University of California Berkeley
All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal
agreement between the Regents of the University of
California and Arthur H. Breed, Jr. dated June 15, 1977.
The manuscript is thereby made available for research
purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript,
including the right to publish, are reserved to The
Bancroft Library of the University of California
Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for
publication without the written permission of the
Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of
California at Berkeley.
Requests for permission to quote for publication
should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office,
486 Library, and should include identification of the
specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the
passages, and identification of the user. The legal
agreement with Arthur H. Breed, Jr. requires that he be
notified of the request and allowed thirty days in
which to respond.
Regional Oral History Office University of California
The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California
Earl Warren Oral History Project
Arthur H. Breed, Jr.
ALAMEDA COUNTY AND THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE: 1935-1958
An Interview Conducted by
Gabrielle Morris
Copy No. /
1977 by The Regents of the University of California
Arthur H. Breed, Jr.
ca. 1950
OAKLAND TRIBUNE
April 21, 1989
(b. 1904)
Former state senator
Arthur Breed Jr. dies
Arthur Breed Jr., who repe-
sented Oakland in the state As
sembly and state Senate for 24
years, died Tuesday on the deck
of the steamer Delta Queen near
Natchez, Miss.
He was 85; the apparent cause
of death was heart failure.
Mr. Breed, whose father Aru-
thur Breed Sr, was also a state
senator, served in the state As
sembly from 1934 to 1938 and
then advanced to the state Sen
ate seat vacated by William F.
Knowland.
Mr. Breed, a Republican, held
the seat from 1938 through 1958,
when he retired.
During his time in the legisla
ture, he was particularly inter
ested in transportation matters
and in 1984 the stretch of Inter
state 580 between Castro Valley
and the Altamont Pass was
named for him. Mr. Breed also
supported the creation of the
Bay Area Rapid Transit District
Born in Brookdale, Santa Cruz
County, Mr. Breed was a mem
ber of the first class to graduate
from Piedmont High School, and
he graduated from the Universi
ty of California at Berkeley in
1927.
He was president of Broad-
more Improvement Co., an Oak
land development firm that
helped build some of the early
subdivisions in San Leandro and
Orinda.
Mr. Breed was a board mem
ber and former president of the
California State Automobile As
sociation; a former board mem
ber of Blue Cross of California
and the Shriners Hospital for
Crippled Children and a former
board member of Coast Savings
and Loan.
He is survived by his wife,
Margaret Breed of Piedmont; a
Arthur Breed Jr.
Memorial service Tuesday
daughter, Martha H. Breed of
Oakland; and his son, George
Breed of San Francisco.
A memorial service will be
held at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, at the
Tower Chapel of Mountain View
Cemetery, 5000 Piedmont Ave.
Donations to a charitable
cause IB lieu of flowers are sug
gested.
TABLE OF CONTENTS Arthur H. Breed, Jr.
PREFACE i
INTERVIEW HISTORY ix
I PERSONAL BACKGROUND 1
Arthur H. Breed, Sr., in the State Senate 1
Civic Experience and Political Campaigning 6
II OBSERVATIONS ON A LONG LEGISLATIVE CAREER 12
Assembly Ground Rules in 1935 12
Local Issues: South Bay Aqueduct 15
General and Special Funds: Highways 17
Interest Groups and Campaign Finance 20
Bay Area Transportation Developments 24
III SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE LEADERSHIP 29
The Budget Process 29
Fiscal Controls 33
State-Local Revenue-Sharing 35
Redevelopment Legislation 38
Tidelands Oil Revenues 39
Department of Finance and the Legislature 41
IV SOME CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES 43
Public Health and Health Insurance 43
Federal Funds 47
University of California: Loyalty Oath, Higher Education Planning 49
V SUMMING UP 53
Political Life in Alameda County 53
Earl Warren s Early Career 55
Leaving the Legislature, 1958 58
INDEX 61
PREFACE
The Earl Warren Oral History Project, a special project of the Regional
Oral History Office, was inaugurated in 1969 to produce tape-recorded interviews
with persons prominent in the arenas of politics, governmental administration ,
and criminal justice during the Warren Era in California. Focusing on the years
1925-1953, the interviews were designed not only to document the life of Chief
Justice Warren but to gain new information on the social and political changes
of a state in the throes of a depression, then a war, then a postwar boom.
An effort was made to document the most significant events and trends by
interviews with key participants who spoke from diverse vantage points. Most
were queried on the one or two topics in which they were primarily involved; a
few interviewees with special continuity and breadth of experience were asked to
discuss a multiplicity of subjects. While the cut-off date of the period studied
was October 1953, Earl Warren s departure for the United States Supreme Court,
there was no attempt to end an interview perfunctorily when the narrator s account
had to go beyond that date in order to complete the topic.
The interviews have stimulated the deposit of Warreniana in the form of
papers from friends, aides, and the opposition; government documents; old movie
newsreels; video tapes ; and photographs. This Earl Warren collection is being
added tc The Bancroft Library s extensive holdings on twentieth century California
politics and history.
The project has been financed by four outright grants from the National
Endowment for the Humanities , a one year grant from the California State Legis
lature through the California Heritage Preservation Commission, and by gifts from
local donors which were matched by the Endowment. Contributors include the former
law clerks of Chief Justice Earl Warren, the Cortez Society, many long-time sup
porters of "the Chief," and friends and colleagues of some of the major memoirists
in the project. The Roscoe and Margaret Oakes Foundation and the San Francisco
Foundation have Jointly sponsored the Northern California Negro Political History
Series, a unit of the Earl Warren Project.
Particular thanks are due the Friends of The Bancroft Library who were
instrumental in raising local funds for matching, who served as custodian for all
such funds, and who then supplemented from their own treasury all local contribu
tions on a one-dollar-for-every-three dollars basis.
The Regional Oral History Office was established to tape record autobiogra
phical interviews with persons prominent in the history of California ar.d the
West. The Office is under the administrative supervision of James D. Hart,
Director of The Bancroft Library.
Amelia P. Fry, Director
Earl Warren Oral History Project
Willa K. Baum, Department Head
Regional Oral History Office
30 June 1976
Regional Oral History Office
-3t The Bancroft Library
University of California at Berkeley
EARL WARREN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Principal Investigators
Ira M. Heyman
Lawrence A. Harper
Arthur H. Sherry
ii
Advisory Council
Barbara Nachtrieb Armstrong *
Walton E. Bean
Richard M. Buxbaum
William R. Dennes
Joseph P. Harris
James D. Hart
John D. Hicks *
William J. Hill
Robert Kenny*
Adrian A. Kragen
Thomas Kuchel
Eugene C. Lee
Mary Ellen Leary
James R. Leiby
Helen R. MacGregor *
Dean E. McHenry
Sheldon H. Messinger
Prank C. Newman
Allan Nevins *
Warren Olney III
Bruce Poyer
Sho Sato
Mortimer Schwartz
Merrell F. Small
John D. Weaver
Project Interviewers
Amelia R. Fry
Joyce A. Henderson
Rosemary Levenson
Gabrielle Morris
Miriam Feingold Stein
Special Interviewers
Orvllle Armstrong
Willa K. Baum
Male a Chall
June Hogan
George W. Johns
Frank Jones
Alice G. King
Elizabeth Kerby
James R. Leiby
Dillon Myer
. Harriet Nathan
Suzanne Fiess
Mortimer Schwartz
Ruth Teiser
* Deceased during the term of the project
iii
EARL WARREN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
(California, 1926-1953)
Interviews Completed - June 1977
Single Interviev Volumes
Amerson, A. Wayne, Northern California and Its Challenges to a Negro in the
I4id-1500s, with an introduction by Henry Ziesenhenne. 197 1 *, 103 p.
Carty, Edwin L. , Hunting, Politics, and the Fish and Kane Comniasicn. 1975, IQl* p.
Chatters, Ford, View from the Central Valley: The California Legislature, Voter,
Politics, and The State Personnel Board, with an introduction by Harold
Schutt. 1976, 197 p.
Dellums, C. L. , International President of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car
Porters and Civil Rights Leader, with an introduction by Tarea Pittman.
1973, 159 p.
Paries, Mclntyre, California Republicans, 2934-1953. 1973, 155 p.
Graves, Richard, Theoretician, Advocate, and Candidate in California State
Government. 1973, 219 p.
Huntington, Emily H. , A Career in Consumer Economics and Social Insurance,
with an introduction by Charles A. Gulick. 1971, 111 p.
Jahnsen, Oscar J. , Enforcing the Lou Against Gambling, Bootlegging, Graft,
Fraud, and Subversion, 2922-1942. 1976, 212 p.
MacGregor, Helen S. , A Career in Public Service with Earl Warren, with an
introduction by Earl Warren. 1973, 2^9 p.
McGee, Richard Allen, Participant in the Evolution o f American Corrections:
1932-1973. 1976, 223 p.
McLaughlin, Donald, Careers in Mining Geology and Management, University
Governance and Teaching, with an introduction by Charles Meyer. 1975, 318 p.
Patterson, Edgar James, Governor s Mansion Aide to Prison Counselor, with an
introduction by Merrell F. Small. 1975, 79 p.
Pittman, Tarea, NAACP Official and Civil Rights Worker, with an introduction
by C. L. Dellums. 197 1 *, 159 p.
Powers, Robert B. , Law Enforcement, Race Relations: 1930-1960, with an
introduction by Robert W. Kenny. 1971, 180 p.
Rumford, William Byron, Legislator for Fair Employment, Fair Bousing, and
Public Health, with an introduction by A. Wayne Amerson. 1973, 152 p.
Sherry, Arthur H. , The Alameda County District Attorney s Office and the
California Crime Commission. 1976, ] 1.6 p.
Small, Merrell F. , The Office of the Governor Under Earl Warren. 1972, 227 p.
Taylor, Paul Schuster, California Social Scientist, three volumes.
Volume I - Education. Field Research, and Family, with an introduction by
Lawrence I. Hewes. 1973, 3^2 p.
Volumes II and III - California Water and Agricultural Labor, with
introductions by Paul W. Gates and George M. Foster. 1975, 519 p.
iv
Mult i -Interview Volumes
PERSPECTIVES ON THE ALAMEDA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY S OFFICE, with an
introduction by Arthur H. Sherry. Three volumes.
Volume I - 1972, 137 p.
Mullins, John F. , HOD Earl Warren Became District Attorney.
Balaban, Edith, Reminiscences about Nathan Harry lUller, Deputy District
Attorney, Alameda County.
Kami in, Judge Oliver D. , Reminiscences about the Alameda County District
Attorney s Office in the 1920s and 30s.
Shav, Mary, Perspectives of a Newspaperwoman.
Shea, Willard W. , Recollections of Alameda County e First Public Defender.
Volume II - 1973, 322 p.
Chamberlain, Richard H. , Reminiscences about the Alameda County District
Attorney s Office.
Jester, Lloyd, Reminiscences of an Inspector in the District Attorney s
Office.
Heinrichs, Beverly, Reminiscences of a Secretary in the District Attorney s
Office.
Severin, Clarence E. , Chief Clerk in the Alameda County District Attorney s
Office.
Spence, Homer R. , Attorney, Legislator, and Judge.
Daly, E. A. , Alameda County Political Leader and Journalist.
Bruce, John, A Reporter Remembers Earl Warren.
Volume III - 197^, 165 p.
Coakley, J. Frank, A Career in the Alameda Countu District Attorney s
Office.
Hederman, Albert E. , Jr., From Office Boy to Assistant District Attorney.
Jensen, Lowell, Reflections of the Alameda County District Attorney.
Oakley, James H. , Early Life of a Warren Assistant.
EARL WARREN S BAKERSFIELD, 1971, 185 p.
Ashe, Maryann.and Puth Smith Henley, Earl Warren s Bakers field.
Gavins, Omar, Coming of Age in Bakers field.
Vaughan, Francis, Schooldays in Bakers field.
Kreiser, Ralph, A Reporter Recollects the Warren Case.
Martin, Manford, and Ernest McMillan, On Methias Warren.
THE SHIPBOARD MURDER CASE: LABOR, RADICALISM, AND EARL WARREN, 1936-1941.
1976, 276 p.
Ramsay, Ernest G. , Reminiscences of a Defendant in the Shipboard Murder Case.
Grossman, Aubrey, A Defense Attorney Assesses the King, Ramsay, Conner Case.
Harris, Myron, A Defense Attorney Reminisces.
Resner, Herbert, The Recollections of the Attorney for Frank Conner.
Johnson, Miriam Dinkin, The King -Ramsay -Conner Defense Committee: 1936-1941.
Odeen, Peter, Captain of the Point Lobos.
LABOR LEADERS VIEW THE WARREN ERA, with an introduction by George W. Johns.
1976, 126 p.
Ash, Robert S. , Alameda County Labor Council During the Warren Years.
Haggerty, Cornelius J. , Labor, Los Angeles, and the Legislature.
LABOR LOOKS AT EARL WARREN. 1970, 3.1*5 p.
Bulcke, Germain, A Longshoreman e Observations.
Chaudet, Joseph W. , A Printer s View.
Heide, Paul, A Warehouseman s Reminiscences.
Simonds, U. S. , A Carpenter s Corments.
Vernon, Ernest H. , A Machinist s Recollection.
THE JAPANESE-AMERICAN RELOCATION REVIEWED, with an introduction by Mike M. Masaoka.
Two volumes.
Volume I: Decision and Exodus. 1976, 196 p.
Rowe, James, The Japanese Evacuation Decision.
Heckendorf , Percy C. , Planning for the Japanese Evacuation: Reforming
Regulatory Agency Procedures.
Clark, Tom, Comments on the Japanese-American Relocation.
Ennis, Edward, A Justice Department Attorney Corrnents on the Japanese -Arerixm
Relocation.
Wenig, Herbert, The California Attorney General s Office, the Judge Advocate
General Corps, and Japanese- American Relocation.
Volume II: The Internment. 19 7 U , 267 p.
Cozzens, Robert, Assistant National Director of the War Relocation Authority.
Myer, Dillon S. , War Relocation Authority: The Director s Account.
Kingman, Ruth W. , The Fair Play Committee and Citizen Participation.
Hibi , Hisako, paintings of Tanforan and Topaz camps.
THE GOVERNOR AND THE PUBLIC, THE PRESS, AND THE LEGISLATURE. 1973, 177 p.
Gallagher, Marguerite, Administrative Procedures in Earl Warren s Office,
1938-53.
Scoggins, Verne, Observations on California Affairs by Governor Earl Warren s
Press Secretary.
Vasey, Beach, Governor Warren and the Legislature.
EARL WARREN AND HEALTH INSURANCE: 1943-1949. 1971, 216 p.
Lee, Russel VanArsdale, M.D. , Pioneering in Prepaid Group Medicine.
Salsman, Byrl R. , Sliepherding Health Insurance Bills Through the California
Legislature.
Claycombe, Gordon, The Making of a Legislative Cormittee Study.
Cline, John W. , M.D. , California Medical Association Crusade Against
Compulsory State Health Insurance.
EARL WARREN AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HYGIENE. 1973, 223 p.
Tallman, Frank F. , M.D. , Dynamics of Change in State Mental Institutions.
Hume, Portia Bell, M.D., Mother of Community Mental Health Services.
EARL WARREN AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH, with an introduction by
E. S. Rogers. 1973, ^09 p.
Merrill, Malcolm H. , M.D. , M.P.H., A Director Reminisces.
Stead, Frank M. , Environmental Pollution Control.
Ongerth, Henry, Recollections of the Bureau of Sanitary Engineering.
Zimmerman, Kent A., M.D. , Mental Health Concepts.
Arnstein, Lawrence, Public Health Advocates and Issues.
vi
CALIFORNIA STATE FINANCE IN THE 1940s, with an introduction by Stanley Scott.
197U , U06 p.
Links, Fred, An Overview of the Department of Finance.
Groff, Ellis, Some Details of Public Revenue and Expenditure in the 1940s.
Killion, George, Observations on Culbert Olson, Earl Warren, and Money Matters
in Public Affairs.
Post, A. Alan, Watchdog on State Spending.
Leake, Paul, Statement on the Board of Equalization.
EARL WARREN AND THE YOUTH AUTHORITY, with an introduction by Allen F. Breed.
1972, 279 p.
Holton, Karl, Development of Juvenile Correctional Practices.
Scudder, Kenyon J. , Beginnings of Therapeutic Correctional Facilities.
Stark, Heman G. , Juvenile Correctional Services and the Community.
Beam, Kenneth S. , Clergyman and Community Coordinator.
EARL WARREN S CAMPAIGNS. Two volumes.
Volume I - 1976, 32U p.
Barnes, Stanley N. , Experiences in Grass Roots Organization.
Cunningham, Thomas J. , Southern California Campaign Chairman for Earl
Warren, 2946.
Draper, Murray, Warren s 1946 Campaign in Northern California.
Mailliard, William S. , Earl Warren in the Governor s Office.
Mull, Archibald M. , Jr. , Warren Fund-Raiser; Bar Association Leader.
McNitt, Rollin Lee, A Democrat for Warren.
Volume II - 1977, in process.
Feigenbaum, B. Joseph, Legislator, Partner of Jesse Steinhart, Aide to
Earl Warren.
Knowland, William F. , California Republican Politics in the 1930s.
Ladar, Samuel, Jesse Steinhart on Race Relations and Earl Warren.
McCormac, Keith, The Werdel Delegation of 1952, Nixon s Fund, and For America.
Steinhart , John , Jesse and Amy Steinhart.
CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATS IN THE EARL WARREN ERA. 1976,
Clifton, Florence, California Democrats, 1934-1950.
Clifton, Robert, The Democratic Party, Culbert L. Olson, and the Legislature.
Kent, Roger, A Democratic Leader Looks at the Warren Era.
Outland, George, James Roosevelt s Primary Campaign, 1950.
Post, Langdon, James Roosevelt s Northern California Campaign, 1950.
Roosevelt, James, Campaigning for Governor Against Earl Warren, 1950.
BEE_ PERSPECTIVES OF THE WARREN ERA. 1976, 186 p.
Rodda, Richard, From the Capitol Press Room.
Phillips, Herbert L. , Perspective of a Political Reporter.
Jones, Walter P., An Editor s Long Friendship with Earl Warren.
HUNTING AND FISHING WITH EARL WARREN. 1976, 186 p.
Cavanaugh, Bartley, A Mutual Interest in Government, Politics, and Sports.
Lynn, Wallace, Hunting and Baseball Companion.
vii
THE WARRENS: FOUR PERSONAL VIEWS. 1976, 137 p.
Albright, Horace, Earl Warren Job Hunting at the Legislature.
Stone, Irving and Jean, Earl Warren s Friend and Biographer.
Henderson, Betty Foot, Secretary to Two Warrens.
Swig, Benjamin H. , Shared Social Concerns.
EARL WARREN: VIEWS AND EPISODES. 1976, 250 p.
Hale, Mildred, Schools, the PTA, and the State Board of Education.
Kerr, Clark, University of California Crises: Loyalty Oath and the Free
Speech Movement.
Kragen, Adrian, State and Industry Interests in Taxation, and Observations
of Earl Warren.
McConnell, Geraldine, Governor Warren, the Knovlands, and Columbia State Park.
McWilliams, Carey, California s Olson-Warren Era: Migrants and Social Welfare.
Siems, Edward H. , Recollections of Masonic Brother Earl Warren.
EARL WARREN: THE CHIEF JUSTICESHIP. 1977, 2l*5 p.
Brownell, Herbert, Earl Warren s Appointment to the Supreme Court.
Finkelstein, Louis, Earl Warren s Inquiry into Talmudic Lou.
Hagerty, James, Campaigns Revisited: Earl Warren, Thomas Dewey, end
Daight Eisenhower.
Oliver, William, Inside the Warren Court 1953-54.
Richman, Martin F., Law Clerk for Chief Justice Warren, 1956-57.
Stassen, Harold, Eisenhower, the 1952 Republican Convention, and Earl Warren.
EARL WARREN AS EXECUTIVE: SOCIAL WELFARE AND STATE PARKS. 1977, I 1 * 7 p.
Drury, Newton, A Conservative Comments on Earl Warren and Harold lakes.
Schottland, Charles I., State Director of Social Welfare, 1950-54.
viii
EARL WARREN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
(California, 1926-1953)
Interviews in Process - June 1977
Single Interview Volumes
Breed, Arthur
Brown, Edmund G. (Pat)
Carter, Oliver [deceased]
Gordon, Walter [deceased]
Kenny, Robert [deceased]
Kuchel, Thomas
Olney, Warren
Sweigert, William
Wollenberg, Albert
Multi-Interview Volumes
THE GOVERNOR S FAMILY
Warren, Earl Jr. , California Politics.
Warren, James, Recollections of the Eldest Warren Son
Warren, Nina (Honeybear) [Mrs. Stuart Brien]
Warren, Robert, Playing, Hunting, Talking
RICHARD M. NIXON IN THE WARREN ERA
Adams, Earl
Crocker, Roy
Day, Roy
Dinkelspeil, J. S.
Hansen, Victor
Jorgenson, Frank
Woo ley, Mary
To be Expanded and Completed Under the Knight-Brown Project
Call, Asa
Johnson, Gardiner
Shell, Joe
ix
INTERVIEW HISTORY
An astute participant in public affairs for more than forty years,
Arthur H. Breed, Jr., provides in this short interview valuable insights
into Alameda County politics in the 1930s; the workings of the state senate
of which he was a member in the 1940s and 1950s; and a long acquaintance with
Earl Warren as district attorney, attorney general, and governor.
Cheerful, trim, and well-tailored, Senator Breed welcomed the interviewer
to a small office packed with legislative and business papers above the family
real estate firm in downtown Oakland where conversations were recorded on
16 August and 6 September 1973.
Like his father, distinguished senate leader Arthur H. Breed, Sr., before
him, Mr. Breed played a key role in senate discussions concerning the University
of California and in development of the state highway system and other aspects
of transportation. His approach to legislative responsibilities is simple and
direct: "I like people; I like to accomplish things; I like to help people solve
their problems."
In the interview, he also speaks of the duty of a legislator to "look far
enough ahead to see problems and meet the need before they become acute," and
notes that all legislation is a matter of compromise. Adding that one must
see all sides of a question, he outlines a few of the budget compromises he
supervised in his work with the Senate Finance Committee.
After twenty years in the senate, the press of the family business, which
has contributed much to land development in Alameda County, plus the fulltime
legislative workload led the senator to decline to seek re-election. In 1977,
he is still active in business and community affairs and continues his interest
in the University, offering practical advice to this project for the continuance
of its governmental studies.
Mr. Breed reviewed the edited transcript of the interviews, making a few
additions and revisions, and supplied several illustrative photographs from
his large collection of legislative memorabilia.
Gabrielle Morris
Interviewer-Editor
16 August 1977
Regional Oral History Office
486 The Bancroft Library
University of California at Berkeley
I PERSONAL BACKGROUND
[Date of Interview: August 16, 1973]
[Begin tape 1, side 1]
Arthur H. Breed, Sr. in the State Senate
Breed: I ll be glad to answer your questions or however you want to handle
this.
Morris: Okay. To begin with, tell us something about your personal background.
Breed: Yes. I see you have a note here about parents. My father was born in
San Francisco in 1865 and lived there with his parents. At a very
early age, he became interested in buying property in San Francisco
sand lots and did rather well, and then moved to the East Bay because
of the health of his mother. That was in the 1880s.
My mother was born in Ohio. Her parents brought her to Oakland
about 1883, and lived the rest of their lives here in Alameda County.
Morris: Your mother s family moved from Ohio out to Oakland.
Breed: Out to California, yes. Mother and Father were married in 1893.
Morris: What was your mother s maiden name?
Breed: Carolyn Hall. As for myself, I m the youngest of four children. I
have two brothers and a sister I seem to be the only one that had an
interest in public affairs public service in which, of course, my
father distinguished himself.
Years ago, out of necessity in the depression, my father ran and
was elected the auditor and assessor of the City of Oakland.
Morris: This was when?
Breed: In the Panic ot 93 the so-called Bankers Pi pic my father and
mother went to the Chicago World s Fair on their honeymoon. While
they were away, the Bankers Panic hit. When Dad came back, he was
worse than broke; he was in good shape when he left, but he had a few
mortgages he owed on, he was worse than broke. He owed money because
of his commitments.
Then, in order to support his young family, he needed to have
some sure income. The real estate business was very quiet and dull.
He spoke to his friend, Guy C. Earl, who suggested that he run for
the office of auditor and assessor of the City of Oakland.
It was out of that acquaintanceship with Guy Earl, who later was
a regent of the University of California in fact, at the time he died,
he was chairman of the finance committee of the Board of Regents of
the university that my father got interested in politics. Guy C,
Earl was a state senator* and was also my father s attorney, and my
father helped him in his campaign; Dad knew nothing about politics but
was evidently so effective that Earl brought him in as part of his
team.
Morris: As an adviser on Sacramento matters?
Breed: No. In those days, we did not have direct primaries but party
conventions which made the party nominations. In those days, there
was just one predominant party and that was the Republican party.
Those nominated were as good as elected.
Earl was a very smart, capable person I was going to say
"manipulator" and I mean it in the kindest way. He was very capable
in that way; in fact, he was the one who engineered my father was a
part of it George C. Pardee s election as governor of California.
My father became active and was chairman of the Republican county
committee; in fact, he was chairman of the county committee when
Hiram Johnson ran for governor and was elected. My father had this
kind of experience in Alameda County that was a build-up for him to be
elected to the state senate.
He was elected in 1912 and his first session was 1913. He served
in the state senate for twenty-two years, eighteen years of which he
was president pro tern of the senate, the highest office the senators
Represented Alameda County 1893-1896.
Breed: can elect one of their members to be. Right up to the time he
voluntarily retired from the senate.
Morris: He s remembered for his distinguished work in developing the state
highway program; was that his major interest?
Breed: I would say one of his major interests was looking after the University
of California, and I could tell you some stories concerning that.
UC President Benjamin Ide Wheeler came to Sacramento to represent
the university; this was my father s first session. He said to
President Wheeler, "Why are you up here?"
He said, "Well, I m here to plead the case of the University of
California."
My father said, "Well, why am I here? It s in my district. You
go home and sit on your dignity as president of the university and
I ll wrestle with these fellows in the legislature. If I don t do a
good job, you d just better elect another senator!"
Wheeler was a little bit amazed at that kind of talk. He went
and asked his friend, Guy C. Earl, "What about this fellow, Breed?"
Earl replied, "You can rely on anything that he tells you."
From then on, my father had for one of his main interests the
University of California. So all during his life he had this warm
relationship.
I think it was kind of interesting because my father had very
little formal education; he never even graduated from high school.
He was just naturally bright and studied and even developed his own
system of algebra.
-*
My sister, who was a math major at Cal and belonged to the
mathematical honor society, told me she was amazed at our father s
knowledge of mathematics and algebra. She taught math later and did
graduate work in this field. I thought it was interesting.
He was elected to be a member of the Order of Golden Bear, a
signal honor for one who had never attended any university whatsoever.
Morris: You yourself went to the university, and you said your sister did;
did all four of you go?
Breed: Just my sister and I attended the University of California.
Morris: Was it a help or a hindrance to have your father and President Wheeler
well known to each other?
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris :
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Well, help in what way? I just don t quite see what you mean?
For a student, it must be an interesting experience to have
Well, the university was so large that the fact that my father was in
the senate made no difference, other than the one time my fraternity
wanted to borrow a tall children s playground slide to be used as an
entrance to a dance at the fraternity house. I went into Bob Sproul
who was comptroller; that was about the only time that I got any con
sideration that any other student might not get.
No, it was never mentioned; there was no advantage or disadvan
tage.
I see. What did you study here as your major field?
I started in on a pre-legal and then transferred to the College of
Commerce. I did not graduate from the University of California
because I changed my orientation; I thought that law was what I
wanted and then decided it wasn t.
I dropped out of the university in the middle of my studies
there.
When was this?
My class was the class of 27 at the university. But I think I have
as deep an affection for the university and a closeness to it as if I
had gone through and graduated from the university.
Who do you recall on the faculty? Anybody in particular for whom you
felt a warm spot or who really opened up an idea to you?
Oh yes, yes. There were a number of men, but particularly I remember
a history professor Professor McCormick inspired me very much with
his simple explanation of the purpose of history when I complained to
him about remembering dates of battles.
He said, "Did you ever think of these people as living people
reacting exactly the same way that you would? If I stuck a pin in
you, you d jump and say ouch , and they would have too. You think of
them as just reacting in the same way you would react today."
That is the purpose of history and why we study so that we can
make our predictions as to what people will do in the future, if we
know under what conditions they have operated in the past. To me this
opened up a whole new concept of and interest in history as a result.
That s why I still remember it today.
Morris: I should say so; that s a very vivid statement of what history is all
about.
When you left the university, did you begin right away as your
father s assistant?
Breed: No. I was in the stock and bond business with a firm called William
Cavalier and Company. I started off as a messenger carrying securities
between the Oakland office and the San Francisco office; I would make
deliveries. Then I studied to be a bond salesman.
Then in 1928 I went to Europe on a trip that my father gave me,
with another chap. When I came back in 1929, I became legislative
assistant to my father in Sacramento. My official title was clerk of
the Senate Finance Committee.
The chairman of that committee was a Senator Inman of Sacramento.*
He was really my official boss, but I operated out of my father s
office. In this way, I was associated with many great men and able
to observe them because my father and I lived at the Sutter Club and
some of the senators also lived there. I was privileged to ha\ ^ break
fast and dinner with a number of the senators who were friends of my
father there.
They had a Monday Night Club, a social gathering of the majority
of the senators. I was the only outsider who was not a senator. The
sergeant-at-arms, the lieutenant governor, and the secretary of the
senate were there, and I was the only one who was not a senator other
than those I ve mentioned.
Morris: What an experience for a young man!
Breed: Yes. I learned to admire these men. I could meet them almost as an
equal. It was also a great pleasure for me in later years; then I,
too, was a senator serving with those men whom I had looked up to as
a young man. Then to be on a first name basis with them when I became
a senator was kind of a special thrill for me.
Morris: I should think so. Going back just one bit, was it the 1929 depression
that decided you to leave the stock and bond business?
Breed: Yes, plus the fact that I had the opportunity to go to Europe. But it
was the general tightening of conditions, the lack of sales of bonds
and so forth, that caused me to decide to leave that business.
J.M. Inman served in the senate from 1911 through 1934.
Morris: It was your interest in getting out into the business world that
made you decide not to go back to the university?
Breed: Yes, that was part of it, yes.
Civic Experience and Political Campaigning
Morris: With your acquaintances through your father s service in local affairs,
were you aware at all of Earl Warren as district attorney in those
late twenties? Any contact with him?
Breed: Oh yes, yes. I was active in the Oakland Junior Chamber of Commerce.
We had a very active group that were doing all kinds of things here
in the community. We founded the organization and we had close asso
ciation with the other junior chambers in other cities and attended
their meetings. Some of us were active in politics through an organi
zation called the Young Republicans and later the Republican Assembly
that endeavored to participate in campaigns.
Earl Warren was active in that regard, as district attorney. We
would see him at meetings and confer with him at meetings on different
political problems in the county and in candidates campaigns. I
became acquainted with him and aware of him before I ever held public
office.
Morris: Is this the California Republican Assembly?
Breed: Yes.
Morris: That s got an interesting history; wasn t it one of the first grassroots
organizations?
Breed: That was the idea, yes.
Morris: Did you help in the founding of that in the Oakland area?
Breed: Yes, I did. First I signed up a number of my friends in Bill Knowland s
Young Republicans, then later in the Republican Assembly. There was a
feeling that there was a need for young men to take an active part in
politics. So I think I was one of the active organizers, as it were.
Morris: Was Warren a senior adviser, or was he active personally?
Breed: He was kind of a senior adviser. He had a warm personality. There
were two factions in Alameda County. There was the Mike Kelly faction,
Mike Kelly was classified as a political boss. He was interested in
Breed: good government but interested in local affairs city and county
office holders.
Then there was the Knowland camp, of which Earl Warren was a
part. As far as us young fellows were concerned, we were neutral.
It then finally developed that some of our friends were in the Mike
Kelly camp, but we all knew Bill Knowland and Russell Knowland there
because they were both in the Junior Chamber of Commerce and we were
friends with them very good friends. We had friends in both camps.
Morris: I m interested that you say that Mike Kelly was interested in good
government, because normally good government and "boss" don t go
together.
Breed: Well, let me explain this. If Mike Kelly was not thoroughly honest
and reliable, the Knowlands had the district attorney in their camp
as friends, Mike Kelly would have been run out of Alameda County so
long before any of us were active that we never would have known who
he was or heard of him.
All he ever asked any person to do was to do an honest job. If
somebody that he supported did not, there are cases on record where
Mike Kelly went to them and said, "Look, you did something you
shouldn t do; now you resign."
Mike Kelly supported me. I signed up a lot of people with Bill
Knowland s Young Republicans; as I say, I was completely neutral. I
said to Bill, "What are you going to do? What are your plans for the
organization?" He said he d let me know, but he never did tell me or
get in touch with me or take me into his camp, so I felt he gave me
the cold shoulder.
I had some friends in the Mike Kelly group; I had that support
when I ran. I had the Knowland support also. I was kind of forced
into the Mike Kelly group; Mike Kelly had supported my father and I
asked Dad about Mike Kelly. He told me he was absolutely honest and
reliable.
I can tell you that, while Mike Kelly supported me, he never at
any time asked me to vote for or against any legislation whatsoever,
and he never asked me to do anything that wasn t right and proper.
The only thing he seemed to be interested in was helping people be
appointed or elected to office.
As far as I was concerned, I can certainly tell you that he was
a fine, honest, honorable man, though he had that reputation of being
a political boss. He really wasn t a boss; he was just a person who
8
Breed: enjoyed the game of politics. As far as I know, he never received
any personal benefit of any kind because of his activities.
Morris: That s a valuable comment.
Breed: That s my own personal experience.
Morris: It s really very helpful to have people who knew and worked with this
variety of people. So Kelly supported you when you ran for the
assembly, and which of the Knowlands did?
Breed: J.R. Knowland, who was the father of Bill and Russell Knowland. I
had support from both the Mike Kelly camp and the Knowlands. Always
every time I ran.
Morris: What made you decide to run for elective office?
Breed: In 1929, when I was up in Sacramento with my father, I would observe
what was going on. I was keenly interested. I came to the conclu
sion that if I couldn t do as well as some of these assemblymen, I d
better walk west till my hat floated. I felt that this was interesting;
I loved it. I just took to politics.
I don t want to be misunderstood it s a fascinating game. It
is a game; all life s a game. This is a fascinating game; I felt I
had some aptitude for it. I like people; I like to accomplish things;
I like to help people solve their problems. I felt I could get along
with people well, and so I was interested in that.
Then I was active in the Junior Chamber and we got talking about
politics. We came to the conclusion we should have somebody holding
office, not just be a bunch of boy scouts doing good here but get
into the game.
I knew my father was not running for re-election, but nobody
else knew it. I told my friends that my father wasn t going to run,
because I did not want to run and confuse people with two Arthur
Breeds on the ballot at the same time. They tried to talk me into
running for the senate, but I said, "No, no." I felt that I should
start at the bottom of the state picture and run for the assembly;
I didn t want people to feel that I was riding on the coattails of
my father.
I went to Assemblyman Eugene W. Roland of the 16th Assembly
District, who was my assemblyman, and I told him, "You ve always
wanted my father to let you know when he was not going to run so
that you could run for the senate. I tell you that in two weeks he
will announce that he s not going to run. Therefore, you have time
Breed: to make up your mind and to make your plans so that you can run for
the senate." He thanked me very much.
I said, "Now, in addition to that, I think you d better run
because I m going to run for the assembly. You re not going to go
back to the assembly; therefore, you d better run for the senate."
My friends that had stuck their heads up above the multitude in
the Junior Chamber and showed they had ability and drive and cjuld
be counted on and were doing things in the community they agreed to
be my campaign committee for the 16th District seat in the assembly.
I ran for the assembly; Gene Roland ran for the state senate.
Bill Knowland had been in the assembly from Alameda he also ran for
the senate, and Bill Knowland was elected to take my Dad s place in
the senate. I was elected at the primary for the assembly. That
was at the primary election in 1934.
Morris: So Mr. Roland got completely left out.
Breed: He got left out. [Laughter.]
Morris: That s interesting that the Junior Chamber was such a significant
factor.
Breed: Very active in those days. We had a horse show fire down here and
the Oakland Junior Chamber decided that we should have a fireproof
exposition building that would accommodate horse shows and other
exhibitions like garden shows and so forth.
Russ Knowland was president of the Oakland Junior Chamber of
Commerce and he gathered together a group of fellows and asked their
opinion as to whether we should promote an exposition building, and
went around the room asking everybody s opinion. When they all
finished, he said, "Artie Breed, that s going to be your committee.
Good luck, and we ll back you up all the way."
And so, I was chairman of the public affairs committee. We
built the exposition building, and I had a lot of contact with city
officials and the program. I had a top-flight committee of which
Johnnie Allen later congressman was a member, and others. We
constructed the building without a bond issue, out of current revenues,
Morris: Do you mean the JCs raised money?
Breed: No, no. We developed the plans and specifications and the whole
program and ascertained what the needs were and how it could be
financed. We had plans drawn, donated architectural drawings and
10
Breed: engineering-approved drawings, and the estimates of costs, and then
sold it to the city council of the City of Oakland; it was financed
out of current revenue, not out of bond issues.
Morris: In other words, you worked over the city budget to find out where
they could shift money.
Breed: And sold them on the idea. We had a meeting where we had the
publisher of the Post Inquirer, Ingram Read, and Joseph R. Knowland,
publisher of the Oakland Tribune, and other civic leaders. I had
copies of our proposal for everybody in attendance. The committee
had really worked this thing up in thorough fashion with all the
details, we made the presentation and it took ahold and we had
unanimous support from then on.
Morris: No wonder you ended up on the Revenue and Taxation Committee. [Laughter.]
That s really an incredible example of civic accomplishment.
Breed: That was kind of a start there. And of course we went out addressing
public bodies to explain what we were doing and why and so forth.
Morris: Very valuable experience. So that you were already well known, and
favorably so, when you first ran for office.
Breed: Yes, on my own, I became acquainted in that way.
Morris: Both with civic groups and the government agencies.
Breed: That s right. That s right.
Morris: Interesting. Where is that Exposition Building? Does that still
stand?
Breed: It was just on Fallen Street no, it does not still stand toward the
estuary from the auditorium and was a part of the Oakland Auditorium.
When they built this Peralta College campus down here Laney College
they took the Exposition Building down a few years ago.
The first show in there was the spring garden show, and the
Junior Chamber had the dedication ceremony I was the chairman of it.
We drove the first pile, and I can show you pictures with the city
manager, the mayor and me driving the first pile for the building.
Then, later on, there was pageantry; we used the school kids
and had an international pageant at the dedication at the garden
show at the Exposition Building. It was used for many, many years.
Morris: That must have been a very exciting thing to participate in.
11
Breed: It was. We disigned it so that it could be used for a boat show,
with a great big high door they could bring a boat through with the
mast up, and this sort of thing; and dirt floors so that they could
use it as a cow barn or a horse barn and so on.
The building came out within five thousand dollars of our
estimate. The reason for going over five thousand was that the naval
reserve unit wanted some offices in there, and they were paying rent.
They spent five thousand dollars to accommodate a government tenant,
and that paid for itself handsomely. Otherwise, the building was
built right within the estimate that we had talked about in our promo
tion for the building. It did not go over.
12
II OBSERVATIONS ON A LONG LEGISLATIVE CAREER
Assembly Ground Rules in 1935
Morris: Were things as exciting as that when you got to the assembly?
Breed: Yes. We jokingly called the assembly "the cave of the winds." It
was a rough and tumble fight. It was far different from the senate.
You had to stand up and think on your feet, and dodge brickbats that
would be thrown at you verbal brickbats from any quarter. It s a
great place for a person to become initiated.
I ve seen fellows new men standing at the microphone talking,
and have actually seen their knees just shake because of the baptism
you re liable to get. But I d had enough familiarity with that
Sacramento picture that it never bothered me; I enjoyed it and was
fascinated with it.
I had the advantage of having discussed the background of state
problems with my father and with other senators. I felt that, really,
when I went there, I d had the benefit of almost a session or two.
Serving in the legislature, it takes a session or two before you feel
at home; to "get onto the ropes."
I d learned from my father that the first thing to do is to study
the rules and know them backwards and forwards because you get into
parliamentary debates at times; if you know the rules, you have the
advantage of a fellow legislator who doesn t know the rules. You
can either protect yourself or make the appropriate motion to get
yourself out of a tight hole or to accomplish what you re seeking to
accomplish.
Morris: Or to forestall somebody else.
Breed: That s possible too. That s right.
13
Morris: So you served two terms in the assembly?
Breed: Yes, I served two terms in the assembly. It was a time when California
was changing. There was a movement called End Poverty in California
(EPIC). We were in the Depression; this was in the middle thirties.
There was a group that came up from Southern California primarily who
didn t have much of a background, and they wanted to change things all
around. Some of us who were more conservative fought that off. It
was a very interesting time and yet a very trying time.
There were strong conflicts. It was not the harmonious gentle
men s club that I had observed in the senate. It was a rough and
tumble battle, "give no quarter" kind of experience. Very frankly,
at the end of my second session there that had been so trying, I
questioned whether I wanted to go back.
Then Bill Knowland decided that he was not going to run fir
re-election to the state senate. I very quickly announced then that
I would run for the state senate. I did, and believe it or not, I won
at the primary in 1938. We could cross-file in those days. I ran for
the senate not against an incumbent Bill had decided not to run and
that started my twenty years in the state senate.
Morris: Did Bill endorse you in addition to deciding not to run again?
Breed: I won t say that Bill endorsed me. I would say that the Tribune
supported me. I ll tell you a conversation. I went around to Bill
Knowland and I said: Now, I want you to understand if you had decided
to run for re-election, I would not run. Now that you ve decided
you re not going to run, I m going to run, and I hope to have your
support.
He said: Artie, the only thing I don t like about you is your
Mike Kelly connections.
I said: Let s analyze that. I ll just tell you what: you had a
Young Republican organization here, and I went out and signed up a lot
of members. I asked you, Bill, I m signing up these people; what are
you going to do with the organization? 1 You said you would let me know.
I haven t heard from you from that day to this, what you re going to do.
I felt that you didn t give consideration to me. Bill, you forced me
into the Mike Kelly camp. I am proud of my Mike Kelly connection, he
is an honest man.
But I said: What does it amount to? All that Mike Kelly is inter
ested in is chairman of the county central committee. When you have
the county central committee, what have you got a handful of grass!
It doesn t mean anything. Yes, when it comes to chairman of the Alameda
County Central Committee, I will vote as Mike Kelly wants. It doesn t
mean any thing !
14
Breed: I said: Bill, you cannot criticize my record because I have four
years in the assembly that you know all about; it s a public record.
Bill, you cannot criticize it because it s the same as your record.
You and I think alike on basic questions. Now, the basic question
is what kind of a senator will I make? Will I be sound, solid, honest
in my service? You have a good record to go on concerning that; mine is
so similar to your record as to fundamental principles, you can t
criticize it. Therefore, I expect to have the Tribune s support.
I said: Sure, I m a Mike Kelly man, but only when it comes to
some other things. He s never asked me to vote for or against any
legislation. So, it doesn t mean anything!
Bill made no commitment, but I did have the support of the
Oakland Tribune.
Now, I must say that his father, Joseph R. Knowland, and Tty
father were both serving as directors of the California State Automobile
Association at the same time, and that I had distinguished myself in a
legislative battle in 1937 that Joe Knowland was very pleased with.
My father and Joseph R. Knowland were also serving as directors
of the Oakland Title Insurance and Guaranty Company, where they as
young men had fought to the point of where the Tribune would not print
my father s name in the paper if they could avoid it. But they later
became good friends and got along very well.
In 1930 elections a reapportionment of the state senate was
being put into effect. Up to that time Alameda County had four state
senators. At the 1930 election one state senator would be elected to
be the sole senator representing all of Alameda County.
My father was one of the four Alameda County senators, but he had
two years more to finish out his elected term. He was not planning
on running but would finish out his term and retire from the senate in
two years .
Two of the other Alameda County senators announced they were
running for the one senate seat from Alameda County. Neither of these
two incumbent senators were acceptable to Joseph R. Knowland, and a
committee of prominent businessmen in Oakland. So they called on my
father and strongly urged him to run, promising to support him fully
including editorial support in the Oakland Tribune. My father ran and
was elected, giving up two years for a four year term.
And so Joseph R. Knowland felt very friendly to the Breeds.
Incidentally, as a footnote, I later served on the board of the Oakland
Title Insurance and Guaranty Company with Joseph R. Knowland, myself,
and I served on the board of the California State Automobile Association
with Joseph R. Knowland, myself. [Laughter.] He and I got along much
better than I have with his son, Bill.
15
Breed: I never would have gone on either of those boards ii" Joseph R. Knowland
had been opposed to me. In fact, when Bill Knowlaad went into the
service, I took his place on the board of directors of the Farmers and
Merchants Savings Bank, not because Bill Knowland had recommended me
but because well, in this case, Mr. Edson F. Adams, president of the
bank, felt that Bill and I were the type of young men he wanted on
his board.
Morris: Maybe that explains why you disagreed.
Breed: Well, I don t want to go into why we disagreed. He was not a consultant.
Bill didn t have the ability to get people to work along together and
build up a team. I like to consult; I like to work with people; I like
to work with a team.
[End tape 1, side 1. Begin side 2]
[Date of Interview: September 6, 1973]
Local Issues; South Bay Aqueduct
Morris: Before we get into other things today, I want to get: the story of the
South Bay Aqueduct on tape as an example of your concern for Alameda
County problems. How did you go about that?
Breed: We funded a study to be made by A.D. Edmonston, the state engineer, at
that 1953 session so that we would be in a position the following
session to ask for an appropriation for construction. The reason I
did that at that time, I saw this north-south fight developing and I
wanted to get in early and settle what was not connected with the
north-south fight, but merely to take care of Alameda County, which
was my responsibility. The urgency, as far as Alameda County was
concerned, was that with the drawing of water from the wells the
underground aquifers in southern Alameda County there was a natural
salt water intrusion coming in.
You must recognize that in California, two-thirds of our water is
supplied by wells. Water used for domestic purposes, used for industry
and used for agriculture comes out of wells. Geologically, these
aquifers go out under the Bay because it s the natural drainage line
of these old, old silt beds or gravel beds where the water collects.
When you take this water out, you release the pressure of water
from higher areas and the salt water goes down into the aquifer; so
there was salt water intrusion in our fresh water supply. What we
needed was to have water brought in from elsewhere, supply the needs,
16
Breed: so that there would be plenty of pressure, the natural water would
form a dam and keep the salt water intrusion out. Once you get salt
water intrusion it s ruinous as far as agriculture is concerned if it
gets up to an intolerable level.
This was partly for an area in addition to southern Alameda
County a portion of Santa Clara County, and I thought a portion of
Contra Costa County a very small part of Contra Costa County. I had
Senator Jack Thompson of Santa Clara County and Senator George Miller
of Contra Costa County join with me in supporting this South Bay
Aqueduct planning program one session before the fight over water
developed on the north-south fight, because as soon as that developed,
then everything was held up. We did get first the study then at the
next session money for construction and it is operating and did start
operating before the main arterial had taken the water to Southern
California.
Morris: Where does the water come in from to maintain this fresh water?
Breed: It is taken out of the delta near Tracy, pumped in a tunnel through
the Livermore hills, and empties into the creek at Livermore. Then
from Livermore, it flows down into the Livermore Valley, down through
Niles, and is picked up down near Sunol, for distribution down in the
south county; the idea being that the southern Alameda County water
district down there will buy this water at the canal and the local
district handles the distribution of the water.
Morris: I see. But it s moving water in from the delta down here rather than
bringing it all the way from Shasta or the other dams up north.
Breed: It is a part of the whole California Water Plan. They can, by the
control of water on the dams, do a number of things; they prevent
erosion for one thing; they prevent floods, for the second; they
generate power; and they have a steady flow on the streams for fish
and wildlife. They have water the year around so they don t have
the floods, and they have water when they need it in the dry period,
because we have many months in the summertime when California doesn t
have water quite different than it is in the east. Many of our
streams would otherwise dry up; in this way, we can pump water and
have water for these various uses at a greater number of months in
the year. Otherwise, there d be a number of months in the year
where we could not pump out of the delta.
This also has another effect. By letting this water down,
controlled through the various dams as a part of the whole system
Shasta being one big important one; Oroville is another big and
important one, as well as others in the Sierra this has the effect
of letting the water down and preventing salt water intrusion on
valuable agricultural land in the great delta of the Sacramento and
San Joaquin rivers.
Morris: Was there objection in the legislature to going ahead with this Bay
Area Aqueduct?
17
Breed: South Bay Aqueduct? No, there was not, because the way I did it was
I got the money for study first. Then once I had it, I said, "Look
we ve spent this money for study here. Now we have it and we re ready
to go ahead." The north-south fight had not really warmed up at this
point. I said, "We need this now; we have a large metropolitan area
and we re having salt water intrusion (a case of urgency, you see); we
need to have this." And it was not a big item in dollar amount.
So I got my people taken care of before the shooting began or the
lines got drawn, north and south. Had I waited for another two years,
I would have been right in the middle of that fight.
General and Special Funds; Highways
Morris: Very foresighted of you. Was it funded from the general fund or was
it federal funding?
Breed: No, it was not federal funds. It was from the state general fund.
One thing that 1 think many students must recognize if they re study
ing California and California finances as it relates to these various
programs, is that we have basically two types of funds, two general
classifications the general fund and the special funds.
The great distinctions are that there are many special funds.
Perhaps the biggest and most important are the highway funds, which
come out of the highway users fund, of which the gas tax is the big
supplier of funds. Then there are weight fees that go on trucks and
commercial carriers, and other sources such as that.
There s a very complicated formula as to the allocation of those
monies. Partly this whole program evolved by a recognition of the
needs of the various segments of government. By that I mean that the
first historically the first thing that took place when the gas tax
was first put on was to build a major skeleton highway system. That
was called the primary system.
The primary system was developed to connect state routes with our
other sister states to the north and the east the main routes and to
connect up all county seats. That was the primary system.
Then the next system was to be feeder roads farm to market roads
and supplementary roads that were considered to be of statewide impor
tance while of benefit for local concern, for people that were traveling
other than on the primary system, but necessary roads as I say, farm
to market and various classifications. These roads were the secondary
system.
18
Breed: Of course, the federal government came in on the basis of roads for
distributing mail, roads for defense purposes, roads to national
parks, and roads of national interest so that there d be a connection
through, like a transcontinental highway the famous old Lincoln
Highway recognizing that there were states that could not possibly
build the necessary highways themselves, like the state of Nevada.
That s how the Hayden-Cartwright Act came in, to take care of poorer
states so that we d have a continuous highway system through the
length of the country, of which California was a beneficiary.
Morris: Was this primary system that you just described the one that your
father worked on?
Breed: Yes. My father handled the legislation that established the primary
and secondary system, and also the funding of that by the gasoline
tax. California was not the first state to have a gasoline tax but
one of the first in the first half dozen of the country, of which
others followed. This evolved.
At first there was a one-cent tax for new construction only.
Then it was recognized that you needed money for maintenance, repair,
and upkeep. One cent went to the counties, based on the registration
of motor vehicles in those counties, as that percentage bore to the
total population of vehicles. So it was allocated by counties based
on that formula.
Then the second cent was put on the first cent was for construc
tion, the second cent was for county, and the third cent was for
maintenance, repair and upkeep, of the original three cents of gas
tax. But that was by evolution that it came along.
Then it was finally recognized, going back to the study of
1947 in which we on the Senate Highway Committee all participated,
Senator Hatfield was very active as a leader and then Collier was
asked he was a member of the committee and he was asked to carry
the bill. We all worked on that and the League of California Cities
was very active in it too.
The Senate Highway Committee, working with all groups in the
state interested in highways, endeavored to have a program that met
as much of the road and highway needs in the state as possible. So
there was a formula developed that allocated or apportioned the
monies between the state highway system, the cities, and the counties.
My father, in about 1933 I believe it was, added thirty-three
hundred miles to the state highway system. In this study of 47, we
did add some roads to the highway system after the Public Works
Department made a study as to the needs of those highways. Then
19
Breed: the legislature wrote a formula so that it would be fair to every
county and that you wouldn t pile the money in in one county and
leave somebody without any money.
That s where we had the Mayo formula (named after Senator Mayo
who proposed the formula) of allocating the money over a ten-year
period so that each county could be sure that it had its fair share
because, recognizing that while the cities have the great population,
the city people need the agricultural crops of the hinterland where
there are not so many people, and that the city people go to the back
country either for a second home or primarily for their recreation.
Morris: This had not been a sizeable factor before the Second World War the
movement of people from the cities out into the mountain areas?
Breed: Not as much. With the coming of the highways and making it easily
accessible, it made what were formerly inaccessible areas or hard-to-
get-to areas, very convenient. So the highways really were a tremendous
factor in building up the state of California ana making all p. rts
accessible for people who wanted to move about.
Then, of course, the population started to increase. The drouth
in the dust bowl of Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas caused many people
to migrate to California, the greatest voluntary mass migration in
history. With the coming of the war, we brought a lot of people out
to work in war industries, and for many years California was increasing
in population by greater than a thousand people a day. This, of course,
added great problems to California.
We were opening, in Los Angeles County, a new eight-room school
house every Monday morning. People came out here with their children
but didn t bring their schools with them. We had to just run like
the dickens in order to keep up. There were children on double sessions,
triple sessions, and in some cases four sessions in a day! I was on
a committee that went down there; we found such a case in Southern
California, the school room space was critical.
That s why the state had to provide money to aid local school
districts that did not have the taxing ability to pay for needed
schools. That s part of the duty of a legislator, to see these
problems and to look far enough ahead if you can and meet the problem
before they become so acute.
Morris: Why did the request for an increase in the gas tax in 47, if it was
going to produce a better highway system with all the economic advan
tages, why did it become such a legislative issue and one that Governor
Warren had great difficulty getting passed by the legislature?
Breed: He was not the instigator Warren got a lot of credit for a lot of
things he didn t deserve to take credit for; there were things that
had evolved before Earl Warren ever came on the state picture. This
20
Breed: highway program is a good example of that. Earl Warren came out for
these things because he recognized there was a need for them.
You must understand, in all legislative problems, the very process
of legislation is a matter of compromise. This is naturally true
because we do have a wide variety of interests in California. You
have the rural areas, the small communities with their problems, and
then you have the big city problems. It s an agreement as to how you
allocate the money, how you divide the pie up among all the members of
the family. So there are all kinds of views.
Interest Groups and Campaign Finance
Breed: Then too, very naturally, in this country, we re so well-organized
into all kinds of groups, we have many special interest groups. I
guess all of us belong to many of those. The League of California
Cities is a special interest group, the Supervisors Association is
a special interest group, and so it goes. Everybody belongs to some
group even university faculty are a special group, and students, the
list is very long.
Morris: Then there are the business and industry interest groups. On that gas
tax increase, the truckers association and the oil company groups are
referred to as the ones who tried to block the highway bill in 47.
Breed: They were more effective in the early days the oil companies in
opposing the gas tax increase. In fact, they got Governor Richardson
to veto a bill this was in my father s time and I. think this was one
of the big factors that led to his defeat.* The oil companies opposed
it.
My father had just a terrific battle on that; it was a very
interesting story. He finally got them not to fight it so hard, and
eventually got this thing over. His argument was that they were very
shortsighted; that he felt that with the development of highways, it
would mean the development of California and that more highways would
mean more gasoline used and there would be more of their products sold.
Governor Richardson supported his highway commission s plan for
financing the state highway program, which included bond issues and
increased motor vehicle taxes, approved by voters in the 1926 general
election in which Richardson was defeated. The Governors of California,
H. Brett Melendy, 1965, p. 343.
21
Breed: My father happened to meet quite by chance Mr. John D. Rockefeller Jr.
at Yellowstone. The superintendent of Yellowstone was Horace M. Albright,
a Californian whom my father knew. He introduced the two of them. I was
with my father and met Mr. Rockefeller at that time.
My dad said to Mr. Rockefeller, "Well, I ve been having a fight
with the oil companies in California, and I d like to just tell you a
little something about it. I don t understand your people in their
attitude. Here s what I m trying to do."
And he told him, he said, "I think it s very shortsighted. It
would mean more highways, the development of California. You ve just
came down through those redwoods and you said how much you admired
them and liked them, Mr. Rockefeller. Now don t you think other people
should have the opportunity to see those trees? How can we take care
of them if they don t have some highways so that they can get there
easily and conveniently?"
A strange thing. Whether it had any effect or not, Standard Oil
was not in the forefront as opponents at the next session as they had
been. Whether there s any connection there, I don t know, but I think
there was.
Another time, when he was fighting for passage of a gas tax for
highway construction, my father threatened to put the oil companies
under the Public Utilities Commission. He sent a letter to the presi
dent of one of the oil companies saying that he was going to accuse
them of being against the best interests of California and that he
thought that perhaps they should be made a public utility and so on.
He got a phone call from the president saying, "We re having a
special board meeting; what do you want us to do?" Dad said, "You
tell Mr. Charles Stevens (who was the lobbyist for the oil group)
that I want him to change all those "no" votes to "aye" votes."
Mr. Stevens did come in saying, "My God, what did you do, Senator?"
Dad said, "None of your damn business. Here s what I want you to do."
He made Mr. Stevens do a complete about-face. Then when I went into
the legislature, Mr. Stevens told me what a great pal he was with my
father. I said, "Now, Mr. Stevens, that s fine; you and I should get
along very well. But I know history and you know history; don t try
to kid me." [Laughter.]
That s just a little sidelight, but it shows ycu that these special
interests to wit, the oil companies were not working in what I would
call their enlightened self interest. I think they had a very narrow
view concerning this matter.
22
Breed: Many people I don t attach it to big companies, but I do attach it to
many people generally get a traditional position and they think they
must stand on that, and they don t realize the great value of taking
a new look and a change of their attitudes. I think this is the differ
ence between maturity and breadth and somebody that s just hard and
fast.
There s one thing that serving in the legislature teaches you
recognize that there are two sides of a problem and that the wisest
thing is to listen to all sides and then make up yojr mind, not go in
there just convinced that your side or your viewpoint is the god-given
right one entirely. That s the great thing that you learn by serving;
somebody else s opinion may be better than yours.
Morris: How did you get Mr. Stevens to be comfortable with an increase in the
gas tax again in 47? He was so opposed.
Breed: The answer :o that is this: I think the legislative committee had
sufficiently documented the case for the needs for highway improvement
by having the Department of Public Works, together with committee
staff, thoroughly document that there was the need. There was tremendous
press coverage and general public support throughout the state.
I think it was well demonstrated that public opinion was in favor
of this increase. When public opinion takes a pretuy strong viewpoint,
special interests have a very difficult time opposing it. A lot of us
had been sufficiently well indoctrinated over the years in highway
needs in the cities, counties, and the state, so much so that people
like Stevens and the trucking people had to take a reasonable position.
Morris: It has been suggested that this fight was so bitter that oil companies
as an interest group became permanently opposed to Warren some
independent companies had contributed to his campaign in 1942, but
worked against him when he was interested in the presidential nomination.
What do you think?
Breed: Oh, I don t know about that. I don t have any knowledge of that. In
the first place, I d like to make this comment, that I feel that
anybody that makes a contribution to any candidate makes a great mistake
if they feel that they are entitled to some special treatment. I just
abhor anybody that does that. I think it s completely wrong.
When people would contribute to my campaign, I felt that it was
with no strings attached. I felt if there were any strings attached,
I didn t want any part of it. I may have mentioned that Mr. Samish
sent over his brother-in-law, Frank Flynn, with some money he wanted
to contribute to my campaign. I felt there were some strings attached,
and I said, "Thank you, no. My campaign is all financed. No thank you.
Just give my thanks to Mr. Samish." I would not accept any campaign
contribution from him because I felt that there would be a price on it.
23
Breed: I feel that a public servant has an obligation to all of his
constituency. He can t be under obligation to give special favors,
just because somebody supports him. They should support him because
they believe in him that he s honest and sincere and is going to do
the kind of a job that he should do.
But it would be a horrible thing if these people and I m afraid
there are a number of people who do feel that they are obligated and
they are holding public office, and this has been true all along. I
think that s something we have to be very mindful cf when we select
people to run for public office.
Morris: Going specifically back to highways, do you know how the highway
budget came to be separate from the rest of the budget?
Breed: Oh sure, because it s special funds. The history of highway financing
in other parts of the country has been that, where the money went into
the general fund, it was used for other purposes, and it became unpopular;
the people felt that they didn t mind paying a gas tax if they knew that
they would get some benefit.
All of the highway user tax is designed to correctly meter the
use of the highways. If you didn t use the highways, you didn t pay
for them. If you did use them, you paid for them in proportion to
your use. Therefore, it was felt that they should be kept separate
from the general fund a \d it should be a separate budget.
Another thing: we wanted to have the decision on where roads
would be built, not on political bases, not by the legislature; if it
was in the legislature, it couldn t help but be a political consideration-
log-rolling and bargaining and all this kind of business. We wanted to
get away from that.
It was given to a Highway Commission that was appointed by the
governor, and the director of Public Works was chairman of it. The
state highway engineer and the highway people we wanted them to be
above politics, and engineers that would do a workmanlike job.
California, I think, has been free of scandal in regard to its
highways. I think that this has been very, very sound. The legislature
should just merely set general guidelines, like this allocation, as
I mentioned, of the Mayo amendment, to be sure that it s going to be
distributed in a fair manner. But as to where the road begins and
where it ends, that is an engineering problem and is a matter for the
Highway Commission and people who will make a study of that and be
public-minded citizens, and not on a basis of "Wei], it s going through
my district, or by Joe Silva s farm, or somebody s resort," or something
of that kind.
24
Morris: [Laughter.] I m laughing because I ve just been up in the Mother Lode,
and there is a Joe Silva who does have a farm but it s on a winding
dirt road.
Breed: He probably voted wrong [laughter] didn t support the right candidate.
I m joking.
Morris: I understand.
Breed: I know, but whoever reads this may not realize this when I say it.
Morris: You may want to edit that out.
Breed: I think so.
Morris: Did the legislature never wish even the power of review of the highway
budget, just to keep an eye on it?
Breed: In recent times, this has been an issue. I would oppose this, if it
were my decision. I felt that the system of the Highway Commission
was sound. It has been suggested in more recent years; it s a natural
reaction. Legislators get carried away with their power at times, and
it s only natural that this idea would come forward. It was not a
serious matter ever during the time I was there.
Bay Area Transportation Developments
Morris: Now, at what point did the legislators concern shift from the highway
and freeway system to seeing a need for mass transit?
Breed: This grew out, perhaps, of a long Key System strike we had (96 days)
in the East Bay, and a natural evolution of growth. There was a
question as to whether or not there was a need for luass transit.
Frankly, I think we ve gone beyond I think there s been so much
publicity concerning it that mass transit is considered more of a
panacea to the problem than it actually will in fact prove out. If
it would take care of twenty-five percent of the congestion, that
would be wonderful; but it will not relieve the load to that extent
because it is not that flexible. The automobile is completely flexible
from the point of origin to point of destination.
But mass transit on rails is fixed to the rails. In any system,
you have to recognize that you need feeder lines, you need parking
areas, you need automobiles as a part of the system in order to make
it work.
25
Breed: As to the need, I was always for a study. I recognized that some
form of public transportation fitted in as a service for a metropolitan
area in the same manner that you need harbor facilities, you need an
auditorium at public expense, you need a water system things of this
kind, where the benefits are spread out generally to the community,
even though everybody doesn t use it. You need something for the flow
of people to get around; everybody can t use their own individual
automobile.
Therefore, while I believe in private ownership, I recognize that
there is an area where there are things that can be justified in my
mind in being under public ownership. As I say, water and harbor
facilities and an auditorium and things of this kind are examples of
that.
So we would begin with a legislative study of what the needs were,
and in the case of our AC Transit I went before the city council of
Oakland and suggested they have a representative meet with other city
representatives and the county have their city attorney together
with the other city attorneys draft a piece of legislation that would
meet the need.
I had a bill prepared by the legislative counsel bureau patterned
after the Municipal Utility District Act; it was just something for
them to start on, to take apart and put back together for that. That s
how the AC Transit legislation was formed.
Then labor recognized this would be a desirable thing, and the
carmen s union came to me and wanted to participate and I welcomed
their support; they were actively supportive in tha formation of
AC Transit.
Key System, at one stage, came and wanted an amendment saying
that AC Transit had to buy out Key System. I said, No, I will not
stand for that; I ll kill the bill before I ll do it. If I do it,
I ll put you on the front page of the paper. I ll tell the people
of the world exactly what you re trying to do you re trying to put
a gun at the head of a newly-formed district. You d be in a position
of naming any price if the law said that they ]iave_ to do business with
you.
"I want it to be on a yankee trading basis that they can tell
you go jump in the bay if you can t get together. You re not
going to have, by law, an advantage over anybody h;re. I expect
"San Francisco Bay Area Metropolitan Rapid Transit Problems," Report
of the Senate Interim Committee, 1955 regular session.
26
Breed: you ll look out for your interest and I ll expect them to look out
for their interest. Just don t put in any amendment in that regard;
if it comes backif I can t take it out I ll kill the bill. It s
my bill and I ll kill it.
"But," I said, "when I do it, I ll just rip your hide off. Make
no mistake about it. That s no threat; that s a promise." I meant it.
I meant it. And I said, "Don t ever make the mistake to think I m
bluffing, because I m not. You d better get that straight. Now you
just get out of here." And they did.
That s why Key System did not effectively oppose that legislation.
They wanted to, and they wanted some advantages, but I wouldn t let
them have it.
Morris: When AC Transit did come into existence, did they in fact end up
buying the Key System?
Breed: In part; they bought some, yes. I don t know any of the details of
that. I don t know whether they bought the rails or what; I think
they bought some of the rolling stock, such as the buses the Key System
had. I don t know. I had nothing to do with that.
Morris: What interested me in reading both the rapid transit problems study
and the one on San Francisco Bay ports, is that up through the twenties,
both shipping and local trains were quite prosperous under private
auspices.* What happened that they ceased to be economically successful
private enterprises?
Breed: The Bay Bridge was constructed, for one thing, and people then took
their cars to San Francisco, where before they took the trains to
San Francisco the Southern Pacific or the Key System. Then too,
with the development of highways and normal evolution, more people
were driving automobiles. Remember, the Key System and Southern
Pacific were developed in the horse and buggy days. This is natural
evolution; this has happened all over the country, all over the world.
Morris: And it applied to the port facilities as well? The study said that
so much more material was being hauled by trucks that it affected the
local shipping.
Breed: Yes. They ve made a big change in this container-type of handling.
They can handle cargo much better that way.
"San Francisco Bay Ports," Report of the Senate Fact-Finding Committee,
California Legislature 1951 general session.
27
[End tape 1. Begin tape 2J
Morris: How did it happen that the Bay Area was the first urban area in
California to get started with rapid transit?
Breed: Because we re a concentrated area as compared with Los Angeles which
is spread out, very thin, over a very large area. Where you have a
concentration of people like you have in New York, you can have
successful mass transit.
Here in the Bay Area we have two metropolitan areas San Francisco
and down the peninsula, and the East Bay and the Bay Bridge is one
central artery between the two. You can have transit between these
two areas far more economically than you can if you spread it out in
Los Angeles where you d have to have many, many feeders from many,
many different directions. The high concentration of traffic that
you have here allows transportation to run through narrow corridors
as we do over the bridges.
Morris: Was there any problem in getting the legislature to approve a study
commission on this?
Breed: ^o, no. After all, the other legislators from other parts of the
state say, "Well, this is your territory you want to study. There
is a need. Sure, we ll go along with you for a study." Studies are
one of the easiest pieces of legislation to get through. The same
way they did a study for the Los Angeles Basin, and certainly we in
the north would not think of opposing their desire to have a study in
their area; it s no concern of ours. Let them have it. If they have
a need, and they say they have a need, certainly study it. That s
fine. No, there was not trouble about that.
Morris: I noticed that there was a recommendation in that t. .rst study that
the legislature should consider the use of some of the motor vehicle
fees for
Breed: The gas tax funds for mass transit?*
Morris: Yes.
Breed: That s still a current issue. I ve been opposed to it for one simple
reason. I think there s no question but what the motorists should
recognize their place in the community and what the needs of the
community are generally. But, at the same time, this- can go too far;
*Recommendation 4, 1955 Rapid Transit study, p. 20.
28
Breed: just because it s convenient to collect the taxes from the motorists,
to then tax one class of people to wit, the motorists for the benefit
of some other class of people, I think is just fundamentally wrong.
Now, our Auto Association has been accused of being a dog in
the manger in this regard. I say that is not true; that they, who
represent motorists, have supported the use of bridge tolls to the
tune of a hundred million dollars to help finance, as a donation,
as a gift that was money paid by the motorists using the Bay Bridge
to make BART feasible for the tube under the bay,
The California Auto Association also supported tax funds used
for studies because they recognized that any community should have a
balanced transportation system. As I said earlier, I think what we
need to have, my experience tells me, is a balanced transportation
system, so that we don t concentrate too much on one type without
thinking the whole problem out as to how mass transit is going to
take care of our needs. Will it solve the problem?
It would be the same way if somebody wanted to build another
bridge across the bay at some place where it would not serve the
people, I d say that that should be looked at with a great deal of
caution. You have to recognize just what the needs are and what will
these facilities actually do not what somebody thinks they may do
but get down with some really hard-core facts and know what you re
talking about, and then appraise it. Then, I think you can ask
everybody to help out in a proper proportion as good citizens of the
community.
I m pleading for some kind of a balance and not just talking
platitudes and saying, "Oh well, we need mass transit," if mass
transit is not going to do, in the end, what somebody thinks it s
going to do.
The same thing applies to air pollution as far as motor vehicles
are concerned; they re not the big polluters of the air, though
somebody has said, "Yes, by volume, sixty percent, cr by weight.
Well, weight is not any relationship to the amount of pollutants that
go into the air that are doing the damage. There s a lot of other
factors, such as furnaces and things of this kind, that are making
the contribution. Automobiles are a factor but they re not the big
factor. A lot of propaganda has been put out.
But motorists should bear their fair share. Here again, the
motorists have financed and supported all kinds of studies and research
by the University and others air quality control beards for these
studies. I m just pleading for getting the facts.
The signing of S.B. 987, the East Bay Transit District bill, June 9, 1955. Standing, from
left: Assemblymen Walter J. Pahl, Carlos Bee, Speaker L.H. (Abe) Lincoln; Senator Breed.
Seated: Governor Goodwin J. Knight. Photograph by Carturight S Co.
Duck hunting in Colusa, 1952. From left: Bill Park, PG5E;
Jim Corley, University of California; Senator Breed.
29
III SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE LEADERSHIP
The Budget Process
Morris: In addition to all your work on various forms of transportation, you
also spent a good part of your legislative career on the Finance
Committee. That s probably one of the most important committees to
serve on.
Breed: It is.
Morris: Originally, I thought of the question the other way around that
your experience on the finance and revenue and taxation committees
would have been helpful to your work on the transportation committee.
Did it work the other way around was your familiarity with the
transportation problems and needs useful in dealing with state
finance issues? Did other members on the Finance Committee have
their areas of expertise?
Breed: Let me explain just how the system works. Of course, any experience
you have in private life or before you go to the legislature or during
your tenure there and on various committees it all adds up to help
you understand the problem and look at it from its broadest aspects
as to the nature and extent of the problem what are the practical
solutions and what are the various forces and factors and what needs
to be looked into and how it relates to other needs, et cetera.
All of it, yes, helps. Just which is more important, it s pretty
hard to say. Sometimes one might be more than the other. It s all
beneficial.
But the point I d like to make also is the way the legislature
operates all committees. In the first place, the big bulk of the
work is by committees.
Now, the Finance Committee in considering the budget what we
did when I was there is the chairman would take the various departments
of state government and he would appoint subcommittees of the Finance
30
Breed: Committee generally a subcommittee of three senators and give them
the assignment to look into those departments budgets and to make
their recommendations to the whole Finance Committee. They would
hold their separate hearing, and the way it would votk would be this:
they d set up a schedule generally we d ask them to set up the
schedule. Then the department heads would appear before that sub
committee. When I was chairman of one of these subcommittees, what
I would do is ask the department to make its presentation. Then I
would ask the Department of Finance to make its presentation. Or,
start off with the Department of Finance and then I d ask the
legislative auditor to make his analysis; I would nhen ask the
department, "Can you go along with their recommendations?"
So we d hear the department itself the operators, if it was the
Department of Corrections or the Department of Institutions, the
University, or whoever it was appearing before us, would make their
presentation as to why they should be given the ironey requested. Next
we would have the analysis of the legislative analyst; presumably,
we d study it first and mark up our copies and have questions for them.
We would have studies as to what the workload was and questions
as to the workload and how it had increased, and why they needed
the increase am more personnel and what they did vita the last bunch
of money we gave them, and so on. Then we would write up a recommenda
tion to the entire Finance Committee. The inclination was, in many,
many cases not a hundred percent, by any means the entire Finance
Committee would follow the recommendation of the subcommittee that
went into it.
If it was something of general interest, why then maybe the
subcommittees recommendations were thrown completely out the window
and the Finance Committee did something entirely different. But this
is the process. Sometimes the subcommittee would be divided; other
times it would be unanimous. You d get every kind of combination you
could think of.
In legislative work, no one could be familiar ard expert on all
these subjects. You have to concentrate, you have to specialize and
divide the work up. In this way, by dividing it up, we were able
to get through the budget. And the various departments felt they had
their day in court.
You must understand also that the Department of Finance prepares
a budget for the governor in whatever style the governor wants. The
governor says, "Give me a tight budget; no increases unless there s
a case of urgency," or "Oh well, we can have a liberal budget," and
so on whatever it may be. Different governors have had different
kinds of budgets. Some have been liberal; some have been tight.
31
Breed: It generally works out that if the governor is easy-going and generous,
the legislature gets tough. If he s tight, then the legislature gets
generous. They say, "Let the old man veto it. Let the corner office
take care of that." They kind of balance one another.
This is the process. It may not be idealistic but it s the
practical side of it.
Morris: What you were hearing, then, was the governor s budget in pieces,
department by department.
Breed: That s right.
Morris: Then that is presented to the legislature as a whole?
Breed: A bill is introduced in the assembly and the senate, and the two
houses are considering the budget at the same time. Then, between
them, they decide which one will pass the budget first. If the
assembly passes it, it comes over to the senate. Then the senate
takes into consideration what the assembly has done. Then we work
on it, and then finally we send them our version, recognizing what
they ve done, and ours.
If they don t concur on our amendments, then it goes into a
conference committee. That conference committee then works on it
to settle the points of difference between the two houses and then
submits it to each house. If you don t resolve it at the first
conference committee, you go on to the second and to the third. Yes,
I ve seen it go to the third. Then you either take it or leave it on
that third one; that s tough going, believe me.
Morris: I can believe it. And it s always against a deadline too, isn t it?
Or it usually ends up against a deadline.
Breed: That s right.
Morris: When you were first in the legislature, those were lean years for
state revenue, because of the Depression. During World War II, when
more money was coming in than could be spent, how did you feel those
surplus revenues should be handled?
Breed: Understand this. Let s go back. Prior to the creation of the wartime
surplus, there was a period of time a defense period to the beginning
of the war where we saw the war coming; we didn t know when but we
knew it was coming. During the war we were not able to make expenditures
on state institutions prisons and mental institutions and school build
ings and things of this kind because it was in competition with the
war effort. We wanted all of our effort, all of our resources
everything to go into the war effort.
32
Breed: We had a deficit in California when this period came upon us. There
was a time when we were registering warrants; we were worse than
broke we were badly in debt. What we did, when we had this war-
generated surplus, some of us on the Finance Committee decided that
the first thing to do would be to pay off all of the debts of the
state of California where we could.
There were certain self-liquidating bonds like the bonds on the
Port of San Francisco, which the state owned. The interest and
principle were being paid off by the revenue of the port. They were
non-callable bonds; they would self-liquidate.
Then there were the veterans bonds; they were self-liquidating
by the interest and principle that would be paid in by the veterans
from World War I. Those we did not pay off.
All other bonds of general obligation, where they were callable
if they had a short maturity, we put the money in the state treasury,
earmarked it for paying off those; they drew interest because they
were invested in other bonds. Or we bought our own bonds up, thereby
having them in the state treasury; the bonds we bought we didn t have
to pay interest on because we were paying it to ourselves.
So we retired all these bonds that we could. There were some
that went back to 1873. And really there s an interesting story in
that regard. In there was five hundred dollars for the State of
California to have a stone carved with the name of California on it
to be part of the Washington Monument. There that stone is today,
and not until our time was the Washington Monument fully paid
for because we had this bond issue out [laughter]. We had paid
interest on this I forget the percentage, but it was something like
six percent that went on and on and on and on and amounted to quite
a few thousand dollars eventually. But we finally paid off our debt
for building the Washington Monument.
Then what we did, after paying off the debt, I saw as well as
others here that we were going to have the surplus and that we
needed to have a plan for allocation of the monies on some equable
basis.
You d be interested; you re connected with the University of
California: I spoke to Mr. James Corley, who succeeded Luther Nichols;
he d been Luther Nichols" assistant. About 1941, around in there,
Luther Nichols brought Jim Corley up, and then Luther Nichols resigned
and Jim Corley became comptroller of the university. During the war,
or when the war was about over, or the war was over, and I saw these
monies collecting, I suggested to Jim Corley, I said, "You have your
fellows at the university prepare plans for your needs plans and
specifications and estimates of costs, what you need for various
campuses."
33
Breed: The University had stepped forward in the thirties-- 31, 33 and had
taken their fair share of the cut and led the parade when the state
was having a hard time financially. Many other departments did not
take the same patriotic attitude about meeting the state s critical
condition as the University of California did. That was when my
father was state senator representing all of Alameda County.
I wanted to make it up to the University because I felt that they
had been penalized because they were starting from a lower floor, a
platform. The others had not come down to that same level. I wanted
to make it up to the University and felt they were entitled to it. So
I said to Mr. Corley, "You prepare these plans."
He came forward, at the next session, with plans and specifications.
That s why the University of California got money in the hundreds of
millions!
Morris: They certainly did have very good support from the legislature.
Breed: They were in there first; they were ahead of everybody else. There
were some legislators who felt that they were just getting too much.
It did build up a little resentment, but he had a wonderful relation
ship with the legislature; I think Jim Corley did an outstanding job.
Just marvelous. Anyway, that s what we did.
Then following that, we did have the State Allocation Board.* The
state real estate commissioner and the director of Finance were on there.
We felt that if they were condemning property, they should have the real
estate commissioner on there, and we should have the director of Finance.
Then there was financing for school construction. The state treasurer
was on that committee, and the controller was there because he s the
watchdog of the treasury.
Fiscal Controls
Morris: At one point I gather Alan Post had some question about the controller
and the state treasurer not keeping as close an eye as they might on
the state s interest, on the deposit of some of these surplus funds
and the getting of the best interest rates for the state. Do you
recall that as being troublesome at all?
*Appointed to make decisions on $90,000,000 appropriated for city and
county public works in 1946, referred to as the Christmas Tree Bill in
interviews of Gardiner Johnson and Richard Graves, which see.
34
Breed: There may have been something. I don t recall that particular item.
Understand this: Alan Post is a creature of, and employee of, the
legislature. Historically, as I say, the director of Finance is the
one that operates the state budget. We found that most of the people
in the Department of Finance very bright, capable people.
The state was growing to such an extent that it was no longer a
simple little matter, and we needed to have somebody that we could
rely on that would analyze the budget for the legislature. His loyalty
would be to the legislature nobody else. That s why we set up the
Joint Legislative Budget Committee. I was a member of the original
Joint Budget Committee of the senate and the assembly. This was in
Olson s time.
That came about because of a play of politics. We gave, in 1939,
the chairman of the Finance Committee to Governor Olson, because it s
his budget. He asked that Bob Kenny, a senator from Los Angeles who d
been one of his supporters treasurer, as a matter of fact and a
freshman senator, be chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. What
happened was, when the budget came from the assembly over to the senate,
and the assembly had cut out of Governor Olson s budget about eleven
million dollars, Kenny, without even holding any hearings, amended
the budget bill and put it back in the same form as it was when it had
been introduced, with everything Olson wanted in there, and totally
disregarding the assembly.
I was not a member of the Finance Committee then. Those of us in
the senate said, "You can t do that. That s a slap in the face to the
assembly, and after all, they have equal power, as far as the legislature
is concerned, with the senate, and you just don t do that."
What we immediately did a few of us got our heads together with
our president pro tern and passed a resolution creating a special budget
committee. Then we agreed that the next day we d refer the budget to
the special budget committee, and they were fellows who were not on
the Finance Committee, though we did have Bob Kenny on there. I was
named on that committee.
We worked Saturdays, Sundays and holidays, to the exclusion of
everything else and had hearings on that budget. I never worked so
hard in my life. We d start in in the morning and then go all day and
then go in the evening my golly and as I say, on the weekends. I
had budget running out of my ears. That was my indoctrination to that.
Then, what we did, we recognized what the assembly did and we
started from there. Then we cut out about an additional nine million
more. Olson had supplied a liberal budget. If he d been smart this
was at a time when we were having a tough time he d have given us a
tight budget and put the onus of raising the budget on the legislature.
35
Breed: We made him look badly, which led to his defeat, you see. He immediately
warred with the legislature, which is not a smart thing to do. Get along
with them whether you like them or not.
Just like, I ve heard fellow legislators say they d get along with
any governor even if he was a yellow dog. [Laughter.] But that illus
trates the problem.
Then we recognized, by all of this, that the budget had grown in
magnitude and the state had grown to such complexity t that we needed
somebody to analyze it for us. That s why we created the Joint Legislative
Budget Committee. Holland Vandegrift, who d been a director of Finance
under Governor Rolph, was selected to head it up. His number two man
was a very bright, young fellow from Southern California who had his
master s degree in business, and that was A. Alan Post.
Morris: He s had a remarkable tenure too.
Breed: Yes. He s the most relaxed fellow you ever saw. He sits there, and
the fighting s going on, and he s the most relaxed man in the room.
Morris: And so polite and mild spoken.
Breed: Oh yes. I m a very great admirer of Alan Post. My last session, I
was chairman of the Joint Budget Committee. If you go in his of ice,
you ll see you did at one time; I haven t been there in the last
couple of years he had the pictures of all the chairmen of all the
Joint Budget Committees.
Morris: They re still there.
Breed: They re still there? Well, you ll see my picture there. [Laughter.]
Morris: Yes. A very distinguished series of gentlemen have been chairmen of
that committee.
Breed: A few exceptions. [Laughter.]
State Local Revenue Sharing
Morris: You mentioned your disagreements with Olson on budget matters. How
did the legislature get along with Warren on the budget in particular?
Breed: Much better; much better. He left us alone and didn t try any undue
influence. All our dealings were with the department heads; the
governor didn t enter into it. He made his message his talk and we
were free to talk to him and he to us and it was all very friendly, but
he didn t try to show any muscle with the legislature on budget matters.
36
Morris: I was thinking specifically, on this matter of surplus revenues,
Warren appointed a Re-employment and Reconstruction Commission. Did
that interfere at all, or did it feed into the kinds of things that the
legislature was thinking of?
Breed: No. That was running along with the same idea that we had in mind.
We would talk with the governor about a lot of these things, and a
lot of things would evolve out of just general need, recognizing a
problem. We would go down there frequently and talk to him, and we d
see him at social events and so on.
What is your common interest but legislation? When legislators
get together, this is what you re talking about. You don t talk about
camping trips or summer vacations [laughter] or anything like that
very long.
Morris: Well, then, how did the battle develop in 1946 over what s called in
the textbooks the "Christmas Tree Bill?"
Breed: The cities and counties saw an opportunity somebody got an idea that
Morris: Dick Graves?
Breed: Yes, yes, yes. Dick Graves was one. He was, I guess, the principal
pusher of that; he wanted to get into that state surplus up there.
I voted against it. We had a luncheon at the Sutter Club where the
mayors of the various cities of Alameda County and our supervisors
came up there and they talked about this Christmas Tree Bill; they
had all of the Alameda County delegation there.
Harry Bartell, a supervisor I think he was chairman said, "Well,
now, we expect you fellows will all be for this and support it."
I spoke up and I said, "Well, I don t know why you assume that;
nobody s asked my opinion concerning it. If you re interested in how
I feel about it, I ll be glad to tell you."
Bartell said, "Oh, yes, yes."
I said, "I am opposed to it."
Bartell replied, "You represent Alameda County; you represent
all these cities; you should be for it." Different mayors and city
managers were there.
I said, "Well, I have news for you. You didn t send me to the
legislature, and there s only one group of people that I recognize
the people of Alameda County. If you think you own me, that you can
tell me how to conduct myself, you re badly mistaken. You d just
better go and work with somebody else!" And the assemblymen were all
there. I said, "Nothing doing."
37
Breed: Somebody said, "I think you perhaps had better."
I said, "Oh, I d better, huh? So I m challenged! Well now, let
me tell you something: I m coming up for election this next time,
and if I hear one hint from any one of you fellows criticizing me for
voting against this, I m going to make that the issue. And I ll tell
you what the issue will be that my position is to keep your sticky
fingers out of the state treasury. That s no threat; that s a promise!"
I said, "I ll level right at you fellows because I know who s here
and I ll find out who said it. That s going to be my position. We ll
let the people of Alameda County decide. My office my position will
be at stake, not yours. Just understand how I feel about it. I m
opposed to your getting any of that money. It doesn t belong to you;
it s the state s money. You have no claim on that money; it s not
part of the city or county treasury. How would you like it if the
state tried to come and tap your treasury for some money? The city or
the county? It s not your money; you leave it alone. As far as I m
concerned, you can get the votes elsewhere if you want, but you re
not going to have my vote." And that was it.
Afterwards, I remember, Mayor Rishell came into my office. "Well,"
he said, "Senator, I want to say that your position is not that of mine,
but I sure admire your guts! You sure made no mistake about where you
stood. It s all right; it s all right. I understand. Sure, I d like
to have the money for the city, but I don t feel harsh toward you."
I said, "Thank you, Cliff, thank you."
So there are the two different opinions. I felt strongly on
one side. They wanted the money; they got the money. It went through;
they got it. But I was part of the other side, just on fundamental
principles, that s all. And I represented a metropolitan area; in
fact, I represented the largest area in the senate represented by a
Republican. (San Francisco was represented by a Democrat; Los Angeles
was represented by a Democrat.)
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
It s interesting that Warren objected to putting surplus funds into
construction for city and county needs at the same time he supported
a state postwar building program. The Christmas Tree Bill was for
water supply and sewage plants wasn t that it?
Oh yes, but they had a pretty broad latitude pretty broad.
Could it be called an early example of revenue sharing? Did you think
it might set a pattern that would expand?
Oh yes, yes, yes. There are programs that I think are justified for
revenue sharing. I think schools is a classical one. I ve supported
state aid to schools because I think that children who happen to reside
38
Breed: in a less affluent community than another are entitled to as good an
education as those in a more prosperous community. So I think there
is a state interest there as far as schools are concerned.
Just the same, I think on the matter of highways, the state should
allocate some of its monies to the cities and the counties to be spent
by the local communities to meet their needs because people move around
and they re not always just local people; after all, they re making a
contribution to the Highway Users Fund.
I didn t feel the cities and counties in the Christmas Tree Bill
put the money in projects of state interests. This is debatable; I
recognize this. One thing you certainly learn in the legislature is
that you sometimes begin to question your own judgment because I can
see the other side; I can see the argument on the other side as to
who put the money there the citizens. But I felt it wasn t the cities
or counties money and I didn t want to establish that principle.
I recognize there are cases of revenue sharing federal, state,
city and county where it is justified. I was enough of a purist that
I just didn t want to start it. [telephone interruption]
Redevelopment Legislation
Morris: Bartley Cavanaugh, the Sacramento city manager, talks in his interview
about the Redevelopment Act. He said that this was one that you had
been very instrumental in and that he had worked with you on. Was this
postwar planning also?
Breed: Yes. This was in regard to the public housing program. Our Oakland
Housing Authority was interested in this and, of course, the federal
government was in there. Bart and I were interested in keeping it on
a sound, practical basis, controlled at the local level, not at the
federal level, by people who worked well together, where some of these
federal fellows did not enjoy the confidence of the legislature. Bart
and I felt it was necessary to take a hold of the legislation and work
it out, and we did. That s what that was.
Here again, this is recognizing the needs in our communities
because we had a lot of people who had been brought in here to work
in the war industries; they were floating around and they weren t
established. We felt there was a need for this type of housing.
Really, we were working with our local people in the legislation
protecting the local people from federal domination of the program.
Morris: I see. Was this something that the unions supported?
39
Breed: I don t remember whether they did or didn t; I think they did. I
wouldn t know why they would oppose it.
Morris: You said public housing. Dick Graves mentioned that there was also
legislation required for the redevelopment of municipal buildings
that involved revenue bonds .
Breed: He had a program in regard to that, yes. I was never enthused about
Dick Graves proposals in that regard. He wanted to borrow some
monies that were in the state treasury. He was getting around some
constitutional provisions. He was going around doing indirectly
what he couldn t do directly, and I think that s just bum business
and I opposed it. He was coming in the back door when he ought to
be coming in the front door.
He was saying we would build these by using these funds and selling
these revenue bonds here, where we felt that he should go and have a
direct bond issue and let the people vote on it. If the people wanted
it, okay; if they didn t want it, why should he do indirectly what he
can t do directly?
He, naturally, was all for the cities! If he could dump some of
their financial problems onto the state, he was for doing it. But C
didn t agree with him on that principle, even though I represented a
group of pretty large cities. I felt my obligations to the people of
the state of California. His was a selfish interest, that s all there
is to it. I guess everybody has some selfish interest, but let s label
it. That s exactly what it was, and that s why some of us opposed it.
We didn t think it was sound policy.
Morris: That was approved by the legislature, wasn t it?
Breed: The Graves proposal was not adopted. Certain types of revenue bonds
yes, yes. We were pretty leery because some of us remembered what
happened during the Depression years. The revenue bonds were the ones
that went down the drain, and the poor, innocent people that didn t
know the difference between a revenue bond and a general obligation
bond got stuck they got wiped out when there wasn t any revenue. We
didn t want to build up conditions where we d have the same thing
again that we had following the 29 crash.
Tidelands Oil Revenues
Morris: One other topic that must have caused quite a lot of uproar at the
time was the tidelands bill. Was that something that was going to
have a major effect on state revenue?
40
Breed: I don t know what you mean by major effect; it did have some effect.
I was chairman of the committee that went to Washington twice and
testified, and we did finally get a bill over dealing with these
tidelands .*
Earl Warren, I know, opposed my having a committee testify in
Washington. He said of the resolution, "Suppose it gets defeated?"
(This is when he was attorney general.) I said, "It s not going to
get defeated. Are you telling me I can t get that resolution through?"
The position was that California had traditionally had title to
its tidelands under the act of admission of California into the union.
We felt we had a contract and had acquired the right, title, and interest
to the tidelands. The federal government was completely wrong to come
in and try to take it away from us. We felt that it was a violation
of states rights. So we opposed it.
We got legislation through, and finally it was signed by the
President and that set this matter at rest. That was by federal
legislation. I was, as I say, very active in that. I was chairman
of the committee that went back there to Washington and testified
before the Senate Judiciary Committee and was successful.
But as far as the revenue is concerned, I felt that the state
was entitled to this. At one time, these oil royalty monies, we had
and I supported and thought it was very sound; we got away from it and
I regret that that a certain percentage I think it was twenty-five
percent of the oil royalty monies would go into beaches and parks.
[End tape 2, side 1. Begin side 2]
Morris: How did that work?
Breed: By legislation, we had a provision for a part of the oil royalty monies
to to into beaches and parks, on the theory that here we were depleting
on natural resource to wit, oil and that future generations should
have some benefit from that natural resource. Since we were using it
for this generation, by ploying part of the money from tideland oil
royalties into beaches and parks and redwood trees, it would benefit,
as I say, future generations for all time. That was the theory, and
that operated for some time.
*See Report of the Senate Interim Commit toe on Tidelands, 1953,
Arthur H. Breed, .Jr., chairman.
41
Breed: Then there was an abuse, the legislature felt, by Long Beach, which
was using the money instead of just for commerce and navigation
purposes as provided by law they were using it for running the city
government and every old kind of thing because they had a large
amount of oil royalties.
How that comes about is that the state had turned over to Long
Beach and other cities the tidelands, providing that they would
use it for commerce and navigation purposes. In other words, a state
purpose. They got away from it. Then the legislature changed the law
and tightened it up so that this could not be.
The Port of Oakland has the tidelands where the Oakland Airport
is now, and other submerged lands owned by the State Lands Commission
were turned over to the City of Oakland for commerce and navigation
purposes. Certainly an airport is commerce and navigation, right in
line with law.
Department of Finance and the Legislature
Morris: Going back to finance per se, in the late forties we have various
indications that the Department of Finance was making efforts at
greater control over other departments spending and making their own
administrative studies. Was this something that the legislature ap
proved of?
Breed: Yes. Somebody has to with the state growing as it has somebody has
to look over and control the various departments because human nature,
being what it is, these departments become imbued with their own
importance and they become empire-builders . They feel that if they
have another thousand people working for them, they can put in a
request for and obtain an increase in salary. So it s self-serving,
and they feel it builds up their importance. There are many empire-
builders in departments.
Now, the legislature may think it budgets; it doesn t actually
budget it passes a general outline of a budget. Then, immediately
after the legislature adjourns and the budget becomes law, then the
Department of Finance makes up a detailed budget for each and every
department and tells them what they can spend per quarter, within
the money that the legislature made available to them.
If they want to buy new furniture for their office, they have
to have first the approval of the Department of Finance. The Department
of Finance tells them how much rent they re going to pay for the space
that they occupy, and the Department of Finance makes leases, I remember
42
Breed: when I was there, on an average of at least one a day for every day in
the year. They really are the operating people of the state of
California.
Outside of the governor, the director of finance is one of the
most important people. He s ten times more important than the
lieutenant governor, the director of finance. The lieutenant governor s
value is that of a potential; he s good as governors say for coming
down in the morning and asking as to the health of the governor.
Morris: What provisions are there then for checks and balances on the Department
of Finance?
Breed: Here s where the legislative analyst comes in. The legislature is
interested in seeing to it that the departments carry out the policies
as laid down by the legislature, either by law or by resolution. There
is frequently some conflict, and here s why there s conflict sometimes
between Alan Post and the Department of Finance.
Now, the legislature should not ever consider that it is charged
with the responsibility of running the various departments that s the
administrative branch; that s the governor s department. The Department
of Finance are people under him.
As to financial matters, to see that the accounting procedures
are proper, the legislature created the auditor general in order to
make independent audits of the various departments. He is another
branch, like the legislative analyst is and like the legislative
counsel bureau. The legislative counsel bureau are the attorneys
for the legislature. The legislative analyst is the fiscal adviser
for the legislature analyst and adviser, budget expert, operations
as well, but only as adviser to the legislature. No real power other
than advisory.
The legislature does not take Alan Post s recommendations all
the time, a hundred percent. I used to tell his men there who were
disappointed because we didn t take his recommendations; you could
read it on their faces. I d say, "Look you have a value in being;
the very fact you re here makes those departments think twice before
they try to pad their budget because they know that you re going to
smoke it out, or they think you ll smoke it out. Therefore, they re
going to be careful about padding it."
43
IV SOME CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES
Public Health and Health Insurance
Morris: That s an interesting point. One topic that we re interested in
particularly in the study of the Warren years is public health, and
particularly health insurance. Do you recall a bill back in 1935
that was co-authored by Senator Tickle and a number of other legisla
tors to set up a system of health insurance funded by employers and
employees to be administered by the state?
Breed: I do not recall that bill that you speak of, though I am aware of the
fact that there were a number of bills, there were a number of studies,
all dealing with health insurance. It was coming up on the horizon as
a recognized matter that did need some kind of state legislation.
The need was recognized by the doctors when they set up Blue
Shield programs. Blue Cross was set up by, really, a group of Alameda
County doctors and some business people here. It is Blue Cross of
Northern California and has situated its headquarters in Oakland.
Morris: Do you recall who some of those Alameda County physicians or businessmen
were?
Breed: Yes.
Morris: Are they still on the board of directors?
Breed: No, they re not on the board of directors, but I can tell you exactly
who they were: Dr. Daniel Crosby, Dr. W.E. Mitchell, George U. Wood
(who was the administrator of Peralta Hospital) , and Ellard L. Slack
(who was the administrator of Merritt Hospital) , Harold Hoovenan (an
attorney), Florence Klaeser, and Gertrude Moore (she was a doctor
a pathologist, and a darn good one; doctors had complete confidence
in Gertrude Moore. I ve heard this for years.).
44
Morris: Is that a Blue Cross pamphlet?
Breed: Yes. It was incorporated July 21, 1936. Here s the articles of
incorporation right here; that s what I was reading from.
Morris: And why did state-administered health insurance fare so poorly in the
legislature? Olson put in a proposal, too, I believe.
Breed: Because there was a clash in philsophy between the government getting
in as against the private sector getting in. Blue Cross was growing;
Blue Shield was growing. The various medical societies the Alameda
County doctors came out with a public statement saying that they would
guarantee that nobody in Alameda County would be in need of medical
services anybody that had a need would be taken care of regardless
of ability to pay.
So the medical people in this county felt that they were on top
of it. They resisted government coming in on the program. They saw
what had happened in England and felt that that was a failure over
there; that may be debatable, but it was in their opinion because I
remember talking to them.
It was a resistance to the idea that if we just turn it over to
government, they can solve the problems. It was felt that the private
sector could provide a better service to the public. This battle is
still going on to some extent right now.
Morris: Yes. That s one of the reasons why it s interesting to try and trace
it as far back as you can. Were you surprised when Warren also asked
for legislation along this line?
Breed: No, because I knew Earl Warren.
Morris: I see. Can you expand on that?
Breed: Yes. Earl Warren is, I would say, quite theoretical in many of his
approaches. I know Earl Warren to be extremely sensitive. He gets
ideas and he goes at them sometimes without really studying the whole
subject.
I was on an interim committee that dealt with health insurance
and I wrote a minority report. I talked with Earl Warren concerning
the matter and he said, "Oh, Arthur, I would like to talk to you about
this." I said, "Fine and dandy, Governor. You know exactly where I
am. I ll be glad to come up and talk to you." I haven t heard from
him from that day to this. I felt we just had a basic, fundamental
difference.
45
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
I believe in free enterprise. I believe if the private sector can
meet the needs, they can do it better than government. I saw
bureaucracy get in here and have a great big colossal bureaucracy,
with the empire-builders and all that, and I felt that if the private
sector were willing to take it on and do it by various insurance
companies and pre-need, then they should do it.
Byrl Salsman was chairman of that committee.
That s right.
He apparently was quite dedicated to the proposition that
Yes. His close pal was down there in Palo Alto Dr. Russel Lee.
Dr. Lee was already involved in various kinds of pre-payment health
care plans.
That s right. He was a controversial figure, I m told,
he didn t do a lot of good; I m sure he must have.
I don t say
So your feeling is that there was not much chance r of the legislature
passing anything in the forties in the way of state support?
Well, here again, my experience was that the legislature certainly
in those times and there was certainly a group in the senate that
felt that these things had to be proven and had to be demonstrated
as being practical and sound.
A lot of people come up with ideas that may have sixty percent
good points but it has forty precent, or even ten percent, that makes
it unpalatable. I ve seen programs proposed many times that you are
sympathetic to what they re trying to do; there s no question but
what their motives were good. But there would always be some bug in
the proposal, some impracticality that just spoiled the whole program.
Do you feel that this effort to get health insurance legislation
passed in some form had an effect on Warren s political fortunes?
Well, I wouldn t attach any one thing. I think Earl Warren s main
asset is I think the public generally felt that Earl Warren was
honest, sincere, conscientious, wanted to do a good job, and I think
he did a swell job of selling that idea to the public.
I felt that when Earl came in, when Olson went out I felt that
this was a nice breath of fresh air, of some wholesomeness there. I
didn t have confidence in all the people that Olson had around him.
Morris: This seems to be a common opinion.
46
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris;
Breed :
Morris:
I may have disagreed with him on a lot of things, but I think Earl
Warren was very sincere in what he wanted. He was a good man,
certainly, for the state, and very progressive. Maybe some of us
were too reactionary; I m sure a lot of people felt that.
What about his capabilities as a presidential candidate?
I didn t feel that Earl Warren had the experience, the breadth, the
demonstrated ability for that. But I m probably too close with him
to have any other opinion than that. I think a lot of times when you
get very close with some people, you see their faults and you re not
as idealistic; they do have feet of clay. In just the same way, the
closer you get to the governor s office, the less aura it has really.
I know my father, who was acting lieutenant governor of California
at one time, was one heartbeat away from the governor s office. I
know he told me that it had less attraction to him as he came so close
to it.
He saw the stresses and strains as well as the glamour?
Yes, yes; that s right. The glamour is not as important as you thought
it was. I ve had all the honors I want as far as my life is concerned.
You couldn t hand me the governorship really.
Nowadays, it seems a thankless job.
going to be unhappy.
Whatever you do, somebody is
Breed: That s true, always. I wonder why a person wants to be President
really.
Morris: On the matter of the state s interest in the citizens health, at
the same time that the legislature was very strongly against passing
health insurance legislation, the Department of Public Health seems
to have had great support for expansion of its programs and great
generosity in legislative budgets, particularly for local health
departments.
Breed: This was their strong forte. I think they were doing a good job at
the local level, helping out the various cities and counties with
their health programs and helping districts get established for
mosquito control and things of this kind.
I don t think there s an interrelationship here; you re talking
about two different things. I think they were recognized for their
ability for what they were doing, in their traditional, regular work,
which had nothing to do as far as whether we should have health
insurance or not.
47
Morris: I was thinking of the Department of Public Health s encouragement of
local health departments.* Starting about 1946, they were going more
strongly into immunization and preventive individual medical care
well-baby clinics and school nurses and all this kind of thing, which
is the health condition of individual citizens. It was interesting
that the legislature apparently never turned down Public Health budget
requests for eight or ten years in there.
Breed: I say, I think they were performing, doing a good job, in helping the
local communities with their programs.
Federal Funds
Morris: This also involved a lot of federal funds under the Social Security
Act. How did you feel about federal funds in general coming into the
state?
Breed: Part of this comes into the picture in this way: As I mentioned
earlier, California was having a great influx. In fact, interestingly
enough you re an historian never has there been such a voluntary
mass migration in the history of the world as was taking place in
California during this period. There s quite a significant remark,
I think a great voluntary mass migration to the west; the thing that
stopped it was the Pacific Ocean, or they d have kept going.
And so they came out here, and some of us felt, "Look, here these
people are giving us some health problems. They re not really Califor-
nians; these are people who came in from the outside." They came,
certainly during the war years, to work as welders and shipbuilders,
and what have you, and airplane builders and so on and so forth, out
here.
Then, of course, a lot of people that were in the service came
through California, saw how lovely it was and so on, and decided to
stay; they had already pulled up stakes and severed their ties back
east. If they went home and got into a blizzard back there or some
nasty weather, they said, "Gee, let s go out to California," looking
for jobs and so on. This was all part of the picture.
*See interview with Dr. Malcolm Merrill, director of the State Department
of Public Health in the 1940s.
48
Breed: Part of the feeling, as far as federal aid on things like health,
and federal aid on highways and federal aid on various programs of
one kind categorical aids there was a feeling that we were kind of
entitled to it because of the in-migration.
Morris: From all those other states, yes.
Breed: Yes. Remember, there was another physical condition the Dust Bowl.
From Oklahoma and the panhandle of Texas, these people (during the
Depression) had the little subsistence farms they worked blown away.
Gosh, they didn t have the resources; they were just uprooted by nature.
So they came west. They thought life would be better in California.
So it was the Dust Bowl; that s where they came from.
Morris: So the migration actually was in two stages. There was the earlier
one, when the farms failed in other parts of the country
Breed: The Dust Bowl and Depression. That s right; that was earlier, prior
to the war. But that s when the migration started. Grapes of Wrath.
Morris: That was a very shattering book.
Do you recall what were the factors in the decision to add a
state share to the federal funds for hospital construction?
Breed: Here again, there was a recognized need that we were short of beds
in California because we went through the period o.f the Depression,
then the war, where we could not build. Here we had an increase in
population, and the population was growing to such an extent that it
was just a demonstrated need.
There were the Hill-Burton funds, and then the state participated
in its study and had some very competent people who made studies for
this, and then the state s assistance for the construction of the
hospitals. The intent was I don t say it worked out this way, but
this was the thinking in the legislature in providing these funds
that in order to prevent over-building, you would have to go through
a state commission.* They would say to you, if you had an application
for building a new wing onto your hospital, "No, you can t do that;
we won t allocate these funds to you."
*Hospital construction funds were allocated through the Advisory Council
on Hospital Facilities of the Department of Public Health, rather than
the Allocation Board of the Department of Finance. See also interview
in this series with P.B. Hume, MD.
49
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed :
I see. And if there was a state share of money, then a state board
had a say in it. So this was part of those surplus funds earmarked
for state postwar construction?
That s right. But a lot of people with the hospitals went ahead and
built them anyway. All right. But, I mean, this was the theory;
this is part of the sales pitch they gave us and why we bought it.
The next item on my list was also an uproar in the legislature; that
was the 1949 Water Pollution Bill. I gather that Randal Dickey [a
fellow Alameda County legislator] tried to stop action on the budget
because he didn t like the bill. That puzzled me because it sounded
as if it was a technical kind of legislation which was requested by
the Department of Public Health people in improving their water quality
program.
I cannot explain the motivation of Mr. Randal Dickey,
whom I did not have confidence.
He was one in
Morris: What were your reservations about Mr. Dickey? Other interviewees
have suggested that he was a spokesman for oil companies, canners and
others who opposed regulation of discharges into rivers and streams.
Would you say this is a fair opinion?
Breed: I have no proof, only suspicions.
University of California; Loyalty Oath, Higher Education Planning
Morris: While we re back in Alameda County, the one issue that rises above
all others, I think, for a number of years was the controversy between
the legislature and the University on the loyalty oath. Why did that
become so bitter?
Breed: Jack Tenney, who headed the Unamerican Activities Committee, made
the accusation that there were communists on the faculty. He was
going to make an investigation and all this sort of thing. He was
following Joe McCarthy and that sort of thing, who he was riding high
at that time.
Breed: Jim Corley talked to Senator Tenney and finally got him to agree that
if the University would have a loyalty oath Tenney would lay off the
University, let the University handle its own affairs. Corley assured
him; he said, "I can assure you, from President Sproul, that what you re
saying just isn t true, that if we have any communists here if there s
any evidence, we ll get rid of them. We don t want communists in the
faculty any more than you do.
50
Breed: "We have standards and principles that we believe in, and there is an
academic freedom of expression of ideas that we cannot curb . And we
must not do harm to that. We re afraid that if you come in here that
you ll just get things all stirred up and cause great trouble, and we
think that we can handle it ourselves. Let us do it."
Tenney said, "Will you have a loyalty oath?" Corley and Sproul
agreed that they would have this loyalty oath, if then Tenney would
stay away and not come in and just raise hell around there. And that s
how it started.
Of course, it was getting on the edge of the broader question of
academic freedom and whether it was accomplishing anything. It just
offended a lot of people s principles that they felt were very, very
important very important to them at least. So the fat was in the fire,
and it just sizzled and bounced over everywhere.
Morris: Yes, it did. It seemed to involve many more feelings and ideas than
just a loyalty oath.
Breed: Oh, yes, it did. Oh, yes. So there s the background of how it came
into being.
Morris: Were there feelings that the University was not being managed the
way some people in the legislature wanted it anyway?
Breed: No, no. Remember, we d gone through a war; this subject, at that time,
of lack of loyalty and the war feeling and people s emotions were just
stirred up to beat the band, you know. People were tense, and when it
came to lack of loyalty, there was just an awful lot of strong feeling.
Just to show you, during the first part of the war, we took people
of Japanese ancestry and moved them into a concentration camp up in
Modoc County. They were California citizens; they were American citizens.
Just because their ancestors had come from Japan. Of course, we did it
on the basis that it was for their own protection poppycock!
It s horrible as we look at it today. I supported it, because I
believed in it at the time. But here s what I m saying: the stress of
the times. When you look at history, you see people do things under
the stress of the times, at the moment, that they wouldn t do at a
later time or under more sober conditions. We re all subject to this.
Morris: Did the loyalty oath controversy have any lasting effects on the
University and its relation with the legislature?
Breed: It couldn t help but have some effects. I don t know whether it had
any more effect on the legislature than it did on the citizenry generally
and the press. It was a very disturbing situation. I knew why it came
about and all that. Of course, as far as taking a loyalty oath, I ll
take it every morning gladly.
51
Morris: With your orange juice.
Breed: Yes, surely; it doesn t bother me in the least. I m not sure it s
very effective. Frankly, it was an expedient at the moment.
Morris: It got out of hand.
Breed: How can you tell how far it s going to go? It s a terrific academic
debate. Here again, I can see both sides of it, really.
Morris: Did it have any effect on the decision to expand the state colleges
or to develop a state college master plan?
Breed: No, no, no, no, no. That s much deeper, entirely different. I d say
there s no relation. There was a feeling between the state colleges
and the University a natural jealousy. The legislators from state
college districts were close to their state college; they knew their
people and they had a loyalty to the state colleges, in the same way
I had a loyalty to the University of California.
There used to be a feeling of animosity. I know Senator Jesperson
down in Atascadero there he had the San Luis Obispo operation down
there; he was critical of the University.* Well, it was purely a
sectional kind of a feeling.
Morris: Professional rivalry?
Breed: Yes. Now, when the state was growing, a lot of us felt that we could
see that there was a need for expansion of state colleges. There were
constantly bills to build them up in different places, one down in
Stanislaus, which we now have, and so forth.
I wrote a letter to Bob Sproul saying that there should be a
study here, headed by the University, with the participation of the
University, the state colleges and the junior colleges, because I
felt "you academic fellows could talk the same language and decide
what kind of a program was a good, sound educational one; that you
fellows could get together much better than the politicians could,"
and that I thought this study should be made.
Sproul wrote right back I have the correspondence right here, I
think and he said yes, he would do it, he agreed one hundred percent.
He took the initiative; with the superintendent of public instruction,
the two of them named the original study commission for higher education.
Out of it came those recommendations.
California State Polytechnic College in San Luis Obispo
52
Breed: It was agreed the University would be the terminal facility, with
research and graduate programs and the state colleges would have their
place, and the junior colleges would be a part of the extension of the
high school down here on the local level. For some people two years
were terminal; as far as they re concerned the junior college should
be more oriented to vocational training. For some, it would be wrong
to train him to be an engineer when what we really need to do is train
some persons that would be between the working person and the engineer
and can talk the engineer s language. There was a very great area in
here where there was need.
There was need also, as far as our citizens were concerned for a
junior college right within their own community. The state had grown
to such a point that a lot of times it was expensive for them to go
away to a University when really they could get the first two years
at home and find themselves. Then if they wanted to go on, they could
get their next two years at a state college, get their degree, and then
go to the University for graduate work.
53
SUMMING UP
Political Life in Alameda County
Morris: I have a couple more questions to sum things up. We talked on the
phone, before we got to the tape recorder, about Alameda County having
produced a very impressive crop of legislators. What factors do you
think made Alameda County as important as it has been in the legislature
and the political scene?
Breed: I think the first thing we have to look at is the composition of Alameda
County. It has been a residential community; it s been a very wholesome
community. It s not had the problems of a big city like San Francisco,
with its big seaport and all of the different elements of different
people coming into the big city. It s been more differently oriented.
I think the University here has an influence on the character of
the community, and such places as Mills College, which also has an
influence, being an educational community where people want to be.
We ve had some industry, but not the big concentration of business,
big business that might control things. We ve had a number of individual
communities, cities here not one big city but many cities that would
tend to develop citizens at the local level. Then they would be a great
crop available for public service. I think those elements did contribute
to developing individuals in public service.
Morris: Is there a strong political organization for both parties?
Breed: There was, of course, as I mentioned in our earlier discussion, there
were two basic political factors in Alameda County the Mike Kelly
group and the Knowland group. The Mike Kelly group grew up from the
days of patronage, when your political fortunes would be enhanced by
your successes, and that meant that you d have jobs to give out and
that builds a political machine.
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
As I indicated earlier, Mike Kelly was a thoroughly honest, honorable
man, although he was maligned because he had the title of being a
so-called political boss. I don t think he was a political boss; he
was a citizen who was just interested in the game of politics. He
believed in it. He never benefited individually that I could ever
determine from his influence in this at all.
The Knowlands with the paper had, of course, considerable influence
in the community. Then, of course, we had the Post-Inquirer here which
was an element that was kind of in-between; I think they had more of
a leaning towards the Mike Kelly group, just because they were opposite
the Tribune. But no great battles particularly.
Joseph Knowland started in some other field and then bought the paper,
is that right?
Yes. That s right. He got it from Dargie.
What had Mr. Knowland been doing before he went into publishing?
He served in the state assembly, the state senate, and United States
Congress.
I see. So he was a politically active citizen first and then bought
a newspaper because it s good for a politician to have a newspaper.
Or is that over-simplifying it?
[Laughter.] I think that s over-simplifying it. I don t know; you
can look up in the Blue Books his early history there, what business
he was in I was just trying to think what business he was in. They
lived in Alameda and his father before him was in Alameda.
How powerful were organizations like the Chamber of Commerce?
mentioned the JC s, and I was thinking also of lodges.
You
They all have a place in a community; it s hard to say how important
they are. A lot of times a close election might swing one way or the
other based on some elements of support.
You see, in this community, we have a wide variety of types of
influences. The city of Alameda has always had its own brand of
politics; the city of Berkeley has had its brand of politics. The
city of Piedmont is something quite different again nothing organized
particularly up there as such.
Berkeley has been a university town I m not talking about the
latest affairs in the last ten years, but I mean oefore that the
University had considerable influence out there in Berkeley in the
early days.
55
Breed: San Leandro had its group out there with a great many people of the
Portuguese race. East Oakland had its elements there which were quite
different from other parts of Oakland.
So it was a conglomeration of different elements and different
parts. Then, of course, down county, there was another element in
the Livermore and Centerville area that had an entirely different
flavor all their own. It s a conglomerate of individual citizens
oriented to local interests, as distinguished from a big city which
was some organization which was quite overwhelming with a lot of little
segments. There was not any one great big organization that dominated
the picture at all.
Morris: Am I right in hearing you say that, over the years, there s a higher
level of interest among citizens more citizens interested in public
affairs than in some other communities?
Breed: I think so. There s more of an opportunity for them to participate
in local affairs. And I think it comes to your first question as to
why it is that Alameda County was able to develop z number of governors
and a number of distinguished public servants thr.t went on to higher
things, because they had their training at the local level, in these
smaller communities.
Earl Warren s Early Career
Morris: One specific one, in terms of Warren, is the Masons. Some writers
have said the Masons were quite important in getting Warren his first
statewide recognition, and that they were a strong influence in Warren s
early political career. The Blue Book says you re a Mason yourself;
would you say this is true?
Breed: No, I wouldn t say it was particularly true. I don t know what period
of time you re talking about. The history of Earl Warren is rather
interesting, if you want to know it.
Earl Warren, still in uniform, was hired as a clerk of the
Assembly Judiciary Committee right after World War I. One of its
members was an assemblyman by the name of Leon Gray. Ezra W. Decoto
was district attorney of the Alameda County; he came up to Sacramento.
There was an evening meeting of the Assembly Judiciary Committee.
Leon Gray and I think it was Eddie Smith, an assemblyman there were
two or three Alameda County assemblymen on the judiciary committee,
and they were sitting around waiting for a quorum. Ezra W. Decoto
came in; he had a bill before the committee.
56
Breed: They re great jokers and kidders, and they said, "Ezra, now you have
a bill before this committee; if we pass it tonight, will you give us
a job the next time you have an opening in your DA s office?" He said,
"I don t know; what do you have in mind?" "Our clerk here, Earl Warren;
he s just out of the army and needs a job. When the legislature is
over, you ought to give him a job."
He said, "Well." They went on and said whan a nice young fellow
he was. He said, "He looks like a nice young fellow; yes, that s all
right. I m always looking for good people." And so they went on.
In the meantime, Leon Gray became city attorney of the city of
Oakland. Ezra W. Decoto called on him one day and said, "I m here to
perform on that promise I made to you." Leon said, "Promise? What
promise are you talking about?" "Oh," he said, "to appoint Earl Warren
deputy." Leon said, "What are you talking about? We were just kidding.
We were passing time; that was no promise. Nobody was serious about
holding you to that. We were just gassing, that c all. No, no, no,
no, no. We would not do that. That had nothing to do with your bill
and your legislation. Don t you understand? We were just kidding,
just having fun with you, that s all."
He said, "Well, I looked up that fellow; I ve made an investigation
of him and I understand he s here working for you." Leon said, "Yes,
he is." And Decoto said, "Well, I would like to give him a job." Leon
said, "I just want you to understand one thing: you re under no obliga
tion to give it to him because of what happened up in Sacramento; I
don t want it on that basis." Decoto said, "No, no, no, it s not on
that basis; I d like to hire him."
Leon said, "Just a minute." He called his secretary and said,
"Is Earl Warren in the library?" They said he was. "All right.
Come on. Let s talk to him." They went into the library, and he
said, "You remember Ezra Decoto, the district attorney? He s here
ready to offer you a job," and so on. And that s how Earl Warren got
it.
I heard this story from Leon Gray, he was later superior court
judge when I asked him about this story, and I talked with Ezra Decoto
afterwards and I recited this, and I said, "Is uhis true?" Both of
them confirmed this story.
So then, to continue the story, Earl later became chief deputy
district attorney. Decoto, who was still district attorney of Alameda
County, knew that he was going to be appointed to the Railroad Commission,
He said to Earl Warren, "Look you go and line up the votes for yourself
in the board of supervisors," because the supervisors would have the
naming in the event of a vacancy. "I will be resigning, but don t, you
say anything to anybody because Governor Richardson will be wanting
57
Breed: to make the announcement about my appointment. But you should be
ready and have the votes all lined up on a when-as-if basis, that if
there s a vacancy they would vote for you. You d better tend to it
right away because this will come along in the next thirty days, I
expect." Later, he said, "Have you lined it up :" Warren said, "Yes,
yes I have."
It so happened that he had not lined up the votes positively.
He d spoken to the supervisors but he didn t have a definite commitment.
John Mullin was a supervisor. Mike Kelly had a couple of supervisors
on there. There was a Knowland man on here, and Jchn Mullin was the
swing fellow and voted for Earl Warren for district attorney.
Earl Warren never forgot it. When he was running for vice president,
he had Mullin ride with him on his train. Whenever he came out here, he
would always come talk to Mullin because he remembered his loyalty; he
was the fellow who put him on the track and made him district attorney.
Once Earl was district attorney, he made the reputation himself for
what he did.
He did have the support of the Tribune. He never had the opposition
of Mike Kelly at any time. Any of the candidates who ran against Earl
Warren were never put up by Mike Kelly because Earl Warren stood for the
things that Mike Kelly did honesty and decency in government.
That s the key story as to what happened, and as I say, I ve
confirmed it with the two principals of that sccry myself. I heard
it from both of them. That s the story of Mr. Eail Warren in that
regard.
As far as the Masons, yes; Earl was active in the Masons. He
was master of Sequoia Lodge and then later was Grand Master of Masons
of California. He did have a lot of support from the Masons, yes.
But I think Earl had a lot of support from people who might be classi
fied as anti-Mason by somebody else, if there is such a thing other
elements.
Morris: Would the Masons have selected Warren as a likely candidate and made a
plan to build up support for him?
Breed: Oh, they never do. I can tell you this. I m very active in the Masons.
Anyway, I can tell you this they do not any lodge or any Masonic
body ever take the position as a body for or against any candidate.
We do believe that every Mason should be a good citizen and participate
according to their own individual conscience, as they see fit, but
certainly nobody will tell, in any lodge, somebody what they should
or should not do. That d be wrong.
Morris: That s a good point to have clarified.
Breed: I know whereof I speak.
58
Leaving the Legislature
Morris:
Breed:
Morris:
Breed:
At the other end of your elective career, why did you decide to leave
the legislature yourself?
After twenty-four years, it gets to be pretty much of a routine. I
had all the honors. But, primarily, I found the work was just building
up. I had the seniority, and a great many people and state departments
because I had a reputation that they liked asked me to handle legislation
for them. Having the seniority, I had all the committees I wanted and
was on all the important committees. I was working perhaps two or three
times as hard as many of ray colleagues.
I represented an important county and the work just built up. I
found I was working full time at being a legislator and I didn t want
to. I took it conscientiously and would be there to work at it, and
it was becoming bothersome; I couldn t get away from it. People would
phone me at home .
The last time I ran, I said to my wife, "I ve run my last; I ve
made up my mind." I almost didn t run the last time. I said, "I ve
run my last. I m not ready to announce it for several years, but I
tell you I m not going to run again any more." That was 1953. I
didn t; I made up my mind that was it.
Here s the way it would work out. You d be sitting on a committee
it doesn t make any difference what the committee is and here problems
come up. You had all the background; you d heard the whole story time
and time again. You d feel, "Let s get on with this thing. I know
what I want to do. Come on, let s vote."
Well, a new man on the committee would start asking questions.
Well, he s entitled to get the answers to those questions; he didn t
know the answers. I used to ask those questions when I was new, to
the annoyance of the old timers, you see.
I d be sitting there knowing the answer
And knowing where you wanted to go.
Knowing where I wanted to go, know exactly what the background was
and so on I could have given a talk on that measure and the background
and the history. I d be thinking, "Oh, I ought to be in the office; I
ought to be doing this; I ought to be doing that. I want to call this
department, and I have this correspondence, and I want to go over to
the assembly" just a myriad of things would Just start spinning in
my head, and I d get frustrated here because I had all these things to
do. I had to listen to somebody take up all this time that I felt was
a waste of time. I didn t feel like getting up and walking out because
I didn t know how long he would be asking questions.
59
Breed: Finally, after a while, it gets to be an old story. Then I found,
with my two children coming along, I was beginning to grow away from
them. They were asking my wife questions about things I thought they
ought to be asking me. My wife stayed home and raised the kids and I
was up in Sacramento and it was a world apart; when I was up there,
that was my world.
It was wearing me out actually, actually. I had friends who d
come up there and say, "Gee, you re knocking yourself out. If you
don t look out, you ll turn up here missing one of these days." And
I did have friends say to me, "Relax; take it easy." So I decided it
was making an old man of me ahead of my time. I m sure I m much
easier to get along with since I ve left. [Laughter.]
Morris: Looking back over those years in the legislature, what do you feel
were the greatest changes in the legislature and your greatest feelings
of accomplishment?
Breed: That s a multi-sided question. The first part the greatest changes.
There are two things, I think. One is, I felt that in the main and
I would be the first to recognize the exceptions but in the main, I
think that the determining element was the principle of the matter
involved, regardless of partisan politics. Partisan politics did not
play but a very, very small part in the affairs of state matters when
I went there. Now, of course, they ve changed and gotten more and
more partisan.
And the second there is a great growth of what I would call
selfish interest, individual interest. That can cover the whole
ramification there. Lobbyists I might be misunderstood in this and
I don t want to be are there to supply information and to be used,
and I mean used in the sense of being helpful and not in an adverse
way. But lobbyists should not be able to use the legislator.
Morris: And you feel that this has increased?
Breed: This has increased very much. I think that we re almost being run now
by a lot of individual, selfish groups.
Morris: And you d broaden this out to include not only industry lobbyists but
Breed: Labor, organized teachers all kinds. Let s be fair all kinds many
many, many groups. It s terribly broad. What I m pleading for is
more objectivity, when you have people that are not subject to the
influence of being there by party. I feel we had more men that were
able to serve because they were independent, as against holding to
some groups .
The state has gotten so large now that it takes a lot of money
to run for public office. I think that a lot of people who make
contributions are having influence that they shouldn t have on
60
Breed: legislators. I think I mentioned earlier, whenever I had any political
contributions, if it wasn t on the basis that they supported me because
I was what they thought the best man, then I didn t want to have any
thing to do with their contributions. But, I was independent no
strings attached. I m afraid there are too many strings being attached
by virtue of the costs necessary in running political campaigns these
days. This is one of the weaknesses in our system. I love our system
in spite of all of this, but I want to get the sights up higher, on
principle, because I think the public interest is served much better
that way.
Morris: It certainly would seem to be, yes.
Breed: You ought to be more judicial and hear all sides. That s all right;
everybody s entitled to be heard. I m all for that. But I want the
judges to be independent; legislators are judge, jury and executioner
all rolled into one very often.
Morris: Yes; it s quite a responsibility. It must be very challenging.
Breed: It is. It s challenging because one minute you re sitting on this
side of the desk, as judge and jury; then you have a bill before a
committee, and where are you? You re on the other side and the guys
that were there before are sitting in judgment on you! It s a great
leveler, believe me. You don t dare stick your finger in that person s
eye because you may go over and then that person is sitting in judgment
on you, and you know what would happen. [Laughter.] A good way to
end it.
Morris: I ve enjoyed this, and I hope I ve left you time to have a sandwich,
before your meeting this afternoon.
[End of Interview]
Transcriber: Lee Steinback
Final Typist: Teresa Allen
INDEX - Arthur H. Breed Jr. 61
c
Adams, Adson F. , 15
air pollution, 28
Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District, 25-26
Alameda County, 6-7, 14, 36-37, 43-44, 49, 53-56
water problems, 15-16
Alameda County Republican Central Committee, 2, 13
Albright, Horace M. , 21
Allen, Johnnie, 9
Assembly, Calif., 12-15, 31, 34
Judiciary Committee, 55
Bar tell, Harry, 36
Bay Area Rapid Transit District (BART) , 27-28
Blue Cross, 43-44
Breed, Arthur H., Jr., 1-60
Breed, Arthur H., Sr., 1-5, 7, 9, 12, 14, 18, 20-21, 33, 46
Breed, Carolyn Hall, 1-2
Breed family, 58-59
budget, California state, 29-31, 34-35, 41-42
World War II surplus, 32-33, 36-38, 49
California Republican Assembly (CRA) , 6
California State Automobile Association, 14, 28
California Water Plan, 16
Cavalier, William and Company, 5
Cavanaugh, Bartley, 38
Collier, Randolph, 18
Corley, James, 32-33, 49-50
County Supervisors Association, Calif., 20
Crosby, Daniel, 43
cross-filing, 13
Dargie, 54
Decoto, Ezra W. , 55-56
Dickey, Randal, 49
Earl, Guy C., 2-3
education, 19
Master Plan, 51-52
election campaigns:
1934 Assembly primary, 8
1938 senate primary, 13
finance, 22-23, 59-60
Farmers and Merchants Savings Bank, 15
federal government, 38, 40
funding, 18, 47-48
62
Finance, Calif. Dept. of, 17, 30, 34, 41-42. See also budget
Flynn, Frank, 22
gasoline tax, 18-23, 27-28
governor, of California, 30-31
Graves, Richard, 36, 39
Gray, Leon, 55-56
Hatfield, George J. , 18
Hayden-Cartwright Act, 18
health insurance, 43-46
Highway Commission, Ca. , 23-24
highways, 17-28
funding, 23
legislation, 17-28
Hoovenan, Harold, 43
hospital construction, 48
Inman, J.M. , 5
Japanese American relocation, 50
Jesperson, Chris M. , 51
Joint Legislative Budget Committee, 34-35
Junior Chamber of Commerce, Oakland, 6-10, 54
Kelly, Mike, 6-8, 13-14, 53-54, 57
Kenny, Robert, 34
Key System, 24-26
Klaeser, Florence, 43
Knowland, Joseph R. , 8, 10, 14-15, 53-54
Knowland, Russell, 7, 9, 53-54
Knowland, William, 6-7, 9, 13-15, 53-54
labor unions, 25, 38-39
Laney College, 10
League of California Cities, 18, 20
Lee, Russel, 45
legislative analyst, 33-35, 42
lobbying, 21
Long Beach, Ca. , 41
Masonic Order, 55, 57
mass transit, 24-28
Master Plan for Higher Education, 51-52
63
Mayo, Jesse M. , 19, 23
McCormlck, Professor, 4
Miller, George Jr., 16
Mills College, 53
Mitchell, W.E., 43
Monday Night Club, 5
Moore, Gertrude, 43
Mullin, John, 57
natural resources :
development of, 40
Nichols, Luther, 32
Oakland, Ca. , 1, 6, 14-15, 41
exposition building, 9-11
port of, 41
Oakland Bay Bridge, 26-28
Oakland Housing Authority, 38
Oakland Post-Inquirer. 10, 54
Oakland Title Insurance and Guaranty Co. , 14
Oakland Tribune. 10, 13-14, 54
oil, tidelands, 39-41
oil companies, 20-21
Olson, Culbert, 34-35, 44-45
Pardee, George C. , 2
patronage, 53
population, Calif., 19, 48
Post, A. Alan, 33-35, 42
Public Health, Calif. Dept. of, 46-49
public housing, 38
Public Utilities Commission, Calif., 21
Public Works, Calif. Dept. of, 18, 22-23
Railroad Commission, Calif. State, 56
Read, Ingram, 10
reapportionment , 1930, 14
redevelopment, 38-39
Re-employment and Reconstruction Commission, 36
Republican party, 13, 53
Alameda County, 2, 13
revenue bonds, 39
revenue sharing, 37-38
Richardson, Friend W. (Governor), 20, 56-57
Rishell, Cliff, 37
Rockefeller, John D. Jr., 21
64
Roland, Eugene W. , 8-9
Rolph, James J. (Governor), 35
Salsman, Byrl, 45
Samish, Arthur, 22
San Francisco, port of, 32
Senate, Calif., 2, 17, 44-45
Finance Committee, 5, 29-42
Highway Committee, 118
mass transit legislation, 25-28
water, 15
Senate Judiciary Committee, U.S., 40
shipping industry, 26
Slack, Ellard L. , 43
Smith, Eddie, 55
South Bay Aqueduct, 15-17
Southern California, 13, 16
Southern Pacific Railroad, 26
special interest groups, 20-23, 59-60
Sproul, Robert Gordon, 4, 49-51
Standard Oil, 21
State Allocation Board, 33
State Lands Commission, 41
state-local government relations, 18-19, 36-38, 46
states rights, 40
Stevens, Charles, 21
Sutter Club, 5, 36
Tenney, Jack, 49-50
Thompson, Jack, 16
Tickle, Edward, 43
transportation, mass, 24-28
Unamerican Activities Committee, Calif. Senate, 49
University of California, 3-4, 28, 32-33, 51-54
loyalty oath, 49-52
Order of Golden Bear, 3
regents, 2
Vandegrift, Rolland, 35
Warren, Earl, 19-20, 22, 35, 37, 44-46, 55-57
as attorney general, 40
as district attorney, 6-7
water studies, 15-16
65
water quality, 49
Wheeler, Benjamin Ide, 3
Wood, George U. , 43
Young Republicans, 6-7, 13
youth, and politics, 6
Gabrielle Morris
B.A. in economics, Connecticut College, New
London; independent study in journalism,
creative writing.
Historian, U.S. Air Force in England, covering
Berlin Air Lift, military agreements, personnel
studies, 1951-52.
Chief of radio, TV, public relations, major
New England department store; copy chief, net
work radio and TV station in Hartford, Connec
ticut ; freelance theatrical publicity and
historical articles, 1953-55-
Research, interviewing, editing, community
planning in child guidance, mental health,
school planning, civic unrest, for University
of California, Berkeley Unified School District,
Bay Area Social Planning Council, League of
Women Voters, 1956-70.
Research, interviewing, editing on state
administration, civic affairs, and industry,
Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft
Library, University of California at Berkeley,
1970-present.
7 ;j
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