one signature or will be siq'-ed anS countersigned) 
whn ^y^L^ — * authnriied to endorse and sign Checks, Drafts and Orders for the payment of money. 

The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the above bank !i concerned until it be notified 
in writing of the revocation of such authority and shall in writing ackrjjjwledge recelptJh«»eof 
Affix Seal Below f \ I 



r 



Ap/nbyed: 



~l 



LiM- 




To be signed by the 
g officers 



I retirln. 



3726 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

John Stoudenmire Exhibit No. 5-D 

Authority ol Lodge, Association or Other Similar Organization 
to Open Deposit Account 



To 



At a regular meeting of Hi«_a^SK^ 



^atu/<^ 



[)«♦» Cw^/. 



of the ^\r<^f^/.,'r7i^^i^€0M*'n.i <?>^rj^ 

held on the / ~ 



. day of_ 



19.^^. at which a quorum 



was pre-,eni. the following officen were duty elected for thf ' entuinq year and until their tuccessort jhall b« 
elected and shall have qualified: 

Name ^^ SIGNALS REQUIRED Sp*:im.n Signatur. 




UnHer the rules of the. 
Any funds depolited to its credit with a banli or ^truit company may be wilftdrawn by the. 



^>^^r rn/Jt! ^ r^it4tA/ 



i£^«f 



TH-. 



■■^ ^'^i^n 



(Use blank ipacsi (or litlai of liqninq '^ffic«ri and llaU whe^hsr chackt will bur on* llgoatur* or will b« liqrwd arvd countamqriad) 

who^ ^^44— .«_-authoriied to endorse end sign Checks, Drafts and Orderj for the payment of money. 

The authority herein given is to remain irrevocable so far as the above bank is concerned until it be notified 
in writing of the revocation of such euthoriiy and shall in writing acknowledge receipt thereof 

Affii Seal Below 



4 _^/t<>^«tA- -^- 4i/>r^^. 




To be signed by thr 
retiring officers 



S*c/«tafy 



Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, the committee's investigation estab- 
lished that officers of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan were : 

Grand Dragon — ^Jason Edgar Kersey of Samsula, Florida. 

Grand Klaliff — Alton O. Cooksey of Jacksonville, Florida. 

Grand klokard — William Richard Joyce of Ormond Beach, Florida. 

The grand kludd was Rubin Talmadge Norton of Jacksonville, 
Florida. 

The grand kligrapp, or secretary — Richard Edgar Kersey. 

The grand klabee — John Lee Stoudenmire. 

The grand titan replacing Mr. Wood — Charles Lee Wilson of Jack- 
sonville, Florida. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3727 

The grand kladd — J. G. Hopkins of Plant City, Florida. 

The grand klarogo — Gary Hogue of Plant City, Florida. 

The grand klexter as George T. Luke of Orlando, Florida ; and the 
grand klokan — M. A. Luke of Orlando, Florida, and the grand night- 
hawk — Marshall Wise of Ocoee, Florida. 

Did you know these men to hold the offices which I have stated to 
you? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, an election was held in June of 
1965. Where there any changes made in the grand officers of the 
United Florida Klan other than I read to you ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viosuly stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoudenmire, I put it to you as a fact that you 
were born on September 19, 1908, at Flint, Georgia ; that you reside 
at 961 Ontario, Jacksonville, Florida; and that you were employed 
with the Duval Insulation and Weatherstripping Company, Jackson- 
ville, Florida. 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
of Mr. Stoudenmire. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. No questions. 

Mr. Weltner. What is the Duval Sportsmen Lodge, Mr. 
Stoudenmire ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I didn't understand your question. 

Mr. Weltner. What is the Duval Sportsmen Lodge ? 

Mr. Stoudenmire. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused, and the documents prof- 
fered to the witness during the course of his examination will be en- 
tered into the record at this time. 

You are excused, Mr. Stoudenmire. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Richard Kersey. 

Mr. Weltner. Stand and raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give during the 
course of this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Kersey. Yes, sir. 



3728 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Weltner. Be seated, please. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD EBGAR KERSEY, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, will you state your full name for the 
record ? 

Mr. Kersey. Richard Edgar Kersey. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Kersey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, 
Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, are you here today in accordance with a 
subpena served upon you in the Conrad Building, De Land, Florida, 
on January 26, 1966? 

Mr. Kersey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, the subpena served upon you contained 
an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the 
conditions of the subpena you were commanded to bring with you 
and to produce documents set forth in certain paragraphs of the 
subpena. 

Paragraph 1 reads: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or 
available to you as Grand Kligrapp (Secretary) of the United Florida Ku Klux 
Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Kersey, have you been furnished a copy of 
Chairman Willis' opening statement ? 

Mr. Kersey. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you familiar with the contents of that statement ? 

Mr. Kersey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee does not accept your reasons for fail- 
ing to produce these documents, and you are ordered and directed to 
produce them at this time. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse on all of the groimds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You have an opportunity, if you so desire, to present 
to the committee any reason to show that you are unable to comply 
with the terms of the subpena. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2, Mr. Kersey, calls upon you to produce : 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3729 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
at Grand Kligrapp (Secretary) of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan, which the 
"Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main- 
tained by you and any other oflScer of said organization, the same being in your 
possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You are ordered and directed to produce the docu- 
ments at this time. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse on all the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the Internal 
Revenue Service reports that no corporate records have been filed, 
we will not ask for the production of the items called for in para- 
graphs 3 and 4. 

When and where were you born, Mr. Kersey ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking 
all of my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, I put it to you as a fact that you are the 
son of Jason Kersev, Grand Dragon of the United Florida Ku Klux 
Klan. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should note at this 
point the committee authorized and there was served upon Jason 
Edgar Kersey as the Grand Dragon of the United Florida Klan a 
subpena calling for his appearance and the production of documents 
maintained by the Grand Dragon. 

The committee has received a medical statement which conclusively 
establishes that Mr. Kersey is physically incapable of giving testi- 
mony. 

Mr. Weltner. One minute, please. 

In view of that announcement by the investigator, the committee's 
action at this point is to discharge Mr. Jason Kersey from any and 
all further obligation or responsibility pursuant to the service of the 
subpena and to cancel the same, and that action is taken herewith. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, are you acquainted with the fact that on 
June 25, 1961, at a convention held in Orlando, Florida, the United 
Florida Klan was born ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. I did not understand the last few words of your 
question, 

Mr. Appell. Wliether or not on that date he was familiar with the 
fact that at a meeting in Orlando, Florida, the United Florida Ku 
Klux Klan as an organization was born. 

Mr. Kersey, I have a copy of resolutions adopted at that convention. 
I shall read them into the record and ask you for any comment after 
I am finished with them. [Reading :] 



3730 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

1. That the Florida Ku Klux Klan and the United Ku Klux Klan unite into 
one State Organization at once. Resolution adopted. 

2. The organization be called, "The United Florida Ku Klux Klan." Resolution 
adopted. 

3. Both Klans use the literature, books and regalia they now have until same 
is used up. The new literature be printed in the new name, "The United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan." Resolution adopted. 

This refers to Jason E. Kersey — 

4. That Kersey remain as Grand Dragon for one year. Resolution adopted. 

5. That The United Klan of Florida have no State Charter. Resolution 
adopted. 

6. That the State Officers of both Organizations be declared vacant and that 
new officers be elected today. Resolution adopted. 

7. That the body nominate and elect State Officers. Resolution adopted. 

8. That all life memberships be revoked and that new life membership be 
presented to worthy members of 63 years of age or older, or to disable [sic] mem- 
bers. Resolution adopted. 

9. That we have no motorcades, street walkings, parades, cross burnings or 
rallies for security reasons. Resolution adopted. 

10. That we do away with all membership cards. Resolution rejected. 

Mr. Weltner. Rejected? 

Mr. Appell. Rejected. [Continues reading :] 

11. That the State per capta [sic] tax be $1.00 per quarter and that the initia- 
tion fee be $10.00 of which $5.00 goes to the state and $5.00 goes to the local unit. 
Resolution adopted. 

12. That the local dues be .set by the local unites [sic]. Resolution adopted. 

13. That worthy members be promoted to the Degree of K-Duo. Resolution 
adopted, and a committee chairman was appointed by the Grand Dragon to head 
up a committee to work on the higher Degree of Klan Kraft. 

14. That the State Secretary of the Florida Ku Klux Klan be a resident of the 
same or adjoining the County as the presiding Grand Dragon. Resolution rejected. 

Mr. Kersey, I hand you this and ask you if this was the action taken 
by that convention on June 25, 1961 ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Richard Kersey Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3731 

Richard Kersey Exhibit No. 1 

THS UNITED FLo.(ID« KU UXL. Uu.N 
8?SCI-I BUXLZTIK oF R^SOLLTIuir^ i'AEiZHTZi' T*.. AITHU— CuiyVJillOI 
ORI-rDO, FLCali;*, JUITZ 80, 1961. 

1. That the Florida Kii i.lux }JLrn and tho United Ku lO-xut BLfin 
unite into one ot-it- Or^ani;,."tion at one. Resolution adootcd. 

2. The or{:.ini::.atlon -b-- c.^llrd, "2hc Ifcitcd Florida hii liux Klan." 
Resolution ado.vt'-d. 

3. 3oth Klsr.s ute ■tnc liter, tiirc, 'cooks .ind re^iilie they now hevo 
until zRu.r io u&ed up. Inc nc\- literature be .printed in thr 

no* name, "Ihc united ilorid'u hu tSbxz: .JLrjn," if solution ftdoptcA, 

4. That iicrEcy rciuain ac Grr."jr.u Lt< jon lor or.'- year, .-te solution 
cdo.itod. 

)'B, aiat 'Tl^c Uuiied laan ol Florid.^ hav. no ot^te ci'-'Ctcr. 
I .^eoolution i(\o:tri. 

I' 

l^» That the 5t.= tc Officers of both orsani-ations b" declared vacent 

? and that ncv< oflicors be elected tod.jy. resolution adopted. 

;7. That the body nouiinate .:nc elect at.vt: Officers, .\ocolution 
; 8do:^tcd. 

B, That all lif: m-mbe^ u-ii.:.G be revoked and tn^-t nev life meabcrship 
bo presented to wortny m'l.ibcro of be yer.rc of j;;;e or older, or 
to dteable meuihris. .c.-:,oultion .idoiteU. 

9. That wc havr iio »iotorc;dc&, street walLinss, jsr.ic.ec, cros& 
buruta^s or rsllieslor s-ciu-ity r'-.'-oone. .iesolution adOjitcd. 

10. ?b«t wc do awKy v.ith r.ll r..einber shiT c-.rds. iiesolution rojcotc4« 

11. That ttc itate jer c.3pta tRx be ^1.00 per quarter and that the 
Initiation fer be ,10.00 of '.^liich j>6.00 .^o'-'s to th*" atate end 
vS'OO GTE to til'- loc?.l luiit. .iesolution •-'dotted. 

•lii. That the local ■'Mies c'- set by the local unites. . resolution 
.'dopted. 

1S« Tliat vorthy faemc.:rs be pronioted to tl!'- J^-^i-cc of K-D\io. 

iiecolution 4<do.;trd, a.-A h coi.iL.ittT cii.^ii*u.3n i .".s aj.'ointed by 
the Gr.'nd Dragon to hn^d up k, coriuitt-e to v/orl: ontiie 
higher i^c^ree of -J^r. .j:.-:ft. 

14. That the otJte a'crct-ry of the Fici ida ..u .J.\u: iJ..en tr « 

resident of t;-.<- z:i,\' cv 'Cjoiniiv tn- Cca.ntv ?-£ the i}reol4~ 
ii. Crund */r. ' Oi . .<' „ lu:,i;>n .'■j-ci-d. 



3732 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to 
affirm or deny the fact, that you have been a member of the Klan since 
1958, when you were 20 years of age, and that in September 1959, you 
were elected to kligrapp of the De Land Klavern and that in June of 
1962, you were elected the grand kligrapp or secretary of the United 
Klan or of the Florida Ku Klux Klan and that you have held the 
position of grand kligrapp since that time. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, are you Acting Grand Dragon in view of 
the illness of your father at the present time ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Under the combined organization, Mr. Appell, pur- 
suant to the action of June 25, 1961, the highest officer in the United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan is the Grand Dragon; is that correct? 

Mr. Appell. That is correct. 

Mr. Weltner. Consequently, the designation grand before any title 
would mean that that is the chief officer holding those responsibilities 
within the entire organization of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Appell. That is true. 

Mr. Weltner. Then this witness being the grand kligrapp would 
be the chief secretary of the entire organization of the United Florida 
Ku Klux Klan ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Appell. That is also correct, sir. 

Mr. Kersey, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that the exalted cyclops of the De Land Klavern known as De 
Land Klavern 8-1 and also known as the 8-1 Sportsman's Club is 
Edward Arnold Kersey ; that the klaliff is Frank T. Holder, Jr. ; that 
the current secretary is Bill Joyce, who also is the grand klokard ; that 
the klabee is Joe Tomazin, Jr.; and that the klokard is Porter E. 
Rossner. 

I ask you to affirm or deny that fact, sir. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all the ground previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the 8-1 Sportsman's Club maintains a 
bank account at the Florida Bank at De Land, De Land, Florida. 

In the bank the address of the 8-1 Sportsman's Club is recorded as 
Route 1, New Smyrna Beach, Florida. 

I ask that the authorized signature cards of this Klan account going 
back to February 24, 1957, through the current signature card dated 
1-23-64 be made a part of the record at this point. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3733 

Mr. Weltner. Does the name of this witness appear on any of 
the cards? 

Mr. Appell. No, sir ; it does not, but this is the Klavern to which 
this witness holds formal membership. 

Mr. Weltner. These photostatic copies received from the Florida 
Bank? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir ; in accordance with the subpena duces tecum. 

Mr. Weltner. They will be entered into the record at this point. 

(Documents marked "Richard Kersey Exhibit No. 2 and retained 
in committee files.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to 
affirm or deny the fact, that the meetings of this Klavern are held 
on a farm owned by your father. 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is there still active in Lake City, Florida, the Lake 
City Klavern of the United Florida Klan under Exalted Cyclops 
Thomas Edison Booth? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is there still active at Nassau County Klavern No. 501 
at Yulee, Florida, under the Exalted Cyclops James Lewis ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Atpell. Is there still active at Oak Hill, Oak Hill Rod and 
Gun Club, Oak Hill, Florida, under Exalted Cyclops Ray Wend'all 
Goodrich ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is there still active in Jacksonville, the Robert E. Lee 
Klavern 506 under Kenneth Marvin Overstreet? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is there still active in Jacksonville the Robert E. Lee 
Klavern 508 under Exalted Cyclops Saint Elmo Mattox ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is there still active in Jacksonville the Robert E. Lee 
Klavern 513 under Willie Eugene Wilson? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. With respect to Robert E. Lee Klavern 513, did you 
know Frank Thomas Rigdon to be a member of that Klavern? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell, I put it to you as a fact that in July of 1964 he was a 
member and he was arrested for burning a cross on the residence of 
the former superintendent of schools in Jacksonville, Florida, for 
which he was tried and fined. 

Mr. Weltner. Tried and convicted? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

I put that to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny the fact. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 17 



3734 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr, Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In Jacksonville, Florida, do you know the exalted 
Cyclops of Robert E. Lee Klavem 514 to be Robert Vincent Hanirick ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In Jacksonville, Florida, Robert E. Lee Klavem 518, 
do you know the exalted cyclops to be John Edwin Crissman ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In St. Augustine, Florida, Klavem No. 519, do you 
know the exalted cyclops to be Buddie Sam Cooper? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In Jacksonville, Florida, Robert E. Lee Klavern 520, 
the Exalted Cyclops Wayne J. Norris. Do you know him to be the 
exalted cyclops of that Klavern ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In Sebring, Florida, do the United Florida Klans have 
a Klavem there know as Imperial Klavem 27-1 with the Exalted 
Cyclops Charles Fritz ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Does the United Florida Klan have a Klavern in 
Apopka, Florida, known as the West Orange Sportsman's Lodge with 
the Exalted Cyclops Lonnie Edward Strickland ? 

Mr. Kersey, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Does the United Florida Klan have a Klavem at Au- 
burndale, Florida, with the Exalted Cyclops A. C, Smith ? 

Mr, Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell, At Dade City, Florida, does the United Florida Klan 
have a Klavem under the Exalted Cyclops Louis Hodges? 

Mr, Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At Haines City, Florida, does the United Florida 
Klan have a Klavern under the Exalted Cyclops Marlim Gashaw? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At Lake Wales, Florida, does the United Florida 
Klan have a Klavern under the exalted cyclops of — known by the 
name of Carl Capps? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At Lakeland, Florida, does the United Florida Klan 
have a Klavern mider the Exalted Cyclops C, L. Sheffield? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At Melbourne, Florida, does the United Florida Klan 
have a Klavern under Exalted Cyclops Benjamin Rotgers? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3735 

Mr. Appell. At Orlando, Florida, does the United Florida Klan 
have a Klavem under Exalted Cyclops George Thomas Luke ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Also at Orlando, does the United Florida Klan have 
a Klavern known as the Sherwood Club, 7-2 Club, under the Exalted 
Cyclops Marshall L. Wise? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At Plant City, Florida, does the United Florida Klan 
have a Klavern known as the East Hillsborough County Sportsman's 
Club under the Exalted Cyclops Gary Hogue? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Under the constitution and laws of the United Florida 
Klan, as the grand kligrapp, are each of these organizations required 
to furnish you with a report of the number of members and to transmit 
to the State offices through you a financial report based on mem- 
bership ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Kersey, following the arrest of William Rose- 
crans, was a meeting held at your father's farm for the i)urpose of 
securing attorneys for Rosecrans and later for the others indicted? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge as to the guilt or innocence 
of the ones indicted, growing out of the Godfrey bombing ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated, 

Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge of violence carried out by 
members of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Kersey. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Chairman, the staff has no further questions to 
ask of this witness. 

Mr. Weltner, Mr, Buchanan ? 

Mr, Buchanan, No questions, 

Mr, Weltner. Mr. Kersey, you have an opportunity at this point, 
if you so desire, to offer any matter which the committee might deem 
relevant to this inquiry. 

You are afforded that opportunity at this time. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Kersey. No, thanks. 

Mr, Weltner, The witness will be excused. 

The committee will take a 5-minute recess, and the Chair will an- 
nounce that we probably will proceed for approximately 1 hour more 
unless the committee is interrupted by quorum bells. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee members 
present at time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representatives 
Weltner and Buchanan,) 

Mr, Weltner, The subcommittee will resume. 

Mr. Appell, Mr, Chairman, before calling the next witness, I would 
like to ask that the bank records relating to Klaverns of the United 



3736 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



Florida Klans, together with information obtained by the committee 
during its investigation which establishes its officers, locations, and 
other pertinent information with respect to Klaverns, be made a part 
of the record. 

Mr. Weltner. Is that request joined with your statement that this 
information is the result of the committee's investigation and that it 
is accurate and correct ? 

Mr. Appell. It is accurate and correct, sir, as of the time the in- 
vestigation was made. It will not be accurate if there have been sub- 
sequent elections which change the officers, but as of May of 1965 the 
information is accurate. 

Mr. Weltner. Without objection, the information will be inserted 
at this point in the record along with the documents as requested. 

(Bank records marked "Richard Kersey Exhibit No. 3" and re- 
tained in committee files. A list of the various Klaverns and officers 
of such Klaverns of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan follows:) 

United Florida Ku Klux Klan 
klaverns ^ officers 

West Orange Sportsman's Lodge Lonnie Edward Strickland, exalted 
#7-3 Cyclops 

(Apopka, Fla.)- Richard C. Lebre, klaliff 

Norman Eishone, klokan 
Robert Monroe Craig, kludd 
Rudolph J. Kramer, kligrapp 
William Herbert Lldswick, klabee 
Robert Lacey Eishone, kladd 
Howard Taft Carpenter, klarogo 
Kenneth Joseph Carriveau, klexter 
Ola Paris McCafferty, night-hawk 
Donald Lee Eishone, klokan chief 

Auburndale Klavem, also known A. C. Smith, exalted cyclops 
as Auburndale Fisherman's Deimer Shook, klaliff 
Olub Roy Meadows, kligrapp 

(Auburndale, Fla.) James Sutton, klarogo and klexter 

Gerald Exum, klokan 
Albert Hall, klabee 

Dade City Klavern,* also known as Louis Hodges, exalted cyclops 
Confederate Club #38 Marvin Merritt, kligrapp 

(Dade City, Fla.) P. C. Buttram, kludd 

Patriot Klavem* 
(Gainesville, Fla.) 



Haines City Klavern, also known 
as Central Sportsman's Club 
#101 
(Haines City, Fla.) 



Jacksonville Klavem #502, also 
known as Paul Revere Histori- 
cal Society, Duval Fellowship 
Club and Fellowship Club 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 

Robert E. Lee Klavern #506 
( Jacksonville, Fla. ) 
See footnotes at end of table. 



Marlim Gashaw, exalted cyclops 

David Gribbs, klaliff 

Paul Hamford, klokard 

J. L. Bunn, kludd 

John T. Willis, kligrapp 

James Little, kladd 

Sam Bunch, klarogo and klokan chief 

Dick Easley, klexter 

Virgil Gashaw, night-hawk 

Alton O. Cooksey, exalted cyclops 
John Mercer Johns, kligrapp 
John Lee Stoudenmire, klabee 



Kenneth Marvin Overstreet, exalted 
cyclops 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3737 



United iFlorida Ku Klux Klan — Continued 



KLAVERNS 



Robert E. Lee Klavern #508 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 

Robert E. Lee Klaveni #513 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 



Robert E. Lee Klavern #514* 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 

Robert E. Lee Klavern #518* 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 

Robert E. Lee Klavern #520 
(Jacksonville, Fla.) 



Lake Butler Klavern* 
(Lake Butler, Ma.) 

Lake City Klavern 
(Lake City, Fla.) 

Lake Wales Klavern, also known 
as Pioneer Club 5-4 
(West Lake Wales, Fla.) 



Lakeland Klavern, also known as 
Forrest Club #11 and United 
Gun Club 
(Lakeland, Fla.) 



Melbourne Klavern, also known as 
West Melbourne Sportsman's 
Club 
(Melbourne, Fla.) 



Mount Dora Klavern* 
(Mount Dora, Fla.) 

Oak Hill Rod and Gun Club " 
(Oak Hill, Fla.) 

Marion Klavern* 
(Oeala, Fla.) 

See footnotes at end of table. 



Saint Elmo Mattox, exalted cyclops 

Willie Eugene Wilson, exalted cyclops 

Cecil Steward, klaliff 

Donald Eugene Spegal, klokard and 

kligrapp 
Donald Harold Butler, klabee 
Jack Reed, kludd 
Herman J. Morris, klai-ogo 

Robert Vincent Hamrick, exalted cy- 
clops 

John Edwin Orissman, exalted cyclops 

Wayne J. Norris, exalted cyclops 

Bill Williams, klaliff 

James F. Pope, klokan 

James Leopard, kludd 

Mrs. Wayne Norris, kligrapp 

Mrs. James Leopard, klabee 



Thomas Edison Booth, exalted cyclops 

Caii Capps, exalted cyclops 
•John Rogers, klaliff 
Bill Bovsonan, kligrapp 
Miles Headen, klabee 
Gene McLean, klokan 
A. R. Woods, kladd 

Harvey Balkim (or Balkom), acting 
night-hawk 

O. L. SheflSeld, exalted cyclops 

Donald Johnson, klaUff 

William Townsend, klokard 

N. F. Byrd, kludd 

Curtis Boykin, kladd 

A. A. Heady, klarogo 

James Ready, klexter 

Mack Spivey, klokan 

H. W. Grimes, night-hawk 

Benjamin Rotgers, exalted cyclops and 

klabee 
Willard William Yates, Jr., klaliff 
Brent "Pappy" Strand, kludd 
John Johnson, kligrapp 
George DeMont Millon, kladd 
Richard Dixon, klarogo 
Ray Green, klexter 
John Green, klokan 
Bill Murphy, night-hawk 



Ray Wendall Goodrich, exalted cyclops 



3738 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



Unmed vFlobida Ku Klux Klan — Continued 



KLAVEKNS ^ 

Orlando Klavem, also known as 
7-lOIub' 
(Orlando, Fla.) 



Orlando Klavern, also known as 
7-2 Club and Sherwood Olub" 
( Orlando, Fla.) 



Putnam Klavern* 
(Palatka, Fla.) 

Pedro Klavem #15-1,* also known 
as Marlon — Sumter Sports- 
men's Olub 
(Pedro, Fla.) 

Plant City Klavem, also known as 
East Hillsborough County 
Sportsman's Club 
(Plant City, Fla.) 



St. Augustine Klavem #519 
(St. Augustine, Fla.) 

De Land Klavern, also known as 
8-1 Sportsman's Club 
(Samsula, Fla.) 



Imperial Klavern #27-1, 
known as Imperial Club 
(Sebring, Fla.) 



also 



Nassau County Klavem #501 
(Yulee, Fla.) 



George Thomas Luke, exalted cyclops 
Leroy Lake, kligrapp and klabee 
Robert Monroe Craig, klarogo 
Billy Carl Edwards, klexter 
Milton A. Luke, klokan 

Marshall Lee Wise, exalted cyclops 
(succeeded during 1965 by Lonnie 
Edward Strickland) 
Chilton StiU, klalifE 
Benjamin Franklin Gibson, klokard 
Robert Monroe Craig, kludd 
Winfred Lewis Whitehead, kligrapp 
William Herbert Barwick, klabee 
Thomas Jefferson Fuller, kladd 
Hubert Strickland, klexter 
Ola Paris McCafferty, night-hawk 



Gary Hogue, exalted cyclops 
Jack Lunsf ord, klaliff 
Jack Baker, klokard 
Butler Polk, kludd 
Wayne Hickey, kligrapp 
J. G. Hawkins, klabee 
Eugene AUen, kladd 
J. D. Wood, klarogo 
Dan Wood, klexter 
C. W. Manedin, klokan 
Carl Sheffield, night-hawk 
William Foster, kleagle 

Buddie Sam Cooper, exalted cyclops 
Jerome F. "Rusty" Godwin, klaliff 

Edward Arnold Kersey, exalted cyclops 
Frank T. Holder, Jr.. klaUff 
William Richard Joyce, kligrapp 
Joe Tomazin, Jr., klabee 
Porter E. Rossner, klokard 

Charles lYitz, exalted cyclops 
Ivey Waldron, Jr., klaliff 
Donald Hamlin, klokard 
I. W. Grissom, kludd 
Jack Prescott, kligrapp 

James Lewis, exalted cyclops 



1 This is a list of Klaverns of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan which committee investi- 
gations revealed were operating in 1964 and/or 1965. A single asterisk (*) following 
the name of the Klavern indicates that the Klavern became inactive at some point within 
this period. 

2 The UFKKK in the Orlando-Apopka area was represented by three Klaverns. When 
Klavern membership fell below minimum requirements, some officers occupied official posts 
in more than one Klavern. 

3 It is the committee's information that the membership of this Klavern has been ab- 
sorbed into the De Land Klavern at Samsula, Fla., and that Oak Hill Rod and Gun Club 
no longer exists as a separate organization. 

Mr. Weltner. Proceed with your next witness, Mr. Appell. 
Mr. Appell. Joseph Thomas Huett. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3739 

Mr. Weltner. Stand and. raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. HuETT. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH THOMAS HUETT, SR. 

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, please? 

Mr. HuETT. Joseph Thomas Huett, Sr. 

Mr. Weltner. I notice that you are not represented. 

Do you understand your right to have counsel represent you in 
these hearings? 

Mr. Weltner. The committee advises you that you have a right 
to have counsel represent you if you so desire. I wanted to be sure 
you imderstood your right. 

Mr. Huett. If somewhere along the line if I decide I need one, can 
I shut it off? 

Mr, Weltner. If at any time you feel you desire counsel, let the 
committee know and we will suspend in order to let you obtain counsel. 

Do you understand your rights under the Constitution, particularly 
the fifth amendment of the Constitution, to refuse to answer questions ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Is it your desire to proceed at this time without 
counsel ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Go ahead, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Huett, did you receive a copy of the chairman's 
opening statement of October 1965 and have you read it and are you 
familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Huett, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you on February 15, 1966, at 337 
Simpson Street, Moimt Dora, Florida ? 

Mr. Huett. I was served but not at 337 Simpson. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Huett, the subpena served upon you called for you 
to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Florida Ku 
Klux Klan and aflSliated organizations; namely, Mount Dora Klavem also 
known as the Mount Dora Dunkers Club, in your possession, custody or control, 
or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, 
Mount Dora Klavem of the United Florida Ku Klax Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, 1 ask you to 
produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Huett. All I have is a statement of the bank of the Dunkers 
Club. 

Mr. Weltner. What is the name of that club ? 

Mr. Huett. Dunkers Club. 

Mr. Weltner. D-u-n-k-e-r-s? 

Mr. Huett. D-u-n-k-e-r-s. 

Mr. Weltner. Is it your testimony, Mr. Huett, that the only record 
that you have in your possession or which might be available to you 
which fits the description contained in the subpena is the statement 
you are now submitting to the committee ? 



3740 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HtJETT. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom, Mr. Huett ? 

Mr. Huett. Center Hill, Florida, 1919, December 24. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Huett, what was the Dunkers Club ? 

Mr. Huett. Just a night-out-a-week club, boys get together and 
have a little fun. 

Mr. Appell. Did it have any affiliation with any group known to 
you to be a Klan organization ? 

Mr. Huett. I don't know if it did or not. 

Mr. Appell. Were you ever its president ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Were you ever its 

Mr. Huett. But I didn't do very much when I was president. 

Mr. Appell. Did it pay dues to any organization ? 

Mr. Huett. Not that I remember. 

Mr. Appell. Were you at any time affiliated with the Ku Klux 
Klan organization ? 

Mr. Huett. I was with the Dunkers Club and have stated in here 
that it was affiliated with it. 

Mr. Appell. But you were an officer of it, sir. Don't you know 
whether it was affiliated ? 

Mr. Huett. I was in charge of it. 

Mr. Appell. You never knew it to be ? 

Mr. Huett. I kind of suspected that some of the fellows might 
have been, but I couldn't say. 

Mr. Appell. What did one do to become a member of the Dunkers 
Club? 

Mr. Huett. He was invited out by someone else. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Huett, I find it difficult to hear you. Would 
you speak up a little more and speak more directly into the micro- 
phone ? 

Mr. Huett. My voice don't carry very well. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know it also to carry a designation of 12-3 ? 

Mr. Huett. 12-3? 

Mr. Appell, Yes. 

Mr. Huett. I don't remember. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever sign an application for membership in 
a Ku Klux Klan organization ? 

Mr. Huett. I don't believe I did. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever take an oath subscribed to by members of 
a Klan organization which carried a form similar to that which I am 
handing you ? 

Mr. Weltner, State what the document is, Mr. Appell, 

Mr. Appell. It is a series of oaths administered to members of Klan 
organizationsi (See obert Shelton Exhibit No. 4, Committee report, 
The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 343-346.) 

Mr. Weltner. Which Klan organization ? 

Mr. Appell. This particular one was obtained by the committee 

Mr. Huett. I have taken several oaths and some similar to that. I 
wouldn't say that was one. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien you took an oath which was similar to this, what 
was your purpose of taking it ? 

Mr. Weltner. Let's suspend a moment here. Have you ever taken 
a Klan oath ? Have you ever joined the Ku Klux Klan ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3741 

Mr. HuETT. No, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Have you ever joined any Kii Klux Klan organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. HxjETT. I might have, if this is one, yes. 

Mr, Weltner. Is it you testimony that you do not know whether 
or not the Dunkers Ckib was a Klan organization ? 

Mr. HuETT. I don't know. 

Mr. Weltner. Did you ever take an oath that contained within the 
body of the oath the name Ku Kkix Klan or Klan ? 

Mr. HuETT. I don't remember. 

Mr. Appell, Mr. Huett, what is your educational background ? 

Mr. HuETT. I finished the 8th grade. 

Mr. Appell. When, sir? 

Mr. HuETT. That, I don't know. I guess it was 1933 or 1934. 

Mr, Appell. What has been your employment since 1960 ? 

Mr. HuETT. Police work. 

Mr. Appell. What is your current employment ? 

Mr. Huett. Police work. 

Mr. Appell. In the way of police work, what type of police work? 

Mr. Huett. City police. 

Mr. Appell. Do you hold an office wnthin the Mount Dora City 
Police Department ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. What office do you hold ? 

Mr. Huett. Chief of police. 

Mr. Appell. Would you tell the committee where you took oaths 
which you say are similar in part to this, but not verbatim to this? 

Mr. Huett. I took one in — I don't remember what date — Junior 
American Auto Mechanics. When I was sworn into office I took an 
oath that had part of that in it. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien you were sworn into office, did you have an oath 
that "I most solemnly swear that I will forever keep sacredly secret, 
the signs, words and grip" 

Mr. Huett. No, it didn't have anything like that in it. 

Mr. Appell. Wliich of these specific oaths did you take and w^hich 
one did you not take ? 

Mr. Huett. I would have to read it and see. 

Mr. Weltner. Give the witness the document once again and ask 
him to look at it. 

Mr. Huett, each of these papers is an oath of the form usually used 
by Klan organizations known to be the United Klans of America and 
it conforms pretty much to all other Klan organizations. 

It is not your statement that the Junior Order of Mechanics is in 
any wav connected with the Ku Klux Klan ; is it ? 

Mr. Huett. No, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. What we are trying to determine here is to the best 
of your recollection whether or not you ever took a Klan oath and 
whether or not you ever joined any Klan organization. 

Mr, Huett, This part over here on page three, I guess it is, where it 
says: 

I most solemnly assert and affirm that to the government of the United States 
of America and any State thereof, of which I may become a resident, I sacredly 
swear an unqualified allegiance above any other and every kind of government 
in the whole world * * * 



3742 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

The one I took don't read just like that. "This Constitution and 
law is to protect, defend unto death." 

I think you know the oath I took. 

Mr. Weltner. We do not know the oath you took. We just want 
you to tell us whether or not you ever took the Klan oath. 

Mr. Buchanan. Did you take any kind of oath when you joined the 
Dunkers Club? 

Mr. HuETT. No. 

Mr. Appell. In connection with your membership, Mr. Huett, in 
the Dunkers Club, did you ever attend any meetings outside the State 
of Florida such as Arkansas, Georgia, Texas ? 

Mr. Huett. I have been all over ; yes. 

Mr. Appell. I assume that you have been all over, but I am asking 
you whether or not in connection with your membership in the Dunkers 
Club whether you attended any meetings in Arkansas, Georgia, and 
Texas? 

Mr. HuETT. I don't believe there is a Dunkers Club in either one 
of these places. 

Mr. Appell. I didn't ask you that, sir. I asked you whether or not 
you attended any meetings in those places in connection with your 
membership in the Dunkers Club ? 

Mr. Huett. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Huett, have you ever attended any meeting in 
the States of Georgia that was attended by persons known to you to 
be members of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Huett. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weltner. Have you ever attended a meeting in the State of 
Arkansas which was also attended by persons known to you to be 
members of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Huett. I couldn't rightfully say. 

Mr. Weltner. Have you ever attended any Klan meeting ? 

Mr. Appell. I didn't hear the answer. Was there an answer ? 

Mr. Weltner. The question was whether or not you ever attended 
any Klaji meetings ? 

Mr. Huett. I attended some public speakings ; yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Specifically, did you attend the State klonvokation 
of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan in 1964 ? 

Mr. Huett. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Huett, how large is the town of Mount Dora? 

Mr. Huett. About 4,000 people. 

Mr. Weltner. And you are the chief of police of that town ? 

Mr. Huett. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. How many members of the police force are there? 

Mr. Huett. Seven, besides myself. 

Mr. Weltner. How long have you been chief of police ? 

Mr. Huett. Since 1960. 

Mr. Weltner. How long have you been in police work ? 

Mr. Huett. Since 1957. 

Mr. Weltner. That is 8 or 9 years. 

Mr. Huett. Right. 

Mr. Weltner. In police work, isn't it very important that an offi- 
cer of the law be able to observe actions, be able to recall details, and 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3743 

be able to reconstruct things that happened within his presence? Is 
that an important part of police work ? 

Mr. HuETT. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Is that not part of the training that you give to your 
men? 

Mr. HuETT. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Is it not also very important that an officer of the 
law have a memory that can recall details and identities and times 
and places and circumstances and incidents ? 

Mr. HuETT. Yes. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you telling us that you do not recall whether 
or not you have ever been to any Klan meeting ? 

Mr. HuETT. I would rather not answer. Let's get an attorney. 
I didn't know you were going to give me the third degree here. 

Mr. Weltner. Very well. You have that right. The committee 
will suspend the appearance of this witness in order to permit him to 
obtain counsel, and I will ask the director of the committee, Mr. 
McNamara, to confer with the witness with that in mind. 

Mr. Huett, at this point you are excused, continued under subpena 
and under an obligation and responsibility to return as expeditiously 
as possible after you have been able to obtain counsel. 

Mr. McNamara, would you confer with the witness at this point? 
The witness may now leave the witness stand. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Donald Joseph Ballentine. 

Mr. Weltner. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this 
hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Ballentine. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD JOSEPH BALLENTINE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record. 

Mr. Ballentine. Donald Joseph Ballentine. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Ballentine. Yes, sir; I am. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel identify himself for record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, 
Augusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, are you appearing here today in ac- 
cordance with a subpena served upon you at 3834 Notter Avenue, 
Jacksonville, Florida, on February 14, 1966 ? 

Mr. Ballentine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, the subpena served upon you con- 
tained an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and 
under the terms of the subpena you were commanded to bring with 
you and produce before the committee items described in the attach- 
ment, paragraph 1, reading: 

ah books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Militant Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by 



3744 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

you or available to you as Imperial Wizard of the Militant Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Ballen- 
tine, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend 
to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and the 14th 
amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Ballentine, have you been furnished a copy of 
the opening statement by Chairman Willis concerning these hearings ? 

Mr. Ballentine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you familiar with the contents thereof? 

Mr. Ballentine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Ballentine, the committee does not accept your 
refusal to comply with this request, and accordingly you are directed 
and ordered to produce the documents called for at this time. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse on all the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. If you desire it, you have the opportunity now to 
present to the committee any reason why you are unable to comply 
with the requirement of the subpena. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Continue, Mr Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, corresiwndence, and memoranda in yoiir posses- 
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as 
Imperial Wizard of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan which the "Con- 
stitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained 
by you and any other oflBcer of said organization, the same being in your posses- 
sion, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee directs and orders you to produce the 
documents at this point. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, when and where were you born? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do fo 
might tend to incriminate me. 

I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and privileges under the 
1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and the 14th amendments to the Con- 
stitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, the witnesses previously called today 
have all been associated with an organization known as the United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan, and that organization is an outgrowth of the 
combination of the Florida Ku Klux Klan and the United Ku Klux 
Klan pursuant to an agreement in a convention in 1961 ; is that correct? 

Mr. Appell. That is correct. 

Mr. Weltner. This witness is called not as a member of that or- 
ganization but as a member of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan; is that correct? 

Mr. Appell. That is correct. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3745 

Mr. Weltner. And the subpena directs him in a representative 
capacity as the Imperial Wizard of the Militant Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan to produce certain documents; is that correct? 

Mr. Appell. That is correct. 

I put it to you as a fact that you were born on October 12, 1918, in 
Detroit, Michigan, and you reside at 3834 Notter and you are a jour- 
neyman plumber. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you 
to affirm or deny the fact, that you held membership in Robert. E. 
Lee Klavern No. 508 of the United Florida Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, do you know Warren Henry Folks 
who operates a barbershop in Jacksonville, Florida ? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, on April 15, 1965, a meeting was held 
at Warren Henry Folks' barbershop at 7 North Hogan Street in Jack- 
sonville, Florida, at which Mr. Folks mentioned that David Jones 
was present there representing a new Klan organization calling it the 
Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and he advised those assembled 
that the Imperial Wizard of this new Klan organization was Donald 
J. Ballentine. 

Were the announcements made at this meeting on April 15, 1965, 
correct ? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, I put it to you as a fact that on July 21, 
1965, that members of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan 
burned a cross in front of the Seminole Hotel in Jacksonville, Florida. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put to you as a fact that on the night of Jime 20, 1965, 
that members of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan attempted 
to destroy by arson the residence of two Negroes residing in the 
Jacksonville area. However, the fires were extinguished with very 
little damage. 

I put it to you as a fact that the members of the Militant Knights 
did set fires to those homes. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, I put it to you as a fact that Gene 
Foreman of Jacksonville, Florida, is the Grand Dragon of the Mili- 
tant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Eobert J. Cornwall is the 
exalted cyclops of Unit No. 1 which is located in the Springfield sec- 
tion of Jacksonville. 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 



3746 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, the St. Petersburg, Florida, Times^ of 
October 24, 1965, contains a story by Bob Stiff, Times staff State editor. 
He refers to the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and to Gene 
N. Foreman, its Grand Dragon, and reports that Mr. Foreman dis- 
patched to Chairman Willis of this committee a telegram which reads 
in part: 

"Do yourself, the committee and the American taxpayers a favor — EXCLUDE 
me and my Klan from your HATE list, because I wouldn't tell you anything 
anyhow !" 

Did you discuss with Mr. Foreman the dispatching of that telegram 
to Congressman Willis ? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Donald Ballentine Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 



Donald Ballentine Exhibit No. 1 
[St. Petersburg, Fla., Times, Oct. 24, 1965] 



FLORIDA REPORT 



Ku Klux Klan Dragon 
Seeks 'Militanf Knights 

By BOB bTIFF j^^y ^^^ assigned for duty. Death alone will prevent me from 
Times State Editor defending a distressed White brother, sister or child when mo- 
Listing of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Jack- '^sfed. TrisnliaJ or physically attacked in my presence by one of 
sonviUe by the House Committee on Un-American Activities Satan's two-legged Black Beasts or one of his brothers, the di- 
has apparently disturbed Grand Dragon Gene N. Foreman abolical Jew whom I believe to be the heart - core -brains and 
more than somewhat '^'^'•^f supporter of the International race - mixing Communist 
,, . J. ,,..,,, , , TIC n T^j -n conspiracy, which I believe is designed for the ultimate pur- 
He immediately fired off a telegram to U.S. Rep^ Edwin E. J^^ destroying the pure White Caucasian Race of which Al- 
WiUis. committee chairman, saying: Do yourself the commit- ;;;■ ^^^ ^^^ blessed me to be a member." 
tee and the American taxpayers a favor — EXCLUDE me and 

my Klan from your HATE list, because 1 ^^^ IF THAT confusing bit of prose hasn't ruined the taste of 

wouldn't tell you anything anyhow!" Capitali- ^Rj^^k -'>°"'" morning coffee, here are some of the 29 questions an ap- 

zation is his. ^B^^^^fc plicant must answer: 

Fnr p p ian says his group is picketing the mt W "Did you know that in America the Niggers have declared 

federal building in Jacksonville daily with VV''^B war on the Whites? 



signs demanding the FBI investigate Willis 1 iTy ..Are you aware of the fact that Klansmen are hated by 

and his committee. MtWF Niggers, Jews & FBI? 

Accompanying this information, Foreman l^fcaHt^ . ... . ,. « .»,.,...» 

sent me a membership application for his Mill- V^PH| "^° y°" "^'^ ^«*'' ^'^Sers & aU Communist? (sic) If not 

tant Knights. His card asks, "R-U- A WHITE ~ (AflH ~ I ""'• „ ,, . u „■ . . ,-u ,„ 

man? If so, prove it! Join today." ' '^IfWT^ "Do you own a gun? If So, what Kind and caliber? 

In order to join, an applicant must sign an STIFF jp yOU think you are far removed from all this, you 

oath, which includes these sentences: shouldn't. Klan rallies with armed security guards swaggering 

"With my very life I will defend the time-honored Consti- around are being held all over Florida these days. There was 

tution of the United States of America as interpreted by the one in Citrus County last weekend and another near Brandon in 

Grand Dragon of this Order and-or other officers to whom I Hillsborough County last night. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stiff reports that Gene Foreman stated that the 
Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan were picketing the Federal 
Building in Jacksonville daily with signs demanding that the FBI 
investigate Willis and his committee. 

Was this picketing going on by members of the Militant Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Stiff reprints an oath which is contained in an 
application of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan which reads : 

"With my very life I will defend the time-honored Constitution of the United 
States of America as interpreted by the Grand Dragon of this Order and-or 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3747 

other officers to whom I may be assigned for duty. Death alone will prevent 
me from defending a distressed White brother, sister or child when molested, 
insulted or physically attacked in my presence by one of Satan's two-legged 
lilack Beasts or one of his brothers, the diabolical Jew whom I believe to be 

instead of hard-core it reads — 

heart-core-hrains and c'hief supporter of the international race-mixing Commu- 
nist conspiracy, which I believe is designed for the ultimate purpose of destroy- 
ing the pure White Caucasian Race of which Almighty God has blessed me 
to be a member." 

Mr. Ballentine, can you advise the committee as to what interpre- 
tations of the time-honored Constitution you and the Grand Dragon 
have made to be followed by the Militant Knights? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Is that provision in the oath and required to be taken 
by members of the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Ballentine, this cross that was burned in front of 
the Seminole Hotel was about 2i/^ to 3 feet tall, wrapped in burlap, 
soaked in gasoline, but placed inside of the burlap was 25 or 30 .32-cali- 
ber cartridges, 9 of which actually fired during the burning of that 
cross. 

What was the purpose of placing the cartridges inside the burlap 
of the cross? 

Mr. Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux Klan give 
any concern as to the innocent people who might be on the street and 
who might be struck by these bullets as they exploded ? 

Mr, Ballentine. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. How can you dedicate yourself to the protection of 
the white race when you put a cross in the street which can very 
easily injure those people that you are dedicated to protect? 

Mr. Weltner. The witness will not be required to answer that 
question before this hearing. 

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions to ask of this witness. 

Mr. Weltner. There being no further questions by the staff, Mr. 
Ballentine, I will advise you that at this point you have the oppor- 
tunity to present any matter that you feel might be relevant to this 
inquiry. 

This is not a question, but it is an opportunity which is afforded at 
this time. 

The witness is excused. 

Mr. Stoner. Is he and all of the other witnesses excused this morn- 
ing, permanently excused ? 

Mr. Weltner. All witnesses are permanently excused, including 
Mr. Ballentine, except Mr. Huett, who, as the Chair announced, is 
not excused. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Leon Aspinwall. 

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give 
in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Aspinwall. I do. 



3748 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

TESTIMONY OF LEON ASPINWALL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Aspinwall. 

Mr. Aspinwall. Leon Aspinwall. 

Mr. Appell. That is spelled A-s-p-i-n-w-a-1-1? 

Mr. Aspinwall. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Aspinwall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, are you appearing before the commit- 
tee today in accordance with a subpena served upon you at 639 Emona 
Street, Jacksonville, Florida, on October 2Y, 1965 ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Aspinwall. Yes, sir; it is true, except for the address which 
is wrong. It is 651. 

Mr. Appell. 651. 

Mr. Aspinwall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, were you presented a copy of the 
chairman's opening statement of October 1965 and are you familiar 
with the contents thereof ? 

Mr. Aspinwall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, the subpena served upon you con- 
tained an attachment, and under the terms of the subpena you are com- 
manded to bring with you and to produce records called for in the 
attachment, paragraph 1, reading: 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, 
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the 
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and aflSliated or- 
ganizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, and the Florida Rescue Ser\'- 
ice (Florida Realm, United Klans of America) and Klavern #2, Realm of Florida, 
United Klans of America, Inc., in your possession, custody or control, or main- 
tained by you or available to you as Grand Klabee, Realm (State) of Florida 
and Exalted Cyclops, Klavern #2 Realm of Florida of the Invisible Empire. 
United Klans, knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the 
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Aspin- 
wall, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend 
to incriminate me. 

I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and privileges under the 
1st, 4tli, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitu- 
tion of the United States of America. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Aspinwall, the committee does not accept your 
grounds for refusing to produce the documents, and you are ordered 
and directed to produce them. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as Grand Klabee, Realm (State) of Florida and Exalted Cyclops Klavern #2, 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3749 

Realm of Florida of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and 
require to be maitained by you and any other officer of said organization, the 
same being in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner, Mr. Aspinwall, the committee orders and directs you 
to produce the documents at this time as described in paragraph 2 of 
the subpena. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, when and where were you born ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on the groiinds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of 
America. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, born March 6, 1937, at Offer- 
man, Georgia; finished 1 year of high school; served in the Army 
from September 1954 to 1957, and that you were released from duty 
receiving an undesirable discharge. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, in December of 1964, I put it to you 
as a fact that you were appointed by the United — Grand Dragon of 
the United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incor- 
porated, as the grand klabee or treasurer of the Realm of Florida 
of that organization. 

I ask you to affirm or deny the fact. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that in April of 1965 you 
became the exalted cyclops of Klavern No. 2 of the United Klans of 
America, which Klavern is located in Jacksonville, Florida. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that in October of 1965 you 
and other members of the United Klans of America met and formed 
a new organization known as the United Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan of America, Incorporated. 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. At the time you were the grand klabee of the Realm of 
Florida for the United Klans of America, I put it to you as a fact 
that Weldon Don Cothran was the Grand Dragon, that John Everett 
Harps was the kligrapp, that Lloyd Munlyn Williams was the great 
titan, that Al Massey was the grand klokard, that Lawrence Crews 
was the grand kludd, that Ray Peacock was the grand kladd, that Emot 
Test on- was the grand klarogo, that George Ross was the grand 
klexter, that Warren Hansen was the grand klokan and that Jack 
Dean was the grand night-hawk and tliat all of these individuals are 
from Jacksonville, Florida. 

59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 18 



3750 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Warren Hansen replaced 
Joe Bedford as the grand kligrapp and that on March 27, 1965, Joe 
Bedford was appointed by the Grand Dragon, Don Cothran, to be the 
Imperial Klexter replacing Robert Korman of Florida who was 
elected to that position in September of 19i64 at a klonvokation at the 
Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama. 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. As the grand klabee of the United Klan, are you 
acquainted with the fact that the United Klans of America maintains 
a Klavern in Wildwood, Florida, known as the Wildwood Sports- 
man Club and that the authorized signators to their bank account 
were officers Eldon C. Stone, Alfred W. Knowles, and Cody McGowan. 

Mr. AsFiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Leon Aspinwall Exhibit No. 1" follows:) 

Leon Aspinwall Exhibit No. 1 
WILDWOOD SPORTSMAN ;UJ> (2 of 3 »ifri«tur«8 Ptqulri 

• on T.., TRAHS« 'i-iO-^ or kUSINCSS WITH 

Bank of Wildwood. Wildwood. Fla. 

In raot'vtng itein for M0owt or oonaet'O's, t^ i Sir. icti ar'ty u dsa^Sitor"! latfmcttng aovnt and aHMMK 
no r»«pon»!Bilit)r Myond th« ■(•reiM ai (Ju9 iar» i ts'-'j ar» cf<i<'.'> : sui lect lo '"inal pcymant m CMll mr 
»o(v»nt ofediti. fivi Sartk wt.i not b« liiois ■ /■ •■■*,'■ v n«gi,g»r,e« <)< -tj uiy ^siectej co>FM|H>ni>«Rtt n«i tar 
)MWM m trans-t, tna AM^ ">« ."••oorxlent »> t***,-!.. ,-.» n jt c* lia!)!* •«o»t>' 'or .ts own n«Qlig*nM. Xhm Bank 
ir It* corrtspondaits rnav Mod items dir*atl« •^o'..y. tc «ny ti'^t. incijd>n'; t^s piyor. an<f atawt >ta draft 

•r Of»dit u cond'tcm* »«yrrv«"t in li«u «( aM>i -«, cM«r\;« ti»cli «ny itsn »t »ny hnm b0lor% fl'«l Mywiant, 

urtwUt^raturnad or not. auo any it*m d'awn on t t &ank rtoc yood ■( etoa* u( dushwm Of day da^aait«4. 

Pi^ Srrvlt« Chsrcr. This Account wh« i>e> «f tivc or tri&rtiw tK*!) b« fub.ect Co t^ B<iiifc'a ti titit 
CK&cycl urt'i.r tit ruie» now c&utio^ or %» n»«y t-» ««ic,)i<7l or amen.iati. 








•OOUCEO BY 



Mr. Appell. I ask you did you know that the Wildwood Klavern 
also had an auxiliary known as the Wildwood Sewing Auxiliary and 
that the officers of that auxiliary were Norma Jean Knowles and 
Alice M. Andrews? 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. As the grand klabee of the United Klans of America, 
I ask you if you knew of the existence of the United Klans of Amer- 
ica Klavern at Summerfield, Florida, known as the Summerfield Fel- 
lowship Club, whose officers were G. A. Newsom, Howard . Diet, 
and Jack L. Gwynn ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3751 

Mr, AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I ask you as klabee of the organization if you possess 
knowledge of the Summerfield Klavern having an auxiliary known as 
the Summerfield Sewing Auxiliary with Jerry Newsom and Vera M. 
Newsom as the officers of the auxiliary ? 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did the United Klans of America have a Klavern in 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, which was under the exalted cyclops of 
Charles B. Riddlehoover ? 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Because of the fact that the membership of the United 
Klans of America were dissatisfied with the handling of funds by the 
Grand Dragon by their belief that he was not a capable leader, was 
there a meeting held in October 1965 at which Charles Riddlehoover 
was elected the Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America for 
the Realm of Florida ? 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. When apparently the Imperial Wizard Shelton would 
not accede to the wishes of the membership and replace Mr. Cothran 
with Mr. Riddlehoover, was there held an election or convention, 
rather, at which the dissenting factions of the United Klans of Amer- 
ica voted to create a new organization known as the United Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Incorporated ? 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were you appointed a titan for the new Klan organi- 
zation, the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ? 

Mr. AspiNWALL. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Aspinwall, have you ever engaged in activities 
on behalf of the United Klans of America in the State of Texas ? 

Mr. Aspinwall. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
of this witness. 

Mr. Weltner. Are there any questions ? 

Mr. Buchanan. No questions. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Aspinwall, you have an opportunity to submit 
any matter that you might deem relevant at this point. 

There being no response, before excusing the witness, Mr. Appell, 
the two Florida organizations heretofore considered, the United 
Florida Ku Klux Klan and the Militant Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan, this witness is the first witness who has been associated with 
theUK:A. 

Mr. Appell. This is true. 

Mr. Weltner. The witness is excused. 

It is now 12 :30, and the committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock 
this afternoon. 



3752 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives 
Weltner and Buchanan.) 

(Whereupon, at 12 :30 p.m. Wednesday, February 23, 1966, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 1966 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Charles L. Weltner 
presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and 
Buchanan.) 

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Call your next witness, please, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. I would like to call Mr. Jack Grantham. 

Mr. Weltner. Stand and raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF JACK HAROLD GRANTHAM, SR., ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Weltner. Will counsel step up here to the bench, please ? 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, will you state your full name for the 
record ? 

Mr. Grantham. Jack Harold Grantham. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, are you appearing here today in accord- 
ance with a subpena served upon you ? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. On February 1, 1966, at Miami, Florida? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, the subpena served upon you contained 
an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the 
conditions of the subpena you were directed to bring with you and 
produce documents set forth in the attachment. 

Paragraph 1 reads : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, 
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the 
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated orga- 
nizations ; namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, or Florida Rescue Service, in 
your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you 
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Miami Klavern, Realm of Florida, of the 
Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., 
also knovpn as the United Klans of America. Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, Mr. Gran- 
tham, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3753 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on the grounds to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
13rivileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Grantham, have you received a copy of the open- 
ing statement of Chairman Willis ? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Are you familiar with the contents of it? 

Mr. Grantham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee advises you that we do not accept 
your grounds for refusal to produce the documents, and accordingly 
you are hereby directed and ordered to produce the documents called 
for in paragraph 1 of your subpena. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Miami Klavern, Realm of Florida, of the 
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Con- 
stitution of Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained 
by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your posses- 
sion, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, Mr. Gran- 
tham, I ask you to produce the books and records called for. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee directs and orders you to produce 
the documents called for in paragraph 2. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. At this point, you have a privilege at this time to 
state any reasons you have for not producing them. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 3 of your subpena calls upon you to 
produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan in your ix)ssession, custody or control, or maintained by or 
available to you as present or former Grand Klabee (Treasurer) and Exalted 
Cyclops of Miami Klavem AKA Dade Fellowship Club of the United Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 3, I ask you 
to produce the books and records called for. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee orders you to produce the documents 
called for in paragraph 3. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse on all the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, did you, in 1965, become a member of 
the United Klans of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking 
all of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, I show you a document which reports 
on a meeting held October 10, 1965, at the Holiday Inn conference room 
at Fort Pierce, Florida. 



3754 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

This document summarizes the dissension within the United Klans 
of America and reports that after the Grand Dragon for the Realm 
of Florida, Don Cothran, had scheduled a meeting at that place and 
on that date for the purpose of electing State officers, that without 
giving due notice to him of the people in attendance at that rally, 
the Grand Dragon canceled the meeting. 

In the absence of the Grand Dragon and with the delegates as- 
sembled there was elected as Grand Dragon for the UKA, Realm of 
Florida, C. B. Riddlehoover. 

I ask you to look at that document and I ask you if that factually 
summarizes that meeting ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 1" appears on pp. 
3755-S757.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, in November of 1965, were you stopped 
by agents of the Dade County Sheriff's Department driving an auto- 
mobile owned and registered to C. B. Riddlehoover? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that the document exhibited 
to you was obtained by the Dade County sheriff from that automobile. 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Weltner. That document was obtained in what manner Mr. 
Appell? 

Mr. Appell. It was obtained by the Dade County sheriff from the 
automobile of Mr. Riddlehoover after the sheriff's department stopped 
the vehicle on traffic violation when it was being operated by the 
witness. 

I hand you now a handwritten document of many pages dated 
October 24, 1965, headed "Minutes Of Meeting In Melbourne, 
Florida." ' 

I ask you if these are the minutes of a meeting called for the purpose 
of disaffiliating with the United Klan of America and re-creating those 
delegates present under the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of 
America, Incorporated? 

Mr. Weltner. While the witness is examining that document, 
have the first document marked "Grantham Exhibit 1." Wlien the 
reporter has an opportunity to mark the present exhibit, mark it 
"Grantham Exhibit No. 2." 

If you have further exhibits to show to the witness, have them 
marked serially. 

Mr. Appell. Is the document that I handed you, to the best of 
your knowledge, a true and factual reporting of the minutes of the 
meeting held on October 24, 1965 ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2." See pp. 3759- 
3768.) 

Mr. Appell. On the second from last page of the document which 
I handed you, under a heading "State Officers," there appears the 
identity of individuals elected to various offices. Grand Dragon, 
Brother Riddlehoover; king kleagle. Brother Massey; Grand Klaliff, 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3755 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 1 
01 mis DAI 0/ OCX, 10, IJtJ >'Di. 3 

FORT ?XKlC£, FLA. (UOLILAX IM (Xiiii'UixSiCE WOU) 

Drotbor Uasaey aoked i^at UnlLa wero rcprvson^ud at this Beating. Ihcy «oro 

MoIboiTie; Ulaal, /t. Lauderdale cad Jacksoir/ille* It «&a doloraiaed that 

no Onltts traro olficiolly notified that thia mi^otlati was cancelled. Brother 

Twlet oaid that Brother Zbla had roceivod a phoco call Troa tbo Grand Dragoa /C^a!^-A>;_7 

or Florid^ that tbia aeoting was callod o££. Ho nas the otdy ono roceirin^ this . 

notification. No reason ime given to him for iho cancellat;ion. It v&s dotor- 

minod ihat the electi(»i for Grand Dragon of Florida nas legally carried out 

end that this election vas to ba at 10 A. HI, this date (Oct. 10, 1965.) This 

notion for election took place at the Holiday Inn in Uclbomu en the 25th of 

Soptombcr, I965 and vas made iij Brother Peacock and waa seconded by Brother 

Biddlohoovor and vaa parsed uoaninoualy (12 Officers proaent.) It vae further 

stipulated that no one yas officially notified 1:^ Brother iiholton that this 

election CCS officially called off. Iho L. C. of Jackjonvillo statvd that he 

never received any uoi'd In reference to the nootlng being cancelled. It vas 

further stated that no official Rord ^aa ^ivcn for reason the rcllieo VGre called 

off in Lccoburg, Dade City and Clce^x^^.aior, Florida. Tbo £. C. from Jaukjcnvillo, 

Florida stated xhay still bad their Charter. Uc was aoked by a Klcnuci4i if it 

tia^ziH pulled Uua to non-pu^inont of dues u:d lack of neabcrship. Brother Joe of 

Jacksonville, Florida stated that Charter vuc cappo&ed to have boon pulled but 

it «as Illegal and that bubting of an Officer vae illegal. Brother Uassoy said 

that Charter «as gi7on back and that they had 90 days to build back up to required 

aieabership. Brother tiaesey statod that there kqs a Ela vcm operating in his oun 

back yard and him being Kleaglo had not been notified. Brother Uasscy said thare 

vas too ffluch rocking of the boat and uncertainty nmong Slavems and this nas due 

to poor leadership. Ho Stated wo are now in Ft, Pierce for the purpose of holding 

an election for Grand Dragon of Florida. That Brother Don Cothran was supposed to 



3756 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 1 — Continued 

bo b«re at 10 A« 11* this dale Xor this oicolloa which ha had toUmI sor fa la aot f 
c^ th* 2Sth or SoptcBtUsr at tbo Holiday Iim In Uolbounio, riorida* Brother 
Cothrsa w%m hvro at tha Holi(l^gr Ixm oo Saturday but had chocked out 1$ slsutea 
prior to our arrival on Saturday eroalng at it2i P.a* It «&o Turthor stipulated ' 
that the date Tor this elcutloo wus overuuo and that it «as coactitutioiui 1 to 
hold it* It V&3 QtaCod that this olcclion v^s being held dtko to iho poor Icadop- 
flhipi poor notiTicaiioa and o£ the unccn^wiUii/Lanol mmnar in Bhi(Ji firothar Cothrsa 
had nm ovor aome of tho oiricGrs* It n&t eta tod oad agrood Ui>OQ Ijy Slaneaoa that 
it ia tholr belief that ao aeabor am. ho run ovsr uodor tho constitutioa unless a 
hoarloa or trial is hold or that he io notUiod ^ CertiXied Uail or by a letter 
preoented to th«a \3f a. Klfiniirwn in good oUuidin^ end that none of this hod boaa 
ddasa Orother Poacook eta tod that ho had b«on coniacted by dlfi:ar«Dt pereciut 
aoJcing whoa wo wore eoio^ to get a qok Crond Dragon oiid that if vo had a &e« Grand 
Draesn that he ^oac assured o£ several nc« Uai'.o* Brother LcoB acid that hio Klavcni 
hod practically nil droppod out due to poor laadcrshlp and discootuntaent* Brother 
BedTord stated tho Grand Dragon hod oaJo the uuiteiscnt that he would run the State oT 
Florida the way ho oaw lit end ho did not caro nho it htu't or nhc volkca out* Brother 
BedTord node a sotion that so mako Uirothor Massey chainaan ol this aocting* Brother 
Everovt Barpe eocouucd the laotion. lioCion carriod urar.iactuxly* Brothtir Tniat aekcd 
if vo bad eD0U(;h doloi^atofi ^I'esijnt lo hold on olocxAaa* Bro.iicr Uajsey in^oraod 
BroUior Ivist that Brother £holton hod b^Dc^ notlL'iod of this cloction and it sas caljr 
voted on and paased uith tisti end place oi" clccticn siipiilatod. Brother Hiddlehoovor 
stated that if we hold electico today liuit it diould be carried out in a buEinosslila 
Banner and prouentcd to tho loporial VKizaid ma that ho hddself Tould (fo to *Tnh--.iifc 
to seo hia ena proc^at hia with tho rusuita of Uie ol^ction. ilroihsr Svcxett Uaipo 
Bode tho notion Uu^t wo hold on oloctlon* Uotion eocondod tqr firothor ?eacocic* Itotloa 
hy Brother Syapecsx to oacnd aoticxi to oloctioa of Grand Drogcn only at this tico and 
to eleot State Orficera oTter Brother Hiddlchuo/o; hod contacted Brother £hcltoa uhl 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 3757 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 1 — Continued 

ruErolts of Uio xostln^ bc:>«uat Uiua ^ls. cxs^lTlou* This swLlon ccconJsd ty 

CroUior Luoo* UotioDo ptta»e<i. 17-1* tiro 'her /xdcraca b&Uo Uio oouloa th&t 

BroUioi- PiiiOJleboovcr hr. notiir^t'^-i I'm tLc (ii-uid Dragon ot Florida, Koulco 

&aixaut'.a l^j iii'oJ;,ei' loicU liroUxor hsan atido oo-wloa that noniaailona coau« 

at tho 'ula&« iiotico socoadod ty Brochor I'jM.~Mck» Uotioa pasnsd u nan taouiily* 

Brother i-liridlehoovcr U)sti)£cd ua all and suld bo «aa bonox^ aod nould do alJL in 

biu pc;:ar to uttko U19 Staui oX ^ioiiua go lorr.-urd. Kovloa bo close Boot,ins bgr 

Srothcir .v'aii* Coccndcd \y Bro'Jior ;;/>u;;.>cn> iuotion carried ua^iiUiousJl;* 

this is a coui^iiMtat.ict) i»2 Jio aiuutv:; ci rjl^^c^lcn held &t >i^ liolidoy Xim» 

Con rcroaco Hsoii In jr't Picrto, ITlcrida cc the 10, ol Ocvoberj l-^b^ and cbicb 

a!.Tiut3a :r9 ia Uio i/r«ceedic£; p:^c9 • 

Si^odt 

Rsb-^rt J *-^ui 

A rlbur J. /i::;cU:i:aoa Jr« 

Gco.oC ^* CcuiauA 

Ucocr Ckjifida, 

Ted avist 

fU T..ii.t 

Leca Aspimwall 

Ccr&ld V. FcKlor 

J* il. i3eui'cxti 

Joaaa Uinor 

2vtTGtt Rurpe 

iiobr.rt F, fioothfe 

Jto-vacad PiAccci: 

JOu Sl.UlotlS 

Jucjc uran'>.aaa 
E» £♦ Gyupson 

CJJ. fiiddleboover 



3758 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

F. Stephens; klokard, J. Siddons; grand kludd, H. Canada; grand 
kligrapp — and in this document it is spelled "if" — initial R., last 
name White; the grand klabee, J. Grantham; the grand kladd, F. 
Andrews; the grand klarogo, B. Roache; the grand night-hawk — 
and hawk is spelled "H-a-w-k-e" — E. Harpe; the grand klexter and 
chief security guard, T. Riddle; the northern titan, R. Peacock; 
southern titan, B. Ryan ; north kleagle, J. Box ; north kleagle again, 
E. C. Stone ; southern kleagle, a notation "To be appointed by Grand 
Dragon" ; central kleagle, Leon Aspinwall, although in this document 
it is spelled E-s-p-i-n-w-a-1-l-e; and central kleagle again, Norman 
Carter. 

Is this a. true representation of the oflScers elected for the newly 
created KJnights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. This document, Mr. Grantham, states that the group 
was going to attempt to obtain a charter in the State of New York. 
Was a charter ever obtained for the organization ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Grantham, at the time the car which you were 
operating was stopped, was there strapped to the door of the vehicle 
an automatic revolver? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Can you tell the committee why a revolver was strapped 
to the door of that vehicle ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is an automatic weapon a part of the uniform of a 
Klansman ? 

Mr. Grantham. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
of this witness. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Grantham, you have an opportunity to present 
any points which you feel relevant at this point. 

There being no response, this witness may be excused. 

(Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2, introduced on p. 3754, follows:) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3759 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 

^AM^ ^^*>^^'(^ ^C'^^ycrt^ .X<4x^ ^-^^Z^ yO.^ ZX^ Z>&^ U^-<J^' 



3760 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



-<-^ 



l»f/jucX ,.^-^zl*/ ^*>-*tV^^^ tx-^cZi^ ^L'y^^ ,.gi-< ^ «-*>» >/>-^:^ 
^S^#^gCt/ ^j^^^/ * «»c^ .4M4^ .^^^2^ ZX^,^ coyl^'i^ 






i 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 3761 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2— Continued 



*-•, >fc^ ^JUuc.^*^ 



(^(^.4^-,^ Zl^Cu -T/AT/^." ^ ^l.4U.aA^ .aU<f*XjjUJ ^. Li . yy ^ ^ Z- 



^;?^Ad«»*^ y^^u^ ,^4*^ ^.^^£-*.<^ ^X^ ^:^^!t-«-^ ,<>,*.**^ ,.<sy6*-t«**/ 






..<t^ ^^ yt)UcM^ 



y 







3762 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 

^jt^vt- /^^^i>c^ .<a--**.c*v*> C^^i- ^-^Z*^. ,^.<^ ^:X^ 



CJi-^'^ 




-■■^■i*. .L/^a^t^-<jL ,^ 



^^<f-*^^^^ dc^tty^*^*^^pu,^^iLm<^ _^ZX0 ^ju^ ^^'-**^ 

^</c*.c^/ .^0<J^yn4>ye^ .<A^>^^^ >^^^^ /^gcW'^^ '/<.«-^*tf^t^ 



TJYJt, <t*<^4 




.•<*><^- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX E:LAN IN THE U.S. 3763 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2— Continued 

^^fL^n^ ^^$^ ^ ■ <^ i».aj -'■^.^^ ^U-eM.^ <:l^«M-i.<^ Z^ ^^l^**-'^ , "T^A-*-*^ 

^>*-^-^5?*^ --«^»<«^/i»^ ^^^t-*-**^a>4 -^^<,>«-Z5Jc»-*^/'t^,d:^<<**<.«^ 

_Oi>T 4'i'i«ini< • ^yir* - -^ ■^P^ /^ ^ an rr /<-i f .//i^in.f <-^^./^ ^ 




3764 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



^1*5al*u 9r7/LA^^ AU ^^^^CX Si .4^i0<^ jeUrsJt. 



>''\/^^aA^. 



^JS-^ttSB^i^-^ 




ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3765 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 

^ --<^^ ^W^^^O^,^ ~2^:Lt^-t*^^ /Sc^^-^^^^ 

^.^-^eMc^^ ^^J^, ^^ ^7:^iC. ^3^^,.^,<.^.U.u..^ 
yo*^ ZXi^ ^^:^^^ y:^^c<y^^^ cU^<X/ ^^ --.<iv^l<,*^^pcil- 




f «<fcC** 







iit4^m^ 



59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 19 



3766 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



" /f^/}fZ^(rC /' iS Ifo/iC/^^ 



't 



K 



J.f0d F sflJU ULA *-"-^ 



-"^^ A 



^^^ TAAi- / rl^^ /ff- ff j /^ (!^A t.r£A^ 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3767 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2— Continued 



JcuJ^-^^^^^^^ - i^'^1 ^J^^"-^^- 



If /♦ '^ 
/I' 



i 






3768 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jack Grantham Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 

^ fS'^o S^^^/^ ^s^JTJ^pj^ Jiarjtje^ 




Mr. Weltner. You may call your next witness, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr, Charles B 
Riddlehoover. 

Mr. Weltner. Stand and raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. RiDDLEHoovER. I do. 

Mr. Weltner. Be seated, please. 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES BAKER RIDDLEHOOVER, ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, J. B. STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, would you state your full name for 
the record ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3769 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. Charles Baker Riddlehoover. 

Mr. Appell. That is R-i-d-d-1-e-h-o-o-v-e-r ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Counsel, please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Stoner. J. B. Stoner, attorney at law, Marion Building, Au- 
gusta, Georgia. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, are you appearing here today in 
accordance with a subpena served upon you on January 28, 1966, at 
3111 Houston Street, Fort Lauderdale, Florida? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, the subpena served upon you con- 
tained an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and 
under the conditions of the subpena you were ordered to bring with 
you and to produce documents set forth in the attachment. 

Before I read it to you, Mr. Riddlehoover, were you supplied a copy 
of the chairman's opening statement of October 1965 and are you 
familiar with its contents ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 1 reads : 

AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible 
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also 
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service or Florida 
Rescue Service in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you 
or available to you as present or former Grand Titan, Realm of Florida of the 
Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., 
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights 
and privileges under the 1st, Itli, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th 
amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee does not accept your refusal to pro- 
duce the documents, and accordingly you are ordered to produce the 
documents called for. 

Mr. Riddlehoo\'er. I refuse on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee will give to you this opportunity 
to give it any reason you have for the inability to produce the docu- 
ments. 

If you have any reason for being unable to produce them, you have 
the opportunity at tliis time to make those reasons known. 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former Grand Titan, Realm of Florida of the United Klans of 
America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" 
of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any 
other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody 
or control. 



3770 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. RiDDLEHoovER. I ref usc on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Weltner. You are directed and ordered to produce the docu- 
ments called for in paragraph 2. 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I refusc on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 3 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the 
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the United Knights 
of the Ku Klux Klan in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by 
you or available to you as present or former Grand Dragon of the United 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 3, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I refusc on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. You are directed by the committee to produce the 
documents called for in paragrapli 3. 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I rcfusc on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, in April of 1965, did you become a 
member of the United Klans of America ? 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I Tcfusc to auswcr on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking 
all of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 
10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, records obtained from The First 
National Bank in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, relating to the account of the 
Alabama Rescue Service, which is the account under which the im- 
perial account of the United Klans of America is maintained, reflects 
that money was received into that account from the Broward Fellow- 
ship Club using Post Office Box No. 6043 in Davie, Florida. 

I hand you several documents of the Broward Fellowship Club and 
an application for the post office box, and ask you if the signature of 
applicant on the post office box application is your signature ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that these documents be marked 
"Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Weltner. Let the reporter mark them at this time. 

(Documents marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 1." Appli- 
cation for post office box and money order appear on p. 3771.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, on October 28, 1965, was your vehi- 
cle, operated by Jack Grantham, stopped by the Dade County Sheriff's 
Department ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Were there in that vehicle at that time documents 
relating to the United Klans of America and the United Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, through the cooperation of the Dade 
County Sheriff's Department, the staff has obtained the documents 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 1 



3771 



P.O.B« 601*3, D»Tl«, n«rlda 

APPLICATION FOR POST-OFFICE BOX . iHL^t leP.^^ 



J^J./.^..^ 

Tba undanJgBMi berebj applic* for tbe om of a boi in Um po*t oCe* at 



and agree* 

to comply wiih tba poatal rcfulaiiona and rutea relaiive to the renlioK and nae of poat .office bozea. 

If the bni ia ranted for a corporation, tbe applicant should write on the linaa below the name of ihe 
corporation: if for a firm, tbe name of tbe firm and tbe fuJI naoM of eacb of ita iMaibera wboae mail ia 
to be placed in tbe boi. 



of applicant X .^^^..;;^tiucii^»uLCrfn^^^ 

of bmiaiii ,<y t /^<--^-'*-^ 



Signal lire 
Character 

Buaineaa addreaa ./^i^n^f.^. 

Reaideoce mA6nt»-2/.l.l--7^jL-< 
Referencea 



... Zone No. . 
... Zone No. . 



•po la— wua-a 



.£i_-jR 



7 — ELEVEK STORES -.-.m-. 




KNOW rewn 



CASH ONLY 

* Mcouaac 

■• AVMLAaLt 



«■ GOM^AMT ACUa ra ,AV AT M aUMSWAV, Nnv TOW, N. V. 



/jt — R-i.c^L 



THE 
SUM 
OF 



WJIf M <!6trf 4*"" "* 



3w^^S*''®7Isr>o5!Octs 



rni ■■nngjCMC 



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..£C 



DO KOT CAAH IF AU 



■TCTCP 



^^^£ 



^ 



i:aooo"Q00 5i:>aia «?oia5E»t«,Q5»' 



which were in this vehicle, and I shall now question Mr. Riddlehoover 
with respect to them. 

Mr. Weltner. Ask him if that document, Exhibit No. 1, was in his 
car at that time and place, as well as these exhibits, 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, I show you Grantham Exhibit 
No. 1, a report on a meeting of the United Klans of America, Octo- 
ber 10, 1965, which in effect summarizes itself by the fact that you 
were elected by those assembled to be the new Grand Dragon of the 
United Klans of America, and Grantham Exhibit No. 2 which are 
the minutes of a meeting held in Melbourne, Florida, October 24, 1965, 
at which the delegates assembled disaffiliated with the United Klans 
of America and voted to constitute themselves as a new organization 
known as the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated. 



3772 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Were these two documents, Grantham Exhibits 1 and 2, in your 
vehicle ? 

(Documents handed to witness.) 

Mr. Weltner. The witness, having had the opportunity to examine 
the documents, Mr. Appell, put the question to him once again. 

Mr. Appell. Were those documents in your vehicle ? 

Mr. RiDDLEHOOVER. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, I have a mimeographed document 
which is captioned "THE FOLLOWING MUST BE EMPHATI- 
CALLY CARRIED OUT," and it relates to initiation fee of Klans- 
men and the division of that money between the State and the Klavern. 

It states : 

STATE DUES GOES TO— P.O. BOX 9472, Lake Forest Station, Jacksonville, 
Fla. 

DUBS TO PROVINCE # 3-^Mr. GHABLBS RIDDLEHOOVER, 3111 Hous- 
ton Street, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 

The second document is headed "FROM THE OFFICE OF THE 
GRAND DRAGON," and it also deals with the division of initiation 
fees. 

Initiation fees shall be $15.25. Ten dollars stays in the Klavern per 
man. Three dollars of this initiation fee up to 25 men go to the kleagle 
of that province, the kleagle being the organizer, $2.25 paid to the 
State. Reinstatement dues, $10.25 ; $2.00 to be paid to the kleagle by 
the Grand Dragon ; $2.50 paid to the State, and the remainder staying 
in the Klavern. Monthly dues, $2.00 per man unless the Klavern as 
a body votes for it to be more. Imperial dues, 50 cents per man goes 
to Mr. Shelton, ^5 cents goes to the State, 25 cents goes to the titan of 
each province, which will be paid by the Grand Dragon. 

The third document in this gi'oup that I will hand you and mark it 
"Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 2" is a "KLIGRAPP'S MONTHLY 
REPORT." 

I hand you those documents, Mr. Riddlehoover, and ask you if they 
were contained within your vehicle ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Documents marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibits Nos. 2-A 
through 2-C," respectively, appear on pp. 3773-3775.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, I now hand you a series of docu- 
ments, the first dated June 14, 1965, signed Don Cothran, Grand 
Dragon, which states in effect that this letter is to inform all Klans- 
men of the UKA, Incorporated, Realm of Florida, that Klansman 
Charles Riddlehoover of Fort Lauderdale has been appointed to the 
office of titan of southern Florida. 

The second document, dated July 9, 1965, addressed to "All Units," 
salutation "Klansmen" : 

Brother Rip Riddlehoover is now Klaliff in the State of Florida. Brother 
Osborne is Titan of Southern Florida. 

Another document, dated August 26, 1965, signed Don Cothran, 
Grand Dragon, reads as follows : 

At this time I would like to call too [sic] your attention that Frank Stephens 
of Ocala, Fla. and Al Massey of Jacksonville, Fla. will organize under the di- 
rection of Brother Charles Riddlehoover. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3773 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 2-A 

. ' T HB FOL LOWINQ HUST BS EUPHATICALLT CARBIID OUTt 

Ih« initiation fee ot • klansoan is $15«25« Of this emAunt, $2*50 
will CO to the state— *2. 50 gcee to the province office in Port 
lauderdale, Fla. The remainder >dll p;o to the klavem and kleagle* 
The reinstatement fee is $10.25. Of this omonut $5*00 stays in 
the klavem and the ranalnder goes to the state. 

The Initiation fee of a lady In the Ladles AuxHiasry is tf7*^5* 
Of this amount ^r2.25 will reniRln In the klavem— $2.50 will go 
to the state end ;ii>2.50 will go to the provinoe in Fort I^uderdals, 

Pla. Dues Trt.ll reraaln the ssme — ■f2.00 a month, unless the Eo 

sees fit vjlth the permlcson of the body to make it more. 

FOR KEli C'LYt Fifty cents per men t^II co to the National office 
regardiesE whether they ate charter stren^rht or not. Twenty-five 
cents v.'lll come to the st-ate end twenty-five cents will go to the 
province In Fort louderdale, Fls. 

All donr.tlons that are talren at the mill as In the state of Florida 

will be divided betrecb Province #1 and Province #3 for the puiposs 
of securlnc literature. Let me tenilnd you provinoe #3 thct you 
be held rceponsible for ybur own lltartture. Province #1 will bs • 
held r^sDoncible for literature lor pro vice nl and Province ^2. 
Ef.ch nrovlnce vrlll be held responsible for their own security 
guards. I.'o security guard will go Into another area without the 
permission of the Titan. 

Let me ra^tnd you also, tliat If Kr. CJielton comes to the State 
of Florida to speak, that there v.lll not be Just one province 
there, but, the state as a whole will be there under the direction 
of the Grand Dragon. 

At this time I would also like to reralnd you that this past week-snd ^ 
in Vlldwood, Pla, I gave two orders that was not carried out. ■*' 

Ho. 1— That the first speakers would be allowed 15 minutes each* 
No.2— >-I asked the head of the security to put two security 

gu?^rd5? e.t the entrnnce to the relly ground. 
Neither od hre two orders were oerrled out. This will not happan 
again at any rally that I am In charge of. 

I am sending each man a mop di'^ignatlng thetr province. Now that 
the state dues are only twenty-five cents per man a month, would 
you please see that these reports are In by the 10th of each 
Bonth, regardless if there is only sItt men. 
So that there is no mistake as to where they have to be sent 
the mailing address is listed belowt 

STATE DUES GOES TO— P.O. BOX 9^72 

LpJce Forest Station 

Jacksonville, Fla. 
DtTES TO PBOVINCS #3— HH. CHARLES RIDDLEHOOVEB 

3111 Houston Street 

Port Lauderdale, Pla. 

Ihere will have to be tvio reports made out. One for the state and 
one for province #3. (IT JS A MUST) T::a.T THESE REPOBTS be in by 
the lOth of each and every month. I hope that this will make ths 
State of Florida go forward and that we find it In our haarts 
to wozk together for our great cause. 



3774 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 2- B 

FBDM tilf OFFICB OF IHB 
CBamD OB/LOON 



Jaokaonvllle, Fla. 
Sept«ab«r 21, I965 

ATTENnON VtStMi K/^-^ ^/^ ^ 

At this tlae» Z find that we cajinot go by the last letter 
that was put out. As I have talked with the Grand Dragons of 
the other states and I find thAt bendlns backwards to make 
STerybody happy I hare broken the Constitution, 

IHIHATIOH PBES-— $15.23 110. 00— Stays In the klavern 

per man. 
% 3.00 of this Initiation 

fee up to 25 men goes 

to the klea^le of that 

province. 
% 2,25 Is paid to the State. 

TBJ3 $3.00 per man up to 25 men Is paid to the kleagle 
by the Orand Dra^^on. 

KBZNSIATBMENT DUES — $10.25- — ^2.00 Of thlsls paid to the 

kleagle by the Grand 
Oregon. 
$2.50— >— Is paid to the State. 

REMAINDER OP IHIS STAYS 
IN TUB KIAVEBN. 

H0N1BLX DUSSt<>->**—-$2.00-— -— — — Per man unless the klavem 

as a body votes forit to 
be more. 



!.50 1 
.25 C 
.25 c 



ZKPSBIAL DUES — — — »-$ .50 .— Per man goes to Mr. Shelton 

-Goes to the State. 
-Goes to the Titan of each 
Province, which will be 
paid by the Grand Dragon. 



I have been advised by the National Offlve, If any \inlt sees 
fit to print up any literature, It must be approved by the Grand 
Dragon. Also, If any unit prints any literature, imless otherwise 
told by the Grand Dragon, they will be responsible for the bills. 
To my knowledge this approves with the Constitution of the lOIIVSa 
KLAN OP AMERICA. As Grand Dragon of the UIJITED KIAN OP AMERICA, 
Z have to do the best I can by every man. 

PROVINCE #2 will be moved up on the N.W. fraa KENTON BEACH 

361 to GREENVILLE, PIA, on 221 on FP through ASHVILLE, PIA. on to 
the Alabama state line. If anyone in Provlnve #2 desires to stay 
under Provinoo #1 they will be allowed to do so. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3775 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 2-G 
■ KLIOHAPP'3 MONTHLX HEPOHT « — ■'-' 

Klan No. __„^ Realm of __________________ Month of . 19___ 

This T'-port must be accurately made out In duplicate by the Kllgrapp 
and sent to proper headquarters NO LATER THAN THE TENTH of the month Im- 
mediately following the last month. Klans In Organized Realms send ONE 
COPX TO XOUH STATE OFFICE AND ONE COPY TO IMPERIAL OPi'ICE. 

To His Majesty, the Impf>rlal '-'Izard, Knights of the Ku Klux Klani 
The following Is my report for the month of . IQ 



1. Klan Located at _______^________^___ State of 

2. Number KlonVlaves held _____■ 

3. Average attendance _____ 

4. Number of members In good standing last 

report (If new Klan, number nhen chartered) 

5. Number members naturalized this month __ 

6. Number ministers naturalized this month __ 
7» Number members reinstated this month __ 
8* Number members received by transfer this 

month __ 

CROSS HEKBERSUIP 
9* Deductions I a. - Suspended __ 

b. - Transfered 

o, - Died 

TOTAL DEDUCTIONS 

Net Kembershlp In Good Standing This Month 

10. Tax on at 25i^ (ONi: KO.^TH) $ 



Total Amount Due Imperial Headquarters This Report & 

♦ • * KAKE CHECK PAYABLE TO UR/u.D DRAGON IN YOUR REaLM • « • 

• • "Make Check PAYauLE TO ALAiiA>lA HE;>CUE SERVICE FOR IMPERIAL TAA ♦ • • 

Remarket In organized Realms Reports will be sent to Grand Dragon's 
Office for certification. 

Date t A.D., 19 I A.K. 



Signed ______________^ Kllgrapp 

Cerlfled by .E.C, Klan 

No. __^__ Realm of 

SEAL P.O. Address 



They will set up units under and as are told by Brother Riddlehoover. These 
men will be known as State Kleagles. 

The next document, unsigned, is headed "Jacksonville, Florida, 
September 6, 1965," relates to Province No. 3 from New Smyrna Beach 
to Homosassa to Key West, Florida : 

My assistant Brother Charles Riddlehoover is in charge of this area and who- 
ever he names as Titan and Security Guard. 

Document No. 5, also signed by Don Cothran as Grand Dragon, lists 
under Province 3 in charge, Charles Riddlehoover, with question 
marks following "titan" and "security guard." 

Document No. 6 is a document which also lists Charles Riddlehoover 
as Province 3 as the kleagle. The titan has a question mark, and 



3776 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

there is under this the officers of the State and this document is dated 
prior to Octdber 10, 1964, because it announces that officers meeting 
would be held on October 10, 1964. 

I hand you these documents, Mr. Riddlehoover, and I ask you if 
they were contained in your vehicle? 

Mr. Weltner. Mark the set of documents Riddlehoover Exhibit 
No. 3. 

(Documents marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibits Nos. 3-A 
through 3^F," respectively. See pp. 3782-3787.) 

Mr. Appell. I would like to have marked, Mr. Chairman, "Riddle- 
lioover Exhibit No. 4" 

Mr. Weltner. Place your question once again to the witness, Mr. 
Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Were these documents in your vehicle? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, was there within the United Klans 
of America, in August of 1965, a Klavern known as the Venice Rescue 
Service, Venice, Florida? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I hand you a document which is marked "Riddle- 
hoover Exhibit No. 4," in longhand, addressed to the Broward Fellow- 
ship Club, salutation : "Dear Mr. Riddlehoover," and signed "Sincerely 
yours, John Peeples," in which there is set forth in the body of the 
letter the officers elected according to Mr. Peeples on Tuesday night 
prior to 8-11-1965. 

I ask you if that was in your vehicle? 

Mr. Chairman, I submit the exhibit as Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 4. 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 4" appears 
on p. 3777.) 

Mr. Weltner. Is that addressed to Broward Fellowship Club? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir; with the salutation "Dear Mr, Riddlehoover." 

Mr. Weltner. Wliat is the staff's comprehension of the Broward 
Fellowship Club? 

Mr. Appell. As we established in Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 1, Mr. 
Riddlehoover is the applicant for a post office box used by Broward 
Fellowship Club and the imperial account of the United Klans of 
America shows receipt of money from the Broward Fellowship Club. 

It is the committee's information that this was a Klavern of the 
United Klans of America in Florida. 

iMr. Weltner. All of the documents previously marked and ex- 
hibited are documents pertaining to the United Klans of America ; is 
that correct? 

Mr. Appell. Except for Grantham Exhibit No. 2, which Grantham 
Exhibit 2 is the minutes of a meeting held October 24, 1965, at which 
former members of the United Klans of America met and reconsti- 
tuted themselves into a new Klan organization known as the United 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated. 

Mr. Weltner. Let me see Grantham Exhibit No. 2. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3777 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 4 

/4vu**- iP-JUtcA. -it/U/A 

^ ^£?. Boy </^'P 

yrA^tAJU ^^«r*.I^ .J'ry^fuyfi "yin^rtcC^^lJf- ^ •O^k^'i,,^ Xj"- 

./i><^ ^•^ ^3<s^ xO-rt«**. c^-ipU. T^-t^^r t^^Ut^ty».j '^a^ i 
/r-^.*^, 

t^-Zj. -m^ ;6W. §^*«- <2<r«UJ. o^^^t-v^ d^<-'^>*^^''^>^ 

^ /,^j»c ;5^ ./u;^ /=<:^^^ M^x,JL^A^ e->nd^*^.*^ 



3778 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Eiddlehoover, I show you a document which is 
headed at the top "To Robert M. Shelton Imperial Wizard IT.K.A." 
It is titled "A PETITION."' It reads : 

We the members of the U.K.A. hereby file the petition to oust Don Gothran 
Grand Dragon of the state of Fla. from the U.K.A. Reason for ousting. 

1. No ability as a leader. 

2. No clear record of funds. 

3. Does not give assistance to Klaverns. 

4. When a man does a good job as organizer or for the good of the U.K.A. Mr. 
Cotheran [sic] suspends or demotes these men. 

There is contained the hand signatures of different individuals, in- 
cluding C. B. Riddlehoover. 

I ask you if this document was in your vehicle? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I would like to have this document admitted as "Rid- 
dlehoover Exhibit No. 5." 

Mr. Weltner. It will be marked and all of the documents will be 
offered at the conclusion of the witness' testimony. 

(Document marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 5" appears 
on p. 3779.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, there is a document dated Octo- 
ber 12, 1965, addressed to the United Klans of America, Realm of 
Florida, "Dear Brother Shelton." 

This document is signed "Yours for Christ and America, C. B. 
'Rip' Riddlehoover," and it reads : 

I sit here tonight in deep regret of having to write you this letter. 

I have tried to contact you on numerous occasions without success. 

Our great organization, United Klans of America, in the state of Florida needs 
help — and very quickly. The kind of help we need is Leadership. 

There is no limit to the growth of U.K.A. in this state if we can rid our ranks 
of this terrible friction and ill will. 

I do want you to know and understand that Brother Al Massey and I have 
put forth ix)ssibly more time, effort and money moving up and down this state 
every weekend building this organization than anyone in the state of Florida. 

I am not trying to win any medals or recognition. I am interested only in 
organizing and going forward. My interest and intentions in the organization 
began in Broward County, Florida (of which I am a resident.) I started out 
as an E.C of the local Klavern. Then suddenly Brother Cothjan wants me to 
be a Titan. One month later he changes my rank to Grand Klaliff ; then decides 
to change me back to a Kleagle. Now, I understand (without notification) 
I am just a Klansman. 

I ask you Brother Shelton what kind of Klan business is this? To be honest 
I don't think any oflicer under Don Cothran is anything, as he appoints a new 
list about every month. 

I'll tell you Mr. Shelton we can never go forward as long as this dissension 
and turmoil prevails in our state. I am pleading with you to come forward and 
straighten this matter out before it gets into our Klaverns and we lose a lot 
of good men. 

I am enclosing the minutes of our meeting held in Fort Pierce on Oct. 10, 1965 
at which time an election was to have been held as agreed upon by the Grand 
Dragon himself and supported by the majority of state officers. The election 
was held by 17 delegates who were not notified by anyone that no election 
was to be held. I am leaving the legality and certification of this entirely up 
to you. 

I am enclosing check in amount of $40.00 to cover cost of Fiery Crosses which 
I received from you. 

I ask you, Mr. Riddlehoover, one, did you write a letter identical to 
this to "Brother Shelton"? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3779 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 5 
To .tBob«rt M. Shsltoa Iap«rl«l ffltard O.K.A. 

A PKTITiaH 

¥e the ■enbers of the O^ItAt hereby file the petition 
to oust Don Cothran Oraad OraigoB of the itate of Tla. 
froB the U.K. A'* Baaaom for ooetlnc. 

1. No ability as a leaAer 

2. Ro clear record of funds 

3. Does not glre aasiatance to CaTema 

4: When a Ban doea a good job aa organiser or for the 
good of the U.K. A. Mr* Cotheran aaapenda or denotea 
these Ben. 















^/yf' 



•i) 




I 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. I ask you whether or not a copy of this document, the 
copy from which I read, or a copy of the copy, w^as contained in your 
vehicle ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Weltner. The witness has been furnished a copy of the docu- 
ment for examination. 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 



3780 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

(Document marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 6" and re- 
tained in committee files.) 

Mr. Appell. I ask you if the Grantham Exhibit No. 1, which I 
exhibited to you, was a copy of the minutes of the October 10 meeting 
which you forwarded along with that letter to Imperial Wizard 
Shelton? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Is it a fact that because you received no response from 
that letter that your group met on October 24 and voted to disaffiliate 
with the United Klans of America and affiliated yourselves into a new 
Klan organization known as the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
Incorporated ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, I show you a copy of pages from an 
address book. I ask you if that address book containing the informa- 
tion thereon was in your vehicle ? 

Mr. Weltner. Mark it "Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7." 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Document marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7." See 
pp. a788-3798.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, I ask you whether or not the desig- 
nation after the names shown in this address book, designation such 
as BR No. 176, and so forth, if the BR-176 is the numerical designa- 
tion of a Klansman given to the individual whose name appears next 
to it? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Would that mean Broward County ? 

Mr. Appell. It does not, Mr. Chairman, because in alphabetical 
order you will find on one page people whose last names are M, BR- 
176, BR-171, BR-151, and BR-126 and the BR number runs as low 
as 103 and up into the late lOO's. 

Mr. Riddlehoover, I show you a list of names and ask you whether 
or not in your vehicle at the time it was stopped by the Dade County 
Sheriff's Office at the time it was driven by Mr. Grantham, whether 
there were applications for membership in the United Klans of Amer- 
ica of the individuals whose names are listed on this list ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

(Document marked "Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 8." See 
pp. 3799,3800.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the documents exhibited to 
the witness marked "Riddlehoover 1 through 8," inclusive, be admitted 
at the points where they were referred to. 

Mr. Weltner. Without objection, they will be admitted at the 
aj^propriate points. 

Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3781 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Riddlehoover, you have an opportunity at this 
point to offer any matter that is relevant. This is not a question, but 
it is an opportunity that you are afforded at this point. 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, is it the result of the investigation of 
the committee that, when the organization United Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan was formed from the former UKA members in the State 
of Florida in October 1965, Mr, Riddlehoover became the Grand 
Dragon of that new organization ? 

Mr. Appell. That is what the records of the meeting founding 
convention dated October 24, 1965, reflect, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. That would be the highest office, in the organization 
created in October known as the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Appell. Tliis was the highest office that they provided for; 
yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. Does the staff have any information about how 
many imits or Klavems of the United Knights there are at this time ? 

Mr. Appell. We have no certain knowledge, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Riddlehoover, how many Klaverns are there of 
the United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the State of Florida ? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Riddlehoover, are you today a member of any 
Klan organization? 

Mr. Riddlehoover. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions. 

Mr. Weltner. I note that this organization as a separate Klan 
organization came into existence subsequent to the beginning of these 
hearings in October of last year. Consequently, there is no designa- 
tion on the map which is here behind the desk of the newly formed 
United Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

I think it would be helpful in order to supplement the analysis that 
has previously been made and made a part of this record to develop 
it as fully as possible based upon the testimony and the investigation 
the full extent of our knowledge concerning the location of Klaverns 
and any cover they use and the present situation with regard to UKA 
and United Knights within the State of Florida. 

There being no further questions, the witness will be excused and 
the comLmittee will be in recess for approximately 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee 
members present at time of recess and when hearing resumed : Repre- 
sentatives Weltner and Buchanan.) 

(Charles Riddlehoover Exhibits Nos. 3-A through 3-F, No. 7, and 
No. 8, introduced on pages 3776 and 3780 follow :) 



59-222 O— 67 — pt. 5 20 



3782 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-A 



June lif, 1965 
9Mf Kermard Street 
Jacks onvllle, P:j.orlda 



TO ALL UNITS 

REUM OFrLOalDA 

CNTIEO KLAKS OP FLORIDA 

DE'.H KlAJIGlffiNi 

This letter is to inform all Klansnen of the UKA, Inc», Realm 
of Florida that Klansman Sharles Riddlehoover of Ft« Lauderdale, 
h-^s been appointed to the office of TITAN of Southern Florida 
and will work directly with myself ani Brother Lloyd Williams, 
who is Titan of Northern Florida. The Titans will han-tle the 
disbursement of all ^lacs emblems* 

Please announce this change in your next Idonldave assenbly and 
If there are any further, questions oonccrninc this matter please 
let us know* 

Yours, 

For God, Country and Our Hace, 

Don Cothran, "Jrand Dragon 
United Kians of America, Inc. 
Realm of '"lorida 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3783 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-B 



iOl Oilta 

Qdtod I2jxa of AaKifio^ Ino* 

Buln of Florida 

HSDSCtDt 

Qrothor R!p Rid lltdxxDvor I9 nsv SLaliff In tho State of Rorlda* 
Brot.'nr Ooboms la Sitfp of Doutium Flori(2a« 

Z vill bo out of fftato cppra^JxAd^ ttcoo voo\:Om TiroVbcs':^uy!laixxrrat 
vUl bo ia oorploto otignn of t:» Ototo of Tlxxiiia litlo Z aa Qonn* 

*y lOmarm op klaraOacV ojsj:;* tc^isic '-IdrsraXt ootoido of nootlng 
wHl bo ouaproctod fbe o parioi of 90 dxra* 

i^ U-jtmec or U-aagoc^ {r>lrc over ilo rj*a bood or vboovor is In 
oliorco uiU olao bo oospcn^xl* 

tJIicQ Z rotum Z uiU booo ocxa» Zltoraturo to cS-vo to tha di£&xx»t 
viito* Z bopo fit tI:iio tdm tbo Idcnxoo end IJLancdadlns of Slcslda 
ecD stop tboir oWl^ftft vt^ wA so XtevurJ* 



YburOf 
Cts* 05d flod 



n Cotlrcn 

L.uod' itXci^ of flncrftea» Jao^ 
Roolaof Floorlda 



Brother Ted TMist 



3784 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-C 

JacksKivUle^ Florida 
August 26, '!$($ 



United Klon of Aaorioa 
P.oaln of Florida 
Attention SC»a 

At tliid tlc» I %ioAld like to call too your attention that Pracic 

Stepliena of Ocala, Vla^ md Al Ma-.coj- of Ja2'.:sorville, Via \dll 

orsanis© imder the dlrec+Aon of Drothar Ciuurlos Hlddlehxyver* 

They will set tip tsiLts tmder and as oro told ti^ Brothoc IdLdJlaboorvetrt 
These raen will be lcnm:n as State I<U*acioc» 

A^so lot it be lonoiai that Brother Carlos Lopcr vill be over all 
eecurlty guards In l'oi'tfu:>m ?la« At thia ti:x I would like to 
rendnd all EC'S in IJorthem Fla, to holp 2rotl:or lOper to coco 
up vith soQo mon as security guards ai'O badly ncoded jba VArtbem 
FSLa* 

Brother Rid>ilehoovar also vUl have 1?) appoint one to be in charge 
of scotiri-ty guards In Scnzttem Fla» Theso tax idll vork togethor 
for better seourltgr* 



Yovu'S 

5br Cod and Country 



/C 



fii O'-^/u 



Don Cot rsn 
Groxid Dracon 
Realm of Florida 
VKLTSD KLAN 0? AMSRICA 



DCt^ 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3785 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-D 

Jaokeonvlll©, Florida 
September o, I965 



Attention to all EC»st 

As of September 4th, I965 the follovrlns >»611 be carried out, 
Ihe frorit state of Florida will be divided Into three provlnoes. 
I am proud to announce thati 

PflDVTKCE #1— Consists fron the Al^bnira strte line — 1-75 down 
to k2. Oils area Is In charge of Tlten — Brother Lloyd Wllllems-- 
Kleegle Bobby Graham from l^^llniiflcsciff and Head Security Guard- 
Brother Carlos E. Loper from Jacksonville, Florida. 

pncVIKCE #2 Starte from 1-75 to Spst Coast to New Snyma 

Beach, Fie, Ihls district Is under TttDji— Raymond Peacock- 
Organizer — -Al Kassey and rhoever tbey have as security gunM, 

PHDVirCE ^3 Frxjm New Smyrna Beach, Fla. to Horaasassa to 

Key V^est, Fla,\Ky asslstflnt Brother Charles Riddlehoover Is 
In charge of this area and vhoever he names as Titan and 
Security Guard. 

Klensmen, let me at this time specify clearly, that the Grand 
Dragon villi have the right to go Into these territories for 
Inspection at any time he wishes. I also clearly state that 
no klansmen vtIII not 50 into another province without the per- 
mission of the Grand Dragon. 

It Is our steadfast wishes that the Stnte of Florida grovr- and 
we ere doing xihat we can to make It grow. Each province »^11 
be able to have their rallies at any time as they see fit. 
But, the Gnjid Dragon requecte thr.t i^rch pro'"lncc notify hire 
one week In advance of any rally held In the State of Florida. 

Let me remind you at this time that you ^-i-ll be held responclbl* 
of your areas, that you will not put rr.yone on the plntform 
that Is not a United Klaji of Anericr kl'-npirian oft klrnrlrdy. 
iasarges vrill be banishment froa the United Klan of America. At 
all times a klansmen or klanslady ;.-ill speak in Interest of 
the United Klan of America. AIfo, let me remind you that at 
ell times that the State of Florida comes imder the direction 
of the Grand Dragon, At thld time, I will remind you that at 
any time a charge is mafle sgplnst any klansmsn or klanslady, 
there will be as many as twelve men sitting at the trial, Befor* 
Z win recognize the charges. Also, there must be one state 
offloer there to take ziotea for me and the Imperial board. 



3786 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-E 

At all rallies no inltlatioB ohaxsa vlll b« aada until tha nan 
ara oh«oked out. 

this !• a list of vAio is in the three provinoesi 

PIDVINCB #1 

TITAN Lloyd 3. Wllllens 

. Organizer— Bobby Graham v 

HEAD SECUQITY GUABD-— Carlos S. Loper 

PH0VINCE52 

TITAN- — Hfiymond Peacock 
ORG-VNIZEH— Al Massoy 
SECUEtTY GUAHD-— ???? 

PHDVIHCE#3— - - 

IN C^UHG EOF CHARLES RIDDLSnoOVER 
TITAN—???? 
• • SECURITY GUARD ???? 

X f any oreanlzer vdll looH at the.'^e mr.pe very oarefully and has 
any oppll cations, monoy or otherwise, rail then to the Grand 
Dragon ftnd he vlll see that It goes to the proper place. A receipt 
will be sent for the money that Is received. 



Yours for God/and Country 

Don Cothi'an 
.Gmnd Drac-on 
UIJITED YUAli OF AMERICA 
Reala of Flo rids 



DCtJrl 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3787 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 3-F 

A STAT8 OPFICSBS MEBTISOr WILL BB HELD OCIDBSB 10th, AT HOUDAX Xm. 

PLACE FOBT PIEHCE, FLA. 

TIK.E-i: lOiOO A«— SirNDAT, 

Thlt neetlng la aoalled so that we vaj Iron oat an/ dlfferanoaa that 
va say have/ 

It hne been ay duty for over a yeftr to shuffle men around to 
try pnd find the scan beat fitted for each office they hold. 
Also loyalty to these positions ond prompt response means a lot. 
At this time I find It neooecGnry to reappoint State Officers until 
tlaa of election vhloh will be this oo-nlnc sprlns. 

Officers for PROVINCE #1 vlll cc :io under TIT.\N Uoyd WllUama. 

KLiL\GLZ— — OCTVAX LANIRFi— — nE.HUlNDO, FLA. 

SECUniTT GUARDS BEaAIM -EIE SAI-iE. 

Pxo'Tlnea #2 Titan-— Bnynond PcecooIc 
Kleagl»<~Al Ni£G3ey 

ProTlnoa #3 Kleoglft—Cherles Rlddlchoovep 
Titan 7??????? 

Z feeftthat these men are the best to orsanlze theee territories* 
Z also feel that these men are best f 11 ted for thesa posltlona. 

SIATE OFFICERS 

DON KHIGHT VICB PRHS, FT, lAUDERDALB 

Tburton bi^lL '>;'!!£ lsctoset i -ns'^T'^KDO, fla 

.REV, Konnc aL\ru'-iN H~r^:Aj:Do, fia, 

-BIEO'A LBCMAHD 31CRETART— — JACT:DC:IVILLE, FLA 

•CAHLOS E, LOPETl— TaEASU.'lEB- -JACKGOMTILLE, FIA. 

-ADCfiJATni— — COrJDUCTOP. KT. LAUDSHDALE, FIA. | 

-FFAMX CHAIG— IHNER GDRnS JACKSONVILLE, FLA. 

'B.M PSIUEL— — — — OUTiin GUARD— —OCAL«>, FIA. ' 

.— VAPaiai HAi;SOM———i:iVr"-nTlGAl'OS— JACKSONVILLE, FIA* 

KLOKANM———- WILLIAM S. LL01T5 DOARD OP IN7ESnGATOE3 — DELLVIEW,PL 

CIAHTTCE VILCOM— — — — FOHT PIlHCE, FIA. 

NIGHT HAVK— — ????77?77????77— — Cl'OK CAilDILATES — FT. lAUDaHDALB 

Gentlemen, I ' -ive looked at each stnta srow with no oompleAnta 
and I have alco uoen to everu eouthom strte this Ginrser. I have 
watched the resooot they have for tholr officers, eonethlng we have 
been lax on in the pant. 3ut 1 hone that In t'.ie future that we cen 
respeot the ofi'lces these nen hol-i. I have been to lax In the past, 
but In the future you will find It hard to stand up to the standards 
we must have, Tr^sse officers t'-uit have bean ncned will bo respected and 
their orders ccrrled out. If yoa wish to rcisla In the U;."irij3 KLAiJ OF 
A«2aiC\, i:: the BSALM of FLOniDA, Anyone that doeca»t feel that he 
oan coma up to those standards, we; 11 be elad to accept his raslgnatloiu 

do State of Florida as a whole Is groans (III ALL PABT3) and 
wa shall go forward. 

I0UE13 

FOB GOD Ara COUNTHT 

DOH COTSMUa 




3788 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



Charles Riddi.ehoover Exhibit No. 7 

(Pages from address book.) 



Anderson, Charles 
Margate, Florida 

Annsdoerf, H. E. 
4440 N. W. 33 Avenue 

Abernathy, Olen 

1444 N. E. 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Abernathy, Clay 

1445 N. W. Third Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Anderson, Arthur M. 
1344 N. E. 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Austra, George 

4263 Raverswood Road 

Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #114 

Brother #117 

Brother #120 

(Home) JA 4-5396 (Work) JA 3-6494 

Brother #132 

(Home) JA 3-2755 (Work) ^A 3-892$ 

Brother #165 

Brother #187 
(Home) 583-3152 



Bowman, George W. 
1444 N. W. 7 Terrace 
Fort Lauderdale 

Bowman, George 

Birminglam, 0. H. 
1438 N. E. 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Boykin, N. R. 
5262 Redwood Place 
Plantation 

Burton, William F. 
224 N. E. 30 Street 
Fort Lauderdale 

Birmingham, Gerald A. 
1300 N. E. 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Bland, James C. 
209 N. E. 5 Street 
Pompano Beach 

Bowie, John V. 

3121 N. W. 46 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Brown, Ralph T. 
3141 S. W. 22 Street 
Fort Lauderdale 

Barnhill, James F. 
3181 N. E. 12 Avenue 
Pompano 



(Home) 523-2993 

Brother #112 

(Home) JA 39361 (Work) 583-0930 

Brother #134 

(Home) 583-4595 (Work) JA 3-5007 

Brother #148 

(Home) 566-0938 (Work) 523-0874 

JA 4-5485 

942-6722 

581-8009 

LU 1-2952 

972-0911 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3789 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



Clark, John 

5787 Winfield Blvd. 

Margate, Florida 

Conn, George R. , Si. 

Cleatwood, Eric 

2231 S. W. 42 Terrace 

Fort Lauderdale 

Carroll, Robert G. 
3621 N. E. 10th Avenue 

Chapman, James W. 
1420 N. W. 41 Court 
Fort Lauderdale 

Carroll, Dick 

1506 N. E. 43 Street 

Pompano 

Gulp, James LeRoy 
1506 S. W. 4 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Carlstroft, Howard W. 
3205 N. W. -Third Street 
Fort Lauderdale 



972-6391 

Brother #125 

Brother #146 

(Home) 587-3811 

Brother #169 
(Home) LO-6 6334 

Brother #180 

(Home) 565-3253 

Brother #184 

(Home) 941-2901 

Brother 191 

(Home) JA 2-6482 

581-2177 



Dures, Glen 

515 N. W. 29 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Delegal, Charles F. 
4098 North Dixie Highway 
0. P. 

Dwyer, Chuck 

3350 S. W. 46 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Denker, Ernest J. 
660 S. W. 55 Avenue 
Pompano 

Daniel, David R 
N. W. Rock Island 
Road, 0. P. 

Downey, Phillip C. 
811 N. W. 68 '^Terrace 
West Hollywood 

Dan 



Brother #115 
(Home) 583-1186 
Brother #131 
(Home) 566-0909 
Brother #153 

Brother #158 

(Home) 972-1251 (Work) 525-5512 

Brother #173 

(Home) LU 3-4778 

LU 9-3689 

JA 2-3227 - 45 minutes 



3790 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 
E 



Elmore, Harry L. 
4330 N. W. 34 Court 
Lauderdale Lakes 

Edwards, James W. 
518 N. W. 42 Street 
Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #159 
(Home) 581-4915 
Brother #170 
566-6792 



Fisher, Don 

Freeman, Paul A. 
1013 N. W. 11 Court 
Fort Lauderdale 

Fletcher, Gilbert (Dick) 
1551 N. E. 59 Place 
Fort Lauderdale 

F lynn , Leon 

1629 N. W. 15 Place 

Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #124 

Brother #133 

(Home) 523-5024 (Work) 523-7321 

Brother #136 

Daly Wrecker (Work) 523-1861 

Brother #183 

(Home) JA 3-8765 



Oilman, H. L. 

30 S. E. 25 Street 

Gettinger, John H. 
1500 N W 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Geiger, Ellis R. 
4240 N. W. 10 Terrace 
Fort Lauderdale 

Grantham, Jack H. 

18710 N W 44 Court 

Works/ Hollywood Ford (Mechanic) 

Gaines, Hershal 
6052 Pliinkett Street 
West Hollywood 

Greer, Russell S. 
931 N. W. 12 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Gomillion, Earl 

2200 S. W. 46 Terrace 

Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #105 
(Home) 522-8058 

Brother #138 

(Home) 524-6488 (Work) 523-1236 

Brother #182 

(Home) 564-5128 

Brother #190 

(Work) 922-6721 

Brother #194 

(Home) YU - 3 2698 

JA 4-2158 

583-7384 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3791 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 
H 



Horton, Bobby 

612 S. W. 16 Street 

Fort Lauderdale 

Howell, Charles 
6050 Pluckett Street 
West Hollyvood 

Heflin, Herman E. 
1239 N. W. 1 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Holton, L. R. 
1012 West Organe Street 
Lake City, Florida 

Hardway, Robert E. 
1201 N. W. 18 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

Holmes, Leo 
1310 Miami Road 
Fort Lauderdale 

Harrelson, J. E. 
1307 S. W. 24 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #181 
525-3961 
Brother #186 
(Home) YU 3-2698 

523-9342 

752-5638 
Brother #119 

Brother #123 

Brother #155 



Johnson, Hoke L. 
1351 RD. 84 

Jones, F. George 
1004 S. E. 6 Court 
Fort Lauderdale 

James, Robert 

810 N. E. 58 Court 

Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #123, 
JA 2-1388 

Brother #140 

(Home) 523-9906 

933-5673 



3792 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 
K 



Karl 

Kemp, John W. 

1800 S. W. 69 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Kidd, Fred R. 

1512 N. W. 6 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Knight, Don 

5464 N. W. 5 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Kinnucan, W. H. 
2880 N. E. 29 Street 
Fort Lauderdale 

Kraft, Robert W 

4421 S. W. 73 Terrace 

Davie, Florida 



229-7976 
Brother #178 

Brother #152 
(Home) 524-5832 
Brother #104 
(Home) 565-5954 



Lamme, Gordon L. 
818 N. W. 26 Street 
Fort Lauderdale 

Lebo , B immy 

3820 N. W. 8 Court 

Lee, Lawrence 
5717 Seth Drive 
Margate 

Law, Willard 

1097 N. E. 40 Court 

. Park 

Lunsford, Grady E. 
1146 N. W. 6 Avenue 
Fort Lauderdale 

LeClair, Audre 
700 S. W. 2 Court 
Fort Lauderdale 

Lane, John H. 

2427 N. E. 7 Avenue 

Fort Lauderdale 

Lane, Clarence T. 
620 N. W. 33 Terrace 
Fort Lauderdale 

Lawrence, L. R. 
1408 S. E. 2 Court 
Fort Lauderdale 



Brother #128 

(Home) 566-8193 

Brother #109 
583-6334 

Brother #144 

(Home) 972-0214 

Brother #160 

(Home) 564-1398 

Brother #166 

(Home) 525-1187 

Brother=#185 

(Home) 522-5380 

LO 4-8884 

587-0299 

JA 2-2753 



2^ 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



3793 



I 7 

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3794 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



NAME • ADDRESS • ZIP CODE 



PHONE 



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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



3795 



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NAME • ADDRESS • ZIP CODE 



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3796 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 




NAME • ADDRESS • ZIP CODE 



PHONE 



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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



3797 



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3798 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 7 — Continued 



NAME • ADDR • ZIP CODE 






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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3799 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 8 

Th« following Hat vaa Uik«n froa •pplleatlont found 
in th« po*s«aslon of CHARLES BAKER RIDDLEHOOVER vh«n h« wa« arrested on* 
October 29, 196S: 



JAtCS R. HAU. - Box ^91, UaatllU, Florida. Th« aubjact ia cuyloyad by 
the City of DaatllU. Ha liata hia age aa 32, hla vaight aa 170 pounda, 
and his height aa 9* 10%". 

W. F. ROUWPTRn: - Box #262, naatilla, Florida. The aubjact' a application 
vaa dated 6/i2/65, and ha liata hla age aa 52 yaara, hla viight aa 200 
pounda and is height aa 6*. 

FRANKLIN WIUBY • Route #1, Box 273-1, UmatllU, Florida. The aubjact'a 
application ia datad 6/12/65. The aubject la eo^loyed by Howard Henry 
Mason Constriiction, and lists his age as 28 years, hla weight aa 245 pounda, 
and his height aa 6* 1". 

KKNNARD C. WIILIAHB - Box M83, Umatilla, Florida. The aubject is etaployed 
by Cape Kennedy and liat^ hla age aa 53 yeara, hia wAtght aa 190 pounda, 
and his height aa 5' 9". 

JAMES F. SWELL —Box #341, Unatllla. Florida. The aubjeet'a application 

ia dated 6/12/65. He la employed by Harold Oakley Fruit Company, liata his . 

age aa 36 yeara, hia weight aa 195 potinda, and hia height aa 5' 9Y. 

MERRELL A. AUJ^OW - Route #1, Box 290-0, ttaatllla. Florida. The aubject 

la employed by Allison Brotiiera Grove Service, and liata his aga aa 29 years, 

hia weight as 180 pounda, and hia height aa 5' 9". 

RAY W. BRYApr • Box #142. Umatilla, Florida. The aubject' a application is 
dated 6/12/65. The aubject liata his employer aa the Golden Gem Growers, 
and his age as 22 years, his weight as 175 pounds, and his height as 5' 

S. C. BRYAMT > Post Office Box #1A2. Umatilla, Florida. The subject's 
application Is dated 6/12/65. He is enployed by Lake County, and lists his 
age as 60 years, his weight as 195 pounds, and la height aa 5* 7". 

JAMES L. KRAFT QOUMrT) • 4421 S. W. 73 Terrace. The subject's application 
Is dated August 1, 1965. He is enployed by Steel Fab, 721 M. E. 44th 
Place. The subject lists his age as 24 years, his weight aa 110 pounda, 
and his height as 5' 10". 

CECIL HOU - 4487 8. W. 67 Terrace, Davie, Florida. The subject's 
application la dated August 1, 1965. He Is aaployed by Industrial Pump, 
261 S. W. 12th Avenue, Pompano, Florida. He lists his age as 30 years, 
his weight as 175 pounds, and his height as 5' 7". 

KDIG SOL BRAMHAM (BRAHKAM) - 4421 S. W. 73 Terrace, Fort Uuderdala, 
Florida. The subject's application is dated August I, 1965. He is 
employed by CECIL HOLT (see above). He lists his age as 30 years, his 
weight as 175 pounds, and his height as 5* 7*'. 

R. B. MA8SET • 4240 S. W. 64 Avenue. The subject's application is dated 
September 13, 1965. The subject states he is self-employed and gives the 
above address for both business and residence. He is 41 years of age, 
weights 175 pounds, and is 5' 11" in height. 

f ik E. JSPKBIBIWS - 1661 Limiood Drive. The subject's application is dated 
eptember 7, 1965. He states that he is a boat operator employed by 
Joe Cramel. He lists his ai;e as 56 years, his weight as 210 pounds, and 
hia height aa 6' 2V'. 



3800 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Charles Riddlehoover Exhibit No. 8 — Continued 



CARL J. VINMPK? - 6931 S. W. 57th Str««t. The subject llgts his 
occupation «s • 1 ' 
Be lists his age 
5' 8". 



- 6931 S. W. 57th Street. The subject lists his 
livestock inspector for the Florida Department of Agriculture. 
I as 32 years, his weight as 170 pounds, and his height aa 



(The following applications wave labeled "8-7«'65) 
(Clearwater ) 

KENNETH TUQTf - 906 M. Belcher Road. The subject's application Is dated 
August 6, 1965. The subject lists his eii|>Io/:nent as being self employed 
at 1612 Hercules. He lists his age as 45 years, his weight as 300 pounds, 
and his height as 5' 10%". 

CHESTER W. sum - 4999 % Avenue, North Pinellas Park. The subject's 
application is dated Auguat 7, 1965. He lists his occupation as President 
of 8. & S. Earthnovers, Inc. , P. 0. #774. PlnelUa Park, Florida. He 
lists his age as 32 years, his weight as 192 pounds, and his height as S' 
lOYt 

tOIKRT R. SDICUIK * 1730 tMiahem Orlwa. Hm aukjaet** application la 
d«te4 Auguat 77 mS. He states th«t he is aayloyed by Dick Mills 
Haatlas and Air Conditioniag Company. 702 Court Street. Clearwater. PUrida. 
Re lists hia age aa 60 years, his weight aa ISS pounds, and his height aa 
5' 9". 

JfOt HALEY (AUT) • 1318 Sunset Place Road. The aubject's application 
ia dated Auguat 7, 1961. He lists his occupation as a switchman for 
the General Telepbons Company. Re is 29 years of age, weights 158 pounds, 
wd is S* r in hai^t. 

RAYMOWD F. H0CHK8 — 5600 31 Street, So. St. Pete. The sx^Jaet's 
application ia dated August 7, 1965. He lists hia occupation aa loan 
manager and field representative of the Univiaal Lean Coopaay, lllO Castral 
Avanue, St. Fete. Ba liats his age aa 24 years, hia weight mm 140 pouada, 
and hia hal^t aa S' 9". 

l^kRRT R, COOPg^ - 2601 60 Avenue, Ko. St. Pete, Florida. The aubjact*s 
application is dated Auguat 7. 1965. He lists his occupation aa parking 
and landscaping contractor, 4399 62 Avenue, Ho. St. Pete, Florida. Ha 
ia self-eioployed. 

AMPREW RQDiy. JR . - P- 0. Box #7. The subject's application is dated 
Auguat 7, 1965. He lists his occupation as student at die Clearwater 
Junior Collage, and hia age as 19 years, his weight as 215 pounds, and 
his height aa 5' 9". 

JOSEPH A. PATTEy III - 1741 Loirf>ardy , Clearwater. The aubject's 
application is dated July 28, 1965. Re lists his occupation as a sales 
man for Croolaer Building Supply Company. He is 30 years of age, weights 
213 pounds, and hia 6' 2" in height. 

TOM R. McCOCT - 442-S76S. The subject lists his occupation as a roofing 
contractor, self employed. 442-6744. He Is 33 years of age, weights 273 
pounds, and is 6' 3" in height. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3801 

Mr. Weltner. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Stoner. 

Mr. Stoner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask at this time whether 
my client, Mr. William Sterling Rosecrans, Jr., who is now^ in the 
United States penitentiary at Terre Haute, Indiana, if he will be 
called at this time as a witness since I am his attorney? 

Mr. Weltnee. The committee has no present plans to call your 
client, Mr. Stoner. He is not under subpena. There are no present 
plans to call him. Of course, that may change, but it would require 
further action on the part of the committee. There is no present plan 
to call him, Mr. Stoner. 

The committee will now stand in recess until 10 :30 tomorrow morn- 
ing to meet at this same place. 

Subconunittee members present at time of recess: Representatives 
Welter and Buchanan.) 

(Wliereupon, at 3 :20 p.m., Wednesday, February 23, 1966, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene Thursday, February 24, 1966.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1966 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as 
reconstituted for the February 24 hearing, met, pursuant to recess, at 
10 :30 a.m., in the Caucus Eoom, Cannon House Office Building, Wash- 
ington, D.C, Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, 
chairman ; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia ; and John H. Buchanan, 
Jr^ of Alabama. ) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Bu- 
chanan. 

Committee members also present : John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, 
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

For the record, the Chair would like to state that the subcommittee 
appointed to investigate the Ku Klux Klan, named heretofore by the 
chairman, has a quorum present, consisting of Mr. Buchanan and 
myself, with Mr. Ashbrook of the full committee also present. 

(The ap]3ointment of the subcommittee follows :) 

February 17, 1966. 
To: Mr. Francis J. MoNamara 
Director, Committee on Tin-American Activities 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
sisting of Honorable Joe R. Pool, as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner 
and Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hearings in 
Washington, D.C. on Thursday, February 24, 1966, as contemplated by the reso- 
lution adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing 
hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in 
the United States. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 17th day of February, 1966. 

/si/ Edwin E. Willis, 
Edwin E. Willis, 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

3803 



3804 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell, call your next witness. 

Mr. Stoner. Excuse me, Your Honor. I have bursitis in my right 
shoulder this morning. 

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this 
morning will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Stoner. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JESSE BENJAMIN STONER 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, will you state your full name for the 
record, please? 

Mr. Stoner. Jesse Benjamin Stoner, S-t-o-n-e-r. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Stoner. No, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Do you desire counsel ? 

Mr. Stoner. No, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Have you received a copy, and are you familiar with 
the contents, of the opening statement of Chairman Willis delivered 
in October 1965 ? 

Mr. Stoner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that 
to do so might tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by 
invoking all of my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 
8th, 9th, 10th, and 14tli amendments to the Constitution of the United 
States of America. 

Mr, Appell. Mr. Stoner, would you give the committee a resume of 
your educational background ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, would you give us a brief resume of your 
employment background ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. In 1952, were you admitted to the practice of the 
law by the Superior Court, Fulton County, Georgia? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, are you appearing here today in ac- 
cordance with a subpena served upon you on February 11, 1966, at 
the United States marshals' office in Atlanta, Georgia ? 

Mr. Stoner. To the best of my memory and recollection, that is 
correct, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, the subpena served upon you contained an 
attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the 
terms of the subpena you were commanded to bring with you and 
to produce documents described in paragraph 1 : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to 
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Christian 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. in your possession, custody or control, or 
maintained by you or available to you as present or former official of the Chris- 
tian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3805 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you 
to produce the documents called for. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce 
the documents called for by this attachment to the subpena do not 
legally justify your refusal, and those reasons are rejected. 

I order and direct you to produce these docmnents called for by 
the subpena pursuant to paragraph 1 of the subpena and to produce 
these documents called for therein in the representative capacity 
stated in the subpena. 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, we now give you an opportunity at this 
time to explain whether or not there is any reason which makes it 
impossible for you to produce the records called for in paragraph 1. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

I further resiDectfully refuse on the ground that to do so w^ould con- 
stitute a waiver of my right to use and to invoke my constitutional 
rights and privileges on further questions. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is rejected by the committee, and I order 
and direct you to produce these documents called for by the inter- 
rogator and pursuant to the subpena, paragraph 1, and to produce 
these documents called for therein in the representative capacity 
stated in the subpena. 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse on all of the grounds just stated- 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : 

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- 
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity 
as present or former official of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Inc., 
which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require 
to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being 
in your possession, custody or control. 

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you 
to produce the docimients called for. 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse on all of the grounds previously 
stated and also on the ground that to do so would waive my right 
to invoke my privileges and rights under the Bill of Rights and the 
14th amendment to following questions along the same subject. 

Mr. Pool. You are not pleading the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Stoner. Yes, Your Honor, I have stated that previously. I am 
pleading the 5th and the 4th and, to be specific, if it pleases the chair- 
man, I refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to incriminate 
me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and privileges under 
the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the Con- 



3806 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

stitution of the United States of America, and I understood you on 
Monday you preferred for witnesses to state on f ollowup questions 

Mr. Pool. That is correct, but when you start particularizing an 
amendment you had better put in the fifth amendment, also. If you 
want to say "I refuse on the grounds previously stated," that is all 
right, but if you add the 14th amendment like you did awhile ago you 
had better add the 5th amendment. 

In this particular case you do not have legal right, according to the 
committee, and I order and direct you to produce these documents 
called for in the subpena and at the request of the interrogator in the 
representative capacity stated in the subpena. 

Mr. Stoner. So there will be no misunderstanding in regard to all 
of the subpena duces tecum, it was my intention on request and orders 
to produce and on all requests and orders to produce on those to fol- 
low, to refuse on the grounds that to do so might tend to incriminate 
me and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights and privileges under 
the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the Con- 
stitution of the United States and, further, on the ground that to do 
so would constitute a waiver of my right to invoke my rights and 
privileges under the Bill of Eights and the 14th amendment on ques- 
tions to follow. 

Mr. Pool. Your reasons are rejected. 

(At this point Representative Weltner entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, in 1942, at the age of 18 or 19, did you 
become a kleagle or organizer of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in 
Chattanooga, Tennessee ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 
and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of 
America. I further respectfully refuse on the ground that to do so 
would constitute a waiver of my right to use and to invoke my con- 
stitutional rights and privileges on further questions. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, with the abandonment of the Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan, did you become an organizer of the Associated 
Klans of America ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Is that all right, sir? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Appell. In 1945, did you create an organization known as the 
Stoner Anti- Jewish Party ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Did you later change the name of that organization 
to the Christian Anti- Jewish Party ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr, Appell. Mr. Stoner, in January of 1950, were you expelled 
from Chattanooga Klavern No. 317 of the Associated Klans of Amer- 
ica for making a motion at a Klavern meeting to throw all Jews out 
of Chattanooga, Tennessee? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3807 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse to answer on all of the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, in 1959, did you create an organization 
known as the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, I hand you an application for a post office 
box in the name of the Christian Anti-Jewish Party, the application 
stating the name of the applicant to be J. B. Stoner. 

I hand you this application and ask you if it is your signature that 
appears on the copy of the document ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 1" appears on p. 
3808.) 

Mr. Appell. When you moved your seat of operation to Atlanta, 
Georgia, and formed the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
did you use this same post office box as the official mailing address of 
the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell, Mr. Stoner, was Edward Fields associated with you 
in the Christian Anti- Jewish Party and the Christian Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. This application for a post office box that I showed 
you, Mr. Stoner, lists in what appears to be the same handwriting as 
your signature, references Edward Fields, Post Office Box 676, At- 
lanta, and there is a response from Mr, Fields to the Post Office De- 
partment saying: "Yes, I know J. B. Stoner to be responsible and 
trustworthy," 

Due to the fact that you have reviewed the document, is that which 
I have stated to you factual ? 

Mr. Stoner, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated, 

Mr. Appell. Mr, Stoner, what knowledge do you possess of the mak- 
ing of detonating devices, using as a base dynamite ? 

Mr, Stoner, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated, 

Mr, Appell, Mr, Stoner, on September 15, 1963, were you in Birm- 
ingham, Alabama? 

Mr, Stoner, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated, 

Mr, Appell, Mr, Stoner, on September 15, 1963, there was a detona- 
tion of an explosive device which damaged the 16th Street Baptist 
Church in Birmingham, Alabama, damaging the church and killing 
four young Negro parishioners. 

Do you possess any firsthand knowledge of either the planning, the 
making of the explosive device, or the identity of the individuals 
involved in planning the explosive device on the 16th Street Baptist 
Church property? 

Mr, Stoner, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 



3808 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 1 

^ . . ' • - ■ - . .i8si--.a Box No „ 

"t^l?^' ■ APPLICATION F0O0ST-CFFIC£ BOX -\ -'" 

yj^he under»igne<l hereby applies for the use of a box in the post ofilce at ..G.<^fiT:i.<r:^fsr^7:^.Y^.7^- ) 

^:^C£r:?^j.-:^dL^ „ , -. and agree* ^ 

to comply wttfi-lh'e postal regulation* and rules relative to the renting and use of post-office boxes. 

If the box is rented for a corporation, the applicant should write on the lines below the name of the 
corporation; if for a firm, the name of the firm and the full name of each of its members ■whose mail is ^^ 
to be pbced in the box. ^— __,, . • ^ /< y^ ^~Z/~. ; ^ 






Signature of applicant ...r^L.<f^i,J^,^^^^^^?^j:^.ri^^.!(^?i^^ 



Character of business .0^. r^fc?^^:rL-C.<-zir<rfC<^-.r..,..-^??j-^^<ST — 

Business address . 



Residence address 2S^3^Z^^C^t^^^^^.^^^^^ 

:5^.^.:.4.::.-:u. 



f?^T07^^^ 



vKiaric&TXON OP refe;:. :cE or applicant for eox 

- •"< ' C'-^ UNITED STATES POST OFFICE 

•■•-■-. Vi,t^-.i. , y Q^ ci- «_ ■ <'S 

C^]:^€,^^Zfy.Jl_S^^:^ 



An application iaij!^ post-office box ta/Eaen hied at ttis o(£ice, with your name as releVence, by — 
Name of applicant- J!^-^,.j^ ^^^s^.^i i. ... '.r.^l'.l.: — fll. — :x^ 

Character of busines/T... y;<.xrlfk-<^L.C-~. . - ' ,: -1' Llr.r.T.:':!.;.'. /....:..,.; 

Business addiess „. ^'l -- ..'...:.--. — »_ .^,...._- 

Residonco address^.^.i.3^ ^.„l,^^dh<.:::!-i!^...'.-- — > ■-...:.' .'..^...'-.^l.^..'.'. _ 

Will you kindly advise tki* office if, in your judgment, the applicant is responsible and trustworthy? 



REPLY; 



Poetn^oster. 



S14S-J' U. I. eOVHKKCKI MmriNt ettizz 



..*i^ 

CStgaatur* oi rctetaoo*} 19 — i$i4S-; 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3809 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, at 2 :31 a.m. on September 25, a small ex- 
plosion took place in a Negro residential section of Birmingham. 

In response to an alarm issued by citizens, over 50 law enforcement 
officers responded and attempted to locate the site of the detonation. 
They failed to find where the device was exploded; and 15 or 13 
minutes after the original explosion, a shrapnel bomb was exploded in 
the same location, this shrapnel bomb believed to have been made by 
placing dynamite, nails, nuts and bolts, and other scrap metal into a 
can and detonating it. 

If the law enforcement officers had found the first explosion, many 
would have been injured or killed. Law enforcement officers, whom the 
committee has interviewed, are convinced that these two explosions 
were set to injure FBI agents and other law enforcement personnel 
in retaliation for their vigorous investigation of the 16th Street Bap- 
tist Church bombing, including the questioning of many Klan suspects. 

Now, Mr. Stoner, do you possess any knowledge of the planning, 
the making of the shrapnel bomb, or the identity of individuals in- 
volved in planning the two detonating explosive devices which went 
off on September 25, 1963 ? 

Mr. Stoner. So as to make my grounds for refusal to answer clear, 
if I may at this time, I would like to restate what I have already said. 

I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might tend to incrimi- 
nate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of my rights and 
privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amend- 
ments to the Constitution of the United States of America. I further 
respectfully refuse on the ground that to do so would constitute a 
waiver of my right to use and to invoke my constitutional rights and 
privileges on further questions. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privilege 
and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the 
committee the results of an investigation as it pertains to Mr. Stoner. 

Mr. Pool. And you are under oath ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir; and these are the results of our investigation, 
and by no means complete. 

Jesse Benjamin Stoner was born April 13, 1924, in Walker County, 
Georgia. He was educated at the McCallie School and Chattanooga 
High School, Chattanooga, Tennessee, and the Atlanta Law School. 

He was admitted to practice law before the Fulton County Superior 
Court on February 2, 1952. 

In 1942, Stoner became a kleagle or organizer for Tennessee for the 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan by Imperial Wizard James Colescott. 
His address was 204 Temple Court Building, Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

With the disbanding of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, he 
became associated with the Associated Klans of America. 

In 1944, while a Klan official, he filed a petition with the U.S. House 
of Representatives urging the Houses to pass a resolution recognizing 
the fact that "the Jews are the children of the devil, and that, conse- 
quently, they constitute a grave menace to the United States of 
America." 

In 1945 Stoner formed the Anti-Jewish Party. In 1952 he 
joined with Edward R. Fields in forming the Christian Anti- Jew- 
ish Party and gave to himself the title of arch leader. 



3810 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

In July 194:6, the Atlanta Constitution printed an interview with 
Stoner by Jim Furniss. This article describes Stoner as thinking 
Hitler was too moderate and the article quoted Mr. Stoner as stating 
that he and his men planned to be more modern about it, using gas, 
electric chairs, shooting, hanging, and "whatever way seems most 
appropriate" in eliminating all Semitic people except Christian Jews. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-A." See p. 3820.) 

Stoner, a member of the Chattanooga Klavern No. 317 of the Asso- 
ciated Klans of America, was expelled in January 1950 for making 
a motion at a Klan meeting to throw all Jews out of Chattanooga, 
Tennessee. 

In July 1959, Stoner rented Post Office Box 45 in Louisville, Ken- 
tucky, for the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. He is known 
to have advised that he started the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan with people who were in bad financial condition. However, 
he felt that after the organization's activities became known it would 
attract a higher class of individual. 

Stoner gave himself the title of Imperial Wizard and arch leader 
of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

In May of 1960, the first issue of the Klan publication entitled Klan 
Bulletin^ an official publication of the Christian Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan appeared. The June 1960 issue disclosed that the address 
of the Christian Knights was Post Office Box 48, Atlanta, Georgia. 
This post office box was rented in 1952 by J. B. Stoner in the name 
of the Christian Anti-Jewish Party. 

In October 1959, Stoner attacked the then larp-as<^ Klan orfranization, 
the U.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated, as being 
Jew dominated and controlled by the Anti-Defamation League of 
B'nai B'rith. 

On October 24, 1959, Eldon Edwards, the Imperial Wizard of the 
U.S. Klans, replied to Stoner's attack by stating that he possessed 
evidence that the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan advocates 
violence. 

While a leader of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, 
Stoner became affiliated with the National States Rights Party. In 
August 1959, Stoner and Edward R. Fields, an associate with Stoner 
in the Christian Anti-Jewish Party, the Christian Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan, and the National States Rights Party, decided to hold 
rallies in protesting the contemplated integration of the Orchard Villa 
Elementary School in Miami, Florida. Stoner spoke at rallies held in 
Jacksonville on August 29 and West Palm Beach on September 5, 1959. 

Stoner planned methods for preventing white parents from sending 
their children to the Orchard Villa Elementary School. 

In July 1963, Stoner spoke at a rally of the National States Rights 
Party outside Birmingham, Alabama. In the course of his speech he 
told the audience how to make a bomb by using a candle to regulate 
the amount of time which would elapse, depending on the length of the 
candle, from the time the candle was lit till the bomb exploded. In giv- 
ing these instructions Stoner advised his listeners that the methods that 
he described were taken from instructions given by FBI to one of its 
plants within the Klan organizations in order to bring discredit to tlie 
Klan. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3811 

Stoner was known to be in Birmingham, Alabama, immediately 
prior to, and including, September 15, 1963. He was known to be in 
Birmingham in March and April of 1965, when a series of bombs 
were uncovered in that city. 

Stoner was in and out of Jacksonville, Florida, between January 19, 
1963, and November 9, 1963, participating in a series of Klan rallies 
along with Connie Lynch, Gene Fallaw, and Don Cothran. This 
group advocated shooting of Negroes and violent night-riding. 

At a rally on November 9, 1963, at Jacksonville, Stoner, during a 
speech in which he attacked Barry Goldwater, Nelson Rockefeller, 
and President Kennedy, characterized the FBI as Jew-Communist 
stooges. He stated that the Jews and Negroes are Communists and the 
FBI is led and controlled by Communists. 

On May 2, 1964, Stoner spoke at a United Florida Ku Klux Klan 
rally on U.S. Highway 17 at Cedar Bay Road in Jacksonville, Florida. 
He stated the civil rights legislation was sponsored by Communists, 
that FBI agents were Communist secret police, and that the Director 
of the FBI was following a policy set down by the Communist Party. 
He described President Johnson as being no better than Khrushchev. 

In June 1964, Stoner was in St. Augustine, Florida, directing and 
leading Connie Lynch, Holstead "Hoss" Manucy, and members of the 
Klan largely from St. Augustine and Jacksonville, Florida, Klaverns 
of the United Florida Ku'KIux Klan. The Legislative Investigation 
Committee of the Florida Legislature in a report entitled "Racial and 
Civil Disorders in St. Augustine" made repeated references to the 
activities of J. B. Stoner in St. Augustine, Florida. (Eunice Fallaw 
Exhibit No. 1.) 

In 1965, Stoner's principal areas of activities had been in Ohio, Ala- 
bama, Florida, and Louisiana, particularly in Bogalusa in July 1965. 
Stoner's theme during speeches made has been primarily against the 
FBI and the Negroes. 

In Jacksonville, Florida, on May 2, 1965, he described J. Edgar 
Hoover as a homosexual, Jew-dominated Communist. 

At Bogalusa [according to a July 11, 19^6, New York Times article], 
he stated : 

The nigger is not a human being. He is somewhere between the white man 
and the ape. We don't believe in tolerance. We don't believe in getting along 
with our enemy, and the nigger is our enemy. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-B." See p. 3821.) 
At Anniston, Alabama, he shared the platform on August 31, 1965, 
with Connie Lynch whom he shared the platform with many times at 
other rallies located in Florida and other Southern cities. 

Lynch [as reported in the Louisville, Ky., Courier- Journal, Decem- 
ber 3, 1965] told the crowd— 

if it takes killing to get the niggers out of the white man's streets and to protect 
our constitutional rights, I say yes — kill them. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-C." See p. 3822.) 
This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Stoner possesses 
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this 
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial 
legislation. 



3812 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Stoner, you have heard the sworn statement of the 
committee's investigator. 

You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state- 
ment, to confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or to 
explain any part of that statement. 

In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com- 
mittee may deem pertinent to this inquiry. Do you have any 
statement ? 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse to answer on all of the grounds 
previously stated and especially emphasize the part of the previously 
stated reasons for not answering wherein, if I answered this question, 
1 would be waiving my right to invoke my constitutional rights and 
privileges in replying to further questions. 

Mr. Pool. And you are invoking the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Stoner. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Pool. I must inform you, absent your rebuttal or other facts 
that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee will 
rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. 

If you have no further statement, continue, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, the committee's information is that in 
November of 1964 you were elected to the position of vice chairman of 
the National States Rights Party at a convention held in Mobile, 
Alabama. 

Is that information factual, sir ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by invoking all of 
my rights and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 
14 amendments to the Constitution of the United States of 
America. 

I further respectfully refuse on the ground that to do so would con- 
stitute a waiver of my right to use and to invoke my constitutional 
rights and privileges on further questions. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, the Thunderbolt^ the official publication 
of the National States Rights Party, issue No. 74, dated February 
1966, contains a story to the effect that you had been subpenaed to 
appear before the committee. The statement says that "even though 
he is not a member of the Klan," Mr. Stoner is a "friend of the Klan." 

Mr. Stoner, can you explain to the committee what is meant by your 
being a friend of the Klan ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 3" appears on p. 
3813.) 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, the article you referred to there — read the head- 
line on that. 

Mr. Appell. It says, Mr. Chairman, "Flash-Bulletin Un-American 
Rats" — R-a-t-s — "Subpoena Atty. J. B. Stoner In Giant Smear 
Campaign." 

Now, Mr. Stoner, at your rallies at Anniston, Alabama, you have 
shared the speaking platform with Kenneth Adams. I put it to you 
as a fact that Kenneth Adams was the exalted cyclops in Anniston, 
Alabama, of a Klavern of the Dixie Klans. 

I ask you to affirm or deny the fact. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3813 



Jesse Sto'ner Exhibit No. 3 

[The Thunderbolt, February 1966] 

Flash-Bulletin 

Un-American Rats Subpoena 

Atty. J.B. Stoner In Giant 

Smear Campaign 



J. B. Stoner, a leader in the 
National States Rights Parry, has 
been subpoenaed to appear before 
the un-American Committee in 
Washington, even though he is not 
a member at the Klan. Mr. Ston- 
er is a friend of the Klan and 
sometimes represents Klansmen 
In court. Obviously, the dreg 
committee has no respect for the 
Sixth Amendment part of the BUI 
of Rights which gives Klansmen 
the right to have an attorney and 
a privileged relationship between 
attorney and client. Stoner will 
uphold the Bill of Rights and the 
committee be damned. 

The committee Is operating as 
a bunch of pimps for the Jew- 
controlled, race-mixing FBI and 
plans to lie about Stoner and 
smear him with the kind of lies 
that the FBI fairies have already 
planted in magazines about him. 
The House Committee protects 
communism and has become a 
vital part of the communist- Jew- 
ish revolution l;i America. The 
illicit committee needs to be 
flushed. To hades vvrlth iti 



Is Willis An Ape? 

The Tlioriderbolt has received 
a report rha: nigger-loving rd^ln 
E. Willis, chairman of the red, 
hatchet-job un-American com- 
mittee is part ape. We call upon 
Louisiana readers who have the 
detailed facts to rush them to 
us. Since Willis is for the 
negroes and hates White people, 
he would undoubtedly not object 
to his racial ancestry being re- 
vealed since it would get him 
more negro votes at the next" 
election, Willis, the race-mix- 




i. B. STOMlOt 

Ing fanatic, is misusing a Con- 
gressional committee in an ef- 
fort to smash all opposition to 
the communist revolution in 
America. He hates all White 
people, both Catholics and Pro- 
testants, The NSRP calls upon 
its White Catholic and White 
[-■rotestant members in Louisiana 
to denounce Willis every day and 
to vote the degenerate scoundrel 
out of Congress. Remember, rush 
us all facts you have about the 
ape ancestors of Willis. 



59-222 O— 67— pt. 5- 



-22 



3814 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that he is a director in the 
Anniston area of the National States Rights Party. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Frank Rotella, an orga- 
nizer for the United Klans of America, New Jersey, is a State director 
of the National States Rights Party for the State of New Jersey. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Roy Everett Frankhouser, 
the Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America in Pennsylvania, 
operated as an organizer for the National States Rights Party. 

Mr, Stoner, I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Gene Wilson of Jackson- 
ville, Florida, is a director of the National States Rights Party for 
Duval County, Florida. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Stoner, did you write this article here that he just 
read the headline for ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Well, the "rats" are the Ku Klux Klan and the National 
States Rights Party, not Congress. This is a committee of Congress 
and appropriations for the conduct of this investigation are approved 
by Congress, so you are insulting the people of the United States by 
attacking and calling this committee names and trying to smear them. 
In so doing, you are smearing the representatives of the people of the 
United States. 

Do you have any statement to make ? 

Mr, Stoner. I have no statement to make and refuse to answer, 
respectfully refuse to answer, on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The funny thing about it is the same part of this publi- 
cation attacked Fulton Lewis and several other people, and it shows 
the irresponsibility of this type of publication, I got one at my home 
yesterday, including four petitions for the recall of our chairman, Mr, 
Willis, and that is an insult to me to get that at my home, I do not 
know anything that you are doing with it except hurting yourself, be- 
cause anybody intelligent realizes what kind of smear campaign this 
is by the Ku Klux Klan indirectly. 

That is why I asked you if you wrote these articles, 

Mr, Stoner, Are you putting a question to me ? 

Mr, Pool. I will put it to you again. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool, So you are one of the leaders of the Ku Klux Klan that 
when this hearing first started back in October, many of them said, 
"We want to tell all and we want to show the Ku Klux Klan is a great 
organization and we want the American people to know all about us," 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3815 

and you are refusing to answer questions to enlighten the American 
people. And. what you are doing is letting the American people know 
just what a bunch of dirty rats you are. 

Mr. AsHBROOK. I notice in the article to which reference has been 
made they particularly single out our chairman, who cannot be with us, 
for attack and, I might add, abuse. 

It says, and I would quote : 

Willis, the race-mixing fanatic, is misusing a Congressional committee in an 
effort to smash all opposition to the communist revolution in America. He hates 
all White people, both Catholics and Protestants. * * * 

Mr. Willis happens to be a Catholic and, in the first place, he does 
not hate anyone and he particularly would not hate Catholics. 

This is an effort to appeal to the very worst of people. Would you 
care to comment about this general request that you have sent to people 
who read this spurious document to — "rush us all facts you have about 
the ape ancestors of Willis." 

Mr. Stoner. Mr. Ashbrook, I respectfully refuse to answer on all 
of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Buchanan. 

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Stoner, in addition to the obviously false and 
slanderous statements which have been mentioned here this morning, 
this Thunderbolt newspaper rather consistently makes slanderous 
statements about various people. The other day, we read what was 
said about the FBI and another Member of Congress. You called the 
members of this subcommittee pro-Communist and anti-Constitution 
and dangerous enemies to America. You singled out individuals like 
our chairman and this member for slanderous attack. 

How is it that you as an attorney, knowing full well the law cover- 
ing libel and slander, can permit this newspaper, with which we must 
assume you are associated, to print the opposite of the truth, as the 
truth, as regularly as is the case with this publication ? 

It seems to me that the regular production of slander and of vicious 
slander like this is just a little bit dangerous. Don't you think so? 

Mr. Stoner. Mr. Buchanan, since you are asking me a question di- 
rected to me as an attorney, in refusing to answer on all of the pre- 
vious 

Mr. Buchanan. I am not talking to anybody else's attorney, but I 
am talking to you as an individual and as connected with this or- 
ganization. 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds that 
to do so would tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse to answer by 
invoking all of my rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and I especially em- 
phasize the 6th amendment to the Constitution of the United States 
which I now respectfully invoke, and the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th 
amendments; and also respectfully refuse to answer on the grounds 
that to do so would constitute a waiver of my right to use and to in- 
voke my constitutional rights and privileges in reply to further ques- 
tions. 

Mr. Pool. I want to point out another thing. I notice on page 10 
of this publication that you have even gone so far as to get on Billy 
James Hargis. 



3816 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE IJ.S. 

"It is easy to understand why Hargis is for the Jews and Negroes 
and hates us White people * * *." I am quoting from the text, but this 
shows the mixed-up philosophy of this group. They don't know ex- 
actly who they are for, but they are gonig to jump on anybody who 
does not agree with them, and I suppose this includes violence and 
doing away with people. 

This is the most flagi-ant example of the harm the Ku Klux Klan 
and the National States Eights Party is creating in this country. 

Do you have any statement to make to that ? 

Mr. Stoner. I respectfully refuse to answer on all of the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Apfell. Mr. Stoner, with respect to your activity in Ohio, have 
you worked with Mrs. Eloise Witte of Cincinnati, Ohio ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that Mrs. Eloise Witte was 
an official of the National States Rights Party in the State of Ohio. 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

(At this point Mr. Ashbrook left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Appell. You were present in the hearing room the other day 
when Mr. Richard Hanna testified. Are you acquainted with Mr. 
Richard Hanna? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all of the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 11 :15 a.m., a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee 
members present at time of recess: Representatives Pool, Weltner, 
and Buchanan. Members present when hearings resumed : Repre- 
sentatives Pool and Buchanan, of the subcommittee, and also Repre- 
sentative Ashbrook.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, in September of 1965, the committee sub- 
penaed before it one Robert Pittman Gentry. Mr. Gentry advised 
the staff that his attorney was Mr. Howell Washington of Murfrees- 
boro, Tennessee, and that he had also obtained legal advice in Wash- 
ing'ton, D.C. According to the time stamp — September 28, 1965 — the 
Clerk of the House received a petition, which reads as follows : 

PETITION TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

UNITED STATES CONGRESS 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Re : The Investigation by the House Comm. Un-American Activities of the Ku 

Klux Klan and my client, Mr. Robert Gentry. 
Gentlemen : 

Today, September 27, 1965, my client and friend, Mr. Robert Gentry testified 
before the House Un-American Activities Committee as a result of a subpoena 
having been served upon him. 

Upon my legal advice, Mr. Robert Gentry invoked the Fifth Amendment to 
the Constitution when being questioned. As a result of his exercising said 
Constitutional right, Chairman Willis and Committee Investigator Ray 
McConn 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3817 

who is an investigator with the committee although his real name is 
McConnon — 

threatened him with contempt, thereby violating his Constitutional rights. In 
an effort to bulldoze Mr. Gentry, Chairman Willis and Investigator MeConn 
mentioned other cases where witnesses had been indicted for failing to answer 
questions of the Committee, failing to point out to Mr. Gentry that the Fifth 
Amendment was not invoked in the other cases. 

Mr. Gentry will continue to use the Fifth Amendment because the purpose of 
the Committee is to obviously try to get him to incriminate himself and, under 
the Constitution and consistent Supreme Court rulings, I can guarantee Mr. 
Gentry that he will never be convicted. Nobody has ever been convicted of using 
the Fifth Amendment before a Congressional Committee and Chairman Willis 
undoubtedly knows it. The Fifth Amendment was placed in the Constitution 
by the founding fathers for the benefit of American patriots and now is the time 
for them to use it when efforts are being made to incriminate them. 

WHEREFORE, I hereby petition you to pass a resolution reprimanding Chair- 
man Willis, the House Committee on Un-American Affairs and Investigator Ray 
McConn for misusing a Congressional Committee to persecute a patriotic White 
Christian American Citizen and to order them to cease and desist. The Commit- 
tee should be upholding the Constitution instead of trying to wreck it. 

Respectfully submitted, 
/s/ J. B. Stoner 
J. B. Stoner 
Attorney at Law 
Marion Building 
P.O. Box 184 
Augusta, Georgia 
Phone 724-0752, area code 404 

(At this point Mr. Weltner entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, the full committee has voted to release 
the executive testimony of Mr. Robert Pittman Gentry taken on Sep- 
tember 29, two days after the date which the petition to the House of 
Representatives advises that he appeared before the committee. 

With the permission of the Chair, I hand you a copy of this execu- 
tive testimony. I invite your attention to review it and I ask the 
Chair for a 5-minute recess in order to permit you an opportunity 
to review it, after which I would like to ask you certain questions. 

Mr. Pool. Did you state that the full committee had ordered the 
release of this for purposes of this investigation ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. The permission is granted. You may examine it, and 
we will stand in recess for 5 minutes to see if he has enough time to 
examine it. If he needs more time, more time will be granted. 

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Members present at time 
of recess : Representatives Pool, Weltner, and Buchanan, of the sub- 
committee, and also Representative Ashbrook.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Weltner, 
and Buchanan.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, have you had enough time yet? 

Mr. Stoner. No, sir; I am on page 1011. I am scanning tlirough it 
in an effort to speed it up. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will recess a little longer so you may 
finish reviewing the transcript. 

How much more time do you need, Mr. Stoner ? 



3818 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Stoner. I am at page 1033 and it goes to 1044. 

Mr. Pool. Do you desire more time ? 

Mr. Stoner. Yes, sir; if it pleases the committee. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Stoner, have you had time to examine it? 

Mr. Stoner. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Stoner, I want to point out to you, first, that that testi- 
mony is being made public and that your petition which you sent to 
the House of Representatives was received by the Clerk of the House 
of Representatives on September 28 at 2:15 p.m., according to the 
date and time stamp that the House Clerk uses on receipt of documents 
such as this. 

Mr. Gentry testified on September 29, the next day, so you are ac- 
cusing this committee and Mr. Willis of things that had not happened 
at the time you sent your petition in, the time it was received by the 
Clerk, a day before Mr. Gentry testified. It is obviously a concocted 
plot to discredit the committee. 

There have been many false accusations in this petition and you 
know that and you signed it, and your signature is on here. You knew 
it because the man had not even testified and you know it also from 
reading the transcript which you just read. And there is not one 
iota of testimony in there or any related facts to prove your statement 
that he was denied his rights under the fifth amendment. 

Anybody can examine it. It is going to be made public to prove 
that point. Do you have any statement to make ? 

Mr. Stoner. I especially, at this time, would like to emphasize I 
refuse to answer in accordance to the sixth amendment of the Con- 
stitution of the United States which establishes a 

Mr. Pool. I have not asked you a question. 

I asked you if you had a statement to make so you do not have to 
invoke any kind of amendment. Do you have no further statement 
to make ? 

Mr. Stoner. I have no statement to make on the ground to do so 
would waive my right to invoke my constitutional rights and privi- 
leges to further questions. 

Mr. Pool. You do not want to answer or make any statement: is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Stoner. That is correct, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, did you note from a review of this tran- 
script that it was reported by the Alderson Reporting Company, 
whose certification on this document designates that the date of the 
hearing was Wednesday, September 29, 1965 ? 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on all the grounds — I refuse to an- 
swer especially in regard to invoking the sixth amendment of priv- 
ileged relationship between attorney and client. And I also refuse to 
answer because to do so would tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse 
to answer on the grounds of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9^\, 10th, and 
14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America. 

I further respectfully refuse on the ground that to do so would 
waive my rights to invoke my constitutional rights and privileges — 
would waive my right to invoke the constitutional rights and privi- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3819 

leges to further questions and also I emphasize the privilege of attor- 
ney and client, under which the law forbids me to talk about something 
in regard to a confidential relationship between attorney and client. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Stoner, in my opinion, the same person who wrote 
this inaccurate, incorrect, and fraudulent petition to the House of Rep- 
resentatives wrote a great deal of this stuff in this Thunderbolt here, 
in which you accuse the committee and our chairman of very many 
scurrilous and insidious things. 

I am not going to repeat some of the things you have in here, but it 
is a terrible situation when you use the press to do things like this. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stoner, did you note in your review of this testi- 
mony on page 1009 the chairman made a statement to Mr. Gentry 
which read: 

Let me tell you this further : We are after the facts. The facts are important. 
Somebody must assemble them. This subcommittee has been ordered by the full 
committee to conduct this investigation. The House of Representatives has sup- 
plied funds to conduct it. We are duty-bound to get the facts. In getting the 
facts, we don't intend to use tricks against anybody or to trick you into any 
situation that you feel might possibly involve you. We don't intend any such 
thing, if that affords you any consolation or relief. We don't intend to trick 
you. But on the other hand, people in America, generally speaking, are under a 
certain obligation to cooperate with their Government and the committees of 
Congress. 

'I understand the way you feel, but ultimately you will find that the one thing 
that you can rely on is your guarantees under the Federal Constitution. Those 
are not to be bargained away. I could not bargain it away or do anything to 
deprive you of that right. That is your ultimate protection, and you have that 
right at all times, you and any and all people who appear before this committee 
or any other committee of the Congress or any court or grand jury or petit jury, 
judge, or anything else. 

In light of that statement, Mr. Stoner, can you explain to the com- 
mittee why the Thunderbolt in its issue of October 1965, dealing with 
the petition that was filed with the House of Representatives, states : 

This committee is being used to pry into the secrets of the Klan so as to break up 
that organization and try and entrap said witnesses into situations where they 
will be tricked into getting themselves in trouble. * * * 

Mr. Stoner. I refuse to answer on the ground that to do so niight 
tend to incriminate me, and I also refuse by invoking all of my rights 
and privileges under the 1st, 4th, 5th, especially the 6th amendment, 
also the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the 
United States, and further respectfully refuse to answer because to do 
so would waive my right to invoke my constitutional rights and privi- 
leges in response to further questions. 

(Document marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 4" appears on p. 
3823.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask 
Mr. Stoner. 

I ask that the documents which support the statement of investiga- 
tion, the Petition to the House of Representatives, and the testimony of 
Mr. Gentry be introduced in the record at this point. 

(Documents supporting statement of investigation introduced on 
pp. 3810 and 3811 and marked "Jesse Stoner Exhibits Nos. 2-A through 
2-C" appear on pp. 3820-3822. Petition to House of Representatives 
previously marked "Robert Gentry Exhibit No. 1." (See p. 3667.) 
For executive testimony of Mr. Gentry, see pp. 3831-3852.) 



3820 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-A 

[The Atlanta Coiislilulioii, Ju\y 5. 1946] 



'NOT A CRACKPOT-A PRODIGY' 



Tennessee's Klan Kleagle Only 22. 
But Has He Mass Murder Plan? 



By JIM PTRVISS 

Near the Tennessee border, In 
the quiet of the North CeorRja 
hill country, »ii intense, pimply- 
f»ced younif man is syslpmatically 
planninR the mass miinler of hu- 
man trt'inRs on a scale which 
makes Nazi Ccrmnny scorn » ha 
ven for the oppressed by compari- 
»on. 

Although only 12 yean old. 
Jesse B. StonT. the Kleagle for 
me Ku Klux Klan m Tennessee, 
ill considered no i.iikpol by fel- 
low Klansmeii who udmirr liim as 
■ prodigy for his iiina/ing feat of 
nrginiring the hooded oidcr 
throuRhout the Slate 

Admitting he thinks Hitler was 
Ux' mmlerate, Sloiier. wilh n rjuKk 
ut;1e laugli. explains th.it he and 
his men plan to be "tnoTt modem 
about It," using gas, electric chain, 
shdoting, hanging — "Whatever way 
seems most appropriate" — in elim- 
inating all Semitic peoples except 
Christian Jew.s. These he would 
settle in another land — not Pales- 
tine. 
BEGAN CAREER IN 1942 

Stoner's career as a Klan hero 
began In IM2 when he was given 
llie title of Kleagle by Imperial 
Wizard James Colescott, head of 
the organization for the United 
States. The young man relates 
that he Joined the Klan since it 
seemed imprudent during the war 
to as.soei.itc himself with some of 
the other urKanizations whose 
leaders then were being arrested 
for .•.edition. 

Interviewed ut his home. Stoner, 
a pudRy little man with close- 
cropped h.iir and red-rimmed eyes, 
spoke freely of his dream for a 
new Amerirn. He explained that 
the Republican and Democratic 
parties were poor places for a man 
who Is attempting to work with 
prejudice. 

"Look what happened to Ham 
Fish in New York. The first thing 
he knew, the leaders of both par- 
ties were after him." 

As a consequence, Stoner plans 
to form a third political party with 
a nucleus of Klansmen which will 
deal with what he calls racial and 
rellRioiis problems in a wholeaale, 
if ruthless, manner. He will ad- 
mit women becauae they arc 
"more gullible, Muler to fool." 
BS8ENCB OP NEW FARTT 

The essence of the new part> 
will be "to make being a Jaw i 
crime, punishable by death." 

"We'll just take them out and 
km tliem," ha grinned. "That may 
sound a little •xtren* but cthai 
cooDtrles hava- dona it." 

In furtherance of thcae aims, 
Stoner has had a stamp made 
marked "Down with the Jews," 
which he prints on all letters, "ex- 
cept when I'm writing to Govern- 
ment offices, of course." He also 
hopes to substitute this stamp for 
"sincerely yours" In all corre- 
spondence by members of his 
party. 



Regarding Negroes, Stoner 
blandly suggest* all colored peo- 
ple be relocated in Africa "where 
we can send them tome Cadillacs 
and make them happy." He would 
like similar action to be taken 
with Japanese, Chinese and 
Southern Europeans, whom be 
does not consider white. 

The country as it Is now la not 
much to Stoner's liking. He teea 
President Truman as a traitor to 
the principles for which he, Ston- 
er, stands. In a letter to Stetson 
Kennedy, author of a soon-to-ba- 
publlshed book on Fasclstlc or- 
ganizations entitled "Southern Ex- 
posure," Stoner went so far as to 
write; 

"Congress Should Impeach Pres- 
ident Truman for betraying Amer- 
ica to the Jews." 
HITS SUPREME COURT 

He has similar things to aay 
about the Supreme Court, particu- 
larly Charles Evans Hughes, 
whom,he pictures in most tincom- 
pUmentary terms for his attempts 
to alleviate racial tensions. The 
Nation's sedition trials during the 
war also are indicative of how the 
country is being run. Stoner opin- 
ed. In this connection he later 
mentioned ttiat his Idea of the 
greatest living American is Col. 
Eugene Nelson Sanctuary, now 
undei^ a double indictment for m- 
dlUon in Washington. 

Poesessed of o shrewd, quick 
mind, he has learned much from 
his association with Klan officials 
and his career as a Klan organizer. 
Concerning the internal politics of 
the Klaiv he remarked that Im- 
perial wizard James Colescott, 
leader of the Klan Corporation 
whose charter Georgia now Is at- 
tempting to annul, is purpoaoiy 
keeping hlmse^ in the background 
these days. 

.ccording to Stoner. Colescott 
iizes that the Klan Corporation 
Is a dead Issue unless it Is able to 
pay off the huge tax assessment 
slapped on it In 1944 by the Treas- 
ury Department, in the Associa- 
tion of Georgia Klans, however, 
Stoner sees a means whereby the 
organization can continue to oper- 
ate without the fovernment walk- 
ing In. 

"If the Klan la organized State 
by Slate the way Green has done 
in Georgia, the government can't 
go Into the Atlanta headquarter* 
and find out what's going on in 
California or Illinois." 
OWN HISTORY 

Stoner's own history with the 
hooded order also gives some in- 
dication of the present status of 
Klan affairs After Colescott 
suspended activity of the Klan on 
a national basis In 1944, Stoner 
continued to operate as a organ- 
izer. Since he was not yet 21. he 
lould not rent a post office box 
In Ills own name for communica- 
tion purposes and therefore uted 
the name of R. W. Byerly. 

Leaning against a bank of poison 



oak — "Poison oak doesn't bother 
me" — Stoner steadfastly refused 
to have his face photographed. 

"After all. It would be kind of 
dangerous having people 1 don't 
know recognizing me on the 
street," he said, explaining his 
penchant for Invisibility. 

In December of last yeer. 
Stone, who suffers from a Coeb- 
bels like limp and sinus trouble, 
decided to go to Florida for his 
health At the •ams time, ha said, 
his Tennessee Klan posts ware tak- 
en over by Green, who chartered 
them In the name of the Associa- 
tion of Georgia Ktans. 

"Of course I could run Green 
out whenever I wanted to," Stoner 
confided. 

Regarding a possible rift be- 
tween Green and Colescott, on 
the grounds that Oreen was in po- 
sition tn take control of the Klan 
from his former l)ois, Stoner was 
certain that Georgia, Tennessee 
and Kloridn — and probably most 
of the country — "would go for 
Coleiicutt" It the Isaue were ever 
liroiight to H head 

At the moment, Stoner 1« engag 
rd In Kclllng copies of "The Pro 
tocol, of 7.ioii," a bitterly »ntl 
Semitic pamphlet whclh received 
Hient currency in Europe through 
the efforts of the late Adolph Hit 
ler The fact that he charges t2 
for this brochure and has stamped 
his favorite epithet against the 
Jews on the Inside of each enve- 
lope In which the pamphlet la 
mailed may have laid him open 
to action by the Department of 
Justice 
C'HATTANOOOA COMPLAINS 

In Chattunnoga. for exanu>le, 
local citizens complained to the 
Post Office Department and the 
iniiller was referred ' to the Jus 
lire Depftrlmenl In Washington In 
May for a decision on the legality 
of Stoner's us-? of the mails. 

Undaunted, Stoner soon will 
have another book availablei for 
distribution which he himself has 
written. He described It as his ef- 
fort to disprove certain theses on 
racial matters by reference to the 
Bible. The book, to be printed in 
Chattanooga through the auspioea 
of an unldeptlfled ChatUnoota 
businessman who will tinderwrlie- 
all costs of printing and advertit- 
Ing, will sell for $3, Stoner added. 

The new book is an integral 
part of his new party, he said, 
both of which will be pushed from 
an undercover office. As far as 
help goes, he has recruited a book- 
keeper and seversl Klansmen to 
assist with advertising and mail- 
ing. Plans to run a candidate for 
Congress In the Third Tennessee 
District, however, have been de- 
ferred until 1948, he said. 

While Stoner it at issue with 
the Klan on various points — "I 
know Iota of Catholics who are 
anti-Jew, so why should I ex- 
clude them?" he maintains dote 
eonteet with the Klan as a recruit- 
int (round for members of hit 
new party. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3821 



Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-B 

[New York Times, }\i\y 11, 1965] 



MODERATES FAIL 
TO AID BOGA LUSA 

Most Remain Silent While 
Extremists Hold Sway 



By RAY REED 

SpeciaJ to The New York Times 

BOGALUSA, La., July 10— At 
2:30 P.M. yesterday, A. Z. 
Young, the president of the 
Bogalusa Civic and Voters 
League, mounted a speaker's 
platform and called off a civil 
rights march for w^hich 400 
Negroes had assembled. 

Mr. Young reluctantly agreed 
with the city officials that ten- 
sion was high. A street dem- 
onstration 24 hours earlier had 
ended in violence. The city had 
asked him to cancel further 
marches. 

Thirty minutes later, a young 
white man leaned against a post 
on a downtown street and said 
with satisfaction to a com- 
panion, "Well, we scared 'em 
off." 

The issue was apparently un- 
cluttered in the young man's 
mind: The whites and the Neg- 
roes were in a fight and the 
whites had scored a victory. 

This vmcomplicated approach 
to race relations is not uncom- 
mon in Bogalusa. It was en- 
couraged tliis week by a pair 
of roving white supremacists, 
J. B. Stoner and Connie Lynch. 
Sponsored by the National 
States Rights party, Mr. Stoner 
and Mr. Lynch are in Bogalusa 
with the same road show they 
used to inflame white mobs in 
St. Augustine during the sum- 
mer of 1963. 

'Not a Human Being' 

Mr. Stoner stood on a plat- 
form at the edge of towm 
Thursday night and said: 

"The nigger is not a human 
being. He is somewhere between 
the white man and the ape. We 
don't believe In tolerance. We 
don't believe in getting along 
with our enemy, and the nig- 
ger ds our enemy. Every time 
a nigger gets a job, that's just 
one more job that you can't 
have. 

"You notice the niggers are 
singing, 'I Love Everybody.' 
They sure do love everybody, 
and especially our white women. 
What the nigger really wants 
is our white women." 



Mr. Stoner is an Atlanta law- 
yer who has represented Ku 
klux Klansmen in criminal 
cases. He once was a self-styled 
Imperial Wizard of the Chris- 
tian Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan. He was the Vice-Presi- 
dential candidate of the National 
States Rights party in 1964. 

Mr. Lynch Is a Jong-time 
associate' of Klan leaders and 
is minister of the Church of 
Jesus Chrijt Christian, Inc., at 
Riverside, CalKf. 

At St. Augustine, the two 
men helped agitate the white 
mobs that attacked Negro 
demonstrators in the streets. At 
Bogalusa, they are advising 
whites to "go into the streets 
and stand up for your rights." 
They are urging the whites to 
arm themselves and store 
ammunition. 

Audience Reaches 2,000 

Almost 1,500 men, women 
and children went to hear them 
Thursday night. The r-owd was 
up to 2,000 last night. This is in 
a town with a population of 
23,000. 

White resentment has intensi- 
fied since Thursday, the day 
the States Rights party came 
to town for an indefinite 
stay. That day, a Negro shot a 
white man who had attacked 
him with his fists during a civil 
rights march. The white man is 
in a New Orleans hospital, 70 
miles south of here across Lake 
Ponchartrain, nursing two bul- 
let woimds. 

The resentment is ma^e worse 
by fear. The Negro who fired 
the shots is believed to be a 
member of the Deacons for De- 
fense and Justice, an armed 
Negro protective league that 
has sprung up in Bogalusa and 
other Southern towns in re- 
sponse to white terrorism. Most 
whites don't want to admit it. 
but the Deacons send a chill 
down their spines. 

Mr. Stoner mentioned the 
Deacons in his address last 
night in stressing that the 
white people had to arm them- 
selves. 

Meanwhile, on the other side 
of town, the Congress of Racial 
Equality and its local support- 
ing organization, the Bogalusa 
Civic and Voters League, con- 
tinued to push their drive for 
better jobs and less racial dis- 
crimination. The drive began 
early this year and already the 
friction created among resist- 
ant whites has resulted in sev- 
eral injuries and one death. A 
Negro sheriff's deputy was am- 
bushed and slain June 2. 

The Negro gain?, have been 



negUgible. Few jobs have been 
added, although the Crown- 
Zellerbach Corporation, which 
operates a papermill here and 
is the town's Ijirgest employer, 
has liberalized its policy, but 
not enough, the Negroes say. 
Restaurants that cater to whites 
opened their doors briefly to 
Negroes last spring but have 
firmly shut them again since 
the build-up of tension. 
Both Attitudes Stiffen 

Attitudes have noticeably 
stiffened on both sides. 

Gov. John J. McKeithen at- 
white man to "the extremists 
on both sides.'' 

"A plague on both their 
houses," he said. 

The Governor's remark im- 
plies that a large moderate 
element existe in Bogalusa. The 
city's leading moderate. Mayor 
Jesse H. cStrer Jr., publicly 
contends the same thing, but 
privately concedes he is dis- 
mayed to find so few of "the 
good people" speaking up and 
supporting the moderate posi- 
tion. 

A few weeks ago, a group of 
moderates drafted a statement 
of belief in law and order. They 
began gathering signatures with 
the intention of publishing the 
statement to show the world 
that Bogalusa was not in the 
hands of bigots and extremists. 
The project has quietly faded 
into the background. It is un- 
derstood that not enough sign- 
atures could be obtained. 

Vertrees Young, the city's 
No. 1 elder citizen, who headed 
the papermill until he retired 
several years ago is still a 
source of advice and inspiration 
in civic matters and visited 
Mayor Cutrer Thursday eve- 
ning. He sat in the white- 
columned City Hall and wept. 
He pleaded with the Mayor to 
tell him what he could do to 
help his unhappy town. 

When the Mayor could offer 
no satisfactory suggestion, Mr. 
Young left City Hall and went 
to the National States Rights 
party rally on the edge of town. 
The old man made his way to 
the speaker's platform and stood 
shaking his head in anger and 
disagreement as Mr. Stoner and 
Mr. Lynch instructed the citi- 
zens of Bogalusa in "the nigger 
problem." 

At the end, he asked permis- 
sion to speak two minutes in 
opposition. 

They turned him down, and 
he hung his head and went 
home. 



3822 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 
Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 2-C 

[Louisville, Ky., Courier -Journal, December 3, 1965] 



Defense Lawyer Denounces Jury 

White Man Convicted 
In Negro Slaying 



ANNISTON, Ala. (UPI)— An all-white 
jury convicted Hubert Strange of second- 
degree murder yesterday for the night- 
rider slaying of Negro Willie Brewster 
and sentenced him to 10 years in prison. 

It was the first time in recent history 
that a Southern jury has convicted a 
white man of a racial killing. 

Strange was speechless. 

His attorney wept and denounced the 
jurors as "white niggers." The jury was 
escorted from the courthouse by state 
troopers. 

Negro Killed From Car 

The all-male jury deliberated more 
than 10 hours before returning the ver- 
dict at 4:15 p.m. after 20 ballots. 

Strange, 25, and two other white men 
were indicted for the killing. Brewster 
was mortally wounded July 15 by a shot 
fired from a passing car as he drove 
home from the foundry where he worked. 

The other two suspects, Lewis Blevins, 
26, and Johnny Defries, 25, will be tried 
later. 

Strange's attorney. States Rights Parly 
olfidal J B. Stoiier, blood in the cour^t- 
room with tears streaming down his 
cheeks and said, "I was surprised that 
a jury of 12 so-called white men would 
convict an innocent person on such a 
flimsy case." 

Stoner charged that Strange was con- 
victed by the "so-called blue-ribbon 
men" on the jury. He said these business 
and professional men were interested 
in "the dollar." 

They convicted Strange, he said, to 
"keep things nice and peaceful." 

"I would rather have some good black 



niggers than the white niggers on the 
jury," he said. Stoner is from Augusta, 
Ga. 

The jury foreman was Brandon Rig- 
ney, a typewriter salesman. He read the 
-verdict. The other 11 included four 
factory workers, two farmers, a retired 
fireman, a banker, a civilian employe at 
the Anniston Army Depot, a telephone 
repairman and a telephone service fore- 
man. 

The Southern Christian Leadership 
Conference had printed leaflets de- 
nouncing an acquittal of Strange and 
calling for protest demonstrations. The 
leaflets never were handed out. 

'Yes— Kill Them' 

Circuit Judge Robert Parker will pass 
sentence — already fixed in the verdict — 
today. Stoner said he would try to get 
Strange out of jail then on an appeal 
bond. 

Judge Parker told the jurors before 
they left that "if any attempt to intimi- 
date or chastise a juror is made, please 
let it be known to the court." 

As he lay dying in a hospital, Brewster 
said he had never taken part in civil 
rights activity. Two hours before he was 
shot, Stoner and the Rev. Connie Lynch, 
a segregationist lecturer, addressed a 
rally in Anniston. 

Lynch told the crowd then that "if it 
takes killing to get the niggers out of the 
white man's streets and to protect our 
constitutional rights, I say yes — kill 
them." 

After Strange's case went to the jury 
Wednesday, Judge Parker began hearing 
another — unrelated — murder case. The 
jury came back during a recess in the 
second case. It took the court by surprise. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 



3823 



Jesse Stoner Exhibit No. 4 

[The Thunderbolt, October 1965] 



Rrst HnisBMn Takes RHh Amendment 
Before Un-American Activities Committee 



TTie Home Cowmlttee on Un- 
American Activities has slipped 
Into the bands of the left-wing 
Liberals and Is being used to 
persecute Southern White peo- 
ple who ar« siandii^ up for the 
>«paretl(Bi 61 the races. Tills 
was Inevitable with the huge ma- 
jority L.B.J, took Into crff Ice with 
him diurlng the last election. Two 
weeks ago the first Klansman to 
take the witness stand (against 
his will) refused to answer any 
of the prying questions of this 
Stacked committee. His name is 
Robert Gentry, of Miurphrees- 
boro, fenn. He took the Fifth 
Amendiiient, and refused to ans- 
wer any questions. TTie commit- 
tee Is willing to allow leftwingers 
the right to use the 'Fifth,' but 
anempis to avoid grqnt{j}g the 
tain* to rlgJttwing p«trtcKS ^|t« 
Mr. Gentry. 

BLT, COMMITTEE CHAIR- 
MAN WILLIS OF LOUISIANA, 
(his true liberal colors now show- 
ing) THREATENED AND TRIED 
TO COERCE BOB GENTRY INTO 
GIVING TESTIMONY. He told 
Mr. Gentry that he would be 
charged with contempt if he didn't 
answer the questions. Then Willis 
told a FALSE story of some 
Irft -wingers being charged for 
contempt for not answering 
some time ago and being cited 
for contempt. But, what Chair- 
man Willis didn't tell Mr. Gentry 
was that these reds did not take 
the Fifth Amendment, they just 
walked out of thee ommtttee hear 
Ing without saying anything. 

THE GREAT U. S. CONSTITU- 
TION GIVES YOUTHERIGHTTO 
REFUSE TO GIVE ANY TESTI- 
MONY THAT MIGHT IN ANY- 
WAY INCRIMINATE YOURSELF. 
THAT IS IN THE FIFTH AMEND- 
MENT. .WD OUR FOREFA- 
THERS WANTED CITIZENS TO 
USE IT TO PROTECT THEM- 



SELVES FROM .VNY DICTATO- 
RIAL TYRANNY AS CONG.. WIL- 
LIS IS TRYING TO ESTABLISH. 
Attorney J. B. Stoner instructed 
Robert Gentry to take the Fifth 
Amendment and refuse to answer, 
and to stand pat. This Mr. Gentry 
did. Mr. Stoner informs this edi- 
tor that no man has ever been 
convicted of contempt of Con- 
gress for taking the Fifth Amend- 
ment. 



Chairman Willis should 

INSTRUn EACH WITNESS OF 
HIS INALIENABLE RIGHT TO 
TAKE THE FIFTH AMENDMENT 
BEFORE ANY QUESTIONS ARE 
ASKED. 'This committee is being 
used to pry into the secrets of 
the Klan so as to break up that 
organi7ation and try and entrap 
said witnesses into situations 
where they will be tricked into 
getting themselves In trouble. 




J. B. STONER 



Klansmen 

Being 

Threatened 

And Intimidated 

By Chalfinan 

Willis, 
Charges Stoner 



For these reasons, Atiornt-v J I'.. 
Stoner has petltioneO the ►•niitc 
House of Representatives to re- 
buke Chairman Willis and tcsiop 
this committee from trying to 
run roughshod over the rights of 
White people who are st;mdiiig tip 
against race-mixing. 



3824 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Weltner. 

Mr. Weltner. I have no questions. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any questions, Mr. Buchanan ? 

Mr. Buchanan. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. 

Mr. Weltner? 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, It is my understanding that, with 
the excusal of this witness, there are no further witnesses to be called 
in public hearings at least for the time being. That being the case, 
I would ask the Chair's permission to submit a brief statement at this 
point. 

I think we have been here for 9 or 10 weeks in open hearings. That 
followed a lengthy investigation, in which the staff and members of 
the staff were engaged full time, and many members of the committee 
were heavily engaged in some of the executive hearings that preceded 
the public hearmgs. 

We have now been involved in this endeavor for well over a year 
since the matter first came out. A great deal has happened in that 
time. 

I cannot help but express my desire publicly to commend our dis- 
tinguished chairman for his statesmanship and his courage in this 
investigation. He has suffered personally politically as a result of it. 
The night before last, he and his Louisiana colleague, Mr. Hale Boggs, 
were hanged in effigy by the Ku Klux Klan group in the State of 
Louisiana. He is the subject of a declaration of political war upon 
him as a result of the sulDJect of this investigation, the Klan. He 
has been ill, and I know that he would want to be here for the con- 
clusion of this matter, but his health prohibits that. 

In expressing my lively affections and admiration for him, I also 
wish to express my gratitude and admiration for the staff, I think 
this committee sometimes is criticized for the size of its staff, but the 
work produced and the quality of careful, patient, investigative work 
has not been equaled by anything I have seen. As one member of this 
committee, the staff is entitled to a substantial amount of credit and 
great commendation for its work. 

A year ago it was my firm belief that the great majority of South- 
erners were far from abiding and agreeing with the Klan outlook 
and the Klan mentality. It was my hope a year ago that these hearings 
would substantiate that factor for all the world to see. I believe that 
has been the case. 

I think we have shown that although Klan activity is widespread 
to a degree, it exists independent and separate and apart from the 
opinions, the outlook, the viewpoint of the vast majority of Southern- 
ers — ^the vast majority of white Southerners. I believe the hearings 
have shown that. 

I think they have done some other things too. 

In the first place, we have seen the drastic diminution in Klan ac- 
tivity throughout the South. We have seen areas that were Klan 
infested, and now they are in a state of dormancy with respect to Klan 
action. 

As a result of these hearings, I believe there has been a substantial 
effect within the Klan itself, brought about by the revelations concern- 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3825 

in^ the financial aflfairs of the Klan and the consistent claiming of the 
privilege against self-incrimination and the undoubted substantiation 
between Klan activity and acts of violence, which have certainly 
caused many persons who may have joined the Klan under a mis- 
apprehension as to its goals to withdraw from it and realize their 
serious mistake. 

Insofar as the effect of these hearings on the great bulk of the 
Southern people not connected with this, I think the Southern tem- 
perament against violence has been heightened, and it has become quite 
evident that the days of Klan influence in political and social decisions 
of the South are over. That is as it should be. 

I think these hearings have accomplished that and have been of vast 
assistance along those lines. 

Now the question, Mr. Chairman, is : What now ? 

I would say that it is my hope that we will move as quickly as the 
chairman of the full committee desires into open public legislative 
hearings. 

I have proposed legislation which I think will be valuable. It can 
be vastly improved by the thoughts and expressions of my colleagues 
on this committee. There are other members of this committee who 
have good suggestions, and we need now to proceed to legislative 
hearings. 

Secondly, I think it would be a mistake for this committee to close 
today and give the impression to any interested observer that we are 
closing, once and for all, the books on the Ku Klux Klan. I think 
that book has to stay open. Just as this committee has a duty of con- 
tinuing a constant surveillance, a sustained surveillance, in what has 
traditionally been its area, I think that we must now undertake an 
additional responsibility of further concern with all groups, South- 
ern or otherwise, which through the use of force and violence seek 
to deprive the citizens of this country of the free exercise of rights 
guaranteed them by the Constitution and laws of the United States. 
I think that is the second thing that must be a part of the future 
responsibility of this committee. 

But, Mr. Chairman, I feel that, in spite of the valuable legislative 
contribution we can make and in spite of the continuing responsibility 
of this committee in this field, the real question is not up to this com- 
mittee or to the House of Representatives or to the United States Con- 
gress. The real question is up to the people of the South. 

All of us here today are Southern men. We have given the people 
of our section the facts about the Klan, and it is now time for the 
people of that section to look at those facts, to weigh them to deter- 
mine whether or not the Klan is going to govern community affairs 
in the South, or whether it will be the people of the South. 

So, the challenge now passes from Congress and it is placed directly 
into the hands of the people of the South. I for one am confident 
that Southern people are anxious to make their own decisions; that 
they desire the democratic processes to be operative ; and they desire 
that the problems of the South, however pressing and compelling 
they may be, be determined within the framework of the Consti- 
tution of the United States, in accordance with the laws of the United 
States and in accordance with the free expression of public opinion. 



3826 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

I do not believe that Southerners really want to turn those decisions 
over to any group of hooded, hidden, terroristic, anonymous men. 

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity of expressing these 
remarks. In closing these hearings, I think we have accomplished 
what we have set out to do and I think the future will support that 
observation. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan. 

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, let me begjin by associating myself 
with the remarks of my colleague from Georgia, Mr. Weltner, concern- 
ing the way in which our chairman, Mr. Willis, has conducted these 
proceedings. 

It would seem that any fairminded person would recognize the 
restraint, the good judgment he has demonstrated in the way he 
has led us. 

I should also like to compliment the outstanding work of our staff 
and, finally, to second his words concerning the fine people of the 
South. 

The gentleman from Georgia and I may disagree widely in our 
politics, yet we in the South stand together in overwhelming majority 
against violence and terrorism and racial bigotry. 

Mr. Chairman, the purpose of this investigation has been to obtain 
facts and develop information concerning the various Klan organiza- 
tions for legislative purposes. If, as various Klan leaders claimed 
at the outset, the Ku Klux Klan did not fit the ugly image it has 
had in the minds of many Americans throughout the long years, such 
investigation would reveal this injustice and clear its name. 

He who had nothing to hide had nothing to fear from this 
investigation. 

It was my hope that leaders of the various Klan organizations 
would freely testify, as some of them had boasted they would do. 
We have been determined here to ascertain the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth about the Ku Klux Klan. 

In spite of the persistent noncooperation and opposition of the Klan 
leaders, accompanied by vitriolic attacks upon the personalities and 
purposes of this committee, we have accumulated a mountain of evi- 
dence and testimony concerning the several Klan organizations. We 
have done so through the outstanding investigative work of our dedi- 
cated and highly competent staff. 

Out of this has come a sordid picture of bigotry and hate, of terror- 
ism and violence. We have had testimony of beatings and bombings 
and burnings and worse. 

From our own investigators' sworn testimony, from other reliable 
witnesses, and from other documentary evidence we have developed 
a great deal of damaging information about the Ku Klux Klan. 

In vivid contrast, the favorable testimony concerning the "Invisible 
Empire" has been minute, and the charges answered few. Those high 
officers who should have been its most ardent and eloquent apologists 
have sat before us mute and silent, unable or unwilling to speak in 
defense of the Ku Klux Klan. 

We are, therefore, forced to the conclusion that the traditional ugly 
image of the Ku Klux Klan is essentially valid — preaching love and 
peace, yet practicing hatred and violence; claiming fidelity to the 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3827 

Constitution, yet systematically abrogating the constitutional rights 
of other citizens — indeed, the very constitutional rights and privileges 
they themselves cling to and have hidden behind in the course of these 
hearings; and taking the law into their own hands to pass judgment 
and administer penalties. Their record seems clearly one of moral 
bankruptcy and of staggering hypocrisy. Claiming to be champions 
of the South, they have brought down upon the fine people of the 
South, who, in overwhelming majority, are not racial bigots and who 
deplore terrorism and violence, the scorn of the world and the wrath 
of the Nation. 

The Klan itself has thus proved the wellspring of unjust and puni- 
tive legislation against the South. 

Claiming to be anti- Communist, the Klan has played into the hands 
of atheistic communism, fulfilling Communist goals for racial strife 
and turmoil in our Nation, punctuated by acts of violence, and provid- 
ing grist for the Communist propaganda mills all over the world. 

Mr. Chairman, this is not a court of law, and our purpose here is to 
develop information rather than to convict anyone of anything. Yet, 
if the Ku Klux Klan were a defendant in a trial and the Nation should 
be its jury, in light of the mountain of condemnatory evidence devel- 
oped in these proceedings, that jury would have no choice but to 
declare the defendant guilty as charged. 

Mr. Pool, Thank you, Mr. Buchanan. 

At the close of today's session, the committee will recess the public- 
hearing phase of the Klan investigation, subject to the call of the 
Chair. In all probability, a further call will be dependent upon a 
Supreme Court ruling, expected almost any day now, which will deter- 
mine the advisability of the committee's hearing certain subpenaed 
witnesses from the State of Georgia. The court ruling may be such 
that this session will be the last public hearing on Klan organizations. 

The committee has held 36 days of public hearings on the Klans, 
during which 187 witnesses have testified. The 4300-page hearing 
record, unfortunately, indicates that, with few exceptions, top-ranking 
Klan leadere have refused to divulge information about the Klans or 
their aims and objectives. 

Mr. Willis, the chairman of this subcommittee and the full com- 
mittee, in his opening statement of last October 19, pointed out that 
certain Klan leaders had publicly stated that they welcomed the inves- 
tigation. Their conduct ever since then, however, has belied their 
statements. While in the witness chair, they consistently invoked the 
fifth amendment in response to all questions asked them. Outside 
the hearing room, they conducted a vicious smear campaign against 
the committee, particularly against the chairman, and, in addition, 
have done everything possible to frustrate the committee's investiga- 
tion by intimidating potential witnesses, urging them not to talk, and 
similar activities. 

In his opening statement, the chairman also pointed out that the 
Klans claimed to be patriotic, 100 percent American, Christian, moral, 
and law-abiding and that, for this reason, the committee hoped it 
would not experience what it had while investigating other matters 
within its jurisdiction — witness after witness invoking the fifth amend- 
ment when asked, not about their beliefs, but their actions. 



3828 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

As far as I am concerned, and all members of the subcommittee 
share my view, the conduct of Klansmen and Klan leaders both on 
the witness stand and outside the hearing room — and the facts placed 
in this hearing record — have completely exploded the Klan's phony 
claims about 100 percent Americanism, patriotism, their being law- 
abiding, and so forth. 

The Klans have had their chance to state their case under oath. 
They refused to take advantage of their opportunity, and the reasons 
they refused are spread all through the record. They have nothing to 
tell that would do them, or the Klans, a bit of good in the eyes of the 
American people. They remained silent, I am convinced, because 
they dared not speak the truth. Like most other un- Americans the 
committee has dealt with, they are loud-mouthed when in a mob, but 
silent when in a witness chair and, therefore, under compulsion to 
speak the truth or hold their tongues. 

These hearings have been held, as the chairman pointed out last 
October, to assist the Congress in drafting such remedial legislation 
as it deemed appropriate and necessary to deal with the problems 
created by Klan activities. In his opening statement, the chairman 
asked this question : 

What must Congress know to determine whether legislation is called for in 
this area and, if so, what type legislation will be effective? 

He answered the question in the following words : 

It must know the objectives and purposes of the Ku Klux Klans, their struc- 
ture and organizations, their affiliated organizations, and groups created or con- 
trolled by them or organized to support, defend, and assist them. The Congress 
must know their constitutions and bylaws, the type of activities in which 
they engage, how they are controlled, who their key officers are, how Klan 
groups are financed, and what their funds are used for. It must know whether 
the Klans subscribe to — and use — illegal means to achieve either declared or 
concealed objectives. The Congress must know whether the operations and 
actions directed and carried out by Klan leaders and certain members are in 
accord with the wishes of the membership as a whole, or whether certain ac- 
tivities are engaged in without the knowledge and approval of the membership. 
It must know whether Klan recruits are informed of the true nature and 
purposes of the Klans — or whether they are hoodwinked into joining them. It 
must also know, of course, something of the size, strength, and scope of the 
Klan movement. These are the matters which are the subject of this inquiry. 

We believe these hearings have produced this information, that 
all the facts which the Congress will need to legislate on this matter 
have been placed in the record. 

The record is not a pretty one. It is a record of floggings, beatings, 
killings, of talk of and plans to assassinate public figures and others 
for no other reason than the color of their skin or the fact that 
they disapprove of the ideas, policies, and activities of the Klans. It 
is a record of the activities of sneaky, cowardly men, taking advantage 
of the cover of night and superiority in numbers to intimidate and do 
physical violence to young and old, male and female. It is a record 
of hatred, a record of double-dealing, of quarreling and fighting over 
spoils, of leaders deceiving followers, a record that no real American 
could be proud of. 

Facts presented in the hearings have cause defections from the 
Klans. Our overall record, I believe, will cause more and more 
Klansmen to leave the ranks of these organizations and will reveal to 
all others the true and repulsive nature of the Klans. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3829 

I very much regret that the chairman of the committee cannot be 
here today for what may be the last public hearing in this investiga- 
tion. In his absence, speaking for myself and, I am sure, for all other 
members of the subcommittee, I want to pay tribute to his most effec- 
tive leadership in conducting this investigation and in his overall work 
as chairman of the committee. To me, it is a shameful thing that, 
because of what he has done, certain persons and groups have ganged 
up on him as they have and, by using every despicable trick and device, 
have tried to destroy his good name and reputation and end his career 
in Congress. The record being as I have described it, however, I can 
only say that you could never expect anything else from the Klans. 
There is no doubt in my mind but that the chairman is too big to be 
hurt by these dirty tactics and that the Klans will not succeed in their 
efforts to destroy his career. 

Let me say in conclusion that, while the investigative and hearing 
phase of the committee's activities in regard to the Klans has about 
ended, there is still work to be done in other areas. I have in mind, 
of course, the basic purpose for which these hearings were held — the 
drafting of legislation which will be effective in dealing with Klan- 
type activities. We will pursue this actively, and it is expected that, 
with the return of the chairman in the near future, hearings will be 
held on this subject. 

Various organizations and individuals have requested that they be 
granted an opportunity to testify in the legislative hearings. The 
committee would very much appreciate it if all such interested indi- 
viduals and organizations would communicate with it as soon as possi- 
ble to facilitate the scheduling of witnesses for the legislative hear- 
ings. 

Mr. Appell, would you care to say anything? 

Mr. Appell. No, Mr. Chairman. I would just request that we ad- 
journ subject to the call of the Chair. 

Mr. Pool. Before I do that, I also want to join my colleagues in 
praising the work of the investigative staff, the legal staff, and others 
on the Un-American Activities Committee staff. They have done a 
tremendous job, and we want to thank the press for the full coverage 
it has given these hearings. I think it is a great service to the Ameri- 
can people. 

The subcommittee will stand in adjournment subject to the call of 
the Chair. 

(Whereupon, at 12 :30 p.m., Thursday, February 24, 1966, the sub- 
committee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



59-222 O— 67-nPt. 5 23 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN 
THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 1965 

United States House of Representattves, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ B.C. 
executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities ^ 
met, pursuant to resolution dated March 30, 1965, at 10:30 a.m., in 
Room 313-A, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. 
Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding. 

( Subconmiittee members : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Lou- 
isiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Charles L. Weltner, of 
Georgia; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of 
Alabama.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis, Pool, and 
Ashbrook. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz, general counsel; Donald T. Appell, chief investigator; and 
Philip R. Manuel and B. Ray McConnon, Jr., investigators. 

The Chairman. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

This hearing is being held pursuant to a resolution adopted by the 
committee on March 30 of this year,^ authorizing a formal investiga- 
tion of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization withm the United States. 

Let the record show that a quorum of the subcommittee is present. 

Please raise your right hand, sir. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Gentry. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY 

Mr. Hitz. Mr. Gentry, ^ive your full name, please. 
Mr. Gentry. Robert Pittman Gentry. 
Mr. Hrrz. Where do you live now, Mr. Gentry ? 
Mr. Gentry. Route 4, Murf reesboro, Tennessee. 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

2 For appointment of subcommittee, see p. 1527. 

3 For resolution, see pp. 1523, 1524. 



3831 



3832 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLIJX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Gentry, I first want to advise you tliat this is an 
executive session. You have been told before you came here on nu- 
merous occasions while in Washington over the last 2 days, this is the 
third day, that this is an executive session that you would attend, and 
it is here now executive. 

In the room there are only the three members whom you see, Mr. 
Willis, our chairman ; Mr. Pool, a member ; and Mr. Ashbrook, a mem- 
ber, all of a subcommittee of the full Committee on Un-American 
Activities. 

In addition, there are the staff director, Mr. McNamara; next to 
him is Mr. Manuel, an investigator; and you know Mr. Appell, the 
chief investigator ; and Mr. McConnon you know to be a member of 
the staff as an investigator; you know me to be the chief counsel; and 
that gentleman, of course, is the reporter. So I want you to observe 
that this is an executive session, as I tell you it is, and that there is no 
one other than members of the committee or the staff membership and 
the reporter present. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I think you ought to advise him that there 
might be two other members of the subcommittee who might come in. 

Mr. HiTz. There may be other members of the subcommittee come 
in later on. 

If you care to at any point, you may ask me who it is who is coming 
into the room, and I will likely tell you. 

I want to advise you that, inasmuch as you obviously do not have 
an attorney here today, under the rules of the committee you may have 
an attorney here today. Being as you are from out of town and you 
don't have one, you will be given a reasonable and adequate, but short, 
opportmiity to get an attorney. 

We will assist you in that in the sense that we will put you in the 
way of fuiding an attorney, possibly by contacting the bar association 
and its facilities. We camiot appoint an attorney because we don't 
have the appointing power to do it. 

With that in mind, I will ask you in addition this question : Have 
you consulted an attorney or more than one after you had been 
subpenaed to appear here for this occasion ? 

Mr. Gentry, I have, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. And just tell us in what city or where that was. 

Mr. Gentry. That was in Murfreesboro, Tennessee; Washington, 
D.C. ; Augusta, Georgia. 

(At this point Representative Buchanan entered the hearing room.) 

The Chairivian, This is Mr, Buchanan, a member of the subcom- 
mittee. 

Mr. HiTz, Do you understand what I told you about representation 
by counsel and all that I have said on that subject? 

Mr, Gentry. I do, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. You are aware of it and understand what I have said ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you desire now to have counsel ? 

Mr. Gentry. No ; I do not, 

Mr, HiTz, Another subject : You have the right, as do all witnesses 
here and in other proceedings, to take advantage of your rights against 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3833 

self-incrimination under the fifth amendment of the Federal Constitu- 
tion, wliich means that you do not have to answer questions which you 
think might divulge information from you that might tend to incrimi- 
nate you for any State or Federal prosecution, ill or well brought. 

Do you midei-stand what I have said in that regard ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir, 

Mr, HiTz. Have you discussed this matter at some length with your 
attorneys prior to coming here ? 

Mr, Gentry, Yes, sir ; I have, 

Mr. HiTz. And you have received advice from them as to what you 
should do in that regard, have you ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. HiTz. So that, as we go along, you are in a position to make 
your own judgments and your choices in respect to the fifth amend- 
ment? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir, 

Mr, HiTz. Without any further ado, and without counsel ? 

Mr, Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Gentry, have you ever been a member of a Ku Klux 
Klan organization ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me and I assert 
my right not to answer as guaranteed by the fifth amendment of 
the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. HiTz. I would like to ask you a question or two about that. I 
also want you to realize, as I feel that you probably do from your talks 
with your counsel, that certain questions that go deeply or even fringe- 
wise around your claim of self-incrimination themselves may be re- 
fused of answer. Nevertheless, I am going to ask you whether you 
have, when you assert that privilege, a good-faith fear that the answer 
to that question might tend to incriminate you in a State or Federal 
charge. 

Do you have a fear of prosecution ? 

Mr. Gentry. I do, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. In addition to that, do you also have a fear of retaliation 
by anyone if you should answer that and related questions that we 
may put to you? 

Mr. Gentry, I do, sir, 

Mr, HiTZ. Would you care to tell us from what source you fear that 
retaliation if you should answer that and related questions? 

Mr. Gentry. From the Ku Klux Klan, sir. 

Sir, at this time, I would like to speak before we go any farther with 
the proceedings. 

The Chairman, Would you speak a little louder, please? 

Mr, Gentry. I am sorry. 

I explained to counsel at this time, with the permission of the com- 
mittee and permission of the staff, I would like to speak and go a little 
bit more into detail and explain myself on this stand that I am taking. 

I have agreed, before coming into this closed session of the commit- 
tee, that if certain guarantees were made to me that I would be more 
than glad to give cooperation to this committee. But without these 
grants that I have referred to, I am afraid I won't be able to be of 



3834 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

very much help to the committee. Don't misunderstand. I am not 
trying to set the rules for this committee or intimidate any member of 
this committee or anything of that nature. I am merely trying to 
protect myself in this matter, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, your protection comes under the provisions 
of the Constitution. You have the right to invoke the fifth amend- 
ment at any point that your conscience causes you to believe you would 
be testifying against yourself or giving incriminating evidence against 
yourself. 

I don't know exactly what more you mean or what more you assert. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr, Gentry, do you care to spell that out a litte more, 
to tell us under what conditions you feel that you will be protected 
and, therefore, satisfied in respect to your fear of prosecution and 
also in respect to your fear of retaliation if you give certain informa- 
tion to us today ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I will. 

Mr. HiTz. Spell that out for the chairman and the committee. 

The Chaiirman. I want the record to show that the young man who 
just came in is a member of the staff. 

(At this point Mr. Butler entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

These requests I can put under three separate headings. I will be 
glad to elaborate on these headings if necessary, although I feel them 
to be self-explanatory. Number one is that any testimony that I 
give before this committee be kept in strict secrecy, and that even ap- 
plies to inferrals or suggestions to the press or anything of this nature 
or anyone outside of this committee. 

The Chairman. In answer to that, I will say that this is an execu- 
tive session, and executive sessions are respected. Under the rules of 
the committee, for example, this subcommittee, even if it wished to, 
could not release testimony. It takes approval of a majority of the 
full committee. There is now no intention of asking the full committee 
to release that testimony. 

In other words, the intent is to take what }^ou say here today under 
oath, and the only condition is that everything you say must be the 
truth, whatever you do say, and which will be transcribed. 

It is not intended to be released. 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, the reason I ask this particular stipulation is 
that this rule that you speak of, of secrecy in this committee, has not 
been observed, in my opinion^ to the utmost in past hearings or in this 
hearing, this particular hearing in other investigations before today. 

I have knowledge at this time that because of statements that have 
been made and released to the press and to the general public by mem- 
bers of this committee, that in all possibility innocent men's lives are 
in danger today. I don't want to find myself in that position, sir. 

The Chairman. That, I assure you, was not a committee action, and 
I assure you, speaking for myself, it did not come from me. 

I will ask the other members to speak for themselves. 

Mr. Pool. At any meetings I have been to, I have never revealed 
anything that has come out of an executive session and I do not 
intend to. 

Mr. Ashbrook. Nor I. 

Mr. Buchanan. Nor I. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3835 

The Chairman. The other three members indicate the same thing. 

Mr. Pool. The only way that would be released would be by action 
of the full committee to authorize its publication, which could happen 
if the full conmiittee so desired. But that is a matter that the chairman 
explained to you. 

Is that right, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. That is correct. No request will be made of the 
full committee to release this testimony. There is no intention that 
that be done. 

Do you mean you have an incident involving the hearings on the 
Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. Sir, I have in my possession a photostat 
of a portion of the Nashville Banner, printed on last Thursday after- 
noon^ that I was referring to in particular. 

With your permission, I would like to read this. 

The Chairman. Let me take a look at it. 

(Document handed to chairman.) 

The Chairman. This is a news release which is along the lines that 
you indicated, except it speaks in terms not of a committee action but 
of a newspaper reporter, without quoting any member who said that 
a member had said the committee "has located a key witness in its 
investigation of the Ku Klux Klan, a former Klansman who 'told all,' 
a member of the committee said today." 

How those things get out, with what accuracy a newspaperman 
puts them out, I don't know. But I assure you it is not an action of 
the committee. 

Mr. AsHBRooK. It does not mention any name specifically. 

The Chairman. Anyway, you know what I have said, and I am 
speaking for the committee. 

Proceed with your next question. 

If you have any other statement to make, you may. 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I do. 

I mentioned when I started into this that I did have three requests 
to make. That was one. 

The Chairman. Well, all right. Are you satisfied with my answer 
to number one ? If you are not, it is useless to go into others. 

Mr. Gentry. I understood you to say, sir, that I did have your 
assurance that this would be all confidential and in secrecy; is that 
correct ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir; and I explained to you why and the 
circumstances that I was speaking under. 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I am satisfied with that. 

The Chairman. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. Gentry. The next request that I would like to make 

The Chairman. Along that line, let me ask you just one question. 

Did you say a moment ago that as a result of this news article you 
felt like you do today, or that you had heard others say that they 
felt like you do ? 

Mr. Gentry. I am afraid I don't understand you, sir. 

The Chairman. You referred to this article and you said — I don't 
remember if you said that you had heard that other witnesses were 
nervous because of this news article appearing. 



3836 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, in relation to this particular article, it is my 
understanding that probably an innocent man has been accused by 
the Klan and that 

The Chairman. I don't know what you mean by that. In other 
words, you are speaking for yourself. You are not speaking for other 
witnesses? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Nobody was accused of anything. I do not ap- 
plaud the article. Nobody was really accused of anything except the 
article says that a witness "told all," and I am not commenting 
on that. 

So far as I am concerned, so far as the committee is officially con- 
cerned, there were no details of what that witness said, if he said it, 
it is not going to be revealed. 

Do you want to raise another point? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir; I do. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Gentry. My second request would be that any information 
I gave before this committee, that a stipulation be made that this 
information could never be used against me in court proceedings. 

The Chairman. I have to be very frank about this. The testimony, 
I have just said, will not be released by the committee. You can 
hardly expect me or this committee to tell you that officials of the 
State, officials of the Federal Government, are going to play dead 
and not involve you in anything that might come to their attention. 

You are asking me to say that what you say here will not be used 
against you. I have already indicated that the testimony won't be 
released. But I can't tell you that you may never be involved in court 
proceedings or certainly are not going to be involved in court proceed- 
ings on the basis of a release of that testimony. 

In other words, I think you are asking almost the same thing, if I 
understand you. If I don't, make it plain. 

Mr. Gentry. I will try to clarify that. 

Wliat I am referring to particularly is criminal proceedings that 
would be brought against me as a result of testimony that I Avould 
give before this committee. 

Mr. HiTZ. You are only asking in that regard about criminal pro- 
ceedings that might be brought against you involving the matters that 
you might testify a^bout? 

Mr. Gentry. Criminal or civil; yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. What we had in mind, among other things, was that the 
committee, I am convinced, would not care to give you any agreement 
that if you should be charged with perjury, for example, for what 
you might say today, that this won't be released in the interest of 
justice. But you don't make that asking? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

Mr, HiTz. Perjury excepted? 

Mr. Gentry. Perjury excepted. 

Mr. HiTz. By you today or at any appearance that you make on this 
trip to Washington under this subpena ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. It is my understanding he has stated his second proposi- 
tion. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3837 

Have you stated it fully ? 

Mr. Gentry. I have, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Has the chairman responded fully on that? 

The Chairman. I still feel that the second point in many ways is 
the same, or certainly involves the first. And I said in connection 
with the second point that I or this committee can't bind the actions of 
State or Federal officials. It would not be honest for me to assure you 
nothing can come about where you might be involved in a prosecution. 

In addition to that, I will say this, that if, for instance, not through 
action of the release of testimony — I have already told you we don't 
intend to release it — if, somehow, a criminal prosecution comes about 
and if a United States attorney, a local prosecuting attorney, a grand 
jury, or a court feels, whether involving you or anybody else, what you 
said here today would be important to be revealed and if I, for exam- 
ple, as chairman, should get a court order for me to go testify, I cer- 
tainly, if called and if the House grants permission to my being called 
and the revelation of the record, I would have to tell the truth. 

You see, you are asking me something over which I can't ultimately 
control outside parties. I am not implying, I am not saying, anything 
like that would ever happen. But you see my position. I want to be 
fair with you, but I have to be fair with myself. 

It involves more people than Ed Willis, and even you and maybe 
others may be involved. So, as I say, the point we are now talking 
about is so closely related to the first that if you are relying on the first 
point that is probably an answer to your second worry. 

But I want you to put yourself in my position and understand that 
I can't bind everyone. There are a lot of people in these United States, 
and a lot of things can happen. You are talking about a possibility. 
Anything is possible, and he is a fool who does not realize that. 

I understand your position. I understand your disposition and 
attitude. But I can only go as far as I have gone. 

Is there anything else ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes; there was one other request that I had to make 
before this committee before these proceedings get mider way. 

The Chairman. Let me tell you this further : We are after the facts. 
The facts are important. Somebody must assemble them. This sub- 
committee has been ordered by the full committee to conduct this 
investigation. The House of Representatives has supplied funds to 
conduct it. We are duty-bound to get the facts. In getting the facts, 
we don't intend to use tricks against anybody or to trick you into any 
situation that you feel might possibly involve you. We don't intend 
any such thing, if that affords you any consolation or relief. We don't 
intend to trick you. But on the other hand, people in America, gener- 
ally speaking, are imder a certain obligation to cooperate with their 
Government and the committees of Congress. 

I understand the way you feel, but ultimately you will find that 
the one thing that you can rely on is your ^arantees under the Federal 
Constitution. Those are not to be bargained away. I could not bar- 
gain it away or do anything to deprive you of that right. That is 
your ultimate protection, and you have that right at all times, you 
and any and all people who appear before this committee or any other 
committee of the Congress or any court or grand jury or petit jury, 
judge, or anything else. 



3838 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Thatprotection is yours at all tinies. 

Mr. GrENTRY. Sir, m view of your commitment on this second request, 
this third request that I had to make at this time I am sure is going 
to have quite a ring of humor to it. But, on the other hand, in view 
of what you have told me in regard to this second request, now even 
more so I am going to have to rely on this third request. 

I want it to be known and understood before this committee that I 
don't have any legal background personally. I have no law degree 
or anything of that nature. But I do know enough about procedure 
to know that if I invoke the fifth, it is my understanding that it be 
required that I carry the fifth amendment on through the particular 
field in which I invoke it and must refuse to elaborate in any way 
whatsoever. 

The third request, sir, is that I be allowed to discriminately invoke 
the fifth amendment through the course of this testimony for my 
protection. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you spell out your use of the word "discriminately" 
a little bit there? 

Mr. Gentry. At random, so to speak, whenever I feel like it is neces- 
sary to protect myself. 

I realize, sir, that this is very unusual. 

The Chairman. It is unusual. It is so unusual that it is hard to 
make a ruling in advance of the points where you would invoke it. 
The fifth amendment is something that cannot be bargained away or 
bargained about. You have protections under the fifth amendment. 
That does not come from me ; it comes from the Constitution. 

I do not know exactly what you feel and at what point you would 
say you would at random invoke the fifth amendment. I will say this, 
that the idea of these hearings is to get the facts and not to trick a 
witness. We do not intend to take advantage of you in any way. 

Some witnesses sometimes in the past have taken the position 
that they have a right to say everything that is good and harmless and 
fine about themselves and brag what great people they are and, having 
painted a beautiful picture about themselves, then just clam up and 
do not respond to cross-examination, you see. That is the area of black, 
white, and gray that I can't rule on in advance. 

I will say this, that we do not intend to lay a situation in an exami- 
nation to trick you in any way. We would not do it to anybody, so 
why should we do it to you. ? 

Mr. Gentry. Let me explain, sir, my position a little more clearly, 
and maybe by this you can understand a little bit more what I am 
trying to accomplish. I have come before this committee today with 
the intention of trying to be helpful and to be of benefit to this 
committee. 

The Chairman. We appreciate that. 

Mr. Gentry. But, on the other hand, I didn't come before this com- 
mittee today to become involved in any type of action that may result 
from it, whether it be in the nature of contempt proceedings or any- 
'thing of this nature. 

This is the reason, sir, that I did make that last request. 

The Chairman. There, again, you are getting close to the second 
point, involvements over which I have no control. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3839 

Proceed with your questions, Counsel, and we will face each situa- 
tion as we come to it. If what I have said leads the witness to the 
conclusion that he n\\ist invoke the fifth amendment at every point, 
that is up to him. 

On the other hand, I can only say that we do not intend to trick 
the witness and we do not intend to lay a situation, to deliberately 
create a situation, to make him guilty of contempt or criminal 
prosecution. 

iWe do not intend that. But I can't make a ruling in the blind before 
the situation develops. I understand your position, but that is the 
best the committee can do in all fairness to committee proceedings and 
to the Constitution itself. 

If you prefer, under these circumstances, to have a lawyer seated 
by you, we will adjourn the committee right now and give you an 
opportunity, a short, reasonable time, to get one. 

Mr. Gentry. That wouldn't be necessary, sir. 

The Chairman. It would not be necessary ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

The Chairman. We have to proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I have one question that I think might 
elicit an answer that would be helpful on this last, the third, matter. 

The Chairman. I do not see how we can go any further, the com- 
mittee, than I have said, on the occasion of trying to be fair, on the 
occasion of certainly not having any intent or creating any situation 
that might result in contempt or criminal prosecution or anything of 
the sort, but I cannot make a broad commitment on questions to come 
and positions to come until we really have faced them. 

Proceed with your questions. 

Mr. HiTZ. With that question or my general questioning? Shall 
I forego that question that might illuminate his point number three ? 

The Chairman. No ; let's proceed with the questions. 

Mr. HiTz. How old are you, sir ? 

Mr. Gentry. Twenty-seven years old, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Gentry. Nashville, Tennessee, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you now married and have children ? 

Mr. Gentry. I am, sir. I do. 

Mr. HiTz. How man^ children ? 

Mr. Gentry. Two, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Gentry. I am employed by Greer Stopnut Company, a division 
of K&K Manufacturing Company 

Mr. HiTz. Greer Stopnut Company ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Go ahead. 

Mr. Gentry. — as a machinist, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. How much schooling have you had ? 

Mr. Gentry. Thirteen years, sir, not counting service school. 

Mr. HiTZ. How far did you go in your schooling ? 

Mr. Gentry. Thirteen years, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Where did you end up in the type of schooling that 
you had ? 



3840 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Gentry. Freshman in college, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And your service schooling was of what sort ? 

Mr. Gentry. The communications field, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. In what service were you ? 

Mr. Gentry. The National Guard, but at the time of these service 
schools I was on active duty with the U.S. Army. 

Mr. HiTZ. For what length of time ? 

Mr. Gentry. All together, sir ? 

Mr. HiTZ. Yes. Your service. 

Mr. Gentry. Approximately a year and a half to two years. 

Mr. HiTZ. When did you come out of the service ? 

Mr. Gentry. I am not sure on the discharge date, sir; possibly in 
1961. 

Mr. HiTZ. And when you did, how old were you ? That would be 
4 years back from now and you would have been 23 ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did you go to live at that time ? 

Mr. Gentry. Murf reesboro, Tennessee, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did a time come when you went to live in Florida? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. When was that ? 

Mr. Gentry. 1961, 1 believe, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. What part of the year of 1961 ? 

Mr. Gentry. I am sorry, sir, I am not sure on that. 

Mr. Hitz. Did you have employment when you went to Florida? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Hitz. Where did you go ? 

Mr. Gentry. Jacksonville, Florida. 

Mr. Hitz. Did you obtain employment at Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Gentry. I did, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Wliat sort of employment? 

Mr. Gentry. First ? 

Mr. Hitz. Yes. 

Mr. Gentry. I took a part-time job until I could find regular em- 
ployment with a painter as an apprentice or helper. 

Mr. Hitz. Was that your part-time employment or was that the 
employment 

Mr. Gentry. That was part-time employment, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. How long did you have that? 

Mr. Gentry. Roughly 3 weeks or a month. 

Mr. Hitz. Then what did you do? 

Mr. Gentry. I went to work for the Pepsi-Cola Bottling Company, 
the Jacksonville division. 

Mr. Hitz. How long did you work for them ? 

Mr. Gentry. Approximately 2 years, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Until when? 

Mr. Gentry. March of 1964, 1 believe that would be, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Prior to your coming to Jacksonville, had you been a mem- 
ber of any Klan organization ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me and I assert 
my rights not to answer as guaranteed by the fifth amendment of 
the Constitution of the United States. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3841 

The Chairman. If you want, as questions go on, to invoke the 
fifth amendment, it will be sufficient, if the procedure is acceptable to 
you, it affords you the same protection, to simply say that you refuse 
to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

It will save time then for you not to go through the technical state- 
ment. We have this situation and that is the general way of invoking 
the fifth amendment. We are not insisting that you detail your rights 
in the fifth amendment. We understand what you mean. Understand, 
however, that in every case, in order to have the right to invoke the 
fifth amendment, you have to have an honest conviction that you are 
invoking it because you fear criminal prosecution. 

Do you understand what I am trying to tell you ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. After you got to Jacksonville, did you join a Klan 
organization ? 

Mr. Gentry. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Pool. On the grounds previously stated ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Let me ask you a question concerning this claim of 
privilege. Would you be willing to answer that question and a num- 
ber of others relating to possible Klan membership, if it existed, if 
you were not at some subsequent time in this hearing confronted with 
the proposition, the legal proposition, that at that later time you can- 
not claim the self-incnmination protection because you had answered 
these earlier questions concerning Klan activity ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Obviously, you understand my question because you have 
answered it. Are you sure you understand what I have said ? 

In other words, if you would answer this question and certain other 
questions concerning Klan activity, just so long as they weren't later 
held up to you at a time when you feel perhaps more danger to your- 
self in the field of incrimination ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And that these answers will not be held up to you as a 
waiver of a later claim of incrimination on more serious, perhaps, 
matters ? 

Mr. Gentry. Let me see if I understand you, sir. What you are 
saying, in effect, is would I be willing to answer these questions if 
later on in these proceedings they were not held up to me in the form 
of a waiver ; is that what you are saying ? 

The Chairman. We have covered that ground, and I can't be more 
specific than I was. 

Just ask questions. 

Mr. HiTz. Please tell us in what fashion you became a member of 
a Klan organization in Jacksonville, if you did ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you attend any Klan rallies in the Jacksonville 
neighborhood before you joined the Klan ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me. 



3842 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Pool. You are not asking if he was a member of the Ku Klux 
Klan. You are asking if he attended any Klan rallies before he be- 
came a member. 

Can you answer that question ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir ; I can't. 

Mr. Pool. On the same grounds previously stated ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you ever hold any Klavern office in a Ku Klux Klan 
organization in the Jacksonville area ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did ^ou join the United Florida Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground previously stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. Where you assigned to a Klavern No. 508 of the Robert 
E. Lee series of Kiavems ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. HiTz. Let's remember what the chairman said, if it is agreeable 
to you, that if you just say, "I claim my fifth amendment rights" or 
words to that effect, it will do, and we will recognize it. 

If you are satisfied with that, we can shorten that up. 

Did you ever hold a State office in the United Florida Klans ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I claim my fifth amendment rights. 

The Chairman. Were you aware of the existence of the Klan or- 
ganization in or around Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Gentry. Aware, sir ? 

The Chairman. Yes. Did you know that one existed ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes ; I was aware, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Were you acquainted with any of the members of the 
Klan ? Did you know them personally or know any members of the 
Klan in that vicinity ? 

Mr. Gentry. I plead -my fifth amendment rights in reply to that 
question, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Then how did you know^ that there was one that existed ? 

Mr. Gentry. At that particular time, sir, there was quite an ex- 
tensive advertising campaign, we shall say, being carried on by the 
Klan. I don't think even a casual traveler to that city at that particular 
time could have helped but be aw^are that there was Klan activities 
in the area. 

Mr. Pool. Do you want to tell this committee anything else about 
what you knew oi the Klan there or your awareness of it ? Maybe we 
can't think of the right questions, but maybe you can cooperate by 
telling us things that wouldn't incriminate you or tend to incriminate 
you. 

Mr. Gentry. As I stated previously, sir, I don't have a background 
in law and I would be afraid of putting my foot in a bear trap. 

The Chairman. Proceed with the questions. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Gentry, are you informed on the means by which 
the Robert E. Lee Klavern No. 508 in Jacksonville 

(At this point Representative Weltner entered the hearing room.) 

The Chairman. This is a member of the subcommittee, Mr. Gentry. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3843 

Mr. HiTZ. — collected initiation fees, collected dues, provided and 
sold robes, handled reports, communicated with the realm officer, the 
Grand Dragon, who was also the imperial officer ? 

Are you possessed of such information, sir? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you possessed of information regarding special con- 
tributions made by members at the Klavern level for emergency and 
special purposes, having to do with providing bail and other similar 
functions ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you aware of the security precautions that were prev- 
alent at the Klavern level with respect to safeguarding the existence 
and the use of these special funds ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you possessed of information concerning the means 
by which members of Klaverns in the United Florida Klans were car- 
ried and remembered? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir^ I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTz. And security precautions with respect to the safeguard- 
ing of the identity of members? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. Hrrz. Are you possessed of information that there were certain 
members of the United Florida Klans who were relieved of certain 
Klan restrictive responsibilities, such as attendance at meetings, paying 
dues, and otherwise associating in routine Klan activities? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. Hrrz. And that those members were, by and large, charged with 
certain special responsibilities and performed certain special functions 
in the Klan? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you possessed of information that there were a cer- 
tain limited number of persons who had what may be termed a pass- 
port which enabled them, as hidden or otherwise security protected 
members of the Klan, to attend practically any Klan function within 
the United Florida Klans ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you yourself ever possess such a passport within the 
Florida Klans, United Florida Klans? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in reply to 
'"hat question. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you come to know — Mr. Gentry, did you become 
acquainted with a man named Rosecrans ? Did you become acquainted 
with Rosecrans ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in reply to 
this question. 



3844 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you ever engaged as a Klansman in any acts of 
violence ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I plead my fifth amendment rights in answer to 
this question. 

Mr. Hrrz. Were you ever accused of having engaged in such acts of 
violence ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir; I was. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you ever arrested and indicted and tried for the 
Federal offenses of violation of civil rights of others and also for viola- 
tion of rights protected by a Federal court injunction ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I would like to go on record here as saying that I 
don't actually remember the exact wording or anything of that nature 
of the indictment, other than I think probably the best way to put this 
thing under a broad head or two broad heads is that one indictment 
concerned violation of civil rights or a court injunction issued by Judge 
Bryan Simpson, the Federal Court in Jacksonville, Florida, and the 
other indictment was Federal conspiracy charges. 

I was indicted on these charges. 

Mr. HiTZ. More specifically, you were charged in count one of that 
Jacksonville Federal indictment for violation of section 241. That is 
the civil rights charge, the old one. And the other is the injunction 
charge and conspiracy under it, section 1509, both of Title 18, right? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Were you tried in Federal Court in Jacksonville for those 
two charges ? 

Mr. Gentry. I was, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Were you charged twice for those two charges? 

Mr. Gentry. I was. 

Mr. Hitz. Was a man named Rosecrans a defendant along with you 
in the indictment bringing those two charges ? 

Mr. Gentry. He was, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Were others charged in that indictment, besides you and 
Rosecrans, Barton H. Griffin, Jacky Don Harden, Donald Eugene 
Spegal, and Willie Eugene Wilson, a total of six defendants? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Did the first trial of those charges result in a hung jury 
and, therefore, a mistrial ? 

Mr. Gentry. I did, sir. 

Correction on that, sir. It did result in a hung jury. It also resulted 
in an acquittal for one man, a total acquittal, and a partial acquittal for 
myself. 

Mr. Hitz. ^Yho was the one totally acquitted on the first trial? 

Mr. Gentry. Jack Harden. 

Mr. Hitz. Was that first trial in the Federal Court in Jacksonville 
approximately the 6th of August 1964? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Early in August. That might have been the date of 
the return of the hung-jury verdict. Do you happen to know, actually, 
was it the 6th that the jury was hmig? 

Mr. Gentry. I believe that was the date, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. And subsequently were you and the other defendants, 
except Mr. Harden — and you say he was acquitted on both of his 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3845 

counts in the first trial — Avere you and the other defendants, except 
Harden, brought to trial a second time in Jacksonville? 

Mr. Gentry. We were, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And did that trial in the end of November 1964 result in 
an acquittal for all defendants on trial ? 

Mr. Gentry. It did, sir. 

Mr, HiTz. Did the charges brought in the indictment result from 
the alleged participation by the defendants in a bombing of the home 
of a young colored boy who had shortly theretofore been permitted 
under a Federal court order to go to an otherwise segregated school 
in Jacksonville? 

Mr. Gentry, Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. His name being Godfrey, his last name? 

Mr. Gentry. Donald Godfrey. Also named in that was one Mrs. 
lona Godfrey. 

Mr. HiTZ. She was the mother of Donald ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. You, of course, were present, were you not, at the time 
that the petit jurors were selected from the jury panel in the Federal 
court for the first trial ? 

Mr. Gentry. I was, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. At that time, were you represented by attorney Matt 
Murphy ? 

Mr. Gentry. I was, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Andalsoby J. B.Stoner? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. And also by an attorney named Washington ? 

Mr. Gentry. Howell Washington. 

Mr. HiTZ. Matt Murphy had theretofore, and since then, engaged 
in the defense of a number of Klansmen ; had he not ? 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I will have to answer that question on a hearsay 
basis. I really don't know due to the fact that I wasn't present. I had 
heard reports. 

Mr. HiTZ. Answer it on hearsay, that is all right. 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. And J. B. Stoner had also represented Klansmen from 
time to time, had he not, so far as you have information ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And Mr. Washington, your attorney, Howell Washing- 
ton, he was a family and personal attorney for you, was he, or at least 
one 

Mr. Gentry. A personal attorney, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did all three of those attorneys represent all of the de- 
fendants and each of them ? 

Mr. Gentry. They did, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. In the first trial, defendant Rosecrans testified against 
the other defendants, that is, against his codef endants ; correct? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct. 

Mr. HiTz. Was Mr. Rosecrans, as he appeared as a Government 
witness — which is the way in which he testified against the defendants, 
is it not ? 

Mr. Gentry, Yes. 



59-222 O— 67— pt. 5 24 



3846 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HiTz. — was he not represented by the same attorneys who were 
representing you gentlemen who were on trial ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir ; he was not. 

Mr. HiTz. He was not? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Who represented him as he was a Government witness? 

Mr. Gentry, This is at the time of the first trial ? 

Mr. Hrrz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Gentry. I may be wrong, but it was my impression at that par- 
ticular time that he was represented by Mr. J. B. Stoner. 
. Mr. Hrrz. So the picture isn't precisely as my question seemed to 
indicate, but he was represented not by the same lawyers who repre- 
sented the men on trial who are still defendants, but he was represented 
by only one of them ? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. So that Mr. Stoner was representing the Government wit- 
ness defendant, Rosecrans, as well as you four boys who were on trial 
at that time, and against whom Rosecrans was testifying? 

Mr, Gentry. That was my understanding. 

Mr, Hrrz. Who was the Federal judge who conducted that trial ? 

Mr. Gentry. Judge Bryan Simpson. 

Mr. HiTZ. And just to digress a moment, he is the Federal judge who 
issued the injunction which permitted young Godfrey to attend the 
segregated school and required the school officials to accept him as a 
pupil; right? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did Judge Simpson take any precaution with respect 
either to Mr. Rosecrans, the Government witness, or as to any or all of 
you tried defendants to protect them or him against conflict of interest 
in respect to the fact that Mr. Stoner was on both sides of that trial? 

Mr. Gentry, I am not qualified to answer that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you observe any precautions taken by the judge to 
see that there was not a common representation so far as Mr. Stoner 
was concerned, of a Government witness and men on trial ? 

Mr, Gentry. To the best of my knowledge, there was not, sir. I 
remember there being some controversy about this, but I wouldn't 
really know exactly 

The Chairman. A little louder, please, 

Mr. Gentry. I am sorry. 

There was some controversy, I believe — I believe I recall, 

I am sorry, sir, you are asking me to remember things that at that 
particular time didn't have any particular importance. There has 
been quite a time lapse. I was under a very severe strain at that 
particular time and was not too particularly interested with proce- 
dures and things of that nature. 

Mr. HiTZ. All right, sir. 

Now to get back to where we were a little while ago, you were pres- 
ent during the selection of the petit jury from the jury panel in your 
first trial ? 

Mr, Gentry. That is correct, sir. 

Mr, HiTz. And even from there, to go back a little bit, are you 
aware of any procedures adopted by the Klan in respect to evaluating 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3847 

the members of the jury panel that were selected to try the cases in 
that term of court before which your criminal trial came ? 

Mr. Gentry. I plead my rights to the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Let me say this: Thus far, to practically all of 
the questions before the incident of his charge before the court, which 
is a matter of record, this witness has invoked the protection of the 
fifth amendment, which he has a right to do. 

We are now in the realm of questions beyond what is public knowl- 
edge. He again has invoked the fifth amendment. Therefore, nothing 
prejudicial, certainly, has occurred to this point. 

I feel obligated to say to the witness, as I did at the opening of his 
testimony before he testified, that he raised three points with reference 
to apparent conditions under which he might or might not testify 
voluntarily and truthfully under oath. 

As to the first point involved, it was the question of whether or not 
the committee would release his testimony. In substance, more as a 
matter of policy than anything else, the Chair stated that there was 
no such intention. His testimony before us would not be revealed or 
made public. 

As to the other two points, what I had to say is a matter of record. 

In view of the attitude of the witness especially, within his rights, 
invoking the protection of the fifth amendment to all questions ex- 
cept matters of public knowledge, the Chair states this : We are always 
very careful with reference to not releasing executive testimony, and 
to whatever extent it can be said that the Chair, for the committee, 
committed the committee with reference to this witness not to reveal 
the testimony, I must say that the committee is no longer under any 
obligation. 

As a matter of policy, we will pursue good judgment and discretion, 
as always, on the question of propriety of releasing testimony in 
executive session. 

Before any other questions or involvement, and in fairness to the 
witness, I must say that whatever commitment might have been con- 
strued from what I said, it does not now hold. 

Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have any information — I am sorry. 

The Chairman. You are under oath, and we will proceed with the 
hearings. 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you have something you wanted to say ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have information with respect to efforts by mem- 
bers of the Klan and your counsel at the first trial to endeavor to 
secure a sympathetic petit jury for your case? 

Mr. Gentry- I plead m^ rights in regard to the fifth amendment in 
answer to that question, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Are you possessed of information as to — by the way, that 
first jury was undecided and hung on the vote of 10 to convict and 
2 to acquit; am I correct in that? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Are you possessed of information as to whether or not 
there was or was not' a member of the Ku Klux Klan organization to 
which you belonged on the petit jury panel? 



3848 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Gentry. I plead my rights- 



Mr. HiTz. I am sorry, on the petit jury. 

Do you plead your fifth amendment? 

Mr. Gentry. I plead the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. I think I should ask this question, and certainly 
there is no intention of doing away with the confidentiality with refer- 
ence to any action on the part of our investigators. 

I don't know the trend of the questions, Mr. Gentry, by the inves- 
tigators. But I think I ought to ask this question: With reference 
to all these questions that have been asked of you, or any one of them, 
did you answer them and give information to our investigators ? 

By the way, let me say you have a right to invoke the fifth amend- 
ment on that question. 

Mr. Gentry. Before I answer that question, sir, may I ask you a 
question ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gentry. In answering this question, regardless of whether it be 
affirmative or negative or by invoking the fifth, will I in any way 
waive my rights to continue to answer questions in this line? 

The Chairman. We will face that problem when we face it. 

Mr. Pool. If you care to have counsel at this time, we can adjourn 
the committee and give you time to get counsel. 

I think it would be appropriate to give him that opportunity. 

The Chairman. He was offered that three times. 

Mr. Pool. I have reference to the last question. 

Mr. Geistry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply 
to this question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Gentry, are you possessed of information as to 
whether or not there were persons believed, and perhaps known, to be 
sympathetic to the Klan, other than a Klan member, who were seated 
as members of the petit jury in your first trial? 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply 
to this question, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you possessed of information as to whether or not, 
at the second trial, there were seated as members of the petit juiy any 
members of the Klan ? 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply 
to this question. 

Mr. HiTz. And are you possessed of any information that there 
were or were not persons on the second petit jury who were believed 
to be, and perhaps known to be, by counsel for the men on trial, 
sympathetic to the Klan ? 

Mr. Gentry. I will refer again to the fifth amendment in reply 
to this question. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gentry, I want to ask you this question: I 
referred a while ago to any conversations you had with any one or 
more of our investigators, and I indicated, or commented, that I 
wasn't proposing to violate any confidentiality, if any existed. 

Now I feel I must ask you this question : Did any one of our investi- 
gators, and they are now before you, promise you immunity or make 
you any kind of commitments that this, that, or the other would or 
would not happen if you testified ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3849 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Gentry, are you possessed of information, as an al- 
leged former member of the Klan, of certain procedures that were in 
force in respect to acts of violence by individuals in the United 
Florida Klan having to do with the authorization for the commission 
of those acts of violence? 

That is my question. 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in answer- 
to that question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you possessed of information havli^^g to do with a 
committee within a Klavern, which committee might have jurisdic- 
tion a little bit beyond the particular Klavern, the function of which 
committee was to seek to screen certain activities of the members and, 
likewise, to safeguard, through certain security measures that they 
had, the persons who might commit those acts ? 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment in reply 
to that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you ever heard of a group called a klokann com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply 
to that question. 

Mr. Chairman, may I go on record at this point as stating something 
for the record ? 

The Chairman. All right, and then I will rule on it. 

Mr. Gentry. A few moments ago you asked me about any promise 
or grant of immunity, I believe — I don't remember the exact words, 
but things of this nature — in regard to the investigators for this 
committee. 

I would like to go on record at this time as stating that the investi- 
gators for this committee have shown me nothing but the very best 
treatment and there has been no 

The Chairman. I appreciate your saying that. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you Imow a Klansman named Manucy or Manucey ? 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply to 
that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. And particularly of two such persons, a man named 
"Hoss" Manucy? Do you take the fifth on that? 

Mr. Gentry. I do ; yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you, to your knowledge, been under investigation 
for possible participation along with two or more other people in 
connection with the shooting at a colored man named Striggler, a 
member of the Teamsters Union? 

Mr. Gentry. Would you state that question again? 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you ever been under investigation for the shooting 
at a colored man named Striggler, an employee of the Teamsters 
Union? 

Mr. Pool. He would not be an employee of the Teamsters Union. 

Mr. HiTz. I beg your pardon. Thank you. 

A member of the Teamsters Union. 

Mr. Gentry. Sir, I was never in a position, with the exception of the 
times that indictments were brought against me, to know exactly what 
I was being investigated for. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have any information concerning the shooting at 
Striggler ? 



3850 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke my rights to the fifth amendment in reply to 
that question, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have information concerning the situation sur- 
rounding the fact that — well, let me preface that by asking you do you 
know a man named Griflfin, who was a member of the Teamsters Union, 
his name being Barton Griffin ? 

Mr. Gkntry. I know Barton Griffin. I don't know whether he was 
a member of the Teamsters Union or not. 

The Chairman. It is now 12 o'clock, and the quorum call, I know, 
will be coming. 

The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives 
Willis, Pool, Weltner, Ashbrook, and Buchanan.) 

(Whereupon, at 12 :05 p.m. Wednesday, September 29, 1965, the sub- 
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 1965 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :25 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis, 
chairman, presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and 
Ashbrook.) 

The Chairman. The subcommittee will resume its executive hearing. 

I hereby constitute as a subcommittee to conduct the executive session 
this afternoon Mr. Pool, of Texas ; Mr. Ashbrook, of Ohio ; and myself, 
as chairman. 

Let the record show that a quorum of that subcommittee is present. 

Proceed, Mr. Hitz. 

Mr. HiTZ. Thank you. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT PITTMAN GENTRY— Resumed 

Mr. Hitz. Mr. Gentry, did you know a man named Gene Fallaw 
when you were living in Florida ? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Hitz. Did you know Fallaw to have been a Klansman in that 
area? 

Mr. Gentry. I would like to invoke the fifth amendment in reply 
to that question. 

Mr, Hitz. Did you know that Fallaw was one of the leading Klans- 
men in a Klan organization preceding the United Florida Klan 
organizacion? 

Mr. Gentry. Again I invoke the fifth amenament in reply to that 
question, sir. 

Mr. Hitz. Did you know Fallaw to have been sought as a witness 
in the trials against you and the other men for the Godfrey bombing? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Hitz. To the best of your information, is it a fact that the 
Government was unable to locate and serve its subpena upon Fallaw 
to become a witness for the Government at your first trial ? 

Mr. Gentry. No, sir; that is not correct. The information I re- 
ceived was that he had been subpenaed, 

Mr. Hitz. I see. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3851 

Mr. Gentry. I base this on the fact that it is required by law for 
the Government to issue, prior to trial, a list of subpenaed witnesses. 

Mr. HiTZ. And he was on that list? 

Mr. Gentry. That is correct. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did Mr. Fallaw appear as a Government witness at the 
trials? 

Mr. Gentry. No. sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you see Mr. Fallaw sometime fairly close before the 
commencement of the first trial in Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Gentry. Quite a while before ; yes. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gentry 

Mr. HiTz. Could I interrupt just a moment? Before we conclude, 
I do have a couple of questions that will round it out, if you will let 
me when you are through. 

The. Chairman. I want to ask a question. 

Were you involved in any bombing incident? 

Mr. Gentry. I would invoke the fifth amendment in answer to that 
question. 

The Chairman. Did you ever use a gun, shotgun or pistol or rifle, 
to fire at anybody in connection with Klan activities ? 

Mr. Gentry. Would you state that again, sir ? 

The Chairman. Read the question. 

(The question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Gentry. Directly at a person for the intention of harming him ? 

The. Chairman. For any reason. 

Mr. AsHBROOK. Harming or scaring. 

Mr. Gentry. I invoke the fifth amendment in reply to that question. 

The Chairman. Now, you were asked before, but I want to ask 
two questions more. I think you were asked if you ever had been a 
Klansman and you invoked the fifth amendment. Is that correct? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you a Klansman now ? 

Let me say this is not a tricky question. 

Mr. Gentry. It is not a tricky question ? 

No, sir ; I am not a Klansman now. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Gentry, have you engaged in any Klan activities in 
the State of Alabama ? 

Mr. Gentry. I would invoke the fifth amendment in reply to that 
question, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever been in the neighborhood of, in or near 
Birmingham, Alabama, at a time when, to your knowledge, J. B. 
Stoner was also there ? 

Mr. Gentry. I would invoke the fifth amendment in reply to that 
question. 

Mr. HiTz. The Godfrey bombing was in the early morning of Febru- 
ary 16, 1964, actually the night of the 15th, so to speak. Did you 
separate from the Klan at some time shortly after February 16, 1964? 

Mr. Gentry. I would invoke the fifth amendment in reply to that 
question. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you separate from the Klan prior to the arrest and 
charges made against you as a result of the Godfrey bombing? 

Mr. Gentry. Will you please state that question again ? 



3852 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you separate from the Klan prior to your arrest and 
charges growing out of the Godfrey bombing ? 

Mr. Gentry. I would invoke the fifth amendment in reply to that 
question. 

Mr. HiTz. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. The Chair will say this : The committee will stand 
in recess until further call of the Chair. 

Now, Mr. Gentry, you are now under subpena. You realize that? 

Mr. Gentry. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And you are not released from that subpena. I 
hereby extend the effectiveness of the date of the subpena to November 
10. That means that unless otherwise notified to appear either before 
or after that date or not at all, you will report on November 10. 

I want to say to you that I and the committee regret that you saw 
fit to take the position that you did, but that is a matter between you 
and your conscience. It is also, of course, a matter of the protection of 
the constitutional guarantees accorded to you. 

However, because you did not choose to give us information that 
we happen to know you possess, I want you to know that one reason 
for the continuance of that subpena is for your own protection. If a 
Federal subpena has meaning at all, I want to tell you that if as a result 
of your appearance you are threatened or intimidated or harm should 
come to you, if I have any powers of persuasion or influence, that will 
will be the law, the subpena will be strictly enforced as far as I am 
concerned. 

The committee stands in recess- until further notice. 

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess : Representatives 
Willis and Ashbrook.) 

(Whereupon, at 2:38 p.m. Wednesday, September 29, 1965, the 
subcommittee recessed, suDJect to call of the Chair.) 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS 
IN THE UNITED STATES 

Part 5 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 1965 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
CoMMnTEE on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ B.C. 
executive session ^ 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Room 313-A, Cannon House Office 
Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Charles L. Weltner (chairman of 
the subcommittee) presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Charles L. Weltner, of 
Georgia, chairman; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. 
Buchanan, Jr., of Alabama.) 

Subcommittee members present : Representatives Weltner and Ash- 
brook. 

Staff members present : William Hitz, general counsel, and Don Ap- 
pell, chief investigator. 

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order. Without ob- 
jection I will place into the record a copy of the committee resolution 
of March 30, 1965, providing for the conduct of the investigation into 
the Ku Klux Klan and related organizations. 

I will also place into the record the letter of the chairman of this 
committee dated July 28, 1965, directed to the director appointing as 
a subcommittee pursuant to the resolution of March 30, 1965, the fol- 
lowing members of this committee: myself as chairman, Honorable 
John M. Ashbrook and Honorable John H. Bunchanan as members. 

(The documents referred to follow :) 

July 28. 1965. 
To: Mr. Francis J. McNamara 
Director, Committee on Un-American Activities 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
sisting of Honorable Charles L. Weltner as Chairman, and Honorable John M. 
Ashbrook and Honorable John H. Buchanan, Jr., as associate members, to con- 
duct hearings in "Washington, D.C., commencing on or about Wednesday, July 
28, 1965, and/or at such other times thereafter and places as said subcommittee 

1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

3853 



3854 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

shall determine, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the Committee 
on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings concerning the activities 
of the various Ku Klux Klan organi2sations in the United States. 
Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 
Given under my hand this 28th day of July, 1965. 

/s/ Edwin E. Willis, 
Edwin E. Wilus, 
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

COMMITTEE RESOLUTION 
March 30, 1965 

WHEREAS, at the commencement of the 89th Congress the Chairman in- 
structed the staff to commence a preliminary inquiry into the activities of the 
Ku Klux Klan organizations in the United States to assist the Committee in 
determining whether it should authorize an investigation of the Klan organiza- 
tions; and 

WHEREAS, the Committee on February 2, 1965, by resolution, unanimously 
directed the Chairman to continue the preliminary inquiry ; and 

WHEREAS, the Chairman has today made a report to the Committee on the 
results of this preliminary inquiry, which report clearly indicates that the 
nature and scope of the Klan organizations' activities are such that the Com- 
mittee should authorize an investigation ; and 

WHEREAS, the President's recent public appeal also demonstrates that such 
an investigation is justified and necessary ; and 

WHEREAS, the President has offered the full cooperation of the Executive 
Branch of the Government in such an investigation; now therefore, 

BE IT RESOLVED, that the Committee undertake an investigation of the 
various Klan organizations and their activities with the view of holding hearings 
for the purpose of aiding Congress in any necessary remedial legislation ; and 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that inasmuch as the appropriation for the 
Committee's work for this session is not suflBcient to enable it to undertake 
this investigation in addition to other investigations already approved and 
under way, the Chairman is directed to request a supplemental appropriation 
of $50,000 to conduct an investigation of Ku Klux Klan organizations ; and 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Chairman is directed to continue 
the preliminary inquiry into the activities of the Black Muslims, the Minutemen 
and the American Nazi Party previousily authorized by the Committee, for the 
purpose of determining whether an investigation of these groups is called for. 

Mr. Weltner. At this point Mr. Appell will appear as the first wit- 
ness. 

* * * m * iti nt 

[The next witness called was Royal V. Young, Sr.] 

Mr. Weltner. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear that the t-estimony you give in this hearing 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Young. I do. 

( Suiboommittee members present: Representatives Weltner, Ash- 
brook, and Buchanan.) 

TESTIMONY OF ROYAL VIRGIN YOUNG, SR. 

Mr. Hrrz. Mr. Young, ^ive your full name to the record, please. 

Mr. Young. Royal Virgm Young, Sr. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your address? 

Mr. Young. Route 1, McDade, Louisiana. 

Mr. Hrrz. Is that in Bossier County ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3855 

Mr. Young. Bossier Parish. 

Mr. HiTz. Your occupation? 

Mr. Young. Locomotive engineer. 

Mr. HiTZ. For what road? 

Mr. Young. Illinois Central. 

Mr. HiTz. You are active in that work now, are you ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. We will suspend the hearing for a brief recess. 

(A brief recess was taken.) 

Mr. Weltner. Back on the record. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Young, would you state further to identify you and 
then I have some procedural questions to ask. You are active in the 
railroad business and you take trips out of Bossier Parish? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir; I go from Bossier City, Louisiana, to Vicks- 
burg, Mississippi, as my run. 

Mr. HiTZ. Several times a week ? 

Mr. Young. Well, I would say two trips one week, maybe three 
trips the next. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Young, the record will show, and we note, that you 
are not accompanied by counsel today. I want to advise you that you 
have a right to have counsel here as a witness before this subcommittee 
and I would like to know whether you desire to have counsel or 
whether you will expressly waive your right to have counsel here 
today with you. 

Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know whether it would be to my advantage 
to have counsel or not. Would it ? 

Mr. HiTz. What is your wish, since you have the right to have one 
and because, then, of that right you may avail yourself of the oppor- 
tunity to get a counsel here in Washington or to send for one if it does 
not cause too much delay ? We want to know if you want to go for- 
ward without counsel and thereby waive your right, or whether you 
want to avail yourself of the right and obtain counsel. 

Mr. Young. I waive that right. 

Mr. Weltner. The Chair will advise the witness there is no irre- 
vocable waiver of his right to have counsel. If you feel at any time 
during the course of these proceedings that you would like to have 
counsel, then you simply make that right known and your right 
continues. 

If you wish to proceed now without counsel, we will proceed accord- 
ing to your desires. 

Mr. Young. I will proceed now. 

Mr. HiTz. Yesterday you were interviewed by Mr. Appell and my 
self in our office here in Washington ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. At that time we discussed the matter of counsel, and you 
stated that you did not desire to have counsel ; is that right? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you bring a copy with you of a subpena that was 
served upon you by Mr. Appell representing the committee? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Would you produce it, please ? 

(Witness complies.) 



3856 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. HiTZ. When was this served upon you and where, Mr. Young? 

Mr. Young. I believe it was sometime in Jime. The exact date I 
don't remember, but it was at my home. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did Mr. Appell, who sits on my right here, serve it on 
you? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Would you please look at the pink copy which I am 
handing you and tell me whether that appears to be a copy of the 
white copy that was served upon you ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, it looks like a duplicate copy. 

Mr. HiTZ. Before I ask you any further questions, I want to advise 
you that you have available to you here, as you do in most places, 
the privilege against self-incrimination in the Federal Constitution. 
Because of that, you need not answer any question, the answer to 
which you honestly and in good faith believe might furnish a link or 
tend to incriminate you or lead you into a prosecution, either an ill- 
founded one or a proper prosecution, for any crime either State or 
Federal. 

You are no doubt aware of that privilege and generally the scope of 
that privilege ; are you not, sir ? 

Mr. Young. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. As a matter of fact, yesterday in the interview that we 
have already referred to, we went into that several times and at some 
breadth and depth ; did we not ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; you explained it to me. 

Mr. HiTz. I explained it quite fully, did I not ? 

Mr. Young. I have an understanding of it. 

Mr. HiTz. You came here with an understanding anyway of this 
self-incrimination privilege that you have ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; that is right. 

Mr. HiTZ. That abided with you today ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. With respect to this subpena, I would like to read a 

Eortion of it for the record. The first part of it requires you to be 
ere on July 27, 1965, at 10 :30, in the offices of the Committee on Un- 
American Activities, then and there to testify touching matters of 
inquiry committed to said committee. 

Then in addition you are directed by this subpena to bring with 
you and to produce before the committee : 

All records in his possession or under his control relating to the organization 
known as the Original Knights of the Ku Klux 

Can I see your copy ? 
(Witness complies.) 
Mr. HiTz. [Continues reading :] 

— [Klan] of which organization he is the former Imperial Dragon. Such records 
shall include correspondence, financial books of accounts and reports, reports 
received from Dens, Klans or Klaverns of said organization, and minutes of all 
meetings attended by him or which came into his possession by reason of the 
office he held, namely, Imperial Dragon. 

I want to remind you that the subpena is directed to you, Royal V. 
Young, on the top line, as you can observe from your original copy. 
Is that right, sir? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3857 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. HiTZ. Therefore, when the pronoun "he" and the adjective 
"his" is used in what I just read, directing you to bring certain books 
and records, the reference is to you, Royal V. Young. You under- 
stand that? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. I would like to offer the pink carbon copy of the subpena 
into evidence, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Weltner. It will be received. 

(Document marked "Royal Young Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have any of the records with you called for in 
the subpena, Mr. Young? 

Mr. Young. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Why do you not have any of those records, sir? 

Mr. Young. I destroyed them. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlien did you destroy them ? 

Mr. Young. It must have been some time around March of 1964. 

Mr. HiTZ. When you were served with this subpena which your orig- 
inal copy will note — anyway, whenever you were served with it, did 
you have in your possession or under your control, in any fashion 
available to you, any of the documents that were described and covered 
by the subpena? 

Mr. Young. No, sir. 

May I ask one question? 

Mr. HiTz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. By those documents, can you verify that a little clearer 
for me? 

Mr. HiTz. Do you mean the description of them ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Well, the description of the papers and records that are 
contained in the subpena here is what I am asking about. Do you want 
me to clarify that— — 

Mr. Young. Minutes and records and things of that sort ? 

Mr. HiTz. All records at the top of this. Would you look at this 
copy with me? [Reading:] 

All records in his possession or under his control relating to the organization 
known as the Original Knights of the Ku Klux [Klan] of which organization he 
is the former Imperial Dragon. * * * 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; I destroyed all of those records that I had in 
1964. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is there any question in your mind here today about the 
coverage, the scope of this subpena, as to whether or not it might in- 
clude some papers that you did have in your possession at the time 
when Mr. Appell served you with this subpena ? 

Mr. Young. I — no, I don't think so. 

Mr. HiTZ. I asked you that because you — because of what you just 
asked me. 

Mr. Young. The reason I asked that is because they had a piece of 
paper called "Fifty Reasons" and that is just a commercial print. It 
does not pertain to the Klan. It is just the reason why you joined 
the Klan, and I had a few of those. It is just a public form that they 



3858 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

put out, but I don't have any records pertaining to the Ku Klux Klan, 
no, sir ; I destroyed them. 

Mr. Hrrz. You don't have in your mind here today that this sub- 
pena only calls for minutes and certain formal records of that sort? 

Mr. Young. No; I understand what you mean. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Appell is going to interrogate the 
witness on the structure and the organization of the Klan and his 
connection with it. 

Mr. Weltner. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Young, are you now, or have you ever been, a 
member of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. I am not now, I would not say. 

Mr. Appell. Would you answer what you mean by you "would not 
say"? 

Mr. Young. I mean that I resigned, as I went over it with you ; or I 
did not resign, but I became inactive or I gave up. Let's say I did 
not tender a letter of resignation, but I quit taking part in the Klan 
in the first part of 1964. I severed my connection. 

Mr. Appell. When did you first become a member of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I think it was in either the latter part of '60 or 
theearly part of 1961. I am not sure. 

Mr. Appell. Was this the first time you had ever held Klan 
membership ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir; I held a Klan membership in 1924 as a junior 
Klansman. 

Mr. Appell. When you joined the Klan in 1924, to what national 
organization of the Klan were you affiliated ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I think that was the Original Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you maintain a membership in the 
Klan in 1924? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I went away to the Marine Corps in August 1924, 
and I believe I had joined in June. I imagine I never even made a 
meeting. 

Mr. Appell. When did you again join the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Young. In 1961 or 1960. I believe it was the first part of 1961. 

Mr. Appell. What organization of the Ku Klux Klan did you join 
at that time ? 

Mr. Young. The Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Appell. In joining the organization in 1960 or 1961, did you 
make an application for new membership or an application for read- 
mission ? 

Mr. Young. Just a regular application. 

Mr. Appell. Into what Klavern of the Original Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Young. It was in Bossier. 

Mr. Appell. What was the designation of this Klan unit to which 
you were naturalized? 

Mr. Young. That is all I know at that time, the Bossier Klan. 

Mr. Appell. It had no numerical designation within the structure 
of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Young. That I could not say, to tell you the truth, I could not. 
I imagine it was either second or third one at that time. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3859 

Mr. Appell. In the reorganization of the Original Knights in 1960- 
1961, as each Klavern was chartered did they start with the first and 
give it Klavern Number 1 where it was located, Shreveport, and the 
next Klavern Number 2 of whatever area it was located in, and the 
next Klavern, Bossier, Klavern Number 3 ? Is this the way they were 
organized ? 

Mr. Young. There was a procedure ; yes. 

Mr. Appell. That was the procedure. 

At the time that you were naturalized and participated in a naturali- 
zation ceremony, did you subscribe to certain oaths required of you by 
the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I took an oath. 

Mr. Appell. I hand you a copy of an oath, not the one which you 
took, but a copy of those issued to Klansmen. I ask you to examine 
this and to tell us whether or not in substance the oath of allegiance, 
the obedience, secrecy, Klanishness, were similar to the oath to which 
you subscribed ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on that be- 
cause it may come back to something else. 

(Document previously marked "John Swenson Exhibit No. 1.") ^ 

Mr. Weltner. The witness will be advised that the fifth amendment 
enables him to refuse to answer. It is his privilege where he feels that 
the answer may tend to incriminate him or furnish some substance for 
prosecution in a State or Federal proceeding. 

The fifth amendment is not available to the witness on the basis 
that it would cause him to violate any oath which he took. In other 
words, Mr. Witness, you do not have, under the Constitution, the 
privilege of refusing to answer any question on the grounds that it 
would violate any Klan oath or any other oath that you took. 

Mr. Young. Sir, I was not lookmg at it that way. I was looking 
that this may come back on me that I had taken that oath and I may 
be prosecuted some day. 

Mr. Weltner. I wish to make that clear. The witness has every 
right to take the fifth amendment where he feels that it might tend to 
incriminate him. He has no right to take it on the grounds that he 
is taking it on the Klan oath. If that is clear, the witness' refusal 
on the grounds of the fifth is proper and you may proceed. 

[Mr. Appell. Yesterday, in the series of interviews Mr. Young iden- 
tified these as the series of oaths he took, during the naturalization. 

Mr. Weltner. With the consent of the other members I will ask 
that that statement be stricken from the record and if at any time in 
the future it is necessary to call any other witnesses that will be done, 
but at this time we will proceed with the questioning of the witness. 

Mr. Appell. It is the committee's information according to the in- 
vestigation that the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was or- 
ganized in Shreveport, Louisiana, in December 1960. Did you par- 
ticipate in any of the meetings which led up to the reorganization of 
the Original Knights or organization of the Original Knights of the 
Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Young. No, sir. 



1 These oaths similar in form to those used by the United Klans of America, Inc. See 
Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4. 



3860 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Appell. How long after you were naturalized into the Bossier 
Klavern of the Original Knights did you hold an office within that 
organization ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. How long thereafter ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, it could not have been very long. 

Mr. Appell. Were you elected or appointed to the office that you 
held? 

Mr. Young. I was elected to that office ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. You were elected to that office. 

To what office were you elected ? 

Mr. Young. Louisiana division, vice president. 

Mr. Appell. In the structure of the Klavern, the klaliff was the vice 
president ? 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien did the Bossier Klavern hold its election of 
officers ? 

Mr. Young. I think they all held their elections at the end of the 
year. 

Mr. Appell. In the month of December ? 

Mr. Young. In the month of December. 

Mr. Appell. So at the time you were elected to office, were you 
elected as a temporary officer or were you elected as a permanent 
officer to fulfill a term of office of 1 year ? 

Mr. Young. They were starting another Klavern, and I was elected 
as temporary klaliff to that new Klavern. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you hold the office of klaliff? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I could not put down any specified time in number 
of days. 

Mr. Appell. To the best of your recollection, a month, 2 months ? 

Mr. Young. I would say 2 or 3 months, something of that sort, 
possibly more. 

Mr. Appell. At the time you were elected klaliff, or vice president, 
who was the president or, in the Klan called, the exalted cyclops of the 
Bossier Klavern ? 

Mr. Young. Buddy Gibbs. 

Mr. Appell. Buddy Gibbs? 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Other officers within that Klavern in addition to 
klaliff is the secretary, known as the kligrapp. Who held that office 
at the time you were the klaliff ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I would not want to say because I don't rightly 
remember. 

Mr. Appell. Who held the office of treasurer, known as klabee ? 

Mr. Young. The same thing. 

Mr. Appell. You don't remember ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir, I can't, because that has been quite awhile a^o 
and I have seen lots of people and heard lots of names since I was m 
that organization. I would not want to name a man unless I knew 
specifically within my memory. 

Mr. Appell. We don't want you to name a man, Mr. Young, unless 
you remember clearly and distinctly. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3861 

Mr. Young. That is right, that is what I thought. 

Mr. Appell. Another office within the Klavern would be that of the 
klokard or lecturer. Who held that office ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, may I tell you that I don't remember all of the 
officers. 

Mr. Appell. Let me make it simple. What other offices or officers do 
you remember as to the identity of the people who held those offices 
during the time you were klaliff ? 

Mr. Young. I don't remember any of them except that one that I 
gave you. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Young, when you answer as you just have, I want 
to make it clear to you that we would not expect you in your answer 
to, or by making your answer to have been present when these officers 
either took their oath of office, if they did, or were elected or appointed. 
But if they performed the function of the particular offices about 
which we are asking you and you knew they were performing those 
functions, our question would include did they do that, even though 
I repeat you may not have been present when they were elected or 
appointed or sworn in. 

Do you understand what I have just said, that if they performed 
the fimction of the office, that is sufficient to come within the meaning 
of our question? You understand that, sir, do you not? 

Mr. Young. May I answer that in a way that would explain my 
part of it? 

Mr. HiTz. Yes, please do. 

Mr. Young. I was elected to this office but then my duties on the 
railroad at that time — I was on the extra call and I was called out. 
Now I could not say positively that any man served because I did 
not make the meetings for several months, until I was appointed Grand 
Giant. When I was appointed Grand Giant, then I had other duties. 

Mr. HiTZ. So that you are not resorting to any technicality in the 
way you answer ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I would not want to name anybody if I was in 
doubt, and I am in doubt. I don't want to if I am in doubt. If I 
were positive, I would tell you. 

Mr. Appell. Who recruited you into membership into the Klan ? 

Mr. Young. I believe it was Brother Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. Would you identify Brother Swenson fully, by his 
full name? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know his full name. All I know — all I 
can do is give you his initials. 

Mr. Appell. By whatever identities you can give then. 

Mr. Young. It is J. D. Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. At the time that he recruited you into membership, 
what did you know him to be within the Klan organization ? 

Mr. Young. At that time he was known as the Grand Dragon. 

Mr. Appell. To whom did you pay your klectokon or initiation fee 2 

Mr. Young. That was taken in the night I was initiated. 

Mr. Appell. To whom did you pay it? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know. They were hooded. 

Mr. Appell. As a member of the Klavern, what were the dues of 
Klavern membership at that time? 

59-222 O— 67 — pt. 5 25 



3862 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Young. $10. 

Mr. Appell. The dues? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. You are talking about the initiation ? 

Mr. Young. No, I am talking about the initiation fee. 

Mr. Appell. I am now asking you about the dues. 

Mr. Young. The dues to the Klavern would have been $1 a month. 

Mr. Appell. $1 a month. 

Mr. Young. $1 per month. 

Mr. Appell. Now to whom did you pay your dues ? 

Mr. Young. You want me to be truthful. I never paid any dues 
until I was made Grand Dragon because I was not active in that 
Klavern. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you hold the office of klaliff in that 
Klavern ? 

Mr. Young. I was made temporary klaliff and as I said it was 2 
or 3 months, I imagine, because I did not go back, Mr. Appell. I 
could not make the meetings. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you hold the office, no matter how long 
you could not go back ? 

Mr. Young. I suppose there was someone acting at the meetings. 

Mr. Appell. I say how long did you hold it, how long did you con- 
sider yourself to be the klaliff of the Klavern ? 

Mr. Young. Actually I was not the klaliff because I did not serve. 

Mr. Appell. Did you hold an office other than klaliff within the 
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. What other offices did you hold ? 

Mr. Young. I was Grand Dragon. That is the position I was 
elevated to. 

Mr. Appell. How did you become elevated to the position of Grand 
Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. I was appointed. 

Mr. Appell. Who appointed you? 

Mr. Young. Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. At that time what j>osition did he hold ? 

Mr. Young. At that time I imagine he was still the Grand Dragon. 

Mr. Appell. A Grand Dragon in the organization of the Original 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is the mp,n who has charge of a state 
or realm ; is that right ? 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. What were the offices in the chain of command in the 
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at the time you were appointed 
to the position of Grand Giant ? 

Mr. Young. At the time I was appointed ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. I am now only talking about the offices. 

Mr. Young. Who was in that? He was the only one on the na- 
tional or state level as they called it then. 

Mr. Appell. I am only talking about the offices. The only office 
was the Grand Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. That is right because they were just starting back. 

Mr. Appell. Then he appointed you as the acting 

Mr. Young. Grand Giant. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3863 

Mr. Appell. Why did he appoint you as the Acting Grand Giant 
when you were a man who had been in the Klan for just a period of 
6 months or so, never active in your Klavern ? 

Mr. Young. That is up to Swenson ; I could not say. I guess it was 
because I knew the work. I don't know. 

Mr. Weltner. What were the duties of the Grand Giant ? 

Mr. Young. The duties at that time was to serve on the Grand 
Dragon's staff. 

Mr. Weltner. This was not an office such as a vice president or 
secretary or any of the normal offices, but assistant to the Grand 
Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. Vice president and things like that were in the Klavems. 

Mr. Appell. As the organization within the State of Louisiana was 
formed, what other grand offices were created ? 

Mr. Young. What other grand offices were created ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. As I was elevated to the status that you have on this 
subpena, there was another Grand Giant appointed. 

Mr. Appell. I am not talking about that, sir. The Grand Dragon 
and the Grand Giant, what other grand offices were there? Was 
there a Grand Klaliff or secretary on the State level ? 

Mr. Young. Not yet. 

Mr. Appell. When did this take place ? 

Mr. Young. That took place after I became Imperial Dragon and 
tried to straighten it out. 

Mr. Appell, I know it is confusing to you, but it is still confusing in 
my mind. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell asked the witness to relate chronologi- 
cally the offices. Just tell us in your own words. 

Mr. Young. When you start organizing or bring something back, 
regardless of what it is, a company or anything, you grow as you add 
officers. If you have no growth, there are no officers to be added, and 
I imagine they were adding them at that time. 

Mr. Weltner. We understand clearly that the only officer on the 
realm level was Mr. Swenson and he placed you as his assistant. 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Weltner. There were no other offices at that time ? 

Mr. Young. Not at that time. 

Mr. Weltner. Then the organization grew. Could you tell us the 
growth of that and your progression from one office to another ? 

Mr. Young. The other offices that were added when I took place, 
was the Grand Giant in my place. 

Mr. Appell. When were you elevated to an office other than Grand 
Giant? How many months had you held the office of Grand Giant 
until you were elevated to the next office that you held 2 

Mr. Young. Very shortly. 

Mr. Appell. What was the next office that you held ? 

Mr. Young. Imperial Dragon. 

Mr. Appell. What was the relationship to the organization of the 
Imperial Dragon ? Were your responsibilities broader than one State ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; at that one time I guess they had grand illu- 
sions that they would build and the Imperial Wizard was getting 



3864 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S. 

old, I guess, and they appointed me to the Imperial Wizard's position. 
I imagine it is something like a vice president. In other words, they 
have a lot of vice presidents. They have a vice president of this and 
a vice president of that and they made me an Imperial Wizard. 

Mr. Appell. Who reactivated the Original Knights of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Young. Roy E. Davis, Sr. 

Mr. Appell. Where was Mr. Roy E. Davis, Sr., residing ? 

Mr. Young. In Dallas, Texas. 

Mr. Appell. With respect to the Original Knights was his position 
an honorary one, or did he take a position of active leadership from 
Dallas, Texas, into the Realm and Klaverns in the State of Louisiana? 

Mr. Young. Sir, you are asking me a question that I cannot answer 
after taking an oath, because I rightfully could not answer that. I 
know him to be the Imperial Wizard, but if he was made or elevated 
or took oaths I could not say because I rightfully don't know. I sup- 
posed him to be. 

Mr. Weltner. We are not trying to get you to say anything you 
don't know. As in any proceeding, some of the questions you can't 
answer. As in any proceeding there will be questions you can't an- 
swer, but all you need say is you don't know. 

Mr. Young. To my understanding, he was the Imperial Wizard. 

Mr. Weltner. That is all. We are not trying to elicit 

Mr. Young. The question Mr. Appell asked me went broader than 
that. He wanted to know if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt. I 
don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt, sir. 

Mr. Weltner. We are just trying to determine what you know 
according to your best recollection. 

Mr. Young. I could not prove that he is the Imperial Wizard. 
I don't have anything to prove it. 

Mr. Appell. Who appointed you to your position of Imperial 
Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. Roy E. Davis, Sr. 

Mr. Appell. What other officers were there on the imperial level 
besides the Imperial Wizard, Roy E. Davis, and yourself as the Im- 
perial Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. I know of no other officer. 

Mr. Appell. Was there an organizer on the imperial level ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir ; not that I know of. 

Mr. Appell. What organizational title did Mr. J. D. Swenson have, 
whom you also identified as the Grand Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. He was organizer. 

Mr. Appell. Was he an organizer on the imperial level or were his 
organizational responsibilities restricted to the State of Louisiana? 

Mr. Young. It was on a national level. 

Mr. Appell. But he was not considered to be the Imperial Kleagle ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir, because to be an imperial officer — I don't know 
this but I was told this — that you had to be a member of the Klan for 
several years. I don't believe Mr. Swenson came to requirement. He 
had been a national officer. 

Mr. Appell. On the imperial staff level, the only two imperial offi- 
cers that you know of were the Imperial Wizard and the Imperial 
Dragon, which was yourself ? 

Mr. Young. Those are the only two I know, sir. 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 3865 

Mr. Appell. As the organization grew and there became need for 
additional realm or state officers, what offices were created within the 
state? 

Mr. Young. The Grand Giant's office and Acting Grand Dragon's 
office and the Acting Grand Giant's office. 

Mr. Appell. Was there ever created a grand kleagle — a grand kli- 
grapp or secretary ? 

Mr. Young. At that time, there was not. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien was this created to the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. Young. To the best of my recollection it was created after I be- 
came the Imperial Dragon. 

Mr. Appell. When approximately did you become the Imperial 
Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. The first part of 1963. 

Mr. Appell. The first part of 1963 ? 

Mr. Young. That is right, or the latter part of 1962. I am not 
quite sure. 

Mr. Appell. At the time you became the Imperial Dragon and 
created the other realm offices, what other realms or grand offices were 
created ? 

Mr. Young. Mr. Chairman, sir, may I clarify one thing ? 

Mr. Weltner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. These dates, had I known that you needed specific 
dates, I would have tried to refresh my memory otherwise than here. 
Now, when I left this organization, it had been over a year ago. I sev- 
ered my connection and I have never thought of it since. Therefore 
I can't pinpoint the exact dates that I did so and so, or did not do so 
and so. 

Mr. Weltner. We understand that, Mr. Young. We are just ask- 
ing for your best recollection on the matter. 

This committee will stand in recess until 12 :30. 

During that time — we will return at 12 :30 after lunch — if you can, 
Mr. Young, we will ask that you do as best you can to refresh your 
recollection. 

Mr. Young. I have nothing to refresh them with. 

Mr. Weltner. The committee will be in recess. 

(Subcommittee members present : Representatives Weltner, Buchan- 
an, and Ashbrook.) 

(Wliereupon, at 11:15 a.m., Wednesday, July 28, 1965, the sub- 
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 12:30 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 1965 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 12:40 p.m., Hon. Charles L. 
Weltner, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and 
Buchanan.) 

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order. 

TESTIMONY OF EOYAL VIRGIN YOUNG, SR.— Resumed 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Young, just before we broke for a recess because 
of a no quorum call on the floor of tlie House, you made a statement 
to the Chair that, if you had known that we were interested in precise 



3866 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

dates, you would have refreshed your memory in order to have been 
able to supply us with precise dates. 

By what method not available to you here in Washington, but avail- 
able in Louisiana, could you have refreshed your recollection on pre- 
cise dates ? 

Mr. Young. I probably could have tried to get ahold of Mr. Swen- 
son and find out if he knew. That would have taken some doing, but I 
would have tried. But you told me down there at my house, Mr. 
Appell, that you wanted to know the working parts of the organiza- 
tion. I told you I would be willing to tell you that. I did not know I 
was going to have to supply exact dates on when I became an officer, 
because that is quite awhile back, sir. If I told you I was an officer, I 
certainly would not want to hide the date I became the officer. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Young, we are not going to pursue this further. 
I was just interested in the source, but the thing is that when I inter- 
viewed you, you would neither admit nor deny 

Mr. Young. No, sir, I would not. 

Mr. Appell. — that you had ever been the Imperial Dragon. 

Mr. Young. No, sir. I had every right. I did not know who you 
were. You come down there with some credentials you know ; I have 
been served with credentials before that looked good, but they were 
not good. I do — I could not tell who you were really, Mr. Appell, 
imtil you handed me the subpena. 

Then when you handed me the subpena, I told you I would be there ; 
didn't I ? I said, if I can't, I will let you know. I will come early or 
wire you or call you, or something, and find out. 

Mr. Appell. Now, we talked about your appointment as Imperial 
Dragon by Imperial Wizard Roy A. Davis. 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. You told us that after your appointment as Imperial 
Dragon, you attempted to reorganize the State organization of the 
Original Knights and that, thereafter, a complete set of State offices 
were designated and appointments made to them. 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Now would you tell me approximately when this took 
place ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, after I became the Imperial Dragon, it was in a 
period before I became him, it was already established, but there had 
been dissension and breakups. Sir, I don't know any of that. I did 
not want to go into that. The less you know about things, the better 
off you are. I immediately took over, myself, and tried to put an 
organization together. 

I have been in organization work, not in this Klan organization, but 
I have been in unions, and things like that, and done work and helped 
do work and put together organizations. And I know to make an 
organization work, you must have an advisory head. 

So then when I became the Imperial Dragon, I tried to straighten 
out this, and I put together, I let them make the appointments, and 
they appointed this Murry Martin that I told you yesterday. You 
asked me, and I told you 

Mr, Weltner. Appointed whom ? 

Mr. Appell. Murry H. Martin. 



ACTIVrriES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3867 

Mr. Young. To take the place that I had held. 

Mr. Weltner. As Grand Giant ? 

Mr. Young. Grand Giant ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Then were there other State offices created under your 
leadership as Imperial Dragon ? 

iMr. Young. Yes; there was one more- Mr. Martin — he wanted 
an assistant, so he took this Mr. Wilder, Grady Wilder, as his assistant. 

Mr. Appell. Grady Wilder. 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. And Grady Wilder was then designated by Mr. Martin 
to be the Assistant Grand Giant ? 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. Now at the time that you were elevated 
to the office of the Imperial Dragon, did Mr. J. D. Swenson continue 
as the Grand Dragon ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. He was supposed to continue until the first 
of 1964. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. Now at the same time, were other 
State offices created ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Well, when was the office of grand kligrapp created, 
the State secretary ? When was that office created ? 

Mr. Young. You mean — that was created a little bit later. 

Mr. Appell. Well, approximately what time, 1963 ? 

Mr. Young. Yfes, it was in 1963. The first part of 1963. 

Mr. Appell. All right, the first part of 1963. 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. All right now, did they appoint a grand klabee or 
grand treasurer ? An office. Did they create the office of 

Mr. Young. No, no, this same office took care of both treasury and 
secretary. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. 

Now did they also have on a State level a man who would be known 
as the chief of the Klan Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. Young. That came later. Sir, you asked me about that. Not 
before. 

Mr, Appell. When did that come ? 

Mr. Young. That was sometime in 1963. 

Mr. Appell. Sometime in 1963. Now were there any other offices 
of a State level ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir ; I think that fulfills the bill. 

Mr. Appell. How about a grand kleagle ? 

Mr. Young. Now wait a minute. I will refute that statement. I 
don't mean to say that was the end of it. There was an organizer. 

Mr. Appell. An organizer. 

Mr. Young. To help Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. All right. Now in addition to Grand Dragon, did 
Swenson hold another office as National Kleagle? 

iMr. Young. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Appell. So he held two offices. And then he had an assistant 
organizer who was known as the grand kleagle? I guess 



3868 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Young. You see, maybe I can explain that to you, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Please do. 

Mr. Young. In this interim, there was a lot of dissension, and we 
was lettmg temporary officers go until the first of 1964. Then we 
would have created regular assigned offices. You understand what I 
mean? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. But during 1963, we had a lot of trouble, a lot of dissen- 
sion. And, of course, I guess you and Mr. Hitz both can understand 
that. 

Mr. Appell. Now you have identified J. D. Swenson as the tempo- 
rary Grand Dragon. You have identified Mr. 

Mr. Young. Well, he was the Grand Dragon. 

Mr. Appell. Well, Grand Dragon. You have identified Mr. Murry 
H. Martin as the Grand Giant. 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. You have identified Mr. Grady Wilder as the Assist- 
ant Grand Giant. 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Wlio held the position of grand secretary -treasurer ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I would rather not discuss that. I think we went 
into it. And I am sorry, but 

Mr. Appell. Well, on what grounds do you refuse to discuss it ? 

iMr. Weltner. One moment. The Chair will advise the witness that 
he is under a legal compulsion to answer every question to the best of 
his recollection, knowledge, and belief unless he chooses to claim the 
constitutional privilege provided him in the fifth amendment. 

Now, with that advice, I will ask Mr. Appell to put the question 
once again to the witness. 

Mr. Appell. Wlio held the position of grand secretary-treasurer ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, that would involve me later, and I wish not to dis- 
cuss it. I would like to invoke the fifth amendment on that, if I may. 

Mr. Weltner. Very well. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appeljl,. All right. Now who headed the position of — fulfilled 
the position of chief of the Klan Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, that was knowledge, and I agreed to it, Robert 
Fuller. 

Mr. Weltner. Thank you. 

Mr. Appell. Robert Fuller? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Who is Robert Fuller? 

Mr. Young. Sir, he is a man. Tliat is all I can tell you. And the 
position, I did not go into the background or anything else. Well 
when an officer was appointed to me, he was — I could not tell you 
whether he was a saint or what he was, sir. I am sorry. 

Mr. Appell. Where was he from ? 

Mr. Young. He was from Monroe, Louisiana. 

Mr. Appell. What was his employment? 

Mr. Young. That, I could not tell you that. I believe that he was 
in the septic tank business. 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Now did Mr. Robert Fuller have an assistant 
to him such as Mr. Martin had to him ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. 3869 

Mr. Young. Sir, if he did, I know naught of it. That was not— 
I did not go into things like that, with the position I held. They was 
entitled to, if they wanted. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Charlie Pearson ? 

Mr. Young. Charlie Pearson. I met him one time, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know him to be the assistant chief of the Klan 
Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I was told. I could not prove it or anything else. 

Mr. Appell. Who was the grand kleagle? 

Mr. Young. The grand kleagle we have already discussed that. It 
was Houston P. Morris. 

Mr. Appell. I thought we discussed him as the National Kleagle. I 
am asking you about the 

Mr. Young. The grand and the national — understand, let me ex- 
plain that now. The national sir, would have been the grand officers 
of each State, if we had been able to build them. They would serve 
as national officers. There was not national staff, because there was 
no other States. As it later come out, as Mr. Appell will bring out, 
Mississippi, but to no avail. 

Mr. Appell. All right, now did Mr. Swenson have assistant orga- 
nizers working mider him ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, if he did, I did not know who they were. He had 
Houston. He had Houston P. Morris, as I explained before. That 
was the grand kleagle, and Mr. Swenson was the National Kleagle. 

Mr. Appell. Well, that is 

Mr. Young. That is all I can tell you about that. 

Mr. Appell. Now on a State level did they have another office of 
grand chaplain ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. And who fulfilled the office of the grand chaplain ? 

Mr. Young. Jack D. Young. That was the only executive function 
he had, was as chaplain. He knew nothing of the State organizational 
work and he had nothing to do with it; he was merely a chaplain at 
the national meetings. 

Mr. Appell. Well, due to the fact, Mr. Young, that I know that Mr. 
Jack Young is your brother 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. — I would like to ask you, to your knowledge, whether 
Jack Young is presently affiliated with any Klan organization to 
the best of your knowledge ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir. When I stepped down, my brother and Mr. 
Swenson and Mr. Morris stepped down. When I stepped down, they 
quit their activities. 

Mr. Appell. Well, now, the committee's investigation establishes 
that Mr. Houston P. Morris continued Klan affiliations. 

Mr. Young. Sir, I know nothing of that. It is only hearsay on my 
part. I heard that he went forward. I coaild not say. I cannot swear 
if he did. 

Mr. Appell. Yes, but you just said that Mr. Morris, like your 
brother, ceased his Klan activities. 

Mr. Young. They told me they were, but now I know beyond a 
shadow of a doubt that my brother and Mr. Swenson did, as far as I 
am concerned, in the State of Louisiana. 



3870 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Now what Mr. Morris did, I cannot say. 

Mr. Appell. Now towards the end of 1963, would you say that the 
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had reached its peak strength 
as far as you are concerned ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir; it had reached its peak strength and its ex- 
tinction as far as I am concerned. I tried to hold it. 

Mr. Appell. Now prior to December of 1963 and its reaching its 
peak strength, did Mr. Swenson or any organizer of the Original 
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan go across the river into Mississippi and 
organize Klans into the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Young. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Appell. Can you tell this committee approximately how many 
Mississippi ans were naturalized into the Original Knights of the Ku 
Klux Klan? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I could not tell you. I might give you a guess, 
my guess, but I could not state any number. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir, would you 

Mr. Young. Not knowing, I don't know. 

Mr. Appell. Would you give us your guess on the basis of the office 
that you held ? 

Mr. Young. I would say that he had started maybe one or two 
lodges. 

Mr. Appell. He started 



Mr. Weltner. Wliat was the answer ? 

Mr. Young. Or three, maybe. I don't know. 

Mr. Appell. Started one or two lodges. 

Mr. Weltner. One or two Klavems ? 

Mr. Young. That is about right ; yes. 

Mr. Appell. Would you say that the membership that he had re- 
cruited was as high as 300 ? 

Mr. Young. I would not think so. I would make it around 150, 
maybe, a start. 

Mr. Appell. I am talking about, now, December 1963, when you were 
at your peak ? 

Mr. Young. No ; I would not say he had that many. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. Now when you were at your peak in 
December 1963, about how many Klaverns were there in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Young. I would say there was about three finished, maybe four 
or five started. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Appell. So that either in a chartered stage or in a preliminary 
stage, there were approximately nine Klaverns ? 

Mr. Young. I would say eight or nine, probably. 

Mr. Appell. Eight or nine. Now with the creation of Klavems in 
the State of Mississippi, did the Original Knights create a Realm of 
Mississippi ? 

Mr. Young. Well, they are not supposed to create a realm in the 
working of the old Original until they have as many as five completed 
units. But we did appoint a temporary Dragon of the realm. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. 

Now let me ask you, under the Constitution and bylaws of the Orig- 
inal Knights, how many members had to be naturalized before a 
Klavern could officially receive a charter ? 



ACTIVmES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3871 

Mr. Young. Fifty. 

Mr. Appell. Fifty. Were exceptions made to that ? 

Mr. Young. In some cases. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. Now who did you appoint as the tempo- 
rary Grand Dragon for the Realm of Mississippi ? 

Mr. Young, He was appointed by Brother Swenson. It was Doug- 
las Byrd. 

Mr. Appell. Douglas Byrd. Now did Mr. Swenson or yourself ap- 
point any other realm officers in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Young. Not that I know of. Now Mr. Swenson may. He was 
organizer. Now until the realm is established, my office would not 
interfere as an Imperial Dragon. I would not go into anything, or 
try to deal — ^to delve into anything. My office was to see that it was 
carried out executively, not organizatioii^l work. I have no idea of the 
organizational work at all, and that is an organizational stage, to 
create offices as it grows. 

Now whether Brother Byrd or Mr. Byrd had helpers or assistants, 
I have no knowledge. In fact, I would not have known the names, if he 
had them. That would have been realm business. 

Mr. Appell. Well, now let me bring this up to you in this record, 
because many things we repeat on this record, although we discussed 
them yesterday, we do it for the benefit of the committee. 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. According to the cormnittee's investigation, on Decem- 
ber 28, 1963, you as the Imperial Dragon of the Original Knights of 
the Ku Klux Klan revoked the conrniission of Edward Lenox 
McDaniel. 

Mr. Young. I heard that. You told me that yesterday. 

Mr. Appell. And banished him from your organization, the Origi- 
nal Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. The notice which you issued 
charged McDaniel with being guilty of slandering and threatening 
the heads or leaders of the Klan, and also of committing treason by 
exciting and recommending a revolt against the principles of the old 
Original rules and regulations. 

Mr. Young. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Could you revoke the commission of a man who did 
not hold an office ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, may I explain that? 

Mr. Appell. Please do, sir. 

Mr. Young. As an Imperial Dragon, I sat over it, supposed to sit 
over the national board. In other words, you names the State officers 
that sit with me, that I had appointed. This was brought to me, sir. I 
don't go out and know this. 

The accusation was brought against these two men, and I sit like the 
chairman of your committee. I listen to the accusations brought 
before me, and that I am asked for banishment procedures. I sign 
the letters. 

Mr. Appell. All right. Now other than from any independent 
knowledge 

Mr. Young. But knowing this McDaniel, I still don't know him. 

Mr. Appell. Do you remember signing the order to which I referred 
and which was dated December 28, 1963 ? 



3872 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

Mr. Young. The banishment ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. I signed that order ; yes. 

Mr. Appell. All right, did you also sign one for Douglas Byrd ? 

Mr. Young. I just got through stating that those two men there 
was brought before me. 

Mr. Appell. How were they brought before you ? Physically ? 

Mr. Young. No, sir ; in conversation, merely. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. Now in December 1963 

Mr. Young. In fact, let me say this. I cannot swear, as you asked 
me at the committee meeting yesterday, that they were even Klansmen, 
because I never seen them take the oath. But I super — supposed they 
were, going with the three officers that I knew to be with them, but 
as I took an oath today to tell you the truth, sir, I could not get on any 
stand in God's world and tell you they were Ku Klux Klansmen. I 
could not. 

Mr. Appell. Well, let's see if we can develop that a little bit, Mr. 
Young. 

Mr. Young. I told you the same thing yesterday, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. In December 1963 or prior thereto, there had been great 
dissension within the Original Knights, relating to charges on the part 
of some group of the membership against certain officers, with respect 
to the irregularity of funds. Is this a fact, sir ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; that was a fact. It was brought to my atten- 
tion, and that is the reason why I taken over and tried to straighten 
that out. 

Mr. Appell. All right, sir. 

Mr. Young. But it is still to no avail. There was a power purge. 
Somebody wanted more power. 

Mr. Appell. All right. 

Mr. Young. They carried it on through, and it finally came to a 
breakdown. 

Mr. Appell. All right. Now it came to a breakdown. 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Now what were the charges being leveled by this dis- 
senting faction against the constituted leadership of the Original 
Knights? 

Mr. Young. Sir, it is very comical. One of the charges, the main 
charge, that caused all the trouble — and as far as I am concerned, it 
should not have been ; if I had anything to do with it, it never would 
have been — was the manufacture of robes. 

Mr. Appell. Would you explain that ? 

Mr. Young. There is no explaining to it. Some people wanted to 
take over the manufacturing of the robes, and one man had it, and 
that was it. That is the only thing I can tell you. Power purge. 

Mr. Appell, Now, who was the man that had the jurisdiction of 
the manufacturing of the robes ? 

Mr. Young. Everyone in the United States knows that, and also 
your investigators. Mr. Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. Well, may we go off the record a second ? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Weltner. Back on the record. 



ACTIVmES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3873 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Young, did Mr, J. D. Swenson have what we shall 
call the robe concession ? 

Mr. Young. Yes, sir ; he did. 

Mr. Appell. He purchased the material ; he had the robes manu- 
factured 

Mr. Young. He had them so delivered, I imagine. 

Then he sold them to the membership. 

Well, now how he did that, Mr. Appell, I can only answer this. He 
did have the concession; that he got the money, I am sure he did. 
How he distributed the money, or how he got it, I can't truthfully tell, 
because I don't know. That was none of my business to start with. 
That was not under my jurisdiction. I was told it was not under my 
jurisdiction. Therefore, I did not delve into it. 

Mr. Appell. Who told you it was not under your jurisdiction? 

Mr. Young. The Imperial Wizard and that gave him the concession. 
He was a grand officer before I ever became a member, back this time. 

Mr. Appell. Were all the charges leveled against J. D. Swenson, or 
were some of the charges leveled against you ? 

Mr. Young. They were leveled against me also, because I took up for 
Mr. Swenson. 

Mr. Appell. Did this dissenting faction within the Original Knights 
also make charges against you with respect to the handling of finances? 

Mr. Young. That, sir, was the minor. The major that was brought 
to my knowledge, was that I would not act as a real leader. Now, 
whether it was others wanting my position or not, I do not know, but 
they said that I was an incompetent leader and that I would not let 
them do things they wanted to do. I don't know what they were talk- 
ing about. 

Mr. Weltner. Well, let's inquire, Mr. Appell, as to just what the 
dissenting group felt would be the proper activities of leadership in 
this area. 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir ; did you hear the question of the chairman ? 

Mr. Young. Percentage? 

Mr. Appell. No ; in what manner did the dissenting faction believe 
that the office of the Imperial Dragon should be handled, and how 
should their proper leadership be carried forward ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I would say at that time around 30 percent. Now 
these different Klavems had been visited by these officials. 

Mr. Appell. Now, when you are talking about "these officials" you 
are talking about the dissenting officials? 

Mr. Young. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Young. And they did not withdraw at that time, but they held 
their funds. In other words, the funds that they were supposed to 
send in. Then I had to travel and try to explain to them that we could 
not go, unless we remained together. I did. I tried to hold it together. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Young, what did the dissenting group feel was 
the proper program ? WTiat kind of activities did they want you to 
lead them into ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I don't know. I will decide, and show you one 
incident that might suffice. They wanted to bum crosses .at the polls 
at the election in 1963, and I put out specific orders that was to be 



3874 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 

mled out because I did not believe in intimidation of the voters. I 
might believe in segregation, sir, strongly, because I was raised that 
way. But I believe in equal facilities, or equal rights, but separate 
facilities. I would no more intimidate anybody to keep from voting 
and I put that, pulled that order down, and that was one of the 
biggest arguments. 

Mr. Weltner. Did you consider the act of burning the cross in and 
of itself to be an intimidation ? 

Mr. Young. I did. I figures that there was some people might see 
those crosses and fail to go to vote. 

Mr. Wei/tner. Wliat people specifically ? 

Mr. Young. I don't know. Anybody. 

Mr. Weltner. Was that — was your ban on cross-burning at the 
polls the only gromid for quarrel over your leadership ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, as far as I am concerned, that was the only major 
quarrel that I had in my cabinet. Now there was other rumors. I 
can't say what they were; I don't know. But I think that there was 
some in my cabinet that wished to take over. 

You know, when you are trying to organize anything, they don't 
care who does it, or whose expense it costs to do it, but after you g&t 
something almost on its feet, there is people that want to take over. 

iSir, that is natural. And that is exactly what happened in this 
incident. 

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Young, is it your feeling that some of your 
people felt you were not active enough in Klan activities ? 

Mr. Young. That probably might have been it. 

Mr. Weltner. Well, was lihere any ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, I am a railroad man. I have to make a living. 
I had no money and no finances behind me. 

Mr. Weltner. I mean, was that the quarrel with you, that you were 
not enough of an activist in Klan matters ? 

Mr. Young. That would have been one of them ; yes. 

Mr. Weltner. And one of the examples of this was your ban on 
cross-burning at the polls in the election of 1963 ? 

Mr. Young. That is it. 

Mr. Weltner. Was there any other instance where they claimed 
you lacked leadership, failed to let them act? 

Mr. Young. No, sir ; there was not, that I know of. I tried to be 
a good leader and hold it equally right, within righteousness. 

Mr. Appell. Who were the leaders in this faction against you ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, this was the Murry Martin and Mr. Wilder. 

Mr. Appell. What other officers participated in this faction? 

Mr. Young. That I would not know. 

Mr. Appell. Did Kobert Fuller? 

Mr. Young. I can't say that he did. I have no proof that he did. 
Within my common knowledge, I believe that he did. 

Mr. Appell. You believe that he did ? 

Mr. Young. I believe that he did, but that is all. 

Mr. Appell. Now at the time this faction was brewing, what do 
you estimate to be the membership of the Original Knights in 
Louisiana? 

Mr. Young. At that time the trouble started, and at the time that 
it dropped ? 



ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE IT.S. 3875 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mr. Young. I would say around 2 — maybe 2,300. Maybe 2,000 or 
2,300.