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Full text of "Alachua Portrait : the living heritage project [8]"

r APA 



REF-FLA 
975.979 
ALA 
1999 










"ALACHUA PORTRAIT: The Living Heritage Project" 



Sponsored by the Florida Endowment for the Humanities, 

and the City of Alachua. 





lUlQHiiL 




Project Director: Sudye Cauthen 

Humanities Consultant: Allan Burns 

University of Florida, Oral History Program 
Oral History Consultant: Samuel Proctor, Director 
Typing, editing, and printing of transcripts: 
Oral History Program Staff 

Special Consultants to "ALACHUA PORTRAIT:" 
Frank Martin Cellon and Vada Beutke Horner 






ALACHUA PORTRAIT FORUM #8 

"CONTINUITY THROUGH THE GENERATIONS" 

OCTOBER 6, 1983 

VICES IN ORDER OF FIRST SPEAKING: 

B: Allan Burns, Ph.D., Humanities Consultant 

C: Tim Check, Panel Moderator-City of Gainesville Safety Office 
SC: Sudye Cauthen, Project Director - "ALACHUA PORTRAIT" 

I: Mary Elizabeth Knight Irby, panelist/retired schoolteacher 
WI : Will Irby, III, panelist/son of Mary Elizabeth Knight Irby 
RS : Rod Smith, speaker from audience/local attorney 
H: Martha Richard Hagan, panelist/tradition bearer 
0: Ethel Phillips O'Dea, community resident - 

schoolteacher/speaker from audience 
L: Alex Lundy, panelist/tradition bearer 
T: Glen Dexter Tyson/grandson of Alex Lundy, panelist 
M: Mary Lou McFadden, teacher/farmer - speaker from audience 
LT: Lucille "Nicky" Taylor, Baha'i Spokewoman; speaker from 

audience 
VH: Vernon Hill, Farmer of "God's Country , "/speaker from 

audience 
EH: Evelyn Holland, Mayor-Commissioner, City of Alachua/speaker 
from audience 
U: Unknown 

Due to the limitations inherent in transcribing these audio 
tapes, there may be misspellings of proper names and geographic 
locations. The language has been reproduced as accurately as 
possible, however, ther were some problems with the quality of 
the sound. 



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Digitized by the Internet Archive 

in 2011 with funding from 

LYRASIS Members and Sloan Foundation 



http://www.archive.org/details/alachuaportraitl81999unse 



When we designed this project, we designed ten community forums, 
ten town meetings, and Sudye Cauthen and I crossed our fingers 
that we might get some people to the first two or three meetings, 
but if it keeps going, we would really be lucky. Well, we have 
been more than lucky. We have been beating the odds. We have 
gotten lots of you folks to come to many of our different forums. 
I think that says something about Alachua. It says that you are, 
and other people are, interested in the town, interested in the 
history of the town, interested in the traditions of the town. I 
think our panels, our town meetings are going quite well and I am 
very pleased with them. I am hearing from other folks in the 
community that it sounds like something that this town should be 
proud of. Something that makes this town, I think, something 
special, a special place; different than a lot of other places. 
In some of my research on other southern towns, I have noticed 
the divisions often in small towns in the South are so great that 
people do not come together, and, again, I am pleasantly 
surprised about Alachua and that people do come together. They 
will talk about things that are enjoyable, about the past. They 
will talk about problems. They will talk about things about the 
future without reticence. I think that is a real strength of a 
town like Alachua. Well, tonight, we are going to be talking 
about what is between the generations. 

Ms. Cauthen and I, when we were discussing the different topics 
for the town meetings, we kept thinking there ought to be one 
where we really look at the problems and the prospects and the 
issues of older people and younger people. That is of concern to 
the people. Also when we started talking about this, I was 
reminded of an anthropology teacher that I once had the pleasure 
of meeting: Margaret Mead. Margaret Mead worked on Samoa in the 
1920s and worked all over the world. I think Margaret Mead 
always said it was grandparents and grandchildren that were the 
key link in culture. 

Think about our own lives. We learn from our parents. We learn 
how to sit straight at the table. We learn how to finish the 
food on our plates. We learn how to get up and go to school 
everyday. These kind of everyday things. But our grandparents 
are special people. They are the people who teach us that there 
is something extra about life, about culture, and about society. 
They tell us the family stories. They tell us who we are and how 
we became what we are. They have a special warmth and a special 
perspective about life that sometimes our parents do not. 

I know as a parent, I am constantly complaining about my 
daughter's school work or my son not wanting to go to soccer and 
I often do not get a chance to kind of stand back and tell the 
kids how much we love them and what we wish we could tell them. 
Grandparents can do that, because they are special people. They 
do not have those day-to-day concerns and yet they are very close 
to people. Grandchildren, as well, have a special relationship 
to grandparents. They are people that you can look up to as 
having been through a lot, as having gone through some awfully 
tough times. People coming up now, their grandparents were the 



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ones who went through the Great Depression in the 1930s. Their 
grandparents are the ones who went through integration. Their 
grandparents are the one who have seen changes, that perhaps we 
will never see. The advent of television, automobiles, 
electrical appliances, things that have really radically altered 
our lives. Their grandparents are the ones who know about the 
wars in this country. That is a special kind of knowledge that 
we often do not get a chance to get from our parents, but we can 
get it from our grandparents. That is a special thing about 
them. I think, too, in a sense of Alachua as a community, the 
grandparents and the grandchildren are important dimensions. 

Young people today do have a hard time. There are problems with 
finding out who you are. There are problems with learning about 
people from the opposite sex. There are problems with the 
onslaught of worldwide problems which seem sometimes to overwhelm 
us at times. It is very difficult for young people today. When 
we look to our grandparents and look what they have gone through 
and what they have to say about growing up in Alachua, we can 
have a steady post to hang onto. We can have something that 
gives a little bit of security, gives us a little bit of a sense 
that we are important and we are somebody here in Alachua. The 
other day I was talking with Letha DeCoursey. She is a 
grandmother and she was talking to me about what her grandparents 
told her in the olden days and what went on in Newnansville and 
Alachua in the late 1800s. I think those are kinds of magical 
moments that almost look back through hundreds of years of 
history right down to today. I think this panel tonight is 
special because we hope we can capture some of that magic of 
history, magic of who we are as Alachua and we hope we can 
capture some of the wisdom of the old people, some of the wisdom 
back and forth. As always, I encourage people from the audience 
to please ask questions of individual panel members as they talk. 
To add to the discussion about who we are and what we are and 
where we are going, I hope you all do that. At this point, as 
usual, I will turn the panel introduction task over to Mr. Tim 
Check and then we will begin our discussion for this evening. 

Welcome tonight and instead of introducing the panel myself 
tonight, I would like to ask Sudye Cauthen to introduce the 
panelists. As you all know, she is the one that is really 
responsible for putting this whole program together. 

Dr. Burns is looking for an increase in his fee, and evidently, 
Tim wants to get on the payroll. I will be brief. Like some of 
you in the audience, where I come from is what I start with when 
I begin to explain myself to people. I would love to have an 
afternoon's conversation with each one of these people. I am 
just so excited that they are all here together and I plan to ask 
them questions. Between them, they know a lot about this place 
and a lot about what this place has to do with who they are. 
Mary Elizabeth Knight Irby comes from the DuBose family who 
pioneered this area. Her son, Will Irby, writer, dramatist, 
storyteller, and native son. He is living in Chiefland now. 



Martha Richard Hagen grew up stuffing sausage and grinding cane, 
and is still doing it. She is going to tell us in her own words 
why it has meaning for her. Actually, Martha's talk is entitled 
"Martha Speaks Her Piece," in case she forgets to tell you. 

This is Alex Lundy. Mr. Lundy raised a family and twenty 
grandchildren and one great-grandchild in Alachua. He speaks 
poetry. He is the grandfather of Glen Tyson. This is the Glen 
Tyson, grandson of the poetry speaker who grew up to become a 
minister at Old Jerusalem Baptist Church in Monteocha. There 
they are. 

What we are going to do tonight, instead of starting at one end 
of the table and working all the way through, or starting at that 
end and working down here, we are going to scatter it around a 
little bit, and start off with Mrs. Irby. 

I thought at first that I would not do this at all. When Sudye 
first mentioned this to me, I said I would not. But then, I 
think a lot of Sudye and I think a lot of her mother who is a 
very special friend of mine and I said, "Well, I will think about 
it." Well, the more I thought about it, the more I knew that 
perhaps I could bring a real, special and unique understanding of 
Alachua to this forum. Sudye asked me to discuss what values 
from our past are important and how we can transmit those values 
to new generations. I am going to address those two questions as 
they relate to just one family. Alachua has always been a part 
of me. I did not grow up here, but my father did. His mother 
did, my grandmother, and her parents did. My great, great- 
grandfather, a French immigrant, came here in 1840. My great 
grandfather was born here in 1846. My grandmother was born here 
in 1873 and my father was born here in 1898. Of course, I never 
knew my great grandparents, Elijah DuBose, but I know that they 
came here with scarcely more than determination and faith and 
they worked hard and they raised their family with love in a 
Christian home. Their son, James DuBose was my great grandfather 
and he grew up on a farm, probably out on the Bellamy Road, the 
best I understand. He farmed the family land with his wife, 
Mahalia Pinkson. They raised twelve children, the second of 
which was my grandmother, Mary Frances DuBose. Mary Frances, 
too, grew up on the farm but when she married my grandfather, 
Charles Knight, a railroad man from Charleston, they moved to 
town to raise their family of four children. Their second son 
was my father, Jesse Knight, and this family lived in what is now 
the John Hugh Dew House. My father grew up here, went to school 
here, went to church here, and went to work for the railroad 
here. He married my mother here and my mother was a 
schoolteacher in Trenton and that is where he met her and my 
mother's people were pioneers from the Thomas Williams family in 
the Red Level area of Crystal River. His work took my parents 
away before I was born and circumstances kept them there for many 
years. But finally they did return to live their lives out here. 
I was born and grew up in this time spent away from home in 
Alachua. The boom years were spent in Palm Beach among the 
glamour and the glitter of the Flapper Era. 



The depression years were spent in Bradenton and the World War II 
years were spent at school in Tallahassee. During all of these 
times, we made trips home. We came by car and what I remember 
most about coming by car was a new road through a tall pine 
forest. It was like going down a hall. I can remember as a 
child looking down these long halls of pine trees and newcut 
roads through there. We came by train sometimes and sometimes we 
stayed with relatives. Sometimes we stayed at the Skirvin 
Boarding House and if you do not know where that was, it was down 
near the railroad tracks, down near Enneis Ford place. We came 
to visit our family and to visit old friends that my parents 
cherished more than any others they had met anywhere. We came to 
help with cane grinding and hog killing. We came to the family 
reunions. While I am talking about family reunions, I just got 
today in the mail, a family reunion notice. DuBose Family 
Reunion will be Sunday, October the 23rd, 1983, at Camp O'Leno. 
It has been years and years, and I cannot tell you how many there 
have been, but I am sure there was way over fifty of them. We 
came to weddings and funerals and summer picnics at Burnett's 
Lake. Winter feasts served off farmhouse hearths, stoves by the 
wood fire, and we came when it was time to pick tobacco, harvest 
melons, pick corn, and go to the market. No matter where we 
lived, it was always thought of as a temporary residence because 
someday we would be going back home. So it was that my father's 
standard answer to "Where do you folks live?" was "Well, we are 
staying here right now, but our home is Alachua." As I got 
older, the word "home" began to take on a real meaning for me. 

When we were in Alachua, "home" was just wherever you were. It was 
out at the farm. It was at the church. It was sipping lemonade 
and eating grape hull pie on my Aunt Clara Stephens' front porch. 
It was down at Willie's barbershop, Braswell's Dry Goods Store, 
Haisten's Meat Market, Joiner's Drug Store, or at the post 
office. It did not matter. "Home" was all over. People lived at 
home places. To a girl who had grown up among the rich and 
famous in fashionable Palm Beach, with the tin can tourists in 
Bradenton and had spent the World War II years at Florida State 
College for Women, Alachua was a very special place. I was not 
naive, however, I knew, because I had listened, all of those 
years, that Alachua was not all good. That all of the people 
were not always good. But my daddy always said that there were 
more good kind loving people here than anywhere else he had ever 
been. He would say, "This is my home and these are my people." 
It became my home, too, and they became my people. When the war 
was over, my parents realized their dream and moved back home to 
Alachua to stay. After college graduation, I came home to 
Alachua to live for the first time. Immediately, I liked it 
because of the wonderful extended family atmosphere. The warmth 
and the concern almost everybody felt for each other, for the 
appreciation of work and for the quality and meaning the people 
brought to everyday living. I asked for and got a job teaching 
third grade at Alachua Elementary School. I now became a 
native. A year later, I married another native of Alachua, Bill 
Irby, who I had met during my college days. For a time, we had 



to leave Alachua as Bill's coaching job took us to teach in 
Orange County. After Will was born, we felt we had to come back 
to Alachua to make a home place for Will, and later for his two 
brothers and his sister because we felt this was the very best 
place we knew of to rear a family. We became again a part of the 
community, the Alachua School, and this time with real purpose. 
We tried to give our children a real old-fashioned home. Love 
and care and a balance of work and play. We did not want them to 
live in the past but we did want them tied to the past by a 
knowledge of their family history, family customs, traditions, 
and the abiding continuation of a Christian home, patterned out 
years ago by their forebears on both sides of the family. We 
knew we had succeeded in our mission and Alachua had once again 
worked its spell, when Will went away for three years of naval 
duty in Italy, and every letter he wrote home began, not "Dear 
Mom and Dad," not "Dear Family," and not "Dear Folks," none of 
those endearments. Every letter began "Dear Home." After all of 
these years, we still like Alachua because as it has grown and 
changed, it has remained a family-oriented community. It is 
still a quiet, safe place to live compared to most other places. 
It is ideally located between both the east and west coasts, and 
it is close to 1-75. That is important to us because we like to 
go to North Carolina. It is about a twenty minute drive to the 
University of Florida and all of its resources. There are nearby 
rivers and lakes and recreation areas. It is far enough north to 
have a change of season. Alachua is still a caring community in 
which the churches play an important role. More importantly, we 
like it because we have invested so much of ourselves in its 
future through its children. The true Alachua, let me repeat 
that now, the true Alachua, has endured in this family through 
seven generations. From my great-great-grandfather to my two 
grandsons, spanning a hundred and forty years. The true Alachua 
will always exist but it will only exist in the hearts of those 
families who live here and want for their children, a place to 
call "home." 

It is certainly difficult to follow those beautiful words of Mrs. 
Irby, so because of that, we will ask for Will's comments. 

I think that in continuum, which is tonight's theme, there is 
comfort. I think not only of the DuBose family, I think of the 
Irby family and even my name, it is the same as my father's name 
and his father's name before him. It is the same as my great- 
grandfather's name. Those roman numerals at the end become more 
than just numbers. I remember the night that my child was born, 
my son, and to be very candid, I wondered if I would be the one 
to break the continuum. I was not the one to do that. He also 
bears the name of his father, grandfather, great-grandfather, and 
great great-grandfather. I am also one fortunate to come to this 
town as home and to have attended the same school that my father 
attended, that my Grandfather Knight attended, to have been 
taught by at least two teachers that I am aware of who also 
taught my father, one of whom was Mrs. Hortense Cauthen, Sudye's 
mother. She is one who has had not only a great influence on my 
life, but also taught me to read. When I selected the kinds of 



materials to read that had been encouraged in my home. 

There is that sense of continuum in work, not only in leisure. 
I mowed the same yards that my father mowed, at least four of 
them that I am aware of, those were yards that I also mowed. 
Part of what was to be taught and to be a family tradition in our 
home was the idea that we each had a responsibility to pull our 
own weight and to earn as we were able and I remember that on my 
eleventh birthday, I received a paper route as a gift and not 
ironically, I suppose, it was the same paper route that my father 
had had. It was the Tampa Tribune which he had delivered before 
me and so I too carried on the family tradition. I would get up 
each morning before dawn and the papers would be waiting up at 
Trowbridge's Old Station up here on the highway, and there is 
something about that newspaper business of mine. I remember a 
lot of the headlines of the newspapers. You would get there in 
the morning and I would have a pair of pliers and I would snip 
the wire and the wire would fly back and there would be the 
papers and the headlines would be right there. You know, the old 
movie technigue of the headlines of newspapers fanning before the 
camera; I intentionally tried not to be overly prepared for my 
visit tonight and yet, one vision that did come to me and I 
allowed myself to revel in there for a while on the way over this 
afternoon, was just those newspapers. I must say to you though, 
that it was during that time that for me, personally, a lot of my 
sense of continuum began to sort of falter or at least came into 
question, some of the things and, I am living in a town that we 
have already described and I am looking at these newspaper 
headlines and I see that the President of the United States has 
been assassinated. There are more headlines and I am seeing, on 
these newspapers each morning, that people are marching on the 
Capitol. That there are sit-ins and all the code words that come 
with the demonstrations that begin showing. I see that the 
president's brother, Robert Kennedy, has been assassinated and 
these things are coming before me and I am delivering these 
papers and, every morning, the sun is coming up as usual over the 
City of Alachua, and I am starting to wonder why. What is going 
on? I would relinquish the paper route to my brothers in 
succession and each of them would deliver and by now, I am 
working toward the 1960s. As we are all aware, that was a 
tumultuous time and a time of great social change, a time of 
questioning and the tumult would continue and assassinations 
would continue and there would come a time that the headlines 
would tell us that Martin Luther King had been assassinated. The 
personification of just a social change phenomenon in itself and, 
I am using this, of course, symbolically but, the opportunity to 
go there each morning and look at the headline and go through 
this small town with the sun coming up as usual. To see all that 
was going on about in the world and to see that many of the 
families that I would be delivering the papers to would be in a 
different home perhaps, next year, and it would be a better home 
than it was the year before, and the car might be a newer model. 
Things seemed to be going along pretty well here. I would go 
down to Main Street early in the morning and put the papers in 
the rack and out from Bob's Cafe would come some of the men who 



had already had their breakfast and were rushing off to work and 
they were dressed in their clean white uniforms to go to work out 
at the Copeland Sausage Plant. They had jobs and seemed happy 
and fortunate to have them and there were people marching on the 
Capitol that did not have jobs. 

Things were happening, too, that would change about that time and 
the schools would consolidate so now I was not going to the same 
high school that my father had gone to but to a consolidated high 
school which joined High Springs and the surrounding communities. 
There was something different too, to deal with of course, after 
that, integration would follow and there, too, though I was 
getting out of high school at about that time, it was something 
else to deal with and to put into perspective. There was 
something to put into perspective, however comfortably at that 
time it may have seemed to me that this was all coming together. 
But, I think that probably the most significant things in helping 
me personally to deal with what would come next, which would be 
that I would leave Alachua and I would be out in all those things 
that I am telling you I saw in the headlines, you see, and, I 
think the significant thing that I can tell you is what happened 
in the home and the idea of family tradition. My feeling is, in 
terms of inheritance, that I have not inherited, and do not stand 
to inherit, any great or vast holdings in terms of property or 
wealth but, what I have inherited and already reaped the benefit 
of, is a sense of heightened sensitivity to the promises of life. 
I think, a sensitivity to the needs of others and a willingness 
to be of service to others which, I believe, is among our family 
traditions and, I think of my own work and, for the last ten 
years, a lot of the gainful employment that I have had has been 
in social work, in working with kids and teaching. 

Of course education's a family tradition with our family but, I 
remember an incident which had impact on my life. I will relate 
it to you briefly. We were up here at the school and I do not 
remember my exact age but I could not have been much more than 
nine or ten years old, and there was a fellow that lived in our 
community who was probably about sixteen or seventeen and had 
been in guite a bit of trouble. I do not remember what had 
happened in the transition exactly, or how all this had come 
about, but somehow, I know that my father had been working with 
this fellow a little bit and he had him up at the schoolhouse and 
they were building a backstop for the baseball diamond. He was 
putting in a pole, you know, to hold the wire up. While he was 
finishing the job, we were going to do something else and we went 
back across the field and we got in the car and we sat in the car 
and we were watching this young fellow work. I wondered why we 
were not leaving. I looked at my father and his eyes were wet. 
I said, "what is the matter" and he just looked up and he said, 
"You know, that old boy's come a long way," and I knew right 
then, I knew. I thought, my daddy's done some good work and you 
know, that is an influence. I think of the time that in the 
afternoon particularly in the summer, my mother would sit out in 
the backyard with us. This was a neighborhood thing and there 
were a lot of the boys in our neighborhood who would come down 



and we would catch the swimming bus . We would go out to swim in 
the springs in the summer program, but before we would go, a lot 
of times we would sit out under the big oak tree in my backyard, 
and my mother would read stories to us. She is an extraordinary 
reader. There was an incident that happened. There were several 
boys there and among them was a boy named Frank Duke. I know 
that many of you remember the Duke family. Frank lived in our 
neighborhood. Mama was reading Edgar Allan Poe's The Pit and The 
Pendulum and this was on a summer afternoon and about that time 
while she was reading, nature was working with her and they 
conspired together to have the storm clouds kind of come up. In 
reading the story, just about the time that the pendulum got to 
the fellow's neck, well the lightening bolt struck. I remember 
old Frank Duke just coming up out of his seat. I know that 
nature participated in that, but my mother's ability to read 
dramatically had to have an effect, that was influence. 

In many of the things since, you know, I have sought for that. 
It seems to me now that I should be coming to some conclusions 
but, there is no conclusion for me. That is bits and pieces of 
some of the things that I recollect and I suggest to you, there 
is only continuum. 

Ms. Irby, I was thinking, came from the world of the headlines. 
She came from the Flappers down there in Palm Beach, and came to 
the Depression in Bardenton, then came into Alachua. Will, 
talking about the feeling of growing up here, and I sensed a 
little bit of the world being too nice here with all those other 
things going on the outside, feeling a little bit constricted, 
maybe, by the family and all these other things and wondering 
what effect it was having on him. I would like to ask Ms. Irby 
if you ever had similar feelings that maybe Alachua's not quite 
in step with the time and how you handled those same feelings, if 
you had them or maybe your husband or . . . 

I do agree that sometimes I felt like my children were not 
experiencing the real world. This was really almost too safe and 
too quiet. I think one instance that I remember, and a lot of 
people thought I was really weird to do this: But I put my 
children in the car and took them over to the University to see a 
riot. You know, they did not know what a riot was. They were 
having one on the campus, I cannot even remember for what reason. 
We took them on lots of family trips and traveled throughout the 
eastern seaboard of the United States and some other places, too. 
We tried to let them see the rest of the world. We took them to 
New York City and places like that to try to show them that this 
was not all there was. 

You ever remember your parents, your grandparents, talking in a 
similar way about small town and wanting to get out? 

Yes, my grandfather was a railroad man and the railroads were 
really coming into their own in that particular time and I can 
remember him saying lots of things about, "this is really going 
to open up things. We are really going to be able to go places 



and see things and people from up north were beginning to come 
down more and more and that was in the Palm Beach Era when the 
rich and the famous were coming down. That was from his 
standpoint, what the railroad was going to do. 

I imagine a lot like when the interstate came through, people 
thought because of things. 

Right. Somebody told me when they put the interstate through, we 
are going to have colder winters because of letting the air out 
of Georgia. I believe it. 

Mrs. Irby, I am personally not a bit sure that my son, William, 
has this sense of continuity that you talk about. I wonder what 
suggestion you would offer parents today for creating this sense 
of continuity, helping that along? 

Well, everybody's got ancestors. I mean, some of them you might 
want to hide but I think, my suggestion would be to sort those 
out. Who were they? Where did they come from? Where did they 
live and what did they do here? 

Think there might be a delayed reaction, too? Where the child 
gets to a certain age before he or she appreciates all that they 
did receive? Will, I want to ask you, I wonder if you had 
something more to say. 

Well, certainly, awareness of one's ancestry is significant to it 
but, I do not know that it is a matter of historical 
significance. I think that identifying the roles that we have 
within the family, making those fair and responsible kinds of 
roles and setting up family traditions begins with the first 
instance of that activity or act or whatever. There is some 
family traditions that reguire that everyone drink from the same 
eggnog glass and then there are others that simply reguire that 
you come to the dinner table dressed appropriately, that you have 
a shirt on. That your hands are clean, and those kinds of things 
and I worry that a lot of the sense of continuum that we are 
giving praise to tonight is not felt in a lot of families because 
they lack structure, and that awareness of structure brings out 
things. It has been my experience that it brings out a lot of 
security, not only to children and youth, but to families at 
large. 

Well, what do you remember of the riots now, at the University 
campus? 

Well, my mother's intentions were good. It did not have as much 
social significance as she might have liked. I believe that it 
was a panty raid (loud audience laughter). That was the popular 
thing during those days. 

Got a guestion in the back? 

Well, you are talking about the positive aspects of continuum and 



having grown up in a small town, did you feel like you also had a 
certain amount of baggage you had to carry with you? 

Well, I did, but I guess maybe that there is always a 
responsibility, when you have responsible parents, you know, it 
is a little, it is kind of difficult to be irresponsible. So I, 
you know I certainly made efforts to, but I just have never 
really felt like that I had any, and I have tried to think of 
them. You know I have never really felt that I had any real 
excuse not to go about things in a responsible way. But I have 
resented that at times, when I would find myself in a situation 
that I really would liked to have acted irresponsibly. I was 
angry and I have, but I have always had that, I guess, the 
conscience. Sometimes you wish you did not. You deal with 
people, and they do not seem to have a conscience and you say 
well, why are they laying all this stuff on me? These guys are 
getting rich! I got halfway good sense. I could go into 
business. Why is it that I have got to do this kind of work? 

Thank you very much, the Irbys. 

The Richards, the first bunch that come over, it was Don Francis, 
Joseph Richard, Louis Richard, and that was in 1780, and they 
first come into St. Augustine, I believe it was, and then they 
come on down the St. Johns River and right now, where they made 
their stop, they called it Strawberry Hill but to us, now, it is 
Black Creek, that creek that comes out near Middleburg . At that 
time, Jacksonville was not even on the map or anything. But 
anyway, he did something overseas, in Italy, I believe it was, 
that he had to get out and get out in a hurry so he met this girl 
that her father I believe had a sugar plantation or something and 
his wife's name was Louis. Her name was Richarde, that is the 
way it was spelled, now they leave the "e" off. Some spell it 
Reshard. So, it is kind of like Alachua. They have different 
ways. But he did something for the gueen or king or something, 
anyway they granted him 16,000 acres form the Spanish Crown. 
There was Richards and Morgans and Budingtons in 1636, it was 
settled along Middleburg, where Middleburg and Jacksonville is 
now, that was on the east bank to the St. John's River. This 
land grant was mostly on the map in the northeast part of 
Florida. It was confirmed by the Supreme Court of the United 
States, by Justice John Marshall, after Florida became a state 
and I kind of get confused about this because, really some said 
Sugar Hill and then when I read in these notes that I have and 
papers that I have had handed down to me, well, there was a Judge 
Richard. I know my dad, different people, colored people, white 
and all, would call him "Judge" and I wondered where they got the 
"Judge" from, but when you go back and read through all this, 
well there was a Judge Richard at one time. Out in the Bland 
Section, I think, there was a Miss Jones on here one night 
talking about Sugar Hill. James Richard lived on Sugar Hill. 
Sugar Grove and Sugar Hill, so I don't know where Sugar Grove 
was, but I know where my folks used to live. Right now, it is 
part of the Santa Fe River Ranch. Well, at one time, they 
pointed out different places to me where the Indians had their 



10 



place when they were first there and then my Grandmother Richard 
told me about one morning seeing this Indian take this young girl 
away. Just picked her up and killed her right there where they 
milked cows and everything. Then we had a place on the farm that 
they said "this is the slaves 's cemetery and this is where 
some of the Indians, you know." I said all out in there, it is 
just like that gentlemen last Thursday night was talking about 
all of the Indian mounds and the things that you can go out 
through the woods here and find. Well, it is that way all over 
out in that area. In fact, it is God's Country. I tell 
everybody: That is God's Country. From this road back towards 
Bland you can just bet on it. If all of you would just take time 
and, get outside and look around and be out in the quiet, well 
then you will know, and tell the people in the Forest Grove area: 
"We can take one wheelbarrow full of sand out there and fertilize 
a whole acre of dirt back this way." Anyway, going back to Don 
Francis, he was quite a guy, I guess, but anyway, it was handed 
down. They settled around Middleburg, I call it Black Creek. I 
think they started and he had a sawmill and, back then to use any 
of the water you had to get permission from the higher-ups. He 
was wanting to fix a sawmill he could work with from the water 
and he had these fellows, working for him, after they had so many 
logs they had to cut a day and they had things handed down like 
that and if you did not do it, well you had to stay there until 
you got it finished. Of course, they did not get any pay like we 
get now. If they had to work like they did then well, I imagine 
they would take up another turn. I think that is one of the 
things that we all have our ideas up too high and want to make 
too much money. Where we do not really slow down and take time 
to really enjoy what we have around us. 

Then I think Don Francis had a son, and it was John Charles 
Richard, if I am not mistaken. He was baptized in St. Augustine 
when he was only two years old and then, that John Charles, like 
he was talking about William being handed down in his family, 
John Charles had been handed down in the Richard family or some 
part of the Richards and John Charles Richard. One of them 
married a Melinda Tyson and this Melinda and John Charles had 
five boys and five girls. He died when he was in his sixties. 
That left her alone with her children, and, of course, from what 
I can understand, she had a lot of will power. So she continued 
on with her farm and her land, which, right now, is Earl Boston's 
farm land, the Santa Fe River Ranch. I think that 16,000 acres 
was all from there back towards Jacksonville. That had taken in 
about nine different counties—Columbia, Baker, and Union 
Counties, and at times they have mentioned Newnansville. Well, I 
never hear a Richard. I never hear a Boston. Once in a while, 
you might hear a Dell. All those people were connected with 
Newnansville as well as some of the people that they have brought 
out in the different ones. 

Melinda, going back to her, was head of her plantation and she 
had these girls, and one of them was named Harry French and that 
was the one that married George Boston's father. I believe it 
was William Boston. That place that the Bostons have out there 

11 



was really the property that Melinda gave her daughter French. 
She gave each one of them so much. One of the sons, called 
"Cap," ended up around Starke. I understand that over there 
where the Episcopal Church is and the Methodist Church, that he 
gave the property there for those churches to be built on and 
besides that, I think he and some guy went together and they 
opened a grocery store. A long time ago, they just had 
everything in one store. You go to one store and you get most 
anything you want but you can get around over there and talk with 
the older people. They remember some of these things but it is 
just like around here, I hate to say it but a lot of our older 
people have gone and we do not have too many of them around and 
it just hurts me to my heart because they are the ones that 
created what we have around here. If we want it and want to 
carry it on, we have got to get busy to keep things going. 

My great grandfather was a Richard and he married a Helen Morgan 
and she was from over around Middleburg. Out at Richard's home, 
where we lived out from Bland, I did not live there all my life, 
I was born right here on the hill where McCoy had a lumber mill 
and had a big house that they rented out and my grandfather was a 
railroad man so he was gone most of the time so there was my 
mother and two brothers. Well, Ted married and got out and Bill, 
he never did. He lived with me all of his life. He passed away 
a few years ago. But upstairs, it was like two apartments, in 
one part of the house. Now there was a brother in-between but he 
died real young so I was kind of tomboyish, and, of course, that 
suited my dad. He did not care because he did not have the boys 
so I guess he figured he would make one out of me and that was 
not hard to do. I used to like to ride horses. I had my hair 
cut like a boy and I dressed like a boy. We lived here and I am 
not real sure about it, but I think Miss McFadden was my 
kindergarten teacher, but I am not sure. But I went to 
kindergarten and the first grade and after that my grandfather 
died and we had to move to the farm. 

But, in the meantime, when you go back to the first panel we had, 
they talked about corn and tobacco and, first one thing and 
another. Well, we had a big crop of potatoes. My dad did this a 
lot so we lived here in town. He would go out to the farm out 
near Doris Dansby's folks. He would rent land and plant potatoes 
out there because that was a good section to plant potatoes. 
That was in the Model T days, I guess, because I know my oldest 
brother when we used to run out and when Dad come in, he would 
hold his hand out and jump on the sides just to get to ride on 
the running board, and everywhere Dad went, Calvin went. So, I 
do not know what he was doing, but anyway, the darn thing turned 
over on them out there on that road and broke my brother's neck 
and he had to wear a cast from here up. We have had several 
doctors in and out but one put this cast on. He says, "Now you 
got to keep it on for six weeks," and after he had it on for 
awhile, like about two weeks, well, he fell in an ant bed and 
got ants all under it so he had to go down and they had to take 
it off. Everybody thought he had a bottle of beer or two under 
his shirt when he walked around. I think it is from way back when 



12 



he did have this accident. I do not know what it is but it did 
something to him. I know John, he will say "Calvin's been 
drinking today?" and I would say, "No, there is nothing wrong 
with him. If you will just look at him, it is the way he walks." 

Then we had some good times. We moved out, Rosie Ellis had a 
place out here. This place belongs to Rock Hollow Farm right 
now, and we lived in the house with her. She had a couple rooms 
and she did not want to live by herself. Then Dad would plant 
potatoes all out there where Mr. Fields has his place. He plants 
potatoes there. But going back, my grandfather passed away and 
we moved out to the farm. Dad had several hands and at that time 
you farmed with the mules, not with a tractor or whatever. Out 
there we have our family cemetery that has been handed down 
through generations and, if you read the deeds and everything, 
well, there is always two acres that has been set aside, 
regardless of who has the property what. I sold the last eighty 
acres to the Santa Fe River Ranch, but it did deed these two 
acres which were set aside for the Richard Cemetery. Back in 
1847 is when the first person is out there and most of them are 
Richards. I know there are two people that are buried out there. 
Gallops, I believe are their names and they were just friends of 
Richards. There are some Clarks out there, but I think if you 
searched around the Richards, we would be kin to pretty near 
everybody out that way because the Davises are connected and of 
course, this Frenchman Richard that married the Boston, well that 
is the way we were kin to the Bostons. Anyway, we got a hang-up 
there. 

You all were talking about different things about, I think 
somebody asked a question, I do not know whether they asked 
William or what, if kids now or the younger people would carry on 
this. Well, they might be like Mr. Earl Boston was. When he was 
a young fellow and all, all he thought about was work and making 
that dollar. He said, "Martha have you got any papers you think 
I should have, well get me up a copy of them." So you might not 
have enough time when you get younger. I mean, when you are 
younger, but when you get older, then you have time for these 
things. I said that really, the way Earl has gone about it, it 
really excites me about it because every little thing that he 
finds, he brings it in to my daughter, Ava, and wants her to re- 
write it where he cannot see very well. Then where she works 
they have these machines that she can run these copies off for 
him and he will tell her how many he wants and he gets that. 

But, I think there is a Richard out here in Newnansville. There 
are some in Lacrosse's cemetery, in Starke, and there are some of 
course in our family cemetery. Then going way back, well, at one 
time, when they were fighting in Olustee, there were five Richard 
brothers and I could give you the names of them but I do not 
imagine any of you would know them. But anyway at one time they 
were fighting there and I know we have a letter and I brought it 
along in case that they wanted it for their record they could 
have it and then, also, going back to where they first come in 
and settled along the St. John's River over there at Black Creek, 



13 



well they used to call it Tiger Hole Plantation and it goes on to 
say that they do not really know why it was called that then. If 
you read on down further, they say that it was a circus at one 
time somewhere around and they let the tiger out, or a lion out 
or something, and while they were down having a picnic. I do not 
know whether it was a panther or a tiger or what but it got after 
this woman and it killed her and I guess that is where it got the 
name Tiger Hole Plantation. 

Let's see, the Richards, well, we had a good time at home and I 
went to school from about the second grade through the eighth 
grade. We walked two miles to Bland School and two miles back 
home every day. I was not the only one. There was guite a few 
of us and of course we had a lot of fun. Sometimes we would get 
Mary Pinkston some of you might know her that is Ms. 
Cauthen's, Tomye Cauthen's youngest sister. Well, she was the 
only one in her family and we had some bad boys along with us and 
they liked to pour sand down your back or throw it on you. Me 
being a tomboy, well I would not let them mess with my younger 

brothers and sisters. They would get on to Mary Old Jack 

would and I would get on to him and I would beat the fire out of 
him. Nellie Gilbert was one of the teachers out there and Mae 
Vaughn taught out there. I cannot remember all of them but, 
anyway, after I finished eighth grade, I came in here to live 
with my mother's folks. Mr. and Miss Elmore Redd and I learned a 
lot at home with Pappa Jody and Grandma Mattie. She taught me a 
lot and always, she was the one to milk the cows and I always 
went along with her and learned how to make the butter and of 
course, out there we always had our own and our sausage and what. 
And we still have that at our home yet and cane grindings. Now, 
we did not do much cane grinding at the Richards. It was done 
around there. It was done a little bit and but my husband, he 
likes things like that and I go along with him because I get a 
little bit of kick out of it up until last year now, we had 
anywhere from, they all found out what, when we would go grind 
cane, kinspeople and they came from Alabama and Titusville and 
all around. I think I had anywhere from twelve to fifteen for 
breakfast, dinner, and supper. I told Nolan, I said "Now that is 
gonna be guit or when cane grinding comes, Martha's not going to 
be around." When you work with that cane and making syrup, that 
is enough without having company. But we all have a good time 
and we invite different ones to come up and I think the people in 
the community enjoy it. We have kids from Rolling Green and 
different places that they can bring them out to see it. We 
always kill a hog or two before we start grinding cane because he 
says there is no need of having any syrup if you do not have 
sausage. 

Up until about three years ago, we cured our meat out there and 
of course Nolan, I knew a bit about it and Nolan got a lot of it 
from my dad. You have to do certain things, leave it in salt so 
long and have to work those joints to get the water out and all 
that kind of stuff and, up until about three years ago, well I 
just told him, "Shoot! We can go buy a ham a lot easier than we 
can work with it like that. You got to know what to put on them 



14 



and how to put it on and all this to keep the bugs out of them. 
If you do not, they will take over. But we still have a cane 
grinding and I guess it will be about the second week in November 
this year if everything goes well, that we will start. Of course 
we will kill that hog first week of November. It is a lot of 
things that I think the kids miss today. 

The younger people that have never been on a farm or never been 
out where they can enjoy these things because I rode horses, I 
drove cows, we used to dip cows and we would drive them to Bland, 

Mr. had a dipping vat over there and it was reguired, if 

you had them you had to dip them and we had a lot of trouble with 
them and then we had a lot of fun and I enjoyed it because if I 
could get on a horse and the faster he would go, the better I 

would like it. Then, lot of times I would Doc Roberston's 

woods from out home and it went to the Worthington Springs Road 
and we did not have very many nickels and dimes and what. I 
think there was a Mr. Reeves had a little store out in Bland and 
if we got a nickel to spend there, well we was doing good but my 
older brother and myself would get on the horse and we would take 
them to buy eggs or buy a chicken or two and go to Worthington 
Springs to sell and get us some candy. But now if you was to 
tell a kid to do that, they would say, "Humm, I ain't gonna do 
that!" One thing that is wrong with the younger folks and then, 
too, another things, they just do not make them work. Like he had 
his paper route. Well, I do not know that there is very many 
around now that have got a paper routes and all do, that kind of 
work. 

But we always called my dad's father, Papa Jody and Grandma 
Mattie and my mother's folks was Mama and Papa. All of my 
grandparents are gone but I can tell everybody this and I do not 
have to, because I brought my daughter up and I was glad that she 
had grandparents to enjoy because I know if you have not got them 
you have just missed something in life. Another thing I always 
said that I would never do this to my child or children if I had 
more than one but I just have the one daughter. My grandmother 
when I lived with her, well the traffic went through the town 
here. We did not have the Main Street over here. It went right 
on through and we did not have red lights and you had to watch 
crossing the street. Mr. Stokes had a little old barbershop 
right across from the Pizza Barn, I believe, across the street. 
He is the one that used to cut my hair. Every time I would leave 
the house to go get groceries or do some little errand for my 
grandmother, well she would say, "Come kiss me goodbye," and I 
would have to go kiss her goodbye and come back. I do not care 
if I was not going anywhere much. It was that way and I said, 
"Well, I am not going to make my daughter do like that. Some 
times she says, "Mama I am going to bed." I said, "Well, come 
kiss me good night." She has never kissed me yet. In Nolan's 
family, now they are real affectionate because Aunt Viola and 
Aunt Bell, if you do not hug their neck, they think something's 
wrong and I said it is good to be like that. My grandparents, 
the Redds, are buried at New Hope. Nolan's folks are down at 
Forest Grove and my folks, all but my mother, she was put with 

15 



her folks out at the Richard Plantation. Something every once in 
awhile comes up about if where you are gonna be buried or what, I 
say "Well, you got three place to put me. Anywhere you want to 
put me, it is okay with me." But, still, I would like to be in 
God's Country because it is real guiet and nice out there under 
them big oak trees. Mother, every time the younger bunch 
graduated well, when one was in the senior class, she always gave 
them a steak supper. She had the whole senior class out and they 
would have a steak supper. They come in now, telling me about 
how they enjoyed it and then when we had cane grindings, well we 
got on them old humming and we would just have a time and we used 
to, long time ago, we would go to somebody's house and have a 
sguare dance. I do not think nobody would have a sguare dance 
not in their house. If they did, I do not know what they would 
think. But, anyway, we had good times. We did not get to do a 
whole lot. We had peanut boilings, all kind of things like that. 

Let's ask a few guestions here before we move on. One thing I 
was interested in was, it just sounds like you are related to 
lots of people and there was a sense of place. I get that every 
place around here was connected to somebody. Had a story about 
who fell over here and broke their neck, story about the circus, 
the lion. How did you and your family handle new people coming 
into town. How were they accepted? Were they invited for the 
steak dinner? 

Whatever we had, it might not be steaks every day, but whatever we 
had, they were welcome to have or share, whatever we had, yes. 

Did you ever get the feeling that outsiders felt that it was a 
cold community? I have heard that from people, say Alachua's kind 
of hard to get to know people.... 

Well, I have heard that, too, here and of course like here, it was 
not like that out at the farm. We were just all out there dirty 
and working and all and whoever come along, well they were 
invited and welcome to share whatever we had. 

You think that is changed at all these days or? 

Well, it is changed to a certain extent, yes, because lots of 
times a lot of them do not care, do not want to see you coming. 
Not for a meal now. 

Well, I just want to tell you Martha, I want to get with you 
afterwards because you told me to "Slow down and take time to 
enjoy what we have around us," and then you said, "If we want to 
keep things going with tradition, we have got to get busy." I 
want to talk to you. I am teasing you but I appreciate both 
injunctions. 

Thank you very much. 

One thing I think that I want to bring up that Martha has, has 
exemplified here and it is an advertisement to all of you. That 

16 



a lot of what makes Alachua Alachua is, so much the paperwork, 
the deeds, the letters that have been handed down but, the other 
part of it are these, little family stories that really give a 
sense to some of the funny things that happened way back when. 

I could tell you some more. 

But I think when we, as an injunction to you all, it does not 
take much to get a small tape recorder and get with some of these 
people and start taping some of these old stories because, that 
would give life to the deeds, that would give life to the places 
people talk about and as we have heard so much about, there are 
plenty of these little stories that I think we could think about, 
tell each other, interview each other, get a couple folks 
together talking and it is really an excellent way to find out 
about traditions and, as I said, to give life to some of the 
written materials that we see here. We have one guestion. 

Regarding how people feel coming in: We came here in 1941, and we 
were not property owners. My dad always worked for the other 
person and he got the most out of his homestead and my parents 
were older when I was born. So when we came here, my father was 
an elderly man and my mother was approaching middle-age. But 
there was an acceptance on who you were and, I think that is 
changing a little bit. One illustration, my father got paid for 
something, he had some money when Mr. Traxler ' s bank had the 
checks and he had never seen him before. But his daughter was in 
my second grade class at school and I visited in their home. She 
invited me and Mr. Traxler thought I was a pretty neat little kid 
and I had been there two or three times when he said, "Well, now, 
who are you? Well, where did you come from? Well, who are you 
working for?" He says, " Do you have a little girl named Ethel?" 
My daddy said, "Yes." There was that acceptance and it was sort 
of I feel like my heritage began here and there was an acceptance 
then. I think now, it was sort of a let's wait and see sort of 
an attitude. What kind of person are you going to be? I think 
then there was an open acceptance of who you were, that you were 
a decent person, that you were going to be a contributing member 
regardless of whether you were landed or not landed. In 
contrast, my husband's grandfather immigrated from Ireland and 
his parents came down and yet, I think he his adopted my heritage 
here more than the heritage in Youngston, Ohio, where he came 
from. There is more of a sense of family. I feel like the whole 
town is my family. 

Ms. Cauthen taught me in Sunday School. Ms. Irby's mother taught 
me in Sunday School, my mother and Ms. Irby's mother and several 
others. Do not try to talk to any of those ladies between five 
and six in the afternoon. Because that is when they rotated and 
talked to each other. One would talk to two o'clock, those two 
would talk to four o'clock and before the evening was over, they 
would each know that they were all right. I know families still 
take care of their own and I know sometimes we have talked about 
a hotline for people who live alone but, at this particular time, 
there was no need because those ladies looked out for each other. 



17 



If the phone did not answer, then somebody had to go see why it 
did not answer. I think that is changing. I think now the 
people who live here do tend to have a let's wait and see, you 
know, or let's look and see what kind of jobs they have and I 
think it is regrettable that we look now a little more at 
quantity than at quality. 

I just wanted to say real quickly that you are going to hear Tim 
Check announce that we have a special opportunity to watch a 
videotape after the forum ends. This videotape was made by Miss 
Kathy O'Dea. Kathy O'Dea is the person who did this videotape 
of Bonnie Robarts talking with Barney Cato, with that kind of 
sense of heritage and this idea of this town as family. 

Thank you very much I would like to introduce Mr. Alex Lundy. 

I am not going to say much because my daughters is standing on 
the edge of the seat right now. On to Ms. Cauthen and this 
great program that she is sponsored here which I think is very 
wonderful. Really, I am not going to say much because I have my 
grandson here and I think he is gonna say something. It reminds 
me of the farmer and the boll weevil. I love to tell jokes, 
things like that, I really do. The farmer say to the boll 
weevil, I will "see you on the square." The boll weevil say to 
the farmer, I am not going to do you much harm but we are here. 
So I am not going to do but just a very little." I guess we all 
know what a boll weevil is I think you do. It is an insect and 
it is found mostly where cotton grows. So the boll weevil say to 
the farmer, "I tell you what you better sell your old machinery 
and get some more because when I get through with your cotton, 
you would not even be able to buy gasoline." So if I stand here 
and talk and talk, you all will be ready to go home. You will 
get disgusted. So we do not like to do people like that. These 
three ladies are sitting right here, we were classmates together. 
We went to school together and they went on and finished high 
school and they taught school. I finished high school then went 
off to college for a couple of years and I decided I wanted to be 
a speechwriter . So, going to college with a family to start 
with, that fell through so I had to take hold to something else 
to make a living. 

I am just glad to be here and glad for my children, would like to 
explore some of the things in life that I came on as I grew up. 
Now, what we are supposed to talk about tonight the subject is 
"Continuity" and I think most of us know what that means. The 
word "continuity" means I get from that, it is a continued thing, 
something that goes on continually. I say from one generation to 
another so, right now, I do not think that the time will permit 
me to even talk about that. But I still will say a few things. 
Now I was reared under my grandmother and my grandmother she was 
a Black Mohawk Indian from North Carolina. She came down to this 
part of the country from a girl and she married, my grandfather 
who was a Cherokee Indian. So that goes on to show you that I 
have quite a bit of Indian in me, I think. Now, my grandmother 
had a part in raising me until I was about fourteen years old and 

18 



some of the things that I heard her say, I heard her make a 
statement one time that, "Lord have mercy, I do not know what is 
going to happen to this next two, three generations. When I was 
a girl, they were cooking in the house and going to the bathroom 
outdoors. Lord-a-mercy, they are cooking outdoors and going to 
the bathroom in the house." It was really true so I mean, those 
are some of the things that I had to go through with when I was 
growing up. So there are lot of things, lots of funny stories 
that I could tell you about how I grew up under my grandmother. 
She passed away when I was about fourteen years old. I will tell 
you about my father, after my grandfather. My grandfather lived 
to be about between eighty-seven and ninety-one years old and 
about a couple years before he passed away, he lost his mind. 
Then I say, "Well now, my grandfather lost his mind, what is 
next?" Then along comes my father. I think my father was about 
eighty-six or eighty-seven when he died. He lost his mind! I 
wonder is this going to happen to me? I been praying that 
anything like that does not happen to me. I can just go on and 
talk, talk, talk, and show you how I came up and then, I am still 
not going to say much. 

I have my two daughters here. My grandson. He is a great 
talker, also he is a minister. Mrs. Strickland, used to be, when 
she was a girl, Mr. Mallie Strickland's daughter (referring to 
Hortense Cauthen in audience), this is her [Sudye Cauthen's] 
mother. I knew Ms. Hortense Cauthen from a little bitty girl. I 
knew her and knew her father. He was the mail carrier to that 
station out toward Nebo and the first time that I can remember 
him he drove a horse and buggy carrying the mail and he went from 
there, I believe it was a Model A, or a Model T Ford, that he 
carried the mail in from Alachua out through Jonesville, 
Newberry, and Archer. I think these ladies sitting right here 
knew about him. He was a wonderful person. He never had any 
argument with the people going up and down the route and I think 
he was very wonderful. Now we had nine children. I had four 
girl and five boys. They graduated, I work for them. Every one 
of them graduated from high school. Two or three of them went 
off to college. Gwendolyn! That is my baby daughter. She 
finished in nursing. She worked for Shands Medical Center in the 
intensive care unit. Helen! Stand up Helen. Let them see you. 
That is my oldest daughter. She finished in sterile supplies she 
works at the VA Hospital. I had one of my other sons, my third 
oldest boy, he was supposed to be here tonight, but evidently he 
went some other way and did not come. But anyway, he finished in 
nuclear medicine. He is the third oldest boy and he is the head 
Scan man at the Alachua General Hospital. He does all the 
scanning for Alachua General Hospital. My baby boy, he graduated 
from college in Houston, Texas. He has got a job out there 
teaching history. Our second oldest boy, to our regret and to 
the people that knew him in this town, he graduated from Bethune- 
Cookman College, he was the second oldest boy and he had a spell 
of sickness. Three months after he graduated from Bethune- 
Cookman College with a Bachelor of Science degree, he passed away 
and it really hurt the whole family. The oldest boy, he was a 
grease man. He was a mechanic. Then I have a younger boy, the 

19 



other boy, fourth oldest son, he went into, in fact all my boys 
went into the service and stayed for two years but the third 
oldest boy, he is making a career out of his army life. He has 
been in the army twenty years and he is going to make one more 
year and he is going to retire with twenty-one years. I think 
that is remarkable. That was my second oldest boy. So, I have a 
grandson. This is my grandson, oldest grandson, Dexter. Stand 
up, Dexter, let them see you and then maybe they will give you a 
chance to say something. He is my oldest grandson. I raised 
him. I raised him from two weeks old until about a year ago. He 
is now twenty three years old. So I had a real good part in 
raising him. So I do not guess I will say any more. 

Mr. Lundy, before you do sit down, I do have a question. You 
remember we were talking earlier with the Irbys about little 
family traditions that people observe. Whether it be the way you 
come to the table or what you do on a certain holiday or the way 
you have reunions. Do you remember any of those old traditions 
from your parents and grandparents that were passed on down to 
your children and grandchildren? 

Yes. The most important thing that I taught my children, I taught 
them table manners. That is the first thing, I taught them table 
manners. They sit down to eat and you say the grace and whatever 
you had before you, I taught them that they should eat it. But 
now, I am telling you, this thing is what we supposed to talk 
about and I do not think we have got quite enough time to do it. 
That is the way I was taught. Whatever was put before me and we 
say and we set down and we ate it. That is the way I taught my 
children. 

But now, you set the table and put it down. We have got a long 
ways to go and we have got a lot to do to help our younger 
generation and our younger children. Now you put a plate down 
set them to the table and put a plate down for them. If they 
look at it and they do not like it, they get up and go on about 
their business. I do not want that! 

Let's let your grandson talk a little while. 

Be glad to answer some questions because I really want to give 
him a chance. 

Well, first of all, I am not a long speaker. Lot of things 
that has continued in our family, good things, I like to 
see continue. Not only in our family but there is some 
good things to continue here in Alachua that I have seen 
since I was reared here, since I went to school here, I 
remember Ms. Irby and Mr. Irby. He was principal of 
Alachua elementary. I was one of the first minorities to 
go there, before they integrated the school and I saw some 
good examples in the school system. I was there, it was a 
new environment for me, of course, but I saw some great 
examples there and I saw some great examples all over here, 
in the town of Alachua. Most of all, my family. The 



20 



greatest example that has been set to me is the ones that I 
saw in my family. My grandfather, my grandmother, and my 
mother. I saw some example that I am glad that it has been 
discontinued. I see some that I would like to see go on. 
Well, the things that I saw in our family that was most 
important was moral standards. They were real high. Not 
just table manners, but how to respect people. I respect 
other people, whatever race, whatever color, you respect 
and you treat people how you want to be treated. Now that 
was the teaching that I got at home. I will say that was 
our tradition. That was what my grandmother and my 
grandfather when they always recited to me about the olden 
days, about their parents, and how they were treated and 
they were always recited to me and I held them dear to me 
and I did not always hold to them, but later on, I made a 
choice to hold to them not that I forgot them. They would 
always speak to me, the teachings that I got at home and 
the examples that I saw here in Alachua. I saw it in the 
school, I saw it everywhere I would go. I could see some 
good and bad examples. Some that I would like to see 
continued and some that I would like to see discontinued. 
Of course I remember only, most of all, the good examples, 
the ones that I would like to see continue. 

What are some of the values or good examples that you like 
to see passed down to subsequent generations in your 
family? 

Respect, is one of them. That is most, most, most of all, 
what I have been exposed to. I mean respect is one of 
them. The main one. Respect. Treat me how you want to be 
treated, you know. That is what I was taught. That is the 
main thing that speaks in my mind ever since my childhood, 
the environment that I was raised in. 

What effect does religion have on family life, traditions 
in the family, setting and establishment of values? How 
did that fit in? 

T: First of all religion could be anything. But from my 
viewpoint, you know. 

B: Maybe one way to think about it, if you could tell us, 
what, about your growing up. What led you into the 
ministry yourself? How did you make that decision? Why? 

T: The reason why I make the decision to go into the ministry 
was because of the examples that I saw in my home. Now 
they deviated some, you know, sometimes, but everybody does 

B: Were there relatives in your home who were in the ministry? 

T: My grandfather, I can remember when he was a deacon in the 
church. My grandmother, she had a active part in the 
church. Really, the whole family background was reared in 



21 



the church. I mean, that was the whole family background 
so I see where that played a part. I say yes that is why 
it had a big influence on what I choose to do today, the 
decision that I made had a big part in it. 

B: Mr. Will Irby was talking a little bit earlier about some 
of the problems he had. He resented the fact that he 
always had to serve, he could not go out and make that 
million dollars and kind of sometimes felt family as a 
pressure over him. Did you ever feel like that growing up 
and, if you did, did you ever talk to your grandfather 
about it and what is that about? Any times when you just 
said, "I wish I were not in Alachua. I was somewhere 
else. " 

T: Well, yes, it has been many times that I have thought that. 
Bad times and times in school. 

B: Give us some examples. What was it like and how did you 
work through it? 

T: I guess I just at times I had tantrums, you know. Well, 
like I said, I had not always, dealt with it the way I 
should have dealt with it. 

B: Well, when you did deviate, how did your family deal with 
that? 

T: I guess you can say it was tradition that our family was 
religious and when I deviated or when I, which I did 
deviate, I turned away from it. It made me kind of feel 
uncomfortable you know, because I did not continue you 
know, in the family tradition. 

B: Well, I am sure that Mr. Lundy, when you were growing up 
did you ever feel like this town is not for me and I would 
like to get out or too many things happening or the 
Depression's coming on. Did you ever have those feelings 
and how did your family handle that? Any continuity? 

L: Well, I tell you how they handled that as I was growing up. 
There is things that I did not like and I did not want to 
do anything about it. Then they had a way of showing me 
that it would be done, was supposed to be done. They had a 
solution that they gave me. That is the way, it happened 
with me. Now, what else? I will sit here and answer your 
questions all night. The best that I can. 

C: You have any questions for any of the panelists? 

SC: I have twenty- five. 

C: Yours do not count. 

B: Perhaps Mr. Lundy' s daughters might have some questions for 

22 



the panel they would like to mention. 

I guess Glenn just do not want to tell what changed his 
mind, used to be a bad boy and he had a accident. 

This accident you had, it caused you to change? 

That started in high school when I started hanging out 
with a bad crowd. I got with a bad group of guys and I 
guess it was peer pressure. They would be type of guys 
kind of they was like sneaky. They stayed in trouble. You 
know, they kind of kept it under cover. But the turning 
point, one night we were traveling down a dirt road by 
Burnett's Lake just for a joy ride, see what kind of 
trouble we could get into, and that night, coming around a 
curve going just a little bit too fast. The car flipped 
over four times and he totally lost the car and me and two 
other guys in it. We headed for a big oak tree and so 
really, I thought I was dead because I could not see 
anything. All that was around me dark. I said to my self, 
if I had one more chance, I would give my life to the Lord. 
One more chance and about that time, you know, the car had 
stopped flipping and then it is still darkness. When I 
found out that I was alive and I still had this body that 
was in one piece, I stepped outside of the car, and I was 
so happy I was alive, I forgot about my other friends. 
When I came to my senses and found out that I was alive and 
that I had another chances, to search for my other friends 
and one suffered a concussion, the other suffered bruises 
but I was the only one able to run for help. While I was 
running down the road I was telling the Lord that I was 
going to change and that he had changed me and that I would 
live for him and I think that was the major incident that 
caused me to make a decision. 

Thank you. Some other guestions that somebody would like 
to recount anything. 

I would like to tell him, to learn the twenty-third Psalm 
and really preach it and you have nothing to fear in this 
world, Nothing! 

Thank you. 

In this world and the world to come. 

Some other guestions? 

I am an outsider from Gainesville, but it is awfully 
interesting to sit back and to see this town come alive at 
these meetings. It occurred to me, there are places in 
Hawaii where the lava oozing from the volcanoes have not 
covered up. There are little bits of growth that were 
there originally, but lava will cover other things and take 
them away, but there are little spaces were these rare and 



23 



ancient plants are all still living after thousands of 
years and the rest is all changed. I am a plant lover and 
these exotic and wonderful things, you know that you cannot 
find anymore, are in these little nooks in Hawaii. I 
cannot help but think of Alachua as being kind of a 
specially preserved place that has not been ruined by 
civilization and other things and that I hope you will 
preserve all these precious and wonderful things that you 
are uncovering, like jewels, and then when the world forgets 
about it and needs it, you will be able to, maybe as a 
loving family, accomplish a unity or something that the 
rest of the world is going to want. Say look, here is how 
we did it. Here is what we kept: Our family and our 
tradition and our roots. I hope you can keep all your 
lovely things and share it with the rest of the world. 

B : Mr . Lundy? 

L: There is one thing that really bothers me. I am going to 
speak my mind about it. It really bothers me. I can say 
it, because I do not think I owe any person in this town a 
dime. That is among the white or the black. But what 
really bothers me, that we did not have enough of our own 
people (black community) participate in these things like 
that. The ones that should be here and ought to be here 
are not here and we do not have enough of our race. The 
black people should participate in these programs and it 
is, good for them. It is good for all of us and I think we 
should have more. I think you should know about it. The 
ones that are not here, are the ones that should be here. 

H: It has been in all the papers. 

L: They know about it too. Everytime the same people comes 
everytime. Them three ladies there. That is it maybe I 
think I saw Ms. Lee here once or twice but these three 
ladies right there, they are here every time, and that is 
it. I do not think it is right. 

3C: If you are lucky, Darlene Waite who is writing this up for 
the Herald ( High Springs Herald ) will use your quote in 
her story and they can all read it. 

Our father, always said this was God's Country. When he 
went anywhere, he said, I am getting back to God's 
Country. 

I know you're wondering why I did not talk. I went to the 
dentist and I just could not. I have an impediment of 
speech and I just could not get up and talk. 

In 1730, my family came from Scotland and settled on the 
Cape Fear River in North Carolina and my father was the 
first of the family to ever move away from the 700 that 
lived there and they were all related, intermarried in the 



24 



clan. It looks very much like Alachua and I have a special 
affinity for this area. We stayed here because our 
children were here and I have come to love it. I really 
wanted to go home. I wanted to go back to North Carolina 
but it is egually as pretty here. That is a big city 
compared to where I really came from. I grew up in a 
little town next to Miami, but my heart has always stayed in 
the small town and I truly love it here. I have grown to 
love it and the people, but I never found that this town 
was unfriendly. I have heard that but I think that in order 
to have a friend, you have got to be a friend and so this 
is what our family lives by and we are all very close and I 
have found it a delightful place to live and I hope to be 
buried here. 

I learned something tonight about the nature of the 
traditions and family and I think it first hit me with the 
Irbys when they said one of their family traditions was to 
serve people and to work with people and I started 
thinking about the other Irbys that I have met here and 
there in the last few months here and that is really true. 
Now there is a history of a family who are taking the steps 
to work with other people and to help other people and that 
is a very important family tradition and very important 
value of this community, that we could have families like 
that here. I heard it again when Mr. Lundy was talking 
about his children who are teachers and grandchildren in 
the ministry. I think in our families and in Alachua, in 
general, we have that as some continuity between the 
generations. We are certainly seeing it in our different 
panels here, people who have taught school, people who have 
helped other people in this community. That is a very 
important value. The other value and the other, continuity 
that I heard was, as I mentioned, was Miss Hagan 
stories of the place. I think one thing we can do is take 
our children, take our neighbor, take our friends out, 
drive around town, point out that spot where a car flipped 
over four times. There is continuity there. Cars have 
been flipping over for fifty, sixty years now. That part 
of our continuity through the generations is making this 
place our own by the things, the meanings we give to 
different places and different peoples. 

I think another thing we have as far as the continuity of 
generations and, the values we have are our names. Our 
names are part of the places and part of those incidents 
and part of the people themselves. As Mrs. Hagan was 
talking to, as I said earlier, Miss Letha Decoursey, this 
week and she said that her grandfather saw her name in a 
vision before she was born so there was a continuity that 
went back a hundred and fifty years there, just with her 
first name Letha. That is what she was called. I think 
those are some important parts of our continuity and part 
of our generation here. Now, two things of importance: 
First of all, there is some hot pizza in back, compliments 



25 



of the Pizza Barn. So we can all have a snack of some 
pizza. After that, the videotape of Bonnie Fincher Robarts 
and Barney Cato, up here. 



26 



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