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Full text of "Communism in the Detroit area. Hearings"

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'COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA - PART 1 

"' ,, I I I HI ■■11,^ "■  » «^ 

HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



FEBRUARY 25, 26, 27, 28, AND 29, 1952 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 




PUBLIC I 

X>- <^'' 

UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
«7097 WASHINGTON : 1952 






COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 

FRANCIS E. WALTER. Pennsylvania HAROLD H. VELDB, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER. Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New Yorlc 

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

JAMES B. FRAZIBR, Jr., Tennessee CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan 

Frank S. Tavexxer. Jr., Counsel 

LODis J. Russell, Senior lm-esti(jator 

John W. Carringtox, Clerk of Committee 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

II 



CONTENTS 



February 25, 1952: P*f« 

Testimony of Richard Franklin O'Hair ^7 Id- 

February 26, 1952: 

Testimony of— 

Joseph Bernstein 275/ 

David Miller 2764 

John Cherveny 2770 

Walter Scott Dunn 2778 

Rafael Haskell 2798 

Hugo Beiswenger 2803 

Edward N. Turner 2811 

February 27, 1952: 

Testimony of —  

Rev. "Charles A. Hill 2819 

Wavne Salisbury 2833 

Fred Williams 2851 

Elinor Maki 2855 

Paul A. Henley 2860 

Charles LeBron Simmons 2865 

Arthur McPhaul 2870 

February 28, 1952: 

Statement of George W. Crockett, counsel for Stanley Nowak 2877 

Testimony of — 

Coleman A. Young 2878 

William R. Hood 2893 

Robert Cummins 2900 

William A. Record 2907 

Lorraine Meisner 2910 

Patrick F. Rice 2914 

Ann Beiswenger 2922 

February 29, 1952: 

Statement of George W. Crockett, Jr., counsel for Stanley Nowak. _ 2925 

Testimony of Bereniece Baldwin 2926' 

in 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETEOIT AKEA— PAET 1 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1952 

United States House or Representati\^8, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Detroit . Mich. 

PUBLIC hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to call at 1 : 30 p. m. in room 740, Federal Building, in De- 
troit, Mich., the Honorable John S. Wood (chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood, 
Morgan M. Moulder, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell and Jackson Jones, 
investigators ; and John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. 

Mr. Reporter, please let the record show that acting under authority 
of the resolution establishing the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities of the Seventy-ninth Congi'ess of the United States, I have 
set up a subcommittee for the purpose of conducting the hearings in 
the Detroit area composed of the following members : Messrs. Moulder, 
Jackson, Potter, and Wood, who are all present. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities of the House of Repre- 
sentatives from time to time has investigated un-American activities 
of fascism, nazism and other totalitarian "isms" designed to over- 
throw by force and violence the constitutional form of Government 
under which we live. It will be remembered that while this committee 
was engaged in the investigation of Nazi activities during the period 
of the Stalin-Hitler pact, the Communist Party was publicly support- 
ing Hitler. 

This committee has devoted much of its time in the past few years 
to the subject of communism because communism is the only move- 
ment presently directed from abroad. The Communist conspiracy in 
many forms, including that of espionage by foreign agents, has been 
brought to light in investigations conducted by this committee. Com- 
munist infiltration into the etitertainment, educational, governmental, 
labor, and other fields of endeavor has been exposed by this committee 
in its effort to carry out the duties imposed upon it by the Congress. 

Investigation in the city of Baltimore, the State of Massachusetts, 
and other places has disclosed a concentration of Communist effort in 
certain defense areas of the country. It will be remembered that dur- 

2711 



2712 COMlVrUNISAI IX the DETROIT AREA 

ing the Massachusetts hearing, Herbert A. Philbrick detailed the 
method by which the Communist Party of Massachusetts used its 
members employed in industry to keep the national organization of 
the Communist Party and the international Communist movement 
fully advised of industrial potentialities in that area. There is no area 
of greater importance to the Nation as a whole, both in time of peace 
and in time of war, than the general area of Detroit which won the 
title, "The Arsenal of Democracy." The purpose of this investigation 
is to determine first, whether there has been Communist activity in this 
vital defense area, and if so, the nature, extent, character, and objects 
thereof. 

Anticipating from our experience in other important investiga- 
tions the smear campaign which will be directed against this com- 
mittee by the Communists' slander apparatus, I wish to clear up 
certain possible misconceptions at the outset. 

It will be alleged by the Communists and their apologists that this 
committee is motivated by a desire to injure the labor movement^ 
Nothing could be further from the truth as will be demonstrated 
by an impartial review of the investigations conducted by this commit- 
tee over the past few years. The committee has succeeded to a marked 
degree in exposing Communist infiltration into certain labor unions, 
with the result in many instances that the unions involved rid them- 
selves of Communist domination and influence. In other instances, 
local unions have endorsed and supported the committee's work. The 
committee is not interested in internal disputes within labor or in 
disputes between management and labor. It has a legislative duty 
to investigate and expose Communist activities and that is its purpose 
in appearing here. 

You will also be told by the Commimists and their fellow travelers 
that this committee is motivated by a desire to raise racial issues. This 
typical propaganda effort on the part of the Communists has been 
worn threadbare. They Avould have you forget that it was this 
committee which gave Jackie Robinson the opportunit}' to refute the 
statement made by Paul Robeson and to say to loyal Americans every- 
where : 

I and other Amerifans of many races and faiths have too ninch invested in 
our country's welfare, for any of us to throw it away because of a siren song 
sung in bass. I am a religious man. Therefore, I cherish America where I am 
free to worship as I please, a privilege which some countries rlo not give. And 
I suspect that 999 out of almost any thousand colored Americans you meet will 
tell you the same thing. 

The committee deplores exploitation of racial groups by the Com- 
mimist Party. This committee believes in the basic integrity, charac- 
ter and loyalty of all Americans, regardless of race and creed and 
-predicts there will be no questions as to the ultimate decision by 
Americans when informed of the true »facts relating to the alleged 
Communist conspiracy in their midst. 

I would like also at this time, before beginning the hearings, to 
make this announcement to the public: 

We are here at the direction of the Congress of the United States 
trying to discharge a duty and obligation that has been placed upon 
us by the Congress. Nobody who is present or who will be present 
in this room during the hearings, except the witnesses who are sub- 
penaed, are required to be here. You are here by the permission of 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2713 

the committee and not by any compulsion of the committee. This 
committee will not countenance any attempt or effort on the part of 
anybody to make any demonstration, either favorable or unfavorable, 
toward" the committee's undertaking or to what any person called as 
a witness may have to say. 

I do not mean to say this in any spirit of threat, but if such conduct 
should occur, I am going to promptly ask the officers to eject those 
who start or attempt to start any demonstration in the room, and if 
necessary, clear the entire room. 

Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

]VIr. Wood. You may proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. The first witness is Mr. Richard Franklin O'Hair. 

Mr. Wood. It has been brought to my attention, gentlemen, that 
there are some motion-picture cameras in the audience. I regret very 
much, under the rules of the House, it cannot be permitted and, there- 
fore, if there are any such cameras they will please be removed from 
the hearing room. 

Are you Mr. O'Hair? 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD FRANKLIN O'HAIR 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will you please stand and be sworn ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I would like to announce at the beginning of the hear- 
ing, it is the uniform policy of this committee when witnesses are 
subpenaed before the committee, that they are entitled to counsel of 
their own choice and are at liberty to confer with such counsel at any 
time they may see fit during the progress of their testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, will vou state your full name, please ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Richard Franklin O'Hair. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. O'Hair? 

Mr. O'Hair. Chicago, 111., June 23, 1913. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Johnson City, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Until, I believe. May 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your edu- 
cational background has been? 

Mr. O'Hair. Grammar school, high school, vocational school, busi- 
ness college, and one term at the Chicago Academy of Fine Arts. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to state also what your em- 
ployment record has been, and I believe it would be satisfactory if 
you would begin with the time when you came to Detroit in 1942. 



2714 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. O'Hair. In 1942 I secured employment witli Federal Mogul as 
a millwright helper. Then later on when they set up a plant pro- 
tection force at Federal Mogul, marine division, which is a subsidiary 
of Federal Mogul, Bill Putnam, who was chief of plant protection 
for Federal Mogul Corp., asked me how I would like a job with the 
marine division. I was there a number of months and from there 
I went to the Pere Marquette Railroad as a fireman and worked there 
a year and then transferred, for personal reasons, to the Grand Trunk 
Western Eailroad as a fireman. I terminated my employment with 
them just prior to leaving Detroit. 

At the time that I quit Grand Trunk Western Railroad, I was work- 
ing in their department of investigation. 

Mr. Tavenner. When w^as it that you left Detroit? 

Mr. O'Hair. I believe it was May 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the time when you were employed at the 
Federal Mogul, marine division, were you interviewed by agents 
of the Military Intelligence Department? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. As the result of your interviews with them, were you 
referred, to another agency, an investigative agency of the United 
States Government ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. As the result of your reference to an investigative 
agency of the Government, did you become a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. O'Hair. It would have been early — in the early part of 1943 I 
signed an application card for membership into the Communist Party 
at an Earl Browder rally that was held at the Graystone Ballroom, up 
on Woodward Avenue. I can't recall the exact date. The chap who 
recruited me into the party, his name was Harry Glassgold. 

Mr. Tavtsnner. Will you spell that name, please ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Harry Glassgold, G-1-a-s-s-g-o-l-d. 

Mr. Tavenner. Harry Glassgold was the person who recruited you 
into the party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. After you were recruited into the party, did you 
make reports to a Government investigative agency of your experi- 
ences in the party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period of time did you continue 
with that work? 

Mr. O'Hair. 1943 to the spring of 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that Harry Glassgold was the person 
who recruited you into the party. Will you give the committee, 
please, any information you recall regarding the background of Mr. 
Glassgold, how he was emploj'ed, and any other information that 
would be of value to the connnittee, in your opinion? 

Mr. O'Hair. Harry Glassgold was an artist, watercolor was 
his favorite type of expression. I believe there are, or is a water 
color that hangs up in the Detroit Art Institute that was created by 
him. He earned his living as a hand stamper or hand letterer at the 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2715 

time I knew liim. He worked for a while with a local advertising 
firm by the name of Bass-Luckhoff. He was a very busy fellow, as 
in his spare time he carried on studies at "VVayne University, includ- 
ing his organizational activities for the Communist Party, 

Mr. Tavennek. I was ]ust going to ask you whether or not he held 
a position in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Haik. Yes. At the time that I was assigned to his club, he 
was organizational secretary of that club. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the club? Or, did it have 
a name at the time you joined it ? 

Mr. O'Hair. At that time it was known as branch 1, section 5, 
Communist Party, United States of America. 

Mr. Tavexner. Where did it hold its meetings? 

Mr. O'Hair. It held its meetings at 10 West Warren. That is the 
corner building. The first floor is taken up with a drug store called 
Max's Drug Store, and there is a bar and tavern and some other little 
stores, and then upstairs is office space. We had a double office up 
there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any common bond of interest between 
the members of that group ? I mean, were there persons engaged in 
one particular line of endeavor or members of any particular group? 

IMr. O'Hair. No, sir. The membership here appeared to be general 
and made up of people who had been assigned to that unit, due to their 
residence. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee what arrangements were 
made for tlie rental of the space that was used by it in conducting its 
meetings ? 

Mr. O'Hair. It was explained to me by liarry Glassgold that the 
lease for the office space was procured by a dentist by the name of 
Vern Piazza. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you spell the name? 

Mr. O'Hair. I do not know how to spell it. 

Mr. Tavenner. P-i-a-z-z-a ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I believe so. It sounds that way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, proceed. 

Mr. O'Hair. That this dentist had procured the office and signed 
the lease and then under the cover of that lease, Glassgold was able to 
establish the headquarters for branch 1, section 5 of the Communist 
Party, United States of America, at that location.^ 

Mr. Wood. Do you know Dr. Piazza ? - 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Have you ever met him ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I have seen him a time or two, but was never intro- 
duced to him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of your group of the Communist 
Party, to your knowledge? 

Mr. O'Hair. As far as I am aware, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any personal knowledge of his knowl- 
edge of the purposes for which this property was being used ? 



^ Investigration by the committee, incliiclinj? rontacts with the rental agent, confirmed 
that space at 10 East Warren was rented by Dr. Vern Piazza. 
- See testimony of Bereniece "Toby" Baldwin, p. 2926. 



2716 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. O'Haik. No, sir; I do not. All I have is Harry Glasso^old's 
statement that he rented the office, and apparently, according to Glass- 
gold, it was a smooth trick. 

I gather more or less from intimation that Piazza was aware that 
branch 1, section 5 was going to have their office there, but it is abstract. 
That is my knowledge concerning Piazza's knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the officers of branch 1, section 5, to which 
you were assigned ? 

Mr, O'Haik. Harry Glassgold was organizational secretary; 
Thomas Anderson, as I recall, was educational director. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell Anderson ? 

Mr. O'Hair. A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who else ? 

Mr. 0"Hair. Sis Cunningham, I believe, was literature director, 
S-i-s Cunningham. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us more identifying information re- 
garding Sis Cunningham? 

Mr. O'Hair. At the time I knew Sis Cunningham, she was working 
at the district office of the Communist Party, that would be district 7. 
That is when they were having their offices, their district offices, over 
on Grand River, I believe the address was 2415 Grand River, upstairs. 

Sis Cunningham was married to a newspaper reporter for the De- 
troit Times, I do believe, a fellow by the name of Gordon Friesen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name? 

Mr. OTIair. F-r-i-e-s-e-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the staff has checked that matter and 
Mr. Friesen left the employment of the newspaper referred to in 
1944, to accept employment in the OWL 

Mr. Ji\cKSON. That is the Office of War Information ? 

Mr. Taa^nner. Yes. 

Mr, Porter. Does counsel have knowledge of his present employ- 
ment ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. Mr. O'Hair, do you know anything of the 
present whereabouts of Mr, Friesen ? 

Mr, O'Hair, No, sir, I do not except that when they left Detroit, 
they were reported to have moved to New York City, N, Y. 

Mr. Tavenner, Can you give us any further descriptive informa- 
tion regarding the background of Sis Cunningham? 

Mr, O'Hair. Sis Cunningham was, as I was told, one of the Almanac 
Singers, some years ago when that was a popular organization of the 
Communist Party, 

Mr, Ta\t:nner. Do you know whether she was a native of Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. My understanding of the matter was that she 
was an Oklahoman, 

Mr. Tavenner. You have stated that both she and her husband were 
affiliated with this group, I do not recall whether you placed them 
in any official position in this group of the party or not. 

Mr. O'Hair. Sis Cunningham was, I believe, literature director, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you name other persons who were officers and 
then I will ask you to name those who were members of this group. 

Mr. O'Hair. Gus Anderson was financial secretary of this organi- 
zation and also was a painter. By that I mean he was in the line of 
interior decoration and exterior decoration and a member of the AFL. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2717 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, will you suspend just a moment so that I 
may make an announcement to the audience that is here? 

We are permitted to use these quarters by the courtesy of the cus- 
todian of this building and I regret very much that I am going to 
have to ask the audience to refrain from smoking in the room. If 
you have to smoke, of course, you can go outside but I will have to 
invoke that rule because it is the rule in this building. So please, 
do not smoke in the hearing room. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other persons whose names you can 
now recall who held official positions in branch 1 of section 5 of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. There is one other woman, but I have since — ^her 
name slips my mind and that would be about all, as far as the officers 
of that organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed to name those who were members 
of this group ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Ann Beiswenger. As 1 recall, she, too, had a function 
or did work down at the district office of district 7 — district 7 office 
at Grand River. I understand, too, that she was at the Lenin Univer- 
sity in 1931 or 1932, either a student or employee. 

Dewey Garrett : G-a-r-r-e-t-t. He was a machine tool operator in 
one of the Detroit industries. 

Edna Glassgold : That would be the wife of Harry Glassgold. She 
came here from New York City. She was a member, I believe, of 
the Theater Guild in New York City. She was here a number of 
months, possibly six or maybe a few more. During her stay in 
Detroit, she took employment with the Ford Motor Car Co. I was 
told that the purpose there was to remove a foreman ^ in one of the 
departments at the Ford Motor Car Co., that was interfering^ or 
impeding a certain project that the Communist Party had in mind 
regarding that area. I don't recall the exact type of frame that was 
used on the fellow, but it was of sufficient weight to cause the com- 
pany to discharge him. 

After this little assignment was over with, Edna quit her job with 
the Ford Motor Car Co. and returned to New York City. 

Mr. Wood. The discharge of that party was accomplished? 

Mr. O'Hair. That was the way it was told to me, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Frank Igleaisa ; I-g-1-e-a-i-s-a.^ He, too, was a mem- 
ber of the AFL painters' union. I believe it was a year or a year 
and a half later that I was approached by a functionary of the Com- 
munist Party — I don't recall this date or whether it was in my own 
club or another club — with the request that would I have any objec- 
tions to allowing my small apartment at 68 East Warren Avenue, to 
be used b)'^ Frank Igleisas and John Issaccs 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that last name, please ? 



* In May 1943. Edna Glasssrold, then employed in the Motor Building', filed charg:ea 
against Arthnr O'Brien. Jaclx Yerex, and .Tames Fraccassi. Motor Building committeemen. 
The charge, failing to prorierly represent Edna Glassgold before management, was nphekl 
by a trial committee. On May 2.3. 1943. the general council. Ford Local 600. confirmed the 
piiilty findings of the trial committee but reduced the penalty by permitting the defend- 
ants to return to work without retroactive pay and not permitting defendants to hold oflice 
for dnrntien of term of office then in effect. 

* Frank Iglesias. 



2718 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. O'Hair. John I-s-s-a-c-c-s ^ for a little conference that Frank 
Tgleisas and John Issaccs and a few of their friends wanted to hold. 
So on the appointed night Frank Igleisas and John Issaccs showed 
up and nobody else appeared. They discussed the AFL convention 
that was to be held in Chicago that year. They were laying the ground 
work then for opposition from the floor of that convention by friendly 
members or friendly delegates of the AFL. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you speak of "friendly delegates," friendly 
to whom ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Friendly to the cause of John Issaccs and Frank 
Igleisas, the Communist Party. Apparently I was not too familiar 
with the issues involved in that convention of the AFL, but there were 
several that Avere disapproved of by John Issaccs and Frank Igleisas 
and they were attempting to — their strategy being as I recall, was to 
form a block, in other words, so that the motion could not carry from 
the floor. 

I understand later, from what I read in the newspapers, that it was 
unsuccessful. The particular motions they were against were carried. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. Mary Reed Page.^ Sometimes she went 
under the name of Mary Page, and sometimes under the name of Mary 
Reed. She w^as the wife of Fred Page and quite a tomboy, as I recall. 
She drove a taxicab during the time I knew her here in the city. I 
had seen her at functions other than the club, the Communist Party 
club, of which she was a member, namely, the one I had belonged to. 

John Issaccs was apparently, to my way of understanding, a baker. 
I do not know too much about the man. He was very close-mouthed 
and, outside of the one or two individuals that he contacted at the 
meetings and functions wherein I had seen him, he didn't associate too 
much w^ith the general membership. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Will you spell his last name ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I-s-s-a-c-c-s. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. O'Hair, were you present at the conference be- 
tween these two gentlemen? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes; I was. 

Mr. Jackson. W^as it your impression that their opposition to the 
resolutions w^hich were to be offered was original with tliem, or were 
they discussing the implementation of a directive which they api^eared 
to have received? 

Mr. O'Hair. They were discussing the implementation of a di- 
rective. 

Mr. Jackson. Of a directive? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, of a directive. 

Mr. Jackson. That came out during the course of their conversa- 
tion ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. But the source of the directive was never made 
clear to me. 

Mr. Jackson. But it was obvious to you — was it? — that they had 
received, from a third party or a third person, instructions to put 
forward opposition to certain resolutions ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. 



^ .Tohn Issacs. 

2 Now ISfrs. Mary Davis, an employee of local 600. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2719 

Mr. Tam^-nner. Will you proceed ? 

Mr O'Hair. Reva Redstone was a maiden lady who was a recep- 
tionist and kept the books and ran the office of her brothers, who were 
architects here. They had an office in near downtown section here 

in Detroit. n i, 

Reva held no office as a functionary m the party. As 1 recall, she 
was from time to time associated with the Daily Worker committee, 
and I knew her durin"; her membership with the Daily Worker com- 
mittee for the club. She and I on many Sundays, Sunday af teriioons, 
would no down into the Greek neighborhood and sell the Daily 

Workers. . j. u i i 

Mr. Tavexner. How long did you remain a member ot branch 1, 

section 5 of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. From 1943 until 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your entire period of membership then was devoted 
to that club ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it change its name at any later time ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. It was known a short time after as the Midtown 
Communist Party Club, and then later on when they switched back 
from the Political Association to the Communist Party, U. S., it was 
known as the Midtown Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any official positions in the club, in 
this particular club? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. After the first 6 or 7 months that I had been 
a member, I was a member of the membership committee. At that 
time they were having some difficulty in motivating their large mem- 
bership. So, it was decided that they would set up membership 
captains ; in other words, the total membership of the club would be 
divided into units of 5 or 10 and for these units a membership captain 
would be appointed, whose job it was to contact these members, solicit 
their dues, and encourage them to attend meetings. 

Following that, I became a member of the press committee and the 
Daily Worker committee. In 1944 I became a member of the execu- 
tive committee of that organization and remained a member of the ex- 
ecutive committee until late in 1946. In order to be a member of the 
executive committee, you have to be a chairman of a committee. 

So that I can explain it a little more fully, it was divided this way : 
You had a membership chairman. You had an educational chair- 
man. You had a literature chairman, and sometimes, depending on 
how they felt about it, you had a financial chairman. Usually the 
organization's secretary took care of that. 

Then each one of these chairmen had a committee which would have 
anywhere from three to foui members. These committees would 
meet twice a month, and the general membership would meet twice 
a month. In other words, we would start off one week with an execu- 
tive meeting and the next week would be a general membership meet- 
ing. The program for the membership, general membership, the 
issues involved, having been decided at the previous executive meet- 
ing, the meetings were blueprinted. 

During my time as an executive committee member of this organiza- 
tion, I believe I was on, as I recall it, the press committee, and I was 
a delegate to the East Side Council. At one time I was on the politi- 
cal-action committee too, and as such I attended 



2720 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say "political-action committee," the 
political-action committee of wliat organization? 

Mr. O'Hair. Of the Communist Party. I was a delegate from my 
club to one or two district meetings that were held for Wayne County 
and that were held at the Lawyers' Building, on the ninth floor. I be- 
lieve it was sometime between 1944 and 1945 they moved from 2415 
Grand Eiver; that is, the district oflice of the Communist Party of the 
State of Michigan had moved its location from 2415 Grand Kiver to 
the ninth floor of the Lawyers' Building in downtown Detroit, and 
these meetings were held in "the district office in the Lawyers' Building. 

Then I attended as a member of the press committee — I attended 
several State press meetings and then one convention, one Daily 
Worker convention that was held, I believe, in 1945 at the Mirror Ball- 
room on upper Woodward Avenue. Then in 1946, until I left in 
1947, I was a delegate to the East Side Council of the Communist 
Party, District Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Before going into your functions in that respect, in 
regard to that office, as a member of the East Side Council, I want to 
go back to the beginning of your membership and ask you to explain 
a little more in detail how your meetings functioned and how the Com- 
munist Party functioned when you first became a member of it. 

Mr. O'Hair. I take that to mean the structure of our meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right, and how frequently you met and what 
you did. 

Mr. O'Hair. As I have stated previously, we had one — we had two 
executive meetings a month and two general membership meetings a 
month. The general membership meeting would follow an executive 
meeting, in which the course of the general membership meeting was 
outlined as to educational programs and the issues which had come 
down, or the projects, the directives, that had come down from the 
district office. They were discussed by members of the executive 
committee and sometimes the committee acted on those and put tliem 
into effect without consulting the general membership. At other 
times, the general membership was consulted, that is, they were allowed 
to have a little discussion but the will of the district prevailed and 
the directive was enforced. 

A meeting of a general membership nature would usually start with 
a collection of dues or reminder by the organizational secretary or 
the membership director that dues were in arrears and they would like 
to have prompt payment. Then that would be followed with an edu- 
cational program, which was usually delivered by the educational 
director of the club or the unit. In turn, there would be a discussion 
on that. There would be a discussion on that in which the general 
membership would participate. 

Then the literature director, who was charged with having a com- 
plete line of pamphlets and books on Communist Party educational 
material, would go among the members and stress the purchase of 
certain of these books and pamphlets which usually pertained to the 
issue of the day that the Communist Part}' was involved in. 

Mr, Tavenner. In other words, there was a training course within 
your club composed of the study of the Communist Party literature, 
which you had been expected to buy ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2721 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any list with you of Communist Party 
literature which vou acquired? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which you acquired during the course of your 
membership in the party? 

Mr. O'Hair. I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think it would be well at this time to read into 
the record what that literature consisted of. 

Mr. O'Hair (reading). 

Allen, James S. : World Monopoly and Peace. 

Bloor, Ella Reeve : We Are Many. 

Burns, Emile (edited by) : Handbook of Marxism. 

Dimitroff, Georcri : The United Front. 

Dutt, R. Palme : Britain in the World Front. 

Eisler, Nordon & Schreiner : The Lesson of Germany. 

Lozovsky, A. : Mars and the Trade-Unions. 

Marx, Karl : Capital. 

Seldes, George: The Catholic Crisis. 

Selsam. Howard: What Is Philosophy? 

Scott, John : Ethics of Evolution. 

Stone, Gilbert : A History of Labour. 

White, D. Fedotofe : The Growth of the Red Army. 

PAMPHLETS 

Allen, James S. : Who Owns America. 

Browder, Earl : Victory and After. 

Dennis, Eugene: America at the Crossroads; Postwar Problems and Com- 
munist Policy. 

Dennis, Eugene: Is Communism Un-American? 

Dennis, Eugene: Let the People Know. (The Truth About the Communists 
Which the Un-American Committee Tried to Suppress.) 

Dennis, Eugene : The People Against the Trusts. 

Farren, Harry Desmond : Capitalism or Communism. 

Fast, Howard : May Day, 1947. 

Fernsworth, Lawrence : Vatican and the War. A Task for Liberal Catholics. 

Foster, William Z. : American Trade-Unionism. 

Foster, William Z. : Organized Labor and the Fascist Danger. 

Foster, William Z. : Our Country Needs a Strong Communist Party. 

Foster, William Z. : Quarantine the Warmongers. 

Foster, William Z. : The Meaning of the Nine-Party Communist Conference. 

Foster, William Z. : The New York Herald Tribune's 23 Questions About the 
Communist Party, Answered by William Z. Foster. 

Foster, William Z. : The Strike Situation and Organized Labor's Wage and 
Job Strategy. 

Foster, William Z. : The Trade-Unions and the War. 

Foster, William Z. : Workers, Defend Your Unions. 

Gannett, Betty : The Communist Party and You. 

Garlin, Sender: Enemies of the Peace; Profits of the "Hate Russia" Gang. 

Henson, Dr. George S. : Make Mine Freedom. 

Hoke, Henry: It's a Secret. (The Shocking Truth Behind the Sedition 
Trials.) 

Johnson, Hewlett : Dean of Canterbury : The Soviet Power. 

King, Willisford I. : The Keys to Prosperity. 

Lenin, V. I. : The Young Generation. 

McConkey, Darel: Out of Your Pocket. (The Story of Cartels.) 

McDevitte, Harry S. : Communism and American Youth. 

Marx, Karl: Value, Price, and Profit (edited by Eleanor Marx Avellng). 

Miller, Moses : Crisis in Palestine. 

Mindel, J. : Outline for the Study of the Nature of the War and Problems 
of the War Ecomony. 

Mitchell, Louise : How to Fight High Prices. 

Morris, George : The Red-Baiting Racket and How It Works. 

Morris, George : The Trotskyite Fifth Column in the Labor Movement. 



2722 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Oak, Listen M. : Communist Strategy and Tactics. 

Raymond. Harry : Dixie Comes to New York. Story of tlie Freeport GI 

Slayings. 
Sayers, Michael and Kahn, Albert E. : The Great Conspiracy Against Russia. 
Schendel, Herman : Why Work for Nothing? 
Spivak, .Tohn L. : Pattern for American Fascism. 
Stalin, Joseph : Defects in Party Work and Measures for Liquidating Trot- 

skyite and other Double-Dealers. 
Stalin, Joseph : Mastering Bolshevism. 
Stalin, Joseph : Problems of Leninism. 
Tank, Herb: Inside Job. (The Story of Trotskyite Intrigue in the Labor 

Movement. ) 
Toole, H. M. : Communist Action vs. Catholic Action. 
Zetkin, Clara : Lenin on the Woman Question. 

Then there were miscellaneous works which were not considered 
miscellaneous by the party, such as the "Constitution of the U. S. S. R." 
and the "Marxist Study Series No. 1 : the Theory and Practice of 
the Communist Party." 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall seeing the Communist Manifesto as 
part of the Communist literature at those meetings? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavekner. Do you also recall the use of "State and Revolu- 
tion" by Lenin? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

]\Ir. Tavenxer. Were they required reading by the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. O Hair. Yes, They were included in the little works of Lenin, 
which every time they had a raffle or every time they wanted to raise a 
little money, or you were extra good at some organizational finance- 
raising scheme, you were rewarded with a set of these books, and they 
were also on sale at the book store and by the literature directors for 
the various clubs, 

Mr. Tavenner, In that set that you referred to, I believe there are 
as many as 31 books, are there not? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true; yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Would tJiese various publications extend over a long 
period of time, I mean with reference to your membership, or were 
most of them or a great many of them to be found at any given meeting 
which you attended? 

Mr. OTIair. The books, the hard-bound and some of the larger 
cloth-bound or pajier-bound volumes, were continuous. The pamph- 
lets which sold for a nickel or 2 cents, sometimes 3, maybe a dime, 
were more pertinent. They pertained to the party program or the 
issues involved, say, within a 30- or a 60-day period possibly. 

Mr, elAGKSON. Current matters? 

Mr. O'Hair. Cui'ient matters, yes, sir. And they would be sold at 
each general membership meeting. At the time, however, the Com- 
munist Party Book Store was always open, and members were invited 
to augment their reading material from purchases at these book 
stores. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. O'Hair, where were the party book stores located? 

Mr. O'Hair. There was one, as I recall in this area — when the office 
of district 7 of the Communist Partv of the State of Michigan was 
located at 2415 Grand River, the book store was located across the 
street from it. Then, later on, when the district office of district 7 
of the Communist Party of the State of Michigan moved to the Law- 
yers' Building, the book store was incorporated within the district 
office in the Lawyers" Building. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2723 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand you paid dues as a member of branch 
1, section 5 Club of the Communist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What dues did you pay? That is, what was the 
amount of the dues ? 

Mr. O'Hair. In 1946, the dues were the following: Incomes over 
$60 per week, $2 per month ; incomes $25 to $60 per week, $1 per month ; 
incomes under $25 per week, 35 cents a month ; and unemployed paid. 
10 cents a month. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that record which you are referring to ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is a membership card, 1946 membership card in 
the Communist Party, U. S. A. 

Mr. Tavenner, Was it the card issued to you? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. It is issued in the name of Richard OTIair, 
Detroit, Mich., and it is signed by Carl AYinter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you object to it being introduced as an exhibit 
so that it may be photostated and returned to you after it has been 
l^hotostated? 

Mr. O'Hair. I have no objections. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer his card in evidence 
and ask that it be marked "O'Hair exhibit 1." 

Mr. Wood. The document may be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "O'Hair exhibit No. 1," and 
received in evidence.)^ 

Mr. Wood. And would you please let the members of the com- 
mittee examine it. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask one question ? 

The question was asked you, What dues did you pay ? You did not 
answer that question. 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, that would depend upon the amount of money 
that I was making. At the time I was firing on the railroad and 
probably making $135 every 2 weeks' period, so I was paying $2 a 
month. 

Mr. Moulder. In the beginning I did not clearly understand the 
cause for your becoming a member of the Communist Party, of this 
section, branch 1 of section 5. 

Mr. O'Hair. It was at the request of the Government agency. 

IVIr. IMouLDER. What Government agency was that ? 

Mr. OTIair. The Federal Bureau of Investigation. 

Mr. Moulder. Were you so employed by the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation ? 

Mr. O'Hair. As an undercover agent. 

Mr. Moulder. W^ere you paid a salar}^ ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. 

Mr. IMoulder. How many members belonged to branch 1, 
section 5 ? 

]Mr. O'Hair. It fluctuated. At one time I think there were close 
to oOO, and then it would drop down to 147, sometimes as low as' 100. 

Mr. Moulder. Can you give us more detailed information on what 



1 See p. 2724. 

97097— 52— pt. 1- 



2724 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 



O'Haie Exhibit No. 1 



R\&H1> AND OUTi€S OF f ARTY MEMBERS 

To ^itand^ ciub metfJngs, read '<he Party 
press p«d {iterafofe. pay dua* r«g«i}arly and 
ba activa on bsha'f of th« program and 
poiidej of tba Party. 

To ai ftll t«r)»5 loyaily <5ef»ft.^ tha {pteresft 
of fh« wofUn9c!a« agaiost the forces of 
fascism and reaction. 

To figlif agalnsf' a?I forms of natfona! cp- 
pr«55ion, discfimir.ifion and sogreqafion, ^r.d 
all tdaologkal infiuencs* artd practices of 
"racial" iheoHes. 

To iiabi for the fuir socJa!, political and 
"economic equalfty of the Negro peopte, for 
Negro ar.d whita unify. 

To partJcipafe tr. worittog oaf all poiicies 
and fat!;s of H»» club, .jod to rjgyfiriy an- 
am?re ff^a locution of tuch polfcmj. 

To vota fcr ail offJcan. commffteas and 
delegates, and b« eiacied fo any offtca or 
commtttse in accord wiifi provisions of fhe 
Cen»;iJtitioft, 

Jo app«a» any decision w'fh whlci> fftw« h 
disagreem«nf fo fh» next higher body, carry- 
ing ouf the decision while app^sil is pendlmj. 

To strive fo mas^et f.he prc-aram and poltctei 
of _t!ia Party, ffje prindpies of Marxism- 
tem.-'.lsnr?. 



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?OLfTICA!. AFFAIRS 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2725 

caused your employment by the FBI, what contact resulted in your 
employment ? 

Mr. O'Hair. They contacted me and through their own methods 
they led up to the question : Would I have any objections to joining 
the Communist Party and to make reports of what transpired avail- 
able to them ? 

Mr. MoTJLDER. And who asked you that ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Who asked me that? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. O'Hair. Do you want the gentleman's name? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think possibly that is confidential. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, I noticed attached to the card or folded 
in the card, your Communist Party «ard, is a receipt bearing date 
March 29, 1947, showing it was for membership dues for the Midtown 
branch and it is signed "Matilda." Will you examine that and state, 
if you can recall, who was the person that signed the receipt. 

Mr. O'Hair, That would be Matilda Maxwell, the wife of Jesse 
Parrish. Matilda Maxwell at that time was — oh, it would be hard 
to say — everybody in the executive committee chipped in and helped 
on the membership in the collection of dues, and I believe took this 
for Elinor Laffery Cook ^ who, as I recall, was the membership direc- 
tor of the organization at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know her present name? 

Mr. O'Hair. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what her occupation became at any 
later date? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. When I knew Elinor Laffery Cook, she was 
a school teacher in the public schools system in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Wood. Was she at that time a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not she is still employed 
in the public school system of the city of Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, we have subpenaed or endeavored to 
subpena a person by the name of Elinor Cook Maki as to whom our 
information is it is the same person, but we have not been able to 
serve a subpena upon her. 

Will you tell the committee what plan there was, if any, on the 
part of the Communist Party, to solicit contributions from its mem- 
bers, aside from the matter of the payment of dues ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, my memory is a little hazy on that. As I recall, 
there were assessments and I believe on that membership card there 
is an assessment stamp, and that was a convention assessment stamp 
of 50 cents. Most of the time it was outright donations. On several 
occasions they held picnics out here in the west end of Detroit for 
the purpose of raising funds. Other times there were little local 
places — L have in mind the small dance hall that sets back off of John 
K. — I can't recall the exact location or street but it will serve as an 
example — that was rented, and the party members held dances there. 



^ Now Mrs. Elinor Maki, wliose testimony appears on pp. 2855-2860. 



2726 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

We bought warm beer at 35 cents a bottle and paid a like price for 
sandwiches or whatever else the members would put together and 
then sell in order to raise funds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any effort made to collect contributions 
or make assessments of substantial amounts? 

Mr. O'Hair. That would not have been handled through a club 
unit. That would have been handled by a special person with a spe- 
cial listing. I mean they would have knowledge of who those money 
contacts were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you know whether there were any special 
lists of persons who would be solicited for money for the Communist 
Party? 

JMr. O'Hair. Yes. I was aware that it was known as Century Club, 
and that these people from tim« to time would be contacted for large- 
size contributions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge of any persons 
who engaged in making such solicitations? I mean by that. Did you 
talk to anyone at any time who admitted to you that they had solicited 
for funds of the character you have described ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. As I recall, it was just an open-and-shut state- 
ment that was made that there had been a tea partv down at the Book- 
Cadillac Hotel 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. I am not asking you to tell me some- 
thing that someone told you about someone else. 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking for hearsay. 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking for a situation where an individual 
told you that he or she had made solicitations of that character. 

Mr. O'Hair. That is what I am building up to — that it was for the 
purpose of raising funds for some functionary — I recall it was an 
out-of-town functionary — and that they were very well pleased with 
the amount of money that had been raised, and this person was Ann 
Ganley, wife of Nat Ganley. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a person known to you to be a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. That' is correct. 

Mr. Wood. How do you spell that last name ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I believe it is G-a-n-1-e-y. 

IMr. Tavenner. Do you know whether deportation proceedings were 
instituted against her at a later date? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you testify? 

Mr. O'Hair. I was the identifying witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not she is at this time under 
order of deportation? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would have no knowledge ; no, sir. 

]\lr. Tavenner. You referred to the address a little while ago of the 
State headquarters of the Communist Party in Detroit 

Mr. Wood. May I ask a question to get the record perfectly straight : 

Did you get information from this party as to the name or identity 
of any person that was contacted for the purpose of seeking contri- 
butions from them in substantial amounts? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2727 

Mr. O^Hair. No, sir. As I recall, -though, I was at her house one 
afternoon when she was mailing out announcements, a little letter 
or something, and there were considerable names. I think there were 
25 or 30 of these envelopes all addressed, and she gave them to me 
with the request that I mail them. Her house, as I recall, was situated 
a good block and a half from I think it is Dexter, and there was a mail 
l)OX on the corner, eater-cornered across the street, on the corner of 
Dexter, and I made a pass at the mail box and I came on down here to 
the Federal Building and I called my Bureau contact, and they met me 
across the street in a ])ool hall and they took the envelopes and I kicked 
around town for a while until they returned and handed me the enve- 
lopes back. Then I proceeded back up to Dexter and this street and 
put the envelopes in tlie box. At that time tliey were all zone numbered 
and the postal mark was on them. It had the zone too. I was afraid 
that if they weren't mailed from there, it might create some suspicion, 
so — 

Mr. Wood. But you yourself did not maintain a list of them ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No,' sir. " 

Mr. Tavenner. You identified the address of the headquarters of 
the Michigan State organization of the Communist Party, and I 
believe you gave the number as 2415 or possibly it was 2419. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes; something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know which it was ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No ; I have forgotten. It was probably 2419. 

Mr. TvvENNER. You have told us where branch 1, section 5 of the 
Communist Party met when you first joined it. After the Communist 
Party changed its name to the Communist Political Association in 
1944 and set up its neighborhood clubs, did the Midtown Club meet 
at the same place, or did it have another meeting placed 

Mr. O'Hair. It stayed for a while at the same place, and then moved 
down to — as I recall — 3513 Woodward Avenue. It met upstairs there. 
It was a building with store fronts downstairs and small offices up- 
stairs. Harry GTassgold at the time was running, during the week- 
dajs or week nights, an art studio there, so on our meeting days it 
would be available to us. And as I recall, from there we went over to 
the Twelve Horsemen's Club. That would be located at 114 Erskine 
Street. Later on it was known as the Civic Center. And then when 
the Communist Party dropped the ''Political Association" and re- 
turned to Communist Party USA, and with the splitting up of the 
original Midtown Club into three units, we of the Midtown Club 
moved up on Brush Street, the 5700 block, as I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you please tell the committee just what the 
Communist Party organization was in Detroit prior to the time the 
■Communist Political Association was established — that is, what units 
there were of the party other than section 1, branch 5, prior to the 
establishment of the Communist Political Association. 

Mr. O'Hair. I imagine you are referring to factory branches. They 
had factory branches in which the personnel or employees of various 
factories became members of these Communist cells at the branch, at 
the factory where they worked and these branches were known by the 
name of — well, like it would be DeSoto plant or Briggs body. At 
the same time, they maintained their section councils and the district 
■office. 



2728 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. The district office was known as No. 7, I believe, 
according to your statement ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. That is for the State of Michigan, yes. Then 
you would have your section councils, your State committees, and 
from there down you would have yoiu* branches, and they could be 
either community or factory branches. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you stated that after a certain period of time 
the Midtown Club was divided into three branches. 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the names of those three branches? 

Mr. O'Hair. Uptown, Midtown, and Downtown. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. The branch to which you belonged, or rather the 
section of branch 1 to which you belonged was No. 5. Can you de- 
scribe the other branches — that is the first four, and whether or not 
there were more than five. 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir, I cannot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your knowledge is limited to the section which you 
were a member of ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the factory branches. Do you know 
what section they were concentrated in ? 

Mr. O'Hair. The}'' would have been concentrated throughout the 
automobile industry and other industries pertaining to the supply of 
either fabricated or material goods for the automobile industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what change was there in the plan of organiza- 
tion of the party after the establishment of the Communist Political 
Association in 1944 and the temporary suspension of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. If I get your question correctly, they disbanded or 
made an effort to disband their factory branches, and, in turn, brought 
these former members of the Communist Party factory branches into 
the neighborhood clubs, the purpose being to give it a wider com- 
munity base in order to have a better chance of fulfilling their objec- 
tives which were threefold : The advancement of the Communist Party 
program in the trade-union movement, political, and the community 
life of the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you state again what you have told the 
committee were the objectives of the Communist Party of Detroit? 

]\Ir. O'Hair. They felt that when they became a political association 
under Earl Browder that it was of prime importance to develop or- 
ganizationally in the community ; that they could carry on their trade- 
union activities from tlie community unit. The Communist Party 
program for that period was threefold: It had to do with the trade- 
union movement, the political, and the community life of the city of 
Detroit, and that by gathering a bigger base upon which to work, they 
would have a greater nmount of siiccesR. Yon see. the clubs without 
your factory branches — your neigliborhood clubs were small and 
sometimes were ineffective, whereas with the militant trade unionists 
you had a drive and a push there that was needed to create a com- 
munity organization with the community effect. 

Mr. Ta\t2nner. Then by reason of the pushing of members of the 
industry branches into the midtown section, you were able to meet a 
great many persons who were members of the Communist Party and 
scattered over a considerable area ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2729 

Mr. O'Haie. That is true. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. In Detroit? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the situation after the receipt of the 
Duclos letter which brought about the removal of Browder and the 
abolislunent of the Communist Political Association and the reinsti- 
tution of the work of the Communist Party as such ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I'm telling you, there was a 4-week period where chaos 
ruled. They didn't know which way to turn. Browderism, com- 
mmiism, the political association under Browder had to come to a stop, 
and there were no directives from the national office to tell them what 
to do. It was just in a state of chaos. They were milling around. 
They didn't know what to do. Half the organization was pro-Brow- 
der, a portion of the organization detested Foster, and it took con- 
siderable amount of work and education within their own ranks to get 
it going again. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat resulted from that? 

Mr. O'Hair. They dismissed the political association and resumed 
being the Conununist Party of the U. S. A. And with that, they re- 
instituted their factory branches and went back into the industry 
here locally, and I imagine in other places too, and started the build- 
ing of those factory branches again. The emphasis seemed to be on 
the reconstruction of the old factory branches in industries they had 
previously been in, and the solicitation or creation of new factory 
branches. 

Mr. Wood. May I interrupt at that point. Do I understand then 
that finally directives came down from a higher level as to who they 
should follow ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. 

Mr. Wood. Did those who had previously been following the leader- 
ship of Browder withdraw their allegiance and join the other crowd? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Was there any question raised about it ? 

Mr. O'Hair. There were a few, but they were rather muted. When 
the tide began to swing toward Foster, you went along. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you ever know of a branch directive which didn't 
come from someone higher up ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir, I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then there was no right of free determination ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Among the rank and file of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. They accepted dictates of higher functionaries in 
the party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Potter. Have you ever known a situation where supporters of 
Browder, after they had received the line, then became vocal in con- 
demning Browder? Did that exist? 

Mr. O'Hair. I remember Harry Glassgold and I were having a little 
bite to eat one time and he was impressing me with the fact that he 
knew Earl Browder, and he was telling me how he was in this restau- 
rant in New York City and this little man came along and walked 
past him looking like he was carrying all the problems of the world 
on his shoulders, and Harry said, "I looked up and I said : ^Who is 



2730 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

that?' <and my companion said : 'That is Earl Browder. He is a won- 
derful man.' " 

After a passage of time and when the organization had switched 
over and Browder was no longer with the party, I happened to men- 
tion that fact to Harry Glassgold and he said, "Xo, I didn't say that. 
I said Browder was never any good." 

Mr. Tavenner. Then after the Diiclos letter and the desertion of 
Browder and the abolishment of the Communist Political Association 
tlie}^ went back to the former type of organization of the Communist 
Party ; is that what you mean to say ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct, with added intensification of Com- 
munist Party organization in the industry. You see, they felt they 
had lost a lot of ground under Browder; that Browder's political 
association era was one of collaboration. He believed he would get 
along with industry. But under Foster, they intensified the branch 
set-up in the industries realizing that the war was on again. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an opportunity to learn the approxi- 
mate number of units or cells of the Communist Party within industry 
in Detroit? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, in Detroit, only for the section — the East Side 
Council, for the eastern portion of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by the East Side Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That was set up after, as I recall, Thomas had lost 
his presidency of the UAW-CIO and Reuther had taken over. They 
divided the city of Detroit down the middle — the Communist Party 
did that — and they set up an East and West Side Council, and these 
councils were the places where directives from the district office, plus 
discussion by the delegates — each branch and each community club 
elected or selected a number of delegates to attend these councils, and 
from that they would discuss the directive, and then they would take 
back to their factory branches or to their community clubs the dis- 
cussion and what had been decided in regards to program, and they 
would discuss it with their executive membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, that is another instance in which 
directions were taken down from above rather than making decisions 
in the party cells? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. 

Mr. Ta^-enner. Now, were you a member of the East Side Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the dividing line between the East and 
the West Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I forget now. but I would hazard a guess, if guesses 
are permissible, and I would say it would probably be Woodward. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Woodward Avenue ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many cells or groups of the Communist Party, 
if vou recall, were within the East Side Council of which you were a 
member ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Around 17 or 18, 1 believe. 

Mr. Wood. You mean that many groups ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Approximately, if you know, what would be the mem- 
bership on the average of the grou]:)s ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That would be hard to determine, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2731 

Mr. Wood. How many were in your group ? 
Mr. O'Hair, We had around 147 members. 

Mr. Wood. In your group ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes; that were actually active. 

Mr. Wood. Would you say that was above or below average, if you 
have any knowledge about it at all ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would say it was about average. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, can you give us the names of the groups 
within the East Side Council of the Communist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, a factory branch would be the Bohn Alumi- 
num — I will just read them off of here : 

Bohn Aluminum Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A.; Nat 
Turner Club of the Communist Party, IT. S. A. ; the First Congres- 
sional District Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. ; the Oakland 
Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A.; the 205 ^ UAW-CIO— that 
would be a factory branch; the 155^ UAW-CIO, factory branch; 
Plymouth Motors Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. ; Packard 
Motors Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. ; Chrysler Motors ^ Club 
of the Communist Party, U. S. A.; Briggs Body Club of the Com- 
munist Party, U. S. A.; United States Kubber Club of the Com- 
munist Party, U. S. A.; Dodge Car Club of the Communist Party, 
U. S. A. ; and then the Uptown Communist Club of the Communist 
Party, U. S. A. ; Midtown Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. ; the 
Downtown Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A, ; the Fourteenth 
Congressional District Communist Party Club, U. S. A. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, that represented the groups or cells of the 
Communist Party within the East Side Council, of which you were a 
member ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Moulder. Those are the names ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the names of the cells 
or groups within the West Side Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. To a certain extent. I understand that there were 
four locals over there and 

Mr. Wood. What do you mean by "locals"? 

Mr. O'Hair. UAW-CIO locals. You see, the basic industry on that 
side would be the DeSoto plant, Kelsey-Hayes Wheel, the Cadillac 
Motor Car Co.. and I believe Lincoln, and of course, the Ford Motor 
Car Co., and it would have been a cell or branch in the Ford INIotor 
Co., Cadillac, and the De Soto plant that I know of. Kelsey-Hayes 
I am not sure of, and neither am I sure of Lincoln. 

Mr, Taa^nner. But in referring to the Ford plant, for instance, 
you are not acquainted with the number of cells or branches that were 
witliin that industry ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, that is true. 

Mr. Ta-stenister. Have you named Timken? 

Mr. O'Hair. Timken Gear & Axle -? 

Mr. Tavenner, Yes. 



1 The Communist Party desifrnated their clnhs by the same rlesitmation useci by the 
UAW for local identification. As nsed in these yolnnies, designations such as Local 205 
or 155 imply nothinsr more than that, according to the records of the Communist Party, 
an active romnumist unit was composed of members of the desisnated local. 

- See testimony of Wayne Salisbury and Bereniece "Toby" Baldwin for organization of 
the Communist Party for the State of Michisan. 



2732 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Tavexxek. Well, do you know whether there was a cell there 
or not ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Xo; I do not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the names of 
the members of the East Side Council, but before doing so, let me see 
if I understand the situation plainly. 

There was a representative from each of the 17 or 18 cells within 
the east side area? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenxer. And those 17 or 18 individuals made up the East 
Side Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. Sometimes there would be more 
than that number. I attended one meeting there where I imagine 
there were pretty close to 70 in attendance, that being a meeting of 
the East Side Council, but as I recall, that was the initial meeting. At 
times some of these delegates would bring friends of theirs from 
their shops. 

Mr. Tavexner. When you say "friends," what are you referring to? 
Are you referring to non-Communists or are you referring to Com- 
munists ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Communists. 

Mr. Jacksox. These were closed meetings of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. You were notified by a card in the mail. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Then at the meetings of the representatives of these 
groups, you received directives from the district? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. From the district office which was on a higher level? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And it was the duty of you representatives to take 
back the Communist Party line to your particular cells? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, will you give us the names of the representa- 
tives from these various cells who comprised the membership of the 
East Side Council ? 

Mr. Potter. Before that is done, Mr. Counsel, can you identify 
them by date as to approximately what date would this identification 
have taken place? 

Mr. O'Hair. 1947. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Possibly I should ask you first, if the East Side 
Council had officers? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And an organization of its own? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

A fellow by the name of Chris Alston was chairman. Paul Brooks 
was secretary. Jerry Boyd ^ was educational director, and Carmelia 
Fordham ^ was press director. These meetings were held downstairs 
in the basement of Schiller Hall. That is located at the intersection 
of St. Aubin and Gratiot Avenue. 

ISIr. Tavexxer. You referred to a person by the name of Carmelia 
Fordham. Are you certain of the spelling of that name ? 



^ Gerald (Jerry) Boyd. 
2 Carneller Foreman. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2733 

Mr. O'Hair. Do you mean the first name or the hist? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, both. According to tlie committee's informa- 
tion, the S})elling is C-a-r-n-e-1-l-e-r for the first name, and F-o-r-e- 
m-a-n for the last. Do yon know whether or not that is correct and 
whether that is the person to whom you refer ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, I don't. My impression was it was "Fordham." 

Mr. Tavexner. F-o-r-d-h-a-m? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Now, on April 6, 1947, there was a meeting held at Schiller Hall 
of the East Side Council, and a few of the people that were present 
at this meeting were Chris Alston, Paul Brooks, Jerry Boyd, Car- 
melia Fordham, Helen Allison Winter, Midge 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. You referred to Helen Allison 
Winter? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'^nner. Do you know whether she was the wife of Carl 
Winter? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what was Carl Winter's position in the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. He was chairman of district 7, State of Michigan, 
Communist Party, U. S. A. 

Midge Asslin 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you spell the last name ? 

Mr. O'Hair. A-s-s-1-i-n; Paul Henley,^ Ann Kelly, Maurice Cook, 
Elinor Laffery Cook, Jesse Parrish, Bob Reed 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell "Eeed" ? 

Mr. O'Hair. R-e-e-d. Terry Clark — that was all of the people, as I 
recall at that time that I knew. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you were a member of the East Side Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. And von were a representative of which club? 

Mr. O'Hair. Of the Midtown Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the names of the officers 
of the Midtown Club at the time you were its representative to the 
council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Jesse Parrish was chairman, as I recall. Maurice Cook 
was organizational secretary. Matilda Maxwell was literature di- 
rector 

Mr. Tavenner. Not quite so rapidly. 

Mr. O'Hair. Matilda Maxwell was literature director. Elinor 
Laffery Cook was membership director. Ann Kelly was political 
director. Esther Seigel was educational director. James Anderson 
was codirector of the political action committee with Ann Kelly. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell "Anderson?" 

Mr. O'Hair. A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any position with the Midtown Club 
at that time besides representing it on the East Side Executive 
Council ? 

Mr. O'Hair. As I recall, I was a member of the educational com- 
mittee of the Midtown Club at that time. 



» For testimony of Paul Henley, see Communism in the Detroit Area — Part 2. 



2734 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Yon told lis earlier that you had been, at one time, 
the press director of the chib. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were your duties as press director ? 

Mr. O'Hair. To make sure that the Daily Worker was ready for 
sale at all club meetings of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party, U. S. A., and to organize if and when I could, the sale of the 
Daily Worker throughout our territory by individuals of the club, 
members of the club. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVill 3'ou tell the committee how manj?^ of those 
persons whose names you have given as officers, were active in your 
club as officers at the time vou left Detroit in 1947 ? Can you tell us 
that? . ' 

Mr. O'Hair. Possibly with the exception of Esther Seigel, the rest 
of tliem were. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you think was the maximum number of 
members of the Midtown Club while you were a member of it ? 

Mr. O'Hair. As I stated before, at one time I believe it ran close to 
300 — 280 or better, and then there was a period in there when it dropped 
to around 147, and I think it went even low^er than that for a while. 
The lowness — I mean the smallness — the reduction of the general 
membership wasn't necessitated so much by absenteeism or people 
who had dropped their membership, as it was due to the result of 
returning to the factory branches, the former members of our club who 
had come to us from the factory branches. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of Elinor Laffery Cook. Can you tell 
us more of her background, her occupational background? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, with the exception that she was a school teacher in 
the public school system of the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. As you have previously described? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. And I believe her mother and father 
lived in Ann Arbor, Mich. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, I do not want to unduly burden the witness, 
yourself, or the members of the committee, or the audience. I believe, 
at this time, I will declare a recess for 15 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Let there be order in the hearing room, gentlemen. 

Are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

In the course of your testimony, Mr. O'Hair, you identified the 
names of the cells or groups of the Communist Party which comprised 
the group within the east side area of the party. I hand you a paper 
bearing date April 6, 1947, purporting to be the list of cells which 
you named. Will you state whether or not you made that record, and, 
if so, when ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That would be April 6, 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that typewritten statement of the names of the 
cells a statement prepared by you ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire, Mr. Chairman, to offer the list in evidence 
and ask that it be marked "O'Hair Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Wood. It may be introduced. 

(The document referred to was marked "O'Hair Exhibit No. 2"' and 
received in evidence.) 



to 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2735 

Mr. Tavenner. You also testified, Mr. O'Hair, regarding the per- 
sons present at a meeting of the Communist Party — of the East Side 
Council of the Communist Party — on April 6, 1947. I hand you a 
typewritten statement bearing date of April 6, 1947, and ask you if 
that is the list which you gave and whether or not you prepared the 
list. 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. I prepared this list. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when did you prepare it? 

Mr. O'Hair. April G, 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have this put in evidence, Mr. Chairman, 
and request that it be marked "O'Hair Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, it may be received. 
(The document referred to was marked "O'Hair Exhibit No. 3" and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You gave us the name of Ann Kelly as a person who 
occupied an office in the midtown section of the Communist Party. 
Can you identify her more definitely as to her occupational backl- 
gi'ound, for instance? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. I never had any knowledge as to whether or 
not she had to work for a living. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether she was a native-born De- 
troiter? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. My impressions are that she was from the east. 
New York City, and I am also under the impression that she was a 
paid functionary of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why did you conclude that she was a paid func- 
tionary ? 

Mr. O'Hair. From the fact that she was able to support herself 
without any definite means of support. At no time in my association 
with Ann Kelly did I ever hear her make reference to any form of 
employment. It seemed that her time was spent a great deal at the 
district office and at club meetings, and doing work of an organiza- 
tional nature for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether she had any connection with 
leadership classes in the Communist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. All that I know in reference to that question is that 
she approached me, I believe it was at one of the club meetings some- 
time in March of 1947, and suggested that I enroll in a class on wages, 
prices, and profits, which was to be held at the Civic Center at 114 
Erskine Street. The instructor of this class was to be a Jack White, 
who, as I recall, was a member of the State Committee of the Commu- 
nist Party on trade-unionism. I told her that I would be glad to 
attend, and I was notified when to appear for the first session. The 
first session of four classes on wages, prices, and profits, was held 
April 8, 1947, in the reception room of the Civic Center. The classes 
began at 8 p. m. and ended at 10 p. m. 

Altogether there were five members of the Communist Party, 
IT. S. A., present, and they were as follows: Jack White, instructor; 
Gay Bailey 

Mr. Tavenner. When you come to names, I suggest you go a little 
slower, please. It is rather difficult to get. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. And a young lady whose first name was Mildred, 
the last name unknown. 



2736 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me make another sufrgestion to yon : "When you 
use a name and you are uncertain of the s])e]lino:, make a statement 
tliat your s])elling is the phonetic spelling rather than the actual spell- 
ing of the name. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavp:nner. All I'ight, sir. Xow, do you know anything ahout 
the backgi'ound of the person you referred to as Bailey ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to a person by the name of James 
Anderson as one of the members of your midtown group. Can you 
give us further identifying information with regard to him, par- 
ticularly with regard to his occupational backgi-ound? 

Mr. O'Hair. James Anderson at the time that I knew him lived at 
511 Theodore Street. Detroit, Mich., and he was, to the l>est of my 
knowledge, a member of local 600 of the Ford River Rouge plant. 
At the same time, he was a member of several state committees of 
the Communist Party, and had been a delegate to the national con- 
ventions in 1945 and 1946 of the Communist Party, U. 8. A. 

During a mayoralty campaign here in Detroit, Mich., he was a sal- 
aried worker for the Political Action Committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Political Action Committee of what? 

Mr. O'Hair. Of the UAW-CIO. He was a delegate to the East Side 
Council of the Communist Party of the State of Michigan, and as- 
sisted, according to his own statements, in the organization of Com- 
munist Party cells at Bohn Aluminum Corp., Ford Motor Car Co., 
and the Frigid Foods Corp. He stated that he had been active in 
Communist Party affairs since 1932, was active in the unionization 
of the Ford Motor Car Co. in 1936, and was very active in the political 
intrigues of the Communist Party, district 7, State of Michigan, and 
in 1944 helped to organize the Thirteenth Congressional Democratic 
or Political Club, located at the time at 114 Erskine Street, Detroit, 
Mich. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Mr. Chairman, I think out of fairness to James 
Anderson, I should state for the benefit of the record at this point 
that he has appeared in executive session and has admitted his former 
Communist Party membership and that he had completely broken 
with the Communist Party since 1947. 

You were asked a question, I believe, by one of the members of the 
committee as to the location of the Communist Party book store, and 
I believe you gave us the location. Do you recall whether the loca- 
tion was changed at a later date? 

Mr. O'Hair. During my stay in Detroit, I recall it only being at 
two places that I have previously described. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have exhibited to the staif, Mr. O'Hair, a note 
book which I see in front of you. What does that note book contain ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, it contains the names of members of the Com- 
munist Party in the organization to which I belonged. It also con- 
tains the names of people that I had met at State conventions and 

Mr. Tavenner. Conventions of what? 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, it would be the State convention of the Com- 
munist Party, district 7. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does it also contain the names of persons whom 
you met at various Communist Party functions ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2737 

Mr. Tavenner. Other than State conventions ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the book contain also the names of pei-sons 
who, in some instances, you observed at Communist Party functions, 
but who were not known to you definitely to be members of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you prepare that list? 

Mr. O'Hair. I prepared the list from my set of card files that I had 
back in 1946—1947, rather. 

Mr. Tavenner. But when did you make the entries in the book 
which you have ? 

Mr. O'Hair. The entries in this book? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. O'Hair. They were made from these cards that, as I would 
attend a meeting and after 1 had finished my reports of the meeting, I 
would go over the reports, and then on the cards, I would note the 
names of tlie individuals who had been at these functions, meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. I meant to say, when did you transfer the informa- 
tion from your cards to the book that you have? 

Mr. O'Hair. Just prior to my leaving Deti'oit in 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, I wish you would refer to tlie books and 
give us the names of persons whom you knew to be members of the 
Communist Party as members of your own club, persons whom you 
saw at closed Communist Party meetings, and in each instance that you 
give the connnittee such identifying facts as would be helpful in a 
proper identification of the individuals. And let me add this: That 
in doing this, you give tlie committee tlie benefit of your recollection 
as to any particular activity within the Communist Party that the 
individual engaged in. 

Mr. O'Hair. Midge Asslin. 

IVIr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name please and state whether or 
not it is a phonetic spelling. 

Mr. O'Hair. A-s-s-1-i-n — w^as a functionary of the Midtown Club 
of the Communist Party. 

James Anderson, functionary and member of the Midtown Club of 
the Communist Party, also of the district. 

Gus Anderson, A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n — at one time during his association 
as a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist Party, was finan- 
cial secretary. 

Thomas Anderson— A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n — was a member of the INIidtown 
Club of the Conununist Party, and at one time held the office of 
educational director. 

Billy Allan — district office of district 7, Communist Party of the 
State of Michigan. I believe his title at the time that I was here was 
the Daily Worker representative. 

Mr. Moulder. As Mr. Tavenner said, is there any identification of 
those names you can give, because many people who have never been a 
Communist or never attended a Communist meeting might have the 
same name. Do you know their addresses or any other description you 
might give of those persons? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 



2738 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Moulder. Where they were employed or anything else about 
them ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Tavennek. Where you are able to give that information, I wish 
you would do so. 

Was William Allan a person well known in Detroit? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would say in certain circles; yes. 

Mr. Tavi<:n"ner. Have you described what his occupation was? 

Mr. O'Hair. He was known as tlie Daily Worker representative 
at the district office of the Communist Party, district 7, State of Michi- 
gan. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think that is sufficient, 

Mr. Jackson. What was his name? 

Mr. O'Hair. William Allan. 

Mr. Jackson. And all the rest of the William Allans who were never 
representatives of the Daily Worker can simply disregard this identi- 
fication. 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Helen Allison ' 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you know her married name? 

Mr. O'ITair. Winter, Mrs. Winter, Carl Winter's wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Carl Winter, you have told us, was the 
head 

Mr. O'Hair. The chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. The chairman of district 7 ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr, Tavenner. Wliich meant of the entire State of Michigan? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. At the time, I believe she was mem- 
bership director of district 7 of the State of Michigan. 

John Anderson — the times that I encountered John Anderson were 
at State conventions of the Communist Party, U. S. A. John Ander- 
son was an active trade-unionist, and at these conventions, as I recall, 
John Anderson would give speeches once in a while. 

Chris Alston — A-1-s-t-o-n — he was a member, and I believe chair- 
man of the East Side Council of the Communist Party, district 7, 
State of Michigan, 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this with regard to John Anderson : 
Do you know whether or not he was candidate for Governor on the 
Communist Party ticket in 1934? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir; I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, it is a matter of public record that 
a John Anderson was a candidate for such an office. 

Mr. O'Hair. Joe Bernstein — B-e-r-n-s-t-e-i-n — he was financial sec- 
retai-y. That is, he was financial secretary of the Communist Party, 
district 7, State of Miciiigan. When the membership directors of the 
local units of the Communist Party collected their membership dues, 
they would go down to the district office of the Connnunist Party and 
turn their funds over to Joe Bernstein, who, in turn, sometimes — 
well, sometimes he did and sometimes they did — made entries in the 
ledger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether his position was that of 
financial secretary or membership secretary ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would say at the time that I knew him, I believe 
membership secretary. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2739 

Mr. Ta\tenner. What would be the distinction between the two? 
It would seem to be very close. 

Mr. O'Hair. There wouldn't be any, as far as I am aware. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. O'Hair. Jerry Boyd — he was a member of the Midtown Club 
of the Communist Party. 

I\Ir. Tavenner. Do you know what his true first name was ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Gerald. And the last name is spelled B-o-y-d. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Can you identify him with further information? 

]\Ir. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Do you know where and how he was employed? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir. 

Mr. O'Hair. Ann Beiswenger — B-e-i-s-w-e-n-g-e-r — at one time she 
was — and when I say ''at one time," she was employed, I believe, by 
the district office of the Communist Party, district 7, State of Michi- 
gan, when said office was located up on Grand River, and at that time 
she was a member of branch 1, section 5 of the Communist Party. As 
I recall, she ran for a public office in one of the elections. 

Abner Berry ^ — B-e-r-r-y — State educational director. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what ? 

INIr. O'Hair. Of the Communist Party, district 7, State of Mich- 
igan. 

Hujro Bieswenser 



Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether this same person, Berry, is 
now on the staff of the Daily Worker ? 

]Mr. O'Hair. No ; I would have no knowledge of that. 

Hugo Beiswenger — B-e-i-s-w-e-n-g-e-r — husband of Ann Beiswen- 
ger, attended a meeting of the Midtown Club, and, as I recall, I 
have seen him at a convention, a State convention of the Communist 
Party, district No. 7, State of Michigan. 

Izzy Berenson — B-e-r-e-n-s-o-n — Izzy was known as the Daily 
Worker agent. He contacted all the Daily Worker press directors of 
the various clubs throughout the Detroit area and took their quotas 
for delivery of the Daily Worker. At the same time, he operated a 
newsstand, as I recall, at Griswold and Lafayette. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Hugo Beiswenger was a 
candidate for the National House of Representatives on the Com- 
munist Party ticket in November 1940? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would have no recollection of that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little bit in answering, 
please. 

INIr. O'Hair. Yes. I have no recollection of that. 

Paul Brooks: Member of the east side council of the Communist 
Party, district 7, State of Michigan. 

Gay Bailey — B-a-i-1-e-y — attended classes with me on the subject 
of wages, prices, and profits at the Civic Centre. 

Mr. Moulder. Are all of those members of branch 1, section 5? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. Chris Alston wouldn't be. I have designated as 
I have gone along where they have been members of branch 1, sec- 
tion 5, or the Midtown Club. It is synonymous. I mean they are one 
and the same organization. 



1 Currently one of the editors of the Daily Worker. 
97097 — 52 — pt. 1 3 



2740 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

J. Will Cooper — C-o-o-p-e-r — was a meniber of the Midtown Club, 
Communist Party. 

William Connors- — C-o-n-n-o-r-s — was a member of the Midtown 
Club of the Connnunist Party. 

Maurice Cook Avas both a functionary and a member of the Midtown 
Club of the Communist Part3\ 

Elinor LafFery Cook was a member of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party. 

Elizabeth Clark, whose address at the time was 681 East Kirby 
street. Detroit, Mich., was employed with Frigid Food Corp, 

I will have to o;o back and explain that a little bit there. She was 
contacted, according; to James Anderson and Ann Kelly, because she 
was a. worker at the Frigid Food Corp, and they w-ere supposed to have 
had a contract with the AFL union. James Anderson and Ann Kelly, 
according- to their statements, were able to persuade her to organize 
some other of her coworkers in this place and the}' went out on strike 
and broke the union, broke the contract that the AP'I^ had and es- 
tablished instead — I believe it was the United — it was the CIO union 
that had to do with-  

Mr. Tavennek. Was it the UOPW? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. It had to do with food processing. 

Mr, Tavenner. Food, Tobacco and Agricultural Workers? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct; yes. After which they had Elizabeth 
Clark down to a. meeting, a general membership meeting of the Mid- 
town Club 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. The Food. Tobacco and Agricul- 
tural Workers Union has been expelled from the CIO, has it not, as 
a Communist dominated organization^ 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, but you must remember that this information 
contained here is 5 years old. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr, O'Hair. And at that time, it had not as yet been expelled. 

She was an invited guest to a closed membership meeting of the Mid- 
town Communist Party Club. At that time, it was explained to us 
members that she was now a member of the Communist Party, and 
not only that, had succeed in recruiting six or seven additional peo- 
ple who w^ere her coworkers at the Frigid Foods Corp, 

Sis Cunningham — C-u-n-n-i-n-g-h-a-m — she not only was an em- 
ployee of the district office, district T. Connnunist Party of the State of 
Michigan, but was also a member of the INIidlown Communist Club. 

Mr. and Mrs. Dillard — D-i-1-l-a-r-d — were membei-s of the Mid- 
towiT Communist Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the first name of either of them ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. Their membership cards — by that I mean 
the club cards on them — only contained "Mr. and INIrs. Dillard."' 
They came as a twosome to the meetings when they did attend, and 
there was no great stress, j'ou understand, inside of the pfirty organ- 
ization on names. It was a little out of order to push anybod}' for 
any more of a name than they cared to give. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Did you learn their addresses? 

Mr. O'Hair. Whatever addresses that I have had on these peo- 
ple before now has been turned over to the Bureau — the FBI rather. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you know anything of their employment ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2741 

Mr. O'Hair. No. sir. You understand that in party meetings, 
while there is a certain amount of fraternization, only unless you 
know an individual real well and amount to almost a personal sit- 
uation between you and the subject, you just don't crowd them for fur- 
ther information. . . 

Mr. Jackson. Of course, I think the object of this interrogation and 
the length of it on this particular point, is to fasten down as defi- 
nitely as posible these identifications so that unwilling and probably 
anti-Communist Dillards will not become involved. 
Mr. O'Hair. That is right. I appreciate that. 

Walter Dunn 

Mr. Tavenner. I might say, Mr. Chairman, that the person ]ust 
identified has been subpenaed as a witness and will testify, and has 
cooperated fully with the committee. 

Mr. O'Hair. Ann Delancey, D-e-1-a-n-c-e-y : Was a member of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party, and I believe at the time I 
]aiew her, she resided at the Priscilla Home. That would be either up. 
on Cass or Second Street, 

Tom Dombrowski — D-o-m-b-r-o-w-s-k-i — Tom Dombrowski I met 
several times at State conventions of district 7 of the Communist 
Party, State of Michigan, and also had seen him upon several occasions 
at the district office of district No. 7, Communist Party, State of Mich- 
igan. 

Alice Ferris — F-e-r-r-i-s 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. The person identified there, Mr. 
Dombrowski, has been cited in a report of the committee as the editor 
of Glos Ludowy. 

Mr. O'Hair. Alice Ferris ran the Communist Party book store, both 
when it was across the street fiom 2419 Grand River, and later on 
when it was transferred and moved down to the ninth floor of the 
Lawyers' Building. At one time she was also a member of the Mid- 
tow^n Club of the Communist Party, U. S. A. 

Timothy Shay : He was a member, too, of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party, whose membership in the Communist Party went 
back over a period of 25 years. He came into the Communist Party 
from tlie IWW, the International Workers of the World, and he re- 
lated to me at one time that Alice Ferris acted as a mail drop for dis- 
trict 7 of the Communist Party, State of Michigan, and also that she 
had made several trips' to New York City, N. Y., as a courier. Inci- 
dentally, Tim Shay sometimes used the name of Potter — P-o-t-t-e-r —  
and his address at the time was apartment No. 23, Earle Apartments 
on Cass Street. 

Mr. Potter. If the counsel will yield. I assume he used the name 
of "Tim" Potter? 

Mr. O'Haie. That is correct. As far as I can remember, he was con- 
valescing and he had no employment that I knew of. He was being 
treated for a heart condition and was under a doctor's care. Also, 
according to statements made to me by Tim Shay, his relationship 
toward the end of my stay here in Detroit, with the Communist Party 
became a little strained. It seemed that an argument developed be- 
tween Tim Shay and several members, functionaries of district 7 of 
the Communist Party, U. S. A., State of Michigan. Shay contended 
that the Jewish people were taking over the top-level jobs in the na- 
tional and State organizations, and at a local level, too. He felt that 



2742 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

the Jewish people were attempting to use the Communist Party as a 
political i)arty for their own interests, and he had gone to the district 
and had quite an argument with Helen Allison. She threatened to 
liave liim cited for anti-Semitism and expelled from the party. 

Of course, Shay backed down and from then on, he was dissatisfied, 
and there was quite an amount of rumbling. 

Milton Freeman, F-r-e-e-m-a-n, was a member of the Midtown Clnb 
of the Communist Party, and his address at that time was 534 Illinois 
Street, Detroit, Mich. 

Milton Freeman, F-r-e-e-m-a-n, was a member of the Midtown Club 
of the Communist Party, was the husband of Sis Cunningham, and 
during his stay here in Detroit was employed by the Detroit Times as 
a reporter. 

Carmelia Fordham was press director of the East Side Council of 
district 7, Communist Party, State of Michigan. 

Harry Glassgold was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party, district 7, and also 

Mr. Tavenner. You have already identified him as the person who 
recruited you into the party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. Is there any need to give you any 
moi'e information ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, unless you have in mind some particular 
activity of his which would throw some light on the methods by which 
the Communist Party operated in this area. 

Mr. O'Hair. The only additional item that I can add to that was 
his organizational work in the colored neighborhoods of Detroit. He 
seemed quite concerned in promoting front organizations in the colored 
neighborhoods of Detroit, and I am very happy to say that in most 
cases they were not successful. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you referring to political activities, or activities 
of a purely front character ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Social in nature. They were the front organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think the committee would be interested in hear- 
ing more in detail about that, if you recall, Mr. O'Hair. 

Mr. O'Hair. I have forgotten now, the names of the organizations. 
There were two in number, I do believe. It would be futile to attempt 
to take up the committee's time to go back, except that he was also 
a part-time student at Wayne University, where he attempted to create 
a student organization. I believe he was active in the A YD — that 
would be the American Youth for Democracy — when it was on the 
campus there. 

Henderson Gates, G-a-t-e-s — he was a member of the Midtown Club 
of the Communist Party. 

Dewey Garrett, I believe I mentioned him previously. 

Betty Gannett, G-a-n-n-e-t-t, came out here from New York City 
and gave the executive committees of the various local Communist 
organizations pep talks on organizatonal procedure; in other words, 
recruiting and building up the organization. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Wasn't she known as a top functionary in the Com- 
munist Party of the United States? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. And is now under indictment in California ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I wouldn't know about that. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Under the Smith Act. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2743 

You may proceed. 

Mr. O'Hair. Flo Goodman and her husband, Calvin Goodman — 
they were members of the Midtown Club of the Communist Party of 
State of Michigan. 

Willie Gale, G-a-l-e, was a member of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party of the State of Michigan, and his home address was 
4662 Brush Street. 

Edna Glassgold, I believe I mentioned previously. 

John Issaccs, I mentioned previously. 

Betty Ireland, I-r-e-1-a-n-d — I believe she was employed as a stenog- 
rapher, and she too was a member of the Midtown Club, district 7, 
Communist Party, State of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with her husband, Max 
Ireland ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. Frank Iglesias, I mentioned previously. 

Jean Johnson was a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party, district 7. 

Mrs. Hattie Johnson, was a member of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party. 

James Keller, was a member of the IMidtown Club of the Communist 
Party. I believe now that James Keller is out in Chicago and he is 
organizational secretary for a district of the Communist Party out 
there. 

Leroy Krawf ord, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Ann Kelly has been mentioned previously. 

Katie Lee worked for the district office of district 7 of the Com- 
munist Party of the State of Michigan, and was a paid employee. 

John Lymber, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party, district 7, State of Michigan. 

Bill Lifsee, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party of the State of Michigan. 

Katherine Lynch, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party of the State of Michigan, and was later transferred to 
a professional group. At the time that she was a member of the Mid- 
town Chib, I believe she was an employee of the Free Press. 

Felix Miller, operated I believe — he was a member of the Midtown 
Club of the Communist Party of the State of Michigan. 

Matilda Maxwell, was mentioned previously. 

Dr. J. Masee, 5205 Hastings Street, Detroit, was a member of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party, district 7. 

Dave Miller, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party, State of Michigan. 

Mabel Mitchell, has been mentioned previously. 

Arthur McPhaul, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us any further information about his 
activities in the party? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, other than the fact, I believe, that he was employed 
at the Ford local and that I think he was probably a member of the 
trade-union committee for a while there, of the Midtown Club. 

Sam McGhee, 3491 St. Antoine Street, Detroit, was a member of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party. 



2744 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Georfje Newsome, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Willie Newman, 683 East Warren Avenue, Detroit, was a member of 
the Midtown Club of the Comnumist Party. 

Jessie Parrish, 252 East Palmer Street, previously mentioned, was 
a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist Party. 

Louis Perry, 4262 Brush Street 

Mr. Tavenner. How is Louis spelled? 

Mr. O'Hatr. L-o-u-i-s, was a member of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party. 

Mary Keed or Page, has been mentioned previously.. 

Reva Redstone, has been mentioned previously. 

Irving Riskin and his wife "Skippy" Riskin, at the time of my 
Communist Party membership here in Detroit. Irving Riskin, I be- 
lieve, was business agent for the United Office and Professional Office 
Workers Union here locally. I believe he had offices down here on 
Griswold Street. I assume he was a member of the Communist Party, 
district 7. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you know of any other positions or employment 
that he had ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. I understand he came here from Washington, 
D. C, where he had been actively engaged in promoting the United 
Office and Professional Workers Union amongst the Federal em- 
ployees. Apparently it had not worked out, because I understand 
there was some kind of cloud or something and he had come here to 
let it settle down. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell his first name? 

Mr. O'Hair. I-r-v-i-n-g. 

William A. Rodgers, 4102 Brush Street, was a member of the Mid- 
town Club of the Communist Party. 

William A. Record, 4726 St. Antoine Street, was a member of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party . 

I have mentioned "Bob" Reed prior to this, but he was also circula- 
tion manager of the Michigan Herald. 

Jack Sanberg and his wife, Helen Sanberg, were members of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party. 

Mills Sampy, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
aiiunist Party. 

Dave Silverberg, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Louis Sciverras, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
mu7iist Party. 

Esther Seigel, 1997 Elmhurst, was previously mentioned. 

James Simmons,^ was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party, State of Michigan. 

Barbara Springer, was a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Party. Her husband, as I understand it, at the time was an 
employee of the Post Office Department. 

Mr. MoiJLDER. Do you know that to be so, or do you understand 
it? 

Mr. O'Hair. I know it to be so. 



^ See testimony of James Simmons, Communism in the Detroit Area — Part 2. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2745 

Barbara and Arthur Stern, sometimes known as Yeager, were mem- 
bers of the Midtown Club of the Communist Party. 

Matt Savohi attended two state conventions of the Communist 
Party, district 7, State of Michigan, at the same time that I attended. 
He is from Iron Kiver, Mich. 

Mr. Wood. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. O'Hair. S-a-v-o-l-a. 

Mr. Moulder. When you referred to the "Post Office Department,' 
do you mean the local office here ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right : the one right downstairs. 

At the time I had his [Savola's] title, he was the educational com- 
mittee or was on the educational commiteee of the Unity Cooperative 
Co. Tlie address is Eben Junction, Iron Rock, Mich. He was, I un- 
derstand, a representative of the Iron Mill and Smelter Workers 
Union. 

Mr. Potter. What is the name of the city in Michigan ? 

Mr. O'Hair. It would be Iron Rock. Eben Junction, Iron Rock, 
Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of his membership in the Iron Mine, Mill 
and Smelter Workers Union. Do you know whether that union has 
been expelled from the CIO on the ground of subservience to the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you do not know ? You are not answer- 
ing whether it has happened or not ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. I just don't know and never paid any 
attention. 

Mr. Moulder. What was the name of the woman whose husband 
was employed here in the local post office? 

Mr. O'Hair. Barbara Springer. 

Mr. Moulder. Did she attend the Communist meetings? Did you 
see her ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Oh, yes. I was captain of the bond drive. It was 
very popular during the last war, especially under the United Front, 
for members of the Communist Party to buy war bonds. I sold her 
somewhere in the neighborhood of $750 worth of bonds, as I recall it. 

Mr. Moulder. What was the date when she was an active member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That would have been in 1944, 1945, and the last I re- 
call, the early part of 1946. 

Mr. Moulder. What was her husband's name? 

Mr. O'Hair. As far as I know, the last name would have been 
Springer. 

Mr. Moulder. You do not know his first name ? 

«Mr. O'Hair. She referred to him as being an employee of the post 
office. 

Mr. Moulder. She did so refer to him ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you ever see him so employed and know yourself 
that he was so employed ? 

Mr. O'Hair. My contact with the Bureau said that he was employed 
there. 

Mr. Moulder. You, yourself, do not know ? 



2746 COMIMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. O'Hair. Oh, no. Edward Turner, was a member of the Up- 
town Chib of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. Did he attend Communist meetings with her, this 
fellow Springer, at any time^ 

Mr. O'Haik. As I recall, he attended one and that was in her 
company. 

Dave McKelvey White— when I first became a member of the Mid- 
town Club of the Communist Party, branch 1, section 5, McKelvey 
White was State educational director of district 7 of the Communist 
Party, 

Mr. Ta\-enner. My information is that that individual is deceased. 

Mr. O'Hair. Ruth Webb, was a member of the Midtown Club of 
the Communist Party. 

Carl Winter, attended the general membership meetings of the 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party. He was cliairman of district 
7 of the Communist Party of the State of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know smy reason why he was assigned to 
that particular club of the party, when he was head of the entire or- 
ganization of the Communist Party within the State of Michigan? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. All functionaries, unless otherwise decreed, have 
to belong to a local unit. They have to have a home club. 

Mattie Lee Woodson was a member of the Communist Party and I 
believe she was an employee of the District office, when it was down 
here at the ninth floor of the Lawyers' Building. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether that individual's name is 
now Haw^kins ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would have no knowledge of that. 

Ruth Yanover and her husband, Jules Yanover, came to our club 
from ISIilwaukee, Wis. That is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, in the course of your experience in the 
Communist Party, are you prepared to state or can you state what the 
chief activities of the party were in the Detroit area, during the time 
that you were a member ? 

Mr, O'Hair. Certainly. It was domination of the trade-union 
movement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you place that as the principal objective of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes; because you see, with complete domination of the 
trade-union movement, they have a political organization. Not only 
that, the treasuries of these various unions assist them a great deal. 
They can be raided and funds diverted. I feel that they're adhering 
strictly to the principles of Marxist-Leninist theory when they infil- 
trate and attempt to take over the trade-unions, because it is the largest 
single mass unit they can get a hold of. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand you are not in a position to state how 
many branches or cells of the Communist Party were organized within 
the trade-union field. 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir ; I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Detroit ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where you have known and identified members of 
the Communist Party who were in the trade-union field, you have so 
designated them ; have you not ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, I believe so. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2747 

Mr. Tavenner. In addition to the work and activities of the Com- 
munist Party in the trade-union field, what other main activities did 
the Communist Party engage in, in tliis area, if you know ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Political action was one. They created a political 
organization over in the Thirteenth Congressional District. As I 
understand it, they approached a Mr. Charles Diggs, who was a State 
senator or former State senator, and had a small political organization. 
They inquired of Mr. Diggs whether or not he would care to have 
organizational backing and support for a coming campaign. Appar- 
ently he agreed and he went along with them to the extent of calling 
a meeting. 

Naturally, they had to bring in some outsiders and they made an 
enlarged meeting of it. They met that time several times and then 
at one of the meetings, toward the end, they decided on a resolution. 
After they got the resolution, they got a hold of the floor, they had a 
slate prepared and they voted Mr. Diggs right out of his own organiza- 
tion. They took that over and set it up and it was known then as the 
Thirteenth Congressional Democratic Club. Its primary interest was 
to the Communist Party, and it was of primary interest to the Mid- 
town Club of the Communist Party. 

You see, people get an idea that maybe that was a small club. That 
took in an area from the river and Second, clear on up to the city 
limits, over to JNIack or Chene street — a terrific population. 

Anyway, to get back to it, they then selected a candidate, now that 
they had a political organization, and this candidate's name was Dan 
Ryan. 

Mr. Tavenner. There are several persons by the name of Dan 
Eyan. Will you see if you can identify this particular Dan Ryan a 
little more definitely? 

Mr. O Hair. Tliis Dan Ryan is no way related to Dan Ryan of the 
city of Detroit Welfare Department. This Dan Ryan came to the 
city of Detroit from some place in Indiana, a little prior to 1944, and 
my understanding of the matter is that he taught in the Workers' 
School around here for some time, and then proceeded to go to work, 
either at Chrysler or Dodge local, where eventually he became a 
shop steward. 

Something happened there because he became a used car salesman 
after that and went without much of a permanent address. Anyway, 
to make a long story short, he was selected as the candidate. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Can you be a little more definite as to the candidacy ? 
Candidate for what? 

Mr. O'Hair. State senator. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when ? 

Mr. O'Hair. State senator for the Thirteenth Congressional Dis- 
trict, and I believe that would be about 1944 — in there. 

Mr. Tavenner, On what ticket ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I imagine the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Jackson. He did not run as a Communist? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Did he run as a Republican ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No; Democratic, I am sure. I recall James Anderson 
and Walter Dunn telling about the time that they had to make the 
speeches for Mr. Ryan, while two other comrades had Mr. Ryan in 



2748 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

tow, walkinj^ him around the block to sober him up, in time to bring 
him back for a ciu'taiii call. Andeison complained that he made so 
many speeches that he felt he should elected. 

Needless to sa}', Kyan was elected. I don't know whether he ever 
finished his term in office or not. I understand he did not. He gave 
it up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what the real motivating purpose 
of the Communist Party was in capturing this political organization, 
which it seems Mr, Charles C. Diggs had built up, and then to use 
it to promote the political interests of Mr. Ryan? What was back 
of it all ? What was the Communist Party seeking to do, if you know ? 

First, do you know whether Mr. Ryan was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No; I have no knowledge as to that, but I imagine 
they were attempting to work out a process whereby they could develop 
a political organization — as I said, at that time they were very desirous 
of winning friends among the colored people of the city of Detroit, 
and a good share of their organizational activity was spent in trying 
to win these people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this political organization which had been 
built up by Charles C. Diggs chiefly among the colored people? 

Mr. O'Hair. I would say so ; yes. The purpose, as I continued to 
say, was possibly to attempt a blocking up of the — the creating of a 
large political organization among the colored people for the support 
of a future campaign that was coming. I believe that was when 
either Fitzgerald or Fi-ankensteen ran for the office of mayor, here 
in the city of Detroit, because I know that the party went out — the 
Communist Party went out of its way to tell the colored people that 
capitalism was to blame for whatever predicament some of them found 
themselves in, and that under socialism, there would be building proj- 
ects and community dwelling and things of that nature, and that 
that area would be cleaned up. 

However, at the polls, the vast majority of the good people of that 
section were not deceived in any way whatsoever and retained their 
American individuality and repudiated the Communist Party efforts 
to create a political machine in that area, by voting the incumbent 
back into office, as I recall. 

Mr. Potter, During what period of time did this take place? 

Mv. O'Hair. This would take place 1944 to 1946. 

Mr. Potter. I assume the Democratic Club is a different organiza- 
tion than the Democratic Committee? 

Mr. CHair. Yes. It changed its name shortly after the Dan 
Rj'an fiasco and was then known as the Thirteenth Congressional 
Political Club. 

Mr, Jackson, He was elected ? 

]\Ir, O'Hair, Yes ; but not through any effort of Dan Ryan, 

Mr. Jackson. What I mean is that the ultimate objective had been 
served. 

Mr, O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson, By taking over. 

Mr. O'Hair, That is right. 

INIr, Jackson. I assume that Mr. Ryan could never, in a thousand 
years, be elected as a Communist candidate? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. 



COIVIMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2749 

Mr. Jacksox. It was only possible by taking over an existing^ 
organization and using that for the purpose of electing Mr. Ryan ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Which is a typical operational tactic of the party? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you advise the committee as to just what the 
general purpose was in the Communist Party, in endeavoring to ac- 
quire political organizations or build up political organizations? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, I think I can. I comes back to me now. 

We had a Senator here from this State by the name of Vandenberg 
and the Communist Party was breaking every bone in that organiza- 
tional body to upset Mr. Vandenberg, and they did not do it. 

As I say, a lot of it is hazy now because of the passage of time and 
the fact that I have not kept up on things, but I do recall that part 
of the effort was not only to make a political monopoly out of the 
trade-union movement here in the State of Michigan, but also to 
create these community activities in the form of these political asso- 
ciations, these political clubs, and that was to beat the bricks for a 
candidate that they had to put to run against Mr. Vandenberg. 

Mr. Tavenker. You have stated a moment ago that the Commu- 
nists were not successful, in your judgment, in deceiving the rank and 
file of the Negro voters. Have you any evidence or any incident 
upon which you base that statement? 

Mr. O'Hair. Well, knowing how hard they worked in this one cam- 
paign, this one mayoralty campaign, and the fact that the favorite can- 
didate lost by some margin and their statements of disappointment at 
the relatively small number of Negro votes for their candidate 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, you have mentioned several times dur- 
ing the course of your testimony that individuals were active in the 
PAC of the Communist Party as distinguished from the PAC of 
the CIO. 

Mr. O'Hair. They paralleled the PAC-UAW. They had a PAC 
of their own and the purposes, as near as I know it, was to — after all, 
I mean they had their factory branches, they had their front organi- 
zations, and it gave it a sense of being an implement. The fact that — 
as for example, maybe I can best explain it this way : 

During one of these campaigns in Detroit, Walter Dunn had a sec- 
retary's job at the PAC-UAW and they had set up for him a fellow 
by the name of Tom Anderson, who was to act as courier between 
Walter Dunn of the PAC, the secretary, to the delegate of the PAC 
and the district No. 7, Communist Party office. At the same time, 
Dunn was making contacts with the Thirteenth Congressional Dis- 
trict Political or Democratic Club. 

James Anderson, in turn, would discuss the issues with Dunn and 
come back over to the Midtown Club and give us the dope. In other 
words, to build up the issue and then we would go out in the neigh- 
borhood and work it out. We were forming a grass roots organiza- 
tion, a militant grass roots organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, can we have a 2 or 3 minute inter- 
mission ? 

Mr. AVooD. I take it we will adjourn at 5. 
Mr. Tavenner. May we finish with the witness ? 
Mr. Wood. We will take a recess for 10 minutes. 
(A short recess was taken.) 



2750 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

ISfr. Wood. Let us have order, please. 

Counsel, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. O'Hair, in referring to the building up of the political organiza- 
tion by the Communist Party, I believe you called it the Thirteenth 
Congressional District. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the fact that the name of it was 
changed later. ^Vhat was the name to which it was changed? 

Mr. O'Hair. It was changed from the Thirteenth Congressional 
Democratic Club to the Thirteenth Congressional Political Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the reason for that; do you know? 

Mr. O'Hair, They were not actually a Democratic club. They 
merely adopted that label to give them local color and the idea of a 
legitimate political organization. 

What I mean to say is to create in the minds of the people in that 
area, that they were a legitimate political organization. After that, 
I think, as I recall discussions on the matter, they would have liked 
to have built up a political organization such as Marcantonio had in 
New York City, where they could form a coalition with any one group 
to elect an individual. Naturally, I mean, they wouldn't need then to 
associate or to assume that they were representing any political party. 

]\Ir. Potter. May I ask a question along that line ? Did the members 
of the Communist Party act as a fraction within this organization, 
or did it become or was it a large group and they acted as individual 
members ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No ; they acted as a fraction within this organization, 
and at the same time, I mean, let's put it this way : As a steering com- 
mittee would operate and where they needed impetuous support or- 
ganizationally and parliamentarily speaking, to cross certain issues, 
then they would pack the floor and control it that way. 

Mr. Potter. I assume from that, that the strategy was laid out. prior 
to the meeting by the members of the Communist Party, and working 
in unison, they were able to, or at least they endeavored to, swing the 
mass organization to carry out their recommendations and their pro- 
grams ; is that true ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is ti-ue. That was the purpose of Walter Dunn 
and James Anderson. Anderson, in turn, was, as I described before, 
the one that would come to the executive committee meeting of our 
Midtown Club of the Communist Party, and we would discuss it, the 
issue or whatever program was desired, and then we would work out 
the details so that the Thirteenth Congressional Democratic Club 
could endorse it or bring it to pass. 

Mr. Potter. I was interested also in your statement that the mem- 
bers of the Communist Party were very anxious to defeat our former 
Senator Vandenberg. What were the reasons that they gave for 
wanting his defeat ? 

Mr, O'Hair. I think it was fairly obvious. As I recall, Senator 
Vandenberg opposed certain measures regarding Russia. For a while, 
of course — I am going back now surmising — Senator Vandenberg 
represented to the Communist Party an individual who had a pretty 
astute understanding of the international situation. They felt that 
Senator Vandenberg was a detriment, that he was a light in the 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2751 

wilderness, and if they conld put that light out they would be 
better off. 

Mr. Potter. They felt that Senator Vandenberg's presence meant 
that they would not be able to appease the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Inquiring further along the line that Mr. Potter 
asked : You stated a moment ago when you referred to the Thirteenth 
Congressional Democratic Club, you referred to a false name assumed 
by the Communists, is that correct, in that district? 
'Mr. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. Briefly, I want to ask more about yourself. Where 
do vou reside now ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Johnson City, N. Y. 

Mr. Moulder. What is your employment there? 

Mr. O'Hair. I am a licensed private investigator of the State of 
New York. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you married? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir ; I am a bachelor. 

Mr. Moulder. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. O'Hair, membership being an important matter 
for discussion in every organization, what was your best understanding 
of the total membership of the Communist Party in the Detroit area ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Approximately 1,500 members. 

Mr. Jackson. Approximately 1,500 members, active members? 

]\Ir. O'Hair. They figured 1,000 or a little better for Detroit proper, 
and 400 or so for the outlying parts of Wayne County. 

Mr. Jackson. I think that you said there were IT branches. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. In the eastern council ? 

]\Ir. O'Hair. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. And you gave as an average, using your own branch 
as an example, 175 members and you said that was more or less char- 
acteristic, you believed ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. That would place the total somewhat above the 
figure of 1,700, would it not, for the entire Detroit area ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes, according to that way ; yes, it woijld. 

Mr. Jackson. That would give a figure in the eastern council itself, 
of well in excess of that amount, without taking into consideration the 
other branches of which you have no knowledge ? 

Mr, O'Hair. That is right. But as I said at that time, I was merely 
surmising that our membership ran around 175. It was merely a sup- 
position and I believe it was so understood at that time ; that it was a 
supposition regarding the membership of the other branches and clubs. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; my question was predicated on that assump- 
tion. Was Detroit generally considered in the branch meetings and 
in the discussions with relation to industry in general, as being a very- 
important focal point ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. 

INIr. JAcKSOx. That is, for Communist activity in the United States ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes ; that is correct. 



2752 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA "" 

Mr. Jackson. During the meetings of your branch, was the flag of 
the United States ever displayed? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, sir. At one meeting that I recall, it was displayed 
and that was when Tim Buck came over from Canada to a celebration 
that was prepared here for him by the Communist Party of district 
No. 7 of the State of Michigan. That was held at St. Andrew's Hall, 
I believe, in downtown Detroit. There, they displayed the American 
flag and Russian flag and Canadian flag. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you remember in what precedence the flags were 
displayed ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No, only the fact of welcoming Tim Buck to this coun- 
try for his appearance here. 

Mr. Jackson. Your t&stimony in connection with the press and Daily 
Worker committee was not in any sense an activity in which you had 
contact with the press as such ? 
Mr. O'Hair. Oh, no. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. It simply had to do with the distribution and circula- 
tion of the Daily Worker? 
Mr. O'Hair. Tliat is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any idea as to the over-all circulation of 
the Daily Worker in Detroit at that time ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. As I recall, I think it was 1946, and I am hazard- 
ing a guess on the year, we were informed by the district office that if 
we were able to raise a certain number of thousands of dollars, that 
we could set up our own newspaper here. We raised the money in 
the given length of time. I think it was well in excess of $10,000 or so 
that we had to have as a guaranty before they would grant us permis- 
sion to publish our own paper. That paper is now known as the Michi- 
gan Herald, and is better known yet as the Michigan Daily Worker. 

It was authorized by the national organization of the Communist 
Party. It wasn't something that the local boys set up without ap- 
proval, and it is, as I said before, miraculous how the finances were 
raised. 

Mr. Jackson. During the course of hearings in Washington into 
the nature and extent of communism and Communist infiltration into 
the Bethlehem Steel Corp. at Sparrows Point, it was disclosed in the 
testimony that individuals in the Washington area, which I believe 
is district 4, were instructed to leave their employment in Washing- 
ton and seek to obtain employment in the Bethlehem Steel plant. 

Do you have any knowledge of any such directive issued to an 
individual to seek employment in a specific place ? 

Mr. O'Hair. Twice I was requested — once by Arthur Yeager or 
Stern — to take a job with Timken Gear & Axle down here at the west 
end of Detroit, and once or twice after that by Harry Glassgold, to 
accept a position that could be procured for me in a Detroit industry. 
I asked Harry Glassgold, I said, "Harry, what's the purpose? I'm 
happy where I am." "Well," he said, "you're not enough service 
to the party where you are." 

Then he got real confidential and said, "Of course, you know if you 
take this assignment," he said, "then you can keep me posted on what 
goes on." I merely quote that to show that there is an ulterior motive 
and they can direct individuals to certain employment, where they 
can do it, or to certain types of employment to accomplish whatever 
objective they have in mind ; they will do it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2753 

Mr. Jackson. Do you recall, during the period of time you were a 
member of the East Side council or representing your branch in the 
East Side council, the nature of any directives which you took back? 
You said that these delegates or representatives met together in the 
East Side council and were given directives to take back to their own 
branches. 

Mr. O'Hair. No. The directives would come down from the dis- 
trict. We would discuss, at these East Side council meetings, we 
would discuss these issues and directives, and then what we would 
return to our local unit with was for our participation as a local unit 
in whatever the over-all strategy was. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you have any knowledge during your period of 
membership in the Communist Party of the existence in Detroit of a 
le^al branch ? 

Mr. O'Hair. There was in existence a professional group of the 
Communist Party. As I mentioned previously, Katherine Lynch, 
who had been a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist 
Party, was transferred out into a professional branch. There were 
several local lawyers who, at the time, were named to me by Glass- 
gold and by Stern and several other people as being very friendly to 
the Communist Party. They mentioned their names, but in the pas- 
sage of time it has grown dim. 

Mr. Jackson. The occupation of the individual you named as hav- 
ing been transferred out, was that of a lawyer ? 

Mr. O'Hair. This particular case was a newspaper employee, em- 
ployed by the Detroit Free Press as a reporter, as I recall. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you hear any conversation, at any time, with 
respect to the existence of a newspaper branch ? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. 

Mr. Jackson, A teaching branch? 

Mr. O'Hair. No. That might have come later. The fact that 
Elinor Laffery Cook was a member in and a functionary of a neigh- 
borhood organization, would indicate to me that at that time there was 
no such branch as a teachers' branch. 

However, as I say, 5 years have gone by. It is just possible, and 
between you and me, it sounds very plausible, understanding them as 
I do. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 

I would like to suo^gest that Mr. O'Hair's subpena be extended to 
cover his arrival in his own home. 

Mr. Wood. ]Mr. Potter, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Potter. One or two, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. O'Hair, as a former member of the Communist Party, what is 
the feeling of the members of the Communist Party about being ex- 
posed as Communists? 

Mr. O'Hair. They hate it. I believe they fear that more than any- 
thing else, whetlier it is factual exposure or definite exposure. 

Mr. Potter. From the experience that you have had, would the 
attacks and the hysteria that have been brought upon the committee 
and other people interested in exposing Communists by certain 
groups — would that indicate to you that there w'as a great deal of 
fright in their hearts? 

Mr. O'Hair. It would indicate to me that you can judge the degree 
which you are worrying them, by the yelling that they put up. 



2754 coM]vnjNiSM in the Detroit area 

Mr. Potter. Mr. O'PTair, I have here a photostat of a manual en- 
titled, "The Conniiunist Party ^Manual on ()rganization."' Have you 
seen such a manual before? 

Mr, O'Hair. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Po'JTER. Can you briefly tell the committee how the Communist 
Party, how tlie members of the Communist Party, are instructed to 
use this manual? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is a manual of organization. That tends to illus- 
trate to them their behavior in their private lives and it also sets forth 
the behavior they should follow in their relations to the Communist 
Party. It also sets forth statements in there, as I recall, regarding 
organizational punishment for anybody who would furnish informa- 
tion, even to the point of telling their good comrades' children to 
stand around in front of the house of a suspected informant and 
shout "Spy." It also goes on to make no bones about the fact that 
the Conununist Party is predicated to overthrow the Government by 
force and violence. It makes no bones about it. It is clearly pre- 
sented in that book that the Coinnuniist Party advocates the over- 
throw^ of the existing Government of the United States by force and 
violence. 

The whole book, in my opinion, seems to be dedicated toward that 
purpose. 

Mr. Potter. Is it then true that the members of the Communist 
Party use this as their manual, such as a Boy Scout uses his Boy 
Scout handbook ? Is it that tvpe of manual ? 

Mr. O'Hair. That is true. ' 

Mr. Potter. I wnsh to read a paragraph from this manual on the 
role and aim of the Communist Party, to see if, from your experience, 
that role and aim was carried out by the party, and if that was one of 
their objectives. I quote: 

As a leader and organizer of the proletariat, the Communist Party of the 
United States of America leads the working class in the fight for the revolutionary 
overthrow of capitalism, for the establishment of the dictatorship of the prole- 
tariat, for the establishment of a Socialist soviet republic in the United States, 
for the complete abolition of classes, for the establishment of socialism, the 
first stage of the classless Communist society. 

Is that the aim and role of the Communist Party that they have 
enunciated here? Is that a true objective of the Communists as j'ou 
have experienced it ? 

Mr. O'Hair. I think there was only one time in their career as an 
organization that they have backed away from that, and that was 
under Earl Browder's revisionist period which lasted a couple of 
months. 

Mr. Potter. There has also been a great deal of discussion about 
the freedom that the members have in the Communist Party. They use 
that as a means in their propaganda. 

I note in this little manual a paragraph that pertains to party dis- 
cussion and freedom to criticize. I would like to read just one para- 
graph, and I quote : 

It is clear, however, that basic principles and decisions, such as for example, 
the priigram of the Communist International cannot be questioned in the party. 
We cannot imagine a discussion for example, questioning the correctness of the 
leading role of the proletariat in the revolution or the necessity for the prole- 
tariat dictatorship. We do not question the theory of the necessity for the 
forceful overthrow of capitalism. We do not question the correctness of the 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2755 

revolutionary theory of the class struggle laid down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, 
and Stalin. We do not question the counterrevolutionary nature of Trotzkyism. 

It seems to me that you are pretty limited in the Commimist Party 
as to what you may discuss. 

Mr. OTIair. That is true. It is all cut aud dried. As I probably 
didn't make myself too clear, the purpose of the executive committee 
is to meet and to outline the discussion program pertaining to any 
issue, and they control it. It is strictly from the Chair. If anybody 
gets too far one side, they rap him out of order. There is very little 
democracy in the Communist Party. 

Mr. PoT-rER. I wish to thank you, Mr. O'Hair, for testifying here. 

INIr. Wood. Are there any further questions ^ 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; you have mentioned John Anderson. There 
may be a number of John Andersons in the city of Detroit. I want to 
be certain you have given us all the identifying information relating 
to him that you can. 

jNIr. O'Hair. He was a trade-unionist here locally, I believe in the 
UAW. 

j\Ir. Ta\t5NNER. Do you know^ whether he was employed in 
Plymouth ? 

Mr. O'Hair. All I can say to that is, it is possible. I recall seeing 
him one time when Pat Tooliey was there. I was attending a workers' 
school held at 2-1:10 Grand Kiver, and I was coming between classes 
down the hallway, when Pat Toohey, John Anderson, and I believe, 
Nat Ganley went by and a fellow by the name of William or Walter 
McKie passed me on their way into another room. 

As I recall, I turned to a fellow walking with me and I said, "What 
kind of delegation is that?" And without thinking, he said, ''That's 
the trade-union committee." 

Mr. Tavenner. AVas he white ? 

Mr. O'Hair. He was white. He is of Scotch descent, as I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the statement you have just made, you have 
referred to several other persons whose names have not been mentioned 
here. 

Mr. O'Hair. Yes. Walter McKie was associated with Ford local. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he known to you to be a member of the Commu- 
nist Party or not? 

]\lr. O'Hair. I wouldn't say that. I have just seen him associating. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to Pat Toohey. 

Mr. O'Hair. Pat Toohey was the man that Carl Winter replaced 
here as chairman of District No. 7 of the Communist Party. 

Mr. TA^^2NNER. That is all I have. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. I am going to ask Mr. O'Hair to remain within call of 
the committee tomorrow and you will continue to be under subpena 
of the committee until you reach home. I would appreciate it if you 
would be available here, in case we want to recall you for further 
questions. 

The hour is now 20 minutes past 5 and we will suspend until 10 a. m., 
tomorrow morning. The committee stands recessed. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 20 p. m., the committee recessed to reconvene at 
10 a. m., Tuesday, February 26, 1952.) 



97097— 52— pt. 1- 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA-PART 1 



tuesday, february 26, 1952 

United States House of Eepresentatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ox Un-American Activities, 

Detroit^ Mich. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to call at 10 a. m. in room 740, Federal Building, in Detroit, 
Mich., Hon. John S. AVood (chairman) , presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood, Mor- 
gan M. Moulder, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell and Jackson Jones, 
investigators; and John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. Counsel are you ready- 
to plead ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to call Mr. Joseph Bernstein. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that of the subcommitee there are 
present Messrs. Moulder, Jackson, Potter, and Wood. 

Are you Mr. Bernstein ? 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH BERNSTEIN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, BERNARD PROBE 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will you please stand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Bernstein ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Probe. My name is Bernard Probe. 

Mr. Wood. What is your business address ? 

Mr. Probe. National Bank Building, Detroit. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Bernstein, at any time during the course of your 
testimony if you desire to do so, you are at liberty to confer with your 
counsel. Counsel has the privilege of giving you such advice and 
information as he sees fit to give you from time to time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name please, sir ? 

2757 



2758 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

]\Ir. Bernstein. Mr. Tavenner, before I make any answers to the 
questions, I have a statement here tliat I ■would like to read. 

Mr. Wood. You may file it with the clerk. Just file 3'our statement 
there with the clerk. 

Mr. Bkkxsteix. I would rather read it orally if it is possible. 

Mr. Wood. That isn't permitted by the committee. 

Mr. Tavexni:r. Will you state your name, please ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Joseph Bernstein. 

Mr. Tavenner. W^hen and where were you born ? 

Mr. Berns'tein. Buffalo, N. Y., 1910. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, please, what your 
educational training has been ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Grade school, high school, and art school. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present employment ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Newspaper artist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, what your 
record of employment has been in your profession ? 
. Mv. Bernstein. Well, just a newspaper artist. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed in that capacity ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Twenty-three years. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Will you state what your employment has been — 
has it been on a contractual basis with different publications? 

Mr. Bernstein. No; with the Detroit News. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it with any other periodicals or papers besides 
the Detroit News ? 

Mr. Berns'^tein. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment begin with the Detroit 
News? 

Mv. Bernstein. Twenty-three years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Eecently what has been the nature of 3'our work 
with the Detroit News ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Retouching, lay-out, lettering — about general news- 
paper editorial work. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the preparation of cartoons or the drawing 
of cartoons? 

Mr. Bernstein. Well, the general newspaper work it involves. 

Mv. Tavenner. Have you drawn cartoons for publication ? 

Mr, Bernstein. For the Detroit News ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. And for other papers too ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I have made other drawings, if that is what you 
mean, outside of the News a little — little jobs if that is what you are 
referring to. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. With what papers have those little jobs been done? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege of the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You refuse to tell the committee for whom you have 
worked in the drawing of cartoons; is that what I understand? 

Mv. Bernstein. Yes, I have that privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

JNIr. Tavenner. You are taking the position that to divulge the 
name of the ]:)apers for wliich you worked would tend to incriminate 
you and it is because of the fifth amendment that you refuse to answer ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2759 

Mr. Bernstein. That is correct. 

Mr. TivvENNER. Have you always used your own name in the sub- 
mission of cartoons for publication or have you used other names? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege of "the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name of Gordon ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege of the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic reproduction of a page or 
rather a cartoon from the "Michigan Worker of October 3, 1948. You 
will note that the cartoon deals with the relative strength of the Pro- 
gressive Party in the State of Michigan. This cartoon is signed by the 
name of the artist— "Gordon". Will you examine the cartoon and 
state whether or not you drew it? 

Mr. Bernstein. I 'invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the cartoon in evidence and ask that 
it be marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, it will be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 1," 
and received in evidence.) 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Have you used the name of Gordon at any time ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer the question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph and ask you if you can 
identify the name or the person who is tJie subject of that photograph? 

Mr. Bernstein. You are asking me to identify 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you if you can identify the person who 
is the subject of that photograph. 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege and refuse to answer the 
question under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Richard F. O'Hair? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege and refuse to answer the 
question under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\'^nner. Is that a photograph of JSIr. O'Hair? 

Mr. Bernstein. I have stated my refusal before in refusing the 
question mider the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photograph in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 2." 

(The document referred to was marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 2" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bernstein, Mr. O'Hair testified before this 
committee yesterday and were you present during the course of his 
testimony ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear his testimony in which he identified 
you as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking if you merely heard his testimony. 

Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. In testifying before the committee Mr. O'Hair re- 
lated that as membership director of the Communist Party for the 
State of Michigan, you were the individual to whom the membership 



2760 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

directors of the Communist groups or branches throughout the State 
of Michigan reported their membership strength and made returns 
of the dues collected. Was that testimony or that statement true? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve as membership director of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I show you a photograph of Mrs. Bereniece "Toby" 
Baldwin and ask you if you can identify it as a picture of her? 

Mr. Bernstein. Are you asking me to identify her ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer a photograph in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Wood. Let it be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 3"' 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you acquainted with Mrs. Bereniece "Toby*' 
Baldwin ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet with Mrs. Baldwin as a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I again invoke my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Elmer Johnson ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I again invoke my privilege and refuse to answer 
the question under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bernstein, the committee through its investi- 
gation has received evidence of information that you had been a 
member of the executive committee of section 5, district i, of the Com- 
munist Party of the United States ; is that true? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Which provision of the fifth amendment are you 
applying in your refusal to answer ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The provision of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bernstein, at the time that the committee had 
information that you were a member of the executive committee of 
section 5 of the Communist Party of the United States, through cer- 
tain of its front organizations, primarily the American League for 
Peace and Democracy, it was referring to the United States as an 
imperialistic, warmongering Nation. This was during the period of 
time when Stalinist Russia and Hitler Germany were allies. Were 
you a member of the Communist Party during the days of the Hitler- 
Stalin pact ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Well, during the days of the Hitler-Stalin pact, did 
you take any course of action supporting Hitlerite Germany ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2761 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege and refuse to answer the 
question under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Is it not a fact that during those days, that is, during 
the days of the Hitler-Stalin pact, you were advocating and support- 
ing f acism ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the end of the Stalin-Hitler pact, that is, upon 
the attack by Germany upon Russia, did you cease to become a sup- 
porter of f ascim ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege of the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you not know, Mr. Bernstein, that the first Com- 
munist display against Hitler was a rally sponsored by the United 
Workers' Organization held at the Finnish summer workers' camp in 
the vicinity of Walled Lake Village, Mich.? Were you acquainted 
with that fact? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the rally at the Finnish summer 
workers' camp ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this camp known to have been owned by the 
Finnish section of the International Workers' Order? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege again in refusing to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Wliat is the International Workers' Order — will you 
explain it ? 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Mr. Chairman, the International Workers' Order 
has been cited by the Attorney General as a Communist organization 
and I believe it has been cited by various other governmental agencies. 
On page 163 of the Guide to Subversive Organizations and Publica- 
tions issued by our committee there is a full description of the branches 
of the International Workers' Order which have been cited as being 
communistic. There have been proceedings in various States regard- 
ing the insurance feature of the order. 

Mr. Bernstein, did you attend the State convention of the Commu- 
nist Party held on January 23-24, 1948, at which Carl Winter, chair- 
man of the Communist Party of Michigan, complained about the 
slowness by which the Communist Party was obtained its signatures? 

Mr. Bernstein. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. The Michigan State convention of the Communist 
Party held on the dates mentioned, that is January 23-24, 1948, accord- 
ing to the committee's information, was held above the Detroit Work- 
ers' Cooperative Restaurant in Hamtramck. Have you at any time 
attended a meeting of the Communist Party held above the Detroit 
Workers' Cooperative Restaurant ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege again under the fifth amend- 
ment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you on March 18, 1950, attend the closed meet- 
ing of the Communist Party called to celebrate International Women's 
Day? 



2762 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. TA^'E^^NER. Did you attend the 1950 state organizational con- 
ference for tlie State of Michigan of the Communist Party held on 
April 22, 1950? 

Mr. Bernstein. I again invoke my privilege in refusing to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr, Bernstein, I hand you a typewritten state- 
ment, or rather a mimeographed reproduction of a statement which 
purports to contain a list of Communist Party branches or cells with- 
in this area and in fact throughout the entire State. Will you ex- 
amine it please and state whether or not you have ever seen it? 

Mr. Bernstein. What was the question again ? 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I was asking if you have ever seen the report or the 
original of it? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer it in evidence and ask that it be 
marked "Bernstein Exhibit Xo. 4." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Bernstein Exhibit No. 4" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. This report purports to identify the clubs through- 
out the State 

Mr. Wood. What clubs? 

Mr. Tavenner. Clubs of the Communist Party. It says — 

The follnwins list of clubs and figures represent goals and achievements of sec- 
tion as well as clubs, outstate and Detroit. 

Were you acquainted with the quotas assigned to the various clubs 
for membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question ? 

INIr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with section goals taken in 
Detroit and other places throughout the State of Michigan ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I again claim my privilege under the fifth amend- 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read the first section into the testimony : 

Ford — subscriptions, 500; funds, $2,500; recruits, 100. 

Do you know what that means ? 

]Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege and refuse to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing) : 

West side — subscriptions, 350 ; funds, ,$2,500 ; recruits, 75. 
East side — subscriptions, 2.50 ; funds, .$8,500 ; recruits, 112. 
Northwest — subscriptions, .'?00 ; funds, $.S,500 ; recruits, 50. 
Professional — subscriptions, 150 ; funds, .$5,000 ; recruits, 25. 

Do you have any personal knowledge of the professional cells or 
groups within the Communist Party in Detroit? 

Mr. Bernstein. I again claim my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then there is a notation appearing under that, that 
"The figures listed beside the professional section represent proposed 
quotas which have not yet been accepted by that section." 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2763 

I would like also to read into the evidence the names of the branches 
or clubs as shown on this exhibit No. 4. 

Under the headinjr of "Ford" there are the followino;: "Axle, B 
Building, Foundry, Open Hearth, Motor, Plastic, Pressed Steel, Tool 
& Die, Highland Park, Women's Auxiliary, Spring & Upset, and Mis- 
cellaneous," a total of 12. 

Then the clubs or branches on the west side are as follows : "Dear- 
born, Delray, Detrola, Diesel, Eddie Elberts, Italian- American, Mc- 
Graw, Michigan, 157, Packinghouse, (jM, West Side Industrial, Vick- 
ers, Miscellaneous," a total of 14. 

Then as to the east side there are the following clubs or cells : "Bohn, 
Briggs, Dodge, Downtown, First Congressional, Fourteenth Congres- 
sional, Hamtramck, Hamtramck Youth, Midtown, Nat Turner, Oak- 
land, Packard, Plymouth, Polish American, Rubber, 205, 155 
Chrysler and Miscellaneous," a total of 19 cells. 

Then in the section known as Northwest there are the following: 
"Ben Davis, Fenkell, LaBelle, Tom Paine, Southfield, Teamsters, 
Twelfth Street, Wayne, Joe York, Herman Bottcher, and Dave 
White," a total of 11. 

Do you know whether the Wayne cell, the Joe York cell and the 
Herman Bottcher cell were youth organizations within the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Bernstein. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the following listed professional cells appear 
here: "Cultural Theater, Detroit Special 2, Foster, John's Group, 
Medical, Pen & Pencil, Sholem Aleichem, Whitman, Vesey, Ped, and 
Miscellaneous," a total of 11. 

Then appears last the out-of-State clubs or cells of the Communist 
Party as follows : "Ann Arbor Town, Bellaire, Flint, Grand Rapids, 
Haldane, Jackson, Kalamazoo, Lansing, Monroe, Muskegon, New 
Haven, Ralph Neafus, Pontiac, Saginaw, South Haven, Twin City, 
Willow Run, and Miscellaneous," a total of 18. 

And then there is one cell appearing in the Upper Peninsula. 

Mr. Jackson. How many clubs does that make in all? Do you 
have a total ? 

Mr. Tavenner. We have not actually totaled them. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you read the last statement following that? 
It would be well to have the record show that. 

Mr. Tavenner. There appears at the bottom of the statement the 
following : 

These figures represent what had been turned in as of noon on Saturday, 
April 12, 1947, and the goals are for achievement by the May Day meeting on 
May 4. 

Mr. Moulder. 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. The figure 1947 that appears there was placed there 
by the investigative staff after investigation to determine the date. 
I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Moulder, have you any questions ? 

Mr. Moulder. Not at this time. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions at this time. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter ? 



2764 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Bernstein, how old are vou? 

Mr. Bernstein. Foity-one. 

Mr. Potter. I assume that you may or may not have had some previ- 
ous military service. If you were called to serve today in Korea with 
many other young men of this country to combat communism, would 
you comply with the law and serve your country in time of war against 
Communist forces ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I would. 

Mr. Potter. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have one further question, please. Are you now 
a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr, Bernstein. I claim my privilege and refuse to answer the ques- 
tion under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Berns'i-ein. Is it possible to read my statement ? 

Mr. Wood. I suggest that if you desire to do so you may file it 
with the clerk and the witness will be excused from further attendance. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, in answer to the inquiry of the mem- 
ber of the committee, there were 65 cells named in exhibit 4. 

Mr. Potter. That was 1947? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I call Mr. Dave IVIiller. 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID MILLER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

ERNEST GOODMAN 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Miller, will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence that you give this sub- 
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Miller? 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record, giv- 
ing his business address? 

Mr. Goodman. Ernest Goodman, Cadillac Tower, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Miller, you are at liberty to confer with your counsel 
at any time you may desire, and your counsel is at liberty to give you 
such information and advice from time to time as you may seek or he 
may think you are entitled to have. 

Mr. Miller. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir? 

Mr. Miller. David Miller. 

Mr. Tavenner. And where were you born ? 

Mr. Miller. Dundee, Scotland. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Miller. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you naturalized? 

Mr. Miller, In Detroit, 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2765 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. Miller. In 1926. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly 

Mr. Miller. My age you asked for — did you ask my age, when I was 
born? 

Mr. Tavenner. I did and I don't believe you answered it. 

Mr. Miller. Pardon me, I w^as born on the 5th day of February, 
1891. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please outline for the committee your 
occupational background or record? 

Mr. Miller. Since I came to the United States, or from boyhood? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I should say since 1930. 

Mr. Miller. Since 1930 — I w^as employed at that time hj the Ford 
Motor Co. until 1935, then for a short time with Briggs Manufactur- 
ing and then since 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me, I didn't hear you as to what your em- 
ployment was after leaving the Ford Motor Co. 

Mr. Miller. I was a Duco polisher, paint polisher, with the Briggs 
Manufacturing Co. Then I went to work for the Cadillac division of 
General Motors. 

M-r. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. Miller. In 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you have remained there since? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, sir, still employed there. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the reason for your leaving the employ- 
ment of the Ford Motor Co. in 1935 ? 

Mr. Miller. I believe that it was my intense desire to help organize 
a union that brought about my discharge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an intense desire at the same time to 
assist the Communist Party in any particular way? 

Mr. Miller. Well now, sir, I invoke my privilege under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't your discharge arise out of your activities in 
connection wnth the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Miller. Again, sir, I invoke my privilege under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you did not give us the full answer w^hen you 
said a moment ago that your discharge from the Ford Motor Co. 
arose out of your intense desire to establish a union ? 

Mr. Miller. That was in full accordance with my knowledge and 
belief at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, my question to you then, w^as whether or not 
your relationship wnth the Communist Party and your conduct in 
regard to the work of the Communist Party had anything to do with 
your discharge from the Ford Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Miller. That sir, I wouldn't know, because in organizing a 
union you are not particularly interested in color, creed, race, or 
political affiliation. 

When you go to organize a union you organize everybody in the 
shop because they are workers and nobody inquired as to religion or 
political affiliation. 

Mr. Wood. We are not inquiring about anybody else now. We are 
inquiring about yourself. 



2766 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Miller. As far as my knowledge is concerned, that was the 
only objective and purpose that we had at that time, to lay the founda- 
tion for the union in the Ford Motor Co. under the direction of 
A. F. of L. leadership. 

Mr. Tam^nxer. I was not asking you about the activities of other 
people but only yours. To come specifically to the point, Mr. Miller, 
the committee received information to the eifect that your employ- 
ment at the Ford Motor Co. was affected by your own conduct in plac- 
ing Communist literature in new cars which were being sent out over 
the country. Is that true or not ? 

Mr. Miller. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment to 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean to refuse to answer the question because 
to do so may tend to subject you to criminal prosecution if you 
answered it truthfully — is that your position ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tam^.xner. All right, sir, are your now a member of the Com- 
munist Party, Mr. Miller ? 

Mr. Miller. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. TA^^E^^NER. I show you a photograph 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment, Mr. Miller, at the time your service 
with the Ford Motor Co., I believe you said it was terminated in 

Mr. Miller. 1935. 

Mr. Wood. At that time were you a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Miller. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment, sir, 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mr TA^^ENNER. Were you present yesterday, ]\Ir. ISIiller, during the 
testimony of Mr. Ivichard F. O'Hair? 

Mr. Miller. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. You heard his testimony ? 

Mr. Miller. I did. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you hear him identify you as having been a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Miller. I heard him name a Dave Miller, but I have no knowl- 
edge as to who he was referring to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. O'Hair? 

Mr. MiLLFJt. Positively not. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. Were you at any time a member of the midtown 
section of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question as reserving my rights 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Well, when Mr. O'Hair stated that Dave Miller 
was a member of the Communist Party, was he making a truthful 
statement as far as you know? I didn't mean to hurry you, I want 
to give you all the opportunity you need to confer with counsel. 

Mr. Miller. Will you repeat the question, sir? 

]\Ir. Wood. Read the question, Mr. Reporter. 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

]\Ir. Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer the question. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2767 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Were you a member of the district committee of 
the Communist Party of the State of Michigan as long ago as 1927 ? 

Mr, Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you active at any time in a youth congress, 
that is, the Michigan Youth Congress? 

Mr. Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner, Were you acquainted with Mr. William O'Dell 
Nowell? 

Mr, Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer the question. 

Mr, Wood, May I ask a question at this point ? 

Mr, TA^^ENNER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I understand you to say you received your citizenship 
papers as a naturalized citizen of the United States some time in the 
twenties ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Wood. The exact year being 

Mr. Miller. 1926. 

Mr. Wood. 1926? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, 

Mr. Wood. Here in the district court? 

Mr. Miller. In Detroit. 

Mr. Wood. At the time you became naturalized and took the oath 
of allegiance to the American flag and to this country, were you then 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Miller. Well, I refuse to answer that question taking my right 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. I think it is well taken. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Miller, you made reference to your work as an 
organizer to promote the establishment of unions. 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. That is in 1935. 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. MoLUDER. Who was your immediate superior from whom you 
received directions in your work at the time ? 

Mr. Miller. There were two organizers sent here by the central 
office of the A. F. of L. 

Mr, Moulder, I mean locally — who was directing you in your work ? 

Mr. Miller. They came here in the State locally. 

Mr. Moulder. What official position did you hold at that time ? 

Mr. Miller. None. 

Mr. Moulder. Have you since that time held any official position ? 

Mr. Miller. In what union ? 

Mr. Moulder. In any one. 

Mr. Miller. In the UAW-CIO, yes? 

Mr. Moulder. What was that position ? 

Mr, Miller. I have held the office of president of my local union. 

Mr, Moulder. "Wliich one was that ? 

Mr. Miller. The Cadillac Division of General Motors. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you hold any now ? 

Mr. Miller, No, 



2768 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 



Mr. Moulder. How long has it been since 3-011 were active as an 
organizer ? 

Mr. Miller. Since I left office four years ago, 1948, I believe — 
1947 or 1948. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you left the employment of the Ford Motor 
Co., where did you go? Did you remain in Detroit or did you go to 
another place ? 

Mr. Miller. For some time as I stated, I worked for the Briggs 
Manufacturing. Then there was a reduction in force there so I left, 
and my wife and I went to live in New York for some time. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were vou in New York ? 

Mr. Miller. Oh, a feAV months, approximately a few months — I 
can't recall just how long. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your purpose in going to work in New 
York? 

Mr. Miller. My daughter lived there and we went to stay with her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any employment of any char- 
acter while in New York ? 

Mr. Miller. I couldn't find a job. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you engage in any activity for the Communist 
Party while in New York ? 

Mr. Miller. I claim my rights under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Miller, according to a program dated April 2. 
1949, you were chairman of the Michigan State conference of the Civil 
Rights Congress. Who were the officers of the Civil Rights Congress 
at the time, can 3^ou recall ? 

Mr. Miller. I claim my rights under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time when you were president of your local 
which you testified to a moment ago in response to a question by a 
member of the committee, were vou a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and I 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mv. Tavenner. Where Avere you employed at the time that you 
were president of that local? 

Mr. Miller. In Cadillac. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Was there a cell or group of the Communist Party 
organized within that industry at the time to your Imowledge? 

Mr. Miller. I reserve my rights under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further question. 

Mv. Wood. Mv. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. I yield to the gentleman from California. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever associated with the German- Ameri- 
can Bund? 

Mr. Miller. I am a Scotsman, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. That is not an answer to my question. You were 
not? 

Mr. Miller. No, 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever associated with the Ku Klux Klan ? 

Mr. Miller. No, sir. 



COMAIUNISAI IN THE DETROIT AREA 2769 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever associated with the Communist 

Party? 

Mr. Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jacksox. You are familiar with the hostilities going on in 
Korea, are you not ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Jacksox. With which side in that conflict do your sympathies 
lie? 

Mr. Miller. My allegiance lies with the United States most 
emphatically. 

Mr. Jacksox. You would take up arms or do whatever service you 
Avere called upon to render in the event of war with the Soviet Union? 

Mr. Miller. Sir, I made that declaration when I took my citizen- 
ship pa])ers and will live up to it. 

Mr. Jacksox. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner asked you, I believe, about some local 
organizations as to whether or not there was any Communist activity. 
What organizations were those ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. That was as to his. employment, the place of his 
employment — as to whether or not a cell had been organized in that 
industry. 

Mr. Moulder. At the present time? 

Mr. Tavexxer. At the time he was president of his union. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you know whether or not there was a local cell 
in the Communist organization, Mr. Miller? 

Mr. Miller. Again I must reserve my right under the fifth amend- 
ment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Could you explain to the committee how that ques- 
tion would tend to incriuiinate you as to whether or not you know 

Mr. Miller. It is my belief, sir, that I am not called upon to give 
the reasons for any particular answer I may give reserving my right 
under the fifth amendment to refuse to answer. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Are there further questions of counsel ? 

Mr. Taatenxer. You mentioned the fact that at the time you signed 
your application for naturalization you declared your allegiance to 
this country. Did you not at the same time make a statement that 
you were not a member of any organization which had for its purposes 
the overthrow of the United States Government by the use of force or 
violence? 

Mr. Miller. Wlien I signed my application for citizenship papers, 
I did it without reservation of any kind. 

Mr. Wood. You were asked whether or not at the time you made 
application for citizenship you stated that you did not belong to an 
organization that had as its objective the overthrow of the United 
States Government by force or violence. Do you recall Avhether you 
made such a statement as that — such a declaration as that or not? 

INIr. IMiLLER. If there were such statements or declarations in the 
application form, that is so long ago, 1926, I can't recall. I think we 
ought to get a copy of that particular declaration because I under- 
stand it has been changed. I understand the immediate wording has 
been changed from time to time. 



2770 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. So there is no misunderstanding about it, at the 
time you filled your application, had you; been a member of any or- 
ganization which had for its purpose the overthrow of the United 
States Government by the use of force or violence? 

IMr. Miller. Again, sir, I must claim my rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ? 

Mr. Jackson. Are you a member of the Communist Party today ? 

Mr. Miller. I reserve my right under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused 
from further attendance ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I call Mr. John Cherveny. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN CHEEVENY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD NOREIS 

Mr Wood. Will you please stand and be sworn? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence that you give tliis sub- 
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

]Mr. Chervent. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. NoRRis. My name is Plarold Xorris of the Michigan Bar, 963 
Penobscot Building, Detroit. 

Mr. Wood. You are at liberty to confer with your counsel as often as 
you may desire in the course of your testimony and seek such informa- 
tion and advice that you need. Your counsel is at liberty to confer 
with you and give you such information and advice as you may require 
or he may think you stand in need of. 

Mr, Cherveny. I'd like to read a ])repared statement at this time. 

Mr. Wood. You are at liberty to file with the committee any state- 
ment you have prepared which will be considered in the record for use 
by the committee. The reading of the statement is not permitted by 
the committee. 

Mr. Cherveny. I'd like to read it into the record if I may. 

Mr. Wood. I still say it is not permitted by the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name please, sir ? 

Mr. Cherveny. John Cherveny. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born? 

Mr. Cherveny. I was born in Yugoslavia, ]\Iarch 17, 1926. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in the United States ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Approximately 11 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen? 

Mr. Cherveny. I was naturalized in the Navy, 1914 — in San 
Francisco. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2771 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside? 

Mr. Cherveny. In the cit}^ of Detroit, 1560 Lee PLace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through what port did you enter the United States 
when you first arrived ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Well, Detroit or Windsor, the tunnel over here. 

Mr. Ta\tcnner. Did you come alone or with your parents ? 

Mr. Cherveny, I came with my father and my brothers and sisters. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive your citizenship through the deriva- 
tive process ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I received my naturalization papers through the 
Navy Department. I volunteered for the Navy service and was taken, 
and after o months of being in California I was taken to the district 
court in San Francisco and naturalized. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVill you outline, please, for the committee your 
educational training and background ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Grammar school, high school, and 3 years of college. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your college work? 

Mr. Cherveny. Approximately in the early part of 1949, I am not 
sure of the month. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you finish your college training ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Wayne University. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period you were a student at Wayne 
University, were you president of the Wayne University chapter of the 
American Youth for Democracy ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that relying upon my fifth- 
amendment privilege under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Tavenner. What provision in the Constitution ? 

jNIr. Cherveny. I have already answered that question — the fifth 
amendment. There is only one provision there. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. What is that provision ? 

ISIr. Cherveny. That provision is the one where one cannot testify 
against oneself. 

Mr. Tavenner. One cannot ? 

Mr. CHER^'ENY. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Or one may not ? 

]Mr. Cherveny. You are the lawmaker, I am not. You should know 
the wording. 

jMr. Tavenner. Is your refusal to answer based upon an actual fear 
on your part that to do so truthfully might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Cherveny. It is based upon the fact that this is a witch-hunt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it is not any fear of criminal prosecution. I 
request that the witness be directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Cherveny. I again invoke my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you are changing your position at this 
time ? 

Mr. Chervney. I again invoke my privilege to answer that ques- 
tion. 

]Mr. Wood. Well, the question asked you a moment ago which you 
are directed to answer was whether or not your declining to answer is 
based on your statement that this was a witch-hunt or upon your fear 
of criminal prosecution for answering truthfully. Which is it? 

Mr. Cherveny. The latter — fear of criminal prosecution. 

97097 — 52 — pt. 1 5 



2772 COMMUNISM IN THE di:troit area 

Mr. Tavenner. Will yoii advise tlie committee of the origin of the 
American Youth for Democracy first as a national organization if you 
know ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that question basing it on the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. This committee has made some investigation of that 
matter and let me give you the results of its investigaticm and ask you 
whether or not this information is in error in any respect as far as you 
know : according to an investigation and report issued by the Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities, the American Youth for Democ- 
racy was founded in New York City by the same delegates who were 
called to New York for a convention of the Young Conununist League. 

The records of the committee establish that these delegates at the 
morning session of the Young Comnnmist League voted to disband the 
Young Communist League and that the same delegates met in tlie 
afternoon and formed the American Youth for Democracy and elected 
its new officers from the delegates to the Young Conununist League 
Convention. 

With the American Youth for Democi'acy then having been created 
by the Communist Party Youth Connnission. did you as chairman of 
the Wayne University chapter considt with leaders of the Communist 
Party in Detroit with respect to the activities of your organization? 
NoAv that may be a double question. First let me ask you whether 
or not the fact or actual situation with regard to the creation of tlie 
American Youth for Democracy is correct? 

Mr, Cherveny. I refuse to answer that question relying upon my 
fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVell, were you present as a delegate at the Con- 
vention of the Young Communist League, which as described brought 
about the formation of the American Youth for Democracy? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well then, I repeat the last pai-t of the former ques- 
tion : Did you as chairman of the Wayne University chapter of the 
American Youth for Democracy consult leaders of the Communist 
Party in Detroit with regard to the activities of your organization at 
Wayne University ? 

Mr, Cherveny. I refuse to answ^er that, sir, invoking my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a clipping which appeared in a Detroit 
newspaper entitled, "Parent Ties Held by Wayne's AYD." You will 
note in this story by Irmengard Pohrt that you are quoted in connec- 
tion with a discussion relative to the severing of Wayne chapter ties 
with the national AYD organization. Will you examine the article, 
please? 

You will note a quotation there from you as follows : 

We would be betraying onr entire progressive program and betraying our 
own AYD. 

Will you state to the committee what you meant by that statement 
if you were correctly quoted ? 

Mr. Cherveny. Wliat was that question again, sir? 

]Mr. Tavenner. I called your attention to the quotation which I 
will ask you to follow by looking at the paper — 

We wonld be betraying our entire progre.ssive program and betraying our 
own AYD. 



COMMUNISxM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2773 

Do you see that ? 

Mr. CiiERVENY . I see that quote. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did you mean by it? 

Mr. CiiERVENY. I refuse to auswer that, sir, invokiug tlie privilege 
uuder the fifth ameudment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, are you giving that answer because you had 
in mind betraying the program of the Communist Party? 

]Mr. CiiERVEXY. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it a fact that you objected to the severance of 
connection of your local organization with the national AYD because 
to do so would be a desertion of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would examine the article further, please, 
and see if you find in it a statement to the efiect that you denied you 
were a member of the Communist Party or that you had ever attended^ 
Communist Party meetings. Will you examine it and see if you find 
that statement? 

Mr. CiiERVENY. That statement is attributed to me in this article. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it truthful — were you truthfully and correctly 
reported ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that. sir. invoking my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. Well, at the time that article w^as printed, did you author- 
ize any person to so quote you then ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir, on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr, Wood. I will ask you then if you were correctly quoted as 
appears in that article? Did you use those words yourself from 
which the writer of the article quoted you ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I was insisting upon it because you now^ have a forum 
in which you may deny it and we will be happy to have you do so 
truthfully. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, regardless of whether or not you were cor- 
rectly quoted, had you at that time attended a Communist Party 
meeting ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time that this statement was allegedly made by you ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. Mr. Chairman, I offer, to be made a part of the 
record as an exhibit, the article referred to and ask that it be given 
the number of "Cherveny Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It may be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Cherveny Exhibit No. 1" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Cherveny, on December 15, 1947, a meeting 
was held at 275 East Ferry, at which the principal speakers were 
Gerhart Eisler, Carl IMarzani, and ]\Irs. Ann Shore of the Civil Rights 
Congress. Will you tell the committee, please, what knowledge you 
have of the holding of this meeting and its purpose? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that question, sir, invoking my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 



2774 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Who arranged for that meeting ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that on the same basis, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How w^as Mr. Eisler's and Mr. Marzani's partici- 
pation in the program obtained ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir, under the fifth amend- 
ment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph containing the pictures 
of three individuals. Will you identify the photograph of the indi- 
vidual in the center ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not your photograph ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are not the photographs of Gerhart Eisler and 
Carl Marzani to the right and to the left of you in that photograph? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer, sir, on the fifth amendment 
privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, at that time Mr. Gerhart Eisler was under in- 
dictment for contempt of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
and Carl Marzani was under indictment for denying membership in 
the Communist Party at a time when he was employed by the United 
States Government. 

Can you explain to the committee the real purpose of having them 
as speakers before your organization under those circumstances ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir, placing myself on the 
fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it have anything to do with the raising of funds 
for their defense ^ 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Do you know to what extent the Communist Party 
engineered or planned or counseled the holding of such a meeting 
witli such i^ersons addressing the meeting ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that on the fifth amendment 
privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the photograph in evidence and ask that it 
be marked "Cherveny Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Clierveny Exhibit No. 2" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Jackson. Is this Gerhart Eisler the same Eisler who fled from 
this country on the Batory and is now active in educational work in 
Eastern Germany? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Were you employed at any time by Amer- 
ican Metal Products? 

Mr. Cherveny. Well, prior to my being called here I was employed 
there and I hoi)e I still have a job there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Maurice Cook ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment privilege. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his former wife, Eleanor 
Laffrey Cook? 

Mr. Cherv^eny. I refuse to answer that under the fifth amendment 
privilege. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Do you know whether her name is now Elinor 
Laffery Maki? 

Mr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETEOIT AREA 2775 

Mr. TAM3NNER. Will 5^011 tell the committee please, what Communist 
Party functionary in Detroit if any, counseled and advised the AYD 
or<janization at Wayne University in the conduct of its affairs? 

Mr. Cher\t.ny. I refuse to answer that. I am placing myself upon 
my fifth amendment privilege. 

']\Ir. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Moulder? 

INIr. Moulder. j\Ir. Cherveny, in response to a question asked you 
by counsel, you made reference to this committee's actions here as 
being a witch hunt. Do you mean by that that the committee seeks 
something that exists only in one's imagination and that it doesn't 
really exist? 

Mr. Cherveny. Sir, I think the committee should seek out peo- 
ple in Florida. They are terrorizing people. These are the real sub- 
versives — not in Detroit. 

Mr. Moulder. I said, do you mean by this being a witch hunt that 
the committee seeks information on something that really doesn't 
exist? 

Mr. Cheratent. I think the committee is using the hearing to smoke- 
screen and fool the American people into a witch hunt and scare. 

Mr. Moulder. Taking the ordinary usage of the word, and if that 
is true, why did you refuse to answer questions on the belief that it 
might tend to incriminate you from criminal prosecution? In other 
words, if the committee is seeking information on subjects which don't 
exist and are not dangerous, then why aren't your answers in connec- 
tion with that, and not so seriously taken by you as being afraid that 
your answers might tend to incriminate you for criminal prosecution? 

Mr. Cherveny. It is my opinion. Congressman, that it is impossible 
to conduct an objective hearing in view of the kind of atmosphere this 
committee generates. Wherever it goes, it scares people. People 
lose their jobs and people are afraid to speak their mind. 

Mr. Wood. Are you afraid now? 

Mr. Cherveny. I Avould not be afraid to debate any point with this 
committee if we could go out and get a town hall and discuss the 
questions that the American people are faced with. 

Mr. Wood. I want a plain answer to this : At the present moment, are 
you under any apprehension of danger here ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I think that the procedures have an atmosphere of a 
witch hunt. 

jNIr. Wood. Are you personally now afraid of any injury being com- 
mitted on you here? If so, I will send out to see if I can get guards 
to stand around you. 

Mr. Cherveny. You see, sir, there are different kinds of fears. One 
is to express one's opinion. 

Mr. Wood. Will you answer my question? Are you now experi- 
encing any danger or any apprehension of danger to yourself? 

Mr. Cherveny. 1 probably just lost my job and won't be able to 
support my kid and wife. 

j\Ir. Wood. Wh}^ did you lose your job, if you have? 

Mr. Cherveny. Well, it has been the custom of this committee 
whenever witnesses are called, that they are so discredited by the head- 
lines and the witch-hunting type of questions asked, that the person, if 
he has a job, or she, loses the job. 



2776 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Wood. Don't yon think if yon are guilty of any conduct in the 
past that might tend to mitigate against you in the eyes of your em- 
ployer, this is the best forum yon can get to so deny it? 

Mr. CuEKVEXT. If I could face my accusers — if this is a regular court 
■where I could see the people accusing me, then it would be something 
else. I have nothing to say — I have to answer "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Wood. There is nobody accusing you. We are simply giving 
you an opportunity to say whether or not you belong to this con- 
spiracy directed from abroad whose sole object and purpose is to 
destroy constitutional liberty everywhere. If j^ou want to answer it 
and if you want to deny it — truthfully deny it — we will be happy to 
have you do so. I get worried when I hear folks wlio are witnesses 
l)ef ore this committee say that they are afraid somebody is going to be 
hurt. 

Mr. CiiERV-ENY. If you can tell me how I can support my wife and 
kid 

Mr. Wood. I hope you can do that and continue to support them 
in a free government and free country without having to be taken 
over by the Communist conspiracy, 

Mr. Cherveny. And the Ku Klux Klan. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Cherveny, you mentioned you would like to de- 
bate the issues 

Mr. Cherveny. Outside where Congress doesn't have immunity, in 
the town meeting. 

Mr. Moulder. Which issue do you wish to discuss? 

Mr. Cherveny. Any issues the committee chooses. 

Mr. Moulder. The Communist Party for example — communistic 
activities in this country? Are you a member of that organization? 

Mr. Cher\'eny. I refuse to answer that, sir, placing myself on the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Moulder. How can you debate issues on the subject which you 
refuse to discuss? How can you ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I have answered that question. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask you another question : Before you attended 
this meeting here and appeared before the committee as a witness, did 
you confer with anyone else in respect to your testimony other than 
your attorney ? 

Mr. Cher^^eny. I refuse to answer that, placing myself on the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you attend any Communist meetings and con- 
fer with anyone with I'efei'ence to what your conduct and testimony 
was going to be here before the committee ? 

JNIr. Cherveny. I refuse to answer that sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. JMoulder. That is all. 

Mr. Jackson. I have only to say that I consider the gentleman very 
fortunate to be able to appear before a congressional committee of the 
United States Congress rather than a committee of the Politburo. 
Your conduct here today would insure holes in your head by tomorrow 
morning before a Soviet court. 

Mr. Wood, I announced at the beginning of these hearings, ladies 
and gentlemen, and perhaps I should have done it again this morning 
because there may be some here who were not here yesterday : We will 
not countenance any demonstration favorable or unfavorable to what 
may be said here by either witnesses or members of this committee. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2777 

1 would regret very much to liave the officers clear the room. Similar 
demonstrations positively will not be permitted again. Are there any 
further questions'^ 

Mr. Jackson. Simply to say it seems to me, Mr. Chairman, if there 
is any liysteria in Detroit or elsewhere in the country, it is not in 
this connnittee. The obvious hysteria is walking up and down in front 
of the Federal Building picketing. It is doing a number of other 
things, and no limitations are being placed upon these people saying or 
doing exactly as they wish. It is fortunate that you got out of Yugo- 
slavia before Tito came in. I congratulate you upon the privilege 
that is vours of living in a free land. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. You stated that you would appreciate the opportunity 
of debating with the committee or any one member of the committee, 
I assume, in a hall where you could discuss the issues. Is it because 
in a hall, outside of this committee, where you are under oath to tell 
the truth, you then would be able to utilize your propaganda where 
truth is of secondary nature to the objectives of your propaganda that 
you care to use i Here you are bound to tell the truth — you are sworn 
to tell the truth. Xow, is that the reason that you prefer another forum 
because there you are not required to tell the truth? 

Mr. NoRRis. If I may suggest, that calls for a legal conclusion, Mr. 
Potter, and as to that we have to recognize that there is a composite 
entrapment here being faced with perjury and contempt, or the Smith 
Act. That is, prosecution under this type of proceedings. There is 
a difference between this type of proceedings and an open forum. 

Mr. Potter. I still say that unless you are a member of an inter- 
national conspiracy or unless you are a part of that conspiracy, you 
can tell the truth with no fear of reprisal. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not recall whether the witness gave us the date 
•of his arrival in the United States. I would like to ask that. 

Mr. Cherveny. I answered that. 

]Mr. Ta\^nner. "\^^iat date was it? 

Mr. Cherveny. You mean the exact date ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. As near as you can give us. 

Mr. Cher\t:ny. It was approximately December of 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood, When were you naturalized as an American citizen ? 

Mr. Cherveny. I was naturalized by the Navy Department. 

Mr. Wood. You had service in the Navy ? 

Mr. Cher\teny. That is right. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused 
from further attendance, Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered, and the committee stands in recess. 

(The witness was excused.) 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee come to order. Mr. Counsel, are 
you ready to proceed? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Who do you have as the next witness ? 

Mr. Ta\t;nner. Mr. Walter Dunn. 



2778 COMMUNISM IX TIIK DETROIT AREA 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER SCOTT DUNN 

Mr. Wooi>. Mr. Dunn, will you come forward and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subconnnittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. DuNx. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Wood. You have the privilege of having such counsel of your 
choice if you may desire. 

Mr. Dunn. I don't care for any, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Dunn. Walter Scott Dunn. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Dunn. In England in 1903. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country from England? 

Mr. Dunn. Around 1925. 

Mr. Tav'enner. Where did you enter? 

Mr. Dunn. Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you obtain naturalization and where? 

Mr. Dunn. In Detroit on November 13, 1933. 

Mr. Tavenner, I didn't understand the date. 

Mr. Dunn. Detroit, November 13, 1933. 

Mr, Tavenner. How are you now employed ? 

Mr, Dunn, I work at the Wayne County Jail as a jail guard. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed there? 

Mr. Dunn. About 31/2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time what has been your employment 
say for the past 10 years ? 

Mr. Dunn. Automobile painter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Employed where? 

Mr. Dunn. Mostly at the Cadillac Motor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dunn, are you now a member of the Comnuuiist 
Party ? 

Mr, Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you join the party? 

Mr, Dunn. 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, when did you cease to be a member? 

Mr. Dunn. Either the latter part of 1946 or the early part of 
1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. The conniiittee wishes to obtain from you such 
information as you can give us regarding your experiences in the 
Communist Party, and your knowledge of the operation of the Com- 
munist Party in this area during tlie time that you were affiliated with 
it. I think tlie best place to begin is right at the beginning. Would 
you tell the connnittee how you were recruited into the party, please? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I was active in the labor movement — I have been 
since probably 1928 and as you know, in the labor movement, particu- 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2779 

]arly the UAW, you have two wings — the left wing and the right wing 
which is tlie political nucleus of the union. I was always a so-called 
left-winger because I believed the program was more to the interest 
of the workers than w^hat the right wing was. As a result of that I 
met several members of the party and I was finally reciniited by 
Eddie Elbert ^ who worked at Cadillac with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Communist Party making any extended 
effort at the time in 1941 to recruit members of the trade-union 
groups into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I don't knqw what you mean by an extended 
effort. Will you clarify that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they making any effort to appeal to the 
trade-unionists ? 

Mr. Dunn. I think I could answer "Yes" to that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well now, will you tell the committee a little more 
of the circumstances under which Eddie Elbert recruited you into the 
party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, we used to have caucuses where policies would be 
discussed — what policy we were going to follow in our local union, 
so that as a result of that maybe a half a dozen people would get to- 
gether at someone's home and we would formulate a policy and 
then we'd go into a large caucus and from that a policy would be 
adopted ; and I recall Eddie Elbert was one of these few people that 
used to meet in these smaller caucuses. That is how I first got to know 
him. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were the members of these caucuses selected ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, they'd take a man that was active, probably a 
steward or committeeman and ask him if he believed in such-and-so 
program. If he did, we'd invite him to this caucus. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then if the membership of a particular caucus con- 
tained enough members of the Communist Party, they could control 
through this caucus, virtually control, the action of the union on any 
particular issue, could it not? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I'd say on some issues, yes; but on a numb r of 
issues they didn't. Just the ordinary left-wing guy would have num- 
bers enough to on many occasions outvote the Communist I arty 
members. 

Mr. Tavenner. But would you state that that is the method that 
was used by the Communist Party to exercise its influence and coi itrol 
of the union ? 

Mr. Dunn. I imagine that was the purpose of it but it didn't always 
succeed, I want to make that clear. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Counsel, I have heard that even within the left- 
wing section that sometimes that will be divided between a right 
and left wing, your left being your members of the Communist Party 
and your so-called right wing of your left-wing group would be non- 
Communists Avho accepted and believed in the left-wing program. 
Is that true, Mr. Dunn ? 

Mr. Dunn. That is true; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it while you were employed at the Cadillac 
plant tliat you were recruited into the party? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 



^ D-eceased. 



2780 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to a particular unit or cell wliem 
you Avere broug'ht into the party ? 

Mr. DuxN. Assigned to the Cadillac unit, Cadillac branch as they 
called it. 

Mr, Tavennek. In addition to the group of the Communist Party 
within the Cadillac ])lant, I would like for you to advise the committee 
in a general way as to just what the composition of the Communist 
Party in Detroit was at the time you became a member. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I didn't know much at that particular time about 
what was going on in any place else, but I did know what the composi- 
tion was on the west side. 

In the industrial sections we had what they call a section which 
took in several branches. Cadillac was part of that section. The Ford 
group was part of that section until it became too unwieldly. They 
broke away from the other main section which was composed of many 
small plants. So there were tw'o sections then. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have heard evidence relating to the fifth section. 
Will you tell us about the other sections? Can you tell us about the 
formation of the other sections as to what organizations were em- 
braced within ? For instance, I understand you know about the sec- 
ond section. Will you begin by telling us which plants were repre- 
sented in the second section, if you know? 

Mr. Dunn. Well. I don't know whether it was the second section or 
not, but if it was, if this was the section I belonged to, they were com- 
posed of Cadillac, Timken, Temstedt, Kelsey-Hayes, and many other 
small shops. 

Mr. Tam3nner. Then, as I understand and you have already said, 
that the cells among the employees working in the Ford plant were 
wnthdrawn from these sections and made a separate section all to 
itself? 

Mr. Dunn. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall how many sections were in the Ford 
plant? 

]\fr. Dunn. Just one section. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just one section, but how many cells ? 

Mr. Dunn. I don't know ; I couldn't answer that. 

INIr. Tavenner. Now, going back to the group or cell in which you 
were a member, the one at Cadillac, who were the officers when you 
became a member ? 

Mr. Dunn. Eddie Elbert w^as the branch organizer and I can't 
remember who the other officers were, if there w^ere any other officers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become an officer in time in your group — 
the one at Cadillac? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes; I became branch organizer. 

ISIr. Tavenner. About how many people were in this group or cell 
of the party ? 

IVfr. Dunn. About 11 people. 

INIr. Tavenner. Will you give us their names, please. Those in 
addition to Eddie Elbert, whom you have already mentioned. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I can't recall some of the names. There was Max 
Ireland. 

Mr. Tavenner. Max Ireland? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. Then thre was Katherine Lynch, who was at- 
tached to that section, because I don't think they had any place to put 
her. She was on the Free Press at the time. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2781 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she have any particular function to play in 
3'our group ? 

MrrDuNN. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. She was just attached to your group for lack of a 
proper oroup ? 

Mr. Dunn. As far as I know, that is the way it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did she remain a member of that group 
to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Dunn. Oh, just 2 or 3 months, I think it was. 

]\rr. Tavenner. Well, do j^ou know what her position was in the 
Communist Party or to what group she was assigned after she left 
your group ? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

]\fr. Ta\t2nner. Do you have any knowledge, that is, of your own 
personal knowledge, regarding the formation of professional cells in 
the Communist Party ? 

]\Ir. Dunn. No ; I don't know anything about that. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is to which members of the various professions 
may have belonged? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, if you will proceed, please. You have 
given us the names of ]\Iax Ireland and Katherine Lynch. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, there is Oscar Barnes. 

]\f r. Tavenner. Was Alex Hatcher a member of your group ? 

Mr. Dunn. No; I am not quite sure about that. He may have been 
but I couldn't for certain tell you whether he was or not. I was 
acquainted with the man. He was a committeeman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he employed at Cadillac? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. I heard that he had been but I mean that doesn't mean 
anything, what you hear. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would prefer that you not repeat matters that you 
have merely heard. If you have laiowledge such as that which you 
would acquire by sitting in closed Communist Party meetings with 
individuals, we would like to have the information. Do you recall 
having been in Communist Party meetings with him during the time 
you were an organizer of the Communist Party club at Cadillac? 

Mr. Dunn. I coukhi't say for sure whether I was ever in their 
closed meetings witli Alex Hatcher. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Can you recall any othei^s at this time? 

Mr. Dunn. No, actually I can't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did the Cadillac cell of the Communist Party 
hold its meetings ? 

Mr. Dunn. Oh, they were liable to hold them any place, but even- 
tually they held them, I think it was on Michigan Avenue. 

Mr. Ta\tnner. Do you recall the address on Michigan Avenue? 

Mr. Dunn. No, but it was near Junction Avenue, somewhere around 
there. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that in addition to the cells or lower 
groups or levels of the party having their own organizations, that the 
section groups, or the sections, have their organizations likewise? 

Mr. Dunn. That is true. 



2782 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenxkr. Did you ever represent your club or cell of the party 
as a member of the section grouj^? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. At first I was sent as a sort of a delegate to the 
section, and later I was the organizational secretary for the section. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you organizational secretary? 

Mr. Dunn. Oh, I'd say between 6 months and a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you fix the approximate time? 

Mr. Dunn. I would say about 1942. 

Mr, Tavenner. Where did it hold its meetings ? 

Mr. Dunn. On Michigan Avenue at the same address. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the membership of that section group I 

Mr. Dunn. That would be pretty hard for me to say but I will 
assume it would be between 100 and 150. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, how was the membership made up? 

Mr. Dunn. Of the branches. Each branch sent a representative 
to the section, that is what made up the sections — the representatives 
from those branches. 

Mr. TxVvenner. Does that mean there was a separate branch for each 
member of the section ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, in some cases two would come from a branch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the officers of the second section at the 
time that you held the position of organizational secretary ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, the only one I can think of for sure was Jack 
White. He was the chairman of the section. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the name of the literature director ? 

Mr, Dunn. No, I couldn't actually. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of other persons who 
were members of this section group ? 

Mr. Dunn. Which section are you talking about now? Are you 
talking about the original section or 



Mr. Tavenner, I thinlv we should confine the testimony at this 
point to the one of which you were the organizational secretary, 
which I believe was section 2, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I can't think of any of the other officers of the 
section. It happened a long time ago. I can't recall their names. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. Were you acquainted with William 
Allan? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes, I was acquainted with William Allan even prior 
to this time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee whether or not he was 
a member of the party, that is Communist Party, to your knowledge, 
and if so just what his functions were? 

Mr, Dunn. Well, as I recall it, he was the organizer for the original 
section, the west side section. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner, Do you recall whether he had any special connec- 
tion Avith the organization of the groups of the Communist Party 
within Ford, that is within the Ford plant? 

Mr. Dunn. I think he did. I think he spent quite a bit of time with 
the Ford group. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other persons were associated wHth him in 
that work at Ford, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I "recall Ed Lock and Paul Boatin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ed Lock? How do you spell that? 

Mr. Dunn. I don't know — L-o-c-k, 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2783 

Mr. Tavenner. The best you can recall is that the spelling is 
L-o-c-k? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. , , t. i t^ • o 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Now you mentioned Paul Boatni? 

Mr, Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is B-o-a-t-i-n ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. . 

Mr. Tavenner. Just what were the functions of those two persons, 

if you can recall? , i t ^i 

Mr. Dunn. I couldn't tell vou that. I ]ust know that I saw them 
at a meeting of the large section before it was split up. I recall those 
two gentlemen being at that meeting. 

Mr. TAM3NNER. You referred to the section being split up. When 
did that occur? 

Mr. Dunn. I presume sometime in 1942 or 1941 — or 1942. 
Mr. Tavenner. You are referring to the Ford cells in the Ford plant,, 
leaving your section and forming a section of its own. That is the time 
you are speaking of ? 

Mr. Dunn. That is the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any change in the organizational set-up 
of the party when the Conmmiiist Political Association was created 
in 1944 ( 

Mr. Dunn. Well, yes, they disbanded the branches and the sections 
and they created neighborhood clubs, 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, those persons who were members 
of the branches in industry were transferred to community clubs? 

Mr. Dunn. I wouldn't give the term "transfer," I would say they 
were advised to join neighborhood clubs, 

Mr. Tavenner, Did they join community clubs? 
Mr, Dunn, Well, that would be hard for me to answer because 
maybe a man will be working at Cadillac that lived on the East Side 
who had been in the Cadillac branch. I wouldn't know whether he 
joined the East Side club or not, but I'd meet quite a few people who I 
met in various branches in the Midtown Club which I joined myself, 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you tell the committee please, what activi- 
ties you engaged in while a member of the Midtown Club of the Com- 
munist Political Association? What were some of the activities of 
that club which you engaged in or had personal knowledge of? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, primarily I was interested in political action and 
I met a fellow by the name of Dan R.yan, who was later elected State 
Senator, and he was organizing sort of a rump Democratic Club, 
There was some difference between many of the Democratic delegates. 
He got a hold of a few of these Democratic delegates and talked to me 
and talked to several trade-unionists that he kue^y. 

Mr. Tavenner, Were those trade-unionists members of the Commu- 
nist Party? 

jVIr. Dunn. No ; and we decided to set up this club. We called it the 
Thirteenth District Democratic Club and the purpose of this was to 
remove the chairman of the Democratic Party who was Congressman 
George D. O'Brien, but we didn't succeed, 
JNIr. Tavenner, The ]nirpose was to what? 

Mr. Dunn. To remove the chairman of the Thirteenth district. 
Mr. Tavenner. To remove him? 
Mr. Dunn. To put a more liberal type of fellow in there. 



2784 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Ta^tsnner. Now, when you say "We" to whom do you refer ? 

Mr. DinsTN. I refer to the coalition forces that made up this Demo- 
cratic Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. And was that coalition directed and counseled by 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there persons on it other than yourself who 
were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, by the time this club had developed, the Com- 
munist Party went out of existence and the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation took form. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I was drawing the distinction between the 
two. 

Mr. Dunn. So I would say there were members of the Communist 
Political Association in this club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was this an activity of the Communist Polit- 
ical Association — the JNIidtown Club — which brought about this 
coalition and worked in favor of promoting the coalition ? 

JSIr. Dunn. Well, the way it happened — the}' set up a political 
action committee in the Midtown Club and I think I was chairman of 
that committee, and the committee when they met decided that we 
would advise all members to join this club ; since there was no Com- 
munist Party anymore, the thing to do was join the Democratic Party 
if we wanted to get some political action. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVell, was this group which you called, or say was, 
a coalition and which bore the name "Democratic ChiV),'' organized 
pursuant to a plan developed or discussed within your Midtown Com- 
nninist Political Association? 

:Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was independent of that in its' origin ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. I know that for sure because I was^ 

Mr. Tavenner. But as the work of the coalition continued, your 
Midtown Club advised its members to get into it ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Did they advise its members to get into it with the 
idea of exercising control and direction of it? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, it all depends what you mean by "control." I 
think they were primarily interested in winning an election at the 
time and they wanted to get as many forces as they could to man the 
precincts and get the vote out. I don't think there was any actual 
thinking on the part of the Communist Political Association members 
of taking over the club. I don't think that was in the minds of any- 
body. 

Air. Tavenner. Are there any other activities of tlie Communist 
Political Association or rather the Midtown Club which you can tell 
the committee about ? 

Mr. Dunn. Do you mean the activities that the club was engaged 
in? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Dunn. Oh, they were engaged in selling literature, selling the 
press, demonstrating on public matters — maybe on jorices or something 
like that, would organize demonstrations and stuff of that nature. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the incident of Duclos? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes ; I recall that well. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2785 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee what the effect of the Duclos 
letter was in Detroit. Possibly you should begin by stating what the 
Duclos letter was, if you recall. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, to put it simply, it was a criticism of the activities 
of the Communists in the United States, that they weren't doing what 
they were supposed to do, that the leadership was leading them astray, 
and so forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was criticism emanating from abroad, was it 

not? 

Mr. Dunn. From France. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is, the Communist International chose as the 
means of conveying the criticism a letter in the Communist circles in 
France by Duclos who wrote this letter criticizing the activities of 
the Communist Party of the United States and that was accepted, 
was it not, as a directive from the Third International to change the 
whole program of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. There was no international at that time. The inter- 
national had been disbanded. 

Mr. Tax-enner. But the secretaries of all of the groups were never- 
theless associated together, and by that means directed the activities 
of the Connnunist Party, though "in form the international may have 
been out of existence ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, that is the way it would appear today when you 
look back, you know — that is the way it would appear to me today, 
that that was exactly done. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now as a result of that Duclos letter criticizing the 
Connnunist Party, what happened here in Detroit? What was the 
reaction here? 

Mr. Dunn. There was a long debate that lasted months, and it 
seems to me it lasted an awful lon^ time over the question of whether 
this was correct or not, whether the national leadership was leading 
us right or was it leading us wrong, and the eventual outcome of that 
was that Earl Browder was kicked out and William Z. Foster was 
the national chairman. 

Mr. TxVvenner. Well, what organizational changes resulted here in 
Detroit as a result of the reactivation of the Communist Party in 
1945? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, they voted on whether to disband the Communist 
Political Association and form a party again. And that was debated 
quite a while and finally acted upon and the Communist Party came 
into being again. 

Mr. Tavenner. After it came into being, were the branches reestab- 
lished in the Ford plants, and were the branches in other industries 
including Cadillac reestablished as before? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you return to your own former unit of the 
party ? 

Mr. Dunn. I did for a short while, then I quit. It was very shortly 
after that that I quit. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. After you returned to Cadillac did you continue in 
any special function of the party there as an officer ? 

Mr. Dunn. I was the branch organizer for a while, then a chap by 
.the name of Carl Rogers succeeded me. 



2786 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavtsnner. Carl Rogers? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was employed at Cadillac, I suppose ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any new organizational work done at or about 
that time in which you played a part? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, the General Motors strike occurred at that time. 
That took up the complete attention of the branch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did the party organize a cell within the Gen- 
eral Motors Corp. at that time or prior to the strike that you referred 
to? 

Mr. Dunn. It seems to me there was a General Motors Club set up 
for the purpose of assisting in the strike. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any connection with it ? 

Mr. Dunn. I was some kind of functionary; I don't remember 
what it was though. 

Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you one of the organizers of the new group 
to be set up within General Motors to aid in this strike as you men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Dunn. No ; I don't think I was. You see, at that time I was 
elected publicity director for the strike in the Detroit area and tliat 
occupied all my time so I don't see how I could have been doing any 
organizing. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, let us take a recess for lunch. The committee 
will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12: 35 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 2 p. m. 
the same day.) 

afternoon session 

Mr. Wood. We will have order, please. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 would like to recall for further examination, 
Mr. Walter Dunn. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Dunn, will you come back to the stand, please? 

Mr. Tav'enner. Mr. Dunn, did you at any time become a candi- 
date for political office while you were a member of the Connnunist 
Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. In 1946, I was a candidate for the State — for 
State senator in the fourth senatorial district. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what ticket were you running? 

Mr. Dunn. On the Communist Party ticket. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in 1946? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you elected? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee may be interested in the circum- 
stances under which you ran for election on the Communist Party 
ticket, and what support you received from the Conmumist Party, 
and any other facts relating to it to show the interest of the Com- 
munist Party and its effort to build a political organization. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, in the first place, quite a bunch of us in the 
Thirteenth Congressional District, party members, got together and 
discussed the question of running me on the Democratic ticket, be- 



COMMUNISxM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2787 

cause this was just around tlie time when the association was aban- 
doned and they came back to the party. In fact, I had my petitions 
ah-eady signed to run as a candidate for State senator on the Demo- 
cratic Party ticket, when there was some question raised about the 
advisability of me doing that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Raised by whom? 

Mr. Dunn. By tlie district office, 

Mr. Tavenner. Of wliat? 

Mr. Dunn. Of the Communist Party. 

Mr, TA^'ENNER. Proceed. 

Mr, Dunn. A meeting was called in Jericho Temple by probably 
two dozen party members who i-esided in the Thirteenth District. 

Mr. Tavexner. Was that a regular meeting place for the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr, Dunn. Not to my knowledge, no. We just rented the hall for 
that evening. This whole question was thrashed out and a vote 
cast and taken on it. They voted unanimously for me to run as 
a Democrat, but either the day before or after — — 

Mr. Tavenner, You mean you got your decision as to running 
on the Democratic Party ticket in the Communist meeting? 

Mr. Dunn. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. TJiat was a Communist direction and it was Com- 
munist support that you were being promised ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, you see, you have to visualize just what went on at 
that time. Most of us at that meeting had been elected precinct dele- 
gates on the Democratic ticket, and during this period the change 
came over, where the party was brought back into life again, but it 
had not established itself solidly enough, shall I say, and people were 
still thinking in terms of the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. But at any rate, you say you got the approval, the 
unanimous approval, of the Communists who attended this meeting 
that you should run on the Democratic ticket? 

Mr, Dunn. That is correct- 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed? 

Mr. Dunn. In either 1 or 2 or 3 days later, I w^as informed by Helen 
Allison that if I ran on any ticket, I would run on the Communist 
Party ticket. 

Mr. Tavenner. And who was this Allison person ? 

Mr. Dunn. Carl Winter's wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. She gave you directions that if you ran on any ticket, 
you would run on the Communist Party ticket ? 

Mr. Dunn, That is right. That's when I found out there was no 
democracy in the Communist Party. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. You were not asked to express your opinion or your 
willingness to run on the Communist Party ticket; you were just told 
to do that? 

Mr. Dunn. Xo. I mean this was the first discussion we had on it. 
Later I agreed to run on the Communist Party ticket. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was finy reason expressed why you should not be 
permitted to run on the Democratic ticket? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, the only reason was told to me was to forget about 
the Democratic Party, "We don't want any more part of the Demo- 
cratic Party." 

97097— 52— pt. 1 6 



2788 COiVIMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in what year? 

Mr. Dunn. 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you followed the suggestion or direction given 
by Mrs. Winter and became a candidate on the Communist Party 
ticket? 

Mr. Dunn. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other circumstances surrounding that 
campaign which you recall and which may throw some light upon the 
extent of the interest of the Comnmnist Party in State elections ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, there was one thing that happened that interested 
me very much. There was a Negro lady that ran for State senator in 
the third senatorial district on the Communist Party ticket. I ran in 
the fourth senatorial district on the Conununist Party ticket. The 
make-up of the neighborhood that I ran in was practically an all white 
neighborhood. In the neighborhood where this Negro lady was run- 
ning, it was practically solidly Negro neighborhood. 

There is a common belief that the Communist Party propaganda has 
penetrated into the Negro groups and sways them much more than it 
does the white people. However, the results of that election, at least, 
did not prove that to me, because" either I got 199 votes and she got 
203, or it was reversed, but the vote was so close that it amazed me at 
the time. 

From that, I assumed that the Communist Party as such was not 
influencing the people. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, as far as the colored people were 
concerned, there was no greater support given a Communist Party can- 
didate for office than in the sections where the white voters pre- 
dominated ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you break with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I am not quite sure about that, but it was shortly 
after that period that I broke. I mean, these were things that were 
developing in my mind. I didn't appreciate the j)olicy that they 
adopted when they decided to bring the party back to life again. I 
didn't mention it at the time, but I was in complete disagreement, in 
my own mind, and this thing lingered for awhile. 

I finally decided that I just couldn't go along with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you finally took the step of leaving the party ? 

Mr. Dunn. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your break with the party absolute and com- 
plete ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, two gentlemen came to my house one day and I 
told them that I was quitting. They told me I couldn't quit. I said, 
"I am quitting, so good day, gentlemen." I afterward learned that I 
was expelled. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlio were the two persons that came to see you ? 

Mr. Dunn. I don't know wdio they were. I know one fellow but 
can't recall his name. The other man I never seen before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been solicited since that time to reunite 
with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, I believe, thoroughly understands 
that the matter takes far more courage to get out of the Communist 
Party than it does to get into it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2789 

Mr. Dunn. I think that is quite true. There are quite a few people 
in the Communist Party right now that would be glad to get out, only 
they have not got the courage to get out. 

Mr. Wood. Were you ever officially notified by any party official 
tliat 3^ou had been expelled ? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to explain a little more con- 
cretely your reasons for leaving the Connnunist Party; just how they 
developed. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, with the advent of the Communist Political As- 
sociation, I enjoyed my work in this association. We used to work 
in the Democratic Party influencing the program of the Democratic 
Party, and it was a liberal program, and it seemed like the whole 
thing was to the best interests of everybody, the program that was 
advocated. 

Wlien they changed, I mean everything changed, you know. The 
people wdio were our former allies — I don't mean world-wide — I mean 
locally or on a State level or national level — they suddenly became 
our enemies. I just couldn't understand that and why we had to at- 
tack certain people. 

Of course, there wa« an explanation given to me which I was sup- 
posed to understand, but I couldn't. 

Mr. PoTiTiR. Wliat were the issues when you ran for senate on the 
Communist Party ticket? What were the issues that the Communist 
Party used in that campaign, do you recall ? 

Mr. Dunn. I think it was mostly housing at that particular time. 
Housing and there was the return of the GI's. 

Mr. PoTi'ER. Bring the GI's home ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Potter. In the course of your campaign, was there any effort 
to sell the people of your district that only by voting the Communist 
Party ticket could these things be achieved ? 

Mr. Dunn. No, I don't think so. I think that they just said, that 
is what they stood for. 

Mr. Potter. Was there much of a concerted campaign? 

Mr. Dunn. As I recall, I don't think there was. 

Mr. Jackson. You didn't have as rough a campaign as Mr. Kyan 
did? 

Mr. Dunn. Mr. Ryan had a real rough campaign. I remember 
that well. 

Mr. Jackson. Was this the same area and had to do with tlie same 
organization, as in the Ryan campaign ? 

Mr. Dunn. That is right. 

Mr. Potter. The Ryan campaign in what year ? That was 2 years 
before. 

Mr. Dunn. 1944. 

Mr. Potter. And when you ran, it was 1946. 

Mr. Dunn. You see, the fourth senatorial district is within the 
boundaries of the Thirteenth Congi^essional District. That is what 
confuses a lot of peo})le. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dunn, you were in the Communist Party from 
1941 up until 1946 or 1947. During that period of time you, of course, 
became acquainted with a great many persons who were members of 



2790 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

the Communist Party. I would like to ask you to identify additional 
persons, persons in addition to those you have already identified, if 
you can. 

I think in each of the instances, I questioned you regarding Com- 
munist Party membership of persons at the time you became a mem- 
ber of the cell at Cadillac, and at the time you were a member of the 
section. But I have not asked you about a wider and broader mem- 
bership in the party. 

So 1 would like you now to give me the names of additional persons 
known to you to have been members of the party, that is, the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, there is one thing that we should have perfectly 
clear: That the Communist Party and the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation were two separate entities, shall I say ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. When I said "Communist Party," I meant 
both the Communist Party and tlie Communist Political Association. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I really think that is unfair because you could 
recruit people into the Communist Political Association that you 
couldn't recruit into the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any person who was a member of 
the Communist Political Association, who did not affiliate liimself witli 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. I knew quite a few of them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I think you should distinguish in identifying 
these persons, between those who were members of the political associ- 
ation, the Communist Political Association, and the Communist Party. 

Mr. Dunn. That is pretty much of a task. I have no list. Have you 
got a list of names there? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have some names I will ask you about, if you can- 
not name any, but I would prefer for you to endeavor to recall from 
your own recollection the names of any persons who were in the Com- 
munist Party or in the Communist Political Association, identifying 
them according to the organization to which they belonged. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, Barbara Wilson was a member of the Communist 
Political Association. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the first name ? 

Mr. Dunn. Barbara. 

Mr. Tavenner. Barbara Wilson ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Anna Kelly, Reva Hedstone, James Anderson, Thomas Anderson, 
Arthur McPhaul. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Arthur McPhaul a member of the Communist 
Party or the Commrnist Political Association, or both? 

Mr. Dunn. When I was associated with him, it was the Communist 
Political Association, I am pretty sure. 

Mildred Asslin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name please ? 

Mr. Dunn. A-s-s-1-i-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she known by the name "Midge" ? 

Mr. Dunn. That is correct. 

Andy Lancey, Izzy Burnstein,^ Mary Bray. 



' Correct listing : Isadore Berenson. 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2791 

Mr. Tavenxer. You referred to a person by the name of Izzy Burn- 
stein. Are you certain that is the last name? Are you certain the 
last name is correct? 

Mr. Dunn. That is what I always thought it was. He used to sell 
the Michigan Worker on the corner of Michigan and Griswold. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how he was employed ? 

Mr. Dunn. I think that was his employment. 

Mr, Tavenner, Did he have any other employment that you know 
of? 

Mr. Dunn. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with the name Berenson, B-e-r-e-n- 
s-o-n ? 

Mr. Dunn. Xo. . 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mr. Dunn. Carl Turner, Felix Miller, Tim Shay, Katherine Ryp- 
kin [Ripken]. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name? 

Mr. Dunn. R-y-p-k-i-n. Betty Ireland. I just can't think of these 
names. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Pat Toohey? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'t:nner. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavi:nner. What position did he hold in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. He was the organizer in this district. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Ann Beiswenger? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I assume she w^as. She used to come to party 
functions and I assume she was. I never saw her card or anything; 
like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. The party functions to which you refer, were they 
closed meetings of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Meetings at which non- Communists were not en- 
titled to attend ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, the only thing is, maybe a new recruit would be 
brought in and signed up there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with her husband, Hugo 
Beiswenger ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Dunn. I assume so. Well, I know he was, because he ran on 
the State ticket. 1 think he ran for State senator when I ran — no, he 
ran for United States Senator when I ran for State senator. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it for the Senate, in your opinion ; the United 
States Senate ? 

Mr. Dunn. I am pretty sure that that is what it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sit in closed Communist Party meetings 
with him ? 



2792 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Dunn. I can't say that I did. 
Mr. Jackson. Did he run on the Communist ticket? 
Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

ISIr. Jackson. Has anyone except a Communist ever run on the Com- 
munist Party ticket, to the best of your knowledge? 

Mr. Dunn. I don't know. That is something I am quite ignorant 

of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nat Ganley ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he hold any office in the party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, he probably did, but I couldn't tell you offhand 
what that office was, I knew he was a functionary in the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Nelson Davis? 

Mr. Dunn. I met Nelson Davis about twice, and he was a member 
of the Communist Political Association at that time. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with John Gallo? 

Mr. Dunn. I met him once, I think. 

INIr. TA^^NNER. Where? 

Mr. Dunn. I think it was in the West Side section, section No. 2, 
just prior to the time that the Ford sections split away 

Mr. Tavenner. When you speak of "section," you mean of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to my recollection of your testimony, 
that was prior to the formation of the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation? 

Mr. Dunn. That is right. 

Mr. Ta^-enner. Were you acquainted with Elinor Laffery Cook? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a person known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Dunn. I am pretty sure at the time I knew her, she was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Political Association. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what club she was a member of ? 

Mr. Dunn. The Midtown Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with her husband, Maurice 
Cook? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

INIr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Dunn. He was a member of the Connnunist Political Associa- 
tion, in the same club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Irving Riskin? 

Mr. Dunn. Very slightly. 

IVIr. Tavenner. Was he a person known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Part}' or the Communist Political Association? 

Mr. Dunn. I am pretty sure he was ;i member of the association. 

Mr. MouEDER. Was that the time the party was operating as a po- 
litical association instead of under the name of Communist Party? 

Mr. Ta^^enner. That is correct. 

Mr. Dunn. The party was not operating at that time. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2793 

Mr. Moulder. It was not operating under the name of the Com- 
munist Party, but it was still operating under the name of the Com- 
munist Political Association ; isn't that the way I understand it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. It was the same thing, was it not? The same people 
belonged. 

Mr. Dunn. No ; not necessarily. 

Mr. ]\IouLDEK. Those who were members of the Communist Party 
transferred their association and activity to the Communist Political 
Association and operated under that name instead of the Communist 
Party ; is that the Avay I understand it ? 

Mr. Dunn. The Communist Political Association was a big associa- 
tion. There were a lot of people in it. All they had to do wtis pay 50 
cents and become a member. That's a different thing than joining the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. In that connection, as far as the basic doctrines of the 
party were concerned, with perhaps the single exception of the dif- 
ference at that time, as between the line that Browder was following 
and the line being followed internationally, the basic teachings of the 
party and of the political association were still founded upon Marx 
and Engels, were they not ? 

Mr. DuNx. Marx and Lenin, you mean. 

Mr. Jackson. Marx and Lenin. 

Mr. Dunn. There was very little teaching that went on. 

Mr. Jackson. What teaching there was, what precepts were laid 
down in instruction, were still based upon the works of the propliets^ 
so to speak ? 

Mr. Dunn. I disagree with you there. During the period of the 
associatiori 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; during the period of the political association 
the manifesto, for instance, was no longer considered a basic doctrine 
for members of the political association. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I can't recall anybody actually saying that, but 
I know the party members even quit calling themselves "comrades" 
and used to say "ladies and gentlemen" at the meetings, and "Mr. 
Chairman," and stulT like that. 

Mr. Jackson. It made it a lot less conspiratorial. I will not inter- 
rupt counsel an}^ further. 

Mr. AVooD. Counsel may proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Joe Bernstein ? 

Mr. Dunn. I think I saw him a few times. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where ? 

jVIr. Dunn. At the Communist Party headquarters. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what position he held in the Com- 
munist Party, if any ? 

Mr. Dunn. I think he was the dues secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same person who appeared on the witness 
stand this morning? 

Mr. Dunn. I am almost sure it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. You saw the person who answered to the name of 
Joe Bernstein ; did you not ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes; but I mean this is a long time ago that I saw this 
man. I know I have changed quite a bit in that period and other peo- 
ple could change, too. 



2794 COMMUNISM IX THE DKTROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavkxxkh. Is there any doul)t in your mind that it is the same 
person ? That is what I am tryin<r to determine. 

Mr. DuNX'. Tliere coukl be a doubt in my mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there a doubt ? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes ; there is a doubt in my mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how the Joe Bernstein that you knew 
was em])loyed at the time that you are speaking of, when he was the 
dues secretary of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. No; as I said, I only met him — I only met this man 
twice. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you acquire knowledge at this time of the 
nature of his employment? 

Mr. Dux^N. This man was the dues secretary of the party and that's 
all I knew about him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Tom X. Dombrowski? 

Mr. Dunn. I met him a few times; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Dunn, At party functions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Fred Williams ? 

Mr. DuN^N. I met him a few times, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. "VAHiere? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I met Williams mostly in relation to the labor 
movement. Maybe a caucus would be called and a group of labor 
leaders would meet and discuss the problems. That's how I met Wil- 
liams. I understand he was a business agent of some East Side local 
at tlie time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet him in connection with anv 
Communist Party matters? 

Mr. Dunn. No; I don't think I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe that is all. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Dunn, it has always been the policy of this com- 
mittee to appreciate the full cooperation of witnesses and their testi- 
mony, when tliey come in good faith before tlie committee and reveal 
all they know about communism and its organizations in this country. 

A moment ago you mentioned a difference between the Political 
Action Committee — is that the name of it? 

Mr. Dunn. The Communist Political Association. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. You say that there were people in that who 
w'ere not members of the Communist Party. You mean, they were 
not card-carrying members but they did attend meetings at Com- 
munist headcpiarters, just as those wiio did carrv cards did, did thev 
not? 

Mr. Dunn. I don't think you have the riglit conception of what 
happened. When the party went out of existence and they created 
this Communist Political Association, there were no longer the 
branches like there were in the i)arty. There were large clubs. The 
Midtown Club w\as a large Communist Political Association club, and 
its functions were completely different from the Comnnmist Party. It 
was a large club, doing neighborhood work, doing ]^olitical action 
among all kinds of people. They didn't have an independent role. 

Mr. Moulder. There is just one more comment I wish to make in 
connection with your testimony. 

I was interested in and deeply impressed with your statement on 
your camj^aign for election to senator, when you observed that ap- 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA • 2795 

parently, in your opinion, the Communist propaganda and efforts to 
interest the Negro people in the Communist Party was not very 
effective. 

Mr. Dunn. That is what I gathered ; yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Previous investigations and hearings conducted on 
the part of this committee have revealed, and I believe I am right — 
if not, the members of the committee can correct me — that a lesser 
number of Negro people in proportion to population have been misled 
into the Communist Pixrty movement than any other people. That 
this great people who have contributed so much to our higher standard 
of liviuL^ have not fallen for the propaganda promulgated by the 
Communist Party leaders. In fact, I think the records of this com- 
mittee reveal that, in many instances. Communist agitators planned 
and promoted to incite riots and violence among the Negro people 
to make it appear that they were being discriminated against, when 
the evidence and records of this committee show that the Communists 
themselves incited such violence and riots so as to try to impress the 
Negro people with the fact that they were being discriminated against 
and that they should become memlDers of the Communist movement, 
all of which.' according to the records of this committee, has failed. 

1 was impressed very much by your personal experience and observa- 
tion in connection with that point. 

That is all, Mr. Chaii-nuin. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, with still further reference to the 
Communist Political Association. 

Is it not true, Mr. Dunn, that while the outward scenic effect of the 
changeover from the Communist Party to the Communist Political 
Association might have been all right as window dressing, that the 
Marcantonio's and Hisses and Chambers' and the rest of the espionage 
courier system was not in the slightest degree influenced by the window 
dressing? They went on about the basic task and the end goals of 
the Communist Party, as they always operated. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I can just tell you what I saw with my own eyes. 

Mr. Jackson. I don't think the idea should get abroad that this 
was just one great big social affair, the Communist Political Associa- 
tion, because very frankl}-, it is the first time the distinction has been 
made since I have been on the committee. 

A member of the Connnunist Political Association who takes the 
witness stand and refuses to answer is just as vehement in his denials 
if he makes denials, and he is just as abusive toward the committee 
and toward the American Congress, as a member of the Communist 
Party. 

That distinction does not appear to be made in the mind of the wit- 
nesses themselves. I was rather interested in the fac t that it was 
made today. 

Mr. Dunn. Mr. Chairman, do 5'ou mind if I bring one point out 
in connection with this ? 

Mr. Wood. Please, ]Mr. Dunn. 

Mr. Dunn. In the Communist Political Association, it was a well- 
known fact that a club might get 10 new members, say today, and 

2 or 3 days later they would Cjuit and then they would rejoin again 
and quit. This went on all during the period of its existence. 



2796 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Jacfvsox. Were n)eetin<j:s of the Coiniiiunist Political Associa- 
tion open to iioiiineinbers of the <rroup ( 

Mr. Dunn. Yes; at almost every meeting it Avas open to nonniem- 
bers. 

Mr. Jackson. Just like nei<2jhborliood meetings, and anyone who 
wanted to go in could take part in the discussion ? 

Mr. Dunn. Usually, the Communist Political Association used to 
liold the meetings in order to attract new members, by inviting people 
to the meetings to try to sell them wliat they were trying to do. 

Mr. Jackson. What about the closed meetings? There were, of 
course, closed meetings to which admission was only by membership 
in the Communist Political Association. 

Mr. Dunn. Unless these closed meetings would be the hierarchy of 
the association, where they would liave meetings that would be closed 
to discuss policy or sometliing like that 

Ml-. Jackson. Out of your experience in the Communist Party, 
would you say — now^, of course, you are on the other side of the fence 
engaged in law and order — would you say it is a fair statement to say 
that the Communist Party is a rigid, monolithic structure in which 
no deviation is possible from the directives which are received from 
higher echelons, for the individual. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, from what has happened recently, I have come 
to the conclusion that it is. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you say that the average members of the Com- 
munist Party or any member of the Communist Party has any freedom 
of speech? Now, there are two kinds of freedom of speech. One is 
to agree — that is, freedom to agree — and on the other hand, there is 
the other freedom of speech where you are free to disagree and debate 
and challenge. 

Does freedom of speecli, as we know it under the Constitution, and 
freedom of speech frequently indulged in before the committee, and 
rightfully so ; does that exist in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, 1 luive never seen an instance yet when a party 
member did not have the right to say his piece, but after he said it 
and they take a vote on whatever particular questions have been under 
discussion, he has not the right to keep his opinion. That is demo- 
cratic centralism, as they call it. He has to go along with it, whether 
he agrees or not. 

Mr. Jackson. Is it a fair statement to make, and it certainly has 
been made a great many times before the committee in testimony, that 
there is every reason to believe that the actions of the Comnuinist 
Party in the United States, and the actions of the individual members 
of the Communist Party of the United States, are directed, not from 
within this country, but from abroad ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I couldn't answer that question, because I was 
never in the party when any of that direction would be necessary. 

Mr. Jackson. You were in the party at the time of the Duclos 
letters? 

Mr. Dunn. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you say the Duclos letters originated from 
outside the country and made a basic doctrine for American Com- 
munists? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, the suggestion came from France, but I couldn't 
at all sav that I believe it was a directive. 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2797 

Mr. Jackson. Well, I don't believe Mr. Duclos wrote it either, but 
the fact was that it originated from outside the country and that most 
of the directives — I do not ask you to concur in this or not to concur- 
practically all, if not all, the basic directives of the Communist Party 
originated with a foreign power, and were handed down through the 
various echelons and commands of the Communist Party, and every 
Communist is expected to abide by the decisions, which are thus 
lianded down. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, what I am trying to say is this: That I have 
never seen anything concrete along that line. 

Mr. Jackson. I don't imagine you Avould, probably in the normal 
course of events. At least we have had very few Avitnesses wlio have 
actually seen any of the directives they have carried out. I think that 
is characteristic of the operation. 

I have no further questions, ISIr. Chairman. 

Mr. Poii-ER. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, further commenting on the subject 
that 1 mentioned a moment ago, that is, about the American Negro, 
who lias, in my opinion, contributed so much to our progress and 
our liigher standard in living in tliis country in many fields, accord- 
ing to my memory, since I have been a member of this committee, I 
have never known a Negro being called before the committee who has 
failed to fully cooperate or who lias refused to answer questions on 
the protection or on the ground that his constitutional rights were 
being violated, and that it might tend to incriminate him in some- 
thing. 

Do you have any other information concerning the efforts on the 
part of the Communist organizations, of which you have knowledge, 
of their concentrating their work on trying to deceive and mislead the 
colored people into the Communist movement ? 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I have not belonged to the party for 

Mr. Moulder. At the time you did belong, Mr. Dunn. 

Mr. Dunn. No, I couldn't contribute anything on that. 

Mr. jNIoulder. Then you have no knowledge of their efforts along 
that line ? 

Mr. Dunn. No. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, that is all I have. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to point out to the witness one matter 
which he may have knowledge of. 

In referring to the attitude of the Communist Political Association 
as distinguished from that of the Communist Party, is it not true 
that during the period of about a year while the Communist Political 
Association was in existence, that it was under the leadership of Earl 
Browder, and that the only really basic distinction in theory was, 
that Earl Browder and the political association took tlie view that 
communism and capitalism could exist together, but that the real 
basis for the Duclos letter was that the Communist Party was degrad- 
ing in this country, and that it should revert to its old, and we might 
say revolutionary, principles. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I would like to tell you an incident wliere Earl 
Browder came to Detroit, and I think it was the Midtown or Down- 
town Club held a cabaret party for him. He spoke at the cabaret 
party. 



2798 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Tlie Communist Political Association named the club and invited the 
public. Thei-e were probably 500 or 600 people at that cabaret. The 
Communist Party would never do a thing: like that. 

Mr. Tavenxer. The Communist Party has open meetings to which 
the public is invited and at which the leaders amonof the party are 
frequently speakers. 

We have had testimony here and my recollection is that Mr. O'Hair, 
who testified yesterday, was recruitect into the Communist Party and 
not the Connnunist Political Association, lint the Communist Party, 
as the result of a public rally that was held here in the city of Detroit. 
I believe Earl Browder himself was the speaker at that very occasion. 

Mr. Dunn. I recall that meeting at the Graystone Ballroom. I 
think it was the Communist Political Association. I think Mr. O'Hair 
was in error. 

Mr. Tavennek. Mr. O'Hair has testified at great detail as to the 
period in which he joined the party, namely, 1943. The Communist 
Political Association did not come into being until well into 1944 and 
disbanded in October 1945. 

Mr. Dunn. Well, I am probably wrong then. I got my dates mixed 
up. 

Mr. Tavenner. My recollection from reading the testimony of Toby 
Baldwin, which was taken in Washington just within the past few^ 
weeks, was that she, too, was recruited into the Communist Party as 
the result of just such a meeting, or possibly it was the same meeting 
when Mr. O'Hair was brought into the party in 1943. There was not 
the distinction, it would appear, which you have made in regard to 
the two organizations. I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused. May we express our apprecia- 
tion for coming here, and you may be excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee will call as its next witness, Mr. 
Rafael Haskell. 

TESTIMONY OF RAFAEL HASKELL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

C. LeBRON SIMMONS 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Haskell. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented here by counsel ? 

Mr. Haskeij:.. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record, in- 
cluding his business address. 

Mr. SiiNiMONs. My name is C. LeBron Simmons, 565 Gratiot Avenue. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Haskell, you are at liberty to confer as often as you 
may desire in the course of your testimony and get such information 
and advice as you may wish. Counsel is at liberty to so advise you, 
if he thinks it is proper. 

Mr. Haskell. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement I would like to 
read into the record. 

Mr. Wood. Just file it M'ith the clerk. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2799 

Mr. Haskell. I would like to read it into the record and state the 
reason why. 

Mr. Wood. This committee does not have statements read. I thought 
I made that perfectly clear. If you desire to file your statement, we 
w^ill be glad to consider it. 

Mr. Haskell. I would like to file it, but I would like to state the 
reason why I would like to read it. 

Mr. Wood. Hand it to the reporter. 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you please state your full name? 

Mr. Haskell. Eafael'W. Haskell. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Haskell? 

Mr. Haskell. I was born in New York City in 1915. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. Haskell. Approximately, I believe, it is around 15 years, more 
or less. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, what your 
educational training has been. 

Mr. Haskell. Elementary school, secondary school, and the uni- 
versity. 

Mr. Tavenner. What university? 

Mr. Haskell. I went to the University of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline briefly, for the committee what 
your record of employment has been in the past 10 years ? 

Mr. Haskell. Since leaving the University of Michigan, I have 
been a factory worker employed in different factories. 

Mr. Tavenner. Beginning approximately what date? 

Mr. Haskell. I would say around approximately 1939. I don't 
remember the exact date. I might be off. 

Mr. Wood. When did you leave the University of Michigan ? 

Mr. Haskell. Tliat is what I am trying to think of, the exact date. 
I believe it was 1939 that I left. 

Mr. Tavenner. What date did you give ? 

Mr. Haskell. About 1939, as I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the completion of your educational train- 
ing, were you a member of the Young Communist League ? Let me 
state this, before you answer the question : The committee is informed 
that the Detroit Free Press in an article dated October 1937 reported 
you as having been a member of the Young Communist League. Were 
you a member of the Young Conimunist League at any time, prior to 
your graduation or since? 

Mr. Haskell. I am not going to answer that question, basing myself 
on the privileges granted me under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have stated that you have accepted various 
employment since leaving school, and I did not follow through on 
that. Will you state what employment you had? 

Mr. Haskell. I have stated that they were factory Jobs. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Haskell. In Detroit and elsewhere — no, let me think back — 
they were in Detroit proper. 

Mr. Tavenner. With what factories ? 

Mr. Haskell. I was employed for a while with the Chicago Pneu- 
matic Tool Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what period of time ? 

Mr. Haskell. I don't remember the exact date ? 



2800 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you ^ve the dates, approximately? 

Mr. Haskell. I would say from around 1939 to around 1949, about. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to 1939, how were you employed? 

Mr. Haskell. T was unemployed when I got the job with the Chi- 
cago Pneumatic. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your employment prior to 1939? 

Mr. Haskell. I said I was unemployed at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood exactly what you said. Prior to the 
employment wdiicli you obtained in 1939, wluit was your employment? 

Mr. Haskell. I don't recollect any job I had between that day and 
leaving the university. I might have had some employment but I 
don't recollect it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. After 1949, how were you em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Haskell. I have already stated I worked in a factory. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please tell us what factory ? 

Mr. Haskell. I don't see the relevance of what particular plant I 
worked in. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have any objection to giving the information 
as to where you worked? 

Mr. Haskell. Most certainly, I do. 

Mr. Wood. You do? 

Mr. Haskell. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. If you feel that you will jeopardize yourself in any pos- 
sible prosecution, you are at liberty to decline, if in your opinion to 
give the information would tend to incriminate you. 

Mr. Haskell. I have every objection to giving it because of what 
has been done around this committee. Every witness that has been 
brought here 

Mr. Wood. The committee does not regard that as a reason. 

Mr. Haskell. Maybe the committee doesn't, but I consider my 
job 

Mr. Wood. Will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Haskell What was the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed after 1949? 

Mr. Haskell. What was the question? Will you repeat it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question? 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. Haskell. You mean what was the job I held immediately on 
leaving the Chicago Pneumatic Tool Co.? I worked for the Gear 
Grind. 

Mr. Tavenner. For whom ? 

Mr. Haskell. Gear Grind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? Here in the city of Detroit? 

Mr. Haskell. I believe it is in Detroit, it might not be. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment? 

Mr. Haskell. Factory work. I ran a machine. 

Mr. Tavenner. The factory is in Detroit? 

Mr. Haskell. That is light. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where is the factory located? 

Mr. Haskell. Close to Conant. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there, or have you 
been employed there? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2801 

Mr. Haskki.i.. I was employed tiieie for about a year, I would say. 
1 don't remember tlie exact time element. 

Mr. Tavkxxek. Where were you next employed? In other words, 
what other employment have you had since 19J:9? 

Mr. Haskell. I was then employed by Berry Industries. I was 
then employed by Dial Machine Co. 

Mr. Tavenxkk. Have you had any othei- employment of any char- 
acter since 1041)? 

Mv. Haskell. 1 have not. 

Mr. Tavexxeh. AVere you in New York City during 1087, at any 
time ? 

Mr. SiMMOXs. May I ask the pertinency of that qupstion? 

Mr. Tavexxek. No. 

Mr. Haskell. In that case. I will refuse to answer on the basis 
of the privileges I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxek. Did you attend the meeting of the Communist 
League, the Young Conununist League, in New York City, in May 
of 1937? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answer that question on the basis 
of the privileges I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexx-^ek. Are you now a member of the Conununist Party? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answer that question on the basis 
of the privileges I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. AVere you issued a (^ommunist Party card in 1939, 
bearing the number 101207 ? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answer that question on the basis 
of the privileges I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you acquainted with a board of the Communist 
Party known as the expulsion board? Have you ever heard of that? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answer that question on the grounds 
already stated. 

]\Ii'. Ta\t.xxer. Have you ever been a member of such a board of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answ^er that question. 

Mr. Ta'S'exx'er. There has been testimony here, Mr. Haskell, that 
Communist Party meetings were held above the Detroit Workers' 
Cooperative Restaurant in Hamtramck, Mich. Have you ever 
atended Communist Party meetings at that place ? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Ta\'exner. Are you acquainted with Toby Baldwin? 

Mr. Haskell. I will decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tam^.xxer. Have you ever been an instructor at the Michigan 
School of Social Science? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question on the ground 
that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavexxer, Mr. Haskell, I show you a catalog of the Michi- 
gan School of Social Sicence for the winter term beginning January 
23, and through March 31, 1950, and ask you to look at page 7, and 
state wdiether or not you find a course described there as "Principles 
of Maxism-Leninism II." 

(Document was handed to witness.) 



2802 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do yon see it? It is on page 7. 

Mr. Haskell. Yes, I see page 7. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you see the course described there, which I men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Haskell. Yes ; I see it. 

Mr. Tamsxx-^er. Do you see wlio the instructors are ? The instruc- 
tors named for that course i Will you read their names, please. 

Mr. Haskell. The names I see, is one instructor, Thomas X. Dom- 
broAvski, and the second instructor is Eay Haskell. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Mr. Dombrowski ? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you the Ray Haskell referred to? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you commonly known by the name "Ray" 
Haskell ? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What is the ground for your refusal to answer that 
question ? 

Mr. HxVSkell. That, too, I will decline to answer on the grounds 
that answering it might tend to — at any rate, I will request the privi- 
leges extended me under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you return that to me, please ? Will you please 
look again at the catalog, and this time at page number 3, and read into 
the record, please, the names of the directors of this school ? 

Mr. Hasivell. Am I supposed to just read from this? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, just exactly what is on the paper. 

Mr. Haskell. I see on page 3 in upper case, "Board of Directors. 
Christopher C. Alston, Nat Ganley, Dorothy Griffel, James E. Jack- 
son, Jr., William McKie, Fred Williams, Executive Director, Ann 
Beiswenger, Office 2419 Grand River, Room 7, WO 5-5930," and page 
3. That is all that is coutained on the page. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you tell the committee what you know, if any- 
thing, regarding the purposes for the foundation of this school, and 
how it was operated. 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer, basing myself on the privileges 
extended me under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Have you any knowledge of the manner in which 
the instructors are selected or those who receive courses are admitted 
to the school ? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I desire to offer the catalog in evidence, to be marked 
"Haskell Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be so marked and received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Haskell Exhibit No. 1" 
and received in evidence.) 

]\Ir. Tavexxer. I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Do any of the committee have any questions ? 

Mr. Moulder. Are you now employed, Mr. Haskell ? 

Mr. Haskell. I am employed at the Dial INIachine Co. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you a member or affiliated with any political 
party ? 

Mr. Haskell. I decline to answer that basing myself on the privi- 
leges I have under the fifth amendment to our Constitution. 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2803 

VlV. ]\rouLDER. Tliat is all. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have any questions, jSIr. Jackson ? 

INIr. Jackson. Is^one, except to say that there is nothing incriminat- 
mg about having- an affiliation with a political party. I have no ques- 
tions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter, Mr. Haskell, I have no questions, but your testimony 
here today is evidence that television of programs such as this should 
exist so that as many people as possible would see the hate in the eyes, 
the contempt on the lips, and the conspiracy in the heart of a Com- 
munist. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenxer. Xo further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused from any f urtlier testimony before the committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner, Xo, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused. 

( The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. We will take a short recess. 

(A short recess was taken). 

Mr. Wood. We will please come to order. You may proceed, Mr. 
Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee will call Mr. Plugo Beiswenger. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemly swear that the evidence you, give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Beiswengf:r. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

TESTIMONY OF HUGO BEISWENGER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, HAROLD NORRIS 

Mr. Beiswenger. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel will please identify himself for the record and 
give his business address. 

Mr. NoRRis. Mv name is Harold Norris, a member of the Michigan 
Bar, 968 Penobscott Building, Detroit. 

Mr. Wood. If you have not heard the announcement previously, I 
will tell you again, you are at liberty to confer with your counsel at 
any time you. desire for such information and advice you deem neces- 
sary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state your full name? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I have a statement I would like to read. 

^Ir. Wood. You are at liberty to file any statement you have with the 
clerk for reference by the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Hugo Beiswenger. 

]Mr. Beiswenger. Yes; I would like to file this statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you l)orn, Mr. Beiswenger? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I* was born in Jackson, Mich., January 8, 1917. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline for the committee your edu- 
cation and background. 

97097—52— pt. 1 7 



2804 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Beiswenger. I am a graduate of Jackson High School, Jack- 
son Junior College. I also attended some trade schools in the Army, 
aircraft mechanic school, aerial gunnery school, radio school, and 
after I got out of the Army, the Detroit Radio and Television School. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you in the armed services of the 
United States? 

Mr. Beiswenger. From March 1942 until September 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your college training ? 

Mr. Beiswengeb. I believe it was 1935 or 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Beiswenger? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I live at 7485 Parkland, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit? 

Mr. Beiswenger. Approximately 13 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the connnittee, please, what your 
employment has been while you have lived in Detroit, other than the 
period when you were in the Armed Forces of the United States ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question, invoking my 
privileges under the fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that cover the whole period of your employ- 
ment over 13 years, other than the period you were in the Army ? I 
mean, do you decline to answer anything regarding your employment 
at any time during the past 13 years, other than the period you were 
in the Army ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVell, then, will you please state what your eni- 
ployment was during the period of time that you are willing to state it. 

Mr. Beiswenger. In these dates I mention, it will have to be 
approximate. 

Mr. Tavenner. That will be satisfactory. 

Mr. Beiswenger. I worked at the Acme Die Casting Co., a small 
auto shop in Detroit, either in 1934 or 1935, for a few months. I 
worked for the F. E. R. A. while going through college, to pay my 
tuition 

Mr. Tavenner. You need not go back to the period of your educa- 
tional training. 

Mr. Beiswenger. I worked at the Walker Michigan Co., in Jack- 
son, Mich., in 1936 and 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other employment in 1936 and 
1937? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I worked at the Hotel Hayes for a few months 
in 1936, as a room clerk and cashier. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that comprise all of your employment during 
the years 1936 and 1937? 

Mr. Beiswenger. As far as I can recall ; yes. 

Mr. Tavt<:nner. Will you proceed. 

Mr. Beiswenger. I was employed, if you want to call it that, by the 
National Youth Administration, in 1938, doing library work. I en- 
tered the Army, as I said before, in 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed betAveen 1938 and 1942. 
when you went into the Army ? 

Mr. liEiswENGER. I decline to answer that question, invoking my 
privileges under the <ifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your discharge from the 
Army ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2805 

Mr. Besswenger. It was September 1945. 

Mr. Tavexnek, Did you return inunediately to Detroit? 

]Mr. Beiswenger. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenxer. What business did you enp;a<re in on your return? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I took a course at tlie Detroit Kadio and Tele- 
vision School under the GI bill of rights, shortly after my return 
from the Army. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Then what was your first employment after that? 

Mr. Beiswexger. At the Detrola Radio Corp., where I went to 
work in February 11)40, and where I worked until August, I believe, 
1916. 

Mr. Taat:x^xer. That employment was followed by what employ- 
ment ( 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question, invoking my 
privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenxer. That begins in 1946, in August 1946. Now, what 
employment did 3^011 next have which you are willing to state that 
you engaged in? 

Mr. Beiswex'^ger. I don't recall. Well, I did some radio repair 
work at home at various times, I believe in the year 1947. 

Mr. Tavex^ner. Is that the only employanent you have had since. 
August 1946. which you are willing to tell us about? 

Mr. Beisw^enger. As far as I am able to recall ; yes. 

Mr. Ta\^xx"er. Are you now employed? 

Mr. Beiswenger. Before the current wutch hunt and hysteria be- 
gan, I was employed, but I was fired from my job. I am now looking 
for a job. 

Mr. Taa'enx^er. Where were you employed ? 

Mr. Beisw^enger. I decline to answer that question, based on the 
same reasons as previously given. 

Mr. Tavenx-^er. Where clid you live in 1951? Have you lived at 
the same place all the time since you have been in Detroit ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not tell us where you lived. 

Mr. Beiswenger. I live at my present address — I have lived there 
for, I believe. 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenx^er. That address is what? 

Mr. Beisa\t:xger. 7485 Parkland. 

yir. Ta VEX^NER. What is your phone number ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. Logan 3-7716. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Your wife's name is Ann? 

Mr. Beiswenger. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you sought 
enqdoyment with General Motors Corp. under the name of Henry 
James Braun ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question, invoking the 
same privileges as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you what purports to be the original of an 
application for employment with General Motors, bearing date of 
August 8, 1951. Do you recall having executed such an application? 

(The document above mentioned was handed to tlie witness.) 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question foi- tlie previously 
stated reason. 



2806 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will 3011 examiue the application, which I have 
hiuided you and state whether or not it is in the name of Henry James 
Braun. I think the name appears on the hrst line. Henry James 
B-r-a-n-n. 

Mr. Beiswexger. I read a document which purports to be an appli- 
cation for employment to the Detroit transmission division of General 
Motors Corp., and it has a name ou it, Henry James Braun, 

Mr. Tavexxer. Is the name of the wife of the person mentioned 
listed on the application, and if so, will you give the first name. })lease. 

Mr. Beisavexger. The name which appears on the application is 
Mrs. Anne Braun. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you state what address is given. 

Mr. Beiswexger. 7485 Parkland. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Was that your address? 

Mr. Beiswexger. This document has the address, 7485 Parkland. 
I previously answered the question that my address is 7485 Parkland. 

Mv. Tavexxer. Did anybody by the name of Henry James Braun 
live in your apartment with yon ? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question, invoking the 
same privilege, 

Mr, Tavexxer. What ])hone number is given in the application? 

Mr. Beiswex^ger. Logan 3-7716. 

Mr. Tavexxeij. That is the same phone number at your a]xirtment. 

Mr. Beiswexgi:r, I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated reasons. 

Mr, Wood, Hasn't the witness already given that? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. What is your social-security number? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I will have to get it out. I have it with me, 367- 
07-2040. 

JVIr. Ta\T5Xxer. Have you any other social-security number? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds, 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you let me examine the security card which 
you just read from? 

Mr, Beiswexger, Yes, 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you have an additional social-security card be- 
sides this one? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the same 
basis as previously given. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you acquainted with the person by the name of 
Robert Montgomery ? 

]\Ir. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Does the name Robert INIontgomery appear on the 
api^lication as a reference made by the person who signed that appli- 
cation? 

Mr. Beiswexger. This document which purports to be the applica- 
tion has written on it the name Robert INIontgomery. 

INIr. Tavexxer. Did you ever give Robert Montgomery as a refer- 
i^ence in an application to obtain any position ? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. AVere you ever employed by the Erie Equipment 
Co.? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2807 

Mr. Beisavenger. I decline to answer the question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner, Did the applicant in the application before you give 
the Erie Equipment C^o. as a place of prior employment? 

Mr. Beiswengee. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you seek employment by executing that appli- 
cation in the name of Henry James Braun? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the signature of Henry James Braun signed 
by you? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the pre- 
viously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. jNIr. Beiswenger, I hand you a catalogue of the 
Michigan School of Social Science for the fall and winter term — the 
fall term of 1949 and winter term of 1950 — which has already been 
introduced in evidence, and I will ask you to examine it. I believe it 
has been marked "Haskell exhibit No. 1." Will you turn, please, to 
the list of subjects taught, on page 9, I believe? There, do you see a 
course entitled "Dialectic Materialism II?" 

Mr. Beiswenger. Is that a question? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Beisa\t:nger. I read a line of printing in this document which 
purports to be the catalog of the Michigan School of Social Science, a 
line which reads "Dialetic Materialism II." 

Mr. Taat^nner. The subject, Dialectic Materialism, is a very deep 
subject, is it not ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever made a study of dialectic mate- 
rialism? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment and on the grounds of the first amendment, 
that anything I study I have a right to do, which is guaranteed me by 
the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. I am anxious to know — first, I should ask you to read 
the name of the instructor in that subject of dialectic materialism at 
the school mentioned, the Michigan School of Social Science. 

Mr. Beiswenger. This line of printing reads: "Instructor, Hugo 
Beiswenger." 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat year was that and was it for the fall term or 
was it for the winter term ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Did you conduct the course mentioned there ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is anxious to learn, Mr. Beiswenger, 
how the instructors in that school were selected and how the school 
was financed, and what supervision was given and by whom of the 
selection of the students. Will you tell the committee anything that 
you know about those matters ? 



^808 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer tliat question on the previously 
stated fjrounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Beiswen<rer, I exliibit to you now a photostatic 
reproduction of a letter dated October 27, 10?)9, addressed to, and I 
quote, "To every member of the Communist Party of Michigan." Will 
you examine it, please? Do you know the circumstances under which 
that letter was prepared and circulated ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated ffrounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you hand me the document ? I offer the docu- 
ment in evidence and ask that it be marked "Beiswenger Exhibit 
No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be so marked and received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Beiswenger Exhibit 
No. 1.") 

IVIr. Tavenner. This exhibit bears the date of October 27, 1039, De- 
troit, Mich. It begins: "Dear Comrade:" The first sentence reads: 
"Comrade Browder issued a warning to the country and to the mem- 
bers of the Communist Party when he said — " and so on. The letter 
closes with the words, "Comrades on the job, comradely yours." Will 
you read, please, the names of those who purportedly signed or author- 
ized the signing of that letter ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. In this purported letter, photostated, I read the 
following names: J. Kowalski, finance director; Robert Reid, organ- 
izer, section 2 ; Richard McMahon, organizer, section 3 ; George 
Kristalsky, organizer, section 4; Hugo Beiswenger, organizer, section 
5; Rifka Lee, organizer, section 6; Francis Walker, organizer, Flint; 
Elmer Jolinson, state secretary; William Allan, legislative secretary; 
Beatrice Shields, educational ; B. E. Gebert, member of national com- 
anittee ; E. Fay, membership director ; Merrill Work, State committee." 

Mr. Tavenner. One of the names you read is B. E. Gebert, member 
of the national committee. Do you know where B. E. Gebert lived 
at the time of the writing of this letter, October 27, 1939 ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he is the same person who is 
now in charge of some phase of labor work with the Polish govern- 
ment in Europe? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

INIr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with Mr. Gebert? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. This letter, which is an appeal for raising funrls by 
the Communist Party of the State of Michigan, would you say is an 
authentic reiiroduction of the original letter which was mailed to the 
Communist Party members in 1939? Can you identify it as such? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mv. Tavenner. At this time in 1939, October 1939, did you reside 
in Detroit or in Jackson, INIich. ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I really do not recall. 

INIr. Tavenner. Mr. Beiswenger, I show you a leaflet issued by the 
Michiaan State Central Committee of the Comnumist Partv, 902 



COMMUXISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2809 

Lawyers Building-, Detroit 26, Mich, and ask you if it is a leaflet 
issued by the organization listed? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

]\[r. Tavexxkr. The leaflet there has on the left of the leaflet a 
photograph of an individual with a caption, "Hugo Beiswenger for 
United States Senator." Is that your photograph? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I see a photograph here which has a name under 
it, "Hugo Beiswenger for United States Senator." 

Mr. Tavexxer. Does it have a resemblance to yourself? 

Ml". l^EiswENGER. That might be a question for debate. 

Mr. Taatrxxer. What is your best judgment about it? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Then you Avould not risk the doubt. Were you a 
candidate for the United States Senate in that year, the year 1946? 

Mr. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Wood. Do you mean to say that you think it would be incrimi- 
nating to run for the United States Senate? 

Mr. Beiswexger. Well, I wouldn't answer that at this time. 

Mr. Ta^tsxxer. Did you become a candidate for Congress from 
the Thirteenth District in 1940 ? 

]\Ir. Beiswexger. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Wood. Mv. Beiswenger, you recognize, of course, that you are 
under oath. When you say that you refuse to answer a question be- 
cause it will tend to incriminate you, it would do just that, or else your 
testimony is not true. Now, do you mean to leave this committee 
under the inference, in your opinion that it will tend to incriminate 
a man to be a candidate for the Congress of the United States? 

Mr. Beiswexger. Mr. Chairman, the words "incriminate" are your 
words, not mine. I did not use them. 

Mr. Wood. Is that what you are claiming, that it would tend to 
incriminate you if you answered imder the fifth amendment or the 
previously stated grounds? What are your grounds? 

Mr. Beisavexger. Mr. Chairman, my statement was that I decline 
to answer the question, invoking my privileges under the fifth amend- 
ment of the Constitution, which I understand is all that is legally re- 
ojiired that I say. 

j\Ir. Wood. Just what provision in the fifth amendment is it that you 
invoke ? 

Mr. Beiswexger. As I understand the fifth amendment, it protects 
the citizens of this country against being forced to testify against 
themselves. 

Mr. Wood. In matters tending to incriminate. 

Mr. Beiswexger. I do not know whether or not these words are in 
the amendment or not. I am not a lawyer. 

Mr. Wood. Seek the advice of your counsel and see if he will not tell 
you that that is what it is. 

Mr. Beiswexger. I have consulted with counsel on that matter, and 
my answer is that I do have reason to fear Federal prosecution under 
the present witch-hunting hysteria and thought-control laws which 



2810 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

exist, and for that reason I decline to answer the question, because I 
am in jeopardy of Federal prosecution. 

Mv. Wood. Let me see if I get you straight. You contend now, 
leaving that your answer to the question, that you feel that a truthful 
answer, whether or not you are a candidate for Congress, might lead 
conceivably to a criminal prosecution against you. 

Mr. Beiswexger. Mr. Chairman, I said nothing about a truthful 
answer. I decline to answer the question, relying upon my privilege 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Beiswenger, the committee is in possession of 
information indicating that you were editor of a newspaper called the 
Michigan Herald, that you were the president of the corporation 
which published it and a member of the editorial board ; is that cor- 
rect ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time either alone or in company 
of another person advise a member of the Communist Party that he 
would be disciplined by the party or possibly expelled if certain ac- 
tions were not taken by him ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. The question is so vague that I have no way of 
identifying what is referred to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall any occasion in which you advised a 
Communist Party member that he might be answerable to higher 
authority in the Communist Party or that he would answer before a 
board of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Ta\t,nner. A moment ago, you said the question was indefinite, 
and you indicated you did not understand it. Are you referring to 
that, namely, that I did not make the question plain enough, or are 
you basing your refusal to answer on some other grounds ? 

jNIr. Beiswenger. I am basing my refusal to answer under the pri- 
vileges I have under the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Nothing further, Mr. Chairman, except to say, Mr. 
Beiswenger, you have referred several times to Avitch hunting and so 
forth. There might not be so many witch hunts if a lot of you people 
would not leave your brooms lying around. The committee has found 
87 Conmiunist branches in the city of Detroit, while after 4 j^ears in 
Los Angeles it did not uncover more than 8 or 10. I think the people 
of this country can well be concerned about the situation in Detroit 
and about the activities of people like yourself. I have nothing fur- 
ther, ]\Ir. Chairman. 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions of counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe there is a question I failed to ask him. Are 
you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beisavenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. NoRRis. May I ask the witness 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2811 

JSIr. Tavexner. One further question, Mr. Chairman. Were you in 
Enghmd during- the period of jouv service during the Avorld war? 

Mr. Beiswenger. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Were you located in London? 

Mr. Beiswenger. No, I was not. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Were you in London at any time ? 

Mr. Beisw^enger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mv. Ta^-enner. Do you mean to take the position with this com- 
mittee that your presence in London might tend to incriminate you in 
a court of the United States ? 

IVIr. Beiswenger. In this witch-hunting atmosphere, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me ask you this question : Did yon visit the 
London Worker in London, while you were there? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. That is all. 

Mr. NoRRis. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness a question 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Beiswenger, at the time you put on the uniform of 
the military forces of the United States and entered the Army, were 
you at that time a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds, and I might add, too, that I fought for my country 
and regardless of»what my political beliefs were at the time, I served 
honorably in the United States Armed Forces and was decorated a 
number of times and was honorably discharged. 

Mr. Wood. I have no further questions. Are there any further ques- 
tions by counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused from further testimony ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused and it is so ordered. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Who is 3^our next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Call Mr. Edward N. Turner. 

Mr. Wood. Will you i-aise your right hand and be sworn, please? 
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you (lod ? 

Mr. Turner. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWAED N. TUENER 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Turner. No ; I am not. 
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 
Mr. Turner. My name is Edward N. Turner. 
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Turner? 
Mr. Turner. I was born Jul}'^ 2, 1906, at the city of Little Rock, in 
the State of Arkansas. 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. What is your profession.? 
Mr. Turner. I am a practicing attorney at law. 



2812 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. In tlie city of Detroit ? 

Mr. TuRNEK. In the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. "^Vliat has been your educational preparation for 
your profession? 

Mr. Turner. Elementary training, high school, bachelor of arts de- 
gree from the University of Michigan, and bachelor of law degree 
from tlie Detroit College of Law. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in the city of Detroit ? 

Mr. Turner. Approximately 25 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What positions have you held in the city of De- 
troit, in line with your profession or any other civic or business en- 
deavors in this community? 

Mr. Turner. Presently I am the State president of the Michigan 
Conference of Branches of the National Association for tlie Advance- 
ment of Colored People, president of the Detroit branch of the same 
organization, and a member of the Mayor's Interracial Committee for 
the City of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Turner, this committee has endeavored to make 
it plain on many occasions that the mere subpenaing of a witness be- 
fore this committee carries with it no connotation of a program. You 
have been subpenaed to appear here to assist the committee by giving 
it such information as you may be able to give it on the subject of our 
investigation. 

However, I want to say, in the case of virtually every witness who 
has appeared before our committee in a matter of this kind, in order 
to properly apprise his testimony, I have always asked the question 
whether or not the witness is a member of the Communist Party, and 
for that reason I want to ask you the same question. 

Mr. Turner. I am not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Comnmnist 
Party? 

Mr. Turner. I have never been a member of the Communist Parly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Turner, the committee, in the course of a very 
extensive investigation in widely separated areas of the United States, 
has secured evidence that the Communist Party is concentrating its 
effort at this time upon basic industry, and particularlj' upon members 
of minority groups who have fomid themselves employed in basic 
industries. As one of the leadei-s of the Negro people in this area 
and in the State of Michigan, I want to ask you to give to the com- 
mittee the benefit of such information that you may have regarding 
the progress of the Connnunist Party and its activities among the 
Negro people. I Avish you would advise the connnittee, first, as to 
what progress has been made by the Communist Party in its contacts 
and activities among the Negro people. 

Mr. Turner. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, in order 
to understand the communistic activit}^ in the Detroit area, and I 
suspect in any given area, unless Ave look squarely at the conditions 
as they exist in that j^articuhir coinnmnity for the appeals Avhich tlie 
Communist Party or any other ideology can and are frequently based. 
I think you should agree that there is a Avide gap betAveen the prin- 
ciples of democracy and its daily practices. It is because of this wide 
gap that it is possible, in many instances, for the seeds of communism 
and other beliefs to flourish. Here in the city of Detroit, for many 
years, there has existed widespretid job discrimination based upon 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2813 

race, creed, and national origin, and the refusal to liire individuals 
on the basis of merit alone has caused a tendency to make a mockery of 
the free enterprise system. 

Another area is the housing area, which is another area in which 
interracial misunderstanding and friction often provides and produces 
violence, vandalism, and bloodshed. Discrimination and segregation 
in public housing and those gentlemen agreements and devices that 
are used in the matter of private housing, all of the things that daily 
remind the minority groups that equal opportunity is not and has not 
been brought to all Americans. 

Another area is the flagrant denial of service in places of public 
accommodation. Not in every place, but most of our restaurants, 
hotels, bars, and the like, do so, and that causes bitterness and a deep 
resentment. Particularly in that area, are these practices not only 
unjust and immoral but they are specifically violations of the law of 
the State of Michigan itself. 

In addition to that, when the public officials and those who are 
charged with the enforcement of the law fail to enforce the law ade- 
quately, they themselves contribute, in a large measure, to the lack of 
confidence and the basic processes of law and order. 

Likewise, we are also faced with recurrent incidences of malpractice 
by the police. Incidents of mistreatment of citizens oftentimes in- 
discriminate and illegal, searches and detentions without warrants. 

Another area are the opportunities available to minority groups for 
equal and adequate medical and hospital services, which are far below 
the standards which are afforded to white citizens. Even those services 
are sometimes afforded only on a segregatory basis. 

In our public schools, Negro teachers aie still assigned primarily 
to those schools that are attended predominantly by Negro students. 
Even in our social agencies, where they seek and obtain funds from the 
entire community, we still find those services extended on a "Jim 
Crow" basis. 

I would say, frankly, that this is not a pretty picture, and it cer- 
tainly does not speak well for democracy. These are the unsavory 
parts of the American scene with which we must live daily. Mind 
you, they are the unfinished business — they constitute the unfinished 
business of democracy in this country, and they should be corrected, not 
just because Communists seize upon these situations to exploit them, 
but they should be corrected because they are morally wrong. 

Of course, it would be a bit unfair not to recognize that there are 
important forces at work, which we know and feel and are determined 
will eventually correct these shortcomings, and shortcomings they are. 
It is in these positive, aggressive, democratic forces in which we have 
placed our hopes. Unfortunately for al] of us, the democratic process, 
from its very nature, is slow and cumbersome. But these are the 
reasons which have afforded the Communist movement its greatest 
opportunities. 

It is a verj^ significant thing that they have demonstrated their 
willingness to seize upon these situations and to rally the minority 
groups to their cause under the banner of giving them civil rights 
and bringing them democracy. 

Mr. Tavenner. You state that the Communists have demonstrated 
a willingness to prey upon these matters which you have mentioned. 



2814 COMML^NISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

"Well now, how have they done that and to what extent have they done 
that^ 

Mr. Turner. Your first question as to how they have done that can 
be very easily answered, because they have only too willingly offered 
to take up the cause to bring to the minority groups the democratic 
rights which the minority groups have long been denied. 

As to the extent to which they have accomplished that purpose, 
L would say that they have failed in that attempt completely and 
utterly. 

]\lr. TAVENiraR. In other words, you state that though they have 
demonstrated a willingness to be of some aid, you may say, to capitalize 
for their own purposes upon misfortunes or difficulties or problems of 
other people, yet they have not, in the course of the years, in your 
judgment, really succeeded in accomplishing anj-thing for these 
people ? 

Mr. Turner. I would say. Mr. Chairman and members of the com- 
mittee, that in spite of these enormous opportunities, the simple fact 
of the matter is that a very insignificant number of Negroes and pos- 
sibly other minority group citizens have been attracted to the cause. 
The reason that they have failed to be attracted to the cause has been 
because of the positive forces in the community and the leadership of 
these forces that have been afforded to the community in the civil rights 
movement. 

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, 
together with many other groups that have, over many years, con- 
cerned themselves with these problems, such as the major's interracial 
committee, of which I am a member, the Michigan Committee on Civil 
Eights, the Catholic Interracial Council, the Council of Churches, the 
Jewish Community Council, the Urban League, the CIO, and quite a 
few other organizations who have demonstrated that within the demo- 
cratic process itself, within the framework of the Constitution of the 
United States, that civil rights can and is being achieved. 

I would say to you that it is because of this type of leadership that 
has been exercised by these various groups, over a long period of time, 
that the Communist activities have not been successful. 

The most significant thing for you to know is that the National 
Association for the Advancement of Colored People was formed and 
organized in 1900, because of the realization, 42 j-ears ago. that there 
was a need, a definite need, for some organization composed of Negro 
unci white citizens working together and aimed at the achievement of 
America's fullest democratic potential. 

I might say the interracial character of that movement and this en- 
deavor and this association has continued to the point that it has grown 
to become the largest civil rights organization in the Nation and spe- 
cifically here in Detroit, in the city of Detroit, the Detroit branch. I 
believe, has been in the forefront. 

Take the Sweet case in 1926. The Detroit branch gave leadership to 
the community in that situation and went into the courts and achieved 
the recognition of the right of the individual citizen to defend his home 
against attack, notwithstanding his race, and his color. 

I would like to point out that at about the same time, the Detroit 
branch in conjunction with other liberal forces in the community began 
its long and tedious court struggle to :ivoid restrictive covenants in the 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2815 

private housing field, wiiicli 1 believe most of you know culiniiuited in 
1948, in a favorable decision in the United States Supreme Court. 

Here in Michigan, we had in 1937, a strong civil rights law, the 
Diggs* civil rights law, which has been a weapon to fight discrimina- 
tion here on the local level in places of public accommodation. I think 
that we can even take credit, to some extent, in the fair employment 
standards that have been achieved in civil service here. 

AVe can see accomplishments as the result of pioneering efforts of 
the Urban League in obtaining significant employment openings for 
Negros and other minority persons in the white collar employment 
area. 

"We have witnessed in the most recent years, the past 8 years, the 
establishment of important governmental agencies set up, within the 
framework of the Government itself, such as the mayor's interracial 
committee. 

Again as a result of the leadership that has been given by these 
organizations. Me have seen a development, a very meaningful develop- 
ment, of a human relations program in our public schools and even in 
the police department. We have been successful in aiding them to 
include a training program in race relations, which certainly offers a 
promising long-term gain for our conununity. 

Mr. Tavekxer. In other words, you are stating that as a result of 
all these activities, there should be no appeal to the Communist Party 
by members of your race, on tlie ])art of members of your race: that 
they do not have to look to the Connnunist Party for any alleged 
im])rovements. but that it can be done and is being done under the 
guidance of leaders of all the races and creeds. 

]Mr. TiTRXEK. Well, that is definitely the impression that I am try- 
ing to make clear here today, that the type of leadership that has been 
afforded here in the Detroit area and which is still continuing pres- 
ently at this moment, because there is pending in this Federal court a 
case to abolish segregation in public housing, among other things. We 
are currently carrying on the fight to strengthen the legal machinery 
br which we can eliminate discrimination in public places of acconnno- 
dation. We are most intensely developing a fair emploj-ment legis- 
lation campaign both on the city level and on the State level. 

We have a pending measure before the Detroit Conunon Council, 
and at the same time, on the State level, we are seeking to obtain the 
passage of such a law on the State level. 

We are attempting to develop fair practices, which we know the 
community needs, in medical and hospital services, and we are defi- 
nitely attempting to cooperate with the police in establishing and 
maintaining effective machinery to insure good police practices. 

These are the programs in these areas of the mifinished business of 
democracv. which entirelv removes from this comnuniitv anv need 
for communism or any other ideology. 

Mr. Tavexxer. We have, for instance, heard testimony during this 
hearing that the Communists in certain political campaigns were no 
more successful in territories in which the Xegro voting i)Oi3ulation 
was predominant than in corresponding areas in which the white peo- 
ple were predominant. I am wondering if that is a fair analysis or 
statement of the activities or the degree of success of the Connnunist 
Party among the people of your race here. 



2816 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. TuRNKK. I would definitely answer in the affirmative, because 
we seek to join hands with all orj^^anizations in the community that 
are starting to meet these problems within the democratic process. 
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has 
joined hands with organizations of the nature and character that I 
have named heretofore, the coordinating council, consisting of approx- 
imately 52 impoj-tant civil rights organizations. 

It would seem to me that to associate or even to attempt to associate: 
communism with the struggle for civil rights by these groups in 
America is definitely the most dangerous mistake that could be made. 

JNIr. Tavennek. tVe have heard leaders among the Negro people 
from other sections of the country express virtually the same thoughts. 
That is, that their people resent the Communists' endeavoring to make 
it appear that they are fighting their causes, when actually what tlie 
Communist Party" is doing is just the same thing that it seeks to do 
in every phase of society, and that is to promote it for its own 
purposes. 

Mr. Potter. If counsel would yield at that point, Mr. Turner, what 
has been the history of minority groups in Communist-dominated 
countries ? I thi nk that is a criterion as to the sincerity of communism. 
What has been the result in other countries where the Communists are 
in control of the government? We know that minority groups have 
been severely punished and exploited in many of those countries. We 
know that here certainly there are many errors pertaining to minority 
groups, that minority groups want betterment. Our life is a changing 
life. The Comuumist forces make a great play and grab hold of those 
issues quickly to use them to the fullest extent. They are undoubtedly 
sincere in their efforts at that time. But their efforts for civil rights 
in many areas is to use it for an issue to gain their ultimate objective, 
namely, gaining large groups for an effort to eventually overthrow 
our Government. 

If I may interject at this time, I wish that the leadership of the 
Negro people and other minority groups who have been able to with- 
stand this concentrated effort on the part of the Communist movement 
to infiltrate and penetrate their ranks — I wish to state that is probably 
one of the most admirable powers that any people can have. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Ja(3Kson. Mr. Turner, I should like to say that one of the oc- 
casional heartening things that happens to this committee in the way 
of witnesses is to have one on the stand like yourself, who in very con- 
cise form ably sets forth the problem. I do not think there is anyone 
here who can contend that our democracy is perfect. It has its short- 
comings. I think what we are trying to point out to Americans, all 
good Americans, of whatever race^ creed, or color, is the fact that 
what we have, what we are attempting to build in the way of a destiny 
for America and for free Americans is a nnich finer and a much greater 
thing than is enjoyed anywhere else in the world. That progress, as 
you point out, has been extremely slow, but I think that anyone 
who stops to realize that within the memory of living man, slaves 
were sold from the auction block of this country, will realize that we 
:are moving away from the auction block, and that the Soviet Union 
js moving toward it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2817 

The latest figures on total camp population, penal camp population 
of the Soviet Union, is set between o million and perhaps as high as 
15 million. Those are men and women who have lost their liberties 
and lost them forever. 

I would certainly reconmiend to you, if you have not seen this, Mr. 
Turner, "Slave Labor in the Soviet World" published by the free trade 
committee of the American Federation of Labor. It should be read, 
I think, by every American who wants to know what goes on behind 
the barbed w4re. 

I have just one question, Mr. Chairman, if I may? You recall, 
before the committee came to town, Mr. Turner, there was a great hue 
and cry among the nonhysterical critics of this committee, that we 
were coming to town to divide races and creeds, labor and manage- 
ment. Out of your knowledge of the testimony and what you have 
heard, has there been anything said by a committee member or by a 
member of this staif, which has not been thoroughly cognizant of the 
rights of Negro Americans, or of a realization on our part that they 
are fully as important in our scheme of things as any other citizen? 

Mr. Turner. Up to this point, I have heard nothing of that nature, 
Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much, Mr. Turner. 

Mr. Wood. The committee feels a very deep appreciation for your 
taking your time to come here and give us your expression of your 
views, and the benefit of your observations in this area. 

If there are no further questions by counsel, and if there is no rea- 
son why the witness should not be excused now from further attend- 
ance before this committee, with the very sincere thanks of the com- 
mittee, your presence here is no longer needed. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. The committee will recess until 10 a. m. tomorrow 
morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 15 p. m., the committee was recessed to reconvene 
at 10 a. m., Wednesday, February 27, 1952.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE BETEOIT AEEA— PART 1 



WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1952 

United States House of Representatives 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Detroit, Mh-h. 

public hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pui'sunnt to call at 10 : 15 a. m. in room 740, Federal Building, Detroit, 
Mich., Hon. John S. Wood (chairuian) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood, Don- 
ald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Start' members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel: Thomas 
W. I^eale, Sr.. assistant counsel; John W. Carrington, clerk; and 
Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

]\Ir. Wood. Let the committee be in order. 

Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to call as the first witness this morning, Rev. Charles 
A. Hill. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Reverend Hill ? 

Reverend Hill. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Reverend Hill. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

TESTIMONY OF REV. CHARLES A. HILL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, GEORGE W. CROCKETT, JR. 

Reverend Hill. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. AVill counsel please identify himself for the record, in- 
cluding his business address? 

Mr. Crockett. My name is George W. Crockett, Jr., a member of 
the Detroit Bar and United States Supreme Court Bar. My office is 
located in the Cadillac Tower in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Chairman, I have one or two preliminary matters I would like 
to have a ruling on by the conunittee. I noticed in the two preceding- 
days of the committee's session, in the course of witnesses testifying, 
the wishes of the witness are completely ignored and flashlight l)ulbs 
are going on and pictures are being taken. I can understand the 
desire of the gentlemen of the press to get photographs and we have 

2819 

<»7fi!l7— 5:^—1)1. 1 8 



2820 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

no objection to that. I would like, however, that the chairman rule 
that durino;' the course of any witnesses I represent, that no pictures 
be taken and at the conclusion of the testimony we would be glad to 
give the gentlemen of the press any pictures they want. 

INIr. Wood. Witnesses appearing before the committee have the 
right to ask that there be no photographs taken by their own request, 
if they so desire. Do you make that request ? 

]\fr. Crockett. I make that request. 

Mr. Wood. In the absence of such request, I will not put any restric- 
tions on them except in deference to the M'itness. Is it your wish that 
you do not Mnsh to be photographed while on the witness stand? 

Reverend Hill. I do not wish to be photographed. 

Mr. Wood. Do you make that as a request of this committee? 

Reverend Hill. I certainly do. 

]\rr. Wood. I shall be forced to respect that request and you gentle- 
men of the press are not to take photogi^aphs or pictures of any char- 
acter of the witness while he is on the stand. I understand from the 
statement of his counsel that after he is through, you will be able to 
photograph him as you may desire. That is a matter over which the 
committee has no control. However, I will respect the wishes of the 
witness while he is here. 

Mr. Crockett. My second suggestion, Mr. Wood, is that the com- 
mittee note for the record the absence of one member. Congressman 
Moulder, from Missouri. Has that been noted on the record? 

Mr. Wood. It will be noted on the record that there is a majority 
of the subcommittee designated to this committee, present. I was 
going to call that to the attention of the record. There are present 
Messrs. Jackson, Potter, and Wood, who constitute three out of the 
four members of the subcommittee. 

Mr. Crockett. Reverend Hill has a prepared statement that he 
would like to read to the committee. 

I noticed yesterday when Attorney Turner appeared before the 
committee he was permitted to Jijive what was to all intents and pur- 
])oses a prei)ared statement. He testified from notes and cards. I 
think the chairman noticed that. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is at liberty at use any memoranda that he 
has to refresh his recollection, with respect to answering any questions 
that may be propounded to him. Any prepared statement that he 
desires to give to the committee, will be filed with the clerk and con- 
sidered by the committee. That has been a uniform rule of this com- 
mittee and it will be adhered to on this occasion. 

Mr. Crockett. We only felt in fairness to the committee that we 
should read it. 

Mr. Wood. There can be no question about it because that is the 
rule. There can be no argument about it. 

Afr. Crockett. I am not arguing. 

Mr. Wood. If he has a statement that he would like to submit, we 
will be glad to have it. 

Mr. Crockett. I would like to make a statement for the record. 

Mr. Wood. Statements by counsel are not permitted in this com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Crockett. Counsel may not note anything on the record on 
behalf of his client in these hearings? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2821 

Mr. Wood. Nothing at all. What you have suggested here with ref- 
erence to the quorum of the subcommittee, I did consider out of defer- 
ence and courtesy to you. I did not have to do it. I have ruled that 
the statement cannot be read, and that should be the end of it. 

Mr. Crockett. In that case, we will file a statement before we release 
it to the press. 

Mr. Tavenner. Keverend Hill, will you state your full name ? 

Reverend Hill. Rev. Charles A. Hill. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Reverend Hill. Detroit, Mich., April 28, 1893. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Reverend Hill. lOGO West Grand Boulevard, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a charge and pastorage in the city of 
Detroit? 

Reverend Hill. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you engaged in the work of the 
ministry in the city of Detroit ? 

Reverend Hill. Close to 35 years. 

Mr. Tav'enner. What has been your formal educational training? 

Reverend Hill. Public schools of Detroit ; Cleary Business College, 
Yysilanti ; Lincoln University, Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, the committee has, from time to time, 
in all of its investigations siibpenaed witnesses before it, both Com- 
munists and non-Communists, where that subject has been under inves- 
tigation, for the purpose of obtaining such information as it w^as 
interested in and which dealt on the subject of its inquiry. 

Now, in subpenaing you here, I want to make it plain that the com- 
mittee has not subpenaed you with any preconceived idea that you are 
a member of the Communist Party. As I have asked other witnesses 
who have appeared here and in other hearings on the subject of com- 
munism regarding membership, I want to also ask you that question. 

Mr. Crockett. Mr. Chairman  

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Connnunist Party ? 

Mr. Crockett. May I inquire, Mr, Chairman — — 

Mr. Wood. Let us get this clear right now. You are at liberty to 
confer with your client as often as you see fit and give him such 
advice and counsel as you may think he is in need of, or he may re- 
quest advice from you, and that is as far as counsel is permitted to go 
in this committee. 

Please confine yourself to that. 

Mr. Crockett. I am simply asking for a ruling from the committee 
on the materiality of the question put by committee counsel. 

Mr. Wood. In view of my ruling, I decline to make any further 
ruling. I will ask you i)lease, to comply with the ruling. 

Mr. Crockett. Then I take it the committee rules the question is 
material. 

Mr. Wood. The committee rules that you can confer with your client, 
if you want to. 

Mr. Crockett. Do I understand the committee rules the question to 
be material ? 

Mr. Wood. The committee rules the question material, if it is asked. 

Mr. Crockett. Then any question asked, it is assumed then that 
the committee rules it is material ? 



2822 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Wood. Otlierwise it would not be asked. 

Mr. Crocketp. Very Avell. 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you answer the question, please? 

Reverend Hill. What is the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you [addressing court reporter] read him the 
question? 

(The question wasread by the court reporter.) 

Mr. Crockett. M}^ advice to you 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, give him your advice in private, ])lease. 

]Mr. Crockett. He has no objection to my stating them out loud. 

Mr. Wood. We do. 

Mr. Crockett. Does the committee have serious objection to it ? 

Mr. Wood. We have serious objection to your making a speech. 
You can give him your advice. 

Eeverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer the (jues- 
tion under the tifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am rather disappointed that that is your ]iosition. 
It was my purpose 

Mr. Crockett. Just one minute. Do I understand speeches by coun- 
sel are to be prohibited? 

Mr. Wood. One more address from you to this committee will re- 
sult in your expulsion from this committee room. Any advice you 
want to give your client, you can give to him. This connnittee will 
not have its rules constantly violated in this flagrant maimer, as you 
are undertaking to do. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, during the course of its investiga- 
tion, has received information which would tend to show considerable 
activity, on your part, and affiliation with the organizations which 
are commonly referred to as Communist-front organizations. Tliat 
does not necessarily mean that the person who is engaged in that kind 
of activity is actually a member of the Communist Party, but due to 
the information that the committee has received about your affiliation 
with such organizations and some of your conduct with regard to 
them, it was felt important that we question yon regarding them 
with the idea in mind of developing to what extent, if any, the Com- 
munist Party may have been endeavoring to use you in these organiza- 
tions and what connection, if any, the Communist Party may have 
had wdth them. 

It was in the light of that problem that I had proposed to interio- 
gate you and I had hoped that you would cooperate with the connnit- 
tee, in giving it the benefit of all tlie knowledge and information you 
had with regard to those matters. 

ReA^erend Hill. May I say, counsel, this (indicating) is my only 
guide to all my activities — the Bible. I let God lead me wherever there 
is discrimination or segregation or injustice of anybody, of any kind. 
T ask nobody their religious oi- political beliefs. I go in there to make 
this democracy, which I believe in, a reality to every individual 
whether lie is black or white. 

I believe in complete eciuality. wliether social or otherwise. A^Tien I 
talk to some of my boys of my congregation or others who say foi' the 
first time they have felt like men, when we stood on the foreign field 
where color had nothing to do with it, it makes my heart bleed. I 
will continue to work to eliminate from our society those things that 
are inconsistent with the teachings of Christ and our democracy. 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2823 

]Mr. Tavenneh. Of course, we find no f;iult witli tliat. What I asked 
your cooperation in, was to tell this committee all that you know about 
the activities of the Communist Party, with regard to the various 
projects which you have worked on and the various activities which we 
will call to your attention. That was the extent and purpose of my 
calling you liere as a witness. 

Reverend Hill. May I say, that the Communist Party has had 
notliing to do with any of my activities. 

Mr. Tavexner. Well, let us inquire into that. 

Reverend Hill. I wonder if I might add conceining the list, that I 
am not willing to be governed by any list where individuals or organiza- 
tions have not had an opportunity to prove or disprove their loyalty 
to the Government. I thiiik any one individual, particularly with 
corruption in our present Justice Department, should have the right 
to say to organizations which over 90 percent of them are fighting to 
make our democracy an ideal 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, I am not asking you to pass upon 
or to announce your judgment with regard to these organizations. 

Reverend Hill. I just wanted it cleared, INIr. Council. 

Mr. Tavexner. Reverend Hill, the committee has information that 
there was a banquet given honoring Abner Berry and James Jackson. 
Abner Berry was the outgoing educational director of district No. 7 
of the Communist Party, and James Jackson was the incoming educa- 
tional director of the Communist Party. 

I have before me the program, the printed progTam. I hand it to 
yon and ask 3'ou if you will identify it. 

CV^Hiereupon, Mr. Crockett attempted to take the exhibit.) 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Crockett, I will not admonish you again. This is an 
orderly proceeding, sir, and if yoii^annot respect it, you will have no 
voice here at all. 

Mr. Ta\'exner. Will you examine the program, please, and see if 
3'ou can identify it as atestimonal, a program of a testimonial banquet? 

Reverend Hill. I refuse to answer on the advice of counsel under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. On what grounds ? 

Reverend Hill. According to counsel, I am not required to state any 
grounds except what I have already stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to look at the program, Reverend Hill? 

Reverend Hill. I am looking at it. 

Mr. Jackson. You are looking at it ? 

Reverend Hill. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Ta^-e^^ner. I desire to offer the program in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Exhibit No. 1— Hill Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be so marked and received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Hill Exhibit No. 1" and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Ta%te:nner. I notice that one of the sponsors of the testimonial 
committee, as it appears printed on the back, is "Rev. Charles A. 
Hill." Were you one of the sponsors of that banquet? 

Revei-end Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you not think that anj^ person who sponsored a 
banquet in honor of the incoming and outgoing educational directors 



2824 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

of the Communist Party for the State of Micliigan, would be lending 
their support and lending their influence in the community to the ad- 
vancement of the interests of the Communist Party ? 

Reverend Hill. For the same reasons I have given, I refuse to 
answer. 

Mr. TA%rEN]srER. Would it not be inconsistent with the statement you 
made here a few moments ago, that you were interested onl}' in advo- 
cating the matters appearing in the Bible, which you held out, if you 
were in fact sponsoring meetings of the Communist Party, honoring 
its State-wide officials? Do you not think that would be inconsistent 
with your statement as to what your only purpose has been ? 

Reverend Hill. No; I do not; when I attend banquets, and so forth, 
I honor individuals for the objectives or motives, and I may know 
nothing about them or the organizations behind them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us see whether or not you knew anything about 
these individuals. 

It is printed in the program of the testimonial banquet, under the 
name of James E. Jackson, the following : 

GiaduHte, Virainia Union and Howard University. Active in the Scottsboro 
defense. Leader student activity, Howard. One of tlie founders and former 
president of tlie Southern Negro Youth Congress. Veteran of 3 years overseas 
service in India and Burma. Chairman, Communist Party in Louisiana, 1946. 
Now member State committee of Michigan Communist Party. 

Did that not give you full knowledge of the official position which 
he held at the time that you are alleged to have sponsored this banquet 
honoring him? 

Reverend Hill. On adA'ice of counsel, I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Appearing under the name Abner W. Berry, ap- 
pears this information printed in the program : 

Active for 18 years in labor movement. Was secretary of regional Communist 
organization embra"ing Texn.«;, Oklahoma, Iowa. Kansas, Nebraska, Arkansas, 
Missouri. Executive secretary of Harlem section of Communist Party. Was on 
staff and editorial bcnrd of Daily "\^'orker. Taught Marxism in labor schools. 
Veteran, 'i years overNtas seivice in the Armed Forces in England. France, Bel- 
gium, and Germany. Member of Michigan State Committee of Communist Party 
anl edic 1 "o u 1 director. Member of National Connnittee, Communist Party. 
Leaving Detroit to become staff member of Daily Worker. 

Can you plead ignorance of these facts relating to one of the men 
whose meeting you sponsored or was alleged to have sponsored? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can I ask you if the sponsoring of a banquet for one 
of these outstanding leaders in the Communist Party would not tend 
to influence and exert a tremendous influence among your friends and 
the people who looked up to you, in the accomplishments of the ob- 
jectives of the Connnunist Party ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I i-efuse to answer. 

Mr. Taat^nnek. I am very anxious to know. Reverend Hill, how it 
was that the Communist Party was successful in getting you to sponsor 
a meeting the description of which I have just given. 

Reverend Hill. I will give the same answer, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, did you on February 13, 1947, speak 
at an Ella Reeve Bloor testimonial bancpiet sponsored by the Com- 
munist Party of the State of Michigan? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2825 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, can you be more specific about the place ? 

Mr. Crockett. Did I understand you to suggest an addition to the 
question, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. I simply made a suggestion to counsel. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the fact that Ella lieeve 
Bloor was one of the charter members of the Communist Party of the 
United States ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, on January 22, 1949, attend a l)anquet 
honoring Carl Winter, chairman of the Communist Party of district 
7? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, certainly you must understand 
the importance to the committee of knowing how and under what 
circumstances your alleged participation in these matters, even if it 
were only by attendance, was secured by the Connnunist Party, if 
at all. We would like your cooperation in telling us that. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I am sorry, I cannot cooperate 
with the committee along that particular line under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you are stating to this committee, 
if I understand you correctly, if you truthfully answ^er these ques- 
tions it might tend to incriminate you ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

JNIr. Tavenner. What, in your judgment, w^ould be the effect U])on 
your personal friends and followers if they learned that you were at- 
tending a banquet honoring the chairman of the Communist Party 
of this State, and a charter member of the Communist Party? Do 
you not think that would be an aid to the Communist Party in this 
community ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of coimsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, in the course of its investigation, 
has received information that Ben Davis, Negro Communist from 
New York, spoke at the Hartford Avenue Baptist Church of which 
you are a pastor, is that correct ? 

Reverend Hill. Yes, it is, and my church has been providing a 
forum for anyone who has any information to pass on. 

Mr. Tam^nner. Will you tell us the circumstances under which he 
appeared there? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer that ques- 
tion under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\t2Nner. Did any member of the Communist Party or non- 
Communist, for that matter, confer with you about his use of your 
church ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. You are acquainted with the fact that Benjamin 
Davis was an open member of the Communist Party and had been 



2826 COMJVIXJNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

elected to the Council of the City of New York on the Conmiunist 
Party ticket. I mean, you were acquainted with that fact, were you 
not ? 

Keverend Hill,. I don't know that he was elected on the Communist 
ticket. I know he was elected to the Council of the City of New York. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel, is tliis tlie same Benjamin J. Davis who 
was indicted and placed on trial in the State of New York for the 
advocacy of the overthrow of the Government of the United States 
by force and violence, and was convicted on that charjre? 

Mr. Tavenner. I was just about to ask the witness if he knew that 
to be a fact. 

Mr. Jackson. In order that the record may be technically correct. 
I will withdraw my question and permit counsel to phrase it as he 
sees fit. 

Mr. Ta\1':nnek. Is the Benjamin J. Davis, who appeared in your 
church, the same Benjamin Davis who was elected to the Council of 
the City of New York? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer the question 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you not already stated to the committee that 
Ben Davis did run for the Council of the City of New York, but you 
were uncertain as to whether it was as a Communist or not? Was 
that not the effect of your answer a few minutes atro? Are you now 
stating you will answer no questions with regard to Benjamin Davis? 

Reverend Hill. If I have answered that one question, I do not see 
any need to answer any other. 

^Ir. Tavenner. Let us see if there is. Do you know whether the 
Ben Davis who appeared in your church and who was elected a mem- 
ber of the Council of the City of New York, is the same Ben Davis 
who was tried as one of the 11 Communist Party leaders of the United 
States, and was convicted in the Federal court in New York City? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, in the course of its investigation, 
has learned also that your consent was solicited to write a letter to 
Governor DeAvey of New York requesting a pardon for Morris 
Schappes ? Were you requested to write such a letter ? 

Revereiul Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to answer the question 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, on February 18, 1944, attend a luncheon 
at the Book-Cadillac Hotel in honor of Harry Bridges? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I again decline to answer the 
question under the fiftli amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, I again ask you wliether or not you 
were consciously endeavoring to influence people of your church or 
your race towards the Communist Party, as such ? 

Reverend Hill. On the advice of counsel. I decline to answer the 
o""stion under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will not tell the committee whether you were 
intentionally endeavoring to aid the Conununist Party, or not, by 
these various nuitters or any of them which I have called to your 
attention ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2827 

Mr. Tavexner. On Febriiaiy 8, 1943, according to the information 
wliicli the committee has, you signed a petition to Congress to abolish 
the Dies committee. I raise no question in the workl about your right 
or anyone else's right to express an opinion regarding a predecessor 
of this committee, or any connnittee. 

The point I am interested in is, "who was it and under what cir- 
cumstances was the use of your name obtained in that matter, if it 
was so obtained? 

Reverend PIiel. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mv. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the board 
of directors of the Russian War Relief? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. Were you one of the speakers at a meeting on 
October 23, 1942, sponsoring the opening of a second front, that is, in 
which any organization was sponsoring the opening of a second front ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavex-^xer. You do know that it was the Connnunist Party 
line at that time in 1942, which it endeavored to hand down to all of 
tlie organiaztions which were influenced or attempted to be influenced 
by the Communist Party, to adopt tlie second front in Europe. You 
do kuow that that was the Communist Party line at that time, do you 
not ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fiftli amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you at any time affiliated with the American 
Peace Mobilization ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavex'^x'er. Did you engage in any activities for the release of 
Earl Browder, who had been convicted of fraud in obtaining his 
passport ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. According to the People's Voice of March 21, 1942, 
page 11, you were the signer of a petition of the Citizens Committee 
to free Earl Browder, is that correct ? I mean, is it correct that you 
did sign such a petition? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. Then it is not worth while for me to ask you the 
circumstances under which such signature might have been obtained. 
I Avill ask you this: Do you not bebeve that a person who signs a 
petition for the head of the Communist Party of the United States, 
who had been convicted of fraud in a Federal court, would be lending 
aid and comfort to the Communist Party? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to ansAver under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Taatrnner. According to the Daily AYorker of March 16, 1942, 
pages 1 and 4. you were a sponsor of the National Free Browder Con- 
gress. Do you recall that ? 



2828 COMMUNISM l.\ IIIK DETROIT AREA 

Kevereiid Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenxkij. You are aware of the fact, are you not, that the 
Citizens Committee to free Earl Browder has been classified by the 
Attorney General as a Communist organization? 

Keverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mi-. Tavenker. I would like for you to tell the committee what you 
know about the formation in the State of Michigan, of an organiza- 
tion known as the Civil Rights Federation, 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever hold an official position in that organ- 
ization? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not that 
organization was used as a basis for the establishment, or rather the 
nucleus for the formation of the Civil Rights Congress of Michigan? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any position in the Civil Rights Con- 
gress ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tayt^nner. According to the Dailv Worker of June 11, 1947, 
]xige 8, you s])oke at a meeting of the Civil Rights Congress in defense 
of Eugene Dennis. Are you personally acquainted with Eugene 
Dennis? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. What charge had been placed against Eugene 
Dennis which necessitated the organization of a group for his defense, 
do you recall ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to ansAver under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Chicago Sun Times of May 11, 
1948, page .'"7, your name appears as the signer of an open letter by 
the Civil Rights Congress urging Congress to defeat the Mundt bill. 
Again I want to emphasize that there is no inference intended to be 
made against you or any other ]ierson for exiUTSsing your opinion on 
any bill relating to the work of this or any other committee, but in 
view of the issues involved in these matters, we are interested in how 
and under what circumstances your support to the opposition of the 
))ill was obtained, if it was. 

Reverend Hill. TTpon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the liftli amendment. 

Mr. Taat^.nner. According to the Daily Worker of February 20, 
1948, page (>, you were one of those who denounced the arrest of Ferdi- 
nand C. Smith. A deportation order had been entered against him. 
Did 3'ou denounce his arrest for deportation? 

Reverend Hill. TTpon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2829 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you ()j)posed to the deportation of aliens wlio 
advocate the overtlirow of the Government of the United States^ 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fiftli amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean to tell the committee that you can- 
not answer tliat question truthfully without fear of possible incrimi- 
nation? 

Reverend Hill. TTpon advice of counsel, I decline to answer the 
question under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Sunday edition of the Daily 
Worker, April 24, 1949, page 11, you participated in a statement of 
the Civil Rights Congress clemanding tluit the indictment of the 11 
Connnunist Party leaders in the city of New York be dropped. Did 
you participate in such statement, and if so, will you tell the committee 
how your support of such a matter was obtained ? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you of the opinion that the indictment against 
the 11 Communist leaders should have been dropped? 

Reverened Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. According to a list attached to a pamphlet entitled 
"In Defense of Human Rights," you were a signer of the petition to 
the United Nations Commission on human rights on behalf of the 
committee to defend the victims of the Committee on Un-Americaji 
Activities. 

What victims of tlie Committee on Un-American Activities were you 
referring to, if any? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you opposed to investigations by the Committee 
on Un-American Activities designed to inform the Congress of the 
United States of the extent of Communist Party activities and prop- 
aganda in this country ? 

Reverend Hill. On the advice of counsel, I refuse to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever affiliated with an organization known 
as the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties? 

Reverend Hnx. I decline to answer on advice of counsel under the 
fifteenth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. I think the witness added a couple of new amend- 
ments. The fifth amendment was the last reason given. 

Reverend Hill. INIaybe there ought to be new ones. I am going on 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to a conference program, you were a 
sponsor of the Cultural and Scientific Conference for World Peace 
held in New York City. I am not so much interested in your participa- 
tion in it as I am how your participation, if that is true, was obtained. 
Will you tell us that. 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Daily Worker of July 24, 1950, at 
page 5, you were a signer of a statement issued by the Council on 



2830 COMMUNIS.M lx\ THE DETROIT AREA 

Africiii) Ail'airs against the United States policy in Korea. Do yon 
recall that ? 

Keverend Hill. Upon advice of connsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do yon recall whether Paul Robeson was the leader 
of the Council on African Affairs at that time? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you aware that the Council on African Affairs 
was classified by the Attorne}^ General and cited by him as a Com- 
munist organization ? 

Reverend Hill. I decline to answer on advice of counsel under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to a letterhead dated September 9, 19-49, 
you were a sponsor of the National Nonpartisan Committee to defend 
the rights of the 12 Communist leaders. Again, I am more interested 
in how your sponsorship of such an organization was obtained and 
the circumstances than I am in the fact that you were such a sponsor, 
if that be true. 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are aware that these 12 persons were Com- 
munist Party leaders indicated for advocating and teaching the 
overthrow^ of our Government, are you not? 

Reverend Hill. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever attended the Michigan School of 
Social Science ? 

Reverend Hill. T"'^pon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Dave Moore ? 

Reverend Hill. What Dave Moore ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a Dave Moore who is a 
^ord worker? 

Reverend Hill. I decline, upon advice of counsel, to answei- under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me hand you a document and ask you to 
examine it and possibly you will feel that you can answer the question, 
after you have examined the document without any fear of self-in- 
crimination. This is a photostatic copy of an application for passport 
by Dave Moore — Dave W. Moore, and your signature apparently is 
on the document as an identifying witness. I would like you to ex- 
amine the document and state whether or not you were an identifying 
witness of Mr. Moore. 

Reverend Hiu.. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
(he fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the statement that appears there 
over the signature of Charles A. Hill, and state whether or not it 
contains information to the effect that Charles A. Hill had been 
]:)ersonally acquainted with Dave Moore for 15 years. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2831 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the date ? Will you examine the applica- 
hon and state its date? 

Reverend Hill. Of advice of counsel, I decline to answer. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Well, let nie state it for you, if you hand it back. 

The ajjplication shows that it was dated the I7th day of June 1949. 
At that time you did know that Dave Moore had been selected as a 
delegate to the AVorld Federation for Democratic Youth, to be held in 
Budapest in September 1949, and if you did, I would like for you to 
advise the committee how his selection was obtained as a delegate. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I refuse to ansAver under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Reverend Hill, have you been a candidate for a 
political office in Detroit? 

Reverend Hill. I have. 

Mr. Taa^enner. What office did you seek ? 

Reverend Hill. Common Council of the City of Detroit. 

Mr. Ta\t.nn"er. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not, 
to your knowledge, the Communist Party as an organization — that is, 
as distinguished from individuals — played any part in your campaign. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Gerald Boyd a full-time worker for you in your 
campaign ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Gerald Boyd was 
assigned to work for you in your campaign by the Communist Party ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you collaborate or confer in any way in the 
matter of your political campaign with Carl Winter, district chairman 
of tlie Connnunist Party ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised that the Communist Party was 
pai-ticularly interested in the success of your campaign, and wliy ? 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I decline to answer under the 
fiftli amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I have asked you these questions with the hope 
tliat you would enlighten the connnittee upon the methods used by 
the Communist Party to influence leaders among your race, and to use 
them. So I again want to make it plain that I am not attempting to 
put you in the Communist Party. I am endeavoring, to the best of my 
ability, to get information from you regarding the activities and 
metliods of operation of the Comimmist Party, particularly among 
minority groups. A]id again, I want to give you the opportunity to 
tell this committee the extent to which the Communist Party has in- 
fluenced you in these various activities which I have asked you about, 
but which you have declined to testify about. 

Reverend Hill. On advice of counsel, I am sorry, I can't help you. 
I have told you I only have the one guide, and that is my Bible and 
nothing else influences me but those principles. Nobody else has any 
control. 



2832 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexxkr. You mean tlio Bible luul something to do with your 
sponsoring of the bsuuinet to tlie incoming and outgoing leaders of 
the Communist Party here iji Michigan? 

Reverend Hiix. Upon advice of counsel, I decline to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavkxner. 1 have no further questicms, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackkox. Mr. Chairman. I tliink in the light of the witness' 
attitude toward the questions of counsel, that there certainly is no 
reason for asking any further questions. It is quite obvious that he 
is not going to answer any questions having to do with his Communist 
Party activities, which are alleged to have taken place within and 
outside of the Communist Paity. 

I do think that I should like to make a very brief statement: Men 
who have the high calling of the ministry, men who are dedicated to 
(rod and to His woi'ks are today rotting in prison cells in eveiy country 
in the Communist orbit. Tlieir Bibles are rotting beside them. It is 
bad enough in these days when we are waging a war against com- 
munism, when our men are dying by the thousands, that any man 
can commit the treason of membership in the Communist Party or of 
lending aid, or comfort or assistance to the Communist Party. To do 
so stanq)s them as enemies of the Un.ited States of America. 

For a minister, foi- a man of the cloth, to aid or comfort or endorse 
or lend his assistance to Communists or to the Connnunist Party, is 
to conq:>ound the oifense by including God Almighty in his treason. 
That is all I have to say. 

Kaverend Hill. If I might say, Mr. Chairman : What I have done, if 
I have violated any law, then I am Avilling to go into any court, meet 
my accuser, and be cross-examined. I have been interested in pri- 
marily one thing, and that is discrimination, segregation, the second- 
class citizenship that my people suffer, and as long as I live, until it 
is eradicated from this American society, I will accept the cooperation 
of anybody who wants to make America the land of the free and the 
home of the brave. 

Mr. Jacksox. I would suggest that you accept the help and assist- 
ance of some good, loyal Americans for a change. You will have a 
chance to meet your greatest accuser on some other plane. 

Reverend Hill. I do it all the time. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, have you any questions ? 

Mr. Potter. Reverend Hill, from your testimony, the only con- 
clusion that I can draw is that if you are not a member of the Com- 
munist Party, you have cheated them out of a lot of dues, or else they 
owe you for valuable services that you have rendered their cause. 

Thank you. 

Reverend Hill. May I say, Mr. Potter 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions of the witness, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. No, sir. 

iNIr. Wood. Is there any reason vou know of wh}^ the witness should 
not be excused from further attendance ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. I know of no reason. 

Revei'er,(l Hn !,. Mr. Chairman, n.iay I respond to Mr. Potter 

Mr. Wood. Witness excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 



COMMUXISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2833 

]\Ir. Wood. The committee will recess for 10 minutes. 

(A recess was taken.) 

]\Ir. Wood. Let us have order in the hearing room. 

Are YOU ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to call Mr. Wayne Salisbury. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will bo the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WAYNE B. SALISBURY 

INIr. AVooD. Mr. Salisbury, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Salisbury. No, sir. 

JNIr. AVooD. Do you desire counsel ? 

Mr. Salisbury. No, sir. 

]Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mv. TA\^N]srER. Mr. Salisbury, will you state your full name, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. Wayne B. Salisbury. 

Ml-. Tavenner. AYhen and where were you born ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Mhj 25, 1914, Jackson, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenxeh. Have you lived at Jackson, Mich., all of your life? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\enneh. What has been your educational background? 

yiv. Salisbi'ry. High-school graduate, 19;]r>. I spent 6 years learn- 
ing the printing trade. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment ? 

INIr. Salisbury. Since when ? Since school ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, yes, since you completed your school work. 

Mr. Salisbury. After school, I worked 20 months for Postal Tele- 
graph, and then I spent nearly 17 years with the Citizen Patriot, the 
news})aper. 

Mv. Ta\ enner. What type of newspaper work were you doing ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I am a printer. 

Mr. Tan'enner. Mv. Salisbury, according to information in the pos- 
session of the committee, vou were a member of the Communist Partv 
from 1941 until March of 1948 ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline to the committee briefly how you 
became a uiember of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Salisbury. Early in 1941 or late 1940, 1 had neighbors that were 
professed members^ 

Mv. Tavenner. IMembers of what ? 

Mr. Salisbury. The Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Salisbury. If I leave anything misunderstood, please ask me. 

After many social visits with them — I mean being next-door neigh- 
bors — they asked me to become a member. I didn't know what to 
think about it, and I was talking to a friend of mine that I worked with, 
and he was quite irritated over the fact aud thought I should write 
the authorities and see what they thought of it. And from there on, 
why. a man contacted me and we discussed it. I decided that I would 
do wliat I cculd to help. 



2834 COMAIU-XISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavennkr. What Government agency was it that^ — 

Mr. Salishuky. Michi<2,an State Police. 

Mr. Tavknner. The Michigan State Police? 

Mr. SALisiiURY. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavennkr. Well, what did you do after the Michigan State 
Police conferred with yon about the matter ? 

Mr. Salisbury. When the opportunity came and they asked me if 
I would join again, or asked me again if I would join, why, I said I 
would and became a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then is it true that during the entire period of your 
membership in the Communist Party you were acting in the capacity 
of obtaining information for the Michigan State Police ? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the time of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party, were you a member of any group or cell of the Com- 
munist Party other than at Jackson, Mich. ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. At the later part of my membership, I was a 
member of the State committee of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. We will come to that a little later. 

Who were the officers of the Jackson, Mich., branch of the Com- 
munist Party at the time you became affiliated with it ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I remember, it was Faye and Floyd Mc- 
Donnell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you spell the names, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I remember, it was M-c-D-o-n-n-e-l-l. 

Mr. Tavenner. What positions were held by them \ 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, it has been quite a while. I believe he was 
an organizer, and I don't remember what she held. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, as a member of the Jackson, Mich., branch 
of tlie Communist Party, ever become an officer ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Local? 

Mr. Tavenner. Of your group. 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, as such officer, become a delegate to the 
State committee meetings of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, the committee has in its possession 
copies of reports of meetings which you attended as a member of the 
Communist Party, which meetings were held in the city of Detroit. 
You have examined these reports within the last few daj^s; have you 
not? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have gone over them carefully ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. They were reports made by you as a result of the 
understanding you had with the Michigan State Police? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they nnide by you at the time of your attend- 
ance at the various meetings of which they purport to be a record? 

Mr. Salisbury. Or shortly after. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting on February 28, 1943 — 
that is, a meeting of the Communist Party — held at the Mirror Ball- 
room in Detroit, Mich. ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2835 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. Mr. Jess Whipple and I were delegates 

Mr. Tavenner. W-h-i-p-p-l-e ? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right. We represented the Jackson branch, 
and we traveled from Jackson, Mich., here with the McDonnells for 
the meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you advise the committee as to what happened 
at this meeting, and the identity of the officers, and all you can recall 
independently from your recollection and also all you can recall from 
having examined your notes made at that time. 

Mr. Salisbury. We arrived in Detroit about 10 o'clock in the morn- 
ing, and the meeting was called to order by John Little, about 11 : 40. 
At this time and for the majority of the time that I was in the Com- 
munist Party, being from an out-State club like Jackson, Mich., many 
individuals who spoke at the Communist convention were unknown to 
me; and, therefore, while I could report the happenings, the con- 
versations, I was unable to identify the speaker at that time. 

In many cases, I have never been able to identify the speaker. The 
purpose of the meeting — of the party meeting at that time — was to 
give local support for the war effort. This does not mean, however, 
that the Communist Party dropped all its other plans to assist in the 
war effort. 

The first speaker at this convention spoke with respect to the needs 
of the Communist Party for uniting workers in the CIO. While this 
was always one of the points stressed by the Communist Party, the 
emphasis for uniting workers, the point of view of the Communist 
Party was now placed upon the war effort. The speaker said that the 
main job today was to do away with Red-baiting. 

The next speaker was a Mr. Kristalsky,^ who was from Hamtramck, 
Mich., and who I understood at one time ran on the Communist Party 
ticket. For what office, I don't know. 

An unidentified male speaker spoke on the need of new recruits by 
the Communist Party. 

An unidentified woman spoke about the youth movement of the 
Communist Party and the need to increase the membership of the 
YCL, which is the Young Communist League. 

The next speaker I could identify was Jack Wliite, from the Pack- 
ard Motor Co. plant. 

Following him was another speaker, whose name was unknown, be- 
ing identified as being from the Plymouth plant in Detroit. 

After several speakers, whose identity I did not learn, John Little, 
organization secretary of the Communist Party of the State of Michi- 
gan in 1913, spoke. Little spoke, in addition to their interest in the 
war effort, of the recruiting in the Communist Party of the State of 
Michigan to date. He stated that, while the Communist Party had 
set for itself a modest quota of 500 new members, they had received 278 
members already. He broke this down into 213 auto workers, 130 
Negroes, and 46 women. 

He stated that in 1941 they recruited 86 members: in 1942, 50 
members ; and in 1943, to date, 278 members. 



1 George Kristalsky. 
97097— 52— pt. 1- 



2836 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. These figures were given by John Little at the 
State committee meeting of the Communist Party, which was lield on 
February 28, 1943, I believe you said. Is that correct? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right. 

Little spoke with respect to the rapid growth of the Communist 
Party at both the Packard Motor and Ford Motor car plants. He 
stated that 45 new members were assigned and recruited in the Ford 
foundry. 

Speaking of the circulation of the Worker, the Sunday newspaper 
of the Communist Party, Little stated that the Communist Party had 
increased the circulation from 1,900 to 3,500; that its quota was re- 
cently set at 650 new subscription. This quota, he said, had been 
passed with a total of 875 new subscriptions to date. 

Speaking of the youth and the activities of the Young Communist 
League, Little stated that the YCL had pledged 300 new members 
and that the party should get behind the YCL to assist them. He 
said, "I am pleased to report that we have 290 new recruits at this 
time." 

The next speaker was Mr. Black of the Ford Motor Co., section 
10. He stated that they have obtained, since October, 1942, 115 new 
members of the Communist Party within the Ford ]Motor section of 
the Communist Party. He stated that they had signed up 581 sub- 
scriptions to the Communist Party newspaper, the Worker, and had 
sold 580 copies of Earl Browder's book Victory and After. 

An unidentified male, who was identified as being from section 3 
of the Communist Party, the down river section, spoke next. He 
reported that the largest concentration of Communist Party members 
were within the membership of local 174, and that section 3 was com- 
prised of a membership of 110 workers. He stated that at the Cadillac 
Motor Car Co. plant they had recruited 20 new members. 

After lunch, Ann Beiswenger took over the announcement of the 
speakers. 

The speakers in the afternoon session were : A Mr. Sykes,^ of sec- 
tion 1 

Mr. Tavenner. S-y-k-e-s ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know, sir [continuing]. Of the East 
Side Communist Party group, an individual from the Ford Motor 
Co. whose identity I did not know, a representative from section 2 of 
the Communist Party from the East Side of Detroit, and an unidenti- 
fied woman. 

Pat Toohey spoke next. He was chairman 

Mr. Tavenner, Would you raise your voice just a little more, please. 

Mr. Potter. And possibly, if you spoke just a little slower, it would 
help. 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes, sir. 

Pat Toohey next spoke. Pat Toohey was chairman of the Com- 
munist Party for the State of Michigan, and he was followed by 
Roy Hudson. 

He was succeeded by a man by the name of Widmark,^ who identi- 
fied himself as being from Flint, Mich. 

The next speaker was David McKelvey White. 



1 Prank Sykes. 
* James Widmark. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2837 

Mr. Tavennek. Mr. Chairman, I believe that I did inform the com- 
mittee that he is now deceased. If I haven't, I think I should at 
this time. 

Mr. Salisbury. The next speaker, Norman Ross, spoke on the YCL. 

He was succeeded by James Ford, who at one time was Vice Presi- 
dential candidate of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, when did you next attend a meet- 
ing of the next Communist Party at Detroit? 

Mr. Salisbury. I next attended a State meeting of the Communist 
Party on August 29, 1943, upon invitation of Faye McDonnell. This 
meeting was held at the Connnunist Party headquarters, then located 
on the corner of Grand River and Vernor Highway. 

The meeting started at about 1 : 30 p. m., and was opened by John 
Little, who immediately turned the gavel over to an individual whose 
identity I did not know, who was represented as being from the 
Plymouth local. 

The first speaker was Miss Adeline Cole of Detroit, Mich. She 
spoke of the dissolution of the Young Communist League. She stated 
that there is a need now for an organization in which youths might 
express anti-Fascist views and rebuild the future; that it was now 
the time to consolidate the YCL with other youth groups that do not 
wish to be connected with the Communists. 

She stated that the method of reorganization of various youth 
groups had not yet been decided and are open for opinions and sug- 
gestions. She stated that tlie new organization was not to have a 
program of communism or Marxism, but stated that this was not a 
retreat to hide the Communist name, because Communists were never 
accepted before as they are today. 

She stated that the last YCL convention would be held in New York 
City, and that it would cost approximately $1,000 to send 25 delegates 
from Michigan to New York, and that after this convention in New 
York there would be no more YCL. She said, of course, after the 
change, the young people would not want to use the Communist head- 
quarters as their meeting place; so, after October 15 and 16, a new 
meeting place would have to be found, and she concluded by saying that 
no Communist organization was to be within this new organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Pat Toohey was the next speaker. He spoke on 
the political situation and placed specific emphasis on four main 
meetings which were to be held in the near future : 

(1) Meeting of the Youth Movement in October; 

(2) The UAW convention to be held in October in Buffalo, N. Y. ; 

(3) The election campaigns; and 

(4) The Civil Rights Conference, which was to be held Septem- 
ber 12, 1943, at the Masonic Temple, Detroit. 

Mr. Toohey stated that John Little, the organizer, was ready to go 
into the Army. 

Nat Ganley, identified as a member of Local 155 of the UAW, was 
the next speaker. His subject was the UAW convention. While his 
theme was entitled "Win the War," he pointed out the necessity of 
members of the Communist Party who were delegates to the national 
UAW convention, of the loyalty to the party, by carrying the correct 
line to the convention and the efforts that they should spend to win 
over delegates to unity. 



2838 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

He stated that while Reiither and Leonard were now in the "Win the 
War" camp, some of their policies were not so concrete. 

The next speaker, identified from Plymouth Local 51, who was 
called "Barney" by various members present, spoke on the union 
elections at the Plymouth plant. 

The other speakers were Ann Beiswenger, James Widmark, of 
Flint, Mich.; a young lady of Briggs Aircraft, Local 742; and John 
Little. 

The meeting was adjourned at 6 p. m. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me a moment. See if you can raise your 
voice a little more. I am certain it is difficult to hear you. Then, if 
you will slow your speech, it will help a great deal. 

Mr. Salisbury. Okay. I am sorry. 

Mr. TAvenner. I will remind you of that from time to time. Just 
slow up a little. 

Mr. Salisbury. Following the adjournment, Faye McDonnell ad- 
vised John Little that I was to be the next organizer of the Jackson 
branch of the Communist Party, taking the place of her husband, 
i loyd McDonnell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, did you take over at this time, as 
organizer of the Communist Party of the Jackson branch? 

Mr. Salisbury. No; I did not. I just didn't feel I could recruit 
people from the outside to become members, when I didn't believe 
m it myself. 

jVIr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, did you, on ]\Larch 5, 1944, attend 
a meeting of the State committee of the Communist Party in Lansing, 
Mich.? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes; I did. 

This meeting was originally scheduled for room 536, Tussing Build- 
ing, Lansing, and was changed to the Spartan Eoom in the Olds Hotel. 

Upon arriving at the Olds Hotel, we learned that the meeting had 
again been changed from the Spartan Eoom to the East Room. 

Accompanied by George Ahrens 

Mr. Ta\'Enner. Would you spell the last name, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, I don't know if I can spell it right, but I will 
try : A-h-r-e-n-s. 

Accompanied by George Ahrens, Floyd McDonnell, and Faye Mc- 
Donnell, we arrived at about 10 : 10 a. m. Upon arrival, we met Pat 
Toohey, Ann Beiswenger, David McKelvey White, and Art Braun- 
lich, the new out-State organizer for the Communist Party of Mich- 
igan. He was described as a former professor from New York State. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Art Braunlich appointed to succeed Jack 
White, who had about that time been drafted to enter the armed serv- 
ices ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As near as I can recollect, he succeeded Jolin 

Little. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Will you proceed to describe what oc- 
curred at this meeting. 

Mr. Salisbury. The meeting was opened by Faye McDonnell, of 
Jackson, who had recently been elected State chairman of the Com- 
munist Party. She introduced Comrade Higdon,^ from Muskegon 



1 Hoke Higdon. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2839 

and he took over and acted as chairman for the remainder of the 
meeting, n <• i 

Pat Toohey was the first speaker. Toohey spoke generally ot tlie 
war and the cooperation which we owed to success. However, lie 
told us that we were to expect a new world to come from the victories, 
and stated that the Marxists will have their part in this new world. 

Toohey was followed by Art Braunlich, who reviewed Toohey's 
talk and dealt with the work of recruiting to make possible the re- 
quest of Toohey, that if the Communist Party of Michigan 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. Slow down a little, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. I am sorry. 

To make possible the request of Toohey, that if the Communist 
Party of Michigan had 5,000 members, it could be a powerful voice 
in the election throughout the State. 

The meeting was adjourned for lunch at 12 : 45 p. m., and at 2 : 05 
was opened by Higdon, with Ann Beiswenger being introduced as the 
first speaker. 

Mrs. Beiswenger dealt with the responsibilities which fell upon the 
Communists of Michigan and the need of unity among Michigan 
workers in the coming political election. She stated that more farmers 
should be brought into the Communist Party, and said, "Many are 
ready to join vfith us." She mentioned that 300 new members had 
been recruited in Michigan during the current drive. 

She mentioned some out-State branches, with new recruits listed 
as follows : Flint, 6 ; Jackson, 2 ; Pontiac, 2 ; Charlotte, 4 to 6 ; Benton 
Harbor, 2. 

As a method of recruiting, she advised that the clubs should make 
lists of all possible recruits, including many women ; that they should 
have recruiting meetings and socials ; and that they should particu- 
larly check all farmers whom they thought might be interested in 
joining the Communist Party. 

Beiswenger, in dealing with the role of the Communist Party in 
the State election, mentioned that they could not hope to be elected 
by running on the Communist ticket, but that they could win by 
running for office on other party ballots with labor behind them. 
She mentioned Ben Davis, of New York City, as holding a place on 
the New York City Council as a good example of this. 

Beiswenger brought up the changing of the name of the Communist 
Party, which was eventually changed to Communist Political Asso- 
ciation, and stated that under the new name they would carry out 
their leading role as Marxists. She said, "We, as Communists, are 
able to understand the changes in the world through our literature." 

Ann Beiswenger opened her talk to a question period and was ques- 
tioned by Jim Frazier, of Charlotte, Mich.; Mr. Davey,^ of Grand 
Rapids, Mich. ; and Larry Blyth, of Marine City, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. B-1-y-t-h? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. 

Faye McDonnell, of Jackson, Mich., was the next speaker, and she 
was followed by Casper Kennedy, of Flint, Mich., who spoke on the 
refusal of the radio in Flint to allow a subversive organization to 
broadcast. 



* Fred Davey. 



2840 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Kennedy was followed by David White, of Detroit, who spoke on 
the Daily and Sunday Worker. 

Jim Frazier, of Charlotte, Mich., talked on recruiting. 

Other speakers were: Jim Widmark, Flint, Mich.; William Glenn, 
Gi-and Rapids, Mich.; and Art Braunlich, new out-State organizer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the person mentioned, William 
Glenn : A subpena has been issued, but the committee has not been 
successful in having it served.^ 

You may proceed. During the period of time that you acted as 
secretary of the Jackson branch of the Communist Party, were you 
also treasurer of the organization ? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right, secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Secretary-treasurer was all one office? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you hold the position of secretary- 
treasurer ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I think it was about the winter of 1943 on to 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you continue in that position after the Com- 
munist Political Association resumed its former identity as the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Salisbury, That is correct, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, a report of yours dated November 6, 
1944, deals with a meeting of the Jackson branch of the Communist 
Party, which was held at the home of Jess and Ida Whipple, 1535 Fala- 
hee Road, Jackson, Mich., on November 3, 1944. You reported that at 
this meeting, Ronald Mcintosh accepted nomination as chairman of 
the Jackson group. 

You also identified certain other individuals as being present. 
Would you give us their names ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, Eva — that was Eva Pitcher. She, the last I 
knew, went to Saginaw. Matilda and Ronald Mcintosh, man and 
wife, Floyd McDonnell, Ida Whipple, and myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a Browder meeting held at the 
Gi-aystone ballroom, Detroit, Mich., on April 5, 1945 ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify for the commitee the speakers at 
this rally. 

Mr. Salisbury. Nat Ganley made a short opening speech and intro- 
duced a man by the name of Green,^ from Ford local. 

uVnother individual from Ford, whose last name is McPhaul.^ 

IVIcPhaul was followed by Frank Novak, who at that time was a 
clerk in Judge O'Brien's^ court. 

Byron Edwards, chairman of the PAC, local 600 ; and Earl Browder 
were among the speakers at this rally. 

INIr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is a good place for a break, if 
you wish. 

]\Ir. Wood. You mean for lunch ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is only 12 o'clock. I had planned to go at 12 : 30. If 
we quit now, we will quit until 1 : 30. 



^ S(»e Communism. In the Detroit Area — Part 2, pp. , for testimony of William 

Glenn. 

" I'ressley Green. 
•' Arthur McPhaul. 
* Patrick H. O'Brien. 



COMAIUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2841 

The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 30. 

(Wliereupon, at 12 noon, the hearing was recessed until 1 : 30 p. m., 
this same day. ) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

INIr. "Wood. The committee will come to order. 

Let the record disclose that there are present the following mem- 
Tiers of the committee : Messrs. Jackson, Potter, and Wood which con- 
stitutes a quorum. 

Are you ready to proceed, counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Salisbury, did you attend a state conference of the Communist 
Political Association on April 22, 1945, at Jericho Temple, Detroit, 
Mich. ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you identify for the committee those who 
spoke at the occasion ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, the meeting was opened by Pat Toohey. 

Toohey was followed by Nat Ganley, vice president and member 
of the state committee of the Communist Political Association. 

Pat Toohey then introduced two soldiers, Private First Class Searles 
and Pvt. Leslie Dolman, whom he identified as an individual who 
wears a Purple Heart. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does Searles spell his name S-e-a-r-1-e-s ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. Most of the names I had to get 
phonetically ; so I don't know. 

Following the introduction, two women spoke, whose identity I 
was unable to learn. 

They were followed by Jack Raskin. 

Fred Williams of Bohn Aluminum, then spoke and urged the elec- 
tion of the Eeverend Charles Hill to the common council. 

Williams was followed by an unidentified man from the Plymouth 
local, who in turn was followed by an unidentified young woman who 
spoke on the AYD and announced that the young people in the AYD 
were looking up and asking their elders in the Communist Political 
Association for advice. 

The other speakers at the morning session were Jerry Boyd and 
Hoke Higdon of Muskegon, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think it is well for the record to 
«how the information that the committee has with regard to the in- 
dividual Hoke Hiodon. Our information is that he has been expelled 
from the Communist Party and is no longer a member. 

Mr. Salisbury. After the luncheon recess, an unidentified man from 
the midtown club of the Communist Political Association was the first 
speaker. 

He was followed by Pressley Green, who in turn was followed by 
James Keller. 

At 2 : 35 p. m., Jerry Boyd opened the meeting for discussion. 

Following this, Jerry Boyd asked all to help in the nomination of 
Reverend Hill. Following the discussion period, the following in- 
dividual spoke : Ike Greenberg : an individual by the name of Russell,^ 



' Russell Coppock. 



2842 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

whose last name at that time I did not know, from Flint, Mich. ; Shirley 
Ross; Bill McKie, vice president of the Communist Political 
Associ a ti on 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the proper spelling of Mr. McKie's name M-c- 
K-i-e? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. 

There was Bill McKie wlio spoke on the concentration among the 
Ford employees. He stated that they had 200 or 300 members at Ford, 
but that only 30 to 50 attended meetings, and that there were only 7 at 
the convention. 

Following McKie, speeches were made by Jess Parrish ; John Wil- 
liamson, representing the national committee of the Communist Po- 
litical Association ; and Art McPhaul. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, on July 22, 1945, did you attend a 
State convention of the Communist Political Association held in De- 
troit, Mich, at 114 Erskine Street ? 

Mr. Saliscury. Yes. I accompanied Faye McDonnell, another 
delegate to this meeting. The meeting was opened at 9 : 55 a. m., by 
Bill McKie. 

The first order of business was the nomination for the chairman of 
the morning session. Those nominated were : Jerry Boyd ; Nat Gan- 
ley ; William McKie ; Maurice Cook ; Hoke Higdon ; and Paul Boatin. 

All declined to McKie. The motion was made to accept McKie, 
and he was nominated. Nominated as secretary for the convention 
were: Tom Dombrowski; Jerry Boyd; Nelson Davis; Laura Kelly; 
Mattie Woodson ; and a man named Showerman.^ 

Jerry Boyd accepted the nomination. All others declined and Mr» 
Boyd was nominated. 

Nominations were accepted for membership for the rules committee. 
Committee delegates were nominated, and 14 accepted. The follow- 
ing accepted nominations to the rules committee : Laura Kelly, Mid- 
town Club ; Shapiro, Southfield ; Bob Washington, First Congressional 
District; Helen Allison, Midtown Club; Paul Endicott, Midtown 
Club; Paul Henley, Midtown Club; Hoke Higdon, Muskegon; Tom 
Dombrowski, Hamtramck; a man named Campbell from Ben Davis 
Club ; James Widmark, Flint ; Fred Field, Grand Rapids. 

Nominations for the election committee was the next order of busi- 
ness. Those elected were : Maurice Cook ; Jerry Boyd 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Please, not quite so rapidly with names. 

Mr. Salisbury. A man by the name of McAllister — — 

Mr. Tavenner, Did you say McAllister? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right. 

Then there were G. Adiken 

Mr. Tavenner. A-d-i-k-e-n ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. Then there was Savola ; ^ Gan- 



ley ; ^ Henley- 
Mr. Taa^nner. Is Savolia spelled S-a-v-o-l-i-a? 
Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. I repeat Ganley, Henley, Fer- 
ris, and Rose Banks. 



^ Glen Showerman, 14751 Qnincy, Detroit, Mich. 
2 Matt Savola, Iron River, Mich. 
« Nat Ganley. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2843 

Mr. Tavenner. Because of the speed you went in naming the per- 
sons who Avere nominated to the rules committee, I am going to ask you 
to give those names over again. I believe the first name you gave 
us was Laura Kelly. Would you mind giving us those names again 
and more slowly, please ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Laura Kelly 

Mr. Tavenner. What club? 

Mr. Salisbury. Midtown. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Salisbury. Shapiro, Southfield Club 

Mr. Taa'enner. Speak a little louder, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. Bob Washington, First Congressional District; 
Helen Allison, Midtown Club; Paul Endicott, Midtown Club; Paul 
Henley, Midtown Club ; Hoke Higdon, INIuskegon ; Tom Dombrowski, 
Hamtramck; a man named Campbell, Ben Davis Club; James Wid- 
mark, Flint; Fred Field, Grand Rapids. 

Carl Winter, to be the new chairman of the Communist Party of 
Michigan, spoke as the first speaker starting at 11 : 05. 

After a speech and extended report by the rules committee, the 
conference recessed for lunch. 

Nominations for afternoon chairman were: Foss Baker and Hoke 
Higdon. Higdon withdrew in favor of Baker, and his nomination 
was accepted. 

Speakers at the afternoon session were: Dick Jones, Nat Ganley, 
John Hell of the Michigan Avenue Club, Harry Fainaru, John 

Mr. Tavenner. F-a-i-n-a-r-u? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. 

Now, continuing John Anderson, local 155 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that last syllable o-n ? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I know. 

Continuing Merle Work, Ray Blossom, Ruth Dombrowski, James 
Ford, Jim Widmark, Bob Washington, Tom Dombrowski, a girl whose 
last name was Campbell, Laura Kelly, and Mattie Woodson. 

Mattie Woodson gave the attendance at the conference as follows : 
26 clubs represented, 166 delegates, 23 alternates, and 26 visitors. 

The general vein of this convention was to have all members of 
the Communist Party, including Carl Winter, to devote a considerable 
portion — as a matter of fact, in most cases, all of their time to apolo- 
gize for the mistakes that they had made by changing the Communist 
Party to the Communist Political Association. 

Mr, Ta\^nner. Mr. Salisbury, on July 17, 1946, there appears from 
your report to have been a meeting of the Jackson branch of the Com- 
munist Party at your home at 1405 South Milwaukee Street, Jackson, 
Mich. 

Will you tell us about that, please ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. The principal speaker at this meeting was 
Ann Beiswenger, Detroit, the wife of Hugo Beiswenger, a native of 
Jackson. The topic of her discussion was entitled "What Is 
Socialism?" 

During the question period, Ann Beiswenger was asked, "Why are 
the Marxist-Leninist principles especially valuable today?" After 
much discussion, Ann pointed out that the United States is an im- 
perialistic nation, and she stated, "It is the main threat to world peace." 

With respect to recruiting, Ann Beiswenger pointed out that under 



2844 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

the period of revisionism which they had used themselves during the 
days of the Communist Political Association, that the Communist 
Party had recruited 20,000 members who were of poor quality; that 
Jackson, Mich., and the rest of the State of Michigan should concen- 
trate on reregistering only the individuals determined to be good 
members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do your notes reflect who attended this meeting at 
your home on July 17, 1946 ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. There were Harry Boskey; George Ahrens; 
Ida and Jess Whipple ; Eva Pitcher ; Omar Kidwell ; George B. Hunt, 
who was a visitor ; Ann Beiswenger ; Carolina Stearns, now deceased ; 
and that is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of George B. Hunt as being a visitor. 
Was he a resident of Jackson ? 

Mr. Salisbury. At that time. I don't know where he is now. 

Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would tell the committee whether he did 
become a member of the party or not. 

Mr. Salisbury. To my knowledge and recollection, I don't believe 
he did. He attended two or three meetings and never showed up again. 

Mr. Ta\ti;nner. Did you attend a meeting of the State committee of 
the Communist Party at the Civic Center, Detroit, Mich., on August 
4,1946? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you please tell us what occurred there ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I arrived late at this meeting, about a quarter to 11, 
At the time I arrived, Nat Ganley was already on the floor. Ganley 
was talking about Communists in unions. He pointed out that the 
Schneiderman decision pointed to the right of members of the Com- 
munist Party to hold union cards. He also discussed the anti-Red 
clause in the constitutions of unions. 

He spoke on the PAC and of getting the unions to back and endorse 
Communist candidates, but stated that trade unionists were not yet 
ready to endorse the Communist Party. 

Following Ganley, there was a short recess. Following the recess, 
the speakers were: Merle Work; John Issacs of the AFL; an un- 
identified man from Flint whom I understood worked at Chevrolet; 
a white man from Ford Local 600, who was on the steering committee 
of the local as a known Communist; a man by the name of Sykes,^ 
and Helen Allison. 

Helen Allison, during her speech, told of what she described as 
terrorist attempts against Communists. She pointed out that Flint 
was the main concentration camp under the current organizing drive 
of the Communist Party. 

She commended Harry Boskey for his excellent out-State organ- 
ization, stating that they have 125 active new progressive members, 
and at the same time pointed out that the quality of members was 
improving. 

Helen Allison's speech was interrupted by a lunch recess. After 
she finished, there was a short recess and after the recess, the following 
individuals were speakers : Abner Berry 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, Abner Berry is the person for whom 
the banquet was given as referred to when Reverend Hill was on the 
witness stand. 



1 Frank Sykes. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2845 

Will you proceed, please ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Berry was followed by Jerry Boyd, Joe Brandt, 
Hugo Beiswenger, Harry Boskey, Matt Savola. There were many 
individuals that I did not know the identity of who also spoke. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Carl Winter, chairman of the Communist Party 
of the State of Michigan, speak during this conference? 

Mr. Sausbury. Yes. Winter's speech dealt mostly with the ability 
of the Communist Party members to stand their ground in the face 
of criticism. He cited the need for a good sound program and the need 
for more work among the Jewish people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the State Committee 
of the Communist Party of Michigan on April 13, 1947, at 114 Erskine 
Street, which place I believe is known as the Civic Center ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. This meeting was opened at 10 : 45 a. m. by 
Carl Winter, with Jerry Boyd being nominated as chairman. 

The first speech was made by Carl Winter. During the course of his 
speech, he covered many problems in the Michigan area which was 
of importance to the Communist Party. He devoted a considerable 
portion of his time to what he considered to be Red-baiting attacks 
upon the Communist Party of the United States. He stated that 
J. Edgar Hoover was behind it all because Hoover was interested in 
starting another branch of the Government, which he described as the 
"Supreme Political Police." He dealt with the refusal of Wayne 
University to bar AYD as a student organization. He talked about 
the Ford local election and pointed out the fact that William Mclvie 
received the highest number of votes, even though he is known to be 
a Communist. 

He urged the members of the State committee to rally behind and 
support the Civil Rights Federation. Winter pointed out that they 
were suffering from a lack of finances, and if they were not helped, 
that it might ]ust disappear overnight. He called for the members to 
obtain donations to the Civil Rights Federation from trade unions. 

Dealing with registration. Winter expressed disappointment at the 
fact that only 1,600 members had been registered in the State of Michi- 
gan up to that time. He called for increasing subscriptions to the 
Michigan Herald to 6,000. 

Following Carl Winter, the following individuals spoke: Merle 
Work ; William Allan ; Fred Williams ; Jack Gore, a student from Ann 
Arbor; a man from local 208; Helen Allison; Harry Fainaru; and 
Joe Brandt; and an identified individual, whose subject was "Witch 
Hunts and Red-Baiting at Wayne University." 

At 12 : 28 p. m., an unidentified man took the floor and claimed that 
the Communist Party was organized more in the out-State area of 
Michigan ; that they must make cases of police brutality. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was referred to in "make cases of police 
brutality" ? Wliat do you mean ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I don't recollect the instances, but there were in- 
stances where I believe some Negroes had been handled roughly by 
the police. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way? Do you recall? Do you recall in 
what way they referred to the "making of cases of police brutality" ? 

Mr. Salisbury. I don't know for what reasons the police and the 
individuals were in contact with each other, but the police, according 



2846 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

to them, had abused them bodily and they were trying to make an 
example of police methods, unorthodox methods. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you continue, please? 

JNIr. Salisbury. At 1 : 55 p. m., after a luncheon recess, Billy Allan 
took the floor and discussed the drive for raising funds to fight what 
he described as Red-baiting. He told of raising $12,000 in the State 
of Michigan and $250,000 in the United States, and that the party was 
hoping to reach a goal of $35,000 for the State of Michigan alone. 

During a 5-minute discussion wliich followed Allan's speech, Harry 
Boskey stated that on the way to Saginaw, he had stopped in Pontiac 
and met with some fellow Communists, and that before he left Pontiac 
he had $200 in collections, and he never did get to go to Saginaw. 

Billy Allan was followed by Gore from Ann Arbor. (lore spoke of 
the $150 which they had raised, and that their expectations were to 
raise $1,200 in Ann Arbor alone. 

A man from Grand Rapids, whose identity I did not learn, spoke 
next and stated that in Grand Rapids they had collected $850. 

An unidentified girl followed Gore, reporting for 12 clubs in the 
northwest section of Detroit, stating that $2,100 had been pledged, 
with two clubs not reporting. 

This young lady was followed by Joe Brandt from Flint, Mich., who 
stated that no collections had been made in Flint because of bad 
weather and poor work. 

Brandt was followed by an unidentified man from the Ford section 
of the Communist Party, who said that the request from the Ford 
section members of $900 was low, as the Communist Party had 225 
members at Ford. 

Widmark,^ from Flint, was the next speaker, and while he claimed 
that Flint was the best of the three towns, he stated that the collections 
from these towns would be small. 

It was then proposed that the report of Billy Allan to raise $35,000 
be accepted. The motion was put and carried. 

A statement was made that $23,000 should be raised by May 4. 

A report was then made by Phil Schatz on the recruiting of new 
Communist Party members, and this report was accepted. Other 
speakers during the afternoon session were : Helen Allison, Merle 
Work, Harry Fainaru, James Jackson, and several other individuals 
whose identity I did not learn. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a Michigan State convention of the 
Communist Party on December 13 and 14, 1947 ? 

]\Ir. Salisbury. Yes. As I recall the circumstances which led up to 
my attendance at this convention, I was told to report to a house at 
2691 Pingree in Detroit. But when I got there, it was the home of 
Phil Raymond. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whose house that was ? 

]\Ir. Salisbury. Yes, Phil Raymond's. There were several other 
members of the party in the State there. On arriving at this house, 
there were present, in addition to myself, Hoke Higdon of Muskegon ; 
Florence Kneip — I am not sure of the last name — two unidentified 
men from Benton Harbor, Mich. ; and a man from a small settlement 
outside of Kalamazoo. 



^ James Widmark. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2847 

From this house we were taken to 2705 Joy Eoad, where the meet- 
ing was held. The meeting started at 6 : 30 p. m., with about 30 or 35 
individuals in attendance. 

Carl Winter, chairman of the Communist Party for the State of 
Michigan, opened the meeting by asking for the nomination of a 
chairman. I nominated Foss Baker of Lansing. After two or three 
other nominations were declined, Foss Baker was elected chairman 
for the evening. 

The purpose of the meeting was to discuss ways of increasing the 
Communist Part}^'s fund in Michigan and to step up their drive for 
increasing subscriptions to the Daily Worker and Sunday Worker, 
and for their publication, the Michigan Herald. 

Also discussed during this meeting was the organizing of a third 
party with Henry Wallace as a candidate for President. 

It was also pointed out that Walter Reuther, now in power in the 
UAW, was causing a great deal of difficulty for the Communists, 
this difficulty being described as their inability to keep their current 
members and of recuiting new ones. 

Phil Schatz spoke and pointed out how the Communist Party of 
Michigan must watch out for spies, and used as an example how a, 
woman in another State was active in her home club, became presi- 
dent, and was later discovered to be a police spy. Schatz pointed out 
that she lived in the same building with him, and that he saw her 
quite frequently. He used this case to illustrate that the Communist 
Party can never know who it can trust. 

The second session of this conference was to be held at a new loca- 
tion for security reasons. The new meeting place was at 275 East 
Ferry, a building known as the Craftsmen's Club. 

The meeting of December 14, was opened at 10 : 30 by Carl Winter, 
who announced that the board had recommended Fred Williams as 
chairman for that day. 

Schatz was the first speaker and his speech dealt largely with re- 
registration. He pointed out that to date only 1,000 or 2,100 had been 
reregistered. He stated that the out-State clubs as of that time 
were doing a better job than the auto clubs in Detroit. 

After a recess for lunch, Carl Winter was given an hour and a 
half to report on a third party and putting the Communists on the 
ballot in Michigan. In touching on the subscription drives and 
money-raising campaigns, he announced that there would be a Janu- 
ary meeting of tlie Communist Party of the State on January 24 and 
25, probably in Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. The investigation of the committee shows that that 
meeting was held on the date referred to. 

Mr. Salisbury. Phil Schatz then reported on the fund-raising cam- 
paign and in dealing with the quota assigned to Michigan, he stated 
that the Communist Party expected each State committeeman to 
donate at least 1 week's pay, and all other members, a day's pay, 
in order that Michigan might reach its quota. To supplement the 
donations from members of the Communist Party, they discussed ways 
of raising money through bazaars, rummage sales, and club parties. 
One member even pointed out that she knew two artists who would 
undoubtedly donate pictures than could be sold. 



2848 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Discussing the Michigan Herald in a drive for a circulation of 10,000 
it was reported that even with this quota, the Communist Party of 
the State of Michigan would have a deficit of $8,000 to make up. 

Again they discussed the question of a third party and of the plans 
with the third party to hold a convention in June, at which time the 
platform and policies for the third party would be decided. 

At this time, party discipline and security was the subject of speakers 
and of debate. It was noted that at this particular meeting, a new 
policy had been adopted wherein no phone calls were to be made and 
no mail sent out with respect to the time and place of the meeting. 
It was announced that this procedure would be followed at all future 
meetings. 

It was also pointed out that the members of the Communist Party 
v.'?vQ to be extremely careful about all notes. It was pointed out that 
they should watch their mail and refrain from using the telephone 
when discussing names or other matters relating to the Conununist 
Party activities. 

Following the discussion on security, it was announced that all 
notes taken would be placed on the desk or be turned over to individ- 
uals who would pass through the audience for the purpose of gathering 
up notes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you at this point. Does your re- 
port of December 13 and 14 reflect the names of the individuals whom 
you recognized at the time as being in attendance at the convention ? 
Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you give them please ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Phil Schatz, Detroit; Jerry Bond, Detroit; James 
Jackson, Detroit; Ann and Hugo Beiswenger, Detroit; Bob Reed; 
Hoke Higdon, Muskegon; Nat Ganley, Detroit; William Allan, 
Detroit; Harry Fainaru, Detroit; Merle Work, Detroit; Tommy 
Dennis, Ypsilanti ; Henry Winston, National offices in New York; 
Cirl Winter, Detroit; Helen Allison; Fred Williams, Detroit; Jack 

Raskin, Detroit ; Jack White, Detroit 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. Con you give us any further in- 
formation regard the Jack White to whom you have referred to there? 
Mr. Salisbury. No. 
ISIr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

INIr. Salisbury. Foss Baker, Lansing; Florence Kneip, Traverse 
City ; Jack Gore, formerly of Ann Arbor, now Detroit, where he was 
employed at the Dodge plant. 

]Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Now, you have testified, Mr. Salisbury, that near 
tlie close of the meeting it was announced that all notes taken would 
b'^ placed on the desk or be turned over to individuals who would pass 
through the audience for the purpose of gathering them up. Well, did 
anything of an unusual character happen to you very soon after that? 
Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, tell the committee about it. 
Mr. Salisbury. After the meeting was adjourned and I was get- 
ting ready to leave, Fred Williams came over and grabbed me by the 
shoulder quite firmly and spun me around, and informed me rather 
roughly that I hadn't turned in all my notes. I reached in my pocket 
and gave him another notebook. Before I got out of the building, I 
was approached again and they said that I hadn't turned in the notes 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2849 

of the meeting of the night before. I told him that I knew that. I 
said that my notebook was at the hoteh They wanted to know what 
hotel. I told them the Tuller. He said, "Okay, we will go and get it." 

They loaded me in the car with the rest of them, at least 5 or 6, and 
they drove me downtown. When we got downtown, James Jackson 
was delegated to go with me up to my room. I picked up the key and 
went to my room and walked into the clothes closet and came out and 
handed him my note book. He thanked me and went on his way. 

'Mr. Tavenner. Was that all that occurred at that time ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, following this period of time, did anything 
else occur at a later date with reference to the notes which you had 
taken at these meetings ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. On March 26, 1948, Hugo Beiswenger from 
Detroit and George Ahrens, one of the leaders in the party at Jack- 
son, called upon me at my home for the purpose of 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that at your home in Jackson ? 

Mr. Salisbury. At my home on Milwaukee street. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Salisbury. For the purpose of picking up all records and monies 
of the local club, that were in my possession. After receiving the 
records, Hugo Beiswenger advised me that charges were being pre- 
ferred against me, and that I should appear in Detroit on Easter Sun- 
day for a hearing before the board. 

Mr. Tavenner. What board ? 

Mr, SxVLisBURY. The party board. I don't know what official title 
they held, but it was a hearing board of some type. I asked him what 
the charges were and he refused to tell me. 

So on March 28, or thereabouts, it was Easter anyway, I appeared 
before a board of the Communist Party which was composed of Fred 
Williams, James Jackson, Frank Sykes, and an unidentified man and 
woman. 

They questioned me about my notes which I have taken at the State 
committee convention held December 13 and 14. They asked me why 
I had taken such descriptive notes, such as listing the names of each 
speaker, rather than the subject matter. They asked me about my 
employment with tlie Jackson Citizen Patriot and what my union 
affiliations were; if I knew the name of the chief of police in Jackson, 
the number of police officers on the Jackson police force; why I put 
down the number of members in each club that were represented at 
the meeting of December 14, 1947 ; why I tore up my notes ; and why 
items which they considered to be expenses were placed in the notes. 

They also asked me about the notations of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reply to them ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, they asked me why the name of each speaker, 
rather than just the subject matter. I explained that I could give a 
better report when I got back to my own branch. They asked me 
about my employment with the Citizen Patriot. I was only a printer 
there. I had been there a long time, and this was my place of employ- 
ment. 

As to my union affiliations, I don't remember just what I was in the 
union at that time. I don't recall right now, but I did hold several 
offices in the union. They asked me the name of the chief of police, 



2850 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

and I told them Harry Bales. They asked me how I knew that, and 
I said, "You don't think anyone in Jackson doesn't know, since it is 
a small community." 

They asked me about the number of men on the police force which 
I had no idea of. They asked me why I put down the numbers or the 
number of each member in each club, which I said would be a more 
fully report to give the members back home. When they asked me 
why I tore up my notes in two, I said that I figured they weren't of 
any value anymore, so I destroyed them. They asked me why the ex- 
penses were listed, and I said that I kept a budget of all the expendi- 
tures I made, any personal expenditure. They asked me why the time 
was noted, and I said that it was merely a way to keep track of how 
the day was going and what part of the day it was that I had made 
this particular notation 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you have any further connections with 
the Communist Party after that time ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, no. I received a little mail, but I believe that 
was from the Civil Rights Congress. Evidently my name hadn't 
been stricken from that mailing list yet, because I receive no mail now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you expelled from the party upon their as- 
certaining the care that you exercised in recording what happened at 
their meetings ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, they asked me if I would be willing to come 
back to another hearing, and I told them that if it was possible and not 
too much of an inconvenience, that I would be glad to do so. I asked 
them about my status, and I received no answer and never heard from 
them again. 

Mr. Taatsnner. Did you get any official notice of your expulsion 
from the party ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Never. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Salisbury, have you made a record of the names 
of the members of the Communist Political Association at Jackson 
during the period of time when you were a member ? 

Mr. Salisbury. Of the political association, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give them to the committee, please? 

Mr. Salisbury. Leo Ploetchl 

Mr. Jackson. Spell that name, please. 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, as accurately as I can it is P-l-o-e-t-c-h-1 ; 
Matilda Mcintosh and Ronald Mcintosh; Bill Daley 

Mr. Jackson. Will you spell Daley, please? 

Mr. Salisbury. As far as I knew, it was D-a-1-e-y; Ginny Lee, 
L-e-e 

Mr. Ta\'Enne1i. Possibly I should ask you over what period of time 
these persons were members. Did some of these persons whose names 
you are mentioning carry over from the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation to the time of there activation of the Connuunist Party? 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Political Association came into 
being in 1944 and went out of existence in May 1945, 

Mr. Salisbury. Yes. Some of them carried over. 

Mr, Tavenner. Can you state, in the course of naming these per- 
sons, which carried over into the reactivated party? 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, some of them would be difficult without 
proper notes here, but some of them I am sure of. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2851 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go back and state again the names of those 
who were members of the Communist Political Association, and where 
you can be certain your own mind that they carried or that their 
membership carried over, I wish you would so state. 

Mr. Salisbury. Well, I believe Ploetchl did, and Mcintosh, both 
Matilda and Konald. They were man and wife. I don't remember 
about Bill Daley. I only saw him a couple of times. Ginny Lee, she 
carried over but dropped out. 

Mr. Jackson. Is that L-e-e? 

Mr. Salisbury. That is right. 

Hugo Beiswenger, Sr., and his wife, they carried over. Vida 
Drown, wlio is a daughter of Faye and Floyd McDonnell — Ida and 
Jess Whipple, I believe they carried over. Eva Pitcher went to 
Saginaw. Just when she went, I don't remember now. Roy and 
Leola Cones, they dropped out somewhere along the line. I forget 
where. George Ahrens carried over. Cliflford Potts and Doris 
Potts — Doris Potts was a daughter of Mcintosh, and they dropped 
out before Mcintosh. 

As far as Clyde Fish, I don't remember how long he was in. It 
wasn't very long. Then there were Al and Esther Bigford. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, do you desire to ask any questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

•Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter ? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. I wish to convey my thanks, 
however. 

Mr. Wood. Permit me to join in in that expression, and if there is 
no further interrogation by counsel, is there any reason why the 
witness can't be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Thank you very much, and you will be excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 

TESTIMONY OF FRED WILLIAMS 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Fred Williams? 

Mr. Williams. I request that there be no pictures taken until after 
I finish. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. Will you be sworn, please ? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Williams. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have counsel, Mr. Williams? 

Mr. Williams. I don't have counsel, but I don't want that to mean 
that I waive my right to have a counsel. • 

Mr. Wood. I was going to advise you that you still have that right, 
if you desire. 

IMr. Taat:nner. What is your name, please ? 

Mr. Williams. Fred Williams. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mr. Williams. I was born in Plymouth, Pa. ; May 7, 1906. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your education and training? 

97097 — 52 — pt. 1 10 



2852 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Williams. I went as far as about the eighth grade in school, 
and then I was compelled to go to work at the age of 13 to support my 
family, to help support the family of 10 I \yas brought into. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. Williams. Approximately 27 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your major employment since you 
have been in Detroit ? 

Mr. Williams. An auto worker. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where in auto work? 

Mr. Williams, Well, at the present time I am employed and have 
been employed for the last 2 years in the plant of the Bohn Aluminum 
Brass Corp. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that 2-year period, where were you em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Williams. You mean just prior to that? 

Mr. Tavenner, Yes. 

Mr. Williams. On that period, I wish to exercise my constitutional 
rights under the fifth amendment and refuse to answer, 

Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period do you wish to exercise 
your constitutional right to refuse to talk ? 

Mr. Williams. How far back do you want me to go ? If you want 
me to, I will start when I was 11 years old, when I went to work, and 
I will tell you what periods I don't want to talk about. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you this : How long a period prior to 
your employment at Bohn Aluminum is it, that you desire not to 
testify about? 

Mr. Williams. I give the same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner, Well, what was your employment prior to Bohn ? 

Mr. Williams, I give the same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1935, how were you employed ? 

Mr. Williams. I give the same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1936? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Taa^nner. 1937? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1938? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1939? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1940? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Between 1940 and your employment at Bohn ? 

Mr. Williams. Ditto. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by "ditto" ? 

INIr. Williams. Just to save you a little time; same answer, same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wayne Salisbury has testified before the com- 
mittee that you were acting as chairman of a meeting of the Commu- 
nist Party, a convention, in December, the 14tli or 15th, 1947, and that 
near the close of that meeting, all those present were directed to hand 
in their notes. Do you recall the incident ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2853 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you collect Mr. Salisbury's notes on that 
occasion ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Did you sit on the board to try him for the offense 
of recording the notes in your meeting ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name of Jack Wilson ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights and refuse to 
answer under my privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name of Jack Wilks ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand you to say that you had worked in 
the automobile trade or industry ? 

Mr. Williams. I would suggest that you ask the secretary to read 
back what I said. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I am asking you. 

Mr. Williams. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever an official of local 208 of the United 
Auto Workers ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is there anything about local 208 of the United 
Auto Workers which would possibly subject you to criminal prosecu- 
tion to admit you were a member of that local ? 

INIr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Williams, I hand you a program of the Michi- 
gan School of Social Science, spring term of 1950, and I will ask you 
to look at page 3 and see if you see there a list of the members of the 
board of directors. 

Mr. Williams. I see a mimeographed form here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you see there the list of the members of the board 
of directors ? 

Mr. Williams. I see a mimeographed form here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you see the members of the Board of directors ? 

Mr. Williams. I see a mimeographed form here. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all you can see ? 

Mr. Williams. I am compelled to see that when you shove it under 
my nose. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well then, would you tell the committee what you 
know about the formation of that school, how it was organized and 
who were interested in promoting it ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how the funds were raised for the 
carrying on of the work of that school ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tai-enner. Will you tell the committee, if you know, how the 
instructors were selected ? Will you tell the committee whether that 
was done, for instance, by the board of directors ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the paper in evidence and ask that 
it be marked "Williams Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It may be admitted. 



2854 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 



)5- 



(The document referred to was marked "Williams Exhibit No. 1 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Williams, I will read you the names of the 
board of directors appearing here, which you apparently were not 
able to see. 

They are : Christopher C. Alston ; Nat Ganley ; James E. Jackson^ 
Jr.; William McKie, and Fred Williams. 

Were you a member of the board of directors as reported here ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is listed below the names of the board of 
directors, the name of the executive director as Ann Beiswenger. Do 
you know whether she was active in the work of this school ? 

Mr. Williams. Same answer, same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph of Bereniece Baldwin 
and I will ask you if you 

Mr. Williams. You mean you are putting one over here. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean I am handing it to you. I will ask you if 
you know the person's photograph that appears there. 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you looked at the photogi*aph ? 

Mr. Williams. How can I help it when you shove it under my nose? 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever sit in at a Communist Party meeting, 
with Toby Baldwin ? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights and refuse to- 
answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period that you worked at Bohn Alumi- 
num, which I understand has been for the past 2 years, was there any • 
time in existence at that plant a Communist Party cell or unit, to- 
your knowledge? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights and refuse to 
answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have been in the past years, according to our- 
information, a delegate to the international convention of the United 
Automobile Workers from time to time; isn't that right? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights and refuse to- 
answer. 

Mr. Wood. Do you mean to say, sir, that under your oath to admit 
that you have been a delegate to a national convention of the Auto 
Workers of America, would incriminate you ? 

Mr. Williams. I understand that under the fifth amendment I don't 
have to testify against myself. 

Mr. Wood. Do you say that you claim your privilege because it 
would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Williams. I say that the fifth amendment, to my knowledge, 
gives me the right to refuse to testify against myself. When I am here, 
I interpret it as such. I am sure that when the framers of our Consti- 
tution and the Bill of Rights put that in there, they must have had 
in mind, such committees as this. 

Mr. Wood. There is only one provision of the fifth amendment, sir, 
that is pertinent to this inquirj^ at all, and that is the provision that 
says, "No person shall be required to give evidence against himself 
in any criminal investigation." 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2855 

When a man says that he harbors himself or clo'aks himself behind 
that provision of the amendment in order to refuse to answer a ques- 
tion, the answer to that question would tend to incriminate him or he is 
swearing falsely, one or the other. 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. I would say that a great many people in this area that 
belonged to the United Automobile Workers will take serious issue 
with you, that to be a member of it would incriminate anybody, and if 
it doesn't, under your answers there is but one conclusion. 

Mr. Williams. I will lay my case before the Auto Workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Obviously there is no use asking any questions hav- 
irig to do with Communist Party membership. Speaking as an indi- 
Tjdual on the committee, I believe the witness has been and is a func- 
tionary in the Communist Party. I am perfectly content also to 
have him lay his case before the loyal Americans in the United Auto- 
jiiobile Workers. 

Mr. Williams. I am perfectly willing to do so myself. 

Mr. Jackson. We are in full agreement on that. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask one more question. 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Williams. I exercise my constitutional rights under the fifth 
amendment, and again refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. We will stand in recess for 15 minutes. 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please. 

Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Who will you have next? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Elinor Maki. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Maki, will you please raise your hand and be sworn. 

Mrs. Maki. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemnly swear that the evidence that you give 
this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Maki. I do. . 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mrs. Maki ? 

TESTIMONY OF ELINOE MAKI, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, 

D. WILLIAM MAKI 

Mrs. Maki. I am, 

Mr. Wood. Will your counsel please identify himself to the reporter ? 
Mr. Maki. I am D. William Maki. I am an attorney and represent- 
ing my wife. 
Mr. Wood. Will you please give your office address ? 
Mr. Maki. 2700 Rochester. 



2856 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Wood. You are at liberty to confer together as often as you 
may desire. 

Mr. Maki. I would like to say at this time, I have conferred with 
the committee regarding the type of testimony that they can expect 
from my wife and I have given the answers and reasons therefor. 

Mr. Wood. We will have to obtain that information from the witness 
herself. Counsel cannot" speak for his client. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ? 

Mrs. Maki. Elinor Maki. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live ; Mrs. Maki ? 

Mrs. Maki. 2700 Rochester. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived there ? 

Mrs. Maki. About 5 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of Detroit? 

Mrs. Maki. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been you educational backgi'ound, Mrs, 
Maki? 

Mrs. Maki. I completed grade school, high school, 3 years of 
teachers' college and finished the work for the fourth year and did 
extension work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, briefly, what your 
employment has been in the past 10 years ? 

Mrs. Maki. I have been employed by the board of education. 

Mrs. Tavenner. For the city of Detroit ? 

Mrs. Maki. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time ? 

Mrs. Maki. Since 1929, September. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you referred to your educational training, 
did you take any educational work of any character in the State 
of California ? 

Mrs. Maki. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been to the State of California in recent 
years ? 

Mrs. Maki. I decline to answer 

Mr. Tavenner. On what grounds ? 

Mrs. Maki. Under my privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you traveled to any countries outside of the 
United States, and if so, when ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you married prior to your present marriage? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Ta-s^nner. Did you have the name prior to your present mar- 
riage of Elinor Laffery Cook and were you commonly known by that 
name? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Maki, a witness by the name of Richard F. 
O'Hair testified before this committee on Monday. I hand you a 
photograph of him and first of all, I will ask you to examine the photo- 
graph and state whether or not you can identify him as a person you 
have known. 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair, whose photograph appears in the pic- 
ture that I gave you, has testified before the committee that you were 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2857 

a member of the Midtown Club of the Communist Party of the State 
of Michigan. Was he stating the truth about that when he so testi- 
fied, or is that false ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair has also stated in his testimony that 
you served as a member of the east side council of the Communist 
Party at the time that he served on that council, is that true or is it 
false? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you, at any time, been a member of the east 
side council of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that aiiestion. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry ; I did not hear you. 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have also been identified by Mr. O'Hair a& 
the membership director of the Midtow^n Club of the Communist 
Party. Did you serve as membership director of the Midtown Club 
or any other club of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. It has also been testified to by Mr. O'Hair that 
Joseph Bernstein w^as the individual to whom membership directors 
were required to make their returns. Were you acquainted with Mr. 
Joseph Bernstein? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that a.uestion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Another witness, by the name of Mr. Walter Dunn^ 
appeared before this committee and identified you as the member of 
the Midtown Club of the Communist Party. Was he correct in that 
identification ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know ]\Ir. Dunn ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1935? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph of Mrs. Bereniece Bald- 
win, and ask you to look at it and state whether or not you can identify 
her as a person known to you ? 

INIrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that oiiestion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meet- 
ing at which she was present? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that a.uestion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, on October 8, 1948, attend a meeting spon- 
sored by the Michigan State Communist Party at 2940 Woodward 
Avenue in the city of Detroit, at which meeting the principal speaker 
was Benjamin Davis? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in a meeting on that occasion 
or any other time, the purpose of which was to raise funds for the 
defense of the 11 Communists on trial in the Federal court in New 
York City? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 



2858 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Ta'st.nner. Were you ever active in the solicitation of funds 
for that purpose ? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you make any contributions yourself for that 
purpose? 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. In asking you the question about the contribution 
of funds for the defense of the Communists, I am not so much inter- 
ested as to whether you did as I am in learnino; the circumstances under 
which you may have been led to do it by other persons. Will you 
change your answer ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

]\Irs. INIaki. I refuse to answer that question, the question implied 
in that statement ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

ISIrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Wood. You had already asked her that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I thought that I asked it only up 
to 1935. I did not mean to repeat it. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

]Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

]\Ir. Potter. No questions. 

Mrs. Maki. I have a statement I would like to read. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Maki, for the past several years you have been en- 
gaged as a teacher in the school here ; have you not ? 

Mrs. Maki. That is right. 

Mr. Wood. In that capacity you have had under your care many 
of the young children of this community ; have you not ? 

Mrs. Maki. A large number. 

Mr, Wood. I have an idea that the parents of these children, a great 
many of them at least, and I hope all of them, are conscious of the 
purposes of the Communist movement in this country which is 
ultimately to destroy the Government based on the Constitution; a 
provision of which you invoke here as your protection against being 
required to answer questions as to your connection therewith. Has it 
occurred to you that you are doing a very gi*eat disservice in disillu- 
sioning the children that you have been working with here in these 
schools for these many years by your action now in declining to give 
full and public information as to your actions and conduct in con- 
nection with this conspiracy to overthrow the Government. I would 
just like to know how you feel about it. Do you desire to comment 
at all ? If not, I will not press the question. 

Mrs. Maki. Only to say I have carried out my duties to the best of 
iny ability during all my employment as a school teacher. 

Mr. Wood. I am told you have been a very excellent teacher and 
to that extent I am sure that you have been but I was just wondering 
if you had become conscious now of the very grave inj ustice that you 
are doing to those pupils that have been under your guidance and 
■control, particularly those of them which I am sure their parents rec- 
ognize the seriousness of this menace posed by the Communist Party 
and its movement in America that in thus refusing to disclose their 
activities in connection with which you have been identified — whether 
there are such activities I am not saying — you have been given an 
opportunity to say your say in the highest forum that a person could 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2859 

have in America, and that is the forum of the Congress of the United 
States, of which this committee is a subcommittee. 

Mrs. Maki. In my opinion, 1 have done nobody an injustice in all my 
life. I have striven very hard not to. 

Mr. Wood. If you were in fact in the past, or if you are now in 
fact a member of this Communist movement with all its implications 
and its impact upon the free government, when everybody knows 
that it is dedicated to the destruction of that sort of government 
everywhere in the world, then you are doing a very grave injustice 
to every child that you have had under your control. I personally 
regret very exceedingly that you have taken this attitude, whether 
you have been a member of it, or whether you have not been. How- 
ever, there is not anything this committee can do about it. You are 
within your constitutional rights under the Constitution and under 
the decision of the courts of this land in thus cloaking yourself be- 
hind this provision of the American Constitution. I hoped that you 
would be interested in preserving that Constitution. 

Mrs. Maki. I have a statement for the committee. 

Mr. Jackson. Supplementing what the chairman has had to say, 
I think it should be a matter in the record at this time that this com- 
mittee, during the period of time I have been a member of this commit- 
tee, has made every possible effort to assist in the social, political, and 
economic rehabilitation of those who have come forward frankly and 
given the committee the benefit of the information they have with 
respect to the Communist Party and its operations. A number of 
the witnesses have chosen not to do that and they have, by their own 
actions, and by no action of this committee, destroyed themselves. 
They have destroyed themselves in their own professional field and 
I regret it very much. I am sorry that when you leave the hearing 
room today there will be a very great doubt in the minds of a great 
many of the parents of the students whom you had under instruction 
as to whether or not a member of the Communist Party is qualified to 
be an objective teacher and whether or not she is qualified to instruct 
their children. However, that is a decision that you yourself have 
made, Mrs. Maki, and a decision that cannot be charged to the com- 
mittee. 

Would you mind telling the committee where you have spent the 
last 5 or 6 days ? 

Mrs. Maki. I was out of town. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you mind telling the committee where you 
were? 

Mrs. Maki. I would. 

Mr. Jackson. You do object ? 

Mrs. Maki. I would mind. 

Mr. Jackson. You refuse to tell the committee ? 

Mrs. Maki. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you within the confines of the United States? 

Mrs. Maki. I was. 

Mr. Jackson. You were not out of the country ? 

Mrs. Maki. No. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Have you been out of the United States within the past 
12 months? 



2860 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Maki. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Wood. During the past 2 years ? 

Mrs. Maki. I may have gone to Windsor for dinner. 

Mr. Wood. Have you ever been in the country of jSIexico, to the 
south of the United States ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Maki. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one other ques- 
tion. 

Mrs. Maki, the witness who was on the stand just preceding you was 
Wayne Salisbury. He occupied a position in the Communist Party 
somewhat on a similar basis as to that which Mr. O'Hair stated at one 
time you occupied with regard to membership duties. I have before 
me a photostatic copy of a letter bearing date of October 21, 1947, 
signed legibly by Toby Baldwin and addressed to, "Dear Comrade 
Wayne," in which she was introducing herself as being responsible 
for the collection of dues. I would like for you to examine this photo- 
static copy and state whether or not you at any time received or at any 
time saw a similar notice. 

(Document was handed to witness.) 

Mrs. Maki. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I am going to offer the letter in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Maki Exhibit 1." 

Mr. Wood, It will be so marked and received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Maki Exhibit No. 1" and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. This is all I have. 

Mrs. Maki. I have a statement. 

Mr. Wood. Give it to the clerk and it will be considered by the 
•committee. 

The witness will be excused. 

(Witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Will you call your next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Paul Henley. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? 

Mr. Henley. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Henley. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL A. HENLEY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

BERNARD PROBE 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Henley. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 
Mr. Probe. My name is Bernard Probe and I have offices in the 
National Bank Building in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Henley, will you state your full name, please? 
Mr. Henley. Paul A. Henley. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Henley? 
Mr. Henley. I was born August 3, 1902, at Atkinson, Mich. 
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2861 

Mr. Henlet. At 675 West Willis, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a resident of the city of 
Detroit? 

Mr. Henley. Since 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline to the committee your 
educational training? 

Mr. Henley. I went to elementary school, finished high school, and 
went to college. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the nature of your employment? 

Mr. Henley. I am an auto worker. I am a steward for Local 3, 
UAW-CIO. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been an auto worker ? 

Mr. Henley. Well, the greater part of my working days since I 
started to work as a young man. I have spent my time in the auto 
sho]Ds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where have you worked in the industry during the 
past 10 years since you came here in 1942 ? 

Mr. Henley. I worked for Packard Motor Car Co. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Over what period of time ? 

Mr. Henley. 1942-44, in there— 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. After that ? 

Mr. Henley. I worked for Plymouth. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1945 until when? 

Mr. Henley. Sometime in 1946 ? 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Then where did you work ? 

Mr. Henley. Dodge Main. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1946 until what time ? 

Mr. Henley. Up until — I am still employed with the Chrysler 
Corp. Local 3 has jurisdiction over more than one plant. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask how many plants. 

Mr. Henley. Two. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are they, please? 

Mr. Henley. Dodge Main and the Nine Mile plant. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not there is a cell or group 
of the Communist Party organized within either of those branches 
or those plants ? 

Mr. Henley. I invoke my privileges under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you employed in 1947? 

Mr. Henley. I think part of 1947 I was at the Plymouth plant 
and was laid off there and applied for work at Dodge and secured it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eichard F. O'Hair has testified before this 
committee and told the committee that he was a member of the East 
Side Council of the Communist Party in 1947, that this council was 
made up of representatives of various cells or groups of the party 
in the automobile industry and other groups. In the course of his 
testimony he identified you as one of the members of the East Side 
Council of the Communist Party. Was he correct in that identifica- 
tion or not ? 

Mr. Henley. I refuse to answer, exercising my rights under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1947 were you a member of the East Side Council 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer for the same reason. 



2862 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at that time a member, that is, in 1947, of 
the Communist Party cell in any branch of the automobile industry ; 
whether at Plymouth or elsewhere ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time employed by the United 
States Government ? 

Mr. Henley. I invoke my privileges under the fifth amendment to 
decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you take the position that to have been an em- 
ployee of the United States Government might tend to incriminate 
you if you answer truthfully in regard to it ? 

Mr. Henley. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr, Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that the witness be 
directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. I will hold, sir, that as a matter of law, employment 
with the United States Government does not incriminate a man and 
under that ruling you are directed to answer the question whether 
you have or have not been so employed. 

Mr. Probe. I think it should be understood 

Mr. Wood. Advise your client, please, sir. 

Mr. Henley. Will you repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question is whether or not you were at any time 
employed by the United States Government ? 

Mr. Henley. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere ? 

Mr. Henley. Well, in the depression I worked on the WPA and I 
believe that is part of the governmental set-up. At a later period in 
1945 I passed the civil service examination and was employed by the 
Department of Internal Revenue here in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed by the Department 
of Internal Revenue ? 

Mr. Henley. For'a period of almost a year, I believe, 

Mr. Tavenner. In the first account that you gave us of your em- 
ployment you stated that you changed employment in 1945 to the 
Plymouth Co. You were not employed in any way by the Plymouth 
Co. or any other automobile company while you were working for the 
Internal Revenue Department, were you ? 

Mr. Henley. I gave approximate dates in the answers. 

Mr. Tavenner. You had no other employment, did you, while you 
were working for the Internal Revenue Department ? 

Mr. Henley. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You worked for about a year ? 

Mr. Henley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what type of work for the Internal Revenue De- 
partment were you engaged ? 

Mr. Henley. I was zone deputy collector. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the procurement of that position, while you were 
so employed, did you sign an affidavit with regard to your member- 
ship at any time in an organization wliich had for its purpose the 
overthrow of the Government of the United States ? 

Mr. Henley. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Henley. I refuse to answer for the same reason. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2863 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1945 when you procured your position with the 
United States Government, did you advise it that you had ever been 
a member of the Communist Party or that you had not been a member 
•of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Henley. I refuse to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Had you been a member of the Communist Party 
at the time you accepted employment and engaged in work for the 
United States Government? 

Mr. Henley. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment and 
dechne to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I believe at the beginning of your testimony 
you stated that you had been or may now be a steward in your union. 
Just what did you tell us about that? 

Mr. Henley. I told you that I was a steward in local 3. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a steward in local 3 ? 

Mr. Henley. Well, I have been a line steward for 4 years or so 
and now I am chief steward. I have been chief steward for about 
2 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the position of steward in local 3 an elective or 
appointive position? 

Mr. Henley. The position is an elective position and the election 
is going on today ; and because I have been summoned before this com- 
mittee, I do not think it is by accident, my chances of winning it are 
not too good. 

Mr. Tavenner. I can assure you, Mr. Henley, that the committee 
had no knowledge that you were engaged in an election of that type, 
nor in fact that you were a steward of your union. The first infor- 
mation that has been obtained on the subject is that which came from 
you. Let me ask you about it. As a steward, were you required 
to sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Henley. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you, under the regulations applicable 
to stewards, are stewards required to sign non-Communist affidavits? 

Mr. Henley. I think you just made a statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. Read the question (addressing official court 
reporter) . 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question under my privileges 
in the fifth amendment. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Did you sign a non-Communist affidavit as a stew- 
ard of your union ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the same ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period of time when you have served 
and acted as a steward of your union have you been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the same ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the constitution of the UAW prohibit a person 
who is an official in the union to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the same ground. 
Mr, Tavenner. Did you at any time advise officials of your union 
or the rank and file membership that you were not a member of the 
Communist Party ? 



2864 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds 

Mr. Tavenner. If there is a provision of the constitution of your 
union which prohibits members of the Communist Party to be officials, 
do you propose to make any statement to them with regard to yourself ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the same ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. Pardon 
me, I have one more question, if you please. 

I should ask another question. 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henlef. I decline to answer that question on the same ground.. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. I should like to explore for a moment, Mr. Chair- 
man, the question of this election which is taking place today and I 
join counsel in assuring the witness that this committee had no knowl- 
edge of it. However, as long as the witness has volunteered the in- 
formation with respect to the election, I will ask the question, in what 
manner would your appearance before this committee today affect 
the outcome of that election ? 

Mr. Henley. One of the men who testified here yesterday, I under- 
stand according to press reports, was ejected from the shop and threat- 
ened with lynching. He was John Cherveny, and such a thing could 
happen to me or anyone, although I don't know whether it woujd hap- 
pen. But this is due to the hysteria that is present and the witch 
hunting 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know the witness who appeared yesterday tO' 
whom you have reference ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question under my privileges 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. It would appear to me that the members of your 
union would not have any way of knowing, prior to your appearance- 
on the stand here today, whether you intended to cooperate with the 
committee or not cooperate with the committee. Wouldn't that nor- 
mally be the case ? 

Mr. Henley. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Is not the fact of the matter that you are very much 
concerned whether or not your fellow workers will work with you in 
the light of your refusal to testify before this committee and before 
the people of the United States, speaking through their Congress ? 

Mr. Henley. As a steward I handled the grievances of my men to 
the best of my ability and alwa3^s presented such grievances to the 
management. Before today I was doing all right. 

Mr. Jackson, Well, then, if your work has been of the standards 
which would meet with the approval of your fellow workers, perhaps 
that will be an overriding influence with respect to your lack of testi- 
mony here today. Perhaps you will find yourself welcome back at 
your employment. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused from further attendance before this committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2865 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. The witness is excused. 
(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Will you call your next witness, Mr. Counsel ? 
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. C. LeBron Simmons. 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LeBRON SIMMONS, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, CHESTER SMITH 

Mr. Smith. I make a motion that no pictures be taken while we 
testify. 

Mr. Wood. What is your name ? 

Mr. Smith. My name is Chester Smith. 

Mr. Wood. The witness has asked that no pictures be taken while 
the witness is testifying and I will have to ask you [addressing news 
photogi-aphers] to respect the wishes of the witness. 

Will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Simmons. I do. 

Mr. Wood, Do I understand from the statement just made that you 
are accompanied by counsel ? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel identify himself ? 

Mr. Smith. I am Chester Smith, attorney. 

Mr. Wood. Will you give your professional address ? 

Mr. Smith. 911 Gratiot Avenue, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Wood. Do I understand the statement made by your counsel 
reflects your wishes ? 

Mr. Simmons. That is right. I also wish to advise the chairman 
of this committee that I have a statement here in the form of a resolu- 
tion adopted by the Wolverine Bar Association, and which I would 
like to introduce as Simmons exhibit No. 1. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I see Simmons exhibit No. 1 ? 

Will you state to the committee, please, your full name ? 

Mr. Smith. Just one moment, Mr. Chairman, I would like to make 
a motion that there is not a quorum present of the committee and we 
raise that question. 

Mr. Jackson. I move a recess, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. We will take a recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon a short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please. 

Let the record show that there are present the following members 
of the subcommittee : Messrs. Jackson, Potter, and Wood, constituting 
a majority of the subcommittee. 

You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Simmons, what is your name, please? 

Mr. Simmons. My name is Charles LeBron Simmons. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Simmons. I was born at Chattanooga, Tenn., October 2, 1909. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a resident of the city of 
Detroit? 



2866 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AEEA 

Mr. Simmon. I have been a resident of Detroit since 1920. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Simmons. I am an attorney. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you practice law in Detroit? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes ; I do. -, . , • -c i 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you engaged m the practice ot law 

in Detroit ? 

Mr. Simmons. Since 1935. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational preparation for the 
practice of your profession, in brief ? • i • i 

Mr. Simmons. I went to elementary school here m Detroit, high 
school in Detroit, received my bachelor of arts degree at the University 
of Michigan, and my LL. B. degree from the University of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Simmons, I have before me Simmons exhibit 
No. 1. I notice the statement which I will quote to you : 

We see in this first attack by the committee against a Negro lawyer of 
stature 

Mr. Simmons. Will you tell me what page ? 

Mr. Tav-enner. Page 3, near the middle paragraph : 

We see in this first attack by the committee against a Negro lawyer of stature, 
an extension of the committee's recent attack upon the liberal lawyers of 
California and its persistent smearing of the only national interracial associa- 
tion of lawyers, the National Lawyers Guild. 

Are you acquainted with the so-called recent attack by this com- 
mittee upon the liberal lawyers of California ? Have you read the 
committee hearings on the matter ? 

Mr. Simmons. No, I have not read the committee's recent hearing 
in California. 

Mr. Tam^nner. Were you trying to reflect upon the purposes ot tlie 
committee adversely in stating what we are doing here is extending 
our recent attack upon the liberal lawyers of California, without hav- 
ing read anything about that attack or what was done in California? 

Mr. Simmons. This is a resolution that was adopted by the Wol- 
verine Bar Association. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of that bar association ? 

Mr. Simmons. I certainly am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in the preparation of that 

resolution ? 

Mr. Simmons. I participated in the discussion and m the adoption 
of this resolution and also Mr. Turner, who was here yesterday, par- 
ticipated in the discussion and adoption of this resolution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, the hearings conducted by the committee with 
regard to the so-called attack upon liberal lawyers in California ac- 
tually consisted of the testimony of five lawyers who had been duped 
into 'joining a Communist Party professional cell within the legal 
profession. Now, that was what the testimony was about. 

Do you think that the Committee on Un-American Activities should 
grant "immunity from investigation to lawyers who may be members 
of the Communist Party merely because they are lawyers? 

Mr. Simmons. Upon advice of my counsel, I decline to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what grounds ? 

Mr. Simmons. Upon the privileges of the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2867 

Mr. Tavenner, Will you explain how that question conld possibly 
involve prosecution of you if you were to answer it truthfully? 

Mr. Simmons. I think you as a lawyer understand that I do not have 
to tell you that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that tlie only answer you have to that ? 

Mr. Simmons. All the answer to the question you have just given me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Here is a resolution which you have presented here 
and which you would have filed as Simmons exhibit 1. Yet, you say 
to discuss the question and discuss the subject of your resolution here 
might tend to incriminate you when you yourself have presented it. 

Mr. Simmons. That is not the question you asked me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; it is. It goes right to the heart of your reso- 
lution. 

Mr. Simmons. It is not what I said. That is not the question you 
asked me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me get the question clear. I have asked you 
whether or not in your judgment persons who are members of the. 
Communist Party should be immune from investigation if they hap- 
l^en to be a member of the legal profession. 

Mr. Simmons. Upon advice of my counsel I refuse to answer the 
question, relying upon the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The five lawyers who testified in the California 
hearing that they had been duped into joining the Communist Party 
professional cell, that is, the cell within the lawyers' group, all resigned 
when they found out the true purposes of the Communist Party. 

Are you attempting to state through the resolution which you have 
adopted and presented here that this committee should not investigate 
situations of that kind and report to the Congress and make known 
to the people the Communist Party activities of individuals who hap- 
pen to l)e members of the legal profession ? 

Mr. Simmons. I would like for you to reformulate that question. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Will you just answer it ? 

Mr. Simmons. You used the word, "duped," which presupposes — 
I mean there is a supposition that you assume in your question. I 
would like to have the question rephrased. 

Mr. Ta\T3Nner. I was giving the benefit of every doubt to the indi- 
viduals that they were duped into joining the Communist Party. 
Whether they were duped or whether they did it with their eyes open, 
do you think this committee ought to refrain from investigating 
communism among lawyers? 

Mr. Simmons. If the purpose of this committee is to equate commu- 
uism with Un-Americanism — is that the function and purpose of this 
committee ? 

Mr. Wood. On that score, is there any question in your mind whether 
or not communism is un-American ? 

Mr. Simmons. There is some question in my mind what this com- 
mittee determines to be un- Americanism. 

Mr. AVooD. Is communism un- Americanism, in your estimate? 

Mr.. Simmons. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Taxtsnner. Now I refer to the last phrase in the sentence from 
your resolution, Simmons exhibit No. 1, where it is said, or where, 
rather, the action of the committee in California is referred to as, 
"its persistent smearing of the only national interracial association 

97097— 52— pt. 1 11 



2868 COMMUXISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

of lawyers, the National Lawyers" Guild." liave you read tlie testimony 
of the four or five lawyers \vitli regard to the activity of the Commu- 
nist Party members within the professional cell of the Commmiist 
Party in exerting- its control and influence into the Lawyers' Guild, the 
local unit of the Lawyers' Guild in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Simmons. No, I have not had an opportunity to read it. 

Mr. Tavenner, We would like to know here whether there are to 
your knowledge any members of the Communist Party among lawyers 
in Detroit who are endeavoring to exercise a control or influence 
originating in the Communist Party, on your local unit of the Law- 
yers' Guild? 

Mr. Simmons. I respectfully decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Lawyers' Guild ? 

Mr. Simmons. I certainly am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Simmons. I respectfully decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Ta^-enner. Do you hold any position in the Lawyers' Guild? 

Mr. Simmons. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever held a position in the Lawyers' 
Guild? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes; I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position ? 

INIr. Simmons. Member of the executive board. 

Mr. Tavenner. At that time were you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Simmons. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other members of the executive 
board of the Lawyers' Guild known to you to be members of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Simmons. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you and other members of the executive board 
who were members of the Communist Party confer in advance of meet- 
ings and endeavor to pass the Communist Party line on through the 
Lawyers' Guild ? 

Mr. Simmons. No. 1, that question makes an assumption which is 
incorrect. Will you rephrase the question so that I might answer it? 

Mr. Tavenner. To your knowledge, have members of the Commu- 
nist Party who were officials of the Lawyers' Guild, met prior to the 
guild meetings and discussed and agreed upon policies to be advanced 
in the Lawyers' Guild ? 

Mr. Simmons. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I show you a photograph, Mr. Simmons, of Mr. 
Richard F. O'Hair and ask you if you can identify the person whose 
photograph appears there as a person you have ever known? 

Mr. Simmons. I saw him testify here yesterday. 

Mr. Ta\t;nner. Is that the first time you have seen him ? 

Mr. Simmons. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tam^.nner. Why ? 

Mr. Simmons, Under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your reason for asserting the fifth amend- 
ment? What provision of the fifth amendment is the basis for your 
refusal to testify ? 

Mr. Simmons. Under the privileged section of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2869 

Mr. Simmons, I think the amendment speaks for itself. 

Mr. Tavenxer. What is it ? If you are refusing to testify because 
of some constitutional provision that applies to you, I would like to 
know exactly what it is and why you are relying upon it. 

Mr. Simmons. I think that particular section under the fifth amend- 
ment states that no person shall be compelled to testify against him- 
self. 

Mr. Tavenner. In a criminal case. 

Mr. Simmons. That is right, in a criminal case. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Then does your answer mean that to answer the 
question truthfully would result in apprehension on your part that you 
would be prosecuted criminally ? 

Mr. Simmons. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta^tnner. Mr. O'Hair has stated that he knew you when he 
testified before the committee and he identified you as a member of 
the Communist Party. Do you desire or are you willing to deny or 
affirm the truth of Mr. O'Hair's identification of you? 

Mr. Simmons. When did he testify I was a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Tavenner. On the first day of his testimony here, the only day 
of his testimony here. 

Mr. Simmons. Do you have a transcript of that testimony so I can 
see it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Simmons. Then I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you [addressing staff member] see if the tran- 
script is here ? Are you [addressing witness] in doubt whether or not 
he did identify you ? I may be incorrect in my statement. 

Mr. Simmons. Well, the transcript will speak for itself. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you hear him testify ? 

Mr. Simmons. Part of his testimony I heard. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear him identify you as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Simmons. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Have you at any time been a member of the Young 
Communist League ? 

Mr. Simmons. I respectfully decline to answer that question, rely- 
ing on the fifth amendment and its privileges. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a candidate for political 
office in the State of Michigan on the Communist Party ticket ? 

Mr. Simmons. I decline to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw my question for the 
present based upon the testimony of Mr. O'Hair, in the light of the 
Avitnesses questioning it, until I can ascertain whether or not he was 
the one who made the identification. In the meantime, I will ask 
you whether you are now a member of the Communist Party, Mr. 
Simmons. 

Mr. Simmons. I decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. HaA^e you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Simmons. I refuse to ansAver that for the same reason. 

Mr. Taat:nner. I have no further questions. 



2870 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Wood. Do j'^gu have any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Simmons. I would like to have the resolution made a part of 
the record. 

Mr. Wood. Give it to the clerk and it will be considered by the 
committee. 

Is there any reason why the witness should not be excused from any 
further attendance on the committee ? 

Mr. Ta^^nner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. The witness is excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Will you call your next witness, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. I will call Arthur McPhaul. 

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR McPHAUL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, GEORGE W. CROCKETT, JR. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. McPhaul, the committee has heretofore served upon 
you a subpena duces tecum, to produce certain records and documents. 
Are you prepared to respond to that subpena ? 

Mr. Crockett. May I suggest that the photographers be instructed 
to cease taking pictures, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. Does Mr. McPhaul object to the pictures? Is that your 
request ? 

Mr. McPhaul. That is right. 

Mr. Wood. I will ask the photographers then to desist from taking 
further pictures. Will you answer my question, Mr. McPhaul. Are 
you prepared to produce the documents and papers that have been 
called upon for you to produce under the subpena ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Mr. Wood, I refuse to answer this or any question 
which deals with the possession or custody of the books and records 
called for in the subpena. I claim my privilege under the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Wood. In view of that answer, Mr. Counsel, do you desire to 
proceed with the examination of this witness at this time ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask the witness if he has any other 
reason for refusing to produce the documents called for in the subpena. 

Mr. McPhaul. I think my answer covers it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to read the subpena into the record, at 
least part of it, and introduce it. The subpena calls for — 

the appearance before the Committee on Un-American Activities or a duly author- 
ized subcommittee thereof, from the House of Representatives of the United 
States, of wliicli the Honorable John S. Wood is chairman, together with all 
records, correspondence, memoranda, pertnining to the organization of, the 
affiliation with other organizations and all moneys received or expended by the 
Civil Rights Congress, Room 737, Federal Building, Detroit, Mich., Tuesday, 
February 26, 1952. 

I desire to offer tlie subpena in evidence and ask that it be marked 
"McPhaul Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be so marked and received. 

(The document referred to was marked "McPhaul Exhibit No. 1" 
and received in evidence.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2871 

Mr. Wood. In order to complete the record, Mr. McPliaul, is it in 
response to this subpena that has just been read that you now decline, 
for the reasons you have stated, to produce the documents and books 
and records therein called for ? 

Mr. ]\IcPhatjl. I have stated the reasons, for the record. 

Mr. Wood. Is it in response to this subpena that you refuse to 
answer ? 

Mr. McPhaul. That is my answer that I have just given. 

Mr. Wood. To this subpena ? 

Mr. McPhaut.. To that subpena; yes. 

Mr. Wood. Now, the question I will ask counsel is, it is now 4 : 30. 
Do you desire to proceed with the examination of this witness at this 
time ? If so, I will administer the oath to him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; let us proceed. 

Mr. Wood. Will you please stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the evidence that you give this subcommittee will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. McPhaul. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will you identify yourself for the record, Counsel? 

Mr. Crockett. My name is Ge'^orge W. Crockett, Jr., of the Michi- 
gan bar and the United States Supreme Court bar. My office is lo- 
cated in the Cadillac Tower Building in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. McPhaul. I have just handed each member of the comjuittee 
a copy of a prepared statement. I also included a petition, We Charge 
Genocide, a crime of the Government against Negro people. That 
was presented to the United Nations a few weeks ago. 

Mr. Wood. The committee has it in hand and it will be given due 
consideration. Just confine yourselves here to the answering of the 
questions asked you and we will get along. 

Mr. McPhaul. I just wanted to help by pointing out, if you will 
permit me to read certain things 

Mr. Wood. If we desire that sort of assistance, we will call on you 
for it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Arthur McPhaul. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born, Mr. McPhaul ? 

Mr. McPhaul. There is some question about where I was born. 
You being from Virginia, sir, you know, no doubt, in most of the 
Southern States 

Mr. Wood. Will you just answer the question? 

Mr. McPhaul. They just don't bother to make birtli certificates. 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; I didn't have one myself. 

Mr. Wood. Just give us your best understanding about it, if you do 
not know definitely. Can you approximate it? I did not have one, 
but I finally went back to the old family Bible and dug up one. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked a question of one witness on an occasion of 
where she was born and she started back at Jamestown. I really only 
want to know for the purpose of the record what your age is. 

Mr. McPhaul. I think I was born in Oklahoma. 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. McPhaul. 1909. 



2872 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Ta MANNER. Mr. McPhaul, you were served with a siibpena by 
Mr. Sam O'Connell, deputy United States marshal, to appear before 
the committee on the 26th day of February 1952 and produce the rec- 
ords, correspondence, and memoranda pertaining to the organization 
of and affiliation with other organizations and all moneys received 
and expended by the Civil Rights Congress, were you not ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Yes : I was served with a subpena. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Do I understand that you refuse to produce any 
of the records directed to be produced under the subpena ? 

Mr. JSIcPhaul. I have answered that, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Wood. You did not answer it under oath, and I think perhaps 
you will agree with me that it would be proper to do so under oath 
if you are asked. 

Mr. McPhaul. I will repeat the answer that I gave at the beginning. 

Mr. Wood. Will that answer stand as your answer to the question 
just asked you? 

Mr, McPhaul. Will you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question is as to whether or not you are refus- 
ing to produce the records directed to be produced under the subpena ? 

Mr. McPhaul. My answer to that is, I refuse to answer this or any 
questions which deal with the possession or custody of the books and 
records called for in this subpena, I claim my privileges under the 
fifth amendment of the United States Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question to you was not answered by that state- 
ment, in my judgment. My question was whether or not you are re- 
fusing to produce the records which you were directed to produce 
under this subpena ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I have answered it in this statement. 

Mr. Tavenner, No, sir. You have stated that you refuse to answer 
any questions pertaining to them. I have not asked you a question 
that pertains to them. I have asked you to produce the records. 
Now, will you produce them? 

Mr. McPhaul. I will not. "Wliile he is conferencing, I wonder if 
the Kluxers of Georgia have ever been asked to produce their records, 

Mr, Wood, If it was pertinent to this inquiry, I could answer that 
question for you, sir, that they have been requested to do so and have 
done so, 

]Mr, McPhaul, I would like to see the records, Mr. Chairman, of 
some of the proceedings from such an inquiry into the Ku Klux Klan 
of Ceorgia, especially. 

Mr. Wood. You are perfectly at liberty, sir, to come to the commit- 
tee offices and view them. I will say for the benefit of the witness, 
that in view of certain published statements that have been made in 
this city, which are intended, I believe, to reflect upon me, that I 
happen to be the first American official Avho ever prosecuted a Ku 
Klux Klansman in Georgia and convicted him and sentenced him to 
prison for outrages committed on people of both colors in my State. 

JNIr. ]\IcPhaul. You did convict some for lynching. 

]\Ir. Wood, I convicted some for outrages and for assault with intent 
to uRirder, in the courts of my State. Perhaps that might alleviate 
some of the feeling of some of the people because of the fact I come 
from the deep South. 

Mr. McPhaul. Have you said anything against Governor Tal- 
madge's outrageous statement against Negroes appearing on tele- 
vision ? 



COMMUXISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2873 

Mr. Wood. I liave said many things against Governor Talmadge. 

Mr. McPhaul. I mean, for the record. 

Mr. Wood. I have not been called upon to say anything for the 
record. The Governor of Georgia is not an issue in this investigation. 

Mr. McPhaul. Lynching is always an issue as far as the Negro is 
concerned and I would like the record to show that I am a Negro. 

Mr. Wood. If you would find one insta-nce where Mr. Talmadge is 
identified with a" lynching party or any other party designed to de- 
prive any man of his civil rights guaranteed under the Constitution, 
I am sure that the proper officials of the Government of the United 
States and the State of Georgia will take due cognizance of that. 

Mr. McPhaul. I just came back from Florida and they don't do it 
in Florida. 

Mr. Wood. Let us not argue the question. I simply wanted to make 
the observation that I did make because of statements that have been 
made in the past. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you presently live in the city of Detroit? 

Mr. McPhaul. Yes.^ 

Mr. TA^'ENXEE. How long have you lived here? 

Mr. McPhaul. Approximately 30 years. 

Mr. Tavexner. Wliat is your profession or employment ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I am a worker. 

Mr. Tavexner. What type of work do you engage in ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I am invoking my right under the fifth amendment 
and I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenxer. What has been your employment over a period of 
the past 10 years ? 

Mr. McPhaul. What specific part of the 10 years do you want? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Be^in at the l)eginning and end with the end. How 
long did you say j'ou lived here ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Approximately 30 years. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I do not want to go back 30 years. Will you go back 
10 years to 1942 ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking the privileges granted me under the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution, I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavexner. How were you employed in 1942? 

INIr. McPhaul. Invoking the privileges under the Constitution, I 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenxer. How were you employed between 1945 and 1950 ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking the privileges under the Constitution, 
I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexxer. In other words, you refuse to tell the committee 
anything regarding your background of employment? 

Mr. McPhaul. You can draw any conclusion you want. I have 
answered the question, 

Mr. Tav-exner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
EichardF. O'Hair? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my privileges under the fifth amend- 
ment, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you present during the course of his testi- 
mony on Monday of this week ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Will you repeat the question? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you present in this courtroom when Mr. 
O'Hair testified on Monday of this week ? 

Mr. McPhaul. No ; I was not. 



2874 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. O'Hair identified you as a member of the 
Communist Party. Do you wish to deny or affirm tliat or explain it? 

Mr. McPhaul. Will you restate the question? 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you (addressing official court reporter) read 
the question ? 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my rights under the Constitution, and 
the fifth amendment, I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. O'Hair testified in this respect with regard to 
you. "Arthur McPhaul was a member of the Midtown Club of the 
Communist Party." Were you at any time a member of the Midtown 
Club of the Communist Party? 

Mr. ]\IcPhaul. Invoking my rights under the fifth amendment, 
I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of the Ford unit 
or any unit within Ford, that is any unit of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McPpiaul, Invoking my rights under the fiftli amendment, 
I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in this room during the testimony on 
Tuesday, of Walter Scott Dunn ? 

Mr. McPhaul. You asked if I was in this courtroom on Tuesday? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. Read the question (addressing official court re- 
porter). 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. McPhaul. My subpena requn-ed that 

Mr. Wood. Never mind what your subpena required. You were 
asked whether you were here at the time he testified. That is a simple 
question. Can't you answer it? 

Mr. McPhaul. I was heie in answer to the subpena. 

Mr. Ta\T2nner. Were you in this room while he testified ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I was in tlie room part of the time that he testified. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear him testify with regard to. you in any 
particular ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Under the privilege granted me under the fifth 
amendment, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me advise you that Mr. Dunn testified and in 
his testimony he identified you as a person known to him to be a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. Was he truthful in that statement or 
not? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my right under the fifth mendment, I 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Are you a member of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my rights under the Constitution and the 
fifth amendment, I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is the committee's information that Mr. William 
Patterson is the head of the Civil Rights Congress, or at least is a 
high official of the Civil Rights Congi-ess. Have you discussed the 
matter of your testimony with Mr. William Patterson? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my right under the fifth amendment, I 
refuse to answer the question. You asked me something — did you 
withdraw the question about Mr. Patterson being an official of the 
Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. I asked you the question that according to 
our information, he was a leader or an official of the Civil Rights 
Congress. Do you know Mr. Patterson ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2875 

Mr. McPiiAuii. Invokin<T my right under the fifth amendment, I 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he is an official ? 

Mr. McPhaul. According to the book, Genocide, he is editor of that 
petition. That also says it was published by the Civil Eights Con- 
gress. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Now, will you answer the question, please? 

Mr. McPhaul. I have given the members of the committee a copy. 
I will give you one if you like. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ? All I am asking is a 
very simple thing. 

Mr. McPhaul. What was the question? 

Mr. Wood. Do you know him ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I thought I answered. I thought that was an 
answer to that question. 

Mr. Wood. The question is, Do you know Mr. Patterson, the man 
whose name was given to you? 

Mr. McPhaul. I answered that. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. William Patterson. 

Mr. McPhaul. I answered that question, the record will show it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he is an official of the Civil 
Eights Congress? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my privileges under the fifth amendment, 
I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he has been here in Detroit 
advising with witnesses who have been subpenaed to appear here? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my rights under the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution, I refuse to answer the question. I take it for granted 
your investigators will know. If not, you are getting good coopera- 
tion from the FBI and they know. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position does Mr. William Patterson hold in 
the Civil Rights Congress, if you know ? 

]\Ir. JNIcPhaltl. Invoking my rights under the privileges of the 
fifth amendment, I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Mr. Patterson was at 
one time one of the top-ranking officials of the International Labor 
Defense ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Invoking my rights under the fifth amendment of 
the Constitution, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do you know whether at one time he was a direc- 
tor of the Abraham Lincoln School in Chicago ? 

Mr. McPhaul. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Are vou acquainted with Mary Bray ? Miss Mary 
Bray? 

Mr. McPhaul. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Jack Easkin at any 
time? 

Mr, McPhaul. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr, Tavenner. To your knowledge, did he ever hold the position 
with tlie Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. McPhaul, I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McPhaul. I refuse to answer that question invoking my rights 
under the fifth amendment to the constitution. It is a trick question. 
If a person said yes, and then you would convict him ; and if he said 



2876 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

no, you put a stool pigeon on the stand and say he is, so you are 
damned if you do and damned if you are not. 

Mr. TaveNjStek. Let us see about that. It is a very simple and plain 
question as to whether or not you are a member of the Communist 
Party ? It can be answered, as you say, either yes or no, but I fail to 
see where there is any trick in it. It is just as perfectly plain and 
normal a question as anyone could be asked. 

Mr. McPhaul. I know the record of this committee. 

Mr. Jackson. And we know the record of the Communist Party. 

Mr. McPhaul. I know your record, too, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope you make the most of it. 

Mr. Wood. The question is. Will you answ^er the question ? 

Mr. ]\IcPhaul. I answered it. 

Mr. Tavenner. From your attitude and disposition of these mat- 
ters, I assume that you are not willing to answer any questions that 
this committee might ask you regarding the activities of the Com- 
munist Party in this locality, in the city of Detroit ? 

Mr. McPhaul. Under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, I 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Does the committee have any questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Potter. No questio]is. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. McPhaul. There are no Negroes living in Cheboygan, Mr. 
Potter. 

Mr. PoTTi'^R. They are invited any time they want to come up. 

Mr. McPhaul. They cannot eat there. 

Mr. Potter. They certainly can. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness 'should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. It is 10 minutes to 5, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is one statement I want to make to clear 
up one matter. Will you bear with me just a minute, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

ISIr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, there is a matter of identification 
that I want to clear up. The witness, Wayne Salisbury, mentioned a 
Jack AYhite. A Jack White has been mentioned by several other 
witnesses as a member of the Communist Party. It has come to my 
attention there are several Jack Whites in the community. I want 
to clear this matter up as well as I can. The address of the Jack White 
to which witnesses referred, according to the investigation by the 
committee's staff, in October 7, 1951, was 1449 Collingwood Avenue, in 
the city of Detroit. So it is quite apparent that the Jack White re- 
ferred to there is an entirely different person from the Jack White who 
is connected with some radio stations here. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock to- 
morrow morning. 

(l^'liereupon at 4 :65 p. m. the committee was recessed to reconvene 
at 10 a. m., Thursday, February 28, 1952.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA— PART 1 



THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1952 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-Ameeican Actr^ities, 



Detroit^ Mich. 



PUBLIC hearing 



A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to call at 10 a. m. in room 740, Federal Building, Detroit, 
Mich., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood, Don- 
ald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; John W. Carrington, clerk; and Donald 
T. Appell and Jackson Jones, investigators. 

Mr. Wood. Let's have order, please. Let the record show that the 
following members of the subcommittee are present : Messrs. Jackson, 
Potter, and Wood, constituting a majority of the subcommittee. 

I would like to make this little announcement at this time. The 
subcommittee has just had an executive conference, in which it has 
been determined that it will be impossible during the remainder of 
this week for this subcommittee to finish the work that is already 
outlined by tlie committee staff. It is the proposal of this committee 
to recommend to the full committee, upon our return to Washington, 
that a subcommittee be sent back to the Detroit area at some later 
date, perhaps, during the week of the 10th of March, for the purpose 
of finishing the hearing of the witnesses already under subpena. 

Are you ready, now, to proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

STATEMENT OF GEORGE W. CROCKETT AS COUNSEL EOR STANLEY 

NOWAK 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I call Mr. Stanley Nowak. 

Mr. Crockett. Mr. Chairman. I am appearing on behalf of Mr. 
Stanley Nowak. M}' name is George W. Crockett. I received a 
telephone call from Mrs. Nowak this morning, to the effect that Mr. 
Nowak is ill with a fever and is unable to appear here this morning. 
I suggested to her that she get a statement from his physician to that 
effect and have it here by 2 o'clock this afternoon, which, I am sure, 
the committee will accept until such time as he is able to appear here. 
He was supposed to appear on yesterday, and, he was here on yes- 
terday. 

Mr. Wood. I am sure we will accept that. It isn't the purpose of 
this committee to undertake to require the presence of any person 

2877 



2878 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

physically unable to appear. AVe will set a reasonable time for the 
extension of such subpena. 

Mr. Crockett. I Avill get it to you as soon as I receive it, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Coleman Young. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Young? 

Mr. Young. That's right. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? You do 
solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Young. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF COLEMAN A. YOUNG, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, GEOEGE W. CROCKETT, JR. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Young? 

Mr. Young. May I get my brief case ? 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Young. I am. 

Mr. Crockett. I represent Mr. Young. My name is George W. 
Crockett, Jr. I am a member of the bar of Michigan and the United 
States Supreme Court. My office is located in the Cadillac Tower in 
the city of Detroit. I am appearing as counsel for the witness, Mr. 
Coleman Young. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, ]\Ir. Young ? 

Mr. Young. Coleman A. Young. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Young. May 24, 1918, Tuscaloosa, Ala. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly, what 
your education training has been ? 

Mr. Young. I am a high school graduate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Detroit ? 

Mr. Young. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. Young. Approximately 30 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, a general back- 
ground of your employment record, say, over the past 10 years? 

Mr. Young. Well, I came out of high school and I went to work at 
Ford Motor Co. — that was in 1937 — for about a year and a half. I 
subsequently worked in a dry-cleaning plant ; I worked for the United 
States Veterans' Administration, at the hospital here; I worked for 
the post office before I went into the Army. I was discharged from 
the post office for attempting to organize a union. I went into the 
Army about a month later. After coming out, I worked for the post 
office about 2 months. I quit the post office because they refused to 
give me a leave of absence so that I might work for the union organiza- 
tion, the International Union of United Public Workers; director 
of program for the Wayne County CIO ; State director for the Pro- 
gressive Party of Michigan; presently, national executive secretary 
of the National Negro Labor Council. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the last of the employment you had? 

Mr. Young. I am national executive secretary of the National Ne- 
gro Labor Council. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Is that full-time employment? 



COMMUjSTISM in the DETROIT AREA 2879 

Mr. Young. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the position you mentioned you had with 
the organization of the CIO ? 

Mr. Young. Director of organization for the Wayne County CIO 
Council. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Over what period of time? 

Mr. Young. During tlie period of 1947 and 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Young, I want to state to you in advance of 
questioning you, that the investigators of the committee have not 
produced or presented any evidence of Communist Party membership 
on your part. The purpose in asking you to come here is to inquire 
into some of the— into the activities of some of the organizations 
with which you have been connected, to see to what extent, if any, the 
committee should be interested in them from the standpoint of those 
manifesting communism. Now, you mentioned  

Mr. Young. Mr. Tavenner, I "would like to say this : First of all, 
I have understood, from official pronouncements of this committee, and 
yourself, that this is a forum; you call it the highest forum in the 
country, being that of the Congress of the United States. I have, 
been subpenaed here. I didn't come by my own prerogative. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I understand. 

Mr. Young. I can onlv state that in being interviewed and being 
asked questions, that I hope that I will be allowed to react fully 
to those questions, and not be expected to react only in such a man- 
ner that this committee may desire me. In other words, I might have 
answers you might not like. You called me here to testify ; I am pre- 
pared to testify, but, I would like to know from you if I shall be 
allowed to respond to your questions fully and in my own way. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no objection to your answers, if they are 
responsive to the questions. 

Mr. Young. I will respond. 

Mr. Tavenner. But I desire to ask you the question which I have 
asked other witnesses: Are you now a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer that question, relying upon my rights 
under the fifth amendment, and, in light of the fact that an answer 
to such a question, before such a committee, would be, in my opinion, 
a violation of my rights under the first amendment, which provides 
for freedom of speech, sanctity and privacy of political beliefs and 
associates, and, further, since I have no purpose of being here as a 
stool pigeon, I am not prepared to give any information on any of 
my associates or political thoughts. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Young. For the same reason, I refuse to answer that ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. You told us you were the executive secretary of the 
National Negro Congress 

Mr. Young. That word is "Negro," not "Niggra." 

Mr. Tavenner. I said, "Negro." I think you are mistaken. 

Mr. Young. I hope I am. Speak more clearly. 

JNIr. Wood. I will appreciate it if you will not argue with counsel. 

Mr. Young. It isn't my purpose to argue. As a Negro, I resent the 
slurring of the name of my race. 

Mr. Wood. You are here for the purpose of answering questions. 

Mr. Young. In some sections of the country they slur 



2880 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I cam sorry. I did not mean to slur it. I was mis- 
taken in referring to your liaving said you were the executive secre- 
tary of the National Negro Congress ; but, I will ask you a question, if 
you were, at any time in the past, executive secretary of the National 
Negro Congress? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your position is that to answer any question with 
relation to your connection with the National Negro Congress might 
tend to incriminate you, is that your position? 

ISIr. Young. The National Negro Congress, as I understand it, has 
been labeled by not only the Justice Department, but by this com- 
mittee, which also labeled the National Association for the Advance- 
ment of Colored People as subversive, and I don't intend to discuss any 
organization that, properly or improperly, has been designated by 
you or any other committee as subversive. 

Mr. TA^^^.NNER. Were you, at any time, a field organizer for the 
National Negro Congress? 

Mr. Young. The same answer will apply in regard to the National 
Negro Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to state — you answered a moment 
ago that this committee had labeled the NAACP as a subversive. 

Mr. Young. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. When was such action taken? 

Mr. Young. I refer you to the Negro Yearbook of 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you refer to au}^ record of the committee which 
has so designated the NAACP? 

Mr. Young. I am sure this committee is in possession of its own 
records. I would suggest a search of those records. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. It is on record? You are sure I have evidence of 
such designation with regard to the NAACP, a national organization? 

Mr. Young. I refer you to 

Mr. Tavenner. There was a local in Hawaii which had some spe- 
cial problem, but, as far as the national organization is concerned, 
this committee has not so cited it, nor has the Attorney General's office, 
in my opinion. 

Mr. Young. Was Mr. Rankin ever a member of this committee, 
Congressm.an Rankin ; I refer to Congressman Rankin. He is the 
person who designated the NAACP, the National Association for the 
Advancement of Colored People, as being a subversive organization, 
and thus preventing them from any early considerations in projects 
for Negro rights. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Young, Congressman Rankin is not a member of 
this committee. 

Mr. Young. Mr. Potter, Congressman Rankin was one of the fore- 
most members of this committee. It is the same committee, following 
the same purpose. 

Mr. Potter. We are not here to discuss Congressman Rankin. We 
are here to find out the extent of the Communist activities in this area. 
You are in a position to help and aid, if you will, but the attitude you 
are taking is uncooperative to such an investigation. 

Mr. Young. I am not here to fight in any un-American activities, 
because I consider the denial of the right to vote to large numbers of 
people all over the South un-xVmerican, and I consider 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2881 

Mr. Potter. I will join you in the same thing, but, at the same time, 
a member of the Communist Party is a person who carries on un- 
American activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider the activities of the Communist 
Party un-American ? 

Mr. Young. I consider the activities of this committee, as it cites 
people for allegedly being a Communist, as un-American activities. 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. Your answer is not responsive to the 
question. He asked if you regarded the activities of the Communist 
Party as un-American ? 

Mr. Young. I am not in a position to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you ac<iuainted with any of the activities of 
the Communist Party in the city of Detroit ? 

Mr. Young. I have made it clear, or sought to make it clear 

Mr. Tavenner. That you might aid the committee, as you sug- 
gested awhile ago you would like to do. 

Mr. Young. I sought to make it clear that I consider any questions 
that deal with my political beliefs, or with the beliefs of people I may 
or may not have been associated with, a violation of my rights under 
the fifth amendment, and an invasion of my privacy guaranteed me 
under the first amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you no question regarding your individual 
views. I asked if you knew of any activities of the Communist Party 
in this community, which might be of some assistance to this commit- 
tee in its investigation of un-American activities. I understood from 
your statement you would like to help us. 

Mr. Young. You have me mixed up with a stool pigeon. 

Mr. Potter. I have never heard of anybody stooling in the Boy 
Scouts. 

Mr. Young. I was a member of the organization. 

Mr. Potter. I don't think they are proud of it today. 

Mr. Young. I will let the Scouts decide that. 

Mr. Potter. I think they would. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to take you at your word, that you 
would like to help this committee in its investigation of anything that 
may be of an un-American character, and one of the things the com- 
mittee, as I mentioned to you a moment ago, desires you to do is to 
relate some of the activities of the persons of some organizations with 
which you have been connected. You are certainly in a position to 
give that information if you were actually a member of the organiza- 
tion. Now, we are anxious to know about the origin of the organiza- 
tion, of which you are now, I believe, the^executive secretary, the Na- 
tional Negro Labor Council. 
* Mr. Young. I will tell you about my organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to try to go back to the beginning. I have 
asked you about the National Negro Congress, which you have de- 
clined to advise us about, and, I want to ask you, further, whether or 
not you and a group of others were active in the organization of a city- 
wide veteran council in January 1946, and if there was any connection 
of any character between it and the National Negro Congress ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer that question, taking advantage of 
the privilege granted me under the fiftli amendment. However, if 
you want to know about the National Negro Labor Council, I will 
tell you about it. 



2882 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. We will come to that. 

Mr. Young. You are going to tell me about it, is that it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, no, no. Would it not be correct to say that the 
Veteran's Council, which was organized in January 1946, was con- 
verted into and became the Detroit chapter of the National Negro 
Congress ? 

Mr. Young. I have already indicated to you that I have no infor- 
mation for this committee concerning the National Negi^o Congress. 
1 am willing to discuss my organization, the National Negro Labor 
Council. 

INIr. Wood. Just answer the questions that are asked. Let's get along 
with the hearing. He is asking you if it is correct 

Mr. Young. Congressman, you invited me here to testify, and, I 
intend to testify. 

Mr. Wood. I want you to ansM^er the questions as they are asked. 

Mr. Young. I will answer them in my own way. 

Mr. Wood. There isn't but one way to answer them, and that's the 
right way. 

Mr. Young. And, that's the way you want me to answer it. 

Mr. Wood. Tliat is the only truthful way to answer it. 

Mr. Young. I am not allowing the committee to put words in my 
mouth. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee might put some words in your mouth 
that are a great deal better than the ones you are uttering. 

Mr. Young. Sir, you have been making lectures for a long time 

Mr. Wood. I am not going to allow you to argue. If you want to 
answer the question, answer ; if you don't want to answer it, decline. 
This is not a vaudeville here ; this is serious business. 

Mr. Young. I regret not being given the opportunity to answer. 
You said this was going to be a forum. "Wlien the Congressman ad- 
dresses me, I will expect the courtesy to answer the Congressman. 

Mr. Jackson. As far as I am concerned, you will have opportunity 
to answer me at any time I say anything to you. 

Mr. Young. You just got thi'ough addressing me. 

Mr. Jackson. You will have the opportunity to answer any ques- 
tions 1 ask. 

Mr. Young. Do you have anything to say to me ? 

Mr. Jackson. I will have something to say to you in due course. 

Mr. Young. I will have something to say to you, too. 

Mr. Jackson. That is your privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you affiliated, at any time, with an organiza- 
tion known as the United Negro and Allied Veterans of America ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to ansAver that question, taking adA^antage of 
the fifth amendment.  

Mr. Tavenner. You told us, in giving us the background of your 
record of employment, that you are now the executive secretary of the 
National Negro Labor Council ? 

Mr. Young. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was it formed ? 

Mr. Young. It was formed in Cincinnati, Ohio, formally organized 
on October 27 and 28 of the past year. That would be 1951. 

Mr. Tavenner. Nineteen fifty-one? 

Mr. Young. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is its president ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2883 

Mr. Young. President William K. Hood, whom you have also sub- 
penaed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any difference in the objectives of the Na- 
tional Negro Labor Council and the National Negro Congress? 

Mr. Young. I am prepared to discuss the objectives and the pro- 
gram of the National Negro Labor Council. I am not prepared to 
discuss the objectives of the National Negro Congress. If you will 
separate the question, I will answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why aren't you prepared? Is it you are not 
familiar with the objectives of the National Negro Congress ? Wliat 
do you mean, by saying you are not prepared ? 

Mr. Young. As far as the National Negro Congress is concerned, 
I have stated my objection under the fifth amendment, as well as the 
first amendment. I have also indicated to you it isn't my intention 
to discuss here any organization labeled by your committee or any 
other committee as subversive. I have here a copy of the preamble 
of the National NegTo Labor Council, which will explain its ob- 
jectives, if you want to hear it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to have it filed. 

Mr. Young. You don't want to hear it, you want to file it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to tell me wherein it differs 
from the National Negro Congress. 

Mr. Young. Are jou a congressman? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I am not. I had in mind, from the investiga- 
tion we made, you would know something about the National Negro 
Congress; in fact, our information has been that you were the field 
organizer of it, and, if you were, you would be bound to have some 
knowledge of its objectives, if you worked as an organizer for it. 

Mr. Young. If your information comes from stoolpigeons and 
paid informers, you might have any kind of information. 

Mr. Wood. Well, let's get the information from you. Were you or 
were you not an organizer for it? 

Mr. Young. I have stated, and I restate, I refuse to answer any 
questions concerning the National Negro Congress, relying upon my 
rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wherein does the objectives, purposes of your 
organization, which yoti are now executive secretary differ from that 
organization? 

Mr. Young. The purposes of the organization which I am now 
connected with, and that is the National Negro Labor Council, are as 
follows : 

We, the members of the Negro Labor Council, believe that the struggle of the 
Negro people for first-class citizenship based on economic, political, and social 
equality is in vain unless we as Negro workers, along with our white allies, are 
united to protect our people (Negro) against those forces who continue to deny 
us full citizenship. 

Realizing that the old forms of organizations which were dedicated to the 
fight for first-class citizenship for Negro people have been unable to bring 
full economic opportunity for the Negro worker in the factory, the mine, the 
mill, the office, in government; to stop wanton police killings of Negros through- 
out the land; to stop mol) violence against us; to bring tlie franchise to our 
brothers and sisters in the Sontli, and gain our full say in the political life of 
our country with proper representation in government on all levels; to buy and 
rent homes everywhei-e unrestricted ; to use the public facilities, restaurants, 
hotels, and the recreation facilities in town and country, we form the National 

97097— 52— pt. 1 — —12 



2884 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Negro Labor Council (NNLC), an organization which unites all Negro workers 
with other suffering minorities and our allies among the white workers, and 
base ourselves on rank and file control regardless of age, sex, creed, political 
beliefs, or union affiliation, and pursue at all times a policy of militant struggle 
to improve our conditions. 

We pledge ourselves to labor unitedly for the principles herein set forth, to 
perpetuate our councils and work concertedly with other organizations that seek 
improvement for Negro and other oppressed minorities. 

We further pledge ourselves to work unitedly with the trade-unions to bring 
about greater cooperation between all sections of the Negro people and the trade- 
union movement ; to bring the principles of trade-unionism to the Negro workers 
everywhere ; to aid the trade-unions in the great unfinished task of organizing 
the South on the basis of fraternity, equality, and unity ; to further unity be- 
tween black and white workers everywhere. 

Mr. Wood. Now, having read and gotten it into the records, will you 
answer the question asked you, which is, in what respect does it differ 
from the National Negro Congress ? 

Mr. Young. I take it this committee is in possession of information 
on the program of the National Negro Congress. You are now, as 
of my having read our preamble, in possession of information on the 
program of the National Negro Labor Council 

Mr. Wood. You are making a very fine assumption. 

Mr. Young. I am sure you are competent to judge the question for 
yourself. 

Mr. Wood. I am asking you for the difference. 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer the question on the basis of the fifth 
amendement. 

Mr. Wood. Do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mr. Young. That would apply to any question, that question and 
any other question that has within it reference to the National Negro 
Congress. 

Mr. Wood. I want an answer. Do you refuse to answer the question 
asked you ? 

Mr. Young. Will you repeat what specific question you are talking 
about ? 

Mr. Wood. The question asked you. 

What is the question ? Eead the question to him. 

(The question was read by official court reporter.) 

Mr. Young. As this committee is in possession of a copy 

Mr. Wood. Let's not assume things. 

Mr. Young. I am trying to answer the question, if you will let 
me. 

Mr. Wood. No, you are not. You are trying to evade my question. 

Mr. Young. You will have to wait for my answer in order to de- 
termine whether I am evading or not. I haven't finished. 

Mr. Wood. You are assuming what you don't know. 

Mr. Young. You are assuming what I am going to say. 

Mr. Wood. I want you to answer in what way the preamble you 
read, of the National Negro Labor Council, differs, if any, in respect to 
the National Negro Congress. 

Mr. Young. I would inform you, also, the word is Negro. 

Mr. Wood. I am sorry. If I made a different pronouncement of it, 
it is due to my inability to use the language any better than I do. I 
am trying to use it properly. 

Mr. Young. It may be due to your southern background. 



coMMinsriSM in the Detroit area 2885 

Mr. Wood. I am not ashamed of my southern background. For 
your information, out of the 112 Negro votes cast in the last election in 
the little village from which I come, I got 112 of them. That ought 
to be a complete answer of that. Now, will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Young. You are through with it now, is that it? 

Mr. Wood. I don't know. 

Mr. Young. I happen to know, in Georgia Negro people are pre- 
vented from voting by virtue of terror, intimidation, and lynchings. 
It is my contention you would not be in Congress today if it were not 
for the legal restrictions on voting on the part of my people. 

Mr. Wood. I happen to know that is a deliberate false statement 
on your part. 

Mr. Young. My statement is on the record. 

Mr. Wood. Mine is, too. 

Mr. Young. I will stand by my statement. 

Mr. Jackson. I suggest that the witness answer the question di- 
rected by counsel. 

Mr. Wood. Now, will you answer the question asked ? 

Mr. Young. If you will let me finish my answer, I will. 

Mr. Wood. If you will answer the question, I will get a soap box 
and let you make a speech; if you will just answer the question. 

Mr. Young. I will join you on a soap box. You have been doing 
pretty good in answering other questions. If you have a constitution 
of the National Negro Congress, I will be glad to read your copy and 
point out to you what difference exist between the two organizations. 

Mr. Wood. Don't you know, without reading it ? 

Mr. Young. I have already answered it. 

Mr. Wood. Please answer. 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer the question in connection with the 
National Negro Congress, taking advantage of my rights under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr, Wood. Are you refusing to answer whether you know what it 
contains ? 

Mr. Young. I consider I have answered the question. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. When did the National Negro Congress cease to 
function, if it did ? 

Mr. Young. At the risk of being monotonous, I refuse to answer any 
question referring to or having to do with the National Negro Con- 
gress, by reason of the rights under the fifth amendment. However, 
I am prepared to discuss the National Negro Labor Council. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you, if the National Negro Labor Coun- 
cil is merely a reactivation of the National Negro Congress? 

Mr. Young. I will answer you this: The National Negro Labor 
Council is an organization consisting of Negro trade-unions, in the 
main, and of white trade-unions, also, who agree with our program, 
which was formed, as I told you, in Cincinnati, October 27 and 28, of 
1951. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Now, will you answer the question, please? 

Mr. Young. The answer to the question is that the National Negro 
Labor Council is an offshoot of no organization. It is a completely 
new organization, formed with a new progi\im, a program of bringing 
together, in the struggle for Negro rights, the organized strength of 



2886 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

the Ne<Tro peoi)le and tlie trade-union movement; an organization 
which believes that in order to gain tliese rights, it is necessary to 
maintain constant struggle; an organization primarily interested in, 
among other things, the fight for the ballot for the people in the South, 
and that includes the State of Georgia and the State of Virginia, 
where, I understand, you are from, counsel. 

Mr. Wood. Please give us credit for knowing we are from the south- 
ern section of the country. I think this committee is familiar with it. 

Mr. Young. I am, too, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. In your answer, you referred to it not being an off- 
shoot of any other organization. My question is whether or not it is, 
in fact, a reactivation of the National Negro Congi'ess ? 

Mr. Young. I have indicated to you that, relying on my rights under 
the fifth amendment, I refuse to answer any question concerning the 
National Negro Congress. 

Mr. Tavennee. Will you advise the committee to what extent, within 
your knowledge, the Civil Eights Congress in this area has assisted 
the Communist Party in attainment of any of its objectives? 

Mr. Young. I have indicated to you, to this committee, I am no stool- 
pigeon. I refuse to answer any question concerning organizations 
labeled as subversive, relying on my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, when you stated earlier in your testimony 
that you would like to help this conimittee to examine into un-Ameri- 
can activities, you meant to put limitations upon that? 

]Mr. YouNG.*^ I would say that the coimnittee has put limitations 
upon an investigation into un-American activities. This committee 
has failed to investigate the Moore slaying in 

Mr. Wood. Is that your reason for refusing to answer the questions 
asked you? 

]\Ir. Young. I am ready to point out to this committee, taking for 
granted j^ou may not know about some of the atrocities that have taken 
place against the Negro people in this countr}' 

Mr. Wood. I asked, if that is the reason you refuse to answer the 
questions. 

Mr. Young. I merely submit that you investigate these un-American 
activities. 

Mr. AVood. At the moment, we are investigating un-American activ- 
ities we are asking you about and have been asking you about. Do you 
plan to answer them ? 

Mr. Young. I consider it an un-American activity to pry into a per- 
son's private thoughts, to pry into a person's associates; I consider 
that an un-American activity. 

Mr. Wood. Is that your reason for not asnwering ? 

Mr. Young. I am unAvilling to engage in un-American activities 

Mr. Wood. Is that your reason ? 

Mr. Young. My reason has been clearly stated : I rely upon the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been affiliated, in the past, with the Civil 
Rights Congress? 

Mr. Young. I rely upon the fifth amendment of the Constitution of 
the United States, and refuse to ansAver that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed that various petitions 
were prepared by the Civil Rights Congress, protesting the indict- 
ment of the 12 Communist leaders in New York City, and that you 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2887 

were one of the signers, a signer of one of the petitions. I am not in- 
terested, particidarly, in whether you were or not. I am more inter- 
ested in ascertaining the circumstances under which your signature, 
or that of any other person, was obtained. Will you tell us that ? 

Mr. Young. Sir, T have explained to you my refusal to answer such 
questions. I think it would be quite foolish on my part, in view of the 
hysteria stirred up by this committee ; in view of the many bills hav- 
ing to do with people's political association, etc., to indicate to you on 
any question any information which might amount to testifying 
against "myself. Therefore, under the fifth amendment, I refuse to 
answer. 

JNIr. Potter. If there is any hysteria in this country, it is generated 
by people like yourself, and not by this committee. 

Mr. Young. Congressman, neither me or none of my friends were 
out at this plant the other day brandishing a rope in the face of John 
Cherveny. I can assure you I have had no part in the hanging or 
bombing of Negroes in the South. I have not been responsible for 
firing a person from his job for what I think are his beliefs, or what 
somebody thinks he believes in, and things of that sort. That is the 
hysteria that has be^n swept up by this committee. 

JNIr. Potter. Today, there are 104,000 casualties in Korea testify- 
ing to this fact of hysteria you so blandly mention, which is a cold- 
blooded conspiracy, which is killing American boys, and, you, as mem- 
bers of the Communist Party of the United States, are just as much a 
part of the international conspiracy as the Communists in North Korea 
who are killing men there. 

Mr. Young. I see you have on a decoration, and, I will inform you, 
I am also a veteran of the Armed Forces. I know you did your part. 
I want you to know I didn't have any part is sending anybody to 
Korea. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you approve of the action of the United States 
in Korea ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to allow this committee to pry into my per- 
sonal and private opinions. I got some opinion on it, however. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if your opinions have been private in 
that respect. According to the Daily Worker of July 24, 1950, you 
signed a statement issued by the Council on African Affairs against 
the United States' policy in Korea, is that correct? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer any such question, relying upon 
my rights under the fifth amendment. What was the organization 
you mentioned? 

JNIr. Tavenner. Council on African Affairs. 

Mr. Young. I would like for the record to show that organization 
has also been labeled as subversive. 

]Mr. Jackson. Is that positively on the record ? 

Mr. Young. Very definitely it is. 

Mr. Jackson. Let's make it very certainly a point, it has been 
labeled subversive, and there will be no doubt about it. 

JNIr. Wood. It might also, with ec[ual propriety, be injected in the 
record that the Daily Worker has been labeled as subversive by the 
Attorney General of the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask the witness, that prior to January 24, 
1950, did you know that the Council on African Affairs had been 



2888 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

labeled a Communist organization by the Attorney General of the 
United States ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer the question under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

]Mr. Ta\t]nner. Have you attended Communist Party meetings? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

]Mr. Tavenner. I think, you have, from time to time, been interested 
in political meetings in this area and the area around Detroit, have 
you not ? 

Mr. Young. I am interested in political meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a candidate for office ? 

Mr. Young. In 1948, 1 ran for State senator on the Progressive Party 
ticket. At that time, I was also State director of the Progressive 
Party. 

Mr, Jackson. What was the verdict of the people in that election ? 

Mr. Young. The verdict wasn't as good as your own. I wasn't 
elected, if that's what you mean. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with Pat Toohey. and did you 
receive support of his organization in your campaign? By organiza- 
tion, I mean, the Communist Party. 

Mr, Young. I have indicated I refuse to answer any such questions 
under the fifth amendment, 

Mr. Tavenner, Did you attend a banquet on May 17, 1941, given 
by the Communist Party of IMichigan, to welcome Pat Toohey as 
the new secretary of the Communist Party of Michigan? 

Mr, Young. I refuse to answer any such questions under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting in the Mirror Ballroom, 
2940 Woodward Avenue, on January 18, 1942, sponsored by the 
Communist Party of Michigan, and referred to as the Lenin Memorial 
Meeting and Pally for Victory? 

INIr. Young. I refuse to answer any such questions under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. I would like to know if you performed any services 
for the Communist Party, and, if so, how it was obtained, how you 
Avere induced to give it, in connection with the appearance in Detroit 
of Benjamin J. Davis in 1948? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer any such question, under the privi- 
leges of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you introduce him at a public meeting on 
July 27, 1948, at which time he spoke and made the statement "I am 
proud to be an Ameiican, a Negro, and a Communist" ? 

Mr. Young. For the same reason, I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Taati:nner. In speaking of un-American activities, which you 
said you would like to help the committee with, do you think it would 
be giving aid and comfort to the Connnunist Party, and assisting 
them in the attainment of its objectives, if people, with responsible 
positions in the community such as that which you held at that time, 
would actively support meetings at which known Comnumist members, 
such as Benjamin el. Davis were present, and where it was expected 
that statements of the character which I read to you would be made? 

Mr. Young. Are you asking me a suppositional question ? If you 
are, and want me to suppose, I will. I think that any meeting in which 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2889 

the first Negro councilman ever elected to the office in the State of New 
York were to attend would be of interest to a great number of Negroes. 
It would be to the credit of any party if that Negro were elected under 
the label of that party. That's my supposition in answer to your 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that regardless of whether or not he was elected 
on the Connnunist Party ticket, as a part of the Communist Party 
movement, if you knew it to be such ? 

]Mr. Young. Well, supposing again, I would think that Negro 
people would be more interested in what a given candidate's program 
might happen to be, and what he was going to do to improve the condi- 
tions of Negro people, than any label tagged on to him by such a com- 
mittee as yourselves and others. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not speaking of the committee. Benjamin J. 
Davis was an open member of the Communist Party; elected on the 
Communist Party ticket. He didn't have to be labeled. Pie labeled 
himself. Pie sai d, definitely, in tliis meeting — — 

Mr. Young. Personally, I would affirm any candidate for office by 
virtue of the program on which he ran, and on that basis only ; his pro- 
gram and his actions; these are the things which concern me as a 
voter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Therefore, if the Communist Party carried out its 
avowed objectives, its avowed program of working through mass 
organization, that is, by selecting groups of people and appealing to 
the particular items which that group is interested in, and organizing 
them as a Communist-front organization, because, that's what those 
organizations are, you would support such a thing, knowing that it 
is a Communist-front organization? 

Mr, Young. You can 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the sense and sum and substance of what 
you told us ? 

Mr. Young. You can draw the substance and sum you wish from my 
last answer, but, under the fifth amendment, I am not answering any 
question dealing with the Communist Party, and, I think, for pretty 
obvious reasons. 

]Mr. Tavenner. You state, you would sustain anyone who took a 
position which was favorable to the particular thing you were in- 
terested in? 

Mr. Young. "When I go in the ballot box, as of now, I have privacy : 
I vote as I see fit. Are you trying to invade the privacy of my ballot 
box? 

Mr. Tavenner. Not at all. 

Mr. Young. I don't see why you ask these questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a very important question. 

Mr. Young. You asked me how I vote. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a very important matter to determine to what 
extent the Communists, through Communist-front organizations, are 
endeavoring to injure the economics of this area, the religion of this 
area, the social life of this area, and, in fact, the whole political struc- 
ture as we know it in this country. 

Mr. Young. Well, I leave that to you. 

Mr. TA^^3NNER. It is that that we are attempting to get at. 

Mr. Young. I leave that to this committee to got it. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is that we are asking you to help us witli. 



2890 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr, Young. I think I have indicated what my reaction to that is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a Communist Party meeting lield 
at 2705 Joy Road, on March 18, 1950, in celebration of International 
Women's Day ? 

Mr. Young. I previously indicated my refusal to answer any ques- 
tions of that nature on the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting- of the Communist Party 
of Michigan on January 8, 1942, at which Pat Toohey, secretary of 
the Communist Party of Michigan, was a speaker ? 

IVTr. Young. I refuse to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Pat Toohey personally ? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Mr. Chairman, I think tliat is all. 

Mr. Jackson. I have several questions, Mr. Chairman. I assume, 
Mr. Young, that you believe in peace. 

Mr. Young. Do you believe in peace '? 

Mr. Jackson. I do. 

Mr. Young. I am for peace, too. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe that it is possible, in the present 
conflict, between the Soviet Union and the United States, to work 
out a just and lasting peace at the conference table? 

Mr. Young. I hope that it is. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you feel that it is possible for the United States 
and the Soviet Union to coexist side by side in the same world ? 

Mr. Young. If you mean by that, do I hope that the United States 
and the Soviet Union will not go to war, that is the other side of the 
question. 

Mr. Jackson. That is the obverse side. I certainly hope so. Do 
you believe in a more positive manner that it is possible for the Soviet 
Union and the United States to exist side by side in a peaceful world ? 

Mr. Young. I have indicated that I fervently hope that that is 
possible. 

Mr. Jackson. I am sure that we are all in full agreement on that 
point. However, Mr. Stalin has said that it is inconceivable that the 
Soviet Union and the United States shall long exist side by side ii; 
the same world. I think that is one of the very many clear warnings 
that we have had as to the ultimate goal of communism. Implemen- 
tation of tliat Communist policy is underway today on a dozen differ- 
ent fronts. Some of it is in the Armed Forces, some of it economic, 
some of it political, and some of it social. I have frequently expressed 
the o):)inion and I express it again, that I feel that anyone wiio takes 
up cudgels of the Communist Party today or lends any aid and assist- 
ance to the Communist Party in this country, in the light of what has 
developed over the course of the past 2 or 3 years, is in effect wielding 
a bayonet as efficiently as a Communist soldier in Korea is. Is there 
any portion of that with which you agree? 

Mr. Young. I will say that I am taking up the cudgels for the rights 
for full equality now and not 5 years from now, for my people. These 
are the cudgels that I am taking up. I don't know when you say 
"anybody" broadly Avhether you are inferring me or anything else, 

Mr. Jackson. I am not inferring anything. I am asking your opin- 
ion on that particular statement. As far as the war against fascism 
is concerned there has been more sacrifice made by the people 
at this table probably than by the majorit}^ of the witnesses who have 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2891 

appeared before the committee and. refused to answer on the j^rounds 
of the fifth amendment. Congressman Potter has made a tremendous 
sacrifice in the fight against fascism. 

Mr. Young. Tlie fight is still on. 

Mr. Jackson. We have acknowledged that out in California. The 
people 

Mr. Young. Some of the victims of this committee 

Mr. Jackson. The people of yonr race have ever}" privilege of the 
franchise. I do not think you can attack California or the California 
Member on that basis. 

Mr. Young. Can I say something on that ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. Young. Our San Francisco council, and we are a national 
organization, the National Negro Labor Council, just 1 month ago 
was successful in breaking down the Jim Crow hiring practices of the 
T System Street Railway that exists in San Francisco. That company 
])rior to that time discriminated against Negroes as bus drivers and 
also within the same month they were successful, after a long fight, 
in breaking down the discrimination that Sears, Roebuck, the com- 
panj^, held against Negro saleswomen. You can't tell me that Jim 
Crow doesn't exist in. California. There is a whole lot wrong with 
California that has got to be straightened out. 

Mr. Jackson. You said that there is a whole lot wrong with all the 
world. 

Mr. Young. I am interested in the United States and not the whole 
world. 

Mr. Jackson. Let us not lose freedom 

Mr. Young. That is the point, Mr. Jackson, I am fighting for free- 
dom mj^self. 

Mr. Jackson. So am I. Let us not lose individual freedom and 
human dignity by sacrificing it to an order of things which has 
filled concentration camps to overflowing. If you think of the lot of 
the Negi"o who have in eighty-some-odd years come forward to a 
much better position 

Mr. Young. ]Mr. Jackson, we are not going to wait 80 more years, 
1 will tell you that. 

Mr. Jackson. Neither are the Communists. They say they are going 
to overthrow the Government by force and violence and effect all the 
changes immediately. 

Mr. Young. If you are telling me to wait 80 years, I will tell you 
I am not prepared to wait and neither are the Negroes. 

Mr. Jackson. Neither is the Communist Party. 

Mr. Young. I am speaking for the Negro people and for myself. 
Are you speaking for the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Jackson. I am speaking of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Young. I thought you were speaking for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. No. I think there are many in this room who are 
better qualified to speak for the Communist Party than I am. Mr. 
Chairman, I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Young, I believe in your statement that you said 
that you were in the service fighting fascism during the last war. 

Mr. Young. That is right. 



2892 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Potter. Then it is proper to assume that you are opposed to 
totalitarianism in any form, as I am. 

Mr. Young. I fought and I was in the last war, Congressman, that 
is correct, as a Negro officer in the Air Corps. I was arrested and 
placed under arrest and held in quarters for 3 days in your country 
because I sought to get a cup of coffee in a United States Officers Club 
that was restricted for white officers only. That is my experience in 
the United States Army. 

Mr. PoTi^ER. Let me say this, I have the highest admiration, yes, the 
highest admiration for the service that was performed by Negro sol- 
diers during the last war. They performed brilliantly. 

Mr. Young. I am sure the Negro soldiers appreciate your admira- 
tion, Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. At tlie same time, while I am just as much opposed 
to nazism and fascism as j^ou are, I am opposed to totalitarianism in 
any form. As you ^^'ell know the Communist International as dic- 
•tated from Soviet Russia is probably the most stringent form of to- 
talitarian government in the world today. In case, and God forbid, 
that it ever happens, but in case the Soviet Union should attack the 
United States would you serve as readily to defend our country in case 
of such eventuality as you did during the last war ? 

Mr. Young. As I told you, Congressman, nobody has had to ques- 
tion the patriotism, the military valor of the Negro people. We have 
fought in every war. 

Mr. Potter. I am not talking about the Negro people, I am talking 
about you. 

Mr. Young. I am coming to me. I am a part of the Negro people. 
I fought in the last war and I would unhesitatingly take up arms 
against anybody that attacks this country. In the same manner I am 
now in process of fighting against what I consider to be attacks and 
discrimination against my people. I am fighting against un-Amer- 
ican activities such as lynchings and denial of the vote. I am dedi- 
cated to that fight and I don't think I have to apologize or explain it to 
anybody, my position on that. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Young, you have many, many groups in this coun- 
try that have the same purpose as what you are sponsoring here. Let 
me tell you this, the thing that you claim is your objective will not be 
accomplished by men like yourself. 

Mr. Young. That is your opinion. 

Mr. Potter. Absolutely that is my opinion and that is all. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I have one further question, Mr. Chairman. Have 
you at any time been chairman or in any other way connected with 
the Veterans' Affairs Committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Young. I refuse to answer that or any similar question under 
my privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused from further attendance before the committee? 

Mr. TwTDNNER. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Committee will stand in recess for 15 minutes and the 
witness is excused. 

(The witness was excused.) 

(A short recess was taken.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2893 

Mr. Wood. Let lis have order, please. Are you ready to proceed, Mr. 
Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I would like to call Mr. William R. Hood. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Hood. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Hood. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM R. HOOD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

ERNEST GOODMAN 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Hood? 

Mr. Hood. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Goodman. I am Ernest Goodman of the Cadillac Tower, Detroit, 
Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ? 

Mr. Hood. My name is William R. Hood. 

Mr. Tavenner, Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Hood ? 

Mr. Hood. I was born in 1910, but I categorically refuse to tell you 
where I was born. My father and mother are still in Georgia. I will 
write the name to the committee. My uncle was killed by a mob. I 
don't want them persecuted. I talked with my mother already and 
the hysteria created here in this Georgia city — with my father in busi- 
ness and my sister a school teacher in Georgia, I don't want them per- 
secuted or to have reprisals as the result of my behavior in the city of 
Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. Hood. I came to Detroit in 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. How have you been employed? 

Mr. Hood. I traveled for a life insurance company in the State of 
Georgia. 

Mr. Tavenner. I meant here in the State of Michigan. 

Mr. Hood. I worked at Chevrolet Gear & Axle, I think it was a 
short period in 1942 and I left because of discriminatory practices. 
They wouldn't promote or upgrade me, I was hired by the Ford 
Motor Car Co., January 26, 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you have been working there since? 

Mr. Hood. I have been working for the Ford Motor Car Co. with 
the exception of the time I have been the representative and recording 
secretary of the largest union in the world, the UAW-CIO, Ford 
local 600. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what period of time did you occupy that 
position? 

Mr. Hood, I have occupied that position for 4 years and will be 
running for my fifth term in office this coming June, 

Mr, Tavenner. I am sorry, I did not get the beginning of your 
service. 

Mr, Hood. I was elected recording secretarv of local 600 4 vears 
ago. I hope I will be elected for the fifth time this June in spite of 
this committee. 



2894 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of September 1, 1951, carries an 
article on page 1 to the effect that you spoke in New York City on 
behalf of Louis Weinstock who had been indicted under the Smith 
Act. Is it correct that you did speak in behalf of Louis Weinstock at 
that time ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer about my appearance in New York in 
behalf of Mr. Weinstock under the privileges of the fifth amendment; 
however, I might tell you that I am very sympathetic toward minority 
people and other people that are kicked around in this Nation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you sympathetic to Mr. Weinstofk, who was 
charged, under the Smith Act, with advocating the use of force and 
violence in the overthrow of the Government of this country ? 

Mr. Hood. I do not advocate the overthrow of the Government by 
force and violence. The methods and approaches used by the Gov- 
ernment in trying to arrive at certain conclusions — I refuse to answer 
in respect to Mr. Weinstock on the basis of the privileges granted me 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Weinstock live in Detroit at any time? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the im- 
munities which I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know on September 12, 1951, that Louis 
Weinstock had been a functionary of the Communist Party for a 
number of years ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer any questions similar to that in re- 
spect to any individual's participation in anything, under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of having sympathy, as I understand it, 
for Weinstock ?  

Mr. Hood. I didn't say I had sympathy for Weinstock. I said I 
have sympathy for persecuted people in America and all over the 
world. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you consider that Weinstock was being per- 
secuted 'i 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer any question with respect to Wein- 
stock under the immunities of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Daily Worker of November 19, 
1951, page 2, you were reported as being among the speakers at the 
Twentieth Anniversary National Conference of the American Com- 
mittee for the Protection of the Foreign Born. Did you make such 
an address on that occasion ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to testify to this committee about any speeches 
I made other than those speeches that I made to my activity in local 
600 as a functionary of the National Negro Labor Council for which 
I thought I was here, according to the press releases, anyway, yes- 
terday. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you willing to tell the committee whether or 
not you were approached, and if so by whom, to assist in the meeting 
that I referred to, the American Committee for the Protection of the 
Foreign Born ? 

Mr. Hood. I think it logically follows that the question asked me 
now would be lefused on the basis of my privileges and on the basis 
of your first question — on the basis of the privileges granted me under 
the Constitution of the United States and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you refuse to answer? 



COMMrNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2895 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer and I so indicated in my remark. 
Perhaps you didn't hear me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether Abner W. 
Berry, to your knowledge, was active in the work of the American 
Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born or at least that 
branch of it which was in the area of Detroit ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer. I could say I don't know but I re- 
fuse to answer on the basis of the privileges granted me under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did I understand you to say to begin with that you 
did not know ? 

Mr. Hood. I am not going to use it — I don't know. I don't. I said 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta^'enner. Privately you are telling me you do not know but 
for the record you will not answer. 

Mr. Hood. I say for the record that that question — I don't know 
wliat you are trying to lead it into. But I have certain privileges 
which I will clothe myself with on the basis of the experiences that I 
have had of this committee many of which are very, very penetrating to 
my heart, for example, calling a Negro in the Congress of the United 
States a black s — of-a-b — . I have nothing but utter contempt for 
a group like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider that that is in any way responsive to 
any question that I asked you? Are you not trying deliberately to go 
beyond the inquiry of tliis committee for the purpose of creating a 
scene? Is that your purpose? 

Mr. Hood. I would like very much for the committee to categori- 
cally understand that the line of questioning you have given me and 
my answers are certainly predicated on some of my experiences in 
America which I think this committee should be cognizant of and per- 
fectly willing to do something about. There is something happening 
in America which evidently you do not know about which is un- 
American. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you are not willing to give this committee any 
information relating to the subject of this inquiry, which is commu- 
nism in Detroit ? 

Mr. Hood. You ask me your questions and I will decide at that time 
whether I will answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you a question. 

INlr. Hood. What is the question? 

Mr. Tavei^ner. Did Abner Berry 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me finish the question. 

Mr. Hood. You have already asked it and now my mind is refreshed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your mind is refreshed?" 

Mr. Hood. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your decision ? 

Mr. Hood. My decision is that on the question of Abner Berry v\'ith 
respect to some civil rights outfit in Detroit, I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Potter. Do you know the gentleman ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer whether I know Abner Berry under 
my privileges, logically concluding that you will go into a million 
other things. 



2896 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Potter. ^Vhen the question Avas first asked you. you said, on the 
side, "I don't know the man." 

JNIr. Hood. I didn't say anything of that nature. If you ask me 
whether I said it, I think I am intelligent enough to answer you. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Let's get the record clear, do you kiiow him. 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer for the privileges that I have. I told 
you I am no stool pigeon, and just like Mr, Young told you, if you 
know that I know him let the record show it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the basis for your answer ? 

Mr. Hood. My privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Potter. But knowing this gentleman, do you feel that might 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Hood. I am clothed with certain privileges. I have the pre- 
rogative to call on them when I so desire under the amendment, which 
evidently the framers of the Constitution making this amendment 
certainly figured at some time under tyrannical find liA^sterical con- 
ditions a person would use them. 

Mr. PoTiER. If you do not know this gentleman then certainly 
there will be nothing incriminating in answering that question. 

Mr. Hood. The question of conclusions is left to me. I am here as 
the witness and not you. 

Mr. Potter. You have been debating this question. 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer. I am not debating and I so indi- 
cated in my previous statement that I made, Congressman Potter. 

Mr. Potter. I will not argue. That is all right. I am a very 
tolerant man. 

Mr. PIooD. So am I tolerant. All in spite of what has been heaped 
on me. 

Mr. Potter. There are many people who have had adversities. 

Mr. Hood. Not as many as the Negro people in America. 

Mr. Potter. I have nothing further. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Michigan Worker, page 10, May 
21, 1950, you were one of those who protested the prosecution of 
Eugene Dennis, according to our information. Is that correct? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer any questions with respect to Eugene 
Dennis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why ? 

Mr. PIooD. Under the privileges of the fifth amendment, which I 
have aforementioned. If it is not monotonous I will tell you every 
time. I said "afore-mentioned" for the conservation of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are reported having been a sponsor of the Mid- 
Century Conference for Peace held in Detroit in May 1950, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me explain, before you give your final answer, 
I am interested in knowing the circumstances under which your sup- 
port of that matter was obtained if it was obtained. Does that change 
your answer ? 

Mr. Hood. I don't think it would, based upon my knowledge of this 
committee. I don't think it would change it, counsel. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. As the recording secretary of the CIO, Local 600, 
UAW — I seem to have it backwards — were you required to sign a 
non-Communist affidavit ? 



COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 2897 

Mr. IIooD. I was, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign it ? 

Mr. Hood. I did, sir, for four consecutive years. I have been 
elected and I hope to sign it again. 1 hope I will be elected. 

Mr. Tavenner. In view of tliat, may I ask M-hether at the time you 
signed the affidavit you were a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hood. I was not a member of the Communist Party. 

]Mr. Tavenxer. Have you been a member at any time since the time 
you first signed that ? 

Mr. Hood. I have not been a member of the Communist Party 
from the time I first signed it. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information indicating that in 
1947 you were issued a 1947 card, No. 68126 of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Hood. It is a damned lie. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Hood. I have already answered that question. As a Negro- 
American, based upon this conmiittee's action, I refuse to testify about 
my past action in respect to the question that you asked me, under the 
fifth amendment. That is the answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not understand your answer. Have you ever 
been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hood. I told you I refused as a Negro American particularly 
for reasons of my own. I refuse to answer that question under the 
fifth ameiidment. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. When you say you refuse to answer for reasons 
of your own, to what are j^ou referring? Are you referring to the 
fifth amendment or some other reason ? 

Mr. Hood. Counsel, will you please phrase your question again? 
Will you repeat the question ? 

INIr. Tavenner. Will you read the question ? 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. Hood. I am referring to the fifth amendment. I am not a law- 
yer but I said the fifth amendment. These are my own reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then if I understand your testimony correctly, you 
denied that you have been a member of the Communist Party at any 
time within the past 4 years, which is the period of time you have been 
the recording secretary of the UAW but you refuse to answer whether 
or not you have ever been a member of the Communist Party, is that 
your testimony ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Jackson. I move that the witness be directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Goodman. Just one moment, please. 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer any question as to whether or not I 
have been a member of the Communist Party previous to 1947. 

Mr. Wood. In view of the fact that the witness has testified that he 
was not a member of the Communist Party from 1947 to the present 
time, this Chair holds that the question as to whether or not he has ever 
been a member of the Communist Party is pertinent and directs the 
witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer the question under the immunities of 
the fifth amendment. 



2898 COMMUXISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. Hood, according to the Daily Worker of 
October 23, 1951, page 3, you are said to have been a sponsor of a 
dinner at 13 Astor Place, New York City, to be given on October 26, 
1951, for the defense of Dr. W. E. B. DuBois and sponsored by the 
trade-union committee to defend Dr. W. E. B. DuBois. If it is true 
that you were one of the sponsors of that dinner, 1 would like to know 
how your sponsorship was obtained. 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer under the privileges of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is also informed through notices in 
the Daily Worker of December 5, 1951, on page 2 and in the same paper 
of September 10, 1951, page 3, that you were scheduled as a speaker 
at a rally to be held in St. Nicholas Arena in New York City on Sep- 
tember 10, 1951, for the repeal of the Smith Act. Do you recall 
whether or not you spoke on such occasion ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

IVIr. Tavenner. Mr. Hood, the Washington, D. C, Evening Star 
of October 30, 1951, on page 7, carried a paid advertisement which was 
an open letter to J. Howard McGrath, Attorney General of the United 
States, protesting the jailing of four trustees of the bail fund of the 
Civil Rights Congress. Your name appears as one of the signers to 
that open letter. Will you tell the committee who solicited your 
signature and what interest was involved in soliciting your signature, 
if it was so obtained ? 

Mr. Hood. I refuse to answer under the privileges of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what you know, if any- 
thing, regarding the bail fund plan for use of members of the Com- 
munist Party which existed within the Civil Eights Congress or any 
other group ? 

Mr. Hood. The bail right fund ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, bail iund. 

Mr. Hood. Wliat is that? 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the paid advertisement from which it 
appears that you were a signer, a protest was made regarding the jail- 
ing of the trustees of the bail fund of the Civil Rights Congress. I 
am asking you now that you tell us what you know about the use 
of bail funds by the Civil Rights Congress. If I have not made it 
plain, I will break it clown. 

Mr. Hood. I think I understand your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will break it down a little more if you would like. 

Mr. Hood. There is no necessity for it. I refuse to answer it on 
the basis of the immunities of the fifth amendment. 

INIr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no questions. 

]Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused from further attendance and a 
recess will be taken until 2 o'clock. 

(The witness was excused.) 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 30 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 2 p. m. 
this same day.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2899 



AFTER RECESS 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

By direction of the subcommittee conducting these hearings, I desire 
to read into the record the following communication, that has just 
been received from Rev, Malcolm Gray Dade, D. D., rector of St. 
Cyprian's Episcopal Church of Detroit, Mich. 

BACKGROUND 

Born in New Bedford, Mass. 

Educated — Williston Academy ; University of Pennsylvania ; Lincoln Univer- 
sity, Pennsylvania ; the Episcopal Theological School affiliated with Harvard 
University. 

Rector, St. Cyprian's Episcopal Church, Detroit, Mich., for past 16 years. 

Formerly assisted at Christ Church, Cambridge, Mass., the church where 
George Washington attended. 

Father is Attorney I. C. Dade of New Bedford, Mass., who was the son of a 
slave, born in Virginia, and is the only living charter member of the New Bed- 
ford Bar Association. 

AFFILIATIONS 

Board of Detroit American Red Cross. 

Represented Episcopal Church World Conference in Holland, 1939. 

Former member executive committee of the Diocese of Michigan, highest gov- 
erning body of the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Michigan. 

Founder, President, Westside Human Relations Committee. 

Gi'and Chaplain, I'riuce Hall Masons of MicliLgan. 

Appointed by Mayor Van Antwerp on skid row committee. 

Appointed by Mayor Jeffries on interracial committee. 

Appointed by Mayor Cobo on loyalty commission. 

Honorary degree, Wilberforce University. 

The disparaging remarks expressed yesterday by a clergyman before the Un- 
American Activities Committee makes imperative a statement by a minister of 
the Gospel of Christ, of the true feelings of the Negro religious community re- 
garding communism. 

Now is the time for every American, Hebrew, Protestant, and Catholic, to stand 
up and be counted for true Americanism. Because I have received innumerable 
blessings and opportunities first as an American, and secondly as a Negro, we 
want to point up the position of the church with communism. 

The Episcopal Church, my faith, is a member of the Lambeth Conference, a 
world-wide body composed of more than 350 bishops of the Anglican communions, 
meeting in July and August 1948, stated in no uncertain terms, the church's con- 
flict with communism. The conference recognized as so many religious leaders 
of various faiths do, that communism is most devilish, because it assumes virtues 
going in the wrong direction. 

The Communists expected that Negroes would be taken in, particularly church 
people, because communism professes to accept men regardless of race, into 
membership. But the Negro church looked far down the road, to perceive, that 
the means used concealed devious ends, a godless society. Neither the Negro 
church nor its membership were fooled or won over. For deep in the very marrow 
of the Negroes' bones and roots, is a sincere love for God and a tested loyalty 
to his country. He knows no other homeland to call his own than the United 
States of America. When its security is threatened, he closes ranks with his 
fellow Americans. 

From the leadership in the days of the late Rev. William H. Peck, most out- 
standing Negro leader, minister of Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church 
down to the present leadership of the Rt. Rev. George W. Baber of Detroit, Bishop 
of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, Mrs. Bethune, Dr. Bunche, and 
others, he will always woi-k for his civil rights within the framework of the 
Constitution and with final appeal to the highest courts of the land. Every 
Negro man, woman, and child knows that from the days of slavery to the pres- 
ent, the Negro church has preached the preciousness of individuality, black and 
white under God because we are all God's children. At the same time the Negro 
church has openly been the one meeting place for rousing and vigorous protest, 

97097— 52— pt, 1 13 



2900 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

political and social, toward achieving full integration in the American life 
as a Christian virtue and a political privilege in our country. 

For these positive reasons, the Negro disapproves any feeling for communism. 
He is looking forward to the realization of the American goal and dream, the 
family of strong brothers, friendly neighbors working together for a real democ- 
racy under God. . 

(Signe<^l) Rev. Malcolm G. Dade. 

Are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavexner. I'd like to call Mr. Stanley Xowak again. 

Mr. Crockett. I am appearing for Senator Nowak. Senator No-- 
wak is ill and I assured you at this time I would have a statement f rom_ 
his physician. I have this statement which I shall give to connnittee 
counsel to examine, then I ask that it be made a part of the record. 

I am informed by the senator himself that his doctor visited him 
this morning and told him he had a temperature of 101.9, tliat there 
was the threat of pneumonia and that lie should not go out of the 
house for at least 2i hours. 

I would like for the record to show that it has been snowing in 
Detroit all of the morning and I think that makes it pretty evident 
that there must be some basis for tlie doctor's conclusion. I would 
suggest to the chairman that Senator Nowak's appearance be post- 
poned until tomorrow morning, at which time I will make a further 
report concerning his condition. 

Mr. Wood. Will you read the statement, counsel, or having exam- 
ined it, are you satisfied ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The certificate shows tliat the temperature at 10 : 30 
a. m. on February 28, was 101.8. 

Mr. Wood. That is today, isn't it ? 

Mr. Tavexner. That is today and I cannot make out the exact 
language but apparently it is in the left chest posterially, bronchial 
rales, which means a bronchial involvement. I am unable to make 
out several of the words. 

Mr. Wood. Well, if the senator has a temperature to that extent 
and in view of the inclement condition of the weather, I am certainly 
inclined to regard that showing and postpone his appearance her© 
until tomorrow. It will be so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call Mr. Kobert Ciunmins. 

Mr. Wood. ]\Ir. Cummins, you do solemnly swear that the evidence 
you give this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God 'i 

Mr. Cummins. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT CUMMINS, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

SEYMOUR GOLDMAN 

Mr. Wood. ]\Ir. Cummins, are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. CuMMixs. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify iiimself for the record 
including his professional address. 

Mr. Goldman. Seymour Goldman, 122-2 Ford Building in Detroit. 
If it please the cominittee, ]Mr. Cununins has recpiested that during the 
course of his testimony no pictures be taken and he will submit him- 
self to the photograpl'iers at their convenience after his testimony. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2901 

Mr, Wood. I request, g-eutlemeD, that the wishes of the witness be 
respected and that no further pictures be made until his testimony 
is conchided. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Cfmmixs. Robert Cummins. 

Mr. Tavenner, When and where were you born, Mr. Cummins?' 

Mr. CuM3iiNS. I was born on Julv 28, 1916, in Chippewa Falls, 
Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a resident of the State of Michigan? 

Mr. Cummins. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside ? 

Mr. Cummins. At 3026 Pingree in Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit? 

Mr. Cummins. For about 10 or 11 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, a brief sketclx 
of your educational background ? 

Mr. Cummins. I am a graduate of the University of Michigan,, 
1937. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. What briefly has been your record of employment? 

Mr. Cummins. Could you be specific as to the time in that question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, since the completion of your educationaE 
training in 1937. 

Mr. Cu.MMiNS. I will invoke my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexner. Will you state wliat your employment has been 
since you came to Detroit, which I believe you said was 10 years ago^ 

Mr. Cummins. That is right. I will invoke my privilege under 
the fifth amendment and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you employed at this time? 

Mr. Cummins. I am not employed at the present. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long has it been since you were employed f 

Mr. Cummins. My last job ended at about Christmastime of last 
year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of 1951? 

Mr. Cummins. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What employment were you engaged in at that 
time ? 

Mr. Cummins. I was selling paint. 

Mr. Tavenner. For whom ? 

Mr. Cummins. For Montgomery Ward & Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you been engaged in that work? 

Mr. Cummins. Since last spring. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how had you been employed? 

Mr. Cummins. I decline to answer that question, invoking my privi- 
leg'e under the fifth amendment. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Mr. Cummins, I show you an application for pass- 
port which was issued on June 4, 1937. It is a photostatic copy of a 
passport. Would it examine it please and state whether or not yom 
executed it? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment, 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the passport and read what it 
says as to the country in which travel was sought to he engaged ? Now 
will you read what it says? 



*&"e5^ 



2902 COMJMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr, Cummins. I think it is your job to read the document into the 
record. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read it for you then. At the top of the 
second page of the application there appears the following language : 
"I intend to visit the following countries for the purposes indicated : 
Great Britain, study and travel." 

Did you travel to'Great Britain in 1937? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. You stated earlier that you were at the University 
of Michigan in 1937, is that correct? 

Mr. Cummins. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you leave the institution ? 

Mr. Cummins. I graduated in June of 1937. 

Mr. Ta^t<;nner. This application bears date of June 4, 1937. Will 
you examine the photograph appearing on the application and state 
whether or not it is a photograph of you ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my ])rivilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Cummins, that you did not in- 
tend to go to Great Britain for the purpose of study and travel, but 
you actually intended to go to Spain to fight as a member of the 
Abraham Lincoln Brigade? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you are concerned about any possible criminal 
prosecution for the preparation of a false application for passport, 
the statute of limitations would have long since elapsed and if that 
is true on that ground as far as a false application is concerned, it 
has been held many times that the provision of the fifth amendment 
would afford no immunity. 

You may consult with counsel and obtain his advice on that sub- 
ject if you desire. So as far as any danger of criminal prosecution 
from the making of a false application for a passport is concerned, 
there could be no fear of criminal prosecution as the statute of limita- 
tions has run. So I would like to ask you again whether or not you 
did state in your application to travel to Great Britain that the trip 
was for the purpose of study and travel whereas in fact you desired to 
travel to Spain to fight as a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade 
in the Spanish War ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did anyone solicit your participation in the fighting 
in Spain? 

-Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do j^ou know of any person at the University of 
Michigan other than yourself who made an application for passport 
to go to Spain for the purpose of fighting in the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege vnider the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. TA^^HNNER. Did you go to Spain for the purpose of fighting in 
the Abraham Lincoln Brigade? 



COMMUNISxM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2903 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you inform tlie committee how persons who 
accepted the enlistment for fighting in Spain received their transpor- 
tation or the money for their transportation abroad and who made 
the arrangements for the transportation, if you know? 

Mr. Cummins, I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you recall the exact date of your graduation 
from the ITniversity of Michigan ? 

Mr. CuMariNS I do not. 

Mr. Taat.xner. Was it about the date of June 4 or later of the 
yeai- ll>o7 ? Would it have been a day later than June 4, 1937 ? 

Mr. Cummins. I don't know. 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. Was there in existence on the canijius of the Univer- 
sity of Michigan at the end of the term year of 1937 and during the 
term, a Young Communist League chapter? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer a photostatic copy of the passport 
in evidence, Mr. Chairman, and ask that it be marked "Cummins 
Exliibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. Let it be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Cummins Exhibit No. 1" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavt3nner. Are you acquainted with Richard M. Scammon? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to ansAver that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. The name of Richard M. Scammon appears as the 
identifying witness in your application. Was he a person known to 
you to be a member of the Communist Party or the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to inquire whether or not you 
ordered the filing of the exhibit ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a record ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time employed by the Interna- 
tional Steel Co. ? 

Mr. Cummins. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that ? 

Mr. Cummins. In the summer of 1936, 1 believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you so employed ? 

Mr. Cummins. By the International Steel Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what place? 

Mr. Cummins. Evansville, Ind. 

Mr. Tavenner. How hmg were you in Evansville, Ind., in the em- 
ployment of the International Steel Co. ? 

Mr. Cummins. For only part of one summer, that summer of 1936. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Was there a unit of the Communist Party or a 
club or cell of the Communist Party formed and established in the 



!2904 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

International Steel Co., in Evansville, Ind., during the period you 
were there ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
.and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you an organizer of the Communist Party 
Avhile you were living in Evansville, Ind. ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
;and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. After your employment ceased at the International 
Steel Co. in Evansville, Ind., where did you go for employment? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment, I 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to the city of New York? Were you 
ever employed in the city of New York ? 

Mr. Cummins. I was employed in the city of New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. When ? 

Mr. Cummins. I was employed in the city of New York for a 2-year 
period extending from 1939 until 1941 by the National City Bank of 
New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. While in New York did you perform any service 
for the Communist Party or were you in any way active in the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
.-and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to the State of Michigan ? 

Mr. Cummins. I have been in and out of the State of Michigan 
more than once. I have left the State on many occasions and I have 
returned on many occasions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, after your employment ceased in New York, 
when did you return to the State of Michigan to accept employment ? 

Mr. Cummins. It was either in September or October of 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, have you been employed outside of the State 
-of Michigan since that time? 

Mr. Cummins. I served in the United States Army from May 12, 
1942, until December 3, 1945, although I would not describe that as 
ii normal employment or employee relationship. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is true. 

Mr. Cummins. Beyond that I have not been employed outside of 
the State of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were discharged from the Army in 1945 
did you retui'u to Detroit and have you been employed here since? 

M-V. Cummins. I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. After 3^011 returned from Army service, did you 
"become State secretary for the Michigan State chapter of the Amer- 
ican Youth for Democracy? 

Mr. S[T]\iMiNS. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
.and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any part in or do you have any 
knowledge of the establishment of the American Youth for Democracy 
on the same day that the Young Communist League was disbanded? 
Do you know anything about the facts as to that? 

Mr. CuMJiiNS. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
sind decline to answer that question. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2905 

Mr. Ta\T5nner. Were you at any time a candidate for political office 
in the State of Michigan ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexner. Were you not a candidate for Congress in the Sec- 
ond Congressional District on the Communist Party ticket? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a flyer which is entitled "Commu- 
nist Candidates in Michigan," and I will ask you to examine it and 
state whether or not you can identify it as showing the slate of Com- 
munist Party officers who ran for election and advise me what year 
those candidates stood for election. 

Mr. Cummins. I will repeat my observation that it is not my task 
but yours to read these documents and to enter them in the record as 
evidence. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhat is your recollection as to the year in which 
those officers named there stood for election ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavexner. Will you examine the reverse side of the document 
and state wdiether or not your name appears there? 

Mr. Cummins. May I request that the record show that this docu- 
ment was turned over ? 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Yes — was turned over? 

Mr. Cummins. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you see the side to which I am referring? 

Mr, Cu3iMiNS. I do ; I have seen both sides. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Well, do you see on either side your name as a can- 
didate for a political office? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer both sides of the document in evi- 
dence as Cummins' exhibit No. 2. 

JNIr. Wood. Let it be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Cummins Exhibit No. 2" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. On the front side appears the photograph of Hugo 
Beiswenger for United States Senator. The date does not appear, 
and on the reverse side I will read the following Communist candi- 
dates : Secretary of State, Abner W. Berry ; attorney general, Philip 
Raymond ; State treasurer, Geneva J. Olmsted ; United States Senator, 
Hugo Beiswenger ; Representative in United States Congress, second 
district, Robert Cummins; representative in State legislature, Wash- 
tenaw County, second district, Thomas Dennis. 

Was that not in the election of 1946 ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. JSIr. Cummins, have you ever interested yourself in 
the recruiting of youth into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you the original of a letter with the date not 
shown other than January 7 addressed to "Dear Wayne" and signed 



2906 COMJMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

"Comradely, Bob Cummins," and ask you whether or not that is your 
sifjnature to the letter ? Did you look at it ? 

]\Ir. Cummins. I have looked at it and in answer to your question 
1 invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and decline to an- 
swer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the letter in evidence and ask that 
it be marked "Cummins Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Wood. Let it be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Cummins Exhibit No. 3" 
and received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. There was a witness who appeared before the com- 
mittee a few days ago by the name of Wayne Salisbury. Were you 
acquainted with him? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to read this letter into the 
record. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner (reading) : • 

January 7. 

Dear Wayne: I expect you have already seen a copy of this call, but I am' 
trying to write a special follow-up letter to all the out-State clubs. I am hoping^ 
to see you at this conference with one or more other comrades from Jackson, 
young or old, if at all possible. 

The theme of the conference is going to be Building the Party Among Youth, 
with special panel discussions on how to do it in the shops, in the communities, 
and on the campus. 

We intend to stress the concentration on working class and Negro youth. Also 
we have to take a big step toward working out a rounded-out Communist Party 
program for the youth of Michigan. We have to make the entire party better 
able and determined to take up the needs of youth and to recruit youth because 
a handful of youth clubs in Detroit by tliemselves cannot recruit l250 to 300 
youths this spring and those are the terms in which we are thinking. 

I believe this conference will meet head-on the key questions in the youth 
field but it won't mean a thing with delegates from all the different clubs 'to 
help work out these questions, get and give ideas, and carry them back to their 
clubs. 

So let's see Jackson there Sunday. We are going to have a party the night 
before (Saturday, the 11th). We are arranging housing for out-of-town dele- 
gates so that they can come to the party. We will have a place for you and the 
others from Jackson but let me know right away whether you can come for the 
party and how many. 
Comradely, 

Bob Cummins. 

Did Wayne come to the party ? 

Mr. Cummins. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, INIr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 
. Mr. Jackson. I have no questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be ex- 
cused from further attendance? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess for 15 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2907 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee come to order. Mr. Counsel, at the 
beginning of these hearings hist Monday, I made an announcement 
that in keeping with the general policy of this connnittee over a long 
period of years, any person who is mentioned in connection with tes- 
timony here who desired to do so mi^ht apply to the conunittee for 
permission to appear and make a denial or explanation of anything 
that is said concerning it. 

Pursuant to that I have been requested by one William A. Record, 
Avhose name was mentioned in the testimony of Richard O'Hair, to 
be permitted to appear before the committee and if it doesn't interfere 
with your program too much, I am inclined to have him break in now 
so we can hear him. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is all right, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is William A. Record in the hearing room ? 

Mr. Record. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Will you stand and be sworn, please? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Record. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM ANDREW RECORD • 

Mr. Wood. Do you have counsel representing you ? 

Mr. Record. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Do you desire an attorney ? 

Mr. Record. No, sir. I came down to the FBI, and they sent me 
down here. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is your name, please ? 

Mr. Record. William Andrew Record. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your name is William A. Record ? 

Mr. Record. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the first day's testimony I understand Mr. 
O'Hair mentioned your name as a person who was a member of the 
Communist Party and you did desire to come in here and tell this 
committee what you know about the matter ; is that it ? 

Mr. Record. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you just go ahead and tell the com- 
mittee what you desire to tell them. 

Mr. Record. Well, my first hearing of this was when I read the 
paper, I think, Tuesday. My wife showed it to me in the Free Press. 
She said "You have got your name in the paper."' I didn't pay much 
attention to it. I was working on a job and that night I guess all my 
friends called me. They said, "Hello, you Red," so I thought it was a 
joke, but the next day my employer called me and discharged me on 
account of this writenp in the papers. 

So I didn't know what to do, so yesterday I called the FBI and they 
said, "Well, we can't do anything about a retraction of the statement. 
Did you belong to the Comnninist Party?" I told them I joined the 
Midtown Club back in 1943, that is 8 or 10 years ago and I remember 
attending one meeting; I remember paying 1 month's clues and sub- 
scribing for the Daily Worker paper ; that they came out to see me 
once or twice and when I learned about the party I severed all con- 



2908 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

nection with it. I never sa^Y or heard of them any more and I haven't 
been in any of their meetings. 

I have never attended any meetings at any time and I know only 
one man's name mentioned in the paper and that may not be the James 
Anderson that I know. There was a James Anderson, I think, men- 
tioned in the papers, so I came down here today and talked to some- 
one in the FBI. They said, "The best thing for you to do is to go down 
to the committee room and ask to speak to somebody connected with 
Mr. Wood's committee. They will tell you what to do." 

I came down to the door here and got the news reporter and here 
I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, how did you happen to get into the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Record. I was working at the Diesel Motor, a General Motors 
concern, and I belonged to the — I joined the local 63. Now, when I 
went there I was a sweeper and I was told by some member of this 
workers' club, "You may get upgi'aded if you join the workers' club." 
All sweepers started in at General Motors or Diesel at 85 cents an hour. 
There was no seniority among the Negroes there because they never 
used Negroes in the plant before. So I worked along as a sweeper. 
I did join this Midtown Party, then I was 

My. Tax-enner, Were you upgi'aded after you got into the party? 

Mr. Record. No. I was upgraded before I got into the party to 
99 cents. The party didn't upgrade any at all because I never had 
anything to do with their — I went from 99 to $1.09 and rated as a 
truck driver, and I stayed there until the end of the war. I went 
back to the hotel and I have been a hotel bellhop for 35 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, let me get clearly under what circum- 
stances you were to be upgi^aded. 

Mr. Record. If I would join the workers' club there would be a 
chance for upgrading from 85 cents up, but that didn't develop be- 
cause I was upgraded by the general superintendent of the plant to 
99 cents. I never heard any more from the party. They came to my 
house once if I make no mistake, and I paid a month's dues and sub- 
scribed for the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I am trying to find out what the workers' club was,, 
that is, what it turned out to be. 

Mr, Record. It turned out to be the Communist Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Club ? 

Mr. Record. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. As an inducement to get you to come into the Com- 
munist Party, you were told if you did you Avould be upgraded? 

Mr. Record. Upgraded and make more money per hour. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, after you got into tlie Communist Party yoU- 
stated you paid dues? 

Mr. Record. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were the dues fixed? 

Mr. Record. Well, when I went in I think I paid $1.25 to join. I 
think it was $1.25 and it was told to me it would be 50 cents a month. 
I understood it to be 50 cents a month and you have a chance to be 
upgraded and a chance to make more money. When they came around 
I was told about this party, and well it was just like the Democratic 
Party or Republican Party or any other party. I said, "O. K." They 
came around and wanted 10 percent of my earnings. That is when I 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2909 

blew up and threw the thing out the window. That is the truth and 
that is what you asked me for. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what we wanted — the truth. I have no 
furtlier question. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Record, what individual approached you ? Who 
recruited you into the party? 

Mr. Record. Well, as far as the recruiting, I don't remember his 
name, but he is deceased I am sure now. I learned that he died some 
years ago. The only one person that I can remember — only two fel- 
lows came to my house, one colored fellow and one white fellow and 
one of their names was James Anderson, the only name I know. I 
remember I never had any affiliation with any other one. 

Mr. Jackson. Where was the one meeting that you attended held? 

Mr. Record. The one meeting held was somewhere on Twelfth 
Street, now, as near I can remember around Euclid or Philadelphia — 
around Twelfth Street back in the year 1943. I was only there once. 

Mr. Jackson. Approximately how many people were in attend- 
ance? 

Mr. Record. There was not over 8 at the most, between 5 and 8, I 
think. 

Mr. Jackson. What transpired at this meeting? 

Mr. Record. It wasn't very much of anything because there wasn't 
anything — anyone there. The felloAv I had taken out there, he had 
been talking to me in the plant and then induced me to join the 
meeting — the party, and I did join. 

Mr. Jackson. You said that you took him out there ? 

Mr. Record. Yes; he didn't have a car, so I had taken him out on a 
Sunda}^ morning. That is when I joined, one Sunday morning and 
it was in the summertime. 

Mv. Jackson. Was this Anderson ? 

Mr. Record. No ; I met Anderson at my home. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, who was the other individual involved? 

Mr. Record. I don't remember his name. He was a little fellow — 
he is a colored fellow. 

Mr. Jackson. I congratulate you on your decision to come down 
here, Mr. Record. I think it was probably a very wise thing to do. 

Mr. Record. Thank j^ou, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope it will be taken into consideration by your 
employer that you were willing to come forward and cooperate with 
the committee. 

Mv. Record. Thank you. sir. 

Mr. Potter. I, too, Mr. Record, hope your employer will see fit now 
that the story is well known as to how you happened to get fooled into 
joining the party — that is, after you found out the true purpose, you 
immediately severed all connections and for the past 10 years you had 
no connection with it as you have sworn here — to take this into con- 
sideration and reinstate you on the basis that your employer would be 
doing a great service, I think not only to you, "but to the work that the 
committee is engaged in. 

Mr. Recokd. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. ' 

Mr. Wood. Thank you for coming here, sir, and you are excused, 

(The witness was excused.) 



2910 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. The next witness is Mrs. Lorraine Meisner. 

Mr. Wood. Will yon please stand and be sworn? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

TESTIMONY OF LORRAINE MEISNER 

Mrs. Meisner. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Crocket. I am Mr. Crockett, Mr. Chairman, appearing for Mrs. 
Meisner and I request that no photographs be taken during her testi- 
mony. 

Mr. Wood. Is tliat your wish that no photograi)lis be taken? 

Mrs. Meisnek. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. I will ask that the photographers respect it. 

Mrs. IMeisxei!. Are no statements to be read? 

Mr. Wood. Just submit it to the reporter and it will be accepted 
for consideration. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 

Mrs. Meisner. Lorraine Meisner. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your name prior to your marriage with 
Mr. Meisner ? 

Mrs. Meisner. Lorraine Faxon. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do j'ou live? 

Mrs. Meisner. 3042 Gladstone. 

Mr. Ta\'Enner. When and where were you born, Mrs. ^leisner? 

Mrs. Meisner. Chicago, 111., November 9, 1931. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training? 

Mrs. Meisner. Grade school, high school, and 2l^ years of college. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you attend college? 

Mrs. Meisner. Wayne. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wayne University ? 

Mrs. JVIeisner. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What employment have you had since the comple- 
tion of your 21/^ years at Wayne? 

Mrs. Meisner. Well, I am still attending at Wayne. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You are still at Wayne ? 

Mrs. Meisner. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a student? , 

Mrs. Meisner. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Meisner, in May of 1951, you made an applica- 
tion for a United States passport for the purpose of making a trip to 
France, England, Italy, Switzerland, and Germany, according to 
information that the committee has. Now what was the purpose of 
your trip? 

Mrs. Meisner. I will not answer that question placing myself on the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an application for 
passport bearing date of May 16, 1951. Will you examine it please 
and state whether or not you have signed it ? 

]\Irs. Meisner. I refuse to answer that question also placing myself 
on my fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the application as evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Meisner Exhibit No. 1." 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2911 

Mr. Wood. Let it be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Meisner Exhibit No. 1 
and received in evidence. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. According to this apphcation for passport there ap- 
pears under the hearing "Purpose of Trip : Sightseeing and Advanced 
Education." Is it true that you went abroad for that purpose, that iSj 
sightseeing and advanced education ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I will keep the same answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, didn't you go for a very definite 
* purpose different from that which I have mentioned '. 

Mrs. Meisner. I'd appreciate not answering the question under my 
fifth-amendment privilege. . . 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice that the names of the countries to be visited 
according to this exhibit No. 1 are France, England, Italy, Switzer- 
land, and Germany. How many of those countries did you go to, if 

any % 
Mrs. Meisner. Eelying on my fifth-amendment privilege, I will not 

answer that question either. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you contact the Council For Student Travel in 
regard to travel abroad during the year 1951 ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I would also like to decline to answer that question 
on the same basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any students at Wayne University 
other than yourself who applied for passport to go to Europe during 
li;ol? 

Mrs. jVIeisner. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner, Who were they % 

Mrs. Meisner. I am informed that I may decline to answer now 
on the basis of the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Wood. Do you so decline for that reason ? 

Mrs. Meisner. Yes, sir, for that reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Leonard Cohen's passport, and he was a stu- 
dent of Wayne University, taken up at the port of embarkation ? 

Mrs. IMeisner. I would like to decline to answer that on the basis 
of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Maurice Meisner, a student at the university, 
go to Europe in 1951? 

Mrs. Meisner. I'd like to decline on that one because a wife doesn't 
have to testify about her husband. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Well, when were you married ? 

Mrs. Meisner. February 3, 1952. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. 1952? 

Mrs. Meisner. Three and a half weeks ago. 

INIr. Tavenner. The committee has conducted an investigation re- 
garding the trip to Europe of a number of persons from the United 
States who participated in the Berlin Youth Festival in Berlin, and 
according to its information as a result of its investigation, a number 
of those who went have told us that in going to East Berlin, they 
traveled into France where they boarded the Batory at Le Havre and 
they traveled on the Batory to Gdynia, Poland, and proceeded from 
there into the Soviet zone of Berlin by train. 

Do you know anything about the transportation into East Berlin 
by way of Poland ? 



2912 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Meisner. I would like to decline to answer that question on 
the basis of the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Wood, Is that the route that you took to get there ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I will also decline to answer that question on the 
basis of the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Meisner, I would like to ask you what knowl- 
edge you have regarding the ]:)urposes of the World Youth Festival 
which was to be held hi East Berlin during 1951, and in particular 
the report appearing in a publication entitled "For a Lasting Peace 
for the Peoples' Democracy" published in Bucharest, which publica- 
tion is an "Organ of the Information Bureau of the Communist and 
Workers' Parties" as shown on the masthead of the paper? 

According to the issue of Friday, August 3, 1951, that organ of 
the information bureau had this to say about the purposes of this 
festival : 

The Third World Youth Festival is opening in conditions of international ten- 
sion ; when the American imperialists have switched to open preparations for 
another war and even to direct acts of aggression involving all the Marshallized 
countries in their criminal gambles and placing the burden of the monstrous 
armaments drive on the shoulders of the working people; when in Korea, which 
has been attacked by imperialist plunderers, tens of thousands of young lives 
are sacrificed. 

Then in a further statement regarding the purpose of this meeting 
it is said : 

The United States imperialists and their direct agents — the governments of 
national betrayal in the Marshallized countries, the right wing Socialist leaders, 
the Tito Fascist gang and Vatican — are doing their utmost to corrupt the youth 
morally. The press, radio, and cinema controlled by the imperialists and the 
bourgeois school in which as Lenin put it, "The younger generation of workers 
and peasants were not so much educated as drilled in the interests of this 
bourgeoisie," — all these means of ideological inlluence are used by the incen- 
diaries of another war in order to poison the minds of the youth with the venom 
of Chauvinism and racism to make it the obedient executor of the will of the 
enemies of mankind. 

Do you support those statements with regard to the purposes of the 
meeting of the World Youth Festival ? 

Mrs. Meisner. Since the document is not in evidence, I can't agree 
that what you are reading is a truthful statement so I can't make any 
comment on it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Assuming what I have read is correctly read and 
truthfully read, do you agree with it ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were those purposes as I read to you, known to you 
prior to the date of the application for passport as the purposes for 
which the AVorld Youth Festival was being held ? 

Mrs. Meisner. The same answer and the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me read you an excerpt from the same publica- 
tion but of the issue of August 10, 1951, 1 week later than the first 
where there appears an article entitled "Review of Forces of Young 
Fighters for Peace, Tliird World Youth Festival" and I read this 
paragraph : 

The moment the youth of the Chinese peoples' republic appears, all rise to 
their feet and the cries : "Long live Mao Tse Tung !" resounds from end to end 
of tlie stadium. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2913 

With unanimous entliusiasm and tumultuous aijplause, the onlookers express 
ardent sympathy with the proudly marching delegates of the valiant youth of 
Korea— sons and daughters of the people who are waging heroic struggle against 
the American aggressors. 

Did there come to your knowledge at any time that this youth 
festival supported that idea, America being an aggressor against the 
Chinese people or the Korean people ? 

Mrs. Meisxer. I would like to decline to answer that on the basis of 
the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, prior to the date of your application for pass- 
port of May 16, 1951, was an effort made to teach you and other persons 
at Wayne University or any other place to your knowledge, that the 
United States Government was the aggressor in Korea? 

Mrs. Meisner. As far as I know, Wayne University has never en- 
gaged in such teaching. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Well, did anyone make an effort to teach you or to 
lead you to believe such a thing to be a fact ? 

Mrs. Meisxer. I would like to decline to answer that question on the 
basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I should make it clear I intended to make no refer- 
ence to Wayne University as such teaching a doctrine like that. Now, 
is there a Communist Party cell or group among the students of 
Wayne University to your knowledge? 

Mrs. Meisner. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you tell the committee please, who con- 
ferred with you, if anyone, in an effort to interest you in taking a trip 
to the meetings of the third World Youth Festival in East Berlin ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I decline to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you or Maurice Meisner speak before a com- 
mittee of the Michigan Council for Appeasement and report on your 
experiences as delegates to the Berlin Youth Festival ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I decline to answer that claiming the privilege of a 
wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you appear at any such peace meeting and 
make a report regarding your experiences at the Berlin Youth 
Festival ? 

Mrs. Meisner. I decline to answer on the privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Connnunist P;jrty? 

Mrs. Meisner. I decline to answer that on the basis of my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You don't take these questions very seriously, do 
.you ? 

Mrs. Meisner. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't think so. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, do you have any questions you'd like to 
ask the witness ? 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any relatives serving in Korea? 

Mrs. Meisner. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Jackson. Perhaps if you had some relati\^s serving in Korea 
who were subjected to Communist attacks, this entire proceeding might 
take on a somewhat more serious aspect to you. I have no further 
questions. 



2914 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. 

Mr. Wood. Are there further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I call Mr. Patrick F. Rice. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Rice, will you stand and be sworn, please sir? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Rice. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PATRICK FRANCIS JOSEPH SHANNON RICE, ACCOM- 
PANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, ERNEST GOODMAN 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Goodman. 

Mr. Goodman. My name is Ernest Goodman, Cadillac Tower, De- 
troit, Mich. I desire to request that photographs be withheld until 
after my client's testimony. He woidd much prefer it that way. 

Mr. Wood. Are those your wishes, Mr. Rice? 

Mr. Rice. Correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please sir? 

Mr. Rice. Patrick Francis Joseph Shannon Rice. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, sir? 

Mr. Rice. Belfast, Ireland. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and through what port did you enter the 
United States? 

Mr. Rice. New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you take up your residence upon arrival 
in the United States ? 

Mr. Rice. Marion, Ohio. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you take up your residence at Marion? 

Mr. Rice. Somewhere along 1921 or LaRue, Ohio, near there — 
they generally call it Marion, Ohio — a little town called LaRue. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live there ? 

Mr. Rice. Oh, perhaps about 3 months. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Where did you move from there ? 

Mr. Rice. To Cleveland, Ohio. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live at Cleveland ? 

Mr. Rice. Oh, about 3 or 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. From there where did you move ? 

Mr. Rice. Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that means you came to Michigan about when! 

Mr. Rice. Oh, somewhere around 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived continuously in Detroit since 1925 f 

Mr. Rice. I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have never resided at Cleveland other than the 
3 or 4 years that yoif mentioned ? 

Mr. Rice. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your educational background, please? 

Mr. Rice. High school. 



'to^ 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2915 

Mr. Tavennek, What has been your principal employment since you 
have been in Detroit? 

Mr. Rice. The Ford Motor Co. 

Mr. Tavennek. During what period of time have you been on the 
payroll of the Ford Motor Co. as distinguished from the seniority pay- 
roll or list '( 

Mr. EiCE. Well, 1935, I rehired there— 1935. About 17 years ago 
I started in Ford's. 

Mr. Tavennek. AVhat type of work were you engaged in at the Ford 
Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Rice. Substation operator. 

Mr. Tavennek. How long did you work as a substation operator? 

Mr. Rice. 17 years. 

Mr. Tavennek. I believe you hold an official position with Local 
600, UAW, is that right? 

Mr. Rice. I am vice president of local 600. 

Mr. Tavennek. When were you elected to that position ? 

Mr. Rice. Approximately 2 years ago. 

Mr. Tavennek. Is that a full-time assignment? 

Mr. Rice. It is. 

Mr. Tavennek. Well, during the period of time that you have been 
vice president of the local, have you held any other employment or 
job at the plant? 

Mr. Rice. No; that is the full-time job. 

Mr. Tavennek. Now, Mr. Rice, I show you a photostatic copy of an 
application for passport which was allegedly executed by you on June 
11, 1951. I ask you to examine it please and state whether or not you 
signed the application. 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavennek. Did you check your signature with some papers 
before answering ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment and I re- 
fuse to answer. 

Mr. Ta\'ennek. I offer the copy of the application in evidence and 
ask that it be marked "Rice Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Rice Exhibit No. 1" and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Ta\^nnek. I ask you to look at the photograph appearing on 
the last page and state whether or not it is a photograph of you. 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my right and privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavennek. I will read to you from the first page of the appli- 
cation the following : 

I immigrated to the United States on or about August 1921. I resided con- 
tinuousl}^ in the United States from 1921 to 1951 at Cleveland, Ohio. 

Was that a truthful statement? 

Mr. Rice. I refuse to answer that question on the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavennek. As a matter of fact, you have not lived in Cleve- 
land from 1921 to 1951, have you ? 

97097 — 52 — pt. 1 14 



2916 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr, Rice. I invoke my riglit under the fifth amendment privilege 
and refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. You lived in the city of Detroit for 17 years prior 
to the date of June 14, 1951, had you not? 

Mr. Rice. I have lived in Detroit 17 years. 

Mr, Tavenner. What was your purpose in stating to the United 
States Government tliat you have lived in Cleveland continuously 
from 1921 to 1951, if you have lived 17 years of that time in Detroit? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Looking at the lower left-hand block on the first 
page of the application where blanks are provided to be filled in re- 
lating to the description of the applicant tliere appears under the 
title Occupation," "substation operator," Was that a truthful state- 
ment on June 14, 1951 ? 

Mr, Rice, I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer, 

Mr, Tavenner, Having testified as j^ou did a few moments ago that 
for the past 2 years you have held the position of vice president of 
local 600, which was a full-time job, and that you were not otherwise 
employed in any type of work at the Ford plant, what was your rea- 
son for stating that in 1951 you were a substation operator ? 

Mr, Rice. I invoke my right under the fifth amendment and refuse 
to answer, 

Mr, Tavenner, Could it be that because you did not desire tlie Gov- 
ernment to know of your connection with labor in Detroit at the time 
you made an application to travel abroad that you gave the answers 
which I have mentioned with regard to your residence and as to your 
occupation ? 

Mr, Rice, I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and re- 
fuse to answer, 

Mr, Tavenner. On the reverse side of the application on page 2 
there appears the "'Following title to be answered with regard to travel 
plans." Under the heading or statement "Approximate date of de- 
parture," there appears printed by pen and ink, "2-3 June 1951." And 
opposite the title "Proposed length of stay abroad," "30 days." 
"Countries to be visited : France, Italy, Ireland, and Scotland" ; "the 
purposes of trip : labor interests." 

Mr. Rice, what was your real purpose for filing an application to 
travel abroad ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. With whom did you discuss the filing of an applica- 
tion for passport before filling it out? 

Mr. Rice, I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer, 

Mr, Ta\t.nner, Had you determined prior to the time of filing this 
application that you would extend your visit into such countries as 
France, Italy, Ireland, and Scotland? 

Mr, Rice, I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. In filling out this application, did you intentionally 
deceive the United States as to the exact place of your destination? 



COMJVIUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2917 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Taa^nner. After applying for the passport, did you change 
your plans about going abroad ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you intend to go to Germany at the time you 
filled out this apiilication ? 

Mr. Rice. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you planned to attend the Third World Youth 
Festival in East Berlin? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was a passport issued to you? 

Mr. Rice. I received a passport. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you travel under it ? 

Mr. Rice. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege and refuse to answer under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rice, I have before me a photostatic copy of a 
letter dated June 25, 1951, on the letterhead of Ford Local 600, which 
letter was addressed to R. B. Shipley, Chief of the Passport Division, 
Department of State, Washington 25, D. C. This letter is signed by 
"Pat Rice, vice president." Do you recall writing a letter, the photo- 
static copy o'f which I am exhibiting to you ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photostatic copy of the letter 
in evidence and ask that it be marked "Rice Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Wood. It will be received. 

(The document referred to was marked "Rice Exhibit No. 2," re- 
ceived in evidence, and contains the following:) 

Foe Local 600, UAW-CIO 

10550 Dix Avenue — Dearborn, Michigan 

Carl Stellato, President Walter Connors, Trustee 

Pat RicEj Vice President William Carr, Trustee 

William R. Hood, Recording Secretary George LaMarque, Trustee 

W. G. Grant. Financial Secretary Andy Dewar, Sergeant at Arms 

Job Rivers, Guide 

June 25, 1951. 
Re : E-130— Rice, Patrick Frank 
K. B. Shipley, 

Chief, Passport Division, Department of State, 

Washington, D. G. 

Deae Sir: This letter is written in reply to your speedletter of June 20th 
requesting that I s^ubmit a letter from the organization under whose auspices I 
am traveling abroad. 

I am not traveling under the auspices of any organization. I am taking this 
trip abroad as a vacation and for aiy own knowledge and benefit. Originally 
I had intended to take a vacation to the land of my birth, Belfast, Ireland. How- 
ever, I have been invited by representatives from other countries in Europe, 
visiting Local 000 under the auspices of tlie Moral Rearmament Program to visit 
them in their own countries. 

I am, therefore, planning to visit Otto Sperling of the '"Weld der Arbeit" news- 
paper located at Berlin W30, Nurnberger Strasse 53/55 — Zimmer 363 — Telefon 



2918 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

240011/556, who has extended a personal invitation to me. I have also received" 
an invitation from a former deputy from France visiting Local 000, under the 
Moral Rearmament Program, to visit the Manson at 22 Avenue Victor Hugo, 
Boulogne Sur yeine, Paris, France, Mol Q652 (Molitor). 

I am also planning to visit the Trade Unions International of Metal and En- 
gineering Industries in France, Britain, and Italy ; the Paris office is located at 
10, rue Vezelay, Paris 8 eme, France. 

I felt that these invitations alTorded an excellent opportunity to get first-hand 
information on what is going on in Europe. This trip is for ray own information, 
and observation and also in support of Senator Edwin Johnson of Colorado's 
peace resolution introduced in the United States Senate. 
Sincerely yours, 

[s] Pat Rice, Vice President. 

PR/mot. 

liu72cio. 

Airmail Special Delivery. 

Mr. Tavenner. This letter, Mr. Rice, according to the first para- 
graph, was your reply to a communication from R. B. Shipley which 
communication you described as a speed letter of June 20. What is a 
speed letter ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Well, from your letter there is the inference that 
R. B. Shipley had written you on June 20 asking you for a further 
explanation of the purpose of your travel abroad because you on your 
application for passport indicated that your purpose of travel was 
labor interest. R. B. Shipley was advised by you that you were not 
traveling under the auspices of any organization, that you were taking 
the trip as a vacation and for your own knowledge and benefit you ad- 
vised R. B. Shipley that when you applied you originally intended to 
visit tlie land of your birth, Belfast, Ireland, but that you had been 
invited by the representatives from other countries of Europe to visit 
them. These representatives were described by you as the Europeans 
who had visited and inspected the Ford plants under the auspices of 
the moral rearmament program. Is that not true ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were the representatives of the Moral Re- 
armament Program in Detroit as visitors of your plant? That is of 
the Ford plant? 

Mr. Rice. Oh, I believe around July of last year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then that would have been after the filinor of vour 
application and could have had nothing to do with your decision to go 
abroad because your application is dated June 14. Will you give us 
the real reasons for your going abroad ? 

Mr. Rice. Will you ask that question again, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Read the question ? 

(The question was read by the official court reporter.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I should say your real reasons for making an ap- 
plication for passport to travel abroad. 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it true that any conversation you may have 
had with the people representing the Moral Rearmament Program 
would have had nothing to do whatever with the filing of your appli- 
cation to travel because they didn't arrive at your plant until July 
and your application was filed on June 14? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2919 

Mr. EiCE. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whj did you desire to deceive the Department, that 
is the Passport Division of the State Department, by telling them that 
you had been invited by Europeans who had visited and inspected the 
Ford plants under the auspices of the Moral Rearmament Program? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who assisted you in the preparation of this letter 
of June 25, 1951, offered in evidence as exhibit 2 ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rice, did you discuss your proposed trip to 
Europe with William Allan, the editor of the Michigan Worker? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know William Allan ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rice, I show you a photographic reproduction 
'of a snapshot and ask you if you can identify the woman whose pic- 
ture appears there ? Is that Ann Beiswenger ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the photograph in evidence and ask that it be 
marked "Rice Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Rice Exhibit No. 3" and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did William Allan introduce you to Ann Beiswenger 
for the purpose of having her discuss with you a trip to Europe ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. TA^^;NNER. Did Ann Beiswenger talk to vou about a trip to 
east Berlin in 1951? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my pi'ivilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised by her regarding the plans in 
which you sliould prepare your application for passport? 

Mr. Rice. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you cautioned not to list the countries or places 
behind the iron curtain where you expected to go, that is list them in 
your application? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you propose to travel under the auspices of the 
coordinating committee to survey trade union conditions in Europe? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were the funds to come from to defray the 
•expenses of the trip which you proposed to take but did not take ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 



2920 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Taatenner. Now, referring again to your letter of June 25, 1951,. 
Rice exhibit No. 2, the last paragraph reads as follows : 

I felt that these invitations afforded an excellent opportunity to get first-hand 
Information on what is going on in Eui-ope. This trip is for my own information 
and observation and also in support of Senator Edwin Johnson of Colorado's 
peace resolution introduced in the United States Senate. 

Will you explain what you meant by that? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. How could a trip to Europe by you be in support of 
Senator Johnson's resolution regarding peace ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. The resolution by Senator Johnson refers to the war 
now being staged in Korea, does it not? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Ta-\^nner. Before making your decision not to travel under the 
passport which had been issued you, did you learn that Leonard 
Cohen, a student at Wayne University, had been stopped and that his 
passport had been picked up and he was not permitted to engage in this 
travel ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Could the action in this case have had any effect 
upon your decision not to go ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment and refuse 
to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of false representa- 
tions on the part of others or any person regarding the real purpose 
of this trip behind the iron curtain, that is the trip to attend the Third 
World Youth Festival in east Berlin ? 

Mr. Rice. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I believe as long as t he Moral Rearm- 
ament Program has been mentioned, the record should positively 
show that no taint attaches to the movement and to the contrary, that 
the gi'oup has done a considerable amount of good work throughout 
the world. I have one question of counsel : For how long does the 
statute of limitations run upon passport cases ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Three years. 

Mr. Jackson. Has this expired? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Rice, evidence has been submitted here to the effect 
that you have intentionally falsified documents to your Government. 
A person who will do that is of such a character tliat his dealings with 
other people cannot be trusted. I have very little use for a man of 
that integrity. 

Mr. Goodman. I think that statement is very unfair, Mr. Potter. 
There is no evidence of that kind introduced here. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2921 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Rice has had plenty of opportunity to comment 
on the photostat of the passport. 

Mr. Goodman. The statements made by counsel here, in my opinion, 
constitute no evidence of the charge that you have made here. 

Mr. PoT'rER. Mr. Rice has had an opportunity here to deny the 
charges or deny the statements made on that passport. 

Mr. Goodman. Mr. Rice's effort to avoid this, which obviously ap- 
pears to be a frame-up for him, is not to be considered under the fifth 
amendment as any evidence of guilt and I think, Mr. Chairman, that 
Mr. Tavenner will state to the committee that the fifth amendment 
protection is not evidence of guilt on the part of any witness. 

Mr. Wood. I am going to take issue with you on that proposition. 
When a man takes advantage of the fifth amendment to refuse to an- 
swer a question, he is testifying falsely or the question if answered, 
would be exactly what he says 

Mr. Goodman. Would you allow me to say this : I have read a num- 
ber of decisions of the United States Supreme Court 

Mr. Wood. So have I. 

Mr. Goodman. That is within the last few weeks and one thing they 
have all said. Representative Wood, is this: That the fifth amend- 
ment protection being derived from the English law follo^ying the 
Inquisition is such that it is considered a protection for the innocent 
primarily, and that is what the courts have said, and no inference 
of guilt can be drawn from the witness" refusal to answer a question 
under it. 

I think Mr. Tavenner, if he is a sincere "attorney, will tell you 
the same thing, that is, Avhat the courts have said. 

Mr. Jackson. I should like to say that I did make a remark and I 
will stand upon the remark that "the statement made in testimony 
by the witness on his passport application that he had resided continu- 
ously in one city and the statement made in testimony upon his ap- 
pearance on the stand of an entirely different nature has nothing 
to do with the fifth amendment. 

These are two statements which are in conflict and which in my 
ojnnion need to be resolved by the proper agency of Government. 

Mr. Goodman. That is a question which we can disagree upon as 
attorneys, but on the question of guilt or innocence with respect to 
the fifth amendment, no lawyers will disagree on that. 

Mr. Jackson. I make no charge of guilt against Mr. Rice. I saj' 
the cognizant agency of Government should proceed immediately in 
my opinion to determine the facts in this case. 

Mr. Goodman. Will you agree with me that no person is deemed 
to be guilty because he refuses to answer under the fifth amendment? 
Won't you agree with that? 

Mr. Jackson. I will agree with you to that extent, but what the 
American people think and what assumption they draw is an entirely 
different thing in light of the nature of the testimony and the atti- 
tude of the witness who testified. 

Mr. Goodman. It is the only defense you have against an inquisition 
of any kind whether it is a committee of Congress or any other in 
my estimation. That is what the court has said and I believe it. 

Mr. Wood, No further questions? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 



2922 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be fur- 
ther excused? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It will be so ordei-ed. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I call Mrs. Ann Beiswenger. 

Mr. Wood. Please stand and be sworn? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
}OU God ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ANN BEISWENGER, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, HAROLD NORRIS 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Wood. Would counsel please identify himself for the record 
including the professional office address. 

Mr. NoRRis, My name is Harold Norris of the Michigan bar, Penob- 
scot Building, Detroit. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I ask that the com- 
mittee ruling with regard to pictures being taken during the course 
of the testimony be enforced. 

Mr. Wood. Do you object to pictures being made of you ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. Well, during the testimony, but after the testi- 
mony they are free to take pictures. 

Mr. Wood. I will ask the reporters to respect her wishes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. My name is Mrs. Ann Beiswenger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mrs. Beiswenger ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I reside at 7485 Cortland in Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I have lived in Detroit approximately 16 or 17 
years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Beiswenger, I hand you Rice exhibit No. 3, 
which is a photograph. Will you examine it, please, and state 
whether or not it is a photograph of you ? 

Mr. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question under my fifth 
amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Beiswenger, on May 15, 1951, did you meet 
with Art McPhaul at the offices of the Michigan Chapter of the Civil 
Rights Congress as far as you can recall ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. The same answer for the same reason already 
given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at or about that time. May 1951, engaged 
in the effort of attempting to line up trade-union delegations to visit 
European countries ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I decline to answer the question under my fifth 
amendment privilege. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you communicate with Mr. Patrick Rice, either 
in person or through another, and advise him that you desired to dis- 
cuss a matter with him which concerned the whole country ? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. Same answer for the same reason already given. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2923 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you endeavor to interest Mr. Rice in making 
a trip to Europe to attend the third youth festival in east Berlin^ 

Mrs. Beis\\t:nger. Same answer for the same reason ah-eady given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you give him any advice regarding the filing 
of his application for a passports 

Mrs. Beiswenger. Same answer for the same reason already given. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You have been identified during the course of the 
testimony here as having been a member of the Communist Party. 
I want to give you an opportunity to either deny it or affirm it, if you 
will. 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I decline to answer that question under my fifth 
amendment privilege and for the additional reason that the first 
amendment to the Constitution guarantees free thought, free ideas, 
et cetera. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Supreme Court of the United States has held 
in the case involving the 10 Hollywood writers that in a question of 
tliat kind, the first amendment is not involved. 

Mrs. Beiswenger. If you will note, I said that I declined to answer 
the question under my privileges under the fifth amendment and for 
the additional reason of my privileges under the first amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? _ 

Mrs. Beiswenger. I clecline to answer the question under my privi- 
leges of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Beiswenger. Same answer and same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. The witness will be excused from further attendance. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Is that all for today ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The committee stands in recess until 10 o'clock in the 
morning. 

(Whereupon, at 4:30 p. m., the committee was recessed to recon- 
vene at 10 a. m., Friday, February 29, 1952.) 



COMMUNISM m THE DETROIT AREA— PART 1 



FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 29, 1952 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Detroit^ Mich,. 

public hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to call at 10 : 45 a. m., in room 740, Federal Building, Detroit, 
Mich., the Honorable John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood, Don- 
ald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; John W. Carrington, clerk; and Don- 
ald T. Appell and Jackson Jones, investigators. 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please. Let the record disclose there 
are present the following members of the committee : Jackson, Potter, 
•and Wood, constituting a majority of the subcommittee. 

Wlio will you call? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Stanley Nowak. 

STATEMENT OF GEORGE W. CEOCKETT, JE., COUNSEL FOR 

STANLEY NOWAK 

Mr. Crockett. Mr. Chairman, I am attorney for Mr. Stanlej'^ 
IN^owak. I am appearing again for Senator Nowak. I spoke to Mrs. 
Nowak this morning, and she informed me the senator is still ill. 
His temperature is hovering somewhere around 99 degrees ; still has 
soreness of the throat, pain in the chest. I talked with Dr. Klein, 
whose statement was made a part of the record on yesterday. He 
advises, in his opinion, it w^ould be inadvisable for the senator to leave 
his room, even if he felt better. He should have at least 24 hours of 
•convalescence. I think the chairman mentioned the inclemency of 
the weather, and I would like to note on the record, the weather is 
still inclement. Under the circumstances, Mr. Chairman, I suggest 
that the return date of the senator's subpena be extended until such 
time as the committee desires. 

Mr. Wood. Certainly, the committee has no desire to jeopardize 
the safety of any person on account of these hearings. Since it is 
hoped that the full connnittee will grant permission for a subcom- 
mittee to return here in tlie very near future, I suggest, Mr, Counsel, 
that the subpena of Senator Nowak be continued until such time as 
lie may be notified, by wire or otherwise, to appear here. 

2925 



2926 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Cliairman, would you mind continuing it and' 
extending it to tlie 10th of March? 

Mr. Wood. All right, extend it to the 10th of March, with the un- 
derstanding, if it isn't released at that time, it will be further extended. 

Mr. Crockett. Very well. I also represent Mr. James Watts, of 
Ford local 600, whose subpena is returnable before this committee 
today. I would like to know if the committee will reach Mr. Watts 
today. 

Mr. Wood. I did understand that all m itnesses who were supposed 
to, appear today had been notified. 

Mr. Tavenni:r. All witnesses who liave been subpenaed to appear 
today and tomorrow have been notified by telegram of the extension 
of their subpena until March, I think, until March 10, Some of the 
wires have come back because of incorrect addresses, and, probably^ 
your client was one. 

Mr. Wood. If he hasn't received such notification, you may convey 
it to him. 

Mr. Tam^.xxer. It is. I understand, for ^Nlarch 10, 11, and 12. 

Mr. Wood. In the light of Nowak's absence, who do you have'^ 

Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. I would like to call Mrs. Toby Baldwin. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Baldwin, please. Mrs. Baldwin, will you raise 
your riglit hand, please, and be sworn ? You do solemnly swear that 
the evidence you give this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, sir. 

i TESTIMONY OF BERENIECE "TOBY" BALDWIN 

Mr. Wood. Now, are you represented by counsel, Mrs. Baldwin ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No, I am not. 

Mr. Wood. If you desire counsel at any time during the j)roceedings, 
you have the right to get one. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, will you please state your full name 
for the record, and your address ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Bereniece Baldwin, 16272 East State Fair, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I w^as born in 1902, in Blount Pleasant, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner, Will you state for the committee, please, what your 
educational training has been ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I have completed elementary, 3i^ years of high 
school. I have had secretarial college work, graduate, and I have taken 
teletype typing, interior decorating, restaurant management, and so 
forth. 

Mr, Ta\t5nner. How long have you lived in Detroit? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Practically all my life. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline to the committee what your em- 
ployment background has been, please ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I have done secretarial work in the past for the 
Michigan Central Depot. I have managed a restaurant, and, I have 
done technical work including bookkeeping for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, at a trial before the Internal Security 
Board in Washington, D. C,, you were disclosed by the Department 
of Justice to have been an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2927 

Investigation. Will you explain to the committee briefly what led 
up to your joining the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Prior to my marriage to Harvey Baldwin, he was 
than my fiance, in November, December of 1942, he suggested that I 
assist the Government, because of my secretarial knowledge. He took 
me downtown to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and introduced 
me to an FBI agent, with whom we had a brief conversation. At that 
time, he asked that we return after we had been married. We were 
married in Februar^^ the 14th, 1943, and in April we returned to 
talk to this agent, and it was at that time the question of joining the 
Communist Party arose, so as to be able to report its activities. This 
agent promised me, at the time, he would let me know^ when the next 
Communist Party rally would be held. 

I went into this thing not knowing exactly what the Communist 
Party was, and it was more or less to assure myself I would be able 
to handle it, or would care to handle it. In May — May 7 — the agent 
■called me and told me there would be a rall}"^ for Earl Browder 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that May 7th the meeting was held? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was prior to the meeting. He called me on 
the 7th and told me the rally would be held on the 10th of May. 

Mr. Tavenner. What year ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. 1943. My husband and I attended this meeting, and 
joined directly following the speakers. 

Mr, Tavenner. Who was the Communist Party member who ac- 
tually recruited you into the party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. His name is Pete Kowal, and, he had been referred 
to me by David McKelvy White, who was setting up literature in 
the hall at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the name of Kowal ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. K-o-w-a-1. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the person who referred 
you to Kowal ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. David McKelvy Wliite. He was formerly educa- 
tional director, I believe, and, he also handled literature. He is now 
•deceased. 

Mr. Taatenner. Was the middle name McKelvy ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I thought it was McKelvy. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, after you were recruited into the party, were 
you assigned to any particular cell or group of the party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Approximately, the middle of May, 1943, I 
received my membership card, and, also, a notice of a meeting to be 
held at 5642 Michigan Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat branch or what group of the Communist 
Party did you discover that to be ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was then called section 3, Branch 157. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in that branch or unit 
•of the party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Until November of 1943, at which time I was trans- 
ferred to a newly organized group, or community group, which ac- 
commodated Eastside residents of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it have a name? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, the Frederick Douglas Community Group. 



2928 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. After that, were yoii assigned to any additional 
group ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. The following year, in June, of 1944, I was 
transferred to the 14th Congressional Group, a breakdown of the 
Frederick Douglas Group, because of the number of members. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the time that you were a member of sec- 
tion 3, Branch 157, which was your first assignment, and the Fred- 
erick Douglas Group, your second assignment and the 14th Congres- 
sional District Group, which was your third assignment, did you 
occupy any position, administrative position or other type of position 
in the party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Upon entering the Frederick Douglas Group, 
I became what they called a group steward, and was responsible for 
keeping track of members, collecting of dues, recording it and report- 
ing it to the membership of that grou]i. I later took over the com]:)lete 
membership and dues assignment. At that time, I reported the dues 
and the membership to District 7. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say you reported it to district 7, what 
do you mean? How did you report it to district 7? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, I would have to take a total or sum of the 
membership, plus the dues collected, and that is what would be taken 
to district 7. At that time, I carriecl the name of the group, only, and 
each person was given a number, and that is the way it was reported to 
Joe Burnstein of district 7, by numbers of a given group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Each individual member was given a number? 

INIrs. Baldwin. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were a member of the fourteenth con- 
gressional group, were you appointed to any State office of the Com- 
munist Party of the State of Michigan ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, at any time, succeed to the position of 
membership secretary of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I eventually obtained that task, but, before 
that, I had entered what they called the group subdivision of the 
Worker ^ and the Daily Worker. It was put out on a group basis, on a 
rebate to their membership, and, I entered that phase of tlie work. 
Eventually I assisted Joe Ikirnstein, and, from Joe Burnstein to Millie 
Pei-lsteiu.^ Tliat is the position I held in VMV-, and 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a k'tter, a photostatic copy of a letter, 
purportedly written by you, which has already been introduced in 
evidence as Maki Exhibit No. 1, bearing date of October 21, 1947» 
addressed to "Dear Comrade Wayn^e," in which leference is made to 
your new responsiliilities of collecting dues. AVill you examine the 
exhibit, and tell us what that was about, and to whom it was addressed, 
and whether similar letters were mailed to her? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Beginning September, October, 1947, when I 
received this assignment from Helen Allison and Phil Schatz, and 
other leaders of the party, I wrote these notes, or, I should say, these 
lettei-s of notification of the fact that I had assumed this position 
to these people, letting them know Avhere their dues would be paid 
and could be paid. In the case of out-State groups, which just hap- 



' Sunday edition of the Communist Daily Worker. 

2 Millie "Perlstein, known in the Communist Party as Mildred Pierce. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2929 

pened to be the case of many members, data was sent directly to my 
home. 

Mr, Tavenner, To your home address? 

Mrs. Baldwin. To my home address. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was your home address at that time ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. 16272 East State Fair. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why is it the communications were to be directed tO' 
you at your home, rather than some other place ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. They didn't wish them coming to the district t 
office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the reason for that ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, later on, I was told the reason. That was for- 
security reasons. The letters were naturally to contain money, and, 
also, the address of the person sending it. 

Mr. Tavenner. In order to further explain the matter, I will read 
the letter. It says : 

Dear Comrade Wayne : This note is in the form of an introduction. I am: 
Toby Baldwin, and have been assipned the responsibility of collecting dues 
froni out-of-state groups of the Communist Party of Michigan, which post was 
formerly held by Mildred Pierce. Phil Schatz, of the district office, will verify 
this. It is suggested that you mail dues money from the Grand Rapids group, 
to the address above, specifying months and amounts paying for. Names and 
addresses will not be mentioned by this member. Any other questions, such 
as transfers, and so forth, will be taken care of by me, -also. Records from the 
district show no date as to the last payment of dues, so, no doubt, you have 
money on hand which you will wish to send me very soon, since the 1948 regis 
tration is under way ; upon receipt of which I shall immediately send you. 
receipts and stamps to cover same. Should you have any other ideas as to my 
contacting you, please let me know. 

Until then, I am fraternally yours, 

Toby Baldwin, 
Outstate Membership and Dues Secretary. 

Mr. Wood. I wonder if she happens to know to whom that particu- 
lar communication is addressed? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the communication is addressed to, 
"Dear Comrade Wayne." Do you know the last name ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I think it is Salisbury. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was it that you said you succeeded in this 
position ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Mildred Perlstein, who went under the name of 
Pierce in the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. They are the same person? 

Mrs. Baldwin. The same person. 

Mr. Tavenner. One and the same. Did you have any special name 
in tlie Communist Party, other tlian your true name ? 

Mrs. Baldavin. The nickname I had carried practically all my life 
of Toby. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe I called you to the stand as a witness by 
that name. 

Mrs. Baldwin. You did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, you have gone over with the mem- 
bers of the staff a breakdown of the Communist Party in 1948, during 
the time you were state membership secretary. I would like to ask 
you to read into the record, at this point, the Communist I'arty 
breakdown during the first part of 194:8, as you outlined it to us. 



2930 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Baldwin. During the first part of 1948, the party structure 
was on a territorial basis. Later in the year the shop chibs were with- 
drawn from the community sections and they established sections 
within their own rights; namely: (1) Ford section; (2) Automobile 
miscellaneous section. The party structure was as as follows: We 
had a lower East Side section, which was comprised of six groups, 
known as the Downtown Club, the First Congressional Club, the Four- 
teenth Congressional Club, Nat Turner Club, Midtown and Oakland. 
We had a West Side community section, with groups as follows: 
Michigan, Delray, Italian-American, Detrola, Packinghouse, and 
DaveWhite.i 

The West Side industrial section : Diesel, Packinghouse, UE De- 
trola, and UE Vickers. "We had a Lincoln section, but I don't know 
what groups came under that category. It was more or less, of a pro- 
fessional nature. 

North Detroit area, North Detroit section : Hamtramck Club, Ham- 
{ ramck Youth, and Polish- American. Wayne County youth section : 
Wayne University Club, Joe York Club, Herman Boettcher Club. 
That is a section of the youth completely by itself; usually contained 
members going to the university, either Michigan State or Wayne, 
which is in Detroit. 

Northwest section had two groups called the Tom Paine and Ben 
Davis. Professional section : This professional section is the hidden 
section of the party. The names are not known, with the exception of, 
perhaps, a few. It is called the Whitman, the Vesey, the Medical 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name Vesey ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. V-e-s-e-y. John's Group 

Mr. Tavenner. John, did you say John Group ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. John's, J-o-h-n-'-s ; Foster, the Pen & Pencil. That 
is or was comprised of members of the UOPWA. The Sholem Alei- 
chem, which was a Jewish group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it, please ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. S-h-o-l-e-m A-1-e-i-c-h-e-m. The Cauldwell and 
the Dreiser. We had a membership at larg^ section, which, for one 
reason or another, could not be stationed in one group. Now and then, 
we found a seaman in there when he was going from port to port. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain again what the purpose of the 
group was ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. For people who were not stationary, or didn't wish 
to be known. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, persons who were not at one place 
long enough to become positively identified with a particular group 
would be put in that particular cell ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. He wouldn't be able to participate in the ac- 
tivities because of the short term he would be with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of it ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Membership at large. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mrs. Baldwin. We had No. 1 and No. 2. 

Mr. Tavenner. You also stated that persons placed in that group 
were persons whose identity was sought to be kept especially secret? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Some, not all. 



' Named for Communist David McKelvy White, deceased. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2931 

Mr. Tavenner. Some were? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Tlieii, we have 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me follow that a little bit further. I thought, 
for the uiost part, all persons in the Communist Party, except those 
who had been declared to be open members, were to be kept secret? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, how coidd you be, when you were participating 
in activities? 

Mr. Tavenner. So, you mean, it was the purpose to keep the Com- 
iiHinist Party's membershi]) secret even from other Communists? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the point I want to be certain about. 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. We had a miscellaneous section, 
wliicli, I don't know how it was grouped, but it was called the mid- 
land, Hungarian, and we had a farmer group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell in what area of the State that group 
was centered? 

Mis. Baldwin. Well, at that particular time, it would be up around 
New Haven, because, that is where one of our functionaries was situ- 
ated. We had a miscellaneous section of trade unions, seamen, team- 
sters, and Dearborn. 

Auto miscellaneous section : This is the section to which I w^as at- 
tached in the early spring of 1948 as membership and dues secretary. 
It was a newly established section, put up as special concentrated 
points. There were two of them at that time. This one, which 
comprised tlie shop group of the Conmiunist members within Detroit, 
and then, the Ford section, which concentrated on the Ford shops 
in Dearborn. 

lender the auto miscellaneous section, we have a number of groups, 
known as Bohn, or local 2()8; Eddie Elberts, Briggs, Chrysler, or Joe 
Hill ; Hudson, Dodge, Haywood, Murray, which was really Murray 
Body; Midland, which is Midland Steel; Packard, Plymouth, and 
we have a miscellaneous steel ; Timken, local 155, No. 205, which was 
known as the Allen Industries. We had local 835. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me stop you there. What do you mean by 
local 155 and local 835? How was the name derived? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was the name of the local of the trade union 
local. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party cell within 
that particular local bore the same name as the local? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

JNIr. Ta\enner. But, you don't mean to infer that the whole local 
155 was, by any means. Communist? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. They just took the name, because it was their 
trade union local. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mi*s. Baldwin. No. 922. That is also a local ; and, we had GM east, 
which, in reality, took in the Chevrolet transmission. 

We come to our Ford section. That was broken down according to 
departments. It also applies in the same way as the auto shop; be- 
cause they are listed, it doesn't mean that that particular department 
at Ford's is Communist. It is the members of the Communist Party 
within that section. They are. Ford Highland Park, Ford Dearborn. 
LTnder Ford Dearborn are these various departments: Spring and 

97097— 52~pt. 1 15 



2932 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

upset, pressed steel, motor building, plastic, jobbing, open hearth,, 
axle, ABC, and foundry. 

Mr. Tavenner. What does ABC refer to? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that complete the breakdown? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. We have an outside section. This includes 
all of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, then? 

Mrs. Baldwin. It pinpoints the Communists concentrated within 
these towns ; Willow Run-Kaiser-Frazer. That meant within Willow 
Run, there was the Kaiser-Frazer Plant and the Communists within 
it; Pontiac, Flint, Grand Rapids, Jackson, Monroe, Kalamazoo, and 
Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor was very significant, inasmuch as it con- 
tained our Michigan State College people. Within that were three 
groups, called 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean, within the university and within the 
college? 

Mrs. Baldwin. W^ell, they were mostly college students that were 
within Ann Arbor, and, maybe, a few who didn't go to college. The 
majority of them did. 

Mr. Tavenner. The majority of the members was college students?' 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, within the two groups. One was known as 
the A. A. town-youth group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what the initial stands for? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No, I don't. I am sorry. Ralph Neafus- Youth. 

Mr. Wood. Would you spell that ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. R-a-1-p-h N-e-a-f-u-s. Haldane. "Traverse City, St. 
Joe, Benton Harbor. St. Joe is St. Joseph-Benton Harbor. They 
were twin groups. Muskegon, South Haven, Gladwin, Lansing. 
Now, here is another important one. With the exception of one 
person, that group was never known. I had information directly 
from Mildred Perlstein, herself, that this contained teachers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the name of that cell again? 

Mrs. BALD^vIN. Lansing. 

Mr. Potti:r. Mrs. Baldwin, did that contain teachers of the public 
school system or in the colleges ? 

]Mrs. Baldwin. Colleges; in fact, I was told there were two pro- 
fessors in this group. This is hearsay; it was told to me. Ypsilanti. 
We have the Upper Peninsula, with 14 nearby locals. They were 
called Rock, Marquette, Eben Junction, Calumet, Iron Wood Com- 
munity, and Iron Wood Industrial, Escanaba, E-s-c-a-n-a-b-a, Moss — 
I don't believe I am going to pronounce this next one correctly ; I will 
just spell it. 0-n-t-o-n-o-g-a-n. 

Mr. Potter. You are getting close to home when you are in the 
Upper Peninsula. 

Mr. Baldwin. Hancock, Iron River, Iron Mountain, Bruce's 
Crossing, and Baraga. 

Mr. Tavenner. That breakdown of the Communist organization in 
the State of Michigan was correct as of what period ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That would be from 1948, with variations, until 
1950. Many of these groups would fuse together, however, within a 
given section, and, probably, at different points, or probably, at the 
latter part of 1950, when we went underground, they would be broken; 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2933 

up complfeffel^' and lose their distinction, because of going into groups 
of 3 and 5. 

Mr. Potter. Who was the head of the Upper Peninsula Communist 
Party apparatus; who was the contact that you made, or the func- 
tionary ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Matt Savola. 

Mr. Potter. Is he the gentleman from Iron Wood? 

Mi*s. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. To get clearly before the committee your own 
particular assignment following your membership in the Fourteenth 
congressional group, which was the last group that you testified about 
your membership, were you assigned to any particular — that is, any 
other unit of the party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. In the spring of 1948, I was assigned to the 
auto miscellaneous section as membership and dues secretary. Upon 
that assignment, I was transferred from the Fourteenth congressional 
group into the Briggs Group, although I was not within the Briggs 
plant, nor was I a union member. That was a front group. Oscar 
Ehodes was a member in there. Of course, he worked at Briggs. Saul 
Wellman and Carl Winter. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the Communist party going under- 
ground in 1950. What do you mean by that ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, beginning in the spring of 1048, or, even 
prior to that time, in November 1947, when we usually began our reg- 
istration for the year to follow, or, in other words, our 1948 member- 
ship, certain security measures were authorized by district 7. There 
were to be no records kept, no phone calls made, and, if there was a 
phone call made, no names were to be mentioned on that. All lists, 
membership lists, any Communist information about an individual 
member or group as a wdiole was to be destroyed. We even went 
thoroughly into the fact of putting into our section office supplies and 
mimeograph machines, to be used at any time when we could not oper- 
ate in the open. They would be used for leaflets and agitation within 
the shops, perhaps, or a given issue. From then on, it was announced 
by Dr. Jackson ^ in May 1948, that each section, and, particularly, the 
lower East Side section to which I belonged at that time, w^as to be 
broken down into groups of 50, and, each group would function as one 
group, or as one cell. On that point, we went into no registration for 
1949. There were no registration cards issued in 1949, 1950, or 1951. 
for security reasons. 

In Octol)er 1950, I was called to my section organizer's home for a 
special meeting, at which time he toJd me that the party Avas going 
underground, and was establishing an underground ai)paratiis. That 
apparatus would contain a reserve membership, and that I was to be 
one of those reserves; that I should follow the party decision of not 
contacting Communist Party members, or to have anything to do with 
Counnunist Party members. I could not attend meetings, or even be 
seen, or to contact anyone that would be labeled a Communist. I even 
asked him at that point if I could attend the Civil Rights Congress. 
He said, absolutely not, because, I was a member of that organization at 
that time. He said that the decisions handed down should be abided 
by, and, that is what happened from then on. In between that period, 

^ James E. Jackson, member. State committee of the Communist Piirty of MicbiRan. 



2934 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

however, prior to October 1950, there was a meeting called on the East 
Side, immediately following the dissolution of the auto miscellaneous 
section, whit h was in Juh^ 1950. At that meeting, Nat Ganley pre- 
sided. He gave us the same outline as I have mentioned, including that 
members to be registered in the future were going to be on the basis of 
"Do you wish to be a Communist at this time," with a flat "yes" or "no" 
answer. He said that the auto groups within the area of the Four- 
teenth congressional section were to be integrated into the community 
group of the Fourteenth congressional section, which, at that time, 
was a 14 group, to lose their identity ; that the shop groups were to 
hold no more than three members, community groups no more than 
five ; that this would be the last time that this body would hold a meet- 
ing as a whole or even in part. A leader was selected for each one of 
these groups, which was to be the complete nucleus of the cell. In other 
words, the one leader is the one who contacts the other members of 
the party, if there was going to be a meeting of three or four members 
at a home. That leader was to contact persons personally and take up 
their problems. We were to wait for orders from district 7, or some 
leader, before we functioned in any way at all. At that meeting, sev- 
eral leaders Avere chosen, and, I was one of them. I had a cell. I have 
not heard from the leader, or I didn't hear from the leader until July, 
about July 1951, at which time Oscar visited me at home. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you say who visited you ? 

Mrs. Baldwin, Oscar Rhodes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like to understand a little more fully 
about the effect of the new type of organization. As I understand it, 
you were placed among a secret group, to the extent that you were 
not permitted to attend and Communist Party meetings, not attend 
the Civil Rights Congress, because you were to be kept secret. 

Mrs. Baldwin. There is a little error there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was in the fall, the late fall of 1950, that I 
was selected as a reserve. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what I want to understand : What you 
meant bv being chosen as a reserve. I want to understand that clearly. 

Mrs. Baldwin. I stated that it was earlier. He said that the reason 
I was to be chosen was, these particular chosen people would be able 
to take over leadership when the other leaders were arrested or jailed; 

Mr. Tavenner. So that the purpose of the reserve was to protect 
you for future activity and leadership in the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you said your organizer advised you of 
that? 

Mrs. Baldwin. An organizational secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. An organizational secretary? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was his name ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oscar Rhodes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh. I believe you also referred to a Dr. Jackson 
having explained this matter at, probably, a Communist meeting. 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is Dr. Jackson ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Dr. Jackson was a physician, and was the educa- 
tional director of Michigan, our district set-up. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2935 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, it followed, that in July 1950 the grou])s, the 
'Communist Party cells, were broken down into these smaller groups, 
which you defined as being part of the movement to go underground ? 

Mrs.^ Baldwin. Well, approximately, at the dissolution of the auto 
miscellaneous section, which took place in July ; immediately follow- 
ing that, in August, is when the meeting was held or called, wliich 
•contained the shops within different miscellaneous groups on the East 
Side, because that is where the meeting was. It was on the territorial 
basis, or regional basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like to go back, at this point, to the 
beginning of your experience in the Communist Party. You stated 
that the first group 

Mr. Wood. I believe, at this point, we will take a little recess for 10 
minutes. 

<' Whereupon a short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Lret us have order, please. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, I would like to ask you a few more 
questions about the action of the Communist Party and dividing into 
groups of five and three, and going underground, as you called it. 
As I understand it, that was done primarily for the purposes of 
secrecy. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Tliat is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is it not true that the work of espionage, sabo- 
tage, and other activities of a similar character in the Communist 
Party has always been done with an equal secrecy and kept in equal 
secrecy by the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether going under- 
ground witli the small cells of the Connnunist Party, the groups of 
three and five, enables the Communist Party to accomplish its aims 
and to work efficiently, or whether it is a hindrance to the party in 
the work which it seeks to do? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, being an underground apparatus, undercover, 
and in secrecy, it definitely would interfere with their function. 

Mr. Tavenner. This committee from time to time has been given 
some credit for weeding out members of the Communist Party by 
bringing them out into the open. It has also been criticized in some 
instances for driving the party underground. But if your statement 
:is correct, it would seem that it has hindered or at least the party 
going underground has hindered it in the accomplishment of its 
•objectives. 

Mrs. Baldwin. It would have to hinder it. It would definitely have 
to hinder it. By exposing them, exposing the Communists, the sub- 
versive elem.ents of this country, you are educating the public to be- 
<r'ui with supposing the underground cells will beconip active, at least 
partially active; I feel that once they know how a Communist acts, 
what his activities are, they will know him. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question at that point, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. To what extent does a Communist fear exposure, if 
ut all ? 



2936 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, I am olad you added that. They don't fear 
exj)osiii'e as l()ii<r as they ai'e workin<>' in the open. But tliey would 
fear exposure under<j:rouiuh 

Mr. Jackson. If they had b?en up to that time concealed? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. Is the utility of au exposed Communist affected in 
any way? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is uo lonuei' a use. 

Mr, Jackson. He is no longer useful, once exposed? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. That is all. 

Mr. Potter. So by that statement. ]Mrs. Baldwin, we will say in 
Detroit there are many persons who have never been identified as 
members of the party, but once the identity has been made, the Com- 
munist Party has lost a useful worker for them; is that true? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is absolutely true. 

Mr. Potter. So by exposing peoj^le that haven't been exposed, the 
Communist Party has suffered a setback? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is too true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you referred to the fact that there were pro- 
fessional cells, the members of which have always been kept a matter 
of secrecy. What is the importance in the new activity of the Com- 
munist Party of the professional cells as regards their importance 
before this underground movement began ? Do they have any differ- 
ent part to play now than before ? Or is their place of greater im- 
portance now, or how does it figure into the plan of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, just simple logic will tell you that now those 
unidentified and unknown members, even to the Communist Party 
membership, are almighty im])ortant. They have never been known. 
They have never been exposed. 

Mr. Tavenner, Wlien you say "never been known/' do you mean 
uever have been known to other members of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. They have never been exposed to other mem- 
bers of the Communist Party, with the exception of perhaps the 
leadership, Helen Allison and Carl Winter, 

Mr. Tavenner, Now, with regard to that, in our hearings which we 
conducted in Los Angeles, last Se})tember, a witness by the name of 
Mr, Ashe, Avho was an organizer of the Connnuuist Party in Los 
Angeles in 1936, testified on the fight within the Connnuuist Party 
in California as to whether membei's of the professions would be i^er- 
mitted to forui a secret and separate cell from that of other Com- 
muuist members. He testified that it was the orthodox view of the 
Connnuuist Party that there should be no distinction, that they should 
all be meuibers of the usual cells of the party, but Mr. Ashe and his 
frieuds went out with the result that there were cells formed in Los 
Angeles auiong the professions for the purpose of secrecy of its mem- 
bers to keep them secret from other members of the Communist Paity, 
and they were kei)t secret. During our subsequent investigation 
there, we have ])ro(lu('e(l testiuiouy on the existeuce of a cell among 
the doctors, of which about 20 or 25 doctors have been named iu public 
session as members of the cell. We have demonstrated the existence 
of a cell amoug the legal fraternity — at least 5 lawyers have testified 
that they were members until they discovered the true purposes of 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2937 

the Coiiiniiinist Party and aot out. aiul tliey, too, liave named thirty- 
some members of the legal profession in Los Angeles alone who have 
been members of a professional cell, and our work is continuing 
there. 

Mr. Jackson. You might mention, Mr. Counsel, the newspaper 

cell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. We have found the same type of professional 
cell among newspaper people, and 8 or 10 members of that cell have 
been identified, and at least 2 or 3 have testified as to their former 
membership in it. 

Now, I would like to know whether in this area, Detroit, when you 
speak of professional cells, whether you are referring to ])rofessional 
cells within particular professions, such as a cell among the lawyers, 
a cell among the doctors, a cell among newspaper employees or mem- 
bers of the press in any way, or whether you are speaking of a profes- 
sional cell to which all professions, pi'obably teachers, office workers, or 
others join. Can you enlighten the committee on that? 

Mrs. Baldwin. 1 do not have absolute information on that, but 
knowing how the Communist Party works and with the propaganda 
and so forth, I would assume that there would be a group of say medi- 
cal people and a group of lawyer people because of their given work. 
What I mean is, they have definite things to do as lawyers for the Com- 
munist Party. The doctors have definite things to do as doctors in 
the Communist Party. 

Now, probably at this point with the underground apparatus in 
operation, you w^ill probably find contained in that professional group, 
even D. S. R. workers, civil service, and municipal workers. Now, 
whether they made a group together, that I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Potter. The thing that is interesting to me, Mrs. Baldwin, is 
this fact: The Communist Party shows tliat despite their claim of 
democracy, they go out of their way to protect a certain class, a cer- 
tain group of people. They are very conscious of the security of the 
professional units while they are not so careful about the security of 
the members w^ho might be organized in the field of labor or in other 
segments of our society. I am just wondering how consistent that is 
with their claims of being a so-called democratic group. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, professional peo]:)le are more or less — you 
could call them the intelligentsia class. They have a given category. 
The little rank and filer, don't forget, is the guy who goes out and car- 
ries out these ])olicies. He is the one wlio runs on the street Avith the 
leaflets. He is the one who partici]Jates in picket lines, 

Mr. Potter. He is the one who carries their ball. 

Mrs. Baldwin. He is the one who actually carries their policy 
through. 

]\Ir. Jackson, Is that the classless society ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. It is supposed to be. 

Mr. Jackson. It doesn't sound like it to me. 

Mv. Potter. And heaven forbid, come the revolution, the guy who 
is on the picket line would not be the man to assume the [)ower and the 
authority, but the so-called intellectual group or your professional 
groups would be the kingpins in such a society; is not that true? 

Mrs. Baldw^in. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of the membership in any professional 
cell of telephone operators, for instance? 



2938 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. We recruited, I believe in 1948 or 1949, several 
young girls who were just graduated from college and had gone in as 
telephone oi)erators, and there was quite a fuss made at that time that 
the}'^ must be brought in and kept quiet — I mean it should be kept quiet 
that they were in the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhat was the reason for the Communist Party de- 
siring to keep the names of telephone operators especially secret by 
placing them in professional cells? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, for the same reason that they would want to 
keep the lawyers secret, or that they would want to keep the D. S. R. 
secret or anybody that would be involved in getting news out or carry- 
ing through transportation. They would want them in every strategic 
point so that if the time ever came, they would have them there to 
take over. 

Mr. Potter. When it was time to pull the trigger, they would be 
available ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. They would be on the spot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, let us at this point go back to your first con- 
nection or affiliation with section 3 of branch 157 of the Communist 
Party. Where did that group to which you were first assigned hold 
its meetings ? 

Mrs, Baldwin. They held their meetings on the West Side, 5642 
Michigan Avenue, That later became the Ford section headquarters. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you give us the names of the officers such as 
the chairman, secretary, educational director, and any other officers 
whose names you can recall of the first group to which you were 
assigned. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. The chairman at that time was Sue Shower- 
man, S-h-o-w-e-r-m-a-n ; recording secretary, Stephanie Allan, wife 
of Bill Allan 



Mr. Potter. That is the Bill Allan of the 

Mrs. Baldwin. Daily Worker. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to give us the names also of 
other members of that cell. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, there were only 3 or 4. There was Harvey 
Baldwin, who was my husband at that time, myself, the person who 
recruited me, Pete Kowal, Julius Sorbonya, S-o-r-b-o-n-y-a, and two 
members who used to drop in now and then at a meeting. Jack White, 
who later went into the Navy and returned to be an organizer of 
Flint, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. A different person from the Mr. White who is con- 
nected with the local radio station ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Definitely so. 

The Bill Allan of the Daily Worker is not to be confused with a 
Bill Allen who lives in the same neighboi'hood. Bill A-1-l-e-n wants 
this definitely understood. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I think it is very important, in giving this 
information, that you give it as far as you can in a way that the indi- 
vidual you are referring to is being definitely identified so as to save 
confusion of that character. 

Mrs. Baldwin, Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You gave the name of a member of the Communist 
Party who attended the meetings but who was not a member of that 
group. That was Jack White. 



COMMUNISM m THE DETROIT AREA 2939 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you say there were two? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No; just the one, and also a Ray Blossom, 
B-1-o-s-s-o-ni, who came in frequently to do mimeo typing in that 
building, and he did not participate in the meeting but he was present. 

Mr. Tavt:nner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oh, yes; he was a member of the Twelfth Street 
Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what club ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. On the Twelfth Street Club. 

Mr. TA^^5NNER. Then you were transferred as you stated, to the 
Douglas Club? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavennkr. The Fred Douglas Club? Who were its officers? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Jerry Boyd, B-o-y-d, was chairman ; Marion Elder 
Patrick, P-a-t-r-i-c-k 

Mr. Tam^nner. Let me interrupt there a moment. Before asking 
you that, I should have asked you to state the approximate time or 
period that these persons held these offices. 

Mrs. Baldwin. That would be in November 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. If you will proceed. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Marion Patrick dealt with membership and also 
with education ; Martha Schkurman, S-c-h-k-u-r-m-a-n, was literature 
director. I, myself, was the club steward as well as John Sobczak, 
S-o-b-c-z-a-k. I later became the membership director, replacing 
Dorothy Brinich 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you spell the last name, please? 

Mrs. Baldwin. B-r-i-n-i-c-h. Those are all the directors that I recall 
at this time. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Can you recall the names of any other persons who 
were members of that group ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. I have many of them : Jeannie Kudlik, 
K-u-d-1-i-k, Hope Smith 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, let me suggest that if you recall readily any 
activity of the individuals or their employment at the time, you might 
give us that information to help identify the individual, not only by 
name but l)y his or her importance in the party. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, I didn't know them too well at that time. You 
see, being just organized and then leaving it in June, I was not too 
familiar with their type of work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

Mrs. Baldwin. There were many, many others attached to that club, 
as I said before. When we broke it down and went into the various 
territorial sections, we had a membership of around 450. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it would be some duplication to go into that 
now as distinguished from going into it when it was broken down 
into groups at a later time? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; it would be. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Now, you stated that you were transferred into the 
Fourteenth Congressional Club. Who were the officers of that club? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Stanley Adamski, A-d-a-m-s-k-i, became chairman. 
Carl Palmquist, P-a-1-m-q-u-i-s-t, was educational director. ^lartha 



2940 COMMUNISM EST THE DETROIT AREA 

Sclikunnan was literature director. Milton Schleicher, S-c-h-1-e-i- 
c-h-e-r, worked on the press. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean l)v "worked on the press"? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, he wouUl mobilize members of the Fourteenth 
Club to distribute and sell papers throuofhout that neighborhood. 
1 handled it for a while but Milton really orpinized it. 

Then myself as membersliip and dues seci-etary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, who were the officers of the auto miscellaneous 
section, and what date can you place the persons as officers whom you 
are goinn; to name? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, the auto miscellaneous was organized in 1948 
along with the Ford section as special concentration points of the 
auto industry as a decision handed down by a new constitution which 
had ].^een made, I believe, in 1945, but which had not been carried 
through; they became more conscious of the fact that they had to 
get into the plants for special concentration, and that is what those 
two sections were organized for. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Well, now, will you give us the names of the officers 
of the auto miscellaneous section ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Nat (lanley — G-a-n-1-e-y — organizer. He was the 
former business agent of local 155. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that UAW 155 ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oscar Khodes was organizational secretary, who 
worked at Briggs plant. He had come from New York, his home 
town, to help in the auto industry concentration. 

Ml'. Tavenner. In other words, he had been a member of the Com- 
munist Party before coming to Detroit ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oh, he had been a Communist member for years; 
I mean practically all his life. 

]Mr. Tavenner. And was sent here to this area to assist in the Com- 
munist Party work in the automotive industry ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I wouldn't say that he was actually sent here, but 
he wanted to come here as he told me that he participated in the con- 
centration work. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. All right, 

Mrs. Baldwin. We had a finance committee, which was a Avay of 
raising funds for that section, for the party as a whole when they had 
their yearly or semiyearly fund di'ives. That was composed of Paul 
Brooks, chairman ; Eddie Pietrowski, P-i-e-t-r-o-w-s-k-i — and Charles 
Walters, W-a-1-t-e-r-s — Harry Boskey. B-o-s-k-e-y — Malcolm Wright, 
W-r-i-g-h-t — Imogene Brantley Le'Garde, Le'G-a-r-d-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the officers of the clubs which comprised 
the auto miscellaneous section? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is quite a detailed report. We had many clubs 
within that section. 

The ]^ohn Aluminum Club or the Communist members in local 208, 
Fred 

Mr. Tavenner. When vou cfive these numbers, are vou referriiii?' to 
the UAW? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Clubs? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. I am sorrv. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2941 

Fred Williams, chairman ; Doiinie Baron — B-a-r-o-n — who was a 
party member and fairly active, but dropped out in 1949 ; Ruth Pol- 
son — P-o-l-s-o-n — was membership and dues secretary, she was also 
secretary for the Heywood local situated in Schiller Hall, a building 
on Gratiot Avenue; Hilliard Chamblis— C-h-a-m-b-1-i-s — was just a 
member, and the other two are members, too; which I shall name: 
Nick Swetnick — S-w-e-t-n-i-c-k — and Stanley Adamski — A-d-a-m- 
s-k-i. 

We have the Briggs Club, and the point that I wanted to make 
very sure of here, I shall mention it probably again and again, is the 
fact that when I say the "Briggs Club," it means the Communist mem- 
bers within a group, and they have named it the Briggs Club because 
they worked in that factory. 

There is a duplication here, but for complete identity I shall name 
them again : 

Milton Schleicher, chairman; Oscar Rhodes, educational director; 
myself, member-at-large ; Carl Winter; Saul Wellman was attached 
to this club for organizational purposes 

Mr. Tavenner. What was Carl Winter's position at that time ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. He was chairman of district 7, or in other words, 
chairman of the State of Michigan of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was he an employee at Briggs ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No; he was not. This w\as an undercover shop. I 
mean I was not an employee at Briggs, either. Saul Wellman was not 
an employee at Briggs, either. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is it correct that all Communist Party func- 
tionaries had to belong to a club located at some place ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. They did, and they had to pay dues. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Don DeBlois, De B-1-o-i-s, member. 

We had the Dodge Club of Communist members witliin that Dodge 
plant : 

Harry Boskey, chairman ; Sally Davis, membership and dues; Edith 
Van Horn — V-a-n H-o-r-n — educational director ; Kurt Davis, a mem- 
ber ; Paul Henley 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, Paul Henley was a w^itness before 
this committee, and the same is true of Fred Williams who was iden- 
tified by the witness as the chairman of the Bohn Aluminum. 

Mr. Jackson. Did either of them give any testimony ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. I believe if I said "testimony," I should 
correct it. They appeared as a witness. 

Mr. Potter. They were sworn. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you proceed, please. 

Mrs. BALD^VIN. The other two are members only. That is, they 
held no post : Robert Purely, P-u-rd-y ; Paul Endicott, E-n-d-i-c-o-t-t. 

Now- we have the Eddie Elberts Club with Eddie Pietrowski as 
chairman and Sally, his wdf e, as a member. 

G. M. East 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that seems to have been quite a family affair 
at the Eddie Elberts Club. Were there other members? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes; there were two, but they were of a national 
group, never put in an appearance. Their dues were collected by 
Eddie and brought to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Do you know the meaning of the initials 
"G. M." ? Does that stand for General Motors ? 



2942 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. I^Ai.Dwix. (leiieral Motors, and tliis particulai- one, East, hav- 
iii<; tlie "East" in it meant the Chevrolet transmission located on the 
East Side : 

Fred Fische — F-i-s-c-li-e — chairman. Bob Cnmmins 

Mr. Tavkxner. Istliat tlie same as liobert Cinnmins i 

Mrs. llvi.nwix. It is Kobert Cununins. 

Mr. Tavennek. Mr. Chairman, Kobert Cummins is also an nidi- 
vidual who ai)peared as a witness here. 

Mr. Wood. Cnder subpena ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

Mr. Potter. And he refused to answer questions? 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes, sir. 

Mrs. Baldwix. C-u-m-m-i-n-s. 

We have two oroups which were later taken from the auto miscel- 
hmeous section, but I have them so I will list them : we had group 1, 
which comprised seven members: Julius Sobonya, S-o-b-o-n-y-a, as 
chairman; Jake Jacobowitz, J-a-c-o-b-o-w-i-t-z, as membership and 
dues secretary. AVe had a Mr. (xottleib, G-o-t-t-l-e-i-b, as just a mem- 
ber. The other one is a member. Sue Showerman and then three 
others whom I did not know. 

Hey wood No. 2 : 

Hy Fireman, F-i-r-e-m-a-n, as chairman ; Hank Ripken, R-i-p-k-e-n, 
as dues secretary; L. Marksian, JM-a-r-k-s-i-a-n, member, and we had 
a Nerich, N-e-r-i-c-h, a member, \Aw9, three others. 

The Chrysler Club was also known as the Joe Hill Club with Jack 
Pompquist, Jr., as chairman, Clarence Sanders, dues secretary, Leon 
England, later replacing Clarence as duevS secretary, and Van Brook, 
pi'ess Mork; Plarold Wells, a member, 

Hudson 

Mr. Tavexxer. Just a moment. When you stated Van Brook, what 
was the character of his duties ? 

Mrs. Baldavix. On the press ^ 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. Is it the same genei-al character of duties 
that you described a few moments ago foi- another member^ 

Mrs. Baldwix. Yes. That also includes — I should have mentioned 
this: A ])ress director participates in city-wide mobilizations such as 
we had a red Sunday to sell r),()()() papers, and it is up to them to 
organize the clubs and get the jjeople out on the street with the paper. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you recall the first name of Van Brook? 

Mrs. Baldavix. I understand that Van is the given name and Brook 
is the last name. 

The Hudson group of Communists, Sidney — also known as Scotty — 
Barclay, B-a-r-c-1-a-y, chairman; Cliff Bollin, B-o-l-l-i-n. dues; 
Ernie Sorenson, S-o-r-e-n-s-o-n, a member: Shirley Bollin, Cliff 
Bollin's wife, was a member of the Hudson C\\\h although she didn't 
work there and she became my assistant in helping me with the tech- 
nical work for the section. 

Paul Brooks is the chairman of the Murray Club, with a member 
called Roy Maniken, M-a-n-i-k-e-n, and two other whom I did not 
know by last name, called Pete and Tony. 

We have come to the Packard Club; Chris Alston as chairman, 
A-1-s-t-o-n; Felix Maise, M-a-i-s-e; Robert — known as Bob — Brown 
worked on the press; and Sven Falk, F-a-l-k, is a member. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2943 

The West Side Industrial originally was composed of two plants 
and later became consolidated and known as the Timken Club : Henry 
Jansen, J-a-n-s-e-n, as chairman ; Clem Dalton as a member ; and Gus 
Jurist as a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the wife of Gus Jurist? 
Did you have any information as to her connection A'ith the party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Not in this country, I didn't, but his wife was in- 
volved in the espionage charge in Ottawa, Ontario, the first revealing 
of the espionao;e within that locality. 

Plymouth : Charles Lindouf was chairman. He is now in Sweden, 
having left in the latter part of 1949; and John Gustafson, 
G-u-s-t-a-f-s-o-n. 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you spell the name of Charles Lindouf ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. L-i-n-d-o-u-f . 

Mr. Jackson. Did he leave this country of his own free will, or 
was he deported? 

Mrs. BALD^VIN. No, he left it voluntarily, I understand. 

Local 155 Club, and again I repeat this is the Communist Club: 
John Nowak, N-o-w-a-k; William or Bill Chandler, C-h-a-n-d-1-e-r ; 
Walter Christie, C-h-r-i-s-t-i-e, dues secretary. 

Local 205 Club: James Walker, W-a-1-k-e-r, chairman; Imogene 
Williams Brantley Le 'Garde, as dues and membership ; Gurley Walker, 
the wife of Jimmy Walker, a member; Jerry Boyd, Phil Hommer, 
H-o-m-m-e-r. I would like to explain further on this local 205, these 
members were all within the Allen Industries plant 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. What industry ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Allen Industries plant. Mr. James Walker had 
held a post in that local 205, and had been accused, I believe I have this 
correct, as being a Communist and was fired, and we had quite a bit 
of publicity about this. I am sure the reporters will recall it. 

We go to local 835, there is only one person to my knowledge in that 
although there were three others recruited who never put in an appear- 
ance, nor did I receive the dues for them. The one and only member 
is Merrill Work. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is a convenient place, Mr. Chairman, for a 
break. 

Mr. Wood. We stand in recess until 2 : 15. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 45 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 2:15 
p. m., the same day.) 

AFTER RECESS 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order. Are you ready to proceed, counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Mrs. Baldwin, will you tell the committee, 
please, what the maximum strength of the Fred Douglas Club was, 
that is, the maximum membership, if you recall ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. The first part of 1944, in June rather, when we 
broke down on a territorial basis, it was approximately 450 strong. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you say was the strength of the Fourteeii Ji 
Congressional Club? 

Mrs. Baldwin. At that time, we had approximately 20 members, 
and tliat would be paper members given to us. We found various 
members straggled throughout that were given to us from time to 
time. 

97097— 52— pt. 1 16 



2944 COMMUNISM IX THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. Will you please identify for the committee the 
names of those whom you can recall that you met as members, either 
of the Fred Douglas Club or the Fourteenth Congressional Club? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Hope Smith and Harold Smith, her husband. 
Stanley Adamski. Nick Swetnick. Nick Baltic, who was sometime 
in 1945 transferred out of the Fourteenth to Pittsburgh, Pa., where he 
became at that time a leader in the Yugoslav Congress. A. Monicelo- 
vich, he was a member who attended now and then but not too well 
know^n. Daniel Trees, who has a furniture store, was very active in 
the Yugoslav Congress and also belonged to what they called the 
Century Club of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you — no, go ahead and I will come back 
to the question. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Eric Dearnley, who was at one time an officer of the 
Plymouth, local 51. He was then active in the Fourteenth Congres- 
sional Club ; however, upon losing his post through elections of local 
51, he became inactive and some argiunent within the party caused 
him to drop out. 

Fred Gebelle was attached to local 51, Plymouth. He dropped out in 
approximately 1947, or the first' part of 1948. He became inactive. 
I don't believe there are any remarks made by the party. 

Jimmie or James Hampton never attended a meeting of the Four- 
teenth Club. He was fi'om England, but dropped out in 1944 because 
he did not believe in the policies of the Communist Party. 

George Cook, formerly of the Fourteenth Club, transferred in ap- 
proximately 1947, to New York State. He had studied ministry in his 
early days. He would carry the policies through on the connections 
between the Communist Party and what religion stood for. The re- 
lationship between the two. He w^as literature director of the Four- 
teenth Club. 

Melva Cook, his wife, was also active. 

Henry, also known as Swede Jensen, whom I have mentioned before, 
was in the Fourteenth Club and later was transferred to the Timken. 
I understood he worked in the Timken plant. 

Milton Schleicher, whom I have mentioned before, has been very 
very active on the Michigan Herald newspaper, which was the publica- 
tion of the Communist paper here in Detroit. 

James Walker, I have already mentioned, and I believe I have al- 
ready mentioned his activity. 

Euth Poison has already been mentioned. 

Robert Brown, work unknown, has been very active both on press 
work and foot work. By "foot work" I mean the distribution of 
leaflets. 

Don DeBlois I previously mentioned. 

Otis Revis was an immigrant from the near Southern States, who 
came up here and was recruited into the club by Milton Schleicher be- 
cause of having worked at the Briggs plant. He became over-zealous 
in his efforts to further the policies of the party and there was quite 
a disturbance in the Briggs plant, which was well known here in De- 
troit at that time. In his very words, he was "railroaded" out of 
Detroit. 

Helen Palmquist, wife of Carl Palmquist, previously mentioned. 
She did attend meetings, but she was not active otherwise. 



COMMUNISM EST THE DETROIT AREA 2945 

Carl Palmquist I have already identified as being literature direc- 
tor of the 14th, and he has been critically ill. He may be deceased by 
now. 

Jack Palmquist is the son of Helen and Carl Palmquist and while 
a student at Michigan State, became very active in their youth groups. 
I believe in connection with Jack Gore and a few others, they fur- 
nished the youth Communist policies. 

Royce Kennedy is a small-business man, having worked with elec- 
trical appliances, electrical wiring, and so forth. He formerly worked 
at General Motors Chevvie and particij)ated in their ninety-some-odd 
day strike. 

Joseph Schlicht was also a small-business man in concrete work. 

L. Marksian has been mentioned Ijefore. He has not been too active, 
and I do not know at the present where he works. 

Popescu, I believe the first initial is S, is of a national group. I 
have seen him on a couple of occasions and he has become involved with 
the Immigration Department, and I believe is up for deportation. 

Billie Mogill w^as in the Fred Douglas Club at the time I was 
there. However, she was not transferred to the Fourteenth, but went 
to a club established on the west side where she was living at that time. 
She has been active in small community affairs. 

George Mogill, her husband, likewise. 

Joe Brandt — and he is not of the U. E. Joe Brandt, that is to be 
specified here — he left Detroit somewhere in 1945, and at that he was 
operating in Cleveland, Ohio, as a leader of the Communist Party. 
However, on occasions when they would need four or five fortified 
forces to come up here to carry on elections and election campaigns, 
and so forth, he would participate in that. 

Fred Williams has already been mentioned as having been formerly 
business agent of 208. He has a very interesting background. It has 
been told to me by reliable sources, in fact by a Hungarian person 
of the national groups who taught the Hungarians Communist propa- 
ganda, that he has studied in Moscow, and under the trade-union 
policies and went under an alias by the name of Jack Wilson. 

Emma Williams, his wife, has never, to my knowledge, participated 
in any of the active policies. However, she has attended closed meet- 
ings and various affairs. 

Nick Daniels is said — and this is only hearsay — that he also 'be- 
longed to the Yugoslav Congress. He has also become involved with 
the immigration officers and is up for deportation. 

Agnes Grigg, Daniels' wife, went by the name of Grigg in the party 
and strictly forbade the name of Daniels being used. She never has 
been active. 

Phil Hommer belonged to local 205 of the Allen Industries, and in 
later years, that would be immediately following 1945, 1946, secured 
an elevation in his position and at that time had an argument with 
the party. They accused him of going over to management and he 
dropped out. In 1949, 1 was tod by Imogene Brantley, whom I previ- 
ously identified, that he had been pointing out the Communists in 
Allen Industries to management. 

yh\ Tavenner. In the early part of your testimony regarding these 
individuals, you mentioned the name of someone having been a mem- 
ber of the Century Club. Which individual was thatl 

Mrs. Baldwin. Daniel Trees. 



2946 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. What was the Century Club ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Tluit was a club established — I have forgotten the 
exact year — 1945, 1946, or 1947, within that period, whereby people 
would give $100 or more per year to the party. They could either 
pay it in one lump sum or part it in part. Phil Rajanond was the 
chairman of this club and at one of our meetings said that we should 
furnish him the names of anyone having a business within the party 
or anyone who was financially able to contribute to this, to furnish 
the name and he would follow the lead. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the membership in the Century Club kept 
secret from the rank and file members of the party ? 

]\Irs. Baldwin. I never did see it and there was never a report 
made on it. I mean, there was a report perhaps on how much money 
they had received, but no names were mentioned. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, this was the list of "angels" who 
contributed to the support of the party. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, if you wish to call them "angels." 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever learn the number of financial "angels" 
in the Communist Party that were under the supervision of Mr. Ray- 
mond ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No; I never did, with the exception of Daniel 
Trees, who happened to come to district 7 headquarters and knew me 
and he gave me money, telling me what it was for and that it was part 
payment in the Century Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall how much he contributed at that 
time? 

Mrs. Baldwin. At that time, it was $25. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of the period of time 
over which he was a contributor ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. My information, my knowledge ended right 
there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to attend Communist Party 
meetings with members of the Ford section, functionaries or individ- 
uals in the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oh, yes. The Ford section, until they began tight- 
ening the reins in the party, w^ere the closed meetings 

Mr, Tavenner. And you met with some of them and met them 
in those meetings? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I have seen them there, yes, I have entered them 
into the meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you regarding the names of cer- 
tain individuals who were members of the Ford branch of the Com- 
munist Party and, according to our information, ask you whether or 
not they were, and to ask you further to give us sucli additional identi- 
fying information as you have regarding them, particularly as to 
their place in the Communist Party. Are you acquainted 'with a 
person by the name of Eliot Marioniss? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is spelled wrong. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that an improper spelling ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the proper spelling? 

Mrs. Baldwin. M-a-r-a-n-i-s-s. 

Mr. Ta\'enner, Were you acquainted with him? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I was. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2947 

Mr, Ta-\t:nner. Will you state the circumstances? 

Mrs, Baldwin. I was very well acquainted with him when the 
Michigan Herald, a publication of the Communist Party, printed in 
Detroit, began their subscription drive the latter part of 1946. I was 
assigned as secretary of that paper. The building that we occupied 
was at 1310 Broadway. Eliot Maraniss, I understand, worked for the 
Times paper. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean the Times paper? 

Mrs. Baldwin. The Detroit Times newspaper. And he did not 
wish his identity to be known. He gave me and others in there strict 
orders not to call him by his name, either given or last, but to use the 
name "Ace" and he has been very active with that paper [Michigan 
Herald] from the time it was launched until it was dissolved, and is 
now called the Michigan Worker. I have seen liim there as late as 
April or May of 1950. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Mary Morrison? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Mary Morrison Maraniss — Mary Morrison is Eliot 
Maraniss' wife. Prior to her marriage she was an officer of the YCL. 
That would be approximately 1944, 1945. They had an office on 
Broadway near Grand Circus Park. I made it my business to go there. 
I wanted to make a direct connection between the YCL and the CP. 

Mr. Tavenner. By "YCL" you are referring to the Young Com- 
munist League ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I am. At that time, Bridget Poison and Mary 
Morrison were in charge of the office. I purchased a YCL bond from 
them and upon questioning and inquiries they denied any connection 
with the Communist Party. However, within a short period, when I 
was working at the district office, Bridget Poison put in an appearance 
and then embarrassedly tried to explain her situation. She shortly 
thereafter made a trip to Europe, to England, and has not returned, 
to my knowledge. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I am interested in the YCL bond. "Wliat was the 
nature of that transaction ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I believe they were practically broke and that was 
the way of getting some money to carry their work on. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have the bond? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it a good investment? 

Mr. Baldwin. I'm afraid it was a sort of a lost investment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Verne Piazza? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the first name ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. V-e-r-n-e. I believe it was called LaVerne, but I 
may be wrong. Piazza was a dentist belonging to the medical divi- 
sion of the professional section. He is a dentist and he had his offices 
on John R. I have forgotten what cross street, but they were on 
John E. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether Communist Party meetings 
were held in any part of the building which he occupied ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No ; I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Frances Price? Was he 
a member of the party, did he attend meetings ? 



mgs 



2948 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is a woman. She was a Communist member 
because she attended closed meetings. She was put in the XAACJb' 
and when that party dissolved she was later put in the CRC office. 
cue is the Civil Rights Congi-ess. 

Mr. Tavexxek. Did you sit in Communist Party meetings with 
Harold Shapiro? 

Mi's. Baldwin. Yes; I have. He is from the Fur and Leather 
Workers Union. 

Mr. 'J\\VENNER. "Were you acquainted Avith liis wife? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Esther Shapiro. She had an attachment to 
the party, that is, she has organized several affaii's which were not 
called Communist, but which were connected with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she sit in any closed Communist Party meet- 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; she has. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. Do you recall now what other organizations it was 
that she was connected with? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, there was some organization that she was 
trying to organize into one unit, sort of nationally, and I think she 
was also attached to the Civil Rights Congress, Now, that, I cannot be 
sure of, but I know she has been there many, many times. 

]Mr. Tavexner. Have you sat in closed Communist Party meetings 
with Frank Sykes? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. He was at one time — and that would be the 
latter part of '47 and the fii^t part of '48, approximately — he was 
chairman of what they called the lower east side section. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time sit in closed party meetings 
wnth Mrs. Mort Furay ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. She was also a member of the 14th Congres- 
sional Club and went under the name of Corinne Furay. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
BenKocel? 

Mrs. Baldwin. K-o-c-e-1, yes. It is my understanding that he had 
received special training from the Connnunist Party upon his return 
from the Navy, and he has headed the Hamtramck youth group for 
some time. Then he went into just the Hamtramck grouj). He works 
on a newspa]3er.^ 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall anything about his membership in 
any nationality group? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Not other than the Hamtramck or Polish American, 
as it was called. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he in this country now ? 

INIrs. Baldwin. Yes, to my knowledge. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Do you know anything more about his activities in 
the Connnunist Party? 

Mrs. I^aldwin. None other than I have mentioned. He was termed 
as an organizer for the Hamtramck section and he attended organizers' 
council meetings. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you say he worked on a newspaper? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, he works in a newspaper office. 



1 Kocel is aflilintpcl with the bilingual newspaper, Glos Ludowy, and with the firm that 
does its printing, Cliene Printing. Chene Printing was formerly known a.s Unity Press, 
which, according to investigations of the committee, printed a majority of the Communist 
literature published in the Detroit area. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2949 

Ml'. Jackson. At tlie present time? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I couldn't possibly say. 

Mr. Jackson. As of the date of your last knowledge? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Is that in the city of Detroit ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No ; I believe it is in Hamtramck. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Were you acquainted with Alice Kocel? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Alice Kocel was Ben Kocel's wife. He has 
attended closed meetings and I believe she also took a special Commu- 
nist Part}^ school training. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sit in Communist Party meetings with 
Herman Burt ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Auto miscellaneous section council meetings. 
That would be the executive board meeting of the auto miscellaneous 
section. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, the committee has from time to time 
heard evidence relating to the use of "mail drops." Are you acquainted 
with the use of "mail drops" in this area ? 

JNIrs. Baldwin. Yes, in fact, I Avas stationed at one of those "mail 
droits," sort of a secretive all'air. 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you just tell the committee about it, please? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, it was located at 320 East Milwaukee, and had 
been the apartment of Yerna McAllister, who received special training, 
organizational training, that is, from the party and was sent to Cali- 
fornia. This apartment was taken over by Larry Davis. I stationed 
myself there on the average of three nights a week for several hours. 
The dues secretaries of the various clubs on the east side, and sometimes 
the west side, would call there to make their dues payments and 
straighten the membership out with me. 

Mr. Taa^enner. Do you know what has become of Verna ^McAllister ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No ; I have not heard from her or about her. 

Mr. Jackson. Where did she go in California, do you know 2 

Mrs. Baldwin. No; I do not know what part of California she 
went to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Baldwin, the committee has been making a 
study of such information as it has been able to obtain regarding a 
state organizational conferience meeting of the Commimist Party, 
which was held on April 21-22, of 1950, at 2705 Joy Road. Can you 
tell us who the persons were that checked the credentials of those who 
attended that meeting ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. The meeting itself was organized under secu- 
rity measures. By that I mean, if you w^ere not known, you would not 
have gotten in there. Paul Brooks, Oscar Rhodes, and I handled 
the credentials. In other words, we were the registrars. The reason 
that we three were picked was because Paul Brooks knew one section 
of the membership, Oscar Rhodes knew another, and in this case it 
would be Ford Section, and of course, 1 knowing the third portion 
of it, was selected, 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand that during the course of that meet- 
ing, Mr. Max Chait, a former employee of the Ford Motor Co., dis- 
cussed the organizational work within the pressed steel unit ancl dis- 
cussed the success that the workers had in that organization, 
particularly with respect to the support for Communist Party candi- 



2950 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

dates. Do you recall anything being said by Max Chait regarding that 
matter ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Do you mean as to how the workers could be influ- 
enced or had been influenced ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. He gave quite a pep talk on that. He seemed 
quite well satisfied with himself and tlie fact that in the paint shop or 
paint division of the Ford plant, the air conditioning was not appro- 
priate and that the men had become ill. He organized them on com- 
plaints and they won a victory. It spread from one condition to 
another. Now, in order to be able to tell you exactly how he felt about 
that, I will read it just as it is here. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you took notes as to what had occurred ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are reading from an excerpt from your notes? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right, what lie had to say about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. These are notes that you made at the time or imme- 
diately after the meeting ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. During the meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Will you proceed. 

Mrs. Baldwin (reading) : 

This type of action pursued by the Communist forces in other Ford plant units 
has resulted in a victory for the progressives at Ford who now control the execu- 
tive board of Ford Local 600. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what Mr. Chait had to say at that time ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is what he had to say. 

Mr. PoTi^ER. When was this statement made? What was the time 
.of the meeting ? 

Mrs. BxUJ)WiN. That was in April or July — April 21, 22, of 1950. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party had brought 
about that successful action and was boasting about it. 

Mrs. Baldwin. They did boast about it. 

Mr. Tax^enner. Do you recall whether a Marvin Gladstone was a 
speaker on that occasion ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, he was. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What position did he have in the Communist Party 
at that time, Mrs. Baldwin ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. He was chairman of the Washtenaw section which 
takes in Ann Arbor and locales. In other words, it is really the Wash- 
tenaw County. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the subject of his talk? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Not to be accurate, no, I wouldn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of persons who were 
present at that meeting? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I can. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was the State organization conference that the 
Communist Party of the State of Michigan held in April 1950? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us, please, the names of all the per- 
sons of whom you have a record, who were present at that conference ? 
May I ask you, first, whether all of these persons who attended, wheth- 
er their names were cleared with the credential committee of which 
you were a member ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2951 

Mrs. Baldwin. I shall continue on down the list and unless I say 
they were not cleared, it may be assumed that they were. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, in giving the names of these persons, 
if there was anyone whose name was not cleared by the credentials 
committee, you will explain the situation. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. Murray Borad. Mary Bray. Maurice Cook. 
Ray Haskell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, Ray Haskell is one of those who 
appeared on the witness stand a few days ago. Will you proceed, 
Mrs. Baldwin? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Phil Schatz. Nelson Davis. Steve Simmons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me, Mrs. Baldwin, do you know where 
Nelson Davis worked? 

Mrs. Baldwin. At Ford, Dearborn. Dave Moore. Bill McKie. 
Dave Moore also worked at Ford. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us anything about the activities of Bill 
McKie? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. He has been very active in the Ford plant and 
in Dearborn, a known Communist, and called the daddy of the party 
here in Michigan. He is a charter member of the Communist Party. 
Russell Kitto, who worked at Cadillac Motors. Billie and George 
Mogill. Mary Maraniss. Saul Grossman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where w^as Saul Grossman located in his work ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. At that point, I don't know. But he has been an 
officer of the Civil Rights Congress and is the husband of Fay Gingold 
Grossman, secretary of district 7, Communist Party. Jack Raskin, 
who is, I believe, president or chairman of the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us any other information at this time 
regarding his activities in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. As far as the small club activities, I wouldn't know, 
but he did* attend the closed State conferences and functionary meet- 
ings on occasion, but not every one. Jack Zarichney is a youth from 
Lansing, Mich. He became involved there and was accused of Com- 
munist affiliations and I believe he was expelled. I know there was 
quite a bit of publicity about it at the time. 

John Cherveny. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, John Cherveny appeared as a wit- 
ness before this committee. 

Will you proceed, please, Mrs. Baldwin ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. The next person's name, he went by the name of 
"Jessie." However, the real name, I don't know how you would 
•pronounce it. It is in Spanish. It is J-e-s-u-s and the last name 
G-o-n-z-a-l-e-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was he from ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. New Haven, Mich. 

Mr. Taa^nner. In the early part of your testimony, you referred 
to a farmers' club of the Communist Party. 1 asked you what area of 
Michigan the work was centered with regard to the farmers, and you 
stated New Haven, because one of the principal leaders w^as from New 
Haven. Does that have any connection with this man's name ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. He had been attached to the Fourteenth Con- 
gressional Club, and he was recruited, if my memory is correct, by 



2952 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Stanley Adamski, also chairman of the Fourteenth Club, but later 
on they broke out into a branch of their own called the New Haven 
Branch, where they tried to mobilize farmers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he assigned the particular job of organizing 
the farmers ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. He was attached to that club. Stanley Adam- 
ski was really the organizer of the farmers. 

Mr. Potter. Do you have any knowledge as to how successful they 
were in organizing the farmers? 

Mrs. Baldwin. AVell, I guess they got quite a few to a meeting over 
a period of months, but the way it got back to me by Stanley Adamski 
himself is that they raided it and some of them were arrested and 
became involved in trouble with the Mount Clemens police up there, or 
the county police. Subsequently they were left with two members 
that they had originally begun with. 

Mr. Potter. They started with two and ended up with two ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That's right. Leonard Cohen. Lennie Cohen is 
a former Wayne University student. I undei-stand that he has had 
quite a bit of trouble with the Wayne University faculty, distributing 
his propaganda, and having more than a voice in the way things were 
going. He also has been understudying as a scribe or reporter under 
the tutorship of Bill Allan. That has continued for a number of 
years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything of his effort to travel abroad 
to attend the Third World Festival in East Berlin in 1951, and the 
taking up of his passport before he left the country ? 

Mrs. Baldw^in. No. I was underground at that time. 

Zina Brandi Haskell is the wife of Ray Haskell and has been very 
active in the party on various issues and many phases of it. She also 
worked for the Civil Rights Congress, and I understand had her 
finger somewhere in the Progressive Party. 

Marion Young, the wife of Coleman Young, an officer — I don't 
know what you call his post — of the Progressive Party of ]\Iichigan. 
He was very active during the Wallace campaign year. Marion at- 
tended party schools with myself on the history of the Communist 
Party of the Soviet Union, which was taught by Ann Beiswenger. 
She took the first course, which was the first part of the book or touch- 
ing on the first revolution. I do not remember seeing her much after 
that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she attend the conference of 1950 ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. All of these persons you named attended that con- 
ference, as I understand you. 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What about Coleman Young? Did he attend the 
conference and did you list him as one of those who attended ? 

]\Irs. Baldwin. I am sorry, I do not recall his being there at this 
time. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Have you ever attended closed party meetings at 
which Coleman Young was present ? 

IVIrs. Baldwin. Not at closed party meetings, but I attended an 
educational class in 1947 taught by Dr. James E. Jackson, which Cole- 
man attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was this class conducted ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2953 

Mrs. Baldwin. It was conducted here in Detroit at 1310 Broadway. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Was it a class in a school or just a separately organ- 
ized class? 

INIrs, Baldavin". These classes, which began the first part of 1947, 
were educational classes put out preparatory to setting up the Michi- 
gan School of Social Science, which in itself was a school whereby 
they taught courses that were from 8 to 10 weeks in length. 

]Mr. Tavenner. This was a forerunner of it ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the regularly organized school? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did persons attend those schools who were not 
members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Oh, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did one arrange to attend classes of that kind ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was reported to us in our individual club meet- 
ings, that such and such a class would be given and we were asked to 
attend for Marxist education, and that was the beginning of the 
stress and concentration on Marxist-Lenin education. 

Mr. Taa'enner. Coleman Young attended one of the classes which 
you attended ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, he did. I might add further that Coleman was 
a regular visitor to district 7 office during the time that I was secretary 
there. It seemed that he had various problems that came up in the 
Progressive Party that he would want to take up with the leaders 
of the Communist Party. He held many meetings there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Many meetings in the headquarters of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. With Carl Winter and Saul Wellman. 

Mr. Taa-e'nner. Can you give us any other information regarding 
Coleman Young? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Not that I recall at this time, I couldn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is a convenient place for a 
break. 

Mr. Wood. We will take a recess for 15 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

AFTER RECESS 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please. Are you ready to proceed, 
Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to ask you, Mrs. Baldwin, regarding the names of 
several other persons whom you may have had opportunity to see 
at Communist Party meetings. I believe, all the persons whose names 
I am going to ask you about were members of the Communist Party 
cells within the Ford plants. I understand you had several opportu- 
nities for sitting in Communist Party meetings with persons from 
cells within the Ford plant; meetings, suc.li as conferences, and meet- 
ing where representatives attended, rather than the cell meetings 
themselves, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an opportunity, at any time, to sit in 
a Communist Party meeting, or to otherwise be able to identify as a 
member of the Communist Party, Leo T. Orsage ? 



2954 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. I personally entered his application into the 
party. As to his activities, I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ed Lock? 

Mrs. Baldavin. Yes. He was in many closed Communist sessions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which you have attended? 

INIrs. Baldwin. Which I have attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Archie Acciacca, A-c-c-i-a-c-c-a, I believe it is spelled ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Acciacca is known to me in name only. That name 
has been handed down on my lists from the Frederick Douglas, trans- 
ferred from the fourteenth to the fourth section. He is unknown to 
me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Although he is unknown to you, personally, yet, in 
the performance of your official duties as a functionary of the party, 
you were required to. deal with his name ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I was required to deal with his name. I was required 
to issue him cards. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dave Moore. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Dave Moore ; at various times he was very active in 
party State conferences and other closed meetings, and I have many 
times had opportunity for his association. 

Mr. Tavenner. Paul Boatin? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Paul Boatin is very well known about, and has been 
very active, and has also handed in reports on the fourth section at 
closed Communist meetings, conferences, and so forth, at which I had 
attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. John Gallo? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Likewise, is John Gallo. 

Mr. Tavenner. Nelson Davis? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Nelson Davis has been in the party, well, I remember 
liim from 1943. He has the one reputation of behig the sub-getter. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean, "sub-getter?" 

Mrs. Baldwin. He always, most always, led in getting subscriptions 
to the Commimist Party, 'the Worker, the Daily Worker, the Michi- 
gan Herald, the Michigan Worker, and the Daily Worker, of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. Harold Franklin? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Harold Franklin is a worker at Ford's and attended 
party school, or classes, I should say, taught by Hy Gordon, a person 
sent here from the national office for educational purposes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean, Hy Gordon was sent for that purpose? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. Hy Gordon was sent to Detroit, to 
the Detroit area from the National Communist Party office, on a na- 
tional tour in 1947, the first part of it. He taught this class, which 
lasted one whole Sunday. I believe it began early in the morning. 
Harold Franklin attended that class, as well as his wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know him by any nickname ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No, I don't. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. That is, Harold Franklin : do you know him by any 
nickname ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of this Hy Gordon, a functionary from 
the city of New York, conducting an educational class. Wliat was the 
general nature of the class which he conducted ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2955 

Mrs. Baldwin. It was a literature forum, where he went into full 
detail about literature, and the type of literature to print and to pur- 
chase.  He went from there into the financial aspect of literature. 

Mr. Tavenner. In speaking of the literature which he recom- 
mended, what type of literature are you speaking of ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. He was speaking more on the subject of writers, and 
how, if they were reactionaries, you could sell their books, and, through 
these books, you could spread propaganda, if the book, in itself, con- 
tained enough romantic material to gain the attention of the people^ 
that they would read the book. He also brought out the segregation 
of the IS egroes in this book that one of the writers, well, I have for- 
gotten which — which was uppermost in my mind at that time. One 
writer had written a book denouncing the Negro race, and, a few years 
later, discovered he had Negro blood, and, Hy Gordon brought out 
very clearly the slip ; that had people known he had been a Negro at 
that time, they would not have purchased his book, regardless of the 
subject matter. 

Mr. Tavenner. In this course that he gave, in which he emphasized 
literature that was to be read, was it Communist Party literature to 
which he was referring ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, my interpretation of it was, that if you could 
write a book that was romantic enough, and could gain the attention 
of the people to be a best seller, that would be a wonderful way of 
spreading propaganda. 

Mr. Tavenner. For Communist propaganda? 

Mrs. Baldwin. For Communist propaganda. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say, Harold Franklin was one of those who 
attended this class being conducted by Hy Gordon. Can you give us 
the names of others who attended ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. His wife, known to me as Mary Mclntyre. I had 
dealings with her on CP dues and membership data while she was 
living in Ann Arbor. Carneller Foreman, who is known to practically 
every member in the party; a member of the Nat Turner group, 
attended. Peggy Wellman, the wife of Saul Wellman, the national 
labor coordinator, sent here from the national office of the Communist 
Party. Frank Martin, of the Nat Turner group and Aldo Sandretto, 
of first congressional group ; Maurice Cook, Midtown group ; Mildred 
Pollock, formerly of local 155, who was transferred out of the party 
to State unknown in 1947. Hope Smith, an officer of the fourteenth 
congressional group ; Fred Jones, a member of the Nat Turner group ; 
and Esther Siegel, of the Midtown group; and Leonard Lauderdale. 
He was from out of town, and would come down here to attend meet- 
ings. I don't know what group he was attached to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any business association between 
Esther Siegel and Leonard Lauderdale, or Leonard Cohen, I am not 
sure which ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Cohen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Leonard Cohen, 

Mrs. Baldwin. Leonard Cohen and Esther Siegel set up a memo- 
typing station, whereby they would memotype leaflets or other mate- 
rial needed and requested by the various groups throughout the city 
for nominal sums. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you continue, please? 



BOSTON PUBLIU LIbHAM 





'^ lMiiiiiiiiiniiniiiniiiinn„N,i^,..M.Mn.^.-.. rpjjj, DETROIT AREA 

3 9999 05445 4564 

iVirs. 13AL.DWIN. Ann Boatin, the wife of Paul Boat in, was active in 
the party, to my knowledge, since 1944. Mary Page Keed Davis has 
been active in the party for many years, and, at one time, had a tech- 
nical station set-up, in which she and Mary Bray were partners, to do 
progressive work, and they did not conform strictly to Communist 
Party literature, material and leaflets, and so forth, and they were 
just a little broader in that respect. She is now a secretary to Ford 
local 000. Walter Dorosh has been very active in the Communist press 
work, and is also a worker at Ford Motor, and belongs to the Com- 
munist group within tliat section. Tersil T. Obriot. Tersil, I sliould 
say, has practically knocked himself out on press Avork here, AVher- 
ever there has been a paper to sell and leaflet to distribute, he was 
always there. He belonged to Ford Motor, and is Communist member 
leader of that section. He is very active. Kenneth Roach is also a 
Ford worker, and has been a Ford worker, and, I believe, is attached 
to some local now. My memory recalls he is in the publicity section 
of it. He was very active from 1946, 1947, through that period, on 
press work. I A^orked with him directly. We Avould meet at what 
later became known as the Ford section headquarters, 5(342 Michigan. 
Celia Edwards is the wife of Byron Edwards, who has also been 
known to work at Ford's. Whether he is working there now, I don't 
know. She attended a class with me at the School of Social Science, 
at which Oscar Rhodes instructed on the science of society. That was 
held in 1948. Art McPhaul ; I think he is known to practically every 
Ford member in the Dearborn section. He is well known to them, 
and, lam sure, he is well known to the Ford division in that center. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he occupied any position in 
the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mrs. Baldavin. Yes. I belieA^e he is chairman of the Civil Rights 
Congress at present. 

Mr. Tavenner. He has appeared, also, on the witness stand, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Dave Mates, that is, Imown to me as Dave Mates, 
having heard his name in party circles, belonging to the UE local, 
and, I was told from reliable sources, he and his Avife, Lydia Mates, 
at one time were chairmen of the Indiana Communist Party. Harold 
Robertson, Ford Motor, also Communist Party section. He Avas very, 
very active, having at one time held the position of dues secretary for 
a given group. He reported to me. Leo Cottrell has been lost in the 
last few years, but, prior to that time, he was very active in the party ; 
usually attended all party meetings. Olga Zenchuck belonged, and is 
attached to the packinghouse local. She has been A^ery, very active 
witliin that local. She has attended closed meetings. She has had 
problems AA'hich she has taken up Avith district 7 leadership on many 
occasions, and is, at present, I believe, in the local. Kathryn Lynch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hoav is the first — Avhat is the first letter of the name 
Kathryn ; is it K or C ? 

Mrs. Baldavin. K ; Kathryn Lynch. She was attached to the Fred- 
erick Douglas group. When the breakdoAvn came, she disappeared— 
Avliat I mean, she disappeared, slie left the city. She is a former 
Detroit Free Press reporter. She left Detroit in 1944, and it is be- 
lieved, but not confirmed, that she is a reporter for the publication 
Tass in Wasliington, D. C. Hodges Mason is a well-knoAvn figure. 



COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 2957 

He is a real rank and filer. You could probably find him in almost 
any picket strike session. He is quiet and orderly, but he is there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, all of these persons whose names you have 
given, are persons who attended the class of Hy Gordon, the Commu- 
nist functionary who came here from New York to conduct this class ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this class- conducted by Hy Gordon restricted 
to members of the Communist Party, INIrs. Baldwin ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Everyone here was there. We had a registrar, and, 
how I happened to be so familiar with the names, I was the registrar. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of Nelson Davis being a subgetter, and 
having been very successful at it. Did he, at any time, win a prize 
for his work in obtaining subscriptions or recruiting, and was given 
a free trip to New York, with all his expenses paid ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. He certainly did, and, he came back and told us all 
about the trip. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on 
February 11, 1951, in connection with your assignment^ 

Mrs. Baldwin. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you on February 12? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I was not. That is the day I took the stand at 
Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 meant, 1952, instead of 1951. 

Mrs. Baldwin. I thought you did. 

Mr, Tavenner. Since February 12, 1952, your sources of informa- 
tion have dried up, is that not true? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Slightly. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Slightly. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, in view of the fact that the committee has 
already determined, as has been previously stated, to seek authority 
to return here at some later date and finish the hearing that we have 
undertaken, I don't feel that we should stay here longer than today, 
and I am going to adjourn the committee, subject to call. Before I do, 
I will be glad to have any remarks from Mr. Jackson and Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Jackson. I have a request, Mr. Chairman. In order that I 
not introduce extraneous or hearsay matter, I should like to request 
that my remarks concerning Mr. Cherveny be stricken from the record 
wherever they appear. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Baldwin, I should like to express my thanks, 
as a member of tlie committee, to you for your appearance and for 
your testimony. You have shared a very difficult experience with a 
number of others who, on behalf of their country, followed a course 
of action which brought them, for a period of time, into the ranks 
of the Communist Party. In many instances, following that course 
of action shut them off from their friends and associates during the 
period they were in the party. The American people have no way 
of expressing directly to you their thanks. You will receive abuse and 
vilification from those who are a part and parcel of an international 
conspiracy. I should like to say, as one representative of the Amer- 
ican people, that I feel you have rendered a tremendous service to 
hmnan freedom and to our country. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, any remarks? 



2958 COMMUNISM IN THE DETROIT AREA 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Chairman, there has been a request that further 
identification be made on a Mr. Hugo Beiswenger, Sr., a fellow who 
was mentioned in the testimony of Mr. Salisbury on Wednesday, The 
records of the committee disclose that in 1944, Hugro Beiswenger 
was issued party card No. 48273 of the Jackson branch of the Com- 
munist Party, Jackson, Mich. I hope that will be a further identi- 
fication of Mr. Beiswenjxer. 

I, too, Mr. Chairman, wish to comment on not only the appearance 
of Mrs. Baldwin here, but to let her know of the respect in which she 
is held by tlie American people for taking the task that was assigned 
her in the first instance; that of infiltrating a party, w^hich has caused 
you, at times, to sever yourself from your friends and neighbors, and 
denied you the normal living which others of us. have enjoyed. You 
know, men in combat receive decorations for gallant service. I can 
think of no person who is more worthy of a decoration for gallantry 
than you, Mrs. Baldwin. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Baldwin, I join in the words that have been 
spoken bj^ my colleagues with reference to your appearance here, and 
of your service to your country and to the cause of democratic govern- 
ment everywhere throughout the world, I would like to remind j'^ou 
that you are still under subpena of this committee, and, upon its return 
here, you will be called upon to conclude your testimony by giving such 
additional information as you may be in possession of. It is regretted 
very deeply by me, as chairman of the committee, and the subcom- 
mittee, that we are not able to complete it now. You will be notified 
of the time, tentatively the 10th of March, 

In adjourning these hearings subject to call, I wish to take this 
opportunity to thank those individuals and agencies of Detroit who 
have so generously cooperated with the committee. AVe are particu- 
larly grateful to the chief justice of the district court, the Honorable 
Arthur F. Lederle, and associate justices for the use of their facilities, 
and the Michigan State Police for their uniform assistance to the com- 
mittee staff and to the committee itself ; and to the Detroit Police Force 
for their technical assistance to the staff, as well as their cooperation 
with the committee during our stay here ; and to the office of the United 
States marshal for effecting service of our subpenas, and their assist- 
ance during the healings: and the Detroit Loyalty Board and their 
personnel, and the su])erintendent of the building, along with all othere 
too numerous to mention. In extending these thanks, I wish to compli- 
ment the work of the press and radio that have covered these hearings. 
Their cooperation with the committee, their full and factual coverage 
of these proceedings, is deeply appreciated by the committee, and, I am 
sure, by the Michigan public. Last, to the host of Detroit citizens, 
who have evidenced such widespread interest in the work of the com- 
mittee, and who have contributed so warmly and generously to the 
pleasure of our stay here. 

With those remarks, the committee will stand in recess, subject to 
call, 

(Whereupon the committee was recessed at 4: 30 p. m., sine die.) 



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FtB 6 1957