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Full text of "Communist activities in the Buffalo, N.Y., area. Hearings"

HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



us Doc 2.791 



Committee on Uof-Afflerlcaa activities 
HotLse 
88th CoBgresB 



COHTEHTS 



1. Comnninist eustivities in the Buff€LLo, N,Y», %^^ 
area 

2. Comsniziist activities in the Minneapolis, Minn., 

area ^c^/ 5 

3. Defection of a Bossian seaman (Testimony of 
Vladislaw Stepanovich Tarasov) ,. > y 

4. Hearings relating to H.R.352, H.E.1617, H.H.5368, 
H.E.8320, H.E.8757, H.R.10036. H-R.10037, ^- 
H.R.10077, and H.R.11718, providing for ^^^^ 
creation of a Freedom Commission and Freedom 
Academy Part 1 

5. H w M N N Part 2 

6. U.S. Communist Party assistance to foreign 'Hc^^ 
Commonist governments (Testimony of Maud 

Bass ell) 






COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

HARVARD COLLZGc Li3?'..;y ~"^ ' 

DEPOSITED By THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMcNT 

OEC 28 1964 

HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGKESS 

SECOND SESSION 



APRIL 29 AND 30, 1964 
INCLUDING INDEX 



Printed for the use of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities 




U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

3fr-414 WASHINGTON : 1964 



For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office 
Washington, D.C., 20402 - Price 40 cents 



-^^-^ 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Repre8entati\^s 
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana, Chairman 
WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan 

JOE R. POOL, Texas DONALD C. BRUCE, Indiana 

RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri HENRY C. SCHADEBERG, Wisconsin 

GEORGE F. SENNER, Jr., Arizona JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio 

Francis J. McNamara, Director 
Prank S. Tavennbr, Jr., General Counsel 
Alfred M. Nittlb, Counsel 
William Hitz, Counsel 

n 



CONTENTS 



Pag« 

Synopsis 1517 

April 29, 1964: Testimony of— 

Andrew J. Berecz 1531 

Afternoon session: 

Andrew J. Berecz (resumed) 1554 

Paul Sporn 1563 

Joseph C. Scioli... 1602 

Edward A. Wolkenstein 1605 

Evening session: 

Seymour Rudner 1610 

Helen Schwartz 1614 

Walter J. Zvaleko 1621 

Tobias L. Schwartz 1627 

April 30, 1964: Testimony of— 

Gertrude Alexander 1630 

Richard H. Alexander 1635 

Gloria Massa 1637 

Max Berman 1641 

Miroslaw B. Zelman 1643 

Joseph Pranis 1647 

Emanuel Fried t650 

Tobias L. Schwartz (resumed) 1654 

Richard H. Alexander (resumed) 1661 

Index i 

in 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946] ; 60 Stat. 
812, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

RXJLE X 
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWEES AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is autliorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of govermnent as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces- 
sary remedial legislation. 

ITie Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee ; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports 
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of 
the Government. 

IV 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 88TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 9, 1963 

• **«**• 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
*•***♦♦ 

(r) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members, 

Rule XI 

POWEKS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

18. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any i>erson 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

******* 

27. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 



SYNOPSIS 

On April 29 and 30, 1964, a subcommittee of the Committee on Un- 
American Activities held public hearings in Buffalo, N.Y., in com- 
pliance with a resolution adopted by the full committee on March 
4 of the same year. The hearings concerned the structure, organiza- 
tion, strategy, tactics, and major objectives of the Commimist Party 
and other Communist organizations in the Buffalo area. Their purpose 
was to assist the committee and the Congress in considering legislation 
designed to protect the national security. 

Members of the subcommittee present for the Buffalo hearings in- 
cluded Eepresentatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas; August E. Johansen, of 
Michigan ; Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri ; and John M. Ashbrook, of 
Ohio. 

Mr. Pool, acting as chairman in the absence of Mr. Willis, pointed 
out that the committee had held hearings in Buffalo in 1957, but that 
significant changes in Communist Party organization and activities 
had taken place since that time and committee investigation revealed 
that two new Communist organizations, the Workers World Party and 
the Progressive Labor Movement, had come into being in the Buffalo 
area since 1957. 

The Workers World group, he said, had been founded by former 
members of the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) in Buffalo who had 
left the SWP in February 1959 because they believed the old-line Trot- 
skyist organization was not sufficiently revolutionary in its outlook. 

The Progressive Labor Movement had grown out of a faction within 
the orthodox Communist Party which, defying the main party's posi- 
tion, sided with Peking in the dispute between the Chinese Communists 
and Moscow. Its members also disagreed with the policy adopted by 
the National Committee of the CPUSA on the action to be taken follow- 
ing the Supreme Court decision of 1961 upholding the registration 
provisions of the Internal Security Act. This policy was to reduce 
the national leadership of the Communist Party to three and ignore 
the registration order. 

The dissident faction wanted to dissolve the Communist Party and 
re-form it under a new name. They felt this would obviate the need 
for the party to register under the Internal Security Act of 1950. 

Expelled from the Communist Party in 1961 for refusing to toe its 
line, Mortimer Scheer, a leader of the faction, and his supporters 
organized in Buffalo the nucleus of a new Communist group, the Pro- 
gressive Labor Movement, which now has its headquarters in New 
York City. 

The first witness was Mr. Andrew Berecz, who had served as an 
undercover operative for the Federal Bureau of Investigation from 
1942 until 1962, reporting on Coimnunist activities in the Buffalo area. 

In compliance with Rule XI, sec. 26 (m) of the House, Mr. Berecz' 
testimony had first been taken in executive session, and all persons 

1517 



1518 COMMUlSriST ACTIYITIES en the BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

identified by him as Communists whose present addresses could be 
determined had been so notified. They had also been informed that, 
if they so desired, they could appear before the committee in execu- 
tive session prior to the holding of the public hearings and that the 
committee would then not only receive their testimony but would also 
consider any requests made by them to subpena additional witnesses 
in their behalf. None of the witnesses summoned for the Buffalo 
hearings, and none of the other persons in the area identified as Com- 
munists by Mr. Berecz, took advantage of this opportunity. 

Mr. Berecz was born in Hungary on February 28, 1914, immigrated 
to the United States in 1929, settled in the Buffalo area, and became a 
naturalized citizen in 1936. 

Because of the insurance benefits offered by it, Mr. Berecz joined the 
International Workers Order (TWO) in late 1936 or early 1937. He 
testified that the organization operated under the title "International 
Workers Order Center" in the Buffalo area and was divided into five 
nationality groups. He was elected financial secretary of the Hun- 
garian Section in 1939 and held that position until the IWO was dis- 
solved by the State of New York in 1953. For a few years in the late 
1930's and early 1940's Mr. Berecz was also chairman of the entire 
IWO Center. It was during this period that he first discovered that 
the organization made financial contributions to the Communist Party. 

It was in 1942, Mr. Berecz recalled, that a committee at the IWO 
Center decided to contribute $300 to each of the nationality papers 
and $300 to the Daily Worker. The donation to the party paper was 
obtained by Frank Herron, and Mr. Berecz testified he had partici- 
pated in its authorization, but stated that he was not aware at that 
time of the true nature of the publication. 

Within a month after the donation was made to the Daily Worker, 
Svea Katz and Leonard Costa appeared at the Center and "did not 
ask" but "demanded" $600 on behalf of the Communist Party. The 
committee voted to give them the money, but Mr. Berecz, as chairman 
of the club, refused to sign the check. A general membership meeting 
was called at which Mr. Berecz announced that he never was, and 
would never become, a Communist. For this he was removed as 
chairman of the club. He was, however, permitted to retain his posi- 
tion as financial secretary of the Hungarian Section. 

The following day Mr. Berecz received a visit from three FBI 
agents. He agreed to report to them on Communist activities at the 
Center, and later to join the party if the opportunity developed and 
report on its activities in the Buffalo area. 

This was the beginning of an assignment in the service of our Nation 
which was to last for 20 years. 

From 1942 until 1946 he reported to the Bureau on Communist 
activities at the Center. In 1946 he was able to increase the scope of 
his infoi-mation when he accepted an invitation from Sam Coleman, a 
Communist Party organizer, and John Touralchuk to join the party. 

At that time, Mr. Berecz was employed at the bonding plant of the 
American Radiator and Standard Sanitary Corporation. The party 
assigned him to its industrial club at that plant. 

Mr. Berecz identified at least six members of the Communist Party 
who were assigned to this club before its dissolution in the 1950's when 
the party instituted new security measures. Under these measures 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1519 

the party organized community clubs with a membership of not less 
than four, nor more than eight. Mr. Berecz was then assigned to the 
Tonawanda Club. His last assigmnent in the Communist Party was 
in a nationality club which, the witness testified, was organized by the 
Erie County branch of the party in late 1961 to create a nationality 
culture and background group in order to gain new members. 

The Conunmiist Party's effort to colonize Buffalo industry became 
apparent to Mr. Berecz shortly after 1950, when many party members 
from New York City moved into the Buffalo area. He testified that 
the colonizers were well-educated individuals, capable of assuming 
much better positions than the "hard labor" jobs they sought in the 
steel mills and shops. One of the colonizers to invade the Buffalo 
area at that time was Mortimer Scheer. Mr. Berecz also identified as 
Communist Party colonizers in the Buffalo area: Sy Rudner, Alex- 
ander Salmin, Sid Ingerman, Edward Wolkenstein, Marty Zelman, 
Milton Rosen, Walter Zvaleko, and Paul Sporn. 

Organizers for the Communist Party known to the witness during 
his membership in the party included Norman Ross, Sam Coleman, 
Johnny Noto, Russell DePasquale, Joseph Green, Milton Rosen, and 
Mortimer Scheer. 

Mr. Berecz testified that manipulation and exploitation of American 
youth have been a major effort of the Communist Party. In the recent 
past Mortimer Scheer and another Buffalo party leader, Anthony 
Massa, were assigned to handle youth work in the Buffalo area, and 
party members were encouraged to penetrate non-Communist youth 
organizations, seeking carefully but gradually to indoctrinate the 
young people with Marxist-Leninist ideas. 

Other targets of the Communist Party include "different organiza- 
tions like the peace movement, fair housing, racial matters; they 
tried to get into all these organizations. They claimed to help, but 
their idea was to get in there and then advocate communistic ideas," 
Mr. Berecz stated. 

He testified that a committee on nuclear testing handled Commu- 
nist Party activity in that field. Gertrude and Richard Alexander 
and Ann and Abe Copperman were assigned to this committee and 
were engaged in passing out leaflets demanding an end to nuclear test- 
ing at the very time Russia exploded a 50-megaton bomb. Disturbed by 
this action, they asked Anthony Massa for an explanation. He in- 
formed them that the answer would have to come from the party's New 
York headquarters. Some weeks later, Mr. Massa informed the Buf- 
falo Communists that "Khrushchev said that the free nations were 
against him and that they were doing it in secret and that is why he 
had to test the 50-megaton bomb." 

Gertrude Alexander was also assigned to work in the Women 
Strike for Peace and the Women's International League for Peace 
and Freedom. Other party members asigned to work in these organi- 
zations included Bea Berman, Rose Touralchuk, Mrs. Dorothy Zel- 
man, and the senior Mrs. Zelman (Mrs. Maria Zelman), according 
to Mr. Berecz. 

On June 6, 1961, the Supreme Court upheld the order of the Sub- 
versive Activities Control Board which had found the Communist 
Party of the United States to be a "Communist-action organization" 



1520 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

within the meaning of the Internal Security Act of 1950 and had there- 
fore ordered it to register as such with tlie Attorney General. 

The CPUSA refused to register. Its national committee decided 
to reduce the national party leadership to three individuals and simply 
ignore the registration order. 

Mortimer Scheer and others who wanted a more militant and aggres- 
sive Communist Party opposed this course of action. They proposed 
instead to dissolve the CPUSA and reorganize it under a newname. 
They felt that, if this were done, the party would not be required to 
register under the Internal Security Act of 1950. 

In October 1961 a meeting was held in the home of John McKenzie 
to resolve the issue. Mr. Berecz, who was present at the meeting, 
testified that it was attended by Ben Davis and Lou Weinstock, Com- 
munist Party officials from New York City, and by Paul Sporn, 
Gloria and Anthony Massa, Gertrude and Richard Alexander, Ed- 
ward Wolkenstein, Walter and Vera Zvaleko, Marty and Dorothy 
Zelman, Bea and Max Berman, Sy Rudner, Hattie Lumpkin, and 
Mortimer Scheer of the Erie County branch of the party. 

A resolution from Communist Party headquarters in New York 
was presented to the meeting by Ben Davis. It called for Mortimer 
Scheer, Edward Wolkenstein, and Walter Zvaleko to "get in line with 
the national committee's policy" or face expulsion. 

The trio refused to obey the ultimatum and were immediately ex- 
pelled from the party by Ben Davis. Mr. Berecz testified that Davis 
also "invited" certain members from the Buffalo area who spoke in 
defense of Mortimer Scheer to "go with" Scheer. 

A four-member secretariat was then appointed by Ben Davis to 
run the party in the Buffalo area. Hattie Lumpkin refused the ap- 
pointment, leaving Tony Massa, Marty Zelman, and Sy Rudner to 
head the Erie County Communist Party. In July 1962 Tony Massa, 
having been accused of being "antagonistic" toward some of the mem- 
bers, was removed from the secretariat by William Patterson. 

Mr. Berecz also testified briefly about a Communist Party meet- 
ing, held in November 1961 in the home of Everett Jones, at which 
Louis Weinstock presented a resume of the party's position on the 
registration issue. He announced that the CPUSA would be under 
the leadership of Gus Hall, Ben Davis, and Elizabeth Flynn. 

In addition to Mr. Berecz, who supplied the committee with much 
valuable information, 14 other persons were called as witnesses. Com- 
munist Party activity on the part of each of these witnesses had 
been the subject of public and/or executive testimony by Mr. Berecz. 

Paul Sporn, the second witness to be heard is an instructor at the 
State University of New York at Buffalo. 

He was identified by Mr. Berecz as having been a Communist Party 
colonizer and, more recently, the education and literature director of 
the Erie County branch of the party. At the Communist Party 
meeting in October 1961, Mr. Berecz recalled, Paul Sporn spoke 
out in defense of Mortimer Scheer, who was facing expulsion from the 
party. Mr. Ben Davis then "invited" Mr. Sporn and others who sup- 
ported the Buffalo leader to leave the Communist Party. 

Appearing under oath, Mr. Sporn acknowledged that he had 
graduated cum laude from New York University in 1951 and for a 
short time thereafter had been employed by the Eighth Street Book 
Sliop in New York City. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1521 

The witness was confronted with copies of applications for em- 
ployment submitted by him to four Buffalo industries, dating from 
1953 through 1955. In each instance, Mr. Sporn had sought positions 
in a laboring capacity. Admitting to only a high school education, 
he had concealed the fact that he was a college graduate. 

Mr. Sporn acknowledged having executed the applications and 
having worked for the firms in the capacities indicated. When asked 
if, in his application to the Twin Coach Company, he had signed the 
statement, "I am not a member of the Communist Party or any orga- 
nization recommending the overthrow of the United States Govern- 
ment," Mr. Sporn invoked the fifth amendment and other reasons in 
refusing to answer. He also refused on the same basis to answer 
questions regarding Communist Party membership at the time he 
sought employment with the Chevrolet Division of General Motors 
in 1955. 

The witness admitted that he had been employed as an instructor 
at the University of Buffalo since 1959 and noted that the name of 
the university had recently been changed to "State University of 
New York at Buffalo." 

He was then shown a certificate which set forth certain qualifica- 
tions for employment at the university and regulations to be followed 
by all State university employees under New York State law. The 
certificate was dated February 6, 1964, and signed "Paul Sporn." 

In this document Mr. Sporn certified that he had followed 
the instructions as set forth. He further certified that he was not a 
member of the Communist Party and, if he ever had been, he had 
communicated the fact to the president of the university. 

In his appearance before the committee, however, Mr. Sporn in- 
voked the fifth amendment and declined to answer all questions re- 
garding this document on the groimds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate him. He also refused to either affirm or deny testimony 
concerning him given under oath by Mr. Berecz and invoked the 
fifth amendment, among other reasons, in refusing to answer questions 
pertaining to membership in the Progressive Labor Movement. 

Witness Joseph Scioli is a labor leader in the Buffalo area. He is 
an international representative for the Communist-dominated Inter- 
national Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers and has been em- 
ployed in that capacity since 1944. 

In testimony before this committee in 1957, Charles Regan and 
Joseph Chatley identified Mr. Scioli as a member of the Communist 
Party. 

In response to committee questions, Mr. Scioli admitted that he 
engages in lobbying activity in behalf of Mine-Mill in the State of 
New York and in Washington, D.C., but he said that, to the best of 
his recollection, he had never signed a non- Communist affidavit as 
required mider the Taft-Hartley law. 

Mr. Scioli declined to answer questions pertaining to his past or 
present membership in the Communist Party on the grounds that it 
might tend to incriminate him. Invoking the same constitutional pro- 
tection, he refused to answer questions pertaining to meetings of labor 
leaders in the Buffalo area at which Andrew Berecz was present and 
would neither affirm nor deny meeting with other Communists in 
the area to discuss the party's colonization plans. 



1522 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Edward A. Wolkenstein was the final witness in the afternoon ses- 
sion on April 29. Wolkenstein had been a witness before the com- 
mittee during its 1957 hearings in Buffalo. At that time, he testified 
that he was not then a member of the Communist Party, but invoked 
the fifth amendment and refused to answer questions pertaining to 
past party membership. 

Mr. Wolkenstein had been a Communist Party colonizer and, with 
Mortimer Scheer and Walter Zvaleko, had been expelled from the 
party by Ben Davis at the party meeting in October 1961, according to 
Mr.Berecz. At that meeting Wolkenstein had been the first to speak 
after Davis had delivered the party's ultimatum to the Erie County 
branch. Berecz recalled that : 

Mr. Wolkenstein said quite a few things at that time. He 
stated tliat he was born in the Communist Party and he 
would like to die in it, but Mr. Ben Davis had other ideas. 
He said he might have been born in it, but he wasn't 
going to die in it unless he fell in line with the national 
committee. 

Confronted with this testimony, Mr. Wolkenstein invoked con- 
stitutional protection, including the fifth amendment, and refused 
to testify about liis expulsion from the Conmiunist Party ; member- 
ship in the Progressive Labor Movement; or whether he knew Morti- 
mer Scheer, Gertrude Alexander, and Walter Zvaleko to be members 
of the Progressive Labor Movement. 

Seymour Rudner, Helen Schwartz, and Walter Zvaleko, appear- 
ing under subpena, testified at an evening session of the hearings on 
April 29. Tobias Schwartz was also called to testify at this session, 
but was so disruptive — yelling and denouncing the committee at the 
top of his voice — that he had to be forcibly removed from the hearing 
room and his testimony postponed until the following day. 

Seymour (Sy) Rudner is employed by Health Research, Inc., a 
division of the Roswell Park Memorial Institute in Buffalo, which is 
en^'iired in research under contract with the National Institutes of 
Hea. li of tlie U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. 

Ainliew Berecz stated under oath that Rudner had been a Com- 
munist Party colonizer in the Buffalo area; that he had once been 
emp]oy<.'d at t]\e American Radiator and Standard Sanitary Corpora- 
tion; and that he had been a member of the same industrial club 
of the party to which Mr. Berecz was assigned. More recently, Mr. 
Berecz testified, Rudner had been elevated to one of the top posts in the 
Erie Comity branch of the Communist Party — he was appointed 
to the four-member secretariat selected by Ben Davis to direct party 
activity in the BulFalo area following the expulsion of Mortimer 
Scheer. 

Appearing under oath, Mr. Rudner invoked the fifth amendment 
and declined to answer questions regarding his educational and em- 
ployment background. He also invoked tlie fifth amendment when 
asked if his employer was subsidized by Federal funds, if he knew 
Berecz, if he was a member of the Communist Party, if he had been 
appointed to the secretariat by Ben Davis in 1961 and by Betty 
Gannett in 1962, if he was familiar with the professional group of 
the Communist Party, and if the party and the Progressive Labor 
Movement cooperated in matters involving Cuba and Red Cliina. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1523 

Helen Schwartz, wife of Tobias Schwartz, had been identified as a 
member of the Coinmmiist Party by Andrew Berecz. 

At a meeting of the party's Tonawanda Club — to which Mr. Berecz 
was assigned following the dissolution of the industrial club — Mrs. 
Schwartz was told, according to Berecz, that she was to transfer from 
the Tonawanda to the Professional Club. She protested the transfer 
and stated that she wanted to remain in the Tonawanda Club; that 
her husband was in the Professional Club and she did not want to be in 
the same club with him. 

Mrs. Schwartz was questioned about the accuracy of the informa- 
tion supplied under oath by Mr. Berecz. Invoking tlie fifth amend- 
ment and other reasons, she refused either to affirm or deny acquaint- 
ance with Mr. Berecz or her attendance at the meeting of the Tona- 
wanda Club which was held at the home of Joe Pranis on the evening 
of January 15, 1960. She also invoked the same reasons when asked 
if she was then a member of the Progressive Labor Movement. 

Following Mrs. Schwartz the committee received the testimony of 
Walter J. Zvaleko. 

Andrew Berecz had identified Walter Zvaleko as a member of the 
Communist Party and had testified that Zvaleko's open support of 
Mortimer Scheer and refusal to align himself with the national com- 
mittee in its dispute with the Buffalo leader had resulted in his ex- 
pulsion from the party with Scheer and Wolkenstein in October 1961. 

Mr. Zvaleko invoked the fifth amendment and other reasons in de- 
clining to answer questions pertaining to past or present membership 
in the Communist Party. He also refused to testify about his expul- 
sion from the party or his acquaintance with Mr. Berecz. 

Wlien counsel asked if he was then a member of the Progressive 
Labor Movement, Mr. Zvaleko declared : 

The Progressive Labor Movement is a new socialist move- 
ment that is looking to solve the problems of the American 
people, trying to free the Negro people from the bondage that 
they face in the South. 

The witness was then directed to answer the question. He invoked 
the fifth amendment and other reasons for refusing to answer. 

On April 30 the subcommittee received tho testimony of Gertrude 
and Richard Alexander, Gloria Massa, Max Berman, Miroslaw 
(Marty) Zelman, Joseph Pranis, Emanuel Freid, and Tobias 
Schwartz. 

Mr. and Mrs. Alexander had been identified by Andrew Berecz 
as Communist Party members assigned to the party's committee on 
nuclear testing. Mrs. Alexander had also been assigi^ed by the party 
to work in "VVomen Strike for Peace and the Women's International 
League for Peace and Freedom. Both Richard and Gen rude Alex- 
ander had supported the position taken by Mortimer Scht'oi at the 
time of his expulsion from the party. Like Paul S})u!n, tloy, too, 
were "invited" by Ben Davis to leave the party after Mrs. A \c. <ander 
questioned Davis' authority to expel Mortimer Scheer at the v ' 'tober 
1961 meeting. 

Although the testimony of the Alexanders was heard separately, 
each of them invoked constitutional protection, including the fifth 
amendment, and refused either to affirm or deny testimony concerning 
them given by Mr. Berecz; their expulsion from the Communist 



1524 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Party; the formation of, or their membership in, the Progressive 
Labor Movement. 

The next witness, Gloria Massa, had been identified by Andrew Ber- 
ecz as the Commmiist Party member who presided at the meeting of 
the Tonawanda Club held in the home of Joseph Pranis on Janu- 
ary 15, 1960. Berecz had also testified that Mrs. Massa was present 
at the meeting in October 1961 when Mortimer Scheer was expelled 
from the party and her husband was appointed to the secretariat of 
the Erie County branch of the party. Moreover, the committee had 
developed information that Mrs. Massa replaced her husband as a 
member of the secretariat of the Erie County party m 1962. 

Confronted with this testimony and information, Mrs. Massa in- 
voked the fifth amendment and declined to answer questions regard- 
ing her membersliip in the Communist Party, her appointment to the 
Erie County secretariat, the nature of the duties she performs as a 
member of the secretariat, or the degree of cooperation between the 
Erie County Communist Party and the Progressive Labor Movement. 

Max Berman, the next witness, had also been identified by Andrew 
Berecz as a member of the Communist Party who attended the 
(3ctober 1961 meeting. 

Mr. Berman declined to affirm or deny the accuracy of statements 
concerning him in Mr. Berecz' testimony. 

Other than to identify himself by name, Mr. Berman invoked the 
fifth amendment and other reasons in refusing to answer every ques- 
tion asked by the committee. 

The committee next received the testimony of Miroslaw (Marty) 
Zelman, who had come into the Buffalo area as a colonizer for the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Berecz had testified about several Communist Party meetings 
he had attended with Mr. Zelman. Of particular importance was the 
meeting in October 1961, at which Mr. Zelman was appointed to the 
secretariat by Ben Davis. Since that date he had remained a member 
of that body, directing party activity in the Buffalo area, according 
to Mr. Berecz. 

Mr. Zelman refused to supply the committee with any information 
except his name. He mvoked the fifth amendment and other reasons 
in refusing to either affirm or deny testimony given by Mr. Berecz, 
past or present membership in the Communist Party, membership on 
the secretariat, or whether changes in the secretariat had been made by 
Betty Gannett at a meeting in his home. 

In a statement made prior to being sworn as a witness, Joseph 
Pranis, the next person to testify, declared that he was a member of 
the United Auto Workers and supported the union in its stand calling 
for abolition of the Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Testimony had been received from Mr. Berecz regarding a meeting 
of the Tonawanda Club of the Erie County Communist Party which 
was held in Mr. Pranis' home on January 15, 1960. 

Mr. Pranis declined to tell the committee if he had allowed his home 
to be used for a Communist Party meeting, basing his refusal on the 
protection afforded him under the Constitution, including the fifth 
amendment. He also invoked constitutional protection in refusing to 
answer questions regarding his past or present membership in the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1525 

Communist Party, acquaintance with ]\[r. Berecz, or membership in 
the Progressive Labor Movement, 

Emanuel Fried, a former official of the Communist-dominated 
United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers union, had been identi- 
fied as a member of the Communist Party by Jack Davis in testimony 
before the Committee on Un-American Activities in 1954 and by 
Charles Regan and Joseph Chatley in 1957. 

Appearing as a witness during the present hearings, Mr. Fried 
invoked the fifth amendment and other reasons in declining to answer 
all questions pertaining to membership in the Conmiunist Party. He 
also refused, on the same grounds, to tell the committee if he had dis- 
cussed Communist Party techniques as they apply to labor groups with 
individuals who had been identified by Mr. Berecz as Communist 
Party colonizers. 

After Mr. Fried was excused, the committee recalled Tobias 
Schwartz. 

Mr. Schwartz blamed his conduct of the ]:)revious evening on the 
stress and tension of a long day. 

Like Sy Rudner, Tobias Schwartz is employed by the Roswell 
Park Memorial Institute of BufTalo, which is under contract with the 
National Institutes of Health. As a research fellow at the State 
University of New York at Buffalo, he is doing graduate work in the 
biological sciences on a grant from the Roswell Park Memorial In- 
stitute. Mr. Schwartz testified that he has been in "this particular 
program from roughly 1958 * * * ." 

The witness was asked if the committee was correctly informed that 
he had been a member of the Communist Party and, in 1960, was as- 
signed to the Professional Club of the Erie County party. 

Mr. Schwartz refused to affirm or deny the accuracy of the informa- 
tion, invoking constitutional protection, including the fifth amend- 
ment. 

In his summation, Mr. Pool, chairman of the subcommittee, thanked 
the members of several Government agencies who had assisted the com- 
mittee during these hearings. He then stated : 

The record of this hearing speaks for itself. There are 
those who say that communism presents no problem — and no 
danger — to the United States. I believe that the facts de- 
veloped in this hearing and the conduct of the witnesses — all 
of them identified as members of the Communist Party — are 
sufficient to refute this claim. 

Basically, there are only two ways of life in the govern- 
mental or political sphere — the way of law and the way of 
the jungle. 

Communism, through the conduct of its adherents in these 
hearings, has been shown to be a throwback, a back-to-the- 
jungle movement — in other words, the blackest form of reac- 
tion. I make this point because there are some who still enter- 
tain the illusion that communism is somehow "progressive" or 
"liberal." 



C03IMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 



WEDNESDAY, APRIL 29, 1964 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of tiie 
Commhtee on Un-American Activities, 

Buffalo,N.Y. 

PUBLIC hearings 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m. in Room 704 of the United States Court- 
house Building, Buffalo, New York, Hon. Joe R, Pool (chairman of 
the subcommittee) presiding. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of 
Louisiana; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; August E. Johansen, of Michigan; 
Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri ; and John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Johansen, 
Ichord, and Ashbrook. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Plitz and Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; and Louis J. Russell and Philip R. 
Manuel, investigators. 

Mr. Pool (presiding). The committee will come to order. 

I first want to announce that there will be no smoking in the court- 
room. That is the rule of the Federal judge that presides over this 
court, and there will be no smoking in this room. 

This subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities is convened today in Buffalo, New York, to conduct hear- 
ings upon the subjects of inquiry and for the legislative purposes set 
forth in the committee resolution adopted March 4, 1964. I offer 
this resolution for the record. It reads as follows : 

BE IT RESOLVED, That hearings be held by the Committee on Un-American 
Activities or a subcommittee thereof, at such times and places as the Chairman 
may determine, and that the staff be authorized to conduct investigations deemed 
reasonably necessary in preparation therefor, relating to : 

1. As concerns the Buffalo, N.T., area : the structure and organization of the 
Communist Party of the United States; its major objectives, and the strategic 
and tactical methods designed to aid in accomplishing such objectives ; the 
major areas of Communist Party concentration ; the international conspiracy 
aspect of the Communist Party of the United States, as well as like information 
regarding other Communist organizations, in order that the Committee and 
Congress may be informed of the extent, character and objectives of the Com- 
munist Party and other Communist organizations for the purpose of recommend- 
ing and adopting remedial legislation designed to protect the national security 
of the country. 

2. Any other matter within the jurisdiction of the Committee vi^hich it, or any 
subcommittee thereof, appointed to conduct these hearings, may designate. 

1527 
36-414—64 2 



1528 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

While the overall objectives of the world Communist movement and 
the U.S. Communist Party remain constant, changes occur within the 
movement and the party, in the structure of their affiliated organiza- 
tions, and in the tactics or strategy employed for the accomplishment 
of their objectives. Only by continuing investigations can these 
changes be fully determined, the facts obtained, and legislation devised 
to provide for the security of the Nation. 

This committee last conducted a series of hearings in Buffalo in 
1957, relating to the activities of the Communist Party in this area. 
Since that time, information has come to the attention of the com- 
mittee that certain significant changes have occurred. Preliminary 
investigations by the committee reveal that in this city, within recent 
years, there have sprung up two new Communist organizations known 
as the Workers World Party, which has split off from the Socialist 
Workers Party, a Trotskyite group, and the Progressive Labor Move- 
ment, which has split off from the main or orthodox Communist Party. 

For a time following the death of Lenin in 1924, the struggle for 
succession between Stalin and Trotsky created dissension within the 
world Communist movement. Both had followers within the Soviet 
Union and outside it. A major point of difference between them was 
that — while both believed in world revolution — Stalin's strategy was 
to give primacy to the consolidation of Communist power in Soviet 
Russia, while Trotsky emphasized the immediate promotion of addi- 
tional Communist revolutions in other countries. Stalin finally over- 
came Trotsky, exiled him in 1927, and later, in 1940, had him assassi- 
nated in Mexico. 

James P. Cannon, a prominent Communist Party leader in the 
United States, supported Trotsky. As a result, after Stalin's accession 
to power. Cannon was read out of the American party. Cannon then 
formed the Socialist Workers Party in the United States, which fol- 
lowed Trotsky's line and leadership. 

Early in 1959, according to committee investigation, differences 
within the Socialist Workers Party led certain of its leaders and 
members to leave the organization and form the Workers World Party, 
which, as I have said, had its inception here in Buffalo. 

A more recent split from the orthodox Communist Party, which 
reflects the differences between Moscow and Peking concerning the 
tactics to be adopted by Communists in conquering the world, devel- 
oped here in Buffalo, following the expulsion in 1961 of two func- 
tionaries of the New York State Communist Party, namely, Mortimer 
Scheer and Milton Rosen. These individuals disagreed with the 
tactical line of Khrushchev and advocated more militant action. They 
attracted followers within the Communist movement who shared their 
views, and organized here in Buffalo the nucleus of another new Com- 
munist group, the Progressive Labor Movement, which now has its 
headquarters in New York City. 

In committee hearings last year dealing with illegal travel to Cuba 
by 50-odd "students" in the summer of 1963, it was revealed that the 
majority of the leaders of the group were members of the Progressive 
Labor Movement. It is significant that while in Cuba the group 
visited the Red Chinese Embassy, but ignored the Soviet Embassy. 
The Progressive Labor Movement, by this and other actions such as 
promoting the sale of Chinese Communist literature in the United 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1529 

States to the exclusion of Soviet publications, has made it clear that 
it has taken the side of Peking in the current Sino-Soviet dispute. 

Taken together, these various Communist groups present a sub- 
stantial threat to the peace and security of the United States. All of 
them advocate revolutionary action to alter our constitutional form of 
government. This menace demands the attention of the Congress and 
of this committee which the House has mandated to investigate sub- 
versive and Communist activities. 

I now oifer for the record the order of appointment of this subcom- 
mittee, as follows : 

March 26, 1964. 

To : Mr. Francis J. McNamara, 

Director, Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby 
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, consisting 
of Honorable Joe R. Pool, Honorable Richard H. Ichord, Honorable August E. 
Johansen, and Honorable John M. Ashbrook, as associate members, and myself, 
as Chairman, to conduct hearings in Buffalo, New York, commencing on or about 
Tuesday, April 14, 1964, and/or at such other times thereafter and places as said 
subcommittee shall determine, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the 
Committee on the 4th day of March, 1964, authorizing hearings concerning certain 
Communist activities in the Buffalo, New York area, and other matters under 
investigation by the Committee. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 26th day of March, 1964. 

/s/ Edwin E. Willis 
Edwin E. Willis 
Chairman, Committee on JJn-Am^erican Activities 

As stated in the order here, Mr. Willis, the chairman of the com- 
mittee, was to preside at this hearing, but pressing business kept him 
in Washington, and he has appointed me to act as chairman in his 
place. 

According to the rules of the House, the rules forbid televising of 
hearings, and I will have to ask that the television cameras, et cetera, 
be turned off or removed from the hearing room. 

The committee has received a request from Robert Fleming, attorney 
for two witnesses subpenaed to testify here today, that the committee 
adopt new rules of procedure for this hearing. The committee met 
this morning and considered the request and denied it. The committee 
determined that it should proceed as in the past and as all congressional 
committees proceed — proceed in that manner. It is bound by the Rules 
of the House of Representatives, and we are going to follow them, and 
proceed. 

A few minutes ago, the committeemen met in executive session and 
considered a request of a group of lawyers here, and, as I understand 
it, they have selected one lawyer who would like to speak to the com- 
mittee, and if he will come forward, we will be glad to hear him. 

I would like to point out that one man will represent all the lawyers 
here and make his request. As I understand it, they all have the same 
request, and I would like to have the names of the lawyers, if you will 
give those to the reporter. 

Also, I would like to ask that the statement be brief and concise and 
to the point. 

Mr. Faulkner. My name is Stanley Faulkner. I am an attorney 
from New York City and I represent witnesses before this committee. 



1530 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

I also want to introduce to the committee the other attorneys who 
are representing other witnesses before the committee, and then I will 
make my request to the committee. 

Mr. Witt. My name is Nathan Witt, Post Office Box 156, New 
York City, 23, New York. I am an attorney and am here representing 
the subpenaed witness, eToseph Scioli. 

Mr. Gibson. I am Will Gibson. My address is 319 Main Street, 
Buffalo, New York. 1 represent the witnesses, Mr. Zelman and Mr. 
Berman. 

Mr. GoLLOBiisr. My name is Ira Gollobin, and I am from New York 
City, 1441 Broadway, New York 18. I am representing Mr. and Mrs. 
Schwartz, Mr. Paul Sporn, and Mr. Zvaleko. 

Mr. LiPSiTz. My name is Richard Lipsitz, 120 Delaware Avenue, 
Buffalo, New York. I represent Joseph Pranis, P-r-a-n-i-s. 

Mr. Fleming. My name is Robert Fleming, 77 West Eagle Street, 
Buffalo, New York. I represent Emanuel Fried and Gloria Massa. 

Mr. Bradley. My name is Martin R. Bradley, Jr. My office ad- 
dress is 900 Ellicott Square, Buffalo, New York. I represent Mrs. 
Moos. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Faulkner, you have not stated whom you represent. 

Mr. Faulkner, Mr. and Mrs. Alexander and Mr. Rudner. 

Mr. Chairman, the request is made at this time that the committee, in 
the manner and order in which it is holding the hearing this morning 
in this courtroom and under the conditions in which it is being held, is 
not a public hearing, within your own rules. I refer to rule XI, sub- 
section 26(g), which states: "All hearings conducted by standing 
committees or their subcommittees shall be open to the public." 

Now, Mr. Chairman, I undei stand that this hearing this morning is 
being attended by persons who have gained admission by invitation. 
It has not been a first-come-tirst-serve operation. I think that any 
public hearing, to serve the purpose for which it is intended and which 
this committee has amiounced in its own rules, should be open to the 
public in the true sense of the word. My opinion is that this is not 
a public hearing. It is violating — this committee is violating its own 
rules. 

I recommend that the committee go back into session and reconsider, 
for the purpose of moving to a larger courtroom, which I understand 
is available in the building, so that those people who want to attend 
can have the opportmiity to do so, provided they are in line early 
enough to gain admission, but that there be no discrimination on ad- 
mission to those who have received invitations, either by members of 
this committee or by organizations who have been given these invita- 
tions by members of this committee. 

I challenge, for the record, the committee hearing this morning as 
being a public hearing. It is not. It is a farce. 

[Applause in the audience.] 

Mr. Faulkner. I am speaking for all the attorneys. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. There will be no further applause or 
demonstration in this hearing room. 

The committee met and considered the request this morning, and they 
are unanimous in their agreement that they feel that it is a public 
hearing, since the press, television, and others are here, and no doubt 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.T., AREA 1531 

some of your friends are here too. What we heard a while ago, so in- 
dicates. So the request has been denied. 

Mr. Faulkner. I don't know, Mr. Chairman, whether you are fa- 
miliar with the constitutional rights of public trial, and certainly if 
this were a public trial in a courtroom, it would not stand up. I also 
think that the minimum that this committee should do is respect its 
own rules. I think it is not doing so, and I take strong exception to the 
consideration that this committee took this morning. 

Mr. Pool. I understand you disagree with me, and that is fine, but 
we have rendered a decision and we consider it a public hearing. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, let the record show that this is not 
a public trial. 

Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Johansen. 

I have already given you men the right to talk, so I will go ahead 
with the hearings. 

Will counsel proceed and call your first witness. 

Mr. Gibson. I represent two of the subpenaed witnesses. 

Mr. Pool. You will appear. 

Mr. Gibson. I think it was agreed in the hallway prior to this hear- 
ing that these requests be made prior to the opening of the hearing. 

Mr. Pool. I gave you the right to appoint a spokesman, and you 
have had your say, and we have denied the request. 

Mr. Gibson. This has nothing to do with the request that was jointly 
made. It has something to do with the request I want to make with 
respect to the two witnesses I represent. 

Mr. Pool. When they come before the committee, I am sure that you 
will be allowed to make your statement. 

Mr. Gibson. If the Chair would listen to my request, I think the 
Chair will agree that this request can be made now. 

Mr. Pool. It is not time at this time, and I will ask counsel to pro- 
ceed with calling the first witness. 

Mr. Gibson. I insist 

Mr. Pool. You had your chance to speak, and your spokesman did 
not bring this up. 

Mr. Gibson. This is a different point. 

Mr. Pool. We will take it up at the proper time. 

Mr. Gibson. This is the proper time. We would like to know 
whether this table is bugged ; is it bugged ? It was last time.^ 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, proceed with the first witness. 

Mr. Bradley. Let the record show that you did not answer the 
question. 

Mr. HiTz. I call Andrew Berecz to the witness stand. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Berecz, will you stand and take the oath. Do you 
solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this 
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Berecz. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ANDREW J. BERECZ 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I am advised tliat this microphone may 
need some attention. I wonder if I could give it that attention? 

_Mr. Pool. We will hold up the proceedings until you get your 
microphone fixed. Off the record. 

*See p. 1666, chairman's closing statement, i.rs. 5 and 6. 



1532 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

(There was a brief disoussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. It has just been brought to my attention that some radio 
microphones have been placed around the room. I will order that 
they all be removed, because they are not supposed to be in here. I 
don't know which one is which. Counsel, are you ready to proceed? 

Mr. HiTz. I am ready, and I am proceeding on the theory that there 
is no live or recording television apparatus in operation in the room 
and that there is no radio apparatus in the room, and I would like the 
chairman please to make the announcement that we are proceeding on 
that theory. 

Mr. Pool. That is the theory we are proceeding on, and I will 
caution you, for the last time, to remove any radio or television ap- 
paratus ; that this hearing cannot be covered on that. Go ahead. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you give your full name, please ? 

Mr. Bereoz. Andrew J. Berecz. 

Mr. Hrrz. Your address ? 

Mr. Berecz. 792 Kuie Road, North Tonawanda. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that B-e-r-c-z ? 

Mr. Berecz. B-e-r-e-c-z. 

Mr. HiTz. And the road on which you live is R-u-i-e? 

Mr. Berecz. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born, Mr. Berecz ? 

Mr. Berecz. I was bom in Hungary, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. When ? 

Mr. Berecz. 1914, February 28. 

Mr. HiTZ. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Berecz. 1929. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. When were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Berecz. In 1936. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliere are you now employed ? 

Mr. Berecz. American Radiator and Standard Sanitary Corpora- 
tion of Buffalo, New York. 

Mr. HiTZ. How long have you been employed by American 
Radiator? 

Mr. Berecz. Thirty-one years. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you ever join the International Workers Order, Mr. 
Berecz ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. When did you do that ? 

Mr. Berecz. The latter part of '36 or the first part of '37 ; I am not 
sure, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you tell us, What was the International Workers 
Order at that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. At that time, the International Workers Order was 
one of those fraternal societies with insurance and sick benefits. 

Mr. HiTz. Insurance and sick benefits ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that the purpose for which you joined the organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1533 

Mr. HiTz. How long did you remain a member of the organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. Berecz. Until New York State liquidated it. 

Mr. HiTZ. When was that? 

Mr. Berecz. I believe it was aroimd 1950. 

Mr. Hrrz. Did you ever hold an official position in the IWO ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What j^osition did you hold ? 

Mr. Berecz. I was the financial secretary for the Hungarian Sec- 
tion for 15 years or so, from the time I joined and almost until it 
was liquidated. 

Mr. Hrrz. Wliat other positions did you hold in the organization? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there was a club, that we called it. 

Mr. HiTz. A what? 

Mr. Berecz. A club. 

Mr. HiTz. Club? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. There were five different nationalities at the 
club. There were Hungarians, Polish, Ukrainians, Russians, and 
Czechoslovakians, and I was the chairman of this club which had a 
barroom and different things. 

Mr. HiTz. You were the chairman of it. How would you describe 
the club, as chairman of the club, and give its name ? 

Mr. Berecz. They called it the International Workers Order 
Center. 

Mr. Hrrz. You were chairman of the Center ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you pull that microphone toward you? And talk 
into it? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you. In what period of time were you the chair- 
man of this club ? 

Mr. Berecz. From about 1939 until 1941. 

Mr. HiTz. And when were you the financial secretary of the Hun- 
garian Section? 

Mr. Berecz. From about '38 until it was almost liquidated. 

Mr. Hrrz. Are you aware of any contribution by the International 
Workers Order for the Communist Party, sir ? 

Mr. Berecz. Up to the latter part of '41, 1 wasn't, sir. In the latter 
part of '41 or early part of '42, I am not sure of the year, the com- 
mittee that was formed at this place decided that they were going to 
give $300 to each one of the nationality papers. At this time, they 
also donated $300 to the Communist Party paper, what they called 
the Daily Worker at that time. 

Mr. HiTZ. Now, who was it that made the contribution; I am not 
thinking of the individuals, but you say this organization did ; what 
part of the organization of the International Workers Order did 
that? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, this was a group of people elected from each one 
of the branches, two persons from each one of the nationality groups 
that I named, and that was the committee that then did this donation. 

Mr. HiTz. That is the committee that what ? 

Mr. Berecz, That gave the donation to the papers. 



1534 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. Did that come within your jurisdiction as an officer of 
thelWO? 

Mr. Bekecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. In your capacity as financial secretary of the Hungarian 
Section or as financial chairman of the Buffalo operation? 

Mr. Berecz. As both, sir. 

Mr.HiTz. Both? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who obtained this donation from the IWO for the Daily 
Worker? 

Mr. Berecz. At that time it was a fellow by the name of Frank 
Herron. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that H-e-r-r-o-n ? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know the spelling of his name, sir. I haven't 
seen that man since. 

Mr. HiTZ. And who authorized that payment for the Daily 
Worker — to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, the committee did. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you participate in the authorization of that pay- 
ment? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, because I did not know what it was. I did 
not know what the Daily Worker was at that time. 

Mr. HiTz. Subsequently, was there a further effort by the Commu- 
nist Party to obtain a contribution from the International Workers 
Order? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. How long after that ? 

Mr. Berecz. About 3 weeks or so, they came down from the common 
headquarters and they did not ask they demanded, $600, and this is 
when I 

Mr. Hrrz. Wlio came down to the IWO ? 

Mr. Berecz. A girl by the name of Svea Katz. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you spell her first name ? 

Mr. Berecz. I'm not sure. 

Mr. HiTz. S-v-e-a ; does that sound like it ? 

Mr. Berecz. It sounds like it, but I don't know. 

Mr. Hrrz. The last name ? 

Mr. Berecz. Katz. 

Mr. HiTz. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Berecz. That is K-a-t-z. 

Mr.HiTZ. Wlioelse? 

Mr. Berecz. A fellow by the name of Leonard Costa. 

Mr. HiTz. Would you give us an attempted spelling for that ? 

Mr. Berecz. C-o-s-t-a. 

Mr. HiTz. Would you consider that a phonetic effort to spell that; 
do you know what I mean ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I would. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you know what I mean ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, I do ; but I don't know his full name, the spell- 
ing of it. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you. Did anyone else make this request or de- 
mand upon the IWO for a contribution ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1535 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there were certain members of the committee that 
did. 

Mr. HiTz. Are these the only two that made the request or demand, 
as you have said, on behalf of the Communist Party for a $600 con- 
tribution from the IWO ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, 

Mr. HiTZ. "VYliat took place in answer to this request ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I, as chairman, did not agree with them and I 
refused; and I told them that as long as I was the chairman I wasn't 
willing to give them money because, to begin with, these people were 
never around. 

Mr. HiTz. They were never what ? 

Mr. Berecz. They never came around any other time, just when they 
wanted the money, so I refused, and the committee voted that they 
would give them money, and I refused to sign a check, so at this time 
they called a general membership meeting of all the branches, the five 
branches that were located in there, and they expelled me from the 
club, as a chairman of the club. They had a general membership meet- 
ing where I got up and stated that I was never a Communist and that 
I never would be one. 

Mr. HiTZ. You stated that you were not a Communist ? 

Mr. Berecz. That I wouldn't be one. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was that a meeting of the committee of the IWO that 
you were a member of ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. It was only what they call a general member- 
ship meeting, that is, all the members of each one of the branches, the 
sections, the nationality sections, were invited to this meeting. 

Mr. HiTz. A general membership meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. That is right, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you speak a little more slowly; we are trying to get 
this recorded. 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hnz. Did you subsequently receive a visit from the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. How much later than your statement of refusal to sign 
the authorization for the demand of payment to the Communist Party 
was this ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I made the statement about 5 o'clock Sunday 
afternoon and the following morning I received a visit from the FBI. 

Mr. HiTz. How many agents of the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion visited you ? 

Mr. Berecz. Three of them. 

Mr. HiTZ. What did they say to you ? 

Mr. Berecz. They asked me if I would be willing to cooperate with 
them on Communist activities at the hall. 

Mr. HiTZ. At what hall ? 

Mr. Berecz. At the International Workers Order Center. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat did you reply ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr, HiTZ. What year was that ? 

Mr. Berecz. In 1942. 

Mr. HiTz. What part of the year? 



1536 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz. The latter part of the year; I don't recall the month; 
somewhere around October, somewhere around there, sir; I don't 
recall the exact month. 

Mr. Hrrz. Now, did they specify any particular activity that they 
wanted you to report to them on in the IWO ? 

Mr. Beregz. Yes; they asked me to report on Communist activities 
in the Center and in the groups, as well. 

Mr. HiTz. In the wliat? 

Mr. Berecz. In the Center and in the nationality groups. 

Mr, IIiTZ. Did you report to the Federal Bureau of Investigation as 
they requested you to ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr, HiTz. Over what period of time did you report to them, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. From 1942 to 1962, 

Mr. HiTz. Did the Federal Bureau of Investigation make a further 
request of you, approximately in 1962 ? 

Mr. Berecz. 1946. 

Mr. HiTz. I am sori-y about the date. They did make a further 
request of you ? 

Mr, Berecz, Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat was the request they made then ? 

Mr. Berecz. They asked me if I was invited to join the Communist 
Party, that I should join and start reporting on the activity of the 
Communist Party in the Buif alo area. 

Mr.HiTz. What partof 1946 was that? 

Mr, Berecz. In the latter part of '46, also, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you subsequently invited to join the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Hrrz, Tell us who invited you, 

Mr, Berecz, A fellow by the name— who was the organizer at the 
time, by the name of Sam Coleman and John Touralchuk. 

Mr. Hrrz. Is that spelled T-o-u-r-a-l-c-h-u-k ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz, Do you know that to be the spelling ? 

Mr, Berecz, Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. How did you respond to that invitation to join the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. At the first time I refused, and then I was asked the 
second time, and I did join the Commimist Party in 1946. 

Mr. HiTz. What part of '46 did you join the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. The latter part of '46 ; I don't know the exact month. 
It was later in the fall. 

Mr. HiTz, Wliat was your first assignment in the party ? To what 
part of the party ? 

Mr, Berecz, I was in what they called the Industrial Club, 

Mr, HiTz. The Industrial Club? 

Mr, Berecz. Yes, sir, 

Mr. HiTz. Was that here in Buffalo ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Now, at that time, you must have been working for 
American Radiator ; is that right ? 

Mr, Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you belong to a union at American Radiator Cor- 
poration? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1537 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What was the union ? 

Mr. Berecz. CIO. 

Mr. HiTz. And more precisely, what was it ? 

Mr. Berecz. A steel union. 

Mr.HiTz. WasittheUSWA? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. What does that mean ? 

Mr. Berecz. United Steelworkers of America. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you belong to a particular local of the USWA at 
that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, 1199. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you receive a Communist Party card indicating your 
membership, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you pay dues ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you read the statement of allegiance which was con- 
tained on the Communist Party card that you received in 1946 ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat was the statement, sir, so far as you can recall ? 

Mr. Berecz. "To always defend the interests of the working class" — 
that meant I pledge allegiance to the Soviet Union and all Communist 
parties — and to "master" Marxism-Leninism and the program of the 
party, which in Communist talk meant I would violently overthrow 
the United States Government.^ 

Mr. HiTz. Will you repeat that ? 

Mr. Berecz. "To always defend the working class" — which meant 
I pledge allegiance to the Soviet Union and all Communist parties — 
and to "master" Marxism-Leninism and the party program, and that 
meant, in Communist talk, I would violently overthrow the United 
States Government.^ 



1 For purpoees of clarity, Mr. Berecz asked for and received permission to revise his 
answer to tliis and to tlie following question. His original reply to the question was as 
follows : "I pledge allegiance to the Soviet Union. * * * i would violently overthrow the 
U.S. Government." 

" The statement which appeared on the 1946 U.S. Communist Party membership card 
read in full as follows (emphasis added) : 

"Rights and Duties of Party Members 

"To attend club meetings, read the Party press and literature, pay dues regularly and 
he active on behalf of the program and policies of the Party. 

"To at all times loyally defend the interests of the working class against the forces of 
fascism and reaction. 

"To fight against all forms of national oppression, discrimination and segregation, and 
all ideological influences and practices of 'racial' theories. 

"To fight for the full social, political and economic equality of the Negro people, for 
Negro and white unity. 

"To participate in working out all policies and tasks of the club, and to regularly examine 
the execution of such policies. 

"To vote for all officers, committees and delegates, and be elected to any office or com- 
mittee in accord with provisions of the Constitution. 

"To appeal any decision with which there is disagreement to the next higher body, 
carrying out the decision while appeal is pending. 

"To strive to master the program and policies of the Party, the principles of Marxism- 
Leninism." 



1538 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. Who was the chairman and the organizer of the Indus- 
trial Club when you joined it, Mr. Berecz ? 

Mr. Bekecz. a fellow by the name of Joseph Green. 

Mr. HiTz. Joseph Green ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did he live ? 

Mr. Berecz. He lived in Buffalo here. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you remember where he worked at that time? 

Mr. Berecz. He worked for American Radiator in the bonding 
plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. B-o-n-d-i-n-g? 

Mr. Berecz. B-o-n-d Plant. 

Mr.HiTZ. B-o-n-d Plant? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was Mr. Green also an organizer for the Industrial 
Club? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. What other members of the Industrial Club can you 
recall at this time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, offhand, Hyman Rosoff. 

Mr. HiTz. R-o-s-o-f-f? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. ^¥liere did Mr. Rosoff work? 

Mr. Berecz. American Radiator Company — Corporation. 

Mr. HiTz. Who else can you remember ? 

Mr. Berecz. Milton Kaplan who worked for Westinghouse. 

Mr. HiTz. Is his name spelled with a "K" ? 

Mr. Berecz. K-a-p-1-a-n, 

Mr. HiTz. Can you name anyone else ? 

Mr. Berecz. Norman Sternbach. 

Mr. Hrrz. His name is spelled S-t-e-r-n-b-a-c-h ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did Mr. Sternbach work ? 

Mr. Berecz. He also worked for the American Radiator Corpora- 
tion but in the Stamping Plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. Go on. 

Mr. Berecz. Also, Sy Rudner worked for American Radiator in 
the Stamping Plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is his name R-u-d-n-e-r? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Go on. 

Mr. Berecz. Milton Rosen. 

Mr. HiTZ. Milton R-o-s-e-n? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you remember anyone else ? 

Mr. Berecz. Offhand, I don't recall anybody else, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. In this period of time, did you know Diantha Hoag ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ, Did you then Imow where she was employed ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes; she also belonged to the club and she worked at 
Westinghouse. 

Mr. HiTZ. At that time did you know Russell DePasquale ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1539 

Mr. HiTz. D-e-P-a-s-q-u-a-1-e ; did you know liim then ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did vou know where he then worked ? 

Mr. Berecz. I believe he was working at the Bethlehem Steel Com- 
pany in Lackawanna. 

Mr. HiTz. Was he a member of the Industrial Club at that time? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you know a person named Alexander Salmin, 
S-a-1-m-i-n, or thereabouts ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliere did he work, sir ? 

Mr. Berecz. He also worked for American Radiator Company in 
the Bond Plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you know him in any other way ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he belonged to the Industrial Club, also. 

Mr. HiTZ. Industrial Club? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you know anyone working at the Twin Coach Com- 
pany at that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Who did you laiow working there ? 

Mr. Berecz. A fellow by the name of Anthony Massa. 

Mr. HiTz. Anthony M-a-s-s-a ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you know him in any other way than as an employee 
of Twin Coach? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he was in the party and he came to some of the 
meetings, the Industrial Club meetings. 

Mr. HiTZ. By "party," what party do you mean ? 

Mr. Berecz. The Communist Party of U.S.A. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you now recall names of any other members of the 
Industrial Club ^ of the Communist Party in the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Berecz. (No response.) 

Mr. HiTz. If you don't, just tell us you don't. 

Mr. Berecz. No, I don't. 

Mr. HiTZ. How long did you remain a member of the Industrial 
Club, Mr. Berecz ? 



1 Mr. Berecz, contacted by the committee after this hearing, advised that he had inad- 
vertently used the expression. "Industrial Club," In referring to the Industrial Section of 
the Communist Party in his above testimony (pp. 1536-1540). 

Tlie Industrial Section, he added, was made up of a number of clubs, each composed of 
workers in different Industries and/or plants. The Bond Club, to which he had belonged, 
was one of the clubs in the Industrial Section. (It was composed of part.v members em- 
ployed in the bonding plant of the American Radiator & Standard Sanitary Corp.) 

Mr. Berecz further stated that party members in industry and the individual Communists 
that he had named on pages 15.S6-1540 of his testimony were members of the various cluljs 
in the Industrial Section, rather than members of the section (which did not have members 
as such, although a number of party leaders were assigned to it as organizers). 

With this clarification, he stated that Joseph Green was an organizer for the Industrial 
Section of the party in Erie County and chairman of the Bond Club. He also stated that 
Hyman RosoflP, Milton Kaplan. Norman Sternbach, Sy Rudner. and Alexander Salmin — all 
inadvertently referred to In his testimony as members of the "Industrial Club" — were 
actually members of the Bond Club. Dlantha Hoag, he stated, worked at Westinghouse 
and was not technically a member of the Bond Club, but attended its meetings because, 
after the committee's 1957 hearlnsrs in Buffalo, the Westinchouse Club had been dissolved. 

Mr. Berecz stated that Milton Rosen, Russell DePasqTiale. and Anthony Massa were all 
organizers for the Industrial Section of the party. To his knowledge, they were not 
attached to any particular club in the section but, as organizers of it, could attend meetings 
of any of the clubs in it. 

Mr. Berecz' clarification of his testimony is substantiated by the testimony of another 
former FBI undercover informant, Charles Regan, who testified before this committee on 
the Communist Party's organizational structure in Erie County in the 1957 hearings. 



1540 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz, Probably I was a member of the Industrial Club, 
about 12, 13 years, or better than that, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. That would be until somewhere in the neighborhood of 
1958 or '59? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hjtz. Wliat happened to the club then ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, at that time, the party was taking some steps. 

Mr. HiTz. The party did what ? 

Mr. Berecz. It was taking some necessaiy steps for security, and the 
club was dissolved ; the Industrial Club was dissolved, and they more 
or less set up what they called the community clubs. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you know what caused those certain security steps to 
be taken ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Tell us what that was. 

Mr. Berecz. The Smith Act and the McCarran Act and the registra- 
tion for the party. 

Mr. HiTz. What acts did they take that caused the Industrial Club 
to be liquidated ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I think they had no more use for it because there 
wasn't too many men that belonged to it, and I think that security 
coming in the club was their idea. It was to cut the clubs back to 
four, if it's necessary, and not more than eight, regardless of what 
happened ; so just in case, if a place where the meetings was held was 
raided, there wouldn't be too many members there. 

Mr. HiTz. Which community club were you assigned to ? 

Mr. Berecz. I was assigned to the Tonawanda Club. 

Mr. HiTZ. About what year was that, Mr. Berecz ? 

Mr. Berecz. Somewhere around '59 and '60; somewhere around 
there, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. How long did you remain a member of the Tonawanda 
Community Club ? 

Mr. Berecz. About a year before I testified in front of the Sub- 
versive [Activities Control] Board. 

Mr. HiTZ. When was that you testified before that Board ? 

Mr. Berecz. In 1962, October. 

Mr. HiTz, Was the Tonawanda Community Club a branch of the 
Communist Party, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And was it a part of the Erie County branch of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did the Communist Party at that time have any na- 
tionality clubs in this area? 

Mr. Berecz. Not at that time; the nationality club was started 
later. 

Mr. HiTz, Did you ever belong to a nationality club of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you tell us when that was and what sort of a club 
it was? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, a nationality club was organized about 1961, and 
the idea was to create the nationality culture and background of the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1541 

nationality club, and this is to gain more members for the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. HiTz. When did you leave the Communist Party, Mr. Berecz ? 

Mr. Berecz. In 1962, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What part of the year ? 

Mr. Berecz. That was in October. 

Mr. HiTz. During your membership in the Communist Part}^ were 
you aware of the movement of the people from New York City and 
thereabouts, into the Buffalo area, who were members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you have any name or expression for them who did 
that ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, they were called the colonizers. 

Mr. HiTz. Colonizers? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you name any of the colonizers who came into the 
Buffalo area in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you name some you can recall ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mortimer Scheer was one who was the Communist 
Party organizer in this area. 

Mr. HiTz. Mortimer Scheer, S-c-h-e-e-r ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you remember him as an officer of the local Com- 
munist Party after he arrived here ? 

Mr. Berecz. Not after he arrived ; later on, he became an officer of 
the Communist Party — The chairman of the Communist Party of 
Erie County. 

Mr. HiTZ. Of Erie County? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. When did Mr. Scheer come here as a colonizer in the 
party ? 

Mr. Berecz. It was after 1950 ; I don't recall the year, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And who else came as a colonizer ? 

Mr. Berecz. Sy Rudner. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know where he came from ? 

Mr. Berecz. As far as I know, they came from New York. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you know a man named Milton Rosen at that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did he depart this area and go elsewhere from the 
Communist Party of Erie County ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did he go and when did he leave? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know the year when he left, but he went to New 
York to take a job with the Communist Party of U.S.A. as labor sec- 
retary in New York City. 

Mr. HiTz. Was that the position in the New York State Communist 
Party which he took after he left here ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did his departure have anything to do with the work of 
Mortimer Scheer in this area ? 



1542 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz, Yes, sir ; when lie departed, then Mortimer Scheer took 
over as chairman of the Communist Party of Erie Comity in this area. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did Mr, Scheer work at this time? 

Mr. Berecz. He was working for some cement company; I don't 
know the name of the company. 

Mr. HiTz. Cement company ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. In the area ? 

Mr. Berecz. In the area. 

Mr. HiTZ. Can you name any other colonizers who came into the 
Communist Party in this area ? 

Mr. Berecz. There was quite a few of them at that time, sir. There 
was Alexander Salmin and Mr. Ingerman. 

Mr. HiTz. Say that again? 

Mr. Berecz. Ingerman, 

Mr. HiTz. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Berecz. I-n-g-e-r-m-a-n. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you remember the first name ? 

Mr. Berecz. Sid, I believe ; we always called him Sid. 

Mr. HiTz. Sid Ingerman. What other colonizers do you remember ? 

Mr. Berecz. Edward Wolkenstein. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that spelled W-o-l-k-e-n-s-t-e-i-n ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Anyone else ? 

Mr. Berecz. Alexander Sahniii ; I don't know if I named him. 

Mr. HiTZ. Yes. 

Mr. Berecz. Then there was a man by the name of Marty Zelman. 

Mr. HiTZ. Z-e-1-m-a-n? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Was Milton Rosen himself a colonizer, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliat is a colonizer ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, a colonizer that came up here from New York. 
They are people well educated and they went into different industries 
to work and they wouldn't reveal their identity. They would go in 
steel mills and every kind of a shop to work, instead of going to the 
profession that they actually belonged to. 

Mr. HiTZ. By that, do you mean that they were taking positions 
that were not up to their capabilities ? 

Mr. Berecz. I wouldn't say "up to their capabilities"; they took 
jobs but they were suited for better jobs than they took. 

Mr. HiTZ. They were suited for better jobs than they took? 

Mr. Berecz. That is right. 

Mr. HiTZ. Now, by that, do you mean that they were suited by rea- 
son of education or training for better jobs than they took? 

Mr, Berecz. I think they were trained for better jobs, yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. They were what? 

Mr. Berecz. They were trained for better jobs, and they took jobs 
that did not belong to them. They took hard labor jobs instead of 
taking the jobs that they actually were trained for. 

Mr. HiTz. Would it be accurate to say that they were downgrading 
their possibilities in taking the new jobs as colonizers? 

Mr. Berecz. I would say so, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y,, AREA 1543 

Mr. Hrrz. Is that a correct statement ? 

Mr. Berecz. I think it is. 

Mr. HiTz. Go on. 

Mr. Berecz. Then there was Walter Zvaleko. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that Z-v-a-1-e-k-o ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. We will have a short recess. 

(A sliort recess was taken.) 

Mr. Pool. The hearing will now come to order again. 

Counsel may proceed. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Berecz, you mentioned Mr. Zvaleko as being a mem- 
ber of the group of colonizers that you were naming. Is the spelling 
of his name Z-e-v-a-1-k-o-s ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. "Wliat was the first name of the man whom you recall in 
the colonizing movement ? 

Mr. Berecz. Walter. 

Mr. HiTz. Walter? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. How do you sell his name ? 

Mr. Berecz. Z-v-a-1-e-k-o. 

Mr. Hii^. No "s" on the end of it ? 

Mr. Berecz. No. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did Mr. Zvaleko live? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know where he lives, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you know what part of Buffalo he lived in ? 

Mr. Berecz. He lives in the south part of Buffalo, I believe. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have anything further to tell us or any other 
names that you can remember in the colonizing movement of the Com- 
munist Party in this area ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir ; more names. Paul Sporn. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did he come from ? 

Mr. Berecz. New York City, also. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliere did he go ? 

Mr. Berecz. What do you mean, "where did he go," sir? 

Mr. HiTz. Well, he arrived in the Buffalo area; is that right, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. What part of the area did he arrive in and where did he 
go here ? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know where he went when he arrived, and I 
kno-f^ that he is working at U.B.— as assistant professor at the Uni- 
"»'orsity of Buffalo. 

Mr. HiTz. University of Buffalo? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you tell us whom you remember as organizers of 
the Communist Party while you were a member of the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. I joined the Communist Party and the organizers were 
Norman Ross and Sam Coleman. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that C-o-l-e-m-a-n ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. That was from '46 to '48, and then there was a 
fellow by the name of Johnnie Noto. 

Mr. HiTZ. Slow down. Johhnie who ? 

Mr. Berecz. Noto. 

36-414—64 3 



1544 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. N-o-t-o ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who else? 

Mr. Berecz. Russell DePasquale, Joseph Green, Milton Rosen, and 
Mortimer Scheer ; that's up to '61. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you attend a meeting of the group of the members 
of the Communist Party in Buffalo in the month of October 1961, Mr. 
Berecz ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Of such meetings, do you recall one in which there came 
two members of the Communist Party from New York City ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Were they high officials of the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who were they ? 

Mr. Berecz. Ben Davis and Louis Weinstock from New York City. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you know what their positions in the Communist 
Party were at that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, one was the New York State secretary of the 
Communist Party — Ben Davis; and Louis Weinstock was the labor 
secretary of the Communist Party. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you tell us whom Louis Weinstock succeeded as 
labor secretary ? 

Mr. Berecz. Milton Rosen. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is he the one who had left Buffalo some time before? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliere was this meeting at which those two New York 
officials appeared? 

Mr. Berecz. The only way I know is a fellow by the name of Mc- 
Kenzie ; it was at his house. 

Mr. HiTz. "Wliere in this area was the house; do you remember? 

Mr. Berecz. Around the Humboldt Park section ; I don't remember 
the street or I do not remember the number of the house. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you tell us who were present at the meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there was Benjamin Davis from New York, 
Louis Weinstock, Paul Sporn, Mr. and Mrs. Massa. 

Mr. HiTZ. Give her first name. 

Mr. Berecz. Mr. Anthony Massa and Mrs. Gloria Massa and Gert- 
rude Alexander and Dick Alexander. 

Mr. HiTz. Richard Alexander ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. Edward Wolkenstein, Walter Zvaleko, 
Marty Zelman and his wife. 

Mr. HiTz. Give his wife's name ? 

Mr. Berecz. Dottie Zelman, and also Mr. and Mrs. Berman, Bea 
Berman and Max Berman. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you remember anyone else who was present? 

Mr. Berecz. Walter Zvaleko and his wife. Vera Zvaleko, Sy 
Rudner. 

Mr. HiTz. Who was the principal officer of the Communist Party 
of this area at tliis meeting. ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mortimer Scheer. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you remember anybody else who was present? 

Mr. Bekecz. No, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1545 

Mr. HiTz. Did Mr. Scheer open the meeting with any remarks that 
you can now recall ? 

Mr, Berecz. Yes, sir. He opened tlie meeting up with the remarks 
that Ben Davis presented a resolution dealing with the Smith and 
McCarran Acts and the law ordering the Communist Party registra- 
tion, and everybody would be allowed to talk 5 minutes on the resolu- 
tion, provided that they called the committee of the Communist Party 
of the area would have the first choice. 
Mr. HiTz. Did Mr. Davis present his resolution ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliat did he say was the resolution and what did it 
contain ? 

Mr. Berecz. It contained the McCarran Act and the Smith Act 
and registration of the Communist Party. 

Mr. HiTz. Did he say from whence that resolution came ; did he say 
where he got the resolution ? 

Mr. Berecz. From the national party headquarters in New York 
City. 
Mr. HiTZ. Did he read it ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Hr. HiTz. As best you can recall, what did the resolution say ? 
Mr. Berecz. Well, it contained about the registering of the Com- 
munist Party as a foreign agent and registering of its officers as the 
foreign agents. 
Mr. Hjtz. Under what provision of the law, if any ? 
Mr. Berecz. The Smith Act and the McCarran Act. 
Mr. HiTz. What did it say about the registration ? 
Mr. Berecz. Well, at that time, he just said that they will take it up 
with the lawyers and decide what they were going to do, if they were 
going to register or if they were not going to register. 

Mr. HiTz. Did he say what the recommendation of the lawyers 
was with respect to registering ? 
Mr. Berecz. No, sir, not over here. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you remember anything else in the resolution ? 
Mr. Berecz. Also, the resolution called for Mortimer Scheer, who 
had some disagreement — and in fact, three members of the Buffalo 
area people had disagreement with the national committee — and he 
wanted the three members to get in line with the national committee's 
policy or else we would have to do something about them. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did he name the other two besides Mortimer Scheer ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, he did. 
Mr. HiTz. Wliom did he name ? 

Mr. Berecz. He named Edward Wolkenstein and Walter Zvaleko. 
Mr. HiTZ. Did he say what would happen to those three members of 
the Buffalo area branch of the Communist Party if they didn't get in 
line with the national policy ? 

Mr. Berecz. He said that they would have to be expelled from the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did any others of those present speak upon the resolu- 
tion or on the remarks of Mr. Davis ? 
Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 
Mr. HiTz. Who spoke first ? 



1546 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz. Edward Wolkenstein spoke first, and he stated that the 
National Committee of the Communist Party is the one that is ruining 
the Communist Party, not the Erie County Communist Party. In 
other words, they had some disagreement, and the national committee 
claimed that the Buffalo area Communist Party was the one that was 
ruining the Communist Party. And Wolkenstein stated that it wasn't 
the Buffalo party, it was the national Commmiist Party that was 
ruining it, and the leaders. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you remember any more of the details of what Mr. 
Wolkenstein said in that regard ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, Mr. Wolkenstein said quite a few things at that 
time. He stated that he was born in the Communist Party and he 
would like to die in it, but Mr. Ben Davis had otlier ideas. He said he 
might have been born in it, but he wasn't going to die in it unless he 
fell in line with the national committee. 

Mr. HiTz. Who spoke next ? 

Mr. Berecz. As I recollect, I think it was Walter Zvaleko who spoke 
next. He didn't have too much to say. He said he won't go along with 
the national committee and he wasn't going to change his attitude 
towards it. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you recall what was the difference between the policy 
of the national group as distinguished from the Buffalo group that 
you were in ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, the national group took the idea to lay back and 
let the registration business go by, and I think the Buffalo group 
wanted a more militant, more aggressive Communist Party, and that 
is what they were dickering for. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlio was the principal spokesman of the group that, you 
say, was the more militant group ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, Mortimer Scheer was the principal speaker. 

Mr. HiTz. As leader of the Buffalo branch in Erie County ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you recall who spoke next in this meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. I laiow Mr. Sporn spoke, and he accused Ben Davis of 
not reading the resolution the way it was, but he was making up his 
own. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that Paul Sporn ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. What did he do when he said that he did not think that 
Mr. Davis was reading the resolution but was making it up ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he even took it, he looked at it, and lie didn't do 
anything else about it. 

Mr. HiTz. You said he took it ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. From where? 

Mr. Berecz. From next to Ben Davis, and he was looking at it. I 
don't know if he read the whole thing or not, but he looked at it anyway. 

Mr. HiTz. "Wliat did he say ? 

Mr. Berecz. He didn't say nothing. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did Bea Berman have anything to say ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, Bea Berman — they all praised Mortimer Scheer 
that he did a wonderful job in this area for the Communist Party, and 
they couldn't see why the Communist Party would have to fire him as 
an organizer in this area. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1547 

Mr, HiTz. Was there a lady named Lumpkin there ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Can you spell her last name and give us her first name ? 

Mr. Berecz. L-u-m-p-k-i-n. 

Mr. HiTz. What was her first name? 

Mr. Berecz. I only know her as Hattie; that's the only way I know 
her. I don't know any other name. 

Mr. PIiTZ. Did Bea Berman have anything to say that you can recall 
at the meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, she said that Mortimer Scheer did a good job 
among the Negro people in the city of Buffalo and she couldn't see 
why the party, say, Ben Davis would have to come down here and 
get rid of him as an organizer in this area. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Did Hattie Lumpkin have anything to say to that? 

Mr. Berecz. Hattie Lumpkin said the same thing, that he did a 
good job, and she just couldn't understand it. She had been in the 
party so long, and she was tired that night, that she had picked grapes 
all day, and she had to go home and rest and think this over. 

Mr. HiTz. Did Ben Davis have anything to say to Bea Berman's 
comments about Mr. Scheer's work in that regard ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mr. Ben Davis made the statement that — I don't know 
how that statement came about, but Mr. Ben Davis said that Mortimer 
Scheer misled the Negro people in this area, not helped them. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did anyone of the Buffalo or Erie County group at this 
meeting have anything to say in criticism of their organizer or their 
chairman, Mr. Scheer? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there was only Marty Zelman that said anything 
about him or Anthony Massa, because those were the two guys that 
were opposing the rest of the group. 

Mr. HiTZ. But did they say anything against him ? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't recall right now, offhand, sir, what they said 
about him; they were discussing it, but I don't recall the discussion 
on it. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, did you establish an approximate day or date 
when this meeting took place? 

Mr. HiTz. He established the date as in the month of October 1961 ; 
am I correct, Mr. Berecz? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

jSIr. HiTZ. What did Mr. Davis have to say after these members of 
the local group had spoken ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he asked what they were going to do. Pie was 
proud of Mortimer Scheer, and he was the guy that helped him get his 

Mr. HiTZ. You said Davis said he was proud of Mr. Scheer? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. Go ahead. 

Mr. Berecz. But he was sorry that at this time, if they didn't fall 
in line, that he would have to expel the three of them, which was 
Mortimer Scheer, Ed Wolkenstein, and Walter Zvaleko. 

Mr. HiTz. And what took place then ? 

Mr. Berecz. He also invited the rest that if they wanted to leave 
with Scheer that they could leave. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat took place then ? 



1548 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz, Well, there was most of the group, one with Mortimer 
Scheer which included Richard and Gertrude Alexander. 

Mr, HiTz. Let me interrupt you just a moment. Do you recall the 
two Schwartzes, Mr. and Mrs. Schwartz, being present at the meetings ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you remember whether or not Mr. Davis attempted 
to get the feeling and the views of the people present at the meeting 
as to whether or not Mr. Scheer and the other two should be expelled 
from the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I more or less, I think he knew; the meeting 
went that they were sticking with Mortimer Scheer, that they would 
go with him, and I think that is the reason he made the statement if 
anybody wanted to leave with Mortimer Scheer, they could go with 
him. 

Mr. HiTz. Did Mr. Davis propose a vote to the assembled company 
as to whether or not their expulsion of those three individuals should 
be carried ? 

Mr. Berecz. Somebody else proposed it; not Mr. Davis, somebody 
else did. I don't recall who it was. 

Mr. HiTz. "VVliat was the action on that proposal ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, if the action would have carried out, Mr. Scheer 
would have stayed on as organizer, but Mr. Davis did not go along 
with it. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was there a meeting in the following month of November 
1961, attended by a Communist Party official from New York City, 
that you attended ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wlio was the official ? 

Mr. Berecz. Louis Weinstock. 

Mr. HiTz. IVhere was this meeting held ? 

Mr. Berecz. It was held in Everett Jones' place on Merrimac Street, 
right across from the University of Buffalo. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlio was present at that meeting ? 

Mr. Berecz. Anthony Massa was there, Marty Zelman, and a fellow 
by the name of Michael Clune. 

Mr. HiTz. What was the purpose of that meeting, Mr. Berecz? 

Mr. Berecz. The purpose of the meeting was the McCarran Act, 
the registering of the Communist Party ; and they were on the dead- 
line. They did not have too much time to go. I think it was the 
following day that they had to register the Communist Party as foreign 
agents, and also the leaders of the Communist Party would have to 
register, so he talked on the McCarran Act and he gave the members 
of the party a resume of tliat decision that they made at the national 
committee, that they were not going to register. He stated that they 
had lawyers from all over the country and they were advised to 
register, as such, but the committee decided that they were not going 
to do this, and they were not going to register. 

Mr. HiTz. Instead, what were they going to do ; did he say ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, instead, they were just going to let it go by. 
They were going to cut back the leadership to three — Elizabeth Flynn, 
Gus Hall, and Ben Davis, and he was on then as labor secretary of 
the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1549 

Mr. HiTZ. Was Mr. Davis present at the second meeting in Novem- 
ber of 1961? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir, just Louis Weinstock. 

Mr. HiTZ. I want to take you baclv to the October meeting of 1961 
that you have told us about, at which Ben Davis was present and also 
Mr. Weinstock ; am I correct ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you recall a remark made by someone present from 
the Erie County group which caused a response from Mr. Davis to 
the effect that, who would go to jail ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, nobody made the remark. He was asked a ques- 
tion on whose authority would he fire Mortimer Scheer and he said 
that, in case they did not comply with the law and it came that some- 
body would have to go to jail, it wouldn't be Mortimer Scheer who 
would go to jail, but it would be him, Gus Hall, Elizabeth Flynn, that 
would have to go to jail. 

Mr. HiTz. Davis said that ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. To whom did he say that ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he said it to the group. 

Mr. HiTZ. Had Sclieer just said something that caused that remark 
from Mr. Davis ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr.HiTz. What was that? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't recall the remark that he made to him. 

Mr. HiTz. Did anyone present at this October 1961 meeting contest 
the right of Mr. Davis to write out of the Conmiunist Party the three 
individuals whom he had named as being ones who were working 
against the national policy ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there was Gertrude Alexander who questioned 
Mr. Davis' authority. 

Mr. HiTZ. Explain what was said that caused her to question the 
authority and what, in turn, was said back to her ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there was quite a few things said. To begin with, 
she wanted to know why they couldn't wait so the Communist Party 
would have a conference or convention to get rid of Mortimer Scheer 
as an organizer in this area, and Mr. Davis made the statement on this 
that it might be a day, maybe a week, 1 year, maybe 5 years, or maybe 
never that they would have a convention, and that is why he is here 
to do this job, and he is going to do it. 

Mr. HiTz. Do what job ? 

Mr. Berecz. To expel Mortimer Scheer, because he works against 
the national committee. 

Mr. HiTz. To that, did Gertrude Alexander have anything to say ; 
did she question Mr. Davis' authority to say what he had said and to 
do what he said he might do ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, she wanted to know on what authority he would 
do this, and Mr. Davis said he was the boss and he is going to do it, 
he was going to expel the three of them. He announced it at the meet- 
ing that they were expelled from the Communist Party. 

Mr. HiTZ. And did he then make some remarks concerning Mr. 
Sporn and the two Alexanders ? 



1550 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz. Well, he made the remark that if anybody wanted to 
leave, they can leave with Mortimer Scheer and Mr. Wolkenstein and 
Walter Zvaleko. 

Mr. HiTz. You remained in the party after that in this area, sir? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Up to that time, v/ere you in any group in the Erie County 
party with Mr. Wolkenstein, Mr. Scheer, Mr. Zvaleko ? 

Mr. Berecz. I was only in the Communist Party with them. 

Mr. HiTz. Did any of those three again appear at a Communist 
Party meeting in this area ? 

Mr. Berecz. Not to my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did Mr. Sporn? 

Mr. Berecz. Not to my knowledge ; I haven't seen him. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. or Mrs. Alexander ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you recall whether or not some months before the two 
meetings that you have told us about, in October or November of 1961, 
the Communist Party''- case had been considered and decided in the 
Supreme Court ; do you know what I mean by the Communist Party 
case ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, that was the case in front of the Subversive 
Board. 

Mr. PIiTz. That is the one I am referring to. Are you aware of that 
case? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Had it been decided some time shortly before the two 
meetings in October of 1961 about which you have testified? 

Mr. Berecz. Plow do you mean, sir, was it "decided" ? 

Mr. HiTZ. Had there been a Court decision prior to the meeting of 
October 1961, in which registration of the party and the members of 
the party was discussed ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. You told us that you joined the party in 1916 in this 
Buffalo area ; is that correct, sir ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you recall in 1950 the Internal Security Act was 
passed ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you remember that it was passed ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What changes, if any, in the security measures taken 
by the members of the Communist Party took place after the passing 
of the Internal Security Act ? 

Mr. Berecz. Oh, they more or less went underground and they 
stayed underground. They would only meet at certain places and 
not more than four at a time, or if there was any more than that, 
well, it was at a private home most of the time. 

Mr. HiTz. In what fashion were the names of the members of the 
party recorded ? 

Mr. Berecz. When you pay dues or something, you use numbers 
or they just use your nationality or how long you ha^ e been in the 
party or the union afliliations that you were tied up with. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1551 

Mr. HiTz. Are you familiar with the means by which the literature 
of the Communist Party was distributed in the Bullalo area while you 
were a member ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. How is it distributed t 

Mr. Berecz. For the security of the party, they used, the paper 
used to come to one post office box and one person handled it, and 
it was taken to their clubs and, when the members got it, they put it 
in brown paper bags, and tliat is the way it got delivered. 

Mr. HiTz. Is what you have said also applicable to the receipt in 
this area of the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. At that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who was in charge of the receipt of the literature within 
the Communist Party in the latter part of 1961 ? 

]Mr. Berecz. I was told that Paul Sporn was the literature and edu- 
cational director of the Communist Party of Erie County. 

Mr. HiTZ. And who was in charge of the receipt of the Communist 
Party literature in the area ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mortimer Scheer. 

Mr. HiTz. Was he in charge of that at the time of the meeting in 
October 19G1 at wdiich he was read out of the Communist Party by 
Mr. Davis? 

Mr. Berecz. Up until that time, yes. 

Mr. HiTz. And just exactly how did you receive that mail ? 

Mr. Berecz. He had a post office box at the post office, and that's 
how he received it, and at this meeting, from then on, the Daily 
'Worker and — and the following meeting which we had with Mr. 
Weinstock, it was stated how bad it was for Mortimer Scheer that 
he did not distribute the Daily Worker to the members of the party in 
this area when it was held in a post office box. 

Mr. HiTz. Did he have a key to the box ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mortimer Scheer did, yes. 

Mr. HiTz. When he was expelled from the Communist Party, did 
he turn the key over to the party or any of its officials right away ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What did that cause? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, it caused a lot of disturbance, because the paper 
wasn't received then or the literature. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did they finally get the key away from Mr, Scheer ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir ; we gave up the mail box. 

Mr. HiTz. What happened to ih& Daily Worker? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know what they did with it. 

Mr. HiTz. Did it continue to arrive in this area ? 

Mr. Berecz. After that, yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you recall the nam.es of any persons assigned to the 
youth work of the Communist Party in Erie County ? 

Mr. Berecz. There was Mortimer Scheer assigned to it. He 
handled the youth, and Anthony Massa handled it for a while. There 
were different people assigned to that group of work. 

Mr. HiTz. At tlie time that you left the party in 1962, were you 
aware of the strategy of the party with i-espect to assignments within 
the youth movement ? 



1552 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Berecz. Well, they talked about it, but it's never gotten any- 
place, never got off the ground. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wlien you left, were you aware of any efforts to teach 
among the youth Marxist-Leninist principles ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir ; that was the idea, to get into the youth group 
and try, not right away — work yourself in and try to teach Marxist- 
Leninist ideas to them. 

Mr. HiTz. Did they make any efforts to accomplish this in the latter 
part of the time that you were a member ? 

Mr. Berecz. They tried several times, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. In what way ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, trying to get into different organizations like the 
peace movement, fair housing, racial matters; they tried to get into 
all these organizations. They claimed to help, but their idea was to 
get in there and then advocate the communistic ideas. 

Mr. Hjtz. Were you familiar in the party, in the latter part of your 
membership in the party, with the way in which the party sought to 
handle the matter of disarmament ? 

Mr. Berecz. They had a coimnittee on it, that tliey should stop 
nuclear bomb tests, and different things like that. They had a com- 
mittee working. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you recall Mr. Weinstock from New York City speak- 
ing to the Communist Party members of this area on that subject? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't recall about it, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. What efforts did the Commmiist Party in this area en- 
deavor to take with regard to nuclear testing ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, they also had a committee which consisted of 
Gertrude Alexander and Eichard Alexander and Abe Copperman 
and Ann Copperman. Ann Copperman and Abe Copperman lived 
in what they called the Sheridan project, and they were passing out 
leaflets and they were pressing them on just when Russia exploded 
a 50-megaton bomb. And they got kind of peeved that they were 
passing out leaflets to stop it, and Russia went ahead and exploded 
the bomb. And from that time on, they weren't such good members 
of the Connnunist Party. They said that Khrushchev hollered to 
stop it and then he went ahead when the United States stopped it, 
and then he went ahead and exploded it, and they claimed, they 
claimed he was untrustable. 

Mr.HiTZ. Who said that? 

Mr. Berecz. Abe Copperman and Ann Copperman, and they wanted 
to know from Mr. Massa, why did he do that ; and Massa answered 
him that he couldn't give him an answer that day, but he will give it 
whenever they get in touch with somebody from New York, and they 
will tell us. So a couple of weeks later, he [Massa] told us that Khru- 
shchev said that the free nations were against him and that they were 
doing it in secret and that is why he had to test the 50-megaton bomb. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were any members of the Communist Party in Erie 
County assigned to work with the Women Strike for Peace? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, they were. 

Mr. HiTz. And the Women's International League for [Peace and] 
Freedom ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. They were in that grou]). 

Mr. HiTz. Who were assigned to assist in that work ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1553 

Mr. Berecz. To my recollection, Bea Berman, Rose Touralchuk, 
Mrs. Zelman, old Mrs. Zelman — I do not know her first name. 

Mr. HiTz. The senior Mrs. Zelman ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was Gertrude Alexander engaged in that work ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did the Erie County Communist Party assume any at- 
titude with respect to the Vietnam and Cuba problems ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, they just advocated giving a free hand to Cuba, 
that they are doing the right thing, and that the United States should 
not interfere with them at all. 

Mr. HiTz. And as to Vietnam ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I don't know too much about that. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr, Berecz, did you ever find yourself at a meeting of 
a group of the Erie County Communist Party at which you were 
the only man ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. How did that come about and where did it happen ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I was assigned to the Tonawanda Club, and 
at the time that the meeting was held 

Mr. HiTz. Slow down, please. At the Tonawanda Club ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. And Mrs. Massa told me about — Gloria 
Massa told me about the meeting and asked me if I wanted to go, and 
I said, "Yes," and we went to Joe Pranis' home off Sheridan Drive 
some place; I don't Imow the street, and there was a meeting held 
there for the Tonawanda Club, and I was the only male person at 
the place at the time. 

Mr. Hjtz. Wlio presided ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mrs. Massa. 

Mr. HiTz. How many ladies were present ? 

Mr. Berecz. I believe there were four or five. 

Mr. HiTz. Was Helen Schwartz there ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was she the wife of Tobias Schwartz, also known as 
Ted Schwartz ? 

Mr. Berecz, Well, I only know him as Schwartz, that's the only 
way I know him. 

Mr. HiTz, Was Mr. Pranis at home that evening ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliere was he ? 

Mr. Berecz. Working. 

Mr. Hrrz. Wliere? 

Mr. Berecz. At the General Motors Chevy Plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was there a discussion held at that time as to the assign- 
ment within the party 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. — of Helen Schwartz ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who said it and what was said ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mrs. Massa told her that she would have to go into the 
Professional Club, what they called a Professional Club of the Com- 
munist Party, and she stated that she did not want to go in there be- 



1554 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

cause her husband was in there already and sh.e did not want to be in 
the same chib with her husband. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know, Mr. Berecz, what caused Mr. Schwartz to 
be in the Professional Club ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Berecz, do you know Vvhat group Helen Schwartz 
was assigned to ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know whether or not she was assigned to the 
Professional Club ? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't know what happened to her after that. 

Mr. HiTZ. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Chairman, I think this would be an appropriate time to break, 
as you had asked me to suggest to you. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

( Wliereupon, at 12 :30 p.m., Wednesday, April 29, 1964, the subcom- 
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, APRIL 29, 1964 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chairman 
of the subcommittee, presiding) . 

(Subcommittee members present: Eepresentatives Pool, Johansen, 
Ichord, and Ashbrook. ) 

Mr. Pool. The subconnnittee will be in order. 

Mr. Berecz, you are still under oath and counsel will proceed with 
questions, 

TESTIMONY OF ANDEEW J. BEBECZ— Sesiimed 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Berecz, you testified before the Imicheon recess that 
you attended a Communist Party meeting of the Erie County branch 
in October of 1961, attended by Mr. Davis of the party, coming from 
New York, and also jMr. Weinstock, and that certain things occurred 
there resulting in Mr. Scheer's, l^Ir. Wolkonstein's, and Mr. Zvaleko's 
expulsion from the party and certain other ones whom you named being 
told that if they did not like the expulsion of the others, they could 
leave, too. You also mentioned a number of others who were present 
at that time, at that meeting and, as to some of them, what they said 
that you could recall. Among those persons, you named Bea and Max 
Berman, Marty and Dottie Zelman, Tony and Gloria Massa, Sy 
Rudner, and some others, including a m.an named Paul Sporn. Do you 
recall that testimony this morning ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that the last time you were at any Communist meeting 
that you saw Paul Sporn ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Yfould you tell us whether you had ever seen him before 
at a Communist Party m.eeting ? 

Mr. Berecz. I had one occasion to see him where he was pointed out 
to me. I did not know Mr. Sporn up to that time. Mr. Tony Massa 
pointed him out to me. 



COM^SIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1555 

Mr. IIiTz. Just a moment. Let's try and place this in time. How 
much before the October 19G1 meeting was it that you saw Mr. Sporn 
for the tirst time? 

Mr. Berecz. Just a couple of weeks. 

Mr. HiTZ. What sort of a gathering was it ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, it was on the same question, the Communist Party 
had troubles. 

Mr. HiTz. What kind of a gathering was it ; who was there ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, party members. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Was it a closed party meeting ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Tell us who was there and where it was. 

]Mr. Berecz. It was at Levine's, Louis Levine's house on Grant Street 
some place. 

Mr. IIiTz. L-e-v-i-n-e ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you name some of those who were there ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I remember Mr. Massa being there with me, be- 
cause he Vv-as with nxe, and Mr. Zelman was there. I don't recall some 
of them. 

Mr. HiTz. With whom did you go to this meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. With Mr. Massa. 

Mr. HiTz. Tony Massa ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Who was head of the party in the Erie County area at 
that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. Who was what, sir? 

Mr. HiTz. The head of the party. 

Mr. Berecz. Mortimer Scheer. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was he there ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you name others whom you may recall as being 
there? 

Mr. Bepxcz. I don't recall any more names. 

Mr. HiTz. Was Mr. Sporn there ? 

Mr . B ere c z . Yes , s i r . 

Mr. HiTz. You have already said that when you next before— and 
the only other time was the October meeting, that you ever did see 
him ; is that right ? 

Mr. Berecz. Eight. 

Mr. HiTz. What was discussed at the meeting ? 

Mr. Berecz. I don't recall really what it actually was, but it was 
the future of the Communist Party in this area. 

Mr. Ilrrz. Was anything discussed with reference to the party 
policy that you all understood was being made in New York City? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, that was on the same project. 

]Mr. HiTz. That there was a conflict between the policy here and 
the policy of the national committee? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. And New York City ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 



1556 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. Was that discussion on the same subject that resulted 
later, in October 1961, in the expulsion of Mr. Scheer, Mr. Wolken- 
stein, and Mr. Zvaleko ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. Was any attack made upon Mr. Scheer and his policy in 
the Erie County branch ? 

Mr. Berecz. Not that I recall, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Was any defense made of his policy ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, they are always defending his policy in this 
area. 

Mr. HiTZ. I see. And you say Tony Massa pointed him out to you? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, because I did not know Mr. Sporn. I heard about 
Mr. Sporn, so I asked — I did not know him, and Tony Massa showed 
me who he was. 

Mr. HiTZ. In what fashion was Mr. Sporn pointed out to you ; by 
that I mean, what caused the designation of Mr. Sporn in the conversa- 
tion you had with Mr. Massa ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, being a literature director and educational di- 
rector of the party here, I heard members talking about him, so I 
asked who he was. I did not know the man personally, so I asked for 
him to be pointed out to me. 

Mr. HiTz. You asked that of whom ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mr. Massa. 

Mr. HiTZ. What did he say ? 

Mr. Berecz. He pointed him out to me. 

Mr. HiTz. Getting on to a slightly different subject, you have told 
us about the expulsion of Mr. Scheer from the party at this October 
expulsion meeting in 1961. "V\nio succeeded in the operation of the 
party in the Erie County branch after that ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mr, Davis appointed Tony Massa, Marty Zelman, Sy 
Rudner, and Hattie Lumpkin, and I don't recall the rest who was there. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you mention Marty Zelman ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Did Hattie Lumpkin accept the nomination as one of the 
officers in the area ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, she did not. 

Mr. HiTz. Was this designation of these three or more persons — 
there were three, were there not — designations made by Mr. Davis? 

Mr. Berecz. Four, to my knowledge. 

Mr. HiTz. To run the party in Erie County ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Was this a new concept of management of the branch 
from what it had been before ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Before that, it had been an organization operated and 
run by 

Mr. Berecz. Scheer, and then the secretariat was formed with four 
people. 

Mr. HiTz. Repeat the last. 

Mr. Berecz. The four people would be the head of the party, and 
they would be running the policy of the party in the Erie County area. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1557 

Mr. HiTZ. Prior to that, there had been a single chairman ; had there 
not? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. And that was Scheer, immediately preceding these four? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. Up until the time that you left the party in 1962, was this 
group of persons running the party in the Erie County branch ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, there were some changes made when Mr. Patter- 
son came down here from New York, and he took Anthony Massa out 
of the secretariat, because the national committee thought that Tony 
Massa was antagonistic with some of the members and they were los- 
ing some members, so they said, "Take him off from the secretariat," 
and they replaced him with somebody else. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you know what Mr. Patterson's position in the party 
wn sat that time? 

Mr. Berecz. I know that he was a secretary of New York State. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know whether he held a national office in the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I think that was the New York State secretary. 

Mr. HiTZ. I see. Just one question. I have to go back. You men- 
tioned that the Industrial Club to which you belonged in 1946 until 
about 1958 or '59 finally had a reduced membership prior to your being 
assigned to the Tonawanda neighborhood club; am I correct in that? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. What was the greatest number of members that the In- 
dustrial Club had while you were a member ? 

Mr. Berecz. About 20 people. 

Mr. HiTz. Can you tell us what caused the reduction in its member- 
ship that resulted in the change in policy to neighborhood clubs ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, that was the change of policy of the party, when 
the party was under attack, so they were doing away with big clubs, 
they were forming the community clubs. 

Mr. HiTz. In 1957, Mr. Berecz, were you named as a member of the 
Communist Party in the Erie County branch, in a hearing before the 
Un-American Activities Committee right here in Buffalo ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlio identified you in 1957 as a member of the party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Mr. Charles Regan. 

Mr. Hrrz. R-e-g-a-n ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that a public hearing, public testimony ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Was that the first public identification as a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Publicly ; yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you an ideological member of the Communist 
Party at the time ; do you know what I mean ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir, I never was, and that is, I never was an 
idealist. 

Mr. HiTZ. I asked you, Do you know what I mean by an ideological 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, I know. 



1558 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr, HiTz. You were, up to tliat time, in the Communist Party arf 
a member at the request of the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. At this time, I am speaking now of 1957 when you were 
identified, and by the way, can you give us the month of the year? 

Mr. Beekcz. October or September ; one of tliose months. 

Mr. Hrrz. Late in the year ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you doing any community work wholly apart from 
your Communist Party work at this time? 

Mr. Berecz. You mean on my own ? 

Mr. Hrrz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you a Scoutmaster for the Boy Scouts ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. How long had you been in 195T ? 

Mr. Berecz. I took the group in 1957 and I was in it until 1962. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you active in your church work ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. After you were publicly identified as a member of the 
Communist Party, did you make any effort to square yourself with 
those you knew or who knew you, to the extent that you stated to 
anyone that you were not a member of the Communist Party ideologi- 
cally, but that you were working in the Conniiunist Party for the Fed- 
eral Bureau of Investigation and for your country ? 

Mr. Berecz. I did not go into why I was working. I went to the 
priest and told him, as a Catholic, I told them that I wasn't a Com- 
munist, that I was doing a job and maybe in a year's time, I could tell 
them. At that time, I could give them no more information, and 
I did not. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you do anything with respect to remaining as a Scout- 
master in your community after your public identification? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I offered to resign, and they told me I shouldn't 
resign, but I should stay on as Scoutmaster. 

Mr. HiTZ. A]id did you stay on ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Berecz, do you have children ? 

Mr. Berkcz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Httz. How many do you have ? 

Mr. Berecz. Two boys. 

Mr. HiTz. How old are they ? 

Mr. Berecz. One is 23 and one is 18. 

Mr. HiTz. Do they go to school in this area ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes. 

Mr. Hrrz. Where do they go ? 

Mr. Berecz. One goes to State Teachers College and one goes to 
Niagara Falls to Community College. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did one of them go to the University of Buffalo until 
recently ? 

Mr. Berecz. He Avas there for a half year. 

Mr. Hnz. At the time in 1957 when you were identified publicly as 
a member of the Communist Party, did you inform your children that 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1559 

you had been in the party only at the request of the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 
Mr. PIiTZ. You told your children ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 
Mr. HiTz. Did you tell your wife ? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 
Mr. HiTz. She knew it before ? 

Mr. Berecz. My wife knew it right from the beginning. 
Mr. HiTz. Did you tell anyone else ? 
Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. Hrrz. Did you ever suffer any hardship or problems as the 
result of the public identification and your failure or refusal to make 
known that you were working for the FBI when you were doing this? 
Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. What were the problems that arose in that regard ? 
Mr. Berecz. From neighbors and from other people, as they 
thought I was actually belonging to the Communist Party, and they 
were kind of hard on us, thinking that we were actually Communists. 
Mr. Hrrz. How long did you remain in that situation, that is, not 
divulging publicly that your membership in the Communist Party 
was at the request of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 
Mr. Berecz. Pardon? 

Mr. HiTz. How long did you remain in that situation, not telling 
people that your membership in the Communist Party was at the 
request of the FBI ? 

Mr. Berecz. Right from 1042 to 1962. 

Mr. HiTZ. I am sorry. I did not make myself clear. You were 
identified in 1957 ; right ? 
Mr. Berecz. Right. 

Mr. Hrrz. You did not make known, except to your wife who al- 
ready knew and your children whom you then told, that you were a 
member of the Communist Party working for the FBI ; right ? 
Mr. Berecz. Right. 
Mr. HiTz. You told no one else ? 
Mr. Berecz. No one else. 

Mr. PIrrz. And by the way, when you spoke to your priest, did you 
tell him that you were working for the FBI ? 
Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Only that you would tell him later what the situation 
really was ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 
Mr. HiTz. How long did that persist ? 
Mr. Berecz. Five years. 
Mr. HiTZ. What took place 5 years after ? 

Mr. Berecz. I was called to testify in front of the Subversive Board 
in New York City. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that the Subversive Activities Control Board ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. A Federal board having to do with inte; iial secirity ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. And created by the act ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

36-414—64 4 



1560 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. When did you first testify before the Board ? 

Mr.BERECz. 1962, October the 5th. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you testify in three proceedings before the Board, 
one of them concerning when you testified about Betty Gannett, Louis 
Wein stock? 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, he testified in 1962 or '63 ? 

Mr. Hrrz. You said in 1962 you testified on tliree occasions before 
the Subversive Activities Control Board, in the third case, involving 
William Patterson ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Berecz. Patterson, the first case, Betty Gannett and Weinstock. 

Mr. HiTz. In that order ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr.HiTz. All in 1962? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. At that time, were they public hearings, sir ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Were they proceedings that were brought by the Attorney 
General, again before the S ACB ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. They were public hearings ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Was it brought out then that your membership in the 
Communist Party from 1946 until that time was at the request of the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that the first time that that was publicly disclosed ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. For 5 years ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. liiTz. And thus, you remained a member of the party in such 
a situation until what day and what year? 

Mr. Berecz. In '62, October the 5th; my party membership was 
severed when I testified the first day. 

Mr. HiTz. On the witness stand? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IIiTz. You say that you ran into some problems when it was 
made known that you were a member of the Communist Party. Did 
you suffer any unfortunate situations or run into any problems after 
it was divulged that you had been in the Communist Party but that 
you were working for the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Berecz. Well, I got some telephone calls and some letters sent to 
me that aren't worth mentioning, but outside of that there was nothing 
else. 

Mr. HiTz. What did the telephone calls and the letters call you and 
say that you were ? 

Mr. Berecz. They called me Judas and everything else, all kinds of 
names. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you very much, Mr. Berecz. I have no further 
questions. 

It may be that the chairman of the subcommittee has some questions. 

Mr. icHORD. Mr. Chairman, I have one or two questions. Mr. 
Berecz, this meeting in October of 1961 was where Mortimer Scheer 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1561 

appeared, and did I understand you to say that it was the October 
meeting that Paul Sporn was present? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. And he did speak at that meeting ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. Now, it was brought out in the testimony that Charles 
Regan identified you as a member of the Communist Party before 
this committee in 1957. Who was Charles Regan ? 

Mr. Berecz. Charles Regan was also an undercover agent for the 
FBI. 

Mr. IcHORD. That is all I have at this time. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. This meeting, was this a closed party meeting? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. That is all I have. 

Mr. AsHBROOK. You were associated with one labor organization. 
Did you, under oath, say you were associated or not associated with 
the Progressive Labor Movement in any way ? 

Mr. Berecz. That I was associated with the union ? 

Mr. AsHBRooK. Workingmen's organization within the Communist 
Party, and I wondered if you were at any time, during any of this 
time you were undercover agent for the FBI, associated with the 
Progressive Labor Movement ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Chairman, I do have one or two more questions. 
Mr. Berecz, how old were you when you came to the United States? 

Mr. Berecz. Seventeen, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. And did you go to work for American Radiator Com- 
pany at that time ? 

Mr. Berecz. When I was 19 years old, I went to work for them. 

Mr. IcHORD. Are you a member of the union at the present time? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. What is your trade, sir ? What do you do at American 
Radiator ? 

Mr. Berecz. I am called a tester and a chipper. Like the radiators 
that you have in the house, you test them with water and air. 

Mr. IcHORD. You work on an assembly line ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IcHORD. And you are a dues-paying member of the CIO ? 

Mr. Berecz. Yes, sir, Local 1199. 

Mr. IcHORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. I want to make a statement here at this time. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt? I have one question. 

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Berecz, at the time that you were in the Communist 
Party working as you have indicated for the Federal Bureau of In- 
vestigation, did you know Charles Regan ? 

Mr. Berecz. I know him from the Communist Party ; yes, sir. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you know him at that time as one also working for 
the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Berecz. No, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Berecz, I want to say this to you — Mr. Berecz, be- 
fore you leave the witness stand, I wish to express to you not only 



1562 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

my own deep personal thanks and appreciation for the service you 
have rendered, but also the appreciation of all members of the Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities. I believe I can go further than 
that and say that I can express to you the gratitude, thanks, and 
appreciation of all but a tiny minority of the people of this country — 
and you know well who that tiny minority is and why it would never 
thank anyone for a patriotic service. 

You, of course, have been and will be called all kinds of names. You 
have been and will be attacked and vilified by certain people. I hope 
that this does not bother you in the least and that, on the contrary, you 
accept it proudly as a badge of honor. 

You have already — and with gross unfairness — been called a "paid 
informer." Traditionally, the word "informer" has connoted a 
squealer or a low, despicable person who betrays — to their oppressors — 
good, decent, and brave people who are fighting for liberty and freedom 
for themselves and all others victimized by their oppressors. Your 
role has been the very opposite of that. You have been working for 
all the good and decent people of this country. To save them and this 
Nation from the criminal conspirators who would oppress them and 
destroy this, the greatest of democracies, you have — at great risk and 
hardship to yourself — supplied important intelligence information to 
a duly constituted security agency of your country. 

For this, you deserve only praise. "Y ou came to this country in 1929 
at the age of 15. You have lived in this coimtry for 35 vears and vou 
have spent 20 of them — most of them and most of your adult life — 
giving to your adopted land, sacrificing for its people in this very 
special way. 

One fact is clear in my mind — and, I am sure, clear in the minds of 
practically everyone in this room and in this city. And that is that you 
are far superior to, and have done far more for your country, far more 
for freedom and decency, than any of your detractors have ever done 
or will do. I say this despite the positions of prestige and influence 
held by some of them and the holier-than-thou postures they adopt. 

I know you have been hurt by the service you have performed. Your 
wife has been hurt ; your children have been hurt. From 1957 to 1962 — 
from the time you were publicly identified as a Communist imtil you 
testified before the Subversive Activities Control Board — most people 
in this connnunity — good Americans too — doubted your loj^altj^ or con- 
sidered you a traitor. Now that your full story has been told before 
the Subversive Activities Control Board and here, the appreciation of 
3^our fellow countrymen will, I believe, erase the bitter memories of 
those past years. 

It is my sincere hope that for the remainder of your life you will 
enjoy the rewards, the honor, and the gratitude of the American people, 
which you deserve for a job so well done. 

Witness excused. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. Pool. We are not going to have any further demonstrations. 
Mr. Marshal, if I have any further disturbances, you have your 
direction. 

Mr. Gibson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to renew my request. 

Mr. Pool. Yo li are not recojniizcd. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1563 

Mr. GiBSOx. Earlier, you said I could. My witness' name was men- 
tioned by this witness. 

Mr. Pool. ]Mr. Counsel, call the next witness. 

Mr. HiTZ. We would now like to call Mr. Paul Sporn. I ask him 
to step to the stand. 

TESTIMOITY OF PAUL SPOEK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
lEA GOLLOBIN 

Mr. Pool. ]Mr. Sporn 's request to use the tape recorder in the court- 
room is relayed to me through counsel. The request is denied. The 
official reporter is the court reporter who takes it on the stenotype, and 
that is the practice of the committee, and we are going to ask you to 
remove the recorder. Remove the recorder and take it out of the 
room. 

Mr. SroRKT. May I state the reason why I wanted the recorder ? 

Mr. Pool. Talk later on it. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. I have the right to make my request in person, not 
having it relayed through counsel, and I ask for the record to show 
that a request is made then for this recorder, which is not an outside 
instrument, to peraiit the witness to have a record of what is said and 
have it immediately available for him. I submit that this is a part of 
having a fair hearing in due process of law and in no way conflicts 
with the rules of this committee and as part of having a public hearing 
rather than a secret hearing. 

A Voice. That recorder is personal property. It has no right to 
be taken away. 

Mr. Pool. Marshal, if that man is not subpenaed, send him out of 
the room. 

A Voice. I am subpenaed. 

Mr. Pool. Escort him into other quarters. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. Am I to understand that it is not to be returned? 

A Voice. I am here at your request, not mine. 

Mr. Pool. Take him to another room. 

A Voice. How can I possibly testify if I cannot hear the testimony 
of the other witnesses ? 

Mr. Pool. You will have to keep quiet. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. May I have the return of the property? We will 
take it out of here, of course, but it belongs to an individual. It is not 
the property of the committee. 

Mr. Pool. It will be returned, certainly. 

Mr. Sporn. May I state the reasons why I brought that tape 
recorder ? 

Mr. Pool. Let's have your witness identified. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your Honor, I suggest that he be sworn and, within 
reason and a brief statement, I suggest that he be heard on this matter. 

Mr. Pool. All right. May the witness stand. 

Mr. Sporn. Before I am sworn, I would also like to make a motion 
to this committee on which I want a ruling. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel 

Mr. Sporn. The reason I asked for this motion to be made before I 
am sworn is that it is a motion contesting the legality of these hear- 



1564 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

ings, and if the motion is approved, then the swearing process is un- 
necessary. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Spom, you may make your brief statement before 
you are sworn. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to dispute 

Mr. Pool. Argue, Mr. Spom ? 

Mr. Sporn. I shall answer that question at the proper time, but I 
will give one of the gentlemen to the right of me my subpena. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, as counsel, I suggest that no one — even 
in the witness chair as Mr. Sporn is now seated, and I understand it 
is because I have called him as our next witness, and I ask that he 
seat himself in the witness chair — that no one be permitted to make 
a statement either before or after he is sworn unless we know who is 
making the statement. The individual who is in the chair I think 
should identify himself by name before he is permitted to speak. 

Mr. Pool. That is what I asked him to do. 

Mr. Sporn. My name is Mr. Sporn, but I want to make this motion 
on the legality of these hearings. 

Mr. Pool. State your full name; that is what we want to find out 
first. 

Mr. Sporn. My name is Paul Sporn. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed and make your statement. 

Mr. Sporn. The motion I am going to make, I contest the legality 
of these hearings for several reasons. The first is that Congress has 
no right to make legislation limiting freedom of speech or peaceable 
assembly, and as a consequence, this committee has no right to investi- 
gate in that area. That is my first reason. 

My second reason is that there are members of this conunittee who 
are illegally in Congress, in violation of the 14th amendment, members 
from States which prohibit American citizens from voting. The fact 
of the matter is that the chairman of the committee, Mr. Willis 

Mr. HiTZ. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I suggested that the only 
permission that he has to make a statement at this time is one of a 
brief and temperate statement of legal objection and that it shall not 
and cannot be argued to the committee. 

Mr. Sporn. My statement will be temperate. 

Mr. Pool. Listen to me just a minute. 

Mr. HiTZ. I suggest to the chairman that he is arguing the legal 
point rather than stating it. I do not feel that he is entitled to argue 
his legal point. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like, Mr. Pool, to make an informed point and 
that is why I am providing some reasons for it. 

Mr. Pool. State your point and let's get on. 

Mr. Sporn. I am stating it. There are members of this committee 
who are in Congress illegally because they come from States which 
prohibit citizens of this country from voting. The chairman of the 
committee 

Mr. Pool. We have heard that before. If you have another point, 
go ahead and make it. 

Mr. Sporn. Some members of the committee come from States in 
which only one third of the Negroes in their area are permitted to 
vote. There, in fact, is one member of the committee who comes from 
a State in which less than, in some districts, less than one percent of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1565 

the Negroes living there are permitted to vote. These members are 
illegal members of Congress. The Supreme Court has recently ruled 
on a series of cases, a scries of cases on representation, and as I say, 
these members are illegally in Congress and, therefore, this committee 
is illegally constituted for that reason also. That is my second reason. 

My third reason is that tliis committee in its investigation attempts 
to conduct itself as if this were a courtroom and as if criminal and 
illegal actions have been undertaken. If this is so, then under the 
sixth amendment, I have a right to a speedy trial and to be able to 
confront the people who are making the accusations through direct 
examination, cross-examination. This right is not being provided to 
me and, therefore, this committee is sitting illegally here today. That 
is my third reason. 

This is an illegal hearing also, because this is not a public hearing. 
At the beginning of this hearing, the request was made of the mem- 
bers of the committee present here today to move to a larger room. 
This request was denied. Tickets have been issued. No announce- 
ment was made that tickets would be issued to enter this room. This 
committee tries to create the illusion that there are people running 
away from it. If people are running away from it, who are they ? I 
want a larger room. I want more of the public in here. I hope you 
do too, and until you give in to this request, this is a fourth reason 
why this committee sits illegally. 

There is another reason why this committee is sitting illegally. 
There were two gentlemen, whom I shall not name because I am not 
going to name any names here today, handed me my subpena, and I 
asked them if the committee had a specific subject for this hearing. 
They told me that the committee had passed a proposal, but tliat they 
were not free to divulge the nature of that proposal to me. That reso- 
lution, in fact, was not read until this morning. In other words, the 
committee was not interested in having me come here thoroughly pre- 
pared for the purposes of this committee. They were merely willing 
to have me come here so that my name might be smeared. You are 
not at all interested in hearing what my views are. You are not at 
all willing to hear whether I am opposed to discrimination, that I am 
opposed to it. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that he is no longer making a 
legal point. I think he is arguing and haranguing with the committee. 
I think it can be cut off and should be cut off. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any other points ? 

Mr. Sporn. The other reason why this committee is sitting illegally 
is that it violates the 10th amendment of the Constitution which reads, 
if I may read it to you— that's the 9th amendment. "The enumera- 
tion in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to 
deny or disparage others retained by the people." This committee 
denies me the right, my human right to dignity and to my own private 
beliefs, and, therefore, this committee also sits illegally for that reason. 

It is also in violation of article X of the Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Pool. We have heard your objections and your objections are 
overruled and denied. 

ISIr. Sporn. I anticipated that answer. 

Mr. Pool. If you will stand, I will swear you in. 



1566 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Sporx. Before I am svvorii, I would, like to make one other 
request of the committee. 

Mr. Pool. You stand up and be sworn. "We have heard a lot from 
you. We are ready to swear you in. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to know if this table is bugged ? 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to stand up and be sworn in. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. I think the witness has a right to have that question 
answered. This happened, according to the record, in 1957, and I 
assume it is a reasonable request; since you have excluded the tape 
recorder, he is entitled to know whether there is any other device, 
especially whether it may interfere with a client- attorney relation- 
ship. 

Mr. Sporn. In 1957, it is recorded that this table was bugged. 

Mr. Pool. You can investigate the table. You have 30 seconds to 
do so, and then I want to swear you in. 

Mr. Sporn. I don't think I am as familiar with the electronic de- 
vices for bugging as some of the other gentlemen in this room. May 
we have an expert do the examination ? 

Mr. Pool. Will you stand up and be sworn ? 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. We at this time wish to examine the table as you 
said we might do. 

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead. 

All right. Stand and be sworn. Hold your right hand up. Do you 
solenmly swear that the testimony you are about to give this committee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Sporn. I do. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, in view of the statements that were made 
by an individual in this courtroom a few moments ago, once a few 
moments ago in the courtroom and once this morning earlier, the in- 
dividual being Mr. Will Gibson, who has been identified to me as a 
lawyer, member of tlie bar of Buffalo, and also as the attorney for 
Mr. Zelman and Mr. Berman, both of whom have been subpenaed as 
witnesses before this committee, in which this morning Mr. Gibson 
endeavored to make some objections and made a statement to the com- 
mittee at a time when neither one of his two clients had yet been called, 
and as I remember it, before the witness who did testify was called, 
Mr. Berecz, and again just now when he said that he had an objection 
to make and that he did not consider that his clients' rights were being 
protected. Also, in view of some part of Mr. Sporn's objection that 
was made a few moments ago to the effect that his riglits were being 
violated and that he has not had an opportimity to answer and prob- 
ably won't have an opportunity to answer certain accusations that 
have been made against him, I think that I should state on behalf of 
the committee, here in public, that all of the witnesses who have been 
subpenaed to appear here today and a number of other persons as 
w^el], who have not been subpenaed, have all been sent by tlie commit- 
tee letters under date of April 10, 1964, which gave them the oppor- 
tunity under House Rule XI, 26 (m), to appear here and to make any 
voluntary statement that they care to make, provided that they give 
notice to the committee in advance ; that, generally speaking, is what 
this letter said to those individuals, including Paul Sporn. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1567 

I would like to read at this time the letter that I have reference 
to which was sent to such individuals. I am quoting : 

"Pursuant to House Rule XI, 26 (m), the Committee on Un-Amer- 
ican Activities has received certain testimony in executive session. 

"In the course of this testimony, a person by the name of" — and 
the name of the witness was stated in the letter to each individual — 
"a resident of" — and the residence of the individual giving such 
testimony was given — "was identified as having been a member of the 
Communist Party." I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I have made an 
error in the reading of this in supplying the blanks. I will go back 
to read what I have just read : 

"In the course of this testimony, a person by the name of ," 

I am interrupting the reading of this letter to supply the blanks. In 
that blank was given tlie name of an individual who would be referred 
to later in this letter. 

Resuming the reading of the letter : "a resident of ," and 

there in that blank was given the residence of the person who would 
be referred to later in the letter which I am reading. Resuming the 
reading — 

was identified as having been a member of tlie Communist Party. 

A subcommittee of tlie Committee on Un-American Activities will meet at 
9:00 a.m. on April 29, 1964. in the City of Bufealo, New York, in Room 702, 
Federal Court House, 69 Niagara Street. 

At that time, if you so desire, you will be afforded an opportunity voluntarily 
to appear as a witness. At the same time, the subcommittee will receive and 
dispose of any request made by you to subpoena additional witnesses. 

This is not a subpoena or summons requiring you to appear. However, if 
you desire to avail yourself of this opportunity, you should so advise the Direc- 
tor of the Committee not later than Friday, April 24, 1964. He may be reached 
at Room 226, Cannon House Office Building, Washington 2.5, D.C. ; telephone 
number : Capitol 4-3121, extension 3051. 

Very truly yours, 

Edwin E. Willis, Chairma?i. 

There was a notation at the bottom that enclosed was a copy of the 
House Rule 26(g) and 26 (m). That concludes the reading of the 
form of letter, Mr. Chairman, which I understand, filled in, was di- 
rected to an individual named Paul Sporn. 

Mr. Sporx. I have nothing to say to the committee in private. 
What I have to say will be said in public. If you give me a chance 
to say it in public. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Sporn, from now on wait until somebody asks you 
a question before you spontaneously make a statement like that. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairm.an, having the benefit of that remark, how- 
ever, I note that my reading of the form letter in no way states 
whether the opportmiity to voluntarily appear as a witness would 
be public or private. 

Mr. GoLLOBTN. Mr. Chairman, since Mr. Hitz has concluded the 
letter, may I make a motion in connection to that ? 

IMr. Pool. Talk to counsel first. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. I wish to make it directly to the committee, if I may, 
Mr. Pool. It is a public statement. 

Mr. Pool. Come up here. 

(Wliereupon, Counsel Gollobin and Counsel Hitz a])proached the 
bench for an off-the-record discussion.) 

Mr. Hitz. On the record. 



1568 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Chairman, under the rules and procedures followed by this 
committee and along with other Houses — of both Houses of Congress, 
counsel are not permitted to make objections directly to the com- 
mittee. The witnesses are permitted to do so, and they may do so 
with and after consultation by counsel of their own choice. I sug- 
gest that the chairman state to Mr. Sporn, the witness, that if he 
cares to make any relevant and brief statement that is an objection 
to anything that is occurring in this courtroom at this time, that 
he do so. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. Mr. Chairman, at the outset of this hearing a mo- 
tion was made, and I asked for the same privilege. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Sporn, I so state to you the very words counsel has 
just used, and if you have objection, you make your objection. You 
have the right to consultation with your own counsel. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. May I have an objection for the record ? 

Mr. Pool. You can confer with your client. You are not to talk 
to the committee. 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. I wish to have my objection that the committee has 
permitted motions by counsel at the outset of this hearing, at the very 
beginning, and I consider it a denial of a fair hearing and a mockery. 

Mr. Pool. If you keep on, you are going to hold yourself in con- 
tempt of Congress. Now, you sit down and be quiet. 

Proceed with your questions. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Sporn. I have an objection to make. This is a further vio- 
lation of due process of law. A statement has been made about my 
name appearing as having been something or other, and I am not 
being given the right to directly confront the person who made such 
allegations. That is my objection, violation of the due process of 
law, another violation of the Constitution. 

Mr. Pool. Your objection is overruled. Answer the questions put 
to you. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, will you please state your address ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I remind the chairman of this committee that 
he said after I had been sworn in, he would allow me to state the 
reasons why I wanted to bring the tape recorder in here. 

Mr. Pool. State your reasons. 

Mr. Sporn. The reason I wanted this testimony recorded in full 
is that the editors of some newspapers have a habit of distorting the 
honest labors of their reporters. I would like now to cite an example, 
and I will give this as an exhibit to the reporter. There are two 
stories in the newspapers in this city 

Mr. HiTZ. Excuse me, Mr. Sporn. I would like to interrupt you, 
and I am sorry I have to suggest to the chairman that this in no way 
is a relevant objection to the proceeding here as to what appears or 
does not appear in the public press. 

Mr. Sporn. I think it is relevant to my purpose in bringing the 
tape recorder in and wanting to have a full tape of the hearing. 

Mr. Pool. You have stated your objection. It is overruled. Go on. 

Mr. Sporn. All right. There were two stories covering the same 
thing. 

Mr. Pool. Ask the next question, Counsel, and proceed with the 
questions. 



COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1569 

Mr. Hrrz. Mr. Sporn, have you stated your objection with reference 
to this tape recorder ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to state it now, that the testimony given 
here in this hearing is frequently distorted in the press. Now, you 
must admit that 

Mr. HiTz. I must interrupt again. I asked you merely if you had 
stated your objection. It is my view that you are arguing and I in- 
vite the chairman again to rule, and I will proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I am merely trying to help the committee. I am help- 
ing the committee, and I think they could do me justice by allowing me 
to have a tape recorder. 

Mr. Pool. You have your ruling, and your objection is overruled. 
Counsel, proceed with the next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, please give your address. 

Mr. Sporn. I shall not state my home address. I shall give you 
my address at my place of work. The reason I will not state my 
home address is that I do not wish to be harassed by the mentality 
which supports this committee. I have here, for example, something 
or some things sent 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest that if it is satisfactory with the chairman 
that the witness state the address that he indicates he is going to with- 
out being argumentative, and that you proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am trying to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question and be responsive. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to read to you the kind of harassment that 
occurs from stating an address and the kind of people that support this 
committee. 

Mr. Pool. Give your home address and that's what we want. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not going to give you my home address. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to give your home address. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not going to give my home address. I am going 
to give my address at my place of work, which is something that the 
committee has recognized many times before. 

Mr. Pool. Give your business address. 

Mr. Sporn. I would also like to submit this as an exhibit. 

Mr. Pool. I am asking you the question. What is your business 
address ? 

Mr. Sporn. My business address is State University of New York at 
Buffalo, Main Street. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your home address ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am not going to give you my home address because it 
would here open me to harassment. I would like to indicate to you the 
reasonableness of my position. May I ? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that he has made an objection 
here. I ask the Chair to rule upon the validity of the objection, and 
I reconunend to the Chair that he overrule the objection and require 
the answer of his home address, nevertheless. 

Mr. Sporn. My home address has nothing to do with the pertinency 
of the legislative purpose, and I would like to avoid harassment, and I 
would like to indicate to you the kind of harassment I would open my- 
self to. I am sure you would like to know that. 



1570 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chcairman, I am sure lie made his objection, namely, 
that it is not relevant to this inquiry that he give his home address. 
I would like to state for the record the relevancy of the record of his 
home address in order to identify the individual who is now in the 
witness chair and says his name is Paul Sporn. I think that his home 
address is relevant to this inquiry and is a pertinent question. I ask 
the chairman to require him to answer the question despite his objec- 
tion, and that he be advised that a failure and refusal to answer it may 
subject him to the penalties of contempt. 

Mr. Pool. I overruled your objection and order you and direct you 
to answer the question that counsel has asked you, and I direct you to 
answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Sporn". I shall state my address, but I shall hold the committee 
accountable for any harassment that occurs. 

Mr. Pool. State your address. 

Mr. Sporn. 442 Huntington Avenue, Buffalo, New York. 

Mr. Pool. That is your home address ? 

Mr. Sporn. That is my home address. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. Sporn. I was born in the city of New York. I don't see, again, 
what this has to do with the hearing here. 

Mr. Pool. Just be responsive to the questions. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to understand why ; you have identified me 
already. You have identified me as to i)lace of domicile, and what 
more information do you want ? 

Mr. Pool. This is for the purpose of complete identification. Pro- 
ceed with the next question. Counsel. 

Mr. Sporn. I understand that. 

Mr, HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, the pertinency and relevancy of this 
question is perfectly clear on the face of it. It is further identifica- 
tion of the individual with respect to his place of birth, his age as he 
now sits here, and of other activities concerning which we are going to 
ask him. The pertinency is beyond question. I ask the chairman to 
overrule his objection and to demand the answer, nevertheless. 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask the committee a question ? 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. Counsel, state the question again. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask the committee what possible relevancy this 
has? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I ask the Chair to direct counsel to ask the next 
question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to answer the question. I would like a 
point clarified. Do you insist that you will not clarify a point for me ? 

Mr. Pool. Counsel has clarified it. 

Mr. Sporn. He merely said that it has been established, but I do not 
know in what way. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, as counsel for the committee, I have indicated 
the relevancy and the pertinency of this question, which I am sure will 
stand up in the court. I ask the chairman again to overi'iile youi" objec- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1571 

tion and to require your answer to the question, when and where were 
you born, under the pain and penalty of possible contempt. 

Mr. Sporn. Since this may be 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. I overrule your objection to that question, 
and I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. SroRx. Before I answer the question, I usually like to have 
some clarity on it. I am an extremely busy person and I recognize that 
you are also. 

Mr. Pool. Let the record show that he has refused to answer the 
question. Proceed with the next question, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTZ. Next question, Mr. Sporn. 

Mr. Sporn. I have not refused to answer the question. I am asking 
for clarity on it. 

Mr. Pool. All right. I will give you one last chance to answer the 
question. 

]\Ir. Sporn". Before you give me a last chance, may I have clarity 
on it? 

Mr. Pool. I am not going to waste any more time on whether this is 
relevant. 

Mr. Sporn. I don't want to waste time, and you men ought not to be 
wasting time because there are many important things that you have 
to do in Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question, for the last time. 

Mr. Sporn. I still have no clarity. May I have clarity, please? 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. Just answer the question. Proceed with the 
next question, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTZ. The next question. 

Mr. Sporn. I would not refuse to answer the question. May I consult 
with counsel ? Can I consult v/ith counsel for one moment, please? 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

(Witness conferred wdth counsel.) 

Mr. Sporn. Thank you. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you furnish the committee with a resume of your 
educational background ? I ask you the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I can't possibly see what relevancy that has to do with 
the subject of this hearing. I am educated enough to know this, that 
America has many, many problems, one of which is discrimination, and 
another of which is chronic unemployment. Buffalo, for example, at 
the present moment has some 40,000 people unemployed. These are 
the problems, it seems to me, which we should be interested in. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, before proceeding with the next question, 
I would like to, with your permission, answer the objection of lack of 
relevancy of this question and then to ask the chairman to demand an 
answer. 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, I am now going to give a statement to you 
with reference to the relevancy and pertinency of the question having 
to do with your educational background. The identification that 
will be further obtained concerning you and your present and past 
activities from the educational background, that is the basis for this 
question as one of the relevant points, and it is important and, there- 
fore, pertinent to the inquiry that we are making of you here today. 



1572 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

In addition to that — and more specifically — it is a well-known situa- 
tion in the operation of the Communist Party that there have been 
people who have been downgrading their capabilities and their possi- 
bilities, who have been hiding their educational background and at- 
tainments and have been put to work for the purposes of the 
Communist Party in fields other than in which a person has been 
particularly trained. That is a special pertinency over and above 
the further identification of you as an individual, and further light 
to be thrown upon the activities that we have received information 
about concerning which we will ask you in the form of questions. 

Mr. Sporn. Your very last reason is the one that makes me most 
reluctant to state my educational background. You make it appear 
as if it is a shame to be a workingman. 

Mr. HiTZ. I have stated what I think is a sufficient statement of 
relevancy and pertinency. I will ask the chairman to require the 
witness to answer the question despite his reason given. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I don't understand. Getting an education doesn't seem 
to me engaging in illegal activities. 

Mr. Pool. Phrase your next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness be advised 
it is apparent he has not answered the question ; that he has had an 
opportunity to answer the pending question; that not having done 
so, it is apparent that his failure is a refusal; and that the refusal 
is one that he must view in the light of possible penalties of contempt. 
I ask the chairman to so advise him. 

Mr. Pool. I so advise you. 

Mr. Sporn. I am absolutely willing to answer. 

Mr. Pool. I so advise you and point out to you that you could pos- 
sibly be subject to contempt if you don't answer the questions. Now, 
if you do not care to answer the question, so state, and we will go 
on to the next question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am a graduate of college. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you graduate from high school, Mr. Sporn ? 

Mr. Sporn. I think the answer is self-evident. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, he has not voiced a legal objection to the 
question. I ask that the question be answered. I request the chair- 
man to demand the answer under the pain and penalty of contempt. 

Mr. Sporn". Really, with some serious problems, when an answer is 
self-evident, do we have to go through this ? 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Marshal, if he keeps on making statements without 
trying to be responsive to the question, we will have to take action. 

Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Hrrz. Mr. Sporn, I am advising the chairman to state to you 
that your failure to answer the question, whether or not you have 
graduated from high school, is a refusal which is punishable by con- 
tempt, and that he demand the answer. 

Mr. Pool. I so state to you, and I demand the answer and direct you 
to answer. 

Mr. Sporn. I am sorry. I did not hear you. 

Mr. Hrrz. Mr. Sporn, I am asking the chairman to advise you that 
your failure to answer the question as to whether or not you are a 
graduate of high school is a failure which is a refusal punishable by 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1573 

contempt proceedings, and that he demand the answer of you never- 
theless. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. In the State of New York, one is required to have a 
high school diploma in order to enter some of the colleges in this State. 
I have a high school diploma. I have graduated from high school. 

Mr. HiTz. When did yon graduate from high school, Mr. Sporn? 

Mr. Sporn". Now, what relevancy does that have, may I ask ? This 
happened quite a long time ago. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. It is like the ancient history recited before. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you, for the last time, to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. In 1939, at the start of the Second World War. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wlien did you graduate from college, Mr. Sporn ? 

Mr. Sporn. My education was interrupted because I had to serve in 
the United States Air Force in an anti-Fascist war, where I learned 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to answer the question. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. No, you are not. I suggest the witness answer the 
question or we proceed to the next one. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to give you an answer which will fill in on 
my background and identify what I believe in. 

Mr. Pool. Your statement is not responsive to the question. All 
you have to do is answer the question, and I direct you to answer the 
question for the last time. 

Mr. Sporn. Would you restate the question ? 

Mr. HiTZ. When were you graduated from college ? 

Mr. Sporn. I returned to school after the end of the war against 
fascism and nazism in 1949. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is not responsive. 

Mr. Sporn. I am about to give a date. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. To the best of my knowledge, in 1951. 

Mr. HiTz. What degree did you receive upon graduation ? 

Mr. Sporn. Again, may I protest ? It's just that I lack clarity on 
this. I don't see what relevancy this has to many of the problems 
in America and un-American problems that we might be solving, 
if we were somewhere else. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, explain the relevancy of the question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest that this matter 
of the degree upon graduation from college is further identification. 
It has to do with the specific pertinency that I have mentioned before, 
having to do with activities of the sort that I have outlined. It is 
unquestionably pertinent, and I ask the chairman to require the an- 
swer of the degree received upon graduation. 

Mr. Pool. I so direct you. 

Mr. Sporn. I am the Paul Sporn with the bachelor of arts degree. 

Mr. HiTz. From what college or university did you receive that 
degree in that year ? 

Mr. Sporn. New York University. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you graduate with honors cum laude, Mr. Sporn? 

Mr. Sporn. You are now asking me to violate a fundamental prin- 
ciple of my life, which is never to boast about myself. 



1574 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Pool. Be responsive to the question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the Chair advise the wit- 
ness that if he does not answer this question, which I believe to be 
pertinent, that he does so at the peril of risk of contempt. 

Mr. Pool. I so advise the witness. 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask counsel what the relevancy is ? 

Mr. Pool. Don't interrupt. 

Mr. Sporn. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Pool. I so advise you, as counsel has stated, and I direct you 
now to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. May I first have clarification on the relevancy of that 
question to these hearings ? 

Mr. HiTZ. The question as to whether or not you graduated with 
honors is one that is relevant and pertinent to this inquiry for the 
same reasons that I have stated with regard to the fact of graduation 
and the degree with which you have graduated. It needs no further 
elucidation. I ask the Chair to demand the answer. 

Mr. Pool. I so direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am that Paul Sporn who has a bachelor of arts 
degree and graduated from NYU in 1951 with honors. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, where have you been employed since your 
graduation from college in 1951, giving the places of employment 
from that time to the present ? 

Mr. Sporn. I have worked all of my life. I worked every day ex- 
cept, of course, today. I am not doing the job I should be doing — 
teaching — because I have been commanded to come down here. The 
work that I have done has taught me a great deal about the economic 
inadequacies and injustices which exist in American industry. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is not responsive. I direct you to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Sporn. In what way do the places where I have worked con- 
nect with the investigation into un-American activities ? 

Mr. Pool. I am directing you to answer the question, for the last 
time. 

Mr. HiTZ, Mr. Chairman, I would like to make some comment as 
to his objection, because it has to do with the relevancy of the question. 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I note that the counsel and witness have 
ceased their conference. I ask that the question that is pending 
be demanded of answer by the chairman and that it be stated to him 
that he may refuse only under the penalties of contempt. 

Mr. Pool. I so state to the witness and direct him to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am going to answer the question in the only way I 
know how at the moment, if you will allow me. Now, what I would 
like to laiow is, you had extensive investigation facilities, I under- 
stand. 

Mr. Pool. This is not responsive. For the last time, I ask you and 
direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. The thing I am trying to get at, it seems that you have 
gone to a sreat deal of exDense and could have scotten this information. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1575 

Mr. Pool. Hold it up. Let the record show he did not respond to 
the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. Well answer the question right now. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, are you so insisting that I answer it your way? 
Will you please allow me to answer it in the way I can ? 

Mr. Pool. I direct you for the last time to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. May I answer the question the way I can ? You cannot 
tell me how to answer the question. You may command me to come 
down here, but I am trying to answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, proceed with the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, were you employed by the Eighth Street Book 
Shop or an organization of a similar name in the period of approxi- 
mately 1949 to 1952 ? 

Mr. Sporn. Are you going to inquire now into the kind of books 
that were sold in that bookshop as un-American ? 

Mr. Pool. That is not responsive to the question, so answer the ques- 
tion. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to know what the counsel has in mind. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, the inquiry has to do with a possible place 
of employment after graduation. It has further to do w^ith the matters 
that I have stated before which are clearly pertinent to the inquiry 
here, having to do with the individual identity, with the indicated 
background of the individual, with the individual's activities in and 
about the Communist Party. The pertinency is apparent. I ask the 
chairman to again overrule the reason for the refusal to answer and 
demand that the question be answered. 

Mr. Pool. I so overrule the reason for not answering and direct you 
to answer. 

Mr. Sporn. Did counsel say after graduation ? 

Mr. HiTZ. My question was, after graduation, which is '51 accord- 
ing to your testimony. 

Mr. Sporn. To the best of my knowledge, yes, I did for a short time 
after graduation work in the Eight Street Book Shop selling books. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Pool. Come to order. 

Counsel, proceed to the next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, on or about October 9, 1953, did you make an 
application for employment with the American Optical Company? 

Mr. Sporn. (No response.) 

(Witness conferred with counsel) . 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you require him to answer the 
question by demand. 

Mr. Sporn. Mr. Chairman, I am thinking. I think I have a right 
to think about these things, don't I? Now, why am I being forced to 
immediately answer the question like that? Can I assemble my 
thoughts, please ? 

Mr. Pool. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, I am thinking about it at the moment. As I 
recall, on or about — what was the date ? 

Mr. HiTZ. October 9, 1953. 

36-414—64 5 



1576 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Sporn. It was a rather difficult time to get employment, as I 
recall. It seems to me it would be better if we were trying to solve 
that problem because it is still difficult times to get employment, even 
now. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, he is not answering the question. 

Mr. Pool. I will direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Would you repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. HiTZ. On or about October 9, 1953, did you make application 
for employment with the American Optical Comi)any ? 

Mr. Sporn. Excuse me, I am trying to refresh my memory on the 
date. I am not sure about the date. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, I said, "on or about" ? 

Mr. Sporn. On or about — yes, I believe so. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, in that application for employment with that 
company, is it not a fact that in those spaces requesting information 
having to do with your schooling and education, that you listed grade 
school as "public schools," the high school as "Townsend Harris High" 
School, New York, years completed, "1939," with reference to the high 
school, and that you left blank, vocational or trade school, business or 
technical school, college or university, and others ; that you left those 
blank? 

Mr. Sporn. You had this information all along; why did you ask 
me those questions before ? 

Mr. HiTz. I ask that the chairman direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Pool. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I thought I answered the question before, that I grad- 
uated from high school in 1939. 

Mr. Pool. That was not the question. 

Mr. HiTz. That is not responsive to the question. Mr. Sporn, the 
question was, Did you not leave blank those spaces having to do with 
all educational attainments after high school on this application to the 
American Optical Company ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel) . 

Mr. Sporn. Will you restate the question, please ? 

Mr. HiTz (to reporter) . Will you read the question. 

(The reporter read the pending question.) 

Mr. Sporn. To the best of my knowledge, I was free to leave those 
spaces ; I had the choice. I was free to leave those spaces blank. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this answer is not 
responsive. 

Mr. Sporn. Why isn't the answer responsive, Mr. Johansen? 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I will interject an explanation and repeat 
the question. The question was, Mr. Sporn, whether or not you did, in 
fact, leave blank those spaces calling for attainments in education 
beyond high school, not the reason for it. Is it not a fact that that is 
what you did ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I see the application so that I can have the same 
information that you already have ? 

Mr. HiTZ. I will show you a copy of "Sporn Exhibit No. 1." 

(Document handed to witness.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1577 

Mr. Sporn. Now that I see the copy you have looked at ; yes, I did 
leave those spaces blank. You had that information all along, of 
course, which indicates that the purpose is not really to get information. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, did you not reply under question 18, which 
is, "What position do you prefer?", "Machine Operator"? I will 
show you again Exhibit No. 1, Mr. Sporn. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, that way we will both have the same information, 
at any rate. Now, would you repeat that question ? 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you not, under the question calling for such an 
answer, say that your preference was for machine operator ? 

Mr. Sporn". Is there any shame in being a machine operator? 

Mr. HiTz. The answer is not responsive. The objection is not rele- 
vant. It needs no reply. I request the chainnan to demand an 
answer. 

Mr. Sporn". Before, you did make it somid as if it was a shameful 
thing to work as a machine operator or any other job in the plant. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Of course, I don't have the application in front of me, 
but I do think it said exactly what Mr. Hitz read himself on the piece 
of paper. 

(Document marked "Sporn Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Hitz. Mr. Sporn, were you employed as a result of your appli- 
cation by American Optical Company for the period of approxi- 
mately October 19, 1953, to approximately April 9, 1954 ? 

Mr. Sporn. I wonder if the committee is aware that in 1954 there 
was a great deal of unemployment in Buffalo, and I was laid off from 
that plant in 1954? 

Mr. Hitz. That is not responsive. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to give you the terminal date of that em- 
ployment. Yes, I was employed, to the best of my knowledge. I 
don't have the application in front of me, but I w^as employed during 
those dates. 

Mr. Pool, Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Hitz. What employment, Mr. Sporn, did you have with the 
Optical Company during approximately that period ? 

Mr. Sporn. Didn't you just ask me that question ? 
• Mr. Hitz. I ask you now, AVhat was your employment? My 
previous question was. What was your application for employment ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask a question ? 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. You are not asking the questions 
here today. 

Mr. Sporn. That is one of the difficulties. You know, in a class- 
room where I teach, we have a trade of questions and answers and we 
get lots more infonnation than we seem to be getting today, and no- 
body ever asks questions about information they already have. The 
reason, it seems to me, why the committee is seeking this information, 
is for some other purpose. You are not here for information. You 
are here for another purpose. That is what you are here for. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, ask the next question. 

Mr. Hitz. I ask that the chairman demand the answer. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 



1578 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Sporn. Weren't your investigators able to get that infor- 
mation ? 

Mr. Pool. Next question. Let the record show he refuses to answer 
the question. Next question. 

Mr. Sporn. I haven't yet refused to answer the question. 
Mr. Pool. Well, answer the question right now. 
(Witness conferred with counsel) . 
Mr. Sporn. I was employed as a machine operator. 

Mr. Pool. Next question, Counsel. 

Mr. Sporn. I am reluctant to answer the question because they make 
the investigators look rather foolish. 

Mr. Pool. Wait until he asks you a question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, on a date not stated in your application, 
did you not apply for employment with the Twin Coach Company of 
Buffalo, N.Y. 

Mr. Sporn. I know what's going to happen; you are going to go 
through all these applications. I was laid off many, many times 
during that period because American industry could not provide me 
with a regular job. "On a date not stated," you say — what is the 
question ? 

Mr. HiTz. There is no question pending at this time. You did 
not permit me to finish it. 

Mr. Sporn. I am sorry. Go ahead. 

Mr. HiTz. In which application you stated no educational attain- 
ment beyond that of "Harris High School," which, without further 
identification, resulted in your employment by Twin Coach Company ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am a bit confused. Is it un-American not to state 
education or is it un-American to go to work in a plant? Now, you 
are asking me to state what ? 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to find out what the question and the per- 
tinency of it is ; that is why I asked the question. 

Mr. Pool. State the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Is it un-American not to list one's education ? 

Mr, Pool. State the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to know the pertinency of it. 

Mr. Hnz. I think the chairman is addressing me. I did not un- 
derstand whether the Chair asked me to state the next question or 
the previous question. 

Mr. Pool. If he hasn't answered the previous question, that will 
be the one to ask. Do you insist upon the answer to the previous 
question ? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn has indicated he doesn't understand the ques- 
tion. I will repeat the question to him. 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask another question of Mr. Hitz, counsel ? 

Mr. Pool. No. Just answer the questions that Mr. Hitz puts to you. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, I would like to, but the reason I kept raising the 
point 

Mr. Pool. You are going to have to listen to the questions and an- 
swer them, and that is all we have you here for. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1579 

Mr. Sporn. Aren't you here to have me give you some information ? 

Mr. Pool. We are here to ask you questions that you are to respond 
to. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to explain why I am having difficulty with 
the pertinency. I would like to ask a question. 

Mr. Pool. We are not here to have you lecture to us. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not trying to lecture to you. I am trying 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Counsel stated he would restate the question, and 
I suggest he proceed to do it. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, my question of you is : On a date not desig- 
nated on the application, did you not make application for employ- 
ment with the Twin Coach Company, subsequent some time to your 
employment with American Optical Company, in which application, 
that is, the Twin Coach application, you failed to state any educa- 
tional attainment after Harris High School, 1939? Please answer 
that question. 

Mr. Sporn. Wliat is the pertinency of that question as to this 
hearing ? 

Mr. HiTZ. The pertinency of that question is the same as to the 
other related questions which I have given to you before, and ex- 
pressly the same as that to the American Optical Company question : 
that it has to do with your educational attainments, your use, or lack 
of use, of those attainments, further identification of you, illumina- 
tive of your activities in the Communist Party concerning which we 
have received today sworn testimony. 

Mr. Sporn. Since this has to do with the use of my attainments, 
I would say I have used my attainments all along. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. HiTz. jMy question had to do with whether or not you did leave 
blank educational attainments after high school. I am not repeating 
the question ; I am indicating what the question dealt with, and I ask 
you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. May I see the application ? 

Mr. HiTz. You may, and this is Sporn Exhibit No. 2 that I am 
handing to you. 

Mr. Sporn. You ask me if this application is blank in what spots? 

Mr. HiTz. My question, not repeated, but related to those state- 
ments of educational attainments after high school. Are those blanks 
calling for such information, are they not left blank on the appli- 
cation ? 

Mr. Sporn. Reading from the same application which you had 
before you a few moments ago, yes, that space is left blank. 

Mr. HiTZ. All spaces beyond high school; is that not correct? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, all spaces beyond high school, rather legibly so 



1580 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

(Document marked "Sporn Exhibit No. 2" follows:) 



Sporn Exhibit No. 2 




TWIN INDUSl"Ki£S CCvPjn.:y;-!_ rO^J-lEr^iy 
TWIN COACH COMPANY 

AIRCRAFT • MISSILES 
VEHICLE COMPONENTS 

BUFFALO 25, N. Y. 



May 17, 1962 



Mr. Frank S. Tavenner, Jr. 

Director 

Conunittee on Un-American Activities 

Mouse of Representatives 

Congress of the United States 

Washington D. C. 

Dear Mr. Tavenner: 

This is to acknowledge receipt of your letter of May 14, 
1962 regarding our former employee, Paul Sporn. 

In accordance with your request, we are enclosing herewith 
a copy of his employment application. 



Very truly yours, 

TWIN INDUSTRIES CORPORATION 
Aerospace Division 



i)(CTvllLv^ 



L. R. Peard 

Industrial Relations Manager 



LRPrRM 
End. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1581 



Sporn Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



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1582 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 



Sporn Exhibit No. 2 — Continued 



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COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1583 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, did you receive employment with Twin 
Coach Company? 

Mr. Sporn. May I see that application again, please? 

Mr. HiTz. Yes, 

Mr. Sporn. I notice on the letter sent to that company, that the 
industrial relations manager — I am answering the question, I am. 

Mr. Pool. You are not answering it; it's not responsive. 

Mr. Sporn [reading]. "This is to acknowledge receipt of your 
letter of May 14, 19C2 regarding our former employee, Paul Sporn." 
They considered me an employee of their plant. Yes, I was employed 
by them. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, did you not sign the following statement on 
the application for employment for Twin Coach, which I am going 
to read to you ? "I am not a member of the Communist Party or any 
organization recommending the overthrow of the United States Gov- 
ernment by force." My question is, Did you not sign your name below 
that statement? I w^ill hand you the same exhibit so that you may 
answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Sporn. What is the purpose of this question? I can't quite 
make out the purpose of this question now. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you please hand me back the exhibit ? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, the question that I asked had to do with 
whether or not you signed a statement having to do with Communist 
Party membership or membership in an organization recommending 
the overthrow of the United States Government by force in your 
application for employment with the Twin Coach Company, and it 
deals with whether or not you were then a member of the Communist 
Party. 

The Supreme Court has determined that the questions asked of 
Mr. Barenblatt as to whether — when before the committee — he was 
a member of the Communist Party, and another question, whether 
he ever was a member of the Communist Party, were pertinent and 
relevant beyond any question of arginnent before this committee, and 
Mr. Barenblatt's conviction for contempt was upheld in an opinion so 
holding in the Supreme Court. That is the relevancy and pertinency 
of this question, and that is the problem with which you are faced if 
you don't answer it. 

Mr. Sporn. What year was that decision made? 

Mr. HiTz. I have stated the relevancy and the law on which it is 
based. I ask the chairman of the commitcee to require the answer to 
the question. 

Mr. Pool. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Since this particular question violates the first amend- 
ment by inquiring into one's right to peaceably assemble, and so forth 
and so on, I refuse to answer the question on those constitutional 
grounds. I am sure you would not want me to violate the Constitution. 

Mr. Pool. Just a moment. Do you have a further statement to 
make? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, of course I do. 

Mr. Pool. State it. 



1584 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Sporn. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the sixth 
amendment which gives me the right, if I am charged with a crime, 
to a speedy trial and to confront my accuser with cross-examination, 
which you are denying me. 

Mr. Pool. Do you have any further objections? 

Mr. Spoen. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the 14th 
amendment, because this hearing is a violation of the due process 
law clause of that amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Anything further? 

Mr. Sporn. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of this amend- 
ment, the fifth amendment : 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, 
unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in 
the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when, in actual service in time of war 
or public danger ; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be 
twice put in jeopardy of life or limb ; nor shall be compelled in any Criminal 
Case to be a witness against himself ; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or prop- 
erty, without due process of law ; nor shall private property be taken for public 
use, without just compensation. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. Sporn. I would like to finish. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, may we go off the record? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. On the record. 

In other words, you are also pleading the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Sporn. I am pleading all the amendments that I have cited. 

Mr. Pool. Do you specifically plead the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Sporn. I am pleading them all, and I guess you might have 
recognized that amendment that I just read to you, which in this book 
is article V of the Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, do you contend that the answer to that ques- 
tion, among other things, might tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Sporn. I have answered that question already. I refuse to 
answer on all the grounds that I stated. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. PIiTz. Mr. Sporn, on approximately October 5, 1954, did you 
make application for employment with the American- Standard Com- 
pany,^ or a name to that effect, in which application you stated that 
you had theretofore w^orked for the American Optical Company; 
thereafter, that is after the American Optical Company employment, 
that you worked for the Twin Coach Company, and in this application 
did you not fail to list any educational attainments beyond those of 
the Harris High School ? I will show you what will become Sporn 
Exhibit No. 3, and ask you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. It seems to me that you have asked about four questions 
at once, and although I graduated with honors, I really don't have the 
ability to follow all four questions at one time. Would you like to 
ask one question ? 

Mr. HiTz. I would like you to answer that question. 

Mr. Sporn. Will you restate it ; it sounded like four to me. 



^ American Radiator & Standard Sanitary Corporation. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1585 

Mr. HiTz. Please hand the exhibit back. On the application that is 
the subject matter of the last question, did you not leave blank those 
spaces calling for your educational attainments beyond those of high 
school in which you stated Harris High School ? 

Mr. Sporn. In looking at the application which the counsel just 
looked at, I see that the spaces after high school are left blank. May 
I suggest that the committee stop wasting taxpayers' money and give 
me all those applications you have there, and I will run through them 
for you very quickly. 

(Document marked "Sporn Exhibit No. 3" and retained in commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr. Pool. Be responsive. 

Mr. Sporn". Why waste taxpayers' money? You just can't come 
here and hold session all day long and waste taxpayers' money. There 
are a lot of things we can do more worthwhile than sitting here. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. PIiTz. Mr Sporn, the next question is — and I am going back to 
the application for Twin Coach employment — and I will ask you : Is 
it not a fact that in that application you sought employment by stating 
that you desired employment as a riveter ? I will hand you your ap- 
plication, which has been identified here to you as Sporn Exhibit No. 2, 
for identification, and you may answer that question. 

Mr. Sporist. Would you restate that question, please ? 

]Mr. HiTz. I am asking you if you did not apply for the position of 
riveter ? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, I did. It says so. It's not quite clear ; the "r" on 
the word "riveter" is a little blurred. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you dispute the fact ? 

Mr. Sporn. No ; I said "Yes." The word is not very clear. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you receive employment with Twin Coach, as a result 
of this application or otherwise, and work as a riveter for them ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I see Sporn Exhibit No. 4, is it? May I see it, 
please ? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, I am asking you whether you did, in fact, work 
for Twin Coach after having had or having made the application ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I see the exhibit ? 

]Mr. HiTz. I will show you again Exhibit No. 2, which is the Twin 
Coach application. 

Mr. Sporn. Oh, Exhibit No. 2 ; I'm sorry. I got the number wrong. 
I think you asked me that question before and I answered it. 

Mr. HiTz. I asked you now. I did not ask you before, I do not 
think. I ask you now whether you actually worked as a riveter for 
Twin Coach? 

Mr. Sporn. Isn't this the letter I read to you ? I mentioned the in- 
dustrial relations manager? 

Mr. HiTZ. I'm sorry, sir. I am asking the question again. 

Mr. Sporn. I believe I answered it before. Can we have the stenog- 
rai)her go back over the record to see if I did ? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I think he should answer the question, 
if it was asked before. 

a\Ir. Sporn. I think I did answer it before and I want to make sure 
that I don't answer it differently. I would like the stenographer to 
read through that, please. It's getting very difficult with all these 
exhibits to remember which is which. 



1586 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. Without reference to tlie exhibits or your application, I 
am asking you, Did you work as a riveter for Twin Coach ? It calls for 
a factual answer based upon your recollection. 

Mr. Sporn. I know it does. I am asking the stenographer to see 
if I answered that question before. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, 1 ask the Chair to direct the witness 
to answer the question. He can answer it from his recollection and he 
is well aware he can. 

Mr. Pool. That is correct, and I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, I did. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, did the Twin Coach Company, concerning 
which I have asked you a number of questions including the last ques- 
tion, have defense contracts at the time you applied for employment 
with them ? 

Mr. Sporn. Are you referring to war contracts? 

Mr. HiTz. I am referring to defense contracts with the United 
States Government. 

Mr. Sporn. I really can't answer that question, because I did not 
work in the front office at that time and did not let contracts for the 
company. I worked as a riveter. 

Mr, Pool. State the next question, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, did you receive employment with the Ameri- 
can-Standard, or a similarly named company, in Buffalo as a result 
of your application to which we have made reference? 

Mr. Sporn. May I see the application to which you are referring? 

Mr. HiTz. I am asking you to call upon your recollection, whether 
or not you worked for American-Standard. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, American-Standard. So many companies are 
named American, I would like to see the application so that I can see 
which company you are referring to. 

Mr. HiTz. I am showing you the application for employment with 
American-Standard. 

Mr. Sporn. And the question you are asking? 

Mr. HiTz. "Wliether you secured employment with them? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes. 

Mr. PIiTz. Will you please return the exhibit ? 

Mr. Sporn. I have no desire to keep it. 

Mr. HiRTz. Wliat work did you do for American-Standard? 

Mr. Sporn. It was very hard work. 

Mr. HiTz. What type of work did you do for American-Standard, 
Mr. Sporn ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I have that application again ? It might refresh 
my memory. 

Mr. HiTZ. I am asking for your recollection as to what type of work 
you did. 

Mr. Sporn. As nearly as I can recollect, I worked as a cutter there. 

Mr. HiTz. A cutter? 

Mr. Sporn. I think that was the title of it. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, I am about to ask you a question. Do you 
care to confer any longer ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. GOLLOBIN. No. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1587 

Mr. HiTz. Approximately March 28, 1955, did you make an applica- 
tion for employment witli Chevrolet in Tonawanda ? 

Mr. Sporn. May I ask what possible objection you can have to the 
honest labor that I have performed through a nmnber of years? I 
assure you that the companies 1 worked for made more out of me than 
I made out of them. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Fool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you make application for employment with Chevrolet 
on approximatel}^ the date given ; did you or did you not make such 
an application ? 

Mr. Sporn. Would you repeat the date, please? 

Mr. HiTZ. March 28, 1955, approximately. 

Mr. Sporn. As near as I can recollect, yes. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, is it not a fact that in that aiDplication you 
failed to list any educational attainments beyond those of senior high 
school, and for the purposes of your answer, I am showing you Sporn 
Exhibit No. 4. 

Mr. Sporn. This is getting to be like an Alphonse and Gastone 
act here. One doesn't need a college education to read blanks. 

Mr. HiTz. I am asking you the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am looking for it. 

Mr. HiTZ. It was on the page that was opened when it was handed to 
you, sir. 

Mr. Sporn. I am sorry. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you please return the exhibit to me, and I will turn 
to that portion ? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes? 

Mr. HiTz. What is your answer ? 

Mr. Sporn. Would you turn to the portion and I will take a look 
at it, please? 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you look at the exhibit I have handed to you and 
answer the question ? 

Mr. Pool. For the information of the Chair, is it the American 
Standard Optical ? 

Mr. IIiTz, No, I will get the full name when I get the paper back. 

Mr. Sporn. You are asking about the blank spaces ? 

Mr. HiTz. I am asking about the blank spaces on the page handed 
to you. It requires inspection of that page and no other page. 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, if you will allow me, I wnll answer it. Yes, the 
spaces are blank as anyone can see who looks at the application. 

(Document marked "Sporn Exhibit No. 4" and retained in commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Ichord. 

(At this point Mr. Pool left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Ichord (presiding). The last question in which he stated that 
there were blank educational attainments in spaces calling for those 
was in an application for Chevrolet of Tonawanda ; the day on that 
was 

Mr. HiTz. The earlier exhibit had to do with American-Standard 
employment ; that was Exhibit No. 3. Chevrolet is Exhibit No. 4. At 
a later time, I will offer all of these exhibits for our record. 

Mr, Ichord. Thank you, Counsel. 



1588 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, I am going to hand back to you for inspection 
in order to answer the next question the Chevrolet application, which 
is Exhibit No. 4, and I am going to ask you this question. I do now 
ask this question : Does it not state that you — I w^ould like to strike 
that question or portion of it and give you this question. I am going 
to hand you the application which is concerned in this question, having 
to do with Chevrolet, and ask you whether or not you did not state 
that you were qualified for the position to "read micrometers" and that 
you had tools, or words to that effect ? I am showing you the actual 
page of the application containing information upon which you can 
answer my question. 

Mr. Sporn. No matter how hard I try not to make a farce of this 
thing, the committee seems to be not willing to help me not to make a 
farce of these things. I happen to be an extremely busy person with 
many, many things to do, and I am sure the Congressmen here are 
also very, very busy ; and there are many problems that need solutions 
that are not being solved here now in this courtroom. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I shall read from the application what anybody else can 
read. I did say that I can read micrometers. Isn't it farcical to do 
this? 

Mr. IcHORD. Thank you. You could have done this 5 minutes ago. 

Mr. Sporn. This farce could have been ended by 10 hours ago. 

Mr. IcHORD. It will be ended as soon as you answer the question when 
counsel asks it. 

Mr. Sporn. There was no need to ask self-evident questions. 

Mr. IcHORD. The courtroom will be in order. 

Mr. Sporn. Is it worthy of Congress to come and ask questions that 
are absolutely obvious ? 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair is not here to argue with you, Mr. Sporn. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not arguing with you. I am trying to help it. 

Mr. Ichord. The committee is not here to try you. It is here to 
gather evidence and facts. 

Mr. Sporn. You are here merely to ask me questions; is that it? 
For w4iat purpose, I would like to know ? 

Mr. Ichord. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, were you a member of the Communist Party 
when you made this application for employment to Chevrolet on 
March 28, 1955 ? 

Mr. Sporn. The counsel for this committee insists on violating the 
Constitution of the United States. Now, why does he insist on being 
so un-American ? 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Sporn. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Ichord. The Chair will advise the witness and the demonstra- 
tors in the committee room, that you are here through the courtesy of 
the committee. 

A Voice. We are here because it's a public hearing. 

Mr. Ichord. And I would ask that the lady act like a lady. 

A Voice. I have asked you to act like an American. 

[Disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Ichord. The Chair is not here to argue with the witnesses or 
any of the spectators. Let me say this to the witness in the chair, that 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1589 

at first he attacked this committee as being composed of members who 
are opposed to civil rights. Let me advise this witness that I am a 
member 

Mr. Sporn. I did not accuse all of you. 

Mr. IcHORD. I support civil rights as a matter of conscience. I hope 
you do. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. IcHORD. I hope that the gentleman in advancing the principles 
which he apparently believes in today also holds those as a matter of 
conscience. I do not intend to argue with the witness at all. We 
merely want the facts, and I would ask, Mr. Sporn, that you cooperate 
with the committee and give the answers to the questions of the counsel. 

Mr. Sporn. Mr. Ichord, I am aware of your record on civil rights 
and I deeply respect you for it, but there are some members who 
voted against it. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the witness be directed to answer the 
question and we proceed. 

Mr. IcHORD. Will the stenographer read the question. 

(The reporter read the pending question.) 

Mr. IciiORD. Will the witness answer the question ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am about to answer the question. 

Mr. IcHORD. Thank you, 

Mr. Sporn. I again refuse to answer this question because I will 
not be a party to a violation of the Constitution. I refuse to answer 
a question which delves into, which violates the first amendment of 
our Constitution, which gives us the right to peaceable assembly. I 
also refuse on the grounds that the sixth amendment which allows a 
person, if he is being accused of a crime for illegal activit}'^, to a 
speedy and direct trial. Tliis is not a courtroom. This is a hearing 
room and it also gives me the right to cross-examine anyone who is 
my accuser. I am not being accused of anything. This is a pure 
violation of the Constitution. I also have other grounds. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn, You criticize me for interrupting you. 

Mr, Ichord, You are going to get to the important one. 

Mr. Sporn. You mean the others are not important in this Consti- 
tution ? 

Mr. IciiORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I agree with you that the one you have in mind is im- 
portant too. It has a long history in our country. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I suggest the witness be instructed 
to answer or give the reason for declining, and cease to be argu- 
mentative. 

Mr. Sporn. I am not being argumentative. Somebody attacked 
our Constitution and said that some of the amendments are not 
important. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the 14th 
amendment, which this committee is now violating by not giving 
me due process of law, and, also, I refuse to answer on the grounds 
of the ninth amendment. This conunittee is denying me other rights, 
which I shall not noAV enumerate, in the Constitution. I also refuse 
to answer on all of the grounds that this is an illegal committee to 



1590 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

begin with, and I answer for some of those reasons that I stated be- 
fore, that because there are some members, not all, Mr. Ichord, but 
some members here who are sitting illegally in Congress, because 
they do not pennit Negroes to vote. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Ichord. The Chair will again advise the spectators that this is 
a public hearing, a hearing of Congress of the United States of Amer- 
ica. We are here to gather facts. We would ask you now to cooper- 
ate and cease the demonstrations. Therefore, the Chair will, for the 
final time, ask that you please cooperate and maintain order. The 
gentleman declines to answer on all the grounds previously heretofore 
stated. The Chair would advise the witness that you could have stated 
that about 10 minutes ago, and we would have proceeded with the next 
question. I believe the witness said all of the other grounds hereto- 
fore stated ? 

Mr. Sporist. No. I said that I refuse to answer because this commit- 
tee is sitting illegally and, if you want me to, I will run through all of 
the reasons. 

Mr. Ichord. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to answer the question, and you keep gavel- 
ing me down. If you don't want an answer 

Mr. JoHANSEN. The witness is taking just as much time as he can. 
The witness knows there is a way to answer this with a minimum of 
time, and if you will do so, you may fully protect your rights. 

Mr. Sporx. That way is to violate the Constitution of the United 
States, which I refuse to do. 

Mr. Ichord. Proceed, Mr. Sporn. 

Mr. Sporn. Proceed with what ? 

Mr. Ichord. Have you concluded with your answer ? 

Mr. HiTz. Have you given all the grounds for your refusal to 
answer ? 

Mr. Sporn. No, I have several others. I also refuse to answer on the 
grounds that this committee is violating article III, section 1, of the 
Constitution by impinging on the powers given to the judiciary by the 
Constitution of the United States. I also refuse to answer on that 
amendment which was designed to protect people against the false 
accusation of informers. I don't like associating with informers, in- 
cidentally. It is very trjnng to be in the same room with one today. 
The Bible doesn't like informers, either. Judas was an informer. 

Mr. Johansen. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness proceed to 
answer, and discontinue this. 

Mr. Sporn. No person shall be held to answer 

Mr. Ichord. The witness is obviously trying to delay the commit- 
tee. The witness will proceed with his answer and cease with the 
dilatory tactics. 

Mr. Sporn [reading] . 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, 
inaless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising 
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of 
war or public danger ; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to 
be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb ; nor shall be compelled in any Criminal 
Case to be a witness against liiniself ; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, 
without due process of law ; nor shall private property be taken for public use, 
without just compensation 



1 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1591 

Mr. IcHORD. Aiid do you invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Sporn. I have given all of the grounds upon which I refuse to 
ans^Yer. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, it appears that he, among other reasons, 
has invoked the privilege against self-incrimination, and I will move 
on the next question which has to do with Exhibit No. 5 — Sporn Ex- 
hibit No. 5 for identification. I will ask you whether or not you 
obtained employment with the University of Buffalo at some time 
subsequent to your employment with Chevrolet in Tonawanda? 

Mr. Sporn. In answer to that question, I would like to say that I 
did not think before coming here today that I would have anything to 
be thankful to the committee for, but I do. I received a promotion. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair directs the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I received a promotion. The informer promoted me to 
assistant professor, but I am an instructor at the University of Buffalo, 
which indicates how unreliable that informer's testimony is, inciden- 
tally. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. I suggest the next question be propounded. 

Mr. IcHORD. The next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, on or about February 6, 1964, were you em- 
ployed by the University of Buffalo or a university similarly named? 

Mr. Sporn. The fact of the matter is, it isn't similarly named any 
more. I don't know what latitude you give me on that phi'ase "similarly 
named." I have been employed at the University of Buffalo since 
1951), but it has changed its name since then. 

Mr. HiTz. Up to and including the present day, Mr. Sporn ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am not now employed at the University of Buffalo. 
It does not exist. 

Mr. HiTz. The State University of New York at Buffalo was the in- 
stitution, to your knowledge, on February 6. 1964; rvas it not, sir? 

Mr. Sporn. Would you repeat that, please ? 

Mr. HiTZ. The State TTniversity of New York at Buffalo was an in- 
stitution of learning in the State of New York on or about February 
6, 1 964 ; was it not, sir ? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, it was. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you on that date or approximately that date em- 
ployed at that university ? 

Mr. Sporn. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. On or about that date, did you sign the following certifi- 
cate: 

Anyone who is a member of the Communist Party or of any organization that 
advor-ates the violent overthrow of the Government of the United States or of 
the State of New Yorlc or any political subdivision thereof cannot be employed 
by the State University. 

Anyone who was previously a member of the Communist Party or of any 
organization that advocates the violent overthrow of the Government of the 
United States or of the State of New York or any political subdivision thereof 
is directed to confer with the President before signing this certificate. 

:j: :<: ^ 4: :{: 4: ^ 

This is to certify that I have read the publication of the University of the 
State of New York, 1955, entitled "Regents Rules on Subversive Activities" to- 
gether with the instructions set forth above and understand that these rules and 
regulations set forth as well as the laws cited therein are part of the terms of 
my employment. I further certify that I am not now a member of the Commu- 
nist Party and that if I have ever been a member of the Communist Party I have 
communicated that fact to the President of the State University of New York. 

36-414—64 6 



1592 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

My question is, Did you not sign that certificate on or about Febru- 
ary 6, 1964 ? And I will hand you Sporn Exhibit No. 5 in order that 
you may answer that question, and I am handing it to you on the page 
in which the information called for is located ? 

Mr. Sporn. Is there anything on the back of that ? 

Mr. IcHORD. The witness can look at the application there. Hand 
it to the witness. Let him take a look at it. 

Mr. Sporn. Again, I think this committee is violating the Consti- 
tution of the United States, and I refuse to answer that. I am going 
to give my answer. You don't allow two words out of my mouth be- 
fore you gavel me down. 

Mr. IciiORD. Answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am answering the question if you give me a chance. 

Mr. IcHORD. Are you answering ? 

Mr. Sporn. Well, is a declination not an answer ? 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I am refusing to answer that question, because in asking 
it the committee is violating the Constitution of the United States, and 
I refuse to be a party to such a violation. In fact, an editorial in to- 
day's C ourler- Express points out it's more loyal to be true to civil 
liberties than it is to be necessarily true to this committee. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Sporn. And Daniel Webster also said that "an unconstitutional 
act is not binding on the citizens of this country." This is my reason 
for refusing to answer. I won't be bound by any unconstitutional acts. 

(Document marked "Sporn Exhibit No. 5" follows :) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1593 
Spoen Exhibit No. 5 
P. Spom English 

STATE UNIVERSI1Y OF ItEW YORK AT BUFFALO 

CERTIFICATE 



Anyone who is a member of the Communist Party or of any organiza- 
tion that advocates the violent overthrow of the Government of the 
United States or of the State of New York or any political subdivision 
thereof cannot be employed by the State University. 

Anyone who was previously a member of the Communist Party or 
of any organization that advocates the violent overthrow of the Govern- 
ment of the Ltoited States or of the State of New York or any political 
subdivision thereof is directed to confer with the President before 
signing this certificate. 

This is to certify that I have read the publication of the University 
of the State of New York, 1955, entitled "Regents Rules on Subversive 
Activities" together with the instructions set forth above and understand 
that these rules and regulations as well as the lav/s cited therein are 
part of tlie terms of my employment. I further certify that I am not 
now a member of the Communist Pajty and that if I have ever been a 
member of the Communist Party I have communicated that fact to the 
President of the State University of New York. 



Cate^ 7^ Si^Kie""" 



1594 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 



Spoen Exhibit No. 5 — Continued 



Sine? I find not hi or in th- Fclr.'^r.rQ Lav tnit pr<?ventn Qrl. 
dltlor.ol cnn^-T^ents to this cortincote, 1 sbouia ir - *o 
say thn follow! nc: 



I flu'^ t.bis c^.vlificatR and the Feinbert' Law riistfjate- 
ful an-i unbeiio:al tr- a free aov^roiLO at-ite trylu- to build a 
univoraity systcir, of tho first oraor. It d'^rconat r' tes fear 
an(3 Lnclf o-f confiddnce In the syatota it ir. aoulct'ed to pro- 
tect. 



It est.o ll^'ncs atcn^a'-'.G oth<-r t'nrn acnfl-v^lc 
Tea lannl c ■^^;;3t d;;o <^. It Joea oo o.:'- -- -nlly, l^y^-'a- 
Bribers of t;,e profesnlon, v;bo n r^j, -^ftar nil, b-j- 
tinining, te.uporc.nont, ad q" p f^ ri n nc^ , the ouly on^^ 
of Ll<?t<?ruilnln3 wh^ t ore tl-^ b'-at orit-jrir for Ir.vj 
teaohin- coxpc.t ence, v-'hilc rrc3Gr;lnc that oUjc'^t', 
thfit untett.ii'iC pursuit o7 knowledge, thr. t frc^ >:: 
of infon^n ti or. and opinion, oven il coot rOTorclal , 
oal, o;.:; ■iRpOpulnr, "I'lort v.-'v>h- t ca ;bl ij- axel].., 
fruitful r-.-.'^r^ch way be aavorely haiKp-rod. 



f-^r pro- 


; '"■ I',. 


-^uoo of 


;- CUpCblp 


Vlty, 


-Mj • n-e 


r. A- 



Id «7 D>;n opinion, tho Lvm nn^ ^ 
ijyi^liol of the Ln'./, o.re thrk-.+ r- '.o ur■^ 
a -J Ir'-^'-ional applicotl on of th<-. Law, 
aa::uuptlon, c.j.nc" it Z'^g^' out zf th- 
unny ao^cr t:ii:.l:-r^ co"5iu 
i-eat rai nta a r^j i nyvl ^rbl e. 



oortifjc-f, 
uot ui,r'^; r 



cf th: v.o earthy e'^'if, 
au 1 rrt; tl Ov^iol ono, dc 



Lie 
rch 

Inr 



Given this hcu, \;hst chail v.'o do vlth tbf cloct 5 ..<j 
foun-j in th" Declcirction of In J opendctics: "ihat v.-lTsnover 
any i- Orm of Gover^Esant bs'-oaes f'.-st ru^t iv.-. of th"ao ends, 
it i3 the Rifjht of tbo people to alter or aboil fjh it, onci 
to intltute tic-w Covorn-dient, layitif itT foundation on such 
prl liciplos nnd or •■ nl ?! tv- its pot-.'nro it. nuch form oa aball 
aeein ^;o,>t lilc^ly to effect their c;.''fety and Happinesa," 
lGr3:?-rlly, I bollove that thia is a sound doctrine and 
that the word "people" in thg po^.':*?fG also In-ludss those 
of ua vh ,1 are tea oh era. 






COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1595 
Spokn Exhibit No. 5 — Continued 
STATE OF NEW YORK ) 

> ss: 

DEPARTMENT OF STATE \ 

It is Hereby rerlifietl, Tkai we have made a careful and diligent examination 
of the indicea of Oaths of Office on file and find no record of the 
filing of an Oath of Office for Paul Sporn, Professor, University of 
Riffalo, Buffalo, New York, for the years 1961 through March 13, 19U. 



WITNESS my hand and the of/icial se.sl of the 

Department of State at the City of 

Albany . this 13th day 

of March, one thousand 

nine hunJ'ed and sixty-four. 

"^ Secretary of State 

Mr. IcHORD. And I am sure that the gentleman will eventually in- 
voke the fifth amendment. I suggest, Mr, Counsel, that we proceed 
with the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, I am, of course, going at once to proceed to 
my next question, wnth the understanding and belief that if you were 
not invoking the self-incrimination clause of the fifth amendment to 
the answer to the last question, that you would care to state that you 
are not claiming the self-incrimination clause. In other words, I 
assume that you do claim the self-incrimination clause and, therefore, 
I pass to the next question. You have an opportunity now to say that 
you do not wish to resort to the self-incrimination clause, if you wish 
to so state. I do not hear any response from Mr. Sporn, Mr. Chair- 
man, to the statement that I made. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 



1596 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. And therefore the record will disclose what is apparent 
from the colloquy just had. 

Mr. Sporn, my next question: On or about February 6, 1964, an 
individual using the name Paul Sporn, executed a certificate which I 
have read. I want to ask you, Paul Sporn, whether or not you had 
ever been a member of the Communist Party ? I first would like you to 
tell me. Is the question clear to you or do you not understand that 
question ? 

Mr. Sporn. Well, you started out by loading it, but I think you may 
have unloaded it before you were over, but restate it again. 

Mr. IcHOKD. I am sure that the witness understands the question. 
The question is: Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? Mr. Sporn, I am sure that you can answer that question, 
"yes" or "no." 

Mr. Sporn. Since this committee has no right to 

Mr. IcpioRD. Tliat is not responsive to the question, Mr. Sporn, and I 
direct you to answer the question as stated by counsel. 

Mr. Sporn. I am answering the question the only way I know how. 
If you have a prescribed form, why don't you type it out for me and 
give it to me ? 

Mr. IciioRD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. I did not ask about the relevancy. I was about to 
answer the question when you started gaveling me down. You seem to 
want an answ^er only in one form. Now, this is America. It is free, 
and a person has a right to answer the way he wants to, doesn't he? 
Especially before a committee of Congress. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Sporn. I think that is why we are here. Don't try to tell me 
how to answer a question. Let me answer it the way I know how. 

Mr. IcnoRD. Proceed. 

Mr. Sporn. Since this question again violates the Constitution of the 
United States and is an act of the committee in violation of the Con- 
stitution of the United States, I refuse to answer this question. This 
committee has no right under the first amendment to inquire into one's 
rights to peaceable assembly. It is also a violation of article VI of 
the Constitution, which gives a person who is accused of a crime, which 
I am not being accused of, the right to a speedy trial. If you have 
some accusation to make, give me the right to a speedy trial and the 
right to cross-examine those who are my accusers. Under those cir- 
cumstances, we may get answers. You are also in violation of the 14th 
amendment, which is a violation of the due process law, and therefore 
I refuse to answer on those grounds. You are impinging upon the 
judiciary powers granted to the judiciary of the United States by 
article III, section 1, of the Constitution, and therefore I refuse to 
answer on those grounds and I also refuse to answer on the grounds 
of the amendment which protects the witness against false accusation. 
This is the fifth amendment. 

Mr. HiTz. Is it the self-incrimination clause of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Sporn. I have answered the question. 

Mr. HiTz. I ask you the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I have answered the question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1597 

Mr. Sporn. I have given all the grounds upon which I refuse to 
answer the question. 

]\Ir. IcHORD. The witness sufficiently in^'okes the fifth amendment. 
The witness is not required to answer when he invokes the lifth amend- 
ment. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. IcHORD. And a great right, too. 

Mr. Sporn. I think so, too, Mr. Ichord. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair, in order to clear up a point here, the Chair 
understood that the witness was invoking the self-incrimination clause 
of the fifth amendment. Were you or were you not, Mr. Sporn 'i 

Mr. Sporn. As I stated before, I stated the grounds. I stated all 
the amendments, including the fifth amendment, on which I refuse 
to answer. 

Mr. IciiORD. Including the fifth amendment. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, there was a great deal said about 
tliis committee violating the rights of the witnesses. Now, this com- 
mittee is asking you, in order to make the record crystal clear and in 
order to protect you through any invocation of protection you desire — 
if I may have the attention of the witness — we are attempting, by 
being specific, to invite you to invoke those protections you seek to, and 
that is the reason you were asked Avhether you were invoking all of the 
fifth amendment including the self-incrimination clause. 

Mr. Sporn. I thought that I had made that perfectly clear. 

Mr. Johansen. I suggest the next question, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. IciiORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Sporn. I mean, what I am saying, I thought I had made per- 
fectly clear my answer before. I said that before. 

Mr. Ichord. That is what the Chair understood. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I would like at this time to ask the 
chairman to receive in evidence in this hearing the exhibits that have 
been previously referred to and which I will now^ identify as "Sporn 
Exhibits Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4," which, by way of saying in summary, are 
applications for employment. 

Mr. IcHORD. If there be no objection from any members of the 
committee, those applications will be received in evidence. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, my next question has again to do with the 
Sporn Exhibit No. 5 which is the certificate which I read, having to do 
with Communist Party membership, both past and present, that would 
be as of the time of the execution of the certificate on or about Feb- 
ruary 6, 1964, by one Paul Sporn. My question in that area is, and it 
is being asked after you have declined on constitutional grounds, in- 
cluding those of the fifth amendment, to ask whether or not on Feb- 
ruai-y 6, 1964, you had ever been a member of the Cominmiist Party. 
With that background, I ask you this question : On or about February 
6, 1964, had you communicated the fact of prior Communist Party 
membership to the president of the State University of New York? 

]\Ir. Sporn. I am going to refuse to answer that question on a num- 
ber of grounds. Some of the grounds that I have not used before, 
incidentally. One of the grounds upon which I refuse to answer that 
question is that this committee is now, in asking this question and ask- 
ing all of the other previous questions, attempting, consciously or 
otherwise, to inquire into an area that has always been protected by 



1598 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

academic freedom. A miiversity exists on the basis of free inquiry, 
even into dissenting opinion. 

Mr. IcHORD. Answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. I am giving my answer. 

Mr. HiTz. I am interrupting, Mr. Sporn, to suggest that the chair- 
man miderstand tliat he is not stating a ground of objection. He is 
arguing and urging a ground for objection, and if he is resorting to the 
first amendment, he has amply covered that in a previous objection or 
objections that he has made. Therefore, I think he is subject to the 
admonition of the Chair at this time, and if he cares to rely upon the 
reasons previously given for refusal to answer earlier questions, he 
may do so, and that he may, however, both briefly and temperately 
state any objections that he may have over and above those which he 
has already stated and which he should now incorporate by reference. 

Mr. Sporn. That is what I am trying to do. 

(At this point Mr. Pool returned to the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Pool (presiding). Go right ahead and do that in accordance 
with what counsel just said. 

Mr. Sporn. I refuse to answer because freedom of inquiry on cam- 
pus is a delicate matter, without which a university cannot exist. 
Therefore, I refuse to answer this question, because it is an invasion 
of one's private beliefs. 

Mr. Pool. Do you refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment ? 

Mr. Sporn. I refuse to answer, also, on the grounds of the first 
amendment, which is an inquiry into one's private beliefs which this 
committee has no legal rights to inquire into. I also refuse to answer 
on the gromids of the ninth amendment 

Mr. HiTz. State all of the numbers of the amendments. That will 
take care of it. 

Mr. Sporn. I wish to make perfectly clear the grounds upon which 
I answer it. There is no need to state numbers. Numbers are empty ; 
words mean something, and also on the grounds — may I answer the 
question ? 

Mr. Pool. Yes. 

Mr. Sporn. And also, on the grounds which denies me due process 
of law, the 14th amendment, and I also refuse to answer on the grounds 
of the 6th amendment. If you are trying to accuse me of an illegal 
act or a criminal action, then allow me a trial and allow me the right 
to cross-examine those who are my accusers. I also refuse to answer 
on the grounds of article III of the Constitution which prevents Con- 
gress from impinging on the judiciary powers, and I also refuse to 
answer on the grounds of that amendment, the fifth amendment, which 
protects me against false accusers. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed, Counsel, to the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn 

Mr. Sporn. I hope the newspapers print that. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Sporn, were you here this morning in the courtroom 
when Mr. Berecz testified ? 

Mr. Sporn. Who is Mr. Berecz ? You mean the informer ? 

Mr. HiTz. The witness who testified. 

Mr. Sporn. The man who sold his soul to the FBI ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1599 

Mr. HiTz. The man who did not sell himself to the enemies of his 
country ; that's who it is. 

Mr. Sporn. The enemies of the country are those who refuse to give 
Negro people the right to vote and those who violate the Constitution 
of the United States. Those are un-American. They are the enemies 
of this country. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that he be given a further de- 
mand to answer the question under the pain and penalty of possible 
contempt. 

Mr. Pool. State your question again. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you present in this hearing room when the previous 
witness testified, Mr. Sporn ? 

Mr. Sporn. The previous witness, you say ? 

Mr. HiTz. Yes. 

Mr. Sporn. Yes, I was. That is why I know he is an informer. 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you care to deny or do you care to affirm the statement 
that he made, that you were present with him on tv/o occasions of meet- 
ings of individuals in branches of the American Communist Party in 
the area of Buffalo ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Sporn. You pretend to be trying to protect my rights, but you 
don't give me the right to cross-examine that person who was testify- 
ing earlier today. That is one of the violations of the Constitution 
which I have been objecting to by this committee. 

Mr. Pool, Just answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. How can I have full rights in this committee if you 
don't allow" me to 

Mr. Pool. Evidently, he doesn't care to answer the question. Pro- 
ceed with the next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. I have a request, before proceeding, that Mr. Sporn be 
given final demand, on pain of possible contempt proceedings, that he 
answer the pending question. 

Mr, Pool, I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr, Sporn. Will you give me the right to cross-examine the witness ? 

Mr, Pool, I direct you to answer the pending question, 

Mr. Sporn. Will you please repeat the question? 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, repeat it. 

Mr. ITiTZ, Do you care to deny or do you care to affirm the state- 
ments made by the previous witness, that you attended two meetings 
of the members of the Communist Party on the dates and times he 
indicated, in the Buffalo area ? You have that opportimity to affirm 
or deny, at this time, in the same public forum that was the time and 
place of those statements ? 

Mr, Sporn. You are asking me if I care to deny or affirm. I don't 
care to deny or affirm, I don't care to deny or affirm. 

Mr. Pool. Next question, Counsel. 

Mr, HiTZ. Mr, Sporn, are you a member of the Progressive Labor 
organization, movement or party, or just an entity known as Pro- 
gressive Labor, at this time ? 

Mr. Sporn. Since the counsel persists in asking questions which 
violate the Constitution of the United States, I must therefore refuse 
to answer this question on the grounds that this committee has no 
right to inquire into one's private beliefs or to limit 



1600 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Pool. You are basing it on the grounds previously stated; is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am trying to answer the question. May I answer it 
my way? 

Mr. Pool. If you are going to take all day, you can't. 

Mr. Sporn. Wliy don't we quit now and go back to the work we 
have to do, the important work we have to do ? 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead and answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. We would all be better off doing that work. On the 
gromids of the first amendment, which prohibits Congress from mak- 
ing any laws in the area of private beliefs or to limit freedom to peace- 
able assembly. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the sixth 
amendment. If I am being accused of any illegal activity or criminal 
action, you must give me a right to a speedy trial and to cross-examine 
my accusers. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the 10th 
amendment. I also refuse to answer on the grounds of the 14th amend- 
ment. The committee is violating due process of law. I also refuse 
to answer on the grounds that this article III of the Constitution, 
which prohibits Congress from impinging on the powers of the judi- 
ciary. I also refuse to answ^er on the grounds of that amendment 
which protects me from false accusers. All on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, all right. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Sporn, my next question : I asked you a precise ques- 
tion, giving approximate date, in reference to whether or not, on or 
about February 6, 1964, you had communicated past Communist Party 
membership, if you had any, to the president of the State University 
of New York at Buffalo. I am now going to ask that question a little 
bit more broadly so that there will be no possible confusion with re- 
spect to the date involved or the person to Avhom such a communica- 
tion should be or was made. My question is: On or about February 
6, 1964, did you communicate with anybody having to do with the 
State University of Buffalo anything in reference to any past Com- 
munist activity or membership on your part? If you made such a 
communication, would you please tell us; and if you did not, would 
you state that you did not; and if you care not to answer, would you 
please state that you do not, on various grounds previously mentioned ? 

Mr. Sporn. In what way is this relevant to the legislative purpose 
of this committee today ? 

Mr. HiTz. It has to do with whether or not you complied with cer- 
tain requirements having to do with the laws of the State of New 
York in reference to the State University, or a university similarly 
named, which has certain areas of contact with the Federal laws and 
areas in the Federal domain which are subject, not only to the laws 
of the United States in that regard, but to possible further legislation 
in fields that are contiguous to those of the State of New York. 

Mr. Sporn. Are you saying that you are here now administering the 
laws of New York State ; is that your purpose ? 

Mr. HiTz. I am stating the relevancy and the propriety of that 
question. I now ask the Chair to demand an answer to that question. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Mr. Chairman, may I ask this question ? I am not clear 
on the relevancy. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1601 

Mr. Pool. The relevancy of the question has been stated, and I now 
direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Sporn. Counsel said something, it seems to me — I am asking, 
did he say something about the administration of the laws of the State 
of New York, the execution of the laws of New York State ? 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr, Chairman — I hope that the Chair is to stand upon 
the statement of relevancy, pertinency, and legality and validity of 
the last question as stated by me — and, therefore, I ask the Chair to 
direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr, Sporn. Again, I refuse to answer the question because it is an 
invasion of the academic freedom upon which the university exists, 
without which no university can exist. I also refuse to answer this 
question on the grounds of the first amendment. This committee has 
not any right to inquire into my private beliefs or limit my right in 
any way under that amendment. 

Mr. Pool. You stated all of these amendments. Just tell us which 
amendments you rely upon and we will get on with the thing. 

Mr. Sporn. Well, perhaps one value we might get out of today's 
activities is what we may learn about the Bill of Rights, is about all. 
Sometimes we need to relearn that, carefully. 

Mr. Pool. I could make a certain comment to you right now, but 
I won't do it. 

Mr, Sporn. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the sixth amend- 
ment, which gives me the right to direct cross-examination to the 
accuser for any illegal act or criminal action. I refuse to answer on 
the grounds of the l-lth amendment. This committee is violating the 
due process law, the clause of that particular amendment. I also re- 
fuse to answer because this committee is violating the judiciary pow- 
ers expressly given to the judiciary in article III of our Constitution. 
I also refuse to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment, which 
protects me against false accusers. 

Mr. HiTz, Mr. Chairman, I think that it is perfectly proper for a 
witness who desires to claim the self-incrimination clause of the fifth 
amendment, to .say the fifth amendment. If, however, he makes resort 
to other portions of the fifth amendment, which has a number of 
clauses in it, and does not mention the self-incrimination clause, then 
the self-incrimination clause has not been invoked. Mr. Sporn has 
said that he is resorting, among other things or other reasons for re- 
fusing to answer, to the fifth amendment, but he qualified that now for 
the first time, and without further remark what he .said now was, 
which protects him from all false accusations. That is a limitation 
upon the fifth amendment and upon the self-incrimination clause, and 
it is not clear whether he is resorting now to the protections which 
will afford him a reason not to answer under the self-incrimination 
clause. That clause protects a witness or an individual from a false 
prosecution under some circumstances and, also, a well-founded prose- 
cution. He has only protected himself in the claim against a false 
accusation. He should be advised that he, nevertheless, despite what 
he has said, may be faced with a perfectly proper accusation and 
further proceedings. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 



1602 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Pool. You are so advised, and the Chair now rules that if you 
wish to invoke — do you wish to invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. HiTZ. That is my suggestion, or, if he wants to resort to the 
fifth amendment and all of its clauses without eliminating any with- 
out reference and innuendo, that he do that. 

Mr. Pool. It has been so explained to you. Do you now invoke 
the fifth amendment in an objection to answer the question ? 

Mr. Sporn. When the founders of our country wrote the fifth 
amendment, they were not fooled. They were not w^riting this 
amendment to protect criminals. They were writing this amendment 
to protect innocent people. 

Mr. Pool. I am not asking for a speech. Now, if there is further 
demonstration, we are going to have the marshal escort you out. If 
you want to stay, stay and be quiet. We are trying to hold a hearing 
here and to try to hear the witnesses, and these demonstrations are 
not helpful. 

Mr. Sporn. They were tiying to protect people agamst inquisitors. 

Mr. Pool. Are you relying on the fifth amendment as an objection 
to answer the question ? 

Mr. Sporn. I am relying on all of the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. I was giving you some historical mformation which you may 
sorely be in need of. 

Mr. HiTz. I have no further questions of this witness. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

[Applause and disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Pool. Marshal, if you will take and spot the people who are 
applauding and demonstrating, on the next occasion, I would like for 
them to be escorted from the room. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest we recess for 10 minutes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess of 10 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Pool. The hearing will come to order. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Scioli. 

Mr. Pool. Will you stand and be sworn, Mr. Scioli? Do you 
solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this 
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you Godi 

Mr. Scioli.' I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH C. SCIOLI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

NATHAN WITT 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Scioli, are you represented by Attorney Nathan Witt 
here this afternoon ? 

Mr. Scioli. Yes. 

Mr. PIiTz. Will you give your full name, sir ? 

Mr. Scioli. Joseph C. Scioli, S-c-i-o-l-i. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born, sir ? 

Mr. Pool. Will you identify the counsel ? 

Mr. HiTz. I did. 

Mr. Pool. I don't believe you have identified counsel for the 
reporter. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1603 

Mr. HiTz. Tlie reporter has it. 

When and where were you bom, Mr. Scioli ? 

Mr. SciOLi. March 18, 1905, Buffalo, New York. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your present occupation, sir ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I am an international representative. 

Mr. HiTz. Of what organization ? 

Mr. Scioli. The International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter 
Workers Union. 

Mr. HiTz. How long have you been so employed in the union ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Since February 1944. 

Mr. HiTz. What are your duties as international representative ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Basically, I assist the members of my organization in 
this area to bargain for better contracts and for the resolvement of 
grievances. 

Mr. Hrrz. "What is your area of occupation in that union ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Principally in the Buffalo area. 

Mr. HiTz. With what companies do you have business to transact 
in that connection ? 

Mr. SciOLi. The companies in this area that my organization has 
contracts with where I assist the members; one is the Anaconda 
America Brass, and the other is the Samuel Greenfield Company. 
Another is the Niagara Falls Smelting and Refining Division. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Scioli, Charles Regan, a witness before this com- 
mittee on October 2, 1957, testified that he knew you as a member 
of the Communist Party and as an official of the International Mine, 
Mill and Smelters Union in the Buffalo area. Was this an accurate 
statement, Mr. Scioli ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. HiTz. My next question, Mr. Scioli, Mr. Joseph Chatley, also 
a witness before this committee on October 2,^ 1957, stated that he 
knew you as a member of the Communist Party and as an official for 
the International Mine, Mill and Smelters Union. Was that a correct 
statement, Mr. Scioli ? 

Mr. Scioli. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, just so the record is straight, that 
includes specifically the self-incrimination clause of the fifth amend- 
ment? 

Mr. Scioli. That and everything else in the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Thank you. Let the record show that. 

Mr. HiTz. Our next question sir : Were you acquainted with Charles 
Regan and Joseph Chatley while you were employed as an official of 
the International Mine, Mill and Smelters Union ? 

Mr. Scioli. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTz. Next question : Did you know Charles Regan and Chatley 
to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scioli. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTZ. Next question: Mr. Scioli, a previous witness, Mr. 
Berecz, identified a number of individuals as persons known to him 
as colonizers for the Communist Party in the Buffalo area. Included 



' Actually, Mr. Chatley testified before the committee on October 3. 



1604 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

in those were Norman Sternbach, Milton Rosen, Milton Kaplan, Hy- 
man Rosoff, and Mortimer Scheer. Have you ever talked with any 
of those individuals regarding this phase of Communist activity or 
any labor activity that might be related to it? I am referring to 
colonization; if you do not understand the question, will you please 
tell me? 

Mr. SciOLi. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTz. Next question. 

Mr. Pool. Same objection ; fifth amendment? 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. HiTz. With respect to certain particular years, Mr. Scioli, I 
want to ask you whether you were a member of the Communist Party 
in 1947, 1948, 1949? 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. HiTz. Next question : Have you at any time since 1949 officially 
separated yourself from affiliation or membership in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you engaged in lobbying activities on behalf of 
your union in respect to the State of New York or the Federal 
Government ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Yes. 

Mr. HiTZ. What have you done in the field of lobbying for the 
union in respect to the Federal Government? 

Mr. SciOLi. Petitioning for jobs, for civil rights, for medicare, for 
all the grievances that the workers have, to make our country better 
for all the people. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you do that with the Federal agencies, both at the 
seat of Government, that is, Washington, and elsewhere? 

Mr. Scioli. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. I am speaking now of lobbying in the Federal area ? 

Mr. ScioLi. Yes ; we have had meetings with Congressmen in Wash- 
ington and also in Buffalo, New York. 

Mr. PIiTz. What have you done in the field of lobbying for your 
union in the State of New York area ; I mean, in the state area of the 
State of New York? 

Mr. Witt. Not geographically? 

Mr. HiTz. Well, it would be geographical, but it is jurisdictionally, 
the State of New York I am asking you about. 

Mr. SciOLi. Yes. Well, we have petitioned the State legislature for 
improvements in unemployment insurance, workmen's compensation, 
mine wages, and other benefits that are important to the worker. We 
have definitely took a position in this area opposed to "soak the poor 
taxpayers," and we propose instead to raise the revenue to the city 
of Buffalo and the county, a corporate profit tax of maybe 1 or 2 
percent. 

Mr. HiTz. You have indicated certain subjects upon which you lob- 
bied in the areas of the State of New York jurisdiction and the Federal 
areas. Have you named all of the areas then, subjects upon which you 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1605 

lobbied federally and vis-a-vis the State of New York; do you under- 
stand my question? 

Mr. SciOLi. It isn't too clear ; I don't quite recall. 

Mr. HiTz. But it is a matter of your best recollection to which you 
testify? 

Mr. SciOLi. To the best of my recollection, yes, those are the areas. 

Mr. HiTz. Therefore, you are not now purposely omitting any 
areas in which you lobbied, as you testified today? 

Mr. SciOLi. No, I am not purposely omitting. When I refer to 
"soak the poor taxpayer," we oppose that. This relates to the county 
area, not the State, but in the county and city areas. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, if I may interject at this point, just 
to complete the record. Has your own lobbying activity that you are 
describing included appearances in behalf of these various items of 
legislation before committees of the Congress, personally ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Together with the membership of our union, various 
delegates that were delegated to go with me to Washington or I ac- 
companied them to Washington or to Albany. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Have you yourself testified, that is my question, just 
to complete the record ; do you recall ? 

Mr. SciOLi. Well, those are the areas that I recall in which we have 
lobbied, the membership and myself on behalf of all of the members. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Thank you. 

Mr. HiTz. My next question : Have you ever attended meetings of 
labor leaders in the Buffalo area which meetings were attended by 
Andrew Berecz, who was the first witness today ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. HiTz. My next question : Have you ever signed a noncommu- 
nistic affidavit as required by the Taft-Hartley Act ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. No, I have not. 

Mr. HiTZ. You are aware that my question was, Have you ever 
signed such an affidavit ? 

Mr. ScioLi. Yes. To the best of my recollection, I never have. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions by counsel, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness will be excused. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Wolkenstein is our next witness. 

Mr. IcHORD. And I would like to thank the previous witness for 
helping to expedite the situation. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWAED A. WOLKENSTEIN 

Mr. HiTz. Do you have counsel, Mr. Wolkenstein ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. No, I do not. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I gather you heard me ask Mr. Wolken- 
stein if he had counsel. He said he has not. I therefore suggest that 
he be sworn. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. Before I am sworn in, I would like to express 
an opinion and express my point of view. 

Mr. HiTz. Excuse me. I suggest to the committee he be permitted 
to give any legal objections that he may have. 



1606 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. Well, thank you, Counsel, legal objections. 

Mr. .loiiANSEN. Mr. Chairman, before that, I wonder if the record 
is clear that the witness has not indicated his desire to have counsel. 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. Yes, last time in 1957 these tables were bugged, 
and I will refuse. 

Mr, JoiiANSEN. Will the witness wait until I finish? I want to ask 
the witness whether he is waiving the right of counsel? 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. I am not waiving anything. I am coming here 
of my own volition without counsel. 

Mr. Pool. If you have objection to appearing, state your objec- 
tions. 

Mr. WoLKENS'i-EiN. My objection to this committee is, in the first 
place, it is constituted illegally. This committee exists under the viola- 
tion of the first amendment, the right to association and the right to 
free thinking. Secondly, this committee, under the pretense of having 
open and public hearings, has deliberately, maliciously, and purposely 
forced the radio and television to be shut oft' in this room. Thirdly, 
it has deliberately, purposely, and maliciously prevented a larger 
hearing room to be utilized, so that all the people of the area who 
wish to hear what goes on in these hearings, would be provided for 
them. I feel that this committee, in the fact that it has members on 
it that have been elected illegally, the State of Louisiana, the State of 
Virginia, the State which denies the Negro the right to vote and many 
white people as well, these people have been elected illegally and, 
therefore, do not represent, truly, honestly, the Constitution of the 
United States. These people were represented by the conscious and 
deliberate overthrow of the reconstruction government in the South, 
and by the denial of the Negro and the white in the South to vote, 
particularly in the States of the two Representatives on this commit- 
tee, it indicates that these people are illegal representatives of the 
American people. As a matter of fact, they don't represent the Ameri- 
can people in that area at all until they give and grant rights of the 
Negro people and the poor white in those areas the right to vote. 

Mr. Pool. Don't make a speech; just make your objections. If you 
don't have any further objections, I will swear you in. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. You insist on keeping us here after suppertime. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Let's have the reasons. 

Mr. Pool. Are you ready to be sworn in now ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. Just a moment. I also obj ect to the fact that this 
hearing room is set up, not as a hearing room, but as a courtroom, and 
it has given the popular illusion in the public's mind that this is a 
courtroom, and, in it, a hearing; and I say that this is a deliberate plot 
on the part of this committee. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Mr. Chairman, it was stated here earlier on the 
record that this is not a court and not a courtroom proceeding, and I 
suggest the witness be sworn. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. Well, I suggest that this committee has spent 
the taxpayers' money by the thousands upon thousands of dollars, and 
it utilizes the purposes of congressional immunity. 

Mr. Pool. If you are ready to be sworn, you will be so sworn now, 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I did not finish my statement yet. 

Mr. Hitz. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest to the Chair that 
the witness be advised he may be permitted to make legal objections. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1607 

but if he is going to make an attack upon the committee, if he is at- 
tempting to argue tlie objections that he has a perfect right, we think, 
he has to state, tliat he will be in the same position of Eugene Dennis 
was when he was cited and convicted and Gerhart Eisler, when he was 
cited and convicted for contempt. 

Mr. Pool. Let the record show that — and the witness is so informed ; 
and I am ready to swear you in. 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. I did not quite get that point ; could you repeat 
that, please? 

Mr. HiTz. My point is, that the chairman is permitting you to state 
legal objections to your appearance, to your taking the oath; that 
when these statements that you make go beyond the presentation of 
your legal objection and you argue your objection or you make state- 
ments that are irrelevant to a legal objection, or you merely attack the 
committee in what does not constitute a mere statement of legal ob- 
jection, you are being told that you can be held in contempt of this 
committee, as Eugene Dennis was and Gerliart Eisler was, and they 
were both cited and convicted for contempt. 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. What is this going to be; guilt by innuendo 
now? 

Mr. Pool. Would you like to be sworn in ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I am not finished. 

Mr. Pool. I will overrule you. 

Mr, Wolkensteix. The Representative, a member of the Dallas 
Chamber of Commerce, ought to investigate what went on down 
in their fair city. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. That will do, and I will direct you to follow the in- 
structions of the Chair. 

Mr. Pool. Stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear that the 
testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I do. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Wolkenstein, will you give your full name, please ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. My name is Edward A. Wolkenstein. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you spell the last name ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. W-o-l-k-e-n-s-t-e-i-n. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I would like to make a statement now, at this 
point, that from this point on 

Mr. Pool. Your statement can be responsive to the question. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. It is in response to the question, if the Chair 
permits. 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is this in response or an objection ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. In response to the question. 

Mr. HiTz. Please listen to me. I would like to ask a question. Is 
it either in objection or reply to the question, or is it of a general 
nature in regard to your testimony now that you have been so sworn? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. It is in general regard and in specific to this 
particular point, yes. It's both general and specific. 

Mr. HiTz. Proceed, please. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I will take every protection that the Bill of 
Rights affords me, the 1st, 3d, 4th, .5th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 15th amend- 

36-414—64 7 



1608 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

ments and every safeguard the Constitution affords me and, there- 
fore, will not answer any questions this infamous committee will direct 
to me. 

Mr, Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Wolkenstein, do you invoke those reasons and ob- 
jections to the answer, to the question, when and where were you 
born? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I already answered you, sir. I have taken every 
safeguard that this Constitution affords me. 

Mr. HiTz. I heard what you said. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. And I take every Bill of Eights protection that 
the Constitution affords me, and I will not answer any questions. This 
committee, in my eyes, does not deserve to be answered. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that if he continues to do this, 
he is in the position that I have indicated before. 

Mr. Pool. State your objection to the question. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I have already stated my objection. I have taken 
every legal precaution, every legal protection that the Bill of Rights 
and the Constitution offers me, and I will refuse to answer any ques- 
tion that this infamous committe will direct to me. 

Mr. Pool. May I advise you that you ha;ve not been respon- 
sive to the question. I am advising you that you have not an- 
swered the question, and with that in mind. Counsel, proceed with the 
next question. 

Mr. HiTz. The next question, Mr. Wolkenstein, please give us a 
resmiie of your educational background. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I said, let the record state that I have taken the 
1st, 2d, 3cl, 5th, the Gth, the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the 
Constitution, and therefore this legal protection does not obligate me 
under any way, circumstance, to answer any question that this in- 
famous committee puts to me. 

Mr. Johansen. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I can make a suggestion 
to the Chair, and even possibly to the witness, that it will expedite mat- 
ters and he will thereby invoke those protections which he states that 
he does invoke, if he will simply repeat, not necessarily the full words, 
but simply invoke those protections which he has in response to these 
questions that are asked. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. Sir, what are you trying to make; trying to 
make a public believe that anybody that takes the fifth amendment 
is a Coimnunist? Wliat about Bethlehem that has taken it, Westing- 
house that has taken it, what about the big businessmen that liave taken 
the fifth amendment? You don't call them "fifth amendment big 
businessmen." 

Mr. Pool. You will be taken from the courtroom if there is an- 
other demonstration that occurs. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. Let me have my say. What is this? The 
United States or is this the Hitler-Germany regime ? 

Mr. Pool. The witness will be seated. You are going to be held in 
contempt. 

Mrs. Wolkenstein. Don't tell him that. You insulted our whole 
family. 

Mr. Pool. Remove that lady. 

Mr. Wolkenstein. You will not remove that lady. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1609 

Mrs. WoLKENSTEiN. I will not leave. 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. Yoli leave her alone. 

Mrs. WoLKENSTEiN". I will slap you if you touch me; that's my hus- 
band. 

Mr. Pool. I order that lady removed to the hall. 

[Disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Pool. The U.S. marshal has assured me that there will be order 
in this courtroom, so we will try to proceed. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Wolkenstein, what is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I have indicated to this committee I will not 
answer any further questions. I have already taken every legal pro- 
tection that the Bill of Rights and the Constitution affords me. 

Mr. HiTz. Would it suit your purpose if I asked all the questions? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. It will not suit my purpose at all. You will be 
w^asting my time, the taxpayers' time. Release me from here, and I 
will go out and do my political work ; and if you have any kind of a 
criminal charge against me, bring it to a court of law and bring me 
up for indictment. If you don't have a criminal charge, then all you 
have been doing, just like this committee did in 1957, is force me to 
lose my job as at Bethlehem Steel, and that's all. 

Mr. Pool. Would you ask him another question, Counselor? 

Mr. HiTZ. I asked him a question a little while ago, and this is what 
happened. My next question : How long have you been in your pres- 
ent place of employment ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I have already indicated I will not answer any 
further questions, based on the fact that I have already taken the con- 
stitutional privileges afforded me. I will not cooperate with this com- 
mittee in one single degree. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Wolkenstein, are you acquainted with Andrew 
Berecz ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I won't cooperate with this man. I won't answer 
any questions. I have already taken the constitutional privilege. I 
stand on my previous statement. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you ever attended meetings of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I stand on my previous statement. 

Mr. HiTZ. I haven't finished my question. Have you ever attended 
Communist Party meetings with Mr. Berecz ? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. I stand on my previous statement, and all this 
committee is continuing to do is harass me. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you expelled from the Communist Party, in ap- 
proximately 1961, by Mr. Davis from New York headquarters? 

Mr. Wolkenstein. It is quite clear that I already have stated and 
I stand on my previous statement and that this is just a sheer w^aste 
of time, wasting the taxpayers' money by people wdio are not con- 
cerned with the rights of the workingman, Negro or white, not con- 
cerned with helping people. 

Mr. Pool. Ask the next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. ]Mr. Chairman, before asking the next question, I would 
like to suggest that unless there is legal objection made temperately 
and briefly by reference to other objections or by stating them again, 
but briefly and temperately, and if this witness enters into an attack 



1610 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

upon the procedures of this committee or the committee, that it attempt 
to restore order, that it inform this witness that further attacks and 
statements not relevant to legal objections and not by way of summary 
of those previously given, will constitute a contempt of this committee, 
and I am going to recommend that this committee take steps to see 
whether or not this is a contempt that is prosecutable as attempts made 
by Eugene Dennis and Gerhart Eisler. My question : Are you a mem- 
ber of the Progressive Labor Movement party or organization? 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN. As I liave already previously indicated, I have 
taken my constitutional privileges and will refuse to answer any ques- 
tion that this infamous committee has to offer. 

Mr. HiTz. Next question : Do you know Mortimer Scheer, Gertrude 
Alexander, and Walter Zvaleko to be members of the Progressive 
Labor Movement party or organization ? 

Mr. WoLKENSTEiN.I have already answered the question as I will 
answer all further questions, that I have taken all the constitutional 
privileges afforded me and I do not cooperate with this committee. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this wit- 
ness. 

Mr. Poor.. You are excused. 

We will recess until 7 :30 tonight. 

(Whereupon, at 6 :05 p.m. Wednesday, April 29, 1964, the subcom- 
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 7 :30 p.m. the same day) . 

EVENING SESSION, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 29, 1964 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 7:45 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, 
chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Johansen, 
fchord, and Ashbrook.) 

Mr. Pool. This committee will be in order. Take your seats. 

Mr. HiTZ. The next witness is Seymour Rudner. 

'TESTIMONY OF SEYMOUR RUDNER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
STANLEY FAULKNER 

Mr. HiTz. Will you stand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Rudner. Before I am sworn, I have no statement of my own to 
make, but, however, I have some statements here which I would like 
to enter into the record before I am sworn. These are statements, 
not of my own, but an editorial from the Buffalo Courier Express, a 
statement by the Buffalo Board of Rabbis, a statement by the Catholic 
Counsel on Civil Liberties, and a statement by the Episcopal Diocese 
of western New York. May I be permitted to enter the statements 
into the record before we proceed ? 

Mr. Pool. We will take those under advisement, if you will give 
^hem to counsel. We will check on them at a later date. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Rudner. I do. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Rudner, will you give your full name, please ? 

Mr. Rudner. My name is Seymour Rudner, R-u-d-n-e-r. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1611 

Mr. HiTz. Spell your lirst name. 

Mr. RuDNER. S-e-y-in-o-ii-r. 

Mr. Ilrrz. Are you also known as Sy ? 

Mr. EuDNEK. That is correct. 

JNlr. HiTz. Where and when were you born, Mr. Rudner ? 

Mr. RuDNEK. Miiy I have your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. HiTZ. My name is William Hitz. I am counsel for the Un- 
American Activities Connnitiee. 

JMr. RuDNEK. Mr. Hitz, I am going to decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds that a witness in a criminal proceeding may not be 
compelled to be a witness against himself. 

Mr. Hitz. Have you stated your full and complete objection to that 
question ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Rudner. Would you repeat the question please? 

Mr. Hitz. When you stated your objection, is that the full and 
complete objection that you have to answering the question? 

Mr. Rudner. That is correct. 

Mr. Hitz. When you say that in a criminal case you are not re- 
quired to make the answer, are you suggesting that this hearing is a 
criminal case or so that you need not resort to answers that may 
incriminate you under the hf th amendment ? 

Mr. Rudner. I have been advised that, under the protection of the 
Hfth amendment, I cannot bo compelled to be a witness against myself, 
and I stand on that. 

Mr. Hitz. You are correct in that. Would you please give us a re- 
sume of your educational background ? 

Mr. Rudner. I will give the conmiittee nothing except a statement 
that 1 have already made and I will repeat those grounds if you wish 
me to, but I will decline to answer that question and any other ques- 
tion you may ask me on the same precise grounds. 

Mr. Hitz. That is, the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Rudner. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool, Next question. 

Mr. Hitz. Next question : What is your em]doyment background ? 

Mr. Rudner. I decline to answer that question on (he grounds which 
1 previously have stated. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. Hitz. Do you receive any funds at this time by reason of em- 
]>lovment in anyplace or orgaliization that is in part subsidized by 
Federal funds? 

Mr. Rudner. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds 
whicli I stated previously. 

Mr. Pool. Next quest ion . 

Mr. Hitz. Wliere are you presently employed, sir? 

Mr. Ritdner. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
which T have already stated. 

Mr. Hitz. Do you know Andrew Berecz ? 

Mr. Rudner. t decline to answer this question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Hitz. Would, you mind if I ask the question before you decline? 

Mr. Rudner. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Hitz. Do you decline to answer the question whether you knew 
Andrew Berecz who testified this morning ? 



1612 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. RuDNER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. On what grounds ? 

Mr. RuDNER. On the grounds which I have previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Is it not true that in the hitter part of 1961 and in the 
early part of 1962 you were appointed a member of the secretariat of the 
Communist Party in Buffalo, which group became the ranking body 
of the Communist Party in Buffalo after the expulsion of Mortimer 
Scheer from the party ? 

Mr. RuDNER. 1 decline to answer that question as well on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr, Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is it not true that in July 1962 you were a member of the 
secretariat of the Communist Party in Buffalo, along with Marty 
Zelman and Anthony Mnssa ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons 
as stated previously. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you now a member of the Communist Party, Mr. 
Rudner ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the grounds which 
I have already given to you. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is it not true that you were appointed to your present 
position in the Communist Party by Betty Gannett Tormey, as a 
result of a meeting held in the home of Marty Zelman in September 
1962? 

Mr. Rudner. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Is there any degree of cooperation between your group 
and that of Mortimer Scheer of the Progressive Labor Movement 
group or organization on matters involving Cuba? 

Mr. RuDNER. My counsel would like to Iniow what group you are 
referring to ? 

Mr. HiTz. I am referring to an organization known as Progressive 
Labor, Progressive Labor Movement, or Progressive Labor group. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr, Rudner. Would you repeat the question ? 

Mr. HiRTz. The question is : Is there any degree of cooperation be- 
tween the group in which you are a member and that of Mortimer 
Scheer of the Progressive Labor Movement, party, or organization 
on matters involving Cuba ? 

Mr. Rudner. I would lilce counsel for the committee to state what 
group he is referring to ? 

Mr. HiTz. I am referring to the two groups, one in which it is be- 
lieved that you belong and that in which I am asking you, are you in 
a degree of cooperation 

]\Ir, Rudner, Would you specify the group that you say I belong to ? 

Mr. HiTz. Yes. The Communist Party. 

Mr. Rudner. Of course, I decline to answer that. 

Mr. HiTz. My question is clear ; is it not ? 

Mr. Rudner. Oh, very clear. 

Mr. Pool. On the same grounds previously stated ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1613 

Mr. RuDNER. On the same gTouiids previously stated. 

Mr, Pool. Next question. 

Mr. Hrrz. Is there a degree of cooperation between your group, 
which I mean the Communist Party, and the Progressive Labor group 
on the matter of Red China ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you familiar with the group known as the profes- 
sional group of the Communist Party in the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you a meml)er of the Communist Party? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
as I previously stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. Are you employed and connected with the Health Re- 
search, Incorporated ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
as I previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Is Healtli Research, Incorporated a subsidiary or an 
adjunct of the Roswell Park Memorial Institute? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
which I previously stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. When did you come to Buffalo? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you come from New York City ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question, as well, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you been a colonizer in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. I haven't asked it yet. Have you been a colonizer in 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. Have you ever w^orked for the American Radiator 
Company ? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question, as well, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you now studying at the State University of Buffalo, 
KewYork? 

Mr. RuDNER. I decline to answer that question ; same grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Further questions, Comisel ? 

Mr. HiTz. I do. Mr. Rudner, are you aware whether or not the 
Roswell Park Memorial Institute is the recipient of any Federal funds 
at this time? 

Mr. Rudner. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. Or whether the Health Research, Incorporated, is the re- 
cipient of such funds? 

Mr. Rudner. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The last declination, you say you decline to answer the 
question. On what grounds; ou the grounds previously stated? 

Mr. Rudner. Yes, the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 



1614 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Chairman, one moment. Can we have as an 
exhibit added to the testimony of this witness either an original or 
facsimile of the white card that has been used for gaining admission 
to these hearings? I raised this on the basis of my opening statement 
to this committee, that there has been a viohition of the rules of this 
committee. 

Mr. Pool. We will take that under advisement. Turn it over to 
counsel. Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTZ. Gertrude Alexander. 

Mr. Chairman, I liave made an agreement, now formalized with 
counsel, that we will call tliat client tomorrow. 

Mr. Pool. Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Will the chairman indulge me a moment, please ? 

Mr. Pool. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. Helen Schwartz, please. 

TESTIMONY OF HELEN SCHWARTZ, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

lEA GOLLOBIN 

Mr. HiTz. You are Mr. GoUobin, are you, sir ? 

Mr. GoLLOBiN. Yes, 

Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to make a statement. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the witness be sworn, Mr. Chairman, 

Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to make several legal objections to 
this hearing. 

Mr. HiTz. Go right ahead and make it, 

Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to say, first of all, that I feel this hear- 
ing is illegally held on several grounds : one is that it is unconstitu- 
tional, 

Mr, JoHANSEN, I wonder if the vritness would bring the microphone 
a little closer. Thank you, 

Mrs, Schwartz, On the grounds of the first amendment, which 
states that : 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or pro- 
hibiting the free exercise thereof ; or of abridging the freedom of speech, or of 
the press ; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the 
Government for a redress of grievances. 

On the grounds of the sixth amendment which states : 

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and 
public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime 
shall have been committed, which district shall liave been previously ascertained 
by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation ; to be con- 
fronted with the witnesses against him ; to have the compulsory process for ob- 
taining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his 
defense. 

On the grounds of the ninth amendment, which states : 

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed 
to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 

And I maintain that the rights of my family, my right of privacy 
and right of my beliefs and my husband's beliefs are being violated, 
and the purposes of this committee 

Mr, Pool. This is going to be a warning, if there are any demon- 
strations, I am going to ask the marshal to eject the ones that are 
demonstrating. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1615 

Mrs. Schwartz. The powers on the grounds of article X, I thmk 
the gentleman would do well to reread, the Bill of Rights : 

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor pro- 
hibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. 

We, the People. 

On the grounds of the 14th amendment, section 1, which in part 
states : 

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or 
immunities of citizens of the United States ; nor shall any State deprive any per- 
son of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law ; nor deny to any 
person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. 

You gentlemen are using extra legal methods. 
On the grounds of the fifth amendment : 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, 
unless on a presentment of indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising 
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of 
war or public danger ; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be 
twice put in jeopardy of life or limb ; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case 
to be a witness against himself ; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, with- 
out due process of law ; nor shall private property be taken for public use, with- 
out just compensation. 

I am not finished, if the gentlemen would be patient. 

I claim that this hearing is illegal on the grounds that this is not a 
public hearing, that special passes were issued, that there was not 
freedom for everybody to come into this courtroom on a first-come- 
first-serve basis, and on those grounds, I ask this hearing to be quashed. 

Mr. Pool. Your objection is overruled, and if you will now stand, I 
will swear you in. 

Mrs. Schwartz. There are two more grounds that I neglected to 
mention. 

Mr. Pool. Make them short. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Article III, section 1, of the Constitution, which 
states : 

The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, 
and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and 
establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their 
oflBces during good behavior, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, 
a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. 

I also state that I do not feel that this hearing has a legislative pur- 
pose, and it is used as a smokescreen to put fear in the American people 
and the people of Buffalo fighting for the things that they need. 

Mr. Pool. Are you finished with your objections ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Pool. Overruled. Now if you will stand, I will swear you in. 

Do you solenmly swear that the testimony you are about to give be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I do. 

Mr. HiTz. Mrs. Schwartz, in listening to the objections that you 
made to the committee prior to your being sworn just now, I observe 
that one of the objections was that you have not been afforded an op- 
portunity to call witnesses on your behalf. You were sent a letter — 
as was every other witness who was subpenaed here — on approximately 



1616 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

April 10, 1964, by tlie chairman of the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, in which you were advised that you would be given, under 
a rule of the House of Representatives, an opportunity to voluntarily 
appear before the committee this morning at 9 o'clock, if you desired 
to do so. You were not compelled to do so, and it did not stand as a 
summons or subpena, and at that time the committee would entertain 
any request that you might make for the summoning by the committee 
of witnesses to appear on your behalf. The committee was here in 
attendance at 9 o'clock this morning. It received no reply then, or 
earlier by mail, to the opportunity that was offered to you. I make 
that comment and observe, however, in conclusion that the Chair has 
already mled on the invalidity of your objections to the proceedings 
affording you an answer, a reason to refuse to answer. I will now ask 
you the first question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Excuse me for a moment. 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 
Mr. Pool. Proceed with the questioning. Counsel. 
Mr. HiTz. Mrs. Schwartz, I am going to ask you the question. 
Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to comment on what counsel has just 
stated. I believe that this is proper ; that, as I remember, it does not 
alter the fact that witnesses here do not have a chance to cross-examine 
an informer and a stool pigeon who happened to name some 48 people 
this morning. 

(At this point, Mr. Pool left the hearing room.) 

Mr. IciiORD (presiding) . I respectfully request the lady, and I know 
she is a lady, to respectfully answer the questions of counsel. The 
preceding witness did not tell the committee anything, but at least he 
was very courteous. 

Mrs. Schwartz. I don't feel that these Congressmen deserve the kind 
of courtesy that smears me and my family and smears our name across 
the newspapers. 

Mr. IcHORD. The next question, Mr. Counsel. 
Mr. HiTz. Mrs. Schwartz, will you please give your full name? 
Mrs. Schwartz. Helen Schwartz. 
Mr. HiTz. Your address, please? 
Mrs. Schwartz. 117 Groveland Street. 
Mr. HiTZ. Are you Mrs. Helen Schwartz ? 
Mrs. Schwartz. I just stated so. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you bom, Mrs. Schwartz ? 
Mrs. Schwartz. I really don't see what this has to do with Congress 
and laws of the Congress. 

Mr. HiTz. It is part of the identification of you and your activities. 
That makes it relevant and, therefore, pertinent and, therefore, a pos- 
sible contempt citation if you don't answer it. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Don't you think that you gentlemen, if you really 

wanted to 

Mr. IcHORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. 
Mrs. Schwartz. I was born in Brooklyn in 1929. 
Mr. HiTZ. When did you come to Buffalo? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to say again that I did not feel that 
the questions are pertinent to any laws and we are wasting time and 
taxpayers' money of this city and of the country, I do not feel that 
the gentlemen here have to listen. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1617 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the chairman direct the witness to answer 
the question, and let's get along. 

Mr. IcHORD. I think that everyone will agree that the question is 
relevant. Will the lady please answer the question? If not, the 
Chair will direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Will the reporter please repeat the question? 

Mr. IcnORD. Madam Reporter, will you read back the question to 
Mrs. Schwartz? 

Let me assure the lady that the Chair desires to protect every 
constitutional right that you have. 

Mrs. Schwartz. I don't share that opinion with Mr. Ichord. 

[Disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Ichord. Sir, this is a committee of Congress, a duly constituted 
committee of Congress, elected by the people of the United States 
from their various districts. We would like for the gentleman to be 
courteous enough to remain quiet and let the committee transact its 
business. I assure you that I am going to protect the rights of every 
witness before this committee, and if the gentleman disturbs the ac- 
tion of the committee, he will be ejected if he does it one more time. Is 
that clearly understood, sir? 

Now Madam Reporter, will you read the question to Mrs. Schwartz ? 

Mr. HiTZ. If the chairman please, I think I can more rapidly 
frame the question. 

Mr. Ichord. So state. Counsel. 

Mr. HiTz. What brought you to Buffalo? 

Mrs. Schwartz. The good weather. 

Mr. HiTz. And when was that accomplished ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. When was what accomplished ? 

Mr. HiTz. When was the good weather coinciding with your arrival 
here ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I do not understand the question. Counsel. 

Mr. Hitz. "Wliat was the cause of your coming from Brooklyn to 
Buffalo? 

Mre. Schwartz. We had heard what a wonderful city this was. 

Mr. Hn^z. Are you a member of the Communist Party, Mrs. 
Schwartz ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I would like to decline to answer that question on 
several gromids. I feel that the question is unconstitutional, as the 
gentlemen of this committee know and continue to flagrantly violate 
the Constitution, and I feel that it is my duty to uphold the Consti- 
tution and, in doing so, I would like to claim the following amend- 
ments to the Constitution, if I may. 

Mr. Ichord. The lady is very well informed on her rights. May 
we say, while the lady is giving her various grounds, that I am in- 
formed by the counsel that we did make an agreement with your 
attorney that we would put you on ahead of other witnesses as a mat- 
ter of courtesy to your attorney, so in stating your grounds, would 
you please make them as brief as possible? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I don't believe that happens to be true. 

Mr. IcHOKD. I was so advised by counsel. Proceed. Proceed with 
your grounds for refusal to answer the question, Mrs. Schwartz. 



1618 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mrs. Schwartz. I refuse to answer on the grounds of article I, which 

says: 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or pro- 
hibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the 
press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, is it necessary for the witness to go 
into this again ? Should she not cooperate to the extent, for her own 
convenience ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Convenience ? It isn't a question of convenience. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Let me finish. In order to complete this as rapidly 
as possible, incorporate the reasons that you gave previously to fully 
protect yourself. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair would advise the lady — and I am sure that 
she well knows her rights already — that the Supreme Court has held 
that amendments number 1 and number 15 and niunber 9 and the 
other constitutional amendments that have been cited hj the witnesses 
today have been held by the Supreme Court not to be valid grounds for 
refusal to answer. I am sure that the lady can go ahead and, in order 
to expedite the work of the committee, state her grounds as briefly as 
possible as a matter of courtesy to her attorney. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, after the witness and her counsel have 
had an opportunity to confer, I have a statement to make for the chair- 
man with respect to the imderstanding that I had with counsel. I will 
make it after this conference is over. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Gollobin, I observe the conference with your client 
is over. I want to remind you of an agreement which I laiow that you 
and I had, to the effect that if we call at this time, out of order, this 
witness, Mrs. Schwartz, at your request, that the witness would make 
the objections she saw fit to make, simply and briefly. It is my opinion 
and my recommendation to the chairman of the committee that that 
is not now being done. I propose, unless this course of action is 
changed by your witness, to recommend to the committee that this wit- 
ness be excused until we can reach other witnesses who, we have 
reasons to believe, will be more conservative in the consumption of 
the time of this body at this particular session this evening. Now, I 
am going to ask another question. 

Mr. Gollobin. I do wish to make a statement in connection with 
your comment, because as I understand it, in talking to you a moment 
ago before this witness was called, when I simply stated that she was 
here this evening — though you had agreed previously that she wouldn't 
have to be — and her husband, you then stated that you did not think 
that she would even be called this evening ; and I must say, she and 
her husband have remained here with us and were taken a bit by sur- 
prise, not that they are unwilling to testify at this time ; they are glad 
to. Now, I am not in a position to dictate to my client that she should 
not conduct herself after I have advised her of her rights. They 
must do what in their judgment they see fit to do. I am not their 
dictator. I am only their attorney. They have to act as their judg- 
ment dictates after they have gotten legal advice, and I cannot be put 
in a position of seeming to be compelled to advise my client to abandon 
a course, as she chooses, on the price of any other that I^ am violating 
some understanding which I, in fact, dispute that I did make, and 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1619 

I call your attention, when I did go up to you, you did say — and it's 
practically in the same words — "Let nature take its course. How can 
you expect that I would have these witnesses this evening ?" 

Mr. IcHORD. With perhaps that exchange, perhaps the lady will not 
be so dilatory in her answers. Proceed with your answer. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you. Mrs. Schwartz 

Mr. IcHORD. Are you repeating the question, Mr. Counsel ? I don't 
believe the lady answered the last question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. What was the last question. Counsel ? 

Mr. IcHORD (to reporter). Read the question back to the lady. 

(The reporter read the pending question.) 

Mr. HiTZ. I ask permission to ask another question. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. Let's start all over again. 

Mr. HiTZ. What is your educational background ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I really don't feel that this has anything 

Mr. Ichord. Mrs. Schwartz, that is a very reasonable question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. You may feel it's reasonable. I feel this whole 
thing is unreasonable. 

Mr. Ichord. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. I was graduated from high school. 

Mr. HiTZ. Is that your complete educational background from that 
time on ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. No, I had an incomplete college record. 

Mr. Hitz. By that, do you mean you did not graduate from college ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. That is correct ; that is what I mean. 

Mr. Hitz. Where did you go to college ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. This is very important to the work of the Congress. 

Mr. Ichord. I direct the lady to answer the question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. I went to Brooklyn College. 

Mr. Ichord. Proceed. I did not understand the answer of the lady. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Brooklyn College, a free college which this city 
could use. 

Mr. Hitz. Are you employed now, Mrs. Schwartz ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I am a housewife ; unpaid labor. 

Mr. Hitz. Have you ever been gainfully employed, Mrs. Schwartz ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I have worked at several jobs ; yes. 

Mr. Hitz. Would you please name them for us ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I could name you some; I cannot recollect them all. 

Mr. Hitz. Will you name them in reverse order, that is, name first 
the last one that you had and go backwards ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I don't know if I can accomplish that. I will 
attempt to give you some of my jobs. I don't keep very careful records 
of this, which you gentlemen seem to do. I think the last job that I 
had was working with W.A. Case in this city on Elm Street. 

Mr. Hitz. Wliat do they do ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. They were a plumbing concern ; plumbing supplies. 

Mr. Hitz. And the next before that ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I really can't recall. 

Mr. Hitz. Are you acquainted with Andrew Berecz, who was the 
witness this morning ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I decline to answer that on all the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Hitz. Does that include the fifth amendment ? 



1620 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mrs. Schwartz. It includes all of the articles previously stated, in- 
cluding the fifth amendment. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, this is not responsive. I asked the ques- 
tion. Does it include the fifth amendment ? The answer to that does 
not include what she has already stated. 

Mr. IcHORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mrs. Schwartz. If comisel and Mr. Ichord would let me finish, I 
will finish the statement instead of being interrupted in the middle of 
a sentence. 

Mr. IcHORD. The question was. Did that include the fifth amend- 
ment ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Yes, and I would have answered that, sir, please. 

Mr. IcHORD. And the Chair will accept that as a valid reason. 

Mrs. Schwartz. Please do not put words in my mouth. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel, with the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you present when Mr. Berecz testified this morning? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Yes, I was. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever attended Communist Party meetings at 
which Mr. Berecz was present ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I decline to answer that questioi\ on the same 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Hitz. Are you acquainted with Joseph Pranis ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Would this committee have me an informer? I 
decline to be an informer. I would refuse to name any names. I 
have a conscience, unlike some other people. 

Mr. Hitz. On what grounds ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on all of the 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Ichord. Proceed with your question. Counsel. 

Mr. Hitz. The committee has received testimony that on January 
15, 1960, you were at a closed Communist Party meeting at the home 
of Joseph Pranis ; do you affirm or deny that ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I think that this committee is a mockery. It serves 
no legislative purpose. 

Mr. IcHORD. The answer of the lady is not responsive. Will you 
please reply to the question of counsel, Mrs. Schwartz ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I neither affirm or deny that question. 

Mr. Hitz. Is it a fact? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on all the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. Mrs. Schwartz, are you a member of an organization 
sometimes known as Progressive Labor, Progressive Labor party, or 
Progressive Labor Movement ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. Why don't all the good gentlemen here— — ■ 

Mr. Ichord. Mrs. Schwartz, the question is 

Mrs. Schwartz. I heard the question. 

Mr. IcHORD. Are you a member of the Progressive Labor Move- 
ment ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I am answering the question, sir, in my way. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. Hitz. And the answer is what ? 

Mrs. Schwartz. I decline to answer that ciucsdoii on the grounds 
previously stated. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1621 

Mr. IciiORD. Thank you very much. 

Mr. HiTz. That is all the questions I have, Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. IcHORD. The witness will be excused if there are no questions 
by members of the committee. The witness is excused. 
Are you ready to call your next witness, Mr. Counsel ? 
Mr. HiTz. Mr. Walter Zvaleko. 
Mr. IciioRD. Raise your hand and be sworn, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WALTEE J. ZVALEKO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

IRA GOLLOBIN 

Mr. Zvaleko. Before I take my oath, I would like to challenge the 
right of this committee. The members of this committee were elected 
to Congress, and they took an oath to uphold the Constitution and they 
violated every step of the way. They violated the first amendment by 
where the people have the right to associate with whom they wish. 

Mr. IciiORD. Just a minute. How long will this statement take? 

Mr. Zvaleko. It won't take long. 

Mr. IciiORD. Before we get into your statement, I notice — are you a 
folk singer ? 

Mr. Zvaleko. Yes. Would you like to hear me sing ? 

Mr. IciiORD. What do you play, a guitar ? 

Mr. Zvaleko. That is right. Later on I will play for you. 

Mr. IcHORD. I would like to hear you, but not now, not while we are 
conducting business of your Government and my Government, and 
now will the gentleman proceed to state his grounds. After 10 o'clock, 
I would be glad to hear the gentleman. Proceed, sir, and state your 
objections. The Chair is going to protect every constitutional right 
you have, and I might say that I hope you have the courage of your 
convictions to tell us all that you think. Proceed. 

Mr. Zvaleko. As I started to say, I don't think this committee has 
the right to ask anybody to take an oath. I think that the members of 
this committee have violated their oath when they were elected to Con- 
gress. They took an oath to uphold the Constitution. They have not 
upheld that oath to the Constitution, and it is up to the American 
people to do something about it. 

Mr. IcHORD. I think that is a matter of opinion. 

Mr. Zvaleko. It is a matter of opinion, but there are opinions that 
are expressed all over the place, and I think we have the right to 
opinions too. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I plead for the permission to interrupt 
this witness, and I desire to make a statement to this witness and to 
the chairman and to the committee, that it is unquestionably the law 
that has been established in the Federal courts, that a w^itness is en- 
titled to make legal objections and that they must be made in a brief 
and temperate way. That may be done under some of the decisions 
even before they are sworn. It has been my recommendation to this 
committee that if that right be permitted to this witness and others 
that this witness has already violated the requirement that the cases 
impose on us in that regard, because I do not believe that the statement 
that he has already launched into is either brief or temperate. I say 
again to the conmiittee that there are successful prosecutions of con- 
tempt in several cases for people who have overstepped the confines of 



1622 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

the rights that may be asserted by reason of the statement of a brief 
legal objection. If this witness persists in this, I would like the op- 
portunity to interrupt and to suggest to the committee that he be con- 
sidered for possible contempt proceedings by way of interruption of 
anything further. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has very definitely been indulgent with the 
witness. Let me assure the witness again that the Chair desires to 
protect every constitutional right that you have, and the Chair will 
zealously do that, and I ask the gentleman to cooperate and give objec- 
tions, valid objections. Proceed. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I will get on with the legal questions. I challenge 
this committee on the basis of the first amendment, which reads : 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or pro- 
hibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the 
press ; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Gov- 
ernment for a redress of grievances. 

I say that this committee violates that amendment to the Constitu- 
tion. 

I say that this committee violates the sixth amendment to the Con- 
stitution, and it reads as follows : 

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and 
public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall 
have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by 
law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation ; to be con- 
fronted with the witnesses against him ; to have compulsory process for obtaining 
witnesses in favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. 

And I know what counsel is going to read me, and I heard him read it 
to the other witnesses, but he has not given anybody the right to cross- 
examination. So we can't pick and choose on these things. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Zvaleko, please bear with me while I make a comment 
to you and to the Chair. I don't believe, as counsel for this committee, 
that you as a witness have a right to continue to read the statements in 
the Constitution and elsewhere, that you feel bolster the legal position 
that you desire to take prior to being sworn. It is my view and advice 
to the committee that if you care to resort to the first amendment, you 
may do so, and that if you care to read it, you may do so, within reason. 
I think we have gone beyond that, and I would like to suggest to the 
committee that he be cautioned that if he resorts to other constitu- 
tional amendments or doctrines of law that he feels may be a reason 
why he need not answer or even be sworn, that he state what they are, 
but he need not read them to this committee, 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair wall rule. 

Mr. Zvaleko. I object to that. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will rule, and I think we have carried the 
gentleman's statement far enough. In view of the Supreme Court 
cases, case after case, holding that the grounds stated by the gentleman 
are not valid objections to the jurisdiction of the committee, I will have 
to overrule the objections of the witness; and in view of the fact that 
this is not a jury trial, this is a fact-finding investigation committee 
of the United States Congress, and in view of those findings, Mr. 
Zvaleko 

Mr. Zvaleko. "Zvaleko" is how it's pronounced. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1623 

Mr. IcHORD. I shall ask that you rise and be sworn. You will be 
able to invoke your constitutional rights. I direct, sir, that you be 
sworn. 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I would like to finish my legal objections. 

Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has overruled your objection. Proceed. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I think you are violating a very basic right that every 
American shall have. 

Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will be able to state that many times. 

Mr, ZvALEKo. I would like a ruling as to the relevancy of this hear- 
mg and in relation to the Constitution. 

Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will be given a right to state all of the 
constitutional objections at the proper time. Stand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I do. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Would you please give your full name ? 

Mr, ZvALEKo. I would like to object at this time to some of the things 
that took place during the course of the day at this so-called public 
hearing. The fact that this was a request made for a larger room to be 
used, and this request was denied even though all of the people who 
were subpenaed obviously were in favor of it. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Is there a pending question ? 

Mr. HiTZ. There is. I asked him for his full name. 

Mr, IcHORD, I direct the witness to answer the question, 

Mr, ZvALEKO, I W' as told that after I was sworn in 

Mr, IcHORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr, ZvALEKo, Walter Zvaleko. 

Mr, HiTz, Will you spell it? 

Mr, Zvaleko, Z-v-a-1-e-k-o, 

Mr, HiTz, "What is your addi"ess, sir ? 

Mr. Zvaleko. I really fail to see the relevancy of this proposed 
legislation, 

Mr. IcHORD. There is no question about the relevancy of the question 
posed by counsel, I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr, Zvaleko, Do you want to open my family 

Mr, IcHORD, I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr, Zvaleko. 132 Glenwood, 

Mr, HiTz. Wlien and where were you born, sir ? 

Mr, Zvaleko. Now, what has that possibly to do with anything that 
is taking place ? 

Mr. HiTz. I won't think it needs any comment. I request the Chair 
to order the answer. 

JMr, Zvaleko, I received a subpena. I came here on behalf of that 
subpena, 

Mr. IciiORD. Proceed with your next question, Mr. Counsel, 

Mr, HiTZ, May we have an answer, Mr, Chairman, to the pending 
question, when and where was he born? I think perhaps I did not 
make it clear. The question is : When and where ? 

Mr. IciiORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr, Zvaleko, I think that it has been stated that these questions 
are purposes, or are for purposes of identification. Now it seems to 

36-414—64 8 



1624 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

me that I am here on siibpena. You know who I am. I have come at 
your request by the subpena. I didn't ask to come here and I have 
told you my name and my address. This is certainly identification 
enough. I am sure that you will have it in your records anyway. 

Mr. IcHORD. May I advise the witness that this in accordance with 
the procedure of the committee. The question is relevant. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I was born in Greenpoint Hospital. 

Mr. IcHORD. Under the penalties of the Constitution, the Chair, 
and I don't like to do this, I will have to direct you to answer the 
question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I was born in Greenpoint Hospital, 1931. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliat is your educational background ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I graduated high school. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you go further than high school? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I did not. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat is your employment background? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. What has that to do with anything? I would like 
to know when this committee of Congress is going to deal with the 
problems that face the people. 

Mr. IcHORD. The question is very simple. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Are the people interested in where I work ? 

Mr. IcHORD. The question is. What is your employment background ? 
I direct the answer to that question, 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I have been a worker all my life. I was born into a 
working family. 

Mr. IcpiORD. And so was I. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. And I am proud of this, as I am sure you are, and 
I have had many jobs in my life and I have worked hard and earned 
little while I have made a few bosses rich, and I am a little tired of it, 
frankly; so if you got any proposals, I will be happy to accept 
them. 

Mr. HiTZ. I ask the Chair to demand the answer. 

Mr. IciioRD. I am sure the witness realizes that the answ^er was not 
responsive to the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I told you, I have worked many different jobs and 
places. 

Mr. IcHORD. What specific jobs has the witness worked at? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. AVliy is this necessaiy? I would really like you to 
explain why this is necessary. 

Mr. IcHORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Which one? 

Mr. IcHORD. What specifically has the witness worked at ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I have worked as a laborer. I have worked as an 
arc welder. I have worked as a truck driver. I have worked as a 
pipefitter. I have done many jobs. 

Mr. HiTZ. What was your last employment? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. What w^as your last employment? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Are you presuming that I am going to be fired ? 

(At this point, Mr. Pool returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the witness start answering the questions 
instead of wisecracking to the counsel, and I ask the chairman to 
direct him to answer the question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1625 

Mr. Pool (presiding). I so direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliat was your last employment? 

Mr, ZvALEKO. This is strange ; how can I answer that? I am work- 
ing on a job. The one before this one, you mean? 

Mr. HiTZ. I ask the chairman to demand the answer. 

Mr. Pool. I will direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I don't understand the question. If you can make me 
understand it, I will answer it. I don't know what you are looking 
for. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, I think the answer is clear. I think we 
can stand on a contempt proceeding. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I have not refused to answer this question. 

Mr. HiTz. I am making a request to the Chair that will lead further 
in this proceeding and that we stand on the record that we have on 
this question. I ask that the Chair give final demand for answer to 
that question. 

Mr. Pool. This is the final time. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Lippes Bakery. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you spell the name of the bakery ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. L-i-p-p-e-s. 

Mr. HiTz. How long have you worked for Lippes Bakery ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Oh, about 8 months. 

Mr. HiTz. Where are you employed now, sir ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Is that question designed to guarantee that I shall 
lose my employment and that my family shall have to fall back on 
other resources, welfare or something ? 

Mr. HiTZ. I ask the Chair to demand the answer. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I ask the Chair to rule that this question is irrelevant 
to these proceedings. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I worked for the National Biscuit Company. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you here this morning when Andrew Berecz testi- 
fied? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Yes, I was here when the "fink" talked. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you hear his testimony ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I fell asleep through part of it. 

Mr. Pool. Did you answer the question ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. Yes. 

Mr. HiTz. He testified that you were a member of the Communist 
Party with him ; is that correct ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I am not going to be an informer even on a rat like 
that. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment and 
I won't read them to the pleasure of the committee. I am sure they 
don't like to hear these amendments. On the gromids of the 6th 
amendment and the ground of the 9th and on the grounds of the 10th 
and 14th and, last of all, on the grounds of this amendment which was 
put in the Constitution to protect the innocent, which this committee 
has tried to make appear that people who are guilty use the very 
amendment that is the very foundation of this Constitution, the 5th 
amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 



1626 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Oh, to save time and trouble, I will decline on a previ- 
ous grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party « 

Mr. ZvALEKO. The Communist movement in this country came out 
of the thirties when people were out of work and looking for answers 
to problems, when the Negro people were being subjugated 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Counsel didn't ask for any discourse. The counsel 
asked the witness a question, and I ask the Chair to direct him to 
answer. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you attend a meeting of the Communist Party or a 
group of the party in this Buffalo area in October of 1961, at which 
there was present Louis Weinstock and Benjamin Davis from New 
York City, which resulted in a discussion relative to your dismissal 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. Will you repeat the question, please. I'm sorry. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you present at a meeting of a group of Communist 
Party members in the Buffalo area on or about the month of October 
1961, at which were present Louis Weinstock and Davis, Benjamin 
Davis, during which meeting there was a discussion respecting the dis- 
missal of you and others from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I would like to know when this committee is going to 
investigate some of the Fascist movements in this country that are 
planning to overthrow this Government. Why is all of the attention 
made to the left ? 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Were you and Mr. Scheer, Mr. Wolkenstein, previously 
identified for this record today, expelled from the Communist Party 
of the Erie County branch ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated, 
all the grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you a" member of the Progressive Labor group, party, 
or organization ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. The Progressive Labor Movement is a new Socialist 
movement that is looking to solve the problems of the American people, 
trying to free the Negro people from the bondage that they face in the 
South. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I decline to answer because I don't recognize this 
committee although, if the American people want to know what I 
think, I will tell them and I will tell the reporters, but as far as this 
committee is concerned, I decline to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know Milton Rosen ? 

Mr. ZvALEKo. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1627 

Mr. HiTz. Have you applied for reinstatement in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. This is a very nice question, isn't it, a very loaded 
question. Wliat a sweet question that is. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever been present at a meeting of the Commu- 
nist Party with members in this area at which also w^as present Paul 
Sporn ? 

Mr. ZvALEKO. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Zvaleko, I am about to put a question to you. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. Am I to understand, from the answer you put to a previ- 
ous question, that you claim to be well aware of the aims of the Pro- 
gressive Labor Movement or organization ? 

Mr. Zvaleko. I think that the American people owe it to them- 
selves to find out about every single movement in this country. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Zvaleko. I decline to tell the committee anything I know. I 
decline on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions. 

Mr. Zvaleko. I would like to play my guitar now, if it's all right. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. Call the next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Schwartz. 

TESTIMONY OF TOBIAS L. SCHWAETZ, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

IRA GOLLOBIN 

Mr. Schwartz. Before I say one word, I want to know if this table 
has been bugged ? It was charged by counsel in 1957 that bugs were 
planted in this table, and I want to be sure that that is not true now 
because I will not have my right of counsel violated. Now, I want 
this table examined right this instant. In addition to this, I want to 
make another statement, and that statement is that I consider this 
committee entirely illegal, entirely unconstitutional. It violates the 
1st amendment, the 4th amendment, the 5th amendment, the 10th 
amendment, and the 9th amendment. I do not recognize your author- 
ity. You men, many of you are elected illegally. You have no right 
here. I stand on the theory of Albert Einstein, and that spirit is pre- 
cisely what he stated, that we should decline to answer this cormnittee. 

Mr. Pool. If we have another demonstration like that, I am sure 
there will be a contempt of Congress recommendation. 

(Witness shouted. Chairman gaveled for order. It was impossible 
to record what further was said by the witness or the subcommittee 
chairman until the following :) 

Mr. Pool. Call your next witness. 

Marshal, remove the witness. 

[Witness Schwartz was removed from the hearing room.] 

Mr. Pool. For the benefit of any other witness who cares to come 
and make an outburst, statements that he made just then will go in 

36-414—64 9 



1628 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

the record for possible contempt hearing and action by Congress. If 
you have another witness now, Counsel, call him. 

Mr. HiTz. It appears that we may not have. 

Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTZ. I would like to state to the chairman and to the committee 
that it is the information of the staff of the committee that the last 
witness, Tobias Schwartz, is connected in a research capacity at Ros- 
well Park Memorial Institute of Buffalo and that that organization, 
which pays him some of his educational requirements and possibly 
other payments as well, is reimbursed for some or all of those pay- 
ments made to him from the National Institutes of Health, a Federal 
Government agency in Bethesda, Maryland. 

Mr. Pool. Let the record so show those facts. Do you have any 
further witnesses tonight? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman 

[Disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Pool. Is the marshal here ? 

[Disorder in the audience.] 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Hitz. 

Mr. Hitz. A number of attorneys here representing witnesses pre- 
vailed upon me, because of the exigency of their clients at home and 
elsewhere, to postpone their waiting and their appearance as witnesses 
until 9 :15 tomorrow or as soon thereafter as the committee would meet 
tomorow. I am afraid I went too far in my indulgence in the con- 
venience of the witnesses and the attorneys, and we have no further 
witnesses that we can call at this time. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, do you have any witnesses that you can call 
at 8 :30 in the morning ? 

Mr. Hitz. I can't say for sure. It will be dependent upon whether 
or not I can locate the attorneys and change the time, which they 
agreed upon, from 9 :15 until 8 :30. The chances would be quite remote. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we recess until 9 
o'clock tomorrow morning. 

Mr. Hitz. It may be that some of the witnesses will be anxious to 
appear and will arrive early. 

Mr. Pool. I have no objection to this committee reconvening at 
9 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

("VVliereupon, at :05 p.m. Wednesday, April 29, 1964, the su1)Com- 
mittee recessed to reconvene at 9 a.m., Thursday, April 30, 1964.) 



I 



C03IMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 



THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 1964 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Buffalo.N.Y. 
public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 10:20 a.m. in Room 704 of the U.S. 
Courthouse Buikliui^, Buffalo, N.Y., Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman 
of the subcommittee) presiding-. 

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of 
Louisiana; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; Richard H. Ichord, of Missouri; 
August E. Johansen, of Michigan; and John M. A^hbrook, of Ohio.) 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Ichord, Jo- 
hansen, and Ashbrook. 

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William 
Hitz and Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; and Louis J. Russell and Philip R. 
Manuel, investigators. 

Mr. Pool. The subcommittee will come to order. 

I first w^ant to say that we will not tolerate any disturbances in this 
hearing room while this hearing is going on. I have directed the 
marshal to eject anyone who does so. 

I w^ant to make this statement : Yesterday, Witness Berecz identi- 
fied as a person known to him as a Communist Party member a ma,n 
named Russell De Pasquale, previously employed at the Bethlehem 
Steel Co._ ; 

There is now a Russell DiPasquale, age 29, resident at 153 Woodside, 
Buffalo, employed at the Bethlehem Steel Co. The committee 
wishes to make it clear that this man is not the person identified by 
INIr. Berecz yesterday. 

Counsel, call the next witness. 

Mr. Hitz. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Gertrude Alexander, 
please. 

Mrs. Alexander, would you be seated so that I may make an an- 
nouncement prior to your objecting. 

The chairman has asked me to state that the reason for our coming 
into the courtroom to resume this hearing this morning at this hour 
is that the committee has been conducting other business, some of it 
in executive session, and we have been on committee business this 
morning and regret the delay. 

1629 



1630 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

TESTIMONY OF GERTEUDE ALEXANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, STANLEY FAULKNER 

Mr. HiTZ. Mrs. Alexander, will you give your full name? 

Mrs. Alexander. My name is Gertrude Alexander, and I would like 
to make a statement. 

Mr. HiTz. I would like to caution you, Mrs. Alexander, that the 
procedures of this committee permit a witness summoned or other- 
wise appearing to make a brief and relevant objection to the pro- 
ceedings or to the jurisdiction of the committee prior to being sw^orn. 
One necessary condition of such a right of objection is that objections 
should not only be brief, but that they be temperately given. I am 
not suggesting anything with reference to what you may say, but it 
is clear that that must be stated to you and to all the other witnesses 
at this hearing. With that in mind, you make the statement ; and if 
there is a violation of this rule, it is going to be considered as a possible 
contempt of this committee. 

Mrs. Alexander. I want to make a statement questioning the legal 
practices of this committee and the result, my rights before this com- 
mittee are ignored. The guarantees as provided by the hard-fought- 
for first amendment to freedom of speech, assembly, the right of peti- 
tioning of the Government for redress of grievances, this is ignored. 

Further, I am tried publicly without trial by ignoring rights as pro- 
vided by the fourth amendment to a speedy and public trial by an 
impartial jury and witnesses in my favor and to have compulsory 
process for obtaining witnesses in my favor, and the fourth amendment 
is not permitted because not one statement has been made, despite 
constant questioning of this, that my counsel and I have privacy to 
consult with each other, nor that my counsel may cross-examine the 
witnesses against me, nor that I may do so. 

This committee sits in judgment of me illegally, because the 14th 
and 15th amendments are ignored in the election of some of its mem- 
bers who do not even represent the people in their congressional dis- 
tricts. They are elected by a minority of white voters, a few Negro 
voters, and do not represent the majority in their districts. 

Again, I do not think this is a legal hearing because of all these 
violations, and others, of the Bill of Rights and to demand that I 
answer "yes" or "no" to questions put to me and sworn to by a witness 
I cannot question and, also, because it serves no legislative purpose. 
Because of the fact that this committee ignores the Bill of Rights, 
many American people are not informed as to its illegal character. 

Mr. Hjtz. I am sorry, you will have to let me interrupt. You are 
getting in the area in which we are going to have to consider a possible 
change in the course of procedure here. Your rights are that you 
make a statement of legal objection, but to urge them or argue them 
and embellish them is not part of our procedure, and will not be per- 
mitted. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Alexander. I have a few sentences which I would like to 
finish on. 

Mr. HiTz. I suggest that they be conforming with our rules. 

^ Mrs. Alexander. Because of all the things I have stated before, the 
violations of the 1st and 4th and 14th and 16th amendments, because of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITU'JS IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1631 

this fact, the committee ignores the Bill of Rights and many American 
people are not informed as to its illegal character, and it's deserving of 
dissent and free expression and any challenging policies which are not 
good then for the people of this country, except for a small number of 
the people who carry out these policies for themselves and which this 
committee represents. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mrs. Alexander 

Mr. Pool. Is that all the statement you have to make now ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Yes, it is. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, may I make a comment on the statement 
that has just been made by the witness ? 

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead. 

Mr. HiTZ. You stated you have not had the opportunity to call wit- 
nesses on your behalf, in the light of the accusations that you consider 
have been made against you. I would like to state to you that this 
committee, over the signature of its chairman on April 10, 1964, ad- 
dressed to you a letter which stated in substance that there had been 
some testimony taken that might possibly be considered to be de- 
famatory and incriminatory 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. — of a person who bears the name, the same as yours, 
which might well be you. With that in mind, the committee addressed 
a letter stating, in compliance to a House rule, that you will be per- 
mitted to make a statement voluntarily, if you wish to, prior to the 
public testimony of the witness who did testify yesterday concerning 
a person bearing your same name and that, at the same time that you 
would be afforded the opportunity voluntarily to appear, you could 
request the committee to summon on your behalf, witnesses. You have 
not availed yourself of those two opportunities. Mr. Chairman, that 
is the extent of my comment, and I suggest now that she be told to rise 
and be sworn. 

Mr. Pool. Your objections, the witness' objections to appearing, are 
overruled, and if the witness will stand and be sworn 

Mrs. Alexander. Before I am sworn in, I would like to comment on 
this. I would like to know who signed the letter that was sent to me. 

Mr. HiTz. It was under the signature of Edwin E. Willis, chair- 
man of the Committee on Un-American Activities. Are you suggest- 
ing that you did not receive the letter ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I am not suggesting I did not receive the letter, 
but I just went into all the reasons why I think this committee is 
illegally constituted, and the chairman who signed the letters and the 
chairman is one of the members I was discussing. I saw no reason to 
come before him. 

Mr. Pool. Let's rise and be sworn now. Your objections are over- 
ruled. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to g[ive 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I do. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

INIr. HiTZ. Your full name, please ? 

Mr. Fauf-kner. Counsel, the witness asked me that she not be photo- 
graphed any fiirtlier. 



1632 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Pool. The newsmen and television people will please not tele- 
vise the witness, on her request ; that is an order from the Chair. 

Mr, HiTZ. Mr. Chairman, is your ruling of yesterday in effect, that 
there shall be no live or television recordings of this proceeding i 

Mr. Pool. That is correct; at the outset of this session, I told the 
audience that, under the House rules, there will be no television or radio 
of any of the proceedings after the proceedings start. 

Mr. HiTz. Mrs. Alexander, now, would you answer my question as 
to your full name ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Gertrude Alexander, A-l-e-x-a-n-d-e-r, Mrs. 

Mr. HiTZ, What is your maiden name ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I see no purpose in giving you my maiden name. 

Mr. HiTZ. I asked you for identification and other purposes. 

Mrs. Alexander. Is this to identify my family and relate them to 
this hearing? I do not want to answer that question. I take the 
first and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. The first and fifth ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Alexander. In New York. 

Mr. HiTz. When? 

Mrs. Alexander. I take the first and fifth; I see no relationship. 

Mr. HiTz. AVliat is your address here ? 

Mrs. Alexander. 41 Moulton Avenue. 

Mr. HiTz. When did you come here from New York ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I see no relationship to this hearing; I do not 
want to discuss it. I take the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. ITiTz. Have you ever resided in Sharpies, West Virginia? 

Mrs. Alexander. No, I never resided in Sharpies, West Virginia, or 
whatever it's called. 

Mr. HiTz. In or near there or in the State of West Virginia', have 
you ever signed a Communist Party nominating petition? 

Mrs. Alexander. I never resided in that area. 

Mr. HiTz. Tliat is not my question. 

Mrs. Alexander. What is your question ? 

Mr. HiTz. In or near that city or in the State of West Virginia, did 
you ever sign a Commuinst Party nominating petition ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I have not. I have never resided in or near that 
city. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. Counsel. [To witness.] I don't believe 
your answer was responsive to the question. 

Mr. HiTz. I am sorry, it was not. Would you please be responsive 
to the question in your answer. It had to do with a Communist Party 
nominating petition ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Alexander. Will you please explain that question ? Are you 
asking me if I lived in that area and signed a petition or are you ask- 
ing me if I signed a Communist Party petition? 

Mr. HiTZ. I did not say anything about living there. I said, in or 
near the town of Sharpies or in the State or West Virginia, have you 
ever signed a Communist Party nominating petition ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1633 

Mrs. Ajlexandek. I have never signed a Communist Party petition 
in or near Sharpies, West Virginia. 

Mr. HiTz. Anywhere else? 

Mrs. Alexander. What is the question you were asking ? 

Mr. HiTZ. In the entire country, have you signed a nominating peti- 
tion of tlie Communist Party 'i 

Mrs. Alexander. I see no reason for this question, no purpose for 
this hearing. I take the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Well, Mr. Chairman, let the record show that the in- 
vocation of the fifth amendment is recognized reason for permitting the 
declination and that the question of relevancy is not accepted as a basis. 
The witness has linked the two, and I think the record should be very 
clear that the committee accepts the invocation of the fifth amendment 
only. 

Mr. Pool. I agree, and it will so show. 

Mr. Hrrz. Mrs. Alexander, I would think that it would speed the 
course of this proceding, which does eventually have to terminate 
and may well terminate in the mid or latter part of this afternoon, 
if you feel that your rights are protected, if when you decide not to 
answer the question of mine, you state the reasons in a few words or 
record by reference your other objections previously made. We are en- 
deavoring to provide, as best we can, and although it may not apply 
to you, I would like to suggest that the witnesses who have been sum- 
moned here are ones the committee is desirous of hearing, and if we 
do not have an opportunity to hear you for the rest of this session or 
any of the other witnesses, it may well be necessary to call them to 
Washington. 

Now, would you please be as brief as you feel your rights will permit. 
Give us an outline of your formal education, please ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I see no purpose of giving that. I refuse to answer 
for all the reasons that I formerly gave. 

Mr. HiTz. Would you give your employment record, Mrs. Alexan- 
der, and, unless you give it, would you please give me an opportunity 
to make a suggestion to you about the form of your objection. Please 
tell me, are you going to answer the question responsively, or are you 
going to object to the question ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. My pending and last question is. Are you going to answer 
the previous question responsively, or are you going to announce an 
objection ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I am going to refuse to answer all of your ques- 
tions, based on all of the things I have said before and all of the 
amendments that I am taking. 

Mr. HiTZ. And does what you have just said apply to my last ques- 
tion with respect to employment ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Yes, it does. 

Mr. HiTz. And may I suggest again that unless you have a new ob- 
jection to make that you attempt to facilitate our situation here by 
saying, "I object to answering the question for the reasons previously 
stated." And I am going to suggest to you that if you do not resort 
to your rights in that fashion, it will be necessary to excuse you and 
to call you later, and later may well be in Washington, D.C. We do 



1634 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

not intend to hamper any of your rights, but we think the procedure 
can be facilitated. 

My next question is 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTZ. Now Mrs. Alexander, I am not certain whether or not we 
have got into the record that you did not care to answer and pose an 
objection to the question as to your employment. Do you object to 
answering the question, and is the objection the same objection made 
previously in this hearing ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons I previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you. Were you present yesterday in this room 
during the proceedings ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Yes, I was. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you hear Mr. Berecz testify ? 

Mrs. Alexander. Who is he ? 

Mr. HiTz. The first witness. 

Mrs. Alexander. I heard the witness testify. 

Mr. HiTz. He has identified you in his testimony as a member of the 
Communist Party with him. Do you know Mr. Berecz ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all the reasons that I previ- 
ously gave. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you present at a Communist Party meeting with 
Mr. Berecz in 1961 when Mortimer Scheer was expelled from the party 
at the direction of two national leaders of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons that I 
have stated previously. 

Mr. HiTz. Now, we have facilitated this proceeding a little bit. I 
would like to suggest to you and your attorney that henceforth you 
might consider the possibility of saying, "I refuse to answer for the 
same reasons." You do not have to take that procedure. If you don't, 
I am suggesting to the chairman that we excuse you temporarily. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTz. The next question, Mrs. Alexander : Were you invited to 
leave the party at the same time as the expulsion of Mortimer Scheer 
as of the meeting in October of 1961 ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Did Mortimer Scheer, to your knowledge, then partici- 
pate in the formation of an organization known as Progressive Labor, 
Progressive Labor party, or a name containing Progressive Labor in 
it? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr, HiTZ. I would like to make this observation, Mrs. Alexander, 
that perhaps we could shorten this by saying, "I object to answering 
for the same reasons." 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, I disagree. I think her answer is suf- 
ficient for the record. 

Mr. Hrrz. Thank you. Have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party, Mrs. Alexander? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1635 

Mr. HiTz. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

]\Irs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. Pool. That includes the fifth amendment? 

Mrs. Alexander. That includes the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. Thank you. 

Mr. HiTz. Was the expulsion of Mortimer Scheer, to which there 
has been testimony before in this hearing yesterday, because he and 
others urged the dissolution of the Commimist Party for the j)urpose 
of avoiding the registration provisions of the Internal Security Act 
of 1950, which was then about to be enforced ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you agree with the strategy expressed by Mr, Morti- 
mer Scheer in his dispute with the leaders of the Communist Party 
at that time ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you, Mrs. Alexander, a member of the Progressive 
Labor Movement, group, or party ? 

Mrs. Alexander. I refuse to answer for all of the reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Chairman, may I again ask that there be 
appended to the record a facsimile of the white card ? 

Mr. Pool. You have asked that before, and we have taken it under 
advisement. 

Mr. Faulkner. I am doing so again. 

Mr. Pool. Let the record show that you ask it in this instance. 

Mr. Faulkner. As a violation of Rule XI, paragraph 26. 

Mr. HiTZ. May I call the next witness ? 

Mr. Pool. Call the next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Eichard Alexander. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, will you come here? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. Be seated. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I would like to state to the conmiittee 
that the counsel, Mr. Faulkner, who represented the last witness and 
who will represent Richard Alexander, has shifted positions with the 
witness chair, so that it will facilitate his client, the witness, in hear- 
ing. I understand he has a hearing problem; that is the only reason 
for the shift. 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

TESTIMONY OP EICHARD H. ALEXANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, STANLEY FAULKNER 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you give your full name, Mr. Alexander ? 
Mr. Alexander. I want to make a statement to this committee 
before I am sworn in. Should I do that before? 
Mr. HiTZ. I think we should know who is making the statement ? 
Mr. Alexander. Richard Alexander. 



1636 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. And you are represented by Attorney Faulkner, is that 
correct. 

Mr. Alexander. That is correct. 

Mr. Faulkner. Stanley Faulkner. 

Mr. Pool. I will give you permission to make a statement. I would 
like you to make it brief and concise. 

Mr. Alexander. I have it typed out ; it's quite a brief statement. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you hand me a copy of it please? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiTZ. Do you have another copy? 

Mr. Alexander. There is just one page. It's not even a full page. 
I challenge the legalitv of this committee 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

The witness may go ahead. 

Mr. Alexander. I challenge the legality of this committee on the 
following counts : First, the two leading members of this committee 
are sitting in Congress illegally, as defined by the 14th and 15th 
amendments. They represent only a small group of segregationists, 
having been elected by a total of somewhat over 11,000 votes in con- 
stituencies of over 300,000 eligible persons. Over 100,000 of these 
persons are Negro and denied their legal right to vote. For this 
reason, this committee is illegal and unconstitutional. 

Second, tlie Constitution specifically denies the right of Congress 
to legislate in the field of ideas, to pillory persons for expression of 
ideas is subversive of the bill 

Mr. HiTz. I hate to interrupt you, Mr. Alexander. I have a sug- 
gestion to make to the chairman, and my suggestion, Mr. Chairman, 
is that this is going beyond a statement of legal objections. He is urg- 
ing his point and he is arguing it. The Barneblatt case in the Su- 
preme Court disposed of all of the legal aspects of the opinion that he 
is apparently endeavoring to make. I suggest that he should confine 
his statement to legal objections and not urge to argue or embellish 
them. 

Mr. Pool. You are so ordered to do. 

Mr. Alexander. I am trying my best to limit it to a legal objection. 

Mr. Pool. Limit it to that then, and let's not have any argument. 

Mr. Alexander. The counsel is the one who is being argumentative. 

Mr. Pool. He is right, and the Chair so rules, and state your objec- 
tions and go on. 

Mr. Alexander. That is what I am trying to do. 

Mr. Pool. All right. 

Mr. Alexander. That the expression of ideas is subversive of the 
Bill of Rights and is directly counter to the first amendment. For 
this reason, this committee is illegally constituted and unconstitu- 
tional. 

Third, the fifth amendment of the Constitution is utilized by this 
committee in a manner exactly contrary to the meaning and origin of 
this amendment. The fifth amendment is a reflection of the struggles 
in England between the liated Inquisition, that infamous committee 
before 

Mr. Johansen. Just a minute. The witness is arguing and attempt- 
ing to expound on the point. If the witness wants to invoke the fifth 
amendment in total or in part as a reason, he is at liberty to do so. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1637 

Mr. Alexander. Tliat is not what I am doing. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Just precisely the point I am makinti^. The witness 
is arguing the matter, and I suggest he confine himself simply to a 
statement of his gromid. 

]\Ir. Pool. You are so ordered to do, and don't present arguments on 
your points. State your objections. 

Mr. Alexander. I am stating my legal objections to the sitting of 
this committee, that this committee is illegal. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead and state them. 

Mr. Alexander. And that is exactly what I am doing, if you will 
give me a chance. 

Mr. Pool. We are not going to sit here and listen to an argument. 
You can take the time to state your objections. You have a right to 
do that, and that is it. 

Mr. Alexander. That Inquisition 

Mr. HiTz. Excuse me. May we go off the record, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Pool. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. On the record. 

In view of the fact that you are presenting arguments and not 
stating your objections and in view of the fact that this committee has 
other witnesses there to be heard, you are temporarily excused until 
later in the day, if we can get to you. 

Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Chairman, my client is not raising arguments. 

Mr. Pool. I will excuse the witness at this time. We don't have 
time to get into an argument with his counsel. I have ruled on it, and 
the witness is excused and so is the counsel. 

Mr. Faulkner. This is being done to keep me in Buffalo for an- 
other day because I cannot get a plane to New York mitil tomorrow. 
Mr. Hitz knows that. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Marshal, if we have any disturbance there, you know 
what to do. 

Mr. Hitz. Gloria Massa. 

TESTIMONY OF GLORIA MASSA, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
ROBEET B. FLEMING 

Mr. Hitz. I am asking the witness a question that is necessary to ask. 
Is your name Gloria Massa ? 

Mrs. JVLvssA. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Fleming. Mr. Chairman, I w^ould like to submit for the record 
the request I made in Washington. 

Mr. Pool. Just a moment. Counsel. You have not been identified. 

Mr. Hitz. Mrs. Massa, would you please identify your counsel, if he 
be that? 

Mrs. Massa. Mr. Kobert Fleming. 

Mr. Hitz. Would you please consult with your counsel and ask him 
if you may make this statement to the Chair ? 

Mr. Fleming. It is not a statement. 

Mrs. Massa. It is a request. 

Mr. Fleming. Right. 

When the chairaian opened the hearing yesterday, he referred to a 
request I had sent to Washington, and the request was overruled. It 



1638 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

had to do with asking for cross-examination. I would like this request 
to go on the record, if I may, and I submit it for that purpose. 

Mr. Pool. It will be taken under advisement. 

Mr. Fleming. Mrs. Massa would like to make a statement before 
being sworn, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. If she will be brief and concise, the committee will hear 
her statement. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Fleming. Will you please stop the pictures ? 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, the witness objects to pictures during her 
testimony. I think it is within her rights. 

Mr. Pool. All right. The photographers will not take any pictures 
during her testimony. 

Mrs. Massa. I would like to make a statement in regards to the 
legality of this committee and the tactics that it has employed. I 
would like to state that I am here under duress with an aura of suspi- 
cion thrown around me, me and my family. Although I have been 
accused of no crime, your marshals, with spirited breath, served your 
subpena late at night, creating fear and anxiety to my children. 

Mr. HiTZ. I am afraid I will interrupt you to suggest to you that 
our rules permit a brief statement of relevant legal objections. 

Mrs. JVIassa. I will legally refer to the tactics of this committee and 
I would like to say that your marshals illegally entered my home, and 
I would like that on the record. When they came at another time to 
serve a subpena, if it weren't for my dog barking, I would not have 
known that they were inside my home. I would now like to take legal 
exception to this committee. 

First, this committee is violating the first amendment by imping- 
ing the rights of individuals for free political thought, the right of 
assembly, and free association. This committee conducts hearings and 
obtains evidence, not in regard to crimes, but in regard to these rights 
as guaranteed under the first amendment. Legally, it cannot legis- 
late against these rights. 

Secondly, the committee is violating the fifth amendment when it 
guarantees due process of law, which we are not getting in these 
hearings. 

Thirdly, under the sixth amendment, the committee is denying us 
the right of cross-examining. 

Four, the committee has also violated the 14th amendment because 
many of its members have been elected in areas where over half of the 
citizens are denied the right to vote. 

Also, the sixth amendment is being violated because we are not al- 
lowed the right of cross-examination, and, finally, I object to the 
smears that this committee is making by just calling us here, that we 
are being judged guilty of something by just appearing before this 
committee, and I would like to suggest, as a concerned citizen of our 
country, that Mr. Pool and the other members of this committee 
which are concerned with Americanism, that they go back to Dallas, 
Texas, and investigate what happened in that city that allowed our 
past President to be killed. 

Mr. Pool. I want to warn the witness that we will not have any 
more outbursts and insults to the committee. Now, are you ready to 
be sworn in? Your objections are overruled. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1639 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to ^ive be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. jVIassa. I do. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your maiden name, please, Mrs. Massa ? 

Mrs. Massa. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. HiTZ. When and where were you born ? 

INIrs. Massa. I would like to state at this time that I am not going 
to answer this question or any other qviestions put to me by this com- 
mittee on the following constitutional grounds. 

Mr, HiTZ. I suggest, Mrs. Massa, that you state them and not argue 
or urge them, and if you do not, I am going to suggest to the commit- 
tee tliat it consider postponing your argument until we have your 
objections at a later date. 

Mrs. Massa. I will be glad to state them right now. 

Mr. HiTz. Briefly. 

Mrs. Massa. Under the Bill of Rights, article T : 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or pro- 
hibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the 
pres^; : or of the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the 
Government for a redress of grievances. 

Article No. V : 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, 
unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jui-y, except in cases arising 
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of 
war or public danger ; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be 
twice put in jeopardy of life or limb ; nor shall be compelled in any criminal 
case to be a witness against himself ; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, 
without due process of law ; nor shall private property be taken for public use, 
without just compensation. 

Article No. VI: 

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and 
public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime 
shall have been committed, and which district shall have been previously as- 
certained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; 
to be confronted with the witnesses against him ; to have compulsory process 
for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of Counsel for his 
defense. 

That is my answer to your question. 

]Mr. HiTz. Does that answer botli when and where you were born, 
Mrs, Massa, or just part of it ? 

Mrs, Massa. That answers your question, sir. 

jNIr. JoHANSEN. ]Mr. Chairman, so the record is clear, in the reasons 
that the witness cited, the witness includes the self-incrimination 
clause of the fifth amendment ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. IVIassa. I have read the whole fifth amendment, sir, so it includes 
all ])arts of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat is your present address, Mrs. Massa ? 

]Mrs. ISIassa. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mv. HiTz. Would you furnish the committee with a statement of 
your educational background? 

36-414—9 64 



1640 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y,, AREA 

Mrs. ]\1assa. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Where have you been employed ? 

Mrs. ^LvssA. I refuse to answer as previously stated. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Berecz, the previous witness, has identified you as a 
person laiown to him as a member of the Communist Party; is that 
testimony correct ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the gromids previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you a member of the Commmiist Party ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the gromids as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you not a member of the secretariat of the Commu- 
nist Party in Buli'alo ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Describe the nature of the duties that you perform as a 
member of the secretariat ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on tlie grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know Marty Zelman ? 

Mrs. JMassa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz, Do you know Sy Rudner ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you present at a meeting in the fall of 1961 

Mrs. Massa, I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. — at which time leaders of the Communist Party from 
New York City expelled Mortimer Scheer from the Communist Party 
of Erie County, New York ? The question is now completed. 

Mrs. JMassa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Do you know what brought about the expulsion from the 
Comnmnist Party of Mortimer Scheer ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. The commitee is possessed of information that jMorti- 
mer Scheer and others wanted to dissolve the Communist Party and 
to form a new group which they felt would not be required to register 
under the Internal Security Act of 1950; is that information true, 
Mrs. Massa ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. This committee has information to the effect that Mr. 
Mortimer Scheer has been instrumental in tlie creation of an organiza- 
tion known as Progressive Labor ; do you have any knowledge of such 
an organization? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Or of Mr. Mortimer Scheer's participation in the move- 
ment ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Is there any degree of cooperation between the Commu- 
nist Party of Erie County, or of Buffalo, and the Progressive Labor 
organization on matters affecting Cuba ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on tlie grounds as previously 
R(al(Ml. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1641 

Mr. HiTz. Are you aware, Mrs. Massa, of any activities of the Pro- 
gressive Labor Movement or organization in matters affecting Cuba or 
travel to Cuba by people from this country ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. PIiTZ, Were you a member of the nationality group of the Com- 
munist Party in the Buffalo area ? 

Mrs. Massa. I refuse to ansvv'er on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Pool. Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Max Berman. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. Gibson. My client requests no more photographs. 

Mr. Pool. Photographers, please, no more pictures. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX BEHMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, WILL 

GIBSON 

Mr. KiTZ. Mr. Witness, are you Max Berman ? 

Mr. Beeman. I am. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you identify your counsel, please ? 

]Mr. Berman. Attorney Will Gibson. 

Mr. HiTz. The address of your counsel ? 

Mr. Gibson. 319 Main Street. 

Mr. HiTz. And Mr. Berman, will you please rise and be sw^orn ? 

Mr. Berman. I would like to make a brief statement before I do that. 

Mr. HiTz. You have permission to make a brief statement and state 
your objections and not argument. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Berman. I object to this infamous committee as illegally con- 
stituted. Some of the members of this committee do not represent the 
people m their home districts where Negroes and poor whites are not 
offered the opportunity to vote. They do not grant the subpenaed that 
have been here today and yesterday, the right to cross-examine wit- 
nesses who have accused them. This committee is a do-nothing com- 
mittee and a waste of the taxpayers' money. I object to the position of 
this committee that this is an open hearing. The people allowed in 
were not on a first-come-first-served basis, 

Mr. Pool. Your objections are overruled. Rise and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Berman. I do. 

Mr. Pool. Will you at this time raise your right hand rather than 
your left. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Berman. I do. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTz. "\yiiat is your address ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer that question on all the grounds of 
Constitution offered to me. 

Mr. HiTz. And wlien and where were you born, sir? 



1642 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mv. Berman. Just a minute. 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Air. HiTZ. This goes to your present address ? 
^ Mr. Berman. Yes, sir. I am taking the safeguard that the Constitu- 
tion and the Bill of Eights offer me under the 1st, 3d, 5th, 6th, 9th, 
and 14th amendments. Therefore, I refuse to answer that question 
and any other question on those constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Hrrz. Were you born 

]Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

Mr. JonANSEN. Does that include the fifth amendment and the 
self-incrimination clause? 

Mr. Berman. It includes the 1st, 3d, 5th, 9th, 14 amendments. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer that question as previously stated, 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you state your educational attainments, please, sir ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as previously 
stated. 

]\Ir. HiTz. Where have you been employed ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as previously 
stated. 

]\Ir. HiTz. Where are you employed now ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Andrew Berecz has testified before tliis committee that 
he was a member of the Communist Party in the Buffalo area for a con- 
siderable period of time. He has testified that you are a person known 
to him as a member of the Communist Party during that time. Mr. 
Berman, is this testimony correct ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Berecz has also testified tliat you were present at a 
Communist meeting, held in the fall of 1961, during which Mortimer 
Scheer was expelled from membership in the Communist Party by two 
leaders of the national Communist Party ; is this testimony as it per- 
tains to you correct ? 

j\Ir. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Further testimony before this committee is that Morti- 
mer Scheer was expelled from the Communist Party, because he urged 
dissolution of the Communist Party in an effort to prevent registration 
under the national — under the Internal Security Act of 1950 ; is that 
testimony correct ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds just previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Within your knowledge, did Mortimer Scheer, after his 
expulsion, promote the organization of a group of Communists known 
as the Progressive Labor Movement or a title similar to that? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you at present a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1643 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever been a member of the Commmiist Party ? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you ever assigned to the Communist Party to in- 
filtrate other organizations, those organizations functioning in the 
Buffalo area? 

Mr. Beeman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. I show you a photograph of a group of pickets who par- 
ticipated in a demonstration before the Hunt Chevrolet Co. on Oc- 
tober 1, 1963. I ask you if your photograph appears in the group 
of pickets? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you invited to participate in this demonstration, or 
did you participate upon your own volition? 

Mr. Berman. I refuse to answer on the grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. IcHORD. There will be no further questions. The witness is 
excused. 

Mr. Counsel, may I inquire as to how many additional witnesses 
you have ? 

Mr. HiTz. We have approximately five more witnesses. 

Mr. IcHORD. Are you ready to proceed with the next witness ? 

Mr. HiTz. I am ready. 

Mr. IcHORD. Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Hrrz. Marty Zelman. 

TESTIMONY OF MIEOSLAW B. ZELMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

WILL GIBSON 

Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Zelman, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Zelman. Yes, I am. 

Mr. IcHORD. Does the witness have a statement ? 

Mr. Gibson. Mr. Chairman, I want to make the same request, that 
photographs be stopped at this point. 

Mr. IcHORD. The photographers will cease taking pictures at the 
witness' request. 

Mr. Zelman. Yes, I do have objections to appearing before this 
committee. 

Mr. IcHORD. Proceed. State your objections. 

Mr. Zelman. My objections are, as follows: One, this committee 
seeks to inquire into the realm of ideas and associations. This Con- 
stitution expressly forbids this. I believe that for that reason alone, 
I should not be called to testify. 

Secondly, this committee has members who are not, in fact, repre- 
sentatives of their districts because a whole section of their constitu- 
ents, the Negro people, are denied their right to vote. They therefore 
sit in Congress and on this committee illegally. On this alone, I also 
believe I should not be called to testify. 

Thirdly, these hearings are not public because card-carrying friends 
of the committee are packed into this small hearing room before the 

36-414—64 10 



1644 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO^ N.Y., AREA 

general public is allowed to get in, and this, also, is sufficient reason. 

Foartlily, unless the committee can assure me that no eavesdropping 
equipment is used, I must conclude that my consultation with my attor- 
ney, Mr. Gibson, is not private and privileged communication and, on 
this last one, I would ask that there be a specific response to this 
statement. 

Mr. IcHORD. I can assure the witness that the Chair has checked 
with the counsel and there is no eavesdropping equipment in the room 
at the instance of the chairman or at the instance of the committee or 
the instance of any staff member of the committee or at any instance 
of the chairman. The Chair is so informed, so I can assure the witness. 
Is the witness ready to be sworn ? 

Mr. Zelman. Just a moment. I would like to confer with my 
counsel. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Pool. The gentleman will rise and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you are about to give before this committee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Zelman. I do. 

Mr. Pool. The witness will be seated. 

Counsel, proceed with your questions. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your full name, please, sir, is what ? 

Mr. Zelman. Miroslaw B. Zelman, M-i-r-o-s-l-a-w, and the last 
name, Z-e-1-m-a-n. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you also known by the first name of "Marty" ? 

Mr. Zelman. Among others. 

Mr. HiTz. What are the others ? 

Mr. Zelman. They are very numerous. I have many nicknames; 
and for that reason, as I spelled out my name, it is somewhat difficult 
sometimes. People call me by a number of different kinds of names. 
I cannot recall many of them. Just a moment, please. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

INIr. HiTz. What nicknames are you known by to a significant group 
of people? By that, I mean, a considerable number, not merely in a 
very narrow group. 

Mr. Zelman. As I recall, also, quite well known as "Mike." 

Mr. HiTz. I now ask you only for those by which you make your- 
self known ; is the question clear? 

Mr. Zelman. Yes ; I think it is. 

Mr. HiTz. Such as an alias? 

Mr. Zelman. The two names that people generally call me by, and 
I accept, are "Mike" and "Marty." 

Mr. HiTz. Have you gone by any other names by which, I mean, 
names that you have accepted? This question is not limited to the 
present time. 

Mr. Zelman. I feel tliat I must decline to answer this question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. What? 

Mr. Zelman. The fifth amendment. 

Mr. PIiTZ. What is your present address, sir ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1645 

Mr. Zelman. At this point, I would like to answer the question in 
this way : I decline to answer any and all further questions for the 
following reasons : One, this committee is inquiring into the realm of 
ideas and associations in violation of the Bill of Rights of the Consti- 
tution ; two, because of my privilege under the fifth amendment not 
to be a witness against myself. The first one is the first amendment, 
and the second is the fifth amendment; and, further, each and every 
one I refuse to answer for the above reasons. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born, sir ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answ^er for the reasons stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. AVliat is your educational background ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the reasons stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Where are you employed ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the reasons stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. Your past employment ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the reasons stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Your present employment ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer any and all questions for the same 
reasons as stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Andrew Berecz has testified that he knew you as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. Is his testimony correct, Mr. Zelman ? 

Mr. Zelman. At this point, I would like to make this response to 
the question. By asking more questions at this point on, you do noth- 
ing but convince me that, in fact, you want to try me in the newspapers 
and convict me in the public mind without due process of law. This 
is in violation of the Bill of Rights of the Constitution and is the third 
reason, in addition to the other two reasons, for refusing to answer 
your questions. 

Mr. Pool. Did you say in addition to the other two reasons ? 

Mr. Zelman. That is right. 

Mr. Pool. Go on. 

Mr. HiTZ. I invite the ruling of the Chair on the additional reasons. 

Mr. Pool. That is on the fifth amendment; he invokes the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you sent to the Buffalo area by the Communist 
Party to act as a colonizer ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer that statement on the three rea- 
sons given previously. 

Mr. Hrrz. Were you a member of the nationality group of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Zelman. Again, I would like to refuse to answer, particularly 
for the third reason stated, but for all reasons, as well . 

Mr. HiTz. My last question should embrace the year 1961, and I 
now reframe the question. In that year, were you a member of the 
nationality group of the Communist Party? Is your answer the 
same ? 

Mr. Zelman. Sir, I told you, and you must know my answer is going 
to be precisely the same. I refuse to answer any and all questions of 
this committee from the point of which I made that statement. 

Mr. Pool. On what grounds? 

Mr. Zelman. On the grounds that I made, sir. I think the record 
clearly said that every and each question that I refuse to answer, it 
is precisely for the three reasons I have given. 



1646 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever collected dues, payments, for other 

Mr. Zelman. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. HiTZ. It's not a question, sir. You have interrupted me. 

Mr, Zelman. Whatever the question is going to be. 

Mr. Pool. Let him ask the question. Proceed. 

Mr. Hnz. Have you ever collected dues, payments, from other per- 
sons known to you as Communist Party members ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the reasons given. 

Mr. HiTZ. Next question: Could you inform the committee how 
dues, payment records, are presently kept by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Zelman. Gentlemen, I will answer the question in this way: 
I have been shocked by the way members of this committee keep dis- 
regarding all the rights under the Bill of Rights except their eager- 
ness to have me use the fifth amendment, which I do, in any case. 

Mr. Pool. Let the witness cease. We will not have any more in- 
sults. Just state your objections. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest that counsel for the witness advise him 
as to proper procedure and behavior before this committee. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Counsel, will you ask the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. In the fall of 1961, were you a member of the secretariat 
of the Communist Party in the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Zelman. By asking more questions, you convince me that, in 
fact, you want to try me in the newspapers, present a case, and convict 
me in the public mind without due process of law. This is in viola- 
tion of the 14th amendment, I believe it is, and is a third reason, in 
addition to the other two, for refusing to answer this question. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. The committee has received information that the expul- 
sion of Mortimer Scheer from the Commimist Party in the fall of 
1961 resulted in Anthony Massa and Sy Rudner being appointed to 
a board or secretariat to handle Buffalo Communist Party affairs. Is 
this information in the hands of the committee correct? 

Mr. Zelman, I decline to answer the question for the reasons given. 

Mr. HiTz. Is it true that, in July of 1962, William L. Patterson, 
chairman of the New York Communist Party, came to Buffalo and 
removed Anthony Massa or Tony Massa from this board because you 
had complained that Massa was a troublemaker ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you presently a member of the Communist Party 
secretariat in Buffalo ? 

Mr. Zelman. You are trying to present a case to the public without 
giving me due process of law; and for that and all the other reasons I 
mentioned, I refuse to answer that and any other question you put 
to me. 

Mr, HiTz, Was not this secretariat appointed by Betty Gannett 
Tormey in a meeting held in your home, of September 1962? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. I show you a photograph taken April 2Y, 1961, at a walk- 
f or-peace parade. Do you recognize yourself as an active demonstrator 
in this parade ? 

Mr. Zelman. No need to give me the pictures since I will, in any case, 
refuse to answer the question for the reasons given. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1647 

Mr. HiTZ. Wlio oi'gciiiized this demonstration and what was its 
specific purpose ? 

Mr. Zelman. Tliis is getting tedious. It is w\asting the time which 
the committee is so concerned about. I reject the question on the 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. I show you a photograph taken on August 6, 19G1, and 
ask you if you can identify yourself as a participant in this demonstra- 
tion. 

JNIr. Zelman. Don't bother giving it to me because the answer is 
going to be the same, for the same reason. 

Mr. HiTZ. Who organized this demonstration and what was its 
purpose ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. HiTz. The committee has information that Edward Wolken- 
stein, Phyllis Scheer, Everett Jones, Beatrice Berman, all previously 
identified in this hearing, also took part in these particular demonstra- 
tions. Did you know them as members of the Communist Party in 
Buffalo? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Pranis is the next witness. 

I understand that Mr. Pranis' attorney, Mr. Lipsitz, is not present 
at the moment. 

Mr. Chairman, I don't think the photographers ought to get on 
top of this witness wdien he isn't even in the chair. 

Mr.PooL. Will the photographers please refrain ? 

We will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. HiTZ. Joe Pranis. 

Mr. Pool. The ruling of the Chair started these hearings yesterday 
with no picturetaking in the room with the testimony being heard, 
aPxd I would hope that the photographers would desist from taking 
pictures wlien the testimony is being taken. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH PRANIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
mCHAPvD LIPSITZ 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Pranis, is your attorney here ? 

Mr. Lipsitz. Yes. Richard Lipsitz, appearing for Mr. Pranis. 
Mr. HiTz. Mr. Chairman, I think the photographers are creeping 
up on this witness. 

Mr. Pool. 1 will caution the photographers again. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Witness, is your name Joseph Pranis ? 

Mr. Pranls. It is. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you identify your lawyer, please ? 

Mr. Pranis. Richard Lipsitz. 

Mr. HiTz. Spell that, please ? 

jSIr. Pranis. L-i-p-s-i-t-z. 

I would like to make a statement before I am sworn. 



1648 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. Proceed with your statement in conformity with the 
rules, please, sir. 

Mr, Pkanis. I join with many of the witnesses in many of the ex- 
pressions of opposition to this committee on the grounds that it is in 
violation of the first amendment of our Constitution, which gives 
Americans freedom of expression, of opinion, of speech, and that 
this committee has no business investigating anyone's opinions — of 
anyone's associations. 

I also join in the expressions that have been made in regard to the 
fact that many members of this conunittee are in Congress illegally 
in violation of the 14-th amendment of our Constitution, that the tactics 
of this committee constitute a trial, in a sense, a trial in which people 
are accused of guilt by association. 

I further oppose this committee because, as a union member, the 
UAW constitution has called for the abolition of this committee, and 
I support my union in that stand. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that the end of your statement, sir ? 

Mr. Pranis. It is. 

Mr. HiTz. Will you stand and be sworn, please ? 

Mr, Pool. Your objections are overruled. Will you stand and be 
sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Pranis, I do. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your address, presently, Mr. Pranis ? 

Mr. Pranis. What is the relevancy of that question. Counselor? 

Mr. HiTz. Identification of you and to determine certain matters 
concerning which this committee has received testimony and infor- 
mation. 

Mr. Pranis. I am sure you already know that ; however, my address 
is 260 Somerville Avenue, Tonawanda. 

Mr. HiTZ, When and where w^ere you born ? 

Mr, Pranis. What is the relevancy of that question ? 

Mr, HiTz. The same relevancy as stated for the last one. 

Mr. Pranis. I fail to follow you. 

Mr. HiTZ. It is in aid of identification of you in the light of testi- 
mony that has been received by this committee comiecting you with 
important activities with the Communist Party in the Erie County 
area. That is a subject matter that has been held continuously to be 
within the subject of proper inquiry of this committee and its juris- 
diction. 

Mr. Pranis. How does the place of my birth relate to this? I still 
don't understand. 

Mr. IIiTz. It is a matter of identification within the framework of 
information and evidence that we have. 

Mr. Pool, Does the witness refuse to answer the question ? 

Mr, HiTZ. He is still probing for the explanation of relevancy and 
pertinency which I have completed, Mr. Chairman, and I feel that 
our record is sufficiently made and that he should be pressed for an 
answer by a demand from the Chair, 

Mr, Pool, I direct you to answer the quest ion. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y,, AREA 1649 

Mr. Pranis. I will answer the question. I still don't understand it, 
but I was bom in Cork, Ireland. 

]SIr. HiTZ. When was it that you were born in Cork, Ireland ? 

Mr. PiLYNis. As you already know, I was born on October 17, 1918. 

Mr. HiTZ. What has been your educational background ? 

Mr. Pranis. I presume you feel this has relevancy ? 

Mr. HiTZ. I do, or I would not ask the question. 

Mr. Pranis. I do not believe you ; therefore, I decline to answer 
this question on the grounds of the 1st amendment, on the grounds of 
the 6th amendment, on the grounds of the 14th amenchnent, and on 
the grounds of the 5th amendment. 

Mr. Pool. The witness refuses to answer on the grounds of the 5th 
amendment. 

Mr. HiTZ. Where are you employed, sir ? 

Mr. Pranis. As you well laiow already, I am employed at General 
Motors, which yesterday announced a new record of profit. 

Mr. HiTZ. What part of General Motors ? 

Mr. Pranis. Tonawanda Forge Plant. 

Mr. HiTZ. Where did you work before that? 

(Witness conferred with counsel. ) 

Mr. HiTZ. Wliere did you work before working at that plant, sir ? 

Mr. Pranis. Is this relevant ? 

Mr. HiTz. It is, or I wouldn't ask the question. 

Mr. Pranis. Will you explain the relevancy? 

Mr. HiTz. It is important to understand the background, the iden- 
tification and places of activity of witnesses who have been identified 
by testimony or by information as being members of the Communist 
Party in this area. 

Mr. Pranis. Since I agree with my union, that this committee should 
be abolished, I do not feel that I can, under conscience, cooperate with 
this committee. I refuse to answer this question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. HiTZ. This committee has received testimony that you have 
been a member of the Communist Party. Is this information correct ; 
is this testimony correct ? 

Mr. Pranis. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. IIiTz. Were you a member of the Commimist Party on January 
15,1960? 

Mr. Pranis. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. I asked you that question because this committee has re- 
ceived information that a Communist Party meeting was held in your 
home on that date, January 15, 1960, which was attended by Helen 
Schwartz, Andrew Berecz, among others. I ask you if you recall let- 
ting your home be used as a meeting place for members of the Tona- 
wanda group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Pranis. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you presently a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Pranis. The people who I work with know what I am, what 
I do, what I believe in. It is no business of this committee, under the 
first amendment, to inquire into my beliefs, my associations ; and I have 
the right — which I invoke — under the fifth amendment, and I refuse to 
answer this question. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 



1650 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. Were you here yesterday in this lieariiig room wlien Mr. 
Berecz testified. 

Mr. Pranis. Unfortunately, I was. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you acquainted with Mr. Berecz, and do you know 
him as a former member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Pranis. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Are you a member of the Progressive Labor Movement, 
Mr. Pranis ? 

Mr. Pranis. I refuse to answer under the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. LipsiTZ. Is this witness excused from the subpena, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. HiTz. I suggest that he be excused from the subpena, and it is 
my understanding, Mr. Chairman, that tliose who have testified and 
have been excused, were excused from their subpena, as well; am I 
correct ? 

Mr. Pool. You are excused. That is right. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. HiTz. Emanuel Fried. 

TESTIMONY OF EMANUEL J. FEIED, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
ROBERT B. FLEMING 

Mr. Fried. Don't be frightened by all my material. I intend to be 
brief, temperate, and instructive, if possible. 

Mr. HiTz. Your name ? 

Mr. Fried. Emanuel J. Fried. 

Mr. Fleming. Would you stop the pictures ? 

Mr. Pool. Cameramen, there was an objection made to picture- 
taking. 

Mr. Fried. I would like to make a very brief one-sentence statement. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. First of all, lias counsel been identified ? 

Mr. Fleming. Robert B. Fleming, 77 West Eagle Street, Buffalo, 
New York. 

Mr. Fried. Without taking any great time of the committee or go- 
ing through all the reasons, I do appear here without waiving my be- 
liefs and declaration that the enabling resolution is unconstitutional 
and, therefore, this committee and this entire hearing is unconstitu- 
tional. 

Mr. HiTz. I invite the ruling of the Chair on his objections to be 
sworn. 

Mr. Pool. Objections overruled. If you will stand now, I will swear 
you. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the v/hole truth, and nothing 
but the trutli, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fried. I do. 

For identification purposes only, my name is Emanuel J. Fried of 
125 Chatham Avenue of Bulfalo, New York, and that is it, gentlemen. 

Mr. PIiTz. When and wliere were you born, Mr. Fried? 

Mr. Fried. This is in response to your question. The last time I 
appeared before this committee, I did not answer any of your questions. 
At that time, I received a one-sentence letter from Albert Einstein. I 
will read you the letter. He said, "I am convinced you did the right 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN TPIE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1651 

thing and fulfilled your duty as a citizen under difficult circumstances." 
1 stand on that, 

[Applause.] 

Mr. Pool. What was the question again ? 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born? 

Mr. Fried. In response to your question, may I briefly and temper- 
ately — and believe it or not, in an honest and instructive attempt — 
suggest something? V/e have all gone through an experience here 
which has raised serious questions, and I say this to you as one man 
to another because I found out when we were on the elevators that 
we are all human, and I was kidding around with some of you, and we 
are all hmnan. It seems that we put on certain cliche approaches in 
here. In order to help regain respect for these proceedings, in general, 
not just this committee, and restore respect to dispel some feelings 
that there is a severe irrationality about such proceedings, I ask that 
this committee call upon the President of the United States, the 
Speaker of the House of Representatives, the Presiding Officer of the 
Senate, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court to name a com- 
mission to inquire into the rationality of this committee and the mem- 
bers of this coimnittee and these proceedings. 

Mr. Pool. Your answer is not responsive to the question. 

Mr. Fried. In response to the question 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Fried. If you insist. My answer, of course, is going to be, I 
will not answer. I object to the question on the basis — I want to say 
one word on them, the first and fifth. The first, I say this not to 
be sharp, but so there is no equivocation about it, it's none of your 
business. 

Mr. Pool. Are you basing your refusal on the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Fried. I am coming to that, the fifth. Now, I am going to be 
brief and I really don't care to waste my time any more than you care 
to waste yours. The fifth amendment, as I have said, because of the 
open position I have taken on this — have taken and will take — that 
you are trying to hang me and that noose is dropping over, and I say, 
the fifth amendment all the way, inclusive of every part of it. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest counsel proceed with the next question, 
and the witness has invoked his adequate protection. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

]\Ir. PIiTZ. What is your educational background, Mr. Fried ? 

Mr. Fried. In response to that question, I offer to debate the ration- 
ality of this committee before the chamber of commerce of this com- 
munity. 

Mr. Pool. State the question again. 

Mr. IIiTz. Mr. Chairman, before the next question, I suggest that 
the Cliair advise the witness, as I have advised witnesses before, with 
regard to the rule of procedure that permits them to make legal 
objections. 

Mr. Fried. May I respond to that, briefly ? 

Mr. ,IoHANSEN. Will the witness suspend? 

Mr. HiTZ. Further, I would request he be advised to not elucidate 
and argue the objections that should be stated by him in a brief and 
temperate way. 



1652 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Pool. The counsel has stated the rule correctly, and I caution the 
witness to abide by it. 

Mr. FKif:D. May I say something ? I believe I am being brief. 

Mr. Pool. Go ahead to the next question, Comisel. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your employment background, sir ? 

Mr. FiiiED. In response to your question, 1 ask that this committee 
waive its constitutional innnunity and stand trial — stand trial for 
crimes against the people. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest the chairman direct the Avitness to suspend 
this line of statement under warning that if he fails to do so, he will 
be removed from the hearing room and that he be directed to answer 
the question in the proper manner. 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth, sir, all the way. 

]\Ir. Pool. You are so directed as stated by a member of the com- 
mittee, Mr. Johansen, and I expect you to answer the questions put 
to you by counsel. 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth all the way. 

Mr. Pool. If you have object ions, state them briefly and to the point, 
and we wall not have any fui-ther demonstrations on your part. 

Mr. Fried. Wiat is the question ? 

Mr. Pool. State the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. What is your employment background ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. lIiTZ. For how long a period were you employed by the United 
Electrical, Eadio and Machine Workers of America or the UE, as it is 
more commonly known ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. AVere yon a meml)er of the Communist Party during that 
period ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. Have you ever resigned membership in the Communist 
Party ? 

I\Ir. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. IIiTz. Jack Davis was a witness before this committee in Al- 
bany, New York, on April 9, 1954. Mr. Davis identified you during his 
testimony as a person he knew to be a member of the Communist Party 
during the period of his own membership in the Communist Party. 
]\Ir. Fried, I ask you whether or not the testimony of Jack Davis as it 
pertained to you is correct ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. IIiTz. Charles B. Eegan testified on October 2, 1957 

Mr. Fried. Excuse me. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Fried. You asked a question ? 

]\Ir. HiTz. I did not think you were kidding, but if you want to con- 
sult with counsel, I will be very happy to give you the time; otherwise, 
I will have to read any question once, and then when you are through, if 
you are conferring, I have got to read it again. We will be happy to 
let you consult at any time. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Fried. The first and fifth. 

Mr. Johansen. What was the answer? 

]Mr. HiTz. The first and li ftli was the answer. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1653 

By that, you meant the objection is l)ased upon tlie first, and fifth 
amendments ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. HiTz. I will now ask the question : Charles B. Kegan testified 
on Octof)er 2, 1957, that he knew you as a member of the Communist 
I^arty in Buffalo, New York, and that he also knew you as a repre- 
sentative of the UE. Is that testimony accurate? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. Joseph A. Chatley testified before this committee in 
Buffalo, New York, on October 3, 1957, that he knew you as a Com- 
munist member and as an org;anizer for the UE. Is his testimony 
accurate ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. Were you acquainted with either Charles B. Eegan, 
Joseph A. Chatley, or Jack Davis while you were employed by the 
UE? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

JNIr. HiTz. Mr. Andrew Berecz — by the way, before I ask you that, 
were you here yesterday in the hearing room and did you hear Wit- 
ness Berecz ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. You refuse to answer on the first and fifth as to whether 
you were in the room and heard a named witness yesterday, sir? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

]VIr. HiTz. You are here under subpena, I am sure, today ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you a voluntary witness ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Pool. Counsel — off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. On the record. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Fried, I will withdraw the last question. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed. 

Mr. ITiTZ. Mr. Berecz has identified Norman Sternbach, Milton 
Rosen, Milton Kaplan, Hy Rosoff, and Mortimer Scheer, as persons 
known to him as colonizers for the Communist Party in the Buffalo 
ai-ea. Did you ever discuss this phase of Communist Party activity 
with any of those persons ? 

IVfr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you ever discuss Communist Party techniques as 
they apply to labor groups with any of these persons; that is, Milton 
Rosen, Milton Kaplan, Hy Rosoff, and Norman Sternbach? 

]\Ir. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. Plave you ever been a candidate for the assembly on the 
American Labor ticket in Erie County, New Yoi-k? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Fried. Is that the end of the question ? First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Berecz has testified that he did not know you as a 
( 'Ommunist. He did testify, hoMever, that he attended meetings of 
a labor group to which he would be iuvited by Sam (^olenuin and 



1654 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y,, AREA 

Norman Ross, who "were organizers for the Communist Party in the 
Buffalo area, and were as such known to him as Communists. Mr. 
Berecz testified that you were present at several of these meetings in 
J 948 and 1949. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1948 
and 1949, Mr. Fried ? 

Mr. Fmed. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you know Norman Ross and Sam Coleman as Com- 
munist Party organizers, Mr. Fried ? 

Mr. Fried. First and fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. I have no f urtlier questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. HiTZ. Tobias Schwartz. 

TESTIMONY OF TOBIAS L. SCHWARTZ, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
IRA OOLLOBIN— Resumed 

Mr. Schwartz. Mr. Chairman, before I am sworn, I would like to 
say two things : In the first place, I would like to make a statement re- 
garding the events of last time, last evening, and the second place, I 
would like to state my legal objections to this committee hearing. 

Mr. Pool. You can state your legal objections; and then the other 
part, I will not entertain. The only thing you are allov>'ed to do is 
state your legal objections. 

Mr. Schwartz. May I ask, will I be allowed — 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Schwartz. Let me say this then : I object — and I will try to 
be brief — I object to the legality of these hearings on the following 
grounds: In the first place, on the grounds of the first amendment, 
which guarantees freedom of speech, press, and so forth, and, there- 
fore, limits the legislative purpose of Congress and, therefore, investi- 
gations in this area are illegal. 

I further object, on the grounds of the first amendment, to the fact 
that the tape recorder, which one of the defendants brought in yester- 
day and which, incidentally, I was also planning to use, was ruled 
out of order, the reason being that in order to make public my testi- 
mony to friends and acquaintances, that is, in a sense to utilize the 
freedom of the press. I had intended to use this tape immediatel}' 
after the hearings, and I am now required to wait the number of months 
until the official record is available. 

Secondly, I would like to protest the legality of these hearings on 
the grounds of the sixth amendment. Under the sixth amendment, I 
am guaranteed the right to confront witnesses to cross-examine them. 
Much has been made of this letter that was sent out to the people; I, 
also, received this letter. Two points on this: In the first place, this 
is not, in spite of what counsel has said, the right of confrontation, as 
it has been interpreted by the court and, in the second ])lace, the very 
fact that this letter was sent out raising the question of bringing my 
own witnesses — which incidentally I regard as an invitation to look 
for stool pigeons — raising this question and raising the question of 
witnesses, it already implied that there is a certain tendency to regard 
this hearing as a courtroom trial and not as a congressional hearing. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1655 

Thirdly and fourthly together, I object on the grounds of the 9th 
and 10th amendments, whicli reserve certain rights to the people of 
this country. Among tliese rights, 1 count the right not to be held up 
in a new form of a public pillory, which category I put this hearing 
in. I have lost track of the numbers, but nonetheless, nextly, I chal- 
lenge the legality of this hearing on the grounds of the 14th amend- 
ment. This point has been made a nmnber of times before; a num- 
ber of the members of this committee are illegally in Congress, includ- 
ing the chairman, and therefore the hearings themselves are, I be- 
lieve, illegal. 

I challenge the right of this committee on the grounds of article III, 
section 1 of our Constitution, which delegates certain authorities to 
the courts and restricts Congress 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Schwartz. And restricts Congress from infringing upon 
those grounds. Therefore, I feel, once again, that this hearing, these 
hearings are illegal, I challenge the legality of the hearings based 
on the rules of this very committee, which calls for an open hearing. 
It has been eminently made clear by Congress on the opening day in 
their original argument, that this is not an open hearing. I further 
challenge the legality on the old sacred tradition, sacred Anglo-Saxon 
and American legal tradition of academic freedom. I am a graduate 
student of the State University of Buffalo, and I feel that my right to 
my beliefs are being infringed upon. This is a sacred right without 
which no university community can function, and hands must be kept 
offofit. 

And, finally, I challenge the legality of this hearing on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment, which is designed to protect people against un- 
just accusations, unjust accusers. These are my legal grounds. 

Mr. Pool. Your objections are overruled. If you will stand, you will 
be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I do. 

Mr. Pool. Counsel, proceed. 

]Mr. HiTz. What is your present, address, Mr. Schwartz ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Just a moment, sir; may I at this point 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I suggest the committee recess for 
10 minutes. 

Mr. Pool. Tlie committee will be in recess for 10 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Pool. The committee wall come to order. Spectators, please 
take your seats. 

Mr. HiTZ. ]Mr. Chairman, counsel for Mr. Schwartz has asked me 
if he would have a chance now, if the witness could make a further 
request of the committee with respect to a statement regarding yes- 
terday's appearance concerning himself. 

Mr. Pool. Make it briefly and concisely, and we will listen to it. 

Mr. Schwartz. Mr. Chairman, I was called as a witness before this 
committee during last night's session at about 9 :30 p.m. Not realizing 
the loudness of my \"oice as carried by the microphone and amplified by 



1656 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

the public address system, I spoke with much greater volume than I 
had intended. My only intention was to make certain legal constitu- 
tional points, as a witness, just as other witnesses had done. I believe 
this incident occurred largely due to the lateness of the hour and the 
stress and tension of a long, trying day, having been in the hearing 
room constantly from 10 a.m. on. Had my testimony been taken earlier 
in the day, I feel certain that I wovdd have been more composed. 
That's it. 

Mr, Pool. Your statement will be made a part of the record. Comi- 
sel, proceed with the questions. 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Schwartz, had you concluded your statement ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I believe so. 

Mr. HiTz. You completed your statement after being given the op- 
portunity, and now you are ready for questioning ? 

Mr. Schwartz. That is right. 

Mr. HiTz. Please give your present address ? 

Mr. Pool. Will counsel identify the attorney ? 

Mr. HiTZ. Counsel for Mr. Schwartz has asked me whether we have 
asked him his name for the record. It is my understanding that be- 
fore he made his statement that he was asked that, but since there may 
be a question, I will ask you now to state your full name for the record. 

Mr. Schwartz. Tobias, T-o-b-i-a-s, Schwartz, S-c-h-w-a-r-t-z. 

Mr. HiTz. i\.re you also known as Ted Schwartz ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes, to my friends. 

Mr. HiTz. What is your address, sir ? 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. I don't believe you answered my ques- 
tion. I wanted to know who the counsel was. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Gollobin, will you identify yourself as comisel for 
this witness ? 

Mr. Gollobin. Ira Gollobin from New York City. 

Mr. HiTZ. And Mr. Schwartz, your address ? 

Mr. Schwartz. 117 Groveland, G-r-o-v-e-l-a-n-d. I am not sure 
whether it is street or avenue, or which is customary here in Buffalo. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I would like to question the relevancy of that 
question ? 

Mr. Pool. State the relevancy of the question, Counsel. 

Mr. Schwartz. That is, it is obvious I was born. 

Mr. Pool. He will state the relevancy. You have asked for it. 

Mr. HiTZ. It is part of the identification of you as a w^itness, and 
because of the information that we have, it will be helpful to us in 
determining the extent and nature of your certain activities concern- 
ing which we have been advised. 

Mr. Schwartz. September 8, 1928. 

Mr. HiTZ. What is your education, sir ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Again, I question the relevancy of this question. 

Mr. Pool. State the relevancy of the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. The same i-elevancy that determines your partial identity 
and determine the possibility of your fitting into the activities con- 
cerning which we have information and tlie significance of that activ- 
ity in relation to you. 

Mr. Schwartz. I have also stated my name and address, and I have 
identified myself in my preliminary statement as a graduate student 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1657 

of the university. I don't see, really, that this has anything to do with 
what I have been asked. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your educational background prior to that, I assure you, 
is relevant to the activities concerning which we have information 
and have been advised. 

Mr. Schwartz. I think it's quite evident. 

Mr. HiTZ. Now, just a minute. 

Mr. Pool. Ask your question, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTZ. Your educational background prior to your present 
course of education as a graduate student ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think it's quite evident that if I am a graduate 
student, I had also an undergraduate degree. 

Mr. HiTz. What was the degree and where was it obtained and 
when ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Is this still relevant? 

Mr. Hitz. We insist that it is relevant. 

Mr. Schwartz. Is this still on the same basis ? 

Mr. Hitz. It is. 

Mr. Schwartz. Would you repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. Hitz. What is your educational background prior to your 
graduate work at the present time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I have an undergraduate degree as a bachelor of 
electrical engineering. 

Mr. Hitz. Give where and when ? 

Mr. Schwartz. How on earth is this relevant ? 

Mr. Hitz. Same reason. 

Mr. Schwartz. I don't quite see it, sir ; would you explain it to me, 
please ? 

Mr. Pool. It is evident that it is relevant, and I will direct you to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. My undergraduate degree was from the City Col- 
lege of New York and now known, I believe — I am not sure of it— the 
College of the City College of New York in New York City. 

Mr. Hitz. And the year of the degi-ee ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Again, I question the relevance of this. 

Mr. Pool. I will direct you to answer the question. It is relevant. 

Mr. Schwartz. If I remember correctly, I think I got my degree — 
this is to the best of my memory — my undergraduate degree in 1949. 

Mr. Hitz. Will you state your present employment a little more 
precisely than what you have indicated? 

Mr. Schwartz. I have stated it quite fully, sir. I am a graduate 
student at the State University of New York at Butfalo, doing my 
graduate work for a degree in the biological sciences, investigating 
some basic problems relating to cancer research and relating to some 
fundamental biological problems which, incidentally, have no political 
relevancy of any sort. 

Mr. Hitz. Does that study embrace your entire time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. That study — what do you mean, my "entire time'" ? 
I also sleep, on occasion. 

Mr. Hitz. All of your working time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes, it embraces all of my working time. 

Mr. Hitz. Do you have any other em]:)loyment at this time? 

Mr. Schwartz. I have no other employment at this time. 



1658 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTz. How long have you been a graduate student at the uni- 
versity ? 

Mr. Schwartz. How on earth is this relevant? You have got my 
educational background. You know what 1 am doing. What are you 
after now, other than a hshing expedition ? 

Mr. Pool. It is very evident that the question is relevant, and I will 
direct you to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Schwartz. Excuse me, would you please repeat the question ? 

Mr. HiTz. What was your employment before you commenced your 
graduate studies at the university ? 

Mr. Schwartz. As I recall it, I don't think that was the question. 
Can we have it read back, please ? 

Mr. Pool (to reporter) . Please read the question. 

Mr. PIiTz. Please answer that question. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. [To reporter.] Read the question. 

(The reporter read the pending question.) 

Mr. HiTz. I withdraw the last question. 

Mr. Pool. Do you insist on his answering the question the reporter 
read? 

Mr. HiTz. No, Mr. Chairman, I made a mistake, 

Mr. Schwartz. Thank you, sir, we all do make mistakes, you know. 

Mr. Pool. Answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. The question was, if I remember correctly, how long 
have I been a graduate student. That is not an easy question. I have 
been a graduate student in this particular program from roughly 1958 
on, that is, to the best of my memory. Prior to that, I was enrolled as 
a part-time graduate student to the University of Buffalo. 

Mr. HiTz. How long were you in that role of part-time graduate 
student ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I really don't remember and don't see its pertin- 
ency. 

Mr. HiTZ. It is pertinent because we have received information to 
(he effect that you were a member of the Communist Party assigned to 
the Professional Club in the Buffalo area. Your connections with 
educational institutions insofar as they may have to do with your 
Communist Party activity, of the sort concerning which we have infor- 
mation, is relevant. 

Mr. Schwartz. I can't quite see how it suddenly becomes un-Ameri- 
can to be a graduate student. 

Mr. Pool. I direct j^ou to answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. What was the question ? 

Mr. Pool. State the question again. Counsel. 

Mr. HiTZ. How long were you engaged in this graduate work prior 
to your present graduate work at the University of Buffalo ? 

^Ir. Schwartz. I have already answered that question. I said I 
don't remember. 

Mr. ITiTZ. When was the last employment that you had prior to 
doing graduate work ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I again question the relevancy of this question. It 
looks more and more like a fishing expedition to me. There is no 
legislative purpose. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1659 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness suspend 
categorizing these questions and respond to the questions. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. I am trying to answer the question to the best of 
my ability. What was the question again ? 

Mr. HiTZ. What is the last employment you had before you did 
graduate work ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Do you mean to tell me that your investigators have 
not yet uncovered that piece of information ? 

Mr. Pool. That is not responsive to the question. I am going to 
direct you to answer the question, for the last time. 

Mr. Schwartz. I worked as a design engineer for a factory in the 
Buffalo area. 

Mr. HiTz. What is the name of the factory, sir ? 

Mr. Schwartz. It was Erie Electric Company. 

Mr. HiTz. Is that the last employment that you have had except your 
occupation over an indefinite period of time as a graduate student ? 

Mr. Schwartz. That is correct. 

Mr. HiTZ. During what time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Just a moment, sir. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Pool. Did you have anything further to add ? 

Mr. HiTz. He hasn't answered the question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pool (to reporter). Will you read the latter question? 

(The reporter read the pending question and answer.) 

Mr. Schwartz. I would like to amend that answer to read : "To the 
best of my recollection, that is correct." 

Mr. HiTz. Now the pending question is, In what period of time 
were you working for the Erie Electric Company ? 

Mr. Schwartz. If I remember correctly, roughly, from somewhere 
in 1954 up until the time that I left my job there to become a full- 
time graduate student. 

Mr. HiTZ. And approximately when was that ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Approximately when was that ? 

Mr. HiTz. When was it, the time you left there to become a full- 
time graduate student ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I already indicated that I became a full-time grad- 
uate student in 1958. It's in the record, sir. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did you work before you worked for Erie Elec- 
tric Company ? 

Mr. Schwartz. It seems to me this question is not pertinent and 
there is just no point to it. 

Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Schw^artz. What is its relevancy ? 

Mr. PIiTz. Same relevancy. 

Mr. Pool. The relevancy is evident. Answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. If I remember correctly, I worked for a company 
somewhere in New York City called the Garod Majestic something 
television company, or some such thing. 

Mr. HiTZ. Will you spell the first name ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I am not sure of the spelling. 

]\Ir. HiTZ. Just do the best you can. 

Mr. Schwartz. I believe it is G-a-r-o-d. 

36-414— >64 11 



1660 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. HiTZ. And you worked there until 1954, did you, sir, when you 
went to Erie Electric ? 

Mr. Schwartz. To the best of my memory, yes. 

Mr. HiTz. How long were you with Garod ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, you are going pretty far back now, and quite 
frankly I don't keep records like you do, but to the best of my mem- 
ory, I think from some time in 1953. 

Mr. HiTz. Did you work there about a year ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Roughly. 

Mr. HiTz. Where did you work before that ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I again challenge the relevancy of this question. 

Mr. Pool. The question is relevant. Answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. Would you please explain why it's relevant ? 

Mr. HiTz. Same relevancy as the other questions having to do with 
employment. You have been advised already that there is information 
in the hands of the committee that you have been a member of the 
Communist Party, that you were assigned at one time here in the 
Buffalo area to a professional group. We are interested in your em- 
ployment i-ecord having to do with that background of your activities, 
according to our information. 

Mr. Pool. The Chair rules that it is relevant and I direct you to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. May I point out that this was not in Buffalo in the 
allegation that you are pointing to, pertaining only to Buffalo. There- 
fore, how on earth is it relevant ? 

Mr. Hitz. It is background from your work in the Communist 
Party, as we have information. 

Mr. Schwartz. In Buffalo ? 

Mr. Pool. I direct you, for the last time, to answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. Before that time, I served in the U.S. Army as a 
soldier. Now, is that un-American ? 

Mr. Hitz. This committee has information that in 1960 you were 
a member of the professional group of the Communist Party ; is that 
right, sir, in the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Schwartz. May I point out that the information that you have 
is of a hearsay nature given by an informer comparable to Judas 
in the Bible, and I will have no truck about informers. I have a 
conscience. 

Mr. Pool. Go to the next question. 

Mr. Schwartz. I would like to direct to counsel that he did not 
indicate the source of the information. I supposedly have a righ-' 
to know. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. Schwartz. I have not refused to answer the question. 

Mr. Pool. All right. I direct you to answer the question for the 
last time. 

Mr. Schwartz. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds 
which I asserted in my opening statement. 

Mr. Pool. Including the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Schwartz. It was there, sir. Look back at the record. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Does the witness say tliat it includes the fiflh 
amendment ? 

Mr. Schwartz. It is in the record, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1661 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Does the witness say that it includes the fifth amend- 
ment, because in the opening statement, the gentleman was not in- 
voking reasons for refusing to answer questions. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes, it could include the fifth amendment, which 
protects us from false accusers and false accusations. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. Schwartz. Hearsay. 

Mr. HiTZ. Before going to the next question, I beg your indulgence. 
I feel that we should advise Mr. Schwartz that the fifth amendment 
self-incrimination clause protects him from more than false accusa- 
tion. If he intends only to resort to the protection against false ac- 
cusation when he invokes the fifth amendment, he is going to run the 
risk of a possible prosecution for an accusation that is not false. You 
have not claimed the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Pool. One more time, Mr. Witness, I will give you a direction to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Schwartz. I am conferring with counsel. Would you excuse 
me? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Schwartz. I will welcome comisel for my welfare. It seems a 
bit unusual ; however, I claim the entire fifth amendment, which the 
Founding Fathers put in precisely to protect us against false accusa- 
tions, and that it is certainly well known. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. That is the last question. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. 

Mr. HiTz. Richard Alexander, please. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD ALEXANDER— Resumed 

Mr. HiTz. Mr. Alexander, you have been asked to come back to the 
witness chair from which you were excused a short time ago. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. Counsel. Will the photographers please 
desist from taking pictures ? 

Mr. HiTz. From which you were excused a short time ago when you 
were in the process of making what you said was an objection to your 
appearance here, being made prior to being sworn. Are you able to 
continue with the objection or whatever it is you had in mind doing 
within the limits of the procedures that have been well described to 
you and the others that this committee permits with regard to prior 
testimony statements ? 

Mr. Alexander. I would like to say that I am not an attorney. I 
ha,ve phrased here as best I can my objections, as I see it, to this com- 
mittee. I phrased them in the terms of the legal terms of the Constitu- 
tion and I should like, therefore, to continue to read the statement that 
I have prepared. 

Mr. Pool. All right. You may read it, with the rules of the com- 
mittee in mind, and make it concise and to the point. State your 
objections. 

Mr. Alexander. We assume, Mr. Chairman, that what was said 
before is already part of the record so we won't have to repeat it. 

Mr. Pool. That is correct. 



1662 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Alexandek. My further objection to the illegality and uncon- 
stitutionality of this committee is as follows : The fifth amendment of 
the Constitution is utilized by this committee in a manner exactly con- 
trary to the meaning and origin of this amendment. The fifth amend- 
ment is a result of the struggles in England against the hated Inquisi- 
tion, the infamous committee before which heretics and witches were 
smnmoned w^ithout the benefit of trial. 

Mr. KiTz. Would you let me interrupt? I would like to consult 
with the staff director. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Pool. Finish your sentence. 

Mr. Alexander. That infamous committee before which heretics 
and witches were summoned without the benefit of trial or the right to 
confront their accusers or to cross-examine witnesses and paid inform- 
ers against them or to be able to summon witnesses on their own be- 
half. It is indeed ironic that the very amendment which was designed 
to protect people of the coimtr}^ against such inquisitions should be 
used by this modern-day inquisition to pillory persons' reputations 
and character. For this reason 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman 



Mr. Alexander. — it is illegal and unconstitutional 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

Mr. Johansen. I suggest this is not only argument, but I suggest 
it is contempt to categorize this committee, and I ask that the witness 
be instructed to desist and to state his legal reasons and proceed with 
the questioning. 

Mr. Pool. You are so instructed. 

Mr. Alexander. For all of these reasons, I wish to recommend to 
the chairman of the committee 

Mr. Pool. We are not taking any recommendations ; we are taking 
objections right now. 

Mr. Alexander. Isn't it a fact 

Mr. Pool, No. You are allow^ed to make your objections right now ; 
not recommendations and not make a speech. Now state your objec- 
tions. 

Mr. Alexander. This committee has given me the privilege of call- 
ing witnesses, and therefore I should like to call on Albert Einstein as 
a witness. 

Mr. Pool. I said to state your objections. We are not taking rec- 
ommendations. 

Mr. Alexander. I am merely trying to, under the letter that has 
been discussed here several times — there have been witnesses, it has 
been proposed that witnesses are allowed. I would just like to call 
for a witness for me, Albert Einstein, who said, "Every intellectual 
who is called before one of these committees should refuse to testify — 
that is, he must be prepared to go to jail and economic ruin." 

Mr. Pool. Your objections are overruled. Stand and you will be 
sworn. 

Mr. Alexander. I ask that this be referred to the Speaker of the 
House and Congress. 

Mr. Pool. You had your statement to stand on. Will you stand and 
be sworn ? Your objections are overruled. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN TPIE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1663 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be- 
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Alexander, I do. 

Mr. Pool. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. HiTz. "VVliat is your present address, sir ? 

Mr. Alexander. I would like to know what the relevancy is. 

Mr. Pool. State the relevancy of the question. Counsel. 

Mr. HiTz. It is part of the identification now in the hands of the 
committee having to do with Communist Party activities of an im- 
portant nature in the Buffalo area. 

Mr. Pool. I rule that it is relevant and direct you to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Alexander. May I ask a question? Is this to identifj^ me in 
the eyes of 

Mr. Pool. I laile that it is relevant and I direct you to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Alexander. 41 ISIoulton Avenue. 

Mr. HiTz. When and where were you bom ? 

Mr. Alexander. I call on my protection under the Constitution 
and all of the amendments that have been stated here, including the 
first, the fifth, the sixth amendments to the Constitution, to decline to 
answer this question. 

]Mr. Pool. Proceed to the next question. Next question. 

Mr. PIiTZ. Your enumeration exchirled the fifth amendment is my 
understanding. Am I correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. I included the fifth. 

Mr. HiTz. Included the fifth. 

Mr. Pool. Next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliat is your educational background ? 

Mr. Alexander. I am a high school graduat^e. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you a graduate of any school Ijeyond high school? 

Mr. Alexander. I attended radar school in the Navy when I volun- 
teered in the war against fascism. I graduated from that school and 
I achieved a grade of first class radar technician. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you go to college ? 

Mr. Alexander. I never gracluated from college. 

Mr. Johansen. Your answer is not responsive. 

Mr. Alexander. I am trying to answer the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Did you attend college? 

Mr. Alexander. I have attended college for individual courses over 
a period of years. 

Mr. HiTz. Wliere? 

Mr. Alexander. I attended, I believe — this is a long time ago — I be- 
lieve I took a course in English literature in City College of New York. 
I took a course, a driving course — I forget the name of the school that 
I attended in taking that course. 

Mr. IIiTZ. Was tliat a college course in driving, sir ? 

Mr. xVlexander. No, it was not a college course. 

INIr. HiTZ. Will you confine yourself to that ? 

Mr. Alexander. I attendod one semester at Hofstra College. I took 
a course in mapmaking. 

Mr. HiTZ. Where is that located ? 



1664 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

Mr. Alexander. Somewhere in Long Island, 

Mr. HiTz. When did you come to Buffalo ? 

Mr. Alexander. I'm not sure. 

Mr. HiTz. Approximately when ? 

Mr. Alexander. Maybe you can furnish me with the information. 
I don't exactly recall when it was that I did come. 

Mr. HiTz. I ask the Chair to direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Pool. He said he didn't recall, so go on with the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Where are you employed, sir ? 

Mr. Alexander. Like many millions of other Americans, I am un- 
employed. I intend — I might add for the record that I intend to apply 
to General Motors, seeing that their rate of profit has been so good. 

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I suggest that we proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Pool. Give him the next question. 

Mr. HiTz. Wlien were you last employed ? 

Mr. Alexander. When? 

Mr. HiTz. Wlien were you last employed, sir ? 

Mr. Alexander. Up until last Friday ? 

Mr. HiTz. At what ? 

Mr. Alexander, As a draftsman. 

Mr. HiTz. Where? 

Mr. Alexander. I don't see what the relevancy of this question is. 

Mr. Pool. State the relevancy of the question. 

Mr. HiTZ. Same relevancy as stated on the other questions. 

Mr. Alexander. What is that? 

Mr. HiTZ. You have been identified as a person engaged in impor- 
tant Communist Party activities in the Erie County group. Your 
activities in and out of that are important and relevant to the purposes 
of this committee. 

Mr. Pool. The question is relevant, and I direct you to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Alexander. Well, I will answer the question. I don't see the 
relevancy. I work at Hobam, Incorporated, in the town of Tonawanda. 

Mr. HiTZ. For how long? 

Mr. Alexander. Less than a year. 

Mr. HiTz. "^^^lere did you work before that ? 

Mr. Alexander. Fedders Corporation. 

Mr. HiTZ. For how long ? 

Mr. Alexander. Nine years. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Andrew Berecz has identified you as a person known 
to him as a member of the Communist Party ; is that statement true 'i 

Mr. Alexander. I stand on the amendments that I previously 
stated. 

Mr. Hrrz. In the fall of 1961, two leaders of the national group 
of the Communist Party came to Buffalo for the purpose of expelling 
Mortimer Scheer, Erie County Communist leader for the party. 
Were you present at that meeting, Mr. Alexander? 

Mr. Alexander. I stand on the previous grounds. 

Mr. HiTz. Were you, at that meeting, also invited to leave the Com- 
munist Party because you agreed with Mortimer Scheer when he 
urged dissolution of the Communist Party in order to avoid registra- 
tion under tlie Internal Security Act of 1 950 ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 1665 

Mr. Alexander. I stand on tlie previous grounds. 

Mr. PIiTZ. Did you, after the meeting, leave the Communist Party? 

Mr, Alexander. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTz. Did INIortimer Sclieer then form a new organization 
known as the Progressive Labor Movement, along with Milton Rosen 
now of New York and formerly of Buffalo? 

Mr. Alexander. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTZ. Are you a member of tlie group, the Progressive Labor 
Movement or group ? 

Mr, Alexander. Same answer. 

Mr. HiTZ. On March 3, 1962, demonstrations were held in protest 
against nuclear testing on the part of the United States. I show you a 
photograph taken on March 3, 1962, in the vicinity of Hengerers De- 
partment Store in Buffalo, and ask you if you recognize yourself in 
the photograph. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. It is a poor picture of me, but I recognize myself. 
I was on the peace walk. There have been several of them in Buffalo, 
and I have been on all of them. 

Mr. HiTz. I show you a throwaway advertising a May 9, 1963, 
Walk For Peace, which lists Prof Philip Morrison and Irwin J. Atkins 
as speakers, and I ask if Miroslaw [Marty] Zelman and Josephine 
Spom, who also left the Communist Party, participated in any con- 
ference held prior to the time tlie demonstration came into being. 

Mr. Alexander. Tliis question, the committee is asking me to be an 
informer as I see it. I have nothing to pay as far as being an informer. 
I will not talk about any persons mentioned by this committee. I 
stand on the fifth amendment and the other amendments to the 
Constitution. 

Mr. HiTZ. Mr. Alexander, are you a member of the Progressive 
Labor Movement? I am not sure that I asked you that question 
before. 

Mr. Faulkner. You did. 

Mr. Alexander. I will answer again. I stand on tlie amendments 
which I previously stated. 

Mr. HiTz. Thank you. No further questions of this witness. 

Mr. Faulkner. ISIr. Chainnan, could we have made a part of the 
record the transcript that was used by the first witness, Mr. Berecz, 
when he testified whicli, from what I observed, lie used and was pre- 
pared on Government paper? 

Mr. Pool. We will take that under advisement. 

Mr. Faulkner. There is one other thing. 

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused. You have finished the testimony. 

I want to express, on behalf of the committee, public thanks and 
appreciation for the very helpful cooperation of the following agen- 
cies in Buffalo : 

1. U.S. Marshal, Alvin Grossman, Western District New York, and 
his entire staff for helping to set up the hearings and facilitate the 
proceedings. 

2. Mr. George Vigarita and his staff of the General Services 
Administration. 

3. Members of the Border Palrol wh(< were sworn as deputy U.S. 
Marshals. 



1666 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N.Y., AREA 

4. And last but certainly not least, thanks for all past and present 
cooperation of the Buffalo Police Department; in particular Commis- 
sioner William H. Schneider, Assistant Chief of Detectives Michael 
A. Amico, and Detective-Sergeant Samuel Giambrone, and also mem- 
bers of the Subversive Squad, Lt. Frank Dougherty, and Lt. George 
Wittman. 

The record of this hearing speaks for itself. There are those who 
say that communism presents no problem — and no danger — to the 
United States. I believe that the facts developed in this hearing and 
the conduct of the witnesses — all of them identified as members of the 
Communist Party — are sufficient to refute this claim. 

Basically, there are only two ways of life in the governmental or 
political sphere — the way of law and the way of the jungle. 

Communism, through the conduct of its adherents in these hearings, 
has been shown to be a throwback, a back-to-the- jungle movement — 
in other words, the blackest form of reaction. I make this point be- 
cause there are some who still entertain the illusion that communism 
is somehow "progressive" or "liberal." 

I wish to comment on a charge that has been made repeatedly dur- 
ing this hearing — the charge that during the last hearings of the 
committee in Buffalo in 1057 the witness table was bugged. 

This charge is absolutely false. The committee has never at any 
time bugged a witness table, here or anywhere else. It has always 
respected the lawyer-client relationship. Absolutely no evidence was 
produced in 1957 — and none lias since been produced- — that the wit- 
ness table was bugged in 1957. No evidence has ever been produced 
that it has bugged a witness table at any time. 

Witness after witness has charged that the committee was violating 
the Constitution in summoning them to appear and violating their 
constitutional rights through its hearing procedures. 

I believe the hearing record should make it clear that the right of 
Congress and of this committee to issue subpenas to compel testimony 
has never been questioned by the courts of this land. 

I further wish the record to sliow that the courts of this land — in- 
cluding the Supreme Court — have over and over again reviewed and 
upheld the constitutionality of the committee and its procedures. 

I would remind those persons who sincerely oppose the existence 
and operations of this committee that the committee represents the 
legal, American way of dealing with subversion through legislation. 
The American people, through their elected representatives, have con- 
sistently and overwhelming indicated their support for this process 
as a valid and needed security measure. 

Mr. Johansen ? 

Mr. Johansen. Mr. Chairman, as the ranking minority member of 
the committee, I want to associate myself vrith both the statements 
made by tlie distinguished chairman, the words of appreciation to the 
officials, who have cooperated under considerable strain and burden and 
inconvenience, and all who have worked together in connection with 
the hearings, including our reporter, stenotypist, and members of the 
committee staff. 

I associate myself also with the concluding statement that was made 
by the chairman. 

Mr. Pool. Is there any other statement ? 

The committee will stand in recess until further called by the Chair. 

(Whereupon, at 1 :20 p.m., Thursday, April 30, 1965, the subcom- 
mittee adjourned subject to the call of the Chair.) 



INDEX 

INDIVIDUALS 
A 

Alexander, Gertrude (Mrs. Richard Alexander) 1519,1520, 

1522, 1523, 1530, 1544, 154S-1550, 1552, 1553, 1610, 1614, 1630-1635 
(testimony) 

Alexander, Richard H 1519, 1520, 1523, 1530, 

1544, 1548-1550, 1552, 1635-1637 (testimony), 1661-1665 (testimony) 

Amlco, Michael A 1666 

Atkins, Irwin J 1665 

B 

Barenblatt, (Lloyd L.) 1583 

Berecz, Andrew J__1517-1525, 1531-1562 (testimony), 1566, 1598, 1605, 1609, 1611, 
1619. 1620, 1625, 1629, 1634, IMO, 1642, 1645, 1649, 1650, 1653, 1664, 1665 

Berman, Beatrice (Bea) (Mrs. Max Berman) 1519, 1520, 

1544, 1546, 1547, 1553, 1554, 1647 

Berman, Max 1520, 1523, 1524, 1530, 1554, 1566, 1641-1643 (testimony) 

Bradley, Martin R., Jr 1530 

C 

Cannon, James P 1528 

Case, W. A 1619 

Chatley, Joseph A 1521, 1525, 1603, 1653 

Clune, Michael 1548 

Coleman, Sam 1518, 1519, 1536, 1543, 1653, 1654 

Copperman, Abe 1519, 1552 

Copperman, Ann (Mrs. Abe Copperman) 1519,1552 

Costa, Leonard 1518, 1534 

D 

Davis, Benjamin . 1520, 1522-1524, 1544-1551, 1554, 1556, 1609, 1626 

Davis, Jack ^ ^- 152.5, 1652 

Dennis, Eugene 1607, 1610 

DePasquale, Russell 1519, 1538, 1539, 1544, 1629 

DiPasquale, Russell 1629 

Dougherty, Frank 1666 

E 

Einstein, Albert 1627, 16-50, 1662 

Eisler, Gerhart 1607, 1610 

F 

Faulkner, Stanley 1.529-1531 (.statement), 1610. 1630, 1635 

Fleming. Robert B 1529, 1530, 1637, 1650 

Flynn, Elizabeth (Gurley) 1520,1548,1549 

Fried, Emanuel J 1523,152.5.1530,1650-16.54 (testimony) 



ii INDEX 

G 

Page 

Gannett, Betty 1522, 1524, 1560, 1612, 1646 

Giambrone, Samuel 1666 

Gibson, Will 1530, 1562, 1566, 1641, 1643 

Gollobin, Ira 1530, 1563, 1614, 1621, 1627, 1654 

Green, Joseph 1519, 1538, 1539, 1544 

Grossman, Alvin 1665 

H 

Hall, Gus 1520, 1548, 1549 

Herron, Frank 1518, 1534 

Hoag, Diantha 1538, 1539 

I 

Ingerman, Sid 1519, 1542 

J 
Jones, Everett (S.) 1520,1548,1647 

K 

Kaplan, Milton 1538, 1539, 1604, 1653 

Katz, Svea (Mrs. John Sonimers ; neeKatz) 1518,1534 

Khrushchev, Nikita Sergeevich 1519, 1528 

L 

Lenin, V. I 1528 

Levine, Louis 1555 

Lipsitz, Richard 1530, 1647 

Lumpkin, Hattie 1520, 1547, 1556 

M 

Massa, Anthony (Tony)__ 1519,1520,1539,1548,1551,1552,1554-1557,1612,1646 

Massa, Gloria (Mrs. Anthony Massa) 1520, 

1523, 1524, 1530, 1544, 1547, 1553, 1554, 1637-1641 (testimony) 

McKenzie, John 1520, 1544 

Moos, Joanne (Mrs. Carl Moos) 1530 

Morrison, Philip 1665 

N 
Noto, Joliunie 1519, 1543, 1544 

P 
Patterson, William L I 1520.1557,1560,1616 

Pranis, Joseph (Joe) 1523,1524,1530,1620,1647-1650 (testimony) 

R 

Regan, Charles B 1.521, 1.525, 1539. 1557, 1561, 1603. 1652, 1653 

Rosen, Milton 1519, 1528, 1538, 1539, 1541, 1542, 1544, 1604, 1626, 1653, 1665 

RosofE, Hyman (Hy) 1538,1539,1604,1653 

Ross, Norman 15!9. 1.543, 1654 

Rudner, Seymour (Sy) 1519, 1520, 1522, 1525, 1530, 1538, 

1539, 1541, 1544, 1554, 1556, 1610-1614 (testimony), 1640, 1646 

S 

Salmin, Alexander 1519, 1539, 1542, 1553 

Scheer, Mortimer 1517, 

1519, 1520, 1522-1525, 1528, 1541, 1542, 1544-1551, 1554-1556, 1560, 
1604, 1610, 1612, 1626, 1634, 1635, 1640, 1642, 1646, 1653, 1664, 
1665. 

Scheer, Phyllis (Mrs. Mortimer Scheer) 1647 

Sclmeider, William H 1666 



INDEX iii 

ruse 

Schwartz, Helen (Mrs. Tobias Schwartz) 1522,1523 

1530, 1548, 1553, 1554, 1614-1621 ( testimony ), 1649 

Schwartz, Tobias L. (Ted) 1522,1523,1525,1530, 

1548, 1553, 1554, 1627-1628 (testimony), 1654-1661 (testimony) 

Scioli, Joseph C 1521, 1530, 1602-1605 (testimony) 

Sommers, Svea Katz (Mrs. John Sommers ; nee Katz). (See Katz Svea.) 

Sporn, Josephine (Mrs. Paul Sporu) JGSI. 16<.)5 

Siwrn, Paul 1519-1521, 1523, 1530, 1543, 1544, 1546, 

1549-1551, 1554-1556, 1561, 1563-1602 (testimony), 1627 

Stalin, Josef 1528 

Sternbach, Norman 1538, 1539, 1604, 1653 

T 

Tormey, Betty Gannett. (See Gannett, Betty.) 

Touralchuk, John 1518, 1536 

Touralchuk, Rose (Mrs. John Touralchuk) 1519,1553 

Trotsky, Lev (Leon) 1528 

V 

Vigarita, George 1665 

W 

Weinstock, Louis 1520, 1544, 1548, 1549, 1551, 1552, 1554, 1560, 1626 

Witt, Nathan 1530, 1602 

Wittman, George 1066 

WoUvenstein, Edward A 1519, 1520, 1522, 1523, 1542, 

1541-1547, 1550, 1554, 1556, 1605-1610 (testimony) , 1626, 1647 
^yolkenstein (Gloria) (Mrs. Edward Wolkenstein) 1608,1609 

Z 

Zelman, Dottie (Mrs. Miroslaw Zelman) 1519, 1520, 1544, 1553, 1554 

Zelman, Maria 1519, 1553 

Zelman, Miroslaw B. (Marty, Mike) 1519, 

,1520, 1523, 1524, 1530. 1542, 1544, 1547, 1548, 1554-1556, 1566, 

1612. 1640, 1643-1647 (testimony), 1065. 

Zvaleko, Vera (Mrs. Walter Zvaleko) 1520,1544 

Zvaleko, Walter J 1519, 1520,1522, 1523, 

1530, 1543-1547, 1554, 1556, 1610, 1621-1627 (testimony) 

ORGANIZATIONS 

A 

American Labor Party 1653 

American Optical Co 1575-1577, 1579, 1582, 1584 

American Radiator & Standard Sanitary Corp.' 1518. 

1536, 1538, 1539, 1561, 1584, 1586, 1587, 1613 
Anaconda America Brass 1603 

B 

Bethlehem Steel Corp., Lackawanna, N.Y 1539, 1609, 1629 

Brooklyn College 1619 

C 

CIO. (See Congress of Industrial Organizations.) 
China, Government of : 

Communist Government : 
Embassies : 

Cuba 1528 



' Sometimes referred to as Amcrlean-Standard. 



iv INDEX 

Paae 

City College of the City of New York (N.Y.C.) 1657, 11503 

Communist Party of the United States of America 1520, 

1528, 1537, 1544, 1545, 1548, 1550 
National Structure: 

National Committee 1520, 1522, 1546, 1555, 1557 

Slates and Territories : 

New York State 1528, 1541, 1544, 1557, 1646 

Erie County 1517-1666 

Buffalo : 

Secretariat— 1520, 1522, 1524, 1556, 1557, 1612, 1640, 1646 
Community Clubs : 

Tonawanda Club— 1519, 1523, 1524, 1540, 1553, 1557 

Industrial Section 1518, 1523, 1536, 1538, 1540, 1557 

Bond Club'— 1518, 1523, 1536, 1538, 1539, 1540, 1557 

Westinghouse Club 1539 

Nationality Club 1519, 1540, 1541 

Professional Club 1523, 1525, 1553, 1554, 1658, 1660 

Eighth Street Book Shop (NYC) 1520,1575,1582 

Electrical Radio & Machine Workers of America, United (UE)__ 1525, 1652, 1653 
Erie Electric Co 1659, 1660 

F 

FBI. {See U.S. Government, Justice Department, Federal Bureau of In- 
vestigation. ) 
Fedders Corp 1664 

G 

Garod Majestic (television company) 1659, 1660 

General Motors Corp : 

Chevrolet Division, Tonawanda, N.Y 1521, 1553, 1587, 1588, 1591 

Forge plant 1649 

H 
Hobam, Inc 1664 

Hofstra College (Hempstead, N.Y.) 1663 

I 

International Workers Order (IWO) 1532, 1536 

New York State 1518 

Buffalo area : 

International Workers Order Center 1518, 1533-1536 

Hungaria» Section 1518, 1533 

L 

Lippes Bakery 1625 

M 
Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers, International Union of 1521, 1603 

N 

National Biscuit Co 1625 

National Institutes of Health. (See U.S. Government, Health, Education, 
and Welfare, Department of.) 

New York State Department of State 1.595 

New York University (N.Y.C) 1520, 1573, 1574 

Niagara Falls Smeltering & Refining Division 1603 

P 

Progressive Labor Movement 1517, 1521-1525, 1528, 1561, 1599, 1610, 

1612, 1613, 1620, 1626, 1627, 1634, 1635, 1640-1642, 1650, 1665 

' Sometimes referred to as Industrial Club. 



INDEX V 

B 

Page 

Roswell Park Memorial Institute (Buffalo) 1525, 1613, 1628 

Health Research, Inc 1522,1613 



Samuel Greenfield Co 1603 

Socialist Workers Party (SWP) 1517,1528 

State University of New York at Buffalo (formerly University of Buf- 
falo, (Buffalo, N.Y.) 1520, 1521, 1525, 1543, 

1569, 1591, 1593, 1597, 1600, 1613, 1655, 1657, 1658 

Department of English 1594 

Steelworkers of America, United, AFL-CIO (USWA) Local 1199 1537,1561 

Subversive Activities Control Board. {See U.S. Government, Subversive 
Activities Control Board.) 

T 
Twin Coach Co 1521, 1539, 1578-1580, 1582-1586 

U 

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Government of 1537 

Embassies : 

Cuba 1528 

United Automobile Workers (UAW) 1524,1648 

U.S. Government : 

Health, Education, and Welfare, Department of : 

National Institutes of Health 1522, 1525, 1628 

Justice Department : 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 1535, 1536, 1558, 1559 

Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB)-__ 1540, 1550, 1559, 1560, 1562 

Supreme Court 1550, 1583 

University of Buffalo. (See State University of New York at Buffalo.) 

W 
Walk For Peace 1665 

Westinghou.se Electric Corp 1538, 1539 

Women Strike for Peace 1519, 1523, 1552 

Women's International League for Peace and Freedom 1519, 1523, 1552 

Workers World Party 1517,1528 

PUBLICATIONS 

Daily Worker 1518, 1533, 1534, 1551 

Courier-Express 1592 



o 



ifiiiBi« 

3 9999 05706 3Uoi 



\